# How to Sound Proof Loft



## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi,

Wasn't sure where to post this but just wanted to see if anyone had any helpful hints as to how to try and soften the sounds coming from my noisey inmates!

I have twelve rescue pigeons that live in a large converted potting shed I have at the bottom of my garden. It has large windows along the full length of one side and my hubbie has recently added on an open aviary area attached to the side.
I'm getting a bit concerned as I never intended to have this many and the noise level has increased as a result with the almost constant cooing and mating that goes on and it's located next to my neighbours fence.

Is there anything I can line the shed walls with that might reduce the sounds from outside? Also it would be good if it helps keep the place a bit warmer through the winter.
I realise it can't be completely deadened but any improvement would be better than nothing.
I was wondering if roof insulation hidden behind some sort of hardboard would make any difference.

Any advice appreciated.

Janet


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## Thunderbird Racing (Jul 24, 2010)

Wall insulation, and a thin plywood would make an improvement in the sound, the warmth, as well as help regulate the humidity.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

We used foam board insulation in our loft. It works well, and as was mentioned, it can then have a thin layer of plywood placed over it. That would definitely help with the noise, except when the windows or aviary are open.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Thank you so much for the suggestions. I'll look into that. It can get very warm in there when the sunshines through the windows but winters are getting much colder so now's a good time to try and get this done.
Then hopefully the sound will be reduced before next spring when the neighbours tend to sit outside. 

Thanks,

Janet


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

4 things I used to use to soundproof speaker cabinets and a recording room was Egg boxes, foam cushions, car felt (from old cars at local scrapyard) and foam backed carpet.
The car felt is the thinnest & good as it is designed to keep road and engine noise out of a car.
Foam cusions need to be the dense type but would need a lot to do a whole loft.
Egg boxes are so simple, the dimpled shape simply absorbs the sound, as does carpet although not quite as well.


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## NayNay (Mar 16, 2011)

Just curious- did your neighbors complain? Mine are further away, but can still hear the cooing, and they told me that they like it. There are certainly worse noises...


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

Thermocol sheets can be used as good sound absorber and insulators


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

NayNay said:


> Just curious- did your neighbors complain? Mine are further away, but can still hear the cooing, and they told me that they like it. There are certainly worse noises...


Hi, not yet! I'm just trying to avoid any complications before we get to them really as we aren't supposed to keep animals or birds etc according to the lease, terms go back a long way and are a bit complicated.
They're very nice folks but are friends with the chairman of the estate and he's another matter. So best to try and keep things peaceful as possible.

Janet

Thanks Bob, egg boxes, good idea.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

amyable said:


> Hi, not yet! I'm just trying to avoid any complications before we get to them really as we aren't supposed to keep animals or birds etc according to the lease, terms go back a long way and are a bit complicated.
> They're very nice folks but are friends with the chairman of the estate and he's another matter. So best to try and keep things peaceful as possible.
> 
> Janet
> ...


what are you going to do with them if they make you get rid of your birds..do you have a plan..if not I would get one..esp if you are not allowed to have them.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

spirit wings said:


> what are you going to do with them if they make you get rid of your birds..do you have a plan..if not I would get one..esp if you are not allowed to have them.


Yes it's sorted. We were allowed to have our dogs, it's not too hard and fast obviously but I'm playing safe.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

I went to a DIY superstore today to suss out what was there.
Found a product equivalent to the Thermocol as a possiblity.

I asked for advice and told them exactly what it was for and the chap showed me the high density 'Loft Insulation', obviously not pigeon loft! but roof loft. It's the 'wool type' of insulation. He thought it could be packed in double layered and then plywood over the top.
It did say it was good for thermal and acoustic insulation. I just thought I'd check it out here first as it might be easier for me to do myself as the solid boards worked out very expensive and would need cutting to size to fit inbetween the supports. (If they were decidedly better then so be it).

I don't want to try his option and find it makes no difference but wondered if you had any thoughts as to whether it could work before I go for the board option.

Thanks for your time

Janet


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Janet, I'd be very careful with that type of insulation. 
Check exactly what it contains, as most are actually a fiberglass based wool.
I wouldnt think it was that good at soundproofing, but I do know that when you are working with it & cutting or tearing it to fit, that minute fibres tend to go everywhere, and for health & safety reasons folk are advised to wear a mask when installing it. Also thinking about this maybe affecting the birds too.


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## honeyrobber (Apr 28, 2011)

Why are you letting them breed since these are rescued(ferals was my guess)? Get the fake eggs or seperate the sexes.

All types of insulations reduce the sound. The cheapest and easiest type to install is the wool types. In the USA it comes in the right thickness for your walls. Doubling it actually reduces its insulation factor but may help more with noise. For example here we get it in 4 inch, 6 inch, 8 inch depending on the size of the studs or floor joist you are insulating. Trying to get 2 4 inch piece in a 4 inch wall would reduce the dead air space greatly reducing the insulating factor. Actaully it is 3.5 inches called 4 inch as our studs are no longer a full 4 inches but you get the idea.


