# "OUR" First Annual One Loft Race



## Flapdoodle

*"OUR" 1st Annual Pigeon-Talk Classic*

*Please check the updated rules... *I am excited to invite you to participate in a one loft race open to PT members only. I emailed a couple other members of the forum and we bounced a few ideas back and forth (I really appreciate the help). I think ultimately it has to come down to one of the quotes from the forum “someone sets up a set of rules and if a person doesn’t like them, then they can keep there birds at home”. I also really like the “one loft, one handler, one group of birds, no one else involved” quote, basically I’m calling all the shots as to how things will be done. If you have advice I’m all ears. If you have a complaint or don’t like how things are done, as this gets going, you have a few options:

1. Don’t enter the race, (leave your birds home)
2. Send me a check for shipping and I will ship your bird back to you
3. Come pick your bird up
4. Talk to someone who cares (I hope that doesn’t sound rude)

In order to make this work I cannot have 40 people calling me at their convenience to talk about their bird. All communication will need to be in the forum, via email, or the blog. I will give weekly updates on the bird’s progress and have the birds ready come the first race.

There was a question of what to do about the money. I have decided the easiest way to handle it is I will front the money until the $50 fee per bird is paid September 1st. If a bird is not in the loft September 1st and you have paid I will refund the $50, after September 1st no refunds. Now 100% free to you, except shipping Updated 3/22

If you are interested, you can add to this post. To register officially and reserve your spot you need to complete the entry form. It is time stamped and the race will be first come first serve. Once we get 40 breeders, I will pull the plug on the registration form. Check out the blog and rules. Let me know if you have any questions… 

Rules

PS Originally, I was not going to handle my own birds, but hey, this is for fun and I am making the rules. My Verbruggen/Janssens will be in the mix!!


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## Timber

*Count me in!*

I signed up!


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## Action

*Combine?*

You must fly in the Camellia City Combine? The club I will be joining flys there.
Jack


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## Flapdoodle

Action said:


> You must fly in the Camellia City Combine? The club I will be joining flys there.
> Jack


Your right I am in the Camellia City Combine in the Auburn Club. Valley Springs? You really are out in the sticks. You have to be the furthest south member in the combine. What club are you looking at joining? Fort Sutter, Mother Lode, Hangtown? Are you going to fly ob/yb next year?

I figure I should also link the original one loft post  in this thread for those that missed it.


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## Action

*Motherload*

I am sure I will be about as far south as you can get. I am trying to get ready for ybs. I have a lot to learn but it should be fun.
Jack


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## Big T

Count me in! Already signed up!


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## Timber

Big T,

Are you gonna send in whites? LOL

Ill be heading up your way in a about two weeks.....are you up for a possible visit?


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## MaryOfExeter

You will see my birds in the loft  I think this is a really good idea (even though you've already heard my thoughts so far, LOL). Not sure how I can help other than give thoughts/suggestions, but if I can another way, let me know!


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## Guest

I'm in, filled out registration form.


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## dvtlegend

One question, It says the birds are only accepted April 1st-14th no exception. Can it be possible to extend it to the 30th. I know things can happen unexpectedly with a week or two of having the birds in the loft. My reason is due to the no replacement rule.


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## Big T

Timber said:


> Big T,
> 
> Are you gonna send in whites? LOL
> 
> Ill be heading up your way in a about two weeks.....are you up for a possible visit?


Come on by, I'll feed you.

Tony


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## Flapdoodle

dvtlegend said:


> One question, It says the birds are only accepted April 1st-14th no exception. Can it be possible to extend it to the 30th. I know things can happen unexpectedly with a week or two of having the birds in the loft. My reason is due to the no replacement rule.


The idea here is to accommodate as many breeders as possible. This is not a typically one loft race. It is for fun. In order for me to make this work I want the birds in a small two week window. It makes it a lot easier not to have to worry about settling birds at different times, worry about quarantine, etc. I hope you can still make that work. If something happens and someone is not going to make that window let’s talk about it Feb and March here in the forum based on the dates below. I’m sure we can make it work.

I have had a few other questions:

(Someone check my math please, it is really late) If at all possible I want birds shipped Monday April 5th (anytime the first two weeks in April). If we count backwards, that bird would be 33 days old if it hatched March 4th, from an egg laid Feb 15th from birds that mated Feb 5th. If you really want to get the date close pair the birds around January 15. They should lay before the end of the month, let them sit on the eggs a few days. On Feb 5th pull the eggs on average they will lay again 10 days later on the 15th, hatch on March 4th, 33 days old when you ship to me. These dates are based on averages nothing in the sport is exact. 

If you plan on sending two birds it would be best to have a group of birds 33 days old to pick from. The most important thing in all this is make sure the birds are weaned and eating and drinking on their own a few days before you ship them.

A few have asked if they can drop off or pick up from the loft. I don't have a problem with that as long as we work it our ahead of time.

If anyone has any other questions keep them coming…


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## SouthTown Racers

Is there any way you could post a picture(s) of the loft??


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## whitesnmore

We just signed up. Good luck to all who enter this, I have a feeling we are going to have some fun with this. Come on PT members lets get this filled up!!


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## Flapdoodle

I put a loft picture in the original thread referenced above. It is not the greatest picture. The loft does need some work. It is currently vacant as my birds are already moved to the other loft or in the individual breeding cages. It currently has nesting boxes which I will remove and add just perches. I will have some time off around the holidays to get this stuff done. I will update the blog with pictures of the progress.

On another note, I turned PM on my account off. I am open to private messages by using my email address below. It is a lot easier for me to manage and reply not having to log in to the forum and worry about keeping messages under a certain size. Feel free to keep the questions coming. If it is private, use the email. If it is more for the group, keep this thread going. Thanks, Tom


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## Roller mike

Why cut the 9 and 10 flights?


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## MaryOfExeter

Usually by the time YB season rolls around, birds are moulting and their 9th and 10th fall out during the season. Those are two important feathers. Soooo, to keep that from happening, if you pull them early, they won't need to moult them because they already shed and grew those 4 feathers.


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## Flapdoodle

I second what Becky said… my understanding (which often is incorrect) is new feathers growing in need a blood supply. The blood supply is in the shaft of the feather as it grows out. All the bird feathers are the same in this respect. The reason for cutting the flight before pulling is to get air in the shaft which will dry out the follicle at the base of the feather and it pulls out easier. Of those that pull flights some cut the flights first then pull a few weeks later some don’t mess with cutting the flights and just pull them.

We have a couple of new to YB racing folks following along. Controlling the moult is a huge advantage in YB racing. I am sure you can search the forum for light system and dark system to get some more info on this. Like every aspect of the sport there are a million different ideas on this. 

My plan for our race and the reason for pulling flights is to keep everything equal. It really handicaps a bird if he is missing one of those feathers during the races. When I get the birds they will go on lights (18 hours). I will cut the 9th and 10th flight in the middle of May. Come June first I will pull the flights, cut back on road training completely, and put them on natural lights (14 hours). The shorter day length will trigger a heavy body moult. I will add a higher protein feed. When most the birds are completed with the body moult (4-5 weeks) the build up and training for the races will begin.


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## pigeonnewb

Wow, that many ppl signed up only.. Is it still a go?


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## warpaint

I have seen some birds go into a double molt if things aren't done properly. Pulling to early and switching to light or dark to late or too soon. I had this happen to me once when I bred early in december. My december bred birds started to molt again during young bird season. During these times, flights can fall due to stress or accessive flying with molted feathers which makes it hard on the wing.


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## ohiogsp

warpaint said:


> I have seen some birds go into a double molt if things aren't done properly. Pulling to early and switching to light or dark to late or too soon. I had this happen to me once when I bred early in december. My december bred birds started to molt again during young bird season. During these times, flights can fall due to stress or accessive flying with molted feathers which makes it hard on the wing.



You have to turn the lights on after the longest day of the year and start extending the light buy a half hour every 2-3 weeks.


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## Flapdoodle

pigeonnewb said:


> Wow, that many ppl signed up only.. Is it still a go?


Chou good question, we didn’t really know what the interest would be in doing this race. This started as just an idea someone had in the forum. I still think it would be a lot of fun. With only 15 breeders we don’t have much of a race. If I can’t get at least 60 committed birds I will probably have to pull the plug. 

I hope your show went well...


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## pigeonnewb

Flapdoodle said:


> Chou good question, we didn’t really know what the interest would be in doing this race. This started as just an idea someone had in the forum. I still think it would be a lot of fun. With only 15 breeders we don’t have much of a race. If I can’t get at least 60 committed birds I will probably have to pull the plug.
> 
> I hope your show went well...


Ok, I thanksfor the update. Show went pretty well, although it seems less and less people every year. Keep me posted. I'll let you know when I'm headed up there, so we can go see Bob.
Chou


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## george simon

*hI FLAPADOODLE Will be training the birds out to TRUCKEE on route 80 and over the mountains?* GEORGE


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## Flapdoodle

george simon said:


> *hI FLAPADOODLE Will be training the birds out to TRUCKEE on route 80 and over the mountains?* GEORGE


It does not look like I will have enough flyers to get this off the ground. We currently have 15 committed breeders. To make this work we are only half way there. A few people indicated they could enter more birds but I don't think it will be enough. 

If we can make it work, most the training will be on route 80. All the race stations are along 80 in Nevada. That was a real pain this summer and fall with the road construction. During the week, training tosses would take twice as long due to lanes being closed for repair. It seems like during the summer there is always some type of construction on 80. This last year it was major repairs, hopefully they have wrapped most of it up.


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## [MN]eXist^_^

Well 60 Birds is a lot if you really think about the members browsing this section of the forum. Hope the big gun guys in here enter also u know who u are! It's just for fun for u guys. No huge amount of pigeons to enter only ur best. Don't b scareed of us munchkins please  ruff ruff growl! Haha


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## SouthTown Racers

[MN]eXist^_^ said:


> Well 60 Birds is a lot if you really think about the members browsing this section of the forum. Hope the big gun guys in here enter also u know who u are! It's just for fun for u guys. No huge amount of pigeons to enter only ur best. Don't b scareed of us munchkins please  ruff ruff growl! Haha


I hope we get there; this will be my first one loft race!


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## MaryOfExeter

I know people who might send in birds, but of course they are not members here.


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## SouthTown Racers

MaryOfExeter said:


> I know people who might send in birds, but of course they are not members here.


Its free, this will help this website and the race. New members welcome!


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## MaryOfExeter

Well then...hmmm. I suppose I could send it to some people then and see if they want to join


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## Action

*Race*

I would to send a bird but I only have 1 pair and not sure I could make it happen. I will check with friends and if I can get a bird I will give it a shot. It is all in fun and bragging rights.
Jack


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## hillfamilyloft

My thoughts here are that the big guns are the only ones that have something to loose and may be reluctant to send birds. If they loose the winner can say My birds beat the big gun's birds. Also being no prize money they have nothing to win. Warren for instance has won the Flamingo Classic. If he wins the PT race it would be expected. I cannot see the front page of his website bragging about the PT race where he won against 60 birds and no prize money. 

I do think the race would be fun and I am contemplating sending a couple of birds. My dellima is that for the $100 I can bond 10 birds in our club futurity and have a chance at $1000 plus an 8 race season and a chance at High points bird. We have 25 fanciers and 400 birds a race. Budget is tight being a teacher. 

Randy


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## SouthTown Racers

hillfamilyloft said:


> My thoughts here are that the big guns are the only ones that have something to loose and may be reluctant to send birds. If they loose the winner can say My birds beat the big gun's birds. Also being no prize money they have nothing to win. Warren for instance has won the Flamingo Classic. If he wins the PT race it would be expected. I cannot see the front page of his website bragging about the PT race where he won against 60 birds and no prize money.
> 
> I do think the race would be fun and I am contemplating sending a couple of birds. My dellima is that for the $100 I can bond 10 birds in our club futurity and have a chance at $1000 plus an 8 race season and a chance at High points bird. We have 25 fanciers and 400 birds a race. Budget is tight being a teacher.
> 
> Randy


The only thing - you cant fault someone for not entering, if you do not enter yourself


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## hillfamilyloft

SouthTown Racers said:


> The only thing - you cant fault someone for not entering, if you do not enter yourself


Nice try of manipulation. Keep in mind I am not finding fault in why they do not want to enter, just thinking of reasons why they might not. I am also reflecting on the reasons why I am ruluctant. The main one being budget and ROI. 

As for the competition, I think it will be fierce. There are some fliers in here with great birds. As for thinking my birds can handle the competition, I do not doubt them. They win races all the time for me, breed winners and battle for high points. I also love the competition. The most fierce when I tell my wife I am going to spend $150 on a race that has no chance of monitary return, just bragging rights. I am sure some of you know what I mean on this one. 

Randy


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## SouthTown Racers

hillfamilyloft said:


> Nice try of manipulation. Keep in mind I am not finding fault in why they do not want to enter, just thinking of reasons why they might not. I am also reflecting on the reasons why I am ruluctant. The main one being budget and ROI.
> 
> As for the competition, I think it will be fierce. There are some fliers in here with great birds. As for thinking my birds can handle the competition, I do not doubt them. They win races all the time for me, breed winners and battle for high points. I also love the competition. The most fierce when I tell my wife I am going to spend $150 on a race that has no chance of monitary return, just bragging rights. I am sure some of you know what I mean on this one.
> 
> Randy


My point was- trying to keep this thing rolling, not take a shot at you. I understand what you are saying. My budget is tight too! I think this race is a good idea because it gets you out of your combine. It may show me exactly what I have. Lastly it will be fun as hell BS'n back and forth on this forum. I jumped on this race because I dont have deep enough pockets for one of the big races. Ive flown one yb season, and loved it! I think this will add one more element to a great hobby! (for me)


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## hillfamilyloft

SouthTown Racers said:


> My point was- trying to keep this thing rolling, not take a shot at you. I understand what you are saying. My budget is tight too! I think this race is a good idea because it gets you out of your combine. It may show me exactly what I have. Lastly it will be fun as hell BS'n back and forth on this forum. I jumped on this race because I dont have deep enough pockets for one of the big races. Ive flown one yb season, and loved it! I think this will add one more element to a great hobby! (for me)


I do agree that this will be a hoot. I thought the dishin' had already started and you were trying to get me worked up so I would join. 

Randy


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## george simon

*Don't Give Up Yet*

*Well it seems that you are in a big hurry.Here it is just Dec 2009 and the race will be late in 2010.Most breeders have not paired up their birds .When will you be excepting birds for the race and what is the cut off date for excepting birds.Can you give us a date when the race will take place? Will it be during the young bird races or after. If you have a two bird limit 15 comitted would be 30 birds I would say that you are half way to your 60 birds its only DEC.I would think that you should be excepting birds by mid or late APRIL I ALSO THINK YOU SHOULD HAVE A STICKY WITH ALL THE INFO FOR THE RACE,THIS WAY ONE CAN GO TO THE STICKY TO GET THE INFORMATION WITHOUT GOING THROUGH A WHOLE LOT OF POSTS TO FIND THE INFORMATION. I have not comitted to this race because I feel that it is a bit early,I have not raced any birds for about 6 years and I will need to go thru the birds that I now have to find the pairs that I will breed the young for this race. These are just some of the thoughts that I have on this race GOOD LUCK DON'T GIVE UP YET* GEORGE


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## george simon

*Do It Your Way.*

*There is one thing that I feel must be said YOU ARE THE HANDLER do what you plan to do just be sure that you treat all the birds the same .If you post all the things that you plan to do, I am sure that you will have many people tell you do it this or that way. I SAY DO IT YOUR WAY * GEORGE


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## Xueoo

How about a $50 perch fee per team of two and $50 entry fee for both birds? That way it’ll give some possible payback for the money spent. This guarantees money to payout, for the guys who like to get paid. Fifty dollars multiplied by 40 breeders gives you $2000 for feed and fuel. That should be enough to break even. Or, even drop that fee down a bit if at all possible, to get breeders thinking about getting in. As with what some of the guys are saying, somebody can save that money and enter a band race, etc, and get a chance to win their money back. But, more than that, most guys who send out birds do so to a few different races, and the money going out adds up. Not counting shipping cost. 

It’s easier to get 40 entries (2 birds) than try to shoot for more.

That’s one thing…

Another thing…money issue aside, concerning the winner...since this is a PT bragging rights sorta thing...I would think recognizing winners in each race would be something the entries can feel good about. Instead of one winner (average speed) from all three races, maybe recognize 1-5th place winners in each race, and, the 1-2-3 average speed winners at the end. Any leftover money can be given to the average speed winner (s), if the $50 entry fee idea is not to be had. 

It's only mental, but, it's always a good feeling to be recognized. Having only one average speed winner at the end takes away from the accomplishments of the winners in each race. Since there’s only 80 birds or less, maybe 1 through 5 to trap in each race get a “diploma”. I, or anybody can make an award using any of the templates available on the computer.

Money race (based on 40 paid entries = $2000):

Race 1 1st - 5th pays $50 each ($250 total)

Race 2 1st - 5th pays $50 each ($250 total)

Race 3 1st - 5th pays $50 each ($250 total)

Average Speed Winners

1st pays $700 

2nd pays $300 

3rd pays $250 

Win money and bragging rights all in one.


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## Big T

george simon said:


> *There is one thing that I feel must be said YOU ARE THE HANDLER do what you plan to do just be sure that you treat all the birds the same .If you post all the things that you plan to do, I am sure that you will have many people tell you do it this or that way. I SAY DO IT YOUR WAY * GEORGE


George is right!!! Do it your way, also you are half way there and it is not even Christmas. 

One question, Bands, which 2010 bands are you accepting, NPA, IF, AU or all?


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## Flapdoodle

*Christmas Day Raffle*

Hi everyone. I hope you all have a great Christmas. We will definitely have the race this year. Being that I am calling the shots I am making the following rule changes:

#1 There will be no $25 buy back, after the race you pay the shipping and I will send the birds back.

#2 On January 15 we will close registration. All remaining spots will be raffled to those who have signed up for two paid birds. These raffled spots will be free. If no one else signs up the 15 that have, will get 4 birds in the race for $100. We will get at least 60 birds in the race. Plus those birds from the Christmas raffle below.

To answer a few of the questions:

*For rules and more info go back to the first post in this thread. *

I will accept any 2010 band.

This race is mainly for bragging rights. As far as prize money I will have an option for an additional entrance fee (100% paid out) for those that want to participate. Only those birds that paid the additional fee will be eligible for the prize. 

*Christmas Day I will raffle off four, free, two bird spots into the race. You pay shipping and that will be the only expense. Open for anyone, especially those who have already signed up. If someone who already signed up wins, they get two free birds and can also send the two paid birds if they want. To be eligible for the raffle you must enter by filling in this form.* *Merry Christmas!!!*


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## Guest

What a fiascle this is becoming! Flapdoodle, I feel for ya! 

You know, I can't afford the big dog races, so figured as a starter, this is great. I am new to all this, I am fortunate enough to have been set up with 2 pair of premium bloodline birds, neither pairs have been bred together before and I want to see how their offspring do. That's it, oh and I love to brag!!! My future plans for racing? I have none, this is a one time thing(at least that's my plan for now). I only want a handful for my personal fliers, will sell babies though if anyone is looking for great racing bloodlines. 

So for $50 a bird, to find out what I have got going on here, that is a heck of a deal for me. I don't care how tight someones budget is, and mine is tight (house payment, car payment, regular bills, extensive vet bills on my old dog, etc...) but I can easily round up $50 per bird. 

Ok, no hefty prize winnings? So? If the one loft race was going to have prize money, I'm sure the entry would be more than what Flapdoodle is asking. Then we would have people on here griping because the entry cost is too high. You want to fly for a prize, I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) on the entry there was an option to get in on a pool 50/30/20 payout.

And who was griping about needing extra time to get their birds paired up??? Get off the stick and get it figured out now instead of waiting til the last minute. A timeline was already posted on when to get your birds paired up for this, seemed there was plenty of time to make arrangements. Like I said, I'm new to all this and even I could figure that out by counting backwards on the calender. 

To George Simon: I am probably about to piss you off and I appologize in advance because sometimes things just don't come out right when you type them, but you know, all the bold printed statements in your post were already answered, had you followed the link in the very first post that started all this! If you went to that link, it clearly stated all the rules, expected arrival dates of YB, tentative race dates, etc... without reading thru all the posts on here.

Some of you are already starting to take the fun out of this and it hasn't even began yet! Remember, this was for FUN. And I think it will be fun, especially on here bragging. I think this is great that the people signed up are from all over the US and are well known for their birds. They are also very knowledgable and if their was a doubt in their minds they wouldn't have entered. I think it will be great for a regular person/ newbie, like myself, to go up against some top fliers. For me, it is a heck of a great way to see how "premium" my bloodline really are. After finding out what I have in my possession, I've been grinning ever since! (yes, that is me bragging)


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## MaryOfExeter

I agree, why can't we all just have fun? 
Although I don't know how long that fun will last...when my birds start kickin' everyone's butts  LOL.


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## Guest

MaryOfExeter said:


> I agree, why can't we all just have fun?
> Although I don't know how long that fun will last...when my birds start kickin' everyone's butts  LOL.


Well, at least I could brag that my birds flew in a race with some top notch fliers, like yours! Now that's something not everyone can say! (they could if they would dig deeper into their beer funds and enter!)


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## Big T

MaryOfExeter said:


> I agree, why can't we all just have fun?
> Although I don't know how long that fun will last...when my birds start kickin' everyone's butts  LOL.


Now you gonna have to kick real high cause I carry my butt on my shoulders. I'm having fun, how bout ya'll?

Merry Christmas,
Tony


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## george simon

*Hi Braden, First thing let tell you I am not pissed off and if you are pissed off because I use bold let me tell you at 79 years old your eyes are not as good as they were at 25 so using bold type is not used to piss anyone off ,but its done to make it easier for me and those that have a eye sight problem. So have fun,I am thinking about entering but I see that there are those that wish to turn this into a gambling event, which I feel will take much of the fun out of the event.In any event take part and enjoy. * GEORGE


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## Guest

Big T said:


> Now you gonna have to kick real high cause I carry my butt on my shoulders. I'm having fun, how bout ya'll?
> 
> Merry Christmas,
> Tony


so is there where the saying "head up your [email protected]@" comes from???


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## Guest

george simon said:


> *Hi Braden, First thing let tell you I am not pissed off and if you are pissed off because I use bold let me tell you at 79 years old your eyes are not as good as they were at 25 so using bold type is not used to piss anyone off ,but its done to make it easier for me and those that have a eye sight problem. So have fun,I am thinking about entering but I see that there are those that wish to turn this into a gambling event, which I feel will take much of the fun out of the event.In any event take part and enjoy. * GEORGE



Hey George, I'm not pissed off for bold, just thought it was a way to emphisise some issues, so we are all good.
I know what you mean about the eyesight, I have some friends that I need to enlarge the email print to size 24 so they can read it!


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## ozzy1963

Ok, I'm in, this is the first race I have entered and I thought it would be fun, and good to start this way.


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## MaryOfExeter

I see two of the people I emailed have joined the race and/or PT. Wooh


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## SouthTown Racers

What time does the raffle begin/end?
Thanks, Matt


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## hillfamilyloft

What ever happended with the raffle? Wondering who gets the birds in.

Randy


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## MaryOfExeter

I hope my name got in there. I can't remember now if I entered for it or not  Two free birds would be nice.


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## bloodlines_365

MaryOfExeter said:


> I hope my name got in there. I can't remember now if I entered for it or not  Two free birds would be nice.


now you said that.....i dont remember etheir to mr. fladapole is their any post the list of names who enter in this bragging rigths game....


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## whitesnmore

Santa is coming late out there to deliver the free race spots!!


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## conditionfreak

I just signed up for this "fun" race. But the sign up form didn't say for how many birds I wanted to enter. I assume that it is supposed to be two birds unless some other number is specified by me. Correct?

This will be the first time for me "timing" when my babies are hatched, so I hope I get this right.

Shipping to California from Ohio will be okay I guess. I have never sent birds in the mail before, but I have received birds many times. But they were always old birds. Any special instructions for shipping 30-35 day old birds? They will of course be eating and drinking on their own before I ship them, and will be shipped to arrive in the specified time period. But other than that, is there anything else?

When I have entered One Loft races, I delivered my birds in person. California is too far though. Is it possible to give the birds the address and let them fly there on their own? 





(just kidding folks).

Thanks.


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## kalapati

conditionfreak said:


> When I have entered One Loft races, I delivered my birds in person. California is too far though. Is it possible to give the birds the address and let them fly there on their own?
> 
> 
> (just kidding folks).
> 
> Thanks.



sure, while they are weaning teach them how to use google maps...lol


i think regarding shipment to out of state, here in CA the new step is we have to call a USPS number which was given to me by their customer service before coming down to the local station. and when you call that number they'll determine if the bird's destination to another state requires vet cert then they'll give you advises on how to proceed. they'll also find out if you are using a USPS certified box for shipment. i just don't know if same thing applies to other states. so the best thing to do is call their cutomer service number at 1-800-ASK-USPS
(1-800-275-8777)


kalapati
San Diego


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## MaryOfExeter

Shipping birds isn't all that bad. I've never shipped any that young, but I have had birds shipped to me from California not much older than 30 days, and all went smoothly. Just be sure they had plenty to eat and drink.

You're just a _little_ bit closer to Cali than me.  I don't think you can get much farther away than me, LOL.


----------



## conditionfreak

Not sure where Rockwell is, but when I was in the miltary back in the 70s, I raced out of Jacksonville, N.C. with the River City Homing Pigeon Club. Got my first diploma there. First race I ever entered. It "hooked" me.

I loved North Carolina. I would probably be living there now, if my wife didn't have "hot flashes" out the yazoo.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Ah. Jacksonville is quite a way from here. We're not far from being in the middle of the state.


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## conditionfreak

Hey everyone. If this idea goes well, and many are interested in doing it again the following year. Put me on the list to handle it in one of the subsequent years (next year or the one after, or whenever). Not this year because Flapddoodle has it well in hand. I can build another loft (I'm getting good at it) this coming summer. I have ten acres, love pigeons, am retired, like to drive, and ain't looking for a financial profit. Only problem I forsee is one that everyone has. Hawks. I will have to have a stern talk with them I think. 

I will send two birds this year and just enjoy the threads afterwards, either bragging a little or coming up with excuses how my birds fly better in the mud than in clear skies. Or how they aren't used to warmer weather, etc.

I have plenty of excuses ready. 

This will be fun.


----------



## conditionfreak

Oh yea. One more thing.

Flapdoodle. If you don't mind, I can have a trophy made and send to the overall winner at my expense, if you don't mind. Just tell me what to have inscribed on it and I will get it done. That will be my contribution to this years race. (besides, since I am most likely going to win anyway, I won't even have to put out any shipping charges for the trophy).


----------



## Brummie

george simon said:


> *Hi Braden, First thing let tell you I am not pissed off and if you are pissed off because I use bold let me tell you at 79 years old your eyes are not as good as they were at 25 so using bold type is not used to piss anyone off ,but its done to make it easier for me and those that have a eye sight problem. So have fun,I am thinking about entering but I see that there are those that wish to turn this into a gambling event, which I feel will take much of the fun out of the event.In any event take part and enjoy. * GEORGE


You have been '79 for the last two years, "mary of Exceter" has been 16 for the last three. Therefore I will be 50 for the next five years.
Picky, picky picky. 
One day you will translate to your grankid's. Yea, I rememember pigeon talk, Good ole day's!


----------



## Big T

conditionfreak said:


> I just signed up for this "fun" race. But the sign up form didn't say for how many birds I wanted to enter. I assume that it is supposed to be two birds unless some other number is specified by me. Correct?
> 
> This will be the first time for me "timing" when my babies are hatched, so I hope I get this right.
> 
> Shipping to California from Ohio will be okay I guess. I have never sent birds in the mail before, but I have received birds many times. But they were always old birds. Any special instructions for shipping 30-35 day old birds? They will of course be eating and drinking on their own before I ship them, and will be shipped to arrive in the specified time period. But other than that, is there anything else?
> 
> When I have entered One Loft races, I delivered my birds in person. California is too far though. Is it possible to give the birds the address and let them fly there on their own?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (just kidding folks).
> 
> Thanks.


Hi big guy,

Here is a link about shipping that was very helpful to me.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f25/shipping-birds-questions-answers-and-links-23515.html

As for very young birds. I take the day the second egg hatches and add 28 days. The Monday after that I ship. To ensure they are eating and drinking on their own. I put food and water in the nest box with them, Mom and Dad a week before. Then on Friday, I put the babies in a big crate and bring them into the house. I put the same food and water dish in the crate with them and watch them to ensure they both eat and drink. If yes they ship. The only time I had a problem was the first time I didn't add food to the nest. I just put them in the crate on Friday. They wouldn't eat and I didn't ship.

Hope this Helps,
Tony


----------



## Big T

conditionfreak said:


> Oh yea. One more thing.
> 
> Flapdoodle. If you don't mind, I can have a trophy made and sent to the overall winner at my expense, if you don't mind. Just tell me what to have *inscribed on it *and I will get it done. That will be my contribution to this years race. (besides, since I am most likely going to win anyway, I won't even have to put out any shipping charges for the trophy).


How about, "2010, Pigeon-Talk Bragger of the Year. all rights reserved.

LOL Tony


----------



## conditionfreak

Some ideas.

"Pigeon-Talk.com Top Bird 2010"

"Pigeon-Talk.com Champion Young Bird 2010"

"1st annual Pigeon-Talk Members Fly Off Champion 2010"

"Young Bird Champion, 1st annual Pigeon-Talk Members Challenge"

"Pigeon-Talk Members One Loft Champion 2010"


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## Flapdoodle

*Congratulations to our raffle winners*

I hope everyone had a great Christmas. Congratulations to our raffle winners:

*braden*, *hillfamilyloft*, *luckyloft*, and *Ace In The Hole *

You each won two free spots into the race. You can send four birds, two free birds and two paid birds, or just send the free birds. It is up to you. 

It felt great not to sit in front of a computer for a few days. Later tonight, I will work on reading the past posts and reply to any unanswered questions. I hope everyone has a Great New Year!!!


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Congrats Braden, Randy, Jeff, and Mark 
Glad to see 2 or 4 other TRC birds in the PT loft besides mine


----------



## Airbaby

Just signed up, hope I am not too late. Figured maybe i can send a few birds off my race team. My Dad didnt sound too thrilled about it but I figured for $100 its worth a shot...I hope he does not mind LOL


----------



## Guest

MaryOfExeter said:


> Congrats Braden, Randy, Jeff, and Mark
> Glad to see 2 or 4 other TRC birds in the PT loft besides mine


Ok, am I having a brain fart or just not fluent in pigeon shorthand... what does TRC mean? *T*rue *R*ace *C*hampions, ha ha!!!

Flapdoodle, WOOHOO Thanks for the raffle winnings!!! Hope my birds can co-operate enough to send 4 birds on time!


----------



## conditionfreak

Ha Ha. I see the "big boys" ain't entering this. I don't blame them though. Smart move.

It would be like a man fighting a woman. If the man wins, well, he was supposed to win. But if he loses. Then he will be soooo embarrassed.

It's the old "everything to lose and nothing to gain" situation.


----------



## Guest

conditionfreak said:


> Ha Ha. I see the "big boys" ain't entering this. I don't blame them though. Smart move.
> 
> It would be *like a man fighting a woman*. If the man wins, well, he was supposed to win. But if he loses. Then he will be soooo embarrassed.
> 
> It's the old "everything to lose and nothing to gain" situation.


LOL especially true since I am a woman!


----------



## luckyloft

Thanks for the raffle!Great idea.... of course because I won that may have something to do with it!Hey maybe this is a sign of things to come.Thanks again!!This may help alittle with the wife as far as cost I would rather go 4 but will have to see how the babies come along.TRC Tarheel Racing Pigeon Club.Salisbury,NC


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## Guest

TRC Tarheel Racing Pigeon Club.Salisbury,NC

Well, that isn't me. I'm nowhere near N.C.


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## MaryOfExeter

Me and Jeff (luckyloft) are members of TRC. So instead of just my two, there will probably be 6 TRC banded birds in there. Doesn't really mean anything, it's just nice to have some good club representation, haha


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Flapdoodle said:


> I hope everyone had a great Christmas. Congratulations to our raffle winners:
> 
> *braden*, *hillfamilyloft*, *luckyloft*, and *Ace In The Hole *
> 
> You each won two free spots into the race. You can send four birds, two free birds and two paid birds, or just send the free birds. It is up to you.
> 
> It felt great not to sit in front of a computer for a few days. Later tonight, I will work on reading the past posts and reply to any unanswered questions. I hope everyone has a Great New Year!!!


Cool I won. I will let Mark, ACE in the Hole, also know. I put his name in because he is short on funds and I wanted him to have representation. If he cannot do the shipping I will raise two birds off his stock that I have and send them for him. I hope this is ok with all of you. I have a few breeders and young birds off his stock. I will make sure I get mine together in time. We have not gotten over freezing in about a week. Right now the birds could care less about having fun. I am also short of funds this year, but if we are short I may be able to send a couple more in. 

Randy

Randy


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

conditionfreak said:


> Ha Ha. I see the "big boys" ain't entering this. I don't blame them though. Smart move.
> 
> It would be like a man fighting a woman. If the man wins, well, he was supposed to win. But if he loses. Then he will be soooo embarrassed.
> 
> It's the old "everything to lose and nothing to gain" situation.



You were shrewd to pick up on that. I think PT competition is a good friendly thing, and has been fun to read and watch. Please don't mistake my comments here, as throwing cold water on such postive things. 

From a Professional's (that's what my accountant says I am) perspective:

Just like in Race horses, or even Show Dogs and Pro Boxers and such. Once you have won some things in some larger events, and are viewed as one of the BIG DOGS, then going forward, if you are going to be seen losing, then at least lose to the BIG BOYS and/or BIG DOGS. There is nothing to be gained in winning a lesser event, and everything to lose in terms of reputation. You want to be seen as moving up in stature, and you want to compete in events that no one really expects you to win, once they do, it's time to move towards more difficult events. Also, like in baseball, when a Pro moves to the minors, it is not viewed as a positive thing. Also, you would not send a $50,000 horse to a $1500 event. You want to send that horse to best race you can get him or her in. Same with pigeons, typically won't send a pigeon to an event which will cost $500 or more to enter, if I didn't think the bird was worth many times that much. Seems a bit counterproductive to send such birds to a race, where the total prize pool is only a single digit multiple of the value of the bird. The math simply does not work. This is why events where the top prize is only a few thousand does not appeal to me. Once one as gotten a taste of five figures prizes, it's hard to go back to "Just for Fun". This is a serious and fun business. But, at the end of the day, winning pigeon races is serious business. Everyone is free to approach this sport or hobby as they see fit. Except for my local sport promotion activities, where I engage in club building competition, in my other racing endeavors, I expect to be both a professional and deadly serious competitor. My days of "Testing" are over, it's time to collect more of your money, in my 2010 winnings ! 

PS

My wife says I am too "Cocky", I say it's simply a very high level of self confidence.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Don't get too Cocky Warren. There are a few fliers in our club that win at a higher level and still find it fun to get beat by the local guys. We have one that won one of the races at the San Diego Classic, another doing well at the Million Dollar Race, and my mentor who brings home money from the big races. You can always enter your birds under your dogs name and still play ball in the sand lot. My Nieces Fiancee is an NBA basketball player, but he still finds time to shoot around with the kids at the local orphanage. Maybe if one of the little guys can beat one of the big guys, it might just give them a little confidence of their own. 

But if you don't think your birds are up for the challenge, I guess you can send them to the big races. Maybe they can give your birds a special up top perch. Ha Ha.

I personally am a bit worried about Becky. She already has a jump on all of us in the breeding loft. 

Randy


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## SmithFamilyLoft

hillfamilyloft said:


> Don't get too Cocky Warren. There are a few fliers in our club that win at a higher level and still find it fun to get beat by the local guys........


Hey, I know it can be "fun" to get beat by a Jr. member, but going forward, what happens in York, stays in York, Pa. I don't have to send birds across state lines to get beat, I can do that in my own back yard. And then at least when that happens, hardly anyone hears about it...except when it gets published in the RPD, like it did the other year !!! ........

If you think I am going to enter an event like this one on PT, and risk a smack down by a girl like Becky !!!! NOOOOOOOO way !!! I would never live that down. Competition is just to tough !! I am not ready for this level of racing just yet !!

I think I will just sit on the sidelines, and watch Becky beat you guys !!!  Is there gonna be a pool so I can lay some money on Becky to Win ?


----------



## conditionfreak

Warren. I totally agree with your outlook on this. As I stated in my previous posting, you would have everything to lose and nothing to gain.

However. (there is always a however, isn't there) 

Even a prostitute makes love just for the fun of it, once in awhile. (don't ask!)


----------



## Flapdoodle

conditionfreak said:


> Warren. I totally agree with your outlook on this. As I stated in my previous posting, you would have everything to lose and nothing to gain.
> 
> However. (there is always a however, isn't there)
> 
> Even a prostitute makes love just for the fun of it, once in awhile. (don't ask!)


I agree with Warren as well, but I won't touch your last comment 

I think the bragging rights trophy is a great idea. I’m working on a few other prize ideas. If anyone else comes up with anything else feel free to post. 

I know there have been questions about timing hatch dates, and sending birds, there is a lot of good information already posted. I would like to add, if you happen to get birds late that are not weaned in time for the two week window, ship them a little late, if you happen to have birds a little early ship them early. As I said in an earlier post I want to accommodate as many breeders as possible but preferably during the first two weeks in April. If someone is not going to make the two week window, let’s talk about it here in the forum. It would be better to have weaned healthy babies that eat on their own and miss the shipping window then sending birds that still need mama.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Maybe since we cannot get Warren to enter the race, maybe we can get him to donate a pair of young birds to the winner. 

I will also be willing to donate a young bird or two off my Ikon/Magic Star bird or my Vic Miller birds. The babies off these bloodlines are going for around $300 each on Ipigeon. I could also donate a young breeding pair off my best birds.

This could help some of the new fliers on the post get some good birds. Many of the top name birds are out of reach for the average guy or gal. 

Randy


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## MaryOfExeter

Sounds like an idea. Now I want to win even more


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## Big T

MaryOfExeter said:


> Sounds like an idea. Now I want to win even more


Thanks alot, I had a chance when Becky thought this would be fun. Now, thanks to you, she got serious!!! So much for the fun.

LOL Tony


----------



## george simon

*Well it looks like I will have to pull some of my breeders out of retirement,to breed a couple of birds for this race.*GEORGE


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Big T said:


> Thanks alot, I had a chance when Becky thought this would be fun. Now, thanks to you, she got serious!!! So much for the fun.
> 
> LOL Tony


 Haha.


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

hillfamilyloft said:


> Maybe since we cannot get Warren to enter the race, maybe we can get him to donate a pair of young birds to the winner.
> 
> I will also be willing to donate a young bird or two off my Ikon/Magic Star bird or my Vic Miller birds. The babies off these bloodlines are going for around $300 each on Ipigeon. I could also donate a young breeding pair off my best birds.
> 
> This could help some of the new fliers on the post get some good birds. Many of the top name birds are out of reach for the average guy or gal.
> 
> Randy


Randy, why dont we get serious ? Take those special Ikon/Magic Star birds and send them to the 2010 Flamingo International Challenge....the winners or the winnings could be contributed to a much bigger project. With $10,000 + in winnings, many good projects could be undertaken.


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## SmithFamilyLoft

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Randy, why dont we get serious ? Take those special Ikon/Magic Star birds and send them to the 2010 Flamingo International Challenge....the winners or the winnings could be contributed to a much bigger project. With $10,000 + in winnings, many good projects could be undertaken.


Tell you what, you come up with the best, el primo YB you have in 2010, and you send it to the Flamingo International Challenge....I will pay the entry fees, you win the races, I win the money !!! I even share with you. See what bird you have that can win the 400 mile race. I got $400 burning a hole in my pocket. You can send your best, and become famous.


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## hillfamilyloft

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Tell you what, you come up with the best, el primo YB you have in 2010, and you send it to the Flamingo International Challenge....I will pay the entry fees, you win the races, I win the money !!! I even share with you. See what bird you have that can win the 400 mile race. I got $400 burning a hole in my pocket. You can send your best, and become famous.


It would not be my Ikon blood. I have not found the just right hen for him yet. The Ikon was a sprinter. I do not have the blood out to 300 plus yet. I would send a sibling to my LL 330 who was 3rd,3rd,4th, and 12th this year from 150-300 miles vs. 300+birds 2nd high points bird. He was out of a cross of my bloodlines. I also had 5 birds off of this bloodline return from the 400 this year. I about have the bloodline where I want it. 330s Sire and his two sibling that I bred from this year all had top 10% finishes. The foundation Grandparents bred equal first Alaska One loft race a small race and have bred first place birds in the club. 

Now I would love to send them to the Flamingo, but dont think it right taking your money. It would be a great race to be in the money. 

Randy


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## hillfamilyloft

I was just thinking big pedigrees might get people more excited about the race. I am just trying to help fill the loft up. I could send two of my big pedigree birds, you send two and the winner can have the birds that are left over. If you or I win then the second or third place winner gets the birds.

I also know of a few other lofts in the race that have some nice Bloodlines that could also donate a bird. Just think a six pack of big name blood goes to the winner. 

I also have a daughter and granddaughter off Virenque the National Borgues winner that I can donate a young bird out of. I could donate a bird off of Buzz who has bred a bond winner, 300 mile winner and grandsired last years 3rd place club futurity bird. He is brother of my GJ futurity winner. I could donate a sibling of theirs. 

we all know you are a generous man and you can donate birds to your local club, the juniors, etc. Help PT members out a bit here. 

Randy


----------



## Xueoo

I have a loft full of birds I can donate...but, nobody would want any of my "no pedigree" muts. So, I won't, hehe.


----------



## whitesnmore

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Tell you what, you come up with the best, el primo YB you have in 2010, and you send it to the Flamingo International Challenge....I will pay the entry fees, you win the races, I win the money !!! I even share with you. See what bird you have that can win the 400 mile race. I got $400 burning a hole in my pocket. You can send your best, and become famous.


If Randy wont take this challenge I will. However, that would only be one specific bird out of the 4 I intend to send. I will even let you pick the bird!! You pay the entry, I get the glory, and 10% of winnings go to my favorite pigeon related charity or toward clocks to start new flyers. A win win situation all the way around.
After our money race finishes locally and in the AU race in the last couple of years we are ready to test them against the "Warren's" of the world. When we win the PT one loft race we will donate our birds to a raffle at the end where the winner can take possession of them. The pedigrees may not be the "Sure Bet" type but they are all performance. 
Ken


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Tell you what, you come up with the best, el primo YB you have in 2010, and you send it to the Flamingo International Challenge....I will pay the entry fees, you win the races, I win the money !!! I even share with you. See what bird you have that can win the 400 mile race. I got $400 burning a hole in my pocket. You can send your best, and become famous.


 I don't remember writing this....I must have let the window open on my computer, and the kid must have written this, just to get me in trouble. 
I might just have a hard enough of a time to come up with the entry fees for a few of my own birds. Just getting some birds through the complete series of races was a big enough challenge in itself. I think the above caption was written with the help of adult beverages, but I could be wrong. ....


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

hillfamilyloft said:


> Maybe since we cannot get Warren to enter the race, maybe we can get him to donate a pair of young birds to the winner.
> 
> I will also be willing to donate a young bird or two off my Ikon/Magic Star bird or my Vic Miller birds. The babies off these bloodlines are going for around $300 each on Ipigeon. I could also donate a young breeding pair off my best birds.
> 
> This could help some of the new fliers on the post get some good birds. Many of the top name birds are out of reach for the average guy or gal.
> 
> Randy


 Getting into the spirit of a Happy New Year....I will consider how I might help support this event. Maybe I should consider sending a bird or two to this event. At the very least, most will then be able to say they beat an SFL banded bird in this event. My only hope, is it does not get lost off the landing board, and does not embarrass me too much. The thought of seeing George pull some breeders out of retirment, and winning this without any competition, might have been the little push I needed.


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

george simon said:


> *Well it looks like I will have to pull some of my breeders out of retirement,to breed a couple of birds for this race.*GEORGE




Now, this could get interesting !


----------



## Guest

I just think it is great to be a "nobody in racing" like myself, a newbie as you will, and have the oppertunity to fly with some of the greats, let alone other regular people from all over the countryside! 

I too would be estatic to "win" a pair of premium birds, just something to add to the "secret weapons" I have breeding out here now, LOL!!!


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Anyone Seen Lovebirds? It would be nice to get Renee in the race also. 

I like the way it is getting thick in here. 

Randy


----------



## conditionfreak

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Getting into the spirit of a Happy New Year....I will consider how I might help support this event. Maybe I should consider sending a bird or two to this event. At the very least, most will then be able to say they beat an SFL banded bird in this event. My only hope, is it does not get lost off the landing board, and does not embarrass me too much. The thought of seeing George pull some breeders out of retirment, and winning this without any competition, might have been the little push I needed.


This WOULD be interesting as well. Except that we have to wait a few hours to see if there are any adult beverages involved in this posting. 

Seriously though. The thought of just having a chance to get lucky against the likes of HFL, SFL, GS, and several other lofts on here, just gets me tingly all over.

Just think of the fun I will have on here for the next year, if I finish in the top five!!!!

Lots of pressure on Flapdoodle for sure. Maybe I should send him a couple of cases of Coors, er...ah...I mean, I'm not trying to bribe him or anything. 

Just trying to be helpful


----------



## conditionfreak

I have an older cock bird that finished in the money in the 2005 Mercedez Classic, and a hen that finished in the money in the 2006 Flamingo classic.

I'm gonna try to time it and get my entries out of them. But with my luck, he won't like her. She is a pretty little thing though. He has a crooked leg, healed up from being broken somewhere along the line. He walks like me. Right now they are married up with others.

I have alternatives of course, but I would like to try those two together.


----------



## Guest

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> I don't remember writing this....I must have let the window open on my computer, and the kid must have written this, just to get me in trouble.
> I might just have a hard enough of a time to come up with the entry fees for a few of my own birds. Just getting some birds through the complete series of races was a big enough challenge in itself. I think the above caption was written with the help of adult beverages, but I could be wrong. ....


this post is to funny lol


----------



## Guest

conditionfreak said:


> I have an older cock bird that finished in the money in the 2005 Mercedez Classic, and a hen that finished in the money in the 2006 Flamingo classic.
> 
> I'm gonna try to time it and get my entries out of them. But with my luck, he won't like her. She is a pretty little thing though. He has a crooked leg, healed up from being broken somewhere along the line. He walks like me. Right now they are married up with others.
> 
> I have alternatives of course, but I would like to try those two together.


conditionfreak your a riot to read too , very much enjoy your long winded(in a good way) posts, they always give me a good chuckle here and there and always keep one in check with reality at the same time  I too have a few ex-Mercedez Classic birds and some NJC combine birds too,no where in the top % but like you they never want to mate to anybody good in the loft  but since I dont race I dont mind none the less  good luck to all that participate I will be following this thread closely all the way thru, even stuff that has nothing to do with the actual race too lol


----------



## bloodlines_365

OMG......this is getting better.......


----------



## Flamingo

Sorry Guys, My money is on the SFL band IF he decides to participate. Win, lose or draw he is still a Champion( And possibly soon to be KING) in my book.


----------



## Big T

Flamingo said:


> Sorry Guys, My money is on the SFL band IF he decides to participate. Win, lose or draw he is still a Champion( And possibly soon to be KING) in my book.


Suck up!!!! Remember, He likes Coors beer. King????? Only when the wife isn't home. All us married guys know that rule.

God Bless,
Tony


----------



## MaryOfExeter

hillfamilyloft said:


> Anyone Seen Lovebirds? It would be nice to get Renee in the race also.
> 
> I like the way it is getting thick in here.
> 
> Randy


I was wondering that as well. Haven't seen her around here lately. I know she isn't racing anymore, but that doesn't mean she can't still participate in one loft races and such


----------



## ohiogsp

hillfamilyloft said:


> I was just thinking big pedigrees might get people more excited about the race. I am just trying to help fill the loft up. I could send two of my big pedigree birds, you send two and the winner can have the birds that are left over. If you or I win then the second or third place winner gets the birds.
> 
> I also know of a few other lofts in the race that have some nice Bloodlines that could also donate a bird. Just think a six pack of big name blood goes to the winner.
> 
> I also have a daughter and granddaughter off Virenque the National Borgues winner that I can donate a young bird out of. I could donate a bird off of Buzz who has bred a bond winner, 300 mile winner and grandsired last years 3rd place club futurity bird. He is brother of my GJ futurity winner. I could donate a sibling of theirs.
> 
> we all know you are a generous man and you can donate birds to your local club, the juniors, etc. Help PT members out a bit here.
> 
> Randy



I could breed some birds off my big name pedigreed birds that should be awelsome on paper but it would be like giving sombody a curse I don't want to hurt anyones racing abilities!!!


----------



## hillfamilyloft

ohiogsp said:


> I could breed some birds off my big name pedigreed birds that should be awelsome on paper but it would be like giving sombody a curse I don't want to hurt anyones racing abilities!!!


Ohiogsp

Don't get me wrong my Ikon bird has raised me winners and I bred off of his daughter last year and she gave me my best young and old bird of 2008. I was just commenting on which birds I would send to a 100-400 race series. Ikon was a sprint bird when you look at the distances he won at. The birds off my grandson are strongest at the 200 range. Our club flies 9 races where 7 of those are under 250. He is a good breeder to have around. At present all my established pairs have either bred me a winner or numerous top 10% birds. I have just finally figured out which distances the offspring can fly. All my new breeders about 10 are off these proven pairs. 

If you look at my webpage what has done best for me at distance is that of my futurity winner. It was actually a one loft series of five races average speed from 100-370 miles that he won. These are what I would send to a 400 or a race like the Flamingo. I had 5 of these birds go to our 400 this year and all made it home. Looking at the PT race my Ikon blood might just be the ticket.

Our 400 is a five bird limit 65 bird $10 a bird winner take all. One crate only. This year it was early December in a snow storm and the birds ran out of daylight. 90% made it back the next day with no day birds. I was 12th and 13th. A fun little race.

Randy


----------



## hillfamilyloft

On another note, I bred my Virenque daughter to Tiger a full Engels bird who was grandsire of my 2nd high points bird in our club out of around 600 birds that flew races. The bird had three top 10s and was 12th at 300 against 300ish birds in each race. This is in a club that has a 25 bird limit, 25 fanciers, with numerous fanciers seasoned with the best birds you can by. www.loslobosrpc.com. 

Tiger was nest-mate to 2nd place 2004 Spirit of Colorado 200 mile race. A half brother won the 150 this year. He has bred winners and grand-sired winners every year for me. 

In other words, I would not offer up junk birds as a prize for the PT folks. there is a chance they may not be winners or produce winners, but I would hope to minimize the chances. 

Randy


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Not to hog the post but something just came to mind about when you introduce birds whether big name or not into your loft. Schearlaekens states when introducing bloodlines into your family always cross them with a proven bird. This way you are only testing the new blood and how it crosses. If the offspring are better keep the new bird. If not get rid of it. This way the only thing in question is the new bird. 

This year I am bringing in some Houben (Clausing) blood. I will cross them in with my proven breeders. An easy one year test. Big pedigree x proven breeder. If the offspring are better than what I have, then put the Houbens together and start a new family to cross in with mine. If not bye bye Houbens. 

Randy


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Tell you what, you come up with the best, el primo YB you have in 2010, and you send it to the Flamingo International Challenge....I will pay the entry fees, you win the races, I win the money !!! I even share with you. See what bird you have that can win the 400 mile race. I got $400 burning a hole in my pocket. You can send your best, and become famous.


Yep....any post after 2AM...I am not repsonsible for !! Now here it is....3:51 AM, I didn't get to bed yet....so this post don't count either...


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## Flapdoodle

*Does persistence count for anything?*

My birds may not be fast but they do not give up. I had a bird come home Thursday from a race in the beginning of October. He must of walked all the way. Poor guy came back to a loft in shambles. I will be using the loft for our race. Currently no north wall, no landing board, and no floor. The loft improvements will be done next weekend. I will update with some photos when it is finished.


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## conditionfreak

If it is no trouble, could you please paint two perches gold, and put in a small screen TV?

My birds are used to being pampered.


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## MaryOfExeter

conditionfreak said:


> If it is no trouble, could you please paint two perches gold, and put in a small screen TV?
> 
> My birds are used to being pampered.


LOL  Anything else? Peanuts served on a silver platter? Haha


----------



## hillfamilyloft

The only thing my birds are asking for here is a heater and a hot tub. It is going to get around 3 degrees tonight. Come August they will need an air conditioner. 

Randy


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## bbcdon

3 Degrees! Man, that is cold!


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## conditionfreak

It was 5 degrees here when I woke up Sunday morning. I have been changing water for my horses, dogs, goat, and pigeons all day long. Had to get the water from the kitchen because it is too cold to get it from the outside faucet, obviously. Had to carry it a long way to the various animals. I am beat.

Can't wait until spring gets here.


----------



## Flamingo

*Two "Flamingo Pink" Perches Please*

You can count us in for 2 birds.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

conditionfreak said:


> It was 5 degrees here when I woke up Sunday morning. I have been changing water for my horses, dogs, goat, and pigeons all day long. Had to get the water from the kitchen because it is too cold to get it from the outside faucet, obviously. Had to carry it a long way to the various animals. I am beat.
> 
> Can't wait until spring gets here.


I have to do the same thing. Tried to turn the water on outside, nothing came out  So I ended up taking a milk jug of hot water back and forth, up and down the hill trying to get everyone's water containers open. I wish someone would have told me it was supposed to get that cold yesterday. Lost two mason jars, and I was lucky to find two more the right size to fit the bottoms.


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## 1981

If you guys think that was cold, it is even colder here. Its about minus 5 to 7. My water heater couldn't produce enough heat to keep my waterers from freezing up. Burrr......it's that cold


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

Flamingo said:


> You can count us in for 2 birds.


 I think Flapdoodle needs you to fill out the form under his avatar.


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## M Kurps

Haven't raced in a long time,don't know if my birds could make it back from 100 miles,curiousity got the better of me (lol). I will try to breed 2 for the due date,but can't make any promises. Kurps


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## whitesnmore

Flamingo said:


> You can count us in for 2 birds.


Nice!! Cant wait to fly against you and with you in Fla!! Now if we could just get Warren to send some of those chickens of his


----------



## bloodlines_365

whitesnmore said:


> Nice!! Cant wait to fly against you and with you in Fla!! Now if we could just get Warren to send some of those chickens of his


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

whitesnmore said:


> Nice!! Cant wait to fly against you and with you in Fla!! Now if we could just get Warren to send some of those chickens of his



Nope...not me....Competition is too fierce....I would be afraid to show my face..........now the wife....that might be a different story !


----------



## Flamingo

*Smith Family Loft ?*



whitesnmore said:


> Nice!! Cant wait to fly against you and with you in Fla!! Now if we could just get Warren to send some of those chickens of his


You have to say please and do it late at night. That will better your chances.


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## Crazy Pete

Really was not going to do one loft races till 2011, but what the hey I'm in.
Dave


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## MaryOfExeter

Crazy Pete said:


> Really was not going to do one loft races till 2011, but what the hey I'm in.
> Dave


Make sure you fill out the entry form if you haven't already 


And I noticed Warren...er...Karen, is in the race now!


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## rackerman

* I really don't understand how it works,Hope I can do the race next year. *


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Flap do those of us who won the raffle need to register our birds? I do not see them on the list. 

Thanks 

Randy


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## MaryOfExeter

rackerman said:


> * I really don't understand how it works,Hope I can do the race next year. *


What don't you understand?


----------



## Flapdoodle

hillfamilyloft said:


> Flap do those of us who won the raffle need to register our birds? I do not see them on the list.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Randy


Thanks for the reminder Randy, I will add your names to the list.


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## rackerman

I have to pay $50.00 per bird and it must be a yb. What other cost is it to me? I never raced and want to understand how this works! Can someone explain in detail how this works? Thanks in advance, sorry I don't understand, guess I'm a little slow...lol


----------



## whitesnmore

Rackerman, Pay 50.00 per bird up to 2 birds. Put them in the postal box pay the postage and ship them in. It is that easy and no other costs to you. If you want your bird back after the race is over you have to pay shipping costs to get it back to you. Hope you can join.
Ken


----------



## rackerman

whitesnmore said:


> Rackerman, Pay 50.00 per bird up to 2 birds. Put them in the postal box pay the postage and ship them in. It is that easy and no other costs to you. If you want your bird back after the race is over you have to pay shipping costs to get it back to you. Hope you can join.
> Ken


Whitesnmore, SO these young birds are trained and raced there, then I get them back after, if I want them? This is the confusing part for me, "I don't train them"? I don't mean to sound stupid, just don't understand. I appreciate you answering my questions.


----------



## rackerman

Ok, I understand now, you send him a young bird per his instuctions, he trains it along with all the others he gets in, one loft one trainer one winning bird.


----------



## conditionfreak

Rackerman. You have to send the bird/s at approximately 30 days old. Maybe a couple of days younger and maybe a couple of days older. You also have to try and get them at this age and delivered to Flapdoodle, at the time period specified by (it's like a two week period in March). There are special live bird boxes that have to be used in order for the post office to accept them, and the shipping costs will be somewhere in the neighborhood of 35 to 45 dollars for one box, and there are boxes that can hold from one to four birds. Just to enter the race is 50 dollars per bird. This is NOT a money race, but is a "bragging rights" race. It is a cheap way to try out your breeder birds offspring against some heavy competition. But it is all about the bragging rights here on Pigeon Talk. There will be a trophy awarded to the overall winner though.

All birds sent to Flapdoodle will be trained by him to race to his loft. After the race/s, all birds can be sent back to the original owners (you) if we (you) pay for the shipping. You would have to send the money to Flapdoodle first, in order for him to send your bird/s back to you. But when you get the bird/s back, remember it will be trained to Flapdoodles loft and can not be trained to fly to your loft. You will have to keep it as a prisoner that you could breed from, but not race.

That is basically how all One Loft races work. Except some auction off your bird afterwards and some charge you a fee PLUS shipping, to get your bird back. Also figure in the cost of the shiipping box in both directions. I am not sure if this is going to be a series of two or three races, or just one race. That was probably posted here somewhere but I don't remember right now (getting old in my old age).


----------



## rackerman

conditionfreak, Thanks alot!! I do understand now. I have a little over a week to decide now. I want to race, but not sure if I will have a young one by then? This sure sounds like fun and hope I can do it, I need this week to decide, like I said, not sure if I will have a young one by then. I will see what I can do, if not, there is next year. Thanks for your notice.......


----------



## whitesnmore

rackerman said:


> conditionfreak, Thanks alot!! I do understand now. I have a little over a week to decide now. I want to race, but not sure if I will have a young one by then? This sure sounds like fun and hope I can do it, I need this week to decide, like I said, not sure if I will have a young one by then. I will see what I can do, if not, there is next year. Thanks for your notice.......


Rackerman, You are not too far from me as I am just around the horn (lake Mi.) from you. We have young hatching already so if you get your lights on in your loft you should be able to get them "busy" in time to get a couple of dandies to send out. Good Luck i know they dont always co-operate.
Ken


----------



## rackerman

whitesnmore said:


> Rackerman, You are not too far from me as I am just around the horn (lake Mi.) from you. We have young hatching already so if you get your lights on in your loft you should be able to get them "busy" in time to get a couple of dandies to send out. Good Luck i know they dont always co-operate.
> Ken


Thanks Ken! How long do the lights need to be on?


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## MaryOfExeter

I would just keep the lights on until they lay eggs and the babies are out, or at least that's what I do.


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## whitesnmore

Total of 16-18 hours is what I keep them on. Usually they go off at 11PM when I go to bed and come on at 6AM when I get up.


----------



## [MN]eXist^_^

Ok so.... What kind of birds should I send short,middle,long? Looks like a tough course so middle to long? Let's do this!


----------



## Xueoo

When in doubt...always send birds that can race hard. Don't think short, middle, long...

You never know what kind of weather they'll endure during a race. Especially in the cold winter months.


----------



## whitesnmore

[MN]eXist^_^ said:


> Ok so.... What kind of birds should I send short,middle,long? Looks like a tough course so middle to long? Let's do this!


I am sending a houben/vanloon cross and a Janssen/720 cross.


----------



## ozzy1963

*Race*

My daughter and I are so excited about the race, we can't wait. The hard part is trying to figure out which birds to breed for this race...lol....I think I'm addicted!!


----------



## hillfamilyloft

ozzy1963 said:


> My daughter and I are so excited about the race, we can't wait. The hard part is trying to figure out which birds to breed for this race...lol....I think I'm addicted!!


I am going to send one off of my mountain bird Maverick. He flew five races up and over Grand Mesa 12K in Colorado in consecutive weeks. This race course I think is up and over the mountains. I think that thin air blood might help. Also my 200 to 300 mile blood.

It is always hard when you are sending only a few birds. For average speed you also want your tough birds. The winner of the race has to finish all three in good time. Send the tough ones. 

Good luck


----------



## [MN]eXist^_^

Sounds like a plan thx guys/gals


----------



## SouthTown Racers

I just looked at who all is in so far. This is turning out to be quite the little one loft race!!!

