# Drug Compatibility?



## superflyer (Sep 13, 2008)

I'm wondering if anyone has info about which of the drugs below are effective if used in combination And if any of the combinations are toxic. I would like to know of your experience using medications together.

Baytril, Doxycycline, Amprolium, Ronidazole, Metronidazole, Secnidazole, Diclazuril.

Baytril together with Doxy is a combo that many recommend. I'm often hear that Amprolium is number one for coccidiosis, but can it be used with Baytril? What about VetaFarm Trizole? Trizole contains Ronidazole, Secnidazole, Diclazuril; Can Trizole be used with Baytril, Doxy or Amprolium? 

I plan to contact VetaFarm directly, and ask my vet and do some research but I would like to hear of your experience. This inquiry is general, it does not pertain to a specific bird.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Amprolium should be used alone. Baytril and Doxy combine well -- and both can be combined with ronidazole or metronidazole. You can combine canker meds, generally. Ronidalzole and metronidazole are a good combination. Secnidazole is often combined with ronidazole. 

When combining meds, though, be aware that all are taxing to the body to some degree, so it is best to use only what is necessary rather than loading up on too many meds at once. 

I don't know about diclazuril, as I don't use it, personally.


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## superflyer (Sep 13, 2008)

Thanks do you have any more info about Amprolium? Purina offers many bird feeds that contain Amprolium. I think the reason Purina medicates some of their bird feed is they know there is a good chance it is contaminated with coccidiosis. Since Purina is offering feed medicated with amprolium people may think the drug is not dangerous.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Diclazuril is the same thing as Appartex, an anti-coccidial. It is a very effective and easy to administer anti-coccidial. If that is what you need...just use Diclazuril/Appartex, skip the Amprolium....

It is OK to use Diclazuril in tandem with the -idazoles and most antibiotics (-cillins, Cipro, doxycycline and the like).

I do not see why anyone would combine Doxy with Baytril, IMHO (?) 

Sounds like that is a person just guessing at the malady. Personally, I would not do that. Start with the wider-net antibiotic of the two (Cipro/Baytril) and if that doesn't seem to be doing anything after around 4 days days, perhaps stop and switch to Doxy (leave 24 hrs. between).

I also don't understand why, if Amprolium is also an anti-coccidial, it cannot be administered while the bird is on an antibiotic ? That sounds odd to me....


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## superflyer (Sep 13, 2008)

Thanks for the info! I heard there are times when both Doxy and Baytril are used since they work in different ways and using both can save a life when time is not available. I seem to remember reading that Baytril is bactricide that goes after bacteria while Doxy stimulates the bodies immune system.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

OK, if you have read definitively that they can be given together. My avian vets never prescribed them together, which is why I commented.


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## Grimaldy (Feb 25, 2007)

HI SF,

Amprolium is a drug that essentially blocks the uptake of certain proteins in s specific species of coccidia, Eimeria. Coccidia are thought to be species specific, that is only certain species attack specific mammals, like chickens, bats, cattle etc. Eimeria however accounts for about 75% of the Coccidia population. Whether it is effective for pigeons, apparently is unknown.

All drugs have adverse reactions, depending on dose, toxicity, absorption, method of uptake, MIC, etc. As you increase the number of drugs you administer you also increase the possibility of an adverse reaction. The problem of course is that a bird can not tell you when an adverse reaction is taking place and it is difficult to know by observation. Until the damage is done good and well.

Needless to say, it makes little sense to administer drugs with a high possibility for an adverse event if a lesser drug will do. Baytril for instance is notorious for several adverse events in humans and some animals. If a bird has a gram negative infection going it is silly to use Baytril when a less dangerous drug will produce better all around results. It makes less sense to administer several drugs without a clear idea of what result is hoped for in the end. In other words, as the physician's creed puts it "First do no harm".


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Sometimes with respiratory complex, Baytril and Doxy are both used together, as they hit both the gram positive and gram negative bacteria in combination -- often with respiratory complex, both types of bacteria are present. 

In cases where the nature of the infection isn't known, sometimes they're also given in combination, if testing isn't available. Aside from yeast, I've never seen an adverse reaction to Baytril, though that doesn't mean it can't happen!

Thanks for the great explanation about Amprolium and the coccidiosis drugs, in general.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

A lot of us use Amprolium with good results...


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## Grimaldy (Feb 25, 2007)

AS long as the Coccida species is Eimeria you can expect good results. If it is not, you get no, or poor results. Since Eimeria accounts for 75% of the Coccidia, the probability is 3 out of 4 times, it works and one fourth of the time nada.

Doxycyline is of course using a sledge hammer to swat flies with respiratory infections, when any beta lactam such as Amoxycillin will do perfectly. One of the principal reasons Doxycycline is not used much these days is the great resistance bacteria have evolved to the drug because of misuse, that is prescribing it when it is completely unnecessary. The result is that an otherwise excellent antibiotic has greatly diminished effectiveness. We should remember that almost all of the avian bacterial infections were acquired from humans, and that includes resistance to antibiotic.

PS> I wrote "gram negative" in my previous post when I should have said "gram positive". My bad.

PS> Gram stain can be easily acquired at any good lab supply store and is relatively easy to use with a cheap high school microscope. Members who have an interest in ID should consider it.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Thanks, Grimaldy -- 

A microscope is on my wish list, to be sure!


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## superflyer (Sep 13, 2008)

Thanks minimonkey and Grimaldy, anybody know where to get a good used inexpensive microscope?


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

You can get a new one on Amazon for quite a reasonable price -- not sure where to get a used one.... maybe ebay? The student grade ones aren't very expensive these days, and that is all an interested layperson is likely to need.


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## superflyer (Sep 13, 2008)

What model do you suggest mini?


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## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

Dont use multivitamins when you use Amprolium,it will make the amprolium use ineffective as amprolium acts by inhibiting Vit B utilization by the coccidia


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