# Is this correct? Almond question



## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

I found this on that website and cannot get my head around it

It says Het almond cock with almond hen would produce 75% Almond hens and 25% Non almond, If the cock is het for almond would it not be 50/50 as to whether then hen gets the almond gene or not?

Is this correct?

Heres the link for reference

http://www.slobberknockerlofts.com/colormatings.htm


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## Henk69 (Feb 25, 2010)

You are correct and it shows why these cheatsheets are of no use.
They don't explain anything and no one checks if they are correct, except you maybe... 

http://kippenjungle.nl/php/imageplustxt.php?txt=Het+almond+cock+*+non+almond+hen&mgt=St^al%2Fst%2B&fgt=st%2B%2F-&flip=N

punnett square


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## 19pigeonracer88 (Nov 13, 2011)

i was told by a breeder round the corner from me that if you get a **** pominant opal to live till breeding maturity you can put him over a het dom opal hen and the younge birds will survie, also if you use a het dom opal cock ona resseive opal hen you will get 100% dom opals and none standards i can not get my head around this can some one set me right ? thanks


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

They made a simple mistake. They accidentally put the overall percent in the place of each sex percentage. I use slobberknocker a lot for reference. This is the only mistake I've noticed. I always overlooked it before I guess.

A heterozygous cockbird with a hemizygous hen will give you 50% homozygous almond sons and 50% het almond sons, but 50% almond hens, 50% non-almond hens. Looking at the offspring as a whole, that's 75% almond offspring, 25% non-almond offspring.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

19pigeonracer88 said:


> i was told by a breeder round the corner from me that if you get a **** pominant opal to live till breeding maturity you can put him over a het dom opal hen and the younge birds will survie, also if you use a het dom opal cock ona resseive opal hen you will get 100% dom opals and none standards i can not get my head around this can some one set me right ? thanks


I don't think it's that easy to breed out the lethal gene. They are almost always inherited together. The hen could be carrying it too (it just wouldn't effect her because she's het and it needs to be in homozygous state to do harm) so it'd probably take you a while to find a hen that doesn't. Or a cockbird that doesn't, for that matter. It's worth a try though. I personally do not want to waste that much time and money.


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## 19pigeonracer88 (Nov 13, 2011)

hes been breeding it in rollers for years but i dnt fancy transfering it to the racer n doing it my self, btu i may have found a women in germany who has been doing it for the last 4 years and has 3 **** dom opals atm but only one is over a year old she also only races rare coloured homes so i migth get birds from her asshes closer and theres no quarentine from germany to england i might order a kit of 10 off her


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## indigobob (Nov 12, 2008)

NZ Pigeon said:


> I found this on that website and cannot get my head around it
> 
> It says Het almond cock with almond hen would produce 75% Almond hens and 25% Non almond, If the cock is het for almond would it not be 50/50 as to whether then hen gets the almond gene or not?
> 
> ...


The sections for faded and qualmond are also incorrect as there is no reference made to whether the faded and qualmond cocks are homozygous or heterozygous. 
The mating for faded cock and non-faded hen suggests the cock to be heterozygous, whereas the mating of faded cock to faded hen suggests the cock to be homozygous. 

The outcome from the first example of faded cock to non-faded hen is correct assuming the cock is heterozygous for faded, if the cock is homozygous for faded all the offspring will be faded.
The third example of faded cock to faded hen is correct assuming the faded cock is homozygous, if the cock is heterozygous then 50% of the daughters will be non-faded, 50% faded; 50% of the sons will be heterozygous faded and 50% will be homozygous faded.


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## 19pigeonracer88 (Nov 13, 2011)

can you breed qualmond to qualmond or isit the same as dom opal and lethal genes?


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

indigobob said:


> The sections for faded and qualmond are also incorrect as there is no reference made whether the faded and qualmond cocks are homozygous or heterozygous.
> The mating for faded/qualmond cock and non-faded/qualmond hen suggests the cock to be heterozygous, whereas the mating of faded/qualmond cock to faded/qualmond hen suggests the cock to be homozygous.


Didn't notice that either. I guess you can tell I never look at it for almond family stuff, LOL. Mostly just to check for the stars to make sure something is or isn't sex-linked.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

19pigeonracer88 said:


> can you breed qualmond to qualmond or isit the same as dom opal and lethal genes?


Almond, qualmond, hickory, sandy, frosty, chalky, and faded are all alleles but I think almond is the only one that is linked with eye problems and death in the nest. Not sure though.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

19pigeonracer88 said:


> hes been breeding it in rollers for years but i dnt fancy transfering it to the racer n doing it my self, btu i may have found a women in germany who has been doing it for the last 4 years and has 3 **** dom opals atm but only one is over a year old she also only races rare coloured homes so i migth get birds from her asshes closer and theres no quarentine from germany to england i might order a kit of 10 off her


You're lucky!


