# Feral Pigeon with Trichomoniasis (Canker)



## ante bozanich (Sep 19, 2006)

A young pigeon has come to my place and has been diagnosed with canker. I have seen a rehabilitator and a vet. 

Presently I have been feeding him KT Exact with the tube and giving him Spartrix medication. While I am waiting for an answer from rehabilitator for some questions, I thought it might be good idea to post this here. My concerns right now are these:

1) Is there a danger of me inserting the feeding tube down his breathing opening and how do I avoid doing this?

2) I have been feeding him three times per day about 12 ml per feeding. Is this too much or too little?

3) Is there a correct amount of water I should be mixing with the crushed Spartrix pill when giving it to him or does it matter?

Thank you.

To end on a positive note... some of you may remember my thread _Baby Feral Pigeon Unable to Stand Up:_ http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=17501 She had quickly regained the ability to walk. I have let her go soon after that. She has found a mate and they both sleep on a tall cabinet on my terrace and come inside every day to eat. 

I thank you all for all of your help. 

Ante


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

ante bozanich said:


> A young pigeon has come to my place and has been diagnosed with canker. I have seen a rehabilitator and a vet.
> 
> Presently I have been feeding him KT Exact with the tube and giving him Spartrix medication. While I am waiting for an answer from rehabilitator for some questions, I thought it might be good idea to post this here. My concerns right now are these:
> 
> ...


Hi Ante,

1) the pigeons' breathing "tube" is located at the base of the tongue. You need to go back further to the actual throat and administer anything down that hole. It's like our throat that way except ours splits off into breathing and eating holes in that same area.

2) 3 feedings per day is reasonable, but the amounts might not be. How old is this pigeon exactly?

3) You don't even need to mix the spartrix with water, the pill can be given whole to the bird but with water it's easier for their crops to handle. So no, it doesn't matter how much water you mix as long as the full dose is given.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Ante! Snap! I have 4 pigeons with canker at the moment, there is an epidemic here.

I have found that when there is canker it is best to feed 15 mls at a time. When I have fed more they regurgitate and risk aspirating. It depends how thick the Kaytee is, but a youngster iould need about 80ml a day to maintain his weight. However, a few days on a smaller amount while you fight the canker won't kill it. 

When you insert the feeding tube do it to the right hand side of the pigeon's beak (your left side as you face it . You should be able to see when the the tube against the side of the crop , then you will know it is in the right place.

The danger in tube feeding is that it can dislodge a canker nodule, particularly if the pigeon striggles, so wrap him well in a towel first.

Cynthia


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## ante bozanich (Sep 19, 2006)

Thanks, Pigeonpal2002. I don't know how old this pigeon is but was told by the rehabilitator that she/he is relatively young.

Cynthia, sorry to hear that some of your pigeons have been effected by this horrible disease.

I was wandering why they have told me to insert the feeding tube down the right side. I thought that this was to avoid getting in contact with the canker nodule which is concentrated on the left side of her jaw and her throat. I guess it is both, to avoid canker and the breathing opening. 

So far everything is going good with the treatment and feeding. The syringe I have been using for feeding is 12 ml so in order to give her 80 ml I would have to increase the frequency to about 7 times per day. However, I am concerned that this might be too stressful for her and will increase the chances of dislodging the canker nodule.

My biggest worry is that the disease might have progressed too far. It has effected her left jaw, left lower beak and her left eye and I am afraid that it might have destroyed them.

Ante


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

ante bozanich said:


> Thanks, Pigeonpal2002. I don't know how old this pigeon is but was told by the rehabilitator that she/he is relatively young.
> 
> Cynthia, sorry to hear that some of your pigeons have been effected by this horrible disease.
> 
> ...




Hi Ante,

Would it be possible for you to post some pictures of your rescue? This would help quite a bit.

The opening to the lungs/air sacs is directly behind the tongue and if you open the beak it is easy to see it there. When feeding or medicating, we are always pushing/placing far to the back of the throat to bypass the opening into the air sacs/lung region.

