# new pigeon fighting old one



## Mr. Spooky (Feb 22, 2011)

i just recently got a new pigeon and when i put them in the cage together the new 6 month old runs and pokes my older pigeon on his back and he just flattens himself...what should i do?? is this normal??


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

The new bird--Put Liquid soap on its wings so it can't get off the floor.
Then older bird can get on a perch????--away from the younger bird?
Let the new bird KNOW he does not "own" the loft.


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## Mr. Spooky (Feb 22, 2011)

the older bird gets on the perch but he keeps coming down where the younger one starts running up on him and poking his neck..
how do i let him know he doesn't own the loft.??


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Soap Him Down


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## Mr. Spooky (Feb 22, 2011)

but i don't understand what the soap is going to do how does the soap make him know that the cage isn't his??? can you explain?


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Mr. Spooky---You tell us how to do it. ---PLEASE
Try it then you will KNOW.
I'm Sure you know the answer--BUT will not share it with the forum.
Sorry I don't have a Source--I only kept pigeons 40 or so years.


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## Mr. Spooky (Feb 22, 2011)

Listen, i want to know why "soaping" my bird is going to help me. You just tell me to soap him and you expect me to do it without knowing the consequences???? Ill just wait for a more serious answer, sir.


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## Mr. Spooky (Feb 22, 2011)

From someone with so much experience i would expect more detail to your advice.


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

YEP--you can tell a 20 year---just can't tell them anything.
Let them learn like I did.
The "consequences"--it will work.
MORE detail???Soap it REAL GOOD

SO--someone --give him a SERIOUS answer--and me also.


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## Mr. Spooky (Feb 22, 2011)

I came here for an answer and all i got was "soap his wings". I asked why and you wont explain. Why do you act like this? Why do you have to make yourself look bad and act like a jerk, when all i was doing was asking why that would help? Why couldn't you just elaborate more to what you said? I'm sorry but for a man of your age i would of expect you to be more patient/willing to help.


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Mr.Spooky--you asked--I told you how.
I hope someone else can give you a better ansewer and explain why they do it their way.
Maybe after you "TRY" it--you can post on this site your results.
THAT that old 75 y/o was WRONG AGAIN.


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## Mr. Spooky (Feb 22, 2011)

I'm not saying you are wrong, i would just like more detail. Is that so hard to do? I guess it is for you. Have a good day sir!


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## Birds (Apr 11, 2011)

Thanks sky tx , got one I am going to soap tomorrow , he thinks he owns the whole farm .


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## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

He asked you to soap the new bird,bcoz,once you soap the new bird,its wings will become really wet and so it wont be able to fly up-to the perch,where the old bird is sitting.......and the new bird will be forced to stay at the bottom of cage,as it cannot fly for a while due to the soaping !!! I hope,you are clear now.......


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## Mr. Spooky (Feb 22, 2011)

It makes sense but the once the soap is gone will the problem same problem persist? Will the bird still attack him when he comes down from he perch? I just don't get how soapy wings will make the bird not attack. He doesn't fly up to the perch to attack him, he only attacks when he is walking on the floor.


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

MR. Spooky--Just forget my post--DELETE IT.
FOR DETAILS-get a bottle of Liquid soap--you try it--makes lots of notes--how much you used on how many flights--had to soap more flights?--Keep good records and post them with your results.
Its several 100 members on this site needs a true and correct answer--as no other member has given you an answer.
O K FOLKs--Help him ---post an answer along with your Source and Details.
I did not do very GOOD with my answer--Because my AGE & I Q are the same number.


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## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

Usually the birds decide,who is the alpha bird(dominant bird) ........by doing the wing slap against each other.so during the fight,the new one with soapy wings will have a disadvantage over the old dry bird,ultimately when the fight happens during this period........the old bird will win the fight due to advantage of dry strong wings


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## Mr. Spooky (Feb 22, 2011)

sky tx said:


> MR. Spooky--Just forget my post--DELETE IT.
> FOR DETAILS-get a bottle of Liquid soap--you try it--makes lots of notes--how much you used on how many flights--had to soap more flights?--Keep good records and post them with your results.
> Its several 100 members on this site needs a true and correct answer--as no other member has given you an answer.
> O K FOLKs--Help him ---post an answer along with your Source and Details.
> I did not do very GOOD with my answer--Because my AGE & I Q are the same number.


