# magpie pouter difficuilty in successful breeding



## Syed786110 (Dec 31, 2013)

3 months have passed my pouter are only exchanging the beak but unable to climb on the back of female for successful breeding size of cage is also big I m giving them healthy food they have not laid any egg because the male is having problem climbing on the back of female. So not successful breeding. Plz help me how can I solve this problem


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Hi Syed. Enjoy PT

Are both birds magpie pouters or of different breeds? Are you sure they're of opposite gender?
Does the male have flight feathers?( that helps a male to balance over the back of the female when mounting her)


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## Syed786110 (Dec 31, 2013)

Jass SamOplay said:


> Hi Syed. Enjoy PT
> 
> Are both birds magpie pouters or of different breeds? Are you sure they're of opposite gender?
> Does the male have flight feathers?( that helps a male to balance over the back of the female when mounting her)


Female belongs to reverse wing pouter breed and male belongs to Pomeranian breed. I m not sure about gender but reverse wing pouter looks like female because she does nt coo but little when fighting with another female. And Pomeranian pouter is confirmed male because he coos and dance around female. Also from his appearance he is male. Male have full flight feathers. They have made their pair and have also exchange beak but unable to climb on the back of female. Its also strange that this male have never used his flight feathers to climb over the back of female. He only uses his legs that are not reaching to the back of female


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

it sounds like he is young and just learning the ropes.. whats the hurry?


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## Syed786110 (Dec 31, 2013)

spirit wings said:


> it sounds like he is young and just learning the ropes.. whats the hurry?


he is fully adult. His flight is not so good like female she fly very well. Female is younger then male. But if male is young then my question is did pouters really do that in young age?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

if he is a year old and not much older then he is still young. what is the hurry?


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## Syed786110 (Dec 31, 2013)

spirit wings said:


> if he is a year old and not much older then he is still young. what is the hurry?


No hurry only I was worried I thought that if he is weak. OK thanks for that. His one eye is orange and other is bully black is it normal?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I think it is not real common but normal for him. I have seen a few with different color eyes.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Syed786110 said:


> Female belongs to reverse wing pouter breed and male belongs to Pomeranian breed. I m not sure about gender but reverse wing pouter looks like female because she does nt coo but little when fighting with another female. And Pomeranian pouter is confirmed male because he coos and dance around female. Also from his appearance he is male. Male have full flight feathers. They have made their pair and have also exchange beak but unable to climb on the back of female. Its also strange that this male have never used his flight feathers to climb over the back of female. He only uses his legs that are not reaching to the back of female


Behaviour is not a guarantee of gender. This maybe the reason the male is reluctant to mate.

Put that apart.
Before letting pouters with muffs breed, it is wise to clip their muffs and extra long toenails .Also the soft fluff feathers of the vent may be clipped away for better contact. If you don't do this then the muffs will also be discomforting when they raise squabs. Being large in size they don't need nesting bowls or large tub like nesting bowls would be needed for them to breed.


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## Syed786110 (Dec 31, 2013)

These are the pictures of pouter if u can recognize the gender by image. 

I contacted zaheer minhaas fancy pigeon breeder he also told me that it is possible that bo the could be male that is why they are not breeding succesfuly. Now I m waiting for your opinion about their gender


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Hi Sayed,
Thank you so much for sharing the pics with us. Wow,The birds are so beautiful! They look sooooo great!

Yes it looks like a hen to me. She maybe young. (Or a young cock).

Please give them a balanced diet and grit with calcium+vitaminD3 and water soluble vitamins and mineral supplements once twice a week. Deficiency of vitamins could be responsible that your male is not interested in mounting the female.

Pakistan ke bahut log ye shikayat karte hain ki unke parinde ande nahi dete. If you take care of them well insha Allah wo ande zarur dende aur bache bhi palenge.

If your pair is new to your place then it will take sometime to settle down first. When they start mating you can give them two medicines which will help the hen with laying.
1) Alfa Alfa-30
2) Five Phos-30
When they start mating add 10 drops of both medicines together in their drinking water. DON'T place the water in direct sunlight. Things will go smooth.


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## Syed786110 (Dec 31, 2013)

Jass SamOplay said:


> Hi Sayed,
> Thank you so much for sharing the pics with us. Wow,The birds are so beautiful! They look sooooo great!
> 
> Yes it looks like a hen to me. She maybe young. (Or a young cock).
> ...


