# i got two eggs...need info when they hatch



## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

ok, so i had these parents for months, rescued them as babies, never got a chance to release them, and now its winter in chicago.. s i decided to wait a bit...
in the meantime.. yeah i walked in on them when they laid their first egg.. second came 2 days later.
I raised many baby pigeons.. but never since day one.. i dont plan on taking them away from mom and dad once they hatch.. but i wanna be prepared once they hatch and in the case mom and dad dont know what they doing or neglect the babies.. i wanna jump in.. 
what do i need to know ????????
i just hope it all works out the first few days.. it would be a nerve wreck for me to have to jump in and my babies only 2 days old.. god forbid..
i just wanna be real prepared.
Is there anything i should give mom and dad, as a added supliment or anyting .
babies gonna hatch around christmas.
and no i dont wanna remove the eggs. These are mirracle babies im expecting  they are my only joy in life right now.


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## Paragon Loft (Jun 27, 2009)

for mom and dad make sure they have grit everyday and vitamins onece or twice a week.


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

Are the eggs in a decent nest of some sort. Might want to add some nesting material. Also, are the parents inside, I am assuming(?). Otherwise good food, grit and water.


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## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

Woodnative said:


> Are the eggs in a decent nest of some sort. Might want to add some nesting material. Also, are the parents inside, I am assuming(?). Otherwise good food, grit and water.


yes they are in the house, at first she layed the eggs on the scarf that was on the floor.. then i added a lot o hay that my guinea pig would eat.. they arranged it around pretty good.. i can get branches as well..but i think hay is good.. when babies hatch they have a lot of stuff to grip their feet around.. so we dont end up with splayed leggs


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## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

Paragon Loft said:


> for mom and dad make sure they have grit everyday and vitamins onece or twice a week.


thats taken care of  i added extra stuff when i saw the first egg..made sure second came out well.
i just cant wait till christmas..these eggs are the only thing i talk about at work to people that dont really care lol


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

goga82 said:


> thats taken care of  i added extra stuff when i saw the first egg..made sure second came out well.
> i just cant wait till christmas..these eggs are* the only thing i talk about at work to people that dont really care lol*


Work, family and friends in my case.......pretty sad 
But anyway, congratulations on your little Christmas surprise! I would just make sure you have all the essentials...just in case. And being first time parents, I wouldn't disturb them when the babies first hatch. IF you have to intervene, the bottle feeding method works great for very small babies because you don't have to poke around with their beak or throat and its very natural for them. I've used it with 1 day olds that were abandoned. Good luck and keep us posted


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## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

Msfreebird said:


> Work, family and friends in my case.......pretty sad
> But anyway, congratulations on your little Christmas surprise! I would just make sure you have all the essentials...just in case. And being first time parents, I wouldn't disturb them when the babies first hatch. IF you have to intervene, the bottle feeding method works great for very small babies because you don't have to poke around with their beak or throat and its very natural for them. I've used it with 1 day olds that were abandoned. Good luck and keep us posted


bottle feed?  ohh lord
please explain what kind of a bottle. what kind of a mix? 
im definitly wont interfear but i need to know everything just in case God forbid


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## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

Msfreebird said:


> Work, family and friends in my case.......pretty sad
> But anyway, congratulations on your little Christmas surprise! I would just make sure you have all the essentials...just in case. And being first time parents, I wouldn't disturb them when the babies first hatch. IF you have to intervene, the bottle feeding method works great for very small babies because you don't have to poke around with their beak or throat and its very natural for them. I've used it with 1 day olds that were abandoned. Good luck and keep us posted


and me too.. i forgot the family and friends  i spend most of the time at work..


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

goga82 said:


> ok, so i had these parents for months, rescued them as babies, never got a chance to release them, and now its winter in chicago.. s i decided to wait a bit...
> in the meantime.. yeah i walked in on them when they laid their first egg.. second came 2 days later.
> I raised many baby pigeons.. but never since day one.. i dont plan on taking them away from mom and dad once they hatch.. but i wanna be prepared once they hatch and in the case mom and dad dont know what they doing or neglect the babies.. i wanna jump in..
> what do i need to know ????????
> ...


