# Rescued Pigeon With Damaged Wing/Shoulder



## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

I've brought a lovely pigeon home that was about to be 'put out of it's misery'. It has been at this sanctuary for a good 2/3 months, sent there by a vet I assume. It had it's wing bandaged when it arrived, but kept falling over and couldn't get up by itself, so it was kept in a cage near to the office so people could keep an eye on it. The staff decided to take off the strapping as they thought this was causing it to fall over. It wasn't. The poor bird was absolutely caked on poo where it had been lying if no-one walked by to pick it up on some days. It's poos were the brightest green I've ever seen.
Anyway, I kept an eye out for it when I went in on my weekly visits to help, and it kept going well. I gave it a bath one day to try and get the poo out of it's feathers. Then they tied it's wing up to it's tail but this kept coming off. Generally it managed ok, and it ate and drank well and soon the poos returned to a normal colour.
It had occasional cage mates that passed through, but they just didn't know what else to do for it. I felt it's wing was gradually hanging lower and one of the staff trimmed it's feathers to keep them out of the way of it's foot as if it caught it's foot in the wing, this is what caused it to fall over. Very much like the thread about 'Rosie'.
Wednesday I went in as usual and both front cages were empty. There had been two young injured Woodies in there aswell. As I walked through the compound where the main aviaries are, I noticed what I thought was a dead bird lying on the ground in a pen with two Woodies. It was 'Tipsey', as I had named him. The staff had decided to put him in there as a permanent home as he seemed to be walking ok since his wing had been clipped back.
He was alive but in a bad way, caked in poo, on his back, and his damaged wing was bleeding from where he had struggled to try and get up and had scratched it raw with his claws. When I put him on his feet his one leg was useless as he must have been lying there for a couple of days. They said they ought to 'pid'. I picked him up and held him over some seeds and water and he ate and drank really well, just couldn't stand.
The end result is I felt his leg might just need to get some strength back in it, so I kidnapped Tipsey and brought him home !

I'm so glad I did as that night I put him in a small box that he couldn't fall over in and he propped himself up against the side. The next morning he was standing on his leg again, and now today he is using it just as normal and walking about no problem. His poos look fine and he eats well. Full of attitude and grunts and bats me with his good wing, but if picked up snuggles up and is no trouble to handle. I've bathed his wing in saline water and sprayed it with an anticeptic wound wash. I hope that's ok.

I feel he really has a future. At the moment he is out in the garden, ( in a cage ), and seems to be enjoying watching the birds coming and going.

I have no knowledge of surgical options but when I look at his wing it hangs so low now, almost going under his stomach, I just feel without that in the way he wouldn't fall over. He has only fallen over once since I got him home, and that was only 'cos he caught his foot again.

Do I assume after this long any damage would be permanent?


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2007)

If you cut the long flight feathers down, it should help prevent him from tripping over them.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi, They have cut some of the feathers back, I haven't done this before so if I cut them is there anything I need to watch out for as far as how short. Don't want to cause the bird any pain.

Thanks Amyable


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2007)

There is no pain when feathers are cut. Just be careful not to get too near the base of the feathers so that you don't have to worry about accidentally cutting any skin. You might want to also consider taking a nail file and flattening the points on the toenails to prevent them from catching on any feathers.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I have an odd one similar to this--he has the bad wing and steps funny on that side. The bad wing was never broken but it seems like there was some kind of nerve damage as it progressed to being extremely stiff and held down there under the breast muscle kinda' like in your picture. You can't even pull the wing outward anymore. I tried physical therapy a lot for the first few months but finally gave up on the idea because he had no ability to extend the wing at all. In addition to the wing, the leg on that side is a little odd--he steps especially high with it and would originally catch it in the primary flight feathers. I had to trim them, too. He lives in the loft now and fends for himself. I had to put in a handicapped-access ramp up to the waterer especially for him but otherwise he manages his own life. He flirts with the hens and picks fights with the other cocks when it suits him (several times per day). He's a rough lookin' little junkyard dog but he's doin' it his way. It might not be anything approaching the average life for a pigeon but it's life.

His story started here:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?p=148334

Pidgey


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

It sounds as if you almost need to be there full time to keep an eye on the birds.

