# Power Surge and hurt pigeon



## BeanTree (Jul 4, 2007)

This morning two pidgeons became victims of a power surge. One was killed and the other was sitting next to him with a hurt wing and a hurt "knee" I suspect. 

The kids found them and I brought the hurt bird into the house. It takes NO time for the fire ants to devour something that cannot move. 

Ok so here is my assesment:
Wing was bleeding in two spots. I bandaged it then later applied liquid bandage to the wing. The bleeding has stopped. 

One foot seems to have bad color or at least a much lighter color than the other foot. Bird will not stand on either foot but one seems to have NO muscle responsiveness. The other one does. the bird flaps wings and tries to get away by using beak and flapping across the floor. 

Stools are milk white and somewhat loose. There have been some formed stools in a puddle of white. One yellow stool today while I was bandaging wing (good thing I am a mom and used to being pooped on). 

What I have done:

Bird is in box in my bathroom which is quiet. I used a rice sock initially but she does not seem cold anymore. (I have no idea if this is a he or she but the kids named her Abigail so...).

I have given her water. I had to show her how to drink from the small yogurt container full of water. It was very endearing. Since reading here, I will add some sugar, salt and a pinch of probiotics as well. 

I have some nutty suet cake which I put in there with her. I also put some raw pumpkin seeds (hulled) in there and I see evidence of her eating some of them. 

I am hoping there is someone more educated about birds nearby that can take on Abigail's rehab project. I am in South Georgia and will drive an hour or so to get her to a good home. 

It has been a CRAZY month with taking in wild animals. The box that abigail is in was inhabited by wild cottontails two weeks ago that had a run in with a mower over thier nest (the groundskeeper at a local b&b did it and wanted my husband to kill them for him, naturally my husband brought them home). Then last week we had two animals get poisoned by agricultural pesticides when the corn fields were sprayed. Needless to say, I cannot give my vet anymore grocery money. 

Please offer advice! She is a sweet bird and I am very suprised at how well she is taking my handling of her. I have quickly become enamored with this bird and I want her to get well. If they mate for life, it was her mate that was killed this morning and that just makes me even sadder.


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Are you saying that they were sitting on a power line and got hit with a some kind of high voltage? There may be severe internal nerve burns.

Pidgey


----------



## BeanTree (Jul 4, 2007)

Yes, I heard the POP at the transformer. The power went out and then came back on quickly. My DSL filter was fried. This happened once before and a racoon bit the dust. We heard the loud pop, the phone and DSL went out and only later did we find the fried racoon in the ditch. Today, it was the same except two pigeons. One dead, feet in the air and this one next to it about 2 feet away. 

How can I tell if she has nerve damage? Will she die. After the rabbits (who were fine and released happily) and the poisoned animals, I am not sure if I can handle burying a bird.


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, the bird's in pretty bad shock and I guess we'll just have to see. There's no point in pressing her to eat at the moment, though. Liquids would be more important at this point. Have to look into this.

Pidgey


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

As bad as I hate to say this, it may go really bad. The problem is one of the probability of actual steam having been formed in the tendons and joints, never mind neural damage. I want you to go here and read the section on "Power Cable Injuries" (gotta' scroll down). Then, using the pictures, examine the bird's feet to see if there are any similarities:

http://www.worldwidewounds.com/2003/november/Cousquer/Avian-Wound-Management-Part-2.html#

Pidgey


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi BeanTree,



Wow...

I'd say keep her cool and quiet and safe for now...rig up a little simple Sling out of some old Tee-Shirt material, suspended at four points, so she is about level and comfortable and not being a 'wiggle worm'...


Cotton Tee-shirt material is just stretchy enough to be ideal, one layer so she does not get hot...like a hammock, sort of...open at the top...side of it going up where they attatch to whatever is suspending them...have it so her Legs are dangleing through comfortable holes, and, so she can poop over the end...

some of her wing-crawling will be from when she wishes to poop, and can not get out of her own way, and she is likely too shy to wish to do it if you are holding her.


Plenty of liquids...add some concentrated Cherry Juice or Cranberry if you can get some...say, a tablespoon to a teacup of Water...not the usual stuff, the no sugar kind...or some of the frozen concentrate kind would do.

And or actually, better yet, make some ACV-Water for her, which would be very good also, you can always add some Berry/Fruit concentrates to it.

Use 2-1/2 Tablespoons of Raw, Apple Cider Vinegar, to a Gallon of good quality Water, and let this be her drinking Water.

Do that..it will do her good...


Back injurys from falls can effect their Nerves so that they loose the use of their Legs for a while...sometimes days, sometimes weeks...and they can come back rather s-l-o-w-l-y, too sometimes, so expect some time with this one...

She may have some sort of electric shock injurys, but additionally, almost certainly has fall injurys.

Likely she will not have any appetite for a couple days...

No 'suet' blocks...no meat things...


Just get some plain ordinary 'Finch Seed' or Canary Seed at any Grocery Store in the pet isle...tomorrow or the next day, set her a little Bowl of that...some little custard cup or the likes...and if you sling her, just have the Water and Seeds on something so she can comfortable reach them...while her legs should be just almost touching the surface below...

