# Racing Pigeon Digest Article



## learning (May 19, 2006)

Hey Folks,

I don't know how many of you get the Racing Pigeon Digest but in the latest issue there is a great article about the Flamingo International Challenge One Loft Race. It includes pictures and bios about some of last year's winners and there is a great picture of one of the winners being held be Lew Burns. Some of you may not know it but Lew Burns is the partner of none other than our own Warren Smith! Yes, that's right, this bird took equal first in last year's 350 as well as top finishes in the preliminary races!

The article talks about how this bird was one of the most consistent birds in last year's series of races! Way to go Warren. Seems like there is even more proof that we have a real professional in our midst! 

Check out the article if you haven't already.

Dan


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Way to go Warren!  

Thanks for sharing, Dan.


----------



## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Congrats, Warren--must be all that ACV and garlic they've been feeding on  .
Thanks for posting, Dan!

fp


----------



## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Oh gees Warrens head is going to get even bigger. Like they always say, if they aren't razzing you, you aren't winning. They also say that no one likes a winner, but we still like you Warren. Was that bird Ludo blood or some of your Ganus stuff?

Randy


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

*Are Smith Family Lofts USA "HOT" or full of hot air ?*



hillfamilyloft said:


> Oh gees Warrens head is going to get even bigger. Like they always say, if they aren't razzing you, you aren't winning. They also say that no one likes a winner, but we still like you Warren. Was that bird Ludo blood or some of your Ganus stuff?
> 
> Randy


Ah...gee....folks.....I am blushing !  Thanks for taking notice Dan...my email has been packed with notes of congradulations. 

Randy....as for your question....I will tell you in all seriousness, the bird is a 100% "SMITH", the parents...and the grandparents....were the result of the selections of Smith Family Lofts USA. No credit is owed or due to either Mr. Claessen or Mr. Ganus. 

The writer of the article Tom Smith (no relation) may have thought that I was being coy...when I said that the bird was part of the Smith Family Line. What he and others expect I suppose...is for me to go back to the great grand parents and say it was 12.5% this and 25% that, which serves what purpose ?

Ludo can and has taken in a stray and bred from it....what are the young considered ? Why a 100% "Ludo", even when a total outcross, see my web site and find Late Rode 430...Mike Ganus can take a bird from this loft...and a bird from that loft...and what are the offspring ? Why...100% "GANUS" birds.. 

This year, some offspring from the "BIG DEAL" are in the 2007 Flamingo, if they should be cash winners, will people finally accept the fact that they are 100% Smith Family Loft USA strain ? Or will people still be concerned with who the Great-Great-Grand Parents were ? And say well this bird was 6.5% of this on the great-great-grandparents paternal side....6.5% of this or that...and 2.5 % of this on the great-great-great side ? etc. etc. etc. 

I can say with all honestly and sincerity, (but perhaps lacking modesty), let Mike and Ludo gather up the courage and enter the Flamingo International Challenge...and let's see the best that they got. I am afraid that Mike and his million dollar plus inventory got whipped so bad last year that he will be a no show in 2007...and my good friend Ludo knows that he better stay in Holland...cause if he exports his YB's to the USA to compete on American soil...that American bred...SFL USA birds will win without the benifit of his superior racing management. 

If you think that I am simply full of a lot of hot air...then put up a little wad of Benjamin Franklin's and pick the flier that you feel will beat all the SFL USA banded birds...and we can have a little side wager going on. But, I need to see the green.


----------



## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

CONGRATULATIONS, WARREN !!

...from ANOTHER who loves the color "green!"   ..and will put her money where her mouth is... 

Shi


----------



## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

Hello All,

What did the title say *Are Smith Family Lofts USA "HOT" or full of hot air ?* I'll let other's decide for themselves. As for myself all I will say is that Warren has earned some bragging rights in that regard. As for whether the birds are Smith blood, Ludo or Ganus blood or something altoghether different does it really matter, they are winning for you, course I'd bet they are of mixed blood, you know not pure Smith, Ludo, or Ganus. The real question is will Warren be able in the long haul to keep those bragging rights. Or will he go the way of most of the others is the past, the one night wonders and such? 

