# How long should a bird be a Prisoner?



## SCOTTA1 (Sep 13, 2006)

I just bought 15 breeding pair from a guy about a month ago. I already had about 10 birds that have never flown.

Today I have several birds setting, some squabs out of nest now and so on.

without seperating (I like to have just 1 loft), when can I start opening up the loft to fly? 

will I be able to FLY in a couple months or late Fall?

When does a prisoner call his place home (my thinking is after nesting &raising )????

PLEASE ONLY EXPERIENCED REPLIES.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

SCOTTA1 said:


> I just bought 15 breeding pair from a guy about a month ago. I already had about 10 birds that have never flown.
> 
> Today I have several birds setting, some squabs out of nest now and so on.
> 
> ...


Not sure what you mean by experienced. Years with pigeons or someone who's actually "re-homed" a bird. 
I'll give you my short answer. I've raced pigeons for going on 6 years. Can a pigeon be re-homed? Yes, SOMETIMES. The ONLY way to know if you've sucessfully gotten the bird to recognize his new home is to turn him loose and find out. If it worked, then that's great. If it didn't work......where's the bird going to go? What will it find to eat? Will it starve to death. Will it go back to what it percieves to be it's "real" home? You don't know. It's all a gamble. 
There are many things that people do to get a bird to re-home. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. 
Depends on how much you care about the bird and how much value you put on his life. If you don't really care one way or the other if they stay or not, then you can see if it works. If you DO care what happens with the bird, you're best bet is to keep the prisoners and raise you're own babies to fly. They are called "homing" pigeons, not "re-homing" pigeons for a reason. They are also called "prisoners" for a reason.  
There will be others who don't agree with me. This is what happens when you get two or more pigeons people in the same "room".
You can take what I've said and anything else you are told and decide for yourself what you want to do. 
Good luck.


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## Happy (Dec 19, 2004)

I agree 100% with Renee AKA Lovebirds. If you don't want to build another Loft, then settle the young from these, then give the others to someone who needs breeders. Breeders are our BANK/RESERVES for Racing Pigeons, or any type of Pigeons. Happy


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## SCOTTA1 (Sep 13, 2006)

THANKS GUYS,

Although I knew someone would be offended by asking for exp. advice. I didnt wont alot of general feedback just the known facts. I have been in other forums (on R/C hobbies and stuff , you get smart #$%@% answers sometimes).

Yeah basically what I thought. Im just flying these birds . I dont plan on racing but just playing with them I guess. most of these birds are Jersey Janssen .

by fall I will have atleast a dozen or more young birds. so I guess if I lose 
a few it wont be so bad.
thanks for the reply.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Scott, I realize you are new at this. And I'm not trying to start controversy here, but..............the attitude that "if I loose a few, it won't be so bad" is not the attitude to take. 
There is a group call 911 Pigeon Alert. I and a few other members here are moderators for that group. When people find lost banded or unbanded pigeons for that matter, they turn them in to us and we are left to try to find the owner or find someone who will give the bird a home. They are found with broken wings, broken legs, mauled by cats, dogs, starved to the point that they can no longer fly. It's very sad. A lot of them just die before we can do anything to help them. I'm just one of the moderators, and I have between 40 and 50 birds that I am trying to help at any one time. 
If you don't want to keep prisoners, why not post here in our "adoptions" forum and see if anyone near you would like to take the birds.
We (the members) spend countless hours and dollars trying to save the birds that are lost and hurt. 
I hope you'll reconsider what you are contemplating doing.


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## SCOTTA1 (Sep 13, 2006)

ok there LOVEBIRD,


sorry but you are too controversial.

wheeeeeeeeeeewwww. now lets try again shall we.


