# youngsters flying alot less



## wildcatx (Apr 26, 2010)

I have a team of ten young white homers which are 11 weeks old. they have been out of the loft flying nearly every day for 7 weeks. they started routing very well early on and would be gone out of sight for 30-45 mins but in the last week to ten days this has reduced drastically to the point they come out and do very vigourous tight laps around the house for maybe 10 mins and then land. yesterday they flew for 20 mins or so a bit further but still within sight. today they landed after 5 mins?? they still do bursts of laps around the house on and off for an hour or so. they are fed the same amount, fed until the first few go to water, there has been no change in the routine, they appear very healthy.... i have wondered should i start to toss them but hadn't been planning to do this for another few weeks. any advice welcome...


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

I would start toss training to see how they react to that. Soemtimes a change in the routine can get them back up to speed. 

When they land after 5 mins do the trap or do they play in the yard?


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## wildcatx (Apr 26, 2010)

the trap is closed till i call them in, but they don't come down to the loft for at least an hour anyway. they hang about on the roof for a few mins and then fly for a few mins and so on, so they fly on and off the whole hour or so, but they have stopped routing...


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## Char-B Loft (Dec 28, 2008)

Birds will fly less in hot and humid weather so if this is your case you will have to let them out at sunrise...


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## wildcatx (Apr 26, 2010)

the weather has been hotter but was no hotter a few weeks ago when they routed well... they got out in the evening anyway so i don't think this is the reason....?


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## Guest (Jun 12, 2010)

if they were routing I see no harm in taking them down the road and tossing them


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

LokotaLoft said:


> if they were routing I see no harm in taking them down the road and tossing them


This was my first thought also.You should take them down the road a few miles. I asked about the trapping because there might be a predator lurking around and they're just coming in for safety but that doesn't seem like the case here.


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## Freebird loft (Jul 17, 2009)

How old are these birds? My birds are doing the same thing they're 5-6 months old and are mature, I'm going to seperate the sexes next weekend when I come back from vacation. Hope to fly my team double widowhood this year.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

wildcatx said:


> I have a team of ten young white homers which are 11 weeks old. they have been out of the loft flying nearly every day for 7 weeks. they started routing very well early on and would be gone out of sight for 30-45 mins but in the last week to ten days this has reduced drastically to the point they come out and do very vigourous tight laps around the house for maybe 10 mins and then land. yesterday they flew for 20 mins or so a bit further but still within sight. today they landed after 5 mins?? they still do bursts of laps around the house on and off for an hour or so. they are fed the same amount, fed until the first few go to water, there has been no change in the routine, they appear very healthy.... i have wondered should i start to toss them but hadn't been planning to do this for another few weeks. any advice welcome...


If they are rounting "very well" then you can take them down the road.


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## wildcatx (Apr 26, 2010)

they are only 11-12 weeks old, thats why i was unsure, i thought maybe they were too young to start tossing, i'll start training anyway and hopefully it will go well


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## Big T (Mar 25, 2008)

spirit wings said:


> If they are rounting "very well" then you can take them down the road.


Basicly, if you want them to exercise, time to move them down the road.

Have fun,
Tony


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

wildcatx said:


> they are only 11-12 weeks old, thats why i was unsure, i thought maybe they were too young to start tossing, i'll start training anyway and hopefully it will go well


I see what you mean, but not all birds are the same, instead of thinking of age now, which is wise IMO,and if your birds are flocking and routing anyway that is when you can start some road training, but still let them loft fly on their days off. we all need a bit a free time now and again, and a day off to take a bath and what not..lol..


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## wildcatx (Apr 26, 2010)

well i let them out a about 5 hundred yards away a few days ago to get them used to the basket and the process.... have just tossed tossed them 1 mile away, half an hour ago, am currently in a cold sweat, no sign yet.... watch this space!!


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

wildcatx said:


> well i let them out a about 5 hundred yards away a few days ago to get them used to the basket and the process.... have just tossed tossed them 1 mile away, half an hour ago, am currently in a cold sweat, no sign yet.... watch this space!!


they should be in shape to get home, with the routing and flying they have already done... just when you think they won't show they do... so keep watch... Im sure I don't have to tell you that.. when you see them come in your heart will grow even bigger for them...


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## wildcatx (Apr 26, 2010)

they showed after 45 mins, just when i was thinkin i must of made a massive mistake lol.... relief=immense!


