# Help- I found a baby pigeon!



## doodlelephants (Apr 14, 2011)

Hi,

I recently found a baby pigeon about 4 days ago, and I have no idea what to do with it! I actually found it at my workplace, and I can't really bring it home due to my parents :/

Anyway, I don't know how old it is, probably a juvenile? I wasn't sure if its mum was still taking care of it, so I didn't feed it till today. It still looks really alert, and it chirps a lot and runs from me when I approach it, so it's probably still doing quite well? I gave it a box with shredded tissue in it, but I don't know if it stays in it.

I tried to feed it water by a small plastic spoon, the kind you use to stir your coffee. I poured a little into the side of its beak and it would look like it was drinking it, but I haven't tried putting its beak in the water bowl yet as it is really really afraid of me. It will even shun away when my hand is close to it. 

I tried doing the same with some nestum and water, but I can't tell if it was getting any, or just flicking it all on the floor. Then it started to chirp really loudly, and then it opened its wings and started to 'attack' the spoon. I couldn't tell if it was attacking the spoon, or if it was just excited that there was food. It wouldn't peck at the soaked barley I tried, so I'm guessing it probably doesn't know how to yet.

Also, it's poop is kind of watery, and I'm not too sure, but I think I saw some green stuff there too. What does this mean?

Can someone help me?? Sorry for all the questions! It would really kill me if the baby pigeon ends up dead  I've attached a photo (I'm sorry it's REALLY BIG) Could someone help me give it a lookover and tell me if it's healthy?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Hi Doodlelephants, thanks for helping this little guy out and welcome to Pigeon-Talk. Looks to be about 15 days old and, give or take, and bright enough looking. Here are some links to get you started, they are not too hard to look after, once you get the information and the hang of things a bit. Your mention of Nestum says to be you may be located in the UK, so there is also a UK link, from one of our UK members (Feefo/Cynthia). Read all of the info and there will be some UK members along before too long to offer more help with local resources.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f6/rescued-feral-help-please-48513.html#post522672

http://www.pigeonrescue.co.uk/caringforababypigeon.htm

Good luck with him,

Karyn


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## doodlelephants (Apr 14, 2011)

Thanks for those links! Actually I'm from Singapore!

I forgot to mention that I'm going to the pet store near my home to get some proper food for it tonight, but I'm not sure if it has the Kaytee bird food that everyone has been talking about.

Also, seeing that the baby bird looks okay, do you think that its mum is actually still taking care of it?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

The crop does not look like it has much, if any, food in it, so she may, but it's hard to hard to tell from this one photo. This little guy is a sitting duck on the ground, best not left there. I think we have a member in Singapore that raised a few babies, perhaps they will offer some suggestions. I will try and look up their info and asked them to have a look at your thread. See what they have at the pet store, any bay bird hand raising formula will work, or we will make up something that will work, but a small bag of budgie seeds, as we can add this to the food/formula as well.

Karyn


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## doodlelephants (Apr 14, 2011)

Oh he's not on the ground floor. He's actually at the top floor of the building. Its at the corridor at the back of my research lab, and the only way to get to him is through my research lab, which is restricted. So he should be pretty safe there!

Thank you so much for your help! I was pretty worried since I found him. Now, I feel much clamer with all those photos I saw, so I have some examples to follow.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

doodlelephants said:


> Oh he's not on the ground floor. He's actually at the top floor of the building. Its at the corridor at the back of my research lab, and the only way to get to him is through my research lab, which is restricted. So he should be pretty safe there!
> 
> Thank you so much for your help! I was pretty worried since I found him. Now, I feel much clamer with all those photos I saw, so I have some examples to follow.


Best way to tell if he is being looked after, since from your description he may be safer than I thought (but any roaming cats or especially rats will get him for sure) is to watch for the parents coming to feed him and also to see what his droppings look like, if he is producing droppings with little to no solids, he is not getting any food. Can you look around for a nest, there should be one, with a sibling in it, as pigeons almost always lay two eggs.

Karyn


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## doodlelephants (Apr 14, 2011)

Hmmm I will try to see if I can convince my parents to let me bring him home. That way I can watch over him. And I'll be able to feed him more consistently.

His droppings, in fact, do look pretty watery sometimes, probably cause of the lack of food. I'll pay more attention the next time I see him. I'm gonna get the feeding equpiment, so hopefully he'll eat some stuff soon.

I tried looking for the nest, but I still can't find one. I have a feeling it's either in the air vents or a hole in a wall near the ceiling, where I can't see. I don't really think I should be climbing up there, in case I fall over the railings. Haha but I'll keep trying to find the nest! I've seen pigeons around before, so I guess the nest must be somewhere, I'm just not seeing it.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

If the droppings are watery, yes, best just to go ahead and collect him up and raise him, do see if you can get your parents on board and try and get some food going for him soon.

