# New and slightly confused



## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

Okay...despite previously getting in a "thread fight," I am new to this group and to pigeon keeping. I have received a lot of conflicting advice from various pigeon people and from the internet. We purchased two breeding pairs of Birmingham Rollers this past Saturday, June 26th. The seller also threw in two young birds. One is maybe a male, as he is starting to strut and coo. He is maybe four months old, and has been flown by the seller. The other is of undetermined sex, around one month old (still has some pinfeathers on his neck and head.) The seller told us that we could fly the two young birds after we have them for a month. Is this true of the one that was previously flown? I'm afraid that he is going to do what a good homing pigeon does, and go back to his home loft (which is about twenty-five miles away). Can he be flown, or must I keep him inside as a breeder.

Also, one of the females laid an egg this afternoon. She laid it in the middle of the cage despite the four nesting boxes with nest bowls. Her mate had previously lined two of the bowls with hay, but she didn't seem to get the idea. Before I could retrieve the egg and put it in a nest box, the two adult males started a row, and in the process broke the egg. I understand that she should lay another egg tomorrow, but will they incubate one egg by itself?

I'm sure I'll have dozens of more questions over the next few weeks, and will be happy to accept any advice - regardless of the poster's credentials


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

This is more conflicting advice. When I first started researching the topic, I was told that ALL pigeons are homing pigeons. That it was just different degrees of homing instinct. I'm guessing that 25 miles is a bit far for the rollers to fly, but I don't want to take any chances.

You also say three months...I was told thirty days by the seller, who has been raising pigeons for fifty years. Another breeder I spoke with told me that the pigeons will NEVER consider my loft to be their home loft, and will take off if ever let out. Yet another breeder told me that after the birds raised young, we could then let them fly. This is all very confusing, and hopefully we can straighten it all out.

The two males that caused trouble were from the mated pairs. I was told that these four birds were all hatched in the fall of 2009, which would make them an appropriate age to mate and raise young. I temporarily have the two young birds in the same coop as the two pairs. I am in the process of building a "flying coop" for the young birds and for other young birds that I will be picking up this weekend. I am modeling it after the flying coops that the seller of our birds had.


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Birmingham Rollers have very little homing ability.They should stay at your loft after they learn where the feed is. Just don't take them away from the loft. Just let them out. And Hawks LOVE to get ROLLERS. So maybe keep your breeders in.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

ptras said:


> This is more conflicting advice. When I first started researching the topic,* I was told that ALL pigeons are homing pigeons. That it was just different degrees of homing instinct.* I'm guessing that 25 miles is a bit far for the rollers to fly, but I don't want to take any chances.
> 
> You also say three months...I was told thirty days by the seller, who has been raising pigeons for fifty years. Another breeder I spoke with told me that the pigeons will NEVER consider my loft to be their home loft, and will take off if ever let out. Yet another breeder told me that after the birds raised young, we could then let them fly. This is all very confusing, and hopefully we can straighten it all out.


As far as homing ability goes, homers, of course do have better homing ability than other pigeons, as that's what they were bred for. But lots of other breeds of pigeons do have some homing ability. Of course, there are some fancies that would probably get lost if released next door. As far as letting out a roller that was flown, I don't know enough about the time period, but 3 months sounds a lot safer than a month. It would be better for them and for you, to let them get comfortable in their new home before letting them breed. Good luck with your new birds though.


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## Guest (Jul 1, 2010)

sky tx said:


> Birmingham Rollers have very little homing ability.They should stay at your loft after they learn where the feed is. Just don't take them away from the loft. Just let them out. And Hawks LOVE to get ROLLERS. So maybe keep your breeders in.


sky tx is right, the rollers breed are not a breed for tossing from down the road , if you did any research at all on the web or thru books you would have found that out sounds like you are talking to the wrong people lol they are just for flying around ones loft and even then if they fly to far off they can easily get lost ... homers are a breed and they are bred to come home to where they were born from many miles away .. rollers can be bred anywhere and still be flown at any loft once settled in for a few weeks  

p.s. trap train them like young birds just to help them learn the way into their new loft too, it will help in the long run for sure .


