# Will feral pigeons beget homers?



## tracecom (Jun 29, 2007)

I have gotten interested in keeping pigeons and have read quite a bit on this site and elsewhere. However, I don't know anyone in my area (West Tennessee) that keeps pigeons, so I'll ask my stupid questions here.

If I had a mated pair of feral pigeons, and kept them in a loft, and they raised, would the offspring be feral pigeons, or could they be trained to "home" to that loft?

Thanks in advance.

P.S. I know that offspring of a feral pair wouldn't win any races, but would they "home?"


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## Eriduardo (Aug 28, 2006)

tracecom said:


> I have gotten interested in keeping pigeons and have read quite a bit on this site and elsewhere. However, I don't know anyone in my area (West Tennessee) that keeps pigeons, so I'll ask my stupid questions here.
> 
> If I had a mated pair of feral pigeons, and kept them in a loft, and they raised, would the offspring be feral pigeons, or could they be trained to "home" to that loft?
> 
> ...



First of all I don't think you're question is stupid. I'll try to answer your question to the best of my knowledge. Offspring of ferals could be trained to home, well not home but see your loft as their home and therefore fly back if let out, they can also learn how to trap like homers if taught. But they have one problem, and that is that their homing ability isn't that great and could get lost if released the distance homers are released. They would do great if you gave them an open loft because they would know how far they could go and not get lost, they can measure themselves we can say. But they wouldn't be able to home from far far away. Hope this answers your question.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

tracecom said:


> I have gotten interested in keeping pigeons and have read quite a bit on this site and elsewhere. However, I don't know anyone in my area (West Tennessee) that keeps pigeons, so I'll ask my stupid questions here.
> 
> If I had a mated pair of feral pigeons, and kept them in a loft, and they raised, would the offspring be feral pigeons, or could they be trained to "home" to that loft?
> 
> ...


 Most ferals...if they had pedigrees...would have racing pigeons somewhere in their family tree. Of course, there are hundreds of breeds and some of them get lost also...but my guess is many more racing pigeons turn feral every year then all the other breeds put together. So that being the case...yes they would "home" but not because of any "training" that you would give. It's in their genes. Of course if you are going to pay the many hundreds of dollars to race....why would you ship a feral to a race ?  Which National Organization have you contacted to find out who else in West Tennessee is flying pigeons ? That's what I thought....check out the AU...they will contact your closest club for you http://www.pigeon.org/findaclub.php


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## tracecom (Jun 29, 2007)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Which National Organization have you contacted to find out who else in West Tennessee is flying pigeons ? That's what I thought....check out the AU...they will contact your closest club for you http://www.pigeon.org/findaclub.php


I assume you think I haven't contacted any organization. To the contrary, I sent in a request for information to the ARPU and got an automated reply from Karen Clifton stating that someone will mail info to me within 15 days.

However, thanks for the rest of your response.


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## tracecom (Jun 29, 2007)

Eriduardo said:


> First of all I don't think you're question is stupid. I'll try to answer your question to the best of my knowledge. Offspring of ferals could be trained to home, well not home but see your loft as their home and therefore fly back if let out, they can also learn how to trap like homers if taught. But they have one problem, and that is that their homing ability isn't that great and could get lost if released the distance homers are released. They would do great if you gave them an open loft because they would know how far they could go and not get lost, they can measure themselves we can say. But they wouldn't be able to home from far far away. Hope this answers your question.


Eriduardo,

Thanks for the input to my question. Would the theoretical offspring of these feral pigeons who lived in my theoretical loft still be feral? I guess my real question is whether being feral is the result of living free or is there a real genetic difference between feral pigeons and "kept" pigeons? Admittedly, I don't squat about pigeons, but when I look at the pictures of homing pigeons, they look just like the ones I see flying around cities. Can you look at a pigeon and know immediately whether it's feral or a homer?

