# Feral Vs. ..........



## Shrek (Apr 2, 2008)

Okay I have to ask. I read all this about feral pigeons getting into your pigeons.......and kinda get the feeling most think ferals aren't as good as there pets. Well what makes a pigeon not feral? At one time weren't all pigeons feral? I'm seeing some gorgeous pigeons that are considered feral that actually just look like someones rollers and homers that left or got out.......so why are these bad? Or not as good?



Thanks.
Shrek


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

Shrek said:


> Okay I have to ask. I read all this about feral pigeons getting into your pigeons.......and kinda get the feeling most think ferals aren't as good as there pets. Well what makes a pigeon not feral? At one time weren't all pigeons feral? I'm seeing some gorgeous pigeons that are considered feral that actually just look like someones rollers and homers that left or got out......._*so why are these bad? Or not as good*_?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't think anyone thinks they are "bad" persay. It is just what the animal has been bred to do. It is the same with horses. There are a whole lot of absolutely gorgeous wild horses out there, but you aren't going to see many of them winning the Kentucky Derby. There are certain desirable qualities and traits that have been intensified over the years through selective domestic breeding that make certain animals more apt to perform at a higher level than its "feral" counterparts that have had mother nature do the selecting. 

Random selection ensures the highest degree of genetic survivability in the wild. Through natural selection or "survival of the fittest" if you were, you create a population with a wide genetic base. This is called hybrid vigor. If you want to intensify or heighten given desireable traits, be it speed, homing ability, or a particular look, you must practice selective breeding to bring this about. 

This basically describes the difference between the two. Not better or worse just different desired outcomes.

Hope this helps without getting too analytical! 

Dan


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

They aren't bad, in my opinion. I love them all the same.
I think it's really critical, that as a forum, we stop discriminating against the feral pigeons. They are just as deserving of life, honor and respect as the pure breeds.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Ferals, whether they be pigeons or some other birds or animals, are those which have at some time been considered as domesticated and have escaped, or been freed, and live in a wild state (but not necessarily their natural environment). If they manage to reproduce, then their descendants are also classed as 'feral'.

Feral pigeons live free and are descended from pigeons which were domesticated centuries back, plus the odd racers or performing pigeons who just went missing and joined the flocks. We have a couple of rescued pigeons who look like Rollers, and may have been the pairing of a lost Roller with a feral.

I guess fanciers, racing or fancy breeds, having got birds carefully bred over generations, don't much want ferals breeding with their birds and (as I have heard said) 'diluting' the gene pool or messing up the bloodline, or whatever..


There are also genuine wild pigeons (of the kind we're talking about) - never had anything to do with people - but they only live in a few places like islands off Scotland or Ireland. 

Just depends where you are comiong from, really - to me, any pigeon is as 'good' as any other 

John


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## Shrek (Apr 2, 2008)

I ask because we caught some out of a guys barn. He was going to have them shot. Some look identical to my rollers. In fact some were prettier then my rollers. Then there were a couple that look like my homers that were very healthy and it got us thinking....

Thanks guys.

Shrek


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## EgypSwiftLady (Jan 14, 2008)

My thinking is that I feel the same for all pigeons, I think they are beautiful creatures, ferals are wild there fore haven't had the vaccinations, worming or parasite controll that most of us provide for our flocks and could bring in a potenial problem. I would and will take in injured ferals if given the chance but they will be quarentined, all new animals go through a 30- 60 days quarentine with us.
Just my 2 cents.


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

Yup, I'm sure some of the ones you caught are as beautiful if not more so than your "domesticated" ones. I have some stunning pigeons that were feral, and some of their babies are just lovely. Some feral flocks undoubtedly have "escapees" that joined them and they have those bloodlines going through them. I don't have any pigeons that are specifically used for something; i.e. rollers or homers or the like, so they are all the same to me.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Dan - 

I have to say that your post, to me, provided excellent definitions and explanation of the differences 

John


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## solly (Jul 18, 2005)

I feed a feral flock and the majority are a mixture of brown ,white and like patchy ones.Ialso feed a very small group at the shops where i live and some of these are brown or black with white heads.Think these have all come from once pet/fancy pigeons.Alot of them have the long feathers covering their feet.


