# help! egg is hatching!?!?!? and I don't have a clue.



## Suew (Sep 15, 2010)

Ok, so glad I found this forum! I have been reading like crazy. Yesterday a neighbor boy brought three pigeon eggs to my three kiddos from his grandmothers farm (FAR AWAY). How they survived in the first place I don't know... Anyway, we bought a heat lamp and have kept the temp between 95 and 100 degrees F. Two of the eggs are probably less than a week old. The Third egg is our focus right now because it is starting to hatch. Yikes! How long does this process take? three hours ago we came home to a small extroverted X shaped peck. Very, very little progress has been made so far...slightly longer 2mm cracks extending on one side from the starting point. I just (very very carefully and momentarily) placed the egg in my hand and felt movement inside the egg. So I know this little guy is still alive. Once he/she hatches what do We do? I have some Greek style organic plain yogurt on hand, eggs, and grape-seed oil. Will that work as a "Milk mix"? I am not sure if our very small town pet shop carries Exact, or bird formula. I just need something to sustain this little one until I can get or order something better. Do I feed it immediately or can I expect it to sleep a little while? Also I have read on the dangers of aspirating. Can I use the balloon or baggie method right away or would a syringe and tube be better at first? Thank you so much for your help!


----------



## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Sue, to raise a newly hatched neo-natal pigeon from day one is not an easy thing to do, it is not something myself, and many others here I am sure would want to do, as it is fraught with dangers and heartbreak, especially if you have no experience. Here are a few links below to get you started, please don't take this wrong, but the other two eggs, that are under a week old, I would recommend that you just dispose of them, as they are not developed yet and there will be no pain or injury to anything inside. I am hoping others, who have raised babies from this young, may be able to better help you out. You won't need Exact for a few days, so you will have time to get some, if the baby survives.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f25/macmilk-crop-milk-substitute-15236.html
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f25/hand-feeding-baby-pigeons-from-day-one-9918.html

Good luck,

Karyn


----------



## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

Someone who has more practical experience in feeding squabs from day one will be here soon to help you. Let me tell you a couple of things for the time being.

1) You need to order the bird formula right away and in the available fastest shipping method

2) Complete hatching process may take hours to almost a day, do not force open the shell or pull out the squab

3) Squabs are fed right away, there is no sleeping time. In the absence of bird formula you can feed it thorough boiled egg yolk diluted in luke warm water. One average size egg yolk in 30 ml water should be dilute enough, I think !!!

4) I will suggest balloon method to syringe and tube method

Please understand that this is not an easy job, each feeding consumes time, requires patience and feeding has to be repeated every 2 hours including the night hours.

You can keep a bowl with water near the same place for humidity.

I would not try hatching the other two eggs if I was you. I completely do not understand what the neighbor boy had in mind when giving the eggs !!!

Also please post your exact location, may be we got a member somewhere near to there


----------



## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

Dobato said:


> Sue, to raise a newly hatched neo-natal pigeon from day one is not an easy thing to do, it is not something myself, and many others here I am sure would want to do, as it is fraught with dangers and heartbreak, especially if you have no experience. Here are a few links below to get you started, please don't take this wrong, but the other two eggs, that are under a week old, I would recommend that you just dispose of them, as they are not developed yet and there will be no pain or injury to anything inside. I am hoping others, who have raised babies from this young, may be able to better help you out. You won't need Exact for a few days, so you will have time to get some, if the baby survives.
> 
> http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f25/macmilk-crop-milk-substitute-15236.html
> http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f25/hand-feeding-baby-pigeons-from-day-one-9918.html
> ...


Guess we both were typing the same time


----------



## Suew (Sep 15, 2010)

Thank you Karyn and Sreesh! I have an idea as to what the neighbor boy was thinking... My 11y/o animal loving son has become the neighborhood wildlife rehab and release "guru". He has been asking for a pair of pet finches to breed and study for about a year now and my reply has always been, "God created such a wonderful variety of birds in the wild, why not enjoy them in their natural habitat." SO our "dear neighbor decided to win the heart of my 13y/o daughter by gifting her darling brother and baby sister some "pet" birds. We live in Northeastern Colorado. I will keep you posted on the fate of the hatchling. My son is watching vigilantly. Again thank you for you quick responses.


