# They are fighting for almost a month now!



## kcirtap18 (Mar 27, 2005)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bb0Oqo3N3hU&feature=youtu.be

i want this two to be paired.. unfortunately they are always fighting.. i tried to starve them but they are still fighting.. what should i do? they dont want to pair.. help! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8xvZMMr-Ns&feature=youtu.be

as you can see, they are both aggressive. they are even fighting me whenever i feed them.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Are you sure the check is a hen? How does starving them entice them to pair, Usually a bird that is well fed is more likely to breed than one that is hungry


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## kcirtap18 (Mar 27, 2005)

i read that when a pigeon is too aggressive.. you must starve so it will not fight with other pigeon.. yes im sure its a hen.. it looks like a hen right?


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

It looks like a hen yeah but sometimes looks can be deceving, It is quite agressive to you but that does not mean it's not a hen. Has it ever laid an egg or paired with a different cock?

I'm not sure if what you read is the best advice when you are trying to breed pigeons. I certainly prefer to keep the pigeons healthy and fulll of food to encourage breeding.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Judging by the way the check is acting around the 26 second mark of the first vid it looks like a cockbird


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## kcirtap18 (Mar 27, 2005)

the one who sold me the check told me that it is a hen. he even shown me an egg. but the egg is too small, probably immature. he told me that it has even a pair. but i dont like its pair so i decided to buy another cock to be its pair. but until now they are not pairing. im already desperate and want to cull them.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

You have no reason to cull them, Try putting the check into a cage with a hen and see what happens.


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## kcirtap18 (Mar 27, 2005)

ok.. ill try finding another hen to be paired with the grizzle.thanks!


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## drifter (Oct 7, 2009)

Sounds as if you have two cocks.


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## Kalkbl (May 10, 2010)

You starve them then put one small bowl of food in and then expect them to not fight??? Even a Mated pair will fight for food if it is starved.. Crazy!!


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## kcirtap18 (Mar 27, 2005)

Kalkbl said:


> You starve them then put one small bowl of food in and then expect them to not fight??? Even a Mated pair will fight for food if it is starved.. Crazy!!


the idea of starving them is.. if the pigeons are starve, all they want to do is eat.. they will not mine other pigeons. they will just focus eating until fully satisfied. can you fight if you are weak and starve? of course not, you will eat first. this technique always works for me until now, thats why im asking for help already because this doesn't happen usually.. and for the mated pair, i dont see mated pairs fighting for food, sure they will be in a hurry but never fight, are you sure they are even pair?lol i think i have really 2 cocks, ive already talk to one of my friend and ask him to lend me a hen. ill post the update here. thanks


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## TylerBro (Mar 14, 2011)

Can she see her old mate ?,if so put something so she can no longer see him if its not a cock bird


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

They are probably 2 cocks. Regardless, leaving them together like that if all they do is fight is wrong. Even if they are hen and cock, if they don't want to pair up, then find them other mates. Starving them is wrong.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

If the hen was paired And you just broke it up To repair it That will take time. Seperate them NOW let the hen rest for say 1 month. Then try agian. Not feeding them makes them starve It does not help them.. Things take time. Do not be in a hurry. I have had hens before that would not take a mate for months. So pull this hen and give her time away from any cock bird


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## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

starving birds is inhimane and cruel.. 
some people just shouldnt keep pigeons..ugh


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## Formidable1 (Jan 30, 2012)

IMO, you cannot just take the hen away from her original mate and try to re-pair her up. Some hen can be very aggressive and act like a cock. Starving them will do them no good. When they are starve, they will not think about mating, their focus will be on finding food to survive. Even if they are pre-mated, they wouldn't mate if there are not enough food available.