Karyn


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## doodlelephants (Apr 14, 2011)

Hi again,

I'm actually with the pigeon now. I couldn't get hold of proper food for the baby, but a vet at the pet store said I could try bananas? I tried the latex over the bottle method, but the little guy doesn't seem like he's eating. His crop looks pretty empty, but his poop has long brown solids. What does that mean?

He seems really afraid of me, and now I don't know if I should take him home.

Some advice please? Thank you so much.


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## doodlelephants (Apr 14, 2011)

I actually decided to bring it home. (Despite my mum's protests) I'll go out tonight to search for the proper pigeon food again.

Anyway, I was thinking if I should bring it to the vet. It's toe seems to be broken.

I've taken another photo, so could someone help me take a look? Also, I can't tell if his crop is full or empty!

I'm sorry for the constant questions, but I really don't know who else to ask, and this forum has been the biggest help so far!! Thank you!


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## doveone52 (Aug 3, 2009)

A banana! Seriously? In a pinch, you can use dog or cat kibble soaked to a mush.


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## doodlelephants (Apr 14, 2011)

I only found out I wasn't supposed to feed him a banana until I went to read more threads on the forum.

Anyway, he's currently resting in his box. I tried dabbing water at the sides of his beak, and he seemed to be drinking it, but after awhile he seemed irritated and kept flicking the water away. I'm not going to disturb him anymore tonight. He looks pretty stressed by the moving, so I'm just going to let him rest.

I can't really feed him because he's really frightened of me. Is this normal? Will he get used to me after awhile? I don't want to scare him every time I try to help him.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

doodlelephants said:


> I only found out I wasn't supposed to feed him a banana until I went to read more threads on the forum.
> 
> Anyway, he's currently resting in his box. I tried dabbing water at the sides of his beak, and he seemed to be drinking it, but after awhile he seemed irritated and kept flicking the water away. I'm not going to disturb him anymore tonight. He looks pretty stressed by the moving, so I'm just going to let him rest.
> 
> I can't really feed him because he's really frightened of me. Is this normal? Will he get used to me after awhile? I don't want to scare him every time I try to help him.


If he can not feed himself and you can't feed him how do you thing he is going to stay alive.. WHERE IS YOUR LOCATION..so we can find someone who can feed him...


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Doodlelephants, I am glad you found out that pigeons don't eat bananas, but are seed and grain eaters. First, in the photo you posted I don't like the way his legs are arranged if they are kept like this too much they will cause us some problems we don't want to deal with. Here is a link below to get him set up in a bowl to help keep his legs in a much better position. Also, the bowl should be lined with some soft cloth, to aid in grip for his feet, such a terry cloth (bath toweling). If you have a heavier ceramic bowl, this would be better than plastic, as it will be more stable for him.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=562215&postcount=10

For feeding here are two links that show essentially the same thing, a person feeding food to a pigeon by hand. In the first link below it will be piece by piece:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uU1SO0ZJoow

In this link it shows feeding a\of seed mixture to a squab a bit younger that the one you have. The seeds are presoaked, meaning you will place the mixed seeds into very warm water for 1/2 hour before feeding, this will help make it easier for him to digest the seeds and also hydrate them, as they would be if the parent was feeding him. You can use wild bird seed mix, just make sure it has not large seeds/corn/peas/peanuts/sunflower seeds in the shell. The video shows well about the right size of the seeds in the mixture could be. Also, if not wild bird seed is around, you can use a budgie seed mix, the seeds will be smaller, but will do fine, they would be soaked the same of course.

Pay attention to how full the crop is in the video, you want your little guy's crop to fill up like this (the crop id a food storage "bag" at the base of the neck area). At the end of the video the person gives the baby some water from his mouth, people around the world do this, but we don't recommend it as a human's mouth has different bacteria that best not be given to a pigeon. You little guy may be old enough to drink on his own, if you dip his beak into a small dish of tepid (slightly warm) water. If not you can dribble water to the side of his beak, but tilt his head slightly down, you have to get 5-7mL of water into him at each feeding to help digest the seeds and to keep him hydrated. If you can't get him drinking on his own keep trying wherever it is time for water for his, do this first, before dribbling. In a week or so he should be ready to start to peck and eat his own food, and by then he should be drinking on his own. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5H5duyufNk&NR=1

I will post instruction on how to wean him later, soon he will get to know you and no longer be afraid when he realizes seeing you means food , here is a link with a few more words on getting them to drink:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=522565&postcount=11

Good luck with him and if you have any questions, just ask.

Karyn


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## doodlelephants (Apr 14, 2011)

He ate a little just now! I fed him through a bottle. He got really excited and kept squeaking really loudly at a high pitch, but I read one other post and found out that it's normal, which is a relief. It seemed as though most of the food in the bottle is gone. I don't know if he was actually eating, or if it just went down his throat when he opened his mouth. But I'm just glad he's got something inside of him now.

