# Water soluble Ivermectin.



## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

I have been using the oil based Ivermectin for some time, but I have a number of pigeons at the moment and I think I am getting an outbreak of something. I do not feel this oil based Ivermectin is very fast acting, and I do not want to go through the process of having to catch each pigeon to apply the Ivermectin if possible.
I have seen pages on this board and on the internet regarding the use of a water based Ivermectin solution that can be put in the water and quickly given to all the birds. The problem is, in none of the articles I have been reading have I seen a link to any actual product. Is there anyone out there who can point me in the direction of a water soluble Ivermectin that I can use in the water supply?
I have been given the name of another product that is water soluble, but I like the fact that Ivermectin is derived from a chemical occurring in nature and is probably less harmful to the birds and the environment.

One bird I have here, "Baby", that I think has this parasite worse than the rest is displaying odd behavior patterns. First of all he started 'tap dancing'. i.e. when he was on top of a box he would sometimes start stamping his feet up an down so fast that it sounded like he was tap dancing. This seems to me a reaction to something irritating him. His behavior has now taken another turn, and he is walking backwards fast while dragging his neck and head on the floor(just a bit). I think something has got into him and is irritating him in some odd fashion. I also think the others are being bitten by something.

Unfortunately I have to deal with birds in London that live very close to busy motorways and have less and less food available to them. As I'm sure most of you know, pigeons are a very tough and hardy bird, but the conditions in a hot London summer are tough even for them. I am having to deal with more and more birds in trouble of one type or another, and as some of you have pointed out to me I am probably not keeping these birds segregated enough. I feel I need to try and help as many as I can, and a few minor parasites are not a good enough reason to not allow any more birds in. All the birds inside with me regain their health in a short time, they are fed well and have probiotics and vitamins in their water. "Baby" is showing no other signs of illness, in fact he is feeding two babies at the moment with his partner "Blondie" who is also healthy and showing no odd signs.

If I am to control the infestations with a rapid turn around of birds I need a good anti-parasitic and one that I can give them all easily. Hence my request for water soluble Ivermectin. If anyone can give me a link to this I would be most grateful.

Thank you,
Brian.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Quick comment, Brian ... the 'tap dancing' sounds like there could be a red mite problem. If so, then it will also need the boxes washed or sprayed with something.

I read sometimes of this 'diatomaceous earth' which is alleged to kill/repel mites and lice and other external parasites, but cannot say if it does or does not work.

(Sorry, don't know of soluble Ivermectin in the UK)


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

Thank you John D, I will look into red mite. I have also heard of diatomaceous earth, also using tobacco stalks for nest building is supposed to discourage infestation, but to be honest it is the water soluble Ivermectin I think will be of the greatest help.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

I have picked up a little more detail about the water soluble Ivermectin, I think they are talking about using an Ivermectin sheep dip solution and diluting it down for use with the pigeons? Does anybody with more experience than me think this will work? I need to make sure the dosage is not too strong.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

http://www.jedds.com/Detail.bok?category=ALL&no=512&searchpath=8285715


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

Hmmm... I am going to have some difficulty working out a good dosage, although Ivermectin is supposed to be pretty safe. Thank you.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

why not use:
"Moxidectin - A clear water-soluble wormer that not only eliminates roundworms and hairworms but also eradicates all external parasites (including airsac mites) that feed off body fluid. Readily taken by the birds, there is no need to withhold food. The wormer of choice during racing, breeding and moulting."


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

I am continuing to read about Ivermectin, and I think I am going to have to admit defeat ob this one. I cannot find any clear information on how to how to work out the dosage from the dip, also I cannot find the product in the UK.
It looks like I am going to be using Moxidectin, thank you spirit wings.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

I should have looked before, Moxidectin is of the same type of naturally derived chemical that Ivermectin is, and seems safe in drinking water. Great. I just need to find somewhere I can order to the UK.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

Bugger, its perscription only in the UK. Can you tell me where you get yours, I may be able to order from an American firm?


