# URGENT QUESTION - General anaesthetic



## solly (Jul 18, 2005)

Please if any of you have had pigeons who have had a general anaesthetic let me know what their breathing was like after.My feral has had his crop flushed but is now breathing with his mouth open and it is really spluttery breathing.Wondering if a lot of liquid got into his lungs.Please let me know if this is normal after a GA.


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I haven't seen that, but the vet would usually hold on to the pigeon until he was fully recovered.

Did your vet give it to you to bring home? If so, telephone and ask whether it should be on oxygen.

Cynthia


----------



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

None of my birds had any adverse reaction to general anesthesia. Hope he didn't aspirate. My vet never used general anesthesia for crop flushes.
Did he take an xray? 

Reti


----------



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Sounds like he did aspirate (just read your other post).
I guess she meant he didn't aspirate too much to drown instantly? I am so sorry this didn't go well. Even if he aspirated a little the junk from the crop is bad for his lungs. He will develop chemical pneumonia and probably bacterial too. Give him the Baytril, keep him warm and comfy. He would benefit from some oxygen too, but I don't know where you could get that from. The vet should have incubators and oxygen.

Reti


----------



## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

It does sound like he aspirated some of the fluids, either those they used to flush the crop or the crop contents. I don't like to have a bird's crop flushed simply because there is so much danger of aspirating. Our vet has done maybe 2-3 as a last resort but always warns us of the dangers. I know we have had at least one die from this procedure.

I would follow Reti's good advice and we'll say some prayers for this precious little one.


----------



## solly (Jul 18, 2005)

yes she gave him to me to bring home.She said the blockage must be down further than the crop because the fluid he was bringing up when he came around was really acidy.This morning when she took him in she put a cottonbud down his throat and it was smelling.Although his breathing is bad he is quite perky and has done a couple of poops with some green in so something must be digesting.I asked if she could do it without anaesthetic but she said she wanted to turn him upside down and straighten him right out so that if something could be seen down his throat they might be able to remove it with forceps.He still wants to be sick and is moving his crop about,i've got to give him this injection now which is to stop him being sick she said these injections could make him worse because it would make his stomach work and push things down.However this morning was when he started to bring stuff up and was when the plastic appeared -isn't this a good thing?Just dont know what to do.


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, if he did aspirate a little then it would be best to be proactive and start him on a nebulized Gentamycin and saline treatments. That means that they put some medicine in a fogger and the bird breathes that fog in.

Pidgey


----------



## solly (Jul 18, 2005)

Well pidge came through the night well.I kept his hot water bottle topped up and although i could hear his raspy breathing all night this morning its stopped.His breaths are down to 32 a minute at rest and this afternoon hes walking around his cage pecking and drinking without being offered which he hasn't done since last monday when i found him.The test will be whether his system blocks up again now that hes eating.I spoke to an avian vet on the phone last night and he said give liquid paraffin twice daily-couldn't remember if it was 0.2ml or 2ml so he had 0.6ml last night and 1ml this morning he also said starchy food like pasta potato and rice so hes got potato for tea.It looked like a few bits of plastic did come out in his poop so fingers crossed its getting ground down in there somewhere.Fingers crossed everyone!!!


----------



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Oh, so wonderful to hear he is doing better. Hopefully the plastic is on it's way out.
You are doing a wonderful job with this little guy.

Reti


----------



## solly (Jul 18, 2005)

Think pidge might be blocking up again.He stopped the anti sickness medicine AND tonight i gave him some egg food and tried to give him some pasta but he was sick a bit.Think it was he didn't like the pasta-he didn't bring much up but the few bits that came up were very smelly and it hadn't been down long so i'm wondering if acid is going upwards into his crop.Yesterday he did a few wonderful poops but today they have gone tiny again.He spends most of the day sat on his hot water bottle really hunched up with his tail pointing downwards and his head pulled right in.If i smooth him he walks around and looks "normal" pecknig at seeds although he doesn't eat many.Hes still on baytril injections.I'm going to stick with it but i don't want to be cruel.Hes having his liquid paraffin.I really want him xrayed but the vet said that plastic wouln't show up-i thought it would.His eyes are bright and his breathing has really improved.ANY IDEAS??????


----------



## solly (Jul 18, 2005)

Tell you what if i have anything to do with it this pigeon is going to live and be called dustbin.I just went up to go to bed and he had been really sick.Probably brought up everything he had eaten since the crop wash!I was gutted but then painstakingly went through every bit.! 1 piece of sharp clear plastic to go with the others,2 pieces of coloured glass-quite smooth,1 piece of silver paper and the best bit!!the biggest bit of all a piece of very hard purple curved plastic measuring over a centimetre by 8 tenths of a centimetre and thats its curved size.i'm praying this was the bit that was lodged and stopping things going down, its the perfect shape.hes up there pecking a little bit now.I really don't believe this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!off to bed again now !!


----------



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I hope all or at least almost all of the junk he ate is out now. Glad his breathing is good. 

Reti


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Amazing stuff this bird had in him/her! I hope all the bad stuff is out now and that everything will be better from here on out.

