# is this a problem



## pigeon kid (May 19, 2007)

well is this a problem, i was waching my pigeons when one of there droppings look wierd so i was wondering is there something wrong with my pigeon?


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

They don't look good. Are those seeds in the droppings or is their food just scattered around?
Any other symptoms present?

Reti


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## pigeon kid (May 19, 2007)

Reti said:


> They don't look good. Are those seeds in the droppings or is their food just scattered around?
> Any other symptoms present?
> 
> Reti


yes its just seed scattered around and i dont know of any others


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

What are you feeding the birds and have they been treated or immunized for any disease, also what kind of preventive nutrition are you giving them?


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## pigeon kid (May 19, 2007)

ummmmmm i dont know the name of the product or the grains they eat 
and they havent been treated for any disease


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## pigeon kid (May 19, 2007)

ok here is the grain that they eat


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## pigeon kid (May 19, 2007)

plz keep posting, plz help me out here


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

That looks like a pretty typical pigeon mix to me. If your birds are not well, there must be something going on that is not diet related.

Terry


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## pigeon kid (May 19, 2007)

ok thank you a bunch


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## pigeon kid (May 19, 2007)

ok guys here is an update, is this good or not? plz tell me! and how can i fix it?


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## pigeon kid (May 19, 2007)




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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I can't see anything.

Reti


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## pigeon kid (May 19, 2007)

? what do you mean, so hes ok, fine, regular.?
or the pic isnt working?



pk


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

pigeon kid said:


> ? what do you mean, so hes ok, fine, regular.?
> or the pic isnt working?
> 
> 
> ...


The links to your pictures aren't working .. all we get are the little boxes with the red X inside.

Terry


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## pigeon kid (May 19, 2007)

dang it, it works for me fine well it will take a while -_-



pk


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## pigeon kid (May 19, 2007)

i hope it works her it goes


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I can see it. Looks like a lotta' water and very few solids. If most or all of that bird's poops were like that, you'd have a problem.

Pidgey


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## pigeon kid (May 19, 2007)

so what do i do?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, get descriptive about this bird in particular, for one thing. Are there any other symptoms that you can see? And do you have any medications?

Pidgey


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Pigeon kid, poop looks like that of a bird who is starving. Could you try to get it smaller seed. Maybe the peas and stuff are just too big for it right now.

Any idea of her weight? Do you have any way of weighing it every day.


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## pigeon kid (May 19, 2007)

i have some meds but i dont know where my dad puts them so when he gets home i will tell you them. and i dont see any other sympotoms and i dont know his weight.


pk


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Birds are bad about hiding it when they don't feel good. It would be good if you separated this bird out into its own cage with fresh papers, food and water and then observed what all the poops looked like for at least a day. If the bird's not eating then you need to go with the best guess and the appropriate drug, supplement or whatever.

Pidgey


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## pigeon kid (May 19, 2007)

ok i will isolatite him thanks for the help
o one more thing he is on eggs so still isolatite him?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Is "he" the cock or the hen?

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Isolate him along w/his partner. You should probably treat both of them.

fp


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## pigeon kid (May 19, 2007)

he is the cock


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## pigeon kid (May 19, 2007)

feralpigeon said:


> Isolate him along w/his partner. You should probably treat both of them.
> 
> fp



and what about the egg?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Do you know how far along it is?

Pidgey


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## pigeon kid (May 19, 2007)

i have no idea maby 11
i was gone at the time and my dads friend was takeing care of the pigeos.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Well, you can leave them be and treat for canker as a flock. It's recommended
that pigeons be treated for canker before the breeding season anyway. If you 
aren't going to be doing lab work, then you might want to treat for the known
devils as a flock and then make sure that you have a health program in place for your birds such as the kind in the sticky that Treesa Gray has put together.
I believe that Reti put one together for pets as well. Have a look in the Resource Section:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=25

fp


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## pigeon kid (May 19, 2007)

feralpigeon said:


> Well, you can leave them be and treat for canker as a flock. It's recommended
> that pigeons be treated for canker before the breeding season anyway. If you
> aren't going to be doing lab work, then you might want to treat for the known
> devils as a flock and then make sure that you have a health program in place for your birds such as the kind in the sticky that Treesa Gray has put together.
> ...


what do these programs do?