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

LokotaLoft said:


> sky tx is right, the rollers breed are not a breed for tossing from down the road , if you did any research at all on the web or thru books you would have found that out sounds like you are talking to the wrong people lol they are just for flying around ones loft and even then if they fly to far off they can easily get lost ... homers are a breed and they are bred to come home to where they were born from many miles away .. rollers can be bred anywhere and still be flown at any loft once settled in for a few weeks
> 
> p.s. trap train them like young birds just to help them learn the way into their new loft too, it will help in the long run for sure .


I have read all that I could find on the subject, spoken to everyone I can speak to, and coasted the web for weeks before we ever bought the pigeons. Unfortunately, Ive found that many people give their opinions as facts on pigeon raising. That is why I'm posting here...trying to sort through all of the information to decide what is correct.


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## Guest (Jul 1, 2010)

ptras said:


> I have read all that I could find on the subject, spoken to everyone I can speak to, and coasted the web for weeks before we ever bought the pigeons. Unfortunately, Ive found that many people give their opinions as facts on pigeon raising. That is why I'm posting here...trying to sort through all of the information to decide what is correct.


there was a great roller pigeon guy from hawaii, if I could only remember his name I would start by asking him any details you wanted because not only did he have awesome birds but he new his stuff and loved to share .. does anyone remember his name ??? I think his name on here was bigislerollers you might want to shoot him an email since he hasnt been around here in a long time ..he really knows his birds he even had videos on youtube under the same name ..good luck .


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

A lot of pigeon sellers are nothing more than Feather Merchants--Tell you anything to get your money.


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## Guest (Jul 1, 2010)

sky tx said:


> A lot of pigeon sellers are nothing more than Feather Merchants--Tell you anything to get your money.


exactly .. just like when homing pigeon merchants tell people they can settle the older birds to their lofts and when they let them out they fly back to the guy that sold them the birds so they can sell them again


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

spirit wings said:


> well if he has been raising rollers for 50 years, then go with what he says if you think it is correct. I know pigeons do not like change so the longer they are kept up and given time to settle in the better. I do know rollers are not homing pigeons. get the single birds out of the breeding area before you let anything hatch.


My "flying coop" is underway, and will be finished by Saturday. Saturday afternoon, we are picking up two additional young birds that haven't yet been flown. We also have an arrangement to pick up another mated pair (with eggs) on Thursday. That is a pair of racing homers that are being adopted by us. Do I need to maintain separate quarters for the homers and the rollers?

If pigeon keeping is as popular with my family as it appears it will be, I have plans to turn a clubhouse I built that the kids no longer use into our own little pigeon house. It is 8' x 10', with a shed roof. There is a 3' x 8' "front porch" which I can screen. BP (before pigeons) I was planning on removing it at the end of the summer


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## Guest (Jul 1, 2010)

ptras said:


> My "flying coop" is underway, and will be finished by Saturday. Saturday afternoon, we are picking up two additional young birds that haven't yet been flown. We also have an arrangement to pick up another mated pair (with eggs) on Thursday. That is a pair of racing homers that are being adopted by us. Do I need to maintain separate quarters for the homers and the rollers?
> 
> If pigeon keeping is as popular with my family as it appears it will be, I have plans to turn a clubhouse I built that the kids no longer use into our own little pigeon house. It is 8' x 10', with a shed roof. There is a 3' x 8' "front porch" which I can screen. BP (before pigeons) I was planning on removing it at the end of the summer


well you can keep them together but just keep a watch over them as homers are bigger then rollers and they can pick on them, but I dont think if you have enuf room there will be a problem keeping the two together .. now that pair with eggs isnt going to happen cuz once you move the eggs that pair will no longer sit on them again.. they dont like when their nest is moved and dont recognize it once its not where they put it .


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Yes --keep the Rollers and Homers separated--you DON"T want them to cross breed--you only RUIN both the rollers-rolling and the homers homing.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

spirit wings said:


> if the two youg birds are rollers it really does not matter if they have or have not been flown, rollers can be settled to your loft. the homers can not be flown as they may take off to their old loft. so they need to be kept secure so they do not get out, which can be a problem if your flying and trapping rollers and as Lakota said the eggs would be tossed as they will not sit them at the new place.


