# Hygiene: feeding on their own poopy ground



## Florencevegan (Jul 9, 2007)

I have been feeding the flock(about 100 pigeons) (also gulls, starlings, sparrows) for 2 years on a disused car park (formerly supermarket). The ground is now quite pigeon toilet stained. We are fine when the heavy rain comes but in dry weeks the poop stays around and sometimes is quite big and globby. I spread the seeds/grains in long lines and usually form a square or a circle (I mess about to create a kind of art form of shapes!). I try to avoid putting the food on the poop of course but I do worry that they are treading in it and also going in the water bowl and maybe getting germs from their own poo. I take my shoes off before I go indoors always now. How immune are our boys and girls to germs from their own droppings? I would pwer wash or take buckets to wash theg round but it is across a main road from my house and it is nearly impossible to clean it away over there, much as I want to.  
Thanks. Florence, with the poorest flock in the world.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Florence,

You could use a paint scraper and a dustpan and brush to clean up the poop. That is how lofts are cleaned. We usually scrape up the poop from the aviary floor before giving the floor a scrub.


Cynthia


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

I have brought a 3 Gal. pump sprayer (Nolvasan solution, though you could use 1/2 cup bleach to gal. of water) to locations and sprayed to keep the
dust down and loosen the poop, then scraped and swept/picked up and bagged.

They do eat their own poop for the probiotics in them, but there is no 
quality control in a feral as opposed to loft setting  

Anyway, the Trichomonads will die off relatively quickly, but other issues such
as Coccidiosis and Worms remain. Also, other viral and bacterial components that are shed in the droppings can remain viable in the environment for some
time to come.

fp


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## Florencevegan (Jul 9, 2007)

Thanks. Fp, I'm afraid that was all a bit beyond me. Big words all new to me. I'm no scientist or vet. What would they quality control be in a loft setting?
I know I am dreaming thinking I could clean a whole car park. I know they have worms anyway. We will just have to say our prayers and hope for the best, my wild ones and me. We are all starving. Only my cat is not. The Disability Allowance is not enough to go round such a crowd. Surely there must be a pigeon charity that will fund the feeds that destitute people are prepared to do faithfully twice a day 365 days a year (I don't even go out far, never mind holidays). Several unemployed people have said to me they owuld feed the pigeons if they could afford it and that I must be rich. I laugh and say I make extreme sacrifices. Anyway I suppose a few buckets of boiling water would not cost anything. I don't know what Nolvasan is. I don't bleach the environment. A neighbour of mine bleaches her slab path and I say she will hurt he surrounding soil beds. Is bleach not a poison?
Someone put down a melon cut in two today. I tasted it before I would leave it, as sometimes peoplep have put down slug poison disguised, and I swept it up. THe birds were not interested in the melon so I had the job of throwing it away, in already full bins. All such hard work all by myself, in such a bleak cityscape. I pity my bird friends when I read about the luxuries of the American pigeon Dream. I wish they would fly to California and make their fortunes by finding humans who have.
Sad I can't give enough, even a clean floor. Florence. 
Florence.


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## PigeonQueen (Aug 13, 2006)

Hi Florence, Do you have a friend with a car? If so you could ask them to take you to Pets at Home. You can buy a huge 20kg bag of mixed corn for £5.59.It will last you a lot longer than buying lots of small quantities.

Jayne


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Florence, the Red Cross recommends putting Bleach in water to ensure it's safety to drink should need arise and there are Breeders who faithfully add it
to the drinking water. If you are uncomfortable w/that, perhaps a dilution of
Vinegar and Water, I know that Reti uses that for cleaning purposes. 

