# Pigeon in my building entrance in Paris



## tinpanalley (Feb 28, 2015)

I have to preface this by saying I know nothing about pigeons so I can't give you proper terminology. Apologies 

We live in central-ish Paris and yesterday my wife and I noticed a pigeon (regular grey, black, white spots park pigeon -- again, I have no proper terminology) sitting in front of our doorway. I'll try to describe: we live on the ground floor of an apartment building. You enter via a large vehicle sized gate with a driveway that leads to a back area. So our door opens out onto this driveway. The back area is separated by two more giant gates that remain open leaving a 1 foot gap between wall and opened gate. Ok... now that you know where we live, this pigeon was in front of our door. When I stepped over it to get to our mailbox and to throw out some trash, it walked over to the corner of our doorway and then eventually over to the gap between wall and gate in the back. I hope that's clear. 
It has been there since yesterday. My wife and I are animal lovers and while one of our neighbours had seen it and said, "yeah, it looks hurt but it's only a pigeon", we don't like classifying animals by whether society finds them attractive or not.

Some observations from an animal lover, albeit an amateur pigeon watcher...
1. The pigeon is pooing, the poo looks like pigeon poo, nothing out of the ordinary if years of living in major metropolitan cities with pigeon poo is anything to go by.
2. Its left wing is hanging down to its side. The right one is in its normal spot. 
3. Again, not an expert, but this is an adult. I'm referring of course to the pigeon although it also applies to me.
4. It seems able to move otherwise, meaning its head, eyes, tail seem to function as they should. 
5. It is, and I don't want to personify it because I believe animals should be treated like animals, but it is cowering or tucked into the corner between wall and gate fluffed up, probably to stay warm but looks up when we approach, which brings me to my next point...
6. It is chilly. For the past few days it's been 5 degrees overnight, 10-ish during the day. I know that's not exactly cold but I don't know what a pigeon's threshold for cold is. This weather doesn't seem to bother the several pigeons that sleep all night on a nearby church's roof.
7. I put down some white bread (baguette) yesterday which the pigeon has not touched. I know, not exactly ideal pigeon bread but it's what we had and I was trying to make an effort to help. So, it has not had anything to eat or drink since yesterday unless it's going away and coming back. I should add that I would imagine it would be not be partocularly liked by neighbours if I were to turn that corner of the drive into a triage area even though we have no cars in the building and the back doesn't really get used.
8. There is no way out via the back for a flightless bird. The front is only ever open as long as it takes a human to walk in. It's slow, but not slow enough for a slow moving bird.

My wife and I are a bit gutted. There's a whole world of feelings about animals, nature, what we've done to the world, what infuriating crap animals have to put up with with us humans that my wife and I believe that I won't bore you with but suffice it to say we don't like seeing animals in trouble (I think possibly more than humans). But I don't want, at the same time, to bring anything problematic (ticks, fleas, worms, etc etc etc) into our home for us and our cat, as ignorant as that may sound. 

So why am I writing... My fear is someone seeing it and deciding in that ever-so-charming human way to "put it out of its misery", for the cleaner of the driveway next week to decide to chuck it on the street or worse. Being considered by many as flying rats, a cliche that is at once ignorant, imbecilic, and human-centric, means people simply don't care about injured pigeons. But ifs this was a robin or some other lovely specimen, it would almost surely inspire surround-sound waves of "awwwwww... the poor thing" or more appropriately, "ohhhhh... le pauvre". I guess my wife and I want to know what there is to do, what that would involve, and what we're willing to commit to. On a purely practical level, I don't want the unfortunate and unpleasant task of scooping its dead body from the corner if it dies.

Sorry for the long post, this is my first time dealing with this, I can't believe this forum exists, its fantastic, you are all saints for your caring for pigeons and I thought I'd reach out to get some ideas. I wish I knew of an organisation in Paris or even a renowned pigeon person here that could help.

