# oriental frills



## pakistan (Jun 8, 2011)

I just bought a pair of oriental frills...how ever when searching the internet for their care/feed and all i came across a very sadenning fact that oriental frills dun't have the tendency to come back to their home,even if they are kept at the respective homes for around 2 to 3 months?? unlike other pigeons

please tell me whether this is a real fact or not??


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

Fancy pigeons do not have a homing ability. You will not be able to toss them away from home. Homers are obviously the best for homing. Tipplers/high flyers have also been able to home up to 100 miles. I also had tumblers for a short time which would route around and I ended up tossing two of them around a half mile away and they came home right away. So tumblers may also have some homing genes but I don't know of anyone doing it.

Just to clear things up, they can be settled and be able to be yet out, just not not tossed at any distance.


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## pakistan (Jun 8, 2011)

Definitely fancies can not match the mighty homers/racers 

i am not much into racing,want to keep them as pets

good to know that they can manage short distances ,around where the loft is located

thanks


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

No, don't take them out anywhere, just let them fly around the loft. Out of the sight of the loft could very well mean lost. Don't take them anywhere to yet them go just let them fly around outside.


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## Chilangz (Apr 3, 2008)

Also fancy breeds can be a easy meal for predators. hence, just let them play around within the loft.


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

IMO that is like locking your kids up in a safe for there whole life. Amazing as it may sound to some people, not everybody have hawks in there area all year around. My fancies gone out almost everyday for 3 months and I have never seen a hawk. I have had one bird disappear mysteriously but kept letting my birds out everyday all day and haven't had anything happen. In the winter things are different.

Just to add to that, homers get hawked and lost during training, rollers are easy hawk bait and can even roll to there death but it doesn't keep people from training homers or rollers. so unless you have hawks everywhere I say give it a try, if a bird gets attack and you want to rethink letting them out then do so. But I'd be hard pressed finding a racer who has never lost a bird during training or from a hawk. If fear of losing a bird is too much then yes keep all birds, homers, rollers, fancies inside forever


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## pakistan (Jun 8, 2011)

For sure

but i like seeing them flying in the air....may be 2 or thrice a week ill let them out and fly around my home with other pigeons

thank you guys


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## pakistan (Jun 8, 2011)

in Pakistan, i live in Karachi

its a rare sight i see hawks attacking pigeons, i guess they are not used to the atmosphere of Karachi, and are happy staying on high places

but we have an alternatives of hawks that is the cat,i HATE THEM CATS I HATE THEM, they took away two of my pigeons , my lovely pigeons i hate them,yesturday i was sitting and the cat came so damn fast,just saw a balack thing moving,however,it slipped on the floor and gave my pigeons a chance to fly away

DAMN I HATE CATS


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## hamlet (Oct 26, 2004)

Hello. I was also got sad seeing my oriental frill drop like a ball after a short flight. It did not like my place I guess, because it did not try coming home from the streets.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I've never had a problem with settling Oriental Frills. If they get out of sight of the loft or your property, they are lost, like other fancy breeds.


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## hamlet (Oct 26, 2004)

*Friendly Cats*



pakistan said:


> in Pakistan, i live in Karachi
> 
> but we have an alternatives of hawks that is the cat,i HATE THEM CATS I HATE THEM, they took away two of my pigeons , my lovely pigeons i hate them,yesturday i was sitting and the cat came so damn fast,just saw a balack thing moving,however,it slipped on the floor and gave my pigeons a chance to fly away
> 
> DAMN I HATE CATS


I have lost a few birds in front of me to cats. I have read in books that cats can also guard pet birds. I had a chance and adopted an indoor raised young kitten. It was a grey tabby and I housed it side by side to my King pigeons. They got used to each other being outside under my supervision. Then one day as I was watching them a stray cat was eyeing the birds. As it was trying to attack, my young cat noticed and attacked the stray cat , sending it screaming away. Only bad thing I have read lately from P.T. is that cat saliva is harmful to pigeons. I do not have the cat or the Kings. They got stolen from me. But I am considering another tabby as mouser and a guardian of my pigeons day and night from other cats. God Bless.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I think the only problem is, is if they do get startled and fly a distance they may not find their way back..and that is a very real possiblility, so you have been told, it is up to you on what you want to do with them. I keep my fancy birds in a loft with a flight walk-in aviary and they seem very happy.


