# Young pigeon, raspy, rapid breathing, otherwise OK



## dananarama (Sep 25, 2012)

Hi,

I know nothing about pigeons; I am completely new to this. I don't think this is an emergency, but I thought this would be the best topic to post in. I brought home nine homing pigeons earlier this month. Eight of the group were out of the same loft and appear to be around the same age. The ninth was a gift from one of the breeder's different lofts. It's younger than the others. The breeder said the eight were ready to start flying as soon as they got used to their new surroundings. The young one looks very similar, but is noticeably smaller when you pick her (I think) up.

The young one has sounded snuffly since she got here. She doesn't seem to feel bad at all and is an enthusiastic eater. I got worried about the constant raspy breathing, though, as the nights are getting cooler outside. I've got her indoors now in a quiet room in an enclosure with a heating pad available.

Any insight or advice would be appreciated. I have no idea whether I should be worried or not. Just trying to err on the side of caution. If a video clip of her rattly breathing would help I can make one. I'm uploading pics of all the birds to this album. Smidgen the pigeon is the one with the bald spot from being picked on.

Thanks,


Dan


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I think you should treat her and all of them for canker. Do you have canker medication?


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Sounds like some sort of respritory issue, Did you see the loft it came from? What were the conditions like?Good job isolating it, I would keep it seperate from the other 8 birds until you are certain what the problem is.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Rattly breathing isn't good -- but it could be a number of things. Treating for canker is definitely a good idea. Respiratory infections can get severe really quickly -- most of them respond well to doxycycline. Some respiratory problems are viral, and antibiotics won't work on those ... but I'd keep her quarantined and on heat, and watch her closely.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

I agree, Doxycycline seems effective, that can be used with most canker treatments as far as I know, Also remove any calcium or grits if you treat with doxy.


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## dananarama (Sep 25, 2012)

Thanks very much for all the rapid responses. I've read that the dosage of doxycycline is 10-50mg per bird. Can someone recommend a more exact dose in this range? I can weigh her; just let me know.

I'm looking on this page at the _DAC Doxycycline 100 gram package_. Please let me know if there's something else I should get.

I found the thread on administering liquid meds here. Thanks for that. Let me know if there is anything you would add to that for a complete stranger to birds.

I did want to mention that she's been in with the others for three weeks now, and none of the others show any signs of ill-health or problems with breathing. Regarding the conditions of the loft she came from, I really have no frame of reference. You can see it in the pics here and here. I'll say the man cared a great deal about his birds and it seemed he payed a lot of attention to them.

In the meantime she seems to be doing fine. Her breathing is still all gunked up but she continues to be bright-eyed and alert and is eating and drinking well.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

The formularies are often listed in mg per kilogram of weight, and I believe that is what you are looking at (that can be really deceptive, if you're not familiar with reading them.)

The standard doxycycline dose for most adult birds is in somewhere in the 7.5 to 9 mg per day range. 

I, personally, find pills easier to deal with than liquids for individual dosing ... 

Jedd's has an inexpensive option here

http://www.jedds.com/-strse-482/DOXYBIRD-TABS-(Medpet)/Detail.bok

There's also the option of using Doxycycline with Tylosin added -- 

http://www.vitakingproducts.com/respiratory1.htm

Problem is, we don't know what your bird has, so this is guesswork. I'd also highly suggest treating for canker, since that can cause respiratory problems/snuffly breathing.

Spartrix is a canker product I swear by -- it's in pill form, and easy to use. 

How are her droppings? Have you looked down her beak? If not, do so -- take a flashlight and shine it down ... you'd be looking for any white or yellow matter in the beak or throat. 

You have some gorgeous birds there!


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

The more information you can give, the better -- 

Regarding the others -- it isn't unusual for one bird to go down with something and for others to remain visibly healthy ... this can happen if the bird's system is taxed for some reason (transport, stress, molting, laying, etc.) -- but if you have a sick bird, it is necessary to clean the loft/cages very, very thoroughly after removing the sick one, and watch carefully for any signs of the infection spreading to the others. 

Sometimes it is necessary to treat the whole bunch if something is spreading -- (that's where the water or food-dosed meds can be a lot easier to deal with -- but you have less control over the dosing that way, because it is dependent on how much each bird eats or drinks.) 

Keep us updated!


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

minimonkey, what is the drug in spartrix? I use trichosole pills which are metradonazole (sp)


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Spartrix is carnidazole -- it's pretty similar to metronidazole. Both are very effective against canker.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Cool, Thanks!


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## dananarama (Sep 25, 2012)

Hi,

I was expecting to find dosage recommendations listed per-weight, but all I found (for instance here and here) were dosages listed 'per-bird'. I'll just plan on administering 7.5mg in this case.

I made a spreadsheet here that lists out the actual cost of doxy from a few websites, including the ones you mentioned. I've got some on order now. Thanks a lot for your help with this. I'll probably add a sheet to the doc linked above for mixing the dose whenever the medicine arrives.

