# Releasing tame pigeons



## fred2344 (Jan 9, 2002)

I'll be very honest with you and say that I don't understand the posts that we have all been seeing lately about people who take birds in as babies, bond with them thereby forcing them to forget they are birds, giving them a home they know, giving them affection that they learn to expect, giving them safety and security and then deciding to let them go.
They are not suited anymore for the outside. They don't know how to survive out there. They feel lost, scared and might come down to land on the wrong kind of person. They don't know what cars can do. they don't know what people can do. They don't know how to find food on their own. They don't know how to join an established flock. They are more susceptible to illnesses that they haven't been exposed to.
They run down quickly and die out there.
If you aren't willing to keep this bird that became what you wanted it to be, then you should never have picked it up in the first place. This attitude is no different than tiring of a dog or a cat, driving them miles from home and dropping them off. They don't make it either.
Do the bird a favor and if you want to make sure your beloved pet is not lonely, take it to a vet and have it put to sleep. It's a lot kinder than anything else you might think of doing.


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## Charmily (Nov 14, 2002)

Dear Fred,
BRAVO!!! 
Very well said, and I think you are the person to say it. We all have to think responsibly when it comes to our pets, be they of feather or fur. Especially when that pet was taken from its natural enviroment, in a way that it cannot be returned. No one wants to think about euthanizing a "perfectly good" pet, however, no one wants to see any animal they raised or cared for being injured or killed by some freak accident or worse some freak person. That is the risk of releasing a "tame" feral bird or other animal.
Fred made a good piont, before you take any animal in, please make sure you can either care for it the long term, or are willing to find an appropiate home for it. 

------------------
Charmily


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

I would like to add:
For whatever reason, any member feel the need to 'release' a 'tame non releaseable' pigeon or rescues one & not sure what to do next, PLEASE! first post your problem here as we can ALWAYS get our heads together & come up with an acceptable solution. 
Cindy


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I absolutely agree with Fred that pigeons that have been taken in as babies and bonded with their owners have virtually no chance of survival if they are released.

Pigeons that have been taken in as adults and treated as pets also have their chances of survival substantially reduced even if they are healthy birds.

If you take in an adult pigeon and want to release it when it is fully fit then please ensure that you keep your distance and allow it to retain its distrust of humans and of domestic animals! 

Cynthia


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## Danielle Chase (Jun 26, 2002)

Fred is 100% correct. If you can't keep a baby pigeon into adulthood and then thru out its life, you'd be better off not to get the baby bird. A pigeon that bonds with a person will never survive in the wild if its turned loose, because they don't know any other kind of life other than the one they've shared with their human. DC


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## pverde9901 (Feb 18, 2003)

I'm not sure I could agree about putting a healthy animal down because it's not 100% suited for its' natural environment; there's alot to be said about instinct. But anyway, I am one of the folks that has been asking questions about releasing my pigeon. In this kind of forum where you will get the forced beginner like myself to the really experienced bird people like you guys, I imagine that you will hear some of the wackiest thoughts about pigeons ever vocalized and the silliest questions (like the one I had - Do pigeons go into heat?) ever about how to raise a pigeon. I think with a deep breath and alot of patience you can answer questions and direct people in the right direction (like Fred is trying to do) but address them directly when the questions are being asked and the options are being weighed. I'm not sure living w/me is the best thing for Jerry so I ask questions. Since he can't talk, I'm lucky you guys are around. Austin Duck Police say take him to our Town Lake where the other pigeons are but I'm not really sure about that so when other people write in asking some of the same questions it's very helpful to read what you guys have to say. I guess my point in all this is to say that not eveyone who takes in an injured or otherwise bird and seeks to release it has gotten tired of it or has some other superficial reason for wanting to release it - some, like me, wonder out loud about whether or not Jerry would rather be out being a pigeon. After his health, his happiness is the next priority. 

By the way, should I be worried about Jerry sneezing if that's the only symptom he's having? He sneezes randomly of course, but he does sneeze occassionally after scratching his ear.

