# Is it ok to release 2 months old bird at 9 miles (air distance)?



## toilco (Aug 1, 2008)

Hi, I'm planning to release my 2 months old bird at 9 miles? My loft is open everyday, and all my birds including my young birds are free to go in and out and everyday they are flying so i think its not necessary to train my young birds at 1 mile, 5 miles, etc... , i want to train them right away at 9 miles, i believe that if a bird is good he/she can manage to find her/his way home, i believe with this kind of training I'll be able to cull the inferior one, what are your thoughts guys? thanks and Merry Christmas


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I think you should have a smaller toss for their very first time, before you go out to 9-10.
Just because it's sort of like expecting a baby to run before it can walk. It's a new and stressful experience for them their first time, and I like to take it easy on them. So they know what to expect next time


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## toilco (Aug 1, 2008)

MaryOfExeter said:


> I think you should have a smaller toss for their very first time, before you go out to 9-10.
> Just because it's sort of like expecting a baby to run before it can walk. It's a new and stressful experience for them their first time, and I like to take it easy on them. So they know what to expect next time


what if she/he found its home at 9 miles, does it mean she/he is a good racer?


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

No. It simply means it can find home from nine miles. Racing is much different than training.


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## realtalk72 (Nov 7, 2009)

if you feel confident in your birds go ahead my first toss was 20 miles ...if there routing good should be fine ..


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## toilco (Aug 1, 2008)

Jaysen said:


> No. It simply means it can find home from nine miles. Racing is much different than training.


i dont agree, i believe racing and training are the same, lol, in training you toss the bird and in racing they toss the bird, that's the only difference hehehe. And the bird don't know the difference, to them its the same.


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## toilco (Aug 1, 2008)

realtalk72 said:


> if you feel confident in your birds go ahead my first toss was 20 miles ...if there routing good should be fine ..


the truth is i release 2young birds yesterday, they are brother and sister both age 1 month and 24 days old, the male lost while its sister was able to find its way home but it took her 3.5 hours lol, when they are 1 month old, i already notice that the female is smarter than his brother, at 1 month old she don't want to feed on her parents anymore, she's not afraid to go out and observe its surroundings, she's very independent, she eat on her own, she is easy to teach, she is not afraid to be touch and not trembling while his brother the opposite, they are just like their parents, their father is very wild and always trembling while their mother is very tame, so i believe training young bird at 9 miles and longer is very good for culling the inferior one, i feel like im in the right tract going to the next level.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

toilco said:


> i dont agree, i believe racing and training are the same, lol, in training you toss the bird and in racing they toss the bird, that's the only difference hehehe. And the bird don't know the difference, to them its the same.


The difference is 100+ miles and speed. You may find you'll lose all your birds at 20 or 50 miles - you never know. And even if they do make it all the way out, they'll just be homers unless they come home in good time.


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## toilco (Aug 1, 2008)

MaryOfExeter said:


> The difference is 100+ miles and speed. You may find you'll lose all your birds at 20 or 50 miles - you never know. And even if they do make it all the way out, they'll just be homers unless they come home in good time.


well my young birds are 50% janssen and 50% flying machine

flying machine was bred by Jaime Lim, one of the best pigeon fanciers in the Philippines, and flying machine is 50% janssen and 50% dereree (for endurance)


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Mary --Give up giving Toilco advice
You giave him some very good advice.
BUT he disagreed with you --so Kiss the know-it-all goodbye.
I'm not even sure why he is asking questions on this site.
Maybe he will share some good advice with us --so we can WIN more Races or at least be closer to the TOP of the results.
Let him "learn" like you and I did.


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## toilco (Aug 1, 2008)

sky tx said:


> Mary --Give up giving Toilco advice
> You giave him some very good advice.
> BUT he disagreed with you --so Kiss the know-it-all goodbye.
> I'm not even sure why he is asking questions on this site.
> ...


you want to be on top? follow my training method, train your yb at 9 miles right away but make sure within that 2 months they are free to enter the loft in and out.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

sky tx said:


> Mary --Give up giving Toilco advice
> You giave him some very good advice.
> BUT he disagreed with you --so Kiss the know-it-all goodbye.
> I'm not even sure why he is asking questions on this site.
> ...


