# Mistakes



## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

As racing pigeon lovers, I'd like to pose these two questions to everyone. What were your biggest mistakes early on? What have you done to overcome or learn from them? I'm asking this because I'm sure like many of you, have made countless numbers of mistakes. I just want to hear some of your mistakes so that I won't make the same ones. 

For me, my biggest mistake when I started was collecting birds. Every bird that looked good (color birds) I collected and attempted to win with the kids. Another mistake I made was buying $5 dollar birds and hoping that those birds would produce winners for me. The last mistake I made was buying more expensive birds than turned out to be duds and the subsquent effort to rid of them (because they were in the upwards of $1,000 dollars spent), got to the point that I was holding onto them for too long because of the amount of money I had invested in them.

Please share yours.


----------



## Ed (Sep 18, 2008)

im also starting out in the pigeon hobby and was told by many fanviers NOT to do what you had done 
so far im keeping to that.
I havent paid for any birds
just the shipping price
and I dont want to overload my loft either so Im holding back on grabbing every bird I see


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Kal-El said:


> As racing pigeon lovers, I'd like to pose these two questions to everyone. What were your biggest mistakes early on? What have you done to overcome or learn from them? I'm asking this because I'm sure like many of you, have made countless numbers of mistakes. I just want to hear some of your mistakes so that I won't make the same ones.
> 
> For me, my biggest mistake when I started was collecting birds. Every bird that looked good (color birds) I collected and attempted to win with the kids. Another mistake I made was buying $5 dollar birds and hoping that those birds would produce winners for me. The last mistake I made was buying more expensive birds than turned out to be duds and the subsquent effort to rid of them (because they were in the upwards of $1,000 dollars spent), got to the point that I was holding onto them for too long because of the amount of money I had invested in them.
> 
> Please share yours.


so far my biggest mistake is, was not buliding a bigger loft.


----------



## j_birds (Sep 8, 2008)

spirit wings said:


> so far my biggest mistake is, was not buliding a bigger loft.


Tell me spirit wings. how big is big enough. I never have enough room. I build one and before I can turn around its full. Jim


----------



## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

I never bought any birds (let me take that back I bought some race winners for $5 this year) and have 5 lofts (not enough) lol. So, maybe getting too many. I painted the trap after my yb's were already using it not painted. Big Mistake. Having a large racing loft with very few birds in it. I had about 10 birds in a 8 x 15 and did bad in the races for 3 weeks then added some other birds just to get them motivated and the next weekend 2 top 10 finishes. Not paying atention on race day and missing a bird trap from 250 miles that would have probably been in the top 5. We use old clocks. I held maybe my best sprint hen back from racing most the year cause it was paired to a auction bird and then the action bird never returned from the race. Starting yb season with 23 birds (I should have bred more) I did not take into acount losses before racing even started. Oh, and on that holding birds too long before loft flying them the first time. I could think of more for sure.


----------



## learning (May 19, 2006)

Unfortunately, this one is easy for me. Chasing young birds off the roof of the loft to try to get them to fly. I lost 3/4 of my youngbird team in one day doing this. Never Again.

Dan


----------



## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

When buying pigeons,you should if you can,buy from a well known All-American flyer,who flys in the state where you live,OR from a state that borders your state !!!The reason is,he has a strain that has been developed to race and WIN in the climate of your state`s area...The cost of the birds should be $100 to $150 each for late bred YB`s...You should not have to pay thousands of dollars,unless you are buying one of his top breeding pairs,and not very many top flyers sell their top breeders...But children are usally available...I purchased 3 youngsters from "Patti`s Pride", back in 1984 from Richard Zdan of Patti Loft out of New Jersey..One of the top 5 lofts in that combine...Patti`s Pride won 1st combine @ 100 miles..The next week 1st combine @150 miles,the 3rd week 2nd combine 200 miles...against 3,000 birds each week as a young bird...I paid $500 delivered for the 3 birds...They have and still breed me winners...After all those years,I still get great YB`s from the offspring of the 3 birds I purchased in 1984..MY 2nd place Auction bird this year winning $600.00 is a tripple grandson of one of the 3 YB`s from Patti Loft...YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PAY a whole lot of money to buy GOOD BIRDS...You need to buy from an honest fancier...An All-American flyer will give you good stock to breed from...His reputation is on the line when he sells you pigeons...He wants you to brag about the wins you get with his birds..It makes good advertisement for him to brag on YOU winning with his birds...But the #1 thing which keeps a new flyer on the bottom of the race sheet is...OVER FEEDING THE RACE PIGEONS..You can over feed your stock birds,but never over feed your racing birds !!! That was and still is a bad habit of mine also..And I have been racing since 1984...Do not feel sorry for them...Don`t look into those little eyes crying for more food..They don`t need it !!! Alamo


