# Young Woodie, Feeding Advice Needed.



## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

I've just taken on a young wood pigeon today that someone had found. I've not actually hand reared a pigeon before, and although I've read posts in the past just out of interest, never thought I'd end up doing it myself. I apologise in advance as I know I'm asking things that there are probably already in various threads, but I need to get on with feeding this little one urgently as he seems to be starving and can't stop now to hunt for the info.

I have been lucky enough to get some Kaytee Exact just now, as I remember seeing this mentioned.These are my immediate queries:

1. How much should I feed him, and should it be runny or what type of 
consistency do I need to make it?
2. How often.
3. Is it safer to use a syringe or let him feed from a tube. He does keep 
forcing his beak between my fingers trying to feed as he would from his
mum. (I was a little scared of this after reading about the poor little dove
that expirated on Exact when feeding.
If using a syringe, do you put the food right to the back of his throat or
just in his mouth and let him swallow. I'm nervous of doing the same.
4. How about drinking. Would he be able to drink yet if I put his beak in 
water, or should I not try this yet? 
I did give him some defrosted sweet corn and he swallowed that well.

I just want to get him comfortable and fed before going to bed.
I'm going to post this now, but have to go out for a moment to pick my
daughter up, and will come back on when I get back to see if anyone can
help me tonight. (just didn't want you to think I'd disappeared!).

Thanks,

Janet.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Hi Janet,

I would say the only time there's a problem with using the cut-off syringe or tube that they can stick their beaks in, is when they *aren't *carefully monitored so the beak is disengaged frequently and they come up for air. They - any pigeons - tend to get formula all over their beaks and faces, so if they are stuck into it for too long then their nostrils can become clogged and there is the danger of them breathing in mixture. 

The defrosted corn and peas is fine as a temporary measure, as would be little balls of moistened day old wholemeal bread, just to get some nourishment in him. 

Unfortunately, I think Cynthia has retired for the night (now she may prove me wrong!) and she would be better able to say how much water to mix with the Kaytee. I'd say it needs to be thin enough that it kinda slopped about in a bowl, rather than being a thick immovable mass, but not just a liquid. Actually, anyone who has used a rearing formula can advise on that, I'm sure.

Try for 20 - 30 ml for now, to tide him over till tomorrow

You'd get a bit messy, but you could give him globs of Kaytee mix by hand, too.

How much, how often would depend on the approx age of the woodie - whether it's still just a baby or if it is a good couple of weeks or more old. If it eats the corn OK, I guess it's a youngster rather than a fuzzy baby.

No harm in dipping his beak, well below the nostrils, 
though if he has formula, that would give him the necessary water content. 

John


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

*Young Woodie*

Hi John,

Yes I gathered it would be too late tonight to catch Cynthia. Thank you very much for your help, it will get him through the night and I can try and locate some relevant threads and read up more tomorrow. 

Thanks again,

Janet


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Hi,

Just before I toddle off to bed too (early start), the amount I mentioned would be for a growing youngster - if it's a real baby, then he'd not take so much (if you feed from an open container, then they tend to waste a lot anyway).

John


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Janet,

Sorry I am so late, I have only just logged on.

His eagerness to eat from your fingers would make him a good candidate for the syringe and balloon method of feeding, the food must be 39 degrees celcius and you have to stop feeding a few times during the meal.

The thickness of the Kaytee depends very much on how old the baby is. You start off with a very thin mixture and build up to the consistency of Ketchup.

The quantity that you feed also depends on age. When the feeding ends the crop should be visibly larger than it was and squishy. Let it rest frequently while you feed it, so the food will go down.

If you have the Kaytee container or packet that gives mixing instructions. It is a good idea to have some baby food stewed apple to hand just in case he developes slow crop.

I think that I started Valiant off with 5ml feeds 4 times a day, which I think was too little, then built up to 10, 15, 20 25 , then to 30 and 35 (although Helen says never to feed a woodie over 30 mls a day). Weigh him every day to ensure that he is thriving. Once he was fully grown I cut down the number of feeds. I will add a photo of him when he arrived as reference. In that photo you can see that there is food in his crop, but he could probably have done with just a bit more.

