# Selling of Ganus birds



## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

I want to preface this thread by saying that I do not intend any offense against Mike Ganus or anyone who flies his birds. The purpose of this thread is to see what everyone's thoughts on the numerous sales of his birds on online auctions. Mike seems like a good and honest guy, but why are his birds being sold by people? From the advertisements, Mike Ganus speaks the world of his birds. So why are they everywhere?


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

Kal-El said:


> I want to preface this thread by saying that I do not intend any offense against Mike Ganus or anyone who flies his birds. The purpose of this thread is to see what everyone's thoughts on the numerous sales of his birds on online auctions. Mike seems like a good and honest guy, but why are his birds being sold by people? From the advertisements, Mike Ganus speaks the world of his birds. So why are they everywhere?


One reason they are everywhere is because Mike is a master marketer. He knows how to advertise his pigeons and because of his agressive marketing, I doubt if there is a racing fancier in the world that doesn't know his name. Also, along those same lines, others are trying to capitalize on Mike's success. A bird that has Ganus bloodlines comands a higher price, in general, than one that doesn't. It doesn't make the bird a good or bad one, just that it has the recognizeable Ganus name associated with it.

Don't get me wrong. Mr. Ganus has spent probably millions of dollars over the years acquiring the very best racing stock in the world. He has a huge investment in his breeding program and nobody can question his success financially. I don't know that his name alone makes his birds any better than anyone elses, but it certainly makes them more desireable in the marketplace. This being a direct result of his marketing genius. I have to admit that I too have a couple of Ganus bands floating around my loft too. Time will tell if they bear fruit in the breeding loft.

Just my two cents,

Dan


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

Thank you Dan. After reading numerous advertisements of his birds, I've noticed that every sentence ends with two exclaimation marks! Perhaps it's a double-edged sword. There is hype along with success. And in this game, everything is a crap shoot, unless you have an idea of what you're doing.


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## Pegasus (Feb 6, 2007)

*Here are my thoughts on this...*



Kal-El said:


> The purpose of this thread is to see *what everyone's thoughts *on the numerous sales of his birds on online auctions. Mike seems like a good and honest guy, but why are his birds being sold *"by people"*? From the advertisements, Mike Ganus speaks the world of his birds. So why are they everywhere?


Let me put my cards on the table for this one; please and again please do not get offended:

From what I think, there are so many fancier all over and once they want their birds to be sold they have to use a "FAMOUS BREEDER/FANCIER/RACER name on the line so the bird will be sold as quick as it shud be...Some fancier just make up band numbers from way back and for all we know the paper says it all...I'll give a strong example here, again this only an example; I have some 2008 birds that I want to get rid of and not performing the way I want them to be, so I will think of any band numbers write it down on the breeder pedigree sheet, so I'll write down Janssens or De Klak name on it with such and such band #'s dated way back to 1980's and presto! I got myself a perfect pedigree bloodlines...Add more to it is use the name SuperCrack or maybe Cher Ami...Just to sell the bird...How will you know where my birds are from unless you start calling all the organizations all over the world and trace all the band numbers that I put on the paper...So the best bet I can think of is once you trace the band numbers and the original breeders will confirm that, that bird bloodlines is good then I say those birds are one heck of a keeper...It all depends on how the bird/s perform during the race...

Another thoughts I want to add is, I want to buy some birds for the price of the bird, not the price of feed, shots or time you gave to the bird. They are not like car parts that you have to replace. And I have to pay for the newly equip gadget that is on the car...Some say the bird who is a prize winner doesn't mean their kids are also a prize winners...

I don't mean to offend anyone...<------------------


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Mike is a business man who has had great sucess. I know many fliers who have done well with his birds. He aquires the best you can buy, breeds from them and then sells you their youngsters. Is he a great breeder, or master racer? Who knows, but his is a great marketer. GFL bands and pedigrees bring big bucks. You can go on Ipigeon and see where the money is going, Mike Ganus, and anything Sure Bet. It is funny that you will see Imported birds off the greats pulling $200 and Ganus birds $2000. I guess if the market gets that, more power to the marketer. 

As for my sucess with Ganus birds, I have two birds in my breeding loft whos parents are all GFL birds. Personally, I look beyond the GFL birds and to their parents, whom tell me more about the birds. Four are direct Janssen birds, one a world champion, two 4th National Ace pigeons of the NL and one bred a National Ace pigeon of the NL. I think how Mike has benefited all of us is by bringing this blood into the US so we all could benefit from it. I think what matters from this is how he randomly breeds the birds and who we use that blood to create winners. 

