# Long distance homer



## samuri_spartan (Aug 26, 2007)

I am wanting to start flying some birds at very long distances, just for my own enjoyment. I understand the birds have to be in top shape and very healthy, but Im wondering, what else can i do to ensure a safe return. What do all of you think? 

My goal is 1000mi.


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

The First thing you need to do--
KISS THEM GOODBYE.
When is the LAST time you went 3 days without food and water????????????


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

You don't want much do you? There are birds that can do that but they are far and few between.What kind of birds are you thinking of getting?
Dave


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## samuri_spartan (Aug 26, 2007)

sky tx said:


> The First thing you need to do--
> KISS THEM GOODBYE.
> When is the LAST time you went 3 days without food and water????????????


Funny you say that, cause I do fasts and go a full week with out eating, and still continue to function normally. And when is the LAST time you drove 1000 miles without seeing a lake, or stream, or river, or pond... long distance racers come home with mud on their feet all the time. Where do you think that mud came from?

Dave, I know im asking for a lot. Its somthing ive really put thought into. I plan on using racing homer stock. 

I have the AU 2009 yearbook and in the back they have a section with national speed records. They have records from just 88mi to 2039mi. Check it out yourself, its POSSIBLE, and im going to do it. I just want to know if anyone has any suggestions on how i could get a bird in the condition to fly that distance.


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## samuri_spartan (Aug 26, 2007)

My only problem with the finding the right bloodline is most of the fliers who set those records set them in the 1960-1980.


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Well SAMURI--you know how you get ready to fests--so condition your birds the same as you do .
Did the AU book tell you if the birds flew into a Head Wind-Tail Wind--Cross Wind-the Temps they flew in.
Yes a dumbass Texan Here--as I only Raced pigeons fro 31 years.--Wish I had known you back then--I'm sure I would have done better in the Races with your knowledge.
My Pigeons can Pull A Fright Train---couple them up.


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## samuri_spartan (Aug 26, 2007)

Seriously Sky? Fests? What is that? And whats with the pessimistic attitude and condescending tone? I just happen to be reading another thread that you had contributed to and it was the same thing. I have no idea why you are so upset.

The AU book did not tell me those things, if it did I wouldnt be asking about them. I am not claiming to have great race "knowledge" as you put it, if i did i wouldnt be asking questions. If I had complete confidence in my current conditioning plan, i wouldnt be wasting anyones time with this thread. 

Does anyone have anything constructive to add to this thread? 

P.S. Sky, you pigeons "can Pull A Fright Train"? What pigeons?


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## GEMcC5150 (Oct 24, 2010)

samuri_spartan said:


> Seriously Sky? Fests? What is that? And whats with the pessimistic attitude and condescending tone? I just happen to be reading another thread that you had contributed to and it was the same thing. I have no idea why you are so upset.
> 
> The AU book did not tell me those things, if it did I wouldnt be asking about them. I am not claiming to have great race "knowledge" as you put it, if i did i wouldnt be asking questions. If I had complete confidence in my current conditioning plan, i wouldnt be wasting anyones time with this thread.
> 
> ...


You need to hear what is being said 1000 mile is a goal but to do that you will go through a LOT LOT LOT of birds. If that what you see as the sport of hobby then by all means go for it. I lost 10 birds today on just a 25 mile toss. Good luck I think you will need it.


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

I enjoy misspelling words--makes you wonder what I mean?????????????
And gives you something to comment about.

Did I say Pull a fright train?????? SORRY I ment they can PUSH a Fright Train.


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## samuri_spartan (Aug 26, 2007)

GEMcC5150 said:


> You need to hear what is being said 1000 mile is a goal but to do that you will go through a LOT LOT LOT of birds. If that what you see as the sport of hobby then by all means go for it. I lost 10 birds today on just a 25 mile toss. Good luck I think you will need it.


This i understand, and is my exact reason for reaching out for information to possibly mitigate the losses. Thanks for the luck, I will definitely need it.


