# can a pigeon fly out of a 4 inch hole in the celing.



## Pigeonfriends (Jan 19, 2012)

can a pigeon fly out of a 4 inch hole leading to the ceiling my dad saids it can't because its wing will get in the way.

i was thinking it must be easy for them since they can hover in midair so it made no sense to me.


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## Country84 (Nov 12, 2012)

Id be more worried about them grabbing on the edge and working theirselves through. I missed probably a 3 inch gap in my loft and about lost one of my birds from sneaking through. I wouldnt imagine they would fly straight through it tho


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Drop in traps are designed with this theory in mind but they are not fool proof. They would most definitely make there way out but not fly straight through it unless really skilled


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

I am just having a problem with my new nest boxes, they came out from a less then 4" gap, i have to finish this gap because my high flyers are smaller in size and slim 

If i had my big homers like german beauty they wont or even the racing homers but still there is a chance that when they sneak they will push themself to find a way out and like the others said they cant fly staright through


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## Pigeonfriends (Jan 19, 2012)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4lnuzn-neI

i was thinking if this is possible they must be able to fly out some how.


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## mikeyg (Jul 11, 2012)

They could get thru a 4 inch gap if able to stand on a ledge and weasel there way thru, however my drop trap hangs over the inside of the loft, no ledges or anything,there is no way even hovering they can get thru, there wings would have to be folded in to fit thru and they cannot hover without there wings out. I have never had an issue, in fact they don't even try. They just know it's for coming in only.


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

I don't know what "leading to the roof" means. But....

IMO, there is no way they can fly up through a 4 inch opening. They are not parrots and can not climb. They can only flap their wings. It would be impossible to flap their wings though a 4 inch opening, unless there is something they can stand on to walk thorugh it. And yes, I have seen pigeons "climb" up wire aviaries. But they do so by climbing with their feet, AND, by flapping their wings.

Having said that. I am sure some pigeon WILL do it and I will get blamed.

It is the same principal as a hawk trap. A hawk trap is a cage with a circular opening on the top of it. A pigeon inside it to intice the hawk to drop down into the cage, via the hole on the top of the cage. The hawk then can not fly out of the cage through that hole. Thus he is caught.

Hopefully the "trapper" has put the pigeon into a different cage inside the bigger cage. So the hawk doesn't kill it.

DISCLOSURE: It is a Federal Offense to trap hawks, or any predator bird. As I understand it.

I am just trying to explain how pigeons can not fly up through a 4 inch hole, without something near it they can stand on. Ain't gonna happen, IMO. (okay, now tell me the stories about the pigeons that did just that). 

If you doubt I am correct. Let a pigeon (any pigeon) get hungry. Being hungry does not harm a pigeon. Put it in a cage with a four inch opening on the top. Set water and food within its sight, outside of the cage, and see if it gets to the water and food.

Ain't gonna happen.

A pigeon is one of a few birds that can actually fly straight up, as a helocopter or Harrier Jet can. But it has to flap its wings to do so. It can not climb nor jump through a hole in a roof.

But a hawk CAN drop down in through a 4 inch hole in a roof!


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Another reason why those traps work is because a trapped bird is more likely to go to the sides to try to get out, than try to go up.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Conditionfreak, I had a hole in one of my roof sections leading to the hallway, A bird learnt to grip to the wooden wall next to the hole, jump up and across and scramble through it. They are cliff dwellers after all and can get into and out of all sorts of nooks and crannies.


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

Anything and everything is possible, they say (although I disagree). But not probable nor likely. Show me a video of a pigeon doing that, and I will send you some ice cream. "Jump up and across and scramble through "it"".

Provided the video shows the pigeon "scrambles" across a ceiling, upside down, and then through a hole in that ceiling.

Ain't gonna happen. Unless the hole is next to another surface, such as an adjoining wall.

If the original poster posted a photo of exactly what he or she is talking about, then we would have a better discussion. Or if you did also.

Why would a pigeon keeper have a hole in a roof anyway? Cover it.