Let us know how it is going?


Good luck..!


Can you post some images?


Phil
Las Vegas


----------



## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Wow, that's an interesting link. That ought to go into the sticky section, just because it has so much good information in it.


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

What more than likely happened was that one was perched on one lug and the other on another (they're not insulated). One probably reached over and touched the other in what was a gesture of love and completed the circuit. In order to generate the pop, there must have been a significant flow of energy. I remember a case of a man who was high on drugs and climbed up a power pole and actually lived but he lost his arms and legs.

Pidgey


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Actually, I think it's already in there somewhere, just buried.

Pidgey


----------



## BeanTree (Jul 4, 2007)

First of all, thank you so much for your time. 

I looked at the two pictures I saw and they look NOTHING like Abigail's feet. There are no visible burn marks or blisters. The two wounds on her wing are the only places where she is losing blood or any fluid for that matter. They look as if she was scraped. They do not look like burns to me. The dead pigeon did look a bit fried. 

My digital camera is on a tugboat with my husband or I would take pics. I have a camera on my phone but no other way to take photos of this bird. 

She may be in shock, I will make sure she does not get plain water. When she finally got the hang of drinking, she drank quite a bit and has been eliminating. I just don't sense that she is near deaths door.(especially after looking at those pics) I feel like she has some injuries that may leave her crippled tho. I worry about those feet. 

She has her moments where she flaps about but for the most part, she is very docile. Is that normal? 

My daughter wants to be a vet when she grows up and I wonder if this is not part of some infinite plan to educate her.


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Docility and shock go pretty well together. Seen a lot of that. It's good that you don't see swollen looking joints but the next few days are going to tell a lot. The longer she goes without going downhill, the better the prognosis, that's for sure.

Anyhow, it's not uncommon for them to not have a heckuva' lotta' appetite for up to three days after a bad traumatic injury. How much white stuff are we talking about? A flat blob the size of a quarter or something a lot more substantial?

Pidgey


----------



## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

I would imagine she's still a bit shocked after being zapped. Hopefully she didn't get much of the current going through her and perhaps instead of passing through the body it went from foot to wing or something like that. Sorry about the other bird  
Sometimes there is other internal damage that is not readily apparent. I remember a story on NPR about a man who got struck by lightning. He had ringing in his ears for a long time and lost some memories for awhile along with some other brain damage. His balance was affected. He had major headaches for months afterward but he's making a recovery and most of the problems receded after a few months. 
I think you'll have a house guest for some time -- but a very cute one, I bet.


----------



## BeanTree (Jul 4, 2007)

Nothing more substantial than that the size of a quarter. If not a bit smaller. She has defecated several times (I would say 5 or 6 in the last 12-13 hours). 
I have a flock of "pet" ducks that I have raised and I am familiar with thier poop (it is all over my yard) this is definitely more watery than that. But I do notice that the consistancy of thier poop changes according to what they eat as well. Are pigeons the same?


----------



## BeanTree (Jul 4, 2007)

flits, she is gorgeous! I do not mind keeping her. The cats stay outside, with bells on thier collars so she is safe in here with us. I just hope that I am not killing her with my inexperience with avian first aid. 

My ducks free range in the swamp during the day and if one is hurt, they usually just never come home. I am completely out of my league with birds. Cats and dogs I can usually handle.


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, we'll walk you through as best we can. I gotta' go for the evening, keep us updated.

Pidgey


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

my posts are beind delayed hours or more...anyway, do please see my mentions some ways above...they did not appear till now...

Good luck..!

Phil
Las Vegas


----------



## BeanTree (Jul 4, 2007)

Ok I will need to get her some feed. 

Woke this morning to her standing on her one foot, the other one is still tucked under her and is not the same color as the one she will put weight on. When I picked her up, I tried to see if she would hold onto my fingers and apply weight, she did with help from my other hand. 

Then she tried to fly away. It was funny because I watched her scope out hte bathroom for an escape plan. I had my hand on her tho. 

She is spunky and trying to eat. She is drinking water and there are some formed stools in her box. 

I really think she is going to be OK except for that maimed leg. THe joint is stiff and it is cold and reddish pink. Whereas the leg that is Ok is a dark purplish grey. I wish I could take pics.

Her wings seem in fine order.

I am going to be gone for most of the day, so I need to get on the t-shirt hammock for her. This is going to be fun rigging up in a cardboard box. I have an old dog kennel/crate for a large dog that might have to work as a cage for her.


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

You'll need to monitor that for awhile when you put her in. Sometimes they can get really messed up in those things during the "getting used to it" period. Anyhow, you might see if you can get some Metronidazole (Flagyl) from a vet because it works well in necrotic tissue. This might go that direction and it'll take awhile to show up, if so. There is a product called "FishZole" that you can sometimes get from aquarium supply stores that will work.

Pidgey


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Another thing that might come in handy later if the skin starts sloughing off due to a radiation burn would be a silver sulfadene cream.