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## akbird (Apr 29, 2010)

When I lived in Alaska, I had a bird that I sold to a guy in Seattle return. That's about 1400 miles. I didn't train it to do that, did fly it out to 300 miles as a YB though. It was a multiple 1st place club winner. I still have the parents. It is possible to have 1000 mile birds but they will be rare. Go for it!!


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

I'm sure SAMURI will keep this site posted with his sucess.
Sorry I can't help him as I have only flown pigeons 600 miles.


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## samuri_spartan (Aug 26, 2007)

sky tx said:


> I enjoy misspelling words--makes you wonder what I mean?????????????
> And gives you something to comment about.
> 
> Did I say Pull a fright train?????? SORRY I ment they can PUSH a Fright Train.


Sky, you old dinosaur. Why do are you such an instigator, is it because they cancelled Glen Beck? I was meaning, if you have birds that can PUSH/PULL a train, sell me some and I will train them to 1000 miles.


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

SAMURI----it will take a FULL DECK of credit cards and 2 CHECK books to even think about buying one of my birds.


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## GEMcC5150 (Oct 24, 2010)

Please leave Sky Tx alone He has forgotten more than most will ever know. Think of him as a resource that has been there and not as someone to compete with. If you like what he tell you say thank you if you don’t just say nothing.


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Thanks GEM--but let Samuri mouth OFF.
It will keep his bowels moveing on Schedule.


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## samuri_spartan (Aug 26, 2007)

sky tx said:


> SAMURI----it will take a FULL DECK of credit cards and 2 CHECK books to even think about buying one of my birds.





sky tx said:


> AZ--thanks for the offer--But after Racing pigeon for 31 years I had to get rid of my birds in Oct. 2007.
> Age and Health finally caught up with me.
> To stay in touch with the Sport I started collecting Racing Pigeon Bands/Rings.
> I now have about 5300 different bands from 90-91 countries.


GMcC5150, That does not give anyone the right to patronize another person, but you're right, I will say nothing more.


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## samuri_spartan (Aug 26, 2007)

akbird said:


> When I lived in Alaska, I had a bird that I sold to a guy in Seattle return. That's about 1400 miles. I didn't train it to do that, did fly it out to 300 miles as a YB though. It was a multiple 1st place club winner. I still have the parents. It is possible to have 1000 mile birds but they will be rare. Go for it!!


Now that is what im looking for. Do you know how much time passed from when i got loose to when i showed up?


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## akbird (Apr 29, 2010)

4 days. It was a little thin and dirty looking but other than that he looked pretty good. I couldn't believe it when I saw him as I had already torn down my loft and he landed on our shed. I went out opened the shed door and he flew right in. I picked him up and checked the band # then checked my sale records and sure enough that was one of the birds I sent to Seattle. I called the guy to ask if it had gotten out and he replied he thought he could settle it. He didn't want it back so I gave it to a fellow flyer who is using it as a breeder. As I said, I still have the parents, both are 2002's. I just got back into birds 2 years ago. Had a friend keep this pair for me until I got down to Oregon.


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## mill pigeon (Apr 2, 2008)

theres a guy in new jersey that has a family of birds that hes flown out to 800 miles and is going for the 1000 mile mark
if i were you thats the birds i would get he's already proven the family out to 800 miles thats the closest thing around here unless you go to europe and buy some pigeons from a barcelona flyer that flies over 1000 miles
they do it in europe why not here 
just my 2 cents


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## lgfout (Feb 8, 2011)

check out this website:
http://pigeon_racingsc.tripod.com/trentons.html

good luck...


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## lmorales4 (Jul 8, 2010)

Keep posting us on your progress Samurai I think you have a great Idea and theres nothing wrong with thinking outside the box even if it is not appreciated or encouraged by some people on this forum.


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## NayNay (Mar 16, 2011)

It is an interesting goal- and it sounds like maybe the human equivalent of those multi day adventure races that used to be popular- until that famous climber died on the course. Could have happened in any other situation but it happened to happen during a race. I imagine people still do that- but that the TV networks are no longer into it.

