# Trouper ready for release?



## DanceBiscuit (Jun 12, 2010)

The Stringfoot I helped out is doing quite well, and has been getting more and more energetic/antsy in my keep, s/he clearly wants to get out of here.

My only concern at this point is how grungy the feathers are. Wiping them off does little. I have kitten shampoo, should I maybe attempt to give the feathers a good wash and monitor the powder buildup before release? I figure once the feathers are good to go, the swelling in his foot will be dealt with.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

have you offerd bath water for him?


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Mo' pictures? Close ups of Feathers and of Feets?


I'm thinking wait a while...( if you can ).


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Yes...I don't quite get your sentence "when the feathers are good to go the swelling will be dealt with" 

?

You can wash him with Dawn dishwashing liquid...it is very good at removing oily grunge and is what wildlife rescuers use to treat oil-covered aquatic animals (ahem...friggin' BP, you hearin' this ?!)

personally, that would be preferable to a shampoo for cats, methinks.....

Now, the feet...yes, as Phil suggests..can we see some pics ? if tehre is still any sign of swelling, infection, or rawness there...he's not ready to release yet.

Also, remind us...he is an adult ? ...or a youngster ?


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## DanceBiscuit (Jun 12, 2010)

i linked to his main page. While taking a better look at the feathers I noticed bugs in his feathers. I tried looking them up and they're long brown bugs, not small bird tics... now i'm concerned about contamination and possible damage they're causing to this bird...


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Powder him with Sevin Dust, 5%, or a Permethrin Powder. Don't get it near his face.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

DanceBiscuit, these are feather lice, not a huge concern, although they need to be dealt with, many ferals have them, so this is not a strange thing to find on one. Any caged bird Lice and Mite spray will deal with them, usually with just one treatment, most pet stores carry them, just make sure the kind you get is Pyrethrin based, such as this one:

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752076

Viktor should also be treated (and as a matter of course for any of your future rescues), make sure you cover their head area, spray them all over and make sure you spray well under each extended wing.

Karyn


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## DanceBiscuit (Jun 12, 2010)

hi quick update:
cracked out the dawn soap and this stuff isnt coming out. Even with the soak and soap, it needs scraping to get it off and it damages the feathers and frustrates the bird. Should I maybe just clip the damaged area of the feathers?


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Images?

I do not know what is being discussed here with the Feathers...


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Sometimes I half-dry the feathers with a hairdryer and then use a fine-tooth comb or better yet a soft-bristled hairbrush (or even toothbrush) to sorta comb thru them...it breaks up the grungy particles and makes 'em come off more easily. I know what you are saying...pigeonfeather grunge doesn't release its grip easily, sometimes....

DanceBiscuit - his feet look amazingly better ! They are getting close there. If there's still that sorta swelling per the photos on the last page of your other thread, I would be inclined to believe that he may have a small bone infection there. In those instances, my avian vets usually prescribe amoxycillin (Clavamox). You can buy some thru Jedds...I think they call it BirdMox or something like that...just search for amoxycillin on their homepage.

Has he still been consistently on meds...or did his regimen end ? There is a point where one doesn't wanna keep bombing them with meds, one after the other....

....but IMHO, that swollen remain of a toe is saying "not ready for the Feral World quite yet."


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Or, warm the Feathers as Jaye mentions...and use a Toothbrush maybe...just 'brushing' one-way of course...to clean.

Is this like Oxidised Cooling Oils ? 'Waxy' gummy?


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## DanceBiscuit (Jun 12, 2010)

i'll give it another try later. I clipped the feathers that were really caked up bad(about half way)

I will have pictures a bit later/tomorrow when he calms down. He seems really flustered to me(probably from all the handling and bathing). I'll try to take a few pictures through the bars of the cage and post if they turn out...

EDIT: apologies, its 2am here. I will give a proper update when i wake


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Oat Hay...