Pidgey


----------



## BeanTree (Jul 4, 2007)

I just spoke with the lady hosting the party to which we are going today. She has a good friend down the road from her that raises homing pigeons. Apparently he is very involved with a local club and she thinks that he may be able to come to her house and look at Abigail if I bring her. 

So she is going to a party with us.


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

This is one of those cases where it's a watch-and-wait deal--the bird might simply have suffered a concussion from an exploding bird nearby or it might have real damage that you're not going to know about until it manifests itself. Hopefully, she'll just get better and that'll be that. Hope she enjoys the party.

Pidgey


----------



## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Boy, that's a heck of a way to wrangle an invitation to a party  ! Hope the news is all good.


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Thank you for helping this very needy bird, I am keeping my fingers and toes crossed and saying a prayer that this bird is comfortable and slowly on the mend. 

Just keep her in a quiet area with subdued light, if this is not possible cover the carrier.

You can use Colloidal silver for the injury/burns.


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi BeanTree,


Oh, standing on the one Leg/Foot is indeed excellent news...!


I would skip the 'Hammock' then...she will not need it.


Back injurys which knock out their Legs, can really take some time to heal...and for those, the 'Hammock' or 'Sling' is best.


But if she is standing on one Leg now, I think we can dismiss the Back Injury scenario. And that is just fine...


Her weak Leg may be sprained, strained, or have a cracked Bone or injury to a Joint.


Can you gently feel all along the bones of it, and up high it is hard to do because their Leg is under their side skin there...but see if you find any swollen spots or obvious bendings where none should be...?

If she is holding it up as you say, I would merely inspect it for signs of cracked bones...and allow her to have some various soft cloths for her Cage bottom.


As Pidgey mentions, thie effected Leg may have gotten some sort of injury from electricity passing through it, but if it had, we would expect to see some burns or injury somewhere else also...where, in order to complete a circuit, a Wing or Beak or something would have had to be the other 'end' of the Current passing...

Leg may have been injured prior to the Powewr line mishap for that matter...


She will likely soon be finding her appetite returning...so, yahhhh, get her some nice Bird Seeds...and if you have any FArm or Feed Stores near you, see if they have any honest-to-goodness 'Pigeon Mix'...or maybe the Pigeon fellow you mentioned, does, and he could let you have a few pounds of it for her.


Good luck..!

Phil
Las Vegas


----------



## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

BeanTree said:


> My daughter wants to be a vet when she grows up and I wonder if this is not part of some infinite plan to educate her.


Sounds like divine intervention to me!  Thank you so much for helping these little critters that needed you (and your family). Good luck with the pij, too; she sounds like she will be just fine thanks to your care.


----------



## BeanTree (Jul 4, 2007)

Ok so Abigail attended her first fourth of july party. Thank God the hostess is another one of those people who cannot let an animal go unattended and was extremely sympathetic. Her homing pigeon raising neighbor was not home. So she left a message and told her that I would happily drive the hour to his house to let him look at the bird. 

She is now standing on the leg and putting some weight on the maimed leg however she is not able to uncurl the toes. I am thinking I need to bring in the dog kennel and rig up a perch. Flat not round, right? I have felt the bad leg and compared it to the good leg and I do not feel any broken bones. The joint is a bit stiff. 

The hostess is a big time wild bird lover and has a huge jar of seed. Abigail ate very well tonight on the wild bird seed. I was sent home with a bag of it. 

As of tonight, I have hope that I will be able to release her. I would love nothing more than to know that this bird has two working feet and can go fly out of my yard to find another mate and be a sucessful bird. 

The hostess of the party wondered about these birds. Apparently, pigeons are rarely seen around here. We are VERY rural but there is an active group pf homing pigeon folks who race birds. She wonders if these two are really feral. Which might explain why Abigail is so docile when I handle her. She does not like for me to do much with her but she tolerates it. There are no bands on her legs or her mate's legs. 

She is getting better not worse and tonight I have hope. 

Off to change bedding in that box and go to bed.


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

...the 'round' perch is what I would elect for her, since her Toes would benifit from being set to be gripping it...meaning, one could place her on it and make sure those Toes go round it...something the diameter of one's little finger...

even have her Seed Bowl and Water Borl set up so they are best reached form the perch...

But too, she would likely be fine without these fussings, and just needs some time for her sprained or strained Leg to heal at it's own pace...and this is sometimes a few days, sometimes a week...sometimes two weeks or so...


Otherwise, a Rock or Brick is fine...

So glad to hear she is improving...!

Good going..!


Phil
Las Vegas


----------



## BeanTree (Jul 4, 2007)

She is continuing to improve and is getting fiesty about me touching her. 

I have not pulled the crate out of the barn just yet but I am afraid that if that does not happen, I may have a pigeon flying around my bedroom and bathroom and I can think of better things to worry about than the wild bird flying around. 

She is still keeping those claws folded into a fist but now is using the leg. She is eating and drinking just fine.

She is also preening herself and has a feather stuck to her beak. I wonder if it is a feather that has some glue left from the tape I used to initially tape up her wing. I have tried to pull the feather off of her beak but she wants nothing to do with my fingers near her face. This is VASTLY different from yesterday. 

