# My feral pigeon, friend of 2 years, suddenly stopped flying



## FoundSickDove (Apr 7, 2009)

I had a feral pigeon for several years. Two years ago, I saved her from viral infection (PMV), death, by tube feeding her, etc, for many weeks. But I could not let her back into the wild - she lost one eye, her grip was weak, etc. But otherwise, she became a good friend to me. She used to lay eggs, regularly, and I substituted eggs for wooden. Two days ago, she laid her last egg (four days ago, she laid first of the batch), and suddenly lost ability to fly. The eggs look normal, as usual. Her food was at 6 feet high, but her nest was on the floor. So, she always flew to her food. Today, she kept looking up there where the food is, tried to fly, but could not. She looked as if possibly in pain after the attempt, and she did not put her wings back as usual - she had her wings a bit open and drooped for a while after attempt to fly. That's why I presumed she was in pain. She has grit, egg shells. Her food is black sun flower seeds that she loves, wheat, other grains, etc. Poop looks watery, but colors are usual: green and white. When I set the food on the floor, she started to eat and ate almost the usual amount (substantial). But she cannot fly. The pigeon is no more than 5 years old. On the day before she laid her first egg (about 6 days ago) she vomited all her food and grit. But she did not vomit again (she vomited only once, one day before laying egg). She is my friend / pet. I do not have any other pigeons. I do not have any friends, either. If she dies, it will be very sad thing for me. She lives in my bedroom. We lived together for 2 years like that.

CONCLUSION (SUMMARY): Pigeon had Vitamin D3 deficiency. As soon as I gave her Vitamin D3, she immediately recovered.
Vitamin D3 is not the same as Vitamin D for humans. Vitamin D3 is very different, and it is found at bird stores.
Vitamin regimen: one drop, per several ounces of water, once a week, or even every other week. Do NOT follow instructions on the bottle which suggest use of colossal amount of Vitamin D3. If you add such huge amounts of Vitamins into the water, even you (the human) will get VERY SICK. I tried it, with human vitamins, and I got very sick, vomiting, nauseating, etc. Live beings need very small amounts of vitamins! Corporations try to sell huge amounts of bottles of vitamins - they need profit, not health.


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## Anim3 Kitt3n 666 (Apr 16, 2011)

Hi!
I'm new to this. You might already assume this, but the pigeon sounds ill to me. All I can say right about now is keep the food at ground level and if she keeps vomiting then there might be something beyond what I know... She's not the only one you have right?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

FoundSickDove, could you post up a photo of the latest droppings and her? Has she vomited since the incident you describe and is she eating and drinking well. Because something may have been going on for a while, I think her condition should be treated as serious, do you have a vet you could take her to and do you have any meds on hand?

Karyn


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Thanks for the photo, but if you could upload another, of how she looks right now, this would be more helpful. I re-read your post and sorry somehow I did not see the part where you mention she has not vomited again. Sometimes hens, after laying eggs, can lose their ability to walk well, or at all, and the same goes with flying. We usually treat this with a few doses of calcium supplements, such as a 1/4 tablet of Caltrate (with added Vit D) popped down the mouth, every second day for a few days and most times this does the trick, as laying eggs really depletes their calcium reserves. However, I don't like hearing that she vomited, although only once, and that she is doing loose, green droppings, is she sitting the eggs, as this may help explain the look of the droppings. It may be worthwhile to start her on the Caltrate tonight and see how she is in the morning.

You forgot to reply about a vet and the meds and I will check back in a while for any new photos.


Karyn


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

I agree, given that this happened at the same time as the egg laying, it sure sounds like temporary egg paralysis. However, I wouldn't quite breath a sigh of relief as of yet. 
Go for the supplements as Dobato suggests, and see if that improves things; also let us know if any other symptoms appear. That she is eating and alert is a real good sign. Don't worry....keep us posted.

BTW we have a member in Portland who knows a lot about this stuff. Would you like me to e-mail her ?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

> She ate about one egg shell per day, for a week, before she laid her eggs.


Could you explain more fully what you means by this, I think I know what you mean, but please fill in the details to make sure I am correct.

Here is the thing, to be properly absorbed by the body, calcium needs to be accompanied by vitamin D for proper absorption. Right now, if she were mine, I would go get the Caltrate (these are 600mg pills with added vitamin D) and give her 1/4 pill every second day for 2-3 doses.

Like I mentioned, it could just be egg laying paralysis, which is temporary, and within a few days they are normally back up and running, but I don't want to over look the other things you described and not give them a full looking into, to make sure she does not have any other issues that need addressed.

Karyn


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Yes, this is exactly what I thought, thanks for laying it out. Again, I will suggest this one more time, in case I was not being clear enough. Right now I believe she need an immediate boost, from a few high doses of calcium supplementation (with vitamin D), to address the immediate symptoms she is suffering from possible egg paralysis, supplementing with some vitamins, to go along with the egg shells she has previously consumed, is not going to substitute for doing this.