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## DanceBiscuit (Jun 12, 2010)

Awright.
I'm going to go out to find lice spray. I was checking out his feathers today and noticed a lot of eggs on his throat feathers(He's too squirmy right now to take clear pictures of those tiny things) He's putting up great struggles when I try to get him 'burrito'ed, which I find encouraging both because he doesn't like human contact and that his strength is up.

(I also want to mention here that I've organized all my pigeon pictures, so please check out Trouper's chronological album for all his pictures.

Here are the feathers, post washing. The mystery waxy/gummy substance has been broken up, but its still filmy on the feathers. I will try the toothbrush idea, but I'm doing little more than scraping the gunk off which bothers him:









And now the foot: I was cleaning off what looked like caked poop on the scab, and found quite a large chunk of cyst(whitish/yellow, cottage cheezey clumps) which was forcing its way through a crack in the scab. I carefully picked the chunks out, cleaned up the wound and polysporined the tip. This morning I found him sleeping standing on that foot(which he had often avoided standing on) so again, a good sign:

















Jaye: I finished with the first run of meds, and I agree with the bone infection thought, how much amoxicillin does he need? Do you have a dosing chart for a single pigeon?


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

You can also mix an Antibiotic in a teaspoon of Water, adding a few drops of 'DMSO', and apply topically with a Q-Tip...this will be absorbed then quite directly into the effected area directly. Use say, a Shot Glass, and then keep it covered so the solution does not evaporate.

Massaging the effected area immediately prior to this and after will also help.


Systemic Antibiotics will tend to have a hard time reaching well into conditions like this, but, may be used, of course...if ideally, one would do both.


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## DanceBiscuit (Jun 12, 2010)

pdpbison said:


> You can also mix an Antibiotic in a teaspoon of Water, adding a few drops of 'DMSO', and apply topically with a Q-Tip


What is DMSO?


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethyl_sulfoxide


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## DanceBiscuit (Jun 12, 2010)

thank you,

can I use diatomaticus powder/earth on him to kill the mites? I've heard of it being used and read about it even being put on chicken's feed,...


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Lets see if we can determine what exactly he has.

Mites are not Body Lice are not Feather Lice are not...

Etc...

Does he have Feather Lice? Body Lice, or Mites?


I hope not all three????!!!!!



Lol...


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## DanceBiscuit (Jun 12, 2010)

There's definitely Feather Lice(and eggs), I think that's about it luckily


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Just Comb them off with a Toothbrush...and, also, use a 'Spray' for Pet Bird Lice issues, and carefully 'mist' it onto the Feathers, making sure to cover his Head with some cloth so as not to get any onto his Eyes or Nares and so on.

Feather Lice are not really any thing to worry about, unless they are really harming the Feathers a lot, and usually they do not.


Now, he had some sort of 'gummyness' or other on his Feathers also?


Is there an odor to this?


Rancid Cooking Oil ( from dumpsters ) is the usual culprit...making for a waxy-gummy sort of condition, and this tends to have a rancid odor. It will not shampoo off.

Time along, and growing new Feathers is about all one can oversee for that...if that is what it is.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

DB - typical dosage for an average-sized adult Feral is a suspension of 125mg/ml given .25cc twice a day, orally. 5-7 days.

I dunno, we are doing guesswork here, but I know on most of the rescues I have had with foot/toe swelling which Cipro didn't alleviate, one week of Amoxycillin or Clavamox knocked it right out.

As for the lice...per Phil. As for the feather grunge...you just gotta keep at it with repeated washings and brushings. Each time it gets less and less, and eventually his true colors will come shining thru !

Keep it up !


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## DanceBiscuit (Jun 12, 2010)

Hello and update: the foot is looking good. the amoxicillin is powdered so i can't really weigh it out(i know, stupid mistake when checking out online...) but I mixed some in water and rubbed it on Trouper's foot which is looking very hopeful! pics later...

