# Canker in feral, need help



## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

Ok, tried to get this one yesterday, and got it today. Could tell it had trouble picking up seed, and could tell the throat was a bit swollen, like canker. Well, caught it, pretty thin juvenile bird, bad canker, can see some in back of throat, but a huge chunk is further down throat, by the bottom of neck, the top of crop area. It is a huge disk shaped mass of canker, bigger then a dollar coin. 
Ok, i cant find or am out of flagyl, but have spartix, and the canker ones this year have responded better to spartix then flagyl, so i am assuming you guys would advise spartix on this one? correct me if wrong? And i have the 10mg spartix, now, 5mg 2xday sound right or not?


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Raina,

Give a whole 10 mg tablet of Spartrix now. I had a pigeon that I didn't think would last the night, had to give the spartrix crushed as I didn't think it would get down the throat. The next morning half the canker was gone. So I recommed crushing the tablet but you might want to dissolve it in water.

Cynthia


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

The formulary has an interesting spread on that one: 20-30 mg/kg, PO, Once, and then another at 200 mg/kg, PO, Once.

You're probably looking at a 250 gram bird or less, so 10 mg/day would be in the 40 mg/kg class, however you give it. Go for it unless somebody else with more experience than I've got with Spartrix in that particular presentation (massive underchin swelling) comes aboard with more information. I haven't seen canker like that in pigeons around here--it's usually the Kestrels or doves and I haven't seen any of them like that in years.

Pidgey


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Fortunately Spartrix has an extremely wide safety margin, tests showed that there was no harm to the birds even when given 32 times the recommended dose. Unless I am dealing with a squab I have always given the full tablet. 

Cynthia


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

ok, so 10mg a day once a day or twice a day?
Poor gal is thin, and has very watery poops with just white urates, also, the breathing FEELS weird when i hold her, cant hear it, but it feels scratchy, like its harder getting a breath in, heard to explain, almost feels like phlegm or something when she breathes. I can feel it, but not hear it too well. But, i am a bit deaf right now, so i'm not the best judge of that right now
She just seems like a girl, PLUS Humphrey went crazy around her cage when i brought her in, so now Humphrey is mad because i had to put him in the cage across the room so he didnt catch anything. Hard to isolate when they are all in one room, but i do my best...


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

That wouldn't surprise me--bad swelling there is too near the softer portion of the airway.

In bad cases like that, a little more might be better and since you're way below the high-end threshold... see what Cynthia thinks.

Pidgey


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I agree. The canker might have already done permanent damage but if it hasn't done that yet then it needs to be stopped fast.

Cynthia


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi "X", 



I have also dissolved a 'Spartrix' in just a very little Water, in a Bottle Cap or bottom of a Shot Glass, and added to it maybe five or six drops of "DMSO"...then used Q-Tips to swab or dab this solution, onto their effected areas in their Throat and on their outer skin...and I believe this has definitely helped. 

This being in addition to giving them Spartrix or Metronidazole orally.


Tube Feeds of 'thin' formula also of course...small meals widely paced...and for these I usually add Goji Berry juice or black Cherry Juice and a heavy 'Squig' of 'Nutrical', since they have been starving usually for some time, and the formula should be watery ( I ight use 'Oat Milk' instead of Water also ), easy to digest and not taxing on their systems...so, I try for say six to ten poops a day anyway, and after a few days, I try for 12 - 15...and on from there.

One can not feed them very much when they have been so long starving like that...but one has to feed them something, so feed lightly, wide spaced of 3 times a day maybe and watch for poope to tell things are being processed to measure your feedings as you go...



Good luck..!



Phil
l v


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

cyro51 said:


> Fortunately Spartrix has an extremely wide safety margin, tests showed that there was no harm to the birds even when given 32 times the recommended dose.
> 
> *Unless I am dealing with a squab I have always given the full tablet.*
> 
> Cynthia


I have as well. And that was recommended by our local rehabber. 
Now, I may have to dissolve it in a tiny bit of water to get it down, but none the less I give a full tablet.

