# found a pigeon :) have a few questions



## [email protected] (Jan 3, 2006)

my mom and i went to the health food store she works at to shop yesterday. it was her day off, and i hadnt seen the new store. we got there later then we wanted, and it was pretty busy, but we were there maybe an hour. on the way back she took a different route, and in a parking lot was a pigeon obviously in distress, who im guessing had been hit by a car. neither of us wanted to leave the bird there to die, and it was very cold and windy. it was her idea to turn back and get him, and by the time she had turned around and pulled in the lot, the bird was still, but alive. i wrapped him in my shirt and brought him home, figuring at least hed pass in a warm quiet place.

it turns out what attracted us to him was that he was having a seizure, and he continued having one after another for a couple of hours. i had bought some rescue remedy and a number of homeopathics, so gave him a couple of those plus the rescue remedy. hed come out of one for a minute, only to have another, but after a while the time between them was longer, then they stopped. he was dazed and confused, but as the night went on, seemed ok, with no other signs of injury, except a slight injury to his right eye. he eventually took the sugar water i gave him, and was able to drink it himself, but hasnt really eaten a whole lot. he slept through the night, and has been sleeping on and off all day today, but seems alert, is preening and kinda picking at the food i have for him. he cant stand, and this afternoon i discovered hes favoring his right leg. i cant tell if its broken or not, but will splint it just in case. 

hes pretty calm for a wild bird, but being a pigeon, i guess that isnt too unusual. he does have a habit of shaking his head at times, which is something my male ring-necked dove also does, but im not sure what it means? i was reading here that they close their eyes when they are in pain? he does keep his right eye closed more of course, because of the injury (he can see out of that eye, though), but other then that, his actions are pretty similar to Kachina (my dove, who is very interested in the new arrival). he is very relaxed, and doesnt seem to be in pain, although i imagine he would hide that. 

i did have a couple questions, one being how likely it would be that he has a transferrable disease (i have other birds as well). also, is there a likelehood he can pass something to people? id like to have an answer to anyone who might say he could pass something to people. personally, i think i have more to worry about catching something from people, lol.

i have some pictures of him, taken early this morning, but have no idea if/how i can post them, so if anyone can help, that would be great 


i know many people think of pigeons as pests or "junk birds", but ive always been fond of them, and couldnt just leave him where he was. i was very happy to find this forum where so many others obviously feel the same way! i know he would have died, either from the constant siezures, or exposure, or maybe from a passing human or animal. looks like he will be here a little while, anyway, with his leg being hurt, so im trying to come up with a name. im only guessing male, cause i dont think theres an easy way to tell either way. hes already got quite a personality, hopping out of his container and back onto my lap twice this morning, when i changed his bedding


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thank you and your mother for rescuing this poor little pigeon. You're right, he could never survive if it wasn't for you.

It is hard to tell if his syptoms are a result of inury or illness. Head trauma can cause this and also PMV, a viral disease, not transmittable to humans. But it is contagious to other birds, so make sure he is kept separated from your dove. Best to have them in separate rooms.
Paratyphoid, caused by Salmonella could also cause these syptmos and this is also contagious even to humans. 
There also several other viral and bacterial encephalitis causing syptoms like this.
After handling the bird keep always wash your hands and change your clothing.
When I have a bird with a contagious disease I put an old shirt on top of my clothes which I remove when I am done and leave it in the room where the sick bird is, that way I don't transfer any germs out of the area.

For now keep the bird warm, well hydrated and well fed.
I would also give him a broad spectrum antibiotic. If you have an avian vet he can check the bird and prescribe some meds. It is best to have have a diagnosis you treat specifically for.

Reti


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## [email protected] (Jan 3, 2006)

hi Reti,

thanks for your quick reply! based on his eye and leg injuries, as well as his location (near a busy intersection), i am guessing he was "clipped" by a car. the seizures would also fit in with a head injury. i have antibiotics i can give him, and an avian vet if i need her. he is alert, eyes bright, not sluggish etc. he doesnt seem to be eating much but loves the sugar water i offer. droppings seem normal. hes not showing any signs of illness or dehydration. with so many critters, im in the habit of washing my hands often, and will try the shirt idea, thanks


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

What a wonderful rescue! Thank you and your Mom!