Just remember these babies will be domestic and need to be kept as pets.. then they will need mates of their own one day when they mature, they will also need vet care if needed.. letting eggs hatch is exciting but in the end you end up with one or two adult pigeons for their lifetime... could be 20 years. so thinking ahead is always good when breeding animals. this pair will have many eggs in their life time as well, unless you want a house full then you will need to use fake eggs for hatch control at some point.. WHEN that is up to you. pigeons lay eggs all the time.. not all or even any need to hatch, but usually it is just because the human attaches themselves to it not really thinking of the outcome and future of the birds.. I only let hatching happen if the future of the babies which one day grown pigeons can be housed here for their lifetime .. not just because a pair layed. so think before breeding. If these eggs do hatch though you will have two nice pet birds for sure as they will be use to you esp if that is your goal.


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## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

mom and dad will be released after the babies are grown.. i'll release the babies too.. i dont see how will they be domesticated.. thats same as if i found them on the streets when they are 5 or 7 days old.. at least in this case i wont be the one raising them.. i dont plan on keeping them as pets i would never do that to a pigeon.. unless its a handicaped bird
and mom n dad r pretty wild..as long as i dont interact with babies they will be fine..i think the ones i hand raise are more domesticated than these will be. others have made it.. and i handled them every day 
and honestly i just asked what to do in the case parents dont know what they are doing, since this is their first nest.. and i wont let them breed in the house no more.. that would mean postponing the realease.. they would ave bee gone around these days if it wasnt for the eggs


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## horseart4u (Jun 16, 2011)

i have a question, how long have you had the parent birds for them to have gotten comfortable and make a nest in your house? and yes these babie will be considered domesticated as they are being born in your house, they will NOT know how to fend for themselves out side in the real wild as they will be growing up in your house. and the parent birds as well, you must have had them for a long time. and another question are the parents brother and sister? if so you may wanna be on the look out for side affects of inbreeding, not saying it will happen but fanciers never breed brother to sister for fear of those reasons usually mother to son or father to daughter, don't ask, but they do it. to me that inbreeding as well..


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## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

horseart4u said:


> i have a question, how long have you had the parent birds for them to have gotten comfortable and make a nest in your house? and yes these babie will be considered domesticated as they are being born in your house, they will NOT know how to fend for themselves out side in the real wild as they will be growing up in your house. and the parent birds as well, you must have had them for a long time. and another question are the parents brother and sister? if so you may wanna be on the look out for side affects of inbreeding, not saying it will happen but fanciers never breed brother to sister for fear of those reasons usually mother to son or father to daughter, don't ask, but they do it. to me that inbreeding as well..


they are not brother and sister.. mom i had for 5-6 monts and dad i had for 8 months.. dad was released 3 or 4 months ago.. and 2 months later i found him in that same park looked as if he got attacked.. so he been back with me last 2 months.. recovered completely...
thing is i havent seen them lay on the eggs much today??? have they gave up or something?


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

goga82 said:


> bottle feed?  ohh lord
> please explain what kind of a bottle. what kind of a mix?
> im definitly wont interfear but i need to know everything just in case God forbid


Just in case you need this..........Or in the future for other rescues
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f20/i...-back-yard-what-do-i-do-56756.html#post615941


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

goga82 said:


> mom and dad will be released after the babies are grown.. i'll release the babies too.. i dont see how will they be domesticated.. thats same as if i found them on the streets when they are 5 or 7 days old.. at least in this case i wont be the one raising them.. i dont plan on keeping them as pets i would never do that to a pigeon.. unless its a handicaped bird
> and mom n dad r pretty wild..as long as i dont interact with babies they will be fine..i think the ones i hand raise are more domesticated than these will be. others have made it.. and i handled them every day
> and honestly i just asked what to do in the case parents dont know what they are doing, since this is their first nest.. and i wont let them breed in the house no more.. that would mean postponing the realease.. they would ave bee gone around these days if it wasnt for the eggs


I have to say if you let these eggs hatch and be raised inside, whether by the parents or you, their chances in the wild are not very good. Even if you don't hand raise them, they will depend on you ( a human) to bring them food. So even if you don't interact with them personally, they still will depend on and trust a human. If the parents are still 'wild' and you plan on releasing them, personally I would take the eggs away.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Msfreebird said:


> I have to say if you let these eggs hatch and be raised inside, whether by the parents or you, their chances in the wild are not very good. Even if you don't hand raise them, they will depend on you ( a human) to bring them food. So even if you don't interact with them personally, they still will depend on and trust a human. If the parents are still 'wild' and you plan on releasing them, personally I would take the eggs away.


