# what should be the dose of Virkons in drinking water



## nishub

Hello friends can anyone help me-i have to give the Virkons to my 50 birds but i dont know the doses for it(i am giveing this coz i think that some of my pigeons are suffering from cocidisis ).So can any one help me about thin that how much should i use for about 50 pigeons in how much of water.
Thanks & regards
Nishub


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## Dobato

nishub said:


> Hello friends can anyone help me-i have to give the Virkons to my 50 birds but i dont know the doses for it(i am giveing this coz i think that some of my pigeons are suffering from cocidisis ).So can any one help me about thin that how much should i use for about 50 pigeons in how much of water.
> Thanks & regards
> Nishub


Nishub, are you talking about "Virkon S", as this is a surface disinfectant and not meant for internal use (I have and use this product, by the way). I know there are some anecdotal reports of fanciers using a tiny concentration for suspected sour crop issues, (not recommended by the Dupont, the manufacturer, by the way). If you have this product I would advise using it as Dupont intended, as surface disinfectant, not for internal use in your pigeons. Where are you located, as there any number of safe, proven medicines that will be a much better choice for your birds, as they will work and not kill them.

Also, what makes you think your birds may have coccidiosis, where they diagnosed through a fecal exam, or are you just going by that they have loose droppings? Can you post up a photo of the droppings, any other symptoms?

Karyn


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## nishub

*thanks friend*

First of all thanks for the suggestion & secondly yes some of my birds have the loose droping but the main prob is that most of them are facing Muscle Wasting and muscle(flesh) around the keel bone lookes like to appear outside.i am from india and here are not such madicines for the pigeons are not available here,someone have told me to give the virkon s to them but could not tell me the dose.& the secondly they dont eat much and stands in a corner of the loft & there is a"seed" near the anus/vent .Dobato i am very disturb about that what to do i could not understand.is that muscle wasting or coccidiosis???i cant understand.PLZ HELP


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## Dobato

Nishub, I have helped a number of people from you country, India, and while there may not be a lot medicine readily available for pigeons, many of the same medicines that are used for humans will work, and are used, in the treatment and health of pigeons. I want you to go to a local drug store and ask for a medicine called Trimethoprim/Sulfa (aka - Septra, Bactrim, Sulfatrim and Cotrimoxazole). In comes in a few different strength of pills (see if you can get the double strength ones -DS you will need about 12 DS pill or 25 regular strength pills to treat 50 birds for 7-10 days), you will also need a 1cc syringe (the kind without an attached needle - must be a 1cc one). 

The medicine I am suggesting will treat for coccidiosis, plus it will treat for salmonella, E. Coli and a number of other bacterial infections that can affect pigeons. In my opinion, this may be a good idea in case you are mistaken and they don't have coccidiosis, but bacterial issues. Let me know when you pick up the meds and what form and strength it is in and I will help you with dosing. If you have some bird that are in worse condition that the rest, we can treat those individually and the rest by water treatment.

Karyn


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## nishub

thanks again bro you really have a very helping nature i will go for that medicine can amprolium powder will works in that,& plz tell me the dose/litter in the water of that medicine you have told.
Thanks & regards


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## Dobato

nishub said:


> thanks again bro you really have a very helping nature i will go for that medicine can amprolium powder will works in that,& plz tell me the dose/litter in the water of that medicine you have told.
> Thanks & regards


The Amprolium you mention will work (need to be careful with dose amounts) to treat for coccidiosis, but coccidiosis only, if you are wrong and it's a different infection this medicine will not help, that why I am suggesting you use the Trimethoprim/Sulfa. I will need to know the strength of the medicine you get before I can suggest how much to use.

Karyn


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## nishub

Yes friend i have got the medicines you have mantained thats co-trimoxazole(double strainth) tab,now what to do with it,one more thing i have bowel for their water drinking in which(less then 4 litter) water comes.& i have 49 birds.so plz tell me the dose.
 Thanks & regards
Nishub


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## nishub

And one more thing bro what should be the amount of Neomycin sulphate and doxycycline powder (combination),& Amprolium powder for one pigeon & how long it should be treated to a sick bird.


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## Dobato

nishub said:


> Yes friend i have got the medicines you have mantained thats co-trimoxazole(double strainth) tab,now what to do with it,one more thing i have bowel for their water drinking in which(less then 4 litter) water comes.& i have 49 birds.so plz tell me the dose.
> Thanks & regards
> Nishub


Nishub, you will take two of the Co-Trimoxazole DS pills and grind them up into as very fine a powder as you can, please be very careful when doing this none of the powder goes astray. I want you to get a clean 4 liter plastic container and add the powder inside after grinding, and then add 1 liter of very warm water. Shake this very well for a few minutes, then let rest a few minutes, shake well again, then add 2 liters more of tap water, shake well again, let rest for a few minutes, shake once more, then add the last liter of water in, shake well and dispense this medicated water to you birds. Start with 7 days, make sure they can not get any other water but this medicated water.

Please let us know how things go,

Karyn


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## Dobato

nishub said:


> And one more thing bro what should be the amount of Neomycin sulphate and doxycycline powder (combination),& Amprolium powder for one pigeon & how long it should be treated to a sick bird.


Would need to know what the name of this product is and the concentrations of each med in it. Start with the Trimethoprim/Sulfa first, as it will treat most of the very same issues that the med you mention above will.

