# Pigeon having trouble Standing up



## prakhargr8 (May 8, 2008)

Hi everyone.. a couple of days back a baby pigeon dropped into my balconey being attacked by crows.. I saved him from the crows. He had two wounds and some of his feathers were missing. He looked to be around 14 days old, judging from this page, http://www.speedpigeon.com/baby_racing_pigeon.htm

Now he's around 22 days old and was doing fine.The wounds have healed and there is feather where the wound used to be.

Today, after feeding him, I noticed that he had become rather dirty and food was sticking and dried to his feathers. So I put him under water in a sink and cleaned him off. I noticed that after this he was shivering, and seemed to be sitting continuously but I figured he's just cold so I dried him off with a hair drier (I made sure it was at a comfortable distance). 

But now he is not standing up at all. He is otherwise chirping, making the usual noises and flapping his wings and if I pick him up, he does wrap around his claws around my fingers, but not so excitedly as earlier.

What do you think is the problem? Did I hurt the little guy? I feel so bad since he's not standing up..

Please help!

PS. I stay in India and there is not a very good medi-care infrastructure for animals, so I may have trouble finding a vet for birds if required.. 

Most people would ignore birds.. dogs and cats are a differnet case..


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Keep him really warm. Do you have a heating pad you can put underneath him. It should be set no hight than the lowest setting. Did you feed him when he as wet and cold?


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## prakhargr8 (May 8, 2008)

*...*

He was warm when I fed him, but I immidiately cleaned him up after that... do you suspect that is the problem??

I do have a heating pad and I'll put it under him right away.. but the temperature here is high anyway around 42 Degree CELCIUS... Do you think I should still put it there?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

It might be a nutrition problem. Is he getting any calcium? What are you feeding him?

Pidgey


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## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

prakhargr8 said:


> He was warm when I fed him, but I immidiately cleaned him up after that... do you suspect that is the problem??
> 
> I do have a heating pad and I'll put it under him right away.. but the temperature here is high anyway around 42 Degree CELCIUS... Do you think I should still put it there?


That is pretty high. I don't know for sure but it is possible for the baby to get too hot. You could put a feather duster over the baby.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Babies need to have supplement heat, e.g. a heating pad, set on low, heat lamp, etc., if they are ill or injured, as opposed to just keeping them in a warm room or wrapping them in a blanket.
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=13601

If you feel your little one has become cold to the point of not appearing to warm up on his own, you might try placing him on a towel lined heating pad, set on low, for a *short time*, keeping a *very* close eye on him. 

Wishing the best to you & your baby. 
Please keep us posted.

Cindy


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

That means it's about 107 degrees Fahrenheit. Maybe the baby is too hot.
Is it fully feathered?


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## prakhargr8 (May 8, 2008)

Pidgey said:


> It might be a nutrition problem. Is he getting any calcium? What are you feeding him?
> 
> Pidgey


Since baby pigeon formula is not available here, I started feeding him oatmeal in the beginning and now I started adding a mixture of pulses and rice etc. in that.

Do you think a nutrition problem would manifest suddenly like this? because before the bath he was totally normal, running around, making noises etc.. Now, everything still seems normal except for the running around.



Charis said:


> That means it's about 107 degrees Fahrenheit. Maybe the baby is too hot.
> Is it fully feathered?


He is feathered, he looks similar to this










And since night was a bit cooler I tried placing him on the pad, but it seems he finds it uncomfortable and used his beak, wings and *small* feet movement to move away from it.

What should I do?

I have tried looking up for vets but since it is a mini-festival time here, its making it more difficult.

PS. Thanks to everyone who replied.

PSS. I feel so bad and feel like an idiot, I made a stupid little mistake and the poor baby bird cant even get on his feet because of it.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

prakhargr8 said:


> Since baby pigeon formula is not available here, I started feeding him oatmeal in the beginning and now I started adding a mixture of pulses and rice etc. in that.
> 
> Do you think a nutrition problem would manifest suddenly like this? because before the bath he was totally normal, running around, making noises etc.. Now, everything still seems normal except for the running around.
> 
> ...


* If he doesn't seem to want to stay on the heating pad, then he probably doesn't need it. If you can arrange it so he has an option to use or not to use it, that would be OK. Otherwise, I think I would opt to remove it.

** I realize you feel bad because he isn't up tp par, but I can't think of anything you did to cause this problem. It's highly possible there is an underlying problem that just happened to surface at the same time you bathed him.  
Just curious, where exactly were the wounds? Did you separate the feathers real good in those areas so you could get a real good look at the wound sites?