Are you saying any pigeon rescued as a squab should not be released back into the wild? I would have thought once in the wild instinct would take over, I agree domestic pigeons should not be released but these are wild birds with wild instincts and should be fine aslong as they are released near a flock they can join up with and learn off. Could be wrong as I have never raised wildies but this is just my understanding. I guess its similar to a penguin rescued from an oil spill being released, I have heard of this a lot and don't really see the difference.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

horseart4u said:


> i have a question, how long have you had the parent birds for them to have gotten comfortable and make a nest in your house? and yes these babie will be considered domesticated as they are being born in your house, they will NOT know how to fend for themselves out side in the real wild as they will be growing up in your house. and the parent birds as well, you must have had them for a long time. and another question are the parents brother and sister? if so you may wanna be on the look out for side affects of inbreeding, not saying it will happen but fanciers *never* breed brother to sister for fear of those reasons usually mother to son or father to daughter, don't ask, but they do it. to me that inbreeding as well..


I have heard of many fanciers putting brother to sister, Technically it is not much different from mother to son or vice versa. Your statement that fanciers *never* put brother to sister is incorrect. It does happen and will continue to happen for many years to come, Not saying I agree just pointing out it does happen


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

NZ Pigeon said:


> Are you saying any pigeon rescued as a squab should not be released back into the wild? I would have thought once in the wild instinct would take over, I agree domestic pigeons should not be released but these are wild birds with wild instincts and should be fine aslong as they are released near a flock they can join up with and learn off. Could be wrong as I have never raised wildies but this is just my understanding. I guess its similar to a penguin rescued from an oil spill being released, I have heard of this a lot and don't really see the difference.


If these babies are hatched and raised in a 'domestic environment', that will be imprinted on them. Even if she 'soft releases' them into the wild, and their lucky enough to hook up with a flock, they will remember and not have full fear of humans. They will be 'domestic raised'.
The big difference is (I don't know the population of where you live), there really is no 'in the wild' in big cities, and even the small towns in the US. If these little guys get hungry, their going to seek out a human...any human. It happens all the time in populated areas even with other rescued baby birds (robins, blue jays, etc). People will be hiking in a park and a blue jay lands on their head! It was rescued and raised by some caring person, then released. They remember that. It would be equivalent to babies being hatched in a 'loft', fed and taken care of, then let out to fly (or race) and get lost. When they get hungry, they'll seek out a human to feed them. Lost 'loft birds' have been known to walk right into someone's house looking for help.
The wildlife center where I get abandoned racers, keeps all the birds covered so that they don't see the humans (rehabbers) walking around near them.


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## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

they really havent een laying on the eggs yesterday.. any time i went to see them.. they were off the eggs???


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

It's much harder on a pigeon who was raised by humans. Many things are learned from the parents and the flock. If they were hand raised, their survival rate goes down. Instincts don't cover everything.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Msfreebird said:


> If these babies are hatched and raised in a 'domestic environment', that will be imprinted on them. Even if she 'soft releases' them into the wild, and their lucky enough to hook up with a flock, they will remember and not have full fear of humans. They will be 'domestic raised'.
> The big difference is (I don't know the population of where you live), there really is no 'in the wild' in big cities, and even the small towns in the US. If these little guys get hungry, their going to seek out a human...any human. It happens all the time in populated areas even with other rescued baby birds (robins, blue jays, etc). People will be hiking in a park and a blue jay lands on their head! It was rescued and raised by some caring person, then released. They remember that. It would be equivalent to babies being hatched in a 'loft', fed and taken care of, then let out to fly (or race) and get lost. When they get hungry, they'll seek out a human to feed them. Lost 'loft birds' have been known to walk right into someone's house looking for help.
> The wildlife center where I get abandoned racers, keeps all the birds covered so that they don't see the humans (rehabbers) walking around near them.


