# Young pigeon refusing food



## fsimon (May 23, 2017)

Greetings..

So here's the story.. About a week ago I looked out my window and I saw my German Shepherd 'playing' with a pigeon (the reason for the word playing is that most dogs - including my other two - would have probably outright killed him, but mine was just laying down with it and plucking out a bunch of his feathers) 

So I called the dog, he left it there and I saw the pigeon running behind a tree to hide. Went outside, picked him up and brought him in to see the damage done.. 

He was just a youngster and was probably experimenting with flying for the first time when the dog found him and aside from being terrified and missing quite a few feathers, I couldn't see anything wrong with him so I put him in a cardboard box with some water and some corn-flour (not the completely powdered one, but the one only milled to small grains) mixed with water.

Needless to say that he wanted nothing to do with the food or water.. so I started researching it on the internet and discovered that pigeons are a bit shy when it comes to eating and unlike chicken or ducks they learn it quite slowly.

After that I found a bunch of different methods for feeding them on the internet, so the next day, once he settled down I tried them, but none of them actually work... I tried the bottle.. the cut-off syringe, even tried putting food in it's beak.. I finally decided enough is enough so I figured I'd have to do direct tube-feeding..

Since I could only use what I had.. I took the plastic tube out of one of those pump-action spray bottles, rounded one end so that it doesn't have edges that could potentially harm the bird, since it's harder than a feeder tube and mounted the other end on a 20cc syringe. 
After that I gathered the stuff I had I assumed was 'decent' for birds.. rice.. that small-grain corn.. ground wheat some oats as well and using a coffee grinder I made those into a powder.. added some sesame seeds and some water and using a soup blender I made it into a thick liquid that I could suck up with the syringe and fed the bird with it.

It seemed to be working, the next day he was happier and more friendly, but still he refused to eat with normal hand-feeding. I took him out for a 'walk' (letting my dogs in the house so they don't disturb us) and his mother (they nest in the roof of my house) came down there and fed him some as well and I also found another youngster on the ground who couldn't fly (possibly one of his siblings) so I figured I'd better take both of them back in for the night to prevent my dogs or something else relieving that one of his feathers as well.. 

The fact that he wasn't alone anymore made the first pigeon way happier and he was following the other one around on the ground, while I was teaching that one how to fly during our 'walks' since he had all his feathers.
Still, none of them actually wanted to eat the food I had so I ended up tube-feeding both, while looking for pet-stores in the area for some pigeon-food (I figured they simply don't like the taste). I couldn't find any kind of bird-feed so I just kept giving them what I had at home.. 

In a couple of days the second one learned how to fly and was eager to join his family.. so I let him go yesterday. Now he's out there flying around (saw him a couple of times today) and seems happy, but the first one still doesn't have enough feathers to properly fly... he can cover small distances and is quite afraid to even try those.

However I'm starting to get a bit concerned, since he's been refusing food ever since.. he seems to have lost some weight as well.
So far I was giving him 20cc of that mix in the moring and 20cc late in the evening and since he appears to be always-hungry, but still refusing food I thought I'd stick one more session in in the afternoon. (I know he's hungry cuz whenever I take him out and the mother happens to be there he does the full-on hysterical 'give-me-food' dance with arms flapping and loud yelling)

After giving him the afternoon food though, a couple of hours later he stood up, started shaking himself and puked it all out.
Maybe it was too much? his crop was nowhere near full, or is he sick?
I fed him an hour ago, since his crop was completely empty from puking out the previous one.. but this time I figured I'd try something extreme in case he pukes it out again.. I have some 100% peanut butter with absolutely no salts or sugars added.. and I mixed a small amount to his food in hopes that even if he pukes it out, the amount remaining will still give him an energy boost. I really need this little guy to start growing and learn to fly so any tips are welcome. I never cared for a pigeon before so I just hope I've been doing more good than harm.. 

Finally, today I managed to order some mixed seeds for birds.. I couldn't find the ones for pigeons.. these are for large parrots (the pigeon one was out of stock and the picture of the seeds on this one resembled that one the most) I hope he'll like them.. and we can finally move on from tube-feeding..
Sorry for the long post, I just wanted to share all the information I had. Thanks in advance for any tips.

