# Worms



## LouisAnna23 (May 4, 2014)

I have a question about wormers please.

I was told Ivermectin does not kill tape worms. Is this correct?

What would I need to kill tape worms please?

Can I overlap treatments?


One bird is due his second ivermectin dose Monday. 

2 new ones have not been wormed at all.

The others are due the second ivermectin on Saturday.

How should I time giving them the tape worm medication? I would like to be as efficient as possible please. 

Thankyou


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

*Mediworm*

I purchased a bottle of Mediworm that it was really inexpensive ($12.00) if i remember right and i give to them one pill every six months.. If i bring a new bird to the loft i make sure i treat them on quarantine before i place them in the loft..
Last time i use it on a rescue pigeon i noticed tons of tape worm coming out, so i know it works for tape worm for sure.
I posted some pics , so you may find it on one of my old post...


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

LouisAnna23 said:


> I have a question about wormers please.
> 
> I was told Ivermectin does not kill tape worms. Is this correct?
> 
> ...


If your birds have tapeworms then I would suggest you to deworm your birds with Praziquantel. The dose is 6mg per pigeon and repeat the deworming after 21 days to break the life cycle of tape worms. Always go with instructions given on your deworming med.
Yes you can overlap deworming drugs IF YOUR BIRDS ARE HEALTHY. If they're weak then care should be taken.

I would suggest you to go for a dewormer called "Moxidectin PLUS" which is a broad spectrum dewormer which kill all worms pigeons can have including tapeworms. It also takes care of many external parasites too. Its safe and effective dewormer.
When you deworm please deworm all the birds at same time. Clean and dust the loft with permethrin dust after deworming to avoid reinfections. Also dust all your birds for external parasites if any, because external parasites can give internal parasites.


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## LouisAnna23 (May 4, 2014)

Thank you very much for your replies.


The birds are healthy but some do not have healthy droppings and the doctor said that he could only find round worm eggs.

They dropped a lot of round worms after the first dose of Ivermectin.

But some droppings are still of the kind where they are not getting enough food (and they have a lot available) so I suspect they have more parasites.

If Moxidectin plus kills all worms, can I give that instead of the second dose of Ivermectin - and then again 21 days after?

I do not know that product you mentioned for dusting the loft. What is the chemical in it please? Is there something else I can use?

What would take care of external parasites effectively? My doctor had given me ivermectin last January to put on the back of their necks and said it would kill everything. But I have one bird with very eaten feathers.

Is it safe to give them Canker medicine (Ronidazole) between the first and second dose of wormer?
It was suggested to treat everyone for canker before I start breeding.

Thank you very much for your help


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

LouisAnna23 said:


> Thank you very much for your replies.
> 
> 
> *The birds are healthy but some do not have healthy droppings and the doctor said that he could only find round worm eggs.
> ...


*The birds are shedding worms as ivermectin is purging them out. Its very necessary to deworm again because ivermectin would only kill live worms and not the eggs which would hatch into new worms. If your birds are affected mainly by roundworms then I would suggest you to use specific drug e.g, pyrantel pamoate instead of ivermectin. Pyrantel pamoate works excellent against round worms and has better efficacy against roundworms than ivermectin. A round worm can lay 1000-5000 eggs per day. Yes per day. So risk of infection is always high. That's why I would recommend pyrantel pamoate. Pls talk to your vet about that because there's always an advantage in using a specific drug to target specific worms when you've got fecal float of your birds droppings done.
yes you can give moxidectin plus as second and third dosage safely.*

Permethrin is a synthetic chemical itself used as insecticide which belongs to family of pyrethroids. Its a neurotoxin. Its very famous. I think you can get it easily. 

yes ivermectin can be used for external parasites used as drops on back of neck,under wing pits and under tail on the SKIN. You can also add ivermectin half a teaspoon to a gallon of birds bathing water. You should give your birds bath with this water twice a week.
But for immediate relief you can use permethrin dust and all external parasites will die and fall off in 15 mins. If you can't get permethrin then not a problem. You can dust your birds for external parasites with any product that is used to dust chicken or dogs and cats for ticks,fleas,flies etc which will be available at any pet store/clinic/shop.

