# What will you get



## Max1170 (Jun 13, 2007)

If you breed a Black cock with a yellow hen?


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## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

Butter on burnt toast.


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## zimmzimm3 (Aug 17, 2007)

philodice said:


> Butter on burnt toast.


LOL  That is really funny!!


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Max1170 said:


> If you breed a Black cock with a yellow hen?


I got this -


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## zimmzimm3 (Aug 17, 2007)

Msfreebird said:


> I got this -


I can't see your picture


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

zimmzimm3 said:


> I can't see your picture


Hey! what happen to it - it was there. Sorry, I'll try again!


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## Max1170 (Jun 13, 2007)

Msfreebird said:


> Hey! what happen to it - it was there. Sorry, I'll try again!


Naaa, dont like it, Its time to find a yellow cock. Thanks for the pic. Max


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## Max1170 (Jun 13, 2007)

philodice said:


> Butter on burnt toast.


I do like that tho


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Max1170 said:


> Naaa, dont like it, Its time to find a yellow cock. Thanks for the pic. Max


LOL - gee thanks, I thought she was kinda (pretty) unique


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*there are many possibilties*

It depends if the black cock has any recessive genes hidden behind the black.

About the only thing that you will know from this mating is that all of the young males will be split for dilute.

There are really endless possibilities.

Cocks carry more genes than hens in regard to color and dilute is one of those situations. Dilute black is dun and dilute recessive red is recessive yellow.

Is your hen recessive yellow or ash yellow?

Need more info on both and you probably won't know until you mate them and see what you get.

Bill


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## Max1170 (Jun 13, 2007)

jbangelfish said:


> It depends if the black cock has any recessive genes hidden behind the black.
> 
> About the only thing that you will know from this mating is that all of the young males will be split for dilute.
> 
> ...


She's ash yellow. I normally like to keep same colors together. I am not one for the splash look. thanks for the info bill


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

Msfreebird said:


> Hey! what happen to it - it was there. Sorry, I'll try again!


What a beautiful bird! I have one, Spike, that looks somewhat similar. The coloring is just lovely. His sister is just a "plain" black pigeon with a bit of gray. I don't know how he came out so pretty like yours.


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## ezemaxima (Jan 12, 2008)

Sorry to be off topic.
Max1170... do you have a bigger pic of your avatar? Is that your bird and what breed is it?....


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## zimmzimm3 (Aug 17, 2007)

Msfreebird said:


> LOL - gee thanks, I thought she was kinda (pretty) unique


I thought she was unique to lol. I really like how she looks.


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## luisrolon (Jan 21, 2005)

If you want to learn about pigeon genetics contact this guy.....he have available for sale a cd with all the info you need about pigeon genetics...

Bob McGuan
513 Derinda St.
Saint Libory, NE 68872
(308) 687-6304
Email: [email protected]


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Do you know the Black's parents?*

If you know what the black cock came from, you have a much better chance of knowing what you would get from this mating.

If he carries no other factors, you would get all ash red young. Black is nothing more than blue with spread factor which spreads the black bars over the entire bird. So blacks are genetically blue. Ash red (or ash yellow) is dominant to blue. If he happens to be split for dilute, they could also produce ash yellows.

There are certainly other possibilities but these are your most likely.

Bill


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*You have bronze grizzle*



Msfreebird said:


> Hey! what happen to it - it was there. Sorry, I'll try again!


While I consider this attractive and I have bronze grizzle in my rollers, I'm trying to figure out how you got this from black and yellow.

Bill


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## Max1170 (Jun 13, 2007)

ezemaxima said:


> Sorry to be off topic.
> Max1170... do you have a bigger pic of your avatar? Is that your bird and what breed is it?....


Yes it is, thats my Dragoon. If you still would like to see a pic of him i can send it to you. Max


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## eric98223 (Aug 4, 2007)

i had a grizzle and a recessive red repeatedly and got a grizzle and a black 3 times straight!! both great flyers like their mom their dad wasent the best always made it home but usually after several days. (even on a 40 mile drop lol)


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

eric98223 said:


> i had a grizzle and a recessive red repeatedly and got a grizzle and a black 3 times straight!! both great flyers like their mom *their dad wasent the best always made it home but usually after several days. *(even on a 40 mile drop lol)


Gosh, I've got some birds JUST LIKE THAT!! If they can't be a RACER, then a HOMER will do.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

jbangelfish said:


> While I consider this attractive and I have bronze grizzle in my rollers, I'm trying to figure out how you got this from black and yellow.
> 
> Bill


I don't know anything about colors. I let my birds choose their own mates. The mother to this (grizzle) bird was solid black with white muffed (?) feet, the father was yellow. I've gotten some very strange colors that I don't know the correct terms for. 








