# I need some help please



## andinla (Mar 11, 2003)

*PLEASE If you care for pigeons PLEASE read this!!!!!!*

I contacted a animal abuse hotline regarding the pigeons trapped over and over again upon a gas station here in Los Angeles, Ca. I have taken pictures of no food in the containers for the birds which is a crime, and also no protection from the elements (rain). I also e-mailed British petroleum and told them of the pigeon trappers criminal acts upon one of their stores. 

We left our number for the trapper to call at another location he placed a trap at (same name of gas station Thrify) he called and told my friend on the phone that he drives the pigeons two hours up north to a perserve and releases them. He also said he hates pigeons. (HATES THEM) He would not give his name, or the pest control company he works fors name.
I also believe he is a one man operation and probably doesn't even have a trapping license.

Now the manager at this gas station tells us the trapper drives them to the San Diego zoo and releases them. First off they can't pay him enough to trap and drive for two hours either direction to release. My intution might be off here but I believe he is really getting paid on both ends first from the gas stations and also either a shooting range, or a twenty minute drive to chinatown to the food markets.

The gas station who is allowing this to take place is called Thrifty gas, I don't know if any of you have them in your town? but they are actually owned by British Petroleum who practically owns 80% of all gas stations thoughout the world. They also are known as Arco and many other names where we purchase gas.

If you could please e-mail British Petroleum at [email protected] 
and simply state that you have learned of their animal cruelty taking place at one of their stations (Thrifiy Gas at 5230 W. Rosecrans in the city of Hawthorne, Ca 90250) and are considering not purchasing gas from them again until the traps are removed. It will make a big difference in the lifes of many pigeons that are trapped once more up there. 

Thank you for helping I appreciate it very much

Andi


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

If this is the same as our BP gasoline down here in Florida, I will cancel my account with them also, when i write them an e-mail.

I'm not sure if this is going to have much effect though, it would be much more positive if you could boy-cott that very gas station. If no one buys any gas from them, or next to nothing, perhaps then they will get rid of the traps. Negative publicity in the newspaper, or network news would also help.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

andinla said:


> I contacted a animal abuse hotline regarding the pigeons trapped over and over again upon a gas station here in Los Angeles, Ca.
> 
> * I have taken pictures of no food in the containers for the birds which is a crime, and also no protection from the elements (rain). I also e-mailed British petroleum and told them of the pigeon trappers criminal acts upon one of their stores. *
> 
> ...


Just a suggestion: Get physical addresses of those you are sending emails to & send them copies of the pictures you have taken as well as a copy of the email. 

Cindy


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## andinla (Mar 11, 2003)

*My next step is to boycott*

out in front of the store. I have the complete address, e-mails do help and hopefully will get him to take the trap down. It is the same BP worldwide.

Andi


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*Got one here!*

In California. I saw a trap on top of the roof. But I can't see if thier is food or water. If it is a trap, You think they would put food and water to make the pigeons want to go in. Not that trapping is right. But who knows how long the birds are left in the traps before being removed? And then what is done with them after they are caught? Have you talked to the gas station owner?


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## andinla (Mar 11, 2003)

*I just talked to the manager*

of the store. Corporate ordered the trap he claims. I told him if the trap doesn't come down there will be people out in front of your stores and letting your customers know what is taking place on his property. 

I still need as many of you to e-mail the above email address as possible please the name of the gas station is Thrifty gas station located at 5230 W. Rosecrans in the Hawthorne, Ca. 90250 Miguel Salazar is the manager. 

UPCD
you said there is a trap at a station in SB does it happen to be a Thrifty gas station , AM/PM,
Arco? the problem with the trap is the trap can hold up to 30-40 pigeons and when they finish off the food supply it could be 2 weeks before he shows up.. One gas station the same trapper was trapping at the store clerk told me he picks up the birds once a month. 



Please everyone e-mail them.

Thank You,

Andi


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

OMG, how disturbing. I'll send an email. Hope it helps all you're doing.

