# Rescued a pigeon out of the street. Its bleeding. I have no idea what I am doing!??!



## Kelly5303 (Feb 22, 2007)

I found a pigeon flopping around in the middle of a busy street. I pulled over and put in a box. It is bleeding slightly under its right wing. I don't know if pigeons carry diseases. I don't know if it wing is broken. It will lift it up sometimes. I live in North Dakota I always see the pigeons sitting on top of buildings but is it actually too cold out side for the bird. I was looking for a rescue place around here but the closest I could find was four hours away. I called a couple vets and they said that they would look at it for around $300. The local college said their vet department couldn't look at it because of rules and policies. I don't want it to die, but I have no idea what to do with it. Help me please!


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Don't worry about diseases, the risk is 10,000,000 times greater that you'd be killed picking the bird up by getting hit by a car.

How much blood? I'm going to fetch some stuff and be right back.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

It probably got hit by a car (welcome to Pigeon-Talk, by the way) and it may have broken the wing or shoulder, but it could also have been hit by a hawk... anyhow, here's a drawing of the skeleton with names of parts that you can use to describe better where you think the main injury is:

http://people.eku.edu/ritchisong/skeleton.html

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

If you can describe how long ago you found the bird, whether you've got it in a house where it's warm at the moment, the current state of the bird (restless, panicky, blood still dripping, hunkered down, breathing heavily... anything else you can think of) then we can get on with figuring out where to go from here...

Pidgey


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## Kelly5303 (Feb 22, 2007)

Not a lot. It was in a box with white paper in it so I noticed the blood on the paper. It isn't drips. It is more like thin swipes. I noticed that the blood seems to be located at the joint. About equivalent to the human arm pit. I was afraid to lift the wing up to see how bad the bleed was because I don't want to hurt it more. Thank you for your helpful response so quickly.


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## Kelly5303 (Feb 22, 2007)

I picked it up about three hours ago. It is atually sitting on my deck right now. It is now all puffed up in a ball. It sits in the same spot unless I go out there then it will quit puffing out and walk away from me. Its looks to me like the wings are in the same position on both sides. Hawks are rare here and it was by this one roof that there are usually a lot of pigeons on so I am guessing a car is what happened.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Kelly5303 said:


> *I found a pigeon flopping around in the middle of a busy street. I pulled over and put in a box. It is bleeding slightly under its right wing.*


Welcome to Pigeon Talk Kelly.
Thanks so much for rescuing this poor pij.

Please click on the link below & follow the steps according to how the pij is acting. These initial steps are vital.
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=8822

Cindy


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi Kelly,

Thanks for steeping in and helping this poor bird out and welcome to Pigeon-Talk.

It might be a good idea if you could bring this bird inside to warm him up, it will help him a lot to start. If possible, a few pics of the injury would be nice in order to make better determinations for him.

Good luck with this little guy,

Ron


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Is your deck glassed in and warm or is it cold out there? The reason why I say that is the bird could probably use a little warmth right now and it's safer inside by a long shot as the bird can't get away from anything. Frankly, there are very few diseases that you could get from one and they're so rare in the wild birds that it's amazing. I've been rehabbing pigeons for years and no problem.

So, if you could get a box and line it with some papers, get him a heavy, squat bowl with at least a half-inch deep of water so that he can get a drink--he's probably feeling thirsty about now. You wouldn't happen to have any wild birdseed, wouldja'?

Pidgey


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## Kelly5303 (Feb 22, 2007)

I got our extra large dog kennel out. Put an old blanket in it. When I went outside to bring bird in, it walked away from me flapping its wings but not getting off the ground at all. It seemed to stumble and fall forward every couple of steps. Once i got it in the kennel all it does is sit in one spot. It still sits slightly puffed out but not as big as it was outside. How do I know when the pigeon is warm enough?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Thank you for elping this needy bird.

Usually putting a heating pad under them (with a blanket between them and the heating pad) set on low, will allow them to warm up, this is used indefinitely until the bird is better.

You can usually tell when they don't require heat any longer as they will try to find a place to stand off of the heating pad. 

Did you read the link on the initial steps?


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Kelly5303 said:


> I got our extra large dog kennel out. Put an old blanket in it. When I went outside to bring bird in, it walked away from me flapping its wings but not getting off the ground at all.
> * *It seemed to stumble and fall forward every couple of steps*.
> 
> Once i got it in the kennel all it does is sit in one spot. It still sits slightly puffed out but not as big as it was outside.
> ** *How do I know when the pigeon is warm enough*?