Listen old man, no one is amused by you and your half ass reply's, sorry.



boneyrajan.k said:


> Usually the birds decide,who is the alpha bird(dominant bird) ........by doing the wing slap against each other.so during the fight,the new one with soapy wings will have a disadvantage over the old dry bird,ultimately when the fight happens during this period........the old bird will win the fight due to advantage of dry strong wings


But the thing is that the younger bird doesnt attack with its wings. He pokes him with his beak. How can i stop this?


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## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

Then let the nature decide.......just leave it to them,they will sort it among themselves in 2 days time,u should not not intervene unless they is some nasty injuries


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Help me Folks
Mr Spooky has not been on this site but 2-3 months.
AND does not know how to take sky-tx answers.
Someone explain to him I am a "PAIN" in the butt and has been for the Last 7-8 years.
Even banned from this site 2-3-4-times for giving true and correct answers--Just not like the Monitors "demand" they be typed.


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## Mr. Spooky (Feb 22, 2011)

You're a funny guy, i actually like you.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

What the new bird is trying to do is to become the dominant alpha bird. He is trying to establish himself as the boss.

Because you don't want to do that you try to prevent the new bird from getting bossy so you try to do something to the bird to become so to speak "disabled." Some people soak the feathers (flight feathers or wing feathers) to prevent the bird from flying and chasing the old bird. Some people band/tie the pigeon legs together with a rubber band or string. The bird can still move, walk, but if it tries to run, it can fall to his head and would "feel" less dominant. Some might just clip the feathered wings to prevent the bird from flying inside. There are other procedures. At my loft when I see a bird like that bullying other birds, I usually use my hand and pushed it back.

The whole behavior is nothing more than establishing a pecking order. It should subside as weeks go by. It is a natural occurrence if you introduce any new birds. But the difference ordinarily is that new birds are the ones that get bullied. Usually you let nature takes its course. They do need a pecking order. There are leaders and followers in your loft.


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## Mr. Spooky (Feb 22, 2011)

Well he keeps pulling feathers out of his back and poking around his face, im afraid he will kill him.


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## Birds (Apr 11, 2011)

My chickens do that and I usually have to remove the one that has been injured , if the aggressor sees any blood or any indication of an injury it will peck at it until it kills it . I remove the bird until it is healed and introduce back into the flock and usually that's the end of that . For pigeons , I am just going to read what the experienced folk have to say . Chickens are and can be cannibals at times . I don't know if pigeons are that way . I do have a pigeon that is FULL of alpha ! lol He doesn't peck but sure as heck lets everyone know he is King . Some of his antics are benign and rather funny to watch at times .


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## Mr. Spooky (Feb 22, 2011)

Im not very good with bird, the only reason I got this new pigeon was because I thought the older one needed a friend. Im actually considering selling it now for $30. I have pictures if anyone is interested. I live in Oceanside CA.


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## Birds (Apr 11, 2011)

We have parrots too , I would never introduce another parrot into an established ones cage . There is your problem , If it were being introduced into a small kit you may not be having this problem . Can you cage the new bird and put him inside the bigger cage and let them kinda get used to one another ? Again , with pigeons I am not sure , I am learning , but with chickens and parrots we know what to do .


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

The Friend the older Cock "NEEDED" is a young Hen.
Maybe you can swap for a hen.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Mr. Spooky said:


> Well he keeps pulling feathers out of his back and poking around his face, im afraid he will kill him.


Again he is trying to be a bully. You may try all those technique mentioned above. For the moment you may lock that bully bird for now. When they do fight and if they fight hard enough it would be bloody.

I would try the rubber band/string method for now. The new bird should not be able to chase and peck on the old bird after that. Do that for couple of days. You are doing it right when you see that the new bird stumbles when it tries to chase the old bird. If there is no change, then the band/string is still too long. Shorten it. If the bird can't walk right, then it is too short. If it stumbles right away walking, then the band/string is too short. You do have to experiment on this one!

Now if the new bird flies and ousts the old bird on the perch, then soaping the wing will work on this one. I have also used taping the primary feathers on one of the wings to prevent the bird from flying. I used painters tape and a masking tape. Basically you gather the primary wing feathers together and tape them so the bird can't spread the wing.