If the records were set that long ago, I imagine that the changes in the interests of the flyers is more to "blame" than the birds themselves. I am a newbie, but just from the little while I have been around, I have heard - or gotten the impression that young bird racing is more popular than Old Bird- where the distances can be greater. 

However, there still is some interest- like this race for example- which was won last year by a guy in Seattle :

http://web.me.com/dsmetana/WESTERN_OPEN_2010/Western_Open.html

I think it was somewhere in the 800 mile range for him. This race intrigues me since it is intended to include flyers all along the western half of the country in one big race. Not sure how you would condition them except maybe race OB out to the farthest normal race distances, then take it further by shipping them to someone who would care for them for a week, then release them, and see how they do. That is how I would do it. Race YB, then race OB, then keep training them further out. But that is just me thinking out loud- I honestly am totally new, and just learning- but I am still Learning; meaning the brain is open, and likes to think. So, please keep us posted, cuz I may want to try that Western Open someday, and that is an extra 90 miles from Seattle to my place for any birds of mine in the race- so, pretty close to your 1000mi goal.


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## NayNay (Mar 16, 2011)

Oh- and body type of the bird seems to be the biggest determining factor of speed vs distance- not sure if you knew that, but I thought I'd mention it. I believe it is like marathon runners vs 50 meter sprinters- small and tough to go the distance- but I may have that wrong.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

I didn't mean just racing stock, do you plan on getting Fabrys or Sion. I would try to mix my own and this is going to be a 3 to 5 year thing. Don't use birds with white flights or rc, you want bb or bc they have better feather for the long distance.
Dave


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## West (Mar 29, 2009)

NayNay said:


> It is an interesting goal- and it sounds like maybe the human equivalent of those multi day adventure races that used to be popular- until that famous climber died on the course. Could have happened in any other situation but it happened to happen during a race. I imagine people still do that- but that the TV networks are no longer into it.
> 
> If the records were set that long ago, I imagine that the changes in the interests of the flyers is more to "blame" than the birds themselves. I am a newbie, but just from the little while I have been around, I have heard - or gotten the impression that young bird racing is more popular than Old Bird- where the distances can be greater.
> 
> ...


Jerry King in the Everett club won the 500-599 category but not overall last year. In fact he was the only person with a bird home in this area. Distance for him was 526 miles. Washington is a rough place to race long distance.


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## lgfout (Feb 8, 2011)

the Midwest classic apparently has dropped their 2 long distance sections. It may be hard to find a race that still supports the very long races???

http://www.midwesthpa.com/index.htm


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

Crazy Pete said:


> Don't use birds with white flights or rc, you want bb or bc they have better feather for the long distance.
> Dave


I don't know about a 1,000 miles but I know I've heard of many white birds win a 500 miles...they are good at long distance too, well today's long distance.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

I'm not saying that whites can't fly, just the feather is not as tough. I have a white that is an AU champion and by the time the season was over the flight feathers were in pretty bad shape.
Dave


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## samuri_spartan (Aug 26, 2007)

Crazy Pete said:


> I didn't mean just racing stock, do you plan on getting Fabrys or Sion. I would try to mix my own and this is going to be a 3 to 5 year thing. Don't use birds with white flights or rc, you want bb or bc they have better feather for the long distance.
> Dave


Dave,
I will look into getting some Sions or Trentons, i think. I have some blood from Gary Boomershine of Wichita Ks, out of Steven Van Breeman, Verslijpe Janssen, and Calia Janssen. Boomer had multiple 600mi day birds. 

Who breeds good long distance Sions and Trentons?


