# King is probably a Queen!



## Miss-Sassypants (Sep 25, 2010)

Ok I have a problem.

At first we thought Krik-Krik was a she (my suspicion), but dad insisted it was a he (thus the crazy name), when Krikky grew older and started cooing at the mirror, I decided ok that's a he behaviour and we continued to think Krikky's a dude.

Almost two years later, lately, he (let's just call KK a he for now) has been absolutely loving with me. He has always been but this time, INCREDIBLY!!

He would nudge and preen my fingers every two minutes, follows me and insisting landing on my body, basically more attached to me than ever before!

At times, he will fly to my head and try to mate with me (I think). But in our culture, flying to the head is a no-no, and everytime he does this, I will slowly let him climb to my raised hand and bring him down to eye level and "scold" him. But he will be doing the hen-thing.

Where he bends down as close to the ground as possible, tilt his little butt upwards, just like sitting down, ready to be ridden on. Geddit? It's hard to describe - but it looks like a hen, ready to be mated on top of.

I will usually give a head massage, because I am clueless about pigeon's sexual activities (HAHA)... and I do not want to encourage egg production! I feel sad for Krikky, if it's a he or a she, I am sure he has his own sexual needs and as the hopeless human mate, I am unable to satisfy him! (LOL).

Is there any way to encourage celibacy in pigeons? Unfortunately for Krikky, he or she may have to be subjected to a life of a monk, or a nun. There is no way we can accomodate another pigeon and as much as I do spend every waking minute with Krikky (so he isn't lonely or deprived of attention), I cannot properly _mate _with him.

Ugh, what do I do? Are head massagers enough? I dare not touch anywhere near the body. I hope head massages do not stimulate egg production. I love the little fella and I wish to provide the best I can for him. Any advice is appreciated.


----------



## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Oh, Krikky sounds so adorable. I have watched the males many times getting close to the ground with the head very low and the belly touching the ground while the tail is up in the air - that's usually accompanied by very low, deep cooing and looks very different from the hens when they crouch on the ground to be mounted. I'm not sure which one Krik-Krik does. I guess the only way to know for sure (unless he lays an egg and officially becomes a she), would be to pluck a few feathers and send off for a DNA test. That way you'll know how free you can be with your affections. I'd think that either way petting and scratching on the head should be fine.


----------



## Miss-Sassypants (Sep 25, 2010)

Thanks Eva! He doesn't coo - he just sits there waiting to be mounted. So weird!

I have a few feathers that he has naturally shed. In fact, my entire house is full of feathers! Though I don't think there is any facility in Singapore that can help determine his gender.

So sad to think he or she is sexually deprived  I just want him to be happy!


----------



## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Had a little laugh at this,....
Bouncer does similar things with Freckle.
Due to his actions against Charlie & always trying to claim every bit of territory as his own, I am convinced that he is definately a he.
He and Freckle are continually following each other, He does the usual "mating dance" and kissing, then Freckle will bow down & oblige, they both fly & clap their wings afterwards, & he drives her to the nest (still no eggs yet) but then at times after his dance, he puts his head down & tail up and forcefully tries to get Underneath Freckle who acts totally uninterested lol.
Bouncer is always the noisy one, Freckle hardly ever makes a sound except a little "quack" now and again.


----------



## Miss-Sassypants (Sep 25, 2010)

Hahaha Bob! Is Bouncer a dude or a hen? It's a case of "I'm not sure what I am so I'm gonna try both!" hehe...

Isn't Freckle too young for these sort of things? They are so cute. Charlie must be rolling his eyes watching them, lol!

Krikky is even weirder. He flies on top of my head and does the bowing thing. I mean, if you're gonna bow, it should be _under_ right? But he wants to be ON TOP. No coos, nothing. Just one look at my face and poof he flies up on my head. Not a word of warning. Then do the hen thing.

Come to think of it. When Krikky is with us humans, he doesn't make a single sound. But when he's alone in his room - he sings his lungs out. He coos, boos and it sounds so melancholy - it's quite depressing!

