# Dog bite



## Hekie (Apr 2, 2018)

Hi all,

I just found a pigeon with a hole in what looks like its crop. It's an open wound and isn't bleeding (now - there is dry blood), but doesn't look good. Pretty sure it's a dog bite. Edited to add: it's not a dog bite, it's likely a seagull attack. Is this type of wound something survivable?
Does anyone have experience with this type of injury? 

The bird is warm and in the dark. I've given him some pain relief but don't have anything else at hand. I'm not cleaning the wound because it's a literal hole and I don't know what's coming out of it. The bird is semi-alert - easy to catch, struggled a fair bit when I was holding him, but one eye is closed.

I've contacted my usual avian vet who is very good with pigeons and he will hopefully see us in the morning if he's available (12 hrs from now) if the bird survives the night. Right now, I'm not too hopeful about that.

I've previously only had birds with broken wings, legs or infections. No idea if they can fix something like this. I've asked the vet in my message whether euthanasia tonight might be kinder but of course I don't want to do that, I just don't want him to suffer if there's nothing to be done. I haven't taken a photo of the wound which would help here and for the vet, but I don't want to disturb the poor thing again.


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## bootface (Jun 29, 2017)

I’ve cared for several birds with ruptured crops. It just needs to be cleaned and stitched up. The bird might need supportive care, at the very least he will need to be fed small portions several times a day. You’ll want to closely monitor hydration and crop motility. 
Id probably only euthanize if there’s too much damages tissue to close the wound, or the bird is too weak to survive the procedure. If the crop isn’t punctured, you probably just need to clean it and give him antibiotics. Spinal trauma is a possibility but we can’t tell without an exam. 

It’s great that you’re taking him to the vet, he’ll be able to help much more than we can.


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## Hekie (Apr 2, 2018)

Thank you, that's really good to know that they can survive this. There may well be other injuries but I hope not. I just got a reply from the vet and we've got a 9:30am appointment so I'll hope that he'll make it through the night. I've named him Gael. I just checked on him and he's on one of the USB heating pads I recently bought and they seem to be working well. They're new, so I hope they keep working all night.

The actual injury looked fairly gruesome. I didn't look too closely to be honest, but I'm reasonably sure I saw a piece of corn so I think the crop is open. I feed the flock in the area (with corn in the mix) so it's almost certainly one of mine though not one of the few I recognise. Poor wee thing.

Conveniently, I'm working from home tomorrow so getting to the vet and any meds/food etc can be dealt with more easily than other days of the week. This is my fourth this year though, it's ridiculous. The first two died and I released the other one two weeks ago, after five weeks with us. It's usually about one injured pigeon every four months but the first three months of this year have been terrible for them.

Anyway, thank you for letting me know there's hope. I wasn't looking so much for vet advice but more to see if others had seen pigeons survive similar types of injuries. I hope he makes it to the vet and then we'll really see what can be done.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Hi Hekie!

I have too more than one experience with holes in the crop. 

Last summer I rescued an adult dove badly injured by a predator (probably a seagull), she had bad holes in her crop (and other wounds on her body)

The vet had to stitch it up. I had to give her an oral antibiotic for 13 days. I also had to disinfect the wounds (I used Éosine 2%) then apply an antibiotic cream for 13 days twice a day.

I had to feed her soft food for 2/3 days (I left her available some biscuits and gave her baby bird formula. This is how I gave it to her: I made small balls having the size of small peas - not too hard not too soft - with bird formula and water and I hand fed them).

The vet told me to daily monitor the holes in the crop (you have to be sure that nothing spill out from them) and the other wounds.

At the end of the antibiotic treatment I gave her vitamins and probiotics.

Anyway, let us know something after the visit, I really hope that Gael survives the night.

Ps: have you released Perséfone in that park?


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Hekie, thank you for helping the poor bird. Hope he does ok. Pigeons are tough. Our first beloved Phoebe had a broken wing and was nearly decapitated but she recovered and was a happy and beloved bird for eight more years. Please keep us posted.


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## Hekie (Apr 2, 2018)

Thank you both for your posts, that is really comforting to hear. Gael has survived the night! I'm so pleased. The vet appointment is in one hour. He has been moving around in the night and sitting on the heating pads and standing. I think he may have had some of the water as well (it has sugar and salt in it). This one is strong. I will update after the appointment but I hope he will survive.

Colombina, hi







Funnily enough, just before I read your post I realised that a seagull attack was much more likely than a dog. I suspect that is what has happened. Just last week I saw a seagull pull an adult pigeon out of a wall where the pigeons live, kill it and eat nearly the whole thing. It was horrible. I only saw it once before and it's made me so worried for Perséfone. 

Yes, I released her! But near my house in the end. I took her to the park to fly and socialise but the pigeons there weren't very friendly to her and I was worried about the experience we had, so I decided to release her where she was familiar. It was on International Women's Day (March 8 ). She socialised with other pigeons and stayed near me for about 10 minutes and then did her first solo long flight and she went reeeeeeally far. I was very impressed. Then, by complete coincidence, I was walking with my cat at the other end of the neighbourhood an hour later and I saw her again





















She was with all the other pigeons in the second flock near my apartment. I haven't seen her since then, even though I've looked. I hope she found another flock close by and is OK. 

I've been trying to catch another injured pigeon in my flock but I haven't been successful. She has strong around her foot and the leg has become useless. She's one of the only pigeons I recognise because I see her a lot and she has distinctive markings. I'm so sad about it, but I just haven't been able to catch her and help her. Now, this little guy has turned up. Maybe he will be OK. Let's hope so.


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## Hekie (Apr 2, 2018)

I'm coming back from the vet now. Gael is surprisingly strong in spite of his injury. A real fighter. He also has a peck in the eye which is why one eye was mostly closed, but his wings and legs seem fine. 

