# Way to stop Hawks



## Margarret

I just came across this. I haven't read all the hawk posts so this may have already been posted, but if not, might be of interest to some of you. This fancier has found a way to discourage hawks from going after his rollers. I would think it could work with racers as well.

http://circuslofts.com/

Margaret


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## Margarret

I need to tell you the rest. Go to Catalonian Tumblers. Go to the bottom of the page and see Catalonian Tumblers save pigeons from hawks.

Margaret


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## Grim

That is really interesting and I think everyone could benefit from such birds. I wish there was more info such as why these birds would be harder for a hawk to capture and how to properly train them.


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## SmithFamilyLoft

Margarret said:


> I just came across this. I haven't read all the hawk posts so this may have already been posted, but if not, might be of interest to some of you. This fancier has found a way to discourage hawks from going after his rollers. I would think it could work with racers as well.
> 
> http://circuslofts.com/
> 
> Margaret



It is an interesting link, but I just don't believe the premise being made.


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## Grim

If you look a little further the performing oriental rollers are quite hawk safe supposedly and better suited. I guess you would have to try it to believe it.


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## Birdman79

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> It is an interesting link, but I just don't believe the premise being made.


That's what i was thinking too,i guess like what grim said,you'd have to see for yourself.


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## becege

Oriental Rollers are not hawk proof. Birds that are landing are very susceptible to hawks. I have watched coopers hawks take them as they land not more than 50 feet from me. A coopers will chase a bird and drive it to the ground. I saved a bird in the clutches of a hawk on the ground this spring. This bird was a veteran flyer of two years and on one other occasion I saw this oriental dive like a donek into pine trees to avoid a coopers. I believe that any hawk that is insistent can catch an oriental roller or any other breed of pigeon.


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## SmithFamilyLoft

Grim said:


> If you look a little further the performing oriental rollers are quite hawk safe supposedly and better suited. I guess you would have to try it to believe it.



I have caught a bit of grief in other threads, with other posts I made, for suggesting that perhaps my family of racers are better able to avoid hawk attacks, because of a genetic disposition, being kept lean and in good condition, etc. *after *they reach a certain level of maturity. 

I certainly believe that a fantail pigeon is going to be much more easy to catch then other breeds. And I am sure that in the link provided, compaired to certain other performance breeds, the guy may have a performance breed which is caught less then some of his other breeds. 

I guess what I doubted, if I read the lines correctly, that securing some of those birds would somehow make my birds more secure. But, I have lost far more birds to other causes, then to say a Red Tail hawk, (that I know of) that it just does not seem worth the effort for me to examine the validity of the claim. 

I have had several Coopers Hawks in my back yard at the same time, while way up in the sky, flying with my highfliers, my YB's were quite secure. Every so often (none in 2008 that I know of) one will get caught, and I don't like it, but there is nothing I can do, or talk about on this site. I suggest that any device, product, trick, etc. and there are hundreds of posts on this site, is as far as I am concerned, a waste of time and effort. 

If you think buying a particular breed, or a product, that someone has for sale, will solve your problem, then do what you think is best. Personally, on some level the hawks actually do me a favor, they insure that my birds get a lot of quality loft flying which can run many hours, and they insure very fast trapping. During the race season, they don't bother me at all, in fact they may be helping me. Many times they are young immature hawks, and they really have little chance catching any of my birds late in the season. Now in late winter, or early spring, when I am trying to settle YB's, that is a whole different storey. But, my birds are desended from a long line of survivors, and sometimes my pedigrees indicate so with names like Mister Cooper, Blue Falcon etc. May have been sheer accident, but those birds outsmarted and out flew birds of prey, and went on to be good racers, and I'm never quite sure that is not somehow related. So even if I could snap my fingers and eliminate all hawks from the area, I'm not sure that would help me breed and train the best racers. Anyway, that's how I deal with the "problem" in my mind.


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## RodSD

I think the word "stop" is a wrong word. I think it is more in the line of "delaying", "discouraging" these BOP. Using those oriental rollers or Doneks is just trying to improve the odds of your birds not getting hit. But they will still get hit. Hawks do it ambush style during your birds take off and landing. You may discourage BOP by being present when your birds are out. You can lock them down to "delay" getting hit.