Also, here's a picture of the little-dude
http://imgur.com/a/k7CsV


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I don't know if you meant corn meal, but he would have no way of picking that up and eating it. It is too fine a crumble. They need to be fed food that is mixed into a pudding consistency if you are hand feeding. He isn't refusing to eat. He doesn't know how to eat. Then to wean them to seed, you can keep pecking at the seed with your finger, like a beak to show him. Sometimes it's easier to hand feed frozen peas which have been defrosted and warmed under warm running water. Warm, not hot. After you feed those to him for a few times, he will come to recognize them as food. You can leave some with him to practice picking them up by himself, but will have to hand feed until he gets it. They really should have been fed 3 times a day, so they were hungry. If you want him to learn to pick up his own food, it needs to be something easy to pick up. If he is vomiting, could be food, or could be sick, if he didn't get an infection from the dog. Even a small break in the skin from a cat or dog, and they can get an infection and die without antibiotics. Also, how are you giving water? It's dangerous to give him water by hand in his beak, as they are easy to aspirate. The food you give should have water mixed in and be like pudding. This gives him some moisture. You can teach him to drink on his own if you keep gently dipping his beak into a small crock of water, but not over the nostrils, he will eventually learn to drink. He needs to be drinking if you offer him seed. He can't digest the seed without adding enough water to it. It will just sit in his crop like a brick.

I hope the other baby found his parents, or he won't last long out there. He doesn't know anything he needs to know to survive. Where to find food or water or shelter, or really anything. 

Here is how to feed defrosted, warmed peas.

If you need to feed peas to a pigeon, hold the bird on your lap and against your body. This gives you more control. Reach from behind his head with one hand and grasp his beak on either side. Now use your free hand to open the beak, and put a pea in, then push it to the back of his throat and over his tongue. Let him close his beak and swallow. Then do another. It gets easier with practice, and the bird also gets more used to it, and won't fight as much. If you can't handle the bird, then use the sleeve cut off a t-shirt, slip it over his head and onto his body, with his head sticking out. This will stop him from being able to fight you so much. Just don't make it tight around his crop area. It helps if you have him facing your right side if you are right handed.


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## fsimon (May 23, 2017)

Oh, sorry for messing up the title.. I was aware that he doesn't know how to eat, what I meant by the word 'refusing' is that he seems to be having a harder time realizing that it's food when I try to hand-feed him.

Yes, I did mean cornmeal, I just couldn't remember the proper word and I was adding a bit of water to make it stick slightly stick together and form bigger bits (I remembered my grandma giving that to very young chicks, that's why it was the first thing I tried) 

The food mix I've been tube-feeding him is about the consistency of warm pudding so it does have water in it, as for giving him additional water, I managed to get him to drink only once by dipping his beak in water, other times when he looked really thirsty and the crop wasn't soft enough I gave him a small amount of water with the feeding-tube I use for food (like 5cc) and he seemed really energetic afterwards. 

Infection from the dog isn't possible, since it's an adult German shepherd and his head is twice as big as the pigeon itself, his teeth and claws would crush him before breaking the skin. I was more concerned about possible crush damage of the crop as he was holding him down with his paw to pluck the feathers, but given that he's been okay for a week now I think he survived the dog pretty well.. 

Also, yes I have been trying to teach him to eat, last night for example I put him on a table and spent 2 hours in a row sitting there trying to make him pick up food by picking at it with my finger. He managed to pick up and eat a single grain of rice  

As for the other baby, just as I was typing this I heard some squeaking so I looked outside and he was there with his mother feeding him, then they both flew off so he seems to be doing fine outside. At first I was considering putting this one outside as well out of reach of the dogs to let the mother feed him, but the rest of the adult pigeons were trying to kill him and I can't 
watch over him 24/7 so that's not an option until he learns how to fly. Till then we only have our daily walks. 

What do you think about the food composition I made and amounts I've been feeding him though? Should he have 20cc 3 times a day now? or should I keep the 2 and just try feeding him peas and corn and stuff during the day?

