# help sick or injured bird?



## bigalpay (Mar 4, 2006)

We rescued a pair of abandoned pigeons. They have been doing well for a week and a half, eating like pigs growing like crazy, getting feathers,walking around, spreading their wings. We think they are about 16 days old(by the looks of Sara's pics) Problem this morning we got up to do the usual feeding and the smaller one's neck was all cockeyed and she is having a very hard time walking she keeps ending up rolling around. We've attempted to feed her twice both times not very successful. We feed her and her crawl still feels empty. Does anybody know whats going on? We are very new to the pigeon world, about a week and a half new. Can anyone point us in the right direction? Thanks so much we appreciate any advice.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hello and welcome to Pigeon-Talk. Thank you so much for taking in these two young pigeons.

The symptoms you are describing could be paramyxovirus (PMV) or paratyphoid (salmonellosis). In the case of PMV, it is caused by a virus, so there is no medicine to give for the condition, but good supportive care is essential. The bird needs to be kept warm, well hydrated, and fed by hand if unable to eat on its own. In the case of paratyphoid, Baytril (antibiotic) will usually correct the problem but supportive care is still needed.

If you search here on Pigeon-Talk, they are many informative threads and stickies about both of these conditions.

It is also possible that something else is causing the problem. The best way to know for sure is to take the bird to an avian vet for exam and testing.

Can you describe what the poops look like? This can sometimes narrow down what the problem may be.

Could you please let us know where you are located? They may be a member nearby who could offer some hands on assistance if needed.

Terry


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## bigalpay (Mar 4, 2006)

*thank you*

The sick birds poop is kind of a thick watery substance with a little poop in it light brown in color. Is either one contagious? We have been keeping them together. Should we be quarentineing her? We are located in Fresno, Califonia. Thank you for your response.


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## pigeonkid1046 (Nov 16, 2005)

Like TAWhaltley said, it is either of the two sickneess. I'm going to try to be very clear here, but not mean, *WASH YOUR HANDS AFTER HANDLING THE BIRDS.* Salmonella can spread to humans. If you do go to the avian vet, he/she will reccomend the med. you need to cure them. You can check out this site http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com and you can give them a call and describe to them whats going on, and they will definitly help you out. If you don't want/able to get to an avian vet, give Foy's a call. Don't give up on these little guys, they will pull through. 
(It is possible that the other ones have this sickness too)
Keep us posted and good luck


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*Seperate*

Seperate the sick baby from the healthy one. Provide a heating pad for the sick. May need to help the sick one eat and drink. Clean is the key word here. A towel or wash cloth could be used for the poor baby. A vets or bird rehabbors help could be useful to you.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

If you are being careful with your hygiene and washing your hands well after handling the bird, there should be no problem. It's hard to say if the second youngster will catch or has already caught whatever the first one has. It's probably safer to separate them and be very careful about washing your hands between handling each one .. also be very careful about cleaning and disinfecting any utensils that might end up going back and forth between the birds.

If you have a vet, you might want to have a fecal done for the bird showing symptoms. This would let us know if the problem is salmonella or perhaps another bacterial overload but wouldn't tell us if it was PMV.

Though there is a wildlife center fairly close to you, they don't typically take pigeons. We do, however, have two members here that are both about 60 miles from you and are experienced with pigeons and their illnesses. 

If you have a place (likely a feed store) that sells pigeon supplies, you might consider getting a multi-purpose treatment in capsule or tablet form and start the bird on that. If there is such a store nearby, I'd definitely call them and see what they have on hand.

Please let us know how you would like to proceed from here. 

Terry


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Hi,

Both conditions are transferable between birds. if the two have been together anyway, it is possible that the other may soon show symptoms, depending on the condition. 

If it is paratyphoid, of two birds from the same nest, it can be the case that only one gets it. 

Isolating the one with the problem may even now prevent the other getting it.

Are they being hand fed or are they already learning to eat seed themselves? Shared food/water is a way that a problem often spreads.

John


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Bigalpay, 


Thank you for taking in these two youngsters...!


Really, too, young Pigeons can probably get all kinds of things 'from' people for that matter...like Salmonella, Listeria, e-coli, and who knows what else...or, from the food fed to them in some cases...

But either way, a good hand washing before we feed them, and, after we handle them is the best.

Can you tell up please in detail, what you have been feeding them? what it is, how often you make it fresh, how you keep it between feeds?

How you have been feeding them? Method?

And how you have been keeping them?

