# 2 day old baby found in Sydney Australia



## poochee (Aug 30, 2005)

Hello,
all pigeon lovers, I was never a dedicated one till I found this little babe. I hope he is going to make it. He was there on a wall looking as if dead, and then it moved and stretched its neck.
I put it in my hands and it felt reaaaaly cold.
Then I took it home. I have read your site and got lots of ideas on how to keep it alive. I will endeavour and will post pictures. please do advise, i do think it looks healthy and I am hopeful to help this little guy live on.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Poochee, 

Wow, what a lucky little chick to have been found by you...and just in the nick of time as well!

This is a very young baby pigeon, perhaps 2 or 3 days old. It's not going to be easy to raise such a small baby I'll warn you. Can you tell us what you're doing for him...what you're feeding, what you're using to feed and how you're keeping him warm?


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## Jiggs (Apr 1, 2005)

He looks healthy - have you found the threads on syringing him for feed?


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## Jiggs (Apr 1, 2005)

And you better win the rugby on Saturday!!!!


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hello and thankyou for helping this tiny newborn

If you haven't already found this, here is the link that will take you to the handfeeding a baby from day 1, that is absolutely crucial to needs of newbies.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=9918

Make sure the baby is kept warm on heating pad, if you haven't done it already, you can put the heating pad under the blanket. Also, keep baby free from air drafts.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Poochee,


Keep him warm at all times...warm like your wrist is warm.

Cut off the bottom half of a regular people baby nipple, use that for him to feed out of.

Make formula out of any commercial Baby Bird poweder, such as Roudybush Squab Powder, KayTee 'exact', LeFabers, or as may be...and add to it a little fresh bottle Olive Oil, a little probiotics, some chlorella, some miso, some powdered Sea Weed or Purple Dulce....serve body temperature allways, and make to the consistancy of a Milkshake.

Do not use a microwave to warm the formula. Instead, warm it in a cup in a pan of hot water.

Gently massage the Baby's Beak with warm moist finger tips to invite it to 'nuzzle' to be fed. When it nuzzles, gently guide it's Beak into the 3/4rs full cut-off end of the Nipple...gently pinch the Nipple so that the top edges of it are against the sides of his Beak. Hold it at a tilt to the Baby can eat from it comfortably.

Observe his Crop, you will be able to see it filling up as the food is eaten...little meals, and often...

An electric Heating pad in a box, set to low...with a towell on it, and a light shallow bowl on that with soft rumpled cloths set in it...no drafts from air conditining or breezes...when he wishes to poop, he will wish to move his l ittle butt over the side of what he construes to be the nest proper, so a small shallow bowl defined nicely for him that peramiter...if this is not warm enough for him, set the pad to medium and have it instead under the Box, and test that. The Baby needs to be about what for us is our body temperature or so, that is, HE needs to be about that warm, ragardless of what the heating pad proper is as itself.

Do not feed a chilled or other than active warm Baby.

Any idea where the Nest is or why he was out of it?

Ideally, if the nest is intact, and the parents or other sibling ( usually there are two) are still normally there and occupied, you can put him back at some opportune moment or other.

Good luck...


Phil
Las Vegas


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## poochee (Aug 30, 2005)

*Day 3*

I fed him/her baby bird milk formula from the pet shop. I like the syringe idea of feeding but can't find a fine tube- so now I am using a syringe and trying to open its beak each time to feed him. He likes the food, but the feeding process is very slow. Out of nervousness, I might be squeezing its littlebody a bit hard.

I like the nipple idea- but can't visualise it can you send me a picture? I also have no idea how much I should feed it. I look at its crop and I can see the food.

I also like the recipe you provided but not sure how to get these ingredients.

Exactly how likely do you think that he is going to survive?

At the site where I found him, there is no sight of even a tree or birds or nest.

So its rather strange that he is there at all- Maybe a gust of wind? Its a highrise office- so Maybe the nest is on top of the roof.

