# Advice needed on caring for baby pigeon i resuced from my cats



## 50cent (May 23, 2012)

Hi all,

I have become the unintentional parent of a baby pigeon (not sure what type) which my cats had cornered in my garden.

I know you are meant to try to put them back by their nest etc. but I didn't do this since a) I had no idea where the pigeon came from and b) my cats (and neighbours cats) would recapture and kill it.

The baby wasn't injured and since I'm an animal lover, I had to take it in.

I am in the UK and there are no animal rescue centers anywhere near me. I thought about taking it to the local Vets but they deal with cats/dogs etc, not wild birds and they would most likely suggest having it euthanised. I don't want this and I feel it is my responsibility to care for the bird since it was my cats which took it from wherever it was.

I read about cats having toxins in their saliva, but I couldn't see any injuries on the bird. I have had it for 3 days now and it is still alive which is good.

My questions relate to feeding it, keeping it warm, housing it and ensuring it develops correctly.

I have attached a picture of it the day we found it (20th March). I'm not sure how old it was then, maybe 9 or 10 days? or what type of pigeon it may be?

*Feeding:*
I am feeding it with finely milled porridge, which I read is suitable on another website. I do not have any bird formula and local pet shops here don't sell it.
As you can see from the pic, I am using the method that mimics how it would feed in the wild. But I am worried I am giving it too much/too little food and that the consistency isn't correct. This morning I made the mixture a little more runny than I have been and it seemed easier for the bird to eat.

Is feeding it porridge (milled oats) OK? Since I am unsure of it's age, I don't know if I should be feeding it 15ml every 6 hours, or 40ml every 8 hours etc? I have read different things.

Should I start feeding it peas for the weaning stage yet?

*keeping it warm*
I don't have a heating plate, again my local pet shops don't sell them, so I have been shining a low power lamp onto the box in which I keep the bird. Do I have to keep this on all the time or just before I feed him to warm him up then?

*Housing*
He is in a cardboard box which has a lid with air vent holes. Should i be removing the lid now? Or is it best to keep them covered except for feeding?

Also, in the box is a soft cloth on which I place paper. Is this OK? I mean, would he be better on a firmer surface? Would this affect his leg development? It doesn't walk or anything, but when it's feeding time it will stretch up its neck and kind of lift itself up on its legs. I'm not sure at what point it should start walking.


Sorry for the long post, but I'm really worried about the pigeon, and I really want it to survive. It's so cute!

I am going home from work at lunch to check on it and see if it wants more food. I will take another pic then and upload it here you you can see it's progress, it may also help determine its age more precisely.

Thanks in advance


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi,

I'm just answering a call and will come back on to help you out, Just didn't want you to think you hadn't been spotted!!!!
Speak to you in a mo.

Janet


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## 50cent (May 23, 2012)

Thanks! Look forward to your reply


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi there,

Well you're doing a great job so far and the feeding method is ideal for a baby this young.

You can use Ready Brek cereal made up with warm water and at the moment I'd keep it quite runny. I've not used Oats but as long as it can be made runny with no lumps then I'm sure it will be ok.
Too young for peas atm.
As far as how much I'd feed about 10/15ml max.
It's most important to make sure his crop is emptying inbetween feeds so how often depends a bit on how quickly he digests the feed.
I expect you know this but the crop is like a sack under his neck where he stores the food but if it's over filled it will stretch and this causes a big problem as he grows. So only feed enough for the crop to feel soft and sqidgey, not solid and bloated. Let me know if this makes sense.

The housing is fine. As you're aware his legs need to be able to grip on the surface and not slide about so a towel or cloth covered in paper towel is ok. You could roll a small towel up and fold it in a circle to make a nesting area so he can snuggle into it, this will stop his legs from splaying out.

If you find his crop isn't emptying then you can mix some Apple Cider Vinegar, or baby apple sauce is ok with warm water and carefully syringe him some into the front of his beak so he can swallow. Don't squirt water into his throat as it may go down his airways and he'll aspirate.
Just give warm water like this for a while and gently massage his crop to help get the food moving.

ANything else you're not sure about, please ask and I'll be glad to try and help.

As far as cat injuries go, yes the cat's saliva is lethal so it's good if so far the baby has survived three days without anti-biotics. Hopefully he escaped being scratched.

