# Pigeon loses control while flying, faints, falls :(



## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

I had my pigeons out to fly today since most of the hawks have migrated and one of my Pakistani High flyers was just a speck in the sky. But a few moments later i saw an object falling down. It was him. He just plumeted to the ground in spirals. I ran towards the area where i thought he'd fall but i was a good 10-15 feet off. (Had to jump a few fences, slowed me down). When i got there where he fell he was laying on his side. Luckily he fell on my neighbor's compost (they Recently cut their grass so it was a bit soft) He was just laying there and then he closed his eyes. I thought he was dead and got all emotional. Losing 2 pigeons in 3 days gap for unknown reasons is really ticking me off. But he was alive, i took him inside my empty loft (Birds were flying) and just lay him there, i felt him breathing so i put a little water down his beak. A few minutes later he was up on his feet again. Like what is this? Pigeon falls from sky, now weak, one of my best, and gets up a few minutes later. I'd glad he survived but all these mysterious incidents are really pissing me off. Like if there's something wrong with them why can't i see it? I haven't lost pigeons in the last 2 years, other than hawk incidents. So this is really hitting me. Does he have low calcium or vitamins? That he has no energy or something? Also no sign of hawk attack or anything, can anyone shed some light on this? I asked my mentor, Professional Roller Breeder, pigeons are pigeons, but he said he hasn't ever heard of this in his over 30 years of experience. Right now all my birds are grounded until i find out whats going on. No sign of disease. Even though i'm supposed to be breeding them now (I breed year long, but in turns. So 1 pair has 2 batches of chicks every 4 months. Something i think is good. And i'm behind schedule in everything. I'm just worried that my studs might have something wrong with em, since some of their offspring have showed difficulties in the past but 90% of them were good. Anyways i'll keep you guys posted. :\


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## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

Also another problem i noticed...2 of my youngsters....pure white pakistani high flyers, brothers/sisters were born about a month and a half ago. One of them has been flying for some time now. The other one flies but falls...and then he i think left wing starts drooping...it's like he pops his shoulder or dislocates it or something every time. I pick him up move his wing around and it goes back to normal, but every time it flies it starts drooping, I'll post pictures tomorrow. These guys mean a lot to me since they are the third generation of birds who were imported from India. (I have the other 2 generations too, about 20 birds, and these two are the first 2 in the third generation.)


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Gurbir,




Dunno...


But...putting Water into the Beak of any stunned, swooning, semi-conscious, semi-delerious Bird, is a very dangerous move...which can easily kill them, going into their Trachea.


You could try looking into the Throat of the one who fell...but, you need to do so when he has just failed in that way...see what color everything is in there...see what is Tracheal opening is like...see what these look like at-rest also...


Might be anaemia...where, he runs out of diffused-assimilated Oxygen after a certain amount of exertion...micoplasmas...something effecting his red-count or oxygenation...low-grade-respiriatory infection...



Phil
l v


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## Grimaldy (Feb 25, 2007)

What is the elevation above sea level of Abbotsford?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Grimaldy said:


> What is the elevation above sea level of Abbotsford?


It's 190 feet


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Fainting*

Something I found:


http://georgiafarmwoman.blogspot.com/2008/08/tale-of-hawk-fainting-chickens-and-eggs.html

(Emphasis in *bold* mine).



> Tale of a Hawk, Fainting Chickens, and Eggs
> 
> Life is never dull here on the farm. You remember I said we had to put the chickens back in the pen because several of them have disappeared? Farm Man and I thought it was the two coyotes we had saw earlier in the week but when we went out late one evening this week we saw this hawk hanging on the chicken wire on the pen.
> 
> ...


http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definition/fainting



> Definitions: FAINTING
> FAINTING
> 
> Noun
> ...





> Specialty Definition: Fainting
> (From *Wikipedia*, the free Encyclopedia)
> 
> Fainting is a momentary loss of consciousness. The first symptoms a person will feel before fainting are dizziness and feeling hot. Moments later, the person's vision turns black and he or she will drop to the floor (or slump if seated in a chair). Recommended treatment is to allow the person to lie on the ground with his or her legs a little elevated. As the dizziness and the momentary blindness passes, the person may experience visual disturbances in the form of small bright dots. These will also pass within a few minutes.
> ...


I've known some women in Germany to faint because they drank diuretics (such as coffee, tea) and not enough water, while wearing heavy sweaters in Winter. Waiting until you feel thirsty is not the best idea; by then you are already dehydrated. 