Cindy


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

yes, i tube fed her already, will give her more spartix because i gave half a tab at first. I learned with the 2 that died with canker this year that even if they are eating on their own, to supplement with Kaytee and nutrical tube feedings, because when they go down, they go down very quickly, and any extra weight they have will only help them survive. I tend to think there is damage here. I mean, it just feels very bad, and in a bad spot. I hope she pulls throughg, she is a gorgeous gal, and very young.
I guess i should get more flagyl and spartix, because it is that time of year when it gets very bad with canker. Wow, i remember last year, WHEW! I was busy this time of year! I just hope i dont have any sick ones when i go to the west coast the end of next month.
I just wish there was some way i could keep my feral flock from getting canker in the first place. I hate canker. This gal, i can smell it when i just hold her, and the part i can see in her throat isnt even the worst part, its that hard disk shaped part i can feel further down. 
Thanks for the advice/help you guys, you're always a huge help!
Oh, 10 mg twice a day or once?


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## KIPPY (Dec 18, 2003)

> I just wish there was some way i could keep my feral flock from getting canker in the first place.


I've used the Pegosan Soluble Powder and the Global multi mix to flock treat the ferals.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Twice.

By the way, I learned from one of my vets this last week that the oral canker medications need acid to be absorbed. This means that the tablet has to go down to the glandular stomach to get the acid, get absorbed and then come back around through the bloodstream in order to hit the major lesions. Therefore, if you really need for the stuff to go in faster and especially if it's a case where it might stop in the crop anyhow, it's best to dissolve the medication in something acidic like orange juice before administering it. I suppose the same thing could be done with ACV, too. Just something for us to consider. That vet uses IV packs for human use to give to birds orally because that stuff can either be injected or it'll absorb on contact with the membranes throughout the GI, I guess.

Pidgey


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi "X", 


I have also been getting them where they have what I take to be 'Canker' but they also have some weird inflamitory process or other artifact in their Throat which is yellowish tan, smoothe, and 'moulded' or contoured to their Throat. Looks like slightly shiney 'plastic' and it clings very well to the sides of their Throat too...not a loose item at all.


This, whatever it is, I treat with 'Baytril' or equivelent, and it seems to work...where the Anti-Canker meds alone, will not.

Or, I treat with 'Medistatin'...or both, along WITH treating for Canker.


In fact, minutes after my past post to you, I walked outside, and lo-and-behold, one very such Pigeon was standing but looking 'off' - doingthe 'Penguin' pose...so I got him gathered up and did a fast exam...


Yellow Urate 'poop-butt', HUGE artifact in throat ( Thrush??? Salmonella? What IS this stuff???) so...started him on 'Metronidazole' and about to administer some 'Medistatin', and also gave him a Water Cup in his Cage, with Enrofloxacyn or whatever it is ( 'Baytril', more or less ) and...

He's pretty 'thin' himself...


I cut the Metronidazole pill in half, hoping he had enough Throat room to manage that, and he swallowed each half just fine...so that's good...

Heck, if he can do that, we can do 'Seed Pops' with small Seed maybe...but likely we will just do 'Tube-Feeds' today and toorrow just to be prudent.


Anyway, some forms of 'Thrush' or 'Candida' can make wierd, slick, moulded, thick 'artifacts' in their Throats which can look like Canker in some of it's presentations, so...


Bear this in mind...since they can have one, two, or all three OF these at the same time...and or who the heck knows just WHAT these 'things' are?


I do not ( now what some of these look-alike htings are, other than both Candida and Salonella - I 'think' ) can look 'like' some forms of Canker, or, accopany Canker )...but I do know, some things can look like others, but be different things, or they can be concurrent, and that of course can make a huge difference in how well they are responding to which meds.



Oye...


Best wishes..!


Phil
l v


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## KIPPY (Dec 18, 2003)

> Anyway, some forms of 'Thrush' or 'Candida' can make wierd, slick, moulded, thick 'artifacts' in their Throats which can look like Canker in some of it's presentations, so...


Can this 'Thrush' or 'Candida' cause damage like canker does?



> I suppose the same thing could be done with ACV, too.


So then adding ACV to their water while your treating for canker would be a good thing?


