# Eye problem 12 day old squab



## Comriest (May 16, 2011)

Hi guys. Im wondering if somebody could help with a problem i've developed with a 12 day old squab. 

I first notcied a swollen and closed eye 2 days ago with this poor little mite + watery discharge but only on its right side. My husband, being an optician gave me some Chloramphenical eye drops which we have been administering with little improvemment. Sadly today it's eye has started to produce watery blood and also from the one nostril. I have now removed it from the nest and it's happy to be hand fed and watered plus is prening and seeming happy enough in itself. The dropping are solid and of normal colour. I am taking it to the vets tonight but am looking for any suggestions beforehand so I can help with any suggested treatment. Both parents and its nestmate areare showing no symptoms.

My dad has been a pigeon keeper his whole life and has never come across this before?? I wont let the little guy suffer by equally I would like to give it every chance.

Any suggestions or advice will be most appreciated.

Many thanks


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Can you post a picture of the eye from the side view, not the frontal view of the baby?

Have any other pigeons possibly attacked the baby? posible injury?

Normally I would guess it's a one eye-cold/infection/respiratory, but without seeing it and if your dad has had pigeons for years he would know what it looks like, it's doubtful.

Your best bet would be to take the baby to a good avian vet and have him/her look at the eye as you have mentioned and get him on treatment.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I am glad you're taking him to a vet. Bloody secretion is not good. Could be from an injury or severe infection.
Until you get him to the vet keep the eye dry by wiping the secretions off with a warm moist cloth.

Reti


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Im thinking it may need to be treated for canker...here is a symptom checker for you to go over.

http://www.chevita.com/en/pigeons/symptoms/index.php


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## Comriest (May 16, 2011)

*more pics*

Thanks for the comments guys. I have uploaded 2 more pics, one of the eye and one from above to show the swelling. The eye is definately there and appears undamaged. Yesterday the secretions were clear but when I went out to the loft this morning the blood was there :-( It is possible that it has been pecked by its parents or its nest mate due to it's bad eye. I have brought him into work so I can care for him and the blood has reduced throughout the morning. He really is full of life and seems quite happy in himself. I have seen "one eyed cold" and respiratory problems in our race loft last year and this is very different. The little one has been wheazing a little today but I think this is coming from the slightly blocked nostril. The throat appears clear and pink. I have asked to see a vet tonight which has experience with birds as our nearest avain vet is some distance away. Just really need a slight advantage when they start talking about how to treat.

Many thanks again.


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## Comriest (May 16, 2011)

Also should mention that when I rung the little fella at 7 days old there was no problem and all was normal.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

That looks like it hurts !!!!..definitely needs to get to an avian vet and please DO ask to check for canker.

Do you see anything down the bay's throat, anything that is not pink, more like yellow or white?


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## Comriest (May 16, 2011)

I have just tried to have a look and from nowhere there as a big red clump, not sure if its a big clot of blood in his mouth on the upper beak between the folds! now im panicking and not sure what to do??? its hanging down into the mouth. It wasnn't there this morning whilst feeding :-( cant see anything else atm as he's fighting me to get his beak open.


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## Comriest (May 16, 2011)

Well husband to the rescue! He's just got a congealed clot of old blood out from where it was hanging down that was twice the size of the cotton bud head. Now mouth clear and clean and under magnication troat and mouth clear of anything different. Little one seems a little more comfortable now.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

He needs meds ASAP.. this may be canker which can be fatal.. please take him to the vet, if you can not do that..then someone else can guide you to meds to get at a fish store that could be used for this.. he may need two types of meds.. canker med and an antibiotic.. this needs meds now.


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## Comriest (May 16, 2011)

We have an appointment in 50 mins time to take him, i've been worried sick all day but had to be at work. I shall let you all know later how we get on but im certainly suggesting canker to the vet and see what happens. 

Thanks again


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## Comriest (May 16, 2011)

Well just returned from the vets. The little one has had an immediate antibiotic injection and been given a course of Baytril and Flagyl (an anti-fungal) just given the first dose of each and some water now the little one is wrapped up warm and resting. I will keep you all updated as your info has been most helpful and it was good to give the vet some info from knowledgeable people. Apparently it's weight is normal but it survival is in the hands of the gods now and his condition now is nowhere good as a few hours ago, sadly :-(


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Did the vet give you a definite diagnosis?

I pray the little guy makes it, thank you for the update...please continue to do so.


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## Comriest (May 16, 2011)

No she didn't give a definate diagnosis but jumped upon the canker suggestion. I'm afraid sadly most regular vets don't have huge avian experience and our nearest avian vet is too far away :-( 

Hence why I was keen to get some opinions from here and umbilical canker certainly fits the bill. The only other opinion she did give is that it could just be a genetic defect.