Bringing him to the vet tomorrow! Hopefully he's fine, and hopefully I can ask the vet more questions about him. I named the pigeon pi, as in pee, not pie. Really starting to get attached to the fella.

Thank you so much for the help guys!!!


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

doodlelephants said:


> He ate a little just now! I fed him through a bottle. He got really excited and kept squeaking really loudly at a high pitch, but I read one other post and found out that it's normal, which is a relief. It seemed as though most of the food in the bottle is gone. I don't know if he was actually eating, or if it just went down his throat when he opened his mouth. But I'm just glad he's got something inside of him now.
> 
> Bringing him to the vet tomorrow! Hopefully he's fine, and hopefully I can ask the vet more questions about him. I named the pigeon pi, as in pee, not pie. Really starting to get attached to the fella.
> 
> Thank you so much for the help guys!!!


Glad you got some food into him. Have a look at the photos in this link of the baby pigeons, see how their crop (food storage area at the base of neck, top of chest) is kind of bulging, and in the second Youtube link showing hand-feeding soaked seeds, you can also see this area start to fill as it is being feed. You want to get about 20-30mL of food into this guy at each feeding, wait until the crop empties and then feed again, this could be 3-4 times a day.

At this age they eat a surprising amount of food, for something you think is just a little thing, so do not be frightened to get a good amount into him through the day, make sure he is getting a fair amount of water as well.

Karyn


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## Luffy (Feb 27, 2011)

Pi is cute . Would love some more photos.



> I don't know if he was actually eating, or if it just went down his throat when he opened his mouth.


By eating if you mean chewing, than no pigeons dont chew their food. They swallow grains and store it in their crop, the baggy thing at its breast. Grains are then crushed in their digestive system with help of grit.


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## doodlelephants (Apr 14, 2011)

Pi's doing great!! Haha he ate loads today, finally got used to me and the bottle. Managed to get him to drink some water too! He's currently in a cage, cause I can't let him roam around in the house. I take let him out when I change the newspaper though, and he likes it when I lift him up and down in my hands. He flaps his wings as if he's flying when I go down. 

I have a question though. I'm not sure if I'm feeding him too much. I fed him about 50ml of nestum mixed with water at about 9 in the morning. Then I fed him about 30ml of bird seeds that have been soaked in water for half an hour before at about 3pm. Then I've just fed him another 30ml of the seeds at about 9pm. Am I over-feeding him? Or is it different for every pigeon, and I have to judge based on his crop?

Thanks again!


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

doodlelephants said:


> I fed him about 50ml of nestum mixed with water at about 9 in the morning. Then I fed him about 30ml of bird seeds that have been soaked in water for half an hour before at about 3pm. Then I've just fed him another 30ml of the seeds at about 9pm. Am I over-feeding him? Or is it different for every pigeon, and I have to judge based on his crop?
> 
> Thanks again!


Doodlelephants, are you reading my posts?..., in my last post I told you clearly about how much to feed at each feeding, 50mL of Nestum is too much food, then later 30mL of soaked seeds, again too much if you have not allowed the Nestum to empty and this would be the max for soaked seeds. There are two main problems with feeding too much, the first is some food can come back up and go down their wind pipe, causing aspiration, this can immediately kill them, or bring on an infection that will. 

The second is too much food can stretch their crop causing them a bunch of problems we do not want to deal with. Please 20-30mL of food at a time, and wait until the crop is flat before feeding again. Glad to hear you are getting the hang of things and he is feeding well, but be careful.

Karyn


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## doodlelephants (Apr 14, 2011)

Wow, I had a feeling I was over feeding but I didn't realise I was over-feeding that badly. I'll be more careful! Thanks for that reminder.


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## doodlelephants (Apr 14, 2011)

Okay I'm in a dilemma now.

Yesterday when I was at work, I actually saw another baby pigeon and an older pigeon who I assume is the mum. So now I don't know if I should return Pi to where I found him. The other baby pigeon is still there today, so I'm quite sure they parents will be around. I really want to put Pi back with the other chick, then he'll be able to grow up naturally with the other pigeons. But my concern is if he'll be able to adapt back to the parent pigeons, and if they'll continue to feed him, seeing that he's been gone for quite a few days.

Should I bring him back and see what happens? Or should I just continue taking care of him? I need some expert advice! Thanks!


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Well, there is no harm in trying, but a few cautions, because it has been 4-5 days that Pi has not been in the nest, you have to make 100% sure that he is welcomed back and recognized for who he is, part of the family. You should be able to tell pretty quickly if he is welcomed back, or pushed away. If he is no longer welcome, then you will have to finish raising him, make sure you watch and stay within eye sight of him, for a while, to make sure he is safe with his parents and then still check back a few times during the day, if you feel he was welcomed back, to make sure all is well.

