# How fragile? Cold care?



## Brownieluv (Dec 12, 2005)

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing; a lot is petrifying!

I've read several of the links posted here. My boyfriend says birds are apparently much more difficult to childproof for than, say, children.

I'm seriously frightened I won't be able to remember or protect from all the many hazards listed.

Space heaters - at least they're still new in the box, should they have teflon.

One of my big concerns now - drafts.

Our beautiful, big new cage is next to our glass sliding balcony door. In the "Bird Proofing your Home" article it states that drafts can make a cockatiel sick. Is this true of pigeons? I think I may have heard a sneeze or two recently. Or maybe I've just become neurotic Mom.

Just in case, how to care for a cold?

This cage is huge; we're trying to figure out where we can possible move it. I think only getting rid of the entertainment center will work. I'll describe this amazing cage in another thread.


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*What a good mama*

Increase the thickness of the cage cover if you feel it to cold. Vitimins and electrolyte in the water may up your immuninty to sickness. I believe at one time these pigeons lived in the wild. so long as you don't get colder tham 45* that you will be ok. Listen to birds breathing. Does it sound rattly or do you see mucus on the nose? If thier is a cold . They sell antibiotics for pigeons.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Pigeons can handle cold temps, but not drafts of cold or hot air. 

They do enjoy open windows and fresh air. But if you have a window or door open on the opposite side of where the bird is, next to an open window, then you have a draft.

When I have to keep a bird inside for rehab, I usually cover most of the cage, except the front, with a big towel, and set it back against a wall.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Cold temperatures and drafts*

We had a six-inch snowfall the last day of 2005 here in Cologne. 
I noticed that five or six pigeons sleep on the narrow ledges of only two church windows out of many in the church across the street. They are trefoil stained glass windows (check Wikipedia - architecture, or visualize two Mickey Mouse ears with an equal-sized face below the ears). 
That day the very fine snow drifted gently down, with occasional breezes. There was a thick snow layer covering the entire sidewalks of the neighboring buildings, and covering the cobblestones up to the church wall. But the ground was bare two or three meters (6-10 feet) at the southeast wall of the Romanesque church apse, and around the east side of the apse (rear side of the church. It was a clear demonstration that those windows are in the lee side of the church, mostly out of any wind. Those windows are about twenty feet or six meters up the wall, Any wind coming around the corners probably encounters turbulence, and thus a "dead" air space is created. If the pigeons have enough to eat they can withstand some cold. I know some don't make it through the winter, but am not sure of the primary cause. 
I think that breezes would cause them to expend energy to maintain their balance and footing on the ledge, and that maybe they want to conserve calories. Being fluffed up to conserve heat, and very still at night (to also avoid attracting predators) is the safest and best way to do that. 
Our five-month-old rescued and hand-raised male pigeon Wieteke goes outdoors all day long and sometimes overnight to be with the other pigeons, regardless of the cold. He comes in around noon (usually) for food. Usually he sleeps indoors, and it is warmer inside. Sometimes he sleeps up high indoors, where I would be sweating, but usually on the sofa. Rarely does he sleep where we would like, on a towel. I haven't successfully kept him in the pet carrier (covered with two towels) overnight, but we are a bit soft (in the head). 
The sreet pigeons here settle down for the night (usually where we humans can't see them) about two hours before dark, so that night predators will not notice where they sleep, and so that they have time to be aware that their chosen quarters are secure. After the many fireworks New Year's Eve, only one pigeon occupied the windows New Year's Day, and as of last night only two or three pigeons had returned.
Our Wieteke has returned home (from two blocks away) five or six times two and three hours after dark! It is not pitch dark here, but I never see the other pigeons move at all after dark. Occasionally I will see one working over his neck feathers.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Larry, that is amazing that he can find his way home several hours after dark. Do you routinely look for him most nights? How does he let you know he is home.

Maggie


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## Brownieluv (Dec 12, 2005)

Larry_Cologne said:


> We had a six-inch snowfall the last day of 2005 here in Cologne.
> I noticed that five or six pigeons sleep on the narrow ledges of only two church windows out of many in the church across the street. They are trefoil stained glass windows (check Wikipedia - architecture, or visualize two Mickey Mouse ears with an equal-sized face below the ears).
> That day the very fine snow drifted gently down, with occasional breezes. There was a thick snow layer covering the entire sidewalks of the neighboring buildings, and covering the cobblestones up to the church wall. But the ground was bare two or three meters (6-10 feet) at the southeast wall of the Romanesque church apse, and around the east side of the apse (rear side of the church. It was a clear demonstration that those windows are in the lee side of the church, mostly out of any wind. Those windows are about twenty feet or six meters up the wall, Any wind coming around the corners probably encounters turbulence, and thus a "dead" air space is created. If the pigeons have enough to eat they can withstand some cold. I know some don't make it through thhe winter, but am not sure of the primary cause.
> I think that breezes would cause them to expend energy to maintain their balance and footing on the ledge, and that maybe they want to conserve calories. Being fluffed up to conserve heat, and very still at night (to also avoid attracting predators) is the safest and best way to do that.
> ...


