# wild cats getting my birds



## eyespyer (Jul 14, 2008)

I have some wild cats in my neighborhood and I am almost positive that they got one or two of my birds. I am not sure how to get rid of them other than traps; this might be my only option.

Any ideas on what can be done?


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

I am in favor of traping them as long as you use a have-a-hart trap that way no one get hurt you the niebor or the cat. You will have to take it to animal control or go for a 40mi drive and drop it off at a farm. Some people wont like it but thats what I do. My loft is not Dave's dinner so I take them to a farm thats just what works for me.
Dave


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

eyespyer said:


> I have some wild cats in my neighborhood and I am almost positive that they got one or two of my birds. I am not sure how to get rid of them other than traps; this might be my only option.
> 
> Any ideas on what can be done?


Are you sure it is wild cats?

IF they are actually getting into your loft/s, you need to secure it better. Make sure all doors are locked and you use hardware cloth with heavy gage over any openings.


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## Jivu (Feb 1, 2010)

...Please don't try to relocate any cats- if it is someone's pet, you sentence a family to needless heartache, and a companion animal to a miserable death.
The cat(s) very may well have a very caring and concerned owner, who may not know that their pet is being a nuisance. If you CAN find the owner, you can inform them that an outdoor cat is considered by animal control to be a stray, let alone the health risks to the cat (an outdoor cat lives an average of 1-3 years), and to the local wildlife and pets.
If you cannot find the owner, I'd say trap it and take it to the local animal shelter. If the cat does have an owner, they can find it there, and perhaps learn the benefits of an indoor cat.
Trapping a cat and releasing it elsewhere, farm or no, could easily be the death of the cat--just because it can catch a caged bird does not mean that it take care of itself. And if it does have a family looking for it, they never will find it (but they will probably get another outdoor cat!)
Regardless, you should work to keep your birds more secure-- are you even sure that it was a cat at all?


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## soymi69 (Nov 12, 2007)

If the owner are responsible they wont let their cats roam around. Go to your nearest animal shelter and borrow traps use tuna as bait, I caught 3 cats and an opposum in my yard, now I don't have to worry about any predator other than hawks.


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## Jivu (Feb 1, 2010)

Just to be said- there are tons of responsible owners who love and cherish their cat, but don't fully understand the err of letting their cats outdoors. There are many people under the assumption that cats need to have access to the outside world to be happy, when they actually thrive indoors. Allowing them to take their cat back from the shelter could be the realization they need, and if they are made aware of the trouble their pet is causing, they may very well be happy to comply.
If their cat just disappears and they can't find it, they'll most likely get another cat sooner or later, and that one will almost certainly be an outdoorsy cat also.


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## jeff houghton (Jul 17, 2010)

I agree .How can you distinguish a wild cat from some kids pet.Its not fair to lead acat to its death for doing what comes natural.Ive lost birds to cats in the past through my own stupidity and never once did i seek revenge.If and im not saying it is but if your loft is unsecure or you leave your birds unattended thats your responsibility .THere will always be cats about what you gonna do ,catnap them all. I hope you do the right thing.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

the people who let their cats out to roam and kill birds can go get them at the shelter and bail them out...maybe then they will keep them indoors where they should be... get animal control to set traps for you and warn the neighbs...


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

I make the neighborhood and feral cats work for me!.....They hang around my yard at night, My loft is a fort knox - they can't get to my birds......but they hang around and dream about it - they've even given up climbing the mesh on the aviary 
And while their hanging out, their sure taking care of my rodent problem 
SECURE YOUR LOFT
And just to ad...My birds aren't even afraid of them anymore because they know they can't get to them.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

spirit wings said:


> *the people who let their cats out to roam and kill birds can go get them at the shelter and bail them out...*maybe then they will keep them indoors where they should be... get animal control to set traps for you and warn the neighbs...


Sadly...in most instances that won't happen and the cat will be killed for doing what is natural to them. 
Certainly, many of us can understand how those cat owners feel about letting their cats outside as we let our pigeons outside when it isn't safe because we believe that *a bird has got to fly*!

I think Trees' question about are you sure it was a cat, was a very good one. Please don't assume so unless you have positive proof. There are many other critters out there that will just as likely take a pigeon.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Charis said:


> Sadly...in most instances that won't happen and the cat will be killed for doing what is natural to them.
> Certainly, many of us can understand how those cat owners feel about letting their cats outside as we let our pigeons outside when it isn't safe because we believe that *a bird has got to fly*!
> 
> I think Trees' question about are you sure it was a cat, was a very good one. Please don't assume so unless you have positive proof. There are many other critters out there that will just as likely take a pigeon.


 cats are predators....we don't let human killers out on the streets either. house cats kill more song birds than any predator out there.. it is best to trap them... but of course let the neighberhood know and perhaps they will keep their cat in as it should be.. If my pigeons were killing the neighbors beloved pets.. flying days would be over..but pigeons are prey not the other way around. Iam just going by what he has stated that the predator is cats.. hope he would know that before he posted.


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## jeo73 (Aug 1, 2010)

why just not cat proof ur loft, if a cat can coming, that means another critter can coming, check ur floors, holes, etc, i keep a german shpard next to my loft overnight, never had any problem, a beagle dog will be even better, they r noisy, but effective


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

For the record, any cat, even your own, is a liability. We have a cat proof loft. But a missed landing and "bang"! My cat working on my bird. 

Bird survived, but we learned a valuable lesson. Cats and birds are typically a bad combo. 

Of course a cat _can_ get along fine with birds. Just has to start very early in its life.


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## jeo73 (Aug 1, 2010)

well, i have 2 cats, 1 inside all the time, and the other goes in and out, i have seem my outside cat getting close to the loft and looking at it, but thats how far she goes, but like u said, she s being around pigeons since she was a baby, so she wont harm the, also, i leave my dog outside overnight, it does wonders, but i have chain link fence inside concrete on the floor, them i have chicken wire on top of that, where i live there s not 2 many hawks, but cats are thick, and like i said, each loft should have a dog, a critter killer.


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## The_Dirteeone (Apr 18, 2010)

I agree with spirit on this one.Just because the cat wants to kill,doesnt mean he will get to kill my birds.I have a neighbor who has had animal control called so many times they finally took his 2 dogs ,its about time.They still have a cat that jumps my 6 foot tall privacy fence to check out my birds,but it cant harm them.Some people just arent considerate when it comes to thier pets.When I saw nice scratches on my new red truck,I was going to rid or thier cat,but I didnt.I wont let snakes,rats dogs or cats live out thier natural instincts on my property,and I dont allow my pets to go out of my yard.I would have to take care of the strays my way,if there were no owners.And no I wouldnt kill them just take em for a long ride.


