# Vaccinate For PMV Or Not ??



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

We are trying to decide if we should vaccinate the Malibu pigeons for PMV. I had a blood sample sent in today to be tested for PMV from the most recent bird that came to me from Malibu. Hopefully the results will be available by mid-week.

There seem to be vastly differing opinions regarding whether to vaccinate when the birds are showing symptoms. I would appreciate everyone's input about this.

If we do decide to vaccinate, does it make any sense to use the La Sota live virus product which can be administered in the drinking water but which has only a 6-8 week effectiveness or use the Maine Biological killed vaccine that has to be injected?

Terry


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## alhowiriny (Jan 10, 2009)

Terry, from my reading La Sota live virus (aka Newcastle Disease) is ineffective in protecting pigeons and is different from the PPMV-1.

I would not suggest you vaccinate with a *live vaccine* in birds showing PMV symptoms and in weak/sick birds.
I had a pigeon with mild PMV symptoms lasting for months the symptoms disappeared and after i vaccinated it with La Sota live virus it started to show nervous symptoms and died within 10 days.
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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Terry, if your blood work indicates PMV, then go w/Maine Biological vaccine
as the La Sota vaccination has apparently proved ineffective in producing 
antibodies in birds that have received it:

http://www.siegelpigeons.com/asked-pmv.html

Excerpted from the above link:

"To prevent Paramyxovirus, the only product that is truly successful in the United States is the Maine Biological oil-adjuvant PMV-1 vaccine. Many fanciers are using the LaSota vaccine thinking they are protecting their birds, but challenge tests using the LaSota intraocular vaccine proved conclusively that the LaSota vaccine was not effective in producing antibodies for the pigeon PMV-1 virus. While the LaSota vaccine was effective for short-duration protection for NewCastles disease, this disease is almost non-existent in pigeons and should be differentiated from PMV-1."

I know that w/Pox virus, it is recomended that birds displaying symptoms not
be vaccinated as this may cause the virus to mutate to something more virulent. I don't see quite the same warnings for PMV, though only non-symptomatic birds should be vaccinated. There is a note of caution regarding the incubation time for the virus, i.e., up to six (6) weeks from the
following site which pulls it's information from several sources reputable sources.

http://www.epah.net/birds/Paramyxovirus.htm

"Incubation- The incubation period (the time when first exposed to the virus until signs from disease occurs) is typically one to two weeks, may be as long as four weeks, but is not usually over six weeks. This variable time period can allow the disease to spread slowly throughout the loft. Carriers may exist that are shedding the virus in their feces but not show any signs."

And the topic of vaccinating non-symptomatic birds:

"The most effective method to control the disease is to immediately vaccinate all apparently healthy birds in the face of the outbreak. Vaccinating already infected birds does little good and is not recommended. Maine Biological Laboratories' killed PMV-1 vaccine has proven to be very effective in stimulating an immune response and thus prevent disease. The vaccine does not, however, prevent infection; it merely limits the deleterious effects of the natural disease. Vaccinated birds, therefore, may carry a PMV-1 infection but not show signs."

I think you need to pick a strategy and follow through. It does seem as though they are saying that given the extended possibility of the incubation
period, they recommend vaccinating non-symptomatic birds regardless. Perhaps the end result of having the virus is more of a threat than a bird in the process of incubating the virus but not yet displaying symptoms being
vaccinated would pose.

fp


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Use the needle


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thank you everyone! Your posts support what I was thinking. I'll wait a bit to see if anyone else has input, and then we will formulate the plan and get it done next week. The logistics of this whole thing are formidable. The Malibu site is 75 miles northwest of me, the ceiling of the loft is more than 20 feet high making it very difficult to catch birds, and there are probably still 60+ birds there that most will need to be vaccinated. The count of the sick ones grows at my place every couple of days .. there is another one up there today that needs to get out and down to me. Jane is working on transport for that one. If we keep going at this rate, all those birds will be down here with me before we're done ..

Terry


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## alhowiriny (Jan 10, 2009)

Other Reading....

"*Treatment :*
LaSota vaccine strains administered via eye or nasal drop are not as efficacious in protecting from infections as expected. The LaSota strains replicate poorly in pigeon tissue so that high vaccine doses are necessary for interference and antibody production (protection only for 8 to 12 weeks). Vaccination with live vaccines may exacerbate latent chlamydia or pigeon herpesvirus infections. Parenteral administration of live Hitchner B1 vaccine has similar side effects but may provide six months of immunity. Inactivated vaccines are preferable for pigeons. In an active outbreak, vaccination with an inactivated vaccine will decrease the length of the disease and mitigate the clinical signs. Once CNS signs develop, vaccination is of no value; however, spontaneous recoveries do occur." Source : Avian Medicine, by Ritchie & Harrison; Chapter 32, [Page 926]


"..An effective oral vaccine has not been developed and requires the isolation of an apathogenic PMV-1 pigeon strain." Source : Avian Medicine, by Ritchie & Harrison; Chapter 32, [Page 927]
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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

alhowiriny said:


> Other Reading....
> 
> "*Treatment :*
> LaSota vaccine strains administered via eye or nasal drop are not as efficacious in protecting from infections as expected. The LaSota strains replicate poorly in pigeon tissue so that high vaccine doses are necessary for interference and antibody production (protection only for 8 to 12 weeks). Vaccination with live vaccines may exacerbate latent chlamydia or pigeon herpesvirus infections. Parenteral administration of live Hitchner B1 vaccine has similar side effects but may provide six months of immunity. Inactivated vaccines are preferable for pigeons. In an active outbreak, vaccination with an inactivated vaccine will decrease the length of the disease and mitigate the clinical signs. Once CNS signs develop, vaccination is of no value; however, spontaneous recoveries do occur." Source : Avian Medicine, by Ritchie & Harrison; Chapter 32, [Page 926]
> ...