What it comes down to is that most of the blood in my loft that is sucessful has come from top notch European birds brought over by US Fanciers. Some of these have developed great families of birds ie: Bob Kinney, Vic Miller, and some have brokered blood and pedigrees like Mike. All have benefited my loft. 

Randy


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

He is a great businessman, marketer, and probably have good birds as well. And we fall with the marketing and buy his "expensive" birds. I, honestly, like his breeders than what he sells.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Kal-El said:


> I want to preface this thread by saying that I do not intend any offense against Mike Ganus or anyone who flies his birds. The purpose of this thread is to see what everyone's thoughts on the numerous sales of his birds on online auctions. Mike seems like a good and honest guy, but why are his birds being sold by people? From the advertisements, Mike Ganus speaks the world of his birds. So why are they everywhere?


 Well.....it goes to reason, if you are the Number #1 seller of racing pigeons in the USA, and you have been in that position for the best part of two decades, then there is going to be a lot of people who own your birds around the country. 

And since he carries the high end birds, with the high end price tags, it also goes to reason that people will breed their best birds to these purchases. I can tell you from personal experience, once you "Invest" in higher priced birds, you have a tendency to give that bird the best mates, and to cheer for the offspring on race day ! My wife sort of gave me a funny look once when on race day a bird came home early and folded his wings and came right in and I said "Dammit" !  She said.."What's wrong" and I said, the "wrong" bird came home 1st.....

And, as is often the case, good birds come from birds with good birds in the family tree, and when you produce a good one from your Ganus bird's, you may have a tendency to refer to this winner as "From my Ganus stock" when the other parent may have been from "Joe Six-Pack".....this often holds true in the following generations....a fancier may still refer to his YB's as from "My Ganus Stock" when in reality, only the great grand father had a GFL band on it's foot. In such cases, the seller may still say something like, "Down from the Best of Mike Ganus".

Well then...at some point, perhaps you have other stock you want to buy, or want to make room for their offspring or grand children, and you want to sell them. What will get people's attention..."Best of Mike Ganus" or "Best of Joe Six-Pack", whom perhaps nobody outside the club or combine ever heard of ?

It's the old story of "Sucess Breeds Sucess". In terms of the marketing and selling of offspring from Imported birds, there is NO one in the USA that has ever come close to the scale or magintude of his selling sucess...None. His sucess has even spawned a whole bunch of "Best of Ganus" wannabe's.......some who may have done nothing much more then open their check books and buy a whole bunch of YB's from Mike, and then set up shop selling discounted "best of" ..."Ganus" birds. 

In the early days, he had the foresite or "smarts" to fly to Europe and buy famous winners directly from the owner's. And then market the offspring from these high end birds directly to fanciers, in a very professional and clever way. 

The game is changing however, because of the Internet and International auction sites such as PIPA. See: http://www.pipa.be/

It is now possible for a famous fancier to sell his famous pigeons on such a site, and to get bidders from around the world to bid on it. This has changed the economics for the merchant who imports pigeons and then sells the offspring. It is now possible to purchase a proven racer, with a beautiful family tree, for what a single unproven YB off a famous racer would have normally sold for. 

But since Mike Ganus was the most sucessful at what he does, you may be hard pressed to find a sucessful loft in the USA that has not been influcenced in some way, by a bird wearing a GFL band on it's foot, somewhere in that fanciers family tree. Because there are very few, if any sucessful fanciers in the USA, that have pigeons where the family tree is comprized of 100% home grown USA pigeons. Somewhere in the back ground, an "Import" was involved, and the odds are good, that Mike Ganus was involved. 

That, is my take on it anyway.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

do you think he has done so well with his own birds because he imported birds?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

I've got two birds here (brother and sister) that are off of GFL birds. Anybody want them??? 
I'm not joking either. They were a gift to us. Don't think I haven't thought about trying to sell them, but I can't bring myself to do that. Just doesn't seem right for some reason. With the pedigrees........I bet I could get at least $100 for each one.


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## UncleBuck (Dec 23, 2008)

Pegasus make a very good point. When I was a kid, I bought some birds from famous pedigree. They, nor their offspring, never performed. After I joined a local pigeon club and started talking about my birds, I found out this guy I bought the birds from was kicked out of the club because he had a habit of embellishing his pedigrees. He would get the newbies (Squabs) to by his birds by giving them a heck of a story as to why his birds were worth so much.
The club had a policy that if you sold birds to anyone, and the birds came with a "Pedigree", you had to sign it. That way, if in the future I bought your birds and later sold them four generations later and used your name, I could produce the original pedigree, proving I actually had some link to your birds. That too could be faked, but at least the club tried to take care of its' members and future potential members. 
One of the best things I ever learned was "Buy the Bird, Not the Pedigree." I learned to watch the bird fly, perform, strut, stand, etc...
I wish more people would get involved in clubs. I am trying to find one here in the west central Missouri area/eastern central Kansas area.
The birds I now have are a bunch of scrub homers. I bought them at auction because I was so mad a the way they were being caged. (More than 100 birds in a small box, setting and standing on each other!) Got them home and did not know what to do with them. I am really looking for some rollers/tumblers...
Anyway, Buy the Bird, Not the Pedigree.