Also, with her droppings, since she has been through this process a number of times now with you, do they look substantially different (read; bad looking) that the other times she has sat eggs?

Karyn


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

MY friend has the following suggestion:

"Tell him he can get oyster shell calcium 250mg with vitamin D, 125 IU at Rite Aid on 39th and Division St. He can give her 1/4 pill tonight and in the morning, again tomorrow night and for three days to follow. After that, 1/4 pill a day for 2 more days. That will give him time to buy a calcium supplement, with vitamin D3, specifically for birds."

Basically, pretty much the same idea Dobato has...high doses of calcium plus vit. D.

I agree, simply giving her a multivitamin at this stage is not going to alleviate the problem. Try to get the calcium tablets as suggested ASAP....


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

FoundSickDove said:


> Droppings do not look different. They look normal with exception of being watery.


Well, when you can, post up a clear, close-up photo and let's have a look at them.

Karyn


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## FoundSickDove (Apr 7, 2009)

*Lost ability to fly after laying eggs*

droppings (attached photo) look normal to me. They have been like that for long time. For about one year, they have been stinky because all she does is sit on her eggs, for about 15-20 days, then 1-2 weeks period between the egg sitting.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Thanks for the photo, it was helpful. While they are not perfectly formed and the color of the urates a little off, they are better than I was expecting and you're right, hens sitting eggs do have malodorous droppings at times. Why don't you start her on the calcium supplementation, if you haven't already, and see if this boost in calcium helps her. Also, just to further check, can you open her mouth and a good smell of her crop, lift and extend her neck a bit at the same time as opening her mouth, and see if it smells off or in any way "sour" to you. Does she ever have contact with outside birds or areas where wild bird's droppings may fall, does she ever have access to bare soil/earth areas? Just doing some routine checking while you're here.

Karyn


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I'll add a couple of things here...

It's not uncommon for birds kept primarily indoors to acquire a D3 insufficiency--it's kinda' hard to replace sunlight. If the vitamins that you give don't actually replace D3 in particular, they might not do a lot of good (going from heresay here).

Another thing to note is that it's VERY common for ferals to have a parasitic burden like roundworms in the intestinal lumen (the open area inside the tube). Worms like that will often absorb nutrients that the bird (or other animal) SHOULD be getting instead. That can cause problems that otherwise might not have happened--think of it as a "stack-up" of causes leading to visible effects. As such, we usually like to run fecal floats (a microscopic test) to find evidence or just plain out-and-out worm them to ease one's worries.

Pidgey


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Following from what Pidgey says, this is a standard calcium + D3 syrup which can be dosed in water or with a dropper individually.

http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/catalog/56.html


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

The reason I asked some of the questions I did was there is a tint to her droppings, the white part - called the urates, that is not quite sitting right with me, plus with the regurgitation (vomiting), I wanted to kind of make sure nothing was sliding by. There are a couple of protozoal infections, and worm infections, that they can pick up from contact with other birds, with their droppings, or from soil that these droppings may have broken down into. So if she if pecking at soil you are bringing her, the possibility of her picking up an outside infection can not be ruled out (I would stop letting her have access to soil, by the way).

It may be nothing, and she may continue to recover uneventfully, but since you came here for advice, mine would be to collect her droppings over a few days, keep them in a small container in the refrigerator, and have a fecal exam done on them, as Pidgey mentions. They are not expensive, a number of vets will do the exam without having to bring the bird in and with the GI upset and off color droppings, would be a good idea in my mind.

Karyn


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

FoundSickDove said:


> Very useful advice. I did not know that fecal exam can be done for birds (pigeons) without bringing them to the vet. I hope I can find such labs in Portland, Oregon. I hope that such test is available in Portland, Oregon.
> As to access to soil: I used to bring the soil for her because I thought they needed it for digestion, etc.
> Now, I will only give her grit. No soil.


To get you started, here is a short list of avian vets in your area, pulled from the Association of Avian Veterinarians website:

http://www.aav.org/search/results.php?filter=city&q=Portland&Submit=Search

Also, John posted a link to Foy's Pigeon Supplies, a few posts ago, I believe they will also to a fecal exam for you (you send them in the droppings). You can contact them:

http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/contact.html

Karyn


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## FoundSickDove (Apr 7, 2009)

*Regaining ability to fly*

She flew up to her old feeder, 6 feet high from the ground, despite the fact that her food was on the ground. Looks like after only one day of vitamin D3 and calcium treatment, she is recovering.
Thank you all for your concern, help and good information.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Here is an interesting link on Vit. D3. You might want to check it out.

http://www.ladygouldianfinch.com/features_vitamind.mgi


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## FoundSickDove (Apr 7, 2009)

*Wow! Most Important Post In My Entire Life!!!!*

Wow! You posted MOST IMPORTANT information, ever, that I ever heard about birds. That birds need vitamin D3 and that vitamin D2 (for humans) is not usable for birds! And all these people tell me to give human vitamin D pills to my pigeon! What a bunch of crock! You single-handedly saved my friend (pigeon) from certain death! I would have continued to feed her crushed calcium pills with vitamin D2, designed for humans! You are true Jesus in the dark world of misinformation.