Thanks.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

tracecom said:


> I assume you think I haven't contacted any organization. To the contrary, I sent in a request for information to the ARPU and got an automated reply from Karen Clifton stating that someone will mail info to me within 15 days.
> 
> However, thanks for the rest of your response.


Well then you are on the ball !! Don't know anything about your area, but as you can see...now you know a whole lot of people who keep pigeons...


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## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

I have had feral babies before and they home just fine. I never took them very far to release them but they will home.

Trace you can tell a feral from a homer by looking at them. Maybe some are very simular but most can be picked out right away by someone that has been into pigeons very long.


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Hi Tracecom,
I don't think there's a lot of difference in appearance between ferals and homers, but then I'm just a bird lover. Maybe homers are a bit more buxom, _ala_ Dolly Parton. I would think that ferals, having descended from domestic pigeons, just like the feral cats and dogs that are around, could be "pets" after the first generation. I imagine if you had your little feral family and they got used to you being the distributor of munchies, drinks and kind words, would tame down and become more trusting. Their offspring, if treated with kindness would probably view you as a very peculiar pigeon, if somewhat retarded in the flying department  .
Based on my observations, ferals have a home base and will try and return regardless of what is going on at the home. I don't know if they would "home" if you were the one to transport them off-site or if they have to fly round-trip. I don't know the distances they would be able to "home" back to either, but I don't imagine it would be too far. 
Homing pigeons have the instinct, but they also have to be trained to home.
Anyway, welcome to Pigeon-Talk -- and no questions are "stupid" because we all have to start learning somewhere.


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## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

Hello All,

At the risk of starting another argument, the question of, is there any difference between a feral and a homer? Well it sounds a lot like a loaded question to me!

The best way I know to describe it would be to compare a thoroughbred race horse to (well lets make it his feral cousin) a mustang. Yes they have the same genetic make up. But anyone who is willing to take a second look can plainly see that a wild mustang does not a thoroughbred race horse make. They are not built nor do they look the same.

There is not a mustang that could be tamed nor its dirrect children, that could then be placed on a race track with any possible hope of having it be competitive against his thoroughbred cousins. 

It would take years of breeding with the mustang to get one that could complete, the same would be true of feral pigeons. 

Lawman


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## tracecom (Jun 29, 2007)

Thanks for all the responses. I certainly don't want to start an argument; just chalk my questions up to ignorance.

I don't have plans to race pigeons (feral or otherwise.) I am just thinking about a small flock (12 or so) that I could allow to fly free and maybe gradually take farther and farther from the loft and have them return.

My wife and I are building a house in the country, and this pigeon idea is just that - an idea that sounds like fun. I understand that a loft is required (which I can build) and pigeons are required (which I could get from a breeding pair that I bought or maybe trapped.) At this stage, I am just trying to learn.


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

A similar question was asked of a person (near where I live) that does the white homer release. His answer was basically that it was a trait that was honed through generations and generations of breeding. Like you said, the difference between a mustang and another horse breed or different dog breeds and mutts. But for someone who would like to "spot" a quick difference (forget about speed and endurance), what physical features might stand out as compared to a typical rock dove?  Are they bigger, chestier, longer? I've been asked this question, and since I don't "do" pigeons, except in a relatively academic way, I'd like to provide a reasonable answer to another layperson. thanks.


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Oh, heck, tracecom, if you want pigeons, just go to the adoption section on this board when the time comes. You might get showered with suitors  . There's always lost birds that need forever homes, and even if you can't release them, they will (guaranteed) have babies.  and those will fly around for you. Beats the socks off an aquarium any day.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Count me in.
I'll send you some beauties tha will home for you. 
I'm not kidding.


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## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

I dont think its fair to catch ferals and put them into a loft unless they are injured and have a problem fending for themselves. If you do have a situation like this then it should be ok.

Many good people are looking for good homes so be patient and keep reading. You will get some good pigeons here.


