# How's make friends with a bratty boy pigeon



## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

Some of you know the story of lumpy if your my friend on Facebook
For those of you that don't its been a harrowing journey for the both of us
I got lumpy along with his sibling this summer
They were just little squeakers and someone had put them in a box 
Put trash bags on top of them and left them next to a dumpster
A very caring person found them and brought them to the Salem shelter who in turn brought them to me
I had to go to a wedding and I trained my volunteer on how to tube them
And care for the other songbirds I was raising
Well I didn't do a good job and she burnt little lumpy's crop 
He got small tears in his crop that one by one got infected and developed into 
Gross festering lumps that needed to be surgically removed 
Where the name lumpy came from
Finally he was healthy and weaned along with his sibling and another youngster that came in, so they all went into the pre release aviary
At the time I was dealing with crow after crow with West Nile virus 
So I was very careful to screen the whole aviary so no Mosquitos could get in
I didn't plan to release them until the first hard frost 
I missed small cracks
I went in one morning to find lumpys sibling dead 
And lumpy and the other piji were very ill
The other piji died that night but I was able to pull lumpy thru
I am pretty positive he had West Nile virus and I began supplemental hand feeding
I decided after all he had been thru I needed to keep him and keep him safe for the rest of his life
Lumpy began weaning himself again and his weight was good and stable
He wasnt the friendliest piji but did like a scritch n cuddle when he was in the mood
Month or so ago it all changed
He is very aggressive if anyone come near him 
Does his little war dance and bites and wing fu's if your hand is near
I let him fly around the house and he follows me from room to room
Like he wants to be with me
But when it comes to handling he either is mean or flys away
I still grab him a few times a day and force some kisses and scritches on him
I just can't resist loving on him
I'm pretty sure he is a boy 
I'm hoping he will get over his bratty ways, I plan to try to win him 
Over this winter, but if he still doesn't like people I will probably look 
For a closed loft or maybe possibly release him especially when I get babies in the spring 
Want to know if anyone has any advice on how to encourage him to bond
with us, especially me!!!
Only had one piji pet and she was raised by someone else and was over 9 when I got her, she was a love
I always have released or found homes for all the babes and injured guys I have rehabbed 
Help!


----------



## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

What a journey for Lumpy & you it was and still ahead to go.

Different pigeons have different ways to socialize. He is already social with you when he comes after you. That's how he shows you friendship and who knows, to him you might be a possible mate. It will be sad to release him just because he doesn't allow you to touch him. He is looking for your company and from this point of view, in my opinion, he is already a pet, never to be released.

How long he's been with you? I have 20 pets, pigeons, and none is the same.

Now all of them eat from my hand, but not all of them trust my hand 100%, unless i reinforce this behavior every day. They do not like to be petted, only the females that stay on the eggs i taught them to trust my hands by putting their beak between my fingers and now they allow me to play with my fingers around their neck ( similar with preening). And they love it..they give kisses to my fingers. Mind you, these are females who have no partner ( we're short of males)
The boys on the other hand will not allow me to pet them, but all of them come on my shoulder and if i talk softly they let me kiss them ( but watch out, when they are not in the mood, they peck at my cheeks and my ears). One of them doesn't peck, but slaps me behind my head if i try to kiss him. That's rude of him. LOL
I have two which are about 10 months old. and till 2 weeks ago would never come on my shoulder or their favorite place, my head. I decided to spend time with them late in the evening when it's time for them to sleep, by giving them treats. All the lights were off except the light close to them, so they had nowhere to fly. I would offer my hand with seeds, some would freeze, some will bite hard ( soooo hard... but i had to be patient). Usually they will bite, even the ones who would stay still or growl or slap as long as my hand got close to their chest. Eventually they get tired of biting or may be they thought they conquered my hand and they give it a try by eating the treat, but from time to time they will bite again to make sure my hand "listens" to them. Now these pigeons from time to time out of nowhere fly on my shoulder or head, but as soon as i move they take off. But i am happy that when it's time for treat for all of my pigeons, they come shy on the floor ( the girls are always on my knees and hand and shoulders and a few boys) wait for me to give them treats.
It's all about conditioning. B.F Skinner, who was psychologist, behaviorist (plenty of videos on youtube and studies you can google them) shows how you can condition a pigeons with food. With his works with pigeons he demonstrate that same behaviors apply to people but but with different "treats".


