# How to kill mices without hurting birds?



## chayi (May 1, 2010)

I have a problem with small mices all under my loft and around the loft eating and drinking my birds feed, and some time or other killing some baby birds. Today I used some rat poison pellets and cake bars under and around the loft. My concern is that a friend of mine told me that the mice eats the pellets and die once they drink water, will they contaminate my birds drinking water with poison once they drink? Has anyone ever used rat poison for mice around the loft?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

The poison will kill them, but you will have to take care of the dead ones and get them out of the loft. your best bet for in the long run is to make the loft mouse proof and then you won't have to use poison or worry about them bringing disease to your birds with their droppings. 1/4 inch hardware cloth on any wire cages, not sure what your set up looks like so a picture would help if you can afford to go the route of mouse proofing your loft, it will be snake proof also , if mice get in so can snakes that like to eat eggs and babies..and sometimes try to swallow the adults at night. the poison is also dangerouse to domestic pets like cats and dogs and other animals you don't want to harm that may catch and eat a dieing mouse.


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

It is "mice" or "mouse". But never "mices" or "mouses". And for sure, not "meeces" 

Ha Ha


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

conditionfreak said:


> It is "mice" or "mouse". But never "mices" or "mouses". And for sure, not "meeces"
> 
> Ha Ha


ha ha.. silvester the cat says "meecessess"...


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

chayi said:


> I have a problem with small mices all under my loft and around the loft eating and drinking my birds feed, and some time or other killing some baby birds. Today I used some rat poison pellets and cake bars under and around the loft. My concern is that a friend of mine told me that the mice eats the pellets and die once they drink water, will they contaminate my birds drinking water with poison once they drink? Has anyone ever used rat poison for mice around the loft?


I wasthinking if these mice are around your loft, how could they drink water from your pigeon's drinkers? do they also get inside also? if yes, then anything can like snakes!!


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## chayi (May 1, 2010)

You can see my loft in my foto album here in pigeon talk, I have the front and floor with 1x1 inch wire mesh under the floor is about 1ft space then what I did was I put a sand pit under the loft so that way all I do is on weekends when I cut the grass I rake the pigeon poop under the loft and it stays clean. The weather is always nice here so the loft is more open. About snakes it's no problem here, most predators here are hawk, cats and rats.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I would re-wrap it with 1/4 inch hardwire, leave the bottom wire so droppings can go through, BUT, enclose under it and have a door to open so you can rake out the droppings. also pick up any grains and seeds in the feeders and do not leave any food over night..that should help.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

I viewed the photos of your loft.

Another solution, in addition to the quarter-inch hardware cloth, would be to make the loft more inaccessible to mice by raising the loft about two feet higher off the ground by using metal (or plastic) pipes attached to the sides of the loft by brackets, or metal strapping.

Then move the loft a few feet away from any fencing. Put flaring (cut with tinsnips from tin cans or scrap metal sheeting) around the pipes 16 inches or so above the ground around the support pipes, so the mice cannot climb past them. The flaring should be conical in shape, like the metal flaring on ship's hawsers which prevent rats from accessing a ship while in harbour by means of the hawsers. 

Mice can jump 40 cm, or 16 inches. I have observed this. They can climb up wallpaper, ornamental iron table legs, wooden table legs. I have observed this also. 

I have caught thirty-five to forty-five mice in the house last year, and released them in a nearby park, with access to food. I have used five or six different types of humane traps, and other improvised techniques, and for the past winter I have had five mice in three cages. They spend half the night on their exercise wheels, and rip newspapers to shreds for bedding. Six additional mice in the cages were killed by their cage mates. After this happened, I read that male mice, even siblings, will kill each other. Mice are more aggressive than rats in this respect, according to what I have read. Still have one female mouse on the loose.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If mice are getting in your loft, or into the seed and water, they could already be poisoning your birds. They will spread Salmonella/Paratyphoid to your birds.


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## chayi (May 1, 2010)

Honestly no one has never seen mice under or around there loft? Or has had baby birds killed by mice?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I'm sure they have. And many come on all the time who have sick birds that are dying from Salmonella that they caught from rodents. Or a whole loft of birds killed in one night from rats.
Don't you think it's better to make the loft rodent and predator proof? Saves a whole lot of problems. Doesn't take much either.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

chayi said:


> Honestly no one has never seen mice under or around there loft? Or has had baby birds killed by mice?


