# Aviary vs loft vs pen vs cage



## newbie001 (Aug 22, 2011)

Hi all,

*Terms*
Please forgive me if I sound really stupid, but I've been reading a lot of the discussions that have taken place on this website, and I've seen (or at least that's what I think), the terms *aviary, loft, cage, pen and coop* used. Now I'm confused as to the difference between them since the dictionary seems to give very general definitions. I obviously know what a cage is, *but what about the other four? *

Secondly, I am thinking of buying a pair (pigeons or doves, not decided yet) but I want to know everything that's involved in looking after them, and this site has greatly increased my knowledge (thanks to everyone here) Anyway, I am undecided on the following points which I'm hoping someone can help me with: 

1) *Type*
I have my eyes set on white pigeons/doves, just for their sheer beauty. And tbh honest, if I get 'normal' looking pigeons, my dad is likely to be unimpressed, which won't help me as he will also be looking after them, and I want him to also love them! *Based on this, which one's should I get? *(if you think wanting white is restricting myself too much, pls do let me know) 

2) *To let them out or not*
I'm not sure whether I should be letting them out. My neighbour has 6 pairs, but he keeps them in really small cages which my concious won't allow. He also has tied the wings of the 2 fantails and the 2 'polish ones' as he refers to them. The two brown homers he lets them out for about 20min every day. *The point being, the other four birds only walk about in his garden, and don't fly ever. Is this OK for the birds? * If you guys think they are, I might do the same, but if this isn't then the other two options are: 

a) I keep them in their house all the time, if so 

- how big should their house be? 
- Will they be OK living like this? 

b) I let them out, if so, 

- what type of pigeon should I get and should they be of any specific age
- what would I need to do to make sure they come back! 
I am a student, and will not have loads of time to train them, nor do I have loads of money to keep buying more pairs if the first lot runaway! There are also 'feral' pigeons around, but no hawks although plenty of cats and foxes!

Lastly, I can combine both of the options, i.e. have a house big enough for birds that won't be let out, but at the same time, let them out with their wings tied (my neighbour ties some of the wings instead of clipping, is this 'better' than clipping? 

I'm confused and would greatly appreciate any help. 
Thanks in advance :]


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

An aviary can refer to one of two things:
Aviary on the front of a loft. A wire cage attached to the loft, basically. This is usually only a few feet deep and a few feet tall, up high enough to make it comfortable to reach into from the inside. Some aviaries do go all the way to the ground or close to it.
It can also refer to a ground aviary, which is just a enclosed area using the ground as the floor, all wire sides and top other than a solid area somewhere for the birds to get in out of the weather/wind.
Aviaries are also referred to as "fly pens". Moreso when they are large and actually give the birds room to fly around rather than just for sunbathing.

A loft is the building you house pigeons in. The name comes from the lofts in Europe where the pigeons are kept in what would normally be the attic of the house. The upper level of a building, directly under the roof is called a loft. Thus the name. Similar to a chicken coop. I'm not a fan of calling a pigeon loft a "coop", but some people do. There is no difference between a pigeon loft and a pigeon coop.

A pen usually refers to a section of a loft. Either seperated by wire or a solid divider. You may have separate pens for each breed in one building, so they don't mix. You can also have separate breeding pens, in which each pair has their own little section of the loft. They remind me of stalls in a horse barn, only pigeon sized. Individual breeding cages are different. They are cages. But sometimes they are also called pens.


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## AZCorbin (Feb 28, 2011)

My comments in Blue!



newbie001 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> *Terms*
> Please forgive me if I sound really stupid, but I've been reading a lot of the discussions that have taken place on this website, and I've seen (or at least that's what I think), the terms *aviary, loft, cage, pen and coop* used. Now I'm confused as to the difference between them since the dictionary seems to give very general definitions. I obviously know what a cage is, *but what about the other four? *
> ...


It's great that you are asking all these questions, it shows you want to do things right.
Take some time and look around the forum more at birds and some lofts. Check this thread out to see members lofts. Many ways to build a loft. I am in AZ and do not have half the stuff on my loft I would if I was in a cold state.