Flapdoodle, How is that loft coming along?


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## MaryOfExeter

Yes it is! So far, 5 people from my combine including me


----------



## hillfamilyloft

By may calculations, anything you put together about now should have eggs in 10 days to a couple of weeks, young by end of Feb and young about 5 weeks old by the 5th of April. For second rounders you should have little fuzzies in the nests, so they will lay in about 10 days or so. I will finish pairing my birds Saturday, so I should have some just in time to send if all goes well. 

I waited another week, because last week to finish because we had a foot of snow and temps in the single digits. The birds are getting active. Our Longitude is a bit lower so the birds get active a bit sooner than you northern folk. Temps should start warming up soon also. 

Which birds to send is a hard choice. I know some guys will send their best and be hard to beat. Other big names will send left overs. Looks to be a good race. 

Randy


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## hillfamilyloft

That would be my calculations not "May" calculations. That would be much too late. 

Randy


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## SmithFamilyLoft

MaryOfExeter said:


> .....
> 
> 
> And I noticed Warren...er...Karen, is in the race now!


Yep.....right now, it looks like a tippler/homer cross she is working on ! 

I attempted to explain the possible disadvantages to such a pairing, but you know, I learned quite some time ago...that the wife is never wrong !! 

I am sure they will pretty though....


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## Airbaby

would like to see this at the top a few more times for members who may not of seen this yet...am looking forward to this


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## SouthTown Racers

I agree! Im sending a cross between.......................some great birds!!!


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## Airbaby

well i was thinking I would be sending something out of my racers since we put them togather alot earlier last year to let them raise one before racing...but then we remembered the headaches of trying to get birds into shape that are on the nest and decided not too....so now my options are down 2 just 2 pair of breeders who just laid...if i did the math right the babies from these 2 pair would be the right age to ship by April 5th.


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## hillfamilyloft

I have 15 eggs that were laid this week and expect about that many more. They should be ready just in time. That will put them right at about 5 weeks for shipping to the race on April 5. 

Randy


----------



## Flapdoodle

Hey all, it has been a busy month, two long family trips. One trip up to Oregon and the other down to Southern California. 

The weather has not really helped in giving me a free Saturday to get the loft upgrades complete. I have installed the flat screen TV and gold perches for the Conditionfreak birds. I have also gone through five different shades of pink for the Flamingo birds. I can't find the right color.

I hope everyone’s birds paired up ok. I have five pairs on eggs laid Friday-Sunday. These will be my second round.

I hope it is working out for everyone else.


----------



## Big T

Flapdoodle said:


> Hey all, it has been a busy month, two long family trips. One trip up to Oregon and the other down to Southern California.
> 
> The weather has not really helped in giving me a free Saturday to get the loft upgrades complete. I have installed the flat screen TV and gold perches for the Conditionfreak birds. I have also gone through five different shades of pink for the Flamingo birds. I can't find the right color.
> 
> I hope everyone’s birds paired up ok. I have five pairs on eggs laid Friday-Sunday. These will be my second round.
> 
> I hope it is working out for everyone else.


Yo, my birds need a spittoon and some chewbacca. When you hit the road for training they like to go muddin in a 4X4 truck, keep the dawgs at home.

God Bless,
Tony


----------



## Flapdoodle

Tony, do you think they would mind muddin in a little suzuki samari? It is the closest thing I have to a 4x4 truck. I have jumped the thing 23 feet in the field next to the house. 

If any of you have any other special requests as far as training conveyance, perch color, or anything else let me know. I want the birds to all feel at home. Hope all is well...


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Mine will probably enjoy tagging along with Tony's


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## whitesnmore

Were you still going to try to fill the left over spots that no one signed up for? I thought I read earlier in the post the extra slots were to be offered to anyone entered already (of course at the additional $$).


----------



## Action

*Filled up?*

Is it all filled up yet? This is my first year and would like to try it but I only have 6 pairs. I have 1 week old eggs and new eggs so my timming is close.
Thanks Jack


----------



## Big T

Action said:


> Is it all filled up yet? This is my first year and would like to try it but I only have 6 pairs. I have 1 week old eggs and new eggs so my timming is close.
> Thanks Jack


Looking at his breeders list he still has a slot or two open. PM him and ask. If your birds just laid their eggs a week ago then you should be on time. Wants us to ship the birds to him first two weeks of April.

Good Luck,
Tony


----------



## Flapdoodle

*Last Call....*

I everybody, originally the plan was to close registration and raffle remaining spots. A few have asked if there is still space in the loft. I will leave registration open until this Sunday Feb 28th. At that point I will take a head count and see how everyone is doing as far as birds hatch date and nest position. We can then have a feel for where we are as far as the tentative total birds in the loft. If we will have room, we can then raffle off remaining slots. 

Currently we have 30 registered breeders plus 4 raffle entrees. 68 total birds, we would have 12 single bird slots to raffle. The hope is to include as many breeders as possible. 

I will send out an email to all registered breeders on Feb 28th. Talk to you all later…


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## Crazy Pete

Do the birds have to be vet checked to send them to you?
Dave


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## Flapdoodle

I do not need them to be vet checked. I have heard that the post office was going to require a vet check at one time but I do not think that ever happened. I have sent birds out this year and the post office did not require it. I did have to make an appointment to ship birds. My post office also only ships birds on Mondays. It might make sense to check with your local post office.


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## Crazy Pete

Great... I wasn't thinking I'm getting birds in from Gilroy Ca. this week and they never said any thing about it.
Dave


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## bloodlines_365

naaaa...you dont have too but you must quarantine new birds that come in, even in a short period of time just to make sure they dont have any infection....... and must be vaccinited with PMV...


----------



## Big T

bloodlines_365 said:


> naaaa...you dont have too but you must quarantine new birds that come in, even in a short period of time just to make sure they dont have any infection....... and must be vaccinited with PMV...


From my understanding Flapdoodle will vaccine all birds as they come into his loft, Just to be sure.

Tony


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## M Kurps

Pair on eggs a little while should be ready,(fingers crossed). I signed up,hope all goes well.
Kurps


----------



## hillfamilyloft

I have about a dozen hatching out this weekend. Just need to decide which ones will go to the race. A few are from proven pairs and the rest from new pairings. I will have to look the distances over again and look at the terrain. 

Randy


----------



## Guest

*updates?*

Anyone heard from Flapdoodle? I never got an email, like he said was to be sent out end on Feb.


----------



## Happy

It seems like some of you are going to try & ship birds early. Think we should read the Rules. No birds before April 1, 2010 to be sent to this race...... Happy


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Mine are banded and getting fat. They will be ready the first week of April. 

Randy


----------



## Crazy Pete

What will the weather be like ? I would just like to know weather to send speed birds or to send a tough long distance bird to the race.
Dave


----------



## Flapdoodle

Hi Everyone, I Just sent an email to all those registered for the race with a link to a online form. It basically asks how many birds you plan to send and what date you think they will be shipped. If you did not get the email please send me a quick note to my address below. I have 11 babies that hatched three days apart. They will be ready the second week in April. I am still not sure which birds I plan to enter, Hope everyone else is doing well.


----------



## Flapdoodle

Crazy Pete said:


> What will the weather be like ? I would just like to know weather to send speed birds or to send a tough long distance bird to the race.
> Dave


The weather man does not predict more then ten days out  

It can be pretty tuff. Last fall in yb we had really hot temps and some races had gusty wind going over the pass. Then again it could be great and a speed bird would be better. That is part of the challenge... I know I am no help.


----------



## Crazy Pete

Over the pass as in a mountain cool, the only thing my birds have to fly over is the corn. We have a few hills but you can stand on top of the truck and see over them.
Dave


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

Crazy Pete said:


> What will the weather be like ? I would just like to know weather to send speed birds or to send a tough long distance bird to the race.
> Dave


 It's gonna be one of those fast, blow home races....send the fastest things you got !!!.........


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

Flapdoodle said:


> Hi Everyone, I Just sent an email to all those registered for the race with a link to a online form. It basically asks how many birds you plan to send and what date you think they will be shipped. If you did not get the email please send me a quick note to my address below. I have 11 babies that hatched three days apart. They will be ready the second week in April. I am still not sure which birds I plan to enter, Hope everyone else is doing well.


 I couldn't open mine.....


----------



## bbcdon

For those of you who are not familiar with the terrain, the race stations in Nevada should be approximately 4000 to 5000 feet in elevation. They will climb to a little over 7000 feet to clear Donner Pass, and then it is all down hill from there. I am not sure of the exact elevation of where Flapdoodle's loft is, but I would guess it to be any where between 1500 to 3000 feet. Hope this helps.


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

bbcdon said:


> For those of you who are not familiar with the terrain, the race stations in Nevada should be approximately 4000 to 5000 feet in elevation. They will climb to a little over 7000 feet to clear Donner Pass, and then it is all down hill from there. I am not sure of the exact elevation of where Flapdoodle's loft is, but I would guess it to be any where between 1500 to 3000 feet. Hope this helps.


Thanks for the info, that let's me know if I should send...I mean the wife should send....high elevation or low elevation pigeons........ Since our pigeons must navigate the Blue Ridge Mountains, seems like this course should be pretty much a cake walk, since it's all down hill.


----------



## conditionfreak

Is there an email being sent to participants, requesting numbers of birds and shipping dates? I got one and want to make sure it is legit before I fill out the form and hit "submit".

Too many scams and such around. Thanks.


----------



## ace in the hole

conditionfreak said:


> Is there an email being sent to participants, requesting numbers of birds and shipping dates? I got one and want to make sure it is legit before I fill out the form and hit "submit".
> 
> Too many scams and such around. Thanks.


Yes, on the last page he posted that he had sent the emails.

I did not get an email. I won the drawing and will be sending the two birds. 

Ace


----------



## SouthTown Racers

I have not recieved an email. I sent an email requesting info 2 wks ago and have not heard back. I think Im going to pull out of this one and send my birds down the MO/ILL Combine race course. I hope it happens, but I think Ill wait for the 2nd annual pt race!


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

SouthTown Racers said:


> I have not recieved an email. I sent an email requesting info 2 wks ago and have not heard back. I think Im going to pull out of this one and send my birds down the MO/ILL Combine race course. I hope it happens, but I think Ill wait for the 2nd annual pt race!


 OK, I understand, you want to have your hand held ?


----------



## Flapdoodle

Hi all, sorry I missed your message Matt. Hope things work out with your birds... 

I sent another email tonight, If you didn't get the last email or the one I sent tonight please pm me and I will clue you in.... here is the just on the email: 

_"Thinking out loud or openly here. We have 38 birds if those that have asked send an additional two we could get about 50 total. I still want to make this happen and want to put it to a vote. 

*Option 1: We can have our one loft race as outlined in the forum with the 50+ birds. Letting everyone that wants to send an additional pair of birds. *

*Option 2: I take the one loft birds and fly them in the club and combine young bird series rather then fly my own birds I have raised. We have a new flyer that joined the club. I would give him all the yb I have raised except for two or three that will fly faster then anything you all send. The way my club works is we ship an A and B race, 15 birds in each race. We also send a third release as trainers not clocked through the club. We fly eight races. I would work out some points system. 

1st bird back 5 points
2nd bird back 4 points…. 

We would give points to the first five birds in each race (A, B, and the trainers) each week. At the end eight of the eight weeks the bird with the highest points is our winner. We could keep a result sheet online that everyone can check. 

Regardless of how the birds do in the club and combine we would have a first place bird at each race and post the results in the forum each week. *
I will go ahead and do what the majority want to do. I think it would be a lot of fun either way. We can still talk trash and get video updates and what not in the forum with both options. If we choose the second option I will flip the bill. I would have the same cost if I was flying your birds or my own in the yb series. Your only expense would be shipping the birds to me and paying for shipping them back or I can keep and fly again as yearlings. 

Please respond to the email simply with I vote for option A or option B. 

Look forward to see how everyone wants to proceed… Tom"_


----------



## SouthTown Racers

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> OK, I understand, you want to have your hand held ?


Im not sure I understand?


----------



## Flapdoodle

*emailed questions and random comments from breeders*

I figure I would post these so everyone can see... So far I have only had yes votes for option two and I am leaning that direction. Here are the emailed questions (my reply is in red) Keep the questions or comments coming!!: 

*"Since you didn't get all the birds you wanted I vote for plan B Except you may as well send all your culls to the new guy. The way I see it I've already won. lol Its really your call I do what ever you say or what every body votes for."* *We will see whose birds you call culls after the races*

*Due to the issue that I don't have any extra young-uns, I am good for Plan B, but have a few questions first. 

1) When you put the birds in your club to race for the season, who's name are the birds going to be registered in, yours or mine? So let's say, our bird comes in 3rd, will the results listed at your club (not on PT forum) read Brasher bird # placement, etc... or is it going to read my bird # placement, etc... The club and combine results would all say Brasher then the band number and place the bird came in. I do not see any way around that. 
2) You ship A & B races + non-clocked race, which one will our birds be racing in, or will they be alternated? How I work this out for my team (I would do the same in this case). Lets say I have fifty YB I am flying. For the first race, I would take the first 30 birds back from training tosses (with other lofts) the week before the race. Those are the birds that would go in to the A and B race, the rest would go as the trainers (Which we would still award points for the forum but not on the club/combine results sheet). For all other races, I take the first 10 birds back from the previous weeks race (A, B, and the trainers, 30 total). 
3) What is the race schedule & station locations thay will be flying from? Date the birds will be returned, and name of race club where they will be racing out of? We usually start the third Saturday in August and end the first Saturday in October, they would fly out of the Auburn Club, Camellia City Combine. Race Stations with approximant mileage: 

Fernley 120
Lovelock 190
Imlay 205
Winnemucca 250
Valmy 270
Carlin 300
Battle Mtn 260
Elko 325

As far as the date returned goes. If someone in the group has a bird that does well at the combine level a few races or wants a bird back at some point I will pull it from future races and we can make arrangements to get the bird back to the breeder (at the breeders expense). Other then that it would be after the series is over (sometimes they postpone a race due to weather). Hope that helps if you have any other questions let me know…*

*"I count at least 33 Lofts in the Who's Flying Blog.. Doesn't it mean that we are all sending 2 birds a pice? That would be 66 Birds as a starter??? Maybe you meant when we sent our names in it was just one bird? I was sure it was Two?" *

*You are right it was two birds. We had some folks that did not get birds paired up and have pulled out of the race. A few people have indicated they are only sending one bird. This second time around we only had 38 total birds, 20 breeders confirm they are sending birds. There are a few of the breeders I never heard back from. I am willing and able to do what ever the group wants.*


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

I'm excited to see how this all turns out! I missed my chance this year but would for sure enter next years race if all goes well.


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## Big T

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> I'm excited to see how this all turns out! I missed my chance this year but would for sure enter next years race if all goes well.


Got two squabs that will be weaned the first of April, if so there may be room. Doesn't hurt to ask if you have two birds that will be ready to ship.

Tony


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## Crazy Pete

The 2 or 3 that can fly fly faster than any thing we send. Now if you can kid so can I.
Dave


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## SouthTown Racers

I guess my questions are these; 1. what about your birds (are you breeding a yb team for yourself this year?)
2. How many lofts are in your combine?
3. If birds are flown in your combine, do the visiting band#s have to be registered through your combine and mine?
4. If vs AU?
5. I guess I dont understand why you want to hold my hand


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## SouthTown Racers

If some of Qs have already been explained above, Im sorry, i dont have much time to read evreything. Work has picked up (big time), I have a two year old, and just found out Im going to be a daddyx2


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## M Kurps

Congratulations Southtown.


I'm out of this race, nothing to send in the time frame. There is always next year. Good Luck to everyone in the upcoming seasons.
Kurps


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## SmithFamilyLoft

SouthTown Racers said:


> If some of Qs have already been explained above, Im sorry, i dont have much time to read evreything. Work has picked up (big time), I have a two year old, and just found out Im going to be a daddyx2


OK, I get it, you have time to make babies, but not enough time to read all the posts and things related to this race ? Well, at least we know what you do seem to find time for.....


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## SmithFamilyLoft

Flapdoodle said:


> ........
> *You are right it was two birds. We had some folks that did not get birds paired up and have pulled out of the race. A few people have indicated they are only sending one bird. This second time around we only had 38 total birds, 20 breeders confirm they are sending birds. There are a few of the breeders I never heard back from. I am willing and able to do what ever the group wants.*


This is why having people send in their perch fees and capital prize money in advance is a good policy. People will make all kinds of promises and then have all kinds of excuses as to why they don't have birds to send. The perches were reserved for them, and now for whatever reason or excuse, they are empty. 

I will have to go back and re-read the rules myself. If the money is not all collected up front, when the birds are shipped, then there will be another round of people who I am sure all had good intentions, but just can't seem to come up with the dough. What originally may have been a 66 bird field, by the time a 300 mile race comes around, will most likely be fewer then 20 birds. If currently on paper, there are only 38 birds promised, something less then 38 birds will actually arrive I would imagine. Maybe fewer then 15 birds for the 300 mile event is even more realistic. 

If nothing else, at least people will see some of the difficulties in setting up and organizing a One Loft event. What may seem a fairly straightforward and simple event, turns out to be a bit more difficult then most people will imagine.


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## SmithFamilyLoft

OK, I read the rules again, apparently you ship the birds and then sometime before Sept 1st, you collect $50. Like the orginal post said, if you don't like the rules then stay home. But, attempting to collect $50 after a bird has been consuming up expenses and then perhaps get lost, or the owner just decides he doesn't have the $50.... IMHO, you should have the little $50 check inside the shipping box when the birds arrive, with no refunds for the dummies that get lost off the landing board. Certainly would save a whole bunch of book keeping, but this is not my event.


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## SouthTown Racers

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> OK, I get it, you have time to make babies, but not enough time to read all the posts and things related to this race ? Well, at least we know what you do seem to find time for.....


You and I may butt heads, but this is the second time you have brought my family into the equation! You tramp around this website like you are some kind of pigeon racing "GOD". If that were the case, I would think there would be some kind of results page on your website. As far as I can tell you have won your fair share of club/combine races(you made sure your wife held the trophies up for you, so all the world could see) and you got lucky one year at the flamingo race. I think you are a big talker and bully people around on this website and trick people into thinking you are "Top Dog". Again you show your arrogance by telling all the good people you are too good for this PT one loft race. You have to enter birds under your wifes name. Looks to me like you are too chicken s$%t to put your own name on your birds! Im done. This is the last time I waste dealing with you publicly. If you want to pm me or call me, we can go on. 314 972 3123 is my phone # so the ball is in your court big guy!


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## bbcdon

I agree with Warren. Especially being a new first time one loft race, I think that one would have to be very careful about the minimum number of entries, race and perch fees, feed and medical costs, and training expenses to make it a viable venture. The idea of having people on this forum having this race is a great idea, but the logistics of carrying it out are something else. I have no idea of the work involved, but I would think that it would be a huge task to complete, especially for one person. I would definitely require that whatever fees are imposed would be in the shipping box with the birds. I forgot exactly how many birds are allowed in the race, but I would be very careful about how much to charge in fees, as to make sure the handler does not get eaten up in expenses. I truly hope it works out for you Flapdoodle.


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## SmithFamilyLoft

*Competition Cracking Under The Pressure ?*



SouthTown Racers said:


> You and I may butt heads, but this is the second time you have brought my family into the equation! You tramp around this website like you are some kind of pigeon racing "GOD". If that were the case, I would think there would be some kind of results page on your website. As far as I can tell you have won your fair share of club/combine races(you made sure your wife held the trophies up for you, so all the world could see) and you got lucky one year at the flamingo race. I think you are a big talker and bully people around on this website and trick people into thinking you are "Top Dog". Again you show your arrogance by telling all the good people you are too good for this PT one loft race. You have to enter birds under your wifes name. Looks to me like you are too chicken s$%t to put your own name on your birds! Im done. This is the last time I waste dealing with you publicly. If you want to pm me or call me, we can go on. 314 972 3123 is my phone # so the ball is in your court big guy!




If I came across "rude" then that is one thing, I am sorry if that is the case. 

But me...a pigeon god ? I don't think so......And I'm sorry, I don't ever recall butting heads with you, must have been in a late night post or part of your imagination. Don't really remember you contributing all that much. Perhaps I said something in one of my posts that you felt was directed at you and upset you ? Maybe because you said you were sending birds, but then decided to pull out ? Will have to go back and read a bunch of posts. 

But since you brought my family and my wife's idea to support this race up....You must first be able to beat my wife's pretty little pigeons before you ever hope to compete against mine. As it is, I suspect my wife's pigeons would tear the wings off your birds, but that remains to be seen, since you apparently already chickened out in a previous post....not sure why if you have already dropped out, why you take offense to my two cents anyway, competition got to tough for you ? 

As far as giving you a call, you must first beat the girls in our family, then I might consider giving you a shot at speaking with me, or competing againest my birds, but first you have to earn that right, so save up them nickles, as I won't provide that opportunity for free.  

But, IMHO, your post seems a bit more aggrogant then mine, and sure seems like someone who is attempting to cyber bully, what with your references to god and all. I do confess,* I am a big talker*, but then again I am willing to put my money where *my BIG mouth *is. When you are ready to do the same, then let me know. Already have a race right here, all you have to do is summon up the courage to ship your birds. And please don't allow your perception of my arrogance, or your fear of my wife's pretty little pigeons, scare you away. Just let me know, I will send a check along to cover are own little friendly wager. That way the only results page you will have to concern yourself with, is this particular race.


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## A_Smith

Here is how this race started.
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f14/one-loft-race-idea-41258.html



ME from thread listed above POST #4 said:


> I like the idea. I too have thought of this. BUT was wondering just how many racers are on this site. I know there are a few of us. The perch donation could be a reason for a new loft If the PT team was not to large (not a large loft needed and my combine ships 30/race) this braggin rights race would work.
> I have limited space NOW but a new YB loft would be nice.
> ?????? I wonder if my wife wants a loft ????? She has mentioned it ???? Then there could be a flock comming home weekly.
> got me thinkin' If a small team, a small say 5x8 would be big enuff. and easy for wife to say yes to. ALSO weekly posts and photos could be made here as how the PT race team is progressing. AND my wife's first race season results.
> I like the idea. If someone here does do a PT braggin rights race, Lets try to get a roll call of who is intrested in hosting and or flying. :


I was going to build a small loft and have my wife fly.. The perch donation would have paid for there feed. No prize to win or argue about. Just a fun race season for PT members and getting a new flyer in my club. Her team would not of been from my stock so she could never say I kept the good ones. LOL My wife will still be watching the birds come home this year but they will still be my birds to my loft. Good luck to all who send birds and also to the handler. I will be watching this post to see how well the race goes.  And before you ask. I will not be sending birds to the PT OLR. And yes I did edit my orginal post a little. I made it a little bit more understandable. Please remember raising pigeons was our hobby, before racing pigeons was our sport. Keep it fun.


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## conditionfreak

Shipping date is closing fast. Has a decision been made yet as to how this is going to be held?

If you remember, I offered to provide a trophy to the winner of this one loft race. But if we do option #2, I guess it would have to be a trophy not for a race, but for points earned. If I understood it correctly.

P.S. Hey Warren. Unless you were joking (or drinking), you said that you have "people" that take care of your birds. Is this true? You must have money. (not that there is anything wrong with that)  But it does diminish my initial thoughts about you and your birds. I thought you were like me, in that you loved doing all of the things needed to be done to and with our birds. I get a kick out of taking care of my birds. But then again. I like mowing my yard. So maybe I'm weird.

My brother in law told me recently that he pays someone to mow his tiny yard (as compared to mine) and I made him mad at me for responding something like "you're kidding right? You pay someone to mow an eighth of an acre of grass?"

He didn't take it so well when I was laughing and saying this. But, he has money also. So maybe, that is why I enjoy doing what I can not afford to pay others to do. But I must say, I would feel silly paying someone to mow my yard. I even fix my own cars and what not. I am not close to being low income, but paying someone to walk my dog, feed my pigeons, mow my grass or change my tire, would just be something I would not do.


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## bloodlines_365

ohh god....... what the heck happen to this one you guys start arguing already we havent even push the start botton yet,hope this thing pull true...

one quicky question.... since where flying in fladapole club and if a bird win a diploma whose name is going to be used the breeder or the handler cause most likely it will happen one of this PT birds will win a diploma.....


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## Happy

Flapdoodle, I am in which ever you decide. Sorry that you have to listen to the Bull Cow Folks that don't understand the problem, & don't keep there word. Seems to be a way of life with the new Cell Phone World type Pigeon Racing. You have done a lot of work for this, & I appreciate this...... My vote is what ever you have to do to make this PT Race Fly for the 1st time, I'm in!!!.......... Come on PT Folks, lets RACE & HAVE FUN.......... 
Happy


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## SmithFamilyLoft

conditionfreak said:


> Shipping date is closing fast. Has a decision been made yet as to how this is going to be held?
> 
> If you remember, I offered to provide a trophy to the winner of this one loft race. But if we do option #2, I guess it would have to be a trophy not for a race, but for points earned. If I understood it correctly.
> 
> P.S. Hey Warren. Unless you were joking (or drinking), you said that you have "people" that take care of your birds. Is this true? You must have money. (not that there is anything wrong with that)  But it does diminish my initial thoughts about you and your birds. I thought you were like me, in that you loved doing all of the things needed to be done to and with our birds. I get a kick out of taking care of my birds. But then again. I like mowing my yard. * So maybe I'm weird.*
> 
> My brother in law told me recently that he pays someone to mow his tiny yard (as compared to mine) and I made him mad at me for responding something like "you're kidding right? You pay someone to mow an eighth of an acre of grass?"
> 
> He didn't take it so well when I was laughing and saying this. But, he has money also. So maybe, that is why I enjoy doing what I can not afford to pay others to do. But I must say, I would feel silly paying someone to mow my yard. I even fix my own cars and what not. I am not close to being low income, but paying someone to walk my dog, feed my pigeons, mow my grass or change my tire, would just be something I would not do.


OK, so I will agree with you....you are weird.  

No, I do not scrape my own pigeon lofts, nor mow my own grass. It's not because I have so much money that those chores seem beneath me, it's that I am physically handicapped. When it comes to the oil changing part, I am mentally challenged, in that I don't really know how. 

I know people who can do all kinds of mechanical things for themselves, like electrical, plumbing, carpentry, etc. etc. I am sure they enjoy a sense of independence. But then, in this day of specialization, I don't try to be my own physician, dentist or attorney either.....like when my wife needed surgery on her heart, or I needed a crown on a tooth, I didn't attempt to do those procedures either. 

There are very few things that I can do exceedingly well......so my strategy has been to focus on those things I can do well and subcontract out the other stuff I'm not so good at to others. It's not for everybody, but it works for me. Now, I guess that makes me weird ! 

Maybe by the time this event is over, Flapdoodle will be asking himself, why he got himself into such a thing......


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## whitesnmore

Flap, I wouldn't even ask anyone. You are going to get as many different answers as there are breeders. This is a race run by you do what you feel is right. If there are those that dont like it they can sit out. As the chairman of oiur combine auction race this year, I couldn't even attempt to please the 130 members 100%. I quit trying and just made a fair race.
Ken


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## SmithFamilyLoft

whitesnmore said:


> Flap, I wouldn't even ask anyone. You are going to get as many different answers as there are breeders. This is a race run by you do what you feel is right. If there are those that dont like it they can sit out. As the chairman of oiur combine auction race this year, I couldn't even attempt to please the 130 members 100%. I quit trying and just made a fair race.
> Ken


I 2nd that.....


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## Pigeon0446

whitesnmore said:


> Flap, I wouldn't even ask anyone. You are going to get as many different answers as there are breeders. This is a race run by you do what you feel is right. If there are those that dont like it they can sit out. As the chairman of oiur combine auction race this year, I couldn't even attempt to please the 130 members 100%. I quit trying and just made a fair race.
> Ken


I was thinking along the same lines your never gonna please everybody so do what's best for you. Just make rules and a format and stick to them and if it works it works.


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## conditionfreak

Hey, that's all cool Warren. So you can't handle scrapping pigeon poop. I understand fully. 

If you did scrap you own pigeon poop and capped your own teeth, and got the two mixed up. It could get real ugly. 

Just funning. But on a serious note, let me ask you some straight forward questions. You don't shy away from the tough subjects and neither do I. So let's have a discussion about this.

When you win a race, do YOU get the credit for it? Or does the handler get the credit for it? Or does the TEAM get the credit for it?

I mean. Let's say that Brad Pitt owned racing pigoens. Had someone take care of them. That someone/s did the raising, training, feeding, and general caring for the birds. Did most everything except purchase the birds, decide what should be bred with what and provides all of the capital to do all of this. Then one of his birds wins a big race. Do the congratulations go to Brad Pitt or to his handler? Does the trophy or diploma have Brad Pitts name on it, or the handlers? (See how this all ties in with a posting above about this coming PT race and whos name goes on the diplomas, if any?)

I believe I know the answer, and that it is the same answer that applies to horse racing. But I would like your thoughts on it.

P.S. I am in NO WAY comparing you to Brad Pitt.


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## gazguildford

lol you guys get incredibly serious over what i have read to be a "fun race" for rich and poor alike to enjoy and possibly win a few quid.
im new to pigeons so dont really understand the concept but if things get this b*tchy everytime you race im glad i am from the uk.
and this is in no way a dig but you guys make it sound like boxing "you beat these girlie pigeons and you get a shot at mine" if yours are that good id take great pleasure in caneing someone and gloating but thats just me like i said i dont know what the concept is really or the cost of the pigeons you would put in the race (would they be worth risking for the winnings?) however i have enjoyed reading this thread so far
good luck to everyone that takes part
gaz


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## g0ldenb0y55

I hope this race goes through....I want to see who wins!


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## conditionfreak

No need to wait. I'm gonna win. If I knew what a quid was, I'd bet one or two.


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## Flapdoodle

*Read the updated rules...*

I have birds being shipped starting next week... 

*I think this will still be a lot of fun.* If you have issues with the new format I totally understand, I really think with the number of birds we have this is the best way to proceed. This is how we are going to proceed this year. If we can make it a regular one loft race next year great.

*New Rules:* 

*100% free no cost to you* other then shipping the birds to my loft and if you want them back after the race you pay to ship them back.

I will take in birds March 29th to April 24th. The birds will fly as my YB team. The way my club works is we ship an A and B race, 15 birds in each race. We also send a third release as trainers not clocked through the club. We fly eight races. 

1st bird back 5 points
2nd bird back 4 points
3rd bird back 3 points
4th bird back 2 points
5th bird back 1 point

We would give points to the first five birds in each race (A, B, and the trainers) each week. At the end eight of the eight weeks the bird with the highest points is our winner. We could keep a result sheet online that everyone can check. 

Regardless of how the birds do in the club and combine we would have a first place bird at each race and post the results in the forum each week. 

The birds are my YB team. The club and combine results would all say Brasher then the band number and place the bird came in. All Diplomas would be returned with the birds to the breeder after the races.

As far as deciding what bird are shipped in the races: 

For the first race, I would take the first 30 birds back from training tosses (with other lofts) the week before the race. Those are the birds that would go in to the A and B race, the rest would go as the trainers (Which we would still award points for the forum but not on the club/combine results sheet). 

For all other races, I take the first 10 birds back from the previous weeks race (A, B, and the trainers, 30 total). 

What about young birds I have raised off my breeders? I will enter two birds in the mix for our race listed with everyone elses birds. The forum birds on the team will have precedence in the A and B race. If we get to a point where there is less then thirty forum birds to send to a race. I will them fill the race team with my own birds. The bulk of my birds will go to a new flyer in my club to fly out. 

The race series starts the last Saturday in August. We will race every weekend for eight weeks. Race Stations with approximant mileage: 

Fernley 120
Lovelock 190
Imlay 205
Winnemucca 250
Valmy 270
Carlin 300
Battle Mtn 260
Elko 325

As far as the date returned goes. If someone in the group has a bird that does well at the combine level a few races or wants a bird back at some point I will pull it from future races and we can make arrangements to get the bird back to the breeder (at the breeders expense). Other then that it would be after the series is over (sometimes they postpone a race due to weather).


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## gazguildford

conditionfreak said:


> No need to wait. I'm gonna win. If I knew what a quid was, I'd bet one or two.


lol its like your dollar ..... only worth more


----------



## Crazy Pete

That doesn't take much, our dollar isn't worth much. lol
Dave


----------



## conditionfreak

Sounds good to me, flapdoodle. A small point to ponder is that there will be (or usually is), more birds in the A race versus the B or trainers. In my combine there are three times more birds in the A race than the B race, and only a few trainers.

But a small point.

Although putting my birds in with the trainers everytime might give me an advantage. I don't want it. 


(psss, just kidding. put mine in with the trainers but don't let anyone know our little secret)


----------



## Flapdoodle

SouthTown Racers said:


> I guess my questions are these;
> 1. what about your birds (are you breeding a yb team for yourself this year?)see my last post
> 2. How many lofts are in your combine? last year we started yb with 38 lofts about 550 birds in each race
> 3. If birds are flown in your combine, do the visiting band#s have to be registered through your combine and mine? the birds will be allocated to my race team
> 4. If vs AU? AU, I can fly YB’s with an IF band, I will need to possibly register them before hand. My club race secretary says no problem at all. I have a note into the combine secretary for a confirmation. (Possibly a $1.00 fee per non-AU band, I will pay for, I believe that fee only applies to OB)
> 5. I guess I dont understand why you want to hold my hand That comment is not from me… [/COLOR]


For everyone else:

When you get ready to ship birds, email me at the address below a few days before with the band numbers and the date you plan to ship, I will reply with my shipping information.


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## MaryOfExeter

Wait, wait, wait. So the race is free now (other than shipping to and from)?


----------



## Flapdoodle

conditionfreak said:


> Sounds good to me, flapdoodle. A small point to ponder is that there will be (or usually is), more birds in the A race versus the B or trainers. In my combine there are three times more birds in the A race than the B race, and only a few trainers.
> 
> But a small point.
> 
> Although putting my birds in with the trainers everytime might give me an advantage. I don't want it.
> 
> 
> (psss, just kidding. put mine in with the trainers but don't let anyone know our little secret)


sorry mine will always be the trainers 

the cream will rise to the top, the first birds back will make the A & B race team the following week... and as you elude to be at a slight disadvantage. I sometimes do have trainers come in a few on the drop, but never the whole group... my point system might be a little flawed but it will work. I am sure after my bird wins everyone will cry foul...

our A and B races are pretty even in size, toward the end of the season if we end up with less then thirty I will split the forum birds evenly between the A and B race.


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## Flapdoodle

MaryOfExeter said:


> Wait, wait, wait. So the race is free now (other than shipping to and from)?


the economy sucks, I don’t want someone to not ship birds because of the $100. I will flip the bill this time… with the new format, my expenses are basically the same as they would be if I was flying all my own birds. That goes the same for my time. Most of the birds I raised I will pass to a new flyer in my club. Of course, if someone wants to throw in a little for feed and what not I would not turn it down… It might be a little more fun to sit on your money and maybe in August before we start the races have a pool that pays out to the top few point leaders… I would be taking the first and second spot anyway...


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## conditionfreak

Money in pigeon racing, ruins things.

Don't get me wrong. I play poker three nights a week for money (won $160 last Saturday), but in non professional sports (and in some cases there also), it tends to end up in shanigans being involved. Or at least insinuated or claimed.

Let's keep this as fun as possible. I do not need to win any money to enjoy this to the max. All I need is for my birds to not embarrass me.

P.S. If my birds survive the first two races, I will send something to help with the feed costs. PayPal is best, but whatever works for you is fine.

If they don't. Then they suck, you suck, I suck, and I ain't ponying up anything. Because I will be in a bad mood for a week.


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## g0ldenb0y55

conditionfreak said:


> Money in pigeon racing, ruins things.
> 
> Don't get me wrong. I play poker three nights a week for money (won $160 last Saturday), but in non professional sports (and in some cases there also), it tends to end up in shanigans being involved. Or at least insinuated or claimed.
> 
> Let's keep this as fun as possible. I do not need to win any money to enjoy this to the max. All I need is for my birds to not embarrass me.
> 
> P.S. If my birds survive the first two races, I will send something to help with the feed costs. PayPal is best, but whatever works for you is fine.
> 
> If they don't. Then they suck, you suck, I suck, and I ain't ponying up anything. Because I will be in a bad mood for a week.


LOL...I like how you roll bro!


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## SmithFamilyLoft

gazguildford said:


> lol you guys get incredibly serious over what i have read to be a "fun race" for rich and poor alike to enjoy and possibly win a few quid.
> im new to pigeons so dont really understand the concept but if things get this b*tchy everytime you race im glad i am from the uk.
> and this is in no way a dig but you guys make it sound like boxing "you beat these girlie pigeons and you get a shot at mine" if yours are that good id take great pleasure in caneing someone and gloating but thats just me like i said i dont know what the concept is really or the cost of the pigeons you would put in the race (would they be worth risking for the winnings?) however i have enjoyed reading this thread so far
> good luck to everyone that takes part
> gaz


Are you kidding me ?! I suspect that there really is no such thing as a "Friendly" race in any combine in the USA, anymore then there is really a "Friendly" game in any other sport. If it is so friendly, that one does not really care, one way or the other, who wins or who loses, then what is the point in playing in the first place ?! Based on some fans I have seen on TV after a match over in the UK, I would say that winning in sports can get pretty serious in the UK as well. 

Personally, I never met a winner who liked to lose. I have met quite a few losers who were OK with being a loser. Takes one heck of a lot less effort to be a loser, I can tell you that from experience. I have lost more events then I have won. 

And no, the winnings in this race, I suspect will not even cover the shipment of the birds back home. But then that is true in the majority of the local races here also. Thanks for reading these posts, I hope it proves to be entertaining. I certainly would like to wager a good caneing with some of the blokes in this race, but then again this is a "Friendly" event....


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

conditionfreak said:


> Hey, that's all cool Warren. So you can't handle scrapping pigeon poop. I understand fully.
> 
> If you did scrap you own pigeon poop and capped your own teeth, and got the two mixed up. It could get real ugly.
> 
> Just funning. But on a serious note, let me ask you some straight forward questions. You don't shy away from the tough subjects and neither do I. So let's have a discussion about this.
> 
> *When you win a race, do YOU get the credit for it? Or does the handler get the credit for it? Or does the TEAM get the credit for it?*I mean. Let's say that Brad Pitt owned racing pigoens. Had someone take care of them. That someone/s did the raising, training, feeding, and general caring for the birds. Did most everything except purchase the birds, decide what should be bred with what and provides all of the capital to do all of this. Then one of his birds wins a big race. Do the congratulations go to Brad Pitt or to his handler? Does the trophy or diploma have Brad Pitts name on it, or the handlers? (See how this all ties in with a posting above about this coming PT race and whos name goes on the diplomas, if any?)
> 
> I believe I know the answer, and that it is the same answer that applies to horse racing. But I would like your thoughts on it.
> 
> P.S. I am in NO WAY comparing you to Brad Pitt.


Getting a bit off topic....

Replace the name Brad Pitt above with say the name Mike Ganus. When the bird wins, what name and logos would be displayed on the front cover of the Racing Pigeon Digest ? 

Now, if it were me....I would give the credit to the rightful winner....and that would be neither the owner, the handler, nor the team. *It would be the bird ! *


----------



## bbcdon

Ditto's Warren!


----------



## conditionfreak

hmmm....Ganus buys some great birds from someone in Belgium. Then breds the babies and sells them. Then the person who bought them, wins a big race basically counting on the work of the "handler", and the cover of the magazine is shared by the bird, the Belgium name, the Ganus name, and the flyers name. But not the handler. The handler might get a token mention somewhere in the interior of the magazine. Maybe.

Yea. I got it. Thanks. (just funnin around)


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

conditionfreak said:


> Money in pigeon racing, ruins things.
> 
> Don't get me wrong. I play poker three nights a week for money (won $160 last Saturday), but in non professional sports (and in some cases there also), it tends to end up in shanigans being involved. Or at least insinuated or claimed.
> 
> Let's keep this as fun as possible. I do not need to win any money to enjoy this to the max. All I need is for my birds to not embarrass me.
> 
> P.S. If my birds survive the first two races, I will send something to help with the feed costs. PayPal is best, but whatever works for you is fine.
> 
> If they don't. Then they suck, you suck, I suck, and I ain't ponying up anything. Because I will be in a bad mood for a week.


I have heard this a bunch of times, I don't know if it is true or not. I mean, where would poker be, if it were not for that $1,000,000 Championship they hold in Vegas ? Where would foot ball be without the Super Bowl and Big Time Million + dollar players. If the game was all for fun like on the Jr. High School level, would it really be the same thing ? Would horse racing be the same if the winner of the Kentucky Derby got only a diploma ? Same with every other "sport", from golf to tennis. Has money "ruined" every other professional sport ? Millions of viewers and fans would seem to suggest that is not the case. I'm not so sure that pigeon racing is some kind of special exception. If I offered a $5000 1st place prize to the winner of this series of events, would that ruin the "fun" for everyone ? What if I made an offer such as that, and then when someone won the 1st place position, I say...you know, I don't want to ruin the fun for you...so just forget the moeny....just enjoy the win for the sake of the win !!  I will tell you from personal experience, I have won for fun, and I have won for money. And when you get a few extra grand in your hand, is does not detract from the fun !!


----------



## First To Hatch

I don't have any birds or anything yet, but whatever you win doesn't it just go back into your birds? Its not like your getting any extra pocket money right? But my mentor did win 18,000$ in a race so I'm guessing you do get extra money if you place 1st-6th.


----------



## conditionfreak

Yea. That's why I said "non professional sports".

I would also say that the NCAA tournament (college basketball and football) are bigger than most other things, except for maybe the Super Bowl, World Series and the Kentucky Derby.

But the NCAA tournaments may be bigger than all of that.

But you made your point well. I do play poker a lot and from time to time, I find shenanigans going on. Friends not betting when they have a lock and there is just the two of them in the hand. Partners working the table. "Splashing" the pot with less chips than was required. etc. etc. I have seen similar things in pigeon racing. Back in the old days, putting the counter marks on the birds prior to a race, and having a pigeons amputated leg palmed in their hand and then putting the un countermarked bid in the crate. Or liberators letting birds out fifty miles closer or a half hour earlier. etc. etc.

There are cheaters in every endeavor. Be it sports, business, marriage, the lottery, or the church. It is a fact of life.

Even when there is no money involved, people will cheat. Just for the fake glory.


----------



## conditionfreak

First To Hatch said:


> I don't have any birds or anything yet, but whatever you win doesn't it just go back into your birds? Its not like your getting any extra pocket money right? But my mentor did win 18,000$ in a race so I'm guessing you do get extra money if you place 1st-6th.


You can put as much or as little into your birds, as you want. If I lucked out and won one million dollars in a race. I guarantee you that no where near that amout of money would be put back into pigeons. That would be a disservice to my family.


----------



## bbcdon

The desire to compete and win is part of the human spirit!


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

conditionfreak said:


> Yea. That's why I said "non professional sports".
> 
> I would also say that the NCAA tournament (college basketball and football) are bigger than most other things, except for maybe the Super Bowl, World Series and the Kentucky Derby.
> 
> But the NCAA tournaments may be bigger than all of that.
> 
> But you made your point well. I do play poker a lot and from time to time, I find shenanigans going on. Friends not betting when they have a lock and there is just the two of them in the hand. Partners working the table. "Splashing" the pot with less chips than was required. etc. etc. I have seen similar things in pigeon racing. Back in the old days, putting the counter marks on the birds prior to a race, and having a pigeons amputated leg palmed in their hand and then putting the un countermarked bid in the crate. Or liberators letting birds out fifty miles closer or a half hour earlier. etc. etc.
> 
> There are cheaters in every endeavor. Be it sports, business, marriage, the lottery, or the church. It is a fact of life.
> 
> Even when there is no money involved, people will cheat. Just for the fake glory.


You are right about cheaters...they don't need money as an excuse to cheat. My GrandMa would cheat at cards, and we never played for money. Of course every time we would lose to her, we would claim it was due to cheating. Much like what happens in many Combines when a flier starts to win "Too Much"....why he must be cheating !!

And Pigeon Racing is no longer considered a non-professional sport. Once your income exceeds your expenses, even in pigeon racing events, the IRS will consider you a "Professional". Ask your CPA about the details.


----------



## conditionfreak

Then consider me a professional poker player.


----------



## bloodlines_365

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> You are right about cheaters...they don't need money as an excuse to cheat. My GrandMa would cheat at cards, and we never played for money. Of course every time we would lose to her, we would claim it was due to cheating. Much like what happens in many Combines when a flier starts to win "Too Much"....why he must be cheating !!
> And Pigeon Racing is no longer considered a non-professional sport. Once your income exceeds your expenses, even in pigeon racing events, the IRS will consider you a "Professional". Ask your CPA about the details.


now i wonder why my freinds fellow flyer won 9 first,second,thrid,fourt...etc. place out of eleven races.....and the year after that he couldnt even clock a bird......go figured


----------



## gazguildford

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Are you kidding me ?! I suspect that there really is no such thing as a "Friendly" race in any combine in the USA, anymore then there is really a "Friendly" game in any other sport. If it is so friendly, that one does not really care, one way or the other, who wins or who loses, then what is the point in playing in the first place ?! Based on some fans I have seen on TV after a match over in the UK, I would say that winning in sports can get pretty serious in the UK as well.
> 
> Personally, I never met a winner who liked to lose. I have met quite a few losers who were OK with being a loser. Takes one heck of a lot less effort to be a loser, I can tell you that from experience. I have lost more events then I have won.
> 
> And no, the winnings in this race, I suspect will not even cover the shipment of the birds back home. But then that is true in the majority of the local races here also. Thanks for reading these posts, I hope it proves to be entertaining. I certainly would like to wager a good caneing with some of the blokes in this race, but then again this is a "Friendly" event....



your absoloutly right i have been involved in lets say my fair share of riots after the football (soccer) and before for that matter.
but on the other hand i have never gone looking for trouble i have just stood my ground. im just one of those (what must be rare) who enjoy the day and the people i meet or meet up with along the way win or loose i enjoy the day ofcourse everybody loves to be a winner but noone likes a sulker.
i have never raced pigeons and infact dont even own any yet lol but when i do it might change? 
people should enjoy it no matter what after all at the end of the day you will still have mates to join down the boozer and to have some friendly banter.
i dont know if you guys are classed as pro's or ametures but serious business this pigeon racing


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

gazguildford said:


> your absoloutly right i have been involved in lets say my fair share of riots after the football (soccer) and before for that matter.
> but on the other hand i have never gone looking for trouble i have just stood my ground. im just one of those (what must be rare) who enjoy the day and the people i meet or meet up with along the way win or loose i enjoy the day ofcourse everybody loves to be a winner but noone likes a sulker.
> i have never raced pigeons and infact dont even own any yet lol but when i do it might change?
> people should enjoy it no matter what after all at the end of the day you will still have mates to join down the boozer and to have some friendly banter.
> i dont know if you guys are classed as pro's or ametures but serious business this pigeon racing


Now mate, I think you are catching on ! Riots over there are all part of the game are they not ? I never go looking fer trouble either, but sometimes he finds me at the boozer, enjoying a couple pints of ale with me friends. And then some bloke gets up in me face and tries to tell me my birds are no good. Me and my mates might get to thinking they is fighting words ! 

And the banter, of course you have to learn to talk like your birds will be winning 1st place for the rest of the season, even if it's more likely they will be out for a night or two. The trick is really be pulling your friends leg, and being just a bit happy for him, should he go and win one. A congradulations is always in order, and everyone knows it's his turn to buy the ale for the boys in the club.

You should track down your local pigeon club and find out what kind of blokes are running the place. We have a great bunch of guys in our club, and we all enjoy each other's company.* Flapdoodle* on here didn't mention it yet, but it is customary for the handler of a One Loft Race to throw a party/picnic or BBQ type function at his house on the day of the last big race.


----------



## conditionfreak

This is now more of a futurity race than a one loft race. Right?


----------



## pattersonk2002

*No*



gazguildford said:


> lol its like your dollar ..... only worth more


 Actually I think its two 2 one our favor USA


----------



## rackerman

pattersonk2002 said:


> Actually I think its two 2 one our favor USA


now, 3 to 1 our favor USA............lol


----------



## c.hert

Yea I went to one of those one loft races and the person threw a hell of a party from the night before it started at the Holiday Inn--people flying long distance to watch their birds come in and everyone was watching their birds come in and betting the others were no good and I had a few swigs myself and started talking about how my loft was going to be better than theirs when I build it and they all laughed and we really had a good old time together---and those people are crazy and I had a lot of fun and I also lost about 50 dollars on assorted carrying on's but the food was good--beer-mixed-icetea drinks etc etc ribs: chicken : salads etc etc---had a real good time and the people who put it on did a real good job---not many tea tottlers --but there are some----and good family people they are and hard workers as well--you will have fun--and I sure did....c.hert


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

conditionfreak said:


> This is now more of a futurity race than a one loft race. Right?


 I think it is some sort of a hybrid. A fancier is accepting YB's from around the country, and then he will compete with them in his club and combine for the season. At the end of the season, maybe the "best" bird was lost in the 5th race...or something like that, but one will be able to evaluate their birds compared to the rest of the birds remaining in the loft. Maybe some end up being combine winners, maybe the whole lot of them end up on the bottom of the race sheet in terms of average speed or bird of the year. Unless I misread things along the way. It seems to have changed from a $50 per bird, three race average speed One Loft Event, to something a bit different. May have to go back to start of thread and read the whole thing over again.

After you read the rules on six different events, they start to run together in your head. Generally speaking, one may have the best of intentions, but once the rules of the game have been established, making changes after the fact, is usually not well received by everyone.


----------



## Flapdoodle

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> I think it is some sort of a hybrid. A fancier is accepting YB's from around the country, and then he will compete with them in his club and combine for the season. At the end of the season, maybe the "best" bird was lost in the 5th race...or something like that, but one will be able to evaluate their birds compared to the rest of the birds remaining in the loft. Maybe some end up being combine winners, maybe the whole lot of them end up on the bottom of the race sheet in terms of average speed or bird of the year. Unless I misread things along the way. It seems to have changed from a $50 per bird, three race average speed One Loft Event, to something a bit different. May have to go back to start of thread and read the whole thing over again.
> 
> After you read the rules on six different events, they start to run together in your head. Generally speaking, one may have the best of intentions, but once the rules of the game have been established, making changes after the fact, is usually not well received by everyone.


Warren is right... some kind of hybrid. I don't care what you call it. I see it as a way to #1 Have some fun on the forum #2 See how your birds do against Warren's wife's birds.

I also agree with Warren, making changes after the fact is not well received. The only thing worse then making changes after the fact, is making changes after the loft is full of your birds. 

I am sure we could have a one loft race with 35 + or - birds going to the first race but that did not really make sense to me. It does not look like we are going to get the birds. I changed the rules... Warren is right we should all go back and re-read the thread. Actually, I will save you sifting through all the BS in this thread and just read my first post. I made the decision before the birds came to the loft to change formats. If you do not like the way this has come about keep your birds at home.

I still think this could be a lot of fun. I will have a good young bird team, hopefully made up of PT birds. Post updates, videos, and results here in the forum, and we can all talk trash...

Warren also brought up a BBQ at a typically one-loft event. I do not smoke, drink, or care for much of the lewd comments that take place in and around shipping night, one-loft events, and what not. I really enjoy the birds so I tolerate all the other garbage that comes with racing them. That being said I would not tolerate that stuff around my kids or my home. If any of you happen to be in town on shipping night and want to help basket birds or ship at the club come on over. We usually have some type of dinner at the clubhouse. If you happen to be around on race day, we can catch some great under six soccer games in town and then be home in time to BBQ and watch for the birds (just keep the language, beer, and smokes at home). I don’t really think that Warren’s intention is to actually have us hold a BBQ for a free bragging rights race, It seems to me like he is more or less just taking a shot at me or our little race… but hey I guess that is part of the fun. 

Send your birds and lets see what happens…


----------



## gazguildford

Flapdoodle said:


> #2 See how your birds do against Warren's wife's birds.


 haha @ that


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

Flapdoodle said:


> Warren is right... some kind of hybrid......
> ... * I don’t really think that Warren’s intention is to actually have us hold a BBQ for a free bragging rights race*, It seems to me like he is more or less just taking a shot at me or our little race… but hey I guess that is part of the fun.
> 
> Send your birds and lets see what happens…


 I was not being serious. If you were getting a $125 per bird perch fee, and then say $300 per bird capital prize fee, of which you would get a cut, and if you had a couple of hundred or more birds in the race, then perhaps a cook out with hot dogs and such would be in order. If it was one of those $1000 a bird deals, then maybe something a little more elaborate, perhaps having it catered. Not sure if these events should be G rated Disney World type events, or something R rated more like Vegas. Great thing about America, is we have a lot of choices, and when it comes to One Loft Events, you can choose what types of events you like. I have been to Disneyland events and I have been to Casino type events. 

If you were an hour drive away or so, it might be fun to put some faces to the PT names. But, I am pretty sure the drive would be a little too far. And if some folks had issues with the $50 fee, then commercial airplanes or very long drives were never in the cards anyway. Biggest satisfaction might very come from people beating my wife's pretty birds..... and making me eat a little crow, especially with some of my trash talking on here trying to get a little excitement going to whip me one good !!


----------



## gazguildford

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> If you were an hour drive away or so, it might be fun to put some faces to the PT names. But, I am pretty sure the drive would be a little too far. And if some folks had issues with the $50 fee, then commercial airplanes or very long drives were never in the cards anyway.QUOTE]
> 
> america i loved it in california (and hope to go again someday, great people more importantly great beaches) but in the uk you can drive pretty much anywhere in a max of a day or fly absoloutly anywhere in an hour lol in the us doing meets its not so easy esp if you have to travel 1000s of miles to the other end of the country for any event thus why i love my little island esp England as the saying goes "british by birth English by the grace of god"
> 
> i cant wait to see the results of this race


----------



## conditionfreak

What is the difference between Britain, England and the United Kingdom, if any?


----------



## Crazy Pete

Well I wish I could be there The under six soccer sounds like fun, Kentucky fried chicken, iced tea, and a shade tree. Now thats the way to spend an after noon.
Dave


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

Crazy Pete said:


> Well I wish I could be there The under six soccer sounds like fun, *Kentucky fried chicken*, iced tea, and a shade tree. Now thats the way to spend an after noon.
> Dave


That's sound good to me too, but we do *El Pollo Loco* around here!


----------



## Big T

Now you know you will not feel like eating after my birds whip yours. Besides every bird knows you eat beef at these events not bird. (Except Warren's crow)


God Bless LOL,
Tony


----------



## gazguildford

conditionfreak said:


> What is the difference between Britain, England and the United Kingdom, if any?


britain (uk) includes england scotland wales and northern ireland... 4 seperate countrys all ran by the same plank gordon brown and hm the queen lol

so the diference is we all have different national saints englands being st george and different traditions. just like a mini version of europe we are all seperated by borders except northern ireland who are seperated by ocean so britain (uk) contains 4 countrys under the same government i am in the largest of them england.


----------



## Big T

Hey, It is getting close to shipping time. I need an address and phone number.

Ready, Set, Go,
Tony


----------



## kbraden

is there a link to say who is still in on this? Flapdoodle mentioned there was only 38 birds, that would mean maybe 19 people, but 40 were registered. Was just wondering who is in & who is not. (no reason other than curiosity)


----------



## Flapdoodle

kbraden said:


> is there a link to say who is still in on this? Flapdoodle mentioned there was only 38 birds, that would mean maybe 19 people, but 40 were registered. Was just wondering who is in & who is not. (no reason other than curiosity)


Braden, I am wondering who is in and who is not as well. We will not really know until I see birds in the loft. As was pointed out in an earlier post with no fees collected and a free race, I am sure we will get folks saying yes I am in and not send birds. The last go around this is what I could gather. If your name is not here, please do not shoot me. There is room for anyone that wants to enter, just send the birds.

If you did not get shipping information, shoot me an email below or a PM. Please email the day you ship the birds. Thanks....

Last count:

flapdoodle 2
Happy 2
bloodlines365 2
SmithFamilyLoft 2
Big T 2
whitesnmore 2
pattersonk2002 2
luckyloft 2
Southwing 2
Braden 2
Crazy Pete 1
Maryofexeter 2
Flamingo 2
youngsloft 2
dogging_99 2
Good 2
conditionfreak 2
Woodruff Loft 2
Airbaby 2
ozzy1963 1
george simon 2
Xueoo 2
* 42*


----------



## Big T

If I have it can I ship three?

Tony


----------



## Crazy Pete

El Pollo Loco never herd of it, is that how Toco Bell does chicken?
Dave


----------



## Flapdoodle

Tony/Everyone, There is room in the loft for anyone that wants to ship three birds.


----------



## Xueoo

Mine will be in the mail tomorrow (Tuesday). I'll send the tracking number when it's on it's way. 

I must say these two nestmates had a rough time growing up, as I left for Vegas for 4 days when they were 2 weeks old and when I got back they ran out of water and food. Them and their parents were somewhat thin. Not too bad, but you could tell it had an affect on them. I also bred and raised these in a 24x18x18 breeding cage in my garage under lights. A bit crowded and not the best environment for raising winners. I moved to this house a few months back and don't have a setup yet. It's been hard work raising these two. Real hard work. 

But, they turned out real nice and healthy and I expect them to be showing their tails to the rest of ya'lls...


----------



## pattersonk2002

*shipping*

I will not be shipping untill the 5th if that is to late stop me NOW >Kevin


----------



## Big T

pattersonk2002 said:


> I will not be shipping untill the 5th if that is to late stop me NOW >Kevin


That's my plan and that is in the window. Next two weeks the post office is NOT going to like Flapdoodle. Better him then me.

LOL Tony


----------



## Bella

Big T said:


> That's my plan and that is in the window. Next two weeks the post office is NOT going to like Flapdoodle. Better him then me.
> 
> LOL Tony


LOL...The gentleman at my post office the other day...called me "Birdlady". I guess I deserve that 

But Flapdoodle's post office REALLY has their work cut out for them!


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

Crazy Pete said:


> El Pollo Loco never herd of it, is that how Toco Bell does chicken?
> Dave


LOL...it must be just a california thing. It's the Mexican version of KFC around here.


----------



## Flapdoodle

Big T said:


> That's my plan and that is in the window. Next two weeks the post office is NOT going to like Flapdoodle. Better him then me.
> 
> LOL Tony


At this point I will take birds from now until April 24th. I have a few tracking numbers. First birds should get in tomorrow. Please shoot me an email after you ship birds and let me know tracking numbers. It is go time...


----------



## Flapdoodle

*Make sure you send your pretty ones!!*

It was brought to my attention that any respectable pigeon race should also have a show. Being that here in the forum we have fanciers that race birds and some that show I was thinking I would get pictures posted online and put a link to the album in the forum where members could vote on the prettiest bird.  

The loft has its first four, more shipping out today. Later this week I think we have one being dropped off. The bulk of the birds look to ship next week. 

*If you have birds that are weaned and want to participate there is room. *Shoot me an email or PM if you’re interested. 

This should be a lot of fun!


----------



## Xueoo

You should've said so sooner. I sent the ugly fast one's...


----------



## Big T

Xueoo said:


> You should've said so sooner. I sent the ugly fast one's...


Does pretty fast count?


----------



## Gnuretiree

I'm not participating in this race and I'm getting excited about it anyway. This is a great thing you're doing.

Hugh,
Salisbury, Ct


----------



## Big T

Gnuretiree said:


> I'm not participating in this race and I'm getting excited about it anyway. This is a great thing you're doing.
> 
> Hugh,
> Salisbury, Ct


Relax, you do not have to participate, just your birds.

LOL Tony


----------



## Flapdoodle

*What do you mean relax?*



Big T said:


> Relax, you do not have to participate, just your birds.
> 
> LOL Tony


When I read your post I lol. We condition our birds to do some pretty amazing things. Over the past six months I have been training for a triathlon. I am pretty stressed about it… it is much easier to train the birds, and let them do all the hard work. 

*First birds are in the loft!!!*A few of them are even pretty
We have birds from:

*Ace In The Hole
Hilly Family Loft
K2rmx.rob
Xueoo
AirBabyRacing*

Most of you are shipping this week and a few next week. The post office calls around 6:30, I drive up and get the birds. Please remember to shoot me an email or PM when you ship with an ETA so I will be looking for the phone call. Thanks... 

There is still space available for anyone else that wants to send birds. If you have young birds that you have not flown outside and want to participate just shoot me an email or PM. This will be a lot of fun…


----------



## Gnuretiree

Sounds like it will be a busy week or two. Good Luck Everyone!


----------



## Airbaby

Xueoo said:


> Mine will be in the mail tomorrow (Tuesday). I'll send the tracking number when it's on it's way.
> 
> I must say these two nestmates had a rough time growing up, as I left for Vegas for 4 days when they were 2 weeks old and when I got back they ran out of water and food. Them and their parents were somewhat thin. Not too bad, but you could tell it had an affect on them. I also bred and raised these in a 24x18x18 breeding cage in my garage under lights. A bit crowded and not the best environment for raising winners. I moved to this house a few months back and don't have a setup yet. It's been hard work raising these two. Real hard work.
> 
> But, they turned out real nice and healthy and I expect them to be showing their tails to the rest of ya'lls...


