# Help - Some problems at the wing



## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

Hello. A pigeon got stuck in a strange way in the window of my home. I managed to get him out but he was a little injured at one wing and one leg cause of the incident. 

He is in my home for 1 day now. The leg has no more problems but the wing is still dragging down a little. He can fly with no problems but the wing is still dragging down a little. I don't think it's broken, I think it's just a muscle rupture or something small. He can fly around like any normal pigeon, appears to have no problems but the wing is still dragging down a little when he sits. 

I'm asking cause the pigeon is very very sad. He stays unmoved if I don't interact with him. He drinks water but has eaten very little. His poop appears to be good and I looked into his mouth and he has no cranken problems. He does not eat because of stress because I had this problem at first with another pigeon I had in my home 1 year ago. 

How long should I keep the pigeon to recover ? Should I let him out despite this little wing problem ? I am afraid he might have a mate that he is missing since he is so sad. It is the end of the winter here so I don't think he has any cubs but I don't know. 

What do you think I should do ?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

He really needs to just rest and not be let to fly for a while. That wing is probably strained or sprained, but won't heal correctly if he is out flying. Actually, it may always come back to bother him anyway. But his best chance would be to let him rest it for a couple of weeks without flying. Can't worry about a mate, as the wing right now is more important. If out in the wild he needs to use the wing, so it won't heal. And it isn't 100%, so he wouldn't be able to evade predators as well either. Don't let him fly for now. Is he in a cage that he can flap his wings if he wants to? Maybe let his out inside room for very short time after a week, just to let him use the wing a bit and see how he does. But not a lot of exercise.
If he doesn't start eating, you may have to hand feed him.


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

Hey Jay  So nice to see you again. Thank you all so much for the help with the other pigeon from 1 year ago. If it wasn't for nice people here taking their time to help pigeons, he would have been dead given the initial problems with the vet: http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f20/help-pidgeon-with-broken-leg-81009-8.html

Speaking of witch, that pigeon is doing fine. A year has passed and he is coming every day at the window. The winter has almost passed so he has also survived the winter. (I still have no idea where pigeons sleep) And as I said, the leg recovered 100% despite been splinted in the 4th day. 

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About the current pigeon: He has started eating a little. And he is not flying around at all so that is not a problem. If I don't approach him he does not try to fly at all. Probably he is not flying around because of the wing not because of been sad. The problem is that 3 days have passed and the wing is not getting better. The wing is still dragging down. Also, I did not take him to the vet so the wing is not wrapped up with anything. 

Should I take him to the vet and wrap the wing with something ? I have not taken him because I do not see how that would help given that the problem is probably at the shoulder. Should I take him anyway and wrap the wing up ? Do you have any idea about this ? I am asking because as my previous problem had shown, vets here don't seem to have too much of a clue when it comes to pigeons


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

There was a local wood pigeon with an injured wing that came to our garden for several years. The right wing feathers dragged on the ground. The part of his wing that was imjured corresponded to the wrist of a human. He could fly without much trouble, but wasn't quite as quick to fly as the others. He seemed to disregard his injuries. (Actually, the pigeon was a female, now that I think of it). She lived the normal life span of a wood pigeon in this area (Antwerp, Belgium), as far as I could tell.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If it isn't broken, but just strained or sprained, then wrapping it a bit so that it is held where it should be held, it would help to not be pulling on the shoulder at least. And maybe it would hurt less if not pulling on the shoulder.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Can you post a photo of the pigeons wing?


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

I went with the pigeon to the vet today. As expected, they did not want to wrap the wing. I tried a lot to convince them, explained them what you guys said but they still did not want to wrap the wing. As the problems with my previous pigeon have shown, over here you can't just go with the pigeon to the vet, pay some money and fix the pigeon. Nope, you need to do very hard convincing work. With last pigeon, I had to cry at the vet to fix the leg. Then, she refused to take the money. I even put the money in the pocket and ran away and she run after me to give them back. Vets here just don't understand free market economy, they work like they are public not private. And these were young vets that I visited today, not old vets indoctrinated by the communist. The good thing is that they verified him and confirmed the wing is not broken. 

