# Found Pigeon/Dove - What to feed?



## rialize (Dec 28, 2005)

Greetings,

I found a young pigeon at the horse barn where my horse is kept. It was sitting in the middle of the arena. I watched it for about an hour, to see if the parents would come back to take care of it. I'm not sure if it was the parents, or not, but two adult pigeons came down and started pecking at it and pulling it's feathers out - they were trying to kill it. I've seen the same situation with other types of birds, and I've seen young ones killed before I could get to them.

Luckily, I was close enough to save this one. He's not injured, and seems quite lively at the moment. I am sure he is a young pigeon, but I am not sure what will be sufficent enough for his diet. Will he eat wild bird food, or should I stick with baby food and water? 

Here are some pictures:



















As you can see, I have him in an appropriate cage, with plenty of shavings so he can keep himself warm. I simply need some information on what to feed him... 

Thank you!


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Rialize and welcome to Pigeon-Talk! That's still a pretty young pigeon, and it probably isn't self feeding yet. You can offer wild bird seed or pigeon/dove mix and a non-spillable container of water. You'll have to watch closely to see if the young bird is able to eat and drink on its own. If not, you will have to feed it by hand.

There are lots of very informative threads here about hand feeding youngsters along with other important information about how to raise them.

Go to our Resouces section in the Pigeon Daily forum and have a look at the threads there concerning feeding baby pigeons.

Thank you for helping this youngster, and please keep us posted.

Terry


----------



## rialize (Dec 28, 2005)

Thank you for your help!

I know the first few days at home are very crucial with most wild animals rescued, and he is doing great so far. He is still quite lively, so I'm not too worried about his surviving.

What I'm worried for, though, is that he doesn't seem too interested in the food I've been offering him. I managed to give him some well-hydrated food, so I'm sure he's not going to become dehydrated.

One question: will he chirp when he is hungry, or won't he? Should I attempt to feed him even if he doesn't seem interested in food? I'm afraid that I won't feed him when he is hungry!


----------



## LondonPigeon (May 10, 2005)

I dont understand why the adult pigeons tried to peck and attack the baby


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

I downsized the pics. What a cutie.

After a day or so he will realize that you are his food source and he'll squeal and flap a wing for you to feed him. He looks
to be about 2 weeks old. You will probably have to hand feed him but start working with him with seeds. I've had hand raised babies to self feed at 16 days old. I'm sure more people will be here shortly to help you out. Good luck.


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Once the baby fully realizes that you are the caretaker and source of food and attention, it will peep, squeak, and wing twitch whenever you are near .. regardless of whether it is hungry or not.

You need to judge when to feed by when the crop is empty or nearly so. The crop is the area at the base of the neck, and it fills up as the baby eats and/or drinks. You want the crop to be plump and kind of marshmallowy feeling .. not full to the bursting point. As the food is processed from the crop through the digestive system, the crop will deflate or empty out. When it's empty or close to empty, feed again.

Terry


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

The baby is used to its parents feeding it, it is not weaned.

so you will have to be the parent for now.

This little one will need about 15 to 20 ml's of baby bird formula every three hours or so.

Please make sure the baby's feet are nicely tucked under him, he should be sitting with legs and feet under him. 

Here are some resources to find help:

http://aav.org/vet-lookup/

http://www.pigeons.com/prd.htm

http://www.tc.umn.edu/~devo0028/contactA.htm#il


Thanks for downsizing the pictures, Lovebirds


----------



## rialize (Dec 28, 2005)

Thank you all very much for your help!

Baby is doing great - I've been getting food into him whenever his crop is flat. This is much different for me, since I'm used to seeing the crop much higher up, on a baby robin, rather than lower, and covered with feathers! I also have a call in to a wildlife caretaker not far from here, to give me some tips as soon as possible. 

Once again, thank you all for the helpful hints. It's making this much easier on my nerves, and for the baby, I'm sure.


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi rialize,


Oh! what a little bright happy cutie...!

My own method with new-arrive youngsters, is to moisten my finger tips in warm water, and to gently (from the front) massage their Beak with my warm moist finger tips, while I say "ooooOOooo!" in a kind of low, slow voice.

This works to communicate to them that I will gladly feed them.

They respond instantly with both nuzzleing with their Beak, squeaking, peeping and flapping their Wings.

The only non-responders I have ever had were those with Candida. Even the otherwise ill or injured usually respond very well.

If they do not understand in their terms our desire to feed them and to oversee their well being, the visual presence or food and water alone may not mean anything, since for one thing, they have never seen food or water before to have any particular meanings or associations to attatch to it...they only know of being fed as a social-intimate gesture ad a visceerotonic experience, from their Parents.

So, once they nuzzle and squeak, I offer them some tepid water or electrolyte, in the hollow back side of a regular people-baby Nipple...guiding their Beak into it while I keep my finger tips on the sides of their Beak so they can 'feel' something there.

After they have drank, they are usually all wound up then, twirling circles with enthusiasm and flapping and so on, and then I go make some food for them.