I'll try to get her weight and take a peak down her beak this evening. Her droppings look just like all the others' as far as I can tell.

Thanks again for all the help.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Good luck -- I hope she recovers quickly! Keep us updated please.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

As far as canker treatment, I have had much better results with Metronidazole than with Spartrix. Also, the recommendation that comes with the Spartrix will say to treat for 1 day. You really should treat for 5 to 7 days. But, for me at least, Metronidazole has been more effective. Also you can buy Fish Zole which is also Metronidazole. Just make sure it doesn't have another drug in it.


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## dananarama (Sep 25, 2012)

She weighed 6.8oz / 193g. I took a picture and video of her and am uploading them here. You can't see much in them, but maybe someone can see something they recognize.

I saw no white or yellow stuff. There was plenty of what looked like saliva in the back of the throat, around the small opening that I assume goes to the nostrils. Not sure if that's what is causing the snuffly sound. My feeling is that the sound is coming from between that opening and the nostril openings somewhere, but I'm not sure.

Thanks again for all your help.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I would treat him for canker. Then I would also treat all of them.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Hmm.... one usually doesn't see saliva -- particularly not "plenty" of it -- in the beak, so I'm thinking that is not what you saw. It's probably a thin mucus.

Yes, the opening is the airway -- and it shouldn't be surrounded by fluid normally. 

Hopefully the cycline treatment will clear up whatever is causing the problem. If it is an allergy or a viral cause, then it may just be a matter of supportive care ... but I'm thinking a respiratory infection is a real possibility. 

Interesting about the experiences with the Spartrix, Jay -- the recommendations on my most recent package of it are three days of treatment for a cure, 1 day for prevention. (I believe it used to recommend 1 day, and 1 more dose 10 days later, or something like that.) 

I've used metronidazole as well, and I've found both very effective -- though I've never had to treat canker that had gotten very severe.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

I just watched the video, and it was extremely helpful. She's opening her beak to breathe -- that is DEFINITELY not good -- and the rattling sounds are pretty pronounced. Personally, I'd get her on antibiotics sooner rather than later. 

Do you have any on hand? If so, what kind?

It's hard to tell from the photo and the video, but I also saw something that looked very canker-ish deep in the throat, and also in the beak itself (on her right side, near the front) in the still photo. That could also be mucus -- but treating for canker is an excellent start -- and I'd try to get her on some kind of antibiotic that is broad spectrum enough to get respiratory problems. 

Definitely keep her isolated from the others, and be sure you wash your hands (and anything that you touch after touching her) before going around your other birds. 

I change clothes completely before and after handling a sick bird, because some things can spread very, very easily. 

Thanks so much for uploading the video -- that was a huge help.


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## dananarama (Sep 25, 2012)

Just checking in here; sorry for the long delay. She's still the same to a little improved. The doxy I ordered from Jedd's never arrived. Come to find out they were out and only called and left a message on voicemail that is seldom checked. Doxy is finally en route. Hopefully I'll have more news soon.

The other birds are flourishing. No signs of ill-health at all.


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## dananarama (Sep 25, 2012)

Smidgen did not make it. I don't know when/if I'll be writing more about it. I thank you all for your help.

Dan


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

I am so sorry for your loss, Dan. 

Keep a close eye on the others, and medicate if there is any sign of trouble in them! Doxy is a good thing to have on hand when you have pigeons.


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## Pollo70 (Jan 3, 2012)

Sounds like a respritory issue, raspee breathing and beak open are signs of respritory illness.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I'm really sorry your bird didn't make it. Doxy is a good medication to have on hand [although it can cause vomiting] and so is a canker treatment. There are different strains of canker and not each one responds to all strains. Often a combination of canker medications are necessary. Here in Oregon, it's been a decade or more since I've had good result with spartrix. Here, metronidazole still works the best.
Baytri or one of the medications in the same drug family is also good to have on hand. I buy Salmonella Tab, by Pantex, from Global Pigeon Supply. 100 pills are $22.00. Global also has a liquid version, also by Pantrx, called Parastop. I keep both on hand.
When birds are moved to a new loft, it stresses them and stress can bring on an outbreak of any illness or parasite the bird's immune system may have been coping with, keeping in check. 
Many folks and vets too think that if you can't see yellow crusty things in a pigeon's mouth or throat, that the pigeon doesn't have canker. That isn't correct, a pigeon can have an internal infection and I have noticed that the ones that do, often have a lot of saliva in their mouth.
Most pigeons have canker in their system and so canker is most often the one to become full blown making the pigeon very ill. Often, the pigeon will have a bacterial infection as well and so treating for bacteria and canker is a good idea.
When you notice raspy breathing or a pigeon acting off, do bring it inside and put it on heating pad set on the low setting. Inside you can monitor the poop, hand feed and medicate. Sick pigeons should always be individually medicated.By doing these things, you may not loose any more birds.
I'm telling you this because you said you don't know anything about pigeons and when you first started this thread, I was sick and didn't keep up on your thread.
Again...I'm really sorry.


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