# Question for feral flyers



## pouterfly (Apr 16, 2012)

```

```
I have a question for the folks that fly flocks of ferals.

My understanding about feral pigeons is that they are not necessarily faithfull to a loft. They might be quite happy in the loft, or they might for some reason go elsewhere to breed. Also, when a hawk decides to target a loft do the ferals stay or leave for another location?

I have occasional ferals join my flying pouters, sometimes stay for a while, but so far not for very long despite the easy living. Had a young blue check cock join my pouters in the fall but when a Goshawk appeared regularly to hunt my birds he split. Even though this Gos hunted my pouters all winter, they did not leave their loft.

I'm interested in comments about this sort of behavior from anyone flying ferals. Thanks.


----------



## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Ferals are simply on the lookout for the most favorable conditions and will stay wherever they find such. A hawk hanging around does not qualify as one so they leave, whereas your pouters - hawk or no hawk - have no other options because don't know anything else and couldn't survive elsewhere.


----------



## pouterfly (Apr 16, 2012)

Anybody flying a flock of ferals that stay at the loft and not leave when there's hawks hunting them?

I crossed "country" ferals into my pouters a few years back, but once I had enough first cross young I released the ferals back where I got them, never did fly them. The old building where I got them from housed a lot of birds, and they were hunted all winter by a Goshawk, yet they did not leave that old building. The wild flock just adapted to the hunting pressure, quickly out of the building, quickly while feeding, then quickly back to the safety of the building. Very interesting behavior, yet the ones that join my pouters behave differently because they just get up and leave, and I thought this was an interesting comparision.


----------



## switchbackmat69 (Mar 31, 2012)

my ferrals will split for a wile like my rollers and high flyers do. however they come back in about 10 minutes.



nycpigeonlady said:


> Ferals are simply on the lookout for the most favorable conditions and will stay wherever they find such. A hawk hanging around does not qualify as one so they leave, whereas your pouters - hawk or no hawk - have no other options because don't know anything else and couldn't survive elsewhere.



not to be a pain or get on you about anything. I have raised ferals for almoste 4 years now and have never lost one due to leaving. there just like any other bird I have. just not always the brightest. however, I have ferals that wer born here and and I fly them 100+ milies all the time. if they wer going to leave they would of left by now seeing as how they are loose 24/7


----------



## pouterfly (Apr 16, 2012)

Thanks Switchbackmat69 this is the sort of info I was hoping to hear. I know ferals are smart, they have to be otherwise they don't last long as wild birds. But I'm seeing this interesting difference between the few ferals that have joined my birds, and the small wild flocks in my area.

I was curious about your comment "just not always the brightest" because I thought feral pigeons always seemed more with it than domestic pigeons.

Also, what do you mean "I fly them 100+ miles" do you distance fly them like homers?


----------



## switchbackmat69 (Mar 31, 2012)

somtimes they don't trap like homers, instead they will try to get in the flight pen and not trap, like they don't know were to get in. I go to waseca every other weekend and I been turning them loose there for 2 years now every time I go and they always are back when I come home. it's about 105 miles so yes in a sence I distance fly them. but you have to train them like homers. it just takes a little more time. the thing about them is some are together and trap emediatly when they come home. others will try there hardest to get in but walk on the ground and fight the wire on the flight pen. I have noticed also that birds that trap right away for weeks on end al of the suden become the stupid one for a few days or even months at a time. so yeah somtimes "just not always the brightest".


----------



## pouterfly (Apr 16, 2012)

Amazing to hear about their homing ability, I never would have thought. 

One of the reasons this interests me is because I am doing some short distance homing with my pouters, the ones that are 50% or 25% homer. The idea is to take a small flock out 5-15 miles and have them fly home, in hopes that a feral will join them and return to my loft with the pouters. This is kind of a version of thief pouter flying, more suitable my area than more conventional thief pouter flying because I don't have ferals anymore close by me to work.