I would imagine it must be pricey. I wish I could help you regarding where to 
get food inexpensively for the ferals in your area, I am just so not familiar
w/where you live. Perhaps some of the other folks might have some ideas for you that are available in your area. 

fp


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

i'm so sorry, you are in a tough situation, if i could help you i would in a second, sadly, i'm broke, and what is poor here probably isnt poor there, i'm still struggling.
do you have food banks there? what you could do, is if there is someplace that gives away bread, try to get whole wheat or 12 grain bread, and feed them that, it is at least better then starving.
I commend you on putting your troubles aside to worry about the troubles of others. Some people are compassionate, but VERY few are compassionate when their own lives are so very troubled. I know what it's like to decide between feeding the pigeons or myself. I've had to choose before.
See about the food banks, or maybe there is restaraunts that will give you food that has sat, i dont know, i'm guessing here, i dont know what Scotland is like.
Please stay in touch, i would love to hear what happens with you and your birds.
Also, about the poop issue, what you could do is every day feed them in a different spot, doing circles so that in 12 or how ever many days you are starting where you started the circle and keep doing that. just every day put the feed a little bit away from where you had it yesterday, and so on and so on...

good luck with you AND your birds..


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Florence, does your community have a community garden? That's where several people come together and raise crops on a piece of land that is either city or private owned. They all get their own little plot and grow whatever they want. They keep what they want and share the rest. In many American communities, the city coffers pay the water bills and the individuals pay for their own seed and any fertilizer. Many of these gardens also strive to be "organic"; no pesticides and usually natural fertilizer. Perhaps this is a project you could suggest to your council or city farmers that would help many people and also bring a dividend in sharing food abundances. There might be an opportunity to grow something for your feathered friends as well.

Moxie had a good idea about checking restaurants for excess food. I see the bagels that are excessed from a bakery just up the road from us. I certainly hope they go to the local food bank. 30 and 40 gallon sacks full. and that's just one bakery.


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## Florencevegan (Jul 9, 2007)

Thanks folks, managed to get logged in after 2 days of trying. So bleach is not poisonous, thanks. Yes I do move the feeding circle around a little each day (still trying to hide behind a couple of bushes from the hostile neighbours) so the poop dries in. Never heard of food banks or shared gardens! Here it is really rough, all alcoholics and drug addicts and gangs, not at all on people's minds to grow anything, mine is the olny garden for miles. I don't belong here but I am down on my luck and maybe I am meant to be here though it affects my nerves badly, and the hardships and fears. Even if I was givem £200,000 and could buy a house in a decent area, I would not leave my pigeons. People say, "You could feed the birds in a new place, if you moved" but what would happen to my old friends?! They are individual birds, not just specks in the sky. You can't just abandon a flock because it is stuck in a not-nice neighbourhoos now, can you? In the middle class areas, people feed birds, and there are no pigeons anyway, only birds people like. Here in the slums, there are pigeons, but nobody who wants to feed them, they would rather stone them or tear off their wings for a laugh. So I am staying. These are my good neighbours. They bring out the best in me, and they are my reason for living, since my Mum got killed. The birds need me. Nobody else needs me. They give us far more than we give them. Florence.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Florencevegan said:


> They give us far more than we give them. Florence.


This is true, Florence.

To me they are an opportunity to give unconditional love ... whatever I may do for pigeons, I expect nothing but the pleasure of watching them and listening to them. More often than not with our rescued pigeons, I will get pecked or wing-slapped for daring to intrude on their territory - and that's fine, because it shows that they are not frightened of me. It is kind of rewarding when our most human-friendly birds demonstrate pigeon-like affection, but the best thing is seeing a sick or injured bird recover and ... maybe ... find a mate and settle into contented pigeonhood.

John


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## Florencevegan (Jul 9, 2007)

Yes, of course I was not suggesting that I ask anything in return. It is their need and what I can give to them that are the gift to me. I have not had human children so I think my whole love is awakened by these most vulnerable and unvalued beings. Also I failed my teaching career due to ill health and when I greet the birds I use teacher language like "Good morning boys and girls" and "You stay in your own class, this is for the big boys" (gulls) etc. so it fills the gap that would have been my work-life contribution too. I sometimes can't believe that I am allowed to befriend these birds and that they belong to no-one, we are so used to the world of ownership and having to pay. And of course, if anyone asks if they are my birds, I say, "Oh no, nobody owns another creature, they are God's birds". I say the same to "my" cat's vet when he wants a consent signature. The form says "owner" and he is used to me scoring that out now and writing "human friend and carer"! He totally agrees with me. Sadly the last consent form I signed was for a poor abused cat I had taken in for 2 years (at enormous cost in terms of losing my bedroom to keep him, aggressive as he was, separate from Grace-cat) to be euthenased as he was dying a miserable death of kidney failure. Our last day, in all its true love, was on Valentine's Day this year. Sorry if this is off-topic a little. Just on the theme of the exchange of love.