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

goga82 said:


> starving birds is inhimane and cruel..
> some people just shouldnt keep pigeons..ugh


Well said! No matter what, starving should never be used for any problem.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

These birds are not inanimate things you know. If already mated to another bird, why would you assume that she would want to mate up with a new cock?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

kcirtap18 said:


> *the idea of starving them is.. if the pigeons are starve, all they want to do is eat.. *they will not mine other pigeons. they will just focus eating until fully satisfied. can you fight if you are weak and starve? of course not, you will eat first. this technique always works for me until now, thats why im asking for help already because this doesn't happen usually.. and for the mated pair, i dont see mated pairs fighting for food, sure they will be in a hurry but never fight, are you sure they are even pair?lol i think i have really 2 cocks, ive already talk to one of my friend and ask him to lend me a hen. ill post the update here. thanks


 I know other members have responded but I just cannot hold myself back...I don't know where you got this idea...but, it's really an odd idea and untrue,likely concocted by someone that doesn't have a clue about pigeon behavior. Don't listen to that person anymore or if it's a site you are reading...don't read it anymore.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

kcirtap18 said:


> the idea of starving them is.. if the pigeons are starve, all they want to do is eat.. they will not mine other pigeons. they will just focus eating until fully satisfied. can you fight if you are weak and starve? of course not, you will eat first. this technique always works for me until now, thats why im asking for help already because this doesn't happen usually.. and for the mated pair, i dont see mated pairs fighting for food, sure they will be in a hurry but never fight, are you sure they are even pair?lol i think i have really 2 cocks, ive already talk to one of my friend and ask him to lend me a hen. ill post the update here. thanks


And they will continue to fight over the food, the more one eats, the longer it can last without (within reason).
Its surprising what stamina nessesity creates.

Heres an idea to try out - 
Starve your partner, they'll soon tell you where to go when you want sex


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Quazar said:


> And they will continue to fight over the food, the more one eats, the longer it can last without (within reason).
> Its surprising what stamina nessesity creates.
> 
> Heres an idea to try out -
> Starve your partner, they'll soon tell you where to go when you want sex


*LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL ROFLMAO! Literally!*


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## Josepe (Jan 10, 2011)

Starving= Bad Idea.And sometimes two birds just Will Not Pair Up.I beleive you'll find eventually you have two Cocks.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Josepe said:


> Starving= Bad Idea.And sometimes two birds just Will Not Pair Up.I beleive you'll find eventually you have two Cocks.



I think so too.


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## bigmalley (Dec 6, 2011)

im new to this and have been doing research for the last 5 months almost every night and have never haerd any one say to starve the birds for anything. maybe not feed as much to the racers bet never starve them.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Josepe said:


> Starving= Bad Idea.And sometimes two birds just Will Not Pair Up.I beleive you'll find eventually you have two Cocks.


I believe it is two cocks too



Charis said:


> I think so too.





bigmalley said:


> im new to this and have been doing research for the last 5 months almost every night and have never haerd any one say to starve the birds for anything. maybe not feed as much to the racers bet never starve them.


I have not seen anything about starving the pigeon in all my studies either and although common sense should prevailx with redards to not starving the bird I still held back from making this member fell stupid with comments such as " some people should not keep pigeons "

Remember this person is in a different country and maybe we should be helping them rather than making them doubt their ability to keep pigeons

I did not agree with any of their methods and I think I made that clear in my first posts, I also suggested splitting them up and trying a new pairing but some of your comments are nasty, Regardless of what your opinion maybe - give advice and make your opinions clear but don't put people down for being ignorant. The way to cure someones ignorance is to educate not to put them down.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

NZ Pigeon said:


> I believe it is two cocks too
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree with you 100%, Evan. I'm going to edit my first post.


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## Kalkbl (May 10, 2010)

> Remember this person is in a different country and maybe we should be helping them rather than making them doubt their ability to keep pigeons


Really?? He starves them and mistreats them for a month, Then says he is going to cull them when it is not going his way.. Then you help him!


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Kalkbl said:


> Really?? He starves them and mistreats them for a month, Then says he is going to cull them when it is not going his way.. Then you help him!


I am not sure he actually starves them, I think maybe this is a language barrier, Lots of people keep their birds hungry and I would think this is all that is happening here, The birds are obviously not starving as they look conditioned enough to me and he is still feeding them a reasonable amount from what I can see in the video.

Some people cull birds that are no longer of use to them - That is their choice, They should refrain from mentioning it on here but they can choose to do that if they wish.

And ofcourse I am helping him - He is asking for help and I personally believe us helping him will inturn help the birds.

How exactly have they been mistreated?

