# Hawk Attack



## billgarb (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi All

On Friday I left my Rollers out for their first time, all 2011 birds that had not yet been free of the loft. I opened the trap door to their fly pen and sat in the yard correcting some papers. It was a beautiful day in western PA, sunshine, clear skies, and about 75. As I kept my eye on the loft, one by one four of my seven adult Rollers flew to the open trap door, hopped up to the roof, and after looking around, fluttered around the loft but quickly developed their flying skills and buzzed around the neighborhood, settling in the trees. Things were going fine until about an hour later, 3PM, when a Cooper Hawk attacked one of the low flying birds. Fortunately, I was watching the bird as it was attacked. The Hawk knocked the bird to the ground and made a quick turn as I have seem them do too often and went for the downed bird. By then I was on my feet running to the bird and screaming at it. The Hawk flew off and the bird bolted away just as quickly. Fortunately, that was the end of the crisis and all four birds returned to the loft. The victim of the attack had lost a few tail feathers, but was unharmed. I have been curious about the experiences others have had with attacks from birds of prey and would like to know when, where, the type of predator, breed of pigeon, time of day, and altitude that the attack took place. Would love to hear from you. Bill


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## shakilfc009 (Mar 15, 2012)

be careful.......


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## The Pigeon Girl (Jul 3, 2010)

One of my pigeons I use to have named baby, she was an Armenian High Flier had raised her from a baby . so she was tame. I let her fly circles around our house , and she bolted down the street, Im thinking out of fear.. soon the hawk was after her , I chased them down the street. he caught her in mid air, but I was able to scare him off, he dropped her in mid air. she was purfusely out of her left eye. he took her eye out. she managed to make it half blind.. things went well till about a year ago, something killed her...that bird was the best bird I've had. loyal as a dog .


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## checkered (Dec 24, 2005)

You can try letting them out on different time of day so pattern is not predictable. And mostly before it get's dark and make sure they are hungry so they can easily be called in.

Having said that, even though you change time of day for flight, you can't still avoid hawks as some of they hunt different time of day.

I was really nervous and watchful whenever I'm letting them out. But now my pigeons somehow learned how to evade hawks and honestly they fly over them when the hawks are close by on trees.

I also noticed during toss training, I will let them go with sometimes more than 1 hawk at the spot I release them, but my pigeons are not afraid of them anymore.

I think the pigeons as time goes by, will develop skills or adaptations to fly and evade birds of prey.

Although if the pigeons are inside the loft and on the ground it may be a different dynamics.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

flying pigeons = hawk visits.there is no predicting them and you will lose bird/s at some point. sorry to say.


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## pouterfly (Apr 16, 2012)

Hi Bill - when we decide to fly our birds, it's inevitable that sooner or later the hawks and falcons will be after them and some folks have it far worse than others. Pigeons have always been a prey species, no difference if they are wild or domestic, and once we turn ours loose for a fly they become just another potential opportunity for the birds of prey. And the more compromised they are, both physically and mentally, the easier they are to catch.

There's ways to cope, one is keep them locked up when there's hawks or falcons around. Another is to breed lots of extras, the stronger and smarter ones will survive, no different than what's always gone on in the wild. I have Goshawks and Cooper's after my birds regularly but I develope my lines similar to what goes on in the wild, and most of my birds are capable of looking after themselves. I keep flying pouters now, check out my album, and the flock maintains itself no different than the farmyard croppers found in Europe. This one is typical of the type I fly.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Did you double-check to make absolutely *sure* your Pigeon has no abrasions, lesions, anywhere ? It only takes a claw scrape to infect a Pigeon and they will die if not treated w/ antibiotic w/i about 3 days of being infected.

I would say that hawk has been casing your loft...if not, he will be now.

You need to fly 'em at a different time of day and be super-vigilant. In a 'fortunate' way...g#damn coopers are too small to lift a captured Pigeon, usually...so they try to kill and eat on-site. This is where you can save 'em...and you did a good job. But really, DO check on that pigeon. If there are feathers missing, I would be inclined to play it safe and do a week of antibiotic treatment, orally ~ not in drinking water.


