# Animal Bite and Broken Wing



## DanceBiscuit (Jun 12, 2010)

Hey!

Trouper, the stringfooted pigeon was very happy to return to his flock today, and I hope to see him around once and a while. I watched them a bit and when a truck startled the group, I noticed that one bird didn't fly off: one wing was limp:

















Its an obvious animal attack, with two punctures, lots of swelling and bruising. The injury is concentrated in that one area.

Watery poop:









And birdie: apart from the damage mentionned, crop looks good, feet look good, and birdie has a fighting spirit.








Its standing straight now, this was the bird cowering when I first put him in the cage, but he's sitting pretty now. I have Viktor eating outside of the cage. I saw injured birdie eat a tiny bit.


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## Pawbla (Jan 6, 2009)

Can you get some antibiotics for him? Like clavamox or maybe just plain amoxicilin? It's very important.


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## Ivor (May 12, 2008)

Hi, like Paula said, it is very important to start with antibiotic as soon as possible, many birds don't survive after 24 hrs if they had been attack from other animals, I normally use Cipro also if you have a pain killer will be very helpful. Do you have medicine in your house or a place where you can get it?

Let us know Please.

Ivette


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

I'd PM Phil...he tends to be knowledgable on wing anatomy. If it is broken, the window of opportunity to set it properly is very short. Obviously, best path would be an x-ray at a vet so they can really see what's going on in there.

I know you have antibiotics, so it looks like it's time to break 'em out again !

So Trouper's foot seemed good to you ? That's welcome news.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi DB,



Have a look here -


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/35/Birdwing.svg/350px-Birdwing.svg.png


http://people.eku.edu/ritchisong/554images/Avian_wing_anatomy.jpg


-( or find a better Wing anatomy illustration on 'google' ) and see if you can decide what Bones are broken...where they are broken, and, the kind of break it is...cracked but intact, broken in half neatly, bronek jaggedly...etc.


Broas Spectrum Systemic Antibiotics, and, probably, Metronidazole would be good.


I can not determine much from the images...


But, if you slather all well with 'Neosporin' it will help things, soften dessications, and serve as a topical Antibiotic...pending getting the Wing stabalized and bound or as may be.


Let us know on the Bones in question?


Phil
Lv


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## DanceBiscuit (Jun 12, 2010)

Heres a great diagram:
http://cas.bellarmine.edu/tietjen/Laboratories/BirdSkeleton.gif

hoo boy,..
-Gave pidgey some amoxy, and put on some polysporin after taking the pictures
-the wing is disconnected from the body. Whether this is due to a broken scapula or what I dunno
-the wing is also broken somewhere in the humerus I believe, but its impossible to tell with the amount of swelling. The tip of the wing is pink, so its good to know that there's still circulation
-there's a green tinge to the swelling, and that whole joint won't move at all
-Overall, this poor thing needs help from pros...


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

The dark bluegreen coloring is biliverdin, the pigment that occurs in birds when there's bruising. It's not in and of itself a thing to worry about. The rest of that looks kinda' rough, though. There are some tendons that go through that one section between what amounts to the wrist and the shoulder that actually help extend the primary flights when the wing is stretched out--those may very well be damaged. However, the way the wing is hanging might very well mean that the humerus has been broken.










The most likely prognosis will be a bird that can't fly but that can live in a loft just fine--I've got several almost just like him (different original injuries, though), one with almost the same coloring, strangely enough...

Yeah, he needs antibiotics and you can use masking tape to kinda' support that wing for now, for what little good it will do. It's highly unlikely that even the world's best vet surgeon would be able to do anything more than add insult to injury to the local tissues there, though--can think of a few such cases.

Pidgey


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## DanceBiscuit (Jun 12, 2010)

There's absolutely no movement in that wing, and I think the clavicle is broken, the whole wing just 'floats'. Would it be best to have the entire wing amputated? As horrible as that sounds, wouldn't it be painful to have that dead weight pulling down?

