# I just want people to know what is going on in London.



## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

I do not want to bring bad news to people, but on the other hand I want people to know what is going on in my borough and I suspect in many places in London.
I went for my usual walk today, We have had several days of heavy rain and it is getting colder by the day. For the first time I am seeing pigeons who look weak and are reluctant to fly. A lot of them are just sitting in one place and don't move unless you absolutely force them by walking too close. I have not seen the pigeons like this before.
Every pigeon that I have taken in recently with string injuries has been thin, always their keel bones are sticking out. At this time of year they should have some fat on them ready to go into the winter. I have seen the woodpigeons feeding on the red berry's that are on a number of the bushed in the area, but the feral pigeons do not seem to eat these berry's.

The council is currently trying to change the tenancy agreement so that any tenant caught feeding pigeons in the local area is risking losing their home. I am fighting to stop this change going through but I have very little back up.

Because the council has slowly put up signs everywhere the pigeons were fed, many of their normal food sources have been cut off. This has been down too quickly and we are going to see dead pigeons all over the place this winter. I am also finding it hard to keep my little collection of pigeons down outside my house. Many of the pigeons that have been previous patients often return for a meal here and there. The problem is because all the pigeons are hungry I am getting more pigeons turning up, this will be used as a reason to complain about what I do.

I understand that the pigeon numbers need to be brought down, but there is no need to do it so quickly. If the food sources were SLOWLY reduced the pigeons would gradually move away. I find this agonizing to watch. I very much suspect this will be the last straw for mw, I am looking at council properties to swap for in Dorset, they will be away from the cities and I will be at peace. I have done what I can. I want nothing more to do with a society that thinks it is ok to do this. Birds out in Dorset will have my help if they need it, but I suspect they are much happier out there. London is where the birds need my help, but what can I do if I am continuously threatened with eviction. If I lose my home I will not be able to help them at all. My time in the cities is approaching its end, I cannot fight this battle on my own with no help, and I cannot stay and watch the consequences of what the council is doing because that will make me ill.

Before anyone suggests it, I know a lot of different diseases now, and the pigeons all over the borough have not suddenly come down with some illness. They are reluctant to move because they have no energy because they have not eaten in a long time. I fed as many as I could on my way hoime, but I wonder if I am doing them any good. The sort of people that think this is ok need to all live together in the cities and the rest of us move to the countryside where there is a totally different attitude. I am not talking about an over sentimental attitude to nature, but just and attitude where unnecessary suffering is avoided.

Brian.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Brian...I don't understand how someone caught feeding pigeons can be at risk of loosing their home. Can you show us any written law on that?


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Charis, its nothing to do with any "law". 
In the UK, city councils are responsible for lots of things, including the upkeep of the community and condition of buildings etc. As well as that, they are also responsible for housing. 
They own large quantities of houses that are let out at slightly reduced rents than private landlords. 
In most cities, the overall housing share by the council is far greater than that of private landlords. 
They can change terms of lease/rent agreement to suit their own local requirements if necessary.
To give you a simple example, Traffic problems in Edinburgh are a nightmare, with this in mind, The council gave a private contractor permission to build a new section of housing in one particular area on condition that te houses couldonly be let to "non car owners" and have written into tennancy agreements that in order to become a tennant in that area, you are not allowed to own a car. They have even written in that if you are a tennant and then become a car owner your tennancy becomes null and void.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Ah...so this isn't owned homes, Brian is referring to, but leased or rented apartments or flats.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

Even if you do own your own property, I'm sure you remember Quazar, there was a recent case where an elderly couple were threatened with imprisonment if they did not stop feeding the pigeons. They may have been feeding too many, but still to be threatened with prison for feeding pigeons is a bit over the top. The world is changing.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Well I'm thinking some very unpleasant thoughts about those council people right now, not that doing so will make a difference but honestly...it's people like them that give people a bad reputation.
I'm very sorry, Brian.... heartbreaking.


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## longlive_pigeon (Aug 17, 2012)

Sad to hear the situation in London. This reminds me of what happened in Hong Kong in 2004 when the law banning pigeons feeding was first implemented. The pigeons starved to death and the flock in the territory shrunk over 80%. 