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## Florencevegan (Jul 9, 2007)

*I AM A PIGEON AT LAST! Thank you for my promotion! :-D I will loop the loop and fly the rooftops ten times before bed. xxx*


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Florence, 

If you could have just seen me it would have made you laugh!! I just popped out to my local Tescos, when I arrived I noticed a feral pigeon darting in and out of the cars in the car park looking for food. I fumbled in my pocket and found some nuts and some breadcrumbs. They were left from an earlier walk with my dogs when I fed the birds and ducks in the park.

I started to walk after the pigeon dodging in and out of the parked cars, eager to make sure it saw the food. I then saw a woman looking at me very suspiciously. I think she might have gone into the store to tell the security man When I thought about it I must have looked very odd as if I was scanning the cars to steal from them, so I threw the food down and made a hasty retreat! Still we do these things no matter what people think of us because we care about birds, so keep it up.  

By the way I came home and had forgotten to get what I had gone for in the first place!!!


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

amyable said:


> By the way I came home and had forgotten to get what I had gone for in the first place!!!


 I sometimes go into my kitchen, then come back into the lounge wondering what I'd gone out there for

John


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## Florencevegan (Jul 9, 2007)

John, It was probably food!
Amy, LOL, I do that too at Tesco, and when I have just bought birdie bread, I open it as I walk past all the smokers outside the door and leave a wee trail of the "outsider" crust slice, then walk away fast so that I am not associated with the sudden appearance of pigeons! Tesco are very anti-pigeon and have netting up above their doors. :-( I campaigned outside their door 2 days last week with leaflets against caged hens' eggs and was moved away to a line which was the boundary of their land. Sheesh. So now I know I can drop crumbs beyond that line! ;-) There are CCTV cameras everywhere. Ready to report us to the Society for the Prevention of Kindness to Animals?!
I just went over to Tesco myself, for the morning's birdie bread (I got the seeds earlier from the small grocer)and my soya milk for my cereal, and was looking at all the cereals and oatcakes and things to see what I could feed the birds that might be less yeasty than the cheap bread. No luck as I only had £2 left. Hope you don't remember in the night that it was your breakfast soya milk you went for!
Can we get knowing where you live, even just your continent? WHo knows, we may be feeding birds at the same Tesco!
Florence.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

*Tescos hoodie!*

Hi Florence,

CONGRATULATIONS! on becoming a Pigeon.

Not the same Tescos store as you, the milk would be sour by the time I drove home from yours! North Birmingham continent, West Midlands.

Keep up the good work,

Amyable


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> Ready to report us to the Society for the Prevention of Kindness to Animals?!


Oh, I like that term. I suspect that there are quite a few of its members where I live!

Cynthia


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Florencevegan said:


> John, It was probably food!


You could be right. Maybe I should ask my balcony pigeons if they have a few brain cells they could spare me - at least they seem to know what they are doing, simple life though they may lead.

John


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## Florencevegan (Jul 9, 2007)

*We need bird brain cells...*

 They have less on their minds, John. They leave the worrying about feeds, diseases, culls, predators to us. But that's what humans are for.


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## pigeonpoo (Sep 16, 2005)

Florencevegan said:


> looking at all the cereals and oatcakes and things to see what I could feed the birds that might be less yeasty than the cheap bread. No luck as I only had £2 left.


Florence, if you can find a corn merchant you can buy about 25 kilos of pigeon mix for around £7.00 - save you a fortune in bread and much more nutritious for the birds. If you PM me your location I'll try to find your nearest supplier.


