# Very sick Collared Dove



## amyable

Hi,

When I first saw this bird in the aviary I thought it was an injury to the eye.
It's one eye is gunged up and it has no vision from this one.
Other eye looks ok.

Someone thought it might have been cat caught, but I really have no definite info on it's background.

On getting it home, I've put it on heat and started it on Noroclav (Synulox).

While I was treating it I noticed it has a 'wet' noise when it's breathing. Once relaxed in it's box I can't hear it, so it's obviously worse when stressed.

I've been reading up to try and find a diagnosis. The symptoms of Ornithosis seem to fit which is a bit worrying, but there could be other causes of these problems.

Any thoughts and suggestions on possible treatment would be appreciated.

Thanks

Janet

Janet


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## plamenh

Start her on Doxycicline for 5 days, 2 days vitamins and probiotics and another 5 days Doxycicline. If you can get Doxy-T it is even beter. Remove grit and any calcium sources while on AB. Dose in the water bur crop medicate with fluids to make sure she gets the dose.


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## amyable

Hi,

Unfortunately the only thing I have to hand is Tylan but no Doxy, which can only be got from a vet here unfortunately. Is that worth trying on it's own for respiratory problems as I'm not sure if I can get any Doxy, unless I can find a vet that will see her tomorrow.

Apart from that I only have Baytril and and small amount of Flagyl to hand.

Janet


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## plamenh

Doxy-T is Doxycicline+Tylan

*Tetracycline drug *(Terramycin, Aeuromycin, Tetracycline , or Doxycycline)--good for respiratory infections; best when used in combination with Tylan. One usually has no distinct advantage over the other and they share a common spectrum of activity. With the exception of Doxycycline, they are all available over the counter as poultry preparations. Use 4 teaspoonsful per gallon of the regular strength or 2 teaspoonsful per gallon of the concentrate. Doxycyline is dosed at 500-1000mg per gallon. Use these for 7-14 days. 

*Tylan*--use as mentioned above, in combination with a tetracycline for respiratory infections. Tylan powder is dosed at 1-2 teaspoonsful per gallon. Individual dose at 50 mg per pigeon per day. 

You could start Tylan only and see if you can get Doxy-T. Here in SA is over the counter drug you can get in most of the pet shops.


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## plamenh

Just a thought - Terracortril oinment will do good for the eye infection.


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## amyable

Is Tylan ok with Synulox that you know of?

Thanks 

Janet


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## plamenh

Synulox = Amoxicillin & Clavulanic Acid
You can mix it with Tylan
and you can mix alltogether with
Ronidazole
dosages needs to be calculated though per body weight of the dove.


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## amyable

Thanks for your help. She's been re-hydrated and has just tucked into some seeds.
Breathing is very noisey so just have to keep fingers crossed overnight.

Janet


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## plamenh

Rattling may be due to canker too. Lack of liasions does not mean she is canker free.


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## amyable

Oh Heck,

Spartrix?


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## Feefo

Janet, maybe Jayne has some doxy.

What colour is the gungy eye? Have a careful feel around her head for ticks.

Cynthia


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## amyable

hi Cynthia,

I had just had that same thought about Jayne. I've got to go out now so will send her an email.

I'll look at the eye a bit closer and report back,

JAnet


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## amyable

I've had a closer look at the eye but she gets very stressed and starts breathing heavily so had to put her back.
I'll be able to see better tomorrow in daylight but it may be a wound as there's something above the eye. I wonder if it is a tick as it seemed browney/ blood coloured. The light just wasn't good enough to tell tonight but the eye looks the same colour. Definitely not a puss colour if that helps. I'll get a picture tomorrow as she can't see out of that eye and so I can get up close without having to hold her.

Janet


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## Feefo

OK. These are two pictures of doves with eye damage that might have been tick related.

Tania found this one, it made a full recovery. When its lid became visible it had a small slit in it, so it could have been injury, not a tick but if you look at the very top of the eye it has the typical swelling:











This is Hermione Olive, she also made a full recovery. A third one, who had a tick removed by the vet also had an eye similar to Hermione Olive, but the eyelids were so swollen that the eye wasn't visible. That one also made a full recovery.










Ticks excrete toxins in their saliva that can lead to nervous symptoms. They also excrete an anticoagulant.

F.D W Harper says "Sticky eyes with yellow pus, often associated with dirty wattles and stained wing buts caused by rubbing the eyes...usually several birds affected, some of which will make rattling sounds as they breathe. The probable cause is chlamydia (ornithosis) and the birds need aggressive treatment." He says that in his personal opinion Baytril is active against Chlamydia

Birds with an eye injury , or eye infection can get hard pus in the eye.