For now, if you have not been, do keep them 'warm'...so they are not chilled or cool in any way...and free from any drafts...an electric heating pad set to loe or medium, with a towell on it, in a Box-on-it's-side, so one side is open...works very well. A light cloth draped part way over the open side so one corner is like a little door. One just has this on any table or dresser top...they stay put nicely by their natures...


Till next...!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Ellen (RELofts) has arranged for some Baytril to be brought to Fresno in case needed by these babies. I am waiting to hear from the "transport" person with his contact information.

Terry


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## bigalpay (Mar 4, 2006)

Wow what a response! We have been keeping them together in a box with a heating pad on low with towels and a towel to make a nest shape. We have been feeding them Katee baby bird formula by hand with a plastic syringe every 5 hours. Fresh every time. We have been washing our hands before and after every encounter with them. We have been changing their bedding after every feeding and about every two hours. We have introduced seed but neither one wants it. This has been the routine for the last week and a half since we got them. They are eating about 20-30cc right now of formula per sitting. Should we be also having water available for them? By the way thank you for this website and all the work you guys do! It's been very very helpful.


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Hi Bigalpay,thanks so much for helping this pair of pigeons. You are a very caring person, and yes the members here usually don't waste time in responding to questions and concerns ! Please keep us posted and feel free to ask away!


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Sounds like you have things well in hand Bigalpay. I hate to ask you to separate the babies, but please do so for their own well being.

As soon as I have the contact information for the person returning to Fresno with the possibly needed medication, I will post or if you would be good enough to call me with your phone #, that would make things go a bit quicker. I can be reached at 949-584-6696.

The fellow bringing the meds is a disc jockey for one of the C&W stations in your area and rescued a pigeon himself not too long ago. I'll see if I can find the story for you.

Ellen is a pigeon racing fancier in the Tulare area and a great champion of all pigeons. She happened to call me this afternoon, and I asked her for the name and location of a feed store in your area .. she just went a bit further and got what might be needed for you.

Please do keep us posted about your youngsters.

Terry


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## bigalpay (Mar 4, 2006)

well "Bo" our sick baby went through the night. She was looking better at her early feeding. Still very sick though. The other one "luke" that we quarentined has been vomiting alittle of the formula. Is that a pre-curser to the sickness? We thought maybe we upped his food to much so we brought it back down. He still vomited. No other symptoms. We'll keep you posted!


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

bigalpay said:


> The other one "luke" that we quarentined has been vomiting alittle of the formula. Is that a pre-curser to the sickness? We thought maybe we upped his food to much so we brought it back down. He still vomited. No other symptoms. We'll keep you posted!


Hi BigAl, 

Just make sure that you are mixing the formula VERY well, no lumps or bumps and keep it a little more watered down than recommended on the package for the age groups. Don't microwave the formula either, this can creates hot spots that can burn their crops. It should be warmed in a pot of hot water while inside a separate jar or pot.

If these youngsters are 16 days old or so, you can leave a heavy, untippable bowl of water near them and they might drink at this age if they so desire. It's probably a little bit too early for them but they will decide.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thanks to you and your wife for calling with a phone #. I have in turn called the person who brought the meds to Fresno for your bird(s) and asked him to call you to make pick up/delivery arrangements.

The dosages on the medicine are probably too high for the age of your birds, so either post back here or give me a call when you get the meds.

I'm glad both youngsters made it thought the night.

Terry


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## bigalpay (Mar 4, 2006)

Thank you to Ellen for sending the meds we just picked them up. Thank you to Terry for facilitating the whole ordeal. Thank you to the local dj for bringing it home to us! You have been great. Terry the dosage that Ellen put on the paper was 1/4 tablet for the first dose and 1/8 of a tablet for 10 days after. We are going to give "Bo" her first dose momentarily. Please keep your fingers crossed. Luke is still doing well. No signs of sickness. He's out of the cage right now walking and stretching and pecking at some seed!


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Meds (Baytril) have arrived and all is well. 

Terry


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

We've spoken .. all is well .. but stay tuned .. we still need help here.

Terry


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## bigalpay (Mar 4, 2006)

Thank you all so much for you help and for trying to pull "Bo" through. I'm soooo sorry to say that she passed away last night. She ate fine last night took her meds drank some water. Then around 10:30 last night she stopped breathing. We'll miss her sooooo much, even though we only had her alittle while. "Luke" is doing fabulous!! I don't see any signs of sickness. He took his first bath last night. Once again thank you all. Thank you Chuck for meeting us with the meds!


