# Feral Pigeon Rescue, now what?



## nukekyra (Apr 25, 2016)

Hi all, 

I work at a nuclear power plant in the environmental department here in South West Michigan. Three weeks ago someone dropped off a bucket in my office, inside, a young pigeon baby. Do I call it a squab? s/he already had some feathers. I immediately went on a google search for what to do and what to feed (the poor thing had been in the bucket all day since I am currently working nights). I found someone who posted day by day photos of hatched squabs so I put this little one at about 13-16 days old.

Somehow my husband and I have done alright because Lucy (male or female) has been growing and doing well.

However, the reason we are doing this is because not one bird sanctuary (of four in the area) nor rehabilitators would take her when I called. Wild pigeons can be hunted here year round and are considered a nuisance where I work.

I am fast nearing a difficult moment. I think I am as attached to Lucy as she is to us. My initial attempts to keep her from getting accustomed to people are gone, now that we know she’s healthy I can’t deny her the company, comfort and touch she craves.

I saw a lot of online blogs with stories of rescued feral pigeons and many said they released. I am not sure what to do. I can’t take her back to my work place (my original plan due to the community of pigeons we had) because I believe the reason she was found is that (much to my chagrin- but ironically out of our department’s control) they did a pigeon cull by poisoning food. If I take her to the town nearby (10 miles) there is a nice community of pigeons getting treats from people and left alone, but I’m afraid s/he will fly back to my home. I live along Lake Michigan, I don’t want her flying alone getting attacked by a hawk.

Anyone have suggestions? Would looking to see if the nearest place (Chicago, which is 2hrs away seems to be the only option) will take her makes sense, or is she attached as well? Our plan B is to build an outside loft (but we can’t go big because we live in a condo!) and perhaps either getting her a companion or allowing her that free range opportunity here since I hear from everyone she’ll be homing in on here.

Does anyone know of anyone in the area? I live 45 minutes from Kalamazoo and 40min from South Bend, Indiana.

Last issue: I have two cats and a small dog. I have kept her away from them because until I know what to do, I don’t want her to grow accustomed to them.

Any tips and help is appreciated. I love this little creature and want her to have the best possible chance at a great long life but I am not experienced with birds.


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## Hatoful (Apr 12, 2016)

I don't think she'll survive on her own if she was raised by people. :I


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

It is a difficult decision and I know you are attached. Since you live in a condo unless you own the condo it would not be the best idea to build a loft unless you could break it down and bring it with you in the future. Like you say it would have to be small and the weather in Michigan is very very cold as well. You could have a handy person build you a nice large cage and have it inside your house and get another pigeon for its companion for they like company but there is a downside to this as well for the dust "unless" you have good ventilation would be a great factor plus all the trash that they create. Now if you have some kind of porch or balcony----that might be something in the way of a "soft release" they call it. Thanks for taking care of this pigeon and saving its life. I hope there will be more opinions for you to consider. Pigeons make wonderful pets and I do have a single one in my house by the name of Catnip but she gets her feathers stroked everyday as my TV News Buddy and since she is a female she lays a lot of eggs that I replace with plastic ones so as to not have any more pigeons. She is disabled and at this point cannot be put in the loft with the other birdies but I am attached to her as "a house pet", her name is Catnip. Here is her picture.



Here is another picture of the whole cage and in actually there are two windows but one "at this time of year" has a blanket in front of it to keep out the drafts..Drafts kill birdies..


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

You can look at the Members List and search for PT members living in Michigan.
Since I'm from Texas and living in Belgium, you can probably identify the cities and towns nearest you more quickly than I can. You can look at the member profiles. Some do rescue and re-hab. Some have a lot of experience with soft releases.

I have released rescues in Cologne, Germany, and in Antwerp, successfully (and out of necessity). I took my rescues to a local flock, and slowly let them get used to the idea of other pigeons. A couple of them learned to peck for food and forage on their own this way. I made sure they were not spooked into flying off by bringing them into contact with the flock, but letting them only observe the first few times. Then I let them peck with the flock a few times, but encouraged them to return to me. When they had confidence, they chose when to go. 

This is a very condensed version of my release efforts. 

