# help! pigeon foaming at mouth!



## maxinec (Oct 26, 2009)

Okay, I'm not sure if he's foaming at the mouth, but he's blowing bubbles around his mouth. We just got done feeding him some peas and he started standing and stretching his neck. Is he having trouble swallowing? Breathing? Is this normal? What can I do?


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## Kevin (May 13, 2009)

Oh no, I've never heard of a problem like this. Someone who knows about this will help you soon. Good luck.

Kevin


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## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

i had a simular case to that, it cant be canker my vet told me it was fungal resp infection, treat it before it gets worst. before it hits her gi track, next thing that will happend she gonna be unable to swallow, or to close her mouth, u wont be able to get any food down her throat. most likely her immune system went got weak either doe to the chills, weather etc.
if it doesnt get better by tomorrow please take the bird to the vet, if it's what i think it is u dont have much time 4-5 days max
good luck yo u and keep me posted please
Goga


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## Mindy (Apr 2, 2009)

Is her mouth white or pink? and is there a smell?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

maxinec said:


> Okay, I'm not sure if he's foaming at the mouth, but he's blowing bubbles around his mouth. We just got done feeding him some peas and he started standing and stretching his neck. Is he having trouble swallowing? Breathing? Is this normal? What can I do?


no it is not normal. he could have a blockage from canker or sour crop or even something else, you need to tell more about the age of the bird and what his dropping look like, his eating and is overall demeanor.


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## maxinec (Oct 26, 2009)

My pigeon is young - about 2 months was the vet's best guess. He's currently on antibiotics (SEPTRA?) because he had a very high white blood cell count when I first took him into the vet about 2 weeks ago (he had been attcked by a cat).
He has been eating well up to yesterday when the foaming started. He eats peas and moist puppy chow, very little interest in seeds. His poops are white liquid with brown solids.


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## maxinec (Oct 26, 2009)

This morning he was spitting back a lot of his food, acting aggitated. He is dinking water well.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

I would try feeding him "shell free" or "no mess" wild seed and see if he's interested in that. Their small with no hulls. 
Put some on the floor or ground and peck at them with your fingers, to show him how to eat. Use your thumb and index finger in a pecking motion, picking them up and dropping them so that he can see you. But also continue with peas and corn. I don't use dog food with pigeons.
It almost sounds like he's got a piece of food stuck in his esophagus.


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## plamenh (Aug 11, 2006)

Stop Septra immediately and give calcium to the bird. He has poisoning from this medication.


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## maxinec (Oct 26, 2009)

Poisoning from the Septra? How is this? That is what the vet prescribed. He switched me from Baytril to Septra - and that started about two days ago - the same time these symptoms started. Damn!!!
I have a vet appt in 30 minutes. I will get him some calcium and tell about the Septra.


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## Mindy (Apr 2, 2009)

Not putting your vet down but I would follow Plahemn advice. He works with pigeons everyday and he really knows a lot about them. min


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## maxinec (Oct 26, 2009)

Okay, back from the vet. She didn't agree with poisoning from the Septra, but said more likely the pigeon didn't like the taste. Seems like the behavior was very extreme for just not liking the flavor. But anyway, no more Septra - back to Baytril. Also got some calcium and have given him a dose. I just finished giving him some peas. There was no foaming, but still aggitation after eating. Maybe still feeling the effects of the Septra? I will watch closely. 
Also, the vet recommended giving him "exact" (formula for baby brds) since he has lost some weight. Does anyone have experience with that? I tried giving him some in a dish, but he wasn't too interested - slurped some, but not a lot. I will put some in a syringe and feed him that way. I'm not sure how much - the package says until his crop is full.
I so appreciate everyone's help - THANK YOU.


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

does he still have open wounds from the cat attack?? are they infected??
if not i would not see why he still needs to to be on anti biotics at all, 10 days is long enough for a major wound from a cat.
can you post a pic of the little guy??
his crop should feel like a marshmallow when full, they can take more than you think.
i'm thinking he should be treated for canker also


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## maxinec (Oct 26, 2009)

He no longer has any open wounds from his cat attack. He does have a broken leg that is swollen from infection. The vet initially said to treat with antibiotics for 10 days, but when she got the blood work back, she said he needed another 10 days. I can't find the piece of paper where I wrote the results, but I believe she said a normal pigeon has a white blood cell count of 10,000 whereas his nummber was 150,000. She said he had a septic infection and this would hopefully help in bringing down the infection.


