# My Pigeon isn`t well...Please Help



## EdMurray (Jan 28, 2006)

Hello everyone.
I`ve been reading a lot of posts here and found some good info, however I`d like a little more advice if possible. I`ll give a few details.

Four years ago I found a young pigeon, a squab I guess you would call it. It was abandoned and I took it home. I managed to bring it on well and since then it has sort of lived with me, in the house. It goes out in the day (well it did until a few days ago) and comes in at night. As soon as dusk rolls in I`ll see it sitting near the patio door and I let it in. He has a sort of nest, plenty of pigeon food and fresh water.

Anyway, two days ago I saw him at the patio door and opened it and expected him to come jumping in as always. However, he just sat there. I knew something was wrong as he never does this. I went out and lifted him in, another thing that he never lets me do. Although I`ve had him for four years I never did manage to tame him so that I could stroke him or lift him up. 

Well, since then I`ve had him on a warm hot water bottle and covered up. He won`t move, drink or eat.
I`ve made ringers solution and have been trying to give it him, and I`ve made a mixture of small pigeon corn pieces, frozen peas (thawed!), and a little bread and water to bind it. I`ve been trying to feed him this too but it`s very difficult. Although he won`t move unaided, he can certainly make it difficult to feed him!
Sometimes I put his normal seed bowl right up to him and he actually bends down and tries to peck the seeds but he can`t seem to get any and gives up.

I have had a good look in his mouth and throat and can`t see anything wrong eg canker, and I`ve checked him over thoroughly and can find no outward signs of injury.
I`m at a loss as to what to do. I don`t have a vet near or any "bird" friends I can ask hence I`m here to ask you good folks for advice.

What can I do? What should I be feeding him? My local pet store is useless, they don`t have any medicines or formula stuff I can make up. I`d be so grateful for any suggestions. 
I`m not even sure of how much I should be trying to feed him or water him. Could someone please let me know the quantities I should be aiming to get into him? Maybe you could approximate in teaspoon measures so I know exactly what you mean?

Please help, he`s a lovely little chap and I`d love to bring him back to health.

All the best,
Ed.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Ed and welcome to pigeontalk!


Well now, that is a tad unusual behaviour for your pigeon...considering how long and how well you would know him after 4 years.  Given the facts you've stated and how he is otherwise healthy and fine, the only thing I can think of is shock of some kind. Perhaps he ran into a window or was attacked by a cat or bird of prey and he's in post tramatic stress I know it sounds silly but pigeons and other prey animals are easily stressed out by such things. And if he ran into a window or something else hard on impact, he might have jarred himself good to the point where he's not very lucid or aware with a possible concussion.


Others will be on soon to offer more suggestions and advice, but in the meantime, can you let us know where you are and possibly post a picture of the pigeon as well as any other details, however minute.

Thank you,


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

EdMurray said:


> I`m not even sure of how much I should be trying to feed him or water him. Could someone please let me know the quantities I should be aiming to get into him? Maybe you could approximate in teaspoon measures so I know exactly what you mean?
> 
> Please help, he`s a lovely little chap and I`d love to bring him back to health.
> 
> ...


Hello Ed & Welcome,

So sorry to hear about your feathered friend. It sounds as though you have followed the proper steps to helping this little one.

Since he isn't drinking on his own, I would suggest using an eye dropper to administer the rehydrating solution, a couple drops at a time, along the beak, every few minutes. 
At this point, I wouldn't worry to much about offering him food. Hydration is first & foremost.

Please keep us posted. 

Cindy


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Hi Ed and I am glad you have been reading about caring for pigeons here. I only want to add a caution about giving liquids through the beak. It is all to easy to aspirate your bird and possibly bring about pneumonia. There are a lot of good posts on hydrating and giving liquids to birds. Hopefully others can give you the details you need if you don't see them and especially how much liquid he needs. Warmth and liquids are so important for survival though. Your little bird flew home just knowing he would have your care and protection. Hope it goes well.

Cameron


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Camrron said:


> I only want to add a caution about giving liquids through the beak. It is all to easy to aspirate your bird and possibly bring about pneumonia. .
> Cameron


Yes, indeed, caution does need to be taken when administering liquids into a bird. 

The veteran rehabber I worked with suggested a beginner rehydrate a pigeon either by using the eye dropper method or tubing them. This, of course, should only be done if the bird is not drinking on it's own. I suggest the eye dropper method because it seems easier for beginners than tubing the bird.

Cindy

Sorry for the confusion. Yes, initially,the liquids should be placed *along the beak* as fp has pointed out. I have edited my previous post.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Ed, and welcome to Pigeon Talk. Have you had or taken the opportunity to really look through the feathers and over the body to see if you can sight any abnormalities in the skin such as in puncture wounds? Also, if you could place the pij on a heating pad set at low w/a towel over it in a quiet place in the house, that would be great. Could you describe his poops for us?