He's completely fledged, I'll have to find someone able to take him in...

I just noticed a slight green tinge to the poop


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi DB,


Clean all well with say, some 50/50 Peroxide and Water mix...soak everything there well.


Look and 'feel' closely for where any Broken Bones may be.


Gently test the folding of the Wing, to see if it may assume a normal position, and, in doing so, both imagine and literally feel, for how the Broken Bone is lining up and or if it has it's ends together, and is straight.

Consider this with regard to how the Wing then might be stabalized, in order for the Bones to mend.


Since there is also superficial injury, this of course also needs to be respected, in the manner of the Wing being 'set', especially if the superficial injury will need further or intermittent attentions, while the Bones are held in position for them to mend.

So, sluice out everything well with the Peroxide Solution...see what punctures you can find, clean out any foreign matter, and irrigate any punctures or other wounds deeply with a Syringe tip and the same solution, removing any scabs found on Punctures of course, to be able to do so. Other scabs can be left alone.

Determine what if any Bones are in fact Broken, and, how they are broken, in order to invision how they can be stabalized in the manner of Taping the Wing.


Generally, or when I do it, I tape the Wing deferentially as a 'unit' unto itself...making some order of 'X' pattern in effect with how the Tape wraps around it.


Then, details depending, the Taped Wing as-a-unit, I will tape gently to the Body, using some soft padding between the Wing and Body, arranging the thickness of the padding, in order to secure a position and stability which respects the way the Broken Bones need to be brought together, so any ends are in fact brought together, and, so the Bones are straight also.

One does not want to Tape a Wing to the Body in a way where the pressure of the Tape will be bending the area where one wanted the Bones to be straight and bright together, nor to impeded circulation, nor to have the Wing in an un-natural compression in any manner.




I tape the ( already taped unto itself ) Wing to the Body lightly...in a way which supports it's weight, so it does not hang or droop in any way which would compromise how the Bone-ends or Bones need to be.


Now, this can easily take me close to an hour to do or to arrive at. Sometimes much less, sometimes much more.

It is nice when one can get it 'right' the first time, but for me anyway, this is not always so..and I may have to strat over again more than one time to get it.

So, think carefully, plan carefully, and expect to proceed with the appreciation that more than one try might be necessary.


Is the armpit skin torn? Or?


I seem to be terrible at understanding the details of injury images usually.


Anyway, clean all well with the disinfectent solution...look for punctures, and examine and sluice them out well...experiment to find how the Wing needs to be secured, in order for the Bones to be aligned and brought together...


Metronidazole...and, your Antibiotic...Orally both...should do well for this.


Just before securing the Wing, go ahead and liberally slather and rub 'in' the 'Polyspoirin', into any areas which will then become concealed or impossible to get to, once the Wing is wrapped and secured....of course.


Good luck!!


Phil
Lv


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

DanceBiscuit said:


> There's absolutely no movement in that wing, and I think the clavicle is broken, the whole wing just 'floats'.



Well...broken Humerus will tend to occasion a limp Wing which does not get moved much...




> Would it be best to have the entire wing amputated?




No...


Just run through it all another dozen times or so...get your 'Mental Model' constructed...and, proceed patiently...




> As horrible as that sounds, wouldn't it be painful to have that dead weight pulling down?



I imagine his situation is painful...


He is brave, and stoic, and willing to have you do some things to tidy up his wounds and to get the Wing arranges for it to heal.

Explain everything to him, Eye to Eye, show him the Tape, and whatever else.



> He's completely fledged,




Yes...this is an adult...might be two, five, or fifteen years old.




> I'll have to find someone able to take him in...



No one is going to take him in ( unless to euthenize him)...no one wants these kinds of 'projects', unless they are into it...and, almost no one is into it, so, kinda just leaves you I think.

I have had many ghastly Wing and other injury ones.


It is a lot to consider all at once.

