# Look At What I Found In My Pigeon Coop



## onestop2050 (May 7, 2009)

HELLO,i found this guy in my pigeon coop yestarday,he had killed 3 of my birds and was trying very hard to get out,he had made his way thru a small opening and could not get out,he was very tired and confused,i just walked up on him and picked him up,i have brought him in and he is eating out of my hand, could anyone tell me what kind of hawk he is,i would like to keep him but i dont know squat about hawks, i am going to let him get back to normal and release his beautiful self, what would you guys do.


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## maniac (Sep 27, 2009)

Sure looks like a Perigrine falcon to me


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## johnny9580 (Sep 4, 2010)

It is a Cooper's Hawk. I sure would hate to find one of them in my loft.


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## ValencianFigs (Jul 10, 2010)

WOW!!! It is so beautiful. I think you need a licence so if I was you I would let him go as soon as possible. I hear falconry isn't easy.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

The way he sits on your hand he has been some ones hunter. I would just set it free and hope it does not come back.
Dave


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## Knoc (Jul 10, 2010)

Yeah ya better let him go asap. Its not legal to take one out of captivity also you need a licence to get raised ones.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Does seem like he was someone's pet or hunter once, to be so easy going.


Beautiful Bird!


So sorry about the harm he or she did...glad you are not mad at her/him.


Make sure they are alright though, any hint of 'yellow' in the Urates, he/she could be suffering from Canker...they get it from other Birds and it can do them in if it gets going.

They can get e-coli or salmonella or other things too of course.



In fact, he might indeed be ill to have been acting like this.


You could see if there are any rehabbers or Vets who work with the Dept of the Interior and so on, any Licencees around who have the licence for these Birds, and talk with them. They could accept him/her from you and have him/her under a few days of observation to be sure they are alright Health wise.


I would want to make sure he/she is deiniftely healthy before releasing to the Wild.


Phil
Lv


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

I would definitely try to get this bird to a raptor rehab group in your area. Let them assess whether s/he is wild or was a falconer's bird. Just letting the bird go doesn't seem right or make sense to me. Would you need help in finding a raptor rehab group in your area?

Terry


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## GEMcC5150 (Oct 24, 2010)

All is very good advise and with friend who have hawks it is a lot of work. More work that having a child.


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## Anafam (Oct 6, 2010)

Wow, this hawk must be trained or something to sit on your hand like that.


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## doveone52 (Aug 3, 2009)

I looked into falconry for one of my grandson's and it is a lot of work but doable. To get a license you have to be mentored I think for a year, then take a written test and then have your property and their intended habitat inspected. The first recommended step is to join a falconry club. I'm sure state laws vary. It would be very cool, though!


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## pattersonk2002 (Jun 1, 2008)

*Agreed*



TAWhatley said:


> I would definitely try to get this bird to a raptor rehab group in your area. Let them assess whether s/he is wild or was a falconer's bird. Just letting the bird go doesn't seem right or make sense to me. Would you need help in finding a raptor rehab group in your area?
> 
> Terry


 I think your right Terry, I think this bird needs help before release. I do believe it was trapped in his loft and if you look at the rope it is unstranded so the can put one strand on each leg. This bird is beat down and scared to death. Look at the feathering, this bird is not wet so those feathers and the down feathers should be nice and evenly soft. I am sure it would probally survive if let loose but I think it desirves a chance to recoup someplace first. >Kevin


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## onestop2050 (May 7, 2009)

Does anyone know of a place I can take him to, I live in the st Louis Missouri area, if you are familiar with any place that will rehab him let me know please, this guy is a handful, or I can just release him.


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

It is federally illegal to touch this bird. You can face jail time if there is evidence of you transporting the bird, causing it to be transported, transporting a piece or part of the bird (including a feather), Touching a part of the bird (including a feather), touching the bird, causing it to be touched, etc etc etc. Federal law = federal prison time + very steep fines. All raptors are covered under the Migratory Bird Act.


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

That's for sure a coopers hawk. To be so clam in your hands like probably means it's been around human contact at least once before.


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## onestop2050 (May 7, 2009)

So I guess I am going to prison for trying to help the bird when your average Joe would have killed it as soon as they would have stepped foot in the loft, I need to know where I can take him, I dont need you to give me a speech about the law,


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## hasseian_313 (Oct 31, 2009)

hell come back it cheak or tags or micro chips seems like he is used to humans i seen a hawlk in my coop ran right throw me thsi bird isnt a wild one too tame look around see if any one is missing a hwlk


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

onestop2050 said:


> So I guess I am going to prison for trying to help the bird when your average Joe would have killed it as soon as they would have stepped foot in the loft, I need to know where I can take him, I dont need you to give me a speech about the law,


If a member can't give you information on a rehabber or facility in your area, perhaps you could call some Vets in the area for information? 

*Thank you *for rescuing him!!

Sure wish him the BEST!!

Please let us know what happens.

Shi


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

Wildlife rescue center in Ballwin? Don't know these folks from Adam just did A google search. 636-394-1880 good luck

http://www.mowildlife.org/location.html


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Here is a link that lists some wildlife rehab places in Illinois: http://www.southeasternoutdoors.com/wildlife/rehabilitators/illinois-rehabilitators.html

If none of these are near you, try calling the Illinois Raptor Center and see if they can refer you to someone in your area.

