# 10-12 day old pigeon found ...Help I am new to pigeons



## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

Hi there,

Last night we had a bad storm...plenty water fell. In the morning I found this baby covered in mud barely clinging to life. I rushed to get it warm and gave some water. Few hrs later and after plenty sleep he is up and about but I think he is hungry. What do I do now?

Do i feed him and what and how? Do i put him in the tree ( I will never find the nest, way too many in the tree) and hope his mom finds him? Hell he is filthy and the mud is drying on him, do I try and bath him or just let him be?

Please help?
Thank you

me


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

*Please help....*

Here is a picture of the baby I have found....


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## baileybird (Nov 6, 2017)

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f108/...fe-of-a-pigeon-or-dove-8822.html#/topics/8822

Here’s a link to a guide on how to make sure he’ll survive for a little longer.


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

Hi there,

Thank you so much, I made rice water and he drank a few drops. I put him in a basket I tied and secured to the tree and crossing my fingers the mum will find him. If by dark there is no parents I will fetch him and try and save him myself....in the mean time I am going to read your advice.

Again thank you so much it really means the world to me.

Regards


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

Again thank you so much.... Night time came and his parents did not show up.... so I fetched him....he drank some more rice water and seems to like my son.... Now I guess I am really going to need all the advice I can get...

Thank you so much again....


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## Silverwings (Oct 27, 2017)

I don't think his parents will find him, because once eggs or squabs are moved from their nest the parents do not recognize the, as their own. Try to keep him alive, and I appeticiate your effort!

Good luck!


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

Thank you for the help again.... He seems content after some more rice water and is fast asleep. I been searching the web like a mad person... In the morning I will try and mix some rice and fine oats.... mush it up and see if I can try and get solids in to him.... so scary poor thing now he is stuck with me.....

Thank you


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

This link should give you the help you need.

http://www.pigeonrescue.co.uk/


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

Thank you so much.... I finally just got him to eat a thicker consistency of oats out back of a small syringe.... poor thing was starving I had to cut it short as i was scared to over feed.... Do you know how often do they feed and how much at a time? 

Later i will try and put some bird food through a coffee grinder and paste it up and try...

Like always I am so grateful for the help...


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Links were not working so I removed them.


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

Hi it is me again.... I am a pain in the butt I know, I am having to learn on the job here with a little life at stake. 
I am still trying to get the hang of the crop thing so I waited 4-5 hrs for the next feed just for safety sake. He was complaining like crazy. 
I boiled 2 eggs removed the yolk. I blended the white with water until a milky substance. 
I took roughly 1 tbl spoon and mixed with fine outs and water and fed him about 7-10 ml`s.... he wanted more but i stopped the feed.

Please forgive me for reporting but I beg you to tell me where I am going wrong if I am...
Thank you....


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

He is probably still hungry. When you feed, the crop should feel like a soft pillow, maybe 3/4 full, but not hard. Did you read those links I gave you?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Just tried the links and they don't seem to be working right.
Try this one:

HOW MUCH TO FEED

http://www.urbanwildlifesociety.org/WLR/BabyPij&DuvFeedg.htm


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Here are some videos

Hand-feeding 11-day old baby dove video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1aPHzKZaQE&t=4s

feeding a baby mourning dove
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1s5ZY3U2lKU&t=22s


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

Hey,
I have no idea why but the links are not working.... I am searching and reading every spare moment I get and check in here all the time... thanx.....
http://www.2ndchance.info/WildDoveDiet.htm I found this link pretty helpful but opted for boiled egg white instead on another thread I followed here.....

I am searching like crazy at the moment on the birdies crop and how to tell what is what.... in the mean time I am going with suggested 3-4 feeds a day for a 10 day old that is average 4-5 hrs between right as apparently they do not\or is suggested not to eat after dark till sunrise.... Now that he sees me as a food source, when he sees me he wants food.... so cute... It is so much info to take in and digest I am just so grateful to have yourself and this forum with experience to rely on...


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

A little reward for your time and effort you been putting in here with me..... I hope you can see it....

https://www.facebook.com/marzel.d.f...36591290598&notif_t=video_processed&ref=notif

Me and my new baby...lol


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

No. It won't show the picture. Thanks for trying though.


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

Try this one i added to my youtube
https://youtu.be/TS4_7tpoGRY


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

Hi Jay,

Ok so now I got the food under control I think.... My next concern is water.... I been dropping water on his beak and letting him open his mouth to take it in. Today I put a balloon over a cut off syringe and fed water like that. Not a easy task I tell you. 

My question is does he need water? and how often? My main concern is how to give it, is what I am doing ok or is there a better way? I see some people dipping the head so the beak goes into the water. But their birds are a little bigger. My improvised way works but is he getting enough? His poop seems to be a little runny-ish does that mean he is hydrated or is it just the fact that since he lives with me his diet has changed....

Regards


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

He won't need water while on formula, only when starting eating seeds. Then you can dip the tip of the beak (not over the nostrils, otherwise he might aspirate) in a small bowl of water for him to drink. Or you can put your fingers in the water and "play" with it, he will get curious and put his beak in and sometimes they do start drinking that way.

Have you watched some video's on Youtube: "how to feed baby pigeons". I've watched your video, you need to use the other side of the syringe, cut off the edge and put a piece of rubber glove over it and fasten with a rubber band. Then cut a X into the rubber. You can fill the whole syringe, he will stick his beak inside and start eating. Between eating, he will pull his head back to take time to breath, then you just level the syringe so that no food goes down into the windpipe by accident.