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## tracecom (Jun 29, 2007)

flitsnowzoom said:


> A similar question was asked of a person (near where I live) that does the white homer release. His answer was basically that it was a trait that was honed through generations and generations of breeding. Like you said, the difference between a mustang and another horse breed or different dog breeds and mutts. But for someone who would like to "spot" a quick difference (forget about speed and endurance), what physical features might stand out as compared to a typical rock dove?  Are they bigger, chestier, longer? I've been asked this question, and since I don't "do" pigeons, except in a relatively academic way, I'd like to provide a reasonable answer to another layperson. thanks.


flitsnowzoom,

I had hoped that someone would answer your question; it is one of the many things I want to know. I stumbled across this article on another web site; whether it's true or not, I cannot say, but it goes a long way to answering your question. Check it out - especially the paragraph on appearances. http://www.racingpigeonmall.com/loft/articles/How_to_breed.html

Charis,

Thanks for the kind offer. When I get a loft built, we'll talk.

warriec,

You may be right, however it seems to me that if I took two pigeons from the wild that were mating and producing offspring, and I provided them food and shelter for...say a year...and I got 12 chicks from them and provided them food and shelter. And I opened the loft and left them all have the choice to leave or stay, what harm has been done? I have provided for the mated pair far better than they would have had in the wild and the offspring's survival rate and quality of life would likely be better than in the wild.

I don't see the harm.


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## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

Around here I can tell the ferals very easy from homers. The biggest thing is their head is alot different. The slant from the beak to the top of the head is alot straighter on a homer. The head on ferals here goes upward off the beak like a roller more than a homer. Maybe in other areas the homers are more breed into the wild population but here you can tell right away.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Another good place to look is the AU Yearbook. It lists all the fliers in TN. I would call them, join and ask them to send you one. 

Randy


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

This one might help.

http://www.pigeoncote.com/clubs/clubs.html


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## pooroleal (Jun 25, 2007)

*feral pigeons homing*

I have banded 3-4 young feral pigeons [ plastic bands ] in the last five years . Trained them out 50 miles , they were slow , 1-3 days ,50 mile seem to be the limit . After 50 miles they might show [-4 weeks ] up with a mate ,but would go on ???
Here the feral [ wild pigeon , rock dove ]tend to be 2-3 oz smaller , less
muscle , and move with the feed supplie . feedlots to elv to feedlots and nest
close to feed supplie .

pooroleal


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

I don't know where in Tenn. you are located, but I know that there is a very active club in Chattanooga. I believe there are also clubs in the Knoxville and Nashville areas. Try contacting Jerry Fitzke at this number:

423-570-7629

He is the race secretary for the Chattanooga club. He should be able to get you in touch with flyers in your area.

Hope this helps,

Dan


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## abisai (Jan 30, 2007)

A ferral isn't going to beget a homer, no more than a boxer is gonna beget a pit bull. They may look similar, but they are two different breeds. If you are talking about the homing instinct . . . yeah ferrals have a homing instinct - to a degree. Just not as good as a homer who has been bred for just that (among other qualities). Can a boxer fight..? Yeah, just don't put him against a pit who has been bred for just that - fighting.

If you are familiar with homers and ferrals, you can visually spot the differance right away.


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## tracecom (Jun 29, 2007)

abisai said:


> If you are familiar with homers and ferrals, you can visually spot the differance right away.



Thanks. Would you tell me the main differences in appearance?


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## abisai (Jan 30, 2007)

Homers varying somewhat in appearance so its difficult to give to give an accurate description. Typically a racing homer is sleek, streamlined, with strong muscular wings and a deep chest. Flight feathers are well formed, broad and resilient. The tail is fairly long, the head broad, the eyes clear and bright. 

The ferral is somewhat smaller in size. The eye wattle (cere - fleshy white membrane around the eyes) and beak wattle (at the top of his beak) is not as defined as that of a homer. The slant from the top of the head to the tip of the beak of a ferral is not as straight as that of a homer.

Put the two side by side and you will pick out the strong athletic homer at once.


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