As far as placing a tube, syringe, etc., I believe you could go front, left or center and it will bring you to the same desired spot--the crop as long as it has entered down the throat. My vet showed me syringing by placing it in the direct center and looking for the syringe in the front of the crop. If I have a lump of canker, I try and avoid it for concerns of dislodging or causing bleeding, etc.

fp


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Hi Ante,
Just wanted you to know--my husband and I really like your blogs. Very powerful. We like your artwork too!
We've never taken care of a pigeon with canker. This one sounds like he's in pretty rough shape. I hope he's getting better. Good luck, and keep us posted.
Sabina


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> Cynthia, sorry to hear that some of your pigeons have been effected by this horrible disease.


These are only "my" pigeons in the sense that I feed the flock and pick up sick ones. If I found one of my "keepers" had canker I would really panic.

One of our friends recently had a squeaker that had her mouth jammed open by canker and also had canker of the navel. THe prognosis appeared to bebad but she made a full recovery although it was a month before she could close her mouth.

But I am wondering whether your pigeon has a combination of pigeon pox and canker.

Cynthia


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## ante bozanich (Sep 19, 2006)

sabina said:


> Hi Ante,
> Just wanted you to know--my husband and I really like your blogs. Very powerful. We like your artwork too!
> We've never taken care of a pigeon with canker. This one sounds like he's in pretty rough shape. I hope he's getting better. Good luck, and keep us posted.
> Sabina


Hi Sabina

Thank you. Is your husband Allan? I've spoken to him on the phone couple of times. He was very kind and helpful. You are lucky . I still have to register at NYC/PRC... just overwhelmed and behind...


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Oops no, I should've said his name. It's Aias. And I don't know what NYC/PRC is, though sounds like I should? Ok I just looked it up (http://nycprc.org/), and it looks like a great resource.
Sabina


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## ante bozanich (Sep 19, 2006)

cyro51 said:


> These are only "my" pigeons in the sense that I feed the flock and pick up sick ones. If I found one of my "keepers" had canker I would really panic.
> 
> One of our friends recently had a squeaker that had her mouth jammed open by canker and also had canker of the navel. THe prognosis appeared to bebad but she made a full recovery although it was a month before she could close her mouth.
> 
> ...


I was wondering about pigeon pox also. I have read about it and apparently they do come together and with similar symptoms. Pigeon pox is viral though. Do you know if there is treatment for it and is it fatal?

Nodule on the outside base of her lower beak, it seems is getting smaller and she is starting to open her eye half a way but there is some new white granular matter on the roof of her mouth. 

She is just standing still inside a small cat cage most of the time. I have given her the last of the 5 Spartix pills this morning. Now, I was told, I have to give her a rest for 2 days and then we are making a new visit to rehabilitators.

I have been feeding her 4 times/12ml of Exact per day and hoping for the best while keeping an eye on the rest of the crowd. Actually, I am not sure what should I be looking for and how to know if any other out there on my terrace are infected.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I was wondering about pigeon pox also. I have read about it and apparently they do come together and with similar symptoms. Pigeon pox is viral though. Do you know if there is treatment for it and is it fatal?


*Thank you for taking such good care of this pigeon.
*

*There are some real tough strains of Pox, but the pigeon can overcome it. There is a homeopathic remedy for it that has been used by Reti that works well, as there really is no medicinal cure. *

Nodule on the outside base of her lower beak, it seems is getting smaller and she is starting to open her eye half a way but there is some new white granular matter on the roof of her mouth. 

*You can apply some tea tree oil on the one on base of beak, or apply some colloidal silver, that will dry it out. *

She is just standing still inside a small cat cage most of the time. I have given her the last of the 5 Spartix pills this morning. Now, I was told, I have to give her a rest for 2 days and then we are making a new visit to rehabilitators.

*You should try a garlic cap daily to get the immune system in gear, and a multi-vitamin mineral, as well as some probiotics.*


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## ante bozanich (Sep 19, 2006)

sabina said:


> Oops no, I should've said his name. It's Aias. And I don't know what NYC/PRC is, though sounds like I should? Ok I just looked it up http://nycprc.org/, and it looks like a great resource.
> Sabina


Sorry, it's my fault. I made a careless assumption. But, all the same , your husband is a great and a kind person in my book, considering he approves of the content on my blogs and also for the reason that you married him.


