# Feral Pigeon Turning Her Head in a Weird Way?



## ante bozanich

I've just seen a feral pigeon on my terrace turning her head in a weird circular motion to the side and then up in to the air. I think this indicates a serious illness from what I remember reading somewhere. I could not get her to come inside of my apartment. She flew away. I hope she comes back tomorrow. In the meantime I would appreciate if someone could point me to some info. in regards what I should do. Also, is this contagious to the other pigeons?

Thank you.


----------



## Pidgey

It could be the beginning of PMV (Paramyxovirus). There is a good thread about that here:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=12248

Pidgey


----------



## John_D

I concur with Pidgey.

That is often the first very obvious sign of PMV. Hopefully if she keeps coming back, you will catch her. After a while they become unable to fly well enough to escape. If you can get her, ensure she is isolated from any other pigeons.

John


----------



## ante bozanich

Thanks,

I was afraid it was not a good sign. I'll see what I can do tomorrow.


----------



## ante bozanich

I looked all day yesterday. I thought that she/he was one of my regulars, but that pigeon came in and ate. I could not see anything wrong with this bird. So ether I am mistaken and the pigeon with head circling symptoms was a different pigeon, or perhaps it was just a temporary thing. I'll keep my eyes open again today.

I do have another question, please. The feral pigeon who had pox-virus 
( http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=23050 ) is fine now. Looking at his eye you can't tell that there was that huge growth ever there. However he is still with me. He flew away one day but came back. My whole apartment is his and yes that other female couple who keep laying one egg after the other in their nest are still with me.

Here is my question: I have noticed that his wings when he stands hang down bellow his chest at least one inch. All of the other pigeons that I've seen have their wings close to their body. Will this be a problem for him when he starts flying out there more often?


----------



## Pidgey

I don't suppose you could take and post a picture of that, could you (the wing drooping)? They usually don't do that unless something's wrong.

Pidgey


----------



## ante bozanich

Unfortunately, my new digital camera which I got as a present about a year ago is still in the box... besides then I have to learn how to use it. In the meantime I think it is easier for me to draw a quick picture and scan it. I think I'll do that as soon as I have some free time. But simply speaking his wings stay dropped about one inch or so bellow his torso line when he is standing.


----------



## Pidgey

"Torso line"? Well, let's try this: do the wings droop below the base of the tail? We sometimes use the term "lobster tail" to indicate a bird with abdominal discomfort. You have to think of a lobster with it's tail curved back under itself. A pigeon with "lobster tail" is usually standing slumped down horizontal to the ground with the base of it's tail seemingly humped up and the wings partly lowered or dragging.

Is that what you're seeing?

Pidgey


----------



## ante bozanich

I think so. He is standing really high right now so I can't look at him properly. But, yes, the base of his tail and all of his torso is definitely above his wings. The wings don't touch the ground but they are bellow normal position. Also, the end tips of his wings are above the end of his tail while the tail itself is humped down a little. Now... he's been like this since I rescued him which is three and a half month ago. Rehabbers have told me that he had poor stomach flora. I was giving him some greenish jell that they have given me for a short time but I've stopped.


----------



## Pidgey

Yeah, I know. Is there any chance this could be a hen? Let's try a couple of somethings for kicks and giggles... go feel your other birds that you know are fine. What you're looking for is to feel the taper of the body's back half between the legs and the tip of the tail (the body part, not the feathers). Feel the underlying bones and just the entire basic structure is.

Then, feel this bird and see if there is any sense of "fullness", solidity or heaviness in the back end that the other birds don't have.

Also, count the bird's respiration rate in breaths per minute. For a healthy adult pigeon in basic rest phase (not flying), it should be around 30 breaths per minute. You might be able to make the count based on the tail bobbing up and down but there are other ways.

Pidgey


----------



## ante bozanich

Sure he could be a hen. I was only guessing. I'll try what you're asking me to do tomorrow night. These birds are wild and loose and not very easy to catch. I am going to sleep now so I have to wait till it gets dark again.


----------



## ante bozanich

Hi Pidgey,

Sorry for not getting back to you sooner with the answer.

By the way, I think the pigeon in question is he. This morning I saw him doing his cooing, stomping and going around dance.

The night before the last night I had thoroughly examined rear part of his body, between his legs and all. I did the same thing with the pigeon who has overgrown beak. I could not tell any difference. 

Besides this wing dropping thing, I see no other sign of any health problem with him. So... the question still remains. With this problem, will he be able to fly well enough and survive out there on the streets of NYC?


----------



## Matt D.

ante bozanich said:


> With this problem, will he be able to fly well enough and survive out there on the streets of NYC?


If he didn't have a health problem would he be able to survive out there on the streets of NYC?


----------



## GimpieLover

Here is a link to a good video of the head movements of a pigeon who has Paramyxovirus just incase the one who had it returns, or just for future look outs. 
http://youtube.com/watch?v=UWC58llOBzQ


----------



## ante bozanich

The pigeon that you people had diagnosed as most likely having PMV disease is back and is right now eating at my terrace door. She/he will not come inside to eat from the tall plastic containers which I have set up for others but I have put some seeds at the door and she is eating. I have watched her for a while and her neck twisting into the sky looks definitely like the video which GimpieLove had posted above for PVM symptoms. Good thing is that she can pluck onto the seeds and can eat as I am watching her right now. I am hoping that she is getting better and is going to make it.


