# Suitable for a Pair or Trio?



## Microcat (Nov 22, 2010)

Im currently in the process of pricing and obtaining the supplies to build around 50 of these units, identical to the photos. They'll be used for a variety of things, mostly poultry, a couple for dwarf rabbits, but I was also thinking of using a few for pigeons. Namely Frillbacks, Fantails and Modenas.

I plan on only having a pair or a trio (most likely just a pair) in each cage. They're tall enough for a perch or two as well as large enough for a nestbox as needed for each pair. As well as room for a bath pan and feeder/waterer.

Would these be suitable for a pair/trio of pigeons in the above mentioned breeds? Would I need to change anything? (add more cover? remove some cover?)



















Thanks!


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## blongboy (Nov 10, 2009)

perfect! for fantails ..i think


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Someone explain to Microcat that pigeons are Pairs only---Trio's are nothing but problems.


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## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

50?? Really!


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

I wonder how many hours it will take to feed-water & clean 50?
My guess is 4-5 hours.--Everday


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## Microcat (Nov 22, 2010)

sky tx said:


> Someone explain to Microcat that pigeons are Pairs only---Trio's are nothing but problems.


Instead of passing it off to someone else, how about YOU educate me?  Or are you too busy?
Besides, I said likely pairs in my first post in case you missed it, but one of the modena breeders I've been talking with has some decent prices on young trios which I why I mentioned it. Keeping my options open. 

50 units is the goal for this year if finances allow, whether or not any of them are used for pigeons. One can never have enough bantams though! 


As for chores, most of the poultry units will have automatic watering systems and gravity feeders mounted on the outside of the units (the ones in the photo have interior feeders/waterers which I don't like). Most of the waste will pass through the wire floor and be raked from under the cages periodocally, chickens aren't near as messy as pigeons seem to be so that't wont be bad. 
For the pidgies, perches and solid areas will be scraped easily enough. Feeding for, lets say, all 50 units with gravity feeders will consist of maybe a half hour of wheeling a wheelbarrow around and scooping out feed into the feeders. Not much challenge there. 
If all are set up for automatic watering, they'll be hooked directly to a well pump with a pressure flow regulator bank. Not much I'd need to do there except check for leaks or kinks. Clean the cups or nipples (we're leaning towards the cup system) periodically as well.


I've had somewhat similar cage units for Javanese Nankin and White French LaFleche Bantams in the past, they were wall mount and not free standing however. The breeder barn held 250 cage units with a total of 600-650 birds at any given time. This was before we got the piping and nipples/cups for automatic watering systems so I ran a PVC pipe the length of each row of cages that had holes drilled in it big enough for the birds to place their heads in. Caps on each end and you have a simple watering trough. Took me a whole 5 minutes to unroll the hose, turn on the water and flush out or refill the trough pipe. Run a bleach solution through there once a week and it was kept quite sanitary. One trough watered around 60 cage units (120 +/-) birds.

It wasn't pretty, silver wire and white pvc pipes attached with zip ties, but it did the job quite well for a few years until I downsized to just two birds.


I love the looks of the free standing units in those photos for show poultry, which is the main reason I'll be using these instead of the wall units I had in the past, the wall units were a bit "industrial" looking. These were keyed for bantams first, as seen in the photos, rabbits second, then I figured if I'm going to have them I may as well see if they will work for a few pigeons too. Keep the place looking "uniform." I like the cookie cutter style. lol 


Will eventually be building a loft, but have yet to even decide on a style for that. I also don't really think I'll be having several of the same breed, and mixing them all up in one loft doesn't float my boat as it does some other folks. So a few different "mini lofts" are more of interest to me. Dabble in a few different breeds, raise a squab or two, see how it goes from there.


Thanks for the replies.


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## Pip Logan (Oct 6, 2009)

What are the dimensions of those? They look pretty cool.