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## ante bozanich (Sep 19, 2006)

Trees Gray said:


> I was wondering about pigeon pox also. I have read about it and apparently they do come together and with similar symptoms. Pigeon pox is viral though. Do you know if there is treatment for it and is it fatal?
> 
> 
> *Thank you for taking such good care of this pigeon.
> ...


Thank you very much.

It is almost 3 am right now here but in the morning I am going to a store to get some of the staff which you are recommending.

I have just fed her. Her crop seems to be full. I hope I am not putting too much of food down her throat.

I don't want to brings my hopes up too much too soon, but I must say tonight, for the first time since she stumbled through my terrace door 7 days ago half dead, I have that wonderful feeling that she is going to make it and fly free again. I am giving her or him a name January.

Anyway, the reason I think she is going to make it is because:

- Nodule on her beak has shrunk substantially and is not red any more.
- She is starting to open her eye almost fully now.
- I am finding out that the white granular matter in her mouth is actually braking away and there is not lesion underneath which makes me think that this is part of the healing process.
- I sense she is gaining strength.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I am glad that she appears to be on the path to recovery. I know how worrying the first few days can be when you are dealing with canker. So much of the effect is hidden from view.

The external nodules are more likely to be pox than canker. I have only had one pigeon with that combination, he was a little squab that wasn't really old enough to leave the nest but was being fed on the sidewalk by his father. He survived both diseases and is still with me.

Cynthia


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## ante bozanich (Sep 19, 2006)

I am terrified. She was making great recovery... has been flying for the first time. About 10 minutes ago as I was feeding her and giving her medication, her lower beak at the base where it was effected by canker, cracked and is lose and bleeding a little. I am devastated. I don't know what to do.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

When you say loose, what do you mean, exactly? That could be interpretted as the underlying bone broke apart and now the entire beak wobbles and is uncontrollable or it could mean that outer stuff is breaking apart.

Pidgey


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## ante bozanich (Sep 19, 2006)

I am sorry I am upset right now. It does not look good. I think the bone or whatever is supporting the beak has been eaten by canker and as I was opening her beak it got lose on one side. i have to pull myself together and go to Animal General. I have already made an appointment in an hour. I am afraid I am going to lose her. I have just read the thread by Garye I guess my father and Garye are together and it has made me think of the loss of my sister about a year ago and my father and mother few years before that. God, I really wanted this beautiful creature to get well and live. I am blaming myself for not being more careful.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, all's not necessarily lost yet, you know. There was a bird that another rehabber had that had lost the entire forward part of the lower beak. What was left was essentially the two spars from just under the eyes forward to about where you might be talking about. The bird ended up with kind of a leathery, soft lower pouch and had to eat out of a deep seed dish, but it lived.

Reti also had one (a dove) that had a similar problem to the one you're describing and the beak was very wobbly for a long time. If you're willing to give it a shot, it ain't over yet although vets would generally tend to put birds like that down.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I'm trying to find those threads and it's going to take some time because I have to go and run an errand. If Reti reads this, she can find and post a link about "Lucky" (I think) with whom we worked with for weeks. Doves are especially small and delicate next to pigeons, too. 

Pidgey


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## ante bozanich (Sep 19, 2006)

Thanks. I am going to try my best. I will do anything in my power to save her life.


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## ante bozanich (Sep 19, 2006)

I am leaving now, taking her to rehabber Rita and hope and pray for the best.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

These are threads and posts regarding Lucky the dove:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=14444

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?p=119650

Pidgey


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## ante bozanich (Sep 19, 2006)

Thank you but it's too late. The worst has happened. January was killed. Now I can't believe I have allowed it to happen. I was told that it was not me but the canker that had destroyed her lower beak and her entire jaw and that without it she would not be able to eat and that if I keep her it was not going to be a happy ending. This rehabber has helped me a lot with January, has given me the medication and detailed instruction. January and me had visited her office twice during these last two weeks and I have come to see her as very knowledgeable and compassionate person who cares about animals and loves pigeons. Why this has happened I ask with tears in my eyes. 

