# 7 pigeon lung tips



## andrei.d (Jul 13, 2006)

Hi,

I am a racing pigeons addict and also a beginner in pigeon lung (seems like). I am pretty sad that there aren't new articles on the official PL website, I read the current ones years ago. 

I am trying to compile a list of tips, I would be happy if you would share yours.

*1. LOFT PROJECTS*

*Loft project #1*

Please see attachment

This is the first anti-dust loft project I designed. What do you think about it? It sucks, doesn’t it? 

What I tried was to create a dust free environment - the dust will be carried away through the floor, lateral walls and even under the roof. I would have a solid ground under the loft and would wash away all the droppings felt to the ground. The loft’s floor would be 2 or more meters far from the ground. I would use a removable ladder to access the loft and this would also prevent cats and other predators from entering the loft.

Of course, there are other options like the rabbit hutch lofts described on the pigeon-lung.co.uk website.

*2. RESPIRATORY PROTECTION MASKS*

The pigeon bloom, which is the main source of inhaled pigeon protein, is an extremely small dust particle (<5 microns). The mask must filter out particles down to 5 microns, the size of pigeon dust; bloom, feather particles and droppings.

Resources:
I personally use www.aircap2.com : the great thing about it is that it filters the air and also covers your hair (the hair would collect a lot of dust).

*3. WEARABLE PERSONAL AIR PURIFIERS*

- Minimate
- Ion Wind Personal Air Purifier
- Airogard

(controversial)

*4. MANGOSTEEN JUICE*
Mangosteen is a tropical fruit with natural anti-inflammatory properties, and I found articles claiming that it is good for pigeon lung. The articles are by Rick Tozier, btw.

*5. AIR FILTRATION SYSTEMS INSTALLED IN THE LOFT*

Thanks to Mr. Larry Lucas, I found a device that seems to be the perfect solution for all of us who have pigeon lung. The great thing about it is that it filters 98-99% of all particles, five microns in size and 85% of particles one micron in size!

I think that my loft project above + this air filter will be the perfect dust killer.

You can read more about it here. Does anybody use this?

*6. SYMPTOMS WORSE IN WINTER, LESS OR ABSENT IN SUMMER*

I noticed that several fanciers with pigeon lung say that their symptoms are worse during cold months and they feel better or even don’t have symptoms during summer. Exactly the same happens for me! This really is interesting and must be studied more, maybe we find an useful connection.

*7. FAT IN THE DIET*

This is a very interesting thing I remember I saw online somewhere. Jim Jenner was saying that a fancier told him that when he had a big change in his diet, starting a “no fat” diet, his allergies got very bad and he had to give up his birds. It seems like saturated fat is a critical part of the body function, especially for the surface of the lungs. He went back to a more normal diet, whole milk, butter, etc. and was able to keep pigeons again. Research book: “Eat Fat Lose Fat”.

I also found another VERY INTERESTING information, somehow related to the above: fanciers with PFL that started to take tablets for cholesterol (Statins) reported that they have seen great improvement in their PFL symptoms.

Maybe somebody with a medical background can connect these and come to a conclusion?!

---------------------------------------

WHAT KIND OF SYMPTOMS DO YOU HAVE

How does the pigeon lung allergy affect you? What problems do you experience?

The biggest problems I have are when I am away from my pigeons for more than 2 weeks, and then I get back. When I return, I always get high fever and chills that night. This may happen the next day again if I am exposed to the pigeon dust, but then, I don’t get anymore fever or chills. I rarely get a tight chest. As my body gets used to the dust again, I only have a productive cough every morning, and if I continue to be exposed for months on a daily basis, even the cough eventually stops or becomes mild.

I think this is the “acute intermittent non-progressive” version of the allergy, as they describe it. I must say that these happen when I do not use any kind of respiratory mask. After the first fever days are gone, I can even clean the loft myself (no mask) without having any problems, although I am sure this isn’t really smart.

However, I am not going to play hide-and-seek with my lungs on a long term. I intend to get used to wearing a mask and also build a dust free loft.
*update - I've been using a mask full time since December 2008!


