# Pigeon care



## buckcreek (Jun 20, 2014)

Hi, I'm Joan and this is my first post. I love pigeons and we've had them for several years. I have a question I hope someone can help me with.

We have an enclosed pigeon area outside with a pigeon house inside. We started with a few pigeons and now we have a lot. About a year ago we started taking the eggs away so we wouldn't be getting anymore. We don't let them out because we are worried about hawks and other predators. They can fly in their area but it's not like being free. We seem to lose one every so often and the bird doesn't appear to be hurt although some of them or older. They have plenty of food and water but I'm wondering if there is something else we should be doing. I would like to be able to let them out and have them come back to get food and water at night so they would be safe. I just want to do what is best for them. I don't know if maybe some medication might help. We do have a few bantam chickens that share the area with them but they don't bother the pigeons. I think the pigeons enjoyed the babies and taking care of them but we had to remove the eggs to keep down overcrowding. They had started pecking the new babies and we couldn't have that. Any ideas?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

chickens need to be removed and have their own space, they can harbor things that can take a pigeon but they are just carriers. it is just easier and less danger for the pigeons if they don't have insect or meat eating pecking type birds in with them. 

problems can happen with the hens if you collect the pigeon's eggs like you would chicken eggs, reason is pigeons are not made to lay everyday, but if their eggs are taken they try again too soon and deplete their calcium store in their bodies. then you can get egg bound hens that can expire if the egg gets stuck, calcium not only builds a good shell but also helps the hen contact to get the egg out. so what you need to change is the practice of NOT leaving the pair to sit fake eggs , the fake eggs can be found at pigeons supplies sites online. you would put the fake in after the second egg is layed and toss the real ones..or feed it to nature if you want. some reptile owners may be interested for their snakes.

also, having crushed oysteshell availible everyday is a calcium source to help them add more when needed. but they need to feel safe to get at it and eat it and not have a chicken lurking near to chase them off the floor territory.


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## buckcreek (Jun 20, 2014)

Thank you for the information. I will go online and see if I can order some fake eggs. Maybe that will help with the problem.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

buckcreek said:


> Hi, I'm Joan and this is my first post. I love pigeons and we've had them for several years. I have a question I hope someone can help me with.
> 
> We have an enclosed pigeon area outside with a pigeon house inside. We started with a few pigeons and now we have a lot. About a year ago we started taking the eggs away so we wouldn't be getting anymore. We don't let them out because we are worried about hawks and other predators. They can fly in their area but it's not like being free. We seem to lose one every so often and the bird doesn't appear to be hurt although some of them or older. They have plenty of food and water but I'm wondering if there is something else we should be doing. I would like to be able to let them out and have them come back to get food and water at night so they would be safe. I just want to do what is best for them. I don't know if maybe some medication might help. We do have a few bantam chickens that share the area with them but they don't bother the pigeons. I think the pigeons enjoyed the babies and taking care of them but we had to remove the eggs to keep down overcrowding. They had started pecking the new babies and we couldn't have that. Any ideas?


Hi,
Welcome to PT
Here on PT we had members who told themselves that chicken ate their pigeon squabs from the nest. Chicken can be mean sometimes. Chicken are born fighters. Not only squabs but adult pigeons are also at risk of attack.
And if you let your chicken out to forage,since they eat almost everything that comes their way,they can bring in worms and diseases which isn't good for your pigeons.
You can keep pigeons and chicken on the same property but they must not be housed together. Their coops must be 10-20 feet away from each other.

Few medications/things must always be in your drawer in case you need them. Those are meds for canker,cocci,dewormers,carbyl dust for external parasites,supplements,broad anti-bacterials and..... fake eggs. So that you can switch real eggs with fake ones when they're laid. Your hens will sit on fake eggs for 18-22 days and will eventually abandon them naturally. The timeperiod for which your hens would sit on fake eggs will give them rest and allow them to replenish their reserves so that they don't get sick.

Hawks/falcons are becoming huge headache for pigeon keepers worldwide. They say hawks/falcons are endangered but it don't appear to me like that. Okay,if hawks and falcons take one bird in a while then not a big deal its part of the game. One shouldn't lock his birds up for that. But if strikes are frequent then please lock your birds up so that hawks/falcons don't associate your area with free meals and stick around there forever to raise family. Lock your birds up for a month and then check out for any hawk sightings. Also try to fly your birds at a different time everyday so that hawks can't expect them at a particular time.


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## buckcreek (Jun 20, 2014)

*Pigeon Care*

Thank you Jass. Can you tell me where to go online to get the fake eggs and the medications you mentioned? I would like to order them today and get started, I didn't know they would deplete their calcium so that could be a big part of the problem. 