Take your time...think things out...be methodical, be pedantic...brood...reherse...lay it all out in your mind or on paper as well...one step at a time...





> I just noticed a slight green tinge to the poop




Images?


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## trinity (May 18, 2007)

I would not suggest amputation as they are not humans. Please let the wing heal on its own and feel it may not be able to fly in the future and that it will need your help for feed and shelter all life long. so just give some antibiotics and leave the wing to heal on its own. Add some pain killers if you are sure or get it from a vet.


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## DanceBiscuit (Jun 12, 2010)

I just put him back into his cage after cleaning him up, and he's pretty frazzled from the handling. I will take pictures tomorrow.

That bite looks at least a day or two old, eh? everything is dry, even the bite marks are healed in such a way that there's no scab, its very odd...

EDIT: Trinity: the vet I went to isn't very sympathetic. It seems the only place I can get proper help is through the wildlife center. Right now I am unable to care for a feral bird for its whole life since I live in a basement apartment and there's no chance of me making a coop and whatnot. I don't think its fair to a feral to be stressed living indoors for its life...
...are there no pigeon-talk members from the greater Toronto area apart from me? i've had no luck tracking them...


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

DanceBiscuit said:


> I just put him back into his cage after cleaning him up, and he's pretty frazzled from the handling. I will take pictures tomorrow.



Okay...



> That bite looks at least a day or two old, eh? everything is dry, even the bite marks are healed in such a way that there's no scab, its very odd...



Wound is some days old...maybe more...hard to guess.


I do not understand your reference of bite marks being 'healed' though.



> EDIT: Trinity: the vet I went to isn't very sympathetic. It seems the only place I can get proper help is through the wildlife center. Right now I am unable to care for a feral bird for its whole life since I live in a basement apartment and there's no chance of me making a coop and whatnot. I don't think its fair to a feral to be stressed living indoors for its life...
> ...are there no pigeon-talk members from the greater Toronto area apart from me? i've had no luck tracking them...



It is extremely difficult or unlikely to find anyone able and willing to care for injured Pigeons, or, for the healthy long since mended Handicapped ones, other than, that some people elect to do so, but, what I mean is, in your area, even with your limited experience so far, as far as these Birds you are finding goes, you are probably about it.

How to deal with non-releaseables, as time goes on, is a related, if secondary issue to the question of how when found in exigency and woe, and if one can help them, then, one tends to do that, and, somehow works out the rest.


Non-Releaseables can and do find entirely happy Lives living indoors, and, there are ways one may provide amenity to enhance and support their domestic and indoor confines of experience.


My own solution, was to simplify my living Quarters to be easy to clean, and, Bird friendly.

I have had quite a few non-releaseables, including many 'floor Birds' ( non-flying non-releaseables ) for years now, and, we all adapt to eachother in various ways...

I learned to walk without raising my Feet ( so if a backward scooting MMPV 'Peek-a-Boo' Bird suddenly dives into where my foot is about to step, I thusly do not 'step' on them, but, they glance off my floor-hugging foot, instead.

Lots of little habits...

Various of these remain VERY 'wild' and non-sociable to me if satisfied to see me literally step over them or around them, or, to see me be a foot away from where they are perching, but, they do not wish to be touched or handled...others, become friendly or even friends over time, presenting themselves for companionship as I sit and read, and or enjoying being held and visited with.

Once one actually lives with them literally, one has a chance to learn and understand a great deal more than one ever would otherwise...if one is amenible.

This deepens the perception and profundity, of recognising their individuality and character as individuals, whether seeing them in the out of doors, or, being with the one's who share one's home.

It never occurred to me to build a coop or anything else to sequester them.

Or, if I were, it would only be one which allowed a safe outdoor foray for them as they please, to get Sunshine or Rain, communicating to an indoor setting, where, I would live also...they could elect to be in one part or the other as their mood or interest inclines.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I've got three living in the house right now, actually. They get their time out of the cage and beg to be petted just like any other pet. Nothing like a good skritching...

