# 'Rubbery' Beak...how to remedy?



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Got in a fledgling Morning Dove...looks like Canker, and, was caught by a Dog.

Anyway...their Beak is very soft and Rubbery...doing Pill-Time, I noticed their Beak was bending to where it almost did not spring back...eeeeeesh...most unsettling!

I have heard of soft or rubbery Beaks...does anyone recall what the dietary deficiency or other issue is which underlie it? And or, how to remedy?

Youngster was seriously dehydrated...Wings good, Legs good, Eyes and Head good...no tears or wounds I can find, but pretty beat up and lots of Feathers missing...and, after a few hours now of rehydration ( and Dove-size portions of Pills for the Canker and Mauling issues) we are getting some poops...so...thats good...I'm guessing they had eaten alright day before yesterday anyway...so not starved.


Anyway...any thoughts?


Phil
Lv


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Calcium and Vit B and Vit D .. should do the trick.

Terry


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Thanks Terry!


I can add these to his Seeds and Water.

He has no interest in Seeds or eating presently...but, we shall see.


The Beak is so 'Rubbery' it really was unsettling for me, I have never dealt with such a soft Beak before, trying to check his Throat, the Beak was trying to bend into two "C" shapes for Pete's sake ( shudder!) ...thank God they sprang back over a few minutes...so, tube-feeds are out, glad he can coast a while on the chow part of things.

He's in the Bathroom ( with a heating pad option as he pleases ) with five various other young and hurt or sick or both, each in their own Cages, so, he will be able to see others pecking and so on...


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

I think this may be a 'Ground Dove', if possibly a youngish one. This does not appear to be a Morning Dove, Wings have a sort of patterning of color as if Nature took a chisel-end Paintbrush end and softly dabbed the tip every 1/4 inch or so, making many successive light color aspects on the background...with some irregular small Black 'dots' farther back.

Like this -

http://www.bcsbirds.com/index.html?Common ground dove 1.html~mainFrame

( May have to highlight, cut, and paste the whole link )



I did not know we had them here.


Very Morning Dove like on overall demeanor and modes...but a different coloring.

He or she conceeded to do some delicate charming drinking-type 'nuzzlings' to my warm-moist finger tips, allowing their Beak to be guided for several tepid electrolyte sipping sessions with comfort for them.

Quite a few little poops...

Got a quarter tab Enroflaxyn and ditto of Metronidazole down their gullet earlier, and, glad for that...


Haven't weighed them yet, but not much over 100 Grams, if that, if I had to guess.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Phil, Terry is right in her recommendations. The one thing I might a though, is because he has reached the state he, is in to consider buying some Caltrate tablets with Vitamin D, or an equivalent, and cutting a tab into 10 pieces and "pop" a piece every second or third day for the next few weeks to get a more rapid build up for him. The calcium will help as well, in that what calcium he was taking in before was not properly being utilized from a lack of Vit D.

Good luck with him,

Karyn


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Ended up working really late, so getting a late start to-day.

Dove youngster is perching on her Water Bowl, and looking vastly less 'heavy' and dim and pained.

I will make some calls on locating 'Caltrate'...thanks Dobato!


No signs of pecking yet, but, I would think they know how, are old enough to have been doing it on their own a little while prior to this.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

The Thimble-Full pile of tiny Seeds have disappeared from his Cage...( thus, suggesting to me anyway, that he is now eating!! Lol...Yippeee!)


Well...still gotta do to-days Pill-Time, and, I will begin seeing about some Calcium/D/B additions to whatever he will eat and drink.



That Link does not seem to work right...

Anyway, he looks like this, but with a lot more of the same front neck pattern on his Wings than this one has, quite a cutie - 

http://www.symbolicmessengers.com/Wildlife/Antilles/RC_Ground_Dove_C28274.jpg


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

What a cutie, Phil!! 

Sure wish him ALL THE BEST WITH LOVE, HUGS and SCRITCHES!!

Please keep us updated!