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Alamo said:


> But the #1 thing which keeps a new flyer on the bottom of the race sheet is...OVER FEEDING THE RACE PIGEONS..You can over feed your stock birds,but never over feed your racing birds !!! That was and still is a bad habit of mine also..And I have been racing since 1984...Do not feel sorry for them...Don`t look into those little eyes crying for more food..They don`t need it !!! Alamo



That's a mistake LOTS of fanciers make......myself included and have been doing since 2002 when I got started racing. I just can't resist those eyes.........
On the other hand..........telling a new fancier to not "over feed" can cause them to "under feed" which is just as bad. 
I'll never forget a new guy in our club, bragging about how his birds (about 40 of them) would come to him in the yard where ever he was and land on him.......well, I knew that wasn't right. You MIGHT get one or two or three that will be friendly, but not ALL of them........we went to his house and I was appalled when I picked up his birds. He was starving them to death almost. If we had been racing, he would have lost them all I'm sure, although if he had showed up with those skinny birds, I would have told him to take them back home.


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

learning said:


> Unfortunately, this one is easy for me. Chasing young birds off the roof of the loft to try to get them to fly. I lost 3/4 of my youngbird team in one day doing this. Never Again.
> 
> Dan


I did something similiar a couple of years ago......birds are out for the first time, just walking around on the landing board and I reached up to pull a feather off of the wire,....startled one bird and it was a domino effect.....they took off like bullets and in no time flat were little specks in the sky. I lost about 20 birds that day I guess. 
You HAVE to be calm, cool and collected around these guys at all times.


----------



## Pegasus (Feb 6, 2007)

*Here's my version:*

Mistakes? wow I had a bunch of those too...

1st of all, I will never buy an expensive bird/s maybe the most I had spent was $300 ($15 - $25 each or pair) for all the breeders I got...

My mistakes; well let me start from training the young birds, back in 2005 when I started, my, *1st* mistake was training young birds inside the garage where my small breeding coop now, (I had my loft on wheels until this mistake happened) come to think of it the YB wanted/excited to fly outside got the opportunity to get out, didn't know where to land or go home to so s/he got lost. *2nd* mistake; Never flag or spook the young birds with an OB outside, terrible mistake I did, thinking I can make the YB fly like the OB, I was kicking my behind after that day...*3rd* left the trap door open, less than 10 mis I came back, I saw a cat climbing out the trap-door I'm glad no bird get eaten...*4th* I almost wiped-out my breeders by using the pesticide called Permectrin II in spray bottle (pure) no mix of water, luckily my neighbor knows something about pesticides and told me to wash them off with water as soon as possible (which I did)... *5th* banding a baby bird, it's *not*  upside down so tried to pull it out then the skin  rips open and bleed a little (didn't use vaseline then) so I leave it alone, washed off the blood then I put medication  whew!...


----------



## Ed (Sep 18, 2008)

I was told that which leg and if its upside down or not was the owners preference. 
is that not true?


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

StoN3d said:


> I was told that which leg and if its upside down or not was the owners preference.
> is that not true?


That's true, although, SOME prefer the band to be upside down so that's it's easier to read when basketing the birds..........but MY opinion.......(I've always got one) is that you have to read the band while holding the bird about 10 times a year. The rest of the time, you're usually looking at the band while the bird is on a perch and it's MUCH easier to read if the numbers aren't upside down and you have to do that 12 months out of the year. LOL........it is up to the fancier though. Long as you get the band on, that's all that matters.


----------



## Ed (Sep 18, 2008)

thats exactly what a couple of the guys in my club said.
they lik to be able to see the numbers when they are standing on the perch.
thats how I plan on banding my birds 
ita hard enough for me to catch them.
im always worried I will gorilla grip a bird and hurt it


----------



## Bezz (Dec 12, 2008)

Lovebirds said:


> That's a mistake LOTS of fanciers make......myself included and have been doing since 2002 when I got started racing. I just can't resist those eyes.........
> On the other hand..........telling a new fancier to not "over feed" can cause them to "under feed" which is just as bad.
> I'll never forget a new guy in our club, bragging about how his birds (about 40 of them) would come to him in the yard where ever he was and land on him.......well, I knew that wasn't right. You MIGHT get one or two or three that will be friendly, but not ALL of them........we went to his house and I was appalled when I picked up his birds. He was starving them to death almost. If we had been racing, he would have lost them all I'm sure, although if he had showed up with those skinny birds, I would have told him to take them back home.


