# FINLEY I am getting me loft (i think)



## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

Hi everyone,
As some/most of you know I have been wanting to build a loft for my pigeons. 
At first I thought my gp (grandpa) and dad would help but dad decided not to, 
so it was just put off I guess you can say. We then bought a kind of loft for them 
(some of you have seen the pictures) but it’s too small. So I am still going to build 
them a loft. I have been thinking about how to build it (how I would like it to look) 
and what feeders, nesting boxes, etc. to put in it. I finally got someone that will 
help that knows about pigeons, not sure how well he knows about their living conditions 
but he CAN help build, my gp may also help, so I just need your help and ideas to make 
sure we can build a loft that will make me and my babies happy. It will have two doors 
together so my birds can not get out when I am going in.

I have read other posts and know I can get some of the info from them, but I would 
prefer if you can help me out renter then me trying to read them. Thank you
With questions like what wood to use, treated/untreated, and what paint is best? 
I also would just love to here what you think. I was thinking of getting untreated 
cuz treated has chemicals in it right? So I was thinking untreated would be best. 
If so I would have to paint it right? And if I have to paint it do I paint before or 
after I put it together? Probable after just making sure. Sorry about so many questions 
I just want to be sure I do what is best for my birdies.

P.S. I do not have the measurement, but how many windows should I have? 
The loft I am talking about making is a loft/flying pen together, 
cuz I do not/can not/will not take a chance at losing my babies. On Saturday gp 
and I are going to pries everything I may need. And once again THANK YOU.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

GREAT, FABULOUS, WONDERFUL NEWS! Your pigeons have been needing this and especially with winter around the corner.


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

lol i was going to make a inside cage for winter (almost my whole lol  anything for my babies  )


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I just realized you thread says," I'm getting me a loft [I think}"
Have you finally run away from home so you need to live with your pigeon's?


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

lol I wish. I could live with them not run away lol : D
i have thot of leting the birds have my room and me take the loft lol    
i missed up on that but saw it after posting o well its cool.
can you ancer some of my ?s


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Do you have a garage that you could build the loft up against?


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Redwood is the most durable, moisture and pest resistant wood that
you could possibly use. I would price out the differnce between Redwood 
and Pressure Treated (PT). You don't want to use PT in areas where the 
birds can peck at or walk on the stuff....very poisonous. Redwood on the
otherhand is safe for the birds and mildew/pest/moisture resistant.

fp


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

ok thake you fp
and Charis no it is/has to stan by its silf


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

How much room do you have?


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

I am not a 100% sure about it but 4 or so wide and 9 or so long but again this is what i think but win my gp come i well see or the other guy.  thinking gp but.....


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Hello Michelle,

When you build your loft or coop, it is best to place the front of it facing the south or southeast, so that the bird structure will get the first warmth of direct sunshine especially important with winter quickly approaching. 

Hardware cloth, preferably 1/4 inch is best to use for the door and any vent or window openings you may have to keep predators out.

I personally would not put any windows facing the north, as the cold north winds could make it cold and drafty.

Pigeons are pretty resilient creatures but drafts and direct water could make them uncomfortable and ill .

They must have a good roof to keep the moisture off them and their food.

I have a fairly simple set up, yet functional and safe for our pigeons. We have 8. When we built it, we thought we would only have 6, but things did not turn out as planned. Make the structure larger to allow for bird expansion, should that ever occur. We have to make our coop larger now, but we have an adjacent flight pen which will be attached, but not until Spring though.The pictures of our set up can be seen in my web shots link, if you wish to view it. 

The front of my structure has not only hardware cloth on the front openings and door, but also has black metal mosquito netting to keep flies, and mosquito's out. The inside has tracks around the openings where we slide Plexiglas inside during the cold Winter months, except the ventilation ports on the top sides.

The roof is also shingled and this fall I plan on insulating the top as well.

We have had our pigeon coop for only a year, but always find ways to make it more efficient for me as a pigeon keeper, and clean and comfortably safe for my wonderful pigeons as well.


