# Yet another pellet question(s)



## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

I've read through the sticky on racing graines/fuels and still have some questions.

For those who have fed specifically Purina Green/Gold pellets through some racing seasons, I'd like to know:

What was your overall experience? Positive/negative and why?

Would you do it again? Did you find that supplementing with grain was necessary and if so, by how much and when? 

Did you alter the recipe on the bags any and if so, how and when?

I've read one criticism of the pellets that they are digested much more quickly than grain and leave the pigeons hungry much sooner. Has anyone noticed this and was it a detriment to racing?

Thanks,

David


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## Feathered Dragons (Oct 15, 2010)

I got this from Warren at Smith Family Lofts

Check out these links if you want to see the Purina Nutri-blend

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvIe3LUwiiI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bC4Ee0PQ9rw

Hope this helps


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## Rabbit (Aug 17, 2008)

I've been feeding the Nutreblend pellets both Green & the Gold since last spring and the birds seem to be doing really well on them. I feed twice a day at 6am & 6pm and pull the feed trays as soon as the birds finish eating both morning and nite. 
I dont have all that many birds so I generally buy a bag of each and mix together for the 50/50 blend. One thing I do like is the fact that I dont have any scattered seed laying around for the mice or sparrows to focus on. It tells you on the bag not to give any minerals so I dont and I donot add anything else to the feed. Occasionally I'll scatter a little safflower when the birds come in just as a treat. My overall experience has been good especially since the birds tend to eat both color pellets and they dont have a choice of seed or grains to pick through and choose from. The birds came through the molt looking really nice.


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## Feathered Dragons (Oct 15, 2010)

Rabbit said:


> I've been feeding the Nutreblend pellets both Green & the Gold since last spring and the birds seem to be doing really well on them. I feed twice a day at 6am & 6pm and pull the feed trays as soon as the birds finish eating both morning and nite.
> I dont have all that many birds so I generally buy a bag of each and mix together for the 50/50 blend. One thing I do like is the fact that I dont have any scattered seed laying around for the mice or sparrows to focus on. It tells you on the bag not to give any minerals so I dont and I donot add anything else to the feed. Occasionally I'll scatter a little safflower when the birds come in just as a treat. My overall experience has been good especially since the birds tend to eat both color pellets and they dont have a choice of seed or grains to pick through and choose from. The birds came through the molt looking really nice.


Do you stick with the 50/50 mix year round?


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## West (Mar 29, 2009)

Rabbit do you race on this mix?


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

dstephenson said:


> I've read through the sticky on racing graines/fuels and still have some questions.
> 
> For those who have fed specifically Purina Green/Gold pellets through some racing seasons, I'd like to know:
> 
> ...


1. Overall experience is positive. I ended up with healthy birds which is Job #1, but it also was less expensive because all those various add ons are unnecessary. 

2. Yes

3. No supplementation is necessary. 

4. No

5. I don't know that they digest it "faster", I suspect it might be more efficient, but the fact that they have a good appetite, I don't see as a negative. 

In conclusion, all kinds of money and research went into developing these pellets. It is a very cost effective system. It works. The BIGGEST problem or should I say challenge, is that we as fanciers are always trying to fiddle with something, even when it works. We always feel the need to add something, in order to "make things better". The scientists at the Purina Research Center have already done this. Now quit playing with their food, quit giving them all kinds of extra junk. Just provide fresh clean water and/or a little ACV in the water if you like, and then fiddle with something else. Adding extra vitamins, extra minerals, extra anything at this point can be counter productive. 

So the BIGGEST challenge, is to just accept this program. Many fanciers can't as they want to add 27 different things. It's too simple and too easy for them.  

Me, I like simple, I like saving a few hundred a year, and now after using for a year, I have learned to just accept that plain pellets and clean water is better then all those "extras" all those "magic formulas" just don't do the job as these pellets...plain and simple.


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## Feathered Dragons (Oct 15, 2010)

I'll be doing what the bag says but I can't see not putting grit out for them.


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

Thanks Warren and Rabbit  hehe 

I may give them a try if I can get them around here. 

So I assume that you raced while feeding pellets (and found no objections, it seems?)

Is the 1oz per bird per day still a good starting point for rations? I tend to feed once a day in the winter because I can't get home from work before dark. You see any issues with that? Thats why I was a bit concerned about the fast digestion.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

1 oz per bird is not good enough for them unless you are training them to trap real quick.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

mcox0112 said:


> I'll be doing what the bag says but I can't see not putting grit out for them.


