# Unknown illness in my loft



## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

I'm going crazy here with an unknown illness in my loft. I have birds in quarantine all over the place and have lost two. My old fellow, Gus, seventeen years old died a week ago. His mate was ill, but she survived. Then a few days ago I lost a hen, a racer, who had looked fine the day before. Good feather, good weight, no symptoms of illness the night before. In the morning she was hunkered down in her cubby, had difficulty standing. She died within a couple of hours even though I got her out and on heat and meds. Both birds had crops full of fluid. I've been watching my birds closely, as this began several weeks ago with a bird that went light. Since then several have vomited. Lots of spinach looking poop. I've medicated everyone for everything under the sun. Scrubbed the lofts. Gone through a gallon of bleach. Consult with vet, he says I'm doing exactly what he would do. I was going to have a necropsy done on the second bird that died, but it is $235. If I loose any more, I'll have to bite the bullet and get it done. I'm just going to have to keep on top of things till whatever this is burns itself out. It's a bummer! I have no idea where it came from. No new birds in my lofts.

Margaret


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## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

Doggone, I think I got this in the wrong forum by accident. Would a mod change it when you read it?

Thank you in advance,

Margaret


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Margaret, so very sorry to read this, especially your losing Gus. 

Could you list the meds you have given them? Is there open mouth, heavy, breathing or convulsions just before they pass (if you know), what does their poop look like - other than green - is it runny? Any new seed introduced? Just anything you can think of that might help us figure out what is going on.

Love to you.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

I'm so sorry for the losses and the illness, Margaret. Have a look here and do a bit of reading .. seems like candidiasis is a possibility as well as a few other things: Chevita - Symptoms and Treatment

Terry


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## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

Lady Tarheel said:


> Margaret, so very sorry to read this, especially your losing Gus.
> 
> Could you list the meds you have given them? Is there open mouth, heavy, breathing or convulsions just before they pass (if you know), what does their poop look like - other than green - is it runny? Any new seed introduced? Just anything you can think of that might help us figure out what is going on.
> 
> Love to you.


Maggie, thank you for your reply. I really feel bad about Gus especially. He was such a neat old fellow.

The two that died had runny creamy looking poop, mostly urates. The deaths were unwitnessed, so I don't know about convulsions, but two hours prior to death they both had some strained breathing. Both had difficulty standing. The second one, a hen, apparently had reverse peristalsis. After she had died, I was preparing her for burial and pushed on her crop as I was wrapping her. She expelled frank fecal material through the mouth. So whatever was going on, I'm suspecting a total blockage of the GI tract somewhere. Gus, before dying expelled a huge amount of yellowish clear fluid. The towel where he was laying was soaked with it.

Ill birds have all had very green loose poop. Sometimes it looks foamy, but that isn't consistant. Urates are creamy white.


No new seed. No difference in loft care.

The meds I have given are Spartrix, Amoxycillin, Baytril, some medistatin (I ran out and just got more today) and 4 in 1. I've flock treated with 4 in 1. Of the quarantined birds, the first one that went light was down to 215 gms. from her usual 300. She has gained a little weight but still doesn't eat much. I have her up to 250 gms. (She is Gus's mate). I treated her for Cocci, Canker and Salmonela and Candida. She turned the corner with Baytril, a ten day course. Her poop is good now, but scant as she eats so little.

Another pair had vomiting. They got treatment for Cocci, Canker and Salmonela. They got amoxicillin, spartrix and 4 in 1. They are doing well. Poops are just about normal again.

Pair #3 had a baby die at three days of age and the second egg had the fetus dead in the shell. Treated with Baytril for 10 days. They are doing very well and are back in the loft on a new set of eggs. I'm keeping them on wooden eggs until I'm sure all is well throughout the loft again. 

If there is something I have under medicated for it is candida. Will give everyone a course of that now as I just got supply restocked.

Thank you for looking this over and seeing if anything rings a bell.

On the good side, I have two little rescues, squeakers, that are doing fine.
One has a bad splay leg condition that isn't responding too well. The other is going to grow up happy and healthy. But both are thriving. They are as cute as bugs.

Margaret


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## pigeonpoo (Sep 16, 2005)

Oh Margaret, What a nightmare for you, I am so sorry. 