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## santhosh_pigeons

some of my tumblers are outflying and dodging hawks for 4 years now ...... i cant say the same for all my tumblers ...... i have 5 tumblers which have survived the hawks countless times...... abt the cat tumblers i cant say anything ........my tumblers originated in the middle east, they are high flyers.....


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## BCBrian

The better the roller - or the kit of rollers - the more prone it is to suffer at the hands of raptors.

Rolling well, takes a lot of energy - tired birds are easy pickings.

There is supposed to be a product that you coat a pigeon with that'll make it taste so horrible - the hawks after an attack or two, will abandon your flock.

That's probably more politically correct than covering them with poison.


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## jboy1

*Way to stop hawks*

I have pigeons since age 10 any breed of pigeon will and can be caught by a cooper hawk but were the loft is located is he main key no trees close by as coopers are very good at using trees to ambush, so the best bet is to keep your loft in the open were they can see hawks coming. Hope this helps.


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## spirit wings

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> I have caught a bit of grief in other threads, with other posts I made, for suggesting that perhaps my family of racers are better able to avoid hawk attacks, because of a genetic disposition, being kept lean and in good condition, etc. *after *they reach a certain level of maturity.
> 
> I certainly believe that a fantail pigeon is going to be much more easy to catch then other breeds. And I am sure that in the link provided, compaired to certain other performance breeds, the guy may have a performance breed which is caught less then some of his other breeds.
> 
> I guess what I doubted, if I read the lines correctly, that securing some of those birds would somehow make my birds more secure. But, I have lost far more birds to other causes, then to say a Red Tail hawk, (that I know of) that it just does not seem worth the effort for me to examine the validity of the claim.
> 
> I have had several Coopers Hawks in my back yard at the same time, while way up in the sky, flying with my highfliers, my YB's were quite secure. Every so often (none in 2008 that I know of) one will get caught, and I don't like it, but there is nothing I can do, or talk about on this site. I suggest that any device, product, trick, etc. and there are hundreds of posts on this site, is as far as I am concerned, a waste of time and effort.
> 
> If you think buying a particular breed, or a product, that someone has for sale, will solve your problem, then do what you think is best. Personally, on some level the hawks actually do me a favor, they insure that my birds get a lot of quality loft flying which can run many hours, and they insure very fast trapping. During the race season, they don't bother me at all, in fact they may be helping me. Many times they are young immature hawks, and they really have little chance catching any of my birds late in the season. Now in late winter, or early spring, when I am trying to settle YB's, that is a whole different storey. But, my birds are desended from a long line of survivors, and sometimes my pedigrees indicate so with names like Mister Cooper, Blue Falcon etc. May have been sheer accident, but those birds outsmarted and out flew birds of prey, and went on to be good racers, and I'm never quite sure that is not somehow related. So even if I could snap my fingers and eliminate all hawks from the area, I'm not sure that would help me breed and train the best racers. Anyway, that's how I deal with the "problem" in my mind.


I agree, keeping them lean mean out flying hawk machines, of course it is different with ybs just out for the first few times.....and some just don't get a break from the ambushing BOP's..so they may have to not fly their birds at the peak BOP season...which is a choice only the keeper needs to make....


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## Bluecheckard

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> I have caught a bit of grief in other threads, with other posts I made, for suggesting that perhaps my family of racers are better able to avoid hawk attacks, because of a genetic disposition, being kept lean and in good condition, etc. *after *they reach a certain level of maturity.
> 
> I certainly believe that a fantail pigeon is going to be much more easy to catch then other breeds. And I am sure that in the link provided, compaired to certain other performance breeds, the guy may have a performance breed which is caught less then some of his other breeds.
> 
> I guess what I doubted, if I read the lines correctly, that securing some of those birds would somehow make my birds more secure. But, I have lost far more birds to other causes, then to say a Red Tail hawk, (that I know of) that it just does not seem worth the effort for me to examine the validity of the claim.
> 
> I have had several Coopers Hawks in my back yard at the same time, while way up in the sky, flying with my highfliers, my YB's were quite secure. Every so often (none in 2008 that I know of) one will get caught, and I don't like it, but there is nothing I can do, or talk about on this site. I suggest that any device, product, trick, etc. and there are hundreds of posts on this site, is as far as I am concerned, a waste of time and effort.
> 
> If you think buying a particular breed, or a product, that someone has for sale, will solve your problem, then do what you think is best. Personally, on some level the hawks actually do me a favor, they insure that my birds get a lot of quality loft flying which can run many hours, and they insure very fast trapping. During the race season, they don't bother me at all, in fact they may be helping me. Many times they are young immature hawks, and they really have little chance catching any of my birds late in the season. Now in late winter, or early spring, when I am trying to settle YB's, that is a whole different storey. But, my birds are desended from a long line of survivors, and sometimes my pedigrees indicate so with names like Mister Cooper, Blue Falcon etc. May have been sheer accident, but those birds outsmarted and out flew birds of prey, and went on to be good racers, and I'm never quite sure that is not somehow related. So even if I could snap my fingers and eliminate all hawks from the area, I'm not sure that would help me breed and train the best racers. Anyway, that's how I deal with the "problem" in my mind.