What you might have to look out for, is too many of the minerals and vitamins. You will note that many grit mixes have all kinds of stuff added to them. It might be possible to give them too much of a good thing in this regard. I don't always practice what I preach....as I also feel compelled to want to provide grit as well. If it does no harm, then it should be OK. But, I would watch them closely for signs of overdose.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

dstephenson said:


> Thanks Warren and Rabbit  hehe
> 
> I may give them a try if I can get them around here.
> 
> ...


The amount of feed is always relative to the amount of work being done. No different then you and me. We could both eat say 2000 calories of food a day, and it is possible one of us would lose weight, and one of us would gain weight. 

Feeding pigeons is an art form, only a very small amount makes the difference between underfed and overfed. No way any of us could tell you on any particular day exactly how much food your pigeons should be fed. On any given day, a single ounce might be too much or too little. There are many variables that must be considered, and as you might expect, it's not only what you feed, but how you feed, and the amounts, etc. 

The perfect feed, and the perfect feeding system, has not yet been invented or discovered yet. Ask 100 different fanciers, and you might get many different answers. I will say this, generally speaking, the average typical pigeon fancier tends to over feed. This should not be surprising when you consider the typical American is overweight, and so generally will also overfeed their cats and dogs. So, it should be no surprise that they will indulge their pigeons the same way. Overfeeding / Underfeeding either one, will affect the health of your pigeons.

And yes, I have now completed a complete cycle of feeding these Purina Pellets to my pigeons. From months before the breeding season, through various stages of rearing young, through the end of the YB racing season. I like them, and I will continue on the program.


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## Rabbit (Aug 17, 2008)

Warren, Your comments on the pellets ring very true. There are several of us in South West Missouri that feed pellets and I drive about 30 miles one way to get them. I tried to research Nutrablend a little more than just whats on the bag and about all I can find out is our feed store orders them out of Wisconsin I believe. I share your exact thoughts about Purina's research on feed formulations and nutrition. 
Last breeding season I fed Purina's cheaper version The Pigeon Checkers and I still ended up with fat healthy babies then I switched to Green & Gold at the suggestion of my wife ( I need to listen to her more, she's usually right ) . This spring we plan on visiting Purina Farms at St Louis and I'm hoping to come up with a little more knowledge about the pellets. I set the feed trays down for the birds twice a day and let them eat for about 4 or 5 minutes then pick them up and dump the remainder back in the bucket so virtually no waste. While breeding I'll leave feed in front of them all the time!


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## Caden's Aviary (Jul 14, 2010)

I've been using the pellets for a few months now and my birds seem to be doing great. It almost seems too easy/good to be true to just follow the guidelines on the bag, but everything I've read said they put a lot of work into developing this food so I just go with it. As far as how much to feed, unless trap training them I just give them as much as they will eat. After a few birds go to the water I pull the feed. I don't know much about it but they tear them up every meal and my high dollar birds look as good as other people's and my so, so bred birds look better than they did on seed and grit a few months ago.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

I am not familiar with pigeon pellet research, but there seems to be a lot of chicken pellet research. My guess is that hopefully they put the same effort for pigeon pellets.


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

Well I've bought a couple of bags (one green and one gold) and started my breeders on 100% Green pellets. They took to them very quickly. I'm second guessing myself on how much to feed them because they are eating twice as much (volume) as they were grain. They act like they can't get enough of it - so I just keep giving them more and more and they just eat till they are stuffed!

So naturally I'm worried. Maybe they just need an adjustment period. Maybe I'm the one who needs an adjustment period. 

I weighed a cup of grain and a cup of the pellets and the pellets weighed almost HALF of what the grain weighs. So I guess if they want twice as much in pellets I shouldn't be so concerned??

Also, for those using this system: The bag recommends 100% Gold for winter maintenance, yet 100% Green for breeders. What do you give them if it's winter and breeding time? Is the lower carbs in the Green enough for the cold temps? I'm just pairing mine up now/January planning for Feb. hatches. 