Thanks, looking forward to hearing from you.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Okay if you can go get the bird pick it up put it in the box with some newspapers no it's not going to give you or your cat worms or any diseases as long as just keep it in a box in the bathroom and offer some sugar water right away warm sugar water but the bird has to be warm first surely he doesn't feel well or it's injured or it maybe even been attacked by a cat or a hawk and that's why the wing is dangling. Can you minimally get the bird keep it warm in a room in a box in the dark but make sure you dip its beak in a little glass of warm sugar water if it's thirsty it will drink while you hold its beak into that water, only hold its beak far enough so the nostrils don't go in and try that a few times in a half an hour that way if it's really dehydrated it can at least get a drink, it'll be fine for overnight.


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## tinpanalley (Feb 28, 2015)

UPDATE: Just went to look at the pigeon and it has clearly eaten the two slices of baguette that we left it.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Agree with CBL. The bird won't give you or your cats anything harmful. Just put him in a box in the bathroom with food and water so you can see that he is safe. We adopted two rescued ferals. One had a broken wing and was nearly decapitated due to flying into a fan. She is the most lovable pet ever! We have four cats and didn't catch anything from the birds. Just make sure he is protected from the cats and give him a chance to heal. I don't know if he has a sprain or break. People here can help you assess that. That he is eating is a great sign. You may also want to offer other foods such as seed or peas. He would also appreciate a small dish of water. Thank you so much for helping him! We love our rescued pigeons. They are so much more fun than other pet birds and require very little but give a lot back.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Ok back in now. Hope you have read the post and will go pick up the bird and bring it in to the warm and safe. It is fluffed, and injured. I cannot keep up its body heat. It needs help. So cage or cat crate lined with newspapers, water and food dish. If you have frozen corn and peas, thaw out in warm water and feed them to the bird one at a time, warm, most and raw. There is a short video on this forum how to open beak and put in peas or peanuts or corn or bird seed. 

The bird must be warm first and then given warm sugar water. As said before, dip the beak in. I had a very dehydrated one I rescued and for then entire day I dipped his beak into warm water and even home made veggetable juice and within 5 hours he started eating seed on his own in the box while I was driving home. 

Worry about the wing later but you will have to examie the bird to see if it is a punture wound from a cat or dog or hawk or just an injured wing from being chased by one and slamming into something. If damaged with hole or injury, must be washed out with a bit of soap and water. Just apply first aid as u would with any animal. 

Then let him be for the night. VERY important that he gets warm first, then warm water, then food in that order. Jay keeps posting good links to help injured bird, I will see if I can go find it and post it here.........

Here it is...


It is vital to stabilize an ill or injured pigeon or dove as soon as possible after rescue. 
Three basic steps should be followed.
HEAT, ISOLATION & HYDRATION

HEAT:
A bird must be warmed gradually to a normal body temperature and be responsive (able to swallow). It is not unusual for a baby bird presented for rehabilitation to be very cold. (If a bird is unresponsive, please seek the assistance of an experienced rehabber or avian vet immediately.)

If head trauma is suspected, do not place them on heat.

Give the bird a quick, superficial examination. Unless there is a critical situation, e.g., (severe bleeding) all birds should be covered and placed on a heat source* (see below) for at least 20-30 minutes to bring the body temperature back to normal. 

ISOLATION:
Allow the bird to stabilize in a quite, dark, warm area.
While the bird is warming, take the opportunity to prepare any other items you may need to care for the bird, e.g., International Rehydrating Solution (recipe noted below)

A 'COLD' BIRD SHOULD NEVER BE GIVEN FLUID OR FOOD, PERIOD!!

HYDRATION:
Fluids should be given after, and ONLY AFTER, the bird has been warmed, examined for any injuries & a determination is made as to the severity of his dehydration.
All fluids should be warmed or at room temperature!

Description and degrees, of hydrated and dehydrated birds
A well hydrated bird will be very alert, have elastic skin, bright eyes, moist, plump membrane inside the mouth and well formed moist droppings.

A moderately dehydrated bird will be less than fully alert, have dry, flaky skin, dull eyes, non-formed droppings and have a sticky membrane in the mouth.