Now I'm not trying to start an argument with you Warren! But time will tell wont it! 

*It's not so much what one did in the past that matters, It's can they continue to duplicate or improve in the future that matters.*

Lawman


----------



## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

When I asked the question of bloodline, I was wanting to bank information. I know Warren keeps some of his Ludo bloodline "pure", or as pure as he can. I like to see if there is consistency in blood that is winning futurities. I do ask because if you find blood that is consistently winning, you aquire some of those birds. I add new blood into my birds, but do it selectively. I like to add winning blood into my winning blood. If Warren wins multiple futurities with a selective gene pool, I may seek birds from that bloodline or mixed blood. Yes I would like to know which pair of Warren's wins him money. Like I would want to know which blood of Ganuses, Beache, Crazy Al etc wins them money. If you bank this information, then it would be easier to aquire birds that will add to your own gene pool and not hurt. I look at Mike Ganus and look at the birds that he flies in Belgium. They are off of Ikon, Topo, the President etc. Then I look at which ones are winning. Then you aquire birds with similar genes. Warren knows which pairs of his are the best, just like I know which pairs are my best. If you win then It is easier to trade birds, aquire birds at auction or ask for what you want. We all have good birds and we all have bad birds, even those winning big futurities. I won 5 races last year sending 15 birds to ABQ. The winners were down from three pairs of birds. The hens in two of the pairs are sisters and the other pair was offspring of the first two. Yes, I know which birds are my best. 

Randy


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

lawman said:


> Hello All,
> 
> What did the title say *Are Smith Family Lofts USA "HOT" or full of hot air ?* I'll let other's decide for themselves. As for myself all I will say is that Warren has earned some bragging rights in that regard. As for whether the birds are Smith blood, Ludo or Ganus blood or something altoghether different does it really matter, they are winning for you, course I'd bet they are of mixed blood, you know not pure Smith, Ludo, or Ganus. The real question is will Warren be able in the long haul to keep those bragging rights. Or will he go the way of most of the others is the past, the one night wonders and such?
> 
> ...


Hey Lawman, !

Long time no see !!  

Point well taken, which is why I should try to restrain myself, and be a wee bit more modest...just in case I get whipped a good one !!


----------



## desmet (Jun 5, 2007)

I don't know you yet friend, but I like the way you operate already. I'm not saying that those other guy's don't have some good stuff, but they sell for high dollar, and I've seen them beat in my combine on a consistant basis. Good birds don't care about their pedigree. Their just good.


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

*A New Authentic Strain or Flash in the Pan ?*



desmet said:


> I don't know you yet friend, but I like the way you operate already. I'm not saying that those other guy's don't have some good stuff, but they sell for high dollar, and I've seen them beat in my combine on a consistant basis. Good birds don't care about their pedigree. Their just good.


Dear Desmet,


Once upon a time....my method for selecting breeding candidates and pairings, were made in large part, by sitting in front of a computer screen working with my loft management software comparing race records and pedigrees. And although I believe these tools play a part in the management of one's breeding program. Such a methodology can be problematic in that people will tend to make it a paper exercise.

The development of premiere family lines, is an art form and a science. If one is not constantly looking to improve their own skills in this discipline, then as The Law Man stated, one can lose the edge they may have once possessed.
History is full of examples of fanciers who happened to own a star breeder perhaps by pure chance, and this bird sent them to the top of their club and combine with their star offspring. Then....the foundation bird died or was sold..and the success declined and perhaps they just became average again. 

We all may know of situations where commercial breeders are still selling birds based on what they did 10..or 15 years ago...except they are now selling grand children down from that long dead bird. Except now, the results are simply average...because the buyers are only looking at the piece of paper.

