# help baby dove



## bulldove

can anybody help please im trying to save one of my chicks as the parents arnt feeding it ,i havent got a clue so i have been giving it [soft feeding for canaries] and today crunched up steeped brown peas fae feed.. it is 9 days today


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## Msfreebird

bulldove said:


> can anybody help please im trying to save one of my chicks as the parents arnt feeding it ,i havent got a clue so i have been giving it [soft feeding for canaries] and today crunched up steeped brown peas fae feed.. it is 9 days today


If you have a pet store nearby you should pick up some Kaytee "exact" hand feeding formula. Do you know how to tube feed? I'm not good at giving instructions, but hang in there - someone here will get to you very soon. You have come to the right place, all are very very helpfull.


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## bulldove

Msfreebird said:


> If you have a pet store nearby you should pick up some Kaytee "exact" hand feeding formula. Do you know how to tube feed? I'm not good at giving instructions, but hang in there - someone here will get to you very soon. You have come to the right place, all are very very helpfull.


im using a seringe puting it to the back of mouth and squirting in very slowly little by little its brother or sister is miles ahead as they feeding it no probs thank god..


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## Msfreebird

bulldove said:


> im using a seringe puting it to the back of mouth and squirting in very slowly little by little its brother or sister is miles ahead as they feeding it no probs thank god..


You just want to be sure that it is getting into the crop and NOT in the airway. I don't know if it makes much difference but you might want to move this thread to "sick and injured pigeons". It might get noticed quicker.


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## Lovebirds

Hi Bulldove......can you tell us where you are? We do get a lot of visitors from different countries and we have many members all over the world. Are you keeping it warm? I'll go see if I can find some links to feeding a baby pigeon. I see the baby is 9 days old, so you are almost past the hardest part.


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## Lovebirds

Here are a couple of threads about feeding and keeping the baby warm.


http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=9682

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=16235

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=13601


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## Maggie-NC

How long have you been feeding the baby? If you can get the Kaytee hand feeding formula, it would probably be best for the baby. It sounds like you are feeding it fine, so long as the syringe is past the air hole at the back of the throat and giving it small amounts. A baby that age can probably take 5 cc at a time but do it slowly. You can help them swallow by gently rubbing their throat.

Hand fed babies are usually smaller (initially) than those fed by their parents. However, they always seem to catch up after they begin eating on their own.


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## bulldove

*thanks*

things arnt looking good im getting more nerviose as now im scared i get it down its lungs its not very perky and very very small infact at lasy weigh in its only 27 grams.. i will try to get kaytee feed but wont get a pet store open till the mora if it lives that long ,i think im just gettin stressed and how many times should i feed it per day.


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## bulldove

Lovebirds said:


> Hi Bulldove......can you tell us where you are? We do get a lot of visitors from different countries and we have many members all over the world. Are you keeping it warm? I'll go see if I can find some links to feeding a baby pigeon. I see the baby is 9 days old, so you are almost past the hardest part.


thanks for gettin back to me im in Scotland just out side Ediburgh


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## Lovebirds

bulldove said:


> things arnt looking good im getting more nerviose as now im scared i get it down its lungs its not very perky and very very small infact at lasy weigh in its only 27 grams.. i will try to get kaytee feed but wont get a pet store open till the mora if it lives that long ,i think im just gettin stressed and how many times should i feed it per day.


How many days have you been feeding this baby? I always feed my babies by just squirting a little in their mouth, on their tongue and let them swallow it. I am scared to tube feed and I'm also always scared I'll get the food down in the lungs. It takes a little more time to do it the way I do it, but it's always worked for me. Here's a short video of how I feed babies. These two are a lot older than yours but it still works the same. Can you post a picture by any chance? 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJe6y8EYQRg


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## Lovebirds

Oh, I forgot about how many times to feed it.............again, this is not something I do a lot of, however, the few times I DID have to raise a baby, I probably fed mine 5 or 6 times a day. Basically, you feed them until their crop is full, not TOO full, and when it empties, feed them again. I sort of just keep an eye on them and play it by ear.


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## bulldove

View attachment 8588
thanks i think ill keep trying the squirt in mouth method..as you can see from photo tiny with small grase on side from parents.i feed it then put it back in with them for heat .and rap it in towel when feeding ..the crop only seems empty in the morning,but im using a 5ml seringe and it dosnt seem to take much and ive been steeping peas then crunchin them up and hand feeding into its mouth is this adviable at this stage..and should i be giving it water seporate ..as the soft feeding is steeped in water and runny so i can sook it up with seringe..sorry i must be doing your head in..also sorry about the spelling


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## Lovebirds

Well, his little crop looks pretty full to me. He is tiny for 9 days old, but the ones that are hand fed don't usually grow as fast as they would if the parents were feeding them. As long as what you are feeding has water, then you shouldn't have to give him any water. Just keep doing what you are doing and hopefully you can find the Exact tomorrow. That has better nutrition and he'll do a lot better with it. Can you get any baby cereal? That might work better for today than the peas. And, don't apologize for asking questions. That's why we're here.  
So, the parents are sitting on him but aren't feeding him? That's a little strange. Usually, if they won't feed them, they won't take care of them at all and that's why we have to raise them ourself. However, if they'll keep him warm, that's good.

PS: Are you SURE he's 9 days old? It looks like his eye's are not even open yet, but maybe he just had them closed when you took the picture since he's looks full and satisfied.


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## bulldove

*more pics*

this is some pics taken today and he hatched on the 27th o march thanks again for your help[/ATTACH]


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## Maggie-NC

He is tiny but cute as a button. Try it the way Renee suggested - just drop a bit at the front of his beak and let him swallow then go at it again. A baby this tiny can take 3-5 cc each feeding, say, about 1 1/2 - 2 hours apart. You don't need to get up in the night to feed it unless you want too but we make sure to feed any we have just before we go to bed. We've done so many, I go by their crop which should be plump and soft and it should go down before he is fed again. 

Warmth is a key factor in raising the little ones. It is odd that the parents sit him but don't feed him. They are not real active at his age. All they want is to be warm and have a full tummy.  

Also, is that a small wound on the very end of his back?


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## bulldove

*baby dove*

hi thanks again for reply good to no im not alone..yes there is a small wound on his side but it has scabed over so looks like it healing ok ,as the parents kept fighting over who sat on them so i had to split them and swap them over to sit ,very strange i no but couldnt work it any other way or they would have killed the chicks for shure the other chick is thriving no probs at all and parents stoped fighting and take it in turns alltho not sitting on them all the time ,but when i feel tiny he warm so i can only gess it best to leave him with them..i have had the parents for 6y now and this only the third time ive let the eggs hatch so dont no much and never have both chicks lived only one each time..


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## bulldove

*baby dove*

Hi anybody there ,just wanted to say that i got kaytee feed but neerly lost ma chick this morning ,went out and he was stone cold so brought him/her in and gradualy warmed him up now on heat pad ,been fed and seems happy ,thought he was a gonner still not out the woods yet...


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## Reti

Make sure he has warmed up for an hour, then you can give some water. Check if there is any urine and when you notice he has pooped or urinated then only feed.

Reti


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## bulldove

he poped and ive fed him a little 3times today so far but only a little each time ,have you any idea what temp i should keep him at as he in house now on heat pad in a towl ..thanks for reply


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## Pidgey

You can keep him under a feather duster and if you can keep the temperature under there about 32 deg C, he should be okay.

Pidgey


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## bulldove

*thanks*

Great thanks that is what he sittin at about 32c /80f ..his crop not emptying very much tho is this ok..he is pooping so should i hold back on the feeding till the mora or just feed as im doing a little every couple of hours or so..


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## Maggie-NC

Hold back on feeding him for a bit until his crop goes down. If you can, purchase some plain yogurt and mix in about 1/4 tsp with the formula. This will help him digest the food. You may need to warm the formula again after you put in the yogurt since the yogurt needs to be refrigerated. We set the bowl with formula in another bowl with hot water and stir a lot until the formula warms up again.

Warmth really helps them. I wouldn't run the risk of putting it back with the parents.


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## bulldove

no i wont put him/her back out ..just plain yogurt ?like bio or anything? all this help is great as he would have died for shure , as im clue less and the pigeon people i no just said there was no chance and they wouldnt have botherd but ive only got three birds and am too chicken hearted to not give it ma all to try n save it..i only left the eggs to hatch for someone wanted a pair but if this one makes it im keeping it ma self.. thanks fae Shirley


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## bulldove

*still going*

Hi just wanted to let yous no he still alive im giving him the kaytee and yogurt ..he pooing more,but he shakes a lot and not very active and very very small ,is this to be expected? he still on heat pad and nice n warm ..he weighs 33grams and is 12 days old ,does anybody think he still got a fighting chance,not that im giving up ,just dont want to be cruel in anyway..


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## Lovebirds

bulldove said:


> Hi just wanted to let yous no he still alive im giving him the kaytee and yogurt ..he pooing more,but he shakes a lot and not very active and very very small ,is this to be expected? he still on heat pad and nice n warm ..he weighs 33grams and is 12 days old ,does anybody think he still got a fighting chance,not that im giving up ,just dont want to be cruel in anyway..


He's got a fighting chance every time he takes a breath.  We don't give up until THEY give up. 33 grams is small for a 12 day old baby, but sometimes babies just don't grow as fast as they should. I've had it happen a time or two. Brother/Sister would be 3 times the size of their nest mate. One particular little bird is now 2 years old and still on the small side but is as healthy as a horse. I didn't even band her until she was 11 days old and they usually get banded at about 6 days old. Just keep feeding and keep watching. How does the poop look? You can post another picture if you want to.


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## bulldove

*more photos*

Hi more photos taken today 3 hours after last feed ,does he look like he needs fed as his crop looks quite fool to me but I'm not shure,he a lot perkier and took more at last feed than before 3 ml to be precise .only feeding about 4 times a day as I'm trying to let the crop go down as much as poss between feeds ,still giving yogurt in with food .His Pooh looks good i think formed dark with little white [great subject] .


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## bulldove

*photo*

this one to


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## Lovebirds

Gosh, he's soooooo little. I think in that second picture, he does look like he needs to be fed. Those little poops do look pretty good to me. I'll be gone most of today, but if you need anything, other members will be around. Just keep feeding him. Glad to hear he's perky.


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## Maggie-NC

Shirley, you are doing a great job. He is so very cute. He looks much younger than 12 days old to me - more like 5-6. If you can, increase his feed to about 8 cc now with each feeding and lets see if he can get a little fatter.  

Just remember, warmth is a key factor and watching the crop. His poop looks good so, hopefully, the yogurt is kicking in.