Agree with that. there are few hawks that comes and visit my place in the morning and at night. this hawks have already killed 1 and have injured 2 of my YB's. 1 had broked his right wing and the other have recovered on his injuries. since those attacks happened my birds are flying higher and longer than 1 hour. They are also smarter this time and trapping faster than before. they make sure the hawks are not on the area before they land.


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## RodSD

Hawks are pretty, but I don't like that they like my birds. In fact, yesterday I almost got hit again. A cooper chased my white flight bird and got its tail. My pigeon fell to the ground and I thought that was it. I climbed through the fence and shouted and the hawk flew out leaving my bird. My bird then flew back to my loft. This happened after 1 week lockdown. There is no end in sight. I've had this problem since January. I lock down about 1 week after getting attack, but after releasing my birds again, they will get hit. It seems to be routine now.

I changed my settling method with YB. I now release them around 6 or 8 weeks old. That way they will have a chance to fly away. A resident BOP knows no season. It lives next door around trees. Talk about dilemma!


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## highflyeramatur

go next door and kick the hawk in his stituation while he sleeps bet he wont mess with your birds no more.j/k no it it lives next door it is a problem


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## Guest

theres really no way of stopping them completely, but we can always try to deter them as best we can ... I can tell you theres a few out there that I really wouldnt mind going gangster on thou lol


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## SmithFamilyLoft

RodSD said:


> ....I changed my settling method with YB. I now release them around 6 or 8 weeks old. That way they will have a chance to fly away.......


Hello RodSD,

Unfortnantely, that "solution" also has it's own drawbacks as many can attest to. Out of frustration, I attempted this in the spring of 2008....the result for me, was a "fly off" which resulted in the loss of more YB's in a single morning "event" then I had ever lost all told, from the previous six years from hawk attacks. 

The first week of settling is the most dangerous for "strong on the wing" YB's, if you can get away with it in the first week, you may be OK. I'm never quite that lucky.....the 2nd day out, Mister Cooper comes looking for a meal...and the flock departs to the four winds. Over several days, they drifted back in.....but a large number never returned.

So the question remains....which is worse...losing them painfully one at a time.....or a whole bunch at a time  I can tell you that losing a bunch at a time, is also very frustrating and painful. And I can say with confidence, that a number of our club members attempted to settle "strong on the wing" YB's in 2008, and suffered the same fate....sometimes with loses of nearly 100%. 

So, holding birds back until strong on the wing, may lower your risk on individual losses, but it is not without it's own set of risks.


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## spirit wings

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Hello RodSD,
> 
> Unfortnantely, that "solution" also has it's own drawbacks as many can attest to. Out of frustration, I attempted this in the spring of 2008....the result for me, was a "fly off" which resulted in the loss of more YB's in a single morning "event" then I had ever lost all told, from the previous six years from hawk attacks.
> 
> The first week of settling is the most dangerous for "strong on the wing" YB's, if you can get away with it in the first week, you may be OK. I'm never quite that lucky.....the 2nd day out, Mister Cooper comes looking for a meal...and the flock departs to the four winds. Over several days, they drifted back in.....but a large number never returned.
> 
> So the question remains....which is worse...losing them painfully one at a time.....or a whole bunch at a time  I can tell you that losing a bunch at a time, is also very frustrating and painful. And I can say with confidence, that a number of our club members attempted to settle "strong on the wing" YB's in 2008, and suffered the same fate....sometimes with loses of nearly 100%.
> 
> So, holding birds back until strong on the wing, may lower your risk on individual losses, but it is not without it's own set of risks.


warren, what age do you let your ybs out for the first time?