Reti


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## phyll (Mar 15, 2004)

Andi,
These morons should have researched their plan, prior to implementing it. These people are despicable!
I sent an e-mail to BP yesterday. Thank you for all you do.

Phyll


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## andinla (Mar 11, 2003)

*Thank you*

Phyll, Reti, Treesa and Cindy for helping. I hope more people read this and e-mail them. I know it will work if enough people tell them they won't be buying their products... thanks again..

Andi


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## re92346mos (Jul 21, 2005)

Now I cant say right out this is a good idea, but where I used to work they were trapping my friends that met me every morning for years, the raccoons. I found out they were taking them off and shooting them so all of a sudden every morning at 4:00 I made my rounds and they never did find out why they had none in the traps anymore and they were still all over! Get the picture.


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## Jimmy Jo (Oct 16, 2005)

Andi...I just returned from bp's website after taking their survey, in which I posted my opinions on this matter. Thank You for speaking for those that have no voice !


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## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

You could get ahold of a local News reporter too and get the word out that way also and there is nothing more than they would hate is buisness being taking away for cruelty to animals. People hate people who are cruel. Get some pics of this if you can. Are there other birds involved besides pigeons? If so this means he is killing even more birds than he thought major negitive to the public eye. Good Luck


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## andinla (Mar 11, 2003)

*We have gone that route but*

one can only climb a 22 ft + ladder so many times, release to make it down before the hand cuffs are at the bottom waiting for you...(the photos have been taken from a friend of mine and there are cruelty charges to be made.) but in the meantime email email this company.

I love pigeons I fight for their rights to live here in this world as every other creature, and human should have a right to. But there are these man made laws that don't make sense, and it is time people stood up for what is right and change these laws they have against pigeons. One being you can lure them into traps with food, you can take them and dispose of them however way you choose, but you can not let the food source run out in the traps or you will be fined. ( you are required by fish and game to have a trapping license which I am sure any joe can get. Non- native birds pigeons, sparrows, crows are not protected by law from anything except, you can not shoot guns in the city, but you can go by poison and put out for them and they suffer a horrible death, you can go to home depot and by glue goop to apply to your roof which is legal, but if any other bird is stuck up there and dies or is dying you are in for a fine. But if you call fish and game regarding glue roofs and there is stuck pigeons dying or dead , your wasting your time. They are pigeons so what.........Ok maybe I am extreme here but if you love something or even like something(pigeons) as most here do, we need to stand together and make changes, they don't come over night but it is possible to change the laws and help pigeons. It is like saying he is a brown child from europe we can't help him. Heck I am a imported European American , which practically we all came from families who orginated from somewhere else. My great great grandfather chose to take a boat ride to seek a better life here in the good old USA. So does that mean we shouldn't have rights and protection just like the rest of the population.? So please fight for what you care about it's time for a change a change for the birds. 

Thank you Jan for your help 

Andi


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## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

I have to admit this: I Love being an animal Rights activist  Warms my heart

Cindy


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## andinla (Mar 11, 2003)

*Sometimes my friends, co-workers, and even family*

have said "there are more important issue in the world to fight for" other than animals, what about babies, homeless??? my answer is they have no voice, they did not chose to be treated wrong, humans on the other have babies one after another knowing they have no means of supporting them, people choose to do drugs, get drunk and end up on the street.. It doesn't mean I don't feel for them but get up look in the mirror and make a change. There are thousands of support groups out there for humans, but animals don't know who to turn to and sometimes when they do seek out help from humans it just might be the one who takes it's life......

Andi


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Until I started rehabbing I never knew that pigeons, sparrows and starlings were not protected.  I was dumbfounded. Does anyone know how far back these rules go, could we write our senators and congressmen and try to get the wildlife laws changed? Who really knows which birds are native? I think I remember reading that finches were brought over from Europe because they were used as pet birds, much in the way cockatiels or parrots.

Maggie


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## andinla (Mar 11, 2003)

*I am in the process now of checking the wildlife laws*

on when laws were put into effect etc, I will post it when I have all the details.

thanks
Andi


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## PidgePidge (May 14, 2003)

I will email and have my family email too. Good luck and keep up the good fight!!!


