# Thoughts on breeding early



## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

What are your thoughts on breeding early? 

If you are pro, why so?

If you are con, why so? 

I'm curious to get different takes from different people.


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## sport14692 (Jan 3, 2011)

What do you consider breeding early?


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## rpalmer (Mar 10, 2011)

I will let my birds hatch in April. Why? This is recommended by every strain maker who either wrote a book on pigeons or was written about them. And that is good enough for me. BOP aside.


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## sport14692 (Jan 3, 2011)

I live in South Louisiana and I do not follow the Northern Breeding schedule. I breed from October until May. I separate them in the Summer Months because it is way too hot down here. I have had good success with this schedule.


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## sport14692 (Jan 3, 2011)

Everyone has their own opinion on whats the best breeding time but I found the one I listed above to work best for me due to location


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## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

I raced YB's this year that were born from January to May. My best were born in Jan and Feb. and went to 300 miles. I can't really say that early is better other than the birds were much more mature and I felt like they were more capable of going the longer distance. I've got 9 pair on eggs right now.....


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

Most northern lofts start Feb 14th...Some lofts WANT older YB`s,so they would start Dec/Jan....I know some OLD guys that start late March or early Apr/May...These guys still win money in October...Why ?? VG birds,and they are only on the 7th flight...Which is not harmfull for flying 300+ miles in the Futurities....The age is not a handicap for these birds at all....A buddy of mine took 1st to 5th Auction race with May hatched YB`s...The Auction race was in September !!!!The birds were only 4 months old...So all you early breeders don`t have that much of an advantage at all....The 4 month old birds are full of energy & life...Some of the Dec/Jan bred birds get tired out,and get stale from all the training etc...Alamo


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## NayNay (Mar 16, 2011)

rpalmer said:


> I will let my birds hatch in April. Why? This is recommended by every strain maker who either wrote a book on pigeons or was written about them. And that is good enough for me. BOP aside.


How could this possibly be true for all locations? Even just in the US there are massive weather, race schedule, and predator considerations that influence success with one approach or another.


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## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

I think depending on your location (weather/climate) and what ever purpose you will be breeding for in the first place makes all the difference. Northern lofts may wait till it gets above freezing to breed while southern lofts may breed before Spring/Summer when it gets way too hot. 

Personally, I only breed from February to August. The last August babies fly till the end of November. After that, everyone's on lock down


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

sport14692 said:


> What do you consider breeding early?


Breeding early is putting your pairs in late November and timing it so that you can band the youngsters when you get your bands on the first of the year.

Breeding later is putting your birds together after January and having youngsters weaned by April.


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

I moved to Florida from Michigan. Even in Michigan I started breeding early December. Some of my best young came from the first round or two. 

This year because of problems with the county over my lofts and to many work hours my birds are not together yet. My Christmas present to them is going to be getting their mates this weekend.

It is all really just personal prefrance. Some do not want to deal with breeding in the cold and some have not figured out how to settle older birds. I say do what feels right for you.


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## SouthTown Racers (Jan 14, 2009)

ace in the hole said:


> I moved to Florida from Michigan. Even in Michigan I started breeding early December. Some of my best young came from the first round or two.
> 
> This year because of problems with the county over my lofts and to many work hours my birds are not together yet. My Christmas present to them is going to be getting their mates this weekend.
> 
> It is all really just personal prefrance. Some do not want to deal with breeding in the cold and some have not figured out how to settle older birds. I say do what feels right for you.


What do you mean by "settling older birds"? Do you keep the early bred birds locked up until spring?


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## Dadona (Jan 17, 2011)

*Early Breeding*

Hi :
Well this is a subject that all Fanciers seem to have is different times in breeding their new youngsters. I start setting up mating notations in last week of December. My 6 breeding pairs are paired and in nest boxes until I feel they work well together or they don't. I use a system that works for me in which my birds seem to do well. I also close all vents and windows down at night all but my ridge vent, also if I feel that it will be very cold that night I will give them some heat in the loft that night just for the breeders. I also reopen all vents and windows the next day. But, I hope everyone understands that this is my way and you have to find what works for you and your birds. Everyone lives in different places with different weather conditions in winter time and your interaction with your birds has alot of play on your breeding. Well anyway that is how I start my breeding season off.


