# Pigeon has yellow poop



## starfaLL56 (Jan 1, 2022)

This paticular pigeon has had frequent issues with his poop, so we gave him enrofloxicin recently and it helped. However, today we found that some of his poop is yellow and watery. What does this mean? What can we do to help him?


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## Doves Witness (Apr 23, 2016)

What has the bird been eating?


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## starfaLL56 (Jan 1, 2022)

The pigeon eats pigeon food that we buy for him from a local pet store. We have also been giving him probiotics for the enrofloxicin.


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## Doves Witness (Apr 23, 2016)

Is the pigeon food pellets or a seed mix? Do the probiotics happen to have an enormous amount of B vitamins?

Also, are the droppings consistently like that or just one time?

*"Are there any potential side effects?*
The most common side effects of enrofloxacin are gastrointestinal effects such as vomiting, *diarrhea*, and lack of appetite. Rarely, uncoordinated walking, seizures, depression, lethargy, allergic reactions, *urinary crystals*, nervousness have been reported. On bloodwork, *elevated liver enzymes may be observed*. In young, growing animals, abnormalities of the joint cartilage have occurred.

In cats, eye damage and blindness have been reported, usually at higher doses. Rarely, vomiting, lack of appetite, *elevated liver enzymes*, *diarrhea*, uncoordinated walking, lethargy, vocalization, and aggression can occur in cats.

_*This short-acting medication should stop working within 24 hours*_, although effects can be longer in pets with liver or kidney disease."








Enrofloxacin | VCA Animal Hospital


Enrofloxacin is an antibiotic given by mouth or in the muscle commonly used to treat bacterial infections in cats, dogs, and off label in small mammals, birds, and reptiles. Common side effects include vomiting, diarrhea, and lack of appetite. It should not be used in growing or dehydrated...




vcahospitals.com





If the droppings don't change within a day with the bird drinking clean water, maybe time to visit a veterinarian?


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## starfaLL56 (Jan 1, 2022)

Doves Witness said:


> Is the pigeon food pellets or a seed mix? Do the probiotics happen to have an enormous amount of B vitamins?
> 
> Also, are the droppings consistently like that or just one time?
> 
> ...


The pigeon food is a seed mix. The probiotic we are using is a general probiotic. This is the first time we have seen his droppings like this. It has been around a week since we started using using the probiotic on our birds.


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## Doves Witness (Apr 23, 2016)

The droppings look very wrong for a seed diet. Looks like very little fecal material, some mucus, yellow urates, and clear urine. I would suspect an intestinal infection following the use of antibiotics, but the probiotics should make that unlikely.


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## starfaLL56 (Jan 1, 2022)

Doves Witness said:


> The droppings look very wrong for a seed diet. Looks like very little fecal material, some mucus, yellow urates, and clear urine. I would suspect an intestinal infection following the use of antibiotics, but the probiotics should make that unlikely.


Thanks. Is there anything else we should do for out bird?


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## Doves Witness (Apr 23, 2016)

If the bird is eating and drinking normally, and the droppings return to normal within a day, then I wouldn't worry. Synthetic antibiotics upset the balance of bacteria in the gut and strange things happen.

If they don't change within a day, find a vet that treats birds.


Afterthought: If there is any chance that the probiotics used no longer have live cultures, try a different source of probiotics.


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## starfaLL56 (Jan 1, 2022)

Doves Witness said:


> If the bird is eating and drinking normally, and the droppings return to normal within a day, then I wouldn't worry. Synthetic antibiotics upset the balance of bacteria in the gut and strange things happen.
> 
> If they don't change within a day, find a vet that treats birds.
> 
> ...


He used to poop seeds until I gave him the antibiotic, should I stop giving him the probiotic, I don't really think I am capable of getting to a vet in my area nor can I truly afford one.

I might have had a memory hole, but I am pretty sure the poor bird had watery poop since we rescued him, he had a terrible wound from a bird of prey but a good doctor stiched it closed, sadly we don't have the money to keep seeing him and really have no other alternatives in the area so far that I can think of.


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## Doves Witness (Apr 23, 2016)

Do the droppings still look the same as the photo you posted at the top of this topic? Mostly vivid yellow with clear fluid, not much green or brown?

I would do what I always do, give the bird seeds such as raw, unshelled sunflower seeds (which they love) among others, and add every natural antibiotic/antifungal/antiviral food I can lay hands on, all at once. It works with no worry over toxicity when using the seeds, leaves, or roots of the plant (essential oils may have toxicity at some quantity -- I don't use them.) I don't force-feed anything to birds who can eat on their own, I let them pick whatever they want from among their food. I do give a few drops of lemon juice in their drinking water periodically, not every day. They come in sick and tired the first day, they pep-up during the second day and their condition just keeps improving until they are healthy birds again.

More info in the topic linked below.
Natural Remedies for pigeons


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## starfaLL56 (Jan 1, 2022)

Doves Witness said:


> Do the droppings still look the same as the photo you posted at the top of this topic? Mostly vivid yellow with clear fluid, not much green or brown?
> 
> I would do what I always do, give the bird seeds such as raw, unshelled sunflower seeds (which they love) among others, and add every natural antibiotic/antifungal/antiviral food I can lay hands on, all at once. It works with no worry over toxicity when using the seeds, leaves, or roots of the plant (essential oils may have toxicity at some quantity -- I don't use them.) I don't force-feed anything to birds who can eat on their own, I let them pick whatever they want from among their food. I do give a few drops of lemon juice in their drinking water periodically, not every day. They come in sick and tired the first day, they pep-up during the second day and their condition just keeps improving until they are healthy birds again.
> 
> ...


I looked in his sleeping carrier and saw one yellow spot, so yes, I will try to do as you have said. The bird seems to get tired towards the afternoon but whenever we let him out he runs around and flutters, he clearly has a lot of energy, so much so that he always lets people know who is boss when we go near him, doing his little circling and coos.