Not everything is possible. For instance, I can not be in California and Ohio at the same time. But I could of course, be on video or on the phone in both, at the same time. But physically, I can not. Not even Captain Picard or Captain Kirk could do that.

The devil is always in the details, as they say.


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## spiritflys (Aug 6, 2012)

Who peed on someones cornflakes this morning????? It didn't and can't happen? Send me ice cream, I'll meet your at breakfast. Warning: I AM NOT POTTY TRAINED....


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

conditionfreak said:


> Anything and everything is possible, they say (although I disagree). But not probablye nor likely. Show me a video of a pigeon doing that, and I will send you some ice cream. "Jump up and across and scramble through "it"".
> 
> Provided the video shows the pigeon "scrambles" across a ceiling, upside down, and then through a hole in that ceiling.
> 
> ...


...................


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## spiritflys (Aug 6, 2012)

No one likes a condescending know-it-all with a superiority complex. Funny to watch them "trip over their longs noses, however. Great fun!


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

Ha Ha. The saying that "anything is possible", or another very similar saying, "anything is possible with God", have both been around for several thousand years. It is surely stated every day, somewhere in the religious world and in the none religious world.

You have to admit that the saying is often stated.

It is rediculous to say it isn't. It is on different TV shows, more than once a day. It is part of the human lexicon. If no one else has said it, I have. Many times in my life.

But that isn't the point of this discussion. The point of this discussion is whether a pigeon can fly up through a hole in a ceiling, that is four inches wide. Your exact words were, "jump up and across and scramble through it". Did you actually mean to say, "the pigeon jumped diagonally and grabbed hold of the edge of the hole, and then managed to climb up and through the hole?"

So, perhaps you can explain what your difinition of "scramble" is. But only if you like having these boredom breaking debates. Does it mean that the pigeon crawls on the ceiling upside down? Does it mean that it jumps over to the hole and grasps the hole edge with its beak and toes, and then crawls through the hole? Does it mean that you don't know because you never actually witnessed it and only assume it happened because the bird got out? If I said I "scrambled" across my back yard, what am I actually saying? Running? Crawling? Scooting? Skipping? Climbing? All of the above?

I never said you were lying. I would never say that. I also did not invite you or spiritflys to breakfast. Whatever the heck that meant? (wishful thinking on spiritflys part, perhaps?)

Instead of trying to explain how it is not feasible for a pigeon to do that. I should have just responded to the original posters question with this simple answer.

"Your father is correct. He will always be correct. even if you disagree with him."



scramble 
1. to climb or move quickly using one's *hands and feet*, as down a rough incline. 
2. to compete or struggle with others for possession or gain: The children scrambled for the coins we tossed. 
3. to move hastily and with urgency: She scrambled into her coat and ran out the door. 
4. Military . (of pilots or aircraft) to take off as quickly as possible to intercept enemy planes. 


P.S. I am NOT trying to have a fight. I am trying to ascertain which of us is right about the original question. Because if I am wrong, I have to mark it on my calendar. 

EDIT: Interesting spiritflys, that you had to jump in the middle of a debate between two other people and give your two cents. How about you just answer the question this thread was originated for? That is exactly what I did, as the original poster asked "us" to do. Or are you just looking for a fight, about nothing? Just want to try and take someone down a little, in an attempt to raise yourself up a little? If that is the contest, then I would like to point out that you failed to end your quote with a quotation mark. Tsk tsk.

It is such fun watching the "full of themselves" people fall.  And yes, I fall once in awhile also. So you are in good company.