I have never let them out to fly because I was afraid too. I have about 6 homing pigeons a man gave me because he was going to kill them. He's into releasing them and timing how long it takes for them to come back and they didn't fit into what he wanted in a pigeon. I've had them for at least a year. He said if they got out they would go back to his place, is that still true after all this time? I would love to let them out a few hours a day and then have them all come back before dark but since I have never done it I worry about the danger. I know they would love it and it would be good for them. What do you think?


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

buckcreek said:


> Thank you Jass. Can you tell me where to go online to get the fake eggs and the medications you mentioned? I would like to order them today and get started, I didn't know they would deplete their calcium so that could be a big part of the problem.
> 
> I have never let them out to fly because I was afraid too. I have about 6 homing pigeons a man gave me because he was going to kill them. He's into releasing them and timing how long it takes for them to come back and they didn't fit into what he wanted in a pigeon. I've had them for at least a year. He said if they got out they would go back to his place, is that still true after all this time? I would love to let them out a few hours a day and then have them all come back before dark but since I have never done it I worry about the danger. I know they would love it and it would be good for them. What do you think?


That was a good deed indeed,saving those six birds from being prosecuted on human racing terms. Appreciated.
Homing pigeons have a strong homing instinct. When let out they always try to find their birth loft. Since your birds have been trained before,they won't settle down at your place easily. Homing pigeons are known to go back to their birth lofts even after 5 - 10 years of being kept at another loft. But it all depends on their quality. If they have good quality blood in them they will most definitely try to go back to their birth loft. So don't let them out free.
But if you wanna see your birds fly around your loft and never leave(which is coolest thing about pigeons) you can let them breed. Their offsprings will be your homebred pigeons,loyal to your loft and will fly for you.

Please google pigeon supply places and checkout availability and price which suits you the best. There are many places to buy products for pigeons like Jedds,siegels,new england supplies etc. Try googling them,if you don't find I'll be happy to help.
You'll find some varieties of fake eggs. Google solid plastic fake eggs. Or Go for solid plastic fake eggs on pigeon supply places. They are the best. Dip them in water for some mins if they get dirty and they are shiny as new.
For canker,you'll need metronidazole for individual treatment and ronidazole for flock prevention.
For anti bacterials, Baytril will be drug of choice. Try to get doxycycline also. They both combined together,if needed will work for e.coli and respiratory too.
For deworming(not all dewormers are safe for pigeons,many are toxic which works for parrots and chicken. Pigeons and doves are different from all others), Moxidectin PLUS(not regular moxidectin) but moxidectin PLUS will be first and foremost choice. It kills almost all the worms a pigeon can have and works against external parasites too. Get liquid ivermectin also that can be used in rotation and can be added to their bathing water to kill external parasites. Moxidectin plus and ivermectin are safest products for pigeons.
For external parasites,permethrin/carbyl dust may be used for instant results. Sevin dust is the brand.
For pigeons oyster shell based grit would be best as oyster shell contains many or should I say almost all the trace minerals pigeons would need.
For supplements water soluble ones work great for pigeons. I like to get those that are based on b vitamins.

Since you keep chicken,you might have some of the stuff already on your hands.


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## buckcreek (Jun 20, 2014)

The six birds I rescued are the only ones I have that weren't born here. We started with one that just showed up one day and then got a few to keep her company. Before very long we had a lot and it was getting crowded and the adults were pecking the babies on the head trying to kill them. I ended up hand feeding several babies and they were so sweet. That's when I decided to take the eggs away. I imagine the original ones we bought are probably gone now so all the ones we have were born here. With that in mind if I keep the 6 I rescued apart from the others then they should fly around and come back, right? How do I get them to come back in? Do they just come back when they get ready? Will they travel very far? Sorry for so many questions. I may have close to a hundred birds but it's kind of hard to count them. Thank you so much for your help.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

You're welcome with your questions.
Wow! 100 birds are quiet a number.
Yes the ones born at your loft will stay here if they settle themselves at your loft which I think they have. Yes you can take chances and let them out free but you MAY loose some birds that way by letting out captive birds at once. The best method would be to trap train them first.
Do you have a trap door fixed to your loft? You would need to let you birds out on landing board preferably in a cage and train them to come in the loft via trap when you call them with feed calls.
For that you need to stop free feeding. Start feeding twice a day. Give feed in feeders for 10 mins in mornings and 10 mins in evening. Let them eat all they can in 10 mins and then remove feeders afterwards. Cage them on landing board and call them in to come in via trap when they are HUNGRY when you make feed calls inside the loft. For that you will have to cage them out hungry. By caging them on landing board they will accustom themselves to your lofts surroundings. When they are used to your loft,trained to trap in and respond to your feed calls then you can let them out without cage and let them wander around your property hungry and call them in via trap door making feed calls. Then after some days when you see them confident you can fly some by making few birds sit on landing board and see if they come back which they will. If they come back it will mean they are settled at your loft and you can let them out to free fly anytime you want(not when its about to get dark)


