# Broken beak



## Lorna (Aug 5, 2006)

hello, me again!
found another pigeon with a broken beak, the bottom beak hangs to the side and it can't close it. it is skinny and can't pick up seeds, but will swallow them when i put them at the back of the throat and i think it can drink. is there anything i should be hand feeding it to build it up, something i can buy or make?
cheers
L.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Hi Lorna,

Is it definitely broken, or just crossed over (see the pic of "Piglet" at bottom of page)?

Is it a young one, or adult, similar to Piglet?

Have you checked in his mouth - see if there's any sign of the typical yellow of canker or pox, which could and frequently does, distort or destroy beaks.

Will he pick up food if you put it into a deep pot he can really get his face into?

John


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## Lorna (Aug 5, 2006)

its an adult pigeon, ill try and take a picture of it. jaw looks crossed over but hangs down, its got a deep bowl of seed and it wants to eat but can't close it beak to pick up the seed as far as i can tell. i couldn't see any canker, but it had a lot of mud in its mouth that i think is all cleared up now.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Lorna,

For the time being can you hand feed it, gently open its mouth and pop little bits of soaked dog biscuits in.

I once found one with the beak cracked and hanging down, sounds as if this might be the case this time and it is likely to lose the lower beak unless it can be fixed but I am uncertain about the technicalities of that.

Pigeons can survive with part of the lower beak missing, but it would need a permanent home. John will be travelling up here tomorrow evening, he can pick it up on the way but it will be mid afternoon Or we can go down on Saturday morning to collect it.

Let us know what you would like to do.

Cynthia


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Thank you for helping this bird.

I'm so sorry to hear about the injury.

Is the break in the mandable itself , or is the whole bottom mandable hanging down?

Please follow the instructions on this thread first, warm the bird up and then administer fluids:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=8822


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## Lorna (Aug 5, 2006)

fri would probably be best, im free between 12 and 3, but if your here later that will be ok, as i live same place where i work. then u can give me a ring and let me know when u arrived. ill email u my mob and address.


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## Lorna (Aug 5, 2006)

thanks for the help, i gotta go, early start. i'll check forum/email at breakfast, about 930. u can leave a message on mob or landline anytime, thanks again
L.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Hi Lorna,

I 'hope' to leave Worthing about 1215, which (depending on Dartford Tunnel, M25, M11 traffic) should mean I am around Newmarket area by 4 PM, or a little earlier.

Cynthia has fwded phone # etc., so I'll call you when I get there. 

I have a cat carrier I use for pigeon transport, and it should only be a further hour to Norwich.

John


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

This is probably the most beautiful feral that I have seen! Very light and thin though and his lower beak is broken on one side at the bottom and skews to one side.

I warmed him up (he loved the thermal bulb and got as close to it as he could) and rehydrated before messing him around.

There was a lot of brown gunge inside the beak which I have been removing with a Q tip, and it was also on the side of the beak. I thought it was blood but it isn't. When I removed a bit outside the beak it left a bare spot, like a scab would leave.

It also looked as if half its tongue had gone, but I didn't look too closely as I don't want to put pressure on the beak unnecessarily to open the mouth.

I am letting him rest for a while, will try to get photos later. 

Cynthia


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Bless you, Cynthia.
He is in the best hands.
Let us know how it goes, and best of luck with him.

Reti


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## kittypaws (Sep 18, 2005)

Cynthia

You and John are so wonderful  - This little pidgie sounds like they really need some TLC.

I hope that he can be saved and enjoy his life.

I think you are both off to collect another one tomorrow from Sarah - do you ever get anytime to yourself!!???  Don't answer that I think knowthe answer.....lol

Tania xx

PS - Thank you Lorna for looking out for our feathered friends - your second I believe in a week!!


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

This is the handsome fellah himself. I have never seen this colouring before! Because of the colouring of his beak it would have been difficult to spot a problem, Lorna must love animals a lot and also be very observant.

He is till in a cat carrier while I try to fatten him up, but he is anxious for a bit more freedom so tomorrow I will transfer him to a chipmunk cage.

The beak is repairing, but I can't get it into the perfect position as there had already been new growth that distorted it...not that I am certain I could have straightened it if it had been a fresh break!