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

Nice Post, but i solved it by going to k-mart ( When they were in Business) and buying two 24' box fans and installed them in my lofts. Birds thrived, i had no problems after that, just have them pull the air out, dander dust out the window. Some people think a little vent fan in the roof is all you need for your birds Health, and yours... Wrong!!! Dave


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## mmelloss (Nov 16, 2008)

great post good advice


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Thank you for your very thoughtful post.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Many thanks for sharing your pigeon lung tips, andrei.d. 
Very informative.

Cindy


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

Good exhaust fans are all you need. PLD Almost made me give up racing my second year, until i used the exhaust fans. I.E. No dander in the air no dust in the air, no problem. Dave


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Thank you for your post. I also feel bad for you for experiencing such problem at so early. Some people are susceptible to it. Some don't.

Believe it or not I hear more about pigeon lung disease from people that keep homers. The way I see it is that their loft is quite enclosed unlike roller fanciers that has those kitboxes. They don't go inside their loft, but rather stay outside so I would guess they don't inhale that much bloom, etc.

Have you tried adding vacuuming the loft to your list of prevention/solution?

Your loft reminds me of a big kitbox. I think that should work, except the soil will end up with feathers flying all over the place.


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## andrei.d (Jul 13, 2006)

Hello. I think that homers produce a lot more dust than the other breeds, they are always full of that white powder that leaves marks on your clothes. 

As for the fans, they sound good and would add them as #8 but what about the dust that remains on the floor, walls, etc, until you get in and make the birds flap their wings a lot? 

RodSD, very good point about feathers flying allover the place - model #2 of my loft has a "room" under the loft, it should collect everything that falls from the loft and than wash it away.

I'm still looking for ideas of lofts. A full 4 wire mesh walls wouldn't work for me because I live by the mountains and it is full of birds of prey that would drive the pigeons crazy by hitting the mesh all the time. My current loft has a full wire mesh in front so we can consider it open, but you see, such open lofts doesn't really mean you won't get PL as long as the dust can stay on the floor.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi andrei.d

Have you had an official diagnosis from a doctor?

I can appreciate your information and your thoughtfulness in sharing your dilemna and solutions. 

I also suffer/ed from the dreaded pigeon lung and was told the only way to deal with it is to get rid of my pigeons, but I didn't.

I think everything you listed is extremely important to your health and well being.

May I add that also keeping the number of birds limited is a big help, and of course extremely good loft ventilation.

I am also fortunate to have someone to help me with the cleaning of the loft, so I don't spend hours of time inside the loft. He does use a large vacuum cleaner, one of those heavy duty shop vacuums, and it has really helped with keeping the dust out of the air.

Also, having a large open (walk in)aviary has helped. I can stay out in the aviary for long periods of time and pick up each bird as needed to inspect them from time to time. Having an aviary is just like being outside. 

I also take various types of organic products, as well as watching the diet. You need to have a good balanced diet, with plenty of supportive nutrition for lungs. If you have any other health issues going on, especially with digestion-(which has to do with absorption and assimilation of nutrients), that can effect your overall health and also make the pigeon lung worse. Be sure to take probiotics and other support for digestion, as well.

It is possible that symptoms are worse in the summer, because cold/dry air, restricts the bronchial tubes, and when the weather is warm and humid, your air passages are opened more and breathing is easier.

I will share a couple of things I take, Quantum Lung Comlex, which has pine bark extract, kelp, Beta Sitosterol, Marine Coral Concentrate, Alfalfa, Blue green Algea, Beet Extract, Chlorella, and more.... I also take an Adrenal Complex which includes 3 different kinds of Cordycepts- which are known for helping with lung issues, this product includes much more, just don't have time to type it all.

May I suggest, being that you have started with these issues early on in life, that you seek the help of a practioner,preferably a doctor of nutrition. They can advise you further on what you can do, and help to rid your body of any other health issues that may be related to and may be aggravating the pigeon lung. There could be issues from your past, that are blocking your meridians and keeping your defenses down and not allowing your immune system to work at optimum perormance. But with everything said, avoiding the obvious is of course best.