In terms of hydrating him, will this bird swallow if you simply drop the liquid on top or on the side of the beak? A pinch of sugar and salt in a cup of warm water will help to rehydrate the bird. If you need to actually place inside the mouth for the bird to get the solution because it doesn't swallow from placing on the outside of the beak, then you need to make sure that it goes down the throat and not the first hole which leads to the air sacs/lungs. It is always best to see if the bird will swallow on its own by placing the drops on top or on the side of the beak. Otherwise, you will have to get the dropper past this first hole and make sure it is directly introduced to the throat opening in the back.

I wouldn't let this bird continue to go out on its' own until the problem has been identified. As Brad suggested, your general whereabouts would be helpful to know in terms of other members who can help out or known pigeon
friendly avian vets in your area.

fp


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Checking for puncture wounds is good advice. They can be well hidden by the feathers. A few years back we got one of our roller hens back from a kind family who found her. She looked okay on the surface but wasn't herself. I checked her carefully but didn't find anything, so I took her to the vet. The vet sprayed down the feathers on her back with water and bingo--there was a quarter-sized wound on her back, presumably from a hawk. If you wet the feathers with a little water you'll find it much easier to check for wounds. Since your pigeon's behavior changed dramatically in one day, I suspect an attack by a hawk or cat. Around here hawks are especially problematic in winter.


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Yes Birdmom that is how I noticed some not-so-obvious problems with my bird too. A wet bird does allow you to see through to the skin. 

If you try this though Ed please be prepared with a heating pad to keep your bird warm and dry afterwards. My bird has just started bathing. He is healthy but after a dip he still sits on top of a lamp I have to keep warm and dry out. Pigeons run at a higher body temperature than people so it is really important to provide external heat, especially if your bird is ill. The exact temp. I don't know but the experts can pass that on and it will make more sense when you hear it from them.

Cameron


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Ed,



Tell us where you are in case any of us might live close by?


Now, what are the poops looking like? Are there poops getting made?

Two days without chow is maybe no big deal for now, but whatever he is still passing will be important as an aid to possible diagnosis, and, if possible, for you to gather a tablespoon or so of the freshest and refridgerate it pending someone here maybe mentioning a decent Avian Vet in your area you could go to for getting a fecal exam done.


For now, get an electric Heating Pad, lay a towell over it ( white towlls are good to see poops by) and set him up on it...set the pad to low, or if to medium use two layers of towell...ideally, it should be set up so he can be on it, on the edge of it, or off of it as he likes...

Hydration wise, if you are going to use an eye dropper, make sure the liquid is 'tepid'...and make sure to get the end of the Eye Dropper well past the little breathing opening in the back of his Throat and do not squirt it, but dribble it in at a moderat rate.

Is he standing? Sleeping on one leg or both legs while standing?

Or, is he laying down for his resting?

Eyes open mostly, or eyes closed mostly?

Keep him safe from any drafts too...he needs all his energy to deal with whatever is wrong with him and not to be spending it on keeping himself warm....so.,..the Heatind Pad and some seclusion/protection from drafts will be important.

So, let us know roughly your location, and...

Describve well for us the poops-so-far...

Lastly, please feel his Crop and see if it feels like it is empty or if it has food at any rate, 'something' in it...or if it sorta looks full but only has air or gas in it...


Till next...

Phil
Las Vegas


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Following up on the possibility of a punture wound, the bird will also need to be put on an appropriate antibiotic such as Clavamox also known as Augmentin. Most likely you'd need to see a vet for that.

fp


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Ed, 


Yahhh, good mentions above for looking for punctures or claw wounds and so on.

I usually just blow the Feathes so they lift, but that is still hard to see well...

But do check him out thoroughly that way, his sides and back especially...these kinds of punctures sometimes hardly bleed at all and can be hard to find...

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hello and Welcome to Pigeon Talk,

I'm sorry to hear your pet is not feeling good.

You have been given some excellent advice, and I would follow it.

Also, pigeons will come down with coccidiosis, when their immune system is compromised as it usually dorment in their gut. What does the poop look like? It is a possibility, but just a guess.

Taking the bird to a vet for exam and fecal would get you an accurate diagnosis.

Along with warmth and hydration, once he is eating, I would suggest some human grade probiotics, Apple cider vinegar in the water, and garlic caps.


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

For hydrating, what I found worked well for me was to use a milkshake straw and insert it into a glass with about an inch of Pedylite or other re-hydrating fluid mix. I then block off the top with my finger. Their beak will fit nicely into the the unblocked end and the birds I've done this with open their beak a crack and slowly drink.


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## EdMurray (Jan 28, 2006)

Hello again and may I begin by thanking you all very much for your wonderful replies. I appreciate them no end. As I already said, I don`t have any "bird" friends as such and have no access to a vet on my own. If by Monday things have not improved I shall be in touch with my sister for a lift to one (I don`t drive unfortunately).

Anyway, let me bring you all up to date, and then I want to tell you a little bit more about my special little chap and our history, and then I`ll answer the questions that I have been asked.