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## jojo67 (Jul 14, 2007)

EgypSwiftLady said:


> My thinking is that I feel the same for all pigeons, I think they are beautiful creatures, ferals are wild there fore haven't had the vaccinations, worming or parasite controll that most of us provide for our flocks and could bring in a potenial problem. I would and will take in injured ferals if given the chance but they will be quarentined, all new animals go through a 30- 60 days quarentine with us.
> Just my 2 cents.


all very true, people would be more cauious about ferals and what their birds could pick up from them, 
In our town a flock of ferals are steadily increasing, they are a wonderful site, when i amgoing to work i watch out for them,


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

jojo67 said:


> all very true, people would be more cauious about ferals and what their birds could pick up from them,
> In our town a flock of ferals are steadily increasing, they are a wonderful site, when i amgoing to work i watch out for them,


OH FOR PETE"S SAKE! Loft pigeons can have just as many illnesses/parasites as the ferals can.


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## jojo67 (Jul 14, 2007)

Charis said:


> OH FOR PETE"S SAKE! Loft pigeons can have just as many illnesses/parasites as the ferals can.


FOR PETES SAKE'' theirs no point increasing the chances, not when you follow a programme to keep your own healthy. who treads the feral pigeons


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

jojo67 said:


> FOR PETES SAKE'' theirs no point increasing the chances, not when you follow a programme to keep your own healthy. who treads the feral pigeons


I know that most of us do treat our pigeons regularly but many folks that have pigeons don't understand the importance of doing so. Over and over again folks contact our forum because they have a sick pigeon or pigeons. Most often, they have no idea about pigeon illnesses or what to treat them with or how to tresat them. Somehow, thay have managed to obtain these birds without doing any research. Amazing to me.
Thank goodness for us!


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## jojo67 (Jul 14, 2007)

Charis said:


> I know that most of us do treat our pigeons regularly but many folks that have pigeons don't understand the importance of doing so. Over and over again folks contact our forum because they have a sick pigeon or pigeons. Most often, they have no idea about pigeon illnesses or what to treat them with or how to tresat them. Somehow, thay have managed to obtain these birds without doing any research. Amazing to me.
> Thank goodness for us!


Very good charis, but i was only stating the cauious approach i would have to the feral pigeon, as am sure others on here would have, knowing the importance of trying to keep them healthy, if i got one into my loft, i would try and do my best by it, 
Your point is well taken,


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## Snowbird Sue (Dec 31, 2007)

Isn't his a learning forum in the first place? I thought all were welcome, weather they had a loft, or just found one fallen from the nest. Yes, it is nice to have a place to find answers when you have questions, but I would also be quite leary of a feral around my coop. I sure wouldn't want anything "new" coming into contact with my birds either. I do think they are pretty, but at a distance.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

jojo67 said:


> Very good charis, but i was only stating the cauious approach i would have to the feral pigeon, as am sure others on here would have, knowing the importance of trying to keep them healthy, if i got one into my loft, i would try and do my best by it,
> Your point is well taken,


I just want the value of the feral recognized. They are just as wonderful as domesticated pigeons. 
I truly didn't mean to beat up on you. If you feel I did, I do apologize.


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## first flight (Apr 15, 2008)

*don't think so*

truthfully, i love pigeons so i would NEVER say anything bad about them but i have heard rats with wings and stuff like that yes, somethimes the people have good reasons but i dont think tey are that bad


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## Shrek (Apr 2, 2008)

So let me throw out another question for you. Most let there tame pigeons out to fly. Maybe even race. Don't you think they come in contact with wild ones? So now your pigeons bring home the illness and such to the loft.


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

If you let your birds fly free they probably do encounter more "bugs" and perhaps may bring illness home. Inoculation and preventative treatment never is 100% successful, anyway. We can only try our best!

I'd discourage any ferals from freely mixing with my birds not because I dislike the ferals (I love them!) but because they are an unknown and uncontrollable entity health wise.


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## EgypSwiftLady (Jan 14, 2008)

TheSnipes said:


> I'd discourage any ferals from freely mixing with my birds not because I dislike the ferals (I love them!) but because they are an unknown and uncontrollable entity health wise.


 Excellent way to explain it Snipes... thats what I wanted to get across.


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

There was a feral flock near where I used to live and every day two pure white banded pigeons would show up around noon, hang out with the ferals for the day, and then leave the flock around five or six to go back "home", I figured.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

TheSnipes said:


> I'd discourage any ferals from freely mixing with my birds not because I dislike the ferals (I love them!) but because they are an unknown and uncontrollable entity health wise.