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## spiritflys (Aug 6, 2012)

Gosh, X-Lax will usually due for severe constipation. Since you accused me of having an "agenda" and that I was a: quote, unquote "bad person" in a private e-mail, I'd like to live up to the image. My agenda is bullies suck and no one should take their bullying. Passiveness achieves NOTHING.. My 2 cents? ha ha ha ha ha. Is there anyone with more opinions than you? Yep. Love takin' the bullies down. Doesn't everyone. Since you toss the "god thing" around, here's one for ya: YOU are not god, and what you think of me or any of the other wonderful people here on Pigeon-Talk does not mean a "spit" in the scheme of things. Condescending people achieve one thing in life in the hearts of others. A STRONG DISLIKE. As they say, you can knock me down, but do NOT TRY AND STEP ON MY NECK while I am down. I am up for it, believe me. By the way you spelled "probably" as "probablye". I see you made sure you "edited" it before you attacked my use or none use of quotation marks. Kilroy is watching ha ha ha ha ha. You say "tomato, I say "tomAto," "lets call the whole thing off"


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

I originally posted a very long post here, about the stalking and such that has been going on. But after I calmed down, I came back to the computer and changed it to this simple statement. The same statement I last PM'ed to you. Mostly because I feel sorry for you.

"Please go away lady."

I saved my long post and if you continue, I will post it for the world to see. I am NOT interested in any way.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

conditionfreak said:


> Ha Ha. The saying that "anything is possible", or another very similar saying, "anything is possible with God", have both been around for several thousand years. It is surely stated every day, somewhere in the religious world and in the none religious world.
> 
> You have to admit that the saying is often stated.
> 
> ...


Lol, I am not trying to fight either, Just discussing a relevant situation that I have WITNESSED that relates to this thread. By the way, If you want to be technical then yes... I should have stated it jumped diagonally, not across and then scrambled through. And Yes I did see it happen, Many times. So. The point here is not how a bird could find it possible, It is that it is possible.

Like you have said though, Why have a hole in your roof. Cover it, If its a ceiling then take the risk and find out as long as they rest of your roof space is secure


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

p.s. I am not connected with spiritflys nor did I know I was involving myself in a personal dispute when discussing conditionfreaks first post. I am purely debating the subject at hand and supplying some factual information about a case I have had happen here.


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

NZ Pigeon. Thank you for the gratious response. I think this subject has been hashed out enough.


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## spiritflys (Aug 6, 2012)

Some day you will shoot that mouth off too far, and someone will take action. Yes, I take great offence that you in the past insulted other rehabbers, more like ABUSED them, trying to deliberately humiliate them, then when I sent you a private e-mail in which I said it was offensive and please lighten up: (i.e.: you referring to Charis as "preaching" and going that extra mile for a pigeon, especially feral as the actions of an "extremest nut case" - your comment of November 11th, 2012), then calling me down and abusing me (I still have those e-mails, by the way)calling me a "weirdo" (abusive) in which you upset me so bad I cried the whole day, you get what you deserve. No wonder you got told to give your friggin' head a shake, man. Pull in your horns. There is such a thing as winning the battle, but then losing the war. No one with a right mind on this site likes what you are doing to others. I will go away when I finish making my point RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW. Put a sock in it and try consider what effect your bashings have on less hardened, more sensitive types. I despise having to come on this site and come across you battering down and putting down others. You will say, then don't look at it. Pardon me, but this is a site in which anyone can go anywhere they like and read anyone's comments they like. You deliberately like to hurt people. You are using this site to do it. I do not know what is wrong in your life, but you have to remember, when you stab at others, you will get stabbed back. That is life. If you don't agree, fine. You can LEND IT.


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

Now now spiritflys. Let's be fair here. YOU contacted me via PM, about another thread that you did not like my post in. (you refer to it above). I did respond to you via PM, from your initial contact to me via PM though. Meaning that you contacted me privately first, (to make that point perfectly clear). And I did tell you what I thought of you, without using curse words or threats. But only after you attacked me and said vile and bad things about me. You then contacted me again and again and again and again. Five times via PM. Yes, I used the word "weirdo". So, so bad of me, I know. But it seems to fit.

The very last thing I sent you in response to your last PM, was this simple sentence: "Please go away lady." I said something similar to you many times. But you keep coming back. As you did in this thread.

I can prove it. I'm sure the moderators here can look it up.

