# Bird Flu Question



## kajupakhi (Aug 2, 2004)

Hi All,
*I was wondering what steps do I need to take up to protect my birds from bird flu.*
I have 2 healthy, male pigeons, one is 6 years old and the other is 2 years old. They are indoor birds, and never fly outside, however, they don’t exactly stay indoors, they stay in our Verandah/ Balcony and other pigeons come there to feed themselves on the grains scattered by my birds, so u see, my birds are in close proximity with other street pigeons.
Should I prevent other birds from coming near them? I don’t like the idea of making them live in isolation, but will do so if that is what it takes to keep them safe till the risks of bird flu is over.
Also are there any vaccines, shots, medicines that can be helpful to protect them from the flu?
My birds are in India, but I am in USA now, if possible, I can send some medicines over to India(unless prevented by customs)


Thanks in advance for all your suggestions…
KAjupakhi


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## stach_n_flash (Mar 15, 2006)

i hope some one replies i wouldnt worry to much if they were my birds because i dont think pigeons carry the deases as much as other birds might i dont know much on this subject so hopfully some one else can reply


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

kajupakhi said:


> Hi All,
> *I was wondering what steps do I need to take up to protect my birds from bird flu.*
> I have 2 healthy, male pigeons, one is 6 years old and the other is 2 years old. They are indoor birds, and never fly outside, however, they don’t exactly stay indoors, they stay in our Verandah/ Balcony and other pigeons come there to feed themselves on the grains scattered by my birds, so u see, my birds are in close proximity with other street pigeons.
> Should I prevent other birds from coming near them? I don’t like the idea of making them live in isolation, but will do so if that is what it takes to keep them safe till the risks of bird flu is over.
> ...



I think the bird flu is the least of your concerns. Allowing you two healthy pigeons to mingle with a wild flock consistently will eventually lead to trouble with your two. I would not recommend what you are doing. Your birds should be vaccinated against PMV, Paratyphoid and Pox. Ferals, through no fault of thier own, do carry things like worms, feather mites and other things that would not harm a human (so many humans think pigeons are diseased and filthy) but can be given to your birds. Especially of they are eating and drinking together. JMO>.....


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

It is important that you be able to prove that your pet pigeons have not been exposed to possibly infected wild birds or their feces. There are vaccines available in some areas of Europe but none available here in the US that I know of as yet. I don't know about India.

Terry


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Kajupakhi, 

I agree with Lovebirds, you really shouldn't allow your pigeons to mingle with a wild flock. Eventually, they will pick something up from them; maybe something not so bad like parasites, but then again they could get a virus like PMV which is harder to deal with. Best you just don't allow this because it is a concern.

Hope all is well and you must be looking forward to getting home to see them


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Go to this thread and read it:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=15194

Pidgey


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

If you go to the *News* section of our site, there is information listed from current newspapers that give some up-to-date info on pigeons and the bird flu...


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Vaccines exist but are being withheld in many countries because vaccinated birds while able to survive illness can still be carriers of the disease. Pigeons are not one of the birds at great risk of contracting bird-flu in any case so vaccinations, if they are available in India, are likely a waste of your money anyway.

As others have said there are greater risks to your pigeons by coming in contact with wild birds. Especially if there are feces of the wild birds present on the deck that might be consumed by your birds inadvertantly along with their seed, and/or shared water dishes which is another source of cross contamination.

Cameron


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I used to let some ferals come into my living room to eat. Angel, one of my first pet pigeons was always joining them and she did pick up pigeon flies and canker. 
My point is, it is not a good idea to let your pets join the ferals for a meal or socializing, you don't know what they might pick up.

Reti


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*Protecting your pigeons* first and foremost means keeping them from being exposed to wild birds.

Keep them in an enclosure/coop where they are not confined, it should be roomy.

If your birds have access to an aviary be sure there is a roof on it where wild bird droppings can't come into the aviary.

Birds can get diseases from wild birds, there is always that possibilty, and once they are sick then they are open to other diseases as their immune system is compromised.

Keep your birds on a good preventive program.


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## kajupakhi (Aug 2, 2004)

Hello Stach n Flash, Lovebirds, Terry, Brad, Pidgey, Mr Squeaks, Cameron, Reti, Treesa,

