# Single Parent?



## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

I have a bit of a dilemma. I have two breeding pairs of white homing pigeons. One pair nested and laid eggs a few weeks ago. Unfortunately, they chose to nest on the loft floor instead of in a nestbox. This past weekend, the cock of that pair was seriously injured in a fight with the other (dominant) cock. He passed away later that day. A couple days later (Tuesday), the eggs hatched. I have isolated the area and provided food and water for the hen so she doesn't need to leave the nest. On Wednesday afternoon, I checked the babies, and one was doing fine, but the other was deceased. I removed the deceased baby, and put a fake egg in the nest for the remaining baby to lean on. I checked the baby again Thursday evening, and it seems to be doing fine...growing well and a full crop. Is it likely that the hen can successfully raise this baby on her own, or is disaster lurking a round the corner?


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

ptras, 

Did pops pass before or after hatching? My problem is a hen whose mate has abandoned her to sit alone. Eggs are a week from hatch. Not sure if I should remove the eggs now or let nature take over.


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## whytwings (Feb 12, 2011)

Oh heck ......that is a dilemma indeed .
The only problem i see developing is that the hen bird usually resigns from feeding the babies at a certain age and then it is the cock birds responsibility to feed and look after them , maybe hand feeding them when that happens might be your only option . Personally I would have searched for a surrogate pair if you were lucky enuff to have that option open to you .

I was faced with a similar situation earlier this year after my hen was electrocuted , but the cock bird continued to feed and raise them just wonderfully , although your situation is the other way round .

It will be very interesting to see what other members have to say !

Best of luck to you PTRAS


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

well you already know what Iam going to say.. take it in and hand feed it.. if you want to give it the best chance... or you can suppliment her with the hen..you may have to step in later when the cock usually does the feeding... if they are alone on the floor you could just suppliment if need be.. but if you have that bully in there.. it may attack the baby when it gets bigger.... never heard of an adult bird dying from a scuffle with another cock bird.. they usually do not go that far...


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## newtopidgeons (Mar 11, 2011)

spirit wings said:


> .... never heard of an adult bird dying from a scuffle with another cock bird.. they usually do not go that far...


Thats what I thought

Im sorry this happened to you, but at the same time I hope it never happens here.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

spirit wings said:


> well you already know what Iam going to say.. take it in and hand feed it.. if you want to give it the best chance... or you can suppliment her with the hen..you may have to step in later when the cock usually does the feeding... if they are alone on the floor you could just suppliment if need be.. but if you have that bully in there.. it may attack the baby when it gets bigger.... never heard of an adult bird dying from a scuffle with another cock bird.. they usually do not go that far...


I'm going to let the mother continue to feed the baby - monitoring it to make sure the crop is full and it is growing. If I need to supplement or hand feed later I will. I have isolated the bird from the rest of the loft so it shouldn't be a problem with the bully.

I didn't think that a bird could die from a tussle with another, but this one did. The bully bird blinded the other bird, and then it was probably defenseless. I too was surprised by that. I think I need to provide more space so birds can get away from each other more easily. Those two pair are in 14 square feet, but it is a narrow space.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

ptras said:


> I'm going to let the mother continue to feed the baby - monitoring it to make sure the crop is full and it is growing. If I need to supplement or hand feed later I will. I have isolated the bird from the rest of the loft so it shouldn't be a problem with the bully.
> 
> I didn't think that a bird could die from a tussle with another, but this one did. The bully bird blinded the other bird, and then it was probably defenseless. I too was surprised by that. I think I need to provide more space so birds can get away from each other more easily. Those two pair are in 14 square feet, but it is a narrow space.


you may be right.. I would be saying bye bye to that bird if it killed another one of my birds.. would not want his kids in my loft either.. but that is just me..


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

spirit wings said:


> you may be right.. I would be saying bye bye to that bird if it killed another one of my birds.. would not want his kids in my loft either.. but that is just me..


I've considered that, but he is mated to my other white hen. If I get rid of him, I'll have two white hens and no cocks. Not much as far as breeding pairs go.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

ptras said:


> I've considered that, but he is mated to my other white hen. If I get rid of him, I'll have two white hens and no cocks. Not much as far as breeding pairs go.


yeah..but will the youngs be like him..how is that going to go in the long run.. there are alot of whites out there.. even real light grizzle birds can produce nice white or almost white babies.. some race folks have grizzle birds as well as whites, they may not want to keep.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

spirit wings said:


> yeah..but will the youngs be like him..how is that going to go in the long run.. there are alot of whites out there.. even real light grizzle birds can produce nice white or almost white babies.. some race folks have grizzle birds as well as whites, they may not want to keep.