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## FoundSickDove (Apr 7, 2009)

Dobato said:


> To get you started, here is a short list of avian vets in your area, pulled from the Association of Avian Veterinarians website:
> 
> http://www.aav.org/search/results.php?filter=city&q=Portland&Submit=Search
> 
> ...


Foy's Pigeon Supplies does NOT do a fecal exam. (I just received a reply from them.)


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

FoundSickDove said:


> Wow! You posted MOST IMPORTANT information, ever, that I ever heard about birds. That birds need vitamin D3 and that vitamin D2 (for humans) is not usable for birds! And all these people tell me to give human vitamin D pills to my pigeon! What a bunch of crock! You single-handedly saved my friend (pigeon) from certain death! I would have continued to feed her crushed calcium pills with vitamin D2, designed for humans! You are true Jesus in the dark world of misinformation.


FoundSickDove, I am sorry that Foy's does not do fecal exams, there are a few pigeon supply houses and I remember one time a member saying he had it done at one and for some reason Foy's came to mind, seems I was mistaken, perhaps another member will post up which supply house does do fecal testing.

However, I was not mistaken in advising the use of Caltrate 600+D, the form of vitamin D it contains is D3 (cholecalciferol), please see the link below. I am sorry you feel what you were told about giving human calcium pills, containing vitamin D was a crock, it was and is not crock information, it was accurate and good information (please see the link for product labeling inside the link below). 

http://www.caltrate.com/OurProducts/caltrate-600D.aspx

Good luck with your little one,

Karyn


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Dr Colin Walker attributes egg laying paralysis to inflammation of the sciatic nerve. He says "*Sometimes during laying the nerve can be pinched between the inside of the pelvis and the egg shell. This causes the nerve to become inflamed and means that any nerve impulse passed along its length is garbled....Anything that makes eggs more difficult to lay can predispose the hen to this problem. For example, calcium deficiency can either decrease the strength of oviduct contraction or interfere with shell formation, both of which lead to prolonged egg laying. In the same way, hens that are overweight or lay big eggs are also vulnerable*".

I wonder if age also has something to do with it. We didn't have a single case of egg-laying paralysis in 10 years, then two hens were affected. One is 6 years old being kept indoors at the time, the other one is over 8 years old and was in an open aviary...they both always have a dish of mineral grit available.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Foy's used to do them, so that's probably why they came to mind. They just don't do them any more. Better to bring it in somewhere anyway. That way it is fresher. Lots of people were not very satisfied with Foys testing results. But they have stopped doing them anyway.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

FoundSickDove said:


> Wow! You posted MOST IMPORTANT information, ever, that I ever heard about birds. That birds need vitamin D3 and that vitamin D2 (for humans) is not usable for birds! And all these people tell me to give human vitamin D pills to my pigeon! What a bunch of crock! You single-handedly saved my friend (pigeon) from certain death! I would have continued to feed her crushed calcium pills with vitamin D2, designed for humans! You are true Jesus in the dark world of misinformation.



The info. in that article is very good, but if you look at the calcium pills, you will see that some do have the D3. You just have to make sure that it has it. The Caltrate does.


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## FoundSickDove (Apr 7, 2009)

PS / Afterword. Please, post it somewhere in the appropriate section. I noticed that droppings do not stink anymore. I think Vitamin D deficiency caused droppings to be very foul smelling. In the past, I attributed this foul smell to sitting on eggs 24 hours per day, but my pigeon sits 24 hrs per day now and droppings do not smell much.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, now, that's interesting...

I usually don't worry so much about the wild pigeons that come to me to rehab because they live in the sun, but I'll keep it in mind for my loft birds that cannot ever get out. Thanks!

Pidgey


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Pidgey said:


> Well, now, that's interesting...
> 
> I usually don't worry so much about the wild pigeons that come to me to rehab because they live in the sun, but I'll keep it in mind for my loft birds that cannot ever get out. Thanks!
> 
> Pidgey


An aviary or somewhere they can get out into the sunshine would be good, if possible. But vitamins are always a good idea.


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## FoundSickDove (Apr 7, 2009)

CONCLUSION (SUMMARY): Pigeon had Vitamin D3 deficiency. As soon as I gave her Vitamin D3, she immediately recovered. 
Vitamin D3 is not the same as Vitamin D for humans. Vitamin D3 is very different, and it is found at bird stores.
Vitamin regimen: one drop, per several ounces of water, once a week, or even every other week. Do NOT follow instructions on the bottle which suggest use of colossal amount of Vitamin D3. If you add such huge amounts of Vitamins into the water, even you (the human) will get VERY SICK. I tried it, with human vitamins, and I got very sick, vomiting, nauseating, etc. Live beings need very small amounts of vitamins! Corporations try to sell huge amounts of bottles of vitamins - they need profit, not health.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You add this 5 1/2 years later?
The vitamin D in human calcium pills is vitamin D3.


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