# Pigeon GPS Backpack



## kbraden (Mar 27, 2010)

Saw this ad in the latest AU newsletter for a little GPS device that you harness on the bird's back. Was wondering if anyone has used it and what your thoughts were? 

http://www.pigeontrack.com


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## Ashby Loft (Aug 31, 2007)

Very cool. I like this idea and I have often thought about how one might be able to use GPS technology to track pigeons in flight. I think this unit would be useful, but I am hoping for the day there might be a less obtrusive (smaller and lighter weight) option which might be able to send real time updates to your computer. I think it will happen at some point.


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

I haven't tried it but to me it's kinda dumb. If the bird gets lost or a hawk gets it you lose your GPS unit. I wouldn't get anything GPS device for my birds until they actually show you where the bird is not like the ones they have where the bird had to get home and you have to download the info. It might be a way off but eventually they'll have a device you can put on your bird that's small enuff that it won't effect the birds flight at all where you actually track the birds as they are on their way home. If they ever had somthing like that I could see the sport grow in terms of gambeling. You could have a loft say in vagas with races that ppl could watch on a screen where the birds were and watch the birds when they actually got home. Somthing like they have now where they have all the horse race.


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## kbraden (Mar 27, 2010)

I agree with the real time tracking, that would be terrific! And very true too, if the bird gets lost or hawk attacked, there goes the GPS (and the bird) Was just curious tho, how well it tracked waypoints and such. Wasn't going to buy one, I can think of better things to do with that kind of money. But like you all said, if it was real time on the comupter, i think I would have to splurge  Would be nice if they could devise one that resembled the clock bands, something tiny and a leg band that could transmit.


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

Those tiny real-time trackers do exist, they are just too expensive and are used by bird researchers. I talked to a buddy of mine who used some to track bats and he said in one night they found three new cave entrances they didn't know about. Pretty cool stuff. 

He told me to rest assured that the technology will become common and relativlely affordable given some time.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Technology is becoming more advanced & smaller every day.
If a use for something is availlable, then the cost & size willl shrink.
The technology behind the tracker kbraden mentions is already being used by millions of people in everyday life although they probably dont even know it.
A few months ago, a couple of British developers were working on an app for the i-phone when they discovered a hidden file on the phone (not accessable by the general phone user but can be accessed with development programs & equipment)
On further investigation of this file they discovered that it was linked to the GPS software in the phone and contained recorded location coordinate data from GPS satellites that the phone uses for navigation software.
This data is updated every 30 seconds, even when the navigation program is not in use, and when they fully de-coded it they could track the journey of the phone since the day it was first switched on.
So anyone with an i-phone actually has a spy-phone !!!!
George Orwell 1984 - BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU


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## flewthecoupe (Mar 28, 2005)

I just ordered one of these tonight. Looks like fun. I can think of worse things to spend my money on.
I would love to have an affordable real time tracker!


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*I rember an artical in the Racing Pigeon Digest where a device was used during a young bird race. This device was put on an old bird and the bird was releaced with the YB's. The YB all homed in ONE day it took the old bird TWO days,but they did know where he spent the night.(LOL) On race day, I only want to know that my bird is home, and in the loft.I will try to find the issue of RPD that has this artical.I would leave you with this to think about, there are people that make a living selling supplements,,equipment,and meds. Just pick up any Pigeon catalog and see all the stuff listed. But its a hobbie and if you want to spend your money for these things, enjoy your self.* GEORGE


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

I suppose it would be interesting to plot their route, but, if you lose the bird, you lose the unit.


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## Wingsonfire (Dec 22, 2009)

flewthecoupe said:


> I just ordered one of these tonight. Looks like fun. I can think of worse things to spend my money on.
> I would love to have an affordable real time tracker!


If you get a chance let us know how it works and how well you like it


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## kbraden (Mar 27, 2010)

Wingsonfire said:


> If you get a chance let us know how it works and how well you like it


Same here! I think it would be interesting to see where they go all day.


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## flewthecoupe (Mar 28, 2005)

I it in the mail yesterday installed the
Harness and training block and left the bird 
In the coupe for the day with it.
Today I let the birds out to loft fly
And guess who's missing


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## flewthecoupe (Mar 28, 2005)

He's back 11 hours later .
A bit tired , he gets the day off tomorrow

They need to make these things alot smaller


This is the weighted training block


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Did you track the bird on your computer????
OR how did you track the bird.
It was gone for 11 hours and you did not know where it was????
Did the GPS work any at all?????


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## flewthecoupe (Mar 28, 2005)

Did not use the gps on bird yet.
Wanna make sure he was gonna make it home with the dummy 
Weight on his back First before I through $180 away

I'm still messing with the gps I'm not sure
If it sucks or of it's operator error.