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## bigalpay (Mar 4, 2006)

Ellen can we send back the unused Baytril so it can help another animal?


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

I'm so very sorry Bo didn't make it. Please keep the Baytril at least for now in case it may be needed for Luke. Hopefully Luke will continue to be just fine.

Terry


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## bigalpay (Mar 4, 2006)

Thank you Terry. We will hold on to it for awhile. We are going to try to make it to the Critter Creek walk. We are also planning to send a care package of needed supplies so I will hold off on sending the meds till then. Thanks for the advice.


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## bigalpay (Mar 4, 2006)

Luke has not been very mobile today. After morning feeding his poops look like they have dark yellow fluid coming out with them. Is this a symtom of anything? It just started this morning. Thank you for any comments.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I am so sorry little Bo didn't make it.
Please keep an eye on Luke. How is he doing now, hope he is better.


Reti


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Dark yellow? Yeah, that's bad. Have you checked these babies for canker? Are there any cheesy buttons in his mouth or down the throat? Use a flashlight if you have to and also smell his breath to see if it kinda' smells bad.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Just in case, you need to see if you can find a supplier in town for Metronidazole which also goes by "Flagyl" and "Fish Zole". The exact formula that you're looking for is one that's pure Metronidazole and is often sold as a 250 milligram (mg) tablet.

Here are a few places in your area to try:

Aquarius Aquarium Inc 
5541 Columbia Drive South 
Fresno, CA 93727 
559-224-3474 

Captive Critters-The Sudsy Mutt Inc 
10069 North Maple Avenue 
Fresno, CA 93720 
559-433-8895 

Kaz's Tropical Fish 
3014 East McKinley Avenue 
Fresno, CA 93703 
559-237-3474 

Kelley's Pet Foods 
1382 North Cedar Avenue 
Fresno, CA 93703 
559-252-6303 

PETsMART 
3220 West Shaw Avenue 
Fresno, CA 93711 
559-277-2220 

The Packaging Outlet 
3014 East McKinley Avenue 
Fresno, CA 93703 
559-237-3474

Whitie's Pets 
5215 North Blackstone Avenue 
Fresno, CA 93710 
559-438-4343 

It's possible that your bird has "canker" which isn't the same as "cancer". Its real name is Trichomoniasis and is a flagellating protozoa (like Giardia) that can cause an overactive immune response in young birds. Usually, you see strange little cheese buttons in the mouth in random places but it can also occur down the line (in the GI) where you don't see it and that's when it's the most deadly.

If we decide to use the Metronidazole and you find it, you can give the little fellow a quarter of a pill for the first dose (loading dose) and then throttle it back to 1/8 for the next (twice a day). There are better ways to dose it but it's a fairly forgiving medication. We may work out other dosing but time may be of the essence so we'll worry about that later.

Pidgey


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## bigalpay (Mar 4, 2006)

I just looked down his throat and not yellow buttons. At last nights feeding and this morning he also threw up water when i picked him up. He feels full of food even before I feed him. He hasn't been very active since he and Bo were seperated on Saturday. Other that the throwing up water ,yellow substance in with the poop and feeling full there are no other symptoms. I'm not even sure he feels full. Since I've never raised a pigeon before it might be him just growing up. 
He does seem alittle top heavy. Waddles when he walks. I attachtad some pics of Lukes poop. Also some of Bo in her little casket.


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## bigalpay (Mar 4, 2006)

pics of lukes poop.


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Hi - Luke's poops give an indication of an impending liver problem. His faeces are fine but his urates are yellow.
This is taken from a google search to back up my thoughts. -

Depending upon a bird's eating habits, some birds have a yellow pigment in their blood that is passed through the kidneys and is recognized in the dropping as yellow urates. These yellow colored urates may give some cause for concern, as about the same color develops if a bird is becoming jaundiced. If a person notices these yellow urates and the bird is not perfectly healthy, the bird should be examined by a veterinarian to determine it the bird has hepatitis.