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## billgarb (Aug 26, 2011)

Thanks for your comments. I was able to call them in about 5PM and three out of four, including the bird tha escaped the attack, returned. afourth bird decided to hang around in the trees until morning when it returned to the loft. I put one of its 4 wk old squabs in a cage in the fly pen so that he could see it and also placed some feed on the landing board. It trapped without incident. 
As these birds gain experience they will learn how to fly high and scatter upon an attack. they can out climb a hawk which is one means of escaping. However, sooner or later they have to come down. I once dealt with a hawk that waited patiently for my Rollers to tire of flying and begin to settle on their loft roof when it attacked. It was apparently smart enough to figure that a tired bird was easier prey.


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## pigeon-lover0 (Apr 1, 2012)

Just to say. If you consider the pigeons as pets prepare for heart-break. Flying pigeon almost always ends up in a death of a pigeon.

Lucas


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Jaye, I have no idea what coopers hawks you are referring to, that can't carry a pigeon off, but around here, it is very common for them to do just that. They do it all the time. The coopers from the western part of the country are a bit smaller that the coopers in the East, but people there have reported watching them cart off a pigeon.


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## billgarb (Aug 26, 2011)

I have seen Cooper's Hawks lift a killed pigeon and carry it off for perhaps a hundred feet and start to eat it. The female Cooper's Hawk is larger and more powerful than the male and can lift a small pigeon like a Roller and remove it a distance from the kill site.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I've seen them take larger birds.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

The cooper can and does cart off a pigeon size birds. The thing is allot times you can save the bird because they ground the pigeon first and then go for the kill. sometimes sitting on the ground with it for a spell and once it is ripped and dead it can cart it off if they think they are being watched, I have saved a few birds just by running to them when they ground them and scare off the cooper and grab my bird or sometimes the bird flys off to the loft with just a scratch. but the thing is you have to be out there to know what is going on. most can be saved if you see it happen right then and there.


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## pouterfly (Apr 16, 2012)

billgarb said:


> However, sooner or later they have to come down. I once dealt with a hawk that waited patiently for my Rollers to tire of flying and begin to settle on their loft roof when it attacked. It was apparently smart enough to figure that a tired bird was easier prey.


Bill I deal with this problem all winter with a Goshawk. When this hawk shows up I lock my birds up for a day or so, hoping he will move on. But a wintering hawk is more desperate for food and knows that sooner or later the pigeons will re-appear. Typically he will arrive at full speed, using the big trees in the yard to conceal his approach, then scatter my pouters, single one out and begin a high speed tail chase. My experienced birds will usually outfly him, so he returns to sit in one of the big trees near the loft and wait, just as you describe. The trick then becomes a matter of can the pigeon get back into the loft safely. I stand at the loft with the entry door wide open, and the experienced pouters will drop out of the sky like a rock, zip through the door without hardly even braking, and into the safety of the loft. One by one they return this way and outsmart the Gos. More often than not the Gos leaves my yard empty handed, and my pouters have made him look foolish.

This is one example of how I've successfully adapted to intense Goshawk predation. Here he is, waiting above the loft.


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## checkered (Dec 24, 2005)

^^ I agree with pouterfly and what others mentioned here.

Once the hawks discovered your loft and start casing it, it will just keeps coming back coz he knows where the food is.

When I first started my loft I didn't have a single hawk issue for about 6-7 months maybe because it's in the middle of the city. But once they discovered it and have a blood taste, now it's a daily thing.

Hawk stalking my neighborhood sometimes wee hours of the morning up to 8 at night. Yes I was surprised it's there at early morning and stalking late hours before night time.

They are now acting up like crows...I just need to be more watchful and I believe the pigeons adapt a little bit as they watch their backs and functions as a group. They are more attentive to their surroundings.


