# 3-4 week feral pigeon found



## Nicola123 (Aug 3, 2010)

Hi,

Not sure what to do here so i'm just going to type and hope i get some help....

We found a baby pigeon today under a bridge which is also a very busy narrow main road. i'm guessing it came from a nest under the bridge and i think we could see the parents but not sure. Unfortunately the road is too busy to leave the young pigeon where it was and the bridge is too high to get up there to see if the nest is there. As there was no safe place away from the road we could leave it near we have taken it home in fear it might of ended up being attacked by local cats or worse careless teenagers heading for a night on the town. 

After searching the internet i'm not entirely sure if its 'fledging' or has just fallen out of the nest. At a guess it is at most 21 days old (going off pictures on the internet of other young pigeons as it still has yellow feathers poking through - mainly on its head /neck and some on its wings and body) but its hard to determine when your not a pigeon expert so any help /advice on the below would be a great help!

1.) Should we return the young pigeon to where we found it or keep it at home untill it can fly? (We live about 3 - 4 miles away from where we found it so if we take it back we are unable to monier it)
2.) If we are keeping it with us can it feed itself? either way what do we feed it.
3.) When it opens its wings its seems to have small areas of bear skin on its back (also seen under the wings) - is this normal or has it lost its feathers somehow and will they grow back?

Many thanks for any help in advance!

Nicola and John


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## jondove (Nov 17, 2011)

Welcome to Pigeon Talk and thanks for saving that baby.



Nicola123 said:


> 1.) Should we return the young pigeon to where we found it or keep it at home untill it can fly? (We live about 3 - 4 miles away from where we found it so if we take it back we are unable to monier it)
> 2.) If we are keeping it with us can it feed itself? either way what do we feed it.
> 3.) When it opens its wings its seems to have small areas of bear skin on its back (also seen under the wings) - is this normal or has it lost its feathers somehow and will they grow back?


1) From what I understand you can't put him back in the nest and make sure the parents are still around and feeding him, so you should definitely keep him at home. Otherwise he will most certainly die.

2) The baby is probably at least 15 days old, so you can feed him frozen peas and corn, thawed in warm water, as described in various posts here.

3)That's because he is still young, the white feathers under the wings are the last to grow, by the way when these last feathers under the wings are fully grown, they say a baby can be weaned.

I'm sure you will get more replies soon. Posting some pictures of the bird and the droppings in the meantime would help a lot.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Thanks for caring.

Immediate steps:

1) check for any external injury: cuts, scraps, lesions.

2) wrap him/her gently in a towel so only the head sticks out. Hold the head between 2 fingers and gently pry the beak open. Is her breath fould smelling ? Or are there any white or yellow dots or growths in the mouth...or mucous ?

3) Put him in a very warm environment. I am talking 80 degrees F/23 C. If you cannot make a room that warm....get a heating pad, set on low, and place it under a layer of towel, and use that as the lining to her cage/box/enclosure. Cover the enclosure 3/4 way with a towel or blanket.

4) Where are you located ?

5) at 4 weeks he/she might recognize solid food. You can buy some wild birdseed mix, safflower seed, or even Parrot pellets (Budgie sized) and place them in his enclosure. See if he knows how to peck. If not, get some frozen peas and corn.

Thaw the pieces under hot tap water until no longer frozen and lukewarm (check the insides, too !). You can then handfeed them, one at a time, into the mouth by once again holding her and gently prying the beak open and popping a single morsel in the mouth (toward the middle/back) then closing the beak. They usually will swallow automatically.

Start with 6 or 7 pieces in the first feeding. Then, 3 hours later, feed again and see if you can up it to 10-12. Next feeding, 3-4 hours later...try 15-18. 3 or 4 feedings a day. By the second day of feeding (if this is the method you must use) try to work her up to 25 pieces per meal.


Again, you saved your pal's life. The world needs more people like you !


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## Nicola123 (Aug 3, 2010)

Hi Walter/Jaye,

Thank you so much for replying.

