# Unknown growth around beak. HELP!



## krzys_cce (Jul 16, 2013)

Hello,

I have one pigeon that i rescued from certain death more than 16 months ago and today I noticed this weird growth around her beak, it does not feel hot or anything but as you would imagine its very hard to even examine it. Its not visible because of feathers but once i got that area a bit wet i was able to see it better and take a picture of it.

I am going to call an avian vet first thing tomorrow morning but until then, I need to have a better idea what this is. 

Please see pics below.

In this picture you cant see it as he feathers are dry:









In the 2nd and 3rd pic, you can clearly see it once i got it a tiny bit wet.



















Anyone has any ideas? I am almost sick worrying about it. 

Also if anyone knows of a good avian vet in Vaughan, Ontario or close to that deals with pigeons, I would really appreciate it. I have a phone number for one but I am not sure if they deal with pigeons.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

The photo is not clear. Most of this kind of growths are pox, or, more seldom, canker.

For pox, someone on this forum recommended to put tea tree oil on lesion, if the skin is not broken. Tea tree oil is very strong, you should dilute it with water in half, if I'm not wrong. Otherwise, pox, as other viral diseases, can't be successfully stopped, you should wait until it goes its way, which may last a month, two months or more, then the lesions dry up and fall from the body. 


But when pox is located at head, there appear complications, the beak may swell, obstruct the mouth and you gonna have to hand feed the bird liquid food with a tube until the beak deflates and he will be able to eat on his own again. In the case you gonna hand feed him, don't drag the beak up or down, especially the upper part, as is very fragile because of pox (and even without pox, because of the nasal cavity) and may break appart from cranium. Instead, open the mouth by pressing on both sides and the base of the beak.


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## krzys_cce (Jul 16, 2013)

AndreiS said:


> The photo is not clear. Most of this kind of growths are pox, or, more seldom, canker.
> 
> For pox, someone on this forum recommended t put tea tree oil on lesion, if the skin is not broken. Tea tree oil is very strong, you should dilute it with water in half, if I'm not wrong. Otherwise, pox, as other viral diseases, can"t successfully stopped, you should wait until it goes its way, whch may last a month, two months or more, then the lesions dry up and fall from the body.



Thank you. 

You know what would be the best way to describe this.... It looks like a human pimple. It does feel a bit warm to touch. I dont want to touch it too much, i am not sure if its hurting her.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

krzys_cce said:


> Thank you.
> 
> You know what would be the best way to describe this.... It looks like a human pimple. It does feel a bit warm to touch. I dont want to touch it too much, i am not sure if its hurting her.


Yes, but it may grow (or not) bigger than this, getting a scarry aspect. If is on feet or pther part of the body, the lesions may multiply. at head is the most dangerous, as may cause ireversible complications.

Taking care to not break the beak is the most important. And if you have other pigeons, take care that is very contagious to them (not at all to humans). Wash your hand after handling the bird and isolate him if possible. Viruses are very resistent, even if they live the host body, they remain "alive" for months so the environment where the bird stayed for six weeks (the period the bird is contagious) will remain infested for a long period.


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## krzys_cce (Jul 16, 2013)

AndreiS said:


> Yes, but it may grow (or not) bigger than this, getting a scarry aspect. If is on feet or pther part of the body, the lesions may multiply. at head is the most dangerous, as may cause ireversible complications.
> 
> Taking care to not break the beak is the most important. And if you have other pigeons, take care that is very contagious to them (not at all to humans). Wash your hand after handling the bird and isolate him if possible. Viruses are very resistent, even if they live the host body, they remain "alive" for months so the environment where the bird stayed for six weeks (the period the bird is contagious) will remain infested for a long period.


AndreiS,

I only have that one pigeon. Shes an indoor pigeon. I am taking her to the vet asap. I figured i would ask someone on here first so I could have a better idea what this is. This almost feels like a cyst. But guessing is guessing. I hope the avian vets I found, deal with pigeons/doves.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Our girl pigeon, Phoebe, had a growth that turned out to be just a cosmetic growth on each side of her beak. The avian vet said not to worry about it. I am glad you are taking the pigeon to an avian vet. Is the growth the red area?


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## krzys_cce (Jul 16, 2013)

cwebster said:


> Our girl pigeon, Phoebe, had a growth that turned out to be just a cosmetic growth on each side of her beak. The avian vet said not to worry about it. I am glad you are taking the pigeon to an avian vet. Is the growth the red area?