Karyn


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## doodlelephants (Apr 14, 2011)

Oh okay. But from your experience, are such 'reunions' usually successful?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Doodlelephants, I have taken ill squabs from the nest and put them back after a few days of inside care with no problems. Although you are pretty certain you think the young one you have belongs with the others you describe, I think this may be so as well, you are not 100% certain. So you want to carefully watch over this little one for a while at the immediate re-introduction, then for the next days as well, to make sure things remain this way.

Karyn


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## minibik (Apr 20, 2011)

*orphns*

my 5yr old daughter got all the attenction at the check-out stand as a chick hatched in her hand. she had been keeping it warm all morning cause it was ignored in the coup. It hatched sucsessfuly and we (I) put it in a foster nest. Its name is Sam I Am He is a handsome Bird.


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## doodlelephants (Apr 14, 2011)

Okay, I will try to re-introduce him back into the family. Hopefully he will be accepted into the family!!

Haha minibik, both your daughter and the pigeon sound adorable. Thanks for the success story! Gives me a little more confidence about putting Pi back!


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## doodlelephants (Apr 14, 2011)

I've put Pi back, and it seems the whole family is here. There's 2 adult pigeons, and one more baby pigeon. But this baby pigeon looks older than Pi, in that it is a bit bigger, and it has more feathers. Does this mean this is not his sibling?

Also, is it normal for the adult pigeon to not feed the chick when it is calling for food? Both the adult pigeons will try to turn away when Pi goes to their beak and asks to be fed.


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## Mitzi (Apr 12, 2011)

Oh jeez, how sad. My guess is it's "normal" given the fact they probably don't recognize him as their own. But it wouldn't be acceptable (in my mind). Are you positive it's even his family? I don't know what anyone else would do, but I'd take him back and hand raise him.


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## doodlelephants (Apr 14, 2011)

It's so difficult to see Pi trying so hard. He keeps calling and calling.  No, I can't be sure that it's his family, but it's the only other family here, and the most likely family he would have come from. Though the difference between him and the other chick is making me doubtful.


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## Mitzi (Apr 12, 2011)

What's your gut instinct telling you to do? Follow your instincts and you'll get through life with a lot fewer regrets.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

doodlelephants said:


> It's so difficult to see Pi trying so hard. He keeps calling and calling.  No, I can't be sure that it's his family, but it's the only other family here, and the most likely family he would have come from. Though the difference between him and the other chick is making me doubtful.


Doodlelephants, it is not that unusual for a sibling to be bigger, but if they parents are rejecting Pi's requests to be feed, you will have to finish raising this little one.

Karyn


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## doodlelephants (Apr 14, 2011)

That's pretty good advice there mitzi, I guess I'll follow my gut feeling and bring it home. I'll just check on it one more time later, and if nothing's improved, I'll bring it back home. Thanks karyn, you never fail to teach me new stuff about these pigeons.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

doodlelephants said:


> That's pretty good advice there mitzi, I guess I'll follow my gut feeling and bring it home. I'll just check on it one more time later, and if nothing's improved, I'll bring it back home. Thanks karyn, you never fail to teach me new stuff about these pigeons.


Please keep a very close eye on Pi, as there is a chance the adults could harm this little guy, if they reject him.

Karyn


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## doodlelephants (Apr 14, 2011)

Yea, that's what I was afraid of.


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## Mitzi (Apr 12, 2011)

Is he home?


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## doodlelephants (Apr 14, 2011)

Yep he is! Haha I realised he learned some new stuff. He knows how to groom his own feathers now, he never did that before. And he seems to have picked up some idea about flying. I still would have preferred to know for sure if his parents accepted him or not though.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

doodlelephants said:


> Yep he is! Haha I realised he learned some new stuff. He knows how to groom his own feathers now, he never did that before. And he seems to have picked up some idea about flying. I still would have preferred to know for sure if his parents accepted him or not though.


The best ways are if, right away, or after a short period of time they feed the little guy, and if you were not watching the whole time, you found food in his crop, and also, that they did not drive him from the nest or peck at him. Glad to hear he is safe, although there is so much their parents teach them about how to live and be safe in the wild I was really hoping that this was possible.

Karyn


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## doodlelephants (Apr 14, 2011)

Dobato said:


> The best ways are if, right away, or after a short period of time they feed the little guy, and if you were not watching the whole time, you found food in his crop, and also, that they did not drive him from the nest or peck at him. Glad to hear he is safe, although there is so much their parents teach them about how to live and be safe in the wild I was really hoping that this was possible.
> 
> Karyn


I did check if there was food in his crop before I brought him home, but it was empty still so I assumed they didn't feed him. Do you think I should try putting him back again next week? I really wanted him to grow up with other pigeons too. :/ Especially since I intend to release him after he grows up and learns how to fly and take care of himself. I still don't know where their nest is! They just hang around that corridor, and the other chick hides under the metal cupboard. Is that abnormal?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Doodlelephants, it may be getting a little late to be trying for a nest solution for this little guy, but what I would like you to do is everyday let him is spend as much time in the corridor with the other birds, and especially with the bird thought to be the sibling, this time together will need to be supervised by you from a distance. Please put down seed for all to eat together (and water to drink) and let him learn to be in their company and how to peck and hunt for food. Doing this will also give you opportunity to watch how they interact, as there still is a good possibility Pi is part of this family. You probably right now have a week (give or take a few days, as he is about 23 days old) to do this without much fear of losing him. 