Terry


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I can't believe how much is coming out of him! Did they tell you why they wanted to prevent vomiting? It sounds as if the build up is/was in the proventriculus (stomach) and was too big to pass into the gizzard. Vomiting may be the only way he can get it out.

He must have been completely starving to swallow so much rubbish, poor baby.

Cynthia


----------



## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

Now you need to ask yourself why is he eating this stuff? I would make sure he can only get to his pigeon food and that is all. Even if you have to put him in a cat carrier for a while. I am glad everything has worked out for the best but I think this is going to happen again because he can find it and get into it. Good Luck. ''


Cindy


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> Now you need to ask yourself why is he eating this stuff?


I was just browsing and found a site on keeping free range geese, it mentioned the importance of providing them with grit because otherwise they
will pick up bits of wire and nails.

Cynthia


----------



## solly (Jul 18, 2005)

Before i gave him the injection to stop him vomiting on saturday night i phoned an avian vet i found on the internet in Kent to make sure this was the right thing to do as my vet said it could make him worse but she wanted to see if keeping the food down would cause the blockage to shift downwards.He totally agreed but also mentioned the liquid paraffin and starchy food.I suppose when these ferals are out and about they pick up anything to use as "grit"and usually it probably just stays in the gizzard,reduces and eventually passes out.I can imagine that this curved bit just sat in a "tube"and with the weight of the food acted as the perfect plug cos on saturday his crop was full of fluid cos nothing was going down.I might be "counting my chickens before they've hatched"but he definately has improved and pooped a helluva lot today compared to what hes done before.My mum says "oh you'll be letting him go again then"----What do you think????To think last night i was actually thinking of having him put to sleep_whoops!


----------



## solly (Jul 18, 2005)

naturegirl said:


> Now you need to ask yourself why is he eating this stuff? I would make sure he can only get to his pigeon food and that is all. Even if you have to put him in a cat carrier for a while. I am glad everything has worked out for the best but I think this is going to happen again because he can find it and get into it. Good Luck. ''
> 
> 
> Cindy


sorry this was under a new thread about sick feral but i started a new thread about the general anaesthetic but this was originally about a feral i picked up 9 days ago not one of my pigeons and i suppose he ate it cos he was hungry


----------



## solly (Jul 18, 2005)

Really fed up.one minute i'm on a high because the purple plastic came out and now the poops have all but stopped again.He was a little sick last night but i did sort of turn him upside down because i thought he was choking.This morning he ate a little bit of boiled rice and egg food but then made this raspy sound again - i'm sure it was his throat not his breathing.He was shaking his head with his mouth wide open as if something was stuck.His crop feels as if its getting fullish again but the poop he just did was basically just clear liquid with a tiny thickish beige centre-and i mean tiny.Theres really got to be more junk in there.He's still got bright eyes but i do think its just the polyaid thats keeping him going.


----------



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Oh no, I am so sorry to hear that. I was hoping it was all out. 

Reti


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Are you still giving him liquid paraffin? Maybe he needs to be allowed to vomit again.

Cynthia


----------



## solly (Jul 18, 2005)

i'm still giving the liquid paraffin.Hes not on the anti-vomit drugs anymore-not since Monday morning.I do think the only way its going to come out is upwards but as he had the crop wash and nothing came out she said but maybe one tiny piece of plastic-so it must be further in.I don't really know about the digestive system that well but the vet said basically if the blockage is further than the crop then forget it.Its just funny that once hes been sick then poops come out so things must be shifting somehow.Anyway if nothing happens tonight then hes going to have to go vets in the morning.If they aren't very positive then i'll ask to be referred to an avian vet-i'll just tell them to imagine hes a £2000 parrot-then they'll know of someone i'm sure!!


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> the vet said basically if the blockage is further than the crop then forget it


The food passes from the crop into the proventriculus, which is the glandular stomach. When pigeons throw up from the crop is it regurgitation, when they throw up from the proventriculus it is true vomiting. From the proventriculus it goes into the gizzard.

Sometimes pigeons get hard things (nails, wire etc) stuck in the gizzard and need surgery. If it comes to that you would need an experienced avian vet.

He is a brave bird, whatever is causing his problems now has to be less than was causing his problems earlier, as so much has come out. He deserves to recover...you both deserve to win this one.

Cynthia


----------



## solly (Jul 18, 2005)

Thanks for explaining Cynthia -I'm going to keep trying cos he really deserves to get through this and if he does need to see an avian vet then he will.I'll keep you updated.


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Solly,

I have been corrected by PM for refering to the proventriculus as the muscular stomach when it is, in fact, the glandular stomach. The gizzard is the muscular stomach which grinds the food.

This doesn't alter the fact that inflammation of the proventriculus causes vomiting (projectile vomiting) at that the gizzard is where obstructions often form.

According to Levi digested food can bi-pass the gizzard and go straight into the duodenum. If so, then food like Poly Aid has a shorter journey and probably fewer obstacles in this case.

I will correct my original post.

I hope your patient is OK today. MY Delightful and Glorious Delorious is ill and I am running low on food, I have to go to the vet and the corn merchants so I won't be on line much . Call me if you need me.

Cynthia


----------