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

wildcatx said:


> they showed after 45 mins, just when i was thinkin i must of made a massive mistake lol.... relief=immense!


been there done that..lol... pretty soon you won't sweat it any longer... but I always still worry some.. they are so good at what they do.. it is hard to believe sometimes. I would go to the same location next time, when they beat you home go farther out.


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## BlackWing (Apr 2, 2010)

When last did you De-wurm your birds? That could be a good starting piont.


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## wildcatx (Apr 26, 2010)

I havn't wormed them yet, they are only 12 weeks old... they have good chests on them and normal looking droppings. They get ACV or garlic every other day in the water. but if it is advisable that they are wormed this young then i will do so, I had been planning on vaccinating against PMV soon and treating for canker, cocci and worms in a few months time.

i tossed 9 today (i'm not road training my one and only hen), actually only 5 showed after 45 mins and the other 4 arrived 2 and a half hours later! god knows where they'd been, they seemed fine and trapped staright away. I'll do the same toss in a few days and hopefully they will get home sooner... thanks for all the advice


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## Matt Bell (May 5, 2010)

You didn't do anything wrong other than not taking them far enough. Time and time again folks want to baby the birds. Since they have already been routing they have flown well over the 1 mile toss you sent them on. They were simply out flying and exercising, once they got in the air they already knew where home was and had no need to hurry. Really if the birds are routing, there is no need in a toss of anything under 10 miles. There is a book out there written by Joe Rotundo on pigeons, his first toss is 50 miles and he does just fine. Also you probably are feeding too much may want to check into that as well.


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## wildcatx (Apr 26, 2010)

ah i think the feed is ok, they only eat once a day when they trap in until the first few go to water and late trappers don't eat that day... i see so many different opinions and training methods for pigeons, i suppose each to their own. If i err on the side of caution it's because these are my only ten pigeons!


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Matt Bell said:


> You didn't do anything wrong other than not taking them far enough. Time and time again folks want to baby the birds. Since they have already been routing they have flown well over the 1 mile toss you sent them on. They were simply out flying and exercising, once they got in the air they already knew where home was and had no need to hurry. Really if the birds are routing, there is no need in a toss of anything under 10 miles. There is a book out there written by Joe Rotundo on pigeons, his first toss is 50 miles and he does just fine. Also you probably are feeding too much may want to check into that as well.


Matt, we are talking about white homers here not race birds... the whites do need the extra time and training or you can lose them. racing stock is a different ball game. oh just to add, my birds do not fly as much in hot weather, and you can deworm them at 4 months old.


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## BlackWing (Apr 2, 2010)

I De-worm my babies at 28 day. I only treat for worms and nothing ells at that age. Worms can have a negative impact on the pigeons in training and health. De-Worm on a regular basis and you should not have any issues. Stay away from medication for YB and only tread the sick. Get rid of internal and external parasites on your YB’s and you will see them blossom 

I do agree with the rest of the guys that you need to get them out on the road but I suggest you do that 2-3 days after you de-wormed them. Let them loft flight as normal they will show you when they are ready for more. 

I think the day fanciers start recognizing the “feedback” that the pigeons give that day you will start having success in your racing loft. Same with feeding and training, the pigeons show when they are hungry or tired and need more/less food or rest


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

spirit wings said:


> Matt, we are talking about white homers here not race birds... the whites do need the extra time and training or you can lose them. racing stock is a different ball game. oh just to add, my birds do not fly as much in hot weather, and you can deworm them at 4 months old.


No train whites just as race birds get trained. That lets you find the future breeders and find the ones that return good. Whites have been neglected And that reduced there ability. They need to stay cultivated just as race birds Plus this person said they feed 1 time daily. That says perhaps the birds are over fed. Feed 2 times daily 1 ounce perbird each feeding. Feed after the birds are flown. And then if need increase crabs to give a little extra energy. There are good flying whites That fly just as long and well as colored birds. Then there are the ones that have just been bred for color and not cultivated to flying /racing standards. Those birds have lost there abilty And need that shot in the arm to regain performance. only way is to watch the breeding program Reintroduce stronger blood by either known good whites or color outcross to bring back there homing strenghs. THE sames happens in every color if they are not maintained and controled. this is part of the hobby/sport of pigeon keeping. The part that makes it interesting.