Rather than treat blindly, could you get the droppings checked at your vet? It should be no where as expensive as a necropsy.

Sue


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## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

TAWhatley said:


> I'm so sorry for the losses and the illness, Margaret. Have a look here and do a bit of reading .. seems like candidiasis is a possibility as well as a few other things: Chevita - Symptoms and Treatment
> 
> Terry


Terry, 

Thank you for this link. It is a really good reference site. I'll read it over closely when I finish posting here.

Margaret


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*Nystatin*

* MARGARET, I realy feel that you have Candida and the only thing it can be treated with is Nystatin. You are off line now so I sent a PM* GEORGE


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Margaret, some of the symptoms could be related to candida but I'm not sure that is the cause. It may be something you will never truly know the reason for the deaths.

I am linking a thread I did a couple years ago when we had two deaths in our aviary in hopes that some of the information will be helpful. The cause appeared to be a protozoal parasite. http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=17628

Not that I think yours have this protozoa but the thread has some wonderful information in it that may generally be helpful.

You didn't mention whether you have treated every one in the loft or just those that were sick. God forbid, if you have another death, I would go ahead and treat all the pigeons with Baytril and Nystatin just to be on the safe side. I know this will be hard because I think you have many more pigeons than we do but I know in my heart that Baytril probably saved other lives in our aviary. We always give our pigeons Nystatin when they are treated with Baytril.

I'm hoping everything has settled down and whatever was going on has been stopped by your diligence. You take care of yourself too because this can be very stressful for you.


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## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

Lady Tarheel said:


> Margaret, some of the symptoms could be related to candida but I'm not sure that is the cause. It may be something you will never truly know the reason for the deaths...snip
> 
> Maggie,
> 
> ...


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## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

george simon said:


> * MARGARET, I realy feel that you have Candida and the only thing it can be treated with is Nystatin. You are off line now so I sent a PM* GEORGE


George, 

I got your PM. Thank you. Will be in touch.

Margaret


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

Margaret, I am so very sorry to hear you and your birds are going through this. I remember when it happened here a few years back and it was so awful. I'm so sorry about Gus, too. I don't have any advice but I will hope and pray for you to find out what it is so you can get rid of it.


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Margaret, This is the first time in several days that I have visited this site and am so sorry to read about this horrible experience that you are going through.I do not have anything to add, but to express my condolances to you on your losses. It has to be so stressful for you and I hope and pray you get this probelm resolved.


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Margaret........I am so sorry to hear about the tragic things going on with your birds. I have just one little sick bird with very similar symptons like you have described. I too have treated him with just about everything under the sun and still can't get this sickness or whatever it is under control. I can only image how hard this must be for you wilh so many birds being ill. I am beside myself with just the one bird.

I wish you the best and hope all your birds get well very soon.


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## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

What ever is happening to you happened to me in the winter months, same symptoms as well so I'm dying to know what has happened to your birds. I can't remember the name of the medicine and its in the shed. Tomorrow I'll find it and PM you the name of it. It isn't one of the things you've mentioned and it helps with the respiratory and digestive system. A guy I know here had the same problem as you and used this medicine and all his birds were good again  

Good Luck and sorry about the loss of Gus :\


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Gurbir, this is a link to your thread last winter, there are a couple of medicines mentioned but the thread was locked so I am not certain whether all the information is there...but maybe it will prompt your memory?

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=32226&referrerid=560

Cynthia


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Margarret,




Oye...


Always hard to narrow what may be primary pathology, verses secondary opportunistic/incidental/in-the-wake...


If I were to venture a guess, it'd be a Virus, effecting different Pigeons differently, or, effecting different individual Pigeons according to their uniqueness...anyway...


Herpes Virus m-a-y-b-e...but, who the heck knows...


Liver involvements, infection - ie: 'creamy' Urates...and 'Spinich-dip-green' ( Bile whirled ) Poops...


A Virus can do GI shutdowns with some, either oweing to primary Virus mischiefs, or, to Candida/Yeasts or Canker or Bacteria or Enteritis or Haemoragic Enteritis even, opportuning/infecting compromised tissues/nerves, and or also occasioning parastalsis troubles...