Well, I feel a little more hopeful today. I got up this morning, gave him his ringers solution and some of the mix I made up, gave him a fresh hot water bottle and covered him up. Then I let his girlfriend out (I`ll explain later), and when she had flown off, I actually heard him cooing! I hadn`t heard a peep out of him for three days now! I so hope it was a good sign!
I had to go out for a couple of hours then and when I got back in he was all out of his covers and I noticed that his seed bowl was almost empty, not that he had eaten it all, but it was all scattered around, good style. He is notorious for this when he is in good health so again I hope I can take it as a good sign. I`m just not sure if he ate any corn or not though.
Nevertheless, I redid his water bottle, gave him more ringers solution and mix and covered him up again and that is how he remains at this moment of writing. 

Now a little history.
I brought Shalken on (yes, that`s his name) from being an abandoned squab. he was such a little fighter even though he was terribly weak and all boney. I fed him by hand and his little defiant eyes and body so tried to get away. He didn`t know I was trying to help him and wanted to defend himself, he had a real zest for life!
Anyway, he thrived and before long was strong and flying around. I let him go with a sad heart but he came back that very night! Of course, he was more than welcome and I let him straight in to his old nest! He took full advantage of my hospitality but as I said earlier, I could never get near him, he would squawk and coo if I even looked at him the wrong way! LOL
Well, all was sweet for a year until he broke his wing. Some kids had thrown a brick at him in the little square I lived around, they were always trying to torment the pigeons that congregated there.
I lived in another town then and took him to the vets. They advised putting him down as the wing couldn`t be mended. I asked for any possible options and they said the only thing they could do was to amputate his wing but he probably wouldn`t recover and if he did he would need special arrangements etc Well, I looked at his little bright eyes and knew I had to give him a chance so I let them amputate.
He was very poorly at first but pulled through. He looked such a sad little thing but then he rallied and began eating and drinking like a little trooper. This was just at the time that I moved to my present address and I fixed up the garden all secure, made him a new nest inside and things went so well. He would come in at night, be outside in the garden all day, pottering around and pecking, and all the other pigeons would fly in and they would have their little rituals and things they do. He was not a solitary bird. 
He went from strength to strength and he even got himself a girlfriend who sort of just moved in with him! They are inseparable and are so affectionate to each other! They have had quite a few babies and apart from two that didn`t make it, they have all grown up well and flew off to wherever!
I always wondered if I did the right thing with the wing operation etc but seeing what a full and fullfilled life the little devil has lived since with his lady, I know it was the right thing to do.
Well, that`s his story and mine.

Ok, on to other matters.
I`m in the UK, Northamptonshire.
Even though he has a girlfriend I have kept them separated these past few days. She still comes in at night but I don`t let them have physical contact. They are between eggs at the moment so no problem there.

Poop wise, it has been rather green, some solid, some watery. Before he always had the classic oil paint from a tube poop.

I did another thorough check for injuries. Nothing that I can find.

Checked his mouth and throat again, all seems in good condition.

He stands on two legs, and sleeps that way too.

Eyes open mostly.

I`m using a syringe to deliver his water and ringers solution in small amounts. He does seem to be taking it in if I drop it on his beak. I also deliver a few drops directly into his mouth, only a few drops though as I know it is dangerous to squirt it it.

His crop feels like there is something in it, I do make sure he takes some solids in.

As Trees Gray suggests, (thanks for the advice), I will get some apple cider vinegar for some water (what quantities?) and some garlic capsules (again, how many? how often?).
I will also get some human grade probiotics but I`m not sure what they are, please advise

That`s about it for now. If anyone has any more ideas I`d love to hear them of course.

My best wishes to all and many thanks for all your help.


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## EdMurray (Jan 28, 2006)

Another little update:

I just let his girlfriend in and Shalken started cooing and moving his head up and down like they do when they do that courting ritual thing!
He was even scratching himself, and he hasn`t hardly moved in three days! It is so good to see!
As I write this, I can hear him scattering his seeds around!
Just checked on him and he has come out of his covers...I think I`m going to leave him for a while and not put him back in...he looks very alert, is cooing, and seems "interested" in things if that makes any sense.

All the best,
Ed.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Ed, this is one of the greatest pigeon rescue stories I've ever heard. He might not let you near him (some pigeons are like that) but he must love you very much and trust me, he knows all you did for him and is very greatful.

I am glad he is feeling better. I hope he just was a little under the weather (happens to them just like with us humans) and now starts feeling better. I hope that's what it is.
Anyways keep an eye on him and hope he recovers fully within the next few days.
Treesa will be on soon and will give you all the doses you need. She is our expert in natural treatments.

Reti


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

What a wonderful story and rescue, thank you so much for helping this needy youngster!

Keep him isolated for a day or two just to make sure whatever he has is cleared up. He needs to rest as that helps with healing and stress of trying to act like a normal pigeon may bring him down again.

The apple cider vinegar, is best if you can find the all natural kind. The dose is 2 tablespoons to a gallon water, so that will give you enough to do a whole flock, and I'm sure the wild pigeons won't mind!  Apple cider vinegar provides the proper PH in the crop and gut that bacteria, like coccidiosis and canker don't like. Make sure the measurement is exact, a little less is better then more, some birds don't relish the taste, in which case add less to the water.