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## bulldove

I no he looks younger but i can assure you got the dates Right in fact this is a photo of the other chick..can you explain what cc is  I'm only used to measuring in mils as it easy with the syringe but last feed he took 5ml which is double from this morning ..And looking a lot better more active..thanks again from Shirley.


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## philodice

That is #1 chick is a very good looking, healthy and happy baby dove. 

At this point in the growth cycle for a dove, they like to be kept on a warm pad but the don't actually need it. At this point in feathering is when my parent doves always stop sitting on the baby. They continue to feed, but baby starts pecking at seeds. You might try giving the dovelet a deep dish of seeds and just plop him down in it so his feet feel the seedy goodness. Then take your finger and start poking at the seeds like you are pecking. This is how I train my baby doves to eat seed. Then I put a shallow dish of water, and put his feet in it, so he feels the water, and he drinks up the water for the first time. I don't let more than the toes get wet. It is like we eat lunch together. After he pecks at the seeds a bit, I do the baby bird food. See he will peck the seed but might only eat a couple. Try again in a few hours, or the next day. You will be amazed at how quickly #1 learns to feed himself. Perhaps if he is self feeding, you can slip dove #2 back in and see if they will feed him again.
I think your #2 dove is about 5 days behind a normal dove in maturity and size/feathering. My baby doves look like that at 11 days old, also. Food really makes the difference.

Oops I misread, the last picture is of chick #1 but chick #2 is still tiny.


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## TAWhatley

bulldove said:


> can you explain what cc is  I'm only used to measuring in mils as it easy with the syringe


cc's (cubic centimeters) and ml's (milliliters) are the same amount .. one thousandth of a liter.

Terry


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## bulldove

*learn something new every day*

Gee thanks for that ,Ive asked a lot of people and no one new for sure about the [cc] probably cos we all thick .That a great help,chick 2 has taken more and more each feed and took 7mil last feed for the night so hears hoping he takes even more tomorrow.chick 1 seems ok ,should i teach him to feed or just leave it for the parents..? .I'm not putting chick 2 back in cos they no sitting on any of them anymore ..oh i and does chick 2 still need to be on the heat mat? Thanks again all ..Shirley


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## Lovebirds

bulldove said:


> Gee thanks for that ,Ive asked a lot of people and no one new for sure about the [cc] probably cos we all thick .That a great help,chick 2 has taken more and more each feed and took 7mil last feed for the night so hears hoping he takes even more tomorrow.chick 1 seems ok ,should i teach him to feed or just leave it for the parents..? .I'm not putting chick 2 back in cos they no sitting on any of them anymore ..oh i and does chick 2 still need to be on the heat mat? Thanks again all ..Shirley


Well, that sure is a pretty chick #1!! Leave chick #1 for the parents. It is not ready to learn to self feed. His parents will take care of that. Yes, chick#2 needs to stay on a heat source until he gets some feathers which might be another week, maybe more.


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## philodice

Yeah, I would treat chick 2 like a 5 day old bird. Poor thing is way behind. Keep that on the heating pad. And I only mentioned the 'teaching to feed' thing just in case the parents stop feeding chick 1, you will have one less question to ask.


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## bulldove

*sorry me again*

I must be doing a lot of heads in,sorry but I'm posting more yes more photos, Ive been trying to give him 8ml as someone suggested but he took 8ml this morning no prob,then 7ml ok but last feed i only gave him 5ml as i think he looks like he going to burst ? cos for all Ive had baby's before never monitored what the crop looked like in such great detail and don't want to under or over feed


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## Lovebirds

That baby is PLENTY full, especially in that last picture. You're doing great, but I wouldn't push it that far at every feeding. You are right to feed until it's full and not necessarily a measured amount, although measuring it is fine. Just don't feel like you HAVE to give 7 ML just because you did at the last feeding.


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## bulldove

Oh thanks for reply ,so if i feed him till he this full it ok then .gosh cant say how much this has been a life saver my family fed up listening to me go on about what to do with this chick .. and they fed up not getting rear pc for me checking for replies .but nae luck make a change ..i was looking at all the pics of people on pigeon talk ,great idea good to put a face to who you talking to ..thanks Shirley..


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## Lovebirds

bulldove said:


> Oh thanks for reply ,so if i feed him till he this full it ok then .gosh cant say how much this has been a life saver my family fed up listening to me go on about what to do with this chick .. *and they fed up not getting rear pc for me checking for replies* .but nae luck make a change ..i was looking at all the pics of people on pigeon talk ,great idea good to put a face to who you talking to ..thanks Shirley..


LOL......that is funny. We went through the same thing, so we now have 2 computers. My husband gets stuck upstairs in the office with his and mine is a laptop downstairs in the kitchen so I can cook and do PT, watch the loft and do PT, talk on the phone and do PT, play with Walley (my cockateil) and do PT, etc...............


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## Maggie-NC

Shirley, he is pretty full but I don't think too full. However, I would hold off feeding again until last thing this evening to give him a bit before he goes to bed for the night. As long as he is pooping well and staying warm he should be fine. Looks like he has already grown quite a bit.

We go by the crop too and sometimes have gone as long as 5-6 hours waiting for it to go down before feeding them again.


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## Rooster2312

Hi Shirley, Welcome to Pigeon Talk!

I'm from Dundee and wanted to thank you for helping this baby dove. You are doing a great job.

Lindi


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## bulldove

Its my pleasure to be helping this little dove,Its a time in my life i wont ever forget .I live half way between Edinburgh and Glasgow. And while im on [yes another question] Does anyone no how to tell the sex of doves and if so at what age can you tell ? Im hoping this is little girl as ive got a very lonely boy


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## Maggie-NC

LOL, doves are harder to sex than pigeons, to me. You won't know until, and if, it lays an egg.


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## bulldove

*still going strong*

Just wanted to say the wee chick still going strong ,i will post more photos tomorrow ..


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## Lovebirds

bulldove said:


> Just wanted to say the wee chick still going strong ,i will post more photos tomorrow ..


That's good to hear. You must be doing a fantastic job. Look forward to the pictures.


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## maryjane

I have missed this thread.....you are doing a great job. I have a very small pigeon who was very behind in growth and development, he is three months or so now and finally just finished feathering completely. He is still quite small, smaller than a dove. I had to hand feed him for much longer than the other baby I was feeding near his age. It took him at least two months to start eating seeds. But he doesn't seem to be mentally disabled, just physically slow to develop, and like I said he's just fine now. So keep up the good work and please feel free to ask all the questions you like.


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## bulldove

*help,photos*

Hi hear are some photos taken before and after feed at 7pm tonight..he was last fed before that at 2.30pm as I'm trying to leave it long enough for crop to go down ,but must say that I'm a bit worried as it doesn't go down as much as i would like so at the 7pm feed i watered the feed down more so it was very runny as it said on the packet to do this for slow crop,I'm also still giving him natural yogurt every feed [1 quarter of a tea spoon] The first one before feed ,second two after.Any comments or ideas would be very help full as i don't no whether to feed again tonight before bed or leave till crop goes right down..


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## bulldove

*another photo*

this is also one before feed


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## Pidgey

That looks like more crop than bird.

Pidgey


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## Lovebirds

I would not feed the bird again tonight. The picture of BEFORE the feeding is more like what the crop should look like AFTER he's been fed. I would leave him until morning and see if all that food digests.
I just looked at the pictures again, and even the before picture looks a bit much. I wouldn't pack his crop quite that full. That's my opinion anyway.


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## bulldove

*crop*

Thanks i thought the same but as i said I'm clueless as you all no by now Just cant do right for doing wrong..poor wee bird got landed wa me ,just na luck He only getting at most 10 ml/cc per feed obviously it varies from feed to feed ..he on the heat mat at the lowest setting but he feels really warm is that ok ,or am i just doing your heads in now..cos I'm doing mine in Gosh this is scary just don't want to hurt him...


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## Lovebirds

Do you have any way to measure how much heat there is? A themometer maybe? They CAN get too warm but since he don't have any feathers, he does need the heat. I'm not sure exactly what the temp should be. ANYONE?


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## Lovebirds

Is that thing under the baby with the duck pictures on it the heating pad?


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## bulldove

*heat*

Oh yes ment to say he on heat mat but he is also in the house in a cat carrier box ,so does he still need the mat?


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## bulldove

No lol ..the thing under him wa the duck. is the table mat.. i take him out his box and rap him in a towel to feed him


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## TAWhatley

Oh My! Yes, you definitely need to let that little one empty the crop before feeding again, and that could well take a good amount of time. It probably does need the supplemental heat from the heating pad, but try to make sure it isn't too hot for the little one. Baby doves and pigeons do feel very, very warm (almost hot) to the touch. If you think the heating pad is making the baby too hot, you can add a layer of folded towel between the heating pad and the baby.

Continued good luck with this little one!

Terry


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## bulldove

*chick in bed*

This is him in bed ,he likes to go to the back with his back to you ,relay likes the cover over him like a wee tent but he gets to warm.also big chick looking realy good


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## bulldove

he dose feel hot to touch and i already rapped the heat pad in a towel to keep it clean and so as it not to hot for him so the heat think probably ok just wasnt shure it ok for him to feel like a little hot water bottle.thanks Shirley


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## Lovebirds

This is going to go against everything that we've told you.......... and since you are there and we are not, you will have to make the decision. Every baby that I ever had to hand raise was found cold and almost dead in my loft. I always bring them in, put them on a heating pad and get them warmed up. After that, I have never kept my babies on a heating pad all the time. I always kept them covered lightly with lots of towels and stuff around them. Then at night, I would put them in one of my bathrooms that is very warm and they have always done fine. So, if you feel the baby is too warm and you're house is nice and warm, he may be just fine without the heat pad. I'll leave that up to you though. If they get too hot, that's not good, but if they get too cold, that's not good either. Maybe take the suggestion to put another towel between the baby and the heat.

Oh, forgot...........that's a nice little house you have him in. He looks cozy and his little nest mate is looking really good!!

Looks like we were posting at the same time.


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## bulldove

Thanks Renee yes just one o those things ill have to deside by my self as you say you there me here..and photos dont allways do him justis as im taking them with my phone..will leave him till the morning and see if that crop goes down..and take it from there..thanks again


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## Maggie-NC

Shirley, definitely don't feed him anything until tomorrow. As to the warmth, baby pigeons usually feel warm if they are comfortable. I would continue to keep him on the heating pad. He really needs the warmth to help the crop go down. I keep our pad on low but place a folded hand towel over it, then the box the baby is in which is lined with newspaper, a paper towel and another hand towel or wash cloth. The bottom is warm but isn't too hot for the baby. I'm constantly putting my hand on the bottom to make sure it doesn't get too hot. You can always add another folded hand towel if you're worried.


