# seeds in poop



## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

My fantail hen (Isabella) and her mate have been sitting on (fake) eggs for about a week. Since the eggs, they have tended to hold their droppings until I let them out of their cage for exercise, which produces some rather large, foul smelling droppings. (I expected that might happen, from reading all of the "poop threads" on this board.)

Anyway - just this morning, Isabella let loose with some very large, very watery droppings that had large quantities of undigested seeds in them. I keep grit in the cage at all times for them, but I don't notice if they take it or not. These poops were scary though - mostly fluid and about a teaspoon or two of whole seeds...I am concerned that she's not getting enough nutrients. 

I looked at the board & other pigeon illness resources, but didn't see any references or pictures of this type of poop issue...can anyone provide insight? I'm very worried...I have some "game bird crumbles" that I've just put in her cage because I'm hoping she'll eat some and get at least a little nutrition.
(her mate's poops are large but normal, btw...)


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Karen,

I know seed in the poop is a concern, and I would take the bird to an avian vet if it continues. Are the seeds just the big seeds in her poop or all the various grains?

It might help to offer some good kefir or probiotics if you haven't given any.

http://www.birdsnways.com/articles/efmar1.htm


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## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

Trees Gray said:


> I know seed in the poop is a concern, and I would take the bird to an avian vet if it continues. Are the seeds just the big seeds in her poop or all the various grains?
> 
> It might help to offer some good kefir or probiotics if you haven't given any.


Hi Treesa,
Thanks for your quick response!
No change in the diet - until just now when I added some of the crumbles because I thought they'd be more digestible. 

Would yogurt be a good idea? I am not sure where to get kefir or probiotics.


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## Guest (Apr 1, 2007)

Karen,
This will probably not go away on its own. You really need to get your bird over to a vet because tests have to be taken.
Diabetes, circovirus and pancreatitis are all possible reasons why she's passing whole seeds.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi amoonswirl,

Passing undigested food can be caused by different issues, but being that you
have a hen w/the issue and thinking of the stress of egg laying, I'd think of coccidiosis, canker or worms as a possibility. There are other possibilities, however. The best thing would be to get a fecal because then you have a base line to go from for the future. If there's somewhere that you can drop a sample off this would be great. Then you can begin a 'rule-out'
process for your bird(s).

Do you keep meds on hand and/or do any routine treatments for canker, coccidiosis or worms? This is something that you might want to consider having
on hand in addition to a couple of antibiotics that target different bacterias.

fp


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

amoonswirl said:


> Hi Treesa,
> Thanks for your quick response!
> No change in the diet - until just now when I added some of the crumbles because I thought they'd be more digestible.
> 
> Would yogurt be a good idea? I am not sure where to get kefir or probiotics.


Hi Karen,

Yes, an organic plain yoghurt, or probiotics will do. This is also an aid in pancreatitis. Do you have a Trader Joes'? or Whole Foods store near you?

Keep the fats at 2 percent of her diet, that means only a tiny bit of sunflower or safflowewr seeds.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

pigeonperson said:


> Karen,
> This will probably not go away on its own. You really need to get your bird over to a vet because tests have to be taken.
> Diabetes, circovirus and pancreatitis are all possible reasons why she's passing whole seeds.


Not to be an alarmist, but to this list add: 


foreign body
bacterial enteritis
hepatitis
and more.....

This is why it would be good to start a rule out plan for the different possibilities. But by all means, follow some good nutritional regimines 
in the meantime. This will help her until you have a better understanding
of why she is passing so many undigested seeds.

fp


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

One very common cause of seeds in the poop is the so-called "hardware disease", when a pigeon swallows a nail or a staple which gets stuck in the gizzard. Could Isabella have had access to nails or staples?

I think that this is one of those situations where it is important to consult an avian vet early.

Cynthia


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi amoonswirl,


I do not think the issue will resolve on offering what may seem to be more easily 'digested' foods...

Rather, I would suspect some infection or bacteria which is effecting her Gizzard and Stomach and digestive process.

I do not know which bacteria or other organiams would be imagined to do this, but possibly, the long time holding poops which brooding occasions, have allowed what otherwise are normal flaura and fauna of her digestive system, to migrate 'up' and to be effecting the organs preceeding the Intestinal digestion as such, as well as effecting Intestinal digestion itself.