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## Rockie (Jan 18, 2005)

Hi Andi,

I just sent an email as well. Thank you for what you're doing. I know we have BP stations here. I happen not to use them for other reasons, but I will check them out to see if they're doing anything similar w/pigeons. It makes me so sick when I think of those poor pijies...I will never be able to stomach the cruelty people inflict on animals.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Starlings was brought over from England I believe 2 attemps was made in getting established flock started here in america. I believe they failed But in Canada the birds established. from there they have grone and spread across most of the North american area. I believe to that different sparrow breds was introduced as well. Niether being a stae bird or migratory bird. If they were either I believe some kind of protection would beset up to control the safety of these birds. Both types have gained in population Some areas they have large numbers. And in the winter months they seem to gather in small to large flocks The need for protection at this time I do not think is needed. But one never knows what can happen in the future. There numbers may dwindle down But So far that is not the case. Starlings they take over a area for nesting. And run other birds off robbing nests of eggs and even kill other birds With there somewhat longer beak. But still yet have became apart of the American wildlife. So still deserve there respect as to nature.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Andi,

A big part of the situation/plight of English Sparrows, European Starlings, and Rock Pigeons has to do with the Federal Migratory Bird Treaty Act which first came into being around 1918 if my memory is working correctly. These three species of birds are non-native to the North American continent and are introduced species that are not protected under federal law. There are a few states (Washington, being one, I think) where Rock Pigeons are protected under state law.

Though my personal opinion is that these birds have been here so long and have been so successful in becoming part of our wildlife that they should also be afforded protection under our laws. The downside of that is that it would then be illegal for those of us who rescue and rehab these birds to continue to do so without state and federal permits (which are virtually impossible to get in California any more if you are an individual as opposed to a large center).

Terry


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## andinla (Mar 11, 2003)

*Thank you Terry*

for all your info....I am just fighting until I am blue in the face, it is time for a change. 

Thanks,
Andi


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Hi Andi,

I am so much in agreement with the things you have written such as the following.

_"I love pigeons I fight for their rights to live here in this world as every other creature, and human should have a right to. But there are these man made laws that don't make sense, and it is time people stood up for what is right and change these laws they have against pigeons"_

Human made rules don't always make sense. They are written by people who are experts in their area though so it is tough to fight against what they say sometimes. Introduced species are considered vermin in a lot of areas and sometimes it just does not make sense since they have been so successful that there simply is no turning back the clock. So many mistake have been made in the past though by well intentioned people who brought animals, birds or even plants into North America with disastrous results. 

You have probably heard of the zebra mussels in the great lakes as an example of an environmental disaster caused by trans-atlantic ships dumping bilge water. Pigeons have simply found a space in our hearts and our cities by being so good at adapting to people and our human environments. There is no turning back the clock on that issue so I think we should be protective of them. In my mind they don't intrude on the space of other bird life or drive out indiginous species.

We do have a problem with Magpies though on the prairies and in the Rockies because they are so aggressive and territorial. I also recently read that there was an effort afoot, I think in Vancouver, to exterminate starling flocks that had become unmanageable. They congregate in the thousands. Personally I always loved the flocks I saw and I don't see the value in managing wildlife by exterminating them. It never works. But history keeps repeating itself over and over again doesn't it.

Keep up the good work. Someone indeed does have to stand up for the animals and there are never enough people to take on that responsibility. The only voice many of them have is the voice that we raise. Maybe Home Depot needs to be told to stop selling that glue thing you were talking about. What a rotten way to do away with pigeons. It disgusts me that anyone in that company would actually provide such a cruel product in the first place. What good ever came from cruelty anyway. 