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## Comriest (May 16, 2011)

Well the little one made it through the night! I spent hours with him last night as he was losing blood through his nostril and underside of beak :-( I cleaned out umpteen clots that were hindering his breathing. Persistence paid off as after several hours of non-stop care and warming him up on a luke warm hot water bottle the bleeding stopped just before bed (reckon the meds had kicked in properly) I put his nestbowl back in the box on top of a new mid heat hot water bottle and wrapped him up a little and said my goodbyes fearing the worst :-(( anyway came down in the middle of the night and little fella fighting like a trooper and airways blood free! I re-did the hot water bottle and this morning he's full of life and had got out of his nest bowl in the night and was nesting on the barely warm hot water bottle! Bathed the eye this morning and I feel it looks less red and he was fighting me all the way!!

I have more hope today and will continue to update you all


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I'm SO glad to hear the encouraging news....I do know what it is like to say goodnight..and not know whether they will be alive to see another day. It's nerve wracking.

Sounds like he really appreciated the warm hot water bottle. Keep up the good work and continue to update.

Have you considered treating the parents and the rest of the flock? Canker is very contagious and deadly.


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## Comriest (May 16, 2011)

Yes I have ordered some Harkers Spartrix tablets this morning and will be treating the whole shed as soon as they arrive! I had a good look at both parents + the nestmate last night and can't see anything of concern, but like you say, far better to treat just incase. I shall keep updates on the little one (now named Tiger!) and post a "today" pic in a min so you can see the improvement from yesterday 

Thanks again for your help and concern


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## Comriest (May 16, 2011)

Yesterdays picture again + today's updated one!


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Your baby is looking so much better!


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## Comriest (May 16, 2011)

Thank you! I'm so pleased!


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## Comriest (May 16, 2011)

*Update on little Tiger the Squab*

Well the difference is like light and day! Came down the first time since before the infection to a fully opened eye this morning 

He was the star of the show at the vets for a check up yestreday! Put on 10grams in weight in a day and a half and has responded like a tropper to the meds. He's now on Flagyl twice daily which has had the impact seen in the pics. Now sitting in his bowl at work with me and "charming" all the girls in the office with his antics! 

A true case for never giving up! Will be a pet for life, hopefully!


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

He does look SO much better and I'm sure he feels much better!!!! Does he have sight in that eye?

I'm glad he is a celebrity and charming all the ladies, he will make a wonderful pet.

Please continue to update.

Thank you.


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## Comriest (May 16, 2011)

Yes he has sight in the eye, thankfully! 

Just put some feed in front of the little one and now trying to feed himself so all is so good 

Will certainly keep updates on here but the future looks very bright indeed! Shall hopefully be joining my little bunch of youngsters in the loft within 10 days or so


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

The eye looks wonderful. You did an amazing job with this baby. I am so glad it all worked out.

Reti


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## Comriest (May 16, 2011)

*Day 6 of meds update*

I'm still smiling about how well this little one has fought back, not totally there yet but shouldn't be long! The 3 pic is from last night when I took her out to the loft for a quick check for size against her nestmate (on the left) and it's looking good  they will hopefully be reunited next weekend.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

The baby's eye is looking SO much better and you can just barely see the difference between him and the nest mate.

How long ill he be on the canker meds?

Keep up the good work and do update again!!!

Thank you!


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## Comriest (May 16, 2011)

I have another 5-6 days worth of medication left and there is still a little watering to the eye. There is also some what looks similar to yellow bruising between the top of the beak and eye which still needs to go. I think I've just got to keep going til the little one's 100% as we come too far now, i'd be heartbroken if anything happened!!


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Comriest said:


> I have another 5-6 days worth of medication left and there is still a little watering to the eye. There is also some what looks similar to yellow bruising between the top of the beak and eye which still needs to go. *I think I've just got to keep going til the little one's 100% as we come too far now, i'd be heartbroken if anything happened!!*




I agree, I would keep him inside until he is completely healed and done with meds, but he should have day visits with sibling. 

Does he have another vet appointment?


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## Comriest (May 16, 2011)

He doesn't have another appointment yet but I will most certainly be taking him back if I feel its necessary! Weight has gone up from 200g on Mon to 300g yesterday  

And I agree about the daily sibling meetings, it's so cute )


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Comriest said:


> And I agree about the daily sibling meetings, it's so cute )


They are adorable. You can put a small spill proof bowl of seeds in their little meeting spot, and also some water. They are at the age when they are curious and will soon be weaning and this could be quality time for the both to start learning to drink and eat. I caught a couple of my babies actually trying to take a bath in their drinking water....too cute!


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## Comriest (May 16, 2011)

That's a good thought, may have to give that a go! I have been trying to encourage my little one to feed itself and he will peck at the seeds and try to pick them up but hasn't quite got it yet! I'm hoping this one will show its nest mate the way!


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## Comriest (May 16, 2011)

*Help needed on this case again guys :-(*

The saga continues.......