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2007)

just read this and had to jump on board about your obvious ignorance and tone in here becuase other then being rude well if you knew anything about this so called stuff as you say you would have known that rehoming homers is like letting them go free for the most part ...but like you said you dont care if you lose them so why even ask when you had your mind made up already  this is a forum for pigeons an the care so all I have to ask you is if you didnt want so many prisoners why did you buy so many to begin with oh knowlegible one ??? 15 pairs ?? you could have gotten 12 babys off two pair in less then 6 months time to fly around


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## abisai (Jan 30, 2007)

Must be a full moon somewhere . . .


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

What's up with this!?

This must be beat up on Renee week! Renee, I thought your response was very well done. This guy reminds me how true it is that some people just don't want to hear the truth. It is one thing to have your opinion or way of doing things...that's fine, nobody will deny you that right. But sir, are you really that insecure that you have to go and make personal assumptions and attacks on someone you don't even know because she, very politely I might add, suggests that there may be ramifications for certain actions that you were not aware of? You sir, need to develope a little thicker skin than that. Renee did not attack you in any way. She merely suggested that you might want to look at some things a little differently.

Oh, and also, before you go attacking someone on this forum, you may save yourself a little humiliation and a lot of respect by first seeing who it is you are attacking. Did you notice, by chance, the number or posts this woman has made for no other reason than to try to help people that have come here with questions?

...of yea, that would include yourself!

Do us all a favor, if you didn't want answers to your questions that include personal experience and insight then why did you come to this forum and ask in the first place? That's what a forum like this does. 

There is a tremendous amount of knowledge on this forum for those that are willing to listen. 

Have a wonderful day!

Dan


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## SCOTTA1 (Sep 13, 2006)

LokotaLoft said:


> just read this and had to jump on board about your obvious ignorance and tone in here becuase other then being rude well if you knew anything about this so called stuff as you say you would have known that rehoming homers is like letting them go free for the most part ...but like you said you dont care if you lose them so why even ask when you had your mind made up already  this is a forum for pigeons an the care so all I have to ask you is if you didnt want so many prisoners why did you buy so many to begin with oh knowlegible one ??? 15 pairs ?? you could have gotten 12 babys off two pair in less then 6 months time to fly around


The man had to quit the hobby for personal reasons so he sold them all to me.
1.my question was not exactly stupid.
2. I got a great answer.
3. went down hill after that(not my fault)
4. you LokotaLoft also Ass umed crap
5 my tone was appropriate

this is why I hate to post anything theres always someone to flare it up.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

In the few years that I have been a member of this forum, I have learned one thing for sure...when a beloved member is presumed attacked, ALL members feel attacked. WE WILL DEFEND.

The basic foundation of this site is to help those who seek help with pigeons they find, are given, buy or are reseaching in hopes of obtaining a pigeon. We also increase our own knowledge with the help of other members.

I am very proud of this site and the members I have come to know and respect. They are "family" to me and I find myself very protective when I feel they have been unjustly vilified.

Any forum will have disagreements sooner or later. I know the Moderators do their best to MONITOR. 

Lively discussions about SITUATIONS with which we disagree is one thing...attacking a PERSON PERSONALLY is quite another and is not tolerated.

My daughter mentioned that there are people who deliberately go into sites to cause trouble...sure hope we are not one of them!

Shi


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2007)

whats to assume here  your post indicated clearly that you bought 15 pairs of birds you dont want to care for seperately , no one twisted your arm into taking them and we all know your not doing them a favor by just letting them out some day an seeing if they stay around or not .. I think you joined the wrong group as you seem to be a very angry person as far I have read in your posts ... your jumping to your own conclusions with the bashing of others with your peta claims along the way, talk about making (ass)..sumtions .. what people do here is called caring for living creatures ...(4. you LokotaLoft also Ass umed crap) and my oh my you are the clever one lol the only flare up I saw was your own lol


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## SCOTTA1 (Sep 13, 2006)

nope I yelled back so to speak about their assuming crap. i just edited everything out because its like dominoes or somthing people want to jump in and start kicking when they dont take a second to see what happend in the first place. gets worst. 