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Hi Jodi. I have been having the same problem with that little brat I got from you this past summer. He's pretty, but not friendly. He was terrible for quite a while. He would growl at us when we approached his cage, which was in the kitchen, so one would think he would have gotten used to seeing us. When he finally went into the loft, he would take a high perch and growl at me the whole time I was in there. I got so tired of that, that I brought him in the house again, determined to tame him up a bit. He is the most difficult bird that I have had. Bringing him in didn't help, as he didn't like being caged, and when we let him out in the living room for exercise, he would attack Scooter, and try to knock him off his perch behind my computer chair. Poor Scooter didn't know what was going on. Anyway, I think being inside was worse for him, so I put him back in the loft and figured we'd try from there. He went back to his growling at me when I went in there. He would fly crazy if I went anywhere near him, and get all the others going. Then he mated up with one of my favorite little hens, Rascal. I wasn't crazy about that, as I love her, and she is very friendly with me, and has always been. I was afraid he would have a bad influence on her, and she would move away from me. But just the opposite has happened. She is still my baby, and although he kept his distance for quite a while, he eventually started coming to me for treats with her. He is slowly learning to trust me. He hardly ever growls at all any more. And I can get close to him now. I would never grab him to hug him, as that would hurt the trust, but I can reach into his box now when he is in there and put treats in his dish. This took forever. I pretty much ignore him, other than to put my hand up to him with treats. But he will take them now, and he is lots calmer. At least your bird follows you around. Dusty always wanted to be as far away from me as possible. Just letting him learn to trust me, and know that I wouldn't grab at him, and by letting him come to me, has made such a difference. Your bird will probably come around more and more. Like I said, at least she does want to be near you. But you need to just let her come to you. She needs to learn to trust you. In time, I think she will. I have taken in so many rescues, and eventually they do normally come around. Like Dima has mentioned, they do all have their own personalities, but most don't like to be held................they like it to be their idea, and in their time.
Scooter, on the other hand, will sit in your hand and fall asleep. He just loves cuddling.
He says "HI", by the way.


----------



## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

I guess we were lucky with Mamacita and scooter
Lumpy is young was born this summer, would have to look up his paperwork to get an exact date
Only reason I would consider releasing would be if I couldn't find a home with other 
pigeons
I wouldn't release him alone either, I will for sure get more babes in the spring
I don't want him to live a lonely life, and I have no plans to keep anymore
After Mamacita I knew I would eventually have another as a pet, but not until there was a reason it couldn't be released and was a piji that liked people
Was like a switch got flipped the way he changed, he had so many medical problems and had to be medicated for long that I'm sure that didn't help Once he didn't need me for feedings it was over
Will try the treats with him, trying to get him eating pellets so I give him very little seed, mbe if I offer some in my hand he will like that
I love that little brat!!


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

They usually love safflower, or chopped peanuts. The thing with the peanuts is getting them to try them, as they don't recognize them as food at first. Once they try them, they usually love them. I mix some in with a birds feed cup in order to get them to try them. Even Dusty will follow me around, at a respectable distance for the peanuts. He also loves a a treat mix I do with hulled sunflower, safflower, and hemp seed. Any of those would work on your bird, once he tries them. Just leave them where he will. Good luck with him. It can take a while with some.


----------



## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

Here's a little video of my brat being a brat
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?featur...ch?v=tT4oqsgkBYk&feature=youtube_gdata_player


----------



## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Wow. You are touching him and invading his territory that's why he pecks at you.


----------



## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

I was there first!! Lol
He came to snoop what I was doin
He is like that everywhere in the house


----------



## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

I guess he never gets bored with so much curiosity. 
Good for him, that way he never gets the chance to feel lonely..to busy snooping around.


----------



## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

He is very curious to what everyone is doing 
I don't cage him ever, do you think that may be part of the problem?
Is he trying to be boss of the house?