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

Hi Marina,

Thank you so much for taking the time to help. Here where I live there is no formula the best you get is packets of wild bird seed in the shops. My vet knows less than me when I took him there for some advice.... I live in cattle country and here there are only products for cattle, cats and dogs.

Since yesterday I have perfected the syringe with a balloon over and it is making feeding much better and less messy. Day one he had just rice water. Day 2 he had fine oats mixed with water. Day 3 I boiled egg white and made a milky substance in the blender with it that I now mix 6 teaspoons with 1 teaspoon of oats and one teaspoon of seeds. ( the seeds are wild canary mixed seeds that I put through my coffee grinder to make a fine-ish powder.) He seems to need to feed less since I am on this mix and is growing feathers everyday.... I am dripping water with a small syringe on the tip of his beak a drop at a time... and last night I played in water for him to bring his beak... he dipped it twice i will keep going thank you. I will make another video later today as he just ate. He eats around 20ml at a time... 
I am so grateful for this forum and every bodies input and help. Thanks.
Regards


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

Here is a short video of him waiting for food yesterday.....

He is a fighter he has helped me keep him alive while I was and still am learning....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p12jjUT_rBY

I will take a video later when he feeds again....
thanks


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

He's looking well and is really cute. You can always try a baby cereal that contains no milk products and very little sugar. That's also a good substitute if you can't get hold of proper formula.


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

As always thank you so much.....
And as promised here is todays feed.... we getting better....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AvUFd3IYd0

I am still working on a clock for his feeds as I am still struggling to figure out this crop thing....lol I think its because he is so dirty. I try and clean him as best as I can but am nervous to hurt him... I will wait a few days and try and bathe him... I think somebody on another thread said after 20 days you can try and bathe them....?

Thank you for the reassurance and comfort.... as it is my first rescue ever I am like a fish out of water......like a first time mom....


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Don't think you saw the videos I posted as you were typing at the same time as me the other day. It shows the syringe with the balloon or stretch cloth over the end of the syringe, as Marina had suggested also. But seems you are doing that now anyway.

If you wipe him down with a warm and damp cloth after eating, you will get most of the food off before it dries. I wouldn't bathe him yet. Clean the old dry stuff off before feeding, with a warm wet rag, and then just do it gently after feeding each time. He is very cute.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I should have added that you should keep the end of the syringe that he is eating from, tilted downward. If you tilt it the other way, or even level, then air gets in where he is eating, and he will suck in air and fill his crop with it. You don't want that. You can take him out of the box also, to eat.


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

Again thank you so much to everybody here for taking me on this journey....

So far so good....

The kids could not agree as to what to name him so Pretty Pew-Pew it is....

Day 5 and he seems to be doing well ... smart and cute...

Have a good week.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Pretty pew-pew is one lucky pigeon that he was found by you. He's looking well and his droppings also looks good.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

He really needs a deeper dish for water, as they suck it up through their beak, and that would be almost impossible with a shallow amount of water as that. Make it like 2 inches deep would be so much better for him. Maybe a small crock that he cannot knock over.
Yes, he's very cute.


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

Thank you Guy`s,

It is so rewarding to watch him grow.

He is getting a bigger box later today as he is having trouble stretching his wings in this one(I do not want to cage him he is a wild bird). I do not know how realistic the idea is but..... the idea is to try and set him free and help him join the flock of birds I have in a tree in my garden. But that will be up to him I guess. I am spending my time now researching on the topic every spare min I get. But if he chooses\or has to stay well he is welcome... My kids adore him.

When I change is box I will make sure to get a bigger water dish.


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## baileybird (Nov 6, 2017)

What a cute little guy!
If you’ve been caring for him, it’s probably not a good idea to release him. By the time he is old enough to fly and feed on his own, he will depend on you for everything. Setting him out into the wild after you had cared for him for so long could spell the end for him.


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

That is my biggest fear..... There are pets and then there is beauty in nature. It is what I teach my children.. I would hate to rob him of a life out there....

P.S I say he just because.... it could be a she for all I know...lol


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

That is understandable. I feel the same way about wild or free things. If possible, they should remain that way. But when you raise a baby pigeon, then release them, they don't really stand a great chance at survival. They never had their parents to teach them all the things they need to learn to survive out there. May won't make it. Sometimes it works if they can be introduced into your flock outside, and you continue feeding and watering him for as long as he needs it. But if he should get out and just take off, he can easily get lost and not have a clue of how to get back, or how to survive in the wild. He won't have any idea of where to find food, water, shelter, or avoid predators. It's really hard on them without growing up with parents in a flock, which is how they learn what they need to know to live free.


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

As always thank you I value the information I get here so much.

Shame that is a bitter pill to swallow but I hear you and get your point. It is so sad though for me specially when it comes to birds... I have always had a thing against keeping any bird caged. But if need be, then it is what it is.... I will have to seriously change my line of thinking then......


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

If you keep themcaged, they live longer. Being in a really large cage or aviary can ve a quality life.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Danafraquelli said:


> As always thank you I value the information I get here so much.
> 
> Shame that is a bitter pill to swallow but I hear you and get your point. It is so sad though for me specially when it comes to birds... I have always had a thing against keeping any bird caged. But if need be, then it is what it is.... I will have to seriously change my line of thinking then......