A severely dehydrated bird will be lethargic or unconscious, the skin will 'tent' when slightly pinched, have sunken eyes, dry or absent droppings and have dry membrane in the mouth. 

Depending on the cause and degree of dehydration, reversing this condition can take up to 24 hours. If the bird is alert, he may be rehydrated by mouth, using an eye dropper and putting drops along his beak every few minutes, making sure the fluids are room temperature or warmed slightly. Initially, a rehydrating solution should be administered. Plain water should not be given unless nothing else is available.

If the bird is not swallowing on his own or fully alert, he must be given fluids under the skin (sub-Q method).
WARNING!! This procedure should only be performed by an experienced rehabber or vet. 

Please follow these simple, basic, yet most important steps.
The cells of the body simply don't work properly when dehydrated. Absolutely no digestive processes can take place if the gut CAN'T work. Absorption will not take place, food sits in the gut, undigested, and will eventually kill the bird. 

* Heat source suggestions:
Towel lined heating pad, set on low
Towel lined hot water bottle
Low wattage lamp, directing the light into the cage.

* Emergency heat source substitute:
Fill an old sock about 2/3 full of rice. Microwave the sock for a few seconds. Making sure it isn't too hot, place it around the bird.

* International Rehydrating Solution:
To a cup of warm water add a pinch of salt & 1 teaspoon of sugar, mix well. Use this solution to rehydrate by mouth.
Safest way is to dip the beak in the water every hour, he may or may not drink but keep trying.

* Emergency rehydrating substitute:
Pedialyte, unflavored.
or Gatorade 50-50 mix with water.
By following these basic steps you have done your best to stabilize your little feathered patient until further assistance is available.


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## tinpanalley (Feb 28, 2015)

cwebster said:


> Agree with CBL...





CBL said:


> Ok back in now...


Thanks, guys. Some questions... 
1. How long is this recovery supposed to last? Will it ever be able to go back outside? Is bringing it in something that you do if you're planning on keeping the bird or is it just temporary for getting better?
2. I'm still concerned about possible ticks, fleas, or any other parasites it might have. Or is that just bad clichés about the "dirtyness" of pigeons?
3. My wife has pretty bad allergies, so that's a bit of a concern for long term exposure to feathers, their "down", etc.


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## tinpanalley (Feb 28, 2015)

UPDATE: The pigeon is in the apartment. Here are some photos showing the box we made for it and a shot of the pidgeon's wing. What we noticed while picking it up is the left wing has some dried blood on it, it kicked up much more of a fuss than we thought it was capable of moving not only back, tail, and right wing feathers, but the left wing was equally moving around from the body to the 2nd last joint as it tried to get out of the box. Eventually it sat still and is now just in the box. I suppose we'll wait a while and then leave it with some water and bread for the night (it's 4AM here).
Here's a photo album with the box we made, the water bottle we placed underneath the bedding, and two shots of the pidgeon him or herself: http://1drv.ms/1CbjKWJ


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Wow THANK you. I was so afraid to open this post this am thinking the bird would be dead.
Ok let me assure you first. NO ticks, NO fleas, birds dont carry those. Mammals do.
Switch the box paper to just plain newspaper lining the bottom and remove all the shredded paper. That way we can see more and monitor the droppings.

Keep away from cat lol.

Place a bowl of warm sugar water in box, and you need to get SEEDS not bread, OR you can use some bread but it needs seeds. Even throw in a few cat kibbles right away, with the bread, if you happen to have plain unpopped popcorn that would be good too until u can get some dove or pigeons mix, even in a pinch a small bag of wild bird seed, budgie and finch mix, and mix all of those together and that will be more than good enough for now.

It is crucial now that you get food and water to this bird. He does not looked fluffed at all in the pics as I was expecting. 

Please also have a good look as to what may have caused that dried blood and see if you can even rinse it off with warm water. I would wait a bit for that as its more important to get the bird settled and fed and watered. Then if you have any pet store or feed supply that has a general antibiotic I would give that as per instructions or let us know what it is and we can calculate dosage for you. We only worry if it was a cat attack that the infection that comes with the saliva can kill the bird. 