I have never used a curse word towards you. Because I feel sorry for you. I have never threatened you, in any way. I have never contacted you, unsolicitated. I have, only to respond to vile words you sent to me in PM's. I should have totally ignored you, but I did not. My mistake. Because I do not back down to threats, such as your statement above, ("Some day you will shoot that mouth off too far, and someone will take action"). I have no desire for any of the above. I want you to avoid me in every way. If you and I post in a thread, I wish it to be about the subject matter in the thread and not about each other. YOu are an advocate that anyone can read or say anything they want here. So am I. As long as it is civil. If I disagree with anothers comments. That is between me and that other person. I AM ALLOWED to participate here also. No matter whether you like it or agree with my comments. My opinion is just a valid as anyone elses here, (except for the moderators of course).

I still have the PM's on file. I can post them, both yours and mine, if that would clear things up for others here. I have nothing to hide and have pure intentions, concerning debating, discussing and exchanging info and ideas on this site. I like learning also. I do not know everything....yet. 

I have NEVER emailed you. I NEVER will. Don't lie and say that I have. "Private email", Ha. Never happened. Never will.

Or, you could just keep from stalking me from post to post. As you did here. Nary a thing about the subject of this thread, came in any of your posts here. Begs the question, "why not"? 

Quit stalking me "strange" women. Quit PM'ing me. Quit chasing me from thread to thread, waiting for me to commit an error, so that you can try and make me look bad. Or have a reason to be a part of my life (I am unsure what your agenda actually is).

But after you do start up with me again, THEN you always want to stop. Until the next time you want to start and stop.

Stop "strange" women, ("strange", being another one of those terrible words, like "weirdo"). You addressed me in a PM, as "conditionFREAK". Is that as bad as "weirdo" or "strange"? Think about it. 

spiritflys, I am not available, for whatever you want. Bickering or whatever the heck else you are about. Well, not available anymore after this. I do feel like responding this time, because you are making me look very bad to the public. So I will reciprocate in kind.

Talk about an internet bully. This thread is kind of obvious in showing whom is after whom, on this site. Just read your first two postings here. Directed straight at me. Not at all about the subject matter of the thread.

I answered the original posters question in pretty good detail, trying to explain MY THOUGHTS on the question. I did not attack anyone. I did not invite anyone to breakfast (still don't know what you were thinking about in that little head of yours, with that statement). I did jokingly make a "bet" for some ice cream. But I am well known on this site for doing ice cream bets. Harmless fun. I always pay off when I lose. When I lose an "ice cream bet", I send the winner two $2.00 bills so they can buy their ice cream. It has happened three times this year, and each time the recipient was a man. I am NOT looking for an internet relationship with you or anyone else. I am very very happily married. Quit PM'ing me.

Get a grip on your fixation women. Find a new hobby, other than stalking me. I ain't interested. As I told you in a PM.

Go cry if you want. But if you kept from addressing me, you would not have anything to cry about. I do not let women, men, or whatever else there is in the universe. Denegrate me in public, without a response.

Can I be more emphatic. STOP STALKING ME. Quit lying about private emails from me. Never happened. Read whatever you want. Say whatever you want. But quit addressing me or making statements about my statements. Just join the discussion about the thread topic. You still have not done that here. Just bad mouth me and try to make the public here, think I am picking on the poor little woman. Find a new hobby. I am not going to take your crap in public or in private. Leave me out of your existence. Again, find a new hobby. We will both be happier.

I am truly sorry that you just happened to butt heads with someone like yourself. Someone who does not back down and wants the last word. As you do. So, go ahead. I will be the gentleman, (I admit it is probably much too late for that now and I should have done it earlier). I will let you have the last word. I will not respond to you anymore. Unless you impune my character and integrity a lot more than you already have. I do appreciate those that help the little feathered creatures with their problems, such as you say you do. For that I commend you, here in public. But......., Oh, nevermind.

Calm down and have a nice day. There is absolutely nothing to worry about or cry about, when having a debate, argument or discussion with me. I do not bite. But I do like the sound of my own voice.

P.S. Not sure what the heck "LEND IT" means. Can't respond to what I do not understand. But coming from you, I have a guess.