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## bulldove

*feed*

Didnt feed him till 11.30 am and only gave him 5ml waterd down to 3 /4 part water to 1 part kaytee and quarter tea spoon of yogurt ..then fed him again at 3.55pm with same amount again..his crop has went down still alittle food at bottom of crop ,he was all saggy wont even say what it looked like so am i right to feed him but small amounts waterd down more  ..cos he was starving and going crazy when ever i went near him..this is a photo of him this afternoon ,before he was fed not a good one i no but he kept moving..


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## Lovebirds

It's possible that the crop became stretched a bit by feeding so much yesterday. If that's the case, I'm not sure what to do about that. I think I would go ahead and feed him small amounts 4 times a day or so. We don't want him to be hungry. He's to little for that, but just not stuffed quite as much as yesterday. 
Let's see who else is on line and what they say about the crop being stretched. I know that can happen, I've just never experienced it myself.


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## Maggie-NC

I agree with Renee but would suggest you increase the amount of Kaytee so it won't be quite as watery. The baby has to have food so I would give him another 5 cc so long as it doesn't enlarge the crop like yesterday. We try to give it in little "squirts" and keep check on the crop as we feed it. The crop needs to be soft and feel like a plump cushion.

It really is hard to know what to do when you have one that is not doing well.


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## Lovebirds

Lady Tarheel said:


> I agree with Renee but would suggest you increase the amount of Kaytee so it won't be quite as watery. The baby has to have food so I would give him another 5 cc so long as it doesn't enlarge the crop like yesterday. We try to give it in little "squirts" and keep check on the crop as we feed it. The crop needs to be soft and feel like a plump cushion.
> 
> It really is hard to know what to do when you have one that is not doing well.


Thanks Maggie. Hasn't someone here put sort of a sling or something around the crop of baby that had a stretched crop? Seems like I've read that here before but have no idea who it was or if it's even needed in this case. It just seems that this babies crop is sagging a bit in the last picture. Is that even a problem? I don't know.


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## Charis

Lovebirds said:


> Thanks Maggie. Hasn't someone here put sort of a sling or something around the crop of baby that had a stretched crop? Seems like I've read that here before but have no idea who it was or if it's even needed in this case. It just seems that this babies crop is sagging a bit in the last picture. Is that even a problem? I don't know.


You are right, Renee. It looks like the baby has a stretched out crop and needs a crop bra to lift the crop so it can empty. It's easy to make one and after a day or two the crop goes back to normal, after being supported. I take some vet wrap and put it under the crop and wings and fasten it on the back. Not too tight...just to get the crop in a normal position. The thing that's great about the vet wrap is that it sticks to itself and is easy to remove or adjust.


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## bulldove

*Hi*

Hi thanks again for looking ,this is becoming quite a drama  I fed him again at 8.30pm and gave him 6ml and not so watery [but not thick either] as he so hungry ,the crop has went down and looking better but it certainly is saggy so i will feed him again late tonight but will only give him small amounts and work it up slowly. So about the saggy crop  i noticed if this of any relevance when the crop down he can stand but after feed he cant ,just crawls pushing the crop..but as i said he is a lot better very active now ,and chirping a lot more but think that more to do with feed me  does anybody think i will have to use a crop bra and if so has anyone got any photos of what to do .please ..sorry for being such a pain..and what is vet wrap?


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## Lin Hansen

Hi Everyone

One of our members Izzy had crop problems....here is her thread:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=8124)

It might contain some info that can be of some use.

Also,

The following comes from this post which comes from the above thread:
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=51752&postcount=16

"Just for reference any future emergencies, I used a childs sock for a crop bra, cutting out holes for the wings, it does have to be tight enough to support the crop (lifting it slightly to the right hight for the crop muscles to pull the food through), but not overtight where it can trap the food even more."

Good luck with the dove...

Linda


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## Maggie-NC

Shirley, I have never used the crop bra but it should work.

I was thinking about your baby this afternoon and wanted to suggest that you feed it a few pieces of soaked dog/cat food. That is pretty easy to digest and you could dip the pieces in a bit of yogurt as you feed him. It may help him gain weight too.

We use Science Diet small bites - don't know what is available in Scotland but any good quality small pieces should do fine. I just soak a handful in really hot water for about an hour. You don't want the pieces to be soggy so I sometimes have to drain the water off and absorb the excess water with a clean kitchen towel. Cut in halves or quarters, dip into the yogurt and give him about 5 pieces. You open his beak, place the piece at the back of his throat and he will swallow.


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## bulldove

are you talking about dried complete dog/cat food or tined meat?


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## bulldove

*crop bra*

Not sure about this crop bra, just cant picture or not sure I'm picturing the right thing ? dose it just strap around the bottom of crop or it all?


----------



## bulldove

And if i give him dog/cat food would i still give him the kaytee at same feed ?


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## Maggie-NC

I'm talking about dry dog/cat food that comes in a bag and you would not feed it the Kaytee at the same time. The soaked food has plenty of moisture so it wouldn't need any additional water.


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## bulldove

Just that i have two dogs and feed them dried dog food [DR JOHNS SILVER] would i soak it fully? they are quite big pieces so would only give him 1 or 2 ..ive just fed him at 12am 7ml kaytee and yogurt felt bad tho as he took it in no time and squeaking like mad ..on a good note if there is one ,if it wasn't for his crop he doing great a lot more alert. Is there any thing i could buy to give him instead of the bra crop as I'm scared i do it wrong ,well lets face it Ive no done much right


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## bulldove

OR i could just buy the science diet stuff you use as im sure ive saw that in the shops,is it the adult or puppy..


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## Maggie-NC

Shirley, try a few pieces tomorrow of the kind of dry food you already have. You would need to break it up into smaller pieces for him. I would try feeding him that for one of his meals for a day or so and see how he tolerates it.

If you can get Purina Kitten Chow in Scotland, that is a good brand too. The Science Diet we buy is the Adult Small Bites.

I don't know what to tell you about the bra. You could try rolling up a towel like a donut and putting him in the center and prop his crop up on it.

And, don't even think that you have done nothing right because you have done so much for him. The main thing is he is still alive and that is all because of you.


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## bulldove

*photos of bra crop*

this is a photo of the crop bra i made and his crop 2 hours after last feed and me trying it on him ..i took it off as i think i need to wait till crop as empty as can bee and nearer to next feed? he wasn't happy at all but he wanted fed as well cos i picked him up .if anyone can let me no if this looks ok or not that would be great


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## bulldove

*photos*

therest of phots


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## Lovebirds

I think that crop bra looks pretty darn good, since I've never seen one.  I think that as long as it's lifting up the sagging part that it should work just fine. You are doing such a great job.


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## bulldove

Gee thanks lol that has to be the funnies thing Ive ever made far less done ,and cos he so tiny it was very footery  so Ive taken more photos YES MORE  As i put the bra  on him at 11.AM then gave him 2ml of hot water ,gave him a wee massage then at 1.PM fed him 7ml kaytee and TINY bit of dog food just to see how he would take it ,nae bother just messy..so might give him dog food next feed.Any comments or advice ALWAYS WELCOME..THANKS Shirley


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## bulldove

This photo and the last 3 all after feed at 1.45PM today


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## philodice

You are doing a great job, the dove looks great and I saw he was standing up.


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## bulldove

Yes he definitely getting stronger..


----------



## bulldove

*crop bra*

 I'm not liking or more he not liking the crop bra ,has any one any idea if he need to wear it all the time and for how long .thanks Shirley


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## bulldove

Hi meant to ask has anyone got any photos of baby chick's crop to give me a better idea what it should actually look like ?


----------



## bulldove

*papaya*

Threw reading other threads i saw that papaya enzymes is good for digestion.so Ive been looking on line for a store nearer me to buy some but it only said chewable tablets would these be ok to crush or am i looking at the wrong thing?And does anybody think this would be a good idea to give him [papaya enzymes] i mean not necessarily the chewable ones..


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## bulldove

Got the papaya but could only get chewable ones ,so if anyone thats has used them could give me any information that would be very welcome


----------



## Lovebirds

bulldove said:


> Hi meant to ask has anyone got any photos of baby chick's crop to give me a better idea what it should actually look like ?


Here's a couple of babies that I have right now. These are being fed by their parents though.......not me.  
Just so you know, when I hand feed a baby, I don't ever get the crop as full as these babies. I'd rather feed it smaller amounts more often than feed it too much at one time. I guess the parents know what they are doing......sometimes we don't know what's best.  
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=275128&postcount=17


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## Lovebirds

bulldove said:


> Got the papaya but could only get chewable ones ,so if anyone thats has used them could give me any information that would be very welcome


I don't recall ever hearing anything about giving papaya. Someone else will have to answer that one.


----------



## Lovebirds

bulldove said:


> I'm not liking or more he not liking the crop bra ,has any one any idea if he need to wear it all the time and for how long .thanks Shirley


Like I said before, I've never done this with the crop bra, but I would think he needs to wear it all the time for probably a week or so. Just a guess on my part.


----------



## TAWhatley

I would wait for some responses about the papaya. I know papaya is sometimes used for rabbits that are approaching stasis, but I'm not sure that we want to be adding another dimension to the crop situation of this little bird right now. My concern is that we may end up causing sour crop and then have that to deal with.

I'd agree with Renee about needing to leave the crop bra on for at least a number of days if the diet is going to continue to be a liquid one for the most part. The liquid is heavy and the weight will continue to pull the crop down. Small feedings more frequently may be the way to go or start feeding small liquid meals half the time and feed the soaked kibble the other half ??? don't really know .. just thinking a bit as I write.

Terry


----------



## bulldove

Well thanks again ,i think Ive got cot up in reading to much and to much info ,every body dose it different i no so i agree I'm going to give the papaya a miss for now anyway and I'm afraid iv took the bra off.I took him to a pigeon freind of mine and what i thought was a half filled crop he said was empty ,and all he seemed to be doing lately was squeaking and my freind said it cos he hungry..he agrees that he don't no anything about hand rearing as they never do,so Ive been feeding him till crop plump not bursting and more often as I'm giving him the minimum amount to satisfy and he not chirping nearly as much...GOD only noes if I'm doing the right thing but he seems more happy so I'm more happy and only time will tell THANKS ALL..Shirley ps Thanks Renne for photos VERY NICE


----------



## bulldove

loosing the plot now,think I'm going to need a psychiatrist after this lol Ive put the crop bra back on ,poor wee bird dosnt now what happening but hey neither do i...