I would be giving an amoxycillin based antibiotic to help fight any infection if that was my bird. Can you let a vet see him? Very hard to assess a bird when the photo only shows top of head and back. A nice fully side on view with camera at bird's level is best for any assessment.
Hope this helps


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## bigalpay (Mar 4, 2006)

Here Are More Photos Of Luke


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## bigalpay (Mar 4, 2006)

One More Picture


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

That could very well be paratyphoid, but without physically examining the bird I could not say for sure. He has a compromised immune and digestive system though, as the urates are so yellow. If you can get antibiotics it would be much better for him. If it is paratyphoid then Baytril is your best bet - and a good long course - at least 2 weeks. Anything else and I would be recommending amoxycillin, or perhaps even a sulphabased antibiotic. Trimethoprim sulphamethoxazole or an equivalent might even be a better option. A combination of amoxy and Trim/Sulpha has cured many an undiagnosed mystery illness.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Bigalpay,

I think we are getting into serious trouble here with Luke. The crop does look overly full to me. If the liquid food is accumulating in the crop, then sour crop will or has already developed. I'm going to give your phone # to Ellen and ask her to call you in the hope she can refer you to a good pigeon vet in the area .. if so, then the sooner the better to get Luke to the vet. Failing that, Ellen may be able to help you find a place or a pigeon fancier in your area that has the meds Helen (Nooti) is suggesting. A regular vet will have the Amoxicillin as well as the Tri Meth (brand name is Bactrim here in the US) and the Flagyl (metronidazole) mentioned by Pidgey. 

I'm not suggesting that you "throw" all these drugs at Luke. It's best to get a qualifed vet to determine what ails Luke and prescribe accordingly.

Terry


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Yes, it's not good and can be a few different things that only testing can narrow down. For instance, go here and scroll down to section 3.1.3. Hexamitiasis:

http://ocw.tufts.edu/courses/5/content/215763

That also seems to cover that symptom (yellow diarrhea) so it's very confusing to make a diagnosis without labwork.

Pidgey


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## bigalpay (Mar 4, 2006)

thank you I looked it up.


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## bigalpay (Mar 4, 2006)

thank you Terry. I think this might be more than we can handle. Luke is coming to work with me everyday so i can feed him and keep an eye out. I do think that the stress of being moved and Bo sickness is getting to him. I've contacted Critter Creek by email and left a message. No word yet. Does anyone know of a place we can take him where he can get the help and attention he needs. I really want to see him make it. With sour crop should I still continue to feed him? He looks like he's going to explode.


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

You should never crop feed again while food from the last meal is still in the crop. It would be best to leave it and see what happens. This sounds like it could be juvenile paratyphoid. Crop stasis is a symptom. Baytril is the only really effective drug for paratyphoid.
One trick is to try resting the crop on a hot water bottle which will speed up digestion and help to empty the crop. But this heat must be maintained, even through the night or it will not work.


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## bigalpay (Mar 4, 2006)

Thank you for the advice i will try the hot water bottle trick. Never having any experience with pigeons before i thought it was just him growing, until this morning when he was noticably tight in his crop.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Did you check him for bad breath?

Pidgey


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## bigalpay (Mar 4, 2006)

what kind of bad breath? it smells like the baby bird formula we feed him.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Sometimes with sour crop, there is an awful odor (bad breath). I don't have any proof as such but it always seems to me that they're in worse shape if they smell like they've got bad breath.

Incidentally, sometimes folks get confused about the exact location of the crop for testing purposes. The confusion is because there is a forward loop of the vertebral column that sticks forward under a chick's chin. The actual crop is below this. If you feel on the blade of the keel (breastbone) the crop literally sits down on the top end of it and has basically two lobes that spread out on either side. When chicks are really full, these two lobes fill up on either side of the vertebral column loop that's in the middle.

One form of sour crop is a fungal (yeast) infection (Candida; Candidiasis) that literally causes a fermentation and resultant gas buildup that seems to swell the crop up kinda' like a balloon. When you have that presentation, one of the drugs used is Nystatin that is a prescription-only medication from a vet. It isn't absorbed systemically so it only works on fungal infections within the GI tract. It's actually a very commonly prescribed medication for humans so vets often write a prescription to be filled at a pharmacy.

Pidgey


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## bigalpay (Mar 4, 2006)

Thank you for the info. He is definately full on both sides. I've got his crop rested on a hot water bottle right now. I am also trying to get in touch with some rehab in or around Fresno ca. I can't seem to get a hold of anyone. I think that someone who is qualified should be taking care of Luke.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Finally got hold of Ellen. She is checking with a pigeon fancier in the Fresno area to see if that person can recommend a vet for Luke. Said fancier is retired from pigeons so doesn't have any meds or supplies any longer. Will post again and call as soon as I have anything that might help.