Thank you all for your replies, suggestions, and help…REALLY APPRECIATED HOW U GUYS ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THE WELL BEING OF MY BIRDS…
*AFTER READING YOUR POSTS, I HAVE COMPLETELY DROPPED THE IDEA OF LETTING MY BIRDS SOCIALIZE WITH WILD PIGEONS!!!!*Well, my birds live in a REALLY HUGE cage (big enough to make short flights inside the cage)covered with nets on side and I have additionally covered the top completely to make sure that wild bird poops cannot enter their nest. Also as of now they do not have any worms in their body and lice in feathers coz I give them locally available worm-killing medicines and lice-killing powders along with their dozes of vitamins, minerals etc needed for their general well being as prescribed by their vet( I often take them to vets for general check ups). Also they have their own seed cups for eating and drinking. But they are messy eaters and scatter seeds outside their nest and the wild pigeons eat those scattered seeds. So you see, my birds are not exactly in physical contact with the other wild birds,
*HOWEVER, THOSE WILD BIRDS CAN COME VERY CLOSE TO THEIR NESTS*(infact sometimes, I have noticed that the wild birds trying to enter their beaks inside Kaju’s and Peppy’s netted cage in an attempt to get seeds from inside their cage).
Kaju is not very territorial, but Peppy is EXTREMELY Territorrial, so any time another bird from outside comes near their nest, Peppy comes very close to the bird to jump, grunt , and fight. So although he cannot come out of cage to fight, but it comes to very close proximity with the birds. I am not so worried about the lice, and worms as they are not directly in contact with the wild ones, but AFTER READING THE REPLIES BY U GUYS, I AM REALLY *CONCERNED ABOUT THE DISEASES THAT MIGHT BE SPREAD THROUGH AIR DUE TO THEIR CLOSE PROXIMITY TO WILD PIGEONS. Can u tell me what kind of diseases might spread through air, and how great are the chances???????? *From now on I will try my best to make sure that none of these birds come to our balcony, but its impossible to keep an eye 24/7. Besides, *our apartment and the one next to ours are the homes of many wild pigeons, they sleep at night, roost etc anywhere they can in our building, so even if they wont come to our balcony, that does not mean that they are not close to my birds, coz they all live very close to my birds in our buildings!!!!!! WHAT WILL I DO?????????* Any suggestions are welcome. My birds are non-releasable, so I take them out of their nest to hang around indoors in our house for 2 to3 hours everyday and after that whenever they want to come out of their nest, I let them out inside the house, *BUT I HATE THE IDEA OF KEEPING THEM INDOORS ALL THE TIME, COZ THEY LOVE TO LOOK OUTSIDE INTO THE SKY*, FEEL Nature, and look down where they can have a great view of the street below with all cars, people…they would get bored to death if they were to stay indoors all the time. Besides, in India, the houses are very different from here, there is no “controlled temperature” there with heat and AC in every house, all the doors and windows are kept open for fresh air and ventilation all the time, so they can get infected through air even if they are indoors all the time…
ANY SUGGESTIONS ARE WELCOME!!!
Its good to know that there is not much threat of BirdFlu…Although I never asked the doctors there about the Paratyphoid and Pox vaccines(thanks LoveBirds for bringing it to my notice), but I did ask about PMV and they said that they do not have it yet in India *DO U THINK THAT I CAN TAKE THEM FROM USA TO INDIA DIRECTLY AND THEN HAND THEM TO THE DOCTORS TO VACCINATE THEM?????????? *
Once again thanks a lot for all your replies, suggestions and concerns.
KAjupakhi


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

kajupakhi said:


> Its good to know that there is not much threat of BirdFlu…Although I never asked the doctors there about the Paratyphoid and Pox vaccines(thanks LoveBirds for bringing it to my notice), but I did ask about PMV and they said that they do not have it yet in India *DO U THINK THAT I CAN TAKE THEM FROM USA TO INDIA DIRECTLY AND THEN HAND THEM TO THE DOCTORS TO VACCINATE THEM?????????? *
> Once again thanks a lot for all your replies, suggestions and concerns.
> KAjupakhi[/FONT]


I think as long as the ferals are not eating and drinking with your birds, you're pretty safe. I could be wrong, but it seems that even though the feral may be "close" to your birds, it sounds like they are in an "outdoor" enviroment rather than an enclosed room so airborne diseases may not be that big of a factor. As far as the vaccines, the think about those is you have to purchase them in 50 or 100 doses if a vet is not doing the vaccinations. I don't know how you would get these meds to India and 50 doses is a big waste if you only have a couple of birds. Maybe these things aren't a factor in India. I really don't know. It sounds like to me that you pretty much have everything covered. Sounds like your babies have the best of care.


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## shoebster (Apr 3, 2006)

everyone is telling that pigeons are neutral to bird flu.hope so.
But they are also birds.And the name BIRD flu sugests a disease of birds.If we buy new birds from the bird market(there is a colony of bird stores, so we call it bird market in india) will the birds still be safe againts flu.I don think because there a thosands of birds kept togeather in small cages.
Is there any vaccine that we can give it to newly bought pigeons (in india)? can anyone tell the name of the vaccine please.Because i wanted to be on the safe side.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I don't see why you couldn't take vaccines purchased in the US with you to India. If you don't have PMV in India you can skip that one.
The vaccines are sold in 50 or 100 doses but they are not that expensive so it is still worth bying them. You can leave the rest at your vets and he could use it for other pigeons, if he has pigeon patients. That is what I did.
Some diseases, like pox, can also be transmitted through insects, so it would be safer if your pigeons wouldn't come in close contact with your birds.