I still haven't worked out what the gunge in his mouth was, but Nami Chan (one of our aviary pigeons that had PMV) was found when he was all skin and bone and stabbing his beak deep into a compost heap in the hopes of coming up with something edible. I think this pigeon was doing something similar.

Cynthia


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*What beautiful coloring!*



cyro51 said:


> I still haven't worked out what the gunge in his mouth was, but Nami Chan (one of our aviary pigeons that had PMV) was found when he was all skin and bone and stabbing his beak deep into a compost heap in the hopes of coming up with something edible. I think this pigeon was doing something similar


That is what I figured from the beginning, that he may have tried to scoop something into the beak, poor baby, amazing that the bottom mandable didn't come off completely. I'm sure he is very eager to eat.

I'm glad the beak is repositioning, hopefully enough to where he can grab some bites.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Cynthia said he looked like a chocolate/toffee ice cream, so "Toffee" he is.

We hope that he will, with the stuff removed from inside the beak, learn to eat OK as does our Piglet, whose beak is very badly distorted.

As Cynthia said, he appreciated the heat lamp. I caught him standing on one foot in a typical relaxed "I'm OK" position.

John


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Sometimes I just get too choked up about some rescues and this is one of the times. The teamwork involved and the effort everyone made to save this truly beautiful bird is just awesome. 

I know Toffee will do well with the care he gets from Cynthia and John.

Lorna, take a bow. You deserve it.


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

What a lucky bird to have found his way to you. I've never seen that coloring on any pigeon before, feral or pet. He's beautiful!


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I wonder if someone has been working on genetics trying to create a new morph, and has released one that didn't quite make the standard?

Cynthia


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Cynthia, John, Lorna and all...

Beautiful pigeon Toffee is, and such nice clean, pink legs! I wish him/her well in the recovery process and hope that this bird will learn to eat again on it's own.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

WoW! What a beautiful bird! I sure hope Toffee recovers well! Great name!

His coloring reminded me of a young predator's feathers (Hwak? Kestrel? something!). Anyway, he's unique.

Will look forward to many positive updates! 

Wonderful coordination from all !!


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Another show of great team work.  

He *is * a stunning bird & is definitely in good hands.  
Sending positive thoughts your way Cynthia, that his recovery goes well. 
When time permits, let us know how things are coming along. 

Cindy


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

*Not the best news*

I took Toffee to the vet today and the beak is not mending it is forming scar tissue on either side of the break. He also thinks that there is nerve damage and is not certain that the tongue is working.

He said the options were euthanasia, an opration to try wiring the jaw together (wth nylon) or to gavage feed for the rest of his life.

The second option carries a high risk because of the anaesthetic but he persuaded me to go for that one. He is a good and compassionate vet, so I agreed. Toffee will need all your positive thoughts.

I asked him what I could have done to make the chances of repair better and he said that I should have brought him in immediately, but then qualified this by saying he would have deferred surgery for a week anyway to let Toffee build up his strength as his emaciation would have made surgery even more risky. AS I have not had Toffee for a week it appears we would have gone down this path anyway.

Cynthia


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I certainly do hope all goes well with the surgery.

Sending positive thoughts and prayers for Toffee. I have a good supply of them!


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## kittypaws (Sep 18, 2005)

Hi Cynthia,

Sorry to hear about Toffee's 3 options - 1 is well the last resort and 3 would be I think very traumatic for Toffee and not in the interests of Toffee or yourself. 

It will be scary for you when Toffee has the operation but your vet sounds wonderful so will give it his best shot. I really hope it works out. When is the operation scheduled for so we can all send positive thoughts that day? 

Tania xx


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Best of luck with Toffee's upcoming surgery. I know it's always worrisome, but I also know the outcomes are usually successful when the vet knows what he or she is doing.

Terry


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## karla (Jul 8, 2006)

My prayers to Toffee .
Wishing Toffee a speedy recovery! 
Karla


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## Lorna (Aug 5, 2006)

hello,
thanks again cynthia and john for sorting out pigeon. hope the operation works and he recovers
L.
xx


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

I, too, am adding the BEST WARM HEALING THOUGHTS I can! Mr. Squeaks joins me too!

We all wish the very best for Toffee. I'm so glad you have a knowledgeable and compassionate Vet. That sure doesn't always happen as we all know!