I just like to give a straight forward answer when someone asks me something . some people want to stir stuff up even if a good answer has been given.

the PETA thing was because I was offended (I was only asking about fling them)

I forgot to also mention that 3/4 of these birds have never left their loft (so my question was a good one but might not have been clear enough)


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Yes you can settle birds how often its a guess. How old, And how long you have them. Raise from them. Trap train them as you would a youngbird Relize all will not settle How far to the old loft are they? Many people do not try to settle old birds But just breed from them Old birds are strong in the wing take your time.


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## SCOTTA1 (Sep 13, 2006)

RE LEE

the old loft is about 12 Miles.

thanks for the reply


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Guess I must have missed something..........
Just want to say thanks for those members who saw that I in no way attacked this person.
ScottA1..................my response to you was in no way meant to start any kind of argument. 
I only TRY to point out things to people who ASK QUESTIONS that will benefit the BIRD. That's all. Pretty simple. 
I couldn't read your post and not respond, in a non-combative way. If I hadn't posted what I did, you can bet your last dollar that another member would have. Then they would have gotten "beat up" as Dan put it.
I've been "in trouble" all week with people, but it's Monday. I'll try again this week and see if I can do better.  
As long as I'm "in trouble" from trying to save a pigeon, I don't mind.


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## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

Hi SCOTTA1,

Just want to say that I'm sorry for the personnal attack you felt you received. I don't know what has happened of late but your right that it seems some have allowed their emotions to rule the day. Your also correct that some responses seem to be directly from the PETA handbook. 

But don't give up, unless good people, Young and Old alike are willing to step up and state the obvious it will never get better. Just one suggestion and I know it is hard for all, Try and stay away from the personal responses back at them. 

You asked a simple question (perhaps not as politically correct as some would have liked) and got lambasted for it........ There was no reason for that......... and for that I am sorry.

*As Warren stated in another forum, if certain members of this site don't tone down the rhetoric especially with new members, your going to push them away from pigeons altogether........* 

IS THIS THE REAL INTENT BY COMING OFF SO STRONG ON SOMEONE WHO JUST STARTED THE FORUM AND ASKED A SIMPLE QUESTION?  

I KNOW WE ALL HAVE STRONG FEELINGS REGARDING CERTAIN ISSUES, MY SELF INCLUDED, BUT THE WHOLE RESPONSE BY ALL (I believe with the exception of Happy) COULD HAVE BEEN HANDLED BETTER WITHOUT THE LOCK STEP PETA RESPONSE THAT THIS YOUNG FANCIER RECEIVED!

HE ASKED FOR SIMPLE ADVISE AND GOT LAMBASTED FOR IT! THERE IS NO REASON FOR THAT...........

LAWMAN


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

He asked for advice and he did get an answer...several, and a good ones, if it wasn't for the remarks and comments he made, there would NOT have been any controversy. 

If you ask any questions on our forum you will get feedback from members, and especially those qualified to speak on the subject-since you asked, ....you shall receive.

Make sure to add and give all information necessary (CLARIFICATION) to be able to give a complete answer. 

You are new here, you don't even know our regular members, and if you insult or cause any kind of controversy, we will respond to it.

Incidentally as far as re-homing, it is a BIG if????? (just as Renee said) Some birds will... some won't...we advise not to try it, except IF you can go back and pick up the birds from their original home-which you didn't mention until later.


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2007)

Lawman he got his simple answer and then went off on a tangent ,not the other way around ,there was no need for a response like that when it was just some advice from a person who knows and cares about the birds  why stir the pot


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

The "pot" will be closed if it DOES get stirred up anymore.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Welcome to the site, Scotta1*

Scotta1,

I saw your post last night, with no responses to it at that time (I am in Germany), but since I am not experienced with racing or homers or fancies, I felt I shouldn't respond.

