# Pigeon holding its head backwards?



## Boroview Farm (Mar 11, 2010)

Right after I moved my pigeons into their new loft, this pigeon started acting very funny. He holds his head completely backwards. He still eats and drinks with no problem. Any thoughts? Here is the link to the YouTube video of him:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcBXO0xlE00

Thanks,

Michael


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Have your pigeons been vaccinated against Pigeon Paramyxovirus and Paratyphoid?

Please remove him from the loft and keep him in isolation. The twisting of the neck is called torticollis. The most common causes of this particular symptomd are Pigeon Paramyxovirus 
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=12250&referrerid=560 and the meningeal form of paratyphoid. They are both infectious conditions, but the birds can recover.

Is he showing any other symptoms?

Cynthia

5-4-3-2-1


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## Covenant Loft (Feb 10, 2009)

Michael,

Cynthia has given you very sound advice. Also disinfect all your waters and you may want to put some organic ACV in your water to keep it acidic, this will help kill any bacteria from other birds if they have it.

Walter <><


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## Birdman79 (Aug 9, 2007)

It looks like PMV,even if your bird recovers he'll be a carrier.


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## Covenant Loft (Feb 10, 2009)

Birdman79 said:


> It looks like PMV,even if your bird recovers he'll be a carrier.


PMV or paratyphoid if they recover from either one they could still be carriers without you knowing and that can haunt you're breeding program for many years IMO. 

Walter <><


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

*Great article*



Covenant Loft said:


> PMV or *paratyphoid* if they recover from either one they *could still be carriers without you knowing and that can haunt you're breeding program for many years *IMO.
> 
> Walter <><



In this excerpt of an article by Steven Weir...

Paratyphoid: Salmonella causes the disease paratyphoid in pigeons. It is a bacterial infection that causes a multitude of possible symptoms including sudden death of apparently healthy birds of any age, joint infections causing a dropped wing or lameness, infertility in cocks and hens, diarrhea, weight loss, etc, etc. *This is a treatable disease and is best treated with Batril (250 mg/gallon) or Cipro (750 mg/gallon) for 10 14 days. Baytril (and I assume Cipro) has been shown to get rid of the carrier state of salmonella so you no longer must destroy infected birds. *Remember these drugs should not be used while breeding and raising babies. Vaccination is available and is a good idea, especially if you have had a problem with the disease before. The vaccine contains an immune stimulant and seems to really give birds a boost of great health when used about 3 - 4 weeks before the race season. This disease is carried by rodents so you must keep them out of your loft to prevent possible infection in your birds. 

E. coli: This is a related bacteria to Salmonella and PRODUCES THE EXACT SAME SYMPTOMS. It is much more common than salmonella and probably a lot of what people are diagnosing as salmonella based on symptoms alone is actually E. coli infection. You treat E. coli with antibiotics but you should have a culture and sensitivity run before you treat as this bug varies a lot in what drug kills it best. I have made vaccines for some lofts with chronic problems and helped them, but this is not usually needed. E. coli is a big secondary invader and birds that are stressed with worms, coccidia, canker, and other problems tend to be much more susceptible to it. If you have had E. coli problems in the past it is critical that you control all other disease problems to keep it from recurring. 





Healthy Pigeons Win Races - Part 3
This is the last in a three part series taken from the seminar given by Dr. Steve Weir at the 1993 AU convention in Chicago. Updated by Dr. Weir March 16 1999 Using a Veterinarian 

The only way to know if you have coccidia, worms, trichomonas (canker), and haemoproteus is to have fecals, throat swabs, and blood smears done. For all practical purposes it is easier to have a veterinarian do it for you. If you monitor and control these problems before and during the race and breeding seasons, you will be way ahead of the game and can achieve that "Super" health. Using a veterinarian gives you many advantages including: 

You will know if you have a problem. 

You will not treat needlessly 

You will know the proper drug to use. 

You will know the proper dosage of the drug. 

And you will know how long to treat. 

It will cost less $ by far in the long run. 

This following scenario is a typical one that I receive on the phone and by simply using a veterinarian it could be avoided. "Hi Doc. I'm having a terrible problem in my young birds. I had a couple die and my buddy told me it must be canker, so I treated them with emtryl. That didn't work and I had 5 more die. Another friend came and looked at them and said it was coccidia because they had greed droppings so I game them some Amprol. They sort of acted better, but they got bad again so I put them on some Terramycin for salmonella. Since then I have lost 25 more young ones and the ones I have left look terrible. What do you think". I think he could still have a young bird team if he just would have sought professional help 1st. Any veterinarian is capable of doing fecals, throat swabs, and blood smears and it isn't that expensive. If you are having problems and the common things like coccidia, worms, canker, etc. can't be found by your regular vet, just get in contact with one of the pigeon veterinarians around the country. They are very versed in pigeon medicine and would be glad to help. 

A Realistic Health Program
Before YB races: Vaccinate for pox, PMV, and paratyphoid 30 - 45 days before training begins. 

Before breeding in the winter: Vaccinate all old birds, breeders, & YB you are keeping for PMV and paratyphoid. 

This will get all YB vaccinated 2 times for PMV and paratyphoid as youngsters and will give all OB and breeders a yearly booster. 