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

hi Victor
hey is a pic of what i have now. i have the neting stulff so i do not get fly and all that was well. 

(CLICK THE PIC TO GO TO MY OTHER LOFT PIC OF MY DONE THING) 



i am going to make it as big as i can but we do not have to much room.


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

I did see the pictures. You have some nice looking birds. How many pigeons do you have?

I see you have a small pen attached to your pigeon structure. 

It is hard to improve when you have limited space or financial resources. 

I am glad your GP is willing to help out. 

I will check on your posting in the morning. I have a school bus to drive.

Good night all.


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

lol ok  
how meny pigeons do i have? do you mean in that cage or in all?
that cage 9


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

Hi Michelle, how exciting for you that you are able to plan a new loft. What I've done with two of my self-built lofts, were to use....plain old PVC pipe as frames! It is very cheap at hardware stores (very cheap, about a dollar for ten feet pieces), and you can buy ready-made connectors for the corners. 

A loft I had three years ago was made from this and was fifteen feet long, eight feet high, and five feet wide. With PVC piping, you will need to put a few extra pieces across the aviary to make it sturdy, but these pieces make great perches. There is a four-dollar bottle of PVC glue that makes the ends pretty much impossible to pull out of the connectors. 

Then you wrap some 1/4" hardware cloth around it; for my second aviary, I used the smallest "chicken" wire available, which is less expensive (and easier to work with) than the firmer, thicker hardware cloth. Make sure not to use regular chicken wire, as rats can waltz right in through it.

If you use cable ties (the plastic kind where you put one end through the little square at the other end and pull it tight, then it can't come undone due to the notches in the piece) work great to secure the wire. They are easier to work with, rather than using baling wire to wrap around (very hard on the hands). You will need the thickest, strongest cable ties for this job, and keep in mind that in a few years you may need to replace them with new cable ties as they can deteriorate. Wire also works to tie the hardware cloth to the frame, but as I said, is hard on the hands. You could even use a combo of both.

I have built three aviaries using wood frames and was pretty much disgusted with all three of them. I even had a carpenter friend help out with one, and we used the correct wood, correct corner pieces, correct everything. Nails are impossible to use as they splinter much of the wood, and screws didn't hold very well at all. A few months of use with each aviary and they were ready to trash. I think for very large aviaries, wood is the best bet, and the wood that people use for those is larger and sturdier. But to build a small aviary with giant pieces of wood is difficult, as far as I've seen personally. Which is not to say it can't be done. I'm sure many others have managed it just fine and maybe I went about it wrong somehow. I sealed the wood and even then it got damp after a few months outside, and I used different wood for each one, and recommended wood at that!

If you do use the PVC pipe frame, it also makes the aviary lighter and easier to move around once you're done building it. Putting it up against the house or a garage wall is a great idea, for protection from the elements. When it is cold or raining out, I cover the aviary now with a thick tarp and it stays warm and dry.  Many people like to build a "coop", or enclosed "house" onto the wire aviary, for their pigeons to go into at night or during the rain. You will need others' advice for this as I have never built one.  

Hope some of this helps and please feel free to ask any questions you have. Good luck!!


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

thank you maryjane i am going with all wood and painting it.it is going to but kind of like my one i have now just biger. so as you see in the pic there is going to be the flypin on one side and then the loft 2 other things i am adding to this one it nesting boxs on the one side and the 2 front doors so i do not have to wrie about my babies get thing out. were i live it is harder geting all the stuff so i am going to go with the 1/4" hardware cloth. thank you for your input and help


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

HERE IS WHAT I WAS THINKING, DO YOU GUYS THINK THIS WILL WORK?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Michelle,
How big is it?


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

Not That Big But Is A Ok Size. Win Gp Comes Over He Well Help Me With The Sizeing And I Well Let You Know


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

well know tomarrow but i think its about 5 W/5 H/9 L 
what do you think about that?


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## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

Needs to be bigger!!