But he's never done the dude dance....?? Both Krikky and Bouncer can join the _'Gender Unknown Support Group'_.


----------



## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

Careful children! This thread is becoming more and more sexually oriented, which is against PT policies. Who'd have thunk it? Pigeons with identity crisises.


----------



## Miss-Sassypants (Sep 25, 2010)

Lol! Krikky seems to enjoy little massages and demands more of it. Like Eva said, I'll just be careful with the affections just in case!

Sorry if this thread turned anyone on! Not my intention!


----------



## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Miss-Sassypants said:


> Sorry if this thread turned anyone on! Not my intention!


Well, pigeon people are crazy, but not that crazy I hope.....Right?


----------



## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

Miss-Sassypants said:


> Lol! Krikky seems to enjoy little massages and demands more of it. Like Eva said, I'll just be careful with the affections just in case!
> 
> Sorry if this thread turned anyone on! Not my intention!


Not too worry. You'll probably have more problems from Krikky.


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Miss-Sassypants said:


> Ok I have a problem.
> 
> At first we thought Krik-Krik was a she (my suspicion), but dad insisted it was a he (thus the crazy name), when Krikky grew older and started cooing at the mirror, I decided ok that's a he behaviour and we continued to think Krikky's a dude.
> 
> ...


I would think this pigeon if it was a hen would of layed eggs for you by now..so I think he is a he. JMO. too bad he can't have a pigeon mate.


----------



## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Miss-Sassypants said:


> Lol! Krikky seems to enjoy little massages and demands more of it. Like Eva said, I'll just be careful with the affections just in case!
> 
> *Sorry if this thread turned anyone on! Not my intention!*


Lol twice! I was a bit disturbed that the thread was even perceived by anyone as becoming sexually orientated.


----------



## Miss-Sassypants (Sep 25, 2010)

Ok boys, don't fight. Dave is a sweetheart and yes, he IS very nice, and Evan is cute and charming, though _slightly_ disturbed (lol, you know I meant that as a joke. Put the axe down. Hugs)

Back to Krikky. I'll take Spirit's word for it. Maybe he really is a HE. Just somewhat confused. It's almost 2 years and no eggs at all. 

Is this the season to mate or something? Lately he's demanding massages EVERY single day, compared to previous times, when it's only once in 2 months? Now, it's getting frequent. He does the hen-thing, I pat his little head, and he gets up, looks at me and "That's it??"

He is so very cute. Thanks everyone for your input!


----------



## Miss-Sassypants (Sep 25, 2010)

Here's some videos of Krikky if anyone wants to have a look at his Royal Cuteness!  Krikky and his antics

You can see the head massage in one video. Hopefully that won't stimulate egg production!


----------



## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

almondman said:


> lol I am a nice person. I think you called yourself "disturbed". lol just curious - what is gobsmacked?


Well, gob is slang for mouth, so smacked in the mouth lol
used colloquially as meaning an extremely sudden totally unexpected shock (which one would suffer if they were smacked in the mouth lol) 
or you could translate it with a smiley


----------



## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Hi Miss Sassy, So sorry, I only just found your thread; OMG Krikky is so pretty & cute, and I don't mean to sound weird but you have the most beautiful hands

PS. One of my male pigeons squats for his girl , and she likes to mount him too- its seems like a kind of play, or perhaps its how she tries to communicate that she wants to be mounted...its interesting trying to figure them out!


----------



## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

I watched all of Krikky's videos - he's so sweet and gorgeous and so totally spoiled. Love the birthday card, lol.

I know it's said you can't tell the sex of a pigeon just by looking out of context, but I find that I'm actually quite accurate when it comes to sexing my ferals. Some look 100% boy, others 100% girl, and then there are those who can go either way in both looks and behavior and you only find out when you see their mate. Krikky looks quite girly to me.


----------



## Miss-Sassypants (Sep 25, 2010)

Oh wow... so many deleted posts in here!  What did I miss???

