# Lonesome Cock Found Someone



## ClaireinTX (Sep 1, 2009)

Another follow up for our lonesome cock, Rocky.

We now have a new family member. She is, I believe an Indian fantail. Still hoping she is a she. The girl who found her had her living in her bathroom for the last three weeks with no exposure to other birds. I asked a bunch of questions and here is what I found out:

As to gender--there was a huge mirror in there and the bird never did any courting behaviors like I described that Rocky does, no tail-dragging, no flirting, etc. Fingers crossed that it is b/c she is a hen and not b/c she is just too young or has an ailment.

As to age--how does one tell on a fantail? Here cere is light pinkish, but all the photos I've seen of fantails are light and no age is mentioned. I just read there should be more than 28 tail feathers. Not really clear if this is for age or breed distinction. (I'll count in the morning.)

As to health--she seems to be in pretty good shape.
-She seems stocky. Can't feel her keel bone or anything (Rocky's has always been worrisomely prominent, but the vet pronounced him okay). 
-She's interested in her surroundings. The girl said the bird spent a good bit of time perched on the shower curtain bar. It can definitely fly.
-Bird's throat looks pink and healthy. 
-She does seem to have poop caked on the bottom of one foot and there is discoloration of the feathers from poop. The bathroom where she was kept sure didn't look poopy enough to cause that. It makes me wonder if she escaped from a really dirty loft. Or are fantails just prone to that b/c of the feathered feet and the fact that they're white?
-I asked and the girl said she's never seen her shake her head or twist her neck in a strange way. That seems good. 
-She has brown mites/lice. I'm not sure which. They are tiny, brown/black dots that appeared after we sprayed her with miticide spray. We did this before I brought her home. I will locate some 5% sevin dust tomorrow. Any ideas on how to ID these mites w/out a microscope? At least they're not red.
She flapped s much in the large dog crate on the half hour drive home that I thought she might hurt herself. Is that b/c the mites are hurting her? She hasn't flapped as much since getting settled here, but still does it every once in a while. Should I also dip her in borax solution tomorrow? Should I take apart the new dog crate and spray it to kill any renegade mites?
- I am hoping to get Ivermectin and Spartix from my vet tomorrow. Should I be treating for anything else?
-Am I missing something? Is there some standard, every-bird-off-the-street-should-get-it treatment for foundlings?

-Quarantine protocol--do we need to change clothes after handling her? If my son handles her, then comes inside and sits on the couch and later we let Rocky in the living room, would we be spreading mites? How long can they live off the host? If our dogs walk by the new bird's cage on the way out to the back yard, then later walk into Rocky's room, could they be vectors? Ack.

-I'm thinking it may be time to give Rocky some of these treatments, too--esp. the worming. I used Ivermectin on him a couple of years ago. He always has lots of energy and seems fine, but his poops are always watery and I wonder if he's been contaminated by tweet birds getting in there when we weren't looking. (Vet said damaged kidneys, but sometimes poops look okay.)vHe's never been treated for canker, either, and Charis and Libis both mentioned it as a standard treatment. Thoughts?

Thanks again!
Claire


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Congratulations!

If you've sprayed her, no need to overdue it with dusting.
Probably she would appreciate having access to a bath.
I don't think it necessary to change clothes after handling her. 
As she has been isolated for 3 weeks already, I don't think you need to quarantine her for another 4 weeks.
I would have the vet do a fecal on her and maybe a throat swab.
I do think it's time to treat Rocky for canker. Could be that's what going on with him. Have you ever treated him for coccidia?

Do you know how to introduce the two of them?


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## ClaireinTX (Sep 1, 2009)

I am worried that we didn't get the mite spray in enough places--we tried. I held the bird and covered her head while the girl sprayed her all over, but we didn't really saturate b/c I was worried about overdoing it. Even several hours later, more black dots are still showing up. I'll try to get the bird to do a borax bath tomorrow.

I think I might never have seen the mites if they hadn't run out of hiding due to the spray. How long do I wait before we consider the mites conquered? 

Also, should I spray her crate while she's out of it? 

Coccidia? Oh man, I need to find an avian vet here in Austin. My vet is great, but not too knowledgeable about pigeons. Shoot. Guess I'll take them each in one at a time and and get those cultures done. And I'll start them both right away on flagyl or spartix or whatever I can get out of the vet for canker. Do I do the Ivermectin at the same time as Spartex or is that too hard on them? Looks like they'll both get the same treatment, whatever it is.

I'll also spray the outdoor flight pen (it's pvc and plastic mesh and wire mesh with a flagstone and grass floor). And I'll make it more tweet bird-proof.

