# Sour Crop



## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

I noticed that one of my rescue pigeons was retaining water in the Crop and looked a little lethargic. 

I removed him from the loft and isolated him to better assets his condition. 
I checked his Crop and I noticed that he had a few grains and once I gently press on the crop I noticed that water will come out of his beak.
I research online and it seems that his symptoms were similar to Sour Crop. I read that at times the bird will emit a funky odor from the Crop but my bird did not have any nasty odor and had no signs of Canker anywhere in the beak or the visible areas inside.

This bird is a rescue that I found about two years ago walking on the side walk of my neighborhood. He was fighting over food with some wood pigeons and looked unhealthy with a hunched posture and a saggy Crop. I picked him up and brought him home. With love and care he became the boss of the loft and seems very healthy till now... I am not sure how old he is but when I first found him my impression was that he was an old Bird.

Anyways back to the matter at hand… AS per online Instruction I gave him some water with Baking Soda, Some water with apple cider vinegar, I gave him some apple sauce, mineral oil, I gave him some medication for Canker, I gave him some medistatin and he was not getting any better; his crop was full of water and he was resting it on the floor of the cage because the weight was probably bother his back..

I decided to take him to the vet yesterday and he proceeded to perform a Drain and flush on the crop, gave him some injection of B-complex, Dexamethasone, and Iantraconazole and sends him home with Bactrim and Iatraconazole. He told me to feed him soft food for the next couple of days and monitor him… After he got home he pooped for the first time in days but the poops was very green as a sign of malnutrition/starvation and very little but at list if a positive sign because he had not pooped for 3 days because he was not taking any food beyond his crop…

I have posted a copy of the Medical bill for the record and I will love to hear your advice on the matter...

I haveKaytee baby formula and apple sauce I will like to know if this is proper nutrition for the next couple of days. I will hate to give him grains and risks have the grains stock on his Crop again… 

Thanks in advance and all comments are welcome.


I posted this information in my old thread but I felt more people will respond to it if I created a new Thread on the matter and maybe this information can help others in the future.. I hope I don't offend the moderators..


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Hi Joe, 
Nothing to be offended at all. I thought to separate that one but since you aren't a new member, I thought you know everything about how to post and did it deliberately so I didn't do it, but just guided what was better for getting more replies. Thanks for accepting the guidance. 

For sour crop, it is better to feed them on Kaytee with apple sauce to get the crop moving. Adding ACV to drinking water also helps in slow crop. 

For the treatments you have done so far like canker, candida etc. I hope you have completed the full course of medicines to see the results?
Wish your bird recovers soon.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*I would make sure to add the organic ACV, and digestive enzymes.*


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Thanks.. All advice is welcome..


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Hi Joe, 
Keep him warm and separate from the others for now. The Kaytee and applesauce is good, but baby applesauce without all the sugar in regular applesauce would be even better.
I know about high avian vet bills, as I recently received one for over $300 and the poor bird could not be saved. OUCH! I'm glad you brought him to the vet. I don't remember if you crop feed or not. I would feed less and more often for now. Don't want to over work the crop.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Joe, hope the bird does well. Yes, vet bills are expensive. Chloe just cost over $400 today. So I understand how hard it is. Am still paying off Phoebes surgery from months ago. But we love our critters and would likely move into a trailer and eat cat food, to make them happy and healthy.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Sour crop is a term used to describe blocked crop. When a crop gets blocked, the food fermentates and releases gases and foul odour, but in first days there may not by any smell.

The blockage may initially have been caused by different things, like an enteritis (inflamation of small intestine caused by pathogens like coccidia, e. coli etc) which doesn't let bird assimilate solid food. Other causes can be the bird eating too much grit that remains in crop (or / and in gissard - blocked gissard) or ingesting an object that blocks the passage from crop into gissard. Some websites say canker nodules can also block the crop. 

No matter the cause, the blockage usually gets complicated by the food that comes later and quite probably by candida that starts to grow. Sometimes, a ball of food (and other matter found in crop) and candida appears.

The greatest problem in such a situation is the water that accumulates in crop. If the bird has an enteritis, she loses water rapidly and feels the need to drink. In some cases, the water is still able to pass, in other, neither food and water can rfeach the gissard. The problem comes from that the crop filled with water leads to the liquid easily go up in mouth, enter the trachea and suffocate the bird. 