Only time will tell, if the Smith Family Lofts USA have cultivated a true authentic premiere strain, or have simply produced a few "flashes in the pan".


----------



## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Warren does have a point. I am at the argument that if you put two hens and two cocks of equal pedigree in a loft and let them chose mates, that you will be better off than trying to do it yourself. Winners come in all sizes and shapes as long as the birds are not the size of turkeys or sparrows. The Europeans always laugh at those crazy Americans that buy paper. A good rule of thumb is that if a guy beats you, you buy his birds. As a defense of the super breeders. You do see Ganus, Peeman, CBS on the race sheets. They do also enter half the birds in some races. When I look to these breeders for birds I look and see what they send to the races. Look at what Ganus flies in Europe. Look at the pedigrees of the birds that are winning. These guys are just like you and me. Not all their birds are good. They know which ones to send to the futurities. They make tons of money selling paper. Why, because people buy it. I have birds from Peeman and Ganus and CBS, but they are also down from winners or brothers and sisters of winners. Their offspring have also won me races. For instance my CBS Engles cock is a nest mate to 2nd 200 mile leg of the Spirit of Colorado race. His young have won me 3 races. Warren has good birds that can compete with any out there today. I am sure Warren will also have birds he sends to races that do not fare well. I also know Warren has Ganus birds in his loft and Ganus has Ludo birds in his loft. I do argue that the so called super breeders, that we love so much to bash, have done us good in importing birds of higher quality. You will be hard pressed to find a Futurity winner that has not benefited from these super breeders in some way. 

Randy


----------



## kalapati (Aug 29, 2006)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> I can say with all honestly and sincerity, (but perhaps lacking modesty), let Mike and Ludo gather up the courage and enter the Flamingo International Challenge...and let's see the best that they got. I am afraid that Mike and his million dollar plus inventory got whipped so bad last year that he will be a no show in 2007...and my good friend Ludo knows that he better stay in Holland...cause if he exports his YB's to the USA to compete on American soil...that American bred...SFL USA birds will win without the benifit of his superior racing management.




hi warren,


the ganus birds are in now.

http://tinyurl.com/27977z



kalapati


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

kalapati said:


> hi warren,
> 
> 
> the ganus birds are in now.
> ...


Hello Kalapati,

Yes, you are correct.....Mike has come out of hiding, bound and determined I am sure, not to suffer the same humilation this year, perhaps this year he will break out his really good stuff like his Aviator offspring at $3500 each http://www.ganusfamilyloft.com/aviator2.htm or his really really good stuff like Golden Mattens offspring at $8500 each !  http://www.ganusfamilyloft.com/goldenmattens2.htm ...then again...maybe they are too good for racing, just breeding.... 

At any rate, Mike and his sweet wife Debbie, have entered their teams along with over 100 hopeful breeders, into what is becoming a truly premiere National USA contest !!  Certainly looks like it's a who's who of the professional racing pigeon world. My hat is off to all of them, and I wish them all well.

The "TOP GUN BREEDERS CUP" see : http://www.flamingoic.com/index.php...ts&PHPSESSID=47ad3c9051261208bcc95379f772f2bd is an average speed award for this four race series, and I think the organizers have designed an event which could clearly demonstrate which breeders are producing the real racing pigeons. Last year I watched the race live on their web cam.


----------



## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Warren 
You speak of the Flamingo like it is the only competition in the US of A or the world. Why do you not have birds in the World Ace Challenge or the Veagas Classic, or do you? The world Ace has the likes of Koopman, Herbots, and other fanciers from around the world. I think Ganus had an equal first in the Vegas Race last year. I also think the WAC is a 5 race series. CBS also has a couple of races with three or more races. Do you enter the AU race etc. Just wondering why the Flamingo is the only competition? My excuse is that I am a poor school teacher and cannot race in the big races. I do agree that some of these big breeders try and buy races and do not always fair well. I will give you credit that you had one of 18 or 19 birds on the first drop at the Flamingo, but my question is why not the other big races? And are those other 17 birds equal to yours?