Do you have a health food store available to you? Probiotics can be purchased at health food store, usually in the refrigerated section. Acidophilus is one bacteria, there are usually many others. They provide good gut bacteria to humans as well as birds. Sometimes just the addition of this will crowd out any bacterial infection they have. Now brand soft gel garlic caps, one a day will do fine, or you can actually cut a clove and put a little of it in the water bowl, on the day you are not using ACV.

Thank you for being such a wonderful caregiver.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Ed,

Your story about Shalken is one of the best rescue stories I've read as well, 
and the set up that you've provided to him over the years is so ideal. I'm glad to hear that he is doing better and that his girlfriend continues to come and go which I'm sure brings him good cheer and hope, along with your visits of course  .

The natural vinegar described, is the one w/the 'mother' in it. It will appear somewhat cloudy/stringy in the bottom of the container, this is the mother as opposed to the clear kinds that have been pasteurized. According to Chalmers,
one tablespoon per gallon is all that is needed to create the acidic environment that the 'good bacteria' likes to thrive in. 'Bad bacteria' does not like acidic environments and so will not multiply. Many folks do put 2 tbls. per galloon, although you wouldn't want to go higher than that, as Teresa mentioned.

You can also get the garlic in a capsule as well as the probiotic. Many of the chain drug stores have a vitamin section with these items if you have no health food store close by. 

Also, if you check our resource section, there is a link to pigeon supply houses that you can get nutritional supplements from as well as other products for your pigeon. Here is a link for pigeon supplies in the UK that is not listed in our resource section:

http://www.everythingforpets.com/category/use.dept.1/

Thanks for all you have done for this little guy to give him quality life and companionship.

fp


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, Ed,

You're not the only member in Northamptonshire. We have at least one rehabber over there somewhere who's pretty good. This is one of her posts:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=103930&postcount=20

I'm going to email her with this thread link so that she can step in here in case Shalken doesn't rebound.

Pidgey


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hello Ed, great story about Shalken.

The first thing that popped into my head was worms. Since he is confined to the ground, he may have picked some up. Or, coccidiosis.

Maggie


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Lady Tarheel said:


> Hello Ed, great story about Shalken.
> 
> The first thing that popped into my head was worms. Since he is confined to the ground, he may have picked some up. Or, coccidiosis.
> 
> Maggie


Maggie has a good point about the worms especially as your pij is a grounded one. That is something that you can have a treatment for on hand through the pij supply houses in addition to the herbal remedies for on going care.

fp


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Hi there Ed,

What an amazing story and such a good surprise. When I opened your posts today I wasn't sure what I would read but your story was really touching. It is a beautiful story about love, trust and loyalty for a disabled bird.

I wanted to comment about the amount of food Shalken is eating (or not eating). A quote from your past post is as follows:

_I had to go out for a couple of hours then and when I got back in he was all out of his covers and I noticed that his seed bowl was almost empty, not that he had eaten it all, but it was all scattered around, good style_. 

Scatttering seeds means Shalken is selecting what he likes and this is a good, normal behavior for pigeons. It doesn't tell you how much, if any, he ate though. I have only recently started putting out a measured amount of seed for my bird. At the end of the day I collect up the remainder to see how much he ate and what kinds of seeds he is favouring. This has yielded some usefull information for me about his state of health and about what I might be feeding him.

I would say, if Shalken is still under the weather, let him have as much as he wants for the moment of any particular seed but try to measure what remains so you will know how much was actually consumed. And please keep posting to keep everyone updated on Shalkens progress. I think you are doing a really good job Ed and your friend is being well cared for.

Cameron


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Ed,


Raw, Apple Cider Vinegar...one and one-half Tablespoons to the ( U.S., but Imperial would likely be not so far off as to make much difference) Gallon of Water.

Let this then be his drinking Water for a while...


Now...the 'Tube Paint' kind of 'Green' is maybe not a good thing when we see it.

I see it in starved Pigeons, who have not eaten in some time...

I do not see it otherwise that I recall.

So, it yields then to something else once they are eating and food is being digested and so on to pass through...

Columbia 'Liva' anyway, normally, should make poops which are moist, yet firm enough to be easily picked up with one's fingers...and, generally, these will be about the size of a Raisen, but some Birds make smaller ones and some larger.

If you can locate a sympathetic Bird Rehabber or Avian Vet, who are experienced in doing fecal exams, then do see about gathering a Tablespoon or so of poop for a sample and bring it to them, or Next-Day Mail to them, for them to analyse.

What is his diet?

Obviously he gets good fresh air, Sunshine when you have it, and plenty of excercise and social life...and these of course are all very good things...

Now, he might have some kind of 'worms' which have made him feel ill or effected his health...these - if intestinal or stomach - will likely show in the fecal exam in some way.


Well, off to bed for me now...

Hope all goes well with him...!

I enjoyed your recounting of your and his story...

