# Almond



## medlefang (Feb 14, 2012)

What would i breed to a kite jacobin to get a almond Jacobin?


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

An Almond. Almond to Non Almond would give you 50% Almond offspring. Almond to Almond matings are not recommended.


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

I've heard that before. What do you get with almond to almond? Why is this a problem?


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

almondman said:


> I've heard that before. What do you get with almond to almond? Why is this a problem?


In short you get dead squabs or eggs that do not develop properley. 

When the Almond Gene (St) is in its homozygous form it becomes lethal in a huge number of cases. Birds that survive will often have trouble breeding and could be blind dor have bladder eye.

Due to Almond (St) being sex linked it is impossible for a hen to be homozygous so Almond hens do not get affected. Cockbirds are fine if they have one dose Almond but as soon as it doubles up ( one gene from each parent ) the above problems occur

An Almond to Almond mating would produce

Hens
50% almond (will survive fine)
50% non almond (will survive fine)

Cocks
50% het almonds ( will survive fine )
50% homozygous almonds. ( will most likely not survive )

As you can see from this pairing 1 in 4 of the young are likely not to survive.


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

Thanks Evan. Very good reasons not to go almond to almond!


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Yup, It's amazing how many people that breed Almonds do not know this.


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

Never bred for almond. I have just always liked and enjoyed the color. But it's good info to know going forward.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

almondman said:


> Never bred for almond. I have just always liked and enjoyed the color. But it's good info to know going forward.


It is a nice colour, This was not directed at you by the way.


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

Didn't take it that way. Just happy to learn something new. I was told earlier that almond and kite is a good combination. Any others that work well to produce, or enhance, the almond coloring?


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## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

Some people have told me that a dose of ash red is helpful but I've not experimented with it, however I did see a nice classic almond ash red at NYBS some years ago. I tried to tell the owner of the bird that it couldn't possibly be ash red because ash and almond were supposedly allelic. He told me that the cock bird produced ash reds and almonds when mated to blue hens. I finally believed him when I found a single tail feather expressing an ash band on it.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

You are right almondman - Kite, Almond, Dirty aswell on a blue T pattern bird with one dose of recessive red makes the ideal classic almond colouration. Some people believe grizzle is also in the mix also.
I personally like Blue Spread almonds het for brown with the almond linked to the brown, This creates a really nice looking blue and brown flecked bird. There are soo many different phenotypes with Almond and alot comes down to opinion but the genes listed above create the classical colouration as seen in your pic

Tmaas - Ash and Almond Allelic? They are on the same chromosone but are not at the same locus, as far as studies have shown to date ash red, blue and brown are allelic. Almond, Qualmond, Faded, Hickory, Sandy And frosty are alleles and maybe one other that I have missed.

An ash red split for blue makes a nice almond if the almond gene is picked up along with the blue, Most ash red almonds are quite plain and boring though unless they are het for blue with the almond gene linked to the blue as stated above, This will give a nice reddish yellow bird with dark blue flecking. I have bred a lot of Almonds in my thiefs which carry, blue, brown and ash red, No kite or recessive red though so I have tried some different combos using the genes I have, Basically just the 3 base colours, Spread and all in Bar pattern. With this alone I have seen heaps of phenotypes.

Here is an ash red almond of mine that carries blue but I suspect the almond gene is linked to the ash red.


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## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

Tmaas - Ash and Almond Allelic? They are on the same chromosone but are not at the same locus, as far as studies have shown to date ash red, blue and brown are allelic. Almond, Qualmond, Faded, Hickory, Sandy And frosty are alleles and maybe one other that I have missed.

Evan,i stand corrected, your right.


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

There are indeed many different ways to create almonds, though there is only one way to create the almond (often known as classical almond) that is seen in the ESF. These birds have very dark ground color compared to the other almonds, this is due to T-pattern, kite bronze and probably dirty genes.

Blue T-pattern almond, without any other modifiers pretty much has white ground color with black flecks (rarely the neck may show some yellowing). Adding ash-red / brown / bronze and even sometimes dirty can help to get more red/yellow color in the shield. T-pattern is important to keep the flecks dark (blue bar almond is light with mostly blue flecks).