If you post a reply, scroll down to the bottom until you see "Manage Attachments" .. that's where you post a picture. If it doesn't work for you, please feel free to send any pics to me at [email protected], and I'll get them on Pigeon-Talk for you.

Thank you again for helping this needy pigeon!

Terry


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## [email protected] (Jan 3, 2006)

hi Terry, thanks! hopefully these will go through:


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi [email protected],

Thank you for rescueing this Pigeon...


Might be mycotoxins from eating musty grains...might be poison...might be PMV, but somehow that is not my hunch on this one...might be neurological impairments from head trauma...

Ask your Vet or put your 'Math Cap' on and figure out the dosage for giving the Bird Aspirin, or get some sort of anti-inflamatorys from your Avian Vet...this should help.

Get a full fecal analysis done also...

If any hints of 'yellow' in the poos, consider to treat for Canker ( Trichomoniasis ) which ilness/infection can occasion some kinds of 'head shaking'...


Keep them warm of course, as on a towell covered electric Heating Pad...

Raw Apple Cider Vinegar Water, made by adding one or one and a half Tablespons of raw ACV to a Gallon of Water, might be a good one for their dinking Water for a while...

Make a "U" shape from a small hand towell, for the Bird to lay in/on so it may reach it's Seeds and Water from that position if possible...and have this on a single layer towell covered Heating Pad...try and have it set to medium maybe, if too hot use two towells under the "U", or so the place the Bird is on is about your own body temperature, anyway. 

Make sure they are out of any drafts and free from the attentions or curiousities of any Cats, Dogs, Children or other animals.

If he does not start eating much, you will either have to hand feed him or find a way to inspire him TO start eating much...!

Lol...

But true!

Anyway, by 'normal' poops, what do you mean? Can you descripe them? 

Lastly, his 'Eye'...if it seems at all scratched ot enflamed or injured or swollen, of course have your Vet look at it with the intention of decideing if it has a Virus or Pox or is instead some physical injury otherwise...

'Neosporin' is allright for eyes to ward off or eliminate bacterial interlopers, or, get the antobiotic Eye goop in the little tube from a Pharmacist.

Leg-wise, can you describe more?


Good luck...!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

*Hi SDREAMCATCHER*

Welcome to Pigeon Talk. Sounds as though you are pretty much on top of things.

Wouldn't hurt to have your Vet check that leg and have a fecal done, just to be on the safe side! 

Pigeons sure have a way of burrowing into your heart and they are wonderful birds. I don't believe in "accidents" and know that you were in the right place at the right time to help this pigeon. I see this time after time on this site! Thanks for rescuing him/her!

I'm sure other knowledgable members will add their comments too. Do keep us updated on your new one!

By the time I posted, I noticed OTHER posts PLUS your pictures! What a lovely pigeon! Looks like a young one. I hope he/she makes a FULL recovery!


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## [email protected] (Jan 3, 2006)

Hi phil,

by "normal" droppings, i mean the color is green, not too dark, not too light (having a lot of other birds, its pretty easy to notice somethings wrong.) no yellow. the head shaking, isnt excessive; my dove also does this. best way i can describe it is they look like they are disagreeing with me. i figure its a body language thing? 

hes all nice and cozy in another room, no way of cats or dogs getting in. i did have him out in his container with me while the dogs and my kitty were outside this afternoon, and he seemed interested in the tv, the fishtanks, and Kachinas flights (Kachina did a few flyovers to catch a glance). hes definitely not lethargic, and hes picking at food. with his droppings fairly frequent, he may be eating more then hes letting on 



pdpbison said:


> Hi [email protected],
> 
> Thank you for rescueing this Pigeon...
> 
> ...


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## [email protected] (Jan 3, 2006)

hi, Mr. Squeaks

i agree that these birds quickly find their way to the heart; this one certainly has . i also believe this happened for a reason, and im glad he trusted me enough to let me catch him. while he did seem scared at first, he shows no fear of humans at this point, which i still find unusual? any way of telling age and gender? i plan on naming him/her . other then the leg being injured (he holds it up), the slight eye injury, and him not eating a whole lot (i could be wrong on this one though, and since im finding droppings and hes not lethargic, he probably is just playing with me, lol), he seems in good health.

he nibbles my fingers and hands, and also at my shirt and his container. im not sure what this means, if anything? he took some more sugar water, but seems to take a minute to figure out how to get that water, even though hes done it before. he pecks at the food, and picks up the seeds. i have a dove mix for him, plus whole grain bread crumbs and banana nut muffin crumbs (without the nuts). ive tried soaking the crumbs in sugar water, but no luck. any ideas on foods that pigeons cant resist?



mr squeaks said:


> Welcome to Pigeon Talk. Sounds as though you are pretty much on top of things.
> 
> Wouldn't hurt to have your Vet check that leg and have a fecal done, just to be on the safe side!
> 
> ...