----------



## tipllers rule (Aug 2, 2010)

to the first reply yes i some what if you want a pet you get like a squab but yes the first days of it are the worst


----------



## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

OMG, I overslept this morning and wake up to a PM from Sreeshs about this thread  I have to get ready for work but this is what I do for newborns......
Have a heating pad set on *low*, I cover it with fleece (kinda "ruffled" up- not flat and smooth), then a small "floppy" style stuffed animal. Set the baby *next to* the stuffed animal (not under because it can get too hot even on low)
I use the "bottle method" of feeding

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f25/various-methods-to-feed-young-squabs-9682-2.html
Post #28
Your going to need to cut a SMALL hole in the nipple - just enough for baby to slip his beak into.
"Nuzzle" his beak gently with your fingers first to teach him how to eat.
Make sure formula (Exact hand feeding formula) is warm - NOT TOO HOT (warm on the "wrist test") Feeding small amounts at 1st.
Have to get ready for work (and feed my babies!) Will try to check back from work - if I can't, I will check back as soon as I get home.......Good luck!


----------



## avian (Sep 6, 2010)

Tender care for the squab is something you have to get used to


----------



## doveone52 (Aug 3, 2009)

I also favor the bottle method. Keep a moist paper towel handy as they are messy! Perhaps you could ask this industrious boy to find a pair to foster the baby!
I can so relate to your son, the rehabber! I have a grandson who I've dubbed the "pigeon whisperer"! He can do anything with the birds-things I can't do even though I'm the feeder and the cleaning lady! Let us know how it goes!


----------



## Suew (Sep 15, 2010)

Thank you all for your helpful comments. I am waiting for the the pet store to open to inquire about the exact. The little guy sound like he is working hard in his shell although it does not appear any more progress has been made in the past nine hours. This is giving us time to prepare for this daunting task. I really appreciate this forum. I have no knowledge of birds aside from observing them out in the wild. We did raise and release a pair of storm blown baby Robbins that a finch lady found and did not have time to care for. Raising pigeons from eggs is completely different. We do not have wild pigeons around here only a few breeds of doves ie, White Winged Dove, Mourning Dove, and as of recent - the Barbary Dove.


----------



## Suew (Sep 15, 2010)

We have a pigeon or dove! After 45 hours of waiting patiently and resisting the temptation to "help" Piji hatched. Piji seems to be doing well. The first feeding was daunting and I thought that I was suffocating it with the bottle first then the bag. We found a way of feeding that works for both of us. I am using the bottle nipple as a cup and letting Piji root around the open end and suck up how ever much he/she wants. Is it better to cup feed or syringe feed a brand new squab? All of the pics and videos that I have seen of the baggie and bottle method are of older squabs. Does any one know what type it is?


----------



## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Sue, it's best to either post up photos directly to this site, or use a web photo-album, like Photobucket or Foki, to share photos, as a lot of folks here may not use Facebook. Baby needs to be kept at about 95 degrees and on a surface, like a terry cloth towel, so the feet can get a good grip to avoid problems that can occur later when there legs/feet aren't set well beneath them. You may want to get a 3cc syringe and cut then end off of it, draw some food up with the plunger and see how that may work. The first days will be the hardest, s/he will need feed every few hours up until late, then start again early the next day. Watch the food temperature very closely, needs to be at 104 degrees, this is much harder to regulate with the small amounts you will be feeding, but do you best and this goes until s/he is a few weeks old. We really don't want to have to deal with the problems that can occur from feeding either cold (by this I mean room temperature) or stale (always make fresh food) formula. You have you work cut out for you, good luck again.