I think if there are a population they will always be there, one just has to make it impossible for them to live off the grains that they are after in the loft to keep them out, which is importanat as jay3 has said, they pee and poo all over, part of good Animal husbandtry is to keep their home clean and vermin proof.


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## chayi (May 1, 2010)

Thank you all... I will close the loft at the bottom with 2x4s wood and plan to change the front thats 1x1 inch wire to expanded metal was also thinking in putting the feeders raised to the wall with a 18 in wide shelve. Just some new ideas


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## chayi (May 1, 2010)

Shelve will be 18inches by 48inches make two with two feeders so the food won't be on the floor what's ever on the floor poop or left over food will be scraped and clean.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Great ideas. Then you can work on getting rid of the mice. Have you considered a cat?


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

Another solution is to take better care of your mice. Feed them well, and medicate them. So that they do not get diseases that can hurt your birds.








(it's called a joke)


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

When I mentioned raising your loft on metal pipes in my earlier post, there was something I neglected to add.

In the photos of your loft, in your albums, I saw that the opening for the trap on your loft appears to be permanently open, and therefore accessible to mice and any other animals that could enter the trap. (Including hawks?).

If you were to close the trap when you are not around, or at night, then perhaps the mice could not enter that way. Using quarter-inch hardware cloth or 6 mm mesh wire over all open surfaces would keep mice and snakes out.

If you kill the mice, you will attract flies and possibly other scavengers wanting to eat the dead mice, and you could exacerbate the problem. 

If the amount of dropped seeds available to the mice is limited, you will attract a limited number of mice.

I took my wife's aunt to visit a friend of hers with dementia, living in a modern nursing home (_De Bijster_ in Essen, Netherlands). A wall in one of the spacious hallways was comprised of plate glass, and one could look out at a nice grassy lawn, and at a tree surrounded by ivy, next to the glass. There was a bird feeder hanging from a lower tree limb, and I saw four mice darting back and forth from under the tree roots to pick up fallen seeds. A bird or two, too large to land on the feeder, looked on at the mice appropriating the seeds. This was in winter.

I don't keep or raise pigeons for racing or for show, and therefore don't have a loft to maintain, and therefore can't speak from the experience of those who do. 

Bt I do know that mice are quite persistent and work hard. They have to. LOL.

*Jay3*, wouldn't a cat stress the pigeons out in a loft? I know that the occasional rescue I house in a pet carrier on the back porch (wood pigeons and rock doves) aren't too fond of the neighbouring three cats which make their rounds here.


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## sport14692 (Jan 3, 2011)

conditionfreak said:


> It is "mice" or "mouse". But never "mices" or "mouses". And for sure, not "meeces"
> 
> Ha Ha


LMFAO !!!!!!!


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## sport14692 (Jan 3, 2011)

conditionfreak said:


> Another solution is to take better care of your mice. Feed them well, and medicate them. So that they do not get diseases that can hurt your birds.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Man, you have me rolling over here in my office, LOL !!!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Larry_Cologne said:


> When I mentioned raising your loft on metal pipes in my earlier post, there was something I neglected to add.
> 
> In the photos of your loft, in your albums, I saw that the opening for the trap on your loft appears to be permanently open, and therefore accessible to mice and any other animals that could enter the trap. (Including hawks?).
> 
> ...


*
*

A pet carrier on the back porch is a lot different than a building, a loft. If the cat can't get in, and the birds are inside safe, it isn't going to bother them all that much.


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## chayi (May 1, 2010)

Yes i have a wooden door on the trap that I close at night and after all the birds are in. Also there are stray cats in the area but can't get in or under the loft I've even caught one sleeping on the landing board but they can't get in. birds just fly to there perch. I also have a dog that chances the cats but the dog just looks at the birds doesn't bother them. I already got the expanded metal and this weekend will get the 2x4s to close in the bottom. That way it will be even better to walk in also.


