# Baby beak injury = head shaking?



## cynthia ark (Jun 21, 2003)

Hi, again! On closer examination, I see a small injury with a little dried blood on one side of the baby's lower beak. Could this cause the head shaking? Is there anything I should do for injury? It seems very small. Or do you think the head shaking is from respiratory distress or something? I really hope not. I take care of many other animals and am grieving the recent death of my beloved soul-mate and I am VERY stressed about this little bird. I have many other birds, also. Any advice would be appreciated.
Thank you,
 cynthia


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Cynthia,

Thank you for caring about this little bird. Can you let us know where you are? If you can't consult a vet we might be able to link you up to someone that can have a look at it because there are a number of things that could affect its nervous system.

In the meantime tender loving care and treatment for possible shock and dehydration would be best whatever the cause of its symptoms: Put it in a warm quiet place, make water available and dip its beak into the water regularly to make certain that it knows where the water is and that it is drinking.

A little food can be offered once it has settled and has had a chance to rehydrate.

Please let us know of any changes.

Cynthia


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## cynthia ark (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by cyro51:
> *Hi Cynthia,
> 
> Thank you for caring about this little bird. Can you let us know where you are? If you can't consult a vet we might be able to link you up to someone that can have a look at it because there are a number of things that could affect its nervous system.
> ...


Hi, Cynthia!

Thank you so much for your reply. (hope I'm responding to it correctly = I haven't really figured out this site yet!} 
I am located in San Bernardino, CA. It would be great if you knew of someone in this area! I'm worried about him and it would be great if someone who knew what they were doing could take a look at him. 
I really want to help the little guy. Unfortunately, I don't have the money to take him to a bird vet. I hope I haven't hurt him somehow - I always worry about aspiration, but he hasn't appeared to choke and I'm feeding him soaked monkey-chow (solid food) Is head shaking a sign of pnemonia? I hope not. Do you think I should put him on some kind of antibiotic?
Thank you so much for your kind response and patience with all my questions. 
Thank you,
cynthia


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Cynthia,

I have posted a message on another forum to see if there is anyone near you that can help.

I am not certain about antibiotics at this stage.

Please keep him separate from your other birds and maintain strict hygiene.

What makes you think it could be pneumonia?

Not sure what monkey chow has in it. fred recommends puppy chow, seeds and grit are ideal.

Cynthia


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

Hello,

Another thing I'd like to add is when you feed the baby be sure to avoid the hole behind the tongue (That is the windpipe and anything that goes in there can make the bird aspirate) I've seen afew birds who did aspirate on their food and they started shaking their heads.

Mary


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Good morning Cynthia & Welcome to Pigeons.com
Thank you so much for helping this little pij.

If I might make a suggestion. Could we move to just one thread? By having two going on the same subject, we may find ourselves repeating each other. thanks.

Cynthia (from CA), If this has not been suggested, you might want to take a look at Baby Sara's pictures (on the home page). This may help determine the age of your little patient.

Have you noticed any other unusual movements from the pij? e.g. walking in circles, walking backwards. 

How does he appear to be doing this morning? 


Terry may have a suggestion of someone in your area that can physically assist. I'm sure she will be on shortly.

Please keep us posted on how things are going.
Cindy


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Cynthia,

I don't know of anyone in your area that could take the little bird as they are all quarantined for Exotic Newcastle Disease.

If you are able to get the little bird to me in Lake Forest (South Orange County), I will be happy to try to care for it and finish raising it.

Please post back here or e-mail me at [email protected] to let me know. 

Terry Whatley


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## cynthia ark (Jun 21, 2003)