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## PJ1969 (Jun 5, 2011)

I guess i live in a lucky area here in australia we have these little wattle birds (a type of honey eater) that act as the air raid sirens then we have what i call the interceptors the australian magpie and the pee wee (magpie lark) that mob the hawk and by the time all this happens my pigeons have all dived into there coop nice and safe ive only lost one bird in five years


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## pouterfly (Apr 16, 2012)

These "early warning" species are indeed important to pigeons that are meant to be properly adapted to their surroundings. Pigeons that are hunted often by birds of prey learn quickly to use these cues to their advantage and are able to get airborn a couple of critical seconds earlier, which in many cases means the difference between success or failure for them. I've noticed that pigeons that don't have to worry about avian predators behave very casually in their comings and goings, whereas pigeons that are often attacked behave very differently. These birds are "mentally conditioned", they're always on the alert, constantly paying attention to the often subtle clues that warn them danger is approaching. I fly open hole, and when my birds are out you can see they are always watching and listening, almost always there's one or two on the roof top as sentinels to warn the others that are busy pecking on the ground or in the bath pan, of approaching danger. 

Awareness to these often subtle clues is just one of the components of properly adapted pigeons. Another is flying the right breed, another is appropriate physical condition, another is knowing when not to fly, and another is teaching them to get back into the loft when the pressure is really on.


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## billgarb (Aug 26, 2011)

I lost a young roller today to a coopers hawk. Unfortunately, I was more concerned about mowing the grass than watching my pigeons and when I glanced around the yard to see were my birds were, I saw a hawk standing on one of my young birds. It was too late. I chased the hawk off so it didn't get its meal, but my bird was dead. I guess I learned a leason, watch the flock or mow the grass, but not both. My birds stay close to the loft and I may have been able to chase the hawk off before it killed the bird as I have done bfore.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I'm really sorry. That's too bad.


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## LilBirdy (Apr 24, 2012)

where i live there is alot of mocking birds, they sing their heart out.i think they have the most beautiful song of any bird and they let you get really close to them. One day i was inside and i heard this distressed screaming noise i went to find where it was comeing from.i went to the slideing glass door and saw my cat on the rail staring at a huge red tailed hawk in my yard with a mockingbird in its clutches.I ran to it to save it and make the hawk let go but the hawk flew up taking the bird with it talcons.i was really sad.the mocking bird was really small for such a big hawk and that bird could of easy took a bigger animal ,cat ,small dog or bird.about a week later i went over to buy a couple birds about 2 miles away from me and the guy just started to let some of his birds out to fly.within about 10 miniutes of us standing out there talking Pigeons, red tails started showing up. first one then three more. I was concerned but he told me his birds will fly up high where the hawks wont get them . But he did tell me that one year he had to stop flying them because the hawks killed several of them. I cant let my birds fly outside to many predators adding red tails ,kids with sling shots(boy was he surpised he didnt see me sitting on the bench when a rock flew by me and hit my flight cage,i turned to see a boy with his slingshot and then he saw me and he took off running and i was right behind him.I walked him up to his mother and told her what he did and he has no more slingshot) and you know the cat lady ..i have the cat guys for neighbors who are really nice people and they have a few cats and they feed cats that have lost there way for one reason or another, i always find one or two of them to come over to check out the birds. when i come outside they go home .i hope when i move i can let my birds fly in that blue thing we call a sky.


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## Lynnlewflew (Oct 28, 2012)

*Pigeon vs hawk*

I just lost 2of my pigeons to a hawk. I have a gate that allows pigeons to come and go. It has steel swing bars that if I leave the center rod up they can come and go and seems to keep most predators out. but not this week. Found one dead bird half eaten inside and the hawk outside. I believe he couldn't fit the bird through the gate so he ate some and left. Then I watched as he grabbed one more and left. Can anyone suggest a different kind of gate the hawks can't get in. My birds are so happy coming and going. Where I live the hawks come down from the mountains in the fall and will stay til late spring. Then they go back for the summer in the mountains.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Anything that allows pigeons to go in and out will also allow a predator to go in. You are lucky that he found his out, as some have had hawks that couldn't find their way out, and they just killed a lot of birds while trapped inside the loft. The only way to keep predators out is to be there. Open loft just isn't safe.