So are you sending fantail pigeons to the race?


----------



## conditionfreak

Shipping two tomorrow. I will PM you the details after I do.


----------



## Flapdoodle

*More birds in the loft!*



Flapdoodle said:


> *First birds are in the loft!!!*A few of them are even pretty
> We have birds from:
> 
> *Ace In The Hole
> Hilly Family Loft
> K2rmx.rob
> Xueoo
> AirBabyRacing*
> 
> There is still space available for anyone else that wants to send birds. If you have young birds that you have not flown outside and want to participate just shoot me an email or PM. This will be a lot of fun…


We now also have birds from:

*Happy
Conditionfreak
Jholl
MaryOfExeter
LuckyLoft
& SmithFamilyLoft
*

What about the rest of you? You have another week and a half to ship. If you have YB that have not loft flown it is not to late to get in the game...


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

Let the races begin!


----------



## Flapdoodle

*I never knew how bad it would be...*

So the biggest worry in all this is I get a sick bird from someone and then it spreads and I get a loft full of sick birds. Now that is my second biggest worry. I didn't even see this coming... I figure this post is in the racing forum and that it would be OK. I go to the post office this afternoon to pick up three boxes, get to the loft and open them up and *what the #%%&. * I don't know how you expect me to show up to allocate my race team with an OGO, a roller, and a pair of fantails. I know I said send your pretty ones but I still require something that resembles a homing pigeon. I took some picture of the four I got today... Just so everyone knows these are not racing pigeons. They might do well with our little show, but I don't know if I will even get in the door at the club. Another rule change for those that have not yet sent birds... no more fancy pigeons. 




























I guess I will just keep these and use them as droppers.... *Belated APRIL FOOLS*... all the birds look great and appear to resemble homing pigeons (sort of)


----------



## Xueoo

I must admit, I fell for it.


----------



## luckyloft

Ok you got me GOOD!I was thinking how could someone do that. Jeff


----------



## conditionfreak

Never had me for a moment. 

On another note. I mailed the birds on Tuesday at 12 noon from Ohio, and they arrived to California the next day. Wow. USPS told me that they would be there on Thursday, before 3 pm.

They were wrong and I am happy about it. I know this isn't said much these days. But kudos to the United States Postal people.


----------



## bloodlines_365

nice.... dont forget to count me in ill SEND mine soon,they still breast feeding to their dad.....


----------



## Big T

*NOT FUNNY* My Homers have standards, and they do not hang with high class do nothings. They only hang out with the working class. Now don't you mess that up they ship Monday. I'm sending four please.

LOL Tony


----------



## conditionfreak

Seriously folks. The #100 I sent is from my 'special" stock, and I expect to do quite well with it. You guys and gals will be fighting for third place I'm afraid.

My "special" stock is a hen that won money in the Mercedez Classic. The cock bird is a mix of a feral I obtained from a friends barn and a hen that won money in the Flamingo Classic.

I expect the feral blood to shine through and be the icing on the cake. Here is why.

Ferals have to deal with predator birds 24/7. They do not have us to protect them with cages, doors and shoe throwing. So, as the season progresses, the ability to deal with the predators by my "special mix" bloodline #100, will keep it in the race until seasons end, and therefore assist in putting up the numbers (points). Additionally, ferals have better "constitution", being from a more natural stock and not having been imbred by us humans over the centuries, due to line breeding and inbreeding. My "special mix" bird should exhibit a healthier and more robust immune system.

So, when the rest of your grubs (er, ah, I mean "racers") get eaten by the predators or succumb to disease. My "special mix" bird will not.

Thus my reasoning. As you can see. All based on sound logic, and I might add. An almost Flawless plan. The only small flaw being Flapdoodle not knowing how to handle a quality feral special mix. He is the weak link in this chain of world domination, er, ah, I mean, winning the PT competition.

FIRST THE PT COMPETITION. NEXT THE WORLD!!!



Oh, Almost forgot #108. It is from a different kind of "special mix" and I expect to do no better than 2nd with it (naturally, since #100 will be 1st). I will keep its special mix a secret for now. It will be more fun to reveal later when everyone is begging to know for their own future breeding plans. 

From here on out. #100 will be known as "Marine Won", and #108 will be known as "WindWalker". From "Marine One Lofts".

(P.S. Y'all might want to put this page in your "favorites" section, to refer back to when the season is over)


----------



## Crazy Pete

Grrrr... Guess I wont be sending birds any place this yr I've had to seperate 6 birds with PMV and I dont want to spoil the race for every body by taking a chance on sending a sick bird.
Dave


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

Flapdoodle said:


> So the biggest worry in all this is I get a sick bird from someone and then it spreads and I get a loft full of sick birds. Now that is my second biggest worry. I didn't even see this coming... I figure this post is in the racing forum and that it would be OK. I go to the post office this afternoon to pick up three boxes, get to the loft and open them up and *what the #%%&. * I don't know how you expect me to show up to allocate my race team with an OGO, a roller, and a pair of fantails. I know I said send your pretty ones but I still require something that resembles a homing pigeon. I took some picture of the four I got today... Just so everyone knows these are not racing pigeons. They might do well with our little show, but I don't know if I will even get in the door at the club. Another rule change for those that have not yet sent birds... no more fancy pigeons.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess I will just keep these and use them as droppers.... *Belated APRIL FOOLS*... all the birds look great and appear to resemble homing pigeons (sort of)



Hey any NEWS or any such thing ? Did the wife's "fantails" get lost off the landing board yet ?


----------



## Flapdoodle

Well I survived my 2.4-mile swim, 112-mile bike, and then 26.3-mile run/jog/crawl… 
It took me just shy of 16 hours. The birds can get it done in two...

I am hanging up the bike and cancelling the pool membership. Time to focus on the birds, Warren inspired me with his videos, from here on out I will get a new video up every weekend updating everyone on the progress of the birds. 

Currently there are 54 birds in the loft. We started with 55 birds, 31 from pt members, 2 from a guy in my club, and 22 that I raised. The rest of the YB’s from my breeders went to a new flyer in my club. We are shy one bird, I will have to do an inventory and figure out who is gone. At this point, I do not know which bird or what happened other then the end of last week one came up missing (hawk, wire, ?). 

There are many different ways to do this. The birds are loft flying about an hour each morning. Today they flew for about 30 minutes. I weigh the feed and record how much I am feeding. I have been slowly lowering the amount of feed each day this week. It gets them to trap quickly but also shortens how long they fly. What I am looking to do is get all the birds quickly trapping at the same time. The past few mornings I get an early group that traps and a second group that flies around the loft a while. They should all be trapping together by the end of the week. Then I will up their feed and time in the air.


Things on the to-do list for this coming week:

1.	Inventory
2.	PMV vaccine (I had hoped to get this done sooner)
3.	Crate training, first toss by the end of next week.

Hope your birds are healthy, happy, and flying! Look for a video from me this weekend!


----------



## Flapdoodle

*First video attempt*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdO9WBVQL5E

Feel free to leave any feed back, questions, advice, unconstructive or constructive criticism… I am not saying I will change anything… but feel free to vent .

I do rinse out the bleach/water solution. 

Battery went dead after the birds flew from the loft. 

They only flew about twenty minutes. I had a hard time getting a few birds out of the loft. The ones that kept flying after everybody else trapped yesterday were a little hungry, as they did not get that much to eat. They were however, the first ones in line for breakfast today.

Just a side note (not that it means anything)... first bird out of the loft looks like one of the pretty birds named "Silver Ice". 

Hope every one has a great weekend!


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Nice video! Kept looking hard to see if I could pick out my red check  LOL.


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

Flapdoodle said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdO9WBVQL5E
> 
> Feel free to leave any feed back, questions, advice, unconstructive or constructive criticism… I am not saying I will change anything… but feel free to vent .
> 
> I do rinse out the bleach/water solution.
> 
> Battery went dead after the birds flew from the loft.
> 
> They only flew about twenty minutes. I had a hard time getting a few birds out of the loft. The ones that kept flying after everybody else trapped yesterday were a little hungry, as they did not get that much to eat. They were however, the first ones in line for breakfast today.
> 
> Just a side note (not that it means anything)... first bird out of the loft looks like one of the pretty birds named "Silver Ice".
> 
> Hope every one has a great weekend!


Love the Video Update !!! The old saying a picture or in this case a video, is worth a thousand words !!!


----------



## conditionfreak

Did someone send the white ones or did you breed them?


----------



## luckyloft

Thanks for the video! I was looking for mine too, but knowing my luck the 1 missing is one of mine. Jeff


----------



## Airbaby

Very nice area for the loft....heck mine have power wires over the loft and in front of it across the street along with trees on all sides....beautiful area too.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Nice video, lovely property, nice job with the birds. I hope they fly well for you. 

Randy


----------



## Guest

hillfamilyloft said:


> Nice video, lovely property, nice job with the birds. I hope they fly well for you.
> 
> Randy


I agree you got some great space there to train your birds right


----------



## Big T

Nice video, good job so far. 

Tony


----------



## Gnuretiree

Really nice job. Very impressive. Quite an undertaking you took on here. I for one am really enjoying it and I did not send a bird.

Hugh


----------



## rackerman

Gnuretiree said:


> Really nice job. Very impressive. Quite an undertaking you took on here. I for one am really enjoying it and I did not send a bird.
> 
> Hugh


same here............I agree, good job!


----------



## Flapdoodle

conditionfreak said:


> Did someone send the white ones or did you breed them?


I bred one of them, out of a cock from Dennis Kuhn. The others are from PT members.


----------



## Flapdoodle

*Inventory*

Randy don't hate me. Here is the current inventory. The MIA bird is from Ace in the Hole, I think. I didn't keep good track of who sent which birds (rookie mistake). I think I have the birds and breeders correct. If not please let me know. 

Inventory


----------



## hillfamilyloft

No problem, we all loose birds. It only takes one bird to win.

Randy


----------



## ace in the hole

Flapdoodle said:


> Randy don't hate me. Here is the current inventory. The MIA bird is from Ace in the Hole, I think. I didn't keep good track of who sent which birds (rookie mistake). I think I have the birds and breeders correct. If not please let me know.
> 
> Inventory


Yes, Sorry Randy he has them right.

Ace - LCC 460 & 461

Hill - LCC 463 & 464

K2RMX - LCC 465 & 466

But Randy, on the brighter side. That BBWFSP from your Buzz's Perfection & The Blue Ace is all you'll need. Right! ( you beat my post )

Ace


----------



## Big T

Bummer, now they know who sent whites.

Tony


----------



## Flapdoodle

hillfamilyloft said:


> No problem, we all loose birds. It only takes one bird to win.
> 
> Randy


I know we will lose birds, when they are mine it sucks, when there someone elses and I lose them it is a different kind of sucks... it feels worse, I will get over it... I know there will be more losses before the races even start, that is the way it goes... 



Big T said:


> Bummer, now they know who sent whites.
> 
> Tony


Sorry for outing you like that


----------



## Flapdoodle

*Video #2 Saturday Bath, Feeding, and inside the Loft*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOUDlFlgR-E

I made another video, I tried working on my editing skills and voice over, I will figure this out…some of the footage is from the camera phone so it is not real clear.


----------



## ace in the hole

I have a question from your last video and the open trap that you are using. Are you using an e clock? If so do you have enough antenna pad to cover the whole trap area?

By the way, I did see one of my birds in the video.

Mark/Ace


----------



## Flapdoodle

ace in the hole said:


> I have a question from your last video and the open trap that you are using. Are you using an e clock? If so do you have enough antenna pad to cover the whole trap area?
> 
> By the way, I did see one of my birds in the video.
> 
> Mark/Ace


I do have an e clock. It is as Benzing Atis Top. I don't have the newer lazer antenna. My antenna is the old one with the rollers to keep the birds going over the sensors. The rollers are no longer on the antenna. But it is the large one, I think 30". I cut the hole to fit the antenna.

I put the antenna on the landing board full time a few weeks before the races so the birds get use to it. After I let the birds out I have a wood box that I put over the antenna, it basically forces the birds to go through one of four lanes and get clocked as they go into the loft.


----------



## Happy

Flapdodle, Have you PMV'ed the PT Race birds yet?? I worry abt. that with so many from all over US & could destroy the race if they came down with PMV...... Also, have you nominated your Band numbers for the PT Race?? Just checking....... Love the Videos, etc.. Your doing a Great Job!!! Thanks, Hap


----------



## Big T

One thing is for sure, I can spot my birds in a crowd. Are you giving my birds their sweet tea and snuff? I know they like the lay of the land, and I guess they have gotten use to those common folks they got to live with.

On a serious note, you doing a great job. Don't sweat the small stuff and thanks for keeping us informed.

God Bless,
Tony


----------



## conditionfreak

I should have sent birds that could be easily recognized, instead of those racing homers. 

I like how detailed your feeding and training is thus far.

Of course, my opinion will change, and you will suck Big Time, after my birds get lost in a training flight. 

(hey, I'm only human)


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## MaryOfExeter

I could have swore I sent a red check, LOL. Guess not. I know I was in a hurry that morning, but now I think I remember saying "Nah, I'll keep the check home and send one from each pair".
Nice video by the way


----------



## Flapdoodle

Happy said:


> Flapdodle, Have you PMV'ed the PT Race birds yet?? I worry abt. that with so many from all over US & could destroy the race if they came down with PMV...... Also, have you nominated your Band numbers for the PT Race?? Just checking....... Love the Videos, etc.. Your doing a Great Job!!! Thanks, Hap


I wanted to get this done sooner. Vaccine came yesterday, tomorrow AM is the plan.












conditionfreak said:


> Of course, my opinion will change, and you will suck Big Time, after my birds get lost in a training flight.
> 
> (hey, I'm only human)


First toss tonight. Hopefully I don't suck big time tomorrow


----------



## Crazy Pete

I wish I would have gotten my vaccine 6 weeks soner. After getting PMV in my loft I can't send birds to a one loft this yr but can I send any next yr?
Dave


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Crazy Pete

I also had some issues with what I thought was PMV. That is why ACE In The Hole, Mark, sent my birds this year. I to did not want to introduce problems into the PT race loft also. After vaccinating the birds I have not had any more issues. My entire young bird team this year went to one loft with the exception of two birds that were out of a loft separate from the issue loft. I vaccinated every bird that I sent out. All the young birds are healthy and flying well. 

Mark and I have shared bloodlines. This is a good method of bio security. If you have illness that wipes out a good portion of your birds, it is good to have your best blood in other lofts. 

I am now a firm believer in vaccination. Before I had my doubts. It is not that hard and cures a bunch of issues. I did end up loosing 4 birds. All key breeders. A few others came out of it. After vaccination no losses. Sickness seems to rear its ugly head when the breeders are stressed with rearing young. 

Good luck licking the PMV. I cleaned my loft and sprayed every surface with bleach water. Bleached the drinkers daily and changed water twice daily. This helped greatly. I stopped all breeding also to stress the birds less. I raised most of my young out of my flying loft this year. I would also spray my shoes with bleach when going between lofts. 

Thanks for not sending birds out of a sick loft. I wish more people would use your good judgement. 

Randy


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Another thought for those like me that are very selective of which birds they bring in, PMV and other illnesses can be brought in by sparrows, mice, etc, that we have less control over. 

I am very glad Flappy is vaccinating the birds. They will be mixed with many others. 

Randy


----------



## Crazy Pete

pigeon_ racer is my vet the day the birds came down with it I went and got the meds and every bird I have was fixed the same day. Thank God I didn't loose any birds and all is well now.
Dave


----------



## Flapdoodle

*PMV vaccine, 1st & 2nd Toss*

We had a busy weekend… The short version: Friday AM PMV vaccine, all 54 birds. It took an hour and half. The plan was to toss the birds Friday afternoon. I got chicken because of the weather. Saturday AM first toss 2 miles it went great. Sunday AM second toss, 5 miles, where are the birds?… heart failure, no really where the heck are the birds?…I guess my season over and I am banned from the forum… 

If you have time you can check out the videos… If not the birds are all here and doing great.

The videos are a little long, The first has some footage with the camera phone. It is not all that great… I thought I had battery problems with the real camera it ended up being a memory issue which I think it is resolved. 

I hope you all have great week!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWvEs4iwcF4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SNAQsRtfuY


----------



## luckyloft

Thank you for the videos.They are great!I dont know if my birds will do anything but I have enjoyed the shots of where you live.You live in a very beautiful area of the country!Pigeons,turkeys,goats,dogs just great!Also thank you for all the work, Vacs and the way you keep the loft clean speaks very well of you!I wish I had gotten back into pigeons when my girls were a little younger they really have no interest in my birds but seeing your daughter help release the birds really was great.Enjoy those moments they grow up TO FAST. Jeff


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## Big T

Love the video. Don't worry about my birds, I did a head count and they are all there.
You have a beautiful daughter. Enjoy her while she is young, they grow up so fast.

God Bless,
Tony


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Great to see some better hawk bait than my splash in the loft, with those white birds. Thanks for the videos. You have a very nice set-up.


----------



## Flapdoodle

*Video Update for last week. (Bird in the sickbay, 3rd toss, lightning fast trapping)*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7jwCJfvNkQ


I might be a little paranoid but I removed a bird from the loft. Tuesday morning after all the birds had eaten. I noticed one of the birds with a dirty cere, ruffled feathers, not looking well. I caught the bird and it had some dark greenish mucous in the slit in the roof of the mouth and a little discharge around the eyes. I put the bird in the sickbay and treated it for respiratory infection using Doxy-T. It is product added to the drinker containing doxycycline and tylosin. The bird looks great now, roof of the mouth is cleared up, eyes are no longer runny, I will move back to the loft tonight. 

I typically don’t medicate the birds unless they need it but (being paranoid) last Tuesday I started a five-day course of a four in one treatment. They are all fine and look good. The past few days I have added pro-biotic to the water called Probac from the same company that makes Doxy-T. 

As far as the footage of the birds trapping, that is from the 5-mile toss Saturday. It took 14 minutes from the first bird to the last to get in the loft. I edited the footage to get the highlights sparing you the 14 minutes. My goal is to get them all in the loft in less then a minute. Which they have done 90 percent of the time. I am not stressed about it at this point but just making some observations. Three reasons for the slow trapping: 

#1 in a couple of the video clips you can hear a coopers hawk that was flying all around that morning. He did not bother the birds but they knew he was there and would follow him occasionally has he would fly by.

#2 the camera is resting on a fence post against a bright red bucket. New to the pigeons and I think it had them a little spooked. 

#3 I am feeding too much. We are up to about 2 ½ pounds of feed twice a day. That is about 1 ½ ounces per bird per day. I noticed over the weekend that the birds are leaving the peas. They pick up all they want and are leaving a little extra, based on their trapping and leaving feed I will cut the feed back slightly so they clean it all up and trap faster. 

Hope everyone had a great Memorial Day. I hope to get the birds up the road a few times this week in the weather cooperates. Have a great week…


----------



## rackerman

*Awesome video, great job your doing there.......*


----------



## Big T

hillfamilyloft said:


> Great to see some better hawk bait than my splash in the loft, with those white birds. Thanks for the videos. You have a very nice set-up.


Careful, or my birds will spit in yours birds' eyes and whip their tail feathers.

Be nice,
Tony


----------



## Guest

to er on the side of caution is the best course of action if you ask me so your doing great in my opinion , always glad to follow the haps in this thread


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Big T said:


> Careful, or my birds will spit in yours birds' eyes and whip their tail feathers.
> 
> Be nice,
> Tony


Didn't you see that movie, "White Birds can't Spit".


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

Flapdoodle said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7jwCJfvNkQ
> 
> 
> I might be a little paranoid but I removed a bird from the loft. Tuesday morning after all the birds had eaten. I noticed one of the birds with a dirty cere, ruffled feathers, not looking well. I caught the bird and it had some dark greenish mucous in the slit in the roof of the mouth and a little discharge around the eyes. I put the bird in the sickbay and treated it for respiratory infection using Doxy-T. It is product added to the drinker containing doxycycline and tylosin. The bird looks great now, roof of the mouth is cleared up, eyes are no longer runny, I will move back to the loft tonight.
> 
> I typically don’t medicate the birds unless they need it but (being paranoid) last Tuesday I started a five-day course of a four in one treatment. They are all fine and look good. The past few days I have added pro-biotic to the water called Probac from the same company that makes Doxy-T.
> 
> As far as the footage of the birds trapping, that is from the 5-mile toss Saturday. It took 14 minutes from the first bird to the last to get in the loft. I edited the footage to get the highlights sparing you the 14 minutes. My goal is to get them all in the loft in less then a minute. Which they have done 90 percent of the time. I am not stressed about it at this point but just making some observations. Three reasons for the slow trapping:
> 
> #1 in a couple of the video clips you can hear a coopers hawk that was flying all around that morning. He did not bother the birds but they knew he was there and would follow him occasionally has he would fly by.
> 
> #2 the camera is resting on a fence post against a bright red bucket. New to the pigeons and I think it had them a little spooked.
> 
> #3 I am feeding too much. We are up to about 2 ½ pounds of feed twice a day. That is about 1 ½ ounces per bird per day. I noticed over the weekend that the birds are leaving the peas. They pick up all they want and are leaving a little extra, based on their trapping and leaving feed I will cut the feed back slightly so they clean it all up and trap faster.
> 
> Hope everyone had a great Memorial Day. I hope to get the birds up the road a few times this week in the weather cooperates. Have a great week…


 I am enjoying your video updates ! 

I think that last one sitting on the loft which took about a minute or so to go in was one of mine. Most likely was ahead of everyone by about ten minutes or so as well, and was doing victory laps when the flock came home. Most likely he was thinking.....why are all the others so quick to want to stuff their bills and then sleep the rest of the afternoon ? He's ready to fly another hundred laps around the loft !!! Come on....let's have a real 100 mile training toss or something ! Anything but these little baby tosses !! .....yep, that's what was going on in his head....yep, quite sure.


----------



## Xueoo

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> I am enjoying your video updates !
> 
> I think that last one sitting on the loft which took about a minute or so to go in was one of mine. Most likely was ahead of everyone by about ten minutes or so as well, and was doing victory laps when the flock came home. Most likely he was thinking.....why are all the others so quick to want to stuff their bills and then sleep the rest of the afternoon ? He's ready to fly another hundred laps around the loft !!! Come on....let's have a real 100 mile training toss or something ! Anything but these little baby tosses !! .....yep, that's what was going on in his head....yep, quite sure.


Must run in the family. Looks just like the one's sitting in the trees in your vids


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

*Now that was funny !*



Xueoo said:


> Must run in the family. Looks just like the one's sitting in the trees in your vids





Hey !!

Now I don't care who you are, that was a great come back, and that was funny !!


----------



## Flapdoodle

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> ...... Come on....let's have a real 100 mile training toss or something ! Anything but these little baby tosses !! .....


mollycoddling them, the word is mollycoddling... I will get up the hill soon enough...


----------



## Guest

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Hey !!
> 
> Now I don't care who you are, that was a great come back, and that was funny !!


i agree that was LOL funny... whahahaha


----------



## TAWhatley

Great thread and a great undertaking folks! I'm enjoying the videos and the gentle jabs going around.

So .. when is the Great Race? Do we get video? Is there live commentary?

Keep those videos and comments coming, please.

Terry


----------



## conditionfreak

It is no longer a "great race", but instead, is a young bird season long event. Whereupon the participating birds will compete all season and obtain points (or lack thereof) in each weeks races.

Then at the end of the season, there will be a point count and the winning bird/s declared.

This is actually better I believe, than a one or two shot race/s. Let the cream rise to the top instead of having a lucky day.

That's my take on it anyway.


----------



## ace in the hole

For me it is one more chance to test some of my birds. It may be years before I can race again but I do have birds racing in several lofts accross the country.

The birds I sent to this race are from new pairings.

Ace


----------



## Flapdoodle

*train wreck toss*

I don’t know what to say, birds looked great, flying every am and pm around the loft. They beat me home from a ten-mile toss. Where are the birds now? 

I hope you enjoy watching the video as much as I enjoy living it. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVYfYyNb4o8

Trying to think what went wrong here: 

The spot I released them had a lot of trees. I had hoped they would break left out over the railroad tracks but they went right and had to gain some elevation quickly to get over. I am pretty sure they were all grouped together as they headed home. I don’t really see this as the problem.

I guess they maybe could have met up with a group of old birds from the races. I was going to bring them up the road Sunday but decided not to because our old bird races are still going on. I didn’t want them to follow any old birds so bailed on a Sunday release just in case some birds had not made it back yet. It was only a 250 mile toss for the old birds they should of all been home Saturday. The 500 and 600 mile races will carryover Sunday and maybe even Monday the next two weekends. I do not think it was old birds.

The way the birds are coming in my guess would be a hawk or falcon scattered them. They flew every which direction and after they settle down will head home. 

I like to think we get the majority of the birds back today and/or tomorrow. All we can do at this point is keep our fingers crossed. I guess I could not post this until tonight or tomorrow when I know the final count, but I figure this way you get a small part of what I am going through today.


----------



## Big T

How much easier could it had been, all they had to do was follow the white birds.

Praying for safe return,
Tony


----------



## luckyloft

Been there done that! Take em off everything looks great, birds look great weather looks great and BAM!Dont feel bad am sure its not you.My guess is most will trickle back in, may take a day or two.If the white with the red flakes has a blue band it maybe mine. Jeff


----------



## Flapdoodle

Big T said:


> How much easier could it had been, all they had to do was follow the white birds.
> 
> Praying for safe return,
> Tony


your prayers must work.... 3:04 PM update:

My 12 year old just called, 52 birds in the loft... I sent 53. I will do another head count and get an updated inventory when I get home or in the AM. 

I failed to mention one of my birds hit a wire (I think) flying around the loft Saturday night. I didn't notice until Sunday AM. I let everyone out of the loft and she couldn't fly. I checked her the best I could no visible problems. She just can't fly... not sure what's up maybe a bad wing. I moved her out of the loft only because I want to make sure all her plumbing is working, monitor food and fluid uptake etc...

Loft fly tonight and tomorrow up the road Wednesday...


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Yep, sounds like a hawk to me. Usually when you have a bust and all but one comes home - that's the one that became fast food for Mr. Cooper. I'm glad everyone else is home


----------



## Xueoo

Glad they made it home. Twenty-five miles is nothing, so there were no worries from me, as far a big loss was concerned.


----------



## conditionfreak

Two thoughts.

1) Wide open release points are over rated. I don't think that had anything to do with the birds coming in late and scattered.

2) Apparently white racing pigeons don't like to fly, and therefore head for the sofa (perch) quicker. While real racing pigeons like to fly and thus do, for longer periods of time. Just sight seeing and enjoying.

It is always a shame when one doesn't come home. But it does not mean that a hawk got it. Sometimes the hawks just scare the heck out of them and they fly and fly, until they are sure there is nothing chasing them. Then they come home. In flight, racing homers more often than not, escape the hawks.

Holding my fingers crossed for the 53rd one.


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

Flap your are doing a fine job bro, a fine job! The video updates are awesome! I hope you do this again next year because I'll be sure to be ready for that one!


----------



## Big T

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> Flap your are doing a fine job bro, a fine job! The video updates are awesome! I hope you do this again next year because I'll be sure to be ready for that one!


Just for the record, conditionfreak spoke up on doing it next year. I know he is taking notes cause Flap is doing a good job and I am sure Flap is learning a lot also. 

Yep, white birds are lazy. That why they fly home first, so they can sit in the lawn chair holding a beer from the cooler laughing at the slow birds. On that note, I need a beer. I just got home from pulling a double and got to do it again tonight.

Good Night and God Bless,
Tony


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

Thanks for the 411 Tony! I didn't catch that Conditionfreak will be taking on the challenge next year. I'm sure he'll do a great job!


----------



## Flapdoodle

I counted birds last night and we have all 53. We will never know what happened hawk or another group of pigeons probably. One thing for sure is they learn each something every time they are out. 

As far as next year, thanks to Tony my boss says I can only breed, buy, or acquire white pigeons from here on out. It looks like the only birds I will be flying after this are whites (maybe I can talk her in to grizzles). 

My wife showed no interest in the birds, now she wants a new loft close to the house, all whites.... Thanks a lot Tony....


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

A flock of whites is a beautiful sight to see! I don't blame your wife for wanting a flock of her own.


----------



## conditionfreak

Gotta say that I doubt I will do as good a job as Flapdoodle, but I will give it my best.

He seems to enjoy waking up real early in the morning. As for me, 10 am is early enough.  (it's nice being retired)


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

The video update is where it's at! There's no better way show how the birds are doing better than a video can when you can't just swing by and pay a visit.


----------



## Big T

Flapdoodle said:


> I counted birds last night and we have all 53. We will never know what happened hawk or another group of pigeons probably. One thing for sure is they learn each something every time they are out.
> 
> As far as next year, thanks to Tony my boss says I can only breed, buy, or acquire white pigeons from here on out. It looks like the only birds I will be flying after this are whites (maybe I can talk her in to grizzles).
> 
> My wife showed no interest in the birds, now she wants a new loft close to the house, all whites.... Thanks a lot Tony....


Well, I started her off right, she has four beautiful white birds from different pairs so she can breed them if they make it passed the races. If not, I'll hook her up.

And you are very welcome cause I know you would rather sleep in bed with your wife then in the dog house with your pigeons.

May God bless you and your happy home,
Tony

PS Remember you asked for this, even if you didn't know it at the time.


----------



## Guest

Big T said:


> Well, I started her off right, she has four beautiful white birds from different pairs so she can breed them if they make it passed the races. If not, I'll hook her up.
> 
> And you are very welcome cause I know you would rather sleep in bed with your wife then in the dog house with your pigeons.
> 
> May God bless you and your happy home,
> Tony
> 
> PS Remember you asked for this, even if you didn't know it at the time.


and people are always saying racing whites isnt where its at lol hope you get to prove them wrong this season


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

conditionfreak said:


> Two thoughts.
> 
> 1) Wide open release points are over rated. I don't think that had anything to do with the birds coming in late and scattered.
> 
> *2) Apparently white racing pigeons don't like to fly, and therefore head for the sofa (perch) quicker. While real racing pigeons like to fly and thus do, for longer periods of time. Just sight seeing and enjoying.*
> It is always a shame when one doesn't come home. But it does not mean that a hawk got it. Sometimes the hawks just scare the heck out of them and they fly and fly, until they are sure there is nothing chasing them. Then they come home. In flight, racing homers more often than not, escape the hawks.
> 
> Holding my fingers crossed for the 53rd one.


Yep, I think you are correct....the REAL racing pigeons went for a little afternoon fly....where as the white pigeons knew they were out about as far as they could fly back from, so simply headed straight back so they could stuff their faces and rest from the exhausting "work out". At least that is my story, and I am sticking to it !!


----------



## Big T

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Yep, I think you are correct....the REAL racing pigeons went for a little afternoon fly....where as the white pigeons knew they were out about as far as they could fly back from, so simply headed straight back so they could stuff their faces and rest from the exhausting "work out". At least that is my story, and I am sticking to it !!


Learn from your birds, get that Coors out of your hand, butt out of the chair, put on some pants and get moving, white boy. That's my story, and I am sticking to it!!!!!! Speaking of moving, let me put on my pants and cut the yard.

Bu By Tony


----------



## Guest

I think this is the only time that saying white powerrrrr would be ok lol


----------



## Big T

Big T said:


> Learn from your birds, get that Coors out of your hand, butt out of the chair, put on some pants and get moving, white boy. That's my story, and I am sticking to it!!!!!! Speaking of moving, let me put on my pants and cut the yard.
> 
> Bu By Tony


I'm sorry Warren, that was rude of me. As one white boy to another I should know better. Please keep the Coors when you get moving.

Tony


----------



## TAWhatley

Hmmm .. white birds .. white boys .. Coors .. interesting combination here .. bet the wives and girlfriends win no matter! 

Good luck to all of you and your birds!

Terry


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

Big T said:


> I'm sorry Warren, that was rude of me. As one white boy to another I should know better. Please keep the Coors when you get moving.
> 
> Tony


Tony,

You are one funny guy. You must have the Stars and Bars flying in your front yard, along with the Don't Thread on Me Flag, most likely a POW MIA flag as well, as you sweat and toil with every new chore your wife comes up for you to do....I can hear it now....yes dear....yes dear.....yes dear....

Everyone on the estate knows that I have Luis and his son mow my lawn, as Karen and I sit under a big umbrella, sipping on those Long Island Ice Tea's in tall frosted glasses with those pretty straws that the swim suit ladies make us when they are not laying by the pool soaking up those rays and looking pretty. Uh....life is soooooo good !......


----------



## Big T

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Tony,
> 
> You are one funny guy. You must have the Stars and Bars flying in your front yard, along with the Don't Thread on Me Flag, most likely a POW MIA flag as well, as you sweat and toil with every new chore your wife comes up for you to do....I can hear it now....yes dear....yes dear.....yes dear....
> 
> Everyone on the estate knows that I have Luis and his son mow my lawn, as Karen and I sit under a big umbrella, sipping on those Long Island Ice Tea's in tall frosted glasses with those pretty straws that the swim suit ladies make us when they are not laying by the pool soaking up those rays and looking pretty. Uh....life is soooooo good !......


I cannot stop laughing!!!! This is good!!!! I should feel bad but I don't. So here is the scoop. My birds cannot race. They will train but they cannot race, In the end the only one to blame, me, my fault. When ordering bands, I ordered NPA bands for my Frillbacks, Indian Fantails, And Figuritas, so I went ahead and ordered for the Homers also. I usually order AU bands and the price is the same I just saved myself three dollars shipping. Hindsight being twenty twenty, I knew better and really three dollars. Just know I truely am very sorry for I am really enjoying the fun. But we all learn from our mistakes and I now have more AU bands for my homers and only AU bands. 

Flapdoodle, the whites are now a gift to your wife. Since they cannot race no need to wait. I am very sorry for my mistake, I was so looking forward to poking fun and being poked fun of for the next few months. Your call if you want me to pay you the fee, but you will not be paying me anything, No questions!!!

Warren you are a good and funning guy, "sipping on those Long Island Ice Tea's in tall frosted glasses with those pretty straws," I think NOT. Your wife, maybe, but you my friend drink BEER and I know it is out of a can. Nice try, trying to act high class, but we on this forum know you to be a good ole boy. I willing to bet like you, I fly one flag, the stars and stripes. "One nation, under God."

God Bless and happy racing,
Tony


----------



## hillfamilyloft

If I remember right the AU regulations state that for a band fee that other banded birds can race in an AU sanctioned race. Something to look into. I do not know if club or combine bylaws can override AU rules. 

Randy


----------



## Big T

hillfamilyloft said:


> If I remember right the AU regulations state that for a band fee that other banded birds can race in an AU sanctioned race. Something to look into. I do not know if club or combine bylaws can override AU rules.
> 
> Randy


If that is true I'll pay it, but the club is not going to override the rules. I can understand why, start bending rule and when do you stop?

Tony


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

hillfamilyloft said:


> If I remember right the AU regulations state that for a band fee that other banded birds can race in an AU sanctioned race. Something to look into. I do not know if club or combine bylaws can override AU rules.
> 
> Randy


What am I missing here ? 

No where in any AU rules, does it forbid an AU member from entering a bird banded by some other association. Now, if memory serves me correctly, there may be a fee attached, if one wants to be entered into, and win various AU awards. If there is a club somewhere which is refusing to fly a YB because it does not have an AU band on it's leg, then I think that is a very unwise policy. I would be willing to have the affected club speak with an AU Officer and discuss the matter with them.


----------



## Flapdoodle

When we were first kicking this around it was a one-loft race and we would accept any band. When I saw the number of birds, it made more sense to fly with or as my youngbird team. Before I even mentioned it in the forum I checked with the club secretary and he indicated that is no problem flying IF bands. He said the AU will allow non AU or foreign bands. He indicated I just needed to register them with the AU and pay $1.00 so they would be eligible. 

While doing the first inventory I saw the NPA bands, and realized I hadn’t read or talked to anyone regarding the NPA bands specifically. I checked the rules, called the AU, and they do not recognize NPA bands even as foreign bands. At that point, I made Tony aware of the situation. The hope was the club and combine would just let me fly the birds knowing they would not be eligible for awards. 

The combine race secretary indicated that birds without an approved band could not even be released with an AU race per rule 7.08 & 7.09 

http://www.pigeon.org/racerules.htm

The issue he said is the NPA has 6 or 7 different size bands that are not as wide as AU or IF bands. A little larger band could be removed from one pigeon and put on another. 

The situation stinks. I do not think it would be that big of deal to let the four birds race. 

The birds are in the loft, the reason we all did this was to see how our birds did against others in the forum, talk a little trash, and have some fun. I think we can still do that. I hope to allocate the birds this weekend. I will start using the clock. The 4 birds in question will get electronic bands like everyone else. Tony you will at least get an idea of how they do. I can still send the birds on the truck once the races start. Trainers have nothing to do with the AU as it is a seprate release. 

Sorry all for “*MY*” mistake, especially to you Tony.

This will turn out like the situation of that one bird you don’t get a band on in time. It ends up being the best bird in your loft that year that you can’t race.


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

Flapdoodle said:


> When we were first kicking this around it was a one-loft race and we would accept any band. When I saw the number of birds, it made more sense to fly with or as my youngbird team. Before I even mentioned it in the forum I checked with the club secretary and he indicated that is no problem flying IF bands. He said the AU will allow non AU or foreign bands. He indicated I just needed to register them with the AU and pay $1.00 so they would be eligible.
> 
> While doing the first inventory I saw the NPA bands, and realized I hadn’t read or talked to anyone regarding the NPA bands specifically. I checked the rules, called the AU, and they do not recognize NPA bands even as foreign bands. At that point, I made Tony aware of the situation. The hope was the club and combine would just let me fly the birds knowing they would not be eligible for awards.
> 
> The combine race secretary indicated that birds without an approved band could not even be released with an AU race per rule 7.08 & 7.09
> 
> http://www.pigeon.org/racerules.htm
> 
> The issue he said is the NPA has 6 or 7 different size bands that are not as wide as AU or IF bands. A little larger band could be removed from one pigeon and put on another.
> 
> The situation stinks. I do not think it would be that big of deal to let the four birds race.
> 
> The birds are in the loft, the reason we all did this was to see how our birds did against others in the forum, talk a little trash, and have some fun. I think we can still do that. I hope to allocate the birds this weekend. I will start using the clock. The 4 birds in question will get electronic bands like everyone else. Tony you will at least get an idea of how they do. I can still send the birds on the truck once the races start. Trainers have nothing to do with the AU as it is a seprate release.
> 
> Sorry all for “*MY*” mistake, especially to you Tony.
> 
> This will turn out like the situation of that one bird you don’t get a band on in time. *It ends up being the best bird in your loft that year that you can’t race*.


 I have a couple of prime examples of no banders myself this year !! 

Well....I guess I got a bit of an education. Somewhere in the back of my mind, I had not considered the possibility of an NPA band. Although, one would think, that any band which could slip off a leg of a pigeon would automatically disqualify a bird, but an NPA size could always be stipulated I would think. If that is the rule, then that is the rule. I guess I am just a bit disappointed, and wish someone could actually explain the reason why a correctly banded pigeon with required information such as year, reg ID, and an individual number, can not, and should not, under any circumstances, be allowed to fly in a local club event. 

I understand the need for the AU to collect a fee to register such bands, for the purposes of race awards and such, I am just not certain, that in our little PT "One Loft Show and Race" event, it was meant to disqualify the NPA bands. I would vote to charge a $5 per bird registration fee, $3 which would go to AU and perhaps $2 to more local race organizations. 

That would be my offical position, but I would think the breeder should know going forward, that if you want to race pigeons then you should purchase your bands from one of the National Organizations which sponsers and supports the racing system. These groups raise much of their operating funds by way of band sales. Trying to "save" 25 or 50 cents on a band may seem like a reasonable investment, if you only want to home homers for fun and maybe a show. But if you ever hope to compete in "real" race events, then your birds should be banded by an AU band, imho.

Maybe on the race truck, you could ship them as trainers. "Race" results would only be to compare to themselves, but it might be an option. At least everyone could see if they find their way home from the 100 race station ! 

Could have a "Special" race for the white homers vs the fantails. 

That way you might have a "Winning" white homer you could crown as a "Champion".


----------



## Big T

Flapdoodle said:


> When we were first kicking this around it was a one-loft race and we would accept any band. When I saw the number of birds, it made more sense to fly with or as my youngbird team. Before I even mentioned it in the forum I checked with the club secretary and he indicated that is no problem flying IF bands. He said the AU will allow non AU or foreign bands. He indicated I just needed to register them with the AU and pay $1.00 so they would be eligible.
> 
> While doing the first inventory I saw the NPA bands, and realized I hadn’t read or talked to anyone regarding the NPA bands specifically. I checked the rules, called the AU, and they do not recognize NPA bands even as foreign bands. At that point, I made Tony aware of the situation. The hope was the club and combine would just let me fly the birds knowing they would not be eligible for awards.
> 
> The combine race secretary indicated that birds without an approved band could not even be released with an AU race per rule 7.08 & 7.09
> 
> http://www.pigeon.org/racerules.htm
> 
> The issue he said is the NPA has 6 or 7 different size bands that are not as wide as AU or IF bands. A little larger band could be removed from one pigeon and put on another.
> 
> The situation stinks. I do not think it would be that big of deal to let the four birds race.
> 
> The birds are in the loft, the reason we all did this was to see how our birds did against others in the forum, talk a little trash, and have some fun. I think we can still do that. I hope to allocate the birds this weekend. I will start using the clock. *The 4 birds in question will get electronic bands like everyone else. Tony you will at least get an idea of how they do.* I can still send the birds on the truck once the races start. Trainers have nothing to do with the AU as it is a seprate release.
> 
> Sorry all for “*MY*” mistake, especially to you Tony.
> 
> This will turn out like the situation of that one bird you don’t get a band on in time. It ends up being the best bird in your loft that year that you can’t race.


So what you are saying is my white birds can still be clocked in before the other birds and I still get to talk a little smack before the official races. *I'm HAPPY!!!!* Let's drop this issue until next year's race. And I'll still pay my share to get a few laughs at Warren's expense. Or visa versa. 

Key point is, Our "First" Annual One Loft Race, we learn as we go. Lucky for you guys, my whites are good and good looking too. Suxs to be you.

LOL Tony


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

Big T said:


> So what you are saying is my white birds can still be clocked in before the other birds and I still get to talk a little smack before the official races. *I'm HAPPY!!!!* Let's drop this issue until next year's race. And I'll still pay my share to get a few laughs at Warren's expense. Or visa versa.
> 
> Key point is, Our "First" Annual One Loft Race, we learn as we go. Lucky for you guys, my whites are good and good looking too. Suxs to be you.
> 
> LOL Tony


Hey Tony !

If you are happy, then I am happy !

Maybe we can still get your whites on the trainer truck and have a little race with the fan tails. Get your feet wet a little bit, then if you do well on the trainer truck, then next year you can hitch a ride with the big boys.


----------



## Big T

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Hey Tony !
> 
> If you are happy, then I am happy !
> 
> Maybe we can still get your whites on the trainer truck and have a little race with the fan tails. Get your feet wet a little bit, then if you do well on the trainer truck, then next year you can hitch a ride with the big boys.


Mess with me and I'll fan your tail... So..... are you going to try to catch the same ride with the big boys... you know they gonna put you and your birds in the back.

Now wait on the next video...big boy.


----------



## conditionfreak

No one would want white racing pigeons, if they were not white. 

(There fellows. Argue that one).


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

conditionfreak said:


> No one would want white racing pigeons, if they were not white.
> 
> (There fellows. Argue that one).


 I think you are correct.....if they were say blue bars....who would want them ?


----------



## hillfamilyloft

If the whites are not in the running anymore, does that mean my one and only bird is the only bird with white on it? Is it even still around? I can not take the pressure. I don't want my bird being the only pigmentless hawk bait that counts for the big prize. I hope those other four whities get to run point for my bird. 

I still think they will do a number on a good number of birds in the loft. Even if they now have another excuse besides just being white. 

Randy


----------



## hillfamilyloft

I think next year I will breed me up one of those gribbles birds. Or maybe one of those red chuncks or pie plashy things. They say them birds ain't as good as them blue ones neither.


----------



## Flapdoodle

Not all that exciting this week, a long boring video. A couple of short tosses, the birds did group up with another 50 or so birds from another flyer while loft flying. It reminded me of an ameba as they flew. The group would stretch out and then group back up. They did that repeatedly. 

On the tosses, we had everyone back before the first toss. The 28 mile toss they came home as a group with five stragglers. One bird did not make it back from that toss. The count is 52 plus one with a bad wing (one of mine). I am not sure who is missing at this point. I hope to be able to allocate this weekend and update the inventory. 

The birds all look great, loft flying every am and pm, with a toss when I can get it in. I hope to get further up the hill this week.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3e7lmmLdGA0 

I hope to upgrade from the camera on the phone to get a little better quality video. I told my wife it is for family stuff, not for the birds so she is on board with the idea.


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

Flapdoodle said:


> Not all that exciting this week, a long boring video. A couple of short tosses, the birds did group up with another 50 or so birds from another flyer while loft flying. It reminded me of an ameba as they flew. The group would stretch out and then group back up. They did that repeatedly.
> 
> On the tosses, we had everyone back before the first toss. The 28 mile toss they came home as a group with five stranglers. One bird did not make it back from that toss. The count is 52 plus one with a bad wing (one of mine). I am not sure who is missing at this point. I hope to be able to allocate this weekend and update the inventory.
> 
> The birds all look great, loft flying every am and pm, with a toss when I can get it in. I hope to get further up the hill this week.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3e7lmmLdGA0
> 
> I hope to upgrade from the camera on the phone to get a little better quality video.* I told my wife it is for family stuff, not for the birds so she is on board with the idea*.


Now you are learning !!! If you think about it, there are all kinds of ways to upgade the loft and your birds "For the sake of the Family " !!! All you need to do, is think about things in a whole new way !! 

Vehicles to transport birds are in reality....'Safer vehicles for the kids"....an electronic clock......"Allows for more quality time with the kids"..........there must be a hundred different angles to this.


----------



## Big T

Man!!!! you can spot those NPA bands a mile away. I think it helps that their on the white birds leading the pack! 

Smart move on the camera, make it a family idea and the wife goes for it.

Gotta go talk to the wife,
Tony


----------



## conditionfreak

A couple of observations from the video.

I see you feed the peanuts "whole". I break mine up into 1/4's. It is a lot of work for me, but they seem to have a hard time with them whole. Seems to work for you though. Are they spanish peanuts?

I can't remember what my feral cross and my secret cross birds look like. You would think that they would stand out in that crowd of racing pigeons.  I believe they are both blue bars, so that makes it difficult.

If I had known how much videoing you were going to do, I would have sent something with distinguishable markings.

Oh well. I guess the only thing that matters are the results anyway. I'm shooting for second. How could I possibly beat Mrs. Smiths birds? Or is it Ms?

My wife says that next year she is going to enter a bird. But she has to breed one that the color matches the interior of the loft. (decorating is her "thing").


----------



## hillfamilyloft

I saw a BB running around the drinker. Must be your BB crossed with the feral. Ha Ha


----------



## conditionfreak

He was exercising. Getting ready for the season. He even skipped the meal to slim down. 

Smart bird tru dat!


----------



## Big T

conditionfreak said:


> A couple of observations from the video.
> 
> I see you feed the peanuts "whole". I break mine up into 1/4's. It is a lot of work for me, but they seem to have a hard time with them whole. Seems to work for you though. Are they spanish peanuts?


I put my peanuts in a ziplock bag and hit them with a hammer, takes two minutes.



conditionfreak said:


> I can't remember what my feral cross and my secret cross birds look like. You would think that they would stand out in that crowd of racing pigeons.  I believe they are both blue bars, so that makes it difficult.
> 
> If I had known how much videoing you were going to do, I would have sent something with distinguishable markings.


Remember, you are here to race not look good. (did I say that)



conditionfreak said:


> Oh well. I guess the only thing that matters are the results anyway. I'm shooting for second. How could I possibly beat Mrs. Smiths birds? Or is it Ms?


Sucking up to Warren will not get you free birds. Beating him will get him to trade. Something to think about.



conditionfreak said:


> My wife says that next year she is going to enter a bird. But she has to breed one that the color matches the interior of the loft. (decorating is her "thing").


Do what ever she want. Sleeping with wife is better than sleeping in loft. So sucking up to the wife is a smart thing. no matter what the guys at the bar tell you.

God Bless and I do hope you make second, ahead of Warren.


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

All jokes aside, I very much enjoy watching the progress of this "PT" One Loft Team !! Looking forward to seeing an inventory list, so I can see if any of the little womans pretty little birds are still there. I am pretty sure I spotted a silver, but not sure anymore !


----------



## hillfamilyloft

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> All jokes aside, I very much enjoy watching the progress of this "PT" One Loft Team !! Looking forward to seeing an inventory list, so I can see if any of the little womans pretty little birds are still there. I am pretty sure I spotted a silver, but not sure anymore !


Silver is almost white, isn't it?


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

hillfamilyloft said:


> Silver is almost white, isn't it?


Well..........er......uh......I don't know.....would have to see the actual bird on video....maybe......except that unlike most white race birds, this bird's parents didn't get lost on a 100 mile race !!


----------



## spirit wings

send the whites! send the whites! it ought to be interesting even if it is not official.


----------



## Big T

hillfamilyloft said:


> Silver is almost white, isn't it?


NOW THAT WAS FUNNY!!!!!!!!!! I agree with Warren, this has been fun.

Tony


----------



## Guest

i hope your whites go to the end wether its on record or not  they seem to be holding their own au if banded or not  leader of the pack lol


----------



## rackerman

LokotaLoft said:


> I think this is the only time that saying white powerrrrr would be ok lol


To funny.....................


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Mark Just let me know my BB splash is still in the loft. Just relieved it was not the bird circling the waterer or did not have two much "white" on it. For those who are interested it is the splash with the cap on its head and White Flights. It has Kahuna and Buzz bloodlines of mine that throw a bit of white in the form of splashes.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Man, you mean yall's birds ain't man enough to handle whole peanuts?  LOL.
I feed my spanish peanuts whole, they don't care.


----------



## conditionfreak

MaryOfExeter said:


> Man, you mean yall's birds ain't man enough to handle whole peanuts?  LOL.
> I feed my spanish peanuts whole, they don't care.


I have racing pigeons. Not seagulls. 

I concede that your hens are more manly than my hens. 

Seriously though. Many of my birds will eat whole spanish peanuts, but some will not. I want them all to have some so I break them down to smaller sizes.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

conditionfreak said:


> I have racing pigeons. Not seagulls.
> 
> I concede that your hens are more manly than my hens.
> 
> Seriously though. Many of my birds will eat whole spanish peanuts, but some will not. I want them all to have some so I break them down to smaller sizes.


Know a racer who the night before the longer races feeds crushed up peanuts. Says whole they do not metabolize quick enough so he crushes them up. Speeds up the digestion of so the energy from the fat hits just in time.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

hillfamilyloft said:


> Know a racer who the night before the longer races feeds crushed up peanuts. Says whole they do not metabolize quick enough so he crushes them up. Speeds up the digestion of so the energy from the fat hits just in time.


We've done that before. We also figured they'd digest more quickly, which would be good for the next morning.

But on any other day, I don't go through the trouble. And yes, conditionfreak, my hens are probably more manly. We prefer tomboys around here, rather than sissy girly-girls


----------



## Flapdoodle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avn4ePpbgis

Kind of a slow week: I did get in one toss at 40 miles. It is an area called Blue Canyon. The video does not do it justice. 

I pulled the trigger on a new camera, will see if I can figure it out. I wanted to get the birds allocated but I was short a few bands. They came in the mail so hopefully I can get that done this week and start using the clock. 

Make sure you check out and vote @ the pretty pigeon show.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f14/the-pretty-pigeon-contest-you-be-the-judge-45243.html

I did do an inventory and the bird that is missing is AU 2010 SPO 603, sorry about that Larry. 

As far as the peanuts, it takes one or two times for them to get use to them but then they do fine. I like the idea of using a plastic bag and hammer and breaking them up. I will give it a try. The issue with feeding them whole with a large group of birds is some birds get to many and some don’t get any. 

Hope everyone has a great week!


----------



## rackerman

Them Whites look pretty good! Seem to be 1st to trap too..... Nice video.


----------



## Xueoo

Nice updates on all the video's. They look real healthy in the "pretty" video. 

Well, since the birds are now in the loft, how about we tell what we sent? I'll start.

My two are Van Loon/Janssen nestmates. Real heavy in Van Loon blood originally out of Oak Haven Farms years back. The Janssen side goes back to a pair of direct Janssen grandchildren of the 019 cock that I received (second hand) also years back. I've been out of pigeons for a long time and these haven't raced on a clock for some time, but they have been trained out to over 600 miles and in all weather conditions, so they should do well in our race series with Flapdoodle.


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## SmithFamilyLoft

Flapdoodle said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avn4ePpbgis
> 
> Kind of a slow week: I did get in one toss at 40 miles. It is an area called Blue Canyon. The video does not do it justice.
> 
> I pulled the trigger on a new camera, will see if I can figure it out. I wanted to get the birds allocated but I was short a few bands. They came in the mail so hopefully I can get that done this week and start using the clock.
> 
> Make sure you check out and vote @ the pretty pigeon show.
> 
> http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f14/the-pretty-pigeon-contest-you-be-the-judge-45243.html
> 
> I did do an inventory and the bird that is missing is AU 2010 SPO 603, sorry about that Larry.
> 
> As far as the peanuts, it takes one or two times for them to get use to them but then they do fine. I like the idea of using a plastic bag and hammer and breaking them up. I will give it a try. The issue with feeding them whole with a large group of birds is some birds get to many and some don’t get any.
> 
> Hope everyone has a great week!


Are they starting to drop some feathers ? Your loft looks naturally "dark", just curious as to where you are in the moult. Do I understand correctly, that you will be flying these birds just like they were your own YB race team ? So there won't be a race, or a small series of races, but you may have birds that go to say 6+ races and the like ? Now I sort of wish I took this event a little more seriously. I am enjoying this process perhaps more then some other One Loft events I am in this year.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> I am enjoying this process perhaps more then some other One Loft events I am in this year.


I have to agree with you here. I sent 3 birds to the I-race and they have only done one inventory since I sent the birds. They have not sent any training info. I have no idea what is going on. Flap should run a one-loft race. This is the attention you wish all your test birds would get. I would love to have birds off my best pairs competing here. Nice to fly them in a competitive club and combine to test them out. Nothing better than racing every week.


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## hillfamilyloft

hillfamilyloft said:


> I would love to have birds off my best pairs competing here. Nice to fly them in a competitive club and combine to test them out. Nothing better than racing every week.


For those that do not know, I had "Ace in the Hole" send my birds this year. I had something hit my breeding loft and quarantined all my young birds but three to fly out of the same loft in Albuquerque. Those were out of another loft and went to the i-race. I did not want to run the chances of them spreading anything to the PT loft. My splash is a grandson of my best breeder though. 

Randy


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## hillfamilyloft

Xueoo said:


> Nice updates on all the video's. They look real healthy in the "pretty" video.
> 
> Well, since the birds are now in the loft, how about we tell what we sent? I'll start.


My bird was bred by ACE is off of "Buzz's Perfection" a bird I sent "Ace in the Hole" to breed from a few years back. He is a son of Buzz and Grandson of Kahuna. Buzz bred me a 300 mile winner and a bond winner. The Dam of "Buzz's Perfection" is a grand daughter of Scott McCallister's 2001 Snow Bird winner. The bloodlines you will find here are Janssen, Bob Kinney, Vic Miller. Another notable descendent is the "08" of Vern Crawley. This is the Bob Kinney bird obtained for the World of Wings. I have a handful of descendants from this bird that have bred me winners. The "08" bred a 15th for Vern in the Vegas Crapshoot and wins in Colorado races. 
The other side of the pedigree is a secret weapon.

Randy


----------



## hillfamilyloft

The white splash this family shows is just a bluff so you will think the bird is lesser of a flier. If you look really closely the white on my bird almost looks silver. Buzz will throw splash hens. One bred me my best young bird in 08. I have stocked two of the splash hens. The look quite like my bird #12 in the race.


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## MaryOfExeter

Looks like my breeding hen is related to the birds you sent.


The blue check I sent is a pure Sion. The sire is "Achiles" from Sky Lake. He's out of "Wenatchee Wonder" and "Miss Rosie". The dam is a Fenoyer Sion from Oshaben Loft.

The dirty blue bar I sent, is out of the same pair that bred my first winner two years ago. Dad is a McLaughlin SVR and mom is a Jan Aarden/Van Wonroy. She's a sister to Renee's (Lovebird Loft) IF Champ - "Skydancer".


----------



## Flapdoodle

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Are they starting to drop some feathers ? Your loft looks naturally "dark", just curious as to where you are in the moult. Do I understand correctly, that you will be flying these birds just like they were your own YB race team ? So there won't be a race, or a small series of races, but you may have birds that go to say 6+ races and the like ? Now I sort of wish I took this event a little more seriously. I am enjoying this process perhaps more then some other One Loft events I am in this year.


It seems the majority are growing in their fourth flight, you can see a few from the pretty pigeon video. Some of the birds are starting to drop some feathers, I promise in the video I am not trying to pluck them. I am not sure what I will do. I was thinking of locking them down for a week and they should really start to drop. For me it seems like when the sixth flight growing in is when the body moult is the heaviest. 

The plan is to race the birds as my race team. We have an A race and B race each week starting the last Saturday in August. 8 weeks of racing. The PT birds will go to all the races, I will divide them up based on clocking position from two training tosses with other lofts before the first race. Split the birds equally in both races. I will then use my birds to get to the 20 bird shipping limit. The rest will be trainers. 

Last year we started the races with 39 fliers in YB for the combine. About 600 birds in each race. The combine voted to increase the shipping limits from 15 to 20 birds. If I were going to guess, I would say we would have about 750 birds go to the first race. 

I am really enjoying the birds and making the video updates. We are looking good to this point and I am happy with where we are. We still have a lot of work to do. I hope that we will be competitive in the club and combine.


----------



## ace in the hole

hillfamilyloft said:


> My bird was bred by ACE is off of "Buzz's Perfection" a bird I sent "Ace in the Hole" to breed from a few years back.


*Hillfamilyloft's* Buzz's Perfection was bred with TG's Blue Magic. Buzz's Perfection's children and grand children have flown well with 1st place wins and many top 10% placements. TG's Blue Magic raced well as a young bird with 2nd and 3rd places in the club. This is her first year breeding. One of the two birds sent from this pair was lost wile the birds were being settled.

*I also sent two birds for **K2RMX.ROB* both are bluechecks.
The hen for this nest mate pair of young is also from *Hillfamilyloft*. See Randy, you have a better showing here than you thought. Her name is Blue Wonder. She is Wonder Miller, Engels and Silverado loft blood. she has produced some real good racers with the above mentioned "Buzz's Perfection". The sire to this pair of young is a Superschellens who as a young bird flew seven races placing 4th, 5th, 6th, 10th, 10th, 11th and 115th. Bred with another hen last year produced birds with top 10% placements.

The two birds I sent for myself are a nest mate pair of young from TG's Super16 & TG's Wild Blue (the TG stands for Top Gun Loft). They both flew great as young birds. Super16 had a 1st pace win and four top *5%* placements. Wild Blue had a 1st place win and four top *10%* placemants. This is their first year together. I could not tell for sure what bluebar was mine but the *red # 20 *in this pigeon show must be my 460.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Topgun birds hm? Funny how the birds with Carolina blood aren't coming from the one who actually lives in NC  LOL. I don't have any TG birds, but they look like they're pretty good.


----------



## ace in the hole

MaryOfExeter said:


> Topgun birds hm? Funny how the birds with Carolina blood aren't coming from the one who actually lives in NC  LOL.* I don't have any TG birds,* but they look like they're pretty good.



If you kept the Silver cock I sent you last year you have TG's in your loft.


----------



## conditionfreak

Ace, I wonder if any of the YB's you sent me are from these bloodlines?

I did not send any of them to the PT race.


----------



## ace in the hole

conditionfreak said:


> Ace, I wonder if any of the YB's you sent me are from these bloodlines?


 I did not put the band #s of your birds in my book . If I am right the birds you have are 456, 457, 462, 467, 468 and 469 ? Is that right?


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## conditionfreak

ace in the hole said:


> I did not put the band #s of your birds in my book . If I am right the birds you have are 456, 457, 462, 467, 468 and 469 ? Is that right?


Yep. Those are the ones.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

ace in the hole said:


> *I also sent two birds for **K2RMX.ROB* both are bluechecks.
> The hen for this nest mate pair of young is also from *Hillfamilyloft*. See Randy, you have a better showing here than you thought. Her name is Blue Wonder. She is Wonder Miller, Engels and Silverado loft blood. she has produced some real good racers with the above mentioned "Buzz's Perfection". The sire to this pair of young is a Superschellens who as a young bird flew seven races placing 4th, 5th, 6th, 10th, 10th, 11th and 115th. Bred with another hen last year produced birds with top 10% placements.