Just want to ask, you mentioned the council. Did that council enacted a law to ban feeding? Or it is quoting other ordinances that feeding birds causing dirtiness is illegal? IS the council persuading people to stop feeding, or the council actually threatens by law enforcement? Only determined feeders can save the poor pigeons....


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

At the moment the council is just putting up signs everywhere telling people not to feed the pigeons, and of course there is never a shortage of people coming out to tell you that you should not be feeding the pigeons because of the sign. What is worse is it seems to be a general fight against nature itself, they are also asking people to take down bird feeders and banning feeding of squirrels.
They are backing that up by now trying to change the tenancy agreement so that any council tenant caught feeding pigeons or squirrels or putting bird feeders out will risk loosing their home.

I'm sure they will think of a way to stop home owners if they find any feeding the wildlife, as I mentioned above their was an elderly couple that was threatened with imprisonment for feeding the wildlife.


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## longlive_pigeon (Aug 17, 2012)

Are there any organizations of feeders in London? I think organizations of some kind may help, so feeders can exchange information and back up each other. It is like that the whole world is against you, but still you have friends in the same line with you. At least you will not feel so isolated...BTW, I only know that feeding is made illegal in Trafalgar and feeding in the rest of London is OKAY....It is sad to know that pigeons in the whole territory is facing the same destiny in Trafalgar..... Is there an organization SAVE THE TRAFALGAR SQUARE PIGEONS? Is it still running? The website has not been updated for quite a period of time...


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

I have in fact written to them, but the lady who acknowledged my email said she has 500 emails a day to answer, and I am still waiting for a reply. I hope to make some new contacts there. They may be trying to cope with a general clamp down all over London. I am very close to moving out of London, I think people do not care about abuse to the pigeons and I cannot stop them by myself. If I stay here and watch what is coming it will make me ill and I will be unable to help anyone.


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## Pigeonsill (Jun 21, 2012)

I think that the root of the problem is that feral pigeons do not have the public sympathy they deserve. There needs to be some type of campaign to raise awareness and sympathy for feral pigeons as homeless birds, and their bumblefoot tragedy.

Maybe insisting that the councils feed the pigeons in a controlled fashion might find some sympathy (unlikely with Red Ken, though, IMHO).


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## Pigeonsill (Jun 21, 2012)

BHenderson said:


> ..........................., but still to be threatened with prison for feeding pigeons is a bit over the top. The world is changing.


Yes,.....how Nazi-like.....


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## Pigeonsill (Jun 21, 2012)

*Bumblefoot tragedy*

OK,here goes.....

I often carry peanuts for feral pigeons that reside near my workplace in Dublin.
On O'Connell Street (main street) tonight when going home and waiting for the bus I saw this pigeon, limping badly. It's red leg was disfigured by black coloured chunks, so I dropped a couple of dozen peanuts very close, which were eaten.

I just have to wonder, what can be done, what could city councils do to stop bumblefoot?

What does it take to get them to realise that pigeons should be a type of protected species?


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## spiritflys (Aug 6, 2012)

*I Just want everyone to know what's going on....*

Hi, BHenderson. I am so sorry to hear of your woes with the Council. Yes, I have heard before how powerful they have become in London and it is absolutely outrageous. This in a country that helped shape democracy? What has happened to Londoners? It is like a kind of group insanity, isn't it? That is what bullies do, as my family doctor told me a child, "you will never see a bully standing alone......they like to hang around and form GROUPS, preferrably fives and sixes....'" (he was from London, ironically). I am wondering if you could get some help and support from talking with Pigeon and Dove Rescue in the UK, they have some good activists around the areas there, including London. Maybe some group action would work. I am a member of this activist group, and I know Meijec who used to be with PiCAS UK is very good at organizing groups of pigeon lovers to meet and be heard. Also, Cynthia Roberts Buttersworth is very good at using law to slow down or even stop a cull or giving information out to members or councils that will quell ignorance What do you think of trying to get support and advice from them? At the very least, you will get allot of good suggestions from others who have dealt with the various councils in London. All the best, I truly feel for you.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