Hey Sky Tx...back from the dead!

Welcome and Merry Christmas.


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## drifter (Oct 7, 2009)

toilco said:


> the truth is i release 2young birds yesterday, they are brother and sister both age 1 month and 24 days old, the male lost while its sister was able to find its way home but it took her 3.5 hours lol, when they are 1 month old, i already notice that the female is smarter than his brother, at 1 month old she don't want to feed on her parents anymore, she's not afraid to go out and observe its surroundings, she's very independent, she eat on her own, she is easy to teach, she is not afraid to be touch and not trembling while his brother the opposite, they are just like their parents, their father is very wild and always trembling while their mother is very tame, so i believe training young bird at 9 miles and longer is very good for culling the inferior one, i feel like im in the right tract going to the next level.


Wow, they are both almost two months old and you can determine the sex? I wish I was that good at sexing my birds.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Do you have them trap/feed trained well? How long do they route?


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Toilco--Share your day to day traing and feeding secerts.
maybe even share your results?--number of birds in the race?--number of lofts in the race? Distance?
Make us WISH we were as good as you are and help us flyers that need help.
For me--50 miles is just a Training toss.
My first toss is 2 miles -2-3 times -when they are coming home good I start double the miles.
BUT then again --I ONLY raced 31 years- and was "only" in the top 10% most of the races. So if I was 100th out of a 1,000 bird race--I was happy with my results.
I did have One bird that had over 4,000 -Plus all the Training tosses--offical race miles before He was retired.


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## toilco (Aug 1, 2008)

grifter said:


> Wow, they are both almost two months old and you can determine the sex? I wish I was that good at sexing my birds.


i think the first egg to hatch is a female, and at 2 months old the male start cooing and he is larger than the female, i might be wrong lol


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

It's hard to get an accurate sexing until they are about 5 months old. The order that they hatch doesn't have any merit either. But the ones who coo more and are more aggressive, do have a better chance of turning out to be male usually. But since they are so young, they need to figure out their pecking order, so even the hens may be cocky to show they deserve a place in the loft.


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## toilco (Aug 1, 2008)

MaryOfExeter said:


> Do you have them trap/feed trained well? How long do they route?


hmmm im not sure if they are routing, they just circle the house in 2 to 5 minutes then after 1 hour or 2 hours, or etcc... they circle the house again, they are always out that's why they are not routing, they can go in and out the loft freely and the feed is always there.


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Yes ptras --thanks to you I was banned for 30 days.
But your time is coming--BE CAREFUL -HOPE your screen does not turn RED.
Old age and Trachery will overcome Youth and knowledge.


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## toilco (Aug 1, 2008)

sky tx said:


> Toilco--Share your day to day traing and feeding secerts.
> maybe even share your results?--number of birds in the race?--number of lofts in the race? Distance?
> Make us WISH we were as good as you are and help us flyers that need help.
> For me--50 miles is just a Training toss.
> ...


hehehhee secret is secret, if i tell you it wont be a secret anymore lol


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Your secert is You Don't Race or why did you not post your results?


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## toilco (Aug 1, 2008)

sky tx said:


> Your secert is You Don't Race or why did you not post your results?


you can find answer in the bible


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I did'nt know Jesus raced homers!!! lol...


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## chayi (May 1, 2010)

sky tx said:


> Yes ptras --thanks to you I was banned for 30 days.
> But your time is coming--BE CAREFUL -HOPE your screen does not turn RED.
> Old age and Trachery will overcome Youth and knowledge.


Welcome back sky tx missed you out here glad your back always like to read your threads. Take care and have a merry christmas


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

spirit wings said:


> I did'nt know Jesus raced homers!!! lol...


He may have!  Homers have been around since 3,000BC!


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

toilco said:


> hmmm im not sure if they are routing, they just circle the house in 2 to 5 minutes then after 1 hour or 2 hours, or etcc... they circle the house again, they are always out that's why they are not routing, they can go in and out the loft freely and the feed is always there.


Good luck getting them inside on race day. The reason they aren't routing is probably because they have food 24/7.