Where abouts are you located in case there's anywhere we know that can take him over if you get him to release stage.

I can't tell from that picture if it's a baby Woodie or feral. Does it have any white strips along the edge of it's wings?
If so it's a Woodie. Do you get ferals in your garden?


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## 50cent (May 23, 2012)

Thanks so much for your reply.

I am in Stourbridge, West Midlands. I have searched on the net for local bird sanctuaries etc, but I couldn't find any. Any I am sure most vets wouldn't be bothered about 'just a pigeon'.

I am worried we may have overfed him this morning; we initially tried the feeding method in my photo, but I think the mix was too thick so he didn't seem to be eating much. So I used a soft plastic bottle with a long nozzle to squeeze food directly into the mouth. This works but I felt bad about forcing his beak open, especially since it feels quite soft and rubbery. I was worried I might injure him. So this morning we made the mixture much more runny and used the method in the photo. Pecker (yes, we've named him/her!), poked his beak inside and was gulping down the mixture. His crop seemed quite bulky afterwards.

I am going to buy a baby bottle in a bit and use that instead. It will be transparent so I can see how much he is eating and I'll try to ensure he gets 10 to 15ml.

We have him locked in the bedroom (to keep the cats out). The room gets direct sunlight so should be fairly warm in there. I keep Pecker in his box out of direct sunlight, I hope he will be warm enough but not too warm.

Is it worth trying to get hold of some Kaytee mix now, or do you think it will be ok to continue with the porridge?

I will take another photo this afternoon and post it here. I'm not sure about the markings, but I'm sure a photo will help.

Looking at the pigeons we get in the garden, I think they look more like wood pigeons but I'm no expert

Once more thing, I guess these baby pigeons have no sense of being 'full' then? After his 'big' feed this morning, he was still chirping for food and pecking at my hand. Poor thing!

Thanks again
Jason


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Jason,

You're right as far as they will keep squeaking even when full so don't be fooled into thinking Pecker's hingry!

(Love the name).
You can get the Kaytee online through a site called Northern Parrots but sadly it's not readily sold in pet shops.
Northern Parrots have just got some in but for now it'll be ok with the porridge.
the benefit of Kaytee is it's geared to baby birds and has all the nutrients they need, so it is good if you are prepared to get some.

I live in West Midlands but sadly over towards Walsall other wise I could have gladly given you some. If you can't get it let me know and I could post some to you.
I know it's not exactly local but there's a good sanctuary in Wythall that will take in pigeons if you felt it easier. It's about 28 miles, half hour journey if you need it to take over.
If it's to be released then ideally it will learn to survive better amongst others as the parents teach them the ways of the wild!

If you hand rear them they will become imprinted usually so I'm just saying to possibly think ahead so you can decide you aren't able to keep it long term it makes a difference as to how you need to progress as far as rearing goes.
They are very cute especially when they twitch their wings as you feed and you find you get very attached.

So as far as feeding now goes keep it runny and don't feed until he's on empty!
No need for water as he's getting hydrated with the liquid in the porridge.

AS it's so warm today it's fine in a warm room.

Right, you're all set and doing well. I'll keep checking back and if you have any more worries please don't hesitate to ask. 

Janet


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## 50cent (May 23, 2012)

Thanks for that info. Is this the one I would need?
http://www.northernparrots.com/kaytee-exact-hand-feeding-formula-parrot-prod577103a/

It is kind of you to offer me some, but I think I'll buy some and hopefully Pecker will benefit from it.

It's good to know Wythall sanctuary isn't too far away. I will consider taking him there if I start having any problems etc.

I have just got back from checking up on him. As soon as I open his box he started squeeking at me and pecking at my hand for food. His crop still feels full though so I will feed him later when I get home. Where is the best place to feel it to check for food? At the top closer to his neck or lower down towards his feet? Feeling it lower down, it felt kind of squishy, so I guess that means there was still food in it?

I have attached some pics of him I have just taken. You can see him pecking at my hand for food in one of them. Hopefully he looks healthy?

Yes, that is a good question about what the best thing for him will be if he survives and grows up. Maybe it would be best to eventually take him to that sanctuary for them to release him into the wild. I wouldn't have a clue how to do this and with my naughty cats close by, I wouldn't want to risk it.

