# Found a juvy!



## badbird (Aug 15, 2005)

I found a young bird! Pics coming soon. 

The bird, although it can't fly, can certainly flap its wings and 'float' around if it gets into the air so I think it may have 'floated' on down from somewhere. I couldn't find from where.

Its legs, body, and wings look quite well. However since its still youthful it could not just simply fly away back to whence it came. I was afraid this bird would be maimed so I decided to bring it back home with me. The bird was in a doorway on the ground area and it was after midnight. I figure some crazy drunk kids or a cat could come by at some point. Not good for a bird that can only trot around flapping its wings.

I'm no stranger to pigeons; I had a pet pigeon for a year at one point so I'm not really a newbie with birds. This bird I found today, its your average gray street bird. It appears to be fully grown as well because its the same size as the other dime a dozen birds. All the same feathers are there too. Tail, wing, head, breast, flight, and many of those multi colored neck feathers. However what gives away the fact that its young is that it peeps and squeaks still, and the beak does not have a cere yet. The bill its still pink. 

The eyes are brownish bordering on dark orange. The bird DOES have hints of the yellow down here and there under its normal 'adult' feathers. Based on some pics I HAVE seen, of other babies, this bird is definitely over 20 days old. Just small amounts of prickles of down here or there and again it has flight feathers. The bird seems like it could fly. He is very very feisty and active! It tried to get away from me in my home and it could flap its wings rapidly and get about 1 to 2 feet off the ground albeit briefly, and would flutter about. It does fail to 'fly' however so its still learing that part. After a short while i could cautiously/slowly approach it and using slow hand movements i could pet it/rub its head and it seemed to like the petting.

I don't have the cage anymore from my first pet pigeon though but I have towel put down and I put a laundry basket over it which makes a great temporary 'cage.' The bird is being kept warm. 

The poops are frequent and look quite healthy indeed. Now that I have described the situation and what the bird looks like:

 My questions are:
Should I coax it to eat seed? Or will it eat on its own when hungry?

I could put it in a small bird food cup I still have or sprinkle some on the towel. I could try 'pecking' with my finger as an example. I could also try this with water and dab some water on its beak and show it the water cup. It hasn't taken to the small amount of seed and water I tried with it at first.

I have an unopened bag of Kaytee pigeon food and I put some in the make-shift cage. I think the bird is a bit too old for medicine drop feeding.

At this time the bird wants no part of me although its not freaking out like it did at first since it realizes I'm not hurting him. Since he's still getting acclimated to the surroundings its not wanting to eat or drink. I'll see if it eats anything over night and I'll check the website to see what I should do next. Since its been pooping healthily it appears it has gotten nourishment in the past 24 hours in some way.

I am willing to care for this young bird to get it healthy and able to fly. I also wouldn't mind keeping it as a pet if it gets used to me- or I could "release it." I would like a pet though... I don't have any. What do you think?

Any help would be phenomenal. Thanks!

I tell ya its my lucky day. Right before I found this buddy I found a dollar bill on the sidewalk! LOL!


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

You need to keep a careful watch and be very sure that the young pigeon is eating seeds and drinking water. You can also gently feel the crop area. If you feel seeds and/or fluid in there, then it is getting at least some food and water on its own. If it is not eating and drinking on its own, then you will have to feed it either the Kaytee Exact by syringe or perhaps soak some high quality dry dog or cat food in water until it is soft and puffy and feed small pieces of that to the bird. I may have misunderstood your post about having some Kaytee Exact in the cage .. did you mix it into liquid and put it in a bowl or put the dry powder in the cage? If you provided liquid, there is a small chance the youngster would "drink" some of it, but I don't think there is any chance it would or could eat the dry powder.

Good luck with the little one, and please keep us posted.

Terry


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## arbalist (May 6, 2007)

I'm in the same position, a juvenile Wood pigeon fell out of a tree in our garden. Flaps and walks ok but seems unable to fly. Mines been pooping ok but not seen him drink yet and he's only had a peck our two at some seed. I've kept him indoors at night in a cage and outdoors in a hutch during the day. From some pictures I've seen on the net I reckon he is at least 40 days old but could be older. How old does he need to be before he can fly? I don't want to have to chase him round the garden again and if I let him go too early he'll probably be attacked by magpies or a fox will get him. Any help appreciated. This is the second bird I've found and the last one at around 20 days old (cute little thing) was passed to an experienced rearer. Seems like this may become a common experience so I've excepted I need to get some training to properly help any more young pigeons that need help.