Thanks Bella for the lovely compliments! You are such a sweetie! The next time I visit Australia, I would LOVE to meet up with you! We can hang out at the park and feed the ferals all day! 

Thanks Eva! Glad you like the videos! I think you are right. Krikky does seem very girly. He/She is just too sweet and cuddly for a dude! When she (?) preens my fingers, it's very motherly... but then again, Krikky hasn't laid eggs at all and it's almost 2 years... 

I dread the day she lays an egg. I am so worried. Heard all the horror stories about eggshells getting stuck in the bottom... so terrifying... I can't imagine my sweet little Krikky enduring that. Poor thing!

I hope if Krikky is a she (that's a new concept we'd have to adjust to! Lol), that she is impotent and won't have kids!

Thanks everyone for your time.

PS: Dave & Evan & Luke - hope you boys are friends now! Tsk!


----------



## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Its would be great to meet up with you in Australia some time Miss Sassy, and Eva too Fingers crossed!

I watched all the videos too, they made my heart turn to mush I haven't raised a baby pigeon to bond with me, but I remember the feeling so well from when I was child raising various birds...the total trust and loyalty, and the friendship. I miss it! It must be so nice to cuddle & skritch Krikky like that, knowing it won't cause any fear

Miss Sassy, does Krikky get grit? I think so long she/he gets a shell grit, that would be enough to keep eggs healthy?.


----------



## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

I'd love to meet the two of you too - and if you want to visit New York you're more than welcome to stay with me. You'll also get to meet my feral friends, who might not let you get much sleep past 5 am......unless you get up to feed them. They're not quite as spoiled as Krikky - nobody is - but I was told today by a rehabber that all the rescues I bring in are a little overweight. And they are free flying ferals!

Miss Sassy, how do you keep Krikky so nice and trim with all the spoiling? You must be very disciplined.


----------



## Miss-Sassypants (Sep 25, 2010)

Aww you both are super sweet! If only we could have a Pigeon Talk's Convention where all of us could meet each other! That would be really lovely!

_Bella_ - Krikky do get grit imported from FOYS. It's the normal pigeon grit so I hope it's enough for the little fella. It is really endearing to have Krikky's trust. He trust me with all his little heart (I'm so used to calling him a He so that'll remain until he lays an egg! Lol) He's so trusting, he'll do anything to get close to me. As long as his feet are touching any part of my skin, he is happy. If I'm standing at the sink washing the dishes, and he's roaming in the kitchen, he will walk those tiny little feet to my huge human feet, and sit on it. So I can't move at all. And he'll just sit there until I finish washing the dishes and pick him up. Too cute!
_
Eva_ - I do worry that Krikky is on the slim side. I've been comparing him to ferals and THEY look plumper than him!! Krikky eats peanuts every single day and yet still slim. Maybe that's how rollers are built?? Well, I eat junk food and mcdonalds every day and yet I'm the skinniest person I know... so maybe it's the same concept? Lol... I do try to fatten him up, but on the other hand, all his food are proper pigeon food supplemented with vitamins and minerals in the water. His daily food is on the healthy side (just peanuts as junk food as treats) so maybe that's why he is still so trim??

He doesn't like table scraps, he's actually quite disciplined so he doesn't try to eat the human food. He just look at the crumbles and kick them around. Lol

I would really love for all of you to meet Krikky! If you ever come to Singapore, you know who to call! HUGS!


----------



## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Two things:

First, my male pigeons often squat to be mounted by the females, or they switch positions during mating, so squatting is definitely not solely the domain of hens. 

Second: I have a single, disabled pigeon that most definitely considers me a mate. Up until this week, I was unsure of her biological sex. I've had her since she was a baby-- (she has a congenital dysplasia, so one of her legs sticks out and up, rendering her mostly flightless) -- she's just turned five years old. I have her with me a lot - her hutch is right next to my computer work station, and I have her out in a soft doggy bed next to me on the couch a lot-- she's very tame, and loves to be petted and cuddled. She also gets very broody, and sits a nest for me, bills my hand, wing twitches and coos for me when sitting, and so forth. 