----------



## ante bozanich

Hi Pidgey, John D and others,

The pigeon with twisting and turning of her head upwards has been coming to eat each day since my last post. I just got her. She is in a plastic cat cage and I am not sure what to do. I had watched her during the last couple of days. The symptoms of turning her head around and up into the air come and go. She had difficulty coming to the terrace door where I would place the seeds but when she did get there she was able to pluck and swallow with no problem. She does not seem to be underweight, as far as I can tell, and her crop seems to be relatively full. After I caught her and had put her into the cage, she seemed to have gone into a shock. She was lying there still with her head twisted up motionless. However, right now she seems to be fine and is standing on her feet. I am not sure if it was a good idea to capture her. I hope she does not have any babies out there. But at the same time, I was worried that when her symptoms act up that she might fall, get run over by a car etc. I have seen her fall off from a cabinet on my terrace as she was trying to come down to eat while twisting and turning her head upwards. 

Please... any thoughts or advise would be appreciated from anyone!


----------



## Reti

I think it is good you took him in. He wouldn't have a long life out in the wild with those symptoms.
You can offer him some seeds, seems like he can eat on his own. As for water, I heard horror stories where PMV pigeons drowned during a "fit". So best you offer him water a few times a day and watch him when he drinks, then remove the bowl.
You can offer him some heat for now.
It sounds like PMV and there is no medicine for it, just let it run it's course.
The symptoms seem to aggravate when they are stressed btw.

Reti


----------



## Pidgey

I have two in my loft that have occasional fits and there's no way they could evade a predator for long. Yes, that sounds more like PMV to me than anything else.

Pidgey


----------



## ante bozanich

Thanks Reti and Pidgey,

Now, thinking about it, I am amazed that she was able to survive in this condition out there since the first time I saw her which is over three weeks ago. 

My only worry now is that she or he may have two youngsters out there waiting to be fed. I don't wont to be possibly saving one life while endangering two. But my question then is, *would in this condition a pigeon be mating, laying eggs and raising babies?*

Anyway, earlier today, after I brought her in, I had put the cage at a place where she could see the other pigeons eating. She ate for at least five minutes. I did not see her drink so I had tried to drip some water on her beak. She did swallow some of it. Most of the time she is lying in her cage still with her head on the ground twisted to the side and her beak upwards. There are already about ten droppings in the cage. They are relatively small and look normal, as far as I can tell.


----------



## Reti

It is always a worry if they have babies out there that need to be fed. Let's hope this is not the case with your new rescue. I forget where you live, but if it is cold where you are and considering s/he has been sick for a while it is unlikely. Even if, lets say s/he had babies, probably s/he passed on the virus and the babies wouldn't make it.

Reti


----------



## Skyeking

Reti said:


> Even if, lets say s/he had babies, probably s/he passed on the virus and the babies wouldn't make it.
> Reti


It is possible she has babies, but not likely considering her degraded state. Also, you would see her coming back and forth to eat if she was feeding young when she was outside.


----------



## ante bozanich

Well, I had only watched her for a few days before I took her in. She did come to the terrace couple of times per day but not back and forth as I've seen some of them do.


----------



## ante bozanich

PS I guess, I'll never know for sure.


----------



## ante bozanich

This is exactly what my rescue's head position looks like most of the time when she is resting inside the cage:









*Link*


----------



## TAWhatley

ante bozanich said:


> This is exactly what my rescue's head position looks like most of the time when she is resting inside the cage:


Good thing you have her in and safe, then. Hopefully the symptoms will resolve with time and care.

Terry


----------



## Reti

Oh, poor little birdie. I am so glad you were able to catch her and s/he is safe now.
S/he should get better in time, it might take a while though.
Best of luck.

Reti


----------



## ante bozanich

Considering that right now it's 10F and feels like -8F outside (New York City), I think she is lucky indeed that I was able to catch her. 

I suppose, since she does not have diarrhea or any other perceivable symptoms, this neurological problem of "star gazing" is a later stage of this disease from what I've read. I just hope that this is not a permanent condition in which case, it seems, she is going to have to spend the rest of her life with me indoor.


----------



## Skyeking

Sometimes they do have recurring symptoms, as Cynthia has mentioned, it is best to keep them inside and under supervision for a long time. They may show no symptoms at all until they are stressed due to the cold, or lack of quality food, and the environment itself.

Thank you for caring.


----------



## Pidgey

She really looks like a homer with that nose, and a beautiful one at that. I wanna' say that she's a ringer for Feefo the Beautiful, a PMV bird that Cynthia had. Just look at Cynthia's avatar: 

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/member.php?u=560

By the way, you're going to want to be real careful with water for this bird. It's possible for them to drown when having a seizure so make sure that you don't have water in there in such a way that she can get her head in it.

Pidgey


----------



## TAWhatley

Pidgey said:


> She really looks like a homer with that nose, and a beautiful one at that. I wanna' say that she's a ringer for Feefo the Beautiful, a PMV bird that Cynthia had. Just look at Cynthia's avatar:
> 
> http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/member.php?u=560
> 
> Pidgey


Actually, I think that is a picture of Feefo .. http://www.pigeon-aid.pigeon.net/ and http://www.pigeon-aid.pigeon.net/pmv.htm and that Ante just posted the picture as an example of how the bird she has is holding the head and the posture of the body.

Terry


----------



## Pidgey

Well... shucks... the only picture I can consciously remember ever seeing of Feefo was Cynthia's avatar. Oh, well, she musta' made a pretty good imprint in my mind, huh?

Pidgey


----------