Thank you Terry, DD, Cyro, Mary and White Feather! {hope I didn't forget anyone}

Well, this morning the head shaking is greatly reduced, so far! Almost entirely stopped! Thank God! Today I've only seen her (or him) shake its head when it first notices me looking at it. I haven't noticed any other strange movements. He mostly perches on side of his nest. I live in very small quarters with many animals, so can be noisy. I tried to reduce stress level...covered front of cage, turned off t.v., lights off (now I'm living in the dark...haha) etc. Maybe this helped. Do you think it could be stress related? 
To answer your question, I was only concerned that it might be pneumonia because I'm terrified of baby birds aspirating, although he hasn't seemed to choke and I'm feeding solid food. He doesn't seem to be wheezing. About 20 years ago, I had a couple of horrible experiences with tiny non-pigeon-type birds {wren, sparrow, finch? don't know) where, in spite of trying as hard as I could to avoid it, they died in my hands from aspirating formula. Very traumatic. For many years, I wouldn't try rescuing baby birds. If I couldn't replace in nest, I called someone else. But in the past 7 years, baby pigeons keep coming to me, and I have tried to help them out of necessity. This is my tenth baby pigeon rescue I have attempted to feed myself. None have aspirated, but it still scares me. I really hope this one hasn't either. If he had, would the head shaking have gotten better? 
I currently have 6 other pigeons {all weaned}, 2 parrots, and a baby starling who seems to be doing fine. All rescues. I particularly love pigeons. This baby is in a separate cage, of course, and I wash between birds, but I'm afraid he has to be in the same room with some due to lack of space.
I think you may be on to something with the type of pigeon he is. His beak is colored different than the others, too. Yellow-brownish with black spot on tip, and his feet and legs are yellow, instead of black or pink. Glad to hear there is a type like that - was worrying that maybe he was jaundiced or something!







Wish I knew how to see the pics of your baby that you sent me. 
Still can't get him to drink or eat on his own, but keep trying, and he is eating fine from me. From Sara's pics, I think he may be about 3 weeks. I don't know what is in Zoo Preen monkey-chow, either, but it is what other rehabers have recommended to me before for pigeon babies, instead of puppy chow, so I have used it for years, with success. It comes in blocs, which I soak in water & heat to about 100 degrees, break apart, & feed. He is eating about 3/4 bloc or more at each feeding. Do you think I should go back to dog food? I feed my baby starling puppy-chow based formula.
Sorry about the two threads...I'm really new at this. Don't know how to fix... Also, sorry about e-mails when I now realize I should probably have posted -I'm trying to figure this all out. If there is anyone in my area = San Bernardino in Southern CA - who might take a look-see, I would really appreciate it. Terry, are you close to me?
Thank you all for all your kind responses, and thanks in advance for future questios I will probably have...baby birds make me nervous! 
Blessings to you and your pigis!
cynthia


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Cynthia,

If the monkey chow comes recommended and has worked, keep with it! It is good to hear of another solid product that can be fed to young pigeons. I think that we are all terrified of causing death by aspiration so you are in good company here!

It sounds as if this one has fallen into capable hands.

Cynthia



------------------
_All beings are fond of themselves, they like pleasure, they hate pain, they shun destruction, they like life and want to live long. To all, life is dear; hence their life should be protected.

-Mahavira_


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Hi Cynthia,
Sounds like you are doing a good job. 
Glad to hear the little one's head shaking has subsided. 

Don't worry about the two threads. Looks like we are using this one & that's great. The main thing is that we don't miss an important post.

Pigeons in need do seem to know who to go to. If for no other reason, just to be in the presence of someone who really cares about them. 

Please keep us posted on how things are going.
Cindy


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## cynthia ark (Jun 21, 2003)

Thank you all for your kind concern! Baby (I think I'll call her Maggie-found her on Magnolia Blvd.) is doing pretty good today. She is preening and walking about more and pecking at bits of food, although she isn't coordinated enough to actually eat any on her own yet...just holds them in the end of her beak for a second while she tries to figure out how to get it back to her throat. Pretty normal baby bird stuff. She's affectionate and loves to cuddle with me! She's really sweet!
She's shaking her head a little more than yesterday, but not nearly as bad as Sat. It worries me, though. Wish I knew she was going to be ok. Poop normal, not too dry anymore, & plentiful. I keep trying to figure the head shaking out, so I was examining her closely again. I felt a tiny bit of crustiness around her ears. I thought maybe a little food had dried on her that I hadn't noticed (I always clean her off a little after feeding) but when I removed a tiny bit of it, I realized it was scab. Don't know what that means...ear infection? parasites? do they get ear mites? Can't see any mites, etc. on her anywhere. Haven't seen her scratching at ears, or overly preening, etc. But it might explain head shaking...hmmm.....both ears. Any ideas? I put a little neosporin ointment on them.
Cindy, when you said you knew of some babies that aspirated and then shook their heads, how long did that go on before they died, did they seem ok otherwise, and was it constant or worsening or just sporadic as she is doing now? I really hope I haven't hurt her. (I know I'm paranoid about it, but I haven't seen this before. Years ago, with the two babies that I had aspirate, one died immediately & the other a few hours after aspiration. These were years apart, not related.)
I fetched this poor baby out of the middle of a very busy 4 lane street at rush hour. There were cars speeding right over the top of her, big tires inches from her fragile little body. I think it was a miracle that she didn't get squashed! It was enough to make anyone twitch their head! I almost twitch just thinking about it! lol!
She (or he) doesn't drink yet. She thinks I'm trying to drown her when I try to show her how!
Please, any ideas about the ears, or head shaking would be much appreciated. I just keep worrying that maybe I've missed something or maybe she needs antibiotics or something. Don't want to lose her. I'd be heartbroken!
Thank you for the kind offer, Terry! I am still trying to raise her, at this point. Wish we were closer. I'd run her by to get your opinion. If I get desperate, I still might, if that's ok?
Thank you for all your help and concern. If you know of any ear thing like that, or any other ideas, please let me know. Have a great day!