Regarding food we are already hand feeding him/her peas which is taking time but so far its managed 6/7. Will he/she need another source of food for protein / nutrients or is peas fine for now? 

Jaye, answer to your questions below..

1.) there does seem to be a small scab on its back were it has no feathers.

2.) There seems to be no foul smell or white / yellow dots/growths

4.) we are located near Wigan, England

i will try and post some pictures later this evening which may help someone to determine how old it is.

Thanks very much for your help,

Nicola and John


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## jondove (Nov 17, 2011)

Actually peas contain too much protein, which may not be bad for when he's still growing, but switching to a more balanced diet soon would be better for the baby to get all the right nutrients, vitamins and minerals. He'll start eating by himself pretty soon, so you could get him a special pigeon mix. He'll also need grit when he'll start to eat dry seeds, to be able to digest them.

But right now he should be fine for a while on peas and corn. If things go well and the crop is emptying, when you start feeding more, you could start popping 2 pieces at once in his beak.

In principle, you should not give him new food if the crop isn't empty. If the crop doesn't empty as it should, ask for advice on the forum immediately.

Also, if there is the slightest chance of a a cat bite, you should start him on antibiotics ASAP, cat saliva contains a bacteria that's deadly to pigeons.

Could you also post pictures of the poo? It can tell a lot about the state of health of a bird.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

All good advice...peas for a 4 week old won't hurt for a few weeks, and it will both hydrate and put on weight. Plus, it's easy to do. If that is all he/she is eating, it will suffice for several weeks. Good job !

Do you have any antibiotics at your home ? Either pet or human grade ? Penicillin, Ampicillin, Amoxycillin, Augmentin, Baytril/Cipro, Ceclor, or Cephalexin ? I have contacted some UK members so perhaps they can help you out.

How is the baby today ?


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## Nicola123 (Aug 3, 2010)

Hi,

The baby seems fine today, its currently settled in its own little den under a table. Its still abit wary of us but I can only imagine this is a good thing? Not sure how much time should be spent with it as we’re hoping when the time is right we can release it? 

I think its crop is emptying but I don’t think we have previously given it enough to notice a significant difference is size before/after we fed it. We have just fed it again and its crop definitely looks bigger / fuller so we will keep an eye on it - how long does it usually take to empty? 

Noticed when feeding, it doesn’t seem to want to open its beak. Instead it just pecks at the pea (and my finger) so we are having to force the beak open to insert half a pea at a time. We have seen it open its beak though (not when feeding) so we know it can. It has tried to eat off the floor but all it manages is pecking at small pieces which end up moving around. 

I've read that oats soaked in warm water is good for a young pigeon - is this wise?

Another thing it seems to do is groom itself (i think?) just were the bald spots are on its back and under the wings - is this normal? or could this be a sign of some kind of infection or lice? i don’t think it has been bitten by a cat but not 100% sure. i will try and get hold of some antibiotics as soon as though. 

Unfortunately we are struggling with getting pictures on here so for now here's a description of its poo...initially it was dark, sticky and clumped together but today i noticed it had a bit of a white / creamy substance mixed in there too - again, is this normal?

Thank you agin for all you advice!

Nicola and John


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi,

Just caought up with your thread and sounds as if you're managing really well so far and had some good advice.

Poops sound ok from the description.

If he's doing ok and taking peas I wouldn't give him oats at this stage. You said he's pecking at your fingers and at the floor so this shows he's starting to experiment at self feeding so I'd encourage that and not go back to soft foods now.

While still hand feeding the peas I'd scatter some small seeds if you have any around him so he can practice picking up. He'll not manage it at all to start with but it lets him try and keeps him busy so don't worry if he just manages to move them about and not actually get any in his mouth for a good while yet.

Preening his feathers is also normal as new ones are constantly growing.

So for now carry on as you are and keep us posted as to how he's doing.
If you're planning on releasing him then as hard as it is it's best not to let him get too used to you handling him. Difficult as they're so cute but he'll need to be wary of humans if he's to survive out there.