One woman I know fainted while driving home after work one winter evening, and wrecked her car. She worked in a warm dry office, and had only her usual few cups of tea during the day.

My wife fainted once while getting out of a bathtub full of hot water. She gently slumped to the floor, on the bath mat. The hot water caused the small blood vessels and capillaries below the surface of the skin to dilate, relax, lowering her overall blood pressure, less oxygenated blood flow to the brain. She revived after a minute or so. 

Submerging the face in very cold water causes the brain to shut down peripheral blood circulation and concentrate it in the vital organs (brain) and body core. People who have been submerged for some time in very cold water have been revived.

Larry


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## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

Oh i see....well thanks guys....we live in a valley (Fraser valley, so mountains surround us on all 4 sides. Dry air in high elevation? Anyways he's fine now, just a bit dazed....running into walls and stuff, but i'm sure he'll be good by tomorrow. I have a few new birds coming in next Friday so i need to start building an another loft....one problems solved another one springs up :\


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Drooping wings, huh? Sounds like the exertion was extra hard on him and he tuckered out in flight. Could be something like a Paratyphoid infection that has colonized the heart and/or lungs. Do you vaccinate?

Pidgey


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Can columbids have seizures ????

I dunno...I might be inclined to take him to a vet, get some bloodwork, culture, etc....

Sorry that is all happening to you, Gurbir...it must be making you horribly worried.

On the other hand...it is good to hear he's alive and seems to be stabilizing.


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## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

To tell you the truth i have never needed to vaccinate. For the last 6 years, since i've had pigeons only about 2 of my pigeons have died from being egg bound. And a few youngsters died since they had crippled feet. But disease has never been a problem in my lofts. *Knocks on wood* although i'll take this guy to a vet in a few days. His/her sibling is doing great though. And yeah all this stuff suddenly has been real hard...and with the cold northern winters its even worse...Canada -.- lol.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I'm sorry to hear about your birds unusual behavior, whether it is disease or the breed remains to be seen, but I'm glad the bird seems okay.

You really should have them examined, as there could well be an underlying cause/disease, which is surfacing due to stress and other issues.

Symptoms of crippling feet may have an underlying cause/disease, as well as one youngster surviving and the other dying in a clutch.

You really should start vaccinating for paratyphoid, and PMV.


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## corvid (Oct 16, 2008)

Gurbir vaccination idea is really good one, as you will eliminate some of the problems before they will happen. PMV is really nasty one for birds to go through and some of them dont even go through, they die.And this virus is every were. Same goes for paratyphoid. Is good to know , you did not have any problems of the above, but avoiding the problems if you can is always better , then dealing with the disease, specially, when you have so many birds. I would be scared not to do it. Pigeons do get seizures.
Since you live in Canada and have relatively close climate to ours (Oregon) i was just wondering , how do you keep your seed for birds and for how long and how long is kept in the store you buying from.(mycotoxin).Do you have problem with moldy (white to brown color) surface in your loft? Anywhere there moldy straw, corn or any other wet organic material (Aspergillus) I dunno , this is kind of shooting in black..

For sure your PJ has some health issue, and one already did die, so start looking around to eliminate, what you think, could be potential problem.Walk in aviaries are pain in ..,
as you dont think about it , but as you walk in , you do bring "stuff" from any area you went before on your shoes...
Hope , the PJ will be doing better , then just going into the walls and stuff..  Keep us posted

Nell


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## Guest (Oct 30, 2008)

to me it sounds like you got something running thru your flock there , you might want to run them thru a course of baytril just to be on the safe side .. hope they pull thru for you thou


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## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

My seeds are kept in a bag, (the one they came in) which is put into a bucket thigny, which is then covered. Ummm there's no dampness. Actually just cleaned every corner of the loft yesterday and had 3-4 bucket loads of sawdust put into the small loft and 6-7 in the big one. Winter's here are harsh and i have the heater going on already. My birds are grounded from flying free until march. Too dangerous, not good weather and all. And i got 5 babies...all 4-5 days old. Last for this year until i find out whats going on. Ok now here's some cold truth. I have had pigeons for 7 years now (15 years old now) and have never ever vaccinated, never needed too. I used a home remedy (Ground tumeric and canola oil mixed together to make a paste and putting them on wounds of pigeons when they got attacked by hawks...it really works) and thats it. I don't have a clue what so ever where to start with vaccination. I put in vitamins in their water and thats all i have ever done if it goes to medication. Oh and advil for colds, which also works. So if someone can guide me into the necessary medications i need, and where to get them i'd really appreciate that.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

