# Are Pigeons Poultry?



## Frank A (Jan 9, 2009)

Just about to start my loft when a local fancier I was talking to ask if I had any restrictions in my neighborhood. Off hand, I didn't think there were as many of my neighbors keep horses. 

However, Article VII, Use Restrictions says under Section 10: No animals, livestock, or poultry of any kind shall be raised or bred on any Lot, except that horses, dogs, cats or other household pets my be kept, provided that they are not kept, bred or maintained for any commercial purpose. One horse or cow shall be allowed per Lot, unless the Lot is larger than 1.5 acres in area, in which case two horses or cows shall be allowed.

Are racing homers poultry or can I get them in under household pets?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

In most places they fall under the poultry category.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

You'll need to contact someone to see if pigeons would fall under any of the categories you can't have. Pigeons are not poultry, although some towns/cities like to group them in with poultry. When my dad lived in the city limits, some complaints were made about his pigeons as well. In the end, nowhere in the rules did it mention pigeons, just poultry, which they weren't...so he was able to keep his birds. Of course not all places will settle as peacefully as that.

It looks as though the only way you will be able to keep them, is if you can get them under household pets. Otherwise (even if they aren't poultry) they're still animals that aren't horses, cats, or dogs. I'm guessing you'd have to keep them inside like parrots and such, in order for that to slide. Personally if it were me, I'd just have me a little loft on the back of the house with a few pigeons in it. If someone has THAT big of a problem and complains, then so be it. I'd keep'em until someone throws some laws at me and tells me I have to get rid of them.


Edit: Ah, I missed the part where you said you were just about to start your loft. So you don't have birds yet. In that case it may be best to check first. IF you already had them, THEN that's where my advice about keeping them until someone complains, would come in play. Sorry about that


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

It's best he check it out to make sure. Just GETTING RID of a living creature isn't necessarily all that easy, especially if one want s to make sure that creature is placed in a safe environment. Just look at all those up for adoption at this site and I'm sure the ones represented here are a "drop in the bucket".


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## UncleBuck (Dec 23, 2008)

A lot of people are very ignorant when it comes to pigeons. They only know what they have been told (Rats with wings, pest, disease carriers, etc...) and never check the facts. This may be a chance to try to get some info to your town/city council. Invite them out to a loft (A loft which is CLEAN) and have some experienced people there to answer their questions.
My brother is a city council in a city up north. Because he remembered my birds when we were kids, he encouraged the rest of the board members to go with him to "Learn" more about pigeons. They ended up given the guy a variance that allowed him to keep five pairs of birds and no more than twenty total.
You may be able to get them to give you a waiver on the ordinance... Just a thought.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

The government seems to have difficulty classifying pigeons. Sometimes they think it is poultry. Sometimes it is not. My local ordinance do not classify it as poultry since we don't breed them to eat or have their eggs to eat. But sometimes the federal government seems to think it is poultry. It is confusing. You may be safe to think that the pigeon is a household bird pet though. I consider mine as pets.


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## risingstarfans (Sep 13, 2008)

*Typical Civic BS*

Firstly, pigeons are not poultry in any sense of the word. 

Second, by allowing livestock such as a cow or a horse on a lot, they have opened themselves up to warranted challenges.

Third, were I you, since they specifically name poultry, don't worry about it!
The first rule of action vis-a-vis the government is "It is easier to assk forgiveness than it is to ask permission", so for heaven sakes, do not ask anyone at city hall whether it is OK to build your loft and keep your birds in it.

Fourth, do you have good relations with your immediate neighbors? this is most important, since no munincipality that I know of will even try to enforce any use ordinance like this unless there is a complaint.

I have been there, I know.