One or more nice things to learn from all the controversy that preceded this post:

1) People are emotional

2) They respond accordingly to what they have subjectively perceived

3) It takes a lot of time to apologize and retract statements; explain what you really meant, what the context of the original statement was. Easier to think out what you wish to say ahead of time to a general, varied, unknown audience (no reflection on you or anyone else posting, just a general statement).

4) The really nice thing is that we know that people are emotional, and some really care about pigeons. How much any one individual cares will vary from person to person, 

but,

you know that if you come to this web-site for help in a emergency, you will get help, and you will get advice, and you will get opinions, some contradictory, some useless, some so valuable you will feel forever indebted to that person.

You will feel that you can ask a question, ask for help in an emergency, and even though it may be a national holiday, whatever, when most people can't be bothered, because the big football game is going on, or whatever, you will get a response.

There are English-speaking people from all over the world who frequent or at least occasionally visit this site, at all hours of the day, so even in the middle of the night you may be able to find experienced help. Some of those members, in Australia or India or South Africa, for example, because of time zones, may not have as many people on-line when they are, and may feel a bit lonely at times, but there are some members who seem to be on-line every hour or so. Don't know how they do it. 

An injured pigeon might have more ready resources available to him (in terms of expert opinion and advice) at this web-site, than some humans might on occasion have who are waiting for assistance in an emergency room of a hospital. I'm not denigrating hospitals or medical personnel, but that's just the way it is: in some systems you have to wait in line. If I'm caring for a pigeon, he's not the one who has to stand in the check-out line, waiting for a cashier, when I shop for his food. 

These emotions also enable some of us to take what many others would consider to be stupid or unreasonable actions on behalf of pigeons and pets and other animals. 

Long live diversity!

(As long as y'all agree with me, that is).

Larry


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## abisai (Jan 30, 2007)

Scotta1 . . . lets see if we can take it back to square 1. You are concerned about "re-homing" a pigeon, or how we used to call it when we flew birds off NYC roofs "sticking" them.

Some birds were harder to stick than others. Tipplers, flights, owls, fantails the fancies were no real issue. Some would stick right away - in a day, others would take about a week depending on age, etc. The homing pigeon was another thing altogether.
The homers as a rule would never stick. Most you could hope for was that the cock would hang around while his imprisoned hen would sit on the eggs. And still he wasn't really stuck just waitin' for his hen.

If you have homers who have been "stuck" somewhere else, more than likely that's where they'll go when released. Or die trying. Now that's what a lot of people on this forum have issues with (myself included) - releasing a prisioner who may die trying to return home. 

There are many folks who will accept a breeding pair, especially if the birds are healthy and well taken care of. No need to gamble as to weather he'll stick or not - especially if he's a homer.

I myself have some imprisoned breeders that someday I'll give up for adoption - long as I know they'll be taken care of.

Good Luck

Abisai


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Abisai, thanks for that clarification in a nutshell about the abilities of pigeons. I don't know about anyone else but I've been on a learning curve ever since I've joined this board on all kinds of things pigeon (and people's pigeon passions  ). 

There's lots of advice out there, good and bad and everything in between. In the end, people have to make up their own minds what they are most comfortable with. To me, the best information is backed up with science and math. I want to learn from everyone's viewpoint. What I do is take what is offered, go off and do some independent research and then come out much better educated about why people have come to hold the positions they do. 

To Scotta1, to understand the perspective of someone like Lovebirds, join the 911Pigeon Alert group and just get the daily digests. You can do the same with 911Parrot Alert. These are two boards where people can come and send information about lost and found birds from around the US and Canada as well as from other countries. You'll find alerts crossposted from craigslists, shelters, other bulletin boards as well as alerts fed directly into the groups. I think it helps people see the "why" behind some of the passionate feelings people have. I certainly have a better feeling.


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

I may be straying a bit off the original question, but I'm curious after reading this thread to inquire what age a homer has to be for it to be less likely to settle? I acquired 4 young homers this spring, all around 5-6 weeks old at the time. Are those birds likely to 'stick' as Abisai puts it? Or are you only likely to have good luck with those you raise from eggs?