If I am so lucky, and get him to survive for 30 days- I may let him go a a park- but i guess its early days yet.

For a place to sleep in- he is in a bowl with cotton wool and a towelette on top. I am using a regular desk lamp and a red cap over it to keep the temperature higher. I am thinking about getting a small fish tank and a red bulb. let me know what you think.

Where can I get a small heating pad?

I am at work and feeding it only onlce every 3-4 hours- Is that ok?

Thank you all for writing in.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Poochee, 

Make sure that whatever you're using to feed him, it's kept very watery at this stage. It has to be a very thin mixture so that he can digest it. You should feed whenever his little crop empties. For a chick this age, it's normally every 2 hours but watch his crop closely to make sure that it's not staying full or getting hard. It's best to keep the feedings small at this time with more frequent feedings rather than big feedings spaced far apart. 

He might have been a victim of some kind of predator, perhaps a crow, magpie or other bird snatched him from his nest but was scared away when you found him.

This chick's chances of survival depends on quite a few factors, whether or not he's sick to begin with, if he was injured in anyway before you found him, his diet and crop functions etc. Does your baby bird formula contain added enzymes, probiotics ?

Good work though and keep us posted


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi poochee...


Where are you?

Anyway, Baby Pigeons or Doves are endemicaly or instinctually disposed to insert their Beaks into the open Beak of their Parent for being fed.

They will find the experience of the 'nipple' to resemble this closely enough for them to be happy...as lng as one gently pinch the upper sides of it so it is gently against the sides of their Beaks.

Any drug store will have Electric Heating Pads ranging in price frm four or five dollars, to a few times that.

Almost any Health Food Store will have the other nongrocery store ingredients I mentioned. 

If you are in some extremely rural or isolated area as some respondents have been, and we have no way to know this, or, if you are even in the United States for that matter, you may have to purchase these items in sme nearbye town or village or urban area, or, get them on-line by doing 'google' searches to find sellers relatively near to you to save time on shipping, or as best as can be found anyway.

Misu can be had at Oriental markets, or here in Las Vegas, which is hardly a sophisticated place in terms of it's food, in the cooler sections of any Grocery Store.

Chlorella, Goji Berries, Purple Dulce, ProBiotics, Hemp Seed Meal, Pea Protean Powder ( really, these are more like what I would use, making them into a powder all together in a kitchen blender, with a little Olive Oil and Misu added afterward when I add the Water to make it into a thin Milkshake consistancy, and likely I would not even bother with any comercial powder) and so on may be had of most any Health Food Store and are good ingredients with which to make formula or to add to Commercial powders all the way untill the Bird is full eating on it's own.

I do not know what you mean by "Pet Store Bird Milk" from my experience with pet supplies or petsmart offerings...can you give more detail on that?

Olive Oil should be available at many kinds of Grocery Stores....as would Corn Meal which would be for their diet in another week and a half or so.

At that time also they may begin to have fresh ground Seeds, made into a coarse powder in any regular kitchen blender as a cmponent of their formula.


For now, as Brad mentions above, small meals often, and continuous warmth and no drafts.

Aquariums are not good...

Use a small box on it's side...on a table or dresser top. ON a Heating Pad...with a small Bowl in the box with some soft rumpled cloth in the Bowl. Drape a light cloth over the open side of the box...adjust the setting of the heating pad so the interir of the box, the bowl and the baby all seem wrist temperature 'warm'.

A warm (enough but not TOO warm) Baby will be a comfortable Baby..and a chllled Baby will be sluggish or torpid.

The Baby is not going to go anywhere and is inately disposed to stay put in whatever it construes it's nest to be..there is no need to constrain it in any way. There is a need to protect it from indoor drafts, and to keep it warm.

Bear in mind normally the parents would be gently sitting on it, or next to it at times, to protect it, shelter it and to keep it warm, letting it mosey out a little when it wishes to poop over the side.