Finally, could you guess his age from the photos? It would help me know when to start giving him peas etc.

Thanks so much for taking the time to reply.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi again,

yes that Kaytee is fine. I think there's one that says for 'all baby birds' which is what's on my packet but the picture on the one you've linked is the same as on mine. Maybe just changed the wording as I know they were out of stock recently and this must be new stock.

I'd guess Pecker is around 7/10 days.
If you gently squeeze the crop you maybe able to tell how much is in there more so at the bottom. If you can only feel substance near the bottom then it should be moving through.

Is he pooping ok, that gives you an idea if he's digesting it as well.

As long as the crop empties once a day he'll be alright so check in the morning before feeding and hopefully it'll be fairly flat.
If you have a way of weighing him that will show you if he's putting on weight.
As he grows you can increase the amount gradually. I never go above 35ml even once they're larger then once they're starting to get about and explore you can try the peas and start to wean.

Janet


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## 50cent (May 23, 2012)

Cheers for the advice 

I have ordered some Kaytee which should arrive tomorrow (friday). Ive also bought a small heated matt and a thermometer. In his box it is currently about 78 degrees f, hopefully this will be ok for him.

Regarding his crop, it definitely empties at the top, but the bottom, right under his breast, still feels like it has a bit of liquid in there, even after 6 hours between feeds. I really don't know what an fully empty crop should feel like. Will it still be a bit spongy, or perhaps like a very slightly inflated balloon? I think I'm getting a little paranoid about crop slowdown!

He seems to be pooping ok, but having just read a thread on here about what the form of the droppings can mean in terms of health, it has me worried, so i have taken a photo and attached it.

Does it look ok for a young pigeon? At the moment he is just being fed porridge, but from tomorrow it will be Kaytee (if it arrives).


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## 50cent (May 23, 2012)

*Lost weight*

I've just checked on pecker this morning. Yesterday morning he weighed 168 grams before feeding (first time i've weighed him), this morning his weight is 158 grams. Also when he tried to move around, he was pushing his beak on the floor to try to help himself move. I've never seen him do this before so I am worried something might be wrong - especially since he apppears to have lost some weight.

Do i need to be concerned? If so what should I do to help him?

I hope he is going to be ok


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

50cent said:


> I've just checked on pecker this morning. Yesterday morning he weighed 168 grams before feeding (first time i've weighed him), this morning his weight is 158 grams. Also when he tried to move around, he was pushing his beak on the floor to try to help himself move. I've never seen him do this before so I am worried something might be wrong - especially since he apppears to have lost some weight.
> 
> Do i need to be concerned? If so what should I do to help him?
> 
> I hope he is going to be ok


Is this little one on antibiotics? If he was rescued from cats, he needs to have antibiotics ASAP! Do you have any available? If so, what type?
Is that a cut or puncture on his back in the last picture?


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## 50cent (May 23, 2012)

Hi, 

The exposed skin on his back there isn't a wound, it is just exposed skin. I checked him and I couldn't find any wounds on him at all. I checked under the wings etc.

I have had him for 5 days now and from what I've read, if he had an infection from the cats, it would have been fatal by now?

I don't have any antibiotics. Can they be purchased from a pet shop here in the UK? Or would I need to get it from a vets? What antibiotics would he need?

I didn't take him to the local vet since I know they won't take him in to look after him, but would probably just euthanise him which is why I am looking after him myself.

Thanks


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Weight loss and using his beak to move is not a good sign. I don't know what's available in your location. Clavamox (augmentin) would be best. Amoxicillan would be better than nothing. Hopefully Amyable will be along soon to help you with what's available in the UK.


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## 50cent (May 23, 2012)

Ok thanks for that info. I will take a trip to the vets shortly and see if they will give me some Clavamox to administer to the pigeon. Vets are really expensive so I hope they don't charge too much, or maybe they will take pitty on the bird and give me some for free, I doubt it though.

The Kaytee exact has arrived so he will be getting better nutrition from now too which will hopefully help him.


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## 50cent (May 23, 2012)

Response wasn't good from the vets. The vet wouldn't even come out go talk to me so I had to speak to the receptionist. The said they normally just destroy them if they are brought in. If I take him in they will charge me the full consultation fee. I'm not sure what to do since I don't want them to euthanise the poor thing


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi, so sorry I wasn't around earlier.