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Pidgey said:


> Twice.
> 
> By the way, I learned from one of my vets this last week that the oral canker medications need acid to be absorbed. This means that the tablet has to go down to the glandular stomach to get the acid, get absorbed and then come back around through the bloodstream in order to hit the major lesions. Therefore, if you really need for the stuff to go in faster and especially if it's a case where it might stop in the crop anyhow, it's best to dissolve the medication in something acidic like orange juice before administering it. I suppose the same thing could be done with ACV, too. Just something for us to consider. That vet uses IV packs for human use to give to birds orally because that stuff can either be injected or it'll absorb on contact with the membranes throughout the GI, I guess.
> 
> Pidgey




Hi Pidgey, 



I did not see your post earlier...

Wow, I did not now that...Good mention, I will remember to do this, to give ACV-Water or other acidic liquid when giving any of the 'Zoles for critical ones...


Thanks!



Phil
l v


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

KIPPY said:


> Can this 'Thrush' or 'Candida' cause damage like canker does?




Hi Kippy,



It can damage them in ways which are dangerous or lethal if not ammended...definitely...

But, or and, it can have varying presentations, also, as for how one may notice or deduce it to be there.





> So then adding ACV to their water while your treating for canker would be a good thing?



I would think so, especially after Pidgey's mention...and or also to adminster 'Nystatin' or 'Medistatin' if any doubt about the Pigeon having a Candida or Yeast issue/problem.



Mild Candida I( with no visible plaque or artifact ) seems to respond well and abate with ACV-Water alone, especially when it has been occasioned in youngsters by hand feeding KT or similar, when such was not being prepared right...or in Babys getting it fro 'chill' or privation and chill...


Other forms of Candida, or any which occasion conspicuous plaque in the Throat, as far as I gather, one would do best to treat with both ACV-Water and Nystatin or Medistatin concurrently.


Presentations of some odd kinds of Salmonella IF that is in fact what it is I have confronted, which make for wierd tan or yellowish stuff in their Throats, seem to respond well to Baytril or it's kin.


I do not know what I have been seeing and treating at times, but I have had Canker-like looking 'things' which did not respond at all the Anti-Canker meds, and or were something else, so, anymore, when in doubt, I treat as described, for all 'three' possible conditions, and see what shakes.


Phil
l v


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## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

Interesting about the canker meds and acid, Pidgey! 

I've been dissolving the Spartrix in a small amount of water, then adding it to the tube feeding syringe. I wonder if dissolving it in ACV instead of water and adding it to the formula would work? 

I have a new canker bird who is on day 10 of treatment, and the canker overall has not seemed to go down at all (a very small yellow deposit did come loose, but I would have hoped for more improvement by now). I've started swabbing the mouth with Spartrix too. Her droppings sometimes tend toward brown diarrhea, and she seems to be digesting on the slow side, which makes TID feeding difficult. (She's very thin, of course, but holding her weight so far)  

She seems to feel pretty good, though, judging by her behavior. Very active and eager to escape her carrier and very quick to grunt and whack me with her wing.

Jennifer


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

alright, i am worried, the phlegmy wet sounding breathing is worse, and i really do think the canker has eaten through the throat to the airway because of the sounds. She has thin, clear mucous sometimes in throat, and the disk of canker is still there. She didnt throw up food, and has been pooping alot more though. 
Do you guys think i should start baytril just to be sure? And continue ACV with feedings along with spartix?
Also, does anyone here know of a pigeon that had canker that ate through throat and it healed itself after canker was treated? Gotta run, check in later though


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

KIPPY said:


> Can this 'Thrush' or 'Candida' cause damage like canker does?
> 
> 
> 
> So then adding ACV to their water while your treating for canker would be a good thing?


Not all pigeons will drink water with ACV so I think to be sure they have the benifit of it, they should be given some w/water individually or orange juice or applesauce.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Pidgey said:


> Twice.
> 
> By the way, I learned from one of my vets this last week that the oral canker medications need acid to be absorbed. This means that the tablet has to go down to the glandular stomach to get the acid, get absorbed and then come back around through the bloodstream in order to hit the major lesions. Therefore, if you really need for the stuff to go in faster and especially if it's a case where it might stop in the crop anyhow, it's best to dissolve the medication in something acidic like orange juice before administering it. I suppose the same thing could be done with ACV, too. Just something for us to consider. That vet uses IV packs for human use to give to birds orally because that stuff can either be injected or it'll absorb on contact with the membranes throughout the GI, I guess.
> 
> Pidgey


Does your vet have any articles he can supply you with? Maybe you could ask next time you see him. I would love to read about it.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

We're just going to have to find out the hard way on that canker in the throat bit. There's certainly no reason to not give Baytril if there are funny breathing sounds.