Phil
Las Vegas


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## poochee (Aug 30, 2005)

*feeding night and Day?*

I am going to get the heat pad, hope we have them in Australia. 
Is it too late to give him Yoghurt, as someone suggested?

I am trying the nipple thing too.

He looks skinny- so I guess I am not feeding him enough?

Should I feed him at night too? every 2 hours?

I am using this bird formula: 
Avione
Hand Rearing Formula.
Complete breeders diet

Wheat, Maize, rice, full fat soybean, Legumes, Soybean oil meal, DI Calcium Phosphate, Dextrose, Monohydrate, Vitamins and minerals.

It does say I need to add anything else. Let me know.

Thanks


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## poochee (Aug 30, 2005)

*Breathing heavily*

He seems to be breathing heavily through his beak after the last feed. Is this ok?


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## poochee (Aug 30, 2005)

*Ok again*

He stopped drawing deep breaths- Maybe it was indigestion or he needed to burp?

Anyways you guys out there in the States and Canada- You will be enlightened to know that I can't get a heat pad for the bird at a drug store or a department store. I guess we just don't have them in Australia.

So its back to bean bag heating (tedious and unreliable) and a lamp with a red cap over it. 

He weighs exactly 2grams


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi poochee,


Sorry, I am blind...your initial thread title says Sydney but somehow I missed that....Lol...

Electric heating Pads should be avialable throught the fartherst reaches of Cristiandom, and elsewhere.

I myself would elect Misu instead of Yoghurt, but opinions vary...

These Birds do not posess the enzymes to deal well with lactose or cow-dairy...

Likely the baby-bird-powder you have is fairly good, and I would still add the other things to it.

The finest powder you can make from fresh grains will be better than some powder that has sat for a year or more in a jar on a shelf in a store.

Uhhhhh...what else...

I tend to feed off and on as long as I am awake, for whatever those hours are...

In Nature of course, Babys are fed only during daylight, but in their case this means shortly after dawn, to around sunset.

Babys eat sleep, nap, peep, and poop...and I think it is fine if they are fed at night if one wants to...especially if they are peeping or thirsty or interested.

Pinch the nipple ( the cut off narrow partion of one) gently so it is against the sides of their Beak...make sure the food is warm, 'wrist' temperature...hold the nipple end at an angle for their ease and comfort...fill it about 3/4rs or a little more full but not quite 'full' since when they insert their Beak it will spill over otherwise and make things messier...

Move with them which they will guide subtley, as far as their own rythum for swallowing/drinking/gobbleing...they will want to pull their head in and then move it out again in a sort of cadence...as they get bigger and their zbeak gets bigger yu can graduate to a full un-cut Nipple, but maybe cut off the flange from it.



Write down info from the posts previous for reference...do not use a microwave to warm the food/formula...

Feed every two hours or less or as the Baby's crop has emptied...offer plain tepid water between meals...

 

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

poochee said:


> Anyways you guys out there in the States and Canada- You will be enlightened to know that I can't get a heat pad for the bird at a drug store or a department store. I guess we just don't have them in Australia.
> 
> *So its back to bean bag heating (tedious and unreliable)* and a lamp with a red cap over it.


Hello Poochee,
Sorry to hear you were unable to locate a heating pad.  
The 'rice/bean' bag style of heating is generally used as an emergency substitute. I have used this method when transporting a bird. 
When used for an extended period of time it can be kind of a pain, in that it needs to be reheated often, but it can also be a lifesaver.  

Cindy


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## poochee (Aug 30, 2005)

*latest pix*

Here are th new pix of him- can I tell its sex yet? I have forgotten how to post new pix...pleaase bear with me.. I need to go to slepp now its abig day at work tomorrow.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

If you have a small light wool blanket (a small scrap will do) that might also be of use to keep him warm. Make sure the little feet are neatly tucked under him. A slightly rough surface, like a towel, will help keep his feet from slipping out from under him.

