# Another Pigeon with a Damaged Wing...HELP



## Anton (Apr 4, 2007)

Hello Folks,

Another pigeon with a damaged wing. This one seems to have happened within the last hour. As you see in the picture the left wing is badly damaged. What should I do?
I’m stuck here at work for the next nine hours.


----------



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

This wing looks pretty bad and there is not much you can do. My guess is it will need to be amputated. 
For the next nine hours, all you can do is check for bleeding. If he is loosing blood, try compression of the wound or flour on the wound. Make sure he is drinking. Food wouldn't be a priority right now.
And keep him warm with warm water bottles.

Reti


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Tell you what--take some masking tape and run it around the tail and the wing tip feathers on both sides after aligning the bad wing tip with the good wing tip, front to back. Make the masking tape loop about 1 1/2 to 2 inches back from the tip of the tail. 

Try to keep the tape on and in place for at least a week.

Pidgey


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Any idea what did that... car collision or something chewing on him? I can't tell but it looks like it's the portion of the wing that would be equivalent to the hand in us. Depending on whether the feathers are just blown out (off; gone) and if it's broken and messy but otherwise intact, it could have a better outcome after a couple of months. That's what I'd be hoping (and there might not be any cause for hope as it may be too messed up but can't tell for sure from the picture).

I'd also consider getting the bird on a Clavamox (Amoxicillin + Clavulanic Acid) or, barring that, Amoxicillin, in case it's from being mauled by an animal (unless we're sure it's a car wreck).

Pidgey


----------



## Anton (Apr 4, 2007)

There's no bleeding. I'm worried that the tape will get stuck to the feathers and would be hard to remove later.
The pigeon was brought to me by a custodian and he didn't know how this have happened.


----------



## Anton (Apr 4, 2007)

I was trying to hold the pigeon to check on the wing but it fought me hard and as a result the wing bled again. The wing actually moved. All the feather are gone from the wing, except the longest at the end. I finally managed to wrap a masking tape around the wings, as you have suggested, and put ground coffee on the cut to stop the bleeding; a trick I learned from mother when I was a kid.


----------



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Were you able to take a look at the wound and the wing?
To me it looks as the wing is displaced from the wound down.
I didn't know ground coffee works to stop the bleeding.

Reti


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

In a case like that, worrying about getting the tape off isn't important--you'd rather it stayed on. However, when the time comes, you don't pull the tape away from the feathers--you hold the tape and pull the feathers away from the tape, bit by bit. That works pretty well.

Anyhow, that's to immobilize the wing and keep it in somewhat of the right place. It'll keep the dragging feather(s) from hanging on stuff and getting the wing twisted around.

From the picture, it's difficult to get a read on the shoulder itself as that portion is kinda' hidden under the neck feathers. If the forward curvature of the wings (which are actually to the wrists in us) are still symmetrical, then that would be a good thing. You can study the skeleton here:

http://people.eku.edu/ritchisong/skeleton.html

...and maybe that will help you to determine what all parts and pieces are damaged.

Pidgey


----------



## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Pidgey said:


> Tell you what--take some masking tape and run it around the tail and the wing tip feathers on both sides after aligning the bad wing tip with the good wing tip, front to back. Make the masking tape loop about 1 1/2 to 2 inches back from the tip of the tail.
> 
> Try to keep the tape on and in place for at least a week.
> 
> Pidgey


Pidgey, question for you, please. Have you ever tried that blue painter's tape or is that not sticky enough to do the job? Just wondering. If the blue tape works, maybe it would be easier on the bird when the time came for removal.


----------



## Anton (Apr 4, 2007)

*Injured Pigeon Update*

Pigeon seems stable at the time. I surrounded it with warm water bottles. The pigeon is pretty strong; I think it'll survive.


----------



## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Anton, I hope things go well with your new rescue and thank you so much for helping it out.

I had never heard of using coffee grounds to stop bleeding and out of curiosity I "googled" and found the following interesting link. The coffee ground part is near the end and it seems there are lots of different ways to help stop bleeding. 

I appreciate the tip because I have one bird that seems to get in trouble from time to time and breaks a blood feather and now I have a new remedy.

http://www.otan.dni.us/webfarm/emailproject/bleeding.html


----------



## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Anton said:


> Pigeon seems stable at the time. I surrounded it with warm water bottles. The pigeon is pretty strong; I think it'll survive.


So you used pigeon tape? 

I really hope this pidgie makes a full recovery. Thoughts and prayers for this one.


----------



## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Lady Tarheel said:


> http://www.otan.dni.us/webfarm/emailproject/bleeding.html


Thanks for the link. I'll definitely keep the spider web one in mind as I seem to always have more than enough webs in my house!


