# Hawk attack!!!



## andinla

The feral flock at the school yard, was attacked this morning. One was decapited next to the daycare I work at, the other was attacked in the middle of the huge field at the school. The poor pigeon it was one of our favorites. He looked like a dalmation. The stupid hawk ate everything but his head. I went out there and picked up all the feathers (not easy). I felt so bad for them as they stayed up on the phone wires all day in fear to come down and eat.  

Does anyone have any ideas on what I should do? Where or how I could feed them in a safer place.. The only thing I can come up with is if I try to get them to eat in the dug out where it is covered by wire and then they couldn't be attacked from above. What are the odds of them going into a area like that?? I used to feed them in the fenced area at our daycare with a big shady tree that protected them from the hawks. They also had a huge bathtub and drinking water and were fed twice a day. Now, I feel like I am the cause of their fear and their death by feeding them out in the field. As some of you may have read in a earlier post of mine, the school district sent out a memo to all of us saying that we were no longer able to feed the pigeons or give them water. Noted it was a parent complained about them, which later I found out it was a co-worker who came to our site for the summer to work. 

Is there any hawk deterents out there anywhere. I hate to say this but sometimes I feel like shooting these predator. I hate the way they kill it is so sick. (I know they must eat to but I still hate them,) I never thought I could kill anything but I think I actually could and wouldn't feel bad. (not good I know). 

I hope people in this town of mine are not releasing them here. I hope they are just passing through on their way some where.


Any suggestions would be appreciated......

Thanks 
Andi


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## feralpigeon

Hi Andi,

Had much the same problem here in northern Cal lately. It is apparently migratory season. I've stopped putting in concentrated areas as a result. The co-worker prob will probably go away if the bird flu scare also diminishes. You just don't want the pijies to be in a concentrated area, or any birds you feed right now. Sporadic, spread around in smaller spread out areas. The hawks can navigate their way down from the top of a tree to the trunk w/apparent ease.
Just bide your time and don't give the hawks anything to feel as tho it would be a good spot to take up residence in. I understand that sometimes, if they nest and lay eggs, they may hold up for a while in a given area anyway. Not much to do except not make a target area out of where and how you feed. Think about it and I'm sure you'll get the "feel" of it. The neighborhood birds will need your help soon enuf as winter sets in.

fp


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## Symbro

yes the hawks are on the move... i have had a hawk hit my birds every time i let them out. (i personally raise pigeons not feed ferals) i have kept them inside to wait till the hawks have moved on. however you do not have this luxury. the good/bad news is that a health smart pigeon will not be caught by a hawk. the bad news is that a hungry hawk will keep trying until it gets dinner.

usually the hawks will not attack when there is alot of human activity. the hawk i have at my place knows very well that if i am out i will throw a stick or something to scare it away. i have bought a mirror ball that i will be puting up in january. it reflects the image back to the hawk... they are very territorial and will usually stay away from the area. but this ball cost me about 55$ (Jedds.com) and would have to be installed somewhere high near where you feed the birds.

otherwise i would feed the pigeons as far away from trees where the hawk could hide and ambush the birds on the ground. it wont take long for the whole flock to understand if you start feeding them in a new place. they are very smart and adaptable.

Symbro


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## andinla

*Another pigeon taken today*

My co-worker saw as she was driving down the street to work in the big field at the school a flock of pigeons, and crows flying in a panic and then she spotted the hawk with the pigeon in its claws carrying him away... I hate hawks !!!!! I have been thinking of that poor pigeon all day and hurts knowing it didn't die right away and the fear it must of had. 


HAWKS ARE DEVIL BIRDS IF THERE IS SUCH A THING!


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## feralpigeon

HI andinla,

I saw, up close and personal the effects of the raptor program in SF. Although painful to lose one's favorites in a flock, I considered "my" pijies to be fortunate that they new what their situation was. So frequently, when municipalities authorize Avitrol, these poor pigeons don't know what hit them until it is too late. I know it sounds cruel, but I would rather see them just part of the eco system than fall victim to Avitrol profiteering. Hopefully, things will change when the hawk migration has passed.