My son is now calling the new bird Adrian.
I had been thinking that, when the time comes, we'll start by letting Rocky in the living room so he can look through the back window into the laundry room where Adrian is currently housed. Maybe have one of us in there to hold her up to the window and the other w/ Rocky to do the same. Next stage, put Adrian's crate in a room near Rocky's for a day so they can hear each other, then move her cage into his room so they can see each other. I had originally thought to do the final, real intro in the living room b/c it's a large space. I'm a little worried, though, that Rocky might see that as his territory. Had thought to try putting them both in the new, little outdoor loft we just built for them since it is neutral ground. But it's not very big in case they fight. 

What is the right way to do it? I'm willing to go as slowly as we need to so that they have a good chance of bonding.

Thanks so much.
Claire


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

ClaireinTX said:


> I am worried that we didn't get the mite spray in enough places--we tried. I held the bird and covered her head while the girl sprayed her all over, but we didn't really saturate b/c I was worried about overdoing it. Even several hours later, more black dots are still showing up. I'll try to get the bird to do a borax bath tomorrow.
> 
> *You don't need to saturate to kill all the mites.*
> 
> ...


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## ClaireinTX (Sep 1, 2009)

Charis, you and Libis are a HUGE help. Thank you so much for the advice. 

Wormers: I can't find the Modectin Plus on the Jedd's site. I just read about DE for worms and have some of that. If it's food grade, would that suffice as a wormer? Also, our local feed store carries Quest, which I think is the same ingredient as Modectin (moxidectin?) for worms could we dose it for pigeons w/the weight?

Any suggestions for cleaning her feathered feet other than the obvious picking and pulling. It's on the bottom and I think it makes her uncomfortable. I don't want to stress her by handling her too much.

For that matter: when I pick her up, as soon as she realizes I have a good hold, she quits struggling and just relaxes. Is this b/c she's bred to be handled by a show judge? That was my assumption, but now I'm wondering if it could mean she's not feeling well. Mostly she spends all her time at the door of the cage looking out. 

I put a small box in the cage for her to sleep in, but she spent the whole night perched on the edge of it and has been there all day so far, too. Strange, Rocky would much rather be standing on flat ground.

I've been worried about the arranged marriage we're putting together here. The stakes are pretty high b/c we only have room for the two birds. 

Rocky is pretty much a ****, but I don't know about he new bird. Rocky's so devoted to the soft bell above his nest, but any newcomer will receive lots of attention. Rocky's three favorite objects of "affection" are also our Chihuahua's faves, with the stuffed lion ranking highest. If I walk in wearing a pair of socks he's never seen, watch out. He''l be all, "Hey, Baby, are you new around here? Can I buy you a drink?"

Charis, you've definitely made me feel a bit better about the intro.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

ClaireinTX said:


> Charis, you and Libis are a HUGE help. Thank you so much for the advice.
> 
> Wormers: I can't find the Modectin Plus on the Jedd's site. I just read about DE for worms and have some of that. If it's food grade, would that suffice as a wormer? Also, our local feed store carries Quest, which I think is the same ingredient as Modectin (moxidectin?) for worms could we dose it for pigeons w/the weight?
> 
> ...


I'm glad I have.


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## ClaireinTX (Sep 1, 2009)

Adrian took a seriously long bath this afternoon and then got a blow dry. Within 24 hours of bringing her home, she is eating out of my hand! With all the changes she's had, I can't believe how quickly she's getting comfortable.

I think she must have come from a really dirty breeder, b/c she had feces crusted on her feet and there wasn't nearly enough at the girl's place to do that. It was so bad under there that her feet look a bit swollen and infected. My theory is that's why she prefers to perch instead of sit on a flat surface.

I need to figure out how to post pix so I can show her feet as well as how pretty she looks after her bath.


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## ClaireinTX (Sep 1, 2009)

*Photo of Foot*

Did I just attach it twice? If so, sorry. I'm still learning.


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## ClaireinTX (Sep 1, 2009)

*Doesn't that tail look pretty? Magic powers of the bath.*

She just finished eating out of my hand here.


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## ClaireinTX (Sep 1, 2009)

And here's a pic of Rocky wondering why I won't open the door and let him operate the camera.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

ClaireinTX said:


> She just finished eating out of my hand here.


What a beauty!


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

ClaireinTX said:


> And here's a pic of Rocky wondering why I won't open the door and let him operate the camera.