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## cynthia ark (Jun 21, 2003)

Sorry Mary and Cindy - just realized it was Mary who mentioned about aspiration. I keep thinking she'd seem worse if it was that, but I'm not sure. 
Also, does anyone know if vets in Southern California -I'm in Inland Empire - are reporting rescued or sick pigeons? I feel sure she doesn't have Newcastle's, but I'm concerned that I might be reported if I found a way to take her to the vet? I haven't got the money, anyway, but just thinking? So many people's healthy pets have been killed, just because they were poultry or pigeons. The authorities come right to their door, force entry, and kill their pets right there...many people have been very upset about this here...people trying to hide their pets...it scares me. (thought maybe people in other areas don't know what's been going on here.)
Thanks...


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Cynthia,

I think that I have heard of pigeons getting ear infections but can't find anything to back it up! I remember it because I have a pigeon with a balance problem and I wondered whether I should have treated her with antibiotics just in case it was caused by an ear infection.

My logic in this is that pigeons have ears, ears are delicate, animals shake their heads when they have any ear discomfort therefore there is a distinct possibility that the head shaking is related to an ear injury or infection. 

I really don't think you should worry about aspiration. I think that if you are syringing liquids into a pigeons mouth there is a real danger but even then you would be aware that it could have happened because the pigeon would splutter or choke. You would have to be very unlucky for a pigeon to aspirate liquid from wet solids.

We have read about END raids with absolute horror and feel very deeply for all the pet bird owners out there! I just hope that the danger of END passes soon.

Cynthia




[This message has been edited by cyro51 (edited June 23, 2003).]


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Cynthia,

I found referals to infection of the middle ear caused by parasite migration in this site: http://www.pigeonbid.com/askdr.weir.html 
so it is obviously a possibility to be considered but not diagnosable (?).

I am inclined to think that the head shaking is injury related but maybe a free online vet could help? 

Cynthia


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hello yet again!

Silly me I should have done a search for ear mites and pigeons in the first place! Try this link: ear mites in doves and the simple treatment.
http://www.rupert-fish.co.uk/interests/dove_breeding/dove_info.html 

Cynthia


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## cynthia ark (Jun 21, 2003)

Dear Cynthia,
Thank you soooo much for all the information! The sites you recommended are wonderful! 
I didn't have any vaseline on hand, so I smeared more neosporin on the areas for now, figuring it was oily, too, until I can get to the store. Now we'll wait and see...
Thank you so much. Your logic about the mites sounds right to me. I REALLY hope that's what it is. Seems like it would be fairly easy to cure. 
Thank you for doing all the research and replying so fast. I really appreciate it! And so does Maggie!
We'll let you know how it's going.


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## ddpowell (May 16, 2003)

The mites can be a terrible thing and can cause these symptoms. Sometimes they can cause permanent damage but hopefully you caught this in time. 

I will never forget the two babies I found covered in fire ants. They were coming out of the ears and everything and they died soon afterwards. It was very sad. 

I am optimistic that this baby will be fine once these mites are treated. keep us posted!