If you have recourse to an experienced Avian Vet, I also feel you should take her to them, and bring some freshest poops also for testing.

If you have no such recourse, If it were me, I would...

Check for Canker, and check for any signs of chalky 'yellow' in her poops or in the liquid which might accompany them.

Check her Crop for any suggestion of sodden-ness, gas or 'air' or puffyness in it...see if it 'feels' right or feels not-right...

Provide ACV-Water to the tune of three tablespoons of raw Apple Cider Vinegar to a Gallon of Water, for her and her mate for their exclusive drinking Water for the next week or ten days.

Feed small whole Seeds only, with or without small 'crumbles', and keep an eye on the poops...

M-a-y-b-e, just go ahead and treat for Canker with Metronidazole particularly, if you have any or can get some promptly...this medicine will also help with various other possible troubles she may be having, as well as that it is used for Canker issues.

Coccidiosis might be the culprit here, I am not very experienced with it to have a more clear understanding...but it is worth considering anyway.


Thats about all I can think of..!

The few times I have seen Seeds-in-the-poops, these above mentioned regimins were what I recall to have done, and so far as I recall, things cleared up fine...possibly includeing that I treated for Coccidiosis, which is a sucession of treatments staged over some weeks.

You could do some googles or other reading to brush up on Chlamydia, to see if it seems a probable culprit for this situation...and I can not remember off hand if it may. That is definitely one of those illnesses I would like to know more about.


Good luck..!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi amoonswirl,

Here's a link to some avian vets in Massachusetts and other places as well.
You'll have to scroll down to get to Massachusetts. Hopefully one is nearby 
you or you already have an established rapport w/one.

http://www.aav.org/activemembers.html#m

fp


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## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

Hi all,
I wouldn't say that I've got a "rapport" with an avian vet here. After asking all of the local folks I know of who have doves/pigeons for a recommendation and not really getting anywhere, I ended up taking my doves to an avian specialist who is part of the group where I take my cats.

She was very pleasant, but did not seem to have much knowledge of doves/pigeons whatsoever. In fact, she suggested to me that my silky dove might have a nutritional deficit because he has "poor feather condition." When I explained the concept of silky, she seemed puzzled and said "Oh, ok I think I've heard of that...in albinos, right?" And for what she charged...well, let's just say I would have expected more expert advice.

Isabella has recently been treated with a "3 in one" for worms, canker, and coccidiosis that I ordered from a pigeon supply site. She's got no access to have swallowed hardware - at least not since she's been in my care.

Anyway - if Isabella still has the symptoms tomorrow I will have no choice but to take her somewhere for evaluation. Thanks for the list...a few of those are not too far from here. In the mean time I will try to track down some probiotics. The only "meds" I have on hand are the 3 in one, ACV, and garlic.

Trees - the seeds are just the larger ones. A safflower or two, and mostly the rounded, orange-brown seeds and round, yellowish ones that make up part of the mix I feed her.

Thanks everyone for your advice & support...will let you know what happens.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

cyro51 said:


> One very common cause of seeds in the poop is the so-called "hardware disease", when a pigeon swallows a nail or a staple which gets stuck in the gizzard. Could Isabella have had access to nails or staples?
> 
> I think that this is one of those situations where it is important to consult an avian vet early.
> 
> Cynthia



Hi Cynthia, 


Good call...yes, definitely.

It kept nagging me that I knew there was another classis cause for this...and you have reminded us all about it..!


If the Gizzard is not grinding their post-stomach Seeds, the question more or less is 'what' is having this effect on the Gizzard?

Sometimes the horny plates of the Gizzard are liable to disintegration or softening or muscular stasis from disease process, possibly vitamine deficiency, or, as you mention, some foreign or metallic object which is trapped in the Gizzard.

Something like a Carpet Tack or small bit of Wire or Staple can make for serious problems if it gets lodged there. 


Phil
Las Vegas


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Your welcome for the list and thanks for reading 'fun-etiquettely'.  

fp


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

A few years ago, we had a robin that needed to stay over a bit longer than usual. She began passing undigested mealworms and the vet said she had a bacterial infection and to put her on Bactrim. That took care of the problem.

