# Two pigeons rescued from Hawk attack help needed



## Vesna (May 13, 2006)

Hello,

In the past ten days I have rescued two pigeons attacked by a hawk in my yard. The first one had two wounds one on its chest and the other a large wound under the wing. I cleaned them both with a saline solution and took the bird to the Vet. He told me the wing was not broken(it does hang) and to keep cleaning it with a mixture of half peroxide to half water. The bird eats and drinks and though his poops were a little watery they seem to be doing better.

The second pigeon attacked I thought had died but when I looked closer found it alive. I had to chase after it a few times because the bird can fly but its mouth was open gasping for air and there was blood on the snow.
I brought the bird in and placed it in a box with warm towels around it. It stayed like that for a couple hours I tried to comfort it but the poor thing just kept its mouth open and looked terrified. Later that evening the bird finally moved, the next morning it was actually standing up so I checked for wounds and found some although not as big as the other birds(though there was lots of blood on the snow) I cleaned them and offered food and some pedialyte. The bird does drink well but it doesn't appear to take seeds down .
It picks them up and just kind of drops them. I sometimes hear a clicking noise from its beak or nose. The bird also has runny poops sometimes dark green mushy or other times kind of a dark mustard colour, watery. I weighed the bird and it weighs approx. 310 grams. The bird is very frightened and nervous(can't blame it) so it is very hard to handle and I don't want to add to the stress. The bird also has what looks like an old injury to its foot, it is missing the front of its middle toe. Can anyone offer advice? The bird does appear puffed up at times, it does fly,clean its feathers and stretch out both wings. Any help or advice for either is appreciated. Thanks


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## JGregg (Jul 28, 2003)

Thank you for saving the two pigeons! I'ts people like you that really make a difference by showing compassion for fellow creatures.

My advice would be to start antibiotics to stave off infection from the attack. Other members will be along with more advice.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

What medications, if any, do you have, Vesna?

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Vesna said:


> Hello,
> 
> In the past ten days I have rescued two pigeons attacked by a hawk in my yard. The first one had two wounds one on its chest and the other a large wound under the wing. I cleaned them both with a saline solution and took the bird to the Vet. He told me the wing was not broken(it does hang) and to keep cleaning it with a mixture of half peroxide to half water. The bird eats and drinks and though his poops were a little watery they seem to be doing better.
> 
> ...


I would give the bird a course of Baytril and Metronidazole. Do you have meds on hand and/or would the vet provide you with some? I don't remember the general whereabouts where you are, could you help out on this?

fp


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## Vesna (May 13, 2006)

Thank you for replying so quickly,

I have Baytril pills and I have the Foy's Starter Medicine Chest. I am located in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. The wound under the first birds wing has formed a hard scab, I have tried to gently pick at it but it is hard like a rock.
Should I put both birds on baytril?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, if the one was ten days ago, you'd have seen it going downhill by now if it was going to be suffering an infection from the attack. Dried blood in feathers make a formidable combination--like concrete. Soaking it with water doesn't even help a lot.

The other bird with the mustard-colored droppings is the bigger worry. That's what's signaling the rapid medications. There's got to be an anti-canker in the starter medicine chest. It might be Metronidazole and it might be something else. The Baytril and the anti-canker are the ones to try, though.

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

I would put the recent hawk attack on the combo and additionally get a topical antibiotic oinment (not creme)on the puncture wounds. I'd keep a close eye on the one that has scabbed over that an abcess didn't occur.

fp


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## Vesna (May 13, 2006)

Thanks for the advice.
I will check what type of medications are in the medicine chest.
I don't think Metronidazole is one of them.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

I think I noticed in an earlier thread that you'd found some at an aquarium supply store, perhaps if you don't have, you could replenish at the place mentioned in the past.

fp


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## Vesna (May 13, 2006)

Hello,

I just checked my medications and I have a Medpet 4 in 1 powder (which says not to combine with any other antibiotics). I have a Sulmet liquid. I have two types of Ronidazole, not sure what the difference is. They both came in the kit, one is a 30 mg tablet and the other is a 10% powder.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

No Baytril?