He'll stay at the vet - David (vet) will operate today and then assuming it goes OK, will keep Gael for at least a couple of days. The biggest risk is infection, as others have already said. It's a big hole, and the vet isn't optimistic but as he said, he will try his best and he likes a lost cause and always has. Gael is in good hands. 

Please keep your fingers crossed for him. It turns out he is only a baby. I couldn't tell in the dark last night as I mostly just settled him in and left him.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Have my fingers crossed for Gael. Hope he is all better soon.


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## Hekie (Apr 2, 2018)

I've heard from the vet. Gael has had surgery and is alive, but the vet isn't optimistic. As we could see, there's a large piece of skin torn away which was difficult to fix. Please keep hoping for him. He's really done amazingly well to survive all of this, but the odds aren't in his favour. At least he's got pain relief and if he goes in the night, he's warm and not in pain. I hate the thought of it, though. He's really spunky and has fought so hard until now.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Am hoping for the best for Gael and you.


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## Hekie (Apr 2, 2018)

Thank you, I appreciate the good thoughts.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Sorry for the late reply, Hekie. I had a busy, tiring and stressful day...

Thanks for the update. I really hope that Gael can make it and recover well. Even my dove was in a bad condition (I got scared when I saw her wounds and holes) but recovered well from her physical injuries (she is still traumatized even if, little by little, she is making some progress) so I want to be optimistic. My birds and I are keeping the fingers crossed! 

In France I saw too from my balcony seagulls chasing and eating pigeons... I know they are predators, it's in their nature but it was terrible... My vet told me that he often has to care (or to try to care) about pigeons attacked by seagulls..

I'm glad to know that Perséfone release was successful, I really hope she is fine and maybe found a boyfriend. Hope you can see her again!

I'm sorry you couldn't catch the other pigeon...unfortunately sometimes it's really hard or impossible to catch them... In France (at least in the city where I live) there are a lots of pigeons missing toes, a foot (or even both...) because people discard on the ground plastic threads, fishing lines, etc... I often have to pick them up and throw them away... I have a friend who does the same... Do you have the same problem in Spain? Btw here I posted a petition asking to prohibit the sale of trash bags having a plastic string instead of handles.

https://www.pigeons.biz/forums/#/topics/111201?page=1

Anyway, I really really hope that Gael will recover soon! I know you have an excellent vet but if you need any advice feel free to ask. I cared about another dove who had a hole in his crop and others injuries. I found him in the parking of an Italian supermarket, a car hit him. He recovered well but became blind in one eye. 

Keep us updated. 

PS: the pigeon in the photo is Geordi, my blind pigeon.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Oh I forgot to ask... What bad experience did you have? You mentioned it when you talked about Perséfone release. Sorry for the question, I'm just curious 🙄...

Any update from your vet?


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## Hekie (Apr 2, 2018)

Gael is doing well! The vet was really surprised. He's a fighter, this one. He is still in danger, especially from infection. He will stay at the vet for now. I was super happy when the vet called me.

I will post more later, thanks for your messages Colombina. I wanted to let everyone know that for now, he is alive and trying to stay that way.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Great news 😊, thanks so much for the update! I hope he will be soon out of danger!


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## Hekie (Apr 2, 2018)

Aw, Geordi <3 

Thanks for the good wishes. I didn't update yesterday but I spoke to the vet at 15:30 Friday and he again had good news. Gael is still doing well. The vet is really surprised. He is still at risk - infection is probably the biggest worry now - but for now he is still good. He also ate for the first time (liquid food). 

David (vet) is very kind and he has taken Gael home with him this weekend to care from him. He will call if anything bad happens but otherwise I will speak with him on Monday for an update. I'm super, super happy. There is still a high risk but for now, he is doing well. If he recovers enough to eat on his own, then he will come home with me to continue his recovery.

Yes, we have the same problem here (and in New Zealand) with thread and hair and things getting caught in pigeons' feet. It's such a shame. I pick things up when I see them, too. Sera (the pigeon I couldn't catch) has adapted well. There are two others in the flock who have hair or thread around their feet but it's not causing any injury (yet). I will try and help them.

It wasn't a "bad" experience with Perséfone exactly. The other pigeons were not sociable with her like the ones in my neighbourhood (probably because of me, not her - the ones in my neighborhood recognise me and come close for food). And the park is really big but there aren't so many pigeons there as near my house. It just didn't feel quite right. However, now that I have seen these attacks from the gulls in my neighbourhood, I think I will probably choose to release other birds in the park in future.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Thanks for the update.
Let us know something tomorrow! I'm feeling optimistic 😊!


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## Hekie (Apr 2, 2018)

Meet Gael 🙂 You can't see his scar or missing feathers properly in this photo - it's pretty impressive! 

Unexpectedly, the vet told me that he could come home with me yesterday. He is not on solid food yet - I have to crush the food into a powder. And he is hungry but he can only have a little bit, three times a day. His crop is not working properly (yet) so he can't process food like normal. But he is very lively and fights me when I give him his medication. He was alone while I was at work today and he was just fine when I arrived home.

Right now, the biggest risk to his life is infection. I am changing the paper in his cage frequently, and putting antiseptic on his wound regularly. If he doesn't get an infection and gets better, the biggest barrier to release is his eye. It turns out that he doesn't have full sight in one eye right now because the seagull pecked him. I am giving him eye drops. 

We go step-by-step, but I am thrilled that he has survived and is doing well so far. Thank you for your good wishes and support, and please keep thinking of him!!!


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Thanks so much for the update and for the photo, Hekie. Gael is so lovely! 

I'm really glad to know that he came home with you, it means that your vet is optimistic 😊. 