Others here will have various opinions, and some conflicting opinions. All of the opinions are of value, since they afford differing perspectives.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

Perhaps this place in eastern MI can advise you on where to get some help:

(From http://wildbird.rescueshelter.com/Michigan)

Wild Wings Wild Bird Rehab (Shelter #1150715) x
Oakland County hazel park, MI 48030

CONTACT: Marg Sapp 248-701-2523
State, federaIIy and internationaIIy permitted. Open year round. Accepts Songbirds (robins, starIings, sparrows, finches ect.) Crows, Jays, Ravens, woodpeckers, and *doves/pigeons* ONLY! **AbsoIuteIy NO waterfowI/ wiId pouItry, raptors, hummingbirds, swifts or swaIIows ALLOWED**


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## nukekyra (Apr 25, 2016)

Thank you all for your advice.
I was thinking of a soft release as well or getting a companion for Lucy was soon as we can figure out what gender!

A few replies:
I can't see the photos!  They didn't link. I'd love to see them.

Also, I do own the condo (and fortunately am on the Association board- LOL) and it has a lovely and large back deck where we could build an outside loft and then get a winter cage for the colder months. That is not going to be an issue. The way the land is here, the deck is more like an elevated balcony. I even have the option of using the entire area underneath (it's greater than 5 feet off the ground since I am 5'4" and can walk a little hunched underneath.) that would make is a very large at least 5X10X5 area. 

Lucy has really taught me a lot about pigeons. I'm an animal lover, or admirer and "respecter" better put. But even then, I never thought pigeons can be so tender and attached. Have personality and like to play. Lucy already gets playful with me and seems to like being tickled. 

But I do not want my attachment to cloud my judgment. However, I can't have judgement because I don't know what the best thing to do is. 
So thank you all, and I will accept all advice and tips!


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Since you saved this pigeons life and got it as a squab I would keep it as a pet for I do not believe it would do well in the wild. There are lots of dangers out there for pigeons especially ones that were raised in captivity. Gosh it sounds like you have a real nice set up to think about putting in a loft and fly pen for a few pigeons and you can learn all about them as well. In the loft section on here it gives you some information and pictures and on how to build one or maybe have it built if you are not handy with building. People on here could help you...I will try those two links again and I do not know why you could not bring them up but here goes...I get the pictures fine and I wonder if other people cannot see the pictures as well. Please let me know...


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## nukekyra (Apr 25, 2016)

I can see the pictures now! Thank you! Catnip is beautiful. Yes, we are having th balcony/deck rebuilt next month or June so I think I will take the opportunity to have the underneath screened in so it's a big flight area and then above something usable all year but winter. I just ordered a large cage for inside outside for now. 

I am still either going to look for someone in the area who may own more pigeons to either adopt her or get her a companion.

It looks definitely like she (or he) has decided to live with humans. Today she took a very cuddly nap on my shoulder up against my cheek for an hour. She also took her first bath, it was pretty comical but I guess she really wanted it! 

Again, thank you for the advice and I am sure I will be asking more questions.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

They love to take baths and it helps them to relax as they sun in the sun....When you build this really think about how to do it and what I am trying to say----learn the pigeons needs and conditions that are healthy for them and it takes a lot of thinking,learning and focusing on the very right way to do this thing...Just tibbits here to consider...Bury the hard wire 18 inches below so soil so nothing digs in like predators (skunks, weasles, raccoons,)...Use hard wire less than 1/2 inch in spacing maybe a 1/4th size.. Find out the wind direction for good air supply and also a good sun exposure as well as shade. Also a good flooring and do not let the pigeons on the ground because they can get worms and dampness and this causes sickness. Have a bath area maybe with concrete and easy for you to get water. Have a shade area----it goes on and on and what I saying it is not like: "Oh we will build something today"...Educate yourself before time about food and water and temperature requirements and convenience of clean up and all the rest that you will have to consider.. Learn about lofts and fly pens and the know how that the pigeons "require", learn about predators and the like--cats, pigeon hawks, skunks, snakes, etc etc etc....Have fun with your education and read about the different lofts on here with the different pigeons and everything else. Any questions just ask on here for people will share their know how with you. Get a real good Avian Vet on line and get to know them that you can check your birdies poop once in awhile.. For pigeon supplies with a learning experience call up "Foy's" Pigeon Supply and this is toll free and ask them to send you their catalog in the mail-----well worth it just to get a general knowledge of things and some of the sicknesses pigeons can get. Their phone number is : 724-843-6889 and 1-877-355-7727 and www.Foyspigeonsupplies.com and their address is : 3185 Bennett's Run Road, Beaver Falls, Pennsylvania 15010-5270..Here is a picture of my loft and fly pen from the outside.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

c.hert, what a gorgeous loft and fly pen!