Hi all

I wil be flying my 2nd season in 2009.
What amount of feed per bird is sufficient to not over- nor under feed them?

Regards 
BEZZ


----------



## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

I do mine in the right leg just because that is the way I hold them.


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Bezz said:


> Hi all
> 
> I wil be flying my 2nd season in 2009.
> What amount of feed per bird is sufficient to not over- nor under feed them?
> ...


BEZZ.........I'm probably NOT the one to answer this, because I've already stated that I know I over feed sometimes......however, knowing what you are SUPPOSED to do and doing it is usually two different things. 
A gauge to start with is 1 ounce per bird. 16 birds? 16 ounces. But, there's so many different things that dictate how much to feed. A bunch of birds that are out flying for an hour or two every day, obviously need a little more to eat than a bunch of birds that go fly for 15 minutes and then come back to the loft. 
I personally don't want my birds to appear STARVING.........as long as they listen.....come in when called without too much trouble, then you can assume that you are feeding the correct amount. If they stay out no matter how much you call them, then you're overfeeding and if they stampede each other and walk all over each other to get to the food, IMO, you're not feeding enough. You just sort of have to play with it and go by how you're birds are acting and reacting to you.


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

*Mistakes...I made a few...*



Kal-El said:


> As racing pigeon lovers, I'd like to pose these two questions to everyone. What were your biggest mistakes early on? What have you done to overcome or learn from them? I'm asking this because I'm sure like many of you, have made countless numbers of mistakes. I just want to hear some of your mistakes so that I won't make the same ones.
> 
> For me, my biggest mistake when I started was collecting birds. Every bird that looked good (color birds) I collected and attempted to win with the kids. Another mistake I made was buying $5 dollar birds and hoping that those birds would produce winners for me. The last mistake I made was buying more expensive birds than turned out to be duds and the subsquent effort to rid of them (because they were in the upwards of $1,000 dollars spent), got to the point that I was holding onto them for too long because of the amount of money I had invested in them.
> 
> Please share yours.



Thank you for sharing your experiences. 

I'm not sure what I can contribute to this thread, I am sure the list of what I did wrong, is longer then the list of what I did right. But, since you mentioned something which I think is very important, I would like to expand on it a bit. Because I think your "mistake" in becoming a collector at first, is one that many new people fall into. And I think it may also be fair to say, that many very experienced fanciers fall into the same "trap". One can of course be a collector of $5 pigeons, $50 pigeons, $500 pigeons, $5000 or $50,000 pigeons...the price you paid, may have little or no bearing on a bird's real breeding value.

There are any number of fanciers in the USA which own a "Collection", some of these collections represent an investment in some cases, of six or seven figures. The value of these collections for some, who are merchants, is not measured in the number of races won, but in the revenue earned from selling offspring. 

Looking back, if I had to do it all over again, I still think I had the right general idea. I "Invested" in myself and my hobby, by purchasing a select group of closely related birds from a family of Champions. I figured if some guys who have been successful in their careers, could indulge themselves by spending $65-$75,000 for a corvette (prices are way up since then) or to build a hot rod, one of my friends is building an airplane, then why not go all out, and get something decent. I have not regretted that choice for one moment. Based on what my stock market investments have done lately, my breeding "stock" investments now seem a bit shrewd. 

The "mistake" that I see in other people, is if your total capital investment is "only" say $1,000, then simply buying one unproven offspring from a Champion, is like buying a lottery ticket. And the odds may only be 1 in 10 that it turns out to be a "hit"....then if they don't get immediate results, they attempt to sell the bird, when often in such cases, it is their grandchildren for some unexplained reason, which turn into something worth talking about. This "Skipping a Generation" does occur in race horses also. 

My early "mistakes" in the acquiring of stock, was the over reliance on unproven YB's from commercial breeders. If I can acquire a bird with a pretty pedigree, which may have only done even so so in a series of races, at least I know it can find it's way home. I have paid five figures for birds which have actually competed well in numerous races, which had Champion sires and/or siblings, which may sound like alot, but it was only a small multiple over the prices paid for completely unproven YB's from sometimes very old Champions, from some famous pigeon merchants. 