----------



## TAWhatley

bulldove said:


> loosing the plot now,think I'm going to need a psychiatrist after this lol Ive put the crop bra back on ,poor wee bird dosnt now what happening but hey neither do i...


Seems to me that you've got very good instincts and a lot of common sense .. now that you've got a TON of information assimilated, I think you should carry on from here with what seems right to you and comfortable for the little bird. BUT .. please keep us posted!  

Terry


----------



## bulldove

Thanks Terry


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## bulldove

*feed*

Can anybody tell me how long i should keep feeding the kaytee hand feeding formula, and what to go on to next?the chick has started getting his white spikes as i call them and now weighs 100 grams ,he swallowing the steeped dog food no problem only give him that once a day ,tho don't no whether to up that or not cos don't no what he get the most goodness out of .Also should i give him separate drinks of water as i haven't been .


----------



## Lovebirds

bulldove said:


> Can anybody tell me how long i should keep feeding the kaytee hand feeding formula, and what to go on to next?the chick has started getting his white spikes as i call them and now weighs 100 grams ,he swallowing the steeped dog food no problem only give him that once a day ,tho don't no whether to up that or not cos don't no what he get the most goodness out of .Also should i give him separate drinks of water as i haven't been .


You probably need to stick with the Kaytee for a few more days. Everyone says that as long as they are getting Kaytee, you don't need to give them water. I however, always gave my babies a bit to drink after they ate. I just trickled the water along the side of their beak and let them swallow it. I NEVER squirt it IN the mouth as I was always afraid of the water going down the wrong pipe. After he gets a few feathers, you can start giving him a few seeds. We'll do that when the time comes.


----------



## bulldove

Thanks Renee your a star...


----------



## pigeonperfect

bulldove said:


> Can anybody tell me how long i should keep feeding the kaytee hand feeding formula, and what to go on to next?the chick has started getting his white spikes as i call them and now weighs 100 grams ,he swallowing the steeped dog food no problem only give him that once a day ,tho don't no whether to up that or not cos don't no what he get the most goodness out of .Also should i give him separate drinks of water as i haven't been .


Hello...
Haven't been on the site lately but read some of the posts regarding your baby. Generally speaking, when parents don't feed a baby, it indicates that there is something wrong with it. You may be able to keep it alive, however, often times they don't make it. A baby should thrive without all kinds of drama when you take over it's care. Seems to me that so much has been done outside of what is normal.

Ok, don't overfeed...causes the crop to droop. When the crop is empty, you'll see that, then you can feed again. They should be pooping relative to the amount of food they are being given. If they are not and the crop remains full more than say, a couple of hours, the baby is not passing the food. This is sometimes due to canker...a blockage of the crop. If you feed the wrong things, you can impact the crop. To clear that out an equal mixture of vinegar and water should be given. 

Exact is a good start for the bird. You can alternate at this point, seed. To administer seed, use an inverted 20cc, for instance, syringe holder. Syringes are sometimes contained in a tube w/a cap. Remove the cap from the empty container, fill with wild seed or pigeon seed...wild seed at this point because of the age of the bird, cut a 1/2 inch slice down the center of a piece of vet wrap. You'll place that cut area over the open end of the syringe holder and use a rubber band to secure it around the side. You'll invert the feeder putting the opening of the vet wrap over the mouth of the pigeon. Seed will falle into the mouth of the bird. It may take a few tries to get him adjusted to this, but the procedure actually mimics the parents as they feed seed to young birds. Always offer water after seed feedings. 

I've raised wild pigeons over many years at various different stages. I had been a wildlife rehabilitator in NJ for many years, and much of my bird focus was and still is, pigeons. 

I hope this helps. 

Renee


----------



## pigeonperfect

pigeonperfect said:


> Hello...
> Haven't been on the site lately but read some of the posts regarding your baby. Generally speaking, when parents don't feed a baby, it indicates that there is something wrong with it. You may be able to keep it alive, however, often times they don't make it. A baby should thrive without all kinds of drama when you take over it's care. Seems to me that so much has been done outside of what is normal.
> 
> Ok, don't overfeed...causes the crop to droop. When the crop is empty, you'll see that, then you can feed again. They should be pooping relative to the amount of food they are being given. If they are not and the crop remains full more than say, a couple of hours, the baby is not passing the food. This is sometimes due to canker...a blockage of the crop. If you feed the wrong things, you can impact the crop. To clear that out an equal mixture of vinegar and water should be given.
> 
> Exact is a good start for the bird. You can alternate at this point, seed. To administer seed, use an inverted 20cc, for instance, syringe holder. Syringes are sometimes contained in a tube w/a cap. Remove the cap from the empty container, fill with wild seed or pigeon seed...wild seed at this point because of the age of the bird, cut a 1/2 inch slice down the center of a piece of vet wrap. You'll place that cut area over the open end of the syringe holder and use a rubber band to secure it around the side. You'll invert the feeder putting the opening of the vet wrap over the mouth of the pigeon. Seed will falle into the mouth of the bird. It may take a few tries to get him adjusted to this, but the procedure actually mimics the parents as they feed seed to young birds. Always offer water after seed feedings.
> 
> I've raised wild pigeons over many years at various different stages. I had been a wildlife rehabilitator in NJ for many years, and much of my bird focus was and still is, pigeons.
> 
> I hope this helps.
> 
> Renee


One more thing about giving water. Pigeons drink by putting their beak into water and sucking it up...unlike other birds who do that and then tilt their head back to swallow.

Take a small dish, about 1 inch deep and put the baby's beak into the dish. They should drink all on their own. This is natural behavior for them. Again, this may take a couple tries, but the baby should get it.


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## Lovebirds

Good morning Shirley.......well, it's morning here anyway........LOL
How's the little one today? I'm on my way out to the loft. Will check in later. Any new pictures? 
PS: That's a different "Renee" above, obviously.


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## bulldove

Yes did wonder about the same name for a minute lol.Well good news he seems to be doing great all tho don't want to jinx things got more photos ,he getting more spikes bye the day and feeding and poohing more and more ,i put his ring on yesterday so to me he like a 10 day chick when he is really 25 days but hey so what he still alive and looking good,reading the post from the other Renee [thanks by the way] I'm really not sure about the syringe contraption you talking about and i will have to find some where that sells them as Ive only got 5ml ones for kids medicine,don't no if ma chemist will sell that size or maybe a garden center? when i give him the dog food i break it up into tiny pieces and open his beak and pop it in the front and he gobbles it down,but don't fancy doing that with seed as will be there all day lol ,so I'm going to look on you tube or other threads to see if i can find a video or some pics.so this pic taken today ...Shirley


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## Lovebirds

Well, he's looking very good. You've made it this far without a syringe........I don't think I would worry about it so much. Just keep doing what you are doing. In another few days, you can start giving him seeds along with the formula. You're doing a GREAT job......


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## bulldove

He is looking good I'm so chuffed  .his parents on the other hand are crazy birds ,they are fighting like mad ever since the chicks came along [Jack] the daddy wont let [Vick] the mum near chick 1.I was going to let them hatch another chick but the way they been acting i don't think it would be a good idea ,wont be long till chick1 goes to new home but at least it wont have them fighting around it. Thanks Again Shirley


----------



## Lovebirds

bulldove said:


> He is looking good I'm so chuffed  .his parents on the other hand are crazy birds ,they are fighting like mad ever since the chicks came along [Jack] the daddy wont let [Vick] the mum near chick 1.I was going to let them hatch another chick but the way they been acting i don't think it would be a good idea ,wont be long till chick1 goes to new home but at least it wont have them fighting around it. Thanks Again Shirley


From the sounds of things, I think that's a wise decision to not let them raise another baby. Not right now anyway. Maybe they need a break. For the most part, pigeon parents do what they are supposed to do, but you can get those strange birds that have to "go against the grain"...........


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## bulldove

OK think it could be time for some seed ,but cant get a hold of a 20ml syringe so far ,was thinking of hand feeding him a little along with the kaytee at same feed . should i steep the seed first ? and is there certain seed i should give? I'm giving other birds breed and wean .Thanks Shirley


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## bulldove

Hello is there anybody still listening lol or have yous all got fed up of the crazy woman ha ha . oh well just in case ,can anybody tell me if i need to still gee wee chick yogurt every feed? and when to take him off the heat mat?not that I'm in a rush to stop any of them just don't want to keep doing it if I'm not supposed to any more....he still doing good  still on the kaytee and gave him a few seeds [very small ones] and he took them no problem but still wont drink ,keep dipping his beak each feed and run water along it with my fingers till he gets the hang of it...hope yous all well Shirley


----------



## Lovebirds

bulldove said:


> Hello is there anybody still listening lol or have yous all got fed up of the crazy woman ha ha . oh well just in case ,can anybody tell me if i need to still gee wee chick yogurt every feed? and when to take him off the heat mat?not that I'm in a rush to stop any of them just don't want to keep doing it if I'm not supposed to any more....he still doing good  still on the kaytee and gave him a few seeds [very small ones] and he took them no problem but still wont drink ,keep dipping his beak each feed and run water along it with my fingers till he gets the hang of it...hope yous all well Shirley


Hey Shirley, I was gone yesterday and don't know how I missed your post. 
I would certainly start giving this little guy some seeds. What kind of pigeon mix do you have? Does it have peas in it? Those are the easiest to feed one by one if you don't have a syringe. I've never used a syringe when feeding seeds. I just do seed pops. One at a time. Slow? yes........but it DOES work. I would keep doing the formula but give maybe a dozen seeds twice a day for a couple of days. It won't take but a few more days for him to learn what the seeds are. Let him see the bowl you keep the seeds in so he knows where they are coming from. He'll learn to recognize that as meaning, "it's time to eat".........
As far as yogurt. I don't believe you need to give that to him every day. Or if you want to, just give it once a day. I also doubt that he really needs a heat source any more. He was getting pretty feathery a few days ago. He should be fine now in just his little carrier with a fluffy towel near by to snuggle with.


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## bulldove

Thanks again Renee that all sounds great just off to feed him the now ,then cuddle time watching the telly  thanks Shirley.....


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## Lovebirds

bulldove said:


> Thanks again Renee that all sounds great just off to feed him the now ,then cuddle time watching the telly  thanks Shirley.....


Next time you post and no one answers, send me a PM. I was on line last night until 8:00 and again a few times today and just missed your post somehow. Just *YELL *at me........and tell me to look at your post. I'm on my way again here in a little while. Have fun cuddling......


