# ivermectin vs. fenbendazole



## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

Hi all,

I have a pigeon in my care recovering from a fractured femur. Turns out she has Capillaria; I've been waiting for her to gain some strength before deworming her. (She's been with me just over a week now.)

I've read here that some people have problems with Panacur. I have used it successfully, but I have had two cases where the birds started passing blood in their droppings after being given it and later died. I'm debating whether I should use Panacur with this bird at a low dosage (like 10-20 mg/kg) or if I should switch to Ivomec (which I've never used internally before).

Any opinions on which is safer of the two?

Thanks,
Jennifer


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I use the Ivermectin and find it easy and safe to use to use.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I use garlic caps to worm any weak/rehab birds, it not only rids them of all kinds of pests/parasites, but builds up their immune system. Once the bird is in better health I would use Ivermectin. Panacur is harsh on pigeons, especially if the dose is incorrectly given.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Ivermectin is safer. We used Panacur for several years and still do on occasion. If the correct dose is given, Panacur is safe - but why run the risk? Our vet told us just within the past week that Ivermectin has a wide safety margin in that if you do give a little too much it would not hurt anything. I can't say the same about Panacur.

We had a bird last year with a particularly difficult case of worms that was treated with Pyranatel, Ivermectin and finally Panacur which did the trick.


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## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

Thanks for all the replies. The ivermectin I have is the injectable Ivomec cattle solution, I think. I gather from reading here that the dosage would be 1-2 drops PO? How many consecutive days should it be given, or do I stagger the doses? (With Panacur, I've been told 25 mg/kg q24 x 5.) Re-reading the ivermectin dosage thread, I see 3 doses 7-10 days apart recommended. If anyone has different ideas, please let me know.

One other question that might sound silly. If I want to give 1-2 drops, are we talking about drops from an insulin syringe or from a TB syringe? The insulin syringe drops will be smaller. And is it safe to put directly in the mouth?

Thanks,
Jennifer


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## little bird (Aug 11, 2006)

2 or 3 drops from an insulin syringe directly in the wide open mouth....no need for needle to touch bird.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I give Ivomec once and then again 3 weeks later. it works great and like already mentioned, has a wide safety margin. I gave my birds once 10 times the recommended dose injectable (by mistake of course) and they were all fine. I am glad it wasn't Panacur I gve them.

Reti


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

Charis, Tressa, Maggie, Reti: Where / how do you get the Ivermectin? Are Ivermectin and Ivomec the *exact* same thing? This drug is available and used in so many forms, I am trying to figure out what to purchase.  If everyone answers and all the answers are different, at least I will be sure to find *something* that I can get good advice/instructions for! Thanks..


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/catalog/519-584.html

Here's the different types. The picture is what I use. Depends on whether you want to dose individually or in the water.


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

Thanks, I begin to assemble my worming references 

See, the list there is:
Ivomectin (is this an injectible?)
Ivomec (drench)
Ivermectin (injectible)
does anyone know quite what the differences are? The names are similar but ??? I spose I can go research it online, but asking here counts as research too 

In fact, nothing there explicitly says "Ivomec injection" which is on the box in your picture! No wonder I am  !!

I don't' want to flock treat this time, I want to do each bird individually. Good excuse to grab and check them all out anyway. And, I know they need it. 

2nd question: How old should they be before worming them?


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I get mine from my vet.
I think three months old and up should be safe to deworm them.

Reti


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

You can buy what's pictured above at any feed store that caters to the cattle people. It can cost anywhere from $38 to $50. I paid $48 for my bottle but saw it in a Southern States store in NC last week for $38. Give them 3 drops and repeat in 10 days. It's got injection on the box because I ASSUME that cows get it in the butt by needle.  although I don't KNOW that. Don't have any cows.
PS: I always do my birds first thing in the AM before they have anything to eat or drink, then wait about an hour before I feed them. Don't really know if it's necessary or not, but that's what I do.


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

I guess Tractor Supply Co. will have some! Will stop this weekend and see!


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

TheSnipes said:


> I guess Tractor Supply Co. will have some! Will stop this weekend and see!


Yep, they should have it for sure. Ours does.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Snipes, it gets mighty confusing. We don't use Ivermectin so very often. We always start out with Pyrantel which we get from the vet. It is given by syringe (we use the 1 cc kind). If a pigeon has several different types of worms, Ivermectin is the best to use because it will take care of various types.