Agreed - I would think they have more chance than a lost domestic pigeon though as they are hardier. Here in Christchurch we have a lot of rockies, I study there flight paths and such, Most the pigeons here live on the cliffs in Sumner ( You may have seen some of these fallen cliffs on the news when we had our massive EQ ) They fly huge distances over the suburbs to the fields. It is very rare here in CHCH to see pigeons on the ground in or near the city, or even within reach, The ones in the city are way up high in the buildings and also fly out to the fields. I realise a lot of cities, New york for example have pigeons that eat around on the ground in the city and look for humans to feed them even, Quite different here hence my ignorance. Just a side note, It is amazing watching the rockies here flying through the suburbs, To avoid wind resistance and stay safe from predators they fly exceptionally low, Below rooftops sometimes, My parents have a two story house on the flightpath and the fly between the house and the tall Aframe garage, It's Quite a sight to look out the window at a flock flying around 60 - 80kmph, is that around 30-40mph? I am still trying to capture this on video, They fly across parks and are about 1 foot above the ground on really windy days, Unbelievable , It really is amazing.



Jay3 said:


> It's much harder on a pigeon who was raised by humans. Many things are learned from the parents and the flock. If they were hand raised, their survival rate goes down. Instincts don't cover everything.


Good point, I assumed it would be similar to penquins or other sea birds but I guess there are not many humans at sea so the birds would learn to seperate themselves easier. 

So on this thread we have someone with rescue pigeons who thinks it would be cruel to keep the pigeons from being wild and a few people that would be against releasing them, Now that I have more information at hand I would say its best to keep them in, I personally think that pigeons are one of the only birds that can be kept but not caged, If you have enough space, let them in and out once they are homed then they are living the same life as a wild pigeon except warmer, better access to food and clean water, and on top of that a human to take care of them if anything goes wrong healthwise. Coolest pets, Shh don't tell my dog, 

Ok so Im done babbling, Thanks guys for informing me on this subject, It is something I have never been involved with but maybe one day I will stumble across a lost or sick feral and take it in.


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## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

they are done with eggs... really did anybody even read what i said???
they gave up on the eggs, and ya'll were still here talking about how i shouldnt release them.. thats beside the point.. i think i would have know whats best for them if they hatched..
i think u guys jinxed the eggs 
and nobody really answered my question .. what to feed the babies with once they hatch in the case mom and dad do the exact the same thing to them as they did to the eggs..
everybody was so concerned whats gonna happend when they grow up.. all this made them never be born in the first place..
i never asked if i should release.. i never ask that question.. im the best judge here cause im with them.. its not like i been doing this since yesterday
thank u guys for all you "help"


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

goga82 said:


> they are done with eggs... really did anybody even read what i said???
> they gave up on the eggs, and ya'll were still here talking about how i shouldnt release them.. thats beside the point.. i think i would have know whats best for them if they hatched..
> i think u guys jinxed the eggs
> and nobody really answered my question .. what to feed the babies with once they hatch in the case mom and dad do the exact the same thing to them as they did to the eggs..
> ...


Come on now, Jinxed them.....

Sometimes nature chooses whats best.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I don't see the point in even wanting the eggs to hatch to begin with.. too many feral pigeons need help out there.. why make more.?.. If you are going to rehab feral pigeons it is not wise to breed them also. and yes feral means from domestic stock..so if these eggs which are not being layed on and I did read that.. and did hatch, they would be considers domestic as they were hatched in captivity. in other words they would be NO different than mine in my loft I let hatch here from my captive domestic pigeons. If you wanted to raise and keep pigeons then letting them have babies is pretty much normal.... IF you are going to keep them as pets. Im sure this pair when released will have plenty of young together when they get out in the wild and the babies will not be imprinted.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

spirit wings said:


> I don't see the point in even wanting the eggs to hatch to begin with.. too many feral pigeons need help out there.. why make more.?.. If you are going to rehab feral pigeons it is not wise to breed them also. and yes feral means from domestic stock..so if these eggs which are not being layed on and I did read that.. and did hatch, they would be considers domestic as they were hatched in captivity. in other words they would be NO different than mine in my loft I let hatch here from my captive domestic pigeons. If you wanted to raise and keep pigeons then letting them have babies is pretty much normal.... IF you are going to keep them as pets. Im sure this pair when released will have plenty of young together when they get out in the wild and the babies will not be imprinted.