I feel the same way about keeping any bird in a cage. I have a loft of rescues however that are not free. They are a mix of feral, homers and fancy pigeons. Most were rescued by people who found them in their neighborhoods, lost and starving, or injured. Some were close to death. On occasion I have an oops baby because I miss an egg and it doesn't get swapped out for fake. They pick their own mates for the most part, and all live together in our loft with connected aviary. Some times you have no choice. If these birds were let out to fly free, most would get lost or become a meal to a hawk. So we have our own little mixed flock, and they are safe from predators, and taken care of. I just love them. Sometimes, better safe than sorry.


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

Thank you so much for those words of comfort...

I started this journey few days ago thinking I am just going to help a baby pigeon....
Funny how you choose certain things in life and then some things choose you.... I guess i am a mommy to a baby pigeon for life now... good thing I found this great forum, I think i am going to need it.....lol..... I looked at cages today but i think i like your idea of a loft.... My dad has got some ideas also.... 

Thank you for excepting my friends request and being my guidance while I start this new beginning in my life...


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I'm sitting here laughing. That is how I got started several years ago. I came home with 6 babies that had been strewn all over someones yard when they replaced their porch. It was a really cold spring day. April, cold and rainy. I brought them home, not knowing a thing about pigeons, as far as raising them. I had planned to raise them and then release them also. LOL. All I had was the Good Lord to guide me. I found Pigeon Talk about 3 weeks later. Two of the babies were about 1 and 2 days old, nest mates. No one thought they would make it. I was also working, which made it even more interesting. To get enough feeds into them, I got up at 5:00am to feed, rushed home during the day when I could, came right home after work, and last feeding was at about 10:30 or 11:00 at night. The other 4 babies were about 1 to 1 1/2 weeks old. You really had to be here! Somehow I figured it out and did the best I could. Then later I found out from the posters on PT that they would probably not survive out there in the wild if released.
So we ended up building them a loft. They are our pets. You are right in that some things choose you. Those very young babies mated up, and are still living happily in our loft. Of course many have been added since that time. Rescues that others have found, oops babies, and a few little hens that I brought in for mates for my single boys. Sometimes we wonder what we ever did with our time before the day I brought home 6 little babies that surely would have died out there in the cold. It poured rain the next day too! On the days when I feel like life would be easier without them to care for, I just go out to the loft, (it's a walk in, so I can go inside), bring treats and play with my birds. I look at each one and think about how they would not have made it had we not intervened, and know that it is all worth it...............................most days! LOL.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Jay3, enjoyed your tale of the baby birds.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Thanks cwebster, but to look back at it now, it's amazing we got this far. I had no idea of what a change those 6 tiny little things were about to make in my life. Amazing how things go.


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

*quick question - food*

Hey there,

So pretty pew pew (poor bird) has been doing really well on the wild canary mix of seeds that I have been grinding down for him. I still have a days worth. I went to go and get some more but we live out in the sticks and here you not guaranteed anything. I ended up finding a poorer quality mix of canary seed mix and a good quality cockatoo mix.... Will it be ok to change his seed mix now or will I run in to drama? which of the two would be the best (I got both just in case)? The egg white that i mix to milk and store in the fridge, How long can I store and use before it is not suitable anymore ( he\she normally takes 3 days to finish it but for future ref I think its best to ask).....

Thank you
Regards


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

Thank you so much for sharing your story, It is comforting and inspiring... 

I am officially a bird lady now... who would have thought.....lol.... Well like I mentioned before.... the local vet knows less than I do when I went there on day one, so I am sure as word goes round in town, I will soon have my hands full.... New beginnings....I will be grey, old, full of birdies and go by the name bird lady....lol...


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

*Proud moment...*

I feel like a mommy who`s baby just took it`s first steps.....

So sorry but just had to share... Pretty pew pew just started eating and pecking in his seed bowl.... I feel like a proud mother and a stupid adult at the same time....lol

Will share video in a bit.....


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

That's great! Thanks for sharing.


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

*Pew pew eating...*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4K0FjchDsJw

He ate for about a hour long just picking away....

Happy moment.... sorry for boring you with my stories....lol

Night night...


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Looking good!


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Always such a relief when they start eating. You can encourage him more by putting your finger next to the seed and "play" with the seeds. When handraised, they view your fingers as the food source, so they will copy what your fingers does.


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

That is where he normally crawls in when he is going to bed

And pic two is his droppings now.....

Yesterday he got his feet full of droppings I had to clean them with water and I noticed he had it on his beak.... could that be the reason? or am I just grasping at straws here..... thank you so much....


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Those aren't bad. How much are you feeding him?


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

Morning,

So this morning pew pew refused food again. I gave him water. His droppings through the night was normal.... But the last one this morning was just clear water and the white that normally goes on top... NO DARK in the droppings.... Tried massaging his crop lightly, I think I feel a ball but I am so amateur at this crop thing I am not sure....He is still off balance\stumbling forward and to the side when he moves around, and I think because of this he is not moving around much. Other than that he looks good. I been searching online but can not get a clear idea of what could be wrong. I am not sure what to do to help him get better....


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Do you mean he refused to be syringe fed? Is he at least eating seeds? The watery dropping could be from drinking too much water.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

The ball you are feeling is probably the trachea, just underneath the neck.