Helen once had to clip a pigeon's wing because it dragged and he kept tripping over. She sent him to me amd amazingly, when he moulted and the new feathers grew his wing was in the correct position and has stayed there ever since.

I have two pigeons that fall on their backs and are unable to right themselves, but they seem to have damage to both wings.

When I say pigeons, I mean a woodie (Batman) and a collared dove (Robin).

As I am at home I check on them regularly, so they are never upside down for too long but when he has been on his back and is righted one of Robin's legs gives way until I have held him in my hands for a little while.

The problem with pigeons that fall over is that the ferals will immediately attack them by pecking at their heads and eyes, and also that they are liable to injure their eyes in the struggle to right themselves. Woodies and collared doves seem to be more tolerant. Robin is in a bubblewrap floored aviary with Batman and another crippled collared dove (Doveling). Neither Batman nor Doveling have attacked him when he is vulnerable.

Cynthia


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

*Tipsey*

Hi Pidgey,

I've just spent a good hour reading through you original thread about Jag and DD. It was fascinating even when it veered off track ! Yes it does seem as if Tipsey has the same problem as Jag. I noticed you mentioned in your post about the possibility of amputating part of the wing, I had thought this might have been necessary for this one to manage. I assume you never did go with that. I'm glad after reading about yours, as I'd hoped, he could still enjoy life and I will try and see how much I can improve things by trimming back a bit more. I'll need to find him a home where he can live with other birds, and I'm sure he'll be ok.
Also there is absolutely no sign of use in this wing, when he flaps his good wing this one stays still. I've seen other pigeons with injured wings and they are still able to raise their bad wing to some extent.

Cynthia, Whenever I think I must stop going in to help this lazy lot out, another bird arrives and I just have to go back to see it's alright. I wish I had this set up in my back garden, I would be happy as a pig in s--t! and be out there all day probably. Mind you I haven't had the nerve to tell my husband there's a new pigeon in the sauna yet!

I don't suppose they've noticed that Tipsey has even gone. He could go back and live there permanently with the other three unreleasable pigeons, but I don't want to risk it now I've taken him away, and find he dies because no-one keeps an eye on him. From what you said, it was probably lucky he was in with two Woodies, they just left him alone.

Janet


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Pidgey, I also noticed when he walks, he lifts his leg up higher too like you described Jag does. When I was bathing his wing and moved it, he lifted up the leg and curled up the foot. Do you think that's a sign of pain?
The under side of the wing, where he scratched it trying to get up is still quite sore and bloody so I'm trying to keep it clean and hope it heals up. Anything particular I should be putting on it. Don't want that going nasty.

Thanks, Amyable


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Don't know. Up until now I had thought that Jag's condition was due to some kind of unique neurological injury that affected the motor control of Jag's right side. Tipsey's is on his left and appears to be progressing the same way. Jag was still a squeaker and Tipsey is obviously much older at the onset of the affliction. Jag's high-stepping walk is sometimes less pronounced, but it's certainly never gone away or gotten worse, either one.

When Jag molts and new primary flight feathers come in, he often ends up breaking them himself and that's how I find them, sometimes bleeding. A lot of the time, there aren't any feathers at all on the wing tip. Just watching him, you don't ever see him doing any "guarding behavior", which is the tendency for any animal including us to guard a damaged and painful part of the body from further harm like keeping a broken arm held close to the body during healing. He still courts the hens, whips others' hineys, shows up for every meal and walks all over the areas that he can reach.

I tried various things hoping to keep his wing from further damage but nothing's worked out very well. If you pull Tipsey's wing outward, does it want to snap back in place like a rubber band?

Pidgey


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Janet,

Does the good wing work properly? Although I can uderstand that he would fall over by tripping over the wing, that doesn't explain why he can't right himself. Jose (a pigeon with most of one wing amputated) and Griffindor (a pigeon with one non-viable wing) are both able to right themselves within seconds if they fall over by using their "good" wing. The three "droopy wing" pigeons, rwo of which can't fly, don't fall over at all.