Karyn


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## nishub

Thanks a lots bro it will be more then help for me and i will inform you defiantly about the results,let me clear one thing -after desolving the tabs in one litter of warm water i have to mix the water of normal temp in two steps or what do you mean by tap water?
and plz tell me what should be the dose of it for a single pigeon?
and about those two medicines-the Neomycin sulphate and doxycycline powder (combination) has been used for sour crop(in India it has been sold by the name of neodox fort powder.and the other amprolium you know your self well.
Friend i wants to know the correct amount of those powders for a single bird.
And plz let me know that if any pigeon have confermed one of these decases then should i use the Co-Trimoxazole DS tab or i should use those powders and if i should use Co-Trimoxazole DS then what should be the dose to a single bird.
Regards
Nishub


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## Dobato

Sorry, if I was not clear enough. What I meant by "tap water" was that after the first warm water liter, to help dissolve the medicine into solution, the other 3 liters can be just the regular water you use everyday, no need to warm or do anything with it.

For individual dosing, you will take one of the Co-Trimoxazole DS tablets and cut it evenly in half, and put 1/2 away. The other 1/2 I want you to grind into as very fine a powder as you can, I use a shot-glass and the end of a kitchen knife the has a rounded end on it. After it is finely ground/powdered, I want you to add into this powder 10mL of honey (10mL = 2 teaspoons, but you must use a measuring teaspoon used for baking, scape spoon out well). Stir the powdered Trimethoprim/Sulfa and honey together well, cover and let sit 20 minutes, stir well again and you will have a 4.8% Co-Trimoxazole suspension to dose with.

Dosing for most meds is based on the body weight of a bird, if you have no way to weight a bird, if you use 300g for an adult as a place to start with, as I know birds in you neck of the woods tend to be smaller in body mass than over here, this will cover you for a bird that could weigh somewhat less ,or more, while still being effective and safe in your dosing.

You will want to give 0.10cc (the first line on a 1cc syringe, about 2 drops) for every 100g of body weight, so the 300g bird mentioned above would get 0.30cc (third line on a 1cc syringe and about 6 drops), this is given every 12 hours. You will place one drop at a time into the mouth and let the bird tongue the medicine down. Keep suspension in the refrigerator between use, and stir well each time you use it, You can get a 1cc syringe, the kind without an attached needle, at any drug store.

I am not comfortable advising on dosing on your other med, as I do not know this medicine, but will say that Neomycin is not used a lot for a few reasons one is toxicity concerns and the other is that it's not a good choice for systemic infections.

Have you ever seen any evidence of worms in you pigeon's droppings, or have you ever wormed you birds, if yes, was it productive, did they pass out any worms?

Good luck with them,

Karyn


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## nishub

Thanks again& again Karyn
first of all i have to tell you that i dont have the short breeds.i have only fancy imported breeds like bookhra,jacobian,lahors,frillback,fantails,& runts and all of them are big birds and i can weight the bird so i will do the same as/weight you have told me & plz tell me should i deworm my pigeon before providing them the medicines?
I have the albandazole vet medicine as the dewormer should i use it ?or what should i use to deworm my pigeons?
plz tell me what do you use if you see the clear sign of coccidiosis or sour crop & what should be the dose for a single bird & how long it should be administrated to the pigeon.
And friend i have a second problum also-i have bought a pair of bookhara trumpeter from the market about 3 months ago but the mail does not have any interest to cross his girl, he does not even kiss his femail(as the other pairs match their mouth before their maiting) with his girl what should i do.is he a non fertile mail?can he be treated?they are very2 cute & pure breed pigeons & i wants to see their child.


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## Paragon Loft

i agreed with dobato about using the right medicin,i also wanted to try virkon s but im not sure,if you go to the web site of mclaughlin lofts he got some info about it and the dose thats were i first learn about this product.


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## nishub

Yes peragon i am also agreed with him & thats why i am obeying his instructions but Karyan there is a very big problem that is that Co-Trimoxazole DS tablets are highly & absolutely non soluble in water not even in very warm water,i had boiled the water and then shaked it after putting the tabs powder in it more then 15 times but in the end it always sits down in the container an i am very worried about that wether it will be took by the pigeons or not so is there any soluble form of this medicine or not if there is then kindly guide me plz.


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## Dobato

nishub said:


> Yes peragon i am also agreed with him & thats why i am obeying his instructions but Karyan there is a very big problem that is that Co-Trimoxazole DS tablets are highly & absolutely non soluble in water not even in very warm water,i had boiled the water and then shaked it after putting the tabs powder in it more then 15 times but in the end it always sits down in the container an i am very worried about that wether it will be took by the pigeons or not so is there any soluble form of this medicine or not if there is then kindly guide me plz.


Nishub, the Co-Trimoxazole tablets you have should be of the same active ingredient as the Bird-Sulfa tablets we have here (Trimethoprim/Sulfa) and I know the Bird-Sulfa pills easily dissolve in water. I am not entirely sure why the tablets you have do not want to go into solution. There is the possibility the tablets you have are processed differently during their manufacture, as perhaps it is cheaper not to refine the drug in a way that would make it readily dissolvable in water, as it is thought the whole pill is to be taken orally.

If the Co-Trimoxazole DS tablets you have will not go into solution you can not give it to your birds this way, as the dosing will be not consistent. What you can do is make the suspension I gave you instructions for earlier for individual birds and start dosing any single birds you find to be in the most need of treatment. Then speak with your pharmacist about this problem as Trimethoprim/Sulfa from a different company may go into solution, plus, they also do make a Trimethoprim/Sulfa ready made suspension (240mg/5mL) that you could ask the pharmacist to test right at the drug store in a little water to see if it goes into solution, if it does, we can also use the suspension for your birds. You would need 10mL of suspension for every liter of water, so roughly 40mL a gallon.

Karyn


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## Dobato

nishub said:


> I have the albandazole vet medicine as the dewormer should i use it ?or what should i use to deworm my pigeons?