I dusted him with diatomaticus earth, and have to check if it did anything, but I've noticed that he was generous enough to share the feather lice with Viktor, which isn't too good. I gave him a quick d.e. dust and after looking through older posts, I've decided to try the borax bath idea, since its the most immediately feasable strategy I could find. I want to beat this asap...

Feather grunge has been broken up substantiously. luckily it was only on his chest, and not on the wings where flight could be impaired, so lucky that. I will continue washing/brushing the feathers while waiting for the foot to heal up a bit more, then it will be time to release this guy. He's been getting more and more combative with me, so I think he's pretty antsy to head back to his flock of buddies...


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

DanceBiscuit said:


> Hello and update: the foot is looking good. the amoxicillin is powdered so i can't really weigh it out(i know, stupid mistake when checking out online...) but I mixed some in water and rubbed it on Trouper's foot which is looking very hopeful! pics later...


Hi DB,


In this situation, an Antibiotic would have to be in a liquid suspension, and, with 'DMSO' added, or it is not going to do anything nor be absorbable if applied to a Foot or Toe.



> I dusted him with diatomaticus earth, and have to check if it did anything, but I've noticed that he was generous enough to share the feather lice with Viktor, which isn't too good. I gave him a quick d.e. dust and after looking through older posts, I've decided to try the borax bath idea, since its the most immediately feasable strategy I could find. I want to beat this asap...
> 
> Feather grunge has been broken up substantiously. luckily it was only on his chest, and not on the wings where flight could be impaired, so lucky that. I will continue washing/brushing the feathers while waiting for the foot to heal up a bit more, then it will be time to release this guy. He's been getting more and more combative with me, so I think he's pretty antsy to head back to his flock of buddies...



Well...they usually resent being fussed with, regardless...Lol...


Phil
Lv


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## DanceBiscuit (Jun 12, 2010)

Haha, of course they resent being fussed with. What I meant was that he's much fussier and stronger, putting up a decent fight, it seems his strength is really regaining, and that's encouraging.


Anyhoo, a few pictures of the afflicted foot. All I feel now is bone, the pad of his foot isn't swollen like it was, and the fact that he's using/pearching on that foot is a good sign. (this was after polysporin, the stump ios scabbed up good)

















Also, his feathers, though still grimy, at least they're no longer all clumped up:


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Getting there. 

You have to figure out the strength of the Amoxy powder and then dilute it to 125mg/ml.

So, basically...what is the strength ? It should give some sort of strength somewhere on the jar, no ? (i.e. maybe it's one tsp = 500mg, etc. etc.... and then extrapolate it ~ i.e. "if one tsp = 500mg, and I need 125mg/ml suspension...then that's 1 tsp diluted into 4ml of water = 500mg/4ml, which = 125mg/ml")

That would be the oral suspension. I like the idea of the DMSL. I do feel an oral antibiotic should be given as well.


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## DanceBiscuit (Jun 12, 2010)

Hi Jaye, the amoxy is 10%, and the bottle only says to put 1tsp per gal. of water.
The bottle is 100grams, therefore it contains a total of 10grams of amoxy.

Am I right to deduce that 1.25grams of the powder will contain 125mgs of amoxy? And if so, I am to dilute it in 1ml of water and administer .25cc orally twice a day, oraly for a week.

Can someone double check my notes before I proceed?

ps: toe is still healing nicely


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

A Teaspoon is supposedly 5 Millilitres...

A Tablespoon is like supposedly 14.7 ( call it 15 ) Millilitres...

Are you sure it is calling for a Tsp and not a Tablespoon?

If 'Teaspoon', you could just use 1.25 mL ( ie: 1/4th of a Gallon's worth, ) to a Quart, refrigerate, and let that be his drinking Water.


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## DanceBiscuit (Jun 12, 2010)

apologies, it was 1tsp per gallon.

Wouldn't it be best to feed him a suspension to ensure he gets a proper dose?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

> Am I right to deduce that 1.25grams of the powder will contain 125mgs of amoxy?