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

Hi there,

Thank you so much. It all started going wrong the moment he started eating seeds. He started eating less from the syringe that I put down as normal due to self feeding. Then he refused a feed and I was still not that worried but concerned as he fed again from the syringe. Then I realized that he is having trouble with balance I think... when he tries to stretch his wings he falls over either to the side or forward... He is also wobly when he tries to walk or groom... yesterday he refused his 4pm feed but was pretty hungry and ate at 8 pm. Yet I had to hold my hand over him to balance or he falls over to the side..... for me now is midday and only now he is asking for food (he does ask for seeds but I have been reluctant to give him as I am still not sure what is wrong) some threads suggest crop issues\ some suggest a intestinal thingy I forgot the name starts with a p. I want to film his next feed to try and see if you can see what I mean by balance.... I can just tell he is not his usual self... yet he is alert, and groomes or at least tries....


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Is the intestinal thingy parasites?
He is a gorgeous bird! Hope he is better soon.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Is the food passing through, or being held in the crop? Can you feed him some warmed baby applesauce mixed with a bit of warm water. Make this his feeding, rather than what he was getting. Then very gently message the crop from the bottom. Gently though, as you don't want to bring up the contents of the crop into his throat. Don't want to aspirate him. The seeds may not be going through well. Also keep him on a warm heating pad set on LOW, with a layer of towel over it. If the crop isn't emptying, warm applesauce often helps to get things moving again. Feel for the bottom of the crop, and that is what you want to message.

I had one that over did with seed at first and the seed just stuck together and blocked everything up. The applesauce and gentle message worked to break things up and pass through.


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

Thank you,

I tried just giving him salt and sugar mix in water in the morning and just lightly feeling around for the crop area...lol It seemed to help a little. At noon he was starving but only ate 5ml and had to rest against my hand to feed not to fall over.I put his box here in my room on the floor for a little sunlight as well to see if that helps him (he has been camping in my kitchen since day 1 as its the warmest room in the house but no direct sun) I put seeds down and he is pecking away every now and then.... I am just watching him and his droppings closely now trying to keep him hydrated. He is a fighter I hope he gets back on his feet.... Thanx Cwebster... he is and very cute too when he is well....P.S the p thing was Paratyphoid its the only disease that mentions balance issues according to https://www.northstardoves.com/pages/pigeon-diseases.... Maybe he is just adjusting to the seed....time will tell I guess.... if things go south I will try the apple sauce.... here we have a baby fruit mix is that fine too? I have some in the house...


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Its really the apple that helps, so applesauce is needed.


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

Hi everybody,

Firstly thank you so much I was so worried I was beside myself.... 
I am still till this moment not sure what on earth was wrong with pew pew BUT I am happy to announce that I can see improvement... huge improvement. His stool has a green tinge to it but for the most part it almost looks normal again... He is standing on his feet for the first time in 2 days, flapping his wings and chirpy as usual... When I pick him up and put him down he stands strong on his feet. ( for 2 days he would stumble forward and use wings or beak to balance) 
I am left 1st amazed at how quickly things can go wrong and how quickly they can look better... but just happy he is looking better.

I am going to cook apple sauce for him anyways for tonights feed as I think it could only help the matter and even freeze some for future.... Can I mix his crushed seeds and oats in apple sauce maybe for the syringe or is that a NO NO.....

I am just so relieved to see signs of my birdie getting better.... Jay special thanx to you for talking me through this scary 2 days non stop.....


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

I think here is the culprit....

He just tried to make a stool and I noticed a problem ... when I picked him up this was attached (with dark droppings that fell to the towel) under him...
I took a paper towel and cleaned him off.... in the picture is what i cleaned off that was stuck.... He obviously had to pass this to feel better.... Right?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Danafraquelli said:


> Hi everybody,
> 
> Firstly thank you so much I was so worried I was beside myself....
> I am still till this moment not sure what on earth was wrong with pew pew BUT I am happy to announce that I can see improvement... huge improvement. His stool has a green tinge to it but for the most part it almost looks normal again... He is standing on his feet for the first time in 2 days, flapping his wings and chirpy as usual... When I pick him up and put him down he stands strong on his feet. ( for 2 days he would stumble forward and use wings or beak to balance)
> ...


I wouldn't mix seed into the applesauce, as you may need just the sauce to get the crop moving. When you do that you want just the sauce. You add add a small amount to the daily feedings though. Be sure not to add any sugar to the applesauce you make for him. You don't want to give him sugar, as yeast likes sugar.


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

Thank you....


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Is the seed not being digested? Is that a hard lump of seed?


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

Jay,
He makes a big mess when he eats so I am not sure if that actually came in the ball of white stuff through his system or if it just got stuck to it from the floor while he walks around.....


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Good! That is probably what happened. Is that a hard thing that came out? He may have had a blockage from the seed. I would start mixing some applesauce in with his food for one feeding a day. Make it about a 3rd of the feeding and see how he does. If you would prefer, than give a bit less with each feeding.


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

It was not rock hard but spungy if that makes any sense.... sort of like a when you roll wool in to a loose ball.... like clay-ish .... I will do just that.... he likes the seeds and to eat by himself he asks for it by pecking at the floor or the walls of the box.... so I will keep up the apple sauce to help him digest....


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

Its almost 8pm here and he just ate.... I gave him pure apple sauce he ate around 10 ml
and a few drops of water afterwards.... He is still a little wobbly but seems much better.... Now the waiting game ....Lets see what happens...

thanx Jay, Marina, webster for everything


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If he is eating seed, then he needs to learn to drink water on his own. If he eats the seed, he needs to be able to drink enough water to soften them up to help him digest them. If not, then he could have problems. You need to get him drinking.