You know anyone with whites they are looking for homes for? 

My original plan was to buy a dozen squeakers to start out, but that was derailed by money issues. I found a local guy who gave me the two pair of breeders, and I figured with three rounds of babies, I could have a flying kit. Not looking so good right now.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

ptras said:


> You know anyone with whites they are looking for homes for?
> 
> My original plan was to buy a dozen squeakers to start out, but that was derailed by money issues. I found a local guy who gave me the two pair of breeders, and I figured with three rounds of babies, I could have a flying kit. Not looking so good right now.



no.. but if you sniff around some race clubs and put the word out you may get lucky and find a few prisoner white birds or close to white... some have bred already and are done with some pairings and or birds.. not alot have grizzles..but some do.. when I started out I got 30 youngs..from the same loft.. it was about 500.00.. I was gifted a prisoner pair of race grizzles birds and adding their babies to my all whites..and two grizzle babies I got last year , I do not do alot of breeding with the homers because this prisoner pair give me 6 babies each year..and the whites are not in the breeding section so they do not hatch any babies.. they sit on fake eggs on the floor ...I have bred babies for a friend...just put the whites eggs under foster birds I have..I could do that for you if you want.. you would just have to send me a box when the time came and shipping cost.. hopefully it would be two young birds..


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## hankabus (Dec 3, 2009)

That really is something. I have never heard of a bird dying as a result of a fight either. (maybe just a freak circumstance). It could be the baby died as a result of the hen realizing she might not be able to feed two, so she decided rather than both dying she would feed one. If you keep fresh food and water/vitamins in front of her at all times, I think the babies chances are good. Spirits Advice is always good. You may have to hand feed it, keep monitoring the babies crop and health. 

Good luck Sorry for you loss of the Cock Bird
Hank


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## atvracinjason (Mar 4, 2010)

ptras
I have a mated pair of whites you may have, just gotta pay shipping. I won an auction and between auction sight problems and horrible weather I didn't get them for almost 2 months, the buyer was a stand up guy and sent me 2 pair. They are currently finishing up raising a pair or squeekers. 

Do you have another pair of birds on babies about the same age as the one remaining? If so I would transfer it under them. I believe it would be easier for a pair to raise three(although stressfull)than a single hen the one baby.
Is the weather warming up for you yet?

Skytx recently reccomended soaping an agressive cocks wings...might be worth a shot


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

I have a couple of hen's, that are 'mistress's", that raise their babies alone just fine. Just have to make sure they are warm enough when she leaves to eat and other birds can't get to the babies while unattended.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

atvracinjason said:


> ptras
> I have a mated pair of whites you may have, just gotta pay shipping. I won an auction and between auction sight problems and horrible weather I didn't get them for almost 2 months, the buyer was a stand up guy and sent me 2 pair. They are currently finishing up raising a pair or squeekers.
> 
> Do you have another pair of birds on babies about the same age as the one remaining? If so I would transfer it under them. I believe it would be easier for a pair to raise three(although stressfull)than a single hen the one baby.
> ...


That is a very kind offer. Any idea what the cost would be to ship from your location to Pembroke, Mass. 02359?

I would move the baby, but the timing is all wrong. I have a pair of rollers that are sitting on eggs now, but not due to hatch for a week. I have two other pairs that have four week and three week old babies. When the homer baby is four weeks old, I will move it to the floor of the roller loft. Squeakers on the floor of that breeding area tend to get fed by just about any available cock.


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## PigeonVilla (Dec 8, 2010)

So what is your real goal here on having white homers as far as to how many you want in the end ? I wouldnt worry about this cock breeding vicious offspring but just keep an eye on that hen with her one offspring to make sure she keeps feeding it in the long run. Space is the most likely culprit of your birds attacking other birds in a loft of breeding pairs if you ask me, but it can be managed if you keep them from breeding on the floor which they try to claim for themselves .


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

*Update*

The baby is now two weeks old and it is growing like crazy. It is comical to watch the hen try and sit on the baby now. She balances precariously on top of it, and looks like she is going to fall off. Sometimes she sits on it from behind, and fluffs out her feathers to cover it. All you can see of the baby is its little bald head poking out from the mother's breast feathers. 