What's in the Medpet 4 in 1? Also, full label if possible.

fp


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## Vesna (May 13, 2006)

I have Baytril (15mg tablets). The Medpet 4 in 1 powder contains Furaltadone 20% Ronidazole7%, says its for the treatment of Canker, E. Coli, Paratyphoid and Coccidiosis. I am not familiar with any other medication other than Baytril. I did obtain some pills before from the fish supply store and gave them to the bird I was treating at the time along with Baytril, unfortunately she did not survive.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Furaltadone is a funny one--I haven't found much about the pharmacokinetics and I went lookin' months ago.

Did you give all the pills to the bird that didn't make it? There wasn't anything left over?

Giving an example if this bird was a 300 gram bird, you'd be looking at giving it from a tenth to a third of the Baytril pill twice a day (that's one protocol--it's not the only one). The 10% Ronidazole powder probably has mixing instructions for a large batch which we can reduce to something more single-pigeon sized. What do the instructions say?

Pidgey


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## Vesna (May 13, 2006)

The bird I was treating last spring died while receiving these medications for a few days, I wasn't able to finish. The Ronidazole 10% says to mix 1 teaspoon per gallon of drinking water for 5 days for treatment of canker.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

What's the smallest amount of powder that you can measure? You might have a set of measuring teaspoons with a quarter teaspoon being the smallest--that'd get you down to only making a quart at a time. If you can effectively cut that in half, then you'd only need to make a pint (16 ounces).

I'd go with the one-third of a pill, twice daily on the Baytril pill, by the way.

Pidgey


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## Vesna (May 13, 2006)

Thank you Pidgey,

There would be no problem giving both medications at the same time? 

I will be back on tommorow, I look forward to your reply.
Thanks again.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Vesna said:


> I have Baytril (15mg tablets). The Medpet 4 in 1 powder contains Furaltadone 20% Ronidazole7%, says its for the treatment of Canker, E. Coli, Paratyphoid and Coccidiosis. I am not familiar with any other medication other than Baytril. I did obtain some pills before from the fish supply store and gave them to the bird I was treating at the time along with Baytril, unfortunately she did not survive.


The Furaltadone used to be used for Paratyphoid and will get coccidiosis. If a tetracycline is added to it, is said to get stubborn/resistant canker-also hexamitiasis. This would be as a 'stand alone' drug and not in the mix formultion that you have (adding the tetracycline).

fp


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Vesna said:


> Thank you Pidgey,
> 
> There would be no problem giving both medications at the same time?
> 
> ...


You may give Ronidazole and Baytril at the same time. Ronidazole is in the same family as Flagyl/Metronidazole.

fp


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## Vesna (May 13, 2006)

Hello

Just came back from tending to the birds. The one with the wing injury is eating and drinking fine. The poops look good and the wound under the wing has a hard flat scab but I see no signs of an abcess.The wing still droops.

The other bird weighs in at 300 grams. I gave it one dose of Baytril this morning. I put one 25mg tablet into a syringe and disolve in 1ml water and give .25ml to the bird. The bird is very hard to handle. I even wrapped it in a towel and it still refuses to cooperate. I tried to put some seed in the back of its mouth but it refused. It does peck at seed on its own but hard to tell if it takes them in. Would it be o.k. to let it keep trying this way and to weigh the bird morning and night to see if it is feeding itself? I allow both birds to remain in a room not in a cage. I originally caged them and they were very upset they seem more relaxed this way. Should I keep the two of them seperated? I have been trying to look deep down the birds throat but so far I haven't seen any yellow bumps. I will try again. Would it harm the bird to treat it with the canker medicine if it does not have the illness?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Vesna said:


> The other bird weighs in at 300 grams. I gave it one dose of Baytril this morning. Would it be o.k. to let it keep trying this way and to weigh the bird morning and night to see if it is feeding itself? I allow both birds to remain in a room not in a cage. I originally caged them and they were very upset they seem more relaxed this way. Should I keep the two of them seperated? I have been trying to look deep down the birds throat but so far I haven't seen any yellow bumps. I will try again. Would it harm the bird to treat it with the canker medicine if it does not have the illness?