Best wishes,

Phil
Las Vegas


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## EdMurray (Jan 28, 2006)

Hello all.
Well, thank you for the great advice and I have taken it...as far as I can at the moment.
I`ve had Shalken on the Apple Cider Vinegar for about three days now and I have to say, there is a great improvement from what he was like last week. He is still not his old self however, and doesn`t seem inclined to go out at the moment which is of course, fine by me, he can stay in as long as he wants.
He has been eating on his own for a few days now so no worries there either, and he does buck up a bit when his girlfriend comes in and they start canoodling each other lol.
Today I picked up some Acidophilus capsules and wanted to know how much do I give him, and how.
On the bottle it says it is Acidophilus with 100mg Pectin...are they safe for him? I take it each capsule is 100mg. I`d appreciate any advice on how much to give him.

All my best to everyone and thanks again for your help.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

EdMurray said:


> Today I picked up some Acidophilus capsules and wanted to know how much do I give him, and how.
> On the bottle it says it is Acidophilus with 100mg Pectin...are they safe for him? I take it each capsule is 100mg. I`d appreciate any advice on how much to give him.



Hi Ed, 

There really is no set dose for probiotics/acidophilus for pigeons or animals. They can't overdose on these products. If these capsules are small enough for the pigeon to swallow, I would give him 1/day for about a week. Then you can taper off to 2-3 capsules per week after that for maintanence purposes.


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## EdMurray (Jan 28, 2006)

Hi Pigeonpal,
Thanks for getting back to me so quickly.

I think they just might be a little too large for him to swallow comfortably, I`m probably wrong about that but I don`t want to take any chances.

I`m nor sure what is inside them, liquid or powder? I`ll have to open one and see. Whatever it is though, could I add it to his water like I have been doing the Cider Vinegar? His water trough holds about two pints so I`d probably add say three capsules? Or would it be better to mix the contents with just a small amout of water and try and do it with the syringe?
Should I keep him on these for very long? 
It is good to know about it being hard to overdose on them though.

Hope you don`t mind all the questions, it`s just that I`m a novice with this am just feeling my way.

Your help is very much appreciated.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Ed, no problem about the questions

It's powder inside and you could try to add it to the water but I've found that it normally doesn't mix well with water and will float on top instead. It depends on the kind of probiotics they are and what ingredients have been added to them. Try and see if it mixes with water and if it doesn't, you'll see a layer on top kind of like how oil rises to the top of water.

You could sprinkle the powder on the seeds though. First you would lightly coat the seeds with oil such as corn, olive or sunflower oil. Just a few drops really, then sprinkle the powder from the capsules on and mix the seeds well. Try experimenting with both ways and see.

Probiotics/acidophilus should be a regular supplement given to pigeons. Like I mentioned, try giving these for about a week or so every day then you can reduce it to 2-3 days a week. The good bacteria contained in these products keep pigeons healthy, especially if they are sick. You could purchase probiotics from the pigeon supply stores that are meant to be put in the water if that would be easier for you.


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## EdMurray (Jan 28, 2006)

"You could sprinkle the powder on the seeds though. First you would lightly coat the seeds with oil such as corn, olive or sunflower oil. Just a few drops really, then sprinkle the powder from the capsules on and mix the seeds well. Try experimenting with both ways and see."

Brilliant!  
Exactly the sort of advice I was looking for!
I think that is the best way for me to go at the moment...as I say he is eating fine on his own now.
I`m going to do him up some new seeds right now and start getting some into him.

Thanks so much Pigeonpal (or can I call you Brad?)


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

EdMurray said:


> Thanks so much Pigeonpal (or can I call you Brad?)


You're welcome And you can call me Brad, it's my name afterall


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Brad has given you excellent advice. I like the probiotics on the seeds too.
For sick pigeons I do give a whole capsule down their throat and I had never had a problem them not swallowing it, even the young (small pigeons) had no trouble. You can wet the capsule in water and it goes down easily.

Reti


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

*Hi Ed,*

I do hope Shalken will make a full recovery! You have done such a remarkable job with him! Have you had a chance to have a fecal check for worms or other nasties?

Mr. Squeaks and I wish you all the best and look forward to updates.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Reti said:


> For sick pigeons I do give a whole capsule down their throat and I had never had a problem them not swallowing it, even the young (small pigeons) had no trouble. You can wet the capsule in water and it goes down easily.
> Reti


*If you do give the whole capsule down the throat it is best to put some olive oil on the tip before you put it down the back of the throat, it is much easier to administer. You have to be very careful, especially when giving it to the smaller birds, like I have given at times to my Satinettes. 

The capsule glides easily, when slippery behind the back of the tongue, but you do have to use your index finger to gently push it down the throat. When you don't see it anymore, gently close beak, and rub their neck (under throat) in downward strokes.

The reason we give the whole caps a few days, is because it will quickly repopulate good bacteria, crowding out bad bacteria. This is very beneficial with diseases of the gut, and when the birds are doing huge wet poops. Only use the whole caps a few days, and go back to administring a small serving.