Yes, it usually takes something on the order of two days for that much biliverdin to accumulate and a few days for it to go away.

Pidgey


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

MR. Squeaks had to have half his wing amputated. Despite the care trying to save the wing, it just wouldn't heal. Once amputated, Squeaks became a much happier pigeon!

His home is a small animal cage: 30" L x 21" W x 23" H. He also has the run of the apartment whenever possible. 

Hope this information helps and if you really can't keep him, I sure hope you can find a home!

Sending all my BEST with

Love and Hugs

Shi


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## DanceBiscuit (Jun 12, 2010)

I'll be back soon but first a quick question: would clipping its wings help? both clipping the flights so he doesn't keep flapping/spinning out of control and almost completely 'shaving' the broken wing and area to get a better look?

And is there any way to get rid of the swelling a bit so I can see whats going on?


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

DanceBiscuit.......Please do not misunderstand what I am about to say. I know you are doing your very best and you have done so much with all the birds you have saved recently, but as you said in one of your first post about this bird....."this needs to be handled by the pros"

I don't know what your personal situation is, however this birds injuries seem severe and I really think this bird needs to be seen by a Vet.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

That'd be nice...if the Pigeon could be evaluated in detail, in person, by an experienced, competent, honest, practical, reasonable, genuinely interested, Avian Veterinarian.

That's just mighty hard to find...

And, they are often not only expensive, but, mistaken in significant ways, in their analysis and prognosis, anyway.


Maybe some additional images would help for me anyway, for trying to understand just what is injured here and how-so.

Images where enough of the Bird is in the frame, for me to be able to tell where things are.

Seeing abstractions, I can not tell the location or orientation usually.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

DanceBiscuit said:


> I'll be back soon but first a quick question: would clipping its wings help? both clipping the flights so he doesn't keep flapping/spinning out of control and almost completely 'shaving' the broken wing and area to get a better look?
> 
> And is there any way to get rid of the swelling a bit so I can see whats going on?



Hi DB, 


No...'clipping' would not be good for this.

There is no practical way to reduce the swelling for now. But, the swelling needs to be defered to in how the Wing is to be 'set' and stabalized, since swelling can impede circulation.


Did you read my prior missives on evaluating and possibly 'setting' the Wing?



Phil
Lv


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## DanceBiscuit (Jun 12, 2010)

Hi Phil,

I'm unable to set the wing because the swelling and damage doesn't allow the joint to move(pictures to follow after posting). the entire wing isn't connecting to the body, as though the clavicle is broken or whatnot. Again, because of swelling and bruising, theres no way to really tell.

When I had the PPMV pigeon, I called around and the only place that would see birds was the vet that sees my rats, but does not accept ferrals(pet vets aren't allowed to see ferral animals) my only hope is the wildife center...


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

DanceBiscuit said:


> Hi Phil,
> 
> I'm unable to set the wing because the swelling and damage doesn't allow the joint to move(pictures to follow after posting). the entire wing isn't connecting to the body, as though the clavicle is broken or whatnot. Again, because of swelling and bruising, theres no way to really tell.
> 
> When I had the PPMV pigeon, I called around and the only place that would see birds was the vet that sees my rats, but does not accept ferrals(pet vets aren't allowed to see ferral animals) my only hope is the wildife center...




I think you may mean the Humerus.


If the Humerus is broken, ( we would need to know roughtly where it is broken, also ) the Wing is then being held by some Tendons, and Muscle and Skin, which will make it seem rather dis-connected.


Can you describe please where the injury is? which joint you observe that is effected?

Refering to the Diagramme you had elected and provided the link to?


Are there more than one injury location of the Wing?



Anyway, most Vets, most avian Vets, and general purpose rehabbers, would likely be little to no better than you for managing this...and, many would not be as good as you...and or they would not even bother doing it badly, unless getting paid some big dough.


