# hi cooper's hawk



## BabbaYagga (Jun 24, 2005)

Hi,

in the past week Ive had my first few pigeons die from a cooper's hawk, including one killed through the wire this morning. Ive never seen a coopers hawk around here before, just red tails and red-shouldered. Compared to the cooper, red tails are red-shouldered hawks are nothing. I have to admit the coopers hawk is a pretty awesome hawk, even though it kills my best pigeons. mad: ) Any one agree? 

Im definately not letting my pigeons out this morning, but is it okay to let the chickens out? I have a few bantams and smaller chickens, will coopers hawks take chickens? Are they inactive in the afternoon or what times do they usually hunt? Im sure lots of you guys have experience with these hawks, so please help me out here!


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Sorry to read the Cooper is taking some of your pigeons. Some of the racing members will be better able to answer you about the best times to let them out.

Hawks will definitely get chickens if they are not secured behind a completely enclosed area. You mentioned a pigeon was killed this morning "through the wire". Does this mean it was able to grab one through the wire of a cage? You need to use l/4" hardware cloth on your enclosure to make sure they can't reach the pigeons or chickens with their talons.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

BabbaYagga said:


> Hi,
> 
> in the past week Ive had my first few pigeons die from a cooper's hawk, including one killed through the wire this morning. Ive never seen a coopers hawk around here before, just red tails and red-shouldered. Compared to the cooper, red tails are red-shouldered hawks are nothing. I have to admit the coopers hawk is a pretty awesome hawk, even though it kills my best pigeons. mad: ) Any one agree?
> 
> Im definately not letting my pigeons out this morning, but is it okay to let the chickens out? I have a few bantams and smaller chickens, will coopers hawks take chickens? Are they inactive in the afternoon or what times do they usually hunt? Im sure lots of you guys have experience with these hawks, so please help me out here!


They will take chickens and even small dogs. Even if they can't "take" them, they can sure inflict damage.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I'm so sorry to hear the Coopers hawk has killed your pigeons. How did the one get killed thru the wire?

I have not lost a bird to a cooper or any other hawk, but yes, they are more aggressive and agile then the red tailed hawk, and also pigeons are their favorite meal whereas the red tail prefer rodents and such.

Perhaps the coopers that are frequenting your loft have babies, which means they may be close by and that is keeping them coming back too for more food.

I would not leave the chickens outside either, as the hawks will kill them too.

Use a double reinforced fencing material over chicken wire or hardware cloth outside for the aviary and don't allow the perches to be close to any edge should pigeons sit there and talons come thru.


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## BabbaYagga (Jun 24, 2005)

The pigeon that got killed this morning was in a seperate breeding cage, similar to a large rabbit hutch, the bar spacings are about an inch. I dont really know how it happened, but Im assuming the hawk snuck up on the pigeon while he was up perching against the wire, grabbed him with its talons and squeezed/maimed it. Blood everywhere, a very horrible kill. This has never happened before, and I didnt realize hawks could kill through wire. 

The wire on my pigeon loft is one-inch chicken wire, but I believe the rest of the pigeons will be safe since none of the perches are adjacent to the wire. Ill definatley be keeping an eye on them, though!


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

You can use chicken wire to seperate a room within the coop, but not as an outside barrier. Any exterior wire that is used between your birds and the elements needs to be 1/4 inch hardware cloth and a thick gage. Chicken wire is not safe, unless it is covered with hardware cloth or fencing. They don't have to sit close or against it, they can still be killed or hurt badly.

Anything can get thru chicken wire, including racoons, snakes, hawks and rodents, which can bring disease into your loft. It's not only the fact that it is wide enough for rodents and things to get into, but it can be manipulated like aluminum foil. That is why the hawk was able to penetrate thru it and injure your bird.

It rarely gets better, only worse. Replace it now, you have been warned.


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## Rooster2312 (Mar 8, 2006)

BabbaYagga,

I am so sorry to read of the loss of your pigeons to a hawk. In order to keep your pigeons and chickens safe from hawks and other predators, please heed the proper advice from the experienced members here:




Trees Gray said:


> I'm so sorry to hear the Coopers hawk has killed your pigeons. How did the one get killed thru the wire?
> 
> I have not lost a bird to a cooper or any other hawk, but yes, they are more aggressive and agile then the red tailed hawk, and also pigeons are their favorite meal whereas the red tail prefer rodents and such.
> 
> ...





Lady Tarheel said:


> Sorry to read the Cooper is taking some of your pigeons. *Some of the racing members will be better able to answer you about the best times to let them out.*
> *Hawks will definitely get chickens if they are not secured behind a completely enclosed area.* You mentioned a pigeon was killed this morning "through the wire". Does this mean it was able to grab one through the wire of a cage? *You need to use l/4" hardware cloth on your enclosure to make sure they can't reach the pigeons or chickens with their talons.*





Lovebirds said:


> *They will take chickens and even small dogs. Even if they can't "take" them, they can sure inflict damage.*


Lindi


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## Rooster2312 (Mar 8, 2006)

Thanks Tressa for reinforcing this important warning. Our posts just crossed.