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## Lovebirds

The bottom line is..........people have discussed "Ways to stop Hawks" for years and years............there's no such thing as stopping them. Nothing you try works in the long run. IF you have a hawk problem, then there's nothing you can do. IF you're lucky and live somewhere that there's NOT a huge problem, then you're just that. Lucky.
I happen to be one of the lucky ones. I lost a 2006 hen a couple of weeks ago right here in my yard. That's the FIRST time, ever, that I've had an OB hit. They've been chased, but I've NEVER had an old bird taken by a hawk in my yard until then. I've had a few YB's but not more than 5 that I can recall in the past 8 years. Don't get me wrong, it still hurts, but I can not imagine having to deal with it on a daily basis. I WOULDN'T deal with it on a daily basis.


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## RodSD

Hey Warren,

Thanks for the advice. 

Here is my conclusion to my little experiment. I released my 3 young birds at 6 or 7 weeks of age. After their third outing the hawk came back headed straight towards them. I thought that was the end of them because my birds were sitting on the roof. But to my surprise they all took off and were able to survive the "chase". I was very happy that my little experiment worked. I was thinking that if I released them at earlier age they wouldn't stood a chance. I felt happy. My forethought worked!

I think the reason your birds get lost is because your birds developed very fast (they get fast on the wing). I have observed that my birds at 6-7 weeks still are not fully strong on the wing. They wont fly far. In fact I have observed that on my only 3 breeding pairs, only 1 pair has children that develop fast. The children can fly from landing board to the house roof at 4 weeks old. They can circle, too. My other pair has children that are slow to develop. They can only fly from the landing board to the loft roof (2 feet). My other pair seems to have medium development. The young birds that I released were the semi-fast developer and the fastest.

Here is what I did to settle them. At 3 weeks old I put them on the training cage on the landing board for 1 hour each day. I also put them on a training basket and put them some distance in front of the loft for 1 hour. I then release my older birds and let my young ones observe. I did that until they were 6 weeks old. It was a tedious process. I did that experiment because I know my resident hawks behavior. I know it will be back again. My hawks target my young, the fat one, and somehow my white birds.

My friend did the same experiment with his birds. When we compared notes, he lost more birds like you Warren. So I believe you are both correct in saying that at 6-8 weeks there is greater probability of fly-off. I think I got lucky that my birds were not fully strong on the wing. Perhaps we should take into consideration then some strain or family of birds into the equation. Slow developing birds maybe can be release at later age. I don't know whether I would use the same settling method though because it is tedious. Usually I release them around 4 weeks old and let them do whatever they want as long as they go in when I call them for food.


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## Guest

as we all know there is no real way to stop the hawks but thru trail and error we can at least learn thru the years what it takes to lose less of our youngins and old birds thru out the years ...and also what are the best times to even start to let out ybs out to fly to begin with .. with all the changes thru out the years we also have to learn how to modify our plans as well ... the hawks are getting smarter too and so we must do the same thing as they give us a run for our money... thats all we can really do and hope for the best .. I hate to lose any of my birds even the slow ones and as many times that I have heard that its all a part of the circle of life I really dont want my birds losing their lives over it no matter what ..I cant help myself , Im all for pro pigeon life and dont mind the loss of a few birds of prey like the one that flew into my neighbors house and died ,but hey thats just me .. I agree they are beautiful birds and deserve to live to but I just dont like the idea of them eating my babys alive


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## SmithFamilyLoft

spirit wings said:


> warren, what age do you let your ybs out for the first time?


 In an idea situation, they would be out in a settling cage/landing board situation a day or two before they are weaned, almost the earlyer the better.
I mean you can't start trap training too early. 

For us in south central Pa. it is very much playing a game with Mr. Cooper, it is as much of a challege as the first 1/2 dozen training tosses. Those that have out run the ole Cooper, have gone on to win races and earn names like Mr. Cooper, Blue Falcon etc. No use *****ing about it, that's just what it is.