I am thinking that in a day or two, I may be able to send her back out into the world. 

THen I am burning this cardboard box. It has housed 2 orphaned rabbits, a dying cat and now a hurt pigeon. I am done with the animal rescue for the year.


----------



## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Glad to hear that Abigail is on the mend. 

I'd give her a few more days to relax that foot so the toes work again. She'll have a footicap to get used to if it's permenant so her coping skills will be less than before. When you do go to release her, try and find a feral flock to introduce her to for a few days. A solitary pigeon is easy pickings for a predator -- she'll have a much better chance with a flock.

I bet she was the hit of the party


----------



## BeanTree (Jul 4, 2007)

Ok so I just picked her up and looked at her. That wing that was bleeding has skin over the spot. BUT there seems to be blood pooling under the skin and it is swollen a bit. 

Now I am worried again. I would feel so much better if I could just get her to someone who could handle this without the guesswork.


----------



## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

BeanTree said:


> Ok so I just picked her up and looked at her. That wing that was bleeding has skin over the spot. BUT there seems to be blood pooling under the skin and it is swollen a bit.
> 
> Now I am worried again. I would feel so much better if I could just get her to someone who could handle this without the guesswork.



Is the blood pooling under the skin 
_*and also over a wing joint?*_

fp


----------



## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

I've probably missed this in the thread, but where abouts are you located?

fp


----------



## BeanTree (Jul 4, 2007)

I am in SouthEast Georgia. About an hour from the Florida line and 3.5-4 hours from Atlanta. 

It is pooling below the wing joint, in the muscular part of the outer wing. I have to wonder if it is not more damaged by her putting weight on it to compensate for the injured foot. 

I put a brick in her box.

I also doused her wing and belly with betadine solution to clean it. She had some feces on her belly. She is eliminating alot and I cannot keep the newspaper clean often enough. 

I have a bottle of veterinary grade Clindamyacin. It is called ClindaCure. There is 20mL of Clindamycin Hydrochloride Oral Liquid in a 30mL bottle. This is new and never used. Can I treat the bird with this? 

She is still eating and drinking with gusto.


----------



## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Can you post a picture, first off? 

fp


----------



## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

If the bird has Salmonella/Paratyphoid, Baytril is considered the medication of
choice. I'm not getting any listing at all for Clindamyacin in the formulary
or online for it's use in the treatment of Paratyphoid, if this is what your
rescue has. I can mail you the correct medication if you send me your address
in pm.

fp


----------



## BeanTree (Jul 4, 2007)

What makes you think it is salmonella?

What do I look for?

I have young kids and need to be very precautious as my daughter has celiacs disease and is especially sensitive to anything that interupts the gastrointestinal system. 

I cannot take pics except with my cell phone. If you want me to send them to your phone I can try that. My dig camera is on a boat with my husband until July 18th. 

I will pm you my address. I will also see if I can get my phone to take good pics of this and if you want I will send them to you via phone.


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, don't see a reason to treat with Clindamycin at this point, yet. Birds don't often get skin infections from wounds and you don't usually use Clindamycin when they do but we'll keep it in mind. The blood pooling is called a "hematoma" and unless it's excessively large, it's better to leave it in. They can be reduced by sticking them with a hypo and drawing the fluid out if you've got one and are so inclined. Sometimes, they just fill right back up again.

You could make a towel donut with an open area in the back lined with a paper towel to catch the poop. They will often stay there pretty well with a leg injury if you'll be good enough to keep the poop from stacking up too high. You also have to put the food and water right in front of them. It's easier doing that than cleaning off their bellies like you're doing. 

Rigging them up in a sling works pretty well, too. That's a fun thing to make but it can be made from the simplest stuff if you're of a mind. It's a matter of cutting some holes in a towel for their legs to stick out and another in the back for the poop to drop through. Then the towel is hung up like a hammock and the bird just lays in it.

Pidgey


----------



## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Yeah, like some others here, that kind of cell phone isn't in my budget either.
Your daughter should be fine as long as she's not handling the bird or washing
hands if she does. Just the normal precautions.

It is just something that is not uncommon in rescues and something they
can get from rats or mice or other animals/birds that are carriers and shedding
the illness. There are different expressions of the illness and one that we frequently see is the articular form of the disease. Here's a link that gives
a good description of how the illness manifests in pigeons:

http://www.wingswest.net/pigeons/health/paratyphoid.html

fp


----------



## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Could just be pooling or could be a boil in the making especially if forming
at a joint. Kind of hard to know without the visuals.

fp


----------



## BeanTree (Jul 4, 2007)

I will see if I cannot get someone to help me get pics posted.