Thanks Charis, I understand everyones shock and I also understand peoples reactions, But lets help him help the birds aye.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

NZ Pigeon said:


> *How exactly have they been mistreated?*



Well...................locking them in together for a month when they go after each other like that, and neither can get away from the other while locked in a cage, is mistreating them. And starving them is also mistreating them. You feel that he is feeding enough from watching the video, but it sounded as though this is how he feeds them_ after_ starving them for a while.


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

Jay3 said:


> Well...................locking them in together for a month when they go after each other like that, and neither can get away from the other while locked in a cage, is mistreating them. And starving them is also mistreating them. You feel that he is feeding enough from watching the video, but it sounded as though this is how he feeds them_ after_ starving them for a while.


There are two states of wellness here. Physical and psychological. The birds do look healthy, so let's give him the benefit of the doubt that, MAYBE, he is not literally starving the birds. But Jay3 is right. It is still very harmful to the birds peace of mind to be in a state of constant agitation. Fighting for prolonged lengths of time is never good. PERIOD! To lock them in a cage, knowing they will fight, is very close to watching a dog fight. It's just not right. There can't be any legitimate reason for leaving them together and he should be strongly "helped" to understand this.

In post 11 he even states something to the effect that you can not fight if you are "weak and starve". I'm not sure how to translate this because of the language barrier.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I think the point, is to have one's say, in a way that one wants to listen rather than shaming or demeaning, so the listening stops. While shaming and demeaning may make us feel better, for a bit, it does not a thing to help the birds or show a better way of keeping pigeons. The shaming and demeaning is about what we feel we need, venting...our egos and not the best interest of the pigeons.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

kcirtap18 said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bb0Oqo3N3hU&feature=youtu.be
> 
> i want this two to be paired.. unfortunately they are always fighting.. i tried to starve them but they are still fighting.. what should i do? they dont want to pair.. help!
> 
> ...


 I am almost at a loss for words. Why in heaven's name would you put these two into a small compartment, when it is very obvious that they don't like each other, and are not in breeding condition ? 

Seperate the birds, put them somewhere where they can get some fresh air and sun shine, take a bath, etc. Assuming they already went through the four to six week medical procedure, they need time away from each other and other birds. Witholding food, makes no sense at all to me, so I have no idea what you are thinking. 

When I pair my birds after about seven to eight months of seperation, it takes about a whole two minutes in some cases. These birds simply are not ready, and forcing the issue will not make them start to like each other. All you are doing is creating all kinds of stress.


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

Charis said:


> I think the point, is to have one's say, in a way that one wants to listen rather than shaming or demeaning, so the listening stops. While shaming and demeaning may make us feel better, for a bit, it does not a thing to help the birds or show a better way of keeping pigeons. The shaming and demeaning is about what we feel we need, venting...our egos and not the best interest of the pigeons.


I'm sorry Charis, but I have to disagree with you on this one. Knowingly keeping two birds in a confined area and admitting to letting them fight for an extended period of time is wrong and he should be ashamed for letting it continue. This part of the story is just common sense. Separate the birds as soon as you see them fighting for an extended time frame. Saying that he starved his birds to weaken them so that they stop fighting should also raise eye brows, which it did.
I didn't see one post that wasn't showing concern for the birds. Maybe some could have been toned down a bit, but these issues do tend to rile people up. 

He came to the forum looking for help and after getting some very sound advice, he continued to defend his actions, at least for awhile. I think that it was his atitutude more than anything, that upset many posters.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

almondman said:


> I'm sorry Charis, but I have to disagree with you on this one. Knowingly keeping two birds in a confined area and admitting to letting them fight for an extended period of time is wrong and he should be ashamed for letting it continue. This part of the story is just common sense. Separate the birds as soon as you see them fighting for an extended time frame. Saying that he starved his birds to weaken them so that they stop fighting should also raise eye brows, which it did.
> I didn't see one post that wasn't showing concern for the birds. Maybe some could have been toned down a bit, but these issues do tend to rile people up.
> 
> He came to the forum looking for help and after getting some very sound advice, he continued to defend his actions, at least for awhile. I think that it was his atitutude more than anything, that upset many posters.




DITTO .....