I've always referred to her as "she" because her behavior (her gender) is very hen-like - -- but I'd always had my doubts about her biological sex, because she hadn't laid -- until this week! This week, to my utter surprise, I discovered an egg in her little fleece nest!

So, now I can be absolutely sure she is a hen -- though I have no idea why she hadn't laid before, since she has clearly considered herself mated to me for years now.


----------



## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

That;s her in my avatar, flapping in my face! 

I admit I am nervous about the laying -- her disability is such that she sits pretty firmly on her hind end -- she holds in her poops like a nesting hen (I have a disabled male who does he same thing -- he also can't stand up) and she has to flap up on a ledge or bowl in order to poop properly. I worry terribly about her becoming eggbound, and had always been rather relieved that she didn't lay.

Oddly, this time out, she only laid one egg -- I've been watching her really closely, keeping her on moist heat, giving extra calcium, etc., for fear that she was having trouble laying a second one ... but it has been a week, and she is her usual, feisty self -- so it seems that this was a single egg clutch. 

Most hens will lay without problems, but I worry about her because of her unique physiology.


----------



## Miss-Sassypants (Sep 25, 2010)

Wow! 5 years of not laying eggs and then poop! One came out! That's incredible! So they do take that long to finally realize their gender, lol...

If your lovely little hen can lay eggs and still be ok, despite her disability, it brings me hope that Krikky will be alright. It's so weird to think of the little fella as a she... we need to get used to that!

Five years is a long time for your little one, it's so wonderful that she is in such loving hands! Lucky little darling. Do you have pics on your profile? I'm gonna check it out now!

Thank you for the advice!! Hugs!


----------



## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Oh, I didn't mean to imply that he's skinny at all - I thinks he looks just right and very beautiful/ handsome. It's being overweight that's often the problem for house pigeons particularly those with owners that want to spoil them. I don't have a pigeon pet at the moment, but I know if I did, I'd have huge problems with that. I was constantly trying to stuff my last pigeon Pilio, but luckily he wasn't the glutton type. I think it's a trait in pigeons as much as in people - some would eat all day, while others eat just to satisfy their hunger.


----------



## Miss-Sassypants (Sep 25, 2010)

Hehe... That's alright! He _is_ skinny compared to the other ferals, it _is_ a fact, lol. Don't worry about it! I can imagine how spoiled Pilio was... do you have any pictures of the little dude from back then? Now, the ferals are so lucky for you to feed them in his memory.

One thing about Krikky is when he gets to play all day (the entire apartment for himself from 10am to 7pm), he "forgets" to eat... he'd rather starve than go back into his room to eat. Either that, or he waits for peanuts. So thus, the little frame, lol. Naughty little dude!


----------



## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

Hmmm! Maybe I need to try that. Forget to eat, and hold out for treats. I like that diet.  Now if I could just get ms. almondman to feed me the treats.


----------



## Shadowringneck23 (Jul 5, 2012)

*Bonding*

You should just bond with him, and he will be fine. As long as you keep him company, allow him flight time out of his cage, and treat him well, them you will do great. Head massages are a great way of showing compassion. Males usually perform courtship to their owners as a sign of love. You do not, and probably should not attempt to stimulate him sexually, unless of course it is by accident, or it just happens.


----------



## Miss-Sassypants (Sep 25, 2010)

almondman said:


> Hmmm! Maybe I need to try that. Forget to eat, and hold out for treats. I like that diet.  Now if I could just get ms. almondman to feed me the treats.


Haha! You don't need to diet Mr Almond! You are fine the way you are!

Shadowringneck - Thanks for your comment! Are you new? If so, welcome to PT!!


----------



## Shadowringneck23 (Jul 5, 2012)

*Thanks*

Yes, I just started yesterday. I am pretty smart when it comes to doves and pigeons, and have always wanted to be part of a dove-loving community besides the American Dove Association. You're welcome!