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi [email protected],


Your pictures had not appeared, or I had not noticed them when I posted earlier...

This is a young Bird, a late Juvenile, who may not have ever really eaten on his own yet...

You mention 'green', but what about 'white'?

Head Shaking like saying 'no' can be from Canker...or neck contusion/strain...

The 'nibbleing' is him asking you to feed him. Likely, untill now, he has never eaten but for his parents feeding him.

If he is pooping, then at least we know it has not been too long since his previous meals...

I would be glad to post some info for you on that later tonight...gotta run now...

Best wishes...!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2006)

*He's a cutey*

You have a really charming looking young bird there!

It seems like lots of rescued pigeons are found at about this age. It's probably because they are too young to take care of themselves, but old enough to get into trouble.

Monica


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## [email protected] (Jan 3, 2006)

ok, now im a bit confused; this is january, and im in colorado, where we have had a great deal of very cold weather already. how late do pigeons nest?? what age would you guess?

yes, there is white with the green in his droppings. the head shaking is not constant, and my dove does it as well, which is why i still think its not related to illness. i figured it was body language of some sort, so will look around online.

he does have some hairlike white feathers on his head. he is fully feathered, but i thought those were a bit unusual.

i tried hand feeding, after seeing some posts here, but he just shook off my attempts. he is active and preening and not showing signs of starvation, but im still worried. he did pick up a few seeds, and i think he swallowed them. he drinks water on his own, but attemps to put anything in it besides sugar water causes him to refuse the food. ive had him over 24 hours now.



pdpbison said:


> Hi [email protected],
> 
> 
> Your pictures had not appeared, or I had not noticed them when I posted earlier...
> ...


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## [email protected] (Jan 3, 2006)

thanks, Monica; im hoping he starts eating better. other then that he seems fine, but the area he was in is not the best place for a baby pigeon (or any pigeon, for that matter)  



Monica said:


> You have a really charming looking young bird there!
> 
> It seems like lots of rescued pigeons are found at about this age. It's probably because they are too young to take care of themselves, but old enough to get into trouble.
> 
> Monica


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hello and thank you for the great rescue!

The bird does look young, and may need help eating.

If he is just picking up seed and dropping them, or picking up and swallowing slowly, he will need help. If he is drinking on his own, I would provide him with a spill proof bowl of seed and water, and he will practice eating. 

Meanwhile, you can pop some seeds down his throat or feed him seeds with a baby spoon. He should be eating a tablespoon of seed three times a day.
Gently open the mandables with thumb and forefinger, and drop seeds to the back of the throat. He is not used to this and will rebel at first.

You can put a drop of Sovereign Silver Colloidal Silver, in his eye, and one in his water bowl, in case of infection. A good pinch of human grade probiotics wouldn't hurt, and help him crowd out any bad gut bacteria that he may have. Youngsters always need a jump start on good gut flora as they do not have enough good gut bacteria to begin with, and stress depletes it. 

I would also recommend seing an vian vet asap for diagnosis.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hello, and welcome to the forum. A big thumbs up to you and your mom for rescuing this pigeon. It looks like a juvenile to me and I'm basing this on his size and the few down feathers on top of his head. This may have been his first excursion out on his own and managed to get himself in trouble.

I would definitely take this little guy to your vet to check the leg. If he was hit by a car that could account for the initial seizures and he may have broken his leg. The sooner the leg is set the better off he will be.

The poop you are seeing may still be from his parents feeding him if you have not had him more than a day. You mentioned having dogs and a cat. What you can do until you get him to a vet is soak some of your dog or cat food until it is soft and moist (but not soggy) and depending on the size of the pellets (if they are large, break them into smaller pieces) just gently open his beak and put some of the pieces of food down his throat, past his air hole. I usually gently massage their necks to help the pellets go down easier. This can help give him nourishment until you see that he is definitely eating seed.
Ideally, a hand feeding formula is best, like Kaytee Exact but the dog food should work ok until you determine if he is eating.