The link below is to a thread about a baby wood pigeon that didn't grow because he was being fed so little (about 4ml a day). If you scroll down to post 49 there is a photo of him with his crop full after the feeding had been increased by using the syringe and balloon method. 

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=16763&referrerid=560

The rest of the questions are difficult to answer withou an approxmate size. Because he is nuzzling your fingers I assume he is very young.

If you syringe feed put the food into the very fron of hos lower beak, so he tastes it and swallows it naturally.

Another alternative that I have used isn dipping wholemeal brown bread into Kaytee Exact and putting that into the pigeon's mouth.

Wood pigeons grow very quickly if they receive enough food. Too little food slows their growth down.

Cynthia


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

*Young Woodie*

Hi Cynthia,

Thanks for your post, it is a great help. I've just spent a couple of hours studying the threads. I 'm glad I found your pictures about the syringe and ballon method, having seen it mentioned in the past I was wondering what the heck I was supposed to do with a balloon! I'm going to try that tomorrow as he just wants to feed that way. I have managed to put food in his mouth with the small syringe but he's stubborn and when I go to do it he puts his head down hard on his chest to make it as difficult as possible! I also used the baby teat, but he pushes his head in so hard and covers his face in formula, I'm scared he'll aspirate.

I popped into our vets today and they gave me three syringes to try. Having looked at the pictures I see it's the very large one you are using which luckily is the same as one of these. Does it depend on how big the bird is as to what size syringe you use?

The bird is about 14 days old, judging by pictures. He weighs 160 grms, and is very very lively and noisey.

I'm keeping him in a cardboard box with newspaper and paper towels, and keeping him warm by using the 'microwaved rice in sock' method as I don't have a heat pad. I keep him quiet and in the dark inbetween feeds, is this ok, or is there anything else I should be doing at this stage?

Based on his age and weight can you give me a rough idea how much and how often I should be feeding him now.

Sorry to ask so much, I really want to do my best for him as it's my first baby pigeon.

Grateful for any advice

Janet


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Janet,

As far as I remember it was a 20ml syringe that I used for the syringe and balloon method.

They always get their faces covered in food. You have to stop and clean them regularly. Unfortunately there is always a risk of aspiration, but the syringe and balloon method is less dangerous than the tube method.

I wish I was able to tell you exacly how much you should be feeding now, but I am just not that organised...whenever I get a new pigeon I tend to behave like a new rescuer, watching its crop to determine whether it has had enough food. I tube fed Valiant and after a while he would regurgitate and if I looked in his mouth I would see the food brimming at the back of his throat. I thought I had fed enough or too much but later I found that if I waited a while for the food to go down he could take more. So I am afraid that you will have to play it by ear. But keep notes, your records will help someone else down the line. This year the majority of our UK pigeon talk rescues have been woodies or collared doves.

You are right to keep him quiet between feeds, but I think that you can "wean" him off the heated sock now as he should be able to thermoregulate at 14 days. That is about the time that the parents stp sitting on them at night...nevertheless I pit a blanket or a towel round the cage to keep them protected form cold drafts.

Cynthia


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

*Young Woodie*

Hi,

Can I just ask about the Slow Crop that was mentioned earlier. Is it ,as it sounds if the crop doesn't empty. I don't think that is happening but I just want to know what to look out for, and what to give him if it does. I'll get some stewed apple as suggested, is that fed by itself or mixed in with the formula?

I also bought something called Pro C Probiotic powder the other day from the pet shop. Do you know anything about this product and does it hurt to mix some in with the formula each feed. Or is it some thing that only should be used if the bird is showing a particular problem?

I feel like a new mum again, doesn't exactly come naturally with a pigeon, (not that it did with children thinking about it!), so apologies for all the questions!

I'll let you know how I get on with the 'balloon'.

Janet.

( Just spotted a rat outside my back door eating the bird seed I put down. I started putting it there instead of the garden the other day as I found a bunch of Woodie feathers where I fed before, the evil neighbourhood cat must have been around. Need to address that problem now)


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Janet,

I am not well up on probiotics, what does the container advise?