Poor guy. Wouldn't be a bad idea to remove all objects of his affection.
Can he see the fantail now?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

ClaireinTX said:


> Adrian took a seriously long bath this afternoon and then got a blow dry. Within 24 hours of bringing her home, she is eating out of my hand! With all the changes she's had, I can't believe how quickly she's getting comfortable.
> 
> I think she must have come from a really dirty breeder, b/c she had feces crusted on her feet and there wasn't nearly enough at the girl's place to do that. It was so bad under there that her feet look a bit swollen and infected. My theory is that's why she prefers to perch instead of sit on a flat surface.
> 
> I need to figure out how to post pix so I can show her feet as well as how pretty she looks after her bath.



Would be a good idea to put some nesporin cream on those feet.


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## ClaireinTX (Sep 1, 2009)

Both feet are like that. They each have a swollen place with an open sore right in the middle where the poop was. Is it okay to use tea tree oil until I get Neosporin?

Right now, I have the birds as far apart as possible b/c of the mites, etc. Rocky's in the office and Adrian is in the laundry room (w/ a heater). I had hoped she would be making noises that he can hear, but so far, she just grunts at me when I put my hand in her cage. She finally did chortle a little when she thought I was messing up her nest area, but that's the most noise she's made. 

Rocky has soooo many toys. It might traumatize him to take them all away. =) They're part of his flock. I guess I'll wait until he and Adrian are in the same room so he can focus on her. You're right, that's a really good idea.

How soon after the mite and worm treatment can I put them in the same room (opposite sides)?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Tea tree oil as been known to be toxic to birds and so i wouldn't use it. Do you have any antibiotic cream at all? Maybe you can pick some up tomorrow.
As soon as the mite treatment is over, put their cages side by side. He won't be able to catch worms from her while she is in a separate cage. Isn't worming a precaution for both of them? Remember, she has already been in isolation, at the other home, for three weeks.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Charis said:


> Tea tree oil as been known to be toxic to birds and so i wouldn't use it. Do you have any antibiotic cream at all? Maybe you can pick some up tomorrow.
> As soon as the mite treatment is over, put their cages side by side. He won't be able to catch worms from her while she is in a separate cage. Isn't worming a precaution for both of them? Remember, she has already been in isolation, at the other home, for three weeks.


Yeah, you should be able to find that at any drugstore, or walmart, or target in the first aide section.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

By the way--that little hen is absolutely gorgeous!


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## ClaireinTX (Sep 1, 2009)

Isn't she something? Someone must have made some good breeding choices. I love it that the middle 7 or 8 feathers of her tail are that gray color that's in her wings. And she's so soft! 

Thanks for the tea tree info. What about coconut oil? It has antimicrobial properties. I'll have the Neo or Triple Antibiotic by tomorrow eve, I hope (car issues).

Are we sure there aren't other diseases she could be giving Rocky if she's across the same room? (Man, it would be soooo much more convenient to keep them in the same part of the house!) I've now seen her do this strange thing w/ her neck a few times. She doesn't twist it, but she sort of vibrates it--can you tell I'm a bit paranoid about PMV? I see stuff abt it here all the time.

Hoping that neck vibrating is a thing I read about called "zittering". Here is a video I found and it looks like what she does. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mwn3JuJBQhs

Also read that zittering means she's either an American Fantail, an Indian/American Fantail cross or an Indian/Mookie cross. I know absolutely nothing about difft. breeds and am hoping that I.D.-ing her will help me understand her behaviors more. Already, it is fascinating to be able to hold her with her little legs dangling. Rocky would NEVER put up with that! He'll stand on your hand all day--he really wants to be ON a human-- but let you hold him? No way.

When Adrian was eating seeds out of my hand (maybe the fourth time she's done it now) and we were sitting on the ground, she made a chortling noise and pecked at my hand. Unfortunately, it was a rather similar to the way Rocky does it, but he's much more persistent and assertive. Reeeeeally hoping that wasn't the beginning of driving behavior. Do hens ever do that? I hope? Please?

Rocky kept flying to me in the kitchen while I was doing dishes this eve, so Adrian is now aware of him. He had to fly right by the window to the laundry room to get to me. She was much more flappy in her cage afterward. I think she wanted to try to go see him.

BTW, the mites are still showing up on Adrian. Not sure how to tell if they are mites or lice or if it even matters. Tiny, oblong, brown-ish black. She got sprayed yesterday then put into my clean dog crate to come home. Today she got a thorough bath w/ a TBS of borax to a gallon of water and her crate taken totally apart and sprayed and cleaned thoroughly. Do I spray her (and the crate) again tomorrow or bathe her again or both or just wait a bit?

Thanks, 
Claire


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

ClaireinTX said:


> Isn't she something? Someone must have made some good breeding choices. I love it that the middle 7 or 8 feathers of her tail are that gray color that's in her wings. And she's so soft!
> 
> **
> 
> ...