Thanks brother. Yes I am giving them multivitamin and mineral syrup vidylin - M and also cac 1000 calcium and cod liver oil. Actually that blue male was really not interested in breeding. But when I give him evion vitamin e 200 mg tablet he showed some interest and exchanged the beaks but now problem is successful breeding I think his flight limb are weak because his flying is very poor. InshaAllah I will also try the medicine you have mentioned here thank u very much for the help.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I only see one nest box, at least I think that is what it is,with another bird in it... how many boxes and perches do you have? how many birds are in with the pair? so many things can factor in them feeling comfortable to mate and raise young. it sounds like you take good care of them, but their enviroment may be a factor, or lack of things in it. 

for stone/cement floor I would use a drying agent like all clay cat litter or oil dry if they have it there..something to dry up the feces on wet stone.


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## Syed786110 (Dec 31, 2013)

spirit wings said:


> I only see one nest box, at least I think that is what it is,with another bird in it... how many boxes and perches do you have? how many birds are in with the pair? so many things can factor in them feeling comfortable to mate and raise young. it sounds like you take good care of them, but their enviroment may be a factor, or lack of things in it.
> 
> for stone/cement floor I would use a drying agent like all clay cat litter or oil dry if they have it there..something to dry up the feces on wet stone.


Bro this is not nest box I use this box for feeding purpose. I have kept their nest box on upper shift where they sleep and do other activities. I have only one pair of high flying while other two are males without females. I clean this cage daily and spray some ACV. I also take care for their bath. Sunlight comes directly. This male was so lazy also. He eat and drink well. When I give him evion tablet I saw some improvement. If there is any wrong then plz guide me


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Syed786110 said:


> Bro this is not nest box I use this box for feeding purpose. I have kept their nest box on upper shift where they sleep and do other activities. I have only one pair of high flying while other two are males without females. I clean this cage daily and spray some ACV. I also take care for their bath. Sunlight comes directly. This male was so lazy also. He eat and drink well. When I give him evion tablet I saw some improvement. If there is any wrong then plz guide me


ok, there may be a hint in your information for a guess of what the male may be going through. if there are two other male birds in there there will be scuffles and territory to be won plus just trying to protect the hen. having single birds in a breeding area usually always causes problems. you may want to expand and open up your feeding station, birds may try to defend it and want to nest in it.


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## Syed786110 (Dec 31, 2013)

spirit wings said:


> ok, there may be a hint in your information for a guess of what the male may be going through. if there are two other male birds in there there will be scuffles and territory to be won plus just trying to protect the hen. having single birds in a breeding area usually always causes problems. you may want to expand and open up your feeding station, birds may try to defend it and want to nest in it.


No bro this type of situation is not in my cage. They don't fight also the other male don't like that reverse wing female. And also I have kept seperate nest box for them in each shift.
I think that it is possible that reverse wing pouter is young male that why other male don't like her or him. But misunderstanding is that he is not cooing or dancing like male. That's why I thought that it could be a female.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Syed786110 said:


> No bro this type of situation is not in my cage. They don't fight also the other male don't like that reverse wing female. And also I have kept seperate nest box for them in each shift.
> I think that it is possible that reverse wing pouter is young male that why other male don't like her or him.* But misunderstanding is that he is not cooing or dancing like male. That's why I thought that it could be a female.*


Same sex pair aren't that uncommon in domestic pigeons. Usually when it happens it happens that way. An older cock will coo,strut and dance and other young cock would assume the roles of a hen and act like a hen. And then they pair up.
If you wanna check,you can separate the pair and give a "ready" hen to the bird whose gender is in question. Or keep him/her with the other two males.

If s/he is a male he will pair up with or atleast coo on the hen. If s/he is she ,she will pair up with a male. But then you again have to break pair.

A DNA test will reveal his/her gender for sure,if you can get it done.


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## Syed786110 (Dec 31, 2013)

Jass SamOplay said:


> Same sex pair aren't that uncommon in domestic pigeons. Usually when it happens it happens that way. An older cock will coo,strut and dance and other young cock would assume the roles of a hen and act like a hen. And then they pair up.
> If you wanna check,you can separate the pair and give a "ready" hen to the bird whose gender is in question. Or keep him/her with the other two males.
> 
> If s/he is a male he will pair up with or atleast coo on the hen. If s/he is she ,she will pair up with a male. But then you again have to break pair.
> ...


Thank u bro. I have already tried that. The blue pouter is confirm male because he dance and coos around all female with which I kept him. While that yellow reverse wing pouter fight with all females and does not coos around them. And when other male coos she response them by dancing like opening her tail. Bro u said that both could be male that is why the other blue male is shy to breed. But I have seen other same sex pair breeding fully.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Syed786110 said:


> No bro this type of situation is not in my cage. They don't fight also the other male don't like that reverse wing female. And also I have kept seperate nest box for them in each shift.
> I think that it is possible that reverse wing pouter is young male that why other male don't like her or him. But misunderstanding is that he is not cooing or dancing like male. That's why I thought that it could be a female.