Best,

fp


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## andinla

*I know there is a spirit world*

and I too have had many experiences , some to out of the norm to talk about. I am not a religious person although I do believe there is a higher power. (God) I don't believe a loving god would create a loving innocent being or animal and have it eaten alive do to our sins. I'm sorry that doesn't make sense. I don't like any creature that kills its prey especially plucking ever little feather to get to the meat while it's still alive. That is not the God I know. I thought I would never not have love for any animal but I can honestly say that if I were able I could actually shoot a hawk if I saw it attacking a pigeon or anything else. And I know I wouldn't feel bad.. when it comes to the innocent my claws come out. But as it stands I am a city girl with out a gun and the law says I can't harm them. There you have it....I just do what I can to help the little innocent pigeons one at a time.


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## Symbro

there is nothing i hate more than religous discussions. but i believe "agent smith" said it perfectly in Matrix. However, that is all i will say since this is a pigeon forum and not faith forum.  

Symbro


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## andinla

*I Agree*

PEACE & PIGEONS & PEOPLE 

ANDI    



PEACE ON EARTH

Aren't humans amazing animals? They kill wildlife by the millions, in order to protect their domestic animals and their feed. Then humans kill Millions of more animals and eats them.

This in turn kills humans by the Millions, because eating all those animals leads to degenerative and fatal heart conditions such as heart disease, and cancer. Humans then torture, and kill Billons of more animals to look for cures for these diseases.

Elsewhere in the world, millions of humans are dying from hunger and malnutrition because the food they could of eaten is being used to fatten their domestic animals.

Meanwhile, once a year, people send out cards praying for "Peace on Earth".


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## Yo Pauly

Andi, do some research on hawks. There has to be something they dislike--a scent, a color, etc.


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## Maggie-NC

Hello Andi - that is some philosophy particularly when you just posted you could kill a hawk and feel no remorse.

No one could love pigeons more than I do but I also like hawks and other birds of prey. They are doing what is natural for them. We don't let our pigeons out of the aviary but I see the results of hawk activity from time to time in our yard. It makes me really sad to see a little pile of dove feathers and know that a hawk probably ate the dove. But, dogs and cats probably kill more birds than hawks. Do you want to kill them too?

Maggie


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## Skyeking

andinla said:


> I am not a religious person although I do believe there is a higher power. (God) I don't believe a loving god would create a loving innocent being or animal and have it eaten alive do to our sins. I'm sorry that doesn't make sense. I don't like any creature that kills its prey especially plucking ever little feather to get to the meat while it's still alive. That is not the God I know. .


Andinla,

I'm sorry you had to witness these hawk attacks. I don't appreciate them going after my birds either. 

Hawks do have their place in the food chain, they have to eat and raise their babies (unfortunately pigeons are their favorite meal). I don't like them going after my birds, and I keep them inside during hawk season. They have to co-exist with every other of Gods' creatures. I do believe however, that their population has increased tremendously, and there are far more then there should be.

However, I don't think pigeons feel any pain once the hawk has them, as they go into "shock". I know from experience as one of my birds got caught in flight, and we managed to get her away from the hawk. She was like a zomby for hours, we put her thru the basic stabilization steps, but it still took about 6 hours for her to become aware of her surroundings again.

Aslo, if possible, it is best to establish a feeding time in the early morning hours, when predators are not around, if you are the sole supplier of seed.


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## andinla

*I didn't say I wanted to go out and just kill a hawk*

because I dislike them, but in a situation of any animal (birds) being ripped apart while still fully alive, and if I was in a country setting, then maybe I would intervene and not feel bad. As far as cats and dogs killing other animals or birds. My cats are indoor outdoor cats and have been around pigeons for years and never once have they even tried to get them, infact they let them eat out of their food bowls. The times which they have caught a sparrow, etc which has been a few years now, I have gotten them away from them and they were able to fly away a day or two after I took care of them and they had rested. I also put jingle bells on their break away collars to alert the wild birds. As far as my dog(s) My Golden Retriever never killed a single animal, infact he would mother them and protect them (even birds). My husky I don't give her a chance to to even think about killing something. 

Yes hawks are pretty, but I still don't like them. And for some reason there seem to be to many in the small town where I live lately. As far as killing things to eat I personally don't eat meat and have disliked it since childhood. 