Keep us posted. Maggie


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## [email protected] (Jan 3, 2006)

*thank you and update *

hi everyone, thanks so much for your interest and support! i used rescue remedy, a combination of bach flower essences useful for trauma, fear, and/or shock (great to have on hand for any animal suffering shock). the homeopathics i used on him were arnica and hypericum. i strongly recommend at least the arnica; its great for bleeding, bruising, swelling, and pain. i believe both of them together were helpful in ending his seizures, and he hasnt had one since.


todays update is very good; he is eating on his own, drinking on his own, and appears very strong. hes has been preening a lot, sleeping most of the time, and still favors his right leg, but hes alert and active when he is awake. my dove, Kachina, takes lots of little naps throughout the day, and this new guy has been through a lot, so im not surprised he spends a lot of time resting. other then being a bit on the thin side, and the leg, i think he will be fine. all he needs is a name (Lucky is taken, lol; i have a rabbit named Mister Lucky - Lucky for short, who was rescued from a snake).


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Yep, he's too young to be out on his own--the pix are absolute proof. He doesn't look like he should know enough about eating to do a very good job of it for awhile although starvation is a very good motivator to learn. I've had a few that have gotten whacked and have had seizures for awhile. You didn't describe the seizures in enough detail to be diagnostic for a sight-unseen patient, however. The nibbling of fingers is what they normally do to their parents as affection and a request for feeding. 

You say that he's favoring the leg--does that mean that the other leg does not work at all? It could be anything from a sprain to a break to an arthritic joint indicative of a Paratyphoid infection as has already been pointed out. If it gets spontaneously better quite soon, then that diagnosis is probably out (a very good thing). If he doesn't use it at all for weight-bearing, then you'll have to find the break and splint it (masking tape and popsickle stick pieces work great for that as long as you clip the feathers with scissors where the splint needs to go).

Keep us posted.

Pidgey


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> ok, now im a bit confused; this is january, and im in colorado, where we have had a great deal of very cold weather already. how late do pigeons nest?? what age would you guess?
> 
> he does have some hairlike white feathers on his head. he is fully feathered, but i thought those were a bit unusual.
> 
> i tried hand feeding, after seeing some posts here, but he just shook off my attempts. he is active and preening and not showing signs of starvation, but im still worried. he did pick up a few seeds, and i think he swallowed them. he drinks water on his own, but attemps to put anything in it besides sugar water causes him to refuse the food. ive had him over 24 hours now.



[email protected],

From the pictures you provided up-post, I'd guess the bird is about 5 weeks old, probably no more... he's still got some down, those "hairlike white feathers on his head"... and his/her waddles aren't even white yet.

What kind of seed are you offering him?

Have you checked his mouth for Canker? Hold him in one hand and gently open his beak with the other and look in for a yellowish "cheeselike" growth. If you see anything like that, don't attempt to remove it, but you'll have to get some meds to treat it.


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## [email protected] (Jan 3, 2006)

hi Pidgey,

well, the food problem is a thing of the past it would appear; because he has eaten a great deal of food already today. i moved him to a 5-gallon tank, and he has a dish for food and a dish for water, and his seed is disappearing. ive also watched him, and hes definitely picking up the seeds and swallowing them. he didnt like the soaked dog food offered yesterday, but i may try the whole grain bread and muffin crumbs again; anything to put on weight. hes on the dove mix i buy for Kachina right now. oh, and he seems to have eaten the greens i put in there; i gave some to all the critters, and since Kachina loves them, i figured id offer him a tiny bit as well. basically im going by whatever id offer Kachina, since doves and pigeons are similar? Kachina is a ringnecked dove.

luckily that first evening was the only time he had the siezures. they were frightening; hed throw his head way back, flap his wings, and shake. mostly wing flapping and his head going way back. after the treatments, he started having longer periods in between the seizures, but for an hour or so, they were one right after the other. ive had many pets with seizures in the past, and i will never get used to it, but even then, it took me a while to realise thats what was going on, because the first one he had after getting home i thought he was dying. he was in the middle of one when we noticed him, and quiet and still by the time my mom had turned around. he didnt have one in the few minutes it took to get him home, but then they returned. they were maybe one or two minutes each. i probably should have gotten video (my digital camera does have video), but at the time, my main concern was keeping him safe so he wouldnt hurt himself.