Do you have any human meds in the house like amoxicillian or ciprofloxcin? Even cat meds. Let us know what you may or may not have.

P.S. if you have any human cereal such as granola or rolled oatmeal toss some of that in including bran, dont worry for now if it has any sugar in it as a bit of that will help with energy. Wild pigeons can eat almost anything out there. So variety at this point is important as we need to know if he is even WILLING to eat. Thanks again Im so happy you intervened.

If I think of anything else I will just keep posting as I remember ok. Also grab a bottle of gatorade, preferably not coloured or flavoured but if that is all you have use it. Even any of those mineralized waters or vitaminized waters great, use those too. Keep us posted.

He is a dark check in color and yes if the wing heals if it is just a flesh would and he does not infect, he will recover within 2 to 3 weeks and be releasable. Or you may decide you like him and they make GREAT pets. See how it goes.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Quick question, when birds feel sick or injured, they blink slow. Can you observe his blink rate for me, cuz he looks pretty alert in the pics, but I may be seeing him between blinks with an open eye lol. That gives us a good indication of how he is feeling, also when u picked him up did u note if he had a sharp protruding breast bone or does he have some breast muscle there. Also tells us how starving he is or how long he has been immobile.
When u check him again today, keep those things in mind and tell me. Give him a quick check over, feet, lets, under wings, look for out of place feathers or down feather sticking up as that will indicate disturbance or injury site. Note his weight. Check under his tail to see if his vent or where he poops from is clean and no poop stuck to feathers. So far from what I see he doesnt look too bac, just sore wing.


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## tinpanalley (Feb 28, 2015)

UPDATE: We felt, with all that we've read and absorbed in the past 24 hours of pigeon knowledge, that the immediate task/concern was to get him hydrated, so between the two of us, using some dish gloves we picked him up and opened up his beak and gently poured 10mm of water with a syringe that I had added a pinch of salt and sugar to. When he looked like he wanted some time to swallow we gave him a little break. Since I was holding him, I took the opportunity to give him a once over, touching gently here and there. My knowledge of animals is limited to 20 years of owning cats but...
- the back end looks clean. I didn't want to stress him out by digging around too much back there but certainly nothing that would suggest vast amounts of soiling. Dry, clean plumage.
- I was able to pretty freely move the injured wing around. There is nothing on the breast at all. The underside of the wing looks perfectly fine, it is only the outer part of the wing that has the dry blood and injury in the upper wing area under the wrist.
- the injury is dry and definitely not actively bleeding at all. Because I cook a lot, I'm comparing the body of the pigeon using the only thing I know which is to small hens or chickens. The breast area feels as I imagine it should, as does the back and neck area. That left wing feels like it's firm (probably all the dry blood) and like a few soft bones in there may be damaged but nothing protrudes, no down pokes up, no feathers are pointed in wrong directions
- overall observation: he sits still, he turns around every now and then, he blinks, when we go to the bathroom as quietly as possible he cocks his head gently, studies us, he cowers a bit if we approach but only when we approach with hands, he hadn't drank any of the water left overnight, doesn't look to have eaten either so the water was our priority. He does still move both wings around when you go to grab him.

Anyway, that's just a summary. I have no idea if the water was sufficient but it must surely be better than nothing.

Thanks everyone for the input. We've reached out to a site here in France that we're hoping can put us in touch with an expert that can help better. No reply yet though.


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## tinpanalley (Feb 28, 2015)

CBL said:


> Ok let me assure you first. NO ticks, NO fleas, birds dont carry those. Mammals do.
> Switch the box paper to just plain newspaper lining the bottom and remove all the shredded paper. That way we can see more and monitor the droppings.


Ok, thanks for clearing that up and yes, today we'll get some newspaper instead. We thought for some reason a bedding of shredded paper would be good but I guess not.


CBL said:


> until u can get some dove or pigeons mix. It is crucial now that you get food and water to this bird. He does not looked fluffed at all in the pics as I was expecting.