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Pigeons have host-equilibrium conditions that stay balanced as long as they
aren't under stress. By making sure they have a good diet w/some nutritional
supplements, you will keep their good health at optimum levels so that they don't succumb to the disease state.

Does that make sense for you?

fp


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Trichomoniasis and Canker are two of these host equilibrium diseases. If you isolate, the birds may ignore the egg in the new surroundings, that's my concern.

fp


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## pigeon kid (May 19, 2007)

ok now it makes sense lol


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

OK, let us know what meds you have when you can.

fp


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## pigeon kid (May 19, 2007)

0k i found the meds you gave me and i will try to spell the words out
2 furaltadon
2 dimetridazole
lol try to spelll them out for me


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

The Furaltadone is usually for a Paratyphoid infection. Don't really know a lot about it because there's not as much published about it, especially if the idea of using it is for clearing the carrier state of Paratyphoid. Usually we use a fluoroquinolone for that (Cipro or Baytril). I think it might even have activity against Coccidiosis.

The Dimetridazole is commonly known as "Emtryl" and is one of the more dangerous anti-canker drugs (canker and Trichomoniasis are the same thing, by the way). It's bad in overdose and so if a bird is drinking too much water, it can easily get too much.

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Here's a link from Jedd's for the Furaltadone:

http://www.jedds.com/ProductDetail.asp?MainCategoryID=67&SubCategoryID=610&ProductID=2549

And here is a link for Cankerex:

http://www.jedds.com/ProductDetail.asp?MainCategoryID=64&SubCategoryID=538&ProductID=2393

Here's Gordon Chalmers on the correct way to dose w/Dimetridazole:

"On the subject of under-dosing, especially with Emtryl, I find in my travels in the USA and Canada, that the dosage of the 40% water-soluble Emtryl, as recommended by several pigeon supply houses in North America is far below that recommended for pigeons by the producer of the drug. (At one time, this company sold small 3-gram packets of Emtryl, the exact dosage for one Imperial gallon - 4.55 litres). The fact that Emtryl is being recommended today at much lower dosages could certainly contribute to the problem of drug resistance mentioned in the previous paragraph, and may be a developing problem with major far-reaching consequences for us. I would remind fanciers that the correct dosage of Emtryl for pigeons, as recommended by the company, is 3 grams (or one level teaspoon) per imperial gallon (4.55 litres) of drinking water for 5-7 days. For the smaller US gallon (4 litres), this is about 3/4 teaspoon per gallon for the same treatment period. 
To avoid the problems of toxicity if birds drink excessive amounts of water especially during hot weather, try an Australian method that I know works well. Make up the correct dosage of Emtryl and place it in front of the birds at, say, the evening feeding for a couple of hours or so. After this time, throw out the medicated water and replace it with fresh water until the next evening. Repeat the correct dosage for a couple of hours or so each evening for a total of 5-7 days. This method insures firstly, that birds receive the correct therapeutic dose each day for the treatment period, and secondly, that problems with toxicity can be largely avoided. It is important not to treat with Emtryl or other drugs of the same family during the pairing up period, because there is some suggestion that the drug can interfere with fertility. It is also a good idea to change drugs each time you feel birds need to be treated, say, Emtryl for one 5-7 day treatment period, and another appropriate for the next one, etc., all at the correct dosage."

I think PK's birds will be fine w/these meds, Pidgey.

fp


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## pigeon kid (May 19, 2007)

dang you guys know a lot lol


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Oh, I'm fine with both of them although I don't have a Furaltadone-based product in my war chest. I use Dimetridazole myself if I have to flock-treat for canker but I do go through and check everyone for anything approaching an abnormally high water intake (puddles, I look for puddles) and deal with that one accordingly. 

Not really sure what it is that PK's birds have, though, so it's shootin' in the dark (and I don't really mind that, either, when indicated).

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Furaltadone should take care of ecoli, wouldn't use it as a drug of choice for
Paratyphoid although in years past it was a war chest item for Paratyphoid.
It's also listed for coccidiosis, though. 