i figured the nibbling was a baby thing. hes very cute when he does it. he also tastes everything; the glass, the paper towels, everything, lol. the leg im not sure about; i cant see an obvious break or disfigurment of the leg. he simply holds it up. i cant tell if he has feeling in his toes. he doesnt have grip, although im sure he did the first night. he can scratch with his "bad" foot, so there is movement. he just doesnt want to put weight on it. im hoping its nerve damage; i know that will correct itself in time. but i may splint it just in case. i had a hamster with nerve damage in her back feet from an accident; the foot most damaged took a few weeks to heal, but the toes did eventually regain feeling. my gut feeling says its nerve damage. it doesnt appear to bother him, and i dont think hes in pain? his eye looks pretty good, and he does have vision in that eye.

hes more active today, and doing a lot of preening. it took him all morning to clean off all the food from my attempts at hand feeding late last night/very early this morning, lol, and the looks he gave me for that were priceless.

im still amazed that pigeons would have nested so late? could he really have been in a nest all this time? weve had some bitter cold temps and snow already this year, although the last couple of weeks have been very pleasant. the evening we found him, there was a very cold wind. poor baby; i dont know how long he was out there. my best guess is he richocheted off someones windshield flying over the street, and manged to flutter over to the parking lot.



Pidgey said:


> Yep, he's too young to be out on his own--the pix are absolute proof. He doesn't look like he should know enough about eating to do a very good job of it for awhile although starvation is a very good motivator to learn. I've had a few that have gotten whacked and have had seizures for awhile. You didn't describe the seizures in enough detail to be diagnostic for a sight-unseen patient, however. The nibbling of fingers is what they normally do to their parents as affection and a request for feeding.
> 
> You say that he's favoring the leg--does that mean that the other leg does not work at all? It could be anything from a sprain to a break to an arthritic joint indicative of a Paratyphoid infection as has already been pointed out. If it gets spontaneously better quite soon, then that diagnosis is probably out (a very good thing). If he doesn't use it at all for weight-bearing, then you'll have to find the break and splint it (masking tape and popsickle stick pieces work great for that as long as you clip the feathers with scissors where the splint needs to go).
> 
> ...


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## [email protected] (Jan 3, 2006)

hi ZigZag,

i didnt see your post till now; he is now eating on his own. hes getting a dove mix with a variety of seeds, and im going to offer the whole grain bread and muffin crumbs later. i didnt check his beak, but if hes eating, hes probably ok, right?



ZigZagMarquis said:


> [email protected],
> 
> From the pictures you provided up-post, I'd guess the bird is about 5 weeks old, probably no more... he's still got some down, those "hairlike white feathers on his head"... and his/her waddles aren't even white yet.
> 
> ...


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Oh, forgot to mention about the nesting thing--pigeons will try to raise nestlings under unbelievably bad conditions. They're hatched optimists (vs. "born").

Pidgey


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Thanks for the update.

I was worried about him eating, glad to hear hat he is eating seeds, he won't need the bread, there is no nutritional value in it for pigeons. He needs a good pigeon mix of seeds, grains and legumes. You can also use the wild bird seed mix for now.

I'm glad the Arnica Montana and the Hypericum are working well for him, I've always had great results with the Arnica.


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## [email protected] (Jan 3, 2006)

what sort of grains, seeds, and legumes should he be getting? the dove mix is from the feed store (they have a variety of fancy pigeons there), and has a good variety of seeds, so that should be ok?

arnica is awesome; ive used it for so many critters in the past, and it always amazes me how well it works, and how quickly!



Trees Gray said:


> Thanks for the update.
> 
> I was worried about him eating, glad to hear hat he is eating seeds, he won't need the bread, there is no nutritional value in it for pigeons. He needs a good pigeon mix of seeds, grains and legumes. You can also use the wild bird seed mix for now.
> 
> I'm glad the Arnica Montana and the Hypericum are working well for him, I've always had great results with the Arnica.


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> hi ZigZag,
> 
> i didnt see your post till now; he is now eating on his own. hes getting a dove mix with a variety of seeds, and im going to offer the whole grain bread and muffin crumbs later. i didnt check his beak, but if hes eating, hes probably ok, right?