I see ....that does happen, I have been sold allot of hens that were cock birds.


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## Syed786110 (Dec 31, 2013)

If this climbing problem is due to vitamin deficiency then I am giving every vitamin supplements to that male. 3 months have now passed and he is still unable to climb over the back of female or (male). Today I saw they were exchanging the beak and reverse wing female (male) allows him to climb over the back. And he was trying so much. But failed. You have mentioned 3 reasons of that 
1 the male may be young ( he is now 9 months old)
2 due to vitamin deficiency 
3 reverse wing is not female( but from his appearance and behaviour she does nt look male)

Is there any other reason e.g infection or disease except these reasons. If so plz mention here. I m so worried for my male.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Syed786110 said:


> If this climbing problem is due to vitamin deficiency then I am giving every vitamin supplements to that male. 3 months have now passed and he is still unable to climb over the back of female or (male). Today I saw they were exchanging the beak and reverse wing female (male) allows him to climb over the back. And he was trying so much. But failed. You have mentioned 3 reasons of that
> 1 the male may be young ( he is now 9 months old)
> 2 due to vitamin deficiency
> 3 reverse wing is not female( but from his appearance and behaviour she does nt look male)
> ...


Try triming the muffs. Feathers on feet. This would help. Also when breeding Muffed birds It is better to trim the muffs As it helps breeding better. It helps stop from getting eggs and young from being knocked out of the nest. As they can catch a egg or small young with there muff feathers and it falls from the nest. on breeding They can step on there muff Not allowing them to top the hen. And cause them not to be able to stay on the hen. And some birds do take a time to learn to top a hen On different breeds.


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

Dear Syed you are getting very good advice from very experienced people here, if you are from Karachi and you need my help do PM me
Thanks


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## Syed786110 (Dec 31, 2013)

Pijlover said:


> Dear Syed you are getting very good advice from very experienced people here, if you are from Karachi and you need my help do PM me
> Thanks


Yes bro they answer my question quickly. I m very glad. I have trimmed their feathers. And also I have bought medicine alfalfa 30 and five phos 30. Brother some one here in Pakistan also told me to give them ginseng tablet made by qarshi. Brother this medicine really benefit or not? 

Also my male pouter is so lazy. He love sleeping very much. While he is healthy.

I m from Hyderabad.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Syed, it may sound odd to you...., but I want my hens to stop laying. Not only paired but lone isolated hens also keep laying. I can't find a way to stop them.
You know what I'm trying to say.
I'm pointing out the feedmix you give to your pigeons.


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## Syed786110 (Dec 31, 2013)

Jass SamOplay said:


> Syed, it may sound odd to you...., but I want my hens to stop laying. Not only paired but lone isolated hens also keep laying. I can't find a way to stop them.
> You know what I'm trying to say.
> I'm pointing out the feedmix you give to your pigeons.


I m giving them mix feed. My other pigeons are successful breeder. Actually I had bought this pouter first time. So I was very excite to see that how they lay eggs and how they raise the babies. But my dream does not came true. 3 month have been passed but have still not laid any egg. But I will not give up and will treat them insha Allah they will breed successfully. Your all advice are precious. I want to know about the role of ginseng tablet made by qarshi in Pakistan. Do u know about it bro?


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

Dear Syed one day your dream will come true but you have to be patient, this is a natural process and it will take time. Generally these shows breeds take longer time to start laying as compared to other racing/high flying breeds.

I have never tried or heard of Ginseng from Qarshi used on pigeons and In My Opinion please avoid it.


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## Syed786110 (Dec 31, 2013)

Pijlover said:


> Dear Syed one day your dream will come true but you have to be patient, this is a natural process and it will take time. Generally these shows breeds take longer time to start laying as compared to other racing/high flying breeds.
> 
> I have never tried or heard of Ginseng from Qarshi used on pigeons and In My Opinion please avoid it.


Thank u brother for your opinion I will avoid it.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Ginseng is a natural herb. Its effects on pigeons have not been proved so I've never used it on my birds. My brother is having 1 ginseng cap daily for more than 2 years now but no considerable results are found. Ginseng tabs are basically helpful for those whom are recovering from some illness and get fatigued easily.
I wouldnot use it on my pigeons because pigeons and humans have different bodily needs.


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

Jass SamOplay said:


> Ginseng is a natural herb. Its effects on pigeons have not been proved so I've never used it on my birds. *My brother is having 1 ginseng cap daily for more than 2 years now but no considerable results are found.* Ginseng tabs are basically helpful for those whom are recovering from some illness and get fatigued easily.
> I wouldnot use it on my pigeons because pigeons and humans have different bodily needs.


