# Thunder Pidgey



## AZfiddler_1996 (Jul 13, 2005)

They wouldn't send, Pidgey.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, I got them in my email box. This wound doesn't look too bad. If you put water in does it pour out?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Do you have any idea how fresh the wound is? Did he get it today or has he been out for awhile and just got in today?


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## AZfiddler_1996 (Jul 13, 2005)

She got it somewhere between 8 and 10:40 this am. The blood was hard on the feathers that I cleaned off.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

How is the bird acting?


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## AZfiddler_1996 (Jul 13, 2005)

It poured out with a lot of flaky red stuff.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I ask because this wound seems high on the neck and it's not the most wonderful thing if a talon pierced anything on the inside. I'd put him on 2 drops of Baytril down the throat, twice a day, considering the meds that you have in stock. I'm really hoping that it doesn't leak water but we really need to know.

Pidgey


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## AZfiddler_1996 (Jul 13, 2005)

She's warm and doesn't move but I think she's acting good considering. She drank twice.


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## AZfiddler_1996 (Jul 13, 2005)

I don't think it hit her crop? It could've been a cat for all I know.

She's got 2 other punctures.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

You mean water poured out of the wound? How did you get it down him--tubing? Here's the deal--I've got to go to a meeting at 2:00 pm and you're going to need to get one of those cheap plastic otoscopes like you can get at a drugstore or some other way of being able to look inside that wound to see if you can find the edges of the esophagus that are cut. It may or may not be something that you can deal with. 

It may require some really small feeds done with the tube method during the day and let it heal on its own but you may have to be real careful about putting the tube down to keep it from exiting the esophagus (that's cut) and going on down to the crop.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

What do you mean by you don't think it hit her crop? Be very specific--did water come out of any holes when she drank?


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## AZfiddler_1996 (Jul 13, 2005)

The cavity is hollow. Thank you, Pidgey.


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## AZfiddler_1996 (Jul 13, 2005)

Pidgey said:


> What do you mean by you don't think it hit her crop? Be very specific--did water come out of any holes when she drank?


 I honestly don't know exactely where the crop is. No food or anything was leaking. No water leaked. I think the puncture just missed her crop.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Then what was pouring out with red flakey stuff earlier?


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## AZfiddler_1996 (Jul 13, 2005)

> Well, I got them in my email box. This wound doesn't look too bad. If you put water in does it pour out?


Water that got in it from washing.


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## AZfiddler_1996 (Jul 13, 2005)

That puncture is below her wing.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Oh, then, hopefully no problem but closing the wound. You can sew something this easy up with needle and thread if you like or you can use some of that suture material that I sent. It'll heal in about three days if you can keep it closed.

Pidgey


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## AZfiddler_1996 (Jul 13, 2005)

Pidgey said:


> *I ask because this wound seems high on the neck and it's not the most wonderful thing if a talon pierced anything on the inside. * I'd put him on 2 drops of Baytril down the throat, twice a day, considering the meds that you have in stock. I'm really hoping that it doesn't leak water but we really need to know.
> 
> Pidgey


 You said that because you got the e-mail which had this (TP6) picture in it, I'm sorry. That is another wound than what the pictures in my first post show. I think that it (anything on the inside) is not punctured, just that the skin was ripped and separated from the flesh. If you pull gently up on the feathers you can see further underneath the skin. I hope that there is nothing wrong there, I can see no punctures into the flesh.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, if the bird doesn't look like a sprinkler system when it drinks then we're hopefully in good shape but I'm not going to kid around with you here--sometimes hawk attacks have pierced things inside and the bird dies within a day or two. Just keep her quiet, medicated and in the house for a couple of days and get the holes patched up that you can to speed healing and keep anything underneath from drying out. Very small holes don't need to be worried with. It'd probably be better if the bird were on Amoxicillin instead but I don't remember that you had any of that. Best of luck.

Pidgey


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## AZfiddler_1996 (Jul 13, 2005)

My mom is going to bring Amoxicillin when she comes home from Mexico today. 
Thunder Pidgey lost a lot of blood.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Yeah, I can tell that there was a fair amount of loss and that's typical. A lot of racing pigeons that get hit in the air like that lose a lot of blood while flying, trying to get home and get weak enough to literally fixate on someone's back porch and land, hoping that the people inside will be friendly and help them out. I've gotten at least one that way that I can remember. It usually takes them a day or two to get past the blood loss and then they get more difficult to work with. If you're going to sew her up, now's the time to get after it. Do the Amoxicillin like you did with the previous birds you've used it on but double or triple the dose that you gave to Popeye.