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## Doves Witness (Apr 23, 2016)

The first picture you posted with the bright yellow droppings and tiny reflective bits in the urine suggested organ damage. Is the bird producing any "normal" looking droppings at all?

Natural antibiotic, antifungal, antiviral and antioxidant foods added to the bird's diet may help. Here's a list: cinnamon, cumin, oregano, turmeric, parsley, basil, mustard seed, ginger, black pepper, red peppers like paprika or cayenne, garlic, coriander, cardamom, sage, thyme, marjoram, tarragon, oregano, basil, dill, and peppermint leaves if you can find any. A little bit of olive oil mixed on seeds will allow powdered spices to adhere to the seeds so that birds get some of the spice with every seed they eat.

The dried seeds I give them are raw unshelled sunflower seeds, lentils (a few different kinds from the local Indian grocery store), peas (green and yellow split peas mostly, sometimes whole Canadian peas too), mung beans, popcorn, wheat, oats, flax, barley, garbanzos, crushed chilis, coriander (with hulls, and which the ferals outside do eat and the birds inside don't because they aren't starving  ), black and white peppercorns, sesame seeds with hulls (which they all eat), safflower, regular rice and once in awhile some glutinous rice, basil seeds, occasionally crushed cloves, fennel (which I have yet to see any of the indoor birds actually eat, but the outdoor birds do), and whatever other seeds I happen to find at my local grocery stores that aren't listed on the web as toxic to birds. Sometimes I run out of one thing or another for awhile, so the actual mix is always changing.

I also use an avian (bird) probiotic, and I recently started adding "nutritional yeast" (which is inactive / dead yeast) to their food (they don't hate it is about all I can say about it right now.) I also periodically add a small amount of Apple Cider Vinegar with "the mother of vinegar" in drinking water for birds who are here due to illness rather than broken legs, etc. Once a week either crumbled hard-boiled chicken egg, or some bits of fish (sardines packed in water, usually) to ensure sufficient Vitamin D is available.

I add a little fresh chopped garlic, cilantro leaves, and ginger root every day with their food. Sometimes the birds eat some, sometimes they don't. I figure they know better than I do how they feel, and what effects the different foods available have on them. That strategy is working quite well here -- but again, I only deal with feral pigeons who have been taking care of themselves outside their whole lives, not pet birds.


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## starfaLL56 (Jan 1, 2022)

Doves Witness said:


> The first picture you posted with the bright yellow droppings and tiny reflective bits in the urine suggested organ damage. Is the bird producing any "normal" looking droppings at all?
> 
> Natural antibiotic, antifungal, antiviral and antioxidant foods added to the bird's diet may help. Here's a list: cinnamon, cumin, oregano, turmeric, parsley, basil, mustard seed, ginger, black pepper, red peppers like paprika or cayenne, garlic, coriander, cardamom, sage, thyme, marjoram, tarragon, oregano, basil, dill, and peppermint leaves if you can find any. A little bit of olive oil mixed on seeds will allow powdered spices to adhere to the seeds so that birds get some of the spice with every seed they eat.
> 
> ...


Well when we first got him he had a massive wound near his backside, it was stiched by a doctor, but he has always had watery poop, when we gave him a probiotic it did get better and the color changed to what we would think is a healthier color. I will try and add some olive oil and spices to his feed and see if it helps.


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## Doves Witness (Apr 23, 2016)

When you say that he always had watery droppings, do you mean every time, or just some droppings for instance shortly after drinking a lot of water?


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## starfaLL56 (Jan 1, 2022)

Doves Witness said:


> When you say that he always had watery droppings, do you mean every time, or just some droppings for instance shortly after drinking a lot of water?


I am pretty sure he has always had some watery droppings, I don't know if it is entirely consistent but that is sadly the case. pretty sure he has had some more normal droppings as well, espicially during the antibiotic use.

The fact that he continues to have a relative amount of energy to coo at us and run around when hes let out to play and the fact that he keeps eating makes me doubt he has some sort of blockage, but I am worried he might have an infection.


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## Doves Witness (Apr 23, 2016)

If the probiotic that you use lists which strains of bacteria it provides, post those?

This is the list from the avian probiotics I use.

*Equa Holistics Avian Probiotics:*
Lactobacillus acidophilus
Lactobacillus plantarum
Bifidobacterium bifidum
Bifidobacterium animalis
Propionibacterium freudenreichii
Propionibacterium shermanii
Pediococcus acidilactici
Pediococcus pentosaceus


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## starfaLL56 (Jan 1, 2022)

The probiotic is from a brand called probios(https://www.amazon.com/Probios-Dispersible-Digestive-Powder-240gm/dp/B001BM1QRC/)
It says on the back that it contains:

Enterococcus faecium
Lactobacillus acidophilus
Lactobacillus casei
Lactobacillus plantarum


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## Doves Witness (Apr 23, 2016)

I don't see any problem with what *is* in that product, although it is missing some that are generally present in avian probiotics. I suppose that the big question is whether or not the cultures are viable. You could warm a 1/2 cup of milk to room temperature (ideally 70 degrees Farenheit or more) then add a teaspoon of the probiotic powder. Cover the cup and leave in a warm dark (no sunlight) place. By tomorrow morning the milk should be yogurt consistency if the probiotic is still good.


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## starfaLL56 (Jan 1, 2022)

Doves Witness said:


> I don't see any problem with what *is* in that product, although it is missing some that are generally present in avian probiotics. I suppose that the big question is whether or not the cultures are viable. You could warm a 1/2 cup of milk to room temperature (ideally 70 degrees Farenheit or more) then add a teaspoon of the probiotic powder. Cover the cup and leave in a warm dark (no sunlight) place. By tomorrow morning the milk should be yogurt consistency if the probiotic is still good.


Okay I will try this, is there any place to get avian probiotics that doesn't cost 40+ dollars?