Terry


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

Missouri Falconers Association - president Tom Schultz email [email protected]

here is the website: http://www.missourifalconersassociation.org/page/page/4267782.htm

He may be able to give you a little more direction. 

The other place I mentioned says they take in rescued wildlife everyday. The only birds I saw listed are waterfowl but they also might have some more information.


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## Birdman79 (Aug 9, 2007)

arherp said:


> It is federally illegal to touch this bird. You can face jail time if there is evidence of you transporting the bird, causing it to be transported, transporting a piece or part of the bird (including a feather), Touching a part of the bird (including a feather), touching the bird, causing it to be touched, etc etc etc. Federal law = federal prison time + very steep fines. All raptors are covered under the Migratory Bird Act.


Calm down , i am pretty sure the guy's not gonna get in trouble for helping this raptor.You're making it look like he's committing a hideous crime....


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

I can turn this thread in, and yes, a federal authority would visit you, hand cuff you, and euthanize the bird. I had a good friend that rescued a red tail hawk. It had been hit by a car and had a broken wing. All raptor rehabs euthanize all common raptors that are unreleaseable, or likely would be unreleasable. The guy kept it in a huge wire corn crib. Once the authorities found out, the bird was killed and he is currently in jail.


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## Guest (Nov 3, 2010)

arherp said:


> I can turn this thread in, and yes, a federal authority would visit you, hand cuff you, and euthanize the bird. I had a good friend that rescued a red tail hawk. It had been hit by a car and had a broken wing. All raptor rehabs euthanize all common raptors that are unreleaseable, or likely would be unreleasable. The guy kept it in a huge wire corn crib. Once the authorities found out, the bird was killed and he is currently in jail.


you must not be from around here because no birds of prey are ever put down in my state when they are non releasable here and I can swear by this and if you want to call my friends at raptor trust http://theraptortrust.org/ they will tell you the same... so stop making this person feel like a criminal and that they are commiting a crime by trying to help this bird of prey .. they only arrest and fine people who harm birds not help them, especially when they have proof that they are trying to find a place that will take them :s


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

That is not true. If we are talking about of america, all bop are illegal for unlicensed citizens to do anything with. Obviously, they rarely will take you to jail if you are on the way to raptor rehab with the bird, but legally you should leave the hurt bird where it is and call the proper authorities. Sorry if I am coming off harsh, I run an all-animal rescue and am a pigeon-lover as well, but I also am well read in the law. I will give that rehab place a call and see what is up, if they are not euthanizing unreleasable raptors after the thirty day grace period, they are breaking federal law and risk having their license revoked.


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

it's okay to transport the bird to a federally permitted rehabilitator, no one is going to arrest you as long as you are in contact with the rehabilitator.
over 300 people brought me birds this year, the feds understand that we cannot go out and pick up every bird that we get calls about, but technically your not suppose to
you can get in trouble of course for trying to rehab him yourself it's just not allowed and not wise or safe for an inexperienced person to handle a raptor.
i suspect he is just exhausted and beat up from trying to get out of your loft.
i would let him rest for the night and try to release in the morning if he seems perky and alert, if not call around and see where you can bring him.
we do have to euthanize unreleasable native birds unless they can be placed in an educational program, good news raptors have a good chance, people love the raptors


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Odd...we have non-releaseable BOP here used for "educational" purposes. 

They are also part of a "show" at our yearly Renaissance Festival.

Depends on the organization?

Shi


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## Guest (Nov 4, 2010)

mr squeaks said:


> Odd...we have non-releaseable BOP here used for "educational" purposes.
> 
> They are also part of a "show" at our yearly Renaissance Festival.
> 
> ...


exactly shi, no bird is going to be put down because of a non life threatening disorder !


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

They do obviously keep a few of the poor guys, but what I mean is a rehab organization is forced to euthanize the majority. For example, Black vultures are not pretty, tame, nor do they smell very good. They are not commonly wanted, yet they are often hit by cars, etc. Therefore, many BV will be euthanized on a weekly basis. This applies to all other raptors as well. Waaay more coming in unreleasable than can be used. 

I know the law is pretty stupid, but alas, it is law.


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

Lokota, yes, they are put down for non life threatening disorders! Please, go read the migoratory bird act and raptor rehabber requirements. It will put such a light on this for you. 90% ++ of unreleasable birds are euthanized. I mean no harm  just stating the facts


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

tis sadly true, there is just no place for them to go, in one way the laws that protect are good otherwise there would be tons household wild birds being kept and bred as pets, and people could kill anything they wanted to and you all know they would and do regardless of the protected nature of the bird


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## Guest (Nov 4, 2010)

arherp said:


> Lokota, yes, they are put down for non life threatening disorders! Please, go read the migoratory bird act and raptor rehabber requirements. It will put such a light on this for you. 90% ++ of unreleasable birds are euthanized. I mean no harm  just stating the facts


where exactly are you located because I still dont believe what you have stated as to be true ?? because unless it is a life threatening event in a BOP's life they dont euthinize here


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

That's right. It stinks so bad though, because, yes, many people can not handle a raptor, yet many others are capable of providing a nice large aviary for unreleasables to live out their years in.


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

Federal law. Applies to all of America Lakota  please go read the Migratory Bird Act!