Quite agree. Any rescues we will keep in isolation for a time, duration depending on why they were rescued, before allowing then to be with the other birds. If there is more than one at a time, then they have to get different syringes etc. for medicating and we have to ensure good hygiene after handling each of them, to avoid any cross-infection. 

John


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Feral is a name used more in todays time. When years back they were called common pigeons. Or barn pigeons. Feral leans more toward wild. Which is used in cats, dogs ect. Common pigeons Relates to the type the ferals are. There are what about 250 different breeds of pigeons. That have been bred up by man. And the ferals you see today many are crossed from the domesticated breeds that have been lost or turned loose. Yes feral get sick BUT i think often ferals remain in better health then the caged birds. They have freash air more often. They get exercise. And the weak or sick end up hawk food. So they are strong pigeons. they tame as easy as any breed when kept. They home up to a 100 miles. They just are not as desired by pigeon keepers. BUT have been the reason many many people through the years have gone on and raised pigeons. Because there first birds was the feral pigeon. Mine were And 50 years later Pigeons still remain a part of me.. Ferals come in most all colors these days. I still watch them when I am out. And people will either like them or not. We can not change everyones mind but Thats why people are different we like and dislike different things. Pigeons is not everyones bag.


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## jojo67 (Jul 14, 2007)

Charis said:


> I just want the value of the feral recognized. They are just as wonderful as domesticated pigeons.
> I truly didn't mean to beat up on you. If you feel I did, I do apologize.


no need to apologize charis, i love all breeds of pigeons, their are a lot of fancy breeds that look awesome, as i only started to keep pigeons from last july I value the info i have got on here, and the advice i recieved, truly thankful,
I can understand the angle your are coming from, A lot of the members on here do a great job in looking after and caring for all birds ,including yourself,
Keep up the good work,


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

jojo67 said:


> no need to apologize charis, i love all breeds of pigeons, their are a lot of fancy breeds that look awesome, as i only started to keep pigeons from last july I value the info i have got on here, and the advice i recieved, truly thankful,
> I can understand the angle your are coming from, A lot of the members on here do a great job in looking after and caring for all birds ,including yourself,
> Keep up the good work,


   ........


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## KIPPY (Dec 18, 2003)

> I just want the value of the feral recognized. They are just as wonderful as domesticated pigeons.


Agree! 




> So they are strong pigeons.


(ferals)

Agree again!


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## DEEJAY7950 (Dec 13, 2006)

No one mentioned the one greatest difference between feral pigeons (wild) and our domesticated pigeons and that is the negativity the feral pigeon places on our domesticated birds, so many people hate feral pigeons because of the mess they make doing what comes natural in rather unnatural places because of adaptation to surroundings like underpasses, parking garages, tall buildings, gas stations (although gas stations have adapted newer designs because they couldn't beat them they had to out think them LOL) So i believe this is the biggest difference " All the negativity the FERAL bird has done to our beloved birds and hobbies be it racing, showing, breeding, or just enjoying the company of the birds!


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

I have seen it said by racing folk on a forum I've been on for many years, that if the racing hobby comes into disrepute amongst people, then the first place to look is within the hobby, rather than find someone/something else to blame .

John


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## Tilly (Feb 16, 2008)

DEEJAY7950 said:


> No one mentioned the one greatest difference between feral pigeons (wild) and our domesticated pigeons and that is the negativity the feral pigeon places on our domesticated birds, so many people hate feral pigeons because of the mess they make doing what comes natural in rather unnatural places because of adaptation to surroundings like underpasses, parking garages, tall buildings, gas stations (although gas stations have adapted newer designs because they couldn't beat them they had to out think them LOL) So i believe this is the biggest difference " All the negativity the FERAL bird has done to our beloved birds and hobbies be it racing, showing, breeding, or just enjoying the company of the birds!


Feral pigeons are the descendent's of domesticated pigeons so the places that they nest is natural to them. They are used to being where people live just to survive. We have created that.
Let's talk about the waste humans leave behind. Lets face it, we're not too good about picking up after ourselves. We're not too good about owning up to the messes we create. Just take a stroll in any major city in the world or take a drive down an express-way.


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## DEEJAY7950 (Dec 13, 2006)

I know what your saying and i agree but what has this to do with the difference between FERAL PIGEONS and DOMESTICATED PIGEONS? Are we getting a little off track--I think so--I know it happens-- our emotions tend to get the best of us!


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