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## Doves Witness (Apr 23, 2016)

Amazon.com : HealthyGut Avian Probiotics Dietary Supplement for Parrots, All-Natural Digestive System Formula (120 Servings) : Pet Supplies


Amazon.com : HealthyGut Avian Probiotics Dietary Supplement for Parrots, All-Natural Digestive System Formula (120 Servings) : Pet Supplies



www.amazon.com


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## starfaLL56 (Jan 1, 2022)

The probiotic sunk to the bottom, but I made a mistake and made it cold, should I try the test again, I decided to stop giving them the probiotic, I was worried they were not drinking it and disliked it, and as a result were getting dehydrated.


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## starfaLL56 (Jan 1, 2022)

starfaLL56 said:


> Well when we first got him he had a massive wound near his backside, it was stiched by a doctor, but he has always had watery poop, when we gave him a probiotic it did get better and the color changed to what we would think is a healthier color. I will try and add some olive oil and spices to his feed and see if it helps.


I haven't done this yet but should I put a little olive oil and spices in his feed and see how it helps?


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## Doves Witness (Apr 23, 2016)

The milk test *should* still work with cold milk if there are plenty of live bacteria in the probiotic. The bacteria might be slower at replicating at first though but they should still get going eventually as the milk warms.

I do olive oil and spices like turmeric and cayenne on seeds once a week if the birds don't appear sick. More frequently if they do appear sick. Neither the olive oil nor the spices are toxic in the amounts that stick to seeds.


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## starfaLL56 (Jan 1, 2022)

Doves Witness said:


> The milk test *should* still work with cold milk if there are plenty of live bacteria in the probiotic. The bacteria might be slower at replicating at first though but they should still get going eventually as the milk warms.
> 
> I do olive oil and spices like turmeric and cayenne on seeds once a week if the birds don't appear sick. More frequently if they do appear sick. Neither the olive oil nor the spices are toxic in the amounts that stick to seeds.


So if it just went to the bottom are the bacteria dead? So olive oil and cayenne pepper powder? I also have paprika.


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## Doves Witness (Apr 23, 2016)

If the probiotic is liquid or powder, any live cultures will disperse into the milk. If it is a pill or a capsule, it would be best to break it up.

Paprika supplies lots of vitamin A. I haven't looked for any research on other properties of Paprika yet, but I will. Cayenne also supplies vitamin A, and has been shown to effectively fight staphylococcus aureus as well as other gram-negative bacteria that are potentially harmful, and yeast, and mold. Birds can't taste the spiciness of cayenne because they do not have capsaicin receptors, so to the birds cayenne and paprika probably taste very similar and aren't spicy.

EDIT: Apparently the primary difference between cayenne and paprika is that cayenne is always cayenne, whereas paprika could include different types of peppers, including cayenne. Also, the nutrient in peppers that is antioxidant, antibacterial etc. is the capsaicin which makes them spicy. The more spicy, the more effect they have in fighting harmful bacteria. Paprika spice is made in several varieties -- only the spicy version is likely to have benefits similar to cayenne.

EDIT 2: Apparently some ground pepper sold as "cayenne" does include other varieties of peppers, and may or may not include cayenne *at all*.


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## starfaLL56 (Jan 1, 2022)

Doves Witness said:


> If the probiotic is liquid or powder, any live cultures will disperse into the milk. If it is a pill or a capsule, it would be best to break it up.
> 
> Paprika supplies lots of vitamin A. I haven't looked for any research on other properties of Paprika yet, but I will. Cayenne also supplies vitamin A, and has been shown to effectively fight staphylococcus aureus as well as other gram-negative bacteria that are potentially harmful, and yeast, and mold. Birds can't taste the spiciness of cayenne because they do not have capsaicin receptors, so to the birds cayenne and paprika probably taste very similar and aren't spicy.
> 
> EDIT: Apparently the primary difference between cayenne and paprika is that cayenne is always cayenne, whereas paprika could include different types of peppers, including cayenne. Also, the nutrient in peppers that is antioxidant, antibacterial etc. is the capsaicin which makes them spicy. The more spicy, the more effect they have in fighting harmful bacteria. Paprika spice is made in several varieties -- only the spicy version is likely to have benefits similar to cayenne.


Ahh so smoked paprika is better? I already fed my bird today but may try to give him a bit of olive oil with spices, if not I will try it tomorrow, I might be getting spooked but his poop looks a little better today.


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## Doves Witness (Apr 23, 2016)

I finally found the hottest / spiciest type of Hungarian peppers used for paprika. They are *up to* 50% as spicy as cayenne pepper, so presumably 50% or less capsaicin as cayenne. Paprika won't hurt, and will likely still help both as a source of vitamin A, and also as a natural anti-bacterial, anti-fungal and so on, but cayenne would definitely be more powerful than any flavor of paprika by itself.


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## starfaLL56 (Jan 1, 2022)

I gave my bird some oil and paprika/cayenne, also his poop seems to be doing better as of late, wonder if the probiotics had the opposite affect or if they were just starting to take affect.


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## Doves Witness (Apr 23, 2016)

That's wonderful! The helpful / friendly probiotic bacteria take time to reproduce within the bird's intestines, during which they compete for food with whatever other bacteria are already present. It does take time. Giving probiotics along with nutrients that weaken harmful bacteria and also provide food for the beneficial bacteria helps the friendly strains to grow in numbers.


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## starfaLL56 (Jan 1, 2022)

He now refuses to eat the oil and peppers in his food, he only eats normal food, I have a poultry probiotic, should I give that to him before I can order the recommended one in this thread, I stopped giving the general one due to fear the pigeons didn't like it and were avoiding drinking their water.


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## Doves Witness (Apr 23, 2016)

I don't use oil and spices on seeds every day. Once a week for birds who appear healthy, more often for birds who appear ill. So far no bird here has avoided eating the seeds using that criteria.