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## jeo73 (Aug 1, 2010)

animals are animals, and they are gonna follow their instincts, u can t be mad at a cat, cause he wants to eat ur bird, nevertheless u can make it easier by taking some steps, a nice loft, a dog, traps, whether the darmm cat has a collar or not, if i catch him, he s going to the animal shelter, and the owner will have to pay to get him out, now, if i have the same cat eating my birds, them i will eat the cat, and invite his owners for supper, cats and rabbits are very similar, they wont even notice, just kidding, i feel that is not the animals faults, but the owners, nevertheless, i cant afford a cat eating my birds, specially if s not wild, i would say, yes, i would harm that cat eventually, if the owner dont pay for my birds, ?wouldnt the neighbor make u pay or sue u if ur dog bite him, same, people should be responsible for their animals.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

The problem with pet cats is there owners most often. Many and most cat owners that let there cats outside lets them roam as they want. Where the SAME LAW applys to the cats as do the dogs they must be on a leash or chain or in a pen so they do not leave the owners property. Then many and most owners when turned in and animal control talks to them . they denie owning the cat. Then there are feral cats They are a problem. But many a feral cat started out as a pet cat abanonded by its owner and then had more cats. Talk to animal control they will tell you the same thing I have said. Because i have takled to them many a time and heard this same story over and over. Yes cats hunt But they cause many problems So A responisble Owner is 1 thing But there is more that are not good owners. Trap the cats and send the to animal control. If a owner wants it back let the owner pay the fine And if you catch it agin send it back to animal control. Cats only belong free in the wild in there country which is not the U S A


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

I said some people wouldn't like it. The shelter is about 60 mi from me and they do not pick up. So I take them to a dairy farm where they have cats if I get a cat with a colar I keep them in a pen for 2 days with just water, they never come back when I let them out. We do have a leash law in town if they can't respect that why should I.
Dave


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

My option may not be the best but there are no guns involved.
Dave


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2010)

I have wild cats here and have never had a problem with them at all while I am out ther with my birds .. the only thing I do have a problem with is the coopers hawks and there is very little control over that even while out with my birds cuz they just dont care if I am there or not to defend them  cant see how cats would be a problem if you are there to keep your birds safe whiule they are out thou


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

ZigZagMarquis said:


> Content removed/original post deleted


Moderators:

Why would you allow this post to stay on here? Would you allow the same post to stay on here if it was someone speaking about controlling nuisance pigeons?

I find it offensive and distasteful!


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## jeff houghton (Jul 17, 2010)

Most people are against hurting the cats or catnapping them.THere will always be a few idiots!!

Here in the uk we have the mentality that cats are suppossed to roam and rightly so in my opinion.I know very few people who keep house cats.

Wouldnt like to say what i would do if i found the person responsible for my cats dissappearance.

Some people need to grow up ,people who hurt animals are cowards who were obviously bullied at school .!!

Ive lost my fair share of birds in the past .You have to be a man and take it on the chin its as simple as that.If people continually lose birds to cats , snakes, raccoons whatever then theres something you aint doing, end of.


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## pattersonk2002 (Jun 1, 2008)

*traping*

Just one word of caution for those who do choose to trap, Be ready to trap your local skunk and then tell me what happens, I am sure I am going to laugh. If you have that big of a problem call a pro or your human society for help. I am sure it will cost you but the problem will be humanly taken care of. 

I do trap and know how to set to catch what I am after (safely) and when it comes to cats I just let them sit in the trap for awhile and the fact that they did not like spending the night in a cage and then seing me in the morning with the water hose was enough for them to think twice about learking about. If they are dumb enough to come back for a secound try I just keep them in jail a bit longer as our government agencies will do to you when you disobey the the laws of the land, your land your laws, no cats. >Kevin

PS: By the time you let them out they are pretty angery little buggers but unhurt to go home. I have to say it can also be a ball game and strike three your out, SRY


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

Did the skunk trapping thing when we bought our house a million years ago (had a over population of truly feral cats many of which were very sick). Some hints:

1. Get used to smelling like skunk.
2. Get an old furniture pad and SOAK it in water for 24 hours. Skunk spray is oily and will come out of the pad.
3. If you are lucky enough to get a skunk, keep that pad mentioned in #2 between you and the skunk. 
4. THEY BITE! 
5. Do *NOT* put the trap in your car. Borrow a neighbors car. Preferably one you don't like. 
6. To move the trap wrap it in the furniture pad, then in a tarp _without_ holes. 

For the record, skunks will eat birds. We haven't seen any with our pigeons, but they liked to bother our chickens so I expect that skunks will eat pigeons too.


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## maniac (Sep 27, 2009)

Some people need to grow up ,people who hurt animals are cowards who were obviously bullied at school .!!

Ive lost my fair share of birds in the past .You have to be a man and take it on the chin its as simple as that.


That's a contradiction isn't it Jeff, it's acceptable to expect bird losses but not losses to other pets ?


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## pattersonk2002 (Jun 1, 2008)

*skunks*

TOOO funny Jaysen but so true. When you get a skunk there are not many things you can do except as you mentioned, get used to the smell for a few days. I have never had to deal with it but I have been told that if one is trapped, walk slowly with a blanket and cover the cage so he can't see you and spray you and walk the cage slowly where ever you plan to release it. 
I like the neighbors car thingy too LOL. Now for the release? you better know your trap and how to safly and slowly open the door and get ready to run. This actually goes for releasing cats, *****, possums, what ever, most will run for there lives but some will be very pissed off M/Fers and come right back at you. I have only seen this first hand with *****, most ran like no tomarrow but I had one turn and scare the, YES pee out of me, He did get a quick kick and on his way he went. >Kevin


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## jeff houghton (Jul 17, 2010)

Its not a contradiction .I ve got upset when cats have taken my birds but like i said it was my errors that allowed this to happen.And i certainly didnt think of taking revenge because of my stupidity.


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

Actually releasing an animal can be easy if you think it through. Most humane traps are made of 1" wire mesh. Get a 1x3x4 and cut it down to 1x3x2. Now rip it into 1x1x2 (which will have true dimensions of 3/4 x 3/4 x 2). When you get to the release site (which you should have permission to use) insert the pieces through the mesh to make a wall. DO NOT SKIP HOLES. *****, skunks and opossums are slinkier than you think. it helps to make the wall as far back as possible. Now open the door. once you are clear of the door, grasp the top 4 pieces and walk away quickly. 

