# Opal to opal siblings pairings



## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

I have paired opal lace birds to solid color birds, can you pair the siblings back to the opal lace parent.


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

Best not to mate dominant opal to another dominant opal. It can be done, but the babies that inherit the two copies of opal (one from each parent) do not make it. Love your birds and your loft btw!!


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Yeah, as Chris said don't mate dom opal to dom opal.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

How do I know if the babies are dominent. I don't get all this gene stuff. So I can't mate babies back to the opal parent if it is from a opal and a color parent.


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

You can mate offspring to parent.......just don't mate two opals together. E.g. you could mate an opal son to his non-opal mother. The opal you have is dominant opal. All of your opal birds have only one copy of the opal gene. Dominant opal is lethal (fatal) to any birds that inherit two copies of it............that is why opal is mated to nonopal. The birds that have only one copy of the opal gene are opal and perfectly healthy (obviously). Does that make sens?


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Yes, but keep in mind that 25% of the offspring will inherit a semi-lethal gene and those almost always die very young. But if that is okay with you, then go for it. You'll get many more opals and a few non-opals.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

I got some opal bars from pairings from opal cock to blue bar hen. could I mate that hen back to the father? OK if a bird is opal then don't breed it to an opal, I got that, but if its a solid color you can, even though it had one parent that is opal


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Yeap, if it shows no opal then its not generally going to be an opal so put it back to the opal parent for sure, Just try and limit, if not rule out having opal birds paired to opal birds.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

OK Thanks everyone. I think I got it now. I just have a lot of opals and solids but I really want to put the solids with the solids to get more solids, but I really like the opals too. The problem comes when I pair an opal with a solid I get some solids but a lot of real light birds that aren't good for show birds. I will just have to compromise a little I guess Thanks again.


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## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

MaryOfExeter said:


> Yes, but keep in mind that 25% of the offspring will inherit a semi-lethal gene and those almost always die very young. But if that is okay with you, then go for it. You'll get many more opals and a few non-opals.


Thanks Becky, it's good to see someone apply a logical perspective to the "rules" of pigeon breeding. I've been breeding dom opal to dom opal for many years and have found it to purify the white bar/check pattern. I'm willing to take the 25% production reduction to obtain pure white markings in place of pinkish white.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

I agree tmaas, However I have been told off for reccomending a breeding method that causes death, Its a shame, as its relevant in genetic discussions but seems to rub a few people up the wrong way.

As said above, If possible to limit the pairings then it would make sense for all concerned, Breeders and the pigeons but sometimes, If a certain phenotype is the overall goal then sure, Take the risk.


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## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

NZ Pigeon said:


> I agree tmaas, However I have been told off for reccomending a breeding method that causes death, Its a shame, as its relevant in genetic discussions but seems to rub a few people up the wrong way.
> 
> As said above, If possible to limit the pairings then it would make sense for all concerned, Breeders and the pigeons but sometimes, If a certain phenotype is the overall goal then sure, Take the risk.


And the people getting upset about a breeding program that causes the fatality of some unhatched pigeons are probably the same people who are condoning the abortion of human fetuses!


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

tmaas said:


> Thanks Becky, it's good to see someone apply a logical perspective to the "rules" of pigeon breeding. I've been breeding dom opal to dom opal for many years and have found it to purify the white bar/check pattern. I'm willing to take the 25% production reduction to obtain pure white markings in place of pinkish white.


Yes, quite a few people I have talked to say the best opal expression comes from an opal to opal mating, for some reason. The pictures I have seen, the birds are beautiful. 

It would be nice if one day we could separate the semi-lethal gene from Od. It's possible! But closely linked so it would be a rare event I'm sure.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

Do the babies die in the shell or after they are a few days old? I may experiment with one pair this year. Some of the guys I show with say they do it all the time, but never said how many lived.


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## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

Almost always in the shell.


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

Yes, homozygous opals usually die in the shell, though a small percentage may hatch and die within a couple of days.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

tmaas said:


> And the people getting upset about a breeding program that causes the fatality of some unhatched pigeons are probably the same people who are condoning the abortion of human fetuses!


Lets not go there, But i see your point.


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## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

NZ Pigeon said:


> Lets not go there, But i see your point.


Sorry, I couldn't resist. I agree that its not the proper site for that discussion.


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