I don't know if the same principle would apply to seed as it did mealworms.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Lady Tarheel said:


> A few years ago, we had a robin that needed to stay over a bit longer than usual. She began passing undigested mealworms and the vet said she had a bacterial infection and to put her on Bactrim. That took care of the problem.
> 
> I don't know if the same principle would apply to seed as it did mealworms.


Maggie, this is one of the listed problems for this symptom, that is, bacterial enteritis, so yes it could be an issue. The field of causes is wide and needs narrowing down.

fp


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## Guest (Apr 1, 2007)

Think of one seed traveling down. First it goes into the crop where at the most, it's softened in anticipation of the food being sent to the proventriculus (true stomach)actually starting the digestive process. That's where real digestion takes place, when enzymes sent there from other organs like the pancreas are working to chemically break down the pieces of food. This mass is then sent into the gizzard which grinds down the mass so the small intestines will be able to digest it further. That's where the liver comes into play too. Bile is sent into the small intestines to break down fat into usable form.

If something foreign gets caught in the gizzard, that organ can't grind the food down so that seed will continue to travel to the small intestine still whole. The enzymes in there have not been able to work on the unbroken seed so it sends it into the small intestine and then the large intestine where it is ejected then out but still in a whole condition.

The problem of anything that causes a whole seed to come out undigested has to be in the gizzard or the proventriculus. If it isn't the gizzard, then there is something wrong with the true stomach. It could be a disease of that organ or it could be that enzymes from the pancreas are not being sent there because there is something wrong with that organ. 

A vet has the ability to take tests in order to tell how the various organs are doing. If certain enzyme levels are too high or too low in the blood, the vet can be able to hone in on what organ is doing something wrong. An X-Ray could rule out a number of things. A high white cell count would tell a vet that there is either an infection or swelling somewhere. The vet has to to put all this evidence together and try to come to some sort of conclusion about what is happening inside the bird. (No wonder they are very costly).

I think that all we can deduce from the symptom of passing whole seed is that whatever is wrong, is coming from something higher up than the intestines. The most we could rule out without tests, is an infection by giving antibiotics. Some of you are mentioning the possibility of worms, coccidia and a bacterial enteritis but I can't see how that would affect an already undigested seed that far down in the digestive system. Anyway, that's the way I analyze the passing of a whole seed.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

amoonswirl said:


> Trees - the seeds are just the larger ones. A safflower or two, and mostly the rounded, orange-brown seeds and round, yellowish ones that make up part of the mix I feed her.


For now, I would give her only the small seed as it is easier for her to digest and less stress on the digestive system.

Give her a garlic capsule, and a drop of colloidal silver for infection, and do consult an avian vet.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Pigeronperson, all...


Actually, while counter to our intuition or expectation, the Stomach - or Proventriculus - of the Pigeon occurs before the Gizzard - or Ventriculus.


I myself have postualted possible stasis of the actions of the Gizzard, on the basis of infections of bacteria, Canker, Candida Yeasts or maybe even Chlamydia or other to me 'exotic' complaints, either from the Crop, or, from the intestines.

At least in instances where normal regular bowell evacuations have been forsaken for prolongued Nesting or Brooding, we have 'that' as something to suggest a reason for imbalance...or, where Candida or Yeast infestations/infections may have occurred secondarily from something interfereing with the otherwise normal background levels and balances of these erstwhile symbiotes.

I have not had very many instances of seeing whole Seeds passing with my recovering ill or injured feral Pigeon guests/patients...but I have seen it a few times, and I recall these instances to have cleared up with what were most likely the 'usual' regimens I employ for most ambiguous presentations or for suspected or definite Candida or other problems - ACV-Water, Metronidazole, Warmth, Tube feeds of thin formula instead of Seeds if not Candida, or if suspected Candida or Yeast problems, then fasting for three or four days, and then small Whole Seeds if they will eat, and tube feeds if they will not.


So, as for my own experience, I do not have much to go on other than my speculations and appearent luck with various simple regimens.

I have had no instances that I know of where I had reason to suspect a foreign object or metallic inclusion in the Gizzard....even if I have had some instances of foreign objects making problems in the Crop.