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## 19pigeonracer88 (Nov 13, 2011)

i couldnt believe it when i stumbled on the site shes just acrross the english chanel that will save me atleast £1000


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## indigobob (Nov 12, 2008)

MaryOfExeter said:


> Almond, qualmond, hickory, sandy, frosty, chalky, and faded are all alleles but I think almond is the only one that is linked with eye problems and death in the nest. Not sure though.


Only homozygous almond cocks are afflicted with eye defects.


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## 19pigeonracer88 (Nov 13, 2011)

so all these colours can be bred to each other good to know


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

indigobob said:


> Only homozygous almond cocks are afflicted with eye defects.


I know, and have never thought about it until tonight and don't understand why? Is the "bad" gene sex-linked and only bothers them in a homozygous state rather than hemizygous?


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

MaryOfExeter said:


> Didn't notice that either. I guess you can tell I never look at it for almond family stuff, LOL. Mostly just to check for the stars to make sure something is or isn't sex-linked.


But thats simple Becky, If the hen carries a dominant sex linked gene over the cock then its sex linked. Ie Almond is dominant so a hen with almond and a non almond cock is sex linked. Also if a hen is non dilute and a cock is dilute also sex linked as non dilute is dominant over dilute. I would not think you would need to refer to a website to figure this out.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

indigobob said:


> Only homozygous almond cocks are afflicted with eye defects.


Thats how I understood it too


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

MaryOfExeter said:


> They made a simple mistake. They accidentally put the overall percent in the place of each sex percentage. I use slobberknocker a lot for reference. This is the only mistake I've noticed. I always overlooked it before I guess.
> 
> A heterozygous cockbird with a hemizygous hen will give you 50% homozygous almond sons and 50% het almond sons, but 50% almond hens, 50% non-almond hens. Looking at the offspring as a whole, that's 75% almond offspring, 25% non-almond offspring.


Simple mistake yes, Just wanted to check in as I thought maybe I was missing something. As I have said before my Math is not great. IMO if you are publishing info for others reference it pays to proof read and then proof read again to make sure you are not going to put people wrong.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

MaryOfExeter said:


> They made a simple mistake. They accidentally put the overall percent in the place of each sex percentage. I use slobberknocker a lot for reference. This is the only mistake I've noticed. I always overlooked it before I guess.
> 
> A heterozygous cockbird with a hemizygous hen will give you 50% homozygous almond sons and 50% het almond sons, but 50% almond hens, 50% non-almond hens. Looking at the offspring as a whole, that's 75% almond offspring, 25% non-almond offspring.


Bearing in mind the 25% **** are likely to die meaning so I guess out of the birds that live 66.6% almond and 33.3% non almond. Correct me if im wrong here could be way off????


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## indigobob (Nov 12, 2008)

MaryOfExeter said:


> I know, and have never thought about it until tonight and don't understand why? Is the "bad" gene sex-linked and only bothers them in a homozygous state rather than hemizygous?


I wouldn't say the "bad" gene is sex-linked, but only manifests itself in the homozygotes, it will still be present in the heterozygotes/hemizygotes. Occasionally almond homozygotes are viable, so the "linkage" can be broken, but I don't know if these birds will subsequently produce viable homozygotes or are just "one-offs". Presumably someone would have exploited the viable homozygotes if they weren't "one-offs".


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

NZ Pigeon said:


> But thats simple Becky, If the hen carries a dominant sex linked gene over the cock then its sex linked. Ie Almond is dominant so a hen with almond and a non almond cock is sex linked. Also if a hen is non dilute and a cock is dilute also sex linked as non dilute is dominant over dilute. I would not think you would need to refer to a website to figure this out.


Yes, it's extremely easy. But sometimes I forget which genes are sex-linked. Especially ones I don't have to bother with very often like pale and reduced.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

indigobob said:


> I wouldn't say the "bad" gene is sex-linked, but only manifests itself in the homozygotes, it will still be present in the heterozygotes/hemizygotes. Occasionally almond homozygotes are viable, so the "linkage" can be broken, but I don't know if these birds will subsequently produce viable homozygotes or are just "one-offs". Presumably someone would have exploited the viable homozygotes if they weren't "one-offs".


Well, it must be sex-linked if only manifested in homozygotes. Therefore, the hens could not be homozygous for it (only hemi) and thus not effected by the eye problems (although she will still carry it). That is the only explanation I can think of.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

NZ Pigeon said:


> Simple mistake yes, Just wanted to check in as I thought maybe I was missing something. As I have said before my Math is not great. IMO if you are publishing info for others reference it pays to proof read and then proof read again to make sure you are not going to put people wrong.


That is a good point.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

NZ Pigeon said:


> Bearing in mind the 25% **** are likely to die meaning so I guess out of the birds that live 66.6% almond and 33.3% non almond. Correct me if im wrong here could be way off????


You're correct, yes


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

MaryOfExeter said:


> Yes, it's extremely easy. But sometimes I forget which genes are sex-linked. Especially ones I don't have to bother with very often like pale and reduced.


Fair enough, Theres so much to remember and understand with genetics, Im still gob smacked with your vast knowledge on genetics, Age aside your level of knowledge is very high. 

I still like a good debate though so please don't take offence if I seem to be a cock


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