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

almondman said:


> I'm sorry Charis, but I have to disagree with you on this one. *Knowingly keeping two birds in a confined area and admitting to letting them fight for an extended period of time is wrong and he should be ashamed for letting it continue.* This part of the story is just common sense. Separate the birds as soon as you see them fighting for an extended time frame. Saying that he starved his birds to weaken them so that they stop fighting should also raise eye brows, which it did.
> I didn't see one post that wasn't showing concern for the birds. Maybe some could have been toned down a bit, but these issues do tend to rile people up.
> 
> He came to the forum looking for help and after getting some very sound advice, he continued to defend his actions, at least for awhile. I think that it was his atitutude more than anything, that upset many posters.


*I'm not saying the two birds should be confined to fight. I'm not saying anything about that. I clearly said birds should not be starved.* Is that clear?
What I'm trying to get across is that one can say practically anything one wants...it's how it's said it that has an impact...either positively of negatively. Shaming, demeaning doesn't work because the recipient stops listening and often does the exact opposite.It creates a negative reaction and the pigeon is the one that suffers.We all know how some of us react here when chastised. It's not well received.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Charis said:


> *I'm not saying the two birds should be confined to fight. I'm not saying anything about that. I clearly said birds should not be starved. Is that clear?*
> What I'm trying to get across is that one can say practically anything one wants...it's how it's said it that has an impact...either positively of negatively. Shaming, demeaning doesn't work because the recipient stops listening and often does the exact opposite.It creates a negative reaction and the pigeon is the one that suffers.We all know how some of us react here when chastised. It's not well received.



Charis, I believe it was clear what you were saying. Unfortunately, you cannot reach some people who believe in their ways no matter how nicely you say it. Anyone who cages 2 birds like that for a month, and then make them go without food, hoping to weaken them so they cannot fight. And all they care about is forcing their will on them, aren't going to listen to "nice" either. They believe their way is right, and then defend it. Some don't even hear nice.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Jay3 said:


> Charis, I believe it was clear what you were saying. Unfortunately, you cannot reach some people who believe in their ways no matter how nicely you say it. Anyone who cages 2 birds like that for a month, and then make them go without food, hoping to weaken them so they cannot fight. And all they care about is forcing their will on them, aren't going to listen to "nice" either. They believe their way is right, and then defend it. Some don't even hear nice.


Again...I'm not referring to the act. I'm referring to the reaction on our part. I didn't say be nice. There's a difference between being nice and being direct, sticking to the facts rather than demeaning. I think it critical one take into account the difference in cultures as Evan said. By this point, the original poster must think we all have extra holes in our heads.
Now you know Jay, I'm not one to generally end a post with a question in this kind of discussion but let me pose this to everyone...how does it make you feel when someone tells you are wrong, when you think you are right? I don't care if you answer the question here. I just hope you will think about it.


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

Charis -
Yes - very clear. I never said anything about YOU being part of this problem. But, as already mentioned, after getting sound advice from many of the people that expressed their views in a very polite/helpful way, he still defended what he had done. IN MY OPINION, he had already stopped listening and got defensive before the other stuff got started. The fact that most of the other posters had similar ideas, including your own original posts, bear this out. And I believe the birds are already suffering.

"some people should not keep pigeons" may have been over the top. But the two biggest concerns in all of this are just common sense things that anyone should be aware of before getting birds. "Do No Harm".

Just read your response to Jay3. In this instance, the original poster is in the wrong. He asked for advice and he should take it.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

almondman said:


> Yes - very clear. I never said anything about YOU being part of this problem. But, as already mentioned, after getting sound advice from many of the people that expressed their views in a very polite/helpful way, he still defended what he had done. IN MY OPINION, he had already stopped listening and got defensive before the other stuff got started. The fact that most of the other posters had similar ideas, including your own original posts, bear this out. And I believe the birds are already suffering.
> 
> yes...I did remove the word *stupid* from my original post.
> 
> ...


And how do you propose controlling his actions? Is that your right or in your power?

It occurs to me, that this is exactly how wars begin.


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

Charis said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> And how do you propose controlling his actions? Is that your right or in your power?
> 
> It occurs to me, that this is exactly how wars begin.