When I got Batman he had spent 3 weeks in a cage somewhere else, and in that environment hadn't fallen over once. It was the same when he was in a cage here. When he started falling over in the aviary I would find him with a wing bent under him or his feet tangled in a wing, so I clipped both wings. It was only when he continued to fall over that I realised that he couldn't use either wing and that as he "jumped" in an attempt to fly, or in an attempt to perch on something that would need assistance from his wings to reach, he would fall over (usually backwards) and be unable to right himself. Robin is exactly the same.

This morning I found Batman on his back , and just like Robin yesterday he was unable to use one of his legs immediately when I righted him.

This is what the Three Owls Sanctuary have said regarding offering a permanent home to disabled pigeons:

_"Provided that the bird has at least 2/3 of each wing, we have found there is no problem with them mixing, however, if a bird can fall onto it's back and unable to right itself, nature dictates that the others must kill it to prevent disease spreading through the flock. - often why I get calls from members of the public who have reported a group of birds attacking a single injured bird on the ground either in their garden or whilst out and about."_

I would offer to take him in, but while he falls over he can't be with other ferals because they would attack him when he was down and because he is a feral he can't be with any disabled collared doves or with any woodies that fall over because he would attack them. The only suitable environment would be in an aviary that was checked regularly which he shared with woodies. Hopefully that will be available in the near future at Hallswood. They have said that they will build an aviary for woodies soon and as they live on site they would be able to keep an eye on him.

Cynthia


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Pidgey,
I'll check on whether the wing springs back tomorrow and report back, I've put him away for the night now.
I've been watching him walk again and the same as Jag, he doesn't high step all the time. I've cut the feathers back some more, but with the shape of the wing sloping inwards, it presses slightly on his thigh. When he potters about he walks normally, I think he picks it up higher when the feathers get caught around his leg to try and free it maybe.
Not sure whether he is showing the guarding behaviour you described but he grunts and bats me with his good wing but only when I go and put my hands in his cage.
I don't know his history unfortunately, he seems quite tame, once he's picked up he is very calm and even sat on my knee today without me holding him and had a short doze. By the way does Jag ever fall over now?
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Cynthia,
The other wing does seem to work ok. He stretches it out and flaps it no problem, bats me with it. I don't know why he can't get up. Possibly because whenever he's fallen, the leg is caught up in the feathers, his leg is jutting through the feathers, if you know what I mean. Also I don't know if your birds do this, but when he's fallen he twists his head right around, so although he's lying on his back, his head is facing almost forward.

The other pigeons that have one damaged wing each, don't fall over, the difference there with their injuries is the shoulder is still in the same place, as opposed to Tipsey's that hangs down low, so their wings don't interfere with their leg movement. I assume the shoulder position might be a factor that causes him this problem and not them.
When he first arrived the shoulder wasn't sitting as low as it is now.
I did wonder if that might be due to the muscle being weaker from lack of use. With the wing being naturally curved, the lower it is the more it sits against his leg.
I understand what your saying about Batman falling when he tries to 'fly'. Tipsey has been fine here and not fallen, but of course he's in a calmer environment. I might experiment and see what situations cause him to fall, It was probably when he was panicing and trying to move quickly.

I'll have to start enquiring about finding him the right sort of home, he's no trouble but he definitely likes being with other pigeons, so no good here long term. Thanks for the info, at least I know what to look for. If Hallswood do build their aviary and I haven't found anywhere, can you let me know?

Thanks as always

Janet


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

*Re-Wing*

Hi Pidgey,

Just reporting back if you see this, with regard to your question as to whether Tipsey's wing 'snaps back like a rubber band.'
Assuming I did it right, I would say it does snap back. When I did it with his good wing, he retracted it himself, but with his bad one, it just went back in place. It is quite difficult to pull it out, he doesn't seem to have much 'give' in it.
Hope this makes sense. What would that indicate then?

Regards Amyable


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Yes, Jag still falls over but rights himself fairly quickly. The wing snapping back just means that it's going to be that way the rest of his life. It might even be better to have them amputated, truth be told, just for convenience and the ability to get the feathers underneath to preen.