That makes me feel better. Blue Wonder, If I am not mistaken is off my Tiger and Big Bertha mating. Tiger is a Flor Engels bird from CBS birds. He is full brother to 2nd place Spirit of Co 200 mile bird from Vern. Big Bertha is off of the "08" bird I mentioned earlier. They have bred me winners, but are best in breeding me quality breeding birds. Big Bertha went AWOL a few years back, but Tiger is still breeding strong. Freddy off of this pair bred winners for ACE. A sister bred me my best young bird 09, second high points bird for Los Lobos RPC in ABQ.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

ace in the hole said:


> If you kept the Silver cock I sent you last year you have TG's in your loft.


Oh! Well see, I don't think you told me that before  Haha. That's great news though


----------



## ace in the hole

conditionfreak said:


> Ace, I wonder if any of the YB's you sent me are from these bloodlines?


No, they are not TGs.

You do have one bird # 462 a BB Houben/Houben/Janssen that I will tell you if this bird flies good or not I would try breeding it with your best Van Loon/Janssen or Houben.

The remaining five birds other than nest mates, if you get any that fly real good for you breed them back to each other. 456 & 457 are nest mates and 467 & 468 are nest mates.

As for the TG stock. Only the four birds for the PT race left my loft this year. I have four young here from Super16 & Wild Blue and four young here from Buzz's Perfection & Blue Magic. These young will be crossed back with each other for next years race season. I hope that from these breedings will come my next *ACE IN THE HOLE! * 

Ace


----------



## Guest

ace in the hole said:


> No, they are not TGs.
> 
> You do have one bird # 462 a BB Houben/Houben/Janssen that I will tell you if this bird flies good or not I would try breeding it with your best Van Loon/Janssen or Houben.
> 
> The remaining five birds other than nest mates, if you get any that fly real good for you breed them back to each other. 456 & 457 are nest mates and 467 & 468 are nest mates.
> 
> As for the TG stock. Only the two birds for the PT race left my loft this year. I have four young here from Super16 & Wild Blue and four young here from Buzz's Perfection & Blue Magic. These young will be crossed back with each other for next years race season. I hope that from these breedings will come my next *ACE IN THE HOLE! *
> 
> Ace


Sounds like you will be having the A-Team there soon..coming to a race club near youuuuu!!


----------



## jpsnapdy

Flapdoodle said:


> It seems the majority are growing in their fourth flight, you can see a few from the pretty pigeon video. Some of the birds are starting to drop some feathers, I promise in the video I am not trying to pluck them. I am not sure what I will do. I was thinking of locking them down for a week and they should really start to drop. For me it seems like when the sixth flight growing in is when the body moult is the heaviest.


It seemed to me that when they are growing their fifth, one should not push them hard. Maybe I'm wrong there ? Some top flyers in the european races say they don't even look at the state of the moult in Young Birds. The only condition they don't send them is if they have dropped two flights at a time. 
When the 10th has grown above half its length, they are unbeatable, just try it out.
Best of luck to you all. I'm following all this with great interest, and would certainly join the PT One Loft Race if I were living in the States, but I don't even have a loft at this time due to professional relocation.
Would you guys accept to post the updated lists of birds on PT, I sorta got some favorites from the PRETTY video (with the numbers from the video of course)?
God bless,
JPS


----------



## Flapdoodle

jpsnapdy said:


> It seemed to me that when they are growing their fifth, one should not push them hard. Maybe I'm wrong there ? Some top flyers in the european races say they don't even look at the state of the moult in Young Birds. The only condition they don't send them is if they have dropped two flights at a time.
> When the 10th has grown above half its length, they are unbeatable, just try it out.
> JPS


They guy that taught me the most about the sport had the same understanding, a young bird reaches top condition when the last flight is about half grown. 

As far as pushing them we are taking it pretty slow, I do run all the birds out of the loft every am and pm but they are pretty much free to trap anytime they want after they leave the loft, other then that a couple of short tosses a week. 

I won't send birds that have dropped two flights at the same time (same wing) or birds that are in a heavy head moult.


----------



## Flapdoodle

*weekly video*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rPsamfAEHE

Nothing really to report. It has been over 100 the past couple of days. We had some unusually cool weather the past two months, which has been nice. The birds of course do not want to fly in the evenings very long at all when it is hot. I wait to release them until just before the sunsets when it is a little cooler. 

They did meet up with that other group loft flying again. They trapped in three groups. 15 in the first group, 10 minutes later 29 more, 10 minutes after that the last 9 birds trapped. 

Two short tosses this week. Both were trips I was making so brought the birds along for the ride. The first toss was about a mile further up the road from Blue Canyon, maybe 42 miles at the Nyack truck stop on Hwy 80. The second was in Nevada City, which is not on the line of flight, but North of the loft about 40 miles. You can hear comments from some of the guys that I mountain bike with about the birds. They heckle me good about keeping pigeons, some people just do not get it. 

I am biking again next Saturday, about 60 miles from the loft (along the line of flight) and will bring the birds. Most of my training will be like this, places I am already going and will bring the birds along. 

Most the guys don’t really start to train the birds until the third or fourth week in July. I did talk to another flyer about the possibility of getting in on a training truck the first toss would be Blue Canyon, which our birds have already done. I am not sure if we will do it or not but will see. 

I have not been able to meet up with our race secretary yet to allocate the birds. I hope that we can get on the same page this week or next.


----------



## Matt Bell

LOL, typical buddies, I know how that works. Do you use a dog whistle of some type for them to trap, thought I heard you blow it twice for that last group of 9, just curious.


----------



## jpsnapdy

Flapdoodle said:


> They guy that taught me the most about the sport had the same understanding, a young bird reaches top condition when the last flight is about half grown.
> 
> As far as pushing them we are taking it pretty slow, I do run all the birds out of the loft every am and pm but they are pretty much free to trap anytime they want after they leave the loft, other then that a couple of short tosses a week.
> 
> I won't send birds that have dropped two flights at the same time (same wing) or birds that are in a heavy head moult.


Hi Flap,
I can see from the videos that you are doing it just right. For the "pushing" part I only meant the time when the 5th flight is about to come out & upto the time it is half grown, some birds seem to be having some discomfort or pain in the wing at that time when being handled but not very sure about that. What I did was only let them fly around the loft but didn't toss those.
I love the videos. The birds look great, spirited, and in excellent health ! You are doing great !
God bless & Cheers,
JPS


----------



## Flapdoodle

Matt Bell said:


> LOL, typical buddies, I know how that works. Do you use a dog whistle of some type for them to trap, thought I heard you blow it twice for that last group of 9, just curious.


You had to call me on it. I don't know if anyone noticed in all the videos I don't signal for the birds to trap. Most mornings, even saturday race mornings I am not there when the birds trap. I try to be there if I can but I have three out of five kids playing soccer in the fall. Saturday when the birds come back from a race I am not even around. During the week on most training tosses and even loft flying I don't see the birds trap. I go to work and don't get back to the loft until the evening. Electronic clocks are great... and the birds don't seem to mind. I just need to get the team allocated.


----------



## Big T

I noticed Warren's bird was in the group of nine, while my whites were already trapped.

Tony


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

Flapdoodle said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rPsamfAEHE
> 
> Nothing really to report. It has been over 100 the past couple of days. We had some unusually cool weather the past two months, which has been nice. The birds of course do not want to fly in the evenings very long at all when it is hot. I wait to release them until just before the sunsets when it is a little cooler.
> 
> They did meet up with that other group loft flying again. They trapped in three groups. 15 in the first group, 10 minutes later 29 more, 10 minutes after that the last 9 birds trapped.
> 
> *Two short tosses this week*. Both were trips I was making so brought the birds along for the ride. The first toss was about a mile further up the road from Blue Canyon, maybe 42 miles at the Nyack truck stop on Hwy 80. The second was in Nevada City, which is not on the line of flight, but North of the loft about 40 miles. You can hear comments from some of the guys that I mountain bike with about the birds. They heckle me good about keeping pigeons, some people just do not get it.
> 
> I am biking again next Saturday, about *60 miles *from the loft (along the line of flight) and will bring the birds. Most of my training will be like this, places I am already going and will bring the birds along.
> 
> Most the guys don’t really start to train the birds until the third or fourth week in July. I did talk to another flyer about the possibility of getting in on a training truck the first toss would be Blue Canyon, which our birds have already done. I am not sure if we will do it or not but will see.
> 
> I have not been able to meet up with our race secretary yet to allocate the birds. I hope that we can get on the same page this week or next.


Been watching you and trying to stay ahead of you....as my Loft Manager smirked today and said....'It's called to far...too fast." ....that is, in reference to my 65.65 Mile toss this AM. It is now 3 Hours...and 3 minutes and no birds. 

So, you just keep doing what you are doing, and don't let the idea of hundreds of people watching your every move and then perhaps giving you their pointers. 

As for me and my methods today....I would say, don't try this at home folks, this is fer the professionals. Might just turn out, that most of my fun and excitement this year may have to be races such as this one, where my birds have a chance now, due to some decent management !! Personally, I am thinking of firing myself today ! 

Keep up the good work. And no point pulling a Warren, do what you can to ensure the most number can make the 1st race.


----------



## mr squeaks

Loved your last video, Flapdoodle!

Wonder how that last one to trap in the nine will do in a race. Looks like he was takin' his good ole time to trap! 

Your buddy's comments were a riot! Obviously, not pigeon racers! Mating, indeed!! Kinda hard in the air flyin' fast!! ROFL 

Keep up the good work! You live in a beautiful area...

Love and Hugs

Shi and MR. Squeaks, who was watching avidly!


----------



## Flapdoodle

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Keep up the good work. And no point pulling a Warren, do what you can to ensure the most number can make the 1st race.


I don't need to pull a “Warren” when I am pulling “Flapdoodles” left and right... It is called censorship. You guys see what I want you to see. I just edit the video or don’t film when I pull a Flapdoodle…


----------



## Big T

Flapdoodle said:


> I don't need to pull a “Warren” when I am pulling “Flapdoodles” left and right... It is called censorship. You guys see what I want you to see. I just edit the video or don’t film when I pull a Flapdoodle…


Smart It's your loft and you will play when you want to!!!
From what I see you are doing a great job. Focus less on the Flapdoodles, and focus more on the fact you have only lost one bird.

By the way, isn't it time to pay?

Tony


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

Flapdoodle said:


> I don't need to pull a “Warren” when I am pulling *“Flapdoodles”* left and right... It is called censorship. You guys see what I want you to see. I just edit the video or don’t film when I pull a Flapdoodle…


 I see your point....besides....*“Flapdoodles”* does have a certain ring...it sort of just rolls right off the tongue.


----------



## Flapdoodle

*First bad toss*

There is some unwritten rule in the sport, you can't have favorites, if you do that is the bird that will not come back. Only one toss this week, about 45 miles, most the birds were home before me, out of 53 sent only 49 were in the loft that night when I locked them up. Two that stood out as missing were my favorite ( based on color ) #7 the grizzle from our show, also I noticed one of our whites. The next morning after loft flying we had 50 birds, the one that showed up was my grizzle, two puncture wounds on his chest, our first hawk attack survivor. I think he will make it but he most likely won't race. We are down three other birds, I O U an inventory... Hopefully tomorrow AM... I hope everyone has a great 4th of July, sorry no video this week.


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## MaryOfExeter

Well now I'm nervous. I hope none of the missing birds were TRC banded!


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

Flapdoodle said:


> There is some unwritten rule in the sport, you can't have favorites, if you do that is the bird that will not come back. Only one toss this week, about 45 miles, most the birds were home before me, out of 53 sent only 49 were in the loft that night when I locked them up. Two that stood out as missing were my favorite ( based on color ) #7 the grizzle from our show, also I noticed one of our whites. The next morning after loft flying we had 50 birds, the one that showed up was my grizzle, two puncture wounds on his chest, our first hawk attack survivor. I think he will make it but he most likely won't race. We are down three other birds, I O U an inventory... Hopefully tomorrow AM... I hope everyone has a great 4th of July, sorry no video this week.


Well, it is July, it is getting hot.....starting to be a bit more like work. Get down the road another 25 miles or so, and we will start to seperate more of the wheat from the chaff. At 75 to 100 miles, we begin to see who might have a future as a young race bird, and which ones may have been better off in a show career or a wedding release business.........we shall see.


----------



## conditionfreak

"which ones may have been better off in a show career or a wedding release business"

Ha Ha Good one.

After seeing the beauty contest video, I see that your birds (oops, I mean your wife's birds) are almost white anyway, Warren. If you keep mating up those white flights and splashes together, pretty soon you will have a very very good wedding release business potential.

Ha Ha

I just hope that hawks don't like to eat the prettiest pigeons, over the so-so looking pigeons.


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## SmithFamilyLoft

conditionfreak said:


> "which ones may have been better off in a show career or a wedding release business"
> 
> Ha Ha Good one.
> 
> After seeing the beauty contest video, I see that your birds (oops, I mean your wife's birds) are almost white anyway, Warren. If you keep mating up those white flights and splashes together, pretty soon you will have a very very good wedding release business potential.
> 
> Ha Ha
> 
> I just hope that hawks don't like to eat the prettiest pigeons, over the so-so looking pigeons.


Some of our readers and posters, are just a bit to sharp for me..........I guess I am busted. Maybe for same reasons that a "Deb Ganus" may enter some birds in some races somewhere,...... my wife also just up and decided to enter this PT event ?....No Hardly......just trying to minimize my embarrassment.....when mine are among the first to get lost. 

It's great when you win 1st Place and forty minutes ahead of the crowd, like I did in a big race in 2007....but what about all the races that I "Lost" in between those rare, maybe once in a life time events. ?

Truth is, the birds I sent to this event, I did not like them. I would not have "invested" say $425 for a One Loft Race entry fee on these birds. On paper, the pedigrees would be very "Pretty". Multiple prize winner parents in some cases, along with Internationally Known Grand Sires and/or Uncles as National Champions.

Typically on both sides of Pedigree. $10,000+ kinds of birds.....and these are...IMHO....some of the "duds" from this years production. The brothers and sisters of these PT birds, I "selected" as more likely the racing champs....and so sent them to the Winners Cup and the Flamingo International. I will be happy if these birds simply make it through these series of races, and maybe get in the clock sometime. 

The flights and splashes are now a problem for me. It was not my desire to produce them, combined with a lot of inbreeding...it's just that three of my Top Foundation Sires are Blue Bar White Flights, (example : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16HoxelCeNY ) in some cases four or five main flights. In one case, I have 8 of his sons in the breeding loft, all have some a little white here and there, and white flights. Then their are the hens, 4 hens to the sire with 8 cocks in the breeding loft....no that is just one of the breeding losts...then there are the Blue Check Pied......they have taken over...I suppose, in theory, if I chose to, I could begin to select more on color, and either attempt to breed out some of the white, or attempt to actually breed some more white into the family line ? Up to this point, I have bred for one thing, and one thing only......racing ability over a series of races, the more races in a single season, the better. Looking for that steady bird, 4 or 5+ diplomas won in a single season. White at this point, does not seem to be a factor. Maybe a small flock of those with that weird blue, grey, white color pattern, when in a blue sky with some clouds, maybe it makes it a bit more harder to catch ?


----------



## ace in the hole

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Some of our readers and posters, are just a bit to sharp for me..........I guess I am busted. Maybe for same reasons that a "Deb Ganus" may enter some birds in some races somewhere,...... my wife also just up and decided to enter this PT event ?....No Hardly......*just trying to minimize my embarrassment*..... when mine are among the first to get lost.
> 
> It's great when you win 1st Place and forty minutes ahead of the crowd, like I did in a big race in 2007....but what about all the races that I "Lost" in between those rare, maybe once in a life time events. ?
> 
> Truth is, the birds I sent to this event, I did not like them. I would not have "invested" say $425 for a One Loft Race entry fee on these birds. On paper, the pedigrees would be very "Pretty". Multiple prize winner parents in some cases, along with Internationally Known Grand Sires and/or Uncles as National Champions.


Hay Warren, You sent birds to this race just like the rest of us. You should own up to them and stop doing this dance. 

By the way, we all sent our duds to. 

Ace


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

ace in the hole said:


> Hay Warren, You sent birds to this race just like the rest of us. You should own up to them and stop doing this dance.
> 
> By the way, we all sent our duds to.
> 
> Ace


Ever hear of having your cake and eating it to ?


----------



## bloodlines_365

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Some of our readers and posters, are just a bit to sharp for me..........I guess I am busted. Maybe for same reasons that a "Deb Ganus" may enter some birds in some races somewhere,...... my wife also just up and decided to enter this PT event ?....No Hardly......just trying to minimize my embarrassment.....when mine are among the first to get lost.
> 
> It's great when you win 1st Place and forty minutes ahead of the crowd, like I did in a big race in 2007....but what about all the races that I "Lost" in between those rare, maybe once in a life time events. ?
> 
> Truth is, the birds I sent to this event, I did not like them. I would not have "invested" say $425 for a One Loft Race entry fee on these birds. On paper, the pedigrees would be very "Pretty". Multiple prize winner parents in some cases, along with Internationally Known Grand Sires and/or Uncles as National Champions.
> 
> Typically on both sides of Pedigree. $10,000+ kinds of birds.....and these are...IMHO....some of the "duds" from this years production. The brothers and sisters of these PT birds, I "selected" as more likely the racing champs....and so sent them to the Winners Cup and the Flamingo International. I will be happy if these birds simply make it through these series of races, and maybe get in the clock sometime.
> 
> The flights and splashes are now a problem for me. It was not my desire to produce them, combined with a lot of inbreeding...it's just that three of my Top Foundation Sires are Blue Bar White Flights, (example : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16HoxelCeNY ) in some cases four or five main flights. In one case, I have 8 of his sons in the breeding loft, all have some a little white here and there, and white flights. Then their are the hens, 4 hens to the sire with 8 cocks in the breeding loft....no that is just one of the breeding losts...then there are the Blue Check Pied......they have taken over...I suppose, in theory, if I chose to, I could begin to select more on color, and either attempt to breed out some of the white, or attempt to actually breed some more white into the family line ? Up to this point, I have bred for one thing, and one thing only......racing ability over a series of races, the more races in a single season, the better. Looking for that steady bird, 4 or 5+ diplomas won in a single season. White at this point, does not seem to be a factor. Maybe a small flock of those with that weird blue, grey, white color pattern, when in a blue sky with some clouds, maybe it makes it a bit more harder to catch ?


boy ohhh.... boy...... i like the way this guy thinks! so when you guys get beat means you got beating by some of warren so called dudes birds...thats so depressing if it happens....


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## conditionfreak

So Warren. If I understand you correctly. Your "wife" sent siblings of "your" entries into the Winners Cup and the Flamingo International, to this PT competition?

Now I do understand the "having your cake and eating it to" old saying. 

P.S. Flapdoodle, that is a real shame about the hawk hurting your grizzle. In the video contest, I and many others voted for that one. Not only because of its coloration, but it looked very robust and capable. Hard to tell from a video and the basket is the only way to know for sure, but that bird looks formidable. A shame.


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## Flapdoodle

*Mia*

Has anyone ever caught a hawk and tried to train it to avoid pigeons by putting a dead pigeon around its neck, basically having the hawk get disgusted with pigeons? Just a thought... 

On July 2nd I released 53 pigeons, 3 never made it back from that toss.... NPA 3251, AVC 1003, & AUB 332. Sorry Happy & Big T, and to me as the last one was mine. It stinks to lose birds. I wish we had some crazy miniature camera so we could recreate what happened. I actually had two birds return from that toss that were hit by hawks. Both were mine and should still be able to race.

I updated the inventory. If you want you could bookmark this page once bird are allocated I am going to keep results of the tosses online.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AhvvsnG-54p4dG9wTlQ2alA4ay0zR0t4N2YzaTZZenc&hl=en 

I am meeting the secretary of the club to allocate the birds July 20th. 

I had a sketchy toss this morning. I released from just about the top of the hill @ 7,300 feet. When I got home only 6 birds were in the loft. When I left home at 10:00 three hours after the toss we had 17 birds. Keep you fingers crossed that we have more birds in the loft when I get home. If I see more evidence of hawk related problems I may bail out on tossing them up the sierras and go opposite the line of flight until I can get them mixed with three or four other flyers. Basically share the wealth with other flyers and throw more birds at the problem. I will make some visits this weekend to see if others are having similar issues. 

Anyway, I have video of last week and this weeks tosses. I will work on getting up this weekend for those that care to watch. Have a great weekend.


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## Xueoo

Hawks are just part of the game. Sucks to lose birds, but, that's how it goes...


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## Guest

hope the rest found their way back to the loft soon after this day was over


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## Flapdoodle

When I got home I had 25 birds in the loft. Right around 5:00 pm, real hot around 98. As I left the loft the 26th bird landed and trapped. When I locked down the loft @ 9:00 I had 30 birds, I released 48.  I would like to think we will have 18 birds on the loft when I wake up in the morning. A kid can dream right... I will keep you posted


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## Xueoo

You think the molt could have something to do with it? That along with the high heat may affect their will.


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## SmithFamilyLoft

Flapdoodle said:


> When I got home I had 25 birds in the loft. Right around 5:00 pm, real hot around 98. As I left the loft the 26th bird landed and trapped. When I locked down the loft @ 9:00 I had 30 birds, I released 48.  I would like to think we will have 18 birds on the loft when I wake up in the morning. A kid can dream right... I will keep you posted


First couple of little smashes...we seperated the boys from the girls....and now we are seperating the Men from the boys. Soon, we will be narrowing it down to the real racing pigeons, from the cute little homing pigeons. 

Is there a list of the MIA's and AWOL types yet ?


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## Flapdoodle

Xueoo said:


> You think the molt could have something to do with it? That along with the high heat may affect their will.


I think the molt could have something to do with it. I know some folks don't toss or fly the birds when growing in the 4,5,6 flights. I have not held them back in the past. This toss was only 55 miles, some of the birds were home before me. I am not sure what to do about the molt. I posted what flights the birds are growing in...

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AhvvsnG-54p4dG9wTlQ2alA4ay0zR0t4N2YzaTZZenc&hl=en#gid=0

Two questions for those following this post 

#1 Do you hold your birds back while growing in 4,5,6? 

#2 Where are you as far as the molt goes with your own birds?

Out of the eight birds that beat me home today 6 were mine, one was LCC 460, the other was SFL 241. I will try to get another inventory in the AM and figure out who is AWOL


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## luckyloft

It seems like this happens to me at least once every young bird season!Every time it has been from a release point they have been to before or from a short distance.We really dont know what happens once they are in the air, could be hawks or the moult but it seems to me for some reason at some point they just bust up and go there on way.When it has happened to me most filter in the next couple of days and some never make it home.But of course it just could be MY birds.It dont hold mine back during training due to the moult but I would not send them on a 100 mile race.Years ago when it happened the first time to me I called a old timer in my club because I thought I had lost my entire team on a 20 mile toss.He said dont worry most would make it back and it was good for them to come in by themselves not just following the bird that knew where he was going.He said just check the ones that come in late.If they look Ok not worn out they would be OK. Thanks for all the hard work. Jeff


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## SmithFamilyLoft

Flapdoodle said:


> I think the molt could have something to do with it. I know some folks don't toss or fly the birds when growing in the 4,5,6 flights. I have not held them back in the past. This toss was only 55 miles, some of the birds were home before me. I am not sure what to do about the molt. I posted what flights the birds are growing in...
> 
> http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AhvvsnG-54p4dG9wTlQ2alA4ay0zR0t4N2YzaTZZenc&hl=en#gid=0
> 
> Two questions for those following this post
> 
> #1 Do you hold your birds back while growing in 4,5,6?
> 
> #2 Where are you as far as the molt goes with your own birds?
> 
> Out of the eight birds that beat me home today 6 were mine, one was LCC 460, the other was SFL 241. I will try to get another inventory in the AM and figure out who is AWOL


 This year, I returned to the traditional "Darkening" system. My birds have already gone through a complete body molt, but they have retained all of their flight feathers. The birds look and feel like yearlings, and none of this growing in 4,5, or 6 flight business, (what did you do ? Cut them off ?). It's only July, but they are ready for business. 

Since we don't really know how they find their way back home, I contend we will never really know why a bird fails to return home. We can look to hawks, to the molt, to sun spots, to super secret military communications. They all sort of place the blame on some external thing we really can't control anyway. 

Bottom line is, for whatever reason, some birds just did not have the breeding to get the job done. Birds out of certain pairs, for whatever "reason", appear to have been born with some special "luck" and they are home and in the loft. These "lucky" birds, somehow manage to have offspring which also carry this "luck"....and thus we have a genetic line, which somehow not only figures out where home is, but get there in good time...and that is how we build a winning line. 

No use or point, IMHO.... in fretting over those pigeons which decide to go AWOL with a baby 55 mile toss. Chances are, they came from stock better prepared for some kind of beauty contest, then a racing event. (Super Duper pedigrees and strain names...not withstanding).

At least, this is how I deal with the disappointment of birds not returning. One can sit around and cry, but that never really helped me much, and besides, the neighbors already think I am some kind of nut...so running around my back yard bawling, never brought me any luck. A few involuntary commitments perhaps...but no birds magically returning home.....

Just keep doing the basic things you always have done with your birds....you can't run a special ed type class geared towards the slowest in the class, in order to get those white pigeons to keep up.......or you might never get to the 1st race station.


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## Flapdoodle

8 birds on the roof of the loft waiting for breakfast... 12 still AWOL. I will do an inventory tomorrow AM. The birds that are here look good... except for one bird LCC 461, either hit by a hawk or flew into something. Maybe there is a pair of hawks/falcons trying to teach some young ones how to eat at the expense of our birds, they miss and the wounded make it home. Who knows?

I will get an inventory in the morning...


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## MaryOfExeter

I don't hold mine back from training due to the moult unless they look pretty bad. When they moult out those two middle tail feathers, that can really put a strain on them, but otherwise they should be okay.


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## SmithFamilyLoft

Flapdoodle said:


> I think the molt could have something to do with it. I know some folks don't toss or fly the birds when growing in the 4,5,6 flights. I have not held them back in the past. This toss was only 55 miles, some of the birds were home before me. I am not sure what to do about the molt. I posted what flights the birds are growing in...
> 
> http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AhvvsnG-54p4dG9wTlQ2alA4ay0zR0t4N2YzaTZZenc&hl=en#gid=0
> 
> Two questions for those following this post
> 
> #1 Do you hold your birds back while growing in 4,5,6?
> 
> #2 Where are you as far as the molt goes with your own birds?
> 
> *Out of the eight birds that beat me home today 6 were mine, one was LCC 460, the other was SFL 241*. I will try to get another inventory in the AM and figure out who is AWOL


Yeah Baby !!! I told the wife that 241 looked pretty sharp !!!! 


.........

Don't know how I missed this up date......yep, I remember now...I said yes, it might be a dud...but I think I see something in the bird's eye...which might mean a Champ !!! Yep, I knew it was a good one....yes sir !! Did I ever tell you I trained my wife Karen here in picking the good ones for races ?


PS. After writing the above and posting it....I thought I should say, as there may be some readers who miss it.....there was a big fat tongue in my cheek when I wrote the above. My head, is not nearly as swollen as some of you might think. Just trying to enjoy this event to the fullest. Just hope to see some birds make it to the first race like everyone else.


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## Flapdoodle

3 more wanted a late breakfast, we are up to 41, still out 9. Ace your bird should be fine, I have some video but can't get the computer and camera on the same page.


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## ace in the hole

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Yeah Baby !!! I told the wife that 241 looked pretty sharp !!!!
> 
> 
> .........
> 
> Don't know how I missed this up date......yep, I remember now...I said yes, it might be a dud...but I think I see something in the bird's eye...which might mean a Champ !!! Yep, I knew it was a good one....yes sir !! Did I ever tell you I trained my wife Karen here in picking the good ones for races ?
> 
> 
> PS. After writing the above and posting it....I thought I should say, as there may be some readers who miss it.....there was a big fat tongue in my cheek when I wrote the above. My head, is not nearly as swollen as some of you might think. Just trying to enjoy this event to the fullest. Just hope to see some birds make it to the first race like everyone else.


Warren, we all know what really happened. My *LCC 460 *led your SFL 241's way home while *LCC 461 *played blocker for them and took the hawk hit to save the other birds.

I have been breeding these birds to race as a team and to do what ever it takes for one of them to win the race. That not only includes taking a hawk hit but also taking out the competition if nessesary.

Ace


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## conditionfreak

Ha Ha. Yea Ace. Maybe that is why "some" send four birds to race against everyone elses two birds. Because they are trained to sacrifice themselves for their team mates to win.

Unfortunately three of the six I obtain from you, have sacrificed themselves for the team, here. I'm really sad about it. But the three remaining are strong and I can count on them coming home.

I hope that my pretty bird/s can befriend your birds that Flapdoodle has, and yours will take the hits and save mine.

Can't leave you out Warren. Gotta swing a zing your way also: I see that my "pretty" birds, that have feral blood in them. Have managed to survive the boys from men seperation thing. Here's hoping that they survive the men from racing pigeons thing.  Two against four is tough though, but hey. Them's the rules. (I made that word up, "them's).  (of course flapdoodle could notify me that mine are missing at any moment) 

All trash talking aside. Ace, I really liked your birds but I am having a hard time this year. I haven't told anyone on here yet, but I broke both of my arms two weeks ago. It was a lawn mower/hillside, mini-stroke accident (they are guessing about the mini-stroke as they can find no other reason, after doing every test in the book on me). I had ultra sounds of my heart and neck veins. CT scans of my head. All kinds of stuff. They are guessing about the mini stroke because my left eye was dilated and my right was not. Plus, just before it happened, I had a problem with my left hand not being able to hold onto a bottle of juice drink.

I have a broken elbow, a broken/torn rotator cuff, and another broken bone, all told.

But hey. I'm doing good despite all of that. Believe it or not. I look at it this way. It could have been worse. I have no residual effects from the supposed mini-stroke (if I had one). But it sure is hell training the birds. You should see me catching them. I have to do it at night time.

I have almost written off this years young bird season, but not quite yet. I have three birds in the GNEO competition up near Cleveland, and other than that. That and this PT competition may be my only pigeon fun this year.

Really enjoying this. I'm gonna start entering the big one lofts in another two years or so, if all goes according to plan. I have obtained some good prospective breeders this year. Birds that won. Not birds that just have good pedigrees or were bred for stock.

But, time will tell. (if I don't die mowing the lawn)  Heck, I'm still a young man, sort of.


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## SmithFamilyLoft

conditionfreak said:


> ....... Plus, just before it happened, *I had a problem with my left hand not being able to hold onto a bottle of juice drink.*
> I have a broken elbow, a broken/torn rotator cuff, and another broken bone, all told.
> 
> 
> I have almost written off this years young bird season, but not quite yet. I have three birds in the GNEO competition up near Cleveland, and other than that. That and this PT competition may be my only pigeon fun this year.....
> 
> 
> 
> But, time will tell. (if I don't die mowing the lawn)......


Now that sounds like you had some trip !! I have had similar type problems, but I never tried to claim it was some juice from a sippy cup. Ya know, one should not drink and drive....well there are people out there, that should not drink and walk.....sometimes you might fall down the loft steps...or even fall up the steps and then face down into the loft. Seriously sorry to hear of strokes...even little ones. I have that condition where you sometimes wake up in strange places, and don't remember how you got there. Nothing like waking up to fresh pigeon poo splashing on your face, and you don't even remember going into the loft !  Yes, sir...watch out for that "juice" ! 
(Thank Goodness I am Right handed)


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## Flapdoodle

Conditionfreak... I would lay off the juice. Maybe quit mowing the lawn, get some goats. Hope you are recovering well. If it helps at all both your birds are in the loft. 

3 more made it home for dinner last night. That gives us 44 total birds in the loft. 6 MIA birds from this last toss:

AVC 1001
I 18799
LCC 466
SPO 610
NPA 3249
AUB 319

11 total MIA

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AhvvsnG-54p4dG9wTlQ2alA4ay0zR0t4N2YzaTZZenc&hl=en#gid=0


As far as the videos, the computer doesn’t like the format the camera uses, so I have had to convert the file type. I downloaded a software program that does the conversion. I had a 30 day trial which has expired. I will hopefully get some time to take a look at it and see if it is worth purchasing.


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## MaryOfExeter

Wooh! I'm very relieved to see mine and Jeff's birds still hanging in there.

On the other hand, holy cow conditionfreak! Sounds like you're really falling apart over there  It also sounds like you've caught your problems from my dad, haha. A few years ago he also had what they called a mini stroke, but he could tell what was going on. All I know is he went in his room, came back out dressed, and when we asked where he was going, he said "To the hospital, I'm having a stroke"  So me and mom freaked out while he proceeded to drive himself there. Neither of us had the option of driving him due to me being too young and her being disabled - but they do have ambulances for a reason  He made it there okay, but had to wait in the ER for like an hour before they even aknowledged his existance.
More recently he's had surgery on both shoulders due to torn rotator cuffs. So I know you have got to be in a lot of pain to have that AND broken bones.


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## ace in the hole

Hang in there *Conditionfreak *. They say "what dosen't kill ya makes ya stronger". You must be getting to be one strong SOB. Can I say SOB on here? Gee, I hope so!

And

*Flapdoodle*, don't right those six birds off yet. You may get some comming in over the next few days.

You did your job. We'll just have to see if they can do theirs.

Ace


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## pattersonk2002

*mia*

I belive my MIA was a hen and I am going with ACE, she will be in the loft tonight. >Kevin


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## Big T

Conditionfreak, all kidding aside, take care of yourself. We do not always agree but I enjoy your viewpoint and insight. I'm also getting a laugh at the thought of you typing with casts on. We know your tough, you old cop you, just quit trying to prove it.

Two pretty white birds are now lost and no jokes yet, you guys are slipping.

I do hope more return, but regardless flapdoodle, you are doing an outstanding job.

Thanks,
Tony


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## conditionfreak

Ha Ha. It actually was apple juice. I do not drink and have never drank alcohol. Ha Ha.

I don't make light of pigeons being lost. Even white ones. Mine could be next. Although I do appreciate it when someone elses bird sacrifices itself for "the team".

Yes, I am falling apart it seems. I am probably the healthiest broken and sick person you could ever meet. I refuse to accept that I had a mini stroke and think that I passed out due to the stress of wondering if my entries in the PT race, will embarrass me and lose to white birds, or to a slightly lesser extent, lose to Warrens almost white birds.  If I lose, I want to lose to Ace, Big T, Xueoo or even Mary (wait, that might be embarrassing also. A GIRL). 

Luckily I type about 80 words per minute (wpm) when healthy. So I am able to still type these long winded postings okay now, but of course a lot slower. Nothing much else to do right now.

If you think that typing and catching pigeons with two broken arms and one messed up shoulder is funny. You should keep in mind that I have to wear a mask in my lofts, due to pigeon lung disease. You should have seen the look on the ER nurses face when she asked my wife what I was allergic to and she told her pigeons and wasp stings. She asked my wife how we knew I was allergic to pigeons and she told her "because he has a hundred of them". The nurse repled "why do you have pigeons if you are allergic to them?" I answered "because I ain't right in the head". 

But in my defense, the CT scan of my head found no abnormalities there. 

Of all the problems I currently have, the torn rotator cuff is the most painful. The elbow didn't hurt at all really. Only when I did certain things.

I never in my life have taken a pain medication orally. Not even aspirin or Tylenol. I am sure that I have received some via IV before though, and I do have to now take a low dose aspirin daily, due to the possibility of a heart problem. But I don't like to take medications. I just endure.

One really cool thing that happened with all of this, is that I got to see my heart working, on a monitor screen. Including the inside of it, valves flapping open and closed, all. It was so cool. It makes one in awe because it just keeps going and going, like the Energizer Bunny. But there ain't no battery attached to it. Facinating actually.

Told you I ain't right in the head.


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## Matt Bell

Oh wow conditionfreak, it isn't funny really, but that last post of yours had me cracking up. I know what you mean about the heart thing, I remember getting that done when I was 16 for a heart murmur it was really cool looking. I just can't imagine trying to catch birds in 2 casts, and I can see the look that nurse was giving you, LOL!


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## mr squeaks

Been following this thread and enjoying the repartee between y'all! I do so in honor of MR. Squeaks, my retired disabled racing homing pij, who, IF racing would, I'm sure, be a champion! With his _attitude_ I would expect nothing less!

Of course you can say SOB, Ace...after all, the word does spell *sob* (as in "cry")... 

Conditionfreak, I am so sorry to hear about your trials and tribulations! Truly one of those "when it rains, it pours!" And, you _are_ young! Of course, I'm looking from my 71 years...guess that makes me a fossil?? ROFL

The gang and I are sending all of our *BEST HEALING THOUGHTS *with *LOVE and HUGS!* Your positive attitude will make a tremendous difference toward your recovery!

Shi/MR. Squeaks/Dom/Gimie/WoeBeGone/Rae Charles


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## Big T

conditionfreak said:


> I do not drink and have never drank alcohol.
> 
> I am probably the healthiest broken and sick person you could ever meet. You should keep in mind that I have to wear a mask in my lofts, due to pigeon lung disease. You should have seen the look on the ER nurses face when she asked my wife what I was allergic to and she told her pigeons and wasp stings. She asked my wife how we knew I was allergic to pigeons and she told her "because he has a hundred of them". The nurse repled "why do you have pigeons if you are allergic to them?" I answered "because I ain't right in the head".
> 
> But I don't like to take medications. I just endure.
> 
> 
> Told you I ain't right in the head.


So........ you cannot blame alcohol....... You cannot blame drugs.............. You keep pigeons even though they make you sick........ Your only excuse is you ain't right in the head........... I knew I liked you from the beginning, It must be a pigeon thing cause my family knows I just ain't right..... Nice to know I fit in somewhere.

God Bless and keep flying,
Tony

PS I'm sending white birds your way next year.


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## Flapdoodle

*I have always been a glass 1/2 full kind of a guy...*

Right now the glass is looking 1/2 empty.

The day started out great, I let the birds out about 6:00 low temperature, a little breeze. I let them out to loft fly. They were not just gliding around the loft but really flying, zipping around, occasionally diving, weaving in and out the trees... really hammering it. I love to watch them fly when they are like that. I went in to clean the loft, droppings all look good, which they were off yesterday, I chalked up to the fact that some of the birds were out two days etc. When I finished the loft, put in the feed, and set the trap board, I stopped and watched them fly. Still hammering... I turned toward the house and then heard some of the birds collide, immediately I am thinking hawk... I turn to look where the birds are and they ran right in to a telephone line that goes up my neighbor’s driveway. It is the only wire with a several hundred yards of the loft. 

The birds continue to fly except for my white bird. He flies right to roof of the loft. After a few minutes the rest trap. I go to see how they look. 3 birds hit the wire, two of mine one of the Jedds bands (sorry Xueoo). 

Out of 44 birds in the loft, 3 hawks, 3 wire injuries, plus the MIA birds (no birds turned up yesterday). 

I am thinking I am jinxed, hexed, bewitched, ill-fated, voodooed, doomed, snake bit, luckless, afflicted, troubled, behind the eight ball. The season hasn't even started yet.

Anybody help me with a cure?


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

Flapdoodle said:


> .....Out of 44 birds in the loft, 3 hawks, 3 wire injuries, plus the MIA birds (no birds turned up yesterday).
> 
> I am thinking I am jinxed, hexed, bewitched, ill-fated, voodooed, doomed, snake bit, luckless, afflicted, troubled, behind the eight ball. The season hasn't even started yet.
> 
> Anybody help me with a cure?


 I know I might catch some flax for this....but it's the all white pigeons in the loft.  They will cause you to feel jinxed, hexed, bewitched, ill-fated, voodooed, doomed, snake bit, luckless, afflicted, troubled, behind the eight ball. But, don't worry....once the white ones are all lost...then things will settle down. 

Typically, they would all be lost by now.....but the last couple hanging on...will mess you up good !


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## pattersonk2002

*Mia*

When I sent my birds to your race invitation, I knew right from the start that there was a good chance of never seeing them again. First off it would start with the USPS making sure they arrived well, Phase one complete. Now I am looking at the fact that if I flew the birds here I may have lost both of them already in the same circumstances. I will miss my MIA and send prayers that I might see my young cock bird again, There is no way in my mind that I could do any better then you have done with these birds, you can't stop nature. I am not sure what to call the fact that the birds fly into a wire, who's fault is that ? who knows. I am just enjoying following this with hopes that my remaining bird will place in the top ten. Once again, I won't be happy if my cock bird decides to go to another loft but that's the way it goes. Your doing a great job. >Kevin


----------



## MaryOfExeter

I've always wondered how pigeons actually hit telephone wires. You would think if they were paying any attention at all to what they were doing, they would fly over them. But I guess that was because I'd never seen a bird hit one before. But a couple weeks ago when I let my birds out, facing away from all the wires, well, they decided to fly into them when they circled around. The flock was flying so tight that the ones in the middle had a difficult time not hitting them. I heard some wings smack them but no one was actually hurt, thank goodness.

I think you're doing a great job. Everyone loses birds. Everyone has hawk attacks. Everyone will have a wire hit or some other weird injury. These guys are still young birds even if they look like adults. They still have a lot of learning to do. I bet the ones who got hit by hawks will get out of there more quickly next time a BOP comes around. And I bet those that hit the wires will prefer not to go near them again  Let's just hope what doesn't kill them, makes them stronger!


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## Big T

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> I know I might catch some flax for this....but it's the all white pigeons in the loft.  They will cause you to feel jinxed, hexed, bewitched, ill-fated, voodooed, doomed, snake bit, luckless, afflicted, troubled, behind the eight ball. But, don't worry....once the white ones are all lost...then things will settle down.
> 
> Typically, they would all be lost by now.....but the last couple hanging on...will mess you up good !


I was worried no one was going to pick on my poor little white birds. Problem is I get to hear about it from the half white bird owner. What is the world coming to if a man will not admit he has white in his birds too?????

By the way, it has to be behind the cue ball for the eight ball is black.

Tony


----------



## Big T

Flapdoodle said:


> Right now the glass is looking 1/2 empty.


Half full or half empty, let’s be honest. If the glass was half full of whisky, it would only be half full if I drank the first half, if you drank it my glass would be half empty. So it is all in the perspective, Flapdoodle, you are doing all the work so when you lose a bird it is half empty. For all of us you are doing all the work and you are losing the birds so we cannot be blamed so our cups runneth over. Sucks to be you but you do get our understanding and sympathy. Remember you wanted this, and we were glad to give it to you.

LOL, Tony


----------



## Xueoo

Flapdoodle said:


> Right now the glass is looking 1/2 empty.
> 
> The day started out great, I let the birds out about 6:00 low temperature, a little breeze. I let them out to loft fly. They were not just gliding around the loft but really flying, zipping around, occasionally diving, weaving in and out the trees... really hammering it. I love to watch them fly when they are like that. I went in to clean the loft, droppings all look good, which they were off yesterday, I chalked up to the fact that some of the birds were out two days etc. When I finished the loft, put in the feed, and set the trap board, I stopped and watched them fly. Still hammering... I turned toward the house and then heard some of the birds collide, immediately I am thinking hawk... I turn to look where the birds are and they ran right in to a telephone line that goes up my neighbor’s driveway. It is the only wire with a several hundred yards of the loft.
> 
> The birds continue to fly except for my white bird. He flies right to roof of the loft. After a few minutes the rest trap. I go to see how they look. 3 birds hit the wire, two of mine *one of the Jedds bands *(sorry Xueoo).
> 
> Out of 44 birds in the loft, 3 hawks, 3 wire injuries, plus the MIA birds (no birds turned up yesterday).
> 
> I am thinking I am jinxed, hexed, bewitched, ill-fated, voodooed, doomed, snake bit, luckless, afflicted, troubled, behind the eight ball. The season hasn't even started yet.
> 
> Anybody help me with a cure?


Can't be mad at a bird for hitting wire. Mine that I loft fly here are major daredevils that weave in and out of traffic, tree's, house's, buildings, etc. The majority of those injured birds are the leaders of the flock, so, in a sense, they are the "good" one's from what I can see. Just too bad they may miss the season.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Big T said:


> I was worried no one was going to pick on my poor little white birds. Problem is I get to hear about it from the half white bird owner. What is the world coming to if a man will not admit he has white in his birds too?????
> 
> By the way, it has to be behind the cue ball for the eight ball is black.
> 
> Tony


My bird is proud to have some white on him. He inherited from his great grandmother who won the 2001 Snow Bird Classic. Now for one of Warren's white birds first on a 55 mile drop makes me think he might have some of that wedding release cross town blood in it. Can't believe Warren would cross his Flamingo blood with color to make the wife happy. Go figure.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Now for the hawks. I read somewhere that hawks will key in on differences in the flock. Say if they are all whites with one blue bird they will hit the blue. If their is a lone white they will key in on it. This flock is pretty mixed. It would be interesting to see how the red birds are doing, the splashes, or those birds that are the color minority in the flock. 

I have also read, I think from maybe Warren, that if you keep the flocks down to smaller than 20 birds that they will be less likely to hit wires. The front birds block the view of the following birds. Now days our birds fly low and fast. I have a flyer flying about 30 of my birds this year. His comment was how low and fast they are compared to what he is used to. I can remember going inside when my birds flew because they scare me so much when they fly around the wires. Maybe we need to cross in a high flyer or two. My old sions flew high and slow. 

Flap you are doing great with a bird. Someone told me when I lost one of my favorite birds that if you do not want to loose them, don't let them out. We all experience losses. Our ABQ club shut down old birds this year after 3 races due to losses. You fly through the mountains in a tough race course. I feel as good of a job that you are doing the true best birds will win. Even if it is Warren's vanilla-straberry swirl birds or one of those release birds. Hey maybe one of those birds with those dreaded white flights will win.


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## pattersonk2002

*Non white*

Ok now I am LMAO, Vanila strawberry swrils, I guess that little hawk likes Blueberry stripe too. I am thinking about asking Tom to paint my second bird orange so he can top that with a little sherbert. I can't wait for the end of this race. I think you guys are tossing more crow now then you will in the end. >Kevin


----------



## jpsnapdy

hillfamilyloft said:


> Now for the hawks. I read somewhere that hawks will key in on differences in the flock. Say if they are all whites with one blue bird they will hit the blue. If their is a lone white they will key in on it. This flock is pretty mixed. It would be interesting to see how the red birds are doing, the splashes, or those birds that are the color minority in the flock.
> 
> I have also read, I think from maybe Warren, that if you keep the flocks down to smaller than 20 birds that they will be less likely to hit wires. The front birds block the view of the following birds. Now days our birds fly low and fast. I have a flyer flying about 30 of my birds this year. His comment was how low and fast they are compared to what he is used to. I can remember going inside when my birds flew because they scare me so much when they fly around the wires. Maybe we need to cross in a high flyer or two. My old sions flew high and slow.
> 
> Flap you are doing great with a bird. Someone told me when I lost one of my favorite birds that if you do not want to loose them, don't let them out. We all experience losses. Our ABQ club shut down old birds this year after 3 races due to losses. You fly through the mountains in a tough race course. I feel as good of a job that you are doing the true best birds will win. Even if it is Warren's vanilla-straberry swirl birds or one of those release birds. Hey maybe one of those birds with those dreaded white flights will win.


Hi ! you guys are having a good time obviously, fun to watch, too !
All predators go for the slowest and weakest individuals in the flock/herd.
Poor white birds! sniff.  Somehow, though some of the fastest racing pigeons are pieds or WF, how does it work ???


----------



## conditionfreak

Since this is all about "bragging rights" and not much of anything else. I feel compelled to mention that as of now, my bird is the only bird that has won anything thus far (Prettiest Bird Award). 

Therefore my original prediction that #100 would win it all, is right on track. I gave that number 100 band to that specific bird for a reason. It was not coincidence. My other bird (#108) is going to take second place. And they are both still there!

Therefore, y'all are competing for third place.

Sorry, and Good luck!



P.S. My #100 (aka Marine Won) does have white flights and the now well known white nose. But, it is white strategically placed to confound and confuse the other racing birds and the hawks. The other alleged racing pigeons will not give 100 much of a chance and ignore it, thus allowing it to surprise them across the finish lines. The hawks will think that they are seeing three tiny white birds flying in a "V" formation, and thus go after some bigger meals elsewhere.

Yep. My plan is flawless. First the PT competition and then the WORLD! Ha Ha Ha Ha


----------



## pattersonk2002

*pretiest bird*

I had to laugh in the fact that you (conditionfreak) voted for one of my birds to win, I have to say that they look so close I was not sure wich one was mine over yours. I am thinking that since everybody thought yours was the perttiest that little Hawk has now gotten the same look. I am thinking your birds will now be so busy struting there title as pretty bird they will forget thay have yet to win the race. 3rd place, You have to have a bird in the race to even beat that.


----------



## conditionfreak

Yea. I am actually a little worried that my birds are just too darn good looking. I don't know how a good eyed hawk could resist.

But, I'm counting on the speed of my birds, and the feral blood, to handle that.

As for those slower racing pigeons. Well. Let me just say, Good Luck.

"Don't hate me because I am pretty".

P.S. I didn't vote for my bird, because it would have "tainted" the contest, IMO. Additionally, I didn't think that my bird was the prettiest. It does have that unique "birthmark" on its forehead. But it isn't the prettiest, IMO. But hey. Who am I to argue with the masses. 

Marine Won is sure going to look good on the cover of PT Magazine.


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## Flapdoodle

Flapdoodle said:


> ... I turned toward the house and then heard some of the birds collide, immediately I am thinking hawk... I turn to look where the birds are and they ran right in to a telephone line that goes up my neighbor’s driveway. It is the only wire with a several hundred yards of the loft.
> 
> The birds continue to fly except for my white bird. He flies right to roof of the loft. After a few minutes the rest trap. I go to see how they look. 3 birds hit the wire, two of mine one of the Jedds bands (sorry Xueoo).
> 
> Out of 44 birds in the loft, 3 hawks, 3 wire injuries, plus the MIA birds (no birds turned up yesterday)...


I guess you could say I pulled a flapdoodle. In my "woe is me" mood yesterday, I failed to count the birds after they trapped. I just focused on the three birds that hit the wire and did not make sure everyone was home. 

When I got home from work last night, I had a white bird on the loft wanting to get in. In my mind, I am thinking it is Big T’s back from Friday's toss. I go up to the loft and realize it is TRC 663 a Luckyloft bird. I let it in the loft and do a head count and get 43 birds. My inventory Sunday AM we had 44. 

Unfortunately, TRC 663 was involved in Monday morning’s wire fiasco. I have had birds hit wires before. Not four birds at the same time. I had my back turned when it happened, I heard a few birds collide and turned around saw a few feathers and then my white bird landed on the loft. Everyone else flew for a while. The wire runs along the driveway pasture on one side orchard on another with tall grass. From my vantage point, I could see the pasture and road and no birds on the ground. I wonder if my number 44 bird was hit by hawk and went down in the orchard. The hawk spooked the others into the wire collision. Who knows… bottom line I am missing another bird. 

Of the seven birds that have been injured thus far, all of them look fine except Luckloft’s white. She has a significant wing injury, can fly up to a perch, but hangs the wing. From those that hit the wire yesterday all the wanted to fly with the group around the loft today, all flew over 45 minutes and looked good, unfortunately pulling the same *BS* they were yesterday… weaving through the trees, dive-bombing, my favorite part of keeping birds and I am too nervous to watch.


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## Xueoo

So...mine is fine?


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## Flapdoodle

Xueoo said:


> So...mine is fine?


Xueoo Jedds 15253 if I remember correctly is the bird that hit the wire. Yesterday right after it happened two of the birds looked bad just sat on the perches, swollen, were not eating with the other birds. When I got home last night all the birds wanted to fly except two, Luckylofts and mine. Your bird has a small cut from the wire but looks ok. I did not force any of them out of the loft… they on left on their own. Same thing today.


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## Flapdoodle

It is a little painful to watch due to the sound and crummy image quality but I had a few new videos. I used a free program from Google called Picasa for splicing the video clips together. It is a program to make slide shows. It works but not all that well. 

From the Yuba Toss we have three MIA. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IhUOj-53Xk&feature=channel

From the Sugar Bowl we have six MIA. Sugar Bowl is on my side of the Sierras. The next toss will from the top or starting back down the Nevada side. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVL24RmGUEg&feature=channel 

In spite of all my doom and gloom over the past two weeks, the majority of the birds look good and healthy. Individually we have some issues with hurt and lost birds. As a whole, the team is small compared to some of the other lofts but I think they are coming along very well. July 20th I should get chip rings on the birds and start using the clock. I put the antenna on the landing board last week so they can get use to it. 

I will get some video of the birds and do an inventory tonight or tomorrow so we can see who is missing..


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## hillfamilyloft

Nice to see my mop top in the videos. Looks like the red birds and that strawberry swirl are the ones to beat as of now.


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## hillfamilyloft

Interesting looking at the inventory and seeing many more out of town birds missing than Flaps. Makes me wonder whether birds born on site hold an advantage in homing than those shipped in. Maybe Flaps birds are just kicking our butts. I also noticed a few fliers that have not lost any birds. Like to see how established breeders with longer family histories fair against newbees. More selection time should also add to fewer losses. I commend those who still have all their birds.


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## Flapdoodle

hillfamilyloft said:


> Interesting looking at the inventory and seeing many more out of town birds missing than Flaps. Makes me wonder whether birds born on site hold an advantage in homing than those shipped in. Maybe Flaps birds are just kicking our butts. I also noticed a few fliers that have not lost any birds. Like to see how established breeders with longer family histories fair against newbees. More selection time should also add to fewer losses. I commend those who still have all their birds.


You hear stories about eggs that are taken and hatched by another flyer that end up flying back to the loft where they were laid. I wonder if my birds have an advantage as well. 

Another thing to note, Most of my birds are Dec-Feb hatches, AUB 300-317 were banded the first and second week in January. Older then most of the forum birds. AUB 331 & 332 were banded end of March. I gave most of the second and third round to a new flyer in my club. I would not say mine are kicking butt just older. 

I guess I should come clean. My AUB banded birds get hemp seed, they come into the house during the day for the AC. They also each get a daily massage and I put them back with their mom's and pa's for feeding each night. Hemp with a little crop milk is the secret.


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## luckyloft

Thanks for the update,sorry to hear about my bird but these things happen.I am just glad he or she made it back to the loft. I am sure you will take good care of it.If the bird is too injured to race let me know and I will pay to have it shipped back to me.I have been very proud of mine and Beckys birds(The North Carolina connection)I live in pretty much a level area compaired to what I see on your videos and I was a bit concerned about how mine would do.I live in the city of Spencer NC and have wires all around my loft so I am well aware of the dangers of wires.I will just wish the other Luckyloft bird the best. Thanks for all your hard work. Jeff


----------



## Xueoo

Flapdoodle said:


> Xueoo Jedds 15253 if I remember correctly is the bird that hit the wire. Yesterday right after it happened two of the birds looked bad just sat on the perches, swollen, were not eating with the other birds. When I got home last night all the birds wanted to fly except two, Luckylofts and mine. Your bird has a small cut from the wire but looks ok. I did not force any of them out of the loft… they on left on their own. Same thing today.


Good to know mine is doing better. Would you hold out the bird from the next toss, just for the sake of being cautious? It might have internal damage or soreness that may make it hard to go 40-50+ miles.


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## Xueoo

hillfamilyloft said:


> Interesting looking at the inventory and seeing many more out of town birds missing than Flaps. Makes me wonder whether birds born on site hold an advantage in homing than those shipped in. Maybe Flaps birds are just kicking our butts. I also noticed a few fliers that have not lost any birds. Like to see how established breeders with longer family histories fair against newbees. More selection time should also add to fewer losses. I commend those who still have all their birds.


It's only been short tosses thus far, so I don't think "homing" has much to do with it, unless there are bad "homers" in the group. Assuming that we all sent "homing" pigeons, I would think they can make 50 miles no problem. Hawks and other mishaps will happen...so don't know...

Maybe Flap's birds have a better natural "predator" instincts being they fly a very wooded course which may contain multiple hawk strikes before getting home.


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## conditionfreak

Do I have this correct? Flapdoodle has about as many of his own birds, as the number of birds from "us"? (maybe 22 and 22 or so).


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## hillfamilyloft

conditionfreak said:


> Do I have this correct? Flapdoodle has about as many of his own birds, as the number of birds from "us"? (maybe 22 and 22 or so).


He has only allocated two for the PT race. The others he will fly with the club. I think he put a post on which birds he put in the race some time back. This was also stated at the beginning.


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## RodSD

Totally enjoyed the videos you have been posting. To prevent birds hitting wires, quite possibly, you have to fly only few birds at the same time. That way they have better views and have the space to suddenly outmaneuver it. But I think the birds will learn to avoid those once they experience it.


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## conditionfreak

hillfamilyloft said:


> He has only allocated two for the PT race. The others he will fly with the club. I think he put a post on which birds he put in the race some time back. This was also stated at the beginning.


Okay for that info. I am just going by the spread sheet and there is nothing there to indicate this.

By the way. This is not a PT race. It is a PT competition and all of our birds will be competing with his clubs races, for the entire season. Obtaining points during these numerous races, and the total points at the end of his clubs racing season, will determine bragging rights for our (my) birds.  If things have not changed recently.


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## Airbaby

Told a club member sometime back i sent a few birds to California for another handler to race and the first words out of there mouth was "birds from our area dont do worth a damn out there, trust me you can ask so and so" I didnt comment...guess i am going to find out LOL


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## Flapdoodle

*Another tough toss...*

PT Challenge would be a better name. The challenge will be survive training and make it to the first race. This is going to be a tough year with raptors. 

I released the birds this morning from 58 miles on the Nevada side of the sierras but still in California. They were released at 6,300 feet they looked good at first went the right direction but then dropped down the bottom of the canyon the wrong way (approx 5900 in elevation at the Donner Lake). Then they started circling higher to get elevation to get over Donner Pass at 7300 feet. All of the sudden the whole group goes into a dive and scatter a million directions (ok only 36 directions). After a second, I see the falcon flying back up to gain elevation. The last I could see we had a group of birds flying quickly the wrong way. I watched for a long while and could not see any other birds. I packed the crates and headed home. When I show up I check the loft and we only had two birds Airbaby 33, AUB 329. 

I had the following injured birds sit out. They all sat out of a short toss on Tuesday but have been loft flying twice a day the rest of the week, except TRC 663(bad wing, no flying):

LCC 461
JEDDS 15253
TRC 663 (in a separate breeding cage)

AUB 309
AUB 313
AUB 321
AUB 325

I have actually only seen a hawk/falcon attack two other times. At my loft a coopers hawk took a bird and went right to the ground the rest went air born. The other was at a friend’s loft, the hawk missed and the pigeon went to cover in a tree for about 45 minutes. Some of our birds I am sure did the same thing. Went straight for the nearest cover and wait it out. Some of the others fly whichever direction they are facing. I will get a headcount tonight and tomorrow and then get an inventory posted. 

True to form, I had the camera rolling and caught the mayhem on video. I have not gone over the footage yet. Tonight I will get it uploaded for those that care to watch. I hope your individual YB teams are doing better then our collective group.


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## MaryOfExeter

Poor birds!  Hope the rest come back!


----------



## ace in the hole

So what we're looking at for this PT race is the one who survives the longest wins. Right? lol


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## conditionfreak

Pretty much.

One thing to keep in mind though, is that it isn't always the survival of the fittest. Sometimes it comes down to the luckiest.


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## bloodlines_365

hope they make it home, fyling in those areas are the riskiest [nevada desert] specially closed to the wooded areas with high and low elavation cause thats where they hide and ambush, falcon are no joke, they would try and try tell they get one but hopefully they turn out okay... would love to see the video....


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## Flapdoodle

19 birds in the loft plus the ones that sat out. It is 105 freaking degrees , that does not help, I will do a head count after dark and try to take a look at the video. I did see one of the Big T whites, MarineOne, and SFL almost white bird in the 19, I will do an inventory maybe in the morning...


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## conditionfreak

I have my fingers crossed for every ones birds. Not just mine.

I am sure that most will trickle in over the next day.


----------



## conditionfreak

There are a few of us out here that are holding our breath to find out whom is missing.  Hope all or most made it home.

Man, this is going to be a long season of anxiety.


----------



## Airbaby

Hopefully they had some cooler weather this morning the birds could take adavantage to get home, once the heat kicks on you can pretty much stop looking up and hope to see some more the next morning.


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## Flapdoodle

conditionfreak said:


> There are a few of us out here that are holding our breath to find out whom is missing.  Hope all or most made it home.
> 
> Man, this is going to be a long season of anxiety.


Sorry for the anxiety, If it is better I can wait until I know the outcome before I post. However this way you get the same feeling I have waiting for birds. We have 40 in the loft. I will catch all the birds in the morning. I was looking for birds or bands that stand out. Two of the birds missing for sure are one of the NPA whites and one of the bright green JEDDS banded birds. We may still get them in tonight or in the morning. We are out three birds. One bird was hit and made it back to the loft. It was one of the pretty birds from the show with SFL band. The bird should be fine but was hit and cut one his middle toes and upper leg. 

I plan to just loft fly and shorter tosses, until some of the other flyers get over the hill. I think If I can jump the birds out to 80 miles and they get their bearings before they get to the granite cliffs on mountains they may do a little better. I will also try to get the video up. It is not all that clear but I think we had multiple falcons.


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## West

I really hope this race is going on next year, sounds like a lot of fun.