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

buckcreek said:


> The six birds I rescued are the only ones I have that weren't born here. We started with one that just showed up one day and then got a few to keep her company. Before very long we had a lot and it was getting crowded and the adults were pecking the babies on the head trying to kill them. I ended up hand feeding several babies and they were so sweet. That's when I decided to take the eggs away. I imagine the original ones we bought are probably gone now so all the ones we have were born here. With that in mind if I keep the 6 I rescued apart from the others then they should fly around and come back, right? How do I get them to come back in? Do they just come back when they get ready? Will they travel very far? Sorry for so many questions. I may have close to a hundred birds but it's kind of hard to count them. Thank you so much for your help.


before going off on another subject....
IMO, what you need to concentrate on right now is hatch control. learning the in's and out's of trap training can come later as it can seem complicated at first. so it is best to keep information simple and settle one thing at a time.

if you have googled pigeon supply, I tend to like new england and siegles pigeon, siegles I think may be in your state, most of these are in the USA, our country and easlily ordered from. ALSO if you have questions most of the sites you can contact and ask questions. you may have to get at least a hundred eggs. YOU CAN swap from one to another as they give up on the fake eggs because they did not hatch , avoid taking the fakes out too soon, I try to leave them there untill they lay another clutch at about 20 days after laying on the fakes some earlier some later.. 100 pigeons just for pets is allot and seem to be getting out of control, it must cost to feed all those too. investing in the eggs will help you feel more in control but you have to be vigilent in checking every week.. pick a day of the week and check for new real eggs and replace them with a fake, if you do that then you won't end up with any oops babies..which can happen if you lack behind in checking.

I would think about advertising some of the pigeons for sale .. to good homes of course, and keeping only what you want.


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## buckcreek (Jun 20, 2014)

You are right, I need to get a handle on my pigeons. I did put an ad in the paper one time and the only call I got was from the guy that wanted to get rid of his 6 pigeons. He was going to kill them so of course I went and got them. That didn't help but I didn't want him to kill them. They are beautiful birds.

I just have them for pets and didn't realize the rate of reproduction, even in the winter when it's freezing they have babies. I didn't know about the fake eggs but I have some ordered along with some Calcium to mix with the water to hopefully help the females. I think trying to let them out is not a good idea for now so I will just try to work on not reproducing and keeping the females healthy. I never intended to raise pigeons but it just kind of happened. I do love them, they are so fun to watch and I love to photograph them. Thank you for you help, I really appreciate it.


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## buckcreek (Jun 20, 2014)

Jass, thank you for the information. I ordered some fake eggs and some calcium for the water. Hoping that will help the females with the calcium problem. I ordered some wood and some plastic but they aren't solid. I got them from Siegel. Hope those will work ok. I don't think I will try to let them out right now but maybe after I get the other problems solved I will give it a try. That doesn't sound real easy either but plan to try it later. I'll let you know how it goes with the fake eggs.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Fakes eggs and stuff won't obstruct you letting your birds out. You can do it for an hour in morning and in evening. Infact exercise will HELP them. They will like it. Replacing real eggs with fake ones don't have anything to do with them being trained in your situation because you will not let them raise young. Infact this is what people do,they buy homers,breed them and try their young out. Fake eggs would just be a part,not a deal that will affect them.
Infact,this is a PERFECT time for them to be out. After that fall will arrive and birds will start to moult. Those moulting heavily are not let out as they can become prey targets as they can't fly 100%. And after that there will be hawks migratory time and then winters will arrive. In these times birds are kept inside. *So its your time to let them out and try them.*


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

You can post an ad here on PT in other forum "Birds for Sale...". Hope someone buy them.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

if most of the birds are hatched there then they should be settled there. a homer not hatched there may fly off if let out. If you are willing to accept mother nature and some of the pigeons to be eaten by a bird of prey then fly your birds. only you can decide to do that. you do live in HAWKinsville GA...lol...