Edit: Also forgot to ask, how long does it take for some of the larger feathers to grow back? You could probably see in the first picture I sent that he's missing most of his longer tail-feathers and a few from the middle of the left wing as well (which creates a 'hole' and makes it harder for him to fly)


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## fsimon (May 23, 2017)

Here's an update... 
Today about an hour and a half ago I gave him peas like you said.. gave him about 30 or so.. Now he threw a bunch of them back out whole


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

fsimon said:


> Oh, sorry for messing up the title.. I was aware that he doesn't know how to eat, what I meant by the word 'refusing' is that he seems to be having a harder time realizing that it's food when I try to hand-feed him.
> 
> Yes, I did mean cornmeal, I just couldn't remember the proper word and I was adding a bit of water to make it stick slightly stick together and form bigger bits (I remembered my grandma giving that to very young chicks, that's why it was the first thing I tried)
> 
> ...


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

fsimon said:


> Here's an update...
> Today about an hour and a half ago I gave him peas like you said.. gave him about 30 or so.. Now he threw a bunch of them back out whole


At this age he would probably be able to eat 30 peas, but he is only getting 20cc of food in a feeding normally, so he probably isn't used to so much. If he were used to getting more food, then it may not have been too many peas.
Normally at 2 weeks they would be getting about 30cc and by 4 weeks 35 to 40 cc of food.


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## fsimon (May 23, 2017)

Allright, thanks for the information!

In the meantime, he learned how to drink on his own so now the water problem is solved.. he just walks to his little bowl and drinks whenever he wants. 

The peas were normal fresh-frozen peas, I defrosted them and they were at room temperature when I fed him. 

I'll gradually increase the amount I'm feeding him then. Regarding the droppings, he does them fairly often (like every couple of minutes) and before, they looked like a random mix of white / brown / green with a really small pool of water around (probably from giving him the extra water before he learned how to drink) and now after I gave him the peas they're dark green (darker than the peas) and sometimes it looks as thou they contain an actual pea (same size / shape) but not always.. 

I do have another theory on the vomiting.. both times it happened I didn't put him back in his box to rest after feeding, left him out on top of the box so he can look around, maybe it made him a bit more nervous and he decided to throw his food back up? Like some kind of fight or flight response... you know.. empty the crop to make it easier to escape if needed? Just guessing here, I've no idea what I'm talking about  
But after he threw up all the peas I fed him like 10 more and put him back in his box and he just rested there, didn't throw up anymore..


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Hope he keeps improving. Thank you for helping him!


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## fsimon (May 23, 2017)

Played with him some more in the meantime.. I occasionally tapped his box and pecked at the jar lid I put in filled with peas.. and he spent like half an hour pecking at the newspaper underneath and the random peas I put in.. he drops every one of them (even tried cutting them in half), but I suppose it's progress  I never got him to focus on trying to pick up stuff for this long before.
Also noticed that if he loses focus and starts listening to random noises from outside, a gentle touching of his crop makes him start pecking again, strange.. 

After that I fed him like 35 peas and turned off his lights so he rests this time and maybe doesn't throw up. He went and drank from his water on his own after that.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

They don't vomit for that reason. So not sure why he did. You don't have to cut them in half. Maybe he wasn't hungry when you tried to get him to focus on the peas. When you feed them, they would be better warmed a bit. 
The best time to get him to try to pick them up is when he is hungry. Instead of feeding him, try leaving them with him for an hour to see if he will try. Morning is often a good time to do this, as he will be hungry after going through the night. If he doesn't eat them, then feed him. It takes a while for them to learn. It's good that he has learned to drink on his own.


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## fsimon (May 23, 2017)

Wow.. the peas seem to have done the trick...
This morning he flew out of his box.. onto a chair.. then the back of the chair.. onto a cabinet and up to the second floor )) I put him back to his box and now he's complaining, flapping his wings when I'm not around and staring at me like some puppy when I'm there.
Gonna try getting him to pick up some more peas before I feed him.


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## fsimon (May 23, 2017)

Also his droppings now become white with only what looks like the skin of the pea left in the middle instead of the whole thing like before

His claws are starting to become a problem thou  They somehow became needle-sharp unlike before.. so now whenever he runs up my arms he leaves claw-marks behind that itch ) magic peas... I tell you


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

We used to trim Phoebes claws very carefully with fingernail clippers just taking the tiniest part of the tips off the nails of each toe. But you need to do this very carefully or you will cut too short and the toe will bleed and that will hurt the bird. Alternatively you could use an emery board and over time gently file the tip off. After a while once she knew us, she no longer clawed at all.


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