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Wonder what Nabisho in Nevada would have to say about all this??

Love and Hugs
Shi


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## Guest (Nov 4, 2010)

arherp said:


> Federal law. Applies to all of America Lakota  please go read the Migratory Bird Act!


yeah I get that but its not like they press charges on people trying to help these birds so get real ,people cant help them without touching them.. seriously dont be so dramatic


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

If you read a previous reply of mine, my buddy got put in jail for helping a RTH. NOT a happy scenario  
This is one of their crazy laws that IS enforced.


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

arherp said:


> I had a good friend that rescued a red tail hawk. It had been hit by a car and had a broken wing. All raptor rehabs euthanize all common raptors that are unreleaseable, or likely would be unreleasable. The guy kept it in a huge wire corn crib. Once the authorities found out, the bird was killed and he is currently in jail.


 - that is the quote


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## Guest (Nov 4, 2010)

arherp said:


> - that is the quote


and how are they going to find this person and prove they have done anything wrong , they already stated they only wanted to help this bird ...exactly what are you getting at ?


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

Umm, They went to his house and saw the hawk in the cage. Bam, instant felon.


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

Intent is irrelevent.


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

it's sad that happened to your friend but he shouldn't have had the bird he should have brought it to a federally permitted rehabber, someone ratted him out and the feds had to check it out.


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

He knew what would happen to her if he turned her in, so he just kept her. Had her about seven years too. As you can imagine, he was heartbroken when she was euthanized. 
Actually, I think the feds were at his place looking in to some other things..


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## Guest (Nov 4, 2010)

apparently he intended on keeping the bird as where this person just wants to find this bird some help


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

Haha yep and there he rests in jail.  
The OP would face the exact same trouble, they do not really take length of time the animal was held in to the equation. 
I was more of giving a very blunt warning to the OP, though it may have come off harsh


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

that's so sad, poor girl, ur poor friend sux all around


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## Guest (Nov 4, 2010)

arherp said:


> Haha yep and there he rests in jail.
> The OP would face the exact same trouble, they do not really take length of time the animal was held in to the equation.
> I was more of giving a very blunt warning to the OP, though it may have come off harsh


 I raised some BOPs in the good ole days myself , back before all the pieces were in play ... they are awesome birds to say the least but I honestly dont think people who help them or cared for them in general should be held in detention for just doing right by the birds and keeping them alive as it may be .. it seems ludicris to me when it all comes down to the money it takes to buy a permit :s


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I brought a huge hawk into Tufts wild bird clinic when he hit my roof. He was injured and needed help. No one said anything to me. I certainly wasn't going to leave her laying on the sidewalk injured. That's crazy.


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## Guest (Nov 4, 2010)

Jay3 said:


> I brought a huge hawk into Tufts wild bird clinic when he hit my roof. He was injured and needed help. No one said anything to me. I certainly wasn't going to leave her laying on the sidewalk injured. That's crazy.


they are not going to hold someone liable for having a bird for a few days especially when they are doing no more then trying to get the BOP some help


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

The Migratory bird act was in 1914 if I remember correctly, so wow, you have been around quite a while! Did you foster any passenger pigeons back then aswell, in the good 'ole days?  

People are not typically poenalized for taking a bird to a rehabber. I, myself, have done it numerous times. What I am saying is that uncle sam *can* punish you for it though. I don't think you guys are getting that. I am very well read in the law most notably wildlife law, what I am saying is 100% correct, if you go read the Migratory bird act and the process of becoming a rehabber you will find this out. What Uncle sam *can* do and what he *will most likely* do are two different things.

Lokota, I promise you, *legally* they _can_ fine and jail you for holding a bird not just for a few days, but for a few minutes. You cannot, legally, even "attempt to capture" a raptor. Legally, if you step in mud that has a hawk feather in it, and you track that in to your car, and a federal officer sees it, you can be in federal prison. You dont seem to understand that. The law doesn't always make sense.


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

By the way, the only acception is Native Americans that maintain tribal affiliation. They recieve free, approved feathers from the feds.


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## onestop2050 (May 7, 2009)

Thanks for the info, I defenitly would not want to keep him just want to make sure he is ok, if you guys believe that they would put him down I won't take him in I will release him in a couple of days when he has eaten and rested real good,and by the way he is eating like a animal, and he is not showing any signs of sickness he just looks like he was tired and maybe bruised up a bit but nothing broke or abnormal, I hate that someone made me look like a criminal for just giving a damn, cause there is no way I can be mad at this beautiful bird, I had to help him even though he killed some of my birds, he just wants to survive I would never hurt him or her, i don't understand some folks, how could u not help him, screw the law!