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

I have just learned--
You can tell when someone is from Missouri---You Just can't tell them anything--They already know everthing.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

What are you planning on doing with all these birds? if your not making money off of them its would be kinda stupid to raise 50 + pens of birds just to keep them.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

They would make nice breeding cages for fancy pigeons.. a trio is fine IF your not breeding them.. as said if you let them hatch eggs the third hen would be a problem.. 

now I would change the wire.. snakes and mice can get in those.. 1/4 inch hardwire would keep them out.. you will have to face them so the winter winds won't blow in..or cover them in winter..


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## akbird (Apr 29, 2010)

I was born in Missouri, lived in Texas, found the same to be true of Texans.


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Yes akbird
Us Texans are very Smart
Our "Age" and "I Q" are about the same number.
WHOA--Maybe its our I Q is twice our age
But most likely our I Q is only 1/2 our age.
Wonder where I can find the truth?


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## akbird (Apr 29, 2010)

That question has been haunting man forever! I loved Texas, spent more than a few years there while in the Air Force. Still miss the food and going to Mexico. Most Texans were very friendly and helpful.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

akbird said:


> That question has been haunting man forever! I loved Texas, spent more than a few years there while in the Air Force. Still miss the food and going to Mexico. Most Texans were very friendly and helpful.


Randoph AFB?


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

sky tx said:


> Yes akbird
> Us Texans are very Smart
> Our "Age" and "I Q" are about the same number.
> WHOA--Maybe its our I Q is twice our age
> ...


No offence sky (i know your sense of humour)
but thought I'd change this to suit you....

Q - How many Texans does it take to change a light bulb ?
A - You have to find one that knows what a Lightbulb is first !!


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## Pip Logan (Oct 6, 2009)

Microcat said:


> Im currently in the process of pricing and obtaining the supplies to build around 50 of these units, identical to the photos. They'll be used for a variety of things, mostly poultry, a couple for dwarf rabbits, but I was also thinking of using a few for pigeons. Namely Frillbacks, Fantails and Modenas.
> 
> I plan on only having a pair or a trio (most likely just a pair) in each cage. They're tall enough for a perch or two as well as large enough for a nestbox as needed for each pair. As well as room for a bath pan and feeder/waterer.
> 
> ...


When I look and the second picture it relaxes me, I don't know why though.


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## Microcat (Nov 22, 2010)

sky tx said:


> I have just learned--
> You can tell when someone is from Missouri---You Just can't tell them anything--They already know everthing.


You send me a friendly little PM talking about how you know everything there is to know about pigeons since you had two cocks for 20+ years and raced fr 30+ years, then turn around and call me a know it all?? Wow, aren't you charming.


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## Microcat (Nov 22, 2010)

Shadybug Lofts said:


> What are you planning on doing with all these birds? if your not making money off of them its would be kinda stupid to raise 50 + pens of birds just to keep them.


There is very little income with bantams, certainly not to retire on if that is what you are referring to. Not everyone needs a good return on their investment to enjoy raising birds. If done properly, chances are good I won't make much money at all. Thats not exactly my goal, though more power to people who can make a good living with it.

A few will be shown, but for the most part they are going to be part of a preservation program. I'll be working with several Belgian breeds including d'Uccle, d'Anver, d'Grubbe, d'Everburg and d'Bozvoorde. The last three will be imported. The first two are in the US now, but some colorations need work. Sabelpoot are similar to d'uccle and I'll be working a few colorations in those as well.

Some of the other breeds will be raised in association with the American Livestock Breeds Conservancy since a few are on the critically endangered list.

And some will just be raised to keep certain bloodlines alive, if possible. Such as show strains, imported lines, Master Breeder lines, or just to keep magnet flocks alive in case of a disaster at the origin flock. It's happened in the past, breeders keep flocks to themselves and entire lines can be wiped out this way.

Now if I were keeping dogs in here, it'd be a puppy mill and money would in fact be my goal. Birds, meh, more or less just an enjoyment and addiction to me.


