# hand rearing a hatchling



## whytwings (Feb 12, 2011)

Hi

I am trying to assist someone hand rearing a hatchling ....so far she has got it to day 4 . She is concerned that there is some contorting of the neck is happening and that it rolls over as if it was losing it's balance .

Any ideas anyone ?


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## Isacr101 (Jun 5, 2015)

Please take to wildlife center


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Darren is this a pigeon? Odd behaviour, would need to see video tho to have an idea of what is going on. Could be contaminated even from the egg, why is she rearing it, did parents abandon it, if so there could be a good reason and she is artificially keeping alive a bird that would have died from odd cause. If the baby was not begging properly for food, parents wont feed it. Need more info thanks.


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## whytwings (Feb 12, 2011)

Hi C B L

It certainly is a pigeon . Yes apparently it was abandoned by the parent birds ....I did offer to try and find a surrogate pair from my own flock ....but no response regarding that particular offer .

Personally I think she's done well to get it to 4 days ...rearing a hatchling is not easy even by experienced persons ....However it is something she wants to do for whatever reason ..I've tried to assist where I can , but even I am stumped with the contorting of the neck . I am aware of wry neck , but I am unsure if it is related to pigeons as it is in chickens .


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*Check the following link on hand rearing a baby pigeon. There is also a link on diseases. http://www.pigeonrescue.co.uk/caringforababypigeon.htm

The baby may have been abandoned due to disease. Make sure the baby has some traction under its feet to enable it to sit. The contorting of neck may be due to disease. Baby bird formula should be given at this age. *


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## whytwings (Feb 12, 2011)

Hi guys 
Well it's now day 5 and I have a picture to show ...maybe this may help .

I'm wondering if canker could be at play here - what do you think ?????.....Could a small amount be crushed and given with the formula as a last ditch effort ??? ...Baytril maybe too strong for such a youngster ....I need to try and dig out my medication hand book and see if hatchling are able to cope with it


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Darren gonna send this pic to Jerry to see if he has seen such a thing. In the meantime, I think the baytril is a bad idea as it is not good for their growth, which specifically warns against its use in very young birds, BUT if you have amoxicillian product, that would be safe. It also can be a birth defect and because he could not upright himself and beg for food, the parents would have abandoned him. They always know when there is something wrong, the wrong feed response if at all. I will see what Jerry says, as I have never seen nor heard of this before but clearly there is something wrong. Carry on till we get an answer.


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## whytwings (Feb 12, 2011)

She said that the contorting of the neck didn't happen until day 2 .

I have only come across this once before in amongst my own flock ....However when I became aware ...the chicken was well past 8 days . That chicken did die and when I examined it I thought I saw in the throat what resembled a cheesy yellow growth .

Thanks for your help ...I will keep you posted , but I think the outcome for this poor check isn't real good


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## whytwings (Feb 12, 2011)

I got a little more information on how this chick came about ...I thought it might be easiest if I just copied and pasted her reply below



Hey thanks*Darren*when you chat with them again can you please tell them he'd been well and truly abandoned before he'd completed hatching. The egg was stone cold and I thought he was dead and opened the egg, which I would never normally do, only to find him barely alive so I warmed him up and tried to reintroduce him to both parents but they had no interest. Pigeons have high intelligence so I feel they knew he was not right**I will keep going but if he retains the deformity I will have to do what I probably should've done last week


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

This is buddiies reply also copy and pasted.....even if he says too young to treat and the bird would die anyway without treatment, I say TREAT, if the treatment kills it, it was a death sentence anyway without it. So, just try and treat it. I have successfully treated untreatable baby canaries at 4 days old with baytril, and they lived, so why not try anyway. Just give about 1/3 the dose of an adult and give it a go, just put the medicine in with the hand feeding formula. 

Most likely Paratyphoid, too young to treat, in my opinion. The problem
comes from both, or most likely one of them. The entire flock needs treated
with something like Furaltadone, as directed. 2-3 weeks after treating, the
entire flock should be vaccinated against Paratyohoid, as directed. It
requires two shots, 2 weeks apart. 

Jerry


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

What is he being fed? If not enough water in formula, then dehydration can cause that also.


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## whytwings (Feb 12, 2011)

Thank you CBL ....I will pass this information on


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## whytwings (Feb 12, 2011)

Jay3 said:


> What is he being fed? If not enough water in formula, then dehydration can cause that also.


Thanks Jay ....I did try and private message you and ask for your input ....I was unsure whether it worked .


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Sorry, I didn't receive it.