I need to spend more time figuring it out.
First attempts on ground didnt work.
I held the gps out the window of the Caron
My way to work tonight, I'll check when I get
Home tomorrow if it logged any points.

The pigeon will need alot of practice with
The weighted block before he will be let out with 
The others. He's gonna rest tomorrow and maybe 
I'll loft fly him by his self the following day.

Or I may give up on the idea cause I can't afford 
To loose another bird

This is a gps logger not real time.
I won't know where he has been until he comes
Home and I down load the gps


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Thanks for the Reply--keep us posted.
I have not really read or heard how it works.
I thought it tracked the bird in flight.


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## flewthecoupe (Mar 28, 2005)

The gps is the same size as the block of
Wood on his back in the pic above


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## ccccrnr (Jun 15, 2010)

That looks pretty cool

do you have a gram scale to see how much it weights with battery?


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## flewthecoupe (Mar 28, 2005)

Manuel says 12.3 grams
Equivalent to a human carrying a 6 pound
Back pack


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## irishsyndicate (Sep 19, 2008)

kbraden said:


> Saw this ad in the latest AU newsletter for a little GPS device that you harness on the bird's back. Was wondering if anyone has used it and what your thoughts were?
> 
> http://www.pigeontrack.com


I have used this extensively up to 100 miles. Generally used it on an older champion bird that has flown several races including a 500 mile race (In this way, it is on a known "good" pigeon). I used it to tell
me the paths the youngbirds were taking to come home from 40-50 miles - and apply any course-correction training to get them to come the path I wanted them to take....

I also used it loft-flying around the loft to see where the birds were routing too..... got some very interesting data.


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## flewthecoupe (Mar 28, 2005)

irishsyndicate said:


> I have used this extensively up to 100 miles. Generally used it on an older champion bird that has flown several races including a 500 mile race (In this way, it is on a known "good" pigeon). I used it to tell
> me the paths the youngbirds were taking to come home from 40-50 miles - and apply any course-correction training to get them to come the path I wanted them to take....
> 
> I also used it loft-flying around the loft to see where the birds were routing too..... got some very interesting data.


Did you have any problems changing the
Time intervals between points taken.

My results driving to work were ok but it didn't 
Work if there were trees around

My test pigeon did better today but the rest of
The flock was Mia for 5 hours


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## flewthecoupe (Mar 28, 2005)

Well I let my bird put with the gps with my other birds today.
The pigeon with the back pack was an hour later than the rest.

When I down loaded the gps there where 81 points recorded
76 of them where at the same location. 2 miles from the loft
The points where all within a few hundred feet of each other and I showed Jim flying less than 2 miles an hour . I assume the bird was sitting in a tree not moving.
The next three points the bird was on his way home clocking between 40&50 miles an hour according to the gps. The last 2 points where at the loft.

Still can't change the time intervals between points recorded.

And there where no points recorded the first hour of the birds flight.

I may give this one more try this week but that's it

So far I'm not impressed and don't recommend this one
I think it's to much of a strain on the bird.
And isn't reliable enough 

If I find I'm doing something wrong I'll keep everyone up to date


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

probably stopped to try & rid himself of backpack lol
GPS isnt all its cracked up to be. 
While it has advanced a great deal in the last decade, and can plot routes within 50 - 60 feet accuracy, it does rely on triangulation coordinates from satelites which constantly move out of alignment as the earth rotates, and signals can be easilly lost or distorted around large metal objects or power lines. When this happens the reciever uses previous data till it can lock on to another satelite & new data is recieved.


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## kbraden (Mar 27, 2010)

Very interesting... thanks for keeping this thread going and all the updates on how well this thing works.


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## Wayne Johnson (Oct 1, 2010)

It sounds like your's is defective. I went to the web address you posted and this is what it said,
"This GPS tracking unit kit includes the same list as above, except this battery lasts 48 hours and GPS tracking data is set to take a reading every 3 minutes. Please note that this is NOT VARIABLE. At a speed of 40.9 mph (1200 ypm), which is equivalent to readings every 2 miles with it being programmed to turn off between each reading."

Says it is NOT variable.


