# Question about Nucadin (Newcastle vaccine)



## hilary (Jun 20, 2002)

I've given up trying to get PMV vaccine in Israel. I wrote to a company in South Africa and they tell me they have Nucadin (Newcastle vaccine). They have no problem about sending me this. They have 10 ml and 50 ml.

My question - this is an okay vaccine to give to Hercules?

Hilary


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## raynjudy (Aug 22, 2000)

Hilary:

Here are some excerpts from "A Veterinary Approach To Pigeon Health", by Dr. David Marx, DVM:

"Over the last several years, the subject of vaccination for Paramyxovirus (PMV) has been a major topic of conversation... The two principal issues are: (1) whether the LaSota vaccine is an adequate substitute for the oil based PMV vaccine..."

He goes on to say:

"Pigeons get little to no protection from live chicken vaccines and the only way to get a dependable PMV protection is to use the killed virus oil-emulsion, approved vaccine...The fact that the LaSota vaccine requires successive applications, should be a tip off as to its unpredictability."

So, if Nucadin is oil-based and derived from the "killed virus", it's in the neighborhood.
Oddly, Marx does not name the vaccine, patently--he just calls it "oil-emulsion injectable vaccine" (based on the dead virus).

He recommends vaccinating against salmonellosis (Paratyphoid) at the same time--but do not mix the two vaccines in one syringe, as one is oil based and the other water based.

--Ray


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Hilary

I can't find Nucadin listed anywhere as effective against PMV, and wonder whether a vaccine created for Newcastle disease would be effective as it is a different strain of the virus.


I copied this from a pharmacy site : 

_Paramyxovirus

Paramyxovirus in pigeons is mainly caused by the viral strain paramyxovirus-1 [pmv-1]. A different strain of paramyxovirus causes Newcastle disease in poultry. These diseases are notifiable in the UK. 

In pigeons, the virus is spread in faeces [droppings] and nasal secretions. Young birds are more susceptible to disease and clinical signs include watery, discoloured faeces and nervous disorders such as paralysis, twisting of the neck, and incoordination. Non-specific symptoms include ruffled feathers, increased thirst, and listlessness.

There is no treatment for the disease but there are vaccines available for its prevention. Only healthy birds should be vaccinated. Racing pigeons should be vaccinated against pigeon paramyxovirus. Annual re-vaccination with an inactivated vaccine will maintain protection. It is likely that furure EU Legislation will require all birds to be compulsorily vaccinated before both South Road and North Road racing.

For Paramyxovirus, Vet-medic Pharmacy Recommends:
Colombovac PMV Vaccine 
Colombovac PMV/Pox Vaccine 
Nobi-vac PMV Vaccine 

Detailed instructions are included with each medicine, we therefore recommend you always read the package labelling or leaflet within the pack, before using any product. _


I am not quite clear about why you can't oredr from Foys? I checked our UK site from which you can order on line http://www.pigeons.co.uk, but they seem much pricier.

Cynthia


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## raynjudy (Aug 22, 2000)

Hi, again. Did some "light" reading for you...









NDV (Newcastle Disease Virus) is in fact a form, perhaps the parent form, of PMV (Paramyxovirus)--or at least they're in the family. PMV-1 is likely a mutation of NDV. 

Section Five of "AVIAN MEDICINE: PRINCIPALS AND APPLICATION" (Ritchie, Harrison And Harrison), titled "Disease Etiologies", offers much on the subject of "Paramyxoviridae". At my best, much of this is WAY over my head. This book is a research reference for use by a trained DVM or researcher.

Still, it does render some treatment advice in fairly lucid verbiage...

The authors essentially agree with Marx's advice (see previous post) I've annotated in [brackets]:

"PMV-1 PIGEON [There are many strains of PMV-1. This one is PMV-1/pigeon/Munich/14/83 Host spectrum: Pigeons, doves.]"









"LaSota vaccine strains are not as efficacious... [Don't work]."

"Inactivated vaccines are preferable for pigeons [Dead virus]."

"For vaccination, homologous, inactivated oil emulsion vaccines are commercially available [Oil-based dead virus vaccines]. Annual boosters are necessary."

"Squabs from hens vaccinated three months before laying may not have protective antibodies. [Vaccine may not 'take hold']" 

"Squabs can be vaccinated...by four weeks of age."

"Inactivated NDV [Newcastle Disease Virus] vaccines provide only six months of protection [Hence, the boosters!]."

"Vaccines are best applied subcataneously [just beneath the skin] in the neck [Danger Will Robinson! Not for the inexperienced!]"

The book does give instructions on "how" to give the shot--hell, there are surgical procedures explained and illustrated in here!--but does not give the dosage.









And again, the vaccine is not patently named!
Further, the "Formulary" of this elaborate book does not even list Nucadin.

Hilary, if you find a source for vaccine, it should fit these parameters: Oil-emulsion based "killed virus" vaccine for PMV-1 PIGEON.

I'd be a lot happier to see you hooked up with an avian vet in your area!

Give Herc a nuzzle and a kiss form Judy and me.









--Ray


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## WhiteWingsCa (Mar 1, 2002)

crazily enough, even with all the information readily at hand (as you've found), our race club uses Newcastle-K vaccine for all their pigeons (we have a rule that the birds must be vaccinated, or they aren't allowed on the race trailer).

We've read articles similar to those printed here, and started buying our own vaccine from the U.S. supply stores -- the stuff from Maine Labs, which is made specifically for pigeons, not chickens









That said, we don't have any cases of PMV around here, so I guess the Newcastle vaccine does work somewhat. So Hilary, as mentioned, if this stuff is oil-based, killed virus, it might offer some protection.


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## hilary (Jun 20, 2002)

What a sage. I now bought a vaccine against Newcastle, but am really hesitant to give it to Hercs as this is specifically for poultry. My vet is also concerned.

I'm now again trying to order from overseas a PMV vaccine specific to pigeons. Foys Pigeons never replied to my e-mail. I e-mailed another company in Germany or Belguim (can't remember) and they only sell to vet supply companies, not individuals. Global Pigeons say they cannot send to me because it will spoil. HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

Yesterday I got Tooty vaccinated against PMV..I bought my vaccine (Maine Biological Labs) from Sigegel, 
I went to see the man and he raises fancy pigeons(Beautiful birds!!) the type with short short beaks..He looked at my vaccine with a strange look and was wondering where I got it from, I think he uses the normal type for chickens ..Anyway his pigeons look very good and he lets afew fly around and he never had a case of PMV so I think the vaccine he uses is good!
As WhiteWingsCa says there are people here in canada that use that vaccine....If you can't get the pigeon vaccine, If I were you I would use that one since next year in October Tooty will be vaccinated with the mans pigeon and with his vaccine...









Mary









P.S Tooty is feeling abit sick today and couldn't fly in the morning...I think that is normal!?


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