Usually by the next day these behavior should subside. Hopefully your loft is big enough else you may have territorial dispute which could be more intense.


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## Mr. Spooky (Feb 22, 2011)

And where and with who can I swap for a hen??


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

sky tx said:


> The Friend the older Cock "NEEDED" is a young Hen.
> Maybe you can swap for a hen.


I would agree on this one. Two cocks in a cage is chaotic. They like to fight. That way I prefers group of hens instead. They are much nicer to each others.

Do note that if you add a new hen, the old cock may chase it and peck also like the behavior you are noticing now. That is a mating behavior though.


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## Mr. Spooky (Feb 22, 2011)

Thanks everyone for the good replies, even sky tx..
thanks buddies..


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## Birds (Apr 11, 2011)

Spooky ,
many things said on here are from trial and error , not from textbooks , that is why sources aren't available , the ideas and advice come from many years of husbandry .
I thought I got my chops busted several days ago , but in actuality I didn't , I did kinda word my question somewhat wrong though . sky tx has forgotten more than I will ever learn . If he told me a cock could pull a train I would hook it up . I do owe an apology to a fellow member of this forum ,because I fuzzed up over a reply I got . It's a great forum with great folk that are more than willing to help if we newbies will just listen and learn .


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## Mr. Spooky (Feb 22, 2011)

I wasn't asking for sources, just an explanation on how to do things. You would think if someone told me to soap my birds wings they would tell me how to do it. Yeah it sound simple enough but, it can be tricky on its own. How much soap? Should I worry that the bird will eat the soap of his feathers? How to remove the soap? See questions like that, I wasn't asking for much. I agree, all the advice is what people have learned in the many years of having pigeons.


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

When he learns that he does not own the loft--just give him a good washing--when the feathers dry--they will be the same as they were before the soap.
I'v never had one to die from trying to get the soap off.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Here is one way of soaping your birds:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPReyZgHzWY


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## Mr. Spooky (Feb 22, 2011)

So will the soaping of his feathers also stop him from poking at my older birds neck and face area? Because most of the posts here keep telling me that will stop him from flying onto the perch to attack, and from slapping him with his wings.


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## Birds (Apr 11, 2011)

spooky , I kinda agree about specifics , but these guys have been doing it so long that they can just do it in their sleep , you and I need the specifics , the who , when , where and why , and that's not asking to much . Dr.Boney and sky tx have been great sources of info for us . With those two gentlemen you have a definitive book on pigeon husbandry .


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## Birds (Apr 11, 2011)

spooky , if the pecking is constant , then remove the new bird , like I said , with chickens they will peck one to death . Where did you get the bird ? Can you take it back and trade it for a hen ? Any swap meets in your area ? Your problem will be resolved with a permanent removal of said bird , if the cannibalistic behavior continues .


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## Mr. Spooky (Feb 22, 2011)

The bird has been removed.
I got the bird down in san diego and these people has bad behavior so I highly doubt they would want the bird back..a member on here George Simon live in my area..I have contacted him..


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## Birds (Apr 11, 2011)

spooky , what breed of bird was it ?


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## Mr. Spooky (Feb 22, 2011)

Its a brown and white komourner tumbler. Just google it and the the first ones that come out look just like mine.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Mr. Spooky said:


> So will the soaping of his feathers also stop him from poking at my older birds neck and face area? Because most of the posts here keep telling me that will stop him from flying onto the perch to attack, and from slapping him with his wings.


You don't know yet. 
Soaping will discourage the new bird from flying as you have mentioned, but sometime it can calm them down. And sometimes they feel vulnerable wet so they wont do the bullying. Soaping's primary function is to prevent flying and attacking the bird in the perch.

Each bully birds respond differently to treatment. You just have to try and see. The string/band method works for me the best. I always use it first and it works the same day--the bully will stop bullying when it realizes it can't run and chase.


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## Birds (Apr 11, 2011)

spooky ,
RodSd ,gave some interesting advice , maybe you can give that a whirl , try to find you a hen or two and maybe love will fill the air lol . I truly hope you all the best spooky . At the moment , the removal may be your best bet until you can get a hen . Best wishes !

Kathy's Loft


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