# Pigeon Sick - Please Help



## sriki (Jul 11, 2010)

I am Srikanth from India. One of my pigeon is sick from past 15 days or more. The following are the symptoms:

1. She is *Less active*. About 40-50% less active than before.

2. Eats and drinks on it's own but has less interest.

3. In the coop it sits with it's *feathers FLUFFED* and *tail bent down*.

4. Passes r*aw (undigested) millets* in the poop. BTW I feed my pigeons with finger millets. Poops are watery and sometimes whiteish fluid like stuff is observed. 

I tried 12.5 mg of enrofloxacin (baytril) per day for 3 days. No improvement or changes. Bird has lost weight and has become weak. 

I do not suspect any bacterial/viral infection since enrofloxacin made no difference and also all the other birds in the loft are active and completely normal.

Please help! I need suggestions from experts to save the life of this poor bird.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Have you ever de-wormed your birds?
I would bring her in and isolate her, put her on a heating pad (covered with a towel) set on low.
Have you checked her throat for canker? Could be a number of things. Most common is worm infestation, coccidia and canker.
When this happens to one of mine, I give them a dose (.12ml) of pyrantel (very safe wormer), and watch their poop. If its worm infestation, they will pass worms within 12 hours (and feel much better already)
Do you have a vet that can do a fecal?
You need to help her maintain her body heat. And keep hydrated.


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## sriki (Jul 11, 2010)

Msfreebird said:


> Have you ever de-wormed your birds?
> I would bring her in and isolate her, put her on a heating pad (covered with a towel) set on low.
> Have you checked her throat for canker? Could be a number of things. Most common is worm infestation, coccidia and canker.
> When this happens to one of mine, I give them a dose (.12ml) of pyrantel (very safe wormer), and watch their poop. If its worm infestation, they will pass worms within 12 hours (and feel much better already)
> ...



No symptoms of canker in the mouth. I had dewormed the bird 3-4 months back and found not even a single worm in the poop. I maintain my birds in a pretty clean environment and chances of bird infestation is also less. 

I suspect some problem related to digestion. I have seen the bird vomiting the grains many a times in the past 2 weeks. I feel that there is some pain in the bowel since she sits fluffed with nech pullled pack and tail pointing down.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

sriki said:


> No symptoms of canker in the mouth. I had dewormed the bird 3-4 months back and found not even a single worm in the poop. I maintain my birds in a pretty clean environment and chances of bird infestation is also less.
> 
> I suspect some problem related to digestion. I have seen the bird vomiting the grains many a times in the past 2 weeks.* I feel that there is some pain in the bowel since she sits fluffed with nech pullled pack and tail pointing down*.


That's usually a good indication that something is going on in the intestines.
Any chance you can get a fecal tested? Possibly coccidia or bacterial. 
If not, smz-tmp (triple sulfa) is a good antibiotic for both. Baytril won't do anything for coccidia.


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## sriki (Jul 11, 2010)

Msfreebird said:


> Any chance you can get a fecal tested? Possibly coccidia or bacterial.
> If not, smz-tmp (triple sulfa) is a good antibiotic for both. Baytril won't do anything for coccidia.


Unfortunately there is no facility to test the fecal samples here in my place. Can u suggest me the symptoms of cocci so that I can examine the bird?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

sriki... I understand, from other members in India, that medicine for birds is very lacking there. Your bird is showing the symptoms of coccidia. I don't know what medications are available to you, but you might try looking at a place that sells medications for treating coccidia in chickens.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Also, I would try to change the gut PH, by giving the bird probiotics/plain fat-free, sugar-free yogurt and or organic apple cider vinegar. Are those available at all where you live?

That would help temporarily get the gut PH back to allow good bacteria to grow and crowd out the bad ones.

Also, I would see about getting a real pigeon mix for them to eat.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Most importantly, as suggested already....isolate the Pigeon and keep him/her warm. Then go with some of the dietary supplements noted above. 

Then try to find an anti-coccidial (clazuril or diclazuril, for example).

Also, Doxycycline (aka Vibramycin) is considered a better antibiotic for gut sort of infections....