So, that said, I'll relate what is going on with one of our pigeons. His initial stool analysis showed roundworms and he was treated with Pyrantel. A couple of months later, he still had not improved that much so back to the vet. The stool analysis last week showed two different parasites, one roundworm and another I can't remember, so the vet said to dose him with Ivermectin (Ivomec). I already had a bottle they had made up for me last year with a good expiration date. But, here is where it gets tricky. Ivomec comes in different concentrations - 1%, 5% and some others. BUT, the pure 1% would take only a minuscule amount so most vets add a suspension to make it 0.1% which makes it easier to draw up. She gave me the formulary to figure out the dosage but after I started doing it, I began doubting my calculations and called her about the correct dosage. I still don't have an answer but hope to get one today. She said Ivermectin (Ivomec) has a wide safety margin.

To me, Ivomec, Ivomectin, and Ivermectin are one and the same. Injectable is for use with a needle and has the little gray cover that you can stick the needle in - same as with Baytril injectable. I just use a 1 cc syringe with a removable needle and after I have drawn it up, simply take the needle off. The drench is liquid, and, as I understand it, can be added to water for flock treatment.

I think that, based on what Nona, Renee and others have said that using the 1% and putting a couple or three of drops down the throat would be fine. They've used it very successfully over the years and I trust what they say. 

If anything I've written is incorrect, please let me know.....


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

Thanks Maggie. It is confusing, because there are so many variable concentrations and names out there  I do not want to do any harm to my pidgies


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Lady Tarheel said:


> Snipes, it gets mighty confusing. We don't use Ivermectin so very often. We always start out with Pyrantel which we get from the vet. It is given by syringe (we use the 1 cc kind). If a pigeon has several different types of worms, Ivermectin is the best to use because it will take care of various types.
> 
> So, that said, I'll relate what is going on with one of our pigeons. His initial stool analysis showed roundworms and he was treated with Pyrantel. A couple of months later, he still had not improved that much so back to the vet. The stool analysis last week showed two different parasites, one roundworm and another I can't remember, so the vet said to dose him with Ivermectin (Ivomec). I already had a bottle they had made up for me last year with a good expiration date. But, here is where it gets tricky. Ivomec comes in different concentrations - 1%, 5% and some others. BUT, the pure 1% would take only a minuscule amount so most vets add a suspension to make it 0.1% which makes it easier to draw up. She gave me the formulary to figure out the dosage but after I started doing it, I began doubting my calculations and called her about the correct dosage. I still don't have an answer but hope to get one today. She said Ivermectin (Ivomec) has a wide safety margin.
> 
> ...


That's my understanding as well. I love the stuff.


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## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

Can someone double check my math here? 

So if the dose of ivermectin is .2 mg/kg, a 260 g bird should get .05 mg. With the 1% solution, that would mean .005 ml, which is half a unit on an insulin syringe, right?

Thanks!


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## [MN]eXist^_^ (Feb 13, 2009)

love the info thanks! But one question. Is worming ok during breeding or while On eggs?


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

[MN]eXist^_^ said:


> love the info thanks! But one question. Is worming ok during breeding or while On eggs?


Hey! This threads almost 2 years old! But anyway, I don't worm while their sitting on squeakers.


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## [MN]eXist^_^ (Feb 13, 2009)

The search button is the key will worming affect furtility In the egg or young?


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## windmill Ranch (Sep 18, 2009)

HI,
Here is a tip on worming.
I have done this for years with out a problem. 

But I am not a vet ok!


If you have lots of pigeons and doves. Ivomec injectable cattle wormer is the way to go. You give 1 to 2 drops in the mouth per bird. It is safe and kills 99.999999% of worms. 
But it is expensive for the couple of dove person to purchase a bottle. And it does go bad. It has a date you must use it all up by.

You can go to a large animal vet - one who does horses and cattle. They can draw up a shot for you of ivomec injectable cattle wormer. Like the amount a person would use to worm one calf. It does not cost as much that way for a one time worming. 

Some large animal vets don't like to give out meds this way. Because you are not using it on cattle. So be prepaired to take like foy's info. on ivomec. Then the vets are normally okay with it. And you swear you won't use it in any other way. 

Problem is people think, "well if it is ok for doves" - Then lets use it on the dog..... And they kill something. 
But be understanding if the vet says no! 
I have horses and have used my vet for 20 years.

You can then repeat the ivomec worming 21 days later from the same shot. Then discard the rest. - Warning - Don't get it on your bare hands. It is not good for you. So use gloves. 

You can also by using a gloved hand. Put ivomec on a birds feet. It will kill most bugs in the feathers. Mites, lice etc. But it will not kill worms this way. Jim


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

An old Pigeon-Talk story about a Fenbendazole overdose situation:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f5/birds-dropping-dead-10546.html

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f5/vet-disagrees-10564.html

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f5/finally-some-good-news-10648.html

Pidgey


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