# New here



## rzimm001 (Aug 23, 2011)

Hey everyone. I'm new to this forum and a thought I would come check it out. I've been around game birds most of my life, but recently decided to dive head first into keeping pigeons. My father had homers long ago and so I thought it would be a neat father son deal. The thing is I've only had them for a couple of months now and I'm getting anxious to start working with them. I have Doneks, Iranian Highflyer, and one Turkish tumbler. I haven't flown them yet, but the man I bought them off of flew them regularly down in San Diego. I sense I may have made a mistake in buying performance birds though because from everything I have read, there's a lot of work that goes into just keeping them from abandoning their new home. I've read that food isn't really used when it comes to training the doneks. I understand I need to become more familiar with droppers, using calls, etc. I would love some words of encouragement or perhaps guidance on the matter. I don't want to lose all my birds by being unprepaired. Thanks in advance!

Here are some pics of my setup.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I thought these performance breeds can be settled.. homing pigeons are the ones who can go back home if flown and older when bought.

your pigeons are very pretty and have a nice loft. do they have nest boxes?.. are you going to breed one type or let them mix?


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## Nomad_Lofts (Apr 12, 2011)

For the birds you have they should be easy to settle keep them hungry it gives you some control. do you have an avairy where they can see there surroundings? train them how to get in the loft first and use food as the prize. be patient and you might not lose to many.


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## rzimm001 (Aug 23, 2011)

spirit wings said:


> I thought these performance breeds can be settled.. homing pigeons are the ones who can go back home if flown and older when bought.
> 
> your pigeons are very pretty and have a nice loft. do they have nest boxes?.. are you going to breed one type or let them mix?


Thank you! I do not have "boxes" per say, but I do have elevated platforms with pre-made nests attached to them. They have already begun to lay eggs. I moved up the street a few months back and had to leave the birds in my old enclosure until I could erect a new one. The old enclosure was really big and spacious with boxes. The new one is not quite as elaborate but it does have open viewing for the birds to get direct sunlight, as well as a sheltered portion with a roof. I would imagine they are happy with it.

Actually I have plans to sell some of my birds. There are a few too many for the space I have, and it's my understanding that when you fly a kit, smaller numbers are more practical anyhow (maybe I'm wrong).

As far as flying the birds; some of the reading has led me to believe that using the hunger tactic isn't quite as effective with doneks. My father always told me if the enclosure was pleasant for the birds and they were hungry, they will come back. I guess I'm confused by the two different interpretations.


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## rzimm001 (Aug 23, 2011)

Nomad_Lofts said:


> For the birds you have they should be easy to settle keep them hungry it gives you some control. do you have an avairy where they can see there surroundings? train them how to get in the loft first and use food as the prize. be patient and you might not lose to many.


Yes, the enclosure is about 60% open viewing enclosed only by open structure with screen. The other 40% is sheltered from the elements with a roof.

My loft is directly connected to the aviary so they just fly back and forth with ease. I'm not sure if my setup allows me to use the pen as a training tool. I do have a trap that I plan on introducing them too. I suppose I should snatch a few birds up during meal time and take them outside to put them through the trap so they understand. Is that effective?? I've begun already and they get a little irritated with me catching them. Maybe it's the only way. I'll take some more pics of the hold enclosure.

Also, I'm anxious so I tend to feed them frequently by hand rather then to fill up their feeder. I thought this might help them to become comfortable around me and know where the food comes from. Perhaps I'm just confusing them with irregular feeding times. What's your interpretation of a good feeding schedule?


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## rzimm001 (Aug 23, 2011)

*Bigger pictures of my setup*

While I was feeding this morning I snapped some bigger pictures that might help people here know what suggestions to give me. It's not much but I think the birds are happy with it.

I have it under a tree for some shade









Feeding time









Sheltered area with nests









Trap for recovery. The door goes up and down to act as either a blockade or a landing platform.


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## Nomad_Lofts (Apr 12, 2011)

looks good start trap training and when you feed whistle,make a sound or buy a whitle.every time you feed use which ever one you choose. now for the doneks and your hi flyers (whistle is probably your best choice) feeding I do twice a day with my homers my rollers once a day. people say 15min remove feed me I know just about how much to put in feeder without any left overs.