I understand, a blind eye could be a serious problem. In the bad case, could your vet help you to find a good home for him? I know you can't adopt him.. 

Anyway, keep us updated. We are still keeping our fingers crossed (even Geordi 😉 ) .


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I hope you are hand feeding him. Not sure what that was in his dish? 
Even if not safe near your house for releasing them, they do need to be released into a flock. They won't survive out there unless part of a flock. It isn't safe most places when you are a pigeon, unfortunately. Glad he is doing better. If the vet is concerned about infection, then he should have given you an oral antibiotic for him.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Glad to hear Gael is doing well!


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## Hekie (Apr 2, 2018)

Thanks all.

Colombina, hopefully the vet can help with that, if it's needed. It will be tricky, but I have a smallish network of pigeon people here and there are some organisations which work with pigeons. Hopefully I can find him a home if he can't be freed.

Jay3, no need to worry. Aware of all that and have a good pigeon vet.

I'll keep you updated. He is a fiesty one!


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

I'm glad to know that in the bad case you could help him to find a good home! 

I had too to feed for a few days soft food to my dove (she was an adult and fortunately didn't have crop problems), I gave her small balls of baby birds formula and left her available some pieces of biscuit. When Gael will feel better you could try too to leave him available some small pieces of biscuit (something simple without chocolate, marmalade, etc), usually birds love it and it is a soft food. 

When he will finish his antibiotic treatment, you could give him a complete vitamin supplement and probiotics, they would be helpful. 

Your vet seems a great doctor and an excellent man!

Please keep us updated 😊! 

Ps: you can see in the photo the dove badly attacked by the seagull. Her wounds healed well. She is still traumatized but little by little she's making progress.


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## Hekie (Apr 2, 2018)

All, I am so sorry for my delays in replying here. Work is killing me! And then with the addition of a pigeon into my daily routine, I am just very tired right now (though not as tired as when I had three wild kittens I caught, oh my god that was so exhausting).

Colombina, I just saw your photo and your dove is adorable! So, so sweet. Does she have a name? I have never found an injured dove in my neighbourhood and I've always been surprised about that. But there aren't as many doves as pigeons, so I guess it's not such a big surprise. It is one of the doves who first started recognising me and following me. They are lovely, but they can be so violent towards each other! Whenever I feed the flock, there is always an angry dove who chases another dove away from the food. The pigeons never do that.

Anyway, I have overall very good news  Sweet Gael (who I suspect is in fact a fighty, fighty girl rather than a boy) is doing incredibly well. I have been changing the paper towels in his cage three times a day to rid it of poo/reduce the risk of infection, and cleaning his wound three times a day as well as giving the eye drops. He (she) is strong as a freaking ox. And has been since the moment I found him. I have had a few pigeons with me now, but never a fighter like this wee one. You'd never know about the injury; it's quite remarkable.

For now, he continues to get antibiotics via his water, and I am grinding up Harrisons finest bird food into nearly a powder and giving him a small-ish amount three times a day, to ensure that his crop doesn't get overworked and he can process the food. He eats fine on his own, and I cannot wait until the vet says that I can re-introduce regular seeds for him to eat. He's going to absolutely love it.

We went to the vet yesterday evening for his check-up and the vet couldn't believe how good the wound looks. We both thought he wouldn't survive and that there wasn't enough skin to cover the hole, but yep - there was! I have formed a lovely friendship with the vet, he is such a kind, caring man. I really love watching him care for the birds, it's quite beautiful.

The only bad news is that it does seem that Gael is blind in one eye, at least for now. It is terrible luck because he has survived such a bad injury and one peck in the eye is the bigger problem. However, we are going to wait and see, and hopefully the haemorrhage disperses with some time as it's still very early days. I really hope it does, and that he can return to the wild. At the moment, it is like two different birds - the calm one, when I approach on the side with his bad eye, and the FIGHTY one when he sees me coming with his good eye  

Thankfully, the weather remains in a good enough state that he can spend the days I'm at work mostly out on the terrace in his cage, sunbathing but without getting overheated. I heard him make a couple of unusual sounds just before and got up to check on him in his cage, and he was dreaming, awwwww. we will return to the vet in two weeks for his next check-up.

Thank you all for your support with him. Let's hope that his eye heals with time.

Colombina, do you have a particular vitamin supplement and probiotics you would recommend to me, for pigeons?


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Don't worry for the late reply, Hekie, no need to apologize.

Thanks so much for the update, I'm really really happy to know that Gael is doing so well! What a wonderful news 😀 ! He is so lucky he found you and your fantastic vet (lol I'm a little envious of your vet 😅 ) . You are really doing a great job with him!

I really hope that the haemorrhage will disperse as time goes by...I know, a blind eye means a blind side...Anyway, let's see, we are all keeping our fingers crossed! 

I think that Oropharma Versele Laga products are available there. If I'm right, you could look for Omni-vit (it's a complete vitamin supplement: vitamins, amino acids and trace elements) and for Probi-Zyme.


https://www.versele-laga.com/en/oropharma/produkte/oropharma-omni-vit


https://www.versele-laga.com/en/oropharma/produkte/oropharma-probi-zyme



Uhmm 😏 I haven't chosen a name yet for my dove: on one hand, she is a big fighter, a warrior because she survived to that terrible attack, on the other she is still recovering from her trauma and seems so helpless...not easy to find a name...Anyway, I love doves. Yes, they are lovely and sweet but, as you said, they can be so violent towards each other! From my balcony, in France, I even saw a dove drive away a crow! In the south of France there are many doves, the weather is always good so I'm not surprised about that. I'm really surprised to see so many here. I'm spending some time in my country home in Italy (we are, liiittle by liiittle, renovating it). Here the winters are really cold and foggy but I see (and hear) doves everywhere! In the pic you can see them visiting my garden (well, I should say wood/jungle instead of garden...).