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## hamza syed (Jun 22, 2012)

hamlet, instead of cats u can keep dogs a much better thing and sorry to hear about ur birds &cat ...


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## birdofthegauntlet (Jul 10, 2012)

Print Tippler said:


> IMO that is like locking your kids up in a safe for there whole life. Amazing as it may sound to some people, not everybody have hawks in there area all year around. My fancies gone out almost everyday for 3 months and I have never seen a hawk. I have had one bird disappear mysteriously but kept letting my birds out everyday all day and haven't had anything happen. In the winter things are different.
> 
> Just to add to that, homers get hawked and lost during training, rollers are easy hawk bait and can even roll to there death but it doesn't keep people from training homers or rollers. so unless you have hawks everywhere I say give it a try, if a bird gets attack and you want to rethink letting them out then do so. But I'd be hard pressed finding a racer who has never lost a bird during training or from a hawk. If fear of losing a bird is too much then yes keep all birds, homers, rollers, fancies inside forever


best, most truthful examination I've ever heard on this subject! A lot of members on here will say rediculous things along the lines of "if you let your birds out they're all going to die" and and "if you let your birds out for five minutes a hawk will get them" and my personal favorite "hawks are literally waiting in the trees and under the rocks and in holes in the ground for your pigeons, they are cold blooded killers and you will have an army of them taking down your birds by the dozen."

thanks for the _honest_ advice to this pigeoneer, I'm glad somebody isn't intent on scaring everyone away from letting their birds do what they're meant for and not locking them in cages like they're in jail


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

Every individual pigeon keeper will have their own personal experiences to go by when it comes to letting out their birds. Some have had bad experiences, while others have been lucky enough to have not lost a single bird.

It is unfair to make accusations about "ridiculous things" being said when many of the posts come from experienced people who have kept birds a lot longer than you. You need to realize that at some point you are more than likely going to lose a bird or two, or more. 

People are trying to help others avoid making mistakes that may cost them their birds. Please do not insult those who are giving advice on how to avoid those losses


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

almondman said:


> Every individual pigeon keeper will have their own personal experiences to go by when it comes to letting out their birds. Some have had bad experiences, while others have been lucky enough to have not lost a single bird.
> 
> It is unfair to make accusations about "ridiculous things" being said when many of the posts come from experienced people who have kept birds a lot longer than you. You need to realize that at some point you are more than likely going to lose a bird or two, or more.
> 
> People are trying to help others avoid making mistakes that may cost them their birds. Please do not insult those who are giving advice on how to avoid those losses


People make a lot of false absolute statements on here as if they themselves know every outcome. Some of it is very well ridiculous. Its one thing to share experience its another thing to make absoule statements that could be wrong.

for example



MaryOfExeter said:


> I've never had a problem with settling Oriental Frills. If they get out of sight of the loft or your property, they are lost, like other fancy breeds.


That is an absolute statement intended to tell people that if the birds get out of sight of the loft they *are* lost. Not that they may be lost or even that they are most likely lost, they *are* lost. Its one thing to talk about possibilities but another things when you cross over to inevitability.

I dont how the amount of time people have kept birds really makes a difference. I know someone who has kept birds for a very long time an knows very little about teaching them to go outside. If someone kept pigeons for 30 years and always did the wrong things and then comes and talks about there experience doesnt mean they are right. Thats like someone who kepts homers for many years but everytime they let the birds off they flew off because he let them out way later than he should have. He then comes on here as says everytime he had let his birds out they got lost. It doesnt mean it is relevent or carrys much weight unless your willing to fully question them.


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## abluechipstock (Nov 26, 2010)

my classic old frills flew all the time with the homers, they were actually very agile and fast, i don't fly in cold weather due to the "h" word LOL!


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

Pakistan - it is okay to let your birds out to fly around your loft. Please do not try to train them to home from outside your loft area. And be aware that you may experience loosing some birds by flying them. It is the chance you take by free flying your birds.

Print Tippler/bird
You each have a right to your opinions, but my opinion is that MaryOfExerter's statement is right on. And i think most of the other, more experienced, members would agree with her. It has been proven many times that fancy breeds that are let loose beyond their familiar, known, loft areas will not make it back on their own. The frills that fly with homers will make it home because of flying with homers, not because of their own ability to home. Our forum is filled with threads for birds that need help making it home. 