Thanks for the help - I'm just trying to figure this "simple" system out


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

dstephenson said:


> Well I've bought a couple of bags (one green and one gold) and started my breeders on 100% Green pellets. They took to them very quickly. I'm second guessing myself on how much to feed them because they are eating twice as much (volume) as they were grain. They act like they can't get enough of it - so I just keep giving them more and more and they just eat till they are stuffed!
> 
> So naturally I'm worried. Maybe they just need an adjustment period. Maybe I'm the one who needs an adjustment period.
> 
> ...


Well, have you paired your breeders and are they breeding, on eggs, etc ? If yes, then feed them all the Green they want. If no, then they are on maintance, and they are not breeding. You may be one of those folks that over thinks to much...and worries too much.


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## swaze (Mar 3, 2010)

ProPigeon Loft said:


> Warren, just curious as to how your birds flew in the one loft races this year and at the club level on the 100% green pellets and water only breeding diet?


well I don't see how it would effect the youngsters he sends out to one loft races.... as long as they are strong, healthy, and well structured it would have no effect on their eventual performance since they are sent out at 28 to 30 days old.

however feeding pellets in club or combine racing is another story and i highly doubt anybody could dominate feeding 100% pellets to their racers. you need a little bit more of a feeding strategy than that and they don't exactly use the highest quality grain in pellets. Purina is the best quality of the bunch, but no way are the grains in pellets as fresh or as good of quality as a a high quality fresh grain. when you also consider that racing pigeons are essentially athletes i also have a hard time believing that you could feed them a generic pellet that is not super high in carbs or fat (which is what the birds race off) and get outstanding results.

sure you may win a race here and there but only winning a race here and there is hardly the best result for a "system" that is supposed to replace grain and supplements.


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## windyflat (Jul 19, 2007)

Propigeon loft... Listen to Steve Troyers pigeon radio interview. He feeds nothing purina pellets to his flyers and breeders. Steve works for purina and has alot of faith in this product and he's had some pretty decent results. I would'nt say he dominates but in looking at his results he was second OB average speed last year. I guess I just like the idea that every birds get 100% nutrition instead of picking thru and eating what they want. Now If i had the time to hand feed each grain seperately I guess I could tame that beast but I don't... A full time job and three wonderful kids keep me on the run so the pellets are a good affordable option for me at this time
I'm gonna give it a try this year with 100% green for the breeders and 100% gold for the flyers. Some of us just cannot get top quality grains at a realistic price. We have to drive 1hr into Canada to get really good grain at a fair price.
Tom


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

ProPigeon Loft said:


> Warren, just curious as to how your birds flew in the one loft races this year and at the club level on the 100% green pellets and water only breeding diet?



For 2010, I won *Champion Loft* in the York Racing Pigeon Club, which was the 1st time I won that award. In the One Loft events, *I got into the money at the Winners Cup*....the birds were much more impressive during the training phase. During two back to back training tosses, my two birds were 1st and 2nd, two tosses in a row ! That got me all revved up, but they did not continue that kind of preformance. 

If I did not have good results, I would not be going on here and suggesting that people use the product. I do not own stock outside of a mutual fund, in Purina Mills, I am not a paid spokesmen. I simply like their product.

If someone knows the perfect feed system, other then pellets, and has a ready source of good grains availalble, then by all means follow some other system. Pigeons are just a hobby to me, I have other interests in life. Purina has some very good products, but not everyone will be in a location where you can get your hands on them. Plus to be honest, I want more things in my life to be simple. There must be a 100 different sucessful ways to feed pigeons and win races. The perfect feed, the perfect mixture, has not been invented or discovered yet, but I suspect that Purina has come darn close. And near perfect, is good enough for me.


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## Rabbit (Aug 17, 2008)

There are several in my area of southern Missouri who feed the pellets and the general concensus I'm getting is that most of the guys mix 50/50 year round and some race with that mix. I feel Purina probably has done their homework pretty well so their directions on the bag are probably correct if you want to achieve the best results. It's been cold here and I feed twice a day at 6am & 6pm and in this colder weather the birds are always more anxious to eat however they are not losing any weight and seem very healthy. Last breeding season I actually fed Purina's Pigeon Checkers for a round and its only about 12% protein and I had nice fat squabs on it so I think I'll stick with the 50/50 mix of the Nutrablend this season. The nice thing about Nutrablend is when you go to the feed store that is all you have to buy. No grit is needed , no storing a bunch of different sacks and mixing feed and if you feed like I do then you dont have a sparrow or mouse problem because you dont have seeds getting scattered.