Thanks Treesa for the advice the hawks have been getting the pigeons around 7:00 AM so I guess at day break would be the best time to feed them. How did you get your pigeon away from a hawk? just curious.......

Andi


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## Pigeonpal2002

andinla said:


> I thought I would never not have love for any animal but I can honestly say that if I were able I could actually shoot a hawk if I saw it attacking a pigeon or anything else. And I know I wouldn't feel bad..


Hi Andinla, 

You did in fact say that you could and would shoot a hawk. Please be reminded that this forum does not condone the hurting or killing of any animals including hawks. Any personal "problems" or issues you have with hawks and what you would do, should be kept to yourself.


Thanks,


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## Skyeking

andinla said:


> Thanks Treesa for the advice the hawks have been getting the pigeons around 7:00 AM so I guess at day break would be the best time to feed them. How did you get your pigeon away from a hawk? just curious.......
> 
> Andi


Hawks can't carry a pigeon very far, as they are too big and heavy, so they usually bring them down when they catch them during flight. The hawk brought her down in the vacant field next door within our view, so we scrambled out into the woods, soon as we saw it, and found the hawk underneath a bush starting to pull her feathers out. The hawk flew away as soon as my husband walked up to the bird. She seemed dead, but was in shock, he brought her home, and we put her on heat in a small carrier in subdued light. She lost her eye, as it was damaged from hitting the sharp little branches of the bush, when he brought her down. She is fine now, except for being blind in the one eye. She doesn't go outside anymore.


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## BrianNAmy

*It could have been worse...*

Predators at least have to hunt for their prey based on their physical abilities. If they aren't fit, they won't catch much. If they don't catch much, they die. And hawks and falcons are built for one purpose... I'd rather see a pigeon go out by one of these natural enemies than by flying into a window, getting hit by a car, etc.

Unfortunately, people don't have to be physically fit enough to catch a pigeon in order to kill it. Unlike hawks (that kill the slowest, weakest of the flock, allowing the healthy ones to survive and reproduce, strenthening the species in the long run) bullets don't kill based on the health or speed of their target. One person with a gun can be 1000 times more devastating to a flock of any bird for generations after they've killed the birds, than a predator could ever be.

Hawks don't kill for sport or to be evil... there's only one species that does that. Considering the shock, the damage I know talons can do, the length of time it could take a bird to bleed to death and the fact that in order to be caught by the hawk, his health probably wasn't up to par, you can take some comfort in knowing he didn't feel very much for very long after the hawk caught him. 

Nature isn't as cruel as it looks and neither is God. If you look at a pigeon it's obvious they're not made for much else in the ecosystem other than food for the predators. Pigeons go into a trance when they're in danger of dying. It's as if their bodies tell them they're about to die so they shut themslves off to everything. That's one of nature's little tricks I suppose and it's their defense against an agonizing death. It's not exactly like the scene you'd picture out of Jabberwocky.


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## andinla

*One Last Time Re: Hawks*

if I were able I could actually shoot a hawk" If I were able to?? which I am not able to, So I'm not.....(gonna harm a hawk) venting Brad venting!!! I have read much worse than if I were able to, here on these forms.

As for a hawk taking the weakest, youngest, sickest... that is not true... I am sorry I witness almost daily...

The last three he took out of the ferals I feed were big, healthly and full of life. There is a female pigeon in the flock with no foot that wobbles over to the food and is one of the original pigeons from four + years back. And another one with string around both feet and a hurt wing, I am still trying to catch her for 2 weeks now. So saying it weeds out the sick, old etc is so not true.

The very last one he took Friday was a huge male and was so proud when he danced for the ladies. I am tired of picking up after his meals, feathers, heads, if you want to call it nature so be it. I call it wicked. 

You stated "If you look at a pigeon it's obvious they're not made for much else in the ecosystem other than food for the predators." Whatever you want to believe great....

You see I have looked at the pigeon, everyday for the past four or five years. And it was so obvious to me that they are domesticated birds passed down in time and tossed aside by man after they were done using them for their needs. And humans were made for the ecosystem? that's it I rest my case ( I still dont like hawks!!) Have a wonderful day! Plant a tree and save our planet please.....................