I moved a pair of Tipplers that I had in the next section of the loft, and opened up the screen between the two sections, doubling the space. I also took out the bottom two rows of nest boxes (they used to go all the way to the floor), creating even more floor space in the breeding area. I haven't seen any additional aggressive behavior from the cock, but, of course, he is in with two hens and a baby. I think that the reason he was able to kill the other bird, is that he chased it into a very small space between my water fountain and the corner of the loft. I imagine that once the bird was in there it was unable to defend itself and was at the mercy of the bully. I had seen these two cocks going at it in the past, and the deceased bird used to give as good as he got. It was actually a little amusing to watch the two of them wing-slap each other while standing side-by-side at the feeder eating. Sort of reminded me of me and my younger brothers at the dinner table. 

So now that I have some more space, anybody have any whites I can have?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

what are looking for.. breeding pairs or youngins?..

you could try john..that is where I got my young birds..he did late hatch just for me because I bought 30 of them.. he may have some or can have some..or some extras.. I have been happy with my birds.




John C. Tierney, Jr.
Dawn M. Tierney
27600 Dawn Acres Lane
Mechanicsville, MD 20659








Phone: 301-290-0378
301-481-5114 Dawn's cell
240-299-5478 John's cell
Fax: 301-290-0378


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

spirit wings said:


> what are looking for.. breeding pairs or youngins?..
> 
> you could try john..that is where I got my young birds..he did late hatch just for me because I bought 30 of them.. he may have some or can have some..or some extras.. I have been happy with my birds.


I'm sure that they are good birds, but I'm on a budget. For some weird reason, my wife thinks it is more important to pay the bills and get food for the kids than it is to get new pigeons.  I'm hoping that if I can get a team of whites flying, I can make a little money doing releases, as there is no-one within forty miles of me doing it. My wife seems to like that idea a whole lot better. In fact, the guy who gave me the two pairs does releases, and he is trying to encourage me to get a release business going to handle his customer requests that are too far away from him.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

ptras said:


> I'm sure that they are good birds, but I'm on a budget. For some weird reason, my wife thinks it is more important to pay the bills and get food for the kids than it is to get new pigeons.  I'm hoping that if I can get a team of whites flying, I can make a little money doing releases, as there is no-one within forty miles of me doing it. My wife seems to like that idea a whole lot better. In fact, the guy who gave me the two pairs does releases, and he is trying to encourage me to get a release business going to handle his customer requests that are too far away from him.


what are you looking for.. free young birds..or free breeding pairs.. does this release guy have any?.. or can he hatch some for you?


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

spirit wings said:


> what are you looking for.. free young birds..or free breeding pairs.. does this release guy have any?.. or can he hatch some for you?


He gave me the two pair of breeders, but those were all he could spare. He has eight breeding pairs in addition, that he raises his flyers from. He told me that if he is able to raise three rounds of young this year, he will give me additional squeakers. However, he's not sure he will be able to raise three rounds, as we had a pretty late winter. The baby that I have (two weeks old) are the first round this year. Kind of pushing it to get three with the late start.

I would take either young birds or breeding pairs. I figure that I can raise a couple of rounds, and that will give me enough birds to fly, or I could start training squeakers right away.

On another note, I flew my rollers yesterday for the first time this year. We have had a red-tail hawk that claimed our backyard as his own territory. In the past two weeks, a few pair of crows have moved in, and they have chased the hawk away. I think the crows are hanging out because they can get free food at my next-door neighbor's horse corral. First time that I have been appreciative of the horses. 

You never saw a lazier bunch of birds than those rollers! They went from the loft, to the loft roof, to the roof of the house, to the loft roof, and then were looking to get fed.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

ptras said:


> He gave me the two pair of breeders, but those were all he could spare. He has eight breeding pairs in addition, that he raises his flyers from. He told me that if he is able to raise three rounds of young this year, he will give me additional squeakers. However, he's not sure he will be able to raise three rounds, as we had a pretty late winter. The baby that I have (two weeks old) are the first round this year. Kind of pushing it to get three with the late start.
> 
> I would take either young birds or breeding pairs. I figure that I can raise a couple of rounds, and that will give me enough birds to fly, or I could start training squeakers right away.
> 
> ...


have you thought of getting some eggs from his birds?.. and putting them under your rollers?