Randy


----------



## learning (May 19, 2006)

hillfamilyloft said:


> Warren
> You speak of the Flamingo like it is the only competition in the US of A or the world. Why do you not have birds in the World Ace Challenge or the Veagas Classic, or do you? The world Ace has the likes of Koopman, Herbots, and other fanciers from around the world. I think Ganus had an equal first in the Vegas Race last year. I also think the WAC is a 5 race series. CBS also has a couple of races with three or more races. Do you enter the AU race etc. Just wondering why the Flamingo is the only competition? My excuse is that I am a poor school teacher and cannot race in the big races. I do agree that some of these big breeders try and buy races and do not always fair well. I will give you credit that you had one of 18 or 19 birds on the first drop at the Flamingo, but my question is why not the other big races? And are those other 17 birds equal to yours?
> 
> Randy


Oh Boy!  

Before Warren chimes in on this one it might be a good time to go get your flack jackets and hard hats. This may well turn into a war zone! I think the gauntlet has been laid in the sand.

Now remember fellas, this is a family site. Let's keep everything civil now!  

Dan


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

learning said:


> Oh Boy! .....
> 
> Before Warren chimes in on this one it might be a good time to go get your flack jackets and hard hats. This may well turn into a war zone! I think the gauntlet has been laid in the sand.
> 
> ...


What...? Do I get excited sometimes ?  ........Nah...... 
I am just a simple working man myself, I don't earn as much as those highly paid school teachers, so when it comes to races like the WAC where Mike Ganus entered 20 some odd birds last year at $1000 a pop !  well....after awhile it adds up to real money. Besides, we are a small operation, trying to breed better birds, so we don't like some of the money races that Randy mentioned, because you lose ownership of the bird, as it is placed up for auction after the race. We need them back here for breeding purposes, and besides there are/were some serious allegations of impropriety at some of the races mentioned. So we want to support good, honest, well run events, of which the Flamingo is World Class. After all, it is the quality, not the quanity that counts.

As it is, we are in the following:
AU Convention - Loft Managers Lynn Helminski and Joey & Arnold's Loft
Hawaii- Two Money Band Races - Loft Manager Mark Bustin
Motor City Auction Race - Loft Managers John Musham and Lynn Helminski
Toledo Auction Race - Lynn Helminski
Chlastawa Race - " " 
Toledo 300 Special - " "
ABC One Loft Race - " "
UPC Auction Race - Rich German

This is not the complete list, but ones I have been directly involved in, there are 2007 YB teams which are going to fly in various combine and club auction races around the country. When and if I get to the point where I am selling hundreds of thousands of dollars in birds each year, just like some of my commercial competitors, then I am sure my participation in some of these other events will increase in number, just like the big boys. 

The other challenge is I am not a breeding farm or breeding station, so I don't have the vast numbers the commercial operators have. Perhaps if I sent a dozen or more birds to every One Loft Race or Auction Race in the country, then I would have more to brag about ?


