# How can I help heal this type of injury?



## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

Sorry that the quality of these pictures is not great. I have just found this bird on my porch, he seemed a little weak and I was able to catch him with my hands. His feet are black and swollen, but I have examined them and I cannot see any string or similar. He has either managed to get the string off or this is a different type of injury. He also has an injury on his wing, it is like a big stone stuck in his wing. I wet it a little so you can see it better. It feels like a giant scab is embedded in his wing. He appears to be able to fly but he his not feeling well, otherwise I would not have been able to catch him. Can anyone recognise what's wrong. The feet have obviously taken time to go that black, and the same with the wing, that injury would not have formed over night. I am not sure what to do other than feed him and maybe apply Dermisol cream to the wing and hope it is able to lift the scab away from the wing? Anyone able to help?

Thank you,
Brian.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Poor bird. It's lucky is with you.

One toe is black and it will fall with time, the middle toe looks in the pic that only one one side( upperside) of the joing is black as if it was swollen , infected and scraped. I do not think this toe will fall. You can apply Neem oil on this joint and hopefully the dry skin will fall of and give a nice shape of the skin.
That stone on the wing could be it's bone or a growth from it. Be careful and inspect it closer on how its attached? Is the stone on the wing bone or along the feathers?


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

the lump on the wing is quite solid and unmovable, so I think it could be attached to the bone. Its black, which is odd. I am wondering if it could be the result of an injury that has tried to repair itself without help. 
The bird is also underweight so I will try and feed her up and give her the probiotic and vitamin water that I give to the others.
All the injuries are a bit odd, and I wonder if they are related, ie the bird had some kind of accident where he hurt his wing and feet and has been struggling on without any help. The injuries have tried to repair by themselves not very well. I cannot think how that could have happened to the feet, I have only seen feet go black like that when twine or string has been caught around the toes?
I will have a look for some neem oil. I hope it is not too expensive, as I have a limited budget!


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Neem oil in Canada is aroudn $10-$15 a bottle.
Is the wing broke? Can he fly?


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

Yes the wing appears to be usable, and it does not look infected. S/he is standing on a hot water bottle wrapped in a cloth and is trying to sleep. It is late here in London and she is following her normal sleep rhythm. I will put the lights out soon.
I will have a look for some neem oil tomorrow. I will see how s/he looks in the morning, if s/he feeds herself then I will leave her to do that, otherwise I will make up some Critical Care Formula and see if she will take that. She seems weak, so I hope she will start eating in the morning.

Thank you Dima,
Brian.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Brian, i showed your pic to my BF. I asked him if it's possible to be a stone. He said it could be if someone threw it with a slingshot. If it's a dry bone, you can file it. If it's a stone you could try to remove it, if it's in the bone and not in the flesh (if in the muscle/flesh it could bleed). Did you try to soak it with warm water? May be it stays attached because of dry bood.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Definitely...this is the kind of injury that needs a rehabber or vet that is experienced with wounds. The pigeon must be in pain and a rehabber of vet could provide pain medication.
The pictures are so close, to the injury, that I can't tell what is what.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

As I have mentioned in previous posts about sick birds, I have real trouble with finding vets who are prepared to treat pigeons in London, in fact they plain refuse stating that they do not want to encourage me. The only vets I can go to are some distance and Cost me money to get to, which is in short supply.

There is some good news, the two black toes seem to have fallen off over night without bleeding. There just seems to be a dry open end to the toes. I will have a closer look later but she is mixing in well at the moment and I want her to find her feet with the others so there is no bullying. I will soak the wing later to see if I can loosen whatever is on the wing. It is right at the extremity of he wing but I am pretty sure it is attached to the wing. She will fly but is reluctant to fly far. She is eating which is good because I did not see her eat when she first saw the food which worried me. I have done my usual thing of spraying with permethrin and giving her a Harkers 3-in-1. The water that is out has probiotics and vitamins in so I hope she will start to look a bit better over the next few days. She keeps running a hiding in boxes because "Baby" is chasing her, but I am telling him to leave her alone so hopefully he will. She seems fairly comfortable with me, she lets me get quite close to have a look without having to catch her.

I am having a bit of a problem with fleas, I have woken up this morning covered in a line of bites all over the side of my arm and chest. The Ivermectin oil does not seem to work well with fleas, so I may have to use Permethrin spray. I need to get a new one.

Should I treat the tip of the toes where the black bit has fallen of? it looks dry.

Thanks,
Brian.