So any pushing of the crop must be prevented, wither caused by your handling, or the bird falling onto his crop etc. The bird must be prevented from filling his crop with water and the excessive water must be extracted with the tube used for crop feeding.

The situation is very serious and you have to act fast, as if candida appears, it grows rapidly. I use to give birds water with lot of acv (1 /10 or more) three times or more / day. The bottom of the crop, just above the edge of chestbone, must be *very gently* massaged as often as possible, in order to disrump the accumulated food and other debris.


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## Whytpigeon (Sep 14, 2015)

Joe Black said:


> I noticed that one of my rescue pigeons was retaining water in the Crop and looked a little lethargic.
> 
> I removed him from the loft and isolated him to better assets his condition.
> I checked his Crop and I noticed that he had a few grains and once I gently press on the crop I noticed that water will come out of his beak.
> ...


Yeasts like and grow on sugar so anything with sugar in it should not be given. I usually use nystatin, which is an anti fugal medication that is used to treat oral and gastrointestinal tract candida. If you already mentioned it in the above sorry, I just skimmed over the post. Iam not a Doctor, just an opinion .

The vet bill seems normal and in order, nothing outrageous . (I'm a private business with in a vet hospital and have been in the past an employee of a vet practice for over 25 years.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Andrei, he is going to give the bird formula. That doesn't need to be massaged, as it won't clump up like seed would do.

And the vet did send him home with an antifungal.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Thanks everyone for your help and support without the advice of Jay and all of you helping my rescues will be an impossible task.
Today Joro looks a lot better than he did yesterday. I fed him Formula together with the medication prescribed by the Vet together with some Vitamins and Boosters I had purchased before.
His crop is not full of water anymore and he is started pooping yesterday a little green but today the dropping look solid and healthier.
I will keep him Isolated for the next couple of day or till his 7 days medication treatment is concluded.
I think after the medication I am going to treat him for Worms and Coxi and I am going to keep on giving them the ACV.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

*AndreiS*

Thank you so much for your advice... I have read your post on the matter and they have helped a lot …
I gave him the Mineral oil and the ACV and I hope that it helps as much as the Doctors crop flush and medication...
Thanks for your contribution.







AndreiS said:


> Sour crop is a term used to describe blocked crop. When a crop gets blocked, the food fermentates and releases gases and foul odour, but in first days there may not by any smell.
> 
> The blockage may initially have been caused by different things, like an enteritis (inflamation of small intestine caused by pathogens like coccidia, e. coli etc) which doesn't let bird assimilate solid food. Other causes can be the bird eating too much grit that remains in crop (or / and in gissard - blocked gissard) or ingesting an object that blocks the passage from crop into gissard. Some websites say canker nodules can also block the crop.
> 
> ...


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Joe, after medicating, I would wait a bit to worm or treat for cocci. Give a few days of probiotics and let him rest. Wormers are toxic and are hard on a bird to begin with. Shouldn't be wormed if not well. Give him a couple of weeks. These meds will be enough for now. Then he needs a break before treating with more.
Also wouldn't give him oil.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Agree with Jay. 
Pls keep us posted on his progress.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Hello everyone,
This morning I checked on Joro to give him his 12 hours medication and I noticed the same problem again.
His crop was full of water; I had left him about two inches of water with ACV on his drinking trade last night and he drank it all. I am not sure anymore if the medication prescribed by the doctor is working or his momentary improvement was as result of the Mineral Oil I was giving and the Batril treatment I was giving him before I took him to the Vet and I was told to discontinued because it could create negative effect with the other medications.
I will monitor him for the next 24 hours and if I noticed the same issue again I am going to take him back to the Vet...


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You can't leave him with water. You need to offer it to him a few times a day. Always offer it after he eats, and maybe in between, but you can't leave it with him as he will fill up on it. Birds with canker will sometimes do that. Also, canker can cause a blockage in the crop so that things don't go through. He probably has canker.
Was there a reason the vet thought he needed an antifungal, but not a canker med?
Did he look at the crop contents under a microscope?


