# Baby Feral Pigeon - Need some advice!



## karijo (Apr 11, 2006)

Hi everybody!
I've been doing bird rescue for a long time, and while I've had my share of young and adult pigeons, this is my first little squab...
I live in CA, but was in CT just for this weekend visiting family when I got a phone call from the wife of a friend of a friend who had gotten a call from an old college friend of hers who had just found a baby pigeon outside his apartment building in Brooklyn. Somehow remembering I worked with birds, the calls went out and she got ahold of me. She gave the guy my number and I travelled 2 hours to go into NYC today to meet the guy and get the bird from him. (I couldn't turn down the chance to help out a pigeon in need, they're my absolute favorite bird!!!)

I've hand fed plenty of baby birds, from tiny finches to baby hawks to hyacinth macaws, and this little guy took to the syringe and hand-rearing formula with no problem. I've fed him twice (once this afternoon and once this evening), and he seems really lively and eats with much gusto. 

I found some progression photos on-line and think he's 8 days old. I'm keeping him dry and warm in soft bedding I'm changing every few hours to keep it clean. He's really sweet! Once I get him home I'll set him up in an aquarium with a ceramic heat lamp over him (what is the best temp?)
I could definitely use some advice on how often to feed him. Somewhere I read they don't need to eat as often as other baby birds, only 3 times a day? Is this correct? 
Also, I keep a pair of eclectus parrots (also rescues) at home in CA (which I'm flying back to tomorrow). What do I need to be concerned about with regards to parasites, bacteria, viruses, diseases? I've read up on canker and worms, is simple quarantine enough? Can young pigeons be taken to a regular avian vet to be tested/treated for illness and given a clean bill of health? (The older pigeons I rescued were just kept in a separate room from the parrots and then rehomed when they were healthy, since they all became too tame to release)
What about this guy? Will he need to be kept as a pet? Too tame to be released? I'm ok with keeping the guy on as a permanent resident, or I could fly him back to NYC when he's old enough if you think that's the better thing to do.
Thanks for any and all advice!
I'm new to baby pigeons, and am really pleased with the course of events that caused this little cutie to end up in my care (especially since I've been seriously daydreaming about building a nice coop on our second floor deck this spring and getting a pair of pigeons!!). How strange that I happened to be on this coast when the call came through! Lucky me!
Best,
Kari Jo


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

Hang in there! fp, will help you out.
Feather


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Kari Jo,

And welcome to Pigeon Talk, as well, thanks for rising to the occasion and helping out here. I will private mail you my info so that you can have on hand.
For now, let's deal with the baby's need's and we can evaluate releasability down the road when it is more appropriate to the pigeon's needs. Please check out our 'Resource' section from the main menu for lots of good information on the care of baby pigeons, as well, the tool bar above has a 'search' tool which 
enables one to look up specific issues.

Give me a call and I will do what I can to help you.

fp

PS--Thanks Feather for giving me the 'heads-up!!

Still need that FACE!!


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Feather!! What's with the no new messages-message? You gonna clear stuff out or what???  

fp


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## JGregg (Jul 28, 2003)

Thanks for saving the baby, and welcome to Pigeon Talk!
Great to have another pigeon person here in the Bay Area.

Your baby pigeon can be taken to an avian vet for a check up. You should call ahead to check if they will look at your pet pigeon (you need to be very clear that it is your pet, or you can call the pigeon a "dove"). There's a great spreadsheet of pigeon friendly vets in the "resources" section.

You may need to get a health certificate for your baby if you plan to fly it back to California.
Please check out the following link for some possible requirements.

http://www.nwa.com/travel/animals/carryonpets.html#documents


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## karijo (Apr 11, 2006)

Thanks Feather!


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## karijo (Apr 11, 2006)

Thanks for helping me out, fp! I look forward to talking to you!


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## karijo (Apr 11, 2006)

JGregg said:


> Thanks for saving the baby, and welcome to Pigeon Talk!
> Great to have another pigeon person here in the Bay Area.
> 
> Your baby pigeon can be taken to an avian vet for a check up. You should call ahead to check if they will look at your pet pigeon (you need to be very clear that it is your pet, or you can call the pigeon a "dove"). There's a great spreadsheet of pigeon friendly vets in the "resources" section.
> ...


Thank you, Gregg! Yeah, what can I say, I adore the little guys. I am part of this bird watching/counting program down at Heron's Head park in SF, and everyone's always getting annoyed when they see my checking something out all excitedly and it turns out to be "just" a bunch of pigeons! Heh.

Anyway, we made it back to CA safe and sound, I printed out a phony Avian Helath Certificate and Statement of Origin just in case I needed it for the flights home (we went from NY to Florida - to see my ill grandmother - then home to Oakland, all in one day!). I didn't need to use them thankfully, and I just told them he was a hand raised pet "fancy dove" when I went through Security. So he's doing well, eating great and real lively! As soon as he hears my voice he gets himself all carried away - I swear I think he got booted out of his nest on account of how pushy he is. I've been feeding him three times a day, just about when his crop is empty. He took to the feeding syringe so well!

I'll be able to take him to the vet this week, but plan to keep him quarantined from my eclectus pair and budgie for at least 30-45 days (pending a clean bill of health after that time frame of course). 
Thanks you guys - I am so happy to have found this site! 
Best,
Kari Jo


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## karijo (Apr 11, 2006)

Here are some pics of the little guy!
"Brooklyn"
http://www.sugarbunnie.com/brooklyn.13.JPG
http://www.sugarbunnie.com/brooklyn.13.1.JPG
http://www.sugarbunnie.com/brooklyn.13.2.JPG
http://www.sugarbunnie.com/brooklyn.13.3.JPG
http://www.sugarbunnie.com/brooklyn.13.4.JPG


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

karijo said:


> Here are some pics of the little guy!
> "Brooklyn"


Hi karijo,

It was nice to meet & speak w/you on the phone, and....so glad you posted the pics. Must say, he just looks angelic and so adorable, hard to believe you could have a 'Dennis the Mennis' on your hands, but then again....not!

The pictures are great, thanks for sharing.

fp


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Well .. Brooklyn is way, way too cute! You've done a great job and please keep us posted!

Terry


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## karijo (Apr 11, 2006)

oh, he's a total maniac! but i love him!
my one chihuahua, lucky, has taken up post on the chair next to brooklyn's little "nest" and likes to guard him. as soon as he starts peeping, lucky runs over and gets me so i'll take care of him. he also won't let my other chi anywhere near brooklyn. he's being so protective over *his* new baby brother. he's completely abandoned his budgie now. LOL
(which he previously obsessed over)
anyway, i'll keep you all posted on his progress - any way to tell if he's a girl or boy at this stage by the way?
just wondering.

thanks again for all your help!!!
best,
KJO


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Hi KariJo and welcome to the forum! Wow! What an adventure! I'm really glad (and surprised) you were able to do all that flying with no hassles!

Sounds like you and Lucky have a feathered friend for life! Since I don't believe in accidents, I'm not surprised you were there for Brooklyn!

She/he is going to be one spoiled bird...I can tell! You will probably have to wait awhile to see if Brooklyn is a "he" or "she." When they are older, pigeon folk say that you can use a mirror to see how he/she reacts. No or little reaction =female, attacking, cooing, etc. = male. Of course, once an egg is laid, THEN you will really know for sure! LOL


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## karijo (Apr 11, 2006)

Thanks for the welcome! I am SO happy I found you all! (finally a place where I won't get funny looks for saying I completely adore pigeons!)
I don't believe in accidents either, and I know I was meant to be there for this little sweetie. (who will absolutely be spoiled beyond belief for sure!)
Thanks for the tip about the mirror! How cute!
Best,
Kari Jo
ps
As for the flying, I know Jetblue doesn't even allow birds on the flight! Never mind that I was also flying with my chihuahua, Lucky! They definitely don't allow you to travel with 2 pets! I really think someone must have been looking out for us! LOL


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## JGregg (Jul 28, 2003)

Booklyn is such a cutie! Looks like you've got a blue bar.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

I'm sure you know what a Blue Bar is, Karijo. But, just in case, Mr. Squeaks, who is pictured as my Avatar with his red flight suit (pigeon diaper), is a Blue Bar...he's also a racing homing pigeon (retired due to wing injury) so he's built a little differently than a feral...coloring is the same.

Brooklyn is going to be a handsome (boy) or beautiful (girl) pij!


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## karijo (Apr 11, 2006)

I looked that up to see what "blue bar" meant and you're right! He is so handsome already. It's amazing how much he changes each day. If he is 14 days today, about how long between each feeding? I am giving him about 10-15cc each time (and I check the temp that it's between 100-110), and it's about the consistency of "baby applesauce". But I notice often his crop isn't totally empty when I go to feed him. Should it be? 

Yesterday I waited longer than usual between two of his feedings to see how empty his crop would get, and it was mostly empty... but it was like 10 hours! (I've been going about every 6 usually). Could the formula be too thick? Too thin? 