This supportive care, is used in conjunction with garlic, ACV, and more depending on their symptoms.*


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## EdMurray (Jan 28, 2006)

Hello all.
Mr Squeaks, I`m taking Shalken to a vets tomorrow courtesy of my sister. I intend to take some fecal stuff with me (fresh) and see what he says.
Shalken is well enough to wish back to you and Mr Squeaks good health too

Tress Grey and Reti:
I actually did manage to get a capsule down his throat, well I say "manage", it went down pretty easily to be honest!
I wet the first one ala Reti`s instructions and it went down a treat, the next time I`ll dip it in olive oil and I expect it will go down even easier.

I`m not so concerned like I was this time last week, I really thought I was going to lose him, but Shalken is certainly not himself...he is eating, drinking, cooing with his lady friend, but he seems so reluctant to leave the confines of his nest area. He was so adventurous before, now he seems he doesn`t want to move around too much.
I don`t mean he is paralysised or anything, he can certainly walk around when he wants to, it`s just the change in his behavoiur is so noticable.

I know any one of you here who has pigeons or any other pet as such, will know exaclty what I mean. You know instantly when your charge isn`t up to par.

Best wishes to all as always,
Ed.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I know what you mean, sometimes even if they act quite normal, I know something is wrong. Usually they get back to their normal state in a few days.
I am glad you are taking Shalken to the vet. Many thanks to your sister.

Reti


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

EdMurray said:


> I know any one of you here who has pigeons or any other pet as such, will know exaclty what I mean. You know instantly when your charge isn`t up to par.
> Best wishes to all as always,
> Ed.


Hi Ed,

Thank you for doing everything to get Shalken back to his usual happy active self. I know right away when one of mine aren't feeling 100%. 

Glad you are taking him to the vet.


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## Karen 210773 (Mar 17, 2004)

Hiya, my name is Karen and I'm too in Northampton, i'm sorry I have only just seen this post as my son's been in hospital for past week, and also Pidgey wrote to my email addy advising me of the post, so sorry for the delay. Well sounds like you have been doing brilliant with him. Which vets did you take him too and what was the outcome? Really appreciate an update to whats happening now. So nice that you have made the relationship a lasting one and he is confortable around you and trusts you ) So nice to find someone else in Northampton too who has the love of pigeons ) Please keep us posted x


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

I'm glad you're having a vet check him out. It could be partly psychological if something bad happened to him while he was out, such as an attack by a predator. 

We no longer free-fly our pigeons, but when we did, we had a few birds that ran into trouble while out and they didn't want to go _anywhere_ once we got them back. One survived a hawk attack, one got into poison and barely survived, another got lost for a week. None of them acted like themselves for quite awhile after returning. In your case Shalken may have some physical issues too, as did my pigeon that was poisoned. But a pigeon that has a close call is often reluctant to leave the safety of home next time.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Birdmom, now that you mentioned it. My Victoria who was poisoned, her mate died due to poisoning and her babies were removed (killed) was depressed for a long time. She's been living with me for a year and a half now, has a new mate, no babies though, but still acts quite odd sometimes, she is the most quiet pigeon I have, and distrust me, she never got used to me poor thing. I don't blame her, she knows humans did this to her.
Ok, sorry I went off topic now, but thought I share Vic's story.

Reti


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

There is a psychological element in all kinds of physical as well as emotional trauma our pigeons face, whether it is injury, poisoning, disease, and losing their mate or/and babies, and more. Some things will effect them much more then others.

Psychological stress should always be considered in every patient we take on in rehab. You have to consider both physical and mental, as each will effect the other. 

We don't know their full history sometimes, and we should therefore respect their needs, and rehab the physical being as well as the emotional part of them. Once the physical body starts healing and the bird feels better overall the wmotional well being will also change, to the extent that they are capable.

You can support their overall good health by supplying them with B complex vitamins that will boost their energy, and a give them a sense of well-being, and happiness. Brewers yeast is a good source, and can be sprinkled in the seed, or can be bought in pellet form also. Calcium and vitamin D will help with calming the nerves, as well as build calcium reserves. Nutrients found in good varied diet usually supports mental as well as physical health. They go hand in hand.


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## EdMurray (Jan 28, 2006)

Hello all, just a little update.

Shalken was free of worms and is now well out of the woods according to the vet, although he didn`t really seem to know as much about it all as some of the great people here do/did. The vet`s advice was pretty minimal to be honest but he said he could find nothing wrong with him. I did mention the possible effects of fright or trauma and he agreed that that could be a factor but as people here said, it is very hard to tell what happened in such an instance, if anything happened at all that is. 

He`s still not his old self though, seems reluctant to "do anything".

Anyway, he is eating well, and is having regular probiotics and his apple vinegar and for the past couple of days I have opened the patio doors and sort of encouraged him to go out for half an hour...it has been rather sunny here the past couple of days and not cold where I let him out. He seems happy enough when he`s out there but I don`t let him stay out too long at the moment.
He`s making plenty of noise with his girlfriend but don`t think they have "done it" as such for a while, but as I say, there is no rush for him to do anything he doesn`t want to.
I`m quite happy with his progress, just wish he would get right back to his original lively state.

Anyway, thank you everyone for replying to my posts, I can`t thank you enough for your friendliness and advice.
Thank you too Karen for replying...good to know there are others near who care

All the very best to everyone and their feathered friends,
Ed.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Ed,



Glad to hear he has been given a 'Clean Bill of Health'..!