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Joe, hope Joro is all better soon! Did the vet check for an abscess or canker? Our youngster Chloe is being treated for a deep throat abscess and has had droppings and water in her crop like Joro. She is on baytril and metronidazole. Will try kaytee and applesauce with her like you are giving Joro.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

The vet did not test the content of the Crop because I had given the Bird Baytril for three days and he said that it was very likely the antibiotic will cause a possible false result that I needed to wait 7 days before testing. He wanted to charge an extra $100.00 to test the best and send the test to a Lab but he could not warranty the results because of the antibiotic.
He said that Fungal Bacteria causes the bird to drink water excessively.








Jay3 said:


> You can't leave him with water. You need to offer it to him a few times a day. Always offer it after he eats, and maybe in between, but you can't leave it with him as he will fill up on it. Birds with canker will sometimes do that. Also, canker can cause a blockage in the crop so that things don't go through. He probably has canker.
> Was there a reason the vet thought he needed an antifungal, but not a canker med?
> Did he look at the crop contents under a microscope?


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

cwebster said:


> Joe, hope Joro is all better soon! Did the vet check for an abscess or canker? Our youngster Chloe is being treated for a deep throat abscess and has had droppings and water in her crop like Joro. She is on baytril and metronidazole. Will try kaytee and applesauce with her like you are giving Joro.



Sorry about your bird....

No he checked the crop and said that he did not feel any solid masses and that all he felt was fluids...
I have medication on my cabinet and I treated for Canker Metronidazole 100MG 1 tablet for two consecutive days... My concern is if the water is not going down his system the antibiotic is probably staying on his crop.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

I think the Apple sause and Kaytee has kept him alive and he was pooping better for a day but now he is back to retaining water in the crop..

How many times a day are you treating with Baytril and Metronidazole? Was it prescribed by a doctor?





cwebster said:


> Joe, hope Joro is all better soon! Did the vet check for an abscess or canker? Our youngster Chloe is being treated for a deep throat abscess and has had droppings and water in her crop like Joro. She is on baytril and metronidazole. Will try kaytee and applesauce with her like you are giving Joro.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Joe, am giving Chloe Baytril and metronidazole twice per day. Was prescribed by the vet. The culture and sensitivity test was 171! Hope the results come back soon. Tried to get her to eat. She ate five defrosted peas but acted like it hurt. She took about 2 cc of kaytee plus applesauce but I was afraid she was going to aspirate and she was fighting me a lot. Hope Joro is well soon. Am going to call tomorrow and find out if any results are ready. Will also try for a Sat. appt with the vet if she still seems to be hurting and is not eating. Am afraid maybe the abscess could refill with pus? Why is Joro retaining water in the crop? Does he drink a lot? The vet did a crop wash. Don't know if that was to flush food through?


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

I am not sure why he is retaining water on his Crop. The Vet said that fungal infection can cause the bird to drink excessive water but I am not sure why the water is not going down.
Joro did not poop for a couple of days but after I gave him the Mineral Oil he pooped green dropping and then the droppings came more often and with a healthier appearance. The Kaylee and apple sauce is helping and He is looking better and stronger so I think some of the food has to be going down to his stomach but the Water in the crop is concerning.
He is does not get better tomorrow I will take him to another Vet.
Please post the results of the exam to see if I can relate to my Bird...
I hope you bird gets healthy soon, Good luck and thank you.







cwebster said:


> Joe, am giving Chloe Baytril and metronidazole twice per day. Was prescribed by the vet. The culture and sensitivity test was 171! Hope the results come back soon. Tried to get her to eat. She ate five defrosted peas but acted like it hurt. She took about 2 cc of kaytee plus applesauce but I was afraid she was going to aspirate and she was fighting me a lot. Hope Joro is well soon. Am going to call tomorrow and find out if any results are ready. Will also try for a Sat. appt with the vet if she still seems to be hurting and is not eating. Am afraid maybe the abscess could refill with pus? Why is Joro retaining water in the crop? Does he drink a lot? The vet did a crop wash. Don't know if that was to flush food through?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Joe, canker makes a bird drink like that, and either fungal or canker can cause a blockage, which is why nothing is going through. You are giving an antibiotic and a med for fungal (or yeast). That's good, but I would treat for canker at the same time. Won't hurt the bird, and I believe it is canker that is making him sick. I have treated for bacteria and canker at the same time, and also treated with Nystatin, which is for fungal. You would use the fungal med when you use antibiotics, as the antibiotic can cause yeast infection. But you don't give 100 mg of Metro a day. Give 50 once daily.
But you are going to have to get the crop back down. And don't leave him with the water. Just offer it to him, and don't let him over do with it.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Joe, hope Joro is well soon.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Hi Jay thank you for always looking out for me, you are a great person….
I treated him the first day with Metro for two days as the directions on the bottle say.
The pills are 100GM... You are telling me that am better to treat with 50mg for more than two days?
Also, I am concern that if his Crop is not going down because water is not getting into the system if the medication will stay in the Cop and not get into his body!
Not sure if some of the water and Formula is going down even do he pooped for a couple of days…
Not sure what happen but he got better for a couple of days and then back to been sick again…