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## cynthia ark (Jun 21, 2003)

Maggie flew for the first time yesterday! I was really surprised that this chubby little piji with no feathers under her wings and not much of a tail could fly! She had been sitting quietly on my lap and I set her down on the sofa for a minute (to clean off the bird poop)and after exploring a bit, she took off and flew across the living room like she had been doing it for years! Perfect landing! Not clumsey at all! Then she just waited quietly for mom to come and get her. She's a much bettter flier for her age than any of my others have been. I wonder if it the breed, or just this individual? Flew a bit today. Previously, she had done the flapping/lifting 1 -2 inches straight up in the air thing just twice. I'm really a proud mama!
Head shaking seems a bit better. I'm still treating possible ear mites with neosporin. It obviously hasn't affected her balance, whatever it is. But now I think I've watched her so much, that I get paranoid every time she stretches her neck or does anything...lol... She does indeed act a bit different than my other babies have - I'm attributing it to the breed. She seems happy and (I hope) well. She really seems to enjoy my company more than the others do. Likes to just sit on my lap or shoulder, and doesn't really want to go back to her house. 
Thank you all again. The ant incident sounds terrible, Donna! How sad! Hope any possible mites are history. I'll keep you posted.
cynthia


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## ddpowell (May 16, 2003)

It sounds like this is one lucky and spoiled pigeon! Great work. It is very easy to get attached to these little guys. Keep us posted on his progress!


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## cynthia ark (Jun 21, 2003)

Hi, Everyone!
Maggie seems to be doing fine. Yesterday I took her to Magnolia Bird Farm in Riverside {they are always sooo nice there!} so the experts could have a look at her and her head-shaking thing. Well, he thought she looked just great! Said she was nice and chubby and that he would shake his head a little too if he had been run over in the street! Didn't think she has ear mites...ears clean, no discharge...but he treated her with Invectrimin (sp?) just in case. They thought she was really pretty and were impressed with her flying ability. He asked me "Do you know she isn't an ordinary pigeon?" and, thanks to you Terry, I could sound like a pro! Band Tail! Yes, you were right, and you didn't even see her. Pretty Good! They thought she was fine and cute. I still see an occassional head shake, but I'm not worrying as much.
Hope its ok if I put in a plug for the folks at Magnolia Bird Farm. I've taken birds there for years for nail/beak trimming, advice, etc. and they are always so nice and do it for free. I also buy supplies/feed from them and they are very reasonable. I have moved several towns away, so it a drive, but worth it. Just a tip to anyone in California's Inland Empire. I think they have a store in Orange County, too.
DD - weird that you should mention the ant incident. Right after that I had a similar emergency with my much loved opposum last night, but after being up all night and a trip to the animal emergency hosp., I think she's going to make it, I pray!
Thanks so much to all of you for your expert advice and reassurance with Maggie - I'm a worry-wort! So glad I found this site!
Blessings, cynthia


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Cynthia,

I am so glad that things are looking good for Maggie and hope the same for your little opossum.

I am also glad that you found us. You have made some really welcome contributions and added to our knowledge. Hope you will stick around.

Cynthia


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## cynthia ark (Jun 21, 2003)

Hi, everyone! Just wanted to let you know that Maggie Rose stopped shaking her head!!! I haven't seen a head-shake in several days! She's doing great! She's acting even sweeter now that she feels better. She's really a love. Wants to cuddle all the time. And she has basically weaned herself. She gobbles up her soked Zupreem out of my open hand! Or a dish, but she likes the attention!
Opposum slowly improving, too! So we're all doing pretty good. Even Mulberry the starling is learning to feed himself! 
Thanks again for all the support and good info!
Cooo-ooo Wakka Wakka to everyone!
Cynthia and gang


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## ddpowell (May 16, 2003)

Did I see Starling??? I have two pet Starlings that have a large vocabulary. They are my favorite birds...well, I love pigeons a lot too..so pretty close there, but anyway, I raised three babies andhave two of them as pets. You probably already have, but go to this site for help with the Starling. Is he a baby you are raising? Plan on keeping him? They are very comical and smart birds.

http://forums.channelcanada.com/index.php 

Glad to know Piji is doing great! And keep us posted on the oppossum. My friend just rehabbed several..she said they were the greatest.
Donna

[This message has been edited by ddpowell (edited July 05, 2003).]


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

Thanks for the update Cynthia, Glad to hear that Maggie Rose is doing great!

And thanks Donna for the wonderful Starling forums..

Mary


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## cynthia ark (Jun 21, 2003)

Thanks Donna for the wonderful starling forums! I am a member of Sterling-Talk, but the rest was news to me. Mulberry is my first/only starling. I found him when he was tiny and now he's weaned and quite a handful! They certainly are opionionated little birds! But I love him anyway! Opposums are LOVES! Lots of teeth to let you know when they are really mad, but usually put up with a lot, first. I love um.
Hope everyone is fine. Been so busy, not too much time to chat, but think of all of you often. Thanks so much again and thanks from Maggie Rose! You helped keep her mom sane during the head-shaking weeks!

Blessings All, cynthia ark


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