Thanks everybody. I want to make sure I'm doing everything right (I never thought I'd say this, but hand feeding eclectus and hyacinth macaws was almost easier than this! LOL Ah, I guess at least Brooklyn is doing his part - he eats wonderfully and is so excited to see me every time I go over to mess with him. He really loves flapping his wings and snuggling up to you! I think I'm just being a worry wort.)


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi karijo,

Ten hours does seem a bit long for the crop to empty. You could thin the mixture down, also, you can syringe some water between feedings and see if this helps the crop to empty better. I'm not a baby expert, and there are many here who are, so hopefully they will be along to weigh in. I'll send the link along to a couple of members.

fp


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I am not that knowledgable about crop problems, but I will tell you what my rehabber (30 years in the business) would do:

Make sure formula is on thin side, as fp mentioned.

Put a drop of Sovereign silver in the formula in case of any infection going on.

Add a drop of olive oil, to get it to move thru, and it will.

Also, additional probiotics with digestive enzymes wouldn't hurt.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hi Karijo

Brooklyn's story is remarkable. A real coast to coast baby!

We have raised several newborns. Some crops go down well and others don't. His should have gone down more quickly than 10 hours. 

We use Kaytee Handfeeding Formula for Macaws but the regular Kaytee is good also. Personally, I no longer pay so much attention to the temperature of the formula after its mixed. When I first started rehabbing I went through two thermometers trying to get just the right temp. 

We feed ours about every 3-4 hours. I just spoon out some dry formula, cut the water on from the sink spigot as hot as it will get and then mix the formula with that. You have to mix really well and keep adding water because the formula will thicken and you'd rather it thicken in the bowl than in the baby. Test a bit on your wrist and it should feel warm. You probably know to never warm formula in a microwave - too much danger of hot spots.

I mix the formula thinner than the directions call for. Right now for Brooklyn I would make it the consistency of thin pancake mix. Give him about 8 -10 cc and about 1 hour later give him about 5 cc of tepid water. You already know to keep checking the crop. If it still doesn't go down, massage it very gently every hour or so and that helps loosen things up. Try this for a couple of days feeding him about every 3-4 hours.

We also add Benebac powder to the formula after it is fully mixed. This aids in digestion also. Just follow directions because you skip certain days with it. We did have a baby with a really bad crop and I put Benebac in his formula every feeding and he did pull through but I try to go by mfg's directions otherwise. I think you can get Benebac at Petsmart or other places. Our vet has also given us a med called Propulsid for some bad cases we've had and it has helped but you need to contact a vet for that. It is given orally with a syringe 20 - 30 min. before each feeding.

Warmth is a key factor. Make sure he is very comfy, no drafts and kept pretty quiet.

You can also soak a pellated dog food like Purina Puppy Chow or Science Diet Maintenance and put a few pieces down their throat even when you feed the Kaytee formula. They are easily digestible. We use Science Diet and just soak an hour or so until its soft but not soggy, cut pellets in half and pop them down.

Hope this has helped. It is such a worry when this happens.

Karijo, I also wanted to add that we have a member, pdpbison (we know him as Phil) who has raised many babies using a "nipple" method. (He has been without electricity recently and has not been able to post, or he would have responded to you by now) He uses an actual baby nipple, grinds seed and uses other products to make a formula, puts it in the nipple and the baby sticks its beak in much like they do their parents' beaks, to feed. Just do a search of his posts and you will find references on how to do this. As a matter of fact, I plan to try this if we ever get another baby in because it is more natural than putting a syringe down a baby's throat and probably more digestible than the Exact, also.


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## karijo (Apr 11, 2006)

It was almost totally empty, but there was still a little formula in there - I guess I am just used to hand feeding parrots and the like, and within a few hours their crops tend to be completely empty and ready for a refill!
That's why this was concerning me a little. It empties, it just seems slower than I would think it would be... 

I did thin this morning's formula a little, and I just gave him about 5cc's of tepid water. I massaged a little, and double checked the ambient temp in his "bedroom" (little 5 gallon tank), it's holding at around 80-85 degrees. He seems real lively and alert, and his feathers are coming in nicely, so hopefully he's doing ok. I can go pick up some Bene-Bac at the pet shop today and see if it helps. I'll also try the drop of olive oil.
Thanks!!
KJO


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## karijo (Apr 11, 2006)

Hi Maggie,
Wow! Thanks for all the info!
Yes, little Brooklyn was meant to be with me here, of that I'm sure! I've been wanting a pigeon for so long but was having a hard time justifying adding to my "flock" here - 2 teenage Vosmaeri Eclectus, 2 chihuahuas, a budgie, a frog, and a 10 year old spider (don't ask - LOL). The last pigeon I had was about 9 years ago, a rescue named Dr. Moriarity who I couldn't keep once he was rehabbed because I just had too many rescues coming in all the time, no room. He went to live with a friend in Westchester, NY who had a beautiful Gazebo built for her two ducks and ringneck dove. It was heated and even had a fountain inside!!! Talk about spoiled.

Anyway! Now that Brooklyn is here, I am excited to have him and look forward to years of spoiling and doting on him!

I've been feeding Zupreem Embrace, I like it better than Kaytee because it doesn't have Ethoxyquin in it. Is that OK? It seems to be the about same otherwise. I don't use a microwave for anything, so no worries there. I boil the water then let it cool a little before adding it to the mix, then wait 2-3 minutes so it can thicken, and check with a therm. that it's around 105 degrees. (And I check it on my wrist first to be sure) I haven't been re-using any formula either or anything like that.

I did what you said and gave him 5cc of water, and massaged. He liked that a lot for some reason. He's really into flapping his wings and showing off lately. Very cute. In his little bed I've got a bunch of "Carefresh Ultra" bedding (it's softer than the regular type apparently, and doesn't have anything added to it or anything like that), super soft papertowels bunched up to make a little nest, and a soft little dish cloth towel for snuggling. When he poops he aims it out of his sleeping area so it's been easy to keep him clean. 

There's a heat lamp with a 50 watt red light bulb (so there's no visible light to bug him), and a thermometer. I have most of the top of the tank covered with a towel to keep it warm. It's on my kitchen table, so as to be away from drafts or nosy chihuahuas. He seems pretty content and comfy overall. I hope this all sounds ok! Please let me know if there's anything I should be doing differently, I want him to do well.

Best,
KJO
(sorry for the long posts!)

ps
I use the innova small bites dog food for my chi's (it's really excellent food with human-grade ingredients, preservative free and no by products). Is that ok to try soaking for him? it's real tiny pieces.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

karijo said:


> I use the innova small bites dog food for my chi's (it's really excellent food with human-grade ingredients, preservative free and no by products). Is that ok to try soaking for him? it's real tiny pieces.


Hi Karijo, 

Just catching up on this thread now. Brooklyn is sure one lucky little pigeon and the circumstances of you getting a call and rescuing him while being out of town are almost uncanny

You sound like a very smart lady, and you seem to have a very good handle on things and how to care for this little one. Your instincts are great and you are definitely conscientious about alll the minute details.

I think the zupreem sounds just fine and yes, the dogfood as well sounds like it would be good for soaking and feeding. Perhaps in a few days, you could begin to wean him off the formula and offer the soaked dog food more. Ground up pigeon pellets, made into a paste are also good for weaning them off formula. These have all the vitamins and minerals added as well are made from a blend of seeds and grains. 

Best wishes and keep us updated and with pics


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hi Karijo - I think you're doing everything right. At best, all any of us can do is try. We learn from each other. 

I think the Innova would be fine, and while I've not used the zupreem embrace, I do use other Zupreem products and see no harm - I like to try different things so I'll make a note of that for later use myself  

Don't worry about the long posts. Most members know that when I get wound up I can go on and on .....  

Do check Phil's posts. He gives a lot of information.


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## karijo (Apr 11, 2006)

Thanks, Brad! Yeah, I am trying to the best for him. 

How many days should he be when I start to begin the weaning process? And any suggestions on what brand of pigeon pellets are best? I use Foundation Formula pellets for my Eclectus (though the Budgie won't touch them and insists on "Itty Bitty Birdie Bites"), but I know they're made for parrots not pigeons. Where can I find info on the nutritional requirements of pigeons? Will budgie type pellets work? (The Itty Bitty Birdie Bites seem to be really great quality and healthy, and I mix the regular formula with the "Bloomin'" one, it's made with germinated seeds, legumes, fruit and veggies, and unheated so the enzymes and nutrients are undamaged).
None of my birds eat much seed, I do a lot of cooking, sprouting, and fruit/veggie chopping for them, plus they get some pellets, dr. beex "bird cakes" and bird bread. Can pigeons be fed similarly or do they require a certain percentage of seed? 

Man, I just keep coming up with more and more questions.
Hehe.