Anyway, keep us updated! 

Ps: how is Beth doing?


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## Hekie (Apr 2, 2018)

Hi Colombina! I'm finally on holiday, woo-hoo. And I found a new bird yesterday which was perfect timing - I'll tell you about her in a moment.

First, Gael. He (I still think "she") is definitely blind in one eye. So I xant release him. I have started looking for a home for him today - I will need a lot of luck. For now, he has finished his medicine, and the neck wound has healed very, very well. He's already grown feathers over it. He is enjoying eating a normal seed mix again 🙂 I had a friend staying this week so he couldn't fly around, but now that I am on holiday I will make sure that he gets to stretch his wings.

Beth is feeling sick today (hairball - she will be OK soon) but she is otherwise very good. I can't wait to spend two weeks at home with her <3 Thank you for asking.

Now, for the new arrival. This is the first time I've had two birds together, and also my first dove. I saw her on the footpath yesterday when I was with Beth, and she didn't move and I could nearly catch her which didn't seem normal. She is very young (4 weeks old) and the first baby dove I've seen. But then she flew up in a tree and is thought she was fine. Then, Beth and is returned home 50 minutes later and she was back on the footpath. It was an area with a lot of people sitting in a café, and it seemed weird. I tied Beth up briefly and went to see if I could catch her. This time, I did. I checked her mouth and there was some liquid. So I took her home and then made an appointment with the vet for both Gael and her (I have named her Stefania). I honestly thought that she was probably fine and I was overreacting, and I had stolen a baby from her parents. 

It turns out she's very sick, and the vet thought she would have died in a couple of hours. She has canker really badly. I am injecting her with medicine because it's so serious. She is lively, and I really hope she makes it. I'm mostly worried right now that she is not really eating and very small. Please send us good luck! She is the cutest thing ever; so, do adorable.

You're right about my vet, he is really fantastic. I'm very lucky.


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## Hekie (Apr 2, 2018)

Thank you for the vitamin recommendation. I have some vitamins for Stefania so I am giving them to Gael as well. I will look for the one you recommended. 

Let me know when you choose a name for your dove. What a darling.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Hekie, if the new bird has canker, would isolate her from Gael.


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## Hekie (Apr 2, 2018)

Have done, cwebster! I had them in (separate) carriers side by side in the taxi on the way to the vet because I was aware there could be something contagious with the little one, but they've been separated once it was clear she was sick. I think the bigger cross-contamination risk is in the poo as I change the paper in their cages, or wipe one of them down. I'm being careful.


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## Hekie (Apr 2, 2018)

I'm adding a photo of Gael (his good eye side) and here is a video of Stefania, my cat Beth and Gael on the terrace this afternoon 🙂

https://youtu.be/ZGWuXA_dAsg


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Hi Hekie, thank you for the update and for the photo, I really hope that you will find a wonderful home for Gael soon. BTW he is really cute! 

Just a few advices about contamination risk: change your clothes when you have to handle a sick bird (for feeding, giving the med, cleaning his cage, etc), wear them just for him; wash carefully your hands; have a pair of slippers specific for the room where you leave your healthy bird free to move and walk (wear them just in that room); keep the birds in separated rooms.

I read about Stefania even in your other threads, I really really hope she makes it. I saw the video, she is absolutely lovely and sweet.
Last December we rescued a young pigeon who was entirely blocked by canker, I thought he was going to die. We had to fight hard but he won his battle against it, a Christmas miracle! I will write you more about him tomorrow, we called him Chris.

Thanks for the video, I'm glad to see Beth! She looks fine! She is a very beautiful cat! 

Of course, I will let you know when I choose a name for my dove.


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## Hekie (Apr 2, 2018)

Stefania died about an hour ago, Colombina. It was so sad. She had been struggling to breathe overnight. I tried to feed her which was a stupid thing to do. Her breathing got worse and I tried desperately to clear some of the canker out but it didn't work. If it were a few hours later we could have gone to the vet. Times like this I really wish I were a vet - I didn't know how to safely remove the canker. I think she was so close to being OK. RIP. I really cared about her a lot, she was very dear.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Oh Hekie, I'm really really sorry to hear she didn't make it.
I know you really cared a lot about her, you gave her all your help and your love. Sometimes, unfortunately, we can't just save them. Sometimes, even a good vet can't save them. I know how you feel because I lost too some birds (other than my wonderful cat Kira), I'm so so sorry. 

When I read about Stefania I thought about a baby dove who had too a bad canker and some liquid in her beak. We rescued her in summer 2014, I brought her to a vet (not my current vet), we started the treatment but unfortunately she died in a couple of days.

When you feel better, I will tell you about the use of povidone iodine (Betadine) in canker in add to the med. You could talk about it with your vet and maybe try it next time. I learned about this method from my French vet.

Anything you need I'm here 💜 . 
A big hug.


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## Hekie (Apr 2, 2018)

Thank you, Colombina. I'm frustrated with myself for again making a wrong decision like with Luisa. If I'd chosen differently, I think Stefania would have survived. 

This process of learning from birds dying is incredibly painful. I felt particularly attached to this little one right away and I'm so upset I pulled her through yesterday when she nearly died then made the wrong decision today and she's gone. I really wanted her to be a happy story. She brought me a lot of joy these past two days. I buried her in the big park.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

I perfectly understand how you feel Hekie. I'm sure you tried your best. She spent her last days in a warm place, loved and cared by a wonderful person like you, I think that this is an important thing. I'm sure Stefania felt your love. You know, I think she is now happily flying with all the birds we lost and with my beloved cat Kira. They are watching over us. 