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## buckcreek (Jun 20, 2014)

Jass SamOplay said:


> Fakes eggs and stuff won't obstruct you letting your birds out. You can do it for an hour in morning and in evening. Infact exercise will HELP them. They will like it. Replacing real eggs with fake ones don't have anything to do with them being trained in your situation because you will not let them raise young. Infact this is what people do,they buy homers,breed them and try their young out. Fake eggs would just be a part,not a deal that will affect them.
> Infact,this is a PERFECT time for them to be out. After that fall will arrive and birds will start to moult. Those moulting heavily are not let out as they can become prey targets as they can't fly 100%. And after that there will be hawks migratory time and then winters will arrive. In these times birds are kept inside. *So its your time to let them out and try them.*


I will have to look into setting up a door for them to go out. I've seen them on TV but have not looked into making one. I would like to see them all flying around if they will stay close to their home. Do you check them for parasites often? I know chickens get mites and lice. I have some laying hens in a separate area and I had one not looking too good. I started reading and trying to find out what it was and I found out it was lice. I dusted her really good and put some ivomectin on her skin and she looks better today. I guess any bird can get these? Wild birds fly in and eat some of their food so that's probably where they came from. It's never boring having animals. We also have llamas, horses, and of course dogs and cats.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

found lice on one bird... you should treat all the birds.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Last time I dusted my birds was months ago. But recently a pair of feral ring neck doves have nested in my yard and they just don't go away from my pigeons. Since they carry them they gave it to my birds. Its very important never let your birds socialize with ferals. So I have to dust them regularly till the ringnecks raise their squabs and leave. Yes I do check for ecto/external parasite oftenly. Here where I live they affect pigeons in a major way in summers so I dust them even if I see a single fly or louse on their wings. Mites are hard to detect especially when less in numbers. External parasites suck blood and cause anemia opening window to other disease and yes, they do transmitt diseases among birds especially the viral ones. So I dust them for parasites if they have them. I don't dust the whole bird just under their wing pits,wing feathers and tail feathers all the way from where the start and all parasites die and fall off.

You may find this interesting to know that ecto/external parasites hide in the loft somewhere in the crevices,cracks,nests,floor bedding if much used and in dirt on the floor(if one has dirt floor). The parasites you see on birds in daytime are only 5-10% of the total population. Rest of the population hides in places in loft in daytime and come out to feed on birds at night. So for successful control of parasites not only birds must be dusted but the loft itself must be dusted as well. I personally don't like dusting the loft because if the loft's not properly ventilated the air will pick up the dust and birds will breathe it and will be irritated and may get nausea. So I prefer to spray my loft instead of dusting with a safe insecticide once a month (in summers especially.) Also I mix injectable ivermectin(a teaspoon in gallon of water) in their bathing water once/twice a week which helps.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

feather lice are not mites. mites take blood meals and some hide in the loft.. feather lice stay on the bird and live of the scuff of the feathers... there is s difference. too much info at once is not helpful. 

I use seven dust on birds with lice..it works fine...this is what we have here in the U.S.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Where did I say that mites are feather lice??? What are you talking about?

If I do it,I do it right


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

And I said I dust the wing and tail feather all the way from where they start to the end which indirectly means its lice and louse I'm talking about... I kept all perpectives in mind


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

too much info to go on and describe about ecto parasite that are mites .... he said the bird has lice, lice are not mites. now this is off track too.. not sure why you have to add so much info at once.. it is too much and confusing.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

No its not confusing. Its in its entirety and completeness,better to understand.
If his birds have lice why can't have mites. What makes you think that? Dusting will kill all...so what's the point,,,mites,lice,louse,ticks and stuff?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

mites are harder to kill and the loft has to be inoculated a few times maybe more ..it is a big ordeal.. they eat a blood meal unlike lice .. he never mentioned mites or symptoms there of so no Im not going to mention them. or think it's a good idea just to have something to post about to look smart..a person can go on about all kinds of worms parasites illness till you write a book, does not mean that it relates to a chicken who only has lice.. he said his chicken had lice. that is all. 

two words. seven dust.

now back to the thread.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Now you're talking...!


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Jass SamOplay said:


> Now you're talking...!


That makes no sense.. I give up.. move on.