Peace, Pigeons & People 


PEACE , PIGEONS, & PEOPLE

ANDI


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## Pigeonpal2002

Hi Andi, 

That's fine then, that you don't like hawks and you are entitled to that. I don't like cats particularly myself. A feral cat killed all but one of my 6 homing pigeons when I was just 10 years old. I woke up on my birthday (of all days) to find one of my hens eaten and her two squabs half eaten. Can you imagine how I felt being just a kid? Can you imagine how devastated I was over the loss and how angry I was at that cat? I wanted to kill that cat for what it did but it was just doing what comes natural to it. Being a feral cat it had more of a reason and was undoubtedly hungry. It seemed to kill everything it could and eat what it could but there were too many bodies for it to consume. 

Animals aren't "wicked" or "evil"...they follow their own instincts given to them in nature. You say your cat won't harm a feather on a bird's head, this could very well be true, but many cats (both domestic & feral) kill, mame and eat hundreds of thousands of birds yearly. Sometimes a cat will kill a bird or small animal for no real sake. Cats are one of the very few animals on the planet (other than humans) that will kill needlessly. Hawks do not kill more than they can eat at least. Nor do they mame their prey and "play" with it while it dies as some cats will do.

To this day, I still don't really feel a closeness or fondness towards a cat. I've never owned one and won't ever. I know people with lovely cats, one that I found lost and abandoned when I was 17 working at a gas station. I took this cat into the store, it was a lovely, friendly adolescent cat really. I ended up giving him to a friend of mine who still has him today.


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## Symbro

can i hate and kill cockroaches?
can i smash spiders? expecially black widows?
can i kill the ants coming into my house?
can i kill a mice that eat my grain?
can i spray my crops so the food can go to the market?
can i kill the bear who repeatedly attacked campers?
can i kill the great whites till i find the ONE that bit a few surfers?
can i kill pigeon flies who only want to feed on my birds?

can i build my house where all types of animals once lived and thrived?
can i pave a road throught the country where dear cross?
can i drain the swamp to build a school?

where do we draw the line? who draws the line? no body on this thread is perfect. i know i sure as heck am not. and i can say that EVERY time i see an animal attack something that i see as good, that i want to stop and even harm the attacker.

i once saw a dog grab a squirel who was just eating his nuts.
i once saw a preymantis eating a lady bug
i once saw a blue jay eat a preymantis (maybe even the same one)
i once saw a cat eat a cute black and white mouse.
i once saved a fly from a spider's web.

everytime i see something like this i want to physically *stop* the attacker and would like to see them never do it again! Of course this is not how life works. but i am human and have empanthy for other living things. we try to protect the weak from the strong.

Pigeons are my pets... my babies... my family. so to see something i care about attacked by anything makes me incrediablly mad. all i see is someone is harming my family.

Symbro


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## andinla

*Well Said & So Now*

I Let It Be............Amen & Good Night !

PEACE, PIGEONS & PEOPLE


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## ZigZagMarquis

I decided to just post this here rather then start a new thread over it...

 

I had my first hawk experience today. I let my fliers out just before 0700 and as I've spoken of before, they usually don't fly for much more then 15 to 30 minutes... so, when after about 20 minutes, I saw them returning, I just figured things were normal. Two of them trapped in... Baldy and BoyBird and the rest were on the roof. I looked again a few minutes later and there were none to be seen. I decided to go out and see if they were "roof sitting"... bad birds... but got a surprise. There was a cooper's hawk sitting on my roof. Well, needless to say that didn't make me happy. I went over to where the hawk was perched and it took off. I stayed outside for a while and walked around a bit hoping to see my birds and hoping not to find one dead. After awhile, I saw my guys overhead, but they were way way up high and not coming anywhere near the loft. I went around to the other side of the house and there was the hawk again, this time perched on a telephone pole. Well, I walked around underneath him a bit and I guess he didn't like that too mcuh and he took off, but it was a long while before my birds came back... an hour and a half or so... and even then, not all of them returned. I figured I had lost one, maybe two, but I guess I got lucky because after about another 45 mintues to an hour more, the last two appeared and trapped in. The cooper's sure was pretty, but I'm glad he didn't get any of my birds.