After giving deworming med I will suggest to give probiotics and then multivitamins the next day. Then give your birds a couple of days gap. And then you can give Ronidazole. I would highly recommend ronidazole water soluble canker prevention course before you breed your birds. After ronidazole pls give probiotics and vitamins again.
Wish you luck.


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## LouisAnna23 (May 4, 2014)

Thank you very much again for your detailed replies 

I used to give them a bath twice a week with ACV. I will start putting Ivermectin instead. Thank you for that tip.

Yes, I always give probiotics after any treatments. I will do as you suggested and wait a few days before giving them the Ronidazole in their water.

For how long should I give them the ronidazole in their water, and how long should I wait after the treatment to allow them to breed safely.

Thank you


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## LouisAnna23 (May 4, 2014)

In between the first and second dose to the birds shed live worm eggs?

How do I stop them from getting reinfected in those 2 weeks pls? Do I just dust the loft after the last treatment? And can the birds be inside the loft if I dust carefully?

Thank you


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Jass, can you tell which is the dose for pyrantel?


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

AndreiS said:


> Jass, can you tell which is the dose for pyrantel?


Correct dosage is 1-2mg per pigeon given for 1 day(preventative) and for continous 2 days for worm infestation. Pyarantel pamaote is safe and can safely be dosed even 5 times the correct dosage without any ill effect.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Thank you!

The problem is I not have a medicament containing only Pyrantel but one containing both Prazinquatel - 25 mg and Pyrantel - 72 mg / pill.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

LouisAnna23 said:


> Thank you very much again for your detailed replies
> 
> I used to give them a bath twice a week with ACV. I will start putting Ivermectin instead. Thank you for that tip.
> 
> ...


Correct dosage is 400 mg to 4 litres of water or 2 tsp to 4 litres of water. You can give it for 5 continous days just 5-7 days before breeding. Or it can also be given after the eggs has been laid but the 5-day ronidazole prevention course should complete atleast 5 days before eggs hatch.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

LouisAnna23 said:


> In between the first and second dose to the birds shed live worm eggs?
> 
> How do I stop them from getting reinfected in those 2 weeks pls? Do I just dust the loft after the last treatment? And can the birds be inside the loft if I dust carefully?
> 
> Thank you


When you give deworming med at right dosage it kills all the live worms. So they're passed down the vent. As live worms are kiled no more eggs are passed in droppings as there are no more live worms in the birds to lay eggs. But there are droppings that contain eggs that have been laid by worms before dying. So after deworming all the droppings/beddings etc should be scarped and cleaned. The droppings shouldn't be let to contaminate water and feeders.
No medicine/disinfectant can kill the worm eggs neither inside the birds nor outside. You need to deworm according to the instructions or after 21 days so that the newly hatched worms inside the body are killed before they reach sexual maturity and start to lay more eggs. So to break the life cycle of roundworms birds be dewormed thrice or atleast twice after 21 days and droppings from loft should be scraped and clean after every deworming. Your birds won't get infected in 2 weeks if you clean your loft..

Dusting the birds for external parasites doesn't necessarily need to coincide with deworming. You can dust them anytime when you see external parasites on birds.When dusting birds for external parasites the only thing to be taken care of is that the dust don't get into birds' eyes. You can dust safely in the loft with other birds around. Dusting the loft kills the parasites which hide in the daytime in cracks,crevices etc and come out at night to suck blood out of pigeons.


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## LouisAnna23 (May 4, 2014)

Thank you once again for your detailed advice


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

when you deworm your birds again say in 6 months just in case..you can use one that covers tape worms also..it is good to rotate the dewormers. there can show a postive for worm eggs in a fecal after treatment..that is why it is directed to give/deworm again as that should complete the life cycle.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

AndreiS said:


> Thank you!
> 
> The problem is I not have a medicament containing only Pyrantel but one containing both Prazinquatel - 25 mg and Pyrantel - 72 mg / pill.


Pyrantel pamoate is also available in syrup form for children. Its very cheap here and come in small packings. Talk to you supplier or chemist. I think you can get there also.


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## LouisAnna23 (May 4, 2014)

Thank you for your replies.

So as suggested I should do this regularly every six months even without a fecal test?

I went shopping today. Permethrin they did not have but gave me another powder called Cypermethrin? The bottle says not to be used on animals so I bought a liquid to make a spray for the animals themselves.