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## ...Mani... (Sep 17, 2013)

Jass SamOplay said:


> Last time I dusted my birds was months ago. But recently a pair of feral ring neck doves have nested in my yard and they just don't go away from my pigeons. Since they carry them they gave it to my birds. Its very important never let your birds socialize with ferals. So I have to dust them regularly till the ringnecks raise their squabs and leave. Yes I do check for ecto/external parasite oftenly. Here where I live they affect pigeons in a major way in summers so I dust them even if I see a single fly or louse on their wings. Mites are hard to detect especially when less in numbers. External parasites suck blood and cause anemia opening window to other disease and yes, they do transmitt diseases among birds especially the viral ones. So I dust them for parasites if they have them. I don't dust the whole bird just under their wing pits,wing feathers and tail feathers all the way from where the start and all parasites die and fall off.
> 
> You may find this interesting to know that ecto/external parasites hide in the loft somewhere in the crevices,cracks,nests,floor bedding if much used and in dirt on the floor(if one has dirt floor). *The parasites you see on birds in daytime are only 5-10% of the total population. Rest of the population hides in places in loft in daytime and come out to feed on birds at night. *So for successful control of parasites not only birds must be dusted but the loft itself must be dusted as well. I personally don't like dusting the loft because if the loft's not properly ventilated the air will pick up the dust and birds will breathe it and will be irritated and may get nausea. So I prefer to spray my loft instead of dusting with a safe insecticide once a month (in summers especially.) Also I mix injectable ivermectin(a teaspoon in gallon of water) in their bathing water once/twice a week which helps.


I read this yesterday and don't believe it,honestly. So yesterday at 11:15pm before sleeping I went to check the loft. I was shocked to see the floor full of insects. There was black colored bugs in huge number. How can i control them? What products do you use? Please tell which are available here?


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

...Mani... said:


> I read this yesterday and don't believe it,honestly. So yesterday at 11:15pm before sleeping I went to check the loft. I was shocked to see the floor full of insects. There was black colored bugs in huge number. How can i control them? What products do you use? Please tell which are available here?


You can use Notix or Coopex dusts to dust your loft or there are sprays available for birds which you can use to spray around.

Well,I use something which I want nobody to use. I've been using it for time unknown and haven't found any ill results. I need no criticism on this. I use Baygon. I remove all the birds from loft,lock them up in a separate room and spray baygon early morning and close the lofts windows with plastic sheets for an hour as instructions say. Then after an hour I open all the windows till evening for good airflow throught the day so that no fumes remain in the loft. Then birds are reintroduced in the loft. Better be safe and don't use such products but I do it and don't promote it. You asked so I shared


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## ...Mani... (Sep 17, 2013)

Thanks for the feedback. Baygon is used in houses so it may be used for birds too. I've never read its instructions. Lets see what i can so!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If wild birds can get in and take their feed, then rodents can also get in, which will spread disease to your birds. Also having them very crowded will make the stress level go up, and then birds start getting sick. Possible to post a picture of where you keep them? Most use hardware cloth instead of wire with large holes in it, where other things can get in. How large is the area?


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## ThePigeonGene (May 30, 2014)

you can buy permethrin based products - just read the label for the main chemical. That is what I use on both by birds and inside my loft - obviously don't get it in their faces

I put the powder down even when my birds are in the loft - since some I don't let out.

Just don't make too much of a cloud or they will inhale it - get it in all the cracks and corners you can find. If its really bad I would put on the outside of the loft too, like between the loft and the wall etc, where ever you think the bugs might be hiding.

A friend of mine really only uses a blow torch and gets good results - if you know how to do it without catching your loft on fire.

Don't try the blow torch after putting any chemicals down!


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## Don Fischer (May 13, 2011)

Two things. About stopping eggs. you don't need fake eggs, just get a couple and hard boil them and then replace the eggs you don't want to hatch. About hawks, as long as you don't see them around, let your birds fly. Wait until evening so they have a couple hours to fly. You'll still probably lose one now and them but, the birds love flying. There's a lot of hawks in this state and in the past I have had trouble with them but, not letting them out to early seem's to have helped. My ferals fly free most the time and hawks don't get a lot of them either. If you do see a hawk, pay attention to where it's at. They choose places here where they can see the loft's well.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

seven dust gets rid of feather lice. as far as bugs in the loft every country has insects..some more than others, esp in warm climates.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

buckcreek said:


> I will have to look into setting up a door for them to go out. I've seen them on TV but have not looked into making one. I would like to see them all flying around if they will stay close to their home. Do you check them for parasites often? I know chickens get mites and lice. I have some laying hens in a separate area and I had one not looking too good. I started reading and trying to find out what it was and I found out it was lice. I dusted her really good and put some ivomectin on her skin and she looks better today. I guess any bird can get these? Wild birds fly in and eat some of their food so that's probably where they came from. It's never boring having animals. We also have llamas, horses, and of course dogs and cats.


all your birds should be treated for lice. the wire is another issue you may want to address so wild birds can't get in and other things as mentioned.


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