Yesterday I went to her office very distressed. I new things did not look good. My fears were confirmed and added on. I pleaded and asked if there is anything that can be done and that I was prepared to keep January inside and feed her by tube for the rest of her or my life. None of this seems to agree with Rita. She felt strongly that the best thing to do is to lethally inject January. As I said I had developed the trust and respect for Rita. I was in tears and confused. It all happened quick and January is no more. That minute I forgot how final the death is. Now I feel This should not have happened. I am not blaming anyone but myself.

I feel now, looking back, that since January did not seem to be in any severe pain there was not need to rush with euthanasia.

I am sharing this realizing the hard fact that nothing can be done about this now, that nothing can bring January back. I am doing it because it is helping me with my sorrow, pain and guilt, also to share a lesson to be learned from this which is never, never to rush, to think very hard and never let anyone make the decision for you when it comes to matters of life and death. This is the hard lesson I had to learn and painful reality I have to except right now.

I am sorry January. I did not now better. Please forgive me and rest in peace. I will always remember you.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Ante,

You did the right thing by getting a veterinary evaluation and even the euthanasia. What were you going to do a few days or weeks from now when the bird was ready to die and was going to die on your watch. These are always tough calls .. I think you did the right thing and so did the vet clinic.

Terry


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## ante bozanich (Sep 19, 2006)

Terry,

Thank you for the reply and I thank everyone here for support and help now and in the past. I have lost many animal friends in the past and my sister, mother and father all not too long ago. Coping with death of loved ones is never easy. One never gets used to it. I think actually it gets harder and harder as if each new loss brings the pain of all the previous mournings. 

Perhaps, you are right. It is possible that I am not thinking rationally right now. God only knows how bad I feel. Even though I am surrounded by animals, who I am trying to help, it seems no other of them need my help as much as January did, and no other I have felt so much for in such a short amount of time.

I still don't see why it was not possible for me to feed January with the tube. I did it for two weeks and she did recover, got strong and was able to fly. I just don't know.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Ante,

I am so sorry that you are going through this, please take consolation in the fact that if January was put down it was with kindness and compassion. I was also persuaded by a vet to have a wood pigeon that needed an amputation put down. I also had a very fit pigeon with canker put down in the days that I didn't know that spartrix existed. I know what you are going through as I have regretted both decisions.

*This is not directed at you specifically but at anyone that is advised to euthanase a rescued pigeon*: 

Unless the pigeon is in unrelievable pain or it is clear that there is and can be no quality of life it is always best to get the vet's opinion and reasons if euthanasia is recommended and then take the pigeon back home to think about it and discuss the situation on line. Pigeons are adaptable birds but vets and rehabbers don't often get to see how they adapt. Often euthanasia may well be the answer, but by giving yourself time you can avoid the agony of thinking you may have made the wrong decision.

Cynthia


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

Sometimes it takes the ones who love their pets the most to make the compassionate decision to let them go. You did not want your January to suffer. That was the basis of your decision. Believe me when I say that it takes true love and a very unselfish person to give up a pet that is suffering.

There was only one right decision here, and you made it.

God Bless You,
Feather


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hi Ante

Grieve for January in that she died but do not grieve with guilt. Those of us who rehab birds know what you are going through. We must rely on other people with far more experience and training to sometimes make the decision for us. 

I have a veterinarian that I have worked with for about 14 years and I know she would never, ever, recommend euthanasia unless it was absolutely necessary. In all the years we have rehabbed birds, we have only had a very few that had to be euthanized. I will say that as I have learned more about caring for pigeons that if I have to take a pigeon to a vet other than our regular one, I have argued with them about euthanasia. One particular pigeon we rescued had fallen from a high bridge with injuries. This was a baby and she apparently landed on her rump causing massive swelling at her rear plus a broken wing or leg (can't remember offhand which). This emergency vet immediately wanted her put down because of the swelling because she said it would have caused irreversible damage to her organs. I told her no, that we wanted to see if it was just bruising. Turned out that is exactly what it was and that little baby survived. We had to keep her much longer than usual but it was well worth it.