Lindi


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

They will kill cats and kittens too! You know that feral, REAL feral cats, not abandoned house cats dont meow? tHAT IS A LEARNED BEHAVIOR FOR DOMESTICATED CATS! oops, caps lock!
Anyways, feral cats DONT teach their kittens how to meow because of predators finding them, now, if you adopt a feral cat and bring it home with your house cats, they sometimes learn to meow again by mimicry. You can tell if it's an abandoned or feral cat by if they meow sometimes. I didnt know that before, just another little fact i've learned at my new job!


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## David Ey (Dec 31, 2007)

Any good pictures of the cooper and red tailed hawks in flight? I thought I knew the difference in hawks and buzzards but for the life of me I am confused. I tried googeling but haven't found a good picture in flight yet.
I think there were 8 hawks about 1/4 mile from my house yesterday!!!


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

David Ey said:


> Any good pictures of the cooper and red tailed hawks in flight? I thought I knew the difference in hawks and buzzards but for the life of me I am confused. I tried googeling but haven't found a good picture in flight yet.
> I think there were 8 hawks about 1/4 mile from my house yesterday!!!


I'm certainly no expert and but I doubt you saw 8 hawks flying together. That sounds more like buzzards. When hawks are migrating they fly in flocks......I've seen dozens flying together over the top of my house, but they usually are flying single, or maybe with a mate.


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## David Ey (Dec 31, 2007)

These birds were white, or at least light colored on the underside of their wings.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

David Ey said:


> These birds were white, or at least light colored on the underside of their wings.


Well, the buzzards do have a bit of what looks like a whitish color underneath. Buzzards tend to soar and glide for a long period of time, round and round in circles. Hawks glide too, but every minute or so (I don't really know how long) they will flap their wings a few times. I don't know how to explain it really.


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## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

I am having problems with those damn Coppers as well. Not with pigeons though but with all the wild birds outside that have been coming to my feeders for the past 12 years now. Red tails are a pain too but no where as bad as the Cooper Hawk which I am sorry but to say I hate those hawks, They dive into trees and under bushes for the poor birds. I know where the nests are up in the trees so my wrist sling shot and tennis balls are going out there today to see about knocking their nest out of the tree. Hopefully they will take their bodies and nest somewhere else instead of acroos the street from my house. Last year I had one sitting on my balcony starring at my rehab birds, Wow did I chase his butt away real fast! They are very pretty birds but I don't want them around here. I guess this year I release my rehab birds over to my dads house. 

Cindy


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## Snowbird Sue (Dec 31, 2007)

Hi Naturegirl, sorry to hear about the hawks, but isn't disturbing their nest illegal? I sure hate to see you get into hot water! they are our pigeon's enemy, that is for sure. Maybe can you discourage them some other way, other than messing with their nest? I wish you luck!


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## jojo67 (Jul 14, 2007)

Lovebirds said:


> Well, the buzzards do have a bit of what looks like a whitish color underneath. Buzzards tend to soar and glide for a long period of time, round and round in circles. Hawks glide too, but every minute or so (I don't really know how long) they will flap their wings a few times. I don't know how to explain it really.


Hi all, for the first time i seen which i think where buzards gliding in a circle, 3 0f them today, they where calling to each other, are they dangerous to the pigeons and do they attack in flight or on the ground..


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

jojo67 said:


> Hi all, for the first time i seen which i think where buzards gliding in a circle, 3 0f them today, they where calling to each other, are they dangerous to the pigeons and do they attack in flight or on the ground..


Buzzards don't attack at all. They eat dead animals. (Road kill) YUCK..
I also have never heard buzzards make any sound. I guess they do........I've just never heard it. If you have more than one hawk, they will call to each other while flying.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Snowbird Sue said:


> Hi Naturegirl, sorry to hear about the hawks, *but isn't disturbing their nest illegal?* I sure hate to see you get into hot water! they are our pigeon's enemy, that is for sure. Maybe can you discourage them some other way, other than messing with their nest? I wish you luck!


In the eyes of the law, it's just as bad as killing a hawk. Don't do it......


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## jojo67 (Jul 14, 2007)

Thankyou renee, i wil look them up on goggle and make sure they are what i seen, i hope they are and not something else, Thanks again,

PS. sorry to read about the birds the man released, as you said try to help some people and what happen's.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

jojo67 said:


> Thankyou renee, i wil look them up on goggle and make sure they are what i seen, i hope they are and not something else, Thanks again,
> 
> PS. sorry to read about the birds the man released, as you said try to help some people and what happen's.


Thanks. I was hoping (but not REALLY expecting) the others would show up. Don't think it's gonna happen.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

You know, another thing about buzzards.......their wing feathers usually look really ratty and torn and you can easily see gaps.


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## jojo67 (Jul 14, 2007)

Yes renee, i looked up the buzzards and got a video clip, it is what i seen, hope i see nothing else, thanks again.

ps I tried to upload the file but it would'nt do it.


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## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

ok i won't but what else can we do? They kill everything that flies including all my rehab babies. Chased one out the other day and he flew off with a starling still trying to get out of his claws. 

