# Help my pigeon is throwing up!



## chipndales_boy (May 11, 2007)

I have been hand raising a brother/sister pair of pigeons. I have been feeding them sundiet baby bird formula since they were about 9 days old, they are now a little over three weeks old and the boy has been puking up his formula for the last couple days. I tried switching in small seeds and water with less formula, but he is still throwing it up. does anyone know what could be causing this and what I can do to fix the problem? I don't know how long he can continue like this. He does puff out his feathers more than his sister and seems a little less active, yet he still gets excited to eat when it's feeding time. He just can't keep anything down. Please help


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Usually in a case like that you hit 'em with a few things in a shotgun effect. Do you have any medications?

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Often, it's a problem with an obstruction although it takes a pretty bad obstruction to stop formula from going through. Therefore, what are the poops out the other end looking like at this point?

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Vomiting is frequently associated w/Capillaria, Trichomoniasis (that is to say, Canker) or a crop infection. In a youngster just a bit over 3 years you might 
tend to worry a bit more about a crop infection or canker, though all three are
possible. We're going into a weekend so you're looking at 4 days anyway before
getting meds in hand if you don't keep meds on hand.

Metronidazole would be a good choice if you are going to have to order/or have
meds shipped to you as you'd be covering 2 out of the three bases. Otherwise
if you don't keep meds for the birds on hand, it's seeing what if any meds for 
humans you have on hand and figuring out the dosing rate for that med.

fp


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## chipndales_boy (May 11, 2007)

*what type of human meds?*

I wouldn't know what type of human meds to try without possible side effects. Waiting all weekend could be too long with out food. His poops are almost pure water as I have been giving him extra water since that seems to be all that does not effect him, and right now I really don't want him to get dehidrated on top of his other problems. is there any over the counter human meds I could pick up at say wal mart that would help?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Prescription. Flagyl.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

What you're describing could be extremely serious and it'd be best if we figured out a way for you to get some serious meds el pronto.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

You might be stuck with these folks:

Crescent City Hay & Feed 
160 Elk Valley Rd
Crescent City, CA 95531
(707) 464-6444 

Parkway Feed 
1645 Parkway Dr
Crescent City, CA 95531
(707) 464-6873

All Creatures Animal Hospital & Bird Clinic 
1380 Northcrest Dr
Crescent City, CA 95531
(707) 464-7448 

Hopefully, one of them might have it (Metronidazole; Flagyl; FishZole) for poultry or fish tanks.

Pidgey


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

chipndales_boy said:


> I have been hand raising a brother/sister pair of pigeons. I have been feeding them sundiet baby bird formula since they were about 9 days old, they are now a little over three weeks old and the boy has been puking up his formula for the last couple days. I tried switching in small seeds and water with less formula, but he is still throwing it up. does anyone know what could be causing this and what I can do to fix the problem? I don't know how long he can continue like this. He does puff out his feathers more than his sister and seems a little less active, yet he still gets excited to eat when it's feeding time. He just can't keep anything down. Please help



Hi c, 



You could gently try feeling the lower Crop area for foreign objects, gently pinching it from the sides or various other angles, and feel it to be locating possible foreign objects or obstructions, and if you feel a foreign object of some kind, see if you can gently massage it 'up'...and make note of it.

This might allow him to then throw it up and out, and to be rid of it, if there is something there blocking his passageway.


It is possible even to massage it 'up' and 'out' if one is careful and patient.


If this is Canker, I would expect 'chaulky-yellow' Urates. or chaulky-yellow liquids attending them.


This might be extremely infesting Candida, which can easily happen from most people use of powdered formula...and which when bad enough, can clog them up so nothing but Water will pass.

Any Vet should be able to do a fast swab and test to say, but, I'd say it might be a VERY good idea to begin at once with his Water being the famous "ACV-Water", no matter what else...which for this can be Three Tablespoons of 'Braggs' brand, Raw, Apple Cider Vinegar to a Gallon of fresh cool Water, keep in a Plastic Gallon Jug ( not in Glass) and let this be his Drinking Water for the next ten days.


