# Has anyone ever sent messages with their pigeon?



## pigeonsrule (Dec 5, 2002)

Hi!
I just wanted to know if anyone here has ever sent messages with their pigeons. A friend once told me its possible with a homing pigeon.

-D.P.


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## Pigeonrh (Oct 3, 2001)

Hi,
I use film containers for messaging with my birds, I hook 2 elastic's to the con. and them I put one elastic around each wing,so the con. sits on the birds back, and put the message in the con. and let it go.
It's great for hunting, I take them with me and let them go to tell the people at home if we got anything!
But I do it only with my rollers right now..

Ryan


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## Donald Perusse (Jan 7, 2003)

Bryan - That's interesting. Is a "roller" a type of homing pigeon? I thought rollers and tumblers would fly and tumble, like air tricks but stay close to loft. Fly around awhile then return. Please tell me more about the difference. I'm interested in homers but don't have any birds yet. Don't plan to enter racing so perhaps I should look into rollers/tumblers? Making plans now for a loft in the spring. Thanks. Don


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## Pigeonrh (Oct 3, 2001)

Hi,
All pigeons have some sort of homing skill but none are as good as the homing pigeons, the most I've ever takin my rollers was only like 2 miles. Partly because I was getting in to racing my homers, so I didn't have room for any rollers so it wouldn't have been any thing big if it didn't come home(doin me a favor really...), and I just wanted to see if they would make it in good time.

Later,
Ryan


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## turkey (May 19, 2002)

Sounds irresponsible.

Julie :-(


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## Termite (Jan 14, 2003)

Not to me, there is no way a pigeon is getting lost from 2 miles. He said it wouldn't be a big deal, he didn't say he intentionaly tried to loose them. If he did he would have taken them out to 10 or 20 miles. Just my opinion of course. I've had rollers fly back to the loft I bought them from over 5 miles away. Take a look at how hight rollers get in the air, they can see everything for miles and miles.

Termite

[This message has been edited by Termite (edited February 05, 2003).]


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## Psion (Mar 1, 2002)

Yeah and the ones you want to get rid of never get lost, lol.

Nick


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## turkey (May 19, 2002)

He also said it would be doing him a favor. I guess it's only my opinion, but being a responsible pet owner to me means to do your best to keep your pet safe and healthy. In my opinion, doing me a favor if it gets lost, does not fall in the responsible catagory. 

Julie


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## Navigator (Jan 2, 2003)

Julie, I think Ryan is just trying to get some attention. Please do as I would like to do and disregard the silly answer. One day he may be lucky enough to grow up.
Harry...


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Good morning racing fans,
I must agree with Julie. 
Guess I just don't get it. Please don't construe the following questions as sarcastic. Do you purchase (or are given) these birds merely to see what their potential is? Given it's potential is NOT up to your standards, you would rather it not come home. 
If this IS the case I have a another question. Do you ever take the time to think (or do you even care) what might happen to this 'lost' pigeon? 
If you answer is 'yes' to the first two questions & 'no' to the last, not only is it irresponsible it is absolutely cruel.
Just my opinion.
I trust this is NOT the consensus of all racers.
Cindy

Just read Harry's post to Julie, Let's hope you are right. 



[This message has been edited by AZWhitefeather (edited February 07, 2003).]


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## Termite (Jan 14, 2003)

We all know what happens to lost pigeons. They get eaten by preditors or they starve, as they don't realy know how to care for themselfs. 

Most, not all, but most racers will tell you that if a bird don't come back it was naturaly culled. Not that they don't care about the bird, however if they expect to race and win, they have to have sort of a mind set to accept the losses. I have had young birds that I REALY, REALY liked and didn't want to loose that never came back. However I would not keep a bird from flying because I'm afraid he won't come back. 
If I did that, I might just breed this bird because I liked it so much. Now that I've bred the bird and had chicks, lets say the chicks can't find their way home, so I breed more and they can't come home either. I could have prevented a lot of hard work and heartache by just flying the original bird and if it didn't come back, so be it.

My original response to this was not intended as an attack. Rollers fly realy high and they range for several miles when out playing around. I just pointed out that for a roller to get lost from 2 miles is almost a non-issue. Furthermore he stated that "if" they got lost. He didn't realy want to lose them or see them killed by a hawk, but if it happend then he would have more room. *These type of losses will happen if you just fly your birds at your loft. In fact hawk attacks are more likely at the loft especialy if you fly at the same time every day*

Now if he said,I took my rollers out to 300 miles to see if they would come back, that would be irresponsible to me, as they are not bred for that and would have no way of knowing how to get home.