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## amyable

Very interesting pictures. I'll get one to compare tomorrow. It's probably more like Hermione's picture.

I started her on Noroclav and loaded the first dose, (only given one so far), as the lad mentioned she might have been cat caught, so I thought she needed an urgent dose. I got conflicting info on her. One said she came in yesterday, the warden said three days ago. So I have no clues.

With that info about Chlamydia causing rattling breathing I wonder if she should have gone on Baytril with Tylan.

I appreciate it's a guessing game but just want to try whatever I can.

Janet

Just had a message back from Jayne she's sending some Doxycycline. Sadly she's just lost a bird tonight.


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## amyable

Hi,

She's still with me but just the same with her breathing. 

Pictures of her eye:










Janet


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## Feefo

The breathing may be a separate issue, I have never (fortunately) had a case of ornithosis so I have no experience of what the eye would look like, but her head feathers look disturbed.

Please examine her carefully for ticks. I am a bit obsessive about this because according to John Chitty and Michael Lierz "Tick bites have been recorded as causing a fatal neurological syndrome in a collared dove". We had a collared dove with a tick and opisthotonos which, in retrospect, we think was caused by the tick bite...she survived and was released.

Can you e-mail me the largest versions of both the photos that you have? So often those digital photos reveal far more that we can see when looking at a bird.


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## amyable

Hi,

I've bathed the eye area gently with some Colloidal Silver spray and just dabbed it with a cotton bud. It's dried blood coming off. I had to put her down for a while as her breathing is laboured when stressed. I'll go and have another look for ticks now.

Her feathers are coming out around her head aswell.

Janet


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## amyable

I've bathed the eye again and pushed the feathers back around the lump. The area is very swollen and protrudes from the head if I look at it from above. There's a lot of dried blood and the eye itself looks as if it might be damaged, but can't be totally sure of that.
She didn't mind me touching above the eye but winced when I touched a spot nearer the front of her head and struggled, so I think there's a wound possibly. A lot of feathers missing.
I'm tending to think it's a wound as opposed to an infection. I can't see ticks, I've only seen one on my dog before it had gauged itself and grown, and a ferret covered in them and they were more like tiny pimples, so hope I'm right.

The breathing as you say might be a separate issue.

Her poops are starting to look dark green so I've popped her a few defrosted peas down. She was quite perky before I started to mess her about and hopped off my lap when she saw a dish of seeds. She tries to pick up but although she looks as if she's eating, I think her sight is making it hard for her to see the seeds once she gets up close. I only saw her successfully pick up four sunflower hearts even though she was pecking about for a while.

My biggest concern is for her breathing as she sounds like Tweet did now. Jayne has put the Doxy in the post so just have to hope the postmen behave and get it here asap.

Based on the possibility she might have a wound above the eye, and respiratory problems, together with the possibility the rattling sound could be caused by Chlamydia, Ornithosis, how many meds can I give her to cover these at one time?
She's on Synulux, Tylan, and hopefully Doxy tomorrow. Are any of these covering the Chlamydia possibility, as F D W Harper suggests Baytril for that.

I don't think she's got time to wait to see how each one affects her symptoms individually but I don't want to overdose her.

any help appreciated.

Janet

Cynthia, I'll just try and enlarge & email the pictures now.

Thanks so much.


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## Feefo

Thanks for the photo, it looks like quite a nasty eye injury, her beak also looks a bit damaged, so keep her on synulox. Also examine her for any other puncture wounds.

Wasn't Tweet's problem fungal? As the suggestion that it could be Chlamydia was based on the eye, I would have a rethink about the way forward. Try writing everything down, that always helps me.

Does she breathe with an open beak?

You could contact Jayne, preferably by phone...I think that she has had a pigeon with aspergillosis and one with ornithosis recently. Maybe she can clarify whethere there were any obvious differences in the breathing symptoms and mimic sounds for you.

You could also try e-mailing Retief, I know that he responded to an e-mail from Charlotte's father about Roger the woodie...but you will have to be quick as the surgery closes at 7. Or try one of those on line vet consults about which meds can work together.

BTW, did you give her spartrix?

Another thing to consider is that she probably picked something up at the sanctuary...which reminds me (I am so slow!) that Diane at A Wing and a Prayer had a recent outbreak of ornithosis among the woodies and collared doves there...can you phone her? She will know exactly what the symptoms are in a CD (Number is on Matilda's List for England).

If when everything is taken into account youhave to go for the balance of probabilities I would use the Doxy.


