# First breeding pairs



## Subway (Mar 27, 2016)

I just got my first kit of birds, 2 red mookies, 2 homers a red and blue bar, and 6 rollers 2 grizzles 2 red checks and 2 blue bars. I had 2 eggs the second day but the hen was not setting them and after some time I pulled them. I knew for sure the the mookies were a pair and was pretty sure the red checks were too but today I got to see them feeding each other and picking nest boxes. We Def have 2 pairs. I hope the grizzles pair up I would love to see the birds they will make. The cock is a yellow and the hen has black and grey speckles. The seem to stay together but nothing definitive yet. I was watching the blue bars and am not sure if they are opposite sex. I think one is a cock though. I listened to it coo or rather a grumbley growl. And it looked like he was puffing up and dancing a little but it was very brief and I could be wrong. Either way it was great to sit and watch my birds interact. I especially love watching the paired birds take care of each other. 
The darkest blue bar is the young Homer he will be paired with the scalped one.


I was told these are mookee but I don't know if they are or just a fun key cross breed.


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## Whytpigeon (Sep 14, 2015)

That is allot of different breeds together. What is your goal in letting more hatch? mixed breeds are not as easy to re-home if one would need too. People want purebred pigeons mostly. So thinking on the future and the birds ( which live as long as a dog or cat). 

If you wanted to let a same breed pair breed you would separate the pair from the rest so you know for sure no cross breeding went on. you should band the babies to be responsible for them. And also enough room for them, as they will be adults and need a mate of their own at some point in that same year. 

Having a mixed loft is not a bad thing it just does not serve a purpose for breeding. Use fake eggs with any pairs you get. Unless you get a pair of the same, then if you think it wise let them hatch babies. No more than three clutches a year which helps not wear them down and gives them a break from feeding babies. Use fake eggs the rest of the time. Fake eggs are essential to keeping pigeons for fun, for their health and hatch control.


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## Subway (Mar 27, 2016)

Homers are kept separate and for now the mookies already have mates so I figure until I finish the loft they should be ok. I plan to keep about 20 birds mostly rollers. Then separate the females or use a nest egg to prevent laying new ones


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I think you are on the wrong site for your needs. This is a pigeons advocacy site.


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## Subway (Mar 27, 2016)

Well..... let's just focus on how enjoyable it is to raise these birds and how they interact together. Also how to properly care for them. I'm not interested in being a pigeon mill. It's just a fun hobby


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Subway said:


> The homers I keep separate on one side by themselves. But the mookies and rollers are still together till I finish my other loft. I was told as long as they are paid they should be okay for a bit until I'm done with the other aditions. As far as the young...... I would like to sustain my population but not exceed 20 birds. I'll have a few young to raise but most will be used for falconry and sporting.... probably not what most want to here but as Ole Jose Wales once said "vultures gotta eat same as the worms."
> There's lots of falconry here and a lot of bird doggers.



Be aware before you proceed any further. As informed by Jay3, we advocate pigeons and all the animals and don't tolerate any discussion of advocacy of killing /culling/hunting them. 
Do go through the following link to know about forum rules to abide by:

www.pigeons.biz/forums/f124/forum-rules-of-conduct-67555.html

Also, it is impossible to be a pigeon mill for anyone, that's why we keep replacing their eggs with fake ones so to control their population and to not put them through brutal killing which we can feel only when we face. We should empathize the situation to understand. Innocent speechless creatures shouldn't be killed for fun. That's sad how people have that hard heart to do it.


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## Subway (Mar 27, 2016)

Thank you sir. Duly noted. Again I'm here to enjoy the birds and for the resources and knowledge of the collective group, respectfully I will refrain from any discussion other than general inquiries to health and breeding and the occasional post about how nice it is to have these birds. I'm actually quite fond of them. Seems I spend more time sitting out side the loft watching them then I do in my recliner in the den.


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## Whytpigeon (Sep 14, 2015)

Subway said:


> Thank you sir. Duly noted. Again I'm here to enjoy the birds and for the resources and knowledge of the collective group, respectfully I will refrain from any discussion other than general inquiries to health and breeding and the occasional post about how nice it is to have these birds. I'm actually quite fond of them. Seems I spend more time sitting out side the loft watching them then I do in my recliner in the den.


You're good subway. I am able to let my homers fly around my place and yes birds of prey are a fact of nature. There are all types of opinions and personalities around here and most can not get beyond emotional thinking. So being nice is a great way to go. Just don't think you are a bad person because someone else has a different outlook. The rules are pretty easy to figure out..lol..