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## Pegasus (Feb 6, 2007)

I do thank you UncleBuck...

1st of all I would like to share some things one of my mentor told me, when he gave 2 young cocks (month old) he told me that I will not going to tell you (yet) where their parents came from but instead of convincing me about the 2 young cocks all he said is "I dare you to release them 20 miles with-out toss training" that's all he said...So I train the birds with my very 1st young hen (3 months old) after 2 months of loft flying with the 2 cocks I called my mentor and notify him that I will toss them 20 miles that day...I went to Jersey and release them there, my hen been there about 3X already, before he gave me the cocks...I release the 1st cock, waited for about 20 minutes then the 2nd cock, another 20 minutes gone by, release the hen...Now remember 20 is a long time for the next bird to be release...I am not really sure what he want me to prove but I'm so eager to know what and where my young cocks are from so I did what he dare me to do...All he said was if the cocks got lost he will replace 4 birds with Gold bands from World of Wings, I never search anything about WOW before until he told me about the gold bands...When I got home three of them are home and seems to be eager to be home...I went to see my mentor and all he said is he don't have the papers to prove to me but all he said is the mother of the cocks is a Hall of Famer and the father is a well known breed good racers...I think he prove me something that I can rely on his words than the papers...

Time goes by I adopt the fact of " it all depends on how you train your birds" strong example is the human athlete; they just don't join the professional sports if they don't have the ability, the team coaches will see what kind of ability that athlete have then he will be qualified to join the team...Hard and long practice will pay-up in the end...

I always compare human athlete to my birds, if I don't train them the right way they can't perform or win the race...


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

I admit I have some GFL birds in my loft, and I admit I bought them BECAUSE the are GFL birds. So far, they are okay.

My best birds thus far, came from white release birds that cost me 35 bucks for one and the seller gave me two more for free. Off spring from the GFL birds and the white racers have been trained together, and the white birds are usually the first home. But not always.

I am re-pairing my GFL birds this year, but am keeping the whites with the mates they have. Because I am satisfied with the whites but not so much with the GFL birds (yet).

Speaking of Mike Ganus buying birds from the best "overseas", I have read that the best flyers overseas do not even care about pedigrees, and only produce pedigrees for U.S. buyers. They care about the pigeon and not the pedigree, and may not (except from memory) know who came from what.

You are right that it would be easy to say AU-09-oo1-ARPU is a direct decscendant of Sure Bet or Blue Miracle, and in reality, it isn't even close. I am sure that it happens all of the time. Then (like me), I purchase a Blue Miracle son from one guy and a blue miracle daughter from another guy, and mate them up, thinking I have the Blue Miracle "line", but in reality, I could have the whats-his-name line crossed with the stray-bird-that-came-to-my-loft-and-the-original-owner-didn't-want-it-back line.

Is that why so many fantastic pedigree birds don't fly so well? Are 85% of the pedigrees "out there" wrong?

I listen to some of the great flyers on Pigeon Talk Radio, and some pair up their birds by eye sign, some by pedigree, and some by the method of, "let them pick their own mates in the loft and if you have nothing but good birds in your loft, you will be just fine."

Pigeon racing reminds me of Texas Hold'em Poker. You can have pocket aces and the other guy can have a 2 and 3 off suit. The flop comes and now he has a full house and you end up with two pair. Happens many times. Their is a matter of luck (and in same cases, just numbers) in pigeon racing. I send four birds to a race and Ganus sends forty birds to a race, and he beats me 95 percent of the time. Well, of course. Or I enter two one loft races a year and he enters fifty. Who is going to be able to say that he has a pair that produced one loft race winners? Him of course.