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

No, I've never used the blue tape but that's just because I never tried it. It's duct tape in the picture and that stuff's stickier still. But, pulling individual feathers away from tape a bit at a time isn't difficult, just time consuming. This one will be pretty lucky if that one feather (that's left) doesn't pull out before this is over with.

Pidgey


----------



## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Thanks, Pidgey, that's what I thought about the masking tape.


----------



## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Anton,

Do you have access to an Avian Vet or rehabber...whenever possible...to check out that wing? 

Sure looks nasty. Almost looks like a "mauling!"

Wish you and your pigeon all the best!

Shi


----------



## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Removing sticky tape*

*Maggie*,

Thanks for the link to bleeding first aid tips. I have bookmarked it. it mentions spider-webs, which I think I read about in _National Geographic_ many years ago, but hadn't seen since, so I was beginning to doubt and didn't want to pass on mis-information.

*Anton*, 

I went to a German _Apotheke_ (pharmacy or apothecary) a few weeks ago to see if they stocked low-adhesive or veterinarian's tape for later easy removal. No problemo (_kein Problem_)! They carried two widths of silk tape (in 5-meter rolls) for a couple of dollars, and I now have some in my first aid kit. (I actually had some before, but was unaware that vets also used it on their furred and feathered patients. Good to have some on hand (for humans also). 

Before you attempt to remove the tape from the bird, you might see if some household chemical (fumes not dangerous to birds, of course) would lessen the tenacity or stickiness or adhesiveness of the tape.

I am thinking along the lines of acetone (fingernail polish remover). Fumes are dangerous, should be used in well-ventilated place, with forced ventilation if possible. Also it seems, if I recall correctly, that duct tape refused to stick for me if it was wet, or if soapy dish detergent water was in the way of what I was trying to tape. 

Another topic: I think our pigeon *Osk-gurr*, with paralyzed right wing, may recover use of his wing. My wife Hilde reported progress during wing therapy last Sunday; I had some doubts, but verified increased wing motility this afternoon. Need to make short video clip, and post to original thread, maybe tomorrow.

Hope your pigeon recovers. I mentioned Osk-gurr because she showed no significant, noticeable improvement or change from paralysis for many weeks. Don't give up hope on your pigeon!

Larry


----------



## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Adhesive tape removal*

Anton, 

Found this on the web:

http://www.kk.org/cooltools/archives/001194.php 

Un-Du * Grip Solvent
Adhesive Remover 



> This stuff is incredible. It essentially undoes any sticky sticker from any surface, and then totally evaporates leaving no mark. As an art teacher, I'd find that masking tape, for example, when left too long on the back of a displayed piece of artwork, was impossible to remove. Un-Du released its stickiness, and AMAZINGLY, after a few moments of evaporation, the masking tape reverts to it's original sticky state. The original ad for it demonstrated removing a piece of duct tape from a piece of toilet paper. BOTH were intact after a few seconds of application.
> 
> -- Duffy Franco
> 
> ...


and a reply: 



> Un-du is nice but it's way overpriced. I buy the same thing but a quart at a time. It's called Grip Solvent and it's for regripping golf clubs. $5.69 for a quart instead of $9 for an ounce.
> 
> -- Rob
> 
> ...


If you think you might have trouble removing the tape without causing the pigeon pain, he might appreciate your spending some money on him. 

_Added later:_ another web-site says both products have identical ingredients. Need to be careful with solvent fumes. Maybe lighter fluid works also.

Another lady says that Grip Solvent is not a substitute for Un-Du: 
http://www.amazon.com/Grip-Solvent-1-Quart-160/dp/B0000BYNVS
March 24, 2007
By Carolyn Fritschle "booksfromboise" (Boise, Idaho) 



> This is a fine product for the purpose it was designed for, but it is sometimes suggested as a substitute for UnDu, to remove labels from used books. Beware! UnDu (also sold as Crafters Solution) is great for books because it evaporates completely. You can pour it directly on pages and minutes later there's no mark. Grip Solvent only works on a non-porous surface. It is oily. It dissolves adhesive just fine, but if it gets on a page, dust jacket, or porous cover, it leaves an oily stain, ruining the book. Be careful!


I don't have experience using solvents or dangerous fumes around birds. Birds are more susceptible to the small amounts evaporating when I would use them. Therefore I would try to use a fan to blow the fumes away. Forced ventilation might also speed up evaporation of highly volatile or easily-evaporating solvents. I would rely on the general consensus of the members of PT more than the advice of any one individual (such as myself) regarding the use of solvents around a bird, with the exception of advice from a veterinarian or from the more experienced bird rehabbers. 