I have no plans, or wishes, to control his actions. IT IS NOT MY RIGHT OR IN MY POWER. He came to this forum looking for advice. He posted the videos that have showed us his problems. He opened the door to the subsequent discussion. And I resent your implication about war. You are being just as set in your beliefs as any of the rest of us are in ours. We are ALL entitled to our opinions, and the right to express them. This is not about starting wars. It is about trying to stop the obvious suffering of two birds. Please do not loose that fact in your concern for his feelings. 

I can not control his actions, but I can let him know how I feel about his behavior towards his birds. He can take it or leave it. But is he going to stop his behavior because you were nice about showing your concerns. I don't think it really matters. In my opinion!


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## kcirtap18 (Mar 27, 2005)

LOL! i was surprise that this thread reached page 3 just to know i became monster.. ok this is for some clarification!

1. im not starving them for a MONTH now, they should have died if i do that, i just didn't let them eat that MORNING. the title of the thread is "They are FIGHTING for almost a month now!" not "They are STARVING for almost a month now!".. please stop jumping into conclusions.

2. i didn't let them be together for a MONTH to let them fight, if you can see on the second video, 0:18 mark, i've already installed the division between them to separate them from each other, which i also remove every other day for a short period of time just to check if they are already paired, which as you can see are not and still fighting.

3. i know how to take lessons, like NZ pigeon said they are 2 cocks, so i already talked to my friend and ask me to give me another hen, which i will get later.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

kcirtap18 said:


> LOL! i was surprise that this thread reached page 3 just to know i became monster.. ok this is for some clarification!
> 
> 1. im not starving them for a MONTH now, they should have died if i do that, i just didn't let them eat that MORNING. the title of the thread is "They are FIGHTING for almost a month now!" not "They are STARVING for almost a month now!".. please stop jumping into conclusions.
> 
> 2. i didn't let them be together for a MONTH to let them fight, if you can see on the second video, 0:18 mark, i've already installed the division between them to separate them from each other, which i also remove every other day for a short period of time just to check if they are already paired, which as you can see are not and still fighting.



NO one said you starved them for a whole month. YOU were the one who said you starved them. That isn't jumping to conclusions. Just taking you at your word. If you know pigeons at all, then you wouldn't have to take the partition down to know if they have paired. You would know they were interested in each other by the way they were acting toward one another even with the partition in place. They do not want to be together, and because of that you said you were thinking of culling them. You are the one who is making us view you as we do.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Charis said:


> Again...I'm not referring to the act. I'm referring to the reaction on our part. I didn't say be nice. There's a difference between being nice and being direct, sticking to the facts rather than demeaning. I think it critical one take into account the difference in cultures as Evan said. By this point, the original poster must think we all have extra holes in our heads.
> Now you know *Jay, I'm not one to generally end a post with a question in this kind of discussion but let me pose this to everyone...how does it make you feel when someone tells you are wrong, when you think you are right? *I don't care if you answer the question here. I just hope you will think about it.



I can answer you here Charis. How often have you disagreed with me on something? It happens. And when it does, you know that I will listen to what you have to say, and to your reasoning. I may then see that you have a better way, and sometimes I may still think I'm right. Some people will listen. Some won't, no matter what your wording is.


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

kcirtap18 said:


> LOL! i was surprise that this thread reached page 3 just to know i became monster.. ok this is for some clarification!
> 
> 1. im not starving them for a MONTH now, they should have died if i do that, i just didn't let them eat that MORNING. the title of the thread is "They are FIGHTING for almost a month now!" not "They are STARVING for almost a month now!".. please stop jumping into conclusions.
> 
> ...


I am sorry if we jumped to the wrong conclusions. But as Jay3 said, all of this was based on information that you gave us and how you presented your facts. I am glad to hear that you have taken appropriate actions on behalf of the birds. Let's hope that you have learned something from all the advice given, and I have learned to ask more specific questions before forming an opinion. Please be more specific with information on any future posts. Good luck.


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

Jay3 said:


> I can answer you here Charis. How often have you disagreed with me on something? It happens. And when it does, you know that I will listen to what you have to say, and to your reasoning. I may then see that you have a better way, and sometimes I may still think I'm right. Some people will listen. Some won't, no matter what your wording is.