So, my early ideas of a "Family" were correct, but collecting this family from three different commercial breeders, plus auctions, was not the most efficient way to go. So I then secured a knowledgeable loft manager with fifty years of experience, a mid five figure investment in breeding stock, and we partnered up and went directly to the source in Europe, and also secured "Proven" breeding stock from fanciers in the USA, which did not come cheap, but it was much more efficient then sorting through a collection of this and that.

Unlike some "Big Boy" toys which soon begin to depreciate in value, my "toys" actually generate revenue in cash from race winnings and through the sale of excess racers and breeding stock.

So my "mistake" and my advice to the new guys, is secure a mentor with whom you can build a relationship *first*, and then be willing to invest some money with him, and seek his advice and council. The "right" mentor, is of course the tricky part. I have been fortunate, perhaps luckey, The two mentors in my life, loved pigeons first and foremost, and did not seek to "bleed" me of $$$$, what they did seek, was some immortally through their pigeons. And that could be the topic for a whole new thread.


----------



## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

Bezz....Feeding racing pigeons is an art...There is a very fine line from feeding just the right amount,to over feeding...One of the posts here had it correct..If your birds are flying for say 30 to 45 minutes per day,and the climate/temperature is warm...3/4 to 1 oz per bird will do them fine...Now lets say they are tripping/ranging for 90 minutes or more,then 1 oz to 1 1/2 onces is good..Also the same if the temperature is very cold,even if they are not flying much,you need to feed 1 to 1 1/2 onces for each bird...When racing,as the races get longer,you feed a little more Wed to Sat,if the races are on Sunday...The 1oz amount is the starting piont per bird...You add more only if they are working hard...Or it`s cold as in the winter months...Alot of flyers feed for a certain amount of time...Say 10 minutes...They sit there in the loft and put some feed in the trays...After a few small can amounts are fed,they watch to see if the birds are getting "Picky",and are only eating the favorite grains..If so,they stop feeding...If the birds are still eating the grains they don`t care for,he feeds a little more...Just like children,they eat the peas & spinich,only if they are really starving !!! If not,they push the peas & spinish on the side,or put it in a siblings dish !!! Alamo


----------



## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Biggest mistake would be leaving the loft door open and watching one of my best breeding hens fly away. Always a risk with prisoners. 

Overfeeding youngbirds and watching them sit on the roof and laugh at me. 

Randy


----------



## ezemaxima (Jan 12, 2008)

StoN3d said:


> I was told that which leg and if its upside down or not was the owners preference.
> is that not true?


I'm going with the band right side up while they're on the perch!

My mistakes was banding my birds with home made bands. Now I got some peeps wanting to buy but they want them banded with AU or NPA bands.... Is it too late to order bands for myself from AU (I'm already a member). I want one with my loft name on it?

Second is building my loft but not dividing them into sections. Now I got pairs that I didn't want to pair up. I even got nestmates paired up.

Third is building my loft with partial wired flooring. It takes forever to get them cleaned! I'm going to replace it with wood flooring before dividing my loft into sections.


----------



## Bezz (Dec 12, 2008)

Hi all 

When your birds return from a race,what feed is best to be given? 
A lot of people say a high protein mix,others say a depurative mix and stil others say a fine seed mix. 
What are your opinions? 

Regards 

Bezz


----------



## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

First mistake I made at 12 years old was to chase a young bird from the roof. It took off and never came back again.

Second mistake: Built a loft for a number of birds I currently have than the future numbers which I might have.

Third mistake: Overfeeding. I still haven't learned yet the best gauge. It seems that the weather has influence on the amount of food I need to give to them. Now that it is cold here, they eat more. I overfattened my birds and they almost got caught by a hawk in the air. They can't fly fast when fat!

Fourth mistake: Breeding untested birds!

Mistakes I like to make/have: Buying a $5-10 birds and see what they can do.


----------



## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I'm new to racing but not new to homers. 
Two mistakes come to mind that had a pretty big impact on things.
1) Should have built a better loft. And when I say better, I don't necessarily mean mine is bad. I actually like mine...it's just so hard to clean! I wish the floor was one solid piece of wood instead of several boards that just happen to be a little higher than the next  Completely with many nails to hit when scraping, which beats the crap out of your wrists.
2) Should have bothered my dad about making some flaps to cover the trap doors at night. Nothing ever bothered them, so I guess I took it as nothing's going to figure out to climb up a tree, jump on top of the aviary, and find their way into the loft. I was wrong. My cat got in the loft during the day and killed a few rollers.