The racing homer pair are also young birds (five months) that have never been flown. They just laid their first egg today, and I will be picking them up next Thursday. Given that they've never been flown, can I fly them with my rollers? I'll contact the person who is adopting out the homers and let them know about the eggs.

I was planning on keeping the homer pair with my other mated pairs. Is that likely to be problematic?


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## Guest (Jul 1, 2010)

ptras said:


> The racing homer pair are also young birds (five months) that have never been flown. They just laid their first egg today, and I will be picking them up next Thursday. Given that they've never been flown, can I fly them with my rollers? I'll contact the person who is adopting out the homers and let them know about the eggs.


they are already to old to settle into your loft, but if you live close to the person selling them if they fly back home you can always go there and get them .. the fact that they already layed eggs there is a good sign thou that they will always try to get back home if they are good homers


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

spirit wings said:


> there is a member here, that sold a young bird(homer) ready to settle to the new loft, sold it at the right age to settle, the person who bought it, let it out for the first time after trap training..guess what, it flew 60 miles back to its home loft, never been flown.. that was a good homer though and not typical for a young bird, so no you can not fly these homers. but of course you can go get them as Lakota has said if they do go back there which they may well do if that is their true hatch home or settled home, that is if the old loft is close, but who wants to keep doing that. the homer pair can be housed with the breeding rollers, as none of the breeders well be let out anyway because they are on eggs or babies.


I'm in Southeast Massachusetts, and we are adopting them from Northern New Hampshire...about a four hour ride. I think we'll just keep them in as breeders. Okay to fly their offspring?


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## Guest (Jul 1, 2010)

ptras said:


> I'm in Southeast Massachusetts, and we are adopting them from Northern New Hampshire...about a four hour ride. I think we'll just keep them in as breeders. Okay to fly their offspring?


I think that would be best and the fact that they are already laying now you should get them to set again on eggs within 3 weeks of being in the new loft so you will be well on your way to flyers in no time at all .. once they start laying it will be hard to get them to ever stop again so you will be having pigeons coming out your ears for training soon enuf trust me lol


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

LokotaLoft said:


> I think that would be best and the fact that they are already laying now you should get them to set again on eggs within 3 weeks of being in the new loft so you will be well on your way to flyers in no time at all .. once they start laying it will be hard to get them to ever stop again so you will be having pigeons coming out your ears for training soon enuf trust me lol


The guy who sold us the rollers told us the same thing. He has over 250 birds in two large lofts, and two flying coops. I could tell how committed he is to the pigeons, because he obviously didn't want to let many of them go. My wife had to sweet talk him to get the two pairs we bought. His oldest pigeon is twenty years old - he's had it for nineteen years!


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## Guest (Jul 1, 2010)

ptras said:


> The guy who sold us the rollers told us the same thing. He has over 250 birds in two large lofts, and two flying coops. I could tell how committed he is to the pigeons, because he obviously didn't want to let many of them go. My wife had to sweet talk him to get the two pairs we bought. His oldest pigeon is twenty years old - he's had it for nineteen years!


its true pigeons are addicting but there will never be a shortage so once you have some you will always have more on the way so be prepared lol


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## Guest (Jul 1, 2010)

ptras said:


> The guy who sold us the rollers told us the same thing. He has over 250 birds in two large lofts, and two flying coops. I could tell how committed he is to the pigeons, because he obviously didn't want to let many of them go. My wife had to sweet talk him to get the two pairs we bought. His oldest pigeon is twenty years old - he's had it for nineteen years!


just wanted to add a roller group you can join to ask questions at ,here is the link http://www.roller-pigeon.com/Roller_Discussion.html and here is another forum you could join or just read info from http://yengkypigeons.informe.com/rollers-df4.html


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## stuart (Jan 13, 2008)

All breeds of pigeon have the homing ability its just that some breeds are better at homing than others. I allow 3-6 weeks before i let them out.