Pidgey


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## AZfiddler_1996 (Jul 13, 2005)

OK, I will. 

I'll have to look on Popeye's thread for the dose again b/c I've forgotten.

Thank you so much.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

So have I. Seems like it was 100 to 150 milligrams per kilogram, three times per day. That's actually the dosage for a bad bacterial infection in the gut. It's less for a bird with other stuff but most of the time the formularies don't tell you that.

It seems like I remember you took a 1000 milligram pill and dissolve it in 40 milliliters of water and dosed that at 1 milliliter per day because you couldn't get there often enough to dose it the normal way.

Pidgey


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## AZfiddler_1996 (Jul 13, 2005)

* It is leaking. I got her to drink again and it leaked out of the puncture that is shown in my first post which is already sewed up.  What... does that mean? *


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

AZfiddler_1996 said:


> * It is leaking. I got her to drink again and it leaked out of the puncture that is shown in my first post which is already sewed up.  What... does that mean? *


Hi Alice,

You probably missed a tiny stitch/area when closing the inner layer. Pidgey is the expert here, so I'd suggest waiting for him to respond, but I suspect you are going to have to open up the area and stitch it closed again.

Terry


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## AZfiddler_1996 (Jul 13, 2005)

Ok, I'll go do that right now, then. I was hoping it had missed it...

Thank you.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Good luck Alice. It sounds like you are getting some expert advice.


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## AZfiddler_1996 (Jul 13, 2005)

Thanks, Warren.
I haven't seen you around for a while?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, I'm in the know, and I know that Pidgey's sitting in San Juan, Puerto Rico at the moment.

I'll tell you what that means: There's an inner cut and an outer cut. The inner cut must be to the crop and it'd be best to find that cut and stitch it up and leave the outer one open for a couple of days while that heals (the crop). That's not going to be very easy, though because it's a small wound, relatively speaking. What you'd almost have to do is use forceps (tweezers) to find the edges of the crop wound and tow them out to the surface of the skin wound to suture them together. This can get pretty fun but remember--it's not so much life threatening as it is pure nuisance. I'll tell you this, too: water can leak out of a crop from a pretty small hole or nick. If you can determine that the nick is really small, you'll do just as well to tube feed the bird pretty tiny installments of food (~5 ml), leave the outer wound open and just keep an eye on the inner wound--it will want to seal on its own.

Now, since I've said all that, I'll go back and look at the first picture to figure out whether it's practical or not because it might not be, depending on the location. For instance, if the natural stance of the pigeon is one where this hole is at or near the lowest hanging portion of the crop, it's not as doable.

Pidgey the Puerto Rican


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, I looked. Does this mean that it's leaking out of the hole that's almost slightly below and almost forward of the forward portion of the wing with the pigeon standing normally? It's possible that the talons were curling inward to the center of the bird and that the puncture in the crop is to the left of the wound that you see--that's where I'd go looking under the skin. The outer wound may pull over there so that you can get a better look or you may have to do the cheap otoscope (for looking in ears) thing that we discussed earlier.

Pidgey


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## AZfiddler_1996 (Jul 13, 2005)

Yes, it's that wound (it's not leaking anymore, I "fixed" the "outside" wound). Ooh _gross_. What has The Rich Port done to you, anyway, Pidgey?! 
Her poops are an inky black- bloody?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Not surprising since blood probably went into the crop as well as outside the body. Gotta' tell ya' though, it's still one of those deals where it's going to be scary for a few days.

As to sealing the wound on the outside, yes, you may have and that may or may not have done the trick. When there's a hole in the crop with the outer skin sealed off then foodstuffs and bacteria may leak into the space in between where it sometimes rots and causes an abscess to eventually slough through the outer skin. In such a case, you get the formation of a "fistula". It can be as simple as a nuisance or as bad as life-threatening. The maintenance of a systemic antibiotic will usually ward off mortality but it may not stop the formation of the fistula.

Pidgey


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## AZfiddler_1996 (Jul 13, 2005)

So I'm stuck. Well, at least I've got a patient patient. Where, pray tell, can I get an otoscope?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I hate patient patients--it often means that they don't feel like fighting and that always worries me.

Anyhow, they've got these real cheap ones (~$10) at drugstores like Walgreen's. Shoot, I'll bet you could get them at Wal-Mart, for that matter. Get on the telephone and let your fingers do the walking!

