# Canker Doves! Need input ( kinda long)



## Birdbabe (Jan 24, 2006)

Hi all, In the past two days Ive found three doves with canker in my yard...the first one was so far gone(dont know where it came from) that there was nothing I could do. The canker was so bad you could actually see it coming out of the mouth and smell the necrotic tissue. Any way then I found another...not as bad but from a distance I could see the throat was very swollen and it was trying so hard to eat...I couldnt catch this one, still strong enough to fly off. THEN I found another one, it was hanging around the water for a while trying to drink. It also had a very swollen throat. I managed to get this with a net and a lot of stalking. She has canker too, but not as bad as the first one. I manged to clear all the seed out of her throat for its almost completly closed off. The canker is way down in there, cant see it but can feel it and smell it.I dropped a little water into her mouth and she dribbled it down,but not too much coz she starts to hack if I try more. She on a heating pad, in the room in the garage. Now I have Flagyl and have acsess to Metronidazole (same thing)??? I got a little Flagyl in her and shes pretty sad just sittin there all sick. Theres no path to put a syringe with formula so Im trying to at least get her some fluids....now my question...I have some avian training on sub Q fluid therapy and was wondering can I give her warm saline(thats all I have) or should I just call a vet and beg for some LRS?  I hate to see her like this...and want to do whats best. Ive had success in the past rehabbing canker doves, but as you all know each case is different. Thanks for the help.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Personally, I would go with the lactated ringer's solution.


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## EgypSwiftLady (Jan 14, 2008)

This may sound like a dumb question but are the doves wild or are they ringnecks? I'm trying to learn from everyone on the list, and especially the rehabbers about treating PMV, canker, ect. in wild and feral pigeons.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

The LRS.

And you know that there are a few varieties of the stuff. You'd probably want to use the kind without the 5% Dextrose first and then you might follow with some with it later if you can't get any nourishment in the bird. For more on that:

http://www.drugs.com/pro/lactated-ringer-s.html

Pidgey


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Is the water the doves try to drink from contained? Maybe you could get a canker treatment which is soluble and put that in the water for the specified number of days? CheviCol Powder from Chevita is such a product.

For the one you have, if the metronidazole is in liquid form (obviously easier to administer), then a few days of that could fix her. Flagyl tablets contain metronidazole.


John


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## Birdbabe (Jan 24, 2006)

Thanks everyone, the doves are wild. The one that passed and the one I currently have are mourning doves, the one I cant catch is a ringneck. Ill give this dove the metronidazole and continue with the water dropping in her mouth. While trying to gently find a path for formula. Ive contacted a vet that I know and am waiting to hear back from him about getting some LRS or Dextrose pecent. As for the water source, I clean all my bird baths with bleach water everyday, so I hope Im doing my part to give them fresh water. We do have a nieghbor down the road with a fish pond????And who knows what else is in others yards... I'll keep ya updated,thanks again.


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## ezemaxima (Jan 12, 2008)

If you have metronidazole in liquid form, start adding it to your drinkers to help other birds that maybe infected too. Good luck on this one and hope you catch the other one too.


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## Birdbabe (Jan 24, 2006)

Good morning all...well the little dove is perching on the side of her rolled up towel instead of just laying there.I guess this is good?! She still very ill, and painfully thin....she will take a few drops of water, but then she kind of hacks and gurgles...scary. I handle her as gently and as little as possible.Shes had two doses of Flagyl and two doses of metronidazole so far. I cant afford to put this stuff in the outside water, Ive only got like 5 ml's of it.I got it from the compounding pharmacy down the road. So, Ill just continue caring for her and scrubbing the birdbaths daily with the bleach water... still no word from the vet about the LRS, hope to hear this morning....updates when I get them.


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## EgypSwiftLady (Jan 14, 2008)

Birdbabe said:


> Good morning all...well the little dove is perching on the side of her rolled up towel instead of just laying there.I guess this is good?! She still very ill, and painfully thin....she will take a few drops of water, but then she kind of hacks and gurgles...scary. I handle her as gently and as little as possible.Shes had two doses of Flagyl and two doses of metronidazole so far. I cant afford to put this stuff in the outside water, Ive only got like 5 ml's of it.I got it from the compounding pharmacy down the road. So, Ill just continue caring for her and scrubbing the birdbaths daily with the bleach water... still no word from the vet about the LRS, hope to hear this morning....updates when I get them.



Hi Birdbabe, 
Sounds like she is feeling better since shes up and perching. I hope she keeps getting better, I've been wondering how things were going.
I'm glad you found her.


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## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

You can do something about the water, though. You could put a teaspoon of apple cider vinegar in it, which helps kill germs. Or colloidal silver (a few drops) and of course keep them clean. You may want to see if there is a way to make the neighborhood aware to start cleaning all water pots and dumping out stagnant water from flower pots or buckets. Most likely it is "Green Pool Syndrome". Somebody in the area might have a nasty swimming pool. Are there any foreclosed abandoned houses or for sale houses around you? They probably have a contaminated pond or pool in the back and the germs will be growing in those. Some varieties of the canker protozoa are an STD in humans, so you get my drift. Dirty humans, pool left to rot, disease spreading in your wild birds.