I don't see dove or pigeon mix happening today. We'll be lucky to get bird feed. Cat kibble, seeded bread, unpopped popcorn are all possible. Meantime, check out our last message about the water and my general checkup that I gave the pigeon. Also, what's "fluffed"?


CBL said:


> Please also have a good look as to what may have caused that dried blood and see if you can even rinse it off with warm water. I would wait a bit for that as its more important to get the bird settled and fed and watered.


We're not gonna go near the wound til he's stable. He's nervous enough.


CBL said:


> human meds in the house like amoxicillian or ciprofloxcin? Even cat meds. Let us know what you may or may not have...


We have amoxicillin, 1g pills. We also have antibiotics that our cat just took a few weeks ago for an injury. It's in French but it's called Histacetyl which has Spyramicine and Dimetridazole in it.


CBL said:


> P.S. if you have any human cereal such as granola or rolled oatmeal...


We have sugarless plain traditional oatmeal. We'll throw some into this feed mix we'll make.


CBL said:


> Also grab a bottle of gatorade, preferably not coloured or flavoured but if that is all you have use it.


What's the gatorade for? If I can understand the purpose, I can get an appropriate supplement.


CBL said:


> Quick question, when birds feel sick or injured, they blink slow...did u note if he had a sharp protruding breast bone...out of place feathers or down feather sticking up...Check under his tail


There was some slightly more relaxed blinking late this morning which is why we jumped on the syringe water feeding right away, but it was the first sign of any kind of drowsiness. Since then, he's been fine, again check my previous message for all water and body related observations.

And THANKS!!!
P.S. Our cat Susie has NO CLUE a potential feast for a queen is sitting in the bathroom and that's how it's gonna stay. 
Also, just noticed you're from Canada. I'm originally from Toronto.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

The poop in the picture looks like he is undernourished, since it appears composed of small dark green blobs surrounded by clear fluid. There should be some chalky-looking pasty substance (white urates) along with usually-light-pea green paste in the poop.

Here is a thread link: 

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f5/poops-what-do-they-really-mean-11637.html


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## tinpanalley (Feb 28, 2015)

Larry_Cologne said:


> The poop in the picture looks like he is undernourished...


Thanks, Larry, I'll keep that in mind as we try to get him eating again. He's drinking now.

UPDATE: We picked him up and wanted to give his wound a once-over with some warm water. The blood had firmed up quite strong on his feathers so it took a while and once or twice he wasn't thrilled but the remainder of the 5-7 minutes he sat perfectly still in my hands while my wife gently cleaned down the wing. We took another really good look at the wing and it's clear that this wound is on the external part of the wing, doesn't appear to involve any bones, but this is a very superficial observation obviously, and not an x-ray. My concern now is that he's too cold from the water. We tried to pat him down but obviously he's still wet. Should we do something more or will he dry off naturally soon enough?


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

I have seen a couple of pigeons with a bad wing sprain (droopy wing) prefer to stay ambulatory for a few days or a week. One such pigeon in Cologne, Germany would circle a couple of small city blocks, maybe a 500-meter loop, on foot, staying under cars and local outdoor food market stalls near Chlodwigplatz. 

Several other pigeons with a droopy wing had a broken wing, and would never fly again.

IF you feel comfortable doing this, you could slide your hand under the bird, lift him a couple of feet off the floor, tilt your hand to see if he would automatically adjust his balance by moving his tail such that he maintained his center of gravity over your hand so he wouldn't tip off.

You could then lift him up to about three feet off the ground, then drop your hand like a descending elevator. Not too quickly, but enough to see if he automatically lifted both wings to keep from free-falling. A broken wing would not move in tandem with the other wing. I would start with a gentle drop, then maybe do a quicker drop. Even if there wing were broken, he could land on the ground without injury. This is not easy to explain in words: you have to know for yourself if you think you have "the feel" for doing this manoeuvre.

If the wing is broken, it probably needs to have been re-set the same day of the break, since pigeons have a high metabolism and the break sets in or out of the correct position very quickly (so I have been told).