This is the safest way I have found to do this. If you have a skunk it is tougher and you will need to make new rods.

And yes, I did borrow a car to move the skunk. It was from an in law though so all is good (read that how you want, it is probably correct). 

P2002, the thing with the skunks is the water. I did the soaked furniture pad after being forced to sleep in a tent for 2 weeks. You can see the sprayed fluid bead on the surface. Makes sense when you think about how hard it is to get oils off a dry, porous surface.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

jeff houghton said:


> Its not a contradiction .I ve got upset when cats have taken my birds but like i said it was my errors that allowed this to happen.And i certainly didnt think of taking revenge because of my stupidity.


When the law says cats must be on a leash or in a pen. Not to be allowed to roam free. Then the stupid person is the one who lets the cat loose isnt it. In the UK there may be no laws But here in the U S there is . It owners that allow it Cats hunt by nature. If a dog roams in my city first fine is 144 doolars second is 500 dollars. AND it is supposed to be the same for cats. At least mosr dog owners say its there dog where most cat owners say its not there cat.. And my belief is a cat belongs in the country where it can work for its food at a farm But in town it when let free creates problems that other people do not have to put up with.


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## jeff houghton (Jul 17, 2010)

I can understand what you are saying and if that is the law in the us then fair comment.

But if it is the Stupid owners who are to blame and it seems it is unless you have a big wild cat problem then take it out on them before people decide to take it out on the animals.If the laws were the same here and my neighbours cats were killing my birds my first port of call would be there doorstep to firstly have a quiet word and if this wasnt heeded have a loud word of such.It seems to me this law must be being ignored by certain owners and yes then you are right to be angry but like you quoted it is the owners who should get it in the neck.
I hope all you people who do have problems with neighbours cats can come to a peaceful solution surely thats best for all concerned.Thats all im trying to say.I do not intend to rile anybody thats for sure.


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## eyespyer (Jul 14, 2008)

OK, first off I want to say that the cats in question are not pets per say. I had a guy down the street that was feeding them and they would hang out at his place, but he moved and did not take them with him. I really do not think they belonged to him, I think he felt sorry for them so he gave them some scraps. I have a rather large shed that the cats have been going into and sleeping making babes and whatever else cats do. I have stopped that by putting my dog in the shed at night. He does not hurt them but chases them off. He is a small dog, but big enough that the wild cats do not hurt him. I have three or four cats in the area that have been around for a long time, (one that I call him bad eye bill, he has a bad eye) when they have had babies the babies do not stick around very long. I think that maybe coyotes get to have an easy dinner. The older ones are the ones that I want to get rid of. If I wanted to kill them then I would have done that. Animal control has come out, but the older cats are too smart for them. They will not let me barrow a trap, why I do not know. If I catch them then animal control will take them. They will most likely kill them as that they would not make good pets. I caught one day with my hands, caught him off guard. It was like catching a bob cat. Mean as hell. That cat was not a pet. 

I have been working hard with my birds and really enjoy them, and it really upsets me when a wild cat gets one.

That is why I asked this group for ideas. 
Thanks for all who have posted comments; any more ideas are very welcome.


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## eyespyer (Jul 14, 2008)

Trees Gray said:


> Are you sure it is wild cats?
> 
> IF they are actually getting into your loft/s, you need to secure it better. Make sure all doors are locked and you use hardware cloth with heavy gage over any openings.


they are not getting into the loft. The birds loft fly and and the cats are hunting them down when they land around the loft.


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## jeo73 (Aug 1, 2010)

there s no difference between a hawk that hunts ur birds and a wild cat, they r both out to eat ur birds, a wild cat is not a pet, ?what would be the difference, none, but as humans we should recognize that animals are animals


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## FriendoCritters (Aug 5, 2010)

eyespyer said:


> They will not let me barrow a trap, why I do not know.


They probably won't lend out the trap because people set the trap and then don't check it. You might intend to trap a feral cat who has targeted your birds, but the trap can trap anything, like someone's pet, and then the poor animal dies of heat stroke or thirst in the trap. People are supposed to check a set trap every hour or so, but they don't. Animal organizations don't want to be responsible for cruelty to animals, and there may be a liability issue as well.

Just thought you like to know. I had to trap a feral cat one time. It made me sad because the cat was very wild and frightened, but I did not leave it long in the (have a heart) trap.


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## jeo73 (Aug 1, 2010)

cats are smarter than many people, a cat is smarter than a dog, i used not to be familiar with cats till i married a cat person, now i love them, if u have a criter proof loft, and u doing averything in ur power to raise ur birds, and a cat is eating ur birds, there are humane ways to deal with it, u can buy traps at orschelins, be sure if u catch a feral cat, that u spay or neuter , them release him away from ur place, at least 14 miles, animal s are animals and by hurting 1 we become no less animals than they are. there s always something u can do, get a dog, get a water house, raise ur loft, clear the brush around it, cats are just btrying to survive in a wild enviroment, maybe if u get some feed and feed them heavily away from the house, they will be full and wont try to eat ur birds. we have to be better than cats as humans, i have 2 cats 1 inside and 1 outside, they get fed so much that they r fat, better that than having them eating my birds


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## jeff houghton (Jul 17, 2010)

Jeo 73.Absolutely spot on.That has been the most sensible comment on this subject.


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## jeo73 (Aug 1, 2010)

catnap,. lol


spirit wings said:


> the people who let their cats out to roam and kill birds can go get them at the shelter and bail them out...maybe then they will keep them indoors where they should be... get animal control to set traps for you and warn the neighbs...


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

jeff houghton said:


> I can understand what you are saying and if that is the law in the us then fair comment.
> 
> But if it is the Stupid owners who are to blame and it seems it is unless you have a big wild cat problem then take it out on them before people decide to take it out on the animals.If the laws were the same here and my neighbours cats were killing my birds my first port of call would be there doorstep to firstly have a quiet word and if this wasnt heeded have a loud word of such.It seems to me this law must be being ignored by certain owners and yes then you are right to be angry but like you quoted it is the owners who should get it in the neck.
> I hope all you people who do have problems with neighbours cats can come to a peaceful solution surely thats best for all concerned.Thats all im trying to say.I do not intend to rile anybody thats for sure.


