# Constipated pigeon?



## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

Hi everyone  
I haven't been here in a while, but was wondering if you guys have ever had a constipated bird? I think one of mine is.

First, here is a little bit about her: 
She is about 2 years old, single, but lays eggs once a month. She takes care of her nest by herself. I give her liquid calcium in her water, vitamins in her seeds, and I put her water and food bowls right next to her nest. I do this because she doesn't like to get up to eat or drink but does leave the nest a few times during the day to poop, but does not poop overnight. 

On Saturday morning she abandoned her eggs/nest, which she had been sitting on for 19 days. I noticed that she had a little bit of trouble pooping, but I thought it was because she had been holding it during the night. But this continued during the day and it's still doing it today (Sunday). So I was wondering if any of you know what it could be? and if you know what can I give her.

This is what she does when she is going to poop: She stops what she is doing, walks backward but nothing comes out, so she goes around in circles and then crouches down a little and then poops. She then moves her tail up and down a little bit (like when they lay eggs) and poops a tiny bit more. Today I even noticed that she pulled some poop off from her butt using her beak. I am not sure if the poop was stuck to her butt feathers and she cleaned it off with the beak, or if she pulled the poop out of her butt. And I think she has been doing this throughout the day because I've been seeing dry poop on her beak even after I clean it up. Poop is ok looking, not as solid as it always is, but I noticed there is a little extra urates on it. She isn't pooping as often as she does. 

Other than this she is ok. She is eating and drinking. She even took a bath. Although there are times when she looks like she doesn't feel well and wants to be left alone. 

Any advice/suggestions is appreciated! 

Thanks so much!


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Try giving her only acv water for a day and see if that helps. I assume she is getting grit? Also feel if her crop is empty in the mornings.


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

Marina B said:


> Try giving her only acv water for a day and see if that helps. I assume she is getting grit? Also feel if her crop is empty in the mornings.


Thank you for your reply! A few hours after I posted here, my pigeon could not poop anymore, she was trying so hard that she developed a prolapsed cloaca. I was told to take her to a vet ASAP but because it was a Sunday night, I unfortunately could not find any  so I will take her first thing in the morning. The good thing is that once she stops trying to push the poop out, the cloaca goes back inside.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Hi Jenny, when I read your first post (troubling in pooping, tail moving up and down, dirty beak, monthly eggs, etc) I immediately thought about a cloacal prolapse because my pigeon Londo had it last October (she was egg bound). I wanted to reply earlier but here it's the first day of "freedom" after the lockdown so I have many things to do... Sorry 😞... 

I imagine that probably your pigeon's cloaca is going outside and inside, you know, like a "yo-yos" (Londo's cloaca initially stayed outside for really long periods then it started to seem a "yo-yos" ). 

Well, my vet explained me a new method alternative to surgery (he is against surgery because he considers it too dangerous and risky). This method gave excellent results even with Londo. It is based on daily massages combined with the use of some products (like paraffin oil, etc). 
It's a bit boring and takes time but, as I said, the results are excellent and the treatment is non-invasive. 

If you are interested in it, feel free to ask, I would be really glad to explain you everything. If you want, I can post also some photos.


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

Colombina said:


> Hi Jenny, when I read your first post (troubling in pooping, tail moving up and down, dirty beak, monthly eggs, etc) I immediately thought about a cloacal prolapse because my pigeon Londo had it last October (she was egg bound). I wanted to reply earlier but here it's the first day of "freedom" after the lockdown so I have many things to do... Sorry 😞...
> 
> I imagine that probably your pigeon's cloaca is going outside and inside, you know, like a "yo-yos" (Londo's cloaca initially stayed outside for really long periods then it started to seem a "yo-yos" ).
> 
> ...


Hi, Im sorry for my late reply, I have been so busy with my sick pigeon. Vet did not recommend any surgery (yet) because we still don't know the cause of the constipation. They just saw some swelling near the vent area and are unsure what it is, but hopefully we will have final results tomorrow. 

My pigeon is still prolapsing like a "yo-yo" every time she poops though  and it's so sad to see her like that, so please do post or PM me what your vet recommended and I will try it. Thank you so much for your help!!


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Don't worry, unfortunately I have many problems so I'm too really busy and late with my reply...

Even Londo had difficulties in pooping, the vet explained me that the problem was originated by the prolapse.