People who don't learn from their mistakes don't last long in the pigeon hobby. Those that have the years in are here because they listened and learned from others. Your friend that does not know how to teach his pigeons to go outside may be doing so because that person is happy keeping his pigeons his way, not yours. That certainly doesn't make him a bad hobbyist.

I am personally more worried about your willingness to argue these points. The original poster had a question. We all took a swing at answering it for him. Why the flame up about what others said. I am more concerned that your comments may cause others to disregard the possible dangers that are out there and need to be addressed for the safety of the birds. Please think more responsibly before making statements that can and will endanger someone's birds.


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

My responces will be in bold next to your comments.



almondman said:


> Pakistan - it is okay to let your birds out to fly around your loft. Please do not try to train them to home from outside your loft area. And be aware that you may experience loosing some birds by flying them. It is the chance you take by free flying your birds.
> 
> Print Tippler/bird
> You each have a right to your opinions, but my opinion is that MaryOfExerter's statement is right on.*Is this an opinion or a fact* And i think most of the other, more experienced, members would agree with her.*You think or do you know? The fanciers on pigeon talk do not make up the whole pigeon fancier world* It has been proven many times that fancy breeds that are let loose beyond their familiar, known, loft areas will not make it back on their own.*Proven? Its proven that homers will get lost also...* The frills that fly with homers will make it home because of flying with homers, not because of their own ability to home.*This is mearly one example.* Our forum is filled with threads for birds that need help making it home. *Many of those are homer, but that doesnt prove what we are talking about. Once again i could toss a 1 month old homer out 5 miles away and have it get lost it doesnt prove homers cant be tossed 5 miles away.*
> ...


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## birdofthegauntlet (Jul 10, 2012)

go Print Tippler

Let me just say this, I didn't say anything about trying to "home" fancy breeds. Just because I am young does not mean I am inexperianced, I have raised pigeons for almost all my life and I have made mistakes and learned from them. 
It's just my belief that pigeons are happier and healthier when doing what they're made to do, and that is fly. They've been programmed with the escape instincts of prey animals and if you don't nurture them they will die. So when there is an emergency (ie because someone will probably argue, a cat gets in the loft) and you can't do anything, your birds will know nothing and they will be killed.


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

We have both had our say. As previously stated, you are entitled to your opinions. * And we are entitled to ours.* The one big difference is that no one else made statements that your opinions are *ridiculous things, and false absolute statements* 

You both need to learn some respect for other forum members. No one attacked either one of you, other than to respond with opinions of their own. There are rules governing the conduct on this forum and you both need to read them. 

We have hijacked this thread long enough. Please, no further discussion in this thread. Let's let it get back on topic. If either of you have more to say, Private Message me.


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

I dont feel its very fair that you can just come in get the last word out publicly and then say its done. If you wanted this to be private you could have PM me and made it private yourself. You want your responce to be public but mine to be private? I feel well within the forum rules and haven't attacked anyone. We had been on the topic all along. Ive been on this forum and its disrespectful to think i havent read the rules. Is saying that i need to learn respect very respectful in and of itself? You deleted a post of yours and then used your power as a moderated to make it look as if you didnt post at all... Are you going to ban me because i responded back to you after you seamly wanted to have the last words. As i see it you wanted to insult me publicly and not have me respond back.


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

Okay - fair enough. NOW YOU HAVE HAD YOUR SAY. NO MORE TO BE SAID. IT IS OVER.


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## hamza syed (Jun 22, 2012)

pakistan, 
its better for u to keep them *IN* as in Pakistan there are many Crow's and Eagle's ...
and every now-an-then u will see a fight between a feral and a crow..
u can make a Fly-Pen for them... so they could live happily...


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

I think the statement "if the bird looses site of the loft it's lost is a bit extreme" In most cases if they loose sight of the loft they will come back but I do not think this fancy breed could be released from a distance

Like said, Letting birds out is down to odds, Some will get lost but if you handle them right you can minimise losses.


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## ka_khan (Jul 23, 2012)

Just lost Indian Fantail.It flew with others and sat a short distance away from home.Was not able to trace its way back.
Any idea how far they could go and trace back?Homers could come back thousands of miles,triplers and others hundreds and how far could fancy pigeons travel?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

They shouldn't be flown with homers and such as they have little homing ability. Indian Fans don't fly all that well to begin with, so when out they are sitting ducks for predators.


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