He wanted to give me a liquid for the loft as well but I thought the powder would be better because of the damp.

Moxidectin no one supplies. Praziquantel they only had for horses. He gave me instead a bottle for round and flat worms. He said flat worms are the same as tape worms. Is this correct?

Thank you


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

flat worm is a general name for all the tapeworms. if you have access to fecal testing then I would do that and do it four times a year, first one in spring and then again two weeks later.. do the same in the fall.. if negative there is no need to give meds..all birds proabably have some or a load of parasite in their systems it is pretty natural..it is when the numbers get so many that there is a problem with health. or you can forgo the look at the fecal and just deworm the same as checking for worms.. give meds then give again two weeks later.. or when the directions tell you.. swap up dewormers as to not cause resistance.. I like testing fecal just for that reason..I don't like giving birds medications they don't even need.


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## LouisAnna23 (May 4, 2014)

I am lucky to have a doctor close by. I tend to take a sample down as soon as I notice something not normal, so it has added up to quite a cost already.

I was thinking I should get into a regular system of deworming to stop problems before they start - since the only result I ever got back from the tests were round worm eggs.

I hope things become normal again after I get rid of all parasites. Since their dirt is not always as it should be.

One loft has gotten better after the Ivermectin. The other has not changed much, so I want to kill all parasites they might have and start from there.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

LouisAnna23 said:


> Thank you for your replies.
> 
> *So as suggested I should do this regularly every six months even without a fecal test?*
> 
> ...


* if you let your pigeons out to train/race/pick at ground or your loft/aviary have a dirt/earth floor then its advised to deworm your birds once in six months with a broad spectrum dewormer like "moxidectin plus" not the ordinary "moxidectin". Its available on pigeon supply places.*

Cyperpermethrin is stronger than permethrin. You can use it in less quantities. It can be sprayed in the loft for better results. Every crack,crevices,corner etc should be sprayed to kill all hidden parasites. But use less quantity on birds.

no matter if you get praziquantel for horses. We need praziquantel for tapeworms no matter in what form and for what animal its meant for. Only thing we need to care for is its dosage and to make sure it doesn't have other meds in it that are toxic to pigeons.
To be specific,flat worms(flukes) are trematodes and tapeworms are cestodes but same praziquantel can be used to target both. So you need to tell us what are the ingredients of your dewormer which you got? Pigeons and doves are different from all other animals and birds. And MOST dewormers are toxic to them. People have lost their pigeons/doves using wrong deworming meds. So please tell the composition of your new dewormer.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

LouisAnna23 said:


> I am lucky to have a doctor close by. I tend to take a sample down as soon as I notice something not normal, so it has added up to quite a cost already.
> 
> I was thinking I should get into a regular system of deworming to stop problems before they start - since the only result I ever got back from the tests were round worm eggs.
> 
> ...


that sounds good, allot of folks do the maintenance deworming.


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## LouisAnna23 (May 4, 2014)

The instructions on the Cypermethrin were full of warnings about wearing gloves and dust mask and eye mask - so I'm not sure I am comfortable putting it directly on the birds.

The liquid i got for external parasites is called Hexiprametrin - it also has cypermethrin but says you CAN put it on the birds diluted. So I am a little confused.

I haven't used either on the birds yet - only gave them a bath with Ivermectin. But I did dust one cage with the cypermethrin powder. I didn't put too much because after all the warnings I was afraid of it getting into contact with his skin or if he pecks the news paper and eats it.

The wormer is called Tenyl - pigeon solution for round worms and flat worms
The chemical is Levamisole 1.5%
12ml in 1 litre for 1 day. repeat after 3-4weeks

Till now I have given it to the pigeon I have in isolation (because of fighting) and he did not drop any worms. This is the second wormer (he had Ivermectin 2 weeks ago)


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

what kind of external parasites do they have?


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## LouisAnna23 (May 4, 2014)

Most look ok but a few have eaten feathers. I have not seen the living parasite. One of them has feathers in a very bad state, all eaten edges and rough. One has lost 2 tail feathers. I only see it when he spreads his tail, but he has a gap.

