# Possible respiratory illness; how best to treat?



## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

I have 3 new squeakers I brought home a week ago, they are in quarantine from my other birds but I'm not giving them any preventatives other than probios.

I noticed today that one of the birds appears to possibly be breathing funny, beak slightly open and making some small croaky sounds from time to time. He was doing this as I was sitting next to them and talking to them, if it was a parrot I'd have thought he was 'talking back.'

After watching him closely for several minutes at a time on and off through the afternoon I am sure he's sneezing quite a bit and it sounds snotty. The only other odd behavior was he seemed to be opening his beak as though he's trying to clear his throat. Of course I thought of canker, so I examined his throat and as far down as I can see it is clear.

I removed him to his own little cage and I was going to give him Foys's 4-in-1 (contains furaltadone and ronidazole) just to be on the safe side, but got to thinking that respiratory infections have specific treatments and I might be medicating him with the wrong stuff, so I decided to consult the group brain as to best next steps. 

This bird is active, alert, eating greedily, poops look good, otherwise appears perfect picture of health in other words and I may be over-reacting, but any thoughts as to symptoms and treatment suggestions are greatly appreciated!

I can not consult a vet till next Tuesday cuz it's a holiday weekend - OF COURSE - and these are the medications I have on hand:

4-in-1 (contains furaltadone and ronidazole)
Terramycin (soluble powder)
Sulmet (liquid for the drinking water)
doxycyline (tablets, already gave him a dose just in case)
Chlortetracycline (soluble powder)

Thanks for any tips...


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

Hello The Snipes,

I had a pigeon a week or so ago who made sounds similar to what you describe yours as having.

I linked two videos to this thread "Pigeon 'Creaker' with respiratory creaks and clicks"

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?p=220585&highlight=creaker#post220585

To save time, you might look at these videos and compare notes. It's a minute to midnight here in Cologne and will be signing off in a minute. It might be interesting for comparison and contrast.

I never did know exactly what "Creaker" had, but he/she is doing quite well. 

Larry


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Sorry to hear about your sick youngster. What I have found to be most effective for treating respiratory infections is Doxy-T, made by the Australian Pigeon Company and available from most of the pigeon supply houses. It contains Doxycycline and Tylosin to address both mycoplasma and chlamydia, the usual culprits in respiratory infections in pigeons. So for what you have on hand, I think Doxycycline would be the best one to give him. 

Doxycyline addresses chlamydia and Tylosin targets mycoplasma. If he doesn't respond well to Doxycycline alone you can buy Tylosin under the brand name Tylan. It's my understanding that the combination preparation is most effective, though. 

Remember to pull grit and any other calcium source, as calcium diminishes the effectiveness of Tetracycline antibiotics.


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

Thank you Larry and BirdMom!!!

I have this youngster inside for the night. I hate that I had to put him in a new cage, alone, and bring him indoors, I hate to subject any bird not seeming 100% to new stresses. But I want to keep him apart from others and its getting chilly at night now, so it's a necessity. I hate to add more anxiety. 

BirdMom: since I have the doxy and it might be a good choice according to your experience, I will keep him on it. I will try to get the other drug (Tylan?) but I bet it won't arrive via post till middle of next week. 

Larry: I tried to view your video but couldn't make it work, (may be my decidedly non-standard browser, as I use Linux) I will keep trying so I can make that comparison. If it is the same thing, I know that I can't provide the same supportive care you did to Creaker, it sounds very sophisticated, what you did! But I definitely want to compare the sounds with what I am seeing.

There is always such good advice and help here! Many thanks!!  If he gets worse or anything changes I will yell for help!


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

"I have this youngster inside for the night. I hate that I had to put him in a new cage, alone, and bring him indoors, I hate to subject any bird not seeming 100% to new stresses. But I want to keep him apart from others and its getting chilly at night now, so it's a necessity. I hate to add more anxiety. 

BirdMom: since I have the doxy and it might be a good choice according to your experience, I will keep him on it. I will try to get the other drug (Tylan?) but I bet it won't arrive via post till middle of next week." 

I think you did the right thing by bringing him in, though. Do you also have him on supplemental heat? That's a good idea if it's chilly at night, despite the stress of being moved.