Maggie's reflection on it looking as though the bird isn't getting enough food
could fall into several categories where there are occlusions or interference w/the normal digestion or absorption of nutrients.

fp


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Yeah, if that's the only kind of poop coming out then the bird's almost anorectic. However, if it's constantly dumping out water and the solids would actually added up to something substantial in a day then you'd worry more about the kidneys. In isolation, you'd be able to monitor the drinking (given unlimited water) and see if the bird is polydypsic.

Pidgey


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## pigeon kid (May 19, 2007)

and he has the same dropings in the picture
and should i give him some pigeon grit?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

How much of those kind of droppings? A lot? Enough to get the papers underneath pretty soggy or just once in awhile?

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Yes, normally folks leave the grit out for them all the time.
PK, are you bringing this bird to a vet?

fp


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## pigeon kid (May 19, 2007)

well when i went out he had another dropping like that
and i dont know if im going to take him to a vet i will just give him the meds you are sending me and see how it goes


pk


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

I'd like to see you treat the birds for canker to have a base line.

fp


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## pigeon kid (May 19, 2007)

feralpigeon said:


> I'd like to see you treat the birds for canker to have a base line.
> 
> fp


what do you mean base line?


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Well, you probably need to reed some of the stickies in the Resource section.
Again, many notable Avian Vets and pigeon specific vets recommend treating
for known issues that pigeons have before the breeding season and at intervals
throughout the year in addition to having a health program in place. By treating
for the known conditions, you have a baseline to work with in that you know
the populations of certain organisms they are known to live with have been
'knocked down' in numbers and are within the range of what is considered
the host-equilibrium state which is different from the disease state. 

I'd also like to see you treat for coccidiosis as well.

fp


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, the Furaltadone will get Coccidiosis, too. PK, what all does it say on the packages of those two medications and we'll see if we can work on a dosing for these two birds (what breed are they again?). How many birds do you have total, by the way?

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Pidgey, they are both flock treatment meds and the dosing is in the links
I posted.

fp


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I kinda' sorta' meant to come up with a mix that wasn't an entire gallon of each. Just a hunch but I'm a'guessin' that PK here might not know how to divvy up a teaspoon to make less stuff unless he wants to treat his entire loft right now, and how many birds is that? And how much water are they consuming right now?

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Well, if you use the formulation that Dr. Chalmers uses, it's 3/4 of a teaspoon
to a gallon for 5-7 days. PK is getting more meds in the mail by Saturday.
He's had these for a while now to have on hand for an emergency. He apparently has a baby, how old, I don't know. So it may be that he is going to have to wait until such time that the birds are off the nest to group medicate.

Now, he could make a gallon and discard what isn't used at the end of the week of treatment. But if you go the'Australian Route" that Chalmers discusses, I think it relies on food being given at specific times from the sound of it. This he could do w/the one bird and switch back to food all of the time when the bird is through w/the medication.

I still think he should do some flock treatment for his birds, but it really should have happened before the breeding season. 

fp


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## Happy (Dec 19, 2004)

Vaccinate ALL birds for PMV NOW.............. Happy


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## pigeon kid (May 19, 2007)

well the baby bird is 28 days old and the parents are sitting on the 2nd round


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I think Happy is looking at the little string-like poops and thinking you're in for a loft-full of PMV birds if you don't get them vaccinated in a hurry, which would be a major long-term problem if they started getting symptomatic. PMV can't be dealt with after symptoms begin to show. You can get those vaccines and the stuff to do it through the pigeon supply houses like Jedds, Global, Foy's, etc. Here's Jedds page on it:

http://www.jedds.com/SearchKeywordResults.asp

Pidgey


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## pigeon kid (May 19, 2007)

so is it ok for the baby to drink the water and give them dimetridazole right


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

pigeon kid said:


> so is it ok for the baby to drink the water and give them dimetridazole right


Twenty Eight days would be allright. If you do Chalmers method, you need to pull the food during the day, put down in the evening w/the medicated water
for a few hours then pull feed and replace water w/regular water.

fp


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## pigeon kid (May 19, 2007)

thank you every body for the help you guys rock!


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