Pidgey


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## PIGEONFAIRY (Oct 10, 2006)

Pidgey said:


> Well, I'm in the know, and I know that Pidgey's sitting in San Juan, Puerto Rico at the moment.
> 
> Pidgey the Puerto Rican



Ms. Licha - Just want to let you know that the Guardian of Broken Pigeons has been in DIRE need of rest and relaxation for some time now.

While he keeps in touch, the rest of the time, he is, hopefully, getting the relaxation he so desparately needs. 

All work and no rest does not a sharp mind make...

My love and healing powers to you both,

Guardian of Broken Pigeon's PIGEONFAIRY GODMOTHER


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## AZfiddler_1996 (Jul 13, 2005)

I know that but I'm not sure what Ida done if my patient wasn't patient b/c I had no one to hold the bird. She doesn't move _at all_. When I got home from school she was still sitting in the same position that I left her in when I left this morning. 
I'll call Wally-Marty...


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## AZfiddler_1996 (Jul 13, 2005)

PIGEONFAIRY said:


> Ms. Licha - Just want to let you know that the Guardian of Broken Pigeons has been in DIRE need of rest and relaxation for some time now.
> 
> While he keeps in touch, the rest of the time, he is, hopefully, getting the relaxation he so desparately needs.
> 
> ...


lol You were in DIRE need of it, Pidgey, did you hear that? 
The lady at Wal-mart _said _that, "No, she doesn't sell them out there."


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, I really don't like the sound of that but only time will tell. She may have lost a lot more blood than we know. I hope she didn't get nicked in an artery in the neck. 

Just out of curiosity, can she stand or is she sitting in her own poops? Is she eating on her own or not eating at all?

Pidgey


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## AZfiddler_1996 (Jul 13, 2005)

She's not sitting in her poops, I fixed that for her, but she tumbles over her head when I set her on her feet. I was able to get her to stand yesterday for a little bit. If I put my hand there on the bad side for her to lean (fall) against then she'll stay on her feet but she falls to that side over her head and can't get out of that horrible position.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Okay, let's try it this way: Walgreen's doesn't call it an otoscope but here's a product webpage:

http://www.walgreens.com/store/product.jsp?CATID=100125&navAction=jump&navCount=0&id=prod1491340

Pidgey


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## AZfiddler_1996 (Jul 13, 2005)

She's not eating on her own. I got her to drink again this morning and I've put a few seeds down her but that's it.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, it's been a tad over 24 hours ago. The blood loss may take some real time to get over and there may have been some damage to the neck that may have something to do with motor control. I'm having a difficult time remembering how long it took for Purple Heart to come back to somewhat-normal after his incident with the hawk. It doggone sure wasn't immediate but he'd been grabbed on the back and the injuries were relatively superficial even though the blood loss had been significant.

Pidgey


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## AZfiddler_1996 (Jul 13, 2005)

The closest Walgreen's is 50 miles away but I'm sure Wal-mart has it. It's just the way it is here for them to rarely try to find out for you when they don't know. I've just got to go down there and look myself.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Realistically, it's probably not too good of an idea for her to eat just yet. If she's for all-intents-and-purposes anemic right now, it might take too much energy to process it for the moment.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Do you have any chain-drugstores there?

Pidgey


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## AZfiddler_1996 (Jul 13, 2005)

I was able to get to the other wound under her wing and there is another puncture there that looks a lot like the one in my first post but it's not as long.


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## AZfiddler_1996 (Jul 13, 2005)

Pidgey said:


> Realistically, it's probably not too good of an idea for her to eat just yet. If she's for all-intents-and-purposes anemic right now, it might take too much energy to process it for the moment.
> 
> Pidgey


I've fed her 5 seeds three times. 
I can try Safeway if Walmart doesn't have it and my mom or dad would probably know of somewhere else to look.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Listen to her breathing with the stethoscope and see if you hear any weird noises that you don't normally hear in Pirate or another bird.

Pidgey


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## AZfiddler_1996 (Jul 13, 2005)

Pidgey said:


> Listen to her breathing with the stethoscope and see if you hear any weird noises that you don't normally hear in Pirate or another bird.
> 
> Pidgey


 Her heart is beating very slow and inconsistently. No weird noises.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

How slow--did you count the beats? And how inconsistently?

Pidgey


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## AZfiddler_1996 (Jul 13, 2005)

I didn't count the beats but I will go now. Oreo Cookie's were consistent, one right after the other, no where near as fast as Bubbles' were but probably faster than normal (whatever normal is). Thunder Storm would beat 2 or 3 and then pause and then beat 2 or 3 again and pause...