Let him fast for two days anyway, once starting the ACV-Water, and see how it goes...


Have a white towell for him to be on so you can see best what poops and urates will come.


Let us know how things are going?

Good luck..!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Try petshops in your area that carry acquarium/fish supplies. Look for a product called Fishzole. The active ingrediet is Metronidazole.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Doing Bragg's ACV is a good idea. As for chalky yellow urates, this may accompany Canker but this is not a given.

ACV, though will help keep the populations of unwanted organisms in check
until you are able to obtain meds. That would be Canker, Yeast and Bacterial in terms of
affected populations....

fp


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

While you're checking around for Metronidazole, you might also ask for Sulmet, which is a Sulfa drug that can be helpful for many things. It's pretty cheap and comes in a big bottle that can be mixed with their water. I don't think it'd help here but since you're launching into pigeons you're going to need something like it sooner or later.

Pidgey


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Take Him To A Vet.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Being the weekend, Maggie's right, I'd be on the phone to the vet's 
in the area to see if one would fit you in this morning. But now you 
know the advantages of having a little medicine supply on hand for
emergencies in the future.

fp


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Talked to chipndales boy on the phone (silly him--he posted his phone number!) about canker and various things. The vet isn't an option at the moment but he's got a fancier nearby that might have meds, hopefully. Otherwise, he's going to be calling around or going to the different places looking for the stuff. He told me that the little fellow was harder to feed because of what he felt was some kind of restriction to the nipple that he's using. He hadn't opened the little one's beak enough to peer in so he'll be going through that exercise now to look for canker.

The town that he lives in isn't that big and doesn't have a lot of the kinds of things that us city dwellers are used to. They do have a Wal-Mart and some feed stores. We'll just have to see what he can find and maybe mail him some stuff next week, a Flagyl pill or two for such an occasion.

Pidgey


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## chipndales_boy (May 11, 2007)

*I checked for a canker.*

I checked his throat for a canker and it looks fine. It's pink and has no obstructions. I know there is a possibility that the canker could be further down out of sight. I clean out the cage every other day and am on my way to clean it now. This will allow me to see if he is still throwing up his food. I will also be checking for meds later today. Thanks Pidgey for the phone call and pointing me in the right direction.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I thought you might like to read that one thread that I mentioned. I don't think they ever said that the problem was canker but Reti mentions a similar case that was:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=11163

But, it also illustrates how they can act like there's nothing wrong almost right up until the point that they die.

Pidgey


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi chipndales_boy, pidgey, fp, all...



I know illnesses or strains of illness can vary regionally...


But at least here, I have never seen a Pigeon throwing up from Canker, even when they had Canker, even when they had severe Canker, or no matter what kind of, or severity of, or duraiton of Canker they had.



While, I have seen them throw up from -

- Poison...Avicides...

- Having eaten bad, spoiled, tainted, mouldy, poisoned, fermented, mildewed Seeds...or been fed semi-spoiled formula.

- Candida or Yeast infections as arise from various causes, and powdered formula in the hands of neophyte caregivers being one of them, in what otherwise was or would have been a healty vital youngster.

- Foreign Objects in Crop, or complications arising from them.




I have seen Canker clog their Throats so thoroughly, they could not get anything at all through 'there', even Water...and so could not eat or drink even if they wanted to.


I have never seen any Canker which was not accompany'd by ( usually 'chaulky textured or flat ) pale 'yellow' urates or yellow liquids passing as urates.


Eveny instance of yellow urates or liquids, whether or not attended by observable 'lumps' or lesions in their Throat or whatever, responded to Anti-Canker meds, whether or not their illness was verifiable by other signs of manifestations, as being definitely Canker per-se.


So, at this point, I feel it would be worth a moment or two to review - 


What has this youngster been fed, and for how long has he been fed it?

What was the method of feeding?

How old is the youngster

How was the food prepared? how much at a time was prepared? Details...