Well, you need:

- paraffin oil;

- a disinfectant similar to Dermidine spray 

https://www.mplabo.eu/en/our-products/skin-cleanser/dermidine-spray-dermidine-spray/

- a cream similar to Dermaflon

https://www.dietvet.com/en/product/...m-for-cats-dogs-and-horses-30-g.html?page=all

- cotton pads, q-tips and disposable gloves (in case you need to replace the cloaca back).

If you have an antibiotic cream, keep it on hand too (when needed, I used cortanmycétine cream).

The therapy is based on daily massages, you have to do them twice a day (about 10/15 minutes twice a day).
You need to remove the feathers on the vent area (around the cloaca).
As the cloaca of your bird is like a yo-yos, you have to massage the area when the cloaca is inside (at the beginning Londo's cloaca stayed outside for long periods so I had to gently put it back before starting the massage. If needed I can explain how to do it).
Each time you need to clean the area with the disinfectant (you can use a cotton pad), apply the cream and then start the massage. It's a kind of physiotherapy, you need to stimulate with your fingers the muscles contraction in the area. I can post some photos so you can see what you have to do with your fingers and try to post a video. After the massage, you have to apply with the q-tip a bit of paraffin oil on the cloaca, it will help in pooping. 

It's a bit boring method, it takes times (in my case, about 2 months...) but the results are excellent.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Don't know if this might help. What if you mix a bit of olive oil in with her seeds?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

If she does have a prolapse, she will need a couple of stitches to hold it in. Other methods seldom work for long, in my experience. The important thing is to not let it dry out. You can put Preparation H on the area and push it back inside. You can do that a couple of times a day.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

In my personal experience and in my vet experience the massage method works well, even in long term. 

Yesterday I didn't explain how to put it back and what you have to do because, about what you said, she put it inside on her own. If needed, I can explain it. I can start to say that my vet gave me dermidine spray because it is perfect for keeping the cloaca moisturized (as I told you, at the beginning Londo's cloaca stayed outside for long periods, even for days, so I had to not let it dry out. I had to put it back twice or three times a day). I also used paraffin oil directly on the cloaca (so not just externally). Anyway, if needed I can explain you everything.


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

Colombina said:


> Don't worry, unfortunately I have many problems so I'm too really busy and late with my reply...
> 
> Even Londo had difficulties in pooping, the vet explained me that the problem was originated by the prolapse.
> 
> ...


wow this sounds great! I will definitely give it a try. Did Londo's cloaca bleed a little every time she tried to poop? mine does and it scares me a little  Has Londo tried to lay eggs during this time? how did she do? was she able to lay even with the prolapsed cloaca? my bird is supposed to lay in the next week and Im scared I might lose her. 

I finally got the results from the xrays the vet took of my bird, but there is still no explanation why she is having a hard time pooping, they said there is no blockage so they cannot know for sure. In the meantime I got a lot of random medications that I don't think are doing anything to her 




Colombina said:


> In my personal experience and in my vet experience the massage method works well, even in long term.
> 
> Yesterday I didn't explain how to put it back and what you have to do because, about what you said, she put it inside on her own. If needed, I can explain it. I can start to say that my vet gave me dermidine spray because it is perfect for keeping the cloaca moisturized (as I told you, at the beginning Londo's cloaca stayed outside for long periods, even for days, so I had to not let it dry out. I had to put it back twice or three times a day). I also used paraffin oil directly on the cloaca (so not just externally). Anyway, if needed I can explain you everything.


How did Londo poop when the cloaca stayed outside for long periods of time? it sounds scary  my bird's comes out when she poops and then goes back in, although there are times when I help push it in. Did Londo have a hard time pooping? like straining and stuff like that?


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

Marina B said:


> Don't know if this might help. What if you mix a bit of olive oil in with her seeds?


Thank you! olive oil was the very first thing I tried when she got constipated and a few hours later she could not poop at all and that is when she got the prolapse  he cloaca goes back in after she poops, and out when she poops again.


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

Charis said:


> If she does have a prolapse, she will need a couple of stitches to hold it in. Other methods seldom work for long, in my experience. The important thing is to not let it dry out. You can put Preparation H on the area and push it back inside. You can do that a couple of times a day.


Thank you! her cloaca goes back on its own. She only has the problem when she poops because she is straining. After she is done it goes back in. I already took her to 2 vets and they don't know the cause of it  they just said there is a lot of swelling near the vent area, but there is no blockage. If they do the stitches do you think it will work even if she keeps straining when she poops? is there a risk of ripping and bleeding?