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## nitamircela (Oct 28, 2008)

Chayi, I do not know how your loft looks like and how you know for sure that the mice did the damage mentioned to your birds. But I know how to get rid of them with no poison: the famous bucket with water. Let me know if you are interested in more details. And if possible let me see your loft too.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

conditionfreak said:


> It is "mice" or "mouse". But never "mices" or "mouses". And for sure, not "meeces" .....


 ....but lookout for their feces


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## TwinTurboPigeon (Jan 22, 2013)

Mouse are inside the house, rat are outside of the house. So when a rat comes inside the house, it is a mouse since it is inside.

-Scary Movie 3


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## chayi (May 1, 2010)

Mice..mices.. Meces...mouse or mouses ahhhhh this thread is driving me crazy


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## Jason Heidlauf (Apr 2, 2012)

I hate snakes more than hawks yukkkkkk


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## ProFox (Mar 13, 2013)

I would still use preventative measures year round by keeping poison bait stations or traps around the outside perimeter of the loft. The bait should be kept in a secure bait station and should be the wax block type (not the loose pellet type). Most baits that can be purchased over the counter don't have a risk of secondary poisoning, so you don't have to worry about hurting animals that might eat the mouse once it's died. Personally I would kill the current population of mice by placing the good old fashioned victor snap traps around the loft. You can prevent injuries to your birds by drilling small holes (big enough for mice) in an upside down bucket or tote. Just set the traps where the mice are used to feeding and place the bucket over the top and reset until you go about a week without catching anything. Then put down the bait stations.


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## treejumper (Mar 6, 2013)

ProFox said:


> I would still use preventative measures year round by keeping poison bait stations or traps around the outside perimeter of the loft. The bait should be kept in a secure bait station and should be the wax block type (not the loose pellet type). Most baits that can be purchased over the counter don't have a risk of secondary poisoning, so you don't have to worry about hurting animals that might eat the mouse once it's died. Personally I would kill the current population of mice by placing the good old fashioned victor snap traps around the loft. You can prevent injuries to your birds by drilling small holes (big enough for mice) in an upside down bucket or tote. Just set the traps where the mice are used to feeding and place the bucket over the top and reset until you go about a week without catching anything. Then put down the bait stations.


Simple Keep Poison under Loft.


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## Jason Heidlauf (Apr 2, 2012)

here is a link to a poison free rodent control 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncEVHthmGNE


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

On a more serious response from me (since I started out joking about the "mices" thing).

I do not like to kill, so what I do is I have a tall bucket (about 18 inches high), that has grain in it. No lid. I put this bucket next to something that mice can get up high on. Like a wall, or cardboard box, or whatever. Mice climb really well.

The mice will jump into the bucket to get at the old pigeon grain. But it is too high for them to jump or climb out of.

Then I take this bucket containing one or three mice, to a field far away, and dump the mice. They may live on, or they may become predator food. Who knows. But they have a mouses chance of surviving, and I have not killed them.

I can live with that.

Where I am located, it is mostly country, with very large expanses of open fields everywhere. Bottom line is, it is easy to catch them alive, and it is easy to dump them in the wild.

I do a similar thing with raccoons and moles I capture on my property. I take them far away and dump them. But never near someone elses home.

I just wish people would stop dumping cats near or on my property. My dogs kill them before I even know they are there. In ten years here, I estimate that two dozen cats have been dumped on my property. Almost all are dead soon after arrivel. I think that people wanting to get rid of cats, believe because I have a barn type structure and am in the country, that the cats will find plenty of mice and shelter. Or they think that I will appreciate a rodent catcher here. They are wrong. My dogs are much more attentive than I, and the final result sickens me.

If I am in the mood, I can live catch a raccoon most any night. If I catch an opposum, I let it go here. I know they can "take" pigeons, but I have never experienced a problem with them yet.

Snakes I also capture and dump. But I take them at least 6 miles away, as I have heard they will eventually come back home if not taken too far.

I have never captured a hawk. I understand they can not be dumped far away, as they are like homing pigeons and will return. I know it is illegal to trap them, but IF I EVER DID, my only option would be to take them on a long trip and hope they did not come home. And hope they don't have a nest with babies in it.

It is hard to be a pigeon keeper, with all of the pitfalls that plague this sport. Hawks, rodents, neighbors, and PETA.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I don't understand why so many people think it's a better idea to kill everything that might bother their birds. Everything has a right to live. When most things can easily be caught and removed. I don't like to kill anything unless there is absolutely no other way. Killing them when not needed is just the easy way. The lazy way.