For the probiotics, it depends on which strains of bacteria are included. I looked at a couple of poultry probiotics just now, and both included Enterococcus Faecium. I looked that up too, and found the below passage indicating that their presence is rare in pigeons. It may or may not be harmful to columbidae (pigeons and doves.) Unknown territory, use caution. Of 50 pigeons in the study, only two carried E. Faecium bacteria.

*Composition of enterococcal and streptococcal flora from pigeon intestines, 2001*
"However, it can be concluded that intestinal species commonly associated with humans, such as E. faecium and E. faecalis, are rare in pigeons. It is very possible that these are not true inhabitants of the pigeon gut."


http://sfamjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1046/j.1365-2672.2002.01537.x


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## starfaLL56 (Jan 1, 2022)

Doves Witness said:


> I don't use oil and spices on seeds every day. Once a week for birds who appear healthy, more often for birds who appear ill. So far no bird here has avoided eating the seeds using that criteria.
> 
> For the probiotics, it depends on which strains of bacteria are included. I looked at a couple of poultry probiotics just now, and both included Enterococcus Faecium. I looked that up too, and found the below passage indicating that their presence is rare in pigeons. It may or may not be harmful to columbidae (pigeons and doves.) Unknown territory, use caution. Of 50 pigeons in the study, only two carried E. Faecium bacteria.
> 
> ...


anything else I can do for a natural probiotic? Should I continue using the one I had before, I have a pigeon powder supplement with good minerals and vitamins and I have apple cider vinegar, I am at the end of my rope and at this point I can't even afford to get that probiotic right now.


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## Doves Witness (Apr 23, 2016)

How is the bird? Is his condition worsening, stable / unchanging, or improving? What are his current symptoms?


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## starfaLL56 (Jan 1, 2022)

Doves Witness said:


> How is the bird? Is his condition worsening, stable / unchanging, or improving? What are his current symptoms?


 I thought he was eating less but apparently he started eating more recently, he seems to be the same as usual so far.


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## Doves Witness (Apr 23, 2016)

If he is eating, drinking, and seems well then perhaps just keep giving normal food and water for a few days. Is he perky / active ? Droppings looking normal?


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## starfaLL56 (Jan 1, 2022)

Doves Witness said:


> If he is eating, drinking, and seems well then perhaps just keep giving normal food and water for a few days. Is he perky / active ? Droppings looking normal?


I wouldn't say they are normal, still watery but I haven't seen yellow or seeds in his poop, well I haven't seen seeds in his poop since he took the antibiotic. Whenever we let him out he runs around everywhere and coos at mirrors, flutters about when we try to catch him, he seems to have enough energy to do that still.


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## Doves Witness (Apr 23, 2016)

Are wet droppings the only symptom remaining?

Droppings are normally composed of three parts. Fecal matter which should have a notable form, white-ish solid urates, and clear fluid urine. Some clear urine with droppings is normal.

How much fluid is in your bird's droppings? Could you post a picture of one of the bird's current droppings that is too wet?

Are the bird's droppings always too wet, or only occasionally?


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## starfaLL56 (Jan 1, 2022)

Majority of his poop is wet sadly here are some pictures.


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## Doves Witness (Apr 23, 2016)

In the first picture, the droppings look very wet due to excess fluid urine, and there is an unusually large amount of urate, the white solid part of urine, except on the left side of the image. The fecal part of the droppings appears to have form rather than being loose / formless. So the symptoms appear to be the two parts of urine: fluid and solid.

A consistently high percentage of fluid urine in droppings, along with too many urates (the solid white part of urine), can indicate kidney problems. That can be caused by diet, not enough vitamin A for example, or by infectious disease (bacterial or yeast.)

There is a good write-up about it at this link: Dropping Interpretation

I would change the bird's diet both to ensure sufficient vitamin A, and to include small amounts of every non-toxic (to birds) natural antibiotic and antifungal that is available locally. Using medicinal *foods* that won't hurt the bird provides nutrition, and weakens or kills harmful bacteria and fungus which will help the bird's immune system to overcome infections.

Garlic, ginger, cinnamon, turmeric, oregano, thyme, cilantro leaves, and black peppercorns are all examples of such foods. It doesn't take much of any one, and they all work together against infections.

I would also alternate a very small amount of lemon juice in the drinking water, raw Apple Cider Vinegar in the drinking water, and plain water, one per day.









Natural Remedies for pigeons


Hii guys. I've recently rescued 2 pigeons and added them with my old 2 fantails. Now I have 4 pigeons in total. I was wondering what can be the natural remedy to improve their immunity? I've heard neem leaves being used, but I'm not sure how I can use them. And ACV. I was wondering what do you...




www.pigeons.biz


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## starfaLL56 (Jan 1, 2022)

Doves Witness said:


> In the first picture, the droppings look very wet due to excess fluid urine, and there is an unusually large amount of urate, the white solid part of urine, except on the left side of the image. The fecal part of the droppings appears to have form rather than being loose / formless. So the symptoms appear to be the two parts of urine: fluid and solid.
> 
> A consistently high percentage of fluid urine in droppings, along with too many urates (the solid white part of urine), can indicate kidney problems. That can be caused by diet, not enough vitamin A for example, or by infectious disease (bacterial or yeast.)
> 
> ...











Amazon.com : HealthyGut™ Avian Probiotics Dietary Supplement for Parrots, All-Natural Digestive System Formula (120 Servings) : Pet Supplies


Amazon.com : HealthyGut™ Avian Probiotics Dietary Supplement for Parrots, All-Natural Digestive System Formula (120 Servings) : Pet Supplies



www.amazon.com












Amazon.com: Morning Bird Pigeon Grit, Healthy Bird Seed with High Mineral Content : Pet Supplies


Amazon.com: Morning Bird Pigeon Grit, Healthy Bird Seed with High Mineral Content : Pet Supplies



www.amazon.com





Would something like this also help my birds? Should I get it?