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## g-pigeon (Aug 24, 2010)

My birds are on eggs.they are scheduled to hatch around January first.I like having the young birds around. I am not racing olds birds this year.if I was I may have waited till February.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Kal-El said:


> What are your thoughts on breeding early?
> 
> If you are pro, why so?
> 
> ...


 This year I put my birds together on Dec 16th so I could have some Christmas eggs.  The down side to this "earlier" breeding, is of course when I go to leave them out it will be prime hawk time, but some manage to out smart Mister Cooper. Sometimes these hawk smart birds turn out to be race winners, just like my winner Mister Cooper did in 2004. 

I have bred earlier then this and much later, and some times in between. Any way I look at it, it still is a roll of the genetic dice, good and poor birds can be produced regardless if one starts early or late. What is important to me, is that the breeders are "ready" and in super health. I will end up with babies in January, Febuary, March and into April, some will be good, some will be not so good, and some will get lost, and some will be winners. I will attempt to breed three rounds and then that will be it until 2013.


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

SouthTown Racers said:


> What do you mean by "settling older birds"? Do you keep the early bred birds locked up until spring?


Yes I do.

In 2008 I settled 76 birds in late April that were hatched from December to May without a single loss. Those birds won 1/2 of the races that year. Of the 28 birds I settled and trained out last year some were over three months old (without a loss).


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## bhymer (Jan 8, 2008)

Did you do anything different to settle them????


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPReyZgHzWY


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

bhymer said:


> Did you do anything different to settle them????
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPReyZgHzWY


Yes, I am short on time today but I will post about this Tomorrow.


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## Granny Smith (Jul 16, 2011)

*Valentines Day*



Alamo said:


> Most northern lofts start Feb 14th......Alamo


Valentines Day, February 14th is the date that a lot of the old timers have recommended to me. This date just reduces the chances of having real cold weather when the birds a very young.


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## SouthTown Racers (Jan 14, 2009)

ace in the hole said:


> Yes, I am short on time today but I will post about this Tomorrow.


I would love to talk to you about this topic.


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## birdman21 (Nov 30, 2011)

I don't think breeding early has anything to do with genetics, but with the maturity of the yb and how far moulted they are by the time the races start. I have bred late in the past and by the time the the first few yb races start, u can see the difference in maturity in the birds. The biggest problem I have with breeding early here in the northeast is, by the time my yb's r ready to loft fly in feb, hawks are still a HUGE problem!


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## brown7683 (May 9, 2011)

SouthTown Racers said:


> I would love to talk to you about this topic.


I would love to hear more on this also.


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

Once the birds go through the moult, they will start to act like old birds. It's harder to get them to exercise and they're motivated by sex, not hunger. I just feel birds that are four months old do the best because they're not too mature, yet still love to fly.


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## SouthTown Racers (Jan 14, 2009)

Kal-El said:


> Once the birds go through the moult, they will start to act like old birds. It's harder to get them to exercise and they're motivated by sex, not hunger. I just feel birds that are four months old do the best because they're not too mature, yet still love to fly.


I have never had any problems getting older ybs to exercise. My teams have always loft flown for at least an hour as long as it isnt too hot. If I ever run into the problem of them not wanting to loft fly, I will just take them down the road a couple times a week. I want to breed early because I want to play with the lights just a little bit...nothing too crazy. I want the birds to be through the body molt by race season, and I want them sexually motivated. My biggest problem is the dang coopers hawks, they are everywhere, I mean everywhere!!! I want to breed now (I just paired up a week ago), but I dont want to let them out until April. Can this be done without the birds turning into dummies and getting lost??


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

SouthTown Racers said:


> I have never had any problems getting older ybs to exercise. My teams have always loft flown for at least an hour as long as it isnt too hot. If I ever run into the problem of them not wanting to loft fly, I will just take them down the road a couple times a week. I want to breed early because I want to play with the lights just a little bit...nothing too crazy. I want the birds to be through the body molt by race season, and I want them sexually motivated. My biggest problem is the dang coopers hawks, they are everywhere, I mean everywhere!!! I want to breed now (I just paired up a week ago), but I dont want to let them out until April. Can this be done without the birds turning into dummies and getting lost??