Cameron


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## andinla (Mar 11, 2003)

*Well cameron great minds*

think a like...Ha! thank you for your support in this effort of helping the pigeons. It's funny how some people (co-workers) people in general react when you even mention pigeons, especially a pet pigeon.. My boss said oh-you kept it?? is it clean?? I can't relate to people who think like that. I am an animal activist and have been since birth, so my family tells me. I have always liked pigeons, but after having one in my house for the past 3-4 months I have come to adore them more each day. Take care 

Andi


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## re92346mos (Jul 21, 2005)

I am the same way Andi, I have had to have pigeons since I was aound 13, I always talk to people who say they hate pigeons. and educate them to pigeons! The only way to let them know what happening.


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## kittypaws (Sep 18, 2005)

*I have just sent an e-mil*

Hi Andi,

I have just sent an e-mail to BP. I don't think we have such traps in the UK as I am sure I would have noticed them. I have my head permanently crooked upwards especially when spotting netting on buildings and checking that no pigeons have got caught up. It can be quite distressing sometimes, a) when you see a dead one and b) even worse if you see a bird struggling to get free. I have been lucky in that the few that I seen alive ( apart from rescuing one myself by leaning out of a 4th floor window and cutting the pigeon loose) I have, with numerous phonecalls managed to get the RSPCA (Royal Society Prevention of Cruelty to Animals) to come out to help. They don't always but I have been lucky. Must be the pleading I do. 

I too have written many, many letters, e-mails etc about trapping devices used in certain places ( railway bridges etc). A lot of the time it is like beating your head against a brick wall but very, very occassionaly I have had results. One building had netting which was torn and I had seen two pigeons get trapped, the one I rescued and 1 that an RSPCA man rescued and over 2 years I finally got them to take the netting down. 

I think it was after I told them that I had leaned out of this window ( after persuading the tenants to let me in!!) the landlord got frightened that I may end up killing myself in my vendetta!! They now have anti-perching spikes which is better but they did tell me that there had been 5 dead pigeons removed from the property, tangled up (which I couldn't see from the roadside). Those poor, poor birds......

So I am all for campaining against these barbaric traps. I'm a bit like you Andi in that I can't seriously think this man drives them up north. I guess he probably despatches them somewhere but it won't help pigeon popluations, it just means there is more food, the ones left have more food and then then they breed more and the flocks replace themselves.

Anyway I have e-mailed BP!! Sorry for the story.

Tania x 

PS - Re the man saying he hated pigeons - I once saw another poor bird tangled up in some netting which wasn't that high up but I couldn't reach. There was a man across the road painting a shop sign and he had a big ladder. So I went and asked him if I could borrow it and told him why. He then said " I don't like pigeons" to which I said " I do and I'll climb the ladder". Well he did agree to lend me the ladder and he climbed the ladder and freed the bird which as you know are wriggly little devils!!


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

andinla said:


> My boss said oh-you kept it?? *is it clean??* I can't relate to people who think like that.
> Andi


With regard to cleanliness, If the truth were known, pigeons probably bathe more than most kids.  

Cindy


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

kittypaws said:


> ...He then said " I don't like pigeons" to which I said " I do and I'll climb the ladder". Well he did agree to lend me the ladder and he climbed the ladder and freed the bird which as you know are wriggly little devils!!


Polite and persistant - a very effective combination. Well done!


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

O.K. Andinla,

I e-mailed that address. I live in L.A. County, and would hate to pull into that station with my business, while there are birds trapped on the roof of that establishment. Thank you for letting us know how we could help.

Feather


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## andinla (Mar 11, 2003)

*thank you Tania*

and feather I appreciate your help... and Tania don't ever apoligize at least to me on long post , I love to hear stories of rescues and bravery they make my day!!!  

Andi


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

*Great minds for sure.*

Hi Andi,

I will take that as a very nice compliment. Great minds do think alike I guess.
We just have to try to educate people one at a time. I know one lady who hated pigeons until I mentioned that Noah released one to search for land in the story of Noahs ark, and it came back with an olive leaf. That really seemed to make a difference to her. Now she likes pigeons (doves). who would have thought eh. I do know what you mean though about getting to adore a pigeon in your home. Mine has been here only about 2 and a half months but I have never worried that he wasn't clean. It really hasn't been a problem. And I love the little guy. Better than many people I know.