Jay3 said:


> Joe, canker makes a bird drink like that, and either fungal or canker can cause a blockage, which is why nothing is going through. You are giving an antibiotic and a med for fungal (or yeast). That's good, but I would treat for canker at the same time. Won't hurt the bird, and I believe it is canker that is making him sick. I have treated for bacteria and canker at the same time, and also treated with Nystatin, which is for fungal. You would use the fungal med when you use antibiotics, as the antibiotic can cause yeast infection. But you don't give 100 mg of Metro a day. Give 50 once daily.
> But you are going to have to get the crop back down. And don't leave him with the water. Just offer it to him, and don't let him over do with it.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

cwebster said:


> Joe, hope Joro is well soon.


Thank you. Same with your Chloe....


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Treatment of the Slow Crop

Treatment of the slow crop includes correction of the cause. You will also want to support the bird’s health and digestion with probiotics and vitamins.

Another treatment that has proven effective is the administration of fennel tea. This was first discovered by Dr. Lorenzo Crosti, the veterinary director of the world famous bird breeding facility, Loro Parque. Dr. Crosti used fennel tea with birds exhibiting slow crops but that were otherwise healthy.

You can purchase fennel tea bags from health food stores. Brew the tea according to the directions and add it to the drinker. It smells like licorice. There is no dose ‘requirement’ for the tea. The birds will drink it readily if not mixed too strongly.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

A crop filled with liquid is called SOUR CROP.
squeezing out the liquid can cause the bird to choke and will die of, essentially drowning.

using a crop needle, carefully thread the tube down the throat into the crop and suck out the liquid slowly. Then purchase 2 things, both are easy to find. Activated charcoal capsules and baking soda.

open the charcoal cap. empty one side and fill that side with the baking soda then put the ends back together (So you have a 1/2 black 1/2 white capsule.) wet the capsule in a cup of water(as the gel cap makes it impossible to swallow without it being wet)Give the pigeon 1 cap 2x a day (morning and night)and let him have all the grit and water he wants. if there is more liquid, by the time you need to dose again then suck it out with the crop needle again.
food should be limited to barley only as the fiber will help move the sediment from the charcoal/baking soda, and scrape the crop and intestines of any bacteria or blockages.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I really believe that canker is causing the slow crop Joe. He was only treated for 2 days at high dose. Then you stopped, but the normal dose for an adult pigeon would be 50 mg daily for 7 days. You can do the first dose at 100mg, but then drop it down to 50 mg once daily for the 7 days at least. May take a bit longer though.

Do as the vet has told you with the other meds, but also treat once daily with the 50 mg of Metro. That is the best you can do. I would get the water out and start again. But don't let him drink unsupervised. He will just fill up again. If he can hold out long enough for the Metro to start clearing up the canker, then the crop should start to empty. If the crop doesn't empty at all then I don't know how well the meds are going through his system. Is the vet going to flush it again?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Joe Black said:


> A crop filled with liquid is called SOUR CROP.
> squeezing out the liquid can cause the bird to choke and will die of, essentially drowning.
> 
> using a crop needle, carefully thread the tube down the throat into the crop and suck out the liquid slowly. Then purchase 2 things, both are easy to find. Activated charcoal capsules and baking soda.
> ...


Joe, where are you getting this info?