There is no doubt (as indicated by others here) that Ganus has put a fortune into obtaining what he and others believe, are the best of the best. So, he deserves to recoup his investment by selling the offspring. A GFL band on any old pigeon, is worth big bucks. No matter if the pigeon has ever won a race or not.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

A couple of issues back in the Racing Pigeon Digest,there was a two page add selling allmost 100 GFL banded birds by two lofts...Why do you think these guys were DUMPING the GFL birds ???...Before you go out and spend ANY money,no matter HOW MUCH you spend,it doesn`t mean much about the pedigree,or the seller`s results flying his pigeons...#1...Every bird bred by Ganus,or Bieche,or Dworek,or Koch,or whomever,does not mean they are going to click for you...It stands to reason,it is a little bit of a gamble breeding from birds purchased..They might come from "Big TIME" parents,but they will only breed winners if they are capable of PASSING ON the good genes..Not all pigeons fall into this catagory...#2...You buy YB`s from any of the great names above,BUT you can`t buy the way they handle/train/feed etc...That`s the part you have to EARN on your own by trial & error...I give alot of credit to Ganus`s partners he has overseas...They are GREAT handlers of pigeons,and probally also have pretty good loft location...Add that they have an excellent medication program ongoing,and great pigeons,now you know why they win so much...You take any of those reasons I gave for their results away,and they have results just like you and me...You can only purchase some pigeons from them,and they will probally be good pigeons,but there are NO guarentees on how good the babies they breed will be...Many top pigeon sellers were asked,If you were going to buy pigeons from a great pigeon flyer" what would you buy ??? The answers were allmost the same..Buy the GREAT PIGEONS if you can,if not,buy their brother or sister,if not buy their children...That`s it...No grandchildren of the "PAIR"...NO GREAT grandchildren etc....The farther you get away from the TREE,the less of a chance for sucess with breeding winners from what you purchased !!!...Alamo


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## fastpitch dad (Nov 21, 2007)

what I find interesting is the same seller selling birds at two different auctions.
Auction "A" the birds price will start say $200-$500 and at auction "B" they start
from $25-$100. I guess he puts his best birds on the "A" auction.


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## Guest (Dec 28, 2008)

I will totally agree that names arent everything and just because a bird has a gfl band doesnt mean its got what it takes to win races or even get you into the game of winning ..race results seem to be the only way to find a bird that has a directional influence to get you into the winners circle when it all comes down to it


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

Alamo said:


> A couple of issues back in the Racing Pigeon Digest,there was a two page add selling allmost 100 GFL banded birds by two lofts...Why do you think these guys were DUMPING the GFL birds ???...Before you go out and spend ANY money,no matter HOW MUCH you spend,it doesn`t mean much about the pedigree,or the seller`s results flying his pigeons...#1...Every bird bred by Ganus,or Bieche,or Dworek,or Koch,or whomever,does not mean they are going to click for you...It stands to reason,it is a little bit of a gamble breeding from birds purchased..They might come from "Big TIME" parents,but they will only breed winners if they are capable of PASSING ON the good genes..Not all pigeons fall into this catagory...#2...You buy YB`s from any of the great names above,BUT you can`t buy the way they handle/train/feed etc...That`s the part you have to EARN on your own by trial & error...I give alot of credit to Ganus`s partners he has overseas...They are GREAT handlers of pigeons,and probally also have pretty good loft location...Add that they have an excellent medication program ongoing,and great pigeons,now you know why they win so much...You take any of those reasons I gave for their results away,and they have results just like you and me...You can only purchase some pigeons from them,and they will probally be good pigeons,but there are NO guarentees on how good the babies they breed will be...Many top pigeon sellers were asked,If you were going to buy pigeons from a great pigeon flyer" what would you buy ??? The answers were allmost the same..Buy the GREAT PIGEONS if you can,if not,buy their brother or sister,if not buy their children...That`s it...No grandchildren of the "PAIR"...NO GREAT grandchildren etc....The farther you get away from the TREE,the less of a chance for sucess with breeding winners from what you purchased !!!...Alamo


Very interesting Alamo. I think there is a lot of truth to the part about buying brother or sisters and children off the good birds, but not their grandchildren. Which I want to ask, "What about double grandchildren?"

Scenario A: Full brother/sister mating off the super bird.

Scenario B: Half brother/sister mating off the super bird.

Which one?


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

Kal-El,
If the brother/sister are also EXCELLENT racing pigeons also,there seems to be no reason not to purchase/breed from them...The idea is, if you are going to a world class loft,to purchase pigeons,you try to buy the best available...Grand or Great Grandchildren,are to far away from the tree...Yes,you will pay alot less,but what % do you have to suceed with them...Here is a prime example: Ganus loft...Children from a top pair...$1,500 to $8,000 each....Grandchildren...$400 to $800 each...That tells you the whole story right there..Go on his web site and SEE 4 YOURSELF !!! This happens ALL OVER THE WORLD !!! You GET what you PAY for !!!....Alamo


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

It is even more expensive I think to purchase a real winner. (This may not be ganus though).
http://yengkypigeons.informe.com/dc-hen-4-sale-dt2537.html?highlight=jos+thone


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## AngelsWingsloft (Dec 24, 2008)

*Garbage Or Great Bloodlines U Pick*



Kal-El said:


> I want to preface this thread by saying that I do not intend any offense against Mike Ganus or anyone who flies his birds. The purpose of this thread is to see what everyone's thoughts on the numerous sales of his birds on online auctions. Mike seems like a good and honest guy, but why are his birds being sold by people? From the advertisements, Mike Ganus speaks the world of his birds. So why are they everywhere?


