# need to save a bird urgent help plz



## texasmk4 (Apr 17, 2007)

i noticed this morning that my bird was not acting normal i seperated that bird and took some pictures of the birds and the poop can someone please tell me what is wrong with my bird and what i need to do to get her fine???? any suggestion would be appreciated.


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## texasmk4 (Apr 17, 2007)

she also did'nt eat anything since this morning can someone please tell me what i need to do to save her life?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

It looks like egg material to me. 
Have ther been any other poops today? If so what do they look like?
Have you felt her crop for food?
Does she have a source of calcium available?
Do you have a heating pad?
Do you have an Avian vet available to you?


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## texasmk4 (Apr 17, 2007)

i don't know about the avian vet, i do have a heating pad i just checked her crop and its empty, there aren't any other poops ever since i seperated her.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

You need to keep her warm.
Put the heating pad in the cage and put a towel over the heating pad and turn it on to the low setting. 
How long has it been since she layed an egg?
Do you have any hand feeding formula?
Do you have antibotics?
Do you think she has been drinking any water?


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## texasmk4 (Apr 17, 2007)

Charis said:


> You need to keep her warm.
> Put the heating pad in the cage and put a towel over the heating pad and turn it on to the low setting.
> How long has it been since she layed an egg?
> Do you have any hand feeding formula?
> ...



it has only been a month since i bought her she has'nt layed any eggs yet, i don't have any hand feeding forumla on me nor any antibiotics i placed an order of some baytril and metronidizole earlier today.. she's drinking water but not eating anything is there anything i can feed her for tonight???


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

You can soak a good quality dry dog or cat food in water until soft and feed pieces of that to the bird. You can also use human baby cereal as a formula in a pinch and syringe or eye-dropper that to her.

If she is egg bound, the supplemental heat is very important. ASSuming she is egg bound then getting some additional calcium in her will help. That can be easily done by dissolving a TUMS and syringing the solution to her though a "purer" form of calcium would be better. You might be able to find calcium gluconate at your drug store.

Terry


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I'm assuming you are in Texas, right?
Do you have a store that's open late?
I'm thinking just for tonight, you could pick up some jars of baby cereal. Rice or rice and applesauce mix. If they don't have jars, you could buy a box of baby rice cereal.
Is this possible? Do you know how to hand feed?


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## texasmk4 (Apr 17, 2007)

i have baby rice cereal and baby oat meal cereal which one would work???


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## texasmk4 (Apr 17, 2007)

don't know how to hand feed do you also want me to buy a syringe from walgreen and yes i do have a drug store right by my place.. I am in tx. do i also need to give her tums or should i purchase the real calcium??


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I'd go for the rice. Do you have Tums?


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## texasmk4 (Apr 17, 2007)

i don't have tums but i can go purchase one, how and how much do i need to feed her??


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Yes, buy a syringe. I don't know what they will have available but the bigger the better. Take what ever they have, though. Tell them what you need it for.


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## texasmk4 (Apr 17, 2007)

i just called my local walgreens store and they don't have calcium gluconate should i go purchase tums along with the syringe?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

If there are no syringes to be had, get a baby teething spoon. LOng handle and the spoon part is small.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Tums, yes.


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## texasmk4 (Apr 17, 2007)

i just got a syringe and a pack of tums what do i do next?? how much do i have to feed her and do i feed her first then give her tums?? do i have to break the tums a part and give it to her 1 tablet or more than one??


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

How big is the syringe?


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## texasmk4 (Apr 17, 2007)

1 teaspoon 5 ml


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Do you know how to open her mouth?


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## texasmk4 (Apr 17, 2007)

yes, do i fill the syringe up with the baby cereal and open her beak and inject it down her throat??


do i have to repeat the process or 5 ml is enough for the night?

what about tums?? how can i feed her tums


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

*Up Date*

I just finished talking texasmk4 through handfeeding and giving his bird the TUMS. 
He has her on a heating pad, set on low and will find verteinary care for her in the morning.
He has only had the pigeon and 5 others for a short time. I think they were purchased from a breeder from out of his area. He tried finding veterinarian care today but was unsuccessful finding one that treats birds.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

texasmk4 said:


> i noticed this morning that my bird was not acting normal i seperated that bird and took some pictures of the birds and the poop can someone please tell me what is wrong with my bird and what i need to do to get her fine???? any suggestion would be appreciated.


Hi texasmk4,



This does resemble Albumen from possibly a broken or not-well-formed Egg, the rest of which might be still inside her.


Anyway, what had the poops been like prior to today?

When did she appearently stop eating?


I would provide some Baths for her, cool water is fine, just fill a clean frying pan or the likes...not too deep...and splash with your fingers to help interest her.


Check her Vent and see if anything looks off there.


What has her diet been so far, since you have had her?


Phil
Las Vegas


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thank you, Charis, for the extra help here. I hope things will be better for this pretty girl pijjie in the AM.