I guess another thing to go with the better loft is to make sure the roof stayed on good. Last fall an opossum got in by wedging its way between a loose part of the tin and the wall and killed nearly all my birds. It took us a few days to figure out how he was getting in, but we saw some scratch marks on the wood and found out how. Between the hawks and the opossum, by the end of the week I went from about 20 homers to two pair. A couple of them were so upset from it, when I let them all out, they left and never came back. 
If there's any bright side to that at all, it's that I was forced to find some breeders so I'd have something to fly again. Found some good lookin' ones thanks to Renee  And once I had some actual racing pigeons instead of my 'just plain homers', I decided to jump into racing.
I suppose that's my life story racing-wise


----------



## white flight (Oct 19, 2008)

Hi all!

Feeding is an art! The best gauge is to feed until the first 3 go to drink - we are talking on the short distance 200 -400 miles!

It also depends what you feed? High protein - use a low hand and feed towards the end of the week an increase of carbs with cereals such as corn and barley.

It is a fact that peas increase uric acid levels and therefore must induce thirst.

You can see the amount uric by the white tops on the pigeons droppings.

When the pigeons droppings are round and firm with a wisp of white on top, looking like a "scoop of ice-cream on a cone" - you know you are doing it right. Add to to this down feathers amongst them in abundance - you birds are in peak condition.

Only my observations of birds in performing lofts.

Regards.

white flight ZA


----------



## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

One part about the feeding you have to handle your birds and know what one should feel like. This is the fail safe for me if they start to get light I bump the feed up.


----------



## moonshadow13 (Dec 13, 2008)

My biggest mistake so far was not coming to this site sooner. I have learned more in the last 24 hours just reading old threads than I have in the last 5 months. 
I usually shy away from message or chat boards because there is always so much fighting, but I have to say everyone on here has been wonderful and full of useful information!!


----------



## Ahab (Apr 20, 2008)

My dad bought my birds for me, and they have multipled like crazy so now i have a nice flock of pure white birds. I cant really say what my two biggest mistakes were, but I know a sure way to avoid them is to spend hours and hours reading forums like this one. . theres alot of good ppl out there that know what they're doing, and if you can talk to them you can learn from what they did wrong


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

moonshadow13 said:


> My biggest mistake so far was not coming to this site sooner. I have learned more in the last 24 hours just reading old threads than I have in the last 5 months.
> I usually shy away from message or chat boards because there is always so much fighting, but I have to say everyone on here has been wonderful and full of useful information!!


Welcome aboard, moonshadow13! I'm glad our information here has been helpful to you. The members and moderators here work hard at assuring that this is a friendly and helpful discussion board. We have our moments now and then, but 99.99% of the time this board can't be beat if measured by great members and great information.

Terry


----------



## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

Thank you Warren for a heartfelt post. I'm sure many guys out there share the same story along those lines. 

Having just been into the pigeon game myself for three years, I have found that local guys are reluctant to divulge any secrets because, perhaps it's ego, or the fact that I'm directly competing against that person. 

But in what you were eluding to, sometimes in order to find a mentor, one has to open up his wallet to purchase some of the prospective mentor's birds. It is after the transaction(s) that the mentor shares his knowledge. But I've learned that with local guys, the "knowledge" is selective. 

I would just like to build a good family of birds and perhaps just send them out to money races. That is the goal in mind, but mistakes are made and learned from along the way.


----------



## Big T (Mar 25, 2008)

This is my first year and my two biggest mistakes were having the trap door fall open and losing three of my six new birds. And letting mated pairs out to fly when they had babies. Hawks got one and I lost the babies too.

I hate losing birds.


----------



## white flight (Oct 19, 2008)

Hi there!

Yes, feed a depurative mix BUT give them glucose(dextrose) or honey water for the day.

The following day you may add a bit of protein to the depurative mix to repair worn muscles and then electrolytes in the water. A good bath with open loft so that they can loosen up those stiff muscles also works as the lactic acid build-up from the race can get out of their system. However, do not force them to fly.

On Monday its back to normal!

Thats all!

white flight ZA


----------



## shay_v (Jan 16, 2006)

I would say build a good friendship and relationship among the flyer/handler.......connections go a long way.


----------