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## Florencevegan (Jul 9, 2007)

um, can't see today how to send a private message. Would it be visible by the government spies anyway? I don't want them to shoot my flock. 
I don't just feed th epigeons cheap bread! That is just their pudding, and the gulls will only take that, won't touch seeds/grains etc. (wild bird food, 50p for 1 kg). I can't buy in bulk as I have - 
a) no car (or money to pay a delivery)
b) live on top flat and there is no lift and I can't manage to carry a big bag up the stairs
c) have nowhere to store big bag in tiny flat
So I have to just buy my 6 little bags (and 4 big loaves) daily. I feed twice a day, 3 kg each time and 2 big loaves each time. It costs me £28 a week and I am only on Benefits (albeit Disability rate). I have ended up in big debt. I can't believe there is no charity to help pigeon feeds, even some informal charity of rich folk who want to feed but haven't got time or don't want to do it themselves. Funny old world. My family are mad at me for spending my food money on pigeons and for putting my tenancy in jeopardy. But I cannot watch them starve. 
Thanks for your suggestion and concern, PP. I can't bear to call you Poo!
Florence.


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## Florencevegan (Jul 9, 2007)

PS It was not me who got this flock dependent. I worry so much who will take them over when I die.


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Florence, up under your welcome name (top right hand corner) there's a link to Private messages. Click on that and it will take you to the area where you can private message someone. 
The easier way -- Click on a person's name and there will be a small list of options come up. There's one that says "send a private message" and one that says "send an email". Click on either of those and you will be forwarded to one of those functions. 
Just remember to put something in the subject line of the private message or it won't go. Keep those short. If you need to be long-winded, go the email route (that's me  ).

I think pms are as secure as other communications. They can't tell any more about you that way than on the public forum. 

Corn sounds good for your pidgies. I know buying in bulk sounds unworkable but it would help you stretch your budget further and help your flock better. Trust me, the bag isn't that big. Maybe you could get some help to carry it up or maybe the supplier might break it into 10 kilo bags for you. It's worth thinking about.


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## pigeonpoo (Sep 16, 2005)

Florencevegan said:


> Thanks for your suggestion and concern, PP. I can't bear to call you Poo!


The name is courtesy of my teenage daughter!! I couldn't mange to register myself (total technophobe), she was much amused by my amazement at how much poo (or poop as they call it on the other side of the big pond) a baby pigeon can produce! This was long ago when I acquired my first bird, now, forty birds later, I guess that I am immune to the volume. 

Call me what you want, I really don't mind!! 

I appreciate your problem in bulk buying, though flitsnowzoom has a good suggestion - splitting the larger bags but, without transport .......


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## Florencevegan (Jul 9, 2007)

Poo, I see. A few white birds come to my feeds, wild ones. Dovey, Speckle, Tartan, Quicksilver. Today a new fellow, brown and white, like painted brush strokes, all interwoven, absolutely beautiful, not a youngster so i don't understand the sudden appearance, and no captivity bracelet either, but he must be the offspring of Brownie my red pouter, and maybe Dovey the almost all white. I nearly neglected my two disabled ones (have to put the food really near them as they can't walk for toes-lost)to watch this amazing beauty. Also a gull with splayed leg, agony to watch. A trapper was after the white ones and red one. I reported him to the police and told him so. The Police were very good and are watching the area, but I haveto worry too they will stop me feeding. I laughed at your profile- knitting for prematures! So that it is small? I would rather knit for dolls or birds! i.e. I can't knit - well, maybe a kettle-holder! :-( Do you breed white birds? Or feed poor birds? Or both?
How many people on here are in the UK? Is there a little corner for us alone on the site? We have specific issues perhaps, different laws and attitudes. 
Florence


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Florencevegan said:


> How many people on here are in the UK? Is there a little corner for us alone on the site? We have specific issues perhaps, different laws and attitudes.
> Florence


I'm sure you could get a little niche going about UK issues and laws, however, whatever comes down the pike for you or anywhere else in the world for that matter concerning pigeons, is of importance to all of us, because this is an international community and we share the same concerns and usually suffer from the same sorts of rules and regulations. We are all just little pebbles in our local ponds but we can make a difference. 

If there is a particularly "hot" topic in your area (sick birds, local poisioning efforts, new laws -- whatever) make sure you put that in the title of your new thread so it will catch your compatriots attention. The rest of us can help by sending pms, emails, letters, etc to people we know that are somewhat more local so you can maybe get a few "ground troops" or a bit of local help.


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