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## sufiness

Maybe if you feed the hawks they will leave the pigeons alone? I do know birds pf prey only hunt if they need to. Otherwise will just sit round. Maybe a flock of wild pigeons need to be set up nearby for them to feast on? Maybe its a dum idea. A food supply mght bring more of them.


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## sufiness

feed it before u let your birds out. I think you can buy "dead chicks". I know where I work we have some falcons on display. The falconers do displays with them and as far as i know they only hunt if hungry. The falconers swing a piece of meat (dead chick of chicken) around the falco who then catches it. Feed the falcon win its trust then send your pigeons out. Just make sure its fed.


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## SmithFamilyLoft

sufiness said:


> Maybe if you feed the hawks they will leave the pigeons alone? I do know birds pf prey only hunt if they need to. Otherwise will just sit round. * Maybe a flock of wild pigeons need to be set up nearby for them to feast on?* Maybe its a dum idea. A food supply mght bring more of them.


 I don't think the pigeon lovers on this site will really embrace or like your suggestion. If you really liked pigeons, you would not "set up" pigeons to be killed and eaten, wild one's or otherwise.


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## Charis

sufiness said:


> feed it before u let your birds out. I think you can buy "dead chicks". I know where I work we have some falcons on display. The falconers do displays with them and as far as i know they only hunt if hungry. The falconers swing a piece of meat (dead chick of chicken) around the falco who then catches it. Feed the falcon win its trust then send your pigeons out. Just make sure its fed.


Kind of creepy, sufiness.


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## RodSD

I have observed the following at my place. The hawk keep on returning because it get its meal (doves). I suppose then that when there is food available, they will be back. This spring I do notice that the hawks are leaving my birds alone. I also noticed that they catch other birds (I see those poor birds on their talons--the most painful was when I saw this hawk with a baby sparrow still alive on its talon looking at me, but I can't do anything because the hawk was passing just thru.) It seems that my birds are alive because other species die. During winter, unfortunately, I get the beating.


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## Birdman79

RodSD said:


> I have observed the following at my place. The hawk keep on returning because it get its meal (doves). I suppose then that when there is food available, they will be back. This spring I do notice that the hawks are leaving my birds alone. I also noticed that they catch other birds (I see those poor birds on their talons--the most painful was when I saw this hawk with a baby sparrow still alive on its talon looking at me, but I can't do anything because the hawk was passing just thru.) It seems that my birds are alive because other species die. During winter, unfortunately, I get the beating.


Just saw my resident cooper with a starling in its claws heading towards the nest being chased by 3-4 more starlings.


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## g0ldenb0y55

This hawk game has gone on for years and I am a believer of you have to try it out for yourself and see what works for you. I've read many ideas that works for one person and completely fails for another. In my case the hawks don't stick around all year long so I'm very fortunate. So far I have not seen any around my area since the early part of this year. But when they were around I tried the fake Owl thing, the resident crow thing and many others but had no success. The buggers just stuck around. They chased away my first set of birds and probably got a few of them and I haven't seen my birds since. If the hawks ever show up again I would have to stick to my guns and believe in my birds to out smart them. I love watching my birds fly and the idea of locking them up for weeks because a hawk is around is just not for me. That will only fatten them up and make it easier for the hawk to catch them when you think it's okay to let them out. I know this idea isn't shared by many of the other members here but I've learned that there isn't a full proof way of dealing with hawks. If the hawk wants to stick around it WILL stick around and try to get at your birds and eventually take one or two. People don't like to hear it but it happens. I'd rather keep my birds in top condition year round and believe in their ability to out run and out smart a hawk.


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## LUCKYT

All i have to add to this is, Oriental rollers must be FLYING Oriental rollers, NOT show Birds. The 3 real ones i had years ago out flew Hawks for years, until like i fool, i traded them off. Show Types are almost easier to catch then Birmingham Rollers! I am still looking! Dave.


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## TrevorsCoop

Let me say something. there is a good wild bird to have around. My grandfather (had better luck then I did) lived in a wooded area and he had alot of crows. And i have personally witnessed the crows chasing the hawks away. And when they spot one they crow like crazy and the birds new and they darted back to the coop. So they helped where by me, no crows around and i lost my pet pigeons. Now i am going to be moving to the woods of PA. . . . and i can have pigeons again. Would it be safer to fly them? I will be trap training them so they now the _shake shake shake_ means get into the coop for food. good idea?