Pidgey


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

jenfer said:


> Interesting about the canker meds and acid, Pidgey!
> 
> I've been dissolving the Spartrix in a small amount of water, then adding it to the tube feeding syringe. I wonder if dissolving it in ACV instead of water and adding it to the formula would work?
> 
> ...




Hi Jennifer, 


Pleae see my other posts in this thread...


Some of these things which have 'things' in their Throats, are not Canker...but, are forms of Candida or inflamatory debris of Salmonella...which may or may not have had Canker going on also...




Phil
l v


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

A vet's usually going to examine a swab in order to figure it out. If you don't find any Trich but do see some fast-moving bacilli, then it's more likely to be something other than canker. And when you're shooting blind, it's often best to use a big shotgun loaded with everything including the kitchen sink.

Pidgey


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

xxmoxiexx said:


> alright, i am worried, the phlegmy wet sounding breathing is worse, and i really do think the canker has eaten through the throat to the airway because of the sounds. She has thin, clear mucous sometimes in throat, and the disk of canker is still there. She didnt throw up food, and has been pooping alot more though.
> Do you guys think i should start baytril just to be sure? And continue ACV with feedings along with spartix?
> Also, does anyone here know of a pigeon that had canker that ate through throat and it healed itself after canker was treated? Gotta run, check in later though




Hi "X", 



What does the aperature of their actual Larynx look like?


I do not think this is likely to be a situation where Canker has 'eaten' anything which would impede or cause noises of his breathing, but, rather, that it it is either a mechanical liability of mucous or other debris impeding the Air entering the Larynx, or, a second illess/infection.



If not 'Baytril' then "Doxycyclin" maybe ( or you can use both, what the hay...)


But, lets us know more detals of what you see in his Throat, and the apearance of his actual Larynx itself...


Phil
l v


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> I have a new canker bird who is on day 10 of treatment, and the canker overall has not seemed to go down at all (a very small yellow deposit did come loose, but I would have hoped for more improvement by now). I've started swabbing the mouth with Spartrix too. Her droppings sometimes tend toward brown diarrhea, and she seems to be digesting on the slow side, which makes TID feeding difficult. (She's very thin, of course, but holding her weight so far)


Hi Jenfer,

I have had canker nodules disappear by the tenth day, the only one that went on longer than that was where the canker had formed a dumbell shaped plug at the mandibular joint. The pigeon's mouth was permanently open. Eventually I had to tease the remaining bit of canker out with a cotton bud.

Is the visible nodule still the same colour as it was? What part of the mouth is it in?

Cynthia


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## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

cyro51 said:


> I have had canker nodules disappear by the tenth day, the only one that went on longer than that was where the canker had formed a dumbell shaped plug at the mandibular joint.
> Is the visible nodule still the same colour as it was? What part of the mouth is it in?


My last canker patient took at least ten days for the canker to start disappearing. By about two or three weeks, it was gone completely. 

There are tiny bits of it with the new one that can be swabbed out, but on the whole, the whole nodule is still there. It's on the right side of the mouth and throat, and the lump is visible externally. It's possible that it's gone down a bit but that the reduction isn't very noticeable because the lump was huge at the start. (Her tongue is displaced to the left by it.)

On the first day, the very back of the throat had a greenish tinge to some parts of the nodule, but now that seems to be gone. It's pretty uniformly light yellow now, I'd say. At one point, I thought it had grown (seemed to extend toward the front of the beak), but when I swabbed it, that part came out easily. At the outset, the mouth had a typical canker odor that's largely abated since starting treatment.