----------



## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

The only pic I have on here is my avatar -- I should put up some more -- I like to show off my lovelies! 

Psyche, the mystery-egg layer, is doing fine -- it really was just a one egg clutch. 

I know what you mean about getting used to calling Krikky a she -- we had one that we were SURE was male a while back, until she started laying ... takes some time to adjust, doesn't it?


----------



## jak2002003 (Jan 10, 2012)

I had a large group of ringneck doves in a small aviary and they kept having more and more chicks and they were looking rather cramped, so I decided to re home and sell them all and just keep one pair. 

But I make a bad mistake and feel really bad now! I made sure I was keeping just one male - female pair. I selected my best male and best female to keep - healthiest, best looking, most tame, etc.

The 'best' male bird was paired to another male bird for many months. I just figured it was because of lack of females. They would both bow coo and mate with each other and make a nest - but of course never any eggs! 

I thought he would be happy to pair up with the female. But I was so wrong. He is totally depressed. I never thought a bird could be depressed like that. I expected him to act down for a few days and then realise his old mate was not coming back - so pair with the female.

Well he looks like he will die! He stopped all his bow cooing, strutting etc. He was so healthy before. He has gone off his food and is loosing weight. He used to be the most handsome and neat feathered bird - thats why I kept him. Now all his feathers are messed up and his eyes look dull. He has lost interest in everything. 

When I let him out to have to free flight , he seems to perk up a bit. But once back in the aviary he just sits on a perch and gazes out into space. Its been nearly one month now and he is still depressed. The female is always trying to 'kiss' him and she will snuggle up to him, but he just ignores her.

I actually went back to the pet shop where I sold his mate and some young birds, but they had sold him already. 

I hope he gets over it! I feel so so bad. I think I underestimated a birds emotions. I know he is not physically ill, he breaths normally, his poop is normal, he is not fluffed up. Poor bird!


----------



## Miss-Sassypants (Sep 25, 2010)

Sorry to hear that Jak. Hope he recovers soon. I feel so sad after reading that. The two of them must be missing each other so badly....

I hope time will heal his pain. Just in case, do check for signs of illness as well.. you'd never know it could be physical ailment instead!

Good luck!

And Mini - Pysche is just gorgeous! I'm glad she's doing ok! Take care!


----------



## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Oh, Jak, that is a sad story about the mated pair  I hope your bird eventually overcomes his grief. I think the same-sex pairs mate with every bit as much devotion as the opposite sex pairs, at least based on what I've seen with my mated hens.

Miss Sassypants -- Thank you, about Psyche! -- I think she's gorgeous, too  She's laid two more clutches of eggs now, and she seems to be perfectly fine laying them ... she doesn't sit them very long though -- she seems to grow bored of them very quickly. 

I don't want her to lay too often, since that is hard on hens... but there isn't a lot I can do about it except leave the eggs in her nest and hope that slows down the time between clutches. At least I am not so worried now, since she seems to be able to lay with no serious problems.


----------



## jak2002003 (Jan 10, 2012)

minimonkey said:


> Oh, Jak, that is a sad story about the mated pair  I hope your bird eventually overcomes his grief. I think the same-sex pairs mate with every bit as much devotion as the opposite sex pairs, at least based on what I've seen with my mated hens.


He is much better now thank you. It did take him weeks to recover. He looked so depressed and stopped preening himself, so he looked a mess also. He lost a lot of weight as he did not eat much.

Now is is back to his old self. He is cooing, bowing and feathers back in good conditions and he is eating lots. I am going to buy him a nest basket and hopefully I can get some nice chicks off him and his new wife.


----------



## Miss-Sassypants (Sep 25, 2010)

An update about Krikky! He's been proven a She! Here is the latest story about her egg:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f24/congratulations-to-krikky-64611.html#post699127

Thanks to everyone who cared! Much blessings!


----------