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

Morning everybody,

I am as confused as ever.... He is alert grooming and flapping around.... has the occasional stumble but seems ok... His dropping were grass green from during the night.... Some runny some solid (maybe from the apple sauce)
He is chirpy and was very hungry in the morning and impatient for his food but when I fed him he ate 5ml from the syringe... if that much... He is eating seeds though... But I am concerned I can see his crop is not full as usual and he must be hungry so why eat so little.... I tried your method of getting him to drink water.... by lightly pushing his head in the water but I have not seen him drink yet..... I will put more effort in today.... make it my mission for the day.....


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

I will post a picture as soon as I can of his droppings.....


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Just don't push the beak too deep into the water. The water must not cover his nostrils, cause if he breaths then he will aspirate.


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

We are hunkered down in the middle of a tropical storm right now..... a little like the one I found him afterwards....
I got pew pew in my room as the generator makes a big noise.... He was flapping quite a bit this morning so we put his temporary cage up for him in my room and put him box and all inside so he does not stress out too much with the new surroundings...
Here is a pic of his droppings in the morning .... it seems a little better now after he ate a bit but still on the green side shame....but he was very active this morning so he must be feeling better....


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

Photo of the droppings....


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Is he eating peas?


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

No I think he is too small roughly 20 days old.... can he swallow a whole pea? He only pecks on the very tiny seeds in the dish.... I had a hunch it must have been the fact that he ate apple sauce for the first time or maybe after math of the ball that came out yesterday.... I am having trouble telling his droppings today as he keeps doing them in his water dish.... but it seems alright from what I can tell..... 
He still has his balance issue and I think it makes it hard for him to eat so he feeds like crazy from the syringe more often but 5ml at a time before he turns his head away and refuses....


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

Guy`s and gals....

Just a quick note to say thank you so much for the time and effort you have given me the last few days.... I know it can not be easy. I did not want to go to bed without letting you know that pew pew (I think) is almost 100% back to normal. His dropping are good all round, he is almost eating as well as before, his balance is a little wobbly but I think by tomorrow he is going to be back to normal if everything keeps going in this good direction. 
Thanx again
Have a good night...


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Glad to hear things are quieting down. Good nite!


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Glad to hear he's better. Maybe you can still feed him in the morning and evening and leave out seeds for him to eat during the day. From now on you can also start adding apple cider vinegar to his drinking water, 2 or 3 times a week. 5 ml ACV to 1 l of drinking water. This will keep his system healthy.


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

*New development = next steps????*

Hey everybody,

How are you doing? We are doing very well but pew pew is evolving and growing (thank goodness). So now I am left with a couple of questions that I am hopeful you can help with please.

So I found him on the 15th and I guessed him around 10-12 days old.... that would make him roughly 24 days old today... give or take a bit...

Since yesterday he gets very happy to see me but takes 2-3 gulps of his food from the syringe and then refuses but he is eating seeds like crazy... I can tell his belly is full and I fill his seed bowl all the time... I have not seen him drink water out of his own accord just yet but if I entice him he will drink some while I am watching. Is he ready to go on seeds only or should i be concerned? Is he getting everything he needs from just seed to continue growing strong and healthy?

Then call me crazy but I think he is asking me to help him fly. I let him out of his enclosure to socialize with me a few min (a few times) during the day and also for him to sunbathe a bit next to me while I am on my pc. He loves it... but he tends to flap his wings like crazy and I could be totally nuts but it seems like he wants to fly.... Is it time? Should I encourage it?
We are going in to winter and I do not have the heart to kick him out, so he now has a permanent spot in the lounge (after we moved the furniture around to fit his cage and give him the perfect view) much like a pet parrot or canary....

Till now with your help I had it all together... I have grown a close bond with this little bird, so much so when I call he crawls in to my hand gets comfy and we walk the house chatting and cuddling.... I just want to continue doing the best for him and not me... Please can you guide or advise me going forward...I am just afraid I miss crucial steps I might not even consider as a first time pigeon mom... Please and thank you so much....

Looking forward to hearing from you.... Hope to hear you all well
Just in case you curious I update the album as often as possible....
Sleep well


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Hi. If he is eating well, then let him eat the seed. Offer him the formula at the end of the day. When you offer the water, does he drink it from the bowl? If so then he knows how to drink and will drink when he wants it. How much seed does he eat daily?

As far as flapping his wings, he is exercising them to prepare for flying. He doesn't need your help. He will fly on his own when he is ready.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

If you want to keep him as a pet would not encourage any flapping outside as he may surprise you and fly up somewhere and not return, where as a lone pigeon he is likely to be picked off by a predator.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

He will soon learn to fly by himself and then he will follow you around everywhere. You will need the following for him to have a good life: 

1. Grit - this will help with digestion of seeds and also contains minerals that they need.

2. Vitamins in the drinking water, especially calcium with added Vit D3. If he's going to be kept indoors, he won't get sunlight and they need sunlight to manufacture calcium. If your's is a female, she will start laying eggs one day and will get eggbound if there's not enough calcium in her body.

3. Apple cider vinegar: twice a week, add 5 ml to 1 l of drinking water. This will keep the system healthy.

All the above you will get from a petshop, the acv from a supermarket. Will let you know if I think of anything else.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

They also like a bit of green like chopped up spinach. You can also give him a treat: unsalted raw chopped up peanuts once a week. It will take a while for him to start eating the above, but once he does he will be hooked.


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

*Hey*

Thank you so so much as always for all the tips and advise and the time invested to pass it on to me....