Sadly vets over here won't often help with pigeons hence us having to try our best.
Do you think his crop is emptying ok?
They tend to push themselves backwards when trying to poop. Is he passing poops ok?

How much are you feeding him now?

Janet


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## 50cent (May 23, 2012)

Hi Janet,

I just took him into the vets thinking I'd just pay them since I want him to survive.
The vet wasnt there but a nurse took a look at him.

She said since he doesn't have any wounds they won't prescribe any antibiotics even if the vet sees him. So I'm kind of stuck now.

I am feeding him about 15ml at a time. His crop seems to empty ok which is good. I just fed him some Kaytee.

Yes he appears to be producing droppings OK. They tend to be a green/brown colour, very thin and surrounded by water. I hope this is normal?

He is still very enthusiastic about eating and still chirps for more after I have given him his 15ml dose, so i hope that is a good sign?

Thanks
Jason


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Apologies as I hadn't read your post about the crop.

It maybe that by me saying not to over fill that he's not getting quite enough now. Don't want to make you paranoid about the crop it's just often been the cause of blockage when they've been over filled.

Just to help things keep moving through just add a drop of Apple Cider Vinegar to the formula.

At his weight I'd feed about 20mls four times a day as a guide now you have the weight to go by.

Anti-biotics just can't be bought in the UK so it's very hard to find them over the counter.
I have some I could spare but would have to post them as not near enough to get them to you sooner.
I'd have hoped he was past danger as far as the cat went but there maybe something else going on. I just hesitate using them on this age unless it's urgent as we don't want to wipe out his natural immunities if possible.
If you want to send me your address in a Private Message I'm about to go out and can get them to the post office today.

You've got everything else in hand so let's keep fingers crossed and carry on doing what you're doing. 

Janet


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## 50cent (May 23, 2012)

Thanks Janet, I have sent you a PM


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

That's good to at least have him checked out.
I'm hoping it's just feeding that he needs now and it does sound as if the crop issues is ok.

I wouldn't worry about the poops, they don't look 'normal' on Kaytee etc so as long as he's producing some then great.

I'm not sure the anti-biotics are essential atm but if you want me to send some to have on standby then fine and I can always have them back if he picks up and doesn't need them.
We'll soon see if he picks up before they get to you and if so just leave them off for now.

Janet


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

hi, just got your PM as I was typing so will get them off today.

Janet


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Looking at the second pic in the three you posted together, this looks very like a pretty young woodie to me, so bear in mind they do move about slightly differently (more waddle) than ferals & droppings will be slightly different anyway.
I agree with janet, poops are diff on formula, maybe a little more formula will give more substance but just keep an eye that the crop is emptying before next feed.


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## 50cent (May 23, 2012)

Thanks for your replies.

I will start giving him a little more food then and keep an eye on his crop to make sure it is emptying.

A wood pigeon, very good. I hope he will grow up to be a big healthy one!

I'll let you know Janet when they arrive in the post - thanks again


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Right just off to the post office.

Yes definitely a young Woodie as Bob says.


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## 50cent (May 23, 2012)

He seems really weak and lethargic now. I dont know what to do. He been in a box in the bedroom with a light on the box. Temp inside is 80 degrees. But it Feels very hot in tbe room to me. Im wondering if hes dehydrated or too hot. I really dont know. On here it says drip water onto tbe beak. I juzt tried but it doesnt seem to go ln. Should i open his beak and give him water directly?


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Thanks for responding Amyable and Quazar! I don't know what's available or how they treat in the UK  .....And now I don't know anything about "wood pigeons"!
50cent, how much has he eaten today, and how rambunctious was he about eating? Is his crop still full? Sometimes if their real full, you can mistake 'lethargic' for just 'full and resting'.
I still think he should be on a heating pad, it will help his crop to empty, and if there IS something else going on he will need help maintaining his body temperature.


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## 50cent (May 23, 2012)

I did buy a heating pad but it stopped working today. I will exchange it in thhe morning. Ive fed him 3 times today. He would try to stand on his feet nomally and stretch his head up to feed. Today he just lies down and its clear he has less strength. I have taken the light off him thinking he might be too hot. Ill put it back then. He was using his wings to move earlier as if he was struggling. Havent seen him do that before.