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## Guest (Nov 4, 2010)

arherp said:


> The Migratory bird act was in 1914 if I remember correctly, so wow, you have been around quite a while! Did you foster any passenger pigeons back then aswell, in the good 'ole days?
> 
> People are not typically poenalized for taking a bird to a rehabber. I, myself, have done it numerous times. What I am saying is that uncle sam *can* punish you for it though. I don't think you guys are getting that. I am very well read in the law most notably wildlife law, what I am saying is 100% correct, if you go read the Migratory bird act and the process of becoming a rehabber you will find this out.
> 
> Lokota, I promise you, *legally* they _can_ fine and jail you for holding a bird not just for a few days, but for a few minutes. You cannot, legally, even "attempt to capture" a raptor. Legally, if you step in mud that has a hawk feather in it, and you track that in to your car, and a federal officer sees it, you can be in federal prison. You dont seem to understand that. The law doesn't always make sense.


 the problem I see here is you are way to involved in the persecution 
of people for just trying to help and well I dont think you could ever be a frend of mine since all you seem to want to do is get someone in trouble for helping out a bird in need and not actualy helping a bird in need, why would you even go there when the same out come would ensue  you sound like some kind of squealer and would rather a bird be put down then be helped and released


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## Guest (Nov 4, 2010)

onestop2050 said:


> Thanks for the info, I defenitly would not want to keep him just want to make sure he is ok, if you guys believe that they would put him down I won't take him in I will release him in a couple of days when he has eaten and rested real good,and by the way he is eating like a animal, and he is not showing any signs of sickness he just looks like he was tired and maybe bruised up a bit but nothing broke or abnormal, I hate that someone made me look like a criminal for just giving a damn, cause there is no way I can be mad at this beautiful bird, I had to help him even though he killed some of my birds, he just wants to survive I would never hurt him or her, i don't understand some folks, how could u not help him, screw the law!


 yes thats was my point as well .. its not like anyone would known either way if you were to give this bird a chance to make his way back into the great wide world  being native or not you jst wanted to give the bird a chance .l


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

That's where I think you guys are wrong. I like to educate all Chicken/Pigeon/etc fanciers about the "crazy" laws, so they don't put themselves out on the line whilst helping animals. If I was a "sqealer" you would know, because the OP would have a few folks knocking at his door in the next couple of days. 

I believe that if I can help the fanciers better understand the laws, I can help the fanciers keep on doing what they love. At this point, there is enough evidence to have "onestop2050" on trial. If "onestop2050" knows the laws better, next time they will not go give detailed posts about how they will knowingly break federal law, or provide a picture of a bird covered under the MBA. Remember, everything you do is tied to your IP address, and the feds can most easily crack those codes and such. 

I am not trying to be a "jerk", I am simply trying to educate you guys about convicting yourselves of federal crimes on a public forum  
I never said dont help the raptors, I simply stated potential consequences of talking about it.


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

I reread your post Lokota, and you are soo so wrong. You see, that is why internets is bad. You cannot hear my tone, etc. I am all for doing what is neccesary to save any animal, I am just not for advertising things like "screw the law" on public websites that may be regularly monitored by FBI officials


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## Pip Logan (Oct 6, 2009)

I appreciate you trying to give us some info that may not have been known o5her wise. It's crazy all the laws!


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

I agree! I wouldn't know so much about the raptor laws specifically had I not been in the exact same boat several years back!


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## Guest (Nov 4, 2010)

arherp said:


> That's where I think you guys are wrong. I like to educate all Chicken/Pigeon/etc fanciers about the "crazy" laws, so they don't put themselves out on the line whilst helping animals. If I was a "sqealer" you would know, because the OP would have a few folks knocking at his door in the next couple of days.
> 
> I believe that if I can help the fanciers better understand the laws, I can help the fanciers keep on doing what they love. At this point, there is enough evidence to have "onestop2050" on trial. If "onestop2050" knows the laws better, next time they will not go give detailed posts about how they will knowingly break federal law, or provide a picture of a bird covered under the MBA. Remember, everything you do is tied to your IP address, and the feds can most easily crack those codes and such.
> 
> ...


there is nothing they have said or have done that would indite them on any charges who are you kidding ?? he only stated that he wanted to help this bird and was looking for a place that he could take it when many wouldnt even have given this bird a chance and dispensed it without a word ..just because there is a law in place doesnt mean the feds are going to come down on someone for trying to help a bird of prey out within a few day period , I happen to know some game and wildlife people and I havent heard of them arresting anyone for keeping a BOP alive as opposed to killing one . what state do you live in ?


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

I live in KY, but federal means ALL states. There is a HUGE difference between local game wardens/ F&W officers, as opposed to the federal variety. 

I guess you havent read through my posts, so I will type it again - he has posted a picture of himself holding the bird. He has explained the situation. That is plently evidence for him to be arrested. He has plain and simply broken federal law. ( I am not saying that I care so badly about the fact, just trying to help him keep his butt covered)

If you wish to talk about this over telephone I may be able to explain the laws to you a little better, you are welcome to PM me. 
Remember, only trying to help


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## Guest (Nov 4, 2010)

do you seriously know how many people bring birds of prey into rehabs in a year after just hitting them or finding them on highways around here with their cars , if you were correct every single one of them would be able to be arrested for doing so , its not like they dont keep a record of those who bring these birds into the raptor trusts daily , if you were right they would be able to arest every single one of them for just bringing a bird into them every day of the week .. you surely are on a mission to make them feel like its a criminal offense to help out any bird of prey no matter what the circumstances are and I know better being that I volunteered there fo ra whole summer myself and not one was persecuted for just bringing them in no matter what the circumstance were ...


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

They arent usually prosecuted. But they CAN be. Please read the MBA, it should clear this up for you a lot.


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## Guest (Nov 4, 2010)

arherp said:


> They arent usually prosecuted. But they CAN be. Please read the MBA, it should clear this up for you a lot.


dont think I need to as long as he brings this bird to a rehab or releases it he should be ok unless you want to press charges against him for this bird entering his loft .


