# Is Swapping around mates ok or is it cruel?



## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

I was just wondering if someone could explain to me the risks with taking away a pigeons' mate and giving it another mate instead. Can it traumatise the birds? Does it usually work out?

I'd really appreciate your advice!


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

keepers who do this usually are breeders of show birds or racing pigeons, they try out different matings to get different results. IMO, if you do not have good reason it is easier to leave them with their chosen mate. I do not know if they suffer as like a human would but they do get a bit stressed when they do not have their mate around or are seperated from them.. but a hen bird may appreciate the seperation or break so she can rest..but put back with her mate at some point. They tend to find a new one without much problems if their original mate was lost or died and there is no way they can be a pair again.. also, if the original mate is still in the loft , trying to pair with another will be difficult if they can see their old mate. so the original mate would have to be secured some place where they can not see each other. ..and that IMO does cause stress, how much is unknown as we can't read their minds. to watch them is all we have and they do get stressed some. , but it fades pretty quick if a new one is introduced, and then they are back at doing what they do..mating and nesting and cooing and all those things.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I agree with the above post, it all depends on different situations.

I do believe they do stress if they are seperated and can still see each other, but a break is very good-the hen needs time to build up her calcium reserves as well as get a much needed rest, as long as it is done right. 

I think it is cruel to keep the hens mating all year long and laying eggs, they are not built like chickens to constintantly lay eggs, they need a break also after having a few rounds of chicks.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Thanks a lot Spirit wings! 

I have two mated pairs of rescued ferals living with me at the moment, and only really two of the birds are especially suited to captivity (ie they don't like being outside & they just come back inside if I let them out)

But those two belong to different mates. I was thinking of keeping just those two and releasing their mates because they are older and wilder. But they are so in love with their mates , its not an easy decision to make


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Skyeking said:


> I agree with the above post, it all depends on different situations.
> 
> I do believe they do stress if they are seperated and can still see each other, but a break is very good-the hen needs time to build up her calcium reserves as well as get a much needed rest, as long as it is done right.
> 
> I think it is cruel to keep the hens mating all year long and laying eggs, they are not built like chickens to constintantly lay eggs, they need a break also after having a few rounds of chicks.


Thankyou Skyeking,

May i ask you, when you let the hen have a break, is she is kept out of sight of her mate ? How long do you normally give her a break?


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## Lefty07 (Dec 30, 2009)

*Splitting them up and resting*

I only have doves but I assume pigeons are the same. If you cannot get the pair to stop breeding (laying eggs), you might have to physically separate the female from the male. They will _act_ like they miss each other terribly - constantly calling for eachother - and you may feel guilty. But the female really needs to rest and stop egg laying. I think 6 months is a good amount of time for resting her. _Sometimes_ you can stop them from breeding if you just remove the nest and then, in that case, they can stay together.

You can build up the female's calcium levels by offering her crushed oyster shell, cuttlebone, and crushed (sterilized) egg-shells. There are also calcium supplements, like Calciboost that are added to the water. All of these are available in pet bird stores on-line. If using a water supplement, be careful not to overdo it as they can actually get too much calcium that way, if they get that as their only water 7 days a week for more than a few weeks. Better to offer it 3 days a week or something. But the _non-liquid _supplements (oyster shell, etc) are no problem and can be left for your birds to have all the time.

I would also agree that it will be difficult to re-pair your 4 pigeons if both pairs can still see each other. If you can remove the pair you don't want to keep and just keep the pair you want, they should settle down eventually with each other. But it might be best to cage the 2 birds (who will form the new pair) separately so they get used to each other first.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Hi Lefty,

Is that 6 months per year that you'd separate the mated pairs to rest the hens? It seems like a long time for them to be without their mates , to me as a breeding noob, I mean. Are there other options (apart from the one you mentioned about removing the nest boxes)?


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## Lefty07 (Dec 30, 2009)

*Separation time*

I am not an expert on pigeons. I am just talking from my knowledge raising pet birds in general. I know that with finches and parrot family birds, you want to limit breeding to specific season - as they would breed in nature - and then limit them to 2 -3 clutches a year.

Some pigeons and doves in captivity often seem ready to breed year round, non-stop. So my point was, if you can't stop the female from laying eggs, you might want to separate the pair. But, by far, the best option is to get them to stop breeding (get out of "breeding mode") and still leave them together. 

I just know, with my doves (both Ringneck and Diamond Doves), it has been hard to stop them from laying some time. Often, after I remove the nest, they will lay eggs in food dishes or even the bare cage floor, as long as the pairs are together. Over time, this is hard on the females and can shorten their lifespans. You can actually sometimes feel the egg shell quality deteriorate as the females expend so much calcium in egg production. So I am saying, as a last resort, you can consider separating them. But hopefully, they will stop once the nest has been removed (try that first). 

And if they lay in their food bowls, sometimes putting a rock or other object that makes it impossible to sit in there, will discourage egg laying. Another thing to discourage them might be more out of cage time or some sort of daytime-only flight pen, where they can get their minds on something else.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Thanks heaps for your suggestions , Lefty. Its breeding season here in Australia and so I've yet to see if my pigeons will try to lay eggs all year round. If they do I'll try all the things you suggested.


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

Earlier I have experienced a pair laying all around the year which resulted in unhatched eggs, babies with diseases, some also died in early age

So if you are sepearting the pair for good reason, i guess its OKey

I dont let my YBs mate freely with any bird they like but pair them as i want/require so that no swapping is required 

Birds really get stressed when seperated from their mates and even more when offered with another one


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Bella_F said:


> Thanks a lot Spirit wings!
> 
> I have two mated pairs of rescued ferals living with me at the moment, and only really two of the birds are especially suited to captivity (ie they don't like being outside & they just come back inside if I let them out)
> 
> But those two belong to different mates. I was thinking of keeping just those two and releasing their mates because they are older and wilder. But they are so in love with their mates , its not an easy decision to make


The only thing I can think of is the ones that you do keep are going to miss their mates and usually they do tend to be happier IMO with one. but if these two do not have their mates because they were released they may pair up if they are the only two left..if they are two cock birds then they may act out in different ways as mother nature tells them to find a mate. I find it easier to keep pairs, as they have something to do, and the loft or where ever you keep your pigeons stays more stress free.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Thanks heaps for sharing your experiences with me, it really helped me to make a decision. I decided to let them stay with the mates they picked out for themselves & work around that.


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