Thank you for this additional information. Hopefully we will have a plan of action in the next couple of days. All the input is greatly appreciated.

Terry


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## Rockie (Jan 18, 2005)

Hi Terry. Not sure if you're already finished with the vx yet, but I'll give you my experiences with PMV Vx...

I've always used the Maine, killed virus, vx. Initially I wasn't 100% sure who truly had PMV or not, so I gave them all the vx (after losing tons of sleep over the dilema). Since then, I ended up giving the vx to all of them again, even the ones that evidently did have PMV. I had only one pigeon out of approx 30 that did have a little worsening of his PMV symptoms. I won't ever vx that pigeon again.

In general, I'm a really worry wart, but I feel very comfortable w/this vx.
Good luck.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

*PMV Test Was Positive*

After some extreme difficulty in getting a blood sample of the correct size and prepared in the proper way we finally got a sample off to the lab thanks to my beloved Dr. Lee. The test result came back on Monday .. positive for PMV. So, we now know for certain that PMV was/is rampant in the Malibu aviary. 

I believe the salmonellosis has been eradicated, but we still have to figure out how to tackle the PMV.

If I am reading the majority of the suggestions correctly, it looks like we should vaccinate all birds that are asymptomatic and continue to isolate and care for those showing symptoms.

There is a bit of a complication in that some eggs didn't get pulled and were already developing when this was discovered. Given the degree of development, we decided to leave the eggs and do the best we can with any babies that might hatch.

I would appreciate it if we could rehash this whole thing one more time and try to finalize a plan.

Thanks everyone!

Terry


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Bumping up .. comments/advice appreciated.

Terry


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## alhowiriny (Jan 10, 2009)

As i type this, i'm struggling with an outbreak of PMV in my loft. 10 birds died (2 adults, 5 youngs, 3 babies), 12 showing CNS signs. over 50 are showing other PMV symptoms. I've vaccinated them a month ago with live (LaSota vaccine), And with inactivated vaccine (chevivac-P200) a week ago before they showed any symptom.

*Here's a suggested plan.*


Prepare 2 different isolations/groups (A) & (B).
Isolate any bird that show CNS signs in (A)
Isolate any bird that show other signs in (B).
keep birds that don't show any symptoms (locked for 10~14 days) in their loft, lets call it (C).


 Vaccinate all birds in group (B) and (C) with an inactivated vaccine.
 Observe group (B) & (C) any bird showing CNS sign move it to group (A), any bird showing other PMV symptoms keep/move it to group (B).
 Treat all for any parasitic, canker, cocci.
 Treat with antibiotics if needed.
 Provide vitamins/minerals 3 days a week for 10 weeks.
 Clean, disinfected.
 You can re-vaccinate again (if needed) after 4 weeks form the first vaccination.

Eggs that hatched can be vaccinated at the first week (if) their parents were not vaccinated before (8 months at least), or should be delayed until 3 weeks of age (if) their parents were vaccinated before.

I've attached a photo regarding vaccination and virus progression in days.​


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thank you, alhowiriny, for that thoughtful and informative post. We have some serious logistics issues at this loft/aviary to deal with that would not readily allow for the procedure you have outlined. About the best we're going to be able to do is vaccinate the birds that are there (all of them) as the ones showing symptoms have already been removed and all of those are at my place as far as I know. 

I don't believe there have been any new cases showing symptoms for several weeks now, so hopefully we will be good to go on vaccinating all that remain in that loft/aviary.

There are several birds among the ones that I have that still have extreme symptoms, but I think we are starting to see light at the end of that tunnel as well. 

Terry


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

There are more knowledgeable people on this site then me, in regards to dealing with sick pigeons. But, if it were me, every bird on the property would be vaccinated. And those that survive would be vaccinated again in four weeks.

IMHO, I would never jeopardize the welfare of the entire Colony for any individual pigeon. 


I would think that this unfortunate experience, should serve as a warning to others not to use or depend on the vaccines which were used in this case. If you own any of the LaSota vaccine, throw it away, you just wasted some money.

The only vaccine for PMV that I am aware of, which is available in the USA, which has shown to offer some protection, is the type 1, killed virus, produced under US veterinary license in Maine. And the instructions call for two doses to be given at least 4 weeks apart. 