Why he used it for such a long time? and still you call it useless


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

He's was in military. There he developed problems in his disc/spine as he fell from a helicopter(hospitalised for around 1 and half year),has skin problems and BP. He had to retire from the military because he couldn't even stand upright for 2 hours in continuation. So he is having ginseng caps for 2 years to do away with the fatigue.


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

Jass SamOplay said:


> He's was in military. There he developed problems in his disc/spine as he fell from a helicopter(hospitalised for around 1 and half year),has skin problems and BP. He had to retire from the military because he couldn't even stand upright for 2 hours in continuation. So he is having ginseng caps for 2 years to do away with the fatigue.


Oh sorry to hear that, I guess he must have consulted an Orthopedic before going for the ginseng, herbal meds are similarly very common here in all sorts of treatments 

Have a good day


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## Syed786110 (Dec 31, 2013)

Someone also told me to check their pelvic bone to recognize the gender if there is no space between the; pelvic bone then you have male pouter
Today I have checked the pelvic bone of both pouters blue and yellow and result is same. There is no space between the pelvic bone of both yellow and blue.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Pijlover said:


> Oh sorry to hear that, I guess he must have consulted an Orthopedic before going for the ginseng, herbal meds are similarly very common here in all sorts of treatments
> 
> Have a good day


Thanx. Yes his doc advised him to.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Syed786110 said:


> Someone also told me to check their pelvic bone to recognize the gender if there is no space between the; pelvic bone then you have male pouter
> Today I have checked the pelvic bone of both pouters blue and yellow and result is same. There is no space between the pelvic bone of both yellow and blue.


Its not a guaranteed way to know the gender. 50-50 chances. I wish it was a reliable method
DNA test will tell for sure.


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## Syed786110 (Dec 31, 2013)

Jass SamOplay said:


> Its not a guaranteed way to know the gender. 50-50 chances. I wish it was a reliable method
> DNA test will tell for sure.


I have one question do hens have naturally wider pelvic bone. Or it gets wider when they lay eggs


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Syed786110 said:


> I have one question do hens have naturally wider pelvic bone. Or it gets wider when they lay eggs


After a hen lays then the vent gets wider more flexible where you can fit your index finger between. BUT on some families of birds both cock and hen will have a wider vent.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

With age it may get wider but I have some old hens which have tighter ones and a finger can't be inserted. Some hens have wider and some have tighter than cocks. So not a guarantee,Syed.


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## Syed786110 (Dec 31, 2013)

My yellow pouter female had made a pair with white high flying male. They started breeding. And after 5 days or one week today she has laid an egg.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-xz4_RFHRr...ACo/2EYD8sKkBAg/s1600/IMG_20140602_184533.jpg


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Thanks for the update. Well,I think it was the pouter male to blame or the setting.


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## Syed786110 (Dec 31, 2013)

Salaam/Hello

My blue Pomeranian pouter male is not taking interest in breeding. He is very beautiful and I want to get chicks from that male. Also i wants to know he is fertile or not? For this purpose I want to know that how to collect semen from fancy pigeons or how to artificially inseminate fancy pigeons.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Oops that might need specialization.

You may try vitamins on him which will help him with fertility. Vitamin A and E could help him. Maybe he's young that's why he's not been able to do the work.


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## Syed786110 (Dec 31, 2013)

Jass SamOplay said:


> Oops that might need specialization.
> 
> You may try vitamins on him which will help him with fertility. Vitamin A and E could help him. Maybe he's young that's why he's not been able to do the work.


Bro I have tried everything but I don't know what is wrong he is not very younger. I want to mention here that yellow magpie female who is much younger then male she is laying eggs without breeding. I m giving them mix feed maybe this is the reason that she is laying eggs without breeding. 

Do u have personally done artificial insemination? 
I really want to learn this techniques


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

No, sorry. I've never tried it.
Some cocks are like this. They make their hens lay very less. I had a cock who made her hen lay once or twice a year...reason-not enough sperm production.


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## Syed786110 (Dec 31, 2013)

Jass SamOplay said:


> No, sorry. I've never tried it.
> Some cocks are like this. They make their hens lay very less. I had a cock who made her hen lay once or twice a year...reason-not enough sperm production.


I have also heard about wheat germ oil will it help in sperm production.?


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## Awan's (May 17, 2021)

Jass SamOplay said:


> Hi Syed. Enjoy PT
> 
> Are both birds magpie pouters or of different breeds? Are you sure they're of opposite gender?
> Does the male have flight feathers?( that helps a male to balance over the back of the female when mounting her)


Sir need help is megpie pouter and reversewing pouter are same or different breed?


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