Sorry for the late reply to some of these posts. I am really annoyed at the sneaky way Hammersmith and Fulham council is going about this pigeon feeding thing. They know they cannot get away with an outright ban as this will attract attention, so they have been putting up individual signs in all the areas where the pigeons get fed regularly. They are following this by now changing the tenancy agreement so all council tenants will be effectively banned from feeding pigeons. That only leaves the private tenants who will take the trouble to find area's where it is ok to feed the pigeons and regularly feed them.
I am already having trouble with the pigeons that I feed, because there is almost no food being put out for them now I am getting large numbers turning up for the little bit of food that I put out. This is focusing attention on me and will make it easy for the council to argue that I am a nuisance and shut me down.
I am trying to make contact with the Trafalgar Square people but I have had no reply. I have a good solicitor but she thinks the best outcome I could expect is to be allowed to keep some of the pigeons as pets, and I must not admit that I am treating the pigeons. What a joke, you cannot admit to compassionate acts towards animals anymore because you could lose your home.

I would be interested in contact details of anyone who is active in the area of pigeon rescue, especially if they may be able to help me mount a fight against the proposed changes to the tenancy agreement.

If this goes through, I am afraid I will not be able to stay in London, I will have to move. If I stay in London I will not be able to stop myself trying to help wounded pigeons and I will lose everything. Me and the pigeons will end up keeping each other company on the streets.

Brian.


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## longlive_pigeon (Aug 17, 2012)

Yes the signs are very troublesome...They will stir up people's hatred towards pigeons....Even for those who do not use to be hostile to the pigeons, once they see the sign their perception will be affected. My friends use to destroy those signs...If it is made of paper, tear it off. If metal, use a saw. Though they risk the charge of vandalism, removing the signs really seems help reduce no. of complaints, hence reducing the pressure on the departments to take action to stop feeding. 

The council is really calcuated to invent those terms in the tenant agreement...If they enact a new law, it will be very controversial. But if secretly added in the tenant agreement, few people will notice and thus resistance will be minimal. 'Devil is in the Details'. I have a question. Shouldn't be the tenant agreement remains unchanged once I reside in?! If the agreement can be arbitrarily changed afterwards, it is so unfair to the tenants.... When I moved in, you did not have such rules. If you have such rules at that time, I would not have been moved in... You should not force me to accept those rules that are imposed years after I have moved in...


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## Pigeonsill (Jun 21, 2012)

Thank you Longlive_pigeon. I do not know what else to say.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

Regarding the rules changed in the London, UK councils, they do have to follow some rules if they want to change the tenancy agreement. One of the rules is they must consult with the tenants. My solicitor has suggested that I complain about the change in the tenancy agreement about pigeons, making it clear that I already have pet pigeons. Pigeon fanciers have been around a long time and we hope they will have to make provision for my pets. The down side is I am likely to be the only one who is complaining about this. I hope there are others who complain also. You cannot even use the 'tenants and residents association'(TRA) because the leaders are on the side of the council so you cannot rely on a fair hearing. I would have liked to spread the word through the TRA, but I do not trust them.

I have put in my complaint about the change to the tenancy rules, and my solicitor says they must consult as part of the conditions to change the tenancy agreement. All we can do is cross our fingers that they do not come down too heavily on the pigeons.

I will be honest with people. I have been fighting this battle with the council for the best part of a year now, and they seem to keep finding ways to pick on me. I am not confident that I am going to win this battle. I have put my name down on the Homeswap list, I am going to try and get a place in Dorset where I have some friends. I do not think the birds out there will be in as bad a condition as the birds in London, but if I am stopped from helping the birds in London it will end up making me depressed to watch their suffering. If I lose I will move to Dorset.

Brian.


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## spiritflys (Aug 6, 2012)

Will you be able to place your pigeons if you do move to Dorset? Too bad that London Town may be losing a good person like you who took care of many a sick or injured pijj. Wish there were more like you, not less. Oh, if only they knew the joy and beauty of inteaction with pigeons, instead of going to war with them. We know something and experience something they cannot comprehend. Sad


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## BethanyElodi (Jul 10, 2012)

Has anyone heard of Ovocontrol P - birth control for pigeons? I'm a fan of neutering dogs & cats. What about pigeons?

BHenderson, if this stuff is humane & works - maybe the city would make a deal with you. You feed & care for the birds, & also make sure they get birth control.

Here is a video I came across:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkDXDQuaETI&feature=youtube_gdata_player


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

BethanyElodi said:


> Has anyone heard of Ovocontrol P - birth control for pigeons? I'm a fan of neutering dogs & cats. What about pigeons?
> 
> BHenderson, if this stuff is humane & works - maybe the city would make a deal with you. You feed & care for the birds, & also make sure they get birth control.
> 
> ...


