# That Appalling Woman Again!



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Barbara James. Now she is calling for the eviction of tenants who feed pigeons and to have the birds' necks wrung.

Obviously the milk of human kindness soured long ago in her veins. And she wants rate payers to fund her malevolence! 

Letters to the newspaper editor welcome!

http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/content/News/story.aspx?brand=ENOnline&category=News&tBrand=enonline&tCategory=news&itemid=NOED02%20Aug%202006%2009%3A59%3A03%3A770

Cynthia


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## Vasp (Jul 25, 2006)

Ugh! And more than 3 quarters of the people even SAID the pigeons weren't a problem!


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## kittypaws (Sep 18, 2005)

cyro51 said:


> Barbara James. Now she is calling for the eviction of tenants who feed pigeons and to have the birds' necks wrung.
> 
> Cynthia


I saw the Edinburgh way of dealing with the pigeons on a BBC programme called "Life of Grime" - its a pretty awful programme - it was when the pigeon catchers said that they would "dispatch the birds humanely" and then wrung their necks, on camera, throwing them onto the floor - it was absolutely awful - those poor beautiful birds lured to their death. 

Cynthia - I will respond - my letter got printed last time


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Thanks Tania.

I am a bit afraid that if I attack her in the papers this creature will harm my own pigeons. I am going to do something but it must be carefully worded. 

Cynthia


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## arnieismybaby (Jul 24, 2006)

Hi Cynthia!

Stupid woman - I could think of something stronger to call her. If the birds were that much of a nusiance, then surely the majority of the residents would be complaining, but it seems to me that isn't the case. Once again, people in authority refuse to listen to the majority and act on the complaints of the minority. Someone should string this woman up by her neck!  

Culling birds, in the long term, simply doesn't work. They will return. It's about time that City Councils realised this. Culling, in my honest opinion, is murder pure and simple.

City Councils should spend more time spending our hard earned council tax on more worthwhile projects and fighting crime, rather than concentrating on the best and most efficient way to get rid of a few harmless birds. 

Michelle.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Unfortunately, it takes one person only to stir trouble for the poor pigeons.
I've been in the same situation, one tennant complained and that was it, she had her way.

Reti


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

cyro51 said:


> Thanks Tania.
> 
> I am a bit afraid that if I attack her in the papers this creature will harm my own pigeons. I am going to do something but it must be carefully worded.
> 
> Cynthia



Hi Cynthia....yes...please do be careful with how you respond to this person and keep your birds safe.

Folks, Cynthia is so very right and unfortunately we have to be careful with how we word things or react to people like this. They usually end up having the uppper hand in such confrontations.


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

Heres my letter .

I think it would be best to leave the pigeons alone. No more hawks, drugs, or any other scheme to get rid of them. I don't see the harm in having them since they are always on the roof and never come inside the houses. If the town accuses the pigeons of being dirty they have no one else to blame but themselves. Pigeons are clean birds. They shower and groom themselves. They rarely drop feathers and their waste is beneficial to plant growth since it is fertilizer. They want a safe life and i doubt any pigeon has hurt any person. They want to survive just like us humans do. Just because they seem to be an inconvenience to us doesn't mean we have to get rid of them. We are not perfect either, who are we to judge the pigeons when we are worse than they are in most cases. I think the city officials want to focus on the pigeons because they can't handle the required attention in the streets. They should use the money to benefit the schools, roads, or city funds. These people who give the pigeons food care for them. The city officials are punishing people for HELPING other animals. Now that is absurd. I suggest they educate themselves before they take action.These pigeons have helped humans so much overtime and here we are betraying them. For example, a pigeon named "Cher Ami" saved the lives of many soldiers in the "Lost Battalion" of new York's 77Th division of the U.S. Army.Since pigeons are common they are often overlooked and forgotten of their history. I myself do not feed them, i just want to fight for what is RIGHT.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Reti, I still can't come to terms with the downright cruelty that you and the neighbourhood pigeons were subjected to. Those people were sadists.

Flying Pidgy, that is a beautiful letter and it makes perfect sense. You are so right about the pigeons not tresspassing!

Cynthia


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

Thank you  not all teenagers are crazy =p


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Yes, Flying Pidgy.....very good letter!

Linda


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Just a passing thought...I am not a lawyer, but the council is considering a policy of evicting tenants or issuing them with an ASBO for feeding pigeons, presumably on their own balconies, regardless of the numbers of pigeons involved etc...basically on a matter of principle? So what about their Human Right to a private life?

Article 8: Right to privacy 

(1) Everyone has the right for his private and family life, his home and his correspondence. 