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

lol i do not have to much room. gp is still going out with me to see 
about the size. 
but just for that (almost all the things i need) its 264.23 and with 
tax and i think i need a little more stuff to so............   
thats a lot of money i was thinking 150.00 maybe 200.00 but 
its over 60.00 more then what i was thinking have that is 
not paying verey one that is helping if i need to pay them.
i know the price is prople not that bad but... what do you 
guys think i could do?


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

ok well turns out i can have it 12L/ 6W/ 6T
That means the inside part will be 6 by 6 by 6
and the outside would be the same 6 by 6 by 6
- 1 foot and 1/4 for the nesting boxes.
Should i take the 1 1/4 off of the outside cage or inside cage part?
Wich do you think is best?
I think its a go for the cage , cuz me and the other guy building it took about 80.00 off the totel 
so now it is about 170.00 - 190.00 or so with out tax.


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

i keep runing in to problems with this thing.
i well have all the money after i get paid so thats good.
i know how it is going to look and were it is going.
BUT the main problem is that i need to bild it were it is going
and the loft my birds are in is siting there and is going to be HARD
to move. 
i/we welll make this loft tho  
i well keep you guys updated win we start bilding


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Michelle,

It sounds like you are working really hard to build the best loft/aviary that you can for your birds. I know it isn't easy, and it isn't cheap. I'm sure it will all work out just fine in the end. I can't offer any decent advice because I am "construction challenged" .. I couldn't build anything if my life depended on it. Hopefully some of our more "construction talented" members will be along to offer some comments.

Terry


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

well thank you  Terry
i have two ppl that know how to build helping me so....
the building part should not be that hard it is just getting there. 
what one guy said it will take just a week or so to build it. 
then its all my work on painting. i would really like to make it biger but there is no way.
thanks for the help i really like hearing what you guys have to say


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

We wint out and bought everthing for the floor to day.  
i am going to paint tomarrow then we will start building.


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## Pigeon lower (Oct 23, 2007)

i think the inside should be abit bigger because they will be in at night and alot of the bad weather days thats just my opinion


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Hi Michelle,

I think *there is a "formula" for how much room each bird should have.*

I don't remember who gave it, but I'm sure one of the members will know.

I didn't write it down because Squeaks is ONE bird and has almost 860 sq. ft. of space (a.k.a. "my apartment")! 

I'm sure that's enough for one bird - especially one who sits on an egg alot!   

Shi & Squeaks


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

Thanks I was thinking that to Pigeon lower....
Mr. Squeaks i know the math thing but thank you 
it goes L X W X H / 12. 


How big do you think I should have the inside?
I do not want the outside to be to small cuz my birds LOVE the outside
part and I do not free fly them so..... There aloud out from about 
6:00 A.M. till 10:00 P.M. Right now, Win it gets cold I will 
have the outside part raped up so they can still fly in it. And the inside
well be heated. 

By the math it says the full loft can hold 36 birds and the inside by 
its self can have 18 not adding to nesting boxes. I am going to put 
about 14 of my pigeons in there, most are family that are in a 
smaller loft together right now and have lived with each other
from almost day one. So I do not think that they will fight or any thing.

But I really would love to hear what you think for the size.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Unfortunately, Math and I are NOT friends! 

I feel VERY fortunate that I CAN add, subtract, multiply & divide (by the "old fashion" ways) and balance my checkbook. Anything higher and you've lost me.

I'll let the more knowledgeable members deal with all the math!    

Shi


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

ok thats fine


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

vegeta2802 said:


> i keep runing in to problems with this thing.
> i well have all the money after i get paid so thats good.
> i know how it is going to look and were it is going.
> BUT the main problem is that i need to bild it were it is going
> ...


Believe me, I know what you mean by running into problems! I have been working on mine for close to two years now and sometimes it seems like two steps forward, three steps back!  Just keep your sights on the finished product and you will get there.

As far as numbers goes, everyone has a different opinion (big shock there!). The way I figured mine was 2 square feet of interior space per bird. I did not take into acount the aviary space because the majority of time will be spent inside (remember they are in there all night), and it is the air quality that is the big issue. It can get very dusty and stuffy in there when you put just a few extra birds in. So by my estimate, and remember this is just me, I wouldn't put more than 15 birds in the space you mention. Also, don't forget that you have to take into acount the babies that will be raised in there too. I know that isn't what you wanted to hear but that's where I would be on it. 