Good luck and just ask if you have any worries.

Janet


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## Nicola123 (Aug 3, 2010)

Hi Janet,

Thaks for the info and support!

Quick question, how long does it usually take for the crop to empty? 

Many thanks,

Nicola and John


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## PigeonQueen (Aug 13, 2006)

Hello , as Jaye said the pigeon needs to eat 25 peas for each feed. 6 or 7 peas is not enough. The pigeon also needs water so smallish pieces of brown bread soaked in water and placed at the very back of the throat would help.Also you could hand feed corn,wheat,safflower,sunflower seeds(they love these).
What does the pigeon weigh?

Where are you based in the UK. There might be a member near to where you are?

Im on the LOndon/Surrey borders.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

If you are going to release it then it might be best to take it to a rescue centre where it can mix with other pigeons and be released as part of a mini flock somewhere it won't have to struggle to survive. Usually when pigeons leave their nest the father pigeon shows them around and feeds them while they find their feet. 

You have two good rescue centres up there: Freshfields at Ince Blundell and The Greenmount Bird Hospital at Bury.


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## PigeonQueen (Aug 13, 2006)

Hello again, 

Follys Wildlife Sanctuary are very good with young pigeons and prepare them for release with others. They have a 'baby unit'

Their address is Follys,Folly cottage, Danegate, Eridge green, Tunbridge Wells Kent TN3 9JB. phone 01892 750865 and ask for Annette.


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## PigeonQueen (Aug 13, 2006)

Also South Manchester Wildlife (at Alderely Edge) are pigeon friendly. There phone number is 07950 867353 ask for Martin


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## Nicola123 (Aug 3, 2010)

Hi,

Thanks very much for these. I have actually taken 2 other pigeons to Martin at Alderely Edge before now but i'm unabe to get up there at the moment and i know he has mentioed before i'm a bit too farout of his way. So, i was thinking i could just keep it here a couple more days until i can get it up there. 

I'm struggleing to know whether its crop is emtyping? It does seem to have a small solid bit on its breast but i dont know if this is its breast bone or food still in its crop? i will try and get a pic on here for anyone who can tell just by looking. The food i fed it this morning does seem to have emptied but the lump still remains?

i have just been on the run around for some Braggs ACV but cannot find any anyhwere. i have managed to get just normal cider vinegar made by 'Maille' and also stopped in at pets at home but all i could find was 'Johnson's poultry acv conditioner with apple cidre vinegar' - the staff wernt much help to be honest so i got this as well in hope i could find some more info on it on the interent. Does anyone know if this will be suitable if i give recommended dose?

Many thanks,

Nicola and John


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

What the ACV does is to put an acidic environment in the gut. Bad bacteria don't like an acidic environment, but the good gut bacteria do. So, if you can't find the other ACV, then yes, it will help.

If you feel his crop before you feed him, then give enough peas, you should be able to feel it inflating like a little soft pillow. You want it to be maybe 3/4 full, where it is still soft and squishy, not hard and packed. When it empties, it will go back down flat. I don't know what it is that you are feeling. Could be the breast bone? Can you follow it all the way down the front of the bird?


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## Nicola123 (Aug 3, 2010)

i'm just about to feed him/her again so i will do another check. The lump is hard and i'm able to grip it between my finger and thumb but it is not solid like a bone. we're trying to get a pic on now so will post as soon as i can.

Re. ACV we've read 1 drop per 1 ml but it does not states how many mls to give. is it just 1?


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## Nicola123 (Aug 3, 2010)

hi,

this is a pic of him / her from earlier today shortly after he'd / she'd eaten 25 peas.


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## PigeonQueen (Aug 13, 2006)

I think you should be feeding the pigeon more than 25 peas. You could buy some sunflower seeds or wild bird seed which has wheat in it. You could hand feed the pigeon. 

Is the pigeon drinking water on its own? You could give brown bread soaked in water besides the peas. The pigeon needs about four meals a day. You could give 50 peas on each occasion if there is nothing else.Tinned sweetcorn can also be given.