A pigeon's crop should empty completely over night, if it doesn't it will have slow crop. You will be able to feel the food in the crop. When that happens it important not to give him more food because it will just sit on what is already there, the food will rot in the crop and the pigeon will become ill.

You can give him warm water with a tiny pinch of bicarbonate of soda and unless the crop is more than half full rub it very gently to get the food moving. Otherwise just give a teaspoon of plain apple sauce used for babies...that is what Kaytee recommends. Oh, yes, if that happens make certain that his living accommodation is warm and let him rest his breast on something warm. And treat with Spartrix.

It is possible to bleed a bird's crop if sour crop develops, but it is dangerous as they can aspirate the food then. I had to do it for Silly Billy Squeaker because he was so ill, there seemed no other way of making him well again. Fortunately the water had gone into the system so the crop contents were rather thick and I was able to ease them out.

Once you have heard about slow crop you can panic yourself that a bird has developed the condition, worry about what you are feeling etc...but when it really happens there will be no doubt about it.

Cynthia


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

*Young Woodie*

Hi again,

The Pro-C Probiotic container says, 'friendly bacteria and soluable fibre, with vitamin C and glucose for digestive support.' 

It also says, (obviously their spin), it is particularly valuable when a bird is undergoing stress or vetinary treatment for short term illness. Supports birds with long term chronic conditions and old birds. Put either in drinking water or sprinkle on food. I got it just to keep on standby, as I had read several times in threads to give pro-biotic powder or yoghort for certain gut conditions. Not to worry, if I get a problem I'll be on here like a shot anyway.

As far as Slow Crop goes, I'm wondering if I saw a fatal case of that yesterday now you've described it. I had a very bad day at the shelter yesterday. Two days ago I had noticed that one of their rabbits was looking very poorly and offered to take it to the vets, but they said they'd deal with it. So that made me go in again yesterday to see how it was, but it had died, and two others looked the same. Turns out they have got Mixamatosis, (if that's how it's spelt). Not being able to do anything for them is terrible.

I then found a juvenile Woodie lying dead in the aviary. It came in about two weeks ago. When I picked it up, apart from flies on it , I noticed a very hard lump on it's chest. I squeezed it and it was a hard mass of corn seeds. It thought it looked like a growth on the outside of it's skin, as when I eased it off it left raw skin underneath. The bird was alive when I went in two days ago, so I don't know what it really died from. Now I wonder if it was something to do with it's crop as it had seed in it. 

Two new juvenlie Woodies in aswell. One was coughing up blood two days ago, doesn't seem to have done it since, but I will keep an eye out for it and check what can be done if it continues. They've had a bad week there really.

Anyway, must go and feed my little chap, will have to think of a name soon, I'm just trying not get too attached,-----some hope! 

Janet.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Janet,

Sprinkle a bit of probiotic in its water daily, it is a good idea to promote healthy bacteria.

If the seed was outside the crop then it sounds more like a ruptured crop that wasn't treated. The injury might not have been all that evident when he arrived, but the crop contents, including water, would have leaked into the area between the crop and the skin and also out of the body. I took a collared dove with a ruptured crop to a vet three times before he agreed with me that that was the problem...he couldn't very well disagree as by that time there were black sunflower seeds poking through the poor things chest!

I am sorry about the rabbits. I don't know how to spell it but this year I have seen lots of dogs on the walk carrying dead rabbits. I thought that the owners were letting their dogs kill rabbits but I was told they were dying of that disease and the dogs picked up the bodies. Very sad!

Cynthia


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

*Young Woodie*

Well, looks like I'm getting the hang of this feeding a bit better now. He had put on 1.5 grams since yesterday and I'm giving him 20/25mls of Kaytee four times a day. So hope this is means he's doing ok as he's gaining, I'll weigh him again tomorrow same time.

I've now got the hang of the syringe/ balloon, (only problem was I didn't have any balloons in the house), so used material as I'd seen that on a thread. He absolutely loves feeding this way. I have to force him to stop for a breather, as he's so desperate he'd drain the syringe in two seconds flat.

I have to laugh at his eyes when he's feeding, they roll as if he's in absolute bliss, even when his crop is full he nuzzle into anything. It's almost like a comfort thing, the equivalent of a child's dummy/comforter, he jams his beak into an airhole in his box and sits there with his beak through the hole.