Some would say that I am too conservative with these estimates but I am well aware of the problems that can raise their ugly head due to overcrowding and I am just not willing to risk it. It takes rigorous and sometimes heartwrenching population control (taking eggs, separating sexes, etc.) to really maintain a healthy environment for your colony but I think you will be happy with the results. I am sure your birds will! Just remember that rabbits have nothing on pigeons when it comes to reproducing and if allowed, they will raise babies year round! 

Hope this helps,

Dan


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Lovebirds (Renee) submited this recently on another thread. Hope it helps.

It is important to make it large enough so the birds don't stress out.

Here is what she wrote:

When figuring how many birds you can put in a loft, you don't figure the aviary into the dimensions. 
OK. you've got 40"wide which is 3'6"
74"long which is 6'2"
40"tall which is 3'6"

3'6" x 6'2" = 22.32 x 3'6"= 80.36 divided by 15 = 5.35 or 5 birds.


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

learning said:


> Believe me, I know what you mean by running into problems! I have been working on mine for close to two years now and sometimes it seems like two steps forward, three steps back!  Just keep your sights on the finished product and you will get there.


thanks, I well i have been winting the build for over a year so not that 
I/we started I well not stop tell we are done. My bird-es need there new
loft. : D



learning said:


> and it is the air quality that is the big issue.


Well I will see about how much air I can have going it in the day.
i well have one window.



learning said:


> It can get very dusty and stuffy in there when you put just a few extra birds in. So by my estimate, and remember this is just me, I wouldn't put more than 15 birds in the space you mention. Also, don't forget that you have to take into acount the babies that will be raised in there too. I know that isn't what you wanted to hear but that's where I would be on it.


no learning that is what i wont to hear in a way and it means is you care
about your and my birds just like i do. SO THANK YOU  
i asked for what you guys think so i can do the best for my babies (wich are
not really babies lol) and if that means redoing something then i guess that
is what i have to do. right? : D



learning said:


> Hope this helps,
> 
> Dan


it dose THANK YOU AND EVERONE THAT IS HELPING  

P.S. 
I know that all the birds I am puting in it now is about all I am
going to have in there. The # I said is more then what I am puting in there
the smaller loft with the family is olny 10 birds so....


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

Hi everone, Just letting you know we got the floor 
done to day here is some pic for you. What do you think?
http://pets.webshots.com/album/560893698fTrAba?vhost=pets


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Looks like a good framing job, Michele  You may just get this all done
before the weather gets too bad which will be great for you and the birds.
Congrats on making some good progress.

fp


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

Sure hope it well be done in the month the floor olny took the guy a few hours (about 2-3 1/2). It all on how fast i can buy the items and paint 
more then the building part. lol


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

Well yesterday they got the walls up. YEA!!!!!!!!!!!!!   
I have the pictures in my Webshots if you guys would like to look.
We were going to do the roof but it started raining so its off for today.
It also says it is going to be raining almost all week so we will see.
My GP made me about 30-40 perches so thats done.
We still have to make netting boxies.
After we are done with that mom and I are going to do the rist.
(inside walls flooring and all that).  

So what do you think how dose it look?


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Wow, Michelle! Your new loft is really looking good! I know you are very excited and anxious to have it done. Please keep the pictures coming!

Terry


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

You are doing a wonderful job, Michelle! How lucky that you have your grandpa and mom to help you out, I bet it's a fun (if hard) family project. Imagine how great you'll feel when it's all done and the best part....when you get to move the birds in and see how much they love it.  Keep up the great work and we all look forward to the future pictures!!


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

Thank you you guys


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Looking good! I bet you and your pigeons are going to be happy!

