# Sick pigeon, possible PMV



## glaukus (Mar 12, 2010)

Hi

About a month ago a couple of pigeons decided to make my balcony their home. I didn't interfere with feeding or anything since felt they would be capable to take care of themselves.... Few days ago noticed that one of them was missing. Last night I heard noises from a cardboard box I had in the balcony and found the missing one inside. Initially I thought it was hurt but later noticed the "twisted neck".
Fast forwarding a bit..... I currently have her in a spacious cage inside the apartment, with wild bird seeds, water, and some sand for digestion. When in distress her neck goes crazy and she can loose balance, however this occurs rarely. Right now she is well fed and hydrated. She seems to have gotten used to us around already since she doesn't mind when we reach inside to add food. I also noticed that she started grooming/cleaning herself tonight....

Now a few questions. I have read the posts in here about PMV, and I feel that this pigeon manifests the symptoms of the neck in particular. The neck is a bit twisted, but barely noticeable. When in distress though it's a different story. I have only seen her in major distress yesterday when I first found her and when I moved her from the box to the cage today. I am not sure about the droppings or other symptoms since I am inexperienced. Should I be doing anything else at this point when it comes to the sickness?

Should I be concern of overfeeding since she has an appetite?
Should I keep her inside or the balcony? I don't want to "break" the relationship, but I am worried about the virus spreading. I was thinking to keep her outside during the day and inside at night.

I really hope she recovers. I am convinced it's a female since this is the smaller of the couple. 

I will have more questions later as she recovers in regards to the gradual release, but not needed right now.

Last but not least..... GREAT forum and information.


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## Pawbla (Jan 6, 2009)

I wouldn't take her out if she has PMV. It could be transmitted, and her mate is better off with another bird than dead o sick. However, I think PMV survivors are non-releasable. THINK, I said, because if I remember correctly they show symptoms when in distress, thus it would make sense that, while still sick, PMV patients show heavier symptoms when in distress.
Past sentence two of the last paragraph it's just a couple of things I may remember or not correctly and a theory, so don't pay much attention to that unless nobody else visits the thread .


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

The symptoms you have described can be the result of bacteria, fungus,virus or toxins to name a few.
Can you tell us where you are located in case we have some resource for you?


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## glaukus (Mar 12, 2010)

I am located in Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
I am reading here about Clavamox. Not sure where to get it or even if I should use it.
Would amoxicillin be a suggested route?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

glaukus said:


> I am located in Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
> I am reading here about Clavamox. Not sure where to get it or even if I should use it.
> Would amoxicillin be a suggested route?


Yes amoxicillin would work but first we need to know if the bird has a bacterial infection and then the bird would need to be weighted, in grams...a kitchen scale will do...to determine the correct dosage.
I don't know what your financial comfort level might be and if you have the funds to take the bird to a vet. Not all vets will see pigeons nor are they qualified to treat them. If you do go the vet route, do say the bird is your pet or many won't treat the Pigeon.
I also have a list of vets and rehab facilities that will treat Pigeons. The most important thing to keep in mind where ever you take the bird is that you be mindful that often euthanasia will be recommended even when it isn't necessary. I think this bird can recover so I'm asking you to be her advocate and not let that happen if they try to talk you into it.
If it would help, certainly you are welcome to call me and ask questions. I'll send you my number through our private message system. 


Here is what I have for Ontario. 

Briarwood Animal Hospital
Dr. Randy Stirling
76 King East 
Stoney Creek, Canada L8G 1K2
905-664-4888

Southern region, Essex County (Amherstburg) 
519-736-8172
Nancy Phillips, President Wings Avian Rehabilitation Centre 
Wildlife Species: accept all wildlife 
Specialties: raptors, water birds and passerines 
Comments: Wildlife accepted from Southwestern Ontario, Canada - 
Windsor and Essex County area. 

Windrush Veterinary Services
26 Sixth Concession Road
Brantford, Ontario N3T5L7
519-449-5080
This clinic treats all wildlife including feral pigeons. They do have a wildlife fund althought I and uncertain what, or if they charge to treat wildlife.
For pet pigeons, the exam costs $50.00. A fecal exam is $20.00. If they do a fecal exam without seeing the bird, they will tell you what is found but will be unable to perscribe medication.


Southern region, Toronto 
416-631-0662 
Nathalie Karvonen (Executive Director), Toronto Wildlife Centre 
Wildlife Species: Over 200 species have been treated at TWC 
Specialties/Knowledge: 
Toronto Wildlife Centre's Wildlife Hotline (416-631-0662) handles approximately 30,000 
calls per year from members of the public with various concerns about wildlife. 
Comments: 
Toronto Wildlife Centre is a registered charity, 
and is one of the largest wildlife rehabilitation centres
in Canada with veterinarians on staff.

WILD BIRD CARE CENTRE
P.x 11159
Nepean,On K2H 7T9
613-828-8249


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Please do bring her inside and keep her warm. 