What I mean by this is at about the 4-5 week point he should be developed enough to start to fly, at first his flying will not be so great, but when he does start, it just may be good enough for him to get up to a place you can not reach him, and he will not be yet ready to survive on his own out there and this will be bad. As he develops, test him inside everyday to see how well his flying is going, so you know when you will no longer be able to just put him down with the others, without worry.

Karyn


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## doodlelephants (Apr 14, 2011)

Hi Karyn, I did what you suggested. I've left him in the corridor for 3 days, and there doesn't seem to be much improvement. At the start when I put him down, he ran to the other chick and settled down beside it. They were sitting together when I checked back awhile later, so I thought things were fine.

The next day I went back, I couldn't find Pi. After searching for awhile, I found him - one floor down. I still don't know how he got there, any ideas? It could be that he simply just fell, or that the other pigeons pushed him down to get rid of him. Nonetheless, I wanted to be sure, so I brought him back up to the 5th floor, where he ran to sit beside the other chick again.

Today I checked on him, and he is still on the 5th floor. But this time, he's sitting on the ledge, a distance away from the other chick. All the times I've checked his crop was empty. I've just managed to get him to drink some water, which filled his crop by just a little. But I am unsure if he is being fed. If his parents feed him, his crop would be filled right? Not full, but I should be able to feel something in there rght? All I feel is his body! I'm thinking about taking him home for good this time.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

doodlelephants said:


> Hi Karyn, I did what you suggested. I've left him in the corridor for 3 days, and there doesn't seem to be much improvement. At the start when I put him down, he ran to the other chick and settled down beside it. They were sitting together when I checked back awhile later, so I thought things were fine.
> 
> The next day I went back, I couldn't find Pi. After searching for awhile, I found him - one floor down. I still don't know how he got there, any ideas? It could be that he simply just fell, or that the other pigeons pushed him down to get rid of him. Nonetheless, I wanted to be sure, so I brought him back up to the 5th floor, where he ran to sit beside the other chick again.
> 
> Today I checked on him, and he is still on the 5th floor. But this time, he's sitting on the ledge, a distance away from the other chick. All the times I've checked his crop was empty. I've just managed to get him to drink some water, which filled his crop by just a little. But I am unsure if he is being fed. If his parents feed him, his crop would be filled right? Not full, but I should be able to feel something in there rght? All I feel is his body! I'm thinking about taking him home for good this time.


Doodlelephants, again, I am not sure if you are reading my posts or if I am not being clear enough. I did not tell you to leave him in the corridor, I asked you to *supervise the visits from a distance*, not just put him with the other birds and leave him. Why you did what you did, I am not sure, he was supposed to spend some supervised time each day with them, overseen by you to see how they interact, nowhere did I tell you to now just leave him.

Please do not leave this little one anymore alone like this, he is to be *supervised*, not left, and kept and fed by you. I would be lying to say I am not upset by you doing this.

Karyn


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## doodlelephants (Apr 14, 2011)

Oh I thought you meant that if he could fit in then I'll be able to put him back! So sorry about that.


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## doodlelephants (Apr 14, 2011)

OMG I just saw Pi fall off the ledge. I'M GOING TO FIND HIM NOW.


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## doodlelephants (Apr 14, 2011)

I found him. That was very scary. I am not putting him back anymore. I'm bringing him home.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Doodlelephants, in truth, I was, and am, probably more upset with myself, than with you. Although I am not sure how the instructions I gave you for having Pi interact with his possible family could be construed as me telling you to leave him for three days unattended in the corridor, I should have been forewarned, after you did your own thing with feeding earlier, where you feed him 50mL, instead of the 25-30mL I instructed you to, this should have served as notice. Therefore, my instructions should have been very precise with me using clear do and don't statements, such as me saying do not leave him unattended, instead of me saying to supervise him, so there would be little room for you to adlib things.

The reason for him spending time with the other birds is so he imprints on them and is at least a little familiar with the social interaction among pigeons, and feeding/pecking with among them, that will be a large benefit to him, since your intention is to raise and release him.