I am nearly worried sick. Pepper is almost like my therapy pet. 

As for her growth..it looks like a human pimple would, i mean size wise its the size of a human pimple and look wise except its above her beak. 

Cant really see on the pic, i had a hard time holding her and trying to take a picture. She was more interested in my phone. 

I hope you are right and it might be nothing. I need to call few avian vets tomorrow and find out if they can see me as not all might want to see a pigeon.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

My business is in Vaughan. Call Links Rd animal clinic, they are the go to for birds, and yet....
They are expensive too tho and had sent a friends bird home to die with no diagnosis after a 690 buck vet bill. Turned out I got the bird, found out it had red mites that were sucking all the blood and making the bird so weak and close to death. Clinic got it wrong and sent home to die. I got it, dealt with it and still have bird to this day good and healthy, SO that said, Im sure they will be fine with the obvious growth where they dont have to guess whats wrong. Let me know what vet you do go to. 

I wish I could see a much more clear pic. Could be a simple ingrown feather that just needs to be squeezed like a zit. 

You can contact me if you want and if you want to bring me the bird to look at, all good with me. PM me if you wish to hook up. I live 30 min from Vaughan tho.

Also how old did you say this bird was, its entire beak looks odd to me, like long and narrow and the cere looks to be that of youngster like a few months old???? What breed of pigeon is it?


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

I think is not a bad idea to preventively give Metronidazole. It seems it misses some feathers next to the beak which happens when a bird has canker. That "pimple" could too be canker. Give 40 mg metro / day for 4 days.


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## krzys_cce (Jul 16, 2013)

CBL said:


> My business is in Vaughan. Call Links Rd animal clinic, they are the go to for birds, and yet....
> They are expensive too tho and had sent a friends bird home to die with no diagnosis after a 690 buck vet bill. Turned out I got the bird, found out it had red mites that were sucking all the blood and making the bird so weak and close to death. Clinic got it wrong and sent home to die. I got it, dealt with it and still have bird to this day good and healthy, SO that said, Im sure they will be fine with the obvious growth where they dont have to guess whats wrong. Let me know what vet you do go to.
> 
> I wish I could see a much more clear pic. Could be a simple ingrown feather that just needs to be squeezed like a zit.
> ...



I sent you a PM


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Ok to be fair, no worries at all, will call the number you gave and we will have a look together. Was the links the clinic you were going to go to? If when I see the bird, I can also refer you to another bird vet in Newmarket and he is not as crazy in price for birds as links and he does take care of birds for a local pet store near me.

As I was saying to be fair to links, when they did send bird home to die with no diagnosis other than the bird is stressed. They didnt care to find out WHAT was stressing the birdd, when she brought me the bird finally it was staggering and teetering at the bottom of the cage it was so weak I was afraid to pick up it for fear of it keeling over dead. It was so mite ridden that it literally was having the life sucked out of it. Extremely weak. I made glucose water, quickly crop needled the bird and set it back down till it stopped staggering, long story short, kept the bird weighted the bird was close to 70 grams should have been 120 grams, so underweight from no rest, not eating much at all and the mites eating it alive. I crop needled bird for 4 days with formula and he gained weight so fast that I had to stop feeding him. He is gorgeous and happy and healthy. My simple quarantine protocol of ivermectin for parasites AIL for mites and 4-1 for any other illness, not knowing he had mites at this time) so accidentally curing the problem. When the lady brought me a second bird, (a canary paralyzed) I asked that she keep a cover on it till she got her and we took bird outside on deck to examine it and when I saw the inside of the cover, loaded with red mite I knew what was killing and stressing the cockatiel. So I called the links rd vet and gave them the information and heck for sending bird home with such a large bill to die with no diagnosis. He explained to me that he would not have been able to see the mites because they have all stainless steel environment and would not see it. I said had you put a cover on the bird and white towelling in cage in future you could make a diagnosis and treatment for the birds. He agreed and apologized. All I cared about was that he knew what to look for in future if a bird presented with those same symptoms instead of taking the money and saying I have no clue. They were correct in their observation of the bird being stressed but didnt care to find out why or advise the lady to look for red mite by covering with white pillow case and paper towel on floor, to me this should be recognized as part of their diagnosis.