----------



## Bluecheckard

West said:


> I really hope this race is going on next year, sounds like a lot of fun.



Yup i have been following the episode of this race everyday ..... just like a TV series...


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## SmithFamilyLoft

hillfamilyloft said:


> Interesting looking at the inventory and seeing many more out of town birds missing than Flaps. Makes me wonder whether birds born on site hold an advantage in homing than those shipped in. Maybe Flaps birds are just kicking our butts. I also noticed a few fliers that have not lost any birds. Like to see how established breeders with longer family histories fair against newbees. More selection time should also add to fewer losses. I commend those who still have all their birds.


 I suspect that what this really means, is that Flap has generally better quality birds then the average entry into this race. This is why I think a One Loft Race, is a better way to determine the breeding of one's birds. I know it's not fun to see a bunch of losses before the first race, and many One Loft Owners will baby them just to insure the max number of *paid* entries into the races. In this case, Flap has a whole season ahead of him, and he really can't afford to baby sit to the slowest common denominator. The slow pokes or those not ready for prime time, will simply be left behind in the smoke or maybe in this case, the dust. And unless the team is pushed a bit, you won't be able to figure out who should have stayed with the pigeon shows, or as back yard pets, or wedding release birds. And heck, this is just the training tosses....wait until we get down the road a couple hundred of miles !


----------



## Flapdoodle

Here are two new videos. The first is a short training toss opposite the line of flight. The second is the training toss up at Donner Lake. The toss at the lake the birds looked good at first then dropped down the canyon the wrong way and started circling. As they started to pick up elevation and head the right direction they turn around and started flying quicker maybe they saw the falcon. All of a sudden they just drop straight down about 5 minutes and 40 seconds into the video. I am not sure how much you will be able to see. It all happened very quickly. I was watching through the viewfinder so missed most of it. The elevation to get over the pass is about 7300’, the lake is 5,800’, and I released the birds at 6,400’. In one of the clips I tried to adjust the contrast so you could see it all better. The falcon can be seen for just a few seconds above the birds, right behind them on the right side through the trees. 

We have a club meeting Tuesday. I will talk to some of the other guys and see how their training is going with respects to raptors. I will also get the birds allocated and start using the clock. Hope you all have a good week. I still owe you the inventory, hopefully in the morning. 

Rice paddy toss:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbOU47MYPPk

Donner Lake toss (falcon attack):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARdyF0BOG-c


----------



## Matt Bell

WOW!!! It was hard to see the falcon in real speed, but with the slow motion you could certainly pick up the attack, really incredible stuff! You are doing a great job handling the birds, its got to be nerve racking knowing that all you can do is sit and watch them.


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## re lee

When the birds get attacked b a hawk Befor they get on the line of flight And they scatter Then it would take a little more to re figire the path of direction. If possble A clear area for release long enough for the birds to orient Would work better as mister hawk would not be as good on a ambush attack. But Birds get lost in training every day one reason or another.


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## conditionfreak

Is it better to let the birds sit in the basket for 15 minutes or so, before releasing them for a training or even for a race?

So that they have a few minutes to "get their bearings". 

When they go to the races, they are usually entirely covered and can not see where they are until the gates open and the race is on. Or do the liberators open portions of the trailer or truck and let them have a few minutes to locate the sun, etc.?


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## MaryOfExeter

I think it is very important to let them sit for a while. Liberators should let the birds sit for about 45 minutes before release. The way our trailer is made, some of them can see out, just depends on whether or not there is a crate beside them. I think it's good for them to settle down. And if part of their homing skills do involve magnetic fields, smell, and other things besides sight, then it'll give them time to get their bearings in that sense.


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## Flapdoodle

*Inventory*

I did the inventory today. We are missing three birds from the Donner Lake toss. 

AVC 1004
JEDDS 15252
NPA 3256

INVENTORY

Happy, Big T, and Xueoo, sorry for the loss. Happy you can shoot me if you want. I am three for three, your birds don’t like me. 

The birds all flew for an hour around the loft after the inventory. All injured birds look good and are flying. Warren your bird will be fine to race the injury is a puncture in the leg and toe, definitely hit by the falcon. On the perch he holds the leg up, but while moving around the loft and on the landing board he walks on it. 

Sorry this inventory has taken a couple of days. Meeting at the club tomorrow to get the birds allocated. I have talked to four other flyers in the club none of them are over the hill yet but will be this week or next.


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## MaryOfExeter

Yikes. Sorry to hear about those 3. Glad everyone else is doing good though


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## conditionfreak

Contrary to what many believe, bad things can happen to good pigeons.


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## hillfamilyloft

I would not be surprised if that 40 birds does not cut down to 30 by the first race. The training has been tough. We all knew at the start that up and over the mountain is not an easy task for the birds. The heat the hawks, the ones that make it to the first race should be ready for the task.


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## Xueoo

Sucks for the losses, but, some have to take it for the team. Hawk attacks and other hazzards I can live with, as long as it's not just plain "lost".


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## Flapdoodle

*Weekly update July 18th - 24th*

Our first race is August 28th. I only did a couple of shorter tosses this week both north of the loft. The birds came home together on the first toss, the second they were split in two groups, all the birds made it back. 

First report of a guy up over the pass. He had two birds come back hit by raptors and still waiting on six. Most the other guys will be over the hill this week. 

I have the chip rings and clock all ready to go. I will be out of town this week so just loft flying. The birds will get treated with a 4 in 1. I get back August 1st and will hit it hard for a month before the first race. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfXj7OK55Qs


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## Xueoo

Just curious if the hawks have conditioned themselves, or learned, to wait for "food" by the hill, as it seems the whole club tosses that way?


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## ace in the hole

*Flap*, it would be nice to see how the birds come in on the clock on your 120 mile toss. That would be a good one for a short One Loft Race.

Ace


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## Flapdoodle

Xueoo said:


> Just curious if the hawks have conditioned themselves, or learned, to wait for "food" by the hill, as it seems the whole club tosses that way?


 This could be, two other flyers have been training without problems. We tossed with one of them today. I brought the birds to his place this morning. I was at work early but he said his made it back in good time in two groups. I am a little short of his loft by about a mile. I hope that all went well.



ace in the hole said:


> *Flap*, it would be nice to see how the birds come in on the clock on your 120 mile toss. That would be a good one for a short One Loft Race.
> 
> Ace


I might not make the 120-mile mark before the first race. I worked out a deal with a guy in the club and he is going to get the birds up the road at least twice a week for me. 

Chasing the kids for a week, I feel like I need to go take a vacation now without them. I got back Sunday night. The birds look like crap and are completely falling apart. It seems like when I scraped the loft yesterday, I had more feathers then crap. I figured that maybe my nephew who was taking care of them just didn’t scrape all that well. This morning same thing in the loft. It almost looks like something got into the loft there are so many feathers. I let them out Monday and they took off out of site for about half an hour then flew around the loft for ten minutes. 40 minutes is not all that great. I may start to flag them to keep them up at least an hour when we are not training on the road. I hooked up with another flyer this morning and he took our birds 68 miles line of flight. He has not had any problems with the hawk/falcon. He called and said his birds (60) came home in good time in two groups about five minutes apart. I am guessing half his birds went to my loft first. He said he did not see any head back my way. I hope that all is well back at the loft. I will see tonight. I hope everyone is doing well and your birds are getting ready for your first races.


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## Flapdoodle

Just a quick update. Some of the birds are still going through a head molt and do not look all that great. A handful are completely molted out and look all new and shiny. We have some that have decided to pair up, no eggs. All the birds have chip rings. We tossed twice last week with another flyer and again this morning. Last week we tossed at Truckee (about 68 miles) and then at Boca (about 75 miles). Later this week the plan is to toss at Boom Town just inside Nevada. That will be two weeks before the first race. 

I will be getting in some shorter tosses. I will also get some video. The toss today was around 45 miles. The birds came home in two main groups two minutes apart. We had two of the people birds we trained with circle the loft twice then head his direction. A few minutes later we had three come from his loft that most of followed his home. I did not get the clock turned on before the birds showed up this morning. I will have it on for the toss at Boomtown, and a couple other tosses in Nevada before the first race on the 28th. I will also post those results... hope everyone his doing well.


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## Flapdoodle

Quick update, yesterday I did a short toss with another flyer, all 39 birds trapped in 30 seconds. It was only a 40 mile toss. Today we went 85 with another flyer, he released the birds in a pretty good head wind. Will see how they do. We have two weeks until the first race. We ended up short a bird from the Boca toss, it was one of mine. I will post the trapping order from the toss today. Good luck if you are racing this weekend.


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## Guest

Flapdoodle said:


> Quick update, yesterday I did a short toss with another flyer, all 39 birds trapped in 30 seconds. It was only a 40 mile toss. Today we went 85 with another flyer, he released the birds in a pretty good head wind. Will see how they do. We have two weeks until the first race. We ended up short a bird from the Boca toss, it was one of mine. I will post the trapping order from the toss today. Good luck if you are racing this weekend.


so how did they do , kinda curious , hope they all made it back


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## Flapdoodle

LokotaLoft said:


> so how did they do , kinda curious , hope they all made it back


They all made it back.

16 on the first drop, then most within a few minutes of the first group. We had one bird several hours late. It was my pretty grizzle from the pigeon show. I posted the trapping times on the spreadsheet left hand column. I will try to get a couple of other longer tosses on the spreadsheet. Two weeks from today is our first race. The birds are coming around. Hope all those who raced this weekend did well! 

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AhvvsnG-54p4dG9wTlQ2alA4ay0zR0t4N2YzaTZZenc&hl=en#gid=0

I also have a video from the short toss last week I will try to get online.


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## Xueoo

Not bad. Looks like they were in two main groups with a couple late ones.


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## ace in the hole

*It looks like those hawks are teaching the birds to trap faster. Both of the first two birds in were hawk hit in past training tosses.

Can't wait for the races to start.

Ace*


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## conditionfreak

You're right. Your 461 was hawk hit back in July, and it was the first to trap! That'll teach'em to trap faster. 

Can't wait for the first race results.

As a side note. A bird from the same parents of my number 100 in the PT competition, is entered (as one of two of my entries) in the OCR race in the Cleveland area, and is being handled by a good friend of mine. Just got the results from their first 100 mile race and my bird came in 3rd.

Gonna have to keep that pair producing together I think. The cock cost me 35 bucks at a Combine auction, and the hen was a gift from the previous owner of the cock, and he told me to pair them up and expect good things. He knows what he is talking about. Guess that is why he won average speed last season.  Thanks Kevin.


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## Flapdoodle

ace in the hole said:


> *It looks like those hawks are teaching the birds to trap faster.
> *


What about mine that was hit by a hawk? She came home 6 hours behind yours. Maybe after she was released she hit the nearest tree for cover. Waited a couple of seconds bolted for the next tree. Came home tree by tree. 

I am excited for the first race as well. I added a second page to the spreadsheet, should be a tab "sheet2" at the bottom of the page. I sorted the birds in the order they arrived. 

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AhvvsnG-54p4dG9wTlQ2alA4ay0zR0t4N2YzaTZZenc&hl=en#gid=1


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## ace in the hole

Flapdoodle said:


> What about mine that was hit by a hawk? She came home 6 hours behind yours. Maybe after she was released she hit the nearest tree for cover. Waited a couple of seconds bolted for the next tree. Came home tree by tree.  [/URL]


*Ya, but I'll bet she trapped fast when she got home!  *


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## Big T

Is it me or did I lose a bird each time Happy did?? Could Happy's birds run off with a cute little white bird?? I'm not saying, I'm just saying..........

Tony


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## luckyloft

Glad to see the Luckyloft is still in the hunt! Thanks for the update, Hope me and Becky keep the TRC around a while. Jeff


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## Happy

Big T said:


> Is it me or did I lose a bird each time Happy did?? Could Happy's birds run off with a cute little white bird?? I'm not saying, I'm just saying..........
> 
> Tony


Hi Tony, Yes, I think you got it right. My Blue Checkers fell in Love with your Beautiful Whites & are probably mating elsewhere. If Flap would have given our birds nest box's we wouldn't have lost these....Funny how we plan things for races like this & the bottom falls out.... 2 of the Racers I sent are out of my #1 pair that have been together for 4 yrs.. Have three 2007 sisters to these (that were lost by Flap) that were my best OB's 2009 & 2010. There best this yr. 2010, being 1st & 2nd Club & Section, (193 birds, 24 Lofts) 8th & 9th Overall 794 birds 83 Lofts, from Ravendale, Ca. 465mi.. They might have flown right over Flaps Loft, as it isn't much off line of this station, or other stations our 395 Conc. flys.. These 3 Sisters, also did much to get me 10th Over-all Average Speed 100mi.- 550mi. against 144 Lofts this yr. 2010. They have been in the top 5% many times... My plan was to send more reliable birds noting there are 8 races.... Anyway, I now know why these birds were lost. Big T's WHITE LOVERS..... Happy


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## pattersonk2002

*times*

I know there is no bragging until the race is over but I am happy to have one out of two still in the race at 9th. I know she could be gone tomorrow but she is playing a tough game out there in the mountains. I can't wait until this is over, the suspense will be taking it's toll on me. I do want to send regrets to all the birds that have gone there separate ways and hope that in there new life there young fly high. >Kevin


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## conditionfreak

I'll say this before my birds get lost. 

If someone loses birds in this competition. It is not necessarily an indication of birds that were not capable or worthy of being there at the end. I could be that. But more likely than not, it is just a result of the old saying "bad things can happen to good pigeons".

I have lost several birds this training season. Birds that I would have not hesitated to attach fifty dollar bills to their legs and toss from 100 miles. Yet, they are not here. I also have a bird in my loft that I have named "Skinny". It is IF HIP 376 and was a gift from a flyer in Virginia who gave up the sport.

Skinny just keeps coming and coming. No matter where I toss her from. Looks and feels like krap. This past race, she was in the group of three that were my first birds home. She is not following or chasing. I have single tossed my birds and she comes alone and quicker than most of the others.

Go figure.

Skinny could be gone tomorrow, as any of the birds in Flapdoodles loft, my loft or your loft could. Pigeon racing has a lot to do with luck. Hard work, dedication, time, money and luck. Only maybe 1/3 has to do with stock, IMO.

Just got back from a forty mile toss to Ripley, Ohio. Beautiful spot on the Ohio river where the city has built a sightseeing attraction of wrought iron fences and benches along the river. The cops there are always eyeballing me hard when I release my birds. But they haven't said anything to me yet. 

P.S. My birds all came back together today. Skinng was the first to go over the clock and in the loft. (can't seem to get rid of that darn krappy bird)


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## eyespyer

> P.S. My birds all came back together today. Skinng was the first to go over the clock and in the loft. (can't seem to get rid of that darn krappy bird)


That is a great story! Please keep us posted on Skinny, the Krappy bird.

How about a pic ? LMAO


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## Flapdoodle

*sorry for the novel*



Happy said:


> .... Anyway, I don't know why these birds were lost. Big T's WHITE LOVERS..... Happy


Happy I wish I knew. 

2005 was my first year racing pigeons. I can remember how scared I was that first time I let them out of the loft. I thought I was going to die. Birds were flying and landing everywhere. In my mind, I could not see how they were ever going to all get back to the loft. Somehow, most made it back, sure, I lost a few. Then it was my first toss only a mile down the road. I had the same feeling. Almost heart failure as I let them out of the crates. Somehow, the birds made it home. 

Each season I have had some of the same feelings the first loft flight and toss. Then this year roles around, it has been tough. It is completely different when they are not your birds. When I had a bad toss or loft fly before no one knew but me. I did not have to answer to anyone. This year it feels like I am under some type of magnifying glass. At first, I was very worried about losing birds or making some mistakes. I have come to grips with it, this is pigeon racing, and we are going to have losses. The birds have been more then ready for all of the tosses. They have been healthy. I have done the best I could. Why have some breeders lost no birds and others have lost them all? As the handler, I want to say it is the birds. If I were the breeder, I would want to say it is in the handling. In reality, I think conditionfreak hit on the head. I think it is just dumb luck. Some of it has to do with birds, some of it handling, but a lot of it is luck.

Anyway, I guess I am rambling here. What I want to say is for those that have lost birds I am sorry. Whether they were my birds or yours, if one of them could make it back, they all could make it back for whatever reason they did not. Wish I knew the answers but I don't. I know we will loose birds each race. Typically the first race everyone has some losses unless you push the birds very hard in training. I have not really pushed the birds. The hawk/falcon helped us with some single tossing of sorts but I have not pushed them very hard. 

Here is a video from the short toss last week. This was with another flyer. He said his birds were home about 10 minutes before ours. The number one rule I have learned since coming into the sport is don’t believe anything another flyer tells you about clocking times. However being that this guy is new, I tend to believe him. I am guessing that out birds escorted his home and then took there sweet time being they were so close to the loft. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrCT9TFY1PA

On that same note. We have politely been invited to train the birds on our own. All our longer tosses, Truckee, Boca, and Reno have been with another flyer. We are about a mile apart. He had given me a schedule to get the birds up the road two more long tosses before the races in a week and half. I was paying for gas. After the Reno toss he asked about our clocking time, I told him 9:12. Apparently, his first bird was not until 9:19. The toss before this I was home when they trapped and we had a good size group of his birds follow ours home then head towards his loft. Anyway, he is going to toss with out us… I am excited for the first race.


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## conditionfreak

Whatever happens Flapdoodle, you owe no apologies. It is obvious from all of us here, that you are doing a very good job with our birds.

"Stuff Happens", as the saying goes (first said by Forest Gump I believe  ).

If my birds get lost tomorrow, I thnk you for the enjoyment thus far. Not many would have went to the trouble of not only suggesting this event, but conducting it, and documenting it as you have. It has been fun already.

Just make sure that you lose at least one of Warrens birds (oops, I mean his wifes birds), so that he doesn't rub it in too much. You know. About the cream rising to the top or the men getting separated from the boys, or whatever description he uses. 

Thanks Flap, for feeding, training, medicating, and videoing my half feral birds.  If my bird/s survive the season, I'm gonna want them back. Just give them my address, a long drink and some food to go (and maybe a credit card since I am in Ohio and you are in Ca.), and tell them Daddy is waiting for their triumphant return home.


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## hillfamilyloft

It is kind of interesting. When Warren sent the birds he did and looking at their colors, I thought these were not his best. I thought the almost white bird would not out last the hawks. Just go to show you that birds of any color from good stock are good birds. Many guys will not invest time and money in non blue racers. Ludo was a guy who flew red birds etc. I think he, like Warren did not necessarily use color as a selection mechanism. Color may be no more important than eye sign. 

I think we all know by now Warren is going to gloat. Even if his birds only are first to trap from a 20 mile toss. Right now he is one of the few that has all his wife's birds left. I know I would be talking smack. 

Randy


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## Char-B Loft

hillfamilyloft said:


> It is kind of interesting. When Warren sent the birds he did and looking at their colors, I thought these were not his best. I thought the almost white bird would not out last the hawks. Just go to show you that birds of any color from good stock are good birds. Many guys will not invest time and money in non blue racers. Ludo was a guy who flew red birds etc. I think he, like Warren did not necessarily use color as a selection mechanism. Color may be no more important than eye sign.
> 
> I think we all know by now Warren is going to gloat. Even if his birds only are first to trap from a 20 mile toss. Right now he is one of the few that has all his wife's birds left. I know I would be talking smack.
> 
> Randy


I have a solid white bird that won diplomas as a young bird and as an old bird won a 500 mile race...


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## hillfamilyloft

Char-B Loft said:


> I have a solid white bird that won diplomas as a young bird and as an old bird won a 500 mile race...


I am watching those grizzles. I would like to get me a quality pair. Love the look, just have not found the right birds. I have one silver a few splashes and the rest blue.


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## conditionfreak

Well. My 1st race results are in. I got second in my club, but only 33rd, 34th and 35th in the Combine. In the top ten percent, but I gotta do better. 

I only have 13 young birds for the season. Can't afford to lose more than 5 before the final money race of the year. I have to make wise decisions about weather, etc. (Skinny Krappy bird was 35th, and in the top ten percent) 

Release(A): 07:25 Birds: 393 Lofts: 19

33 THOMAS, WA/13 5421 AU 10 I RC C 09:31:02 103.124 13.40 1440.088 68
34 THOMAS, WALT 182 AU 10 TCC C 09:31:06 2/ 13 13.44 1439.327 67
35 THOMAS, WALT 376 IF 10 HIP BBWF C 09:31:13 3/ 13 13.51 1437.996 66


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## conditionfreak

hillfamilyloft said:


> I am watching those grizzles. I would like to get me a quality pair. Love the look, just have not found the right birds. I have one silver a few splashes and the rest blue.


No reason a white bird can not win, except that it gets eaten. 500 mile win for a white bird is something for sure.


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## Xueoo

As I've said before, I can't fault a bird for getting picked off by hawks or other unfortunate "accidents". Just as long as a bird doesn't plain suck, it is all right.


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## SmithFamilyLoft

hillfamilyloft said:


> It is kind of interesting. When Warren sent the birds he did and looking at their colors, I thought these were not his best. I thought the almost white bird would not out last the hawks. Just go to show you that birds of any color from good stock are good birds. Many guys will not invest time and money in non blue racers. Ludo was a guy who flew red birds etc. I think he, like Warren did not necessarily use color as a selection mechanism. Color may be no more important than eye sign.
> 
> I think we all know by now Warren is going to gloat. Even if his birds only are first to trap from a 20 mile toss. Right now he is one of the few that has all his wife's birds left. I know I would be talking smack.
> 
> Randy


Hey !!!  What did I miss ? I take a few weeks off and take some road trips and apparently all hell breaks loose. Way, OT...but I had one heck of a good time !! See one of video shorts...maybe you will get an insight into my dry sense of humor. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BR5BFA0gKo 

Now, if the birds have not done well, then it's the wife's fault ! If by some chance, they made a good showing of themselves, well...then since I banded them, I should get at least some of the credit !! 

I am such a ham !!! Now, I will have to scroll down, and see what the heck you are talking about.


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## rackerman

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Hey !!!  What did I miss ? I take a few weeks off and take some road trips and apparently all hell breaks loose. Way, OT...but I had one heck of a good time !! See one of video shorts...maybe you will get an insight into my dry sense of humor. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BR5BFA0gKo
> 
> Now, if the birds have not done well, then it's the wife's fault ! If by some chance, they made a good showing of themselves, well...then since I banded them, I should get at least some of the credit !!
> 
> I am such a ham !!! Now, I will have to scroll down, and see what the heck you are talking about.


Warren, I have to say your both hams.............. I liked the video, looked like a trip I would have enjoyed......


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## Xueoo

Just wanted to bump this up and wish all a good luck on the upcoming race on Saturday. 

Looking over Flaps spreadsheet, it looks like the birds are coming in two main groups, so any bird can be the first to trap, if they happen to break with the first group.


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## hillfamilyloft

Is the first race already this weekend. Time does fly. Wish everyone the all the luck, even the whitish birds.


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## Flapdoodle

I am excited as well. The spreadsheet does not mean much do to the fact there is only one good toss. Once the races start I will post data that will be more meaningful. 

I don’t know if I said this or not already: We voted to increase shipping from 15 to 20 per race. I will send all the PT birds in the A race and then my AUB birds in the B race. I will put up a spy cam in the club house shipping night if anyone cares to see it. They release the A race at 7:00, of course it depends on weather. I start looking for birds about 9:00 if I am home. But they won’t show up until around 9:30 if they make good time. It is a short 117mile flight. 

Crazy weather prevented me from training much this week. Two days in a row over 105. We did a short 45 mile flip Monday with another loft. All our birds trapped in good time. I will crate them up tomorrow for short toss. 

I talk to the birds each night. Some of them are a little scared. I don’t think it is a bad thing. It makes them faster and keeps them on edge. They are ready. I will give them my pre season speech tomorrow, shipping Friday night. I can’t believe it is already race day. 

Anyway, good luck to everyone racing this weekend!


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## Flapdoodle

Dogging_99 was not able to send birds. Back in the beginning before any birds were in the loft he sent me a PM about wanting to participate, saying he wanted to sponsor two of my birds. I said sure… then we kind of changed formats and I forgot about it. 

He sent me a note this morning and he has decided to sponsor AUB 300 and AUB 1408. 

Hey if a guy waves money in my face what do you expect me to do?

If someone wants to cry foul… start crying. 

No toss this morning we woke up with 20 mile an hour winds. I let them out around the loft. The birds were up over an hour and look great!


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## hillfamilyloft

I wanna sponsor Smith Family 241 and 245 if thats ok. Ha Ha, or maybe that ACE bird. Sounds like we need a calcutta. Its all for bragging. My half breeds might make a showing. We could have a mock Calcutta to see who can call the winner. My speed blood is not represented, so I am not thinking them until around 250 to 300. I might even pic one of those whitish birds.


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## hillfamilyloft

Need to go back and see which bird I picked from the show to win. 

If all possible can you re-post he rules. Are we going for high points? Average speed? Last white bird left? I forgot the rules.


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## hillfamilyloft

Anxious to see if Warren's theory holds true. That Flaps got for the most part the better birds. If so I expect to see higher speeds and a good bunch on the drop with his and ours spread out a bit and slower. We will see. Splitting them up will be a good test. The question is are home grown better than imports. This will be a true test of the theory. 

Flap are you going to bump two of ours from the A race to make room for the sponsored birds? That would be my only gripe. I would like to see all birds go on the same race.


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## TAWhatley

Yo .. Warren .. looks like you and the wife had a good trip! 

Best of luck to all of you who have birds in this race. I can't wait to see how it all ends up .. 

Terry


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## Flapdoodle

I won't bump any birds. I have never been real good at math. I have 18 PT birds I can send to the race and 21 of mine (I know the list has 20 pt birds, I can't send the Big T's white because of the band issue and LuckyLoft has one bird with a bad wing). I can send 20 birds each race. PT birds will get the A race, mine in the B race. Rather then have one of mine sit out I figure I would move one up to the A race. Ship 19 in the A race and 20 in the B. 

That was before Mike sent me the PM. Here is our correspondence from today:




Flapdoodle said:


> dogging_99 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Flapdoodle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dogging_99 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Flapdoodle,
> 
> So now that the birds have made it through all the training. I was thinking now would be a good time to assign me the two birds you bred for me
> 
> Ive been following this PTloft from the start and I think you are doing an amazing job.
> 
> Thanks: Mike
> dogging_99
> 
> 
> 
> I did assign you two... they both were lost.
> 
> I think that deal was when this was going to cost money for people to send birds. At this point take your pick, look at the spreadsheet and I will move the two birds over to the PT side for you.
> 
> Take care... Tom
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would like to choose these two
> AU 2010 AUB 300
> AU 2010 AUB 1408
> 
> I has hoping it would pan out that way with you the fastest two birds and me the next two, I can dream any way, beggars can't be choosy.
> 
> If the birds survive the 1st race I want to pay you the $50.00 perch fee per surviver.
> 
> Where do I mail the check? The least I can do for all you've done!
> 
> Thanks: Mike
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> sorry I won't take money, I moved them over on the spread sheet and stirred the pot in the forum.. I wish your two birds luck...
Click to expand...

I plan to send AUB 1408 and 300 "Mike's birds" in the A race. As far as rules I like to change those as I go I think we started as points so I will list those, but we can also go off ave speed, and how many mintues to win. Maybe we can get three different winners. If Mikes birds show the others up the first couple of races I will move them back to the B race... (Mike I hope you don't mind me posting the PM, I guess I should of asked first)


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## conditionfreak

hmmm....

Question:....

Nevermind. I will just go with the flow, since it is all for fun anyway.

Bring it on Marine Won and Air Force Won! Kick some Ca. and Pa. a.. , ...er....ah....sorry. I got carried away. 

Good luck to all. (you're going to need it)


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## SmithFamilyLoft

TAWhatley said:


> Yo .. Warren .. looks like you and the wife had a good trip!
> 
> Best of luck to all of you who have birds in this race. I can't wait to see how it all ends up ..
> 
> Terry





Thanks !


----------



## Flapdoodle

conditionfreak said:


> hmmm....
> 
> Question:....
> 
> Nevermind. I will just go with the flow, since it is all for fun anyway.
> 
> Bring it on Marine Won and Air Force Won! Kick some Ca. and Pa. a.. , ...er....ah....sorry. I got carried away.
> 
> Good luck to all. (you're going to need it)


Don’t hold back, question away… we are all friends.

... corrupt, breach of trust, misrepresentation, shadiness, injustice, double-crossing, dishonest, manipulative, underhanded, hornswoggler… 

I know it is completely *bogus* to handpick two birds out of 60 banded that appear to be my better birds. You guys all had to select two before they even left the nest. 

Bogus completely bogus… but I like your last line, it is all for fun. 

Besides I just wanted to know what felt like to be president. 

I guess I could pick a couple for Mike. Maybe I will give him the bottom two...

Good luck everyone!


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

I don't understand what this picking of two birds is suppose to mean ?  At the Winners Cup this year, you can go and pick anyone's birds's to win. They are having some kind of auction system where you can bid on the loft and birds you think will win. If the season here @ this PT race turns out anything like the training, there will be far fewer pigeons in the loft at the end of the season. Until a YB has had about five races and a thousand or so miles under his chip ring, I don't even consider the bird as having been tested. As is usually the case in these things, the breeders will get a much better idea as to what they are producing, good, bad, or indifferent. And from my own personal experience, most fanciers are only producing very average or typical pigeons. One can hope, and one can dream, and once in awhile, one can get lucky, but after a series of races, and certainly after a season, the race results will tell the story, of which birds have the right stuff, which ones are just so so...and which ones are simply pure junk.


----------



## conditionfreak

Ha Ha

I just typed two postings that I erased before I submitted them. I don't want to sour this fun competition. I will send you a PM instead.

So, on with the show. I have a 150 mile race myself tomorrow and then the PT competition race. Tomorrow outta be a fun day (or not).


----------



## conditionfreak

I guess I am having a brain fart today Warren. Because I can't wrap my head around the point you are trying to make in the first part of your posting. I just don't understand if you are addressing the "late entry" situation, or some other point.

Anyway. If two prize fighters are going at it today and I "bet" on one of them, and I win. What bragging rights do I have? That I knew which was the better fighter of the two? That I won some money? 

Now, if I was the trainer or the father of the winner, then I would have some bragging rights coming my way. But there are no bragging rights, IMO, due to someone who just "picks". Especially if they pick the favorite or one of the favorites. Picking SFL's in the Winners Cup would be a no brainer. Right? 

(man I hope I don't lose my "junk" this weekend)


----------



## dogging_99

Tom, 

No I don't mind you posting the PM's here to let everyone now how this came about. I original wanted to be a part of the PT Loft Races and the camaraderie that goes on here. I didn't have any YB to send. I thought this would be a way to help you with expenses and acquire a couple of breeders that have proved themselves, and I would be proud to own.

I've been into pigeons now for 1.5 yrs and I've built a loft in my shop, acquired a clock, a microscope, and a lot of knowledge from this great forum. I treat the pigeons like little doggies, at least that's what I tell people what they are like. 

My wife and daughter are starting to take interest in the birds and understand what the sport is all about. At least they don't seam to think I'm off my rocker any more. 

Regards,


----------



## dogging_99

conditionfreak said:


> But there are no bragging rights, IMO, due to someone who just "picks".


Point taken I agree that is why the president in all his wisdom quoted  "If Mikes birds show the others up the first couple of races I will move them back to the B race"

I understand Warren's point. Lets see how it plays out, they can't win the President has spoken.


----------



## Flapdoodle

hillfamilyloft said:


> Need to go back and see which bird I picked from the show to win.
> 
> If all possible can you re-post he rules. Are we going for high points? Average speed? Last white bird left? I forgot the rules.


Oh, crap… I had better come clean before an election year rolls around. I will get someone digging around my past. You had to bring up the show. I went back to look. I had picked two birds for this race, they were in the show AUB 309 & AUB 325… the problem is they are the two slowest birds in the loft, I was trying to cover it up. I will send those two birds in the A race and let Mike watch his birds take the B race. That should give me 19 birds in each race.

On that same note, when folks voted on the prettiest pigeon some picked birds to win the race as well:

Hill Family Loft had picked three birds LCC 464, Jedds 15253, LCC 465
Yo Pigeon Guy picked Jedds 15253
Pigeon0446 and Ace in the Hole had both picked LCC 460. 

I know to some of you this race is worth about the price of admission. To me however, in my little world, this is bigger then sun city, winners cup, world ace challenge or any other one loft. This 8-week series is the big dance, the super bowl of pigeon racing. 

We will have a winner out of those that have birds from the forum, as long as we get birds back from the first race. 

On a more business like note: Each week I will post the full combine report. YB Average Speed, YB Champion Loft, and the one most of you will be interested in the Champion Young Bird Report. Sure, the report will list all the combine birds but it will list them in points order. I will highlight or number our PT birds on that list. 

Weather report is looking like it might be a little windy. Crazy weather this week 105, 105, 100, today it is 80-85, tomorrow it is calling for a little cooler then that. Some weather reports are actually predicted I light dusting of snow at the higher elevations tonight.

I could not sleep last night, my mind kept on wondering to thoughts of everything from a loft fire to a raccoon getting in the loft. I am sure tonight will be more of the same. 

I kept the birds in this morning. I will basket them about 5:00 pm… If anyone has any advice or good wishing before then, let me know and I can pass it on to the birds. 

Again good luck everyone…


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

conditionfreak said:


> I guess I am having a brain fart today Warren. Because I can't wrap my head around the point you are trying to make in the first part of your posting. I just don't understand if you are addressing the "late entry" situation, or some other point.
> 
> Anyway. If two prize fighters are going at it today and I "bet" on one of them, and I win. What bragging rights do I have? That I knew which was the better fighter of the two? That I won some money?
> 
> Now, if I was the trainer or the father of the winner, then I would have some bragging rights coming my way. But there are no bragging rights, IMO, due to someone who just "picks". Especially if they pick the favorite or one of the favorites. Picking SFL's in the Winners Cup would be a no brainer. Right?
> 
> (man I hope I don't lose my "junk" this weekend)


 I don't know if there was a point, I was just trying to figure out what people were talking about...trying to piece together the posts, trying to figure out what this late entry thing was all about. Still not sure what the issue is about, but it is not a concern of mine. Two late entries, a hundred late entries, not difference to me. 

You would have the same bragging rights, as you would if you attended a horse race, and happened to pick the first three winning horses and the order they cross the finish line. That and whatever prize money is awarded for being able to do that. I would think it is not so much the bragging rights, as it is what you can buy with the money. I mean bragging rights are all nice and everything, but it don't pay for no pigeon feed, and it don't pay for my bar tab. 

If my junk gets lost, then I saved the money I would have spent to have them shipped back home after these series of races. If they win, well I am happy then for the skill of the handler, as I suspect from all these posts, messages, and video's, that he is a better handler then I am.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

I kind of agree, If you got the best bird, it should be able to beat all the loft birds, all the club birds and all the combine birds. I do suspect we will get a sizable drop on both the A and B races. In other words the shorter races should be a lot of "equal firsts". A trapping contest. I think the longer or tougher races will separate the good from the average. The wind could make this one interesting though.

Also would not mind to see how all our birds stand up against Flaps.


----------



## luckyloft

Tom, just wanted to send you a THANK YOU for all you have done for this race.You have put alot onto it and If the Luckyloft does not show up Sat. I have really enjoyed the ride.GOOD LUCK to everyone. Thanks again, Jeff


----------



## Airbaby

conditionfreak said:


> Well. My 1st race results are in. I got second in my club, but only 33rd, 34th and 35th in the Combine. In the top ten percent, but I gotta do better.
> 
> I only have 13 young birds for the season. Can't afford to lose more than 5 before the final money race of the year. I have to make wise decisions about weather, etc. (Skinny Krappy bird was 35th, and in the top ten percent)
> 
> Release(A): 07:25 Birds: 393 Lofts: 19
> 
> 33 THOMAS, WA/13 5421 AU 10 I RC C 09:31:02 103.124 13.40 1440.088 68
> 34 THOMAS, WALT 182 AU 10 TCC C 09:31:06 2/ 13 13.44 1439.327 67
> 35 THOMAS, WALT 376 IF 10 HIP BBWF C 09:31:13 3/ 13 13.51 1437.996 66


Thats movin right along...over 1400 YPM....were suppose to have a 10-15 mph tailwind tomorrow so we will probably have about the same, last week we were at 1100YPM with Fog and slight headwind


----------



## conditionfreak

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> I would think it is not so much the bragging rights, as it is what you can buy with the money. I mean bragging rights are all nice and everything, but it don't pay for no pigeon feed, and it don't pay for my bar tab.
> 
> :


Warren. I guess your initial thoughts about this competition were probably correct and best for you (not entering because you had nothing to gain and a lot to lose). But this competition has been put together and advertized for ONLY bragging rights. Nothing else and only that.

If I win every race from here to the end, (like that would happen  ), no it won't put one grain of feed in my bucket, or one dime in my pocket.

But it will mean a lot to me.

So....if one of my birds does happen to luck out and beat one of your birds in a race, then I hope you understand when I fill the page with smiley graemlins and talk just a little smack down.

Because that is what this competition is all about, and nothing else.

Unless of course, your birds beat mine, and you do not mention "cream rising to the top", or "boys getting separated from the men". Then maybe I won't brag if given the chance. But then, what would be the point of this competition, if there was no bragging and swaggering?

Gonna be fun reading this thread over the next couple of days. Or not.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

I watched Warren's video. He was already celebrating how well his birds are doing in training. The family reason was just a front. From what I know of Warren, if his birds win he will write a book. Now on the other hand, If my bird and half bird ever get their poop together, I will win with dignity and praise only the birds of others. Even the whitish birds other than my whitish bird.
If Ace wins, I promise not to accuse him of swapping one of his birds with one of mine at shipping. 
If the white birds win, I will not accuse the driver of the shipping trailer in thinking the bird was a wild dove and throwing it out early. 
And if Becky wins, I will not make the claim that they let the Junior birds out 30 minutes earlier than the rest.
Lastly, if my bird gets lost, I will not accuse Flap of eating cornish game hen last night. 
So good luck to all and hope to see your birds in the early afternoon.


----------



## TAWhatley

ROFL! I LOVE this thread. Continued wishes of good luck to all who have birds entered in this very, very special competition!

Terry


----------



## jpsnapdy

Flapdoodle said:


> I know to some of you this race is worth about the price of admission. To me however, in my little world, this is bigger then sun city, winners cup, world ace challenge or any other one loft. This 8-week series is the big dance, the super bowl of pigeon racing.
> 
> We will have a winner out of those that have birds from the forum, as long as we get birds back from the first race.
> ...
> I could not sleep last night, my mind kept on wondering to thoughts of everything from a loft fire to a raccoon getting in the loft. I am sure tonight will be more of the same...
> 
> I kept the birds in this morning. I will basket them about 5:00 pm… If anyone has any advice or good wishing before then, let me know and I can pass it on to the birds.
> 
> Again good luck everyone…


Hi Flap,
I can understand how you must be feeling. Once again, you're doing just fine. Stay on top of it all!
And Good Luck to you all!
JPS


----------



## Flapdoodle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYjKwi__IIw

Hi guys, it is a little long, basically wanted to show you what shipping night is like at my club… good luck everyone.


----------



## Flapdoodle

The guy to beat in my club is the one I hand the first bird. He was #2 Champion Loft for all of the AU in 2008 YB. 

There are a few guys that fly the Bieche system. Their birds are all molted out and look great. In order for it to work you need to have Jan banded babies. We should be there in a couple of weeks.

Anyway enjoy the video...


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

hillfamilyloft said:


> I watched Warren's video. He was already celebrating how well his birds are doing in training. The family reason was just a front. From what I know of Warren, if his birds win he will write a book. Now on the other hand, If my bird and half bird ever get their poop together, I will win with dignity and praise only the birds of others. Even the whitish birds other than my whitish bird.
> If Ace wins, I promise not to accuse him of swapping one of his birds with one of mine at shipping.
> If the white birds win, I will not accuse the driver of the shipping trailer in thinking the bird was a wild dove and throwing it out early.
> And if Becky wins, I will not make the claim that they let the Junior birds out 30 minutes earlier than the rest.
> Lastly, if my bird gets lost, I will not accuse Flap of eating cornish game hen last night.
> So good luck to all and hope to see your birds in the early afternoon.


LMAO !!! You are way too funny !!


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

conditionfreak said:


> Warren. I guess your initial thoughts about this competition were probably correct and best for you (not entering because you had nothing to gain and a lot to lose). But this competition has been put together and advertized for ONLY bragging rights. Nothing else and only that.
> 
> If I win every race from here to the end, (like that would happen  ), no it won't put one grain of feed in my bucket, or one dime in my pocket.
> 
> But it will mean a lot to me.
> 
> So....if one of my birds does happen to luck out and beat one of your birds in a race, then I hope you understand when I fill the page with smiley graemlins and talk just a little smack down.
> 
> Because that is what this competition is all about, and nothing else.
> 
> Unless of course, your birds beat mine, and you do not mention "cream rising to the top", or "boys getting separated from the men". Then maybe I won't brag if given the chance. But then, what would be the point of this competition, if there was no bragging and swaggering?
> 
> Gonna be fun reading this thread over the next couple of days. Or not.


 If you guys think my head is already swollen, then just wait and see how this Rooster struts around, should one of my birds find a short cut home ! 

And you are correct, if I had any hopes or asperations of becoming yet another pigeon merchant, then a lost bird or two..or three...or a slow bird or two or three....won't be the kind of PR that one would want to put on the cover of the RPD. But, then again, not sure any of these other events I am in this year, will offer even half the fun I have enjoyed on here already. I'm just hoping that they do well enough so as not to embarrass their fellow loft mates back home and in other events around the country. After all we do have a reputation to try and uphold ! Then again, maybe...just maybe....folks will buy the story my PR agent has suggested, that if I do poorly, to simply blame it all on Karen !


----------



## Big T

Well, This is fun and funny. My little bird cannot fly cause I was too cheap to pay three dollars for shipping and used NPA bands. I will not make that mistake again. Let's be honest folks, when the results from the race comes back we all are going to be reading some good excuses and bragging. I do not even have a bird in the race and I'm so enjoying this thread. This is the beginning of what Flap has worked so hard for us to enjoy. Thank you for everything Flap and the next eight weeks are going to be a beautiful time. Good or bad still a beautiful time.

God Bless all and fair winds for the racers,
Tony


----------



## conditionfreak

According to phone conversations with the other flyers in my club (which can admittedly sometimes be misleading), I just won a 1st place Club diploma with a bird I got from Ace in the Hole. LCC 457 came in alone. Dragging his wing tips on the ground and panting like crazy. It took him ten seconds to trap. It was a 150 mile race. I won't know about the Combine results for a couple days or so.

Even if I didn't win 1st place, I know I did very well with this bird. Thanks Ace.


----------



## Flapdoodle

Clock is ready, awaiting birds,

Quick weather update
Fernley NV partly cloudy 8 MPH NW wind
Reno NV partly cloudy 11 MPH NW wind
Truckee CA cloudy 16-26 MPH SW wind
Colfax CA cloudy 11-19 MPH SE wind
At the loft for Lincoln cloudy 17-23 MPH SE wind

Our club is in good position as far as the wind goes. We are on the north end of the combine. My loft is on the south end of the club. 

The good news is the temp is low, but they will have to work to get here in the wind. I was hoping for a 118 easy training toss to get ready for the 170+/- next weekend.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Well my bird should be arriving any minute. He will get all the peanuts and safflower picked over so all yous birds don't get too fat.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

conditionfreak said:


> According to phone conversations with the other flyers in my club (which can admittedly sometimes be misleading), I just won a 1st place Club diploma with a bird I got from Ace in the Hole. LCC 457 came in alone. Dragging his wing tips on the ground and panting like crazy. It took him ten seconds to trap. It was a 150 mile race. I won't know about the Combine results for a couple days or so.
> 
> Even if I didn't win 1st place, I know I did very well with this bird. Thanks Ace.


That bird must of had some of my bloodline in it. Ha Ha. I am sure ACE will fill us in.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Gah I'm so excited!  And LOL Randy!


----------



## pattersonk2002

*Race day*

I never thought I would let this get to me as much as it is today. Now I am sittting here reading the guy to beat is using the Bieche methiod WTF is that, Now I wish I would have had Tom shave my birds head and put some of that K jelly stuff on it, I would think the clock would not even know he was in the loft yet.
GEEZE this is taking more years then the kids did, I sure hope Tom can post tonight because my wife is not going to like me sitting here all night. >Kevin


----------



## ace in the hole

hillfamilyloft said:


> *That bird must of had some of my bloodline in it. Ha Ha.* I am sure ACE will fill us in.


Wishfull thinking there Randy.

The Father to this bird is 1/2 Inbred Good Old H.V.R. (from John Smith) and the other 1/2 is SFL. I know some of you have heard of that Warren Smith guy.

Let's see the hen is a bird I just received last fall from a guy out west of here. She is AU 09 LL 338. Well I'll be a son of a ***** ( female dog). The mother of this bird did come from that Randy Hill guy.

So this bird is 1/2 Smiths' & 1/2 Hill with a little twist of Ace In Tha Hole. 

If it is a winner the one thing I need to know as soon as you are sure Walt is if it is a hen or a cock bird.

Good job in the training Walt. 

Ace


----------



## hillfamilyloft

ace in the hole said:


> Wishfull thinking there Randy.
> 
> The Father to this bird is 1/2 Inbred Good Old H.V.R. (from John Smith) and the other 1/2 is SFL. I know some of you have heard of that Warren Smith guy.
> 
> Let's see the hen is a bird I just received last fall from a guy out west of here. She is AU 09 LL 338. Well I'll be a son of a ***** ( female dog). The mother of this bird did come from that Randy Hill guy.
> 
> So this bird is 1/2 Smiths' & 1/2 Hill with a little twist of Ace In Tha Hole.
> 
> If it is a winner the one thing I need to know as soon as you are sure Walt is if it is a hen or a cock bird.
> 
> Good job in the training Walt.
> 
> Ace


338 is a Daughter of Buzz. Her sister bred the 3rd in our 300 mile Futurity last year. I am breeding out of four siblings this year. I will let you know how their offspring do. Buzz has been a great breeder for me. Let me know if you want more of the blood Condition. I may have a few extra.


----------



## Flapdoodle

Congrats Xueoo 1st by at least 4 minutes, they have been coming in solo and in small groups, we have had wind gusts and a little rain, still out 9 birds as of 1:00. I am at soccer, I will post the full results later today... This trying to post from the phone sucks


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

ace in the hole said:


> Wishfull thinking there Randy.
> 
> The Father to this bird is 1/2 Inbred Good Old H.V.R. (from John Smith) and the other 1/2 is SFL. I know some of you have heard of that *Warren Smith *guy.
> 
> 
> 
> Ace



Yep....it happens all the time....somebody lucks out and get's their hands on a SFL banded bird, and then all hell breaks loose within their combine. Even the fact that the blood is diluted by 1/2 can't stop those super duper SFL racing genes from going to the TOP !  

Good JOB there ACE !


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Get this LL 338 was 15th at 150 miles against 364 birds in Albuquerque. Like breeds Like. With the Buzz blood and the HVR blood it is liable to do good in the longer distances. And we all know what SFL birds do at 300 miles. Buzz is bred to a granddaughter of the 2001 Snow Bird winner. There is some good stuff in that bird. Keep us posted on how it does. 

Just killing time until Flap sends us some info.


----------



## conditionfreak

457 is a blue bar cock bird. On the large side of medium.

Congrates to Xueoo. I just hope the birds name is easier to pronounce. :

Congratulations dude!


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Flapdoodle said:


> Congrats Xueoo 1st by at least 4 minutes, they have been coming in solo and in small groups, we have had wind gusts and a little rain, still out 9 birds as of 1:00. I am at soccer, I will post the full results later today... This trying to post from the phone sucks


That Bird was a wire hit bird July 12. Interesting to know if It went on all the training or was in sick bay some of the time. Anyway it did good today on what sounds like a tough race. Sounds like a strong tough bird. Congrats.


----------



## ace in the hole

*Way to go Xueoo!!!!!!!!!!!!!*


----------



## Flapdoodle

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/zWfpccD4eF_PgRDqwiKvzICFDku-ifh09JS1tkEoxXE?feat=directlink

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/2BBJDut38Y4B2nvLD6HbioCFDku-ifh09JS1tkEoxXE?feat=directlink

This is all I can get to right now... hope you can read it!


----------



## Guest

Flapdoodle said:


> http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/zWfpccD4eF_PgRDqwiKvzICFDku-ifh09JS1tkEoxXE?feat=directlink
> 
> http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/2BBJDut38Y4B2nvLD6HbioCFDku-ifh09JS1tkEoxXE?feat=directlink
> 
> This is all I can get to right now... hope you can read it!


seems like the birds did very well this first race  did the last 9 ever come in yet ?


----------



## conditionfreak

Best I can make out is the following:

166 birds from 9 lofts.

Jedds 15253 was first PT, 6th Club.

LCC 465 was 2nd PT, 19th Club.

AUB 325 was 3rd PT, 28th Club.

SFL 241 was 4th PT, 34th Club

TRC 47 was 5th PT, 35th Club.

AIRB 33 was 6th PT, 37th Club.

TRC 665 was 7th PT, 51st Club.

TRC 45 was 8th PT, 52nd Club.

LCC 464 was 9th PT, 57th Club.

AUB 325 was 10th PT, 75th Club.

COV 100 was 11th PT, 85th Club.

SFL 245 was 12th PT, 105th Club.

This may be wrong for sure. because I can't make some of it out.

Lots of birds not clocked. Where's my #108!!!


----------



## hillfamilyloft

ace in the hole said:


> *Hillfamilyloft's* Buzz's Perfection was bred with TG's Blue Magic. Buzz's Perfection's children and grand children have flown well with 1st place wins and many top 10% placements. TG's Blue Magic raced well as a young bird with 2nd and 3rd places in the club. This is her first year breeding. One of the two birds sent from this pair was lost wile the birds were being settled.
> 
> *I also sent two birds for **K2RMX.ROB* both are bluechecks.
> The hen for this nest mate pair of young is also from *Hillfamilyloft*. See Randy, you have a better showing here than you thought. Her name is Blue Wonder. She is Wonder Miller, Engels and Silverado loft blood. she has produced some real good racers with the above mentioned "Buzz's Perfection". The sire to this pair of young is a Superschellens who as a young bird flew seven races placing 4th, 5th, 6th, 10th, 10th, 11th and 115th. Bred with another hen last year produced birds with top 10% placements.
> 
> The two birds I sent for myself are a nest mate pair of young from TG's Super16 & TG's Wild Blue (the TG stands for Top Gun Loft). They both flew great as young birds. Super16 had a 1st pace win and four top *5%* placements. Wild Blue had a 1st place win and four top *10%* placemants. This is their first year together. I could not tell for sure what bluebar was mine but the *red # 20 *in this pigeon show must be my 460.


Well another bird bred by ACE with Hillfamily blood made a showing. K2RMX made a decent showing. Not bad for a bird that trained like poopy. Condition, this bird is the same blood as your best this weekend.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

If I am not mistaken Blue Wonder is a sister of "BUZZ"


----------



## ace in the hole

hillfamilyloft said:


> Well another bird bred by ACE with Hillfamily blood made a showing. K2RMX made a decent showing. Not bad for a bird that trained like poopy. *Condition, this bird is the same blood as your best this weekend*.



Randy,

K2RMX's bird does have your blood in it but now the same blood.

This bird is from a Super Schellens cock ( Imported Schellens & H.V.R. Cross) 

AND 

"Blue Wonder" AU 07 DRO 1364. She is 50% Engels, 25% Wonder Miller and 25% Silverado Loft ( the late Bob Kinney ) 

I had her bred to Buzz's Perfection the last two years. He is a son of Buzz. 

Ace


----------



## Flapdoodle

I missed a third page:

LCC 461 12:13:23 109 place 
I 18800 12:42:32 118 place

16/19 made it before I pulled the plug to get the clock to the club

an hour before sunset I hooked the clock back up we had 6 more birds. 

From PT:

SFL 247 Late
COV 108 MIA
SPO 612 MIA

My birds:

5 Late
1 MIA 

I sent 38 still out 3 total... 

I guess there was a problem at the club with one of the clocks, one flyer is not on the sheet, an updated results sheet will get emailed. In a couple of days the club and combine results will also be up on AU website. Thanks Walt for the breakdown... I will get to a spreadsheet after I get the final results.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Becky
Those TRC birds are looking pretty solid. I always thought you were the one here to beat.


----------



## Guest

Flapdoodle said:


> I missed a third page:
> 
> LCC 461 12:13:23 109 place
> I 18800 12:42:32 118 place
> 
> 16/19 made it before I pulled the plug to get the clock to the club
> 
> an hour before sunset I hooked the clock back up we had 6 more birds.
> 
> From PT:
> 
> SFL 247 Late
> COV 108 MIA
> SPO 612 MIA
> 
> My birds:
> 
> 5 Late
> 1 MIA
> 
> I sent 38 still out 3 total...
> 
> I guess there was a problem at the club with one of the clocks, one flyer is not on the sheet, an updated results sheet will get emailed. In a couple of days the club and combine results will also be up on AU website. Thanks Walt for the breakdown... I will get to a spreadsheet after I get the final results.


just like a SFL bird to make a late appearance on one of the shorter races


----------



## hillfamilyloft

hillfamilyloft said:


> If I am not mistaken Blue Wonder is a sister of "BUZZ"


She is a cousin of Buzz. Dams are sisters. The sisters are down from a great breeder "08". She was a World of Wings birds out of two Bob Kinney birds. Nice to see his bloodline live on.


----------



## conditionfreak

I sure hope my #108 comes home in the morning.

I didn't know that raace results are on the AU (ARPU) website. I can not find any there.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Flap how did your birds do in the B race?

I would not count those SFL bird out after what would be a training toss if this was a futurity race. 

Next week will be another race. I really think the weather was the major factor in this race. Birds coming in one at time. interesting race.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Looks like the short end also pulled the race. Is he off-line from the main pack? I think the birds must have visited a few lofts first being the long in.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

The Long End


----------



## MaryOfExeter

hillfamilyloft said:


> Becky
> Those TRC birds are looking pretty solid. I always thought you were the one here to beat.


I'm so happy! I'm just glad my birds made it back  And Jeff's bird is keeping up too. Great to see TRC still pulling through 

Congrats to Xueoo and everyone else who made it back! 



Oh, by the way, I believe my bird brought in that SFL bird, but mine just had so much energy, she couldn't stop herself, so Warren's got through first  Either that, or his kicked mine off the loft so he could trap before she did. LOL


----------



## luckyloft

Looks like a pretty tough race, They got split up for sure.Glad to see most made it back, I think the next race they will have gotten over the shock of the first race.Thankful mine made it back.Now on to next week.Conditionfreak I think you may have missed a Airbaby bird 37th in the club. Jeff


----------



## conditionfreak

Thanks for the heads up LuckyLoft.

Where's my 108??? Sabotage I tell you. Shenanigans!!!


----------



## ace in the hole

Hey, Flap

I read your postings about putting two of your birds in the A races with the PT birds. That got me ta thinkin................. I know if it were me I would want to know what my birds would do againt all of these other birds. 

As the races go on there will be lost birds and birds that are not fit enough to send. I for one would not mind if you slid some of your birds into the A races with our birds. I would like to know how they fair as well. If you always send them in seperate races we will never know.

What do you all think? 

You are doing a great job with them, just keep it up--Please  

Ace


----------



## MaryOfExeter

I personally don't care if Tom's other birds join ours on the A race. I don't think it makes that big of a difference. If the birds are gonna come home, they'll come home.


----------



## Xueoo

Thanks for all the congrats. 

Good to know my "bred for stock" bird can hang with real racers. Also good to see how they fly on the clock. Like I've said before, my birds haven't raced on a clock for a long long time, so this is a good first step. 

Long season ahead and you never know what will happen. Might just be a fluke. From my own testing, these particular Janssen/Van Loons can fly 150 miles with 8-10 hours on the wing.


----------



## conditionfreak

If it is racing, it ain't bred for stock.


----------



## k2rmx.rob

Congrats to Xueoo for First place, and to Ace in the Hole for supplying the Second place winner.


----------



## Flapdoodle

*combine results and some video*

Combine Results

I don't know if that will work or not. You should be able to see both the A & B race. At the end of the document you can see individual bird standings overall. As well as where we stand as a loft (7th of 28). Champion YB report, Overall average speed, and Champion Loft.

I also have a long video that does not show very much:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmCfsMvRDZw

I will try to get some of my thoughts on the race at some point.


----------



## Flapdoodle

pattersonk2002 said:


> I never thought I would let this get to me as much as it is today. Now I am sittting here reading the guy to beat is using the Bieche methiod WTF is that, Now I wish I would have had Tom shave my birds head and put some of that K jelly stuff on it, I would think the clock would not even know he was in the loft yet.
> GEEZE this is taking more years then the kids did, I sure hope Tom can post tonight because my wife is not going to like me sitting here all night. >Kevin


Kevin... it's done, I will take a picture and post it. It makes the bird look real mean


conditionfreak said:


> I sure hope my #108 comes home in the morning.
> 
> I didn't know that raace results are on the AU (ARPU) website. I can not find any there.


Walt, no 108 yet, SPO 612 rolled in at about 9:30 this morning. We are out two from the loft COV 108 & AUB 304

AU website, tab on the left side of the main homepage "National Database", some clubs and combines post, not all of them do. 

You can look up previous years results as well as current. Yesterdays results are already up for the combine not the club. 

http://pigeon-ndb.com/race_reports.php?TypeReport=WEEKLY_REPORT_QUERY&season=2010yb


hillfamilyloft said:


> Flap how did your birds do in the B race?


B Race in the club I was 8,14,16,17,34,37,60,64,75,82,84,87,92



ace in the hole said:


> Hey, Flap
> 
> I read your postings about putting two of your birds in the A races with the PT birds. That got me ta thinkin................. I know if it were me I would want to know what my birds would do againt all of these other birds.
> 
> As the races go on there will be lost birds and birds that are not fit enough to send. I for one would not mind if you slid some of your birds into the A races with our birds. I would like to know how they fair as well. If you always send them in seperate races we will never know.
> 
> What do you all think?
> 
> You are doing a great job with them, just keep it up--Please
> 
> Ace


Thanks for the offer, I think they are split pretty good as is. I did put two AUB birds in that I had in the show. As far as a good job... will see it is still very early but I am having a great time with this


----------



## MaryOfExeter

My bird made the combine list  I'm sorry if I sound bragging-ish but this makes me really happy to see my bird still alive and kicking all the way out there. Gives me even more confidence in its parents, one of which is a brand new breeder for this year from bbcdon


----------



## Xueoo

I was looking at the AU database and it looks like our race was a tough one compared to some othersr, with ypm at 1100 vs some at 1300-1500 ypm. Our standing in the combine is also not bad.


----------



## Flapdoodle

hillfamilyloft said:


> Looks like the short end also pulled the race. Is he off-line from the main pack? I think the birds must have visited a few lofts first being on the long end.


We are on the long end of the club, short on the combine. We have a 30 mile front on the club, about 70 for the combine. Our club is on the north end of the combine, my loft is one of the south on the club. We are in a real good position as far as that goes. 

Marty is the guy that took the A race in the club. If I daw a line from the release point to our loft, Marty is with in a half mile of that line just short of us. A side note he flies on the dark system, he said he has a few birds on eggs.

Joyce took the B race in the club. She had the first 7 positions I had the 8th. Her loft is south of us about a mile. Her birds are 100% molted out, both body and wing. 

On race day. I had a group of 10 birds fly right over the house, two dropped and trapped in our loft the rest kept going. We also had one bird stop after ours trapped and drank from the pond and then took off, another stopped in the pasture at a sprinkler, the one bird from the video that stoped, another group came in one of ours trapped and three cirlced then went south. Just saying we are in a pretty good loft position on race day.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

MaryOfExeter said:


> My bird made the combine list  I'm sorry if I sound bragging-ish but this makes me really happy to see my bird still alive and kicking all the way out there. Gives me even more confidence in its parents, one of which is a brand new breeder for this year from bbcdon


Becky you are wise beyond your years. Not looking at the racer, but the pair that bred the bird. This race series will be a good test for any bird.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Like to see the birds doing well against the Dark system birds. What I find racing against the dark system is that they are hard to beat and they have numerous birds on the drop. Getting a bird up there with them says a lot about the birds. Last year I had second high points bird against two lofts that flew dark. He was surrounded by the birds from one of the loft on the race sheet. Says a bunch for your 8th bird and the JEDD bird. They hung with the dark system fully molted birds. Great birds can beat good methods. In my opinion average birds do not stand a chance against average dark system birds.


----------



## luckyloft

Flap, just wanted to let you know I was showing your videos to some guys at work and they said it reminded them of a documentary.maybe when this thing is over you could put them all togeather and have your on pigeon movie.Thanks Jeff


----------



## hillfamilyloft

What does next week look like for distance and release point?