Pidgey


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Intermittent hobble for feet to avoid tripping*

Hello Amyable, and all,

Pidgey, an idea occurred to me: what if Amyable were to put a hobble on the feet of Tipsey? A string attached to the ankles, long enough for him to walk, but not long enough for him to snag his foot in his wing. 

She could have it attached when she is unable to monitor him, and have it off when she is araound, so that he could scratch, preen, etc.

The hobble could consist of a loop of string, looped over itself at each end, easy to put on and remove. 

Don't recall name of knot: clove hitch or half hitch?

See sketch at:
http://picasaweb.google.com/henson.sels/PigeonHobble1111072047?authkey=TR-nDSEa0BY 

Pigeon would need time without hobble in order to preen himself with claws, etc. 

Larry

Called cow hitch or sailor's lanyard hitch at this link:

http://www.realknots.com/knots/hitches.htm


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I would try clipping the flight feathers first. Amputation would require an anaesthetic which can be so dangerous for pigeons! I have "hobbled" a pigeon with a splay leg, but I would not recommend it until wing clipping has been tried.

Janet, if clipping the wing enables Tipsey to remain upright I can take her. I might eventually have to send her to Hallswood (I will be sending a few of my own rescues there) because I an choc-a-block and want to provide a refuge for PMV pigeons. Sanctuaries are require to put them to sleep and the ones that recover will show nervous symptoms years later and therefore risk being destroyed. So our aviary is their best hope.

Cynthia


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Can't say for sure but it might be easier for him to right himself if the floor of the cage is such that he can get some purchase with whatever limbs are flailing. This could be towels, wood chips or something like that. I've used something like you're mentioning for dealing with splayed legs but they often have troubles with that paraphernalia, too.

Pidgey


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

*Hobble*

Hi Larry,

Very interested to read that about the knots. As we sail it looks like the one we use for attaching fenders to the boat, never thought I'd ever use it on a pigeon!
I'm keeping a close eye on Tipsey at present trying to establish what causes him/her to fall, sods law, he hasn't fallen since I've had him,.. yet. Thanks for the idea. Will see how he goes.

Amyable.


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## Guest (Nov 12, 2007)

amyable,
I have no idea what your situation is with the cost of veterinary treatment. The one thing I want to convey to you is that an amputation of the elbow of the wing, not the entire wing, is really the solution to this bird's problems.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Amyable, please don't think of amputating until all other courses of action have been tried. Pigeons often died under anaesthetic, my own vet will do surgery on pigeons only as a last recourse for that very reason.

Cynthia


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Pidgey said:


> *It might even be better to have them amputated, truth be told, just for convenience and the ability to get the feathers underneath to preen.*
> Pidgey


Them?  



pigeonperson said:


> amyable,
> *The one thing I want to convey to you is that an amputation of the elbow of the wing, not the entire wing, is really the solution to this bird's problems.*


Pidgey & Fred,
Why the urgency to suggest amputation (the entire wing or any part thereof)?  

At this point, there's no way to determine an accurate solution Fred. 

It would seem more prudent to take a non-invasive approach (e.g. wing clipping) & see how that goes before sugesting any type of amputation.

Cindy


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Cynthia,

Thanks for your kind offer. I've spent the day pretty well, trying different things to see how Tipsey coped. I can't risk you being stuck with the problem of where to place him, should he arrive, and then find he falls over due to being in a different environment.
It's been very interesting watching him, I think I've deduced a little about his past from the way he reacted to certain things.
He/she has no problem being held although he gets annoyed when I go to pick him up. He'll sit on the palm of my hand, I don't have to hold him, so I think he was handled before. I took him out into the garden this afternoon, he was in his element as soon as he was put on the lawn. He pottered about pecking and looking for food in the leaves. Must have thought it was his birthday after all these months in a cage.
To see how he managed on uneven ground I shooed him onto a high rockery under an oak tree. He loved it, and jumped from rock to rock using his good wing to balance when needed. I put him under a bit of pressure by walking behind him and even when he ran he had no problem, certainly not getting his leg caught in the wing.
Later on he pottered over to the house, and he kept pacing backwards and forwards, looking up at the kitchen window. He got quite agitated as if he felt he should be able to get in somewhere. Made me wonder if he had lived in a loft or house before, the brick walls seemed to look familiar to him. He wouldn't come away from the house after that. Who knows!
Anyway he did try a couple of times to fly up, and on one occasion he toppled over when he landed. I left him a moment to see what he would do. When he tries to right himself he flaps his good wing and this causes him further onto his back. He twists his head around to face down, so his legs are in the air and he is twisted in the middle. If he lies on his bad wing he gives up, if I roll him onto his good wing he can get up. So that's a real shame, after seeing him jumping about on the rockery I would have said he was perfectly ok, just when he got his sights set on the window he blew it.