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Noah had pigeons on the ARK.
The Dove that brought back the sprig of evergreen died.
The lord told him to mate a Dove to a pigeon
So that is the reason both the Dove and Pigeon are the same family.
That the story I have always heard--BUT someone may have a different STORY??
Comments Please


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Didn't know about the mating to the pigeon. But sounds good to me


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

sky tx said:


> Noah had pigeons on the ARK.
> The Dove that brought back the sprig of evergreen died.
> The lord told him to mate a Dove to a pigeon
> So that is the reason both the Dove and Pigeon are the same family.
> ...


I like it....


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## rono842 (Dec 12, 2010)

hey guys this is a good back and forth keep it up, a lot of food for thought for me thanks


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## rono842 (Dec 12, 2010)

that brings up something i thought that having food all the time was not to happening


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## Wingsonfire (Dec 22, 2009)

toilco said:


> Hi, I'm planning to release my 2 months old bird at 9 miles? My loft is open everyday, and all my birds including my young birds are free to go in and out and everyday they are flying so i think its not necessary to train my young birds at 1 mile, 5 miles, etc... , i want to train them right away at 9 miles, i believe that if a bird is good he/she can manage to find her/his way home, i believe with this kind of training I'll be able to cull the inferior one, what are your thoughts guys? thanks and Merry Christmas


If you are asking it shows that you may be having doubts about, I would wait until you dont have to ask a question that you questioned yourself


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## blongboy (Nov 10, 2009)

toilco said:


> Hi, I'm planning to release my 2 months old bird at 9 miles? My loft is open everyday, and all my birds including my young birds are free to go in and out and everyday they are flying so i think its not necessary to train my young birds at 1 mile, 5 miles, etc... , i want to train them right away at 9 miles, i believe that if a bird is good he/she can manage to find her/his way home, i believe with this kind of training I'll be able to cull the inferior one, what are your thoughts guys? thanks and Merry Christmas


i wouldn't do it, they have to learn .. what they are suppose to do flying out of a crate..(look for home) the first toss is risk to me, cause my place have trees so i cant tell if they have route enough to start tossing or they are always in trees.

9 mile is far for a 2month old birds cause young bird love to mess around..


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## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

Well depending on where you live I think you should re-think your decision to release your birds. things to keep in mind:

1. your location. If you're down south I believe there might be a higher density of hawks/falcons in your area because they've all gone down south from here in Canada.

2. weather. Again, depending on your location. I wouldn't let young birds loose 9 miles away from home depending on the type of weather headed your way.



Zombieland taught me this:

" When in doubt, know your way out. "

I think 2 pigeons in the loft is better than -2 pigeons in the loft. Plus its the holidays, I'd hate to worry about lost pigeons!


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

klondike goldie said:


> First (I think) it ruins birds to give them open loft. They learn to sit on electrical wires, on the loft, in tree's. They pickup all kinds of unwanted habits and besides that hawks will just pick them off one at a time. When they come in from a race you want them to trap right away, not sit around outside. But back to the question, I do my first toss at 1 mile.
> 
> Merry Christmas


I agree! Gives them too much time to get into trouble. Occasionally I will give them an open loft, but when I do, it's usually after I give them a bath and regardless, I don't let them have food until I call them to trap.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

toilco said:


> the truth is i release 2young birds yesterday, they are brother and sister both age 1 month and 24 days old, the male lost while its sister was able to find its way home but it took her 3.5 hours lol, when they are 1 month old, i already notice that the female is smarter than his brother, at 1 month old she don't want to feed on her parents anymore, she's not afraid to go out and observe its surroundings, she's very independent, she eat on her own, she is easy to teach, she is not afraid to be touch and not trembling while his brother the opposite, they are just like their parents, their father is very wild and always trembling while their mother is very tame, so i believe training young bird at 9 miles and longer is very good for culling the inferior one, i feel like im in the right tract going to the next level.


There are obviously different ways of training. Based on what you have posted you didn't take into your equation about varying maturity of birds. If you toss birds that mature late it might get lost. The female seems to have matured earlier so it ended up at your place. So releasing birds at 9 miles or longer may not be necessarily a good thing to do. You are culling age maturity difference not necessarily on performance. What I am implying is that you may be culling too early. I would go for 3 months old and the birds are already ranging out for 1 hour. Once they do that and if pigeons can do 40 miles/hour, they should be able to cover 20-40 miles toss fitness wise. Then you really are culling because you know that the birds have the fitness, but they don't have homing ability if they get lost.