----------



## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Electricity can be a funny thing, if you aren't "the ground" it can just
passover you to the spot in it's path where it can return to ground. 
Could be the one dead bird provided the path. At any rate, the bird
could have been sick before the incident, and the incident provided 
an opportunity for the bird to be caught. I did once know a man 
who, believe it or not, had been struck w/lightening 3 separate times
in his life and lived into his nineties.

fp


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Commercial electricity goes to ground if the neutral rail is bonded to earth but it only goes there if that can provide a sufficient alternate path back to the neutral connection of, in this case, the transformer. With the transformers on the residential poles, the incoming transmission line taps usually vary from 2,160 volts on up. For a bird to make an audible pop, it's just about going to have to be in that range. If you're completely isolated, you can grab a single high tension line without being electrocuted. The power companies actually have a training program where that's your graduation test--to grab an active, REAL HIGH voltage line. But you can't complete the circuit like this guy did:

http://members.tripod.com/~StormTrooper_2/index2.htm

...without suffering the consequences. At the minimum transmission line voltage, the two birds would have gotten fried (various degrees, unpredictable) even with a simple wing flip.

Pidgey


----------



## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

One bird is dead, one is not. The living bird has whitish diarhea and some possible joint issues. Whitish diarhea is frequently associated w/Salmonella.
These issues together make Salmonella a good possibility whether there are
issues additionally/simultaneously from the power surge. 

I've seen videos and pics on the topic, and one doesn't want to complete the
circuit. Would seem the second one didn't.

fp


----------



## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Pidgey said:


> The power companies actually have a training program where that's your graduation test--to grab an active, REAL HIGH voltage line. But you can't complete the circuit like this guy did:
> 
> http://members.tripod.com/~StormTrooper_2/index2.htm
> 
> ...


That has got to be a HARD way to kick the habit!  I can't imagine the recovery time for that fool.


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Your tax dollars at work (government webpage on bird electrocutions--actually has some applicable stuff, including mention of subcutaneous hemorrhage [hematomas and such]) and pictures of some electrical burns on the avian patient):

http://www.nwhc.usgs.gov/publications/field_manual/chapter_50.pdf

Flits,

As I recall, the fellow lost most or all of his limbs so I expect getting his PCP or committing suicide wasn't much of an option after that.

Pidgey


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

feralpigeon said:


> One bird is dead, one is not. The living bird has whitish diarhea and some possible joint issues. Whitish diarhea is frequently associated w/Salmonella.
> These issues together make Salmonella a good possibility whether there are
> issues additionally/simultaneously from the power surge.
> 
> ...


Hi fp, BeanTree, 



Well, if the poops are looking alright now, I do not think we need worry about disease process for the time being.

Trauma can throw off their poops/urates for sure, for a few days anyway, till things find their stride again.

Whitish watery poops can be in effect a failure to re-collect the Water from the urates...and this can be a result of some tone loss to the rear area effecting the muscles and processes of the Vent.


So, really, the question would be, how are the poops now?


What do they look like? What is their consistancy?

Pigeons hitting puberty...or other occasions of hormones riseing, can make for some entirely freightening looking wierd, curdled and 'off' poops, but these similarly are only temporary and are not signaling disease or problems...merely a change in chemistry of their system for the moment...

One of mine here, shot in the wing, had a HUGE hematoma, and it is now almost all gone...so, takes a few days anyway, maybe more...but if something broke a little Blood Vessel in there, it can make quite a 'blue' swelling...


Phil
Las Vegas


----------



## BeanTree (Jul 4, 2007)

the poops have changed over the last few days. 

Now I am seeing formed dark blobs of poop with halo of wet around them. Sometimes that wet is a bit white but not so much today. 

(I cannot believe that I am describing bird poop!)

I am still working on the pictures. She is enjoying her perch. The bad foot seems to be getting smaller. She is putting weight on the knuckles. She is also trying to fly away every time I pick her up. The swollen wing is not stopping her from flapping it. She is eating more than I would expect. I am wondering if I can over feed her?

I have her food in a peanut butter jar lid and I mound it up pretty well. She obviously does not care for the millet as much as the sunflower seeds in the mix. But she is really going through a lot of food. I have mounded the lid up twice already today. That just seems like a lot of food for one bird.


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Tell you what, she probably shouldn't be flapping that wing for awhile, especially with a hematoma. Can you keep her in something with a low ceiling (dog carrier or box with only the end open on its side) so that she won't even think or want to flap? Sometimes their anxiety or panic is enough for them to hurt themselves more. It's best just not to give 'em the room to do it for awhile.

Pidgey


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Just out of curiosity, can you manually open the clenched toes? If they're going to end up permanently messed up, it'd probably be better for them to scar up in an open position. To do that, you'd just take a piece of wide masking tape and work the toes open down on the sticky side. You can then cover them over with more tape and add layers until it's stiff enough that it won't buckle. That might help her out a lot.

Pidgey


----------



## BeanTree (Jul 4, 2007)

My mom has a cat carrying cage that I can hose down and use. 

My dog kennel is very large. 

I think at first she was too dazed to care but it is becoming obvious that she would rather not be hanging out in my bathroom. She is reacting very differently to me and is doing more for herself. But then again, I have taped a wing, bathed her in betadine and taken her to a party...I dont think I am on her list of favorite people. If I have to tube feed her to get abx in her I am really not making her Christmas Card list.