Do pigeons normally keep on nuzzling and squeeking even when their crop is full? he acts as if he's still hungry, but he'd burst if I kept filling him up!
I've only hand fed a black bird and magpie previously, and they gape when they want to feed, and turn away when they've had enough, so you can't over feed them. Just don't want him to be hungry.

Thanks for the advice to date.

Janet


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Janet,

You are doing well! Yes, even when they are full baby pigeons will ask for more. In nature the parents only have so much to give them.

I never used the balloon either, I felt more comfortable with a support bandage from Boots!

Cynthia


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

*Young Woodie*

Hi, Just wanted to check a couple of things out regarding the babies progress.

Yesterday he had gone up to 225grms from the 150grms he was when I first weighed him two days. He is a bit quieter now and I wasn't sure if this was to be expected. He only squeals now once I get him out to feed, whereas before, if I made any noise by his box he'd be squealing frantically. He had the same amount to eat yesterday but has not put any weight on today.

He's pooping lots, brown and white/cream. Being on paper towel it is fairly moist, well not hard like an adult bird. I assume this is ok as the feed is soft and mixed with water, as opposed to seed eater's poop.

When should I introduce any new food, ie: mix seed in with the Kaytee , or is he ok on just the formula for a while?

Sorry, another question. Should he have a view of the outside world at two weeks old? I'm still keeping him in a box in my airing cupboard out of my dogs reach. I'm worried he may not know what the outside world is and may be frightened when suddenly face with it one day. I don't have any aviaries or other birds to mix with, only the garden birds he could see from a window, so could rig up a suitable box during the day if you think it's important.

Advice very much appreciated,

Janet


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Janet,

Valiants poops were always on the runny side, I think that we probably feed them more water than they need but that is better than letting them have too little water. He also grew quieter as he grew older, but I can't remember when that was. Once he was feeding himself he would just give a chirrup and a tiny wing movement when he saw me.

You can start adding a bit of small seed to his feed now.

Jayne very kindly sent me a book that is all about wood pigeons so I will have a read of that and let you know what a wild woodie would be eating at this stage and later stages.

He will have to go into an aviary before release, to learn to be wary of humans, imitate other wood pigeons and acclimatise himself to outdoor life. You could let him look out of the window but it is not essential at this stage.

Cynthia


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

*Young Woodie*

That would be very useful knowing what they eat at what stage. Is the book that Jayne sent you fairly current, if so, if you could let me know what it's called, I'd like to see if I can find it. Thanks.

I'm not actually giving him water on it's own yet, assuming the water in the formula was enough, should I give him any yet?

I've left him with some day light today, so he doesn't think the world is black! I'll have to sort out a plan for him as he developes, ( I know where I won't be taking him.... the place I took him away from!).

Thanks as always.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Janet,

He will need natural daylight to synthesise calcium and Vitamin D3 for healthy bones.

The book Jayne sent is a 1965 New Naturalist one, very rare and collectable.

Cynthia


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

*'Monkie' (Young Woodie's New Name)*

Hi All,

Thought I'd update on Monkie's development to make sure I'm doing right by him. I only re-named him yesterday, he used to be called 'Hoodie' in the early days, as he was a bit of a ruffian, but then he calmed down and has become a real sweetie. He looks like a old fashioned monk. He has feathers at the front of his head and round his neck, but the top is still bald! Hence the name.

I reckon he's about 22 days old now, and weighs 250 grms. He has started to self regulate his own feeding now, I wondered if this was normal and possibly because he's getting ready to wean. By self regulate I mean he's very keen when I first give him the Kaytee, but after taking about 15/20 grms, he pulls his own beak out and refuses to have any more. At one time I would have to force him to have a break as he would almost gobble it all down in one go and still look for more. He is trying to peck at seeds on the ground, but not managing to eat any as yet, as he usually drops them again. He wouldn't survive by feeding himself yet.
Should he still be given Kaytee at this age? I'm not sure when Woodies start to self feed. I do remember Cynthia saying they are slower at doing this.

He spends a lot of time preening himself, (a bit of a poser!). He is also trying out his wings, doesn't get off the ground but has a really good flap.