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## Escaped (Jun 22, 2010)

Hi ptras,

Few things in life are black or white, right or wrong. Virtually every think is a matter of opinion.

30 day or 3 months neither is absolutely right or wrong. Pigeons were not likely designed to be domesticated by humans but they have adapted well to such a roll.

In my humble opinion anyone who has been raising pigeons for a lot of years probably has the best answer.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

*Update on our pigeons...*

While on vacation this week, we adopted a pair of racing homers (Bonnie and Clyde). Temporarily, we have them in the coop with our rollers, but I see that we will need to build them separate quarters, as they are quite a bit larger than the rollers. When we picked up Bonnie and Clyde, they had one egg that they were incubating (it seems that Bonnie laid three(?) eggs and kicked two of them out of the nest). Although we weren't sure if they would continue to sit on it, we brought the egg home also. To our surprise, when we got home yesterday, we found Chloe and Scooter were sitting on an egg. Since Bonnie and Clyde were ignoring their egg, I put it under Chloe, who continued to sit on the two eggs as if they had always been there. Today, Chloe laid another egg, so now she and Scooter are sitting on three eggs.

Question...should I leave the racing homer egg with the two roller eggs? Is it likely to hatch? If it does, along with the two others, will Chloe and Scooter be able to feed all three babies? I have read that you can "candle" an egg to see if there is a baby inside. Is this something I can do, and how should I go about it (can I use a flashlight instead of a candle)? I appreciate any advice on this subject.

Peter


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## velo99 (Apr 8, 2007)

Rollers are pretty easy and lots of fun. They breed like rabbits once they get started. Trap train them to your loft, keep them in a cage outside during the day for two or three weeks so they can see the sun and the surrounding area. Turn them out but dont shoo them up for a few days. They need to build their flying strength,which develops quickly. After a few days to a week they will start flying 30-40 minutes at a time.
Click on my name to go to my club site. You will find some good info and links to roller sites.
GL yits.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

ptras said:


> While on vacation this week, we adopted a pair of racing homers (Bonnie and Clyde). Temporarily, we have them in the coop with our rollers, but I see that we will need to build them separate quarters, as they are quite a bit larger than the rollers. When we picked up Bonnie and Clyde, they had one egg that they were incubating (it seems that Bonnie laid three(?) eggs and kicked two of them out of the nest). Although we weren't sure if they would continue to sit on it, we brought the egg home also. To our surprise, when we got home yesterday, we found Chloe and Scooter were sitting on an egg. Since Bonnie and Clyde were ignoring their egg, I put it under Chloe, who continued to sit on the two eggs as if they had always been there. Today, Chloe laid another egg, so now she and Scooter are sitting on three eggs.
> 
> Question...should I leave the racing homer egg with the two roller eggs? Is it likely to hatch? If it does, along with the two others, will Chloe and Scooter be able to feed all three babies? I have read that you can "candle" an egg to see if there is a baby inside. Is this something I can do, and how should I go about it (can I use a flashlight instead of a candle)? I appreciate any advice on this subject.
> 
> Peter


Hi Peter,
If Chloe just laid those eggs, and the homer egg was layed previously (week or 2 before) - I would take away the homer egg. If it IS fertile, it will hatch before the other 2 eggs. By the time the other 2 eggs hatch, the homer baby will be too big to be in the nest with 2 new hatchlings - disaster


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

*Update...*



Msfreebird said:


> Hi Peter,
> If Chloe just laid those eggs, and the homer egg was layed previously (week or 2 before) - I would take away the homer egg. If it IS fertile, it will hatch before the other 2 eggs. By the time the other 2 eggs hatch, the homer baby will be too big to be in the nest with 2 new hatchlings - disaster


Okay...here's the latest. Chloe and Scooter kicked one of the eggs out of the nest bowl, and it ended up being broken by other birds in the loft. So, now they're sitting on two eggs. One of the remaining eggs is the "foster egg" rather than their own two eggs. The homer egg was laid by Bonnie on Monday July 5th, and the first roller egg from Chloe was laid on Wednesday July 7th, and the second roller egg was Friday July 9th.The maximum days between the Homer and Roller eggs is four. Given that, do you think that it's okay to leave the Homer egg in the nest?


