# My Pigeon has a bit of blood from cloaca



## Mr-Pidges-Mom (Jan 15, 2009)

I have a Pigeon, Mr. Pidge, who is going to be 16 on Jan 17. I know this because he and his nest mate were born on a ledge outside my office in Fl on my birthday, but his parents abandoned them when a freeze hit the area. I waited for his folks to come back, but they never did, so I crawled out on a three story ledge, reached across an open area with piece of cardboard, and scooped up the entire nest. Sadly, his nest-mate was already dead, but my best boy bird has been with me ever since.

So here's what's going on: yesterday I cleaned out his cage, gave him new food and a tiny bit of grit. He has always lived inside, has a huge parrot cage with a built-in ramp that leads up to his own private box. He's a spoiled bird, to say the least. 

He went right for the grit, and late last night I noticed a few drops of blood in his cage. All I had on-hand was Ornacyn-Plus so I put that in his water, cleaned out the cage again, but white paper down, and this morning there was a quite a bit of watery blood on the floor paper but healthy looking poop on his ledge.

I called the only vet in town that does birds, but of course he is booked solid, and can't see him until tomorrow. So I had a friend hold Mr. Pidge, cleaned around the cloaca, that does look red and a bit swollen and it also looks like there might be a cut on the cloaca. While I was cleaning him, he pooped, and it looked totally normal--no blood at all in the poop. I swabbed the area with Neosporin and the back of his upper legs too. 

He's acting totally normal now, cooing at the cats, grooming himself, eating, fighting with his cage paper, and I just heard him eating. 

This is the second time this has happened, and every time it's been when I've given him grit and he's hogged out on it. I feed him Pigeon and Dove Seed by Hagen, and a tablespoon of Petamine Breeding Formula, which was suggested by a local pigeon breeder. I also mix in a small amount of parakeet pelleted feed--totally blanking on the name, but it's brightly colored and he seems to like it as a bit of a treat.

Has anyone ever had this happen with their bird? I also wondering if anyone thinks that he's going for the grit like this is because of a vitamin deficiency, and if so, what's the best kind of bird vitamins to get? He isn't a young sprout, so wondering if I should I put him on a different food that's more easily digestible without using grit? Also, is there any kind of over-the-counter bird antibiotic I should put him on until this clears up? 

I told the vet I would keep an eye on him today, and call him tomorrow, and thankfully it's been 4 hours, and not one spot of blood anywhere.

Thanks for any information you can provide.

Tracey


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## Mr-Pidges-Mom (Jan 15, 2009)

*Thanks for your quick response, Spirit Wings*

Thanks for your quick response, but he is a male--through and through  My vet has also verified this. I'm really thinking it has something to do with the grit.

Tracey


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Great story about his rescue Tracey and its good to know the two of you have been together for so long.
Given his age, I really wouldn't mess around with what's going on and jeopardize his life. You really do need to keep that vet appointment.
I don't know what kind of grit you are using but the kind I use is called Pigeon grit and it's red. It's also coated with vitamins and minerals. I also give my Pigeons Petamine.
Mr. Pidge might enjoy leafy greens, sprouts, minced carrots, minced broccoli tops and defrosted corn and peas. Mine have recently taken a huge interest in mustard greens and so have I.
Keep the appointment and leT us know what the vet says.
I can't help but like anyone that crawls out on a ledge to rescue a Pigeon.


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## Mr-Pidges-Mom (Jan 15, 2009)

I wouldn't say he's young, as he's 16 years old. He has all the characteristics of a male, and has issues with masturbation in the Spring. He did this so much that a few years back he expelled his own rectum, and we had to have purse-string surgery done on him! That's when the vet told us for sure that he is a male. The vet did not find it amusing when we suggested a pigeon blow-up doll for our bird, and $600 later I wasn't finding his Spring-time antics too funny either. Now every Spring we have to shut the blinds in the room he lives in and if he starts up with self-indulgence, we put in a plastic egg for him to sit on for a few weeks. We then switch out the egg with two penguins on wheels bird toys, and he sits on those. He's really a great dad. Picks the toys up and puts them in his food dish when he's ready for us to take them out.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Mr-Pidges-Mom said:


> I wouldn't say he's young, as he's 16 years old. He has all the characteristics of a male, and has issues with masturbation in the Spring. He did this so much that a few years back he expelled his own rectum, and we had to have purse-string surgery done on him! That's when the vet told us for sure that he is a male. The vet did not find it amusing when we suggested a pigeon blow-up doll for our bird, and $600 later, I wasn't finding his SpringTime antics too funny either. Now every spring we have to shut the blinds in the room he lives in and if he starts up with self-indulgence, we put in a platic egg for him to sit on for a few weeks. We then switch out the egg with two penquins on wheels bird toys, and he sits on those. He's really a great dad. Picks the toys up and puts them in his food dish when he's ready for us to take them out.