Offer her a towel on the bottom of the cage for traction.

Pigeon like flat surfaces to perch on and so if you happen to have a brick around, she may like that in the bottom of the cage.

I would give her as much food as she wants. To the wild bird seed mix you can add, dried peas, dried lentils, small popping corn, chopped raw peanuts. Perhaps you can find a Dove mix at a pet store. You can also offer green leaf lettuce and pieces of whole grain bread and a little brown rice, uncooked. 

You can also offer her small amounts of defrosted corn and peas. If she doesn't eat them though, don't leave them in the cage so long as they spoil.

Pigeons eat a grit to grind down the seed rather than sand.


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## glaukus (Mar 12, 2010)

The "sand" box I got says Bidgie Gravel.
I am not sure what grit looks like but I will go back to the store tomorrow and ask them unless the "Bidgie Gravel" is good enough.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Grit is much bigger. I know they have grit for parrots but Pigeon grit is fortified with the vitamins and minerals Pigeons need. Probably at theis point, the grit isn't the most important thing though.


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## glaukus (Mar 12, 2010)

She seems to be doing much better. Eats and drinks normally. The neck twists a bit from time to time. She stretches her wings, cleans her feathers.
I let her mate see her today by opening the balcony door. They both seemed very existed with the male doing his mating singing and dancing and her responding back. I felt bad closing the door, but I hope as she gets better I will be able to put her out again.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

With no other symptoms but the 'twisting neck' it would be very difficult to determine a cause without consulting a vet. PMV and Salmonellosis (Paratyphoid) would be the 'usual suspects', but with little to go on other causes cannot be ignored. That the bird is, apart from the one obvious sign, evidently exhibiting normal pigeon behavior may in itself be significant. One thing you can readily check is whether the poops are noticeably smelly or not, another possible indicator.

John


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## glaukus (Mar 12, 2010)

Thanks to everyone for your advice.
I am not trying to avoid the vet but after a few calls they dont seem to want treat pigeons. I will make a few more calls. I didn't try asking them only for a fecal exam.

I have read many posts and other online material about PMV and Paratyphoid. The only other thing I have noticed is mostly "green" poop. However it doesn't look like diarrhea to me and I dont smell anything terrible. Then again I am not sure I know what I am suppose to smell. The poop has urine, white stuff (urine) and the solid portion. The solid portion has been mostly green but have seen darker droppings.
I am really hoping a vet will do a fecal exam in case this is a bacterial infection that will need antibiotic.
I will post again once I know more.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

When you call around asking for a vet that will treat your* pet *Pigeons...if they say they don't treat them, ask who does.
Is there not anyone on the list I gave you that you?


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## glaukus (Mar 12, 2010)

Charis, 

Unfortunately the list of vets you provided are far from my apartment. The closest is 1.5 - 2 hours drive. I have found online a list of other avian vets that are open on Sunday. I will find out tomorrow if they can assist me.
I found this video that comes the closest to what I have seen her do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVKjDyvO5P8

Here are some links to videos about pigeon diseases. Very informative.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tz-F1WxDGNs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFxoFvAFgRs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K86TNYq6Xpc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9IHAELBhlM


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Hi Glaukus,

Here is one more place, as Charis said make sure you say this bird is a pet.

http://www.animalhospitalhighpark.com/

Good luck,

Karyn


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

glaukus said:


> Charis,
> 
> Unfortunately the list of vets you provided are far from my apartment. The closest is 1.5 - 2 hours drive. I have found online a list of other avian vets that are open on Sunday. I will find out tomorrow if they can assist me.
> I found this video that comes the closest to what I have seen her do.
> ...


They are informative but do keep in mind that these symptoms really can be caused by a variety of things. The thing to keep in mind about Pigeons, is that they are ground feeders. Where they feed, rodents feed on the left overs and even the pigeon droppings. As the rodents feed, they leave their droppings which in turn the Pigeons may eat if they are eating at the same location such as being supported by a human that feeds in the same place. Eating the rodent droppings, can make a Pigeon very sick. I'm not saying that's the cause of the illness with your bird, but it is a possibility.


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## glaukus (Mar 12, 2010)

Hey guys
I haven't posted since I have been very busy. 
Here is an update/ I ended up skipping the vet since it was too expensive and not something I could afford. Either way the good news is that she is doing much better. Her partner had some "twisting" symptoms as well, but he seems to be fine after a few days. I have moved her back outside with her mate and they both love it.
I was away for 5 days so I left them with plenty of food and water. Just returned today to find an egg and a nest of some sort. I guess they got busy 
As much as I would love for them to raise little pigeons, being in a building might create problems with the neighbors. On top of that they really picked a bad spot to build the nest. Right in front of the door.

So I have two problems. Need to "make" fake eggs. And the most important I need to relocate the nest.
Any tips?


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