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## Doves Witness (Apr 23, 2016)

Probiotics should help. The grit may help, but at the page I linked in the prior post about interpreting droppings, they specifically mention that *too much vitamin D and calcium* can be a *cause* of *excess fluid* in the droppings. Grit is usually a major source of calcium.

If you are feeding the bird calcium and D supplements, stop for awhile and watch for changes in the droppings?

A tiny bit of yogurt with "live cultures" would supply some friendly / probiotic bacteria. A few tiny bits of aged, unpasteurized, hard Cheddar cheese would too. Go easy on the cheese as it contains salt, too much of which can lead to excess fluid urine in droppings! (Isn't it amazing how complicated this becomes?!  )


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## starfaLL56 (Jan 1, 2022)

Doves Witness said:


> Probiotics should help. The grit may help, but at the page I linked in the prior post about interpreting droppings, they specifically mention that *too much vitamin D and calcium* can be a *cause* of *excess fluid* in the droppings. Grit is usually a major source of calcium.
> 
> If you are feeding the bird calcium and D supplements, stop for awhile and watch for changes in the droppings?
> 
> A tiny bit of yogurt with "live cultures" would supply some friendly / probiotic bacteria. A few tiny bits of aged Cheddar cheese made with unpasteurized milk would too. Go easy on the cheese as it contains salt, too much of which can lead to excess fluid urine in droppings! (Isn't it amazing how complicated this gets?!  )


just a tiny bit of yogurt in the feed? Would greek yogart suffice, also I will give each of my birds some of the supplement I have for pigeons tomorrow with some acv in their water.


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## starfaLL56 (Jan 1, 2022)

Is there any specifc way to tell if my bird seeds are going bad, the smell? I wonder if that is affecting my bird at all.


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## Doves Witness (Apr 23, 2016)

Generally speaking, seeds should smell like grain. Pigeons / doves don't like fungus and mold and even the starving feral pigeons in this city will not touch moldy bread.

Greek yogurt with "live cultures" often has less lactose than regular yogurt. Pigeons and doves don't digest lactose well, so use a tiny amount of regular yogurt with "live cultures", or slightly more of a lower-lactose Greek yogurt would also be ok.

Provided that the water isn't chlorinated, then yogurt and / or probiotics given in the water should still be effective.

You could also use fresh bread as a medium for the yogurt. Tear off a piece of fresh bread about 1" x 1". Press or roll it flat (it's easier to cut and doesn't fall apart that way.) Smear yogurt on one side. Fold it over, then cut it to 1/4" x 1/4" pieces. Give the pieces to the bird to eat. That also works for spices, herbs, etc. and is sometimes easier (and less messy) than mixing with seeds and oil.


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## starfaLL56 (Jan 1, 2022)

We ordered some probiotics as well but I am going to try what you suggest tomorrow.


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## starfaLL56 (Jan 1, 2022)

I fed two of my pigeons grit and they ended up pooping their seeds they had eaten earlier instead of digesting them, I bought specific pigeon grit, it was supposed to be good quality, have I ****ed up my birds gizzards by feeding them to much? What do I do? I must have given them to much grit but I didn't realize it would be so easy to potentially hurt my gluttonous avians this way when I was trying to help them digest their feed and not prevent them.

Edit: was told on another thread that sudden dietary changes can cause this temporally, I think it will hopefully not affect them both, sadly the other pigeon who has been the subject of this thread has not changed his poop to anything better after eating grit.


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## Doves Witness (Apr 23, 2016)

starfaLL56 said:


> the other pigeon who has been the subject of this thread has not changed his poop to anything better after eating grit


Do you mean that the bird's droppings are still yellow, or still overly wet?


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## starfaLL56 (Jan 1, 2022)

Doves Witness said:


> Do you mean that the bird's droppings are still yellow, or still overly wet?


His poop became much better after your solution of small bit of bread and yogurt, thank you so much, also one extra question, pigeons aren't capable of getting diseases like mareks right? I am a paranoid person and my chickens might have it due to me having adopted some sickly ones.


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## Doves Witness (Apr 23, 2016)

Marek's specifically, no. _Symptoms_ similar to Marek's but from other causes like Salmonella, yes. If your chickens are ill, add to their diet foods which are naturally anti-viral, anti-bacterial, etc., *there are a lot of such foods: licorice plant, aloe vera, yarrow, thyme, elderberry, neem, cumim, chicory, citrus fruit, turmeric, ginger, garlic, oregano, basil, raw honey, coconut oil, yogurt, and so on.*









Natural Remedies for pigeons


Hii guys. I've recently rescued 2 pigeons and added them with my old 2 fantails. Now I have 4 pigeons in total. I was wondering what can be the natural remedy to improve their immunity? I've heard neem leaves being used, but I'm not sure how I can use them. And ACV. I was wondering what do you...




www.pigeons.biz


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## starfaLL56 (Jan 1, 2022)

Doves Witness said:


> Marek's specifically, no. _Symptoms_ similar to Marek's but from other causes like Salmonella, yes. If your chickens are ill, add to their diet foods which are naturally anti-viral, anti-bacterial, etc., *there are a lot of such foods: licorice plant, aloe vera, yarrow, thyme, elderberry, neem, cumim, chicory, citrus fruit, turmeric, ginger, garlic, oregano, basil, raw honey, coconut oil, yogurt, and so on.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you Dove Witness, you are a life saver as usual, I know its offtopic do you know anything in feather loss in chickens, I have done my best to keep them lice and mite free with permathin and Diatomaceous Earth to keep them from having them and yet my hens still seem to lose some and have trouble growing them back, one of my hens has permanent bald spots on her lower body and left wing, another ha lossed some on her bottom and crop, another just her crop.