If you like, you may use the plain old fashioned Malto Meal, Roman Meal, Corn Meal, or Ralston or other 'hot' Cereal types, mashed Graham Cracker even, combine them, add some small whole Seeds ( say 30 percent or something) ...but do not cook them, merely warm the formula made of these things and water, warm it in a cup, with the cup in a pan of hot water...do not microwave it because that can make for hot spots which can harm them.

OIf you can get some "Hagens Breeding Mash' or Kaytee or Loribush or whatever other brands of powdered baby Bird formula, you can use these of course, but your baby there will be self feeding very soon anyway, or with a little social-time-guidance and example, he will, and so for now, the small whole Seeds and other stuff will do just fine.

Make the formula to be about the consistancy of a Milkshake, and serve 'wrist temperature' in the hollow back side of a regular people-baby Nipple...

If you cut the mounting flange off, the central Nipple part is easier to use and for them to get their Beak into without the flange crowding their chin or neck.

Feed them till they are obviously about 2/3rds 'full' in seeing their Crop become proud...then, they nap, day dream, poop, do their Angel-Wing-Stretches, and lay around like a little boat on shore till the next feed time.

Offer tepid Water now and then in the Nipple, in case he is thirsty. If their Crop is not 'mushy-soft' they are thirsty.

I can send you more detailed care and feed info off list if you like, for which just write me from your regular e-mail, to mine...I am...

[email protected]

Consider also the addition to his formula of some basic pro-biotics and a little fine grit even.

Skip the wood shaveings, skip having any seeds or water near him for now, and use instead, some tee-shirt material or light colored rumpled towell.

Even though he is endothermic by now, I would still keep him warm, or allow him the option, for which, and in general, as far preferable to any cage, I have been very satisfied in the use for young Pigeons of 'The Squeaker Warm House' ...

It is a simple extempore which suits them very well in every way, and, makes it easy for you also.

I just spent ten minutes looking for the thread in which I explain and have a link to some images of it...!

Sheeeeeesh! where the heck is it? I will look some more...hold on...

Finally! I found it, after going through many (30 something) pages of past posts...

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=12888


( Only the top three images are germain to our present topic, so, do not confuse the subsequent images which were about a very old Pigeon Bird I had found...)


Anyway, this is a very good set-up for the solitary Squeaker, or, for pairs or even several at-a-time even. They stay put, and they like the arrangement. it is far closer to their natural predlictions than a cage would be.

Till next, I am exhausted now from looking for that page...!

Lol...

 

Phil
Las Vegas


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Anyway, though I did not say so explilcitly, a Pigeon youngster of the age yours is, will not tend TO eat or show any interest in what you think of as food or Seeds.

They are interested to be "fed" and to be fed, ideally, in some manner like-unto their natural one, which they were used to from their own parents, which is to say, to insert their little Beak into something you are offering in your hand, such as the hollow back side of a regular soft rubber people-baby-nipple...into which one has put their formula. It need to be from you as if a part of you...and not as something sitting there abstractly.


Filling the hollow side about 3/4rs full is easier for their foreheads staying clean...and keep your finger tips on the sides of her Beak as you guide it into the Nipple...she should 'gobble'..!


Phil
Las Vegas


----------



## rialize (Dec 28, 2005)

Update on the baby:

Baby is doing great! This morning, he finally began to respond to my efforts to feed him. He now chrips and squeaks whenever I am near, and also twitches his wing. He is definitely interested in food, now - he pecks at my hands when I have to refill the nipple. Thank you, *pdpbison*, for giving me advice. He started responding well, after a while, once I tried your method!

At the moment, I do not have bird formula (I will be getting some as soon as I can), so I've been feeding baby a mixture of pre-moistened seeds and baby multi-grain rice cereal, making sure it's about the consistency of ketchup. I always warm it a little before giving it to him - he seems to enjoy it.

Last night, I sat some seeds in his home to see what he would do. When I awoke three hours later to check on him, I discovered the seeds were gone, and not hidden in the t-shirts! Does this mean he's been eating them? If so, is it a wise idea to keep a regular supply of seeds in his home, so he can have them if he wants?

I was force-feeding with syringe before, by gently prying open his beak with my fingers and laying the food on his tongue, and am still doing so when he doesn't eat from the nipple. He seems to be slowly taking to the nipple, but sometimes avoids it. If he needs food, and will not take from the nipple, is it okay to keep force-feeding him?

I have a space heater near the cage, although not pointed directly at the cage, and far enough away to make sure nothing catches fire. He is always warm when I pick him up. So, should I continue providing heat this way, or should I change the source of heat?

Other than these 'mother worries' I'm having, I'm sure that baby will be just fine. He is very alert and curious about his surroundings. I thank you all very much for your help! Baby and I appreciate it!


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Rialize,


Ohhhh, very good...!


You are doing wonderfullly...!


Make sure the formula is about your own "wrist" temperature...if it is cooled less than that, the Youngster will not accept it.

"Ketchup" is maybe a little too thick...so, try for more like a good Milkshake or thereabouts.