I read what was said about the part amputation. The risks put aside, I could see that being an answer if it was definitely the wing getting caught around the leg that was causing him to fall over. I think clipping the wing has helped a lot, seeing how well he got around today. He would possibly still have this tendency to over balance if he attempts to fly, having one viable wing.

I'm sorry this is a bit lengthy, just wanted to try and paint a clear picture of what he can do. I really appreciate all your input to date.

Amyable


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## Guest (Nov 12, 2007)

Cindy,
It's a viable and common option and it's done more often than you might realize. I had to have it done with one of my own parrots but in that situation, it was dermatitis and infection deep in the roots of the flight feathers and it was the only option to save him. I'm not suggesting it lightly but you are right in taking a wait and see how he does attitude. There's time.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Oh, I wasn't being urgent. If I felt that way, I'd have gotten Jag's carpometacarpus (just that) amputated long ago. His has become stiff to the point that you almost can't pull it away from the body--it's frozen in that position. I do not understand why his wing has lost most of its feathers altogether for most of the time (he gets some when he molts--they get broken off and then they seem to disappear) but that's how it usually works. For him, I've worried about him getting it frostbitten this coming winter more than anything. And, it does cover some space on the breast that he can't get to in order to scratch, preen or chase parasites out of.

With respect to vets losing them under anaesthesia, I suppose it depends on the vet and the particular general anaesthetic that's available. Forane's got my vote (Isoflurane) and if used judiciously, it's pretty safe. If they don't have that and aren't used to using it on pigeons, then I'd probably pass, too, on a somewhat elective surgery.

Pidgey


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi amyable,

It's the attempt to fly that makes my intrepid duo fall over, but other pigeons with one non viable wing, who only attempt to fly when their able bodied hens are on a perch, never fall over. Maybe Tipsey will adjust? Keep helping her by rolling her (she looks like a hen to me) onto her good wing, maybe that will train her to roll in that direction.

I wish I had more room in my garden, then I could erect another aviary that Tipsey could share with my woodies.

Which reminds me, I took my three releasable woodies to Hallswood and within 10 days one had chosen a mate and was nesting...but even though he has always been with other woodies his mate is a white dove!

Cynthia


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

*Tipsey Lady!*

Hi Cynthia,

I must be honest, I had started to think of Tipsey as a she the last few days, mainly from the colour aspect as I know no better. 'She' is too pretty with her metallic pink collar, peach and beige wings and white back. Her picture doesn't do her justice !

Funnily enough I was only thinking last night as to whether she could ever be trained to roll over on her good side to get up. I'll certainly try.
(I had a word with her yesterday when she fell over, and told her she'd probably failed the entrance exam to your elite pigeon retreat unless she mastered the art of righting herself!)

Great news about your Woodies settling so well at Hallswood. There could be some interesting looking offspring! Is it an open pen so they are free to come and go? Also did that group include Valiant?
My little Woodie went up to Amerton Farm a few weeks ago. She was kept inside for about a week with another youngster who could self feed until they were sure she was ok. She then went out to the release pen with some others which is sealed for a while for them to adjust to outside life.
I drove up there to take a friend for a day out and popped in to see if we could see her. I spotted a few in a pen behind the main pigeon aviary and as we were talking this one young Woodie came over to the edge, pacing up and down looking over towards us. I'm sure Monkie knew it was me, so I quickly moved away. I felt a bit sad but it was great to see her with other birds, just what I couldn't give her. I wish her all the luck in the world, it was a privilege having the chance to get close to a Woodie.
Then came Tipsey! 