Thanks,

Pam


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## fred2344 (Jan 9, 2002)

Hi Pam,
I rehabilitate feral pigeons and if I have an adult in trouble, he is fixed up and sent back to his flock as soon as possible.
Right now, I have a baby, about 9 days old and he imprinted on me from the getgo. Now, he can't eat on his own and can't be expected to for some time and I was fortunate enough that he quickly learned to walk over to a water cup and drink on his own.
He can't be released for the reasons I had stated in the first post. He has to be cooped and if not, the chances are very, very slim that he would survive as he is going to be a completely naive bird.
What is the difference between a tame parrot and a pigeon in captivity? Parrots go into heat and we would never allow them to be released. They wouldn't last a few days out there. The same holds true for a pigeon. The tame bird has no foraging skills. It has no concept of the social structure within a flock. The bird is now essentially a square peg in a round hole.
If your bird is in a mating mood, so be it but please don't make the mistake that his cup would runneth over on the outside. He wouldn't be in a mating mood for too long as he would be doing everything he could to survive and most probably wouldn't.
As far as sneezing, all birds sneeze. It's not serious unless there is nasal discharge and constant sneezing. They clear their sinuses that way.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Im sure there will different opinions . But a wild common pigeon might have it just a little ruf in the begining of its release. BUT it should do ok. IT is not a parrot from another country that does not have the food source that it requires to make it in the wild of america. A common pigeon will learn fast. If took where there are other commons it will mix in pigeons are a surviving type of bird. If you have a bird of the wild type it has bred for its survival. Sure you offered it food water and a dry place. But You are just guessing that it wont make in the wild domesticated birds do this all the time. Sure its a ruffer life in the wild. But dont compare it to the hook bill birds that just can not make it away from its flock and country. I remember when I was younger and had comon pigeons. Made a place on top of the garage they could stay in. After they got old enough to take off and join the other birds they did. I hoped they would come back they never did. They had a happyer life in the wild. Pigeons have a nateral cation of humans and a good sence about them. But hey some fall prey to cars hawks high line wires and such. That is the just of the bird being free. What a person wants is ther want what the pigeon wants we do not know for sure. But the real truth It wants its freedom to. It will forget us and go on. Sure the domesticated bird has grown to relie on us But many a breed of them can make in the wqild. Some canot because we have tamperd to much with its genes and altered it to much to really make it there. Its the human that clings to the bird and finds the reason to keep it. So one if a person thinks of releaseing the rescued bird. That will probably be a good thing. If the bird is hurt or fell from its nest then taken care of then released. Its nice that the person took the time to help. If the bird is not handicapped then it will find a pace in the wild agin thanks to someone that took the time to get involved. But keeping is a people thing not a bird thing. That how erver is how breeds got established by people not birds. The domesticated birds are out there. For the ones who want to keep pigeons. The wild o0ne belong free. When they are able. Think about it a minute. thousands of wild type birds are helped anbd released each year of many different species. AND they survive thanks to the few that help and release. Sure in the wild life is shorter then not in the wild. But that is but nature. A cottontail rabbit what lives about 8 months in the wild. But it lives on to bare young so it has lived. A chance of nature is any wild bird or animal. We humans if we took the time to relearn could make in the wild to and we are the most removed from that state of all the creatures of this earth.


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## Emily (Jan 8, 2003)

I would like to say that when I first adopted Ernie six months ago, all I knew is that he was destined to immediate death without me. His bird parents had abandoned him and at a week old he couldn't survive on his own. He has had a great six months living in my apartment and I am so happy to have helped him.

My recent post with respect to releasing him was simply because I thought he'd be happier flying around outside than stuck indoors. I came to pigeons.com because I really needed advice on what to do since I am not a pigeon expert and many of you are. And your advice has told me that Ernie would be happiest staying with me and that he could not survive on his own. So I have decided to keep him.

I just want to say that all along I wanted to do what was best for him. I had pet dogs as a kid and would never dream of getting rid of them because they obviously couldn't survive on their own. Same thing with Ernie - since I now know he needs to stay under human care I will keep him in my home.

I think a lot of the others who have asked about releasing their pigeons are in the same boat as me - just wanting what is best for their birds. It is a little ironic to think that a pigeon is happiest inside rather than flying free outdoors with other birds, but the way you have explained it, it makes sense that he really doesn't know life any other way.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Re Lee .. by the way what should we call you? Re Lee seems a bit "official" .. anyway .. that was a good post you made with lots of good points .. thank you. 

I think all of us with "pet" pigeons have to look at all aspects of the situation and then make our decision. I have had many that I have raised that did not want to leave .. and that is and was fine .. others who couldn't wait to be free again. Birds are individuals too and we need to give them the chance to do what they would like. Sadly, with birds, it's difficult to do .. they fly and we don't.