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## Matt Bell (May 5, 2010)

Look for Oshaben Trentons...they are probably about as close to trentons as you can get anymore. Also, Skylake Sions, but a lot of his birds are RC/Silvers/Whites/ and Splashes. But he does have some BB and BC birds. If you are really in Pratt, KS you have some flyers pretty close that you may think about getting in touch with. I used to fly in the 'Kansas Combine' which consisted of members in SW KS, mostly Dodge and Garden Cities. There is a fellow out around Johnson, KS named Doug Peppler who was very hard to beat on the long distance races, but a lot of his birds were RCs that were winning. I know Wichita has some good flyers, and so does the Kansas City area.

You may look at the diet as well when prepping for a race like that. Make sure you give them plenty of safflower/peanuts before shipping in order to build reserve fuel over a course. Also I have heard about loading the bird with water manually with an eyedropper, and also by doing it with rice which was soaked in water, obviously this is to help with dehydration.

One last thing, to my loft our 600 mile station was 606 miles, and was right on the Mexican border, the name of the town escapes me right now, it was Ft. something-or-other. Anyways, you probably wouldn't want to fly out of Mexico, that would be a pain, you wouldn't want to fly from the west as they would have to come over the Rockies, don't want to fly north for that distance as those would be head wind conditions in Kansas, leaves you flying east/southeast. Just something to think about.


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## rpalmer (Mar 10, 2011)

samuri_spartan said:


> I am wanting to start flying some birds at very long distances, just for my own enjoyment. I understand the birds have to be in top shape and very healthy, but Im wondering, what else can i do to ensure a safe return. What do all of you think?
> 
> My goal is 1000mi.


What I have read is to wait until your bird is 3 years old before you take it to 500 miles. It should have two 500 mile "tosses" before going to 1000 miles. The 1K should be in it's fourth year at the soonest. Here is a link for you ... http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/8813657

There has been a problem with this link for the last couple of days. Keep trying it. 

http://www.loftone.net/trentons.htm


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

I don't no how to find her but Lori Oshaben was still selling her dads birds when eggbid was still up. Autry Farms Loft has some for sale on Ipigeon now.
Dave


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Give up trying to tell Samuri anything..Post number 4 he stated he already knows everthing he need to know.
I'm not sure why he even asked for advice.
My Pigeons can Pull or Push a Fright Train.


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## rpalmer (Mar 10, 2011)

Crazy Pete said:


> I don't no how to find her but Lori Oshaben was still selling her dads birds when eggbid was still up. Autry Farms Loft has some for sale on Ipigeon now.
> Dave


http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/8813657


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## NayNay (Mar 16, 2011)

West said:


> Jerry King in the Everett club won the 500-599 category but not overall last year. In fact he was the only person with a bird home in this area. Distance for him was 526 miles. Washington is a rough place to race long distance.


Ahh- facts don't stick in my brain as well as the general idea- the picture my brain creates. Thanks for helping to keep me living in reality. Why so hard for Wa to go long? mountains, BOP, etc?


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## West (Mar 29, 2009)

I think all of the above to include high probability of birds encountering low cloud cover or fog on the course home. I also believe the farther north you go the more geomagnetic conditions affect the birds homing abilities.


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## samuri_spartan (Aug 26, 2007)

Thank you all so much for all the information and links!!! Ive got a lot of research and reading to do. This forum is such a great resource for all sorts of pigeon stuff. 

Im going to start flying my young birds at a distance regularly and I will definitely wait till their second or third full year to start flying further than 500mi. 

Matt, my first thought was to fly out of El Paso, but thats only 700mi. My best bet would be to fly from the north east coast of FL. Looking at the map, Im realizing how daunting of a task this is going to be, good thing I am a young man and I have years to work my way up. What do you think about flying out of Washing D.C.?


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## NayNay (Mar 16, 2011)

West said:


> I think all of the above to include high probability of birds encountering low cloud cover or fog on the course home. I also believe the farther north you go the more geomagnetic conditions affect the birds homing abilities.


Huh- that is interesting. makes sense in a way to me though I don't totally get the science. But, the big ball we live on gets skinnier in circumference at either the north or south end of it. I am gonna have to discuss this stuff with my surveying instructor once school starts up again in a few weeks.