Regards

Janet


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Janet,

I was wondering whether being a hen she would be less likely to attack and upside down woodie or dove. I know that in one book owners are advised to take hens with egg laying paralysis out of the loft, to avoid them being attacked by "marauding cocks". But I couldn't risk the little dove getting hurt, she would probably not survive.

Putting Silly Billy Squeaker in with Batman and Robin was a big mistake, he would go and peck at Batman, so Batman would try a wingslap and that was sufficient to up-end him, then Billy would go in for the kill.

I am certain that Tipsey will quickly learn to keep on her feet or right herself. Pigeons that have had a wing bound to their body for support soon learn how to stay upright, with one wing working so well she has no excuse for falling over and staying over...give her a bit of a pep talk!

The plan with the woodies was that Hallswood would release them once they were familiar with the territory, so I am not sure what is happening. Their pigeons were free flying, but they separated the white doves from the other colours and so far I have only seen them in the aviary. I am taking some white doves over next week, I think, and I will find out then. But whether they are free flying or living in the aviary they are well off, as the name implies the sanctuary is set in a wood. 

I think that Valiant is the one that is nesting. It is hard to tell one from another now and I deliberately didn't ring them because I know from experience that I would be forever looking for them and despairing when I didn't see them. But it looked like Valiant, he was much calmer than the other two and therefore more likely to adjust to a new environment.

Cynthia


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

*Loss Of Feathers*

Hi Pidgey,

Just thought I'd let you know Tipsey's feathers are disappearing like Jags under the damaged wing. Every day there are less and today I can see through to the skin. There are still large quills but it's mainly the small feathers that have gone. It looks a bit sore, and it has been bleeding today where she's caught it with her claws.
I've filed down the claws like Pigeonperson recommended to try and help. Spoilt bird, had a bath and manicure today.  

Amyable


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Sure wish I knew what caused this in both birds. I remember that Jag had some curious swelling around his head so it's possible that it's actually a brain-related trauma. There's probably no way to diagnose it in time to do anything, though, and it certainly seems rare enough. Thank goodness. Since management is something that we just have to do as we already are, it looks like about all we've really gained out of this discourse is simply the miniscule relief that comes from realizing that "you are not alone."

Pidgey


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

*'you are not alone'*

Pidgey, in reply to your note, for someone like myself who has little to no experience with pigeons, it is a major relief to find out I'm 'not alone'!!
Thank goodness for this forum.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

*Change in Poo Colour*

Hi All,

Tipsey is going along nicely, (there's always a 'but'), her poos have turned very green gradually over the last couple of days. I've been scrolling through various threads to read up about this as I'm not sure if it's a problem. I see it can be from starvation, she had incredibly bright green poos when she first arrived at the sanctuary, but it disappeared after a while. I read it could also be diet or a sign of illness.
She just did one brown one tonight , then went back to green.

Is this anything to be concerned about?

Amyable


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Have you checked her for coccidia?

Reti


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Janet,

It could be related to the food. But a while ago I mentioned that one of my woodies had bright green poops and that he was in perfect health, but a few days later I checked inside his mouth and found white spots which I assumed indicated a yeast infection. I treated him with Nystatin (for yeast) and Spartrix (in case it was canker). The spots disappeared and the poops changed colour to khaki.

Appertex is a single dose remedy for coccidia. John will be coming to Norwich tonight, hopefully bringing a pcket of appertex with him. If so I will post some to you.

Cynthia


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Reti,

No I haven't. Does it have to be done by a vet, I'm sorry I have no experience with this.

Amyable


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Cynthia,

Sorry our posts crossed there.
Thanks for that, shall I just treat her with it or do I need to have anything checked out to confirm first?

I was just looking on the internet to see where I could get something to treat this with after seeing Reti's post.

Janet


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

It would be ideal to check for this, but if not possible i just go ahaid and treat them.
Most ferals I received did have coccidia. They do carry this in small amounts that don't affect their health. In times of high stress the parasite tend to multiply and they become symptomatic.