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## flewthecoupe (Mar 28, 2005)

That's the longer life battery

I have the one that lasts up to 5 hours


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## ccccrnr (Jun 15, 2010)

*good gps info*

there is some good info here.

i've played around with gps units, even the small ones for hobby aircraft.

for $180 i thought i can make one of those.
then
at 12.3 grams i can Not make one of those
best might maybe at ~60grams or so (which very light, 2oz)

i wonder if it uses and all in one custom made digital IC and receiver??

nice toy you have


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## Empeethree (Aug 21, 2011)

I have had one of these pigeon track gps units for about a year now. I love it. I use it in the spring when training my race birds to see where they are flying. It would be nice if the data was real time but it is a great tool for race training as it is.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

kbraden said:


> Saw this ad in the latest AU newsletter for a little GPS device that you harness on the bird's back. Was wondering if anyone has used it and what your thoughts were?
> 
> http://www.pigeontrack.com


 Unless I missed a post somewhere, it looks like no one has actually used this particular unit. My concern is the weight of the unit, as it would limit the distance a bird could travel while wearing it. If I did miss a post, or if someone out there has used it, I would like to know how far a pigeon could safely travel and still return in reasonable time. I am thinking that ideally, I would like a unit light enough so that say a 75 or 100 mile toss would be OK. I also think that I would need a system that would plot the flight path more often then say every two or three miles. 

I really would like to know what the so called "natural fly ways" are along the flight path home. I am thinking that such knowledge could help me discover better training release points. Of course when I do buy some, and discover some great insight, I'm never going to share it with anyone, less they go out and discover it as well.....


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## Matt M (Mar 2, 2011)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Unless I missed a post somewhere, it looks like no one has actually used this particular unit. My concern is the weight of the unit, as it would limit the distance a bird could travel while wearing it. If I did miss a post, or if someone out there has used it, I would like to know how far a pigeon could safely travel and still return in reasonable time. I am thinking that ideally, I would like a unit light enough so that say a 75 or 100 mile toss would be OK. I also think that I would need a system that would plot the flight path more often then say every two or three miles.
> 
> I really would like to know what the so called "natural fly ways" are along the flight path home. I am thinking that such knowledge could help me discover better training release points. Of course when I do buy some, and discover some great insight, I'm never going to share it with anyone, less they go out and discover it as well.....


Warren -- From Irish Syndicate's one post on this thread I believe he is using this particular unit and doing exactly what you proposed... Sounds like it works for him and with his race record and extensive record in one loft races it got my attention...


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## Empeethree (Aug 21, 2011)

I haven't notice the weight of the GPS putting too much strain on my birds. They seem to arrive at about the same time as my birds flying without the pack on.


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## ccccrnr (Jun 15, 2010)

Empeethree said:


> I haven't notice the weight of the GPS putting too much strain on my birds. They seem to arrive at about the same time as my birds flying without the pack on.


good to hear, found a Russian GPS using GLONASS that would get the weight down to maybe 20gr total for DIY home brew backpack

i may have to get some and try it.
sounds like a cool technology


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## Empeethree (Aug 21, 2011)

Interesting. How big is the unit? The pigeontrack GPS is 12 grams, so you're still a fair amount heavier than the store bought unit.


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## ccccrnr (Jun 15, 2010)

hi mp3,

still in design planning on how i'll try to put it together but should be 60mm x 24mm or less ~(2in x 1in) or less


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## Matt M (Mar 2, 2011)

I found this website with an alternative to the GPS backpack -- the software that comes with it looks light years ahead of the one sold here in the U.S. but I can't figure out yet if they are actually selling them worldwide or just in Europe / Asia. The price is 180 Euros which is about $247 at today's exchange rate.

Here's the website: http://www.pigeongps.com/index-en.htm

Anyone seen this or have any more info on it?


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## ccccrnr (Jun 15, 2010)

Matt M said:


> I found this website with an alternative to the GPS backpack -- the software that comes with it looks light years ahead of the one sold here in the U.S. but I can't figure out yet if they are actually selling them worldwide or just in Europe / Asia. The price is 180 Euros which is about $247 at today's exchange rate.
> 
> Here's the website: http://www.pigeongps.com/index-en.htm
> 
> Anyone seen this or have any more info on it?


i don't know i'd go as far as to say the software is light years ahead, but i'm just looking at the videos since i don't have either downloaded

The Pathfinder is from some country in the Atlantic (i think Arona), but the real difference to me is in their theory on how a pigeon should carry the load of the GPS
Pathfinder hangs the GPS in a dongle around the pigeons neck
PigeonTrack straps it down over wing muscles in the back

considering man has attached messages and items to pigeons legs for centuries, when i get mine built, i plan on putting it between the pigeons legs or by the keel

thats my thought anyway, 
ps my GLONASS/GPS receivers finally arrived from Taiwan...yeah


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## teekay_tk (Jul 7, 2012)

I had been watching this discussion for a year now. 
I have cracked it and my design GPS now is only 9 grams in weight

I am selling it on ebay if you search for pigeon GPS or Mi-TRAX

Can somebody recommend a way to make a harness for it?

Thanks


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