# Urgent help required!!!



## _Syed (Aug 3, 2019)

Hi all,I'm new to dis forum so pls bear wit me.
I found a pigeon standing in the dark in front of my house,his left eye was completely closed by som sort of a hard yellow substance and he wasn't moving wen I got near him.He also had som nervous disorder I guess as he was moving his head in an unusual manner and couldn't peck grains too. He always missed the target but would try hard to peck it.I picked him up,kept him in a closed room and cleaned his eye first with water and removed tat substance after one hour of struggle. To start with,I started giving him water(50 ml) mixed with a pinch of tetracycline and started to put eye drops regularly. As he was nt able to eat,I started force feeding him to keep him alive. Eventually he showed som progress and I stopped giving the medicated water as I thought he was becomming well. That was a blunder! he again started falling sick miserably.dis tym his nose became watery,he had breathing problems and the infected eye was not infected anymore but the area around it started swelling to the point tat it closed the eye. I did some googling and assumed tat it could be chlamydia so I started treating him with doxycycline in his water(100mg/250ml) but would give him only 1ml of the medicated water thrice bcox if i kept the water bowl,he would drink lots of water due to inflammation wch would cause extremely watery poops. So out of fear of diarrhoea, I would not give him enough water. The results were good and the swelling got reduced gradually until one day I found out tat he has developed canker and it was visible in his mouth near the throat. I did not provide him with any medication for canker as I was already keeping him on meds for chlamydia. Today is the 4th day since I found out about canker. I do not know if its a positive sign tat since then,the canker has neither increased nor reduced. But today I saw that the area around the same eye has again started to swell.He has difficulty in breathing while I feed him.He opens his mouth to breathe and what I feed is sticky,neither liquid nor solid,I make it a kind of paste and feed him.It blocks his throat I guess due to the stickiness and so he dsnt like to have it. But I do not know of anythng other than tat to feed him.Now he is able to peck 70% of the grains but due to canker in his throat,the grains don't pass through.So I've to still hand feed him.What am I supposed to do now? Any suggestions of what else can I feed him wch is semi-solid or kind of paste bt nt so sticky?Also , am I giving him vry less medicated water? Should I increase it? The thing is,wen I keep the bowl and wen he drinks from the bowl,som white substance comes out from either his mouth or nose wch contaminates the medicated water.Don't knw wat tat is. Thats another reason why Im nt keeping the bowl. Can I treat him for canker too simultaneously? If yes,then wat s d dosage of metro I shud b giving him? and can I mix both the medicines in the same water? or shud I wait until this treatment gets over? its been 7 days since I started giving him doxy. Or what else should I do? He also constantly pecks my feet, it sort of tickles.Is tat normal or wat is he tryng to convey?Pls help me as thre r no avian vets available here. Im sry for such a long post, I wanted it to be in detail coz I need help asap so made sure no point is left out. Thanks it advance!


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

You will need to treat him for canker asap. It won't clear up by itself. Can you get hold of metronidazole? He will need 50 mg once daily for 7-10 days, sometimes longer. Meds in the water is no good, you have no control over his intake. The metro comes in tablet form, you can just split it up into the correct size and put this straight in his throat for him to swallow. 

Also add apple cider vinegar to his drinking water (5ml to 1l of water) to prevent yeast infection. Probiotics for pigeons will also do him good.

In the meantime, best to forcefeed him will be defrosted peas. Soak in warm water till soft and feed to him. He will need at least 50 peas 3 times daily. Put him on your lap (facing to the right if you are righthanded). Reach with your left hand over his body and head and open the beak with those fingers. Have a pea ready in your right hand and put deep inside the beak over the tongue. Give him time to swallow and proceed with the next one. If he spits it out, you are not putting it in deep enough.

I don't know if you can use both meds at the same time. I think the canker is the more serious disease, so first treat for that. Can you post a photo of him?


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

He is probably hungry, that's why he is pecking at your feet.