Cameron


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## Pikachu23739 (Jan 6, 2006)

andinla said:


> have said "there are more important issue in the world to fight for" other than animals, what about babies, homeless??? my answer is they have no voice, they did not chose to be treated wrong, humans on the other have babies one after another knowing they have no means of supporting them, people choose to do drugs, get drunk and end up on the street.. It doesn't mean I don't feel for them but get up look in the mirror and make a change. There are thousands of support groups out there for humans, but animals don't know who to turn to and sometimes when they do seek out help from humans it just might be the one who takes it's life......
> 
> Andi


www.freewebs.com/westiofengland/ visit my website if you are bored


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## andinla (Mar 11, 2003)

*Pikachu23739 I checked out*

your website how cool to have done that... although I am far from being bored. I spend a lot of time working on rescues and getting info on the law lately. Besides my two sons, and my little farm of animals and my paying job I am far from bored. Thanks for sharing your website.

Andi


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## phyll (Mar 15, 2004)

andinla said:


> have said "there are more important issue in the world to fight for" other than animals, what about babies, homeless??? my answer is they have no voice, they did not chose to be treated wrong, humans on the other have babies one after another knowing they have no means of supporting them, people choose to do drugs, get drunk and end up on the street.. It doesn't mean I don't feel for them but get up look in the mirror and make a change. There are thousands of support groups out there for humans, but animals don't know who to turn to and sometimes when they do seek out help from humans it just might be the one who takes it's life......
> 
> Andi


Andi, I totally agree with you!

When I was younger, a crowd gathered near a corner of a local shopping area. As my older cousin & I passed, I became concerned when I realized a lady was on the ground.

My cousin told me not to worry, & impressed me by saying that she would have been upset if a dog were lying there. 
She explained that a person would always receive help (in those days, anyway), but an animal would not ALWAYS receive help.
As the years passed, I learned her words were true.

Some people have "stuff" to say about my efforts to help, but they can go to hell! 
Thank you for all you do to help creatures, you really make a difference. 

May God bless you!

Phyll


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## kittypaws (Sep 18, 2005)

*I agree*

with you Phyll,

Its quite often different when its a human than an animal.

I can recall two occassions where I made my partner stop the car, once for an injured dog in Barbados and an injured cat in USA.

The dog was lying in the middle of the road, had been hit by the car in front and they had just drove on. I could see it and was expecting it to be dead , when it began to move so I screamed Stop" and eventually Colin stopped. I ran back down the middle of the road into oncoming traffic and found the dog to be convulsing. It stopped fitting and I picked it up much to the amusement of other drivers!! If this was a human the road would be shut, the police would be there and everything.

The exact same thing happened with the cat in Virginia. Hit by a car, that didn't stop. We did stop ( I don't drive) after my insistence, but sadly it died in my arms which I guess proves it was badly hurt.

What really bugged me was my own partner and relatives saying in both cases "What would you do with it" to which I replied " take it to the vet" - hey it may not be able to be saved but at least they can humanely euthanase. Then it was " How will you pay for treatment - it may cost at least $500" - well with a credit card I guess and worry about when I get home! It's a crying shame when we don't always extend the same compassion and level of care to our fellow creatures when we can to each other.

Ggrrrrrr........... 

Tania x


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## andinla (Mar 11, 2003)

*birds of a feather flock together*

that's why I love you guys!!! we all have compassion here and it is a rare thing to find sometimes in this big cold world of ours. 