Breeding almond to almond is not a good idea as Evan stated. Homozygous almond is usually lethal, with very few exceptions. The birds that do survive have eye problems in varying degrees. I have a homozygous almond male which is perfectly healthy, but has a visible deformation of the iris (it isn't round, but is flattened from above). He has some vision problems, but this does not seem to affect his ability to feed or breed at all.


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

Thanks to all! It still amazes me how many factors go into breeding for color. And how you keep it all straight. 

Why is it that almond, and I think some others, continue to change/improve with each molt?


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

almondman said:


> Thanks to all! It still amazes me how many factors go into breeding for color. And how you keep it all straight.
> 
> Why is it that almond, and I think some others, continue to change/improve with each molt?


The improve statement is debatable, Some Almonds moult in so much colour that they look like a standard pigeon again, You are right though that Almonds generally take a few years to come into themselves.

I am not sure why the Almond gene lets more pigment through with each moult, I am sure there is a scientific explanation. I guess whatever is in the bird chemically that is preventing the pigment from showing through looses its ability to cut pigment with each moult causing more of the birds unaffected pigment to show through.


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

NZ Pigeon said:


> The improve statement is debatable, Some Almonds moult in so much colour that they look like a standard pigeon again, You are right though that Almonds generally take a few years to come into themselves.
> 
> I am not sure why the Almond gene lets more pigment through with each moult, I am sure there is a scientific explanation. I guess whatever is in the bird chemically that is preventing the pigment from showing through looses its ability to cut pigment with each moult causing more of the birds unaffected pigment to show through.


Yeah, no-one has really figured out what causes almonds to be almonds...

It could be that a required component in the metabolic pathway for melanin builds up more slowly in these birds. If this component is not used up, but rather just acts as a substrate for the melanin to form and can be used again and again, it explain why the birds can produce more melanin as time progresses.

I have some birds that are only a year old and already are between 10 and 25 % flecked. I guesstimate they will be [almost] completely dark by the time they are 5 years old. Others from the same family show hardly any flecks at all, and look like plain old ash-yellow T's.


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

Does this occur with any other color(?) of pigeon, or is it seen in any other birds, other than pigeons?


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

I am unsure on that one, In ash red birds het for blue I have noticed increased flecking with moults. Rudolph - Do you know of any?


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

NZ Pigeon said:


> I am unsure on that one, In ash red birds het for blue I have noticed increased flecking with moults. Rudolph - Do you know of any?


I have also seen the flecks on my split blue ash-red males increase or move over time (especially in the flights and tail). But have never seen any other such darkening expression in pigeons.

There is a similar lightening effect though. Recessive reds with some sometimes get more white with every moult. Though usually this only happens at the first moult in most RR white-sides, I have bred more than one homer which has gotten progressively more white feathers as they aged, though I have never kept them long enough to see if they go completely white like the Seraphim (I rather doubt it).


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

rudolph.est said:


> I have also seen the flecks on my split blue ash-red males increase or move over time (especially in the flights and tail). But have never seen any other such darkening expression in pigeons.
> 
> There is a similar lightening effect though. Recessive reds with some sometimes get more white with every moult. Though usually this only happens at the first moult in most RR white-sides, I have bred more than one homer which has gotten progressively more white feathers as they aged, though I have never kept them long enough to see if they go completely white like the Seraphim (I rather doubt it).


Good point, I did not think of the lightening side of things, Grizzle changes slightly with age too IMLE, once again, mainly in the first moult but I have seen slight differences with each progressive moult. It is obvious in photos showing a 3-4 year gap but from year to year the difference is hardly visible.


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## earlofwood (Jul 1, 2012)

*Is almond linked with Brown in Birmingham Rollers yet?*

@NZ I realize this is an old thread but you mentioned you have seen almond linked with brown in your Pouters. Does anyone know if almond has cross-linked to pair it with the Brown gene in rollers yet?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

earlofwood said:


> @NZ I realize this is an old thread but you mentioned you have seen almond linked with brown in your Pouters. Does anyone know if almond has cross-linked to pair it with the Brown gene in rollers yet?



This thread is 4 years old. You could post the question in a new thread. You may get more answers.


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