Nishub, I don't advise using the Albendazole you have as it is toxic to pigeons, see if you can find Pyrantel Pamoate. Another forum member in Bangladesh says there is a brand name there called "Delentin" Pyrantel Pamoate and each ml contains 50mg Pyrantel. Ask your pharmacist for help with this as well. Also another brand name for Pyrantel in your area of the world is called "Melphin" (same 50mg/mL).

http://www.birdmedicine.org/

Karyn


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## nishub

Hi Karyn
I have got a suspension & it is co-trimoxazole oral suspension IP.will it help,it has (trimethoprim IP-40mg & sulphamethoxazole IP-200mg) in each 5ml.the name of the product is septran padiatric suspension.what should be its dose for all of my pigeons ?
Should i mix it in warm water first then in the rest cold water or what to do ?
plz let me know
Thanks & regards
Nishub


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## nishub

And one more thing friend-what should be the dose of this co-trimoxazole oral suspension IP for a single bird of about 100 grams waight/as i will calculate the dose/100 grams of the body waight of the pigeon.


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## Dobato

nishub said:


> Hi Karyn
> I have got a suspension & it is co-trimoxazole oral suspension IP.will it help,it has (trimethoprim IP-40mg & sulphamethoxazole IP-200mg) in each 5ml.the name of the product is septran padiatric suspension.what should be its dose for all of my pigeons ?
> Should i mix it in warm water first then in the rest cold water or what to do ?
> plz let me know
> Thanks & regards
> Nishub



Nishub, the amount of the suspension to each liter of water will be 10mL (this is 2 teaspoons, you must use a cooking measuring spoon to be exact). Just make 1 liter to confirm the suspension will mix better into solution than the Co-Trimoxazole pills did. Once you see it works well then just make up enough to water your birds each day. No need to use warm water just use regular water.

Karyn


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## Dobato

nishub said:


> And one more thing friend-what should be the dose of this co-trimoxazole oral suspension IP for a single bird of about 100 grams waight/as i will calculate the dose/100 grams of the body waight of the pigeon.


The ready made suspension will actually be the same strength as the instructions I gave you yesterday for making 1/2 of the Co-Trimoxazole DS tablets into a suspension (48mg/mL), you will give 0.10cc (first line on a 1cc syringe) for every 100g of a bird's body weight. By the way, you will be fine making the pills into a suspension, they will be safe as the honey will keep the particles evenly distributed once stirred for safe dosing, the problem with the pills was they would not go into solution in plain water.

Karyn


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## nishub

Thanks again bro 
Now can you suggest any solution about my second prob that is about the bookhra pair.i have just talk to the person from which i have bought this pair & he has confermed me that this is a breeding pair & has laid the chicks twice.And they have mait once at my home but about 2.5 months ago but did not lay the eggs.since then they are not even mait,and spacially the mail does not looks interested for sex.tho i haveseen many times that the female tryes to touch his mouth by her but he still sits without noticing her activities.they are eating well & their droping is also very normal.and one more thing the male makes a loud sound whenever he enters in his caze.And i can not understand what should i do for this problum,plz give me some of your valuable advice
thanks & regards
Nishub


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## Dobato

nishub said:


> Thanks again bro
> Now can you suggest any solution about my second prob that is about the bookhra pair.i have just talk to the person from which i have bought this pair & he has confermed me that this is a breeding pair & has laid the chicks twice.And they have mait once at my home but about 2.5 months ago but did not lay the eggs.since then they are not even mait,and spacially the mail does not looks interested for sex.tho i haveseen many times that the female tryes to touch his mouth by her but he still sits without noticing her activities.they are eating well & their droping is also very normal.and one more thing the male makes a loud sound whenever he enters in his caze.And i can not understand what should i do for this problum,plz give me some of your valuable advice
> thanks & regards
> Nishub


Nishub, the question you are asking has more to do with breeding and is not a strong area of knowledge for me. If she were laying infertile eggs, I would suggest making sure their vent area feathers are trimmed back so there is good contact, but I am not sure why the cock has seemed to lose interest. Try posting your question in this section of the forum, those guys over there really have a wealth of knowledge on breeding and raising pigeons:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f14/

Good luck,

Karyn


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## nishub

Hi karyn
First of all i would like to say you sorry as if you are a girl coz i have read some where that you are & i have called you bro many times in this thread lol,now i have a bigger problem this time so i need your advise badly.i have told you that i have bookhra pigeons & amoung them there is a pure white female who is my darling. every day i gives her a spacial look as she is fine or not. but today there is a big problem with her-she had lost her mate two months ago & i have bought a very beautiful male for her two days ago.today when i reeles them from their cage,i saw her drooping was very dark green loos motions( not like water but it was some thick),after sometime i saw a vomit(not sure but think that she have done it).after sometime she had some drooping again & this time it was thicker but still whole was very dark green.& after 10 minuts she had drooping again it was a whitish waterlike poop with same greenish lines.i could not understand what to do but give her the enrofloxocine 10 % oral solution -4 drops.before vomit(if she had done this) she had eaten some food.and after some time she again has eaten.but she went at a corner and sitted there.
Keryan plz suggest me wether it looks PMV or Sour crop.what should i give her as the mad
one she had got some rain water droops on her body yesterday is it the coz of that breakout?plz help my lovely one.what medicine should i give her?
Regards
nishub


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## Dobato

nishub said:


> Hi karyn
> First of all i would like to say you sorry as if you are a girl coz i have read some where that you are & i have called you bro many times in this thread lol,now i have a bigger problem this time so i need your advise badly.i have told you that i have bookhra pigeons & amoung them there is a pure white female who is my darling. every day i gives her a spacial look as she is fine or not. but today there is a big problem with her-she had lost her mate two months ago & i have bought a very beautiful male for her two days ago.today when i reeles them from their cage,i saw her drooping was very dark green loos motions( not like water but it was some thick),after sometime i saw a vomit(not sure but think that she have done it).after sometime she had some drooping again & this time it was thicker but still whole was very dark green.& after 10 minuts she had drooping again it was a whitish waterlike poop with same greenish lines.i could not understand what to do but give her the enrofloxocine 10 % oral solution -4 drops.before vomit(if she had done this) she had eaten some food.and after some time she again has eaten.but she went at a corner and sitted there.
> Keryan plz suggest me wether it looks PMV or Sour crop.what should i give her as the mad
> one she had got some rain water droops on her body yesterday is it the coz of that breakout?plz help my lovely one.what medicine should i give her?
> Regards
> nishub


Nishub, don't worry about the name, I knew your intent .

