# Beak won't stop growing



## Teresa (Jul 10, 2005)

Hi, I have a rescued feral pigeon with an overgrown beak. I was advised to trim it, which I did taking care not to go too far...

Before trimming:










After trimming:










...but it just keeps on growing so fast that it needs trimming every 3 weeks or less.

Is this overgrowing related to a vitamin defficiency or any other cause that can be dealt with?


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

If he can be pecking his Seeds on say, a Concrete Surface, scattered Seeds, he should be able to keep it worn down properly to a correct length, even with the lower Beak.


----------



## Teresa (Jul 10, 2005)

Thanks, Phil. I don't have a concrete surface anywhere, do you think it would work if I put his seeds on top of a terracota roof tile?


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Just go to Home Depo and buy a few cast Concrete 'Pavers' ( - Stepping-Stones in effect, usually used for walkways or can be used to entirely pave in a Patio or whatever - these are like flat Cinderblock but some are less porous...and, they will be like 12 or 14 inch square, and, maybe 2 inches thick ) and if need be, make a little wooden frame or something to set them in, so the Seeds to not end up being off of them.


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I don't think Home Depot has expanded to Portugal, Phil.

Teresa...once you start trimming you will always need to trim. I have to do the same with one of my pigeons that had his upper beak broken off by a parrot. Now, I need to trim it about every month.


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Oh! Portugal, I had not noticed...


Well, regardless, any place which sells 'Pavers' or Concrete 'squares' used for paving patios or Walkways or whatever...or Cinderblock flat Squares...even common plain Brick would be great, just arrange a a few of them to have enough area for it to be practical...


----------



## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Hi Teresa

Like Charis, we have some pigeons who've needed a regular beak trim (for years now). Stones or whatever have made no appreciable difference in such cases. Some get the problem due to even a slight misalignment, while for others it would seem to be just a genetic problem or the result of an accident. We had just a single case where one trim fixed the problem, and no further overgrowth was evident.


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi John, 


When you say 'Stones or whatever', there is no detail to permit the reader to have any idea what that meant in actual practice.

Does the phrase 'Stones or whatever' mean that the Bird was only allowed to have Seeds which were scattered on a hard, somewhat abrasive flat Stone or similar material?


Or does it mean something else?



Granted, pecking their Seeds on a surface which is coarse and hard and a little abrasive, may not ammend every instance of an over-growig upper Beak.

But, does it really make sense to insist it could never be of any use ever, for any such Beaks?



The sort of Beak does happen often enough in Pigeons or Doves who never had it when Wild, once they are indoors or in some condition where, all they ever peck in, is a Seed Bowl, or other soft surfaces where no wear to the Beak tip occurs.



Phil
Lv


----------



## Teresa (Jul 10, 2005)

Thank you all so much for your advice!

For my part, I don't mind trimming his beak as often as it takes, but if there is even a small chance he may be able to 'sand it' down himself, I'll have a go.

You see, when he was brought to me his beak looked like it did after I trimmed it, and by then he had been in captivity for 5 days. The lady who brought him to me found him jay walking in the middle of the road, unable to fly, because his wings had been clipped.
He's very distrustful of people, so not a pet, and it seems likely he had been kept in a patio or yard where his beak got worn down by pecking at seeds on the ground.

In theory, after the moult he should be able to fly again, and it would be great if he could be released. So he and I have nothing to lose by trying the abrasive paving stone method.

I'll keep you posted, and thanks again.


----------



## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

pdpbison said:


> When you say 'Stones or whatever', there is no detail to permit the reader to have any idea what that meant in actual practice. Does the phrase 'Stones or whatever' mean that the Bird was only allowed to have Seeds which were scattered on a hard, somewhat abrasive flat Stone or similar material? Or does it mean something else?


Please do not nit-pick over semantics. It serves no useful purpose.



> Granted, pecking their Seeds on a surface which is coarse and hard and a little abrasive, may not ammend every instance of an over-growig upper Beak. But, does it really make sense to insist it could never be of any use ever, for any such Beaks?


Please read what was actually written in posts before responding to a point. What I said was _"Stones or whatever have made no appreciable difference in such cases"_ in reference to the birds which we currently have. That is my personal experience and observation, not a generalization.



> The sort of Beak does happen often enough in Pigeons or Doves who never had it when Wild, once they are indoors or in some condition where, all they ever peck in, is a Seed Bowl, or other soft surfaces where no wear to the Beak tip occurs.


Case in point. I understand what you are conveying, without having to enquire how often is 'often enough' and often enough for what? 

So, let's drop this and just let Teresa try the options and see what works.


----------



## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Hi Teresa, I've only had one bird that had a beak overgrow like that. I took him to work and had it trimmed. One month later it was well overgrown again...I had it trimmed a second time. It never overgrew again 
When it happened, I tried researching the cause. I read (someplace - forget where) that it can be caused by underlying issues.......but it didn't specify 'what' underlying issues


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> The lady who brought him to me found him jay walking in the middle of the road, unable to fly, because his wings had been clipped.
> He's very distrustful of people, so not a pet, and it seems likely he had been kept in a patio or yard where his beak got worn down by pecking at seeds on the ground.


Alternatively, Teresa, whoever clipped his wings was probably also keeping his beak trimmed. Not all captive birds are tame, even those that trust their owners are frightened of strangers.

