# pigeon with crossed over legs



## veracity (Nov 21, 2010)

Hi, I came across this while searching for help in raising a baby pigeon who has crossed over legs. I have had a look at the thread http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f47/help-with-baby-wood-pigeons-feet-45111.html and I did find it helpful, however, even after I taped my baby pigeons feet properly, she was unable to stand 

At the moment I have a sponge with two holes cut into it for her legs to prevent them from crossing over and I do take it off for a few hours each day but whether she's wearing it or not, she always places her legs in front of her so they stick out from below her chest. We've also rolled up a soft pillow case into an 'o' shape in which we place her for support - she seems more at ease when she's in it.

I've started giving her calcium supplements and was wondering if anyone knows anything else I can do to help her? She can't seem to be able to support herself on her legs and uses her wings to push herself up and drag herself to places if we place her outside the support.

I really really want her to get better but I've never done this before. Help would be much appreciated.

Thankyou


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Welcome, and thanks for helping the baby ! Can you tell us...do her feet 'grip' at all ? Does she move her toes and such ???


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## veracity (Nov 21, 2010)

Thankyou for such a quick response and the welcome 

She's fine when it comes to gripping - when I place my fingers under her feet she grips them quite tightly. When we first started looking after her she wasn't gripping but now she does. When she isnt gripping, her toes are a bit flaccid though

I've attached a few pictures as my description may not have been the best. Also, when I place her feet under her properly and place her on the ground, she seems quite happy but as soon as she moves herself, she can't get back into a proper position


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

veracity said:


> Thankyou for such a quick response and the welcome
> 
> She's fine when it comes to gripping - when I place my fingers under her feet she grips them quite tightly. When we first started looking after her she wasn't gripping but now she does. When she isnt gripping, her toes are a bit flaccid though
> 
> I've attached a few pictures as my description may not have been the best. Also, when I place her feet under her properly and place her on the ground, she seems quite happy but as soon as she moves herself, she can't get back into a proper position


From what I've read, this appears to be a condition known as Splay Foot. It happens because babies don't get to exercise their feet/legs in the nest, if there isn't enough of an uneven surface (nest bottom is too smooth). You are doing the right thing with the sponge brace. Hopefully this will correct the problem over time. Maybe one of the more experienced members on here can provide you with better advice and assistance.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

What a cutie !

It does look like Splay Leg. It is correctable with time. I have never dealt w/ it myself...but plenty of other folks here have...I assume they will chime in shortly. It is good news that there is some grip in the toes and that when you "stand" him/her up manually, she stays in that position if still....


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

They need to be corrected as soon as possible, or they will not be able to be fixed, and he will never be able to walk right. Do you think you would have better luck with taping them? The calcium should help. It's a beautiful little bird.


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## veracity (Nov 21, 2010)

thankyou so much everyone 



Jay3 said:


> They need to be corrected as soon as possible, or they will not be able to be fixed, and he will never be able to walk right. Do you think you would have better luck with taping them? The calcium should help. It's a beautiful little bird.


I was thinking about using tape as it would probably allow her to move her legs a bit more but I wasn't sure how to tape it properly - I attempted with adhesive plaster but I felt I wasnt doing it right and I didn't want to stress her out too much so I decided to go with the sponge brace. While searching for ways to treat splay legs I came across the fact that you could also use a soft pipe cleaner but that didn't work too well because it didn't stop her from crossing her legs over one another 

She has improved slightly from when we first started treating her, I was just curious to know whether I was doing it right or not because I've never actually done this before


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

That splayed leg is not too severe. You can use adhesive gauze as a form of tape, too. There is a speculation that a lack of nesting materials, poor calcium diet might help contribute to splayed leg.

Basically your goal is to realign the legs so that the bird will sit on it and not out--tucking it in so to speak. And you let the bird grows up to tighten up its leg as it matures.

Although it is not pigeon, this link might help as well:http://www.the-coop.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=47919


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The sponge is probably the best thing to use then. Do you have a pic of him with the brace on?


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## veracity (Nov 21, 2010)

thanks for the site RodSD, little birds feet are currently taped together - they aren't cossing over either yet which is good news  

unfortunately though she's still unable to stand and drags herself around which I'm hoping will be fixed over time with care. 



Jay3 said:


> The sponge is probably the best thing to use then. Do you have a pic of him with the brace on?


She's not wearing the sponge brace right now but I have attached a pic which shows how she pretty much looks/sits when she did have the brace on. the tape seems to be doing the same thing plus letting her move around more because the sponge brace was slightly bulkier.

I totally forgot to mention earlier that her faeces were green and runny but they've improved today - not as runny anymore...she's eating and drinking fine

thankyou so much everyone for all your help! I really appreciate it


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

You need to fit a sort of 'Bone' shaped piece of Sponge ( Taped into place ), or padded Cardboard ( likewise ), in order to have the Legs at the right spacing apart, for this to be where-ever it is they are presently too cose together - n this case, above the joint there.


Tape then, can be arranged also, as a seperate pulling 'in' device, tape placed over some thin padding, abd this can go on the part of the Legs which need to be brouht 'in'...