Cindy


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

naturegirl said:


> ok i won't but what else can we do? They kill everything that flies including all my rehab babies. Chased one out the other day and he flew off with a starling still trying to get out of his claws.
> 
> Cindy


There's nothing you can do. It's nature. I know it doesn't make it any easier, but at least the hawk is taking the wild birds..........just think how we feel when a hawk takes one of our racers that we've raised, trained and in a lot of cases has won a race or maybe more than one race and in an instant.......Mr. Hawk has lunch on us........ 
Like everyone says........the hawks have to eat to.


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## AaronsWorld (Feb 7, 2008)

David Ey said:


> Any good pictures of the cooper and red tailed hawks in flight? I thought I knew the difference in hawks and buzzards but for the life of me I am confused. I tried googeling but haven't found a good picture in flight yet.
> I think there were 8 hawks about 1/4 mile from my house yesterday!!!


Identification->
http://www.cvm.umn.edu/img/assets/16863/Identification_of_Midwest_Raptors.pdf
some inflight photos->
http://www.ccbirding.com/thw/id/species.htm



naturegirl said:


> I am having problems with those damn Coppers as well. Not with pigeons though but with all the wild birds outside that have been coming to my feeders for the past 12 years now. Red tails are a pain too but no where as bad as the Cooper Hawk which I am sorry but to say I hate those hawks, They dive into trees and under bushes for the poor birds. I know where the nests are up in the trees so my wrist sling shot and tennis balls are going out there today to see about knocking their nest out of the tree. Hopefully they will take their bodies and nest somewhere else instead of acroos the street from my house. Last year I had one sitting on my balcony starring at my rehab birds, Wow did I chase his butt away real fast! They are very pretty birds but I don't want them around here. I guess this year I release my rehab birds over to my dads house.
> 
> Cindy


I always assumed any problems I had with them were good for selection of the fastest birds in my flock or due to a mistake of mine-> Such as letting them go at the wrong place or the wrong time.


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

Vultures (buzzards) are pretty easy to tell, as their wings form a "V" when in flight--easy to remember; V for Vulture.  I have heard before of hawks killing birds through wire, unless the wire is 1/4 inch. What a terrible thing to have happen, and I'm sorry that it happened to your birds.


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## David Ey (Dec 31, 2007)

Thanks friends. That helps a lot. What I have are buzzards.


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

David Ey said:


> Thanks friends. That helps a lot. What I have are buzzards.


David,

Look again at the web sites that Arronsworld provided us. 

http://www.ccbirding.com/thw/id/species.htm
Scroll down to broad winged hawks. There are many flying together.

This is a surprise to me too.

Thanks Arronsworld!


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Feather said:


> David,
> 
> Look again at the web sites that Arronsworld provided us.
> 
> ...


I've seen hawks do this when they are migrating. They are barely little specks in the sky they are so high up. We can see them go over our house and have counted as many as 40 at one time. It's a pleasure to see them "so far away" and heading somewhere besides here. 
We do wonder though, since we see them while waiting on birds to come in from a race, if they ever run into a flock of pigeons heading home and if so, do these 30, 40 hawks all try to get a quick meal?


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## Guest (Mar 22, 2008)

the only hawks I worry about are the coopers hawks , red tails can catch a bird every now an then if they are young or slow ,perigrines can be really brutal if you have them in your area but they dont seem to come on a daily basis but the coopers are relentless and wont stop coming around til you run out of birds ... even if you keep your birds inside the coop they still come around an try to get your birds but at least when kept inside they cant get them but they will still terrorize them at will .. I hate when i hear people say that hawks have to eat too when there are thousands of birds out in the woods flying wild and they still come to my loft every day multiple times .. thats like saying people have to eat and visit a local farm an eat their chickens when their hungry .. it aint right that we have no rights to protect their lives


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## ezemaxima (Jan 12, 2008)

BabbaYagga said:


> The pigeon that got killed this morning was in a seperate breeding cage, similar to a large rabbit hutch, the bar spacings are about an inch. I dont really know how it happened, but Im assuming the hawk snuck up on the pigeon while he was up perching against the wire, grabbed him with its talons and squeezed/maimed it. Blood everywhere, a very horrible kill. This has never happened before, and I didnt realize hawks could kill through wire.


I'm assuming it snuck up or terrorized your pigeon then when it had the chance pecked it. I've seen hawks stick their head in an opening as small as 1 inch.


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## userm6459 (Mar 22, 2008)

The bird killed through the wire was probably killed by a cat.


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## David Ey (Dec 31, 2007)

Well, I am trying to post some pics of the "buzzards" in flight I took today but I can't seem to remember how. I did find the area and deleted some I had posted before but now I am lost.


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## AaronsWorld (Feb 7, 2008)

Ya those are the real "buzzards" ... aka vultures. 

Looks like a Turkey Vulture but not sure what other kinds you have over in texas.


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## David Ey (Dec 31, 2007)

Thanks for the verification Aaron.


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## Guest (Mar 24, 2008)

yes those are turkey vultures you can tell by the red heads... there are other vultures called black vultures too but they have a black head and are a little bit smaller then the turkey ones .. they do hang out together though so are often seen sunning themselves on those high cell phone towers or big old dead trees among other places


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