Terry


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, let's try calling a few of these and see if they know anyone in the wildlife rehab network in your area that will care for pigeons:

http://www.creec.org/region7/stories/storyReader$343

http://www.southeasternoutdoors.com/wildlife/rehabilitators/california-rehabilitators.html

(scroll down to the second Fresno entry--she takes pigeons)

Pidgey


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

bigalpay said:


> Thank you for the info. He is definately full on both sides. I've got his crop rested on a hot water bottle right now. I am also trying to get in touch with some rehab in or around Fresno ca. I can't seem to get a hold of anyone. I think that someone who is qualified should be taking care of Luke.


Hi Bigalpay,

Stanislaus Wildlife Center is in Hughson, and I don't think they take pigeons, but it's worth a try. Critter Creek does has a volunteer, Bruce, who is a moderator here on Pigeon-Talk that is in Exeter, and Ellen is in Tulare. Still working on this and waiting to hear back from Ellen.

Terry


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

More:

California, Central region, Fresno County (Fresno)..... 559-298-3276 
Cathy Garner, Fresno Wildlife Rehabilitation 

California, Central region, Fresno County (Fresno)..... 559-269-1957 
Eileen Sutterfield (songbird team leader), Fresno Wildlife Rehabilitation 
[email protected] 
Wildlife Species: mainly songbirds, specializing in hummingbirds


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

*Vet To Use In Fresno*

Just got this from Ellen .. you would need to pay whatever fees for examining and treating the bird, but they are pigeon savvy vets. They want you to bring the food you have been using and the meds you have given, if any. Also be prepared to give them the history on Luke and Bo.

Animal Hospital and Bird Clinic, (559) 227-5575, 5169 N Blackstone Ave, Fresno, CA 93710 

Terry


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## bigalpay (Mar 4, 2006)

thank you so much for the help. I've tried the link and the phone numbers there and I got all answering machines about an hour ago. I've called everyplace local and answering machines again. I'm willing to drive to get Luke the help he needs tonite. I'm just so worried about him.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Why don't you call the vet clinic and see what the fees might be for examining Luke and running a fecal at a minimum. If it is within your means, I'd really suggest taking Luke to the vet rather than making a long drive to take him somewhere that may not have what is needed for treatment.

Wish I was close enough to be of more help.

Terry


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## bigalpay (Mar 4, 2006)

I just took him to the clinic and he's being tested and givin meds. The doc wants me to call tommorrow when she knows more. I feel he is in very capable hands. Thank you for all the help.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

bigalpay said:


> I just took him to the clinic and he's being tested and givin meds. The doc wants me to call tommorrow when she knows more. I feel he is in very capable hands. Thank you for all the help.


Wonderful! Thank you so much for doing this. The vet came highly recommended from a knowledgeable and well respected (but now retired) racing pigeon fancier. I'm sure Luke will get very good care there. Did the vet offer any "off the top of her head" guesses as to what might be wrong? Please do keep us posted.

Terry


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## relofts (Apr 8, 2004)

Bigalpay,

I have just caught up on the thread your little one although I had spoke with Terry on many occasions regarding this little one and I think that Luke is in good hands and that this Vet is going to be our best bet to help Luke, the Vet that suggested is one that was highly recommended from a local fancier there in Fresno and I am confident that she would only use the best so hopefully she can help Luke. 

Terry,

Judy hasn't retired yet (she only wishes I think), they are in the process of relocating a little ways from where they were living and they are staying in their motor home right now waiting for their new home to be built, the lofts have been for the most part moved to the new property and getting settled in (this turned into a major chore) but most everything they have is either packed, in storage or someone place in between, I hope that Judy never retires as she is always there to help me when ever I ask, she is the greatest supporter of people and pigeons.

Please keep me informed on how Luke is doing and I will keep checking back in, I have been doing a lot of spring cleaning around my loft and running errands trying to get caught up, but Terry knows how to get a hold of me when ever needed.

Ellen


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## bigalpay (Mar 4, 2006)

Well bad news guys.... Luke passed away last night at the clinic. Unfortunately the clinic is closed on thursdays. She didn't give me any idea of what was wrong with him she just wanted me to call today to find out after his labs came back. I will contact her on Friday and get the details. She is a great Vet. I've actually known her for 20 yrs or so we used to have an office next to hers. I didn't realize she was an avian vet. Funny thing is I called her office the day we got them for advice. I will post again when I know more. Thank you all for your help and concern.


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

I'm so sorry.......... 
Poor Luke did not look well and even people experienced in pigeon nursing can find these cases very difficult. 
At least you tried.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

*Hi Bigalpay,*

I'm so sorry to read that Bo and Luke did not make it! I know you tried your best!