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## DEEJAY7950 (Dec 13, 2006)

Because of the cold weather I've added corn on top of the green pellets, the corn is a lite feed and helps give the birds some needed heat during the cold weather and the nice thing is CORN is cheap!


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Well, have you paired your breeders and are they breeding, on eggs, etc ? If yes, then feed them all the Green they want. If no, then they are on maintance, and they are not breeding. You may be one of those folks that over thinks to much...and worries too much.


Yes I suppose I do tend to over-think. But I'd rather over-think than NOT think. I've made many rookie mistakes at the expense of my birds and would prefer to give things like food reasonable investigation 

My birds rely on me to provide for them adequate quality and appropriate volume - so I'm the one who has to figure it out without harming them. Fortunately these pigeons are a hardy bunch and seem to thrive despite me 

Thanks for your all your input, and hopefully this thread will help others who are attempting to make this feed adjustment. I'm glad to know that there are those who are racing successfully on this feed.


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## g-pigeon (Aug 24, 2010)

i use to feed only pellets as well 

unfortunately the shipping was very expensive.
i found some high quality feed out in long island that i purchased but i noticed the birds are always picking what seed they prefer. i believe they are not really getting the balanced diet the feed contains. i will be changing back to pellets
just ordered 2 50lb bags. also i finally found a supplier out in long island new york that carries the pellets. i just have to make sure the bags are not to old. they primarily deal with horse and chicken feed


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

just to let people know these "pellets" are purina nutri-blend green and the other is called gold.. they are a round "pellet" type feed not the purina pigeon checkers pellet that actually is shaped like a pellet.. the round green or gold seems to be preferd as the shape is more pea like.. well here is a link to what it looks like..
http://www.internationaldovesociety.com/DovePics/Containers/NB green pellets.jpg


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

I've read and listened to many fliers talk about how their birds will first eat the grains they prefer (like a child eating desert first). At the same time, I've read and listened to many fliers talk about how the birds know what they NEED and will eat that first (like corn in the cold weather).

What I'd like to know is how those thoughts may apply to these NutriBlend pellets. I've been feeding according to the bag instructions. Right now they are feeding squabs and I'm mixing 75% green with 25% gold. I've noticed that the birds are picking out the gold first - they definitely are selecting it out.

My question for those of you feeding the green and gold is this: Do you think that the birds LIKE the gold better or do they know that they NEED it more. What I'd like to know is if I should balance the mix differently according to their needs. In other words, are they showing me that they need more carbs and less protein by their preference, or do they just like to eat the "candy" first?

thx.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

when they have feed left for them most of the time. like with breeders. they will eat what they want..whether they need it or not.. that is why it is good to leave it down till it is gone and then refill so they eat all that is given... if you put safflower(a known fav) down with it.. guess what they will eat first...anytime of the year....I do think they have insticts on what they need and or crave.. but we are not mind readers..if you feed by what your birds are doing, I think it would get too complicated and a bit overboard.... just think of wild birds.. they eat what is there at the time..they do not get to pick and choose. how much protein they need to raise squabs Im sure is up for debate.. I have met a show judge that goes pfffft!.. to the protein and only feeds 12% all year long..and then I read some take it as high as 20% with the fish pellets.. so really Im not sure how much research has been done on protein % and squab raising.. it makes sense that it should be higher.. but higher than what..?...lol..


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

dstephenson said:


> I've read and listened to many fliers talk about how their birds will first eat the grains they prefer (like a child eating desert first). At the same time, I've read and listened to many fliers talk about how the birds know what they NEED and will eat that first (like corn in the cold weather).
> 
> *What I'd like to know is how those thoughts may apply to these NutriBlend pellets. I've been feeding according to the bag instructions. Right now they are feeding squabs and I'm mixing 75% green with 25% gold. I've noticed that the birds are picking out the gold first - they definitely are selecting it out.*
> 
> ...


One can feed the green first, and then when that is finished, you can then feed the gold. So if you are feeding let's just say 75% Green with 25% gold, feed the first three parts green and then the one part gold, and then everyone is all on the same page. 