I HAVE 8 OF GANUS BLOODLINES IN MY LOFT AND THEY R GREAT BIRDS U HAVE TO SPEND MONEY TO PLACE IN THE TOP 10, IF NOT U WILL NEVER SEE THE TOP, I HAVE SPEND LOTS OF MONEY ON BIRDS AND WORTH EVERY BUCK ,, $5 BIRDS IS LIKE BUYING NO FRILLS COLA INSTEAD OF PEPSI ,,TRYING TO SAVE MONEY IN THIS SPORT DOES NOT WORK WELL ,, U HAVE TO START WITH GOOD TO GREAT BLOODLINES IF U WANT TO WIN , THATS Y GANUS IS A WINNER HE SPENDS MONEY ,, IF U DONT HAVE MONEY TO BUY THE BIRDS ,U R IN THE WRONG SPORT , IT COST LOTS OF MONEY TO WIN AND RACE ,,, ALL MY BIRDS R FROM CBS, GANUS, PEEMAN & SONS, OAK HAVEN, STOCKHOLM LOFTS ,, TOP BREEDERS AND WINNERS THE NAME SAY'S IT ALL ,, SPEND THE MONEY , CHEAP BIRDS PUT U BEHIND 3 TO 6 YRS BACKWARDS THATS Y PPL LEAVE THIS SPORT BECUZ THEY KEEP BUYING $5 BIRDS THAT IS WORTH NOTHING , U NOT MAKING UR LOFT BETTER JUST WORST WITH GARBAGE AND I THROW THAT AWAY EVERY WEEK LOL ,, THINK ABOUT IT BEFORE U BUY UR NEXT RACERS ,


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2008)

all Im gonna say about your post is post your race results and then we will see if you are even in the game of the winners circle .. buying big name birds doesnt mean you got what it takes to win the races , just means you were a sucker and bought what the big wigs wanted you to buy , its all about the big picture for them and all I want is to hear what you won and with what birds that you purchased from who


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

Sounds like it getting personal in here!


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## Matt D. (May 12, 2007)

AngelsWingsloft said:


> I HAVE 8 OF GANUS BLOODLINES IN MY LOFT AND THEY R GREAT BIRDS U HAVE TO SPEND MONEY TO PLACE IN THE TOP 10, IF NOT U WILL NEVER SEE THE TOP, I HAVE SPEND LOTS OF MONEY ON BIRDS AND WORTH EVERY BUCK ,, $5 BIRDS IS LIKE BUYING NO FRILLS COLA INSTEAD OF PEPSI ,,TRYING TO SAVE MONEY IN THIS SPORT DOES NOT WORK WELL ,, U HAVE TO START WITH GOOD TO GREAT BLOODLINES IF U WANT TO WIN , THATS Y GANUS IS A WINNER HE SPENDS MONEY ,, IF U DONT HAVE MONEY TO BUY THE BIRDS ,U R IN THE WRONG SPORT , IT COST LOTS OF MONEY TO WIN AND RACE ,,, ALL MY BIRDS R FROM CBS, GANUS, PEEMAN & SONS, OAK HAVEN, STOCKHOLM LOFTS ,, TOP BREEDERS AND WINNERS THE NAME SAY'S IT ALL ,, SPEND THE MONEY , CHEAP BIRDS PUT U BEHIND 3 TO 6 YRS BACKWARDS THATS Y PPL LEAVE THIS SPORT BECUZ THEY KEEP BUYING $5 BIRDS THAT IS WORTH NOTHING , U NOT MAKING UR LOFT BETTER JUST WORST WITH GARBAGE AND I THROW THAT AWAY EVERY WEEK LOL ,, THINK ABOUT IT BEFORE U BUY UR NEXT RACERS ,


I agree with Lokotaloft.... You're wrong. If you plan on buying your way to the top of the race sheet, *You*'re in the wrong sport. I've never paid more than 130 dollars on a bird. I own no birds from ganus (Like to keep it that way,) or mardis. Oak Haven and Peeman and Sons was the same breeding loft. The big names have some good birds. You're just wrong when you say that You have to pay for the top. I know a lot of people that have that same theory, and They suck. I don't have a really expensive loft or really expensive birds. But I Had a great season... I didn't spend a hundred thousand dollars to get there either. I've had more luck with birds I've traded people for or bred with other people in a partnership, than I've ever seen anyone have from the birds they paid the big bucks for. 