You just have to look at Congress to know that's the truth. Like the old saying goes"It's okay to agree to disagree"


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## Kalkbl (May 10, 2010)

Yes you are right some do choose to go to war.
Sometimes war is necessary. No matter how unpleasant it is.
and whether you appreciate it or not, myself and as I am sure many others on this forum, have gone to war.
So that you can live in relative safety. And have the right to your opinion and the right to express it in any way that you choose.

The wars that have been fought may have not been just soley for your freedom. They also serve as a strong deterrent to keep evil off of our soil. Things similar to 911 happen in other countries on a regular basis. Such as bosnia, africa excetera excetera.

I know this has nothing to do with this post.
It has everything to do with the comment about war.
You despise war. Try fighting in one for someone who doesn't care 
Then you will really despise war.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

almondman said:


> I have no plans, or wishes, to control his actions. IT IS NOT MY RIGHT OR IN MY POWER. He came to this forum looking for advice. He posted the videos that have showed us his problems. He opened the door to the subsequent discussion. And I resent your implication about war. You are being just as set in your beliefs as any of the rest of us are in ours. We are ALL entitled to our opinions, and the right to express them. This is not about starting wars. It is about trying to stop the obvious suffering of two birds. Please do not loose that fact in your concern for his feelings.
> 
> I can not control his actions, but I can let him know how I feel about his behavior towards his birds. He can take it or leave it. But is he going to stop his behavior because you were nice about showing your concerns. I don't think it really matters. In my opinion!


I think this is how war is started. I think we had a mini war right here.None of it was personal on my part...I was only trying to get a point across.I feel we need to leave out the judgments to help the birds.
Yes, I am just as set in my belief to be factual and direct. I don't always succeed.I am constantly monitoring my own words.


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

Kalkbl said:


> Yes you are right some do choose to go to war.
> Sometimes war is necessary. No matter how unpleasant it is.
> and whether you appreciate it or not, myself and as I am sure many others on this forum, have gone to war.
> So that you can live in relative safety. And have the right to your opinion and the right to express it in any way that you choose.
> ...


I hear you loud and clear. I have felt your pain Thank you for your service. And please know that you have many brothers and sisters on this forum. There are places in PT to voice your thoughts on this, if you ever feel the need.


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## kcirtap18 (Mar 27, 2005)

Kalkbl said:


> Really?? He starves them and mistreats them for a month, Then says he is going to cull them when it is not going his way.. Then you help him!





Jay3 said:


> NO one said you starved them for a whole month. YOU were the one who said you starved them. That isn't jumping to conclusions. Just taking you at your word. If you know pigeons at all, then you wouldn't have to take the partition down to know if they have paired. You would know they were interested in each other by the way they were acting toward one another even with the partition in place. They do not want to be together, and because of that you said you were thinking of culling them. You are the one who is making us view you as we do.


with all due respect sir. can you please quote me when i said that i starve them for a month? and can a bird starving for a month fight like that? i believe no.. when the partition is in place, the grizzle is always courting the check, nodding every now and then. and since im usually at work, leaving my mother to feed them. i cannot fully supervise them. so i remove the partition to check if there are some improvement. and for the record, i dont always let them fight that long, i do that for the sake of posting the vid. i usually divide them in the first sign of fighting.


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## Kalkbl (May 10, 2010)

And I thank you for yours too sir.
And I truly did not mean to offend.

1 of those things when I probly shoulda just kept my mouth shut.
But I am proud that we are allowed to have our different views and different opinions. I also agree that 99 percent of the time we should never try to force our views on to somebody else.


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

Charis said:


> I think this is how war is started. I think we had a mini war right here.None of it was personal on my part...I was only trying to get a point across.I feel we need to leave out the judgments to help the birds.
> Yes, I am just as set in my belief to be factual and direct. I don't always succeed.I am constantly monitoring my own words.


I will try to as well. I do not think of this as a mini war, but as people trying to get to the same place, but on different roads. It was not meant to be personal from my end either. I never doubted your words were for the benefit of the birds, as well as for the poster. Dave


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

almondman said:


> I will try to as well. I do not think of this as a mini war, but as people trying to get to the same place, but on different roads. It was not meant to be personal from my end either. I never doubted your words were for the benefit of the birds, as well as for the poster. Dave


Thank you.


