# Breaking Point?



## Freebird loft (Jul 17, 2009)

Would like some opinions on training my Old Birds. I'm flying double widowhood this year, question is where to find my breaking point? My loft is located 30 miles south of the line of flight and 30 miles on average long man. Everyone tells me old birds don't have to be trained out as far as yb's, just wondering if longer tosses would help them to break from the pack earlier? During yb season they are usually 25-55 mins behind winners, I assume most of these mins are due to breaking late or having to head south from other lofts. Thanks for any advice


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Freebird loft said:


> Would like some opinions on training my Old Birds. I'm flying double widowhood this year, question is where to find my breaking point? My loft is located 30 miles south of the line of flight and 30 miles on average long man. Everyone tells me old birds don't have to be trained out as far as yb's, just wondering if longer tosses would help them to break from the pack earlier? During yb season they are usually 25-55 mins behind winners, I assume most of these mins are due to breaking late or having to head south from other lofts. Thanks for any advice


 First of all, I have not flown OB's for many years, so take what I say with a grain of salt. But, I am going on the assumption they are still homing pigeons. I don't think anyone reading your post, can tell you where your bird's "breaking" point is, cause in order to know that, one would have to know which direction the main flock actually travels. We can draw a straight line on a map, and call that the line of flight, but the actual line of flight would be affected by the actual terrain and weather. If you could take them to the first race station and release them with a GPS tracker device on some of the birds, then you would have an idea what direction they actually take when released by themselves. 

Without having that data, there is an awful lot of guess work. If it were me, I would train my OB's like my YB's, a lot of tosses from training locations that are at 35 and 50 miles, which based on local geography, is belived to be where they might "break" for me. But for you, the situation may be different based on the terrain and position of other lofts the main flock are heading towards. If you could provide Google Earth Maps of your loft location, the release points, and where the other key loft areas, I would be willing to venture a guess for you.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

Racing pigeons that are flying in "The Lead",do not need a breaking point...It`s the racing pigeons stuck within the rest of the race birds,that need a breaking point...These are the words that would be said by a "Champion" loft flyer,to a fellow "New" racing pigeon flyer....This was told to me many years ago..And it is a very true statement...Alamo


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## Freebird loft (Jul 17, 2009)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> First of all, I have not flown OB's for many years, so take what I say with a grain of salt. But, I am going on the assumption they are still homing pigeons. I don't think anyone reading your post, can tell you where your bird's "breaking" point is, cause in order to know that, one would have to know which direction the main flock actually travels. We can draw a straight line on a map, and call that the line of flight, but the actual line of flight would be affected by the actual terrain and weather. If you could take them to the first race station and release them with a GPS tracker device on some of the birds, then you would have an idea what direction they actually take when released by themselves.
> 
> Without having that data, there is an awful lot of guess work. If it were me, I would train my OB's like my YB's, a lot of tosses from training locations that are at 35 and 50 miles, which based on local geography, is belived to be where they might "break" for me. But for you, the situation may be different based on the terrain and position of other lofts the main flock are heading towards. If you could provide Google Earth Maps of your loft location, the release points, and where the other key loft areas, I would be willing to venture a guess for you.


Hey Warren, I'm not that good with maps but here is a link to our club which has the young bird release map on it (same line for ob's) . I live in the bottom corner between the Hwy 27 and Hwy 29 symbols just a little below the image. Any suggestions gladly appreciated, thanks

http://www.northatlantarpc.com/


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## Freebird loft (Jul 17, 2009)

Alamo said:


> Racing pigeons that are flying in "The Lead",do not need a breaking point...It`s the racing pigeons stuck within the rest of the race birds,that need a breaking point...These are the words that would be said by a "Champion" loft flyer,to a fellow "New" racing pigeon flyer....This was told to me many years ago..And it is a very true statement...Alamo


I agree with this statement to a degree, my theory is say out of 400-500 birds they break into 10 groups according to health and speed. The group out front has most of the top 5% birds among them, but if my birds are in this group they are influenced by the drag. This is my first year concentrating on ob's, I've flown some in the past that weren't ready for the season and gave up. This was my fault, now that more time is available for me I want to WIN! not just have birds come home.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