His crop still seems to have food in it under his breast. I fed him last around 4.5 hours ago.

Thanks.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

As a temp measure rather than the constant light, a hot water bottle covered with a towel will help. (although it will have to be replaced when it cools) 
It has been unusually warm in the UK today, the 3 rescues I have have been pretty lazy today & even saw a couple of ferals "sunbathing" on a busy pavement outside sainsburys so he may well be feeling the heat, but as msfreebird says, he also needs to be warm to help the crop empty. 
As a matter of interest, when feeding, make sure the formula is not too cool as this will also slow down his digestion.
Water wise, if you guide his beak into a small dish of tepid water a few times, he may well start to drink on his own. Even at a young age they tend to learn that very quickly.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Jason,

I think I'd do what Quazar suggested and use a waterbottle wrapped in a towel underneath him if you have one but otherwise keep the light on him.

Don't feed any more atm but try and drip some warm water along the side of his beak and see if he'll sip it. I don't think I'd risk opening his beak and putting it in as he may aspirate.
Perhaps very gently massage his crop but be careful not to push the food up into his throat as again he'll aspirate on that.
Maybe he is going down with an infection. The meds are in the post, let's hope he can hang in there and see if they can help.

It is hard for you watching him I know but he may have other problems going on that aren't obvious so please don't feel it's anything you're doing or not doing.
Sometimes we feel we must keep doing something but as it is if he's been fed and is warm maybe let him rest and pray he pulls up by morning.

Thanks for doing all you have so far.

Janet


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

I noticed in the first pic his right leg toes were crooked. Are they still the same?


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## 50cent (May 23, 2012)

Thanks for the support. I just checked him again now and he still has some food at the bottom of his crop so ill leave him alone til thw morning. I sont have a hot water bottle nor microwave so i have positioned the lamp right on the side of the box so it should warm up inside but without shining inside. Yes his foot or toes rather do seem a little crooked. I noticed that from the start but just assumed it was normal.

Its so sad to see him like this. I hope he survives til the morning and perks up.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I hope he makes it too. He's very cute. I noticed his foot also. If he responds to your care and the meds, maybe later you could post better pics of his legs and feet.


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## 50cent (May 23, 2012)

He made it through the night which is great, but when i tried to feed him this morning he wasnt chirping at all and only ate a tiny bit, then he refused to put his beak into the bottle for feeding. I had added a little cider vinegar intopo the mix so I thought maybe he didnt like the taste. I just checked on him again and this time he did chirp a little. So i prepared some more feed (without vinegar) and he again only had a little then didnt want any more. At least he chirped a bit though which I am pleased with. 

His crop is empty so I really think he needs some food. I think i will use the syringe method to ensure he gets some nourishment. I think I'll make it quite watery so he gets plenty of fluids.

In terms of the antibiotics that Janet kindly sent me, I am hoping they will arrive soon. I have no idea how they are administered, I assume mixed into the food? So I will wait to see if they turn up before feeding him with the syringe.

I don't know if he need the anibiotics or not. I won't do more harm than good by giving him some will I?

My neighbour has lent me a hot water bottle, so I have it under his box so I din't have to shine the lamp onto him.Hopefully this way he will be calmer.

I have my fingers crossed that he is going to make it.


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## 50cent (May 23, 2012)

oh and yes ill post a better pic of his feet if he improves.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

50cent said:


> He made it through the night which is great, but when i tried to feed him this morning he wasnt chirping at all and only ate a tiny bit, then he refused to put his beak into the bottle for feeding. I had added a little cider vinegar intopo the mix so I thought maybe he didnt like the taste. I just checked on him again and this time he did chirp a little. So i prepared some more feed (without vinegar) and he again only had a little then didnt want any more. At least he chirped a bit though which I am pleased with.
> 
> His crop is empty so I really think he needs some food. I think i will use the syringe method to ensure he gets some nourishment. I think I'll make it quite watery so he gets plenty of fluids.
> 
> ...




He definitely needs the antibiotics if caught by a cat. Even a tiny jab that you cannot see is enough to make him sick enough to die. They won't hurt him. If you can put the hot water bottle wrapped in layers of towel til you can just feel the warmth, under him in the box, that would be better. You can feed him with an eye dropper too, by placing the food past his wind pipe, over the back of his tongue, so it goes down his throat. Be careful not to let him breath it in. Hope the meds get there soon.