Thanks again for sharing the wealth of information, and God bless you in your endeavor.


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

IF, the fans are strong enough, anything the birds kick up is taken out of the loft... Try it, in fact i am about ready to install BIG fans in my roller lofts... It is good for the Fancier, and GREAT for your birds Health.. Dave


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Thank you for your tips, I have been diagnosed as being in the "sub acute" stage and the specialists is trying to prevent progression to chronic . I also wear the Aircap2 and have bought a minimate , but will investigate your other tips as I am determined to keep my pigeons (I have 109 rescue pigeons).

I was particularly interested in the saturated fats bit as I have been cutting out fats for years! I will try adjusting my diet.

In my experience it was the white pigeons that seeemd to shed the most dander.

Cynthia


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

cyro51 said:


> Thank you for your tips, I have been diagnosed as being in the "sub acute" stage and the specialists is trying to prevent progression to chronic . I also wear the Aircap2 and have bought a minimate , but will investigate your other tips as I am determined to keep my pigeons (I have 109 rescue pigeons).
> 
> I was particularly interested in the saturated fats bit as I have been cutting out fats for years! I will try adjusting my diet.
> 
> ...


That's interesting, Cynthia. 

Maybe that's my problem, all my aviary pigeons, with the exception of Rae Charles, are white. 

Cindy


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Another idea of mine: If you have a big aviary on your loft where you can go in, then perhaps you can feed/water the birds there instead. That way you are not on some enclosed area, but rather on a very open place with wind blowing out any bloom/dander.

Andrei,
With that brick in there, where is the air coming in? I thought you designed your loft in such a way that air will be coming in from the bottom grill. With that brick in there, will it block the air?


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## andrei.d (Jul 13, 2006)

Hi everybody, and thanks for the feedback. 

Trees: I didn't have a diagnostic from a doctor, but I think I will submit a blood sample to the guys at pigeon-lung.co.uk . I don't think other medical structures are specialized in pigeon antigen tests. I didn't submit before because my symptoms were clear enough to understand I have it. 

Other supplements that could help us are: *'Tussilago farfara" tea and Omega3*.

Cynthia: what are your symptoms? 

RodSD: the idea is good, in fact, I will do even more: after I build the new loft I will even feed and water the birds outside in the garden! I love to see them feeding on the ground. This way, I will only enter the loft for banding the babies and taking the racers to the club on weekends. As for the second loft design, I guess I will use some ventilation holes on the walls to let the air in.

Also: since you can get shots to become immune to pollen, etc etc, isn't there a way to do the same for pigeon dust?


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## andrei.d (Jul 13, 2006)

And here's my loft. Some people say that having an open wall is enough to avoid PL but it is not true.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

My little portable "Dust Buster" vacum takes care of the dust...I just go around and hit all the corners,and along the baseboards....It does a great job....A good way to keep the dust from flying around,while you are IN the loft,is,let the birds out to fly...Wait 5 minutes or so,untill the dust settles down,and then go in,and vacum up the baseboards/corners as I do,then scrape up your floors,and nest boxes and perches...It`s impossible to keep the lofts dust free,but at least you can have it to a point where it is very liveable for you....Good Luck !!!........Alamo


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

Just a few notes. First of all, I have been diagnosed with Pigeon Lung Disease by several doctors (also known as Bird Breeders Disease and Bird Lung Disease), and was told that the only sure fire way to beat it, is to get rid of pigeons.

I did. Twenty five years ago, but I always kept parrots and suffered from them as well. Although not as bad. The pigeons were always in a loft but the parrots were always in the house, so it should have been worse, but it wasn't.

Many parrots are extremely worse for this condition. Cockatiels and Cockatoo's are the worse.

I now keep my parrots (African Greys) in another building and I wear a mask when I go in there to take care of them It seems to work but is a hassle. I have fans in the windoes to remove air out but can not use them in the winter months due to the parrots not being able to take the cold and draft. As a matter of fact, I have to heat that building during the winter, so fans are not an option then.