I also have a young (2006) male Roller and a female Mookie (also '06). Any thoughts as to how - um - sticky those birds are likely to be? We're real noobs here...always brimming with questions.


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## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

Trees Gray said:


> The "pot" will be closed if it DOES get stirred up anymore.




The above comment is exactly what I mean when I stated "lock step". I pointed out an opposite view and I could take the above comment many different ways. 

If it is meant that my opposing view is not appreciated by some, well so be it! I'm used to people not appreciating what I stand for. Trust me I get comments from people on a daily basis that don't like me simply because I was a member of the US Army and more currenty, because I am a Police Officer. It does not make me hide my head and back off in the slightest.

I could take the comments to mean that any further discussion opposite to anothers point of view will result in this particular line of the forum being locked with no further posts being allowed.

Or I could take it to mean if I post my opposing opinion I'll be shut down and not allowed to make any further posts. 

Or it could mean many other things entirely, couldnt it?

Well time will tell wont it!

Simple point is, a young fancier asked a simple question and got testy when he felt attacked by senior members of this web site. 

We should all feel ashamed because of this.............. Time will tell if that young fancier ever asks an open forum question again........... 

Fact is I probibly agree with Treesa on more things than we disagree on and I do appreciate those who do what she does in rehabing birds. Then doing everything they can to get those birds back to their rightful owners, regardless of who they are and whether of not they race their pigeons. 

Now with that said I encourage everyone on this forum to go to peta.org and read for themselves what peta stands for and the extents they will go too, to shut down anyone with an opposing point of view. 

Lawman


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## abisai (Jan 30, 2007)

Many folks have posted many opposing views on this forum And everyone generally is cool with it. Was it Franlyn who said " I may not agree with what you say . . .but I'll fight to the death to defend your right to say it" . . .or something to that effect. So lets agree to disagree (it's not all that difficult) And we can put an end to indirect/or not -so-direct remarks. Ok so your a cop - we heard that already. And that PITA thing - Man drop it already . . .or as you would say - put it down and back away slowly.

Reminds me of the two winos onna roof that are gonna jump. One says 'you go', the other "no you go first'. So nothing's accomplished.


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## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

Hello abisai, 

I almost thought you got the point I was trying to make until you started in on the bad cliche's.

Lawman


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Lawman,

I would never close this thread because of opposing views , that is not the issue. The problem, as I see it, is when someone takes offense to a viewpoint other then theirs, and tries to insult or degrade a member for having a different view. That is what happened here.

I appreciate you taking the time and effort to post your beliefs. I can also appreciate the fact that you are a policeman, and you were in the US Army, my husband also was in the military. I have the highest respect for our policemen and all that work in the emergency field, it is a very challenging work, with little reward. My husband works & volunteers in the emergency field and my son is studying in the field.

You have the right to your opinion as does everyone here, and you can freely express it, but when insults are hurled around, I have to respond, but I don't close or lock up a thread because of the opposing view.


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## abisai (Jan 30, 2007)

OK I'm gonna jump . . . HELLOOOOOOOooooooooooooo My new found friend.

AC

Oh yeah, the General Discussion forum is posting some pigeon jokes.

Join in. I'll laugh only if they're funny. He, He, He


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

*Forum Rules Of Conduct ..*

Just a friendly reminder to all .. please review our Forum Rules Of Conduct: http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=7006

Terry


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

lawman said:


> The above comment is exactly what I mean when I stated "lock step". I pointed out an opposite view and I could take the above comment many different ways.
> 
> If it is meant that my opposing view is not appreciated by some, well so be it! I'm used to people not appreciating what I stand for. Trust me I get comments from people on a daily basis that don't like me simply because I was a member of the US Army and more currenty, because I am a Police Officer. It does not make me hide my head and back off in the slightest.
> 
> ...


http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=166272&postcount=4

OPPOSING POINT OF VIEW??