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## nanglo

you guys should try using a remote control air plane to try to chase the BOP away. It's just a thought, i'm not sure if it will work, but i might work as well.


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## conditionfreak

A remote controlled airplane is a nice thought, but won't work in practicality. You would need a football sized clear field to have any success with it. Most have trees and such around.


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## Guest

yeah I agree you would never have enuf time to get that plane into the air let alone the area of where the hawk is that is hitting on your birds


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## hamlet

BCBrian said:


> There is supposed to be a product that you coat a pigeon with that'll make it taste so horrible - the hawks after an attack or two, will abandon your flock.


Hello. Do you remember any names? Thanks.


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## Jay3

You don't want to use something like that on your birds, as they would also get it when they clean their feathers. That would be awful.


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## JasoninMN

Birds don't have a strong sense of smell and taste. They sell hot pepper powder to mix with bird seed to stop bears and squirrels from eating it. It doesn't both the birds.


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## Charis

http://www.bto.org/sites/default/files/u23/downloads/publications/bird-table/BT69_LR_12-13.pdf


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## Jay3

Interesting article.


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## hasseian_313

will no pigeon is 100% halk proof but i would like to say paki highflyers are close because they fly fast and high as soon as they see a threat i had homers that whould orginze an attack on a hawk but they thing is the landing and when a pigeons is on a roof theirs not much to do its gotten so bad in michigan ppl just quit flying altogather some even left the hobby what can we do ...


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## earlofwood

*Galetini Rollers*



Margarret said:


> I need to tell you the rest. Go to Catalonian Tumblers. Go to the bottom of the page and see Catalonian Tumblers save pigeons from hawks.
> 
> Margaret


I have read a similar article about Galetini Roller Pigeons out-flying and frustrating hawks. This was very interesting. Thanks for sharing!


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## hamlet

hasseian_313 said:


> will no pigeon is 100% halk proof but i would like to say paki highflyers are close because they fly fast and high as soon as they see a threat


if a falcon is a pigeon hawk then, i am thinking that solo flying and high flying will only make things worse. I was thinking that to get protection from bops, birds need to stick together. I used to think that it was a good thing when birds scattered all over the city and reunited when the threat was gone because they always came back. So now, I am not sure because at that time, most of my birds were collected from the streets: from every direction. I have seen a tumbler go high fast while flying with younger birds, which left the young vulnerable. So I always thought my tumblers not to fly high, even during times of danger by releasing low flyers. I have seen how the kit tires out the falcon at mid to low altitudes when they stick together. 
Have you tried to teach your pakis to low fly? Can pakis fly low? I used to keep mix birds between the armenian and iranian high flying tumblers and i was finally happy about their survival rate. It had taken me many years to figure out that by myself because i had no internet then. thanks.


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## Steve

Every time I used to go out feed the pigeons a short wing hawk would be sitting in loft window , door or on fence post. Always only one ??? They hate their own kind and other BOP. Fake owl worked for a while , but if not moved they catch on. I was told garden mirror ball works better than dummy owl. They see another hawk moving in the mirror, which is actually their own reflection. They either leave or try to fight the mirror. They are polished mirror stainless steel, (can be expensive ) . I purchased the largest one I could afford, next yr a second one. Small hole so can be mounted on a post with finishing nail. They are weather proof. Have not seen a short wing hawk hanging out at cages. But they fly buy, so ??? Have not let birds out to fly. But other breeder told me , depending on direction of the attack, if ball is there, hawk will see another coming in for attack simultaneously in reflection of ball. If the hawk hesitates his moment of opportunity is lost. The pigeon gains a few seconds lead to get away. The hawk will feel threatened that they is in another birds territory and leave or think twice at another attack. I do not know how effective they work on attack situations. Nor how good a hawk can see, so I tried to purchase the largest size I could. Garden supply and ornamental garden supply sell them plus online. Depending on size 70 - 250.00 for one. Not the kind of item one is likely to find at a garage sale but maybe. Colored and colored finish ones may work, but I went with the plain so they can hopfully see a good image of another. Falcons have a different attack approach so I do not see how a ball near ground level would deter them. I do not think any thing is fool proof. I also stopped loosing my young chickens that were out loose. One ball was stolen , but to date , there is still no hawk loitering out there, with only one ball. Have not seen any falcons but they are here, the city banded 18 baby falcons on the bldgs in the downtown area this yr.