They would be different to yours. A wild pigeon released has a better chance of survival than a lost domestic pigeon. They have hardier bloodlines and will still have some natural instincts that a domestic would not due to years of being bred in captivity, I agree with everything you say apart from the part where you state they are *no* different, They are different.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

NZ Pigeon said:


> They would be different to yours. A wild pigeon released has a better chance of survival than a lost domestic pigeon. They have hardier bloodlines and will still have some natural instincts that a domestic would not due to years of being bred in captivity, I agree with everything you say apart from the part where you state they are *no* different, They are different.


There are no wild pigeons here in the USA, they are all from domestic stock.. they are feral.. If hatched in captivity they are domestic again..just like their ancesters. there were no pigeons here long ago. yes there are generations hatched out in the wild..but they are all from the same back ground and not to mention the thousands of race birds and fancy pigeons that join their feral flocks that intergrate their bloodlines as well. If you want to find a true wild pigeon go to Europe and see if you can find any left on the cliffs near the sea.. those are not here in the USA. If you breed them in captivity then they are the responsiblity of the human.. just as a cat would be... I would not let a feral cat that I was caring for in my home have kittens just to turn them out again.. same thing.


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## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

NZ Pigeon said:


> They would be different to yours. A wild pigeon released has a better chance of survival than a lost domestic pigeon. They have hardier bloodlines and will still have some natural instincts that a domestic would not due to years of being bred in captivity, I agree with everything you say apart from the part where you state they are *no* different, They are different.


i really see no difference ( if they hatched) and i released them.. when they were 2.5 or 3 months old.. it is the same as if i found them somewhere fallen out of the nest and i raised them and i released them.. 
i agree with u NZ pigeon..sometimes people that have domestic pigeons compare them to the ferals..and we both know they are different..
i would worry less about these babies if hatched. and i always worry more about the ones i raised and released ..
hand raised are more imprinted.. but it really takes them a week to get where they need to be. street wise and what not.. they follow the flock..and i never consider them domestic just cause they grew up n somebodys home..

but hey everybody has their own oppinion. Right ?

and stuff happends.. same as with these eggs.. i would let them have the same opportunity as i gave to the parents.. live and be free at the end..


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## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

spirit wings said:


> There are no wild pigeons here in the USA, they are all from domestic stock.. they are feral.. If hatched in captivity they are domestic again..just like their ancesters. there were no pigeons here long ago. yes there are generations hatched out in the wild..but they are all from the same back ground and not to mention the thousands of race birds and fancy pigeons that join their feral flocks that intergrate their bloodlines as well. If you want to find a true wild pigeon go to Europe and see if you can find any left on the cliffs near the sea.. those are not here in the USA. If you breed them in captivity then they are the responsiblity of the human.. just as a cat would be... I would not let a feral cat that I was caring for in my home have kittens just to turn them out again.. same thing.


eveybody has their own oppinion.. 
i on the other hand would trust a cat to survive as well.. even if she lived with me and somehow got out.. instincts kick in.. so would her kittens..
i come from a differnt county.. so when it comes to animal instincts thats were the oppinions go separate ways..
Im just different... 
just cause a feral hatched in the warmth of the house that will not erase 300 years of his ancestors being feral...

And yes u are right pigeos in europe are mostly one color.. all look the same way .. here u see them in whole lot of colors..