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

You sound like a ticked off person rambling on the internet, without any knowledge of the topic at hand. READ THE LAWS, it will seriously help you out soo so much. 

I wouldnt press charges dear, that is Uncle Sam's job.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

What a coincidence, I found a young Cooper's Hawk lying stunned on my back porch today with his face down and his wings outspread. When I picked him up and turned him over, I could see his eyes were open and he was dyspneic. Also, his left tibiotarsus felt broken to the point of being very comminuted. I was very tender but could see that he was on his way out. I've no idea how long he'd been laying there but I called the local wildlife avian vet and told them I was bringing him in while still holding him. He started closing his eyes in that way that we rehabbers dread though while I was still on the phone with them. I knew then that it was all over and told them not to bother getting ready because he was gone. I watched him through lunch hoping that he'd give me a sign that I was mistaken, but then rigor started setting in just a little bit. I got to looking at his legs and realized that the tarsometatarsus was VERY thin, way too thin for a healthy bird and yet he was still young. I guess he just didn't succeed at hunting or maybe he was sick with something. My personal take on his leg was that he didn't injure it right then, I'm guessing that he'd been that way for awhile. As thin as his bones were, it seemed to me that he was bound to break them while doing what those birds do (the hunting). He probably only weighed about 250 to 300 grams tops, too. As much as I dislike them for what they do to pigeons, I felt very sorry for him.

Pidgey


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

onestop2050 said:


> Thanks for the info, I defenitly would not want to keep him just want to make sure he is ok, if you guys believe that they would put him down I won't take him in I will release him in a couple of days when he has eaten and rested real good,and by the way he is eating like a animal, and he is not showing any signs of sickness he just looks like he was tired and maybe bruised up a bit but nothing broke or abnormal, I hate that someone made me look like a criminal for just giving a damn, cause there is no way I can be mad at this beautiful bird, I had to help him even though he killed some of my birds, he just wants to survive I would never hurt him or her, i don't understand some folks, how could u not help him, screw the law!


I wouldn't worry too much about it, you won't go to jail for trying to help the bird. In high school coming out of weight training there between the buildings was a peregrine falcon. It had leather strap on its leg. A buddy kept it for a few days. He got Fish and Game involved and it got back to the owner with no problems. I picked up a red tail hawk on the side of the road about six years ago. I had it a few days. I ended up bringing it to a vet that was associated with a rescue. 

I would call a rehabber from one of those listed in the thread or the falconry folks they should be able to give you some direction. I don't know much about the law. It only becomes a felon if they prove that you are trying to sell the bird or part of it. 

Bottom line is you are trying to help the bird, don't keep it, if you can't reach anyone call Department of Fish and Game, Tell them exactly what happened if they arrest you I am sorry... but I don’t think they will.


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

"It only becomes a felon if they prove that you are trying to sell the bird or part of it."

Sorry, but not true. I extensively researched these laws, read them directly, and spoke with numerous federal officials. You are not even allowed to *posses* a raptor *feather*. Intent and selling/keeping do not matter. You are welcome to reat the act yourself, it says it quite clearly. It is spelled out with NO loopholes, you know the government! haha


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## Guest (Nov 4, 2010)

Flapdoodle said:


> I wouldn't worry too much about it, you won't go to jail for trying to help the bird. In high school coming out of weight training there between the buildings was a peregrine falcon. It had leather strap on its leg. A buddy kept it for a few days. He got Fish and Game involved and it got back to the owner with no problems. I picked up a red tail hawk on the side of the road about six years ago. I had it a few days. I ended up bringing it to a vet that was associated with a rescue.
> 
> I would call a rehabber from one of those listed in the thread or the falconry folks they should be able to give you some direction. I don't know much about the law. It only becomes a felon if they prove that you are trying to sell the bird or part of it.
> 
> Bottom line is you are trying to help the bird, don't keep it, if you can't reach anyone call Department of Fish and Game, Tell them exactly what happened if they arrest you I am sorry... but I don’t think they will.


that was my point they wont arrest one for trying to help , otherwise no one would be helping BOPs at all and all the wounded ones would just end up dying and there would be no need for rator rehabs at all lol


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

The precise language in the MBTA states:
“Unless and except as permitted by regulations made as hereinafter provided, it shall be unlawful at any time, by any means or in any manner, to pursue, hunt, take, capture, kill, attempt to take, capture, or kill, possess, offer for sale, sell, offer to barter, barter, offer to purchase, purchase, deliver for shipment, ship, export, import, cause to be shipped, exported, or imported, deliver for transportation, transport or cause to be transported, carry or cause to be carried, or receive for shipment, transportation, carriage, or export, any migratory bird, any part, nest, or egg of any such bird, or any product, whether or not manufactured, which consists, or is composed in whole or in part, of any such bird or any part, nest or egg.”

http://www.gpnc.org/raptors1.htm


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

Haha isnt that crazy!???!?