I am glad, from what I gather, he is now safe with you. Please don't place him with the other birds again unless you are sure he can not fly yet, to get away from you, you will test this inside your place, by gently tossing him onto a couch or bed, from a bit of a distance, to gage how well he is flying, please feed him 2-3 times a day and here is how to start to wean him to self-feeding on his own. You must be present for any time spent with the other birds, brining him home after visiting. You must test his flying each day, if he is getting any height or distance with his flying, you can not allow him free access any longer to a place where he could fly away, he is not ready yet, keep him inside until he is ready to be released, do not allow him in the corridor. 

These links describe how to get them nuzzling and eating seeds, also when you spread some seeds around for Pi, you can make like you are hunting and pecking with him by crooking your forefinger and tapping at the seeds along with him. Also, start to keep a dish of seeds in his cage/box (no corn/whole sunflower seeds, along with a small water dish,) as well as spreading some out in his cage for the to peck at. Some catch on pretty quick, with others it may take a bit of time, so be patient with him. Once he is eating seeds, continue to supplement with formula, until a few weeks older.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=522565&postcount=11 (information on how to get him to start to self water)
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=523350&postcount=16 feeding seeds
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=508006&postcount=3 feeding seeds
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=507810&postcount=2 feeding seeds

If you are ever unsure, or not 100% clear on anything, please ask for more help or clarification.

Good luck with him,

Karyn


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## doodlelephants (Apr 14, 2011)

Karyn, it really wasn't your fault. I should have checked if what I was going to do was right, before I did things according to my assumptions. I know better now!

I've been feeding him bird seeds that were pre-soaked in water, but I've been thinking if I should mix it with nestum and water too? Or are bird seeds fine? I do leave water and seeds with him, and I have seen him eating and drinking on his own, so I guess that is good. I've seen him peck a few times before too, so maybe I just need to keep making him practice more.

On a side note, I would like to ask if Pi could actually get traumatized or scared from dropping off the ledge? I mean, he did drop down 5 floors, and although he seems physically fine, he was pretty quiet ytd, and didn't eat much. He's fine today, but he still seems a little off, as compared to the past. Is there something I should do? Or should I let him get back to normal in his own time?

Thanks karyn, you've been a great help, I can't thank you enough!


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Yes, you can feed him a combination of the soaked seeds, Nestum and water, to make a slurry to feed. The thing is, even though you have started to see him eat a bit, until they really doing well at it, that is, eating enough to totally self-maintain, you have to continue to support them with feeding, as this is what would happen if Pi was still with his parents, they would be showing him how to eat on his own, but at the same time continuing to feed him. Keep working on the finger pecking at loose seeds spread out with him, as I myself find this is the best way to get them leaning how to pick up, and swallow seeds/food.

No, he would not have suffered any real emotional trauma from his fall, thankfully, Pi was old enough that he would have fluttered down from that hight and did not just fall. This is not an uncommon occurrence to happen with these guys, as they start testing their wings and learning to fly, that is, to end up falling from the nest by accident, and fluttering down to the ground, where unfortunately they become prey to a number of predators.

I had another look at Pi's photo and I would guess his age, as of today, would 30 days, give or take a day. They all develop a little differently, but at this age, 30-35 days, is the time they go from not flying to flying. So, to be safe, it may be best not to allow him in the corridor anymore at this point. How was he doing interacting with the others?

Glad to be able to help you, continued luck with little Pi,

Karyn


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## doodlelephants (Apr 14, 2011)

OH okay that's good. He's much noisier now whenever he sees anyone, haha so I'm guessing he's much better.

One more question, when he drinks, do I let him drink until he stops by himself, or do I stop him? Sometimes he drinks a lot at one go, and I tend to stop him for awhile before I let him drink a little again. But sometimes it would seem he isn't thirsty, and he'll just take a sip. So should I let him determine how much he wants to drink himself, or should I also control that?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

doodlelephants said:


> OH okay that's good. He's much noisier now whenever he sees anyone, haha so I'm guessing he's much better.
> 
> One more question, when he drinks, do I let him drink until he stops by himself, or do I stop him? Sometimes he drinks a lot at one go, and I tend to stop him for awhile before I let him drink a little again. But sometimes it would seem he isn't thirsty, and he'll just take a sip. So should I let him determine how much he wants to drink himself, or should I also control that?


They know how much water they want to drink, although occasionally squabs (very young pigeons) can over drink, as they can get excited when leaning to self water, and they sometimes can do the same thing with feeding, overeat, and stuff themselves too full of seeds. If you like you can post up a photo of his fresh droppings for us to have a look at, but if he is active and acting well, I would not be too concerned about this right now .

Karyn


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## doodlelephants (Apr 14, 2011)

Here's a picture, fresh from this morning. Is it in lumps because I just fed his some seeds? And is it that watery because of the amount of water he drinks?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

That dropping does not have very much solids in it, meaning, you are going to have to work a little hard at getting a good deal more food into him and there is the possibility he could be drinking more, as a way to feel like he is filling his crop. Go back to my post #14 and see if you can get a good deal more of the soaked seeds into him, he should be able to take a few tablespoons each feeding of these. I would like you to post another photo, later, of his droppings once you are sure he has had few good meals for the day, to get a better read on them. Continue to work on the self-feeding, but you must make sure you feed him well each day. Is it possible for you to weigh him and post up his weight in grams?