Well as you all know this little fella had a terrible infection and I nursed and recovered to the point she was well enough to go out in the loft. The swelling above the nostril had completely gone, the eye was fully opened and non-watery. I carried on the meds for another 3 days then stopped. She is now 7 weeks old has grown to 325 grams (she was always small) 

All was well for the first five days then I noticed the watering had come back in the same eye plus a slight swelling where it was before :-( I put her straight back on the meds again, Baytril and Fagyl as I had some left over. She had already had half a Spartrix tab. An improvement was shown but last week I had to take her back to the vets as I was nearly out of meds.

The vet diagnosed "deep routed" sinus infection and recommended a two week course of Baytril and stopping the Flagyl. Well since then it's not improving at all. I brought her in to the house the other night to administer meds and after a little while she was shaking quite a bit of clearish hard mucous out of the nostril and the eye was running badly. All on her right side as before. I have no pics with me today but can post some later. In desperation I have also started giving drops for one eyed cold as i'm at a loss as what else to do. She is clearly light sensitive as she squints at the light when in the aviary. Also she spends alot of time in the aviary with that eye away from the sun. I think she's out there looking and waiting for me :-( I spend as much time as possible with her and she comes in the house every day for a "quick" bit of us time. 

She is happy, eating and growing and full of life. I just don't know what to do next..............

Help PLEASE...................


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Comriest, while Baytril is an excellent medicine, there are times it isn't going to be able to solve every infection issue, as the infecting bacteria may not be sensitive to Baytril or only intermediately susceptible. When a bacteria is intermediately susceptible, what you sometimes see in a bird is that it appears to have become well again, then starts to decline again once the meds are stopped, as they were not able to completely clear the infection. When this happens most times starting up the same meds can work by perhaps increasing the dose/frequency, but I have found doing this does not usually work, as the group bacteria that are not sensitive to the treatment medicine have multiplied and the previous medicine will not be able to clear or halt the progression of the infection coming on again.

You can do two things, one is ask that a culture and sensitivity test be done with swabs to the nasal discharge and throat area, and two make a switch in medicine, at this point I myself would be pretty aggressive and treat with Trimethoprim/Sulfa and also with Doxycycline at the same times as well.

Karyn


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## Comriest (May 16, 2011)

Dobato said:


> Comriest, while Baytril is an excellent medicine, there are times it isn't going to be able to solve every infection issue, as the infecting bacteria may not be sensitive to Baytril or only intermediately susceptible. When a bacteria is intermediately susceptible, what you sometimes see in a bird is that it appears to have become well again, then starts to decline again once the meds are stopped, as they were not able to completely clear the infection. When this happens most times starting up the same meds can work by perhaps increasing the dose/frequency, but I have found doing this does not usually work, as the group bacteria that are not sensitive to the treatment medicine have multiplied and the previous medicine will not be able to clear or halt the progression of the infection coming on again.
> 
> You can do two things, one is ask that a culture and sensitivity test be done with swabs to the nasal discharge and throat area, and two make a switch in medicine, at this point I myself would be pretty aggressive and treat with Trimethoprim/Sulfa and also with Doxycycline at the same times as well.
> 
> Karyn


Thank you for your advice, greatly appreciated.

Meena


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## Comriest (May 16, 2011)

This is my poor little baby today :-( Shall be back to the vets ASAP, I cant lose her now not after raising her myself from 12 days.


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## Comriest (May 16, 2011)

Finally cracked it!!! been in the loft 10 days now and no sign of re-development!!

To cut a long story short my little baby finally developed full canker (visible in mouth) at which point a gave a Spartrix and marched back to the vets, guns a blazing!! The vet had refused point blank that this was canker to this point :-(

Another course of Flagyl (on a higher dose twice daily) and Baytril was demanded and given! I gave another Spartrix tab after three days and by the fifth day the Canker had vanished )) Here's a few pics of my now ultra tame Tiger at work and at home on her "perches" for looking out of the window (whilst she was recovering) and a pic after a first bath back in the loft when she decided to drown herself!!

So finally a very happy ending and a vet with her tail well between her legs!!


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Glad you were persistent and fought to get this little one well again, good job and thanks for the update.

Karyn


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## Comriest (May 16, 2011)

Glad to update 

This poor little mite first fell ill on the 16th May and has been to the vets 6 times! It's been a long road, but successful!

I think she has only spent two weeks in the loft since falling ill so she's more domesticated house wise than loft wise! I still can't resist going out of an evening and bringing her in the house for an hour or so..........she does have her nestmate in the loft and they are pretty inseparable which is good. The only dilemma I now have is whether to trap train her and let her out or not??!! Her nestmate is out but i'm petrified that something will happen to her or she will get lost and after all we have been through it would devastate me if the worst happened :-( Decisions, decisions........

Here's a couple more pics 




















Meena


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

I would imagine you do not have to rush things with her, give her time to bond herself well to the loft and go from there. It's aways a good feeing in the end, after a struggle, you manage to bring them back.

Good luck,

Karyn


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