Freebird Loft....If you have your birds in great physical condition,and 110% healthy,the only handicap they would have for not flying out front,IS,they are not good enough to be flying out front......All the training time,and money spent would be wasted...I`m not bashing your birds...I`m only saying that to have your birds out front,the 1st and most important aspect of this sport is QUALITY stock...Once you know you have this,you can train etc,with the knowledge that you have pigeons that can fly out front and be very competitive and also win....If you are new to this hobby,get your birds to fly as best they can....Keep the best ones,and if you can,improve your breeding stock....*And most of all,just have some fun,and enjoy the ride,win or lose !!!..... *............Alamo


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## Freebird loft (Jul 17, 2009)

Alamo said:


> Freebird Loft....If you have your birds in great physical condition,and 110% healthy,the only handicap they would have for not flying out front,IS,they are not good enough to be flying out front......All the training time,and money spent would be wasted...I`m not bashing your birds...I`m only saying that to have your birds out front,the 1st and most important aspect of this sport is QUALITY stock...Once you know you have this,you can train etc,with the knowledge that you have pigeons that can fly out front and be very competitive and also win....If you are new to this hobby,get your birds to fly as best they can....Keep the best ones,and if you can,improve your breeding stock....*And most of all,just have some fun,and enjoy the ride,win or lose !!!..... *............Alamo


These are the most important starting points. With good stock and great health anyone can fly pigeons, I've made good friends with the top 5 or 6 fliers in our combine and from their knowledge and help my loft is turning in the right direction. I started out taking any free birds given (hence the name Freebird loft, last name Freeman) and what a disaster that was, between lesser quality birds and me being a beginner I'm surprised that I didn't quit. I only have 8 out of the original 40 + birds given to me.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

I don't know about old birds, but for young birds, the experiment shows that the breaking point or that point where the bird breaks out from the group and head for home occurs when it recognizes familiar landmarks close to its home and certainly was less than 30 miles. It was a GPS experiment. I forgot which scientific journal article I got that one though. Obviously this may depend on how good is the pigeon. Some just follow the group blindly and make a U-turn once they realized that the group they are flying with landed on some lofts that are not theirs.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Alamo said:


> Racing pigeons that are flying in "The Lead",do not need a breaking point...It`s the racing pigeons stuck within the rest of the race birds,that need a breaking point...These are the words that would be said by a "Champion" loft flyer,to a fellow "New" racing pigeon flyer....This was told to me many years ago..And it is a very true statement...Alamo


 Odds are, a new guy is not going to have birds "In The Lead" unless he lucked upon some very exceptional pigeons. His birds are going to be with the 98.6% which are not "In The Lead", thus the desire to train somewhere near a "break" point, or so the theory goes....


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Freebird loft said:


> Hey Warren, I'm not that good with maps but here is a link to our club which has the young bird release map on it (same line for ob's) . I live in the bottom corner between the Hwy 27 and Hwy 29 symbols just a little below the image. Any suggestions gladly appreciated, thanks
> 
> http://www.northatlantarpc.com/


Where do you release your YB's ? If those red dots are your club mates, that gives me a fairly good idea. From the map area, to me they look fairly close, by that I mean under 10 miles, hard to tell. And even a google map is not as good as driving the flight path.


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## Freebird loft (Jul 17, 2009)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Where do you release your YB's ? If those red dots are your club mates, that gives me a fairly good idea. From the map area, to me they look fairly close, by that I mean under 10 miles, hard to tell. And even a google map is not as good as driving the flight path.


I usually work them out on a line from my house to Covington -Athens then jump to Hartwell. Athens is approx. 75 miles ( I stop before the mini bypass ) I'm thinking of trying Int. 85 this year around Braselton (on Int.85 between Winder and Gainesville) Will try to post a Map

http://mapq.st/zIxtIB


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## SouthTown Racers (Jan 14, 2009)

Have you evr thought about single or small group tossing from the point where you would like them to break?


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## lmorales4 (Jul 8, 2010)

Freebird what club do you fly with?


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## lmorales4 (Jul 8, 2010)

Freebird what club do you fly with?