This also affects pigeon keeping in the winter. With birds, drafts can be a killer. Pigeons can take the cold pretty well, but if one uses fans in the lofts during the winter months, wouldn't this be bad for the birds? Especially with open floors or walls?

I have tried many things to deal with this problem and the only thing that works well, is wearing a mask whenever I am around them. But I have not figured out what to do at the "club" when birds are being around. Wearing a mask would be the thing to do of course, but I would feel silly doing it.

When I take the birds for training flights, I have them in the bed of a pickup truck, because if I put them in the back seat of a car, I get sick. More so if the car windoes are open, which causes the bloom (dander) to fly around a lot.

Back twenty five years or so ago, when I first came down with this problem, the University of Wisconsin was doing research into the problem, but I have not found any info as to their conclusions. They were looking for volunteers with the disease back then. Since they were so far away, I did not volunteer.

I do not put much faith in eating more fat nor taking vitamins and supplements, etc, to combat this disease.

Researching this disease, info is that this disease is not something you are born with, but rather you acquire it over time of being exposed. It is an acquired allergy. Research also indicates that some people are lucky and never get it at all, but that many get it in various degrees. Some get it real bad and it can become chronic. Those types will suffer breathing problems for the rest of their lives once it becomes chronic. Some that do not become chronic, suffer while they are around pigeons but if they stop (or take measures to prevent heavy exposure) just suffer from being exposed and do not become chronic.

The official web sites concerning this disease recommends that masks always be worn (masks as described above) and that loft coats and hats be worn, when around pigeons. That is so the loft coats and hats can be left outside, and the dander (bloom) will not be brought into the house or in someones hair and on them until they take a bath. When you think about it, if the bloom is on your hair and you comb your hair, the "stuff" is dropping right into your airway, or it is on your pillow. The official web sites also recommend that open air lofts be used, instead of lofts with four walls. They recommend that a loft basically be a very large bird cage, with nesting/perching boxes inside it so that the birds can get out of the weather, but when you are in there, you are basically in an open area. I have one loft like that but I have another that is more traditional.

I use the mask. I do not use the loft coat nor hat (yet). When I get a "dose" of pigeon bloom, I get a bad cough for several days. This is always when I fail to use my mask.

Reminds me of when I was dating my wife of 36 years (started dating when I was ten and she was 7, and been together ever since). We were teenagers and she broke out in hives (itchy blotches all over her body), and the skin specialist doctor her parents took her to, stated that she was allergic to ME! It seems that because I was putting so much pressure on her for sexual favors, that she broke out in hives due to stress. I only mention this because two things I love in life, had something in common. I made her suffer and the birds make me suffer  (my wife hasn't suffered hives since she was 17) 

I am now almost 56. I do not know if the birds will kill me sooner rather than later, but I ain't gonna get out of this life alive anyway. None of us are. So I am going to have racing pigeons until I can not.

Oh. One more thing. I tried "Hepa" filtering machines and they did not work. Apparently they do not filter particles small enough to help. I also wonder about using fans, since they actually throw the "stuff" around your loft, yard, property, etc. If the fans are going and you are in the back yard anywhere near your loft/s, wouldn't that be a bad thing?

It is a quandry for sure.


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

Well, i am sure no one is interested, but the fans do work exhausting out. Pigeons originate, unless i am mistaken from the Cliffs of the Barbary coast, always exposed to winds, and breezes. You could use the fans in winter, but you would have to start when it is still warm out, and leave them on well before it gets nasty out so they can acclimate. I have never had problems with dander Ect. blowing into the yard.(since when they are on all the time less, is blown out, compared to just starting none up for the first time. 
I am aware of the problem, until i started using the fans, which since the number of birds i have is growing, will have to start using again soon.
My Biggest problem is i inherited 8 Rosy Bourk's parakeets last summer, and they are starting to give me a little problem...(they are in an Aviary in the living room) They will go into an outside Aviary this Spring, but will have to decide what to do about next fall. Dave


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

LUCKYT. You do have a point about the conditions that wild pigeons live under. But I think it may be like race horses. I doubt they could live well in the wild, because of being coddled and taken care of by humans for so many generations. Same for fancy and racing pigeons, I would think. They are just not that hardy. But that argument goes back to feral threads, and I do not want to go there again.