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Thanks cwebster but yours is going to be just as nice for you and yours are putting the effort into it and it comes little by little. You learn by the doing and using of it for the right outcome..I love how you painted yours to be very pretty and quaint from the outside and it makes a very good impression as well..Keep plugging away and as you wear your mask and pigeon clothing and keep the dust and feathers out of your living space you will get healthy once again every day.There are serious factors to consider when having Pigeons as pets and one of them is to have a supply of plastic pigeon eggs to set down to control the population for they are pigeon makers---etc---even two eggs at a time---it sure does add up as you are well aware of...lol..This new pigeon friend Nukekrya who is just starting out needs to know this from the beginning about their "productivity"...lol. He or she will learn...we have been there and still working within the boundaries here. lol..Thanks for the compliment..


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

BTW you can keep him/her outside year around, even where you are. Notice all the ferals outside? The key is access to food and liquid water, and of course a dry/draft free shelter area to get out of the wind and elements. You can add something like a reptile heating lamp in there if you want, though not necessary, and you can buy heaters for the water to keep them liquid. Your bird will eventually mature and show its sex but if you really want to know you can have him/her DNA tested, there are a few companies that do that....have not looked lately but I think it is something like $25


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

A sure fire way to tell the sex is when a female lays eggs...all our single girls have done this and it always is a shocker.


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## nukekyra (Apr 25, 2016)

cwebster said:


> A sure fire way to tell the sex is when a female lays eggs...all our single girls have done this and it always is a shocker.


Stupid question, I guess, but you mean to say that even alone she would lay an egg if she is a she, indeed?

Update so far is she will have nothing to do with her cage outside (I got a very large one (taller than me) while the deck is rebuilt and we do the underneath as I mentioned. She will stay by my side the whole time. She did a couple of short flights this week (very short) and immediately turned around and went back to me. She stayed on my shoulder and my husband's shoulder the whole two hours I was outside with her. 
She much prefers the basement/garage. I opened it and was doing some cleaning and she enjoyed that much more. Walking around the cement floor and flying to different things. I suppose she felt safe. 

I have accepted the reality that we have become her family. I now need to find her/him company but craigslist had nothing in the area.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Sounds like she is quite tame and should be your pet. She will lay eggs even if she has no mate if she is a girl.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Be careful in taking her outside, as eventually she will fly up where you cannot get to her, and she won't know how to get along outside on her own. Also, hawks swoop down and grab them quickly. If outside, she would be safer in an enclosure.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Jay3 said:


> Be careful in taking her outside, as eventually she will fly up where you cannot get to her, and she won't know how to get along outside on her own. Also, hawks swoop down and grab them quickly. If outside, she would be safer in an enclosure.


* PLEASE do take the above warning seriously, as we have seen these things happen more times then we can count. Thank you. Do not let the bird outside loose, without a carrier or enclosure.*


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## nukekyra (Apr 25, 2016)

Even if she hates being in the cage? Will she get used to it? Should I just let her fly in the basement?

Also, I have to go on a two day trip, should I take her with me? I think she will be very lonely for two days. Wonder if that could affect her emotional state. My dad used to keep pigeons and he said they are very sensitive little guys.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Agree very strongly with what others have said about not taking her outside unless in an escape proof container. Have heard about so many tragedies from predators swooping in and taking tame birds, and tame birds flying off never to,be seen again and probably killed by predators or humans because they were tame and unable to be with a flock or know how to survive. Would only let your bird fly indoors where there are no open windows or fans. Our first bird was a feral nearly decapitated by a fan and we are caring for a young scrub Jay who was being eaten by crows. If you want your bird to,live outside you need a predator proof cage. Re leaving for two days, don't know, have never left our birds that long. Maybe leaving a tv or radio on low might help. Is there a neighbor or friend who you could trust to,stop in and just talk to,your girl and make sure she has food and water? Travel is stressful too.


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## nukekyra (Apr 25, 2016)

Thank you for all the advice, it is taken seriously. And because you guys take the time to advise me, I know you care, so below are also my answers.