Please let us know how the surgery goes. Birds are fast healers so tell Toffee to do his/her best!! We're all counting on a positive outcome!


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Thanks everyone, Toffee has a lot of friends!

The operation is tomorrow morning.

The problem is that they don't use whatever anaesthetic is ideal for birds because it would cost £300 per operation for an ordinary vet (rather than an avian specialist) to supply. I wondered whether I should have backed out and taken the pigeon to a London avian vet, but then remembered that the ones that can afford the expensive anaesthtics won't treat feral pigeons because they could be putting their incredibly expensive exotic patients at risk.

So it was Catch 22. But my vet has a lot of experience of pigeons and there is a 79 in 80 success rate.

Cynthia


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

My thoughts and prayers are with Toffee and you, Cynthia.
Best of luck.
A few months ago my vet did a surgery like this on a quaker that had his lover beak torn off by another bird. It worked great. So, I am hopeful surgeries like this have a great success rate.
Best of luck.

Reti


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Cynthia, my thoughts and prayers are with Toffee.


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## Flying_Pidgy (Apr 26, 2006)

Good luck with the repairing. I would like to say WOW! what an amazing coloring!!! Does anyone have any idea how they got it to be thay color?


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

*All is Well*

Thank you, all of you, for your positive thoughts and energy and thank you Rob-the-Vet for your skill and compassion!

Toffee came through the operation well, now we have to see if the "wiring" (it is nylon) holds long enough for the beak to repair.

There was a tear inside the beak that affects the function of the tongue, but we will have to d=see how that affects her ability to swallow. I will just continue to gavage if she can't eat.


Cynthia


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

That's great news, Cynthia! Here's hoping for a completely successful beak healing!

Terry


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I'm glad the surgery went well!  

I will keep up the positive thoughts and prayers for the healing of beak and tongue. May the surgery be successful in enabling Toffee to pick up and swallow seeds.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thank you for the great news.
Hope he recovers completely very soon.
You're an angel for all you do for our dear birds.

Reti


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## tandarat (Aug 20, 2006)

Glad he made it through surgery. I have a maroon-bellied conure who lost half of his lower mandible after being bitten by an african grey. Our vet, who is a well-known avian vet, said that even if he lost his whole beak (which was a possibility at the time), he could live a full and happy life with just a little extra care. He is able to eat softer seeds and cooked food, and still loves his "baby food"....real soupy hand-feeding formula, sometimes mixed with real baby food for variety. If your guy could drink, he should be able to eat liquid foods such as hand feeding formula, lorikeet formula/nectar, and pureed fruits and veggies or baby food. I also have heard of prosthetics being made to help birds with hopelessly damaged mandibles....

Michelle


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Thanks Michelle, that is very encouraging!

There is an avian veterinary surgery that was considering a prosthetic beak for a feral pigeon that had lost half its lower beak because of pox and canker. Sadly the pigeon died of other causes and shortly after the vet decided that because his regular patients were exotic and expensive birds he could not afford to put lose his wealthy customers by providing surgical care for any wild birds.

Fortunately he is also a compassionate man and continues to provide consulting room care.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

GREAT NEWS....so far!

Will continue to send WARM HEALING THOUGHTS to Toffee! We are all behind him... 

Will look forward to positive updates!


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

*Update*

As it is New Year I thought that some updates would be appropriate.

Back in August the vet (who avoids euthanasing while there is quality of life) said that the options for Toffee were :euthanasia, an operation to try wiring the jaw together (with nylon) or to gavage feed for the rest of his life.

Well the jaw wiring wasn't a complete sucess, there were two stiches and at least one of them came loose so he had difficulty picking seed up. Toffeee absolutely hated being gavaged and there was damage to the inside of his beak that made it difficult for him to swallow seed . It was so sad to watch him, working away at picking up a pea or a piece of maize only to have it drop out when he tried to swallow it. 

But Toffee is a pigeon!  They are survivors and know how to adapt, so he practised and practised (while I kept a close eye on the quantity and quality of his poops) and is now a healthy, strong pigeon who seems to have no trouble eating and is looking for a wife. He is courting the recently widowed Baby so the next hurdle is for him to get though the courting rituals that involve the beak.

I will try to take a nice photo for Lorna, in case she visits the PT.