Sorry, You're post just really rubbed me wrong. There is nothing wrong with buying expensive birds, but You cant say its the only way to go. It isn't and You're wrong.


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2008)

its nothing personal about wanting to know the info on birds that people are trying to sell ..its called knowing about your investments


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I was given birds who bred a lot of good ones in the previous loft. So because I didn't pay what they were worth, and instead got them free, does that mean they aren't any good?  I would pay more for a good bird than a good pedigree. And most of what I've seen that are supposedly good, are expensive because of what their relatives did, not what they did.


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## warpaint (Dec 10, 2008)

I think when it comes down to it, it just depends on the flyer. Anyone could buy a baby from topnotch stuff and or produce top stuff. But when it comes down to it, the trainer is what makes the most impact. I have seen flyers complain about their birds and will give the bird away to their friends who in turn have bred and flown champions. All it is when you buy good birds is that you're just trying to buy the blood and hope that you do get what hits.


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## Pegasus (Feb 6, 2007)

LokotaLoft said:


> *buying big name birds doesnt mean you got what it takes to win the races , just means you were a sucker* and bought what the big wigs wanted you to buy , its all about the big picture for them and all I want is to hear what you won and with what birds that you purchased from who


------------->Do I need to say more ?


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## Pegasus (Feb 6, 2007)

AngelsWingsloft said:


> I HAVE 8 OF GANUS BLOODLINES IN MY LOFT AND THEY R GREAT BIRDS U HAVE TO SPEND MONEY TO PLACE IN THE TOP 10, IF NOT U WILL NEVER SEE THE TOP, I HAVE SPEND LOTS OF MONEY ON BIRDS AND WORTH EVERY BUCK ,, $5 BIRDS IS LIKE BUYING NO FRILLS COLA INSTEAD OF PEPSI ,,TRYING TO SAVE MONEY IN THIS SPORT DOES NOT WORK WELL ,, U HAVE TO START WITH GOOD TO GREAT BLOODLINES IF U WANT TO WIN , THATS Y GANUS IS A WINNER HE SPENDS MONEY ,, IF U DONT HAVE MONEY TO BUY THE BIRDS ,U R IN THE WRONG SPORT , IT COST LOTS OF MONEY TO WIN AND RACE ,,, ALL MY BIRDS R FROM CBS, GANUS, PEEMAN & SONS, OAK HAVEN, STOCKHOLM LOFTS ,, TOP BREEDERS AND WINNERS THE NAME SAY'S IT ALL ,, SPEND THE MONEY , CHEAP BIRDS PUT U BEHIND 3 TO 6 YRS BACKWARDS THATS Y PPL LEAVE THIS SPORT BECUZ THEY KEEP BUYING $5 BIRDS THAT IS WORTH NOTHING , U NOT MAKING UR LOFT BETTER JUST WORST WITH GARBAGE AND I THROW THAT AWAY EVERY WEEK LOL ,, THINK ABOUT IT BEFORE U BUY UR NEXT RACERS ,


I won't say anything like this, I know JPM in my area, they pretty much as the same level as Ganus, it all depends on how you train a bird...

Michael Phelps is the fastest swimmer in the world as we know...But he came not from the bloodlines of fastest swimmer. It all depends on how he was train and how much limit he can do to do in sports, I can say he use to be one of those (garbage) when he is starting but now he is on top...Did he came from the family of great fastest swimmer?, I highly doubt it...The key in every sports: train them well, in great shape and plenty of rest and you will win...If you toss them in the same miles but different spot, every single time, eventually they will familiarized the area, the perimeter, the distance, so that's the case here, once they know and they've been there, it will be easy for them to take on the sky and head to the loft...I know that's always be the case...Not where the bird seller...Those birds (China/Taiwan/Japan) that was on YouTube, they released them in the middle of the ocean, I think more than 500miles, none of them is from Ganus, so why they have a winner? why they made it to the loft? I think it all depends on how they (Asian Fanciers) train them...They went to the extreme distance...Now thats what I call power of wings and strong stamina...From what I hear, one of the fancier in Asia, he give his birds some ginseng drink (orally) I'm not sure how much oz. but he say it help boost the system and make his bird home from any distance he take his birds...

Some of us can't afford to buy some expensive bird/s but that doesn't mean if it's not expensive is GARBAGE...I won't give an advice to a beginner like that...That is why some of the people who want to start is backing-off because they see the amount of the bird and change their mind...Give the advice that can motivate them not to make them think twice...Not everbody is rich like Terry Bradshaw, Mike Tyson or Queen Elizabeth, they can afford more than $1000/bird...