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

I don`t breed any YB`s untill April/May....So in my case,breaking point means nada !! My birds are to young,and un-motivated...I also have no electric in my lofts for lights/heat to breed early YB`s...So I`m flying against January bred YB`s,who are motivated,and older then my YB`s....But I found out one thing,that reading any or all books,and going by with alot of guys on here say,is that training birds at a supposetly breaking point,is a waste of time....I used to train on line for my birds....I trained 3 at a time,5 at a time etc...Unless the wind was in my favor,my birds were 20/25 minutes behind the combine winner.....I few years ago,after training and spending way to much gas money,I decided to train SOUTH of my loft...The race stations are WEST of my loft....My birds did BETTER training from the WRONG direction...I was getting 4 to 6 bird drops....Training from the West,I always got birds home one at a time....Fo figure that out ????Alamo


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

Thats very interesting Alamo!!! I took my birds to 35 miles about 20 times because it got them flying and I didn't have time to take them anywhere else. That spot was about 5 miles from the guy who always won, all this just makes me thing I wish I would have taken them 50 miles a few more times then I did!


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

Freebird loft said:


> Would like some opinions on training my Old Birds. I'm flying double widowhood this year, question is where to find my breaking point? My loft is located 30 miles south of the line of flight and 30 miles on average long man. Everyone tells me old birds don't have to be trained out as far as yb's, just wondering if longer tosses would help them to break from the pack earlier? During yb season they are usually 25-55 mins behind winners, I assume most of these mins are due to breaking late or having to head south from other lofts. Thanks for any advice


In my honest opinion, I don't believe there is a break point. If your birds are "breaking," then that means they're behind the leaders anyways. Either they're first, or they're not.


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

I always imagined it that they break 5-10 miles from the release points.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

My dad used to say,the best pigeons made a brealk right at the release point,when the doors are open....I went on alot of training tosses with my dad in my younger days....He would have the baskett door facing "Home"....He would open it up,and let 1 to 3 birds go at a time...They would NEVER make a turn...They flew straight in thye direction of home...I teased him a few times about facing the baskett the wrong way...He did...And to my surprise,the birds made a 180 degree turn,and within 5 to 7 seconds,they were on a straight line to home....This is when you know that the birds will do the same thing at the release station on race day...I`m still TRYING to get MY birds to do the SAME as my DADs birds....My father was a GREAT pigeon handler....And I am NOT !! Alamo


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

Alamo my birds did not circle but went straight home up to 35 miles. At their first 50 mile toss they circled, the second toss they went straight home, they also circled at the 65 mile toss?


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## Freebird loft (Jul 17, 2009)

lmorales4 said:


> Freebird what club do you fly with?


I fly with North Atlanta mainly and sometimes with Greater Atlanta


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## Freebird loft (Jul 17, 2009)

Alamo said:


> My dad used to say,the best pigeons made a brealk right at the release point,when the doors are open....I went on alot of training tosses with my dad in my younger days....He would have the baskett door facing "Home"....He would open it up,and let 1 to 3 birds go at a time...They would NEVER make a turn...They flew straight in thye direction of home...I teased him a few times about facing the baskett the wrong way...He did...And to my surprise,the birds made a 180 degree turn,and within 5 to 7 seconds,they were on a straight line to home....This is when you know that the birds will do the same thing at the release station on race day...I`m still TRYING to get MY birds to do the SAME as my DADs birds....My father was a GREAT pigeon handler....And I am NOT !! Alamo


I experienced this in 09 with my young birds on their 3rd and 4th tosses at distances of 40-60 miles. That was my first year winning a diploma I'll hope for that quick orientation time this year.


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

Freebird loft said:


> I experienced this in 09 with my young birds on their 3rd and 4th tosses at distances of 40-60 miles. That was my first year winning a diploma I'll hope for that quick orientation time this year.


My birds almost never leave right away on training tosses. The only time I had them doing it on a consistent basis was in 1999 and I topped the combine with 2 birds and won another club race that year along with other good finishes. With a team of I think 11 birds so I was really proud of that team. But now my birds will circle for as much as 5 or 10 mins b4 they head home and I'll watch them. But from the times they make they are really moving once they do go. And on race day race day they are normally right up there.


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

I should clarify what I assume everyone's talking about "break points." 

1.) Either pigeons break from the flock upon release and head for home.

2.) Pigeons are trained repeatedly at a certain distance (30-60 miles) and when the pigeons reach that point, the birds know or recognize the rest of the way home, therefore they'll set off on their own. 

I think most people are referring to the latter. Correct me if I'm wrong.


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