The crop looks quite flat in the picture.

What does the pigeon weigh?


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

I agree that the crop doesn't look full there...so if that is what it looks like before you feed, I wouldn't hesitate to feed again. I wouldn't get all caught up in the crop being slow unless she is either not pooping, or the crop feels sorta like a water balloon filled with yogurt, and stays that way for more than 3 hours.....In a baby that size a non-emptying, bloated crop would be about the size of a golfball and a half.....

But she looks alert and not in any distress...distress being something a crop-static baby will often show.

As long as he/she is pooping and seems active and all, I would say just keep going. The ACV won't hurt any, either...but as PQ said, based solely on your portrait there, the crop isn't bloated at all.....

As I noted in my first post...work up to more than a handful of peas per feeding. Try to get around 75-100/day into him/her and even if that's all he eats, it'll be fine for the next few days. As PQ notes, some variety is better...but I have fed babies solely peas for a whole week with no adverse effects whatsoever...it's got a lotta carbs, protein, and water...and for a baby all of those things are good.

ACV =1 tablespoon per 1/2 gal....so that'd be a teaspoon/quart. Alternately, you can use a .5-1 ml/cc of appleasauce as well....does the same thing.


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## jondove (Nov 17, 2011)

If there was a problem with the crop, food would grow sour there leading to a yeast infection, that would fell feel like the crop was filled with water. Something solid like a bone is probably just that, a bone, so no need to worry.
Another thing you should go by is droppings, if there's enuogh coming out the other end, then food isn't stuck anywhere along the way.

You are probably feeling this part of the cervical vertebrae.


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## Nicola123 (Aug 3, 2010)

Thank you so much for all this help...although i know feel terrible that i may have just been slightly starving the poor thing!

He /she is become much more bold and lively as the days have gone on (even managed a small flight (long jump) from one thing to another) but as hard as it is we are trying to minimise our contact to prepare it for when we send it on its way - not sure if this matters or not but its seem happy and content with what we are doing. 

Thanks as well for the skeletal image...really helped (feel a bit daft now!)

Sorry to ask more and more questions but if anyone can answer them it would be greatly received...

1.) We are planning on taking him / her to a wildlife rescue on Friday (that accepts pigeons) - meaning he / she will have spent almost a full week with us. Can / will this affect its ability to learn what it needs to in order to survive in the wild when its eventually released? Or, is there a limited time period where it needs to develop socially amongst other pigeons? Reason i'm asking is there is a chance we could ask someone else to take the pigeon earlier but this is not definite and rather than impose on someone else it would be easier for us to take it ourselves, however; if waiting runs the risk of it being underdeveloped then we will definitely ask (make) someone else go.

2.) Pooping - I've just fed it (over 50 peas - both hand feeding and picking them up its self ) and afterwards it kept trying to eat it its own poo. i'm guessing its because its hungry as the food still needs to enter its stomach and digest but is its poo harmful in anyway if it eats it?

3.) Age - does anyone have an idea how old it may be (i no longer trust my judgement after the bone/crop confusion) 

We will try and weigh the pigeon as soon as and let you know.

Thanks once again...

Nicola and John


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Sounds like you're doing a great job. He will have no problem being placed with other pigeons after being with you. Don't worry about that He will be fine. He was feral when you found him, and he will remain the same. Someitimes there may be problems with a bird who was acquired as a baby, and hand reared. He may identify with humans. Your bird was not so young, and a week or so is not long at all to be with you. He will be fine. Eating his own poops, while it should be discouraged will not harm him. You guys did great. You saved a young life, who will now have a second chance at having a great life. He can grow up, and start a little family of his own because of you. Thanks for caring for him. You did good!


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## PigeonQueen (Aug 13, 2006)

Hello I have never heard of pigeons eating their own poops. Maybe someone else might comment on this.