LOL...Mr. Pidge sounds like quite the character and so do you!
This time you could start with an exam and fecal and you probably won't need to put out so much money.


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## Mr-Pidges-Mom (Jan 15, 2009)

*Thanks Charis.*



Charis said:


> LOL...Mr. Pidge sounds like quite the character and so do you!
> This time you could start with an exam and fecal and you probably won't need to put out so much money.


I'm watching him, and so far so good--totally normal, no more blood, nothing. He's eating, drinking, doing his regular cooing. 

The bad part is I just had an emergency colic issue with my horse, so I'm out of money for this month. It also turns out the bird vet is booked for the next two days, but if I see one more spot of blood, I will take him in on an emergency appt. and they will work him in. If not, I will make a regular scheduled appt, a lot less expensive, and take him for a general checkup and fecal. 

Always something....

Thanks to both of you for posting back. Got me through a few hours of worry.

Tracey


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## Grimaldy (Feb 25, 2007)

HI MPM,

The cloaca is actually the collecting point for the digestive tract, the urinary tract and the reproductive tract, all three. So the presence of blood could mean anything.

There has always been some controversy about feeding grit, simply because sometimes the bird starts to look at it as food and that leads to impaction problems. Prior surgery iin that area of the anatomy could also suggest something new but related. Sometimes for no reason at all birds just pass some blood that stops by itself in a day or two. So if the overall health is fine, I wouldn't worry about it.


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## Mr-Pidges-Mom (Jan 15, 2009)

Thanks, Grimadly. 

Still watching him. He's eating etc, and acting normal with not one spot of blood in his cage, so I'll keep an eye on him. Around 6 months ago this happened after eating grit, so I'm really careful about giving just a tiny bit. Now I'm wondering if I should not feed him grit at all? Is there a kind of food that they don't need grit to digest? He seems to really like the pigeon seed mixes I give him, but wondering if a prepared pelleted food would be better? Any ideas would be appreciated. 

Tracey


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## Grimaldy (Feb 25, 2007)

Hi T,

There are many people who believe that birds do not need grit at all. To the extent they do, they will find small stones and objects which pretty much stay in the gizzard. The gizzard is pretty capable of digesting seeds as it is.

Foys sells a couple of different kind of pellets; Harrisons sells a very fancy organic pellet in several flavors if you want to really spoil your bird.


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## Stilettobrunett (Jun 21, 2008)

You could sprinkle some crushed cuttle bone on his regular pigeon food. I do that sometimes with my finches for some extra calcium. What kind of grit are you using? If it's just oyster shell with nothing else it might be too course, try putting some between two sheets of wax paper and smushing with the back side of a spoon. It might help to make it easier to digest. You might also want to try mixing the grit in with the food instead of offering it seperatley so he might become full on the seed before he has a chance to stomach too much grit. I use "pigeon grit" which is a mix of things but its generally smaller pieces than just the plain oyster shell that my quail love. Hope that helps and good luck!


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

I was really touched by your story of how your rescued Mr. Pidge and are so devoted to him. I have not had this particular problem with my pigeons when it comes to grit, but it sounds like it could be related...I just don't know. I've always heard pigeons really need grit even if other species of birds don't because pigeons swallow their seeds whole. But I'm not sure that's entirely true. My pigeons love their grit and go crazy over it if they haven't had it for awhile, such as if I've withheld grit while they were on medication. But I've never seen any bleeding afterwards. 

If you do try pellets instead of grain, personally I like Harrison's the best because it doesn't give them loose droppings. All other brands I've tried (with other birds, not pigeons) give them somewhat loose droppings. Harrison's doesn't, but it _is_ pricey. I haven't tried it with my pigeons but I have given it to my doves before and they really like it. Harrison's high potency forumula would be good for an older bird and you wouldn't have to worry about extra vitamins because it contains everything he needs.


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## Mr-Pidges-Mom (Jan 15, 2009)

Thanks so much for everyone's help. I just cleaned and then medicated him with Neosporin again. The Cloaca is still red and a bit swollen, but there is no blood whatsoever, and he is passing poops quite normally. I guess I'll try putting him on Harrison's. Is there a good place online to get it? Always looking for a deal. Also, one more question. Do I need to gradually change his diet to the Harrison's? With horses it can take at least a couple of weeks to totally switch feeds, but of course they can't throw up. Just wondering what the norm is for switching feed on pigeons? 

Thanks again for helping me with this. 

Tracey
PS
If anyone needs a custom website or graphic design, that's what I do for a living. After the vet bills this month, I'm probably gonna need a few more clients : )
http://www.adgraphicdesign.com


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Tracey,

You do need to gradually switch over to the pellets. Some birds take to them readily and others are a bit of a challenge to get them started eating pellets. You can buy Harrisons on-line. I, personally, don't know where the best buy on them is, but I'm sure another member will be along soon with that information.