As my Vet one remarked after a pensive 20 second silence for my having desribed a similar scene/senario to yours -


"The ones who will die...will die. The ones who become ill, will either die, or, recover...and the ones it does not seem to effect, or to effect much, will shrug it off...as if nothing happenned..."



Now of course, the things we can do to help them, can help them, and greatly sometimes.



So...if it was me ( and, it has been, sometimes, ) I'd do this -



All Common drinking Water to have two Tea Cups to the Gallon of Purree of Kim Chee, made in a regular Blender...and, to which I'd add, while in the Blender, one good Teaspoon of fairly "Hot" powdered Cayene Pepper, as ground powder...one of powdered Ginger, and two of Powdered Garlic or fresh Garlic Juice...and about five Tablespoons of ACV.


Anyone showing 'frothy' Poops, 'Bubbley' Poops, white-ish film on poops or slimey Poops, or hints of Slow Crop, or poor appetite, would go on 'Medistatin' or 'Nystain' for few days or a week.


Anyone appearing ill in yet other ways, would, according to their particulars, if suggesting Bacterial or Trichonomal secondary issues, would get Metronidazole/Flagyl, or kindred...and, or, Batryl...or Doxycycline...or both...or all three.


Isolate individuals to as to be able to keep an eye on them...and same symptom ones can go in to cages together if short on Cages.


By now, if a Virus, everyone has been amply exposed...and the question is, who will it bother, and, how-so, if at all.



White Towels or White Paper Towels for Cage Botoms...changed daily...checking-inspecting poops daily.


Those who's Crops and GIs seem to be funcioning alright, but, who are not eating or not eating enough, I'd tube feed formula to which - for a Teacup worth once Mixed with Water - I'd add a level Teaspoon of the mid-level of hot Cayene powder...one of Ginger...one of powdered or a little less if fresh Garlic Juice, one of ACV, one of 'Nutrical', and a couple of Tablespoons of Elderberry Syrup...and, tube that.


Anyone throwing up...fasts for a day or two while getting Medistatin and or also Metronidazole...then tube 'formula' as above...if poops learn out and Crop seem alright then, after a couple days, I'd let them have Seeds and see how that goes.


Supplimental warmth for any 'fluffed' or not standing ones...


Whatever is passing through your bunch...sounds a lot like what passed through here a few weeks ago.


My friendly wager, in wrap-up summary...is - that this is ( probably ) a Virus, with incidental and differing secondary infections accompanying...with symptoms varying with the individual...and it'll run it's course, making it it's wake, whatever various opportunities for secondary infections.



Love,


Phil
l v


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

Margaret, how are they doing? I haven't been able to get online last few days and have been hoping to read good news. I really hope they are doing well!!


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## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

maryjane said:


> Margaret, how are they doing? I haven't been able to get online last few days and have been hoping to read good news. I really hope they are doing well!!


So far, no new illness. All but one of the quarantined ones have returned to the loft. The first hen to become ill is still in the infirmary. She is slowly gaining weight and getting stronger. I'm still keeping my fingers crossed that whatever this was is over and done with. Phil mentioned a possible virus with secondary complications. It could be. I may never know. I also think that fungus was involved.

Margaret


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## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

pigeonpoo said:


> Oh Margaret, What a nightmare for you, I am so sorry.
> 
> Rather than treat blindly, could you get the droppings checked at your vet? It should be no where as expensive as a necropsy.
> 
> Sue


Sue, 
I looked into that. He said that since they had been on medication, the results would not be very accurate or informative, as the meds action would mask the causitive agent. Once they have been off meds for a while, I'm going to do a loft fecal.

Margaret


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## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

Thank you everyone who responded. I really appreciated the input and it helped a great deal to have other assessments besides my own.

Margaret


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Margaret, I am so sorry to hear about Gus!!

This is the first time I've seen your thread and I hope you find out what is happening!

Sending loving supportive thoughts and hugs at this sad time.

I know we will all be anxiously awaiting updates!!

Shi


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## pigeonpoo (Sep 16, 2005)

It sounds as though things are calming down......keeping everything crossed that they have pulled through and there are no more poorly pidgies.


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