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## bulldove

Thanks again,his crop empty this morning except for some peas so haven't given any peas today so far at least until i cant feel the others just Incas I'm not supposed to ?and should i give him a pinch of grit now cos of the peas and if so how often? sorry for all the questions .the other chick is 29 days old today and Ive had to bring him in as well now as the parents fighting like crazy ,but OK when he no there and i need to no if he can feed himself before i can re home him ,so far he not done anything think he just unsettled with the surroundings so will give him till tonight and put him back if he doesn't eat anything unless you can suggest anything better..ive been pocking my finger in the seed and offered him it off the hand but nothing but will keep trying every hour or so...


----------



## Lovebirds

bulldove said:


> Thanks again,his crop empty this morning except for some peas so haven't given any peas today so far at least until i cant feel the others just Incas I'm not supposed to ?and should i give him a pinch of grit now cos of the peas and if so how often? sorry for all the questions .the other chick is 29 days old today and Ive had to bring him in as well now as the parents fighting like crazy ,but OK when he no there and i need to no if he can feed himself before i can re home him ,so far he not done anything think he just unsettled with the surroundings so will give him till tonight and put him back if he doesn't eat anything unless you can suggest anything better..ive been pocking my finger in the seed and offered him it off the hand but nothing but will keep trying every hour or so...


I wouldn't give the baby grit. I've never given any I raised any grit and they did just fine. The other baby will probably start eating as soon as it settles down. Did you have feed where the baby could get to it? The parents of course usually teach them to eat and I would think at his age, they would have done this by now. Anyway, sounds like things are going good so far. Let us know what happens later today.


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## bulldove

OK will post later ,tempted to put him back for them to feed him but I'm not going to will give it till tonight at least ,cos hope he will get hungry enough and eat on his own..


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## Maggie-NC

Shirley, just be sure he doesn't go too long without food. I'm really proud of you for raising this baby. And, no, he doesn't need grit now.


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## bulldove

Lady Tarheel said:


> Shirley, just be sure he doesn't go too long without food. I'm really proud of you for raising this baby. And, no, he doesn't need grit now.


what chick you talking about ? chick 1 big chick started eating seed him self all tho not lots but think he just a little unsettled and going to new home tomorrow  Little chick number2 still feeding him kaytee only not the seed till other seed digests....


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## Lovebirds

bulldove said:


> what chick you talking about ? chick 1 big chick started eating seed him self all tho not lots but think he just a little unsettled and going to new home tomorrow  Little chick number2 still feeding him kaytee only not the seed till other seed digests....


I believe she was talking about Number 1 chick, because you said something about putting it back with the parents and then not but waiting...........
anyway, if you say he's self feeding then you should be ok. He might not eat a full meal everytime he eats but just keep seeds in front of him all the time. He'll eat when he gets hungry.


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## bulldove

ok ma head all over the place the now  lost track of what chick ha ha..havent put big chick back with parents cos he going the mora so dont want to confuse him anymore or his parents ...just off to give wee chick last feed of the night.....


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## bulldove

Hi everyone ,big chick away  .but little chick still taking up all my time so hardly got time to notice he all fluffy the now and still feeding the kaytee and peas but he still wont drink so Ive been watering down the kaytee a little more so as there is enough water for the peas he getting,think I'm doing the right thing but hey I'm never sure will post more photos first chance i get...Shirley


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## Lovebirds

bulldove said:


> *Hi everyone ,big chick away * .but little chick still taking up all my time so hardly got time to notice he all fluffy the now and still feeding the kaytee and peas but he still wont drink so Ive been watering down the kaytee a little more so as there is enough water for the peas he getting,think I'm doing the right thing but hey I'm never sure will post more photos first chance i get...Shirley



What does that mean? You put a frowning face......that's why I ask. Glad to hear to little guy is doing good. Look forward to pictures.


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## bulldove

the frown was for big chick away ...


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## Lovebirds

bulldove said:


> the frown was for big chick away ...


He died? He flew away? Sorry........don't understand.


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## bulldove

LOL sorry he went to new home...hadent thought to say cos already mentioned he going to new home..here are some new pics..im a bite worried about his wings as cant recall any of my other birds wings being like this


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## Lovebirds

Oh, he's really growing now!! I think that's called "angel wings"........I've had babies before who's wing feathers looked like that and I've never had a problem. Not sure if there's anything that can or should be done about it? 
As for CHICK #1.........I didn't remember anything about him going to a new home..........but I'm glad that's what happened to him!! You SCARED me.....


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## Lovebirds

OK. Forget what I said about angel wings. I think I was wrong about that after looking it up. I think now, that this baby is just so far behind, but will be ok when he finally gets grown up. I wouldn't worry about the feathers right now. Give him a few more days for them to start opening up. I think he'll be fine.


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## bulldove

Yes i agree I'm not going to worry about the wings as just getting him fed and happy are my main things wright now....he still so tiny but getting there and when i look back at photos of a few weeks ago i can hardly believe the difference ...


----------



## philodice

This thread is really amazing. Now he looks like a 16 day old dove.
I had an undersized, slow growing dove that held her wings that way. When she lounges she still likes to put everything down on the perch and tilt sideways. Odd sitting posture but she just sits really relaxed. Like she was totally spoiled growing up.


----------



## Lovebirds

philodice said:


> This thread is really amazing. Now he looks like a 16 day old dove.
> I had an undersized, slow growing dove that held her wings that way. When she lounges she still likes to put everything down on the perch and tilt sideways. Odd sitting posture but she just sits really relaxed. Like she was totally spoiled growing up.


Yea, Shirley has done an excellent job with this little guy. I'm proud of her.


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## bulldove

THANKS FOLKS.. good job you cant see the size of my head after reading that lol...you's should allso be very proud of your selfs as without your help this wee chick would never have made it this far .....


----------



## Lovebirds

bulldove said:


> THANKS FOLKS.. good job you cant see the size of my head after reading that lol...you's should allso be very proud of your selfs as without your help this wee chick would never have made it this far .....


It's a joint effort really..........without our help, maybe he wouldn't have made it, but without you caring enough to FIND the help........he probably wouldn't have made it, so,........I assure you that the health of every single bird is what we think is important and we all try out best.............
I remember how freaked out I was when I found my first little abandoned baby, cold and very near death. And I'd been around pigeons for a few years. But she survived in spite of me.


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## Maggie-NC

Shirley, your baby looks so pretty. You have done a great job.


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## bulldove

OK THINK IT TIME FOR MORE BRAIN PICKING  SHOULD I BE GIVING MORE PEAS AND LESS KAYTEE NOW.. HE PICKS THE PEAS UP BUT JUST SPITS THEM BACK OUT DON'T THINK HE NOWS TO TIP THEM BACK YET SO I PUT THEM TO THE BACK AND HE SWALLOWS THEM NO PROBLEM..IVE BEEN GIVING HIM THE BROWN ONES AS I WAS TOLD THEY ARE FULL OF PROTEIN, AND JUST LEAVE DISH OF SEAD AND WATER IN HIS BOX SO HE CAN PICK AND DRINK IF HE LIKES,STILL GIVING KAYTEE AT EVERY FEED THO, ASWELL AS PEAS...THANKS SHIRLEY


----------



## Lovebirds

bulldove said:


> OK THINK IT TIME FOR MORE BRAIN PICKING  SHOULD I BE GIVING MORE PEAS AND LESS KAYTEE NOW.. HE PICKS THE PEAS UP BUT JUST SPITS THEM BACK OUT DON'T THINK HE NOWS TO TIP THEM BACK YET SO I PUT THEM TO THE BACK AND HE SWALLOWS THEM NO PROBLEM..IVE BEEN GIVING HIM THE BROWN ONES AS I WAS TOLD THEY ARE FULL OF PROTEIN, AND JUST LEAVE DISH OF SEAD AND WATER IN HIS BOX SO HE CAN PICK AND DRINK IF HE LIKES,STILL GIVING KAYTEE AT EVERY FEED THO, ASWELL AS PEAS...THANKS SHIRLEY


Is he drinking water at all? or are you still having to give him a drink? If you've got the time and energy to pop enough seeds into his little mouth to fill him up, then you can do that. It's probably easier though to keep doing what you are doing for a few more days. Have you tried showing him the bowl and swishing your finger around in it to get his attention? All it will take is for him to accidently figure out how to swallow the seeds and he'll go to town on them. In fact, the first few times he eats his self, he just might over do it, so keep an eye on him and don't let him eat too many at one time. 
I found that even after they figure out how to eat, I still would have to show them the water and make little splashes with it to get them to take a drink. It takes a bit longer for them to know that they HAVE to drink water after the eat.


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## bulldove

at every feed i offer water threw out and dip his beak and yes he has finally taken a drink and he seems to splash his beak in it as tho he was having a bath as he ruffles his feathers at same time,also i pick at the seeds with my fingers to try and show him then i feed him some,he will get it one day [hopefully soon  ]but will just bear with it till he does....he always has some peas still in his crop from one feed to another threw out the day is this ok as if i waited till completely empty then he wouldn't get fed much and he only getting 4 feeds a day now ..dosnt take as much kaytee as before cos of peas which i give him about 20 peas a feed do you think this enough ?


----------



## bulldove

*pics 2008*

Ive just read the post about putting pics for 2008 and I'm defiantly posting a pic of my baby and my dog in the pet category  can wait to see every ones pics  ...ive got two dogs one British bull dog and one American cross staffi, thats where i got my name fa the doves and the bull dogs


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## bulldove

hi anybody ..ma wee bird doing ok but he no eating as much ..don't no if i should be worried or no? he still living in house so i put him in the garden in his cat box so as he can see other birds and they can see him just for a little while...as I'm not sure how I'm going to go about putting him out side when the time comes..i don't have a loft or an Avery just two separate cages as only got 3 birds and now 4 ,getting new cages made for this one and other male so really hoping-this wee girl so as they get along as my male very lonly...


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## Lovebirds

bulldove said:


> hi anybody ..ma wee bird doing ok but he no eating as much ..don't no if i should be worried or no? he still living in house so i put him in the garden in his cat box so as he can see other birds and they can see him just for a little while...as I'm not sure how I'm going to go about putting him out side when the time comes..i don't have a loft or an Avery just two separate cages as only got 3 birds and now 4 ,getting new cages made for this one and other male so really hoping-this wee girl so as they get along as my male very lonly...


Do you have anything to weigh him with? I don't normally weigh my babies so I really don't know how much they should weigh, but I've never had one that didn't want to eat........ so I never have been concerned about their weight. It will be quite a while before you know the sex of this baby. It could be at least 4 months old before you know and possibly longer than that.