True. trapping the cats or simpley catching them does not harm them. Even if cats are not getting in a loft They do frighten the birds trying to get to them. Just as a dog would at least frighten them trying to get to them in a loft. Where Hawks Are protected and if birds are out or even loft trap is not closed they get birds. AND nothing legal can be done. I am just saying cats do cause problems Because they hunt. and because they have been imported to about every country. Where they do not belong but was wanted by humans So need some kind of control not to cause others problems.


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## maniac (Sep 27, 2009)

Cats are no more suitable as pets than are rats. You cannot teach a cat much because they are not intelligent enough to respond to a reward system. Many cat owners are selfish, they allow their cats free roam and that is wrong. Cats *ARE* the biggest killers of songbirds in a suburban area, they defacate in childrens sandboxes and peoples gardens. The stench of their urine is often unbearably and almost impossible to remove. They should only be kept on farms where their natural ability to catch vermin is useful.

Bird owners have the responsibility to ensure the safety of their birds on the grounds of their properties and that includes the removal of ground predators like cats, weasels etc. Picture the poor squab on it's first flight, awkward and clumsily being grabbed by pet cat, terror stricken as the cat drags it off to slowly and cruelly rip to pieces.

Catch the cats and get rid of them any way you see fit. Any cat owner who is so ill informed and ignorant and allows their pet to roam free doesn't deserve to have one.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

My 3 cats are indoor cats.
But in Maine and NH - there is NO LEASH LAW for CATS.


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## FriendoCritters (Aug 5, 2010)

maniac said:


> Cats the biggest killers of songbirds in a suburban area


I believe that lawn chemicals and other kinds of pesticides and herbicides on plants and in water have drastically reduced songbird numbers. Decline in habitat, etc. There are plenty of scholarly articles to that effect, and it has been a major concern to those wishing to protect wildlife since at least as far back as the 1950s, with DDT nearly wiping out many species of birds. Yet we continue to let anyone buy poisonous chemicals and spray them around anywhere they like, they don't even have to be able to read the label. I have 4 times caught a non-english speaking day laborer hired by my neighbor, spraying poison that drifts onto my property. They spray it right next to my organic garden that I eat out of every day, right next to my roses bushes, which turn black and drop their buds, right next to my pets, and the ground that my pets lay upon. (My vet says that cancerous tumors on pets has increased many times over what it used to be and that the tumors are usually on the bottom of their bodies which would contact the poisoned grass when standing or lying down). They don't have to put up a sign saying that they will be spraying, when, or what it is, or anything. But I know that this neighbor was a big commercial (chemical-using) farmer, and I suspect that he is spraying the worst kind of round-up (there are about 40 kinds) which sticks to weeds and can be applied right before it rains. Bees and frogs are also victims of chemicals in the environment (and people, there are direct causal links between chemicals and disorders such as asthma and autism and cancer), and cats aren't responsible for their decline.

I maintain that killing every cat, isn't going to save the songbirds, if we keep letting any fool buy poison, spray it anywhere, and dump it into the water. 

Do you want to eliminate the owls and hawks as well? I believe that because there are so few of those, gophers are a huge problem in a lot of places, like wherever anyone is gardening. 

The problem is really not cats. If a house cat is the most fierce-some predator in the ecosystem, the ecosystem is imbalanced, probably dying.

A lot of cats hunt gophers and mice and that is a good thing. I have read historians lay the blame for the Black Plague which killed off nearly half of Europe on the drastic reduction of the cat population that resulted from the Catholic Church's witch-hunts and identifying cats with witches and Satan.

That said, feral cats _are_ a problem, and most communities have procedures for dealing with them, contact animal control and see what you can do. Although cats are legally allowed to roam free, a property owner doesn't have to put up with a nuisance animal. That must be some procedure for catching them and bringing them in. The owner has a responsibility to prevent their pets from being a nuisance to other residents. Animal control enforces that, at least around here. 

Some pet owners are not responsible enough. A cat, like a dog, should have provided for it a suitible environment. My cats have a pleasant yard and don't wander. A neighbor took offense to her cat always spending time at my yard, but she doesn't water her yard, or plant cat nip. I also think that some owners aren't feeding their cats enough or quality nutrition.

If cats are stalking your pigeons, set up a hoses with sprayers on the end (so you don't have to turn on at the faucet to use)and give em a good soaking on a regular basis. Most cats hate that and will stay away. 

I take exception to the suggestion to feed cats who are after pigeons. If you don't want the cats around, don't feed them. It's not necessarily hunger that drives cats to hunt, it's instinct, and this instinct becomes like a sport. I have a very well-fed (young) cat who is obscessed with hunting birds. He will eventually learn, as my other cats have, that birds are friends, not food. But unless someone makes consistent repetetive intelligent attempts to teach, they won't learn. Also, a hungry cat will hunt. Because nature trumps nurture.

One thing that you might do is set up an electric fence around your loft? I heard that works. Also if your birds tend to come and go at certain times, you can water the perimeter before then. Most cats don't even like to walk on wet humus-y ground. They hate mud on their feet. What might work is an electric eye, so that if a cat crosses the perimeter, a sprinkler turns on and sprays the cat.


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## velo99 (Apr 8, 2007)

Feral cats and BOP are the biggest predators of the songbirds. Mans interference in the case of the BOP and pure ignorance on the part of people not keeping thier cats under control. There are groups in the US that actually feed and medicate the feral cats. As bird owners we all know about the groups that think the BOP is a cute and cuddly bird that still needs protection. Thier political donations and the funding by these groups have tripled the numbers of BOP. They no longger need the protection of the federal government but cash talks and common sense walks in this day and time.


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## Jivu (Feb 1, 2010)

maniac said:


> Cats are no more suitable as pets than are rats. You cannot teach a cat much because they are not intelligent enough to respond to a reward system. Many cat owners are selfish, they allow their cats free roam and that is wrong. Cats *ARE* the biggest killers of songbirds in a suburban area, they defacate in childrens sandboxes and peoples gardens. The stench of their urine is often unbearably and almost impossible to remove. They should only be kept on farms where their natural ability to catch vermin is useful.
> 
> Bird owners have the responsibility to ensure the safety of their birds on the grounds of their properties and that includes the removal of ground predators like cats, weasels etc. Picture the poor squab on it's first flight, awkward and clumsily being grabbed by pet cat, terror stricken as the cat drags it off to slowly and cruelly rip to pieces.
> 
> Catch the cats and get rid of them any way you see fit. Any cat owner who is so ill informed and ignorant and allows their pet to roam free doesn't deserve to have one.