I hate to say that, and I am not trying to pressure you...but, jus' saying...that such is the sorry truth.


We would like to think they would be experts and excellent, but, very very few are, very few are even passably 'good', when it comes to Wings ( and lots of other things also).


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## DanceBiscuit (Jun 12, 2010)

Here are some pictures. The humerus is definitely broken, but theres no knowing the extent of the damage without an xray or more experience. I can't tell the location specifically because of the swelling.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi DB, 



Oh, okay...these images worked for me.


I think he flew into something...this would be consistent anyway, with a flying incident even if possible for a preditory incident...but, no matter.

The idea, is to stabalize the Wing, in such a way, where you are ensuring that the ends of the Bone are brought together, and, that the length of the Bone is aligned.

I understand that this is difficult to do when swelling and other inconvenient conditions are present.

It may also mean, that if the Bone is brought together nicely, the Wing might be in a little different position than the Other Wing, because of the localized swelling.

Hence, an initial stabilization arrangement, would be to defer to the actual condition of the Bone...and, not to the Wing as a whole per se.

Immediately prior to making such a stabilization, one would slather the Wound with a good amount of 'Neosporin' or it's like, and, then proceed to wrap the Wing itself in some 'X' Wrappings, and, then, with some folded paper Towel or other padding, decide how the Wing needs to be against the Body, and, to tape it then, taping around the Body, and, in a way which permits the Wing to enjoy the correct position it needs, for the Bone alignment and ends-together, which is necessary for it to mend.


This can be re-done in some days to respect how the swelling has diminished, and, redone again at some point similarly, since that is how it is with these injuries.


Is this difficult?


Yes...


Now, something I forgot to ask...

Are the Bone ends visible? Have they been sticking out into the Air?
Or, is the wound we see, however deep, mechanically seperated from the Bone break you can tell is there?


If you had a good Avian Vet, I would indeed wish for you to go see him or her.


Given that you would have to rely on an iffy situation of the rescue rehab or whatever it is...if you could communicate with them, even have them see the Pigeon, and then find out what they are willing to do ( sutures, or whatever ) then, I'd say go for it...but I would be very leery if they were unwilling to treat and let you walk with the Pigeon.

If they have some deal where they insist to keep it, I would worry about them botching it or worse.


If they can suture the injury, and, correctly 'set' the Wing, they might botch the 'set', and you might have to redo it...but, none the less, if they are interested and good sports, see what they can offer...and decide from there.


If the Humerus is neatly brokwn in mid length...this could end up wioth a very good resolution, and, he might even fly alright once all is said and done.

If it is broken close to the end, close to a Joint, the resolution is less likely to be as good, but, still might not be too bad...though sometimes these can 'fuse' and eventuate in a 'frozen Wing'.

If it is set, and the ends are brought together well, and no necrosis has been going on, even if it a little off in align, it can still be not too bad for a final outcome.



Phil
Lv


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

DanceBiscuit said:


> Hi Phil,
> 
> I'm unable to set the wing because the swelling and damage doesn't allow the joint to move(pictures to follow after posting). the entire wing isn't connecting to the body, as though the clavicle is broken or whatnot. Again, because of swelling and bruising, theres no way to really tell.
> 
> When I had the PPMV pigeon, I called around and the only place that would see birds was the vet that sees my rats, but does not accept ferrals(pet vets aren't allowed to see ferral animals) my only hope is the wildife center...


Go here, join, and scroll down to "Matilda's List" - it's a listing of all vets/facilities which treat pigeons, filed by state, geographical region, and country:

http://www.pigeonangels.com/

My only thought would be...can you just claim that he's a Homing pigeon in training and got lost/found on a trial flight ?

If you need a band to throw on him, I think Foys and Jedds sells 'em or I can mail one to you.