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## philodice

Try getting smaller seeds. My doves can't eat peas at all.
When teaching to eat I give them a bowl of seed and plop the baby right down in it, and I start pecking the seed with my finger. It seems that feeling seed on the feet triggers pecking. When I put their toes in water, they drink.


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## Littlecoo

philodice said:


> Try getting smaller seeds. My doves can't eat peas at all.
> When teaching to eat I give them a bowl of seed and plop the baby right down in it, and I start pecking the seed with my finger. It seems that feeling seed on the feet triggers pecking. When I put their toes in water, they drink.


I do something like that with my baby doves as well. I also scatter some seed out on a towel or suchlike and place the youngster on that but I have noticed that they do just peck at the seed for a few days before they get the knack of pecking it up and swallowing it. I use smaller seed for baby doves, like a budgie seed mix or similar- they find that easier to pick up and swallow, the peas may be to large for your little one to manage herself, my doves were never all that fond of peas either. She's a sweet little one you've got there and you seem to be doing the right thing by her, she looks well


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## bulldove

Thanks again folks .the feed I'm giving has very small seeds as well as the larger peas ,the peas are easiest for me to hand feed as you can imagine and i wanted to give him/her the best protein etc that i can as well as I'm still feeding kaytee with every feed, so on average he getting 12ml/cc kaytee and 20 to 30 peas every feed 4 times a day...he can pick them up but still cant swallow them back ,i try to encourage him every feed ,also i sprinkle seed at front of his box .maybe just lazy after all why bother when he has a human like me to do it for him  he now weighs 256 grams as i weigh him before and after every feed and how much he has eaten each feed and keep it all logged in a little book ,crazy i no but i did the same with my own baby's as they were premature as well  i no crazy woman lol ..Shirley


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## Lovebirds

bulldove said:


> Thanks again folks .the feed I'm giving has very small seeds as well as the larger peas ,the peas are easiest for me to hand feed as you can imagine and i wanted to give him/her the best protein etc that i can as well as I'm still feeding kaytee with every feed, so on average he getting 12ml/cc kaytee and 20 to 30 peas every feed 4 times a day...he can pick them up but still cant swallow them back ,i try to encourage him every feed ,also i sprinkle seed at front of his box .maybe just lazy after all why bother when he has a human like me to do it for him  he now weighs 256 grams as i weigh him before and after every feed and how much he has eaten each feed and keep it all logged in a little book ,crazy i no but i did the same with my own baby's as they were premature as well  i no crazy woman lol ..Shirley


Sounds good and NO, you're not crazy. Someday, all that stuff you are keeping track of will come in handy if you have to do this again. You'll have something to compare too. 
We'd love to see a new picture when you have time.


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## philodice

bulldove said:


> he now weighs 256 grams


Your dove is officially fatter than 2 of my adult doves right now.  You get a gold star in dove stuffing.


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## bulldove

Like that one gold star in dove stuffing lol


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## bulldove

*more photos*

more photos of wee chick having a bath and my eldest son Aaron getting a kiss


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## Lovebirds

WOW......this is the one you are raising???? He/She appears to be growing like a weed!! That's great.........didn't know (or remember) that it's a little fantail. Sure is cute.


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## bulldove

On a serious note he only gaining about 2 grams a day now , is that normal at this stage? still wont feed himself but keep sprinkling seed in his box in the hope that one day he will...ive still got him staying in the house as my new cages haven't been built yet  and I'm not sure how the other birds will be with him ,so i have been putting him out in the garden in his box so as they all get used to him and him the out doors ..


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## Maggie-NC

Oh, wow, he looks wonderful. How much does he weigh now? He looks good to me and he will start eating on his own. Some can be stubborn so just be patient with him. What a great job you have done. Like Renee, I didn't realize this was a little fantail.


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## bulldove

yes those are photos of my baby ,even my freinds family and neighbors cant believe it the same bird and that he actually survived I'm quite the hero around here  lol . I'm so chuffed but even more I'm so glad he made it and hopefully he will just go from strength to strength now


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## bulldove

Lady Tarheel said:


> Oh, wow, he looks wonderful. How much does he weigh now? He looks good to me and he will start eating on his own. Some can be stubborn so just be patient with him. What a great job you have done. Like Renee, I didn't realize this was a little fantail.


he weighs about 250 grams now


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## bulldove

*help*

gosh can anybody HELP Ive just noticed that my baby has a big boil looking thing on his bum/belly it is below his bum on the bit that looked like his belly button when he was small ,it is/has been leaking yellow Ive took photos ,as i just don't no what to do and i am frantic ,im going to take him to a pigeon freind but will be back on later


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## Lovebirds

Shirley, it's 6:30 here and I've just gotten up. My initial thinking is Canker. Did you take the baby to your friend? What did they say? I believe you need to get this little one on some Canker meds as soon as possible. I can only be on line for a few minutes...............


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## Littlecoo

I enhanced the pics shirley uploaded so they are a bit clearer. Sorry I am really really pressed for time but wanted to do something at least, wish I could do more...will look here 2morrow...hope u r both ok shirl and babe.


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## bulldove

took him to my Friend he gave him a tablet for canker but said it doesn't look like canker ,I'm going to try and find a avian vet in my area ,also my Friend said my bird to thin ,so ill up the feeding but I'm close to tears now  ..


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## bulldove

Littlecoo said:


> I enhanced the pics shirley uploaded so they are a bit clearer. Sorry I am really really pressed for time but wanted to do something at least, wish I could do more...will look here 2morrow...hope u r both ok shirl and babe.


Thanks hope someone has any idea what this is ?


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## bulldove

Gosh if i touch it it protrudes out further haven't found a vet yet but still looking ,also see if it wasn't for that growth thing he seems fine..dont no whether to bath him to get the yellow off his feathers ,but not going to just yet to see if i can find out what it is first..it looks like a hernia to me but I'm clueless


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## Lovebirds

bulldove said:


> Gosh if i touch it it protrudes out further haven't found a vet yet but still looking ,also see if it wasn't for that growth thing he seems fine..dont no whether to bath him to get the yellow off his feathers ,but not going to just yet to see if i can find out what it is first..it looks like a hernia to me but I'm clueless


Shirley, I'm so sorry this is happening. I don't KNOW what it is either, but Canker is the only thing I can think of. I wouldn't give him a bath. It seems like there's not many people on line today.......at least, no one that can help. I sent a message to one member that appears to be on line, but I think they aren't at the computer. I keep watching for someone to come on.........


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## Lovebirds

OK. I've sent a Private Message to 4 different people. All we can do is wait and see if someone gets on line to give you some ideas. At times like this I feel so stupid..........


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## Rooster2312

I wish I could help also but I have never seen anything like this before as I don't know much about illness/injuries to birds. I leave this stuff for the experts here.

Keeping this bird and you, Shirley, in my thoughts and prayers.

Lindi


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## Skyeking

I think the baby may have canker also, and needs treatment with metrodonizole. I hope you do find a good avian vet. 

This is not one you can wait about, as it is life threatening, so I would treat until a vet says it is something else.

Babies can get canker from infected crop milk that falls into the nest pan. It can infect the unhealed navel of a squab. A swelling occurs under the skin around the navel, and appears cheeselike and crumbly.


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## Pidgey

Yeah, that could be anything from canker to an infection to a tumor. That doesn't look like the navel canker that I've seen but it's hard to say. I'd probably treat with an antibiotic like Amoxicillin, and Metronidazole.

Pidgey


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## Whitefeather

At first I didn't think it was canker, although there is yellow staining on the feathers.

A boil or herina, as mentioned had come to mind.

However, after seeing the one very clear picture, there is a yellow spot that resembles a piece of canker. I would defnitely consider that possibility.

I agree with Treesa. Treat for canker ASAP. 

Cindy


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## bulldove

I started treating him for canker today ,just incase as you say ,want to rule out every thing that i can .still no joy with vet but there is one that might help but looking like i wont get hold of them till Monday ..


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## bulldove

Lovebirds said:


> OK. I've sent a Private Message to 4 different people. All we can do is wait and see if someone gets on line to give you some ideas. At times like this I feel so stupid..........


Thanks Renee one's again your a star


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## bulldove

Brace your selfs....the thing ,that now looks like a very large pea has fallen off and left a hole like a Crater ,it is not bleeding or anything but o my god Ive never seen anything like this in my life am posting more photos...oh and if it is canker can i catch it from the bird?


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## Rooster2312

I don't know anything about this but could this be a tear in the crop??

Lindi


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## bulldove

well i don't no either but don't think so as it is just bellow his bottom where it looked like little dot for a belly button ,I'm guessing but i can remember a tiny dot there when he was very little and just assumed it was a belly button and maybe it has been a growth or something that has grown and now pushed itself out


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## Lovebirds

What is that thing? How does it feel? Don't suppose you would be up to cutting it open to see what it is? Is there an actual hole in the baby or is it a deep indentation? What about all the yellow stuff on the feathers? Where did that come from? 
Now, I'm positive that there's not a hole in the crop. If there was, it wouldn't be way down there. 
Actually, from looking at the pictures.......I'm not AS concerned as I was. Let me go back and look at them again............


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## Lovebirds

OH......forgot......no you won't get canker. 
I'm really at a loss as to what the heck this is..........if the skin where this "thing" fell off isn't broken, then I don't know what to tell you except that if it didn't come from INSIDE the bird, it can't be all that terrible. That's MY guess.......


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## Rooster2312

Just another thought . Could this have started out as a crop tear and led to some kind of a fistula?? These can track quite far if untreated.

Lindi


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## Lovebirds

Rooster2312 said:


> Just another thought . Could this have started out as a crop tear and led to some kind of a fistula?? These can track quite far if untreated.
> 
> Lindi


If I'm not mistaken, the picture is from that back of the baby almost to his but, so that's too far back for the crop to be involved I believe.


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## Rooster2312

Yes Renee, just looked at the photo again and it is too near the bottom end.

It would be interesting to know more details about the 'thing' that popped out i.e. Was it hard/soft? 

Lindi


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## bulldove

Well to give yous more detail about the THING ..yes it is hard and as for cutting it open don't no if my stomach could take it ..sorry..i have kept it tho..not as a souvenir but Incas i can take it to a vet,with the bird to see if they have any idea? also the hole that left on my bird is an open crater like wound if you get me ,so if i can get hold of some antibiotics think this would help from any more infection ,he not eaten much to day still got peas in his crop from this afternoon but not surprising with that THING popping out of him gosh Ive felt queasy all day,not to mention worried sick .but who nows tomorow may bring good news...