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## lordcornwallis

try using rule.303 ive been told it works


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## Birdman79

You're going to have days where multiple BOP are going to hit your birds no matter what.I had a falcon and a cooper hit at the same time .On another day i had 3 full grown coopers attack all at the same time.This was around December.So if a predator is really hungry their main objective is getting a meal above all costs.Kinda like when a cooper comes too close to you as he's attacking the birds.


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## Steve

Strange, as I have never seen more than one short wing hawk at a time. Sharp shin and cooper are solitary except during mating season, and even then they are territorial. During migrating season more than one may take a hit. But they will usually chase the other competitor away if they see each other. Owls behave the same way. When my birds are locked up, I have never seen but one short wing trying to get in, never two. Even sparrow hawks will chase away the larger short wing hawks. Since I have a garden ball out , none of the above loiter up close trying to get in. I only see them flying by checking the area out. I am sure if I let birds out they would still try to attack them from a different direction away from the garden ball area.


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## 95SPORTSTER

Birdman79 said:


> You're going to have days where multiple BOP are going to hit your birds no matter what.I had a falcon and a cooper hit at the same time .On another day i had 3 full grown coopers attack all at the same time.This was around December.So if a predator is really hungry their main objective is getting a meal above all costs.Kinda like when a cooper comes too close to you as he's attacking the birds.


amen to that! After being out of the hobby/lifestye lol I got back into birds a couple of yeas ago. Now I live in a very rural area of upstate NY. What I have found is if the hawks want your birds your going to suffer loses no way of avoiding it. I have tried Serbian HF (great birds ok against the hawks) Iranian HF(so far the best at avoiding the hawks), Shaksharli Tumblers(beautiful birds but no good at avoiding the hawks) Ukranian Sky cutters(again beautiful hawk food) Portugese tumblers( small fast flyers unfortunetly racoons wiped out 32 birds in a night so no loses to hawks)and Pica Pouter( hawks broke through the wire to get them so no idea how they would fare in the air). I have had hawks chase birds within 3 ft of my head talk about an experience, coopers hawk and peregine literally break through the wire(1/4 chicken wire) to get at birds. Combine that with racoons,weasels,fisher,mink,possum and skunk my next loft will be a concrete bunker on piers that I will use a ladder to get into lol. That being said I will quote a member on here who stated " my birds are not hawk proof but I only breed the survivors so they are now hawk resistant." As for crows I discovered by accident that they can be a great ally, they loved going through the compost pile after cleaning my loft picking out the corn(can only get pre-mixed feed around here) and quickly recognized that the pigeons = food and I watched a dozen crows chase of a coopers hawk repeatedly. 

As for the Catolian tumblers from my research these birds where breed in Spain to compete against bop win they live lose their dinner. My understanding is they are tough to get started but once trained make an excellent discouragement to the resident bop as they can't catch them and soon learn to not even bother trying. I have read of using Orientals to teach the hawks to leave your birds alone but no experience with them. I want to try these two breeds before giving up entirely on flying and going back to just show birds.

So long story short if your going to fly your going to lose birds. As for having a flock of ferals nearby I have plenty of wild pigeons in the barns around here and have never witnessed a hawk attacking them. Although because of all the attacks scattering my birds the local area now has some new bloodlines added to it. Due to my being into pigeons several of my friends and my daughters now look at them when they see them on the telephone wires or barn roofs and I have been told of some of my "disappeared birds " turning up on a barn 3 miles away living with the barn pigeons. My daughter saw one of my Iranians and recognized her when she tumbled up. Don't know if the hawks don't attack the ferals which are mostly blue bars and recognize that mine are not wild by the different colors but it is an interesting thought.


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## Jay3

What you want with crows, is them nesting nearby. That is when they will chase off the hawks, to protect their nest.


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## 95SPORTSTER

true and you have to be able to put up with their noise lol but they are a very intelligent bird and if you can get them to associate your pigeons with a food source they will hang around and protect them.


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