Truely, if one has access to an able and experienced and 'technically' astute Avian Vet, it would be a God send.


Oooopse,. someone at the door...

Love, 

Phil
Las Vegas


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Interesting posts Phil and pigeonperson, thank you both. I think some may make mention of these other issues as they have had a personal experience to
that end or that they may even have an avian medical book or two around the house or even perhaps both. In my situation, it was both personal experience
and medical books that specifically have mentioned the issues I raised and is being affirmed by some other folks rehabbing experience as well.

fp


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## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

*update and a question*

This morning Isabella is no longer passing whole seeds. However, her droppings are still not normal. There's a lot of excess fluid, and the solid part is a blackish green and quite small. The odor is somewhat like rotten eggs. 

Question:
How can I tell if there might be a yeast problem?


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

amoonswirl said:


> This morning Isabella is no longer passing whole seeds. However, her droppings are still not normal. There's a lot of excess fluid, and the solid part is a blackish green and quite small. The odor is somewhat like rotten eggs.
> 
> Question:
> How can I tell if there might be a yeast problem?


For starters, you could open Isabella's mouth and take a look inside. See if you
see any abnormal growths in there. Make sure you don't just look down at
the tongue and lower mandible but also up at the upper roof of the mouth.
Also, smell the breath for any unusual odors.

For a microscopic ID on the organism, they can take a dropping sample and look for budding yeast. 

What you could do is make a batch of ACV water--I'd go 3 TBLS per gallon
and give this as Isabella's only source of water. ACV is a good way to help
w/candida issues, although if this is what it is, I'd want to treat w/Nystatin
if it were my bird to be sure. Although, you could have before and after fecals.

fp


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## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

feralpigeon said:


> For starters, you could open Isabella's mouth and take a look inside. See if you
> see any abnormal growths in there. Make sure you don't just look down at
> the tongue and lower mandible but also up at the upper roof of the mouth.
> Also, smell the breath for any unusual odors...
> fp


Thanks fp!
I looked yesterday for growths in the mouth, but didn't see anything. I'll check again later today & make sure to examine the roof of her mouth. I didn't notice any breath odor - but I wasn't sniffing for it either.

I started her on ACV water last night. And small seeds + crumbles. Tried some yogurt but she would not eat it. (Should I tube feed?)

I'll see if the vet would do a fecal, but I am pretty sure she'll insist I bring in the bird as well. I don't want to subject Isabella to any more stress right now unless I absolutely have to...she doesn't like to be where she can't see her eggs. (Plus I honestly don't trust this vet's diagnosis skills for pigeons- I think she deals mainly with hookbills...)


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

amoonswirl said:


> Thanks fp!
> I looked yesterday for growths in the mouth, but didn't see anything. I'll check again later today & make sure to examine the roof of her mouth. I didn't notice any breath odor - but I wasn't sniffing for it either.
> 
> I started her on ACV water last night. And small seeds + crumbles. Tried some yogurt but she would not eat it. (Should I tube feed?)
> ...


Interesting that you started Isabella on ACV last p.m. and there is a concurrent change in droppings, could be coincidence, but maybe not.

Good that she deals w/birds at all, but I understand your concerns. I've never tubed Yogurt, just given the capsules which had dramatic effects.
Yes, you could tube the Yogurt if you feel confident in performing this procedure. Otherwise you could go for the capsules instead.

Nystatin is what's used for Candida, and you could do a combo of Nystatin and Bactrim which would deal simultaneously w/yeast, problematic anaerobic bacteria and coccidiosis. You can get both from Jedd's.

I'm glad to hear that Isabella has shown improvement in such a short time.

fp


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## Guest (Apr 2, 2007)

Phil,
Thanks for correcting me. You're right. The proventricular stomach comes before the gizzard. I'm going to edit my post to reflect the correct information.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

amoonswirl,

Another thought, in addition to having an on-going supportive care regimine
and natural products to help you fine tune and keep their systems in balance,
you should consider, overtime as funds permit,getting certain medications on hand to have for these routine scenarios.