Do they look like this (a feather louse):


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

ClaireinTX said:


> Isn't she something? Someone must have made some good breeding choices. I love it that the middle 7 or 8 feathers of her tail are that gray color that's in her wings. And she's so soft!
> 
> Thanks for the tea tree info. What about coconut oil? It has antimicrobial properties. I'll have the Neo or Triple Antibiotic by tomorrow eve, I hope (car issues).
> 
> ...


Look forward to an up date.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?search=Phthiraptera


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## ClaireinTX (Sep 1, 2009)

I put a mirror in w/ Adrian this afternoon. She seems to like it, stays near it, but I haven't seen any preening or strutting. It makes sense that her pecks may be preening or play. Whew!

Thanks for the pix. That looks like the same shape as what I saw. I'll work on getting more pix tomorrow. There are also tiny dots, of the same color as the oblong lice. Does that mean she has both lice and mites? Yeesch.

I've seen more of the tiny dots than I have of the oblong lice. I've pulled a couple of oblongs off her and a couple off me after handling her. I've seen the tiny dots on her tail feathers--both back and front of the fan, top of her head, and a few on her breast. Could the dots maybe be the poops from the lice?
The bath seemed to make them appear as she was getting dry. I held her in a towel for a while, then blow dried her a bit on the low setting. After a minute or so, she moved and parked herself about four feet away but still in the breeze of the dryer. I found more dots after that.

Now that I'm really looking for tiny critters, I'm remembering that once or twice in the past three months, I _thought_ I saw something out of the corner of my eye move quickly across one of Rocky's feathers. In reading about mites and lice, I saw a description of a flat fly that moves like a ninja. 
Now I'm looking into this stuff called Ektomed. Have you heard of it? It is put on one spot on the back of the neck (like Advantage for dogs) and it's supposed to be less toxic. 

It looks like Adrian is going to make me aware of stuff Rocky needed all this time. She's a double blessing. (And I feel terrible for not realizing what's going on w/ him.)


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

ClaireinTX said:


> I put a mirror in w/ Adrian this afternoon. She seems to like it, stays near it, but I haven't seen any preening or strutting. It makes sense that her pecks may be preening or play. Whew!
> 
> Thanks for the pix. That looks like the same shape as what I saw. I'll work on getting more pix tomorrow. There are also tiny dots, of the same color as the oblong lice. Does that mean she has both lice and mites? Yeesch.
> 
> ...


Aww, don't feel too bad, you're doing everything you can.


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## ClaireinTX (Sep 1, 2009)

*Dosing Ivermectin*

Four things: 

1.) I _finally_ got the Ivermectin. Now I need help with dosing. I'm pretty sure it is .3%. I was told two drops now and two drops in a week. Does this sound right? My vets are such goobers. They want to be helpful, but they don't know much about pigeons nor do they claim to. I've read the Ivermectin is a serious drug and I don't want to dose her wrong. Any thoughts?

2.) Also, as of last night, I'm not seeing any more lice or mites. Does this mean Adrian is clear? Does she need another treatment in a week?

3.) Can I move them into the same room pretty soon or should I wait until I'm certain all parasites and their eggs are gone from both birds?

4.) I'm not totally sure why it would be, but I thought "bloom" on the bath water was supposed to be a good thing. When Rocky bathes, the water gets a serious layer of white, even if it's only been a day or two since his last bath. When Adrian took her bath, there was no bloom at all in the water. Does this mean something about her health?


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## ClaireinTX (Sep 1, 2009)

Oh, and I got my first wing slap from her last night. She was eating out of my right hand and I put my left hand nearby to push the seeds forward a bit. She let that left hand know in no uncertain terms that it needed to stay away from her seeds. 

I interpret this to mean she's getting more comfortable in her surroundings. 

Rocky actually seems to enjoy a good fight with my hand. (Not when he's in his cage. Those slaps are to protect his nest.) After a nice fly around the living room, he'll have some conjugal time w/ the Chihuahua's stuffed toys, a session doing tricks for hemp seeds, then he'll decide it's time for a little one-on-one. He'll come over and wing slap my hand. Cracks me up. He will usually go back to making amorous advances afterward or trying to feed my index finger. 

Are we going to lose all this crazy fun when Rocky and Adrian finally pair up?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

ClaireinTX said:


> Four things:
> 
> 1.) I _finally_ got the Ivermectin. Now I need help with dosing. I'm pretty sure it is .3%. I was told two drops now and two drops in a week. Does this sound right? My vets are such goobers. They want to be helpful, but they don't know much about pigeons nor do they claim to. I've read the Ivermectin is a serious drug and I don't want to dose her wrong. Any thoughts?
> 
> ...