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

SAMURI--you really need to fly from the East to West.
Sun rise to sun set.
Not sure how to figure it ---but ????? ever 300 miles is another 15-20 minutes of daylight.
That way they have more daylight to fly with.


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## samuri_spartan (Aug 26, 2007)

Hutchinson, KS (where i live) 38° 3' 38" N
Washington DC 38° 53' 42" N

DC is not too much farther north


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## samuri_spartan (Aug 26, 2007)

Sky, that is a very valid point. If they flew from the east that might give them extra daylight.


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## akbird (Apr 29, 2010)

Back in the 60's I flew in the South Florida Combine and we had a 1000 mi race. I think the same guy won it every year we had it. The prize was a trip to South America. If I remember correctly, the birds were released in Washington D.C. It was grizzle that won it.


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

When I caught the bird for shipping--I would hold it and the Wife would fill it up with water.


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## samuri_spartan (Aug 26, 2007)

sky tx said:


> When I caught the bird for shipping--I would hold it and the Wife would fill it up with water.


What would you use? Eye dropper? Syringe?


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## lgfout (Feb 8, 2011)

samuri_spartan said:


> Thank you all so much for all the information and links!!! Ive got a lot of research and reading to do. This forum is such a great resource for all sorts of pigeon stuff.
> 
> Im going to start flying my young birds at a distance regularly and I will definitely wait till their second or third full year to start flying further than 500mi.
> 
> Matt, my first thought was to fly out of El Paso, but thats only 700mi. My best bet would be to fly from the north east coast of FL. Looking at the map, Im realizing how daunting of a task this is going to be, good thing I am a young man and I have years to work my way up. What do you think about flying out of Washing D.C.?


Don't fly west...you would end your experiment very quickly!!


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Syringe. EYE DROPPER would take too long.--lots of time for filling it up.


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## g-pigeon (Aug 24, 2010)

WWW.goldstarloft.com. he claims his birds are great long distance fliers


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## GEMcC5150 (Oct 24, 2010)

sky tx said:


> When I caught the bird for shipping--I would hold it and the Wife would fill it up with water.


I understand the thought. I know you will need a pump something to move water Sky were you happy with the 1/2 HP motor or did you think it should have been bigger maybe 3/4 or even 1HP. I know with smaller pump thing take longer and they may start lossing water before you can get them all filled and shiped. By any chanch do you have any pictures of your filling station?


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## g-pigeon (Aug 24, 2010)

I am always learning from skys post. Common sense when you hear it .fly from sunrise to sunset.


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

GEMcC5150 said:


> I understand the thought. I know you will need a pump something to move water Sky were you happy with the 1/2 HP motor or did you think it should have been bigger maybe 3/4 or even 1HP. I know with smaller pump thing take longer and they may start lossing water before you can get them all filled and shiped. By any chanch do you have any pictures of your filling station?


*Here is a pic of the pigeon filling station.*

Sorry the pic came in so big...

View attachment 21147


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## Matt Bell (May 5, 2010)

samuri_spartan said:


> Matt, my first thought was to fly out of El Paso, but thats only 700mi. My best bet would be to fly from the north east coast of FL. Looking at the map, Im realizing how daunting of a task this is going to be, good thing I am a young man and I have years to work my way up. What do you think about flying out of Washing D.C.?


Well, personally if this were something that I was going to take on I would want to start them as far south as I could for this distance, for flying into Kansas. I know that DC isn't that much more North, but with the prevailing winds coming out of the south it will push them further North into an arc (think the air plane flight patterns you see on TV) and that is just adding more distance onto their already long flight. I think that Florida would be the way to go, also because their are many knowledgable pigeon flyers there that may be willing to house the birds for a few days before release if this is what you are wanting. Also sky's point of flying from sunrise to sunset is a great point, over 1000 mile flight, it could gain them an extra hour of flight time which is a great advantage, one I hadn't even thought about. The 'pump' which was shown is exactly what I was thinking for a water filling station, I have never done it, but have read about it and its pretty simple to do. Please do keep us updated, and if there are more thoughts/questions post away.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

samuri_spartan said:


> This i understand, and is my exact reason for reaching out for information to possibly mitigate the losses. Thanks for the luck, I will definitely need it.