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## honeyrobber (Apr 28, 2011)

The birds would need to be removed during installing but it will not hurt the birds after it is installed and behind plywood. easier to post again than edit.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

honeyrobber said:


> Why are you letting them breed since these are rescued(ferals was my guess)? Get the fake eggs or seperate the sexes.
> QUOTE]
> It was a bit misleading how I worded the reason for the increase in numbers. I don't breed them and do swap out the eggs, it still doesn't stop them going through the motions of mating and the noise level is the same!!
> The reason for increased numbers is more rescues (although I've been caught out a couple of times with hidden eggs).
> ...


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

amyable said:


> Bob, Yes I talked to the chap about the glass fibre content and in a way that's why I was querying it's use. Really it's the birds I was concerned about as I can take the precautions for myself.
> Janet


As long as the insulation is completely enclosed and the birds cant peck at any holes etc. also as honeyrobber says, they would have to be removed during the process & the loft well cleaned/vented once done. The tiny particles do get everywhere & can float around for weeks afterwards, especially in a pigeon loft situation where the birds continually "flap" and move air around.
Fiberglass is very good for lots of things, but sadly is not degradeable other than reducing to smaller pieces, which effectively is minute pieces of glass as a dust which if inhaled can cause serious problems for any living creature.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

I will have a hard look at alternatives I think before going for that option.
It's not really going to be easy to remove the birds for any period of time as I have nowhere to put them.

The only reason I wasn't going for the Polystyrene option is I have found a small hole I've had to block up that I reckon Mickey Mouse has chewed to get in a while ago. The fibre glass would be a better deterrent as far as Mickey goes!!

I appreciate your help with this as it seems the sales folks in these DIY stores don't have a clue sometimes about the products and their uses so I don't feel confident going with what they suggest.

Thanks

Janet


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

If you do decide to go for "loft" insulation, try some local builders supply companies rather than the diy stores, as you will prob find them cheaper.
Heres a link to a place we have here in Edinburgh, dont know if theres anything like it near you, but they have "accoustic foam" "here" which works the same way as the "egg box" I mentioned (although pretty expensive). They also have "yoga blocks" (here) although dont specify the size, but that type of foam is also very good for deadening sound.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

On the contrary, rodents just love nesting in fiberglass insulation. Doesn't bother them at all.

Mice will often use insulation such as fiberglass as nesting material. If mice have set up residence in your home insulation you might hear them gnawing, scratching, squeaking and fighting in your walls and ceiling. Studies and experience have proved fiberglass is not a deterrent to mice.
http://www.ehow.com/info_7842200_fiberglass-deterrent-mice.html
Read more: Is Fiberglass a Deterrent for Mice? | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/info_7842200_fiberglass-deterrent-mice.html#ixzz1cV9CKGwp


Drawback: rodents love fiberglass, and eagerly make their little nests in it when they can, thus, if your home is not sealed well, you might be attracting mice, rats, etc. with this choice of insulation.

http://www.homebuildingremodeling.com/fiberglass_insulation_000132.html


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Depends on the actual grade of fiberglass.
With insulation, Yes, rodents will nest in it as it does provide insulation & therefore keeps in the heat from their own bodies. Small strands of this are not harmful to them as, because it is so fine and untreated with any resin, it will remain semi soft. Dust itself once the product has settled, wont bother them much as they dont really disturb enough of it that much while building a nest, however the amount of dust generated while using the material could be harmful to any living creature.
Fiberglass matting on the other hand is thicker strands and more brittle, & when used with resin, is an excellent way to plug holes as they will not gnaw through it because the resin makes the glass even more brittle & it will cut their mouths & gums.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I was talking about fiberglass insulation, as I think that amyable was considering using it, as she thought it would deter mice. I know they like nesting in it.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Jay3 said:


> I was talking about fiberglass insulation, as I think that amyable was considering using it, as she thought it would deter mice. I know they like nesting in it.


Well that just goes to confirm my thoughts that you can't rely on the 'experts' in these stores as the one thing this chap said was that mice wouldn't like it!!!!!
I'm glad you brought that up.

I'm going to a different store today and will ask the same questions and see what they come up with.

Wilkes have a deal ATM with this High Density loft insulation with buy one get three free!! and then I was told I could take back what I didn't need and get half back. Seemed a good deal! Still this has made me think more with regards to the health sides for the birds. Not as straight forward as it seemed.

They do have matting that is supposed to have excellent acoustic results according to the reviews but the safety aspect still needs to be looked into.

Again thanks so mcuh for the info, it is appreciated.