I started a lost dog service years back here in LA and I have seen it all. My daily routine was searching animal shelters from the valley as far as San Diego sometimes. I spent the majority of my time in and out of them looking for clients lost dogs and occasionally cat's as well. And during these visits while travelling the highway's here I have stopped, jumped, ran out to save many animals even on our busy freeways. At the time my mind wasn't thinking of my welfare all I could think of was helping the animal in danger. One of those rescues happened to be here in my little town when I was driving my son to school there was a orange tabby laying in the middle of the street and the cars in front of me simply went around his dead body, I couldn't stand it , I pulled over and much to my surprise the cat was breathing. I went to get a towel out of my car and picked him up, as soon as I layed him down near the sidewalk he got up and ran, so I followed and finally caught him, I took him to the local vet and he had a fractured skull, he had a collar with his address and phone number attached. His owners were there in minutes and ended up paying over $3,000 for surgery and overall care.. He recovered and the owners wrote this long article in our daily newspaper saying how rude it was for the person who hit their cat to not stop and even move him. I went to visit him when he was released from the vet and he ran up to me and starting rubbing against me. Now everytime I see a animal in the road I stop to check it and move it. Opposums that get hit might have babies inside that are still alive I was told by the Opposum rescue lady here in town, I never thought of it till she told me to check their pouch... 

I think the worst one was a black lab puppy 4 months was hit on a busy street and was in the middle of the road everyone was honking their horns at the puppy the poor thing was so scared and it was obvious it had a broken leg. I pulled over and as soon as I got close it darted across to the otherside. The horns kept blowing and I was getting pissed that no one would stop and help. It finally went into a residental area and went into a yard and out of no where this big black man said do you need some help, YES!! He scooped the puppy up and put him in my truck, I was exhausted and gave the man a hug and said I was just giving up on humans thank you...The puppies leg was set and he was adopted out at the LA/SPCA yeah!!!! 

I could write a book of my adventures out there.. in what humans do to animals / and don't do to help them.

Andi


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

I hope I never get so caught up in animal rights that I don't have the compassion and concern to help another human being.

Maggie


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Lady Tarheel said:


> I hope I never get so caught up in animal rights that I don't have the compassion and concern to help another human being.
> 
> Maggie




Well said Maggie, and yes....we should show compassion to our fellow man as well because unfortunately, we rule the roost and we must learn govern the planet better than we've done/are doing. We will get there


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## andinla (Mar 11, 2003)

*I have alway's helped humans as well*

but most of the times (90%) of those times they didn't want help, and continued living their life as it was. My heart goes out to the voiceless. 

Andi


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## kittypaws (Sep 18, 2005)

*Compassion*

What Maggie was saying about being maybe "too animal caring" orientated - not your words Maggie, but the sentiment, in that we may neglect human suffering too, I think most people who have a compassion and empathy with sentient creatures of all ilks will generally be wholely compassionate to their fellow beings. ( That means most of us pigeon folk I am sure). 

One of the most awful things I ever saw, was actually in a newspaper and it was a picture of the body of a dead baby in a gutter in China. She was six months old and people were just passing her by. It was filmed too and about 10 people went past before someone stopped! That I could not believe and it turns me cold to think about now. 

Animal, bird, reptile, human whatever - if its in trouble and I can help I will.
I donate to various charities, mainly animal ones but also support Greenpeace ( enviromental), Oxfam ( 3rd world poverty) and St Mungos ( homeless UK charity)

Andi - your recollections, although sometimes a bit sad, are terrific. I never tire of reading your posts.

I think we need to get this post back onto BP don't we!! Especially after they announced I think $11 billion profit...... Its gone a bit astray.

Love Tania xx


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## andinla (Mar 11, 2003)

*back to BP I agree*

thank you everyone.. Keep those e-mails going to the email address above thank you.

Andi


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Kittypaws, Andi, Brad, Maggie and Phyll

What a terrific thread! I agree with all of you which is a little confusing sounding at first but not so much in reality. I think helping the voiceless is what we are talking about here whether they are a human or an animal (or a pigeon which we all have a soft spot for). No one here likes to just stand around while another in need is run under someones tires or left to die in a gutter. If it is within our power to help those in need and if we are able to help it never looks bad on us.

Keep up the good work Andi.

Cameron


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## andinla (Mar 11, 2003)

*Thanks Cameron*

It looks as if I will be walking the line in front of the station this coming weekend with fliers and passing them out to their customers. I have to find out about the laws on doing this before hand, don't want to end up like the pigeons up on the roof... (behind bars) I will keep you all posted....


People, Peace, & Pigeons  

Andi


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