As you may have guessed, I am *not* one of those who thinks that the pigeon knows what his ideal diet should be, and will eat only what he needs. If that were true, it would make things a lot more easy, cause then the pigeon would only eat the exact ideal amount as well. All one would then have to do is place a whole bunch of containers in the loft with every possible seed available and just keep em filled up. The birds would then know exactly how much and what kind of seeds to consume on any given day. Got a big long distance race coming up this weekend, no problem, the pigeon would start loading up on the carbs. There would be no such thing as an overweight pigeon, as they would only eat the seeds and amounts to keep an ideal weight. There really would be no need to have different commerical blends, as the various pigeons would custom select their own diets. 

Feeding is an art form, I don't think it can be taught from a book exactly, or from a forum such as this. Even trying to make life more simple and using pellets, does not remove as in the case of Purnia Nutri-blend the % of green or gold, and/or the amounts. And I suspect that the ideal amounts and %'s could change from day to day based on the amount of work they do and weather conditions and other factors. I myself am feeding 100% green right now, in front of them 24/7 because my breeders are feeding babies in the nest. 

The perfect pigeon diet has not yet been invented. And there may be a hundred different ways of doing things, and still win races and/or breed nice healthy babies.


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

Thanks Warren, that's kinda what I thought. Give 'em what they need, not what they want. 

So when do you stop feeding 100% to the babies?


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Sometime after weaning we move from food in front of them all the time, to twice a day feeding, and then a bit later in the season, I move towards once a day feeding. I move towards the once a day feeding when I need to develope some control over them. It is more difficult to control the YB's with the twice a day feeding in my opinion, and the trap training and coming when called, works better when they are interested in food.


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

That's great info, thanks. I've been doing the same thing now so I'm glad I'm on the right track. 

I mistakenly left an important word out of my question though

I meant to ask when do you move away from 100% GREEN pellets and into another mixture of green/gold.

Thanks.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

dstephenson said:


> That's great info, thanks. I've been doing the same thing now so I'm glad I'm on the right track.
> 
> I mistakenly left an important word out of my question though
> 
> ...


Depends on what birds you are referring to. My breeders will stay on Green the entire breeding season, after they are separated in May they will get something less then 100% Green. My young birds are taken off 100% Green as soon as they begin loft flying to something less then 50% Green.


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## Boroview Farm (Mar 11, 2010)

*Pellet feeder myself...*

Just ran across this thread. I have been raising birds with my son for a year now. Like others here, I have a very busy life and was drawn to the ease of the Purina Green and Gold Products. I consulted with a veterinarian that went to school with my wife (he also raises homers) and he reccommended the pellets for all the reasons mentioned by Warren. This spring will be my first season to race old birds, so I will let you know how our birds fly. I am the ONLY one in the club feeding the pellets; the others are watching my closely All I can say is that training has gone really well and all our birds look really healthy. Feeding the pellets is also very simple which allows my 9-year-old to be in charge of feeding!

Michael Shirley
Middle Tennessee Racing Pigeon Club


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Boroview Farm said:


> Just ran across this thread. I have been raising birds with my son for a year now. Like others here, I have a very busy life and was drawn to the ease of the *Purina Green and Gold Products*. I consulted with a veterinarian that went to school with my wife (he also raises homers) and he reccommended the pellets for all the reasons mentioned by Warren. This spring will be my first season to race old birds, so I will let you know how our birds fly. I am the ONLY one in the club feeding the pellets; the others are watching my closely All I can say is that training has gone really well and all our birds look really healthy. Feeding the pellets is also very simple which allows my 9-year-old to be in charge of feeding!
> 
> Michael Shirley
> Middle Tennessee Racing Pigeon Club





Sorry it took me so long to repond. Yes, many in the medical community agree with my assessment as well. Not saying they moved towards that direction because of me, but just saying there is a medical basis for my reasoning, and one of the reasons I moved in this direction. 

See complete article here:
http://www.auspigeonco.com.au/

THE USE OF PELLETTED RATIONS IN PIGEONS

By Dr Colin Walker BSc, BVSc, MRCVS, MACVSc (Avian health) 

Around the world, knowledge regarding avian nutrition has undergone quantum leaps in the last two decades. We now have a very clear understanding of the optimal nutritional requirements of pigeons.

