# First Combine race



## Barn Pigeon (Feb 11, 2005)

Today is the first Combine race of the YB season. LOVEBIRDS AND ROXTAR it looks like the birds are going to work today. Good Luck and will see you on the race sheet.  
Rick


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## roxtar (Aug 21, 2006)

Barn Pigeon said:


> Today is the first Combine race of the YB season. LOVEBIRDS AND ROXTAR it looks like the birds are going to work today. Good Luck and will see you on the race sheet.
> Rick


Thanks for the good wishes. I'm happy that it's nice and cool this morning but I can do without the wind.
My birds in the first race have been on the wing for about an hour and a half by now, which means they should be in Tallahassee in about 15 minutes  . I need that sort of irreverent pessimism to keep me upbeat.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Hey, good luck today guys.........hope your birds are RIGHT AFTER mine!!  
It's 10:00 so I figure the Charlotte boys should be getting birds about now.......


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## roxtar (Aug 21, 2006)

Almost 7pm and........ nothing - not a single bird . So totally worth it.


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## Barn Pigeon (Feb 11, 2005)

Bad Day. THAT WIND DID A NUMBER ON EVERYONE  Most of our club members had only about 1/3 returns per loft. I got 7 out 20 so far. it will be rough on the new members with only a few birds. Hope we get a few back in the morning.


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## roxtar (Aug 21, 2006)

Barn Pigeon said:


> Bad Day. THAT WIND DID A NUMBER ON EVERYONE  Most of our club members had only about 1/3 returns per loft. I got 7 out 20 so far. it will be rough on the new members with only a few birds. Hope we get a few back in the morning.


 I'm just not a glutton for this kind of punishment. Too much time and money involved just to lose almost my whole team on the first race, definitely not worth it.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

There was a combination of things that went wrong here.............FIRST combine race............too much wind I'm told.............many of these birds were with other birds for the very first time. It was never windy here, but apparently the wind was blowing pretty good south of us. We've gotten 2 birds back today so far. Total of 10 out of 17 shipped. I still believe some more will come in.


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## roxtar (Aug 21, 2006)

Lovebirds said:


> There was a combination of things that went wrong here.............FIRST combine race............too much wind I'm told.............many of these birds were with other birds for the very first time. It was never windy here, but apparently the wind was blowing pretty good south of us. We've gotten 2 birds back today so far. Total of 10 out of 17 shipped. I still believe some more will come in.


Meh, half my team is half my team whether it be from wind, or bad training, a hunter or hawk. Either way..... A lot of work and money just to not have birds come home.

I understand what you're saying, I'm just discouraged that's all. I don't think I'm ready to give up... yet.


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## A_Smith (Aug 8, 2006)

I was in a special race on Saturday ,from Buena Vista VA flying NE to eastern PA. 85 birds liberated only 24 made it home within 10 hrs. I'm still waiting for my 3 in the race. Don't give up. Today in my loft was a bird that went missing on my first combine race Aug 25th. That was 4 weeks ago.


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## Barn Pigeon (Feb 11, 2005)

Roxtar
I was 18 when I first started racing pigeons. It took about 2 seasons before I even won a 4th place diploma. But to me it was as good as a first place win. It said you are doing something right now.  Just listen to them older flyers and here is what a # 1 flyer told me once. Make sure your birds are healthy. Sick birds can fly. Not saying that your birds are sick , because if that was the case then so are mine. Mother nature just kicked butt on them Sunday. 
I just went and picked up a bird that few on Sunday. It gave everything it had. It was captured by a person only .10 of an air mile from home north of me. It just couldn't go anymore. Now I understand why we don't see those missing birds. When they fly their self to little of nothing and go down they just fall prey to what ever. Dog,cat, and mr. Hawk.  Just hang in there .


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

We really appreciate it when owners and club contacts really get into fast contact with finders of these lost birds. I've "met" a lot of nice finders through the 911 alert, and I can tell you that they are so pleased when they hear quickly from owners. They are also very disappointed when a club contact doesn't get back in touch with them because then they start to worry that the bird is not wanted.