----------



## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

No this is not the problem. All is about food. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgOa04YWSSc
You can reinforce the feeding from you hands with touching him with the other hand.
Make sure he is hungry first. Then offer the hand with seeds/treats and have the other hand also in front, by the hand with seeds. When he comes to eat from your hand, he will be shy initially, touch him gently with your finger on the chest and open your hand with seeds only when he allowed you to touch him. If he doesn't allow you and steps back, close your hand with seeds. This must be repetitive and it reinforces his behavior regarding getting seeds when you allow to touch him. It is called positive reinforcement...If you cage him in order for him to submit to you, then that's kind of negative reinforcement.


----------



## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Dima said:


> No this is not the problem. All is about food.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgOa04YWSSc
> You can reinforce the feeding from you hands with touching him with the other hand.
> Make sure he is hungry first. Then offer the hand with seeds/treats and have the other hand also in front, by the hand with seeds. When he comes to eat from your hand, he will be shy initially, touch him gently with your finger on the chest and open your hand with seeds only when he allowed you to touch him. If he doesn't allow you and steps back, close your hand with seeds. This must be repetitive and it reinforces his behavior regarding getting seeds when you allow to touch him. It is called positive reinforcement...If you cage him in order for him to submit to you, then that's kind of negative reinforcement.


I just tried a few min ago with my rescue feral Pij. Do not use your both hands only the hand with seeds. She eats all day but she likes the treat of sunflower seeds ( no shell on). I gave her my hand with seeds slowly. She bit me. I closed my hand, opened hand and with tip of my fingers touched her chest; she bit me again. i closed my hand, then opened and touch her again, after about 15 trials she bites me only when i close my hand and when hand open lets me touch her chest with the tip of my fingers without biting , but she won't eat. It's a start.


----------



## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

I tried today and he just bit my fingers repeatedly 
Tried to move my hand so he would accidentally get seeds
I will keep trying, sigh...


----------



## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

We posted in the same time. I just updated the " exercise".


----------



## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

He is a brave birdie
Will keep trying with him


----------



## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

I just did the second time the exercise with my rescue. And here's how far i reached:eating seeds from my hand. I noticed that better first keep my hand touching her chest, rather than moving it on the chest ( she was getting nervous while eating and my hand moving). With time she even will climb on my hand once she gains trust.
http://s1257.photobucket.com/albums... leg Pigeon/?action=view&current=MOV05239.mp4


----------



## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

Will have to watch it later, for some reason I can't see photobucket stuff with my Itouch


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If I offer treats and if they peck and bite like that, I leave that bird and feed the others. I will go back to him, and if he bites again, I leave. He doesn't get any. When I offer treats and he doesn't bite, then he will get them. This teaches them that if you bite, I leave. If you're nice, I give you treats.

I think your way teaches him that he can still act aggressively and he will still get them, when he stops. You may close your hand with the treats, but you keep offering them even though he has been biting you. Besides, I would rather they come to me because they want to. I don't force the issue. I doesn't take long with some. With others it takes a lot longer, but I have time. The bird views you as a predator, so he's acting defensively. I would rather mine figure out that I'm not a predator, and learn to trust me and want to approach me.


----------



## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

Lumpy does have his tender moments
Doesn't start out perfect
But I cup him in my hands and rub his ears n face
He begins to relax and enjoy it
Can kiss him and nuzzle him with my nose
I sure hope these "teenage stage" ends and he calms down a little


----------



## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

altgirl35 said:


> Lumpy does have his tender moments
> Doesn't start out perfect
> But I cup him in my hands and rub his ears n face
> He begins to relax and enjoy it
> ...


LOL, you're doing what my BF does. But when the males do not feel tender he gets all the pecking on his face and especially ear when he turn his face away.

Jay is right..The best is to have them come to you and trust you 100%. It takes lots of time and patience.


----------



## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

He has no reason to distrust
I raised the little poop
I think that's why he thinks he can kick my ass
He's not afraid of me at all!


----------



## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

altgirl35 said:


> He has no reason to distrust
> I raised the little poop
> I think that's why he thinks he can kick my ass
> He's not afraid of me at all!


Ha - ha - ha You cannot boss around Lumpy. He 's got his mind set already!


----------



## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

He the boss except when yaya the umbrella cockatoo is out 
She is the true queen of the house


----------

