# Help! raising two young pigeons



## herpin1579 (Apr 26, 2005)

Hello everyone,

Last night someone brought me two young ferals. I put them in a box with a towel and have a bulb over them to keep them around 80-85degrees. I tried feeding them this morning. I used chick starter that was mushed by adding warm water. This has a protien content of around 26%. I used a small spoon and had to hold open their mouths to feed them. I plan on getting a eye dropper today. What else should I do?

Mike


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hello and Welcome to Pigeons.com

Thankyou for helping these darling babies.

I would look under the care section to find out how to feed baby pigeons, as I have not much experience with it.

You can use soaked puppy chow that has been drained and put behind their tounge in very small pieces for now, as they are hungry!

. The best baby food would be Exact for baby birds. It is easy to mix and feed. You can get that PetSmart and other pet shops. At this age the babies are rapidly growing and developing new cells, so they eat large quantities at a time, every four hours but not after dark . You will notice their crops will be almost full like a balloon, but softer. They will take in about 20 to 30 mls.

Others will come and give more info. on this.

Treesa


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hello and welcome,

Chick starter crumbs are a very good food for baby pigeons, provided that you soak them in hot (not boiling) water so that the enzymes are not destroyed and start off with a very thin mixture, blending it and sieving it three times before serving. Your babies look old enough to cope with a mixture of the consistency of tomato ketchup. You can add small soaked seeds when they are 10-14 days old.

This link will take you to my album which includes details of how much to feed squabs and pictures of how to feed them using the syringe and balloon method http://community.webshots.com/album/165797594SYYRWL 

You will find links to other methods of feeding by going to Pigeon Daily and then Resources.

They look perfectly adorable! In the Resources section you will find a link to a site that will help you determine exactly how old they are.


Cynthia


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Thank you so much for caring for these adorable babies. Treesa's advice was good: the best food you can give them is Exact baby bird formula (should be available at most pet stores), or Harrison's hand-rearing formula, which you can buy from a vet. 

Here's a lengthy but very informative thread from someone who successfully raised two hatchlings. 

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=8070

It contains discussion (and photos) of the balloon and syringe method of feeding babies. It's messy but enables them to eat formula by sticking their heads in the feeding syringe, more natural than tubing them or taking it from a dropper. Basically you cut off the tip of a feeding syringe and cover it with a piece of ballon with a slit or X cut in it. The chick quickly learns to push its beak inside and suck up the formula while you slowly depress the plunger.


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## herpin1579 (Apr 26, 2005)

Hey everyone,

The two little pidgies started off slow. I fed them today after school using a syringe but it just didnt feel like their crops were getting full. I fed them again about two hours later. This time I cut off the end of the syringe so they could get their whole beak into it. BAMN. Although the feed was a little thicker, their crops filled right up. I know its only been a day but it already seems as if they are completely imprinted on me. They are peeping like crazy any time they see me and rub their beaks all over me in hopes of more food.

Mike


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## bklowe (Oct 21, 2003)

Most everyone uses Kaytee Exact Baby Bired formula for Pigeons and Doves .... for feeding we use a kitten nursing bottle and cut the tip off to a size the the bird wil get enough beak in the tip [ cut it back further as the bird grows ] to be able to "drink " the formula as they would from the parents beak. Let them drink until you see that the crop is nicely extended .... wait til the crop empties and then feed again .... dawn til dusk. At the age your buddy's look I would also offer seed and water as well. When they start eating seed you can feel it in the crop.


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Hi,

Just to illustrate what Bruce is saying:

Here is the link to a previous thread which contains links to photos our moderator Maryco has posted showing the location of the crop and comparisons of empty and full crops. Hope this helps:
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=5203) 

Linda


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

*Kaytee Exact*



> Most everyone uses Kaytee Exact Baby Bired formula for Pigeons and Doves


Does Kaytee make a formula specifically for pigeons and doves? Here in the UK there is only the one for "all baby birds" and the packet has a photo of a parrot on it. It is hard to find in the shops here . We mostly use soaked chick starter crumbs for feeding squabs , that produces nice healthy chicks. Helen (Nooti) uses it for raising hatchlings.