Terry Whatley


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Terry My name is robert. I have raised pigeons on and off most of my life. First got some wild type in 1958, That my dad brought home to me. But they to escaped back to the wild. Then on to different breeds of domesticated pigeons. The common pigeon is perhaps one of the most healthy pigeons out there. It has all the fresh air it needs, exersise. Which is important to pigeon health. It has mutated over to many different colors. And lives close to and by the people. So in away it is free and relies on the people to have a place to nest and eat roost and protect it. Like the dog of past. It shares a certain amount of its life for and with people. With introduction of falcons and poisan grains by man in the cities. There is not as many pigeons as in the past. Now the falcons are becoming a ploblem to as the have adapted to city life. The wild type was the begining for many a pigeon person. And the begining to the many breeds out there today. So it does need to be preserved as a part of nature and a part the evolution of the pigeon breed. The few that help out on any injured bird or animal is a conmended person. That has took the time to make a difference. And the real truth not will or even try to do this. So the few that do. GETS my salute for there efftort. But that is what I think and each will have there bases on What is or what isnt. And that makes us all interesting to share and learn from in life the different mind and ways. Good luck with the birds.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Emily, I understand only too well what you are going through and why you tried to release Ernie! And I sympathise.

I thought that all pigeons were programmed to survive in the wild by instinct, unaware that their parents continue to care for them and to train them until they are able to fend for themselves. 

I knew nothing at all about birds until a few years ago and am amazed at how many misconceptions I had.

I still feel guilty when it is a beautiful day and I see birds fly free while mine are in the aviary, even though mine look as contented as they possibly could. 

By starting a thread on this subject Fred is hoping to be "heard" by anyone who is considering releasing a pet bird without discussing the matter first. Not everyone reads all the posts so answers to individual questions might not have the same effect. 

Cynthia


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## raynjudy (Aug 22, 2000)

I think I understand the spirit in which Fred offered his comments, and I sympathize with them and respect them--Fred sees more in a month than I do in a year. But I differ with the notion that matters are so cut and dried.

Fred said, in part:

"If you aren't willing to keep this bird that became what you wanted it to be, then you should never have picked it up in the first place..."

A visitor or new member may construe this to mean that you shouldn't help at all--and I can't abide that. Rather, people new to the rescued pigeon scenario should be cautioned not to bond with the bird, if they plan to release it.

Since I wrote the "Basic Care" page, I'll amplify this point and pass the revised text on to Carl, to insert at his discretion.

Fred goes on to say... 

"Do the bird a favor and if you want to make sure your beloved pet is not lonely, take it to a vet and have it put to sleep. It's a lot kinder than anything else you might think of doing."

I disagree. This assumes only two alternatives exist. There is almost always a third alternative. The adoption option should be thoroughly researched. I also believe it is possible to acclimate or reacclimate a pigeon to its "natural" social setting. You can only kill it once; and while I dearly wish it to be otherwise, it is possible that this may be the only life this small being will ever know. 

Many good points have been made here by everybody. Some of these points are demonstrated facts, while others are well considered suppositions. Clearly, concern for the welfare of our beloved pigeons permeates everything said.

If we consider the origin of our feral flocks, we acknowledge that the species was not indigenous to this continent. So it follows that these flocks must have begun with escaped, domesticated pigeons, yes? Clearly many survived--at least long enough to make approximate copies of themselves.

The fancy traits so prized in show pigeons, that turn up in the feral flocks, either indicate the random surfacing of a recessive trait that is part of the collective gene pool, or the infusion of new genes by way of released or rejected show birds. The latter scenario suggests again, that some survive.

Far from a black and white choice, what's best in each case is, I believe, an individual thing. As was suggested, these beings are not of a piece. Some are wily, while others are far too trusting to survive in a feral setting.

I think we should better stress the "Bonding Issue" in the text of the Basic Care page. I'll try to get to that in the next few days.

--Ray

[This message has been edited by raynjudy (edited April 28, 2003).]