I don't want to bring her anywhere right now (no vets nearby), and I don't have the equipment to check for trichomonads at home, so I might just start swabbing her mouth with Nystatin also. She's also on Albon for coccidiosis--does anyone know if Albon would also address salmonellosis to any degree?

Thanks,
Jennifer


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

Alrighty, update. This morning she coughed up a chunk of canker. Today i tube fed, just now, and just giving a little bit at a time because she threw up yesterday. She is eating on her own a bit.
Ok, after i tub fed, she started breathing frantically, really wet, and i swear, almost died, she was breathing so hard, open mouthed, and couldnt seem to get air, and yes, i did tube feed into crop, not airway, dont worry, was very careful. I grabbed her and grabbed a q-tip and swabbed the throat, all this clear mucous came out, it was all in the back of her throat and a bunch was sitting on her airway. She breathed better then and calmed down. I then felt her throat, and that disk of canker is gone, i think i may have dislodged it tube feeding, and it is now sitting in her crop, i can feel it. I think i dislodged it, and then all that mucous went into her airway. 
What can happen when the canker sits in stomach? Will it grow in there now?


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

OMG! She just coughed up another huge chunk of canker covered in mucous! I am just worried that if the canker is gone the hole between the throat and larynx isnt covered anymore! 
She looks fine right now, looking at me like I was crazy really, but I am amazed she like, almost died 20 minutes ago. I really hope she pulls through this, she is an adorable sweet girl!


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

The yellow stuff of canker is comprised primarily of spent leukocytes, which are white blood cells. They are the soldiers that the body sends to fight a lot of wars, this kind of infection being one of them. They can either be coughed up or go on through the GI.

Getting an airway closed off is a pretty dramatic thing and it gets resolved quickly, one way or the other. It's pretty dicey at this point.

Pidgey


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

well, lets hope for the best. I have hope because she is alive even after the canker has dislodged, so I am hoping the flesh will heal there. I cannot actually SEE a hole, so there may not even be one, but the area it was in made me think so, MAYBE the wet breathing has been from her breathing in the mucous, and not a hole. We shall see I suppose....


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

A bird I had once with the symptoms you described (wet breathing) did have a hole in the esophagus. Every time I fed her she started being short of breath and gasping for air because the formula was leaking into her abdomen and irritating the air sacs. I hope that is not the case, but if it happens after each feeding it is something to consider. There is nothing you can do about it unfortunately.

Reti


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

Reti, did she die? I remember you mentioning this before, with the other bad canker case i had.
I wonder if it will SOMETIMES heal itself? One can hope i suppose


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

xxmoxiexx said:


> OMG! She just coughed up another huge chunk of canker covered in mucous! I am just worried that if the canker is gone the hole between the throat and larynx isnt covered anymore!
> She looks fine right now, looking at me like I was crazy really, but I am amazed she like, almost died 20 minutes ago. I really hope she pulls through this, she is an adorable sweet girl!




Hi "X",



What are the meds you are using?



Phil
l v


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Reti said:


> A bird I had once with the symptoms you described (wet breathing) did have a hole in the esophagus. Every time I fed her she started being short of breath and gasping for air because the formula was leaking into her abdomen and irritating the air sacs. I hope that is not the case, but if it happens after each feeding it is something to consider. There is nothing you can do about it unfortunately.
> 
> Reti




Hi Reti, 


In theory, such a 'hole' could be sutured to grow 'closed' again... ( and whatever 'food' had leaked into the Crop's surrounds, could be sluiced out and all made clean in there...)


Depends on how large the 'hole' or missing-area is, or how much 'around' the esophagus it is.


But, can be done anyway...if what is missing is not too extreme...




Phil
l v


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

You know... if you feed her peas and corn, it's unlikely that any would get in the wrong place due to their size. You might try that for awhile.

Pidgey


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Well, I took her in for surgery as the hole grew to her skin and she was leaking out food. The vet called me in during surgery to show me the damage canker had done. Her lower part of her esophagus was gone and the upper part of her crop and the damage was so extensive, there was no tissue left to reconstruct the missing parts. She had to be euthanized. 
A small hole could heal but not what my Sally had, there was no way this could heal on it's own.