The two work in harmony then - the spacer, keeping the too close together parts, at a right distance apart, and, the Tape pulling in the too far apart parts, to maintain a position for the Legs, where the Legs are parallel, and, ideally, so they can flex normally for laying or sitting or even standing briefly.


Te youngster will tend to find this at least a little uncomfortable, and, will appreciate padded objects placed around them or next to them so they can sort of sit in a stable way, peck their Seeds, drink, and, raise up to poop.

These would be left on for a month or five weeks anyway...then, see how things are without them.


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## veracity (Nov 21, 2010)

thankyou! I'll definately try using the combination and see how that goes - she's not too keen to wear braces or anything haha but I guess its got to be done

she took a few 'steps' today  using her wings to support herself though but its a big improvement for her

her feet are always quite cold - I'm assuming thats due to poor circulation related to how little she uses her feet?

oh and sometimes when she's sitting by herself, she'll occasionally shake her head from side to side - is that something to be worried about?


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi veracity, 



Ohhhhhhh, sorry about all my typos and missing letters there in my last post.


Some Fledglings knocked over two cups of Coffee so far ( plus, one I knocked over ), and, two small Seeds Bowls of tiniest Seeds, into my accessory Keyboard...had to use a Hair Drier to dry it out so it would work again, and it still has lots of Seed rattling around in it which would not shake or bang out.


But anyway, padded taped-on spacers for compression to keep apart too close together areas of the Legs, to keep the Legs a right distence apart...and, tape or Taped padded spacers also, for pulling 'in' the parts of the Legs which are too far apart, so all is parallel and rightly spaced, and, ideally, so the Legs can flex for sitting-laying-standing.


Images of some fresh poops?



Phil
L v


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Veracity, I just finished dealing with a case of splay leg and while not quite as bad as your the little guy, mine did have his own problems. I used tape similar to what you are doing across the tarsometatarsus, but also across the tibiotarsus (the thigh) as well for extra support, so the legs did not flair out in the upper area. The way you have the tape there is too much slack in, the legs should be 1 1/2" apart at full extension of the tape, with coinciding similar spacing and support above. I would also use the foot glove on the feet, here is a post with a good photo of this, they are using sport bandage/vet wrap, but you could also you some soft, beathable, micro-pore tape to align his toes up nicely. http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=500247&postcount=11

I to help him feel comfortable and give the legs a chance to heal in the right way, I fashioned a nest for him using a deep bowl like in the photo below. I used a strip of foam sponge cut about 1 1/2" x 1 1/2" thick wrapped around the inside of the bowl so that his body was supported (you will have to play with this a bit to get the sizing right, use double sided tape, cut the edge that touches his body at a 45 degree angle to "cup" him better), but his legs hung down in the well/space below where if he wanted to put weight on them he still could, but his body, because of the sponge circle, held bulk of his weight while lying at rest (I covered this all in a soft, white terry cloth towel for comfort and to ease cleaning, I used a few pieces of double sided tape to help secure it to the sponge and bowl). I kept him like this for 2 weeks and when I took the hobbles off his legs were in perfect alignment, although he stumbled around a bit like a drunk for a week or so, while he built up strength and muscle in his legs.

A few other notes, the first is I tried to not use the bowl, but I just did not like the way he was laying and the positioning of his legs, plus I wanted to keep things easy between him and his parents, but I decided to opt for the bowl in the end, as I was worried he was not going to heal right without some good support. I placed him in the bowl back in the nest box and for a while the parents where a little nervous about the new addition (the bowl) before long they were in with him. As a result of the way the bowl positioned him I added one of the cobble stone pavers a I have for perches around the coop next to the bowel for better feeding position for him, but I still ended up supplementing him with some hand-feeding formula. 

Also, because this started when he was 10 days old, he was more or less quite happy just to sit in his bowl without too much fuss, he came out of it when he was 25 days old, I had to redo the sponge sizing twice to accommodate his growth over the two weeks. He was still in his nest box when he first came out of the hobbles, I have felt covering the bottom of my nest boxes and it would be best when yours first comes out of the hobbles to have something like this that will be non-slip and give him a good grip, as if is he is on a slippery surface for the first week or so when the support is taken off, the healing can be undone if he does the splits from slipping on a hard surface.

Karyn


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## veracity (Nov 21, 2010)

thats okay! I understood what you meant haha  gosh I never knew fledgling were so cute! I'm in love with the one we're taking care of, its actually the first baby our pigeons have had since we got them and its been over a year since we got pigeons. The other baby wasn't able to break through her egg sheel unfortunately 

So I placed two 'braces' on her - one at her thigh and the other lower down below the knee joints so she can still bend her legs - her legs are now parallel  

I've also placed her inside a bowl lined with foam to support her - couldn't find the 'perfect' one but I've tried to make the most of the one I have, she seems content

She's still eating and drinking fine but when she's left alone she fluffs up the feathers on her head where it meets her beak and well fluffs up in general - I always thought they did that when they were cold or unwell but she doesn't appear to be showing any other signs of illness. I'm really sorry for all the questions...I've tried google for answers but everyone on here seems to know much more and its more reliable. Thankyou all for your help


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

He's adorable, and you're doing a good job, but he really does need to be in a deeper bowl, so that he can put his legs down, straight. He shouldn't be on them constantly, where they have to bend underneath him. They can contract that way. A deeper bowl, with padding around to hold him comfortably, and something like a face cloth, or maybe that rubber shelving that comes on a roll, cut to fit the bottom of the bowl. or something underneath, for him to grab with his feet. Can you do that?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Sounds like we are making some progress, glad you got the legs parallel, this is important, also please do spread her feet out into the proper position \|/ and tape them in position this way with vet wrap/micro pore tape, as this is also very important, have a look again at the link I posted before on doing this by Feefo.

