# Sick Pij



## KIPPY (Dec 18, 2003)

I have a sick pij and noticed his rump was getting a little plugged up. I cleaned the pij and was wondering is there's an easier way or proper way to do this? Your suppose to do this, right?
I find it very awkward because I and the pij don't feel comfortable putting him on his back so I can see what I am doing. So I just got a warm wet cloth and got what I could see.
Bare with me, but I after I got through cleaning him up I noticed that I had more dropping then I started out with. So I'm thinking that the old dropping was preventing the next dropping from releasing. Is there anything that I can give him so this does not happen again?


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Hi Kim,

I did a lot of searching among old posts and couldn't find anything that specifically addressed this problem, besides comments that that an impacted vent is dangerous and should be cleared....I found this among an old post of Fred's "How to take care of a pigeon in trouble."

*Look at the cloacal area. See if it is herniated. That is called a prolapsed cloaca and if you can't afford the surgery to repair it, the bird has to be put down. Look for canker in that area. Sometimes canker bypasses the mouth and crop and sets up shop in that area. Look to see that droppings are not clogging the cloaca. If that is allowed to remain, the backup will cause toxins to kill the bird. That comes from a number of sources; bad hygiene, kidney problems or digestive system problems. 
Look at the oil gland. Is it clogged?*

Just thought it may give you something to go on as you said the pij is not well....Hopefully someone who knows what they are talking about will be on soon to help you.....Hope pij is better soon.

Linda


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Kim,

Yes, if the vent was clogged you just prevented a major problem. It's an easy thing to miss but one of the most important to see .. clogged vent=major problem.

I soak mine in warm water with all the parts in their normal position and just reach under and "do the deed". Yes, I might need to pick the bird up and see if I got it all, but usually you can feel with your fingers ..

Terry


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## KIPPY (Dec 18, 2003)

I checked the pijs mouth and it looks like he has canker. I guess it's just as important to check the pijs rump but it's something I just don't think about. The pijs tail was sticking up which looked odd to me that's why I checked. Now it will be the second spot to check on the list. If there are toxins in his systems what can I do?
It sounds to me that this pij does not have a chance after reading Freds old post.
*I found this among an old post of Fred's "How to take care of a pigeon in trouble."* 
Besides soaking in warm water and cleaning the Pij, is there anything else I can do? Does he need anti biotics or is there something to add to the food that will help the stool pass easier? 
Linda, Thanks for searching that out. I wasn't sure how to word that search.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Kippy, 

You may wish to clip some of the feathers around the vent area as well. If there is a problem and the bird is getting "bunged" up, the clipping will help aid in them not sticking so much and for easier soaking of the bird.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Kim,



> It sounds to me that this pij does not have a chance after reading Freds old post.


LOL, KIM! A pasted vent is in itself only a problem if it is not cleaned. Unfortunately pigeons can't clean that area themselves which is why it can prove to be fatal. 

Fred's quote is from a post about how to examine a pigeon. The prolapsed cloaca, blocked oil glands and canker are three other problems that you might find when you examine that area, not necessarily related to the pasted vent or to each other. The prolapsed cloaca is a big problem, the canker not so bad...I have never come accross a blocked oil gland but I suspect that would be a condition that can be corrected quite easily.

However, if the pigeon has canker then it is very likely that it has canker in the cloaca which could be narrowing the vent exit and causing the pasting. You will probably be able to feel a firm lump just above the cloaca.

Treat the canker aggressively. Metronidazole and Carnidazole (Spartrix) for the first 3 days, then continue with the metronidazole for another 7 days. After a few days you will probably find that the nodule in the cloacal region has localised and can be squeezed gently out of the cloaca. 

When Blackie came to me with PMV I knew nothing about pigeons and it is only by goood luck that I realised she was prone to getting her vent plugged. I think that it was because the passage was narrow (her throat was also too narrrow to swallow peas...I never found out why). I just washed her in the sink with warm water several times a day until the problem passed. She is 4 and a half years old now and has had no recurrence.

If you follow Brad's advice the area will be easier to clean but the poop might also be less likely to become trapped and form a plug...even my little dog's bottom can become plugged if the fur around it isn't kept well trimmed! Fortunately the condition is so much easier to spot in dogs.

Cynthia


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Hi Kim,

I'm really sorry if that paragraph from Fred's post misled you into thinking that your sick pij was done for.....I posted it for you so you would see that it was a good thing that you cleaned and cleared the vent area....I would think if the vent had remained blocked, ~then~ there might have been a fatal problem. Also, since the pij was not well, I thought that some of the illnesses Fred mentioned might give you a heads up as to what might have caused the pasted vent in the first place.
Again, sorry if I alarmed you.....hope pij is doing much better today.