----------



## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

hey guys

Well I had a great post here and it went away. What I was trying to say is that I was just trying to get a rise out of Warren about the Flamingo. I also wanted to point out that there are two separate groups of pigeon people here. Those who are developing good birds and those who broker the birds. They buy the best to profit off their youngsters. You look at Rick Mardis who has CBS. He is in my opinion both. He brokers hundreds of birds a year off of imported birds he buys. He also races and flies a team of birds. If you look at the pedigrees of his race team they are fairly similar. Most Kieser Janssen birds. Ganus is the same way. He sells you birds off big names for big prices. He flies a loft in Europe off a few select families, ie. Topo, Magic Star, Mattens. Warren is a breeder not a broker. He is developing a Smith family of birds. The best middle distance birds he can. If you look at those who are successful you will see a family tree of birds. Birds from their best. They are not a hodge podge of birds. Their young birds all look like peas in a pod. Marcel Sangers birds are down from the 05 and 007. Most of Koopmans birds are down from the Klien Dirk. Vandenabelle the same way. When these guys sell you birds they are from thier family of tested birds not brokered birds. If my grandson of Magic Star and Ikon does not breed winners, he is on the race team or given to the next guy. My point being, I do understand why Warren does not enter hundreds of futurities a year. He has a small operation on a budget and his goal is not to broker birds. He does not buy wins in futurities. I also understand that if he wins he wants the birds back and not to make a buck at auction. One thing we do have to understand is that we have benefited from the brokers. Warren has his Ludos, his president blood, with help from Ganus. I have quality birds from Ganus, CBS, OHF. What we do with the birds is the difference. Warren and I are trying to establish a quality middle distance bird. They are selling birds. I am in a futurity that has only 80 birds in it, but from 20 or so faniciers with philosopys like mine. Capt Chuck, Red Rose, Crazy AL. This to me is fun competition and I get my birds back. I would be much more worried about a bird with a band that had SFL, Capt or Red Rose than CBS or GFL because I would know that it would be consistently good a pea in a pod. I would also know what I was racing against. We will see what the DRO birds do this year. 

Randy


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> What...?....So we want to support good, honest, well run events, of which the Flamingo is World Class. After all, it is the quality, not the quanity that counts.
> 
> As it is, we are in the following:
> AU Convention - Loft Managers Lynn Helminski and Joey & Arnold's Loft
> ...


Where I have inserted " " concerning several races...apparently...there may be some small token wagers in order to support... I believe it is a local church or veteren's organization and such...and that I should not comment on these races...just yet....or in other words....I am to shut up....


----------



## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Be a it well named loft XXX or XXX they still raise poor birds. AND then the buyers buy those poor birds with a big piece of paper. Sure now the birds that have proven records cost more from these lofts. BUt they are the ones you know how they had done. Far as 1 loft races go Its a chance to prove the birds aginst other well known lofts. And now days to if you are lucky to make a little money. Race in the clubs where the big boys race you still get a win over them same goes at the 1 loft races You just have to pay the entry. Which that gets a little high The old saying anybody can buy a winner not everone can breed a winner. That my friends is where the few good lofts stand out they breed the winners not just for there self but for the others that strive to improve.


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

hillfamilyloft said:


> hey guys
> 
> ...... What I was trying to say is that I was just trying to get a rise out of Warren about the Flamingo. I also wanted to point out that there are two separate groups of pigeon people here. Those who are developing good birds and those who broker the birds. They buy the best to profit off their youngsters. .....Topo, Magic Star, Mattens. Warren is a breeder not a broker. He is developing a Smith family of birds. The best middle distance birds he can....... Most of Koopmans birds are down from the Klien Dirk. Vandenabelle the same way. When these guys sell you birds they are from thier family of tested birds not brokered birds....Randy




Randy,

I was just trying to get a rise out of you. And in turn, you shower me with these great compliments. Thank you.

Like I am reminded from time to time, this sport requires a great amount of humility. I confess, I possess a very high degree of self confidence, three years of active duty as a US Army Paratrooper, during "Viet Nam", has trained me to see opportunities, where others see only challenges. 

If I sometimes write like I am on some high horse, let me be the first to also admit, that I have made more mistakes then any of the readers of this post. I am pretty darn sure that is a fair statement. 

I also admit that I really admire the top ten lofts, the top 100, the top 1000 whoever and where ever they may be. 

Many of us who are competitive, or at least dream of being so....have to at first believe in our minds, that our birds will fly over new mountains, and win more awards....then Carter has liver pills. If we can't believe it is possible...then it is not possible.

Ever year, I learn how really stupid that I am....every time I think my level should make me pretty sharp, I figure out, how much I must have really embarrassed myself.