Juuuuuust sayin'...
My cat is EXCEEDINGLY intelligent. I have taught her nearly as much as I have taught my dog (in a fraction of the time), and far more than I have trained my pigeon 

She can sit, shake, sit up "pretty", spin in a circle, jump over my arm or an object, play fetch, and use the toilet. She is also gifted at opening drawers and getting into things she shouldn't, which does take a deal of cleverness on her part 
Rats are also easy to train.

It is also a pigeon owner's responsibility to proof their loft. If it is secure, a cat (or any other animal) can sit there all he wants, but he won't get anything from it. Anyone who would dispose of a cat "any way they see fit" should reevaluate owning pets themselves.


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

It is very unfortunate that the poster has had problems with wild cats, but some very good advice has been given here that I must agree with. A pigeon owner must take good measure to insure their pigeon quarters are safe from predators which are numerous... not just cats. I live in a area that has an abundance of racoons, possums and my share of feral cats and have not had a problem yet. Proper securement, HARDWARE CLOTH, and a lock at night is the key to maintaing safe pigeons. Almost everyday I check the area around my coop and adjoined aviary for wild animal evidence as well. It only takes a few seconds to inspect the area.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

Msfreebird said:


> My 3 cats are indoor cats.
> But in Maine and NH - there is NO LEASH LAW for CATS.


Same in Massachusetts...wouldn't matter if there was. There is a leash law for dogs but it doesn't stop six different dogs from our neighborhood from coming in and shlttlng in my yard.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

velo99 said:


> Feral cats and BOP are the biggest predators of the songbirds. Mans interference in the case of the BOP and pure ignorance on the part of people not keeping thier cats under control. *There are groups in the US that actually feed and medicate the feral cats.* As bird owners we all know about the groups that think the BOP is a cute and cuddly bird that still needs protection. Thier political donations and the funding by these groups have tripled the numbers of BOP. They no longger need the protection of the federal government but cash talks and common sense walks in this day and time.


My wife and I used to feed ferals at our last residence. We also used to trap them, take them to the local shelter to be neutered, and release them back after they were done. Then, they could have all the fun they wanted, but no babies.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Well...golly...


My own situation here...is one of having Two born wild/feral Cats who have become good friends.

One a Tom, the other a Female.


Long story short, Tom's mom communicated to him when he was a Kitten, not to mess with any Birds here.

His mom, I got to know slowly over a long time, and, she was extremely 'Wild' and other than me, no one could ever get anywhere near her.


I invited her in here to catch and eat Mice, and I explained to her about the Bird scene, and, she was impeccible, and over time, became a very nice friend.



Her, Tom, or Miss Tabby, would walk conspicuously around any grazing Birds, and or around any 'grounded' Bird who happens to arrive for presenting him or herself.

The Cats understand perfectly well the Bird scene here, and, have been impeccible with it.


Later, Tom's Mom...she brought her old-enough Kittens over, and, introduced them to me, and, she did a few rounds over a week or so, of showing them about catching Mice, then, tacitly, I supposed, figured I would show them whatever else there was to it, for how to catch Mice, which, I did, and the older Kittens and I would hunt Mice together.


Kittens, as with Tom and Miss Tabby, are never restrained from coming or going.


Of the several Kittens, only Tom survived the wider vicissitudes or difficulties of the neighborhood ( older, run down, depressed, bleak, dessicated, innercity, 'eraserhead-like' industrial slum skid-row area ).

Anyway, with this, the 'territory' here in which my Home-Workshop and amenities are situated, belongs to Mr. Tom, and, to Miss Tabby ( who Tom brought here as a starving Kitten, and she took over a month, nay, six or seven weeks or slow patient and calculated effort, for me to get close to, but, now, she is very sociable and easy with me, loves 'Tummy Rubs' and so on, but will hide instantly if any one else people-wise is around).


So, if any other Cats happen to tresspass or to enter the property, Miss Tabby, young though she still is, tears out after them Like-a-Rocket, with her Tail all 'puffy', and chases them away very, very fiercely...attacking them if need be to assert her point.


I would say then that this is a good method for dealing with unwanted, tresspassing Cats -


Make friends with a Cat, share your space with them, have them to understand that no Birds are ever to be bothered, share your Food with them, do things which make sense for them in their terms, and, they then will become good friends, and, live 'with' you, and, will repulse, rebuke, chase off or attack, any tresspassing Cats who may wish to test the situation or challenge the 'Territory' your Cat is 'owner' of.



An other method I have heard of but never tried, is to obtain some Urine from a non-oestrus time Big Female Cat, or from a Male, such as a Leopard, Mountain Lion, Tiger, Jaguar, etc...and, sprinkle it around the perimiter of your property.

Supposedly, no wandering Dog or Cat will elect to test the situation once scenting the chemical info the Urine eloquently contains.


Possibly even Wolverine or Hyena Urine or other fierce Creature Urine would also work...dunno...



Although haveing a friendly, shared-space, food sharing, Bird respecting Wolverine, or Hyena, or Wart Hog, in itself, would likely work very well, also...of course...for rebuking any kind of tresspasser!


Lol...


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## maniac (Sep 27, 2009)

_"It is also a pigeon owner's responsibility to proof their loft. If it is secure, a cat (or any other animal) can sit there all he wants, but he won't get anything from it. Anyone who would dispose of a cat "any way they see fit" should reevaluate owning pets themselves."_

I am not too sure of the point of this statement. Every loft owner I know goes to great lengths to secure their lofts from predators. I see new loft constructors on this site being reminded time and time again to change this or that feature to reduce the chances of their birds getting slaughtered. Yes some birds are loft prisoners and never fly outside but the majority of bird owners allow loft flights from *their property*. What right does some imbecile cat owner have to allow his animal access to my property ? ..... absolutely none.... so keep your bloody cats at home not sitting in front of my loft drooling at my birds.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

jeff houghton said:


> *I can understand what you are saying and if that is the law in the us then fair comment.*
> 
> But if it is the Stupid owners who are to blame and it seems it is unless you have a big wild cat problem then take it out on them before people decide to take it out on the animals.If the laws were the same here and my neighbours cats were killing my birds my first port of call would be there doorstep to firstly have a quiet word and if this wasnt heeded have a loud word of such.It seems to me this law must be being ignored by certain owners and yes then you are right to be angry but like you quoted it is the owners who should get it in the neck.
> I hope all you people who do have problems with neighbours cats can come to a peaceful solution surely thats best for all concerned.Thats all im trying to say.I do not intend to rile anybody thats for sure.