* It's very possible the bird is extremely dehydrated or starving. Falling face forward is one symptom of these two conditions.

** Would it be possible to put a towel lined heating pad, set on low, covering half the carrier? If he has the choice to move on & off the carrier as he sees fit, that would be best.

Cindy


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## Guest (Feb 23, 2007)

Kelly,
This is going to be rough without any medications or even the ability to properly stop bleeding. I want you to get a very adhesive tape like duct and tear off a strip.

Cut the strip lengthwise to make it less wide. Have somebody hold both wings together so that the long flight feathers on one wing are exactly aligned with the flight feathers on the other wing and touching each other. Wrap the tape around both wings in the back so they are taped together. The closer you tape to the body, the better.

This is to immobilize the wing to try and stop the bleeding. Whether it's broken or not, the wing still has to be immobilized for three weeks. If you only tape the damaged wing to the tail, there is going to be too much play allowing the wing to move and that's no good. We want clotting to occur.

Do you have any wild bird seed? You need to put water in something that will not tip over and have it by the bird at all times. Hydrating him is vital right now. I hope he drinks but if not, put his beak into water for a second and hope he starts to drink on his own. He isn't feeling well now so I don't know if he will eat. You may have to feed him by opening his beak and putting seed into the back of his throat. Don't use anything that has unshelled sunflower seeds in it. If you have some dry dog food, you can wet it and feed that to him but you will have to open his mouth and put it in deep or he will spit it out. If you have wet dog food out of a can, just take small pieces out with your fingers and get them down him. 

Without a vet's or a rehabilitator's help, what you can do is pretty limited but by doing these things, you may be able to keep him going until you find somebody. Where are you located?


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi Kelly,

Here is a to a video make by one of our other board members, Cynthia (cyro51), showing what pigeonperson is talking about.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=uU1SO0ZJoow

If you don't have a heating pad available maybe you could move the cage to the warmest part of the room. Please provide the bird with some water in dish that is not easy to tip over a at least an 1" deep for now. It may be possible that if he does not drink on his own, that you will have to give some fluids to him, do you have a syringe or eye dropper around the house?

Ron


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## Kelly5303 (Feb 22, 2007)

I have a heating pad in half of the kennel. A sturdy water dish and some of my mom' s wild bird seed. I haven't seen it eat or drink. I heard something about using the tape that sticks to itself that is made out of what looks like cheese cloth instead of duct tape. Thanks everybody for the help. I don't feel as overwelmed anymore.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Besides warming up, it sometimes takes awhile before they get over the shock of the new surroundings to eat. Just out of curiosity, when you picked the bird up did it feel like a lot of solid muscle or more like a too-light sack of sticks? If the answer to that question doesn't just jump out at you then did the "keel" (the breastbone--a meat cleaver-shaped bone that runs the length of the chest) feel like it was protruding such that you could pinch it in your fingers and hold the bird that way or does it feel like there is some or plenty of muscle on either side?

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

You know, it wouldn't hurt to feel the joints of the wing and see if there is any swelling anywhere. You can compare the one wing joints to the other. This might seem like an odd question but can you describe the color of the blood that you've seen--is it a browner color or is it a really bright red?

Pidgey


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## Guest (Feb 23, 2007)

Kelly,
If this is self stick tape, then wrap the injured wing around a couple of times before wrapping both wings around a couple of times. 
This may be a young bird, under 5-6 weeks of age and he may not know how to eat on his own. I hope you can get a picture of this bird up.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

*Just my opinion*, but there seem to be many questions not answered - yet -about this bird. Shouldn't some of these questions be addressed before doing a lot of wing taping (binding)?

- WHERE is the wound?
- IS it still bleeding?
- IS the wing actually broken or is the wound in the body itself? A puncture?
- ANY poops? if so, WHAT do the poops look like?

- Also, wouldn't hurt to check inside his mouth for possible evidence of canker.

Of course, if information has been obtained that isn't in this thread, then the above may be moot.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

The question was asked as to the amount of blood. Kelly replied:


Kelly5303 said:


> *Not a lot.* It was in a box with white paper in it so I noticed the blood on the paper. *It isn't drips. It is more like thin swipes*.





pigeonperson said:


> This is going to be rough without any medications or even the ability to properly stop bleeding. I want you to get a very adhesive tape like duct and tear off a strip.
> 
> Have somebody hold both wings together so that the long flight feathers on one wing are exactly aligned with the flight feathers on the other wing and touching each other.
> * *Wrap the tape around both wings in the back so they are taped together.*
> ...