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## Nomad_Lofts (Apr 12, 2011)

would love to have some doneks


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## rzimm001 (Aug 23, 2011)

Nomad_Lofts said:


> looks good start trap training and when you feed whistle,make a sound or buy a whitle.every time you feed use which ever one you choose. now for the doneks and your hi flyers (whistle is probably your best choice) feeding I do twice a day with my homers my rollers once a day. people say 15min remove feed me I know just about how much to put in feeder without any left overs.


Thanks for the pointers! I'm trying to figure out how much food they go through without any left overs. Right now I'm feeding about 8 cups a feeding which is mostly gone after they become disinterested.

For noise i've been trying to rattle the feed can but a whistle is a great idea. How many weeks of traing would you go through before opening the door? Should I force them out the door or just leave it open and see what happens during feeding time?


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## rzimm001 (Aug 23, 2011)

Nomad_Lofts said:


> would love to have some doneks


Might have some for sale after while. Have to see what my pop is going to do. he'll be in need of some birds soon too but I think he might get something different. I know he's crazy about rollers and tumblers.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

do you have snakes in CA?


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## rzimm001 (Aug 23, 2011)

spirit wings said:


> do you have snakes in CA?


Not uncommon at all but you don't see them too often. I know we have rattle snakes, king snakes, and gopher snakes.


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

Let these birds out. I was all nervous at first to let birds out, most people are. You have had these birds for months? Just open the door and let them out. These birds are not like homers, they don't just book it when they go outside. You may want to think about the breeds your keeping. Some birds don't kite up like others.


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## rzimm001 (Aug 23, 2011)

Print Tippler said:


> Let these birds out. I was all nervous at first to let birds out, most people are. You have had these birds for months? Just open the door and let them out. These birds are not like homers, they don't just book it when they go outside. You may want to think about the breeds your keeping. Some birds don't kite up like others.


Well I've had them for a few months but I recently relocated about a mile away from my old location. They've been in the new enclosure for about a week and a half now. I figured on giving them another couple weeks before I open the door.

So it's as easy as leaving the door open? Do I need to be concerned about droppers and what not? I have a pair of birds in my bunch that are not like the rest. I'm not sure what breed they are. I rescued them from someone who found them abandoned on a forclosed property. They have been released before (at my old house) and stuck around. Perhaps they would be ideal for keeping the doneks and highflyers close by.


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

Trust me, they wont be going anywhere. I saw you have a trap, have you trapped train them? I don't even have a trap for my birds. Just feed these birds 1 a day if they are not raising in young right now, feed during the evenings. Then the first time you let them out do it 2 hours before sunset. You have the wrong ideal about your Iranian high flyers and your tumblers. They wont even fly most likely when you let them out for the first time. Your doneks are not going to fly good if you have tumblers and Iranians out with them. You may have a "mess" in the sky. I took in alittle over 20 tumblers from someone who had to get rid of them. I left town right after getting them. They were at my loft for around 5 days when my mother accidentally left the sliding door cracked and had couple birds go out. She open up the door to my tippler loft to let them out and the tumblers didn't go anywhere. They were only here for 5 days, and at the time they were getting 24/7 food.


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## rzimm001 (Aug 23, 2011)

Print Tippler said:


> Trust me, they wont be going anywhere. I saw you have a trap, have you trapped train them? I don't even have a trap for my birds. Just feed these birds 1 a day if they are not raising in young right now, feed during the evenings. Then the first time you let them out do it 2 hours before sunset. You have the wrong ideal about your Iranian high flyers and your tumblers. They wont even fly most likely when you let them out for the first time. Your doneks are not going to fly good if you have tumblers and Iranians out with them. You may have a "mess" in the sky. I took in alittle over 20 tumblers from someone who had to get rid of them. I left town right after getting them. They were at my loft for around 5 days when my mother accidentally left the sliding door cracked and had couple birds go out. She open up the door to my tippler loft to let them out and the tumblers didn't go anywhere. They were only here for 5 days, and at the time they were getting 24/7 food.


Well that's good to hear. I'd rather have them grounded then see them all leave. So if you were in my shoes, would you separate the Iranians? I don't really have a good setup for separating my birds but I guess something could be done.

No they are not trap trained. I've have put a few of them through the trap with my own hands but that's it.