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## 50cent (May 23, 2012)

Ok they have arrived but i dont know how to give them to him. They are tablets. Can i crush it and mix with water and give it to him into his mouth? His crop seems fullish so i dont think i should give him more food.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I have no idea of what meds you got. Did they not include directions?


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## 50cent (May 23, 2012)

Its called noroclav. 40mg amoxicillin with 10mg clavulanic acid. I need to give him a 1/4 tablet dose i think. No instructions so im not sure. When i cut the tablet into 4 it will have sharp edges so im not sure i should try to get him to swallow it


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I always give tablets by just putting them to the back of the throat and letting the bird swallow them. It is much easier and isn't going to hurt him.
Make sure of the dose before giving any. I think you're right in that it would be a quarter of a pill.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Jason,

I'm so sorry, have had no access to computer until now and was desperately trying to find out how things were going.
Great Pecker is still with you.

Right, as far as the tablets goes ideally it's best put in his mouth towards the back of his throat as he'll just swallow it.
You can't be sure if it's crushes in food that he gets the whole dose if he doesn't take all the feed or it doesn't digest fully.

It's fine put in his mouth, you could try and break the quarter into two pieces if it will do so and that will go down fine.
You could get some warm formula ready in a small syringe and straight after just put a blob on the end of his tongue for him to swallow and that might get the tablet to where it's needed to dissolve.

I do hope today has gone ok and will watch out later for any news when the computer's free!!.

Good luck

Janet


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## 50cent (May 23, 2012)

Hi. Thanks again for sending the tablets. I gave him a 1/4 and he swallowed it ok. I fed him last about 12. His crop is moving slowly so im going to give him a small bit of food witk some cider vinegar and check him again a bit later. His poop has a yellow liquid with it now so something is definitely up i think


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Warmed baby applesause works good to help get the crop moving.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Jason,

I'm just posting to say my internet is playing up and it keeps dropping out  so please don't think I'm ignoring you if I don't respond quickly!
Sometimes folks from across the seas don't respond as much if it's a Woodie as they don't have them over there to deal with. The Woodie diet is a bit different to ferals and their temperament is a lot different when adult. However, in a lot of ways the problems they have especially when as young as this are much like any feral pigeon of the same age so they could still come up with some valid advice if any UK member isn't about. So hopefully you won't be without answers if anything crops up, (excuse the punn) if I'm not able to log on at any time.

I'm pleased Pecker got the tablet down ok.

It's still good that he's hanging on in there as when they go down it's usually quickly and irreversably so I'm hoping I don't regret saying it but he's staying reasonable stable even though not as bright as at the beginning, so don't lose heart.

If you get a chance to post a picture of his latest poops tomorrow that would be good.
The poops when they're on Kaytee are generally like the Kaytee colour and as he's on quite a liquid diet atm maybe that's why they look odd. Let's see what tomorrow brings. 

Janet


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## 50cent (May 23, 2012)

Hi, thanks for keeping an eye on the thread. Last night he fed a little from the bottle and he did so today too. But not much though. When i feed him this way he tends to get feed in his nostrils which i have to try to clean out. Since he hasnt eaten much i am going too feed him soon with the syringe method. I dont like doing this since i feel bad about having to force his beak open. Also the tube i have is too wide to fit down into his crop. 

I have a 10ml syringe which i got from a vet but then didnt have a rubber tube to fit on then end. Does anyone know where i can get a suitable tube from here in tke uk which will fit on the end of a standard syringe end?

I was worried he wouldnt make it through the night but he is still here so im pleased.

He weighed 160g this morning so he hasnt lost any more weight. I guess he must be about 2 weeks old now. Amyable i will post a pic off his poop later when i take one.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Can you feed him from the bottle or syringe by cutting a smaller hole where he puts his beak in? They always seem to get a bit all over their face and nose, but it can usually just be wiped off with a damp paper towel.


