# Sick Pigeon- puffed up, isolates herself



## 1bad97svt (Apr 19, 2017)

Question everybody, got a 2 month old bird who's been acting sick the last few days. Always by itself and sort of puffed up with its tail down. Yesterday when I fed them she ate a bit and then threw it up and then ate a little more and drank some water. Any ideas what this is off hand? None of my other birds are showing symptoms. I have a tiny tiny bit of baytril and full supply of doxycycline*, 4-1, wormer, and canker meds, I looked in her mouth and no visible canker though. If it something that I can treat with baytril, what would be the individual oral dosage size? Same question for doxy for an individual oral dose. I have a syringe. I will treat the whole flock however I'd like to get a head start on this guy/girl since she's showing the worst symptoms, therefore the question about individual dosages. Thanks in advance for any input.


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## bootface (Jun 29, 2017)

You need to separate the sick bird, and possibly supply supportive care. She may need to be force fed, and make sure she's getting enough fluids. 
I can't diagnose anything based on that. The dose I learned for Baytril is kg*22/concentration, but apparently that's higher than a lot of the stuff online. I wouldn't go around giving antibiotics based on those symptoms, I think it would make more sense to treat for canker first. Honestly, I'd just take her to the vet.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Vet exam would be ideal. With a 2 month old bird, based on our experience with poor Chloe, would test for an immune disease if the bird doesnt improve.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Doxy is usually for respiratory infections. Sick is sick though, but without a vet check, or at least the droppings, no way to know exactly what it is.
If no vet and I want to cover most bases, then I would treat for both canker, and bacterial with Baytril. 4 in 1's are a waste of time and money. They don't normally have enough of each particular drug in them to cure anything. Also, why give them something that has meds for other things they don't need treated?

Is she eating less, but drinking more? Unless you take her out of there and keep her in a cage inside, than you can't really monitor her. You need to bring her in where she is warm, keep her in a cage with paper towels to be able to monitor her droppings. This way you can also tell just how much she is eating or drinking. You can see what her droppings look like. A sick bird cannot keep themselves warm, another reason she needs to come in the house.
Can you post a picture of her droppings? And a picture of the bird?


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## Sonny Loft (Nov 24, 2016)

Sounds like


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## Sonny Loft (Nov 24, 2016)

Sounds like young bird sickness. I advice pellets or small seeds high in fat. Pellets when thrown up won't be eaten again and small seeds are easy to digest. Lots of garlic and oregano. I'd put electrolytes in the water.


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## bootface (Jun 29, 2017)

Sonny Loft said:


> Sounds like young bird sickness. I advice pellets or small seeds high in fat. Pellets when thrown up won't be eaten again and small seeds are easy to digest. Lots of garlic and oregano. I'd put electrolytes in the water.


Apparently "young bird sickness" can refer to viral, bacterial or parasitic infections of almost any kind. That's not a diagnosis, and there's no way to treat it based on that.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Article on Young Bird Disease.

http://www.melbournebirdvet.com/young-bird-disease.aspx


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Chloe had circovirus. She had one infection after another and came from the breeder with it. Circo completely destroys the birds immune system. It is contagious. We quarantine new birds for eight weeks and i will never get young birds again as it was just too tragic. There is a blood test for circo. I dont know if it is common where you live but hope that is not what your bird has, would encourage you to see if a vet can figure out what is wrong. Hope your bird is all better with treatment. If circo is not common in your area, your bird may recover with the right treatment. Chloe had a cold, then canker, then staph, then yeast, then malaria, then aspergillosis. Treating her was like playing whack a mole. 24 hour vet care could not save her. But your bird may just have something simple. If she is fluffed up, would make sure to keep her extra warm.


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## 1bad97svt (Apr 19, 2017)

Thank you every body for the responses, they are much appreciated. Unfortunately, I lost this bird the same day as the post. I only had the bird for about 3wks, and had only begun to notice her acting sickly in this last week. This is the first bird I've lost due to illness and I feel horrible. The one thing I did notice before she died was a very bright green liquid feces, that combined with the puffy isolated nature are the only symptoms I noticed. 

Is Amoxicillin a good broad spectrum antibiotic to have on hand for bacterial intestinal diseases? I'm currently treating the flock for Canker since that is the last illness that showed itself except for this one that killed #51. 

I do add Oregano to the feed, as well as cinnamon, probiotics, and a multivitamin powder (separately on a rotating basis). I also add honey in the water occasionally (today in fact).

I've also disinfected the feeders and water jugs and plan to get in and disinfect some more of the loft tomorrow to reduce exposure. 

What meds does everybody keep on hand as a must have? Thank you! I hope everybody enjoyed their Thanksgiving.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Amoxicillin is good, but I'd rather have Baytril (Enrofloxacin) if I could only have one. Having both is better of course.