I would isolate her to start and also start her on the individual oral doing following the instructions I gave you earlier on making 1/2 a Co-Trimoxazole tablet into a suspension to dose by mouth, as mentioned 0.10cc for every 100g of body weight, every 12 hours (plain water of course in her cage no medicated water). After you dose her I would like you to go and pick up two other medicines, one is called Metronidazole and the other is called Nystatin. There are times when vomiting can be a sign of canker (trichomoniasis) in the crop and/or yeast (Candida Albicans) in the crop, the Metronidazole will treat for canker and the Nystatin for yeast.

The Metronidazole most likely will be in a pill form and while the Nystatin can also come in pill for, it is best if you get the suspension form (liquid), a few names it may be called are Nystatin Oral Suspension, Nilstat, Devnyst, Priminyst and Mycosyl. Please let me know the strength of the meds you picked up and I will help you will dosing.

Also, while at the pharmacy, maybe you can also see if the have the Pyrantel Pamoate mentioned a few days ago, aka, "Delentin" "Melphin" (50mg/mL).

Can you post up a photo of the bird and of her droppings?


Good luck,

Karyn


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## nishub

Thanks very much friend
but does she not has the simptomes of sour crop diseases.


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## Dobato

nishub said:


> Thanks very much friend
> but does she not has the simptomes of sour crop diseases.


For the most part, I agree with your statement, but without being able to run certain tests, we have to be sensitive to what the bird is telling us. Once a bird has vomited, it's prudent to consider there also may be issues with the crop/GI, so by adding the Metronidazole for canker and Nystatin for yeast through the GI tract, we will at least know we are covering these possibilities.

Karyn


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## nishub

Hi Karyn
yesterday i gave her only enrofloxocine 10% oral solution & nothing ales.and when today in the morning i went to see her,there was no sign of loosmotions there was perfact binded poop like the normal ones but was shaded green with white(more was green),no vomiting,she was active too.but i did not repeat enerocine today & give her the Co-Trimoxazole suspension .4 cc/ml.As per your directions and give her plain water & food which she eat some.
now should i give her enrofloxocine with Co-Trimoxazole,or i should stop it & give only Co-Trimoxazole.and one more fr how many days should i give her Co-Trimoxazole & should multivitamines be given to her or not.


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## Dobato

nishub said:


> Hi Karyn
> yesterday i gave her only enrofloxocine 10% oral solution & nothing ales.and when today in the morning i went to see her,there was no sign of loosmotions there was perfact binded poop like the normal ones but was shaded green with white(more was green),no vomiting,she was active too.but i did not repeat enerocine today & give her the Co-Trimoxazole suspension .4 cc/ml.As per your directions and give her plain water & food which she eat some.
> now should i give her enrofloxocine with Co-Trimoxazole,or i should stop it & give only Co-Trimoxazole.and one more fr how many days should i give her Co-Trimoxazole & should multivitamines be given to her or not.


Nishub, part of trying to figure out, without tests, what meds to administer to a bird that are treating for an infection is based on their response to the meds you are giving. If you say you administered the Enrofloxacin and your bird appears to have responded positively to it, then I would advise you to continue with it and hold off on the Co-Trimoxazole for now. Monitor her closely that she continues to improve, if you at anytime you feel her conditioning is reversing, then I would switch to the Co-Trimoxazole. Also, keep an eye out for any further regurgitation issues, if she does throw back up food again, then I think you should consider starting the Metronidazole and Nystatin, as well as the Baytril to her treatment.

Also, could you please let us know the dosing you are giving your bird of the 10% Enrofloxacin (how much and how often, do you have a weight for her?).

Karyn


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## nishub

Hey why not
I had waight her & she is about 420 grms.i gave her 4 drops of the solution yesterday & today i gave her 4 cc co-trimoxazole solution.And friend i am thinking that i should give at lest 2 more days to cotrimoxazole for the response and if the girl dont recover then i will switch back to enrocine(or i will do what you will say so plz tell me about this) coz some of my locale friends always says that enrocine is a very hard drug and can be damaging to pigeons(tho i am using it from last one year & didnt find such a thing).
And one more q plz-after the two days of starting to give co-trimoxazole as a mass mad to all of my pigeons in the drinking water i am seaing a yelloish shade(means brown with pale with dark cream) in the poops of all of my pigeons it that normal ? is it due to the madicine i am giving to them in water ?
Waiting for your answer 
Nishant(nishub)


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## Dobato

Nishub, part of the reason that your friends may think that the Enrofloxacin is hard on pigeons is that they are over dosing their birds with it. The correct dosing for Enrocine (Enrofloxacin) is 20mg/kg QD (once a day). This means for your bird that you say weighs 420g, she should get 8.2mg once a day, the 4 drops you gave her will equal 20mg, so a little over twice what she should get. It is not a huge problem using a bit of larger dose for the first dose, then going down in other doses, so I would suggest any more doses of the 10% Enrocine be 2 drops (10mg) a more appropriate dose for her weight (think of each drop equals 5mg, when you use 10% strength).