Reti


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

*Tipsey's losing feathers now*

I'm a little concerned today as I noticed a lot of small white downey feathers on the bottom of Tipseys cage. I let her out in the garden for a roam and she went as usual to clamber over the rockery. She sits on a rock and preens herself and a lot of short white 'stick' like quills kept coming out. When I picked one up and rubbed it in my fingers it was very powdery and turned out to be a small feather.
I have looked under her bottom and she has a lot of these white 'sticks' just falling off, and is quite bald where they are coming from. Any ideas if this is a problem or is this a normal moult? I haven't a clue.

Her poos are still quite green also.

Janet


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Can you post a picture that shows the exact location?

Pidgey


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Pidgey,

Hope these give a bit of an idea. It's around her bottom and back of legs.
She was badly caked in poo when I had her and the feathers are still a bit stained from that.
I've tried to point to the area on one of the pics.

Amyable


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

You might want to try measuring exactly where this spot is compared to the vent (e.g., one inch forward; 1/2 inch to the left side). It could be everything from normal to irritation from wing feather stubs on that side to an underlying inflammatory process due to parasites. Does this spot seem to be anywhere near the underlying leg bones that operate in that area (femur & tibiotarsus)? See this link for drawings of same:

http://people.eku.edu/ritchisong/skeleton.html

Pidgey


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Pidgey,

Sorry will get back to this later, just got an emergency at home, speak later, thanks.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Back again,

I've looked at her again and it really maybe more widespread than I first noticed.
It's mainly around her vent area, more on her left side , spreading about an inch across. Also her keel bone is exposed if I part the downey feathers, and she looks bald there too. The feathers seem to be almost rubbing off. I don't know if this makes sense. It doesn't seem to be anything to do with the wing/leg bones.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, the skin down the edge of the keel usually doesn't have feathers on it although the ones on either side tend to cover it quite well. Since you're in the UK, I'd suggest that we get with Cynthia on this one. Parasites (one possibility) differ from area to area and I haven't seen that symptom before. I will say, though, that Jag's feathering is overall kinda' rough and I don't know why. I suppose I oughta' post some pictures soon just for you, huh?

Pidgey


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Thanks Pidgey,

yes, post us a picture, Tipsey is lonely for pigeon company. I'll put his picture up in her cage, they might become pen pals, can send messages via 'pigeon post'.

She'd better not lose too many more feathers, we had snow here yesterday, hardly the time to go bald. Hope it's not a stress thing.

Thanks for your help anyway.

Amyable


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Janet,

I know that a lot of the River Green pigeons have had mites that cause baldeness , they were taken to Hallswood. The rescuers saw baldness on their heads, I don't know if they examined them to see if it was affecting the rest of their bodies, but will ask Lyz at Hallswood exactly what they are, how they affect pigeons and how they are treated.

I have also noticed the crumbling feathers on the site of a healing wound.

I will try to post your parcel today. I will include probiotics, often they are enough to correct dodgy poops.

Cynthia


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Cynthia,

Thanks, would appreciate any info Hallswood may have. I've looked on the internet for info re-losing feathers but feel I'm stabbing in the dark. I saw some spray for mites the other day in a shop that sold pigeon foods. Unfortunately she hadn't started losing any at that point so didn't get it. It seems to have come on quite quickly, I just saw a lot in the bottom of the cage yesterday after she'd been kept in the shed over the week-end, and they're still coming out now. She spends a lot of time preening too. Might be a coincidence.
I'm leaving her well alone indoors today in case she's just stressed.

Janet


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Janet,

Brief answer from Lyz:

The baldness is treated with frontline small pets drop on!! it's like red mite!! 

Cynthia


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Cynthia,

Appreciate that, will get some tomorrow.

Janet


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Janet,

I have only used Frontline for dogs and cats, never for small pets, so read the instructions carefully to see how small the pet should be. If it isn't clear I will ask Lyz how much to use (it might be just a drop from one vial).

The first photo of Tipsey on her back having her bald spot displayed made me long to give her a cuddle. She is so beautiful and looks so gentle.

Cynthia


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Cynthia,

Parcel arrived just now, brilliant thank you, (took me half an hour to get into it)!

Can I just ask you what you'd advise trying first for the green poops? I know you mentioned Appertex and probiotics could help. Just one at a time or both?