I certainly hope all your missing birds get home safely.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

To all our racing members and even those who aren't members...

I am sending positive thoughts for all your birds who dare the air! May they come home quickly and safely!!

Meanwhile, eyes to the skies...watching, waiting, hoping...

With love

Shi
& Squeaks, who is also sending his best...


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

*Roxtar*

Hey man,

If it is any consolation, the guys down here have been experiencing a lot of losses this season too. It's the toughest thing about this sport. You bust your butt to raise a team only to see them disappear over the course of a season. Some years are like that I guess.

The best try to keep it in perspective and move forward from there. You had some good success on the first race it seems. Maybe try to see what was different about the way you prepared the birds this week compared to last. There are so many variables in this game. Sometimes even the best prepared birds have a particullarly tough day. I hope things turn around for you. Don't get too discouraged and just keep moving forward.  

Good Luck,

Dan


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## roxtar (Aug 21, 2006)

learning said:


> Maybe try to see what was different about the way you prepared the birds this week compared to last.


I didn't do anything "different". 3 of the birds that I sent were the first 3 that came home for me in the first race. A guy in our club only shipped 4 birds to this race and told me and the other first year flyer that we were crazy for sending all those birds to this race. I guess I should have listened to him, but I had confidence in the birds that I sent and there's no doubt in my mind that had the wind not been as bad as it was that those birds would've made it home no problem. Like I said, I just got a little discouraged that's all.


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## LuisO (Nov 14, 2005)

Hey Everyone,

I'm sorry about the losses. They seem great this year. A flyer friend of mine said that in Europe they had something similar last year? On our first race for this season I had trained the birds REALLY good it seemed. I would shoot them out 60 miles and then another 20 or 30 the same day. Flying them toward dusk and early mornings, All the time so that they didn't get on a routine. ALL MY BIRDS during the training came home, the first race, well 10 never made it. They came in little by little, up to two weeks later, Thanks God for sending my 205 back! The only thing my partner of 70 years of flying told me was, "Whats done is done, the birds in that loft now will help found and improve your family, work on them, the hard part is over." Every race since, well these birds have been hitting the landing board pretty good and have been comming home from training tosses in better time than usual. 

I personally think we did a few things wrong. One of the biggest I believe was BUYING young birds from elsewhere and putting them to train in our loft. 4 birds, one the first day out after being trap trained and settled just fluttered off into the sky on the very first day out. So I corrected that problem. WE WONT be buying any YBS to fly next year, WE BOUGHT THEIR PARENTS! LOL

My prayers are with every bird. It just kills me to see a bird flying in the sky and wonder if its going home, looking for home, or just lost.

Luis


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

A person can train there birds and only hope for the best. But needs to remember also,there will be lost birds. Now 10% are your better birds raised each year The other 80% are not Of that 80% 55 to 60% may very well be lost over all 40 % may make it through a race season not being lost But 30% is a better average.


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## sevenznuf (Dec 7, 2006)

*first combine race*

hey i just looked at our first combine results from the north carolina combine and i cant beleive i was 17 in the first race. i race in the mount airy club (MAC) and it looks like our club did real well. I lost 7 birds out of 24 (both races together). We've got some real competitors that has helped me out alot this year which is mt first year. We all had some losses too.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

LuisO;226873....... said:


> I personally think we did a few things wrong. One of the biggest I believe was BUYING young birds from elsewhere and putting them to train in our loft. 4 birds, one the first day out after being trap trained and settled just fluttered off into the sky on the very first day out.....
> 
> 
> Luis


Dear Luis,


It's just my personal opinion, but it could just be that any mistake in this regard, was not the fact that you purchased YB's from outside your loft....but that the birds you purchased were simply of poor quality.

The reason I make such an observation is that all One Loft Races are 100% stocked with YB's from "Somewhere Else".... ....if your theory were true, then most if not all of these birds would be lost off the landing board also.......