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## Guest (Nov 4, 2010)

arherp said:


> The precise language in the MBTA states:
> “Unless and except as permitted by regulations made as hereinafter provided, it shall be unlawful at any time, by any means or in any manner, to pursue, hunt, take, capture, kill, attempt to take, capture, or kill, possess, offer for sale, sell, offer to barter, barter, offer to purchase, purchase, deliver for shipment, ship, export, import, cause to be shipped, exported, or imported, deliver for transportation, transport or cause to be transported, carry or cause to be carried, or receive for shipment, transportation, carriage, or export, any migratory bird, any part, nest, or egg of any such bird, or any product, whether or not manufactured, which consists, or is composed in whole or in part, of any such bird or any part, nest or egg.”
> 
> http://www.gpnc.org/raptors1.htm


if this was true then there would be no need for any raptor rehab at all in my opinion .


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

"Unless and except as permitted by regulations made as hereinafter provided"

That there includes raptor rehabs. 

See, that is the way the law is. They usually wont get you for delivering birds to the rehabbers, and the rehabbers are always thankful and take in the birds without question. But they *can* get you if they *want* to. Uncle sam likes to cover his butt for all possible scenarios aswell. It is just one of those "understood" things.


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

BTW, that _is_ true. Direct quote of our nations law.


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## Pip Logan (Oct 6, 2009)

So true!!!!!!!!


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## Noisy_minor (Jun 20, 2008)

The reason for the laws sounding so strict is because of all the loopholes people find and take advantage of. the laws are in place to prevent people poaching animals from the wild for trade. they will not put you in jail for helping an injured / lost animal, hell people get away with murder i really doubt the raptor police are going to come marching down and say hey look this is a falcon feather you get 10 years.


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

NM, they do. As I stated previously it happened to my friend. 15 years I think he is serving? 
Simply for possesing a red tail. They patrol the daylights out of it. I know they frequently monitor Backyardchickens.com, I am not sure about this site though.


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## Guest (Nov 4, 2010)

arherp said:


> NM, they do. As I stated previously it happened to my friend. 15 years I think he is serving?
> Simply for possesing a red tail. They patrol the daylights out of it. I know they frequently monitor Backyardchickens.com, I am not sure about this site though.


the only peoples that been prosocuted were those ones that were killing BOP over in cali


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

That is not true. Hundreds of people are prosecuted for simply having raptors in a cage or aviary at their house each year.


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## Guest (Nov 4, 2010)

arherp said:


> That is not true. Hundreds of people are prosecuted for simply having raptors in a cage or aviary at their house each year.


well then they shouldnt bee keeping them in cages should they


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

I said cage or aviary. The enclosure can be 2X2X2, or it can be 20X40X12.... doesnt matter the least bit in the eyes of Uncle Sam.


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## Guest (Nov 4, 2010)

well the keeping of BOp's is wrong but the helping of them is ok in my opinion


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

I think both keeping and helping is fine, as long as you know what you are doing. 
Uncle sam doesn't think the same way, so the point of all of these posts of mine is to just let you guys know that uncle sam is watching, so restrict what you say and know your laws.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

*Let's All Get Our Facts Straight*

Folks,

It IS illegal to keep a protected species of wild bird or animal without a permit. It is NOT illegal to help one. The wording of the federal law was changed some years ago to allow for "Good Samaritan" rescues which allows any member of the public to assist a sick, injured, or orphaned bird or animal with no penalties. The requirement IS, however, to get said bird or animal to a permitted facility within 72 hours. 

Let's just be sure here that we're all on the same page and not going "boinking" off in different directions. 

The LAW is clear on this Good Samaritan rescue .. I can go find you chapter and verse if you want .. 

Terry


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## Knoc (Jul 10, 2010)

Here in Minnesota its illegal. I dont know if they changed it in the last year or so, but even if you find a hurt one you are suppose to bring it in or call a wildlife manager. My dad works at a power plant and Peregrines hang out there ALOT and he has had to bring hurt ones in a few times but most the time they call.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

TAWhatley said:


> Folks,
> 
> It IS illegal to keep a protected species of wild bird or animal without a permit. It is NOT illegal to help one. The wording of the federal law was changed some years ago to allow for "Good Samaritan" rescues which allows any member of the public to assist a sick, injured, or orphaned bird or animal with no penalties. The requirement IS, however, to get said bird or animal to a permitted facility within 72 hours.
> 
> ...



Thanks Terry. That's very enlightening. I think it's great that he is helping the bird.


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## pattersonk2002 (Jun 1, 2008)

*Wow*

I am not sure but have a good idea on who was more hell bent on proving there point. This has been very interesting and was for the most part an informitive and cicil thread. 
I will say, I think the bird looks to be in a flyable state and you can get him/her to eat a good meal I would just let her go. On the other hand, She has already eaten once and if you feed her twice you may have a friend that see's a daily meal, you just might want to take her in and let the pros do the release. >Kevin


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

Knoc, this is not a state issue. This is federal, it applies to ALL AMERICANS equally. I know it sucks, I would love to be able to hop a border and go from illegal > legal, haha!

TAW, that is great that they finally changed the law! I _would_ like to the the chapter, actually aswell though.


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## onestop2050 (May 7, 2009)

I think I am going to give him a good meal and let him go free he looks and is acting better that the day I found him he seems to be well rested and has a full belly, I don't want to take a chance with the law or even as some mentioned that he might be put down for what I don't know, so I will release him tomorrow or Saturday, I checked him up and down and he is healthy.