Most places in the U.S. cats are allowed to roam freely. There aren't usually laws to keep them confined or leashed.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Well too, even small Dog will succeed in preventing errent Domestic or feral Cats from tresspass.

Any kind of Dog is usually enough to scare away Cats for good.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

maniac said:


> _"It is also a pigeon owner's responsibility to proof their loft. If it is secure, a cat (or any other animal) can sit there all he wants, but he won't get anything from it. Anyone who would dispose of a cat "any way they see fit" should reevaluate owning pets themselves."_
> 
> I am not too sure of the point of this statement. Every loft owner I know goes to great lengths to secure their lofts from predators. I see new loft constructors on this site being reminded time and time again to change this or that feature to reduce the chances of their birds getting slaughtered. Yes some birds are loft prisoners and never fly outside but the majority of bird owners allow loft flights from *their property*. *What right does some imbecile cat owner have to allow his animal access to my property ? ..... absolutely none.... so keep your bloody cats at home not sitting in front of my loft drooling at my birds.*


You know...this is the exact argument that I have heard from people who are opposed to pigeons in their neighborhoods. "What right does some imbecile pigeon owner have to allow his animal access to my property?" Maybe think about that before you let your birds loft fly...sitting on your neighbors' new car pooping all over the place.


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## velo99 (Apr 8, 2007)

ptras said:


> My wife and I used to feed ferals at our last residence. We also used to trap them, take them to the local shelter to be neutered, and release them back after they were done. Then, they could have all the fun they wanted, but no babies.
> 
> EYESPYER "I caught one day with my hands, caught him off guard. It was like catching a bob cat. Mean as hell. That cat was not a pet.
> I have been working hard with my birds and really enjoy them, and it really upsets me when a wild cat gets one."



Even though they are neutered they still have their killer instincts. They can still be infected with various diseases. They are still feral cats.


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## velo99 (Apr 8, 2007)

ptras 
Bird owners who dont control thier birds need to control them or keep them in the loft.
Then again some people who see bird poop on their car assume a pigeon that lives next door did it.


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## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

ptras said:


> My wife and I used to feed ferals at our last residence. We also used to trap them, take them to the local shelter to be neutered, and release them back after they were done. Then, they could have all the fun they wanted, but no babies.


Bravo to this and pretty much everything you've said. And speaking of "ignorance," I see lots of it in this thread, not only of the law but also of compassionate, respectful treatment of animals--not just the ones you choose to care about or profit off of.


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## jeff houghton (Jul 17, 2010)

Also well stated,we will have to accept that some peoples views will always differ from others no matter how messed up we think they are.


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## maniac (Sep 27, 2009)

You know...this is the exact argument that I have heard from people who are opposed to pigeons in their neighborhoods. "What right does some imbecile pigeon owner have to allow his animal access to my property?" Maybe think about that before you let your birds loft fly...sitting on your neighbors' new car pooping all over the place.[/QUOTE]


I think that you and a lot of other people here are not understanding the point. Every animal, bird, reptile keeper should be responsible for their charges. 

Cats were the subject of this discussion not raccoons nor snakes. All cat owners who read or take part in this thread should stop defending their positions that the onus should be on the loft owner to protect their birds from cats which only have access to the loft owners property because of the cat owners neglect to properly supervise _their_ animals.

That ... would be akin to telling your neighbor who's car had been shat upon to cover the car up.....

On the subject of my loft flown birds, I feel confident to tell you that I am a responsible flier and take care to see that my birds do not disturb my neighbors space.


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## soymi69 (Nov 12, 2007)

You know...this is the exact argument that I have heard from people who are opposed to pigeons in their neighborhoods. "What right does some imbecile pigeon owner have to allow his animal access to my property?" Maybe think about that before you let your birds loft fly...sitting on your neighbors' new car pooping all over the place.[/QUOTE]

Not all pigeon fancier let their birds sit their neighbors roof. Mine have there own schedule and never flown with a full crop. If I do fly them its either early in the morning and late in the afternoon when the neighbors are either asleep or still at work and they always land on the roof of the loft. So if my neighbors cat goes to my yard and prey on my birds I have the right to trap it and take it to the humane society. Now if my birds land on any of my neighbors roof then they can do anything to it even if they shoot it. Discipline your pets, be considerate to people then the world will be a better place.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

maniac said:


> I think that you and a lot of other people here are not understanding the point. Every animal, bird, reptile keeper should be responsible for their charges.
> 
> Cats were the subject of this discussion not raccoons nor snakes. All cat owners who read or take part in this thread should stop defending their positions that the onus should be on the loft owner to protect their birds from cats which only have access to the loft owners property because of the cat owners neglect to properly supervise _their_ animals.
> 
> ...


I understand exactly what you're saying. You value one life form over another, and need to justify that.

I feel confident that my cat is a responsible carnivore, and is never outside hungry. Therefore it is not sitting in my neighbors' yards drooling at their birds. I'm a responsible cat owner and I take care to ensure that my cat doesn't disturb my neighbors' space.

Because of this, I take offense at your original post labeling cat owners who allow their cats outside as irresponsible. The same may be said for your pigeons. Are they in your sight at all times they are outside?

And yes, if a neighbor complained about a pigeon pooping on their car, I would absolutely tell them to cover the car. And I would not be offended if my neighbor told me to build a more secure loft to keep animals from getting at my birds.

But we digress here...this post was about "wild cats" bothering his birds. My cat isn't a wild cat.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Back when my kids were little and the girls wanted a kitten Well you know i had to break down and get them one. I decided after thinking a bit If I made the kitten fear my pigeons then it would not bother them. Well I took it into the loft had some birds on eggs Put it by a bird sitting eggs and the bird gave it a few wing slaps The kittne grew up I think thinking the pigeons could give it a whipping never bothered any of my pigeons. But that was different A cat can be taught not to bother your birds But does not mean it wont bother someone elses. And at least here in my city and most the state the law is the same about cats the can not by law roam free Yes flying pigeons are free at the time. But they to must be trained. to never land any where but the loft that way they do not bother neighbors But people with cats like there cats just as much as they like there birds. Just every body else may not like that cat on there property. There is a difference respect your neighbors keep the cat home feral cats were one time a pet cat until some owner abandoned it And it had more and they had more. People like something then discard it cats dogs birds ect the problems happen and who suffers the cat dog ect.