Therer is a difference between a pigeon being on the wing, and getting drafts from flying, and a pigeon sitting on a perch and getting a draft. Everything I have ever read about birds, states that drafts are bad for resting birds species of most types. Except maybe penguins


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

May be i should have clarified it more. I would not use the fans year long on most Fancy Pigeons, But I Have used it on homers year round. I just made sure They had cozy box perches and had no problems for three years. BUT if you have a small loft i would use a very small fan..This is not theory, this has worked with no problems for me. Now, if your birds were shut up tight in winter than exposed to a breeze, you would have a problem for sure. 
Well, i can tell you, if everyone followed the old tried and "true" "draft" theory, HOW could any one in my area, keep sensitive Finches out in aviaries near Chicago all Summer? Or Bourke's parakeets for that matter.
My definition of a "draft" is a breeze the birds are not adapted/conditioned too. NOT what they are conditioned too. but again i think outside of the "excepted" norm for most people... And it seems to tick them off... But it works. Dave P.S. Homers revert to wild form very fast when on there own. SO they are not that very far from it biologically.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Andrei,

That is a very nice loft! That reminds me of that awesome video in Youtube: racing pigeon life (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hZRSWnzKA8). I love that video. I think it is my most favorite pigeon video there.

Some people are allergic to something. Some don't. Unfortunately, you are one of those that is predispose to pigeon lung disease. I feel bad for you!

In my case I may be allergic to rabbits. When I go closer I start having like a cold symptoms-sneezing, etc. I also used to be allergic to pine pollen for years, but apparently it is only certain kinds of pine tree. My doctor prescribed those medicine with steroids on it and wants to take me antihistamine for life. I don't want to do that so I finally figured out that only certain pine tree caused me that allergic reaction. The only solution was that we moved out from that place and I somehow got cured! Unfortunately I can't say that to you with your pigeons.


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

LUCKYT: I can not disagree with you a whole lot, and as a matter of fact I am going to try a small fan in my "walled" loft, as you suggest. My birds in that loft are not for breeding and they only have perches and no boxes, but I am going to try a small fan on the floor, blowing out of the loft. That should not cause much of a breeze. Thanks.


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## andrei.d (Jul 13, 2006)

RodSD, that is my movie, so thanks . 

conditionfreak - fans will throw the dust outside but I think it's all about the quantity. Outside, taken by wind, etc, I think it can't affect us. But as long as you have a wire floor and walls, the dust will never collect inside - and outside it becomes inoffensive being taken by the wind or washed by the rain. As for the drafts, there's a guy here who's loft is very bad - you think it will fall to the ground, lots of dirt, drafts everywhere etc, yet he wins at long distance big time.

I don't use a mask at the club since everything is done outside - I mark my pigeons, they are taken to the car by somebody else and I'm done after I wash my hands.

conditionfreak - how is your cough when you forget the mask? Do you feel like coughing or you just need to clear the throat? Mine develops in the morning and after clearing my throat a bit, I'm OK for the rest of the day.


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

My cough is a dry cough. Nothing comes up. I will cough for 7 to 10 days after a "dose". It is frequent during that time. Maybe every few minutes, but as the days go by it subsides gradually, until it is gone.

Then I feel okay, don't wear my mask and the circle starts over again.

I am older and my memory sucks. As strange as it sounds, I forget to wear the mask even though I want to wear it. I can not tell you how good I have become in holding my breath. For quick darts into the loft and the parrot house. 

The times I go into the loft without a mask and the birds are just sitting, I do not suffer much at all. But when I go into the loft without a mask on and the birds fly around, I suffer much. That is why I do not put a lot of faith in using fans in the loft (although it can't hurt I guess), because if you are in there and the birds fly around, they are covered with the bloom and it goes everywhere. The fans would help in getting rid of the dust lying around, but it ain't gonna do much for the dust on the pigeons themselves. They just keep producing more. They need it to be able to fly in the rain. It would be nice if someone invented a substance that could be put in their drinking water, that kept them from produing the bloom. On second thought, maybe not. 