But I really do have to agree with LWerden: this injury is really very serious. I fear that any home-remedy will, at best result in a compromised scar-tissue type healing with possibly future complications...and at worst...something worse.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Well, as I see it, any Wildlife Center will almost certainly put this bird to sleep, so that leaves two choices really where this bird's life will not be shortly ended. The first is to claim that this bird is your pet, as Jaye suggests, and was injured by another of your pets, as Dahllia (Cindy) recently did when she took in her rescue, where she said her cat attacked the bird or trying to manage the best you can on your own. You have two of the best here in Phil and Pidgey to help you, some professional help from someone who truly knows what they are doing with regards to birds would be great, if only for to help with assessment, here are a couple of links to avian specialists in your area. The main issue I see with this is cost, I would think that initial assessment at $50-75, x-rays @ $75-150, wing setting @ $75-$150 and any kind of surgical procedures (with Pidgey feels may only add insult to injury) in the hundreds. So if money (don't in any way feel bad or guilty about this, as things are tough out here) prohibits getting professional help and the free professional help will lead to PTS, it may leave you to manage the best you can.

http://www.aav.org/search/results.php?filter=province&q=Ontario
http://www.parrotplace.ca/avian_vet.htm

Karyn


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## DanceBiscuit (Jun 12, 2010)

Right now I'm quite financially strapped: I'm working my bum off at a thankless minimum wage job and just 'lost' a few hundred dollars to dental appointments and the making of a night guard(I grind/clench my teeth at night, -lots of damage and pain) I'll go over my budget, but money is a real issue for me since I don't have medical coverage and, like I said, dentist, and my meds.

Thank you SO much for the web links, I'll go through them...

...perhaps I could get a band and claim that it was a young homer that the owner doesn't want returned/would just put it down? 

If it wasn't for the wing, you wouldn't think there was anything wrong with him, the pigeon is very lively, alert and social.

From what I can see, there is no bone protruding, just massive damage to the tendons and the bone that is just broken 'internally'. Nothing is jutting out.

I will reply in more detail after I get laundry started(working 6 days this week, gotta make this one day off count)


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

DanceBiscuit said:


> ...perhaps I could get a band and claim that it was a young homer that the owner doesn't want returned/would just put it down?


Well, to go to a vet you really don't need a band, just to make the claim the bird is a pet, lots of people, including myself, have unbanded pigeons as pets and I have never had a problem receiving treatment for them (although in your case a reasonable explanation for the injury; one of your other pets did it, would be appropriate). If you take a banded bird to a Wildlife Center they would not be able to treat it, as the band would mean the bird is someones property, they can only treat wildlife (IE: birds/animals that are not someone's property) and either take the bird in to be transfered to your local SPCA or direct you to take it there yourself. Where of course, since the bird is not truly someones property and is unwanted and badly injured, it would be PTS. I wish there were better options to suggest for you and like I said, things are tight all around out here, so don't take than on.

Karyn


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## DanceBiscuit (Jun 12, 2010)

Its just a frustrating situation. I release Trouper and RIGHT there at the release site was this flightless bird. Helping this bird was the only thing on my mind. It isn't in my nature to see this bird and leave it because of monetary issues. I will seek professional help for this guy, I just have to be careful about the amount I spend.

While on the subject: I'm going to be ordering 0.5% Ivermectin to deal with bugs(and possibility of internal parasites) for the whole lot. Is there anything else that I should have on hand since I'm putting the order in?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

DanceBiscuit, your kind heart will be rewarded someday.

If I had to make a short list of meds to have on hand they would be Baytril (Enrofloxacin), Metronidazole, TMS (Trimethoprim/Sulfa, you have the Triple Sulfa which is not that far from this) Medistatin (Nystatin) and Ivermectin. With these five meds you will be able to treat for a large majority of common infections these guys come down with. If you wanted to add one more, it would be Doxycycline.

Karyn


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi DB,



Get 'Moxidectin Plus' ( for Worming and related )...cost is the same, and it is better, and covers more specific parasites.