I sometimes partake in some horn blowing, forcing myself to live up to the expectations I have placed upon myself. And for my close friends who know me, there is a winking eye, when I pat myself on the back. 

Like a day of golf, baseball, tennis, etc. whatever the game... at the end of the day, we all like to talk about the game...and this pigeon talk makes it all the more fun...even when we don't do as well as we would have liked. 

I will not be the best loft manager, or the best merchant, in this game we call pigeon racing. My goal from the very start was very simple and very straight foward. 

Design and build the Best American Made, Born in the USA...Family of pigeons, which are designed and built for the YB season events such as in a multi-race One Loft situation, or in a season of club races.


----------



## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Warren 
Other than the AU race do any of the races you entered have web pages? If so, can you send me the links. I would like to track the races. I try and study as many as I can. I am looking for those who have lines or families of birds that compete well in numerous races. Always looking to add a bird or two that are from winning families. I was reading your web page on breeding strategies. I was curious where it said for the small guy raise two separate lines, and cross for racers. Are most of your racers from crossed birds? Do you race the linebred or inbred lines of your birds? I sent an inbred (brother sister mating first generation) bird to the Hawaii race to test the bloodline. I know this goes against the philosophies of much I read about race birds. I think the dam of the bird is in love with me. She lands on my back, bobs her head at me and chaises me around the loft. I had to send one of her kids to the races. Crazy way to select, but its my whacky stock sense. Do you send these kind of birds, inbred or linebred, or are yours mostly crosses?

oh yea, the pair's siblings have won three races and bred me a 300 mile winner.

Randy


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

hillfamilyloft said:


> Warren
> Other than the AU race do any of the races you entered have web pages? If so, can you send me the links. I would like to track the races. I try and study as many as I can. I am looking for those who have lines or families of birds that compete well in numerous races. Always looking to add a bird or two that are from winning families. I was reading your web page on breeding strategies. I was curious where it said for the small guy raise two separate lines, and cross for racers. Are most of your racers from crossed birds? Do you race the linebred or inbred lines of your birds? I sent an inbred (brother sister mating first generation) bird to the Hawaii race to test the bloodline. I know this goes against the philosophies of much I read about race birds. I think the dam of the bird is in love with me. She lands on my back, bobs her head at me and chaises me around the loft. I had to send one of her kids to the races. Crazy way to select, but its my whacky stock sense. Do you send these kind of birds, inbred or linebred, or are yours mostly crosses?
> 
> oh yea, the pair's siblings have won three races and bred me a 300 mile winner.
> ...


 While doing a search for "Loft Mangement" attempting to find an old link to the Hawkeye Loft Management System, I came across this old one. 

My thinking has changed a bit, since these last posts, where I may have suggested somewhere along the line, the theory of keeping two seperate lines and crossing them for breeding. Under that theory, the crosses are used for racing. What I found was that a great pigeon, even if a cross, can make a great breeder. I don't study pedigrees like I use to, now it is simply one of the tools in the tool box. 

This year, I am experimenting with some birds at the Winners Cup :http://www.winnerscupusa.com/ 

My loft and thinking has evolved into what I refer to as "Colony Management", which means for me, a single family with a number of branches throughout the family tree. As a "good" bird comes along, it is given an opportunity to contribute to the Colony gene pool. My 6th place cash winner in this year's 300 mile, Pa. Dutch Classic has the same Dam as last year's 1st Place 350 Mile Flamigo winner. All of the birds in this year's Winners Cup are all closely related and by most accounts, would be considered highly inbred. 

My thinking is that to move the Colony or family line forward, pigeons which are highly inbred, and still competitive, are highly desireable in the breeding loft. Several of the birds in the Winners Cup have several generations of brother to sister matings in their back grounds. As long as the birds continue to win, I will contine to inbreed. 

The challenge is to find birds better then what I currently own, in which to cross with. That has been the biggest challenge.


----------