Answers: We have no fans in the house, definitely none where she is allowed to move about freely. The cage I got for now is predator proof but I only put her outside when I'm home because she seems to hate it.

My husband will be staying, I just wondered if it would be less stressful for her to come with me (about a two hour car ride to Ann Arbor) where I can be with her more constantly (the workshop course I am attending on Environmental Regulations is in the same hotel where I am staying, so I can check on her during breaks) than being alone for very long stretches and seeing my husband only once a day. 

You guys with more experience may be able to tell me which of the two would be less stressful for her (because also, I wanted to reduce stress to the hubby as well! LOL).


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Keep the pigeon home and it would be less stressful for you and the pigeon. You will do fine with plenty of food and water in her area and you can clean up when you get home. Pigeon proof your pigeon area if you leave her fly free within your home. Pigeons are attracted to shiny and small stuff and get into everything as they peck around. Buttons, paperclips, jewelry, small metal pieces--anything shiny and small and if she the pigeons swallows any of these you might as well say you will have a dead pigeon. Either you are going to keep this pigeon as a pet within your premises or not and do not allow her to fly free outside without being in a cage. I would like a picture of your balcony because it might be a very good place to build a suitable cage with a fly pen wrapped around the cage for her to have flying exercise. Enclose in small space hard wire and build a nice size cage with a shelter in that area if you have a large enough area. I would like to see that balcony for I feel the bottom part that is only five feet high would be a hindrance for clean up for you as well as too dark and damp and a pain to go into because of its height..But the balcony sounds promising and I need a picture. Leave the pigeon home for the two or three days and she or he will do just fine...Read Woodnatives posting about colder temperatures and drafts and how pigeons do just fine in cold weather if they have shelter and you could put a small type of heater light or something in there for extra heat in the wintertime..Leave the pigeon home.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Pigeons also can get car sick. Phoebe used to puke up her food every time we went to the vet even when we would try not to feed her, because she always had food in her crop.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Leaving her home would be much kinder to the bird. She won't miss you all that much in a couple of days, and they hate traveling. That is something you only want to do when there is no other way. Traveling is very stressful for them.


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## nukekyra (Apr 25, 2016)

Here is the cage we got for her for the meantime. Balcony/Deck renovations don't start till July so that's when I'll add the aviary underneath the deck space.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Nice cage. Hope your experience together is happy and rewarding.


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## nukekyra (Apr 25, 2016)

*Update!!*

So, Lucy as we call her has adapted well and grown well. She is now part of the family, loves my husband and participates in our life and has become accustomed to her cage. We come home from work and let Lucy out but often after hello-how are you, Lucy just hangs out on the roof of her home.

Now comes the updates:
A week and a day ago I was told there was another "injured" pigeon at work. I got the pigeon and this one was in terrible shape. Much older and just feathers and bones. Below is the link to my post on this second pigeon. I had no hopes for this one and just aimed to offer comfort and warmth. However, so far, a week and a day, the improvements have been astounding. Chamomile now stands and walks, eats well, has improved coordination and seeks moments to perch. But she walks very slowly and carefully (where before she could not stand at all) placing one foot ahead, then once she has balanced, moving the txt one. She has now thrown up, she has not had diarrhea as before but her poops are nowhere near where I'm comfortable with calling it "out of the woods". They are still greenish. 
I started her on Doxycycline and that seemed to improve things, but it's been four days. Not sure how long to treat her for.


Now the issue: A THIRD pigeon was dropped off with me. Found by one of my technicians. First they said broken wing or leg. I thought so from the photo send to me (I was out of town for the day) but as soon as I got home and saw it is clearly something serious- A virus or sickness. I am suspecting PMV or Salmonellosis but I am SOOO new to pigeon saving and keeping.

I have all three birds isolated from each other. Number Three's (That's his name for now) symptoms:
Disoriented
No balance
Sleepy
Can't pick up seed
Ruffles feathers and looses balance
Green droppings and they have caked on his vent and feet (I rinsed him off)

I plan to force feed some peas and corn to ensure he's not going to starve.