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## sriki (Jul 11, 2010)

Skyeking said:


> Also, I would try to change the gut PH, by giving the bird probiotics/plain fat-free, sugar-free yogurt and or organic apple cider vinegar. Are those available at all where you live?
> 
> That would help temporarily get the gut PH back to allow good bacteria to grow and crowd out the bad ones.
> 
> Also, I would see about getting a real pigeon mix for them to eat.


Apple cider vinegar is available. But can anyone suggest a medicine for cocci that is available in India.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

sriki said:


> Apple cider vinegar is available. But can anyone suggest a medicine for cocci that is available in India.


I use Albon. 
Can you list some meds that are available to you?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

*Sulfadimethoxine *is the active ingredient in albon so you can look for that.


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## sriki (Jul 11, 2010)

I am posting the pics of the sick bird. 



















I hope you get a better idea of the problem...


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

First off sriki...she needs to be offered supportive care. Please bring her in your house where you can keep an eye on her. Supportive care means supplemental heat, such as a heating pad set on low or in the very least a sock filled with warmed uncooked rice and put around her. It doesn't mater how warm it is where you live right now because sick birds are unable to regulate their own body temp and so they need to be kept warm.

She also needs to be on a softer surface, such as towel, for comfort. The waste cleaned up so that it does not accumulate around her.

If she is not eating, you will need to hand feed her.She should have water and food right by her so that if she's inclined to eat, she doesn't need to go far to find the food.

Keeping a sick bird warmed and fed can go along way toward helping them get and feel better although warmth and food alone are not a cure.

Based upon the droopy wing and undigested food,I would treat for coccidia.


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## sriki (Jul 11, 2010)

Doxycycline is available here in my place... Can I go for it? If so what is the dosage?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

You need to follow this advice FIRST:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f108/basic-steps-to-saving-the-life-of-a-pigeon-or-dove-8822.html


..and as Charis has said, the supportive care is very important, because birds can die of starvation and cold long before the disease is even treated.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Its always hard to guess without proper terst being done, but my first reaction was the same as Waynettes'- I've seen these symptoms when there are worms, especially the undigested seeds. Also, if those droppings in the picture above are the sick little ones droppings, there is no enteritis that I can see, which you would expect with coccidia. They don't look like coccidia droppings to me, but I can't see all of the droppings to tell for sure. 

When I have young birds that aren't digesting seeds, its often a problem with worms in the gizzard. The gizzard grinds up seed, so if there is a worm infestation there you'll see whole seeds in the droppings. The last bird I had with with this symptom needed a different wormer than my usual one to get rid of the worms. I had used moxidectin with no results, but the worms came out two weeks later when I used levimisole and praziquantel. The pigeon had both tape worms and many adult round worms-ropes and ropes of tangled worms came out. After that there were no more seeds in the droppings and the bird became well rapidly.

The posture of the bird does look like coccidia however, I can see why it was suggested. Generally, the tail down means pain in the belly somehwere.
I personally use amprolium for it (coccivet) if you can find it. You only use one drop and its extremely fast acting. But like I mentioned earlier, I've only encountered coccidia that was accompanied by diahorrea. Birds that have worms have have perfect looking droppings, with just intermittent cases of watery poops and undigested seed.


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## sriki (Jul 11, 2010)

Here is a pic of the latest droppings of the sick bird:


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Theres a bit of enteritis in that particular dropping; can you tell me, do most of them have the green runny part, or are most of them solid looking like the first picture? I normally see worse enteritis in birds that have become sick with coccidia, but this could still be a mild case. I almost always treat for coccidia in birds with enteritis where no tests have been performed by a Vet, as its a common killer in younger pigeons.

Charis mentioned a sulfa antibiotic earlier on that is good to use in these cases. There's a human equivalent of this antibiotic called `Trimethoprim' or `bactrim' that you could possibly get from a human doctor. It would treat a mild case of coccidia, and possibly even a bad case if given over ten days.

One other place you could look for antibiotics is the fish section of a pet store, if there is one near you? You may be able to find something like `triple sulfa', `Sulfa-3' , or `tri-sulfa'.

Anyway that would be a start...I hope you can find something.