Apologies it took me so long to come back and acknowledge and thank you, I have been doing a bit of a balancing act here with Easter approaching....

Wishing you and yours happy days ahead....

Regards


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

*Hello... OMG help please*

Hi there,

Hope everybody is happy, healthy and had a great Easter.

Guy`s things have been going really well till tonight. I just had a very scary moment. Today I think he got too excited and nearly aspirated or he did.... 

I have been feeding him (syringe feed) just at night as advised and so far so good. Today, I mixed some apple sauce with his finely crushed seeds.He gulped it down and I am not sure what happened but he looked like he was going to die. He seemed by Gods grace to recover or at least I think so.... He seems ok.... but again i am a amateur maybe I just do not know what to look for....
Please advise me please.....

Thank you so much....


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If he is eating enough seed on his own now, you can just let him eat the seed. No need to feed him from the syringe. You only needed to do that while he adjusted to eating on his own. Can you post pics of him now?


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

Jay thank you so so much for coming to my rescue again....

He seems ok, but i got such a fright... you have no idea... I am not sure if he choked or what happened.... he just started falling to the side and I was nearly in tears and then as fast as he looked in trouble he seemed to fine again.....I am down loading a pic as fast as I can is there a specific pic you want to see... like eyes or something I can work on so long...


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

*photo*

Hey there here is a pic of him.... he seems ok like I said but maybe he is not...
Is there anything I should look out for.... maybe... that I would not know....

thanx


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

*photo*

second try


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

*Food*

Hey,

He eats all day long... I change his water and food often to make sure it is fresh and clean along with the towels i put down for him....

I had a hunch that he should be ok feeding on his own but because he gets so excited when he sees me come with his fresh sheets and the syringe at night... I been carrying on with the tradition... He gulps like 5-10mls every night cuddles a bit and then goes off to bed.... On his own during the day i am not exactly sure how much he eats as he makes a huge mess....


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You can make him a much better mix by add a small amount of safflower seed, dried split peas, and lentils. That mixed seed doesn't really have a lot of protein or good seeds in it for a growing pigeon. I never give mine the sunflower seed in the hulls either. They are kinda big for him to eat. And so much hull to them. Most of the wild birds that do eat those remove the seed from the hull. Adding a bit of hulled sunflower seed would be better, and easier to digest.
I have no idea of what was going on with him.
I just wanted to see a picture to see how much he is growing and how he looked now.
Cute............from what I could see.


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

*Hey*

Jay as always thank you so much....

I completely just panicked... it has been an hour now and he seems ok, he is fast asleep. Maybe he just choked or something, because I know so little and learning on the job I panic.... Sorry ....

Thank you so much... Jay he has crawled right under my skin. So cute... When the kids are at school he wanders around the house... when I call he crawls on to my hand, loves sitting by me... when I am working he sits next to me in the sun at my desk.... so cute who would have thought a little bird could snap up your heart like that....

Yes he does not manage the sunflower seeds but loves to through them around...lol

Now that he is a bit bigger I am going to give your mix a try....
Thanx again
Have a good night
Tomorrow I will take better pics and update the album...


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

You have done a great job raising him. Lovely bird!


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

*Video of pew*

Morning everybody....

Here is a short video of him eating this morning....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2ytNUKjoLM

He seems perfect.....
Thank you so much for everything... thank you cwebster for the kind words..

Jay you will see that I put a small container with slightly grounded lentils as it is what I had on hand today just to see if he takes a liking.... 
I will mix up a better mixture today....


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

He is just gorgeous! I hope he will have a long and happy life with you!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

He's adorable, and looks like he's doing great. Just mix the lentils in with the seed. Anything new you add, just mix it in as he is more likely to try new things that way, and not eat just the one thing.


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

*Hey*

Hey there,

Thank you so much everybody for the kind words and well wishes....

Today we took him\her out (for 1 hour) for the first time since we found him. I chose the end of day when the tree, he fell out of, is alive and deafening with sound from all the birds...
It was a bitter sweet moment.... He was unsure and afraid but curious .... while I sat next to him for comfort but feeling sad that I had to keep him caged....shame....

here is a quick vid....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCVVCNvcv1Y


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Caged and aviary birds live longer. If the bird seems lonely you could get him/her a friend.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If released now that he has been raised by humans, he would probably die.


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

Good morning,

Please do not worry, I completely understand that he depends on us now. I have grown so attached to him and love him to bits.....he is very much part of our family.

We are busy building him a small loft outside so he can start spending some time outside as I understand like all living creatures he needs sun and fresh air.... But he is a house pigeon now... he has his little space in the house and always will....


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

That's a great idea to give him something to get outside in. You can set up a bath out there, where he can bathe and then lay in the sun as they love to do. He should love that. Hope you will share pictures of him bathing and enjoying his time out there.


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

*Grit....*

Hey there,

Just a quick question.... I can not find any form of grit in this town but read that you can use egg shell.....
Baked in the oven and then ground down....this apparently also helps for calcium

Is this true? And is it wise? or is there other options?

Thanx so much


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Egg shells added to the grit are a great way to add calcium to the diet, but it doesn't serve as grit. Calcium is soft and will break down quickly, so isn't helpful in grinding down seeds and such. So they do not serve as grit, but good to add. You can find pigeon grit online also.