----------



## Action

*Combine*

This is a tough combine to fly. Seems when you fly east the birds just want to head north so the northern end always seems to do better. not sure where Flapdoodle's loft is but you all have been flying very well againsted some very good flyers. Good luck to you all.
Jack


----------



## hillfamilyloft

conditionfreak said:


> According to phone conversations with the other flyers in my club (which can admittedly sometimes be misleading), I just won a 1st place Club diploma with a bird I got from Ace in the Hole. LCC 457 came in alone. Dragging his wing tips on the ground and panting like crazy. It took him ten seconds to trap. It was a 150 mile race. I won't know about the Combine results for a couple days or so.
> 
> Even if I didn't win 1st place, I know I did very well with this bird. Thanks Ace.


How did LCC 457 end up doing?


----------



## hillfamilyloft

hillfamilyloft said:


> How did LCC 457 end up doing?


What is the club and combine you are flying in?


----------



## conditionfreak

hillfamilyloft said:


> What is the club and combine you are flying in?


457 got 1st Club. 99 birds (we have had heavy losses in YB's and training). Combine results won't be in for another day or so (I hate the wait).

I fly with the Covington, Ky club and the Combine is the Greater Cincinnati.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

conditionfreak said:


> 457 got 1st Club. 99 birds (we have had heavy losses in YB's and training). Combine results won't be in for another day or so (I hate the wait).
> 
> I fly with the Covington, Ky club and the Combine is the Greater Cincinnati.


To give the bird a little mojo while you are waiting for the results. Its Great Great Grandpappy was "David's Perfection". A pretty good bird of Vic Millers. He was 1st 400 miles Cleveland Section 19th federation 1848 birds, and 1st 500 miles Cleveland Section 1st Federation 1901 birds. Having a bit of Ohio blood can't hurt. Thought that might pep you up a bit.


----------



## Flapdoodle

hillfamilyloft said:


> What does next week look like for distance and release point?


178 miles from Lovelock NV. The same basic line of flight just further out, maybe a bit north of last weekend. Weather looks clear not as much wind, just hot. 

I see the club results are up on the AU:

http://pigeon-ndb.com/race_reports.php?Org=¤None¤&DateRace=0&season=2010yb

@ Mike if your still following along, your two birds 300 & 1408 stink, they were not even home in time for clocking... I guess the spreadsheet data with the two measly tosses didn't mean jack. Maybe after a few weeks race results you can pick again. 

@ Action: Hope all is well down there with you guys, we miss you "mothers" in the combine.

@ Jeff: You have the same problem as I do. Messing around on the computer when I should be working.  It would be cool to start from the nest and document via video a racing pigeons life maybe next year.


----------



## conditionfreak

Flapdoodle. Thought I would respond to your email on here, so that it can update everyone, all at once.

I think that it would be best, if the members of PT decide to do this or something similar next year. That you handle it. You are doing a much better job with it than I would. I am terrible at putting videos on the internet (actually, have no clue how to do it). Although I can do still pics rather well.

I also believe that you are a better handler/flyer, and I want the birds from all over the country that are sent in for this event, to have the best handler they can get.

I would be happy and proud to do it if you change your mind, but I understand how much you enjoy it and understand your desire to continue doing it next year, and maybe every year (we'll see about that one, huh). 

I will still be providing a trophy for this years winner, and probably next year as well (unless I don't win) (ha ha).

For the other participants. I am not backing out, but Flapdoodle has a desire to continue this into the following year and maybe beyound. I feel that he is, and will do, a better job than I coud, so I am wholeheartly agreeing with his suggestion that he handle it next year.

Good luck to all. I need to order the trophy and want a final agreement as to what it should be inscribed with. I will pay for it and have it delivered at my expense, to whomever wins. Even, ...gulp, er..ah....Warren. (man, that is gonna hurt). 

P.S. I want #108 back safe and sound. Do you hear me mother nature?


----------



## conditionfreak

hillfamilyloft said:


> To give the bird a little mojo while you are waiting for the results. Its Great Great Grandpappy was "David's Perfection". A pretty good bird of Vic Millers. He was 1st 400 miles Cleveland Section 19th federation 1848 birds, and 1st 500 miles Cleveland Section 1st Federation 1901 birds. Having a bit of Ohio blood can't hurt. Thought that might pep you up a bit.


I believe the best birds in the country come from Florida. Next is Ohio. Although there are some pretty good birds in Utah, California and maybe even Pa. also.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

I know I would be more than willing to send more birds Flaps way. I just think we need to make sure his expenses are covered. Gas, Feed etc. That way it will be worth his while and he will get something out of it. It may also be fun to sponsor birds for say $10. Having the proceeds going to buying the trophy and say a local charity. Heck if their is money involved maybe Warren will send some of his best. We could also auction off the winners on Ipigeon etc. to raise money to keep things going. We could also make a prize where the winner could receive a young bird kit from the top dogs the next season. 

Also a thought would be to carry the birds over to old bird season if Flap is flying old birds.

I think we have all enjoyed this.


----------



## Big T

Can we get thru this year's races and pay the man before we plan next year? Also, you want him to do the old birds as well as train new birds. Asking a lot from a man with a wife and daughters. 

God Bless,
Tony

PS Flap, you are doing a great job and set a standard one would find hard to match. Proud of you!!!


----------



## Flapdoodle

My email to Conditionfreak: 

_Hi Walt, 

I keep going out to the loft in the morning and night to check the birds hoping to find 108 clocked in. It has not happened yet. We are missing two from last weekend. I will keep hoping for those two to come in. 

I wanted to ask what your plan was for next year. I get emails from members in the forum asking if this is going to happen next year. I just respond with not sure yet but I think another flyer may do a pt race of some kind. It might make sense to start collected a list of potential emails/breeders. I know it is still very early in the season but if you are not going to do it I would be interested in doing the same format as this year, shipping PT birds as my YB team. With the losses I am not sure how many people would want to send me birds.

Regardless of what you decide to do, after young birds I am going to rehome all the pigeons on the property, racers, breeders, every pigeon. My plan going forward is to not have any birds October after the last race until Feb-March the following year. I love working with the birds and racing, with five kids, birds in three different lofts, plus other activities, I do not have time do participate in all aspects of the sport. What I am going to do is leave the pairing, hatching, banding, all for someone else to do and I just focus on the YB racing. I would have only one loft with young birds that others raised, none of my own birds so no conflicts. This would really help cut back the time I spend but still get my pigeon fix. 

If you decide to do a PT one loft race I would want to make sure I do not pull any birds from your race. If you decide not to do the race I would open my loft up to 30 breeders two birds each just to keep this going in the forum. If you do the PT thing and I would get 10 breeders to each send me six birds sometime around March 1. I fly them out as my YB team and then ship them back after the race. I ran the idea by some of the local guys and I am sure I could get 60 birds locally, but it would also be fun to get a few guys from the forum, without pulling birds from a PT only race if you do one. 

I am just thinking aloud here… do you have any input? 

Good luck this weekend! 

Tom_

Here is all I know for sure:

1.	Pigeon Racing takes a lot of time.
2.	I can’t do it all. I just don’t have the time.
3.	By the end of the YB series I will be getting out of pigeons 100% all my/your racers and breeders will go.

Last week at the club house we had some time to kill. Guys asked why the heck I was filming. We talked about flying other guy’s birds. I have been thinking for a while about a test loft concept. I am going to find homes for all the birds on the property after young birds. I will have no time spent on pigeons October-March which will get me some points with the family. Testing out other breeder’s birds in my club races will get me my pigeon fix. I take birds in the spring to fly out as young birds and get back to the breeders after the races. I don’t spend any time working on pairing, breeders, or babies. The guys in the club said they could/would more then fill my loft. However part of the fun is definitely the forum. All that is a long ways away. We still have a lot of racing ahead of us. Let’s see how the rest of the season shapes up. 

Anyway the focus for me right now is this series. We can work all this other stuff out later. 

Good luck to everyone racing this weekend


----------



## Xueoo

It doesn't have to be one flyer doing this. There can be multiple flyers. It's probably better that way anyways because of the different challenges each course has. I would like to send birds to Flap again and some to others. It's all about fun, and what's more fun than to have your birds in races and talk about it to the world.


----------



## rackerman

I love the PT One Loft Race, don't have birds in it, but I follow it like a book!!! I hope I can join a race next year!! THANK YOU TOM (FLAPDOODLE)! tHIS IS JUST GOING TO GET BETTER................. YOUR DOING A GREAT JOB!!!!


----------



## conditionfreak

If my bird survives the season, I diffinitely want him back home to me.

P.S. My 457 at home, finished a disappointing 7th Combine. 393 birds. One guy had a flock come home earlier. Still proud of him. First to trap today from a 40 miles toss. But he arrived with eight, so no big deal. He was just hungrier I guess.


----------



## First To Hatch

rackerman said:


> I love the PT One Loft Race, don't have birds in it, but I follow it like a book!!! I hope I can join a race next year!! THANK YOU TOM (FLAPDOODLE)! tHIS IS JUST GOING TO GET BETTER................. YOUR DOING A GREAT JOB!!!!


DITTO, if I get YBs from the guys next year I might choose a pair or two to send to someone this looks like fun. Because if I don't train them good and they do horrible my first year, would be nice if I had a winner or two that someone else flew for me...


Shokri


----------



## hillfamilyloft

I know there is a few of us who breed birds but do not have a club to fly in that would love to send birds both to Flap and others to test. I have a few relationships with fliers that I breed birds for. I have a team of 35 flying in ABQ. My flier in ABQ only does Young birds. Great for us to see what the birds will do.


----------



## Crazy Pete

We could also make a prize where the winner could receive a young bird kit from the top dogs the next season. 



I would love to join the fun next year, I have bean following this from the start Flap has done a great job wish i could have sent a bird or 2.
It would make more sence to send the looser a young bird kit the winner already has a good bloodline.
Dave


----------



## pattersonk2002

*looser*



Crazy Pete said:


> We could also make a prize where the winner could receive a young bird kit from the top dogs the next season.
> 
> 
> 
> I would love to join the fun next year, I have bean following this from the start Flap has done a great job wish i could have sent a bird or 2.
> It would make more sence to send the looser a young bird kit the winner already has a good bloodline.
> Dave



I was thinking the same thing, why would a winner need a kit? I was thinking that there should be 3 bottom prises and 3 top. 3 Bottom would be fun for the fact some birds do not make it threw traing and a key chain with a piece of pigeonpooh mounted in plastic inscribed flapdudder 2011 would be something to have, just a thought. I do know if Tom plans on having this next year I am in and will be much more selective in the birds being sent.
As for my one remaining bird, if he makes it threw this I am most definetly going to have him shipped home. To get this far, there has to be some kind of blood to work with. >Kevin


----------



## conditionfreak

Ha Ha. We are like expectant parents, waiting for out first child. Already picking out his college and wife. 

We only have one race under our belts, and a looonngg season ahead of us.

Next year, Flapdoodle will do something similar to this, for the PT forum participants. I will provide a trophy (or two if we decide to give one for "best come back from a hawk attack).

We have plenty of time to work out any details over the winter. That is what so many pigeon flyers do over the winter. Dream, scheme and plan. Pairings, feedings, new training methods, and even purchases.

I do like the pigeon poo key chain idea.  Maybe one for each participant in this competition. Simply inscribed "PT 2010".


----------



## pattersonk2002

*Brd-n-race*



rackerman said:


> I love the PT One Loft Race, don't have birds in it, but I follow it like a book!!! I hope I can join a race next year!! THANK YOU TOM (FLAPDOODLE)! tHIS IS JUST GOING TO GET BETTER................. YOUR DOING A GREAT JOB!!!!


 Russ, don't forget that the bands that where on the birds when I sent mine came from you, I can't help it if the Falcon decided to pair up with the band you chose. (WE) still have a band in the race I think, don't be denieng it before it is over and both are gone LOL. I am not sure where we stand in the combine, I don't see our number but I do think we are racing this weekend and maybe it will show up again. >kevin


----------



## jpsnapdy

Xueoo said:


> Thanks for all the congrats.
> 
> Good to know my "bred for stock" bird can hang with real racers. Also good to see how they fly on the clock. Like I've said before, my birds haven't raced on a clock for a long long time, so this is a good first step.
> 
> Long season ahead and you never know what will happen. Might just be a fluke. From my own testing, these particular Janssen/Van Loons can fly 150 miles with 8-10 hours on the wing.


Congrats on your results Xueooo!
Maybe it goes to show they should be "bred for stock" more often?
JPS ;-)


----------



## conditionfreak

conditionfreak said:


> Ha Ha. We are like expectant parents, waiting for out first child. Already picking out his college and wife.
> 
> We only have one race under our belts, and a looonngg season ahead of us.
> 
> Next year, Flapdoodle will do something similar to this, for the PT forum participants. I will provide a trophy (or two if we decide to give one for "best come back from a hawk attack).
> 
> We have plenty of time to work out any details over the winter. That is what so many pigeon flyers do over the winter. Dream, scheme and plan. Pairings, feedings, new training methods, and even purchases.
> 
> I do like the pigeon poo key chain idea.  Maybe one for each participant in this competition. Simply inscribed "PT 2010".


Listen conditionfreak. This could be huge. This has the potential of becoming world wide. It is already known world wide, I assure you. There may be entries from overseas at some point down the road. Mike Ganus and others as famous and renowned (heck, we even pulled Warran into it, albeit it dragging and screaming), may enter a few years from now, as the word spreads. Just to garner more publicity for his advertizing. I'm telling you, this is just a fledgling competition right now for sure, but has the potential of becoming something big later. Pigeon Talk and/or PigeonBiz.com may get more involved and donate "official" awards. Pigeon Digest may do a story and put the winning bird and Flapdoodle on the cover. "We" could be HUGE!

(okay, I'm getting carried away like that expectant father) (and yea, I am talking to myself here on the forum)


----------



## First To Hatch

conditionfreak said:


> Listen conditionfreak. This could be huge. This has the potential of becoming world wide. It is already known world wide, I assure you. There may be entries from overseas at some point down the road. Mike Ganus and others as famous and renowned (heck, we even pulled Warran into it, albeit it dragging and screaming), may enter a few years from now, as the word spreads. Just to garner more publicity for his advertizing. I'm telling you, this is just a fledgling competition right now for sure, but has the potential of becoming something big later. Pigeon Talk and/or PigeonBiz.com may get more involved and donate "official" awards. Pigeon Digest may do a story and put the winning bird and Flapdoodle on the cover. "We" could be HUGE!
> 
> (okay, I'm getting carried away like that expectant father) (and yea, I am talking to myself here on the forum)


Lol, thats great, but stop giving everyone ideas lol. I see this turning into a 700 bird one loft event lol


----------



## dogging_99

Flapdoodle said:


> 178 miles from Lovelock NV. The same basic line of flight just further out, maybe a bit north of last weekend. Weather looks clear not as much wind, just hot.
> 
> I see the club results are up on the AU:
> 
> @ Mike if your still following along, your two birds 300 & 1408 stink, they were not even home in time for clocking... I guess the spreadsheet data with the two measly tosses didn't mean jack. Maybe after a few weeks race results you can pick again.


Thanks for all your hard work Tom.  I'll be following this to the end, I hope 300/1408 show on the next race.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

I'm excited for this weekend  And the weekend of the 18th (I believe) me and Jeff will be racing again. So much excitement!  My young birds this year are the best I've had yet, flying wise. I guess we'll see if I can beat my record. The only thing I regret this year is not training earlier, but you never know, that could be why they are doing so well? I'll see when they beat everyone in the club


----------



## hillfamilyloft

MaryOfExeter said:


> I'm excited for this weekend  And the weekend of the 18th (I believe) me and Jeff will be racing again. So much excitement!  My young birds this year are the best I've had yet, flying wise. I guess we'll see if I can beat my record. The only thing I regret this year is not training earlier, but you never know, that could be why they are doing so well? I'll see when they beat everyone in the club


Having the yb peak on race day is the goal. I think some fliers start training too soon and burn their birds out early. They do good on the first races, but are finished the later races. the guy in ABQ flying my young birds is training under this don't overdo it theory. We will see what happens. Some of the fliers hit the first race station of 100 miles three times before the first race. In my opinion this makes the first race the 4th.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Well we definitely don't have the gas for that. 50 or 60 miles would probably be where we stop, regardless of when we start. I don't think it's that bad. I think it is good to get them out early, but maybe not train hard until it gets closer to season.


----------



## conditionfreak

Can't wait until tomorrows race. The winds are in my favor.  But I only shipped five birds to this 150 mile race. Letting my money banded birds and auction money birds, have a little rest and recuperation.

Oh yea. Can't wait for the PT race also. Marine Won should do better this time around. (fingers crossed)

Could one of you SFL birds describe what the backside of #100 looks like?


----------



## ace in the hole

conditionfreak said:


> Can't wait until tomorrows race. The winds are in my favor.  But I only shipped five birds to this *150 mile race*. Letting my money banded birds and auction money birds, have a little rest and recuperation.
> 
> Oh yea. Can't wait for the PT race also. Marine Won should do better this time around. (fingers crossed)
> 
> Could one of you SFL birds describe what the backside of #100 looks like?



150 miles, my birds love 150 miles!

Ace


----------



## conditionfreak

I think you just jinxed me Ace. 

457 is one of the five I sent.

It was hot as heck yesterday and today it is windy and 59 degrees. I need one by 11:00 to do well. Later than that and I am in trouble.


----------



## conditionfreak

Well. Clocked my first bird, LCC 457 (from Ace) at 10:49:02. Didn't win though, from what I have heard. Could still win the pool money.

We'll see in a couple of days.

LCC 457 started the year out, always being very late. But as time has went on, he is starting to "get there" better and better. My first bird last week and this week.


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## ace in the hole

conditionfreak said:


> Well. Clocked my first bird, LCC 457 (from Ace) at 10:49:02. Didn't win though, from what I have heard. Could still win the pool money.
> 
> We'll see in a couple of days.
> 
> LCC 457 started the year out, always being very late. But as time has went on, he is starting to "get there" better and better. My first bird last week and this week.


*Way to go! *

*THAT IS FOR BOTH YOU WALT AND LCC 457.*


Now, for the Flaper's PT race. Come on LCC 460 & 461.


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## ace in the hole

Just thought I would throw in a little breeding oops from my loft.

The father to conditionfreaks LCC 457 is 1/2 SFL and 1/2 H.V.R. He is a sleek long cast slate bar with a beautiful head and the only bird in the loft with that look. The hen he is mated to is a daughter of Randy Hill's Buzz.

Now the blue bar splash LCC 464 flying in the PT race for Randy Hill is out of a son of Buzz and a Top Gun Loft BB hen. These birds have produced light BB's and that one BBSPL. Except for their last set of young! Or should I say the hens last set of eggs.

Both young from the T.G. Loft hen's last set of eggs came out to be the same color and even have the same head as the father to conditionfreaks LCC 457. It looks like he and his sister inlaw had a little fling. No DNA test needed Here.

ACE


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## MaryOfExeter

Anxiously waiting results!  Congrats to you guys and your 457!


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## Flapdoodle

We are getting killed today, it is 87, a slight breeze, we are having a tough race, we only have three in so far:

Aub 325 @ 11:24
Trc 45 @ 11:49
Jedds 15253 @ 12:07
I am on the phone, computer issues
Congrats Becky and Xueoo


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## conditionfreak

Ouch! This is going to hurt.


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## MaryOfExeter

Hmmm. Are you 2 or 3 hours behind us? I can't remember where exactly the time zones fall. I hope the others come in soon! But I'm so happy to see one of mine is home!


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## Flapdoodle

Ouch is right, not just us, race secretary called and moved knock off to 6:00, that can't be good.
Airbaby 33, trc 47, sfl 241 & 245 clocked

My computer crashed... Still trying to post with the phone... Keep your fingers crossed for more birds..


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## bbcdon

California is 3 hours behind you Becky.


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## luckyloft

Sounds like a bad one....CONGRATS BECKY!! Glad to see the TRC still in there even if its not me. Jeff


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## MaryOfExeter

Whoops, I knew Cali was 3 hours behind  I kept thinking Flap was in Nevada  But I believe that is where we are flying from? so I'm not completely crazy, ahaha.

And thanks Jeff  I'm very, very happy to see both my birds clocked and are still hangin in there!


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## lmorales4

From what ive read on this post this Xueoo character has got some awesome birds


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## Flapdoodle

*Tough Race*

Still on the iPhone, club results:
1 aub 325
18 trc 45
32 jed 15253
40 sfl 241
50 sfl 245
63 trc 47
66 airb 33
86 cov 100
88 lcc 464
89 airb 31
107 trc 665

193 birds shipped/ 107 home by 6 pm knock off
B race I was 6 13 25 48 51 54 56 59 67 73 77 78 79 86
167 shipped/87 in by knock off

It was a hard day, I hopefully I can get the computer up and working.


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## conditionfreak

Thank goodness. At least my #100 made it home. Hope the rest do.

I guess you won the club. Congrats Flapdoodle. Seems that 325 is gonna be something good.

As for my race. I got 110% returns. Shipped 5 and got back 6. A bird missing for three weeks came home today. Now I am up to 13 young birds. My LCC 457 should be in the top ten percent of the combine, as I figure it. Will see by Wednesday for sure.


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## Xueoo

Congrats to Flap for 1st club and a good B race, and Becky's 18th club is not bad at all.


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## ace in the hole

Just hoping to hear we had good returns this morning.

Ace


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## MaryOfExeter

Congrats on the win Flap and Xueoo  Looks like I know who I want birds from now...LOL.


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## SmithFamilyLoft

Is there a race schedule listed somewhere for this series of races ? Is there a break out anywhere for the loft results, without having to wade through Combine or Club results, but now that I mentioned the club and/or combine race results, where might they be listed and under what names. This may be listed somewhere in the hundreds of posts, but trying to find them in a few easy steps. I know there is an inventory link as well, but was hoping to see it all in one post.


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## Flapdoodle

Good point Warren, I will add links to my signature to make it easier to track down info. 

They are still coming in. We had one late last night, and four this morning. I updated the race results link below. Of those that came in today, two were pt birds. I am out six, four from the A race and two from the B.

Tough race for everybody. We should get cooler weather today so hopefully we get the other six birds.


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## luckyloft

WOW looks like I made it by the chin of his chinny chin chin.If I read it right o'l 665 was the last bird clocked for the club.Guess he was waiting for Flap to cut the clock off before coming home!Well done Flap looks like your bird had a good speed on a bad day.Becky I hope you dont have any brothers or sisters of those 2 back home,bad enough your whopping my but in California but in a couple of weeks you can say you beat me from coast to coast. Jeff


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## ace in the hole

Boy, all I can say right now is OUCH!!


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## conditionfreak

Hey Ace. Got the results from my 150 miles race. 457 got 12th Combine. Not too bad. He is doing very well for the last few weeks. Slow to start but coming on strong.

I only sent five birds and got all back, and all in the top 20 percent. Plus a long missing one came home also. My only red racer. It was in good shape so someone had it in their loft for sure. The two below were in the top ten percent. Only one flyer in my club beat me (with four birds before mine, darn it). He sent twenty five birds to the race.

But the big good news is that Marine Won is STILL IN THE HUNT in the PT competition! Hope your missing birds make it back today.

WinSpeed-1 G C R P A 09/05/10-13:55
Weekly Race Report Page 1
Open and Sportsman Category
Name: 2ND 150L Young Bird Race Flown: 09/04/2010
Release(A): 07:20 Birds: 226 Lofts: 19 Station: CORBIN KY YB10
Weather (Rel) SUNNY, CALM, 55 degrees (Arr) SUNNY, W 14, 72 degrees

12 THOMAS, WAL/5 457 AU 10 LCC BB C 10:49:02 150.875 12.12 1270.325 89
13 EISENHART, CA 69 AU 10 UHWL BKC C 11:01:13 8/ 25 14.16 1262.098 88
14 THOMAS, WALT 105 AU 10 COV 10:50:33 2/ 5 13.43 1261.175 87


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## hillfamilyloft

Looks like survival may be what we are shooting for here. The last bird standing might be what we are looking fore. Good job X guy and Becky. Tough mountain course giving us slow speeds. 

Reminds me of the Grand Junction futurity a few years ago. Buzz's brother Maverick won the 6 race mountain series average speed. 

Definitely need a tough bird for these races. Mountains, heat, wind, and hawks. Tough races. These are not sprint races. See those SFL birds are still coming back. Hope to see some stragglers. 

Randy


----------



## hillfamilyloft

ace in the hole said:


> Just thought I would throw in a little breeding oops from my loft.
> 
> The father to conditionfreaks LCC 457 is 1/2 SFL and 1/2 H.V.R. He is a sleek long cast slate bar with a beautiful head and the only bird in the loft with that look. The hen he is mated to is a daughter of Randy Hill's Buzz.
> 
> ACE


Ace is the Dam of 457 a splash bird? I am breeding out of two splash hens off of Buzz. One bred 3rd 300 mile futurity bird 2008. Sire was off of "08" Might keep some more of these hens back for our breeding. Still believe in the sex linkage thing. Two weeks in a row for 457 might be something here.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Becky is that TRC bird off of mountain birds, or your tough stuff. Let us know the lineage. Might help us on what we send next year if that flies.


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## hillfamilyloft

conditionfreak said:


> Hey Ace. Got the results from my 150 miles race. 457 got 12th Combine. Not too bad. He is doing very well for the last few weeks. Slow to start but coming on strong.
> 87


Condition 
I was curious on what 457's hens side of the family did last year in club races. These would be birds off of BUZZ, His siblings, and direct cousins. Birds also related to four of the birds with Hill blood ACE sent to the PT race. 
Club results top 10 finishes (races of approx 300birds) 7 birds from the family had top 10 finishes. 
9th, 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 19th, 4th, 34th, 15th, 30th, 12th, 28th

I am finding this family is getting stronger from selection. I am also looking for a cross into the family. Looks like ACE has found something in the SFL and HVR birds. 

We might find a super strain out of all these PT birds that are doing well. Even know this blood did not do to well yesterday, they are a pretty sound family. Looks like Flaps and X's bloodline is the best so far for Cali. Don't count out that TRC bird.


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

Flapdoodle said:


> Good point Warren, I will add links to my signature to make it easier to track down info.
> 
> They are still coming in. We had one late last night, and four this morning. I updated the race results link below. Of those that came in today, two were pt birds. I am out six, four from the A race and two from the B.
> 
> Tough race for everybody. We should get cooler weather today so hopefully we get the other six birds.


 I don't know if you have Win Speed available to be able to calculate a Champion Bird and/or Average Speed winner from this PT group of birds or not. I normally would consider these first couple of early races as a warm up for the real thing, but these first couple of races certainly were not blow homes. If the longer races turn out to be tough races like these early ones, we will very soon seperate the men from the boys, as the real girly type pigeons are already gone, so this may turn out to be a real contest !  Never did really think much of those blow home winners who win by a minute or so and speeds of 1700 YPM+.


----------



## Flapdoodle

ace in the hole said:


> Just hoping to hear we had good returns this morning.
> 
> Ace


Ace I was hoping for birds tonight it didn't happen we are still out six.


ace in the hole said:


> Boy, all I can say right now is OUCH!!


ouch is right, two real tough races in a row, almost think it might be good to make this a 7 race series rather then 8, maybe rest a week. Will see how they fly during the week.


hillfamilyloft said:


> Looks like survival may be what we are shooting for here. The last bird standing might be what we are looking fore. Good job X guy and Becky. Tough mountain course giving us slow speeds.
> 
> Reminds me of the Grand Junction futurity a few years ago. Buzz's brother Maverick won the 6 race mountain series average speed.
> 
> Definitely need a tough bird for these races. Mountains, heat, wind, and hawks. Tough races. These are not sprint races. See those SFL birds are still coming back. Hope to see some stragglers.
> 
> Randy


... in the mountains, heat, wind stuff, you forgot sub par pigeon handling skills


hillfamilyloft said:


> Becky is that TRC bird off of mountain birds, or your tough stuff. Let us know the lineage. Might help us on what we send next year if that flies.


what are you talking about next year, you would have to be crazy to send me birds again


----------



## Big T

Flapdoodle said:


> what are you talking about next year, you would have to be crazy to send me birds again


We scrape poop most everyday. We have birds most people think are flying rats. We already are crazy so what do you expect?

Tony


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## ace in the hole

hillfamilyloft said:


> Ace is the Dam of 457 a splash bird? I am breeding out of two splash hens off of Buzz. One bred 3rd 300 mile futurity bird 2008. Sire was off of "08" Might keep some more of these hens back for our breeding. Still believe in the sex linkage thing. Two weeks in a row for 457 might be something here.


No, Randy

His dan is a blue bar.

Her brother Buzz's Perfection is a BBSPL.

The only splash I produced out of them this year is your PT race bird LCC 464.

Ace


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## MaryOfExeter

I've never had my birds race anywhere but here, which is an easy course. I do have a bird in California that has already done a couple 500's as a yearling. Hasn't won anything, but it came home, so I'm proud of it. The birds I sent are not out of that pair, but 45 does have the same dad.

TRC 45's sire is named 3K. He's a McLaughlin SVR. I got him and his half brother for free at the first show auction I went to in the combine. The birds were going for so low, the guy didn't see the point in selling them and gave'em to me. 
The dam is Miss 5042, from Renee (Lovebirds on here). She's a sister to her IF Champion, Skydancer. 5042 is a mix of Jan Aarden and Van Wonroy mostly.
This pair produced my first club winner in 08 

TRC 47 is out of a new pairing I'm trying out this year. The sire is Achiles, which I received from Don (bbcdon). He's a Skylake Sion. I have him mated to my only Sion hen, who is from the Fenoyer family. Her pedigree is extremely vague so I can't really tell you anything other than she should be a "great/good/super/excellent bird"  The babies I've gotten from her have impressed me flying wise, but this YB season will be the first time I'll have tested her. Same goes for Achiles.

So. My two little ******* NC birds are both out of free parents. The other bird in CA also came from birds I got for free. I guess sometimes those "culls" aren't so bad afterall  I'm really excited to see how my birds do in the long run. I have a feeling it isn't going to get any easier.


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## conditionfreak

Goes back to what I have said many times on here, and got ridiculed for. Good birds do not have to cost big money. The difference between huge dollar birds and small dollar birds, is minimal. IMO.

It is mostly about the handler and just dumb luck. Just like humans, hawks like the expensive meat more than they enjoy the cheaper cuts.  Wires and dove hunters can't tell which is which in the air, so they just get one.

Don't get me wrong, there is a difference between good pigeons and great pigeons, but most pigeon merchants have few (if any) great pigeons. They have a bunch of good pigeons that they describe as great (just like an infomercial touting the latest gadget that will make your life sooo much better). 

The best pigeon in the world, could have easily been lost in this competition already.

Dumb luck most often. In a war, there may be soldiers that died, who could have been a huge world renowned hero, and the difference was just one inch to the left or to the right.

Just luck.

How many superstar humans (tennis, basketball, swimming or whatever) have produced children that never excelled in the sport of their parents? A very few. How may superstar humans came out of parents that never did anything in their own lifes, in those respective sports? Most.

My bird, and the rest of the birds still in this competition, have been luckier than those missing.

Here's to luck! The winning lottery ticket costs the same as a losing lottery ticket.


----------



## pattersonk2002

*coming home*

So far this race has been very exciting, I really don't have room to brag but I am very proud of the fact my bird has at least made it back to the loft many times during training and the first two races. I know everybody wants to be the top bird but if mine makes it back home he will get get a velvet lined nest LOL. 

TOM, I was thinking since you shaved his head we could get a tattoo of a rattlesnake on top, I am thinking when the falcons come after him he just wants to play and maybe the tattoo will make them turn away sooner and he will get his vent back to the loft a little earlier. I have good feelings for the birds in next weeks race, for some reason just the name (IMLAY) sounds good since it is the name of the city where I am lucky enough to be employed. Good luck to all, Happy flapen >Kevin


----------



## hillfamilyloft

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> I don't know if you have Win Speed available to be able to calculate a Champion Bird and/or Average Speed winner from this PT group of birds or not. I normally would consider these first couple of early races as a warm up for the real thing, but these first couple of races certainly were not blow homes. If the longer races turn out to be tough races like these early ones, we will very soon seperate the men from the boys, as the real girly type pigeons are already gone, so this may turn out to be a real contest !  Never did really think much of those blow home winners who win by a minute or so and speeds of 1700 YPM+.


Better watch what you say about the girly type pigeons. Becky's TRC is whooping up on those manly SFL pigeons so far. Not bad for a 16-17 year old girly. Watched two female soccer players whoop up on the 12 year old boys this weekend. They both are playing on select boys teams. Just about forgot, If your birds don't show well they are your girly wife's. Ha Ha


----------



## Flapdoodle

LCC 465 came in at 10:30 today. He looks fine. My guess is he has got a girl friend that put him up for a few days and he hung around her loft. I will keep my eye on him and see how he does.


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

hillfamilyloft said:


> Better watch what you say about the girly type pigeons. Becky's TRC is whooping up on those manly SFL pigeons so far. Not bad for a 16-17 year old girly. Watched two female soccer players whoop up on the 12 year old boys this weekend. They both are playing on select boys teams. Just about forgot, If your birds don't show well they are your girly wife's. Ha Ha


Naw...just because a girl owns the birds does not make them "girly" any more then a man owner makes them "manly". The "girly" birds are already gone, they were lost in training or on one of these first couple of races. But, now we must seperate the "manly" pigeons from the "little boy" pigeons...Becky could end up winning all the prizes, it's equal opportunity time, when it comes to breeding good stock. My story is that those manly SFL birds have simply not been stressed enough, and they have yet to come into form. I would rather win the longer events anyway....at least this is my story, and I am sticking with it !! If they don't man up within a race or two, I place the blame squarely on Karen's shoulders, since she goes out there and "baby talks" to the birds and that can turn them a little sissy if you know what I mean...


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## conditionfreak

Ha Ha. Warren, has Karen ever baby talked you?

If so. What was the effect? I mean, besides marriage.

Ha Ha Ha Ha


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Flapdoodle said:


> LCC 465 came in at 10:30 today. He looks fine. My guess is he has got a girl friend that put him up for a few days and he hung around her loft. I will keep my eye on him and see how he does.


Sure glad that bird showed up. Warren was beginning to think My blood was girly or boyish. Also glad Flap thinks he has a girl friend. That even makes him seem more manly.


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## SmithFamilyLoft

conditionfreak said:


> Goes back to what I have said many times on here, and got ridiculed for. Good birds do not have to cost big money. The difference between huge dollar birds and small dollar birds, is minimal. IMO.
> 
> It is mostly about the handler and just dumb luck. Just like humans, hawks like the expensive meat more than they enjoy the cheaper cuts.  Wires and dove hunters can't tell which is which in the air, so they just get one.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, there is a difference between good pigeons and great pigeons, but most pigeon merchants have few (if any) great pigeons. They have a bunch of good pigeons that they describe as great (just like an infomercial touting the latest gadget that will make your life sooo much better).
> 
> The best pigeon in the world, could have easily been lost in this competition already.
> 
> Dumb luck most often. In a war, there may be soldiers that died, who could have been a huge world renowned hero, and the difference was just one inch to the left or to the right.
> 
> Just luck.
> 
> How many superstar humans (tennis, basketball, swimming or whatever) have produced children that never excelled in the sport of their parents? A very few. How may superstar humans came out of parents that never did anything in their own lifes, in those respective sports? Most.
> 
> My bird, and the rest of the birds still in this competition, have been luckier than those missing.
> 
> Here's to luck! The winning lottery ticket costs the same as a losing lottery ticket.


 I agree with every thing you have said. I just want somebody to find me the next great pigeon like 019, which will make me rich and famous like the Janssen Brothers, and get him for me for $5...oh heck ok...$10...and I want you to introduce me to the guy who will sell that great pigeon for $5 or that $10 bill. Most people, when they somehow discover that they own a good pigeon, let alone a great pigeon, are not really interested in selling the bird at any price. Because it would be like selling the goose which laid the golden eggs for $5. It just would not make a whole lot of sense. 

I don't think anyone would debate that some luck plays into this...just like I am sure Tiger Woods has gotten lucky on some shots. But, then you have some birds, that just seem to "get lucky" in several of the right races, and some breeders just seem to have a knack for breeding "lucky" pigeons. This is where a series of races comes into play, because it is possible to get lucky on a race, but after 5 or 6 races, a pattern should emerge, and those with more racing talent should begin to seperate themselves from the average. If one assigns to much "luck" as the reason for a win, then the whole concept of selection based on race results would have to be called into question. 

I have no way of knowing what birds may still be in the loft at the end of this event, but in my way of thinking, every bird which is still in the loft at the end of the last race, of this series of races, will have proven itself, beyond question, as a "Homing Pigeon". And if they were listed in order of their overall performance, from #1 to however many are left, they should be able to demostrate where they fall relative to all the other pigeons in the loft. Anyone who has a bird on that final list IMHO, will have something to feel good about. Because one can say at least their birds made it through a hard series of races. Everyone would like to be #1 and/or #2 but, mathmatically that is impossible for everyone who sent pigeons to be in that spot. But, should we end up on that list, and the higher up the list we are, should give some small indication as to what kinds of birds we are producing out of the pairs we sent young from. And all I can say, is this is a fuun way to measure some of our breeding pairs ! 

PS. I am still not selling my top breeding cock or hen for $5, nor $500, nor $5000 !


----------



## conditionfreak

Ha Ha. Glad you agree with me 100%

Yes, it will be interesting to see the final results. It would be telling if the free birds are right there with the not so free birds, in the end.

As for the bird I have in the competition, I paid $100 each for the parents. Oops, I mean for one of the parents. The other is a feral. That's my story and I am sticking to it. 

I forget how much Ludo Claessens paid for one of his best breeding birds, the "Golden Witten". Oh yea, now I remember. He found it wandering around his yard. It had belonged to a deceased pigeon flyer that had not made a name for himself in the pigeon world. Apparently an average flyer. But Ludo took this pigeon and turned it into a legend. That is talent, and luck. Not money nor pedigree.

My theory is that those who have the money and means to enter the large and exopensive races, are those who have the money and means to buy high dollar birds. Thus, it is a self fulfilling prophecy. High dollar birds win the big races usually. But that is because they are the only birds entered. There are few low dollar birds entered, if any.

Look at it like this. A bird from the same parents as your best, could easily be lost early in the season. Does that mean that the parents are not good for breeding? Does it mean that only a percentage of birds bred from high dollar birds, will bring home the bacon?

Or does it mean the percentage is higher with the high dollar breeders, but low dollar breeders can also produce winners.

I say again. If Ludo Claessens took the birds in my loft and no others, he could still be world famous. Still kick butt anywhere.

Because he knew what the heck was a winning formula. Him, his methods and his tenacity. He didn't care if the bird was high dollar or not (hence why he gave the found bird a chance at breeding). He knew pigeons and how to bring out the best in them.

Me, I don't know pigeons and don't know how to bring out the best in them.

But I do know people and how to bring out the best in them. Watch me do my thing.


----------



## Big T

conditionfreak said:


> But I do know people and how to bring out the best in them. Watch me do my thing.


Now you are starting to sound like my wife. She keeps trying to bring the best out of me and I keep saving it for later.

Breeding, feeding, training; those are the variables we can control. Wires, hawks, weather we cannot. The pigeon must endure all of this to get home. We call it a race, the pigeon doesn’t. The bird just wants to go home.

Tony


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## SmithFamilyLoft

*Ramblings of a Mad Man.....*

I think I am taking us OT here, but as my loft manager is always found of saying, "Great Birds are where you find them"...meaning that they can come from almost any place, perhaps it is a stray, maybe from some unknown loft, it can be anywhere. Great birds are not great birds because of a pedigree, great birds are not defined by how much one has paid for them. 

Now...having said all that, once you can get a fairly large number of fanciers to agree that a pigeon is a "Great" pigeon, because of it's race record, breeding record, looks, etc. etc. And once you get a large number of fanciers who desire to own such a bird in order to advance their colony, well....how can such a bird remain a low value bird ? It can't. The difference between a so called high dollar bird and a low dollar bird, is the number of people who agree on a perception of it's value, desire to own it, and are willing to part with money in order to own it. I would have to think about it a bit, but I think that is true with many things in life, especially things like art work. 

The thing about a One Loft Race, such as this one we are enjoying. Is that all of the fanciers who sent birds, their loft management skills, their skills as a handler, their ideal loft location, their perfectly designed loft, all of those factors are meaningless. It is now a test of the genetic package which was delivered to this event to race. And I guess I should add, that no it is *not* relevant as to what someone paid for the parents, it is relevant as to what genes were passed on to the offspring which are competing in this event.

As for fanciers such as Ludo Claessens, he would have been highly skilled, and I would imagine that he was a great loft manager, and could get the best from his birds. Surely we all know such fanciers in our own Combines, that could win with very average or typical pigeons, and some fanciers are just so poor in their loft management, that the best birds in the world would not help them win races. But, the real skill and gift that Ludo possessed, which IMHO, perhaps only a small handful of fanciers in the world possess, was the ability to look at pigeon, and tell it's real value as a racing pigeon. The reason why he could walk into your loft or my loft, and within a few seasons start to become a champ with them, is he would be able to spot the exceptional pigeon in the loft, and he would get rid of all the rest, and he was not afraid to be the top bidder at an auction, in order to get his hands on an exceptional pigeon. And that is why when he retired, fanciers from around the world wanted a part of his exceptional collection, and why his birds made him a millionaire. He knew the difference between a "good" pigeon and a very ordinary one.


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## conditionfreak

I agree with everything you have said. I just want soemeone to give me the next great pigeon, for nothing or next to nothing.

They may already have.  Time will tell.


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## re lee

Great birds raise bad birds. Thats just a fact. Just a small handful from the best birds in the world will turn out good Or great. same with the 2 dollar bird They can produce a rather good bird from time to time. The best training in the world will only help so much. still the better bird will rise to the top. If it was so easy to just buy the better bird and raise all good birds Then this sport would have died off long ago. The ART of keeping and breeding pigeon has to relate to the minds eye in the breeding loft. And making the right selections when selecting your race teams. 1 loft races is 1 luck of the draw. when you send a bird to that race. It is untested. AND thinking just because it one well in that race event that it may be a great breeder Well it may be a very bad mistake to think that. 1 Is all birds were traned the same. 2 all birds flew to the same loft. 3 all birds had the same distance and same drag to that loft. Many a so called great flyer/person. That has those sought after birds that many pay big dollars for KNOWS that just that 1 or 2 birds will make someone do better. The others would be luck And many would be NO BETTER then you already have. BUT that seller made his money selling birds That he would never raced never bred from. It BIRDx TRAININGx THAT RACE DAY x A LITTLE LUCK Race birds in the US are not raced in the numbers else where SO the unknown great bird that raced in club combine federation may never be known As the bird over seas that flew in a large thousands of bird race THAT was Bought buy someone for lots of money that promoted it to make money .


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## conditionfreak

re lee: you are truly a great pigeon person. Lots of pigeon racing wisdom. Bad typing skills, but lots of wisdom.


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## hillfamilyloft

Bad speller untie. 

I think your birds get judged, not for what they do for you, but what they do for others. In other words, if they only win for you, it might be your skills. If they win for you and others, then it just might be the birds. Ganus made a living with this philosophy and the machine gun approach. (get as many birds out there as possible, to get one champion for someone else). I would personally look for the guy who sends a few birds out each year and wins the big prize. The small lofts that win big. ie. SFL, Ludo, Marcel Sangers, to name a few. The back yard lofts that win. Then it just might be the birds and not dumb luck.


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## dogging_99

Flapdoodle said:


> 193 birds shipped/ 107 home by 6 pm knock off
> B race I was 6 13 25 48 51 54 56 59 67 73 77 78 79 86
> 167 shipped/87 in by knock off
> 
> It was a hard day, I hopefully I can get the computer up and working.


Tom, how did 300 and 1408 do.

Were they late, mia?


----------



## Flapdoodle

dogging_99 said:


> Tom, how did 300 and 1408 do.
> 
> Were they late, mia?


1408 was 67th
300 was 77th

They are both still in the mix.

I will make sure I include the results from the B races (my birds) in case anyone is interested.

The birds are starting to come back around after a real tough day. Loft flying has not been very good around 20-30 minutes Monday and Tuesday. Today they gave me a good hour unflagged. 

I will get them on a couple short tosses tonight and tomorrow. For Saturday, Imlay is 203 miles. It is a 25-mile bump from last Saturday.


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## hillfamilyloft

anyone heard anything?


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## MaryOfExeter

I hope everything is going okay!


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## Flapdoodle

1st SFL 245
2nd AUB 325
3rd Airbaby 31

The birds came in pretty good most were in before 12:00. Click the link PT Results on the left for time and trapping order. The birds felt fat at shipping, not sure how we will stand in the club but the times look good. No training tosses at all this week. My wife left me with all five kids for the weekend. So the birds have taken a back seat. I wasn't around to see them trap. I had three soccer games 11:00, and two at 11:30. Knock off is at 5:00, I will put the club and combine results when I get them. 

Way to go Karen!


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## hillfamilyloft

Flapdoodle said:


> 1st SFL 245
> 2nd AUB 325
> 3rd Airbaby 31
> 
> The birds came in pretty good most were in before 12:00. Click the link PT Results on the left for time and trapping order. The birds felt fat at shipping, not sure how we will stand in the club but the times look good. No training tosses at all this week. My wife left me with all five kids for the weekend. So the birds have taken a back seat. I wasn't around to see them trap. I had three soccer games 11:00, and two at 11:30. Knock off is at 5:00, I will put the club and combine results when I get them.
> 
> Way to go Karen!


Bout time one of those SFL birds lived up to their billing. I think I need to rethink things. Mine is a bench warmer this week. Hopefully he will come back strong. This day late a dollar short thing needs to stop. Oh well congrats Warren. I hope it does well in the combine. Deep down I am rooting for all the PT birds. I have no choice the way mine are performing. NO poop talk this week.

Randy


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## conditionfreak

Well. Marine Won came home. Dodged another bullet this week. Congrats to the early birds.


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## conditionfreak

SFL 245 is improving every week (so is Marine Won) .

AUB 325 seems to be the most consistent bird thus far.

But it is a long season yet to come.

Seems that most of us, sent in birds that have had trouble and birds that are doing okay. Any bird that is still there, has a chance of course. One smash race and kabam! The survivor/s will be king.

My usual Saturday race was changed to Sunday, due to rain. I made LCC 457 my pick bird. Keep your fingers crossed.

Found out today at shipping, that I won money last week. In the buddy pool. whooppee!!! My wife is happy and says that I can race one more week.


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## Flapdoodle

I had 3 or 4 birds in the top twenty % and none in the top ten % this week. I knew last night the birds were heavy, my fault. The fastest bird this week in the club was 1425 YPM. It was a fast race. I will get the club results up tomorrow. 

If you recall before the races started I said the guy to beat was Sierra Ranch/Steve Sterchi. He took the first 10 spots in the A race and the first 12 in the B race. 

He has nailed the feed, molt, and motivation for YB. He is the #2 YB Champion Loft for all of the AU in 2008, 2009.

Good luck Walt/LCC 457.


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## Pigeon0446

Flapdoodle said:


> The fastest bird this week in the club was 1425 YPM. It was a fast race. I will get the club results up tomorrow.


Wow you guys out in cali call 1425ypm speeds a fast race. My race today the winning bird made 1361 and my bird that came in 3rd made 1339. And I would call it an average maybe just a touch slower then average since they had a side wind slightly in their face.


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## hillfamilyloft

Pigeon0446 said:


> Wow you guys out in cali call 1425ypm speeds a fast race. My race today the winning bird made 1361 and my bird that came in 3rd made 1339. And I would call it an average maybe just a touch slower then average since they had a side wind slightly in their face.


Sierras vs Appalations
Has everything to do with the course. Flying over the sierras into Nevada in 100 degree temps with usually a head wind off the ocean. 2000 feet in Nevada to 8000 feet to Sea Level makes a 200 mile race into a 250. flying West to East in Ny gives you a tail wind most of the time. Keep in mind that Warren's birds are also doing 1000 ypm. Birds that do 1600 in Fla and win big money. Comparing speeds on different race courses is like comparing apples and oranges. My birds do 1600 ypm from 7000 to 5000 with little wind and little terrain change. The same birds that are doing 1000 in Cali. Google earth the course or better yet send some birds and see what they do. If they can do 1400 a race you would be winning the combine by three hours.


----------



## Pigeon0446

hillfamilyloft said:


> Sierras vs Appalations
> Has everything to do with the course. Flying over the sierras into Nevada in 100 degree temps with usually a head wind off the ocean. 2000 feet in Nevada to 8000 feet to Sea Level makes a 200 mile race into a 250. flying West to East in Ny gives you a tail wind most of the time. Keep in mind that Warren's birds are also doing 1000 ypm. Birds that do 1600 in Fla and win big money. Comparing speeds on different race courses is like comparing apples and oranges. My birds do 1600 ypm from 7000 to 5000 with little wind and little terrain change. The same birds that are doing 1000 in Cali. Google earth the course or better yet send some birds and see what they do. If they can do 1400 a race you would be winning the combine by three hours.


I didn't say my birds woulda got a better speed then that in that specific race I said I wouldn't call a 1425 speed race a fast race. 1425 speed should be a speed they make with no winds at all. But no matter the course you have to get a blow home race once in a while where the birds make way better speeds then 1425ypm so to call that fast seams funny to me. As for Warrens birds doing good they should do good. A good bird should be able win no matter what speed the race is. But as you say the change in elevation makes a 200 mile race into a 250. Then a race like that the biggest thing to winning is your location. A short ender wouldn't have a chance since the birds will actually be flying alot faster then the speeds say they are flying so if your a short ender your birds can be in the coop clocked already and the long guys birds can fly over your coop after you've clocked and they could beat you. If they have this race again next year I might send a couple one of my family that originated in Montana where they fly over some nasty mountins as well so I'd hope they'd be able to hold up down there in cali.


----------



## conditionfreak

Hey Ace. Well, it's official. LCC 457 I got from you, is my best young bird thus far. It was my first bird home today from the 200. It was also my pick bird.

Unfortunately, it did not win as the guy who has been kicking everyones butt this season, got at least three before me. He also got his pick bird before mine. Darn it.

But I am very happy with 457 and I know he did well in the Combine. I also believe I beat the rest of my club in this race. I bet I did very well in the combine also.

We'll see.

Yep. Best on my young bird team far and away. I sent 7 to this race and don't have any but 457 yet. But he was the only good bird I sent as I rested my money banded birds for next weeks 200. I sent him because I still wanted to win and do well and since he has been consisted the past two weeks, I made him my Ace in in Hole this week, and he came through for me. 

I still hope that the other six come home though. I hate losing birds. Even the lesser racers. Because sometimes a bad young bird can become a good old bird racer.

Your bird is doing well for me and thanks. I will diffinitely want more birds from you next near. 

UPDATE: I might have only got beat by two birds and might have won pick bird money. Should know tomorrow or the next day (man, I hate waiting for results).


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Congrats everyone! I see my two made it home yet again 
Now we'll see how their brothers and sisters do out here this coming weekend!


----------



## Xueoo

At least mine is still in the hunt; 4th at 4 mins behind the leader. I was expecting mine to fall back this week because of the two hard races prior. 

Looks like the birds grouped up this race and any one of those birds could have been #1. Maybe they are starting to be able to find their loft mates and fly together.


----------



## Flapdoodle

I added the combine results for the race below. Even with my over feeding this week we held on to 2nd average speed for the A race. 

The two we didn't have clocked in before knock off showed up late. 

This Saturday we have Winnemucca, Nevada @ 233 miles. 

I will get to the PT spreadsheet tonight, as well as get the club results up. 

Jeff don't hate me, I am having a problem with the clock or chip ring on TRC 665. He would have been in the points in the combine around 66th overall. For some reason the secret number assigned when he was basketed didn't match the one at knock off. It is one of two things, I am trying to cheat or the chip ring is bad. 

I will replace the ring and see what happens.

Hope everyone has a great week and good luck to all racing this weekend!


----------



## conditionfreak

The club and combine results link does not work for me.


----------



## luckyloft

No problem, Its not like he won the race or anything, i fully understand things go wrong.Its kind of the story of my like in pigeon racing.I should have won a young bird race last year in my club but my manual clock malfunctioned.I can see how he did on the spread sheet.OK Becky we have them warmed up now lets get a win this week and California and take care of business at home tour first race is this weekend.Anderson,SC 150 miles for me. Jeff


----------



## Flapdoodle

conditionfreak said:


> The club and combine results link does not work for me.


I don't know why it wouldn't. It seems to be working on my computer and also the iphone. Can someone else verify that it is or isn't working. 

I am pretty sure the results will be up on the AU website. I did see the club results, it will only show birds that were in the points. 

AU Website 2010 YB


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## First To Hatch

Flapdoodle said:


> I don't know why it wouldn't. It seems to be working on my computer and also the iphone. Can someone else verify that it is or isn't working.
> 
> I am pretty sure the results will be up on the AU website. I did see the club results, it will only show birds that were in the points.
> 
> AU Website 2010 YB


It is working but you need to be a member of google or gmail or whatever that stuff is to view it.


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## Flapdoodle

First To Hatch said:


> It is working but you need to be a member of google or gmail or whatever that stuff is to view it.


Thanks...That is lame. I thought it would work without a log in. 

@ Walt or anyone else: I can email the results to anyone that wants me to each week. Just shoot me a PM if you want them emailed.


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## hillfamilyloft

Flap
Did these two make it back? There was not a time on the spread sheet. Thinking they may be lost. 

AU 2010 LCC 464 
AU 2010 SFL 247


----------



## ace in the hole

conditionfreak said:


> Hey Ace. Well, it's official. LCC 457 I got from you, is my best young bird thus far. It was my first bird home today from the 200. It was also my pick bird.
> 
> Unfortunately, it did not win as the guy who has been kicking everyones butt this season, got at least three before me. He also got his pick bird before mine. Darn it.
> 
> But I am very happy with 457 and I know he did well in the Combine. I also believe I beat the rest of my club in this race. I bet I did very well in the combine also.
> 
> We'll see.
> 
> Yep. Best on my young bird team far and away. I sent 7 to this race and don't have any but 457 yet. But he was the only good bird I sent as I rested my money banded birds for next weeks 200. I sent him because I still wanted to win and do well and since he has been consisted the past two weeks, I made him my Ace in in Hole this week, and he came through for me.
> 
> I still hope that the other six come home though. I hate losing birds. Even the lesser racers. Because sometimes a bad young bird can become a good old bird racer.
> 
> Your bird is doing well for me and thanks. I will diffinitely want more birds from you next near.
> 
> UPDATE: I might have only got beat by two birds and might have won pick bird money. Should know tomorrow or the next day (man, I hate waiting for results).


*I am glad to here this bird is doing so good for you.* 

It looks like I should have sent his siblings to the PT race.

The two birds I sent for myself were 100% pure speed. I had intended on having Tom stop them at 200 to 250 but they couldn't handle the 178 under those conditions.

All three pairs that I sent young out of for this race were new pairings. Some times that works and some times it don't.


Ace


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## hillfamilyloft

ace in the hole said:


> *I am glad to here this bird is doing so good for you.*
> 
> It looks like I should have sent his siblings to the PT race.
> 
> The two birds I sent for myself were 100% pure speed. I had intended on having Tom stop them at 200 to 250 but they couldn't handle the 178 under those conditions.
> 
> All three pairs that I sent young out of for this race were new pairings. Some times that works and some times it don't.
> 
> 
> Ace


Buzz's brother raced out to 360miles over Grand Mesa Co. 12K feet up and over. Another daughter of his bred a bird that flew well out to 300. He also bred the 300 mile winner a few years back. My thoughts are the bird with that blood and SFL/HVR blood should make it to distance. 
Next year if we send birds Flaps way, I would like to send birds off of Buzz to see how they fair in the mountains. Definitely takes a tough bird over the mountains. Those HVR fly real well for the Jones boys in the Utah mountains. They might just be the ticket.


----------



## ace in the hole

hillfamilyloft said:


> Buzz's brother raced out to 360miles over Grand Mesa Co. 12K feet up and over. Another daughter of his bred a bird that flew well out to 300. He also bred the 300 mile winner a few years back. My thoughts are the bird with that blood and SFL/HVR blood should make it to distance.
> Next year if we send birds Flaps way, I would like to send birds off of Buzz to see how they fair in the mountains. Definitely takes a tough bird over the mountains. Those HVR fly real well for the Jones boys in the Utah mountains. They might just be the ticket.


I plan on putting Buzz's Perfection and Blue Wonder back together for next year. It was a son of thiers that came in 5th in the club auction race at 325 mi. At the time he was missing tail feathers, on his seventh flights and moulting head feathers bad.

But wait. If I send young from them I'm just sending more Hill birds.


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## TAWhatley

First To Hatch said:


> It is working but you need to be a member of google or gmail or whatever that stuff is to view it.


Hmmm .. it looks like I was able to access the AU link as well as the two others that Flap posted.

Terry


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## Flapdoodle

hillfamilyloft said:


> Flap
> Did these two make it back? There was not a time on the spread sheet. Thinking they may be lost.
> 
> AU 2010 LCC 464
> AU 2010 SFL 247


They both made it back... they just missed knock off. I am shy two birds in the B race, but all the PT birds I shipped made it home.


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## Flapdoodle

dogging_99 said:


> Tom, how did 300 and 1408 do.
> 
> Were they late, mia?


Mike this week... 1408 came in 47th out of 148, 300 was 94th. 

In the B race I was 24,25,26,29,30,33,34,35,47,90,92,94,109,125


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## hillfamilyloft

hillfamilyloft said:


> Flap
> Did these two make it back? There was not a time on the spread sheet. Thinking they may be lost.
> 
> AU 2010 LCC 464
> AU 2010 SFL 247


Ace, don't count out 464. It does have some 300 mile blood in it. I think we will see 464 and 465 again on the race sheet. I would also not count out the SFL 247 bird. I usually see good birds having one bad race during a series. They usually bounce back.


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## dogging_99

Flapdoodle said:


> Mike this week... 1408 came in 47th out of 148, 300 was 94th.
> 
> In the B race I was 24,25,26,29,30,33,34,35,47,90,92,94,109,125


Great! a 20 Bird improvement, are we going to see another 20 bird improvement? the suspense!


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## First To Hatch

TAWhatley said:


> Hmmm .. it looks like I was able to access the AU link as well as the two others that Flap posted.
> 
> Terry


I had to sign in, maybe you already were signed in? I'm usually signed in but wasn't at that time.


----------



## ace in the hole

hillfamilyloft said:


> Ace, don't count out 464. It does have some 300 mile blood in it. I think we will see 464 and 465 again on the race sheet. I would also not count out the SFL 247 bird. I usually see good birds having one bad race during a series. They usually bounce back.


*We will see,*

Your 464 has a better chance than 465 does. The cross of *Super Schellins *and *Engels/Wonder Miller *did not work. Of the five sent out to race from that breeding three of those were lost in training and two of them were lost in less than 20 miles. 

New pairing can be that way. Both of these birds have produced real good racers before but together they were a flop.

Ace


----------



## hillfamilyloft

ace in the hole said:


> *We will see,*
> 
> Your 464 has a better chance than 465 does. The cross of *Super Schellins *and *Engels/Wonder Miller *did not work. Of the five sent out to race from that breeding three of those were lost in training and two of them were lost in less than 20 miles.
> 
> New pairing can be that way. Both of these birds have produced real good racers before but together they were a flop.
> 
> Ace


I would look at each bird individually and see what they have bred you. Was the Schellins the bird I bred from last season? I will see what the young out of that pair using him did. May be just one of the birds is not a breeder. I think he flew well for you. A sister of the hen bred our clubs second high points bird, a brother a winner for you. Might be the mix.


----------



## ace in the hole

hillfamilyloft said:


> I would look at each bird individually and see what they have bred you. Was the Schellins the bird I bred from last season? I will see what the young out of that pair using him did. May be just one of the birds is not a breeder. I think he flew well for you. A sister of the hen bred our clubs second high points bird, a brother a winner for you. *Might be the mix.*


It is just that the breeding "The mix".

Yes, the Super Schellins would have been an Ace Pigeon as a young bird if I had not left a traning in my clock on one race and missed clock out time on another that year.

He is the cock you had last year bred to my KONA 254 and they bred a couple top 10% birds with 300 birds or more per race. I will be putting him with a SFL/HVR hen next year. This hen is an aunt to conditionfreaks LCC 457.

The hen "Blue Wonder" will be back with Buzz's Perfection next year. Together they bred FM 08 5462 who as a young bird was three times top 10% and out of seven races flown that year placed six times from 2nd to 29th in the club.

Ace


----------



## conditionfreak

Well. 457 didn't do as good as I initially thought. Not bad at all though. I am in fourth place for average speed, out of 20 lofts. He got second club, but 18th combine. It was a little bit of a tough race due to the wind in their faces. But not too tough.

Missed pick bird money by just a tiny bit. Darn it.

We have our Classic Race (the money race) coming on Oct. 8th. Bands for it were ten dollars each and if you lose a special banded bird, you can replace it with any bird for an additional 15 bucks. I am going to hold 457 back and not race him anymore until then. I will enter him in that race as a replacement for a special banded bird I lost. I will just train him until then and hope for the best.