It is not licensed in the UK, and due to concerns about how it is used (including other accessability by other birds) it never will be.


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## BethanyElodi (Jul 10, 2012)

Yes I understand, Quazar.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

Depending how things pan out spiritflys, I hope to take most of the pigeons with me. Some of the pigeons I am treating could be released, but I am wondering if I might be doing them a favor by taking them down to Dorset on one of the many trips that will be made and releasing them there? The other pigeons that have injuries that preclude them from being released, I hope to keep with me. If the council are really awkward and insist I get rid of the pigeons quickly, I may need some help housing them. I really hope it does not come to this. I'm sure my solicitor should be able to buy me some time.

Brian.


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## spiritflys (Aug 6, 2012)

Re ovaControl, you must see: An Introduction to the OvaControl The Bird Population Control System on UTube (an interview). It speaks for itself. A must see.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

spiritflys said:


> Re ovaControl, you must see: An Introduction to the OvaControl The Bird Population Control System on UTube (an interview). It speaks for itself. A must see.


Is irrellevant since it is unlicensed in the UK therefore illegal.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

How is it irrelevant, Just because something is not licensed does not mean its irrelevant to a discussion. It may not be able to be used... sure, but people should still be able to learn, discuss and state opinions on something without it being written off as irrelevant. Maybe it would be a good solution.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

NZ Pigeon said:


> How is it irrelevant, Just because something is not licensed does not mean its irrelevant to a discussion. It may not be able to be used... sure, but people should still be able to learn, discuss and state opinions on something without it being written off as irrelevant. Maybe it would be a good solution.


It may be good for discussion in another thread, but it is irrellevant in this one as it is not able to be implemented for legal reasons, so in this case CANNOT be a solution, good or otherwise.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

I am sure in the past people have been educated of new ways, sold them to the authorities as a solution which has lead to them being legalised and implemented.

Just because something is currently unlicensed or "illegal" does not prevent it from being licensed which would inturn make it legal and look at that.... we have a possible solution.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

NZ Pigeon said:


> I am sure in the past people have been educated of new ways, sold them to the authorities as a solution which has lead to them being legalised and implemented.
> 
> Just because something is currently unlicensed or "illegal" does not prevent it from being licensed which would inturn make it legal and look at that.... we have a possible solution.


Untill it is licensed, which in its current situation of use and distribution, is very highly improbable therefore it is NOT a possible solution.
http://www.picasuk.com/ovocontrol_press_release_6_8_07_v1.pdf
http://www.pigeoncontrolresourcecentre.org/html/reviews/ornitrol-ovocontrol-oral-contraceptives-for-pigeons.html


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

This is rather a pointless product for the situation in hand. The flock in my local borough is already small, I think the council would rather there were non at all. Its not as if you walk down the street and run into flocks of birds, you occasionally see a couple on the pavement picking at some crisps or something. People over here have a dislike for pigeons and would rather there was none. This is why I have such sympathy for them. Mankind does stupid things only to live to regret it later.


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## spiritflys (Aug 6, 2012)

BHenderson, just a suggestion, but it looks like a situation that you will have to handle as it unfolds. Surely a time will come when the council will expect to hear from you and even if they are closed minded and already have their minds made up, that would be the time to pass on some information to the council about the misconceptions about pigeons being disease carriers, that some are in fact your pets, and if they insist you get rid of them, you could argue that you are their caretaker and are responsible for their well-bieng, just as a dog or cat owner would be, and it may take some time for you to find homes for them. If you decide you are going to move to Dorset anyway rather than watch the outcome of your pigeons starving (certainly I understand how you feel!), I would think,"at this point, I have nothing to lose," and once I had secured new lodgings I would do an information blitz all around that building and put up info in the parks around it, exposing the underhandedness of that council and their hatred for a harmless species. I would stress that URBAN WILDLIFE IS HERE TO STAY, AND PEOPLE HAVE TO FIND WAYS TO RESIDE WITH IT, RATHER THAN KEEP GOING ON QUESTS TO ERADICATE IT, WHICH DO NOT WORK. I always include pictures of pigeon owners interacting with their pet pigeons in my posters, both children, adults and older people, and pictures of famous people like Elizabeth Taylor with pigeons, Mike Tyson, Bob Barker, etc. At least in that way, you left London as a spokesperson for the pigeons of London.