So, try not to worry about this too much. All of us who love pigeons regret the loss of January but trite as this may sound - you at least tried to help her and she did not die a slow, painful death.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Ante, I'm sorry about January, her suffering and the need to be euthanized. Your feelings are understandable but once you are over the initial trauma of loss and can think about it more clearly, it may seem a very wise decision that Rita helped you reach. How could you predict that today and for the rest of either one of your lives you'd be available to help w/every meal? Sometimes just
the flu alone will put you in bed for a few days and where would January be?
You made a difficult and selfless choice based on compassion. Don't be hard on yourself, there are many more who still need your help.

fp


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## ante bozanich (Sep 19, 2006)

Yeah, thanks to a all of you again. It's hard but I have to move on and forgive myself. Perhaps this was the best for January. I do think Cynthia advise is good and I just wish I had waited and given at least some more time for January to see and feel this world and to fly a little more even if it would have been only from my kitchen to the living room. I do miss her beautiful yellow eyes full of wonder and mystery. 

No this was not the first time I had to make decision like this. Just this last year I had to stand by several of my friends being euthanized. However, they were in pain and had terminal illness. With January, I don't know, it was different. There was no need to rush.

I have shed enough tears over night but this morning as it was getting light outside I realized there were couple dozens of bright eyes looking at me from the terrace asking for food and clean drinking water as it happens every day and there are some several dozens other rescued city creatures in my care who need my daily help. So I have to be strong and continue.

This has all made me feel and think a lot and my love and respect for all animals and especially for pigeons has grown.

As always I am grateful for this forum.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

ante, I'm glad you're feeling a bit better.

fp


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Ante, 

I am truly sorry that your beloved January is gone! A decision, such as the one made in your case, is never easy.

I don't think you will find another site with more compassionate members. Most have had to face the same thing you did. Guilt is the worst feeling to overcome and takes the longest to ease. Only time and patience will help bring you peace.

Usually, when I'm in doubt, I just wait or don't take any action. The answer always comes through. I also believe that everything happens for a reason. January could have been in pain and may have suffered more than you might have been aware. She is no longer suffering and has joined many other beloved ones who welcomed her with open wings. She's free to fly with them all. She also knows that she will always have a place in your heart.

Sending you LOVE, HUGS and COMFORTING THOUGHTS...

Shi


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## teebo (Jul 7, 2006)

i know what your feeling,you are a compassionate and caring person,you did your best.reading all your messages has made me cry.you have a great heart,she is in a better place ,and so is your family,they say we are living in hell right now,until we get to heaven,and i believe that once are time on earth is through ,we join our family and pets,again.where there is no pain or saddness.god will pull you through this,there are more birds in the future that will need your help.keep strong and may god be with you.


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## ante bozanich (Sep 19, 2006)

Thank you and you are right, you are all great, supportive and kind people.

But hear this. Yesterday, as I was trying to clean some of the pigeon poop on the terrace, I climbed up the ladder and on the top of a cabinet about nine feet high inside of an old cat carrying cage was September who I found last September right bellow there on the ground with her both legs paralyzed http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=17501. She was sitting there still. I did not want to disturb her. About fifteen minutes later she took off. I climbed up again and looked and I saw one single egg looking very pink and reddish. I went down quick and she came back. It is very cold in NYC right now. Last year there was another couple that raised two youngsters in the same cat cage but it was warm then. I don't know whether to be exited or to worry. Why is there only one egg, why is it so pink and is it going to freeze? Maybe this is a help from above to take me away from my pain thinking about January and the baby inside the egg is January's reincarnation.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

ante bozanich said:


> Thank you and you are right, you are all great, supportive and kind people.
> 
> But hear this. Yesterday, as I was trying to clean some of the pigeon poop on the terrace, I climbed up the ladder and on the top of a cabinet about nine feet high inside of an old cat carrying cage was September who I found last September right bellow there on the ground with her both legs paralyzed http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=17501. She was sitting there still. I did not want to disturb her. About fifteen minutes later she took off. I climbed up again and looked and I saw one single egg looking very pink and reddish. I went down quick and she came back. It is very cold in NYC right now. Last year there was another couple that raised two youngsters in the same cat cage but it was warm then. I don't know whether to be exited or to worry. Why is there only one egg, why is it so pink and is it going to freeze? Maybe this is a help from above to take me away from my pain thinking about January and the baby inside the egg is January's reincarnation.