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## Guest (Jun 26, 2007)

I just have to state as to the fact that I for one dont know how this line of posting went bad when Renee stated that


> Scott, I realize you are new at this. And I'm not trying to start a controversy here, but..............the attitude that "if I loose a few, it won't be so bad" is not the attitude to take.


 now to me thats not in anyway coming down on him in any way so dont know how it was taken in such a way as other then meaning she cares about what happens to the birds that dont rehome to his place of residence mmm didnt sound any where near hostile to me as some are trying to make it sound ..she even went out of her way to say that it was only her opinion and most of us do kow its a crap shoot when it comes to rehoming pigeons in general, so its just advice take it or leave at that ,it still good advice from the ones that know from experiance , even Lawman had this to say at one time


> Your right, if you plan on racing your birds you will have to get to a point when you are not so attached to them. Personnaly I dont name them or get attached until they have been removed from the race team and have been put into the breeding loft. Dont get me wrong its hard not to see one or two each season that just have that something extra and not at least watch them extra close.
> 
> Lawman


 but then that was just on the racing aspect of losing birds in racing an training birds not rehoming  lol we all have our advice but you dont have to listen to any of it ,its always in your hands how you handle your birds in the end ..so I do hope it all works out well for you and your birds , they are truely amazing and wonderful creatures


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## WhiteWingsCa (Mar 1, 2002)

TheSnipes said:


> I may be straying a bit off the original question, but I'm curious after reading this thread to inquire what age a homer has to be for it to be less likely to settle? *I acquired 4 young homers this spring, all around 5-6 weeks old at the time. * Are those birds likely to 'stick' as Abisai puts it? Or are you only likely to have good luck with those you raise from eggs?
> 
> I also have a young (2006) male Roller and a female Mookie (also '06). Any thoughts as to how - um - sticky those birds are likely to be? We're real noobs here...always brimming with questions.


I hope you let these youngsters out to fly within a week of getting them? 

Generally, any youngster 4-6 weeks of age, trained to a new loft from the get go, will "stick". LOL Well, stick as well as any that were raised there as well. Unfortunately, nothing is 100% in pigeons that are let outside.

After 6 weeks of age, up to 8 weeks, it CAN be done, but it's a bit trickier than just trap training and releasing younger birds.

Over 8 weeks of age --- well..... iffy, at best. Again, CAN be done, but really tricky, with well bred homers. Fly offs are a big problem at that point -- they are wing strong, and often fly away too far the first time out, before learning the neighbourhood, the way a "just learning to fly" baby would.

To the original poster of this thread..... "Prisoners" are called prisoners for a reason. Mostly because if released, even with mates/nests/eggs or babies, they will return to their original loft - or try to. (this is for homers, btw. I'm not knowledgeable in other pigeon types).

We've tried "breaking" prisoner birds of various ages over the years. The one that sticks most in my mind is Mike, one of our original 6 birds. Got him as a 9-10 month old. Used him for breeding. When he was 3-4 years old, we decided to try and 'break' him and a few of our other birds. Managed to get one 'broken'. Lost one. A couple hung around, and hubby was able to catch after dark. And Mike? -- well, he promptly booked it for his original home -- even though he had babies in a nest. Fortunately, his old loft had been converted to a storage shed instead of being removed -- and his original owner came home to find him sitting at the door of it, looking at it as if to say "hey! Let me in!".

Mike is still in our loft -- in the prisoner pen. 

Basic rule of thumb that we abide by -- If you want a older bird, and care for the bird, don't let it out, unless you're willing to risk having it fly to it's first home. And when the first home no longer exists -- chances are you're letting it out to be eaten by a hawk, owl or cat.