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Just my opinion--but I would throw out all eggs and start all over again. Then you will know for sure what birds you will have. Maybe you need more nest boxes????????????


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## Matt Bell (May 5, 2010)

Yeah, I am with sky tx on this, toss them and start over. If not, then pick one of them and toss it and allow the other to stay. The reason being, lets take worst case scenario, homer baby is 4 days older than roller baby. You already see how much bigger the homers are than rollers, now imagine a 4 day old baby compared to a new hatch, 2 possible things happen and neither are good. The first being the homer baby just tramples the roller baby and kills it. The second being that the roller baby does not get fed and starves to death, also not good. Now, I am not a roller guy, have never raised them, but have had homers and really enjoy them. I would assume that the homer egg is bigger than the roller egg just due to the size of the parents. So, at this point you would be able to candle the homer egg to see if its fertile, if it isn't you can toss it anyways, if it is then you can decide which one to toss. But in all honesty, I think the best option is just to toss them and start over once the homers are in their own loft.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

Do I just take the eggs and chuck them, or do I need to provide them with fake eggs?


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## Matt Bell (May 5, 2010)

You can just toss them, they will lay again when ready.


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

WOW -toss the eggs-separate the pairs-we try to help these new pigeon people--But they do not keep strains separated or any records and most likely never band a squab..They have no idea who the eggs are from. And they think we are "MIND" readers.
Then they wonder why a Roller will not roll and a Homer will not home


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

sky tx said:


> WOW -toss the eggs-separate the pairs-we try to help these new pigeon people--But they do not keep strains separated or any records and most likely never band a squab..They have no idea who the eggs are from. And they think we are "MIND" readers.
> Then they wonder why a Roller will not roll and a Homer will not home


Sky Tx,

This is the type of comment that got us into an argument when I first came on this forum. *Again*, a senior member of the forum looks down upon some measly beginner. And then, since *thinking *that you're so much better than me isn't enough, you had to write it down for all to see.

In the past, I learned Tai Chi for twelve years. My instructor, a man of 80, who had been learning Tai Chi for 75 years, told me that the only way to mastery is through learning and teaching.

Since you obviously aren't here to learn or teach, please don't bother responding to any more of my posts. I'm sure there are plenty of knowledgeable people who can offer advice without getting pissed when someone questions them.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

*Banding birds...*

And regarding you good ole boys that always remember to band your birds? I purchased six birds from a breeder with fifty years of pigeon keeping experience. According to him, four of the birds were hatched in late 2009, and the last two are hatched five months ago and six weeks ago. So *why*, you may ask, are my birds banded with 2004, 2006 or 2007 bands? It seems that some "experienced" pigeon breeder/keeper likes to use up old bands he has lying around the loft.


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

O K ptras--the truth is---If you can type a question--I can type an answer.
SO if you do not type anymore questions---I can not type a reply to your question.


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## velo99 (Apr 8, 2007)

Keep your shorts on ptras. Some of us are pretty hard core. While others of us arent. When you buy a specific breed, it takes you to a different level. The level of a breeder. One thing you will have to learn to do is chuck eggs. If in doubt, throw it out. 
The eggs will start showing some veins after 4 days. By day 10 it should look like it has an egg in it,be darker and not liquidy feeling.I only handle my eggs three or four times. I just reach under the hen with a flat hand and feel for the eggs. Hatched or not? 
You should keep at least minimal records. Parentage,lay date,hatch date and band number if you are going to progress as a roller breeder. Best to best when you breed. Its simple on paper. 
The biggest and best thing, have fun. However you want to do it.
yits
my contact info is on the website


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## Matt Bell (May 5, 2010)

ptras said:


> And regarding you good ole boys that always remember to band your birds? I purchased six birds from a breeder with fifty years of pigeon keeping experience. According to him, four of the birds were hatched in late 2009, and the last two are hatched five months ago and six weeks ago. So *why*, you may ask, are my birds banded with 2004, 2006 or 2007 bands? It seems that some "experienced" pigeon breeder/keeper likes to use up old bands he has lying around the loft.