Shi


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Thanks Shi!


We did our 'Pill Time' thing, and I was able to get the two different Medicine Tablet fragments into her Beak and for her to swallow, without stressing her 'Rubbery' Beak.


Eeeeesh...this took like 20 minutes of coaxing and me pretending to eat the tablet-part then offering it to her, over and over, and in general, using every trick in the Book, too.


Lol...

Meanwhile, she does that sort of 'Who me?' sheepish Dove-Look-thing, so cute...golly...


Was not able to get out and find any Calcium/D suppliments today, but, I mixed up some goodies to add to her Water, and, tastes pretty good too, so, this will tide us over till I do get some more dedicated Suppliments to use.

I put some fine Oyster shell Grit in with her tiny Seeds, also.


A whopping 65 Grams this little darling is...and they do not feel underweight or sharp at the Keel, either.


It's a little Beak indeed!!!

I guess this breed runs a ways smaller than the Southern Mojave Morning Doves...being I suppose, about half way between a small Morning Dove and a Diamond Dove in size and weight.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Yesterday ( Friday, ) I mixed up a solution fairly heavy with Vitamins and Minerals, and, set up the little Dove-Bunny with a small Bowl of Water heavily laced with it...next to it, a same size Bowl of plain Water.

Plain Water is down not quite 1/4 inch...Vitamin-Mineral Water, down 1/2 an inch.


Seeds keep disappearing, and poops getting made, but, being such a shy little one, I have yet to see her eat or drink...so, she only does it when I am not around.

Pill time went well...managing to get her meds into her Beak and to be assured she has swallowed, without having to open it or stress it at all...but, it takes a while and some finessing and half-hearted 'Nuzzleing' results from my encouragements, to do.


Lol...


I love all the little Chisel-end Paint-Brush like 'line-speckles' on her front Crop area and on down to her darker shoulders and Wings.

Tail has white and black on the end, but, is pretty messed up from her Dog mauling...one Wing is still sore or strained, but, both Wings have full mobility and neither seem to have any swollen parts along the Bones, so...


Her Head is about half the size of the end of my Thumb.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Soooo glad the little cutie seems to be doing well, Phil!!

Will be looking forward to more positive updates!!

Sending *HEALING* Love, Hugs and Scritches 

Shi


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Well....she's been a delightful little poop-factory...thank goodness!

This little Dove is SO small, SO delicate, and SO "WILD", I have really felt like I am all Thumbs dealing with her.

Pill-Times have gone well, I just hold her gently on a Towel, on my lap, and sort of keep the tiny Pill-Portion up against the tip of her Beak, waiting for the rare opportunity of her opening the darned thing a little, or enough, to softly wiggle the Pill-Part far enough in, for her to swallow.

She's been doing Wing excerices, rather Moth-like, fluttering for a few minutes at a time.

One Wing has less range of motion, though both Wings I felt had been bruised or strained in her Dog-mauling event...but, both move well through most of what would be a normal range of motion, during her Wing exercise interludes.


I can not really tell if she is especially afraid of me, or, if she merely finds me mildly annoying and mildly insettling...but either way, I have kept any handling to a minimum.

She lets me change out Seeds and Water with merely looking on and no bother to move over much, so, 'mildly annoying' I think rather than serious anxiety or fear, it probably about it.


Morning Doves, oye! They can sure go into all out panic mode over nothing!


Glad she is not so wacky as that...so far...anyway...

Oh, and she loves the Vitamin-Mineral Water I have been fixing for her, prefering it to the cup of Plain Water I keep next to it as an option.


Beak actually seems a little less 'rubbery' now...but, I have taken great care not to open it or strain it in any way with our Pill Times, and, we are about done with those now anyway I recon...


Phil
Lv


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

From what I've read, Doves do tend to be more flighty than pijies!

So glad to hear she is doing well!

Hopefully, with some time, she will be just fine!

Keep up the great work and we are continuing to send *HEALING* Love, Hugs and gentle Scritches... 