Call those Vets on the List and talk with the receptionists.

Some Vets WILL treat Wild Birds for free, or for a small fee, IF..."IF" the Care Giver comes across as being together and dedicated and committed to managing the recovery process themselves.

Try calling, you miught get lucky and find a Vet who does this.

If the Vet is experienced and had a good mind, no X-Ray would be called for.


at a glance - there needs to be some debriding...some pre-emptive sterilization...m-a-y-b-e some Sutures ( if the lips are not too thickened and non-elastic) and, for the Wing to be 'set' into a first phase stabilization, which will almost certainly need to be re-done in a week or less, and or re-done again even in twelve days or so, but, hard to say.

It has to be evaluated as things go.


Otherwise yes, this appears to be a healthy, bright Pigeon, who just happened to have had a bad flying mis-adventure of some kind, at fairly high speed to boot.


Done right, the Wing might mend well enough for him to fly again...and we wil not know till much later...months later possibly.


Some of mine, once out of the Bandages...are 'floor Birds' for quite a while, then, they begin tentative low flyings, and from there, end up who knows, some, so good you would never know anything ever happened, others, fly well enough to get say, onto a Book Case top, or, Table Top.


I have one with half-a-Wing, who by golly, "Flies" well enough to go from the floor to a Table Top.

And no one, including me, would have ever thought that possible!


Lol...


So, keep yer Eye on the Ball...and, like in Golf, 'follow through' is important.


Phil
Las Vegas


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## DanceBiscuit (Jun 12, 2010)

Ok, calls have been made, and it will cost 80-84$ for the initial checkup, neither vet has time to see him before tuesday.  I called the wildlife center in hopes of getting more information about their process and whatnot, but I have to leave a message for them to call me back and I don't feel comfortable giving my information.

Other than that, he's been acting quite normal despite injury, he's quite the trooper(as are all pigeons by the looks of it)


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Thanks for the update, please keep us informed of developments.

Karyn


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Keep calling around...


All in all, it'd be really good if you could find a 'good' Vet ( verses, the usual, impersonal mechanized, bluffing scammers ) for now and for the future.

See if there are any Bird Societies, Finch Clubs, Parrot Clubs, Pigeon Breeders or Racers, etc, in your area, contact them, see who they like.

I always think back on the scene from the film 'Barton Fink', when 'Mad Man Muntz' went to see the Ear Doctor.


I wish he were more universally emulated!! ( Muntz I mean...not the 'doctor'...)


Lol...


If he were, doctors of all sorts might become a lot more reasonable.


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## DanceBiscuit (Jun 12, 2010)

HAPPY UPDATE TIME!!

For better or worse, the gashes in the wing are healing up very well, and the swelling has gone down considerably. Pin feathers are now showing, and the bird is much more active, and starting to do the growl& feather twitching thing(being territorial?) which has to be good, too. Overall more energy and interest in the other birds and the surroundings. I have two days off work starting tomorrow, so I'll be finally getting in touch with the wildlife center and will see if they'd be willing to check the bird out while allowing me to care for it.


















I also recently noticed a bump on the lower beak.(I had trouble 'catching' it in a picture, but its there) I did a bit of searching and saw that in an old p-t post someone suggested putting iodine on it(hence the feather/skin discolouration in the photo. Is this something that could be 'caught' by the other birds?


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi DB,



Have a good look into the inside of the lower Beak...


Very glad to hear she is healing up and feeling pretty alright..!

Have you been supporting the Wing in some way?


Any idea how the Bone you took to be broken, how it is doing?

Is it still loose and not -aligned/set? Or..?


Did you call around to Parrot Societies etc, to see if the had anyone they could recommend? 

Even a Lay person of course, would be great, if they knew their stuff.

Images of the poops/urates?



Phil
Lv


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## DanceBiscuit (Jun 12, 2010)

The inside of the bottom beak doesn't look unusual. Just healthy pink and symmetrical.