Cynthia


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Cynthia, 

No, the Kaytee sounds the same as yours, it has a parrot on the label of the package. Says it's for "all baby birds".


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Mike,


What little cuties!  

Good work...!
 

If it were me, I would consider to forgo the 'bulb' ( and thus preserve their retinas Lol...) and instead, use a conventional electric Heating Pad with a towell over it, set up so they may be on it or off of it as they like.

Too, these youngsters are old enough to be fed Seeds, with a little Grit, so their Gizzards have something to do, which I think stimulates other internal processes benificially...so if your method of feeding allows it, you could consider to start adding small Seeds to their feed, and to increase them subsequently. 

The semi liquid 'soup' of Seeds, and whatever powder Baby Formula and dabs of other nutrients and good ( non 'tap') Water, is also easily fed to them in the hollow of a regular Baby-Nipple, into which they will enthusiastically insert their eager little Beaks with likely some few introductory sessions, and this allows an easy graduated increase in Seeds, along with whatever else one mixes together for them to eat. Soon too, the Nipple may be used to offer tepid Water, between feedings proper, which soon then allows them to drink from a small Cup when it is offered.

They should be happy with this method, to stuff themselves several times a day, and in-between, as the Seeds hydrate in thier Crops, you may offer tepid Water. The food should allways be tepid also of course, so it does not chill or confuse them.

They look very happy and vivid..!

I usually just have such youngsters on a regular folding or 'Card Table', onto which I have a smallish Cardboard Box on it's side, with a small, towell covered Heating Pad in it. On which I have a smaller bottom-inch base of another cut-down Box for their nest, this too has a small towell in it, like a wash cloth.

Over the front of the Box on it's side, over it's open side, I drape a thin cloth for a curtain, with a gap of a couple inches at it's bottom. I reach in, pull out the 'nest' Box in effect, to feed them and so on, then, as they get a little older, they come out on their own for feeding times, or, to lay about like little boats or to preen and so on, and, they go back in as they like with some sense of being private. They figure out the little 'curtain' right away, and merely lift it with their beaks or heads as they pass under it, to emerge all full of squeaks and enthusiasms if I have called them.

Untill they are about ready to fly, they stay put on the little table top ( with a table cloth on it of course.) And, generally, they tend to poop outside of the Box on it's side, with the one inch or so cut down smaller 'box' bottom in it, which is their 'Nest'...

Once they are near finding their Wings, they will see what near things they can semi fly to and from there begin their small initial exploratory excursions.

My own method evolved to be that I am the only source of Water, and once they are starting to fly a little, I will call them to come get a drink, and they enthusiastically fly over to me to do so. This when they are already gaining skill of course, at pecking and self feeding.

This then also lets me call to them and for them to come thereafter, in doors, or, in those initial occasions of outings to begin their assimilation with their feral fellows.

Once feral, they will certainly drink on their own...and, after the first few sessions of socializeing with their wild bretherin, I see them pecking with the same alacrity and skill as everyone else, where, and from whom, they soon lern to peck fast and sure, and to 'feel' and listen to those around them, even as Schools of Fish do.

I have never seen any impediments in these progressive 'releases' from any so called 'imprinting', which seems to worry almost everyone, and , which I do not believe is an appropriate term at all...

I think people confuse a Bird having 'imprinted' on them, with what otherwise is the Bird's acceptance of the surrogate parenting.

In my experience, once a hand raised Pigeon, with ones 'parental' supervision, is allowed to progressively be with and socialize with their wild fellows, they soon align themselves with the wild Bird's modes of being and of awareness, which I liken to that of a school of Fish, in which each individual is attuned to the larger mysterious awareness in which they all are connected in their modes of being and modes of knowing.

In Nature, and in our raising them, there is the need for the infant thence youngster thence adolescent, to feel attended and safe and loved and cared for and protected, and to be engenuously interacted with. Then, for it assume in it's adolesent modes and moods, the poise for socialization with other than it's "parents" of adults and other juveniles of their Species...and, with this, gracefully, for there to be the seperation or evaporation of the 'bond' in which they were raised, which had protected and cared for them.