Today I had a few regular Woodies on the patio using the bird bath, so I put Monkie on the window sill so he could see them. His eyes nearly popped out of his head, and the Woodies also noticed him and watched each other for a short while. 

This afternoon I fixed up an outdoor enclosure for him and took him out in the garden while I was cutting back some trees. He really seemed to enjoy it. He pottered about pecking at the seeds and leaves that I put around the cage. He was looking up at the top of the oak trees where there were a few Woodies coming and going. He also went straight over and sat on a perch for the first time. Later I gave him some free time on the lawn to see what he would do. He pottered off and explored under the bushes and used his wings to climb up on top of some rubbish bags, so he seems to be coming on well.

The main problem we have is that he his so used to me, and clambers onto my hand, and isn't phased by my presence. It's going to be so hard to say goodbye, but I know he has to learn to be a free bird some day. Just hope I can find him some Woodies who can teach him how to be a 'Woodie' before he's finally released! 

Do I carry on topping him up with Kaytee as I have been until he's eating by himself properly, and should he stay indoors for a while longer?

Anyway, that's where we are at present, any advice as to how to carry on from here appreciated as always.  

Janet


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Janet,

Thanks for the update!

I carried on topping Valiant up even when he was in the doviary. After he started to eat by himself his wing waggling gradually decreased and then stopped altogether. He has also distanced himself from me now, he isn't quite as frightened as the other pigeons but he doesn't come to me. 

Cynthia


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

*Little Monkie*

Hi,

Today his feeding has altered a bit more. He must have been hungry this morning as usual, but didn't nuzzle and more or less refused to eat his Kaytee altogether. I put his beak in the syringe and he took 5 mls and went and hid in the corner of his box. I managed to get another 5ml down and gave up.

I think he enjoyed his time outside yesterday and having a good flap with his wings, as last night he actually flapped and got on top of his box. Today he just kept peering out of the top longingly, so I've put him out in the garden again to soak up some Vitamin D while the sun shines!!

I've just tried him with a syringe again as I thought he must be really hungry by now. He kept nibbling a bit at a time with the end of his beak. He is pecking at the seeds but still doesn't manage to get them down his throat so I know he isn't getting any nourishment from that yet! Just don't want to lose the weight he's gained to date as he hadn't increased today.

One other thing, is he too young to stay outside in a shed overnight ?

Thanks again,

Janet


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

HI Janet,

He will be all right in the shed as long as his accommodation is secure against rats, cats, weasles and any other predators.

When one of my young ones was still learning to eat I started putting maize inside his mouth so that he would swallow it, but before doing so I held the grain up to show him what he would be swallowing. He was self feeding very quickly after that!

Cynthia


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

*Little Monkie*

Hi again,

I've just been putting some seeds in the front of his beak, and he swallows them fine. He needs to fine tune getting them into his mouth once he's picked them up, that's the bit he hasn't mastered yet, instead of flicking them which sends them shooting out sideways! I suppose he'll get there in the end.
He's not got all his feathers yet, still has bare patches under his wings and on his neck so that's why I wasn't sure if he should be outside. Unfortunately we do have a rat problem at the moment, and I can see where one has been burrowing under one of the sheds. I'd put him in his cage in there but they might squeeze between the bars, so perhaps not. He'll have to put up with his box as I can't bring the cage in the house.

Thanks Cynthia, I hope you don't mind me picking your brain!  

Janet


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Janet, 



If a Peeper or Squeaker is not enthusiastically eating his formula, it is almost always because he does not like the formula, and after the initial blush of desperate eating for a day or two, where he was willing to compromise out os desperation, he will then merely taste it and refuse it, unless he the formula is definitely agreeable to him.


Plain K-T seems to often invite this reaction after a little while...and not having the formula the right consistancy and temperature, definitely will.

Formula needs to be quite watery/soupy...and needs to be as close as possible to his own Body Temperature...and made fresh each day, being refrigerated, covered, to be heated in a pan of Water, for each meal.


Mixing formula extempore for each meal, useing hot tap water and a fast stirr to do it, and not letting it hydrate, invites several liabilitys or even very real dangers to the Baby, which I feel are best avoided.