There's a large hard bump where the yellow discolouration is on the wing. I'm guessing this is where the injury truly is(along the humerus, closer to the body). I tried to tape and secure the wing to his body, then the wing itself to his tail(saw it done on some website) but with each he'd struggle against them and Houdini out of most, and/or getting feet caught in whatever I had on him and would end up tumbling around, so unfortunately there's nothing supporting the wing at this time. 

I'll be more thorough tomorrow, I'm exhausted from work and a family crisis.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi DB,



Indeed...some Pigeons when having a Bandaged or 'set' Wing, will reach up and jam a Foot up into the wrap, and ruin it, as well as getting their Foot stuck, pushing for all they are worth, where they then lay on their side sheepishly with the Foot pushing into the then ruined wrapping job.


This used to drive me nuts...having to re-do a tedious Wing set/wrap for the umpteenth time, only to see them ruin it in five seconds.


I finally solved the problem by having them wear a 'Shoe' on the offending Foot, very like the Orthopaedic/Diorthotic "Shoe" one does for String Feet Thumb issues sometimes....and, the Shoe then prevents the Foot from jamming and pushing against the Bandage/Wrap/Tape of the Wing.


Be best if you can come as close as you can, how ever you can, to getting those Bone ends brought together, and, for them to be in a good align... and for them to stay 'set' that way, for a couple Weeks..!


PITA I know...

"Pennance" for bring them Home!!!


Lol...


Phil
Lv


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

I dunno what the deal is there on the Beak.

Resembles a subsided infection, which can have a yellowish powdery aspect sometimes.

Just keep an Eye on it, and see if it diminishes or not.


If not, there's some things you can try, and we can go over them soon.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

pdpbison said:


> I dunno what the deal is there on the Beak.
> 
> Resembles a subsided infection, *which can have a yellowish powdery aspect sometimes.*
> 
> ...


Hi Phil....I think that yellowish coloration is due to the _iodine_ that DanceBiscuit used...not from the pigeon...

Love and Hugs
Shi


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Ohhhhh!!!

Eye-Uh-Dine...


I forgot about that...


If this is just a little 'bump' under the Beak which is smooth and continuous with the Kerotin layers appearing to have formed that way, rather than an injury or 'rising' or eruption from below and hence structurally discontinuous...and there is no detectible lesion or issue inside the Beak...

I'd just assume it is a little anomaly of how the Beak grew or maintains itself, and not worry about it.


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## DanceBiscuit (Jun 12, 2010)

I've taken new pictures of the wing(to be posted after I eat).
The bump is approx the size of a marble, my guess is that its an infection. I'm no longer sure if the bone is broken, but if it is, the break is somewhere in there. The big gash is healing up well, but the tendon is stiff as one would expect after being damaged/exposed.

I still haven't heard back from the parrot sanctuary regarding vets, I think I'll contact the wildlife center and be very clear that this is my rescue....


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## DanceBiscuit (Jun 12, 2010)

Pictures!
Its really tricky to see the bump, so I circled the approx. area on both sides of the wing. When I press on it a bit it has some give, but is pretty firm:


















and a cute candid photo(even Crixus isn't able to look that grumpy)


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

You should be able to feel the Humerus between your finger tips pads...or, to see it through the Skin.


Do not be extending the Wing now.


Localized swelling would be normal for a cracked or broken Bone and or for the immediately surrounding tissue.


It almost looks as if the Humerus is visible through-the-skin in the first image...and if so, it appears to be broken and a shallow 'v' shaped instead of straight...but, I could not be sure if this is what I was seeing.

If it is, and if it can still be 'set' in a way where it is straight, and aligned and the ends brought together, it can probably heal well, and his chances of flying again, would be pretty good.


Please see what you can do.

If it is beginning to fuse in a 'V', at some point it will no longer be able to be set correctly.


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