Mr. Squeaks and I send our sympathies!


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## bigalpay (Mar 4, 2006)

Thank you so much all. This was definately an experience. We appreciate your condolences.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

I'm so sorry about Luke. Thank you so very, very much for doing all you did to help both Bo and Luke. As Helen posted, it's often difficult and sometimes impossible to save them no matter how hard you try or what you do.

Please do let us know what the vet has to say.

Terry


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## bigalpay (Mar 4, 2006)

I just talked to the vet and she says she thinks multiple things were going on with him. She asked to do a autopsy I said yes. I'd really like to know what happened. I'll know more monday. Keep you guys posted.


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Sorry to hear about Luke. I have had bad luck leaving animals with vets overnight. It never seems to turn out well. Not blaming vets but the environment maybe,...cats, dogs, snakes, birds etc all in little cages near one another. Something almost always seems to go wrong.

And pet surgery with involving aenesthetics...don't even get me started on that one. You did your best though and perhaps nothing more could be done. Sorry again for the loss.

Cameron


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## bigalpay (Mar 4, 2006)

thank you Cameron.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I'd think that, statistically, the biggest reason that you leave animals overnight at the vet is because they're in bad shape to begin with. Obviously, there is also the stress of not being at home. Bad combination but it's sometimes a toss between two more days to live at home/only one if staying the night at the vet's.

I had one that I had gotten a little bit older than Luke. He was bad sick and was the skinniest little guy I'd ever seen. Clinically emaciated. He had crop slowdown and I kept fighting it and fighting it and fighting it for a week before he passed away. He was never more lucid than his last night. I went to bed and slept fitfully until I woke up, knowing the time had come. I walked in and picked him up while he breathed his last. I had named him Scarecrow and have positively refused to forget him or the lessons learned.

When they get crop stasis, they can die of dehydration within a very few days if you can't get their GI going again. In that condition, the systemic problems intensify almost exponentially.

Pidgey


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hi Bigalpay, just to tell you that I'm sorry about little Bo and Luke. I'm glad you're having the autopsy done.. Findings like that help all of us who rehab pigeons.

You fought the good fight. I hope you can continue to work with pigeons because they need all the help they can get from caring people like yourself.

Maggie


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

*Nooti - question*

Helen, you mentioned putting a hot water bottle under the crop - how hot should the water be and do you put a cloth between the crop and bottle?

Thanks, Maggie


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I am sorry Luke didn't make it. You tried and did your best. Sometimes things are out of our hands no matter how hard we try.

Reti


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Maggie the bottle should be hot enough to transfer heat to the bird, but not too hot - shouldn't be luke warm either as that will be useless. I usually put blue paper or kitchen roll down as padding between the bottle and bird and adjust the thickness according to the amount of heat coming through.


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Pidgey said:


> I had one that I had gotten a little bit older than Luke. He was bad sick and was the skinniest little guy I'd ever seen. Clinically emaciated. He had crop slowdown and I kept fighting it and fighting it and fighting it for a week before he passed away. He was never more lucid than his last night. I went to bed and slept fitfully until I woke up, knowing the time had come. I walked in and picked him up while he breathed his last. I had named him Scarecrow and have positively refused to forget him or the lessons learned.
> 
> Pidgey


Hi Pidgey,

I had a similar experience with my last Chow Chow, a girl I named Shebie. Called her Sheba-da-beep when no one was listening. Have never been able to forget her either, slept badly, worried sick until the end and she too died in my arms one night. The best dog I ever had. Probably my best friend too.

Where have you been the last few days by the way. I always look forward to reading your posts so missed you right away.

Cameron


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## bigalpay (Mar 4, 2006)

Hey everyone. We heard from the vet. It looks like Luke had lots going on. Parartypoid,e.coli,adrenal virual infection, spots on his liver, hole in his heart, and lung infection. The vet said there was nothing more that could have been done. I hope this info helps. Thanks everyone.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

OMG, it's a wonder he made it that far, poor little pij. Indeed there was nothing that could have been done for this little one.

Thanks for letting us know.

Reti


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Oh my! Poor little Luke and Bo. What a horrible collection of maladies. Thank you again for your incredible kindness and concern for these two little pigeons.

Terry


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

So many problems,

Could the Paratyphoid have caused all of this I wonder. Thanks for letting us know what happened. I feel bad for those two birds all the more knowing how much they went through. Really sorry to hear it.

Cameron


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