How one keeps correctly 'soupy' formula in the barell of a Syringe with a perforated diaphram on the end, without it leaking out, I do not know, unless one keeps it tilted with the diaphram end 'up'.


There is no way we can feed them as perfectly as their parents would have..!


Lol...

But, we can reduce the variables which are known to adversely effect their enthusiasm, and, we can enhance those variables which are known to promote it.


I myself use the hollow side of a conventional people-baby Nipple, or Teat, and into the Hollow side, I put the formula, and they then insert their Beak into it, and eat.

I make formula useing some 'Hagens' (K-T is fine too, but just make sure it is new, fresh, and has been continuously refrigerated or it will be racid and bad tasteing to the Bird) powder Baby Bird food mix, and to it, I add fresh ground Seeds and dried Berrys, Nutrical, Malt, and whatever else...adding small whole Seeds to the formula also once the Baby is more than a week old.


No one has turned their Beak up to this, and, Dove and Pigeon Babys alike have always shown enthusiasm and assertiveness come chow time.


Woodies, more than regular Pigeons, should have a diet consisting of not merely of Seeds, but of small fruiting bodys, buds, small Berrys, and fresh Greens, also.

Small dried Berrys and some fresh Greens can be ground into coarse powder or fine, along with the Seeds, in any small counter top kind of Coffee Grinder, and to this one adds some powder formula 'K-T' or kindred stuff, and this then is the dry mix, one takes some of, to add Water to, and to hydrate for an hour or more, or overnight even, for their Day's formula.


I use about the same things for regular Pigeon Babys as I would for a Woodie, anyway, in making their formulas.



Hope this helps...!


Best wishes,


Phil
Las Vegas


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

*Woodie Feeds*

Hi Phil,

Thanks for all your info. I've had another bad day with his feeding, he really refuses the formula but isn't progressing with seed eating yet, although he spends ages trying! It's interesting what you say about this happening. It hadn't crossed my mind that even when hungry they'd refuse to eat.

It's worrying when I see how empty his crop is and he hardly takes enough to make much difference.

I've been mixing it and keeping it in the fridge after seeing you mention this on someone elses thread in the past. For about five days now I've mixed in some crushed sunflower hearts, that went down ok in the beginning. I also have some small canary seeds I put in aswell.

You know you're right, it isn't easy filling the syringe when the mix is coming out of the other end!!! It is possible though, it's a matter of balance. Usually on my early feed, when I'm half asleep, I end up tipping it too far one way and it pours out the other end. You'd laugh if you could see me when there is air in the syringe, and I push the plunger in, many a time I've ended up spraying the walls as it shoots out!!!!

Anyway tonight I tried some greens as you'd mentioned that. I hope this was alright, I mixed some soaked canary seeds and chopped up spinach with a small amount of Kaytee. I've got to say that went down a treat, he really guzzled that. I was worried about filling him up with too much seed, so I tried to get hime to take the remainder of the Kaytee, and he refused again. So it looks like it is the formula he's fed up with. I'll try that again before bed and see how it goes.

I've had so many Woodies in my garden this last week, I counted twenty two in an oak tree in the middle of the garden at one time today. They are going mad for something up there. I wish I knew what it was, I'd climb up and get it if I thought he'd eat it.

So thanks for the info, It certainly helped this evening.

Janet


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

*Woodie Feeds*

Hi Phil,

Thanks for all your info. I've had another bad day with his feeding, he really refuses the formula but isn't progressing with seed eating yet, although he spends ages trying! It's interesting what you say about this happening. It hadn't crossed my mind that even when hungry they'd refuse to eat.

It's worrying when I see how empty his crop is and he hardly takes enough to make much difference.

I've been mixing it and keeping it in the fridge after seeing you mention this on someone elses thread in the past. For about five days now I've mixed in some crushed sunflower hearts, that went down ok in the beginning. I also have some small canary seeds I put in aswell.

You know you're right, it isn't easy filling the syringe when the mix is coming out of the other end!!! It is possible though, it's a matter of balance. Usually on my early feed, when I'm half asleep, I end up tipping it too far one way and it pours out the other end. You'd laugh if you could see me when there is air in the syringe, and I push the plunger in, many a time I've ended up spraying the walls as it shoots out!!!!