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## maniac (Sep 27, 2009)

ptras said:


> I understand exactly what you're saying. You value one life form over another, and need to justify that.
> 
> I feel confident that my cat is a responsible carnivore, and is never outside hungry. Therefore it is not sitting in my neighbors' yards drooling at their birds. I'm a responsible cat owner and I take care to ensure that my cat doesn't disturb my neighbors' space.
> 
> ...


Boy oh Boy, you are really missing the point in your effort to justify your carnivore cat's free roaming.

Perhaps you've never bothered to watch your cat or other cats when they play. You probably buy them those cute little chase toys and enjoy their antics as they catch and snare them....

Has your cat never brought home an injured mouse or bird, something it has caught and toyed with ? if it hasn't, you must live in a sterile place. I dont care if you feed it til sundown, it may get full of food but it will still retain the ability to chase. House cats do not catch birds or mice because they are hungry, they catch them because they move in ways that attract carnivores basic instincts.

Oh, and I do not value one life form over another but there are times and circumstances when I will value one more than another, my dog vs the neighbors dog for instance


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

maniac said:


> _"It is also a pigeon owner's responsibility to proof their loft. If it is secure, a cat (or any other animal) can sit there all he wants, but he won't get anything from it. Anyone who would dispose of a cat "any way they see fit" should reevaluate owning pets themselves."_
> 
> *I am not too sure of the point of this statement. Every loft owner I know goes to great lengths to secure their lofts from predators.* I see new loft constructors on this site being reminded time and time again to change this or that feature to reduce the chances of their birds getting slaughtered. Yes some birds are loft prisoners and never fly outside but the majority of bird owners allow loft flights from *their property*. What right does some imbecile cat owner have to allow his animal access to my property ? ..... absolutely none.... so keep your bloody cats at home not sitting in front of my loft drooling at my birds.





I know how annoying other peoples cats bothering your loft can be. And a while back I had quite the incident with a moron neighbor whose cats terrorized my songbirds all day and kept them away from my feeders. When my dogs cornered his cat one day in the back yard, he came flying over the fence in an outrage. They didn't hurt the cat, as I got there first, but he actually felt that my dogs had no right in their own yard going after his cat. Turned into quite the thing. I had to call the police and have them pay him a visit, as he had threatened to shoot them. I took care of his cats. I just left out a live trap with cat food in it. Let the cat sit in it for a few hours, then hosed him down. He didn't come back. I don't like just relocating a cat, as it probably will not survive in the wild any better then one of your birds who gets lost. Some do and some don't. If it kept coming back, I would take it to a shelter. Unfortunately, cat owners have just as much right to let their cats out as you do your birds. Unless of course there is a leash law for cats, which most places do not have. How do you know where your birds go when they are gone for an hour or so? You just have to convince the cat that your property is really not such a good place to hang out. They will usually move on. But as far as people securing their lofts, there are way to many people who don't. People have come on here reporting that some animal or other broke into their loft that was predator proof.  If you are using chicken wire, it's not secure. And if you have a dirt floor in your loft or aviary, unless you have taken steps to insure that nothing can tunnel under, and BTW, rats can tunnel down 18 inches, it's not secure. And if you have openings where the roof sits on the walls, and have not covered them with hardware cloth, it is not secure. If there are spaces 1/2" or more, and not covered in hardware cloth, it is not secure. Many people have all these things going on. I would imagine that more people have lofts which are not secure than those that have secure lofts.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

soymi69 said:


> You know...this is the exact argument that I have heard from people who are opposed to pigeons in their neighborhoods. "What right does some imbecile pigeon owner have to allow his animal access to my property?" Maybe think about that before you let your birds loft fly...sitting on your neighbors' new car pooping all over the place.


Not all pigeon fancier let their birds sit their neighbors roof. Mine have there own schedule and never flown with a full crop. If I do fly them its either early in the morning and late in the afternoon when the neighbors are either asleep or still at work and they always land on the roof of the loft. So if my neighbors cat goes to my yard and prey on my birds I have the right to trap it and take it to the humane society. Now if my birds land on any of my neighbors roof then they can do anything to it even if they shoot it.* Discipline your pets, be considerate to people then the world will be a better place.[/QUOTE]
*


GOOD POST.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

I think the point people are trying to make here is that...If a cat can get into your loft - so can other things (raccoons, opossum, rats, snakes, etc). So the most logical response is "secure your loft"
If it's a case of "free flying" birds....not much you can do about that! You take a risk every time you let your birds out. Not only with cats, but raccoons, hawks, hunters, etc.
You can argue whether cats should be let outside until you are blue in the face and get nowhere!!
Cats hunt - its a fact of nature and your not going to stop them.
I keep my cats inside because I care about them. I don't want them hit by a car or taken as dinner by one of the local coyotes. They have "strict" orders to stay away from bird cages in the house 
Not ALL cats will hunt ...some are lazy, well fed pet cats will hunt out of instinct (prey movement), and bring his "trophy" home - but doesn't eat it  Ferals will hunt for food.
Your not going to convince all cat owners to keep their cats inside, period! Most states DO NOT have a leash law for cats, some owners believe their cat has the "right" to go outside, and some owners just don't care.
So....that leaves it UP TO the pigeon loft owner to protect their birds the best they can.......by securing your loft


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Jay3 said:


> I know how annoying other peoples cats bothering your loft can be. And a while back I had quite the incident with a moron neighbor whose cats terrorized my songbirds all day and kept them away from my feeders. When my dogs cornered his cat one day in the back yard, he came flying over the fence in an outrage. They didn't hurt the cat, as I got there first, but he actually felt that my dogs had no right in their own yard going after his cat. Turned into quite the thing. I had to call the police and have them pay him a visit, as he had threatened to shoot them. I took care of his cats. I just left out a live trap with cat food in it. Let the cat sit in it for a few hours, then hosed him down. He didn't come back. I don't like just relocating a cat, as it probably will not survive in the wild any better then one of your birds who gets lost. Some do and some don't. If it kept coming back, I would take it to a shelter. Unfortunately, cat owners have just as much right to let their cats out as you do your birds. Unless of course there is a leash law for cats, which most places do not have. How do you know where your birds go when they are gone for an hour or so? You just have to convince the cat that your property is really not such a good place to hang out. They will usually move on. But as far as people securing their lofts, there are way to many people who don't. People have come on here reporting that some animal or other broke into their loft that was predator proof.  If you are using chicken wire, it's not secure. And if you have a dirt floor in your loft or aviary, unless you have taken steps to insure that nothing can tunnel under, and BTW, rats can tunnel down 18 inches, it's not secure. And if you have openings where the roof sits on the walls, and have not covered them with hardware cloth, it is not secure. If there are spaces 1/2" or more, and not covered in hardware cloth, it is not secure. Many people have all these things going on. I would imagine that more people have lofts which are not secure than those that have secure lofts.