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

spirit wings said:


> have you thought of getting some eggs from his birds?.. and putting them under your rollers?


I only have two breeding pairs of rollers at this time, as I am flying the rest. I had a couple pair of homerXnyflight crosses that I was planning on using as pumpers, but I ended up sending them to a young member on here who had lost his birds. He loft flies them every day.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

ptras said:


> I only have two breeding pairs of rollers at this time, as I am flying the rest. I had a couple pair of homerXnyflight crosses that I was planning on using as pumpers, but I ended up sending them to a young member on here who had lost his birds. He loft flies them every day.


two pairs could get you some young birds from his eggs.. three rounds with his eggs.. could get you 6 youngins...and they could be flown..it would take just as long if you bought two prisoner pair of whites..and then you have to house the prisoners.. just a thought.. you could time it..he takes up his eggs the same time you take up your rollers eggs..and then his would lay about the same time yours did..and switch out the eggs.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

Okay...time for another update. The baby is almost three weeks old now, and the mother has been feeding it like a champion. Every evening I check the baby's crop, and it's just like a little bean-bag full of seeds.  Maybe the mother will continue feeding the baby since she will not likely lay another clutch of eggs as quickly due to there being no dad in the picture.

On another note, I had cleared out a couple of birds in the next section of my loft, and moved the bully bird into that section to keep him away from the baby, rather than just doubling the space as I originally intended. Two days after I moved him, his mate laid eggs.  I figured that the eggs would be a loss, but decided to try an experiment. I moved the eggs into a nest bowl and put them in the pen with the cock. He sniffed around them for about a half a day, and then that evening (last night) he was sitting on the eggs. I moved the hen into that pen also, hoping that she would follow suit with her mate. This afternoon when I went to my loft to feed the birds, the hen was sitting on the eggs. So...maybe this "egg moving experiment" will work, and I can be telling you all about my new squeakers in a couple weeks!


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

It is possible for one parent to raise babies as long as you give ample food. Usually when eggs haven't hatched yet are those times when a single parent will abandon them.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

RodSD said:


> It is possible for one parent to raise babies as long as you give ample food. Usually when eggs haven't hatched yet are those times when a single parent will abandon them.


I'm not sure, but the baby that I have being raised by a single parent hatched the day after the cock was killed. Maybe the hen didn't have time to abandon them.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

ptras said:


> Okay...time for another update. The baby is almost three weeks old now, and the mother has been feeding it like a champion. Every evening I check the baby's crop, and it's just like a little bean-bag full of seeds.  Maybe the mother will continue feeding the baby since she will not likely lay another clutch of eggs as quickly due to there being no dad in the picture.
> 
> On another note, I had cleared out a couple of birds in the next section of my loft, and moved the bully bird into that section to keep him away from the baby, rather than just doubling the space as I originally intended. Two days after I moved him, his mate laid eggs.  I figured that the eggs would be a loss, but decided to try an experiment. I moved the eggs into a nest bowl and put them in the pen with the cock. He sniffed around them for about a half a day, and then that evening (last night) he was sitting on the eggs. I moved the hen into that pen also, hoping that she would follow suit with her mate. This afternoon when I went to my loft to feed the birds, the hen was sitting on the eggs. So...maybe this "egg moving experiment" will work, and I can be telling you all about my new squeakers in a couple weeks!


*Update to my prior update:*

Yesterday I picked up fourteen white birds from a local enthusiast who was a bit overstocked. Total cost was $100 (plus some grief from my wife ). I actually bought thirteen whites and a splash. He just wanted it out of his loft, and I figured it can fly with the whites and no one will be the wiser. These birds are all squeakers that are unflown (ten to fourteen weeks old). I will be starting trap training this week, and hope to have them out on the roof of the loft within two weeks. I'll post updates and pictures when available.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

ptras said:


> *Update to my prior update:*
> 
> Yesterday I picked up fourteen white birds from a local enthusiast who was a bit overstocked. Total cost was $100 (plus some grief from my wife ). I actually bought thirteen whites and a splash. He just wanted it out of his loft, and I figured it can fly with the whites and no one will be the wiser. These birds are all squeakers that are unflown (ten to fourteen weeks old). I will be starting trap training this week, and hope to have them out on the roof of the loft within two weeks. I'll post updates and pictures when available.