Anyway tonight I tried some greens as you'd mentioned that. I hope this was alright, I mixed some soaked canary seeds and chopped up spinach with a small amount of Kaytee. I've got to say that went down a treat, he really guzzled that. I was worried about filling him up with too much seed, so I tried to get hime to take the remainder of the Kaytee, and he refused again. So it looks like it is the formula he's fed up with. I'll try that again before bed and see how it goes.

I've had so many Woodies in my garden this last week, I counted twenty two in an oak tree in the middle of the garden at one time today. They are going mad for something up there. I wish I knew what it was, I'd climb up and get it if I thought he'd eat it.

So thanks for the info, It certainly helped this evening.

Janet


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> I've been mixing it and keeping it in the fridge after seeing you mention this on someone elses thread in the past.


Janet, Kaytee must *always* be made up fresh before feeding. Anything left over *must be discarded*.

The manufacturers instructions are to boil water and let it cool to the correct temperature, mix it and let it rest for a minute before feeding, discard the rest. It goes off very quickly.

We have found that pigeons refuse their food if it is not warm enough. It should be 39 degrees.

At this age it should be mixed to the consistency of Ketchup.

Cynthia


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> I've had so many Woodies in my garden this last week, I counted twenty two in an oak tree in the middle of the garden at one time today. They are going mad for something up there


Do you have beech trees? A friend of mine says they are even going into his garden to eat the beech cobs.

They eat acorns, too.

Cynthia


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

*Woodies in the oak trees*

We are surrounded by oak and yews. It may be the acorns then as I saw Jays in there aswell and they eat acorns.

I put Monkie out in his cage under the oak today so he could watch the activity. The Woodies on the ground gave him a wide berth which was a shame. If only they would take him under their wing, (excuse the pun), it would be ideal at present with so many around to learn from them. He did have a go at an acorn himself when one fell into his cage. 

Janet


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

*Re-Feeding Problem*

I initially did mix it with boiling water and let it cool, then I saw a thread that mentioned they mixed it with hot tap water. The packet just says to mix with hot water I think, so I've changed about somewhat. I'll revert to the beginning.

He always has it at the same temperature and like a ketchup consistency, so I'm at a loss as to what the problem is. I'll be glad when he gets the hang of getting the seeds in his mouth. I do hand feed him a few so he might cotton on.

I guess he's a fussy eater.

Janet


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hi Janet

Sounds like you're doing a great job with your little woodie. Wish we had them here.

I can't give any advice about what to feed a woodie since I've never cared for one but I can tell you about how we use Exact. 

We never, ever, refrigerate Exact that has been made up to feed a pigeon. It is really unnecessary and could be detrimental to the pigeon's health. It should be made fresh with each use. Matter of fact, if we have several babies at one time, each baby gets a fresh batch made just for them. I measure out the Exact and put it in a small container, then run regular tap water just as hot as it will get and start pouring it into the Exact, little by little, stirring constantly, until it gets to the right consistency. The consistency always depends on the bird's age and condition. For very young ones it is more watery and then thickens as they grow. We used to boil water and I even went through 2 thermometers trying to get it to the right temperature. The rehabber who trained us said we really didn't need to do all that and since then we use hot tap water. Since we keep our Exact in the freezer, the coldness of it offsets the extremely hot water and by the time I have stirred it for a couple of minutes it is still warm enough to use.

Exact does thicken a lot but you just keep adding the hot water and within a couple of minutes it gets to the right consistency. 

We have had no problems using Exact this way for many years. I love the stuff! 

Do you think it would help to make it less watery now that he is growing? That may be part of the problem.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

*Monkie's feeding.*

Hi All,

Thanks for all your input re-Exact. I've had a much better response from him the last three feeds. I think he's taking it better now with the spinach and soaked seeds added. It does seem thicker with this in it and maybe that is making the difference. The temperature is the same as I fed it before as I use the thermometer to check. He really guzzled down 25ml this morning and yesterday with the eyes rolling as he used to do, so that was satisfying to see. 