*The bloom is the dust. Did she have a bath at the other place?

*

Is she eating well?


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## ClaireinTX (Sep 1, 2009)

I just called my vet's office to ask and the assistant asked why I wanted to know the strength and then told me it doesn't matter--to just give each bird the full dose that is in the syringe. They didn't see/weigh the birds, but had told me to just come pick up the med. I have two syringes each filled to the .1ml mark of Ivermectin. I overheard them say .3% while I was there and assumed this is what they were talking about. 

Last time, the other vet in that office had me put it in Rocky's water. But now that I think of it, he never weighed Rocky either.

Very excited to move Adrian into Rocky's room. 

I had told the girl when we first spoke that she should try giving the bird a bath (that was before I knew she didn't want to keep it. The girl later told me she'd put some water in the tub and put the Adrian in it, but she didn't think she'd really bathed. Said she just "kind of floated there for a minute and then got out." I had a really funny pic in my head of this bird floating around a bathtub like a duck. Anyway, maybe Rocky just has really bad dandruff. He usually only bathes once or twice per week. Should we have him do it more often? 

And Adrian is eating great! I've been feeding her two or three times a day and then showing up with hemp seeds in my hand. She seems to be leaving behind the wheat berries (I think that's what they are) just like Rocky does. 

She didn't have access to grit for the three weeks while she was at the girl's home. I gave her a little cup with mixed calcium grit and red grit and she's knocked the stuff all over so I think that means she's using it. 

I did realize yesterday that her keel is more prominent than I had originally thought.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

ClaireinTX said:


> Four things:
> 
> 1.) I _finally_ got the Ivermectin. Now I need help with dosing. I'm pretty sure it is .3%. I was told two drops now and two drops in a week. Does this sound right? My vets are such goobers. They want to be helpful, but they don't know much about pigeons nor do they claim to. I've read the Ivermectin is a serious drug and I don't want to dose her wrong. Any thoughts?
> 
> ...


Sorry Charis--I spent too much of my childhood with parasites on my own head to agree about the week thing. It's really horrible to have things sucking your blood and biting you long term. (this wasn't my parents' fault. the school refused to tell anyone that the building and student body was infested--and kids are required to go to school  ) 

Though--I do agree that we really need to know the strenght of the med and the weight of the bird.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

ClaireinTX said:


> I just called my vet's office to ask and the assistant asked why I wanted to know the strength and then told me it doesn't matter--to just give each bird the full dose that is in the syringe. They didn't see/weigh the birds, but had told me to just come pick up the med. I have two syringes each filled to the .1ml mark of Ivermectin. I overheard them say .3% while I was there and assumed this is what they were talking about.
> 
> *are there any other vets you can go to in the future? My bird vet will NEVER prescribe anything w/out seeing and weighing my birds. (and usually giving them a full inspection*
> 
> ...


Keep on fattening her up


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

ClaireinTX said:


> I just called my vet's office to ask and the assistant asked why I wanted to know the strength and then told me it doesn't matter--to just give each bird the full dose that is in the syringe. They didn't see/weigh the birds, but had told me to just come pick up the med. I have two syringes each filled to the .1ml mark of Ivermectin. I overheard them say .3% while I was there and assumed this is what they were talking about.
> *You have a right to know the strength of the ivermectin. I would suggest you call them back. Do you have a way to weight the birds?
> *
> Last time, the other vet in that office had me put it in Rocky's water. But now that I think of it, he never weighed Rocky either.
> ...


*I would make the food always available rather than feeding 3 times a day. Can you imagine if you were delayed getting home or were in an accident and the birds didn't get food?!

*


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Libis said:


> Sorry Charis--I spent too much of my childhood with parasites on my own head to agree about the week thing. It's really horrible to have things sucking your blood and biting you long term. (this wasn't my parents' fault. the school refused to tell anyone that the building and student body was infested--and kids are required to go to school  )
> 
> Though--I do agree that we really need to know the strenght of the med and the weight of the bird.


I know what you mean. I had a mite infestation here 3 years ago. It was horrible.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Charis said:


> I know what you mean. I had a mite infestation here 3 years ago. It was horrible.


We had human fleas. Normally you only see those on pigs and in third world countries now. In the US you only see them if poverty-stricken countries. 

I've also managed to get completely covered in ticks before *shudders*


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Here's link on foul mites. The entire cycle is short, 5-7 days.

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ig141


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Here's another link on external parasites.

http://ohioline.osu.edu/vme-fact/0018.html


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