What exactly DO the poops look like presently? ( are they 'greyish'? Are the well formed? Are they green? Anyway, bring me/us up to date on this? ) and what were they like yesterday, the day before, and so on...how have they changed, aside from presumably become more scant?


Does the Crop seem to have any "Air' or Gas in it?

Does the Bird seem to stand taller in some funny way or make odd head/neck/Crop movements?


Is his appetite good, fadeing, non-existant?

Is he interested in being fed, is he squeaking and nuzzleing and interested? Or listless and withdrawn?


How does he seem generally in his demeaner and stance and look?


Can you post some images?


Click the 'quote' Button and you can reply to each part by adding/typeing in [q-u-o-t-e] at the front part, and, [/-q-u-o-t-e] at the end part, and those then, minus the "-" marks, will make the 'quotes' of my questions, in the reply text.



Best wishes!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Phil, 

If you're referring to my earlier post, it's right from my avian medical books
in addition to ringing true from experience. It does strike me though that canker being what it is has the capacity to present in some fairly different 
ways. Most of the birds that I bring in have canker of greater or lesser
severity.

fp


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

feralpigeon said:


> Hi Phil,
> 
> If you're referring to my earlier post, it's right from my avian medical books
> in addition to ringing true from experience. It does strike me though that canker being what it is has the capacity to present in some fairly different
> ...



Hi fp,



And, you see no assoaiciaton between Canker, and, 'chaulky yellow' urates?

You do not see flat-yellow urates or liquids atenting poops?

I DO think this varys regionally, and or may not be as viable an association elsewhere, as it is here...


But if you or anyone else have seen for sure Canker with no 'yellow' urates, I would be very interested to know.


Best wishes!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Phil,
I to have had the experience of Pigeons with crop canker throw up.
Seems to always be in babies or birds under 3 months. About 10 years ago I had 8 of them with it all at the same time. Examination of the mouth showed no evidence of canker. One died and canker was found in the crop. The remainder were treated for canker and survived. Initially, all were all throwing up and the only thing they could tolerate was water. It was weird.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Charis said:


> Phil,
> I to have had the experience of Pigeons with crop canker throw up.
> Seems to always be in babies or birds under 3 months. About 10 years ago I had 8 of them with it all at the same time. Examination of the mouth showed no evidence of canker. One died and canker was found in the crop. The remainder were treated for canker and survived. Initially, all were all throwing up and the only thing they could tolerate was water. It was weird.




Hi Charis, 


And...what were their poops like?



Do you recall?


Best wishes..


Phil
Las Vegas


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

chipndales_boy said:


> I have been hand raising a brother/sister pair of pigeons. I have been feeding them sundiet baby bird formula since they were about 9 days old, they are now a little over three weeks old and the boy has been puking up his formula for the last couple days. I tried switching in small seeds and water with less formula, but he is still throwing it up. does anyone know what could be causing this and what I can do to fix the problem? I don't know how long he can continue like this. He does puff out his feathers more than his sister and seems a little less active, yet he still gets excited to eat when it's feeding time. He just can't keep anything down. Please help



Hi chipndales_boy, all...


Under these circumstances, where would the youngster acquire Canker? Or why would it be manifesting it now?


I would think Candida is far more likely, or at least with the information we do have, it should be considered as probable, if not more probable, than Canker.


Both Canker and Candida are easy to treat and safe for the Bird to be treated, whether the Bird has them for sure, or not.


So, if one can not tell or decide, I think it is entirely reasonable to treat for both.


If we had more information, which is pending...it may be easier to make some deteminations...


Too, to my ways of thinking, a "Three Week Old" Pigeon should have been long LONG since not only pecking on his own, but being fed meals of diminishing frequency, with mostly "Seeds" in his formula.


The incidence of Candida from 'formula' as it is usually prepared and given, makes for many ambiguously sick youngster Birds, and Candida is a frequent problem.


Best wishes,

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

pdpbison said:


> Hi fp,
> 
> And, you see no assoaiciaton between Canker, and, 'chaulky yellow' urates?
> 
> ...