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## spiritflys (Aug 6, 2012)

BHenderson, in a telephone conversation which I had with Mr, Guy Merchant, the Exec. Dir. of PiCAS, he told me that unfortunately, in his opinion, we may see the day, especially in England, when you will NO LONGER SEE pigeons around, as the war upon them is aiming at total eradication, rather than using the artificial dove-coting method of pigeon control which is Guy's brainchild........sad. Very sad.....


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## nancybird (Jan 30, 2011)

Yes it is very sad.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

spiritflys this is very sad, especially coming from a source like PiCAS. I'm afraid it just confirms what I have been feeling and telling people who will listen for some time. This is why I have got to such a drastic position to move out to the countryside. I have had enough of those in power, they are not the correct people to be doing the jobs they do and everyone is so busy trying to make money they are missing what is really important. I'm afraid I do not want to be in a situation where I see a sick animal and I am not able to help. Some of us are just made that way, but apparently we don't count, and I don't think they count any more. I will move to the outskirts of a city or town that is more integrated with the countryside and I will continue the habits I have started here. I no longer read newpapers, I no longer watch telly. I listen to a lot of radio but I pick internet rafio with no adverts and no news. I am much happier as I do not spend my time getting all worked up about things I cannot change.

I hope you find what you are looking for as well. Thank you for this bit of news as it just confirms what I already felt in my heart!!!

Brian.


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## spiritflys (Aug 6, 2012)

*I Just Want People To know What is going on in Londaon*

Yes, the councils are very powerful in England, but there is a man, named Stadttaube Kowalsky in Germany who, step by step, little by little, formed a group of pigeon advocates and actually just pushed through a bill in the european council for pigeon rights, that they have: (a) a right to live in peace; (b) that they are a national heritage, and have a right to our care (c) that mistreatment of a pigeon should be made illegal and violation of European law (d) that dove-cotes be set up and parks, where the pigeon can now reside in peace. You can visit Stadttube Kowalsky on the Internet, he is also a member of Pigeon & Dove Rescue. My point is, he proves that we have to keep on fighting, but also proves the need TO FORM powerful lobbying groups. The battle to ensure pigeon rights will not be won by any one person, it will take group action. All the best to you BHenderson, and keep us posted on your battle with the council, and life after London!


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

I may try and make contact with this Stadttaube Kowalsky, If such a law has been passed in europe, I may be able to use it to head off what the council is trying to force through. I need to talk to him or one of his helpers to see how the situation stands. I do not want to abandon the pigeons if there is a way I can do it without making myself homeless.

I walked down the main shopping street in Hammersmith today, and I saw all the pigeons gathered at the point where they are usually fed by passers by or by the cleaners who will break up food they find on the floor for the pigeons. There is a great big sign there saying 'do not feed the pigeons'. I do not know if it is enforceable, but it drives me mad that I cannot pop in the pound shop and buy a bag of seed that would fill most of their stomachs. In this cold weather you can see the pigeons looking around for the kind people that used to come and feed them. They are cold and hungry and I hate being part of a system that thinks its ok to leave these pigeons suffering.
I already have a small flock that I try to feed around my estate quietly, and I think as long as the numbers do not get out of control most of the neighbors will let it be. If I take on a public feeding of the pigeons directly under that sign I may be providing the council with all the 'unreasonable' behavior that they need to shut me down in court. I feel terrible about all these situations, but I want to be able to do some good. If I just go against the council on everything they try to do I will not last long, and will probably end up homeless.
I just wish I had contact with more people who could advise me about what is the best thing for me to do. As I mentioned, I may well email Mr Stadttaube Kowalsky and see what type of reply I get. Thank you for the information spiritflys.


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## spiritflys (Aug 6, 2012)

Okay, BHenderson. All the best. Breaks my heart to imagine the visual you are describing of the hungry pijjies waiting for someone to take mercy on them. But, what can you do? I hope you do visit Stadttaube Kowalsky online. He has also posted some wonderful videos online about setting up artificial dovecotes, and about misconceptions about feral pigeons.


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