I guess this can somewhat be accomplished if you leave them out in a settling cage every day that the weather is good. And on the question of if the weather is good, that's another topic in itself. If it's not too snowy, windy, or even cold, the birds would do fine. Now I'm referring to my neck of the woods (Minnesota), where we get a lot of snow. So breeding for me has been difficult, but I've done it before. It's just that there are too many obstacles, so I'd rather wait until February or even March.


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## rpalmer (Mar 10, 2011)

NayNay said:


> How could this possibly be true for all locations? Even just in the US there are massive weather, race schedule, and predator considerations that influence success with one approach or another.


It seems that the strain makers, that I have read in book and on line all have a cold winter. I am not aware of any in the milder climates. But point noted.


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

Do any of you think the difference how the birds percieve their surroudings in appearance when there is snow on the ground versus when there is no snow on the ground?


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## bhymer (Jan 8, 2008)

Just a side note. Does it make a difference if the parents raise the youngsters or if foster parents raise them. Guess what I'm asking is , do they learn anything from their parents in the nest ???????


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

I don't think they learn anything different. I have one pair of foster I calll "The Loving Couple." They weren't the best race birds, but have shown to be the best foster parents. They never let a youngster die, always feeding and keeping them warm. They're my designated foster pair for my best birds.


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## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

Thought it was fun to watch my YB's from this year discover snow. Hadn't had them out for a few days because of the weather after our first measurable snow and when I did it was like kids playing in the snow. The oldest had seen snow last year but not sure they remembered.


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

SouthTown Racers said:


> I would love to talk to you about this topic.


I sent you a PM with my phone # if you want to talk about this.


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

bhymer said:


> Did you do anything different to settle them????
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPReyZgHzWY


From the day the young birds are put into the young bird loft I ring a cow bell every time they are fed. I feed twice a day untill one weeks before I start trap training. I catch and crate the birds in the dark early morning and they sit in the loft in the crates untill it is time to feed. This also helps get them use to the crates. I let them see me put the food down and then take the crates out side. As I release them from the crates into the settling cage I ring the cow bell. The first few times the bobs are up so they get use to going in to feed before they have to trap through the bobs. Once I feel they are 100% trap trained I remove the settling cage and just open the side of the crate on the landing board as I ring the bell and watch them run accross the landing board and trap to eat. I start them a foot from the loft and move them a little farther away each day. I now use a 4' X 4' landing board painted white with a big floresant orange X painted on it. So before they have to even fly the are running four foot accross the landing board to trap. It also is easy for them to see from the air and easy for them to land on when I am releasing a crate of birds at a time. At this time they are being fed just a little short so they hury in and all but fight for their food. They are only fed once a day ( in the morning ) all through the season. They are only fed after trapping unless it is just raining to hard to get them out. Even then they are crated early morning and released from the crates after they see me put the food down and the bell is rung as I open the crates. After they have ran accross the full landing board twice I release them a foot away from the board, then two feet, four feet, eight feet and so on. I may go twenty to fourty feet before the first birds start landing on the roof of the loft. When they do start going into the air I ring the bell every little bit untill they all have landed. If I see one or more starting to get to far out I'll ring the bell long and hard and it usualy turns them back. I just keep moving back untill all birds hit the air and circle the loft. 

Last year the first day any of my young hit the air I had a hawk hit three times hitting two birds and chasing all but a few out of sight. I kept ringing the bell loud and hard from the roof of the loft every half hour or so and each time more birds came in. By about 4:00 I had all 28 birds back in the loft.


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

In 2008 I did use blue paintes masking tape to tape together flights 8,9 and 10 on the birds that were more than two months old. It did not hurt the feathers at all but it slowed them down until they were settled


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## bhymer (Jan 8, 2008)

I remember seeing this before.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvEpRoj-2dg


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