# Recommended sites for calciboost and probiotics?



## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Have run out of these and am wondering where others purchase them, and which probiotics you recommend. Thank you.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I normally buy the CalciBoost here
http://www.justbirdstuff.com/Calciboost-Liquid-Calcium-Supplement.html
But they were working on their website and I couldn't order at that time, so I googled it, and found this place, with better price.
https://www.allparrotproducts.com/the-birdcare-company-calciboost-liquid/
So I bought it there and at a better price. With shipping included at All Parrot Products, it cost me what I would have paid at the other place, then would have had to pay shipping.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I am currently using Probios. Have tried different ones.


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

I use Calcivet and Avipro Avian because it's a pre and pro biotic, whereas Avipro is just a probiotic and I get both from sites on Amazon.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Jay3 and FredaH, thanks! Will check out what you have recommended.


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## Howl (Nov 9, 2017)

Hi FredaH and Jay3, could you please let me know if the brand name matters as long as the liquid contains both vitamin D3 and calcium? Vetafarm also has a product called Calcivet, it contains D3 & calcium but not magnesium. Does the inclusion of magnesium matter?

Info of Vetafarm's calcivet as below:

Directions:
Water: Add 5mL per 250mL of drinking water. Supply as a sole source of drinking water, replace daily.
Seed: Pour 5mL over 1 cup soaked seed.
Direct dose: 0.2mL per 100g body weight.

Active Constituents: Calcium Ions 33 mg/mL, Vitamin D3 25 IU/mL


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Calcivet is the same as the CalciBoost we get over here. I use the liquid CalciBoost in the water, a couple of times a week, but can dose an individual bird with it as well.


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## Howl (Nov 9, 2017)

Jay3 said:


> Calcivet is the same as the CalciBoost we get over here. I use the liquid CalciBoost in the water, a couple of times a week, but can dose an individual bird with it as well.


I think the one you use is from The BirdCare Company, but I was asking about the product of Vetafarm, and it does not contain magnesium.

Here's a picture of it:


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

magnesium helps with the absorption of calcium. You can use either one. Don't over do though, as too much is as bad as not enough.


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## Howl (Nov 9, 2017)

Many thanks, Jay3


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

I was wondering the purposes of supplementing calcium, is there a deficiency expressed somehow? Why are you doing it? Are your pigeons laying an excessive amount of eggs? Are you pumping eggs from a particular pair and fostering to other pairs? Why add calcium? I am providing a mixed grit containing oyster shell, do you feel this is not enough? 

I see the point in probiotics particularly after using an antibiotic. I have tried using one on regular bases and do not really see any difference in the birds. Do you notice a difference when you use one? If so what do you notice?


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

I will add I order a lot from Jeffers, prices are good and shipping is pretty quick.
https://www.jefferspet.com/products/vets-plus-poultry-provita


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Most hens don't really get enough calcium which eventually leads to problems. They don't get enough from grit. And indoor birds don't get the vit. D3 they need either.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

Jay3 said:


> Most hens don't really get enough calcium which eventually leads to problems. They don't get enough from grit. And indoor birds don't get the vit. D3 they need either.


How did you come to the conclusion that most hens don't really get enough calcium and don't get enough from grit? I can see an indoor bird not getting any sunlight having a Vitamin D deficiency. In that case it makes sense. Have your birds shown signs of a deficiency?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I'm not going to argue the fact with you. No point. Many hens are deficient and have egg or reproductive problems. It takes a lot of their calcium stores to make eggs. If they don't get enough calcium/D3, they will eventually run into problems. So will the babies that they hatch.


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## Howl (Nov 9, 2017)

Flapdoodle said:


> I was wondering the purposes of supplementing calcium, is there a deficiency expressed somehow? Why are you doing it? Are your pigeons laying an excessive amount of eggs? Are you pumping eggs from a particular pair and fostering to other pairs? Why add calcium? I am providing a mixed grit containing oyster shell, do you feel this is not enough?
> 
> I see the point in probiotics particularly after using an antibiotic. I have tried using one on regular bases and do not really see any difference in the birds. Do you notice a difference when you use one? If so what do you notice?


Hi Flapdoodle. Re calcium, I have only 2 pigeons and both are female, so their eggs are infertile and as a result they lay eggs roughly once (2 eggs per bird) per month. I usually give them crushed chicken egg shells and almond, which is very rich in calcium. I've never seen soft shell or misshapen eggs, but am still concerned about the possibility of egg binding, which would be dangerous for the birds considering that I cannot find an avian vet in my city.