I just want to tell you about the use of povidone iodine in case of canker shown in the beak/throat so you could talk about it with your vet.
In France some vets (I learned this method from my current vet) suggest to apply inside the beak/throat povidone iodine (Betadine 10%): you have to dip a Q-tip in it (just be careful, the Q-tip must not bee too impregnated with Betadine) then gently apply it topically twice a day. 

As I want to give you all the informations, I know that not all vets agree with this method. Personally I always follow this suggestion (even for yeasts, I will talk about it if you want). 

Here you can read the informations found by Howl about povidone iodine:

https://www.pigeons.biz/forums/#/topics/116644

Try to stay strong, Gael and Beth need you!

Edit: sorry I wrote Giovanna instead of Stefania, I corrected it... Last day my neighbor gave me her phone number and her name is Giovanna...sorry...


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Am so sorry to hear Stefania didnt make it. I have lost creatures of all kinds trying to save them and it always hurts. My vet used to say focus on the ones you save and dont look back. Thank you for trying to save Stefania.


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## Hekie (Apr 2, 2018)

Thank you both very much for your kind words. It helped.

I felt horrible in the first days after Stefania died. I am accepting it now but I'm trying not to think about her too much. This is one baby where I will always wish desperately that there had been a different outcome.

Gael is doing well and I have started looking for a home for him. He has three options so far, but one is very far away and two are if he's and girl! Which I actually think he is and I have thought that for a while. But I won't know for sure until s/he's a lot older.

Colombina, that is very interesting about your canker treatment. So you apply it to the mouth and throat, and the canker growth itself?? Stefania's was juge and blocked her whole throat. One major issue that I have is that I do not speak Spanish perfectly so I cannot have the depth of discussions I would like to have with my vet. I manage OK, but not well enough to discuss some of this. I need to ask him about what medicines he is giving me as well - he doesn't tell me the specific names, which makes it hard to share here with other people who could also give me advice.

I just found a new baby bird. I will start a new thread. What is going on this year, there are so many!?


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## Ladygrey (Dec 10, 2016)

I had a orphan pigeon from my domestic flock, he was about a week or so old when the parents stopped feeding him, I hand fed that baby for another three weeks, but he just stopped developing, he was at a stand still and I could not figure it out, he just was not hardy enough to grow and develop, I got so attached to his funny fuzzy orange color, he was so sweet and a real trooper, he passed away, just sitting in his nest I made for him in a laundry basket. It is sad and sometimes that is just nature. We have to accept these things or I would go crazy! Lol. I’m sorry for your loss. If you get into the rehabbing of birds this will happen again , but it in no way reflects on the super care you give.

To add, keep in mind, if a bird can be picked up, they are very sick already, a bird that has gone down is a hard case to treat and cure, it can be done but for that reason that is why some veterinarians do not treat birds. People bring birds to the vet for a reason and the vet already knows that bird may die if it is showing illness , well this can reflect badly on the vet when the bird dies, so they stay clear of birds. Avian vets have a special place in my heart..lol.. they can explain this to the owners of the pet bird well. So when we find a bird down you already have an uphill battle, but kudos to the ones who try and succeed!


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## Hekie (Apr 2, 2018)

Thanks for your kind words, Ladygrey. I'm very sorry for the loss of your little buddy as well. It's very heartbreaking to try and help these birds. But there is also so much joy.

My sister re-trained as a vet after a business career and she always recites the lecture name they had when they covered birds: "A sick bird is a dead bird." She has birds herself, and was lucky to have one of her wee ones pull through a bad situation where she was sure she'd lose him. They definitely don't handle trauma very well. I'm super glad to have the reptile warming pads I bought. They work really well.


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## Hekie (Apr 2, 2018)

I have a question about Gael's age. How old would you think he might be based on this photo? I won't state the age I thought so as not to influence your opinions. 

I ask because I thought he was younger but I just noticed this afternoon that his good eye is now bright orange, which is the adult colour in my flock.


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## Hekie (Apr 2, 2018)

And another angle.


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## Ladygrey (Dec 10, 2016)

Infection is the killer in cases with wounds, esp if it was a dog or cat. So antibiotics ASAP is recommended. The vet should clean the wound and maybe use surgical glue if it’s not abscessed or an abscess.


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## Friend John (Jun 10, 2018)

Gael looks to me like he's 40-50 days old.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Hekie said:


> Thank you both very much for your kind words. It helped.
> 
> I felt horrible in the first days after Stefania died. I am accepting it now but I'm trying not to think about her too much. This is one baby where I will always wish desperately that there had been a different outcome.
> 
> ...


Yes, I apply Betadine to the mouth/throat and to the growth itself. I apply it even in case of yeast (as alternative, you could apply Éosine 2%. If you can read French - I remember you worked in Paris so maybe you can speak it - here is a link about yeasts, you can read there about Éosine

http://www.colombophiliefr.com/maladies/muguet.htm

).

Of course, the disinfectant is something more than the main treatment (I mean the medicine). 

As medicine for canker, a few years ago I started using spartrix (carnidazole), personally I had good results with it even in bad cases of canker. I think that the direct contact of spartrix on the canker may be helpful. I could explain you how I gave it to Chris. 

I understand what you meant about the language, even my French is not perfect.. Fortunately my vet speaks a perfect Italian (he is French but loves Italy so spends a lot of time there!). If I can ask it, where are you from? 

I'm glad to hear that Gael is doing well! Three options are a good start, I hope you will find him (or, better, her !) a wonderful home soon. 

I'm going to read your other thread. 

BTW Happy Easter 😊!


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## Hekie (Apr 2, 2018)

Happy belated Easter, Colombina and to all.