If you can't find any baby bird formula, you might try some human 'chicken' baby food that comes in those small jars? 
If he's around the age of the one in the picture you posted, he should be starting to eat seeds on his own. Have you tried introducing seeds to him yet?

Cindy


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## prakhargr8 (May 8, 2008)

AZWhitefeather said:


> * If he doesn't seem to want to stay on the heating pad, then he probably doesn't need it. If you can arrange it so he has an option to use or not to use it, that would be OK. Otherwise, I think I would opt to remove it.
> 
> ** I realize you feel bad because he isn't up tp par, but I can't think of anything you did to cause this problem. It's highly possible there is an underlying problem that just happened to surface at the same time you bathed him.
> Just curious, where exactly were the wounds? Did you separate the feathers real good in those areas so you could get a real good look at the wound sites?
> ...


The wounds were on his head, two of them and then he was sort of bald then so there was no need to remove any feather. It seems to be nicely healed now though. And part of its wing(Only feathers) was pulled out by the crow but there was no bleeding. There, new feathers have started to grow as well. 

Is it possible that because I bathed him right after feeding, caused the problem?

Oh and I'll try getting some human baby food and will dog food do too? I tried giving him seeds but he doesnt pick them up...

Also if I pick him up he holds my fingers with his claws, and when I turn him upside down to check for any injuries, he moves his feet but when I keep him back he does not stand up..


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

prakhargr8 said:


> * *The wounds were on his head, two of them and then he was sort of bald then so there was no need to remove any feather.* It seems to be nicely healed now though. And part of its wing(Only feathers) was pulled out by the crow but there was no bleeding. There, new feathers have started to grow as well.
> 
> ** *Is it possible that because I bathed him right after feeding, caused the problem?*
> 
> ...


* I was thinking more on the line of puncture wounds on his back or sides. 
Sounds like he's clear on that though.  

** I can't think of how that would cause him to all of a sudden lose the use of his legs. I've never bathed a baby after feeding, rather just dampened a small cloth & cleaned their face, neck or wherever the food happen to go that didn't get inside.  

*** Make sure it's straight 'chicken' baby food.
Some members have soaked pieces of puppy chow & given little pieces to them.
He may not know what to do with the seeds. You can sprinkle a few smaller seeds on a towel in front of him & then mimic picking them up. Pijjie babies are curious & will take note of what you're doing & eventually give it a try.

Cindy


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Do you have any pet shops that sell bird vitamins? You may need to order some on line. 
Can you get baby cereal for human babies? If so, I would buy the rice cereal and with it mix some applesauce for human babies. You can also feed corn and peas...I use the frozen kind and just defrost them under warm water.I open the mouth and put them to the back of the throat. You will need to feed 20-30 a feeding.
If the baby is the size of the one in the picture you posted, it is old enough to eat on it's own. You are going to need to be daddy bird and teach him. Play with the food with your hands, with the baby watching.... pick a piece of seed up and put it in his mouth.... play with the seed some more and repeat over and over. The baby will get it.
It is easier for them to learn to pick up seed, if they know how to drink water. Does this baby drink water on it's own yet? If not, gently put your finger behind the pigeons head and push the head forward until the beak touches the water and goes into the water a bit. Be careful to not get the nostrils in the water. the baby should be very excited about learning how to drink.
I don't know why the pigeon can't walk. Could be he has worms which wouldn't be surprising as most of them do.


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## prakhargr8 (May 8, 2008)

AZWhitefeather said:


> * I was thinking more on the line of puncture wounds on his back or sides.
> Sounds like he's clear on that though.
> 
> ** I can't think of how that would cause him to all of a sudden lose the use of his legs. I've never bathed a baby after feeding, rather just dampened a small cloth & cleaned their face, neck or wherever the food happen to go that didn't get inside.
> ...


Thanks a lot for all the advice Cindy. I'll try what you suggest. I hope the little guy(I usually call him Poop-Master, or Sir Poops-a-Lot, and if he is a she I might call her Mary Poopins) get better.

Anyway will keep everyone updated.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

prakhargr8 said:


> Thanks a lot for all the advice Cindy. I'll try what you suggest. I hope the little guy(I usually call him Poop-Master, or Sir Poops-a-Lot, and if he is a she I might call her *Mary Poopins*) get better.
> 
> Anyway will keep everyone updated.


Mary Poopins, LOVE it!!  

