# odd pair, advice needed



## Cassiopeia (Oct 9, 2007)

My best hen just remated...with an infertile cock. It's their choice and I don't really want to mess with it too much, but I need her raising chicks, and I can't use them as surrogate parents. I could probably re-mate them, but I keep all my birds in one large, undivided aviary, so that could be a problem. Any suggestions?


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## Pigeon lower (Oct 23, 2007)

give the cock to a buddy to hold?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Cassiopeia said:


> My best hen just remated...with an infertile cock. It's their choice and I don't really want to mess with it too much, but I need her raising chicks, and I can't use them as surrogate parents. I could probably re-mate them, but I keep all my birds in one large, undivided aviary, so that could be a problem. Any suggestions?


Why do you NEED her to raise chicks? Do you mean you need for her to raise her OWN babies? And.........why can't you use them as surrogate parents? The only way to get her to take a new fertile mate is to remove the cock that she's mated to now.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

I've got to run, so thought I'd run this by you real quick.
Even though the cock is infertile, if you give them some dummy eggs when another pair of your birds lay eggs and let them sit on them..........you can then switch the "good" eggs to them and they will still raise the babies. Being infertile has no bearing on whether they will raise babies or not.  Just means he can't "make" babies...........but if allowed to sit on the eggs for 19 days, they'll raise them just fine, as long as he's not REAL old, like 15 years old or something.


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## Cassiopeia (Oct 9, 2007)

I know how to do surrogate parenting, I've done it before, but the thing is, I've only got one nesting couple other than them, and she's easily my best bird, beautifully colored, and a great flyer. I have other pigeons at this point, but all cocks, no hens, and no way of getting any more within the next six months. I'd really like for her to have chicks of her own. Is there any way of just getting her eggs fertilized by another male and letting her and her mate raise them?


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## Pigeon lower (Oct 23, 2007)

were do you live?


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## Cassiopeia (Oct 9, 2007)

northern Illinois


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I think your world would be much easier if you just found some way to separate the male from the hen, or just let them raise the other pair's eggs.
If you were to use them as foster parents, it would go a lot quicker if you think about it. Separating a mated pair and re-mating them takes long enough....then you have to wait for them to get their nest ready and lay eggs. If you just replace their eggs with the fertile eggs, then the fertile pair should lay again within 3 days to a week depending on just how they are (all birds are different  ). Seems to me like things would go quicker, don't you think?
About getting her fertilized by another male but still keeping her current mate - it is possible, but a bit of trouble. First off, she'd need to be ready to mate and lay. Second, you'd need another male that is desperate for a hen. If it was like that, then you'd have to find some kind of separate cage to put them in so that there is a chance she'd let him top her. Hopefully she'd actually get fertilized, and you could return her to her original mate. It's a bunch of trouble when you have one big single cage, and there's no guarantee it would even work. I've had accidents happen in the loft where I'd have a big cocky male and a desperate hen, and I'd end up with a pair of good homers that 'mysteriously' hatched out a pair of huge Runt looking things (and the male Runt even had a mate himself! I think he had a little more pride than he needed...haha).

If anything else...the fertile pair will hatch off a boy and a girl, so then you'll have another free hen to mate up, and they'll start multiplying pretty quickly 

Are you sure its the male that is infertile?


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## Cassiopeia (Oct 9, 2007)

Very sure it's the male. The female's mate died recently, and they had hatched eggs no problem. Once she re-mated with this male though, their last three cltches haven't hatched.

Thanks for your advice. As I said though, she's a particularly beautiful bird, and I'd like to see some chicks from her. anyone got any ideas? If not, I'll probably just use them as fosters.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Cassiopeia said:


> Very sure it's the male. The female's mate died recently, and they had hatched eggs no problem. Once she re-mated with this male though, their last three cltches haven't hatched.
> 
> Thanks for your advice. As I said though, she's a particularly beautiful bird, and I'd like to see some chicks from her. anyone got any ideas? If not, I'll probably just use them as fosters.


Just a thought...you said the hen"s mate recently died, do you know why he died? Could be the hen is harboring an illness that is transfered to the chicks preventing them from hatching.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

That's a good point. Some pigeons will never show a disease and will just carry it. Paratyphoid can cause death in the shell I think  ? I do know that paratyphoid can cause the hen or male to be infertile, or at least lower the chance or fertility.
There's some pills at Foy's Pigeon supplies that "supposedly" makes pigeons fertile. I'm not a very strong believer that those actually work, but then again I've never tried them. Is there anywhere you could possibly take the male for a while? Either that or maybe make or find something to keep him in until she re-mates? We have an old rabbit hutch type thing that works pretty well for isolating a pair to mate so you get the pair you want. Maybe you could find something simple like that. Just a thought


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

MaryOfExeter said:


> That's a good point. Some pigeons will never show a disease and will just carry it. Paratyphoid can cause death in the shell I think  ? I do know that paratyphoid can cause the hen or male to be infertile, or at least lower the chance or fertility.
> There's some pills at Foy's Pigeon supplies that "supposedly" makes pigeons fertile. I'm not a very strong believer that those actually work, but then again I've never tried them. Is there anywhere you could possibly take the male for a while? Either that or maybe make or find something to keep him in until she re-mates? We have an old rabbit hutch type thing that works pretty well for isolating a pair to mate so you get the pair you want. Maybe you could find something simple like that. Just a thought


I seem to remember that back in October or so, Cassiopea had many pigeons that were sick and several, at the least died. I remember calling around to find a veterinarian in her area that would treat birds. I don't know if she was ever able to even have a fecal done. It could be that this infertility is related to that illness that went through her coop. Better to deal with that now than separate a mated pair.


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## Cassiopeia (Oct 9, 2007)

Yes, they did recently have an illness, but I had them all checked over and treated, and the male and his previous mate hadn't been able to hatch any of the eggs they laid either. I could easily just keep her and another isolated until they re-mate, but wouldn't she just go back to the previous male after I put them back in the aviary?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Oh good.That's really great news. 
What were the results of the check up? With what were they treated? Maybe the treatment needs to be repeated.
Were you able to use one of the vets I found for you?


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Cassiopeia said:


> I could easily just keep her and another isolated until they re-mate, but wouldn't she just go back to the previous male after I put them back in the aviary?


Sometimes they do, and sometimes they don't. You'll never know until you try. Isolate her and the other until you're sure they're mated and have a nice little bond going on. Then you can try putting them back in the main loft. If her old mate seems to be causing some problems between her and the new one, just isolate the old mate. Then if you ever have a hen that you're willing to turn into a foster parent, you can mate her to the infertile male and he won't cause the others any problems anymore. 
I always found the separation process a whole lot quicker if I could mate both the hen and the male with other birds.


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