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

The initial shock (not to be confused with an electric shock) is often enough to make them seem very docile and loving at first. You just never know whether they're going to turn out to be very loving and adapted to living in a home or not. Personally, I think there's a really strong chance that she won't ultimately be releasable but I'd pay good money to be proven wrong on that prediction. Anyhow, here's a real good story of an unreleasable pigeon that fit in pretty well:

http://www.urbanwildlifesociety.org/pigeons/BerniePijStory.html

Pidgey


----------



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

BeanTree said:


> I dont think I am on her list of favorite people. If I have to tube feed her to get abx in her I am really not making her Christmas Card list.



Mmmm, I don't think either, in his oppinion you're torturing him. 

Reti


----------



## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Well, I did send meds to you today, as I mentioned in pm. and Bean Tree did
also mention that the pigeon is getting Colloidal Silver. I'm thinking you probably have probiotics on hand as well or could get some. This is always
helpful for their digestive tract as well.

Most of the meds are known devil meds and in pill format.

fp


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

If there's internal damage and eventual necrosis, the antibiotics may be a lifesaver. I'd probably tend to start the bird on them as soon as they arrive.

Pidgey


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

BeanTree said:


> the poops have changed over the last few days.
> 
> Now I am seeing formed dark blobs of poop with halo of wet around them. Sometimes that wet is a bit white but not so much today.
> 
> ...




Hi BeanTree,



Colors? 

If you keep her on a white Towell...it is easier to see, count or evaluate the poops...


Is there any chaulky 'yellow' to the 'wet' part ot halo?


Also, if feeding Sunflower seeds, please ONLY feed the very "small" kind, the so called "Black Oil Seeds"...the other kinds can clog them up and kill them...even though when hungry they WILL eat them...same with 'peanuts', it is very dangerous for any injured, ill, young, or convelesent PIgeon to be allowed to eat them.

Generally Sunflower Seeds will make for 'black' Poops, which in it's way is not good when trying to evaluate otherwise for illness or internal injurys...so, if it was me, I would not feed any Sunflower Seeds for the time being.


Once set up in a low cage...have a white Towell for the bottom...

Take some Tape and tape her Wings together at the primary Feather tips, over the small of her back...just tape the tips together there, and this will keep her from flapping and from stressing the injured Wing.

With the Leg issue, this will also likely keep her from being able to stand or move about much, so she should be set up in a "U" Shaped second small towell, rolled loosely and bent into a "U" form for her to lay in...have Seeds and Water in easy reach in front of her, and adjust her as necessary...


Fine for her to eat all she likes...

I have had some convelesents who ate a full Tea Cup worth a-day...


If you are not already doing so, please consider for her drinking Water to be ACV-Water...being in this case, two and a half Tablespoons of raw Apple Cider Vinegar to a Gallon of Water...just use a plastic Gallon Jug, and label it.

Best wishes!

Good luck..!

Phil
Las Vegas


----------



## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Bean Tree, do you have a scanner? If you knew someone w/a scanner, maybe they could scan and you could put it on a floppy and bring it to your house?
Disposable camera, develope, scan....floppy or email to you....does that sound doable?

It sure would be good to have some pictures. I'd tend to do the one time wormer and one time coccidiosis treatment before going for the anitbiotics.
Then combine Metronidazole and Baytril.


----------



## BeanTree (Jul 4, 2007)

Ok I have 3 really bad pics. the lighting in my bathroom is bad and the camera phone is not very good. BUT I figured out how to send pics from my phone to the computer! (I only have this damn phone to keep in touch with the husband who is on a boat 2/3 of the time and still dont know how to use it). I will try to get better pics tomorrow when the light is better. 

But here is a link to pics.
http://www.axcessmypics.com/Beantree/jsps/blog

Let me explain:
Pic 1. box that I was using earlier before ants found it. This has dirty paper in bottom. You can see on the ampersand written on teh newsprint a typical dropping for today. This is prior to the colloidial silver. I have added Baby Jarrow Acidophilus probiotics to her water from the getgo. If I am handling her and she poops, it is much runnier. I will be needing a new bathroom rug. 

Pic2. Poorly lit pic of Abigail sitting on her food. She seems to like to do this quite a bit. 

Pic3. Bad shot of the area of concern with the wing it is inflamed and pink. Definitely swollen. The feathers look horrible after I rinsed them down with betadyne today. 

I have her in another, smaller cardboard box until I can get a carrying cage.


----------



## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Wow, that software is fantastic, I can't believe the load time. I have several
who like to perch on their food bowl as well, especially at night. Well, the probiotics and the CS sure seem to have been doing their job. I can't see real well in the pictures probably because it is a cell phone camera, but I've seen worse. When you have a feral in hand, it's kind of an opportunity to treat for things that are usually there. So barring any significant change in demeanor, I'd still give the one time wormer and coccidiosis treatment the first day but am/pm then move on to Baytril/Metronidazole combo. The bird burrito should help you when needing to handle. When through w/medications it's best to give them a few days of probiotics to get their system back to normal. We really don't know if the other bird was a mate or what, so this bird could be experiencing quite a range of things right now, I'm glad s/he is in your care.

fp


----------



## BeanTree (Jul 4, 2007)

When we were coming home tonight, my daughter said she saw a few other pigeons on the freakin phone wire. Lets hope they dont do whatever the others did. 