Karyn


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## doodlelephants (Apr 14, 2011)

Got that! But sometimes his droppings have lots of solids, from what I saw when I changed his paper this morning.

His weight is about 124grams, is that good? Also, here's a picture of what Pi looks like now!


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## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

i usually raise my babies on other stuff other than seeds.. seeds i offer around weaning time.
best if u go to any local pharmacy and ask for big surringe either 10 ml or bigger.
what i would do just so he gains some weight id buy cerials .. non sweetened cerials..
soak them in water a bit and force feed him on the surringe he is still young to feed himself in the right amounts that he need..
he's curious and im sure he pecks on the seeds but he can never get the right amount to fullfill his stomach.
u can cook rice well.. also fits the surringe when cooked well..
i sometimes cook eggs... i mix egg whites and rice together..
wheat cerials.... mixed with some human baby food.. like corn , pees.. etc.
i would force feed him for sure for another 3 weeks judgin by his age..
he needs to eat at least 35 ml of nice deacent formula that i just mentioned in order to gain weight at least 3 times a day ... its not hard to force feed a baby pigeon ..
in that picture it looks as his crop is empty..


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## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

Good job tho.. he's a pretty baby


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

I need you to double check that weight and be very sure of the accuracy of the scale you are using, as if 124 grams is correct, little Pi weight less than half of what he should, at 4 weeks old, allowing for differences in the weight of ferals at different geographical areas, I would say he should weight 275-325 grams, so he would be extremely underweight. Also, I am glad you posted the photo, as you can not leave soaked seeds for him in his cage/box, they will ferment and if he eats these we could be in for big trouble. As mentioned you need to really focus on getting a decent amount of food each day into Pi, again go to post #14 and you could use a combination of the two video clips I posted, opening Pi's mouth gently and "popping" pinches of soaked seeds in. I also think it would be a good idea to mix in the Nestum you mention, as it if a fortified cereal and will help provide a bunch of vitamins and minerals he really needs right now.

Karyn


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## doodlelephants (Apr 14, 2011)

Okay I'll weigh him again later before I feed him again. If he is really 124g and is underweight, what should I do then? I do change the seeds frequently, but I guess it's better to be safe than sorry!


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

doodlelephants said:


> Okay I'll weigh him again later before I feed him again. If he is really 124g and is underweight, what should I do then? I do change the seeds frequently, but I guess it's better to be safe than sorry!


Just from Pi's photo, he does look underdeveloped for his age, so you are going to need to make a real effort at getting him continuously well fed throughout each day. Also, until Pi's weight is around 300g (or preferably nicely above) he should not be released, so you will need to use weight as a big factor, not only age, when it comes time to think about plans to integrate him back to the wild.

Karyn


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## doodlelephants (Apr 14, 2011)

I weighed him again, and he really is in the 122-124g range. Furthermore, I had just fed him. Do you think it may be because he is smaller that he got kicked out of the nest? Do pigeons do that?

Anyway, I'll try to feed him more and more frequently. Just to double-check, I can only feed him a maximum of 30ml of food per day, regardless of the number of times I feed him? Meaning to say if I feed him 5 times a day, I can only feed him 6ml of food each time? I've been feeding him a maximum of 30ml per day, but sometimes it seems very little, and hardly enough to really fill much of his crop. But the point is not to fill his crop fully at once, but to keep it partially filled throughout the day right?

He's learning well on pecking at seeds though! So that's some improvement there.  And he can kind of fly. He can't take off from the ground yet, but he can flutter down from some height. And he's learning to climb over stuff, so I'll have to keep a closer watch on him.


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## doodlelephants (Apr 14, 2011)

Oh btw, thanks for the suggestions goga82! Even though he's smaller than he's suppose to be, I still think he looks cute


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

doodlelephants said:


> Anyway, I'll try to feed him more and more frequently. Just to double-check, I can only feed him a maximum of 30ml of food per day, regardless of the number of times I feed him? Meaning to say if I feed him 5 times a day, I can only feed him 6ml of food each time? I've been feeding him a maximum of 30ml per day, but sometimes it seems very little, and hardly enough to really fill much of his crop. But the point is not to fill his crop fully at once, but to keep it partially filled throughout the day right?





> Glad you got some food into him. Have a look at the photos in this link of the baby pigeons, see how their crop (food storage area at the base of neck, top of chest) is kind of bulging, and in the second Youtube link showing hand-feeding soaked seeds, you can also see this area start to fill as it is being feed. You want to get about 20-30mL of food into this guy at each feeding, wait until the crop empties and then feed again, this could be 3-4 times a day.