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## maxinec (Oct 26, 2009)

Sorry - I tend to answer one question and then forget the rest. 
I have no idea how to post a picture (I'm somewhat of a dinosaur at computers), but I'll ask one of my kids.
What is canker and why do you think he may have it?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Canker is common in pigeons, and with it, the bird can have a bubbly mucous.


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

oh okay, poor guy
like jay said it's a common problem with pigeons and can bring them down very quickly, it's very easy to treat, it can really flair up when they are under stress
flagyl works well (from your vet) you can also buy spartix online.
if you look in his mouth do you see and white cheesy looking stuff??
canker or trichomoniasis doesn't always show up in their throats it can be internal


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## maxinec (Oct 26, 2009)

Oh no - foaming again tonight. It was right after I gave him a dose of Baytril. Should I stop that also?
When I was at the vet earlier today, I asked about flagyl. She said that is used to treat some infections, but she thought the medicine he was on was better for him. I'm not thinking that's the case. Should I go back tomorrow and get flagyl?


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## maxinec (Oct 26, 2009)

Foaming stopped, and was much less than last night. He ate a few seeds after, but no water. He's sitting down now in his bed area, but his wings are spread out on both sides.


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## plamenh (Aug 11, 2006)

I would stop every antibiotic. You cannot treat bird with one type of antibiotic and switch to another without time to detox. 10 days of baytril is long enough period for candida to emerge. Did your vet gave you Nustatin?
Get coloidal silver, homeopathic gunpowder and activated charcoal from the health shop.
Put ACV in the water. Give him 1 tablet (check the size of activated charcoal - carbo vegetabilis).
After several hours 4~6 use 1 tablet homeopathic gunpowder. And instead of antibiotics 2~3 drops Coloidal silver down the throat.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

plamenh said:


> I would stop every antibiotic. You cannot treat bird with one type of antibiotic and switch to another without time to detox. 10 days of baytril is long enough period for candida to emerge. Did your vet gave you Nustatin?
> Get coloidal silver, homeopathic gunpowder and activated charcoal from the health shop.
> Put ACV in the water. Give him 1 tablet (check the size of activated charcoal - carbo vegetabilis).
> After several hours 4~6 use 1 tablet homeopathic gunpowder. And instead of antibiotics 2~3 drops Coloidal silver down the throat.


What is "homeopathic gunpowder"?


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

did you look in his mouth max?
baytril doesn't treat canker, you can give flagyl and baytril together.
spatrix (for canker) you can order online at a pigeon supply, but i think flagyl (for canker) is a stronger medicine and you can get it from you vet.
plamenh brought up a good point about the nystatin, often times birds can get a yeast overgrowth in their throats when they are on anti biotics. i know when i have had baby birds with it they shake their food out of their mouths. 
i believe you can give nystatin and flagyl together also.
i would call the vet and tell him/her whats going on.


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## plamenh (Aug 11, 2006)

> What is "homeopathic gunpowder"?


It is traditional Black Gunpowder, whose ingredients are sulphur, carbon, and nitre or saltpetre. It is used in cases of septic suppuration (poisoned wounds and abscesses), blood poisoning, boils, eruptions etc. Gunpowder acts as an antidote.
Homeopathic Gunpowder comes in various potencies, 30c and 200c are the one working best. You can get it from Natural Health Supply.
Usually you can administer it as tablet or diluted in water.


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## maxinec (Oct 26, 2009)

This morning he's very alert, tries to eat, but keeps spitting it out. His throat does look white and cheesy. I assume that's a yeast infection. I will call vet and get nustatin and flagyl. I have to say, I'm losing so much faith in my vet. In addition, should I give him all 3 things plamenh recommended (silver, gunpowder, charcoal)?
As for food, should I give him that baby bird formula by syringe so that he has something in his stomach - or just wait til he wants to eat by himself?


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## Mindy (Apr 2, 2009)

You might want to pm Plamenh if you need a quick answer. Don't give up. Its just that a lot of vets just don't know to much about pigeons. But believe me, the people on here do. Good luck. min


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## maxinec (Oct 26, 2009)

I just left a message for the vet. I'm now wondering if I should skip the vet entirely and go get the medicine that plamenh recommended.