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

We're really running on idle then. Keep her warm and let's see if we can ride this out. We'll know a lot more in 24 hours. Just put little amounts of water in at a time (with some electrolytes, like the normal solution that Cindy discusses) and don't bother the wound although you might try and see if you can keep it elevated a little bit.

Pidgey


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## AZfiddler_1996 (Jul 13, 2005)

TONTA!! I was probably hearing my own stinkin' blood pounding in my ears. (bring a smile to your face?)
237 BPM. consistent


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, that's good although it seems a little fast to me. How does it match to some of your other birds?

Pidgey


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## AZfiddler_1996 (Jul 13, 2005)

Woe. 97 BPM on Oreo.


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## AZfiddler_1996 (Jul 13, 2005)

I waited, though, until she got used to being in my hand with the stethoscope on her so I could try to get something more normal. Maybe I should try that with Thunder Pidgey?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Yeah, better confirm that on Thunder. It could be that the heartbeat is so fast because the blood volume's down or it could be that there's a problem brewing. Or it's just too fast to easily count but given your ear with the music, I'm not betting that direction.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I'm betting that getting a blood transfusion is out of the question (that'd need a good vet and a donor pidgey). I am afraid that there might be some internal bleeding still. Let's hope that if there is, it's slowing down.

I'm not going to be on here much longer as the plane will be leaving soon and we'll have to head down to the gate.

Pidgey


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## AZfiddler_1996 (Jul 13, 2005)

208 and that's that. It wouldn't slow down anymore.


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## AZfiddler_1996 (Jul 13, 2005)

Pidgey said:


> I'm betting that getting a blood transfusion is out of the question (that'd need a good vet and a donor pidgey). I am afraid that there might be some internal bleeding still. Let's hope that if there is, it's slowing down.
> 
> I'm not going to be on here much longer as the plane will be leaving soon and we'll have to head down to the gate.
> 
> Pidgey


 She just pooped again and it's very inky and black. 
So what exactely am I doing with her? 
I hope you have tons of fun!


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, that's reasonable, if elevated (208).

The inky black poop at least demonstrates that the bowels are moving, anyhow. Try this--feed one of the other birds and see if you can hear the grinding noise of the gizzard. Since you fed Thunder some seeds, maybe they're getting processed. You might possibly put some formula down her but I think I'd still wait awhile.

Take that inky black poop sample, dilute it with water and mix it up a lot in some clear cup and then watch it settle. Then, pour it through a paper towel and see if there are any solids in it.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Incidentally, black blood in the stool means that it comes from higher up in the GI, which is expected in this case anyhow. I'm afraid it's going to have to be a wait-and-see deal here, though. She'll either make it or not mostly on her own and all you can do is make sure that she gets fluids (but don't give her much at a time for fear of aspiration) and stays warm and quiet. Low light is good.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

It's time for me to get going now, so I'll try to check in tomorrow. Good luck, Licha and Thunder!

Pidgey


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## AZfiddler_1996 (Jul 13, 2005)

OK, I'll go do that. I have another ? if you can... 
In the pictures in the 1st post there is a black circle thing that protrudes from the skin. What is that? I noticed it when I was suturing her. In one of the pics my finger is covering 1/2 of it but I'll have to go see which picture...


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## AZfiddler_1996 (Jul 13, 2005)

Pidgey said:


> It's time for me to get going now, so I'll try to check in tomorrow. Good luck, Licha and Thunder!
> 
> Pidgey


 Thanks, Pidgey! I wonder what type of Pidgey you'll be when you come on again...


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## AZfiddler_1996 (Jul 13, 2005)

TP1 has my finger 1/2 way over it and TP2 shows it without my finger.


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## AZfiddler_1996 (Jul 13, 2005)

I didn't think that she would make it through the night last night. All I could do was show her love and after a little more than an hour she perked up enough for me to sleep. She is doing better today, standing on her own 2 feet.
Here is a picture of her poop last night (it's the same today except smaller). It is actually a really dark, dark, green instead of black. I attempted to clean it up with a napkin (didn't have much success!) and I'll post a picture of that too. icko! 
I'm going to get an otoscope on the way to school today if they have it at Wal-mart. Everyone that I have asked said they're sure that they do, so here's hopin'!
Pidgey, thank you so, so much. This is way above the "call of duty." I appreciate so much you always being there with your help. 