Friend John, thanks for your guess - I was worried that he may be older than I'd thought but your guess makes me feel much better. I estimate him to be around 70 days old now. He was bigger than my last baby when I found him, so I suspect five weeks or older. And he weighed a whopping 265g!!! So he may be older but clearly I'm in the right ballpark which is reassuring.

Colombina, thanks for the info - I'll gather it all together from the different threads to better understand canker. I do mostly read French, though it's been a while.

Gael has had another option open up so it's a matter of deciding which imperfect option will be best. None of them are bad, just not perfect. I will let you know what I decide. At the moment I think the bet option is if he goes to my friend in Galicia. 

I had two more birds in the last 12 hours, it's just ridiculous. I've had four in two weeks and it's exhausting. The one yesterday, my workmates contacted me while I'm on holiday because there was a sick pigeon on the terrace of our office. I opted for euthanasia and it was so sad. It's the first time I've done that with a bird. The one today was a blackbird and Beth found it (as per usual). I got very lucky because a neighbour who also helps birds was walking her dogs. We caught it together, I ran home to get a carrier and some parasite spray (poor thing was covered in them) and she has taken the bird home to care for it. She also took and scalped baby pigeon a few months ago that I found, but didn't have room to care for (I had three wild kittens at the time). So I hope that the bird today will have a happy ending. RIP to Marquesa, the pigeon who died yesterday 😞


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Is that a string around his neck?


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## Hekie (Apr 2, 2018)

Jay3, I say this as respectfully as possible, but I would appreciate that if you comment on my posts that you please don't start from the assumption that I have no idea what I am doing or am harming my pigeons. I have noticed it since I joined the site and I don't think you mean it badly (I can be blunt, myself) and I respect that you have a knowledge and probably a lot of frustrations from people who don't follow your good advice, but it is incredibly insulting. I do not owe you explanations about basic care issues. I hope this won't happen again but if it does, please know that I won't respond. 

Of course it is not string around Gael's neck. The flight suit is a bit big so as per their instructions - and of no effect to him - you can put a bit of string or ribbon through the elastic arm/wing straps to bring them closer together and improve the fit. Both this and the Aviator harness I use with the pigeons are safe and comfortable for them, and I'm always with them when they're in use.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Here you can find helpful informations about canker and others illnesses and injuries, baby pigeons, etc:

https://www.pigeonrescue.co.uk/




Here is another useful link:

http://www.chevita.com/en/pigeons/symptoms/

So let us know what you will decide about Gael! 

I hope that the blackbird will be fine soon (you are lucky, your neighbor seems a really good person).They are so nice, I saw a lot of them in the garden of my Italian country home (I'm back to France). Keep us updated!


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## Hekie (Apr 2, 2018)

Thanks for the links, Colombina. I'll let you know about Gael!


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

You're welcome 😊.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Hi Hekie, I just want to tell you that I finally gave a name to my dove: Doris.

Hope you, Beth and all your "patients" are fine! Have a found a good home for Gael?


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## Hekie (Apr 2, 2018)

Colombina, hi 🙂 That's a sweet name. I hope she's doing well.

I waited to reply to you because this week was a big one for all the animals. I have gone frome two pigeons to one. I released Ruth, and Gael arrived to HER new home (confirmed she is a girl). I only have Sabrina now - she got her cast off this week and her broken leg is healing very well! It's all good news for the pigeons.

The cats I am trapping have been more complicated. I started trapping street cats a few weeks ago - it's a colony where I have caught kittens before, and due to some changed circumstances in their environment, I've been trying to catch the pregnant girls and any kittens. It is going very well overall. At one point I had three cats and three pigeons! This week, I trapped a sick cat though, so it's difficult.

About Gael. On Thursday night she travelled to Madrid in a van (6.5 hour drive). I was very nervous. However, everything was perfect and she is now in the sanctuary where she will spend the rest of her life. She appears in the second half of this video, coming out of the blue cage with dog bones on it:

https://www.instagram.com/tv/Bya0TR0oWJC/?igshid=6jlo8v4hxu9j

As you can see, she immediately had the attention of one of the boy pigeons! I am filled with joy at this outcome. I think she will be so happy in their huge aviary (it is 40m2) with all her new friends. It is a wonderful outcome for this little baby. It is very weird seeing all the empty pigeom cages, but there will always be more.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Glad to hear from you, Hekie 😊.

I'm so happy to hear these good news!
I saw the video: yes, surely Gael has an admirer! A nice guy lol! I'm sure she will have a happy life in her new home. 

I'm also really glad to hear that Sabrina is doing very well!

Btw, you are doing a great job with pigeons and cats! They are lucky to have you, your dedication to animals is admirable!

I hope that the sick cat will feel better soon, keep me updated!


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## Hekie (Apr 2, 2018)

<3 Colombina, thank you as always for your kindness and kind words. 

The kitten, Rafael, is doing incredibly well. I am looking for a home for him now, and he is just a wonderful, well-rounded kitten. He is a joy to have at home. Perhaps less for Beth, who gets chased a lot.

Very amusingly, last night I caught Victoria the cat for a second time in my trap!!! Poor girl. I released her, of course. There are a lot of cats in the colony but she really likes the food!

I will take Sabrina out flying over the weekend to stretch her wings and see how she interacts with the other pigeons. Hopefully I can release her in the next two weeks.

I am on my terrace now with Rafael, Beth, Sabrina and a pigeon I call Violet who is eating the seeds I put out. It's a lovely Friday evening. I hope that yours is the same 🙂


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## Hekie (Apr 2, 2018)

About the sick cat, his sickness is permanent. After reading a lot about it and talking to some people, I released him in the colony last Saturday. Now that he is castrated, he is less likely to fight and spread the sickness. He escaped the small bedroom while he was here so there is a very small risk that he infected Beth or Rafael. But it is a very very small risk. I will test Beth in some months. For Rafael, they would do blood tests before they de-sex him. It was scary, but I don't think there is any big risk.