Wow. Fascinating story, and like the way you theorize about cause and effect.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Wieteke travelling after dark*

QUOTE=Lady Tarheel]Larry, that is amazing that he can find his way home several hours after dark. Do you routinely look for him most nights? How does he let you know he is home.

Maggie[/QUOTE]

Maggie, 

Sorry for the delay in responding to your question. I was distracted by software problems, etc. 

It is interesting how we sometimes pass on misinformation because we unknowingly do not put things into their proper context. 

I live in Cologne, and in one recent post I said that Wieteke was spending nights outside in sub-zero weather. Sub-zero (that night, -7° Celsius) is only 20° Fahrenheit. Big difference, but still cold. On another note, I’ve read that most people think of 0°C and 32°F as the freezing point of water, when it is technically the melting point of ice or frozen water. Undisturbed water, and impure water such as water with dirt particles or antifreeze added, can remain unfrozen for a number of degrees below 0°c or 32°F. So, if I had said he slept outside in below freezing weather, most of us would catch the gist of what I said, but I should be more specific. (If the pigeon doesn’t freeze, has he slept in freezing weather?) I think I’ll bail out of this discussion (with myself) now. 

So, it sounds amazing that *Wieteke* can find his way home after dark. Interesting point. I thought about it. I looked out the window after dark. The city here is well lit. I have no trouble finding my way around, even in the wee hours of the morning. 

I brought Wieteke home on August 23rd when he was an estimated 18 days old, and took him places until he could fly. All of his ventures outside were then up to him. We left the window open for him. He mixed in well with the street pigeons, and though he had a lame left foot, he could fly well. I realized with this pigeon that I didn’t have to teach a healthy pigeon how to fly. By the time his feathers were long enough to provide lift sufficient to fly he had gone through flying motions so often that flying came as no surprise to him. One day he flew across the room and showed no (apparent to us) elation about his first flight. 

*Pidgiepoo* attempted short flights before he had sufficient feathering, and I noted his first level two-meter flight from the table to the bed, his first descent from the table to the floor, his first ascent from the floor to the chair, his first ascent from the floor to the table, and first long flight across the room, all performed within a week. He didn't make a big show of it, but I could tell he was excited. 

We were confident about Wieteke’s flying abilities. He was a strong flier. We had to let him outside of our one-room apartment to have sufficient room to fly. Our first concern was whether he would get run over by a car. He was sufficiently well-fed that he did not have to focus on finding food, and compete with the other pigeons. 

I had observed several pigeons being run over, by cars and by a bus. (The driver is usually unaware that he has run over an out-of-sight pigeon). In most (fatal and near-miss) situations the vehicle has slowed down to make a turn, and therefore quietly makes the turn or comes around the corner. The pigeon is facing away from the vehicle, with the head and the beak pointing down. He does not hear or see the approaching vehicle. If he does hear it, it does not stand out from the surrounding noises, or it makes insufficient noise to alarm him. The street pigeons here do not act as if the vehicles (buses, streetcars, bikes, cars, trucks) are predatory or dangerous. They are mostly a nuisance. The pigeon is usually hungry and food is a main priority, since there is a city statute against feeding street pigeons. When the pigeon is flying he can see backwards and upwards, so the pigeon is usually caught unawares when he is focused and pecking on food. Ten years ago I watched one pigeon get run over by a city bus as it silently glided around a bend. I am now alert enough to clap my hands when have time to see such a situation developing. I watched one pigeon caught under the wheel of a small car quietly accelerating after a turn. The pigeon had been eating with several others (thus assuming a degree of safety) and they flew off in front of the car. The others barely cleared the hood, and perhaps he was hindered by the nearness of the others. Perhaps also he was older, or somewhat ill. I weighed his corpse at 401 grams (454g = 1 pound), and kept four loosened feathers. I saw another pigeon moving very slowly, obviously sick (I think PMV). I dropped some seed, hoping to bring it home. It managed to avoid me by crossing the street several times and staying between the parked cars. I did not want to stress it further by obviously chasing it (and I did not want to attract attention). A few minutes later I saw that a car had run over it. Another time I saw a pigeon that had been trapped by a bus next to a high curb. 