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## Birdbabe (Jan 24, 2006)

Thanks Philodice... I have a feeling you dont live to far from me. Anyway, I have no gross icky water problems in my yard, but you may be correct on the other suspicions. As far as I know we dont have any homes like you suggested around us...but we do live in a county island and some of the homes are nice and cleaned while others..well you get the visual. Also I got the LRS from the vet, he is so wonderful. Im doing the sub Q fluid therapy and she looks more alert, at least her eyes are 'glistening' again. She lets me open her mouth and I can see the canker way down in there now...seems like its right above the crop. I still cant get any formula down there coz its still blocked. Im getting worried, shes got to be starving! Hopefully another few doses of the Metronidazole will get that stuff moving outta there. I do hve apple cider vinager...yes yes will stat that NOW. Thanks again.


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## Birdbabe (Jan 24, 2006)

Success! I fianally got a path to give her formula...was getting really worried there. I gave her about 6 cc's of thin formula (dont want to overdue it) Ill do this every 3 to 4 hours if the path stays clear and thicken it and increase it as she grows stronger...thanks to everyone for the help.Updates as they emerge.


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## Birdbabe (Jan 24, 2006)

Well, were getting more and more food down her and shes acting better. The ball of canker has decreased immensly, and shes pretty wild now. Trys to get away from me, but shes not going anywhere just as yet. I need to pack some weight on her and finish the medicine. As soon as shes able, she'll be set free. Thanks again everyone.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thanks for the good news update! I'm glad things are coming along so well.

Terry


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## Birdbabe (Jan 24, 2006)

I must have a sign on my roof!!! I just went out into the garage about half an hour ago, and there was a little canker dove sitting by my car. This one has a weird sound coming out when it trys to breathe Theres also bubbles coming out of the mouth and it smells. The canker is at the top of the throat just behind the tounge...oh lord....It looks really bad. Ill do what I can, at least its not out baking in the Arizona sun.


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## KIPPY (Dec 18, 2003)

> I must have a sign on my roof!!!


I know how you feel, I thought a had some wierd sign on my roof one time or another.

I started flock treating around this time or putting acv/garlic in the water. I still get some but not like it use to be. 

It's bad enough one, but one after another? I hope everything goes well and all the other doves out there are doing fine.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Great update on first dovey. Hope you can pull through the new one. Sounds like she is pretty bad.

Reti


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

So glad to hear the good news on the first dove. I hope you can help the second one too, though it doesn't sound promising. Must be a nasty strain of canker in your area.


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## Birdbabe (Jan 24, 2006)

Second Dovie passed away. ..I was surprised she /he made it thru the night an into today. The other is doing well...My path is blocked again. Im able to 2 or 3 ccs of formula down her, but no more. darn canker! its kind of like it has a mind of its own....I can still see it way down in there but it definatly is a lot smaller.By later or tomorrow, Im sure it will be different again.This one is a fighter though....Im praying for her.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Birdbabe - I'm praying for her too. We periodically get doves with canker so bad there is nothing we can do to save them. To me, they have a worse case than any pigeon I have ever seen with canker. 

One of the saddest things is that you can't catch them until it is too late to help them, only try to make their passing as easy as possible. I remember a few years back we had several with canker. One little guy came in our garage and got in a corner. I know he knew he needed to be in a protected area away from predators. We treated him but he died anyhow.


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

I'm so sorry the second dove didn't make it, Birdbabe. Sometimes it's too far advanced, all through their system, and there's really nothing to be done for them. I'm still pulling for the first one.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Sorry to hear he didn't make it.

Reti


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## Birdbabe (Jan 24, 2006)

Bad news all....the little Dove just passed away, I was really pulling for her. She perked up quite a bit, but then just went downhill real fast. She looked ok till about 2.30am this morning. She was dying the last hour or so, so I cuddled her in a towel and held her on my lap,talking softly to her. Im upset, a little teary eyed. You try so hard, but if its theyre time, then its theyre time. At least shes not hurting any more..Thanks for everything.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

I'm so sorry, Birdbabe. Bless you for trying so hard for these little ones.

Terry


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I am so sorry. Canker is such a devastating disease for those little ones. Thank you for trying so hard.

Reti


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

I'm so very sorry, Birdbabe. Bless you for trying. Sometimes it's too far advanced. I have _The Flying Vet's Guide to Pigeon Health & Management_. He shows necropsy photos in the book of pigeons with advanced cases of canker. You can see lesions all through their organs and it's terrible to look at, but it helped me understand why some cases aren't treatable. I imagine your poor little doves were probably in that state. I don't think there is anything you could have done to save them, but at least you tried and gave them some comfort as they passed.


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