As far as I know, there hasn't been a complete exam done on this bird so we really have no idea what's going on.

* I'm confused as to why you would suggest taping the birds wings together, behind it's back, for three weeks to control the bleeding, when there is very little bleeding taking place. 

One of my concerns is, the bird already has a balance problem (falling forward). I would think by taping it's wings together behind it's back will further enhance this problem.

Cindy


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## Guest (Feb 23, 2007)

Cindy,
This is immediate first aid. That is not the right way of fixing a shoulder in place if it's broken but Kelly said she cannot get the bird to a vet. If she could get the bird to a rehabber, it would have been repaired the right way.

I wasn't about to talk about the figure 8 taping of a wing when Kelly doesn't know how to do it nor does she know that birds don't have diaghragms and tightening the tape could inhibit breathing. If the shoulder is not broken, this method is good enough to stop bleeding and allow healing to take place.

The first thing to do is stop bleeding. If the wing is allowed to move, bleeding might continue. After that, a better evaluation could be done. If Kelly can't get to a rehabber or a vet, then what would you have suggested? She can't get an X-Ray. She doesn't have any idea what the underside looks like. She doesn't know if the bone is broken or if there is bone exposure. She can't stop the bleeding with a clotting agent because she doesn't have the right one plus, you can't put a clotting agent into an open, deep wound. By a vet, bleeding could be controlled with hemostats, electrocauterization and suturing under anesthesia. Can Kelly do that? I can't even do that. She can't suture and in that area, sutures are very hard to hold because the skin is very, very thin. There is a huge bone in the shoulder and if it's broken in half, a pin could be put in to fix it in place so Kelly might have a tiger by the tail. She doesn't have the antibiotics that would be needed. This is a first time for her so if you have better suggestions for a first timer to stop bleeding and stabilize the wing, then please post them.

This would have been the only thing she could do until the bird could be properly evaluated and if it can't, then what else could be done?. The bird is falling over and Kelly isn't in a position to tell if the bird is concussed. We know nothing but that bleeding had to be stopped. The skin could be ripped wide open and the small bleed would not point to that fact. They don't bleed that much under the shoulder so it belies what kind of rip could be there. I'll stick to my original suggestion to immobilize the wing the way I suggested.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I got one once (still have him) who had a burst Paratyphoid boil on the elbow that bled a little bit. That's why I asked about the color of the blood and to feel the wing joints to see if they felt normal. I also got a hawk-hit bird once that had the smallest puncture in the trunk that died within 24 hours, probably due to internal hemorrhaging. It didn't bleed much, though, but the blood was bright red.

Pidgey


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Kelly,

I think you are wonderful for rescuing the pigeon even though you thought it might carry a disease. So many people walk by.



> I heard something about using the tape that sticks to itself that is made out of what looks like cheese cloth instead of duct tape.


That is what I use, it doesn't damage the feathers like duct tape would.

I just wrap it round the body and wing once. That immobilises the wing enough to prevent damage to the soft tissues.

You have to stabilise the fracture without completely immobilising the wing joint, because immobilisation of the joint can cause the joint to ankylose which would prevent the bird from regaining flight.

And don't despair! I have had a pigeon with a broken bone sticking out of the "armpit" area and it regained flight. 

Cindy is right to be concerned about the pigeon's health, it sounds as if it has something other than the wing affecting it. It is often the sick and/or weak pigeons that get hit by traffic. 


Cynthia


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

pigeonperson said:


> Cindy,
> * *This is immediate first aid.* That is not the right way of fixing a shoulder in place if it's broken but Kelly said she cannot get the bird to a vet. If she could get the bird to a rehabber, it would have been repaired the right way.
> 
> I wasn't about to talk about the figure 8 taping of a wing when Kelly doesn't know how to do it nor does she know that birds don't have diaghragms and tightening the tape could inhibit breathing. If the shoulder is not broken,
> ...


*** Kelly described the amount of blood as 'not a lot' & it wasn't dripping. I would interpret that as 'not bleeding profusely' or being 'life threatening'.

**** At the time of your posting, very little information had been obtained about the bird. What we did know was the bird was fluffed, falling forward, a small amount of blood had been seen & the wings seemed to be aligned properly. 
Yes, the small amount of blood & possible wing injury is a concern. However, the fact that the bird was falling forward indicated to me he was severely dehydrated, starving or possibly even had a concussion. Addressing those possibilities would be my first priority.