Shi/Mr. Squeaks/Dom/Gimie/WoeBeGone


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Well...I have gotten a couple mild indignant 'Scolding Pecks' when I came into the Cage with my Hand too high, and she/he seems pretty confident with themselves and easy with things far as my meddling or fussing inside their Cage...lets me softly pet their Crop with a finger tip with no objection for me to see how full it is ( seems to always be nicely filled, okay? I just like to make sure..! Lol... )

I was at 'Petsmart' earlier, getting some special Seeds, and they had Diamond Doves, and by golly, they were about the same size as this one.

Done with our meds I guess...so, no more 'Pill Time' now.


'Dove Zilla', my last resident Morning Dove, and, used to be all incoming Dove or 'peeper' Pigeon Greeter and 'Good Will Ambassador'...he self released about a year ago, and, by golly if I did not see him stop by and say "Hello" a while back.


I sure miss him...he'd always fly over and say "Hi" to any new Doves, Pigeons, or anything else, and help put them at ease.

He loved Babys, Pigeon Babys, Dove Babys, and would want to feed them, even when the Pigeon 'Squeakers' were three times his size and weight.

It would have been swell if he was still here to visit with this little Dove and be a pal for them during their stay here.

But, he's a WILD Dove now, and, far as I could tell, has done well with it...so...God Bless 'Dove Zilla', and I am very grateful for the several years he was in here, being his wacky happy Social-Butteryfly, Hand-Nest Dream-Bunny, all round Cuddle-Bug self.

When he came by to say 'Hello' I could not get closer than fifteen feet...he landed, walked toward me, I saw him, realized who it was, started walking toward him...we stopped then, somehow, and just looked at eachother for several minutes...wow...I advanced a little, he took off, went to the roof, watched from there a while, then left.

Oooooooo, once Wild, they are Wild indeed..!

Golly...


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Well...Dove's Legs are feeling better...they are standing differently now, standing tall and perky looking...

Weighed them, a whopping plump 75 Grammes now.

I got a really good out of the blue Wing Slap earlier too...when I was reaching in to get and wash and refill their Water Bowl.


So....fingers crossed...glad those Wings are feeling better also! And, maybe in a week or so, I'll try them out in the free fly free roam Zone, and see what they do.

If they can fly well, then, they can spend a little time in there goofing off, regaining tone, growing back Feathers of Wing and Tail, and evading any Pigeons who might crowd them...lotsa room there, lots of high places a little Dove can be where no one would bother them.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Phil, it sounds like progress is being made, good to hear.

Karyn


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

I have been so nervous with this one...TINY Wild Dove and all...but she or he has been such a good Trooper, never had any 'nervous' issues of their own to be a worry.

They can be so high strung and 'spooky' sometimes...guess we got off to a good start, and it stayed good.


They are standing tall and looking very solid, robust now...quite a different mood and presence than before.

Eeeesh, they had been through such hardship...being sick, and I presume 'downed', caught by that Dog and mauled pretty good.

Such a delicate little Dove, and a Brave Spirit.


So, we are into the 'Wing Slap' phase now...it is HIS or HER Cage afterall...and I better mind my Ps and Qs a little better when I have to reach in for something..!


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## kamz (Jan 23, 2010)

just had to add that i thought your rescue is a really pretty dove..and it sounds like a dove with attitude! best of luck with the beak! kamz


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

She was making littlew whisteling calls today...little 'Whips!' in effect...doing a few of those in a row...or maybe 'Wheat-Wheat-Wheat"...very melodious...


Also, now, if I have to reach into the Cage for anything, she ( I think this is a Hen ) wants to fly off, is anxious, flits around onto my hand or finger, flits off again, jumping around.

Maybe time for a larger Cage, and, into the free fly free roam zone after that, see how those Wings are doing...