Karyn


----------



## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

OMG... I was reading this post. and reading it real fast .. and when i started to read i went to check the date the thread was posted.. then i checked todays date..
and then finally i got to the bottom of the thread........ and yeahhhhhhhhhhh
baby is born..
im sooooo happy...
wow
and the pictures are great....
u go girl.
if u need anything let me know...


----------



## Suew (Sep 15, 2010)

Sorry, I couldn't figure out how to post photos directly on earlier. I don't have any photos beyond the first 5 minutes after hatching but Piji does have a better "nest". Piji has been eating very well. It is hard to keep the food warm enough. Could this be why its crop seems to be so full of air after he/she eats? As the food digests the air deflates as well. It has defecated just before it is time to feed it each time. So I am assuming every thing is alright. I am mixing more kaytee than needed just to help keep the temp up. When do I introduce chalk to the diet and what other supplements does this little one need?


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Suew .. sounds like you are doing a great job thus far! Good on you! This is not an easy task that you've undertaken, BUT .. you CAN do it!

I'm currently raising a baby pigeon that is now 11 days old today, but I started when it was 1 day old. It can be done. Hopefully your baby is not genetically challenged as mine is and all will turn out well for you and your little one.

You don't really need a lot of formula for one as small as yours, and you can keep the formula warm by making up the formula in a very small container and then placing that container is a bit larger one that is full of very, very hot water .. kind of a double boiler type of thing. Stir the formula with your finger to test the temp and then feed when it's warm enough. NEVER feed super hot formula as you will burn the mouth, throat, and crop of the little bird.

Feel free to call me if you need help or have questions. I'm PM'ing you my cell phone #.

My best to you and the little one.

Terry


----------



## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

Good news  happy to hear its going well. As long as you are feeding Kaytee baby formula, additional supplements are not required at this time.

The "air" which you are mentioning, I think its the crop getting full but if you can post a couple of pictures that will give a clue.


----------



## Suew (Sep 15, 2010)

Thanks Terry you can definitely expect a call from me later today


----------



## Suew (Sep 15, 2010)

Will Do Sreesh, after the next feeding. Thank you.


----------



## Suew (Sep 15, 2010)

I'm having trouble uploading the pic.


----------



## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Sue, most likely the photo is too large in size. Photos need to be under 100kb in size to be able to be accepted. The photo you posted earlier is 83kb, that's why it was able to be uploaded. Try using the Microsoft program, Paint, it's free with all versions of Windows. Open your photo, then go to Image, then to resize. It will show your image starting at 100% (both vertical and horizontal) change each value to 25% and save and the see what size the image is then at. Thanks Terry for offering the "one on one" with Sue.

Karyn


----------



## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

Suew said:


> I'm having trouble uploading the pic.


Upload it in a site like google photos http://picasaweb.google.com and post the image link, the picture will come up fine.


----------



## Suew (Sep 15, 2010)

http://picasaweb.google.com/102618590613300821757/Piji#5517944284618577202[/URL] Thank you. hope fully this worked. Here is a pic of Piji after eating about 30 min ago.


----------



## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

Does that crop deflate completely before you feed him again ? When feeding, fill it to 3/4th of the crop, that one is sure bulgy


----------



## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

Suew said:


> http://picasaweb.google.com/102618590613300821757/Piji#5517944284618577202[/URL] Thank you. hope fully this worked. Here is a pic of Piji after eating about 30 min ago.


On the right hand side of the picasa website, in the link to picture, click on "image only", copy the jpg link and use the "Insert Image" icon in the posting box here at PT and paste it, that will insert the image directly in the post so that viewers can view it here itself without the need to go to the picasa wensite


----------



## Suew (Sep 15, 2010)

The crop only fills about halfway with food and the rest is air. Piji is starting to get the hang of the balloon/bottle method so I know that I am not pushing air in via a syringe(haven't used that at all). oh and the crop does deflate before the next feeding. Some times Piji acts hungry before it is deflated but I wait for fear of stale food or causing it to get compacted.