Dove mix is probably good. If you want, please post the brand name and ingrediants off of the bag of feed you got him... look to see what it says the proteine content is, but if its a dove mix, its probably good to go.

If the bird is eating, that's way good. Probably just took it a little bit to get used to its new home. Like all animals, they won't starve themselves to death unless seriously ill is a pretty good rule of thumb IMO... don't think of it as an emergency or anything, just sometime when your holding the bird, gently check inside its mouth for canker. Bets are its a non-issue, but if the bird does have canker, its easy to treat once you know its there.

As Trees' said, bread / muffin crumbs are really not that good for birds even though they'll wolf it down... your better off feeding your little one on a good seed mix.

Like Pidgey said... if pigeons have shelter (e.g. good nesting places) and a good food source, they'll lay eggs and raise squabs all year round, pretty much, so it wouldn't be impossible to find a squab this age even in your area. Its parents must have had a good nest and lots of food. Aside... a lot of pigeon racers start putting their breeders together shortly after Thanksgiving / before Christmas to get them down on eggs and raising squabs for their "next year's" Young Bird Race Teams... that means they'd get their birds breeding between Thanksgiving & Christmas 2005 to get hatchlings banded 2006 for the 2006 race season... late summer / fall or something like that.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> what sort of grains, seeds, and legumes should he be getting?


Here is an example of what goes into a good pigeon mix:

http://purgrain.com/ingredients.htm

The dove mix will do for now.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi [email protected],


Glad to hear he is pecking successfully...!

And of course, as mentioned above here and there, skip the bread, and go with good wholesome Seeds and some Greens like Kale or endive or as may be...( not lettuce anyway...)

"Pigeon Mix" of one ind or another would be excellent...so, see if that store has it, or, call some Farm and Feed Stores in your area, they should have it. If choices, get the medium protean kind.

Do you have Grit for your Dove that he can also have? If not, get some...for them both.


The 'leg'...if he holds it up and it does not flop ir dangle sideways like it is hanging by a string, then it is almost certainly a sprain or a green stick fracture or both, which will ammend itself nicely in a few weeks with easy going till then..and no need for any 'splints'.

Keep him "warm" of course...

Do you have him set up on a Heating Pad? ( Sorry I could not remember...! )

Be careful he does not over stuff himself...so, check how full "full" can be now and then of his Crop...if it looks like he may be overdoing it, (ie like he swallowed a Tennis Ball...) maybe provide Seeds in definite quantities he can fit into his Crop, till the next meal of Seed Dish replenishment, after his Crop empties somewhat...they can over do it sometimes, and as the Seeds hydrate, their Crop can swell out more than is good for it...

Best wishes...!

 

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Poulette (Feb 5, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> what sort of grains, seeds, and legumes should he be getting? the dove mix is from the feed store (they have a variety of fancy pigeons there), and has a good variety of seeds, so that should be ok?


Hi dreamcatcher! Good work with your little pigeon! I rescued some and I curently have one in the house who does not want to go away. I have ringneck doves too, you are right, they are a lot alike to care for. This is ok to give them the same seeds mix, like this one I buy since many years:

http://www.hagen.com/usa/birds/product.cfm?CAT=8&SUBCAT=809&PROD_ID=08027030020101

Have good time with your new "Protégé" pigeon  

Suz.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Suz,

Is there a list on that site of the ingredients in the bag? I am curious to see what is in it.


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## [email protected] (Jan 3, 2006)

hi Phil,
i do feed my other birds lettuce, not iceberg, which you may be thinking of, because it isnt good for them, but romaine and leaf lettuce. i get salad mixes from the health food store, which are organic or mostly organic, mixed greens. 

the dove mix is from the feed store and contains seends, peas, and other grains. Kachina usually picks out what he likes and leaves the rest, lol. but this new guy seems to eat it all. i dont have an ingredient list but could probably get one from them. they also have pigeons, so i can see what they recommend. i know i need to get grit; im not sure if i have a box, but if not will buy more. Kachina gets it occasionally.

yes, he just holds the leg up. its not dangling and i cant see any evidence of a bad break. i was trying to figure out how to splint it, but if its better not to? unfortunately, ive been out of a job for a while and still owe the vets money for my cat and my guinea pig. but if he needed to go in an emergency i could take him.