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

goga82 said:


> i really see no difference ( if they hatched) and i released them.. when they were 2.5 or 3 months old.. it is the same as if i found them somewhere fallen out of the nest and i raised them and i released them..
> i agree with u NZ pigeon..sometimes people that have domestic pigeons compare them to the ferals..and we both know they are different..
> i would worry less about these babies if hatched. and i always worry more about the ones i raised and released ..
> hand raised are more imprinted.. but it really takes them a week to get where they need to be. street wise and what not.. they follow the flock..and i never consider them domestic just cause they grew up n somebodys home..
> ...


hon.. it is not an opinion it is a fact.. pigeons hatched and raised in captivity are special and imprinted.. they would have to have a soft release at the least.. and yes they are different .. if hatch inside a home of a human, not sure what you do not get about that. therefore you should let them NOT hatch ..this pair then when they are released their future babies will not be imprinted. All good rehabbers know this information..that is why they have a license.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

goga82 said:


> they are done with eggs... really did anybody even read what i said???
> they gave up on the eggs, and ya'll were still here talking about how i shouldnt release them.. thats beside the point.. i think i would have know whats best for them if they hatched..
> i think u guys jinxed the eggs
> *and nobody really answered my question .. what to feed the babies with once they hatch in the case mom and dad do the exact the same thing to them as they did to the eggs.*.
> ...


I answered your question.......Did you check the LINK?


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

goga82 said:


> eveybody has their own oppinion..
> i on the other hand would trust a cat to survive as well.. even if she lived with me and somehow got out.. instincts kick in.. so would her kittens..
> i come from a differnt county.. so when it comes to animal instincts thats were the oppinions go separate ways..
> Im just different...
> ...


LOL, If it hatches in the warmth of the house........it's NOT feral anymore.
Feral means 'Born in the wild'


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

goga82 said:


> eveybody has their own oppinion..
> i on the other hand would trust a cat to survive as well.. even if she lived with me and somehow got out.. instincts kick in.. so would her kittens..
> i come from a differnt county.. so when it comes to animal instincts thats were the oppinions go separate ways..
> Im just different...
> ...


In any country... turning out feral animals born in captivity back to surviving ON THE STREETS is just wrong esp after letting them have more!... too many hurt and sick feral animals on the streets already...WHY ADD MORE!


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## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

spirit wings said:


> hon.. it is not an opinion it is a fact.. pigeons hatched and raised in captivity are special and imprinted.. they would have to have a soft release at the least.. and yes they are different .. if hatch inside a home of a human, not sure what you do not get about that. therefore you should let them NOT hatch ..this pair then when they are released their future babies will not be imprinted. All good rehabbers know this information..that is why they have a license.


all good rehabers put animals to sleep when it shows that they have to be keept for months and months with a lot of tender care.. 
a good rehabber would have put mom and dad to sleep a long time ago.. without giving them a chance..
both parents have been to the exotic vets.. dad was at a real rehabber who was also an exotic vet.. who when he saw him the first minute without even thinking he suggested well the best thing is we put him to sleep.. 
real rehabbers.. dont keep the one's they cant release.. they put them to sleep....
rehabers take donations.. to care for what they can.. I use my own wallet and yet sems that i know more about who can and cant survive.. cause like i said rehabbers would have put half of the ones i rescued that had even a smallest problem they would have been put to sleep..
and i dont know wht does it seem liek u are arguing with me here..
real rehabbers?? really?? i never said im a rehabber.. i do this from the darn heart... but i guess if i called my self a rehabber i would have know beter..

a real rehabber wouldnt keep mom and dad.. to the point where they are even sexually mature.. 
I DID!
what that makes me???
a bad person? i got to have an argument on line..?? on a pigeon talk
defent myself??
I stand by my oppinion.. and nothing can change it..
History of pigeons blah blah blha.. even my parakeets knows the history of pigeons...
if all the ferals are so domesticated.. maybe we should just catch them all and put tem in the cages where they can eat till they pass out..

im out of this convesation......


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## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

spirit wings said:


> In any country... turning out feral animals born in captivity back to surviving ON THE STREETS is just wrong esp after letting them have more!... too many hurt and sick feral animals on the streets already...WHY ADD MORE!


yeah u right.. too many animals are free in many countries... exept in america..
here they will catch a feral cat.. i worked in humane society that wasnt really humane..
stupid people would catch a feral cat.. that was doing well on its own.. people would set the traps.. catch the cats.. most of them would be put to sleep in humane society.. yeah..
same with the dogs
only in united states do animals get put to sleep cause being feral is a sin here it seems..
at least in oter countries.. all over the worls to be exact.. they roam around.. cats hunt.. and people take care of dogs..