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

There are re-habbers in France and Spain who _might_ be able to take him in. I have not had contact with them for a while.


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## tinpanalley (Feb 28, 2015)

Larry_Cologne said:


> There are re-habbers in France and Spain who _might_ be able to take him in. I have not had contact with them for a while.


Hmmm... Any idea who those people in France are so I can try reaching out to them?


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## Paris (Jul 18, 2008)

*Pigeon rescuer and help in Paris*

Hello Tin Pan! Because I am a pigeon rescuer in Paris, Larry Cologne just notified me of your rescue pigeon thread so I have read all the posts with interest. That's great that you took him in. 

I'm a North American living in Paris for a long time. If you like, I can take the pigeon off your hands, as it would be easier for you with the cat. I will send you a private message with my contact information.

In any case, you are doing all the right things letting the wonderful "pigeon coaches" here on Pigeon-Talk guide you. They are tops! 

If you prefer to keep the little guy, the worst thing that will happen is that you fall in love with him and become a pigeon rescuer 

Thanks for rescuing him!
Jane


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## tinpanalley (Feb 28, 2015)

Paris said:


> Hello Tin Pan! Because I am a pigeon rescuer in Paris, ...


Jane, thank you SO much for replying!! I am thrilled to hear from you, I'll send you a PM to continue talking. A bientot!


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Paris said:


> Hello Tin Pan! Because I am a pigeon rescuer in Paris, Larry Cologne just notified me of your rescue pigeon thread so I have read all the posts with interest. That's great that you took him in.
> 
> I'm a North American living in Paris for a long time. If you like, I can take the pigeon off your hands, as it would be easier for you with the cat. I will send you a private message with my contact information.
> 
> ...


AWESOME, thanks Jane, hope between the two of you, Im sure this bird will be well taken care of.


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## tinpanalley (Feb 28, 2015)

Hello, everyone. I'm glad that Jane has agreed to help, she will be taking care of the pigeon as of this evening. But I'm concerned about it not eating. I'm fairly certain that it didn't eat overnight. Without proper pigeon food, I gave it a mix of plain oatmeal, popcorn seeds, plain granola, and plain unsalted peanuts. Before going to bed we got it to drink another 7-8mL of water with salt and sugar pinches. I just want to get it through the day as comfortable as possible until it gets to go home with an expert. 


CBL said:


> Do you have any human meds in the house...


CBL, Any thoughts on the medication I told you about in my long reply?


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Yes I would give one full pill of the amox down the the birds throat and chase it with a few peas and corn the offer the bird a drink of water. I didnt say any further about the meds as you said it was going to this rescue with Jane and she would take care of it. It will only help and not hurt to give at least that loading dose of meds until she gets the bird and she can continue with meds. Is she picking up the bird today? Be very careful when u give water with syringe, u can aspirate the bird. Safer to just hold the birds head and dip the beak into some water in a bowl. If thirsty it will drink, try that everry 30 min, it may drink one time and not the next but should drink.


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## tinpanalley (Feb 28, 2015)

Quick hello, I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who chipped in with ideas and replies for how to deal with the situation with this pigeon that quite frankly my wife and I had never dealt with before. Only one thing was absolutely certain for us, that this pigeon could simply not remain outside and we're glad we brought him/her in. I'm sure it was nervous being in an unfamiliar place but we can only hope that warmth, makeshift food and being fed water by hand was at least beneficial to its health. But we couldn't have done it at all without the help of others making suggestions and offering help. There is lots of info online but having people respond to you "now" is better than readin blogs written several years ago. It lends an immediacy to the help you're desperately looking for and validates the steps you're taking to keep an animal alive.

So thank you all. My wife and I were able to learn so much about these winged wonders that we already liked looking at and sharing our cities with and to at least give the pigeon a more comforting environment and another more experienced home to go to with Jane which is more than would have happened otherwise. That's a win for the community here and not just for the feathered friend.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Thank you so much for rescuing the bird! Good work!


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