Pecking at seeds on a hard surface is unlikely to keep a beak that is already overgrowing trim, it would need to be rubbed or scraped against an abrasive surface...swishing might work, but birds don't tend to swish scattered seed. I don't know if you have tried filing the beak back, but it takes a lot of filing! However, sometimes the pecking on pavement will cause the overgrown tip of a beak to break off, but this can happen after the bird is already too weakened by hunger (this is how we found our Glory)

As to the cause, our Gonzo's hook beak is genetic, Piglet's is due to pox-induced scissoring and Maddie's is due to trauma....before she came to us she flew into a wall and since then both upper and lower beak overgrow in a straight line!


----------



## whytwings (Feb 12, 2011)

I have a bird with this same condition.......I am fearful i may clip it too short .....any advice ???


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

What I do is trim a fraction at a time, then I wipe my finger over the end of the beak, if there is the tiniest trace of blood I stop.

What also works for me is using one of those battery nail shapers that come with manicure sets.

When you trim a beak keep a little container of cornflower handy, if anything goes wrong you dip the whole beak into the cornflower.

*This* is the page that I wrote on overgrown beaks for UK rescuers.


----------



## whytwings (Feb 12, 2011)

Thank you feefo .........that info was very helpful !


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Msfreebird said:


> Hi Teresa, I've only had one bird that had a beak overgrow like that. I took him to work and had it trimmed. One month later it was well overgrown again...I had it trimmed a second time. It never overgrew again
> When it happened, I tried researching the cause. I read (someplace - forget where) that it can be caused by underlying issues.......but it didn't specify 'what' underlying issues


I heard the same thing..but can not remember what it is either!.. seems I heard them talking about it in passing at work.


----------



## Teresa (Jul 10, 2005)

Cynthia, thanks for the link, that was really informative. Achilles's beak is not very dark and, as you can see on the photos, it's possible to distinguish where the blood supply starts. So I trim the whitish part with nail clippers and then use a file to take it back a little more and smooth it out.

I had also thought about the possibility that a very curved beak might break by impact on stone, so I meant to try it just after trimming, not before.
As I said, if his beak will always need trimming, then he's welcome to stay, but it would be great if he could be releasable. 

Waynette, I had also read something relating to a defficiency in something causing beak overgrowths, and I think it was a vitamin. I have no idea how to find it, but it must have been here in PT. I'll have a rummage around, but meanwhile it won't hurt to give him salad stuff more than once a week.

Fingers crossed, eh!


----------



## Teresa (Jul 10, 2005)

*Found some food for thought...*

After a few searches, I found these articles. Please bear in mind they are for birds in general, and not specifically for pigeons.

Source: http://www.mfgouldianfinches.com/Issues/Gouldian_Beak_And_Claws.html 


> There are many reasons a birds beak may become overgrown. The bird may not be the greatest at personal hygiene and does not wipe its beak on rough surfaces to prevent the overgrowth. It has been said that over medicating a bird will cause it's beak to grow too long.
> And oddly enough, an overgrown beak can be a sign of calcium deficiency. Overly rich foods can cause beaks and nails to grow excessively long in a short period of time.
> 
> Overgrown claws can also be a symptom of over medicating or calcium deficiency, however many birds just aren't getting the right type of perch. With a variety of perch sizes and forms (cement, sand, rock, wood, etc.), your bird should be able to keep its nails trimmed on its own.


Source: http://www.avianweb.com/beakdeformities.html


> Overgrown maxillas and mandibles (upper / lower bill)
> The maxilla (upper beak) tip is the most common site of overgrowth. Uneven beak wear is often noticeable, especially along the occlusal or biting surfaces of the upper and lower beaks, usually occurring on both surfaces.
> 
> An overgrown beak can be the result of health problems, including:
> ...


Fatty Liver Disease seems to come up a lot, and can cause poor absorption of calcium, according to the next article.

Source: http://www.holisticbirds.com/pages/fld0502.htm


> Fatty Liver Disease is also called Hepatic Lipidosis. The Manual of Avian Practice by Rupley lists Fatty Liver as excessive fat deposited and stored in the liver. In a fatty liver, normal liver cells are replaced with fat. If this continues, the liver can no longer function properly. However the liver has been known to function with even 80% damage and no physical signs.
> Confirmed diagnosis of liver disease requires the use of laboratory testing procedures.
> 
> Bile, produced by the liver, is necessary for fat digestion. It breaks fat into smaller globules, aids in the absorption of fat-soluble vitamins, converts carotene into vitamin A, and is involved in the absorption of calcium.


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I checked "Fit to Win" by Dr Wim Peters (it is specifically about pigeons). He says:



> *Parrot beak* occurs as a result of damage to the upper beak upsetting its growth pattern, which results in uncontrolled cell division and beak growth. The maxillae grow in a downward curve and the mandibles (lower beak) maintaining a close apposition with the maxillae, follow the direction of growth.
> 
> The damage arises from physical trauma or from infection, specially with the pox virus. Should eating become difficult, the beak must be trimmed at regular intervals as the condition is permanent. If eating is not affected it is best not to interfere.


----------



## Teresa (Jul 10, 2005)

Thanks, Cynthia. Poor Achilles, it's a life sentence then... very sad. 

He looked very healthy when I got him. If he had an infection or pox, there is no longer any sign of it. Which makes trauma the most likely cause, especially considering that he is a very feisty bird and whoever clipped his wings did an abominable job. Look at this...


----------