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## Paragon Loft (Jun 27, 2009)

As Far As The Sise Consider 2 Scuare Feet Per Bird At Least,i Would Go With Homers,and Young Ones About 30 Days Old So You Can Train Them Good Luck.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

If you want a pretty white bird, then I suggest Fantails (Americans or Indians, although Indians are less "normal pigeon" looking), Frillbacks, or Oriental Frills/Seraphim. Oriental Frills aren't solid white, but they are very pretty. Seraphim are the solid white version of Oriental Frills.

All of these are more for show than flying, so they are perfectly comfortable being in the loft all the time. You can let hem out for a little bird a day, but make sure they are hungry so that you can call them back in the loft, and keep your eye on them while they are out. They are quite vulnerable to hawks, cats, and any other predators.

The size requirements for cages and lofts is 2 square feet of space per bird. You'll also want at least one perch per bird, and at least one nestbox per pair.


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

As for what kind of birds you want here is a youtube video of some of the main types

Ring neck doves: doves who are more friendly than pigeons, you can't allow them to go and fly outside though. They also make a laughing sound and coo's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6BGbVl0Pt4

Homing pigeons: Can obviously home from miles a ways (hundreds of miles) If you get these, only young ones can be trained to fly around at your loft 2 months old is the oldest people would probably recommend. Adults you have to keep as prisoners and cant be let out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgs6jMCbtgw

Tipplers/high flyers: They will fly very high and normally never leave far from the loft and will fly all day long. Trained ones have set records into 22 hours long, without training they can do like 14 hours depending on breeds. These you can get young birds or old birds, age doesn't matter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spn_UL_EYBw

Tumblers: they do one or two back flips at a time and will also fly high, age once again does not matter.
I cant find a good video of them

Rollers: Also do back flips but do very many at a time, dropping up to 40 feet, do not fly as high as tumblers or tipplers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_7xrYIOn_M

They also have parlor rollers and parlor tumblers which do not fly as adults and will roll or do a backflip on the ground
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg6xLUlBRG0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YhbtNUw3Oo

Those are the main flying breeds, homers and tipplers/high flyers do the best with the hawks, tumblers and rollers do bad.

Fancy breeds of pigeons is a very long list. best to check out the show bird forum here
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f13/

Some to name are, Fantails, lahores, modenas, ice pigeons, capuchines, owls, frillbacks, Jacobins, many many more.


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## newbie001 (Aug 22, 2011)

Thanks a lot guys! I'm glad I found this forum 
Just to clarify:


> I keep Pakistani high flyers. They fly high and all day. They do not 'home' like homers however they are a flying breed.
> Lots of fancy Pigeons are breed for show and have all but lost their ability to fly.


So if they are let out, how do they come back and not get lost? And when you say lost their ability to fly, do you mean that literally?(!) 



> parlor rollers and parlor tumblers which do not fly as adults


Again, is this something normal for this breed? 

Lastly, the fact that my neighbour has tied the wings of four of his birds, would the birds be OK? He did this so that they can roam around and his little daughter can play with them. However, when he does let them out, he always supervises them lest some predator nearby thinks it's his lucky day....thoughts?


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

You can let any bird out, and if you have them trap trained or they know how to go through the door they will come back, homers and high flyers do the best with hawks. With high flyers they only need to be at your house for acouple weeks to a month and its home to them, they will not leave 90% of the time. Yes parlor tumblers and parlor rollers do not fly, that is normal. I don't really like them. The rollers just roll on the ground and the tumblers do back flips. They are able to fly as young birds but they lose that ability quickly and can no longer fly, as i have read. Do know how it really turns out.


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## stowellka (Jun 12, 2010)

i don't let mine out..... so i tried to make a pen big enough so they can at least stretch their wings and fly a little.......


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## NayNay (Mar 16, 2011)

Nice setup you have there Stowellka- and very nice looking birds that seem quite content.


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## newbie001 (Aug 22, 2011)

wow they do like they're happy  What type of birds are they btw?


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

Those are called Lahores


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

newbie001 said:


> wow they do like they're happy  What type of birds are they btw?


Lahores  Big teddy bears!


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## g-pigeon (Aug 24, 2010)

they look like penguins really nice


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