# How do I tell a male pigeon from a female one?



## NewWithPidgies (Apr 20, 2015)

I've had many pigeons over the past weeks. Some big, some small. Some white, some brown and some dark grey. But I could never tell the male from the female so I decided to return them to where they came from, the bird dealer. Now I have two pigeons, one grey and one white. I brought the white one when the dealer claimed that he could tell the male from the female. He said that it was a female. The grey one I have is already a male. So that white one puffs its neck and makes a sound of 'gutter-goo' infront of my grey pigeon just like him. When that happens, my grey pigeon flies away escaping the (awkward?) situation. I used to think that puffing of neck and the making of the gutter goo sound was done by the male only. That's the only thing I thought I knew that could be the trait of the male and now I'm confused. Both of them even had a good fight the first day I brought the white pigeon. Could the dealer be mistaken? How can I tell their gender on my own?


----------



## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Hello and Welcome to PT
I think you're the first member from east India I'm meeting and Haflong is such a place with beautiful landscapes.

Yes the seller may get mistaken. Or not,he's just there to sell things, if you know what I mean. There's no sure shot way to tell them apart just by looking at them. Both may be males but fighting doesn't necessarily imply that. You may not have introduced them to each other in the right way.
Where do you keep your pigeons?


----------



## NewWithPidgies (Apr 20, 2015)

Jass SamOplay said:


> Hello and Welcome to PT
> I think you're the first member from east India I'm meeting and Haflong is such a place with beautiful landscapes.
> 
> Yes the seller may get mistaken. Or not,he's just there to sell things, if you know what I mean. There's no sure shot way to tell them apart just by looking at them. Both may be males but fighting doesn't necessarily imply that. You may not have introduced them to each other in the right way.
> Where do you keep your pigeons?


Thanks  I keep them in a coop in the lawn I built for them.


----------



## NewWithPidgies (Apr 20, 2015)

What about that gutter goo sound? Initially my grey pidg used to make that sound, puff its neck and try to circle the white one. But after the fight, the white one seems to have dominated Grey and tries to do that same thing to him and kind of bullies him and scares him away. Now White overtakes the whole coop for the whole time except at night, which used to be Grey's home before him.


----------



## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Physical characteristics may be confusing for a newbie.
Usually a male would coo loudly and for longer than a female.
They are more aggresive and territorial and rotate 360 degree in a row while cooing, dancing and tail dragging.


----------



## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

You may like to read this thread.
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f5/male-or-female-76414.html
Can you post pics?


----------



## NewWithPidgies (Apr 20, 2015)

Cooing is that 'gutter-goo' sound, right? Well both of them coo equally loud. They lower their heads too while they coo. But I've never witnessed the tail dragging in them. And I don't think I know what 'dancing' in pigeons is. I don't think I've ever seen one in any of the pigeons I ever came across.
Before White came, whenever I cooed to my Grey, he would fly and come close to me and coo back to me and would puff his neck. Lol. But after White's showed up in the scene, he doesn't answer to my call at all. Maybe he's too scared to act that way in presence of White...?


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

NewWithPidgies said:


> I've had many pigeons over the past weeks. Some big, some small. Some white, some brown and some dark grey. But I could never tell the male from the female so I decided to return them to where they came from, the bird dealer. Now I have two pigeons, one grey and one white. I brought the white one when the dealer claimed that he could tell the male from the female. He said that it was a female. The grey one I have is already a male. So that white one puffs its neck and makes a sound of 'gutter-goo' infront of my grey pigeon just like him. When that happens, my grey pigeon flies away escaping the (awkward?) situation. I used to think that puffing of neck and the making of the gutter goo sound was done by the male only. That's the only thing I thought I knew that could be the trait of the male and now I'm confused. Both of them even had a good fight the first day I brought the white pigeon. Could the dealer be mistaken? How can I tell their gender on my own?


There is one way to tell a mature hen , that is the one who lays eggs,but even pigeons who don't lay or seem too because they used another's nest could be a hen. So really there is no way to tell, folks can guess but that is all, it's easier to just let them show you when they pair up and nest, most are cock/hen, some same sexes pair up and nest also.


----------



## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Hmmmm... both may be cocks.
Dancing is circling around when making "gutter goon" sound and tail dragging to woo a hen.
Puffing up and pecking/wing slapping is a sign of anger, anxiety or fear


----------



## NewWithPidgies (Apr 20, 2015)

spirit wings. White is supposed to be a female according to the bird dealer, but it is actually bigger (and therefore stronger) than Grey. Apparently, this evening Grey was too scared to enter his very own coop which had been preoccupied by White. I had to remove White to captivity so Grey could stay in the coop without fear. Whether they make same sex couples or not, my pigeons are not even getting anywhere near to making peace with each other. I've decided to return White to the dealer and trust him again to try to identify and pick me one female pidg for the one I returned. I can't wait weeks to see what happens. I'm so running out of patience to see baby pidgies.