While using old birds isn't the absolute best thing to do, it is sure a heck of a lot better than not banding at all. Some times you simply run out of bands and have oops babies, better they have some sort of band on them than nothing at all, at least this will allow them to compete in old bird races if they are homers, or in shows etc if they are racers.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

velo99 said:


> Keep your shorts on ptras. Some of us are pretty hard core. While others of us arent. When you buy a specific breed, it takes you to a different level. The level of a breeder. One thing you will have to learn to do is chuck eggs. If in doubt, throw it out.
> The eggs will start showing some veins after 4 days. By day 10 it should look like it has an egg in it,be darker and not liquidy feeling.I only handle my eggs three or four times. I just reach under the hen with a flat hand and feel for the eggs. Hatched or not?
> You should keep at least minimal records. Parentage,lay date,hatch date and band number if you are going to progress as a roller breeder. Best to best when you breed. Its simple on paper.
> The biggest and best thing, have fun. However you want to do it.
> ...


No problem velo99. I understand hardcore enthusiasts, I just don't understand rude people.

Mr. Tex assumed that a) I don't keep records, b) that I don't know which egg is which, c) that I don't listen to (or read) advice, or d) that I am mixing breeds.

a) Wrong!
b) Wrong!
c) Wrong!
d) Wrong!

Maybe he should realize that being around for a long time, does not give him the right to speak down to people. I could do the same for him, correcting his spelling and grammar, but I think I'll just try to remember that insecurity breeds contempt.

I have a mated pair of rollers with a red saddle male, and a b&w baldhead female. The homers (if that's what they really are - I'm leaning towards NY Flying Flights at this time) are both brown birds with white flights. I know enough about genetics to determine which baby belongs to which bird...even if I do lose track of which egg is which.


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Candle an egg is only a term we use. lay the egg on a flashlight or hold it up to a light.
As for my spelling--I blame it on the keyboard moving while I type.
my grammar--ya'll come back now - you hear?


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## Matt Bell (May 5, 2010)

ptras said:


> No problem velo99. I understand hardcore enthusiasts, I just don't understand rude people.
> 
> Mr. Tex assumed that a) I don't keep records, b) that I don't know which egg is which, c) that I don't listen to (or read) advice, or d) that I am mixing breeds.
> 
> ...


How are you going to tell which is which until the birds are fully grown? The red saddle cock could be carrying brown since its recessive to red. The blue hen is only blue, however if the bird happened to be brown, it could still be a hen roller since you don't know what the cock birds other color is. You ARE currently mixing breeds or else the eggs wouldn't be in the same nest. It doesn't help your credibility much if you can't tell flying flights from homers either. Just be careful what you say, we may end up with a pot calling the kettle black type of scenario.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

Matt Bell said:


> How are you going to tell which is which until the birds are fully grown? The red saddle cock could be carrying brown since its recessive to red. The blue hen is only blue, however if the bird happened to be brown, it could still be a hen roller since you don't know what the cock birds other color is. You ARE currently mixing breeds or else the eggs wouldn't be in the same nest. It doesn't help your credibility much if you can't tell flying flights from homers either. Just be careful what you say, we may end up with a pot calling the kettle black type of scenario.