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

Since he is fine and apparently capable of flight, I doubt he would be put down. 
I imagine he is just wiped from being in the coop all that time, he should be fine. 
Good luck in his release!


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

That hawk is probably just exhausted and thirsty. After you release it the hawk might return so it is time to better protect your loft.


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## onestop2050 (May 7, 2009)

That guy has a serious death grip, I could only describe it as some vise grips on your hands, I really enjoyed him the last couple of days, I just want to see him fly free and ride the skies like he is supposed to, I can see that it costs alot to keep these guys fed, this guy eats like crazy but he is so cool, do you guys think he will come back?


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

The experience was so traumatizing (sp?) for him that he may not want to have anything to do with your coop.. On the other hand, he has also found himself a food source. Just depends on that particular individual. If he is hungry enough, he will probably come back. Just keep a tight coop.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If they get lucky, they come back. He'll be back for sure.


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## onestop2050 (May 7, 2009)

Well I guess i am going to have to tighten up my security, do u think I could put something on him to know if it's him or not like a mark of sorts, because I have seen him before just don't know if it was him.


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

You could put a brightly colored cable tie on his leg. I would cut off the excess so as to not hinder him in his walking, etc though. I have not researched the legalities in marking a Migratory Bird Act covered bird, so do that at your own disgretion


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## Pip Logan (Oct 6, 2009)

Round two lol?


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

You can't tag that bird if that is what you are thinking. If the migratory act is that strict, they certainly won't allow unlicensed person doing it. Just a thought.


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## NewHopePoultry (Feb 7, 2010)

It is a coopers hawk and it appears to be a trained one at that. 
Your best bet is to call a rescue of some sort or even the zoo.
You can try to see if you can find a local falconer. 
Im in Missouri (north of St. Louis) and can maybe help (I have a degree in wildlife conservation)


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

Marebear, all raptors are protected. A coopers hawk is a raptor. 

Pip Logan, LOL


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

He's right. Raptors are protected. I wouldn't worry about it though. He'll either get it to someone who can help, or he'll release it himself. I really don't think it is something to get all excited about. He's just helping the bird.


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## Guest (Nov 6, 2010)

Jay3 said:


> He's right. Raptors are protected. I wouldn't worry about it though. He'll either get it to someone who can help, or he'll release it himself. I really don't think it is something to get all excited about. He's just helping the bird.


oh lordy ,cant help a bird if you cant touch it


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

arherp said:


> TAW, that is great that they finally changed the law! I _would_ like to the the chapter, actually aswell though.


Tomorrow or weekend .. I'll post it. Trust me .. it's FACT!

Terrry


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

onestop2050 said:


> Well I guess i am going to have to tighten up my security, do u think I could put something on him to know if it's him or not like a mark of sorts, because I have seen him before just don't know if it was him.



I wouldn't put anything on him. What difference would it make anyway? A hawk is a hawk. You'll see them around, and this one will be one of them. Of that you can be fairly certain.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

onestop2050 said:


> That guy has a serious death grip, I could only describe it as some vise grips on your hands, I really enjoyed him the last couple of days, I just want to see him fly free and ride the skies like he is supposed to, I can see that it costs alot to keep these guys fed, this guy eats like crazy but he is so cool, do you guys think he will come back?


Someday I am going to have a pet raptor. Since I was a kid I have been interested in all birds, but have always had a special interest in raptors. Cool thing you did here. I hope I never have the same experience. I don't know that I would have been as noble as you if I had a raptor inside my loft eating my birds. I would like to think I would, be but really doubt it.


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

TAWhatley said:


> Tomorrow or weekend .. I'll post it. Trust me .. it's FACT!
> 
> Terrry



I'm not doubting you!


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## Guest (Nov 6, 2010)

http://theraptortrust.org/the-birds/injured/law/
Wild Birds and the Law
The Birds > What to do for an Injured Bird > The Law

All wild birds, with the exception of exotics (birds, usually non-native species, legally sold as pets), are protected by state and federal law. It is illegal to harm them in any way. (Game birds may be taken according to state hunting laws.) It is also illegal to keep wild birds as pets or to sell them, or their parts, including feathers. Furthermore, the law states that they cannot be held in captivity without authorization from both state and federal wildlife agencies. Obviously, the laws were enacted to protect wild birds from being killed, harmed or exploited in any way. They were never intended to preclude or discourage the public from helping a bird in need.


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

Just because they were never intended to do something does not mean that they don't do it. ie.. There are side effects of laws... the feds didnt want to hinder the helping of animals, but they most definately did.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

arherp said:


> Just because they were never intended to do something does not mean that they don't do it. ie.. There are side effects of laws... the feds didnt want to hinder the helping of animals, but they most definately did.


Lets get real here! I really don't think your friend is in jail for *JUST* possessing a raptor. You yourself said "I think the feds were investigating "something else" when they found him with the bird". I think maybe he's in jail for that "something else", and having the bird made it a little worse? PLUS, he had the bird for 7 years....clearly, he had no intent to take it to a rehab center. 
This is getting ALL blown out of proportion!
If you find an INJURED or SICK wild bird or raptor or animal, you are allowed to secure it (for safety) and get it to a Licensed Facility asap


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

LokotaLoft said:


> http://theraptortrust.org/the-birds/injured/law/
> Wild Birds and the Law
> The Birds > What to do for an Injured Bird > The Law
> 
> All wild birds, with the exception of exotics (birds, usually non-native species, legally sold as pets), are protected by state and federal law. It is illegal to harm them in any way. (Game birds may be taken according to state hunting laws.) It is also illegal to keep wild birds as pets or to sell them, or their parts, including feathers. Furthermore, the law states that they cannot be held in captivity without authorization from both state and federal wildlife agencies. Obviously, the laws were enacted to protect wild birds from being killed, harmed or exploited in any way. They were never intended to preclude or discourage the public from helping a bird in need.