Prevention can be time consuming and a pain, but much less painful then trying to deal with it, once it is inside the loft. The Maine vaccine box says to vaccinate at from 4 to 8 weeks of age, and then to do it again 4 to 8 weeks later. IMHO, this only provides temporary protection, and I personally vaccinate every bird on the property in the fall. And with any new arrival.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Warren,

I think your advice is right on the mark for most cases. In this case, we managed to infect/jeopardize a loft of some 70-80 pigeons by introducing some new ones from a rescue. The new birds had been quarantined, but apparently not for long enough. The end result was salmonellosis in the loft AND PMV. Though I don't know the exact death count, I would guess it to be around 20 birds. This has been a nightmare with people driving 75 miles one way to bring me the latest bird that was suffering extreme symptoms on a number of occasions .. we've gone through this for a couple of months. I have about 20 birds at my place that were gotten out and brought to me for care. They were in extreme condition on arrival .. some died .. but most have survived.

At this point, we need to do our best to safeguard those remaining in the Malibu loft, and I do believe we will be vaccinating all of them as you have suggested.

I always knew pigeons were tough and dogged survivors, but a few of these birds that are with me have reinforced my belief in them as survivors .. HORRIBLE symptoms and not wanting to be hand fed and not wanting to be medicated and not wanting to be caged .. BUT they put up with my care and they have made it!

Terry


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Terry,

This is so sad. I have never experienced such a thing first hand, but a local fancier did. He did a rescue of a very young pair of pigeons "he felt sorry for" at a farmers market, and ended up introducing PMV into his loft. I don't know what the total death count was, but it involved 5 gal bucket's full of dead pigeons for a period of time. He had become a little too lax in his vaccination program, because nothing had ever happened before. So, like many other things in life, he took some things for granted. 

Maybe some good will come from this terrible experience, and fanciers reading this, who have become a bit lax in their vaccinations, will pay attention to this painful lesson, and take steps to avoid a similar thing in their own lofts. 

And then even if you vaccinate, and follow the guidelines, don't become over confident or careless. Far as I know, the Maine PMV vaccine, nor any other vaccine for that matter, is not 100% effective.


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## alhowiriny (Jan 10, 2009)

@TAWhatley, you are right about different procedures practiced in different sites.

To clarify my post, PMV produces 2 forms of clinical signs.. the non-CNS signs (vomting, diarrhea, lameness, respiratory stress, ruffled feathers..etc) And CNS sign (nervous symptoms). 

The ones with the non-CNS signs (Group B) can be vaccinated and might be protected from further/advanced CNS (nervous symptoms) this's why you give them the injection at the back of the neck (to produce local protection at the site of injection) this protection will cover the brain & the CNS (Central Nervous System) first within 10 days, then the whole body within 2 weeks. And i believe it will stop the shedding of the virus too.

The ones with the CNS (nervous symptoms) (Group A) can be vaccinated but it will be in vain (and it will waste your vaccine) because the damage is already been done and there's nothing to protect. the virus already reached its final destination at this point.

I guess i'm luckier than you, only 12 dead birds here. i'm planning to take out all the birds and wash the whole loft with formalin.


@SmithFamilyLoft, the reason why you vaccinate twice because younger birds don't produce enough antibodies like the mature ones with one shot, this's why you give them another *booster* after 4 weeks, you either give them live vaccine first then inactivated one after 4 weeks (which's better and less expensive and practical in large loft .. but has its side-effects) this's suggested by the OIE (here) or as you said give them 2 shots (inactivated) 4 weeks apart (which's more expensive and less practical in large loft .. but safer).

Using one shot will give them protection for 6-8 months maximum. and giving them double shots separated (in 4 weeks) give them protection for 12 months minimum. There's one side-effect on giving double shots and that's what's known as vaccine shock in mature birds (bird dies from cardiac failure) but this's rare and only happens 1/1000 birds.

Squabs can be givin the vaccine at any age provided their parents didn't get vaccinate before (not less than 2 weeks before mating and not more than 8 months) if they were vaccinated say 3 months before laying the eggs then you shouldn't vaccinate the squabs untill 3 weeks or older of age so the vaccine won't interfere with the passive immunity they got from their parents.
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## Escorpio123 (Oct 8, 2009)

*I am not sure.*

I am not sure if the pigeon I found yesterday has Paramyxovirus, he cannot get the food, but he doesnt do that weird thing that pigeons usually do when they Paramyxovirus. What should I do? I am looking for the shelter number and the Animal Care Center near my house. Is the disease contagious to humans?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Escorpio123 said:


> I am not sure if the pigeon I found yesterday has Paramyxovirus, he cannot get the food, but he doesnt do that weird thing that pigeons usually do when they Paramyxovirus. What should I do? I am looking for the shelter number and the Animal Care Center near my house. Is the disease contagious to humans?


Is this bird an adult? Could you post a picture? What do you mean by "He cannot get the food"? No it's not contagious to humans, but of course, any wild animal that you handle, you should always wash your hands well after handling.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Jay3 said:


> Is this bird an adult? Could you post a picture? What do you mean by "He cannot get the food"? No it's not contagious to humans, but of course, any wild animal that you handle, you should always wash your hands well after handling.


The bird passed on, Jay.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Charis said:


> The bird passed on, Jay.


Oh. Sorry. 
Thanks Charis.


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