Seems that *many * people can't tell flying flights from Homers. I was originally told these were racing homers when they were given to me. Having emailed a picture to a guy who seems to be an expert on NY Flying Flights, I have been told that the male is a flight, and the female is of undetermined parentage. I guess I wasn't the only confused person, as the previous owner, and many people on this forum who have seen pictures thought they were homers. All birds have been banded, albeit with some previous year's bands. Only rollers are being bred with the rollers. The homer/flight/??? egg has been removed from the nest and disposed of, so no, I'm not mixing breeds.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Hi Peter,
Putting an abandoned homer egg under Rollers (foster parents) is not mixing breeds 
But I do agree with Matt on what to do with them. 4 days difference between a roller and homer is quite a bit. I would discard the eggs and start over. They breed rather quickly, so you'll have more very soon.
Do you have a trim board on your boxes so future eggs don't roll out?
I have plenty of nest boxes for my birds, but still have eggs everywhere!! Some insist on nesting on the floor, window sills, perches and I currently have an oops baby in the "window box"!
The only birds I keep separate are my Fantails. I have Homers, Tumblers, 1 roller and 1 King in the same loft. I don't "free fly", race or show them. Although I don't breed them regularly, I do have oops babies - mine are pets 
I have found that even the "Ol Timers" don't agree on everything - so it's best to keep asking your questions and "take what you need, and leave the rest" 
I think the playhouse would make an excellent loft! I converted an old garden house for my loft. Actually, years ago (about 25), I loaned the building to the "chamber of commerce" and it was used as the "information booth" at the newly built "Kittery Outlets". It was situated across from Bob's Clam Hut on the creek. You can see pictures of it in my albums or my website.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

Msfreebird said:


> Hi Peter,
> Putting an abandoned homer egg under Rollers (foster parents) is not mixing breeds
> Do you have a trim board on your boxes so future eggs don't roll out?
> I have plenty of nest boxes for my birds, but still have eggs everywhere!! Some insist on nesting on the floor, window sills, perches and I currently have an oops baby in the "window box"! The only birds I keep separate are my Fantails. I have Homers, Tumblers, 1 roller and 1 King in the same loft. I don't "free fly", race or show them. Although I don't breed them regularly, I do have oops babies - mine are pets


Thanks for the reassurance  There isn't a trim board on my nest boxes. The eggs were in a nest bowl within a nest box, and the parents had to have lifted the egg up and pushed it out of the bowl, which has about a 2.5 inch depth. Despite others' fears that I'm going to ruin rollers and/or homers by crossbreeding, that won't happen. Bonnie & Clyde (the homers or ???) are only in the roller loft temporarily until additional space can be built.


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## Matt Bell (May 5, 2010)

So, the two breeds are in the same loft together...are the cocks and hens separated? If not then you won't really know who is breeding who until you have two separate lofts. Don't be fooled by the old adage that pigeons mate for life, simply not true.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

Matt Bell said:


> So, the two breeds are in the same loft together...are the cocks and hens separated? If not then you won't really know who is breeding who until you have two separate lofts. Don't be fooled by the old adage that pigeons mate for life, simply not true.


Just wanted to put to rest the concerns of all you old-timers. The homerXflights have been in their own loft (temporarily in my kit box) for almost a week now. The roller hen is still sitting on two eggs...one thought to be developing, and one showing no development when candled. Unless the fertile egg hatches today or tomorrow, I assume it isn't from the homerXflight hen, as she laid on July 01st and 03rd. 

The homerXflight hen laid an egg yesterday, and is sitting on it in the bottom of my kit box. She is pretty protective of that egg. When I moved her a little yesterday evening to clean the kit box floor, she whacked me pretty hard with her wing. It wasn't painful, but it sure as heck startled me the first time she did it 

I am in the process of building another "breeding coop" that the homerXflights will live in. I will also be picking up another pair of the same to go in that coop. My intent is to use the two pairs as pumpers for my rollers.

Question for all you experienced breeders: I understand that to be pumpers, the foster parents must be laying pretty close to the schedule of the breeding pair. My breeding pairs seem to be about a week to ten days off from when the pumpers laid. How do I get them coordinated? If one of my breeder hens lays in the next few days to a week, can I replace the pumper's eggs, or will they stop sitting on them after the appropriate incubation period?

Thanks for any advice.


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

First---the eggs need o be layed within 2 days of the pumpers and then moved.
Some flyers have---put the eggs you want to move in the feed bin and turn them everday until the pumper pair lays the second egg. Maybe hold them for a week?
I know you do not agree BUT you may need to toss all eggs to get the pair you want eggs from and the Pumpers laying at the same time.
Moving eggs is a TOUCH & GO problem.
I had 3-4 pair of pumpers and mated them 1-2-3 days apart and hoped one of them layed when I needed them.
Good Luck--you are learning ---make lots of notes--who layed when? when you moved them?--to which pair you moved them from/to?
"YOU CAN NOT KEEP TOO MANY NOTES" or DATES"
Maybe even stick a note on the nests you moved from--& to ?
Don't depend on remembering.
Most pigeon eggs hatch in 18 days--you may find a pair that will set 20 days.--Not Likely .