WinSpeed-1 G C R P A 09/14/10-19:00
Weekly Race Report Page 1
Open and Sportsman Category
Name: 1ST 200L Young Bird Race Flown: 09/12/2010
Release(A): 07:55 Birds: 257 Lofts: 19 Station: LAKE CITY TN YB10
Weather (Rel) SUNNY, NW 1, 66 degrees (Arr) SUNNY, NW13 G22, 76 degrees


18 THOMAS, WAL/7 457 AU 10 LCC BB C 13:41:19 205.555 18.36 1044.643 83

Funny thing about this race is that there was a separate contest for pure white birds, at 50 bucks per bird. I had a white bird that I sent to the race, but since it has never did anything good, I did not enter it in the white bird competition.

Yep. You guessed it. It was the first white bird home in the combine. Darn it.  Could have won maybe 4 or 500 dollars. Maybe more. I don't know. Oh well.


----------



## ace in the hole

conditionfreak said:


> Well. 457 didn't do as good as I initially thought. Not bad at all though. I am in fourth place for average speed, out of 20 lofts. He got second club, but 18th combine. It was a little bit of a tough race due to the wind in their faces. But not too tough.
> 
> Missed pick bird money by just a tiny bit. Darn it.
> 
> We have our Classic Race (the money race) coming on Oct. 8th. Bands for it were ten dollars each and if you lose a special banded bird, you can replace it with any bird for an additional 15 bucks. *I am going to hold 457 back and not race him anymore until then.* I will enter him in that race as a replacement for a special banded bird I lost. I will just train him until then and hope for the best.


Didn't you post someware that this weeks race is also a 200?

If he is in really good shape I would think about sending him. Four weeks off between races is a long time.

What is your race schedual for the rest of the year?

What is the distance on the money race?

Ace


----------



## conditionfreak

Yes, this weeks race is a 200. Then we have two 300's and then the Classic race of 350.

You have a point and your view is actually my view. But my mentor in the sport, is telling me to hold him until the money race. Because he is (thus far) the best I have in my loft. Record wise. I still believe though, that I have a few others that are good but just have not "bloomed" yet. I lost Skinny the krappy bird, on this 200. Sadly.

It is one of those "calls" that we sometimes have to make, but I think I want to hold him until the Classic race. I might send him to a race prior to that, but only if the weather report is such that it is an ideal day for me and my location.


----------



## ace in the hole

conditionfreak said:


> Yes, this weeks race is a 200. Then we have two 300's and then the Classic race of 350.
> 
> You have a point and your view is actually my view. But my mentor in the sport, is telling me to hold him until the money race. Because he is (thus far) the best I have in my loft. Record wise. I still believe though, that I have a few others that are good but just have not "bloomed" yet. I lost Skinny the krappy bird, on this 200. Sadly.
> 
> It is one of those "calls" that we sometimes have to make, but I think I want to hold him until the Classic race. I might send him to a race prior to that, but only if the weather report is such that it is an ideal day for me and my location.



Well, at least if you hold him back from these races it will give your other birds a chance to be your first bird home.


----------



## conditionfreak

Ha Ha. A guy in my club offered to buy 457 from me. He has been watching it these past few weeks and he likes the look and feel of it. Maybe I will give him your email address and he can negotiate for siblings from you.  (But then again. Maybe not. He is the competition, after all) 

I don't think the bird has proven itself worthy of that much yet. But it is MY best young bird. I can count on it coming home in decent time. Can't say that for most of my birds. I do have four others that do usually come home in the top twenty percent, but 457 I can count on being in the top ten percent. Hopefully it will keep improving and peak on the last race. 

hmmm

Maybe I should keep racing it, to rack up points and try to win combine bird of the year? I will have to go back over the old race results and see if anyone else has a bird with more points. hmmm

So many decisions and choices. Race or groom? Chase points or money? Play safe or see exactly what it is made of? Assume or find out for sure?

I hate this game. (but I love it also).


----------



## Matt Bell

I say race and find out for sure what the bird is made of, unless somewhere along the way you run into a tough race, say more than 9 hours on the wing, if not send him every week.


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## hillfamilyloft

I think I would race him the 200 and one of the 300 before the 350. I love to get high points bird. That is my goal. A bird that can get points in every race. You sit him out too much and he may get fat. You may give him a two week rest before the last race. Just my thoughts.


----------



## conditionfreak

Oh heck. pattersonk2002 and you guys talked me into it. He was born to race.

He has went 50 miles every day this week. It has been beautiful weather. But rain is coming tomorrow.

He goes to the 200 Saturday, if the weather is okay. 

What could go wrong? (uh oh!)


----------



## hillfamilyloft

conditionfreak said:


> Oh heck. patterson2002 and you guys talked me into it. He was born to race.
> 
> He has went 50 miles every day this week. It has been beautiful weather. But rain is coming tomorrow.
> 
> He goes to the 200 Saturday, if the weather is okay.
> 
> What could go wrong? (uh oh!)


Thats why I have others race my birds. Then I do not have to make those decisions.


----------



## pattersonk2002

*Saterday*



conditionfreak said:


> Oh heck. patterson2002 and you guys talked me into it. He was born to race.
> 
> He has went 50 miles every day this week. It has been beautiful weather. But rain is coming tomorrow.
> 
> He goes to the 200 Saturday, if the weather is okay.
> 
> What could go wrong? (uh oh!)


The sun will shine


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

Gee, did I read that last report right, #245 pulled out into 1st Place ? Seems a number of SFL birds were 1st recently, including 1st, 2nd, 3rd, Club, with 3 bird clocking limit, and this little old traing toss. 

http://www.wincompanion.com/one_unikon/clockings/raceReportB.php?rid=MQ==&skin=winner

Feels good to win one once in awhile..... Wish I could share some war stories about being out of this famous bird and 1/4 that famous bird, etc. But, they are just plain ole vanilla Smith's....no more...no less....


----------



## hillfamilyloft

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Gee, did I read that last report right, #245 pulled out into 1st Place ? Seems a number of SFL birds were 1st recently, including 1st, 2nd, 3rd, Club, with 3 bird clocking limit, and this little old traing toss.
> 
> http://www.wincompanion.com/one_unikon/clockings/raceReportB.php?rid=MQ==&skin=winner
> 
> Feels good to win one once in awhile..... Wish I could share some war stories about being out of this famous bird and 1/4 that famous bird, etc. But, they are just plain ole vanilla Smith's....no more...no less....


Just keep in mind, those are you wife's birds. She gets the credit for choosing which ones to send. You were just the loft manager on those three.


----------



## Matt Bell

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Gee, did I read that last report right, #245 pulled out into 1st Place ? Seems a number of SFL birds were 1st recently, including 1st, 2nd, 3rd, Club, with 3 bird clocking limit, and this little old traing toss.
> 
> http://www.wincompanion.com/one_unikon/clockings/raceReportB.php?rid=MQ==&skin=winner
> 
> Feels good to win one once in awhile..... Wish I could share some war stories about being out of this famous bird and 1/4 that famous bird, etc. But, they are just plain ole vanilla Smith's....no more...no less....


Do you really raise 250+ youngbirds per year?


----------



## conditionfreak

I forget how we are "judging" this PT competition. Is it each bird earning points in the club race? Or each bird earning points against only the PT entered birds?

Is there a point update, for our birds?

Does it really matter at this point, since Mrs. Smith's entries are obviously going to win and everyone else is competing for fourth place?


----------



## Flapdoodle

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Gee, did I read that last report right, #245 pulled out into 1st Place ? Seems a number of SFL birds were 1st recently, including 1st, 2nd, 3rd, Club, with 3 bird clocking limit, and this little old traing toss.
> 
> http://www.wincompanion.com/one_unikon/clockings/raceReportB.php?rid=MQ==&skin=winner
> 
> Feels good to win one once in awhile..... Wish I could share some war stories about being out of this famous bird and 1/4 that famous bird, etc. But, they are just plain ole vanilla Smith's....no more...no less....


Congrats on the club results, what are you feeding? Are you still trying the pellets? Just wondering.


----------



## Flapdoodle

conditionfreak said:


> I forget how we are "judging" this PT competition. Is it each bird earning points in the club race? Or each bird earning points against only the PT entered birds?
> 
> Is there a point update, for our birds?
> 
> Does it really matter at this point, since Mrs. Smith's entries are obviously going to win and everyone else is competing for fourth place?


It was going to be a points deal 5 points for 1st, 4 for 2nd, etc I will work on getting that together.


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

Matt Bell said:


> Do you really raise 250+ youngbirds per year?


 We havn't done that since 2007, and that was because we had a whole bunch of new club members and we wanted to ship a bunch around the country. Now, with three buildings and 15 sections between all of them, we raise less then a hundred.


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

Flapdoodle said:


> Congrats on the club results, what are you feeding? Are you still trying the pellets? Just wondering.


 Yep, just feeding the Purina Green and Gold pellets. I have now gotten over the idea that one had to give all kinds of extra crap. Birds look great, and I must be saving hundreds of $$$'s a year.


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## SmithFamilyLoft

hillfamilyloft said:


> Just keep in mind, those are you wife's birds. She gets the credit for choosing which ones to send. You were just the loft manager on those three.


Yep you are right !  With just a few good birds in the breeding loft, even a wife can pick some winners !! They are not all winners of course, but like the ole saying goes, good fruit does not fall from from the tree. 

Best pigeon advice someone ever gave me, was to "Get yourself some good stock, the best you can get your hands on", and well, as it turns out it has enabled even a poor handler and manager like me can win some !


----------



## Matt Bell

Why the heck are your band numbers so weird then? Very low numbers in the Winners Cup and then in the PT race 241, 245, 247...


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## MaryOfExeter

Sometimes you need more bands and don't get the same sequence. For example, most of my birds' bands are under 100, then I have some in the 800's cause I needed a few more and that's what was left.


----------



## re lee

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Yep you are right !  With just a few good birds in the breeding loft, even a wife can pick some winners !! They are not all winners of course, but like the ole saying goes, good fruit does not fall from from the tree.
> 
> Best pigeon advice someone ever gave me, was to "Get yourself some good stock, the best you can get your hands on", and well, as it turns out it has enabled even a poor handler and manager like me can win some !


That been the rule to winnning for many a year. And just 3 pair of the best you can get Will found a loft. Even if you just get 1 pair a year. Sometimes the best will be free from good people helping NEW people.


----------



## Flapdoodle

Hi everyone, it seems like most of the birds are molted out. There are a few that are still going through a bad head molt that I want to sit out... Blue banded birds (trc or airbaby) cov 100, and I think a couple of mine. Unless I hear a send them anyway I will have them sit this week. I think they will be better for the remaining 4 races if they ride the pine this week. If anyone wants me to send their bird regardless of moult post here or send a pm. I know in a typical race all birds go but I am treating the birds as my yb team and if they were mine would have some sit out. 

Warren we have been on pellets ( green and gold ) since last week in July with no other feed given. A combine win and 2 average speed in the combine so far I don't think the feed has been a problem. There are a few things I like and some I don't after the season maybe we can compare notes.


----------



## RodSD

Congrats Warren for those winnings! Maybe Purina company can sponsor you and give you free pellets feed if you keep on winning with their pellet products. You can be their testimonials.

Now I am trying to figure out which one is the better handler: you or your wife!


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## hillfamilyloft

Do you feed grit with the pellets? I have heard that they do not need grit with the pellets.


----------



## Pigeon0446

MaryOfExeter said:


> Sometimes you need more bands and don't get the same sequence. For example, most of my birds' bands are under 100, then I have some in the 800's cause I needed a few more and that's what was left.


But he has his own private bands. He isn't using club bands like us.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Pigeon0446 said:


> But he has his own private bands. He isn't using club bands like us.


Oh yeah, I forgot about that...


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

Matt Bell said:


> Why the heck are your band numbers so weird then? Very low numbers in the Winners Cup and then in the PT race 241, 245, 247...



Somewhere along the line, I ordered 500 vanity bands, in order to help support the AU, and just continued to do so....I assign different sets of numbers to various buildings, sections, so I can track and ID off the top of my head. The #3 and #4 bands tells me right off the bat for 2010, that they are out of a very special breeding section.....I don't keep all of my pigeons on the same property, security risk, fire, etc. The higher the numbers this year, means some of the pairs may not have been bred before, or were first time crosses. I dont maintain that number scheme every year, as it changes from year to year. Also banding on right and/or left also provides me information. I just like to provide myself clues without having to look it up in a breeding book.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Good idea!


----------



## Pigeon0446

So if anybody winds up coming across an AU SFL 2010 banded bird with a really low number at a pet shop or an auction the odds are you've got a chance to pick up a pretty good bird. 

But thats a pretty neat thing you can tell what coop or section they are out of by looking at the number or the leg the band is on. I really don't look at their numbers until they go into a race. Pretty much the only time I worry about the numbers is when I band them to keep track of who they are out of for sure and to ship them. Other then that I just know each bird by it's looks and I know who they are. I can have 150 young birds in my coop and pretty much tell you who every bird is out of without looking at the bands.


----------



## conditionfreak

Flapdoodle said:


> Hi everyone, it seems like most of the birds are molted out. *There are a few that are still going through a bad head molt that I want to sit out... Blue banded birds (trc or airbaby) cov 100, and I think a couple of mine. Unless I hear a send them anyway I will have them sit this week.* I think they will be better for the remaining 4 races if they ride the pine this week. If anyone wants me to send their bird regardless of moult post here or send a pm. I know in a typical race all birds go but I am treating the birds as my yb team and if they were mine would have some sit out.
> 
> Warren we have been on pellets ( green and gold ) since last week in July with no other feed given. A combine win and 2 average speed in the combine so far I don't think the feed has been a problem. There are a few things I like and some I don't after the season maybe we can compare notes.


It doesn't help Marine Won with the points competition to sit out, but his well being is more important to me than the points. So, if your judgement is to hold him back a week, then I am all for it. Thanks for asking us and giving us the opportunity to decide.

Good luck to the other PT birds, and you Flapdoodle, in the race. Tomorrow is a biggie for me as I have too birds in the "auction race" at my combine. I could win about 1500 bucks, if I get lucky. Many have lost their auction entry birds, but the competition is still there for sure. At least with two birds in it, I have a chance. My LCC 457 went to the race, even though the winds are not favorable for him (and I) tomorrow. They will be blowing the birds to the other side of town where most of our flyers live. Not bad, but diffinitely not in my favor. I made him my pick bird again. He missed winning pick bird money (80 bucks) last race, by one minute. He did win me the "buddy pool" money the last two races. $16 and $16. Not big money for sure. But hey. It beats a sharp stick in the eye.


----------



## conditionfreak

Well, as luck would have it. Our race today is being delayed due to a flat tire on the release vehicle. Waiting for it to be roadside serviced. Gonna be a very late release and arrival. Maybe 6: pm or so. Still don't know what time the release will be, as the driver still has to go another 100 miles after the vehicle is fixed. Why he was not closer than that for a scheduled 7:55 release is beyond me. Apparently the flat happened at 7 am or so. Not sure. But it sounds like it was being cut real close. Maybe they will release them just from where they are, at 100 miles. Sucks!

As I previously posted, this is our "auction race" and money is involved.

I am a little perplexed and perturbed.

Good thing I like to sleep late, and usually train my birds in the afternoon.


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## MaryOfExeter

Our first race is underway. Released at 7:30 and 8. What sucks is we have a lovely headwind of 8mph  Still looking to kick everyone's butts though...I hope  I have the opportunity to win $70, which will be pretty great.


----------



## Jaysen

MaryOfExeter said:


> Our first race is underway. Released at 7:30 and 8. What sucks is we have a lovely headwind of 8mph  Still looking to kick everyone's butts though...I hope  I have the opportunity to win $70, which will be pretty great.


Good luck. Seems like you are due some.


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## MaryOfExeter

So far only one bird back, from the B race. So I got second place I believe. Sigh.


----------



## Xueoo

No report yet. Must not be good. I personally had a good feeling going into this race.


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## hillfamilyloft

He might just be a soccer


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## hillfamilyloft

be at soccer


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## Flapdoodle

Xueoo said:


> No report yet. Must not be good. I personally had a good feeling going into this race.


Why did you have a good feeling...? 

Your bird was the first back in the A race to the loft. The problem is that was 30 birds back in the club. Congrats on being our first bird. 

Tuff race, The first 14 birds in the club came in over a 40 minute period. 

Trapping order Xueoo, AIRBABY 31, SFL 241, TRC 47, LCC 464, AUB 325. 

I will get more info up a little later tonight.


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## MaryOfExeter

Wooh for 47! I didn't think either of my birds would be in this race. But it's a nice surprise. My first bird........and only bird....back from yesterday's race, is 45's brother. Our first race of the season was SO bad that the secretary made it a 2 day race so that all the awards were sure to be filled. A 2-day 100 mile race. Of course he didn't send out the email until way after we'd knocked off clocks. Wouldn't matter anyway, since nothing has changed for me. I got 4th place in the B race. Wooh for top 10 percent? Only there were only 5 birds clocked...sooooo....not too impressive, LOL


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## conditionfreak

I did terrbile in my race yesterday. I sensed I would after the release was changed to 10:45 due to a flat tire. It was a 200 mile race. The birds had to fly over some mountains at high noon, and the winds were not favorable for my location.

From what I hear, results were bad all over. We only had 9 of the "auction race" entries arrive home before dark. I believe there were about 30-35 of those actually shipped.

I am last in my club. But my neighbor (three miles away) was first, so I can not blame anything but myself and my birds.

I knew it was going to be a bad day when, of the eight birds I sent. My first three home were my worst birds. My rags that have continued to come home, but never in good time. That is always a clue.

457 was my fifth and last bird home.

Two more are in the loft this morning, so I am out one of my better birds. Special banded 0330.

Oh well. It is like football. There is always the next game.

I did have an auction bird home (5:33 pm)), and might have won some money. It is going to be close. It payed 8 spots and only 9 auction birds (that I know of) came home before knock offs. With my luck, I will be number 9. 

Bad day of racing for me and mine. A lot of the guys are saying that their birds came home with muddy feet. Meaning they stopped for water a time or two. Many birds still out.


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## Flapdoodle

I did not ship: 

TRC 665
TRC 45
I 18800
COV 100
AIRBABY 33

In the A race (pt birds) I sent 10 and only have 6 back.
In the B race (my birds) I sent 11 and have 11 back. The birds were late for the second week in a row. Something is off, the birds are not flying very well around the loft. I went on two tosses last week all the birds came in together, they just have not been hammering like normal when flying. I need to get this figured out in the next couple of days or hold back next week. 

I will post results when I get them and hope the other four show up...

I will also update when I figure out whats going on with the birds.

Becky and Walt sorry about the tuff races, hope you get more birds back home.


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## Pigeon0446

MaryOfExeter said:


> Wooh for 47! I didn't think either of my birds would be in this race. But it's a nice surprise. My first bird........and only bird....back from yesterday's race, is 45's brother. Our first race of the season was SO bad that the secretary made it a 2 day race so that all the awards were sure to be filled. A 2-day 100 mile race. Of course he didn't send out the email until way after we'd knocked off clocks. Wouldn't matter anyway, since nothing has changed for me. I got 4th place in the B race. Wooh for top 10 percent? Only there were only 5 birds clocked...sooooo....not too impressive, LOL


Wow that must have been one tuff 100 mile race. Was it just because of head winds or did they hit bad weather along the way? How many birds did you ship to the races. How many birds were in the race total? How many birds are you out or did they all eventually make it home. Atleast you got in the top 10%. I had high hopes for my team this week but they didn't do as good as I hoped. I only had 2 birds in the top 10% 5th and 21st out of 261 birds. I know they both would have been better if they landed when they got home instead of flying around the loft for 3 mins after flying 164 miles. Gotta love it when they come home from a toss on shipping day and a cooper hawk is on the landing board.


----------



## conditionfreak

Did the missing birds make it home?


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## SmithFamilyLoft

The race reports are simply telling us, which birds have come into form. This for example is the 2nd toss in a row that a SFL banded bird has won 1st place this week....this bird is in form, may stay that way for a few weeks and then it wont be....one can only hope that when the BIG one comes, that the bird is in form on that particular day. 

http://www.wincompanion.com/one_unikon/clockings/raceReportB.php?rid=MQ==&skin=winner


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## MaryOfExeter

Pigeon0446 said:


> Wow that must have been one tuff 100 mile race. Was it just because of head winds or did they hit bad weather along the way? How many birds did you ship to the races. How many birds were in the race total? How many birds are you out or did they all eventually make it home. Atleast you got in the top 10%. I had high hopes for my team this week but they didn't do as good as I hoped. I only had 2 birds in the top 10% 5th and 21st out of 261 birds. I know they both would have been better if they landed when they got home instead of flying around the loft for 3 mins after flying 164 miles. Gotta love it when they come home from a toss on shipping day and a cooper hawk is on the landing board.


No, they had perfect weather and the wind did eventually die off. I shipped 10 in the A and 11 in the B. 
In the combine there were 372 birds entered in the A race with 35 lofts. Only 120 birds clocked in those 2 days, and 5 lofts were no-reports.
331 birds from 32 lofts were in the B race. 126 birds returned and 2 lofts didn't report.

I got 50th place in the combine. I am not happy.

If it means anything, we've done some research and as you guys should know, sun flares effect animals who use the magnetic fields for guidance. Takes them 3 days to get over it. The sun's activity was highest Saturday.


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## k2rmx.rob

Got the race result to Tom's club A&B race only not the pt race. 

It looks like the B race was faster then the A race.


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## RodSD

If sun's flare affects earth's magnetic field, and if pigeons use magnetic field for navigation, it should be obvious that birds will get messed up so I like to buy on that idea.


----------



## pattersonk2002

*magnetic field*



RodSD said:


> If sun's flare affects earth's magnetic field, and if pigeons uses magnetic field for navigation, it should be obvious that birds will get messed up so I like to buy on that idea.


This may very well be true, I would also think that all birds would be affected equally thus putting them all back on the same field. Thinking about it that way, I would think that it still boils down to the best birds will WIN. >Kevin


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Since pigeons are supposed to use other things as well, then yes, the best do still win. Since those are the ones who are using more senses. But still, it doesn't really give them a fair chance. IMO magnetic fields are probably a major thing they use.


----------



## conditionfreak

What confounds me is that I can take the same ten pigeons to the same 40 mile toss location. Always on nice days. Yet, one or two of the birds will not show up on time, and sometimes never. Yet those same birds have been to that location and come home quickly and apparently easily, time and time again. The late birds vary and are not the same ones over and over again.

It seems that they take turns coming home late. I know it is not the birds, as they have been to that location numerous times and had no problems.

There must be factors involved that we do not have information on. Even accounting for the occasional predator bird chase or catch.

These homing pigeons are still a mystery, for sure.


----------



## spirit wings

If they have been at the same release loctation many times..sometimes they may just be routing around that area..as they are familiar with it...?


----------



## rackerman

spirit wings said:


> If they have been at the same release loctation many times..sometimes they may just be routing around that area..as they are familiar with it...?


Good point.


----------



## conditionfreak

Well, anything is possible I guess. But they are flocking birds and the flock comes home immediately. They also are taken there hungry.

No, I do not think that they are routing at the release point. Either they are stupid in homing and in the past have just followed others home. Or they fell to a predator chase or catch.

But it just seems funny that they have been down the road to the 200 mile station and have come home alone. Yet, they get lost coming home from a well known and used 40 mile tossing location. I just feel that sometimes there are things going on with the earths various areas, that we do not understand. Smells, magnetic fields, sun flares, sounds that humans can not hear, etc. Who knows what the heck we have not thought of or discoverd yet. Maybe the animals could teach us a lot more than even we suspect. Earth Quake prediction. Cancer locations or maybe even prediction. Evil people even. Maybe that is why some animals "take to" certain individuals and not to others.

Wouldn't it be cool to know everything.


----------



## Big T

MaryOfExeter said:


> Since pigeons are supposed to use other things as well, then yes, the best do still win. Since those are the ones who are using more senses. But still, it doesn't really give them a fair chance. IMO magnetic fields are probably a major thing they use.


Truefully, science is just beginning to learn about homing, but at this point it is only theory. The how is still ????? But racing helps motivate the why.


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## k2rmx.rob

I was looking at the terrain that the birds had to travel to get home from the release point in Winnemucca NV on Google maps, that has to be very tough on them due to the climate an altitude change. It's more of a endurance race for them.


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## Guest

personally I dont think pigeons will ever be as predictable as most racing people want them to be so its always gonna come down to the birds that actually can overcome anything that is thrown at them on the courses and that includes the loft managers themselves lol  just my opinion thou


----------



## Xueoo

Flapdoodle said:


> *Why did you have a good feeling...? *
> 
> Your bird was the first back in the A race to the loft. The problem is that was 30 birds back in the club. Congrats on being our first bird.
> 
> Tuff race, The first 14 birds in the club came in over a 40 minute period.
> 
> Trapping order Xueoo, AIRBABY 31, SFL 241, TRC 47, LCC 464, AUB 325.
> 
> I will get more info up a little later tonight.


I was reading up on the weather report all week and the conditions on race day was going to be like what we have here on the coast. Don't know how the weather actually turned out on race day, but, that along with a faster race the week before, made sense for a rested bird with a drive to push ahead. That's what I thought anyways. The mother to this PT race bird has flown through wind, rain and fog and always made it home. I figured some of that drive passed down.


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## RodSD

Birds can split up going back home although they started as a flock at the release site. I toss 7 birds one time and they came back 2 by 2. Go figure.

Maybe in the future when each bird has gps sensor on their leg, then maybe we can know what is going on. Looking at gps data from birds released with them showed that they can split up, go at different altitudes, fly at different speeds, circle around some antennae like they are lost, go around bodies of water, follow road, etc. Also for some unknown reason is that they seem to be following some highway in the sky. Data also shows that when birds are left to watch the release site for couple of minutes when they have been released there before just go head directly home unlike birds that are released right away. Pigeon navigation is interesting. They are way ahead of us.


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## Flapdoodle

*Full Disclosure*

Our eight race series is now going to be 7 weeks. The birds are still off. They all have healthy appetites and appear or look healthy, none of them sitting with ruffle feathers off in a corner or anything like that, but they are not right Over the past two weeks race results alone compared to other lofts and also compared to the first two races show something is up. 

Loft flying was only 30 minutes today with similar results all week. It started out great I opened the trap and they all left the loft without any coaxing and were hammering pretty good. The left the immediate air space of the loft for only about ten minutes and were back to their circling barley flying just kind staying in the air. 

The droppings this morning and the past week and half are off. Of the three parts to droppings (feces, urates or white part, and urine or liquid) the feces are little off slightly green, urates are normal, then excess amounts of urine. I would say that at least a fourth of the birds have a visible (as far as droppings go) issue. 

Questions is what is the issue. What I have been trying to do is locate a microscope so I can do a fecal smear and see if I can see eggs for worms, cocci, etc.

I treated all the birds for respiratory three weeks ago, canker two weeks ago nothing this last week. I may have over done it with the canker bit, I had two birds with a delayed crop emptying some type of obvious issue. One morning I found that a bird and vomited its feed. Remember I have been feeding pellets since last week in July. I noticed the day before shipping the last race some runny droppings. It had rained that night so I figure it was just do to the fact that I was feeding pellets and the humidity increase made the droppings wet. 

I was thinking maybe one of the bags of feed was next to our water heater the increase in humidity spoiled the feed. I don’t think this is the case as I feed the pellets from the same bag to a group of cocks in another loft with no problems. 

I don’t know where I am going with this other then the fact that I won’t be shipping this week. I have not done anything other then since last Sunday dump the pellets are have been feeding a basic grain mixture, nothing out of the ordinary in the water other then crushed garlic one day and two days of probiotic. The birds have some type of digestive issue. I was hoping that a week with nothing would settle things down. It is not happening. I plan to treat the birds for cocci with sulmet for five days to see if that clears up the issue. 

Wrong or right, that is the plan… sorry for the novel

Last week four did not make it back:
SFL 245
SFL 247
SPO 612
LCC 465


----------



## Flapdoodle

k2rmx.rob said:


> I was looking at the terrain that the birds had to travel to get home from the release point in Winnemucca NV on Google maps, that has to be very tough on them due to the climate an altitude change. It's more of a endurance race for them.





RodSD said:


> If sun's flare affects earth's magnetic field, and if pigeons use magnetic field for navigation, it should be obvious that birds will get messed up so I like to buy on that idea.


Between the crazy hard course, sun flare ups, my sub par loft setup and management + my pigeon training our birds are screwed

Someone else might be better suited to give this a crack next year. 

On that note, we did get the OK to call this race series or I guess this year I should say gauntlet the 1st Annual Pigeon-Talk Classic. I hope that we can get something set up for next year. As a group, it would make sense to look at other options. 

We have three races left, started with 31 birds and we are down to 10

I will fly next year with 100% other breeders birds. It might be more enjoyable as a group for this race if it happens to get someone with a different course and more skills, but I am still more then open to the idea.


----------



## Flapdoodle

k2rmx.rob said:


> Got the race result to Tom's club A&B race only not the pt race.
> 
> It looks like the B race was faster then the A race.


Thanks for posting these.

I updated the links in my signature. You should be able to see all the results both club and combine for the birds that were in by knock off. 

I also added the points deal 5 for 1st, 4 for 2nd... not sure that is the best way to do this but that is what I posted we would do way back when...


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

All in all I think this has been the most enjoyable thread/event that I have been reading up on. You're doing a great job Tom and I'm sure everyone who entered this race feels the same way. I'm for sure in for the next one, wherever it is! 31 down to 10 may look bad but I think this event has been a great success! 

Keep up the good work!


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## MaryOfExeter

I'm guessing your/our birds have coccidiosis. I still think you're doing just fine though


----------



## hillfamilyloft

I would think the birds just caught something from the basket. If they get green and runny, I would think Paratyphoid/somonilla sp. If they are clear and runny, might look at PMV. If you have shot them for both, could just be the change in feed. My thoughts were that and you can check with Warren on how his birds are doing on pellets, my thought is that getting out to further distances might need a feed supplement, ie more fats etc. Would like to see how Warren's birds progress in his club as the distances get further. 

They fact that my bird was looking off and then lost the next race makes me think that something might be off health wise. Seems like a bird with a week rest should get stronger. Not to say my birds do not get lost, just that it was having health issues, coming in late and looking off. 

Droppings tell the story. I do know that when I changed feed using pellets and then not, my droppings were off for a couple of days. I would change the water a few times a day and clean the waterers with bleach.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

MaryOfExeter said:


> I'm guessing your/our birds have coccidiosis. I still think you're doing just fine though


A 4 in 1 might be the ticket. You might just be right Becky. Treat them, sit them out a week and assess them for further races.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

If you decide it is cocci, then I recommend Corid. It doesn't have side effects like Sulmet does.

http://www.pigeoncote.com/vet/formulary/formulary.html#coccidios


----------



## mtripOH

Flapdoodle said:


> On that note, we did get the OK to call this race series or I guess this year I should say gauntlet the 1st Annual Pigeon-Talk Classic. I hope that we can get something set up for next year. As a group, it would make sense to look at other options.


Hi! I have been following this thread from the beginning and I have really enjoyed it. Even tho I have no pigeons in this One Loft Race I have looked forward to reading every post here. We are just beginners in the world of pigeons and have never raced but I would love to be part of the annual race next year. Please count the Triplett family in!


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## Pigeon0446

My birds weren't ready for the first race this season. Because of some family heath problems. But the birds were perfectly healthy I just didn't get them to where they needed to be to compete. Then after that first race my birds looked good but then the day of shipping for the second race I noticed some thing was up with the poop it wasn't the nice lil pea sized dots. It was a lil looser and just a lil off in color. But I shipped them anyway it was blow home 100 mile race I wound up 10 mins 35 secs of the pace. But when they got home and later that night they started pooping bright green I knew it was cocci. So I treated them with Baycox right the next day. And they came around almost right away and I've done good the last 2 weeks 3rd one week and 5th last week vs. 300 pigeons in my club. If your thinking it's cocci I'd def try that baycox it worked wonder for me. But I think they got somthing else this week. They've slowed way down on the training tosses. I know they've had head winds the last few days but they normally take between 27 and 32 mins from my 25 mile spot and today they took 42 mins the first time 45 mins the second time then 36 mins from 20 miles just b4 it got dark.


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## conditionfreak

--It happens. 

As to the losses, I think that they are right in line with the losees of almost everyone in my combine. 10 out of 31 is about what everyone else is experiencing around here. I had a lot of losses before the season started, but I have held my own since then. I started the first race with 13 and now have 9. But I started the year with 35 and now have 9. So, you are doing better than I, with the PT birds. I don't know how many of your B race birds you have lost though. But probably similar I would think.

I know I am a lone voice out here in this regard. But I think that most over medicate and treat pigeons, and themselves. That which does not kill you makes you stronger. I believe in treating for illness but not so much for preventative measures.


Having said that, I feel obliged to state that what you are doing or contemplating seems appropriate.

Hate to see those lost birds. Even if some are SFL entries. 

Just kidding Warren. You know me. I hate to see anything bad happen to any pigeon, or living thing. Just trying to lighten the bummer news a little.  I hope they all show up tomorrow morning.

One thing I always do before a race, is to feed the birds long grain brown rice just before basketing them up for the shipping. I give them a fair amount, but not as much as they want, and I let them have 10 minutes or so to drink, before I basket them up. I don't know for sure that it helps, but it seems to. I was told to do this by a really good pigeon guy who wins a lot. Seems to be doing something good for them The rice has high energy and also holds moisture well for them, for the long races.

Now that we have an official competition name, I will order a trophy. Anyone know of a reputable place to order a pigeon racing trophy from? I will start looking through the internet and see what I can find.

Good job Flapdoodle. Just bad luck. Happens often. Comes with the hobby.

Maybe I should get everyone whos bird survives the season, a t-shirt that states something like "I survived the Amazing PT gauntlet".


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## Pigeon0446

conditionfreak said:


> I know I am a lone voice out here in this regard. But I think that most over medicate and treat pigeons, and themselves. That which does not kill you makes you stronger. I believe in treating for illness but not so much for preventative measures.


I'm with you 100% ppl put way too much "stuff" in their birds water. So be it medications or suppliments. I've been what I would call a decent flyer for the past 10 years winning 1 or 2 races a year. But I wasn't consistent enuff for my liking. So this past old bird season I was kind of tired of putting somthing in the water each day and I wasn't really confident in my old bird team since none of the the birds on the team ever did anything in the past few seasons young bird or old bird races. I put the few winners in the stock loft because I wasnted to change up my pairs a lil. But sicne I really wasn't into this season old birds I didn't do all the things I normally did I just gave them clean water and food each day trained them hard. Even without confidence I aint racing a bird I don't feel is trained right so I trained like I normally do. Well I won 2 old bird races and was up there alot more then normal. Then this yb season seams to be going pretty good so far after 4 races without all the extras in the water. I think the saying keep it simple stupid finally stuck in my head. I know like I posted earlier saying I gave my yb's baycox 2 weeks ago you have to medicate if they are sick but aside from that all they need is good feed and clean water and a good training regimen.


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## RodSD

The birds sound sick. Definitely sounds like bacterial infection. Things do happen! It is not your handler error. Even the best handler can have pigeons that get sick. Just treat the birds with anti-bacterial stuff. Give them vinegar water, too. From experience, if I feed pellets alone, they need more than the calculated ounces. For some unknown reason an ounce of grain mix is not equivalent to an ounce of pellet. If you give the birds 1.5 ounces of feed they will fly longer than if feed 1.5 ounces of pellets alone.


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## pattersonk2002

*Cocci*

I thought this might be good reading for some of the people that are following this race and don't really understand what is being discussed. I seen somebody had mentioned corid and this does the same. I did find it odd that it mentions feed changes along with stress, there's no stress in this race  I was also wondering if there is a chance that something is trying to get at the birds in the loft at night that could be adding stress to the problem? 
Anyway I liked this link.
http://www.wingswest.net/pigeons/Health/Coccidiosis/coccidiosis.html

As for next year, I know for-sure I would not hesitate to send birds to a flapdoodle2 or whatever the name may be and have Mr. Tom Brasher as a loft manager once again. >Kevin


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## Alamo

I might be wrong,but I thought Baycox was no longer available....What I use for Cocci,E-coli etc is Albon or ESB3 or Neotet Plus.... I hate to buy 2 or 3 different meds for the same illinesses,but you don`t want the germs to get used to ONE medication,because then it will not cure the problem....As usual,after 1 or two YB races,the birds get the YBS (young bird sickness)...It is almost impossible to keep them from getting it..They say the stress from shipping,and sleeping in a truck overnight etc make them come down with it...It lasts 7 days,and usally after one weekend of no racing,they are back to normal....I have a 20 bird team,so I ship all my birds to the 1st race if possible...If you can split up your yb`s to 2 teams,you could send one team to the 1st race,and the 2nd team to the 2nd race..This way,when the 1st team comes down with the YBS,it will be recovered for the 3rd race...By the 4th race,ALL your YB`s will be over it,and can ship any bird you want....I agree with Pigeon0446,too much stuff in the water everyday is not all that good...One or two days a week,will be OK with something in the water...Vitamins,electrolytes etc Gatorade is good..I use it one day a week....Birds like the taste...Add it to meds,to make the birds drink better....Alamo


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## dogging_99

Some good info on coccidiosis

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=286278&postcount=22

Good Luck finding 2.5% for Chickens though.

I found this has a 5 year shelf life:
http://www.buybaycox.com/index.php?...roducts_id=2&zenid=7nd5mbltjqdajaqh8b0sk33ha6

I mix it at 3ML per 2L drinking water and it seamed to work but it doesn't mix well in water. It's for piglets given orally. At the end of the day I find little white particles in the bottom of the waterer so I don't think they get the proper dose. Maybe I should give an eye-drop once a day for two days.

This is the dose of 2.5% solution.
The dose of “Baycox’ is 6mg/kg. As the solution is 25mg/ml this works out at 3mls/1L of drinking water. This solution is made fresh each day and provided as the sole drinking water for two days.

This is the 5% suspension for piglets.
for Cats, the dose of Baycox is 20 mg/kg (10 mg per pound). This is 0.2 ml per pound of cat when using the 5% suspension. 

25 drops = 1ml 

So if a pigeon weighs 16 ounces then:
1.36mg/1lb = approximately 1 eye-drop of Baycox 5% suspension.

I have one bird that seams to have an outbreak of coccidiosis every 3-4 months the droppings are very wet and have strong odor, checked with a microscope and found 5 eggs per 100x field of view.
What I do is mix 2" of eye-dropper full of distilled water with 2 drops 5% solution in a small container and suck 1" of the mixture up and administer orally to the affected bird one day and the other 1" the second day.
The droppings did firm up.


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## rackerman

*This thread just gets better and better! I love following it! 
TOM, your doing a GREAT Job. I hope to be in the race next year!!*


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## Guest

Im glad you are on top of all this and I too enjoy this thread very much , the problem with pigeons is most illnesses carry the same traits so its hard to decifer what is really going on with the birds at any given time so hope you figgure it out in time to finish out the season


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## Pigeon0446

As I stated in an earlier post I haven't been putting anything in the water so be it ACV Garlic Vitimins Medication(unless they are actually sick). But tonight when I shipped the race. A few different ppl asked me what medication program am I following this year. Because they say my birds have never looked as good as they do now. I think my birds look good but I wouldn't say better then ever in 1999 when I topped the combine of over 2000 birds with 2 birds on the drop by over 2 mins those birds looked better. But I told them I'm not on any program. And nobody belives me they say that they know I'm doing somthing and it's alright if I want to keep my secrets. It's so funny if you tell ppl what you do if it's too simple they don't belive you. But if you give them some story how you give them this and that or you do this or that to the birds when you ship them they eat it up. The real secret is to keep them happy and healthy all the medication that ppl give their birds as preventitives isn't doing either.


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## MaryOfExeter

Haha, I never medicate unless there is a problem. You don't see me taking cough medicine or antibiotics every month. So why should my birds? People who seem to have something in the water constantly irritate me. I feel sorry for the birds and their poor immune systems. When something serious really does happen, what meds are they going to use? The ones they've been using have already stopped working because the birds got resistance to it. People need to realize a lot of things live naturally in birds, like trichomonads, coccidia, and e.coli. It's when you stress the crap out of their systems by giving them medicine constantly, that you turn trichomonads into canker, coccidia into coccidiosis, and e. coli into...well, e. coli and salmonella


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## Pigeon0446

I might have to give them some medicine this week. Since the some of birds droppings looked a lil off last night b4 I shipped them and they weren't making thier normal times on the tosses last week. Then the race today I have no clue how my birds are going to wind up since I haven't went to the club or talk to anybody yet. But even if the first one is good I'm not satisfied with the way they came in so far apart. I got the first one in 3 hours and 30 mins from 204 miles. There's a chance he could be good but the next 2 were 12 mins later then I got 2 more 12 mins after that. And only 12 out of 19 were back an hour and a half after my first bird. And all the birds that came home so far look beat like they flew 1000 miles. So there's somthng going on in there it might be the cocci again since I seen that bright green poop in the coop this morning from one of the birds I didn't ship.


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## SmithFamilyLoft

MaryOfExeter said:


> Haha, I never medicate unless there is a problem. You don't see me taking cough medicine or antibiotics every month. So why should my birds? People who seem to have something in the water constantly irritate me. I feel sorry for the birds and their poor immune systems. When something serious really does happen, what meds are they going to use? The ones they've been using have already stopped working because the birds got resistance to it. People need to realize a lot of things live naturally in birds, like trichomonads, coccidia, and e.coli. It's when you stress the crap out of their systems by giving them medicine constantly, that you turn trichomonads into canker, coccidia into coccidiosis, and e. coli into...well, e. coli and salmonella


 I would normally agree with everything you have said 100%. The exception would be those 9 or so weeks where they are being raced and mixed in with hundreds or thousands of birds. All the medical rules which would normally apply are thrown out the window, unless you are willing to accept less then 100% performance. If you havn't been giving the medications nilly willy this whole time, then this is when you can break out the BIG guns. Of course, as you indicated, if you have been pouring the drugs into them all this time, then I think you would be correct, in that by now, you have shot all of your bullets, and it is a losing game.


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## hillfamilyloft

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> I would normally agree with everything you have said 100%. The exception would be those 9 or so weeks where they are being raced and mixed in with hundreds or thousands of birds. All the medical rules which would normally apply are thrown out the window, unless you are willing to accept less then 100% performance. If you havn't been giving the medications nilly willy this whole time, then this is when you can break out the BIG guns. Of course, as you indicated, if you have been pouring the drugs into them all this time, then I think you would be correct, in that by now, you have shot all of your bullets, and it is a losing game.


Funny
In our club and others there is talk of sabotage. Where fliers purposely put sick birds in the trailer to make others sick. Funny how their treated birds don't get sick. My thoughts are that some fliers with less than appropriate bird living conditions, just have sick birds. Its like the first day of school when all the birds are mixed in the trailer. Give them a week or two and they start catching things. Now the decision is what ailments do you try and prevent during the racing season. 
Would love to hear ideas from those that use medications during racing and what they use. 
Randy


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## MaryOfExeter

I do give them a lot of natural stuff during race season, and watch them closely to see how they are breathing and flying around the loft, along with their droppings. If a bird just flew a couple hundred miles in a day, then monday comes and they can barely make it 10 minutes in the air without gasping like crazy, you know something's wrong. It is really sad that some people put unhealthy birds on the trailer, but I know it happens. Even healthy birds can be carrying things that don't bother them, but will bother others. I remember once I saw a club race released down here, and the last bird out was a white bird who had the nastiest bright green diarrhea, definitely not just due to stress, and overall looked pathetic. I felt really bad for any other birds who had to drink from the same water!  Some of the other birds I noticed last out, were healthy, but had no tail. Maybe a couple feathers there. Poor things


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## ace in the hole

hillfamilyloft said:


> Where fliers purposely put sick birds in the trailer to make others sick. Randy


When I joined Th FM club in Michigan I was told how one flyer would do things like Pox birds and put them in the baskets or put sick birds in the basket.

At the release of one race a dead bird was found in a crate. It was one of his birds. I won that race with a bird from Hillfamilyloft but the next week he was off so I did not send him. I lost him to PMV. 

I had vaccinated the whole loft. All but one blue bar that sliped out of the crate. At the time I did not know what bird it was because over 2/3 of the team were blue bars. Now I know.

After that happened I started wrighting the band #s down as I vaccinate so this can't happen again.

Ace


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## Pigeon0446

I had to throw a few birds out of the race this week. I looked in the race crates b4 we sealed them up and I found 3 birds with pox showing so I took them out. The guy says he poxed them but it didn't take I told him you should have checked to see if it took and if it didn't they should have been redone. I really don't care my birds are all safe since I made sure they all took but there's guys that still don't pox their birds and it's not fair to them that their birds are gonna catch it because ppl are putting bird with it in the race. The guy also said he didn't know they had it. But come on how do you pick your birds to ship you gotta look at them how can you not see huge pox all over the bird's face.

Also the race yesterday wasn't so bad even though they were far apart. Everybody's were spread out and I actually had the best returns. Alot of birds weren't home as of last night when we opened the clocks at the club. I was out 2 as of last nght but they came home this morning. Out of 277 bird in the club I wound up 5th 12th 13th 31st 32nd and had 6 more in the top 79.


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## conditionfreak

Our 300 mile race, changed to a 200 due to weather. I got 100% returns (8 birds) but didn't win for sure. Won't know for a couple of days. LCC 457 was my pick bird but he was my third bird home, a half hour later. He is not going to the next race and will go to the "Classic" on Nov. 8th. I think he is tired. I trained too much I believe (three times a week, 45 miles). I'm gonna do twice this week from 45 and once next week from 50. The Classic is 350.

In regards to the putting of sick birds into crates. I believe there are several causes for this. Sometimes it is someone trying to get rid of a bird. Sometimes, it is because the sender just doesn't know or recognize the bird as being sick. Sometimes it is due to specialty money races (first white bird home, auction birds, or raffle birds, etc.). If you have a bird (auction, raffle, etc.) and it has a "chance" to win something, the guy just puts it in there. Even if it is sick. Because if he doesn't, he has absolutely no chance at all. Often you have only one raffle or auction bird in your loft.

But most often, I believe it is just not recognizing a sick bird.

As we know, most flyers are older guys. Older guys have poor eyesight, and are usually lazy to boot. (I can say that, because I are one)


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## Pigeon0446

conditionfreak said:


> I think he is tired. I trained too much I believe (three times a week, 45 miles). I'm gonna do twice this week from 45 and once next week from 50.


 I train my birds 2 times a day from 25 miles Tuesday thru Thursday and then 3 times on Friday and once on Saturday for Saturday shipping. If we ship on Friday they go 3 times on Thursday and once on Friday. Right now through 5 of the 10 races I'm 2nd average speed and the 4 birds I've clocked first this year so far are all 4 of those birds flew all 5 races. From what I've seen it's pretty hard to get a good bird that is healthy tired. I can see giving them a week off from races here and there but I don't change the way they are trained if they are healthy.


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## Flapdoodle

LokotaLoft said:


> Im glad you are on top of all this and I too enjoy this thread very much , the problem with pigeons is most illnesses carry the same traits so its hard to decifer what is really going on with the birds at any given time so hope you figgure it out in time to finish out the season


I wish I could say I was on top of this. We are going to skip the race this weekend as well. I hope to be able to get the last two races in... 258 and 318 miles. 

I ended up treating the birds with sulmet I could not find corid anywhere local. The droppings cleaned up really well and the birds look good. They have been off the meds for three days. Most the droppings still look great I have a few birds that are still off. I know sulmet can be hard on the birds. I followed the treatment up with a probiotic for a couple of days. Something is still up with a few of the birds (just by droppings, they all look fine). 

The birds are not ready for the 300 this weekend. The birds have been loft-flying everyday. I did take them on one toss this week at 45 miles, most the birds came in good time with some stragglers. I am going to take the results from that toss plus a 40 and 70 miles toss Saturday and Sunday. Any bird that is not trap within 30 minutes of the first bird on this week toss or the two this weekend I am going to pull from the loft. I hope that will be an indicator of a bird that is off. My hope is to get the birds that are fit to fly ready for next week. I will then get up the road a few more time before next weeks race. 

Hope everyone is OK with that. Hope everyone racing had a great weekend. I will post the results of the tosses and let you know which birds are moved out of the loft.


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## hillfamilyloft

Treat them like they are yours. You know what is best.


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## Xueoo

Any update on how the birds are doing? Hopefully they all come around.


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## SmithFamilyLoft

hillfamilyloft said:


> Funny
> In our club and others there is talk of sabotage. Where fliers purposely put sick birds in the trailer to make others sick. Funny how their treated birds don't get sick. My thoughts are that some fliers with less than appropriate bird living conditions, just have sick birds. Its like the first day of school when all the birds are mixed in the trailer. Give them a week or two and they start catching things. Now the decision is what ailments do you try and prevent during the racing season.
> Would love to hear ideas from those that use medications during racing and what they use.
> Randy


 I pretty much follow Dr. Walker's advice in regards to a medication program during racing. This last week I just went into the loft and threw some feed at them, didn't even let them out, didn't have time. Won 1st place in our club, so go figure. http://www.auspigeonco.com.au/

If you can't keep them healthy, you can't win races, and sometimes it is more then just dumping meds into the drinker. If it was easy, then everyone could be a winner, am I right ?


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## Flapdoodle

Sorry for the lack of news. So far this week, I have tossed 40 miles twice. They were all home in in forty minutes the first toss. The second toss we had them in about an hour with two birds fifteen minutes late. I was hoping to go for a longer toss Sunday but we had rain. For those in the club that shipped birds this last week it was a tough race. Two of the guys in the club are both shy ten birds. It was a 300-mile race. This week we drop back 50 miles.

As far as our birds they are steadily improving, they flew 30 minutes last night and 45 this morning. I have been letting them out and they want to fly. Droppings look good. After they ate breakfast this morning, I had cocks chasing hens all over the place. They seem like they are ready. 

I need to send them this weekend, it may be a bit of a stretch but I do not fly old birds. If anyone (that still has birds) wants me to hold them back and mail them home let me know (send me a PM). I do not feel that any birds performance would merit that at this point but that is just me and depends on what breeders you have back home. On top of that last comment performance or lack there of has more to do with me then the birds at this points. I have done some stupid things, I think we should call it pulling a flapdoodle. I will post a list when this is over. I think it would help everyone in the forum or at least those that race, to learn from the mistakes.


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## Xueoo

I think the birds have been consistent, as far as the PT birds themselves are concerned. Looking at the PT results, the birds with higher points are still the ones scoring. The birds not scoring points have been in the low positions throughout. There could be many different things done to improve the club results, but I don't think you can improve the loft position much.


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## conditionfreak

Send mine to the races. That is what he was bred and born for.

Ha Ha. I have pulled a few (hundreds probably) of Flapdoodles in my time too.

Warren. I don't believe you when you say you just "threw some feed at them". Not for a minute. But it would help prove the point that they don't really need all of those medications and supplements. Am I right?

I thought you had a loft manager? Did you Donald Trump him (YOU'RE FIRED)? He He


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## pattersonk2002

*Race or not*

It would make it easier to make a decision on this if I knew where my bird is at on times coming in from these tosses. Since I don't have this information at this time, I am going say if You think that sending my bird would be a waste of your time then so B it, your loft, your call. When this is all said and done and I still own a bird I will send monies for return shipping. My thought in this is, somehow my bird has managed to, if nothing else stay alive, so the survival instincts might be something to breed into one of my other hens. >Kevin


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## MaryOfExeter

It's up to you if you want to race my birds or send them back home. How many races are left?


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## SmithFamilyLoft

conditionfreak said:


> Send mine to the races. That is what he was bred and born for.
> 
> Ha Ha. I have pulled a few (hundreds probably) of Flapdoodles in my time too.
> 
> Warren. I don't believe you when you say you just "threw some feed at them". Not for a minute. But it would help prove the point that they don't really need all of those medications and supplements. Am I right?
> 
> I thought you had a loft manager? Did you Donald Trump him (YOU'RE FIRED)? He He


Hey...just cause I have a loft manager/advisor who takes them down the road, and houses some on his property, and acts as a partner, does not mean that I don't partake of the fun past time of feeding my own birds.  Seriouly though, the birds were never left out of the loft the other week, so never got any training tosses, or even loft flying ! Maybe some rest was what they really needed ? One past time I do skip, is the poop scraping, I have someone come in once a week to take care of that chore. 

They havn't gotten any supplements this year, and only about 1/2 of what the avian vet recommends...so less is sometimes better. Go figure....


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## conditionfreak

Here I am off topic again. But I like to keep this thread going and bumped up to the front of the line.

So, here goes:

A new guy in our Combine this year, is killing us all. Seems like a real nice guy, but I'm not much of a chit chatter (couldn't tell that from my postings here, huh). So I do not know his past with pigeons but a good guess would be that he used to race them, quit, and now is back in the sport. This is his first season that I am aware of. He is not only winning everything, but taking 1st through 4th or even more, every race. Sometimes First through 8th or so. From all distances. I don't have much info about him, his methods or his birds. But I have "heard" that he has all Houbens from "out west" (we are in Ohio). He won the 300 with the top four birds, all 45 minutes ahead of the next guy, who "used" to win everything. (I wasn't even close).

Anyone have Houbens and if so, how are they doing?

Oh. Wish me luck this Saturday. It is our money race and I have seven entries. I'm counting on 457 and 105. But maybe 334, 112 or 182 will surprise me. 

Y'all probably won't remember 105, but I wrote about him once here. I accidently sent him to a 40 mile training toss with my old birds way back before old bird races started. He was only weeks old and had not been off the landing board prior to that. He is a big bird and looked like an old bird when I collected them all in the dark for the morning toss.

He came home. Probably followed the crowd. Thank goodness.

He and 457 have been my two steady birds. Not winning, but I can always count on them to make the race sheet.

As for 457. He is going to be a legend around these here parts. If not this year, then next. How could he not. With me as his publicist.


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## hillfamilyloft

I am rooting on 457. Would like to add to Buzz's resume' as a breeder. I am about convinced it is the hens resume that is better. Her bloodline has been better this year.


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## hillfamilyloft

I say send them, but I am living vicariously through ACE and my last remaining blood in the race.


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## Pigeon0446

conditionfreak said:


> Anyone have Houbens and if so, how are they doing?


I only have one Houben cock and I'd say he's pretty good he's the father of my 2 time winner this past old bird season. And both times she was pretty far ahead because she lost time around the loft and still won by 7 mins in one of the races.


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## Xueoo

Any time now...


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## conditionfreak

Besides waiting for the results of the PT competition race, I have a couple of interesting things to tell y'all.

First. I entered two birds in a Futurity race in the Cleveland area, known as the OCR race. Entry was $15 per bird. The race was yesterday. One of my birds got 3rd overall and 2nd Out of Area. I won $675.00. WooHoo....

That was my cut after splitting the actual won monies with the handler, my long time friend Donny. He took the first 3 spots and told me that it was three on the drop and that my bird could have easily clocked first and won top spot. So, it was actually an equal first the way I see it, although I only got 3rd place money. Donny knows pigeons like no one else I know. He actually has it down to a science that I don't even begin to understand. Like me, he just got back into racing in the last couple of years after a 25 year absence. We used to fly together back in the day. Next door neighbors also. He won the oCR last year also. So he is batting 100% for that competition. Truly a man that knows and understands pigeon racing. Even though he has told me a lot of what he does, I would buy his book if he wrote one on pigeon racing.

Second. Today was the Classic race for my combine and I had high hopes. But alas. Nothing yet. It is dark now and out of over two hundred birds, I have been told there are only 26 birds in by dark. There were 25 money spots, so I'm out. Apparently 18 birds arrived between 6 and 8 pm. No one in my club got birds today. ????

I can't explain these results. A beautiful day here, at the release point and all points between. Truly a smash race on a seemingly perfect day.

We had a 300 on a worse day last weekend and the birds all came in between 2:30 and 4pm.

And now this. Go figure.

Hope Flapdoodles platoon had a decent race day.


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## Flapdoodle

On the phone today here is the trapping order:
241
100
33
44
325
331
31
18800
321
15253
47
1408
313
305
1409
301
317
303


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## conditionfreak

Gonna put a hit out for that SFL bird.

Gonna call my brother-in-law Bruno. 

Good job SFL 241. Oh, and you too Marine Won. That long distance feral blood is starting to kick in.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

I'm hoping 44 is supposed to be my 45


----------



## Pigeon0446

conditionfreak said:


> First. I entered two birds in a Futurity race in the Cleveland area, known as the OCR race. Entry was $15 per bird. The race was yesterday. One of my birds got 3rd overall and 2nd Out of Area. I won $675.00. WooHoo....


Congrats on the 3rd we have our big races the next 3 weeks. I've got a few birds for each race that have been doing pretty good in the club races clocking in the top 5% a couple of times each.



conditionfreak said:


> Second. Today was the Classic race for my combine and I had high hopes. But alas. Nothing yet. It is dark now and out of over two hundred birds, I have been told there are only 26 birds in by dark. There were 25 money spots, so I'm out. Apparently 18 birds arrived between 6 and 8 pm. No one in my club got birds today. ????
> 
> I can't explain these results. A beautiful day here, at the release point and all points between. Truly a smash race on a seemingly perfect day.
> 
> We had a 300 on a worse day last weekend and the birds all came in between 2:30 and 4pm.
> 
> And now this. Go figure.


What direction do you guys fly? They had 350 mile WTCM(World Trade Center Memorial) race today released from out in Weston, WV. IDK what time they let them up this morning but one of the guys in my club who flys just about 400 miles got one at 2:35 in the afternoon. They are sayng he's got a shot at winning theres just a couple of guys 70 or so miles short who might just beat him out. I hope he gets it it'll be nice to see the guy win the 50,000 first prize.


----------



## conditionfreak

We fly south. The release point was a new one for us, as in previous years we flew southwest. We released in Cartersville, Ga.

I sent my entire young bird team (9 birds), and only got one bird back thus far. LCC 457. He is my best bird and therefore that was to be expected.

Returns for the combine are devasting. Many have no birds back as of even this morning. I hope they all trickle in over the next day or so.

If I get no more birds back, I will only have an old bird team for next year, of 6 birds. 

Man, I hate with this kind of thing happens. If anyone gets any birds hanging around with COV or TCC bands, please contact me.


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## Xueoo

Congrats to 241.


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## ace in the hole

conditionfreak said:


> I sent my entire young bird team (9 birds), and only got one bird back thus far. LCC 457. He is my best bird and therefore that was to be expected.


Glad to see he made it back and that he was your first bird again. You should see some of those other birds back tonight or tomorrow morning.

I'm putting my best breeding pairs back with their original mates. I'll get you some off from those pairs to fly for next year.

Ace


----------



## Flapdoodle

MaryOfExeter said:


> I'm hoping 44 is supposed to be my 45


sorry Becky 45 



conditionfreak said:


> Gonna put a hit out for that SFL bird.
> 
> Gonna call my brother-in-law Bruno.
> 
> Good job SFL 241. Oh, and you too Marine Won. That long distance feral blood is starting to kick in.


Walt, Marine One was two seconds behind Karen's bird. I did not see them trap. I am still waiting for club results... I will post when I hear how we did.


----------



## conditionfreak

conditionfreak said:


> Second. Today was the Classic race for my combine and I had high hopes. But alas. Nothing yet. It is dark now and out of over two hundred birds, I have been told there are only 26 birds in by dark. There were 25 money spots, so I'm out. Apparently 18 birds arrived between 6 and 8 pm. No one in my club got birds today. ????
> 
> I can't explain these results. A beautiful day here, at the release point and all points between. Truly a smash race on a seemingly perfect day.



Had our payoff/knock off meeting today. Only 80 birds home out of about 200. Lots of missing birds. I got back a total of four from my nine. If prior to the race I would have been told that I would only get four birds back, the four I got back would have been the four I picked as most likely to return. I got 457, 105, 242 and 112. If another comes back tomorrow, I'm betting on 182 (looks like a seagull and I hate that look for a racing pigeon). It's got good blood in its veins.

Two guys in my club got no birds back and the rest got about 50% back.

Most of the combine is blaming the hot weather, but it was only 75 to 80. I think the most logical reason is that our flock crossed with someone elses flock.

We will probably never know the actual reason.

If someone needs decent racing pigeons, now is the time to ask veteran flyers. Many guys are cutting down their bird numbers and are offering birds for free, left and right. Of course they are not going to give away their best. But good birds are there for the taking. We had one guy quit pigeons forever today. He gave me his last 15 birds. I am keeping four and passing the rest to a new flyer just starting up, but who used to fly years ago. These are the best the previous owner had.


----------



## Flapdoodle

Club results are up on the AU: http://pigeon-ndb.com/race_reports.php?Org=Auburn%20RPC&DateRace=0&season=2010yb

SFL 241 and COV 100 were 1 second apart, 11 and 12 in the club, we only had 60 club birds, 6 lofts. It has been a tough season. I don't have the rest of the results. I was busy and could not get to knock off. I sent the clock with another flyer. I will get the full results tomorrow and then post them.


----------



## Flapdoodle

conditionfreak said:


> If someone needs decent racing pigeons, now is the time to ask veteran flyers. Many guys are cutting down their bird numbers and are offering birds for free, left and right. Of course they are niot going to give away their best. But good birds are there for the taking. We had one guy quit pigeons forever today. He gave me his last 15 birds. I am keeping four and passing the rest to a new flyer just starting up, but who used to fly years ago. These are the best the previous owner had.