In my parrot house, I have window fans blowing out the dust, and when I walk past the window fans I have to remember to hold my breath until I am a distance away. It has made me slightly sick in the past when I did not.

Darn memory though. Sometimes I forget.

It's hell getting old. Slightly off topic, but I have several parrots that are going to out live me (heck, some of my pigeons may out live me), and I worry about what will happen to them when I am gone. I have considered letting my parrots free in south Florida before I die, as I know that there are many escaped former pet birds doing well there in the wild (probably many that didn't make it too though). However, it would be a gamble and may not be legal. I haven't made up my mind yet. If I was a bird, I would want to live free for once in my life, even if it only lasted for a short time and I died. I know this will not go over well on this site, but it is something I am considering. I can not stand the thought of someone having my birds and neglecting or mistreating them down the road. I have searched and searched for an organization that reintroduces African Grey Parrots back into the wild and there are none. I would do it today with all of my Greys if I could.

Hopefuly I can find someone to take them and treat them well, but since my birds are "imports" and not tame, it probably is a lost cause.

I did not import them myself. I purchased them here and did not know that they were imports when I did so. I found out later.

But, I digress.


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

andrei d.

I was just marveling in the fact that even though you and I are a vast distance apart, with very different lives, culture and undoubtably different outlooks on many facits of life. We share a common love and a common affliction. I wish you the best with your pigeons and all that you do. It helps knowing that I am not alone with this problem.

I take that last part back. I wish I was the only one in the world with this problem.


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

Condition freak, i know the cough thing. I am just about over a bout of it myself.(did a major on my lofts last weekend). I get a real messed up, since i also have bad sinuses. Dry cough, than real heavy draining. Might not be PLD, but it Sucks none the less.
Believe it or not i Know how you feel about your parrots. I have had two yellow napes, a lilac crowned,(sweet, loving birds) two pairs of Greys (Congo) and on pet one.
Also cared for, and tamed most of the Common species. Napes will always be my favorite.
It seemed something always came up years after getting them, that i could no longer keep them. Not to mention i always worried about what would happen too them if i went, and this was 30 years ago.
I do not think i want the responsibility of a creature that can out live me by a long time any more! LOL! The plucking issue was just becoming a big issue at that time, late 70's early 80's, and over the years i have thought much about it. I am thinking now a days, how can the organs, Thyroid, Ect. function properly, when a bird such as a Macaw, or Cockatoo, flies 20 to 30 (Min.)miles a day from breeding to feeding grounds ect. When a lucky one in captivity can fly what, If they are in the right hands, 6 to 8 feet back and forth? I have noticed over the years, the plucking starts most often right after the bird matures, cause one, frustration. The organs, with lack of natural flight, do not get the blood flow that is built into the Bird by NATURE, cause two. Sorry for the rant, but i have thought about this issue for years.
Good luck, you seem sincere in the love of all your birds, and i really respect that. Dave


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## andrei.d (Jul 13, 2006)

Conditionfreak,

Here's a very easy way to avoid problems. Feed and water the birds only once a day. I made a habit of going to the pigeons at about 5 pm, let them out to exercise for about two hours and then call them in and feed them. When I enter to feed them, I always use a mask and a coat. At the same time, I do everything else needed inside - check the eggs for the journal, band babies, and so on. If you enter the loft only once a day it is very easy to remember that at that time of the day you need the mask. I also pay someone else to clean the loft once a month. 

I plan to feed the pigeons outside in the garden in the future, and this will reduce the dust I take even more, entering the loft only once a week or so. For this, I have to build a new sputnik that I can open from outside. 

Speaking of freedom, I released my breeding pairs last year, and most of them stayed. I think I will give up having closed breeding birds. I'll keep it very simple: a single compartment for all the birds, breeding, racing and youngsters. 

I use the Aircap4 from Bradwest because it also has a cap, a very smart technique. The cap is important, a lot of dust may be collected in your hair.