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## fastpitch dad (Nov 21, 2007)

Pegasus said:


> ...Not everbody is rich like Terry Bradshaw, Mike Tyson or Queen Elizabeth, they can afford more than $1000/bird...


Does Terry Bradshaw have pigeons.


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## Pegasus (Feb 6, 2007)

fastpitch dad said:


> Does Terry Bradshaw have pigeons.


Yes...

Here's the site:

http://pigeonracing.homestead.com/FAMOUS_Pigeon_Keepers.html


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## fastpitch dad (Nov 21, 2007)

Interesting I'll check that out........Thanks


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

If only 10% are champion birds, then that means the rest are just average or junk. For me the price I'll will pay is proportional to how many the bird have won. Birds that already won may obviously be expensive.


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

Again, this thread is not meant to be abrasive or anything like that. I'm merely asking what everyone's views on Ganus birds because you hear so much about them. I myself have never purchased birds from Ganus, but I guess you can call this post... research?!


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## TipplerBeni (Sep 30, 2007)

I noticed when searching through the loft pages people LOVE to mention GFL birds. I've bummed into acouple that mentioned one loft races that the Average joe won and beat GFL birds and other big names. All it comes down to is CHANCE and LUCK.IMO. If you buy the HYPED UP ped birds theres a chance you might win and if your LUCKY you might come in on TOP10%. BUT we also have other varibles to throw in besides buying top notch birds. Care, Training, Loft set up. It also helps to win if your club size is small. I have 5-8 lofts in my club. my 25dollar birds will hang with any of those guys getting birds from big name. I dont know where half my birds come from. But a good home,feed and training will have them looking like 1 million bucks in my eyes.


MY MOTTO IS 
A PEDIGREE DOESNT MAKE THE BIRD THE BIRD MAKES THE PEDIGREE


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

I think the Chicago winter auction puts this in perspective. There are some good birds in this auction from some formidable fliers. There are also Ganus birds in this auction. The Ganus birds start at $500 the other birds start at $100. If you look at some pedigrees of some of the other fliers you see direct birds off Ganus stock, so second generation off of the worlds best. If you study some of the Ganus pedigrees there is birds that are also second generation. 

I think what it comes down to is that most people are idiots. When probably the best birds in this auction are Freddie Rivera Beckarts which have no bids so far. So what it comes down to is that people will spend 5 times as much money on the same pedigree it the parents have GFL bands as opposed to someone else who has bred the birds. I guess the same logic is in those who buy a Big Bertha drive as opposed to something from Golf Smith that is made in the same foundry using the same materials. 

We need to face it GFL is a brand name.

www.ipigeon.com

Randy


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2009)

what it all comes down to is that we know that ganus does have good birds in general being that he has bought the best of the best and brought them over to america for umpteen thousands in his quest .. but with that said if you look at all the one loft races that they are entered into how many of them is he actually winning ? As Warren Smith once said if his birds were better then the rest why hasnt he taken over every race he has his birds entered into over the years Just like Randy said also its a brand name now put on birds just to make money and so far its worked very well


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

I will state this again. I have spent rather large sums of money on birds, and I also have been given birds or bought birds for small sums of money. So far, my best birds home have been the small priced or free birds. But........every so often, the expensive birds shine also.

Is's a crap shoot. All things being equal though, I believe that pedigrees do count for something. But I suspect many pedigrees of being fudged or mistaken. It is amazing what people will do for the almighty dollar.


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## Lovelace (Jan 10, 2008)

I have to say one thing, this is my second year flying. we have one guy in our club that wins a lot of races with GFL birds, all the birds in my loft have been giving to me by club members, my second year I trained very hard and the results were grate, we had about two first place wins, one are two seconds places, a third in the club & combine.
I think health, good training, and a Love for there home can bet any bird. just my thoughts.


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## Pegasus (Feb 6, 2007)

Pretty much like this, what is the best brand for basketball, for running or for any other sports, I don't think its only NIKE is the best brand right? There are so many names out there. Nike is not the only name brand that can do the best in any sports...Or it all comes down on how you wear it and how you perform in the particular sports...


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

LOL, Randy! 
$100+Ganus name+Ganus printed pedigree paper= $500


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

Not to be devil's advocate here, but if his birds were not successful, he would have been out of business long ago. I guess it is the eternal capitalist in me but if he can get the bucks for his birds and people keep comming back to him because they have seen success, more power to him. Not to say that there are not birds out there every bit as good or better, but you can't knock the guy for earning an honest living. It is sort of like Mark Texiera getting 180 Million from the Yankees, it sure isn't his fault that they want to pay him that kind of money. I just wish I could hit a ball as well as he does! 