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## Littlecoo

Rooster2312 said:


> Just another thought . Could this have started out as a crop tear and led to some kind of a fistula??
> Lindi


You could be on to something there... although I'm thinking perhaps a fistula of the lower intestinal tract/ cloacal fistula? The yellow fluid looks like bile to me. Don't take my words as gospel truth, I used to work in nursing (humans) and it's from that that I base my thinking- bird physiology is comparitively new to me. That round object looks for all the world like a fleshy seed from a tree or shrub.


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## bulldove

Update ...well my bird still alive and doing not bad hasn't digested all the peas in crop from yesterday so not going to feed till he has..the Crater looking OK [by that i mean looks clean not oozing anything ] so maybe now that the THING not on/in him he will just get better,and i can feed him up again ,poor wee mite been threw so much just hope he can get threw this and go from strength to strength with a bit of luck and love


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## Rooster2312

Hi Shirley,

Your bird still needs to see a vet as soon as possible to have a proper examination. This 'crater' shouldn't be there and it sounds like there is stasis or rupture of his intestinal tract if he is not digesting his peas from yesterday. Is he still pooping ok?

I agree with littlecoo and the more I look at the 'thing' I recognise this as a rose hip. I've found these seeds in our chinchilla treats. http://www.exoticnutrition.com/chinchilla diet3.jpg

Lindi


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## bulldove

Yes will still take him to vet ,and yes he still pooping OK,and just so as you no ..the Crater is no where near his crop it is just below his bottom ,hard to see in pics cos he a fantail ...I really don't no but i cant see how a pea or seed of some kind could pop out my bird?from that area anyway,but as i said i no nothing


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## bulldove

another couple of pics taken today to give a better veiw of where the thing came from ,as you can see his feathers still yellow but this only because i dont want to bath him because of crator...


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## philodice

1. What a good looking cutie I just want to snuggle and kiss! Awe such a good job you did as a dove Daddy and Mommy!

2. When did this thread become Weird Science? I'd put that thing in a closed jar just in case it 'hatches'. Sometimes humans and animals can get something stuck under the skin and it gets infected and builds a little cyst around itself. Canker, infection, a tumor, or even just an inflamed feather follicle could have started this 'one in a million' oddity. And like a sliver, zit, or a cyst, sometimes these get pushed out of the body naturally. I think it is an internal canker fistula, that started from the unhealed belly of the baby bird. (Just guessing, of course, based on observations of human belly button behavior in newborns.) I would love to have a vet examine it under a microscope.

3. What if it is a rose hip? Even weirder...


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## bulldove

Yip this thread does just seem to be getting weirder by the min,i must admit as well as the tears Ive laughed a lot as well ,no one could say this thread boring that for sure....


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## bulldove

just wanted to let yous no before i go to bed ..the wee chick seems a lot better tonight been fed and had a cuddle so he quite happy and the hole on his belly looking better not so much a hole looking more like if a scab fell off,if you get my meaning ,strange i no .will let yous no if i get an kind of diagnosis


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## Maggie-NC

Shirley, glad to hear the baby is feeling better. I think Philodice had a good point about this "thing" getting stuck on the skin and kept being pushed further in its body.

We got in a rescue several years ago whose crop was a mess. There was a bad looking sore on the outside and when the vet opened it up there was a full-sized acorn lodged in its crop. She removed it and sewed up the crop, put it on antibiotics and the pigeon got fine. She said the acorn may have actually saved its life in that it plugged up the opening in the crop and allowed food to be processed internally rather than coming out the hole. Course, we don't know if the acorn caused the hole to begin with or the crop got a hole in it and the acorn got situated in the right place.


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## bulldove

Ive had my other birds for about 7 years and been very lucky,only had one bird sick ,and after a coarse of tablets she was fine..im just hoping this wee one will be as hardy as them in time.granted it is a wee fighter to get this far with all that it been threw..but i must admit it really got a special spot in my heart oh and he doing good today ,ive stoped the formula and just giving peas now..


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## Lovebirds

bulldove said:


> Ive had my other birds for about 7 years and been very lucky,only had one bird sick ,and after a coarse of tablets she was fine..im just hoping this wee one will be as hardy as them in time.granted it is a wee fighter to get this far with all that it been threw..but i must admit it really got a special spot in my heart oh and he doing good today ,ive stoped the formula and just giving peas now..


That's great news! Is he eating by his self yet, or are you still feeding him?


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## bulldove

He still no eating bye him self so i even gave him a little formula with the peas tonight ,trying to fatten him up as so thin ,he still pecks the seed but wont swallow them...so lazy ..but i keep trying especially before feed when he hungry but nothing yet.. the peas I'm giving is maple peas and trying to get seeds into him as well but they not so easy to hand feed...any suggestions very welcome..


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## little bird

bulldove said:


> He still no eating bye him self so i even gave him a little formula with the peas tonight ,trying to fatten him up as so thin ,he still pecks the seed but wont swallow them...so lazy ..but i keep trying especially before feed when he hungry but nothing yet.. the peas I'm giving is maple peas and trying to get seeds into him as well but they not so easy to hand feed...any suggestions very welcome..


Many years ago before KAYTEE made life easier for rehabbers, we used to cook up a porridge of Cream Of Wheat in a pudding type consistancy and then take a couple tablespoons of porridge and mix it with small bird seed like finch or canary and put it all in a plastic "ziplock" type bag.....cut just the tiny point off one end of the bag and squirt the mixture in the back of the baby's throat and they would easily swallow it. It is kinda like decorating a cake.....the mixture comes out the little hole kinda like a noodle. That's how we got seeds into the young ones before they would pick them up themselves.


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## bulldove

thanks for that information,would that recipe fatten him up quicker than what I'm already giving him? my dad breads canary's and he has given me this stuff that looks like bread crumbs but is in fact some kind of sausage mix ,Ive not used it but he gives it to his young..just with every thing my wee mite been threw Ive not wanted to change feeding..but could be doing with Putin on weight as his skin gray ish blue and i can feel his bone that runs up the middle [don't no what it called] no fat around it and was told bye my friend that that not good..so if you think the feed you used to use would help then if you could give me the recipe in more detail that would be great...good idea with the bag tho as i cant get thick stuff out the syringe ...other than that he doing ok ,the crater healing nicely ,but the yellow on his feathers wont come off looks like it there to stay till he molts...must admit looks funny with his wee yellow bum


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## Maggie-NC

Shirley, if you can get Kaytee Exact in Scotland, I would certainly try feeding him that plus throw some seed in a blender and add that to the Exact. I'm not sure that he can put on weight being fed the peas. Kaytee is a pretty balanced meal in itself. The porridge mix Nona mentioned could be used too with the ground up seed.


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## little bird

Perhaps you could put weigh on him just by getting more food into him which using the bag may improve the quantity you can feed at each time. I wouldn't give him anything that has animal products in it. Canaries feed their young on insects and grubs when they are still in the nest and that's probably what the "sausage like product" is supposed to substitute for in the caged canary diet. Doves & Pigeons are strictly grain feeders so I think it best to stick to what you have along those lines.


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## bulldove

OK so Shirley gets it wrong again ..not looking for sympathy or being sarcastic..just mean Ive been giving less kaytee and more peas..and maybe should have been doing it the other way round to get some weight on him?or maybe i should go for half and half like before the thing popped out his belly..


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## bulldove

I'm going to give the ground up seeds and mix with kaytee ,pop it in a bag and give that a go..as cant get the seeds threw the syringe so will try the bag thing...Thanks Folks..words cant say how grateful i am


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## bulldove

Just wanted to update..tryed the bag technique with kaytee and seeds ,it worked tho he didn't like it much ,so used to syringe method but it did help to get more seed in him,and the crater is a crater no more healed up nicely just a tiny wee bit left and then you wont even no it had been there  will keep you posted might even put another photo up..


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## bulldove

The wee chick is 51days old today and i don't no what to do for best..he still wont eat for himself but not sure if this because I'm still hand feeding..so don't no if i leave him to go hungry he will give in and do it himself ..this is another photo taken the other day..one with my other boy but wee chick at front..his/her tail is like a heart..


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## Lovebirds

bulldove said:


> The wee chick is 51days old today and i don't no what to do for best..he still wont eat for himself but not sure if this because I'm still hand feeding..so don't no if i leave him to go hungry he will give in and do it himself ..this is another photo taken the other day..one with my other boy but wee chick at front..his/her tail is like a heart..


Not 51 days old Not 15 either...........looks more like 25 or so? It's still a wee bit early for him to eat his self. I've had them eating at 16 days old, but this little guy got off to a bad start. Just keep working with him. Does he pick up and swallow any seeds at all? He looks GOOD!! Got to love that tail


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## bulldove

no he picks up but just spits them back out..so you think i should still hand feed for now


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## Lovebirds

bulldove said:


> no he picks up but just spits them back out..so you think i should still hand feed for now


I would do this. Feed him now or whenever it's time............then the next time you feed.......try getting him to pick up seeds. Wait a little longer between feeding.............let him get a bit hungry. Not starving though.........he's going to get this any time now and when he does.......you'll have to watch him cause he'll just eat and eat and eat..........Once he does learn to pick up seeds, you might have to swish your finger around and remind him...........you're getting close though.......


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## bulldove

wee chick still staying in house,all tho Ive been putting him out side during the day..do you think i could move him out side now in his own new cage ? even tho I'm still hand feeding..


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## Lovebirds

bulldove said:


> wee chick still staying in house,all tho Ive been putting him out side during the day..do you think i could move him out side now in his own new cage ? even tho I'm still hand feeding..


If he's got his own cage and the weather is nice, I don't see why not. He's going to be lonely though...............maybe bring him in at night for a while longer?


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## bulldove

*new cages*

This is a photo of my new cages that my partner made for me ,he no joiner but he has done a good job I'm so pleased and so is Toto and now there is one for the Wee Chick and one spare...as my other birds live in a cage in the shed ..I no they are a far cry from the lofts that many of you have in fact they are bigger than my home as i live in a 2 bedroom council house but we all happy ,just need to add a few nicks and knacks but at least Toto has moved in and is very happy..Oh yes and the Wee Chick in trying out his new home for size also


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## bulldove

Yes Renee thats what i was thinking put him out threw the day but bring him in at night at least until he self feeding


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## Lovebirds

bulldove said:


> Yes Renee thats what i was thinking put him out threw the day but bring him in at night at least until he self feeding


How cool/cold is it there during the day?