----------



## NewWithPidgies (Apr 20, 2015)

Jass. I think. My grey pigeon doesn't do that anymore. White does. And like I mentioned earlier, Grey moves away from white when he coos and treats him like a female. Btw I'll post pics as soon as it is morning.


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

NewWithPidgies said:


> spirit wings. White is supposed to be a female according to the bird dealer, but it is actually bigger (and therefore stronger) than Grey. Apparently, this evening Grey was too scared to enter his very own coop which had been preoccupied by White. I had to remove White to captivity so Grey could stay in the coop without fear. Whether they make same sex couples or not, my pigeons are not even getting anywhere near to making peace with each other. I've decided to return White to the dealer and trust him again to try to identify and pick me one female pidg for the one I returned. I can't wait weeks to see what happens. I'm so running out of patience to see baby pidgies.


Well patience or not it is not going to go faster just because you want it to. Working with live birds you are on their time line not your own. Pigeons that are not a pair already need time to even decide if the hen wants to pick that male, she may not. The dealer may be guessing which then there is a percentage of error. What is the big hurry to make more pigeons, there are plenty in the world as it is, but you may have a special plan to breed better purebred pigeons ? You didn't mention the breed.


----------



## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

NewWithPidgies said:


> Jass. I think. My grey pigeon doesn't do that anymore. White does. And like I mentioned earlier, Grey moves away from white when he coos and treats him like a female. Btw I'll post pics as soon as it is morning.


Are the pigeons of same breed?
The white one may be a homer and grey one a highflyer. Homers are almost twice as strong as highflyers so they dominate them.
Swapping the white one for female is a good idea. Hope the grey one is not female herself


----------



## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

Try this,
Pick up one pigeon at a time and hold it in your hand. Feel the keel bone of the bird. The males have shorter stockier keel bones. In comparison to a human, a males keel bone will feel like it only goes to about mid chest. Short and kinda bulky. A females keel bone is longer and sharper(longer I think so they can push out the eggs) and should feel like,in comparison to a human, to go all the way down to the bellybutton/pubic region.
That's the best and only way I determine if they are male or female.


----------



## NewWithPidgies (Apr 20, 2015)

spirit wings said:


> Well patience or not it is not going to go faster just because you want it to. Working with live birds you are on their time line not your own. Pigeons that are not a pair already need time to even decide if the hen wants to pick that male, she may not. The dealer may be guessing which then there is a percentage of error. What is the big hurry to make more pigeons, there are plenty in the world as it is, but you may have a special plan to breed better purebred pigeons ? You didn't mention the breed.


I have no plan, I just would like the sound of soothing and peaceful cooing around my humble cottage. I don't think I know what breed they are. Don't have much knowledge. People around here don't really care and I don't have much experience with birds. Does it make a difference if both of them belong to different breeds?


----------



## NewWithPidgies (Apr 20, 2015)

Jass SamOplay said:


> Are the pigeons of same breed?
> The white one may be a homer and grey one a highflyer. Homers are almost twice as strong as highflyers so they dominate them.
> Swapping the white one for female is a good idea. Hope the grey one is not female herself


i'm sorry I haven't been able to post pics. My birds are way too wild to stand the sight of the camera. They just wouldn't let me get close to them and click pictures. Lol.
Again, does it matter if they are of the same breed or not? On second thoughts, I have decided to keep White. Maybe I'll bring females for both of them later if both happen to turn out to be males. But as of now, they so seem like males and do not look pleased to have each other's company. Infact, White picks on Grey and pecks him and tries to pull off all of his feathers.


----------



## NewWithPidgies (Apr 20, 2015)

kingdizon said:


> Try this,
> Pick up one pigeon at a time and hold it in your hand. Feel the keel bone of the bird. The males have shorter stockier keel bones. In comparison to a human, a males keel bone will feel like it only goes to about mid chest. Short and kinda bulky. A females keel bone is longer and sharper(longer I think so they can push out the eggs) and should feel like,in comparison to a human, to go all the way down to the bellybutton/pubic region.
> That's the best and only way I determine if they are male or female.


Okay I just tried this. I took measurements. Grey measured 6 cms and White measured 7 cms, maybe because it is bigger in stature. And both of their keel bones seemed to start from below the crop and end just a centimetre before the clocal opening in both the cases. Now I don't know whether that was male or female because I haven't had the chance to feel the other type of bone.


----------



## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

NewWithPidgies said:


> Okay I just tried this. I took measurements. Grey measured 6 cms and White measured 7 cms, maybe because it is bigger in stature. And both of their keel bones seemed to start from below the crop and end just a centimetre before the clocal opening in both the cases. Now I don't know whether that was male or female because I haven't had the chance to feel the other type of bone.


