# The Bull System



## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

Hey guys I'm here asking for an opinion. I got a cock that flew good for me this year he won diplomas and money for me and was a real tough bird that did great for me. I was handling him today and I was thinking wow this guy is really great. Big bird that proved himself from 150-300. I kind of am thinking of doing the bull system with him on all my hens, I really feel like he responded so well to my training and did good for me that I want to emphasize his genes. Is that a bad idea since hes not a proven breeder? Should I give him this year to produce a few young ones and see how they do for me or should I just try him out on all my hens. I do own his parents...but I'm starting to lean very much towards using this cock in a bull system matter. He was fast maturing and was loft flying for 30+ minutes with yellow fuzzies. Whats your opinion?


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## orock (Mar 28, 2011)

I wouldn't like you said he hasn't been proven to be a good breeder yet. Now on the other hand his parents are maybe use the bull system on his dad. Just my opinion lets see what other PT members think.


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## Matt Bell (May 5, 2010)

I wouldn't yet...if he is only a yearling I would fly him in old birds but that all depends on your specific goals. Do you want to specialize in sprints/yb races or do you want to be an all around loft doing well at any distance. He may turn out to be that great bird, but if he is you won't lose him. You could try breeding a round from him and seeing what they do. I would try that first, would hate to lose an entire breeding season by using a bird thats a great racer but poor breeder. Just my 2 cents.


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## honeyrobber (Apr 28, 2011)

Sure sounds like a good system. How many have tried this system and what were your experiences?


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

You won't know until you try him out. Bull system speeds up the evaluating process. If you have, say, 5 hens you want to try him on, rather than taking a few years (assuming you'd only raise 2 or 3 rounds) you can put him on them all in one season, a round each. He can't be a proven breeder until he's given the chance. And while one hen may not work, another might. So if you have the room and the time, go for it!


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

I guess that is a good idea, choosing a few hens to try him on instead of all of them. I don't think I'm going to fly old birds, I definitely wont next year that's for sure.


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## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

I tried the bull system on one of my males this year. Now theres a big difference between racers and high fliers but I think it went pretty well. He topped out last year at 13 hours, and I bred him with 4 hens instead of all of them. 3 out of 4 hens that I bred him with had some great hours. Like mentioned, don't put all your eggs in one basket, breed him to say 3 or 4 hens and you should get a good idea


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

honeyrobber said:


> Sure sounds like a good system. How many have tried this system and what were your experiences?


I know for a fact that David Clausing uses this system.


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## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

Here is a post from a member here on pigeon talk. This is their method/plan of the "bull system". Hope it helps! 


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Eriduardo said:


> I have been using a method for this new breeding season to breed several hens to one cock. It's not that hard to follow. I found it a while ago, going through different pigeon websites looking for info.
> 
> The number of young obtainable from one 'stud sire' in one round depends on how many hens you plan on mating to that one cock. It can be 2 it can be 6, 10, 12, 16, etc. it just depends on how much time you're willing to spare for the process. I was able to successfully wean 9 young from from one cock in one round, on my first attempt. I mated 6 hens to one cock I should of gotten 12 but not all the eggs were fertil, 9 is a pretty good number though. All you need is two sections in the loft or two lofts to separate the males from the females. This process is easier when the cock is not mated, and it helps if the hens have all laid and reared young before. You will also need any kind of nest boxes where the hen can be isolated from the cock (widowhood nestboxes, work well)
> 
> ...



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## mikel (Jun 9, 2011)

i would mate his father to a different hen and his mother to a different cock,that way i will see if the father or mother is the one giving the good genes,do you have a half brother or sister of your cock that also did good?for me i would focus first on the parents first because they produce a great bird


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## A_Smith (Aug 8, 2006)

http://www.pigeonnetwork.com/articles/NigelCowood.html bull system webpage


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

http://hapycolofts.com/lofts/news/poly_breeding.html


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

I think that I will let the parents raise one round with different birds. But I plan on fostering 2 rounds from them together and let them raise 1 round on their own. As far as the cock in question I think I'll do the bull system on him with 4 hens and then pair him up to a hen for two rounds.


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

I just put the fosters in the loft to pair with each other. Then I will be putting 3 different hens in three different nest boxes with nest bowls and nesting material. I'll introduce my stud cock to them for a few hours a day each, and we will see where that takes us.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

First To Hatch said:


> Hey guys I'm here asking for an opinion. I got a cock that flew good for me this year he won diplomas and money for me and was a real tough bird that did great for me. I was handling him today and I was thinking wow this guy is really great. Big bird that proved himself from 150-300. I kind of am thinking of doing the bull system with him on all my hens, I really feel like he responded so well to my training and did good for me that I want to emphasize his genes. Is that a bad idea since hes not a proven breeder? Should I give him this year to produce a few young ones and see how they do for me or should I just try him out on all my hens. I do own his parents...but I'm starting to lean very much towards using this cock in a bull system matter. He was fast maturing and was loft flying for 30+ minutes with yellow fuzzies. Whats your opinion?


 To each his own. I think the major down side to this idea, is that the average fancier does not own a "Super" proven stud cock, in which to bet the future of the whole colony. Just like inbreeding and other systems, IMHO, people jump the gun all too quickly. Now, once the cock has "proven" himself by way of the breeding pen, that he produces exceptional young out of turn, then perhaps pairing him to several hens in a season might be justified. But, from what you have written, all you have at this point is perhaps a "good" racer. There is a world of difference between where he is at now, and becoming the stud to base your whole colony around. But hey, that is me.


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

You have a good point Warren, and I decided to only breed him to three different hens with the fosters, this is an extra round of 6 babies. I figured like was said it will make the evaluating process quicker, he will have 6 babies with those 3 hens, and 4 with his mate. So we will see how he bred with the 4 different hens and 10 young. In the end to me, its better to find out in a year then it would normally take me 2+ years to get 10 young out of him when I am only breeding two rounds a year.


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