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## pidgechick (Jun 30, 2015)

Hi I am the carer of this squab I registered to make things a bit easier for everyone. I only have 3 pigeons in my coop and have not had them for that long maybe only a few months. These were first-mating parents who abandoned the egg during hatching. It was stone cold and I thought dead until I inspected the egg and by then felt responsible for the hatchling so after a failed attempt to reintroduce it to the parents I took it in and gave it artificial life support with warmth and hand rearing food predominantly Wombaroo granivore rearing mix which is an Australian product. I was also using a powdered probiotic once a day. I began feeding 6 hours after the premature? hatching. At about day 2-3 the chick showed the symptoms of contorting the neck and has been doing this ever since although in every other way the progress has been good - getting stronger and gaining weight and even feeding for itself now rather than me tube feeding the crop. There is plenty of water in the mix and I make up fresh each time and check the temp is in the right range.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Hi. How does he eat? From a syringe?


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

pidgechick said:


> Hi I am the carer of this squab I registered to make things a bit easier for everyone. I only have 3 pigeons in my coop and have not had them for that long maybe only a few months. These were first-mating parents who abandoned the egg during hatching. It was stone cold and I thought dead until I inspected the egg and by then felt responsible for the hatchling so after a failed attempt to reintroduce it to the parents I took it in and gave it artificial life support with warmth and hand rearing food predominantly Wombaroo granivore rearing mix which is an Australian product. I was also using a powdered probiotic once a day. I began feeding 6 hours after the premature? hatching. At about day 2-3 the chick showed the symptoms of contorting the neck and has been doing this ever since although in every other way the progress has been good - getting stronger and gaining weight and even feeding for itself now rather than me tube feeding the crop. There is plenty of water in the mix and I make up fresh each time and check the temp is in the right range.



I wonder if this is a case of brain damage due to oxygen deprivation during hatching. I am a believer of giving it every possible chance as it being so young, it may still further develop enough to overcome IF it was due to being cold and a brain issue. Only time will tell, you could tho risk a 1/3 strength dose of meds in case it is what Jerry says. Any chance we can see a video of it being fed, how it either takes the feed or if you crop feed and or how it rolls onto side and contorts neck. Thanks.


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## pidgechick (Jun 30, 2015)

I was originally tube feeding directly into the crop as he was pretty weak to start out but now that he is stronger (6 days) I have tried to emulate the parents feeding method so he sucks from a small rubber cup-like opening I have set up in the end of a larger syringe. I cradle the bird in my hand and shove his beak in and he sips the liquid up quite freely now but he has to be pretty hungry and have an empty crop. I was also concerned about brain damage due to several things that affected his normality of birth, plus my inexperience with tube feeding etc. In his artificial nest he does not roll over but still twists his neck 180 degrees. If you guys think he has a chance I will continue but if I don't see improvement in his neck contortions I think I need to consider his quality of life. thanks so much I really appreciate the advice. PS I am trying to get hold of some amoxycillin to administer asap.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Good Im glad. Listen you have to be the judge, if it were me, I wouldnt care if it was disabled and would hope in the end it will recover enough to at least feed itself seeds BUT that said, my method of pouring seed into the mouth twice a day is SOOOO easy that even if disabled as an adult, as long as you could feed it twice a day and dip its beak into water, and it was not in any pain and you didnt mind, (alot of ifs) then I say give it a chance, if it seems to be a burden, they you can consider the alternative and or offering to someone who doesnt mind doing it and keeping it as a pet. A lot of bleeding hearts would take the bird if it is sweet but needs help. Im one of them


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I would agree with you pidgechick. Give him a chance and see if he improves. If not, then don't think he would have much quality of life either. Even with someone feeding and watering him and caring, if he can't really get around or do anything because of his situation, then he wouldn't have any quality. Maybe kinder to let him go.


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## pidgechick (Jun 30, 2015)

thanks CBL and Jay3 and I will give him a good chance but as I have many other normal dependants here on our 250 acres that will need my husbandry and supervision I really have no time for constant care for a bird that can't be self sufficient as an adult. fingers crossed he improves there is no doubt he is a fighter and I am prepared to help to get him well if he is able not disabled xx


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

CBL said:


> Good Im glad. Listen you have to be the judge, if it were me, I wouldnt care if it was disabled and would hope in the end it will recover enough to at least feed itself seeds BUT that said, my method of pouring seed into the mouth twice a day is SOOOO easy that even if disabled as an adult, as long as you could feed it twice a day and dip its beak into water, and it was not in any pain and you didnt mind, (alot of ifs) then I say give it a chance, if it seems to be a burden, they you can consider the alternative and or offering to someone who doesnt mind doing it and keeping it as a pet. A lot of bleeding hearts would take the bird if it is sweet but needs help. Im one of them



Agree with CBL, I say he has a right to live... So far she is doing great for the little life...