(2) There shall be no interference by a public authority with the exercise of this right except such as is in accordance with the law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security, public safety or the economic well-being of the country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others. 

I hardly think feeding a few pigeons threatens national security or even that it is a threat to public safety!

Cynthia


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## alvin (May 10, 2006)

It's the last phrase that makes the difference. Some people don't like their cars getting pooped on.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

alvin said:


> It's the last phrase that makes the difference. Some people don't like their cars getting pooped on.


So don't park under a pigeon!


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

cyro51 said:


> Just a passing thought...I am not a lawyer, but the council is considering a policy of evicting tenants or issuing them with an ASBO for feeding pigeons, presumably on their own balconies, regardless of the numbers of pigeons involved etc...basically on a matter of principle? So what about their Human Right to a private life?
> 
> Article 8: Right to privacy
> 
> ...


As people buy food for the pigeons they boost the economy a bit too


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Nobody has the right NOT to have their car pooped on...it could be pooped on by a protected species. Yes, even protected birds poop. 

Besides, while pigeons are on a balcony by invitation they won't be pooping elsewhere!

Cynthia


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## alvin (May 10, 2006)

Devils advocate. 

Besides the 'Car Pooping' thing wasn't an example it's a prediction. Could you get the license plate number of her car. Gertrude likes to cut down on the 'Collateral Damage'.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> Could you get the license plate number of her car.


Know your enemy!

Cynthia


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## arnieismybaby (Jul 24, 2006)

Well after some serious thought, and taking into consideration my own personal battles with the Corporation of London, I decided to send an e-mail - I hope it isn't too strong. What do you guys think?



> Dear Sirs,
> 
> Though an on-line forum, I read your article "Feed the pigeons and face eviction". Sorry, but I truly fail to see what Ms. James problem is.
> 
> ...


Michelle.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Very well written and good points about the bacteria. It hadn't struck me that cigarettes and chewing gum are so filthy.

Nothing pro pigeons in the letters page today...they printed an anti pigeon response the day after the article appeared. I know they have received 4 e-mails from is. I hope they are not discriminating.

Cynthia


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

WELL said, Michelle! Echoes my opinions!


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## arnieismybaby (Jul 24, 2006)

cyro51 said:


> Very well written and good points about the bacteria. It hadn't struck me that cigarettes and chewing gum are so filthy.
> 
> Nothing pro pigeons in the letters page today...they printed an anti pigeon response the day after the article appeared. I know they have received 4 e-mails from is. I hope they are not discriminating.
> 
> Cynthia





mr squeaks said:


> WELL said, Michelle! Echoes my opinions!



Thank you both  I guess, going by the lack of response to any of my letters to the Corp. of London, my e-mail will probably get ignored. Cynthia, you have probably hit the nail on the head, I'm guessing anything that is not anti-pigeons is likely to get ignored.  

Michelle.


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## nabisho (Nov 18, 2004)

*Surcharge on pigeon food*

Perhaps they could put a small sales tax on pigeon & birdfood and use that money to hire a cleanup service. Kind of like we do with the paint cans, they have a small charge added to all the cans of spraypaint sold in town and they use that money to pay for graffiti clean up work. That way the mess gets cleaned, the pigeon people are happy, the pigeons don't have to die, and somebody with a pressure washer gets a job.

NAB


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

Would it help if any of us from a-far wrote a letter.

Feather


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## arnieismybaby (Jul 24, 2006)

nabisho said:


> Perhaps they could put a small sales tax on pigeon & birdfood and use that money to hire a cleanup service. Kind of like we do with the paint cans, they have a small charge added to all the cans of spraypaint sold in town and they use that money to pay for graffiti clean up work. That way the mess gets cleaned, the pigeon people are happy, the pigeons don't have to die, and somebody with a pressure washer gets a job.
> 
> NAB


Good idea, but it wouldn't wash with Ken Livingstone. Oh no, his sole ambition is to rid London definitely, and possibly the UK if he thought he could, from pigeons!  

Michelle.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Michelle is right, the poop isn't all they object to. Ken Livingstone hated seeing people enjoying the company of pigeons, having them perch on them...that was his trigger for getting rid. Others don't like the noise that they make or the way a flock will take off at the same time, or the way that they do those wonderful aerial displays...they think they will be pooped on.

Letters from afar are fine, after all, it is an on-line paper and you have read it, so you are all readers. They printed JUlie's (Turkey from Florida) last time.

Cynthia


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Michelle, wish I could write something that well. I hope it does some good.

Nab, that is a great idea for the tax on pigeon food.