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Well...little Dove-Bunny is getting close to be let into the Free Fly Free Rove area, to mingle and cavort with all the other Harpies in there...being then, his or her pre-release phase, for regaining muscle and strength and goofing off however they like, and, in their case, I hope also, for them to grow back missing Feathers, and to molt away old damaged ones, of which they have plenty.


Having been caught and worked over by a Dog, their Tail and both Wing's Feathers are pretty damaged, and should be replaced prior to release, for them to be at their best in flying.


Wing Slaps and Scolding Pecks are what I get when reaching to fuss with Water or Seed Bowls...and, now, some 'pacing' also, which signals to me that they would like to be OUT of that Cage now...so, indeed they shall be...








Plump and Sassy now, and when they stand on my Hand, they feel "HEAVY" now, and looking robust and vital all round...pushing 80 Grammes..! Yipes!

Still every inch a WILD Dove, who I know would be happy to never have to see me or these Hands again!!! No matter their pro-tem tolerance and accomidation Lol...so once into the Free Fly area I doubt I will be allowed to get within 12 feet of them...if THAT close...

As it should be I recon...


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

GREAT NEWS, Phil!! WELL DONE!!

Yep, I hear you about the peck and slaps...good for them...they are reaaady for the real world again...

Love and Hugs
Shi


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Well, litle Dove-Bunny has grown a new LONG lovely Tail finally...the chewed Wings, the worst one which had been cracked I think and pretty messed up if still working originally far as able to move or flap, now works not too bad, and she can fly across a room anyway.


Mostly she has been in her own Cage, since she was so small and not very flight able, and when allowed out one day a week or so, to be in the milieu, I'd find her Back pecked on and missing back Feathers so...back into her Cage...Oye...


Tonight's invite for some free rove time, she took off and flew pretty darned well...far better than ever before.


I think she has grown too, does not seem so awefully tiny now.


Just wanted to share the news...maybe some images soon, too dim up there at the time of night for any decent images.


Anyway, one of the handicapped Pigeons who can fly a little has been spending a lot of time sitting behind her cage, and it kinda looks like they are sweet on eachother...Dove-Bunny hanging out right where the Pigeon is most of the time, right up against the Cage wire side.

We shall see what develops with that.

Actually, might be that it is Mr. Dove, and Miss Pigeon, now that I dwell on it a little...been hearing a sorta like but different from Morning Dove Calls coming from in there lately.



Phil
Lv


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## doveone52 (Aug 3, 2009)

Good update! Thanks Phil!


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

90 Grams now!!! Yipes! And strong as-a-Bull, too.

Was 60 Grams when I got her, if memory serve.


She has grown a new Tail and it is splendid...pretty well all the old ruined Feathres have been replaced now.


I will try and get some images, but, she is not easy to photograph...every inch a wild Dove, even if willing to abide me picking her up and holding her a little now and then.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thanks for the good news update, Phil! I'm glad things have worked out so well for this little dove! Good job!

Terry


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Thanks Terry!



Thanks again for your wisdom and helping me on the 'Rubbery Beak' aspect.

I had never had a Rubbery Beak before, and, let me say it was very surreal and scarey for me seeing it bend when I was trying to do a Throat inspection...so I layed off right then.

So, I had to rely on charm and gentle persuasion, for the little sick and dog Mauled Dove to get her to nibble the Pills or open the Beak herself for me to put them in!


Ohhhhhhhhhhh, well, we got to be pals ay least somewhat with that, spending so much time together, her on my lap on a towel, since those procedures of persuading her to open her Beak volentarily for me to put meds in, DID take so long to do.


But, she needed the meds, and, thankfully, we got the illness things taken care of...and, the Rubbery Beak taken care of.


She is still quite the shy little Dove though...if looking quite Spirited, regardless.



'Ground Doves' seem even more shy and mysterious than Morning Doves, at least to me, but this is the only Ground Dove I have had far as I know.


And I do think she has a Pigeon boyfriend, they are always next to eachother with the Cage wire between.


Or, he has a Pigeon girlfriend...


Or, maybe they are just pals...dunno...



Phil
Lv


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