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

goga82 said:


> all good rehabers put animals to sleep when it shows that they have to be keept for months and months with a lot of tender care..
> a good rehabber would have put mom and dad to sleep a long time ago.. without giving them a chance..
> both parents have been to the exotic vets.. dad was at a real rehabber who was also an exotic vet.. who when he saw him the first minute without even thinking he suggested well the best thing is we put him to sleep..
> real rehabbers.. dont keep the one's they cant release.. they put them to sleep....
> ...


too bad you need to learn more. breeding just "because" it is fun for you is not what rehabbers are all about... and breeding a rescued feral pair in your home only to let them out on the streets again is about as careless as I have ever heard..sorry..but it is true. nothing personal..just factual.. no harm intended and I do admire your care of your birds. take care.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

spirit wings said:


> There are *no* wild pigeons here in the USA, they are all from domestic stock.. they are feral.. If hatched in captivity they are domestic again..just like their ancesters. there were no pigeons here long ago. yes there are generations hatched out in the wild..but they are all from the same back ground and not to mention the thousands of race birds and fancy pigeons that join their feral flocks that intergrate their bloodlines as well. If you want to find a true wild pigeon go to Europe and see if you can find any left on the cliffs near the sea.. those are not here in the USA. If you breed them in captivity then they are the responsiblity of the human.. just as a cat would be... I would not let a feral cat that I was caring for in my home have kittens just to turn them out again.. same thing.


Once again I think you are making false statements, You say there are *no* wild pigeons/rock doves in the USA.... Don't believe it, Here in CHCH, NZ we have plenty of true rock doves on our cliffs. I'm sure you have atleast some too. I agree that the flocks have been integrated and there are some domestic bloodlines out there but sorry I can't accept that you have no True rock doves anywhere in the USA.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Msfreebird said:


> LOL, If it hatches in the warmth of the house........it's NOT feral anymore.
> *Feral means 'Born in the wild'*


Thats not true


fe·ral
1    [feer-uhl, fer-] Show IPA 

adjective 
1. 
existing in a natural state, as animals or plants; not domesticated or cultivated; wild. 

2. 
having *reverted* to the wild state, as from domestication: a pack of feral dogs roaming the woods. 

3. 
of or characteristic of wild animals; ferocious; brutal.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

NZ Pigeon said:


> Once again I think you are making false statements, You say there are *no* wild pigeons/rock doves in the USA.... Don't believe it, Here in CHCH, NZ we have plenty of true rock doves on our cliffs. I'm sure you have atleast some too. I agree that the flocks have been integrated and there are some domestic bloodlines out there but sorry I can't accept that you have no True rock doves anywhere in the USA.


We don't....Rock Doves are not native to this country, and not even recognized. That is why it is so hard to get medical help for them here.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

goga82 said:


> yeah u right.. too many animals are free in many countries... exept in america..
> here they will catch a feral cat.. i worked in humane society that wasnt really humane..
> stupid people would catch a feral cat.. that was doing well on its own.. people would set the traps.. catch the cats.. most of them would be put to sleep in humane society.. yeah..
> same with the dogs
> ...


Cats and dogs cause a lot more damage than a pigeon would. Cats here in NZ kill our native birds, Tuis, wood pigeons ETC. I disagree with letting cats go in the wild and dogs, I have my doubts about whether it is best for the pigeon to be released but atleast they only hurt the farmers by eating their crops, And maybe take a little of the food supply for other native birds but they hardly cause any harm as a whole


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## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

I put the eggs in the fridge  to keep them as long as i ca.. those were my first eggs fro two pigeons that im crazy about.. they been thry so much.. those eggs were just a mirracle aggs for me.. knowing that mom and dad almost died .. well dad almost 3 times


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

NZ Pigeon said:


> Thats not true
> 
> 
> fe·ral
> ...


