# Genetics behind this saddle?



## red2x

I saw this saddle homer at a show this weekend. Can anyone tell me the genetics behind this coloration? I would like to try and breed some. If I know what to breed, I can make sure I have the right genetics in my loft. 
It was more stunning in person.
The breeder couldn't remember off hand which pair it came off of but he thought a black cock bird (closed check, not true black) and an opal check hen.
Thanks


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## rudolph.est

It is a blue check dominant opal.

Dominant opal does not always express in the same way. Sometimes the pattern area (in this case the check) will be white, sometimes rosey like this one, sometimes just bleached out a little.


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## Shadybug Lofts

Is this the same color, or is it a lace?


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## MaryOfExeter

Yes, that one is also opal.

You are in luck as it is dominant, so easy to make more of them


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## Shadybug Lofts

Would mine be a opal bar or opal lace


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## Shadybug Lofts

This is what I got when I put an opal lace with a black.


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## MaryOfExeter

Yes, yours are dominant opal as well. Your laced bird must have either been a t-pattern or a het spread, and the black would have to be a het spread as well. Cause that one is a opal check


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## 19pigeonracer88

i liek these saddles very nice


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## CarloSantoro

Shadybug Lofts said:


> This is what I got when I put an opal lace with a black.


That is by far one of the sharpest looking birds iv seen in a while. looks great would love some of those.


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## horseart4u

OMG all three are just beautiful can i have 1 of each please


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## beatlemike

Saddle homers are my favorite bird and of them the blue bar saddle is my favorite. The three you all have posted are beautiful saddles also!


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## horseart4u

i would love to have a pair of saddles if i could, if i did get a pair i would love an opal like one of these and probly red or check.


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## MaryOfExeter

I have wanted to get saddles and put racing quality back into them. I just can't afford them.


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## 19pigeonracer88

how much are the sadles? and what colour racers could we put with them to keep the saddle effect but have more racing blood pumped into them once you have the first gen i suppose you could breed them back to the racing parent and use there babys as foundation for your own line of racing saddles??


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## Shadybug Lofts

This is the hen










This is the cock


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## horseart4u

OMG they are BEAUTIFUL when are they going to have more babies?


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## MaryOfExeter

19pigeonracer88 said:


> how much are the sadles? and what colour racers could we put with them to keep the saddle effect but have more racing blood pumped into them once you have the first gen i suppose you could breed them back to the racing parent and use there babys as foundation for your own line of racing saddles??


You can put them on any color and mate the kids together (to get the color back up if it's mismarked pretty badly), then put those back on racers. Saddle is complex and hard to perfect but luckily homers were created with a saddle breed so the genes are still floating around in racers. I do have a couple saddles that I have put with my racers and some of the kids came out mismarked saddles, but still pretty close.


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## MaryOfExeter

Shadybug Lofts said:


> This is the hen
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> This is the cock


Very pretty birds! Yeah the hen is a t-pattern. Spread opals have finer "lacing" usually


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## 19pigeonracer88

three gay pied racers of the same lines i would cross with saddles prefferebbly deep red check saddles and dom opal laced saddle n hopefully blue whitebar saddle........... would loveto get the ppure black with white bars into racers


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## beatlemike

Wow,that 3rd bird is awesome looing! Mismarked badly but awesome looking just the same.


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## 19pigeonracer88

id liek to transfer this to racers


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## 19pigeonracer88

them 3 are just classed as pieds in racers mate


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## Shadybug Lofts

horseart4u said:


> OMG they are BEAUTIFUL when are they going to have more babies?


In the spring, I have 5 now. Every one at the shows wants then so I don't think I will have any problem selling them. I only got 2 blacks out of 8 birds.


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## MaryOfExeter

The gene(s) you'll need to transfer is Toy Stencil. That's what puts white bars on colored birds. Doesn't effect the tail or anything else, unlike dominant opal and frill stencil.


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## horseart4u

19pigeonracer88 said:


> three gay pied racers of the same lines i would cross with saddles prefferebbly deep red check saddles and dom opal laced saddle n hopefully blue whitebar saddle........... would loveto get the ppure black with white bars into racers


these guys are pretty also love the markings, i bet if you bred a saddled to any of these you'd get some awesome saddles back.


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## beatlemike

#1 and #2 look like mismarked saddles to me and #3 looks like a pied. I quess there is a fine line when they passover from missmark to pied. Never the less, all three are nice looking birds.


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## 19pigeonracer88

beatlemike said:


> #1 and #2 look like mismarked saddles to me and #3 looks like a pied. I quess there is a fine line when they passover from missmark to pied. Never the less, all three are nice looking birds.


he is a pic of the grizzle hen iwould use with the dominant opal lace saddles to oput racng blood into them


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## red2x

Thanks for the replies. 
So it's genetics are just plain old opal in a check pattern. It is just expressed a bit differently in that bird, showing more bronze than white?
Here are three photos. Are these all geneticly the same, Opal, just the colors are expressed differently (White, Bronze and Cream)?


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## Pijlover

Your hen is outstanding, wish to have her in my stock


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## 19pigeonracer88

beautifull saddle im waiting to import 4 saddles from germany into the uk to start a racing breeding project as they will be crossed with my vanloons and louis cooreman super sprinters


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## rudolph.est

19pigeonracer88 said:


> beautifull saddle im waiting to import 4 saddles from germany into the uk to start a racing breeding project as they will be crossed with my vanloons and louis cooreman super sprinters


Why do you need to import them from Germany? There are plenty of good saddle homers in the US (http://www.saddlehomersusa.com/), and probably would be a lot cheaper than importing birds.

I actually don't know much about saddles, since we don't have any in South Africa (though there are a lot of people who are trying to breed them). I do assume that they should have some homing ability and that you would only have to breed stamina and speed into them if you want good saddle sprinters.


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## 19pigeonracer88

because i live in the uk and its only across the english channel therefore it will be cheaper for me as no quarentine i can drivce there my self and get them


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## rudolph.est

19pigeonracer88 said:


> because i live in the uk and its only across the english channel therefore it will be cheaper for me as no quarentine i can drivce there my self and get them


LOL - I should probably check people's details before I make the assumption everyone on here is in the US. ;-)


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## orock

Thats a pretty looking pair.


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## MyPigeonTexas

red2x said:


> I saw this saddle homer at a show this weekend. Can anyone tell me the genetics behind this coloration? I would like to try and breed some. If I know what to breed, I can make sure I have the right genetics in my loft.
> It was more stunning in person.
> The breeder couldn't remember off hand which pair it came off of but he thought a black cock bird (closed check, not true black) and an opal check hen.
> Thanks
> View attachment 21861


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