Most folks have medications that cover the known devils,that is, Trichomoniasis (canker), Coccidiosis, Candida (Thrush), Worms and a couple of broad spectrum antibiotics that will deal well w/anaerobic or aerobic bacteria. And, having a couple each of the parasitical medications in order to rotate them is really a good idea. Something to keep in mind especially in a situation where there is a shortage locally of knowledgable avian vets. Also, laying hens are constantly under stress and may have more flareups w/the known health issues for pigeons. Overtime, you'll become familiar w/the ups and downs healthwise that are cyclical and you can treat for these as needed, jmo.

fp


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## Hamza (Dec 28, 2006)

Sorryfor late post but the same happened to my hen after laying an egg.. The seeds were partly digested.. I gave her some grit, soluble vitamins and ACV and she was fine..

AND do be prepared to get a few watery poops once a month or so..
It can be due to stress of eggs.. or disturbance like unneccesary picking up, cleaning cage, trying to pet/touch etc..

DOnt worry, she'll be fine..

My egg is to hatch this week or next week's monday.. IM SOOO excited..
I'm ex[ecting eggs from my LAHORes this week..


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

amoonswirl,

When dosing w/a medicinal level of ACV, you should probably keep an eye on your birds water consumption just to make sure that she is drinking enough water and hasn't been deterred from normal water consumption because of taste. Just wanted to add this reminder here.

Here's a link to a site that is pretty useful especially in terms of physiological needs of pigeons, food and water included, in addition to alot of other useful information on health issues. 

http://pwp.netcabo.pt/cm.fonseca/pombos/diseases.htm#PIOLHOS-%20ACAROS-DIPTEROS-CARRA%C7AS

The only update to the site that I would make would be in the wormer section, both Mebendazole and Albendazole are not recommended as wormers for pigeons.

fp


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## Guest (Apr 2, 2007)

I'm wondering if a yeast infection could also be a culprit behind this. After all, if it can freeze a crop, it could do the same thing to anywhere else along the entire line. Don't forget there is an odor to the droppings and that could point to a yeast or bacterial infection.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

amoonswirl said:


> This morning Isabella is no longer passing whole seeds. However, her droppings are still not normal. There's a lot of excess fluid, and the solid part is a blackish green and quite small. The odor is somewhat like rotten eggs.
> 
> Question:
> How can I tell if there might be a yeast problem?




...I would guess a Liver problem...is at least some of what is afoot...

Some Virus kinds can infect the Liver and intefere with normal digestions because of it, making for Sulphur type smells...as can some intestinal anaerobes possibly.

And there is something else I can not remember just now, which has to do with that kind of smell...


What has she been eating, all tolled?


If she will eat fresh finely minced Greens, such as Collard Greens or Mustard Greens, I think they would be good for her right now...as would some fresh minced raw Garlic.

As would being on the ACV-Wate for a week or ten-day...


Less protean, less ( Seeds which contain inordinate ) Fats ( which the Safflower Seeds do, so, I'd say for now, no more 'fat' Seeds...) 

...more ruffage and more "Greens"...and nice Granite Grit...( instead of Oyster ) 

Does she get occasional out-door direct Sunshine? If not, please consider for her to be able to.


These come to mind as for what I would do anyway...


Best wishes..!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

Hi again!

Hamza - many thanks for the encouragement! I am happy to report that Isabella does seem to be doing better even than she was this morning. More normal looking solids and higher solid:watery ratio as well. 
Congrats on your eggs too! Can't wait to hear about the babies!!

fp - she does not seem to be deterred by the taste of the ACV. Nor does her mate. Many thanks for the helpful resources! (The only thing that has stopped me from putting together a meds kit is that the supply houses sell things in such huge quantities and I only have a few birds. Hate to buy all of that and risk having it expire...but I guess I should just do it.)

Phil - Isabella and her mate have been eating a commercial dove mix, with a portion of extruded pellets mixed in (~10%) and roughly 3-5% safflower and sunflower mixed in as well. I will cut back on the fats. Also - I have not offered greens in awhile but will do so tomorrow. Along with some garlic in case she'll take it. I have plenty of that! Thank you for the advice!


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

pigeonperson said:


> Phil,
> Thanks for correcting me. You're right. The proventricular stomach comes before the gizzard. I'm going to edit my post to reflect the correct information.



Hi pp,


Threw me for a loop when I found out...!