It could just be that some close call with a Cat or other scarey Animal had given him some sobering pause for thought...and intruded on his previous blithe Spirit and sense of casual security and Bon Vivant self.

He is a 'Ground Bird' yes? So he might now have come to some anxiety about what can be 'out there', where, he may not fly up or away if he needs to.

I had raised a Roooster when I was a kid, from a hatchling...and, he one day had some altercation with a Cat, when he was pretty well just full grown...and for three days or so, he just stood like a statue, and we'd pick him up and put him here, or there, in the house ot take him back out to poop now and then, and so on, till gradually he came out of it, and for some while after that, he was not so 'easy' and happy-go-lucky with things like he had been previous...

I forgot about this, havent thought of it for years...


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Ed, 

Glad to hear the good update from the vets and that there were no worms found in Shalken

I have some questions for you about your situation, I have a theory of what might be going on. It could be totally wrong or even silly to suggest but just maybe. I'm at work right now so I can't really get into a long discussion back and forth and I have quite a few questions as well to ask. Will try to get back about this tomorrow.

Thanks again for the update though, sounds promising


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Hi Ed, 

I wouldn't want to be too concerned about minimal advice from the vet. Vets, like doctors will for the most part give the clinical view and they will sum it up for you in just a few short words. That is them just doing their job as they were trained without getting too emotionally involved. This is normal. For moral support, advice, personal experiences, life philosophy, emotional reaction and good alternative health ideas this is the place to be at pigeon-talk. You can probably feel it every time you sign in. 

Just like I do too.

Cameron


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

That is great news Shalken got a clean bill of health from the vet.
You're doing a great job with him. With time and TLC he will get back to his normal self, no doubt.

Reti


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## EdMurray (Jan 28, 2006)

Hello all and thanks for your good wishes, they are all appreciated.

I will try and get my sister`s digital camera in due course and take a couple of pictures of Shalken and his good lady and post them here. They make a handsome couple

Brad, I look forward to your thoughts on the matter as always.

All the best,
Ed.


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Ed, I'm so glad Shalken was cleared by the vet and is physically okay. It may take awhile for him to fully return to being himself. My hen that was lost for a week acted very strange for several months after her return. She had no physical injuries. She had been a great mother, in fact she and her mate had raised four broods that year. But after getting lost and returning she would build a nest, lay eggs, then scatter the eggs and nesting material and abandon it. It was the strangest thing. Eventually she returned to normal and would sit her eggs for the whole brooding period again. But whatever happened to her really rattled her.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Ed, 

Ok, I'm questioning my theory today as I just went through and re-read all your posts on Shalken, however...

Are you very familiar with pigeons' behaviour and do you know for sure whether Shalken is male and not female? Have you seen who sits on the nest during the day and night...males on during the day and females take the overnight shift.

Anyways, I was thinking that perhaps Shalken was female and perhaps was having complications with passing an egg when this all happened. Perhaps she was in distress. On this same note, I was thinking that even if Shalken is male, that they are the ones that will find a nesting spot to call to the female. Sometimes they will just sit and lay down, calling to their mate to come and inspect the nesting area. They can be very persistant and almost go into a trance at times. Have you seen this behaviour before and does it sound like this could be a possibility? Sometimes, males are very tenacious in this respect and if his mate is unable to come and visit him, he might just sit around waiting for her.

Anyway, as I said, it was only a theory and probably not the greatest one but I'm trying to see the simpler aspect of things. From your descriptions, he sounds basically fine otherwise and this is just one thing I came up with.

Sorry if I'm insulting your intelligence at all with these suggestions. It seemed like a good theory last night but I needed to refresh your story.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

You know, realistically there isn't a way for a vet or a doctor to give anyone a "clean bill of health". You never know what mischief is working inside when it comes right down to it. I think Shalken passed a fecal float and that doesn't even actually have to mean that he's not full of worms. For instance, a bird ingests a bunch of worm eggs because he took one small mouthful of dirt that had some laying in it. They hatch out in the stomach and penetrate the intestinal lining, go into the bloodstream, make their way to the lungs and spend a few weeks growing. 

In the meantime, the bird has a little bit of discomfort from that but presents no symptoms that we can detect other than not being as perky. The worms finally get coughed up and swallowed and finally lodge in the intestines to grow to their full size. I don't know how big they have to get or how old they have to be in order to start laying eggs but it's a chunk. And I think I've read that there are both male and female worms so it's even possible to have several male worms with no females which wouldn't make any eggs at all. My bird Debbie didn't have any worm eggs in her fecals for awhile and I finally wormed her because the other symptoms said they had to be there. I got quite a few out.

I'm just pointing out that we can never be completely certain, even with a plethora of lab equipment. There are, quite simply, too many things that they can get. You just have to keep an eye out for all the symptoms and sometimes take a leap of faith.

Pidgey


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Pidgey, 

Wouldn't you and the others agree though, that sometimes.....sometimes, there isn't a medical reason behind why pigeons behave the way they do? Would you agree that perhaps that not everything that happens to pigeons is necessarily connected to an illness?