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Just love when Warren stirs up the pot. 

I also think you know sucess when you no longer have to purchase youngbirds to try new blood on your team. When fanciers are willing to trade blood, ie Koopman and Sangers, do you know you are sucessful. 

Also a question for Warren. Have you found any lofts with your test kits where your birds were out performed by the local birds. I would think there may be a few, soley because of the courses flown and some of the established families that fly the courses. I would be interested to see what the next generation of the crosses bring. I think this is where you might find the best results. Such as the old timers bringing in Janssen birds to speed up their old lines. I think the quality of your birds would bring some vitality to winning established lines. I have yet to find local birds that out class my birds. When I do this is what I will bring in to cross with mine. 

If I was racing locally, I would love to bring in some Art Hees birds, Smith birds, and so on to test against mine. Chances are the crosses would be the payoff. Still looking for that 1,2,4,7,9 on the race sheet. I am winning races, but want a bit more consistency. Just a thought.

As for that 17 place bird. Keep him breed him and try and purchase 1-16 on the race sheet. Always breed up. 


Randy


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## Guest (Sep 22, 2007)

well not to stir any pots here but I did see that 4 of warrens birds were already lost down at the flamigo one loft race place along with plenty others so far this year  upon reading further this was without even being raced yet ? wat do you think the causes might be even before getting to the race sheets  just a curious mind here


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

LokotaLoft said:


> well not to stir any pots here but I did see that 4 of warrens birds were already lost down at the flamigo one loft race place along with plenty others so far this year  upon reading further this was without even being raced yet ? wat do you think the causes might be even before getting to the race sheets  just a curious mind here...



Good Question !

This is the most recent communication which is posted on the Flamingo International Challenge web site.

On Tuesday 9/18 we tossed the birds 1 mile. We 
release them only a few baskets at a time. The first group
was hit by the hawk and scattered. John moved the birds 
about a mile down the road and let up the second group.
When he let up the final group a flock of about 400 trainers 
came by and picked them up. Tuesday evening we were still
out about 80 birds. We got about 30 more home yesterday.


And just like everyone else this year, some birds get sick, get caught or otherwise chased off by hawks, hit wires, or just simply fly the coop. 

There is another thread elsewhere which also talks about all the losses that fanciers have experienced all across the USA during the training phase. Three of our local club members went belly up and lost so many birds they could not fly the first race.

In a race such as the Flamingo, training losses of any type are to be expected even though unwelcome, since you are out the $100 perch fee, and the costs of shipping. When it really hurts is *after* you have paid the additional $300 "activation" fee, which in this case means your entire $400 "Investment" is now gone, along with the birds. 

The other often unmentioned point of such a race, is everyone knows when you did well, and in case they don't, full page ads in the Racing Pigeon Digest are purchased to remind folks... ...But if you do poorly....everyone knows that also, and you can always count on your club members and others to remind you....less you get to high and mighty.....


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

hillfamilyloft said:


> Just love when Warren stirs up the pot......
> 
> 
> Also a question for Warren. Have you found any lofts with your test kits where your birds were out performed by the local birds. I would think there may be a few, soley because of the courses flown and some of the established families that fly the courses.......
> ...


Hello Randy,

I always wanted to be a chef of sorts...so maybe that is why I like to stir up the pot a little...now and then....... 

What I have found is SFL USA banded birds, which have been placed into a variety of lofts around the country, have made a very favorable impression on those who handle and see them. It is also a very relative situation, it will depend for obvious reasons, on what kind of birds the fancier is working with. 

Also keep in mind, if the fancier acquired 8 YB's and then raises 80 or more birds himself, it would be unrealistic to think that every one of those 8 will be better then every other bird raised in the loft of a well established and serious competitor. There have been enough reports to show we are on the right path, and making good progress.

When Mark Bustin from Hawaii reported a 1st place win over 117 miles of open ocean, I concluded that the idea of "Horses For The Courses" is in my mind a myth. I believe that a great bird will win over any course. And I am currently satisfied that we have the right bloodlines to do the job, but there is much more to be done before we become a household name.