Please don't think I'm being sarcastic with this statement, because I truly believe it. If you think that taking pigeons out and flying them home is cruel if they get lost, maybe you should not have a racing pigeon forum. There are thousand of homing pigeons that don't come home every year, sometimes thousands can be lost in one race due to bad weather or something like that. I mean no malace with this statment, but it is a fact of life with racing pigeons that we fly them and some of them are going to get lost, sometimes a lot of them. 

Termite


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## Termite (Jan 14, 2003)

By the way, I figured I should say this because I feel that my previous post will ruffle some feathers. I respect your opinions and do not wish to change them, If you don't want to fly your birds or don't think they should race that is fine with me. I would have no problem sitting down and having coffee with most anyone who likes birds, I learn something new from everyone and enjoy talking about them. However, I also expect the same in return. That is what makes our country great. If we disagree on a topic it is best left alone, but if someone ask a direct question about a subject I would have to answer them, privatly if nessisary.

Termite

[This message has been edited by Termite (edited February 07, 2003).]


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Thank you Termite,
I appreciate your response. 
Actually, I was addressing my questions in a general form & most certainly not intending to attack anyone. 
Ryan appeared to have a 'nonchalant' attitude regarding the return of his birds. 
If I had racing pigeons, I would be heartbroken if one or many of my birds didn't return, for whatever reason. 
I understand what you are saying & thank you for the explanation. 
This is how we learn. 
Cindy


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## Pigeonrh (Oct 3, 2001)

Hi,
If you get heart broken over a bird or two not going home then you would not be able to race(or at lease be good at it). I flew my best young bird I ever raised a month ago for the first time since summer and it took off and I haven't sen her since!.... But I can't get all sad/mad about it, or I wouldn't be succesful in racing. Many guys only fly hens as young birds and cull all of them after the yb season, along with most of the other young birds that didn't perform good enough to be raced as old birds, and they spent the summer training and getting to know them. A common saying is.."everytime you go to the loft,look for a bird to cull."
I thought this was a racing pigeon fourm, lol how can we talk about racing if we can't even talk about one of, if not the biggest part of racing.(The only people complaining about this topic are the ones that do not race.) 

Later,
Ryan


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## Termite (Jan 14, 2003)

Cindy,

Thanks for your open attitude, I can see your point also.







Sometimes racing pigeons or raising animals in general puts a person into a situation they would not be in if they had a choice. I hate to loose my birds but I still race and love it. There is NOTHING like seeing a bird dive bomb the loft from several thousand feet in the air and know it came back home as fast as it could! 

Ryan,
Yep, everyone has an opinion and that is their right. Anyone who don't want to cull don't have to! But you are also correct in saying that a person can't be competitive in racing without culling (culling is not always killing) Some flyers sell their culls to show people, pet stores, ect. 

Don't worry, be happy.

Termite


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## Psion (Mar 1, 2002)

Yes, I assumed this was a racing forum as well Ryan. Birds get lost, its what they do. If you cry about losing a bird, pigeons aren't for you. 

Nick


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## Pigeonrh (Oct 3, 2001)

I thought so to Nick... Now I'm beginning to second guess if these people that post here really know what goes on in the pigeon world. There is more to pigeons then them just sitting in a cage in your living room, or having them fly around your house. To anyone that accually has "real" breeds of birds, it took thousands of years of culling and selective breeding to get them birds the way they are, so you can't just breed any 2 birds together and expect them to throw the best young birds, if you keep doin that your loft(or cage as in most of your cases) will become over ran with birds and to many birds will lead to sick birds. So it it is easyer just to pair the best birds up and "keep only the best and cull the rest". This way you can continue breeding birds without having them over run your loft. YOU PEOPLE HAVE TO SEE THAT CULLING IS A HUGE PART OF KEEPING BIRDS HEALTHY AND BEING SUCCESSFUL WITH PIGEONS! lol..if you do not cull then you will go NOOOOOOO...WHERRRRREEEE with pigeons... and sellin your culls may work but anyone that wants good birds(as we all should) should not buy culls, and selling them to people may be just as stupid!