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## Microcat (Nov 22, 2010)

spirit wings said:


> now I would change the wire.. snakes and mice can get in those.. 1/4 inch hardwire would keep them out.. you will have to face them so the winter winds won't blow in..or cover them in winter..


I really need to learn how to quote multiple messages at once. 

Good note on the wire, that in the photo is for rabbit hutches. We don't seem to have many mice around here (several cats, some of which actually do their job, believe it or not  ) but snakes are a problem sometimes. 

I've been pricing the hardware cloth at so many places over the past year, Lowes and a local Ace store seems to have the best selection of lengths and sizes, as well as pvc coated in 3 colors which looks great but is about twice the price of the galvanized or whatever the normal silver stuff is. 

Will make note to change that on a few of the cages for pigeon safety.


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## Microcat (Nov 22, 2010)

akbird said:


> I was born in Missouri, lived in Texas, found the same to be true of Texans.


Have also lived in Texas, unfortunately. Worked in Orange and lived in Bridge City during Ike. 
Lived in Seaside OR short term. If I had to choose, I'd love to return to OR. Loved the coastline, especially in the south, though Seaside was where I first saw the kite surfers. Have to admit I do miss the ocean. Looks like Lake Ozarks is as good as it gets oceanwise for me for a while.


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## Microcat (Nov 22, 2010)

Pip Logan said:


> When I look and the second picture it relaxes me, I don't know why though.


I agree. Could be the shady location? I love the woodsy feel myself. 

The picture is nice, though in real life bantams may be small but they are mighty, and their crowing at 3:30am can be a bit of an annoyance to some. Depending on the breed, I love the sound. Some have short, high pitched crows that are enjoyable to listen to. Others, like the OEGames and Modern Games can be downright annoying. 

And if you have never heard the Tomaru, Totenko or Denizli.. look them up on Youtube. 
I hope to be working with Tomaru and Denizli next year, no Totenko unfortunately. But I can say they will be penned far away from my bedroom window. 
I won't say anything more, just look up a soundclip on Youtube if you are curious.


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## newtopidgeons (Mar 11, 2011)

You may as well use plywood on your floors instead of 1/4 inch wire. Trust me I went through it already. Sick poop wont even go through it, much less turds. If your going to use wire on the floor it is going to have to be atleast 1/2 inch spaces.


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## PigeonVilla (Dec 8, 2010)

newtopidgeons said:


> You may as well use plywood on your floors instead of 1/4 inch wire. Trust me I went through it already. Sick poop wont even go through it, much less turds. If your going to use wire on the floor it is going to have to be atleast 1/2 inch spaces.


 I have to agree 1/2 inch by 1 inch wouldnt hurt thats for sure as even the 1/2 inch by 1/2 inch wire isnt going to let enuf pass thru it but a pressure washer helps with the buildup if you need it .

P.S. I love them bantams too myself but Im more of a minature brahma type of person, thou I do love then all ,bantam chickens are the bomb!


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

Microcat said:


> Im currently in the process of pricing and obtaining the supplies to build around 50 of these units, identical to the photos. They'll be used for a variety of things, mostly poultry, a couple for dwarf rabbits, but I was also thinking of using a few for pigeons. Namely Frillbacks, Fantails and Modenas.
> 
> I plan on only having a pair or a trio (most likely just a pair) in each cage. They're tall enough for a perch or two as well as large enough for a nestbox as needed for each pair. As well as room for a bath pan and feeder/waterer.
> 
> ...


 The though occurred to me What if you placed the door in the center and split the aviary section to each end...you could dived these hutches and double your breeding space. 
Just put a divider in between the nest box sections and save space and money. 

I like your set-up and I think I'll build something similar but I might stack them making each section 2' tall x 3' wide x 4' long. Thanx for sharing


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Microcat said:


> There is very little income with bantams, certainly not to retire on if that is what you are referring to. Not everyone needs a good return on their investment to enjoy raising birds. If done properly, chances are good I won't make much money at all. Thats not exactly my goal, though more power to people who can make a good living with it.
> 
> A few will be shown, but for the most part they are going to be part of a preservation program. I'll be working with several Belgian breeds including d'Uccle, d'Anver, d'Grubbe, d'Everburg and d'Bozvoorde. The last three will be imported. The first two are in the US now, but some colorations need work. Sabelpoot are similar to d'uccle and I'll be working a few colorations in those as well.
> 
> ...