It also points out the reality that we are still very much working with a numbers game. *Most* birds bred by any loft in the country.....even the very distinguished Internationally known names....are going to turn out on race day as pretty much average. Regardless of the prices charged, or what the beautiful color display ads on the covers of the various magazines may say. The dirty little truth of the matter is, *most * will be fairly typical, pretty pedigree or not.

What the real masters of this sport have figured out, like my friend Ludo, is that with the right selection, over time....a family can be developed which can increase that percentage of really good pigeons. How else could one explain why someone like Ludo has accomblished what some would say, is the "Impossible" ? 

I am starting to write a book here, but have you seen the lastest article about the World Grand Master Ludo Claessen on the PIPA site ? Simply UNBELIVEABLE !! http://www.pipa.be/


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

I did read that article. There are many similarities in Ludo and such competitors as Sangers. They both have small colonies of great birds. Sangers bought the best birds he know of and has developed through selection high quality stock. Piet Valk is another name that comes to mind. Small backyard lofts with quality birds. This is what I am trying to do with my birds. Just like Warren says, better your odds of good birds. I attribute following these type of methods for my successes. Start with quality birds and select by the basket. Breed to the best families of birds and select again. I raised 74 young birds. 45 of which are being directly tested in futurities or entire race seasons. I am keeping the other 30 to train out and test locally. Only birds that have bred winners have a nest box for next season. I will then stock the best fliers to raise young birds. This process will occur every year. I have heard Warren and others say to replace good birds with better birds. 

After three seasons of breeding I now have peas in a pod. I have confidence that each and every youngbird has the opportunity to win through lineage. I will only introduce bird that I truely feel are better than mine. That beat them in the races they fly in. I will cross in the blood and test the offspring. 

I do not think that Warren's methods are all that much different than mine. The more you read about the greats, the better chances you have to succeed. 

Randy


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

hillfamilyloft said:


> I did read that article. There are many similarities in Ludo and such competitors as Sangers. They both have small colonies of great birds. Sangers bought the best birds he know of and has developed through selection high quality stock. Piet Valk is another name that comes to mind. Small backyard lofts with quality birds. This is what I am trying to do with my birds. Just like Warren says, better your odds of good birds. I attribute following these type of methods for my successes. Start with quality birds and select by the basket. Breed to the best families of birds and select again. I raised 74 young birds. 45 of which are being directly tested in futurities or entire race seasons. I am keeping the other 30 to train out and test locally. Only birds that have bred winners have a nest box for next season. I will then stock the best fliers to raise young birds. This process will occur every year. I have heard Warren and others say to replace good birds with better birds.
> 
> After three seasons of breeding I now have peas in a pod. I have confidence that each and every youngbird has the opportunity to win through lineage. I will only introduce bird that I truely feel are better than mine. That beat them in the races they fly in. I will cross in the blood and test the offspring.
> 
> ...


Randy,

If you follow through, in time people will be talking about the great* Hill Family Loft* of birds, if they are not already !  

In my opinion, you are on the right track !


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Well Warren the guys in Alaska are calling me a sucker right now. What a sad race. I need to vent right now if that is OK. The race was supposed to be a two race series of 150 and 230. First race was to pay 5 places second to pay 10. The weather was bad last weekend and the race was scratched. Training started with about 75 birds and ended up with 19 going to the race. I had 2 of 3 left. They refunded all the lost bird monies so they only had $1400 prize money. Without informing my partner and me they decided to combine the races and pay 5 places clock order. This was fine for the 7 that made the decision for all 15 or so with birds in the race. The others I do not think were informed. Here is where it gets good.

The race was flown from 160 miles. 7 Birds came in of the first drop. My 1319 was you guessed it 6th to clock. Needless to say the race was $100 a bird and when I expressed my dissapointment they informed me that I would have only won $50 if they were to pay 10 places. Those who lost birds prior to the race won $100. They got their entry back.