I have no idea what color the 2 birds on the left are. The bird in the middle is "Tootsie" because he looks brown to me. (excuse the picture quality, I'm not good at posting pictures yet) Tootsie's mother was a blue bar, his father was white with a couple of red spots. Neither parent had muffed feet, but Tootsie does. How does that happen?


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*mysteries of pigeon genetics*

Perhaps the bird that you are calling yellow is actually dilute bronze and grizzle, which is sort of orange in pigeon colors. There are so many factors to modify color that I can't begin to keep them all straight.

I have a very good book written by Joe Quinn that has all the answers for me. I know the basic rules but it does get pretty complicated and I refer to the book all the time.

As I begin paying more attention to pigeons again after taking over my son's rollers, I'll get more in tune with it and will remember more of how it works.

The middle bird could be genetically brown, hard to tell from the picture and many ash red shades are brown.

Pigeons are very interesting genetic subjects and the choice of many scientists to study genetics with.

Foot feathers appear to have at least a partial dominance in that a clean leg and a heavily muffed bird will usually produce some foot feathers. How clean legged birds can throw feather legs can only be explained by a recessive gene that one or both of them would carry.

I'll have to do some more reading on that one.

Bill


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## Guest (Apr 11, 2008)

I have a pair that consists of a frill and a tippler and they always throw babies with feathers feets , now the colors range from everything under the sun but that footed feet gene is a strong one I am guessin


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

jbangelfish said:


> Perhaps the bird that you are calling yellow is actually dilute bronze and grizzle, which is sort of orange in pigeon colors. There are so many factors to modify color that I can't begin to keep them all straight.
> 
> I have a very good book written by Joe Quinn that has all the answers for me. I know the basic rules but it does get pretty complicated and I refer to the book all the time.
> 
> ...


His color is a very pale (washed out looking) red, someone told me it was called yellow. (I don't know why - doesn't look yellow to me, lol). His mother, ("Frenchy" a canadian racing pigeon that I rescued, found on the side of the road in southern Maine with a broken wing. I contacted the owner from her band, he said if I nursed her back to health, I could keep her. She was apparently on her way back home to Quebec!), she is red (I think), now I'm not sure.








"Frenchy"


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

LokotaLoft said:


> I have a pair that consists of a frill and a tippler and they always throw babies with feathers feets , now the colors range from everything under the sun but that footed feet gene is a strong one I am guessin


With the exception of my fantails, most of my other pigeons were rescued (siezed) from an abuse and neglect situation by the spca in upstate NH. They were at the shelter for a couple months and nobody wanted them, so I took all of them. So I'm not 100% sure of the breeds. I was told some were homers and tumblers. Some of them are sleek looking with small heads and long beaks, some are heavier looking with rounder heads and very short beaks, some have muffed feet and some have curls on the back of their necks and heads. More and more of the babies are getting the feathered feet. Which is fine with me - I like it!


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## Guest (Apr 11, 2008)

I would call that red too , this would be yellow  http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee115/bvanlanen85/RecessiveYellowCock.jpg


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

LokotaLoft said:


> I would call that red too , this would be yellow  http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee115/bvanlanen85/RecessiveYellowCock.jpg


The father looks like that (in the link), except his head is not that dark. He is the lighter color - all over. So would he be considered yellow?


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## Guest (Apr 11, 2008)

most likely he would be but red and yellow are to shades of the same color one is dilute of the other I have heard so you can get either or.. I have a pair male is yellow ,female is red and they throw one of each most times , the yellows are always females and the reds are males ..to me it doesnt really matter ,thought it seems the hawks around here prefer the yellow ones over the reds


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## Shrek (Apr 2, 2008)

haha can some one tell me the list of colors. I always called your yellow colored birds rust colored. We have lots of them. I need to get you guys a picture of one that we have that we are told is called Carmelo. Its gorgious. That is my fiance's favorite one.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Ash Red or Indigo*



Msfreebird said:


> His color is a very pale (washed out looking) red, someone told me it was called yellow. (I don't know why - doesn't look yellow to me, lol). His mother, ("Frenchy" a canadian racing pigeon that I rescued, found on the side of the road in southern Maine with a broken wing. I contacted the owner from her band, he said if I nursed her back to health, I could keep her. She was apparently on her way back home to Quebec!), she is red (I think), now I'm not sure.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The bird is either ash red (most likely) or indigo which can be nearly indistinguishable from ash red. The only way to prove out indigo is to breed to black and see if you get andalusion (very pretty blue).

Bill


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## eric98223 (Aug 4, 2007)

LokotaLoft said:


> I would call that red too , this would be yellow  http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee115/bvanlanen85/RecessiveYellowCock.jpg


thats what i think of when i hear yellow as well. have also heard it called almond.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Almond is different*

Almond is dark yellowish with black flecks and white. A very pretty pigeon color.

Bill


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