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## whytwings (Feb 12, 2011)

Nice to see you pidgechick


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## pidgechick (Jun 30, 2015)

thanks and thanks for your help whytwings


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## pidgechick (Jun 30, 2015)

Hi everyone this is a great improvement for day 6 and all I did that was different was to switch his probiotic from the Protexin to some natural yoghurt with his first feed this morning!! His head is sitting much better tonight and he was even quite lively to feed. Happy days!!
Darn I tried to attach the photo but its not working


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Well that's a great news of him showing improvements, don't know if really because of yoghurt, may be. 
I have been suggested earlier for not giving dairy products to pigeons as they aren't able to digest them when I gave 2 drops of yoghurt to my pigeobs after deworming them. Let's see what others have to say this time as I am not that experienced here.


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## pidgechick (Jun 30, 2015)

Hi kiddy that was my understanding too about dairy for pigeons but I fed it anyway and to see such a significant change within less than 24 hours was amazing so ….. not sure what to think but nothing else was altered. I wish I could post the photo to show him sitting up tonight with his head in a more natural position and he was even trying to climb out of his "nest" to have a feed tonight!


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Been following the thread and wanted to say I'm really glad to hear this good news. The last time I raised a hatchling, I had found it when I was only 20; it was under a bridge and almost dead, but I picked it up. Then it moved its head alittle bit and I couldn't leave it there. I had no clue how to help it and noone to ask, so I fed it warmed up weatbix cereal, like we fed baby parrots when I was a kid. I loved it, and somehow it made it. I think I did everything wrong, looking back, but it still lived. Yours has a better much chance.IMO.


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## pidgechick (Jun 30, 2015)

Hopefully you can see the photo now.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

pidgechick said:


> Hi everyone this is a great improvement for day 6 and all I did that was different was to switch his probiotic from the Protexin to some natural yoghurt with his first feed this morning!! His head is sitting much better tonight and he was even quite lively to feed. Happy days!!
> Darn I tried to attach the photo but its not working


Ok so now I see the pic. As someone stated earlier, that dehydration can cause the torsion, in this pic, and u can confirm, the skin looks too red, is that just the pic or lighting or flash or lack of? Babies need like 80% water in their feed for hydration the first 4-6 days and if not enough u can run into problems. So my question is this, was the first probiotic in a pill or powder form? How much yogurt did you give, if it is a natural liquid form and you gave more than a few drops, like a teaspoon or so in hand rearing formula THAT alone could make a huge dif for the fluid/hydration factor alone. Also can you post a pic of his crop AFTER you feed him, it should be a little shiny bulge, nice and round and 'chest" sticking out a bit, again so it has enough hydration, that also can be a factor, if you are not giving enough for him per feeding. 3/4 tank full is good, so it does not back up into his mouth after he relaxes his head. Google some pics of baby pigeons and compare the crop volume/filling and see if you need to give him a bit more per feeding. He looks too empty here.

So what is the skin color, pink or red? If more red then THIN the formula down for a few days, if pink, then follow exact instructions on the formula, keeping in mind if it is not a pigeon formula, you have to adjust accordingly. Read up on how thick or thin it has to be, let me know what the formula say on your bag. 

Regarding milk products for birds, yogurt is the exception, I had read in a budgie article many years ago written by a vet breeder that being a fermented product it changes chemistry and the lactose or bad part of the milk product no longer exists in the fermented form and is actually good for animal and human alike. Similar info in the form of skim milk powder, they say ii is a great form of calcium for the birds. 

Glad you are giving it every chance, I hope it continues to do well.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Well the neck looks really well and an amazing change it is. CBL has written detailed points on hydration, crop filling and the skin color and of course on yoghurt. 
Hope to see him next time with the crop filled as really it is not this time. I highly appreciate the efforts you are doing in his survival. Thanks a lot for the help and care.


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## pidgechick (Jun 30, 2015)

Hi guys the photo was taken tonight in the kitchen with flash, he is not bright red he is pink. The Protexin is a powder and the yoghurt was natural with all the good probiotics included. I mixed a small amount (half a tspn) with the rearing mix (again half a tspn) and added water to thin it down. His feeds are very liquid and I fill his crop until it looks like a small shiny balloon. I am more worried that he isn't getting enough solids in the feeds. He is not consuming all of the mix I make up each time but he is sipping a lot at each feed. He is only at day 6 and because of his circumstances is probably not feeding like a normal healthy day 6 squab. Tonight was a great improvement just to see his neck in the normal position for quite some time, he is twisting it still but nowhere near as bad. I am certain he is not dehydrated


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

That is great, dont worry too much about the solids right now, give him another day or so, then either thicken it up a bit or add some small canary or budgie type seeds to the mix, and I mean only about 2 to 5 % just a pinch or two so u see a few in the crop and that is only if you are feeding him thru the syringe where he sticks his head in it, that way he can swallow the seeds without blocking the syringe if by crop needle. Would love to see a video of him feeding. If memory serves it is about 6-8 days when I used to see some small seeds in the crops when fed by parents. Niger was one of them.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

What a great improvement. That's wonderful! I think he's going to make it.
Just adorable he is!