Another bad canker I had recently was in a bird I had kept going for two weeks and when I though he was getting over it, one morning I went to feed him and I found his hemorrhaging out of his mouth in great quantity. I rushed him to the vet only in the car he aspirated his blood. He was still alive when I got to the vets but there was nothing that could be done for him either. The canker had eroded an artery. 

I hope nothing of this will happen to your guy. But when I get bad canker victims now I expect anything to happen.

Reti


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

Ok, update, the gal is still alive and seems to be doing better, most of the canker is gone, i can still feel a small lump, but the spartix is doing its job.
Ok, Phil, am giving her spartix still, i know they say 3 days but the only way i have found it to work with bad canker is to keep 'em on it for a few more days, or until its gone. Oh, and baytril, and ACV in tube feedings.
Ok, the BAD thing is, she is still coughing up phlegm and is still, on OCCASION, having wet breathing. Ok, yesterday she started to have wet breathing, and she started to cough and shake her head, and this string of thick clear phlegm came flying out when she coughed and shook her head, and it wrapped around her head! It seems that either there is a hole and she is breathing in phlegm, or somehow she is breathing it in through the regular hole, not an "extra" hole made by canker.
Thoughts? I did try to give her some Steam, like Pidgey has done for Unie i believe? But it didnt do anything, and its not, obviously, treating the main problem, whatever that is! 
So, any thoughts, help, advice would be great.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Steam only keeps the phlegm from hardening up into a dangerously obstructive mass. It requires a medicine to help with an infection in the airways, which we don't know is the case here.

Pidgey


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

well, i knew steam wouldnt treat the main cause of the wet breathing, but that day i thought she was gonna die if she didnt cough it up, actually, it might have helped her cough the stuff up now that i think about it, so i knew steam wouldnt TREAT the CAUSE, but would HELP the SYMPTOM, the wet breathing, help her cough the stuff up at THAT MOMENT. And it did, i never expected it to cure it, would of been a nice surprise. 
Ok, she HAS gained weight, how much, not sure, but the keel bone isnt as sharp as it was, she isnt as disoriented, can fly better, walk better, but the wet breathing. I guess all we can do for now is see if it heals on its own, if it is a hole? Rather then do anything drastic.
I am open for suggestions, as always! 
Reti, i am so sorry to hear about those birds dying, especially after all you went through with taking them to the vet. 
Off for the day, off to work, and some thing tonight, i always call anything social a "thing," LOL! 
Well, she's hanging in there, but i am worried it is a hole....


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## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

Moxie, have you been swabbing out her mouth carefully? I'm wondering if she just has a buildup of mucus in there that's causing the noise when she breathes.

One of my ex-canker pigeons wheezed constantly until I swabbed out her mouth. I (and the vet I talked with) actually thought she might have aspirated formula rather than the obvious, and when I swabbed her, it was like flipping a switch--no more wheezing.

My current canker patient has a lot of mucus too, and at times I can even see it near or on the glottis, so I've been swabbing her before tube feeds also. After 13 days, she still has a ways to go, but I can see bit of the canker dissolving, and I can see it drying up from the outside through the skin (it's a large mass, so I hope it doesn't leave a hole in her skin).

Jennifer


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

Quick update, she seems to be getting better, but i susoect has some more healing. No wet sounding breathing anymore, and yes, i have swabbed it a few times, sometimes it helped, sometimes not, one time i think she was about to die so it totally helped.
I can still feel a small lump, i cannot see any more canker far down the throat, and am not swabbing any small yellow chunks either. I'm hoping this keeps up, we'll see. Cross your fingers!


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Pidgey said:


> You know... if you feed her peas and corn, it's unlikely that any would get in the wrong place due to their size. You might try that for awhile.
> 
> Pidgey




Good idea...



Phil
l v


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

xxmoxiexx said:


> Quick update, she seems to be getting better, but i susoect has some more healing. No wet sounding breathing anymore, and yes, i have swabbed it a few times, sometimes it helped, sometimes not, one time i think she was about to die so it totally helped.
> I can still feel a small lump, i cannot see any more canker far down the throat, and am not swabbing any small yellow chunks either. I'm hoping this keeps up, we'll see. Cross your fingers!




Hi "X",



Good to hear..!