Ryan


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## Psion (Mar 1, 2002)

Right indeed. And I hope that this thread is not shut down because we have mentioned culling, because in my opinion, thats just childish. Its a part of pigeon keeping. In the wild there is culling as well, hawks take care of the slow birds as people take care of the slow racers. If you are thinking this is disgusting, you are just being ignorant to the world of pigeons and the world in general. Feel free to come out of your hole anytime and see what its like out there. Culling is needed to keep breeds.... well... breeds. Irresponsible pet ownership... hmmmmmm... Racing pigeons (that are actually raced) are more like partners than pets. And like in business, they may ditch you, lol. But you people are hugging the trees a little too tightly. I've heard people say letting your cat live outside or go in and out freely is irresponisble too. Animals were not created in a person's living room. They were out in nature. Keeping a cat indoors is silly I think... and I have 2, both indoors, my family won't let them out. As a result, they aren't very survival smart. Do people keep you in a cage? No, so get over it.

Nick


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## Pigeonrh (Oct 3, 2001)

Yes, I agree closing this would be childish, you they made a racing fourm then they have to see that people are going to talk about culling birds! On other boards Q's about culling are as common as people asking what to feed the birds! The logo for this site is "A place for pigeon lovers" lol if you are a hard core racer and do not cull birds you do not love your birds enough! On REAL racing fourms when you ask a Q about culling or bring it up you do not get your head bit off! They no it's a normal/important part of racing and keeping birds healthy!!! DUUUUHHH

Later
Ryan


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## Psion (Mar 1, 2002)

Yep, if you're racing, you cannot keep every bird, especially if it is of no use. It is just affecting the good birds, taking up space, air, and since they are crowded, it is creating stress. Once they start breeding you are ending up with more useless birds. You might as well start out with culls and let them do as they will, because in the end, without eliminating the weak ones, they will all be weak.

Nick


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## fred2344 (Jan 9, 2002)

"YOU PEOPLE HAVE TO SEE THAT CULLING IS A HUGE PART OF KEEPING BIRDS HEALTHY AND BEING SUCCESSFUL WITH PIGEONS! lol..if you do not cull then you will go NOOOOOOO...WHERRRRREEEE with pigeons... and sellin your culls may work but anyone that wants good birds(as we all should) should not buy culls, and selling them to people may be just as stupid!"

I just wonder how the bird feels about this quote. I guess some of us think we are God.


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## Psion (Mar 1, 2002)

I think what he is saying fred, is that people shouldn't sell bad quality birds to people, who may be paying lots for them or hoping to race them. If they are just going to someone as a pet, it doesn't really matter the quality of the bird, as long as it makes someone happy.

Nick


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## fred2344 (Jan 9, 2002)

Nick,
I won't go any further. You know how I feel about culling.

------------------
"Until he extends the circle of compassion to all living things, man will not himself find peace."

Albert Schweitzer


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

OK, boys and girls,

I have referred the issue to Carl (Bigbird) who is the owner of this discussion list. As you all KNOW, culling is NOT a topic to be discussed here. At this point, three of the moderators have allowed this to go on. That would by myself, Fred, and Cindy. I am about ready to kill this thread myself because SOME of you are starting to get out of line. Keep it nice here, please, or this thread won't be here tomorrow regardless of what Bigbird decides.

Thank you!

Terry Whatley


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## bigbird (Aug 19, 2000)

I have decided to allow any and all discussion on "culling" to continue on this thread for the time being. This could change in the future. 

This is a "Racing Pigeon" forum; the subject of "culling" is "basic" to all racing people.

I have my opinion on this subject, and you have your opinion. Can we all "agree to disagree" here on this Racing Pigeon Forum?

Culling by "killing, or culling by "relocation" for unwanted racing pigeons and show pigeons, this is the main issue here, as I see it. 

There is no question in my mind that culling is a must for these two sports. But I see the "argument" to be just "how" these unwanted birds are culled. I think that "culling by killing" even one unwanted bird is inhumane. I think that there is a responsibility for all who "raise" pigeons, for what ever reason, to care for each bird that comes out of their loft. Humane Culling would suggest finding other homes for all unwanted birds. 
Thinking that you are doing the "sport" a service by killing all unwanted pigeons is a silly idea. I do not care how many "champion" pigeons you have in your loft, the more you have the better for you. But I happen to believe that "all" pigeons are beautiful and deserve a normal life, even the birds that cannot "fly" perfectly to win races, or do not have the correct "coloring" or "stance" to win show competition. 