But I never thought a feral would home over 100 miles, that's incredible to hear this. Also I'm amazed to hear about them trapping good sometimes, and not others. I guess trapping is not part of their natural evolutionary process


----------



## switchbackmat69 (Mar 31, 2012)

well I'v said it before and I'm going to say it again, I whas eather throwen a good hand when I started in pigeons by accident. the first two came out of the elavator when I whas loading grain at the farm. they popped out of the botom when I turned it on and could hardly fly so I caught them and brang them home, the others wer in the silo on top of the unloader when I went to set it up. one thing. if you want homers buy homers and you will be happy. nothing is guaranteed with ferals ever. they are wild birds of unknowen decent. in the usa ferals are all dirived from birds braught here from other countys that got loose. they can be any color or of any breed. knowing that fact they could be from mondanas or rollers, or they could be from race wining homers. and there is no way to know. it's all purly chance. so when somone shoots me down and says it's imposible I just think. your right in your area that mabe so. but I have a good flock of ferals and they do home. that is all I'm saying. the fact is there not homing pigeons and you have to understand that they will not all home like that. all depends on there liniage. raing pigeons and homing pigeons wer bread to do that for 100's of years to get were they are today. to get ferals to do that my take another couple hundred years. you just don't know. like I said it's purley chance.


----------



## pouterfly (Apr 16, 2012)

Yeah, I agree, well said. I live on the prairies, small towns scattered here and there, not another pigeon guy for over a hundred miles, so the ferals where I am must be very similar to original wild type found on cliffs. I find myself more and more drawn to these natural living wild pigeons, the more I investigate them the more interesting they get.

Here's a dark check feral cock that came in last fall with my pouters so you can see the type here, the hen is homer-pouter first cross.


----------



## switchbackmat69 (Mar 31, 2012)

they look just like mine did, I get all sorts of things, I have ferals with bronze bars, now a little brown and white one, and I have all sorts of wild type ferals with white flights and splashing on there head and stuff. if you go to my profile and look at the pics you can see some of them.


----------



## pouterfly (Apr 16, 2012)

Had a peek, which ones can do 100 miles? This really interests me.

Another question, what distance do you start their training, and how much do you increase each time to get up to 100 miles? For me, the furthest I've tried a homer-pouter first cross is 50 miles, lost one the other one came home, but I did a big jump from 15 miles then a test at 50 miles and probably should have increased the distance in smaller steps.


----------



## switchbackmat69 (Mar 31, 2012)

pretty much all of the ones I have can. just in the blood I guess


----------



## AZCorbin (Feb 28, 2011)

I'm under the belief that all pigeons and birds in general can home with proper training. Now the distance to which they can do it would vary depending upon the bird itself, i.e. wing size/shape, cere ect.
I live in what most folks may call "the country" or "the sticks" or here it may be more appropriate to call it the dirt.
I have no ferals here which saddens me. One mile from me is either one or two flocks which stick to two house which are separated by about half a mile.
Seldomly do I see them passing by my place and every so often they may do a lap or two with the tipplers before heading out.

Oh and by "flocks" I mean maybe 10.
I am looking to acquire a feral for my free flying team.


----------



## pouterfly (Apr 16, 2012)

AZCorbin said:


> I am looking to acquire a feral for my free flying team.


I'm also hoping to add a couple of these country ferals to my flying pouters. The dark check that came in with my homing pouters seemed quite happy in my loft, he claimed a nest box and was courting the hens, flew great as part of the pouter flock when they flew out over the valley. When the Goshawk started hunting my birds he would come and go, then he just stayed elsewhere, or possibly he was caught, hard to say. But I'm hoping for another one to show up again, I like them a lot because they are natural hardy suvivors. Ferals can be crossed in to pouters to improve flying ability and general hardiness.

A few years ago I caught a bunch of ferals from the next town down the road and released them in my town, but they did not survive for long thanks to the local folks. I have a lot of respect for those small rural flocks that depend on their wits to survive.


----------



## Armanitvrs (Apr 29, 2012)

Interesting thread. I suppose that if you chose birds with the color markings like the wild rock dove or pigeon is supposed to have them, then that would help you know that your getting as legitemate ferals as you can.


----------



## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

pouterfly said:


> Thanks Switchbackmat69 this is the sort of info I was hoping to hear.


I'm a bit onfused, here, actually. Indeed it might be the sorta info you were hoping to hear, but I have to say it should not necessarily be taken as something to hang your hat on. What I mean is, we need to clarify:

....are we talking Ferals as in just their breed/bloodline ?

Or are we talking Ferals as in born and raised in, then taken from, the Feral world ~ and made to live in a loft situation ? 

Because, most certainly...if the _former_ then, sure...they'd probably act as any other bird in the loft would, and they are of course excellent homing birds. So Switchback's experience would make sense.