Taking a quick look at the level of various nutrients in grain and the average level of these grains used in the various feed blends, it doesn’t take very long to realize that no grain blend can provide a complete and balanced diet. This is why over time a whole range of supplements has been developed and used successfully because they do complement the deficiencies of a diet based solely on dry grain. Further complicating the picture is that pigeons preferentially select certain grains within a mix. This means that even if a grain-blend did provide a balanced diet, it is likely that the balanced diet would be distorted by individual birds selecting the grains they liked. It has been shown, contrary to the opinion of many fanciers, that pigeons do not have nutritional wisdom. They do not necessarily know what is best for them but rather they are like children. They just eat the grain that tastes nice, and these for most pigeons are the grains that are higher in fat.

Throughout the avian world, one of the ways of combating these problems is through the provision of pelletted rations. Pelletted rations can be formulated to contain all the nutrients in just the right proportions and every pellet is the same. In this way, pelletted rations combat the two problems associated with a dry-grain diet, namely that grain diets alone intrinsically fail to provide an optimal diet and the preferential selection of certain grains. In a well formulated pelletted ration the nutritional intake and the provision of a complete and balanced diet is guaranteed.

*Despite these advantages the use of pelletted diets has only slowly been embraced by pigeon fanciers.* In all poultry species such as chickens and ducks, and in particular in the last few years in pet and companion birds such as parrots, the use of pelletted rations has steadily increased. Such rations are almost invariably recommended by avian vets around the world. The progressive veterinary-based pigeon companies around the world have in line with advances in knowledge started to manufacture and produce pellets.

I think part of the reason pigeon fanciers have been slow to use pellets is a lack of understanding of the product. Some companies produce several types of pellet, designed to be fed at different stages of the pigeon’s life. This is because the nutritional requirements at different life stages vary. In a recent article, a prominent fancier was quoted as saying that when using pellets in the stock loft the raised youngsters were beautiful but when the same birds were raced on the same pellets they seemed to have no power. This is a totally anticipated outcome. To say that one pellet formulation can supply the requirements of a pigeon throughout its whole life is like saying that the dietary requirements of a pregnant woman, a footballer and a growing child are all the same. In the chicken industry, different pelletted blends are produced for laying hens, young chicks, growing chicks, etc. In pigeons, we don’t need such a variety and the provision of too many different pellet blends would make the use of pellets unnecessarily complex. Most companies produce two blends for pigeons, one designed for the maintenance of adult birds and a second designed to be added as a proportion of the diet to a grain blend for actively racing pigeons.

Maintenance Pellets
To formulate maintenance pellets, it is simply a matter of going to the literature on the nutritional requirements of pigeons, which these days is very comprehensive and accurate. Extensive work over many years has been conducted so that not only is the ideal level in the diet of each vitamin, mineral and amino acid (amino acids combine to make proteins) known but also the ideal levels relative to each other. These nutrients can then be blended together in the form of a pellet to provide a complete and balanced diet. Many fanciers will say, “I have kept pigeons for many years. I have always fed them grain. They seem fine. Why bother?” What I feel is that many such fanciers accept certain problems that have a nutritional base as a normal part of pigeon management. Examples here include:

1. Hens past 7 years of age no longer breeding winners – associated with decreased yolk and albumen quality, resulting in poor embryo development and the chick getting off to a poorer start. 
2. Cocks and hens developing arthritic changes and gout by 8 - 9 years of age – associated with high levels of protein, too low calcium and incorrect levels of vitamin A and D3 in the diet. 
3. Obesity in non-breeding hens – associated with fat contents of over 6% in the diet. 
4. Infertility in middle-aged cocks – associated with an incorrect vitamin A and vitamin E ratio in the diet. These are both fat-soluble vitamins and are absorbed into the body via the same pathways. Vitamin E is needed for normal sperm function (it affects lipid metabolism in the sperm head). Giving too much vitamin A in the diet means there are no pathways available to absorb vitamin E, leading to vitamin E deficiency even if there is plenty in the diet. 
5. Recurrent canker in nestlings, despite medical management – low protein levels in the diet and poor balance of nutrients predisposes to disease generally. 