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Just posting all this information I have on my research to see if it can help other in the future.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

I just followed your advice and game him 1 treatment of Metro at 100MG... I will post an update tomorrow... The Crop is not full water anymore because I have been limiting the water since you have suggested it and feeding him lightly. Tomorrow I will check to make sure his Crop is empty in the morning and I will keep on treating with the Metro and give him small amounts of water... I will also clean his gage and lay the floor with Paper towel to supervise his droppings... I will keep you updated... He does not have a crop full of water because I drained it yesterday.
He has slimmed down because his breast bone is showing a lot more...
Right now I am trying my best and hoping he makes it... If I take him to the Vet again is going to be another 250 dollar bill for nothing…






Jay3 said:


> I really believe that canker is causing the slow crop Joe. He was only treated for 2 days at high dose. Then you stopped, but the normal dose for an adult pigeon would be 50 mg daily for 7 days. You can do the first dose at 100mg, but then drop it down to 50 mg once daily for the 7 days at least. May take a bit longer though.
> 
> Do as the vet has told you with the other meds, but also treat once daily with the 50 mg of Metro. That is the best you can do. I would get the water out and start again. But don't let him drink unsupervised. He will just fill up again. If he can hold out long enough for the Metro to start clearing up the canker, then the crop should start to empty. If the crop doesn't empty at all then I don't know how well the meds are going through his system. Is the vet going to flush it again?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Don't do any of that. You will read a lot online. Not all is good info. It is handy to know how to remove the liquid in the crop, but your vet would have to show you how.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

No problem... I gave him the 100mg of Metro and tomorrow follow up with 50mg for 7 days and evaluate....







Jay3 said:


> Don't do any of that. You will read a lot online. Not all is good info. It is handy to know how to remove the liquid in the crop, but your vet would have to show you how.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Joe, please take good care of Joro. Our vet showed us how to crop feed tonight. Would not try to remove liquid unless a vet demonstrates this as the pigeon mouth is so tiny and the opening for air is so close to the opening for food. We started Chloe on fluconazole as she had new white plaques that under the microscope the vet diagnosed as candida. The gram stain showed gram positive bacteria so we are continuing the baytril and metronidazole. Hope Joro is well soon. Hope Chloe is well soon too as she lost 60 gm in two days.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Thank you so much.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

I check on Joro’s Crop this morning and it was empty. The seeds that he ate yesterday move down to his stomach. I will keep on monitoring his water intake and keep on medicating him...
I will post an update tomorrow.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Glad to hear Joro seems to be moving food out of his crop now. Hope he continues to improve! With great trepidation and anxiety, we did our first liquid crop feeding of Chloe, but she regurgitated a lot. Are you able to weigh Joro to make sure he is getting enough to eat? Is he pooping better? Have read about sour crop and canker and both cause water retention in the crop.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Joe Black said:


> I check on Joro’s Crop this morning and it was empty. The seeds that he ate yesterday move down to his stomach. I will keep on monitoring his water intake and keep on medicating him...
> I will post an update tomorrow.


Is he eating on his own then? Make sure you measure his food so you will know how much he is eating. If not enough, then you should hand feed.
I'm glad it's moving now.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

cwebster said:


> Glad to hear Joro seems to be moving food out of his crop now. Hope he continues to improve! With great trepidation and anxiety, we did our first liquid crop feeding of Chloe, but she regurgitated a lot. Are you able to weigh Joro to make sure he is getting enough to eat? Is he pooping better? Have read about sour crop and canker and both cause water retention in the crop.



When you feed her, put the food in slowly, or it will wash up again. And don't over fill. How much did you give her?

Canker can _cause_ sour crop, as can yeast.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

It’s hard to understand but he is good spirits and he is very hungry. I allowed him to eat today with the rest of the pigeons and he was fighting over food... I picked him up once he had a few seeds and I check his crop so he ate about 15 to 20 seeds. I medicated him and separated him from the rest. Tomorrow I will check to see if the seeds moved down again... 
He has slimmed down a lot and I can feel his chest bone. I am hoping that food will keep on passing through ok and I can increase his intake a little more every day.
One thing that I think has helped him out is the Mineral Oil... It seems that every time I have given to him his crop gets moving…
I am praying that Chloe gets better soon; I understand how difficult and concerning is to have a sick bird.

Mineral Oil
1/10 ASV
Formula
Apple sause a couple of times a day.
100mg of Metro then 50mg per day for 7 days
Limit water intake...





cwebster said:


> Glad to hear Joro seems to be moving food out of his crop now. Hope he continues to improve! With great trepidation and anxiety, we did our first liquid crop feeding of Chloe, but she regurgitated a lot. Are you able to weigh Joro to make sure he is getting enough to eat? Is he pooping better? Have read about sour crop and canker and both cause water retention in the crop.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Joe, how is Joro doing? Hope he is doing better.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Thank you so much for taking the time to ask for Joro. 
He has been doing very well…. I finish the 10 days of baytrill and Metro for 7 days and his health has improved..
He is eating a lot and not holding the seeds in the crop. One issue that has not gone away is too much water in the crop but I come to realize that because his crop is already elongated when he drinks the water tends to accumulate on the bottom and causes the crop to sag in a very unusual way. I been limiting his water intake and has been doing well... I am not sure how old he is but it also can be from old age…. 