* If you were comparing 'region' in relation to climate, then yes, fp's is quite different. You & I pretty much live in the same 'region' & definitely share the same type of climate.

** I have. 
The bird I just had with canker so severe he only lived for a very short time had a couple small 'semi' formed droppings that were dark green with a bit of 'white'. There was no indication of any 'yellow' urates.

On the flip side, I have had some with a less severe case of canker than this most recent one, that did produce 'yellow' urates. 

I would have to agree with fp (post #11), in that it's not a given one will spot 'yellow' urates in every canker pij.

Cindy


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

pdpbison said:


> Hi chipndales_boy, all...
> 
> 
> **Under these circumstances, where would the youngster acquire Canker? Or why would it be manifesting it now?*
> ...


*There is a Trichomonad population present in the majority of pigeons so that
when feeding their young they pass this population on to their children. Sometimes it acts as an innoculation for the squab, but sometimes this
isn't the case and the disease state sets in. Some folks think of canker
as a youngbird disease, it's probably more of an immune system issue for the young and a stress related illness in the older birds.

**Thrush/Candida tends not to cause vomiting in humans, just as an observation. It does cause a slow down in the crops ability to process food
in birds. One baby that I just took in has multiple problems. The entire inside of the mouth is covered w/what looks to be Thrush/Candida and there is 
no vomiting, but can only be fed in small amounts due to emaciation and
an inability to process food normally. Granted, this may not mean it's the only way that it exhibits.

I've also had Cindy's experience of having a severely stricken bird w/Canker
and having very green poops w/a little white. What strikes me about Canker
is that it is a protozoal parasite that is interested in employment opportunities
anywhere in the body that it can gain entry to. So how would we be guaranteed of any one given response from intestines, kidneys, etc., when the canker may be burrowing into a non-related area? Might that not change
the body's response as well?

fp


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi fp, Cindy too...


Good mentions, thank you...





feralpigeon said:


> *There is a Trichomonad population present in the majority of pigeons so that
> when feeding their young they pass this population on to their children. Sometimes it acts as an innoculation for the squab, but sometimes this
> isn't the case and the disease state sets in. Some folks think of canker
> as a youngbird disease, it's probably more of an immune system issue for the young and a stress related illness in the older birds.
> ...




Yes, but humans to not have a Crop, nor a Crop with definite ph conditions to effect illnesses in the Crop.

I have seen many Candida youngsters throw up...


While, I have no recollections of seeing any Canker youngsters throwing up...and I have certainly had hundreds of Canker youngsters.


So...such is the regionsl pecularitys of these complaints! Or part of them..!





> One baby that I just took in has multiple problems. The entire inside of the mouth is covered w/what looks to be Thrush/Candida and there is
> no vomiting, but can only be fed in small amounts due to emaciation and
> an inability to process food normally. Granted, this may not mean it's the only way that it exhibits.




Of course I have been very pleased with the efficacy of the ACV-Water for treating and alleviating Candida and other Yeast infections of their Crops and digestive systems...




> I've also had Cindy's experience of having a severely stricken bird w/Canker
> and having very green poops w/a little white.


This I have never seen...so you can understand my experience in this region, differs...even as the strains or manifesting syndromes must differ regionally for these organisms' mischiefs...






> What strikes me about Canker
> is that it is a protozoal parasite that is interested in employment opportunities
> anywhere in the body that it can gain entry to. So how would we be guaranteed of any one given response from intestines, kidneys, etc., when the canker may be burrowing into a non-related area? Might that not change
> the body's response as well?
> ...



The Kidneys in many cases anyway, would be expected to be processing many spent leucocytes from the Blood, thus making for 'yellow' urates...as their system is dealing with the infection. But, it makes sense that not all Canker infections would be having the necessary circulatory refreshments for the spent Leucocytes to be carried of...



It seems reasonable to accept, that Candida, and Canker both, can or will manifest in various ways which can have regional tendencys.