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## fred2344 (Jan 9, 2002)

I appreciate everyone's comments relating to this topic but I remain unalterably opposed to releasing tame pigeons.
Here are some cxamples I've come across.
1) I noticed a woman and her daughter by the flock every weekend throwing rice. At first I thought it was just a nice thing to do but after seeing the concern on their faces, I asked them why they looked that way. They said that they had felt bad for their pigeon and released it (sound familiar?) Apparently, they missed the bird and were trying to get her back only this bird was so scared and confused that she would not approach these people. I came from behind the bird and grabbed her. She was in terrible shape. She was starved and had the beginnings of canker in her mouth. This bird was not feeling well at all. I had medication with me and put down a Spartrix and sent these two back home with their bird.
2) I was feeding the flock and noticed a small pigeon with a baggie tie around his leg. It was an attempt to mark the bird. This bird was weak, very badly feathered and starved. I took him home and built him back up. He was so weak in the beginning that he couldn't eat but he would astonishingly open his mouth for me when my fingers approached his mouth. This was obviously a very house tamed bird. Worried about the very bad feathering, I tried to test something out and gave him a piece of white bread. Sure enough, he recognized it and started to peck away at it. This bird was reaised on bread only and that was the reason for the bad feathering. The only thing I could do after two weeks on vitamins, minerals and regular pigeon food, was to bring him up to a friend's coop. There was no way this bird would have survived the coming winter.
3) I found two full sized king pigeons on the parkway one day and someone told me that a man had just come along and released them. They were on the ground and I went after them but being too strong, they flew away. The next day, I didn't see one of them and for the rest of the week, never spotted him again. He was gone. The other one would stand on the ground near the flock but not in the flock. I couldn't attract the bird with food because it was too scared and would just walk away. After a week, the bird was so weak, I was able to just walk over and pick her up. It took about two weeks to rebuild this bird after what one week on the outside did. That bird went up to to a coop too.
4) I found a beautiful plastic spiraled, banded bird, not a racer on the parkway. She was lying on her side and panting from exhaustion. This bird was obviously lost and could not find her way back. She was built back up and cooped. The band had no identifying characteristics on it that would lead me to the owner. 
I could relate other examples of similar stories but they all run along the same lines.
The point I'm trying to make is that no matter what the conditions keeping these birds are, whether they are house tamed or previously cooped birds, once they get loose, they don't make it. This has been my experience and that is why I feel that perhaps only once in a blue moon, a bird is smart and strong enough to fit into a new environment and survive. I'll give you that much but by and large, they just don't survive without somebody intervening.


[This message has been edited by fred2344 (edited April 28, 2003).]


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## Scuiry (Jul 11, 2001)

Fred,

Is this true of all domestic-raised pigeons or just the hand-raised/bonded ones? As you know I have wondered for some time if some of my outdoor aviary birds that were mamma and pappa bird raised are releaseable or if that would be a death sentence. They were hatched, nested and raised by feral pigeons in an aviary environment. They have never known the outside world but are still youngsters. Do these kind of birds fit your description?

Many thanks,

Daniel


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## fred2344 (Jan 9, 2002)

Dan,
I believe this to be the case. That's why I related some incidents about aviary birds.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Unlike you, Fred, as well as Terry, Helen, Cynthia, Mary & many others, I have not had (thank heavens) the experience of finding a starved, injured (minor or severe) or mistreated pigeon.
I have been most fortunate to have healthy & happy pijjies visit, with the exception of the dozen last year who landed on our back lawn with what I assume was PMV.
I do have a question however:
With regard to the pij you medicated. Will she not need further medication? Given the mental status this little one was in & the deplorable overall condition, I would not have been able to return her to the two ladies. She was being returned to the very people who let her go in the first place only to end up in the condition she was in.
Cindy


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## raynjudy (Aug 22, 2000)

The "Basic Care" text, as it exists, reads in part, as follows...

· Bonding: As time passes you and your pigeon will learn a lot from one another. Always speak gently and provide a safe and quiet atmosphere for the pigeon while cleaning its quarters, changing water, etc. Pigeons can be very affectionate. Just how affectionate? Two true stories from the moderators of Pigeon-Talk are available for the asking! They are: Lucky in Love, A Pigeon Story and The Charm Of A Pigeon. We suggest you read both stories as an entertaining way to learn a lot about your little guest! Now you have to ask yourself, what are your plans for this pigeon? Will you return it to the wild or will you keep it? We urge you to discuss your options on Pigeon-Talk.

*****

I've amplified the point in the last few sentences as follows...