Vic.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Badbird,

You might try filling a small pot or cup with the water, then gently push the pigeon's head down so tha the water comes halfway up his beak (to avoid the nostrils). The normal pigeon reaction, if thirsty, would be to suck up water. If he shows an interest he will then know where to find it when he needs it.

Vic,

Woodpigeons normally fledge around 42 days, but they take a while to develop the full coloring around the neck.

If he keeps on pooping decent solid poops, then he will be taking his food, I'd think.

Any signs of injury?

We have some woodpigeons along with our feral & dove rescues. Two of them were young when their rescuer found them, and have become very human friendly. Another accepts us, but is not quite so friendly - he has only one eye, so cannot be released. Three others were found as adults and are unable to fly. 

John


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi badbird, Vic,



For both of your situations...


If you can work with these Birds and not have them being too afraid, you can get them to eat.

Move slowly, keep your eyes low, and talk gently and in positive tones.

So far, quite possibly, they have never eaten on their own but have only known the experience of being fed by their parents.


So, if you want...try this -


Set the Bird someplace convenient and safe, and keeping your hands at all times 'low', below the Bird's eye level...and your eyes mostly low also...


Have some Warm water in a glass, and dip your finger tips of one hand into it, and then, from low, gently maddage the Beak or corner of his mouth areas of the Beak with your moist warm fingertips.


When you do this, also make a low slowish sort of "oooooOOOooo!" sound, like saying "MMmmmm!" when something tastes good, but with your mouth only a little open, so it will come out "oooOOOooo!

The idea is to somehow let the Bird know you are willing and interested to feed him....and his parents would have made a similar sound when calling him to come be fed.

And, in this, to get him to 'nuzzle' and to ask you TO feed him.


Even if he already nuzzles ( ie, probes your Hand with his Beak ) still do the moist finger tip massage thing, and the "ooooOOooo' thing also.


If you can get him nuzzleing then, and accepting your finger tips 'there' on his Beak, then...


Get a small Glass, a Shot Glass will do, and fill it full to the brim with small whole Seeds. Canary Seeds, Finch Seeds or the likes are perfect.


Then, with the little glass on one hand, with your other, repeat the moist finger tip massage, do the 'ooooOOoooo!', and when he nuzzles, gently guide his Beak into the Shot Glass, held about his chest level or so, so the Seeds do not spill out, and keep your finger tips on his Beak the whole time without taking them off.


If done right, he will 'gobble' and be eating Seeds, with his Beak immersed in them, as you keep your finger tips on the sides and back area of his Beak.


Same thing for having him Drink, only of course, one offers Water in a Tea Cup or small Glass...and the Water must be 'tepid', and should be close to body temperature, or he will likely NOT drink no matter what you do.


If you and they can do 'this'...then in minutes, or after a few more rounds of it, the young Pigeon will start pecking...so, when you do this, afterward, make sure to provide some Seeds for him to pack.



Lastly, since Trichomoiasis or Canker variously can see them get seperated from their parents in various ways, let us know the color and consistancy of their poops.


Keeping them on a white towell, helps the neophyte peck the Seeds, and also helps you see and count the poops better, too.



Good luck..!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hi Badbird - it's nice to hear from you again.

About the only thing I can add for both you and Vic is to weigh the pigeons pretty frequently and pay close attention to the poops.

Badbird, when we get in one about the size you describe, we do try to get them to eat on their own but usually supplement with Kaytee until they get the hang of eating seed. We have always hand fed any young pigeon that still squeals.


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## badbird (Aug 15, 2005)

good news. i'll post more later but while I stepped out the bird found the water and got into the seeds. The seeds are mess and everywhere so he knows that they are. It appears some have been eaten as not is much is there anymore. The water was discovered to as it the cup is half full now. I'm going to refill it so it can get proper suction. The cup was not spilled as its heavy ceramic so I know it wasn't tipped. This is great that it has discovered these things. It seems to be doing fine. I'll work on some pics.

the droppings are off-black in color. Some are those little curly Q varieties with white mixed in and some look like a dirty raisin with a white dollop on it. it's produced some more since last nite so it seems to be doing alright thus far.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hey Badbird, nice to hear from you and see you posting again. As mentioned, 
just keep a close eye and monitor by weighing, gonna be hard to measure food
intake by what you put if enthusiastically emptying the seed bowl w/its' beak.