And, Cynthia, it is beyond my comprehension how anyone could not enjoy seeing the pigeons take off and perform the awesome maneuvers that they do. It is one of the joys of my life to see them.


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## nabisho (Nov 18, 2004)

*I'm not sure about this*

but to me the thought of tinpot politicians and bureacrats getting pooped on has a great deal of merit - IMHO.

NAB


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## arnieismybaby (Jul 24, 2006)

nabisho said:


> but to me the thought of tinpot politicians and bureacrats getting pooped on has a great deal of merit - IMHO.
> 
> NAB


*LOL* oh so true ... maybe we could train the London pigeons to do a fly past and then bombs away .... the next time Ken Livingstone is preaching in Trafalgar Square ... that will really give him something to moan about  

Michelle.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Maggie,

I don't understand anything anymore! There was a yahoo question about what to do if you found a pigeon in your garden. The kindest people thought pigeons were akin to a dirty bomb, to be handled with care in case of infection and handed over for destruction. The rest were vicious in their hatred. It really depressed me.

Michelle,

They would have to recruit the seagulls to do that for them. Only very sick pigeons will poop in flight, usually they take two steps backward before pooping. I don't know if the same applies when there is water available. Pigeons will always poop in their drinking water, it has to be deliberate.

Cynthia


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## arnieismybaby (Jul 24, 2006)

cyro51 said:


> Michelle,
> 
> They would have to recruit the seagulls to do that for them. Only very sick pigeons will poop in flight, usually they take two steps backward before pooping. I don't know if the same applies when there is water available. Pigeons will always poop in their drinking water, it has to be deliberate.
> 
> Cynthia


Cynthia, do you realise that I had no idea the pigeons didn't poop whilst in flight. Damn it ... I knew that the person who reported me to the Corp. of London, and that the Corp. of London themselves were lying when they said that they had been pooped on whilst walking down the court. Think I'm going to use this piece of very useful information. Thank you! 

Michelle.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I was pooped on once and assumed that it was a pigeon, people do, because they poop off ledges and that is when they are spotted. Then they get blamed for all the arial poops.

Cynthia


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## alvin (May 10, 2006)

Gertrude does........ 
And he's a Markspijie. He can drop on the center of a moving five of diamonds from 200ft up.

So when you are feeling down. Imagine being able to pick which ear Barbra James temporarily dosn't need.......  

But as we all know Gertrude is a 'Special' Pijie.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*Next Election*

HI CYNTHIA, Ken Livigstone is a politican, and what do politicians fear the most........NOT GETTING REELECTED. So start a campaign to defeat him in the next election.It seems to me that there may be enough people that are unhappy with him,that you could put the fear into him.I often think that we all seem to think we can't do anything.Belive me politicians have a fear of losing their power. GEORGE


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## nabisho (Nov 18, 2004)

*George is right*



george simon said:


> HI CYNTHIA, Ken Livigstone is a politican, and what do politicians fear the most........NOT GETTING REELECTED. So start a campaign to defeat him in the next election.It seems to me that there may be enough people that are unhappy with him,that you could put the fear into him.I often think that we all seem to think we can't do anything.Belive me politicians have a fear of losing their power. GEORGE


The first priority of all politicians is to remain in office, their second priority is to get money out of the hands of citizens and into the hands of politicians, I bet the special tax/surcharge for cleanup work would get the guy drooling - they like nothing better than another way to get their hands on people's money they are almost like dope addicts.

NAB 

P.S. Perhaps you could start dropping a few canned sardines around in front of their offices to attract the seagulls to the vicinity.


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

I got a REPLY!

"We would like to use your letter on our letters page, however, to do so we will need an address (street name, village/town/city) to run alongside. If you could reply to this email with the relevant details we will look to publish your comments at the earliest possible opportunity.



Kind regards



Zoe Catchpole

Assistant editor"

But I dont feel comfortable giving out my adress.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

That's great that the paper wants to use your article, Flying Pidgey. I think all you would need to provide them with is the name of your street and not the house number, your city, your state, and USA ..

ie: Palmek Circle, Lake Forest, CA, USA 

Terry


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## auroraborealis (May 30, 2006)

*Monument in Park Lane, central London*



cyro51 said:


> Barbara James. Now she is calling for the eviction of tenants who feed pigeons and to have the birds' necks wrung.
> 
> Obviously the milk of human kindness soured long ago in her veins. And she wants rate payers to fund her malevolence!
> 
> ...


Hello Cynthia!

Ms James should visit the monument in Park Lane, central London, that pays special tribute to animals awarded the PDSA Dickin Medal-the animal's equivalent of the Victoria Cross-since 1943. This monument was created in 2004 and inaugurated by Princess Anne. Out of the 54 animals, *32 pigeons*, 18 dogs, 3 horses and a cat. 