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## risingstarfans (Sep 13, 2008)

UncleBuck said:


> A lot of people are very ignorant when it comes to pigeons. They only know what they have been told (Rats with wings, pest, disease carriers, etc...) and never check the facts. *This may be a chance to try to get some info to your town/city council. * _*GOOD HEAVENS, NO!!! GIVEN THE CHANCE TO SAY NO, THEY WILL....AND IT IS EASIER TO GET FORGIVENESS THAN IT IS PERMISSION!!!!*_Invite them out to a loft (A loft which is CLEAN) and have some experienced people there to answer their questions.
> My brother is a city council in a city up north. Because he remembered my birds when we were kids, he encouraged the rest of the board members to go with him to "Learn" more about pigeons. They ended up given the guy a variance that allowed him to keep five pairs of birds and no more than twenty total.
> You may be able to get them to give you a waiver on the ordinance... Just a thought.


There are loopholes in virtuall any law or code if you look hard enough. Been there, done that!


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## Frank A (Jan 9, 2009)

Thanks everyone. First thing I'm going to do today is apply to the HOA for a Property Modification. I've done this several times in the past and know the ropes. I intend to apply for 900 sq. ft. of patio attached to the pool and an 8'x8' pool building located in the fenced pool area. No mention of the word pigeon or loft on this document. (thanks risingstarfans) After I get the approval, I'll talk to the neighbors about raising homers. I have very good relations with all the neighbors, I'm the neighborhood handyman.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

Frank,

Many laws and regulations are passed for selective enforcement.

For example, back in the days when many farming communities felt a bunch of hippies would deceptively rent a neighboring field to set up a huge rock festival, with streams getting plugged with raw sewage, chickens stop laying and cows stop giving milk, the rules applying to getting a license for get-together's would be invoked. One toilet for every ten people, fire wardens, paved roads, and so on. If a church revival or Boy Scout jamboree were to be held, no big problem.

The regulations were there to assist in avoiding a confrontation, or to get rid of a nuisance for which there were no other legal grounds or means. 

When I researched the DEFRA regulations of the *UK* several years ago, it seemed they didn't want to give pigeons the protections accorded *wildlife*, so they classified them as *poultry*. (I was doing this research to see if a British company which owned an American company which was abusing pigeons could be made to put pressure on the U.S. gasoline station. I wanted to see what the _official_ British line on pigeons was). 

You can do things with "poultry" you can't do with "wildlife." You can transport more of them in smaller cages, eat them et cetera. You can carry a chicken without having a special owner's license for a chicken, since you may be planning to eat him.

The rules do not necessarily conform to a scientific or ethical logic. They are made to accommodate some people who want to do things with the birds, and to protect these people from other people who want to do other things with the birds.

The health authorities generally do not want a large number of animals kept close to a residence, or close to neighboring residences. Easier to say, keep the animals a bit away from the house. 

I remember being irritated by two neighboring roosters who crowed periodically all night long to let the other rooster know either to "stay off my turf I'm still here" or "it's two o'clock and all's well." Hot summer weather made me keep the windows open (near Antwerp, Belgium).

It would be hard to make a case of having fifty _pet_ pigeons. You'd have to remember all their names, have individual medical and immunization records to show you really cared, probably have color-coordinated collars or hair ribbons or feather ribbons or some such nonsense to show that yo regarded each "pet" as an individual you communicated and spent quality time with each day. Ad you'd have to remember their birthdays or hatch-days. And blah-blah-blah. (This is considered okay and normal and obligatory with a dog or cat). 

Current status of pigeons in *UK*, according to *DEFRA*: 

http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/diseases/vetsurveillance/poultry/index.htm#poultry


DEFRA
What do we mean by “poultry”?
For the purpose of the Great Britain Poultry Register, the species of poultry which must be registered include:

chickens (including bantams)
turkeys
ducks
geese
partridges
quail
pheasants
*pigeons (reared for meat)*
guinea fowl
ostriches
emus
rheas

So, you can slice and serve a cake many ways: horizontally, vertically, a torus with a piece from the center, crumbled into a pile and weighed out in little stacks: it's still cake. Regulations and ordinances are still legal tools to effect whatever the person(s) devising them want(s). You have to guess at or inform yourself of the *intent* of the rule, more than of the precise nomenclature and wording and and obscure semantics.

Also, our PT members come from different countries with varying terminology, laws, and approaches to pigeons and animals.

Larry


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