* Hi Samuri, The Trenton breed was a long distance bird back in the 1930's.There is a club, the American Trenton Breeders ( ATB), they are members of the IF (INTERNATIONAL FEDERATION) I have their year book for 2009 and there is a listing for the ABT Jerry Johnson, lives in Ohio, here is his phone number (419)487-1622 or e-mail [email protected] this club still deals in long races. Contact them they may be able to help you.* GEORGE


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

samuri_spartan said:


> Thank you all so much for all the information and links!!! Ive got a lot of research and reading to do. This forum is such a great resource for all sorts of pigeon stuff.
> 
> Im going to start flying my young birds at a distance regularly and I will definitely wait till their second or third full year to start flying further than 500mi.
> 
> Matt, my first thought was to fly out of El Paso, but thats only 700mi. My best bet would be to fly from the north east coast of FL. Looking at the map, Im realizing how daunting of a task this is going to be, good thing I am a young man and I have years to work my way up. What do you think about flying out of Washing D.C.?


*Hi Samuri,In the AU yearbook you will see that the 4 longest records were flown to the HIGHLAND PARK RACING PIGEON CLUB,TEXAS. I rember reading that the birds were released some place up north,OHIO,MICHIGAN, or ILLINOIS. I will have to look around in my books and magazines to see if i can find the info on the release points. GOOD LUCK IN YOUR QUEST * GEORGE


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## g-pigeon (Aug 24, 2010)

have you ever done the filling station ace?


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

g-pigeon said:


> have you ever done the filling station ace?


No, I have not. I only race young birds and my farthest races were 325 miles. For those races I would feed them a few peanuts and they would go and drink before I basketed them. 

I use the water bulb if I have to take over feeding young and for sick or hurt birds.

Hey G- I had another one hit a wire yesterday. It has one broken leg. I splinted it but he is out of training for now. As soon as it is healed he will have to catch up to the rest of them. They have been out of the loft 20 times now and have been 2 miles east and west. By this time next week they will be at 20 miles.


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## g-pigeon (Aug 24, 2010)

*sorry to hear that*

Hi ace
Another wire sorry to hear that. You are moving them out to 20 next week. That's great. How many are you training. Are there wires by your house or the release points.


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## ccccrnr (Jun 15, 2010)

*way to go*



samuri_spartan said:


> Thank you all so much for all the information and links!!! Ive got a lot of research and reading to do. This forum is such a great resource for all sorts of pigeon stuff.
> 
> Im going to start flying my young birds at a distance regularly and I will definitely wait till their second or third full year to start flying further than 500mi.
> 
> Matt, my first thought was to fly out of El Paso, but thats only 700mi. My best bet would be to fly from the north east coast of FL. Looking at the map, Im realizing how daunting of a task this is going to be, good thing I am a young man and I have years to work my way up. What do you think about flying out of Washing D.C.?


Hi Samuri Spartan, great topic, i thinking of the same thing, but that it may take 3 to 4 generations and a bit of luck, breeding for it


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

g-pigeon said:


> Hi ace
> Another wire sorry to hear that. You are moving them out to 20 next week. That's great. How many are you training. Are there wires by your house or the release points.


They will move out to 4 miles,6, 8, 10, 15 and 20. Moving farther every day. 

The first one was at a release point. This one was at home. I have 25 young birds. I started with 28. After loosing a son of 830 and 836 I pulled the other two for stock. Other than that I still have no other losses.


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## NayNay (Mar 16, 2011)

That filling station thing looks like what you get for clearing out a human baby's nostrils when they are sick- am I right?


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