I have here at home:
Doxy
BelgAmco (from Belgica DeWeerd) for Adeno-Coli Syndrome, Strepto, and other gastro issues.
4 in 1 mix (from Belgica DeWeerd) For Adeno-Coli and upper respiratory issues.
B.S. (from B DeWeerd) for Coccidiosis, trichomoniasis and heaxmitiasis
Vitafort-A (vitamins and minerals) for birds
Calcivet

I just ordered Baytril 10%

I have all this mostly due to lack of vets in my area, I wanted to be prepared for Lucy, somehow I have now become a Pigeon hospital.

ANY HELP, ANY TIPS, AND GUIDANCE IS NEEDED AND WELCOME. I have done well with Lucy and Chamomile but I really feel overwhelmed and over my head with this third pigeon. I don't want all the advances to be for nothing.






http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f6/fledgling-favoring-one-side-curled-toes-stevensville-mi-82513.html


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## nukekyra (Apr 25, 2016)

Forgot to mention that I also have ACV.

Tips on when and how to use things and for how long are sorely needed!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

nukekyra said:


> So, Lucy as we call her has adapted well and grown well. She is now part of the family, loves my husband and participates in our life and has become accustomed to her cage. We come home from work and let Lucy out but often after hello-how are you, Lucy just hangs out on the roof of her home.
> 
> Now comes the updates:
> A week and a day ago I was told there was another "injured" pigeon at work. I got the pigeon and this one was in terrible shape. Much older and just feathers and bones. Below is the link to my post on this second pigeon. I had no hopes for this one and just aimed to offer comfort and warmth. However, so far, a week and a day, the improvements have been astounding. Chamomile now stands and walks, eats well, has improved coordination and seeks moments to perch. But she walks very slowly and carefully (where before she could not stand at all) placing one foot ahead, then once she has balanced, moving the txt one. She has now thrown up, she has not had diarrhea as before but her poops are nowhere near where I'm comfortable with calling it "out of the woods". They are still greenish.
> ...


................................................................................................


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Thank you for helping the three birds! You are a brave and kind person. Agree that a vet should see your latest rescue to get a diagnosis and treatment. Glad to hear Lucy and Chamomile are doing so well! Hope your new Byrd gets well soon. Could be starvation. Can you also,post photos of the new bird and his droppings? Good idea to,isolate them until you know what is going on.


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## nukekyra (Apr 25, 2016)

The doxy was brought by my mother, who is visiting, after conference call with a vet who specializes in avian veterinary. I just don't have a vet nearby, and this is my frustration.

I will continue my search of a vet by expanding the area. I have been talking to a few people. And there have been a lot of pigeon deaths in the area. I have contacted a company which sells test kits (Avianlabs.com). 

We had a population of hundreds and now I'm lucky if I see three.

But even as I say this, I am still very much wanting and open to you guys' experience, knowledge and tips.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Maybe they are poisoning pigeons in the area.


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## nukekyra (Apr 25, 2016)

Jay3 said:


> Maybe they are poisoning pigeons in the area.


We were thinking as much. I got the numbers of a couple of naturalists here from the Nature Center and will be speaking with them soon. Seems that there has been a lot of sick and dying pigeons in the area. A farmer friend was telling me his dog seemed to be "catching" pigeons and he didn't think anything of it until we talked and it made no sense that his dough would be able to catch adult pigeons- until we realized if they are sick like this they are sitting ducks (pardon the pun-again).


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Unfortunately it is very possible. I have seen things like that here, where all of a sudden a particular flock is just gone. Too bad.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

How very sad.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

It is sad. A lot of places like shopping malls and places like that will do that to get rid of them. The unfortunate thing is that pigeons multiply and add to their numbers quickly, and then that becomes a nuisance in some places. Wish there was a better way. It's so sad.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Jay3 said:


> It is sad. A lot of places like shopping malls and places like that will do that to get rid of them. The unfortunate thing is that pigeons multiply and add to their numbers quickly, and then that becomes a nuisance in some places. Wish there was a better way. It's so sad.


*Yes, I have seen it here. There was a flock of ferals hanging around the bridge by the freeway, all of a sudden they were gone. 

They become a nuisance because some humans irresponsibly feed them and/or they pick up scraps of food at the fast food places that are right around the bridge/freeway, which are discarded-by people (some mean well, others are litter bugs), so the flock multiplies if there is enough food sources, regardless of whether the food source is good or bad.