You should add some children's humane grade probiotics to the baby bird formula if it doesn't have any, it is extremely important the first 4 days of a newborn baby pigeons life. You can pick up some at the health food store, in powder form.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi poochee, 



Your post about the 'breathing' must have slipped in as I was writing my response...I did not see it untill just now when I was scanning back through.

This is not good...

How are you feeding him?

One must ensure that no liquid shall enter their wind-pipe...

Too, they can 'pant' if over-heated...

I am amazed that the Electric Heating Pad seems unknown and unavailable in Australia...!

I would never have expected that.


Phil
Las Vegas


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## poochee (Aug 30, 2005)

*very sorry*

My dog got to the babe- was going to feed it at lunch time- and its missing from the bowl, found him at the steps- I am so maaaad!!! 

He moved but is not looking that great any more. His head looks bruised but no blood. He can still move and it is soo sad. I am so angry at myself that I didn't aniticipated this.

Till this morning he looked great and is doing well. Is the best thing for me to do now is to watch him and keep feeding it? Any advise??? I am so sorry.


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## poochee (Aug 30, 2005)

*probiotics*

Just fed him, he looks eager to eat and ate a lot. I just got my hand on some probiotics- should i feed this to him next feed? Is there anything I should be worried about or look out for after the "Bailey the dog" incident?


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## poochee (Aug 30, 2005)

*the bruise*

He is abit red behind the ears still- but I guess if he can still stretch to eat his food, he maust be okay?


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Did you check for any puncture wounds? if there are they will need to be treated.
For now keep doing what you're doing and lets hope for the best. Hope there are no internal injuries.

Reti


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

poochee said:


> Just fed him, he looks eager to eat and ate a lot. I just got my hand on some probiotics- should i feed this to him next feed? Is there anything I should be worried about or look out for after the "Bailey the dog" incident?


You can add the probiotics to the baby formula immediately. It will improve digestion and assimilation for this teeny one, and give it the necessary gut bacteria that babies this young don't have.

Is there a break in the skin? Do you know of an avian vet who is "pigeon friendly" where you might have the baby checked? Or a rehabber?


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## poochee (Aug 30, 2005)

there are no punctures, he just seems a bit red around the head, but it's cleared up.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Poochee, 

Getly blot him with warm damp soft cloth to remove whatever saliva may be on him...and keep him warm of course...

Get the 'pro-biotics' as mentioned above too...get that happeing for him a.s.a.p.

Please consider some of the ingredients for his formula also for his needed nutrition to approximate as near as possible, what it should be.

See if there is in fact some possibility of obtainig an Electric Heating Pad somewhere...

They must exist there in spite of your initial discouragements in finding one..!


Lol...

Good luck...!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## poochee (Aug 30, 2005)

*not looking that great?*

These recent pictures of him, shows that his head is not always in an upright position, please see previous images to compare- 
often lolling to a side when sleeping- not sure if its normal. He is getting messy as food is covering his body. I am trying to clean him with a cotton swap. But the food is sticky to its body- so not with much success. Does it matter that he doesn't look that great right now? I don't want to stress him unescessarily.

I have also a picture of his belly- Is this normal? I am not sure what the dog has damaged. His claws seems a bit red and blue too.

He is still eating and responding to the nipple idea.

















By the way i am giving him 1/2 a capsule of probiotic right now- is that too little? too much?


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## poochee (Aug 30, 2005)

*Biloxi and all*

I am so sorry to know that you have so much touble to contend with in the US,
I am only hopeful that what needs to be learnt is learnt. As vast a country that you have, as many cultures that live there and as many promises that is taken for granted. Should it there not be a munute of faith, that all should be loved by the living as the dead could not no longer save us all.

I believe in love and care and if we could all exhibit it against all odds.
Life above all else. A chinese saying prompts me to say: all man are born kind.

