# Opinions Wanted!



## learning (May 19, 2006)

O.K. guys I would like to get your opinions on these if you don't mind.

This is a perch design that I am toying with using in my new loft. I got the idea from the Million Euro Loft in China. I think it should make cleaning easier as all the poop comes forward instead of backward. One sweep with a scraper down each row, clean out the collection tray underneath the bottom row and your done. My hope is that it will limit the amount of poop that hits the floor.

It should also help keep the birds quiet as they can not see the birds next to them. Only one bird fits on each perch so my hope is that all of this will combine to reduce the amount of fighting and keep stress levels to a minimum. There will also be two perches for each bird so that should help as well.

Let me know what you think.

Dan

View attachment 6707


View attachment 6708


View attachment 6709


----------



## abisai (Jan 30, 2007)

Well you are right the poop can be scraped downward. I can't see how much room they have - birds like to crow and prance a little on their perch. Also it seems to me that their heads may be somewhat covered by that slanted partition where they cant see out too much or me see them - I like to look in the loft and see the whole bird not just the body. But, if with the true dimensions they have enough room to move, and the entire bird is visible - seems cool to me.


----------



## KO Loft (Jul 1, 2007)

Is it just me or would it be better if the top was on the bottom one instead to funnel the waste into one spot. The birds at the botom it would seem would be able to poop in a spot that upper birds would not. If the lip was underneath them the area would be shielded. In additon would certain perches be undesirable from birds point of view based upon loft design? Used to have a few nestboxes that it seemed were the ones chosen last. Much like real estate the key is location location location.

joe


----------



## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Take a look at these perches. I did this in my youngbird loft and have yet to scrape a perch. The birds don't seem to be getting pooped on either. They are also very siimple to build. I put two nails and a screw in each one. used a 1x4 and some scrap 2x4s. Here is a link to get the skinny one them.
http://www.reunionracinglofts.us/reunion_racing_lofts_interior.htm

I agree with the perches being very easy to build and clean. I have box perches, v-perches etc and these are by far the easiest to clean. They work well as supplimental perches and in hen lofts and youngbirds lofts.

Randy


----------



## KO Loft (Jul 1, 2007)

Hill

I guess that is why people always tell me to remember K.I.S.S. (keep it simple stupid). That design looks simple yet functional.


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Well, you asked for an opinion...........here it is!!! LOL
I don't like them. Looks like the bird has a piece of wood that is about 3 inches long and 1 1/2 inches wide. Not comfortable for the bird. Will they use them? Of course they will. Will they complain? Nope........but..........they just don't look like something they would use if they had another choice. JMO.


----------



## learning (May 19, 2006)

You are right Renee, I did want your opinions and I appreciate you cander. I am going to put a link here that has a picture of the perches in the Million Euro loft. Do the differences between theirs and mine address any of your concerns? How much room does a pigeon need on a perch? I have seen many comercially available perches that have a similar surface area for the birds. Please understand, I am not trying to be defensive, I am just trying to make something that is going to be the best I can make it. Another big issue that plays into my particular circumstance is my bad back. I need to keep the scraping of the floor to a minimum. That is one reason I was drawn to this design. Of course, I don't want the birds to suffer for my bad back! 

I think one of your concerns was accessability to the pirch for the birds. My thoughts were, from the perspective of the floor to the perch, the slant of the top creates a square target to shoot for. After all, they will only be going from the floor to the perch or the perch to the floor. Just a thought.

Thanks again for your input.

Dan

Here is the picture:

http://www.crpic.org.cn/race/info/photoList2.asp


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

learning said:


> You are right Renee, I did want your opinions and I appreciate you cander. I am going to put a link here that has a picture of the perches in the Million Euro loft. Do the differences between theirs and mine address any of your concerns? How much room does a pigeon need on a perch? I have seen many comercially available perches that have a similar surface area for the birds. Please understand, I am not trying to be defensive, I am just trying to make something that is going to be the best I can make it. Another big issue that plays into my particular circumstance is my bad back. I need to keep the scraping of the floor to a minimum. That is one reason I was drawn to this design. Of course, I don't want the birds to suffer for my bad back!
> 
> I think one of your concerns was accessability to the pirch for the birds. My thoughts were, from the perspective of the floor to the perch, the slant of the top creates a square target to shoot for. After all, they will only be going from the floor to the perch or the perch to the floor. Just a thought.
> 
> ...


I can see from the pictures that the birds can access it easily. My only concern is the perching part. I wish someone else would chime in here and tell me if I'm just being plain stupid over the birds.  I've been told by more than one person to my face AND behind my back, that I baby my birds too much. Maybe I do. I say, so what??  
Here's a picture of one of my birds relaxing on a perch after a bath one day last year. Does he look comfortable or what?  

With my perches, yes I have to scrape the floor. Very few perches get actuall poop on them. Maybe three or four every morning. 
It's your decision of course. I'm just throwing my two cents worth in. It usually gets me in trouble though.


----------



## learning (May 19, 2006)

KO,

I guess I need to explain a bit. The bottom row of perches on any given wall will have a tray underneath it that will extend out to catch not only the poop from the bottom row but also the "run off" from the rows above. The intent being that virtually nothing hits the floor, from the perches at least. Of course there would be the feces from when they fly down to eat, etc. but the vast majority of the pooping occurs while on the pearch. I just feel that this would be one way to help keep the loft much cleaner with much less effort and keep the birds from walking or standing in it.

Of course, I could be dead wrong!

Dan


----------



## learning (May 19, 2006)

Renee,

I thought about this last night and I was wondering if I might be able to address your primary concern. It appears in the picture you have that the bird is perched on a surface roughly 3" X 4". If I simply replaced the perching surface with a 1" X 4" cut about 4" long that would provide essentialy the same thing would it not? That would certainly be an easy adaptation to make also.