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## pooroleal (Jun 25, 2007)

*prisoners*

SCOOT1
RELOCATING INDIVIDUAL BIRDS IS BETTER THAN MATED PRAIRS . IF THEY HAVE THEIR OWN NESTS AND PLENTY OF SPACE AND ARE REMATED THEY 
USUALLY WILL STAY.IF THEY ARE ON EGGS IT IS EVEN BETTER . 
YOU HAVE THE CHOICE OF [2[ EVILS , KEEPING A BIRD THAT IS WALKING
THE WIRE EVER DAY ,WANTING TO FLY. LETTING A BIRD LOOSE THAT MIGHT
FLY AWAY . THEY MAY CHECK OUT THE LOFT 12 MILES AWAY AND COME
BACK. LOTS OF LUCK
pooroleal


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## SCOTTA1 (Sep 13, 2006)

HELLO,

All I can say is wheeewwwww and thanks to those that were Direct with their answers and help. I will say that it seems that most enjoy the drama than stay on the subject here. I will post somewhere on this forum again somewhere although a little gun shy that if I post a picture of my loft or mention a type of feed or whatever , someones gonna give grief somehow (drama or controversy I call it).

Lawman, since you mentioned it just wanted to say I too am in Law Enforcement.

anyway Can everyone else please just give their .02 on the subject
(even though I believe Ive got enough Info already) and stop all the Gossip or just close the thread?

Thanks SCOTT


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## 1pigeon (Apr 5, 2006)

For me if i think my birds are prisoner i just let them flyyyyy..


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## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

Glad to see you back Scott. 

Just to add my two cents, I would personnely get at least two rounds of youngsters off of the birds you already have. Then wait for them to go down on a third set. Then and only then if you want to try and resettle them would I allow them out. By this time you should have youngsters already lofting around your house. This may help along with being with a mate and on a nest at the same time should help the older birds stay put instead of take off. Just be sure not to allow the hen and the cock outside the loft at the same time for a while. They may abandon the nest and take off together. 

Once you decide to allow them out there are several techniques that can be used/tried to reduce the number of birds you might lose. Each come with there own draw backs and vertually none work 100%. 

FYI, I find the birds are a great way to reduce stress after a long hard day at work. The rest of the drama I could personnely do without but hey it is what it is.

Lawman


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

SCOTTA1 said:


> anyway Can everyone else please just give their .02 on the subject
> *or just close the thread?*



Hi Scott,

If you would like that, I will be most happy to oblige.


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## abisai (Jan 30, 2007)

I agree, Trees. A lot of good and differing advice was offered. I think we all learned a little something and there's nothing more to be said.

Abisai


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## jimboy61 (Jun 15, 2007)

lawman said:


> The above comment is exactly what I mean when I stated "lock step". I pointed out an opposite view and I could take the above comment many different ways.
> 
> If it is meant that my opposing view is not appreciated by some, well so be it! I'm used to people not appreciating what I stand for. Trust me I get comments from people on a daily basis that don't like me simply because I was a member of the US Army and more currenty, because I am a Police Officer. It does not make me hide my head and back off in the slightest.
> 
> ...



No, he asked a question , got a site appropriate answer ( if he had actually taken the time to read the forum guidelines), and didn't like what he heard, responded with what the majority here perceived correctly as a smart alec remark, and decided to retort. Thats life, you ask questions and get answers you may not like, that doesnt make it a wrong answer.


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## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

My young friend Perhaps you should take some of your own advise. 

As for the majority taking one view over the other....... I suspect that just as in life, most just sit back and watch what occures and never speak up.

So unless you want to set up a poll in such a way that each member of this site can only vote once........... there is no way to prove or disprove what the majority of this site realy think on any given subject is there. 

You are then left with the thoughts of the few who are not afraid to speak out and say what they think on any given subject. We are then each left to reach our own conclusions on the topic(s). That my freind is the whole point in having a discussion board like pigeon-talk, so that differing views can be presented.

Lawman


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*Different views were presented, appropriate answers were given, but then it became quite clear that remarks made in violation of forum rules, so that is why I am closing this thread, not because of differing views.

Thank you, if anyone has a problem with it PM me.*


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