I realize that it is hard to run a futurity race and the guys are not bad guys. But when you loose that many birds and go to one race with 19 birds, scratch the whole thing and race for pride. 

The kicker is that they auction off the birds with all monies going to the club. This is the only thing that I knew going in to the race. So I do not even get the bird back. 

Trailbound, if you are listening bid on the bird you will like the Janssen bloodline and I will even send you a pedigree. These birds win.

Wish me luck next week in the Idaho race and the Western States Colorado race. My luck being that I have won two of the four Western States Races outright and they are only paying average speed, I will be a place out of the money. 

Thanks for listening

Randy


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

HI RANDY, You had birds in a race up in ALASKA? From the looks of it seems like it was a big scam,while there many honest races there are many the are big ripe offs.I used to get a few races every year but have long sinces given that up I only put birds in 0ne race now thats Roger Mortvedt's race I can go up to his place check on my birds any time I like. He lives about 90 miles north of me. Most of the people that have birds in this race are local there have been some big names that have had birds in this race most have not done well and use the excuse not enough money in the race ( just another cop out). He gets about 250 to 300birds for the race, and ships around 180 to 230 to the race and gets good returnes.Any way give some thought to putting a few birds in this race you will get a fair shake from Roger. .GEORGE


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

hillfamilyloft said:


> Well Warren the guys in Alaska are calling me a sucker right now. What a sad race. I need to vent right now if that is OK. The race was supposed to be a two race series of 150 and 230. First race was to pay 5 places second to pay 10. The weather was bad last weekend and the race was scratched. Training started with about 75 birds and ended up with 19 going to the race. I had 2 of 3 left. They refunded all the lost bird monies so they only had $1400 prize money. Without informing my partner and me they decided to combine the races and pay 5 places clock order. This was fine for the 7 that made the decision for all 15 or so with birds in the race. The others I do not think were informed. Here is where it gets good.
> 
> The race was flown from 160 miles. 7 Birds came in of the first drop. My 1319 was you guessed it 6th to clock. Needless to say the race was $100 a bird and when I expressed my dissapointment they informed me that I would have only won $50 if they were to pay 10 places. Those who lost birds prior to the race won $100. They got their entry back.
> 
> ...


Randy,

Sorry for the delay, been off line for a few day as hardware upgrades were made.

There are any number of One Loft type races that should be avoided because of a lack of good management and in some cases, a lack of professionalism. Add this one that you mentioned to your list.  

Been trying to be politically correct, but there are some that are simply inviting goverment intervention. Some have just simply proven themselves as very suspect. 

Save up your money and avoid these fly by night outfits and fly instead with a first class operation. I can't say anymore less I invite all kinds of hatemail, but One Loft Races are not regulated, and there are a number of poor excuses of a One Loft Race popping up.  

Been fooled a couple of times myself....but only once. Walk away...and next time, don't be taken in by "cheap" out of the way, never heard of before races. Look for three years of operating history....use due diligence.

Some day, when I am rich and famous, and can afford bodyguards I will publish a tell all list of scammers. But, I have a wife and family here at home, and I don't want Tony Soprano types busting up my knee caps.....


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Randy,
> 
> Sorry for the delay, been off line for a few day as hardware upgrades were made.
> 
> ...



Gee, Warren, with your winning pigeon reputation growing and being a character in a BOOK, I would say you are well on your way to being "famous!" (Not sure about the "rich" part...)  

Shi

YEEEHAAW


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Well even know I am not happy with the race, my partner assures me that the guys are on the up and up. He has flown in the past in their gold rush race and won money. I use him as my judge on whether the races are ok. Just dissapointing to be in any sport where winning is not enough. They could have saved us all allot of headaches and put the birds on the landing board and gave the cash it the first one in. Hell with the 150 miles. I am getting more and more fond of the average speed races or three race series. True test of the birds. Fly a youngbird a few races and 1000 miles and see which bird is really best. 

Randy


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