Thanks,

Dan


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Dan,

I have to say, these perches are quite different from the norm. 

I don't like the idea of the birds not being able to see each other, after all pigeons are very social creatures, and enjoy each other's company and contact. They should enjoy their living quarters, as much as they enjoy the outside world.

You will have an occasional fight now and then, that is normal, but this just doesn't seem normal. If your birds don't suffer from overcrowding, fighting isn't really an issue. The poop scraping is an issue for everyone, but to me it isn't that much work using just a regular perch. Also, I like to be able to know who did which poop, in case one doesn't look so hot, I want to know which bird to isolate, or at least have an idea of where this bird sat, from the possible poop underneath it.


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

learning said:


> Renee,
> 
> I thought about this last night and I was wondering if I might be able to address your primary concern. It appears in the picture you have that the bird is perched on a surface roughly 3" X 4". If I simply replaced the perching surface with a 1" X 4" cut about 4" long that would provide essentialy the same thing would it not? That would certainly be an easy adaptation to make also.
> 
> ...


That's what it is.......a 2 X 4 cut into I think 6" pieces. I thought about modifiying the perches you're looking at but then I thought, what an expense and a lot of extra work to buy something like those perches and then have to modify them, so I didn't say anything. Unless you are building them yourself?? Then of course you could make them any way you want to.  
I may have another question.........have to go look at the picture again.....


----------



## learning (May 19, 2006)

Just for clarity sake, I am making these from scratch. I am not buying them from an outside source. This is why I am asking for opinions so I can modify the prototypes you see in the picture. The two modifications I am diffinitely going to make are 1) Cutting about 3" off the back so they hang closer to the wall and don't stick out so far and 2) Increase the actual perch area as discussed earlier in this thread. I really do feel that there are significant issues that this design addresses that are favorable to my needs. No question, there are modifications that need to be made to these first attempts, but I do think I am on the right track for me, certainly not everyone, but for me.

Hope that is a little clearer for folks.

Dan

P.S. And I really do appreciate all of your concerns and issues. That is how I can make these the best I can. Thanks


----------



## Pigeon lower (Oct 23, 2007)

And i hope you know not all the poo will run off it


----------



## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

I am so glad your are researching to determine the best design for you and your birds. 

Renee, I totally agree with you. Pigeons are most comfortable when they can "perch" with their feet flat and have room to lay their body down on a solid surface. They don't have the strong perching feet of song birds and raptors. A pigeon on a smaller perch wouldn't get as good rest, so his immune system would be always slightly stressed. I'd recommend going with the larger perch (Randy's look comfy, and Renee's bird looks very relaxed!) for the best health for your birds.



Trees Gray said:


> ...pigeons are very social creatures, and enjoy each other's company and contact...


Plus they're incredibly nosey and love to see what their neighbors are doing!



Trees Gray said:


> ...I like to be able to know who did which poop, in case one doesn't look so hot, I want to know which bird to isolate, or at least have an idea of where this bird sat, from the possible poop underneath it.


I have found this to be so helpful in spotting a problem while it's still small.

Okay, now I have CRF (Coop Remodel Fever).


----------



## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

Renee don't the birds poop on the ones below it? This is the reason I built v perches.


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Hello Dan,

Did you ever finally sort out the perch thing ? I personally don't think the "Perfect" perch has been invented yet. And when it comes right down to it, it should be what you like. We are always looking at new designs and ideas, I think the best came right out of our heads. We own perches and boxes imported from Europe, but I like our current prototype, which are rows of nest boxes with the door that doubles as a perch when open. A pigeon wants to fly home fast for his perch and nest box, even in YB's.... ...but that is me......


----------



## learning (May 19, 2006)

Warren,

I have been side tracked over the last several weeks with school starting up again. After mounting them and looking at them, I think I am going to go with the same basic design but I am going to cut 3 inches off the back so it sits closer to the wall. That was all wasted space in the original. I am also going to make the actual perch the birds stand on larger. I have had several people from my club look at them and they all think that it is a waste of time and space. While I certainly value their opinions, I have my reasons for going with this design. 

I built my loft to house a certain number of birds and no more. I want to do everything in my power to avoid the overcrowding issues that I see are so prevalent in so many lofts. I want to reduce as much stress in the loft as possible. Because these take up more room than most perches it should prevent me from throwing more birds in a section than should be there. I want them fighting in the air to come home to a perch and a loft they love, not do all their fighting in the loft because they are on top of each other. These should also make cleaning much faster and easier. My goal is to be able to clean the entire loft in 10 minutes. These should go a long way towards reaching that goal. If these become more trouble than they are worth then I can certainly go with something else. Since they are mounted with hooks and eyes they are easily removed for cleaning behind them or replacement if necessary. 

Like everything else associated with this project, I have tried to think it through and right now these seem to fit my needs. If problems come up I can always make adjustments. I guess time will tell in the long run what will work and what won't, but until such time arives I am going to go with these.

Thanks,

Dan


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

ohiogsp said:


> Renee don't the birds poop on the ones below it? This is the reason I built v perches.


How did I mess this question???
No, the birds below do not get pooped on. When pigeons poop, they sort of "throw" it out a ways from the perch. Not sure how the manage that?? LOL
The only birds that I have that get pooped on are the hens that insist on nesting in the corner, under the perches.........


----------



## Guest (Aug 10, 2007)

I have that same problem  you can always tell a corner nester in my loft by its tail lol just cant seem to keep some birds from doing what they want to


----------



## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

OK, I see now it just takes someone to say it.


----------