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2010)

wildcatx said:


> ah i think the feed is ok, they only eat once a day when they trap in until the first few go to water and late trappers don't eat that day... i see so many different opinions and training methods for pigeons, i suppose each to their own. If i err on the side of caution it's because these are my only ten pigeons!


 I think you are doing well by your birds there is no need to rush them in any reguard so I agree you should err on the side of caution til you feel they can do what you are asking them to do.. down the road just means you want them to get the idea that flying is good for them and building them up for further distances


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

re lee said:


> No train whites just as race birds get trained. That lets you find the future breeders and find the ones that return good. Whites have been neglected And that reduced there ability. They need to stay cultivated just as race birds Plus this person said they feed 1 time daily. That says perhaps the birds are over fed. Feed 2 times daily 1 ounce perbird each feeding. Feed after the birds are flown. And then if need increase crabs to give a little extra energy. There are good flying whites That fly just as long and well as colored birds. Then there are the ones that have just been bred for color and not cultivated to flying /racing standards. Those birds have lost there abilty And need that shot in the arm to regain performance. only way is to watch the breeding program Reintroduce stronger blood by either known good whites or color outcross to bring back there homing strenghs. THE sames happens in every color if they are not maintained and controled. this is part of the hobby/sport of pigeon keeping. The part that makes it interesting.



I agree, I try to breed better whites, but she only has the 10 birds, there is no need to treat them like racing stock, because she wants to keep as many as she can... so being cautious with them is resonable IMO.


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## Matt Bell (May 5, 2010)

Well what is the goal of the OP, that will help us in telling them what they should do. If their goal is to race, then you HAVE to treat them as race stock. If they want to run a white release business you have to figure out how far it is you are willing to take the birds to be released, when you want to start business etc etc and go from there. If they just want to have a bunch of 'pretty' birds to look at in the back yard you might as well just let them loft fly.


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## wildcatx (Apr 26, 2010)

the goal is to build up a team of whites for release and when the numbers are big enough, for racing, but realisticaly that'll be a couple of years away. I went out of my way to buy whites from racing stock and these are from the natural breeding station in belgium. I plan to train these up to twenty miles each direction, these are to my founding birds and will do release work but as i have only ten to start with i hope not to lose too many. i'm hoping to build up to about 20 pairs, and their young. i bought the best whites i could find because i like the look of them and because i want to do releases, but if my whites don't cut it for racing in a few years i would consider breeding in some colour. I will be buying some more when the next section of loft is built as out of ten i only have one hen so am going to try even out the numbers abit!


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## Matt Bell (May 5, 2010)

Wow, you managed to get only one hen out of ten pigeons? I imagine you need pretty good numbers in order to get the desired effect in the release business, where as in the race business you only need 1 bird to win the race. My advice would be to treat the release birds and race birds differently. I would suggest that you can go slow with the release birds, but train the racers aggressively if not you will likely end up with a lot of homers and zero racers. Just my 2 cents worth.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

OK sounds like you bought some workable birds. For breeding you will pair them and tes out there young. What family line are they out of. Far as racing You in those couple of years can raise several birds if the idea is 20 pair. That would be with 3 rounds about 120 young birds a season. Offers good selection after training. When and if you color out cross i recomend white cock over the hen as it saeem easyer to produce white And grizzle is a good color to work with as white comes back faster And you can use any color over grizzle where Agin grizzle cock over colored hen. Back then to white cock.


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## wildcatx (Apr 26, 2010)

cool, thanks for the advice.... 7 of them are commines(SP?), 2 jansens and 1 busschaert. all white execpt one with a couple of red feathers on the body. they come from a few generations of white but i was told the odd one comes out with some coloured feathers.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

wildcatx said:


> cool, thanks for the advice.... 7 of them are commines(SP?), 2 jansens and 1 busschaert. all white execpt one with a couple of red feathers on the body. they come from a few generations of white but i was told the odd one comes out with some coloured feathers.


Ok now this is different. The the 7 do you mean they are ferals or are they unknown homer strain. this would make a big difference.


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## wildcatx (Apr 26, 2010)

the 7 are a strain of racer/homers called commine or combine from the natural breeding station in belgium. deffo not ferals, and bred from a family of whites


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

wildcatx said:


> the 7 are a strain of racer/homers called commine or combine from the natural breeding station in belgium. deffo not ferals, and bred from a family of whites


Ok just wondering. Then you should be able to build them up. rember to keep records while breeding. And select the best flyers with attributes for your breeders as you go.


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