I just wanted to add that I've seen respiratory infections in birds that have been relocated and during molting, which is taking place now. Both those things are stress factors and can cause an underlying infection to cause illness. Hope you get the Tylan quickly next week. Watch the others closely and if I were you, I'd put them on doxy too as protection. Respiratory infections are very contagious.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi, TS, I noticed that you don't have any stand alone wormers or cankers meds
on hand....tsk, tsk, tsk! You should get some in and have rotationals as well.

The only thing that I would add to the suggested treatment is that Doxycycline
and Metronidazole may be given together and sometimes canker does get into
the lung/air sacs.

fp


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

TheSnipes said:


> I noticed today that one of the birds appears to possibly be breathing funny, *beak slightly open and making some small croaky sounds from time to time. * He was doing this as I was sitting next to them and talking to them, if it was a parrot I'd have thought he was 'talking back.'
> 
> After watching him closely for several minutes at a time on and off through the afternoon I am sure he's sneezing quite a bit and it sounds snotty. *The only other odd behavior was he seemed to be opening his beak as though he's trying to clear his throat. * Of course I thought of canker, so I examined his throat and as far down as I can see it is clear.
> 
> ...


Hello there...

Sometimes, female pigeons or ones that aren't receptive to humans just never "wise/tame" up and will exhibit signs of respiratory problems around humans and when in fact they are fine. HOWEVER, minor illnesses can lead to stress and/or fear that can make a pigeon display signs and/or symptoms of respiratory problems that come secondary to other things. Grunting is often a sign of nervousness and anxiousness in a pigeon around it's owner and during different circumstances.

Respiratory illnesses can be difficult to pinpoint. Here are some things to consider and look for; sneezing constantly and throughout the day with no breaks, watery eyes that eventually develop "bags" underneath, wet or greasy looking ceres, overall weakness that leads to debilitation/grounding of the bird. A pigeon with respiratory problems will often go light, be grounded and make audible sounds while breathing.

Besides Doxy T, Tetracycline can be given to the bird and it will often work if given in large enough doses and for about a week. I recently had a pigeon that came down with a respiratory infection, administered the Tetra and after a week, the bird was back to normal. DON 'T invite trouble or bring out the heavy duty stuff without first trying the other things first. 


Good luck and keep a close eye on the symptoms.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Browser*

Hello The Snipes,

Maybe try the free browser Mozilla Firefox.

I use Safari on my Mac, also could use Linux if I partitioned hard drive or used Parallels or something like that, but haven't gotten around to it. Same with MS Windows Internet Explorer.

I also have several other browsers for Mac: Opera, Camino, Mozilla Thunderbird, Mozilla Firefox, iCab. Do most of my browsing with Safari, and use Firefox for several websites not yet compatible with Safari browser.

The video files are stored in my (free) Google Mail account.

When I bring a feral rescue in, I try to let him see my tame pigeon Wieteke roo-cooing around me. They seem to relax a bit, and often start eating then for the first time.

Larry


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

*Sounds a little worse this morning..*

This morning he's about the same, alert etc, but still sneezing and the sound of wetness, it's hard to describe, like when you have a congested cough or something, is worse today. So something is definitely going on and he does make some sounds when breathing (that little creaky sound). That is intermittent though and he does not appear to be having any difficulty breathing.

I see from Brad that I could switch to tetracycline, I have a soluble version, but I decided to give him the canker med that I have - also a soluble given via drinking water - as well now and don't want to put two ingredients in the water. Or would that be OK? What about hitting the bird with doxy AND tetracycline, would that be bad? It looks like I won't get Tylan till middle of next week and who knows he might get very ill by then or ?? He's had his 2nd dose of doxy this morning.

BTW I do have a wormer but I didn't think it would be a good drug to use for what seemed like respiratory issues, and the 4-in-1 that I mentioned contains canker med.  I just wasn't sure if I should use it, and it says not to combine it with other antibiotics...it's hard to make the right choices when working on zero personal experience.

Thanks again for your helps...


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

Hello Snipes,

I have read that it is okay to give Spartrix (carnidazole for canker/trichomoniasis) along with other meds, but maybe someone else will be along to verify that. Don't know right off the dis/similarities of Spartrix/carnidazole with the other canker meds (ronidazole, etc).

Also I have been told that it is okay to give cotrim (antibiotic SMX-TMP) along with other meds (although we're not discussing cotrim right now).

Tetracycline should not be given along with anything that has calcium in it.