Cindy


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## prakhargr8 (May 8, 2008)

Charis said:


> Do you have any pet shops that sell bird vitamins? You may need to order some on line.
> Can you get baby cereal for human babies? If so, I would buy the rice cereal and with it mix some applesauce for human babies. You can also feed corn and peas...I use the frozen kind and just defrost them under warm water.I open the mouth and put them to the back of the throat. You will need to feed 20-30 a feeding.
> If the baby is the size of the one in the picture you posted, it is old enough to eat on it's own. You are going to need to be daddy bird and teach him. Play with the food with your hands, with the baby watching.... pick a piece of seed up and put it in his mouth.... play with the seed some more and repeat over and over. The baby will get it.
> It is easier for them to learn to pick up seed, if they know how to drink water. Does this baby drink water on it's own yet? If not, gently put your finger behind the pigeons head and push the head forward until the beak touches the water and goes into the water a bit. Be careful to not get the nostrils in the water. the baby should be very excited about learning how to drink.
> I don't know why the pigeon can't walk. Could be he has worms which wouldn't be surprising as most of them do.


I couldn't find anything similar to what Cindy mentioned, so I bought Cerelac Wheat - 4 vegetables (http://www.nestle.co.uk/Nutrition/InfantAndChildNutrition/ProductInformation/CERELAC.htm)

Can I mix a little sugar in it so he might like it?

And I'll go try what you suggest.. He doesn't drink water on his own either..

Does having worms make a pigeon unable to walk?
If he has worms, what is the remedy??



AZWhitefeather said:


> Mary Poopins, LOVE it!!
> 
> Cindy




Oh another thing I forgot to mention, his diet has gone down in the past 2-3 days.. It is less that half of what his intake was before that.. 

I feed him using this method..

http://www.urbanwildlifesociety.org/WLR/BabyPij&DuvFeedg.htm

When I feed him, he seems eager to eat and puts his beak inside the hole, but stops after eating about a quarter of the food present in the syringe & refuses to eat after that..

Even today he's eaten very little.. although he seems active enough..

Oh & I *think* that he might be slowly regaining the use of his feet as he is sort of hopping on them.. but then it just might be me seeing things..

Do you think this is related??


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

prakhargr8 said:


> * *Can I mix a little sugar in it so he might like it?*
> 
> ** * He doesn't drink water on his own either..*
> 
> ...


* I, personally, wouldn't add any sugar. 

** I would suggest gently dipping his beak into a small amount of water.

*** I understand worms can affect a pigeon in many ways.  
Since I've never dealt with them, assistance with possible treatment will be forthcoming from our 'wormer' experienced members. 

Feeding can be a challenge at times. 

**** That's great news!  

Cindy


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## prakhargr8 (May 8, 2008)

OK.. I think he has not really regained the use of his feet(atleast not more than the hoppping)

About the feeding thing, I understand that it can be problematic but it seems to me, I dont know, a little more than that.. He did not eat more than 40-50 ml all of yesterday..


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

One thing we might try is Ciprofloxacin, in case he's got a case of articular Paratyphoid. That's a disease that can give symptoms like arthritis. It's possible that he was actually beginning the problem before you bathed him because that'd be a reason for poops stuck to him if he were sitting in them due to some pain in standing up. Anyhow, since you're in India, why don't you contact this member:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/member.php?u=3082

...to see what it takes to get Ciprofloxacin. She had to do it once. Just email her and tell her I sent you.

Pidgey


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## prakhargr8 (May 8, 2008)

Pidgey said:


> One thing we might try is Ciprofloxacin, in case he's got a case of articular Paratyphoid. That's a disease that can give symptoms like arthritis. It's possible that he was actually beginning the problem before you bathed him because that'd be a reason for poops stuck to him if he were sitting in them due to some pain in standing up. Anyhow, since you're in India, why don't you contact this member:
> 
> http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/member.php?u=3082
> 
> ...


Alright, I'll do that.. 

Anyway I found a vet and went to him, but turns out he was out of station, so his assistant looked at the pigeon, she says it might be a disease(She did not remember the name) in which pigeons start twisting their head and later die, but she said shes not sure of it and I have to go again on Monday when the Vet will be present, to get the little guy a proper check-up.

For right now, she asked me to give him 6 drops of "Betnesol" twice a day, It says on the box, "BETAMETHASONE SODIUM PHOSPATE ORAL DROPS"

"*Contra-Indications*: Systemic infections, hyper-sensitivity to any component, live virus immunization"


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I think the assistant was talking about PMV. Pidgey mentioned Paratyphoid. They have similar symptoms. The birds can recover from either so don't let anyone talk you into having the bird put down because they tell you it can't recover.