A good wormer like Moxidectin plus, Avio Ekto/Endo, or Medpet Mediworm. You want something that treats more than just roundworm. These do that, including tapeworm.

Corrid or something for Cocci.

I like Metronidazole for canker, and Ronidazole for a flock treatment in the water. Have not had good luck with Spartrix.

Good to have something for yeast for when you put them on antibiotics. I like Nystatin, or Medistatin that you can get for birds without a script.

Others will probably have suggestions of what they like. But to me, these are necessities.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

If possible would ask a vet to autopsy the poor thing. Am sorry for your loss and hope it was not circovirus. We disinfected everything nonporous with bleach and threw away everything porous. And per our vets recommendation, will not acquire young ( less than adult. ) birds again and will quarantine any new birds for 4 weeks. Will not get birds from that local breeder again. People with pigeons around here said circovirus "moved through the area" a year before we got Chloe. The breeder we got her from lets his domestics loose with ferals and lets them all cage indiscriminately together. Fortunately we had poor Chloe quarantined so no one else caught the circovirus. I hope to never encounter that again. Hope your other birds stay healthy. Am sorry you have had such a hard time.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

I'm sorry you lost your youngster. 
I pretty much do what Jay3 does.
I treat my birds myself. I live in an area where there are no vets familiar with pigeon illnesses.....and I'm a vet tech.
The bright green fecal means starvation. Whenever you see a bird off by itself and puffed up, he needs to be removed to an isolation cage right away. When you notice that, they are already very sick, they go down fast at that point.
The main drugs I use are metronidizole (ronidizole for flock treatment) for canker. Baytril for bacterial infections. Albon for coccidia. And I rotate pyrantel and moxidectin (sheep drench in their water) for wormings.
The biggest problem I have, because I have so many birds, is roundworms.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Hi Waynette.......hope you had a nice Thanksgiving.

1bad97svt---Waynette brought up a good point. She rotates her wormers. That is important to do, and I meant to mention that, but didn't. Thanks Waynette.  It's good to rotate different drugs so that the worms or bacteria don't build up an immunity to them. Use a drug a few times, then change to the other. Then go back to the first one again. You can start by buying the one drug for whatever it is, then later on picking up another. This way you build up your meds supply. If kept well, the drugs last for waaay past the expiration.


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## 1bad97svt (Apr 19, 2017)

I'm back from disinfecting the loft, thank you again for your responses. I do have metronidazole, coccivet, doxycycline and avioworm and I just ordered a large bottle of Baytril. I keep all my meds in our kitchen pantry so they are at room temperature. Thanks for the tip on rotating the wormers. I'll worm them after the canker treatment and pick up another line of treatment to rotate them in the future. 

Msfreebird- Do you mean nutritional starvation? Because I would watch them all eat during feeding time and the only time she didn't eat is on the day she died. To your point, she was thin when she died. Thank you very much for the information on the isolation and puffy nature, I knew that the puffiness was a sign of illness but in the future i'll act on it faster. 

Does anybody happen to know what would be an _individual dose_ of baytril I could treat a sick bird with in the future? I'd like to be able to administer them a potentially life saving dose in the future. 
Jay3-, any insight on individual dosage?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The lime green dropping can be Salmonella. The very dark green dropping is usually starvation droppings from not eating. Also, sometimes it looks like they are eating when they are just picking up seed and dropping it.
If using the liquid 10% Baytril it would be about like this.

For a 450gm pigeon .09cc Homing pigeon
for a 400gm pigeon .08cc Homing pigeon
for a 350gm pigeon .07cc
for a 300gm pigeon .06cc Roller
for a 250gm pigeon .05cc
Don't know if that is what you have? Rather than breaking up the dose and giving it 2 times daily, it is more effective if given the whole dose 1 time a day.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Also wanted to add that canker doesn't always show in the throat, and can make them vomit. They usually will go off their feed, and will drink more. The droppings will be wet, and will eventually turn to the dark green (from not eating), with a lot of water around it.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Hi, I'm really sorry about your loss.

In add to what other members said - Baytril, Mycostatine (nystatin), etc - I always keep on hands: 

- a pain med: Metacam for cats (Meloxicam) 0,5 mg/ml;

- Éosine 2%: that's an antifungal disinfectant. I find it really helpful in situation of fungal infection (infection of the mouth/throat).You have to dip a Q-tip in it and gently "paint"/apply it in the mouth/throat. I'm going to post a picture so, if you want, you can look for something similar (this is a french disinfectant). My vet told me to use it also in case of canker (just if it's possible of course);

- an antibiotic cream.

In my first-aid kit I also always have a disinfectant like Betadine 10% and a powder which stops the bleeding and heals the wounds.

These are the must have, then of course I have other meds.

Talking about canker meds, I recently tried Spartrix. I successfully treated a bad case of canker but, as I just used it to treat one case, I don't have a definite opinion on it.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Sorry I forgot the pics...


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