Thank you for the recommendation of Jeffers, I did not know this supplier before, it sounds like a good one.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

They may be getting enough calcium with egg shells they get, but they need vit. D3 in order to absorb the calcium. Where they are inside birds, they aren't getting the D3 they need. Bird vitamins with D3 included would help.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

Jay3 said:


> They may be getting enough calcium with egg shells they get, but they need vit. D3 in order to absorb the calcium. Where they are inside birds, they aren't getting the D3 they need. Bird vitamins with D3 included would help.


I totally agree. The product I posted has D3 other vitamins and the probiotics. I am not trying to be argumentive and apologize if it comes off that way. Everyone's point of few and perspective is a little different. In most situations, I would advise against adding calcium to the water. You are far better off offering crushed eggshell, oyster shell, and varied mineral grit. The bird can choose if it wants more calcium rather than forcing it (in the water). Too much calcium can be just a bad as too little. It prevents the availability to utilize protein, fat and other vitamins as well as being toxic to the birds. 

Again these are just observations and a different perspective. I have had one egg bound hen in well over 1000 eggs laid. In my case, it was due to an overweight young hen in a confined cage trying to lay. There are several causes for a hen to be egg bound. Too young, egg too large, too much protein, not enough calcium, not enough exercise... 

In my mind under a normal situation a cock and pair up, cock drives hen they build a nest, all while trimming excess body weight due to the entire process. The hen who has been getting plenty of exercises is fit and trim and if given adequate diet but not as much as normal because of the driving cock, will lay healthy eggs without problems 99.9% of the time. 

In my case in a small confined breeding hutch, none of what should happen under a normal situation occurred. And it led to problems. The cock really did not have to drive the hen, they did not have to really work to build a nest, food and water were in front of them all the time. I was kind of fighting against what is natural for the birds.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

We would do very well with our birds if we worked with what is natural to them. I know this is hard for a bird that is confined with one or too other pigeons or for a bird that is on a racing team. We would be wise if we tried to work with what comes naturally to them rather then against it.

Are you encouraging your birds to lay eggs when you do not want eggs laid? Particularly for a bird inside. Are you feeding a high fat and protein diet, (peanuts because the birds love them) lights on in the morning and evening. That is stuff I do to get my birds to lay in the winter.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Hens will lay anyway, whether you encourage them or not.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Our avian expert, Dr Speer, did caution us. Dont pet any female pigeon on the back. Reduce lights at night ( we covered her cage). Plus we stopped feeding her peanuts and switched from high fat seed diets to zupreem cockatiel, which was lower in fat, to discourage egg laying.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

You can't stop a hen from laying but you can discourage rather than encourage.

Lock them up at five or six in the evening in a dark room
Low fat and protien diet, I cut there normal feed with 75% barley
Only provide stick perches with room for one bird
The only time the hens are allowed off the perches is when they eat and drink
Let the cocks and hens together once every week or so then separate them again, it helps in keeping the hens from pairing up
Obviously this will not work in many situations but there are ways to discourage them from laying. I do 2, 3 and 5 with some success July-Nov. I do occasionally get a hen that lays anyway but the majority of mine do not.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I see what you are saying, but that just doesn't work for people keeping pets or rescues that you want to have as normal a life as possible. What would be the purpose of keeping them if you have to keep them like that? It works for some but not in all situations.


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## Howl (Nov 9, 2017)

Gee, I really appreciate the care all of you have for my birds  I did not received this much advice and helpful info when I asked my vets about the matter.

I think I did inadvertently encourage them to lay more by letting them stay up too late in artificial light, as my birds like spending their time in my room and sometimes would stay until 7 pm or even later in the summer. This will be fixed in the future.

On separating them, I am more with Jay3 that this is not a solution for my case. My 2 birds are very attached to each other, I had tried separating them before when one of them got sick, but the other would refused to eat or drink and keep calling her mate. So I think I will have to let them be with each other all the time even if it is worse for them physically.

@cwebster: is this the pellet you are talking about:
https://www.zupreem.com/products/birds/natural/medium-birds/
Could you please let me know the approximate pellet size? One of my birds has difficulty swallowing/pecking large grains.


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