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## bulldove

The weather here not bad at the moment as we get a lot of rain its about 13c ....the wee chick doing OK still not self feeding and not liking his new home so I'm bringing him in at night..infact he sitting with me the now  he starting to fly now  but keeps trying to get in the house when i let him wander round the garden if the door open he in..think he justs playing me i keep bringing him in as i feel sorry for him..oh well maybe i don't want to let go either bit like the baby sleeping in its own room for first time  lol


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## Lovebirds

Well YOU'RE the one who spoiled the little guy!!!! LOL
It's possible that he'll outgrow wanting to be in the house once he gets a little older and realizes that he IS a pigeon............then again, you may have one spoiled bird on your hands for his whole life. Either way, it's not a bad deal.


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## bulldove

Hi folks hope yous all well .The wee chick is still doing OK BUT always a BUT still no feeding him self..so I'm in a bite of a do i don't i situation ,as don't no if i don't feed him bye hand he will eat bye himself ..any suggestions ?


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## Lovebirds

bulldove said:


> Hi folks hope yous all well .The wee chick is still doing OK BUT always a BUT still no feeding him self..so I'm in a bite of a do i don't i situation ,as don't no if i don't feed him bye hand he will eat bye himself ..any suggestions ?


Hi Shirley,...glad to hear the little guy is doing good. OK. Ever heard of tough love?? Gonna have to give that a try. Feed him his last handfed meal tonight. In the morning, try getting him to eat his self. If he doesn't eat, don't feed him. Try again a little later. If he still doesn't eat, wait a while and try again. He is NOT going to starve to death. If he gets hungry enough he WILL eat. Now by my calculations, he's about 35 to 37 days old. That is PLENTY old enough to be self feeding. Make sure he gets water to drink but if he absolutely will not eat all day tomorrow, then tomorrow night go ahead and feed him a little bit by hand. Then try again the next day. I guarantee you that is you don't give in to him, he'll start eating on his own. 
Have you tried putting him with the other birds so he can see them eat? That might help too. If he's around other birds, he'll try to do whatever they are doing, because he's a pigeon and pigeons are nosey critters.


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## bulldove

Thanks thats what i had in mind just didn't no for sure ..he can see other birds but they all in separate cages but wee chicks and my other bird Toto have a mesh hole partition so as wee chick could watch and learn or so i hoped but he pecks the seed and picks it up just wont swallow,i have water and food in his cage at all times is this OK as just hoped he would start eating one day ,but as you say tuff love the only way to go now  ..oh and he 59 days now but as we no he prem so probably about 30 something in growth ..


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## Lovebirds

bulldove said:


> Thanks thats what i had in mind just didn't no for sure ..he can see other birds but they all in separate cages but wee chicks and my other bird Toto have a mesh hole partition so as wee chick could watch and learn or so i hoped but he pecks the seed and picks it up just wont swallow,i have water and food in his cage at all times is this OK as just hoped he would start eating one day ,but as you say tuff love the only way to go now  ..oh and he 59 days now but as we no he prem so probably about 30 something in growth ..


Well, the fact that he's so behind in growth may account for him being a little slow. Try to get him to eat, but don't be TOO hard on him. He WILL get it eventually.


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## bulldove

Thanks for the comment of ma mug shot ..haven't seen one of you yet but haven't had time to look at them all yet..will try as you said about feeding and see how it goes ,Ive only been feeding him twice a day now any way to break him away from it so will give him till last feed at night to see if he will or not..wont be easy tho but need to try cant keep shoving seeds down his throat for ever..the other scary thing is he no scared of ma dogs but think if he got close enough they would bite him  they used ta ma birds but when they get to close they fly away but cos wee chick been round them so much well he just not scared of nothing for that mater not quite sure how ta handle that one except to keep them apart?


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## bulldove

Was just looking at your home page and you a fine looking woman your self and your home looks wonderful gosh Ive only seen places like that in pictures and on the telly ,far cry from sunny Scotland lol


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## Lovebirds

bulldove said:


> Was just looking at your home page and you a fine looking woman your self and your home looks wonderful gosh Ive only seen places like that in pictures and on the telly ,far cry from sunny Scotland lol


Well, thank you..........that's an OLD picture.........


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## bulldove

Well first day of starvation not gone so good ,I feel terrible as he not ate a thing so I'm giving him till 9pm and I'm going to feed him my self ..then try again tomorrow ..he looks so miserable as he just wants to be with me but i cant take him around with me like i used to as he can fly now all be it not so good and I'm scared he will fly off where i cant get him


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## Lovebirds

bulldove said:


> Well first day of starvation not gone so good ,I feel terrible as he not ate a thing so I'm giving him till 9pm and I'm going to feed him my self ..then try again tomorrow ..he looks so miserable as he just wants to be with me but i cant take him around with me like i used to as he can fly now all be it not so good and I'm scared he will fly off where i cant get him


Poor baby...............wish there was a magic answer............just have to keep trying with him.


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## bulldove

Second day of no hand feeding and still he wont eat bye himself had to hand feed tonight ..gosh this is so hard ,its breaking my heart don't no if I'm going to have to go the full hog and no feed for 24 hours but he so thin this wee bird so stubborn ..all he wants to do is be in the house but that no good as the dogs will get him for sure and i want him to be as free as my other birds,,so I'm not handling him as much  This one crazy wee bird


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## Lovebirds

bulldove said:


> Second day of no hand feeding and still he wont eat bye himself had to hand feed tonight ..gosh this is so hard ,its breaking my heart don't no if I'm going to have to go the full hog and no feed for 24 hours but he so thin this wee bird so stubborn ..all he wants to do is be in the house but that no good as the dogs will get him for sure and i want him to be as free as my other birds,,so I'm not handling him as much  This one crazy wee bird


Sorry he's giving you such a hard time. Don't let him get too hungry that he looses weight. Just not worth it. He'll come around eventually and it may take a bit of time, but none of this is his fault...........feed the poor little bugger.


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## Maggie-NC

Shirley, it won't hurt a bit to feed him at least a good meal at night. He is right in his growing stage and he'll wean himself before too long. So, my advice would be to continue to feed him at least one meal a day.


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## bulldove

Wee update I'm still hand feeding once a day but he has taken a few small peas off my hand and swallowed them  so i keep trying to get him to eat as much bye himself and then give him the rest myself so maybe one day  he will do it all bye himself...hope yous all well bye for now Shirley....


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## Lovebirds

bulldove said:


> Wee update I'm still hand feeding once a day but he has taken a few small peas off my hand and swallowed them  so i keep trying to get him to eat as much bye himself and then give him the rest myself so maybe one day  he will do it all bye himself...hope yous all well bye for now Shirley....


Thanks for the update. He'll get it...........sooner or later............


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## philodice

Have you tried putting him in a big dish with lots of little seeds in it? Just dump him in the middle and start poking the seeds with your finger for a few minutes before and after feeding the dovelet.
He will begin to associate pecking with food.


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## mr squeaks

Lovebirds said:


> Thanks for the update. He'll get it...........sooner *or later*............



It's that "or later..." that's driving Shirley nuts! 

Philodice has a good idea...

I'm sure he will eat on his own one of these days, Shirely...meanwhile, don't distress, just "go with the flow..." 

With Love, Hugs and Scritches

Shi with support from: Squeaks, Dom & Gimie (who definitely eat on their own!)


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## bulldove

Well folks afraid to say this wee bird still taking the Micky out o me as he still no feeding him self even tho he can as he has taken some seeds out my hand and ate them ,I'm still feeding once a day but think in the not so distant future I'm going to let him go the 24 hours TA see if that will force him to eat him self all tho I'm going to feel real bad but this cant go on for ever..


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## lizz

*hi shirley!*

i've just been reading through this thread....the baby is months old now, right?
although i'm a 'newbie' when it comes to pigeons, i DO have some experience with feeding other baby birds, like my caiques, and my blue and gold macaw.

i've found when trying to wean the babies, they shouldn't be 'forced' to wean, but _'strongly encouraged'._ is there any food that would pique his interest to peck at, and then he'd suddenly realize, HEY, that was good! and be more inclined to keep at it, teaching him to feed himself? 

and i don't know about pigeons, specifically, but i've read that birds learn many new skills by observing and copying successful behaviours. either by watching other birds, or watching humans! maybe he needs to watch other little ones pecking at seeds, and he'll pick it up, or - and this could be entertaining, for sure - maybe you should crush up something that you and he could both eat, and he observes you eating something reeeeeeeally yummy. he might be inspired to be curious, and try something new! 

if it's any comfort, i'm still working with my first boy, trooper, that someone found a month or two ago, with two broken legs, and i wasn't sure he would even *survive *at the outset. but he has, and although his feet may never function well, he has completely stolen my heart, and made every tear shed, and every vet bill paid, completely worth it!!!


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## bulldove

Thanks for your reply much appreciated but just to enlighten things a little my bird can see the other birds eating in fact one in particular that is going to be so fat as he keeps steeling the food  the wee chick pecks the seed and flings it about the same as the others but will only eat a little and bye that i mean a few very small brown peas and i end up giving him the rest bye feeding some off my hand and then the rest popped in the back of his mouth till i feel he had enough in the crop, that bye the way is always empty bye the morning,so as you see I'm starting to think he just getting so used to me doing it that he not botherd and id much rather he didi offer him food all the time in the hope that he will just start eating but not happening..any suggestions more than welcome thanks Shirley


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## bulldove

weeheeeeeeee the little chick is eating bye him self  Thanks again to everyone that has helped me every step of the way  From a very happy SHIRLEY xxx


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## Lovebirds

bulldove said:


> weeheeeeeeee the little chick is eating bye him self  Thanks again to everyone that has helped me every step of the way  From a very happy SHIRLEY xxx





















HOORAY!! I knew he would do it sooner or later. You've been a great mom and done a wonderful job.


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## Maggie-NC

Shirley, that is terrific news. I'm happy for you and you deserve a big hug for taking such good care of this baby.


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## bulldove

Thanks all, love the party relay made me smile LOL xxx


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## Lovebirds

bulldove said:


> Thanks all, love the party relay made me smile LOL xxx


We would REALLY love to see a picture of this little one all grown up..........when you have the time of course.


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## bulldove

hears some new pics of the wee chick finaly a big chick  altho she no as big as the rest ,and i think it is a she or at least her best freind Toto thinks she is as he wont give her a minute


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## Lovebirds

Oh my goodness.........she is SO pretty. I'm so glad you were able to pull this baby through. Make sure you visit the site again,........starting tomorrow, we're have a photo contest. Wee Chick should be entered for sure. Here is the info. 

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=27929


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## Maggie-NC

Shirley, she is gorgeous.


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## mr squeaks

WoW, Shirley, I CERTAINLY agree!! What a beauty wee chick is!!

You have done a GREAT JOB!! 

Love and Hugs

Shi


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