Alice


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## AZfiddler_1996 (Jul 13, 2005)

Before I left for school this morning I put Thunder Pidgey on a towel that I had fixed for her so she'd be comfortable. When I got back she was standing on the floor.
Wal-mart didn't have an otoscope but I have a friend who lives here and works at the Walgreen's that's 50 miles away. I called her and she is going to buy me one. I'm going to go take her the money and pick it up at her house around 5pm today.

Alice


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## AZfiddler_1996 (Jul 13, 2005)

I just picked it up, it's the same one that the link that you gave me showed.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

It's actually not too bad of a scope because it's pretty short. The funny thing was turning it on--you had to warp the body or something like that. There isn't a switch per se. Anyhow, you know you're really getting serious into rehabbing when you have to pull one of these out ever so often. That's not a good thing.

Anyhow, since it's looking like Thunder's going to pull through, let's get to looking at your leaking hole and see how it's doing.

Pidgey

(survived the first day of diving, by the way)


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## AZfiddler_1996 (Jul 13, 2005)

Pidgey said:


> It's actually not too bad of a scope because it's pretty short. The funny thing was turning it on--you had to warp the body or something like that. There isn't a switch per se. Anyhow, you know you're really getting serious into rehabbing when you have to *pull one of these out *ever so often. That's not a good thing.
> 
> Anyhow, since it's looking like Thunder's going to pull through, let's get to looking at your leaking hole and see how it's doing.
> 
> ...


 Pull one of what out? ..... uh.. _I'm_ not doing it, right? 
I'll have to try to check it all out tonight because we have church in Mex today. 
Anything special I should know??

Alice
(be careful of the haw- sharks)


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

When you have to use an otoscope to work on a bird. You'll just have to watch that wound and see what it does over the next couple of days. If it gets discolored underneath, it's going to have to be opened up and fixed.

Pidgey


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## AZfiddler_1996 (Jul 13, 2005)

?? I was going to open it up and look right now.. and fix it if I had to. I'm supposed to wait??


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## AZfiddler_1996 (Jul 13, 2005)

Well, I guess, if it's reasonable, I would rather do it now... before it gets worse and/or she's not so patient.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, the way to do it would be to open up your outer hole and then give the bird a drink to see if it leaks. If it doesn't, then don't mess with it. If it does, then you'd go looking for where. Good luck.

Pidgey


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## AZfiddler_1996 (Jul 13, 2005)

Thanks, I'll do that. I guess if it doesn't leak then I suture the outer hole again?


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## AZfiddler_1996 (Jul 13, 2005)

Well, I took the sutures out but it is already sealed up. Should I open it up anyway? If so, what is the best way to do it? 
That whole area is a very ugly color. I got a picture but it's not very good. I'm going to try to get a better one later. 
There is a hard something to the left (bad side) of her sternum that protrudes under the skin? I'll post a pic of that too. 
On the good side- she just ate a seed! :*)

Licha


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## AZfiddler_1996 (Jul 13, 2005)

Also, today she wanted to scratch under her right wing but couldn't because she could not turn her head.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, I suppose that's understandable. Right now, it's going to be a "keep up with the meds" deal and it's going to be awhile before these bad spots are taken care of. Looks like some tissue will necrose and maybe you'll have to use surgical instruments and dig it out eventually, we'll just have to see. In the meantime, let's just let her work on healing and getting her appetite back. This one came pretty doggone close.

Pidgey


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## AZfiddler_1996 (Jul 13, 2005)

She's eating!


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Licha, 


Glad to read all goes well with this...!

More or less fasting for a few days, would be fine I think for something like this...with plenty of electrolytes/hydration not only against blood loss but to keep his Kidneys flushed...

Small punctures I usually use a drying topical antibiotic - Nitrofurizone being my favorite...

Anything larger, I tend to use Neosporin for the scab(s) to stay 'soft'...


As Pidgey mentions, the almost black poops/stools suggest Blood form the Crop going through and being more or less semi-digested, so seeing these is good in that it lets us know their digestive system/bowells are working...

When punctures happen to the Crop so that there is apearent leakage, it can be worthwhile to check the outside lower area of the Crop, after all cleaning and suturing...over the next several days, checking the low front area to see if fluids may be leaking from a puncture which had also perforated the back side of the Crop, where fluids may be leaking out and collecting down low...

You have them on the Amoxycillin is it? ( sorry, I just read all from the beginning but my mind is fatigued...) - so, that is good.

Prolly no harm if to have them on the ACV-Water also, just for good measure.