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## spiritflys (Aug 6, 2012)

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!! Best laugh me and my HUSBAND OF 20 years have had in years! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! First, I'm stalking you? Then, I'm enamoured with you? HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! Please STOP! We are fair peeing our pants! ha ha ha ha ha ha! Oh, I'm cryin' all right! TEARS OF LAUGHTER! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!! Even the pigeons out on the balcony are doubling over laughing! Please stop, I am fair splittin' a gut! And to think we all once took you seriously! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA. Just fer yew: Sum reel bad spelin' ya kin kerrect. Yew r sch a kard, mon! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA


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## spiritflys (Aug 6, 2012)

P.s.: Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha. Wa' Ea Karrrrrrrd, Laddie!


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Well this thread has officially been hijacked, I have been told off in the past for way less, Wheres Almondman when you need him.


Noone wants to read this BS, It is soo far off topic its not funny. The debates I have involved myself in here and in the past are atleast on topic. But this babble you guys have going on is a bit pathetic.... and as for posts full of HAHAHAHA, come on.


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## doveman2 (Jul 22, 2012)

no they canot with thierwings open


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## spiritflys (Aug 6, 2012)

Oh, its hilarious NZ Pigeon, you had to be there. No worries. Case closed on this one.


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## spiritflys (Aug 6, 2012)

Actually, on the subject, here some are (not me), debating if a pigeon can squeeze through a 4 inch hole or not for dozens of paragraphs and THAT isn't quite pathetic? I'm just sayin.' Keep a sense of humour folks. It won't mean a thing 100 years from now. Pigeons will still BE TRYING TO SQUEEZE THROUGH 4 INCH HOLES IN NETTING, walking upside down, hanging upside down and grinning at the UNBELIEVING. They are smarter than most of us. I am sure they can do this. THERE, BACK ON TRACK ha ha! (OOPPPS, sorry, it slipped out.......


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.......

good to see the thread back to its subject


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## spiritflys (Aug 6, 2012)

Amen to that


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

spiritflys said:


> Actually, on the subject, here some are (not me), debating if a pigeon can squeeze through a 4 inch hole or not for dozens of paragraphs and THAT isn't quite pathetic? I'm just sayin.' Keep a sense of humour folks. It won't mean a thing 100 years from now. Pigeons will still BE TRYING TO SQUEEZE THROUGH 4 INCH HOLES IN NETTING, walking upside down, hanging upside down and grinning at the UNBELIEVING. They are smarter than most of us. I am sure they can do this. THERE, BACK ON TRACK ha ha! (OOPPPS, sorry, it slipped out.......


So your calling us pathetic for discussing the subject at hand yet you can hahahahaha for lines and lines taking up valuable cyber space, I'm with conditionfreak...... Crazy!

I laughed many times throughout reading this thread so my sense of humour is intact I think.


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## spiritflys (Aug 6, 2012)

NZ Pigeon, you first called getting off track pathetic, which I agree you have a point, now do not stir the pot, thought that is what you wanted to stop BOTH ConditionFreak and I doing. Let it go. You were right, we need to give it up and GROW UP. End the B.S. your own advice, and I intend to take your GOOD ADVICE. Personally, this is all rather childish, like kids on in a schoolyard, trying to bloody each other's noses.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

I still agree all this is pathetic and maybe I should have shut up but I am sorry I could not sit her and have you call me and anyone else that discussed the topic at hand pathetic based on your opinion of the topics worthiness to be discussed or debated, we were purely doing what this forum is all about. Thats me, All I have to say.


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

We all have a child (rather mischevious) hidden inside us that pop up sometimes and you really cant help it, happens to me also


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## spiritflys (Aug 6, 2012)

Just for the record, I have explained privately that the Subject was one we all got rather carried away on, and I was not picking on anyone's particular comments. We all got into splitting hairs, I also apologize for getting off track. I realize we need to work together, not be attacking each other and I will endeavour to ignore what should simply be handled by consideration of the source. Chalk it up to experience. All the best to everyone.


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