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

I would definite separate the doneks, since they fly different than the other two. You need to trap train your birds. Do you know how to do that? Make a cage the go around the outside of the trap so all they can do is go in. Put them in the cage, shake a can, blow a whistle, whatever your feed call is and then put the food in. Do that for a week. And the day before you let them out. You could keep them all together and just hand pull the breeds out at a time and toss them out, a bit more work. The turkish tumblers i don't know about really. The Iranian high flyers tumble once they hit a certain age. I wouldn't let any of these birds intermix.


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## pidgey boy (Dec 23, 2010)

nice birds, pics and loft, my dad also had tumblers as i do now, however im only 11


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## rzimm001 (Aug 23, 2011)

pidgey boy said:


> nice birds, pics and loft, my dad also had tumblers as i do now, however im only 11


Thank You!

Good for you. Flying pigeons is a great hobby for all ages. I wish I was your age again so I could spend even more time training my birds. Tumblers are one of my favorites. Do you have any pictures?


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## rzimm001 (Aug 23, 2011)

I've been noticing for a good while now that my birds seem skidish/ easily spooked/ etc. I'm not sure if that's the nature of the breed or if there's a culprit responsible. I didn't think too much of it until my father came over and commented that they seemed skidish when I went to feed. They fly down to the ground to eat but return to the roost over the slightest things. They just go back and forth until totally left alone; then they will eat in peace. What's the story? Any suggestions?

If they could be calmed, I think it would help the training.


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

Well, actually if your wanted your birds to fly more, nervous birds are better. Some breeds, like tipplers, were bred to be nervous birds. They do that so they stay in the air longer. They respond to flagging, i had fancy breeds that used to go out with them once in awhile that didn't really fly (had acouple young do a lap or 2 once in awhile) but they would not do anything if i shove the flag pull near them. If you want your birds to be calm, spend more time with them, sitting in the loft or whatever, also clean up where they eat and sit down and put some food on the ground in front of you and in your hand. The more you do that the better they will be.


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## rzimm001 (Aug 23, 2011)

Print Tippler said:


> Well, actually if your wanted your birds to fly more, nervous birds are better. Some breeds, like tipplers, were bred to be nervous birds. They do that so they stay in the air longer. They respond to flagging, i had fancy breeds that used to go out with them once in awhile that didn't really fly (had acouple young do a lap or 2 once in awhile) but they would not do anything if i shove the flag pull near them. If you want your birds to be calm, spend more time with them, sitting in the loft or whatever, also clean up where they eat and sit down and put some food on the ground in front of you and in your hand. The more you do that the better they will be.


Great point about the flying aspect. Maybe it will prove a nice quality. They will eat with me in the pen, but if I raise my hand or something they get spooked and fly away only to come back ten seconds later. It's kind of funny actually.


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

Most pigeons will do that. They are a prey animal so it's only natural for them to be like that. Even pigeons people hand feed can still be flighty. Far less than normal but yeah. I'm probably spending too much time myself in my breeders loft. I have 8 squabs and it's more first time with them (for my tipplers) and I'm all interest in how the colors are turning out and what not haha and I need to start holding myself back from going in there so often. Also it's better for the breeders if you leave them alone more.


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## rzimm001 (Aug 23, 2011)

Print Tippler said:


> Most pigeons will do that. They are a prey animal so it's only natural for them to be like that. Even pigeons people hand feed can still be flighty. Far less than normal but yeah. I'm probably spending too much time myself in my breeders loft. I have 8 squabs and it's more first time with them (for my tipplers) and I'm all interest in how the colors are turning out and what not haha and I need to start holding myself back from going in there so often. Also it's better for the breeders if you leave them alone more.


Haha I know exactly what you mean. Sometimes I think mine get annoyed if I don't leave them alone. I'm like a kid in a candy store.

On a side note, I probably need to get my hands on some wooden eggs because my birds are laying and I don't want any young right now. I've read somewhere on here that it is hard on the hens if you remove the eggs without replacing them with artificial.


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## rzimm001 (Aug 23, 2011)

Well, I decided to open the door this morning and take the plunge. I had car trouble last night and missed last nights feeding. I figured the birds would be good and hungry. Started off with the door open and a few kernels of food by the door. At first they were confused but then about ten of them took flight. It was quite spectacular. I called them back with food in the loft and managed to recover all but three. Some had to be walked back in because they couldn't find the door. My dropper is on top of the pen and the other two are on the roof of my house. Not sure what to do at this point other than give them some time to return down to the pen. I realise now that I need a partition in my pen because I cannot leave the door open without the others going back outside. Any suggestions for recovering my last three birds at the present moment?