This DOES make sense. And too, unfortunately, it also makes things a little more complicated for us all.


Canker, when making some sort of abcess, or when it is closed off by the Body's defence systems, might not cause any 'yellow' urates here in the South West for that matter, and I have puzzled on this aspect at times.

But I know of no instances passing through here where I could say "Yes, here is an example..."


I feel that the slight chaos or confusions of our differing experiences, and hence differing conjectures of diagnosis, are very good things, or are in the long run, even if in the short run they may make for more complex weighing for the Bird in hand.


Please forgve me if I sometimes have seemed heavy handed or annoying.


We will conceed I hope, that a young Pigeon throwing up, can be throwing up from causes other then Canker, or from causes which are completely free of Canker...even though some of the members have had Canker-Pigeons who did throw up.


Anyway, 'here', if I see any hint of chaulky 'yellow' urates, I treat for Canker, and, always, these 'yellow' urates clear up...even if the Pigeon has other additional illnesses remaiing for them to get over.


Two times now I have seen some odd 'thing' which did not look at all like 'regular' Canker, and where there were no yellow-ish urates, and I do not know what this is.


Last time I saw it, was in a very sick Pigeon who took many weeks to get well, and was on several and various medicines, including anti-canker ones, and the 'thing' took a long time to go away...so I can not get a feel as to just what medicine DID clear up the mystery 'thing' in their Throat.


I have one now, who I just got yesterday, and I will take him/her to my ( his ) Vet tomorrow for some tests to see if we can figure out what it is.


Thanks so much!


Best wishes!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Rockie (Jan 18, 2005)

I see a lot of info here that I don't mean to interrupt, but...

While the illness is being diagnosed, would it be an idea to try metoclopramide? I believe this is a med which trys to help keep the pijies from throwing up. Of course I'm not sure if it would work not knowing what the cause of the throwing up is. I have used it when a pijie may have been on a med that made him throw up.

Anyway, just a thought. Good luck Chipndale boy.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Rockie said:


> I see a lot of info here that I don't mean to interrupt, but...
> 
> While the illness is being diagnosed, would it be an idea to try metoclopramide? I believe this is a med which trys to help keep the pijies from throwing up. Of course I'm not sure if it would work not knowing what the cause of the throwing up is. I have used it when a pijie may have been on a med that made him throw up.
> 
> Anyway, just a thought. Good luck Chipndale boy.



...if the Pigeon is throwing up from bad or spoiled food, bad formula practices, Candida, poison, mouldy seeds, food fermenting in his Crop, or the broader likes, he best continue throwing up, since whatever is in his Crop is better off NOT in it, as well as for whomever is the care giver to try and figure out what is going on.


If their Crop is blocked in it's lower duct, from infection of a foreign object, so much so that no food or formula wil get through, then they may as well throw up all they can of whatever is in there, pending a resolution of the problem.


Throwing up is not the problem...but whatever is causing it, is...


Anyway, without more info, it is opretty hard to get any further with this...


Hope it goes well...


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

pdpbison said:


> Under these circumstances, where would the youngster acquire Canker? Or why would it be manifesting it now?


Many of the canker babies that I have seen developed into a full blown case when they were about three weeks old. I don't think I've ever seen a week-old get it but they're still operating on their parents immune system. I wouldn't be surprised if it usually rears its ugly head when their immune systems are "coming online" and haven't learned how to moderate well yet.

As to chalky yellow urates, I equate yellow urates with liver involvement. When they're truly chalky, I usually think dehydration. It doesn't take much to dehydrate a bird where you are--it's not quite as bad here where the humidity is often above 80%. Feeding Kaytee causes a color shift in the urates, too--they're definitely not quite as white. I used to worry about that and finally gave up.

Pidgey


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Overall, aside from all these digressive and potentially confusing overlays...

If a Pigeon of whatevr age is "throwing up", I think it makes sense to investigate as much as possible what can be determined about the actual Bird, rather than to immediately pronounce a diagnosis with no information other THAN that of a report of 'throwing up'.