???yeaa I never measure with a ruler I just feel. Lol just post some pictures🐦


----------



## NewWithPidgies (Apr 20, 2015)

kingdizon said:


> ???yeaa I never measure with a ruler I just feel. Lol just post some picturesí*½í°¦


Lol. I measured because I didn't know what length meant what since you told me females had longer keel bones. And my pidgies are kind of always running away from me and the camera. But I'll put pics whenever I can.


----------



## NewWithPidgies (Apr 20, 2015)

Hi guys. I want to thank all for your help. I really appreciate it for I've received a lot of assistance from you all and it has been amazingly helpful.
So it turns out both Grey and White were males cuz when I got them two other females and White already paired up and mated with one of the greyish black females on the 2nd day. Grey is trying to get the other one and looks likely to succeed soon. So things are going well with the pairing thing. Now the problem is, White always seems agitated by Grey's presence nearby and always picks on him and chases him to the extent that its creating a hindrance for Grey to mingle up with his female. Also, White picks on Grey's female too every chance he gets. He just can't stand the other pair. What do I do to resolve this? Also, I'd like to know what breed they are. They kind of look like rock pigeons except for White, which, also looks a mix of different breeds. Any help on these two issues would be greatly appreciated. Thanks


----------



## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

That's great to hear things are smoothening.

Without a pic its hard to tell the breed. You don't need to be up close to take a pic if you could manage it from few feets away that will be fine. Zoom the camera out

You must not let them fight. They may injure each other badly. The oppressed may lose its eye. Pls post a pic of your coop also. The dominating couple need to be locked up in its box so the other couple may win back his turf.


----------



## NewWithPidgies (Apr 20, 2015)

Jass SamOplay said:


> That's great to hear things are smoothening.
> 
> Without a pic its hard to tell the breed. You don't need to be up close to take a pic if you could manage it from few feets away that will be fine. Zoom the camera out
> 
> You must not let them fight. They may injure each other badly. The oppressed may lose its eye. Pls post a pic of your coop also. The dominating couple need to be locked up in its box so the other couple may win back his turf.


Somehow I'm unable to post pics here. Can you tell me your email address so I can send it to you and then you can post it here for others to inspect furthur? Thanks again


----------



## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

With pleasure!
jaspreet9[email protected]
I'll upload them here first thing in the morning.


----------



## NewWithPidgies (Apr 20, 2015)

Jass SamOplay said:


> With pleasure!
> [email protected]
> I'll upload them here first thing in the morning.


I hope you've received my email.


----------



## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)




----------



## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)




----------



## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Can anyone see the pics?

Hi A,
You have high flyer pigeons. The white one kalduma is a nice bird. Others are too. But the male look quiet worn out.


----------



## NewWithPidgies (Apr 20, 2015)

Grey looks worn out? That's cuz White is always picking on him. And I can't see the pics. I'll be sending other pics soon. In case you haven't noticed, most part of White's tail is black. Does that make him a different breed or a mix breed other than Kalduma? And Can you tell me the speciality of these two breeds? Also, could breeding them the way they've paired be a good idea? Would their mix produce good enough or even better breed? Please answer all my questions. Lol. I'm new to pigeon raising. Infact, I'm new to the world of birds. Ever since I've brought these birds, I'm intrigued. Its so fascinating. I did some research on pigeons and its all so interesting. I hope you'll take the pain to answer all my queries. I'd like to believe in real experiences rather than information on the internet. Thank you ~ Ash.


----------



## NewWithPidgies (Apr 20, 2015)

Oh and I wan't to mention, one day after I brought White's mate, i.e, the day she mated with White, I released her along with White thinking since she's paired up with White, she wouldn't go away leaving her newfound mate. And then suddenly from the top of the roof, she took off and went so far and high that at one point I lost her sight and could see no more of her than a dot. Then slowly again I saw her take a U-turn and start to come back, but then she suddenly turned to the side when she reached halfway and disappeared into a thick forest. My heart sank. I thought I made a terrible mistake by releasing her so early. I kept staring at that direction into the horizon feeling miserable hoping she'd come back. And guess what? She did. She emerged from the other side of the forest and came back after about 5 minutes and landed straight on the roof beside White. It was amazing. I'd lost hope. But she came back! Just... Wow! I didn't think she would even remember the way having spent just a day and a night in her new home. Besides, she'd gone too far somewhere she'd never been before. She could've lost her way. She could've wandered off. Or she could've just choosen to take the chance to never come back to her new home since she wasn't familiar and attached to it. I was amazed. And I must say I'm so impressed by her flying skills. I'd never seen any of my other pigeons do that. None of my older pigeons have ever done that. None went so far. None ever took off for so long and so high. All the flying my other pigeons ever did was leap fly from roof to roof or from roof to ground and vice versa. It was magnificent, the way she was flying. She flew so well! I watched in awe.


----------