This 'imprint' ( ie knowing "who" one's parents are) and the Bond...are in effect their 'second' Egg-Shell and these two comprise the emotional-psychological corallary of "Egg" from which they are innately disposed to emerge, but will be frustrated or stopped from emerging if they do not find the circumstances awaiting them to be something they can feel confident and sure of themselves about. They need progressive steps for this learning and attunement to the wild modes of feeling and awareness and interaction with other wild Pigeons and their ways.

(two parts)


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

(second part)

All of this of course is identical with people, and the 'problems' we see in many ways around us every day are the permutates of this second (emotional/psychological) 'egg' having remained around them, or, in their essentially immature or frustrated 'bonds' being retained in some sublimation or another in desperateness and disguise...being the human emotional-psychological equivelent anyway.

And so this 'evaporation' of the bond or mode of connection with the parents, the emergence of the adolescent from their 'second' Egg-Shell, is the healthy and normal and innately disposed to-be of occurance, once they have acquired the confidence and knowledge and sufficient familiarity with their own increasing excercise of confidence with the company of other Pigeons, or in a flock, and for them to seperate gracefully from their parents, and become independant members of a Flock.


The parent's job, whether the parents are their biological Pigeon parents, or, surrogate hominid parents, is...to keep them warm, to feed them, to preen them a little now and then, and to let them know they are safe and cared about and protected, and, to oversee them growing up with engenuous interactions and attentions and guidences. 

Then, once they are finding their Wings, to introduce them to the flock generally, while still feeding them of course in the usualy way nopw and then as an emotional assurance of one's real 
'presence' as still looking after them, as well as seeing them pecking on their own, and still letting them know they are loved and protected and watched over, and, gradually then, to see them learn to peck ''with' and to socialize with their wild fellows, and for them to return to their more or less old nest area or near it for a little while, for roosting at night, and to learn their confidences to be independant Birds.

The Baby or youngster will do just as well, with Hominid or Avian parents, if these things are understood and observed for their well being and to guide and encourge with one's presense and overseeing, to their eventual maturity.


The Babys I have raised to then introduce to the wild Flock, were no more and no less 'nervous' in their initial succession of outings, than are the wild adolescents who I see standing there to the side 'trembling' and shy or skittish...Lol...there is no perceptible difference in them.

And I 'hover' gently at some near distance, even as the wild adolescent's parents do...carefully attentive in non invasive ways, to ensure no one pesters them, or to scold anyone who may!

The closer we can get to 'how' their biological parents do their job (when they in fact DO do it or do it wel - and I think most ferals do do it well...) the more easy and elegant and simple it all can be for them and for us and for our worries.

Birds who become stuck in the adolescent phase of poise which had not been encouraged with experience to fill in their confidences with experience for their socialization with or into feral or wild society may remain confused or intimidated for want of the gentle graduated progression of steps... thence to be deemd to have 'imprinted' on their raisers or parents.

While to my my mind the issue is not one of whether or not an 'imprint' has occurred but more what kind of imprint it is - which if we mean by the term 'imprint', knowing "who" it's "parents" are, well of course! They MUST do this and we must let them!

It is not then the 'imprint' as such which is at issue then, but the incomplete or frustrated phase of loosenig or dissolving the 'bond' in which their independance has become trapped or undeveloped or intimidated or discouraged. Where lacking the opportunities to be guided or watched over in their learning and confidence building experiences, they then may acquiesce to the path of least resistance which is to stay bonded to their parents instead of assumeing their independance from them to assimilate unto the wild society of their fellow Birds.

An adult Bird who for some reason one has convelesced in captivity more or less, may sometimes elect to comfortably enjoy the small society of one's home as a member of it. This seems a choice they can make according to how they maturely feel about it having already lived for however many years as a wild adult long since independant of it's long ago parents' oversights and 'bonds'.

These Birds so far as I have seen seldom elect this but sometimes do or sometimes do for some length of time.

They too can be wonderful housemates or gentle companions and they may socialize with their wild fellows any time they like knowing full well how to do so without feeling intimidated or unsure of themselves.

Anyway...just some rambley, "morning Coffee" sidelights there, if you want them...!


Off to Work for me now!!

Best of luck with these delightfull and charming little ones!

Phil
Las Vegas


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