hes not on a heating pad, but isnt fluffed up or anything. hes moving about (hopping) and eating and drinking well. hes in a 5-gallon tank and has escaped twice, lol. luckily he was in a dog kennel at the time, so didnt get far. i explained to him the second time that he has to rest his leg, and he can fly later, so hopefully pigeons can be reasoned with? lol. i have him out here with me, figuring since hes a social bird, he should be out where there is more activity. so ive covered the tank with a bird cage top, and hes on the top bunk of my bed. Kachina went over to say hi, then he moved, and Kachina stretched his wings way up, lol. guess he wasnt expecting him to move. hes all excited though, flying back and forth and keeping a close eye on the new pigeon. i really need to get this poor fellow a name. any way to know if hes a he or a she?

he doesnt seem to be over-eating, is that common? he eats, preens for a while, grabs some water, takes short naps, etc. i will keep an eye on him.



pdpbison said:


> Hi [email protected],
> 
> 
> Glad to hear he is pecking successfully...!
> ...


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## [email protected] (Jan 3, 2006)

thanks, Suz! do you by chance keep your doves and pigeons together, or know if they will get along?



Poulette said:


> Hi dreamcatcher! Good work with your little pigeon! I rescued some and I curently have one in the house who does not want to go away. I have ringneck doves too, you are right, they are a lot alike to care for. This is ok to give them the same seeds mix, like this one I buy since many years:
> 
> http://www.hagen.com/usa/birds/product.cfm?CAT=8&SUBCAT=809&PROD_ID=08027030020101
> 
> ...


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## Poulette (Feb 5, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> thanks, Suz! do you by chance keep your doves and pigeons together, or know if they will get along?


They are in the same room, but they have separated cages. The pigeon is too rough for the doves!  

Suz.


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## Poulette (Feb 5, 2002)

Trees Gray said:


> Hi Suz,
> 
> Is there a list on that site of the ingredients in the bag? I am curious to see what is in it.


Treesa, here it is:

White millet, red milo, red millet, whole wheat, canary grass seed, feed oats, cracked corn, oat gorats, green split peas, safflower seed, sunflower seed, calcium carbonate, orange oil, vitamin A, D3, E supplements, manganous oxide, zinc oxide, ferrous carbonate, copper sulphate sodium, selenite, calcium iodate.
Crude protein 11%, crude fat 4%, crude fiber 10% ...

And the orange oil makes the mix smell very good for me  

Suz.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Poulette said:


> Treesa, here it is:
> White millet, red milo, red millet, whole wheat, canary grass seed, feed oats, cracked corn, oat gorats, green split peas, safflower seed, sunflower seed, calcium carbonate, orange oil, vitamin A, D3, E supplements, manganous oxide, zinc oxide, ferrous carbonate, copper sulphate sodium, selenite, calcium iodate. Crude protein 11%, crude fat 4%, crude fiber 10% ..
> And the orange oil makes the mix smell very good for me
> Suz.



Thank you for taking the time to give me the list of ingredients. I am going to see if I can locate it here, looks great!


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## Poulette (Feb 5, 2002)

Hagen is a Montréal's company! I am proud of it  

Suz.

"A History of Growth and Service to the Industry
Rolf C. Hagen Inc. has its International Headquarters in Montreal, Canada and has wholly owned subsidiaries in the United States, England, France, Germany and Malaysia (South East Asia). Joint ventures include Japan, Korea, Thailand and South Africa, there are also numerous strong partnership agreements in quite a few other countries such as Spain, Mexico, Italy, Australia, New Zealand, Taiwan and the Philipines to name just a few. Rolf C. Hagen Inc. distribution capacity spans the globe to provide the very best in pet supplies to the independent pet trade."