Pics of the bird and the droppings would be great....and even if you do need
to release this one, you know there are plenty of birds in need of homes,
I'm sure you would find yourself a pet here in short time.

Good luck and look forward to the pics.

fp


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## badbird (Aug 15, 2005)




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## badbird (Aug 15, 2005)

*first 24 hours*

although it has been drinking water I think it needs to eat more.

earlier when I mentioned the Kaytee I have the Kaytee pigeon bird seed, to clarify. sorry its not the stuff you mix up for a dropper.

I tried massaging its beak with warm water and it openeds mouth briefly and I put a seed at the tip of its bill and it nibbled it up. I pretended my finger was a beak pecking at seeds to continue to push the idea for self feeding. I also put him up to the water to remind him and he guzzled some down. Water? check. Food.......sort of.

Any recommendations for him to eat more? Maybe he's not hungry yet. He could have eaten a bunch while I went to the store but the crop is maybe only half full. There's an occassional poop but not nearly what I know pigeons usually make.

He is very very feisty. He actually got away from me today and actually briefly flew to reach the top of a table. Once he settles down he is okay. However when I first start to try to feed him or hold him he tries to get away very agressively. He does calm down after some petting and a beak massage with moist water. I also make the coo coo noises similar to what a parent makes and BOY does that get his attention.

He cranes his neck looking around and bobs his head up in down and starts to squeak. Thats when I go to try to feed him and show him about the food. 

He's still getting used to me and the surroundings. I can't wait to go get the cage I have in storage so the little peeper can move into a larger, more open space. Besides, an upside down laundry basket looks kind of odd in the middle of my living room LOL.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

badbird said:


> although it has been drinking water I think it needs to eat more.
> 
> 
> 
> Any recommendations for him to eat more? Maybe he's not hungry yet.




Hi badbird, 


Yes...what I described above.


Get a Shot Glass, fill it with small whole Seeds, and keep your finger tips on his Beak sides toward the back, and gently guide his Beak into the Seeds in the small Glass, keeping your finger tips on it AS he eats...while he eats, and let ghim eat. He will sort of 'gobble' the Seeds.


Do this a few times, and he will be pecking...he will connect the visually 'seeing' the Seeds you are guiding his Beak into, with the feelings of the 'eating' he is doing, and then he will start pecking the Seeds when you hold the little Glass up to him.


Then, you can spill some onto the towell for him, and he will peck those.


Then...he knows how to peck, and you can provide Seeds in the usual way and he will eat them.


You need to realize these Birds have never 'seen' food...for them, food is something like a 'feeling' and inside the Beak and mouth and Crop tactile thing, which goes along with their parents feeding them. So far, it has been a feeling mode thing they had with their parents.

They have never experienced food as something which is outside of them.

They have never seen a Seed...


And so, they benifit from being guided through some intermediary steps, and especially, when these steps have some elements of the tactile they knew ( keeping your moist-warm finger tips on his Beak) ...for them to make the progression.



Ultimately they CAN over eat...so only let him eat so much at a time, by the Beak-into-Glass, or after he gets the hang of it, by himself...only let him eat a certain amount, enough for a half full Crop or so, then he can eat again in a few hours.


Seeds swell in the Crop, so long as Water is drank anyway...and if their Crop is full of dry Seeds, they can swell and be painfully too full in there.


Have fun...!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## arbalist (May 6, 2007)

Thanks for the replys guys, my bird is a little older and quite nervous I'm sure he should be feeding on his own. He does'nt like me getting too close and makes a hissing noise if I do! John, he does'nt seem to be injured and looks quite healthy. I really just want to maintain him long enough to be sure that when I let him go he will be able to fly away.

Vic.