Giving the Enrocine and the Co-Trimoxazole together will be too much medicine, as these two drugs are used to target many of the same bacteria and while there is only a small note of a conflict between them, it it not a common combination of drugs to give together.

Can you post up a photo of the droppings?

Karyn


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## nishub

Karyn
since my cam is not working properly so sorry i cant post but as i told you its pale cremish with brown in colour & looks loose.is it the primary effact of co-trimoxazole or there is something went wrong?


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## Dobato

nishub said:


> Karyn
> since my cam is not working properly so sorry i cant post but as i told you its pale cremish with brown in colour & looks loose.is it the primary effact of co-trimoxazole or there is something went wrong?


Nishub, while this is not some thing I have seen in my own birds when using Trimethoprim/Sulfa, or other birds, a friend did did mentioned something similar in a bird they where treating the bird was moved to Ciprofloxacin (kind of the human equivalent of Enrofloxacin) and the the droppings did return to a more normal color in a day or two. Since you are concerned about this, and they have been on the Trimethoprim/Sulfa 3 days, long enough to at least address any cocci issues, I am going to suggest we move you birds from the Co-Trimoxazole to the 10% Enrocine you have, the dose will be 2mL of the 10% Enrocine to 1 liter of water.

Karyn


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## nishub

Ok mam
i will do as you have suggested
Thanks
Nishant


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## nishub

Hello Keryn
One more thing-should multivitamins also be given when we gives the enrofloxocine to the pigeons.
some one have told me once that if you are giving enrofl... in the morning then in the evening you should give the multivitamins same dose in the water.will it be correct or i should give only enrocine for first 7=10 days then i should start vitamins for the same days?
Nishant


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## Dobato

I can tell you what I do. I generally do not supplement a bird I am treating with multivitamins while on antibiotics, I have been told that the same bacteria that we are trying to eradicate may also benefit from them. This is just anecdotal thought from some I respect, so because the treatment courses are short, I myself will wait until after treatment, then supplement with both multivitamins and probiotics.

Karyn


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## nishub

Karyn i will NOT give any thank to you in future because you are so helpful to me that this sentence looks boring now(& non sufficient also).
now plz tell me that which kind of water should i provide for my pigeons for drinking.I was giving them the (submercibal pump) water which has been sucked directly from the earth from aprox 80 feet depth,but now some of my friends from india are telling me not to use that water coz there may be some dangerous bacterias in the water which have been taken directly from the earth & not been treated.so from past 4-5 days i have started to use a water purifier(Not R.O but the simple 3 layer one)for filtering their drinking water.
should i continew that or should i give them the fresh earth water.


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## Dobato

Nishub, you can use this water and feel safer by adding bleach to it. The amount would be 8 drops (.40cc) a gallon (4 liters). When I say bleach, I mean common household laundry bleach (Sodium Hypochlorite Solution). For the amount of drops I said to add, the bleach must be at the 5-6% concentration level (it should say this on the laundry bleach bottle label and must be the plain kind, not scented, and sodium hypochlorite and nothing else, a common brand here would be Clorox). You add the drops, shake the water, let it sit 30 minutes and then use. Do not use any thing with iodine to substitute for bleach, as iodine, even in very small amounts will upset a bird's endocrine system. Any questions, just ask, also, if at the store you find a bleach product/solution and have any doubts, I will be happy to have a look at it for you.

Karyn


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## nishub

Karyan
I have bought a fabric whitener.Is manufacturer is unilever ltd.and the main ingredients is-sodium hypochlorite 4% max,sodium hydroxide 1%max & amine oxide 1% max.so how is that ?If ok then what the dose should be ?


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## Dobato

nishub said:


> Karyan
> I have bought a fabric whitener.Is manufacturer is unilever ltd.and the main ingredients is-sodium hypochlorite 4% max,sodium hydroxide 1%max & amine oxide 1% max.so how is that ?If ok then what the dose should be ?


Nishub, look around again, as I mentioned, we do not want anything but Sodium Hypochlorite Solution in the bottle. We do not want the Sodium Hydroxide or the Amine Oxide. Try and find a bottle that says bleach, not fabric whitener. If what you find is outside of the 5-6% Sodium Hypochlorite Solution concentration I mention before, we can adjust the amount of drops up or down, but again, only Sodium Hypochlorite Solution.

Karyn


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## nishub

Karyn
would you plz tell me what mad do you use for the diseases SOUR CROP.what is the name of the salt of that mad & what is the dose/gallon and what should be the dose for an individual pigeon?
And plz tell that how to deworm my pigeons,whate and how should i use for the devomation.


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## Dobato

nishub said:


> Karyn
> would you plz tell me what mad do you use for the diseases SOUR CROP.what is the name of the salt of that mad & what is the dose/gallon and what should be the dose for an individual pigeon?
> And plz tell that how to deworm my pigeons,whate and how should i use for the devomation.


Nishub, sour crop is a common term used for the delayed emptying of the crop or a crop in "stasis". Many times this is caused by a yeast infection and sometimes bacteria, plus there are thoughts, that in pigeons, that canker is the root cause in instances of sour crop as canker in the crop blocks the passage of food making it easier for yeast and/or bacteria to take hold.

The first line of treatment would be trying an anti-fungal like Nystatin, I did already mention this medicine earlier to you, here is the post I made below. If the Nystatin was not effective, then things would need reevaluated as to what to try next.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=610651&postcount=25

For de-worming, again, I have already mentioned earlier in this thread what I would recommend using and once you got the medicine I would advise you on how much to use, once you confirmed what you got and its strength.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=610086&postcount=17 pp



> what is the name of the salt of that mad & what is the dose/gallon


I am not too sure what you are asking in the above statement, can you please clarify.