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## _Syed (Aug 3, 2019)

Thank yu for yur rply!
Yeah flagyl is handy! But i need to knw if i can use both meds at d same tym. Coz d first disease he got was chlamydia(assuming it s chlamydia). He s even responding to d medications well and it s supposed to be a 6 wk treatment.Canker came after, so i don't want to stop his meds for chlamydia while treating for canker. Another notable point is tat, he s active wen im around, i go in only for feeding.He runs to me and keeps on tickling my feet. So it s not tat he s vry dull and lethargic. Yeah he puffs up wen alone and wen sleepy. As for peas, he has som respiratory problems and so sumtyms breathes through his beak open. Also he has canker near his throat. Will he be able to swallow? coz i dont want him to choke. Last tym, even wheat grain couldnt make it through. Can i soak bread in water and give it to him?


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

I really don't know if you can use both meds. I've used metro and amoxycillin combined before, but I've never used doxycycline. I will send a pm to Jay3 (one of our members) and then wait for an answer and let you know.

He probably had canker when you got him. I think by the time they develop the canker lesions in the mouth, the disease is very advanced. This will definetly kill him before you are finished with the doxycycline treatment. He won't last 6 weeks.

Plse don't feed him bread, it has no nutritional value and he won't benefit from it. If you think a whole pea is too large, split it in half and feed to him. Put down very small seeds, he might be able to eat those.

Also, try and keep him warm especially at night. A hotwater bottle covered with a soft blanket will do.

If I had this bird, I would really first try to get rid of the canker. It's only going to get worst. It will progress to the point that you won't be able to feed him at all and he might start having serious breathing issues if the breathing hole is covered by the lesions.


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## _Syed (Aug 3, 2019)

Alryt then! Ill start giving him flagyl once yu consult yur frnd and gimme a green signal. Ill try giving him peas too. Thank yu so much for yur help. Ill keep yu updated!


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Haven't received an answer yet. No info on the internet either. But like I said, first get rid of the canker and then sort out the other problems. If the canker does not get treated, it will only become worse.


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## _Syed (Aug 3, 2019)

Sure! I'll treat him for canker too simultaneously! Will let you know if any help is required! Thanks once again!

Just to let you know, I'm giving him garlic water too. Will that help for canker? I heard it might prevent canker , what about curing it? Any idea?


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## beachwood45789 (Jul 15, 2014)

Hi Syed, send me your e-mail address and i will send you some info on medications i cant post it here cause it is doc. file you can send me your e-mail in a private message if you want. and i dont think you can use doxie with flaygyl together, i know humans dont mix the 2 drugs Beachwood


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

I've send a message to the Facebook group "Pigeon Angels" and was told he will be fine on both meds. Just add apple cider vinegar (5 ml to 1 l water) to his drinking water to prevent a yeast infection. He will also benefit from pigeon probiotics, if you can get hold of that.

Let us know how he is doing.


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## _Syed (Aug 3, 2019)

Thank you !

Update! 

Chlamydia:
His eye seems to be fine. Cold seems to be fine. I dont hear any wheezing sound now. Has little bit of respiratory problem still. Otherwise all good.

Canker:
Could see canker near his throat still. I dont know if the tablet is working or not. I guess it is, but I'm not able to see any distinct change. May be should wait for some more days. Overall he's active and playful.

Had a few questions:
For how long should i continue flagyl? 
How will I know that he is getting cured of canker? Will it start disappearing or lumps of those lesions will fall off or something like that?
He bites the hell out of me. Always! Its not like for food. Its just always! before and after eating too. Hope he's just being playful.
Also, is ACV really important to add in his water or it's okay even if i dont?


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Are you giving him the 50 mg of metro once daily? How long has he been on treatment for canker now? Continue with that until all the canker is gone. Usually one sees an improvement within 3 days, sometimes it takes longer. The acv is quite important. It helps restore the good gut bacteria and prevent a yeast infection. Yeast also shows up as white dots in the back of the throat.

Biting your hands is a good sign, he is fearfull of your hands. A really sick pigeon will act tamè.


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## Ladygrey (Dec 10, 2016)

From your first post description, it sounds like a pox lesion. 