Excellent points!!!! 
I don't care how far you put the wire down "on the sides"...if the floor is not completely enclosed underneath, something will get in eventually!


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

My own limited experience with Cats, are the few feral-wild ones who I got to be friends with, and, I never restrained them form being out, or in...and, as I had mentioned, they never once bothered or stalked any Birds.

They defend their Territory against any other Cats who may come around, also.

Usual Urban or Sub-Urban settings, people often restrain their Cats to be indoor only, but, of course, some let their Cats out.


I have not lived in an Urban or Sub-Urban setting in 26 years now, and, I have no intention of ever doing so again.

Too many potential problems of many kinds if one has 'neighbors' close on at every boarder of one's Yard or property.


When I was living in a Sub-Urban setting, I had a sweet Loft/Aviary in the back yard, , and let them Fly for an hour or so every day right before Sunset...my Pigeons never sat on anyone's roof or anything, yet 'neighbors' were shooting the Birds who were in the Aviary with Air Rifle-Pellet Guns.


These were all rescues, who became their own Flock.


Anyway...I moved, and never looked back.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

And like I said earlier... I use the neighbors cats that hang out and feral cats to my advantage. - My loft is secure - but they still hang out and take care of any rodents that may come around


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Msfreebird said:


> And like I said earlier... I use the neighbors cats that hang out and feral cats to my advantage. - My loft is secure - but they still hang out and take care of any rodents that may come around


Now that's the up side to having them around!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Msfreebird said:


> Excellent points!!!!
> *I don't care how far you put the wire down "on the sides"...if the floor is not completely enclosed underneath, something will get in eventually!*



*AMEN! **BUT TOO MANY DO NOT LISTEN.*


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## Guest (Sep 4, 2010)

Msfreebird said:


> Excellent points!!!!
> I don't care how far you put the wire down "on the sides"...if the floor is not completely enclosed underneath, something will get in eventually!


I agree that this is soooo the truth , everything and anything is out there to make your loft a buffet ,you cant do enuf to protect your birds as wildlife of everykind is trying antesting your loft on a nightly basis ..any weakness in the loft and it is only a matter of time before they will find their way in and it aint prettay when you find out that you dint meet the challange


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## eyespyer (Jul 14, 2008)

My loft is raised off the ground with expanded metal for the floor. I have installed wire all the way around it and added two chickens inside. The cats can not get under the loft. the chickens have done a good job cleaning under the loft. 

As for the cats, I finally got a trap, and have relocated eight cats so far.

We will see how the rodent populate, that might be my next problem. 

Well the rats will not eat the birds...


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

eyespyer said:


> My loft is raised off the ground with expanded metal for the floor. I have installed wire all the way around it and added two chickens inside. The cats can not get under the loft. the chickens have done a good job cleaning under the loft.
> 
> As for the cats, I finally got a trap, and have relocated eight cats so far.
> 
> ...


Rats *will* kill pigeons!


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## hasseian_313 (Oct 31, 2009)

i agree its a sin to kill a cat in my religeion but if its some ones pet they shouldnt be letting it outside i like indoor cats i use safe traps and give the cats to the humain socity or shelter dropen it off at some oens farm is wrong it means it will eat some ones poultry and it can get shot so i leet the shelter get it never see any of the cats i droped off again .............. i win and the cat wins if it finds a good home but man the should be happy in some countries the kill em and some times not in the fast easy way i hope you get the cats and do the right thing


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## hasseian_313 (Oct 31, 2009)

oh usally put rat posin under the coop has worked but now i live it open and let a guard dog to run under the coop any one have german shepherd need a new home


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## dtrojcak (Aug 31, 2010)

eyespyer said:


> As for the cats, I finally got a trap, and have relocated eight cats so far.


Nothing like making the cats somebody else's problem.

More times than not, you would be doing the cat a favor by just killing it yourself rather than "relocating" it. A cat introduced into a new wild environment usually becomes a meal for the native animals or ends up starving to death, or some farmer/rancher like myself ends up having to shoot it for you when it starts attacking my poultry.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

eyespyer said:


> My loft is raised off the ground with expanded metal for the floor. I have installed wire all the way around it and added two chickens inside. The cats can not get under the loft. the chickens have done a good job cleaning under the loft.
> 
> As for the cats, I finally got a trap, and have relocated eight cats so far.
> 
> ...


That is alot of cats... must have a feral colony around you.. that is alot more than one person can handle... what a shame for both you and these cats...


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## Pip Logan (Oct 6, 2009)

Honestly, if u can get a dog. They are great pets and they do keep those pesky cats away.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Pip Logan said:


> Honestly, if u can get a dog. They are great pets and they do keep those pesky cats away.


that is good point.. alot of dogs need homes too! and a job....lol..


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

eyespyer said:


> My loft is raised off the ground with expanded metal for the floor. I have installed wire all the way around it and added two chickens inside. The cats can not get under the loft. the chickens have done a good job cleaning under the loft.
> 
> As for the cats, I finally got a trap, and have relocated eight cats so far.
> 
> ...



Relocating the cats is wrong. You are just giving the problem to somebody else, and usually, as has been mentioned, they will die. Not their fault. It's the fault of who ever wasn't responsible to begin with.

And I don't know why you believe that rats won't eat your birds. They will chew the heads right off. Rats kill pigeons, and mice will spread salmonella. Good luck! You were probably better off with the cats, who would keep the rodents away.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

I had some (feral?) cats here at my place. I just scare them away and they run away( but usually comes back later). With that I always watch my birds when they are outside. I am my pigeon's bodyguard. Initially I don't find it ok that there are cats, but since they might hunt for mouse/rats, then they may actually be helping me so I am ok with them now. All I had to do is to be vigilant that these cats don't get my birds.

Feral cats live a sad life. They are like feral pigeons trying to survive on their own, hunting for food.


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## HARO (Oct 29, 2010)

Please, please, please, people do not "re-locate" cats to the countryside. As a teen my family lived on a small farm, and every September when school started up again and folks moved back to the city from their cottages, we would be inundated with prts that were no longer wanted. Several dogs found a home with us, but the cats we usually found after they had been killed by whatever predators got them! Take any unwanted animal to the S.P.C.A. and do us all a favour!


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