Karyn


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## nishub

Hello Karyan
i could not find the madicines you have told,i could find only Ivermectin oral solution,is it sufficient,what is the process of giving it to the pigeons.


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## Dobato

nishub said:


> Hello Karyan
> i could not find the madicines you have told,i could find only Ivermectin oral solution,is it sufficient,what is the process of giving it to the pigeons.


My preference would be for you to use Pyrantel Pamoate, what about these places:

http://www.cironpharma.com/products-liquid5.asp#Pyron

http://www.medguideindia.com/find_brand_by_samepid.php?similarpid=1068,1433,1673

http://www.medlineindia.com/antibiotic/pyrantel_pamoate.htm

http://www.medguideindia.com/show_b...type=1&searchcatagory=&pageNum=&search=Search (Nystatin)

Remember, you want a suspension (liquid) not pills.

Karyn


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## nishub

Hello karyn i have got the mad you had told now what should be its dose /gallon.it is pyrantel pamoate oral suspension ip.And plz that after first dose whenever i should repeat it.
As per you know that i have gave the Trimethoprim/Sulfa,for 4-5 days and after then i am giving them the enrofloxocine 10% oral solution from lats two days (and tough wood the things are appearing to become normal) the pooping and the activeness all is well now.so when & how should i give pyrantel pamoate to them as i am thinking for continew the enrocine for 4-5 days more.is that right or can go wrong?
regards
Nishant


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## Dobato

Nishub, best if you tell me the exact name of the product (Pyrantel) your bought and also need to know the strength, to advise on dosing. 

Glad things seem to be getting back to normal with them, I think it's best you finish the treatment with the Enrocine, 5 more days, and then de-worm using the Pyrantel, and I would give them a 2 day break between the medicines. So, finished the Enrocine treatment, wait 2 days, and then treat with the Pyrantel.

Karyn


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## nishub

Yes karyn
The name of the drug is-Pyrantel Pamoate oral suspension IP-Nimocid.and in each 5 ml it contains pyrantel pamoate IP equivaient to pyrantel 250 mg.plz tell me the dose as well the repeat dose in how many days.
as you have advised,i will continew the enrocine for 5 more days.
regards
Nishant


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## Dobato

nishub said:


> Yes karyn
> The name of the drug is-Pyrantel Pamoate oral suspension IP-Nimocid.and in each 5 ml it contains pyrantel pamoate IP equivaient to pyrantel 250 mg.plz tell me the dose as well the repeat dose in how many days.
> as you have advised,i will continew the enrocine for 5 more days.
> regards
> Nishant


Thanks for confirming the strength of the Pyrantel you purchased, it is at the common strength of 50mg/mL (5mL = 250mg). For flock dosing you will add 75mg (1.5mL, this is 1 1/2cc) to a gallon of water for 1-2 days as their only source of water. Repeat this in 14 days time.

For individual dosing to a single bird orally, this would require 2.5mg for every 100 grams of body weight. For example, this means that a bird weighing 300g would get 0.15cc (this is 7.5mg, between the first and second lines of a 1cc syringe) of the Pyrantel suspension you have, this is basically 3 drops. Like above, this dose is repeated in 14 days time.

The 50mg/mL strength of the Pyrantel suspension you have means that each 0.10cc has 5mg of pure medicine in it (so, 10 x 0.10cc = 1cc/mL or 50mg).

Karyn


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## nishub

But karyn
Dosing only 1.5 ml ? will it be sufficient ? is not it a very low dose? I mean 1.5 ml in aprox 4 litter water ?


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## Dobato

nishub said:


> But karyn
> Dosing only 1.5 ml ? will it be sufficient ? is not it a very low dose? I mean 1.5 ml in aprox 4 litter water ?


Nishub, the dosing I suggested for flock treatment was taken from a website providing information from a well known Pigeon Veterinarian, Dr. David Marx, I would trust his dosing instructions.

Karyn


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## nishub

Hii Karyan 
I am back with a new problum that i had bought a jacobine female from a marchant about 2 monthes ago but she is not well since then.tho she is eating very well and has gain waight too since i had bought her but her drooping is very dark green(not loosemotion) tho it is thick & bounded but very dark green even tho i am giving the enrofloxocine in water to all my pigeons in drinking water as your advice.but the colore of her poop did not changed i cant understand wether she is ill or not what to do ?
Regards
Nishant


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## Dobato

nishub said:


> Hii Karyan
> I am back with a new problum that i had bought a jacobine female from a marchant about 2 monthes ago but she is not well since then.tho she is eating very well and has gain waight too since i had bought her but her drooping is very dark green(not loosemotion) tho it is thick & bounded but very dark green even tho i am giving the enrofloxocine in water to all my pigeons in drinking water as your advice.but the colore of her poop did not changed i cant understand wether she is ill or not what to do ?
> Regards
> Nishant


Nishub, droppings can be very dark green/brown and be just fine, and because the interpretation of colors is so subjective, you are really going to have to post up a clear, photo of her droppings, so we can try and see exactly what you are describing.

Karyn


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## nishub




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## nishub

OK Karyn i have a new idea i will post them tomorow on my facebook profile & send the link to you.https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...658778608.53362.100001628259040&type=1&ref=nf


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## Dobato

nishub said:


> OK Karyn i have a new idea i will post them tomorow on my facebook profile & send the link to you.https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...658778608.53362.100001628259040&type=1&ref=nf


Nishub, here is how to post a photo directly to Pigeon-Talk. Do you think you could scrape the area she perches clean and post up a another photo of her fresh droppings, as the one on Facebook is not clear enough. 