***** Since there was very little blood & we are dealing with an external issue, the first thing to do would be to find out exactly where the blood was coming from, what type of wound we were dealing with & treat accordingly. This being done after the bird had been stabilized.

****** Initially, exactly what I did suggest. Follow the basic life saving steps. Get the bird stabilized.

**** *** *Excellent* *case in point*. If Kelly has no idea what the underside looks like, we certainly don't, so how can we make rational suggestions on what should or shouldn't be done when we have no idea what's going on?

What would the prognosis be if the wings were taped, without having done a complete exam, left for the three weeks that you recommended & there *was* a compound fracture that hadn't been detected *or* a puncture wound that was filled with debris?

**** **** First & foremost, I would recommend stabilizing the *patient*. I would post the link to the basic life saving steps as a guide.
Once the bird is stabilized, I would suggest examining the bird completely. Post back the findings & then suggest treatment accordingly.

Unlike internal issues, we have the ability to examine a bird externally. With that said, I disagree with making blind suggestions. If the situation is 'life threatening', then we do what we have to. 

We all have our individual thoughts & these are mine, as you asked for.

Cindy

Kelly,
How is the bird doing?


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## Guest (Feb 23, 2007)

Cindy,
I just wanted to stop the bleed. That's the first priority in giving first aid. I didn't go any further than that. I didn't misspeak about the tape being on for three weeks. That would have been ok if there were no break but again, the first thing to do in first aid is to stop the bleeding and then go further with an evaluation of what is going on and I don't know what else is going on with this bird.

My experience has been that birds that are falling over usually don't survive because it's a sign of concussion and bleeding into the brain. That didn't stop me from trying to give advice about the bleeding. For all we know, the bird is gone already. 

I agree with you completely about giving first aid to a bird. Stop the bleed, keep warm, hydrate, let it rest and worry about everything else afterwards. Maybe I didn't cover everything. I know I didn't but what advice is there to give when Kelly didn't come on for the rest of it? What is the sense of discussing a corticosteroid shot to try to help the brain if Kelly can't get to a vet? Things like that but we never got beyond the initial wing injury.

As far as making blind statements, this wasn't a blind statement. You want the bird stabilized. How do you stabilize a bird unless you stem bleeding and immobilize the injury to prevent it from continuing to bleed on and off? Do you know what shock is and what happens in a shock condition? Shock occurs when there is so much loss of blood, the blood pressure drops. The body shunts the blood away from the organs and sends it to the lungs and brain. The extremities get cold and pan organ breakdown occurs. How much blood was going into the wound that wasn't seen? How much bleeding was there before Kelly got the bird? I don't ever want to hear from anyone that the bleeding doesn't have to be stopped first before doing anything else. Sure, Kelly said that there was just a trickle. Did it dawn on you that the blood pressure was so low, there was no bleeding left to be done? It sure dawned on me but I'm a pigeon rehabilitator so I have to know these things.

Kelly said she wasn't going to take the bird to a vet so what else was there to do other than taping the wing and hope for the best. Don't shoot the messenger and frankly, anybody who doesn't know that the first priority in giving first aid is to stop bleeding should not be handling any living creature. You stop it with pressure. You stop it with sutures. You stop it with cauterization. You stop it by tying off blood vessels but you have got to stop it and that's called stabilizing the bird.


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## Kelly5303 (Feb 22, 2007)

Hello all,
The pigeon stayed in the house over night. It had food and water available to it however, I didn't witness it eat or drink. It mainly stays in one place but it will move away if aproached. It does not seem to have any balance problems to me. I don't think it can fly, though. It does flap its wings while jumping short distances. After flapping its wings it seems to hold the one wing slightly out and upward for a while before getting it back into the same position as the other wing. It is no longer bleeding. The bird doesn't seem or feel feeble, weak, or starved to me. I believe someone asked about the poo and it has pooed several times throughout the night and day. It is yellow liquid with dark solid chunks in it. The dried ones have white in them as well. It looks like pretty regular bird poop to me. 

There are no protruding bones but, I do feel that there is something wrong with the wing. I know I probably should have already tried to examine the cone structure, but I don't want to hurt it. Should I try to let it stand and examine? or lay it on its back with someone elses help holding it down? There is a little dried blood on its chest should I try to wipe this off or would it be like picking its scab?