P.s. Although I am unlikely to get any Metacam from a vet for the time being, I do have Tramadol, which is used by vets as an animal opiate pain killer. I know how to mix up a solution for birds, so if you think she is in pain I can give her some Tramadol?


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

BHenderson said:


> As I have mentioned in previous posts about sick birds, I have real trouble with finding vets who are prepared to treat pigeons in London, in fact they plain refuse stating that they do not want to encourage me. The only vets I can go to are some distance and Cost me money to get to, which is in short supply.
> 
> There is some good news, the two black toes seem to have fallen off over night without bleeding. There just seems to be a dry open end to the toes. I will have a closer look later *but she is mixing in well at the moment and I want her to find her feet with the others so there is no bullying*. I will soak the wing later to see if I can loosen whatever is on the wing. It is right at the extremity of he wing but I am pretty sure it is attached to the wing. She will fly but is reluctant to fly far. She is eating which is good because I did not see her eat when she first saw the food which worried me. I have done my usual thing of spraying with permethrin and giving her a Harkers 3-in-1. The water that is out has probiotics and vitamins in so I hope she will start to look a bit better over the next few days. *She keeps running a hiding in boxes because "Baby" is chasing her, but I am telling him to leave her alone so hopefully he will.* She seems fairly comfortable with me, she lets me get quite close to have a look without having to catch her.
> 
> ...


Brian, as has been mentioned before, new birds should be quarantined from others, not just to avoid bullying, but also to avoid passing on any possible underlying illness to existing birds.
Even though they only look injured, they could be harbouring other things we do not at first see.
By not doing this, you are not only continually risking your current birds to exposure of incoming illness, but also threatening any existing treatment by possibly weakening their immune system more.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Separate her from the others, new birds should be kept away at least 4 weeks. It will be lonley for her , but it's safe as Quazar mentioned. 

Pesonally i don't think she needs any painkiller. Her toes were dry and fell. The pain was there when she had them tied or injured and inflamated.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

The thing is I would like to do things properly but I just do not have the facilities for the speed that different birds are moving through here. In the past week I Have had three birds through here, and I could not have kept them all separate.

In reality I should not be doing this job. I am ill myself, I have very little money, and I have a single bedsit to do this all from. I would rather that there was a proper place for these sick and injured pigeons, but it appears that I am the only one who gives a damn about them and I am taking a lot of flack for doing it.
This rough and ready service is the best I can do for now. I have plans to try and improve things in the future, because the pigeons in London are suffering because of the policies of local government, but for now this is it. I have tried to build some temporary cages, but they are too small. I have one travel cage, but I cannot put a pigeon in there for long, they can hardly turn around.

The new bird is doing fine, there was some squabbling at bedtime but they all worked out where they were going to sleep. I was pleased to see the new bird stand her ground, it made me feel she cannot be that ill if she can fight. I am here almost all the time so I do not allow them to fight badly. I let them display and maybe a bit of pushing and shoving, but I break it up if they start ganging up on one or if they are biting each other. I usually find they fit in within a couple of days or I make them up a box close to me so they are protected.

Thanks for the advice,
Brian.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Brian, you are doing a good job. And you are helping the pigeons in needs because this is the right thing to do and you are a very caring person.

Please accept my deepest apologies..we try to do it by the book (with keeping newcomers separated).

Taking into account the circumstances, i see that you are doing your best.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

No problem, I know you all mean well. I like helping these pigeons. Now I have become aware of them I see that a lot of them are suffering unnecessary hardship and people are blind to their suffering. Doing the little I can at least helps those who seem the worst, and are suffering the most.

As a side note, I have started to think about moving out of London. I do not like the attitude of people here to the suffering around them, and I cannot go on watching the suffering myself because I am being stopped from doing anything about it by the council. If I cannot help the pigeons, then I must move away otherwise watching their suffering will destroy me.

Brian.

P.s. the people I do know who help pigeon from the outskirts of London or deeper countryside seem to get much better support from surrounding vets and other people. Its is so sad to walk down the street in London and see how the birds are struggling for food and looking thin.

P.p.s. the pigeons have had a hard time this summer for some reason, they have not been able to fatten up for the winter. This winter is going to be terrible, I am going to have to watch a lot of these pigeons die. I have a cheap source of food and I will start buying a 20kg bag a week in the winter and spread some down the local church green, but I sometimes wonder if I will be making things worse or better because all I will be managing to do is allow some birds to last a little bit longer. I cannot possibly supply enough for all the thin birds when they have had such a bad summer. This is the councils fault, there are 'do not feed the pigeons' signs going up everywhere. I do not understand why people want to get rid of the little wildlife we have in this concrete jungle. People have such a distorted view of how the world should be.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

BHenderson said:


> The thing is I would like to do things properly but I just do not have the facilities for the speed that different birds are moving through here. In the past week I Have had three birds through here, and I could not have kept them all separate.