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## Pigeonpal2002

Hi Zig, 

Phew!!! Close call for your guys...so glad nobody was hurt and all came home safe and sound. Sounds like you've got some smart pigeons in your group who know how to avoid a hawk.

You may want to keep your birds in for a few days in case this hawk is lurking around and now that he knows where your birds are. Try to not be routine so hopefully this hawk will move on to other areas.


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## andinla

*I am so glad your birds*

made it back, it's not a pretty site watching a hawk grab and kill a pigeon. I have managed twice now in the past year to literally inches of the hawk with pigeon in his claw managed to get him to drop his dinner. I never realized how big a redtail hawk was until it was smack in front of me. Pretty they are, but don't care for them when it comes to their dining habits. I live in southern Calif near the beach lately we have coopers, redtails, We had two great horned owls nesting behind our house for months, they left a month ago. we also have some other small hawk that looks like a pigeon when flying they are fast and come out of no where. 

Strange how I never saw squirrels, raccons, hawks living here as a kid, and now they are everywhere.

Andi


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## Symbro

it is hawk migration season... might keep your birds safe until they all move on


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## Yo Pauly

Once a baby sparrow fell from the branch of a tree and landed on a concrete sidewalk in NYC. The tree was located in a cemetery and the branch from which the sparrow fell was actually hanging over the side wall of the cemetery. There was a lot of people traffic on this particular sidewalk, and I thought it would be best to pick up the tiny bird and return it inside the cemetery, hoping that perhaps its mother would find it. Well, as soon as I snatched up the sparrow from the sidewalk to take it inside the cemetery, I had a feeling something was wrong with the bird. And, I was right. When I opened my hand to check on the baby bird, I found that it had died from shock. It was a costly lesson for me. No more grabbing birds, especially young ones.


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## Victor

*Good idea to have security in mind...*

I posted in early Summer that my pigeon Tooter was outdoors flying about and I was in the front part of my house when I caught a glimpse of this very large winged creature, something I had never seen like before. It was scary, as I knew that my pigeon was out and about. When I ran, and ran I did, by the time I reached the back yard, I looked up once again and this big thing spiraling down  .When I made it to his "hang out" area near the back kitchen door, he was already inside his outdoor cage. I looked up, and the mystery visitor was gone...just vanished. 

Since then, if I leave his roosting place, he is secured in his cage, or he goes with me to the other side of the yard cage and all. I am not taking any chances loosing him that way.


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## tms1950

*Hawks!!*

I`m a federal wildlife rehabilitator,specializing in migratory songbirds. No one knows better than I about the problem with hawks and their predatory nature.
It is always upsetting to me to raise a small hatchling songbird,teach it to eat it`s natural foods,weather-proof it, house it in the aviary to get good at flight, then back-up feed it for a couple of weeks till it can forage on it`s own after it`s released and then find the remnants of it`s feathers on the ground where a hawk had taken it. Raising these babies takes a good six to eight weeks and all I can do is hope that the majority make it without being attacked by predators before they are mature. We have 4 or 5 different types of hawks that make regular "visits" here and all I can do is run them off. I have even had to chase them off the roof of my outside aviary. They are bold and one even tried to attack a baby crow that was at my feet. They don`t seem to fear humans much. I have heard about putting a gazing ball on a pole to try to deter them,but the cost of those are prohibitive to me since I receive no funding other than small donations. I have started putting seed feeders,suet cakes & mealworm feeders in the densest part of my bushes outside. This way, the little guys can feed without being directly in the open. The hawks have tried getting into the bushes after them, but at least the small birds have a warning that a hawk is after them and can elude them better.
Pigeons & mourning doves are ground feeders,so I keep their food also near bushes.The smaller birds send off warning cries when they see a predator and the pigeons stop feeding & take off. However,the hawks here seem to prefer taking the small birds before they`ll take a pigeon or dove.
I`ve also learned that when I do release birds, to release them in no smaller groups than two or three. That way, they help each other(if they were raised together). When one becomes alarmed,the others do an automatic "heads up". I learned the hard way this last spring,releasing a single dove that had been hand-raised, that if he hasn`t been incorporated into a group(even though mourning doves are solitary,they do roost together),he didn`t have much of a chance on his own. This is one of the reasons why I tell people that call me about "abandoned baby birds" to wait & see if there are parents coming around every now & then. After these babies are fledged,they stay with their parents most of the summer,learning about predators,safe food sites,etc. I obviously can`t take the place of the parents in that role.
Another thing to keep in mind with hawks is that they don`t just prey on other birds. We have a 7# terrier that we never allow outside without us being with him. A large hawk could also take him, as well as any other mammal under 10#.
I do want to assure people that birds do have a "shock" state that they go into when they are caught. I`ve seen this many times when we used to allow our cat outside and had to take birds from her. I`ve learned that just because the bird appears dead,it may not be. This is also true of chipmunks.They can revive after a little time,and if they aren`t injured,will take off again.My hope is that the ones that are caught and go into this state don`t feel anything if they are eaten. It is disheartening for me to see these things happen to the little ones I`ve raised for so long, but since I do over a hundred birds a year,I just have to hope that the majority are strong enough to make it out there. Nature is beautiful,but it is not kind.