Terry


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

pdpbison said:


> Check her Vent and see if anything looks off there.
> 
> Phil
> Las Vegas


Good thought, Phil, about checking the vent to be sure it is not stopped up. 

What is your thinking behind the cool bath versus a warm one? Just curious since we usually go with warmth in cases of egg binding. 

Terry


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Terry, 



Lol...

I thought she might like a 'cool' one better! Or be less likely to refuse it...


Every Pigeon I ever knew of here, did not like 'warm' Water for baths, even in Winter, and if anything, the colder the better!


But probably "warm" would be best for her, but it would likely have to be a 'held IN the bath' kind of bath, rather than one she would take on her own.

In which case, it may as well be a Bathroom Sink Bath with holding her nicely in the Sink half-full of Warm Water.


What about Epsom Salts, or Salt Water, for the Bath?

Salt Water I think might be good to use...

Vinegar might be good for that matter, but I am not sure. It will soften Calcium Carbonate, but likely would not get 'high; enough to effect any broken Shells, if there are any...and maybe the Shell was simply not formed at all, or is a soft 'blob'.


If this is Albumen, then I suppose it would qualify as a 'mis-cariage', and should be regarded as a serious condition till resolved.


I have seen some things like this but long ago, where the Shell was a soft 'blob' that followed later...and they did resolve on their own with the rest of the stuff, the Shell and whatever else, following out in a day or two.


But I would take this 'seriously' I think...

I would inspect her Vent and it's inside if possible, gently, and see if anything is to be seen there...and overall hope for the best.


If access to an able experienced Avian Vet is possible, that would be a good resort, for her to have an examination by an educated hand and eye.


My Books are not handy, but if I can find anhy info I will post it later.


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Terry and Phil,
The bird has not had any calcium or grit available. The diet has been pigeon mix.He said that he had called the feed store about grit and oyster and will pick some up.
l I talked to hime the entire time he was feeding just in case there was a problem. Near the conclusion of our call, the bird did poop and he said it was mostly white. That made sense because the bird had been drinking.There had been no food in the crop.
I told him that he absolutely cannot let this bird go another day without veterinary treatment . He has antibotics coming from one of the supply houses but they probably won't arrive for several days.
He said he will give us an update this morning.


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## texasmk4 (Apr 17, 2007)

*updates on birdie*

Thank you very much Charis bird is doing much better, what do i have to do next her poop has changed i am posting some new pics i took this morning can you please let me know what should i do next??


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Tex,

On the top picture, on the lowest right-hand poop, there is some staining to the actual towel that looks reddish-brown. Can you confirm that? In a bird with oviduct problems, they sometimes pass a little blood mixed in and you see things like that.

Pidgey


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

texasmk4 said:


> i noticed this morning that my bird was not acting normal


I've seen plenty of poops that look like your first photos, especially in the morning and on an empty stomach. Most people don't get the chance to see poops like this because they have a floor that has bedding or wood that absorbs the poops and nothing really shows up. My floors are vinyl, nearly white and don't absorb anything so I am able to see poops in their entirety, texture/consistency and colour.

You said that the bird wasn't acting normal, this could be a problem so why do you say that the pigeon was acting differently?


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## texasmk4 (Apr 17, 2007)

she was sitting down in the corner not walking and not eating not flying, i seperated her from other birds... yes that top left poop looks a little reddish i fed her some rice baby cereal do i still need to hand feed her or should i put her back in the loft with other pigeons?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Tex, Offer the bird food and see if she will eat and drink on her own.
It's my opioion that you still need to get veterinarian care for her TODAY.
I agree with Pigdey that the red/brown in her poop could indicate blood. 
It also looks to me like she passed some yoke.
If she won't eat on her own, feed her as you did last night.
You've done a good job so far and I can tell that you really care about her and want her to be well.
Pidgey and Brad are very knowledgeable too and likely will have some good insight.
They've probably had the oportunity to read the thread in full.
She's an adorable pigeon.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

You cannot put her back with the others until you find out what is wrong with her and get the issue resolved.

If she is eating well on her own then you won't need to hand feed, if not you will need to continue to feed her.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

If she was in a corner and "clinically depressed", it's usually a bad sign and you sure don't want to put her back out. I expect that her weight is fine so she's got reserves.  It'd be most likely that she's sick with something and so an antibiotic is in order. Did you ever answer the question as to whether her vent feathers are matted with any poop or dried mucus?

My first guess looking at everything is that she may have an oviduct infection of some sort. You could start her on a Baytril/Metronidazole combination. Keflex would be nice. You don't have any antibiotics yet, do you?

Where in Texas are you?

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Oh, yeah--you're in Houston. I went back to earlier posts. In this thread:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=20561

...you posted a picture of some poop that shows liver involvement in two ways: the pale green urates and the lack of dark green of the actual solids. The lack of dark green in the solids is demonstrating a lack of bile salts with which to digest food and the pale green urates demonstrates biliverdin, the equivalent of some form of hepatitis in us (we "jaundice" due to bilirubin).