The list goes on and on. Recently, a fancy-pigeon owner rang me. He kept a breed of fancy pigeon that was notorious for poor fertility. Traditional wisdom was that this breed was of poor fertility and that a likely cause was Salmonella. Each year, for the previous 5 years, the fancier had paired 30 pairs together, producing only 6 – 8 youngsters per round. He was becoming totally exasperated and ended up driving 100 miles to our clinic to investigate the cause. The birds appeared normal in the hand and were fed grain, grit and water. Six birds were anaesthetized and the gonads were examined with an endoscope through a keyhole incision in their left side. There were no visible abnormalities (such as cysts, adhesions, or tumours) in any of the birds’ gonads. Blood was drawn from each bird for a Chlamydia test (Chlamydia is the organism that causes eye-colds in young pigeons and can damage the gonads of older birds leading to irregular laying in hens and premature infertility in cocks). The best way to diagnose Salmonella (the organism that causes the disease Paratyphoid) is to culture the site of an infection. Endoscope-guided swabs were collected for testing, taken directly from the gonads. All test results for disease were negative. The birds were changed to a pelletted ration. The next year the first round from 30 pairs contained 57 youngsters. 

Fanciers asking if the pellets contain medication to control canker is common. On pelletted rations, they found they no longer needed to treat for canker. In Australia, it is illegal to add medication to pellets (except with a prescription). This effect is simply due to the pellets providing a complete diet and the resultant increased ability of the healthier bird to resist disease. 

In another instance, a fancier added turkey grower pellets to his grain blend during breeding. The high level of protein and calcium in this blend resulted in beautiful youngsters being produced. Because of this, he kept feeding the pellets as a proportion of the diet to his stock birds while they were not breeding. Several months later, some of these started to get sick. One was euthanized and autopsied. The persistently high protein, high calcium, high vitamin D3 levels in this diet for non-growing or breeding birds had damaged their kidneys and they were developing kidney failure. Correction of the diet resulted in all remaining birds recovering within 2 weeks. 

Fanciers often add iron to the diet or copper sulphate to the drinker (to combat canker). These are both heavy metals that are quickly absorbed into the system but only slowly excreted. With repeated low doses, these birds look fine but as the minerals accumulate in their bodies they have a variety of effects. The most common of these in the stock loft is reduced fertility. It can be hard for the fancier to relate the dead-in-shell youngsters, clear eggs and non-laying hens experienced during breeding to these treatments, which may have been given months earlier...................See complete article here:
http://www.auspigeonco.com.au/


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## Boroview Farm (Mar 11, 2010)

*the flying vet?*

Have you heard of the "Flying Vet?" Apparently, he reports findings that are unfavorable of pellet feeding. 

The guys in my club think I'm nuts for feeding straight pellets. Our first old bird race is this weekend, and I am flying birds that they all gave me to start out with last year. I hope I don't get smoked because they will blame it on the pellets 

Michael


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## Char-B Loft (Dec 28, 2008)

Boroview Farm said:


> Have you heard of the "Flying Vet?" Apparently, he reports findings that are unfavorable of pellet feeding.
> 
> The guys in my club think I'm nuts for feeding straight pellets. Our first old bird race is this weekend, and I am flying birds that they all gave me to start out with last year. I hope I don't get smoked because they will blame it on the pellets
> 
> Michael


The Flying Vet is Dr. Colin Walker...In Dr.Walker's book he has stated that prolonged feeding of pellets made for other species such as chickens can cause kidney disease...

BTW this is the current weather forecast for Sonora, KY...If this does not inprove I will sit Saturdays race out...

Saturday: A 50 percent chance of showers and thunderstorms. Cloudy, with a high near 54.


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

Boroview Farm said:


> Have you heard of the "Flying Vet?" Apparently, he reports findings that are unfavorable of pellet feeding.
> 
> The guys in my club think I'm nuts for feeding straight pellets. Our first old bird race is this weekend, and I am flying birds that they all gave me to start out with last year. I hope I don't get smoked because they will blame it on the pellets
> 
> Michael


The guys in my club are very cheap. They complain when the 50lb bags of locally custom mixed feed goes up from 11.50 to 12.00. No way am I telling them I'm feeding straight pellets that cost nearly twice that. Some of them even cut their feed with chicken pellets to make it go further. If I start winning consistently and they start asking, maybe I'll tell 

I will say, now that I've been feeding pellets for a few months, I do really like them. Feathers are softer, babies are fatter, and certainly they are easy to feed. I don't like the looser poops.


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## SouthTown Racers (Jan 14, 2009)

I fed straight Purina Nutri-blend pellets and I did not like it at all!!! Three things that I found:

1. Pellets are a lot lighter than seed, so the birds always seem hungry.

2. If you give the same 1oz per bird in pellets, it is a ton of feed and the birds over gorge themselves. The birds crops started feeling and looking loose.