Larry


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Detachol also works well for getting sticky things off birds and safely. It should work well to loosen adhesive tape.

Terry


----------



## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt...lights+breed+origin&ei=UTF-8&fr=sbc-web&x=wrt

http://aav.org/vet-lookup/locate-vet2.php?query_field=state&search_string=CA

Above are a couple of links that you can take a look at and see if there is a vet
nearby you who will treat pigeons/wildlife. You may need to sign the bird over,
but if you ask first what the policy is on a bird if not releasable then you can 
choose not to take the bird there if they tell you they will euthanize. It varies from practice to practice but Certified Avian Vets will many times treat ferals
for no cost.

fp


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Anton is close enough to me to bring the bird here if need be, and I can have Dr. Lee have a look if necessary.

Terry


----------



## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

How is the bird doing this morning Anton?

Cindy


----------



## Anton (Apr 4, 2007)

*Pigeon is Fine*

Hello Folks,

Thanks for your concern and feedback. Everyone has been very helpful. The bird is in good health and when I took it home, it started eating and drinking immediately. I will take a closer look at him (I think it's male) this weekend and I may bring it to you Terry as you have offered; I already have two non-flying pigeons and a dove inside my house  
By the way Terry, your pigeon has laid two eggs  and they're due to hatch in 1 week.

Anton


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Anton said:


> Hello Folks,
> 
> Thanks for your concern and feedback. Everyone has been very helpful. The bird is in good health and when I took it home, it started eating and drinking immediately. I will take a closer look at him (I think it's male) this weekend and I may bring it to you Terry as you have offered; I already have two non-flying pigeons and a dove inside my house
> By the way Terry, your pigeon has laid two eggs  and they're due to hatch in 1 week.
> ...


Hi Anton,

I'm glad the new injured pigeon is doing well. It's welcome here if you need to find a home for it.

That's eggciting news about the eggs! Those should be pretty babies. Pictures of the little ones will be appreciated  

Terry


----------



## Anton (Apr 4, 2007)

*Sad Ending*

Hello Folks,

I took the pigeon to a vet after I noticed that the wing got infected; it smelled bad. The vet told me that the bones were exposed and he had to amputate the wing. They put the pigeon under anesthesia, cut the wing off, but the pigeon never woke up again


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

I'm so sorry for the loss of this injured pigeon, Anton. Thank you, though, for getting it the veterinary care needed. It kind of looks like you are a regular pigeon magnet, and as such, you might want to consider putting together a pigeon medicine chest so you will have at least some of the commonly needed drugs and supplies at hand.

Terry


----------



## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Anton, anesthesia is always risky and my vet will never give guarantees that they will wake up. But, the thing to remember is that you did everything you could to help it. I am very sorry it didn't live.


----------



## Anton (Apr 4, 2007)

*Anesthesia*



Lady Tarheel said:


> Anton, anesthesia is always risky and my vet will never give guarantees that they will wake up. But, the thing to remember is that you did everything you could to help it. I am very sorry it didn't live.


The vet told me that birds especially are notorious in regards to anesthesia; some don't wake up after being exposed to it. 

Anton


----------



## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

Anton,

I'm sorry the pigeon didn't make it. I was so hoping that it would, after seeing your first posted picture with the badly-damaged wing.

I've always been curious about using *maggots* (as mini-tools) to eat away necrotic tissue in a difficult-to-clean wound. I have read that some prople raise flies in sterile conditions (don't ask me for details on how they accomplish this) so they have sterlle or clean maggots for the job. (I guess they may use a piece of meat that they let rot, which didn't come from an infected or diseased animal). Trick would be to get the bird to leave them alone. Some people say they tickle a bit. The maggots don't bother with the healthy tissue.

The Arabs used maggots for wound cleaning during the (European) Middle Ages, with good results. 

Larry


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

It depends a lot on the anesthetist as well. If they used Forane (Isofluorane) then it should have been pretty easy but it's an art--you really don't want the bird going too far under and it's best to keep adjusting the flow downward so that the bird is almost, but not quite, coming back awake.

Were you ever able to get an antibiotic for the bird?

Pidgey


----------



## Anton (Apr 4, 2007)

As the vet told me, he put the bird in a chamber that has anesthetic vapor; I don't know any other particulars. I didn't give the bird any antibiotic. After I covered the wound with ground coffee, I was not able to see the condition of the wing which was covered then with a mixture of dried blood and ground coffee. I tried to wash the wing at some point, but the poor guy started moving violently and I immediately stopped. According the the vet the bones were exposed and I don't know if the antibiotic could have saved him.


----------



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I am so sorry. 
Thank you for helping him.

Reti


----------