But if the _latter_ (which I think is more what Pigeonlady was referring to), then...as they are excellent homing birds, they would not necessarily stay with your other flyers simply because you are homing 'em in your loft....their natural proclivity would be to find their Feral home....

(The third sort of situation would be as someone described above where you get some Ferals who actually _decide_ to join up with your loftbirds... on their own. This happens fairly often, from what I have read here. Again, in this situation, odds are the results would be more like the first situation....)


----------



## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Armanitvrs said:


> Interesting thread. I suppose that if you chose birds with the color markings like the wild rock dove or pigeon is supposed to have them, then that would help you know that your getting as legitemate ferals as you can.


To a point, The problem is it only takes one cross to get back to blue bar, So a bird that looks as "wild type" as can be could actually be half roller for all we know. Vice versa, You may find a heavily pied bird that is pretty close in type to the original "wild type" we think off.


----------



## switchbackmat69 (Mar 31, 2012)

correct, you can NOT rehome a feral bird that is adult. I had mine for two years. consiquently when I turned them loose all but one adult that whas feral went back wild ( left never to be seen again). all the young however that wer born here stayed.


----------



## switchbackmat69 (Mar 31, 2012)

switchbackmat69 said:


> well I'v said it before and I'm going to say it again, I whas eather throwen a good hand when I started in pigeons by accident. the first two came out of the elavator when I whas loading grain at the farm. they popped out of the botom when I turned it on and could hardly fly so I caught them and brang them home, the others wer in the silo on top of the unloader when I went to set it up. one thing. if you want homers buy homers and you will be happy. nothing is guaranteed with ferals ever. they are wild birds of unknowen decent. in the usa ferals are all dirived from birds braught here from other countys that got loose. they can be any color or of any breed. knowing that fact they could be from mondanas or rollers, or they could be from race wining homers. and there is no way to know. it's all purly chance. so when somone shoots me down and says it's imposible I just think. your right in your area that mabe so. but I have a good flock of ferals and they do home. that is all I'm saying. the fact is there not homing pigeons and you have to understand that they will not all home like that. all depends on there liniage. racing pigeons and homing pigeons wer bread to do that for 100's of years to get were they are today. to get ferals to do that my take another couple hundred years. you just don't know. like I said it's purley chance.


thats wat I said to start with and I stand by that statement as fact.


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

once you give a loft and home to a feral pigeon he is not feral any longer..so really the birds in you're loft would be the same as mine in my loft. except they are not a breed of pigeon but a mix. some maybe lost homers too.


----------



## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

switchbackmat69 said:


> correct, you can NOT rehome a feral bird that is adult. I had mine for two years. consiquently when I turned them loose all but one adult that whas feral went back wild ( left never to be seen again). all the young however that wer born here stayed.


You say you can NOT home a feral bird that is an adult

Further down you say one of the ferals you tried to home stuck round so you CAN rehome ferals, I agree the success rate is low but it CAN be done



spirit wings said:


> once you give a loft and home to a feral pigeon he is not feral any longer..so really the birds in you're loft would be the same as mine in my loft. except they are not a breed of pigeon but a mix. some maybe lost homers too.


The birds are still off feral bloodlines and have still been living a feral life so would have feral pigeon behaviours and tendancys which I think is what pouterfly is interested in.


----------



## pouterfly (Apr 16, 2012)

Having had a couple days to think about my original question and read the comments, it seems like there's a clear answer.

Switchbackmat69 says that when his ferals are attacked be a hawk, they return in about ten minutes. But I discover his birds are being hunted by a Red-tail hawk rather than a Goshawk, and that is a completely different story. The Red-tail ignores his blue bar and blue check ferals because it knows they are too difficult to catch, so the ferals do not perceive this type of hawk to be much of a threat.

A Goshawk on the other hand is deadly to any pigeon, so it seems that my ferals split because they know a Goshawk is a deadly serious threat.

And I pointed out that even though a big flock of ferals down the road from me are also hunted by Goshawks yet they do not leave their home, it seems that the key difference is that they are born there so they are "imprinted" to that location and faithfull to it just like a homing pigeon would be to it's loft. The reason that the ferals at my place leave when they are hunted by a Goshawk is that my loft is not their original home, they are not imprinted to it, it's more or less just a convenient place to stop. Nice place they would think, but only until the deadly Goshawk appears then it becomes "nice knowing you, I'm outa here".

Those two points seem to have answered my question, thanks everybody for your comments.


----------