I find that on occasion, we as humans feel the need to look deeper and we question things exponentially when we don't understand. In my years of pigeons, I've come to realize that not everything that goes wrong with pigeons can be found in a medical textbook or disease symptom list. They are living beings and they have behaviours that sometimes we just don't understand.

I think it's worth considering these options at times and just chalk it up to that, I'm not saying in this particular case that there is nothing wrong healthwise. However, whether this situation or any other, there might be times where we are just left scratching our heads? 

Sometimes we/us are just so darn close to the source of concern that perhaps we make too much out of things?....possible or not


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Yes, I believe that they have a full array of emotions, just like the rest of us. I've certainly seen them get depressed for unknown reasons. And they certainly are individuals--there are curious ones, mean ones, loving ones, stand-offish ones, ad nauseum. I do tend to worry if an individual changes his behavior though. And, of course, there are only so many tests that you can do on the outside of the bird. If nothing shows up, then about all you can do is make sure they get plenty of good things like vitamins, probiotics, sunshine and luvvin' (unless they're allergic). If that don't work... then you just worry.

Pidgey


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## EdMurray (Jan 28, 2006)

Hi Brad, thanks for getting back to me as always.

I`m pretty sure Shalken is the guy but I`m not an expert.
Afew points why I think so:

He is on the eggs during the day.
He is by far the main nest builder.
I`ve seen his lady friend on the nest for ages when she is trying to pass an egg and although I haven`t actually seen it, she is always the one to emerge after the laying.
He is the baritone, she is the soprano. That is very noticable...is that a good indication of sex by the way?


All the best,
Ed.

Edited to add:
I have peeked when they get it on (can`t help it, they are noisey about it!) and Shalken is the one who jumps on her...I know, shame on me


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Hey Ed,

That sure sounds like a giveaway tell tale sign to me. I'm with you now on who is male and who is not.

Cameron


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## EdMurray (Jan 28, 2006)

"Hey Ed,
That sure sounds like a giveaway tell tale sign to me. I'm with you now on who is male and who is not.
Cameron"

Hey Camrron...
Yep, he likes his lady, he is a bit frisky as they say! And so very affectionate...I think he knows "Valentines Day" is coming up LOL


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## EdMurray (Jan 28, 2006)

I'm resurrecting this thread to post a couple of pictures of my two pigeons, Shalken (who has only one wing), and Wing Pong (so named because he used to use his wing like a ping pong bat to shoo me away!).
Their stories are in this thread for those who didn't read it first time around, Shalken who had his wing amputated, and Wing Pong who I found with a broken wing and tried to fix him up best I could. Wing Pong looks very grown up these days and not like the baby in the pictures! 
My Shalken is a fine looking bird is he not he is my old chap and close to my heart (not that the others arenlt too of course!)

First Shalken.


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## EdMurray (Jan 28, 2006)

Shalken again


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## EdMurray (Jan 28, 2006)

Last one of Shalken


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## EdMurray (Jan 28, 2006)

First Wing Pong


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## EdMurray (Jan 28, 2006)

Last picture.
My best to all here and their feathered friends.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

What a couple of sweeties.  

Thanks for sharing.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Ed, they are both beautiful. Shalken's lack of a wing is barely noticeable. The vet did a good job. You did a good job too on Wing Pong's broken wing. I can't even tell it was ever broken.


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Handsome birds  
Very literate too. That's some heavy reading they do  
Happy Father's Day


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Ed, beautiful birds and Ill bet smart ones too with all that interesting reading material.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

They are very pretty, healthy and happy looking birds.
Thank you for sharing their pics.

Reti


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Thank you, Ed! THise were very cheering photographs!

Do you have an outdoor aviary? If not, have you considered having one? Karen is looking at the possibility of finding her pigeons and their aviary a new home and I wondered if you might be interested. She has 10 unreleasable pigeons.

Cynthia


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

I love them both, but that Shalken is a real looker.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Ed, 

Your pictures are just wonderful...Shalken is a gorgeous pigeon and Wing Pong is too. I agree with the others and that their handicaps are hardly noticeable. They both surely mean very much to you!

Thank you for posting some pictures finally, you did it!


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Great pictures, Ed! Such handsome pijies!!!

That wing whacking I love to call Wing Fu, so I love your Wing Pong name!!

Whatever happened to Shalken's mate?

Hugs and Scritches to ALL

Shi
& Mr. Squeaks


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## EdMurray (Jan 28, 2006)

cyro51 said:


> Thank you, Ed! THise were very cheering photographs!
> 
> Do you have an outdoor aviary? If not, have you considered having one? Karen is looking at the possibility of finding her pigeons and their aviary a new home and I wondered if you might be interested. She has 10 unreleasable pigeons.
> 
> Cynthia


I'm very sorry I can't help here.
I am presently living in a flat in the town center with only a balcony and my pigeons (I have three permanent guests...Shalken, Wing Pong and Shalken's wife) plus two pigeons I am trying to help back to health as we speak.
I'd love an aviary with plenty of room to take more in.


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