# Apple Cider Vinegar & Regular Vinegar



## zoozle2 (Dec 27, 2008)

What is Apple Cider vinegar and White Vinegar used for, for pigeons? I have seen a few posts about this, but they don't say anything about what its for only that the white vinegar is used for cleaning and other stuuf i guess?? and what about the apple cider vinegar??


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Zoozle,

You may use either type of vinegar in the water for the birds in terms
of encouraging the multiplication of good bacteria/flora. However, Raw
Apple Cider Vinegar w/the 'Mother' provides nutrients that the white vinegar doesn't have. "White vinegar" is a food grade product for humans and likewise may also be used to achieve the acidic environment needed for promoting the multiplication of good 'gut bacteria'. It simply is not the most nutritious advantage that may be provided to our birds w/minimal cost increments.

fp


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Here's a link to one of the more popular raw ACV products:

http://bragg.com/products/acv.html

The 'pasteurized' versions are likewise inferior.

fp


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Well it has been stated that the type of vinegar isn't what is important, it's the fact they create an acidic environment. However, when you get down to it, white vinegar is best for cleaning and sanitizing, and apple cider vinegar is best used in the drinking water. Apple cider vinegar is beneficial to the birds in many ways, acting like a natural antibiotic and creating an environment in the guts that makes it easier for good bacteria to grow. It also has lots of trace elements that are good for the birds, and helps with the immune system. It's important that you look for natural vinegar and not something diluted or with additives. If you go back to those threads there's many links on vinegar that should give you some good info on ACV, what it's used for, and what it does for pigeons.


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## zoozle2 (Dec 27, 2008)

okay thanks for the advice and also if i were to want to use it how much do i put in the water, for example a one quart waterer??


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

One tablespoon per gallon, so that'd be roughly a teaspoon per quart.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

MaryOfExeter said:


> Well it has been stated that the type of vinegar isn't what is important, it's the fact they create an acidic environment. However, when you get down to it, white vinegar is best for cleaning and sanitizing, and apple cider vinegar is best used in the drinking water. Apple cider vinegar is beneficial to the birds in many ways, acting like a natural antibiotic and creating an environment in the guts that makes it easier for good bacteria to grow. It also has lots of trace elements that are good for the birds, and helps with the immune system. It's important that you look for natural vinegar and not something diluted or with additives. If you go back to those threads there's many links on vinegar that should give you some good info on ACV, what it's used for, and what it does for pigeons.


Not according to scientific data that was collated during experiments. Either
will do in terms of encouraging the growth of good bacteria and both are food grade. What makes the difference for raw ACV is the nutrients that are present that are not present in the White ACV. Either
will work in a pinch, the raw ACV w/the 'mother present' is superior in terms of nutrients and not it's ability to encourage the growth of good acid loving bacteria.

Again, Bragg's is considered the premium selection.

One to two tablespoons per gallon dependant on the weight of the birds.

fp


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Well what I meant was that it was better because of those nutrients and trace elements, but that both made the acidic environments to help good bacteria. Sorry about that, didn't make myself very clear


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## zoozle2 (Dec 27, 2008)

Can this be used on all ages and mothers with young?


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I've used it with parents on babies, newly weaned birds, and up. I've never had a problem. So in my opinion, yes you can use it for basically any aged pigeon.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

zoozle2 said:


> Can this be used on all ages and mothers with young?


Within reason and range of dose. There have been reports here of birds that
were given too much ACV to the detriment of their health. Again. both White
Vinegar and Apple Cider Vinegar are food grade and may be given to the birds
to promote the 'pre-biotic' environment that encourages the growth of good
bacteria when afterwards, a dosing of Pro-biotics is administered.

fp


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2009)

wow this ACV must be some serious stuff lol


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*Raw, Mother, Distilled*

*The key words are RAW ,MOTHER, and distilled. Raw Apple Cider Vinegar is not distilled as distillation kills the mother which are emzymes that give ACV the health kick that we are looking for. White vinegar is distilled and the heat kills all the emzymes and most if not all the mineral are removed during distillation the only thing that is not changed is the acid, so why would one want to use a product that is void of all the good Nutrients.I use only raw ACV in the water and also use garlic juice at the same time This is a health tonic for the birds and in fact for us humans too. The mix I use is 1 TABLESPOON of ACV and 1 TABLESPOON of GARLIC juice PER gallon of water, twice a week.* GEORGE


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I like to use the Braggs ACV in the drinking water a few days a week, followed by a day where they get the probiotics. I use plain apple cider vinegar from walmart in the bath water, as the Braggs is too expensive for bath water, the birds are squeeky clean-inside and out!


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Trees Gray said:


> I like to use the Braggs ACV in the drinking water a few days a week, followed by a day where they get the probiotics. I use plain apple cider vinegar from walmart in the bath water, as the Braggs is too expensive for bath water, the birds are squeeky clean-inside and out!


ooh, good tip!


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## Squeeker (Jan 6, 2009)

Evidently vinigar in the bath water is not harmful to the feathers is that correct?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Not at all, apple cider vinegar may be a better choice over regular vinegar-as stated earlier.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

george simon said:


> *The key words are RAW ,MOTHER, and distilled. Raw Apple Cider Vinegar is not distilled as distillation kills the mother which are emzymes that give ACV the health kick that we are looking for. White vinegar is distilled and the heat kills all the emzymes and most if not all the mineral are removed during distillation the only thing that is not changed is the acid, so why would one want to use a product that is void of all the good Nutrients.I use only raw ACV in the water and also use garlic juice at the same time This is a health tonic for the birds and in fact for us humans too. The mix I use is 1 TABLESPOON of ACV and 1 TABLESPOON of GARLIC juice PER gallon of water, twice a week.* GEORGE



I think Chalmers was just in his scientific mode and pursued tests which discovered that the acidic content was key. I'm sure that if Chalmers had
chosen to do tests on the beneficial difference between white distilled vinegar and raw undistilled ACV, that one would be able to prove the nutrient
superiority of raw ACV. I use raw ACV exclusively for the pigeons, though
I've used white distilled for decades for other medicinal uses.

fp


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## Grimaldy (Feb 25, 2007)

It is not my favorite source, but here is what Wikepedia has to say about vinegar production:

Vinegar is made from the oxidation by acetic acid bacteria of ethanol in wine, cider, beer, fermented fruit juice, or nearly any other liquid containing alcohol.

"Commercial vinegar is produced either by fast or slow fermentation processes. Slow methods generally are used with traditional vinegars and fermentation proceeds slowly over the course of weeks or months. The longer fermentation period allows for the accumulation of a nontoxic slime composed of acetic acid bacteria and soluble cellulose, known as the mother of vinegar.

Fast methods add mother of vinegar (i.e. bacterial culture) to the source liquid before adding air using a Venturi pump system or a turbine to promote oxygenation to obtain the fastest fermentation. In fast production processes, vinegar may be produced in a period ranging from 20 hours to three days.

Vinegar eels (Turbatrix aceti), a form of nematode that has cells that are air-borne, may occur in some forms of vinegar unless the vinegar is kept covered. These feed on the mother of vinegar and can occur in naturally fermenting vinegar.[1] This is the reason vinegar condiment jars have tightly-fitting stoppers. Most manufacturers filter and pasteurize their product before bottling to eliminate any potential adulteration, although they are harmless when ingested."

So vinegar is basically the by-product of bacteria, living off the by-product of yeast, on saccarides. Everything else is wishful thinking.


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