I was thinking she may have canker in the intestines, you are a very well known rehabber, do you know if this type of canker causes straining when pooping?


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

I attach a few photos of Londo's cloaca so you can compare it with the one of your bird (the number one is the first photo I took of the prolapsed cloaca). 

The vet made an injection for hormones so she didn't lay eggs for about three months. Then she laid them twice (January) , the cloaca partially went out. I made again the massage therapy, the problem was fixed quickly. Then no eggs. No prolapses. I am really careful to avoid any mating with her husband Pulcino 😂.

Yes, at the beginning she had big difficulties in pooping. Yes, straining. The vet explained me that the problem was originated by the prolapse. I put paraffin oil, I also had to help her with a q-tip (sometimes even with my fingers... I know, it's disgusting 🤢.) . No, it didn't bleed when she tried to poop (there was a bit of blood on the egg that she laid when she was egg-bound. The egg caused the prolapse. I had to make a warm bath to help her laying). Externally there was no any swelling but as you can see by the pics the cloaca was red and swollen. The vet gave me an antibiotic cream (in add to Dermaflon cream) and an oral antibiotic (I gave just a round of oral antibiotic, it helped).
As you can see by pics there was some liquid (mixed with dermidine, paraffin oil and cream). Each time I had to clean carefully before starting to massage. 

In case you want to opt for surgery I'm going to explain what my vet told me. He explained me that this kind of operation is risky and difficult (you know, the vet must be really precise/accurate). After surgery, the bird must follow a specific diet (you know, a soft food/liquid diet plus paraffin oil by beak). The poops must be "soft" to avoid ripping. He also said that surgery could not fix the problem. I mean the cloaca could prolapse again. I heard about pigeons who needed more than one operation. 

Personally Londo and I are really satisfied by this method: I am happy to see her healthy and happy, she is happy to be healthy and having a normal life 😊. 

Keep us updated!


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

Colombina said:


> I attach a few photos of Londo's cloaca so you can compare it with the one of your bird (the number one is the first photo I took of the prolapsed cloaca).
> 
> The vet made an injection for hormones so she didn't lay eggs for about three months. Then she laid them twice (January) , the cloaca partially went out. I made again the massage therapy, the problem was fixed quickly. Then no eggs. No prolapses. I am really careful to avoid any mating with her husband Pulcino 😂.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much, you have been so helpful! and you give me hope that my pigeon can make it just like yours. I think I will have to ask about the hormone so that my bird won't lay until all this is resolved. 

And I had no idea that the prolapse can continue even after surgery! I thought this surgery was easy and would last a long time. But I guess not. Thank you for sharing all this info with me!


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

I hope that my experience can help your bird! Honestly I was too really worried and scared...

I have two vets: a woman who is a good doctor (she helped me a lot when my pigeon Caterina got yeasts) and a man who is an excellent surgeon (he put a "spike" into the leg of my pigeon Fulmine when she broke it. She walks perfectly like a "normal" pigeon. You should see her. He also succesfully operated other birds). Even if he is an excellent surgeon he is against this kind of operation (I would have paid him more for it!), yesterday I explained you why.

I also talked to a friend of mine who is a volunteer (she rescues pigeons, cats, etc). She told me that she tried many times surgery in cases of cloacal prolapse but it always happened again..If you read French I can pm you her emails. 

I'm giving you all these informations so you can get your own informed decision. 

Does your pigeon love drinking anything in particular (like ACV water or something else)? Londo loves ACV water. So I gave it more often than usual (normally I give it twice a week). More water helps in pooping. 

I attach a photo of Londo, I took it today. As you can see everything is ok (btw the feathers are also more beautiful than before 😊 ).


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

Hi everyone,
just wanted to do an update on my bird: her prolapse started to get worse, she was doing it more frequently and her cloaca was staying out longer. I took her to the vet again and this time they were able to identify the problem, turns out she had egg yolk stuck in her oviduct, she was unable to push it out which made her strain and prolapse. The vet removed it and now she is doing better. She did not need any type of surgery. 

Just wanted to share this here in case someone ever has the same problem! 

Thank you everyone who helped! especially to Colombina.


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## Spencer (Jan 16, 2020)

👍🏻


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Thanks for the update!

I'm really glad to hear that she is doing better 😊 ! I know that a egg yolk stuck in the oviduct is a serious condition so I'm really happy to know that everything is ok, that's a great news!


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