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=525049&postcount=15

Karyn


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## nishub

*here is thst*

Hello karyn
i have (may be )learn how to do this & i will post the new snap tomorow
regards
Nishant


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## nishub

Yaahoo,i have done it,thanks to a friend i have never even see ;d


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## Dobato

Nishub, I am not seeing anything alarming in the color of this dropping, could be better formed, but it could have been stepped on. There are times a bird will eat one particular food item (like say peas, but could be anything), because that bird favors them, that may make the droppings look a bit different than other birds in the loft. You say she is eating well and has gained weight, but is not well. Can you describe why, outside of the droppings, you think she is not well. Plus, as I mentioned before, if you could scrape the area she perches and post up her over-night droppings, it may provide a more complete picture than a single dropping.

Karyn


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## nishub

Hello karyn
first of all i am sorry that i couldnt reply coz i was sick.and secondly from last saterday i am giving her the 4 cc drug of Co-Trimoxazole twice a day and from yesterday morning her drooping is looking changed it has became parrot green(first it was very dark green) she is looking well too.and i am thinking to medicate her for complet 1 week.so should i do this i am asking it coz i have gave all of my pigeons enrofloxocine for a week and yesterday it was the last 7th day.
and one more thing i had been told by some friend to provide my pigeons calcium regularly so i have bought a calcium suspension which is oral calcium DS contains phosphorous and vitamin D3 and B12 is that ok & plz tell me what should be its dose/gallon of water for all ? And how many days in a week i should give the calcium to my pigeons ?
Regards
Nishant


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## Dobato

nishub said:


> i am giving her the 4 cc drug of Co-Trimoxazole twice a day and from yesterday morning


Nishub, just to check, you did forget the decimal point and mean .40cc (fourth line on a 1cc syringe), not 4cc, and just to check, how much does she weight? I am glad you feel she is looking better since starting the Co-Trimoxazole. You can supplement with calcium, but to suggest how much to use in a gallon, I would need to know the concentration of the calcium liquid you have, it should say this on the bottle.

How often you should supplement would also depend on whether you are providing you birds with oyster shell grit (a source of calcium for them) and breeding hens would need more calcium in their diet as well. You can not give calcium while giving Enrocine, as it interferes with the absorption of the medicine.

Karyn


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## nishub

Oh sorry Karyn you are right thats .4cc & the birds waight is aprox 400 grms.and the nutritional value of the calcium solution per 20 ml is-calcium-651.2 mgs,phosphorus-335.4 mgs,vitamine D3-3200 IU & vitamine B12-40 mgcs.
As for as the grit concerns i gives them the rad brick pw with charcole pw & the marble stons(very tiny).i had never gave them the oyster shell (i even dont know anything about it),which type of product is it.
as i have told you i have stooped giving them the enrocine from yesterday so when can i start the calcium ? and what should be the dose/gallon ? and plz tell me for how many days/week it should be given ?
regards
Nishant


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## Dobato

Nishub, my preference would be for you to use a calcium supplement that does not contain added phosphorus. This supplement you have is most likely intended for use with larger farm animals like cattle and horses, as the the addition of phosphorus helps them absorb calcium. There is an intricate roll that calcium and phosphorus play in being assimilated by the body. If you supply too much phosphorous to a body that is already sufficiently suppled will it this has to be offset with an equal amount of calcium for the body to make use of it, in a pigeon this offset can actually drawn from its bones. Because a pigeon's diet is mainly seed/grain based pigeons are well supplied with phosphorous through their diet and don't generally require supplementing of this mineral. I should mention that you can find bird mineral supplements out there with the addition of phosphorous, but these are more intended for non seed/grain eating birds. 

Karyn


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## nishub

Hello karyn how are you long tome since we have talked,hope you must be fine,hey buddy this time i wants to know what should be the drug of the choice for cold in the pigeons.plz tell me as one of my friend need to be know.
thanks & regards
nishant


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## Dobato

nishub said:


> Hello karyn how are you long tome since we have talked,hope you must be fine,hey buddy this time i wants to know what should be the drug of the choice for cold in the pigeons.plz tell me as one of my friend need to be know.
> thanks & regards
> nishant


Nishub, you need to provide more information on what you mean by "cold". Do you mean a respiratory infection, what are all the symptoms, how old is the bird, how many birds does your friend have, any other birds having symptoms, is the bird eating and drinking OK, what do the droppings look like, how is it acting, what kind of pigeon is it, what's the weight?

Karyn


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## nishub

first thanks for repliy & i will let you know a bit later
regards
nishant


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## nishub

Hello Karyn
i have came to know that the problem of my friend has been sorted out now so thanks for your directions and now i wants to ask some questions for my personal use.
(1) Plz tell me some good medicine for the pigeon pox in small chicks.
(2) when a hen mats with a cook first time,how many days she takes to place the eggs after the maiting.
(3) can i give Pyrantel Pamoate as a folk treetmant for deworming to all of my birds this time when some of my hens are about to lay their eggs i am asking that coz some fanciers out here have told not to deworm the pigeons when they were going to lay the eggs.


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## Dobato

Nishub, I am not sure in your first question if you are asking about a vaccine for prevention of pox for squabs or how to treat an active infection in a young bird, can you clarify. After mating the hen most times will produce her first egg 7-10 days after mating, the second 44 hours or so after the first. You can flock treat with the Pyrantel, the dose would be 75mg per gallon of water, as their only source of water, for 1-2 days.

Glad your friend resolved his problem.

Karyn


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## nishub

Hey hey dear karyn
I have just recived his mail,his birds does not recover any more so i am just copying his mail to here plz friend give him some solution---------
nishant 6 birds have affected. nose watery and the eye with tears. intake feed reduced. not active one bird escreates watery vometing. i had tried with cipflox no improvement, 3 hours back i bought amoxiculne susspension oral dose was given .morning i tried with black pepper no impovement. i seek suggest from u nishanth the cold spreeding to birds.