If they are getting their appetite back now, and wanting to peck a little, I see no harm to let them do so in moderation.

There is no reason here to suppose injury/infection compromiseing their digestive system, so, their regular favorite Seeds would be fine and will cheer them up also to have...

You are provideing definite warmth, so, that is good...

Sounds like you are doing a great job with this, and aside from a little gentle cuddle or hand nest or propping them up with a rumpled cloth to aid their standing up to peck and drink and poop and so on...I can not think of anything else to mention.

Lucky Pigeon they got away so well from whatever it was and made it home..!

How are the poops now?


Best wishes you two!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## AZfiddler_1996 (Jul 13, 2005)

Hi, Phil,
Yes, she is on Amoxicillin. I was still giving her electrolytes but was wondering if I should quit. I haven't been giving her ACV. The poops are better than the last pictures that I posted (  ). I will take a picture of one when my batteries charge...


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Licha, 


I mis-spoke, sorry...I meant to say, on small punctures which do not require suturing, I have been satisfied with flushing them out well with saline or dilute peroxide dependong on location...and then useing a topival antibiotic such as Nitrofurizone powder.

While on larger punctures, after flushing and suturing, I have tended to use the Neosporin for them and or their scabs to stay soft and supple.

Does the bottm area of their Crop seem normal? No saggy-fullness below the bottom?

Best wishes...!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## AZfiddler_1996 (Jul 13, 2005)

I'm sorry I didn't get back to you sooner, Phil. Her crop seems fine, no "saggy-fullness" below the bottom. She's eating like a pigeon now and also exploring my room. Her right wing (bad side) droops and she can't lift it up to stretch, ect. but she is improving well. 

Alice


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## AZfiddler_1996 (Jul 13, 2005)

Well, Thunder Pidgey is doing a lot better. The wounds are healing well and she can also fly again. 
I think that when I sutured the cut near her eye I must have pulled the skin from her eye too much. I never thought of it and wasn't careful about that which I'm very sorry about now. Her eyelid is pulled down and back on her left eye. Will it hurt anything?

Alice


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, if you'd do some matching cosmetic surgery on the other side, you might be able to pass her off as Oriental.

Seriously, how much? Can you take a picture?

Pidgey


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## AZfiddler_1996 (Jul 13, 2005)

Well, she's got white that encircles her whole eyeball but above the eye the white isn't there anymore, it's pulled down. The strange thing is is that when I first noticed it I picked her up to look at it and it didn't appear that way. It appeared normal. Every time that I pick her up it appears normal, does it move? 
I will take a picture later because I lost my other rechargable battery and regular batteries don't run my camera. I'll have to go get more batteries at Wal-mart today if I don't find it. 

Alice


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## AZfiddler_1996 (Jul 13, 2005)

Sometimes it looks worse than others (usually it looks worse when she's totally relaxed, when she's not worried that I'm fixing to put her in her cage or whatever). When I just took the picture it didn't seem pulled back as much and didn't look tight like it might be hurting her.

Licha


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, the only thing that matters is whether or not the eyelid starts sagging over the actual pupil. If it's only that the white periorbital skin seems narrower and then thicker, I wouldn't worry. I seriously doubt that she feels any kind of discomfort. Skin will remodel itself in time if there's an artificial tight spot.

Pidgey


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## AZfiddler_1996 (Jul 13, 2005)

Pidgey said:


> Well, the only thing that matters is whether or not the eyelid starts sagging over the actual pupil. If it's only that the white periorbital skin seems narrower and then thicker, I wouldn't worry. I seriously doubt that she feels any kind of discomfort. Skin will remodel itself in time if there's an artificial tight spot.
> 
> Pidgey


 It's not sagging over the iris or the pupil. I guess I'll just have to keep an eye on it. I guess it shouldn't hurt, Popeye's got the cute little star eyes and they don't seem to bother him. BTW, am I still in for doing cosmetic surgury on Popeye? It has cooled down a lot here and if I'm supposed to do it I'd like to get it done soon. I'd have to wait until after next week because we don't have school then, but I would like to get it done before December whenever-it-is. 

Licha


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, I guess I need to think that one over. You don't actually have to at this point. We were trying to make him look more presentable for the journey to the U.S. back then...

Pidgey


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## AZfiddler_1996 (Jul 13, 2005)

Thunder Pidgey has _finally_ gone through her molt.  Now, you could never tell by looking at her that she had to go through all of this! 
Someday soon I'm going to convince myself to buy more batteries for my camera and take a picture of her to post. 

Alice


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