Iam a bantam lover myself.. there is a breed here in va at colonial Williamsburg you may want to add to your preservation...they are the nankin bantam. I learned about them when I voluteered for the rare breeds department with the coach and livestock..and was learning to shear sheep... they gave me a few older hens to take home and encourged me to hatch nankins.. they have a few regualer size breeds they are breeding but this is the only bantam one.. here is a tid bit about them..


"Nankin Bantams represent the miniature fowl that have been known in Europe since the time of Pliny. In England, bantams are divided between game bantams and the common bantam of the countryside. The birds are buff or gold in color, with black main tail feathers and a rose comb. Nankin Bantams are the latest addition to the poultry population at Colonial Williamsburg.

The chickens seen in the poultry houses and runs around the Historic Area represent breeds that could have been in Williamsburg during the eighteenth century. While general-purpose chickens were the mainstay of the poultry stock, ornamental and bantam fowl were becoming increasingly popular as the colonists copied prevailing trends in England. In addition, the meat and eggs produced by the chickens are used by Historic Foodways to link their programs to the kinds of foodstuffs available in the local markets at the time. Currently, few breeds of ducks or geese are listed as threatened, but the Coach and Livestock department hopes to add historic breeds of pigeons and turkeys to the Rare Breeds Program."


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## Microcat (Nov 22, 2010)

newtopidgeons said:


> You may as well use plywood on your floors instead of 1/4 inch wire. Trust me I went through it already. Sick poop wont even go through it, much less turds. If your going to use wire on the floor it is going to have to be atleast 1/2 inch spaces.


Good point. Thanks for that.

I'm no stranger to a wire brush... and I've used those long handle BBQ cleaning brushes for purposes that would make the manufacture sick. 
I'm also a fan of the metal paint scrapers, and those poor things rarely touch paint. lol!


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## Microcat (Nov 22, 2010)

JaxRacingLofts said:


> The though occurred to me What if you placed the door in the center and split the aviary section to each end...you could dived these hutches and double your breeding space.
> Just put a divider in between the nest box sections and save space and money.
> 
> I like your set-up and I think I'll build something similar but I might stack them making each section 2' tall x 3' wide x 4' long. Thanx for sharing


Hmm, not a bad idea. Might keep that in mind! 

Be sure to post pics of your set up if you decide to build something similar. I'd love to see it.

On the aviary note though, I'm still up in the air about having it covered or making them uncovered. I can see pros and cons with both, so thats something Ill have to decide on. Any opinions?


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## Microcat (Nov 22, 2010)

spirit wings said:


> Iam a bantam lover myself.. there is a breed here in va at colonial Williamsburg you may want to add to your preservation...they are the nankin bantam.


I've had Nankins in the past and do hope to obtain some in the future again. On post 6 I mentioned the Javanese Nankin were the breed we had at the same time we were working with the White French LaFleche Bantams.  We had the single comb Nankins, at that time the rosecombs were few and far between. 

I found them to be extremely social and curious, more like pets than anything. At that time Eggbid was still working, and was one of the few places one could connect with others to exchange birds and eggs cross country - before it started going downhill and then shut down completely.  The last of my flock went out to a woman in South Dakota. Lost track of it after that, and that was some years ago unfortunately. I wish I could go back in time and keep better records. I was bad at that at the time though.

Another breed I'm dying to get my grubby hands on is the Black Penedesenca. *sigh* I do love those extra dark-eggers.

I could go on and on chatting chickens. I have such a "fowl" mouth sometimes. 


Anyways, thanks everyone for the replies on the cage units. I'll be sure to get photos posted when we start the big-bad-build-project!


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