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

that's def. canker, he needs flagyl now, most important, so don't burn a bridge with your vet just yet, get the flagyl first
and i do think you should syringe feed him some baby bird formula if you can get the syringe past the canker, have you looked up any of the tube feeding pigeon videos? it may be an easier way to get food into him, it's just a matter of rigging up a syringe and tube. start with a small amount like 10 mls/ccs and wait to see how long it takes his crop to empty.
if your having a hard time with it stick with the defrosted peas and corn
i'm not sure about the homeopathic remedies wait to hear from plam.
where are you located anyways, i think i missed it


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## plamenh (Aug 11, 2006)

If your vet has no experience with birds, you must not blame him. He will be the one to help you with drugs when needed. I use my dog's vet when I need something exotic.
Get Nustatin 0.2 ml twice a day. (other drugs identical to nustatin are ketoconazole, itraconazole and fluconazole) Ask vet if he has Lugols Iodine (you need to dilute it with vater and swab mouth and throat with q-tip).
Homeopathic medications are replacements for antibiotic use them to keep leg infection on check.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

It sounds as though he has canker, as altgirl35 said. He needs Spartrix or Flagyl. I think the flagyl works better though. I have had a bird with canker that the Spartrix didn't cure. Went to the vet and got Flagyl. It cured it.


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## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

if the bird will swallow the food feed with baby formula, and make sure it aint dehydrated so give him water as well.
and i told u its a fungal( yeast ) infection


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## maxinec (Oct 26, 2009)

Back from the vet - got the flagyl and have given the little guy his first dose. It's to be done twice a day for 14 days. Any idea on how soon I may see some improvement? 
The nustatin had to be ordered and I will soon have that. I am giving up the vet's antibiotics and will go forward with plameh's suggestions - will seek out the medicines tomorrow. Will continue to give the calcium, too.
He's eating a little on his own. After about the 8th piece of food, he starts to spit out. I have also been giving him small doses of the baby formula. He continues to drink some water. 
Mindy had it right when she said that you guys know all about pigeons. Thank goodness! You all are life savers - truly.
I will keep you posted.


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## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

even the little bit of food is better than not eating at all, he will be fine


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

i usually see improvement in a few days, then you can start to take some q-tips and dip them in diluted betadine, dilute so it looks like tea, dab it on a paper towel and gently swab the lesions in his throat once a day, they will start to pop off, be very very gentle, if you see any blood, stop.
when the betadine mixes with blood it gets really dark so check each time you swab, i usually use a bunch if the canker starts to come out, just be gentle


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

goga82 said:


> if the bird will swallow the food feed with baby formula, and make sure it aint dehydrated so give him water as well.
> and i told u its a fungal( yeast ) infection


What makes you so sure that it's a yeast infection. It could be canker.


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## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

Jay3 said:


> What makes you so sure that it's a yeast infection. It could be canker.


and what makes u so sure its a canker..
i had experience with fungal infections and so far all the symptoms pointing toward fungal

yeah


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

i think it is canker myself, she saw lesions


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

goga82 said:


> and what makes u so sure its a canker..
> i had experience with fungal infections and so far all the symptoms pointing toward fungal
> 
> yeah


I didn't say that I was sure it WAS canker. Only that I thought it COULD be. You are stating that it IS fungal. You cannot be sure of that, as the symptoms also point to canker.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Once a bird starts the canker medicine the canker crustations come off all on their own. Really, removing them before they are ready can cause a bleed so do not do it.


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## maxinec (Oct 26, 2009)

I am very sad to report that the little guy did not make it through the night. Our family is heartbroken.
Thank you to everyone for trying to help.


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

oh no, soooo sorry.
rip in peace sweet bird


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Oh, I'm so sorry. Too bad.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

Sorry the little bird didn't make it. I, like many others, was following the thread, even if we don't always post.

Larry


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

I'm so sorry he didn't make it. We've all been there and you need to know that you did the best you could.


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## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

im sorry really am
i know too well how it feels
poor little bird (((((((
awwwww it made me cry poor little pigeon


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I am so sorry for your loss.
It is so hard to loose a much loved little bird. 
You did your best and tried hard to save him.

Reti


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## Mindy (Apr 2, 2009)

I'm so sorry for your loss. You really gave it your best and thats all that you can do. min


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