*Update to my update to my prior update:*
I moved the hen and three+ week old baby into the pen with the bully bird and his wife. Here is a nice incestuous mess for you: The two hens are taking turns sitting on the eggs. The bully cock (who has shown no signs of his prior nasty disposition), is feeding the baby!  He is also sleeping in the nest box that I put the baby in. The baby is doing quite well. S/he will be four weeks old in a few days, and s/he is almost as large as the squeakers I am trap training.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

ptras said:


> *Update to my prior update:*
> 
> Yesterday I picked up fourteen white birds from a local enthusiast who was a bit overstocked. Total cost was $100 (plus some grief from my wife ). I actually bought thirteen whites and a splash. He just wanted it out of his loft, and I figured it can fly with the whites and no one will be the wiser. These birds are all squeakers that are unflown (ten to fourteen weeks old). I will be starting trap training this week, and hope to have them out on the roof of the loft within two weeks. I'll post updates and pictures when available.


let us know how those young birds work out.. I have always been told to get youngs no more than 40 days old.. they usually go out the first time at about 7 to 8 weeks old..and these are way past that.. some get strong on the wing at that age..so it will be interesting to see how it all goes.. perhaps older is not that problematic.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Well, usually the cock is the main feeder when babies are growing up while the hen incubates the new set of eggs. It is his "duty" so your observation should be natural.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

RodSD said:


> Well, usually the cock is the main feeder when babies are growing up while the hen incubates the new set of eggs. It is his "duty" so your observation should be natural.


I realize that, but the cock in question here is not the father of this squeaker. He doesn't have any babies himself yet, as his hen is currently on eggs.


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## Knoc (Jul 10, 2010)

I had something similar happen to me recently too. Weird thing is this bird also nested on the floor like yours. Anyway the mother had always been one of my best mothers. Took excellent care of her babies. I noticed with this last batch of hers, she was the only one doing the work to care for the babies. Then one day I went out to the loft and found the mother on the floor dead. I didnt look to be beaten up, and it looked perfectly healthy, I have no explanation for its death. 
The babies were 13 days old and the father didnt show any interest. So for the night I put a little extra hay in their bowl and figured I would start hand feeding them the next day. Next day I had my mixture all mixed up in a bottle for them to eat and noticed their crop was full but still noone was sitting on them. So I figured I would check throughout the day and check on their crop. It remained full. I checked them frequently for the next couple days and it was obvious that someone was feeding them. But still noone sitting on them. Each day I would add some extra hay to keep them warm. One evening I went to the loft to close up and finally seen the dad sitting on them, which I was happy to see. The birds now are about a month old and are doing fine.


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## doveone52 (Aug 3, 2009)

Knoc, I'm sorry about poor mama bird but glad the dad came through with the food!

Ptras, I have a cockbird like that who just loves to feed squeakers! He's in a wierd mating situation where the hen is in a relationship with a cock who treats her badly but while he's sitting on the nest, she goes out and buddies up with my sweet cock! Anyway, he is eager to feed anyone's squeakers. I have had babies who I've taken inside to hand feed but bring them to him once a day for home training and a good proper pigeon feeding!


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

makes you wonder about the pigeon milk and if he is feeding that when he needs too... like for his eggs that are getting ready to hatch..


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## doveone52 (Aug 3, 2009)

I've wondered about that, too. I don't think they just produce pigeon milk whenever they want to. Maybe it's like beaking-throw up to show your love!


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## rpalmer (Mar 10, 2011)

doveone52 said:


> I've wondered about that, too. I don't think they just produce pigeon milk whenever they want to. Maybe it's like beaking-throw up to show your love!


I agree. I think that with pigeons a "wet nurse" would be best. But if it works then it works and no one can argue with the results.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

spirit wings said:


> makes you wonder about the pigeon milk and if he is feeding that when he needs too... like for his eggs that are getting ready to hatch..


I'm guessing that one or both of the hens that are sitting the eggs will provide milk for the babies once hatched. So far, I have a happy loft with everyone getting fed.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

ptras said:


> I realize that, but the cock in question here is not the father of this squeaker. He doesn't have any babies himself yet, as his hen is currently on eggs.


That is awesome. That never happened to me yet. I have seen other hens feeding squeakers, but never the cock. Good cock then! Very good father.


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