# Open Loft Design



## ductape (Jan 24, 2011)

Hello everyone, I am new here. I have been reading some of this forum for the last year or so but finally decided to create an account.

I am trying to come up with a good design for an open loft that is predator resistant. We have some hawks,cats and raccoons here and what I want to create is a type of loft where the pigeons can come and go as they please and also not be an absolute requirement that I close them up at night. I want this to be a very low maintenance situation.

These are not going to be racing birds. I live in San Francisco and we, like most all major cities, have an abundance of feral pigeons. I live next to a very large park with a large population of feral pigeons and I want to provide a home for some of that flock, either they themselves or rescued pigeons I get from animal control.

These birds are to be more like how we keep chickens. Of course I dont expect a big egg yield from them, but what I do want is their extremely valuable manure which is high in zinc. I also adore pigeons and will be using these birds in part of the classes I teach and help raise their status from how many people regard them here in the city.

We have a definite abundance of these birds and I hope to be able to show, similar to other studies done, that if the birds are given a good home their fertility rates actually decrease. That along with swapping out their eggs for dummy eggs can greatly reduce urban pigeon populations and keep the poisoners and trappers from getting those big city contracts. This has worked very well in Europe and a few American cities, I want to bring this idea here also.

So, to wrap it up, I want a loft design i can build that will be cat and raccoon proof. I have an interesting situation that I think will greatly reduce the hawk issue. The loft will be located under the roof of an old greenhouse with missing roof panels. The old glass panel frames will deter hawks from being able to dive into the area around the loft. Now we just have to consider the cats and raccoons. 

I have looked at several of the plans on here but maybe I have not found them all. If anyone has experience of a completely open loft I would love to hear about it. Thanks so much for reading this.

-David


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## TN_PIGEON (Aug 20, 2010)

What about the see-saw pigeon landing boards?

Another thought is to make a longer tube/trap (sorta like a long tunnel). It'll be more difficult to train the birds to trap, but it could deter cats and raccoons.

I also wonder if it might help to use something similar to the squirrel proof bird feeder? Usually have an inverted funnel or downward facing spikes on a pole. 

Lastly...surround the trap with a real smooth piece of metal or plastic to make it more difficult for cats and ***** to climb (wonder if it'd help to spread petroleum jelly on it???).

Note: I haven't tried any of these, but have seen similar things on bluebird houses and bird feeders.


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## Wayne Johnson (Oct 1, 2010)

look for the book on Dove Cotes


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## GEMcC5150 (Oct 24, 2010)

I don't think you are looking to trap. It sound to me loke you want a cat proof open fyl way is that right?


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## ductape (Jan 24, 2011)

Thanks for all the responses, I couldn't find that book but I will keep looking.

@GEMcC5150: Yes I am not looking to trap feral birds, I want to create a very passive design where birds can come and go as they please, go out to the park and feed themselves, bathe, water, etc. I also want to have it so that I don't have to let them out and in each day.

The birds here survive on their own, but mostly under roof eves and similar type spots where cats and raccoons cannot possible get at them.

I like the idea of unscalable sides or inverted spikes... Any other ideas? Any examples of an open loft working in an urban/suburban setting with cats and raccoons?


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## Wayne Johnson (Oct 1, 2010)

More reading should help you. A trap is not to capture wild birds. It is to allow birds in but not allow them out the same way or to keep other critters out. It is actually a door. It is how you will make this more secure. If you do a search for Dove Cotes you will see many designs for sale in Britain. What you are talking about would be like the ones in europe. They are more or less like a loft but with open traps to allow the birds to come and go freely. The dove cote book is free online, I will try to find it for you.


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## Wayne Johnson (Oct 1, 2010)

My email address is 
[email protected]
Send me a message and I will send the pdf file to you. It is just over 4mb in size. If should go through easily. 

Wayne


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## ductape (Jan 24, 2011)

I get what you mean by trap now, i have done lots of looking at pictures and have seen a few trap designs on doors, some with hinged doors and some have metal rods or thin bars that only hinge one way.

My question is, if there is a trap that allows birds in, wouldn't it also allow cats and raccoons in? And if there is a door that allows the birds out, likewise the cats and raccoons can get back out also.

Thanks for looking up that book, greatly appreciated.


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## Wayne Johnson (Oct 1, 2010)

The simple way is to build a set of nest boxes up on a wall. Several look like big martin houses.


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## Wayne Johnson (Oct 1, 2010)

I have just posted a detailed diagram of the sputnic trap that is now cat resistant. It relies on a teater board. There is also a very simple, and more of what you need, design called an "old Scottish" there is a link to the video that shows it in action. 

Wayne


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## ductape (Jan 24, 2011)

Hi Wayne, where is this at?


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## ductape (Jan 24, 2011)

I found all I need with your help!

Scottish trap was they key, put that into YouTube and I get a goldmine of resources. Thanks!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7bucm6KJRw&feature=related


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## Wayne Johnson (Oct 1, 2010)

ductape said:


> Hi Wayne, where is this at?


It is on the same page as your post under "loft Designs" labled "cat resistant Sputnic"


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## TN_PIGEON (Aug 20, 2010)

ductape said:


> My question is, if there is a trap that allows birds in, wouldn't it also allow cats and raccoons in? And if there is a door that allows the birds out, likewise the cats and raccoons can get back out also.
> 
> Thanks for looking up that book, greatly appreciated.


Yes. A cat can enter through a pigeon trap door (that's why most folks close their trap doors after the birds have entered). 