Best,
Kari Jo


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Kari Jo, 

How old is this baby now? You figured he was around 8 days old when you got him so he's around 2 weeks old today?

The brand of pigeon pellets I use are purina pigeon pellets: http://www.internationaldovesociety.com/RNColorPics/pigeonpellets.htm I would stick to pellets that are formulated for pigeons because they have the proper amounts of protein, fat and vitamins specifically designed for pigeons. I'm sure there are other brands on the market and available to you, especially in the USA. Check around and perhaps some of our other members will have a brand(s) to recommend.

I personally feel that the sooner you can wean them off any type of formula, the better. It's unnatural as it is, and the consistancy and ingredients don't really seem to satisfy the baby over the long term. If he is 2 weeks old now, then I would start by gradually mixing in the ground up pellets into the formula now. Start off with just a small amount, then increase the amount of ground pellets over a span of 3 days until it's just these. 

If you know how to tube feed, this would be beneficial (you'll need a bigger tube though) as the paste made from ground pellets and water will be thick. You could also try the nipple method of Pdpbison (Phil) or the baggie method to offer the pellet paste. The last two feeding methods would probably be easier and better for all involved

The pellet paste helps to get them on a more substantial diet, and will reduce the risk of crop stasis or sour crop caused by the powdered formulas. We have been hearing a lot of this lately on the forum. 

And, if you're lucky...the pigeon will begin eating seeds on his own in another week and a bit and you can start encouraging this as well at around 3 weeks old.

These are my suggestions and the ground pellets worked very well for my hand reared youngsters. Listen to all the suggestions made by the other members and figure out what you feel is best for you and the little one

P.S. Yes, pigeons can be offered sprouting greens, or leafy vegetables like romain lettuce finely chopped, kale, or finely shredded carrots. This of course will have to wait until the bird is eating seed on it's own before being introduced but these would be greatly beneficial and hopefully accepted by the pigeon.


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## karijo (Apr 11, 2006)

Hi Brad,
Well, I estimated his hatch date to be April 2nd, so he's 16 days old today?

I hear you about the pigeon pellets, and will order some tomorrow.
Hopefully I can find a brand that doesn't have ethoxyquin or other preservatives in it... bleh! (we're all about organic, natural, preservative and chemical free foods around here. heheh)

He seems so young to start weaning, really? Again, I guess I'm so used to parrots and other non-pigeon native birds who don't wean until a they're a bit older. Hopefully I can get those pellets within the next few days and start switching him over. His crop was totally empty when I got home today - I had a long day with it being the first day back at school after break, and he was NOT happy about me being gone all day! He took 15cc of formula, and about 30 min of cuddling to quiet down. LOL I figure I'll set my alarm for 5 hours from now and feed him again.

Thanks again for all this advice! It seemed to help yesterday when I reduced the feeding to about 8-10cc (thinner formula with a drop of olive oil mixed in), followed with 5cc water 1 hr later. His crop seemed to empty a lot quicker. I'll let you all know how he's doing tomorrow.
I have to take some more pics because he already looks so different!

Oh, how much cuddling is too much? And is it OK to let him go nuts with the wing flapping? Is he just exercising? He seems to be getting a kick out of it when I'm holding him...
Thanks!
Kari


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

karijo said:


> Oh, how much cuddling is too much? And is it OK to let him go nuts with the wing flapping? Is he just exercising? He seems to be getting a kick out of it when I'm holding him...
> Thanks!
> Kari



Hi Kari, 

Pigeons do wean faster than parrots, but when I said weaning, I was referring to his diet from powdered formula to the ground up pellets. He might not actually "wean" totally from hand feeding and onto eating on his own for awhile yet Pigeons normally fledge at around 30-35 days old and are out on their own, eating, flying etc. You can begin to introduce him to seeds at around 3 weeks old, pecking at them with your fingers, showing him. He may catch on early or it could also take a bit of time...all of them are different 

Yes, there are preservatives in those pellets, I think most of them do have preservatives, it's hard to avoid. If you can find ones without them, then all the better. Ground, whole seeds can be used as well, but I have found that they don't mix as well with water, and then you have to add the vitamins, minerals, separately yourself. It would be a challenge to provide a balanced and well rounded diet this way, as well as the proper percentage of vitamins and minerals but if you're good at that, feel free Phil, another member makes his own formula from scratch, using various seeds, probiotics, seaweed, goji berries and other wholesome things. Chick starter is another thing some of our members have used with good results. I have never used this, so I'm not one to advise, I think it's a pellet for young chickens but works well for pigeons too.

I'm glad to hear his crop is emptying better and faster, now that you've started making the formula thinner and adding a drop of olive oil. The powdered formulas do tend to clump in the crop at times, so the addition of the oil should keep things moving and digesting better.

As to your quoted questions up above...NEVER too much cuddling The flapping is normal, he's exercising and enjoying it. Cuddle him often, let him flap till his heart is content, no worries there!


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hi Karijo

I'm glad to hear baby is doing ok. How long is he going between feedings with you at work?

Don't worry about the flapping - just means he is hungry which is a very good thing. Just make sure you keep your eye on him all the time because they run so fast that if he is on a counter he can flap right off  . I think he is still too young to be eating on his on but put some seed in the bottom of his cage and he will start pecking at it.


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## karijo (Apr 11, 2006)

*Flapping and seeds, etc*



Lady Tarheel said:


> Hi Karijo
> 
> I'm glad to hear baby is doing ok. How long is he going between feedings with you at work?
> 
> Don't worry about the flapping - just means he is hungry which is a very good thing. Just make sure you keep your eye on him all the time because they run so fast that if he is on a counter he can flap right off  . I think he is still too young to be eating on his on but put some seed in the bottom of his cage and he will start pecking at it.


Normally I'm out no longer than 6 hours, but yesterday was a miserable exception (I was out for almost 11 hours!!!). ALL the animals were annoyed. Everyone seemed OK though, and nobody, not even the little pigeon, had starved to death (though I think he thought he had!). 

I'll be really careful with him on the table - I usually just put him back in his bed if I have to turn away from him for some reason. I definitely don't want him tossing himself to the ground! Thanks for the info about the flapping and seeds! He is just getting SO handsome!
Best,
Kari


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## JGregg (Jul 28, 2003)

I'm so glad to hear that everything is going well with the little guy. The flapping can get really frantic, some of the babies fwee fwee while they smack themselves in the face with a wing. Then they give the offending wing a dirty look, "Why are you doing this to me?" It's so cute.

Good move with not leaving him on a table and turning away!


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## karijo (Apr 11, 2006)

JGregg said:


> The flapping can get really frantic, some of the babies fwee fwee while they smack themselves in the face with a wing. Then they give the offending wing a dirty look, "Why are you doing this to me?" It's so cute.


LOL
Too cute!!!

Meanwhile his crop is still on the slow side so we're going to the vet on Sat for a check-up, fecal, and maybe some blood work to test for any internal nasties. The vey said I shouldn't be too worried about him since he's pooping fine (and by fine I mean often, LOL, well and it is a normal color and consistency), lively (is he ever), and otherwise OK. He'll be three weeks old on Sat so I'm hoping we can treat him for anything he may be harboring, and give him a clean bill of health. 

(And I'm keeping up with the water between meals and massaging, it seems to help a lot!)
Best,
Kari (and Brooklyn)


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Karijo, thanks for the updaate. Brooklyn is a doll baby.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi karijo, 

Sounds like Brooklyn is doing well and you have things in hand. Glad to hear the slow crop is improving and that he'll be seeing a vet this weekend. BTW, which vet do you use, and is the vet an avian vet? There's a pet store named Lucky Dog on San Pablo Ave. in Berkeley that sells pigeon seed/mix as well if you are interested. The owner raises pigeons and has some really beautiful pigeons in the back of the store. He's expanding to two coops, might even have the second built by now. If you ask him to see his pigeons, he will most likely take you back there to see. He has many different breeds and is knowledgable on the topic. 

fp


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## karijo (Apr 11, 2006)

feralpigeon said:


> Hi karijo,
> 
> Sounds like Brooklyn is doing well and you have things in hand. Glad to hear the slow crop is improving and that he'll be seeing a vet this weekend. BTW, which vet do you use, and is the vet an avian vet? There's a pet store named Lucky Dog on San Pablo Ave. in Berkeley that sells pigeon seed/mix as well if you are interested. The owner raises pigeons and has some really beautiful pigeons in the back of the store. He's expanding to two coops, might even have the second built by now. If you ask him to see his pigeons, he will most likely take you back there to see. He has many different breeds and is knowledgable on the topic.
> 
> fp


OK, I am totally going to that store!
The vet that I use for my birds is Dr. Alex Herman at All Pets Hospital on S. Van Ness in San Francisco. She's a certified avian vet and really nice. She is out on maternity leave right now, so I am seeing Dr. Nicola Melliar-Smith who is allegedly also certified.  
I've also been to the famous Dr. Brian Speer in Oakley, and he was OK, but I decided to stick with All Pets Hospital.