Not to say he doesn’t have canker also as that can flare up if they are stressed or have a disease like pox, which is yellow lesions mainly on the head. There is no cure except supportive care. It will run its course and the lesions should improve if he is fed well and has fresh clean water.. bottled maybe best depending on where you live.


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## _Syed (Aug 3, 2019)

Yeah I’ve been giving him daily. For d past 6 days I guess. And now it seems I’ve been overdosing him,I don’t know. I could see that he has some problems with his sight. I read it somewhere that overdosage of metronidazole can cause blurred vision and blindness too. I feel he has blurred vision.what do I do now? Continue with the medicine? 
He is still active and bites but lesser than before.


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## _Syed (Aug 3, 2019)

Lesions are inside his mouth, not above his head.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Can you post a photo of him and try to post one of the inside of his beak. Overdosing on metronidazole will cause neurological problems. Maybe it is because you are using both meds?


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## _Syed (Aug 3, 2019)

Yes you are right! He has developed neurological problems😣. He had it when I first picked him up and now due to my mistake, he is getting it again.what should I do now? Reduce the dosage or stop the tablet altogether. I really don’t want to stop it now.please suggest me something!


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## _Syed (Aug 3, 2019)

These are a few attachments that show it’s tilted head due to some neurological problem and also canker in its mouth.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

That's really bad. Can't believe the meds aren't working. Are you giving him only the flagyl or are you still treating for chlamydia as well? Can you get hold of Meditrich from Medpet? That's the product that I use for canker and it has never failed me.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Maybe it's not the meds that's causing the neurological problems. You did say he had it when you found him. Continue with the 50 mg once daily that's about the only thing you can do for now. Is he still drinking plenty of water?


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## _Syed (Aug 3, 2019)

beachwood45789 said:


> Hi, that bird will always be sick, put it out of it's misery. beachwood


Euthanise him? I’m sorry, that’s not even on my list!


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## _Syed (Aug 3, 2019)

Marina B said:


> Maybe it's not the meds that's causing the neurological problems. You did say he had it when you found him. Continue with the 50 mg once daily that's about the only thing you can do for now. Is he still drinking plenty of water?


Yeah but he was doing well until a couple of days back. He is not drinking plenty of water now. It has reduced but still little more than usual. And his lime green poops have changed to dark green too, I’ll continue with the medicine.will keep you updated!


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Just try your best with him. I can't believe you are able to get food into him. Lime green droppings are starvation droppings. What are you feeding him? Dark green droppings are ok for now, as long as they are bulky.

Euthanizing is always the easy way out for someone that does not have the dedication to save a pigeon. Thanks for not going for that option. You will know what is best for him. Sometimes one needs to combine 2 meds to get rid of the canker. Ronidazole is another option.

Let us know how he is doing.


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## _Syed (Aug 3, 2019)

I’m feeding him baby food. Making it semi solid so that it can pass through. I’m trying my best. Sure! Will keep you updated!


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## _Syed (Aug 3, 2019)

Just want to make mention of a few things. Should’ve done it earlier may be.
Firstly, I honestly don’t know what dosage I’m giving him because I’ve a flgyl 400.
Secondly,I powdered it since I can’t put it directly into his mouth and add a few droplets of water so that it can pass through. The dosage may either be less or more. 

Another doubt which I have. Can I use two anti biotics together? If yes,then what dosage of both meds should I give him and together or separate.please provide me with all the details.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Best for the flagyl will be to grind up the whole tablet, divide into 8 parts then you have 8 heaps of 50 mg. Mix this with small amount of food, and feed this first to him. Then you know he is getting the correct dosage. Then you can give more food.

What other antibiotics do you want to give?


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## _Syed (Aug 3, 2019)

Yeah I almost did the same except that I didn’t make 8 different heaps.just took a pinch everyday.thats why missed the correct dosage. This time I cut it into 8 pieces and powdered one piece from it, added few droplets of water and fed it directly with a spoon. As for mixing it in his food,he doesn’t eat fully so he might miss some of it. So I give him directly.