So what should I do now ? I've seen there are videos explaining how to wrap it on youtube. Should I try to wrap the wing myself ? About pictures, I will try to post some tomorrow cause now it's dark already. The wing is not touching the ground but it is dragging down. 4 days have passed and it's dragging down just as before. Is it hard to wrap it up myself ? Can I do something wrong ?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

It might be easier just to let him rest the wing. It may always hang lower now. But I wouldn't let him fly for now.


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

I was finally able to take pictures of the wing. He kept flying around and I kept postponing it hoping he will come down from the top of the closet. I've waited so many days but the wing does not seem to heal. 

If you notice in the pictures, the wing is like a little pushed out at the shoulder. Is this cause of inflamation or deformation ? I think it is the second. 

I know the wing is not really in terrible condition since he could fly with no problems just after the injury and since it is not touching the ground. But is there a chance for the wing to heal ? Already a week has passed. Should I still try to wrap the wing using youtube video ? Would that help ?


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

If it is inflammation it would be a good idea to give it a little support for a week or two just to take the weight off of it. I've used the technique in the link below and it worked well. I used the additional support to keep the bandaged wing in place too, not too tight but just a snug wrap. 

http://wildliferehabber.com/rehab-data/wing-fractures


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I did tell you to make him rest the wing and not to let him fly. Yet you have been flying him. If you can't even let him rest it and not fly, then why wrap it now?


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Lovely bird! Thank you for helping him.


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

Thank you for the link but how can I check if it is inflamation or not ? Is there any way to check ?

About flying, no he has not been flying at all. He just sits there and walks around the top of the closet. That is why I could not take picture so long cause I waited for him to somehow come down to the windom because if I try to take picture he just hides around on the closet. He has flapped his wings a couple of times but did not take flight. Speaking of witch, why does he not take flight ? The pigeon with the broken leg was flying around all the time and always came at the window to see other pigeons. This pigeon does not come down at the window during the day at all. Does he too realize he needs to rest the wing ? He does not fly at all if he's not disturbed. 

Also he did something funny today. He never said a thing all this time but today, while sleeping, he starte co-coo-cooing. Can they do that because of a dream or did he want to say something ? He also makes some small noises from time to time during sleep like "uuuu-uuuu-uuu"


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You said he kept flying around. He should have been in a cage and kept quiet. If he isn't flying, it's because the wing is painful. It's either broken or badly injured. It looks awful. Really needs a vet to be sure what's wrong and what he needs. Otherwise it may never heal properly.


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

I said he CAN fly around and does fly if disturbed. For for the last 3 days he was not disturbed and did not fly at all. He just moves around on the closet not fly around the room. 

About the wing. OMG. Are you sure ? He was to the vet and they said it's "definitely not broken" and refused to wrap it despite big argument but as I said vet opinion here worths nothing. You sure it's broken not just muscle rupture ? Should I go to another vet fast ?


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

I just came back from the vet. I went to the second vet that fixed the leg of the previous pigeon. She is also good with pigeons not a random vet like the previus ones. I got her number after phoning the president of the national pigeon asociation when having the problem with the other pigeon. (I didn't know who else to call so got his number from the internet) She checked the pigeon really good not like the previous ones. And she said there is no problem and just leave the pigeon like that. 

But if there is no problem why is the wing like that ???? I do not have 100% confidence because it took a lot of convincing with the other pigeon too. Maybe she referred to the fact that there is no problem with bone, joints or other such things. But why why why is the wing like that in this case ? And what can be done about it ? 7 days have passed and the wing looks the same, it does not appear to improve


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Maybe the vet meant that it wasn't broken. Did you not ask the vet why it is like that and why the bird is not wanting to fly? Your questions are things that you should ask the vet as they are the ones who looked at it and checked it.


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

Yes I told her all about that. About the fact that it's not broken but probably muscle rupture, that it's hanging down etc. I first showed the pictures on my phone to see how he looks when standing. I spoke a lot about him and how you all said to wrap the wing. He simply said nothing just to leave him like that. 