And through out trageidies this is true,

Hang on in there...life is very important whether you are a christian or not. Pray for love and hope.

I f ever this one lives I will call it katrina, one reason for the way you have shown love at such a time. She never meant death. It's only nature.
poochee


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Thank you for your kind wishes and thoughts in regard to the tragedy in our gulf states. It is a disastor of epic proportions and we must all help and do what we can.

Thank you for the update of the youngster and pictures and your wonderful care of him..

I do think, you need to find a small bowl to put him in to keep his feet under him. They look like they are starting to splay, so the neccessity to confine his legs and feet under him is immediate, as it can be corrected at this point. Any round bowl with a flat or slightly curved bottom will do. Just fill it with lots of paper towels and soft tissue and make it small enough to where he can sit in it comfortably, but that his legs and feet are folded neatly under him. It is easy to do now, later it will be harder to correct. 

Also, he needs to lean his head up against something so that it doesn't hang down, you can help support it with putting something under the one side like a soft little towel to keep it somewhat upright. 

Under normal circumstances the mother is able to help keep the head upright, as the baby usually nestles his head right up between her tummy feathers.

Thank you for your imediate attention to these matters.


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## poochee (Aug 30, 2005)

*Looking fine??*

Thanks for the advice.
The little one seems to be doing well. I know internal injury may still be a problem. Can anyone tell me that the picture of his underside is Ok?

He is eating well so far. AND I found a heating pad after all. So there is heating pads in Australia. Tell people to go to David Jones or Myers and ask for breville heating pads. It's not that warm and it is expensive too. But It does let me sleep nights thinking he/she is going to do ok.

Any advice on the probiotics?
Is it too much or too little a probelm?
At the moment I am mixiing his food with a full capsule but onlu one fifth is really eaten, should I give more ? or is this enough?

I used old t-shirts and he seems happier than just dry towels and I am propping his head up. I am also drenching his body with warm water to make an attempt to clean him up.

Tell me if I am doing the wrong thing- i make sure he is warmed after a drench of warm water.

Now his toes are still pretty red and dark looking and doesn't seem to be too active is this ok?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi there,

Thank you for being so concerned and caring for the baby. You are doing a great job for this teeny one.

It is hard to tell from the picture if he is injured, as the picture is a little blurry, I am concerned about the dark area, is that bruising around the bottom?

How much is the youngster eating now? About a pinch of probiotics in the formula, if he is eating just 5 ml's. Just a tiny bit less than 1/8 of a teasp. if 10 mls.

You should just dab the bird with warm water on a paper towel, and dry off. He is really too young to be drenched. I'm glad you have the heating pad to keep him warm. Just be sure that no cold air gets on him at any time, pigeons cannot handle air drafts especially babies.

I'm still concerned about the allignment of the legs and feet, make sure they stay under him in sitting position. His legs are still at that "rubber" looking stage, as they will start developing more in a week, he will not use them at all for now. The main concern at his age, is that they stay neatly tucked under him. The toes do look a little red, is it possible for you to take him to an avian vet and get him checked out soon?


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## poochee (Aug 30, 2005)

*crop not empty*

I noticed that his crop is not emptying as much as it was before. I am not sure why, it is still soft and supple. Should I wait longer between feeds?

Is this a bad sign?- as it seems to take longer to empty his crop tehn before.

Feet are well stucked now.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi poochee, 


Make sure the Baby itself is actually around 'wrist' temperature.

If chilled, their digestion ceases and the contents of their Crops will sour and start to ferment.

Basic Electric Heating pads here, with three settings, are about what a cheap restaurant sandwhich would cost, or, about one pack ofbetter Cigarettes would cost...bing between 4 and 5 dollars u.s.

Better more expensive ones exist, but these cheapies, rubber impregnated cloth, work well and are resistant to spills and so on.