_I will try and attach a pic I took of him yesterday_


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## arbalist (May 6, 2007)

Update. I managed to get him to sit on my hand this morning so I thought I'd "try him out" in the garden. I held him up in the breeze and after a minute or so he just glided to the ground  After a little chase round the lawn he flew up onto the fence! I'll keep an eye on him but not much more I can do now at the moment. Feel a little choked now he's gone.


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## pigeonperfect (May 7, 2007)

*Juvy*

The pigeon is a fledgling, which is why it cannot fly well...much like a child learning to walk. They just don't get up on their feet one day and walk across a room.

If you can take the bird back inside, do so, as it is not very good at finding food at this time. 

Putting food in a bowl, as well as scattering some on the floor of his enclosure will help him. Putting a mirror inside the enclosure helps them not to feel alone. 

I was a wildlife rehabber in NJ for many years. When raising a babies, give them as much time as you can once you have them, otherwise, they are very young and not as fast as the adults of their kind around them. They become food for prey more easily.

Renee


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## badbird (Aug 15, 2005)

thanks Phil for some reason I had missed that post  



pdpbison said:


> Hi badbird,
> 
> 
> Yes...what I described above.
> ...


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## badbird (Aug 15, 2005)

trying to get him to eat this time was a disaster lol. he would squirm like crazy and fidget. then he would *not stop peeping/squeaking.* sometimes he'd try to get away, sometimes he'd try to cuddle up against me. either way, he would not open his mouth when i tried your technique. 

finally i had my thumb and fore fingerat the back of its beak and it opened its mouth a little and some seeds got into its mouth while it was moving its bill around and it started swallowing some seeds. it was kind of scooping the seeds in and swallowing. sort of like you described but not exactly. the pigeon was resisting me holding him and trying to touch its beak with warm moist fingertips and it was quite challenging.

i did manage to get some food in its crop though. i can gently touch that area of the bird and it feels like a small pouch of seed.

Following medicine dropper directions on this site carefully, I used a medicine dropper to give it some bird-vitamin enhanced water although it appears it had been drinking some water from the cup anyway.

I have him in a cage now so I can see him. The upside down laundry basket had to go lol. He's just hanging out in there and he stopped all that peeping.

Whats really cute is when I make OOOoooo noises he gets really excited, paces around and bobs his neck all over trying to find 'mom' but all he sees is me and is not pleased. Lol.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi badbird,



Well, you are getting 'close'...


Just be slow, gently, definite...keep your arms to your sides and so on, and be very focused. You can look at him when you do the "oooOOooo!", and only do the "ooooOOoooo" if you are immediately going to do the Beak massage thing AND try and feed him, or even do them at the same time, then when he 'nuzzles', feed him, guide his Beak into the Seeds...he knows you are sort of asking him if he'd like you to feed him, it is just the 'docking' maneuvers are not lined up quite right so he is balking somewhat.

Stay in front of him...and have him up on something so you, when you bend over to reach over low and softly massage his Beak area there, you are not too much higher than him.


You two are half way there...


Have fun..!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## badbird (Aug 15, 2005)

great news. my bird is doing well. i witnessed him eating right out of the seed bowl this morning and taking drinks from the water dish. the water is vitamin fortified so that's good. in the morning i have his cage in the window so he can get sunshine. but i move it away when i go to work because i dont want him to fry in the sun.

when i came home from work it had eaten a lot of seeds. some were also on the towel now and i saw him pecking and eating off the ground. thank god.

i had bought a syringe and baby food from PetSmart just in case but I'll probably take that back with him being self sufficient. His poops had been lacking and didn't have much more than white splatter. I am happy to report they look typical now. I think putting his beak into the seed cup repeatedly helped.

He is certainly getting a little bigger and his feathers look great. the yellow is going away. his feet are turning more red and his beak is starting to turn white where his waddle(?) would be if he was an adult. he still is peeping though. when i get near the cage he runs around squeaking. not sure if he is excited to see me or afraid. i think he's afraid because when i went to change the water he was trying to peck at my fingers.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

So far so good...!


You should assemble a 'Kit' of various things for times to come you know...


Phil
Las Vegas


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## badbird (Aug 15, 2005)

yea maybe ill tuck the baby food away. i'm glad i still have nail clippers and vitamins, food, meds, and other bird care things from my last pet.