This is why I do not have confidence even in this vet. I will try to find tomorrow another vet. I mean it's clear there is a problem. And in 1 week the wing is still the same. He has been slightly a little more active last 2 days flaping his wings around more but still does not take flight if he is not disturbed. And the wing looks the same as in first day in my opinion.

Should I post more pictures ? The wing is usually kept in 2 positions. Some times it is kept almost the same as the normal wing. The other time it's hanging down about half way to the ground. And as you can see in the pic it's like a little pushed out towards the side. Or can it be inflamation ? Doesn't look like inflamation.


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

*GOOD NEWS: I've investigated the pigeon myself and I think I've figured out the problem*

I checked the wing. There is no fracture and there is no inflamation. The wing looks perfectly normal but there is something that is keeping it tight around an area. Take a look at picture number 1 and picture number 2. It's like a little mountain of tightness in the red area from pic nr 2. 

There is muscle that is tights around that area and contorting the wing. It is exactly the area where the pigeon suffered the injury, you can even see the little mark from when he got stuck in the window. (picture number 3) He was also eventually pushed out because there was no other way to get him out and this created even more pressure. It's hard to describe how he got stuck, I'll post pictures with the window tomorrow. 

- Second vet who checked him good said there is no joint bone going into the muscle or anything of that sort, he said there is no such problem. So this means there is probably no dislocation. I think it's simply a muscle rupture or muscle tightness or something of that sort. 

All this week I never understood why the wing is folded downwards (as shown in pic nr 2). I would expect it to be upwards. I taught and taught about the problem and I think I solved the problem. Take a loot at picture number 4. I think the muscle is tight in that area and pulling upwards and therefore making the wing look like that. 

What do you think ? Is this what the problem is (pic nr 4) ? Should I try to post pic ? In this case, what should I do ? I don't think wraping the wing would help because probably wrapping it wide open should be the way in such a problem and that can not be done. Should I massage the area or try to stretch the wing slowly every day ? Or would warping somehow help ? I checked the link posted here and I think I can do it but would that do any good or more harm ?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Don't do anything with the wing. You could easily cause it more harm than good. You could cause him more pain. Just leave it alone at this point and it will either heal right or not. He may always have a problem with it.


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

Are you sure ? It does not look that complicated to wrap it up but don't know if it would help. 

About healing - will it remain like that or heal a little ? A week has passed already and little to no improvement in my opinion. How many weeks should I wait ? 

At 18yo I had an accident just after getting my driving liscence. (hit a concrete pillar 165km/h) and was hit a little at my hand. I did not go to the doctor cause it didn't look serious. And I remained with a little problem to this day. It's not a big problem, not really disturbing. I don't know how to describe, it's just not like new. A friend who is a kinetotherapist said it will be like that forever and good nothing serious happened after such an accident. 

I suppose the same will happen to the pigeon but I want to know if the wing will improve a little from how it is now. It is a little impairing in the wild. I've read in this topic about the wild pigeon that lived like that but still I hope it will improve a little. Are you sure there is nothing I can do ? Like a special oil or something for the wing ?


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

Did the vet give you any anti inflammatory pain killer for him, just in case it's causing him pain? I know some vets don't because it encourages an animal to use a limb that should be rested but just wondered if they thought he might have pain.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The vets don't think it needs wrapping. Oils are not going to help. Therapy on it could injure it more. Really all you can do is to let it heal as well as it will. If it is always a bit off, then he is at more of a risk for a predator attack. Hawks can tell if a bird is not flying right, and an injury that never totally heels will slow the bird up if he does get attacked by a hawk. Really nothing you can do. Some would not release it back into the wild for these reasons. In a loft or aviary, he should be able to get around well enough.
Many wing injuries never heal properly. And the wing is never the same.


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

@Fredah: They did not give any painkillers. And probably it does not have to do with what you are saying, most probably the did not even think so far in the first place.