Uhhhhhh...nothing you can do if any bruises or mild bleeding under the skin or other, but these little ones are known to be quite resillient for getting over such things.

Make sure the food is 'body temperature' and warm it to be so in a cup in a pan of hot water...make sure not to use a microwave oven...

Get some clean twigs and layer them for the bottom of his 'nest' for his little feets to have something to grip on under him...have his little Nest be some shallow small pan or bowl he can poke his little butt over the side of to poop.

I forgot, how are you feeding him?

...cut down Baby Nipple?

Syringe with a "X" cut diaphram?

Other?

Anyway, as the last post mentions, no more baths or drenching...just try and keep the food spills to a minimum and if needed, blot gently with a moist bit of kleenex or somethig immediately after feeding.

 
Best wishes!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

poochee said:


> I noticed that his crop is not emptying as much as it was before. I am not sure why, it is still soft and supple. Should I wait longer between feeds?
> 
> Is this a bad sign?- as it seems to take longer to empty his crop tehn before.
> 
> Feet are well stucked now.


Make sure the baby is warm at all times, as Phil has mentioned.

Wait for the crop to empty before you feed him again, he should be fed every 4 hours, about 10 mls.


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## poochee (Aug 30, 2005)

*red feet*

I noticed that the pigeons around here have red feet, I am guessing the redness in its feet is natural?

Thanks for Sara's pictures at the loft- the day by day snapshots are very helpful. I think the baby is doing well compared to those daily shots.


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## poochee (Aug 30, 2005)

*feeding method*

A cut off nipple placed over its beak and then when it automatically opens its beak- I try to syringe in as much as possible.

I wish they have bibs for little birds- ...May try and make one tomorrow.
 

The heating pad I got has only 2 settings , and is in sheep skin- cost me 56 dollars!!

But its worth it- he has been very cosy since.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi poochee,


The Baby will be happy to eat FROM a 'Nipple' without any mess to speak of...

Allow it to insert it's Beak into the hollow side of the Baby Nipple...which you fill about 4/5ths of the way with food for him to do so...

For very small or very young Beaks, I tend to cut off the bottom half or so of baby nipple and just use the bottom 5/8ths of an inch or so, then when the Baby grows, I use the whole nipple...

Nothing runs down on to them...they eat much more neatly, especially since their formula is milkshake-consistancy....


Good luck, either way...  


Phil
Las Vegas


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## poochee (Aug 30, 2005)

*He is gone*

Sorry guys,

Thanks for all your support and help. But he died today. He didn't seem to be feeding much and this morning ate a little. Now, his crop has still got food in it, he look peaceful and its hard to believe that he is really dead.

Anyways going to bury him in the front yard. It was nice to have known him and all of you.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Poochee, 

I'm terribly sorry to hear that the little baby didn't make it You really did your absolute best with his care. It really isn't easy to hand rear such a young pigeon and his chances weren't the best to begin with.

It's been a hard week here in our forum and your young one is amoung several that have died

Thank you very much for the time, effort and love you put into helping this little pigeon chick. I'm sure you learned many things from this experience and perhaps if there is a next time, you'll be that much more prepared.

Sorry again and take care of yourself,


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Oh golly...

I am sorry...

Phil
Las Vegas


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## *ADRIAN* (Jun 3, 2005)

*Lucky Guy*

Yo! Dude 

Your The Luckiest To Find A Squab

Peace Man 
*adrian*


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi poochie,

I'm so sorry about the baby.

You did so much for this little one, I know, and we are greatful for that. 

It is very hard for little ones that age to survive, many have tried and haven't been able to do it.

The baby is now at peace and had lots of comfort and care because of you during its short life.

My thoughts and prayers go out to you.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

My condolences on your loss. It's so heartbreaking losing any one of our fine feathered friends, however, especially hard when it's a baby.

Many thanks Poochie, for your concern, care & compasion.

"God Bless you sweet baby pij."

Cindy


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