Meds sound wise to me...though sometimes ( in situations of these 'bad' Canker ones) I brood on whether I should be using Doxycycline or Oxytetracycline in lieu of Baytril, ( along with the Anti-Canker meds ) especially when there is lots of Throat mucous, and honestly I cannot say, other than 'maybe' Doxycycline - even if combined with a Baytril regimen - has seemed to help sometimes.



As does dissolving a Tablet or two of Spartrix or Metronidazole in a very small amount of Water, and adding a little 'DSMO' and Q-Tip swabbing that into insides of Throats or onto Skin under which Canker is present.


'Medistatin' is good to keep in mind, for when depleted Pigeons have been on Antibiotics, since Yeasts can get going in their systems and complicate their recovery.




Phil
l v


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

alrighty, how many days should i be keeping this gal until she's ready for release? No more wet breathing, at least for 4-5 days. I suspect she's got a few more days here, what do you all think?


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

xxmoxiexx said:


> alrighty, how many days should i be keeping this gal until she's ready for release? No more wet breathing, at least for 4-5 days. I suspect she's got a few more days here, what do you all think?



Hi "X", 




...a Month...


Thats about how I try and do it...just in case anything else was creeping up on them, or if they were incubating PPMV or who knows...


String Feet or other things I release right away unless they need subsequent attentions...

Illness, or serious injury, once I think they are 'well', then it's out of the Convelesent Cage, and they free fly free rove in here for at least a month before I release them.


And even then I do not always get to it THAT promptly...and by then, they have Mates and are building a darned 'Nest' somewhere in here...
'

Lol...



Phil
l v


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

xxmoxiexx said:


> alrighty, how many days should i be keeping this gal until she's ready for release? No more wet breathing, at least for 4-5 days. I suspect she's got a few more days here, what do you all think?


Moxie, as sick as she has been, do keep her longer. I'm really happy she has improved but she needs to probably put on more weight and to make sure no secondary infections start up. I agree with Phil on about a month to six weeks.


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

well, i figured, but running on a full house, i need to minimize their time here. I'll go set up another cage or something instead, just make room somehow..
Last summer it got more then a little crazy here!


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

xxmoxiexx said:


> well, i figured, but running on a full house, i need to minimize their time here. I'll go set up another cage or something instead, just make room somehow..
> Last summer it got more then a little crazy here!



Hi 'X',


It's that way here too...


Another sidelight of this, for me, is how in times passed, I had 'released' Pigeons after their recovery, only to see them fly poorly a little distance, and then me having to chase them around to get them rouded up again.

Believe me, that is not satisfying...


So, ideally, we need to see them showing they are able, and if indoors is the best we can do, then, their Month or Six-Week of getting to put on weight or whatever else, free flying indoors, is how we have to in-effect have them under 'observation' in a pre-release phase, to judge their fitness and vitality and health, for release...and to make sure nothing else was bothinging them which we missed on the first go-round.


And a Cage will not answer this, since they need to be flying floor to high places, down hallways, around corners, and whatever else indoors is possible.



Phil
l v


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

yes, i dont release FROM a cage, i meant since her stay will be longer, she'll stay in a cage for a few days, a week, then fly free for a few weeks. I know what you mean, i once released a bird, when i was new to this, that had been in a cage for 2 weeks, it flew a bit, and just sat there. It couldnt fly well, but it was hard to catch again, and i almost got ran over by a car trying to catch it after it tried to fly OVER the street and didnt make it...
Luckily the car stopped, or we both woulda been dead!


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

Ok, still have this gal, she is a pretty bird. She has stopped any wet breathing, and doesnt have any canker left. I wormed her, and am letting her out to fly a bit here and there. I will have to release before my big trip on the 13th, so i need advice on this one, it worries me...


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

xxmoxiexx said:


> Ok, still have this gal, she is a pretty bird. She has stopped any wet breathing, and doesnt have any canker left. I wormed her, and am letting her out to fly a bit here and there. I will have to release before my big trip on the 13th, so i need advice on this one, it worries me...


Sounds like she will be alright. Until the 13th she has enough time to get back in shape.
You've done a great job with her.

Reti


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