I hate to see someone run off and treat for "X" when it might not be "X" at all which IS the problem, and meanwhile, time is lost and attentions distracted, as for any further inquirys or details, or other treatments or investigations, which might be useful for saving the Bird.


I have seen Canker in 8 day old "peepers" for that matter...and it's manifestion is fairly predictable in instances of privation and chill.

Candida is fairly predictable in peepers or squeakers, usually after 4 or 5 days of a neophyte careing for them, oweing to many people's 'casual' manner of formula making and feeding.

I occasionally see Canker with these cared for by others then brought to me 'peepers' and 'squeakers'...also.



These are simple reliable 'trends'.

I feel like a 'broken record' sometimes!


Lol...

Phil
Las Vegas


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## KIPPY (Dec 18, 2003)

I have had an experience with throwing up with a few of my pijes. My first and most loved pij died, not sure why. The vet put my other three on a course of *Batryl* and *Nystatin*. I only could afford one on credit. The other two the vet gave me meds for.
The other guys in my aviary I gave *Appertex* 1 day and *Spartrix* for 5 days, I was worried and desperate. I would also like to add I did give them garlic so I think that helped before the spartrix.
If it's internal canker I would go for 5 days instead of 3. 
Kippy passed but Judah was diagnosed with an enlarged liver I still had Splash and Zeke throwing up. I think it was canker and at he time I had ferals comming in with canker to the point I had to call Cindy for cages.
Canker in ugly and you can't always see it.


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## chipndales_boy (May 11, 2007)

*I have the metronidazole, now what?*

I have the metronidazole. I bought it at wal mart. It is for fish and you ad one pill per ten gallons of water. I know you have to break it down accordingly for the bird but i do not know how to administer it properly. Do I mix it in his water and give him one dose, or is it several doses over days? is this all I should give him or should I try food soon after? suprisingly enough the little guy is still hyanging in there after several days of just water. He's a real fighter.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Oh, that sounds bad. You want to get about 200 to 250 milligrams PER KILOGRAM OF BIRD in him. Guessing that he's in the 200 gram range, that would mean 40 to 50 milligrams. If it's a 250 milligram pill, then you'd need to cut the pill into five or six pieces and dump one down. Read the label.

Pidgey


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## chipndales_boy (May 11, 2007)

*how long before trying solid foods?*

after i break the pill down and give it to him, how long should I wait before attempting to feed him?


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## chipndales_boy (May 11, 2007)

*pigeon has stopped throwing up! Thanks*

I just want to thank everyone for the advice and help. The 1month old (now) baby has stopped throwing up after being treated for just about every possible scenario with two different medications, one being just for canker, the other made to treat multiple problems. A local pigeon racer came to the rescue with the medication for canker and I found the other at the fish supplies section in wal mart. He is eating seed on his own and drinking on his own now. I was hoping for the best but I didn't expect to see good results so quickly after treatment. He has a sister and they are both hand raised and the first place they go when I turn them loose is my shoulder. I have really grown attached to these two and am very greatful for all the help and support. Next time I will let mom and dad bird raise the babies, though I am not sorry for hand raising these two because it was a real learning experience for me and the bonding from hand raising is priceless. which reminds me, if anyone out there has a mated couple please they need a home for please let me know. I am still looking for a few mated couples because my coupe is still 3/4 empty and I am really hoping to fill it with mom and dad birds that can raise some young in there. Thanks again for all the help and support. Tracy


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, you might be seeing more of the canker in your loft until you treat all of the birds. So, that fellow worked out after all, eh? That's good. Never would have thought Wal-Mart would have that stuff. Can you post the info directly off the label?

Pidgey


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## chipndales_boy (May 11, 2007)

*Sure, it's called "Parasite Clear" Tank Buddies*

The active ingredients are praziquantel, diflubenzuron, metronidazole, and acriflavine. I made sure his crop was mostly full with water and then I broke off a piece about half the size of an aspirine and fed it to him. The canker treatment used is called "Spartrix" and it's active ingredient is carnidazole. I hope this info helps someone else out who may be dealing with similar problems. The Parasite clear from wal mart can be purchased for under $3.00


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi chip,


Wow, glad to hear things worked out so well so fast.