Keep the pictures coming by all means as you progress.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Michelle, this is very cool that your Mom and Grandpa are helping you out
w/this project.....and it's looking great  I know your positively psyched 
and just can't wait so you and the pijies can start moving in....just remember
you still have to sleep in the house @ night  

fp


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

*thank again and i will have more pics later *



Victor said:


> Looking good! I bet you and your pigeons are going to be happy!
> 
> Keep the pictures coming by all means as you progress.


I well.


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

feralpigeon said:


> Michelle, this is very cool that your Mom and Grandpa are helping you out
> w/this project.....and it's looking great  I know your positively psyched
> and just can't wait so you and the pijies can start moving in....just remember
> you still have to sleep in the house @ night
> ...



lol its dad, grandpa, friend, mom, and me lol : D
Do I really still have to sleep in the house?


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

Hey everyone,
I have a ? again lol
My dad would like to know if we could use drywall in the loft?
I sayed no we can not but am not sure. So he would like to
see what you say and if yes what type. again i do not think 
useing it is a good thing but would like to see what you say
(well dad would).


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

vegeta2802 said:


> Hey everyone,
> I have a ? again lol
> My dad would like to know if we could use drywall in the loft?
> I sayed no we can not but am not sure. So he would like to
> ...



I guess you COULD.........but you'll find that the walls need to be washed down once in a while. Trust me, if it's possible to poop on it, a pigeon WILL. Even the ceiling!!! LOL
I would go with something that can be wet down and washed with no problem.


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

Ok thanks
I know about the poo thing lol  
I just was thinking there was something but in the drywall.
What do you think is best for the walls? I was looking
at this water reticent bored I can not remember the name sorry.
we were thinking maybe for now I could use shower cretins. 
What do you think?


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## A_Smith (Aug 8, 2006)

vegeta2802 said:


> Hey everyone,
> I have a ? again lol
> My dad would like to know if we could use drywall in the loft?
> (well dad would).


I myself would not use drywall in loft. Drywall will hold moisture in wet weather. If the exterior plywood is enuff support for the loft walls. You can leave studs on the inside exposed. This will make easyer to mount perches, nest boxes. Also thin plywood.  OR if you find some cheap panneling on sale or FREE at a hardware store that wants to sell the last few pices cheap ( I'd put the finished side to studs so plywood is in loft) This will make a very durrable dry wall. If you want the walls white like drywall just add paint. Also the thin plywood is much lighter to build with, and I beleive will last much longer.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

A_Smith said:


> I myself would not use drywall in loft. Drywall will hold moisture in wet weather. If the exterior plywood is enuff support for the loft walls. You can leave studs on the inside exposed. This will make easyer to mount perches, nest boxes. Also thin plywood.  OR if you find some cheap panneling on sale or FREE at a hardware store that wants to sell the last few pices cheap ( I'd put the finished side to studs so plywood is in loft) This will make a very durrable dry wall. If you want the walls white like drywall just add paint. Also the thin plywood is much lighter to build with, and I beleive will last much longer.



We used the old paneling from our family room that hubby took down when he drywalled the room. Painted it white and that was 6 years ago. Still in fine shape. I agree. Scratch the drywall.


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

I would worry about them eating the drywall if any of it was cracked.  At one place we had an island at the top of the staircase that had wear and tear from the previous tenants, and my birds were quick to jump on there and peck away at it (they liked it better than their grit, even ). I had to keep it covered all the time. Or maybe that was just particularly tasty plaster at that apartment.  I think plywood would work out just fine.


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

maryjane said:


> I would worry about them eating the drywall if any of it was cracked.


See thats what I think to and way I sayed no to useing it.

I did find this 8$ bored that I can use the stuff wipes right off.


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

well hi again
I got the inside of my loft done yesterday and my pigeons 
(the one i made the loft for) wint out in it last night.  
I well take pics a little later and post them for you guys.  
We are still working on the out side cage part but i was 
not going to let them in that part in the cold any way so.......


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

Heres a few pics


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)




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## Grim (Jul 28, 2007)

Very nice they already look content. Good job!


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

They sure look happy!!  It looks very nice, you guys did a great job. I'm sure they are enjoying it a lot.


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

thank you for the nice comments  
they seem happy to me to.


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