I'm glad you mentioned the pigeon mix because I was up for too long last night trying to find an acceptable pigeon pellet/mix. I'm frustrated because I really like giving my kiddos the absolute best, I cook for my Ekkies twice a day - they get an organic diet complete with fresh fruits, veggies, dark leafy greens, sprouts, birdie bread I bake, Dr. Beex "Bird Cakes", with some organic preservative-free pellets and a little seed/nut/dried fruit/veggie mix (I make it myself from ingredients I get at the health food store) every day. They eat better than I do!

I really want to provide the little squabbie with the same kind of quality in his diet - I know he has different nutritional requirements and everything, but I wonder if anyone can suggest a pellet brand that is the best? Without any added preservatives and is excellent quality? Also I was trying to find a list of the seeds that are best for them, because I would rather buy him organic human-grade seeds and make the mix myself. I know I'm being fussy but I'm so used to being this way about what everyone else in the house eats, and I want to do the best I can for this guy too! 

Thanks again for all your help everybody!

Best,
Kari Jo and Brooklyn


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## JGregg (Jul 28, 2003)

My pigeons get some Harrison's High Potency Fine (about a tablespoon) in with thier seeds on occasion. Harrison's food is high quality and organic, but has the downside of being expensive. That's why my birds don't get it all of the time!

http://www.naturechest.com/harrisons.html


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Karijo - In the "Pet Pigeon" forum, Reti posted a "sticky" (permanent thread) that has information about seeds and grains, etc. to feed. She also mixes her own...

The sticky is the FIRST one listed. Should answer your feeding questions.


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## karijo (Apr 11, 2006)

Hi!
I picked up some "Harrison's high potency fine" yesterday when I took Brooklyn to the vet for a check up. She said he looks really good, and told me not to worry about the slow crop since he seemed otherwise healthy. She did take a sample of the formula that was still in his crop from about 11pm the night before (it was 8am when she took the sample) to check for any bacteria. I haven't heard back from her yet, but he's also had 3 doses of the Bene-Bac as of last night, and it seems like his crop is moving along faster now. 

I bought some pigeon seed mix yesterday also, and am going to buy some stuff from the health food store tomorrow to make up a batch of my own with the same ingredients (and some other goodies too). 

Here's some more pics of little Brooklyn, 22 days old now!








feathers coming in nicely!








in his bed, waiting for breakfast








"where is my food??" (obviously not interested in the little pellets I put on the towel for his inspection!)








mister handsome

Thanks again for all your help everybody!


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Kari, 

Good to hear from you and your great update on Brooklyn...he looks GREAT! I think you have things well under control all on your own over there and this little youngster has an excellent care giver looking after him


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Brooklyn is just gorgeous! What a good looking youngster! I'm glad things are going well.

Terry


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

He is just so cute, what a lovely baby.
Great job you're doing with him.

Reti


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Great pictures!

Brooklyn does look happy and healthy!  

Thanks for the update.


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## karijo (Apr 11, 2006)

Thanks, everybody!

He has almost outgrown his little 5 gallon aquarium now... He likes to stand on his bear to be taller and I'm worried it's a just a matter of time before he decides to leave his bedroom on his own!
How much longer do I need to worry about the ambient air temperature around him? I've been keeping him at 80-85 degrees. When can I move him into a cage that would offer him with a little more flapping room? (I know he's still too young for perches and such, but I could set it up like he's set up now with soft bedding on the bottom, etc. I just wouldn't have as much control over his temp) I'm in Oakland, so it's not freezing here or anything, but it's not exactly bathing suit weather yet either. Thanks!

Best,
Kari Jo


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Kari Jo,

What great pics of the baby, well, teenager almost! You could put him in a cage with a heating pad covered w/towel set to low at this point I believe. He looks to have some good feathering on him w/tail coming in. If there's an area where there is no heating pad in the cage, then he'll have the option of getting off if he wants. 

He just looks so great, thanks for the info on your vet, I think I know the spot, will have to check them out.

fp


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Brooklyn looks JUST GREAT, Karijo! He's going to a spoiled bird, I can tell... 

Make sure his cage will be big enough that when he becomes an adult he'll have room to flap his wings. Also, pigeons like flat perches as opposed to branches like some other bird breeds. Many members have a brick or two to help keep his nails from getting too sharp and long.

Mr. Squeaks weighs a pound and is in a collapsible cage that is 29"L x 21"W x 23"H. He also spends a lot of time out and about, "ruling" the apartment.


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## karijo (Apr 11, 2006)

Thanks for the advice on the heating pad, fp! I'll look into that! 

Mr. Squeaks is so cute! A pound! Wow! heehee I hope Brooklyn gets that big.
I definitely want him to have a big roomy cage for when I'm not home. When I AM home I hope he can just wander around and do his own thing like everybody else around here! The cage I have handy right now isn't big enough for him to stay in all day, but I think it will do until he is a little older. 

I'd love to get my eclectus (Sabrina and Babar) a new bigger cage and give him theirs eventually (I got it a year ago and it's almost 7' tall, by 4' x 3' !). Will I be able to let him fly around outside when I'm sitting out on our deck when he is older? Do they know to come home? 

Also, I wondered if anyone has ever kept a pigeon with a budgie? My little english budgie is obsessed with my eclectus but they want nothing to do with him whatsoever. (Sabrina would like to beat him up and Babar is petrified of him!)
I thought maybe if the cage was big enough they could hang out maybe?
I guess maybe I just have to wait and see if they would get along after Brooklyn's no longer in quarantine (aka "solitary confinement" LOL)

Thanks!
Best,
Kari Jo


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

*Mr. Squeaks is so cute! A pound! Wow! *

Mr. Squeaks was bred as a racing homing pigeon and they can be larger than ferals due to breeding for short and long races...

*Will I be able to let him fly around outside when I'm sitting out on our deck when he is older? Do they know to come home? *

I would be VERY leery of letting him fly "free" outside. There can be predators (hawks) who can strike in a split second! Victor lost his beloved Tooter that way. He will not make that mistake again...

*Also, I wondered if anyone has ever kept a pigeon with a budgie? My little english budgie is obsessed with my eclectus but they want nothing to do with him whatsoever. (Sabrina would like to beat him up and Babar is petrified of him!) I thought maybe if the cage was big enough they could hang out maybe?*

I don't know if it would be a good idea to put them in the _same_ cage, but you could put their cages next to each other and see how they react. A pigeon is quite a bit larger than a budgie and could unintentionally hurt the smaller bird. Just my opinion...


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## karijo (Apr 11, 2006)

OK, so my vet just called and said Brooklyn didn't have an abundance of gram negative bacteria in his crop (from the sample of formula she withdrew), but he did have a little yeast which could very well be causing the slow crop.
She said there was either nyastatin or fluconazole ( i think? ). Which do you all prefer, and how much, how often, etc. She said she's used it on psittacines before, but not pigeons. So I told her I'd discuss it with you all to see what the dosing should be for a 23 day old squabbie.
Thanks!
-Kari Jo


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

karijo said:


> OK, so my vet just called and said Brooklyn didn't have an abundance of gram negative bacteria in his crop (from the sample of formula she withdrew), but he did have a little yeast which could very well be causing the slow crop.


Hi Kari Jo, 

You can use ACV (apple cider vinegar) in a diluted mixture of water at the ratio of 5ml /500ml or 1 teaspoon to 2 cups. Get a brand that has the "mother" in it and also This will help with yeast problems, especially if they are minor and not an overgrowth. 

Probiotics can also be given in higher amounts now too to populate the gut with good bacteria. I know you prefer natural things and organic so I just thought you'd might try these first before drugs.

Is Brooklyn drinking on his own now?


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Kari Jo,

Either of the drugs your vet suggested will work, but as Brad posted, there are "easier" ways to deal with slow crop .. ACV (Apple Cider Vinegar) in the water is one .. and a dose or two of baking soda water is another. Ask your vet about trying one or the other of these and see what you get .. DON'T do both at the same time .. you will "erupt" your pigeon.

Terry


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## karijo (Apr 11, 2006)

Brooklyn just got his fourth dose of Bene-Bac tonight. I'm doing 0.5g (a half a tube) every other day. I have noticed a slight improvement in the speed of his crop emptying, but it's still slower than I'd like.

Should I increase the dosage of Benebac to 0.5g every day? 
I'll pick up some ACV from the health food store tomorrow (and will make sure it's got "The Mother").

He is not eating or drinking on his own yet... The vet thought I should keep hand feeding him for a little while still. I tried to offer some pellets but he just gets mad and wants his formula. 

I was just looking at the site with the progression pics of a squab - should I be worried that Brooklyn isn't more developed yet? He looks more like the 19 day old than the 23 day old. Is it just because he is on formula and not Mother Pigeon's milk?