The medicine appears to treat quite a few very different things, and along with the 'Spartirix' would have hit any Canker 'double'.


I was worried your Bird may have had Candida and not Canker, or, possibly, both.


Anyway, you have some good experience now and can build from it to keep learning.


If one has Pigeons, one will tend to get other ones too...and or sooner or later, some of these will be ill with something or another.


Best wishes!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, without some study into that "Parasite Clear", I'd tend to not want to use it at first glance. We do occasionally use Praziquantel but I don't know about the other two ingredients. The Carnidazole's better.

Pidgey


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi chipndales_boy,

I agree with Pidgey, I would be careful with the "Parasite Clear". I tried a number of searches on the product and although I could get a listing of the ingredients, the same as you provided, I could not get the concentrations. However, I did find a very similar product, that the instructions for are just about the same, that did provide a listing of concentrations.

http://www.backyardstyle.com/shop/index.php?page=shop-flypage-17060

The Parasite Clear comes in an "8 pack" and states that one pill will treat 10 gallons of water. The General Cure come in a powder form in sachets, but also gives the instructions 1 sachet will treat 10 gallons of water. The General Cure has a listing of Metronidazole 250mg. and Praziquantel 75mg. In Pigeons Praziquantel is used for, or added to, worm treatments to broaden the spectrum of worms that any particular product will treat for. The recommended dose for a full grown Pigeon of Praziquantel is 5mg, so 1/15th of the pills you have would contain the recommended dose of this medicine, plus Praziquantel is usually a one time treatment and if deemed needed, a second in 10-14 days, not something to be giving daily. Although Praziquantel has a safer profile than some other worm meds, I still would not recommend using the Parasite Clear, as you could unintentionally bring harm to your bird by overdosing.

All the best,

Ron


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Sometimes young birds just throw up because something doesn't agree with them, or their bodies are telling them they should be eating something more than formula, as in this case. Excessive grit intake can cause them to throw up, or sometimes they just need to purge for some reason. 

My hand reared youngsters threw up on several occasions when they were a few months old, sometimes it was because of eating too much grit, other times I never knew why. There is a "disease" called young bird sickness that can cause throwing up too, but it's usually a much more serious, long term problem. 

I think that pigeons like people just have "off" days with their digestive tract but it doesn't mean that one should start bombarding the bird with medications. Behaviour is a good indicator and pigeons can go a number of days with no food whatsoever...one of the benefits of having such a prominent crop. A good flushing of the system with water is sometimes all that is needed.


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## chipndales_boy (May 11, 2007)

*parasite clear or break!*

Afrter some careful thought I have to respond to these post. I don't know if everyone understands the dire circumstances this pigeon was in, but to put it frankly, he was dieing. I did not no that I would be fortunate unuff to find a pigeon racer with some medicine at the moment I purchased the parasite clear. But the pigeon is well and doing fine now, so here is my advice. If you have access and money for other medications that will help your sick bird than by all means use them, however if you live ina small town as I do and do not have access to other types of medications or maybe you don't have the budget for them and your bird is very ill and may die, then I say buy parasite clear and give it to your bird. If I was going to die and there was a medication that offered a chance, and it was my only option at the time, then heck ya, give it to me. Don't just let me die because the treatment may have risk. Treat me and treat me now!


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

There are always exceptions to the rule, but just like building a coop, medications/prevention products, should be obtained before the birds are acquired. It sure does save not only time, but lives.


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## chipndales_boy (May 11, 2007)

*I agree*

I agree medications should be purchased ahead of time. However you can't possibly plan ahead of time for every possible scenario. So if you do not have access to a drug that may save me and I am about to die, I will take the risk on the drug that could possibly save me. I only wish pigeons could speak for themselves, because I would really like to hear their opinion on this.


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