The above article comes from notes taken during a seminar given by Dr. Steve Weir at the 1993 AU convention. Updated by Dr. Weir March 16 1999 For the I.F. home page. Dr. Weir is a small animal veterinarian in Catoosa Oklahoma. He has flown pigeons successfully for many years and helps pigeon flyers from around the country with health problems. He can be contacted at Catoosa Small Animal Hospital, Box 1559 Catoosa Oklahoma, 74015 918-266-40090 Fax 918-266-4143


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Birdman79 said:


> It looks like PMV,even if your bird recovers he'll be a carrier.


No. Once they stop shedding the virus - around 6 weeks after onset of recognizable symptoms - they are not infectious.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

If they *haven't *been vaccinated for Pigeon PMV then it would be wise to vaccinate the pigeons that are not showing "nervous" symptoms as soon as possible. If it is PMV then, apparently, it spreads through the loft slowly so you can take remedial action.


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## Boroview Farm (Mar 11, 2010)

*Thanks everyone*

Thanks for all the advise and especially the articles. I actually culled him yesterday, b/c he was looking worse and I didn't have any idea what was wrong with him. I disinfected all my waterers last night and will keep an eye on the rest of our birds. All of our birds were vaccinated but perhaps he got through without being dosed.

Thanks again,

Michael


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## Covenant Loft (Feb 10, 2009)

Boroview Farm said:


> All of our birds were vaccinated but perhaps he got through without being dosed.
> 
> Thanks again,
> 
> Michael


Michael,

Were they vaccinated for both PMV and parathyphoid ( sal-bac ) ?
and how long ago were they vaccinated?

Walter <><


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

Boroview Farm said:


> Thanks for all the advise and especially the articles. *I actually culled him yesterday*, b/c he was looking worse and I didn't have any idea what was wrong with him. I disinfected all my waterers last night and will keep an eye on the rest of our birds. All of our birds were vaccinated but perhaps he got through without being dosed.
> 
> Thanks again,
> 
> Michael


That was the easiest thing which you could have done


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> That was the easiest thing which you could have done


Also the most pointless, since it will do nothing to help the situation. If you work to pull a bird through, you learn a lot that will eventually benefit you and your birds.


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## Boroview Farm (Mar 11, 2010)

*It's not like I enjoyed it*



Feefo said:


> Also the most pointless, since it will do nothing to help the situation. If you work to pull a bird through, you learn a lot that will eventually benefit you and your birds.


Since I am brand new to the world of rasing pigeons, and I didn't have the resources of the www at my disposal (we live in the country-no internet), I did the best I knew at the time. To me, my bird looked like it was suffering, and I feel that I did the best thing for him at the time; I still feel that way.

Thank you all for the help. I will be better informed if this should arise again. Perhaps you didn't mean your statement in the way that I am interpreting it, but you shouldn't jump on newbies like me. I don't know what I don't know, but I am trying to become informed.

Thanks again to everyone for the quick help,

Michael


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## Boroview Farm (Mar 11, 2010)

*Not sure but will check tonight...*



Covenant Loft said:


> Michael,
> 
> Were they vaccinated for both PMV and parathyphoid ( sal-bac ) ?
> and how long ago were they vaccinated?
> ...


I haven't been able to reach the man that is helping me get started to ask him. If they have already been vaccinated for both, do they need a booster? If they haven't been vaccinated, do I need to wait any longer before doing so or can I vaccinate right away?


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Boroview Farm said:


> Since I am brand new to the world of rasing pigeons, and I didn't have the resources of the www at my disposal (we live in the country-no internet), I did the best I knew at the time. To me, my bird looked like it was suffering, and I feel that I did the best thing for him at the time; I still feel that way.
> 
> Thank you all for the help. I will be better informed if this should arise again. Perhaps you didn't mean your statement in the way that I am interpreting it, but you shouldn't jump on newbies like me. I don't know what I don't know, but I am trying to become informed.
> 
> ...


Michael .. most of us here are pro-life for pigeons even if they are diseased or injured. Many things can be cured or at least helped. Please don't just give up .. learn from those who are trying to help and to educate you. The loss of this bird was very unfortunate, but we can all go forward from here.

Terry


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## Boroview Farm (Mar 11, 2010)

*Thanks Terry*

We're just as much pro-life for our animals here at my house too! My wife's a veterinarian, so all our animals get really great care. This euthanasia was a result of our ignorance to what was wrong with the bird. To us, we thought we were ending suffering; I now know that what was ailing our bird was probably treatable. I am much better prepared for next time.

Speaking of being prepared, I am actually at home and posting at the same time! I went out and bought a wirless modem from our cell phone provider today. I am now able to surf the net from home. if I have another sick bird question, I won't have to wait to go to work to check this board 

Michael


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Boroview Farm said:


> We're just as much pro-life for our animals here at my house too! *My wife's a veterinarian, so all our animals get really great care. *This euthanasia was a result of our ignorance to what was wrong with the bird. To us, we thought we were ending suffering; I now know that what was ailing our bird was probably treatable. I am much better prepared for next time.
> 
> Speaking of being prepared, I am actually at home and posting at the same time! I went out and bought a wirless modem from our cell phone provider today. I am now able to surf the net from home. if I have another sick bird question, I won't have to wait to go to work to check this board
> 
> Michael



That's really great. Your wife can do gram stains and fecal floats for you, next time you have a sick bird. She must have access to the medications you need to get your birds well if they get sick.


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