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## Dobato

Nishub, I hope by now you know the first thing you should advise you friend and that is to isolate the sick birds from any others he has, throw out any food from dishes they may have eaten from, water as well, and clean and disinfect all perches, dishes, floors common areas and so on.

I need to know what the dose, strength and frequency of the Cipflox, how long was it given for before your friend decided it was not working, what are the weight of his birds? Can your friend pick up some Doxycycline, once I know the strength I can help with dosing. Please do not let him give them any more black pepper.

Karyn


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## nishub

hello karyn my friend has repliyed me that today i had gave amocyline syrup two times m/e along with seacod andvitamin c
now i have doxy 100mg cap with me.so plz suggest the dosing now.
thanks
nishant


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## Dobato

Nishub, I want to help you and your friend, but I can't help unless the questions I ask are answered. I thought you said your friend gave Cipflox as well and I asked for dosing amounts, strength and time used for this med. Unless I have strengths, amounts and time on what you have given, just telling me that this med or that med was used is of little use.

The dosing for Doxycycline is 50mg/kg, once a day, this means a 300g bird would need 15mg once a day. If you mix two and a half of the 100mg capsules into 5mL of honey, stir well, cover let sit 20 minutes, stir well again, you will have a 5% Doxycycline suspension 50mg/mL. You will dose 0.10cc for every 100g of a bird's body weight, so a 300g bird would get 0.30cc (this is 15mg and about 6 drops). For more severe respiratory infections the use of Ciprofloxacin, along with the Doxycycline might be warranted, but please if you/he are going to do this you need to get the dosing right, not just start medicating without correct amounts and times.

Karyn


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## nishub

thanks karyn for your support


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## nishub

hELLO KERYAN 
i NEED YOUR ADVISE AGAIN VERY BADLY plz help me.i have a jecobine kid of about 3 months old & one month ago he got a pigeon pox seed on his beak and since then that seed grew day by day and now that kid is in its worest stage and from today he is not eating too.till today he was eating properly so i did not contact you but now that poor bird is looking to in a very painfull state and from some days there are pox ballones at his legs also plz advise me some med otherwise that bird will die in 2-3 dayes coz he is eating nothing today (i am attaching the snaos too/
thanks & regards
Nishant


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## nishub

*the snaps of the sick bird*

these are the snaps of the sick bird


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## nishub

Keryn-I have applied some blue G.V. lotion on that pox pimples so they are looking blue-black in coler.


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## Dobato

Nishub, I have not had to deal personally with a case like this, but I can make a few suggestions. Personally, I would start the bird on Metronidazole and Cipro to guard against secondary infection and you will also need to hand-feed/support this little guy. You can hand feed small pieces of bread, cooked rice, and split yellow/green peas, basically small pieces of easy to digest food, make sure you dip his beak into tepid water after feeding to encourage him to drink.

Be gentle, and careful, when handling his beak area; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uU1SO0ZJoow

Good luck with him,

Karyn


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## nishub

Thanks karyn
But what should be the dose of metronidazole & cipro/as i have tell you i have the metronidazole tebs strenth is 200 mg.and plz tell me the chemical name and dosing of cipro so that i can arraing it.tho the name cipro looks familier to me but i could not recognised the name of its salt.
thanks & regards
Nishant


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## Dobato

nishub said:


> Thanks karyn
> But what should be the dose of metronidazole & cipro/as i have tell you i have the metronidazole tebs strenth is 200 mg.and plz tell me the chemical name and dosing of cipro so that i can arraing it.tho the name cipro looks familier to me but i could not recognised the name of its salt.
> thanks & regards
> Nishant


Nishant, the Cipro would be the same medicine as the Cipflox you spoke about earlier in your thread. The dose would be 5mg every 12 hours, and this should be OK for a bird in the 300-400g weight area. With the Metronidazole you want to give 1/8th of the 200mg pill once a day for a bird in the same weight area (25mg).

If you have pills you can turn them into a suspension. With the Cipro, if the pill is 500mg, you would grind the pill up into a very fine powder, add 10mL (2 teaspoons, must use a cooking teaspoon) stir well, cover let sit 20 minutes, stir well again and you will have a 5% Cipro suspension to dose with, 50mg/mL, you would dose a bird 0.10cc (first line on a 1cc syringe, and is about 2 drops) every 12h, this would be 5mg.

With the Metronidazole, you would grind 3 pills (3x200mg = 600mg) add 10mL of honey, stir well, let sit 20 minutes, stir well again and you will have a 6% Metronidazole suspension to dose with, 60mg/mL. With the suspension you can either do dosing every 12h, or 24h. The dose would be 0.20cc (12mg, 4 drops) every 12 hours or 0.40cc (24mg, 8 drops) every 24 hours. Always refrigerate suspensions and always stir well before any use.

Karyn


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## nishub

Hello Karyn
As usual i have some problum and trying to solve that can you suggest me something.when i opened my loft today one of my frill back young female didnt came out so i go there and see its mouth & when i see her beak,there was a yellow cotton/fungus type thing was there at some places in there,the bird was not moving much.and was not interested in eating too, she was some kind of fluffy too . when i see her poop,it was whole white with dark green spots in it(some where fully white drops).so i isolate her from my other pigeons and gave her 3 drops of enrofexocine 10% oral solution and clean her mouth & when i pressed her nostrils/nose then a thick yellowish liquid discharged from there.she was opining her mouth like to take breath by her mouth.SO WHAT TO DO NOW AS SHE IS STILL NOT EATING ANYTHING.what type of diseases is that PLZ HELP ME.
Thanks & regards
NISHANT


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## jeweel

Yellow substance inside mouth usually sign of canker... metronidazole is used for its treatment... An liquid substance from nostril is sign of respiratory infection...doxycycline & tylosin are used for treatment.


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