----------



## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Suew said:


> The crop only fills about halfway with food and the rest is air. Piji is starting to get the hang of the balloon/bottle method so I know that I am not pushing air in via a syringe(haven't used that at all). oh and the crop does deflate before the next feeding. Some times Piji acts hungry before it is deflated but I wait for fear of stale food or causing it to get compacted.


Looks like more air than food to me. (but my eye's are terrible and the pic is rather small)
Make sure the formula is not too thick. If its too thick, he can't suck it in and he'll get more air trying.
That's why I like the bottle method - his little beak fits right into the hole in the nipple, when you tilt the bottle and fill the nipple with formula it stops him from sucking air.


----------



## Suew (Sep 15, 2010)

I was worried that I was making the formula too thin, 1:6, formula:water. Piji does not stick his/her whole beak in the glove tip to eat maybe this is causing him/her to swallow air. When He/ She pushes his/her whole beak into the bottle he/she pulls back rapidly and seems to gasp for air. I just fed piji and half way through the feeding, I gently stroked the crop bottom to top and Piji "burped". i finished the feeding and by the end Piji's crop was bloated again. I repeated the same gentle strokes to no avail this time.


----------



## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Suew said:


> I was worried that I was making the formula too thin, *1:6.*, formula:water. Piji does not stick his/her whole beak in the glove tip to eat maybe this is causing him/her to swallow air. When He/ She pushes his/her whole beak into the bottle he/she pulls back rapidly and seems to gasp for air. I just fed piji and half way through the feeding, I gently stroked the crop bottom to top and Piji "burped". i finished the feeding and by the end Piji's crop was bloated again. I repeated the same gentle strokes to no avail this time.


The formula might be too thin....for newborns I usually do 1:3, slowly decreasing it to 1:2
And don't tilt the bottle too high so that it runs into his beak. You want it thin enough so that he can gently "suck" what he wants


----------



## Suew (Sep 15, 2010)

Thanks. I'll try that right now.


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

This is the actual link to the photo and it will appear in a bit larger size:

http://picasaweb.google.com/102618590613300821757/Piji#5517944284618577202

Terry


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

I had the pleasure of speaking with Suew on the phone today. She is doing a wonderful job with this little one. Let's all continue to help her as best we can with raising this tiny baby.

Terry


----------



## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

What a cutie  Sooo tiny!


----------



## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Yes, a real sweetie, if we can get him by a few more days, I know I will feel a lot better. How does he feel when you fist pick him up, in terms of his body warmth/temperature, from where you are keeping him?

Karyn


----------



## Suew (Sep 15, 2010)

I will feel better too. My thoughts are wheww, we made through the first 24 hours. thank you Jesus! Now lets get through the next couple of days. I think once we make it through the first two weeks I will feel much better. He is in a terry sock and shredded paper towel lined nest that is in a cubby of my sons drafting table in his room. I have a have a heat lamp that is situated 19 inches away from Piji's nest. There is a thermometer in the nest that stays between 95-103 degrees. There is a large cup of water next to the nest as well. I always make sure that I have warm hands when picking him up and he has never felt cool nor too warm. I have thickened his Kaytee from 1:6 to 1:3.5. It helped with the air in his crop but took a lot longer to empty. His defecation was sluggis too. So, I added 1/2:1/2:1 live active yogurt:apple sauce:kaytee powder. This has helped with his crop and digestion issue. After Piji eats I cup him in my hand and "preen" him he really seems to enjoy this.


----------



## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Suew said:


> I will feel better too. My thoughts are wheww, we made through the first 24 hours. thank you Jesus! Now lets get through the next couple of days. I think once we make it through the first two weeks I will feel much better. He is in a terry sock and shredded paper towel lined nest that is in a cubby of my sons drafting table in his room. I have a have a heat lamp that is situated 19 inches away from Piji's nest. There is a thermometer in the nest that stays between 95-103 degrees. There is a large cup of water next to the nest as well. I always make sure that I have warm hands when picking him up and he has never felt cool nor too warm. I have thickened his Kaytee from 1:6 to 1:3.5. It helped with the air in his crop but took a lot longer to empty. His defecation was sluggis too. So, I added 1/2:1/2:1 live active yogurt:apple sauce:kaytee powder. This has helped with his crop and digestion issue. After Piji eats I cup him in my hand and "preen" him he really seems to enjoy this.