One more offtopic question, I have one game bird I am keeping and she has had trouble due to my small living space for her, I cannot just make her a new living space due to circumstances, I try to keep her living space clean but she well she poops a lot. I tried using grates as a solution with some solid chicken wire but one of her foot got a little well raw looking, and fearing bumble foot I removed them, now her feet are even worse as a result of poop on them, I have put bandages on them and disenfected the raw feet to make sure she doesn't get infected, I also have an antibiotic for her just in case but I am worried as what I should do. I have plastic wiremesh and chicken wire, should I make a grated floor out of that instead while I gather wood for a living space. Should I just buy another larger dog crate for her?

btw I use a small dremel to trim my birds nails, how far should one trim when having black or grey nails, my gamebirds nails once got so long that she sadly lost one, she recovered and I gave her an antibiotic to make sure she didn't get infect but I never want such a tradgedy to befall my birds again.


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## Doves Witness (Apr 23, 2016)

Assuming that they have no external parasites due to the permethrin, it's likely to be dietary deficiency of either calcium (and therefore possibly vitamin D as well), or of protein. Yeast infection can also cause poor feather growth, as can virus infections, and poisoning. I'd bet that it's nutritional / dietary deficiency though.


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## starfaLL56 (Jan 1, 2022)

Doves Witness said:


> Assuming that they have no external parasites due to the permethrin, it's likely to be dietary deficiency of either calcium (and therefore possibly vitamin D as well), or of protein. Yeast infection can also cause poor feather growth, as can virus infections, and poisoning. I'd bet that it's nutritional / dietary deficiency though.


That is what I thought, thank you. Hope you are able to answer my long question on the game bird later as well.


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## Doves Witness (Apr 23, 2016)

I have never found a feral pigeon with long nails, so I don't have any experience at trimming them. Be sure to have something ready to stop any bleeding. Corn starch, flour, tobacco ash, etc. Another member here: beachwood45789 recommended this article in a prior post: Beak And Nail Care In Birds | VCA Animal Hospitals

As for the game bird with foot problems, how about using newspaper or brown paper bags over the grating (or instead of) at least until her feet are healed? Meanwhile, add more naturally anti-biotic foods to her diet and vitamin A (carrots and bell peppers are good sources of A.)


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## starfaLL56 (Jan 1, 2022)

Doves Witness said:


> I have never found a feral pigeon with long nails, so I don't have any experience at trimming them. Be sure to have something ready to stop any bleeding. Corn starch, flour, tobacco ash, etc. Another member here: beachwood45789 recommended this article in a prior post: Beak And Nail Care In Birds | VCA Animal Hospitals
> 
> As for the game bird with foot problems, how about using newspaper or brown paper bags over the grating (or instead of) at least until her feet are healed? Meanwhile, add more naturally anti-biotic foods to her diet and vitamin A (carrots and bell peppers are good sources of A.)


Thank you for the tips, also should I syringe feed her some water since she hasn't been drinking anything, just nesting for the last couple of hours or wait until she decides, I also fed her some of my red pigeon grit for calcium.


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## Doves Witness (Apr 23, 2016)

If she seems well and is eating, drinking, and producing normal looking droppings daily, then I wouldn't force-feed her foods or water.


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## starfaLL56 (Jan 1, 2022)

Doves Witness said:


> If she seems well and is eating, drinking, and producing normal looking droppings daily, then I wouldn't force-feed her foods or water.


She hasn't pooped yet today but she always does big poops when she is laying.


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## starfaLL56 (Jan 1, 2022)

As an update she is doing a lot better now.

One offtopic question, a bird I own's end of toes are bending inward now even while she walks, I gave her an epson salt bath and I shaved her nails since they were a bit overgrown but I am afraid of causing her to bleed, but does she got some sort of disease that I need an antibiotic for?


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## Doves Witness (Apr 23, 2016)

Maybe Riboflavin / vitamin B2 deficiency?

Could also be Marek's disease, in poultry: Curly toe paralysis in Chickens

This older topic has a photo of a young pigeon with feet curled inward: Baby Pigeon Feet Curling Inwards


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## starfaLL56 (Jan 1, 2022)

Doves Witness said:


> Maybe Riboflavin / vitamin B2 deficiency?
> 
> Could also be Marek's disease, in poultry: Curly toe paralysis in Chickens
> 
> This older topic has a photo of a young pigeon with feet curled inward: Baby Pigeon Feet Curling Inwards


well it is a chukar, pretty sure they can't get mareks.


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## starfaLL56 (Jan 1, 2022)

What sort of supplament would you recommend for her? Also her poop has been watery as of late, I know she isn't a pigeon but do you think some parika/greek yogurt/bread would be a good natural probiotic for my chukar? I also reguarly mix ACV into her feed. I feed her a gamebird mix.


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## Doves Witness (Apr 23, 2016)

Yes, and coincidentally, Greek Yogurt, Paprika or any ground / crushed / powdered red peppers, and cooked eggs are all reasonably good sources of vitamin B2 which birds can eat. Dried Parsley too.



http://neatfeetwildlife.co.uk/shop/ols/products/red-legged-partridge-foot-splints


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## starfaLL56 (Jan 1, 2022)

Doves Witness said:


> Yes, and coincidentally, Greek Yogurt, Paprika or any ground / crushed / powdered red peppers, and cooked eggs are all reasonably good sources of vitamin B2 which birds can eat. Dried Parsley too.
> 
> 
> 
> http://neatfeetwildlife.co.uk/shop/ols/products/red-legged-partridge-foot-splints


Thank you so much for all the help. All her wounds from the poop don't seem to be as bad anymore, gave her an Epson salt bath in case she had early stages of bumble foot as well, still waiting a while longer before I try and add in a plastic floor grate, I need to get enough wood to construct a larger living space for the poor baby.


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## starfaLL56 (Jan 1, 2022)

The chukar does not want to eat the bread. Is there a better way to feed the probiotic to her?


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## Doves Witness (Apr 23, 2016)

Mix her seeds with the probiotic and either olive oil or yogurt, enough to get the probiotic to stick to the seeds?