Terry


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Tracey, thank you for sharing your wonderful story. Sixteen is quite old for a pigeon and a testament to the good care he has had.

We do give our pigeons red grit but our vet has always said doves and pigeons don't really need it. She had two doves that lived over 20 years and had never had grit. Personally, with Mr. Pidge's age to consider, I would simply not give him any more. To me, it sounds like grit may have cut him and caused the bleeding. I don't think I would even put him on an antibiotic, just keep on cleaning his rear and applying the Neosporin for a few more days.

You will need to gradually introduce him to the pellets. If you have a gram scale, weigh him each day to make sure he is not losing weight. If he doesn't like the pellets after you have tried them for a few weeks or if he loses very much weight, I would give him what he wants to eat. He has done marvelously well with his seed regimen and, to me, it simply isn't worth it to cause him stress in switching to something different.


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Maggie has given you good advice about switching over gradually, especially with an old bird. This is where I buy Harrisons: http://www.birdsafestore.com/Default.aspx I don't know if it's the best deal you can find, but I've been satisfied with the service and the product is always fresh. Local avian vets often carry it too, if you don't want to pay shipping. 

BTW, we have an elderly Old Dutch Capuchine cock that is at least 15. We adopted him over five years ago from a kindly couple who had found him wandering around after a storm ten years before that. He's not banded so we don't know his exact age, but he's at least fifteen. He slows down a lot in cold weather but is otherwise robust and has been happily mated to a roller hen for the entire time we've had him. 

-Cathy


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## Mr-Pidges-Mom (Jan 15, 2009)

Thanks again to everyone who has been so kind about Mr. Pidge. He is doing great, and has not had any more issues. I am still medicating him with the Neosporin, and the redness and swelling are going away--a wonderful thing for sure. He's cooing at the dogs right now. 

Both of our birthdays are today, and when I did the math, he's actually 17! Still very healthy and young looking, with incredible vibrant feathers around his neck : ) 

I am going to take him off the grit and see how he does. I was looking at the Harrison's Mash bird food from the link Cathy sent, and may order a bag of that and see if I can get him to eat it. I was also reading some posts where members are writing about vinegar in the water? Is this a recommended thing for pigeons? Hadn't heard of it before. 

From posts here, I also purchased some raw, unsalted peanuts from the health food store, and Mr. Pidge is loving them--just gave him a couple of little pieces to build his energy back up--seems to be working as he is quite hard to treat with the Neosporin now : )

Tracey

PS
So glad to have found this group, as many people think I am nuts to love a pigeon and keep one in my house. I've heard everything from "What nasty birds!" to "That's a rat with wings!" I just think they are missing out on a great time myself--well, except for Mr. Pidge's Spring-time antics--I could do without that!


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Happy birthday to both of you! I'm so glad to hear Mr. Pidge is doing better. 

I recommend Harrison's fine, high potency formula. Not superfine, but fine. It's about the size of milo. I doubt a pigeon would recognize mash as food, but the little pellets are similar in size to seeds. Mix it in with his current pigeon mix and see if he eats it. When you order, be sure to get the high potency formula. It's best for old, sick or breeding birds and seems to taste better, according to our birds, even the picky and spoiled lovebird. 

Many of us add apple cider vinegar (1 tablespoon per gallon) to our pigeons' drinking water several times a week. I like Bragg's natural cider vinegar with the "mother" in it. My avian vet actually recommended this.

People who say pigeons are "rats with wings" haven't a clue to what they are really like. Pigeons are our oldest feathered friends, having been domesticated before recorded history. As you have discovered from this forum, you're in good company.  People all over the world keep pigeons. I like to think they are a peaceful, unifying force in our troubled world. 


-Cathy


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## Mr-Pidges-Mom (Jan 15, 2009)

Thanks for the Happy Birthdays, Cath. We both had a great day, and it's even better with Mr. Pidge on the mend. Also, thanks for the tip on the Fine versus mash or superfine, Harrison's. I'm going to our pet store today to see if they carry this brand. If not, I'll order some.

Tracey


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Mr-Pidges-Mom said:


> Thanks for the Happy Birthdays, Cath. We both had a great day, and it's even better with Mr. Pidge on the mend. Also, thanks for the tip on the Fine versus mash or superfine, Harrison's. I'm going to our pet store today to see if they carry this brand. If not, I'll order some.
> 
> Tracey


If he is reluctant to change to the high potency fine...a tip would be to get the juvenile hand feeding formula mixed with equal volume of plain yougurt and coat the seed with it. my doves eat the H.P fine and they seem to like it. the super fine would be too small, it is more for canaries and finch types.


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