The quote above is from an earlier post to you and I have mentioned amounts a few times, the above was for when you were feeding him before. For the soaked seeds it will be more or less the same as I mentined before, but a bit less as seeds will take a little longer to process, as you were also feeding formula before. To be very clear, you will feed Pi 15-20mL of food (1 to 1 1/4 tablespoons) of soaked seeds, about 3 times a day (because he is smaller and underweight, we don't want to give him too much food, so we are reducing the amounts a bit right now) so for example 9am, 6pm, 9pm, so in total, for the whole day, he should be consuming 45-60mL of food. You want to to as I mentioned before, nicely fill the crop (not too full!), let it empty and fill it again, once you are doing this Pi's crop will tell you how often you need to be feeding him (it could be more often than 3 times a day), and always have water for him to drink avaiable at all times in his cage/box.

The parents will sometimes reject ill babies from the nest, but I have never been under the impression Pi has been ill, in his first photos he looks in good condition, but because he has not been getting proper nutrition he looks less so now, we need to work on fixing this, so mix the Nestum in with the soaked seeds as well. Glad to hear he is getting the hang of eating, but you need to hand feed him every day for the next few weeks.

Part of why you may not have lost him is what makes up body a good deal of their body weight is muscle mass, at 124g Pi has very little, in fact at this weight, I am glad he is walking and making flying attempts, this really is a terrible weight for him to be at, at 32 days old, please work hard at getting him fattened up.

Karyn


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## doodlelephants (Apr 14, 2011)

Hey guys! I'm sorry for the lack of updates recently. Got some good news to share. I managed to get some Kaytee exact! So now I feed him that and seeds in a random order. He's learning to peck too. I haven't been able to weigh him yet, but I can see him getting larger, so I guess that's some improvement.

He's also starting to learn how to fly! At the moment, he can only jump off my hand and glide down to the ground while flapping. But soon he'll be able to fly up from the ground. Sometimes he flaps his wings in the cage very vigorously, and I feel sorry cause he can't get much exercise. I tend to let him out for longer periods of time when I feed him so he can walk and flap his wings. The only downside is he tends to poo without warning, and I have to clean it. Haha I can't leave the poo out on the floor.

I'll post a picture of him and his poo tonight!


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

doodlelephants said:


> Hey guys! I'm sorry for the lack of updates recently. Got some good news to share. I managed to get some Kaytee exact! So now I feed him that and seeds in a random order. He's learning to peck too. I haven't been able to weigh him yet, but I can see him getting larger, so I guess that's some improvement.
> 
> He's also starting to learn how to fly! At the moment, he can only jump off my hand and glide down to the ground while flapping. But soon he'll be able to fly up from the ground. Sometimes he flaps his wings in the cage very vigorously, and I feel sorry cause he can't get much exercise. I tend to let him out for longer periods of time when I feed him so he can walk and flap his wings. The only downside is he tends to poo without warning, and I have to clean it. Haha I can't leave the poo out on the floor.
> 
> I'll post a picture of him and his poo tonight!


Nice to hear Pi is still hanging in there, and you found some Kaytee. You really need to weight him, at least 2-3 times a week, monitor his weight and to see the direction he is going in weight. I know you are doing the best you can, but I want you to know getting the weight on them takes a real effort, fluttering down will be good for building muscle tone, but he will need lots of food to add muscle and mass, so keep diligently at it. Will wait for new photos.

I posted this for you very early in your thread, but here it is again for you to review.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=522672&postcount=2

Karyn


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## doodlelephants (Apr 14, 2011)

Hey, here are the photos I promised!

I have a question. Pi doesn't seem to be gulping down water anymore, like he did before. What are the possible reasons for that, and is there anything that I should be doing?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

doodlelephants said:


> Pi doesn't seem to be gulping down water anymore, like he did before. What are the possible reasons for that, and is there anything that I should be doing?


Thanks for the photos, it would be really good to get a current weight on Pi. Also, can you give us an idea of how much food you are managing to feed Pi each day, what you are feeding and which method(s). Could be drinking less water as a result of not having to fill his crop with water to feel like his is getting fed, as long as you are making water available to him at all times, and he is drinking on his own, I would not worry too much. Keep a dish of seeds as well next to the water for him to peck at and spend some time with him pecking at seeds with your finger to encourage him to self feed (but you must contiune to feed him each day 3-4 times by hand).

Karyn


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## Tacofluff (May 25, 2021)

doodlelephants said:


> Hi,
> 
> I recently found a baby pigeon about 4 days ago, and I have no idea what to do with it! I actually found it at my workplace, and I can't really bring it home due to my parents :/
> 
> ...


I found one just yesterday I think the poop is okay. I think it is healthy try taking it to the vet if you win its trust. Good luck!


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