It's very funny because I also learnt to hold my breath for a long time. Sometimes the batteries on the mask are depleted and I must feed the birds, so I move really quickly and hold my breath. 

I always had a talking budgie in house with me but didn't have problems. I gave up parrots when starting pigeons. 

Thanks for telling me about the type of cough you have. Seems a bit different than mine. I also had asthma as a kid and have pollen allergy so I guess PL was inevitable. 

But it REALLY is good to know you are not alone. You can get support and share tips. I tried to create a pigeon lung community on my website but you here on the forum are the first that want to talk about it - I tried several other pigeon forums but they don't really want to discuss. 

Btw, famous fanciers with PL: Gommaire Verbruggen, Jim Jenner (pigeon films producer) and more.


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

I do only feed once a day. Feeding in the yard is not an optiion as I have hawk problems and once I feed them, they ain't going in until dark.

I have mentioned on other threads here that my birds only fly when released, for about five minutes or so, then they come in to feed. If I do not feed them then, they just go to ground and look for food. I do try and not feed them too much becuase if they are very well fed and I let them out, they will not trap right away and are subject to being hawk food. It is a balancing act for sure.

I find it interesting that you keep young birds, old birds and breeders, all in the same loft.

It is also interesting that you let your breeders (prisoners) loose and many stayed. Were they from nearby or very far away?


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## andrei.d (Jul 13, 2006)

You have a point about them feeding on the ground. In fact I tried to teach mine to come on the ground but I couldn't. Since my loft is far from the ground, they never come down. Last summer I even kept them hungry for 3 days but they still didn't want to touch the ground except 2-3 pairs which had big babies on nest, they ate in a big hurry and left the ground. In the 4th day the youngsters started to look bad and I had to resume feeding inside. 

Most breeders were latebreds from people far away so it was easier. But the same happened to some other mature birds, for example a 2002 bird that raced in another loft until I bought it in 2004. I set it free in 2005 and raced it in 2006 at middle distance. The birds from the same town didn't stay, of course. 

My father also has PL and he doesn't even like pigeons but must feed them when I'm away so this is why I want all birds in a single room, to avoid too much efforts from him. It is not good for the babies since they sometimes get wounds on the head when they jump out of the nests and live on the floor, but ...survival of the fittest. I am away with business for two weeks and this time my PL drops to 0 again. 

We have both hawks and peregrine falcons here and most people lock the birds in for 6 months during the cold season. I only locked them for 2 months when I had to be away but the rest of the time they had a lot of attacks, and I love the condition and speed they develop. The peregrine is the most dangerous, it scares them first, then it flies under the flock until they are so high in the sky that I hardly see them (with my glasses on). Then, up there, it starts to break the flock and hell comes. It dives from up there to the ground after pigeons, it is an incredible show of nature and survival of the fittest. I will try to film this. I am happy that it didn't catch any of my pigeons this winter. I had the last attack last week. Now everybody set the pigeons free in town before the races, and the peregrine has always the crop full of pigeons that stayed locked for 6 months. 

Hawk is not a problem because the pigeons don't spend time in the yard, or on the roof. They just fly and then get inside so the hawk can't use his surprise methods and up in the air he never has a chance on fit pigeons. 

Now since there's full of pigeons all over the town, I don't get attacks and the pigeons are relaxed. They exercise in small teams of 10-20 birds. They get inside, then they fly again and so on. Added, some fly over 2 hours a day and it is good since because of PL I can't afford to road train them like my mates do. I have 40+ racers for this season but only send 20 each race since only they fit in a basket that I can introduce in the back of my car (I don't want to take them inside with me anymore). 

You know what? PL makes us very optimized and careful for details which is useful in this sport. 

I am not sure that feeding once a day is good for developing youngsters but I will experiment this year for the first time. Do you feed once a day when you have babies on nest too?


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

No. I only feed the racers once a day. I do not breed from my racers but only breed from my prisoner breeders. Since they are prisoners in a large aviary, hawks can not get to them. I feed them twice a day.


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