Also what you are describing in your training is what we call open loft system where you just let your birds come and go. If we do that here in America, hawks and falcons will mess them up rather fast. I must admit that I give my birds open loft about 1-2 hours supervised.


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## macka (Oct 26, 2008)

On the Sexing of the Pigeons,I use a Fridge Magnet,cut in half & a hole one end & a point the other.I tye a bit of heavy cotten through the hole.I ring the hen with even numbers & cocks odd numbers & my succes rate is pritty good.


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## rackerman (Jul 29, 2009)

macka said:


> On the Sexing of the Pigeons,I use a Fridge Magnet,cut in half & a hole one end & a point the other.I tye a bit of heavy cotten through the hole.I ring the hen with even numbers & cocks odd numbers & my succes rate is pritty good.


I don't understand how your saying this............


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I'm guessing its a homemade pendelum type system, where it sways one way for cocks, and another for hens. Never worked 100% for me. Easier to just wait and let them tell me.
I also band my "hens" with evens and "cocks" with odd  Based on the biggest and smallest baby in the loft. Obviously it doesn't always work, haha. But at least then when racing comes I can say "that runt baby sure did whoop the big fat one!" 
Most of the time they are the same size so I have to guess


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## macka (Oct 26, 2008)

MaryOfExeter said:


> I'm guessing its a homemade pendelum type system, where it sways one way for cocks, and another for hens. Never worked 100% for me. Easier to just wait and let them tell me.
> I also band my "hens" with evens and "cocks" with odd  Based on the biggest and smallest baby in the loft. Obviously it doesn't always work, haha. But at least then when racing comes I can say "that runt baby sure did whoop the big fat one!"
> Most of the time they are the same size so I have to guess


Thats it in a nut shell,side to side is a hen & back & ford is the cock,some people
are not able to do it,it is the electisty in your body,I can devine for water as well.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

What if it didn't move?


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*Why are you in a big hurry old bird racing is months away and if you live in the north your racing season would start late March or early April. Are your birds tripping, or are they rooftop homers most birds that have free loft are just that rooftop homers. I have a question for you all ,"DOES THE BIRD KNOW ITS IN A RACE", think about that.* GEORGE


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

klondike goldie said:


> No the bird doesn't know that it is in a race, that's why they have to be taught good habits. You have to keep them super healthy, in good shape,get them into the habit of traping fast, and motivated to have a reason to come home fast. from the first time you take them out they need to be hungry and motivated to rush back to the loft to eat, same thing with traping, encourage them to trap fast. after a while it becomes second nature or habit to them...from that point on they forget that you encouraged them to rush home and rush in the trap...when it's habit then they think it's their idea. Every time you go to the loft you have to either be training or re-enforcing something you already taught them.JMT on training


*Very good I agree with you and the key word here is motivated,which is something that many new to racing do not learn and thus their birds fail to preform on race day*GEORGE


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## hasseian_313 (Oct 31, 2009)

i heard birds can see the home from 10 ground miles id waite longet than 2 months of age but if you have it flying around for to months thats a diffrent story than he train it


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

They can see a long way, probably a lot farther than 10 miles.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

MaryOfExeter said:


> I'm guessing its a homemade pendelum type system, where it sways one way for cocks, and another for hens. Never worked 100% for me. Easier to just wait and let them tell me.
> I also band my "hens" with evens and "cocks" with odd  Based on the biggest and smallest baby in the loft. Obviously it doesn't always work, haha. But at least then when racing comes I can say "that runt baby sure did whoop the big fat one!"
> Most of the time they are the same size so I have to guess


I've found that the "pendulum method" is very reliable. My results are very consistent - right 50% of the time and wrong 50% of the time. 

Also, I have dowsed for water in the past. I was able to find water the very first time I tried. Of course, it was on Cape Cod, Massachusetts, the entirety of which sits on a giant aquifer.


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