Reti


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## kajupakhi (Aug 2, 2004)

Hi, Lovebirds, Shoebster and Reti,
Thanks for your reply.
Lovebirds-“it seems that even though the feral may be "close" to your birds, it sounds like they are in an "outdoor" enviroment rather than an enclosed room”---

---well, my birds live in bird cages with similar metal nets found in cages here, and the only wall that separates my birds from wild birds are these cage walls, so u see, they can easily get any diseases or germs through air ( even dried little pieces of pigeon poops that may be blown by the wind into their cage)…uptill now, even though I did consider the airborne diseases as a risk for them, but never really gave much importance to it, HOWEVER after reading everybody’s reactions in the forum, *I AM REALLY SCARED NOW!!! IT’S A BIG PROBLEM AND I CANNOT THINK OF HOW TO SOLVE IT!!!! The maximum that I can do within my capacity is to not let those birds come to my balcony, but as I said before, those birds permanently live, and roost in our buildings and very close to the cage of my birds, like on the Brick ceil/roof of the balcony( i ,e just above my birds cage) or on the ceil of the balcony of the apartment that’s just below our’s, ( i,e just below my bird’s cage)..and those wild birds have been living there and have made it their natural habitat for the past 10 years!!!!!!!!!!!!* After reading all your responses, I think that it is a miracle that Kaju( the older of the 2 I have) has survived 6 years of his life in this environment without being affected by their germs!!!!(…or maybe, those wild birds are really healthy…who knows!!! I haven’t seen any diseased ones uptill now, though!!!!!!!!!!!!)…it is not within my capacity, also I think its cruel to destroy their natural habitats and homes…so seems like the only other option is to keep my birds indoors permanently, but that’s too sad and then they will have to live in small cages!!!! I AM REALLY IN A DELEMA NOW…
However, I am thinking of buying the vaccines, to be on the safe side, SPECIALLY NOW THAT I KNOW HOW DANGEROUS THE SITUATION IS FOR MY BIRDS 

Shoebster--- (there is a colony of bird stores, so we call it bird market in india)

---*ARE YOU FROM INDAI??????????????????????????? *If so, then I will be so happy!!!!!!!!!!! There are not too many people here from India!!! If you are from India, the maybe I can help you with the vaccines if I can manage to take some from here. I will be very happy if I can help save some pigeons in India due to my advantage of having access to medicines of the West!!!

Reti--- The vaccines are sold in 50 or 100 doses but they are not that expensive so it is still worth buying them.

---Thanks a lot for the suggestion, can you give me an estimate of the price of these vaccines and where to find them to buy?? Also, how big and heavy are they in size when sold in dozes of 50 or 100. Do u have any idea about the custom’s rules about this. The last time I tried taking meds from here, a lot of them were taken out of my luggage by customs.

Thanks again for all your replies
KAjupakhi


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## shoebster (Apr 3, 2006)

hi kajupakhi.
yes I am too from india.I find very less pigeon breeders in india.First ofall I would like to thank you for the veccine idea.BUt last week I have sold all my pigeons due to the threat of bird flu.You must be knowing that we dont find here bird vets.There are vets here but only of dogs and cats .So if the birds are effected once then there is no chance of saving them.It happened wiht me some 7-8 years back and I had lost all my birds due to some disease(I dont know what is it called but in that pigeons dont eat anything and just go round and round and then die).Them after about 1 year I started breeding them again till last week.I didnt wanted my birds to die in front of my eyes because I love them very much.That is why i sold them all to a well known pigeon breeder.He is a pigeon expert.So i dont have to worry now.
but i am really missing them .
I dont know how to post pictures here.Outherwise I would have shown u my pictures of pigeons.
hope your birds stay healty.


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## kajupakhi (Aug 2, 2004)

Hi Shoebster,
Thanks a lot for your reply. I am so glad to hear that you are from India and sad that you had to sell all your birds!!! hope you buy new birds soon when the flu is over...YES!!! I AM SO FRUSTRATED WITH THE LACK OF AVIAN VETS THERE!!! they are all for dogs and cats, even most of the medicines I give to my birds are for dogs!!! and the worst part is that they wont even let me take them from here due to customs!!! its a shame that neither will they make their own meds nor will they let me take it from here...and its not like I am planning to take them from here to start my own buisness and make huge profits...I am only trying to protect my own birds!!!