I won't thank you at the end of the day when I haven't got a thing done, but I'm just going back to read my book !!! 

Janet


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

cyro51 said:


> The first photo of Tipsey on her back having her bald spot displayed made me long to give her a cuddle. She is so beautiful and looks so gentle.
> 
> Cynthia


You, too?

Pidgey


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

*Picture of Tipsey's under carriage*

Cynthia and Pidgey,

Tipsey was soooo cross with me for exhibiting her in what she says was a most undignified manor for all to see!!! says she won't be able to look anyone in the eye again. (except when she fixes her beady eye on me).

Well just to make you jealous, we've just been having a cuddle before her bedtime, but don't be fooled, she can deliver a wicked slap and grunt when she wants to. A Gemini I would say, but for all the grunting she does, she is very partial to a cuddle. As soon as she sits in my hand she snuggles down and her eyes keep closing, I think it's the warmth of my hand that sets her off. It's very relaxing for me too. I'll have to try for a picture of that one day.  

Janet


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

At long last I was able to take pictures of Jag so that you can see what Tipsey's probably going to be like:



And here if that picture link doesn't show up for anyone:

http://pets.webshots.com/album/561911690FpGGuI

The first four pictures are of Jag. The last two are of a different bird with a different problem.

Pidgey


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## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

Hi Amyable looks like your sweet little bird has what I would say to be a broken shoulder. If I am correct it will never be able to use the wing again but that doesn't mean he/she wouldn't make a terrific inside pet. Absolutely beautiful bird, looks like my Ginger. Is there anyway of having a vet x-ray it to see if it is broke? I don't know what else to offer is lots of care and love which you are doing such a terrific job in that department. Thanks for caring for him as he will be grateful to you. 


Cindy


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

*Tipsey's Progress*

Hi Pidgey,

Thanks for those pictures. I can see in picture 4 Jag's wing is very flat to his body and hangs right down underneath like Tipsey's. In 3, the feathers running parallel to his leg, are those his leg feathers or is that where you've cut the long flight feathers back?
Tipsey's wing is still slightly flexible, enough for me to look underneath if needed. Between them they would make one perfect piggie as their good wings are on opposite sides!
Tipsey's feathers have grown back well under her wing now as she had scratched them out in her attempts to right herself before I found her. The only difference is, they are a dirty looking colour as opposed to her good wing where the feathers under her wing are nice and white. Some of her long wing feathers have also grown back so I'll need to cut them again as she is getting them wrapped around her legs when she's going anywhere in a hurry, (which is usually when I try to catch her after giving her some 'free-time' in the garden). Talk about a fast mover. 
I haven't had any instances of her falling over for weeks, she balances really well using her good wing, even manages to get up two large steps in the garden which are higher than herself in her efforts to out run me!!

Hi Naturegirl,

Yes I would assume by now that there is nothing that could be done for the shoulder, she does try really hard to fly some times when I first let her out of her cage, she may just be excercising her good wing but she gives it a good workout. Unfortunately I can't keep her as a house pet myself as I have two, not very pigeon friendly dogs. The way I work it at the moment is I have a big potting shed that was re-built this year, and has nothing in it at the moment. She stays in there during the day in a cage on the shelf which enables her to look into the garden as the windows are full length. I put plenty of bird seeds out on the lawn so when the local Woodies and Stock Doves come down for a feed, she can watch them. I keep an eye on her from the house with my binoculars, it's funny when they start feeding, she too starts feeding, just as if she is part of the crowd. She really would love be amongst them. At night, as it's been very cold I bring her in and she sleeps in a large box in a downstairs bathroom with a small penguin toy that I pinched from my dog's toy box. It's not an ideal Pigeon life and I promised her, once Christmas is over I'm going to try and find someone who can offer her a home with some space and some bird company too. She looks so lonely out there in my shed.  I hope she's grateful but I sometimes wonder when she give me a sharp wing slap as I go to move her!!!!! but I still love her.  

Janet


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I haven't had to trim Jag's feathers for quite some time, now. Out in the loft, he gets bumped over quite a bit and has to struggle to get back up but he manages pretty well. I guess you could say that he's learned his own particular collection of survival techniques.

Pidgey


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