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## KIPPY (Dec 18, 2003)

> or lay it on its back with someone elses help holding it down?


No, from what I remember you are to *never* put a pigeon on it's back


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## PigeonQueen (Aug 13, 2006)

Kelly, Im new to this site, dont know too much, but I think you have to make sure your pigeon has some water and seed fairly soon. Maybe you could wrap the pigeon in a towel and when he is calm give him abit of bread soaked in water. Open the beak and place well down the back of his throat. Dont worry about examining him, food and water and remaing warm is essential. Hopefully someone more experienced will reply soon. Thank you so much for caring. Canryjayne from UK


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## KIPPY (Dec 18, 2003)

Sorry, I'm not much help. I just wanted to quickly post that before you tried it.

Someone should be along shortly.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Kelly5303 said:


> It is yellow liquid with dark solid chunks in it. The dried ones have white in them as well. It looks like pretty regular bird poop to me.
> 
> There are no protruding bones but, I do feel that there is something wrong with the wing. I know I probably should have already tried to examine the cone structure, but I don't want to hurt it. Should I try to let it stand and examine? or lay it on its back with someone elses help holding it down? There is a little dried blood on its chest should I try to wipe this off or would it be like picking its scab?


1) Tell us a little more about the yellow liquid: Is there a lot? Is it almost clear with a yellowish tinge or is it like chalky yellow and opaque? Does the white part look REALLY white, or is it yellowish?

2) Just let the bird stand naturally and feel the joints of the wing and compare one side to the other--do you feel any swelling on the bad wing?

3) Don't worry about the dried blood--the bird will take care of it in time all on its own.

Pidgey


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Kelly5303 said:


> Hello all,
> The pigeon stayed in the house over night. It had food and water available to it however, I didn't witness it eat or drink.
> 
> It mainly stays in one place but it will move away if aproached. It does not seem to have any balance problems to me. I don't think it can fly, though.
> ...


Hi Kelly,
Thanks for posting an update.  

* Sounds like he is trying to exercise his wings. If you do feel there is most likely a wing injury, I would suggest keeping him confined to a somewhat small area. This will help to eliminate further injury.

** That's great news.  You still need to check things out though. 

*** Yellow droppings aren't normal. There could be a few things that will cause this. The white indicates he is consuming some water. Is he consuming enough, that's the question.

Here are a couple things to check:
1) The inside of his mouth. Gently open his beak & take a peek inside. It should be nice & pink with no obstructions.
2) His keel (breast) bone. There should be a sufficient amount of muscle on each side. A 'sharp' keel bone with little muscle is an indication of starvation.
3) Compare the good wing with the bad. Note any differences.

I agree with Kippy. I would not place the pij on his back to examine him. If you need an assistant, that's fine, but I would not recommend placing him on his back.

Cindy


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Kelly5303,

A pigeon's head should be/remain higher than the crop. This is to ensure that the bird does not reguritate/aspirate fluid into the air sacs/lungs which could be fatal. Sometimes you might see an experienced vet look at a bird while in a slightly reclined position with the head higher than the throat/crop. For someone relatively inexperienced in bird handling, it would be a relatively easy
thing to lose track of the position of the head and risk aspiration.

And so it becomes one of those "Don't try this at home" kind of things...  

Thanks for all that you are doing to help this injured pigeon out.

fp


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Any chance of checking gently UNDER the wing(s) and round the chest area to see where the blood might have come from originally??


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## Guest (Feb 24, 2007)

Kelly,
If this bird is not eating or drinking yet, you have to help. See post number 14 for the way to get food down him. Every minute that passes, he's using up his body fat in place of food and is weakening. In the beginning, use soft, wet dog food. If he's dehydrated, he may throw it up so if you have an eye dropper, first drip water into his mouth anywhere except the center where the tongue is. Look at post number 14. Keep the head in that position for food but for water, raise his head vertically as much as possible.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Pigeonperson,
I apologize for not addressing your questions in a more timely manner. Will do so now.




pigeonperson said:


> Cindy,
> *1)*) *How do you stabilize a bird unless you stem bleeding and immobilize the injury to prevent it from continuing to bleed on and off? *
> 
> I stabilize a bird by following the guidelines provided by our local (& federally licensed) rehabber while attending a training session.
> ...




*With respect to Kelly & her thread, if there are any other questions/comments directed to me personally, with regard to this thread, please send them via my email,* [email protected]

Thanks,

Cindy


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