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

It can take them a couple days to figure out the door. You will just have to grab them when it get dark. Sounds like it went pretty good.


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## rzimm001 (Aug 23, 2011)

Print Tippler said:


> It can take them a couple days to figure out the door. You will just have to grab them when it get dark. Sounds like it went pretty good.


Well that's good to hear. I'm new to this of course, so I wasn't quite sure what to expect. Ultimately I got them all back in the pen. It took a lot of persuasion as there were a few stragglers who wouldn't come down from the roof. Like you said, they didn't quite recognize the door as an entry point even though that's how they got out. On a positive note, the birds seemed anxious to try and get back out after I fed them. I think they enjoyed the exercise. Furthermore, I checked on them at 6pm and they were all roosting and acting less timid to my presence. I think they are tired from their first release.

I might try to build a partition in the pen to make recovery and seperation easier. Perhaps in another week I'll let them go another round.


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## rzimm001 (Aug 23, 2011)

Seems my highflyers and doneks are starting to learn the door, though I always get a straggler or two that can't figure out where the door is. I'm not nervous about letting them out anymore as I've been able to recover all my birds up to this point. Now I want to work on improving flight times and motivation. At first their apprehension about a new location seemed to keep them up longer. However, now they are becoming more comfortable and either won't come out the door or if they do, they only fly for a couple minutes up to roof top altitudes before landing. Any suggestions? I'm tried flying them a little less hungry this week so they would be more motivated to stay out but I'm thinking it's not having the desired effect. What is the best way to provoke your birds to leave the loft and then of course to stay up longer? Thanks


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

Oh, there is a lot hat goes into it. Its like being a marathon runner. If they weren't flown before they will need to build up there strength.


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## rzimm001 (Aug 23, 2011)

So your suggestion would be to continue onward as I am doing. How many flight sessions a week would be appropriate? Can I fly them everyday or is that it a bit much?


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

I can't really say, I fly my birds everyday when im home. I'm sometimes not home for a week and they are not flown. I'm still looking into good training. Some people say feed barley but I'm not infavor of the practice


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Nothing to do with training them, but one of the things I would seriously think about is the safety of your enclosure.
I think thats what spirit wings was thinking too when she mentioned snakes !!!
The chicken wire mesh on your exterior frames is definately not safe against predators, and the size of the mesh will also let snakes & mice in.
Chicken wire is very flimsy and weakens very quickly with the weather.
Its original use is mainly just to keep chickens confined to one area, not to keep predators out and the interior population safe.
Rodents and other prey will get through any weak spots very quickly, and once in will wreck havock with your birds.

Much better and safer to use 1/2 hardware cloth.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

I'm not going to add any advise about free flying because I don't fly my birds. 
But I am going to warn you to be careful about that chicken wire. Rodents (rats, mice, raccoons and snakes among other things) can get thru that. I lost half the birds in my old loft because of chicken wire  Also, mice can get in and their droppings carry salmonella, making your birds very sick.
That is a very nice loft, and I would consider putting 1/2 inch hardware mesh on it.


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## rzimm001 (Aug 23, 2011)

Thank you for the advice. The birds seem to have gotten a little less skidish over the past few weeks. They're not quite as tame as some birds but progress has definitely been made.

Over the past few weeks I've been trying to work with the birds in a routine fashion. I got my first series of tumbles out of one of the highflyers last weeks, but haven't seen *any* tricks beyond that. After doing some reading I started feeding my birds a pigeon feed from my local farm supply store. In addition I've been feeding them prior to flying them and have tried working with teams of five or fewer. Some of the birds are reaching rather impressive altitudes. I can tell I'm on the right track. Only thing is, no spins, or dives yet out of the doneks  I'm not sure what I should try. They are not young birds and were previously owned by an avid pigeon flyer. The only thing I can say is, I think they may be molting as they are producing a large amount of feathers on the ground. Furthermore, I noticed the birds panting after they come down from a ten minute flight (perhaps normal?) They always have access to water and bird bath. I feed them mostly in the morning with a light snack in the evening if they've eaten everything from their AM feed. Any comments on encourageing some spings/spirals/diving?


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