So humans actually create the problem and then try to fix it...in the most inhumane way possible. The poor birds are just trying to adapt around us human creatures. *


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes, I have to agree that we ourselves cause most of these problems. Then we complain about what others do to resolve the issue. You are right. I guess in a way that I am guilty as well, as I do feed a very small flock who come to my backyard daily. They are small in number, and I know they are hungry, but I guess I am contributing to this by feeding them.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

I love ferals and wish they were protected, like swallows.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

cwebster said:


> I love ferals and wish they were protected, like swallows.


I agree!


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## wiggles and puddles (Sep 3, 2015)

I can't understand how crows can be protected, but a pigeon is not. They are so smart and loving, yet we humans are way to often carless and cold hearted. 

I would get some Kaytee baby bird formula for your third bird if you are concerned he might not be getting enough nutrients. It might be good to add to the peas and corn until he can eat on his own. 

Sounds like you are doing well, and you are really very kind to take care of these birds.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Jay3 said:


> I guess in a way that I am guilty as well, as I do feed a very small flock who come to my backyard daily. They are small in number, and I know they are hungry, but I guess I am contributing to this by feeding them.


*Responsible feeding, is feeding the birds just enough to give them a meal, nothing extra, nothing left over. What you are doing is not contributing to excessive breeding. *


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

That's how I feed them. I try to make it so that it is only part of what they would be eating in a day. Not over feeding. I feel bad for them in the heat of summer, and even more so in the cold and snow of winter. It's so hard for them to find food then. It's hard for any of the birds that come to our backyard, to find food.


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## nukekyra (Apr 25, 2016)

cwebster said:


> I love ferals and wish they were protected, like swallows.


Agree as well. We have more issues at the plant where I work with starlings than Pigeons. We also have swallows which come every year and actually nest inside the plant and we keep crane doors open during the summer so they can fly in and out. It's why I know we don't poison them. Plus, I'm the general supervisor of the Environmental department here, the first thing I did was contact the facilities department (responsible for cleaning, housekeeping of grounds etc.) and ask them.

I had started to keep an eye out for the preferred roosting places of the pigeons and had discussed the fake egg thing with my boss and we were going to do that then the mysterious disappearance happened. But I will do this when and if the population returns. This may help control it somewhat.


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## nukekyra (Apr 25, 2016)

wiggles and puddles said:


> I can't understand how crows can be protected, but a pigeon is not. They are so smart and loving, yet we humans are way to often carless and cold hearted.
> 
> I would get some Kaytee baby bird formula for your third bird if you are concerned he might not be getting enough nutrients. It might be good to add to the peas and corn until he can eat on his own.
> 
> Sounds like you are doing well, and you are really very kind to take care of these birds.


That's what I did after I read this. I am feeding him some formula. I weighed him and that way I can keep track of his weight. I'll get a photo of him because this feral is absolutely gorgeous. He's a "redhead" all strawberry blond and red toned feathers. Absolutely gorgeous.

I have added to my arsenal of meds with Bee propolis, garlic gelcaps and vitamin B1. 

This one needs everything by hand though, so does anyone have tips on the dosage for the garlic. I searched old posts and found one which said to give it daily until improvements and then scale back? 

Should I give the garlic to the other two I have as well? Chamomile, the other sick one which seemed like she was at death's door almost two weeks ago is now eating on her own and able to walk slowly and gently, and does a lot of wing flapping for exercise. 

Another question on Chamomile (the bird) she may have canker- her beak is perfect (inside mouth) but she has next to no feathers under the wings and is a little bare on the sides of her neck. It seems to be getting better, could have been part of her moribund state she was in, so I'm looking for a natural way to attack this first.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If it is canker, then there really isn't a natural cure for that. Can you post a pic of the bird?


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## nukekyra (Apr 25, 2016)

That's her stretching her wings, you can see her bare underneath.
She's eating on her own now. And her poops are finally diarrhea free. Today I validated that she is also drinking water on her own (I put vitamins in her water). Should I use ACV? If so, how much and how often?


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## nukekyra (Apr 25, 2016)

This was her the day after I had her. She could not use her legs at all. Had no coordination and could not eat or move much without rolling on her side.


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## nukekyra (Apr 25, 2016)

This is her today.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Good work!!! Glad she is improving.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Would definitely treat for canker. Metronidazole, 30 mg once daily for 10 days.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Jay3 said:


> Would definitely treat for canker. Metronidazole, 30 mg once daily for 10 days.