Cynthia, he's at last taken to eating peas by himself!! I fed him a couple showing them to him first, then he did it for himself, after that there was no stopping him!
An interesting observation, someone might be able to shed some light on this for me. I assume pigeons see in colour, as when I tried him with sweetcorn, he reverted to dropping them. When I put both a pea and a sweetcorn in my hand or on the floor in front of him, he only ate the pea on each ocassion. To my mind there is no difference in size and texture, so apart from smell, why did he select the pea.
Unfortunately, no matter how hard he tried to eat seeds, he still dropped them. Hope perseverance will pay off in the end.

So good news for now,

Janet


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Janet,

It sounds good. If he can eat peas on his own he is well on the way to self feeding. I have noticed that woodies don't seem to like defrosted sweetcorn, though I continue to offer it. 

What seeds are you feeding him? They will test seeds in their beak and drop them if they don't like them. My woodies like maize and safflower. They also like very small seeds.

I am fairly certain that pigeons can see in colour. I think they were trained to recognise orange life jackets from a plane in sea rescue. Feral pigeons are also suspected of choosing their partners by their morph when in the wild. 

Cynthia


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

I'm so glad to read he is eating better. I definitely believe they see color. Our Mr. Humphries loves the Zupreem Fruit Blend for cockatiels which has red, green and yellow pellets. He always zeros in on the red ones and leaves the other colors.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

*Monkie's feeding*

Hi,

Interesting about the colour preferences, I had forgotten their war involvement.

I'm putting down a mixture of different size seeds, I thought that way he might find a size he could manage. The very small seeds, whch I also soak and put in the Exact, are a canary small bird seed. Mainly red white and yellow millet with oats. He does try them but still no success with swallowing. Then I've put some pigeon mix down. He mostly picks up the larger round brown seeds and a round light green seed. Again still no luck. I'll try and get some of the ones you mentioned tomorrow and give them a go. I suppose it's a matter if time and technique.

He's just downed his latest mix by syringe. He went at it with such gusto, he'd taken 35ml before I realised how much he'd taken, so I don't think he's got the motivation to try seeds for a while now!

I found some pomegranite seeds and dried juniper berries in Tescos today. I wondered if they would be ok to give him. I notice the Woodies in the garden going at fruit like berries, or is that a bit too much for a youngster's system?

He's better fed than my family!!!

Janet


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Janet,

If you see wild woodies eating anything then cut a little branch with the berries on and encourage him to recognise and eat it, he will need to do that in the wild.

I just gave all my pigeons some canary seed that canaryjayne had sent. They had never seen it before, but they all loved it, one of the wood pigeons came to eat it out of my hand. So it can't be the choice of seed that is stopping him.

I was advised not to give wood pigeons more than 30mls at a time, but Valiant would take 35...he would have probably gone for even more if I had let him.

I asked my friend what the wood pigeons in his garden were eating with such enjoyment and it is the beech nuts, they love them.

Cynthia


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Cynthia,

Thanks for the tip, the tree the Woodies strip in autumn has what looks like very small apples, I don't know what it is called, could be crab apples. I'll try some of those. There was a real crowd of them on the ground earlier, along with a couple of jays, magpies and squirrels, (very multi-cultural). They were under a row of oak trees pecking around at what ever had fallen to the ground. Might be the acorns as you suggested. I'll look out for a beech tree tomorrow in the park to see what the cones are like.

Seems like a good time for them out there at the moment, it's a shame Monkie isn't able to join them here while there's so many around. He'd probably get picked on though if he just went straight out. I saw an adult Woodie chase off a youngster who was in the garden this morning. Some seem very territorial.

Watching him in his cage in the garden again today, he tends to sits at the back of the box I put in there for shelter. I put him out there in the hope he will watch the birds pottering about, but I wonder if he even knows he's a pigeon. He's put in a smaller cage in the evening in a downstairs bathroom. Spends a lot of time looking at his reflection in the tiles. I have to watch him now if I let him out as he's trying hard to fly. Gets about four inches off the ground, but would hurt himself as he could into the bath or tiles, so I have to curb his enthusiasm.

I need some advice identifying a problem one of the pigeons has at the shelter, I'll put it on another thread.

Thanks as always

Janet


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