Offer "tepid" Water too off and on through out the day...if his Crop feels other than 'mushy soft' he is thirsty, and should be given a drink. Do not attempt to offer any liquids by putting them into his Beak, offer warm-tepid Water in the hollow feeding Nipple...

If you do the "ooooooOOOooooo!" vocalizations, with every offering of food or Water, it will become your call to him to come and eat or drink, so you can make the call and he will come to you. Once he is flying, if you have kept up the hand feedings and hand offerings of Water, he will also come when you call him to get-a-drink or eat. This can come in handy for later in many ways, and for once you escourt him, as his adopted parent, to go outside and meet other Pigeons in some context of grazing or other.

If he is pecking Seeds, you may certainly put Seeds for him to peck. But for now, do not put so many that he could overstuff himself, which they will do...so, some little dish with enough seeds to fill him merely, and see from there how he does with it.

You can peck with him, on a Towell, at some lightly scattered Seeds..use your crook'd index finger to peck, and narrate in happy tones as you do so. A Towell makes it easier for him to grasp the Seeds in his Beak tip untill his skills at pecking have increased.

They like to have companionship in things, and pecking Seeds is one one where it encourages them to have someone else pecking also.

You do not need to bother getting any commercial formula really, the extempore of any kind of 'Hot' type cereal, Ralston, Malto Meal ( plain, NOT 'chocolate') or Roman Meal will do just fine, Corn Meal, or these combined, with small whole Seeds added, as he will be self feeding anyway well enough in another few days. And you can keep on with these in hand feeding maybe once a day or something as a way of continuing to have a useful motive and connection for when you may need it later...if you need him to come to you.

I only provide Water by hand with any Babys I raise who I know I will release...this way, even if they elect to eschew the hand feedings now and then, I can still call them and they will probably come to me, for a drink, or for the association anyway, lingering of food and drink.

Most 'people-baby' cereals have almost no protean and are a little too pasty, so...just use something with a little more texture if you can...for the short remaining time-being, and or for it's role more as a gesture than a needed nutrient source.

Get him some Grit...and, ideally, some real 'Pigeon Mix' Seeds, containing various dried Peas and other...see if there are any Farm or Feed Stores in your area who may carry some.

He will also wish to be exploreing soon, so, do consider the 'Squeaker Warm House' or some version of it even if with no heating pad, rather than a cage...it is much more Natural for him, and, for now, he will not go anywhere anyway, even if he was just on a table top on a cloth even...

You can skip any more attempts to force feed I think...he knows he can peck now, and so long as you offer some order of formula in the hollow Nipple that tastes good and is warm and not too thick, he will lkely be enthused enough about eating that, to keep doing so for some time.

Also, squeeze gently the sides of the Nipple as he is eating, so it rythmically closes against the sides of his Beak...also, he will subtley wish to sort of 'pump' as he eats, where, you can follow this motion and he will like it a lot better then if you are holding the Nipple still.

Just let him get his Beak into it, then lower it a little, then raise it a little while tilting it toward him, and see if you can follow his rythum and how far to move it and at what angle...he will show you if you, for you to follow, if your initiate the motion gently...

How are the poops?


Have fun..!

Phil
Las Vegas


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Yes, do leave some seeds and shallow spill-proof bowl of water. This will eventually create an interest and start him on the road to weaning.


----------



## rialize (Dec 28, 2005)

"How are the poops?"

Just 'perfect', as you described in an earlier thread, *pdpbison*!

Baby is loving his seeds, but he hasn't got the knack of the water dish, yet, so I'm giving him three nipple-fulls of water three times a day, as well as two of the formula I was feeding him before. I'll be getting grit tomorrow, for him. Should I just mix this in with his seed, or keep it separate? Also, how should I introduce him to the water dish?


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

rialize said:


> Baby is loving his seeds, but he hasn't got the knack of the water dish, yet, so I'm giving him three nipple-fulls of water three times a day, as well as two of the formula I was feeding him before.



hi rialize,

If his formula is a watery consistency, he does not need the extra water. I would add some human probiotics to the formula, however.

You can gently tip his head down to abowl of water, submerging only the beak, not nostrils. If he is ready to drink on his own you will see him ssuck the water in and swallow. If doesn't, it is just a matter of time, depending on his age/maturity.


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi rialize,


Too, there is no hurry on them leatning every thing right away...

Her pecking successfully takes most of the strain off of your needing to feed her, and, if she needs water, and likes it from you, then, that is a pretty easy one to do! 

Lol...

You can always offer tepid water in a shallow custard cup or the likes, and, she would drink from that now if you are holding it for her, like you do the Nipple. Then, you can set it down and soon she will drink from it on her own.

Bear in mind, usually they get all their food and water form their parents untill they are around five weeks or so, or, whenever it is that they can fly well enough to accompany their parents on grazing forraging excursions to begin pecking and drinking on their own...and for them, there is a lot of meaning to being fed and given Water...

Glad to hear it all goes well...

Happy New Year...!


Phil
Las Vegas


----------