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

Kalkbl said:


> And I thank you for yours too sir.
> And I truly did not mean to offend.
> 
> 1 of those things when I probly shoulda just kept my mouth shut.
> But I am proud that we are allowed to have our different views and different opinions. I also agree that 99 percent of the time we should never try to force our views on to somebody else.


I don't think anyone was offended. And you are on this forum to express your views and opinions. That is what the forum is all about. I have to admit that several of us can over express our opinions at times. But someone usually will quietly put us back on track. Sometimes not so quietly.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Charis said:


> I think this is how war is started. I think we had a mini war right here.None of it was personal on my part...I was only trying to get a point across.I feel we need to leave out the judgments to help the birds.
> Yes, I am just as set in my belief to be factual and direct. I don't always succeed.I am constantly monitoring my own words.


Charis, Thanks for your support on this, I am not so good at getting my point across so kept quiet as you seemed to understand where I was coming from.

Lastly I would like to point out that I was also shocked to read the thread. *I tried to keep my emotion out of it and suggest seperating the birds as this is important*, For interest sake I will still like him to put the check in with a hen to see if they pair up as I'm sure if the check is a cock it will be happy to see a lovely lady after being locked up with another man for so long.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

kcirtap18 said:


> with all due respect sir. can you please quote me when i said that i starve them for a month? and can a bird starving for a month fight like that? i believe no.. when the partition is in place, the grizzle is always courting the check, nodding every now and then. and since im usually at work, leaving my mother to feed them. i cannot fully supervise them. so i remove the partition to check if there are some improvement. and for the record, i dont always let them fight that long, i do that for the sake of posting the vid. i usually divide them in the first sign of fighting.



I think some assumptions may have been made due to the language barrier. I could see you were asking for help and hopefully amongst the debate ( which i love as it educates people ) you can pull some info to help you.

Just don't mention culling here.


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## Andrew Walsh loft (Dec 10, 2011)

*stop bashing the guy people*



goga82 said:


> starving birds is inhimane and cruel..
> some people just shouldnt keep pigeons..ugh


all right bashing the guy is not a way to solve problems ok be the grown up you are and stop the non sense ok i dont like starving them eather but if the guy wants to starve them then let him do it its not you so dont worry about that but it sounds to me like you do have 2 cocks at hand here buddy


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

All points of concern have been made. Lets see how this works out And at this point we just need to wait until the poster lets use know how the problem has been resolved. No needs to post any more until we find out how this worked out


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## kcirtap18 (Mar 27, 2005)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHnY5OIiTTI&feature=youtu.be

i already put the check back to the loft and change him with a bird from my friend. hopefully its a hen now. ive already installed partition as you can see so neither of them will be injured in case one of them decided to bash the other. gonna wait for a week again for any development.. thank you guys for all the concern..


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

kcirtap18 said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHnY5OIiTTI&feature=youtu.be
> 
> i already put the check back to the loft and change him with a bird from my friend. hopefully its a hen now. ive already installed partition as you can see so neither of them will be injured in case one of them decided to bash the other. gonna wait for a week again for any development.. thank you guys for all the concern..


I have been sold hens that were cock birds and cock birds that were hens many times. The thing is when you do get a pair you need to know how to pair them up so they do not get hurt. you would let them see each other through a divider, when they seem to be acting like a couple through the partitian, then they can be put together and watch the cock for bullying. good luck with your birds.


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## kcirtap18 (Mar 27, 2005)

spirit wings said:


> I have been sold hens that were cock birds and cock birds that were hens many times. The thing is when you do get a pair you need to know how to pair them up so they do not get hurt. you would let them see each other through a divider, when they seem to be acting like a couple through the partitian, then they can be put together and watch the cock for bullying. good luck with your birds.


how long usually does it take before they become pair? and how will i know that the hen is really a cock or vice versa?


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

I don't normally come in posts so randomly but racing homing pigeons are crazy! 
Probably came about through widow hood style, breeding males that are filled with testosterone.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

kcirtap18 said:


> how long usually does it take before they become pair? and how will i know that the hen is really a cock or vice versa?


The cock will bow and coo and flutter his wings, the hen will look interested. buying a pair that have raised young together before would help in the guessing game and then you would not even have to pair any birds up. you would already have a true pair.


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