They lay thier eggs 2 days apart. Most likely the egg was laid yesterday (Friday) and she will lay the other tomorrow (Sunday). That may be why the egg looked pinkish....what time was it when you found her and the egg? 
Now, this is my opinion only BUT.......I personally would take the eggs and give her dummy eggs if you have them OR boil these and replace when cooled. Let her sit on them until she leaves them or keep count of how many days they are there and maybe by the time she has sat for 20 days or so and lays another set, it will be warmer and you can let the next ones hatch.
It is VERY cold now and although there's a good chance that they would survive, it really is tough on them. It's up to you and what ever you decide, we'll all go along with you..........


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## ante bozanich (Sep 19, 2006)

Thanx. I knew they lay two eggs but was not aware it was 2 days apart. So that must be the case. I do not want to climb up there again and disturb them. I think I will let them be. It's gotten warmer outside and both her and her mate have been coming inside couple of times per day with the rest of the crowd to eat. I also leave out plenty of clean water for them all the time. I have been seeing her and her mate carrying twigs nearby the nest. 

My only fear is the neighbors right, left, in front , above and below. There are now about dozen regulars who sleep on my terrace and another dozen that come daily for water and food. They are starting to make noise. I am trying to keep as low profile as I can but I can not do anything about them being loud. Perhaps, I think it may be a mistake posting this on the internet. I don't know. I think of the worst that could happen if threatened with the eviction. Will the birds be able to survive?


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Ante,

Pigeons are great survivors, that is why people perceive them as a problem. John feeds the pigeons on his balcony and there are 6 that roost there every night One of his regular visitors has no feet and has been appearing and disappearing for years. This week he reappeared, looking healthy, after a long absence. The same thing happened to a friend who feeds the pigeons in the park. Where they were during their absences is a mystery, but they were obviously able to find plenty of food.

It might be a good idea to limit yourself to feeding a few days a week, so that they continue to forage for food elsewhere then if anything happens they will have backup. This is what I had to resort to doing with my city flocks.

Otherwise limit the feed that you put out to avoid the numbers building up. I started feeding a single pigeon in a quiet road once, then increased the food by a handful for every new pigeon that came to eat. Within no time there were over 60 waiting for me and a resident was threatening to shoot them and place their bodies in my garden (surprisingly the policeman I reported this to wanted to give him a warning for harassment, I declined because I thought he would harm the pigeon in retaliation),

The big danger with pigeons is that if their numbers build up too much they can be culled.

Cynthia


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## ante bozanich (Sep 19, 2006)

Hi Renee, You were right. Couple of days ago, while both September and her mate were away I sneaked up there again. There are two eggs there for sure, and they are not reddish any more. My guess is, that when I saw the first egg for the first time, she had just finished laying it. Now there are many more twigs inside the nest. September and her mate are getting help with food, fresh water and grit. I also got some hay, placed it outside the terrace and her partner got busy right away taking it to the nest. However, yesterday I noticed they were both making another nest right behind the cat carrying cage and are lying and hanging around there. My feeling is that they might have abandoned those two eggs and are getting ready for the next two. It is a little disappointing but I guess they know what is the best. I hope it is not because they saw me from the distance looking inside the nest. I only did it twice while they were gone.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Ante,

Hay and straw are not good nesting materials for pigeons because it becomes damp with poops and can form a fungus that can be deadly to pigeon. 

Twigs and tobacco stalks are safer.

Cynthia.


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## ante bozanich (Sep 19, 2006)

cyro51 said:


> Hi Ante,
> 
> Hay and straw are not good nesting materials for pigeons because it becomes damp with poops and can form a fungus that can be deadly to pigeon.
> 
> ...


Hey thanks. I didn't know this. I am not sure what to do right now, whether to dismantle their nest or to let it be. They have been working very hard on it. I will not put out any more of that hay, but I don't know where to find twigs and tobacco stalks. I think I will just let them do their own thing and not interfere right now.

I meant to post a long response to your earlier post regarding feeding of pigeons, but I just got hit by a brick load of responsibilities, so all of this is, unfortunately, going to have to wait for now.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

It is best to let them be but provide twigs so that as the nest develops the twigs form the first layer.

Cynthia


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## ante bozanich (Sep 19, 2006)

Do you know if there is a place I can buy them or should I just go to a park and try to find them. Sadly, I do not live in the country .


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