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## Hekie (Apr 2, 2018)

These are some videos of Beth and Rafael 🙂

https://youtu.be/BCqY6pgDIbM

https://youtu.be/XAJToNhvY-Y

https://youtu.be/fheMxN3Fx6A


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## Hekie (Apr 2, 2018)

And this is dear Sabrina <3


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Thanks for the update and for the videos and photos, Hekie. 

Rafael is soo sweet and beautiful! I'm really glad to know he is doing incredibly well!!
I'm sorry to hear about the small "accident" with the sick cat, let me know something when you will test Beth and Rafael, I'm sure they are both fine.

Do you think to release Sabrina in that park? Let us know if she will enjoy her walking over the weekend! Btw she is really cute, she has very smart and sweet eyes 😊.


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## Hekie (Apr 2, 2018)

I will let you know when I test them 🙂

Thank you for the nice comments. Today I de-stringed my first pigeon! It is one I tried to catch before and both its feet were wrapped in red wool and twine. It was walking really badly. Today I caught it while I was walking with both cats! Rafael is not good with pigeons like Beth. He was pouncing at them haha. But he's not very good (yet). I managed to remove all of it, even the parts that were nearly bonded to the skin. Hopefully she gets back the use of both feet but at least one of them was perfect. I'm so happy. I walked home with both cats and also the pigeon in my backpack haha. I released her about half an hour later and she stayed and enjoyed some seeds so she wasn't too traumatised.

I took Sabrina out for the first time tonight and she doesn't even have a limp like the vet said she would! Her leg has healed so well, you wouldn't even know it was broken. However, her tail is in a terrible state. You've recommended me vitamins and things before, could you suggest something for this? The seed mix I feed is good but she's lost so many tail feathers since being with me. I wonder if she is really stressed - probably 😞

I'm attaching a photo of her tail so you can see how bad it is. I don't know whether they can grow new feathers to replace the bad ones or you have to wait for them to fall out and re-grow. I may start a new thread for advice about this.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

The supplements specific for moulting period like Muta-Vit Oropharma are rich in amino acids so they could help in situations of feathers problems.

"Oropharma Muta-Vit is a special blend of vitamins, amino acids and trace elements, with high content of sulphurous amino acids and biotin. This dietary supplement promotes feather development and condition, strengthens the plumage, protects the liver and ensures an optimal metabolism. Muta-Vit helps to prevent fright moulting. During the moult, the bird is subject to stress. An optimal supplement to the feed is necessary then. The sulphurous amino acids in Muta-Vit are essential for the production of keratin, the building material for feathers and skin. Biotin ensures good quality keratin. This guarantees a fast and good moult.
Ideal for the moult: promotes plumage development and feather condition
Strengthens the plumage
Helps to prevent fright moulting"

https://www.versele-laga.com/en/oropharma/produkte/oropharma-muta-vit

You could also look for a product like the one in the pics (it's for plucking problems); when I rescued the two glued birds my vet gave me it to help their feathers to grow back.

I noticed that many feathers are broken (do you keep her in a cage/box? Maybe she broke them trying to escape from it), yes, you have to wait for them to fall out and regrow. Just the missing ones are going to immediately grow back. 
Of course, you need to be sure that all her feathers are back and in good condition before releasing her. 
Anyway, I'm really glad to hear that her leg healed in an excellent way! What a great news! 

Over the years we de-stringed many and many pigeons... Here there are many pigeons missing toes, foot (even both of them...) or leg... It's really sad, here strings are a serious problem for birds... 
You could give a look at this link, you could find helpful information: 


http://nycprc.org/StringRemoval.html


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## Hekie (Apr 2, 2018)

Colombina, you are completely right about why Sabrina has lost her feathers! They are indeed broken, and the wasn't until your comment that I realised what is causing it. She is always more stressed than any other bird I have when I pick her up to change the paper in her cage. It is very likely that she has broken them that way (yes, all my pigeons are in cages - they are out when we go for a "walk" sometimes and very rarely in the house).

Damn, this is really difficult then, because it will take her a while to re-grow them. When I saw your message I contacted the only person I know here who takes pigeons to ask if she would consider having Sabrina. I haven't heard back from her. Her pigeons are loose. I will see if I can find someone else. What a shame, because if I had realised this earlier I could have done something and now her leg is perfect but her tail is terrible 😞

I've seen the de-stringing site before. I'm very glad you've done it a lot as well! Thanks for the vitamin information.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Don't blame yourself...you are doing an excellent job with your birds and cats! Each of us always has something to learn. 

I hope you can find soon someone who will take Sabrina.

If you have any other questions or need an advice, feel free to ask 😊!


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## Hekie (Apr 2, 2018)

Thanks Colombina. I have not had any luck, unfortunately. I have spoken with one of my pigeon vets and he recommends sedating her and removing the damaged feathers. I am going to see if I can get an opinion from the other vet as well. If I do it, I will try and do it asap. However, I am still going to have a problem with how to avoid stressing out Sabrina and damaging the new feathers. What a situation.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

I remember that even my vet told me about that option. My broken wing pigeon Apple needed surgery and then a bandage so the vet cut her wing feathers. In my case, as I was going to adopt her, I waited for them to fall down and grow back.
If you will opt for it remember to give her vitamins. 

Unfortunately some birds really hate staying in a cage and get really nervous and stressed inside it..

You could maybe try to replace the paper in her cage in the dim light (close the blinds, curtains etc)...
Keeping the cage next to a window could make her more nervous. 