*****

Now you have to ask yourself, what are your plans for this pigeon? Will you return it to the wild or will you keep it? If you encourage or allow the bonding process to occur, the pigeon may become so dependent on you, and so trusting of other humans, as to become vulnerable and unable to compete in the feral world. It would be tragic to release such a pigeon back to the wild. This is a good time to think ahead... We urge you to discuss your options on Pigeon-Talk.

*****
End

Clearly, some do survive. But I will defer to Fred's experience and observations.

Still, I want to encourage people to help where they can, while avoiding the pitfalls. With luck, a lucky few will become animal companions--members of families--with stories to be told and pictures to share!

PIGEONS FOREVER!!!

--Ray


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## fred2344 (Jan 9, 2002)

Cindy,
Those two people realized their mistake. If you saw how they were cuddling the bird, they were never going to do that again. It was very mild canker and one Spartrix would clear it up. 
I know the bird wound up fine because a few weeks later, I met the husband and he let me know how things were going.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

In a percent ratio Many released birds should and do make it in the wild. The small amount that do not. May have been weak in the first place when they were released. The others of domestic breeds that have grew up in a loft condition then by some reason turned or escaped have to adapt or fail. This is part by nature part by man. But no set rule applies. Add the thousands of pigeons that you have seen then the ones you think may have been released. The number favers the survivers. the one born or adapted to the wild. Nature takes its course also. That holds us bound to the land. The keeping is both good and bad its a human call to make this judgement. Defend your choice but its still yours. Several types of birds were brought to this country the usa to be released as different people thought they would like to see that type of bird flying around. They multiplied and survived and now a part of the american willd life. Even florida has willd budgies and such that has survived but the weather the food source was more to there needs. South texes and I believe arizona ones had parrots that was long ago then they migrated further south and flourished. The bird with canker may have had it prior to its release. The king birds well Its harder for them to make it the wild. Not known for there fly hardiness. So a domesticated bird into the the wild should be readly flight hardy. small medium to size. close in body relation of the wild type. And not overly a tame easy target. A person makes there choice to keep or release. The bird if healthy at the release time has a chance. And a better one if it is of the wild type. Im not choosing sides but keeping an open mind on this subject. In the wild as in the loft the bird is fed by its parents around thirty to thiry five days then it learns to feed its self find the water pigeons are flock birds. Either large or small flocks. And find a reliable feed source. and return to that area often. People hinder it some by the feeding in parks and such making the birds depended on that food source. So a little good creates a little harm also. The main thing I still see and say if you have took the time to help a injured lost or young that has fel from its nest. Then you have done more then others and if you now find the bird fit to release. Then do so. If can not then keep it. But never think your are stuck with a bird be cause you got involved and thought you were helping. Or else less will do this and more will die. I believe that nature has its trials in life cruel or not that is natures way sometimes. And some times people help nature just a little to alter the things a bit. Those that do get my bleesings


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## Christina Coughlin (Dec 29, 2002)

I'm sorry I have come in on this one late, however I do also agree with fred. I have two pigeons that were found loose outside.

One was a fancy pigeon and was suffering from the heat when a young boy found him. Skye recovered but the family knew that he would not servive out side so he moved inside with their pet parrots for 5 years. He now lives with me in a aviary.

And the other one was found a bloody mess by animal control. She was obviously a "pet" at some point. She had no fear on me and healed in no time. I wanted to release her until I noticed how tame she was after she began to recover. Due to her injuries from a animal attack, her right wing was broken in a few places and did not heal well so she cannot fly. She is nervous of other animals but... She is terrifide of any kind of bird outside the aviary, even sparrows-no wonder she was so messed up.

And one last thing...

Many people are still trying to release endangered parrots back into their native countries and have not yet been successful. Just look up the Spix Macaw or releasing the Spix Macaw.

Christina


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

You're right Fred, 
After the fact, I realize you never would have allowed the pij to go back to them if you felt it would have been in harms way. 
I'm glad you have been given an update & that things are going well.
Cindy


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## celtic2 (Apr 12, 2003)

I want to thank all of u for this excellent site. 
Got to thank Fred for making an important point loud and clear. 
It's an important issue and I'm sure this thread will be very useful to many.
I compliment Emily for her gracefulness. 

I am one of those that has taken in a juvenile pigeon and wanted to crawl into a hole after reading Fred's message. It hit me hard.