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

We are wondering how is the baby now? Any update pls?


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## pidgechick (Jun 30, 2015)

Hi Kiddy not a happy ending I got him to day 8 and his neck twisting had returned and was not going to sort itself out and since I couldn't imagine a bird flying with its head on backwards we did what we thought was best for the chick. But the good news is his parents are giving it another try and have two eggs in the nest this time so I am crossing my fingers they get things right at hatch time. Thanks for asking.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

I am sorry for the loss of little baby, I thought may be he is grown up now. Really hope you see new babies growing well this time. Thanks for the update.


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## pidgechick (Jun 30, 2015)

*A happy ending!*

Hi everyone I thought you might be interested in an update on my pigeon pair and their third attempt at breeding this season. In this photo you should just be able to make out 2 chicks under mum at 3 days old. You should see the rear end of one and the beak of the other. Both parents are doing their share of caring for these squabs. This female was a racing pigeon that dropped by our farm one day and despite all my efforts to return her to her owner she chose to stay. So we took her in and got her some friends and now she is raising a family. I guess she decided that was what she wanted in life instead of a sports career lol and chose our farm for her home. Most of us would call this a happy ending I guess xx


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

That is a great story and a better ending. Would love to see pics of the babies when they wean, I l ove looking at the colors.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Thanks for the update. We would love pics when they start to grow.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Thanks for the update Pidgechick. Happy to know they both are doing well. Surprised to know about the hen tho that she preferred your place over her original home, that seems like an exception. Racing homers always like to go back to their original homes. So that's quite surprising. 
Well thanks for her pic, she looks awesome, would like to see babies too really


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Kiddy, the bird probably got lost to begin with, and didn't know how to get home. That is probably why she was there.


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## pidgechick (Jun 30, 2015)

Yes she was a young bird that got lost, quite a way from home. But she was leg banded so I got in touch with the relevant association who contacted the owner who then called me. His instructions were to take her out into the paddock and throw her up in the air and she would head home. He couldn't be bothered to come for a drive (about an hour) to collect her. 
Well I tried what he suggested but she flew to the nearest tree and a few days later she was back around the house so we decided she could have a home here with us.
I will be sure to post photos once her young are more mature. One thing I have noticed is how rapidly they are growing on the parents' diet in comparison to the first abandoned little fellow that I tried to hand raise. Its incredible!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I wouldn't have sent her back to her owner that way anyway. If he didn't care enough to come get a bird that obviously didn't know how to get home, then he doesn't need her. She is better off where she is.


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## pidgechick (Jun 30, 2015)

Thats exactly what we thought too Jay3 so she has a home here with us now and for the first time a successful clutch x


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

pidgechick said:


> Thats exactly what we thought too Jay3 so she has a home here with us now and for the first time a successful clutch x


Do you intend to free fly her? If so, you risk her deciding to fly back home as much as 7 years later!!!!!! I have heard so many different stories. I would keep her as prisoner (what a horrible term, but thats what they call them) anyway, I would keep her in, wouldnt want her back there and her being to old to race is disposed of.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Yeah, then it makes sense that she was young bird who got lost. Agree with Jay and CBL she shouldn't be released now if the owner didn't care for her in past, still she may fly back. I read an interesting story long back when just 3 months old pigeon was lost and returned after 2 years, was quite interesting, here is the link :

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-24...eon-way-home-shed-gone-missing-TWO-YEARS.html


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Agree with CBL and kiddy, birds can return home after a very long time so would not release her.


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## pidgechick (Jun 30, 2015)

I have given her a home in an aviary within my large chook house and most days they would all fly for a short time then return to the house and be locked up at nights. While she is raising young I am not letting them out for a flight but I feel that she has settled here, partnered up and has a family and won't go back to her racing home. So I do plan to continue to let them fly once the chicks are ready. She was young, she got lost and is here with us now but I can't restrict birds that should be flying so I am prepared to take my chances. This area is God's country (that's why she chose it lol) she would be crazy to fly back to the city.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

How long she has been at your place?


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## pidgechick (Jun 30, 2015)

She's been with us since November last year


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## pidgechick (Jun 30, 2015)

Here are the chicks today (15th Aug.) at 6 days old and already more than twice the size of the one I originally tried to hand raise who lived to 8 days. Both doing very well and their eyes are open!


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Very cute little babies!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Beautiful babies!


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

May be she still chooses your place as her new home. Can't say for sure. 
BTW the babies are really very cute 
Thanks for the pic


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