Thanks!
Kari


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## karijo (Apr 11, 2006)

TAWhatley said:


> Hi Kari Jo,
> 
> Ask your vet about trying one or the other of these and see what you get .. DON'T do both at the same time .. you will "erupt" your pigeon.
> 
> Terry


OMG, no I definitely don't want any eruptions!!!!
Eee!


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

karijo said:


> Should I increase the dosage of Benebac to 0.5g every day?
> 
> 
> He is not eating or drinking on his own yet... The vet thought I should keep hand feeding him for a little while still. I tried to offer some pellets but he just gets mad and wants his formula.
> ...


Hi Kari, 

No, you don't have to increase the "dose" of the probiotics, just make sure he's getting them regularly.

Keep trying with the pellets and expose him to seeds too. Keep dishes and bowls of them around all the time when feeding him. Encourage him to peck by showing him with your fingers in the dish. Try gently dipping his beak into the water so that he gets a feel for the water on his beak. He's also old enough now to offer him a bath. This might encourage him to start drinking as well if he gets in the water and starts splashing around.

Hand raised birds always mature and grow a little slower than ones fed by their natural parents, this is normal and they will catch up in time


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

karijo said:


> Will I be able to let him fly around outside when I'm sitting out on our deck when he is older? Do they know to come home?
> 
> Kari Jo


Hi Kari Jo,

There are members here who do allow their birds free flight time outdoors. I would say not to be afraid to give it a try but just use your common sense about hazards they may encounter. If you are in a yard surrounded by mad-dogs and feral cats you may want to reconsider. However, if you live in a normal neighborhood the risks are lower. You can read up on trap training birds on this site and outdoor precautions for pet birds. One thing you will learn is to not allow your bird out on a full stomach. They are much more likely to come in when called if hungry. Also you will need a method for calling your bird in should it stray from sight or fly off to a neighbors roof. Can-shaking, whistles etc are known to work. But you need to do some indoor training and feel confident it works before just opening the glass doors and letting birdie out.

It is not really possible to predator-proof a pet pigeon. At least not easily done. Bird parents do this well, people do not. So it will be up to you to call the little one in if you spot a hawk or a cat nearby. 

It may not be everyones opinion but I do not think the fears or experiences of others should discourage you from trying to free-fly your bird, nor deprive your bird of the opportunity to live in the sun a little. So by all means, plan to allow the little one some time outside, just be cautious about how you do it and read up some of the very good threads on the subject.

Cameron


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

I'd weigh in with no free flight time unless trained to home, and unless you are willing to put up with the consequences of a hawk attack. We just have a lot of different types of predators in this area. Victor had even trained Tooter to come when called and rode on his bicycle w/Tooter on his shoulder. In a seeming split second when he turned away, a hawk swooped down and attacked Tooter. You can search his story above. There are other stories as well. Now Phil, let's his rescues free fly and sometimes they come back in and sometimes not, in fact a nesting mom, just up and decide to go. Yours, being hand raised won't have some of the tools that rescues have should he decide to split.

You could try the acv--Braggs is a popular one--and if you aren't getting the desired results, then please give me a call and I'll give you some Nystatin. I have the Fluconazole, but I think it a bit of a big gun for a baby w/only a mild yeast issue.

fp

fp


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## JGregg (Jul 28, 2003)

Just wanted to put my two cents in. About 0.5 cc plain yogurt with an active culture (acidophilus) can help with mild Candidiasis. Acidophilus is a probiotic. I wouldn't combine yogurt treatment with anything but antibiotics, and since you're allready giving probiotics don't bother.

Yogurt is mostly composed of bacteria, it doesn't harm the bird to be given it as a treatment (one of my pet pigeons took it as a baby).


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## karijo (Apr 11, 2006)

*more on brooklyn*

Hi everybody!
Sorry I haven't posted in a little bit, things have been so busy! Well, little Brooklyn is doing great! I did decide to put him on the nystatin, and he seems to have a normally functioning crop now. I am still doing the Benebac every other day too.

He sure has grown! On Saturday morning last weekend he ate on his own all of a sudden, and since then has been chowing down on the Harrison's "High Potency Fine" pellets, which my Vet suggested I put him on. Is it OK to let him eat that mostly? I know with parrots and similar type birds pellets and fresh food diet is much healthier than seed (my eclectus' diet is only ~10% seed). Is this the case with pigeons too? Can he eat mostly pellets with some other fresh foods and some seeds? He really loves the Harrison's and isn't too interested in the pigeon mix I got him. I have tried to give him some of the warm foods (Quiko eggfood, Beak Appetit, bird bread, Dr. Beex bird cakes, etc) I give the ekkies but he doesn't seem to like anything that sticks to his beak. I don't mind that the Harrison's is costly (never mind how fast he is going through the first bag).

Thanks!


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## karijo (Apr 11, 2006)

*brooklyn at 28 days!*


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## karijo (Apr 11, 2006)

and at 32 days old he has taken over. this used to be my bed, now he and the dogs are all cozy and where do I get to sleep I ask you??


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## karijo (Apr 11, 2006)

also, at 32 days.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

OMG! Brooklyn is just the plumpest, cutest, most darling litte one! Hope you are enjoying your siesta time on the floor .. in the cage .. or wherever you have found that wasn't already occupied  

Terry


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Lovely pics. He is just so adorable.
The dogs are gorgeous too.
You can always sleep on the couch.

Reti


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Wonderful pictures, Brooklyn is soooo adorable and just looks spoiled wrotten 
The dogs are a couple of cuties as well, and seem to already know the drill where birds are concerned. 

fp


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## karijo (Apr 11, 2006)

ha. the eclectus have taken over the couch.
anybody have a room to rent me? so i have somepleace to hang out? LOL
glad you all like the pics! Brooklyn IS a little plumpie guy! lucky and toby are the two chihuahuas, and don't worry anybody - they're totally used to birds, but i still don't leave them unattended with BK! (i think he is going to outweigh them soon though!)

KJO


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Kari Jo, 

Brooklyn is ADORABLE!!!! and he is a picture of absolute health Thank you for checking in with us and giving an update on how he's doing. 

Pigeons do well on an all pellet diet, and the harrisons pellets sound like they are especially good. I would still keep offering him seeds in case he does take a liking to them because variety and the roughage is good for him. Just as a side note, pigeons don't need grit if they are only eating pellets. The pellets are soft and easily digestible as well they contain vitamins & minerals already. 

I don't think you really need much instruction however, you seem to have everything under control Thanks for the pictures and your little Toby & Lucky are so cute too. You're right, soon Brooklyn might outweigh each of them! LOL.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Brooklyn is really cute. He looks quite comfortable in his cage as if he is the king of his castle.  I suppose he is the boss of the dogs too?  He gives a new meaning to "ruling the roost".


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Karijo, great pictures of both your furred and feathered buddies. Brooklyn looks so good. How can you not love a face like that. Re the pelleted food - I would be thanking my lucky stars that Brooklyn is eating those. They are supposed to be nutritionally complete and very good for birds. We are rehabbing a little dove named Milo and our vet said to try to get him switched to Harrisons - that it was so good for them. Haven't won that battle yet!

Be sure to keep an eye on his rope perch though. Their nails can hang on them sometimes too easily. Although not as pretty as the rope perches, we use natural tree branches which aids in preventing foot problems. 

He is so gorgeous.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Lady Tarheel said:


> Re the pelleted food - I would be thanking my lucky stars that Brooklyn is eating those. They are supposed to be nutritionally complete and very good for birds. We are rehabbing a little dove named Milo and our vet said to try to get him switched to Harrisons - that it was so good for them. Haven't won that battle yet!


Hi Maggie,

My pigeons wouldn't here of it, they don't regard it as real "food". Also, since they have been on all seed, grain diet all their life it is hard to switch. I think it is probably easier to wean them right on the pellets....and some babies are just picky picky eaters, and they will never eat them, unless they are starving.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

GREAT UPDATE, Karijo! Brooklyn has sure come a loooong way since we first met him! You are doing a wonderful job!  He is a REAL CUTIE!

No danger of Brooklyn getting bored I can see. I'm sure he'll have your dogs trained in NO time, just like Squeaks did with my 4 cats!  

Just LOVE updates and pictures! No danger of boredom around here! ROFL

I do hope you find a place to sleep...very hard to do standing up...well, you could always "squeeze" yourself on one side of the bed and never move...


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## JGregg (Jul 28, 2003)

Yep, you'd have to be careful about rolling around!