Brian, I understand your predicament, (I too have limited space & resources) and appreciate what you do for the birds & wasnt meaning any disrespect to you.
The thing is, all it takes is one bird to pass something on to the others & then you will have even bigger problems.
Appart from the wire "release cage" I made from cake racks which I mentioned before in another post, I also bought a couple of these








Not exactly Ideal, but good for emergency, easy to wash out after use, and they fold flat when not needed.
You can get them at most tesco or asda for around £2 each.
Mines didnt have any lids, but I use them standing on their sides with a piece of cardboard so the bird has a flat surface to stand on and front covered with some old net curtain just taped in place.
They are also stackable & can be stacked side on as long as the side panels are properly clipped in place.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

Brian,

For temporary cages, I have used plastic laundry baskets (either upright with a towel over them, or upside-down. Newspapers for flooring. I have also put rescues in the bathtub as emergency cage (shower curtains kept them from escaping. Turning the bathroom lights out helped me catch them several time Both are easy to clean.

I had a one-room apartment (plus very small one-person-standing-room-only kitchen and small bathroom) when I had to resort to this.

I now have to keep any rescues outside on the small back open porch, even in winter, since some other house residents see pigeons only in terms of food, and don't want ANY nonhuman animals in the house. 

Larry


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

Quazar, I did try to look for your last suggestion, I checked shops in all 4 of the shopping areas within reach, putney,hammersmith,chiswick and west kensignton. It seems they are not sold round here for some reason. There are some other shops I can look for or I might try to find them online, but I have to feel well enough to travel reasonable distance. If the government would stop interfering with my money I could continue my treatment quickly and get my strength back, but things are getting difficult in the UK for people on sickness benefits.

I like the crate idea, I will have a look, but from memory I cannot recall ever seeing anything like that. Maybe I need to travel to the really big shops where they probably stock these things. I will have a look around anyway.

I like Larry's idea of using a washing basket(I already do use the bath if I have a very sick bird and I want to give them peace and quiet). washing baskets are the sort of thing I might find in the pound shops of maybe the 3 pound plus shops, but it seems like something I would find there. I will have a look as soon as.

In mitigation, I do tend to get birds from the same group. There are a certain number that hang around on the estate, and they generally are the ones I find hiding in my porch if they are in trouble, so they are all in the same group anyway. I do, however, understand the need for isolation and I will do my best to arrange something.

The people who are close to me generally support me, my brother is in the process of trying to take the carpet up and paint the floor with tough floor paint so it is all easier to clean. I have a special nylon carpet which is resistant to the mess from the birds, but it will be easier if I can just mop the place down daily.

I wanted to set up a small area in my garden porch by covering the exit with some fencing(which I had already brought!). this would have allowed the birds to go outside to sit in the sun occasionally and when we need to clear the room. I could also have set up two area's to keep some birds separate from the rest with the extra space I would have had in the garden. This plan was stepped on by my solicitor who thought the council would use it to try to shut me down, so I felt I could not take the risk. Its ridiculous how much harassment I am getting because I want to help some suffering animals, anyone would think I was doing something evil?

Thank you for the suggestions, I will try again to set something up. It will take some time though as I have to wait for my next payment. In the meantime things are looking up with the sick birds I have taken in recently, they all look like they are doing well.

Brian.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

It would have to be one of the larger Tesco's, The Express or Metro ones mainly only cover food. Or you could get them from Tesco-online


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Brian, just a tip for the floor to get easy for cleaning poop and not to get damaged too easy, you can put epoxy (birds are not allowed untill it dried a few days- fumes are dangerous) or you can paint the floor any color and then wax it. You can buy vinyl sheets which are easy to wash, wet cloths or sponge, and you can remove it when you feel like.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

Interesting idea Dima, I'll talk it over with my brother who is more knowledgeable on these things and see what he thinks will work the best. It will definitely be better than nylon carpet, which although resistant, does start to show signs of not being totally clean after a while.


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## Whitedove06 (Jul 7, 2009)

Brian- Keep up the good work. Your love for pigeons really shows! Good luck from 'across the pond'!


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

Thanks for the support. I am really pleased that I have this site to come to, otherwise I would have no one to talk to about the various problems that come up. 

Greetings from this side of the pond lol


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