End of Part 1. Part 2 continued in next post.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Wieteke travelling after dark, PART 2.*

When we first let *Pidgiepoo* out for a couple of hours of fresh air and exercise everyday I watched him the whole time, from the street and eventually from our second-story window (referred to as the first floor in Germany: first floor above the ground floor. We have international participants in this forum). A couple of times he stayed just ahead of a moving car for a hundred yards or so before the car had to slow down for the intersection. _(Come on, Pidgiepoo! Veer off to the right side. Rise up a bit! Is that damn car accelerating? Watch out for the car antenna!)_ The first time our male Pidgiepoo went to the street below us, two of the seven or eight pigeons who habituated the stairway windows of our six-storey apartment building landed a foot on either side of him, stared at him, pecked the ground; then Pidgiepoo flew back up. I interpreted this as their way of saying, this is our main hangout or territory, and any small amounts of food here belong to us. Pidgiepoo pretty much stayed stayed on window ledges on our street and avoided the other pigeons his first few months. Pidgiepoo was chased by crows in a local park and we haven’t seen him since January 2004. 

We first thought *Wieteke* was a female because she (he) was very quiet and was eager for the company of other pigeons, and was readily accepted by them (we helped the pigeons become more friendly in ways I won’t elaborate on). He copied everything they did. Since he was well-fed he only pecked at street food in a disinterested way, and didn’t threaten their meager resources. After watching him his first few days on the street, we assumed he was fairly safe with the other pigeons. He would learn from them how to avoid predators He quickly adapted to spending most of each day outside. Most modern double-glazed windows here are double-hinged: hinging on the bottom, they can tip inwards a few inches at the top for ventilation, or they can open inwards like a door. He liked to perch on top of the wide-open window, providing him with a nice view of the street but a feeling of security from raptors. One night he slept there. The next night he slept on a window ledge across the street (but I could see him from my bed). Then he spent another night or two out. My wife saw him at a building a few blocks away, and one night I went looking for him and found him perched either on a fifth floor window ledge or else with several other pigeons on an adjoining roof gutter when he roo-cooed. 

Several times Wieteke came home an hour or more after dark, when other pigeons are still and settled in for the night. He sleeps a block or two away from us, within one or two hundred meters. The church (a medieval basilica with three tall towers) is spotlit until midnight. It is situated on a medieval „high street“ which runs on a north-south axis and is an extension of the early main „high street“ _(Hohestrasse)_ of Cologne, founded as Colonia, a Roman colony, in 50 B.C. As in older parts of many old cities, winding streets accommodated slow traffic. The church is on a slight elevation which descends to the Rhine roughly 500 yards or meters away. I see the back half of the church and two of its towers from my window, and Wieteke sleeps somewhere between the church and the Rhine. Most buildings in the vicinity do not rise above six or seven stories, to preserve the views of the many churches and the feeling of „old town.“ The city blocks form triangles, trapezoids, polygons; newer blocks (generally speaking) rectangles and squares. A mixture of street level commercial establishments and upper residential levels is common. City blocks enclose small backyard gardens, storage facilities, underground parking. They can be totally enclosed with a firebreak, or adjoining buildings can form a *U*. When I have gone to look for Wieteke at night, most of the backyards or _Hinterhofs_ are only partially accessible to view. 

When Wieteke travels at night, it is for a relatively short distance. He has spent so much time outdoors, observing, that he has a general feel for what is going on (except for New Year’s Eve fireworks, which changed the sleeping locations of some pigeons. We kept him indoors that night). He can readily see the church steeples and other distinguishing landmarks (easier than we can). 

To be accurate, I would have to say that Wieteke has never flown in the dark, in real darkness, in pitch-black darkness. 

This area is well lit and has a large population. The shelter across the street houses six hundred men. Street lamps every ten meters or so go on and off at irregular intervals for irregular lenths of time all night long. Someone committing a crime can be exposed by a streetlight suddenly turning on; if he doesn’t want to be conspicuous using a flashlight and depends on the streetlamp, it may suddenly go out. Driver’s license applicants learn what sign indicates a streetlamp that is always on (a necessity for some handicapped travellers). 

Visually, if we can move around at night why shouldn’t a pigeon, who can see better? Wieteke felt safe, and habituated to moving around at night in our small lit apartent, unlike other pigeons. He didn’t want to stay in a pet carrier covered with a towel. I wanted him to be self-confident and somewhat independent. He spent twelve nights away, and the last two very cold ones inside. 