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## amyable

Hi again,

I've just spoken with Diane and she said none of her doves that died had an eye problem but went very wobbly, off their legs and had the rattling breathing with wet around the beak.
The breathing and wet beak are similar but she's not off her legs and wobbly.
She didn't have post mortems on them so can't confirm it was definitely Ornithosis, it was the vet that suggested that diagnosis.

She was going to recommend Baytril but as the Dove's on Synulox already she didn't think that was a good idea. In saying that her vet put her birds on Synulox, but as far as the respiratory symptoms went, it didn't touch that.

The main thing was to get some actual food down her, so I've just given her some soaked cat kibble, (as recommended by Diane).
I couldn't get much down her as I got concerned when she started to close her good eye. I've always lost them once they do that. So I've put her back on heat and in back in the airing cupboard which is warm to rest for the night.

Although Diane didn't have any eye problems with her birds that died, I have just read up again on the symptoms for Ornithosis and any I have read all state:

Unilateral infection of the eye.
Rattling respiration
Red throat & upper respiratory tract
Filthy nose
Thick head ( ear feathers standing up)
Bad condition.
It is caused by Chlamydophila psittaci.

I have given her half of Spartix and Diane said to give her the other half tomorrow.

If she makes it through the night I'm going to treat her with the Doxy when it arrives and will have to carry on the Synulox to complete the course now.
If no improvement then I'll go onto Baytril if she makes it that far.

Thanks for all the advise so far, onto keeping fingers crossed now.

Janet

ps, she's not actually breathing through an open beak by the way.


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## Feefo

I wonder why her vet put the birds on Synulox? If it is the vet I think it is, she is an experienced avian vet that is recommended by Retief.

Baytrila and Synulox can be given together, I do it often and Rob has prescribed that combination for respiratories.


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## amyable

Actually I'm fairly sure Diane said she puts Baytril and Amoxicillin together perhaps she wasn't aware that Synulox has amoxicillin.

Interestingly she treats bad canker cases with Spartrix and Baytril with good results.

Janet


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## plamenh

I would not recomend Baytril if you planning to use Doxy. You cannot mix them. Spartrix should sort out canker or at least keep it under controll.


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## amyable

Hi, Doxy arrived this morning, bless you Jayne for that.

Doves breathing is noisier and I can hear her rattling from her box now so unfortunately a bit worse.

Have started her on the Doxy and still giving Tylan and Synulox. Also another half of Spartrix.

I have managed to tube feed her some Kaytee on Diane's advice. My first ever attempt at tubing and had to use an electric cable tube, again Diane said that wuld be good in an emergency. Worked well thankfully.

So am leaving her on heat to rest and hope the meds will start to do some good before it's too late.

Janet


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## Feefo

I hope that the Doxy helps. When are you due back at the sanctuary? If it is Ornithosis there might be others affected.

Cynthia


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## amyable

Hi Cynthia,

I usually go in on Thursdays. I'm hopeful it will be contained if it is as this Dove was in a cage by itself where they keep new arrivals. The only birds nearby were a feral in the next door cage, but there is a wall inbetween so they can't make contact. There was a juvenile Dove sitting on the top but that's one that was released recently and is just coming back to find food.

I'm going to tell them this bird most likely has Ornithosis whether it has or not so maybe it will make them more aware of quarantining birds when they arrive which is something they don't always do, or at least not for long enough

(Mind you they probably won't know what that is anyway seeing as the Warden asked me once what the difference was between a Woodie and a feral pigeon !!!).


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## Feefo

How is the dove doing, Janet?

Cynthia


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## amyable

Hi Cynthia,

Well she's still with me but hard to say how things are going really.

She's certainly a little better in herself and not outwardly deteriorating, but she still has the rattling when she's breathing. She did initially get worse and started to breath with an open beak. The inside of her mouth was quite mucousy, and I felt she was going down rapidly. However, I feel that it's not as wet around her mouth now but she's still noisey.

They wound over her eye is improving though. It's definitely a wound and not conjunctivitus. Over her eye a scab has formed and is beginning to come away. Until that's off I can't tell if her eye is damaged as the scab is forcing it shut. I bathed it to see if it would come away but it's quite deep so I'm letting it take it's own course as her breathing is more of a worry at the moment.

I tube feed her Kaytee twice a day, and she's fine with that. She finishes her course of Synulox tomorrow, and she's still on Doxy and Tylan. I've given her half a Spartrix for three days aswell.

I note that Plamen said to give five days of Doxy then three days of Vitamins and pro-biotics, then back on five days of Doxy. So she has a while to go on that yet so maybe she might improve more long term.