Ms James just forgot about Winkie who saved a downed bomber crew even if its wings were blogged with oil and the 200,000 pigeons used as messengers in WWII. Of 17,000 parachuted into enemy territory fewer than one in eight returned.

The monument as said by PDSA director general, Marilyn Rydstrom, will stand "as a testament to the extraordinary bond that animals share with mankind in times of extreme adversity." 

Here in Quebec it is illegal to feed pigeons even in public parks and pigeons are thought by many as carriers of bird flu.

Ignorance and fear caused by ignorance are the source of many evil doings.

Susan


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## auroraborealis (May 30, 2006)

*Monument in Park Lane, central London*

Hello Cynthia!

I will send the article on this monument to the newspaper.

Susan


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Flying Pidgy,

The paper has a policy of not printing letters without being given a full address, however they only print a partial address. It is great that they have gone to this trouble to get the information needed to print your letter, uaually they ignore the ones that arrive without contact details!

Cynthia


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

THat is a good idea, Sue!

Cynthia


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## arnieismybaby (Jul 24, 2006)

Flying_Pidgy said:


> I got a REPLY!
> 
> "We would like to use your letter on our letters page, however, to do so we will need an address (street name, village/town/city) to run alongside. If you could reply to this email with the relevant details we will look to publish your comments at the earliest possible opportunity.
> 
> ...


Congratulations, at least one letter in support will get printed  

Michelle.


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## piney_creek (Jun 5, 2006)

Flying_Pidgy said:


> But I dont feel comfortable giving out my adress.



Do you possibly have a PO Box #, if so use it.

PINEY


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

ok i gave them my street town and state. Where do i go to to see if they posted it?


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

They don't print the letters on line (or if they do I can't find them), so I buy the paper and scan the letters page in.

Today they published John's letter and one from a local resident, I will scan those in when I get home.

Cynthia


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

cyro51 said:


> They don't print the letters on line (or if they do I can't find them), so I buy the paper and scan the letters page in.
> 
> Today they published John's letter and one from a local resident, I will scan those in when I get home.
> 
> Cynthia


Ok cool.If you see mine please scan it.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

*Update*

Here is the latest collection of letters printed, Sue's included? I am pleased that the pigeon lovers are defiant and there is a previously unknown rescuer on the estate as well!


Cynthia


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Cynthia,

Thanks for scanning and posting these as we wouldn't have an opportunity to see them otherwise. Great letters!

Linda


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## arnieismybaby (Jul 24, 2006)

Cynthia!

Thanks for scanning those letters, I have to say I'm amazed that the paper is actually printing them, I thought that would have been on the side of the "evil woman".

Michelle.


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## andinla (Mar 11, 2003)

*Great*

letters , thank you for sharing them..Glad the press printed them...

Andi


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

Hey cool they used the "War accomplishments" i mentioned. Its not the same example but same accomplishments.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

*Cull averted!!!!*

Thanks to all of you who wrote!

http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/search/story.aspx?brand=ENOnline&category=News&itemid=NOED26%20Sep%202006%2009:23:05:600&tBrand=ENOnline&tCategory=search

Cynthia


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## arnieismybaby (Jul 24, 2006)

Good morning Cynthia!

It's fantastic news that Norwich City Council is taking such a positive step to ensuring the well being of the pigeons and eliminating the need for mass culling. The only negative note that ruins this news is that stupid woman.



> Barbara James, 64, who used to be chairwoman of the city-wide tenants board and lives in Aylmer Tower, Mile Cross, said she did not think the dovecotes would prove an effective solution to the problem.
> 
> “I m sorry, I just don't see how it can work,” she said. “I've lived here for 23 years and pigeons have nested on the verandas for 23 years so why should it change?
> 
> ...


Has she ever considered upping sticks and moving? It appears to me that even if the dovecoats prove successful - and I'm willing to bet that people will cease feeding from their balconies if they know there is somewhere safe for the birds to go and receive food - this pathetic, silly woman would still complain. Sadly she simply appears to be one of life's misery guts who are only happy when they are (a) moaning and (b) making life miserable for those around her.

Otherwise, excellent news!

Michelle


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Michelle,

I had also considered suggesting relocation. I am certain that the majority of people would prefer the company of pigeons to Mrs James!

Personally I cannot see why she should object to people feeding them or letting them roost on their own balconies as long as her own balcony is a pigeon free area and John has already written about how that could be achieved.

But as you say, she is a miserable person who will always be looking for something to object to.