What is the size of the cage? Maybe you could get a bigger one: even a rodents cage works well, it also has a place (I call it the "cellar" lol, I mean the place under the shelf) where she could hide when you are replacing the paper. You don't need a giant cage, something similar to this size:

Length 1,00 m
Height 0,50 m
Width 0,60 m 

would be good.

https://www.zooplus.be/shop/rongeurs/cage_rongeurs/cage_lapin_rongeurs/cage_petite_lapin/149575


Another idea: could you keep her free in a room? You could buy a storage shelf (a cheap one - about €10/15 - is ok, you can find it in any do-it-yourself store) and put on it a box (like a plastic fruit crate) and her bowls. Just collect free paper around the city and cover what needed with it and a painting plastic sheets. 

These are just a few ideas... 

Keep me updated.


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## Hekie (Apr 2, 2018)

Thanks Colombina. She lost another feather overnight.

I can't keep her in a bedroom because I'm using the spare one for wild cats. Bad combination! Plus I have a friend visiting this week.

I'm going to look for cages where I can change the paper without picking her up. But she also needs to be sprayed with water a couple of times a day to encourage the growth of the feathers. I'll try and figure something out. The cage is big enough and I do have one bigger one, but I'll see if I can find a different style before moving her to the bigger one. I was trying to avoid buying another cage -I have so many now and storing them is becoming a real issue. Oh well!


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Hope you will find a good solution soon! Keep me updated!

I have a news, Hekie! It wasn't planned but a few days ago...my pigeons Caterina and Ben have become parents! The baby is absolutely lovely!


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## bootface (Jun 29, 2017)

I have something like this: https://www.sierra.com/green-pooch-...eH9vzYFZOnMaAhiyEALw_wcB&codes-processed=true

It will damage their feathers less, plus it’s cheap and easy to store.


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## Hekie (Apr 2, 2018)

Oh that's a great idea, bootface! Thank you. That could work for kitten containment at some point, too. I nearly bought a collapsible cage yesterday but for now I've moved Sabrina to the bigger cage I have to see if it makes any difference. If she loses another feather, I will get one of these type of cages ready to order. 

Aw, Colombina. What a surprise! A friend of mine recently had the same thing happen. I bet they're so cute <3


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

So I'm not the only one who had a big surprise 😅..

Yes they are so lovely, I'm attaching a photo, I took it this morning 😊.


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## Hekie (Apr 2, 2018)

Awwww! I just saw the photo. I bet she's much bigger now but what a cutie. So blonde <3


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Thanks so much, Hekie 😃. Yes, the baby is much bigger now, he is doing really well! You can see him (or her...) in the picture.

How is Sabrina doing? Did she lose all her broken feathers?

How are the cats doing?


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## Hekie (Apr 2, 2018)

Colombina said:


> Thanks so much, Hekie 😃. Yes, the baby is much bigger now, he is doing really well! You can see him (or her...) in the picture.
> 
> How is Sabrina doing? Did she lose all her broken feathers?
> 
> How are the cats doing?


Awwwww! What a change. It's like when a child is blond and then their hair turns brown <3 I'm so glad he's doing well.

I released Sabrina the day you posted your comment, actually! July 22. It was a real surprise. Her tail was growing slowly and I really wasn't sure what would happen. Then right before I went away for one week, it looked more promising. I got back, and she had a tail. I took her out for one walk to see how she went, and she was flying well so I released her the next morning. I would have preferred to do a couple more practice walks/flies but the risk she would lose another feather was too high. She was so stressed. I haven't seen her so I hope for the best, and that she has survived. I thought I saw her on Wednesday evening but I think it was her sister who I also recognise. Anyway, in the end she was able to be released.

On July 9 two days before my holiday I trapped the two kittens I knew existed but hadn't seen. They are brothers, and when I found them I trapped them both very quickly; it was great. Unfortunately I couldn't catch their mum. One of them is doing very well, the other one is very slow to socialise. But I still have a couple of weeks before I will send them to new homes, so I hope I can tame him better.

I have a baby dove. I will make another post about her. Her story is very sad.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Lol you are right, he is like a child changing hair color 😅.

I hope too that Sabrina is fine and maybe married with a good guy 😊. Also I hope that the kittens will be happy in the new homes.


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## Hekie (Apr 2, 2018)

Haha, I think that Sabrina is too young for marriage! Thanks Colombina, for the good thoughts.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Hekie said:


> Haha, I think that Sabrina is too young for marriage! Thanks Colombina, for the good thoughts.


Lol sorry but I don't remember how old is she 🤔...

Anyway, I just want to say that I replied to your other post "Blind pigeons or doves", if you have any question feel free to ask.


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## Lucremars (Feb 12, 2021)

You need to create comfort and find nutritious food for your bird, I just like you picked up a bitten dog and treated its wounds in the same way. the most terrible problem was the low weight of the dog, besides it was a German Shepherd and they always need a very good source of energy from food to feel good. My close friend, the owner of a German Shepherd, advised me to visit this site about dog food for German shepherd and said that I can choose anyone. I bought a few to help the dog for sure, The recovery of my dog lasted about 3 months and during this time she managed to gain 15 kg of weight. Now I have a dog and its name is Rachel!


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## Joeyspesh (Sep 16, 2020)

Lucremars said:


> You need to create comfort and find nutritious food for your bird,I just like you picked up a bitten dog and treated its wounds in the same way.


Did you see that you’re responding to a post that’s several years old? X


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## powerency (Jul 20, 2021)

I'm so happy that Gael is feeling well. 
Also, I am glad that you reacted suddenly and gave him the help and attention he deserved. Many people do not know how to react in such cases and let the injured animals die. Even worse is when people take them at home and don't even know how to take care of them, although there are many sites, such as thepetsmaster.com, where hundreds of articles are written on this topic.
Gael is lucky that you didn't pass by and took him to the vet. I hope that I will often read about people who did not remain indifferent.


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