Now, whenever you've got stuff like this running around in your loft, it's pretty much time for flock treatment. The other thing I'd consider if I were you would be to get some Sal-Bac vaccination and supplies (syringes with needles) and learn how to vaccinate your birds against Salmonellosis (Paratyphoid).

Pidgey


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## texasmk4 (Apr 17, 2007)

Pidgey said:


> If she was in a corner and "clinically depressed", it's usually a bad sign and you sure don't want to put her back out. I expect that her weight is fine so she's got reserves. It'd be most likely that she's sick with something and so an antibiotic is in order. Did you ever answer the question as to whether her vent feathers are matted with any poop or dried mucus?
> 
> Pidgey


Pidgey,

how can i find out if her vent feathers are matted with any poop or dried???


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, quite simply, you just feel around "back there" and see if the feathers don't feel normal anymore. The deal is that some conditions cause a "catarrhal discharge" which is basically mucus (snot) and that kind of stuff sticks to feathers and then dries. Think of it like glue. Water won't do that and regular poop won't do that. But that kind of stuff will, especially when it's oozing out.

Pidgey


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## texasmk4 (Apr 17, 2007)

i ordered some Enroxil Tablets and Metrinodizole i should get them by early tomorrow


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## texasmk4 (Apr 17, 2007)

i placed her cage outside in the sun, is she going to be ok?? she's not eating anything i guess i have to manually put the food down her thorat via syringe


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

If the bird develops egg perotonitis antibiotics won't help much. It needs to be cleaned out by surgery.

Reti


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Not necessarily--there are too many different scenarios there.

Pidgey


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## texasmk4 (Apr 17, 2007)

charis i remember u told me you purchase straws for your pigeon for them to make their nest where do you purchase those straws?? if its not straws can u tell me what is it called?


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## texasmk4 (Apr 17, 2007)

do i need to find an avian vet???


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

You can go gather up smaller twigs and they can use those, too. Tobacco stems are good.

Unfortunately, this bird might be pretty close to death's door. It'd be better if you could get some immediate medications for it and that would mean finding an avian vet, which you shouldn't have too much trouble finding in or near Houston. You can go here:

http://aav.org/vet-lookup/

Pidgey


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## texasmk4 (Apr 17, 2007)

pidgey thank you very much i found an avian vet he's not too far from my place, could you please tell me where can i find the tobbacco stems??


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, somebody else is going to have to do that--I just gather twigs for 'em.

Pidgey


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

*Tobacco Stems*

Here's one place that has them: http://www.roller-pigeon.com/catalog/item/861199/4367953.htm I think a couple of the well known on-line pigeon supply houses also carry them.

Mine love the long, dried pine needles for nest building.

Terry


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Hi Tex,
I'm just back and checking all tha post on this thread since this morning.
I buy straw at the feed store, one bale at a time. If you call around, I'm sure you'll be able to find some. Tobacco stems and twigs would be great too. 
By now I hope you've taken your bird to the vet. 
Please let us know how it went.


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## texasmk4 (Apr 17, 2007)

i am getting off from work early, she going to an avian vet today... She's doing better but still not eating on her own, i am feeding her by syringe. She does'nt look as depressed as she was the first day i took her out of the loft. How come she's still not eating on her own?? i am going to take some pics of her and her poop when i get home and will post some online for you guys to analyze.. BTW thank you for all of your guys for your suggestion and support


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## texasmk4 (Apr 17, 2007)

can someone please educate me about vaccination?? should i order PMV and the other vaccination??


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

The Sal-Bac is probably more important for you, actually. You have to learn how to give shots or get with someone who's comfortable with doing that if it's an issue for you. Most vaccines have to be shipped in a cooler and fairly quickly. They're usually good for a pretty good amount of time once you get them into your fridge. They're typically made to be dosed at 0.5 cc's per bird when they're the size of homers, 1 to 1 1/2 lbs. If you have rollers or some other small breed, you can adjust the dosage down. The vaccines usually come in bottles for 50 or 100 birds (homer-sized) at a whack and I don't think you've got anywhere near that many. As such, it'd be more economical for you to get with another fancier to help share the costs.

Pidgey


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## texasmk4 (Apr 17, 2007)

its not an issue i can always learn, can you please tell me in details on how and where to shot the pigeon for sal-bac?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, I'll bet there is an illustrating link somewhere for that...

Anyhow, you need to hold the pigeon in such a way that it can't fight you much and then you pinch some skin of the lower neck near the back in a place where the feathers part enough so that you can see where you're injecting. It's best to point the needle caudally (towards the tail) and pick an angle of entry so that the needle won't jab into the cervical vertebrae or something else vital in the neck if the bird jumps or struggles at a bad time. It's better to have two people working this procedure, one to hold the bird and one to inject.

Pidgey


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

You might want to have a Veterinarian show you on the first one or two so that you are comfortable with it.


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