This is an excellent site and I want to thank the people who have built it and maintain it and those that reply to sometimes difficult questions. Their concern and patience is admirable.
I personally want to thank John, Mary and Amber for their immediate response to my questions after I found Bijou. 

It was early one morning on a busy sidewalk in Paris.
Bijou might have looked like an adult but didn't know how to eat, drink or fly. It was probably one of his first outings and he got lost or I suspect he might have been chased from his nest. People can be cruel.

Well, Bijou learned how to drink and eat very quickly and flys admirably. I've watched him grow and progress day after day. He still has small bare patches alongside his chest but the feathers are growing in quickly. 
I am waiting for slightly warmer temperatures to set him free and I am hoping for the best. 

Pigeons come every morning and I am hoping he will hook up with them.
He's grown so fast. 
Thankyou all

Vive les pigeons!!


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## turkey (May 19, 2002)

There is not much I can add to this. 

I'm reading stories about TAME birds being released that were observed and found they can't make it in the wild. It's obvious that the wrong choice was made when they were released. I don't think that is nature's choice when a human become involved and turns a wild pigeon into a tame pigeon and then releases it.

What I don't hear is the stories of the TAME pigeon that is released and is observed surviving in the wild. I know there are stories of survival of properly rehabbed pigeons. I have heard them, but I don't recall any stories of tame pigeons thriving in the wild. 

I hear some say tame pigeons were released and never came back, but they survived in the wild. 
If they are never observed in the wild then how would anyone know they survived? 

I also agree that each case is different. I have a pigeon that seems to want to fly free. When he was with his previous owner he did fly free, but always returned to the loft like all the others. In this case even though he acts like he wants his freedom, in reality his chances of survival in the wild are slim without a loft which provides fresh food and shelter. He and his loft mates made that clear when they returned to the loft everyday. There's no denying they had their freedom to leave and enjoy the wild. They choose to stay for a reason. 

Julie


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## hilary (Jun 20, 2002)

I can personally attest to two pigeons that I raised from a young age and released, gently, back into the wild.

One was many, many years ago when I was a teenager living in South Africa. Even though he was hand reared, he was agitating to leave and would pace up and down next to the window. We had a large feral flock in the vicinity and I eventually released him. I saw him almost every day for the next three or four years. He was healthy and totally integrated to the flock. I do believe that for those three or four years he lived a life much happier than if he had been kept inside or in a cage.

The second pigeon was one that I raised from a squeaker here in Israel. He showed the same signs of distress of being kept inside and, over a period of some weeks, he eventually joined up with the feral flock on our kibbutz. I saw him some 6 or 7 months after his release and he looked fit, fat and well and also totally intergrated with the wild flock. I must add that we have many wild pigeons here and I've yet to see or find a sick or diseased pigeon. I've seen them hit by hawks but it seems that we don't have the diseases that you all have in the cities.

My Hercules is allowed to free fly and I suppose I'm lucky in that he always wants to stay within sight of me. He had every opportunity to leave but chose to stay and I have no doubt in my mind that he will never leave, but at least he's not kept cooped up in a cage or inside a house. He's allowed to be a free spirit and it's been his choice to stay.

I agree that totally helpless pigeons should not be released, but each case is individual. On the other hand, what kind of life is it for a free flying bird to be kept in a cage and denied the freedom to fly? 

Hilary


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## turkey (May 19, 2002)

I can only speak for myself as I have a pigeon in my house that used to to fly free. Snowball, who was a white release bird, was attacked to the point that his owner took him out of the loft and put him in isolation because he was going to be killed by his loft mates. He asked me if I would take him and I agreed. I don't know what Snowball's fate would have been if I did not take him. 

Of course Snowball is allowed to fly free, but it's in my house.









I think it's great that Hilary was able to give examples of pigeons that were raised by people and released. Did they have any pigeon contact before you released them Hilary? And can you tell me a little about the process? I am really curious, because if I ever come across wild pigeons that need a little help (especially babies) I would like to release them back to their flock. How do you go about the de-humanizing(?) them? 

Julie


[This message has been edited by turkey (edited May 01, 2003).]


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## hilary (Jun 20, 2002)

Hi Julie

I kept the human contact to a minimum. Just enough to feed them when I had to. No cuddling (as tempting as that may be!!). When they are old enough to eat on their own I put them in an outside cage and feed them at night in the hope that they don't associate me with food.