Now,on another note: I have a problem with placing pigeons,doves & other small birds that have a quality of life,but due to broken wings, can`t be released. I have sent some of the smaller birds to educational centers, but nobody wants the pigeons or doves. I have just a small facility here and can`t house them on a permanent basis. Does anyone know of a suitable adoption placement in Michigan? Unlike some of the rehabbers I`ve talked to,I won`t euthanize them if they have a quality of life and are not in pain. If there are good,adoptable homes out there that want them,Please e-mail me at [email protected]. I don`t often have time to look at all the bird forums on the internet. Thanks, Teresa


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## Maggie-NC

Teresa, welcome to our forum.  I hope you will become a regular because we can certainly use your knowlege in helping not only pigeons but other birds as well. We have a separate forum on other birds. It always helps to have fresh input into the various ways each of us help birds.

The hawk problem seems to be worse this year but I don't know that anyone has a solution other than to keep their pigeons inside until the migration is over. Your suggestion about feeding under bushes is good; at least the wild birds are not out in the open.

Thank you for not euthanizing the non releasable birds. I hope you'll have success in finding homes for them in Michigan.

Maggie


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## andinla

*Thank you Teresa*

for the info. What a great service you provide for the little guys. I haven't seen a hawk attack for two days now, I hope they keep travelling up north away from here. I hope you come back now and then on pigeon.com thanks for posting here. 


Take care,

Andi


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## Maggie-NC

Continuing the hawk-talk. We had put a recuperating dove in our small aviary for a few hours of fresh air and sun. Looked outside and there was a small hawk trying to get in the door. My husband went out there to run him off and the hawk went to the side of the aviary and actually got trapped between the wire of the aviary and a screen that was covered in plastic that was leaning against the aviary. He was absolutely frantic to find his way out which was so easy - he just had to go out either end. He was really flapping against the aviary but did figure out how to get out. Fortunately, the little dove was just scared. He was sitting on the ground quiet as a mouse. Of course we brought him in then.
At least that hawk had his "moment" of anxiety and stress,but was not injured.

Maggie


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## tms1950

*thanks for the welcome!*

I`ll be glad to share any knowledge I have and am happy to see so many others feel the same as I do about the feral pigeons & doves. To me, they have just as much value as any songbird ( or the raptors,as most rehabbers prefer those). Their gentle,peaceful nature appeals to me as much as listening to the songbirds.
Maggie- you said something about another forum here for birds. Are they the exotics or wild birds? Teresa


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## TAWhatley

tms1950 said:


> Maggie- you said something about another forum here for birds. Are they the exotics or wild birds? Teresa


Hi Teresa .. not Maggie here but another Teresa who goes by Terry ..

When you first sign in to Pigeon-Talk you should be seeing a list of all the various forums. There is an Other Birds Forum which contains the following sections:

Bird Emergencies
Pet Bird Discussions
Bird Watching
Endangered Species
Story and Picture Sharing
Birds For Sale or Adoption

Other Birds is for any bird other than a pigeon or dove.

Terry


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## tms1950

Thanks,Terry,I`ll check it out.


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