That is the idea behind the law, to protect birds. The problem is there is no real bite to it. At most it ends being a misdemeanor if the law is broken. 

Examples: Florida PGA golfer intentionally killed a red tail sentenced to community service and a couple hundred dollar fine. Then the guy in Oregon who killed a couple of peregrine falcons that were raised in captivity, no jail time and a couple thousand dollar fine. Even the example you brought up down in so cal, “operation high roller”. 14 month undercover operation, audio and video evidence, estimated over 2,000 coopers, redtails, and even peregrines killed. No jail time, no felony, just fines. 

As far as keeping as a pet. Here in California I can get a falconers license under an apprenticeship for a year. It would be legal under the direction of a more experienced falconer to trap a kestrel. After I prove I can care for it the next year you can get a larger raptor. I can’t keep it as a "pet" but if I practice falconry I can. It is a huge commitment. I looked into pretty heavy when I was younger, before I got into pigeons.


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

Msfreebird said:


> Lets get real here! I really don't think your friend is in jail for *JUST* possessing a raptor. You yourself said "I think the feds were investigating "something else" when they found him with the bird". I think maybe he's in jail for that "something else", and having the bird made it a little worse? PLUS, he had the bird for 7 years....clearly, he had no intent to take it to a rehab center.
> This is getting ALL blown out of proportion!
> If you find an INJURED or SICK wild bird or raptor or animal, you are allowed to secure it (for safety) and get it to a Licensed Facility asap



The "something else" that they were investigating was never found or taken to court. Of course it was a "pet". You must have just skimmed through this thread, because this post of yours is kind of "patchy". The raptor rehab would have euthanized it, so he kept it and treated it himself. It got along fine in the aviary. 


"If you find an INJURED or SICK wild bird or raptor or animal, you are allowed to secure it (for safety) and get it to a Licensed Facility asap"

I agree 100%. If you read this thread, you will find that your issues were brought up a long time ago & resolved.


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

btw what's happening with the hawk?
did you release him?
if you want you can take a little acrylic blue or green paint and put a smudge of it on his forehead if you dare.
of course it will molt off at some point but you will be able to identify him for a little while.
i wouldn't band him, he relies to heavily on those feet for survival, wouldn't want him to get caught on anything and injure himself


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

arherp said:


> The "something else" that they were investigating was never found or taken to court. Of course it was a "pet". You must have just skimmed through this thread, because this post of yours is kind of "patchy". The raptor rehab would have euthanized it, so he kept it and treated it himself. It got along fine in the aviary.
> 
> 
> "If you find an INJURED or SICK wild bird or raptor or animal, you are allowed to secure it (for safety) and get it to a Licensed Facility asap"
> ...


Nevermind


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

*Title 50 CFR - Part 21.31*

Here is the actual text from the code of federal regulations which states that it is permissible for a non-permitted person to temporarily possess a sick, injured, or orphaned migratory bird for purposes of getting the bird to a permitted person or facility.

_§ 21.31 Rehabilitation permits.
(a) What is the permit requirement? Except as provided in §21.12, a rehabilitation permit is required to take, temporarily possess, or transport any migratory bird for rehabilitation purposes. However, any person who finds a sick, injured, or orphaned migratory bird may, without a permit, take possession of the bird in order to immediately transport it to a permitted rehabilitator.
_

Here is a link to the entire Title 50 CFR: Title 50 - CFR

Terry


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

Do you know where the three-day thing is? That is absolutley great that was written in to law. I guess it is not just "understood" any more! It doesn't seem that the new law addresses maintaining the bird on your own for a couple days, or anything like that, but it is atleast a start.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

arherp said:


> Do you know where the three-day thing is? That is absolutley great that was written in to law. I guess it is not just "understood" any more! It doesn't seem that the new law addresses maintaining the bird on your own for a couple days, or anything like that, but it is atleast a start.


Read the article. She posted the link to the whole thing.


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## onestop2050 (May 7, 2009)

hello folks,i could not release the bird saturday cause i was busy all day,but today i released him,i put some yellow paint on his chest i dint want to put something on his foot and worry about him getting tangled up somewhere,at first he did not move but a couple of minutes later he was gone,he dint even look back,i made sure to feed him real good before he left,i was sad and happy at the same time,maybe he will come back and visit me and not my birds.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

onestop2050 said:


> hello folks,i could not release the bird saturday cause i was busy all day,but today i released him,i put some yellow paint on his chest i dint want to put something on his foot and worry about him getting tangled up somewhere,at first he did not move but a couple of minutes later he was gone,he dint even look back,i made sure to feed him real good before he left,i was sad and happy at the same time,*maybe he will come back and visit me and not my birds.*


*
*


Yea sure! LOL.


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