I've had to give her bottom a bath today as she was badly soiled. For a couple of days her poops were ok but her urates were green. They're more like a youngster on Kaytee now, so not too bad.

We've had a precious couple of days though as it's been nice and sunny. As it was so warm I had her in the garden in a cage and she's been sitting preening loads and watching the other birds. Very alert and happy. She was in earshot of my other birds and she would have been able to hear Poly especially cooing and performing, so I think she relaxed and enjoyed knowing she was amongst birds again instead of sitting inside on her own.

I know how good I feel when I'm out in the sun and she did really seemed to perk up out there.

I've ordered some Wheeze Eaze and Potent Brew today to help her along once she's off the anti-biotics.

So we're still fighting,

Janet


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## amyable

Just to update further as there has been a slight improvement today.

First thing she was still sounding wet then I had my delivery of Wheeze Eeze and sprayed some into her box. The next time I had her out for some meds she was certainly breathing a lot quieter.

The scab came off over her eye and revealed what looked like a possible puncture hole. The whole eye area is still swollen and has turned yellow now as opposed to the green bruise colour of before. I hope as the bruising abates the swelling might go down, but I'll have to wait and see. She has a sort of film over the eye, but I can see part of her eye showing now in a corner. Doesn't respond if I put my finger up to her eye so don't know if she has any sight there.










As it wasn't so sunny today I left her in a cage at the window but with the door open so she could see out. When I went to check on her later she was sitting perched on a plant pot, so must have been feeling adventurous and pottered out for a walk! 

So a better day. Still daren't raise my hopes too much, but she definitely is getting stronger in herself. Also she seems quite happy to be handled now and settles down quite contentedly after her tube feeds.


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## plamenh

You may try some coloidal silver on that wound and eye.
Arnica will be good for swelling.
As long as she is getting stronger, there is a hope.


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## amyable

Hi Plamen,

I've just sent you a pm to double check the Doxy dosage !!

Funnily enough I have been bathing the eye with Colloidal silver, so I hope that has helped. I'll give her Arnica tomorrow. 
I finished her 7 day course of Synulox today aswell.

Thanks

Janet


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## amyable

Her breathing rate is 45 per minute.
A bit disappointed this morning to hear her breathing back to how it was yesterday morning. Still seems ok in herself though so will do two more days on Doxy and see what she's like after that.

Janet


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## amyable

Update:

She/he is really doing extremely well. Her breathing noise has cleared completely and sounds perfectly normal now.

She's on probiotics and vitamins as her urates are quite watery. I still tube her a small amount twice a day as I haven't seen her eating any seeds as yet. Maybe she's not motivated to do so while she's getting fed but I don't want her to lose strength having made such an improvement so far.

I'm also fairly sure she has got some vision in her injured eye aswell. The film over the eye has gone. The swellling has reduced but the outside of the eye is still protruding slightly which would possibly impede the vision directly in front of her. I wouldn't like to release her without this going back to it's normal position. She did knock it a couple of days ago and opened up the original wound when she was trying to fly in her cage in the garden, so I've had to put her in a smaller cage.
She just hates being shut in a cage while outside, but will sit quite happily on my hand when indoors, not stressed then at all.
She flew up to the skylight window in the bathroom yesterday so she's certainly a lot stronger and confident now. Doing well!

Janet


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## plamenh

That's a great news. Keep on feeding her, she will start eating when ready.


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## amyable

Hi,

An update on this dear little dove.
Her eye has healed as well as it's likely to now, the outside rim has almost returned to normal now the swelling to the head has gone down. I'm fairly sure her sight is ok.
I had to put her out with my disabled pigeons in the end as she seemed reluctant to feed herself after being tube fed for a while. Being amongst other birds seems to have done the trick. I watched her today and she's settled in really well with them although being half their size. She even popped down to feed while the others were instead of waiting until they'd finished as before.
I've spoken to Burton Wildlife today to see if they can take her and help find a place for release as I want her to be amongst others if possible. They'll have to hang onto her for a while though as unfortunately she shed her tail feathers a week ago when she tried to do a bolt and I put my hands out to catch her, and I ended up with a handful of feathers!!
I don't know where she was found so she can't be put back where she knows which is such a shame. 

This is her relaxing today. 










Her Eye Now:










With her new feathers coming through on her head she'll look as good as new.

I wish her all the luck in the world now and hope she settles happily once released.

Janet


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## plamenh

She looks really great


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## Feefo

She looks really well, Janet. And comfortable, too. You did a really good job on her.

If you have any old newspapers etc Burton Wildlife Rescue would appreciate them.

Cynthia


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