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Kari Jo, 

It's been about a month now since your last update...just wanted to know how Brooklyn is doing and if you have any new pictures


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## karijo (Apr 11, 2006)

Hi!
Well little Brooklyn is doing fantastic! I HAVE to take some pics tonight, I got him a "flightsuit" bird diaper thingy in red so he can hang out all day in the house with me and not leave a little trail of craps (hehe) and its SO CUTE.
I have a slight emergency though - hopefully someone in the Oakland/Bay Area can help me out. I was driving down Shattuck and saw a lovely little pigeon fellow wandering around, weaving through traffic with a droopy wing. I quickly pulled over, my best friend was like What are you doing?! and I said, "Saving another pigeon!". I escorted him off the road, and tossed my jacket over the little guy to catch him. He couldn't fly. I went back to the car and my friend got a towel from the back and we wrapped him in it to keep him quiet and calm. I called all over and no one would take him ("We don't treat pigeons"). I even called a wildlife rescue in Marin who told me if they couldn't release him to the wild they would euthanize him because (and I quote): "Adult pigeons don't do well in captivity (bullcrap) and we do what's in the best interest of the pigeon." So I asked if they could call me if he couldn't be released and I would be happy to take him as a permanent resident since I already have one feral pigeon living in the lap of luxury - they said no. So I promptly told the woman that in fact feral pigeons do quite well in "captivity" (Brooklyn hardly considers living in his own 1BR flat with a huge backyard and 12' x 14' deck to hang out on "captivity" - never mind he has his own 2 chihuahuas to boss around) and that I was certain the pigeon would consider living as opposed to NOT living in his own best interest!! Putting a bird down just because he doesn't have "full range of motion" or can't fly anymore?? Ridiculous. So now "Berkeley" is hanging out in Brooklyn's old cage on the deck, covered with towels so he's not scared or anything. I can't bring him in, because of BKLYN and my parrots, (BKLYN got a clean bill of health from the Vet by the way!), so are any of you in the area interested in taking him in? He is very sweet and not at all freaked out. His wing is still droopy of course. I might be able to get him to a vet tomorrow - a friend of a friend. But I'm not sure I can keep him since 1. I don't presently have an aviary set up (BKLYN's an apartment guy) and 2. He likely has parasites and what not I don't want to expose BKLYN to. Maybe one of you has 

fera---
r0y


sor
Sorry, BKLYN is trying to play whille I'm typing!
Anyway - please contact me at 415-218-8700 if you can help us out.

Best,
Kari Jo and Brooklyn (and Berkeley!)


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Karijo, 

Great pics of you and Brooklyn, and great save for Berkeley. I'm glad you asked Wildcare first before bringing him over there.....I learned the hard way on the wing issue with them. I know of a couple of possiblities that might work out.
I'll give ya a buzz. 

fp


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

GREAT UPDATE, Karijo! Brooklyn looks like Squeaks and has grown into quite the handsome guy (girl???)

Sure hope you find a home for Berkeley...I'm sure fp will be able to help...


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

feralpigeon said:


> I know of a couple of possiblities that might work out.
> I'll give ya a buzz. fp


Thanks, FP! Much appreciated!

Terry


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Karijo,

Glad FP was "on the job."

Just wanted to say that picture of you with Brooklyn on your head is just priceless....I love it.

Linda


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## karijo (Apr 11, 2006)

thanks everybody!
i feel so bad for Berkeley, he looks all bored out there on the deck, while Brooklyn is inside doing whatever he darn well pleases. Poor thing, and his wing is still droopy. I am taking him to my vet in SF tomorrow, to try and mend the wing, then hopefully someone on here can take him in!
I can't tell if he's eaten or drank anything either, though he's made quite a mess in the cage! LOL

I'll try and get a pic.
Best,
Kari


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Karijo,

The possibility that you mentioned for today did not happen? Please do let
me know what happens and we can go from there.

fp


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## karijo (Apr 11, 2006)

Great news!! I finally got ahold of Dr. Schuchman and he agreed to take Berkeley in! Hooray! I told him that if he was releasable when he was all healed that I would be happy to return him to where I found him, and if not, that as long as he was cleared of any and all parasites (internal/external) and any other communicable diseases or anything, that I would be happy to adopt him as long as Brooklyn was OK with it!
He said he was also happy to add him to his farm if need be.
I'm so happy but it was hard to hand him over when I got there, I got kinda used to the big fella.
He was such a calm and polite pigeon - not like some persons I know who are being very bossy and pushy lately! 
Thanks again for all the help, and I will keep you all posted on Berkeley's recovery! (Especially if a permanent home is needed)
Thanks!
(Brooklyn is going to be happy to have his deck back)
Best,
Kari Jo and BKLYN


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## JGregg (Jul 28, 2003)

Great news, though you never can seem to stop at one pigeon (as I've found out!).


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Glad to hear that Dr. Schuchman has agreed to help out, he's never refused a pigeon thus far that I know of.....and many times, no matter how 'scragly' looking will thank you so sincerely for bringing them in to him. Does have a better feeling than the 'question mark' involved in bringing especially wing injuries to Wildcare.

He does also seem willing to allow you to adopt if not releasable.

fp


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## karijo (Apr 11, 2006)

*Berkeley and Brooklyn updates!*

OK, just an update.
I just spoke with Jean at the vet's office in Castro Valley and she said Berkeley is doing well and still at the hospital recovering. She explained that they usually keep them about a month or so, and then see how well they can fly and if they can be set free. If he can't, the doc will keep him or let me take him in as another freeloader.  

As for Brooklyn - someone, please. Enlighten me. What is with the pinching??
Nevermind that the little darling has modified his coo to sound like a chihuahua bark - I kid you not. If I can get a video camera I will film it. He is so weird. OK, so he's a pinchy guy. Why does he do this? He gets all pleased about it too, sometimes its a quick pinch (he likes to sneak up on you and get you), other times he really grabs hold of my hand or finger and likes to toss his head around and coo while he's holding on with the best grip he can muster. Is he getting fresh with me or am I dealing with a completely deranged bird here?

He's really into his dance moves too - circling around while puffing up his throat and such. Now he's added the "puffy butt and touch my tail to the floor" move. It's cute but he gets all irritated if you don't participate in some way. All this and now I can't even shower alone anymore, some bird insists on joining me. I swear - Brooklyn has more personality than most people I know!

Oh, and for a bird with what, 37 taste buds? He sure is picky!!
I tried to give him a different brand of pellets when we ran out of harrison's (looked the same to me) and he wouldn't touch them. Brat.

Hope everyone's birds are doing well!
Best,
Kari Jo and Brooklyn


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

What's with the "pinching"?? That means your very special to him  , and he
probably does think he's being a bit 'fresh', but that your deranged for not responding properly  .

Imitating the chihuahua's?? I once picked up a feral who imitated the sound of the seagulls from the marina where he was dragged out of the water fighting off three of them, so go figure.....

Sounds like you and Brooklyn are having a ball, glad to hear he's keeping you on your toes.

fp


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

karijo said:


> He's really into his dance moves too - circling around while puffing up his throat and such. Now he's added the "puffy butt and touch my tail to the floor" move. It's cute but he gets all irritated if you don't participate in some way. All this and now I can't even shower alone anymore, some bird insists on joining me.
> Best,
> Kari Jo and Brooklyn


Oh boy, glad you signed yourself as Kari Jo and Brooklyn, because it looks like Brooklyn has chosen you as "his girl."

Great, great update...I really enjoy reading your posts.

Linda


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## JGregg (Jul 28, 2003)

Yeah, It sounds like your bird is a bro.


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## karijo (Apr 11, 2006)

Re: BK's cooing...
That's a riot about the pigeon imitating seagulls! I love it!

Brooklyn gets upset when I "make fun" of his regular cooing. He goes through his little skit, then I go "Boopity boopity boop! Boopity boopity boop!" back at him laughing, and he gets totally annoyed like I'm not doing it right. Heheh.

So his new thing is he sits on the table and goes "Crrrrrrrrrrr....Crrrrrrrrrr." real low and it sounds EXACTLY like the dogs growling when they play, or he goes "Rrrrogh....rrrrogh" but in a soft "cooey" way to sound like the little barks they make. IT'S SO WEIRD! He really is putting a lot of effort into it too!

And it's so lovely to hear the pinching is "normal"...I guess. I used to have a little ringneck dove who used to dance and coo for me because he was a little enamored with me, but he never got pinchy. BK is getting awfully bossy and pushy. What's next?? Any other weird "moves" I better prepare myself for?

Glad you are enjoying the updates - I'll post some more pics soon. He is starting to get colors in his neck and throat area, purples and greens. 
Though, he yanks a bunch of feathers out everytime I have left him for more than 2 days though, for vacation or whatever. Even though I have a sitter stay at the house. Please don't tell me I'm going to have to start traveling with him now too?

Oh, any special treats or something I can give him? I tried to give him a muffin from the Health Food Store but he just completely decimated it and I don't think actually ate any of the thing. It was all over the deck, much to the dogs' delight.

Best,
Kari Jo


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Special treats? Try Safflower seeds and/or hemp seeds...Squeaks loves 'em...he also likes bits of "green" when I make a salad. I drop little pieces and he just gobbles away. And, he really MOVES to get 'em!