@Jay: Unfortunately there are no aviaries around here. But luckily there are no hawks either. I'm living in a standard communist city 300k enhabitans made only of high-rise buildings, not in the open. I've never seen a hawk in a city in my life. They only exist in cities where they were specifically introduced to be anti-pigeon. And I don't think this folk of pigeons goes down on the ground to eat. They eat at windows of high rise buildings so not very concerned about cats either. My concern is I don't know how well he will fly outside. It's impossible to tell if he is flying straight in a small room. And also problems with fights with other pigeons. I'll check him in a bigger room before release. 

Speaking of witch, how much should he stay ? And is there any chance the wing will heal at least a little more than it is now ? Just a week has passed until now so maybe it will heal a little more.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes, it can heal more the longer he can rest it without having to fly a lot to find food and shelter.
There are hawks everywhere. You just don't see them. And ferals do go on the ground looking for food and grit. Grit would only be on the ground.


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

Thank for reminding me about the grit. I completely forgot about it. I brought just yesterday after I saw the msg. About hawks, believe me there are not hawks around here in the city. I've seen bats from time to time but hawks.. I can't even comprehend a hawk here in the city. I will research more about hawks in Ro cities to see if it's possible. 

About the pigeon flight, new things happened: 

- he could fly with no problems after the incident but never did so without been disturbed for a week
- a couple o days ago he started flapping his wings by himself without taking flight. 
- Yesterday he started flying by himself a little in the morning. He was standing on the margin of the closet and flew back and forth for half a meter like doing a little circle and then doing another little circle 
- Today, he flew to the window to see other pigeons for the first time. 

Is this something good or should he be flying a little less ? Since he is doing this by himself, I think it's a good sign and probably e knows what he's doing.


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

In case somebody is curious how could he get stuck in the window in such an iremovable way, here are the pictures:

Picture 1: This is where I have been feeding the pigeons for over a year. I never leave the window open in this vertical position because I figured out they might get stuck when they push each other to eat. But I never took it super seriously since nobody ever got stuck. And this time, I forgot the window in this position. 

Picture 2: Pigeon got stuck in that little corner between the 1 concrepte bar and the wall. At that whole, there is not enough room for a pigeon to pass. He got pushed by other pigeons and got stuck in a vertical position with his head down and bottom up. He was standing on his neck. 

Picture 3: See this little metal bar ? It looks fragile until you try to break it. Not even 5 man would be able to break it. And it has no screws, it's sealed form factory. Those round things that look like screws are not screws, they are sealed "buttons". And the window itself been broken was out of the question since it PVC and is like bullet-proof. If you're wandering why people here have this kind of windows, it's because it saves heating. They are kind of expensive but everybody has this kind of window because if you don't, that's almost like having no window at all. I will never understand why americans have not moved to this kind of window yet and continue to lose a lot of heating. 


So the pigeon should have been pushed inside. I tried doing that but could not because it was putting pressure on the neck and there was no place to really push. I could only reach him with a stick the opening been too small to reach with my hand. I tried for half an hour and solved nothing. Then it became dark so I had to get him out fast in case he flies away and would not be able to return home. So I eventually tied to push him through the bars cause I could push from the bottom and also did not risk breaking the neck. He did not pass through but only got more stuck. But I could now close and open the window horizontaly so I was able to get the pigeon out. It's incredible he had no problems at the neck. He also appeared to have some problems at the foot on the moment but that passed away in a couple of hours. Only the problem at the wing remained.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

chupachups said:


> Thank for reminding me about the grit. I completely forgot about it. I brought just yesterday after I saw the msg. About hawks, believe me there are not hawks around here in the city. I've seen bats from time to time but hawks.. I can't even comprehend a hawk here in the city. I will research more about hawks in Ro cities to see if it's possible.
> 
> About the pigeon flight, new things happened:
> 
> ...



Why do you ask? I keep saying he should be confined in a cage or something so that he has to rest it. You don't do that, and let him fly if he wants anyway. Then you ask if that's okay. You are doing nothing to make him rest it. And you are doing it your way anyway. So I'm not going to give my opinion anymore. I don't know why you ask, but I'm tired of saying the same things over and over, so maybe you can do a better job. The wing will probably never be 100% again, which is what he needs to survive in the wild. It will likely keep re-injuring with the flying that is required in the wild. Poor thing.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

When our beloved Phoebe had a broken wing, we had to keep her in a small, parakeet sized cage until her wing healed to prevent more injury. That was what our fet recommended.