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

Its not prescription only in the uk, medicanimal sells it. I cannot work out which would be the best one to use, can someone advise?

http://www.medicanimal.com/search?k...escription=N&gclid=CJWRtq7bprICFaXKtAodWBoAdA


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

I'm having a hell of a time trying to find this product in the uk, or similar products. Can anyone help?


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Looks like what medicanimal sells off-prescription is a very expensive med for cattle, from that site. The only form in which Moxidectin is normally available, from a vet, is in 'spot-on' form for cats and dogs. I went to my local avian vet one time with one of my lot and enquired about it, in it's normal liquid form. It appeared that prescriptions for the Moxidectin as sold by the Australian Pigeon Co. (Dr Colin Walker) were not available in the UK, because it was already marketed in the spot-on form.

Maybe you could pin down more closely what it is you want to treat them for? For example ... Moxidectin is a good wormer, but only the Moxidectin Plus eliminates tapeworm. It will kill blood sucking parasites, but not those which just inhabit and damage feathers.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Don't know about this stuff .. seems to do the same job

http://pigeons.mercasystems.com/index.php/chevi-tren-control-of-ectoparasites.html


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

John_D said:


> Don't know about this stuff .. seems to do the same job
> 
> http://pigeons.mercasystems.com/index.php/chevi-tren-control-of-ectoparasites.html



John, that's something to dip them in. He wants something that they can drink in water so that he doesn't have to catch them. 
Although I don't see how that would work, as they may not drink enough, and can go drink anywhere. To be treated, they would have to be caught.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

Jay3 the pigeons I am treating are confined to my house, so they would only be drinking from my water. I may have made things sound confusing.
John D I am seriously considering what you have pointed out, although I would still have to catch them to bath them, I do think there is a good chance it would be more effective than the spot on ivermectin. I sometimes have several sick pigeons turn up at once, and as the number of injuries I can deal with has gone up I have had higher numbers going through my "hospital". I also have a few permanents.
I have had such trouble getting hold of a drinkable medication, that I am forced to consider the bath. It has a wide spectrum, and I suspect something that is biting them because of their behavior, and you have mentioned it may be red mite because of Baby's foot tapping behavior. Truth is I need something on hand like this to be able to cope with the condition of the birds that live near the motorways.

Thank you. Any further advice or suggested medicine gratefully accepted,
Brian.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Thanks for making that clearer. Is there no where you can get Pemectrin ll over there? It can be made into a dip for dipping them, or a spray to spray them with. Very effective. Of course you'd still have to catch them.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

Hmmm there is 1 ebay seller in the us selling to the uk that is not charging a lot for deliver. It looks good stuff, do you think it is a better option than the one suggested by John? Have you tried it? I have used a permethrin spray before but it ran out quick, it looks like you get a lot more for your money with this product.
If nothing better comes up, its what I will be buying on wednesday. Thanks.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I love it and lots of people have used it. Very effective, as a spray or as a dip. You do get a lot, and then mix it as a dip or spray. Works great.
Can't say it is better or worse then what John has suggested, as I don't know that other product.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

Its got to be better to buy something that people have experience of. Thanks Jay3.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Think you'll like it.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

I don't think I am going to be able to get it over here, apparently our government doesn't trust us to handle such strong chemicals. I need an american delivery company that doesn't ask too many questions.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

I get various items regularly from Jedds. Others like Foys or Siegels don't ship to the UK.

Alternative is Mercasystems, who I have not personally used, who ship from Spain.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

The thing is Pemectrin ll is an excellent product and would have saved me a lot of money. Its seems the strongest permethrin I can get in the uk is a 0.25% spray. A 10% solution to make up into baths or sprays would have saved me a lot of money, and the amount would have been constantly on hand for a long time. If you have lots of ferals living in tough conditions going in and out of your place then this sort of product would have been great. There are alternatives but they seem much weaker and more expensive. Even with the shipping cost the Pemectrin ll would have worked out very cheap.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

Ah John thank you for directing me to Jedds. We shall see if I get a phone call or email shortly, otherwise things may be good. (except I've ordered the small one by mistake, and I don't want to cancel the order over the phone in case it changes things LOL)


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