Okay, looking at German instructions I have for Spartrix 10mg tablets "no known interactions or contraindications of carnidazole with other meds" (_Nebenwirkungen und Wechselwirkungen mit anderen Mitteln: Sind bisher nicht bekannt)._

Larry


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

I wouldn't mix the canker med and antibiotic in the water. It might make it so bitter that he won't drink enough. Plus I'm not sure about drug interactions. I like to give them the canker med separately, as Larry suggested with Spartrix. I've used it in conjunction with other meds and didn't have a problem. I've also given them a single Metronidazole dose (1/2 tablet) while they were on antibiotics in their water.

I really think that Doxy-T would be better than just adding Tylan to what you have. As FP pointed out, the drugs are most effective when used together and it comes in a tried-and-true mixture. If you mix meds yourself you again may run into the problem of making the water too bitter. JMO


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

Larry_Cologne said:


> Hello The Snipes,
> 
> Maybe try the free browser Mozilla Firefox.
> 
> ...


I use Firefox...I don't know what I did yesterday but today it worked fine. Operator error. I reviewed the threat with Creaker again and it does sound a bit similar, though the creaky breathing sounds are not continuous (yet?) I just hope I can get the right drug combo in time to help him.


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

Birdmom4ever said:


> I wouldn't mix the canker med and antibiotic in the water. It might make it so bitter that he won't drink enough. Plus I'm not sure about drug interactions. I like to give them the canker med separately, as Larry suggested with Spartrix. I've used it in conjunction with other meds and didn't have a problem. I've also given them a single Metronidazole dose (1/2 tablet) while they were on antibiotics in their water.
> 
> I really think that Doxy-T would be better than just adding Tylan to what you have. As FP pointed out, the drugs are most effective when used together and it comes in a tried-and-true mixture. If you mix meds yourself you again may run into the problem of making the water too bitter. JMO


I put an order in but I'm sure I won't get anything delivered before Wed. or Thursday due to the labor day long weekend. I hope he hangs in there.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

TS, the canker meds can be mixed together w/Bactrim and Doxy. The only 
time I mix two meds in the water is when I use Amprolium and Ronidazole as
that is already sold as a mix and I know it will work. Otherwise, I'm talking about dosing a bird individually by hand and their water remains purified
water as they are on meds and need the water to help flush the meds through
their system. Hope this helps.

fp


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

You can use a childrens antihistymine (without alcohol), the kind that dries up the sinuses, until the medicine arrives. Use just a drop mixed with a little water, an use a dropper and dispurse slowly down the side of beak. My rehabber has used it for birds with wet runny noses and eyes. 

You probably should also try echinacea to get the immune system in gear. Use for 3 days, 1/4 of a human dose, and make sure it is also alcohol free. A drop of Neem oil, and even garlic cap wouldn't hurt if the bird is 2 months or older.

Probiotics will initiate some positive bacterial growth and replenish any gut bacteria that has been lost due to stress, especially if the bird has wet poops.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

One other thing to consider with birds that have upper respiratory illnesses: it's best to keep them in high-humidity environments so that phlegm doesn't dry down too much. You can put them in a bathroom and make it steamy with hot water or even use a nebulizer to get some moisture in (use saline: 1 teaspoon of salt to a quart of water). Birds have a relatively long trachea that's easy to get blocked during such an illness. I have taken a bird in for a series of nebulized treatments of saline and Gentamicin before.

Pidgey


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

Still don't have the tylosin combo, but continuing with the doxy. He stopped sneezing/coughing sometime Sunday, now he just sounds odd when he squeaks. He doesn't so much squeak as he "honks". Sounds like a little goose  so I guess he's still stuffed up (?)

Anyway his newbie cage-mates are getting tetracycline too in the water just in case but they seem fine. I'm putting him back in with them during the day as they really seemed distressed when they could see each other from far away but not be together. Of course once I did reunite them, they bickered. At night since it's cool I still bring him inside. He got a couple of "steam treatments" and could always keep on with those for a few more days.

When the new drug finally comes I guess I'll go ahead and give it to him just to be on the safe side,...?

Thanks again everyone... 

Here's his picture...


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

TheSnipes said:


> Still don't have the tylosin combo, but continuing with the doxy. He stopped sneezing/coughing sometime Sunday, now he just sounds odd when he squeaks. He doesn't so much squeak as he "honks". Sounds like a little goose  so I guess he's still stuffed up (?)
> 
> Anyway his newbie cage-mates are getting tetracycline too in the water just in case but they seem fine. I'm putting him back in with them during the day as they really seemed distressed when they could see each other from far away but not be together. Of course once I did reunite them, they bickered. At night since it's cool I still bring him inside. He got a couple of "steam treatments" and could always keep on with those for a few more days.
> 
> ...