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## starfaLL56 (Jan 1, 2022)

Thank you for the tip dove witness, I always appreciate your helpful posts.


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## starfaLL56 (Jan 1, 2022)

Dove witness is their any chance I could make my own splints while I wait for the splints you sent me to come in? Also do you know where to get any pigeon splints as one of my birds has simular problems. Also I bought the probiotic you reccomended to me at the beginning of this thread, would it help my birds that have the toe curling problem?


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## Doves Witness (Apr 23, 2016)

Deficiency of vitamin D and / or calcium can cause curled toes (curled inward / under, below the foot.) Deficiency of vitamin B2 / Riboflavin can cause rolled / twisted toes (bottom of toes turned to face left or right instead of down, toenail turned on side instead of bottom.) The probiotics might help in that it may improve digestion and absorption of the nutrients, but ensuring that the bird's diet provides sufficient levels of the nutrients would be the first step.

Deficiency of dietary manganese and choline, or chronic vitamin B6 / Pyridoxine deficiency can lead to a condition called perosis that includes curled (under the foot) toes.

You could make toe-splints / shoes for the pigeons. It should be fairly easy to address curled toes, but rolled toes might be trickier. For curled toes perhaps just cut a thin piece of firm plastic (milk jug?) to the general shape of the bird's foot and toes, then use medical tape to keep it in place so that the foot is flat and the toes are straight rather than curled under. That might work for rolled toes too but it would probably take two people since someone would have to keep the toe "un-rolled" while another person wraps the tape. According to one avian veterinary book, the condition usually corrects itself with age.


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## starfaLL56 (Jan 1, 2022)

Doves Witness said:


> Deficiency of vitamin D and / or calcium can cause curled toes (curled inward / under, below the foot.) Deficiency of vitamin B2 / Riboflavin can cause rolled / twisted toes (bottom of toes turned to face left or right instead of down, toenail turned on side instead of bottom.) The probiotics might help in that it may improve digestion and absorption of the nutrients, but ensuring that the bird's diet provides sufficient levels of the nutrients would be the first step.
> 
> Deficiency of dietary manganese and choline, or chronic vitamin B6 / Pyridoxine deficiency can lead to a condition called perosis that includes curled (under the foot) toes.
> 
> You could make toe-splints / shoes for the pigeons. It should be fairly easy to address curled toes, but rolled toes might be trickier. For curled toes perhaps just cut a thin piece of firm plastic (milk jug?) to the general shape of the bird's foot and toes, then use medical tape to keep it in place so that the foot is flat and the toes are straight rather than curled under. That might work for rolled toes too but it would probably take two people since someone would have to keep the toe "un-rolled" while another person wraps the tape. According to one avian veterinary book, the condition usually corrects itself with age.


Thank you for the information, dove witness.


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## starfaLL56 (Jan 1, 2022)

Hey dove witness, our chukars legs are still limping. Is there anything else we can do for her until we can get the splints?


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## Doves Witness (Apr 23, 2016)

Are the bird's feet and toes healthy, no sores or wounds? Toes not curled-up below the foot?


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## starfaLL56 (Jan 1, 2022)

Doves Witness said:


> Are the bird's feet and toes healthy, no sores or wounds? Toes not curled-up below the foot?


Allow me to explain, I made some makeshift splints and taped it to the birds feet, she has a hard time walking now as a result but I was trying to get her toes to stop curling. I also realized that three of my pigeons also seem to have this toe curling problem.

Pretty sure besides the feet being a little sore from the poop on it and the wounds that have been healing there she is fine when it comes to her feet, well besides the turl curling, which did reduce since I shaved her nails but still happens whenver she is isn't on a flat surface.

It seems my chukar dislikes the yogurt but the pigeons like it to varying degrees. Whats the best pigeon splints I could get, sadly for personal reasons I can't even order those cheap splints you sent me for the chukar which is why I made the makeshift splints out of the milk carton,


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## starfaLL56 (Jan 1, 2022)

Oh and to add to what I said, she has really bad traction due to the makeshift splints and sort of wallows around, she has managed but still worried.

Also one offtopic question, my pigeon couple rejected there clutch of eggs, one of them broke and we thought there was a living embryo in it. There is one still left but I couldn't get them to accept it, tried keeping it warm with a small lamp but nothing worked, its been sitting unheated for a while, is it doomed or is there anyway to save it it?


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## Doves Witness (Apr 23, 2016)

I don't know about the egg. Apparently an egg being a bit too cold is less damaging than even only a couple of degrees too hot, so I suppose that it might yet be viable.

Maybe glue some sand on the bottom of the flat plastic shoes for the bird? That should provide traction on any solid surface, but if the bird is on a grate then I don't think that would help since the plastic itself might not bend enough to allow any sort of even partial gripping of the narrow metal bars of the grate.

Three birds with toe curling problems sounds more like a B vitamin deficiency than a purely physical cause.

Regarding the pigeon foot / toe splints, are those birds in a cage with a grate floor as well? I hadn't considered the lack of traction with that type of floor surface. Maybe a combination of thin flat wood to keep the toes straight, then wrapped in soft foam plastic like polyethylene foam (often used as packaging material for breakable objects) which might give some traction on the metal cage floor bars.


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## starfaLL56 (Jan 1, 2022)

Doves Witness said:


> I don't know about the egg. Apparently an egg being a bit too cold is less damaging than even only a couple of degrees too hot, so I suppose that it might yet be viable.
> 
> Maybe glue some sand on the bottom of the flat plastic shoes for the bird? That should provide traction on any solid surface, but if the bird is on a grate then I don't think that would help since the plastic itself might not bend enough to allow any sort of even partial gripping of the narrow metal bars of the grate.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the info, they are on plastic/paper floor. Any tips on making a budget incubator for the egg just to make sure?


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## Doves Witness (Apr 23, 2016)

No, I've never had an egg to incubate so no experience with them at all. I live in a city where most nesting sites for pigeons include a very long drop onto concrete so I doubt that I will ever encounter a viable egg.


