# HELP is this poisonous for pigeons?



## SilverFeral (Dec 15, 2015)

Hello,

I asked vet for safe treatment for birds - for removal of external parasites. And they sold me this:
https://www.pets-menu.co.uk/shop/birds/bird-feather-care/canina-pharma/p-392726.htm

Not suspecting anything I sprayed my pet pigeon once under each wing - as vet instructed me, and then I looked at the spray to see when to repeat. to my horror it says that it is for the environment, not for bird itself!!!

I panicked and got my pigeon in the bathroom an immediately washed under both wings. They I set out to look on internet to see how serious this can be. I also called the vet. he said it is OK and it works based on oil that is non toxic. But why would it say not on birds!???

Content of the spray is coconut oil (some acid from the oil) and margosa oil extract. Is this OK??? Do I have to do anything else?

Thank you!


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## jonrf (Nov 30, 2017)

Hi. Good news! Margosa (Neem leef) oil is non-toxic to birds as long as they don't drink a bunch of it, and coconut oil (omega 3 fatty acid) is perfectly safe. You did the right thing by washing it, but there should not be any problems aside from making the feathers non-waterproof. The oils may be hard to remove fully, but there will be no problem.

If the lice or mites are a serious problem, you can use pet bird mite and lice spray as sold in stores, but cover their head to prevent them from inhaling the mist and try to distract the bird from preening right away. Pyrethins are relatively rather safe and any ingested will be expelled out of their bodies in a week through their urine.

There also is ivermectin, the stuff that works on soft-bodied worms (not tapeworms or hard ascaris roundworms). Ectoparasites, especially blood-sucking mites and lice, will die when exposed to it and it is a good option. It can be added to the drinking water, or even a 1% drop on the base of their neck, or used in water as a bath/dip. But do not overdose. A few treatments spaced apart anywhere from 8 days or a month will be all that will be needed. Also, make sure the cage, bedding, perches etc. are thoroughly clean and treated (you can add a drop of mint oil and lemon oil to the stuff you got to make it much more effective for use on the cage only as it will cause the mites and lice to open their airways and drown in the oils) but let it completely evaporate for a day and air out before returning your bird back into it.

Some mites will hide in nooks and crevices. So if it is mites, be sure to take everything apart or replace bedding before washing down with whatever solution or spray you use. Try not to use bleach though, as birds are highly sensitive to chlorine. 

You can find a few threads here on this forum regarding ivermectin for mite and lice control for pigeons. https://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f6/ivermectin-dosage-48741.html and https://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f6/ivermectin-dosage-48741.html just to mention a few.

So don't panic, stay calm, your pigeon is safe!


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## jonrf (Nov 30, 2017)

Your vet didn't do anything wrong by instructing you to use the oil like that, and it will work for a small number of mites or lice.) I mentioned the other options in case it gets bad and there is a serious number of lice or mites.


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## SilverFeral (Dec 15, 2015)

Jonrf thank you co much!
I just panicked. 
He is fine.

I used Avisan in the past that was based on pyrethins and it was great. My pigeon is a pet (disabled) and I keep him indoors so there is no actual problem, I just do a spray once or twice a year when his friends that visit the balcony have a lot of pigeon fly on them - so I do it as a precaution if one of those fly in the house and finds him. I spray them also if I catch them  some of them were hand fed by me so I usually get few.

I never liked ivermectin because it can be overdosed and our local vet makes the solution himself, so I am a bit paranoid. So I used Avisan, until my country stopped importing. While looking for another safe version they recommended this Bio Insect Shocker as a non-toxic solution.

Again thank you so much.


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## jonrf (Nov 30, 2017)

No worries, SilverFeral  I would have panicked too

Yes, those pigeon flies are a pain, and can also spread hitchhiking lice from other pigeons  Fortunately, I have yet to see those "jockey" flies and do not want to. I have only read about them.

I hope you keep doing what you are doing. It sounds like your pet pigeon has the best owner who truly cares 

Yes, ivermectin overdoses can happen with neurological damage so dosing would have to be precise and controlled. Slender (chewing) wing lice are very easy to treat with pyrethins, but also should work on the flies, however I never had a firsthand experience with the flies. They may need a direct treatment on the spot at the base of the neck where they like to hide on your pigeon. Sounds like you got the pests under control.


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## jonrf (Nov 30, 2017)

I use UltraCare Mite & Lice bird spray muself and works great for pigeon lice. Perhaps it can be ordered and shipped to your country. Amazon sells it https://www.amazon.com/UltraCare-Mite-Lice-Spray-8-Ounce/dp/B00BUFVJO0 It is widely available at major pet supply stores online.. Chewy.com Petco.com and PetSmart.com are other places that sell it. Maybe you will have success in obtaining it from online stores.


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## SilverFeral (Dec 15, 2015)

Dear Jonrf,

I have a dozen ferals visiting my feeder every day so unfortunately I see a lot of pigeon fly. The problem with it is that you can spray a pigeon and remove all adults and nymphs from feathers - I spray under both wings, just above tail (on the back), and on chest, and it clears it all, but it does not kill eggs and larvae that are at places where they roost. So it is impossible to eradicate, it can just help birds a bit when they have a lot of adults on them. Those pigeons are easy to spot, they kick their feet almost constantly as the flies bite them.

I will have to find another good solution against parasites that's for sure. Thank you so much for the link. And thank you for your kind words. I just adore my little feathered candy  I knew pigeons were smart and affectionate but still I was surprised. Now I have the "pigeon bug" forever 

Kind regards


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## jonrf (Nov 30, 2017)

Sounds like they are a major nuisance. Poor birds. Also, the jockey flies can transmit pigeon malaria and other pathogens like PMV (pox) in addition to lice. I have seen the leg twitch reaction rarely and only when they are seriously irritated with something affecting their skin. :/ I can only imagine the pain the flies inflict if the bite is akin to a horsefly bite. 

Maybe there is a pheromone-based fly trap available. I looked just now and could not find one, unfortunately. I know other fly traps are based on the principle, so one could develop one in theory for hippoboscid flies like Pseudolynchia canariensis (the pigeon fly). I wish I had the resources to develop one. We would be rich if we could make it as I am sure many pigeon fanciers and racers would benefit from such a trap. Maybe there are other ways they are controlled in other countries, but aside from confinement and pyrethrins, I do not know off hand. There is an old article about pigeon flies at https://naldc.nal.usda.gov/download/IND43893804/PDF which mentions the use of pyrethrins and the use of kerosene for killing the hard to kill fly pupae.


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## jonrf (Nov 30, 2017)

And you are most welcome, SilverFeral! I am glad to be of any help


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