DanceBiscuit, your math is correct for what you set out, there would be 125mg of pure med (Amoxicillin) in each 1.25 grams (1250mg) of the mixed med you have, but unless you have an extremely accurate scientific/jeweler's scale, very hard to measure out. The 10% figure means there are 100mg of pure Amoxicillin in every 1000mg of powder.

For your purposes it's best to know that there are basically 5 grams (5000mg)of measured weight, in a powdered med, to each level cooking teaspoon measured out (fill spoon, don't pack down, then level with a swipe across of a knife). So if you measured out a teaspoon of the med you have it would have approximately 500mg of pure Amoxicillin in it (10% of 5000mg= 500mg). If you took a teaspoon of your mix and added it to 1/2 a teaspoon of water and 1/2 a teaspoon of syrup (this would equal 5mL total) you would end up with a suspension of 100mg/mL (a 10% suspension) and you could give 0.30mL BID (30mg, twice a day) of this (about 6 drops).

Karyn


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## DanceBiscuit (Jun 12, 2010)

thank you Karyn. I made the suspension and was able to administer it to a very irate burritoed Trouper, haha


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Dobato said:


> DanceBiscuit, your math is correct for what you set out, there would be 125mg of pure med (Amoxicillin) in each 1.25 grams (1250mg) of the mixed med you have, but unless you have an extremely accurate scientific/jeweler's scale, very hard to measure out. The 10% figure means there are 100mg of pure Amoxicillin in every 1000mg of powder.
> 
> For your purposes it's best to know that there are basically 5 grams (5000mg)of measured weight, in a powdered med, to each level cooking teaspoon measured out (fill spoon, don't pack down, then level with a swipe across of a knife). So if you measured out a teaspoon of the med you have it would have approximately 500mg of pure Amoxicillin in it (10% of 5000mg= 500mg). If you took a teaspoon of your mix and added it to 1/2 a teaspoon of water and 1/2 a teaspoon of syrup (this would equal 5mL total) you would end up with a suspension of 100mg/mL (a 10% suspension) and you could give 0.30mL BID (30mg, twice a day) of this (about 6 drops).
> 
> Karyn


Thank you, Dobato.....once we get talking teaspoons and such...it becomes a mind-bender for me, too.....(I like metrics and such  )


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Jaye, as you know, sometimes for me as well, although I am fairly used to the math and measures, I usually have to read what I am posting a number of times to make sure I got things right.

Karyn


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## DanceBiscuit (Jun 12, 2010)

Karyn, are there a few formulas/conversions I should write out to keep handy?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

DanceBiscuit, the site linked below will give you a good place to start. Mainly it's getting to know the math and suggested dosing range for the meds, this will take you some time to become familiar with and I still usually have to double check to make sure I remembered things right. Where it can get confusing sometimes is that for some meds there are a number of suggested dosing ranges, some with quite a broad range, and then having to decide what dose to chose among these ranges.

http://www.pigeoncote.com/vet/formulary/formulary.html

Karyn


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## DanceBiscuit (Jun 12, 2010)

That's exactly what I needed, thank you, Karyn!


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## DanceBiscuit (Jun 12, 2010)

Trouper update: His foot is healing nicely, and has been receiving Amoxicillin. He hasn't shown any discomfort and has taken to occasionally bullying the second stringfoot rescue. Will post pictures of him tomorrow. I believe he will be getting another good bath and toothbrush scrub so he can really make an 'entrance' when he's ready to be returned...


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Very good...nice to hear..!


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## DanceBiscuit (Jun 12, 2010)

Trouper was released this morning. He seemed so happy to be free again. That being said, at the same spot, I saw a pigeon with a broken wing. This is just unreal, haha


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Glad to hear Trouper is back among his pals, with greatly happier Feets..!


Once one begins to cultivate one's attention for noticing Pigeons who are in some compromise or distress...one will find them!


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