WOW ptras--next year you will be a "PRO" about what to do and what NOT to do moving eggs. And it will be First Hand Info to pass on to new/younger flyers


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

sky tx said:


> First---the eggs need o be layed within 2 days of the pumpers and then moved.
> Some flyers have---put the eggs you want to move in the feed bin and turn them everday until the pumper pair lays the second egg. Maybe hold them for a week?
> I know you do not agree BUT you may need to toss all eggs to get the pair you want eggs from and the Pumpers laying at the same time.
> Moving eggs is a TOUCH & GO problem.
> ...


I purchased a stack of Tyvek note cards. I am keeping notes on them with a sharpie. Completely weather (and pigeon poop) proof. I'm keeping parents names/colors/band numbers, parents' origins, lay dates and moving information. When they hatch, I will keep hatch dates and then band numbers.

This is all a lot of work. I made wine and mead as a hobby for years. Everything I ever read always told me that I should keep copious notes on the winemaking process. I never kept one note. However, I think that the breeding records necessary for the pigeons are likely to exceed the capability of even my prodigious memory!


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## Matt Bell (May 5, 2010)

Well that is a great question, not sure I can really express my thoughts on it in a message but I am about to try. Once you figure out each pairs schedule, it will make it much easier. For an example about egg timing, when racing homers and wanting to set up a hen for a race you must use the calender to time everything correctly. For instance, I feel a hen on 10 day old eggs is about as fierce a competitor as they come, especially on a 500/600 mile race, no matter the weather or conditions. So in order to get this 100% correct I would look on the calender to see when that specific race was for that specific bird I wanted set up. Count back from that race day 3 weeks. This will give you the day that you need to pull eggs in order to make sure that on race day she is sitting on 10 day old eggs. In other words, if a hen is on eggs at the current moment, if you were to pull the eggs/or even babies she would lay eggs again in 10/11 days, making race day the 10th day that they are in the nest. Now I think you can see where if you know the approximate day (just has to be approximate as you have about a 2 day window on each side of the lay day in order to move them and be ok) that each hen will lay, by letting them sit the eggs, then pulling them probably at different ages of development and tossing them you can synch up their schedules. This is all pretty confusing to try to type out and hope that you can read it and get the idea, if I completely lost you let me know and I will try again.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

Matt Bell said:


> Well that is a great question, not sure I can really express my thoughts on it in a message but I am about to try. Once you figure out each pairs schedule, it will make it much easier. For an example about egg timing, when racing homers and wanting to set up a hen for a race you must use the calender to time everything correctly. For instance, I feel a hen on 10 day old eggs is about as fierce a competitor as they come, especially on a 500/600 mile race, no matter the weather or conditions. So in order to get this 100% correct I would look on the calender to see when that specific race was for that specific bird I wanted set up. Count back from that race day 3 weeks. This will give you the day that you need to pull eggs in order to make sure that on race day she is sitting on 10 day old eggs. In other words, if a hen is on eggs at the current moment, if you were to pull the eggs/or even babies she would lay eggs again in 10/11 days, making race day the 10th day that they are in the nest. Now I think you can see where if you know the approximate day (just has to be approximate as you have about a 2 day window on each side of the lay day in order to move them and be ok) that each hen will lay, by letting them sit the eggs, then pulling them probably at different ages of development and tossing them you can synch up their schedules. This is all pretty confusing to try to type out and hope that you can read it and get the idea, if I completely lost you let me know and I will try again.


Not lost. It all makes sense, although it won't apply to me. I have rollers, and don't plan on competing with them at least for a year. I still need to get my first kit, trap train them and fly them.

Thanks for all of the input on this topic.


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## Matt Bell (May 5, 2010)

Doesn't directly apply to you, but you can at least use it to time the day that the birds will lay, allowing you to utilize pumpers and get more birds out of your particular pairs.


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