The phone company guy thinks what happened was that when teh power went off, it created a surge that coursed through the line when it came back on. This huge load of electricity is what fried my DSL filter and what he thinks killed the one pigeon. 

I am hoping that her flock sticks around long enough for her to get out of my house as wholesome as possible. 

Man, this pigeon is going to hate my guts when I start sticking stuff in her mouth. Oy! 

I did the burrito thing today.


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Can you take a picture of the electrical stuff directly above where you found the birds?

Pidgey


----------



## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

BeanTree said:


> When we were coming home tonight, my daughter said she saw a few other pigeons on the freakin phone wire. Lets hope they dont do whatever the others did.
> 
> The phone company guy thinks what happened was that when teh power went off, it created a surge that coursed through the line when it came back on. This huge load of electricity is what fried my DSL filter and what he thinks killed the one pigeon.
> 
> ...




Yes, I did read the earlier posts, Bean Tree, I was concerned that there may
have been a simultaneous condition unrelated to the incident. I don't think
that's the case, though, after your description in p.m., it is definitely in the
skin and not emanating from the joint. 

She may not hate you when you are through, but summering w/you and your family might not be on her wishlist again in this life.

fp


----------



## BeanTree (Jul 4, 2007)

I will try to get more pics today and pics of the phone wire. 

Was unwittingly taking in a wild bird a stupid thing to do? I have always been of the mind that people are too scared of nature. That most things people are scared of are simply from ignorance.

But then I find a hurt bird next to a dead one and bring it in my house. Next I hear more about bird flu in France and I wonder...was this smart? I have a somewhat immune compromised child and I am putting wild animals into our home. 

Of course, Abigail seems biologically healthy, it is just her physical body that seems out of sorts. 

There were two chalky yellow poops at first. Btu I have not seen any since the first day. 

The claw that is damaged was larger the first day. it is withering. But she is putting weight on it. The injuries did not look like they were from another bird but I guess they could have been. Do pigeons fight eachother to the death?


----------



## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

BeanTree, it was not a foolish thing to get involved with a wild creature. You are being a "good steward". 

Do not worry about the bird flu, or the West Nile virus. Pigeons have proven terrifically resistant to the bird flu (and trust me, it wasn't for lack of some scientists somewhere trying to give it to them). They are also not good hosts for the West Nile virus. 
As long as you take the usual precautions of washing your hands after taking care of the bird and following the general hygene rules you would after contact with any other animal you and the family should be safe. 
Most of the hoopla that's passed around about pigeons being nasty vile pest-ridden animals comes from ignorance or worse, from pest control companies trying to sell services.


----------



## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

BeanTree said:


> I will try to get more pics today and pics of the phone wire.
> 
> Was unwittingly taking in a wild bird a stupid thing to do? I have always been of the mind that people are too scared of nature. That most things people are scared of are simply from ignorance.
> 
> ...




Pigeons are particulary resistant to getting and therefore being carriers of the feared birdflu pandemic. Perhaps things might change in the future as the
virus morphs, but for now, the medical community is not particularly concerned about pigeons spreading the virus.

I think it's more about compassion than stupidity, they are the sweet birds they seem to be....good birds w/a bad 'rep'.

Feral pigeons don't generally behave that way, though they can get territorial. It is indeed probably related to the power surge if the injury
was also fresh. Can you describe the withering in more detail?

fp


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

She's probably going to eventually lose the foot, then. It kind of sounds like the tissue is devitalizing. In the links that I gave earlier, it talks about the affected tissues getting cordoned off by the body and eventually they may just slough off. That takes several days. She probably can't feel anything from the toes and is mostly using the upper leg as well as it works. 

You can study the skeletal structure here and use the applicable bone names to describe how far up you're seeing the withering effect:

http://people.eku.edu/ritchisong/skeleton.html

You can also use it to describe where the skin damage is on the wing.

If a large patch of skin sloughs off from the wing, feathers and all, you may get an immediate urge to panic. Don't. The body will have already done some sealing off and while it may look like pink wetness and exposed flesh, it's not going to be as bad as it looks in terms of the bird's life. It may mean that Abigail isn't going to be flying again at all or well enough to be releasable but that would remain to be seen. I'm saying this to bolster your courage if and when that happens. Hopefully, the foot damage will be more isolated and we can get out of this with Abigail bearing just a little resemblance to a pirate.

Pidgey


----------



## BeanTree (Jul 4, 2007)

Ok this sounds good. I am a very wait and see kinda gal. I have no problem homing this bird if she cannot fly. Eventually, she will like me when I am not giving her medical care I am sure we can be friends. But I do hope that she will be able to fly and express her "pigeon-ness" again. 

She is beautiful and I do enjoy watching her. But I will enjoy this once more when I dont have this nagging fear that I am going to find her dead.