I took for granted the Seeds would be 'ground' before the Stomach, and not after...


Phil
Las Vegas


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

amoonswirl said:


> Hi again!
> 
> 
> Phil - Isabella and her mate have been eating a commercial dove mix, with a portion of extruded pellets mixed in (~10%) and roughly 3-5% safflower and sunflower mixed in as well. I will cut back on the fats. Also - I have not offered greens in awhile but will do so tomorrow. Along with some garlic in case she'll take it. I have plenty of that! Thank you for the advice!




Hi amoonswirl,


Just shooting from the hip here, but those various things are what I myself would do under these circumstances.


Next time you are at a decent Health Food Store, look for some "Udos" Pro-Biotics...little Brown Bottles, usually in the cooler...these are powders.

Too, same brand, little boxes of 'Digestive Enzymes' in Capsules...also powders...one opens a Capsule and sprinkles some out.

Good for orphan Babys, or adults who have been on antibiotics, or who otherwise show digestive problems.

Lightly 'glistening' their Seeds with some ( fresh, brabd new, just for them, small bottle of, kept refrigerated after opening, ) Olive Oil ( and NEVER the old bottle one may have on-the-shelf) allows these or other 'powders' to be introduced so they will eat them along with their Seeds.

These two powders are very good for re-establishing a healthy flore-fauna situation for their digestions.

The ACV-Water in it's way also accomplishes a lot of good, discouraging undesirable bacterias and other micro-organisms, while encouraging the desirable ones.

Generally 'tap-water' ( the 'hot' especially) should be avoided...or, the 'Cold' ( when let run for a minute or two first, ) can be boiled first...when providing drinking Water or formula mixing Water for any ill, or margainal, weak or immuno-compromised Bird.



Fresh 'Greens'...cut into tiny 'diamonds' with Scizzors...and or once they are used to that, one hold out full Leaves and lets them peck off little bites.


Good luck!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

pigeonperson said:


> I'm wondering if a yeast infection could also be a culprit behind this. After all, if it can freeze a crop, it could do the same thing to anywhere else along the entire line. Don't forget there is an odor to the droppings and that could point to a yeast or bacterial infection.


amoonswirl's pij may have a yeast infection, but I think if so it would be secondary to whatever caused the seeds to be passed whole. I only say this as it is simply not listed as a cause in CAM while all of the other issues mentioned here are. 

Interestingly enough, when looking for causes for foul smelling poops, the
volumes discuss yeast as possibly giving an odiferous dropping and possibly not. So the odor isn't something to rely on when coming out the other end for a yeast infection.

fp


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## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

*update...*

Thanks to everyone who gave me advice!!
Just wanted to report that Isabella seems back to normal now.
I will keep her on the ACV water for a few more days, and the more digestible seeds...but I think we are out of the woods!

Again - your helpful responses were much appreciated. I was one worried pigeon-momma.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Sounds great, amoonswirl  . Hope over time that you are able
to have some of the main meds on hand, sure comes in handy 
sometimes.
BTW, ACV helps w/many different nuisance populations which can
get ugly when out of control in numbers. So this is a good thing to
use a couple of times a week in their water. For just maintenance
dosing, just drop back to 1-2 TBLS per gallon a couple of times a week.

fp


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi amoonswirl, 


...direct, out-door Sunshine now and then...and occasional fresh Greens...and some sort of good Granite type Grit, and now and then Oyster Shell Grit, too...

I'd keep on the ACV for 7 days all tolled...starting from whenever you started them on it...and then, as fp mentions, make it up for them occasionally at a lower concentration, just for general good measure and general goodness.

Glad to hear things have improved..!



Phil
Las Vegas


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## lucysangel (Oct 26, 2010)

*Also In The Same Boat*

=lucysangel Have Same Problem Of Not Gigesting Either But A Cat Had Gotten Ahold Of And I Thought It Just Pulled Out Tail Feathers But Now Food Is Coming Out Undigested To But It Wants To Eat And Looks Good Other Wise What Do You Think Cat Must Have Punchered And Or Torn Some Thing Internal


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

This thread is from 2007.

I am moving one of your posts to a new thread in the sick & injured section, or else it may well never get a reply.


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