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## starfaLL56 (Jan 1, 2022)

I regret to inform you that the chukar has passed away, due to my own incompetence the chukar died of a heat stroke of some sort and I overlooked her stamina depleted state since I had water in her living space. Sadly the baby can't come back and I can only live on with my mistakes.


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## Doves Witness (Apr 23, 2016)

With or without you, all the creatures of this world experience death of the body. With you she also experienced kindness, an environment safe from predators, and a reliable supply of easily accessible food and water. That may well have given her more joy than she would ever have known without you. We can't change the laws of nature, but nature can change us by moving us to care for the world outside ourselves.

No act of kindness, no matter how small, is ever wasted.

If the weather is hot and the other birds are having distress, vitamin C helps in dealing with the heat, so add some lemon juice (bottled is fine) to their drinking water. Fenugreek seeds and Moringa oleifera may also help, they did in a research study with pigeon squabs dealing with heat stress.


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## starfaLL56 (Jan 1, 2022)

Doves Witness said:


> With or without you, all the creatures of this world experience death of the body. With you she also experienced kindness, an environment safe from predators, and a reliable supply of easily accessible food and water. That may well have given her more joy than she would ever have known without you. We can't change the laws of nature, but nature can change us by moving us to care for the world outside ourselves.
> 
> No act of kindness, no matter how small, is ever wasted.
> 
> If the weather is hot and the other birds are having distress, vitamin C helps in dealing with the heat, so add some lemon juice (bottled is fine) to their drinking water. Fenugreek seeds and Moringa oleifera may also help, they did in a research study with pigeon squabs dealing with heat stress.


I appreciate what you have to say but she probably would still be alive had I payed attention to her, I hope she is able to rest in peace.

Is store bought aloe vera gel okay to use on sunburns for my chickens?


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## Doves Witness (Apr 23, 2016)

Does it list the ingredients? If it is pure aloe or mixed only with glycerine, that would be fine.


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## starfaLL56 (Jan 1, 2022)

Doves Witness said:


> Does it list the ingredients? If it is pure aloe or mixed only with glycerine, that would be fine.


Its got aloe Barbadensis Leaf juice, Polysorbate 20, tocopherl Acetate (vietmin E Acetate), Carbomer, Tetrasodium EDTA, Triethanolamine, Phenoxyethnal, and Ethylhexylglycerin.


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## Doves Witness (Apr 23, 2016)

Good grief, that's a lot of added crap! I'd skip that and find something else. Got any coconut oil?

"*Cons of Phenoxyethanol*
It can be considered dangerous. The use of products that contain *phenoxyethanol is linked to reactions that may be **life-threatening*. If you do use products containing phenoxyethanol as a preservative, be aware of how much you’re using each day, especially around infants.

You may be allergic. If you’re allergic to phenoxyethanol, you may develop a rash like hives on your skin where the product was applied. In severe cases, *you may experience anaphylaxis*. One study showed that parabens may enhance the effects of phenoxyethanol, leading to a stronger reaction.

It may irritate eczema. If your skin is already sensitive because of eczema, avoid products with higher concentrations of phenoxyethanol. If you do have a reaction, discontinue use. *Most cases of a skin reaction clear up within days or weeks once you stop using the product*.

It is harmful to infants. In 2008, a nipple cream containing phenoxyethanol was recalled. Infants who nursed and ingested the nipple cream had *instances of vomiting, diarrhea, and a depressed nervous system*. Some babies lost their appetites, exhibited limpness, or showed difficulty in waking up after sleep."








What to Know About Phenoxyethanol


Find out what you need to know about phenoxyethanol and discover the pros and cons as well as potential health risks.




www.webmd.com


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## starfaLL56 (Jan 1, 2022)

I do have coconut oil, raw and refined, would that work for my hens?


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## Doves Witness (Apr 23, 2016)

It is supposed to help with sunburn, but I don't have any research to back that up (yet.) It is definitely used as a natural remedy for a variety of other skin issues (for which there is research), and it's not toxic to birds. Try it on one bird to test whether the bird hates it?


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## starfaLL56 (Jan 1, 2022)

Doves Witness said:


> It is supposed to help with sunburn, but I don't have any research to back that up (yet.) It is definitely used as a natural remedy for a variety of other skin issues (for which there is research), and it's not toxic to birds. Try it on one bird to test whether the bird hates it?


Sure I will try it, thank you.


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## starfaLL56 (Jan 1, 2022)

Is this poop looking okay?


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## Doves Witness (Apr 23, 2016)

The most important thing is whether the droppings are _*consistently*_ weird.

The two droppings in the pictures _*could*_ be ok. The larger dropping in the picture without the bucket looks like there is some form to the fecal portion, so not diarrhea. The urates are white-ish in some areas, so the discoloration in other areas may be due to color coming from the solids through fluids _*after*_ the dropping fell (color bleeding.) The photo with the bucket is a bit blurry even when I zoom in, and it looks like there is either less fecal material or less formed, but otherwise about the same as the other dropping, some portion of the urates are white-ish, so the portions that are discolored were likely stained after the dropping was made.


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## starfaLL56 (Jan 1, 2022)

Doves Witness said:


> The most important thing is whether the droppings are _*consistently*_ weird.
> 
> The two droppings in the pictures _*could*_ be ok. The larger dropping in the picture without the bucket looks like there is some form to the fecal portion, so not diarrhea. The urates are white-ish in some areas, so the discoloration in other areas may be due to color coming from the solids through fluids _*after*_ the dropping fell (color bleeding.) The photo with the bucket is a bit blurry even when I zoom in, and it looks like there is either less fecal material or less formed, but otherwise about the same as the other dropping, some portion of the urates are white-ish, so the portions that are discolored were likely stained after the dropping was made.


Luckily I don't think they are, I will be vigilant.


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