If you build a dovecote on a pole, you could also invert a plastic bucket or flower pot to shield the birds from the cats and *****.










Wall mounted dovecote










Pole mounted


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## Wayne Johnson (Oct 1, 2010)

I found this article that addresses this topic well. It is of a public loft. The idea is to provide a safe home for the ferral birds to live, eat and lay eggs. The eggs are switched for plaster ones. This is a much more humane way of reducing the population than poisoning or live trapping.

http://www.duivenoverlast.nl/pigeonloft.htm


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## GEMcC5150 (Oct 24, 2010)

I like what you want to do for the pigeon of San Fran. We were there over Christmas and there are a lot of birds in some places. Good luck with your project.


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## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

GUYS THIS GUY only want to trap feral pigeons and use them for food, and he came here to get an advice on how to create a loft.. please.. stop replying to him.. he got two more threads open.. he should be banned from making an appearance on this site again.. read his other threads.. he want to kill them for meet, he wanna kill their babies..
he thinks he gonna make a small fortune selling pigeon meat in california


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## ductape (Jan 24, 2011)

this is not true and you accusation is just childish and ridiculous. Seriously grow up here. I am an ecologist, not a farmer. I made one statement, ONE about culling overpopulation of pigeons in a forest setting. Instantly I am accused of trying to MAKE A FORTUNE ON THE BABIES!

the reaction I am experiencing here is pretty alarming and just weird coming from a lot of folks who I bet eat meat. Honestly hypocritical. To the vegetarians here, then this is not directed at you.

Dont worry, I wont be needing to post any more since the information and discussion I have found here were not very valuable for me.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

See ya don't let the door hit you in the as###


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## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

what a looser.. you cant make a fortune even if u wanted to.. ecologist my a.s.s.
do us all a favor and get lost.. people like u are not worth talking too
he an ecologist hahaha
funny man


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## ductape (Jan 24, 2011)

never said i wanted to make a fortune, or even make any money at all. Not once did I ever say anything about selling pigeons or making any money whatsoever. Not sure where ya got that. 

Whats wrong with this community? Why all the fuming hatred?


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

ductape said:


> never said i wanted to make a fortune, or even make any money at all. Not once did I ever say anything about selling pigeons or making any money whatsoever. Not sure where ya got that.
> 
> Whats wrong with this community? Why all the fuming hatred?


Perhaps it has to do with your deception in your posts (whether intentional or not)
You'll note this thread was started on 25th January & I quote



ductape said:


> Hello everyone, I am new here. I have been reading some of this forum for the last year or so but finally decided to create an account.
> 
> I am trying to come up with a good design for an open loft that is predator resistant. We have some hawks,cats and raccoons here and what I want to create is a type of loft where the pigeons can come and go as they please and also not be an absolute requirement that I close them up at night. I want this to be a very low maintenance situation.
> 
> ...


Note I have highlighted a couple of points
Now going to your other threads started AFTER this one


ductape said:


> thanks all for this wonderful information.
> 
> Population increase is what we need actually, its good to see that so many can be generated in just one year. Overpopulation is not really a concern though, ...................





ductape said:


> ..... Pigeons have always been a source of food in human settlements, for thousands of years, this is the natural way of controlling their population. When you remove an animal from the pressure of predators, it is our job to play that role that would normally play out on its own.
> 
> You may think it is more humane to swap eggs, but I bet you many people around the world would think that practice is not only silly, but irresponsible when people go hungry every day. Lets please not pass judgment on the cultural practices of others simply based upon your own preference. Pigeons have been bred over many thousands of years to feed humans, no way around that if you do your homework.........................


There are other contradictory references & statements as well but to be honest I neither have the time or inclination to sift through it all again.
When one starts a story & has full intention of its outcome from day one, then ones fundamental statements do not change.
When one lies or decieves however, this does and is evident from your three topics which bring out your contradictions of thought.


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## ductape (Jan 24, 2011)

wow, amazing detective work there.

Except, this thread was dragged up from a year ago by someone else to lay accusations at me. This thread has no lies in it, it from a year ago. The new threads are a whole new design idea taking place on a 400 acre piece of land that I didnt even have access to last year.

I am amazed at how far you are willing to stretch what I said and turn it into something else to suit the purposes of uncovering my evil intentions to start a pigeon farm and make lots of money. This is just not true and y'all seem very paranoid to me.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

ductape said:


> wow, amazing detective work there.
> 
> Except, this thread was dragged up from a year ago by someone else to lay accusations at me. This thread has no lies in it, it from a year ago. The new threads are a whole new design idea taking place on a 400 acre piece of land that I didnt even have access to last year.
> 
> I am amazed at how far you are willing to stretch what I said and turn it into something else to suit the purposes of uncovering my evil intentions to start a pigeon farm and make lots of money. This is just not true and y'all seem very paranoid to me.


The pigeons will fly back to where they were raised. so you would have to buy pairs and keep them in untill you have young ones you can let out and they would stay ..if they have ample food..otherwise they will search elswhere, just as any feral flock does. manure is not that expensive and bird droppings need to cure or be composted before it can be used direct on a garden...some wild plants do not even like allot of manure so it depends on the plants in question. for this plan to work you would have to work at it and swap the eggs out..also hawks can be a problem with an open loft situation..so you can get a resident hawk/s that will probalby take them out one by one in an open rual land situation..in town they have hiding places.


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## jaelyn loft (Oct 25, 2011)

Shadybug Lofts said:


> See ya don't let the door hit you in the as###


i love this site lol


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