Now there is no need for any other antibiotic as it has started working by God’s grace. Will post a picture of it when it is cured completely. I’m planning to go with a 5 day course. Thanks for your support!


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Really beautiful bird! Hope he is better soon.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

You might have to treat for longer than 5 days. The metro does not dissolve well in water, so make double sure he gets the correct dosage. Hope he recovers soon. Let us know.


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## _Syed (Aug 3, 2019)

cwebster said:


> Really beautiful bird! Hope he is better soon.


Indeed he is! Hoping for the best!


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## _Syed (Aug 3, 2019)

Is it okay to treat him for than 5 days? Because it’s already 8th day today I guess.been 2 days since I started giving him the correct dosage.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

You will need to treat him until all the canker is gone. Usually there is an improvement within 3 days, but if you stop too soon then the canker will just return and it will be more difficult to get rid of it.


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## _Syed (Aug 3, 2019)

How will I know that he's fully cured of it? I cant do any tests. There isn't any such facility here.


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## Ladygrey (Dec 10, 2016)

When you start seeing the nodule get smaller is how you know.... Treat him for 10 days and open the beak and look again. 

Just an FYI: there are resistant strains of canker, one reason is people giving not enough or correct dosage of meds. If you want to cure this you need to start ordering online from pigeon supply all the meds that can cure canker and have it on hand.. when you need to use it.. do exactly as the instructions tell you. 


As far as euthanasia goes, it is an option for many who feel just as much affection for a bird, that option is still hard to come to, does not mean they are cruel or feel less because of it. It takes a strong person to be there with that if an animal needs it and step up for them. But it is an individuals decision and no one else’s.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Treat until all the canker in the throat is gone. The droppings of a healthy bird will be brown and firm with a white dot on top. Try to get hold of probiotics to start adding to her drinking water. Apple cider vinegar will also do her good. After antibiotic treatment the good gut bacteria needs to be restored and the above products will help. Can you see an improvement?


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## _Syed (Aug 3, 2019)

Yeah thankfully I could see a lot of difference. I’ll post a picture soon. Please suggest me some probiotics too that are common for all types of birds.


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## _Syed (Aug 3, 2019)

Ladygrey said:


> When you start seeing the nodule get smaller is how you know.... Treat him for 10 days and open the beak and look again.
> 
> Just an FYI: there are resistant strains of canker, one reason is people giving not enough or correct dosage of meds. If you want to cure this you need to start ordering online from pigeon supply all the meds that can cure canker and have it on hand.. when you need to use it.. do exactly as the instructions tell you.
> 
> ...


Isn’t flagyl enough to treat canker?


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

If the canker is getting smaller, then the flagyl is working. No need to use other antibiotics. Do you have a petshop nearby? Ask them for a good probiotic for pigeons and doves. Otherwise, you will need to order online.


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## _Syed (Aug 3, 2019)

Yeah I’ll check it out. I’m just worried if the bacteria would develop immunity against flagyl if I give it for too long.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

How is your pigeon doing?


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## _Syed (Aug 3, 2019)

Yeah he’s improving. I’ll post a pic when he is completely cured of canker.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Great! Glad to hear that!


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## Lokie (Feb 22, 2019)

Great news. I'm glad he's on the mend.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Looking at those pics of the canker on the top of his throat, makes me think that he didn't have Chlamydia. He has canker. And has it in his sinus. If on the top of his throat like that, it can go up into his sinus. That can make the eyes become as they were, and can make the nose and throat mucosy. I think his only problem was canker to begin with. 
How many mgs of the Flagyl are you giving one time daily? Flagyl is Metronidazole. Sometimes it can take even a couple of weeks or so to clear. But need to be giving enough in each dose. How is he doing now?
I'm glad Marina pushed you to treat the canker, or he would have died.