Thank you


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Glad to know Joro is doing better. Great job done!


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Thank you Kiddy.. He is doing much better but I don't think he is off the woods...
He still holding water in the crop here and there and I am going to manage his water for the rest of his life... I don’t think it has to do with any sickness but more with the way his Crop is shape, like a hanging bag…. He is eating and drinking fine but not as active as he once was… When he comes down to eat it takes him a little long to fly up to his box on the top of the loft…
He was also the Alpha Pigeon in the loft but he is no Longer the main man…. I hope he can enjoy a healthy life till his time comes...


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Yeah me too hope the same for your birdie. At least he survived with your efforts. Pray he recovers from these aftereffects as well.
Does the vet have any thoughts on him now? Like over water retention? This is quite a problem!


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Glad to hear Joro is doing better. Does the vet have any thoughts on the water retention? Chloe had a candida crop infection but with the fluconazole, it was gone by the time we lost her. Hope Joro gets all better soon!


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Hi, I already gave up on the Vet... every time I visit him the bill gets bigger and bigger and I have a feeling I can do better at home… Joro is doing ok, He eats and Drinks but he is not as active as he once was... I am not sure if is do his age or there is an Illness that still affecting him. I treated him with everything for a few weeks so I am sure there are no Bacteria or Cancer or anything that medication could not remove…
I am limiting his water so that his crop stays normal... I will post a picture in the next couple of days…
Thanks so much…





kiddy said:


> Yeah me too hope the same for your birdie. At least he survived with your efforts. Pray he recovers from these aftereffects as well.
> Does the vet have any thoughts on him now? Like over water retention? This is quite a problem!


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

I am so sorry about Chloe… I have been off the board for a few days and I was not aware that she was no longer with you. I am so sorry…. She is resting now and you have to feel comfort in your heart that you did everything possible to take care of her....
Much love and luck to you.






cwebster said:


> Glad to hear Joro is doing better. Does the vet have any thoughts on the water retention? Chloe had a candida crop infection but with the fluconazole, it was gone by the time we lost her. Hope Joro gets all better soon!


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Joe, glad to hear Joro is getting better! Hope his water retention normalizes too. And thank you for your kind words about Chloe. Her crop had healed but she had aspergillosis and malaria.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Joe Black said:


> Hi, I already gave up on the Vet... every time I visit him the bill gets bigger and bigger and I have a feeling I can do better at home… Joro is doing ok, He eats and Drinks but he is not as active as he once was... I am not sure if is do his age or there is an Illness that still affecting him. I treated him with everything for a few weeks so I am sure there are no Bacteria or Cancer or anything that medication could not remove…
> I am limiting his water so that his crop stays normal... I will post a picture in the next couple of days…
> Thanks so much…


Joe, if he is now well than no need to limit his water. That isn't what caused the problem. After all the meds, he needs a few days of probiotics to put his gut back to normal. The meds kill the bad bacteria, but also kill the good bacteria that he needs to keep him healthy.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Thank you Jay..
Can i use Human probiotic... What are you guys using?

Thanks



Jay3 said:


> Joe, if he is now well than no need to limit his water. That isn't what caused the problem. After all the meds, he needs a few days of probiotics to put his gut back to normal. The meds kill the bad bacteria, but also kill the good bacteria that he needs to keep him healthy.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Pigeon supplies do sell probiotics and giving them once a week would be a good idea. When birds have been on meds for a while, a few days of probiotics are a good idea. 
You can use human probiotics.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Joe Black said:


> Thank you Jay..
> Can i use Human probiotic... What are you guys using?
> 
> Thanks


I'm using human probiotics, giving them daily, with good results. When not giving, it help problem appear.

Some vet probiotics are worse than human probiotics (is the only kind I can get here), if they contain lactose, as this cause diarrhea.


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## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

Thank you guys..


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