# Breaking away



## preacher boy (Sep 22, 2010)

This will be my 3rd race in old birds this season. Did not race as young birds in 2011. I am about 45 miles from the main thrust of the other handlers and my birds always go into that city with their birds,and then they come home to my loft. As you know by the time they do that,I have lost precious time and am never in the running. I flew my birds with their birds on training flights hoping to avoid this. I keep them hungry before the race and I try to motovate them by their mates. But by their time getting home I believe that is what their doing..Is this in the breeding,or can you somehow train them to break away from the flock to get them out of this?? Thanks to all in advance..


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## akbird (Apr 29, 2010)

The best way I know of is to train them on a line from your race stations. Look on a map a draw a line from your first race station to your loft and train you birds on that line. I wouldn't train with the other flyers as they are on a different line than you and it sounds like your birdss are being pulled by them.


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## JRNY (Nov 17, 2009)

Do what akbird said. If you could mark on a map where the other lofts are. Find your brake point. Train from there.


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## High Flier (Jan 19, 2011)

When you first start training with the other guys, you already lost it. Your birds is use to flying like that already. To the city first then loft second. Next time, train by yourself first before training with the other guys. Assuming you didn't train o
ut far enough by yourself first. Otherwise, go out about 20 miles with a good land mark and single toss. Do this a couple of times, it should help.


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## sunshineracinglofts (Sep 1, 2011)

^^^^^^^^^^ yep yep what he said...

Short guys in our Associaiton always LOVE training with the long guys, they are always trying to arrange a training pool... every year people jump on board and wonder why there birds are getting there ass whipped every week depsite being in good shape and being og good birds too! Best i can say is start training them by yourself, when the season starts and you are doing your mid-week tosses, then i would say its ok to join in with the other flyers, thats what i did and they came home every day directly.good luck to you.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

Your going to have to do some evening tosses, take them 10 miles and time them. Then find out what time sundown is, if it takes them 14 min to get home turn them out with 14 min, the next night take off 30 seconds the next night another 30 seconds. You should be able to knock off 2 min, it gives them a real urgency to get home. After that they are not sure if it is evening or not and they wont go to town first they will just come home and fast. That is the only way to break them from going to town first. this year, next year you can do as other people have said. JMO
Dave


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## preacher boy (Sep 22, 2010)

Crazy Pete said:


> Your going to have to do some evening tosses, take them 10 miles and time them. Then find out what time sundown is, if it takes them 14 min to get home turn them out with 14 min, the next night take off 30 seconds the next night another 30 seconds. You should be able to knock off 2 min, it gives them a real urgency to get home. After that they are not sure if it is evening or not and they wont go to town first they will just come home and fast. That is the only way to break them from going to town first. this year, next year you can do as other people have said. JMO
> Dave


That's interesting Crazy Pete.. Never heard that before,I'll give that a try..


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

preacher boy said:


> This will be my 3rd race in old birds this season. Did not race as young birds in 2011. I am about 45 miles from the main thrust of the other handlers and *my birds always go into that city with their birds,and then they come home to my loft. *As you know by the time they do that,I have lost precious time and am never in the running. I flew my birds with their birds on training flights hoping to avoid this. I keep them hungry before the race and I try to motovate them by their mates. But by their time getting home I believe that is what their doing..Is this in the breeding,or can you somehow train them to break away from the flock to get them out of this?? Thanks to all in advance..


 I havn't flown Old Birds since I think it was 1969, so the particulars on OB flying I have no recent experience. I am just curious as to how you know your birds are following other pigeons home and then coming to their loft ?

Many fanciers believe that proper road training will assist the birds in learning to "break for home". Leaving a larger flock to head for the home loft, is of course a bit unnatural as pigeons like to fly together. I suspect that a lot of winning pigeons have "broken" from the flock, now was that in their genes or due to training ?  Who can really say ?

This idea of single tossing has been around for a long time. And although I haven't taken the time to use this training method in YB's, I know there are a lot of old timers which swore that single tossing forced the birds to think on their own. How true that is, I do not know, but it does sort of make sense. 

If I were you, I would break out the Google Earth and study the terrain, and come up with a good guess as to where the birds would break at an hour or so from home and train a lot from that location. Only after your birds are breaking for home would I train with other fliers. If you train with other fliers too early, I suspect you could inadvertently be training your birds to follow a larger group of birds home, and then going to their loft. I have had personal experience with this happening while training with another fancier. He had a much larger YB team and some of mind were ending up at his loft. After that discovery I changed my training with other fanciers till much latter in the season.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

There is/was a training tool called a single toss machine. You would set the machine up in a field somewhere the night before, and then in the morning the machine would release a bird every 10 or 15 minutes. There was a guy who use to be in our club who would use such a machine. Personally the idea of my birds being in a cage out in a field some where over night just sort of sounded crazy. 

Why I bothered to share this story is because of what reportedly happened, the truth of which there is no way to know, but it sure makes a good story. This fancier went to place birds into this machine for training after a race. And what did he find sitting on top of the machine ? A pigeon which he had entered into the race but had failed to return home. The bird instead had "homed" to the single toss machine. 