However, I guess that no country is perfect...over here in the Western World, although u will find enough avian vets and medicines, but on the other hand there also exists TOTALLY CRAZY AND CRUEL MEANS OF ANIMAL CONTROL such as poisoning pigeons or trapping and killing them...JUST IMAGINE HOW CRUEL AND CRAZY SOME PEOPLE HERE CAN BE... IN OUR SOCIETY IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO IMAGINE ANYONE DOING SOMETHING AS BAD AS THAT!!!!
When I was new in west, it came as a shock to me how people here hated pigeons and considered them to be pests who make the place dirty!!!! 
well these are very beautiful countries and people really work hard to keep it clean...which is good!!! but still we animal lovers can never really justify killing for that purpose...

Well, in India, atleast we very naturally share our natural habitats with the animals AND NEVER FOR ONCE THINK OF TRAPPING AND KILLING THEM...we have no problems living with cows, birds, cats, dogs, everywhere around us, walking on the street where we walk, sleeping under the tree in front of our houses, raising babies in some corner of the street!!!! over here in the West, u cannot imagine driving your car and honking at a cow who is walking lazily on the street... which is an everyday affair in India...animals and humans are so comfortable living in harmony, and sharing the same habitat that even the cows know that when a car honks, they need to move aside and let the car go by!!!! its hard for my friends here to belive this...they laugh and get amused, but its so natural to us...*had I not set foot in these foreign lands, I would never have realised this amazing ability of my people in India to adjust themselves so naturally with animals!!!! *.

So here's how I justify the whole situation:
even though there is not enough medicines for pigeons here, but atleast they are WAY MORE SAFE FROM INHUMAN CONTROLS AND FREE TO LIVE ALONGSIDE HUMANS!!!!! ...so its not really that bad after all...

btw seems like your birds were PMV victims, its sad that they died due to lack of meds...where in India are u from? I am from Kolkata

KAjupakhi


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## shoebster (Apr 3, 2006)

hi kajupakhi.
I am from hyderabad.
I must say it is such a great post.You said everything about india in that. 
I am thinking to take a break from pigeon breeding.
the people here are lovely.They are so helpful and graceful too.you also try to show your pigeon pictures.it ll be really nice.
I hope one day pigeon vets or atleast birdvets will be introduced in India.


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## kajupakhi (Aug 2, 2004)

Hello Shoebster,
Nice to hear from you again…yes, although in my post I was talking primarily about India, but I guess, that almost every other developing, or underdeveloped countries(and other primitive societies) are same in this respect…its quite amazing to me that our people, 70% of whom are poor, not really very educated, never have they read thick books on modern concepts of ‘Liberalism’ , ‘Individualism’, ‘Human Rights(or animal rights)’, etc, etc, neither are there any animal rights activists, religious preachers, or political leaders preaching about animal rights there…and yet they seem to realize all about it very naturally , and display so much of compassion, and maturity in their actions when it comes to sharing of habitats with animals…its good to see that people here realize that man and some animals have been sharing the same habitats for so many generations, and so like it or not we have to make our share of adjustments and compromises…so get in your car and honk at cows on your way to work, clean up the attic or that corner of the street after that dog or bird has finished raising its babies, BUT DEFINITELY NO POISINING, NO TRAPPING AND KILLING!!!!( I have only realized this over the past 3 years that I have left my homeland, before that I took it all so naturally) 

But one of my greatest fear is that as our countries move towards the process of modernization and development, one of these days we too will loose our abilities to adjust ourselves with animals around us. Just imagine how horrible it would be if the whole world turns into this crazy place where mass poisoning, trapping and killing of animals is a common norm . However let’s not think about the negatives, let’s hope that when faced with these new challenges, we will be able to evolve a better system by taking in the good from both worlds and discarding the bad from both worlds.
AND YES!! I do hope that we have avian vets and enough bird meds in India soon.
Have u ever been to any animal hospital in India? The condition there is really bad…I am hoping that with the money that I am earning here, some day I can make a nice animal hospital in India with all the modern facilities( In fact I have already started saving for that) . The animal hospitals in USA are really good!!!
Btw, you could singe the petition for inhuman poisoning of pigeons. Its on the front page of this site. Also you could singe another petition against squab farming by clicking on the following link:
http://www.petitiononline.com/jun2291/petition.html
You can also tell your friends and family to do so…its nice if we can do at least something to save our feathered friends in west.

YES, people on this site are very HELPFUL, they have a lot of knowledge about our feathered friends and genuinely care about their well being…it is when u visit these sites that u realize that there are also so many people in west who really care so much and trying their best to help…its GREAT!!! I have also made some nice friends here!!!

Its an Excellent idea to post my bird’s pictures on this site…I will do that soon, however, I do not have that many birds though!! I just have 2 of them although they are very cute.

KAjupakhi


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## kajupakhi (Aug 2, 2004)

Hi Alkibirds,
I am sorry, I don't really have any answer to your question...but thanks for your post anyway...hopefully someone else in the forum will have some answers to your questions
KAjupakhi


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