Cynthia


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

What a great update on Toffee, Cynthia! As you well know, we should never count our beloved pigeons out. They truly are amazing birds and can overcome some of the most difficult obstacles.

Terry


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## roy-me-boy (Dec 28, 2006)

Thats wonderful news Cynthia,may i send you a big pat on the back from me & my family for helping Toffee.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Cynthia,

Great update about Toffee.

Thank you for helping him achieve his best, and giving him all the love and time he needed to make the adjustment.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Wonderful news! Hurray for Toffee!*

I have been out of the loop lately on many posts and threads due to a long dragged-out infection or some such thing, so it is so pleasant to read about a problem, the solution, and the wedding bells all at once. Hurray for *Toffee*! What a beautiful bird.

As far as him being a possible breeding experiment reject or release, I suppose there might be some "evidence" which would point to the breeder, in the form of similarly-colored pigeons. Not that I am necessarily accusing or implying any inappropriate action on anyone's part without knowing all the facts first, and alos because I know little about breeding and raising fancy pigeons. 

I always find it fascinating to read about pigeons with beak problems, after having watchd over and fed *Splitbeak* in 2005.

My pigeon *Wieteke* (and often his feral mate *Mamieke*) was visiting for meals a couple of times a day, and when he showed signs of illness I hauled him in for observation and treatment. He now would like to reestablish territorial nesting rights inside, so he is being encouraged to check out other possibilities. A younger male (one of Wieteke and Mamieke's offspring?) wants to claim the local turf for his own. 

*Cynthia*, after walking to the hospital from the bus and streetcar connections (with my wife toting the bag) for an overnight stay to evaluate supplemental oxygen, and feeling pretty lousy with 70 percent oxygen saturation, high pulse (126) and unusual but temporary high blood pressure (145/90), I have been approved for supplemental 02 at probably 2 liters per minute, so I can commiserate with your recent situation. Did I read correctly that John took you in with 50% O2? One night on oxy (with 92-96 % 02 saturation) was like a month of vacation. Still need to deal with the infection or whatever it is triggers the tightness and dryness in the chest. Right now I feel normal as I sit here and type. 

*Roy-me-Boy*, great to see another member from merry old England. Welcome to PT! (My father's father came from London to Texas more than a century ago).
Larry


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Really good teamwork here for this beautiful little feral, thanks to all of you s/he
may get the use of the beak back. This would be so wonderful. Please do let us know the time and day of the surgery, and in the meantime, bless you all for bringing this little one in for help. And Cynthia, special thanks to you for bringing him in for surgery.

fp


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Larry,

I was under 70% but they didn't tell me how much under. I read somewhere that the sats can only be measured accurately at 70% and above....I think that if you go as low as 50 then you are in desperate trouble as on a different forum someone told me her sats were 62% and that they asked her for instructions in the event of her death. She has pulmonary fibrosis, not related to birds but they don't know the cause , which is bad because then they don't know how to stop the progress of the disease.

But you walked????!!!!  Even 5 days earlier, when I must have been a lot better I had to ask John to use a wheelchair to take me from the hospital to the car and the day I was admitted I had to have an ambulance. They put an oxygen mask on my face as I climbed in.

I was on oxygen for 7 days and off responsibilities for 11 so it was the best rest that I have had for over 20 years.

Are they certain that yours is caused by infection?

As I mentioned on another thread, Lesley came down from Manchester (to rehome a PMV pigeon in my PMV enclosure) and she was in a very bad state, but she had been defying her doctor about rehoming her parrot and 2 indoor pigeons. Her lips were pink, which is a good sign as it means that the oxygen is getting through to her blood but her cough was a lot worse than mine was.

Cynthia


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

fp, the surgery happened in August, it didn't work. I would not risk it again.

The vet told me that there is an anaesthetic that is relatively safe for birds but that it is so expensive that the small animal surgeries can't afford to stock it . The vets that can afford it are the ones that deal with exotic birds, but they won't have feral pigeons in the surgeries for fear of putting their valuable clientele at risk.

Cynthia


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Toffee today. He has no trouble preening (his plumage is beautiful) or going through the courting rituals with his lovely mate Baby. I file his upper beak occasionally, but when it overgrows a bit it doesn't seem to be much of a problem. 

He is a happy, healthy, well adjusted pigeon.

Cynthia


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