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

I think all he knows is that he wants to escape and won't know by using that wing that he'll just make it worse. His instinct to fly and get away from humans and confinement is stronger than any pain he may be experiencing at the moment so I would confine him anyway - for his own good. As humans we are told how to rest an injured limb but animals will try to escape rather rest because they don't share our ability to understand such things. 
As for your window - are those concrete blocks immoveable? If they are then they'd never be allowed in the UK because of health and safety regulations. How would you get out if there was a fire in another part of the building? I'd much rather have draughts than burn to death, lol.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes, our double pained replacement windows work very well at keeping drafts out, and probably safer.


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

I spoke with somebody and will get a cage tomorrow. I do not like the idea at all. Already he has to stay in such a small room, now even in a cage ? And he is not flying too much either. Today he flew just like yesterday. He flew little circles from the margin of the closed. He flies like half a meter and comes back. Then he does another circle again. He does not look like trying to escape, he looks more like training. And he only does this in the morning and today was just the second day when he did it. Are you absolutely sure he should stay in a cage ? And if so, for how long ? Already 1 and a half week had passed. Should I keep him 1 week in a cage during the day and then free again around the room ?


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

> are those concrete blocks immoveable? If they are then they'd never be allowed in the UK because of health and safety regulations. How would you get out if there was a fire in another part of the building? I'd much rather have draughts than burn to death, lol


The flatblock was designed that way so that people don't see inside the bathroom. Though I have to agree pretty strange. But don't worry about safety problems with these communist flatblocks. At least they're super safe in case of an apocalypse. )) Many even have nuclear shelter beneath them and every person has a little room where they can go to survive and they are used as a basement in peacetime. Also, these things are supposedly made to last 2000 years and are very resistant in case of war. I've seen videos from syria where they shoot rockets into communist blocks and only the windows get broken. It's impossible to destroy these things. It costs billions of dollars to destroy a communist city if somebody really wants to. Only time this was ever even attempted in history was at Grozny with 40.000 artilery hits per day. 

For last year, I've been checking the Syria war map from time to time cause I love maps and noticed how many "pockets" there are. Because of communist cities been indestructible, been high-rise and many even having nuclear shelter beneath, they are very hard to conquer. There are dozens of pockets where people survive for years with no problems. There is even a pocket as small as a street (al-waer pocket) where they continue to survive for 3 years and there is nothing you can do to get them out. You can build dozens of flatblocks with the money it takes to destroy a single one.


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

I have another question about the pigeon. I go to sleep pretty late and the pigeon is living in the same room. Sometimes at night, he starts saying "uuu-uuuu-uuuuu". Why is he doing that ? 

And also, what does this "uuuu-uuu-uuuuuu" mean in general ? One time I put a video with noisy pigeons to him and he started doing that. In all this time he has coo-coo-coo-ed only one time late at night during sleep. He only does the uuuu-uuuu-uuu and no coo-coo-coo-ing.


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## chupachups (May 5, 2016)

Good news. I have released the pigeon 3 days ago and he is doing fine and coming at the window every day  

*IMPORTANT: I have kept the pigeon 6 weeks instead of 4 because I've waited for spring to really come. His wing has recovered in the last 5 days of these 6 weeks. I don't know why but for first 5 weeks and 2 days nothing happened but in the last days he has recovered. He is not 100% recovered but much better than before. So in case you encounter similar problems it is important to keep the pigeon long enough. *

First thing he did after release was going to the same spot as the previous pigeon from last year and mated with the same pigeon as the other in his first 5 seconds after release. So apparently it was a female pigeon too. 

Thank you all for your help  I will post new pictures soon, I was not able to download yet.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If not 100% then probably shouldn't have been released. They need 100% to make it in the wild, and to avoid predators.


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