Sounds like you are going through the same thing as the thread "Coo Kisses!"
And Squeaks does the same thing "attacking" my bare feet! Check out the thread...you'll feel right at home!! ROFL


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## karijo (Apr 11, 2006)

BK does like safflower seeds - I went and got some hemp seeds from the Health Food store today and he seemed to like those too, thanks for that suggestion! I also got him an organic blueberry corn muffin which he kicked around but didn't eat. I tried some greens but he flung those off the table to the dogs too. I'll keep trying.

Thanks!
KJO


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## karijo (Apr 11, 2006)

Hi everybody!
It's been a while, I know. Brooklyn has been keeping me very busy!
He's doing fabulous. He's molted out a lot of "baby feathers" that used to have a single stress bar down at the tip, I'm sure shwoing the day he was out in the cold wet rain waiting to be rescued. They've been replaced with gorgeous new teenager feathers, and his neck has turned all green and purple. Even his tail feathers have been replaced with wider, longer ones. He is quite the looker!
He still spends most of his time with my chihuahuas, lounging on the deck, cuddling in the bed or on the sofa, playing with toys... He likes to go on walks with us sometimes, flying from ledge to ledge or riding on my shoulder (or the top of my head) around the neighborhood. I keep an eye out for hawks and stuff, but we don't seem to have anybody too dangerous where I am in Oakland, and he loves flying around and being with us. Plus I figure its good for him to learn the area so he won't get lost if he ever gets spooked and flies off.
He LOVES to stand guard over the coputer mouse. Heaven help the poor fool (me) who dares to try and use it while he is there... 
He's really pinchy. I swear - he gets into his dance and throat puffing and gets all mad if you don't stop what you're doing and turn in a little circle while saying "boopity boopity boo" over and over again. It's a weird pigeon version of the Hokey Pokey or something.
Is there anyway to nicely explain to him that pinching is not the best way to show someone you care?
He gets rough!!
My favorite is when he sneaks into the shower with me - it's too cute, he stands on the tub floor and creeps under the water, leaning to one side and lifting his wing up so he gets under his armpits.
Whatta kook!!!
He still only likes to eat his Harrison's pellets too - which is fine by me even though it's ridiculously expensive.
OK, thanks for reading. I'll post some pics soon!
Best,
Kari Jo and Brooklyn


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Kari Jo....good to hear from you I'm glad to read that Brooklyn is doing so well, looking forward to the new pictures


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

So glad to hear the good news about Brooklyn, Karijo!

Squeaks likes showers too! Sure beats cleaning up water around a kitty litter box!

Sometimes Mr. Squeaks will pinch (bite) me a good one and he hurts! When I'm reaching in his home to get his food dish or egg basket, he always gets me in a soft part of my arm! He also likes to attack bare feet, which he considers the "enemy!"

Look forward to those pics. He definitely sounds like a male!


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Karijo .. glad to hear all the good news .. I'd be really, really careful about taking Brooklyn or any bird out in spite of the lack of hawks or other predators .. all it takes is one scary noise or sight .. and bird is gone ..

Terry


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

karijo said:


> Hi everybody!
> 
> *I swear - he gets into his dance and throat puffing and gets all mad if you don't stop what you're doing and turn in a little circle while saying "boopity boopity boo" over and over again. It's a weird pigeon version of the Hokey Pokey or something.*


ROFL!! I can so picture that. They do get rough! If you don't already, try putting your hand flat on his back and patting him several times. If he's anything like my pigeons, male or female, he will hunker down and get into a (female!) mating position. Even the boys do this usually, we don't bother telling them they're doing it all backwards.  Pat him for a few minutes and when you're done with "the deed", he will most be satisfied for awhile (careful he doesn't sneak out onto the balcony for a smoke though ). This aleviates some of the pinching and rough behavior, as he's "driving" you to the nest since you're his mate. Once you "mate" with him by patting his back, it usually does the trick to help stop some of the rough behavior, as he thinks at that point that he won. Male pigeons do have a typically rough behavior towards mates (even people mates) and this will probably continue throughout his life, as is common. I've really enjoyed your story and love the updates.


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## karijo (Apr 11, 2006)

maryjane said:


> Pat him for a few minutes and when you're done with "the deed", he will most be satisfied for awhile (careful he doesn't sneak out onto the balcony for a smoke though ). This aleviates some of the pinching and rough behavior, as he's "driving" you to the nest since you're his mate. Once you "mate" with him by patting his back, it usually does the trick to help stop some of the rough behavior, as he thinks at that point that he won.


Well, I'm recently new to the single life but if this is what I have to look forward to...

LOL

I will definitely try this, and hopefully it works. Otherwise I was going to have to duct-tape him down to the sofa to keep him quiet, just kidding. Wait - would that work? LOL joking!

Seriously, thanks for the advice! I really appreciate it.
And don't worry - I am SUPER careful about the hawks. I don't let him come with us everyday, and usually I do make him wear his flight suit with the leash attached. (Then any hawks will have to find a way to take me too)
But at the same time, I do think it's important for him to know the area around here, in case he ever does decide to fly off. I think he'd have a better shot at coming home. I never take him out dawn or dusk as these tend to be prime predator times, even though we don't have any reported resident hawks in this area. He loves the deck so much too. He sits in the sun with the dogs on their little mat, all snuggled up. Do you think a hawk would try and pick him off right there with the 2 dogs? They're such loud mouths, I'd be shocked. I mean, I know it's a huge risk but I hate the thought of him having to live his whole life indoors... 


Best,
KJO
(pics soon, I promise)


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## karijo (Apr 11, 2006)

*Just checking in...*

Hi everybody!
I know its been a while, but I wanted to say Hi and post some recent pics of Brooklyn. He's doing so fabulous! He just got a new cage today and it's really really nice (only $150 from Quality Discount Cages, included shipping and I got the thing in like 2 days!!!! Just in case anyone's looking for a good place to get a decent cage for an indoor pidge'.). So here's some pics of him bathing and stuff, he's been really living it up - not bad for a guy off the streets of Brooklyn, NY!  
He's just got the best little personality!









Mister Handsome!









Waiting for everyone to catch up after a walk...
(The two chi's up top are mine, the two at the bottom were just having a sleepover party)









Bathtime!


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## karijo (Apr 11, 2006)

*A few more...*









Loving that bath!









"Mom, get under my pitts!"


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Those pics are wonderful. Brooklyn has a wonderful life.
Does he know how lucky he is?

Reti


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Karijo, good to hear from you. Those pictures of Brooklyn speak a thousand words. He looks so healthy and content. It still amazes me that you rescued him from 3,000 miles away.

Does the new cage mean he will be staying inside your home? I worry so when pet pigeons go outside.


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## karijo (Apr 11, 2006)

Reti said:


> Those pics are wonderful. Brooklyn has a wonderful life.
> Does he know how lucky he is?
> 
> Reti


Thanks!
And I don't know if he knows, Reti... but I sure know how lucky *I *am!!!


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

ME TOO - saying THANKS for posting updates, Karijo! You took beautiful pictures! Brooklyn is one lucky pij for sure!

Don't be a stranger...keep those updates comin'!!

Mmm, I've never tried giving Squeaks his shower in the sink. I usually just put him in the tub. Sink would sure be easier - IF wetter! LOL


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Hi Karijo, I really loved the pictures of your pigeon Brooklyn (and love the name!)

He looks very content and healthy. I bet he is a joy to have around...enjoy and yes, please more pictures!


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Great photos - that's one lucky pigeon...and two very cute Chihuahuas!


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Brooklyn is looking great, Karijo, and you always seem to get such great photos
of him. Thanks for the tip on the cage source, perhaps a pic of your new 
purchase??

fp


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Your pictures are wonderful Karijo!! Thanks for sharing them with us.  
Brooklyn's *definitely* got it made.  

Cindy


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## Aias (Nov 9, 2006)

*brooklyn's suit and leash*

i have been lobbying sabina (who finally forced me to get my own identity here on pigeon-talk!) on behalf of sir duchess:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/100fires/tags/duchess/
for quite some time now, and tonight, she finally agreed that he is cute and said he could stay if he did something about his poo donations. you mentioned brooklyn's suit, what is this leash thing? you can attach a leash to the suit? and can they fly if the are wearing the suit? 

brooklyn is looking hella sexy!


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Aias said:


> i have been lobbying sabina (who finally forced me to get my own identity here on pigeon-talk!) on behalf of sir duchess:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/100fires/tags/duchess/
> for quite some time now, and tonight, she finally agreed that he is cute and said he could stay if he did something about his poo donations. you mentioned brooklyn's suit, what is this leash thing? you can attach a leash to the suit? and can they fly if the are wearing the suit?
> 
> brooklyn is looking hella sexy!