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## [email protected] (Jan 3, 2006)

*new pictures *

i hope anyway, if they go through:





































you can kinda see how he holds his hurt foot. he is quite photogenic as well


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## [email protected] (Jan 3, 2006)

*update on Checkers*

just thought id drop by today and reminisce a bit  Checkers is doing great; i am still not sure if hes a he or shes a she, but im leaning towards she. she is a character, very smart, a bit stubborn (ok, really stubborn  ) and just so much a part of my life. i have a number of other critters, most of who fascinate her. she knows what rooms shes not allowed in and knows the words, no, out, off....not all is negative, she knows her name, water, comes when called (ok, sometimes, lol), flies to my shoulder/back when im doing all my critter "chores". she knows there are rooms i dont want her in, but has found a loophole; she knows if im in the forbidden room, she can fly to me and i wont chase her out. clever . she and Kachina (my male ringneck dove) still have times they dont get along, and times they actually seek each other out. Checkers has grown in her lovely neck feathers, coos sometimes (and responds if we coo to her). my brother really likes her and Kachina, and she flies to him, pulls on his hat, tries to remove ears, etc. when my uncle and aunt were here for a visit in february, she flew to both of them. shes very curious, very intelligent, and has no fear of people. her foot doesnt give her nay troubles other then a different walk, and some balance issues. but it doesnt stop her from trying to perch everywhere Kachina goes. 

all in all, not bad for a sad acared injured little feral baby we found, who i never thought would make it through the night. thank God my mom turned the car around (her idea, before i even got out the words) and let me pick her up.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Sounds terrific! So glad to hear the good news!

Do you have any updated pictures on Checkers and Kachina??


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Things sound very good, I as well would love to see any new photos.

Thanks for the update.

Ron


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Great update - s/he sounds a fine little pidge!

John


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I'm so glad to hear the update, and what a well-mannered house guest you have.  

Thank you for all your wonderful care of Checkers.


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## [email protected] (Jan 3, 2006)

*a Checkers twist *

latest update on Checkers; well, i no longer have to guess as to whether hes a he or shes a she, because _she_ is now sitting on an egg  . i plan on leaving the egg in with her, whether its fertile or not, in case pigeons are like other birds and continue laying unless allowed to keep their eggs . heres the catch; there could be the slightest possibility that the egg is fertile. i dont have a male pigeon, though, but ive read and seen pictures of hybrids (sterile) between pigeons and ringnecked doves. Kachina (my male dove) and Checkers do get to fly around together, but they fight so much i figured i had two boys  . they dont share a cage, just free time a few times a week (Checkers is a handful to supervise  ). i have no idea on incubation, and im guessing two eggs is an average number for a pigeon? ill check the egg in a few days if she lets me (talk about fiesty, wow!!) to look for any signs of life. for anyone out there against hybrids, i would probably end up keeping them anyway, but all the information (limited) says the males are sterile and the females dont lay. all this is counting chicks before they hatch, since they arent together that often.......


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Congratulations, it's a hen! How wonderful!  

Incubation for pigeon eggs is about 18 days. Yep, she will lay another one!

Unless you actually saw them mate, chances are Checkers thinks you are her mate and that is why she is laying. I would also keep the eggs, just in case they are fertile, and to keep her from repeating the cycle. As you said, they do and will continue to lay eggs and deplete their calcium reserves.

Thank you for the update!


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## [email protected] (Jan 3, 2006)

no, i didnt, but there are times ive left them out and gone upstairs for a few minutes, so the possibility is there. Checkers likes people and greets everyone, but shes also pesty with Kachina, following him around, and pulling his feathers. hes usually pretty tolerant but sometimes they both have "territory issues". then a few minutes later shes back to following him around and pulling his tail  . 

any ideas on when egg #2 will arrive? do they lay every other day? im going to check this one with a flashlight in a few days, but will leave them in the full 18 days either way.


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

Egg number two should be here today, or as late as tonight, most likely. And you never know, you might have hybrids on your hands! My first pigeon was (and still is lol) a big black guy, and his first "wife" was a little beige ringneck dove. They mated when they were pretty young and gave us two beautiful hybrids. I hadn't actually seen any of the mating going on and was surprised when the eggs hatched. I have at the moment a pair who grew up together, a female pigeon and a male ringneck, and they do very well together. So you never know.  Good luck and I'm glad to see they're both doing so well.


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## [email protected] (Jan 3, 2006)

she did lay another, this afternoon or tonight . maryjane, do you have pictures by chance of your hybrid(s)? i found some online bred in iowa in the 1940s, but no one recent, at least no links i can find.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> she did lay another, this afternoon or tonight . maryjane, do you have pictures by chance of your hybrid(s)? i found some online bred in iowa in the 1940s, but no one recent, at least no links i can find.



Check the eggs in four or five days to see if they are fertile.


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