Thank you for taking these birds in your care. 

Would try to supplement feed the bird, because it may not have a perky appetite because it is sick, and also because of the Baytril. Perhaps a round of probiotics might help the appetite, if they don't hinder the medications effectiveness.

Can you seperate them? Since it is not clear what either of them have they do need to be isolated.

If the bird is in good shape otherwise, I see no problem giving him the canker meds. Keep the light limited in the room, hopefully that will help calm the bird.

I would certainly give both birds a round of garlic and other nutrition.


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## Vesna (May 13, 2006)

Hello,

I did see the bird eating just before dark this evenng. It prefers to pick the seed off the floor not from its dish. I will continue to monitor its appetite.
It will still rest with puffed up feathers and it still has very watery stools. It certainly gets stressed out and fights me when I handle it. I hope the Baytril will help improve the watery poops.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Vesna said:


> Hello,
> 
> I did see the bird eating just before dark this evenng. It prefers to pick the seed off the floor not from its dish. I will continue to monitor its appetite.
> It will still rest with puffed up feathers and it still has very watery stools. It certainly gets stressed out and fights me when I handle it. I hope the Baytril will help improve the watery poops.


Hi Vesna,

What we were looking for was the synergistic effect that Baytril and Flagyl combined have which is how we segued to Ronidazole. 

Regarding whether or not you can see canker or not, many times we only see the "tip of the iceberg" where canker is concerned. By the time the 'classic' button is visible, there frequently is a problem in an area that is simply not visible by opening the mouth and looking. It's a stress related disease that
rears its' head when the bird is under stressful conditions and a hawk, cat or dog attack and being inside a human's house would surely fall into this category. If you haven't started the Ronidazole, you might want to consider this as part of the medication therapy.

fp


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## Vesna (May 13, 2006)

Hi Feralpigeon

I am not very experienced with medicating birds. Should I medicate the bird right away with the Ronidazole. Pidgey said earlier 1/4 tsp. med. to 1 quart water.
I have a 16 oz measuring cup, could I half the medication and add it to the 16oz of water. I do not have a 1/8 tsp the smallest is 1/4 tsp. Do I replace the pedialyte and only provide this for her drinking water. I was worried that the two meds at once would be too much.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Vesna said:


> Hi Feralpigeon
> 
> I am not very experienced with medicating birds. Should I medicate the bird right away with the Ronidazole. Pidgey said earlier 1/4 tsp. med. to 1 quart water.
> I have a 16 oz measuring cup, could I half the medication and add it to the 16oz of water. I do not have a 1/8 tsp the smallest is 1/4 tsp. Do I replace the pedialyte and only provide this for her drinking water. I was worried that the two meds at once would be too much.


Baytril and Ronidazole are fine together, I'd make the mix and put the medicated water out for h/her as the only water source. You may have to measure it to make sure that the bird is actually drinking. It seems as though you've had the second bird for a couple of days? I think I would start to 'burrito' the bird and do some food and water assistance at this point to make sure that it is getting enough nutrition. You could do seed pops for the pij, just don't over do it. Have you ever syringed fluids?

fp


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## Vesna (May 13, 2006)

I tried earlier wrapping her in a towel and putting seeds in the back of her throat, she made it pretty hard and refused the seeds. I did see her eating. Does half of the 1/4 tsp (1/8) to 16oz sound like the proper dosage. She has been drinking fine so far and no I have never given liquids with a syringe before.
The bird and I appreciate all the help.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Vesna said:


> I tried earlier wrapping her in a towel and putting seeds in the back of her throat, she made it pretty hard and refused the seeds. I did see her eating. Does half of the 1/4 tsp (1/8) to 16oz sound like the proper dosage. She has been drinking fine so far and no I have never given liquids with a syringe before.
> The bird and I appreciate all the help.