In the cases of successful release, both pigeons were allowed to leave in their own time. I left the cage open in case they wanted to come in and eat. They did take their time in going but eventually did leave.

As a matter of fact, even Hercules who I had from a day old looked pretty wild and ready to go until that fateful day he decided that he preferred blondes and I was the love of his life.

I'm lucky in that wild birds have it pretty easy where I live. There is a plentiful supply of both food and water on our kibbutz and, as I've said before, I've never seen any diseased birds. These "country bumpkin" pigeons seem to have it much, much easier than their city cousins.

Hilary


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## fred2344 (Jan 9, 2002)

Hilary,
I think the difference of opinion we have may be because we live in different areas of the world. You are fortunate enough to be able to see safety for the birds and unfortunately, I don't see it here. 
I've seen birds run over by cars because they were not experienced enough to stay out of the gutter and I couldn't get to them quickly enough. I don't think you have that by you and I don't ever wish you to see that.
Kids throw rocks at them. Adults actually kick them to get them out of their path and I hope you don't have that by you.
All this has served to convince me that releasing a tame bird is just not a viable idea. It may be the differences of environment that has conditioned both of us differently. Frankly, I envy you that you do not see some of the things we city folk get to see. I wish things were different here but they aren't and tame birds don't have much of a chance out there when they have never learned the ability to compete for food, shelter or know how to find safety. They drink dirty water loaded with canker and coccidia. Any natural immunity went out the window when we shelter them for a long time.
It's just no good to release a tame pigeon here. If they ever had the "survival" edge, they lost it a long time before they were released.

[This message has been edited by fred2344 (edited May 02, 2003).]


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I think that the operative word is "tame". Once any animal has learnt to trust a human being and be dependent on humans for food then he will fare badly in the wild. 

The RSPCA once told me that the most dangerous thing a wild animal can do is trust humans! Having read the latest RSPCA reports on the increase of cruelty to animals in the UK (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2988025.stm) I have to agree.

Cynthia


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## turkey (May 19, 2002)

I feel really bad for Fred. Although I have saw a few kicks towards pigeons, they have always miss the pigeons. I think I would jump out of my skin if I ever saw their foot connect. 

When I go in the city I get really sick inside watching the pigeons forage and the people take their aggravations out on them. New York is one place where I would not want to watch pigeons at. 

Thank you Hilary for explaining the rehab process. 

Julie


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## Jane R (Jun 4, 2003)

What a fantastic forum - thanks all. Would NOT have coped without it! 

I found a squab on the road - it had fallen almost 15 feet out of its nest under a railway bridge and (to my horror) cars were passing over it - thankfully it was BETWEEN the wheels - when I got there, I put my hazards on and picked him up. Arn't people weird - they were getting VERY irrate because I was holding up the traffic! Too bad. (We have very little help available for pigeons here in the UK - generally regarded as pests).

Anyway, long story short - 'Squabie' is now about 20 days old and providing endless laughter and fun. I love him/her (?) and read Fred's post with interest. I guessed that my squab would be too imprinted on me and mankind generally to ever be 'wild' again. 

But is there really no alternative to constant encaging? Can he not learn to 'return to base'for feeding etc and locked in at evening - could he be prepared for this with a long period housed outside with limited human contact (no handling, just feeding/general care)- perhaps with another bird bought as companion? 

I intend for him to stay with me until he dies AND have a happy long life - but it would be great if he could fly a bit.

Thanks again all - Jane + Squabie


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## turkey (May 19, 2002)

Hi Jane,

He's still young. I'm quite sure if you could get a loft set up really quick you could teach him to home to it and he'll come and go. Some people use rabbit hutches. You would have to keep it way off of the ground because of cats and other predators. 

Julie


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Jane,

Welcome to pigeons.com! And bless you for holding up the traffic for that squabbie!

If you are going to let squabbie fly free you must avoid him getting too trusting of humans! One of my rescue pigeons has suddenly (and with no initial encouragement) decided that all the humans that enter the aviary are wonderful and he will immediately perch on heads and shoulders. I intended to release him but when he started to do that I decided that he would be better off staying in the aviary with his mates. I have seen too many innocent pigeons kicked at by yobs for just being there. I shudder to think what they would do if one landed on them.