PS. How long did you give enrofloxacin?


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## sriki (Jul 11, 2010)

Bella_F said:


> Theres a bit of enteritis in that particular dropping; can you tell me, do most of them have the green runny part, or are most of them solid looking like the first picture? I normally see worse enteritis in birds that have become sick with coccidia, but this could still be a mild case. I almost always treat for coccidia in birds with enteritis where no tests have been performed by a Vet, as its a common killer in younger pigeons.
> 
> Charis mentioned a sulfa antibiotic earlier on that is good to use in these cases. There's a human equivalent of this antibiotic called `Trimethoprim' or `bactrim' that you could possibly get from a human doctor. It would treat a mild case of coccidia, and possibly even a bad case if given over ten days.
> 
> ...



The above is the pic of the latest dropping that I observd just a few hours back. Those droppings seen in the other pic (along with the bird) are a few days old. I treated the bird with baytril (enrofloxacin) for 3 days (12.5 mg/day). This was done a week back with no success.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Ok, I see, thanks! If it was Salmonella I would have expected some kind of improvement after 3 days on enrofloxacin too. So with that ruled out, then coccidia, canker, & worms are the next most likely causes of a pigeon illness like this one, sometimes a combination of 2 or three of these.

I hope you can find some meds. Are human doctors expensive over there?


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## sriki (Jul 11, 2010)

Bella_F said:


> Ok, I see, thanks! If it was Salmonella I would have expected some kind of improvement after 3 days on enrofloxacin too. So with that ruled out, then coccidia, canker, & worms are the next most likely causes of a pigeon illness like this one, sometimes a combination of 2 or three of these.
> 
> I hope you can find some meds. Are human doctors expensive over there?


No signs of canker in the mouth. I guess chances of worm infestation is low. I strogly suspect cocci.

I hope I can get bactrim here since it is a human drug. I am going out now to get it. What is the dosage you recommend for the bird and how many times a day?


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

It will depend on the number of mg of active Sulfa medicine in each tablet. I don't know the general dosage off the top of my head but the way to administer it is to crush a tablet it into a powder (with a mortar and pestle if you have these?), and then add some maple syrup or honey....can you get maple syrup over there easily? Its a very good consistency for making up medicines from powder. Otherwise honey, or water if no other options are available.



When the crushed tablet is mixed up with the syrup, you will need a 1ml syringe or an eye dropper with measurements on it. 

We would have to give you the exact amount of syrup and dosage based on the exact strength of medicine you get....but we can do it.

PS. Just so you know, the way this drug works on coccidia is to interfere with the reproduction of coccidia parasites. It doesn't kill existing parasites, but the breeding cycle will end...so healing on his medicine can be a bit slow, say 7-14 days. Coccidia leeches the protein form the birds body too, so supplement with soaked dog food can help it regain its strength.

The drug I use for coccidia, amprolium, actually kills the coccidia parasites outright, so it works faster. I've found it good for very sick birds where the illness is advanced.

Here's some more info:

http://www.auspigeonco.com.au/Articles/Race_Form_Part2.html


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## sriki (Jul 11, 2010)

I am Really Sad to Say that the Poor Bird Passed Away  

Thank you so much for all your support but I couldn't save the bird. I brought the medicine and went to the loft and found the bird dead in the coop.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

I'm really sorry to hear that, she was a pretty thing and her droppings were not too bad.


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## sriki (Jul 11, 2010)

My other birds are also showing signs of something going wrong! Their droppings are watery and sometimes show greenish-yellow mucus as well. 

So should I start treating the birds for cocci now? BTW the good news is that both Baycox and Amprolium are available in one of the vet medical store in my city. I am going to bring them tomorrow.

So do you think should I start the treatment now so as to avoid any disaster in the future?


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Yes, I do think so. I have no experience with baycox, but Amprolium works well for coccidia. If coccidia is the problem in your loft, you will see the droppings improve quickly (ie firm up and start to look normal) after 1-2 treatments...its really good stuff, but be careful not to overdose, it can make them sick.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Sorry to hear about your bird sriki 
Yes, I would treat the whole loft as Bella suggests.


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