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## 50cent (May 23, 2012)

The hole i made is just big enough so he can comfotably get his beak in. He puts his beak in and gapes. I then tilt the bottle so the feed runs into his mouth but he closes his beak before he removes it so the feed tends to cover all his beak. This time i could see the feed moving in and out of his nostriks as he was breathing and he looked like he was opening his beak a little to breathe. I managed to clean his nostrils enough so he could breathe again with his beak closed. It was really scary for a moment there


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Is the food thick enough. Too thin will be harder.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Can you feed him defrosted and warmed peas? That might be easier.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Jason,

Just want to say thanks to Jay3 for keeping in touch with this as my internet is still playing up.

So glad to hear Pecker's still doing ok.
I wonder if maybe the food could be a fraction thicker now as this would stop it running into his nostrils.
They always get a very messy face when feeding from a syringe where they put their beak into a slit. I just have a damp cloth on hand and wipe it away before it hardens.
I don't know if you happen to have any electric cable to hand Jason.
I was given this tip a long time ago from a lady who runs a wildlife centre. In the absence of a feeding tube, if you have some cable, you need to take out the wire inside leaving the tube empty. Sterilize it in hot water and this is a great crop feeding tube. (This is the size that's round).
I've never used anything else!
I always keep the end dipped in hot water before I feed it into the crop as this keeps it very supple. Just a thought if you feel this would be a way of feeding you'd be safe with.
Obviously you can buy proper feeding tubes on line but this is ideal in an emergency. I'm lucky as my hubbie has loads.

However, I think you can still get Pecker to feed ok from the syringe so if you feel more confident with this go with it.
You could try the defrosted peas also but as you have Kaytee it is better for him atm as it has all the nutrition he needs while growing so I'd try and stick with this if you can.

I'm just out for a short while, will check back later.
Janet


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## 50cent (May 23, 2012)

Thanks amyable and jay3 for your replys. we fed him about 30 mins ago. He seemed stronger in one since he stood on his legs briefly which he hasnt been doing but he was closing his eyes and sort of holding his beak down which has me worried. I wonder if he is a little dehydrated since he hasnt ate too much. We fed him a good amount (20ml) so hopefully this will help. Goung to give him his tablet now and ill dip his beak into a small bowl of water to see if he will drink a bit. 

I really hope he isnt suffering too much. 

I did look online for a tube but couldnt find one. Ill have another look. Good tip about the cable ill see if i have some lying around. He will feed from the bottle i have but only very little which wont give him enough energy so i will try and find a cable and use that until he hopefully gets better and his appetite returns.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I don't think that peas would be bad at this point, as in another week or so he could move on to seed. If you're not familiar with tube feeding, I don't think it's a great idea. It is possible to aspirate the bird if you are not experienced with tube feeding. When he does start eating seeds, limit the amount you give, as oftentimes they will over do and have problems emptying the crop.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

hi again,

He does seem to be a bit down. Youngster are so bouncy normally and usually pushing for feeding.
Thinking about it if you're concerned he's de-hydrated then try a few peas tomorrow as well as a bit of formula as these do give them moisture. I'd only give about four or five to start with to see how they go down.
Petite Pois are better as they're a lot smaller and I find they're easier for a younger one to take. If you have the normal size, take off the outer skin and split it in two, The centre is softer and less likely to cause a problem for his digestive system if he's struggling.

Another tip I was given a while ago when I had one of my own baby pigeons indoors as she was very poorly and weak, lost the use of her legs. I had to take over feeding her from the parents as she wasn't digesting food at all well.
It was suggested I use human baby soya milk powder and mix this with warm water and then made her Kaytee with this instead of water.
It's got a high calorie content and so it really helped keep her weight up. She did very well on it until she pulled through the crisis.

Still keeping fingers crossed he'll pick back up. Hear from you tomorrow.

Janet


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## 50cent (May 23, 2012)

Hi all,

Thanks for the detailed feeding advice from both of you.

However, throughout yesterday he didn't seem to get any better. He didn't want to eat in the evening and although he started to seem stronger in that he was holding his head up better, he couldn't keep his legs from sliding apart.

I had him on paper towels, then directly on a towel which should have provided plenty of grip but his legs would just slide apart.

It was just so painful for me to see him like this. I love animals and seeing them in pain really eats me up. I have become so attached to him I could think about nothing else all day, and it just got the the point where I really felt like he needed expert attention.

So this morning I drove to the rescue centre which Amyable recommended, in the hope they would be open and be able to help. I am glad they were able to take him in. They said they would get a vet to see him to see what help he needs.