3. The birds looked good at first, but after a few months of straight pellets, they started to lose their shine and the sparkle in their eye. I asked some experienced flyers to come over and have a look and they agreed that something was lacking in their diet. After talking to some vets and more flyers, we came up with a all pellet diet lacks fiber.


I think the Purina pellets are great when mixed with a regular grain mix... I think mixing the two is almost a perfect diet.

My birds last year showed 100% improvment after I re-introduced grain to their feed. In my breeding loft I have a hopper full of the "GREEN" pellets, so they always have somthing to eat if they run out of grain while Im at work.
Im happier with this years youngster than the past two breeding seasons by far!!


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## Boroview Farm (Mar 11, 2010)

Char-B Loft said:


> The Flying Vet is Dr. Colin Walker...In Dr.Walker's book he has stated that prolonged feeding of pellets made for other species such as chickens can cause kidney disease...


That follows some of the research that I have found. Time will tell for me here at the farm. For now, I am sticking with pellets.



Char-B Loft said:


> BTW this is the current weather forecast for Sonora, KY...If this does not inprove I will sit Saturdays race out...
> 
> Saturday: A 50 percent chance of showers and thunderstorms. Cloudy, with a high near 54.


Yeah, I've been watching the reports. Not too excited about the chance for rain and thunderstorms. I'm waiting till Friday to make my decision.

-Michael


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

SouthTown Racers said:


> I fed straight Purina Nutri-blend pellets and I did not like it at all!!! Three things that I found:
> 
> 1. Pellets are a lot lighter than seed, so the birds always seem hungry.


Agreed. That took a few days for me to figure out.



> 2. If you give the same 1oz per bird in pellets, it is a ton of feed and the birds over gorge themselves. The birds crops started feeling and looking loose.


Yup - I was used to feeding 1 fluid oz of grain out of a measuring cup. When I started feeding pellets and was feeding the same amount, they couldn't be satisfied and were panicky hungry. Then I measured the feeds by weight and found that 1 oz of pellets was almost twice as much volume as 1 oz of grain. In other words, a 50 lb bag of grain was about half the size of the 50 lb bag of pellets - so I don't think they are necessarily eating more, but I had to adjust my measuring system to make sure they got enough. Now they are quite satisfied. My birds will still stuff themselves when they eat (I feed twice a day except for breeders) and their crops will waggle a little bit. I do believe that the pellets digest much faster so they get hungrier quicker. At this point, I'm very OK with that when it comes to training YB. They are always ready to eat but I still feel like I'm giving them what they need to grow.



> 3. The birds looked good at first, but after a few months of straight pellets, they started to lose their shine and the sparkle in their eye. I asked some experienced flyers to come over and have a look and they agreed that something was lacking in their diet. After talking to some vets and more flyers, we came up with a all pellet diet lacks fiber.


I've been feeding pellets for four months now and haven't seen any issues. They may in fact be better off now than they were. There is no telling the quality of the grain I was using or how nutritionally complete it was. I'm beginning to believe it wasn't very good. However, I will certainly be aware of the issues you were having and keep an eye out - so thanks for sharing that.


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## Char-B Loft (Dec 28, 2008)

Boroview Farm said:


> That follows some of the research that I have found. Time will tell for me here at the farm. For now, I am sticking with pellets.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I wish all the guys in our club would race on pellets...


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## Boroview Farm (Mar 11, 2010)

*haha*



Char-B Loft said:


> I wish all the guys in our club would race on pellets...


Not the first time I have heard that one. Time will tell. 

It's looking like Saturday is going to be a no-go for the race out of KY. I didn't think you were racing old birds this year; did you change your mind?

-Michael


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## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

Hi guys I've been reading a lot about the pellets and so far it seems only people with homers feed them. I keep Pakistani high flyers. Do you think the pigeons would benefit from the Green and Gold pellets? Any input would be appreciated as I will be out of feed in about 5 days and will be buying more feed.


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## Char-B Loft (Dec 28, 2008)

Boroview Farm said:


> Not the first time I have heard that one. Time will tell.
> 
> It's looking like Saturday is going to be a no-go for the race out of KY. I didn't think you were racing old birds this year; did you change your mind?
> 
> -Michael


I am not going to race young birds...I was always going to race old birds...


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