The birds are really nice looking. I think you would really like to fly homers, they give me so much peace seeing them fly around my acreage.


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## Subway (Mar 27, 2016)

The two younger homers started in my father in laws loft but never flew. He said they typically don't home in 100% until they fly. How long should I keep them in my loft before I try to fly them?


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## Whytpigeon (Sep 14, 2015)

Subway said:


> The two younger homers started in my father in laws loft but never flew. He said they typically don't home in 100% until they fly. How long should I keep them in my loft before I try to fly them?


Even homers that have not flown may go back to where they were raised, so it's hard to tell. A good bred homer even if he had a glimpse outside can fly home from a release away from it. I heard of a young bird that was bought at a young age , let out of the loft for the first time ,it took off and got back home and I think it was a good distance. So you never know. What I would do is if you have the room, take the pair and put them alone in an area to breed them and fly the young. But you need to have a trap door or bird door so to speak for just the birds to use and get back in the loft, training teaches them how to use it before they are let out. Training using food as the motivator. But that is detailed subject.


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## donut314 (Mar 17, 2016)

I don't think those are mookee. Mookee curl their neck back and raise their chest forward like a fantail. They also have a tendency to shake their head.


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## Subway (Mar 27, 2016)

donut314 said:


> I don't think those are mookee. Mookee curl their neck back and raise their chest forward like a fantail. They also have a tendency to shake their head.


After looking them up online I decided to post their picture in the genetics section of the Forum and a Gentleman mentioned that they might just be crested rollers. I have very limited knowledge on these birds and was told that they are mookees but I am wondering if the gentleman that gave the birds to my father inlaw somewhere way down the line had crested rollers that crossed with his rollers and it's just now showing up.


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## pigeonraiser (Mar 23, 2001)

They are nice looking birds whatever breed they are.Have fun with them and good luck.


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## WillisAz (Feb 2, 2016)

*Hello*

I was looking at your picture of your birds. I would change there diet as soon as you can and not feed any cracked corn.


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## Subway (Mar 27, 2016)

WillisAz said:


> I was looking at your picture of your birds. I would change there diet as soon as you can and not feed any cracked corn.


What should they be eating and why? Judging by the picture how does one determine what type of food they need to eat what should I be looking for


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## Whytpigeon (Sep 14, 2015)

Subway said:


> What should they be eating and why? Judging by the picture how does one determine what type of food they need to eat what should I be looking for


I think you need to get caught up , you have the birds now so you are staring at a disadvantage. Not too smart, the birds usually lose out in that situation.

You need to go get a book on pigeon keeping and care. 
THEY ARE NOT CHICKENS. THEY HAVE THEIR OWN FOOD
USE FAKE EGGS, the last thing you need are baby pigeons now.

Pigeons eat pigeon feed from the feed store. It is grains seeds and legumes. Or use a wild bird seed geared to wild doves and add unpopped plain popcorn, dried peas, yellow or green. Safflower seeds if the seed mix does not have many. That is sufficient . I'm not going to complicate things and name all the things you can add as all mentioned is enough for good feed mix.

CALCIUM, that is given in form of crushed oystershell, from the feed store. Offered in a croc all the time. Elevating it can keep the feces out of it. 
The hens need their calcium. They also need to sit the fake eggs . If their real eggs are taken (which they should be) they may lay too soon and recurrent and lose calcium from their bones which causes health problems.


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## WillisAz (Feb 2, 2016)

Here is a picture of a pigeon feed I use when I run out of my main mix which is $22 for 50lbs it is specifically made for pigeons. And you will also need to get a container for grit they need access to grit all the time. The milk jug you're using for feed will work fine if you just don't over fill it and cut the hole smaller so it doesn't spill out. Cause the feed that spills out will become contaminated with feces or fall on the ground and mold. If they eat this they will become sick. Other than that enjoy your new birds and Welcome to the sport.


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## WillisAz (Feb 2, 2016)

*Feed*

Here is the picture of feed.


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## Subway (Mar 27, 2016)

I'll have to look around and see what I can find then. Grit is for the craw and gizzard correct?


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## WillisAz (Feb 2, 2016)

*Re:Grit*

Yeah the pigeons swallow the grit and it helps the gizzard grind up the feed.


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## Whytpigeon (Sep 14, 2015)

Subway said:


> I'll have to look around and see what I can find then. Grit is for the craw and gizzard correct?


There is allot of information that you need, it coming in drip by drip as you ask takes too long. 

Get a book on pigeon husbandry . Google the care of pigeons. 