Dan


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Do agree Learning

As for the pedigree issue, I have found some discrepencies in a few pedigrees that have come from Ganus. The are not totally wrong, but when when a no name bird is in the pedigree, the name of a famous bird in the line or the name of the line will take the place. I have done much research of my Ganus Pedigrees and this seems to be the case. I can give you examples if you would like. I think this should be pointed out. I have a Janssen bird that I have tracked about 16 generations back and many of the names are wrong. A few may just be in translation, but others are clearly wrond. Also my Ikon grandson's pedigree has a few discrepencies. Probably the best example is that Late Tom is on the pedigree on the Sootjens side of one of the birds. He does not apear for about three generations down the line. 

If you want to check yours, just do a google on the name and number. Many you will not find match.

Keep a note that it does not change the abilities of the birds or their offspring, just the $ amount they bring. 

Randy


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

learning said:


> Not to be devil's advocate here, but if his birds were not successful, he would have been out of business long ago. I guess it is the eternal capitalist in me but if he can get the bucks for his birds and people keep comming back to him because they have seen success, more power to him. Not to say that there are not birds out there every bit as good or better, but you can't knock the guy for earning an honest living. It is sort of like Mark Texiera getting 180 Million from the Yankees, it sure isn't his fault that they want to pay him that kind of money. I just wish I could hit a ball as well as he does!
> 
> Dan


Hello Dan,

You make some very valid points, as others have in these posts. I don't think anyone who has taken the basic introductory Marketing 101 college course can argue against the fact, that Mike Ganus has successfully created a "Name Brand" for himself. Now we can discuss what that really means by looking at other very successful "brands".

Take for instance a very simple commodity product....flavored carbonated sugar water (soft drink, soda, pop, etc.). It is very simple to produce, and in blind taste tests, many people are unable to distinguish their favorite brand from many others. At one time, there were hundreds, if not thousands of producers of this product just here in the USA. Never know how many there may have been over the last hundred years in the whole world. 

Now, over the last 100 + years one company COCA COLA Company immerged as the number # 1 brand in the whole world, (first sales were in 1886) not only in terms of product sold, but in terms of the most valuable "Brand Name". With over 90,000 employees in over 200 countries, this is a text book case of what a successful brand can do for even the most basic and simple products. 

Now, apply that to the merchandising of pigeons, and what you have in the name of "Ganus" is a brand name of monumental proportions. What does that mean among other things, if Mike purchases a bird from a fancier in Europe and produces offspring and then bands them...they automatically become "Ganus" birds, and a certain value is attached to them simply because of his bands.

Why do I have a form of professional envy about this ? Because, I can and have beat the GFL banded birds in every professional race I have ever entered up to this point, and yet after numerous generations of Smith birds banded to Smith birds....many people still look for that "brand name" generations back in the pedigrees. If a Janssen or a Ludo, or a Ganus bird can be found, then it is... in their minds...a "Janssen" a "Ludo" or a "Ganus". I recently had a phone call from a fancier making inquires to purchase some foundation stock for his loft. As is often the case with fanciers, he was looking for "pure" Janssen, Ludo, Ganus, etc. 

As far as the accuracy of Pedigrees from Ganus or anyone else with birds from Europe, you have to keep in mind that the whole idea of keeping pedigrees is a relatively new concept in Europe. The only reason why the practice started was because American buyers were willing to pay much more when a bird had that piece of paper. And that concept has not escaped some dishonest fanciers in the USA who will sell you a bird with a totally fabricated piece of paper. I can track some of my birds back 16 generations, based on information provided by Ludo Claessen. But, to tell you the truth, if there was an error in the 10th generation, it really does not matter to me, as I view the majority of ancestral history as an intellectual curiosity. 

At any rate, with few exceptions, all of my original foundation stock was from Mike Ganus, since at the time, he owned the largest and best collection of direct Ludo's in the USA. And he still owns the largest and best collection of Champion racers in the USA, and I don't see that changing in my life time. Now the real $1,000,000 question, what is the best way to build a team of foundation breeders ? Purchase unproven YB's from the crossing of two Champion birds, with different ancestry....or purchase related birds with some sort of race history, from a "Family"...that have numerous race Champions in the family tree ?


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*Why Do Ganus Birds Sell*

* Here is the GANUS secret 1 GOOD BIRDS, 2MARKETS WELL, 3. HE ADVERTISES WELL , AND 4 HE HAS THE BEST GRAPHIC ARTIST ON HIS STAFF DAN MILNER,THAT IS THE BOTTOM LINE* GEORGE


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