If you do not like this discussion on "humane culling" and you do not like to read the various opposing arguments, I suggest you stay away from this forum and limit your activity to the "General Discussion" Forum, where all "culling" talk is "banned" and will be quickly deleted.
Thanks,
Carl


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## turkey (May 19, 2002)

OK, just to make sure everyone knows that I did not start a discussion about culling or cats, or cages, or any of those comments that seemed to be refered to my previous post. I was only commenting on the statement that was made to which I commented. (You can look it up)

I learn from all kinds of pigeon keepers, whether it be people who keep them in their home or people who raise fancy pigeons or people who race them. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I try to be open minded. 

My opinions on culling are mine. I don't feel that I have expressed them here. My comment was about responsibility. I'm sorry if it has started a problem on the culling debate. Maybe the topic was itching to start, but it was not my doing. 

Julie


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## Peterd (Feb 8, 2003)

Unfortunatley culling is sometimes a necessary evil,be you a racing,show fancier
or just a pigeon keeper.An incurable sick pigeon has to be culled to protect the rest.
I personally limit my breeding and only keep a small number of birds.The birds I cull by selling I would like to keep myself.The ones I don't want go to a pigeon seller,where they find a new home.Some,are eaten,but better that, then thrown in the garbage,at least they are not totaly wasted.In the last few years I've only had to take 7 or eight to this guy and they were purchased by some pigeon keepers.







How do I know,I talked to the purchasers and answered their questions as they purchased them.


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

I think what is happening is that people are speaking before putting their brain into gear and the wording is wrong for the situation.
For example - I took offence at what Nick said earlier - that if I cry over losing a bird then pigeons aren't for me.
I have kept pigeons on and off for 20 years and they all fly free. If I lose a bird I drive the streets for miles looking for it, and yes I'm upset - why shouldn't I be? Those birds are my friends. 
My first thought was - how dare he say pigeons aren't for me. He has no right to say that.
But what he actually meant was that Racing pigeons is not a hobby for me. And he's right. I don't race them. I keep them for pleasure.
If members just thought a little more about they way they expressed themselves, then offence would not be taken. Thinking about what Nick meant- not what he said, has stopped me from saying something I shouldn't. But if he thought about what he wrote first before posting it, then the problem would not arise.


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## WhiteWingsCa (Mar 1, 2002)

Just my 2 cents on this matter.

This IS a racing folder, but it IS part of pigeons.com, where the basic principal is that most of the members object to culling (when refered to as "killing").

That said, we are "guests" here on this forum, and should try to adhere to the moderators/owner's wishes.

If you don't like it, find another race forum. If you want to be rude, I can point out a couple of forums that would be perfect for you.....

We race, we raise birds for weddings,etc., we have "pet" pigeons, we sell birds. And YES, I sometimes cry when a special bird is lost, whether out flying, or taken by a hawk, or whatever. And YES, we do have some birds that we don't send out to certain races, or any races, because they've become dear to us, and we don't want to lose them. They aren't used as breeders, just foster-parents.

Carl (and the other moderators), it's up to you ... you can either shut down the threads that yak about culling, or this whole folder, for that matter. You can insist that the subject isn't discussed, after all, it IS your forum. 

Or, you can post a warning on the opening page of this particular folder, stating that there might be some discussion of culling, and that people who do not like the subject may want to avoid reading the posts here.

But then again, that might open a whole can of worms too, and attract people just looking for an arguement (lord knows I've seen THAT happen enough in other forums)

Maybe my first suggestion is the better idea....


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Good morning,
With respect to Pigeonsrule, I suggest any further discussions irrelevant to the original post re: 'pigeons & messages' be discontinued or continued via a new thread.
Thank You.
Cindy


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## Psion (Mar 1, 2002)

Nooti, and anyone else who took offence to what I said, I'm sorry. I didn't really mean for it to come out that way... but it did. So sorry about that. I wasn't neccesarily talking about culling by killing, I know I personally don't think I could do that (unless the bird was sick or something). Anyways, I'm done. Sorry.

Nick


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