They are closed tomorrow so I will call on Wednesday for an update.

In one way I am relieved since I was struggling to cope with seeing him in this poor condition and I felt I was unable to give him what he needed. But in another way I feel bad because it feels like I have abandoned him (plus I miss him!). 

I desperately hope the rescue center will do all they can for him.

I really want to thank everyone who helped me on this forum, especially Amyable. Without all your help and guidance I really don't think Pecker would have lasted this long. I notice this thread is longer than a lot of others in this section so I appreciate your time and effort in helping me.

I will post news here about his progress after I call on Wednesday.

Amyable - I have 2 unopened tablets left, if you want to PM me your address, I will return them to you, since I'm sure they will come in handy for you.

Thanks again 
Jason


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## 50cent (May 23, 2012)

Just realised I forgot to mention specific thanks to Jay3 too so I'm adding it here


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You did all you could, and as it was a place that Amyable recommended, I'm sure they will try to help him. Thanks for trying for him. If they can get him better then you have certainly saved his life. Will be waiting to see what they have to say on Wednesday. Will be praying for him.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Jason,

That was very kind of you to take Pecker to the rescue centre. I can imagine how hard it was to hand him over, I always hate the moment I have to part with any bird even if it's for release. They are all special.

There are two rescue centres in Wythall and I hadn't said which one but as you'd said they were shut on Tuesdays I expect it's the Wythall Animal Sanctuary as opposed to Holly Trees which is near there too.
I'm pleased to hear they took Pecker as they did stop taking pigeons a while ago as I think they concentrate on dogs. It's usually due to funds, or lack of which causes these decisions.
They were very good with pigeons so it would be nice to think they will still help them.
I don't know what was ailing Pecker but he wasn't acting like a healthy Woodie so you really did an amazing job as he certainly wouldn't have still been here if you hadn't put so much effort into researching how to care for him.
The rescue centre will do what they can I'm sure and I really hope he pulls through.

I will send you my address if you don't mind sending the two tablets back, that's very kind of you. I had two more cat caught birds brought to me today and so the meds are much needed for such emergencies. Sadly I don't have a vet that will give me meds and I rely on a friend that is lucky enough to be able to get them and I buy them from her otherwise I couldn't do rescues. That's the difficult part of doing this in the UK!

If you ever find yourself with another bird in need I think you'd make a really good rescuer. You took so much trouble. If anyone could have pulled Pecker back I think you could but sometimes there are underlying things going on and that may have been what put him in the position where he got injured in the first place.
Do let us know if you find anything out on Wednesday and thanks again.

Janet


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## 50cent (May 23, 2012)

Hi all,

Just an update...

I called the rescue centre on Wednesday and it was bad news. Apparently the vet put Pecker down. 

They didn't tell me why. It made me really sad and kind of angry with myself, thinking I should have kept him myself and just carried on with the meds etc.

But anyway, there you go. At least I tried as best I could I suppose. I am going to put bell collars on my cats to try and stop them catching birds, but I doubt it will help much.

Thanks again for all your help.

Amyable - I'll try and get the tablets back in the post to you today, haven't had chance yet. If I don't manage to do it today, I will definitely get them posted on Weds after the bank holiday weekend.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I'm sorry they didn't save him. Thanks for letting us know.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

That's a blow for you but maybe they could tell there was a problem so we have to accept the vet's decision was fair.
It's hard when you've take the bird there thinking it was for the best but you did it in good faith and it would have made you feel worse if Pecker had drifted on but declining daily.
He's at peace now and I have to say you did an amazing job and he was cared for.

Please don't panic about when you post the tablets. It's just good to have a back up if needed but I'm ok atm.

Thanks again

Janet


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I keep my cats inside.. they have a litter box and allot of attention. They go out on occasion when Im out on the porch with them.. cats kill allot of birds every year..they should be indoors IMO. 

you did well in trying to help this bird.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

I'm sorry to see he didn't make it. You did your best......and what you thought best. There could have been alot more going on inside the little guy, and maybe that's why your cat caught it to begin with. You did a wonderful job trying


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

I am sorry :-(
I can not tell you how many birds I find that are severely injured by cats.
That poor pigeon must have been really sick for the vet to put him down.


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