The dosage that you're quoting me on is exactly what it said to use on the package. One teaspoon for a gallon is the same as saying one teaspoon for 128 ounces. Divide both by eight and you get the 1/8th teaspoon for 16 ounces. We rehabbers have to do stuff like that all the time to keep from throwing a lot of medications away. My vet once gave me a whole bunch of Keflex capsules and told me to mix 5 of them in one gallon of water, let the bird drink as much it wanted for one day, throw the remainder away and make a new batch the next day.

Forget that, I did the math to reduce it down to where there was very little to throw away to save medications for another day, another bird. I even acquired an electronic scale that measured down to within two milligrams. fp got one to so fp's used to doing the same. In time, you can save the money for the scale just based on saving medications if you do a lot of this kind of stuff.

Anyhow, you don't really need to throw the Ronidazole water away every day--it's not that kind of medication to go bad that fast. Just don't let the water get soiled.

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Vesna said:


> I tried earlier wrapping her in a towel and putting seeds in the back of her throat, she made it pretty hard and refused the seeds. I did see her eating. Does half of the 1/4 tsp (1/8) to 16oz sound like the proper dosage. She has been drinking fine so far and no I have never given liquids with a syringe before.
> The bird and I appreciate all the help.


Yes, go w/Pidgey's dose rate on Ronidazole and leave it in the water bowl. Measure fluids and solids that you put out and at the end of the day measure again--if unsure if the bird is eating/drinking enough.

Here's a link to a You Tube video Cyro51 made on feeding pigeons:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=uU1SO0ZJoow

This might help you get a better feel for what it all should look like and what
to expect. 

Just something to keep in mind, you can soak puppy/kitten chow in medicated
water and push to the back of the throat w/your finger allowing the bird to swallow itself. You break it into pieces small enough for the bird to swallow--they can swallow a green pea easily--and drain enough that it isn't dripping lots of water. The crop should not be overfilled, just squishy with
room to spare. I don't do much more than half the crop initially just because I want the bird to be comfortable and I don't know how it has been
feeding before I took it in, _if feeding assistance is required._. In other words, there are too many variables and I don't want to over do it, the assistance is to keep up the bird's strength and to get it to want to eat again if not eating enough food to maintain health.

See how it goes, and if the bird doesn't seem to be taking enough in on it's own, there are some links here on crop medicating and feeding.

fp


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Vesna, you can keep the excess that is made up and not used in the refridgerator to use on another day. Just change the actual water bowl every
day and clean before refilling.

That's how I do it anyway, fridge the excess and use another day 'til used or end of regimine. I usually reduce the amount they want you to mix up in my head and make a smaller amount. The scale comes in handy for dosing out a pill
or capsule where there are no mixing instructions, just the formulary and weight
of bird.

fp


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Here are some handy links for you to take a look at and 
have bookmarked for future reference:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=15683

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=16235

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=16368

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=8813

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=11919

May seem like alot but they all address different issues that 
folks run accross when taking in rescues.

fp


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## Vesna (May 13, 2006)

Thank you very much for the information and the links Feralpigeon your help is very much appreciated.


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## pigifan (Nov 2, 2005)

I just saw your thread.
Did the birds survive ?


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## Vesna (May 13, 2006)

I'm sorry not to follow up,

I have had two more rescues since then and things have been hectic to say the least. Both hawk attack birds are doing as well as can be expected. The first bird lost the part of it's wing which carries the flight feathers so it will never fly again, the hawk severed the ligament or tendon(not exactly sure which) The bird has been on Baytril for approximately two weeks. It has very good spirits. The second bird was also on Baytril, in case of wound infection and is eating,drinking and sometimes flying. This bird was already missing half of its middle toe(not from the hawk.) I am scared to release the one because I still have a big problem with the Hawk and Peregrine Falcon. I can't believe how quickly they attack and kill. Sadly I was not able to help other birds (including two pigeons) who were killed. The pigeons are used to being fed in my yard along with other birds but I have stopped because these two could just come and take whatever bird they desired. They still show up and wonder where the food is which is hard for both of us but I can't think of any other way and I do not want anymore of these birds I care for being mutilated.


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