Observation as most pigeon people know is 'dancing on the perch' or stomping of the feet. 
Im sure they are good for surgeries. Just wanted to restore your faith in that clinic. No one can be 100% all the time. In the end u may need them to remove a growth if too large. Otherwise the vet near me who does birds is another option. I will email you so we can meet up thanks. The REASON the lady had such an infestation of red mite was this. She used to collect OUTSIDE bird nests and use them for crafts and just collect them because they liked them and this is what brought the mites into her home!


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## krzys_cce (Jul 16, 2013)

CBL said:


> Ok to be fair, no worries at all, will call the number you gave and we will have a look together. Was the links the clinic you were going to go to? If when I see the bird, I can also refer you to another bird vet in Newmarket and he is not as crazy in price for birds as links and he does take care of birds for a local pet store near me.
> 
> As I was saying to be fair to links, when they did send bird home to die with no diagnosis other than the bird is stressed. They didnt care to find out WHAT was stressing the birdd, when she brought me the bird finally it was staggering and teetering at the bottom of the cage it was so weak I was afraid to pick up it for fear of it keeling over dead. It was so mite ridden that it literally was having the life sucked out of it. Extremely weak. I made glucose water, quickly crop needled the bird and set it back down till it stopped staggering, long story short, kept the bird weighted the bird was close to 70 grams should have been 120 grams, so underweight from no rest, not eating much at all and the mites eating it alive. I crop needled bird for 4 days with formula and he gained weight so fast that I had to stop feeding him. He is gorgeous and happy and healthy. My simple quarantine protocol of ivermectin for parasites AIL for mites and 4-1 for any other illness, not knowing he had mites at this time) so accidentally curing the problem. When the lady brought me a second bird, (a canary paralyzed) I asked that she keep a cover on it till she got her and we took bird outside on deck to examine it and when I saw the inside of the cover, loaded with red mite I knew what was killing and stressing the cockatiel. So I called the links rd vet and gave them the information and heck for sending bird home with such a large bill to die with no diagnosis. He explained to me that he would not have been able to see the mites because they have all stainless steel environment and would not see it. I said had you put a cover on the bird and white towelling in cage in future you could make a diagnosis and treatment for the birds. He agreed and apologized. All I cared about was that he knew what to look for in future if a bird presented with those same symptoms instead of taking the money and saying I have no clue. They were correct in their observation of the bird being stressed but didnt care to find out why or advise the lady to look for red mite by covering with white pillow case and paper towel on floor, to me this should be recognized as part of their diagnosis.
> 
> ...


Oh wow, I don't think my situation is that complicated. Pepper is happy as she every is. She comes to me in the morning, does her dance. Preens my face for as long as she can. Does her soft noises that she always does. Shes just her happy pigeon. Just that growth is worrying me. She is going through moulting it seems like again, I am not sure if its from being indoors 24/7 and not getting enough UV light from sunlight. But thats another reason why I want to see an expert. You really seem to know your pigeon stuff...I know nothing, I am slowly learning. 

Peppers feathers are growing out again so you could be right that it is a ingrown feather. I still want an expert to look at it. So anytime you can call me or message me it will be ok. If you are busy, I can go see that place in new market you are mentioning. I live at dufferin and rutherford area so for me to drive to new market isn't that far either. 

No matter who I see, you or that vet in new market, I will pay obviously for their time. 

Once again, thank you for getting back to me. I am watching pepper from work on my camera in my computer room, shes sitting in the window doing her normal things so I am hoping its just the feather.


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## krzys_cce (Jul 16, 2013)

AndreiS said:


> I think is not a bad idea to preventively give Metronidazole. It seems it misses some feathers next to the beak which happens when a bird has canker. That "pimple" could too be canker. Give 40 mg metro / day for 4 days.


Thank you, I will look into this.


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## krzys_cce (Jul 16, 2013)

CBL said:


> Ok to be fair, no worries at all, will call the number you gave and we will have a look together. Was the links the clinic you were going to go to? If when I see the bird, I can also refer you to another bird vet in Newmarket and he is not as crazy in price for birds as links and he does take care of birds for a local pet store near me.
> 
> As I was saying to be fair to links, when they did send bird home to die with no diagnosis other than the bird is stressed. They didnt care to find out WHAT was stressing the birdd, when she brought me the bird finally it was staggering and teetering at the bottom of the cage it was so weak I was afraid to pick up it for fear of it keeling over dead. It was so mite ridden that it literally was having the life sucked out of it. Extremely weak. I made glucose water, quickly crop needled the bird and set it back down till it stopped staggering, long story short, kept the bird weighted the bird was close to 70 grams should have been 120 grams, so underweight from no rest, not eating much at all and the mites eating it alive. I crop needled bird for 4 days with formula and he gained weight so fast that I had to stop feeding him. He is gorgeous and happy and healthy. My simple quarantine protocol of ivermectin for parasites AIL for mites and 4-1 for any other illness, not knowing he had mites at this time) so accidentally curing the problem. When the lady brought me a second bird, (a canary paralyzed) I asked that she keep a cover on it till she got her and we took bird outside on deck to examine it and when I saw the inside of the cover, loaded with red mite I knew what was killing and stressing the cockatiel. So I called the links rd vet and gave them the information and heck for sending bird home with such a large bill to die with no diagnosis. He explained to me that he would not have been able to see the mites because they have all stainless steel environment and would not see it. I said had you put a cover on the bird and white towelling in cage in future you could make a diagnosis and treatment for the birds. He agreed and apologized. All I cared about was that he knew what to look for in future if a bird presented with those same symptoms instead of taking the money and saying I have no clue. They were correct in their observation of the bird being stressed but didnt care to find out why or advise the lady to look for red mite by covering with white pillow case and paper towel on floor, to me this should be recognized as part of their diagnosis.
> 
> ...


Links Rd. Emailed me to bring Pepper in. I have an appointment for tomorrow at 4:30 pm. I will let you know what they say.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

AndreiS said:


> I think is not a bad idea to preventively give Metronidazole. It seems it misses some feathers next to the beak which happens when a bird has canker. That "pimple" could too be canker. Give 40 mg metro / day for 4 days.



Giving Metro or any other med for so short a period of time isn't a good idea, as all that does is to help the bacteria or in the case of canker, the trich, to build an immunity to the drug. Once you start a drug, you finish it the full term. Should be at least 7 days to be safe.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Hope Pepper gets as clean bill of health. We decided to just leave Phoebe's growths alone as the vet said they were of no consequence really, just cosmetic, and that removal would be painful and create bleeding. She's active, happy, and does not seem bothered by them. Hope Pepper is well tomorrow.


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## krzys_cce (Jul 16, 2013)

cwebster said:


> Hope Pepper gets as clean bill of health. We decided to just leave Phoebe's growths alone as the vet said they were of no consequence really, just cosmetic, and that removal would be painful and create bleeding. She's active, happy, and does not seem bothered by them. Hope Pepper is well tomorrow.


Pepper is good. Lots of good things happened today. I will post an update tomorrow in a new thread.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Cweb, he cancelled his appt and came to see me instead. I checked it out, small and very hard almost like bone, cannot rule out canker for that small spot but seems not to be. Mouth is nice and clean but we know it could be internal canker. Bird seemed tired and thin with a slower blink rate but alert enough. I gave a wormer. Gave the bird a bath it was in desperate need of. She is a real sweetheart and super attached to Krzys. He loves that bird. It was a pleasure to see. We had a great visit for 4.5 hours. Dried the bird set her up with proper nutrition, oils and grits . She is a very pretty bird. Blue bar white flight pied. Thin tho and extremely scraggly with incomplete moult, bald spots and extremely greasy. I look forward to seeing the bird bloom into the beauty I know she will be. I told him keep a picture or video diary now and watch her transform. Funnily I said the same thing regarding her hard little nodule that u cant see unless her feathers get wet. Feels like a stone literally. Leave it well enough alone if not large enough to bother her. We will watch to see if it changes and I have referred him to a local vet who takes care of the birds from two local pet stores, Petsmart and Pet Paradise. He has tons of bird experience and is less money. He can always refer to the avian vet if he feels it is out of his league. I think not tho. He is good. I also recommend canker meds to see if that nodule goes away. If not then I know its a small hard growth. I sent him home with some of my feed mix and he said she ate like a pig and drank like crazy, I cant wait to see her put on all that weight.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Hey where is pigeon talk based from, it says my post is 3 hours behind, actual time here is 10:33 pm???


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

CBL, am so glad that you took care of the pigeon today! Hope the growths turn out to be innocuous like Phoebe's. Thanks for helping, that was really great of you.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

CBL said:


> Hey where is pigeon talk based from, it says my post is 3 hours behind, actual time here is 10:33 pm???


In User CP, there is a section under Settings & Options named 'Edit Options'.

Date & Time Options - these include 'Time Zone' - your local geographical time zone offset from GMT/UTC


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Thanks John, got it within 2 min of correct time. Thanks Cweb, it was my pleasure.


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