I would take the pigeon to the rescue place as soon as possible. However please check whether the pigeon will be put with others at some point. They learn from others and the pigeon will quickly learn to eat on its own by copying others.

Apparantly the two rescue centres that Cynthia mentioned both have aviaries. I dont think Alderley Edge has an aviary. Perhaps you could check what facilites are on offer for this little pigeon.The pigeon will do better if it is socialised and then released with others.

Does the pigeon drink water on its own? I am wondering whether the pigeon is geting enough water. Are you feeding anything else besides the peas. 

You could put some water, bread crumbs and seed in a pot and the pigeon might pick at these rather than eat the poops.


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## Nicola123 (Aug 3, 2010)

Hi Pigeon Queen,

I will contact them in the morning to be sure but i think they do (its freshfields - ince blundell where i'm taking it)

Food - He / she is now managing to eat majority of the food on its own. We've been giving peas and sweetcorn (mainly peas) and i have been putting wild bird seed down for it to practice with (and to keep it occupied for a bit) Its happy to peck at these but does not eat them (or isnt able to?) Even when i hand feed them it tends to let go as soon as its in its mouth - i have got a few in there by holding the beak open - i thought as the seeds are smaller and a bit more solid than the peas / sweetcorn it might not realise this is also food but even after i've managed to get it to eat a few it still doesnt seem to eat them on its own, only continue to peck at them and drop them. is it still practising then?

Drinking water - it is drinking on its own from a deep(ish) dish that i keep an eye on. Initially i had to dip its beak in but then it started drinking more or less straight away. Seems to like to use it as bathing water too? How much should it be drinking each day on average?

Poops - It doesnt seem to eat its poo all the time, i just noticed it for first time today - it was before and shortly after i fed it. i think its stopped now. We do try and clean them up as soon as they're done but not always possible  

Thank you again for your help...thank you too Jaye, Jay3 and Jondove we're taking it all on board...glad there are poeple out there who care


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

You have done your friend a great service...good job !

Now...a warning: once you rescue one, you will be noticing that you will stumble across others in need of help from here on in. It sounds funny...but others here will concur...it's true. One of those Pigeon Karma thangs.  I think the word gets out in the Feral world, personally....


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## PigeonQueen (Aug 13, 2006)

Hello, Freshfields is a good choice so Im sure the pigeon will be okay.

Apparantly pigeons drink between 20 to 60 mls of water a day, average of 45 mls. This includes the water they get from food (vegetation) etc 

Please keep us updated and let us know how you get on at Freshfields.


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## Nicola123 (Aug 3, 2010)

i will do...thanks for mentioning Freshfields by the way. We actually regularly check the website (to see how some of the rescue dogs are getting on) but never considered here for pigeons, so i'm glad they're recognised for this too!

'Berty' (not sure where the name came from) seems to be doing well, i haven’t managed to weigh him / her yet so I’m still conscious of whether he is in good shape for his age...?

One thing which i'm sure can only be positive is he flaps his wings hard when he knows he is about to be fed. This is not only getting stronger and stronger each day but more controlled instead of slightly frantic. 

We are only taking him on Friday due to vehicle problems but i will keep posting his progress on here before he goes. Hopefully Freshfields will be able to keep us posted too (if they're not too busy) 

i agree with word getting out in the pigeon world....this is actually the 3rd one we have come across in the last year and a half but we only kept the other 2 overnight as we were able to take them to Martin @ alderley edge straight away on each occasion. Our vehicle situation is slightly different this time, plus the others were adults and did not spend as much time with us. This website helped alot at the time - we were able to just read through posts others had submitted so although i joined this website in Aug 2010, this is the first time I’ve had to submit something.... dont know how we would have coped without all the advise on here!


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## Tashy/Rob (Jan 18, 2012)

Hello Nicola,

Here's an idea, why don't you do what me and Tash did!!??

Look for 'The Story Of Pippa' on here!!

See what you think!! (I'm sure Amyable 'mega-wealthy' Janet will have something to say.....eeeeeeeee you should see her mansion!)

Rob


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