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## ProFox (Mar 13, 2013)

And I don't understand why so many people are so ignorant that they would feel bad about killing an animal responsible for killing millions of people by way of disease. This site is crawling with you eco terrorists. Don't get me wrong, I love animals but if a Pest is messing with my pigeons, it's going down! You call it lazy, I call it plain common sense.


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

You have a good point.

We should kill every automobile we come into contact with. Plus, every gun should be killed. Every bottle of alcohol and every drug dealer.

Along with every human, because they are just plain trouble, and have killed more than any other living thing. What was the holocauset? Six million. WWI, WWII, Civil War. Revolutionary War. The Crusades, 50,000 in Viet Nam. etc., etc., and etc.

Pesky little human beans (beings).


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## ProFox (Mar 13, 2013)

I should clarify on what I would do in the scenarios of a pest. All city and counties have laws regarding nuisance wildlife and those laws should be followed. Most places do not allow skunks or other vector species to be relocated. By moving animals you run the risk of spreading disease and by trying to save one you could kill hundreds. They have done studies that prove these animals don't usually survive after being relocated. I do believe a critter has the right to be a critter and live and be free. I think it's the owners responsibility to keep their birds safe from these animals by having a critter proof loft. If the animal starts causing damage then it's time to get rid of it. This can be done by using scare tactics or some kind of repellent or trapping. You could also call a private nuisance wildlife company to do the job. I use a motion activated sprinkler as my first line of defense. Mice should be controlled year round to prevent disease and over population of the animals that eat mice. Animals that eat mice also eat pigeons. If somebody wants to live trap them, power to them but don't try and make anybody else feel bad about killing some mice or any other nuisance animal for that matter. Like it or not, this is how it's done.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

ProFox said:


> *And I don't understand why so many people are so ignorant that they would feel bad about killing an animal responsible for killing millions of people by way of disease. *This site is crawling with you eco terrorists. Don't get me wrong, I love animals but if a Pest is messing with my pigeons, it's going down! You call it lazy, I call it plain common sense.



You are the ignorant one, in that if others disagree with you, you have to name call. Just because you are a control freak, and want to stomp on anything that gets in your way, doesn't make you right. You have your opinion, and others have theirs. I can see killing when nothing else works. But sometimes there are other ways.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

ProFox said:


> And I don't understand why so many people are so ignorant that they would feel bad about killing an animal responsible for killing millions of people by way of disease. This site is crawling with you eco terrorists. Don't get me wrong, I love animals but if a Pest is messing with my pigeons, it's going down! You call it lazy, I call it plain common sense.


Be careful what you say. Calling people eco terrorists is plain insulting, as well as showing a lack of knowledge of the subject.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Jay3 said:


> You are the ignorant one, in that if others disagree with you, you have to name call. Just because you are a control freak, and want to stomp on anything that gets in your way, doesn't make you right. You have your opinion, and others have theirs. I can see killing when nothing else works. But sometimes there are other ways.


Accusing someone of name calling, then calling them names does not further anything positive.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

ProFox said:


> I should clarify on what I would do in the scenarios of a pest. All city and counties have laws regarding nuisance wildlife and those laws should be followed. Most places do not allow skunks or other vector species to be relocated. By moving animals you run the risk of spreading disease and by trying to save one you could kill hundreds. They have done studies that prove these animals don't usually survive after being relocated.* I do believe a critter has the right to be a critter and live and be free. I think it's the owners responsibility to keep their birds safe from these animals by having a critter proof loft. If the animal starts causing damage then it's time to get rid of it*. This can be done by using scare tactics or some kind of repellent or trapping. You could also call a private nuisance wildlife company to do the job. I use a motion activated sprinkler as my first line of defense. Mice should be controlled year round to prevent disease and over population of the animals that eat mice. Animals that eat mice also eat pigeons. If somebody wants to live trap them, power to them but don't try and make anybody else feel bad about killing some mice or any other nuisance animal for that matter. Like it or not, this is how it's done.