Cynthia


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## ddpowell (May 16, 2003)

From my experience in trying to find my lost pigeons recently (due to relocating my coop and apparently not getting acclimated to the new place), I have seen pigeons that were kept (not necessarily "tame") survive for sure for two months.

I have signs up, ads in papers and on websites. Through this, I've gotten calls on ones people have had in their back yard for weeks, (one pigeon, two months). I helped capture four of them. In all cases, they were much thinner because they were being fed regular bird seed, but otherwise healthy. There was one found (but the lady said that was the first time she saw him (that day)) and he was severely underweight and weak, on the brink of dying. I couldn't locate the owner to find out how long he'd been missing. 

I'm thinking that the ones that do make it (and i'm hoping this is true for my mine since they are snow white and beautiful and so many people love them), are finding backyards where people are putting out seed religiously twice a day. I fed my wildbirds twice a day and a hefty supply of good seeds, and would have some banded pigeons join the feral flocks and eat my seed. I'd see them for very long periods. 

I had a constance source of food and water for them, so their only worry was mites, diseases from the ferals and hawks/owls. There are many neighborhoods in my town that have people feeding backyard birds regularly, so I'm sure many find spots like that. The ones that don't, I am certain, don't live long. 

If lost in the winter months, when people don't feed as much, they have a harder chance. That is why I'm glad that while mine are still lost, that it is, at least for now, a good time of the year. I am getting lots of responses from my flyers & ads, and have retrieved many of my birds. 

Also, if they've ever been out to fly, which most banded pigeons have been, then they've learned to forage somewhat, so again, chances are better for those. It would all depend on location, environment, what they've been exposed to in the past, etc.. YOu can't assume they will all die, but yet, you have to carefully review your bird's situation before releasing. There are soft releases which require a lot of work and they can work, but minimal contact with the bird is a must, if a younger pigeon.

So carefully assess the birds situation before thinking of doing this, but I would recommend for ALL birds such as these, (except for adult feral pigeons being temporarily treated), that you find a coop that he could join. That way, they have their basic needs taken care of with the freedom to fly. 

I don't know how many feral pigeons would try to join my coop...they know a good thing when they see one.


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## Karenho (Jun 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by Jane R:
> *What a fantastic forum - thanks all. Would NOT have coped without it!
> 
> I found a squab on the road - it had fallen almost 15 feet out of its nest under a railway bridge and (to my horror) cars were passing over it - thankfully it was BETWEEN the wheels - when I got there, I put my hazards on and picked him up. Arn't people weird - they were getting VERY irrate because I was holding up the traffic! Too bad. (We have very little help available for pigeons here in the UK - generally regarded as pests).
> ...


Hi Jane and Squabie feel the same as you we have a homing pigeon here since 22nd April 2003 he was only a week old and looked like a dodo, so cute and he has developed so quickly we had him on a mixture of lorrie dry plus betafarm, Susie from the pet shop gave it to me and showed me what to do and add the apples to it, he thrived on it 4 meals aday and you cant help but get attached to them as you are handling them. and he never was in a cage we had him in a box and with a towel over him till he got older then we made him a house on a pole out in the garden but he is still too young to stay out at night he stays inside on our lounge on a towel has a smooch to me on my shoulder and chest before bed while am watching tv and then goes outside of a day to fly and play with his friends Mork and Mindy the crested pigeons we raised for 5 months from 3 weeks old that had fallen out of their nest also Pete the peewee we had for 6weeks he was a character he has gone now with the others the crested pigeons come and visit us each day for a while then go with their friends and we leave wild bird mix and pigeon seed out for all of them we also feed lorrikeets and diamond doves and kookaburras and butcher birds and king parrots so is great but the raring of Mork and Mindy the crested pigeons and Homer the homing pigeon ( ps we dont know what sex he/she is) is a joy and glad to find this site to share our experience with you and all the others pass this on if you can Homer is sitting on my shoulder as I write this and am glad to have him here for life , we have a dog a chihuahua Cuddles who gets on so well with them all she shares her big cushion they all sun themselves on it at cetain times of the day we have some pictures of them but dont know how to upload them as yet as first time user on this site,so till next time hope to talk again best wishes Karen and bird clan


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## Jane R (Jun 4, 2003)

Hi Karen and friends -

Great to hear your news - what an amazing array you have! Squabie doing great - renovating garden at the moment and plans have been revised to include a large outdoor aviary!

Will keep you posted. All best Jane + Squabie


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