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi BeanTree, 



Use a white or light color Towell, ( just shake off outside, brush off any dried clinging poops, and launder as usual, it will come out fine) not newspaper...for her to be on...paper is too slippery and invites mould and mildew and etc etc etc...no good...


Phone Wires do not carry the kind of electricty which would harm anyone...
Power Lines do, and or the typically 'upper' runs of them...


Anyway...best wishes..!

Phil
Las Vegas


----------



## BeanTree (Jul 4, 2007)

The wing is sloughing off tissue. This has released the blood pocket as best I can tell. I can see flesh but so far it looks mostly healthy. I will be happy to have her on some abx. 

I am wrapping her like a burrito and leaving that wing out and rinsing the area with betadyne solution just to help keep it clean. She does not like this but at this point, my feelings are not hurt. 

I have promised pictures and will do everything I can to get them. 

I am driving to a Goodwill today to look for a birdcage. 

What is the protocol? Bleach and sun dry?

The foot is useless as a foot. It is curled up like a club. The color is changing from bright red to a darker color which more closely resembles the other foot. 


I have the number of the homing pigeon guy. The friend who talked with him said that some birds are just too far gone to save. I dont think he thinks that, but he wanted to prepare me if that was the case.

If I feel like I need an opinion, I will take her to his house. It is 1.5 hour drive so I will wait until I really need him to look at her. 

Her flock is still in the front field I saw them yesterday when I was mowing.

Edited to add: the sloughing is happening where the ulna meets the humorus.


----------



## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Half a cup of bleach to one gallon of water will kill anything that needs sterilizing. I mix up a gallon at a time and then fill a spray bottle. This
is what I use for cleaning cages, utensils etc. whether for sick birds or
not. The spray gets into any/every crevice and is a very convenient way
to clean. I give the deep sink a good spray when I"m done. Sun drying 
is a good thing to do initially as well.

I also use newspaper in pretty thick layers so that during the week
when I am busy, I can lift off the top layers every morning and toss.
Voila, clean cage...the utensils get it everyday.
By the end of the week there is very little left and it's time for thorough
cleaning anyway.....back to the spray and dry. Every 2-3 weeks,
the cage gets sprayed w/Scalex after disinfecting and allowed to dry.

Well, her perching on the wire days may be over if she loses that foot
which may serve to isolate her from the flock as she will not be able to
join them on the wires. A pij roosting by themselves is more vulnerable
w/out the protection of a flock to rely on 'announcements' of predators
close by. The meds should be there very soon....

fp


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

On the leg, what's the last joint that is flexing normally? If it's the joint of the tibiotarsus to the tarsometatarsus then the chance is good that he'll end up like fp's bird "Ballsy", which isn't so bad. I'm hoping that the deeper tissues of the wing (the operating musculature) and the joints are still viable but it's still too early to tell. The outermost portion of the wing (carpometacarpus) could be checked to see if it's remaining vital by way of wetting the feathers in that area with soapy water. That kind of allows you to look in and see if the skin and underlying flesh has a healthy color or if alarm bells are going off.

Pidgey


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Since you've been using the colloidal silver, you might as well use it on the wing instead of the Betadine. Real Silver Sulfadene ointment is designed for burns so it'd be better but Betadine is more for other kinds of injuries, I think.

Pidgey


----------



## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Actually, Ballsy is a good example of what I'm talking about. Ballsy was always on the periferal of the flock because of her ball foot. At feeding times she was frequently a few feet away from the group out on the edge and couldn't join the flock up on the wire when they were just hanging out. So she roosted by
herself elsewhere. She was of course vulnerable and when hit by a hawk, the
flock itself deemed her a security risk and proceeded to try and finish the 
job that the hawk had started. This isn't their regularl behaviour but more
their survival skills at work. I picked her up in the middle of all this and took
her home. 

fp


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Where's she's been a pretty happy bird, ever since! Ballsy's story is a good one and you've certainly done right by that bird. Very good model for this circumstance.

Pidgey


----------



## Pisciottano (Aug 20, 2005)

Hello BeanTree,
Would love to hear the outcome of your little patient. Many thanks, Gladys


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=212036&postcount=17


----------



## BeanTree (Jul 4, 2007)

I had to have the pigeon put down by a local vet. She had gangrene in her wing and was slowly losing the other foot. It was the most horrible experience of my life. I will NEVER forget trying to help that bird. I have a much deeper respect for pigeons and it is bittersweet to watch them in the yard.

I DID find out what was going on. Over time the two wires became lax and one sagged just enough that when the right number of birds sat on the line together, it would sag enough to cause the wires to arc. This would shock the lowest sitting pigeon and kill it. The ones next to it would suffer in some way. 

I had the power company come out and tighten the lines and the problem ceased. The power guy said that this is a common occurance (lines sagging over time). 

We have since moved to a different property that has many more birds. I have my feeders out and watch the doves and pigeons hang out under the feeders for what the cardinals, wrens and robins leave behind. 

Abigail was a very dear bird and my heart breaks when i think about her end but I hope she understands that I really did my best.


----------