*PLEASE DO NOT DISREGARD THE ABOVE ^^^^^, as Jay has said there is NO natural cure for canker, and there are "pigeon friendly" medicines for it. I am all about using natural and organic remedies, but this disease can kill and needs immediate attention. The symptoms are there, and the cure is simple.*


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## nukekyra (Apr 25, 2016)

Absolutely will start treatment. I just wanted her out of the woods with the other stuff. She even got her little bit of yogurt (Greek, 0% fat) in the mouth a week ago for strengthening her immune system. She's taking one garlic a day.

But now that I have your expertize I WILL treat for canker. I have the stuff so I'll start her today when I get home.

Thank you all, for your advice.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

What canker med do you have? Be careful with the garlic. It can be over done.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*DO NOT use garlic on any pigeon younger then 2 months of age.Not for use on babies. It will destroy any gut bacteria the youngster has-and they usually have next to none. PLEASE continue to give little bits of yogurt that is fine, but NO garlic.*


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Thanks Skyking. I know garlic, too much isn't good for them, but had no idea of how young you can give it. I don't really use it. But every day didn't sound right.


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## nukekyra (Apr 25, 2016)

Jay3 said:


> What canker med do you have? Be careful with the garlic. It can be over done.


I have stopped the garlic since I read this. Two days into the daily garlic, I read this so I stopped since I can't guarantee she is over two months. She is little but I keep thinking this whole ordeal stunted her growth.

I have metronidazole 10% is this good?
The baby food I gave her has probiotics and I also did the yogurt thing when she first arrived.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

The bird is lucky to have found such a kind guy. Well done


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## nukekyra (Apr 25, 2016)

donkey said:


> The bird is lucky to have found such a kind guy. Well done


Thank you! But I really owe it to everyone who has been kind enough to take the time to read this thread, check in, and give me advice and tips.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

nukekyra said:


> I have stopped the garlic since I read this. Two days into the daily garlic, I read this so I stopped since I can't guarantee she is over two months. She is little but I keep thinking this whole ordeal stunted her growth.
> 
> *I have metronidazole 10% is this good?*
> The baby food I gave her has probiotics and I also did the yogurt thing when she first arrived.


No. It doesn't come that way unless it is a topical cream or something. You can't use that on him. You need tablets that you give orally. They usually come in higher doses per pill, so you would need to split the pill and split it again if need be to get the right dose.

Can you buy it online from a pigeon supply? He would need about 30 mg once daily. At this point, I would give it for 10 days, and see how he is then.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

nukekyra said:


> Thank you! But I really owe it to everyone who has been kind enough to take the time to read this thread, check in, and give me advice and tips.


don't sell yourself short. The good people on this forum have been a great help to you but its you who is doing the hard work.


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## nukekyra (Apr 25, 2016)

Jay3 said:


> No. It doesn't come that way unless it is a topical cream or something. You can't use that on him. You need tablets that you give orally. They usually come in higher doses per pill, so you would need to split the pill and split it again if need be to get the right dose.
> 
> Can you buy it online from a pigeon supply? He would need about 30 mg once daily. At this point, I would give it for 10 days, and see how he is then.


OK. I will do that. What I had I got from another post which recommended that liquid (it's not topical). I'll see if I find the post later and link to it. 
I had gotten that because it was an overnight delivery. I am awaiting the arrival of Rrnidazole which I ordered from pigeon products int'l. They're out of Seattle, Wa, I think.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Is the Ronidazole the liquid you put in the water? If so, you would have been much better getting the Metro. If you have something that you mix in the water, it is not as effective. You can't control the amount of water the bird drinks. That's why a tablet is better, because you put the correct dosage right down his throat.


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## nukekyra (Apr 25, 2016)

Jay3 said:


> Is the Ronidazole the liquid you put in the water? If so, you would have been much better getting the Metro. If you have something that you mix in the water, it is not as effective. You can't control the amount of water the bird drinks. That's why a tablet is better, because you put the correct dosage right down his throat.


Crud.
I tried to go from what I read in other threads and in the Foys, Pigeons and Jedd's sites on the meds themselves; this one has vitamins etc and less likely to cause vomiting and upsets. 
Should I try this and see if it is successful?


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