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## Lynnlewflew (Oct 28, 2012)

*Hawk attack*

I've had an open loft for 4 years I had a young hawk caught in my aviary last year he had killed 2fleglings. I scared him so he didn't return last year. But he may be back this year to try again. bummer!


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## mikeyg (Jul 11, 2012)

pouterfly said:


> These "early warning" species are indeed important to pigeons that are meant to be properly adapted to their surroundings. Pigeons that are hunted often by birds of prey learn quickly to use these cues to their advantage and are able to get airborn a couple of critical seconds earlier, which in many cases means the difference between success or failure for them. I've noticed that pigeons that don't have to worry about avian predators behave very casually in their comings and goings, whereas pigeons that are often attacked behave very differently. These birds are "mentally conditioned", they're always on the alert, constantly paying attention to the often subtle clues that warn them danger is approaching. I fly open hole, and when my birds are out you can see they are always watching and listening, almost always there's one or two on the roof top as sentinels to warn the others that are busy pecking on the ground or in the bath pan, of approaching danger.
> 
> Awareness to these often subtle clues is just one of the components of properly adapted pigeons. Another is flying the right breed, another is appropriate physical condition, another is knowing when not to fly, and another is teaching them to get back into the loft when the pressure is really on.


You nailed it...

In the last 2 months here in Sacramento the Cooper Hawks have been out of control, they are master stalkers no matter how you prepare. They are ruthless hunters when they have babies to feed, and there ability to seek out a food source and adapt to YOUR schedule is amazing, along with their patience. Whether you let your birds out early, mid-afternoon, or late they are always a target.

Luckily I have not lost a bird this fall to a hawk, but it could happen. I have had some close calls, but my birds are fast. Also my birds have really seemed to adapt in the last few months to the hawks, they are aware of their surroundings, and as soon as the loft is open they are gone, no roof sitting, no pecking at roof gravel. 

I have noticed during these times they fly very high quickly and will leave the area within a matter of minutes. If I do have any young birds out just hanging around and they are very sketchy going back into the loft for no apparent reason, and I am fine with that, they are getting conditioned They also have learned the flying pattern of other birds and and can quickly decipher the difference. 

I have seen mine scatter simply by catching the glimpse of a hawk at high altitude soaring around. I also try to be outside during the time any young birds are sitting about. Even a sec or two head start on seeing a hawk swoop in can give you time to yell or possibly detour him. It's always a gamble when flying during hawk season. There is only one real answer to this problem and as you will read many many people lock there birds up until spring, plain and simple. Like some have said if you are really attached emotionally to your birds it's hard to say you will never be heart broken...


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## mikeyg (Jul 11, 2012)

billgarb said:


> I lost a young roller today to a coopers hawk. Unfortunately, I was more concerned about mowing the grass than watching my pigeons and when I glanced around the yard to see were my birds were, I saw a hawk standing on one of my young birds. It was too late. I chased the hawk off so it didn't get its meal, but my bird was dead. I guess I learned a leason, watch the flock or mow the grass, but not both. My birds stay close to the loft and I may have been able to chase the hawk off before it killed the bird as I have done bfore.


Sorry for your loss ..Like I mentioned above keeping an eye on your birds is critical during these times.


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## Lynnlewflew (Oct 28, 2012)

*no hawks this week!*

I closed my coop most of the week and my birds looked sooo sad I bent one of the bars on their gate so they might squeeze through. They noticed and did. so far so good. I may try and modify the gate even more to make sure they can squeeze through but a hawk can't. what do you all think?
Lynn


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## Jason Heidlauf (Apr 2, 2012)

hopfully you will never get a hawk in your loft . once i had a cooper hawk in my loft it killed a young bird . as i went in the loft the hawk flew right past my ear . luckly it did not hit me in the face . since than i got away from racers and got into brunner coopers and i don't let them out to fly at all . they just fly around the fly penn


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