This is MY stand on rodents!
Years ago I lost roughly 30 birds in one night to a Norway (brown) rat attack I was so distraught at the site that I couldn't even count them as I bagged (some of my favorite) birds. Before this happened, I tried all the 'friendly' ways to deter, eliminate and get rid of the rats and mice.......obviously none of them worked! Rodents are determined, so consequently I had to use extreme measures and got rid of every last one of them .........I don't like killing either, but I have to protect my birds.
Since moving to a new house, and building my new lofts like Fort Knox, I still find myself fighting rodents! They can't get inside the lofts or flight cages....I put 1/2 wire mesh in the ground and connected to the walls, but they are still trying to tunnel underneath! I'm constantly after them with concrete and the garden hose.
I can't use poison. My yard is completely fenced in with my dogs having full run of it. The rodents know the dogs are there, therefore I never see them, I just find their tunnels.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

vermin and ticks and fleas and chiggers, how much we try we will never get rid of them.. it is too bad our disappearing Quail flocks in va do not have the same constitution to survive as those pests do. I have "saved" voles from my cat though.. their soft.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The first step is in first making sure your lofts are as Waynette said, Like fort knox.
And if you leave feed out in the aviaries, or allow it to fall through a wire floor, or metal mesh floor with holes in it, you are attracting more rodents. Rats are hard, as they are often too smart to go into a trap, and they just keep coming. With rats, you really do need to make it impossible to get in. 
Waynette, maybe what you need to do is to get a brown snake. They just love rats. 
Sometimes they leave you no choice.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Jay3 said:


> The first step is in first making sure your lofts are as Waynette said, Like fort knox.
> And if you leave feed out in the aviaries, or allow it to fall through a wire floor, or metal mesh floor with holes in it, you are attracting more rodents. Rats are hard, as they are often too smart to go into a trap, and they just keep coming. With rats, you really do need to make it impossible to get in.
> *Waynette, maybe what you need to do is to get a brown snake. They just love rats. *
> Sometimes they leave you no choice.


 No Snakes! I don't do Snakes, I'm terrified of Garter Snakes!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Msfreebird said:


> No Snakes! I don't do Snakes, I'm terrified of Garter Snakes!


LOL!


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## chayi (May 1, 2010)

Ok today I finished some work on my loft to make it tighter so hopefully no rodents get in the loft but I did actually put rat poison around and under the loft and did find some dead mice a total of 6 everything is all clean now. Now I was reading on talons page where he just finished this beautiful loft and plans to put chickens under the loft for them to eat all the left over feed now that's an Idea to think about... Sorry but honestly I can't see relocating mice or not wanting to kill mice that can hurt my birds, pets, fruits, vegetables or my family it's my honest opinion... Now the chicken thing sound like a good idea.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

chayi said:


> Ok today I finished some work on my loft to make it tighter so hopefully no rodents get in the loft but I did actually put rat poison around and under the loft and did find some dead mice a total of 6 everything is all clean now. Now I was reading on talons page where he just finished this beautiful loft and plans to put chickens under the loft for them to eat all the left over feed now that's an Idea to think about... Sorry but honestly I can't see relocating mice or not wanting to kill mice that can hurt my birds, pets, fruits, vegetables or my family it's my honest opinion... Now the chicken thing sound like a good idea.


The chicken thing under the loft. I do not think is a good idea. A person I know tried that a few years ago. They ended up Getting salmenela In there birds lost a few had to do a full loft treatment And pulled the chickens out from under the loft Had no problems since. Buillding the loft highenough to rack under the loft Works better. If the floor is grated. If not keeping the loft clen of spilled feed Help deture mice. But when it comes to it a person needs to do you what think they should to insure mice are not a problem.


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

I think I read that Talon is thinking of putting chickens under his new loft. Hope he reads this!


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## whytwings (Feb 12, 2011)

I don't believe that is such a good idea either . The same rules that apply to housing pigeons should apply to chickens .I wonder how they'd be able to get off the ground to roost or escape dampness .They also require good ventilation , no drafts , dry & water tight housing , protection from lice & mites and vermin including predators and access to sunshine. Being plonked under someones pigeon loft should be of concern !


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes, if one were to keep chickens under their loft, that would be mean, and horrible for the chickens, who need clean conditions and sunlight and all that was mentioned, as well as the pigeons. Terrible idea.


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