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

*Hey*

Hey there,

Guy`s Just to do a bit of explaining .... I am a South African english speaking women that by Gods will landed up in a small town in Brazil, near the border with Argentina, married to a seafood trader. How we got here, it was never the plan but life sometimes takes you on a journey.... I am telling you this because I know i sometimes sound completely stupid but it is sincerely just my lack of knowledge on birds, my lack of local language skills and my location....lol 
No kidding you can not find a pediatrician in this town for your human baby sometimes and am then forced to see a obstetrician, as she is the only other dr in town willing to see infants....lol My vet here has no knowledge other than cats, dogs and cattle.... It is nuts living like this but we some how make it work....

Lets just say the internet has become my best friend over the last few years.
Internet shopping well..... I just thought I would mention all this so you have a better idea as to why I drive you all crazy.....lol

I have spent days looking for products for pigeons online but come up empty.... you find tons for canary, parrot, you name it.... but nothing for pigeons.... Nothing....

So I spend days reading and this forum.... its my bible....
Lucky everybody here has been so giving of their time and so helpful....
On behalf of my birdie I am forever in your debt but what I learn I shall repay by passing it on....

Have a great weekend
Thanx a mill


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## Silverwings (Oct 27, 2017)

there is a good website called foy's pigeon or pet supplies or something like that, and it sells things for pigeons, including dewormers and things.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You would need to use a pigeon supply online. There are many.
And you don't drive us crazy. You're fine.


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

Morning, 

Thank you so much....

I found a website here that sells grit, vitamins, de-worming, antibiotic, and and .... BUT there is always a but.... It is nothing specifically for pigeons... all of it is a general for all bird types... My thoughts are.... something is better than nothing, right?....

My question is as follows... Can I use generalized products for all bird species? My idea is to purchase a multi-vitamin, de-worming, general antibiotic (just to have it hopefully I will never need it).... 

I think I have just had a break through that I wanted to run past you... Do pigeons get constipated? lol.... I just burst out laughing typing that.... But I am serious....

Twice now I have run to the forum bugging everybody because my baby had some weird wobbly-ness going on and strange behavior. Then as soon as it comes it goes and he seems fine... both times I just panicked, but was grateful when it is over, he is fine.... 
So yesterday he looked crazy again.... doing weird stuff with his beak (like yawning or airing his mouth) and stumbling around... minimal activity all day and I just watched him worried... towards the end of the day I realized that every time he does this he has a very large, more solid dropping.... and then he is fine just like that....like nothing happened.... Can a bird be constipated? Should I be worried about it or does this happen?
I put some apple cider vinegar in his water last night, today he is a lively busy birdie....

Enjoy your Sunday 

Thank you


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Danafraquelli said:


> Morning,
> 
> Thank you so much....
> 
> ...


'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

*hey*

Hey there,

Thank you so much for the info, I have gone ahead and ordered the vitamins and goodies.... It will take 10 days to get to me....crazy...

I am searching for the grit....

I have given him AVC for 2 days now at night and I must say it has made a huge difference in his behavior. He is way more active and alert. Although his droppings are still huge balls. I think whatever was stuck is working its way out now... I have not seen him yawn yet today either. 

I gave him crushed oven dried egg shell of one egg today and I have never seen him so excited.... he is tossing his food everywhere looking for the egg shell and whistling while at it.... like a egg shell junkie.... How often should I do this?

He has spent the past 2 days outside during the day (will post a pic later in the album) and I think he loves it.... I bring him inside as the sun starts to set....

I am considering giving him normal water today and then some garlic in his water tomorrow.... I read it is good for them but I am afraid to just believe everything I read.... What is your take and advice on garlic? or should I just stick to AVC or plain water?

Wishing you a fab week ahead


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

We are doing renovations out back on our house.... once it is all done we will put up a larger loft for him...

But here is his temporary hang-out..... He even has a pool area that he thinks is a big drinking bowl....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5FmwL0OXN4


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

*Update*

Hi everybody,

Hope to hear you are well. I just wanted to give you a little quick update on our birdie. After all you all contributed to him\her being here today. 

Since my last post he has just been in the best of health ever Amen. Nothing no drama. My dad has taken him\her as a best friend and they even share a room. Most spoiled bird ever. He has coffee with the family in the kitchen every morning flying from to another. He spend his days baking and bathing. At night he sleeps like a free bird, on a perch my dad built him, in his room. Thats after he sits on my dada chest watches tv every night. We love him to bits, can not imagine life without him. 

Thank you again.
In the album I will update with some photos.
Take care


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

I'm so glad he is doing well and that you are keeping him. He would not have survived out there. Thanks for the update and enjoy the little one.


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## Silverwings (Oct 27, 2017)

He sounds very happy. Nice to hear that he is doing well.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Glad to know it's going well. Thanks for the update. What a life!


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

*new update\ problem*

Morning everybody,

I hope to hear all is well. 

So pew-pew turns out to be a she as this morning we woke up and she had laid one single egg on top of the closet.....

What do we do now? Do we take the egg away? How often does this happen. 
Please can u advise me? 

Thank you again in advance


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

So sweet, she's a female! No problem. You can provide her with a small nesting bowl, a round reed basket that narrows down to the bottom will work fine. Put some twigs in there and the egg on top. She will lay another one within the next day or so and then will continue to incubate them. Don't remove the eggs, she will just lay more and deplete her body of calcium. Incubating eggs keeps them busy and that's what nature intended them to do.

She will eventually lose interest in the eggs after 2 weeks or so, and then you can remove them. She will lay more and the cycle will start all over again. You will have to provide her with calcium that has added Vit D3, otherwise she might get eggbound.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Glad to hear pew-pew is doing so well!