I am getting out of birds as well. If anyone is interested I have about 25 birds you could call breeders as well as all the birds on the young bird team that have made it. Also those that have birds in the loft after next weeks race start thinking about wether or not you would like me to mail birds back. If not I have a couple of local guys that might want them or we could offer those here in the forum as well.


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

conditionfreak said:


> Gonna put a hit out for that SFL bird.
> 
> Gonna call my brother-in-law Bruno.
> 
> *Good job SFL 241*. Oh, and you too Marine Won. That long distance feral blood is starting to kick in.


Now, did I forget to tell ya, that when it came time to pick the birds to send, that I told Karen that I did sort of like that 241 ! Yes, now that I think about it, I am pretty sure that I said something like that ! .....

PS. That bird is so inbred, on paper at least, it should be a clone. I wasn't sure it would he be able to walk a straight line, let alone find it's way home ! Dam is two generations of brother to sister from the Duke of Earl, Sire is a son of Duke of Earl, sire's dam is grandaughter of Duke of Earl. What you would call a 100% Smith.


----------



## conditionfreak

Flapdoodle said:


> I am getting out of birds as well. If anyone is interested I have about 25 birds you could call breeders as well as all the birds on the young bird team that have made it. Also those that have birds in the loft after next weeks race start thinking about wether or not you would like me to mail birds back. If not I have a couple of local guys that might want them or we could offer those here in the forum as well.


You are getting out of racing pigeons completely?

Wow. What a bomb to us here. Just too busy I presume.


----------



## conditionfreak

conditionfreak said:


> If another comes back tomorrow, I'm betting on 182 (looks like a seagull and I hate that look for a racing pigeon) .


Well, I was wrong. My next bird home was my "auction bird", 5419. Man is she wore out. Wonder how many miles she flew? I can't wait until some very small gps devices are affordable enough to attach to my birds.


----------



## Flapdoodle

*SFL 241 or JEDD 15253? One race left...*

I updated the PT results link below. Still waiting on the full club and combine report. I know we don't have many birds still standing but our champ bird is going to be between SFL 241 and JEDD 15253. Here is the current points (points are underlined) standings based on 5 for 1st, 4 for 2nd... (sorted by this weeks trapping order) I know I held some birds back three weeks ago, so some may feel cheated... sorry about that. 

*SFL 241	 13*
COV 100 4
AIRBABY 33	3
TRC 45 6
AIRBABY 31	7
I 18800 0
*JEDDS 15253	15*
TRC 47 3
TRC 665  0

I shipped 11 birds to this race, LCC 464 was not in that night, had three birds trap Sunday AM not sure if he was in that group or not. I will check tonight.


----------



## Flapdoodle

conditionfreak said:


> You are getting out of racing pigeons completely?
> 
> Wow. What a bomb to us here. Just too busy I presume.


No bombs... I am getting out of breeding my own birds completely. It is a time issue. If I did not have cocks and hens in two different lofts in addition to a race team it would free up a good 1/2 hour each morning, more like an hour or more time when they are paired up and raising babies. It also frees up time around the holidays (no birds on the property NOV/DEC) that will make my wife happy. 

I have a loft in the works on paper. Three 8'x8' sections. Two with nest boxes, one with box perches. Red Rose style roof. Expanded metal floor. 

I will fly YB next year. My plan is to take birds from Jan 1 - March 1st. Get them on lights and molted out before the races start. I can get 60-80 yb from local guys here that would love to put birds in my loft.

I would rather get birds from members here and do a similar format as this year. I know I have had some significant issues though, so maybe another loft for our Pigeon Talk Classic would be better. I am very open and I am sure I could round up some local birds to send if we wanted to go to another handler/loft.


----------



## conditionfreak

Well, if Marine Won survives the season, I would like to have him back. If you put your #325 in the box also, that would be great.

Let me know if you need boxes and how to pay for the shipping charges. (see how I am assuming COV 100 will be back the next race.  Heck, I'm expecting him to win the next race. SFL 241 has to be tired from all of that bowing by now).


----------



## RodSD

Flap, 
Ok. So you are not getting out of pigeons completely, but just the breeding aspect of it. And that you will only do One loft event for younger birds. Just to clarify. For the moment there I thought you are quitting for good. If so I attribute it to overtraining (both of your birds and yourself). Your wife might have some good thought. She wants you to rest or something. Cuddle more with the wife even though I know there are beautiful pigeons in the loft (the whites and those beautiful SFL birds). <grin>


----------



## luckyloft

Are you going to be getting rid of the parents of AUB 325? Jeff


----------



## Xueoo

Flapdoodle said:


> I updated the PT results link below. Still waiting on the full club and combine report. I know we don't have many birds still standing but our champ bird is going to be between SFL 241 and JEDD 15253. Here is the current points (points are underlined) standings based on 5 for 1st, 4 for 2nd... (sorted by this weeks trapping order) I know I held some birds back three weeks ago, so some may feel cheated... sorry about that.
> 
> *SFL 241	 13*
> COV 100 4
> AIRBABY 33	3
> TRC 45 6
> AIRBABY 31	7
> I 18800 0
> *JEDDS 15253	15*
> TRC 47 3
> TRC 665  0
> 
> I shipped 11 birds to this race, LCC 464 was not in that night, had three birds trap Sunday AM not sure if he was in that group or not. I will check tonight.


Your 325 is in the running as well, tied with 241 at 13 points. That bird should have the rights to PT champ as well. 

On another note, them SFL birds seem to like the easy races. I'm hoping for wind and rain, hehe.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

conditionfreak said:


> Well, if Marine Won survives the season, I would like to have him back. *If you put your #325 in the box also, that would be great.*
> 
> Let me know if you need boxes and how to pay for the shipping charges. (see how I am assuming COV 100 will be back the next race.  Heck, I'm expecting him to win the next race. SFL 241 has to be tired from all of that bowing by now).


Nah I think he can stick that one in my box


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## SmithFamilyLoft

Flapdoodle said:


> I updated the PT results link below. Still waiting on the full club and combine report. I know we don't have many birds still standing but our champ bird is going to be between SFL 241 and JEDD 15253. Here is the current points (points are underlined) standings based on 5 for 1st, 4 for 2nd... (sorted by this weeks trapping order) I know I held some birds back three weeks ago, so some may feel cheated... sorry about that.
> 
> *SFL 241	 13*
> COV 100 4
> AIRBABY 33	3
> TRC 45 6
> AIRBABY 31	7
> I 18800 0
> *JEDDS 15253	15*
> TRC 47 3
> TRC 665  0
> 
> I shipped 11 birds to this race, LCC 464 was not in that night, had three birds trap Sunday AM not sure if he was in that group or not. I will check tonight.


Did we run out of races already ? Hard to keep track of all the events taking place in different locations. Some guys like an average speed vs points, because the likelyhood of a tie, is greatly reduced. If an average speed calculation would make me first, then that is what I would like...if it makes me 2nd, then I think I would stick with the points. 

What I would like to see, is a 400 mile event, on a head win type of day, so we could really settle the issue.


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## conditionfreak

Okay. I have settled on the trophy for the winner of this PT competition. I have not ordered it yet, but will as soon as a winner is established. Here is what it will look like. It is 22 inches tall. I can change the column colors to suit the winners choice. But I like blue. 










It will be inscribed (centered of course):

2010 CHAMPION
1st Annual Pigeon-Talk Classic
AU-2010-XXX-0000

I have not ordered it yet because I want to put the winning birds' band number on the trophy.

Hope everyone likes it. But I especially hope the winner likes it. I also hope it goes to someone who does not have a shelf full of them. The first trophy is always sweet.

I will arrange for the company I am ordering it from, to send it directly to the winner. No sense it coming to me and then having to be mailed again.


----------



## conditionfreak

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> What I would like to see, is a 400 mile event, on a head win type of day, so we could really settle the issue.


I agree with this desire.


----------



## Flapdoodle

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> What I would like to see, is a 400 mile event, on a head win type of day, so we could really settle the issue.


We are going to have to end the series with Elko NV 318 miles. Next year we can chip in for gas and shoot for a 400, maybe even send out a pool sheet. The weather Saturday looks good we have 90+ temps most the week, with cooling in the forcast Friday and Saturday.



luckyloft said:


> Are you going to be getting rid of the parents of AUB 325? Jeff


Parents are all going as well. I need to check with some guys in the club as some of them were gifts. I also offered Becky 325 + parents after the issue with the dog. After I do that I will get an inventory up. This will be first come first serve. Some have already spoken up for certain birds. 



conditionfreak said:


> Okay. I have settled on the trophy for the winner of this PT competition.
> 
> Hope everyone likes it. But I especially hope the winner likes it. I also hope it goes to someone who does not have a shelf full of them. The first trophy is always sweet.
> 
> I will arrange for the company I am ordering it from, to send it directly to the winner. No sense it coming to me and then having to be mailed again.


The trophy looks great! 



Xueoo said:


> On another note, them SFL birds seem to like the easy races. I'm hoping for wind and rain, hehe.


I think after all the birds had two weeks off (some of them three) we needed a easy blow home race.  I posted the club and combine reports on the link below.


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## g0ldenb0y55

That's a nice trophy! Now I want one!


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## pattersonk2002

*Trophy*



g0ldenb0y55 said:


> That's a nice trophy! Now I want one!


Looks like your going to have to wait untill next year. I will enter the Flapdooodle PT classic next year and try again for the trophy but only if MR. Tom Brasher is going to fly the birds. >Kevin

PS: It is a nice looking trophy, do we all still get the key chain?


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## g0ldenb0y55

Yeah, I wanted to join this year but I was too late in putting a pair together for youngbirds for the event. I'll make sure that doesn't happen next year.


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## luckyloft

Dog Gone it...... Becky beat me AGAIN!


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## Guest

anyone who gets any of his birds can only benefit from them in the world of racing .. if I had the room I wouldnt hesitate to take in a single one off his hands for just the price of shipping alone,you cant go wrong and they seem to do so well in the most hostile of enviroments to boot so grab them while you can.. I only wish I had the room to take in such great birds into my loft ,you would have to be crazy to pass up such great birds that flap has to offer !!


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## hillfamilyloft

Getting over the disappointment of not having birds in the race anymore, but do wish those who are left the best of luck. About time Becky gets a win. This year has been a tough one for me, with bird health issues and races so far. On a good note, Don Woodruff from PT, won a combine race in NC with a bird he bred off one I sold him. Good Job Don. 
Hopefully the PT birds can pull of a win for Flap. 
I am already thinking about what to do for next year. Love the competition. Good luck all.


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## conditionfreak

Couple of notes:

I toyed with the idea of getting all participants a key chain for rememberance of the 1st of hopefully many PT events. However, it would be such a hassle to mail all of those out to all of the individuals involved, that I am not going to do that. Sorry.

The pressure will be on me next year, to send a bird that can not only survive the series, but bring home the "prettiest bird" award again.  It ain't easy being pretty and tough at the same time. Trust me, I know. 

Hopefully, next year Warren will send some of his colored birds and not his wifes half white birds. Then we shall see the REAL racing pigeons perform.  Maybe something red.

I'm going to Cleveland tomorrow, to watch one of my futurity birds "come home" from a money race, to the handlers loft. It won 3rd place money last week (equal first actually) and the handler says it is looking good and ready. It should be fun to visit old friends. I did find it strange that they had their money race on a Friday up there. Ours are always on Saturday or Sunday here. But I guess it kinda makes sense so that they don't get mixed in with some other Combines birds on a Saturday.

This year at my home, it has been about the same with my birds here, as with my entries into the PT competition. Lost some, and some did "okay". But always a birdesmaid and never the bride. (er, ah, well...I didn't mean that I wanted to actually be a bri..................Oh, never mind. You get the idea). 

Good luck tomorrow to our birds. Any that make it home tomorrow are diffinitely good birds. My season here at home is over. I have 11 birds plus a few late hatches, for Old Birds next year. I don't have a lot of experience with racing pigeons, but one thing I do know is that late hatches NEVER work out well in old birds the following year. They are just "missing something" from not being born in the late winter or in spring time, I think. These racing pigeons are such mysterious little boogers.

Next year, LCC 457 matures and wins the world in Old Birds. Or at least the county.


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## hillfamilyloft

conditionfreak said:


> Couple of notes:
> 
> Next year, LCC 457 matures and wins the world in Old Birds. Or at least the county.


The bird I mentioned from Don is off the same bloodlines as 457. It's Grandfather and the Granddam of your bird are off the same Vic Miller Cock. The family has won a bunch of races between 200 and 300. I am earmarking birds off them for next years PT race. I am working the birds into the same crosses as ACE. So far they are flying pretty well in ABQ, just a few minutes out. Let us know if 457 is a cock or hen. Hopefully you can fly a few more from ACE next year.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

condition, Where are your race results posted? AU page etc. I would like to put the results of 457 on my webpage as flown by you if that would be ok. I will also post a pic if you have one. Like to have a running record of who is flying the bloodline. Heck might even advertise the PT race with winner. I know if Warren wins we will see his bird on his page.


----------



## conditionfreak

My club and combine does not post race results anywhere that I know of. We get the results via email.

I should take a pic of HIM. Nice looking blue bar.

But I'll wait until he actually wins something big. So far, he is my best bird. One club win and several top ten percent combine finishes. Hoping he comes on in old birds. Only time will tell.


----------



## Guest

hillfamilyloft said:


> condition, Where are your race results posted? AU page etc. I would like to put the results of 457 on my webpage as flown by you if that would be ok. I will also post a pic if you have one. Like to have a running record of who is flying the bloodline. Heck might even advertise the PT race with winner. I know if Warren wins we will see his bird on his page.


 Hillfamily loft I have this hen here that is so awesome looking its like the spitting image of your maverick cock there and everytime I look at your homepage and look at my hen I think of how great that cockbird looks and how much he looks like my hen .. its like those things that make you go hmmmmm!!!


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## pattersonk2002

*key chain*

Dang, no key chain, I suppose I will be more then happy if my bird makes it home from today's race.
It sure would be nice if we could find a way to do a 400, maybe we could all pitch in and have the birds driven out and just clock them when they hit the loft as first and so on. Since we would not be going against any other birds I don't see why this could not work other then the fact that Tom Say's no flucken way.
On another note, who is going to do the PT classic next year if Tom wishes not to? I really enjoyed this and feel it is truly a first in the way this race was interactive more then other's. Anyway I hope all the birds make it home today and we can see once and for all who does get that trophy, it's pretty close here SchMITY Bruno just might have made hit. >Kevin


----------



## Flapdoodle

*Still to close to call...*

We only have three birds in as of 3:40, another tuff race.

1st Airbaby 31 (congrats)
2nd TRC 665
3rd SFL 241

Going into the race SFL was down 2 points, with a third place today he is right now our high point bird. There is only one bird that can catch him, JEDD 15253. If JEDD traps fourth he will be our high point bird.

To be continued...


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## Flapdoodle

*SFL 241 Takes The Trophy!!!*

We have two more birds:

4th TRC 45
5th AUB 325

*Kudo's to Warren/Kathy*. I will post more info when I get the club report. I just got the phone call that they postponed knock off until tomorrow because so few birds are back. The birds have had a pretty good head wind.


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## Matt Bell

Alright Warren, tell us about the parents of 241, inbred? linebred? cross? or just a couple birds you had laying around?


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## A_Smith

Matt Bell said:


> Alright Warren, tell us about the parents of 241, inbred? linebred? cross? or just a couple birds you had laying around?


 Congradulations Kathy for picking your winning bird. And to Warren also for getting it to the post office in time.

From 2 of Warren's posts on this thread:Now, if the birds have not done well, then it's the wife's fault ! If by some chance, they made a good showing of themselves, well...then since I banded them, I should get at least some of the credit !!


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## bbcdon

Congratulations Warren!!!


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## RodSD

I wont be surprised if Warren's birds might win this. It is a matter of which birds will take it. He got good(best) stocks so my expectation is higher. You don't pay high sum of money for stockers for nothing. Looking at his pigeon videos in youtube convinced me of that. It pays to pay higher for pigeons that are proven.


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## Gnuretiree

Congatulations to Warren for winning... and thanks to Tom for the hard work and efforts he put in the handling of the birds.. I really enjoyed it and I didn't have a bird in the mix.

Hugh


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## RodSD

Maybe we should have like hall of champion (PT) icon besides our avatar name or something.


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## maniac

Congratulations to SFL and all the other participants. I am not into the racing aspect of pigeons but this thread has been a great read from start to finish. I have thoroughly enjoyed the shared experience.


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## Xueoo

Congrats to 241. Takes a tough bird to finish this series on top.


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## hillfamilyloft

On a good note, congrats Warren. On a bad note, I thought our birds would have done better in the combine. The race course took its toll. If we send birds to Flap next year, we need to send him tougher birds. One goal should be to get him to the top of the race sheets. All in all, good race. Fun to watch. 
Thanks Flap


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## conditionfreak

Congratulations to SmithFamilyLofts for winning the inagural PT racing pigeon competition.

Job well done by Mr. and Mrs. Smith (did you ever see that movie?) , SFL 241, and Flapdoodle (Tom) as well.

It has been fun. I hope the rest of the birds make it home.

Have I mentioned before, that wife darling is a "Smith" by birth? Can't be too many of those around, can there? 

I have a good pigeon story to tell, after this is over. Had a fun weekend in Cleveland at a money race there.


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

*Smith Family Loft USA comes in 1st Place !*

*SFL 241 Takes The Trophy!!!* 


Thank you all for allowing me to send birds to this event. I want to thank my wife Karen, who I must give credit, since she picked them out of the crate, and said they were the pretty ones !! 

I also would like to thank Flapdoodle for all the work and effort he has put into this event. And to all who sent birds to this event. It was fun, and provided one of the most sucessful threads here at Pigeon Talk.


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## SmithFamilyLoft

*Now you know the rest of the story.....*



Matt Bell said:


> Alright Warren, tell us about the parents of 241, inbred? linebred? cross? or just a couple birds you had laying around?


OK Matt, 

You must have missed my post, see : http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=511689&postcount=832

The bird is a pure *Warren Smith*, most people expect me to provide some excotic names, but the bird is an inbred, and should be very useful for breeding, as I would think this event has shown he/she can find his/her way back home. He/She will now be crossed onto another inbred line which is totally unrelated. 

Of interest to the regular readers of these pages, is the sire was returned to me by Ken Munson who was a regular contributor to these pages. I had "sold" him to Ken for $1 back in 2004 ? After he produced some winners from him, he sent him back to me last fall, and so I paired him to grandchildren of his sire "Duke of Earl". The dam was the result of a brother/sister pairing "Duke of York" x "Dutchess of York". 

And just to respond to another thread, where there was debate over "Bred for Stock"...the dam of this bird was bred late in the year, and was just too darn perfect looking to sell, so I kept her as a "Bred For Stock".  So, now she has earned a little gold star next to her name, so a few more of those and she is a keeper.


----------



## Pigeon lower

Congrats on the win,

Now whos going to pay the price for the drug test to make sure no steriods were put into his bird and he didnt cheat, ahah  Just joking.

Goodjob


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## RodSD

Wow Pigeon_lower! What an accusation! Have respect! Unless you wrote that tongue-in-cheek....

I think steroids will not stay that long in the body of pigeons. I also don't see any motivations for it. Warren's bird win because of their ability and not on some performance enhancing drugs.

I also have respect for Flap. I think he has integrity. So he won't be selectively making birds win for his own gain.


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## conditionfreak

Rod, he was joking. I am sure.


----------



## RodSD

conditionfreak,

I think so, too. I may have over-reacted.


----------



## Big T

RodSD said:


> conditionfreak,
> 
> I think so, too. I may have over-reacted.


I thought it was a funny joke. All you have to do is read this whole race from beginning to end to know and many of us have. Warren you won bragging rights. Congrats old friend!! You and your bird has earned it.

Tony


----------



## RodSD

I read the whole thing since the very beginning. Yeah, it was a sparring fight in a humorous way.

I don't like steroids joke if you noticed so maybe that is why I overreacted. In bodybuilding they use those jokes as well, and, unfortunately people end up associating muscles with steroids. Unfortunately some bodybuilders use them and those that don't use it suffers from association. Fortunately in pigeon racing there is no association of such matters (hopefully).


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## TAWhatley

Congratulations to all who actually participated in this race and especially to Tom who really did all the heavy lifting. I have enjoyed this thread immensely and hope that it was a good experience for all.

Warren .. congrats to you and your wife on having picked and sent the winner here.

I hope you all can find a way to do this again next year, and I do understand and appreciate all the time and effort that went into making this happen.

You know, there are days when I just want to run and hide and not have to deal with another b***s**t issue on Pigeon-Talk, and then I see how you all CAN and DO work together to pull off this race, how other members CAN and DO work together to pull off impressive and much needed rescues .. perhaps I (and others) just need to have more faith in what the possibilities are here on Pigeon-Talk! 

Terry


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## hillfamilyloft

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> OK Matt,
> 
> You must have missed my post, see : http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=511689&postcount=832
> 
> 
> 
> And just to respond to another thread, where there was debate over "Bred for Stock"...the dam of this bird was bred late in the year, and was just too darn perfect looking to sell, so I kept her as a "Bred For Stock".  So, now she has earned a little gold star next to her name, so a few more of those and she is a keeper.


To add to the breed for stock debate. In our club race from 150 this weekend Ken Easley took 15 our of 16 of the top positions. I snuck a bird in flown by Cliff Spencer in the 8th spot. The bird I bred off a hen I wanted for stock. She was off DRO 821 from my Ed and Charlotte breeding for Miller Loft. His sister won 1st from 250 and his daughter won 1st from 200 in the club. I took a sibling hen out of 821 and its cross to breed back into my stock. 
The correlation between what Warren did and What I did was that we both new the stock and the results they obtain. Not to mention Warren's stock sense in keeping the bird for breeding. 
Siblings of winners and young off of winning breeders is not a bad place to start. If you can do both even better. 821 is also a sibling to the bird that bred Don Woodruff's combine winner last weekend. 
Warren's Duke of Earl family is a strong winning family. Looking at a few of his pedigrees, I see how this is his foundation family. Crossing in Ludo and President stock etc to make it stronger. 
We can all learn a lesson here on what to do. Vic Miller brought in Jos Thone birds to spice up his Snow bird family. Scherlauckens does the same thing. Marcel Sangers brought in the Koopmans.


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## jpsnapdy

Congrats to 241 and Warren and special mention to Tom for his integrity and superb handling!


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## dogging_99

Congrats on the win, Warren & Karen! and of course #241, Good show Tom from the Pretty bird Contest to the last race! Good Job!!


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## conditionfreak

Not to take away from the incredible PT competition and win by SFL 241 from SmithFamilyLofts. But I have a story from this past weekend that I want to share. This is as good a place as any to do it.

As I had posted somewhere here earlier, I won 3rd place in the Cleveland area OCR futurity race a week ago. The handler of my 3rd place bird is a life long friend of mine. He actually won 1st, 2nd and 3rd in that race. Congratulations to Don Campbell for that win (and thanks for the money). He also won the OCR race last year.

This past weekend, his area was having another money race, but with lesser payoffs. He asked me if I wanted to enter my bird in that for 12 bucks. I said that I would and asked him to pool it up to 3 dollars. I then told him I would like to come up and visit and watch the birds come in. He said that would be great. So early Saturday morning I drove up there and got to his home about 1:00 pm.

After re-acquainting (we haven't seen each other in about twenty years), we settled down to pigeon talk and race talk. The race for him was 295 miles and he estimated that the winner of this race would clock somewhere around 2:30 pm. I agreed. Winds were okay and the weather in general was nice.

So, we are talking pigeons and he is going in and out of his loft and bringing birds to let me handle. I know way less about pigeons than Donny, but I was proud that of the ten or so birds I handled, I mentioned two in particular as birds that felt like a million bucks and were exceptionally nice in the hand. I was proud because Donny smiled and said those were his two best.

So, at 2:07 pm, Donny was in the coop getting another pigeon to show me and out of the corner of my eye I saw a pigeon land on the coop roof. I said to Donny "you got birds out here" and he came running out of the loft saying "come on, come on, come on". Just then the bird drops onto the landing board and Donny says "oh no, thats my hen that NEVER traps well". He gets a stick in his hand and tries to guide the bird into the trap, but watching it, you can tell it is about to fly off. So he quickly lifts up on the aviary door front which was hanging down and flips it up over and traps the bird on the landing board. Then as we waves the stick in front of it, the birds goes into the trap and you could hear the sound of the Benzing electronic clock register it.

All in all, this all took only about twelve seconds or so. But seemed like an erternity to him, I am sure. I am happy for him, but looking to the sky for my entry. 

Donny proceeds to tell me that this hen always lands early, but then flys around to the other side where the prisoner cock birds are at and gives them all of her attention, and traps very late everytime. He says this was the first time he was able to close the aviary door on her before she flew off.

In about three minutes or so, he gets another bird. Then about fifteen minutes later, he gets a group of maybe six or seven. My entry is in that group and she only took 32nd place in the combine. 

The phone starts ringing and Donny makes some calls himself. It is all sounding good over the phone for his first bird, until one guy who flys about 20 miles shorter, tells him that he clocked 31 minutes earlier than Donny did. As a matter of fact, he says that he got three on the drop at that time.

I told Donny that I don't believe that. I said it of course is possible, but in my opinion unlikely. Because this particular guy, according to race results I have seen, has not done anywhere near that well in the past. Donny is unsure, but does say that he and this guy sometimes "play games" and joke around with each other.

I tell Donny that "I just saw the winner come in. What a thrill". Donny says "maybe, we'll find out tonight". I say that it is a winner for sure and not to believe what he heard over the phone. I have been there before. That was an early bird that came from the right direction to be a winner, and all alone.

Unlike where I live, Donny lives in the big city and there are "commons" flying all over the place. So we had a lot of false sightings during all of this. Which was unusual for me. Where I live, if I see a pigeon flying, it is a racing pigeon. It sometimes is not mine, but is from the race.

After the race is over, I am leaving to go visit another friend in that area, and Donny aks me if I brought a pigeon basket with me like he had told me to do over the phone the previous day. I said "oh yea, as a matter of fact I brought you a couple of gifts that I made". I gave him two, two bird baskets that I had hand made. Then I brought out my aluminum crate and Donny went into this loft, again and again, handing me birds and telling me about them. He gave me two pair of birds and they are NICE. I didn't want his birds for free (I don't accept gifts well) (it's just the way I am. I like to earn or pay for what I get). But he insisted I take them. Saying something like "I can't have those guys down in Cincy beating my buddy". I mumbled something about "it ain't my birds Donny, it's me". 

Anyway. One pair he gave me are Gaby Vandenabeel lines and one pair are Janssens from a well known flyer down in Florida.

The main bird he gave me has its picture in the October 1st, 2010, Racing Pigeon Digest on page 37. The bird is called "Atom Bomb". This bird has a fifty dollar band on it. Here is the pic from the Digest, for those that do not get the magazine. Oh, one note. The child in the photo is not actually Donnys son, but a close friend of the family. The Digest got it wrong because when they asked Donny who the child was, he responded "he is like a son to us". The childs last name is not Campbell. But his first name is Adam.

It was a great weekend. Only way it could have been better, was if my entry was the first bird. But what ya gonna do. I found out the next day that Donny did in fact win first place and the top prize money again. He the man!


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## pattersonk2002

*The book of flapdoodle*

I started reading from the first post this morning, by the time I got to page 8 I realised I was reading the first book I've read in a long time. 

Now that the race is over, I am thinking I will just reread a little at a time. 
There is one thing that stands out here,that I have read. At one point it seems that there was a gentleman that basically refused to enter the race, I don't see any reason for bringing his name into it but somehow it was written that he might allow his wife (Karen) to enter some of her birds into the race and would only hold the basket until the birds where into the shipping box.

OK, Maybe there is more to it then that but I do know one thing, I would not have been able to send birds to this race if it was not for my wife's permission. I give my Congratulations to SFL for winning the first annual PT classic and truly look forward to racing against Karen again in the coming years.

I had to laugh when I seen the #'s on the last post by coditionfreak was 881, if you turn that around and add 2 zero's it is 18800, the number of my bird. I noticed he finally decided to come home and my wife is very happy he did since that was her choice and mine (18799) was MIA early in the race. I am not sure what numbers go to who at this time so, at this time all I can say congrats to all the winners and please stand up and bow to all the FLAPPING. >Kevin


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## Flapdoodle

*Club Report*

I updated the club report link and PT link below. The ten birds I sent in the A race, the PT birds all made it home . 

I have a few thoughts. I would like to thank everyone that sent birds. It was a lot of fun. I am sorry for the losses. In looking at this, we started with 31 PT birds. We ended up with 10 home from the last race, with two that sat out (Jeff's white TRC with the bad wing and Big T's NPA bird). 60% losses. That is higher then I have ever had but not that far from normal for this course. 

I am a competitive person so naturally look at how I can improve. Part of that is recognizing mistakes and learning from them.

Now for the flapdoodles, I only list them in the hopes that others will learn from my mistakes, some will apply to only my course, and some would apply in any situation.

Flapdoodle #1 BAD RELEASE POINTS: If you recall I had three bad tosses in a row where the birds were hit by raptors all three we had birds make it back hurt and we lost birds. All three points have issues and I will not use them again. The first bad toss was Yuba Gap. There was a fire there ten years or so ago. I did not think about it at the time but not a lot of cover over a large area. I think this would be a spot where a raptor flying high above or perched would have easy pickings and it may be a good hunting spot for them. The second bad toss was Sugar Bowl very picturesque spot but the birds are at the base of a mountain they have to go over. Huge granite cliffs and wide open, another good spot for raptors. The third bad spot was the east side of Donner Pass. I released them right at the base of the mountain they had to climb a good 2,000 feet to get over the hill. On this toss, they circled back and forth as if they did not know where to go for several minutes. Had I given them a 5-10 miles east of the pass to get there bearings before they reach this huge wall of granite at 7,500’ I do not think they would hesitate at all and just fly up and over. Raptors are part of the course we fly and a problem for everyone, but I think my choice in release points could help limit the loss.

Flapdoodle #2 BAD FEED AND WATER CHOICE: I ran out of feed in the last week of July. I went to the feed store and had to order more feed I decided to order Purina pellets. If you feed your birds a seed mix and you are not there to feed them, you end of with fast trappers eating all the stuff they want and the slow trappers end up with high protein peas and what ever is left. It is far better to feed a little of the mix, wait until that is gone then feed a little more, etc. I figure I would try the pellets. The instructions on the package say they don’t need any other minerals, vitamins, or anything like that. I switch feeds cold turkey and the birds are fine. We did of the first couple of races and even had a combine win in there on 100% pellets. Well I wasn’t paying close enough attention. I figure I would try one of the medication programs that are out there to help keep the pigeons healthy. There are many health programs out there Australian Pigeon Company, Global, I am sure Jedds recommends one as well as Siegels. A guy in the club purchased some birds from Mike Ganus. Along with the birds, he received the Vita King Health program. It outlines what to mix in the drinker and when. I figure what the heck I will give it a try. What I failed to pay attention to is the directions on the pellets, which clearly say no other supplements required. The vita king stuff has vitamins and minerals in every mix. So the birds are getting vitamins and minerals in the pellets, they are also getting them in the drinker. Compound that problem with 90 to 100 degree weather and what do you get? Kidney Damage, Liver Damage, organs shutting down. For those that add medication or vitamins in the water we all need to consider how much the birds are drinking. In the winter it isn’t mush in the summer it is tons. I think stand-alone pellets given correctly have a lot of merit in the future I will probably try to use them again. The fifth and sixth race I pulled the pellets and the vita king stuff and the birds cleared up. I don’t think I had cocci or anything else I think the loose droppings and dip in the performance was purely my fault… it might not of all been the feeding and water it was also the loft which leads me to #3.

Flapdoodle #3 BAD/INCORRECT LOFT CONDITIONS: The loft I use was converted from a three-sided shed 8x12 feet. In 2004, I walled off the front and put in a wood floor giving me a box. I cut vents in the back wall (south) along the bottom of the loft. I also cut vents in the north wall at the top. It is a very closed in loft. In 2005 my first year of racing I won over 30 diplomas in the club and combine with multiple 1st, 2nd, 3rd. The loft worked great. This year before I received birds I added more perches. I didn’t have any along the north so I put some up. No real problem with that at first. Our temperature is pretty constant most the summer it is hot and only cools down to the mid 70 most the nights if that. Well about the middle of September it started to cool off at night. So we have 100 days and a 30-degree swing, which is not all that great for the form of a racing pigeon. Not to mention the racing pigeons that perched on the north wall. We were getting a good breeze in the night blowing southwest. I was in the loft one night and had my back to the south wall my calves felt cold. That cold evening air was blowing in the vents at the south wall floor across all the perches on the north wall. Basically creating a draft. Even if there was no wind the warm air in the loft escaping out of the top vents replaced with cold air in the bottom vents was going across those perches. So what I did was covered those vents each evening. After about a week, form was starting to come back in the pigeons, a drop of down feathers in the morning on the floor. 

I don’t know if that makes sense to anyone or not but it is very clear to me that my handling is what led to sitting out those two races and some (not all) the losses. After I corrected the issues, the birds perked up and we finished the season, not sure about the combine but I did manage to pull a club win in the B race from Elko this week.


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## Flapdoodle

Here are the birds still in the loft. Please shoot me a PM with home address on where you would like them shipped. My plan is to get the birds to the post office on Monday for a Tuesday or Wednesday delivery next week, I am fine paying for shipping and then billing you after I know the cost. If that will not work let me know. *Anyone that wants can leave the bird with me. I have another flyer that is new this last year and looking for potential birds to breed from.* Please shoot me a PM and let me know what you would like to do. 

AU 2010 AIRBABY 31
IF 2010 TRC 665
AU 2010 SFL 241
IF 2010 TRC 45
AU 2010 AUB 325
IF 2010 TRC 47
AU 2010 AIRBABY 33
AU 2010 JEDDS 15253
AU 2010 COV 100
AU 2010 I 18800


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## Pigeon lower

Clearing things up, It was a joke i stated below and was not intended to cause any problems. I edited the post making it better understanding so hopfully no bad feelings are out.


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## conditionfreak

AU 2010 AIRBABY 31
IF 2010 TRC 665
AU 2010 SFL 241
IF 2010 TRC 45
AU 2010 AUB 325
IF 2010 TRC 47
AU 2010 AIRBABY 33
AU 2010 JEDDS 15253
AU 2010 COV 100
AU 2010 I 18800

Congrats to the senders of these birds. As evidenced from reading this entire thread and the info above from Flapdoodle, this was a tough season. Tough course and tough competition. The above birds survived and several excelled. I am proud that my bird is still in the loft, even if he didn't win. What more could a pigeon flyer ask of his racers, other than they come home as quickly as they are capable of, and perservere.

Flapdoodle, are you going to list any birds that are available for "adoption", and can be put in the shipping boxes with our own birds? Or are they all going to flyers in your area?

PM sent c/w getting Marine Won back to me.


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## luckyloft

Just wanted to say THANKS to Flap for all the hard work! Its hard enough to make decisions about our own birds but to have everybodys birds involved must have made for some sleepless nights.I have really enjoyed this series of races.I am on a very limited income and cannot afford the one loft races,its hard enough just scraping up enough money to fly in my club and combine so this was a wonderful chance to send some birds to see how they would stack up with other peoples birds.And most of all to read all the good natured fun going back and forth!I dont think I really read anything negative about anyone involved.I am proud of how my bird did he made a good showing in the end and very happy about how Beckys birds preformed.So thanks again for the work Tom and congradulations to Warren, and for everyone who sent in birds this race could not have happened with out all of you. Jeff


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## Flapdoodle

Before all the dust settles on this deal I needed to thank a few other folks. Big shout out to everyone who sent birds. I have to mention, we did have two that had 100% returns through the training, hawks, handling, and races. Way to go Airbaby and MaryofExeter. 

From a year ago when this first started I need to thank first and foremost 1981 (don’t know who he is) it was his idea that got this started. Without Lovebirds, Keystonepaul, MaryofExeter, and especially Big T I would not have been able to get this thing off the ground. 

Don't hate me but as far as the birds I have here in the loft that I raised. There is a guy here in the club that got my clock to the club half the time for knockoff as well as most of the training that took place after the races started. I need to give him pick of the YB team as well as my breeders. I can’t bite the hand that feeds me so to speak. He is a great guy but doesn’t have a cent to spend on birds. He has been racing 30 years and never once bought birds. Anyway big thanks to Larry Big Dog Holmes. 

I hear in a couple of weeks we should be treated to a special YouTube video of our Champ Bird, Breeder, and the trophy!!


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## hillfamilyloft

Do we have to watch it?

On another note. I am auctioning young birds to help my wife raise money for her breast cancer walk. The winner of the young birds can send three to the PT race If they want. This might give someone that does not have birds a chance to participate. My bloodline cross breeds did not do too well, but I think I have a bird out there with Smith blood, I could breed off. I am definitely going to send birds off my best next year. I am putting the info in another post. 

P.S. The video better have the real winner in it. She knows who she is.


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## conditionfreak

Ha Ha.

Hey folks. I ordered the trophy by phone two days ago. The assured me that the trophy would be delivered to the winner (Mrs. Smith et all), by this weekend.

I am sure we will get a video of the winner and the trophy. Warren loves his video camera, and he knows we all love his videos.

P.S. Hey Flapdoodle. If by some chance, my COV 108 that was lost early, shows up. Or you get a phone call about it. Please contact me and I will do whatever it takes to get it back to me. I never leave my birds "hanging". They presumably give it their all, so I should also.

Unless somebody there wants it. But I don't know why they would.  It must be part tumbler.


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## conditionfreak

Trophy arrived today.

Great fun for all.

Thanks Flapdoodle.


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## SmithFamilyLoft

hillfamilyloft said:


> Do we have to watch it?
> 
> On another note. I am auctioning young birds to help my wife raise money for her breast cancer walk. The winner of the young birds can send three to the PT race If they want. This might give someone that does not have birds a chance to participate. My bloodline cross breeds did not do too well, but I think I have a bird out there with Smith blood, I could breed off. I am definitely going to send birds off my best next year. I am putting the info in another post.
> 
> *P.S. The video better have the real winner in it. She knows who she is.*




I can tell you one thing, it sure is a beautiful trophy !! Now, the wife is trying to say it is her trophy, but I am thinking I paired the parents, but at any rate, Karen has placed it in a place of honor in the home and is already passing it off as "her" trophy, so, now all I have to do, is get her over her camera shyness, and let me film the two of them together !


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## hillfamilyloft

Finally Warren is coming to his senses.


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## Flapdoodle

conditionfreak said:


> Trophy arrived today.
> 
> Great fun for all.
> 
> Thanks Flapdoodle.


*Thanks Conditionfreak for supplying the trophy!!!* 

Can't wait to see it. 

Warren, Wait to make your video until after Kathy gets her bird back.


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## conditionfreak

Ya know. I expected Warren to brag a lot more than he has.

I would have no problem with that, as this is and was all about bragging rights. It started that way and should end that way.

So, c'mon Warren. Tell us all how you knew all along this bird would win and win big. Tell us how, of the three you sent for this event, you knew SFL 241 was the better bird. Tell us how your wife picked out the other two and that was all you were going to send, but then you told her "Honey, maybe we should send one of the really good ones also".



HaHaHa Fun times on the PT forum.

Hey....I should get me a trophy for having the "Prettiest Bird", that even survived the season.  I saw a trophy that resembles a toilet seat and says "Loser Award".

Beats nothing. Meh.

Hope we have more contestants next year. Fifty would be nice. If so, a limit of two birds per loft might be in order. Don't want Flapdoodle to get overwhelmed. Maybe even one bird? Now that would be tough picking for us all.


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## Flapdoodle

*I feel terrible...*

Well I guess I can’t get through this season without pulling one more major “flapdoodle”. 

I just received word that one of the boxes arrived without shavings and missing four birds. I know I had shavings in the box with the five birds. When it was opened in the loft in NC, it had very little shavings and only one bird. I have the receipt that shows the box three pounds heavier then any of the other six boxes I shipped. I know I had the birds in the box when it left Sacramento. I may have not had the box secured. I thought I had the box taped up and I used new zip ties. It was a bigger box with a viewing window as near as I can tell the viewing window must have come open and the birds got out. 

Becky and Jeff I am sorry. I hope that it happened on my end and the birds will be in the loft tonight.

I guess we could make it two "flapdoodles". I send birds with much of the country this week with severe weather warnings. 

Hope the other six boxes arrive safe and secure.


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## MaryOfExeter

What?? How can that even happen? The PO is supposed to make sure everything is secure before shipping them! It sounds like the handle may have gotten taken off somehow, and the top opened up. Or the PO was more rough than they were supposed to be. Or, someone deliberately opened it.



Regardless, I don't blame you.
I was looking forward to breeding out of my own birds


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## pattersonk2002

*Properly shipped*

I just posted my USPS tracking of my box in general descussions, my box came in as described and the birds are fine. My hands are in the air with a WTF, I hope things work out somehow. >Kevin


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## Crazy Pete

Congrats Warren on the CHAMPION BIRD, And also to AIRBABY For FIRST BIRD. I have fallowed this thread from the start, it has been a great read.
Dave


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## pattersonk2002

*Missing*

I am thinking somewhere along the line somebody did a STUPIDDOODLE, I truly believe Tom had the box secured as I am certain this is not his first time at this. I think some dumb A tried to see what was in there and these birds being so high strung at the opening , they just bolted.

I am saying this because, I had a small mishap when the wife and I where removing the birds from the box. I set up a separate cage for them to be in with fresh food, water and grit. I placed the first bird in the cage and TOLD the wife don't let him out he wants to fly, you guessed it, thank Myself I had both outside doors of the loft shut and he flew into the soffit and hid. We all know how fast this can happen, the second bird was locked down and I got the ladder to get him and they are both resting quietly now. I know if that box would have been opened outside or the door to the loft was open at least one bird would be heading threw a storm back to Sacramento. I hope like Tom said, the birds are close and there will be a second chance. >Kevin


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## luckyloft

Well I really cant understand what the heck happened! I picked up the box from the post office and thought this box does not feel like 5 birds.But I wanted to get them home and thought maybe I misunderstood how Tom was shipping them.Got home opened the box and 1 bird. The box was tapped on top and had zip ties through the top looked very secure.I have taken the box back to the post office and told them what happened.We looked at the box and it was tapped on the bottom pretty heavy. I wonder if the bottom came open somehow and everything came out.Iam not really sure how mine 1 bird managed to stay in the box!I told the PO the main thing was by some miracle if they got a call from Charlotte about some pigeons somewhere in a box or in there shipping area those are our birds.Tom I DO NOT BLAME YOU. I am sure you had that box ready to go.THe lady at the post office said it was insured because it was sent express the only problem was proving what happened.She kept the box and was going to check with her post master to see what to do next.Becky sorry looks like its been one heck of a year for you! Jeff


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## RodSD

What happened to the box is almost unbelievable to believe, but I am not surprised with USPS anymore. I had a box with a big lettering that said "FRAGILE" and "HANDLE WITH CARE" and the box still came back broken (with holes) with the contents broken into pieces.

Maybe to prove that 5 birds were there probably one has to show that each compartment has poops on it. My guess is that someone either opened it or accidentally got opened unless the birds are houdinis. I hope that Tom didn't mislabel them and sent the wrong birds as in got swapped accidentally. If they got lost they will be probably be back to Tom's place--that would be a heck of long distance travel.


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## SmithFamilyLoft

conditionfreak said:


> Ya know. *I expected Warren to brag a lot more than he has.*
> I would have no problem with that, as this is and was all about bragging rights. It started that way and should end that way.
> 
> So, c'mon Warren. Tell us all how you knew all along this bird would win and win big. Tell us how, of the three you sent for this event, you knew SFL 241 was the better bird. Tell us how your wife picked out the other two and that was all you were going to send, but then you told her "Honey, maybe we should send one of the really good ones also".
> 
> 
> 
> HaHaHa Fun times on the PT forum.
> 
> Hey....I should get me a trophy for having the "Prettiest Bird", that even survived the season. I saw a trophy that resembles a toilet seat and says "Loser Award".
> 
> Beats nothing. Meh.
> 
> Hope we have more contestants next year. Fifty would be nice. If so, a limit of two birds per loft might be in order. Don't want Flapdoodle to get overwhelmed. Maybe even one bird? Now that would be tough picking for us all.


Well....give me some time...I still have to do a short video with the wife. 
Truth be told, when I opened the box, I thought I had gotten the wrong bird back. Then I remembered the bird, and I really thought this bird would suffer the same fate as the white ones. This bird is as white as a silver can get. 

The breeding was there, and the race results were what one would expect. I left the wife pick some from a basket, trying to give ya all a fair chance. You will remember I was going to sit the race out, since I am professional, but had things worked out differently, my entry would have really given folks something to brag about. I know Conditionfreak was a hoping and a praying that he could win the beautiful trophy he donated, and I am sure it would have given him a life time of bragging...of when he once beat a SFL bird in a race !!! Sorry Conditionfreak and others, maybe someday.......

As my Pappy use to say, it is no disgrace to lose to a Champion, so give yourselves all a good pat on the back ! 

I am sorry to hear of the lost birds by way of USPS, maybe they got out close by and there still could be a happy ending to the story.


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## MaryOfExeter

I originally thought either the handle came off somehow and the top opened up, or the bottom fell out. But both ends were taped up good apparently. So I have no idea.  The viewing window doesn't seem like it would pop out or anything.
I really hope it happened soon after shipping so that the birds have a chance getting back to the loft. If not...then whoever does make it back...if they make it back...then I definitely want them for breeding! 
In the meantime, I'm waiting for a found-bird call.


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## luckyloft

Well I have went over my day again in my mind and I believe something happened to the top of the box.When I opened the box the top was not really up like a teepee.It started up but then was kind of flat on top and the top ends were kind of pushed in.I know that may not give you a good idea of how it looked but from what I remember I think the top either was opened or came open at some point, I think after it happened they just kind of pushed the top togeather and tapped it up.I think something bad happened to the box for all the shaving to come out, mat have tipped over. I could not see the viewing window when I received the box only after it was opened. Jeff


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## MaryOfExeter

That makes sense. The PO seems to think a little (or lot) of tape can fix anything damaged  Something get torn open? Oh that's okay, we'll just cover it in tape and send it on its way. No need to worry about what may have gotten lost from inside the package.


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## Flapdoodle

MaryOfExeter said:


> ...then whoever does make it back...if they make it back...then I definitely want them for breeding!
> In the meantime, I'm waiting for a found-bird call.


I will keep a lookout. The loft has already been converted back to a dirt floor goat shed. They won't be happy when they get home... the goats really stink. 

I sent seven boxes of birds, seven different states. As far as the tracking info goes from the post office, all boxes have been picked up or delivered. The only one I have not heard from yet is Airbaby, I would like to think no news is good news. 

It seems a little strange not to have any birds. 

Almost 100% pigeon free... I have my wife's pretty white bird (a gift from Big T), who happens to be a cock. It paired up with a steady plodder, who went to all the races, she happens to be mostly white. I will try their babies out. If I remember right in tosses shorter then 35 miles the white cock was first. Anything further then that he was an hour behind. I am thinking steady plodder with that short distance super speed and I will have some amazing champion mostly white birds.


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## conditionfreak

Obviously the box came open or was opened intentionally, and the birds flew the coop (so to speak).

My guess is that it was not accidental and someone was curious. Thinking it was chicks or something not so quick. Probably opened it to look inside and one came flying at them, and they panicked and dropped the box, with one bird still in the box wondering what the heck was going on.

So they taped it up and sent it on its way, with the one bird inside.

Hopefully they show up back at Flapdoodles.

P.S.

Marine Won showed up Wednesday morning, safe and healthy. He is now visiting with his father (wonder if they recognize each other as "family"?).

P.S. again. Warren. I admit SFL 241 did beat Marine Won by two seconds in the 300. A shame those other two high bred racing pigeons of yours didn't make the cut when the men got separated from the boys.  When you think about it, if you had just sent those two (like I and most just sent two), you wouldn't even be on the sheet. 

So, in fact. Marine Won beat the tar out of two of your horses. Beat them by twenty furlongs.  Not to even mention that he won the "Pretiest Bird" award.

HaHaHaHa


But credit where credit is due. You won and won by a lot. Like I said before the competition even started. You had everything to lose and little to gain. Being the pro going up against the amateurs. You manned up and did it (sort of, with the wifey thing), and for that and the win, I give you proper credit. No matter the details, you got the trophy.

(darn it) 

Like the Bengals and Browns always say. "There's always next year". 

You better get some new stock, because I have. (wink wink)


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## Flapdoodle

*Final Results*

The combine results came in for the last race. I went through the champion bird report and pulled out all my/our birds. It just lists the first 200. I did have a couple in front of that SFL bird. However that SFL bird scored in the combine 5 out 6 races I sent it on. If I were going to pick the best bird in the loft, I would have to go with Warren, I mean Kathy’s bird. Then probably our Jedds banded bird. Check it out…. 

Final champion bird report

Club and Combine Reports


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## MaryOfExeter

conditionfreak said:


> _Obviously the box came open or was opened intentionally, and the birds flew the coop (so to speak).
> 
> My guess is that it was not accidental and someone was curious. Thinking it was chicks or something not so quick. Probably opened it to look inside and one came flying at them, and they panicked and dropped the box, with one bird still in the box wondering what the heck was going on.
> 
> So they taped it up and sent it on its way, with the one bird inside._


My dad said PETA probably got a hold of them and decided free birds were better than safe birds


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## Guest

MaryOfExeter said:


> My dad said PETA probably got a hold of them and decided free birds were better than safe birds


one never does know what goes on behind the doors at the post office once the birds are out of your hands ,luckily I have yet to have any problems other then them being a day or 2 late  hope they find their way home so they can get home


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## Big T

MaryOfExeter said:


> My dad said PETA probably got a hold of them and decided free birds were better than safe birds


I'm sorry about the birds, but I like your Dad's sense of humor!!

We still have hope,
Tony


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## Guest

Big T said:


> I'm sorry about the birds, but I like your Dad's sense of humor!!
> 
> We still have hope,
> Tony


glad to see you around Big T ,hope all is well at your homestead


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## Big T

LokotaLoft said:


> glad to see you around Big T ,hope all is well at your homestead


Been doing the overtime at work, but I'm reading the posts. I'm also ordering my 2011 NPA bands nextweek for next year. Hint Hint

Tony


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## hillfamilyloft

Flapdoodle said:


> The combine results came in for the last race. I went through the champion bird report and pulled out all my/our birds. It just lists the first 200. I did have a couple in front of that SFL bird. However that SFL bird scored in the combine 5 out 6 races I sent it on. If I were going to pick the best bird in the loft, I would have to go with Warren, I mean Kathy’s bird. Then probably our Jedds banded bird. Check it out….
> 
> Final champion bird report
> 
> Club and Combine Reports


Warrens birds best races were the 270 and the 300. Just what it is bred for. That is a sound 300 family. Just what I expected from them. 15th in the combine is not shabby. I look for those top 10% races. If you can't win one be in the top 10%. I would be happy with a 15th finish in that tough of a combine.


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## g0ldenb0y55

Congrats Warren, I guess you'll be the man to beat for next year. 

Where's the video?!


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## pattersonk2002

*Next year*



g0ldenb0y55 said:


> Congrats Warren, I guess you'll be the man to beat for next year.
> 
> Where's the video?!


 You bet your Bass, next year I won't send my wife's birds and there will be a race, I hope he is ready, I am not racing against Karen again. >Kevin


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## g0ldenb0y55

pattersonk2002 said:


> You bet your Bass, next year I won't send my wife's birds and there will be a race, I hope he is ready, I am not racing against Karen again. >Kevin


Lol...How'd you place this year Kevin? I was too late to get birds in for the race this year.


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## conditionfreak

Flapdoodle had some birds of his own, do quite well in the point standings. All along the season, I had my eye on his 325 but I see his 329 was his best bird. Good birds there.

64. 329 AU 10 AUB RC C 336.0 Pts 3 race(s) Tom Brasher 

-YB10ELK2 10/16/2010 11/ 249 Brds/ 22 Lfts/323 Ave Miles/164.8 Pts

-YB10IML2 09/11/2010 30/ 422 Brds/ 27 Lfts/208 Ave Miles/ 99.2 Pts

-YB10LOV2 09/04/2010 46/ 470 Brds/ 28 Lfts/182 Ave Miles/ 72.0 Pts



80. 331 AU 10 AUB BB C 311.5 Pts 3 race(s) Tom Brasher 

-YB10BAT2 10/09/2010 7/ 220 Brds/ 22 Lfts/263 Ave Miles/152.8 Pts

-YB10IML2 09/11/2010 29/ 422 Brds/ 27 Lfts/208 Ave Miles/101.0 Pts

-YB10FER2 08/28/2010 46/ 478 Brds/ 28 Lfts/122 Ave Miles/ 57.7 Pts



85. 315 AU 10 AUB BB C 296.4 Pts 3 race(s) Tom Brasher 

-YB10WIN2 09/18/2010 18/ 342 Brds/ 22 Lfts/240 Ave Miles/125.3 Pts

-YB10IML2 09/11/2010 26/ 422 Brds/ 27 Lfts/208 Ave Miles/106.5 Pts

-YB10FER2 08/28/2010 40/ 478 Brds/ 28 Lfts/122 Ave Miles/ 64.6 Pts



97. 325 AU 10 AUB GRIZ C 281.8 Pts 3 race(s) Tom Brasher 

-YB10LOV1 09/04/2010 1/ 501 Brds/ 28 Lfts/182 Ave Miles/139.6 Pts

-YB10IML1 09/11/2010 33/ 432 Brds/ 27 Lfts/208 Ave Miles/ 95.1 Pts

-YB10FER1 08/28/2010 57/ 495 Brds/ 28 Lfts/122 Ave Miles/ 47.1 Pts



99. 241 AU 10 SFL GRIZ C 279.9 Pts 5 race(s) Tom Brasher 

-YB10BAT1 10/09/2010 15/ 226 Brds/ 23 Lfts/264 Ave Miles/121.5 Pts

-YB10IML1 09/11/2010 59/ 432 Brds/ 27 Lfts/208 Ave Miles/ 48.8 Pts

-YB10ELK1 10/16/2010 39/ 252 Brds/ 23 Lfts/322 Ave Miles/ 47.8 Pts

-YB10LOV1 09/04/2010 73/ 501 Brds/ 28 Lfts/182 Ave Miles/ 38.3 Pts

-YB10FER1 08/28/2010 78/ 495 Brds/ 28 Lfts/122 Ave Miles/ 23.6 Pts



118. 15253 AU 10 JEDD BB H 248.7 Pts 4 race(s) Tom Brasher 

-YB10FER1 08/28/2010 10/ 495 Brds/ 28 Lfts/122 Ave Miles/ 99.9 Pts

-YB10LOV1 09/04/2010 58/ 501 Brds/ 28 Lfts/182 Ave Miles/ 59.4 Pts

-YB10IML1 09/11/2010 55/ 432 Brds/ 27 Lfts/208 Ave Miles/ 55.9 Pts

-YB10WIN1 09/18/2010 58/ 361 Brds/ 23 Lfts/240 Ave Miles/ 33.5 Pts



132. 31 AU 10 AIRB BB C 221.3 Pts 2 race(s) Tom Brasher 

-YB10ELK1 10/16/2010 19/ 252 Brds/ 23 Lfts/322 Ave Miles/131.6 Pts

-YB10IML1 09/11/2010 36/ 432 Brds/ 27 Lfts/208 Ave Miles/ 89.7 Pts



135. 303 AU 10 AUB BC C 219.6 Pts 2 race(s) Tom Brasher 

-YB10IML2 09/11/2010 24/ 422 Brds/ 27 Lfts/208 Ave Miles/110.1 Pts

-YB10LOV2 09/04/2010 21/ 470 Brds/ 28 Lfts/182 Ave Miles/109.5 Pts



145. 305 AU 10 AUB BC C 206.6 Pts 2 race(s) Tom Brasher 

-YB10LOV2 09/04/2010 9/ 470 Brds/ 28 Lfts/182 Ave Miles/127.5 Pts

-YB10IML2 09/11/2010 41/ 422 Brds/ 27 Lfts/208 Ave Miles/ 79.1 Pts



197. 100 AU 10 COV BBWF H 164.4 Pts 2 race(s) Tom Brasher 

-YB10BAT1 10/09/2010 16/ 226 Brds/ 23 Lfts/264 Ave Miles/117.4 Pts

-YB10IML1 09/11/2010 60/ 432 Brds/ 27 Lfts/208 Ave Miles/ 47.0 Pts


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## g0ldenb0y55

Who does 15253 AU 10 JEDD belong too?


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## Flapdoodle

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> Who does 15253 AU 10 JEDD belong too?


That bird was sent by Xueoo. She was our champ bird going in to the last race. If I had to pick just one bird from the team to keep it would be a tuff choice. The SFL bird has the better record but is really too pretty for me. I like the Jedds banded bird, a nice well balanced blue bar. Score 4 out of 6 races in the combine, not as good as SFL but pretty close. My birds did well but I would pick the consistent bird over high points.


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## pattersonk2002

*Place*



g0ldenb0y55 said:


> Lol...How'd you place this year Kevin? I was too late to get birds in for the race this year.


 Lets just say that 18800 survived and did well enough for me to ask Tom to ship him home. Not that I like it when peoples birds get lost in a race (I am SRY) but I have to take like my bird won against theres and I seen many MIA's. You can look at so many ways and I have, for one mine could have been the target and pulled a top gun the hell out of there, with all that spinning and dodging he lost his way a few times but BUT made it home. so he wins.

I have looked at 329/ 3 races 336 points
331/3 races 311.5 points
241/5 races 280 points
Wich bird would you want in your loft? >kevin


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## g0ldenb0y55

Flapdoodle said:


> That bird was sent by Xueoo. She was our champ bird going in to the last race. If I had to pick just one bird from the team to keep it would be a tuff choice. The SFL bird has the better record but is really too pretty for me. I like the Jedds banded bird, a nice well balanced blue bar. Score 4 out of 6 races in the combine, not as good as SFL but pretty close. My birds did well but I would pick the consistent bird over high points.


I would have to say the same Tom it would be a tough choice to pick from the two. Knowing me I would take both birds, then breed them together!



pattersonk2002 said:


> Lets just say that 18800 survived and did well enough for me to ask Tom to ship him home. Not that I like it when peoples birds get lost in a race (I am SRY) but I have to take like my bird won against theres and I seen many MIA's. You can look at so many ways and I have, for one mine could have been the target and pulled a top gun the hell out of there, with all that spinning and dodging he lost his way a few times but BUT made it home. so he wins.
> 
> I have looked at 329/ 3 races 336 points
> 331/3 races 311.5 points
> 241/5 races 280 points
> Wich bird would you want in your loft? >kevin


That's a good enough reason for me specially with all the tough races they had up there with Tom. From the 3 you listed I wouldn't mine any of them but 329 would be my first choice going by the numbers. But that all goes out the window if I had the 3 birds where I can handle and look them over. Yeah I'm one of those guys who looks for that special something in birds....but that's just me.


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## hillfamilyloft

Easy choice. Breed them together.


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## george simon

Brummie said:


> You have been '79 for the last two years, "mary of Exceter" has been 16 for the last three. Therefore I will be 50 for the next five years.
> Picky, picky picky.
> One day you will translate to your grankid's. Yea, I rememember pigeon talk, Good ole day's!


*I TURNED 79 IN DEC 2009 AND ITS ONLY NOVEMBER 2010 THAT IS 11 MONTHS SO WHERE DO YOU GET 2 YEARS* GEORGE


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## Gnuretiree

*Last year at this time - How'd this year go?*

Hope this does not confuse the issue. This was posted last May by Flap.




Flapdoodle said:


> Well I survived my 2.4-mile swim, 112-mile bike, and then 26.3-mile run/jog/crawl…
> It took me just shy of 16 hours. The birds can get it done in two...
> 
> I am hanging up the bike and cancelling the pool membership. Time to focus on the birds, Warren inspired me with his videos, from here on out I will get a new video up every weekend updating everyone on the progress of the birds.
> 
> Currently there are 54 birds in the loft. We started with 55 birds, 31 from pt members, 2 from a guy in my club, and 22 that I raised. The rest of the YB’s from my breeders went to a new flyer in my club. We are shy one bird, I will have to do an inventory and figure out who is gone. At this point, I do not know which bird or what happened other then the end of last week one came up missing (hawk, wire, ?).
> 
> There are many different ways to do this. The birds are loft flying about an hour each morning. Today they flew for about 30 minutes. I weigh the feed and record how much I am feeding. I have been slowly lowering the amount of feed each day this week. It gets them to trap quickly but also shortens how long they fly. What I am looking to do is get all the birds quickly trapping at the same time. The past few mornings I get an early group that traps and a second group that flies around the loft a while. They should all be trapping together by the end of the week. Then I will up their feed and time in the air.
> 
> 
> Things on the to-do list for this coming week:
> 
> 1.	Inventory
> 2.	PMV vaccine (I had hoped to get this done sooner)
> 3.	Crate training, first toss by the end of next week.
> 
> Hope your birds are healthy, happy, and flying! Look for a video from me this weekend!



I dug this out to see how we're doing year over year. Did you improve your performance? I am sure you've got more birds to deal with.


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## Flapdoodle

Hey guys, I know this is old. If any of you original guys are on here, take a look at this:


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