 Even though you've been here through thick and thin .. welcome to you Aias as your very own self and advocate of Sir Dutchess! Welcome to wedded bliss and the wonderful art of compromise .. may you and Sabina always be able to be "artful"  

Terry

PS .. I don't know a thing about bird diapers aside from what I read here and on other lists .. your post just happened to strike a chord ..


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## karijo (Apr 11, 2006)

Thanks everybody!
I am so glad you all like the photos!


Heh, he's so funny. When he hears the water running and he's in the mood for a bath, there's just NO keeping him out of the sink!
If I'm in the shower and he feels like a bath, well forget privacy. You turn around and there he is, standing in the tub trying to muscle his way under the shower stream. I think he likes it so much because I have one of those large diameter rain-like shower heads? So the water pressure is low. He just gets so into it - I put one hand gently against one side of him and he lifts the wing on the other side to get underneath. Then he sort of, collapses. He just closes his eyes, and just leans into my hand. It so cute, I mean he just completely relaxes his body. Then he wants to switch sides. Adorable.

Oh the BirdDiaper
http://www.flightquarters.com/ can be found here. I got it in red and BK wore it a lot as a young bird. Now he has restricted his Poop Donations to two areas mostly, so I only really put it on him when we're all watching a movie or in the bed and I don't want to get little pidge craps all over bedding or couch! If he hasn't worn it in a while, he goes into real theatrics for the first few minutes, flinging himself all over (so I put him in it and then keep him on the bed so he doesn't fling himself and get hurt or something!). Then he will fly around, land back on the bed, fling himself around some more... repeat. repeat. LOL Then he all of a sudden will land on something else and be like, "Fiiiiine. I'll wear the stupid red suit", and gets to preening and adjusting his feathers under the suit. Then he is fine and will wear it for a few hours (then you have to change the liner inside, it is just a little maxi-pad/panty-liner thing). 

And as for letting him hang out with the chihuahuas and go outdoors - these are NOT things I would advise anyone else to do! Especially unsupervised. Animals are still animals, and of course, unpredictable. At any time one of the dogs could harm BK, or he could decide to fly off and get lost (one of the reasons I have brought him with me on dog walks often so he has learned the neighborhood a little), or he could get eaten by a stray hawk or owl. I take every precaution against these things certainly, but there are still many risks. For us though, the pros outweighed the cons on his current lifestyle, and I am willing to accept full responsibility should something terrible happen... A horrible thought, but something one needs to consider if they have a flighted bird who likes going outdoors, hanging out on the deck, and cuddling up, sleeping, playing, and goofing around with 2 chihuahuas (who for the record seem to love him as much as he loves them, it's totally bizarre).

I just didn't want someone to see my posts and think, hey I should let my bird fly around outside and play with my dogs! It's just the situation (dangerous as it may be) that works here. OK, just wanted to get my disclaimer out there to discourage any unsafe behavior in new bird parents.


I will get some pics of the new pidgey bedroom soon - but this is the cage I got (I am still trying to figure out the best layout inside with his ledges and dishes since he won't use wooden dowel perches. I bought this weirdo sand covered kinda flat-ish giant perch thing for parrots so we'll see if he will sit on it! Otherwise I have these wire ledges that I cushioned with folded hand towels and he sits on those...)
http://www.qualitydiscountcages.com/proddetail.asp?prod=LC%2DGA32620&cat=11

If anyone has any good ideas for setting up a bird cage for pigeon use? Like perches he'll use and not slide off of... I was thinking of wrapping the dowel perch in vet wrap or something. Thanks!


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## Aias (Nov 9, 2006)

thanks for the official welcome terry
 



TAWhatley said:


> Even though you've been here through thick and thin .. welcome to you Aias as your very own self and advocate of Sir Dutchess! Welcome to wedded bliss and the wonderful art of compromise .. may you and Sabina always be able to be "artful"
> 
> Terry
> 
> PS .. I don't know a thing about bird diapers aside from what I read here and on other lists .. your post just happened to strike a chord ..


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## karijo (Apr 11, 2006)

*Sexytime with Brooklyn??*

Well... the other day I was sitting at the computer typing away, not really paying attention to what Brooklyn was up to (mainly because there was a lull in the pinching) until it occured to me he was being entirely TOO well behaved and I looked down to find him engaged in all kinds of wiggly butt malarky on my arm! I stared at him for a moment until I realised what was going on...

SEXYTIME!

Does he need a girlfriend? Besides ME?
I don't want him to be like, deprived or something.
He's already _depraved_...

Other than raging hormones, he is doing fantastic. I'm getting used to his communal bathing policies ("Your Shower is My Shower"), family style dining ("Your Sandwich is My Sandwich"), and Public Restroom Reform ("The World is My Toilet" or "This Crap's for You").

He and the dogs still adore each other, and the boys really look out for him. Sometimes Brooklyn gets into it with the Blue Jay in the backyard, but as soon as the dogs hear that bird they go running out on the deck to back up their little brother. That poor blue jay still can't figure out *what* the heck is going on, how some damn pigeon has his own ferocious hounds (yeah, 6 lb chihuahuas... ferocious), but the two doves who also hang out back there are starting to get keen to the whole situation and have actually been getting braver and braver about perching on the deck when the dogs are out there! I think they want in on this action...

in the attached photo i think it's obvious _nobody_ was doing their homework... i keep telling B'K not to sit so close to the television but he doesn't listen.


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## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

What an absolute Cutie he/she is. Good Luck with this little guy, it looks nice and healthy too. 

Cindy


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

ROFL, Karijo!

I can relate! Even more so since B'KLN is a Blue Bar like Squeaks. Certainly nothing wrong with THEIR male hormones! I, too, am in an "odd couple" relationship. Unless you get a hen of the pigeon kind for him, guess what...you're IT!

How old is B'KLN now? Squeaks goes in and out of mate mode. Currently, he's in "daddy" mode. Cindy (AZWhitefeather) gave me a basket that I lined with a towel. She also gave me a wooden egg. Squeaks will sit 24/7 on his egg until he reverts back to mate mode. He only gets out to eat, poop, drink water from the cat dishes, do a few wing fu exercises and heads back to his egg. Half the time, I'm lifting him, basket, egg and all back and forth between his home and out UNDER his home.

B'KLN'S canine friends are adorable, but make no mistake, of all the canine species, those Chihuahuas can be the terrors of the dog world! Not all pijies are fortunate enough to have their own "guards." I bet he keeps 'em in line too. 

Unfortunately, my cats could USE a guard...from Squeaks! His basic attitude toward them is, "Here, kitty, kitty...make my day!"

Welcome to the "Fur & Feathers" Club!


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

How cute the three of them are.
I don't know too many pijies to have their own body guards 

if you decide to get him a mate he might dump you like a hot potato. Happened to me. he is happy now and he will be happy with a mate, it is your decision to make.

Reti


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## JGregg (Jul 28, 2003)

Heh, sometimes having a hen won't matter! They're just too imprinted.

I did have a hen for a while and she was all into Acid (my male pigeon), she'd even "assume the position" for him. Acid would walk up to her, bite her wing then have sex with a pillow corner (or orange or whatever).


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## karijo (Apr 11, 2006)

hehe

Well, right now mister busybody is flying around the apartment looking for little bits of plant (he's even brought in a few sticks and leaves from outside) and keeps bringing them back into his cage. He seemed like he was getting frustrated trying to find a place for them, so I took a bunch of toilet paper and put it in the corner of the cage, so now he's putting his "finds" on it.

He's building a nest I guess??

Man, he's taking anything he can off the floor!
I don't have to sweep today!

Any tips on good supplies? Would he like hay? string? does someone make like, a nest or something for pidgies? I want to build something so he can have a little sleep bed next to my bed (he likes sleeping on a piled up towel next to my head some nights)... but maybe I need more of a box or something he can make a nest in? What do they like? He better not be expecting me to produce any eggs for him... Where do I get these wooden ones?


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I am sure he would appreciate a bowl for his nest. I use ceramic bowls with a washcloth in it. Wooden bowls are nice too and plastic ones work great cause you can wash them after he is "done".
As for nesting material I use index cards which I cut up in strips and scatter them on the floor. My birds pick them up in lightning speed and build their own nests. It is so much fun to watch them build their nests.
The pigeon supply houses have plastic and wooden eggs.

Reti


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hey karijo, looks like Brooklyn is keeping you busy w/his antics  ...
Here's a link to the pigeon supply houses from our resource section:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=9455

They have 'throw away' nest bowls, plastic ones w/ a plastic mesh bottom
so the nest can breathe, etc. Have at it picking one out. I use shreaded paper from my shredder and sometimes put through colored paper for flyers because they seem to like the festive effect of the coloring. I also have a box of tobacco stems on hand which are pretty inexpensive through the houses and
the pijies like them quite a bit. I put the bowl on a teatray w/food and water and voila--a moblie pigeon home  . Never one poop on the tray! BTW, the 
"Public Restroom Reform ("The World is My Toilet" or "This Crap's for You")", just cracked me up.

fp


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