He landed on the window flowerbox with a slight thump, roo-cooed, ate some, and just now high-tailed it down the street with twenty other pigeons. Home tonight?


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## Brownieluv (Dec 12, 2005)

*Pigeons and cars*

Maggie[/QUOTE]

Maggie, 


I had observed several pigeons being run over, by cars and by a bus. (The driver is usually unaware that he has run over an out-of-sight pigeon). In most (fatal and near-miss) situations the vehicle has slowed down to make a turn, and therefore quietly makes the turn or comes around the corner. The pigeon is facing away from the vehicle, with the head and the beak pointing down. He does not hear or see the approaching vehicle. If he does hear it, it does not stand out from the surrounding noises, or it makes insufficient noise to alarm him. The street pigeons here do not act as if the vehicles (buses, streetcars, bikes, cars, trucks) are predatory or dangerous. They are mostly a nuisance. The pigeon is usually hungry and food is a main priority, since there is a city statute against feeding street pigeons. When the pigeon is flying he can see backwards and upwards, so the pigeon is usually caught unawares when he is focused and pecking on food. Ten years ago I watched one pigeon get run over by a city bus as it silently glided around a bend. I am now alert enough to clap my hands when have time to see such a situation developing. I watched one pigeon caught under the wheel of a small car quietly accelerating after a turn. The pigeon had been eating with several others (thus assuming a degree of safety) and they flew off in front of the car. The others barely cleared the hood, and perhaps he was hindered by the nearness of the others. Perhaps also he was older, or somewhat ill. I weighed his corpse at 401 grams (454g = 1 pound), and kept four loosened feathers. I saw another pigeon moving very slowly, obviously sick (I think PMV). I dropped some seed, hoping to bring it home. It managed to avoid me by crossing the street several times and staying between the parked cars. I did not want to stress it further by obviously chasing it (and I did not want to attract attention). A few minutes later I saw that a car had run over it. Another time I saw a pigeon that had been trapped by a bus next to a high curb. 

[/QUOTE]

That is wonderful and very loving that you are trying to rescue the "handicapped" pigeons. I also observed with my feral flock that they are surprisingly and sadly unafraid of cars. I saw a few cars brake for them, which was very heartwarming. Unfortunately I also found the bloody corpse of one, over which I sobbed uncontrollably.


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## Brownieluv (Dec 12, 2005)

*Great stories*



Larry_Cologne said:


> When we first let *Pidgiepoo* out for a couple of hours of fresh air and exercise everyday I watched him the whole time, from the street and eventually from our second-story window (referred to as the first floor in Germany: first floor above the ground floor. We have international participants in this forum). A couple of times he stayed just ahead of a moving car for a hundred yards or so before the car had to slow down for the intersection. _(Come on, Pidgiepoo! Veer off to the right side. Rise up a bit! Is that damn car accelerating? Watch out for the car antenna!)_ The first time our male Pidgiepoo went to the street below us, two of the seven or eight pigeons who habituated the stairway windows of our six-storey apartment building landed a foot on either side of him, stared at him, pecked the ground; then Pidgiepoo flew back up. I interpreted this as their way of saying, this is our main hangout or territory, and any small amounts of food here belong to us. Pidgiepoo pretty much stayed stayed on window ledges on our street and avoided the other pigeons his first few months. Pidgiepoo was chased by crows in a local park and we haven’t seen him since January 2004.
> 
> We first thought *Wieteke* was a female because she (he) was very quiet and was eager for the company of other pigeons, and was readily accepted by them (we helped the pigeons become more friendly in ways I won’t elaborate on). He copied everything they did. Since he was well-fed he only pecked at street food in a disinterested way, and didn’t threaten their meager resources. After watching him his first few days on the street, we assumed he was fairly safe with the other pigeons. He would learn from them how to avoid predators He quickly adapted to spending most of each day outside. Most modern double-glazed windows here are double-hinged: hinging on the bottom, they can tip inwards a few inches at the top for ventilation, or they can open inwards like a door. He liked to perch on top of the wide-open window, providing him with a nice view of the street but a feeling of security from raptors. One night he slept there. The next night he slept on a window ledge across the street (but I could see him from my bed). Then he spent another night or two out. My wife saw him at a building a few blocks away, and one night I went looking for him and found him perched either on a fifth floor window ledge or else with several other pigeons on an adjoining roof gutter when he roo-cooed.
> 
> ...


I love your detailed stories. A lot of fun to read.


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