Sounds like your doing a great job 
My only concern with heat lamps is that the babies don't get any darkness to sleep...that's why I prefer a heating pad. I keep them on a heating pad (covered) and have a light over them during the day, then I shut the light off at night. I always keep a small stuffed animal in with them to snuggle against, so they don't feel alone.
This is not an easy task and your doing a great job. I have 3 babies that I'm hand raising right now


----------



## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

My goodness, This is so interesting.

Just wanted to wish you the best of luck and keeping my fingers crossed as things progress.

Janet


----------



## Suew (Sep 15, 2010)

Thank you all for your knowledge, encouragement and support! You all are a great group of people!


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Glad to hear all is well today! Please keep us posted. Have you named this little one?

Terry


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

yes this is really "egg-sighting"... and interesting as well... good learning thread and so nice to know such a new hatchling can beat the odds...


----------



## Ede-bird (Jul 7, 2010)

I just found this thread today - I have been away for a couple of weeks - just one thing to say.....WELL DONE!!!!


----------



## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

maybe u can upload one more picture for us.  
its been few days 
the baby is completely white or? how is he doing?
any luck with other eggs?


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 3, 2006)

This was the other thread I was watching, hoping for updates. I hope all is well and you can update with pictures. I've never seen a tiny pigeon before.


----------



## Suew (Sep 15, 2010)

Wow! thank you all so much for the encouragement! The past few days have been pretty busy. I am working on uploading pic from my cell for you guys. Piji, that is what my son wanted to name him, is doing fantastic. He has almost tripled in size since he hatched and is eating between 10 & 15ml of Kaytee every 4-6 hrs. His eyes began to open yesterday and his skin has darkened considerably over the last few days. My Oldest daughter and I teach a weekly Caravan Scout class and have a bird badge, so we decided to postpone our botany badge and give our kiddos a chance to monitor Piji's growth. While it will be neat for them to learn and experience hand-raising a bird from nature, we are impressing the importance of leaving wild birds to be raised by their own bird parents. I will follow this with a pics only post.


----------



## Suew (Sep 15, 2010)

Growing, Growing, Growing. My three year old is so good at sitting still with her new friend.


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Oh My! Piji is getting so BIG! Terrific job you have done and are doing there! We LOVE pictures, so please keep 'em coming!

Terry


----------



## Suew (Sep 15, 2010)

Caravan Scouts learning.


----------



## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Sue, you have done a terrific job. Seeing him at the point he is now at, lets me breath a bit easier, with regards to him getting by the first days. Although we have a ways to go yet, you have done something not everyone could have managed, with success, for this little guy. Good going.

Karyn


----------



## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Oh, that is GREAT! What a little doll 
What you've done is not an easy task....it takes time, patience and a gentle hand.....Great Job!
Love the picture of your little one holding him in her hands....keep the pictures coming!


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

oh look! it is getting bigger!... super job!... your boys are so cute too.


----------



## BirdDogg10 (Aug 23, 2005)

I've been watching this thread for a while and learned a few things. Looks like your bird is doing well and is VERY cute! but one thing though I had read an article that for kids under the age of 5, handling hamsters, birds, etc... isn't the best idea since there's a risk of them putting their hands in their mouth after touching the pet and often times they pick up something. About the only pets that were considered 'safe' are dogs and cats. Fish are safe too since they're in water 24/7.

Just a heads up, have fun with your pigeon!

I watched one grow up from 5 days old and it was pleasant, almost like 4-H.


----------



## Squiggle Squab (Sep 23, 2010)

How's Piji going now?
I presume no more posts means all is well?
I'd love to see a photo of how Piji looks now!


----------