Janet


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## brentjohnf (Sep 8, 2008)

No insulation is "100%" mouse proof, they love them all if they can get into it. I’ve seen a mouse squeeze through a hole that I could barley fit my pinky in. Seal the shed with silicone it is as cheap as $2.00 a tube and makes for a clean look also goes a long way. ¼” plywood is as cheap as $6.00 interior grade, if painted will last a long time also silicone all cracks joints of plywood, are get some cans of great stuff foam $4.00 before you put insulation and walls, spray any big cracks you can see on the outside walls. just some ideas photos of the shed would help with ideas, I did not read all the comments but if it’s a shed made of like cypress boards like a old barn with large spaces between the boards, something like thin pressure treated plywood cut to fit tight between wall studs would be all you need. If it’s all windows and that clear corrugated plastic I would just try sealing all the cracks of walls and joints of panels and all windows.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Just found these pictures of the inside taken a while ago to give you an idea of where it would need to fit between the posts.
It's set up for disabled birds hence the ramps etc.
I just envisage placing some insulation between the posts and covering them with plywood so they're easy to wipe down.
nothing complicated needed and I'm a dab hand with a silicone filler gun so no problem there.
Really just need to decide now whether to use fibre glass or foam board I think. It may be better to attach the plywood to the outside of the posts but would just need to remove two shelves off the wall to do that as the other 'furniture' is free standing and movable.
Also saw some acoustic sheeting that's used to line under laminate floors, might put that behind the insulation against the walls first as an extra layer!
I think I might be getting carried away here.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

amyable said:


> Just found these pictures of the inside taken a while ago to give you an idea of where it would need to fit between the posts.
> It's set up for disabled birds hence the ramps etc.
> I just envisage placing some insulation between the posts and covering them with plywood so they're easy to wipe down.
> nothing complicated needed and I'm a dab hand with a silicone filler gun so no problem there.
> ...


lol, Looking at your setup, I think it would prob be easier using foam board, as it would be rigid and panels stay in place easier while paneling with plywood. Also, your plywood covering panels could be done in sections around your ramp supports only overlapping half onto your uprights (saves having to take down & re-assemble ramp supports etc) Then go to work on any spaces with your silicon gun 
Another prob with the fiberglass is it is actually designed for horizontal insulation on a loft floor. Using it vertically and even tacking it up to hold it, through time, its own weight will gradually stretch it & make it sink to the floor, leaving the top part with thinner insulation.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Another thing that may work out cheaper and do just as good a job, is expandable polyurathane foam in an aerosol.
Dont know how much each aerosol would fill, but just panel, drill a small hole & fill cavity.
foam expands inside to fill complete area so no gaps, and any that leaks out can be trimmed with a stanley knife when set.
would need to be filled in stages, starting at bottom & working upwards.


EXPANDING FOAM


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## brentjohnf (Sep 8, 2008)

Cool looking set up!! 

Like "Quazar"said. Foam board then I'd secure it to the the outer wall with small nails are strips of wood to keep it against the outer wall. Then.. Get some "caulk" not silicone, put a good bead of calk on each stud and and stick the panel/plywood on the the caulk before it drys and fasten with nails/screws.calk all seams. Best i can think of.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi,
Well. just go back from Wickes, tried a different store to yesterday out of interest and posed the same questions.
This time the lad showed me the foam board that the one yesterday didn't recommend. It's expensive but comes in very large sheets and so I'm going to do a costing later. Won't it in my 4x4 even with the seats down, so big. Shame as it's heavty delivery charge.
Also checked out some high density slabs for acoustic and insulation purposes. The point you made Bob about the roof stuff slipping down is also something I hadn't thought of, excellent point.
These hard slabs would be ok as far as that goes then as could be nailed in place too. Packs of those would fit in the car.....so I'll cost them both later and make a decision.
This has been so useful bouncing ideas off you guys as Hubbie thinks I'm mad, I've got no help there so I've got to do this myself if it's going to get done!

Brilliant, nearly there, 

Janet


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Janet, your loft is cute with all the ramps for the handicapped birds, and it looks as if it gets good sunlight too. The foam board would be fairly easy to install between the studs. You could cut it in half to take it home. Then you just piece it back together when you install it.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

amyable said:


> Hi,
> ............ Won't it in my 4x4 even with the seats down, so big. Shame as it's heavty delivery charge.
> ............


Have a word with the assistant at Wickes, they may be able to cut the sheets in half for you to transport easier. They may charge you, or you could offer to slip him a couple of quid for doing it  
Alternatively, if B&Q have same stuff, they do a self drive "hourly van hire" which may be helpful (see here


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi,

I've just sat with a pen and paper working out the sizes I need as the roof slopes up at one end and so some pieces need to be much longer. Needed to estimate how many sheets I need.
So if I go in with the sizes I need as you say I can get them cut at least enough to transport. Delivery would be £22!!! what a rip off.
Also I can get the plywood cut to size there so can do it all at once hopefully.

The customer reviews on the slabs are amazing as far as acoustics go, so still hovering as to which to use but the foam boards work out cheaper and are as light as a feather.
Getting there, nearly! 

Janet


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