They all had 2 drops of ivermectin on the back of their neck last November when I got them. And baths with ACV.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

LouisAnna23 said:


> Most look ok but a few have eaten feathers. I have not seen the living parasite. One of them has feathers in a very bad state, all eaten edges and rough. One has lost 2 tail feathers. I only see it when he spreads his tail, but he has a gap.
> 
> They all had 2 drops of ivermectin on the back of their neck last November when I got them. And baths with ACV.


the ivermectin is good for blood sucking parasites like mites ticks and fleas and pigeon fly.. you would want to use a garden powder or a lice powder for birds for feather lice as they eat off the scuff of the feather not blood. I would repeat in two weeks. 

when I get new birds or a rescue I put seven dust in a bag then the pigeon in the bag with head out and dust him well. don't get in eyes or nose. Im not sure they sell seven dust in Europe. a live stock dust or powder may be the same thing.

my second choice would be dips, you have to dunk the bird in the mixture.. 

my third choice is spraying.. I don't think spraying covers as well as powder and it makes the bird look so bad afterwords. not my favorite.


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## LouisAnna23 (May 4, 2014)

thank you for your reply spirit wings

Do you know the chemical in seven dust?

Would you suggest using the cypermethrin dust even though it says not intended for use on animals?

The solution i have for lice and flies, cypermethrin in liquid form, says to make a 1% soln and spray the animals entire body. Repeat after 14 days if needed.
The directions are for treating cows.

Can I use this solution as a dip instead of spraying it?

Thank you


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## LouisAnna23 (May 4, 2014)

how do you keep the birds head outside of the bag?


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

LouisAnna23 said:


> The liquid i got for external parasites is called Hexiprametrin - it also has cypermethrin but says you CAN put it on the birds diluted. So I am a little confused.
> 
> 
> The wormer is called Tenyl - pigeon solution for round worms and flat worms
> ...


Go ahead and use Hexipramethrin on your birds. If you're cautious don't spray on the whole bird. Stretch his wings out and fan out his tail and spray it on the wings and tail feathers from underside. Don't spray on the whole bird.

Levamisole will kill round worms but it will not kill tapeworms or flatworms. If the dewormer you have has only levamisole,its no good against tape worms and flukes. For tape worms you will need praziquantel.

There's also combo dewormers available. Praziquantel also comes combined with either pyrantel pamoate or ivermectin or with both. If you can get combo dewormer that will kill all worms and you'll be tension free


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## LouisAnna23 (May 4, 2014)

Oh how annoying - why do they say it kills flat worms when it doesn't 

It says 
Levamisole 1.5%
Excipient q.s.p. 100ml (I don't know what that means but I do not think it is a chemical)

Specifies that it kills - capillaria obsignata, Ascaridea columbae, heterakis columbae, Amidostomum columbae


If I get a product for horses what should I look for? And what dosage would I need?

Thank you very much for your help


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## LouisAnna23 (May 4, 2014)

When i dust the breeders loft with cypermethrin can I dust underneath the nest boxes also?

Not the bowls themselves

But I have ceramic bowls it 4 holes underneath and I always hear stories of people who had mites living under the nest bowls and attacking the babies, sometimes making them die.

Can I put cypermethrin under the bowls to keep mites away or will it be bad for the babies?

Thank you


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

I would recommend spraying the "safe diluted solution" as it will be fast acting. It will dry off in few hours so don't be concerned about drafts.
If you have a well ventilated loft then yes you can use the dust in small quantities everywhere in loft. Use nesting materials only in the nest bowls not in the whole nesting boxes. If you scrape the droppings daily then go ahead and dust your loft if your loft is well ventilated. If used in more than required quantities the dust could irritate the birds if the loft's not ventilated. When birds fly the dust gets up in the air and birds breathe it in and can show symptoms of respiratory murmurs(from my experience). Follow the instructions given on it


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

LouisAnna23 said:


> thank you for your reply spirit wings
> 
> Do you know the chemical in seven dust?
> 
> ...


the active ingredient in seven dust is Carbaryl.

the bag, you hold the bag with one hand gently around the pigeon's neck and massage with the other.. someone can hold if you can't do it. I put them on an outdoor table so I have both hands. they move and fight or some do..so you have to be used to handling birds. the bag helps so the dust is not puffing all around and both you and the bird are breathing it in. 

if you use a liquid solution, I would dip the bird in a bucket with the solution in it.. you would get better coverage.


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## LouisAnna23 (May 4, 2014)

Thank you both very much for your advice


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