Pigeons need insoluble stones in their gizzard to grind their seeds, because they eat them whole, without shucking them. The crop is the bag on their upper chest where the seeds go after they swallow them. It's a soaking tank so to speak. Back to the gizzard old stones that get small and wear round are passed in the droppings.

The pigeons also need minerals from soluble stones and shells, examples red pigeon grit ,mineral pick stones and crushed oystershell . Pick stones can be bought online at pigeon supply. Google pigeon supply. (You will learn allot just browsing Foys pigeon supply.)

Calcium would be in shells and offerd as I already said. There are liquid supplements for the water. I like the offering oystershell as they get what they need and only what they need. I have only used a liquid supplement if a hen was having problems because of another unrelated issue and she was not consuming enough oystershell.

There is more information on calcium and vitamin D3. Basically sunlight helps them make vitamin D3, in turn vitamin D3 is important for the proper absorption and utilization of calcium.

you see there is allot to learn. Please get a good book. Even info about pet parrots and avian medicine is a help. Pigeons are unique though.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Whytpigeon said:


> You're good subway. I am able to let my homers fly around my place and yes birds of prey are a fact of nature. There are all types of opinions and personalities around here and most can not get beyond emotional thinking. So being nice is a great way to go. Just don't think you are a bad person because someone else has a different outlook. The rules are pretty easy to figure out..lol..
> 
> The birds are really nice looking. I think you would really like to fly homers, they give me so much peace seeing them fly around my acreage.


Nobody called anyone bad here. It is the killing hobby which could be called bad( don't take my choice/opinion but according to this site where you are, it doesn't support killing). Where ever you be, you have to follow certain rules and this is what my post was about. 

Good when you try to help people but bad when you unnecessary comment on other's posts when even nobody was talking to you. This is what we frequently notice in your posts, which is not appreciated anyway.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Subway said:


> Thank you sir. Duly noted. Again I'm here to enjoy the birds and for the resources and knowledge of the collective group, respectfully I will refrain from any discussion other than general inquiries to health and breeding and the occasional post about how nice it is to have these birds. I'm actually quite fond of them. Seems I spend more time sitting out side the loft watching them then I do in my recliner in the den.


Thanks to understand. Appreciate it. Enjoy the forum.


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

Subway said:


> I'm actually quite fond of them. Seems I spend more time sitting out side the loft watching them then I do in my recliner in the den.


you're "fond of them" but yet you want to to feed them to the falcons?


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## roses (Aug 25, 2015)

Yikes.  After reading the real intention for the pigeons, it's a little alarming to see the scalped pigeon.

Is it even a respectable practice in falconry to have it prey on domestic animals? I thought the WHOLE POINT of falconry was to have your falcon chase and hunt wild animals. The fancy-mix looking pigeons don't even stand a chance. Not to mention how many pigeons survive hawk strikes then suffer....


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## Subway (Mar 27, 2016)

roses said:


> Yikes.  After reading the real intention for the pigeons, it's a little alarming to see the scalped pigeon.
> 
> Is it even a respectable practice in falconry to have it prey on domestic animals? I thought the WHOLE POINT of falconry was to have your falcon chase and hunt wild animals. The fancy-mix looking pigeons don't even stand a chance. Not to mention how many pigeons survive hawk strikes then suffer....


Firstly I will remind you that I have already said that will only post questions and positive comments. So let me be very respectfully clear.... I'm not here to argue values or principles. I ask that you do not troll for an agreement.
Secondly. With falconry there are times that you do not fly your bird.in fact with most female hawks they tend to set the nest while the male hunts and feeds her. Female typically have a shorter flying season. And yes hunting is very important but some times can be less productive depending on training of both the bird and falconer. It is much more fruitful to hunt with both dogs and hawk then a bird alone but that needs extra training. Feeding with non hunted food suplements their diet..... it's also necessary to use Meer to train your bird to come to you instead of flying away. 
So again slowdown and relax. Please remember you gain most from your own business rather then managing others.


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

well, you're not really "hunting" if you are breeding the pigeons to feed the falcons. What you are doing is a horrible thing to do to these poor birds (pigeons), they are going to be so tame that they won't stand a chance. Not fair to them.


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## Subway (Mar 27, 2016)

Dear moderator please go ahead and close this one down


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

I don't know what you expected when posting about falconry in a pigeon lover forum. Sorry Kiddy and other moderators, it just makes me mad that here we are trying to help and save injured pigeons while others breed them to feed to other animals.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Yes, I am going to close this thread now and so we have stated the rules about this site as there are many pigeon lovers who may get very hurt who always look forward to save and rescue birds.


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