She looks much more comfortable in her bowl, but as mentioned, you really need to get her a much deeper bowl and spend some time with foam, two sided tape and terry towel and make more proper "nest". Also the kind of bowl I posted a photo of will allow you to place seed and water dishes right up to the edge so she can easily reach them.

Karyn


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## veracity (Nov 21, 2010)

I went out and bought her a deeper bowl today and transferred the foam from the first bowl into the new one then made some adjustments. That was probably the hardest part - I couldnt get the foam to support her properly but I think I've finally managed  I had her feet taped as well from earlier

The only issue is that she has a very large tail and it seems to be squished slightly - she doesn't seem to mind it for the time being, I'm just hoping it wont be a problem later.

Thanks for all your suggestions and help!


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi veracity, 



Any place which does Upolstry Work will have various weights of scrap Foam Rubber laying around.


Legs wise, I have used carefully formed Cardboard, padded on the ends, for spreading or retaining the Leg spacing, and, this also works well and is less bulky than the foam is anyway.

Just cut like a half inch wide strip from any corrugated Cardboard Box, use as is or double it up...make an inside radius or roubnded notch on each end, pad that with some folded Paper Towel or Cotton Ball material, and, tape on...

One above, one below...

It might take several tries to get it right, as for size and shape of the spacer, and, as for how it is or they are placed.

Usually takes me several tries anyway to get it right.



She looks darling in her comfort-Bowl..!


So sweet...


Good luck!



Phil
Las Vegas


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Do you think you could post up a photo of her in her new bowl, so we can see how she is positioned, as it may be possible that we could suggest something to accommodate her tail better. Make sure you lift and check her legs and feet each day for good circulation, that both are nice and pink with blood flow.

Karyn


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## veracity (Nov 21, 2010)

I rearranged the foam inside the bowl around and her tail is okay now - realised the way I had it first time around wasn't as best as it could have been. She's started eating more as well  so happy

her left leg is looking great! It's in perfect position but her right leg is still like before - she's still wearing the braces. My brother was saying that the way her right leg was hanging down it could be a dislocation? :S but she's able to move it when she wants to so its not like it hangs down all limp

Overall she seems to be making a great recovery in the bowl. Thanx so much for all your help!


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Just make sure the lower and upper hobble/braces are about 1 1/2" apart and even and not too tight so they don't impede circulation. Lift her up a few times a day to check things and you can exercise her a bit but supporting each side of her body and raise her up and down on her legs so they get some weight put on them. Make sure at her hip area in the bowl there is good support for her so they don't spread out, don't forget to tape her feet open in a proper position with the micro-pore tape as well. She may need to stay like this for 2-3 weeks to give time for her body to re-model her legs into a more proper position, you have to be patient and continue to support her making she she is well feed and hydrated.

Karyn


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## veracity (Nov 21, 2010)

I can't emphasise how much everyone on here has helped me and our baby pigeon

I wanted to let you all know that she took her first steps a few days ago!!  She more or less shuffles around but its such a HUGE improvement from when we first took her into our care

Thankyou everyone  hopefully with a little more time and care she'll be walking around in no time


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Excellent news indeed!! Veracity, yes, as mentioned before, their first steps will be kind of like a drunk until they start to build up strength and tone in their muscles. Be careful not to end treatment too soon, as all the good that has been done can go away, if things are not quite ready for her to be out of her hobbles. Please post photos when you get a chance.

Good going.

Karyn


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

That's a great update. Can you post pictures of the baby?


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## veracity (Nov 21, 2010)

yea we're not planning on stopping her treatment anytime soon

I've attached a few pics - just a note, we dont let her walk on the floorboards as they're pretty slippery - I just placed her on them for a few minutes while taking the pictures


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Wow... what a big difference... she is looking very good.... legs nicely under her, thanks for the photos. Take your time... don't rush things... no slippery surfaces (as you mention), and I think things are going to work out well for her. Keep checking on how her feet are doing, to do this put a little baby oil on the tape on her feet, rub in, and leave on for 5 minutes, this will soften the glue on the tape making it easier to remove (you will need to wash feet with a little Dawn dish soap and warm water before re-taping), let her walk for a while with no tape and hold her in your hands and make her grasp your finger to perch with her feet, try to do this every day over the next week (or as often as you can) and if the toes are in good position and she is grasping and walking well and toes remain in proper alignment, you can stop taping the feet.

Good job,

Karyn


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

She's a very pretty little bird. You're doing a great job.


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