Glad he's getting better! Lovely bird, BTW. If I were you, I would go ahead and give him the Tylosin when it comes. Did you order Tylan by itself or the Doxy-T combo? 

It would be a good idea to keep some Doxy-T on hand just in case any of the others pop up with symptoms. When we had an outbreak a couple years ago I started by separating and treating individual birds that were sick. Just when I'd think all was well, someone else would pop up with symptoms. It finally ended when I put the whole flock on Doxy-T. It was also very effective on a new Nun pigeon I was given earlier this year who had respiratory symptoms when I got him. I treated him with Doxy-T while he was in quarantine. He made a full recovery and none of my other pigeons got sick.


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

Birdmom4ever said:


> Glad he's getting better! Lovely bird, BTW. If I were you, I would go ahead and give him the Tylosin when it comes. Did you order Tylan by itself or the Doxy-T combo?
> 
> It would be a good idea to keep some Doxy-T on hand just in case any of the others pop up with symptoms. When we had an outbreak a couple years ago I started by separating and treating individual birds that were sick. Just when I'd think all was well, someone else would pop up with symptoms. It finally ended when I put the whole flock on Doxy-T. It was also very effective on a new Nun pigeon I was given earlier this year who had respiratory symptoms when I got him. I treated him with Doxy-T while he was in quarantine. He made a full recovery and none of my other pigeons got sick.


He is a handsome baby, (moms always think so). Thanks for the compliment 

Excellent advice as I was wondering about treating the whole group and had done it since someone (maybe it was you?) suggested it might be wise JIC. the more meds I have on hand the better I feel but it seems when something crops up, it's not what I'm prepared for. (Just like life?) I was thinking about giving him the tylan alone when it comes...

I ordered some of both. Actually, doxy-T (from siegels, or new england?) and something from Jedd's called tylobiotic. these were new babies i'd brought home and had in quarantine for less than a week when this guy took ill. i figured hey are very stressed and vitamins would be a real good asset. Thoughts?


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Vitamins are are great idea and also probiotics once they finish their meds. You kept all the youngsters quarantined, right? So only they, not the rest of your flock, had potential exposure? If it were me, I'd put all these youngsters on Doxy-T for a couple days. I just looked at my bottle and the instructions are to give it to them for 2-5 days, so two days as a prevention sounds reasonable. Same for your little guy who was sick. 

I also keep various meds on hand: several different things for Trich and Cocci, several different antibiotics. It gets kind of expensive because I have to re-stock when they expire. But like small children, pigeons often seem to get sick or hurt on weekends or holidays. So it's good to keep some meds available at all times.


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

Birdmom4ever said:


> Vitamins are are great idea and also probiotics once they finish their meds. You kept all the youngsters quarantined, right? So only they, not the rest of your flock, had potential exposure? If it were me, I'd put all these youngsters on Doxy-T for a couple days. I just looked at my bottle and the instructions are to give it to them for 2-5 days, so two days as a prevention sounds reasonable. Same for your little guy who was sick.


That's right, the 3 new guys are isolated (but they are together, since they came from the same loft) so only they had potential exposure. I'll give them all a round of the new treatments, it came today. I want to be extra sure they're OK before I let them move in with the rest, who are all sitting on eggs - last thing I need is to infect a bunch of stressed breeding birds  



Birdmom4ever said:


> I also keep various meds on hand: several different things for Trich and Cocci, several different antibiotics. It gets kind of expensive because I have to re-stock when they expire. But like small children, pigeons often seem to get sick or hurt on weekends or holidays. So it's good to keep some meds available at all times.


That's my problem, gradually building a stock supply of everything! I get a little bit more of handy-to-have supplies every month - but when I need something, of course it's NOT what I already have, and it's always a weekend! How do pathogens know this?


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

I don't know; I think it's kind of a Murphy's Law thing. Eventually you'll find you have what you need most of the time. But even so, a bird will sometimes come up with something new. 

I always quarantine new birds for a full month even if they show no signs of illness or have an ailment I've treated successfully. You're right to be extra cautious at this time of year. The stress of molting makes pigeons more vulnerable to illness; even more so if they are still raising young.


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