Linda


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## KIPPY (Dec 18, 2003)

I have not had any problems with the "vent opening" since then. 
The pij is still hanging in there I have given him 3 days of spartrix, that's what I have. His stool is white even tho he is eating like a pig. He stuffs his face with seed and it gets stuck in his throat from the mucus or maybe canker in his throat. I honestly can't see what is going on at the moment all I see is seed. I took the seed away from him and I know he will be shaking what he has in his beak out. Not sure how much is actually getting into his system but my utility room is a mess. Is there something else I can give him? Like liquified puppy chow? I do also have some baby food. I'm kinda surprised this guy is hanging on, between him being sick and his eating technique he looks like crap. 
Not sure what to do.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Kim,

The puppy chow is worth a try though the bird may have difficulty getting this down too if he's having problems with the seed. Is the crop full at all after he has made his attempt to eat? If not, perhaps you could syringe or tube feed him a bit. 

Terry


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Kim, if you want to bring him by, maybe between the two of us we can get a good look down his throat. I certainly don't mind checking him out, I'm just not boarding any right now. Let me know.

Cindy


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Kim,

Tubing a pigeon with canker can be dangerous as it can start a fatal bleed if you knock a nodule. That has happened to me when a pigeon I was tubing suddenly struggled.

When I got my last pigeon with canker I gave it a liquid invalid food for birds that we get inthe UK called Poly Plus. I fed it by placing a single drop at a time just inside the beak so that it would find its own way to whatever opening there was. It took ages to get each feed in but carried it through the critical few days during which it couldn't get seed down.

Have you tried giving metronidazole at the same time as Spartrix? 

Cynthia


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

cyro51 said:


> When I got my last pigeon with canker I gave it a liquid invalid food for birds that we get inthe UK called Poly Plus. I fed it by placing a single drop at a time just inside the beak so that it would find its own way to whatever opening there was. It took ages to get each feed in but carried it through the critical few days during which it couldn't get seed down.


What a great idea Cynthia. I'm wondering if perhaps Kaytee Exact formula could be used as well in conjunction with the balloon method to feed this bird? Another alternative for a more liquid based food perhaps could be ground up pigeon pellets in water. Mary did this during the latter stages of hand feeding my young pigeons. She ground up the pigeon pellets in a coffee grinder. (Just make sure to remove all traces of coffee from the grinder if you do this as coffee is toxic to pigeons)


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## KIPPY (Dec 18, 2003)

You don't have to worry about me tube feeding, I can't do it. I tried to get some baby chicken food down him but he has a lot of mucas going on. I have been watching this pij eat seed and I know some seed is getting down there but it is just not comming out where it should be. I don't know what is going on. All I have is Spartrix, Amox and Sulmet. This guy is alert and not fluffed up but I have seen that before and then there dead the next day so I have no clue what is going on inside him.
Freds post may have something there that is going on with this pij. I never heard of Poly Plus but will look for it a Petsmart/Petco for future pij problems. I was going to pick up some Exact baby bird formula but after reading the directions and the sour crop issue it kinda freaked me out.
Why these guys show up at my back door, I don't know. It is so frustrating.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Kim,

The canker is very probably blocking or at least narrowing the exit from the crop so seeds that go in can’t proceed through the digestive system. This is why canker is so often suspected in cases of sour crop.

A liquid diet would have a better chance of progressing.

Cynthia


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

*My apologies Kim*

I just reread my last post & can see where my statement:
_"I'm just not boarding any right now." _ 
could possibly be misinterpreted.

I wasn't, by any means, referring that you would bring the pigeon over & just drop him off. That statement was in reference to my own medical issues I'm dealing with at the present time. 
I just wanted to clarify that. Sorry. 

*"Why these guys show up at my back door, I don't know. It is so frustrating."*
Yes, it can be frustrating at times. You are truly a Godsend to these babies though.  

Cindy


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## KIPPY (Dec 18, 2003)

Cindy,
No need to apologies. I'm was so frustrated about this pij it did not even phase me I guess. 

The pij is still hanging in there. Is that *Exact baby bird formula * a good idea?
I looked for the Poly Plus at PetCo and they don't carry it. I don't have a coffee grinder. I tried the baby food but that did not seem to work out too well. Was not sure about how much water to add and if I add too much it might be useless.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

*I looked for the Poly Plus at PetCo and they don't carry it*
Hi Kim,
I believe the Poly Plus is only in the UK. I may be mistaken though.

*I tried the baby food but that did not seem to work out too well. Was not sure about how much water to add and if I add too much it might be useless*.
When I dilute food for the birds, I add just a bit of water, mix, then add a bit more until I have the consistency that will go through an eye dropper, syringe, etc., easily. 

*Is that Exact baby bird formula a good idea?*
At this point I don't see where it will hurt. 
Hopefully those with more experience in this area will be along to assist.

I'm so sorry you are having such a time with this little one.  

Cindy


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Kim and Cindy (our dynamic duo in Arizona),

Could you two lovely ladies maybe get together to have a look at this bird? I know that for me it is often so nice to just have someone else to take a look and see what they think. I am very grateful to my wildlife rehabber friend for being willing to do this with and for me. She is terrific (and the best broken bone fixer I have ever seen).

I'd definitely be tubing or syringing some Exact formula with some human baby food (meat) mixed in. This works well for me.

Hang in there Kim .. you're doing fine! Cindy, I'm sorry you've been a bit under the weather .. me too .. upper respiratory .. hope you are feeling better soon!

Terry


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