Cynthia


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## pigifan (Nov 2, 2005)

This is excellent news !

It is sad that people can't enjoy the company of pigeons in their own balconies . I think I read somewhere Barbara James wanted to be a Labour candidate - politicians always want to be in the limelight talking nonsense. She should quickly be evicted and sent to London to share her hatred with another idiot, Ken Livingstone. 

It is important that the dovecote location should be quite high and out of reach to avoid attracting the attention of teenage yobs who could cause harm. Twice in the same location in Middlesbrough racing pigeons have been burnt alive in allotments (council-owned garden plots rented by individuals).

I hope Seaman Tower and Chapel Field Gardens aren't vandalism hotspots.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> It is important that the dovecote location should be quite high and out of reach to avoid attracting the attention of teenage yobs who could cause harm. Twice in the same location in Middlesbrough racing pigeons have been burnt alive in allotments (council-owned garden plots rented by individuals).
> 
> I hope Seaman Tower and Chapel Field Gardens aren't vandalism hotspots.


Chapelfield Gardens is one of the places where I feed the pigeons, it is a crime hotspot (just last night someone got stabbed) but there does not seem to be much vandalism as the bandstand survives. Because of there is a history of stabbings, sexual assaults etc I think the place is regularly policed. I hope so, anyway.

The MIle Cross estate on which Seaman Towers stands is arguably one of the worst areas in Norwich for both crime and vandalism.

If you scroll down this link youwill find a photo of the dovecote erected at Bury St Edmunds as an alternative to a cull. As you will see it is quite tall. THis isn't just to deter vandals but because pigeons are not attracted to nesting areas that are too close to the ground.

http://www.picasuk.com/artificial_breeding.htm


Cynthia


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## Hannahbelle (Sep 8, 2006)

auroraborealis said:


> Here in Quebec it is illegal to feed pigeons even in public parks and pigeons are thought by many as carriers of bird flu.
> 
> Ignorance and fear caused by ignorance are the source of many evil doings.
> 
> Susan



Wow, I didn't know it was illegal here...
And I was about to start feeding a flock that live nearby me, in the graveyard.

Also, I do have them come to my feeder at my apartment...what am I supposed to do, put up a sign "no pigeons allowed"? 

I don't understand this hatred toward pigeons.

When I rescued one recently, people were horrified, and couldn't understand that he was staying in my apartment...the most common thing I heard was "rat with wings".

It makes me sick that people are so darn disrespectful to animals.


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## Ryiinn (Sep 12, 2006)

I hear the "rat with wings" all the time as well, and I get called a crazy bird lady by some people for having Squidge. Even if some people are OK with my rehabbing her, almost everyone I know says that if I get another pigeon I am completely insane.

It's ridiculous and close-minded. As a side-note, I used to have quite an assortment of pet rats throughout the years (my last little baby died at the age of 5 a few years back before I moved west), and I found rats to be absolutely delightful. They're smart and personable and very clean. My Eek would climb up my arm and sit on my shoulder and head when I was reading, and I adored her despite the negativity surrounding her species.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

I AGREE, Ryiinn, rats make GREAT pets too!


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## mountainstorm (May 3, 2006)

Actually, Hannahbelle, I think that's a great idea. A big crafty sign, with pretty flowers painted on it, little tendril vines, and big letters with dots at the ends of each line, NO PIGEONS ALLOWED, LOL. A love sarcastic responses like that to stupidity in real life.



Hannahbelle said:


> Also, I do have them come to my feeder at my apartment...what am I supposed to do, put up a sign "no pigeons allowed"? .


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## mountainstorm (May 3, 2006)

Yes, rats are great pets, too! They're so smart and friendly and I've seen examples of empathy between sick rats. People who think rats are so terrible are uneducated ... I was going to say more, but this is a pigeon website. And all the same things apply regarding diseases and stuff.

Rach


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Good news, indeed, Cynthia. It should be interesting for you and John to see first hand how PICAS does this whole thing .. hope you will keep us posted and get pics when appropriate.

Terry


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Terry,

Yes, we will be keeping a close eye on developments I just hope there are no snags. The last time they tried to introduce dovecotes there was a public outcry about egg removal and they didn't implement the system. So sad, because the general public believes in "nature taking its course" so they don't deal with all the heartbreaking results of over population and the resultant pigeon hatred .

I live within reasonable distance of the Bury St Edmunds dovecote and John and I have been intending to go there and have a look, take a video. But there does not even seem to be the time to do the basic these days!

Cynthia
.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Cynthia,

That is INDEED good news, and I will keep this project in my thoughts and prayers so there hopefully won't be any snags.


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