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

Hey there,

Thank you so much for the response and advice. I could never have gotten this far without you.

Are there some noticeable changes that occur after she has layed the first egg?
I am asking as I have noticed that her droppings have a slight green tinge to it( but still a healthy white cap), are less frequent (maybe due to now trying to incubate the egg). But the part that worries me the most is the size, her droppings are the size of a egg. Is that due to the fact that its less frequent? 

I am still waiting for the second egg but also read on another thread here that as it is her first time there might only be one. I am giving her egg shell everyday now while we wait....

Thank you so much


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Yes, the droppings do change when they incubate eggs. They don't poo in the nest, want to keep it clean, so they hold it in until the partner takes over and then everything comes out in a huge dropping with a nasty smell. 

In nature the male brings the twigs to the female. I have a dove that used to lay eggs often. When she was incubating her eggs, I would hand her little twigs that she took from my fingers and tucked them in under her body to built herself a nice nest. That was so sweet and heartwarming, maybe you can try to do the same.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

When they start dropping poops like that, you may wish you had trained her to a cage.
I had a pair that needed to be caged for a while, and she layed eggs. So when I would let them out for exercise, I would first put her into a small cage with paper towels on the floor of the cage. She had held it for a while so had to go, and so she would go right away in the small cage, then I could let her out in the room to fly.


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

Hey,

Marina I followed your advice with the twigs and leaves, thank you so much. It is adding so much joy to the experience. We are like little kids watching her arrange and re-arrange all day. 

Jay, believe it or not my dad says he likes this new dropping and incubating routine as the room stays clean almost all day...lol 

Yesterday she was very active today she seems very dedicated to her egg. I am a little concerned as there is still only one egg. But she is eating and seems fine. She has taken my father as her partner, and gets a little defensive and protective when the rest of us come too close to her nest. I was wondering, beside having to physically handle her are there any other ways that we could try and tell if she has another egg? I read that in colder months is when `eggbound` becomes a problem and we are dead set in the middle of one of the coldest winters in ages.... I am so afraid of miss interpreting her behavior and she might be in trouble and I do not even know it.....

Thank you so much.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

I've never dealt with eggbound before, but from what I've read the first sign will be lost of appetite. Also depression, fluffed up and straining to pass the egg. As long as she's acting normal, she will be ok. Won't harm to do some reading up about this problem, at least you will be prepared if this ever happens.

Cuttlefish bone is also a good source of calcium, don't know if you can get hold of this. Just crush it up into small pieces.


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

Thank you so much for your time....

I am keeping an close eye on her for now and praying for the best....

I am going to update the album with some photos for you. When I attach here they seem to be so large....


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Some photo's will be nice. Just post them, nowadays they are all huge. But if one right click on the photo, and click "view image", they come out smaller.


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

There we go.... so sweet.... mamma and egg on dads closet...


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

So nice, enjoy the whole experience!


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## Friend John (Jun 10, 2018)

So cute. Good luck.


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## Danafraquelli (Mar 15, 2018)

*Advice needed*

Hi everybody,

I hope to hear all is well your side.

I am again in a catch 22 situation with our little birdie and feeling a bit crushed... So the first few months of our feathered baby`s life I came to terms with the fact that she is now a member of our family and will never be free. For me this was sad but I took it in my stride. All was great. Then she matured and started laying eggs. When I finally got myself educated enough on the matter to make sure she is healthy and all is going well we enjoyed it so much to watch her nurture and develop. 

Here is my problem. Pew pew is such a dedicated mom, she does not give up and she is so protective. She will not leave the nest for nothing and I mean nothing unless we are next to her. She sits and sits and will not give up on those eggs. Today is set number 3 and it has been 3 weeks we heading for 4 this week. And she will not loose focus or give up. That is so admirable and as humans can learn from her. She lays a set sits for 3 weeks takes a 3 day break and lays a new set. I have in the meantime read that she can do this all year round. I am so happy she is healthy and all is well BUT....

I have to keep asking myself what kind of life is that. She sits in a room on a closet 3-4 weeks. Takes a 3 day break to fly around the house and then does it all over again. So my question is as follows....

Is there a breeding season for pigeons? Or is this going to be her life all year round? Is this a healthy life for her, to me it seems so sad and lonely? I feel like we have done her a injustice? And last but not least do you have any suggestions or advice maybe?

Thank you again in advance for always being there for us and our feathered child..... looking forward to hearing from you....


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## Friend John (Jun 10, 2018)

I don't know if it's an option for you, but the best solution would probably be to find a mate who'll share the burden of sitting on the eggs. In nature, the parents take shifts and relieve each other, so if you get her a mate, he'll do that and her life would be much easier, and you won't feel so bad either. They'll both have a companion, which is important for pigeons and doves. You'll have to get fake eggs though. As for breeding, pigeons breed quite a lot, and while they'll slow down in the winter, they'll still manage to lay eggs around 5 times a year.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

If it was not for you and the effort you've put into rescueing her, she would not have been alive today. I know it's sad for us humans to see them doing this, for her it's normal. Like Friend John suggested, a mate would be perfect. At least you know you have a female.

If you find a mate for her, an outside aviary will be a better choice for them. She might not accept a new pigeon easily, cause she was handraised by humans. You will have to introduce them slowly to each other.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes, getting her a mate would be the best thing for her. I'm sure she is lonely without another dove around.


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