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## _Syed (Aug 3, 2019)

Hi all! So here's the update! 
Today is the 15th day of his treatment for canker with the correct dosage. Also I've been still treating him with doxy as it was a 42 day treatment and it's the 33rd day of it. The amount of canker we saw was just the tip of the iceberg, okay if not iceberg still there was a lot of canker behind it. He's slowly getting cured of it except a small lump. Opening of his food pipe is visible now and glad to say that nearly after two months, I gave him solid pigeon food ( grain mix) and he just missed it so much,could see from the way he started eating it greedily. 
Still did not give him ACV as it Should not be used with tetracyclines. Meanwhile just wanted to get some more information on acv as for how long can the treated water be used? just one day and should I prepare a new one or can be used for a couple of days? 

Also can I give him the treated water daily or alternate days or twice a week? and for how many days should I give him the treated water? 

If I give him ACV treated water is there any need for extra probiotics that need to be added?


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## _Syed (Aug 3, 2019)

The reason I went with chlamydia was that initially I couldn't see any canker lesions in his mouth so I thought it wasn't a canker case. Only after a week the canker lesions came up. When I started treating him with doxy, he did show improvement on a daily basis. That was the reason I took canker very lightly at first as I thought it was all part of chlamydia may be. But I was wrong. It was on Marina's insistence that I started the treatment though little late but still better late than never! 

I'm giving him approx. 50mg of flagyl.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

I'm really glad he is improving. Give him a fresh batch of acv water every day for like 5 days after antibiotic treatment. You are going to use so little acv, might as well mix a new batch every day. Even healthy birds will benefit from acv in the drinking water on a regular basis. If one gives them acv water 3 times a week, it helps to keep them healthy. So this should be an ongoing process.

Probiotics for pigeons will also do him good.


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## _Syed (Aug 3, 2019)

beachwood45789 said:


> Jay, don't tell me that it is ridiculous to put a bird of of his misery, i will tell you what is ridiculous and stupid is picking up street rats and taking them to your house and trying to cure them,and the people that pick these birds up don't know **** about how to take care of them, let the bird be and let nature take it's course giving him drugs for 10 to 40 days do you know what that does to his body, you are giving him drugs and you really dont even know what really is wrong with him people are just guessing what is wrong, with all those drugs you have given just destroys the flora in his gut all you are doing is prolonging it's misery. if you want to help birds why dont you volunteer at a animal shelter and maybe you will learn something about caring for birds.the only way to really know what is wrong with your pigeons is to send the droppings to a bird vet. or do what i did 20 years ago is buy a microscope and a book on pigeon diseases and learn for yourself. post a pic of the bird today let me see what it looks like now P.S IF YOU WANT A HEALTHY BIRD E-MAIL ME AND I WILL SEND YOU ONE


The only ridiculous thing here , I feel , is you. I’m sorry to say but it is because you always judge a book by its cover. Firstly, you said that he won’t survive. And now, you are judging me without knowing a thing. I don’t feel the urge to even give you a description of my experience with birds. As you said, leaving the birds to nature , yeah that’s what I do until a bird is at my doorstep breathing it’s last. If not save him, I’m always glad to provide him some warmth so that he can breathe his last,peacefully not worrying about being hunted by stray cats. 
Surely I’ll send you a pic of him soon.dont worry!


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## beachwood45789 (Jul 15, 2014)

Syed, and now you are judging me without knowing me, i wont lower myself to reply to your post just keep giving him drugs and he will be fine


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## navamanas (Mar 17, 2016)

Hey beachwood45789
We're supposed to be stewards. Helping in injured or sick animal is being a steward. Breeding animals that are overpopulated (like you do) is the exact opposite. All of my pigeons are/were injured or sickly "street" pigeons. Work on your biology: your loft pigeons are the same species as my street pigeons. A different species would be the Nicobar, or the Western Crowned. You can take a street pigeon and turn it into a beauty with more brains and personality than some flock that lives out their lives in a loft.

-syed, you're doing a great job. It's difficult to say what the outcome will be, but in my book there's nothing better than helping an injured animal. If you have an aviary vet some somewhere near you, they could give you better help than any of us amateurs trying to dispense medical advice.


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