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## prakhargr8 (May 8, 2008)

Charis said:


> I think the assistant was talking about PMV. Pidgey mentioned Paratyphoid. They have similar symptoms. The birds can recover from either so don't let anyone talk you into having the bird put down because they tell you it can't recover.


Alright Charis, I'll keep everyone updated.. 

Oh and I would never let them "mercy kill" the little fellow.


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## prakhargr8 (May 8, 2008)

From this page:

http://www.epah.net/birds/Paramyxovirus.html

Signs- Initially, infected pigeons will consume more water and have watery, greenish droppings. They will often go off feed, act depressed, rest fluffed-up and lose weight. Later in the course of the disease, birds may develop neurologic signs. The first being incoordination and inability to fly. Head and neck twisting is easily recognized and often leads to circling or head and neck tremors. Paralysis or weakness of wings and legs can also occur. Nine out of 10 birds with prominent neurologic signs will die and unvaccinated squab mortality may reach 100%.

It makes sence..! Most of this is present..


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

prakhargr8 said:


> From this page:
> 
> http://www.epah.net/birds/Paramyxovirus.html
> 
> ...


* Sadly, this is sooo far from the truth.
If proper supportive care is given, PMV pijjies can & *do* survive. 

Cindy


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

*Cindy's right...this is so far from the truth.*



AZWhitefeather said:


> * Sadly, this is sooo far from the truth.
> If proper supportive care is given, PMV pijjies can & *do* survive.
> 
> Cindy


There is a lot of mis information in the global community about PMV. Many veterinary professionals don't know that pigeons with PMV can survive because they don't give them supportive care and put them down without giving them a chance to recover. They have bought into the myths about recovery and keep the myth alive by the limited information they believe and share with their clients. I don't mean to say that all veterinarians are this way but many are.


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## prakhargr8 (May 8, 2008)

prakhargr8 said:


> From this page:
> 
> http://www.epah.net/birds/Paramyxovirus.html
> 
> ...


Just to let you guys know, that is what i noticed so far..


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## prakhargr8 (May 8, 2008)

Sorry for the double post..


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

I don't know where some of these sites get their information. I think there is sometimes confusion between the situation in free-living birds, and loft birds.

Most birds in lofts, or rescued off the streets, who are given supportive care will survive. PMV itself has a low mortality rate. 

Most ferals who are never rescued, and develop severe neurological signs, probably will die. It won't be the PMV virus which kills them, but that is almost beside the point - if they cannot fly or co-ordinate their movements, they are at the mercy of predators, accidents, starvation and thirst. 

John


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## prakhargr8 (May 8, 2008)

John_D said:


> I don't know where some of these sites get their information. I think there is sometimes confusion between the situation in free-living birds, and loft birds.
> 
> Most birds in lofts, or rescued off the streets, who are given supportive care will survive. PMV itself has a low mortality rate.
> 
> ...


Oh that makes sense. I guess people do not really research whatever they put on their websites. That probably leads to many people getting pigeons, who can survive, put to sleep.

Oh and I have some good news. My little buddy seems to be making progress since I gave him the medicine prescribed by the assistance. He's walking again! 

Although he's a little wobbly, it seems the medicine is working. I also gave him some extract from Neem leaves. 

He is also eating more, not back to the original levels, but there definitely is an improvement. So, I'm crossing my fingers and hoping for a quick complete recovery.

I will keep everyone updated.

Prakhar


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## prakhargr8 (May 8, 2008)

Update.

So my little pigeon had been making excellent progress and last night I was thinking I'll write a little thank you for everyone. 

Anyway since he/she has grown quite a bit so I started to let him out a little. He is really curious outside, observes everything and generally seems to like it. Everything seemed fine.

However, today when I took him to the balconey he jumped off my hand and ended up breaking his left leg. Something like the human femur, but close to the knee.

Anyway I took him to the vet and he says in about two weks he should be okay and taped his leg with two match sticks as support. But, he seemed a little careless and did not try to align the bone and taped it pretty improperly. He taped it something like this | _| The right being the broken foot. I told him that it seems improper, still he insisted that it was fine.

I was not satisfied and once back home I removed the tape and tried to put it as straight as I could and taped it back.

So any comments?

PS. I don't think I can redo the whole thing, if someone suggests it. I'm really scared of messing it up more and since I've experienced a fracture and I know how much it hurts, I dont want him to be in more pain by redoing it.


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