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## badbird (Aug 15, 2005)

my next question is about the peeping/squeaking. since he is eating and drinking well now, sometimes he'll stand up and squeak incessantly. is he calling me? afraid of me? i can be across the room or by the cage and he will start making those noises. sometimes ill egg him on and make the Ooooo OOOoooooh pigeon noises and he squeaks even more.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi badbird, 


When they are still new at eating/pecking for themselves, they will sort of 'narrate' the activity, and or still make the same sort of sounds and enthuisiams, with much the same 'peeping' or 'squeaking' that they had made in situations of being fed. They will twirl in circles, wag one wing and so on, all the same stuff.


Probably you should not egg him on by "ooooOOooo" ing...since this is calling him to come to you and be fed or Watered, even you two do not quite have it down, and even if it is mutable.

It should only be done when for real...in instances where you are offering Water or Food or feeding.

When this IS together, one can call them down from the roof or other and they will come to be fed or Watered, prior to release, as such.


It is the manner Pigeons parents have to announce to the Babys, that is is feed time...and to call them to come to momma or come to daddy, once the Babys are ambulatory, or even flying already, and the parents are feeding them next to or near the Nest, or even several feet from it when that is logistically possible, or in some far from the Nest grazing or forraging place.

But offering tones of praise and recognition for his accomplishment is good, offering admiration/acknowledgement and positive emotion tones, for his accomplishment in pecking and self-feeding...this is good to do, and can be other 'up' tones and so on.


Too, before he is flying, take him to places the wild/feral Pigeons eat and graze...do this often, feed 'them' and set him among them and stand off five feet or so, kneel down and be very still...no arm or hand movements... and keep your eyes gently on him and offer quiet words and vibes of praise and admires, and make sure he knows you are 'there'...he may be nervous and distracted the first few times, but it will pass, and soon he will wing slap even BIG brutes, and at least some of them will get out of his way, too. Some will not, and he will run to you then, or, he will run anyway.


He needs to be pecking and being shoulder to shoulder with wild/feral others...so do this while you can, before he can fly away prematurely if he spooks or gets conflicted...then, before he can quite fly off, stop, and keep him another week or two...and let him fly indoors all he likes to build muscle, then, once he is developed enough for release, release him there, with them, to them...and he will be fine. He will have a ready and waiting flock to join, and being with these rough and tumble others will not be intimidating or strange...he will know what to do...


Phil
Las Vegas


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## badbird (Aug 15, 2005)

thanks everyone for the tips and advice. everything's coming around great.


i have owned a pigeon before but never a young so some certain things are new to me.

one thing though is he is coming around and taking a liking to me. although he can't fly across the room, he does run toward me when he is out of the cage. he hops up on my lap and lays down. then when he is adventorous he flutters about and sort of flies around. when i first took him in he would run away and hide and hated me near him. nice to see him turning around.

he prefers to be on my shoulders now though, or arm. once he discovered hanging out there i could not get him off of me. the instant i took him off or if he fell off he would attempt to get back by climbing or trying to flutter up there.

also tonite before i put him in the cage he was eating seeds right out of my hand. not even my pet pigeon i had for a while would do that!


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## badbird (Aug 15, 2005)

hey all i just thought i'd give an update.

I still have the bird. I have named it "Flapper." Why? Not sure if its a boy or girl yet (need something unisex) and it loves to flap its wing...but not fly anywhere. I put it in the other room without furnishings so I don't care about where it goes. It doesn't want to fly around even though it has plenty of room. It just sits on a perch by the window and "flaps" its wings rapidly like a helicopter. doesn't move though LOL. He can sort of fly though. If i put him in the air and try to coax him into flying he can become airborn for a short period of time but can't really go far and he lands quickly..... usually he lands on me. LOL

I also put him outside near other birds and he keeps coming back to me. he tries to climb up on me or fly up on me and doesn't want to leave me. looks like i have a new friend for life lol.



he does still squeak, quite often. i'll walk in the room and it just gets louder. when i put the bird up to me he pecks my nose or hands, etc in an affectionate manner. its nice that it doesn't bite me like my pet bird i had before.

also he is not appearing to be releaseable at this time as he doesn't go anywhere if i let him be. tried it once to see what it would do. nothin.


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