LOL......I'm not going back and forth with this. We seem to have a 'country' barrier. Here in the US, Feral means 'born wild', or 'in the wild'. Cat's......been domesticated for thousands of years. Cat's born in the wild here are considered Feral. But there are organizations that trap them or their babies and try to place them in homes.
If they are born 'in a home', they are not considered feral. If they are born in a home and released out in the wild.....they are considered Abandoned. Same goes for pigeons....they are not native here. They were brought here as pets, then abandoned........turning into ferals.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Msfreebird said:


> We don't....Rock Doves are not native to this country, and not even recognized. That is why it is so hard to get medical help for them here.


Im not saying they are native but you said you have none, Im just saying i'm sure some have been introduced. I agree that lots of them are crossed with all sorts of fancy but technically they all derived from the Rock Dove / Pigeon anyway and have most likely reverted back to the wild form.

This site agrees and its the first one I have read

I qoute

" Where are the doves coming from? Some dove species found across North America have been introduced. The Rock Dove (Columba livia), the common city pigeon, was introduced from Europe more than 200 years ago. "

Source: http://www.birdsource.org/Features/Doves/index.html


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Msfreebird said:


> LOL......I'm not going back and forth with this. We seem to have a 'country' barrier. Here in the US, Feral means 'born wild', or *'in the wild'*. Cat's......been domesticated for thousands of years. Cat's born in the wild here are considered Feral. But there are organizations that trap them or their babies and try to place them in homes.
> If they are born 'in a home', they are not considered feral. If they are born in a home and released out in the wild.....they are considered Abandoned.



I agree that feral means born wild or in the wild, The other post said it meant born wild. that is not true, And also I used a US dictionary site to find this defnition so Im not sure what you mean by a Country Barrier. Feral means the same thing all over the world. I am just saying that your statement " feral means - Born in the wild " Is incorrect, That is not what it means but its your intepretation of it. Quite a difference


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

goga82 said:


> I put the eggs in the fridge  to keep them as long as i ca.. those were my first eggs fro two pigeons that im crazy about.. they been thry so much.. those eggs were just a mirracle aggs for me.. knowing that mom and dad almost died .. well dad almost 3 times


Are you keeping them fresh so you can eat them? This is the only reason I could see for putting them in the fridge....


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

NZ Pigeon said:


> *I agree that feral means born wild or in the wild, Your other post said it meant born wild. that is not true*, And also I used a US dictionary site to find this defnition so Im not sure what you mean by a Country Barrier. Feral means the same thing all over the world.* I am just saying that your statement " feral means - Born in the wild " Is incorrect*, That is not what it means but its your intepretation of it. Quite a difference


 I'm scratching my head.......


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## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

NZ Pigeon said:


> Are you keeping them fresh so you can eat them? This is the only reason I could see for putting them in the fridge....



no lol i will not eat them.. i will preserve them.. u know how people keep easter eggs.. for a long time.. the best decorated egg used to stay in my house for years and years..
thats what im gonna do to these two.. just keep them


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Ya know why many capture and kill feral cats in this country? Not to be mean. You think they are doing fine on their own, but that just isn't true. They starve, live in the cold during winter. Go without medical help when they are sick. The females have litter after litter until it just wears them out, weakens them and kills them. They just keep bring more babies into that kind of life. It is kinder to take their lives humanely and stop the suffering, and stop the breeding that brings yet more babies into the world to keep the suffering going. But there are people and agencies that do catch them, spay and neuter them, and then release them back to the wild. At least that way, they don't bring more kittens into a horrible way of life. Just turning your back on the problem and ignoring it doesn't fix anything.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Msfreebird said:


> LOL, If it hatches in the warmth of the house........it's NOT feral anymore.
> *Feral means 'Born in the wild'*





Msfreebird said:


> I'm scratching my head.......


You said feral means Born in the wild so I provided you with the correct definition of the word so in future you understand it is not exclusive to animals born in the wild. A dog or cat released into the wild becomes Feral. Not sure why this would have you scratching your head. Its simple.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

goga82 said:


> no lol i will not eat them.. i will preserve them.. u know how people keep easter eggs.. for a long time.. the best decorated egg used to stay in my house for years and years..
> thats what im gonna do to these two.. just keep them


You could blow them out and decorate them. Then they will not go rotten and you could put them on the mantle


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