# what do think??



## Albannai (Jan 21, 2001)

What do you think about this color???


http://im27.gulfup.com/gCdh2.gif

http://im27.gulfup.com/Q8Av1.gif


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

I don't know much about color, but it's a beautiful pigeon and looks like a strong one, with good muscle.


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## Albannai (Jan 21, 2001)

Dima said:


> I don't know much about color, but it's a beautiful pigeon and looks like a strong one, with good muscle.


you are right it is stong and good looking bird... it is a dragoon... I did not mean how good is the bird .. my question was .. what you think about the color??


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## Henk69 (Feb 25, 2010)

Opal? with spread.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

I'm unsure, Interested to know though.


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## ljb107 (Apr 15, 2007)

Do you have photos of the parents?


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## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

I'm thinking it looks like frill stencil and indigo but its difficult to determine juvenile feather color. A pic of tail and extended wing would be helpful.


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

It is an interesting color, unusual to see in a dragoon. I would also guess TS (or maybe opal spread), but am not in the least sure...


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## Albannai (Jan 21, 2001)

hi again...

first I saw it i thought it is TS but, when they sent me parents pic's . I think it undergrizzle.

more pic's for the same bird..

http://www.gulfup.com/?xoB560

http://www.gulfup.com/?Zaeiqe

http://www.gulfup.com/?W6Kf6R

http://www.gulfup.com/?GREQ4l

parents... pic..

Father is Deroy.

http://www.gulfup.com/?kG0Urw

Mother is Indigo.. with marks of grizzle..white feathers throughout shield..

http://www.gulfup.com/?5SOWgO

http://www.gulfup.com/?pLThe9


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## ljb107 (Apr 15, 2007)

I'm going to say its possibly an andalusian with pencil then.


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

Pencil could be a good fit... Or (under)grizzle, though I've not seen it so regular before. Since the bird is still young, it might change considerably with the moult. Much of the white may even disappear.

I agree that it is probably spread indigo. Mother could be a dark indigo spread, but looks more like dun spread to me. I probably wouldn't call the father DeRoy. Looks like ash-red and not recessive red, and I don't really see the almond there. It is hard to tell though, and more generations need to be traced back to be sure.

Either way, these are all good looking birds. I'd wish we had ones like that where I live!


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## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

Thanks for the additional info.. The parents are a very interesting combination. The deroy father could be carrying the toy stencil genes and the mother appears to be expressing toy stencil in a flight feather and a wee bit in her wing shields. After seeing the mother I'm convinced that your youngster is toy stencil spread indigo. The mom looks like dirty, smokey, indigo blue check. The dirty and smokey factors may be inhibiting the expression of the toy stencil combined with the fact that she may not possess all the genes necessary for complete expression thereof. I think, maybe, you were mislabeling her Ts as grizzle. Those parents appear to have the potential to produce a youngster with Ts, indigo and almond all in the same bird. Wow!


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## Albannai (Jan 21, 2001)

Thank you for reply..

mother looks more indigo spread . dun possibly there because, her mother is black spread, father is (indigo reduced) father might carry dilute.

you are right, Father is ash red. The owner said that he is DeRoy.

(Pencil) could be present but TS is not involved. Under-Grizzle sometime express marks similar to TS.

http://www.gulfup.com/?8U4kA8

http://www.gulfup.com/?JTbBKI


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

Pencil / undergrizzle can both have effects similar to TS. I'd say it is a toss-up between the two really. Undergrizzle is more common in general though, I think...


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