# why the chicks died in eggs??



## dingweding (Jun 2, 2012)

I recently paired up two white fantail, the hen is experienced mother while the cock is a young bird.

they had a few rounds eggs now, every time the eggs are fertile, but in the end the chicks just died inside the egg..

I know there is disease can cause chicks to die, but this is not the case, as when I open the egg, I can see the chick inside, they are fully developed. meanwhile, the hen had chicks with other cocks before...

at first, I just thought it is bad luck, they will get better next round, but now it happened again...

pls help


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## Squeaker slave (Jan 22, 2014)

I also had trouble my chicks hatched but two hadent obsorb the yolk sack,they died of course,still don't know what happend,hope you can find an answer


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## bigislerollers (Jan 20, 2008)

Your best bet would be to get one of those chicks tested by a competent vet. Otherwise you could take a look at these links.

http://www.pigeonnetwork.com/vetdire...eggsbabies.cfm

http://www.pigeonnetwork.com/vetdire...marx/dying.cfm

http://www.pigeonnetwork.com/vetdire...rlyfailure.cfm


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

Do you have other pigeons? If you have another pair lay the same time you could switch eggs........this would show if the problem is with the parenting or if it is a disease like Salmonella affecting the babies in the shell. Also make sure it is not too dry in the loft at the time of hatching. Give the birds a chance to bathe as the eggs get closer to hatching. If it is too dry the membrane in the egg dries and it is difficult for the chicks to hatch. Do you have other pairs hatching and raising babies normally or is this your only pair of pigeons?


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

•Usually,dead squab in egg shell is a symptom of salmonella. In usual salmonella cases,one egg would hatch and the other fully developed egg won't. The squab would die within.

•Giving pigeons extra calcium may also cause problem of their eggs not hatching as due to extra calcium the egg shell would become too strong for the squab to crack out of.

•Birds wth vitamins/minerals deficienies won't lay healthy eggs. So the squabs in them won't get enough nutrition to become strong and be able to crack out of the shell. Such squabs die in the shell or may be born weak with twisted necks.


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## dingweding (Jun 2, 2012)

yes, I have other birds in loft have chicks hatched and grow up.. some may have two chicks, some may only have one hatch.

In the case of salmonella, I treated one bird last year... I remembered her eggs look normal at first and develop well, but later it turns out as stink black water, as the chick died and rotten inside.

but for this pair, every time, I can see the chick inside, fully developed..... thus I think it is not salmonella, and that hen has chicks before with other cock, although I remember she only had one chick hatch that time.

so is it salmonella??


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Some salmonella strains are ever present in pigeons. Embryo can also die in shell due to infections from the nest if nests/surroundings aren't cleaned regularly.
Chances are salmonella and deficiencies. Only way to confirm would be a diagnosis.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

As woodnative has mentioned, could be Salmonella, or could also be the eggs not having enough humidity when hatching. Your birds could be carriers.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

It can't be said for sure that its salmonella. Dingweding, not only salmonella but e.coli can also cause the situation your squabs are facing. I have personel experience with this so that's why I would advice you to get the cultures done.



> Information Picked From *The Pigeon Insider*
> 
> Fertility problems: Although E. coli can cause fertility problems in both sexes, the hen will often spread out and appear to be ready to lay, but never actually lays. Some will go ahead and lay but the eggs will be soft, rough, or small. Eggs that are fertile will often die once incubation has progressed a few days. *When we culture these eggs we will grow the organism. Sometimes youngsters will fully develop and simply not be able to hatch.* When I have had a hen with E. coli problems I have found it extremely hard to completely “cure” them. They often have problems each year. If you have a good hen with E. coli problems I would recommend that you have the droppings cultured (it will yield the same bug as in the oviduct) and determine which antibiotics work for the serotype in her. Place her on that antibiotic (don’t use baytril or cipro as it will cause problems with fertility as well) several days before mating up and throughout the time before she lays. This often results in healthy, fertile eggs that hatch with no problem.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

dingweding said:


> I recently paired up two white fantail, the hen is experienced mother while the cock is a young bird.
> 
> they had a few rounds eggs now, every time the eggs are fertile, but in the end the chicks just died inside the egg..
> 
> ...



how many days are you waiting before opening up the eggs, maybe they were not ready to hatch.


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## Squeaker slave (Jan 22, 2014)

Thanks all for the links and advice


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Squeaker slave said:


> Thanks all for the links and advice


great!
how many days old were the eggs. ?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Squeaker slave said:


> I also had trouble my chicks hatched but two hadent obsorb the yolk sack,they died of course,still don't know what happend,hope you can find an answer


how old were YOUR eggs? and Dingdongs eggs too?


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## dingweding (Jun 2, 2012)

in my case, eggs about 20 days, the parents start to abandon them, refuse to sit on it any more


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The parents could be carrying something. Getting cultures done would be the best thing so that you know what you are working with. If that isn't going to happen, then salmonella and e-coli would be treated with the same drug normally, but for different time periods. Can you post a pic of where they are kept?


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

E.Coli is something which is not so easy to treat. It needs specific drug to which they are sensitive to,not just any antibiotics. It can't be successfully treated with broad spectrum antibiotics unlike salmonella,with the specific drug instead.
Dingweding I'm sure your birds are showing other symptoms too. Like retaining some seeds in the crops in the morning after last evening's feeding. A little change in color of their feet. Change of color(pale) of their upper back of throat. Keel bone feeling sharp and stuFF...


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Of course you are right in that a different drug could be needed, as sometimes the e-coli have built up a resistance to Enroflox. Sometimes Amoxicillin, or Trimethoprim/Sulfa will work. But to know exactly which drug is the best, you would have to do cultures to find out the sensitivity of the bacteria. And most don't want to do that.

Those symptoms would go along with many other diseases as well, so without tests, again, you can't be sure. That is why it is good to have an avian vet that you can turn to.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

dingweding said:


> in my case, eggs about 20 days, the parents start to abandon them, refuse to sit on it any more


hmmm, I would never open anything that was younger than 26 days, sometimes incubation can be a bit off for different pairs, example if they take breaks from sitting, or if the cock bird takes his time for his turn when the hen gets up it can slow the process, if the pair give up at 20 days that is only one day over the hatch time, plenty of birds hatch day 21..so the pair may give up too soon and the hatchlings die from no heat for them to absorb their yolk so they are strong enough to start the process of hatching which can take a day or longer.

also counting hatch times should start only after the pair sit the eggs well after the second is layed. after the second is layed and they keep tight on both eggs that should be day 1


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