Stories such as this, and reports of pigeons first flying to training release points before going home, could just be that....stories. But, I suspect that pigeons could develop such habits which could prevent them from becoming race winners. It's possible that without knowing it, we could be training some bad habits into our birds without even realizing it. 

I share these stories with you, so that you consider how and where you are training, and maybe some of your training is somehow teaching them habits which later during the races, delays their return home. It's hard to know because we don't really think like pigeons.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

All those other tips are good if started weeks befor the first race, not weeks after the first race. My way will hopefully break a bad habit, a few birds may spend the night out and they don't like that and will learn real fast what not to do. I was taught by an old timer down in Tuscon, the only name i have for him is Cowboy, he had a lot of trophies from Tuscon and from I think it was Jersey. any body know him?
Dave


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

There is a guy known as Cowboy from Long Island and moved down to Arizona. He's part of the Loerfice Family. If it's the same cowboy I bought 2 birds last night at the ITF Auction that his nephew bred. One is a nice splash down from 720 stuff.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

That last name does sound right, and his accent is not from Tuscon. Great guy, and he's not affraid to place a bet.
Dave


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

This what an old timer in the club told me .. "If your birds in the lead it don't need to break" I guess there is truth in jest..but seriously though I struggled with this dilemma last yb season and after talking with the guys in my club I came to the conclusion to train ybs early and as often as you can. 

Reach a certain airmile distance of 25/35/45/65 miles out and keep taking them back to that point until the entire group comes home and drops on the landing board. Obviously have breakfast waiting on them so they race home and only feed enough to hold them over until the evening toss and have their dinner waiting on them when they arrive. It cost a fortune in gas but if you train 3 times a week and loft fly on their rest days its doable.
Another suggestion I was advised to do was release the birds in groups of 3 versus doing single tosses. From what people have told me the birds will home faster when they are racing each other.

Also on a side note I tried Crazy Pete's idea of evening tosses. I used to do that after work and on one release the birds didn't come home like normal. That night about 11:30pm they started dropping onto the landing board..I think I had 8 out of 45 come home on arounf 11:30-midnight and the next day birds where coming in all morning. I don't know if they decided to sleep in the woods and changed thier minds or what but don't lock your traps if your birds are out or else they'll be sleeping on your roof. (Easy owl bait)


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## Lovelace (Jan 10, 2008)

One little word of advice ''no'' afternoon tosses, I know someone in our club that tosses in the afternoon because of his work, only once in a blue moon does he win a race.


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## preacher boy (Sep 22, 2010)

Lovelace said:


> One little word of advice ''no'' afternoon tosses, I know someone in our club that tosses in the afternoon because of his work, only once in a blue moon does he win a race.


Lovelace,that is interesting you said that,for that is how I have been training also,due to work..


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

Hey if you train your birds in the afternoon and they come home they must be good!!! I know a a guy that took like 60-70 birds on an afternoon toss after about 5 days he had like 22 back.


And Warren, last year we had a tough auction race we go to the club house and there is a stray pigeon there we catch it, turns out that the guy trains at the club house a lot so the bird went there.

A lot of guys crate their birds at night to toss in the morning, I think that's a bad idea, a pigeon needs to be at home in his nest box or perch, to really know this is home and a good place, but that is just my opinion after all.


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## Lovelace (Jan 10, 2008)

Well I see it this way if we did not have GPS or high tech equipment to help us find our way, what would you do? use the SUN and Stars to find your way. Our birds are released in the morning hours so I train in the morning hours. I think the best thing in the world for our young birds to learn first, is to put them in some type of cage and put them on top of the loft 3 or 4 times in a week, they will zero in on the loft. You would be amazed of the results. when it comes time to loft fly.


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

Lovelace said:


> Well I see it this way if we did not have GPS or high tech equipment to help us find our way, what would you do? use the SUN and Stars to find your way. Our birds are released in the morning hours so I train in the morning hours. I think the best thing in the world for our young birds to learn first, is to put them in some type of cage and put them on top of the loft 3 or 4 times in a week, they will zero in on the loft. You would be amazed of the results. when it comes time to loft fly.


I don't understand you keep them in that cage on top of the loft after they have been let out and flying and tossed?


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## Lovelace (Jan 10, 2008)

No I put them in a cage on top of the loft for a couple hours after they have been trap train.


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

Lovelace said:


> One little word of advice ''no'' afternoon tosses, I know someone in our club that tosses in the afternoon because of his work, only once in a blue moon does he win a race.


Just because that one guy trains in the afternoon and doesn't fly so well doesn't mean it's not good to train in the afternoon. Maybe he's just a bad handler and it has nothing to do with when he trains. Most guys here train early in the morning I don't get up until after 11 in the morning most of the time so my birds don't get tossed until 12 or 1 and I think I hold my own against the other guys. Especially since I've been in the top 6 in the IF Champion Loft the past few years and I won the IF Hall of Fame last year with one of my birds along with have 3 more birds in the top 7 on that list. Here's the plate I got for winning.


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## Lovelace (Jan 10, 2008)

Maybe so he could be a bad handler, but I myself have tried it, and it did not work for me,
Sounds like it works for you, never change something that works. I well keep the morning tosses cause it works for me.


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## pigeon_racer (Jan 12, 2009)

Pigeon0446,

Nice plate congratulations!

Ralph


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