If you have any openings in your loft larger then 1/2 inch you could have rodents/rats running around eating left overs or roaches inside, they will leave droppings that can infect your birds with paratyphoid. IF they have a food source and a warm place to winter they will not leave on their own and can cause devistation to your birds.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

this link you can scroll down and they have answers to alot of questions and then a catalog to shop for products and vaccines...take a look at all the products that can help your pigeons...but like before you have to find a way to keep vermin out of your loft and if you can't do that you will always have some problems....http://www.siegelpigeons.com/asked.html


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

spirit wings said:


> this link you can scroll down and they have answers to alot of questions and then a catalog to shop for products and vaccines...take a look at all the products that can help your pigeons...but like before you have to find a way to keep vermin out of your loft and if you can't do that you will always have some problems....http://www.siegelpigeons.com/asked.html


http://shop.highpointpigeonsupplies.com/main.sc


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Might be time for stronger meds*

A droopy wing is often a sign of paratyphoid as they get lesions at the wing or leg joint. The result is sort of like an arthritic condition. Coccidiosis and Paratyphoid cause loose stools which dehydrate the birds. This could create a weakness under stress such as flying. These things can also cause problems in the oviduct with hens and possible egg laying problems. The number one cause of egg binding is still a lack of proper grit.

I've had to use 4 in 1 from Foy's this summer, for two treatments as I was losing youngsters. I brought some new birds in for the first time in many years and don't know if it came with them or not. The birds that I bought were all supposed to have been PMV vaccinated and wormed. I have never vaccinated any birds myself and have never seen PMV that I am aware of.

I first treated the breeding flock and younsgters for 6 days or whatever was recommended for Coccidiosis and things did improve. After a month or so, I began having youngsters going light again and having loose stools. I put them through the 4 in 1 again and this time treated for 14 days which is recommended for Paratyphoid. I haven't lost a youngster since. Whether my problems came from new birds or a terribly wet summer or a combination of things, I have no idea but this was the worst breeding season I've ever had in nearly 50 years of keeping pigeons.

One of the birds that was fairly new, was beginning to nest with his mate and one day, he was unable to fly. He just hopped and acted otherwise normal, eating and paying attention to his mate. This occurred while I was treating the whole group with 4 in 1. I continued treatment and left him with the flock as he seemed fine except that he was unable to fly. This lasted about a week with gradual improvement. He is now fine. I don't really have an explanation for what happened to him.

Just some observations of mine and my own experiences with a tough year, hope it may help with yours. I began the breeding season by treating the entire flock with Albon, a sulpha drug. Apparently, it didn't work for my birds this year. I have read that you should rotate these meds over the years as they will lose their effectiveness. I had used Albon before but it had been quite a few years.

Bill


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## corvid (Oct 16, 2008)

Gurbir i cant help on the vaccinations, as we dont do them for a wild birds, so some other member will come along with unswear as far as this goes. I just though about your PJ, which did fall to the ground..could you just spend like 30 min sitting there observing the birds, without interaction with them. To observe their breathing and behavior, maybe in such position , so they cant see you or such??

How they walk, and later what poops they make. You know your birds, so after some time observing , you should be noticing any different behavior or posture. How is the 
"fainting" PJ doing today?

Nell


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## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

Oh ok i'll try that out guys  And Nell the birds seem good. My breeders are giving some of the best youngsters since i started. My flyers. They're doing great too. All bigger than ever...haven't let em out to fly for a while thats why. They seem normal. All walk around good and everything. And no watery droppings or anything.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Gurbir said:


> Oh ok i'll try that out guys  And Nell the birds seem good. My breeders are giving some of the best youngsters since i started. My flyers. They're doing great too. All bigger than ever...haven't let em out to fly for a while thats why. They seem normal. All walk around good and everything. And no watery droppings or anything.


here is an idea that may help with paratyphoid prevention
use nolvansan it is chlorhexidine...I read you can put one teaspoon per gallon in drinking water regularly to maintain an acidic enviroment in the droppings...I don't know if you would want to do this as you may like more natural approches, but if you do not want to vax or do not like the idea of it it may be a extra thing you could do....i guess the idea is that the paratyphoid does not like an acidic environ....


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*This is what vinegar is supposed to do*

If you want to take a more natural approach. But I don't know if it can actually prevent Paratyphoid or Coccidiosis.

Bill


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

jbangelfish said:


> If you want to take a more natural approach. But I don't know if it can actually prevent Paratyphoid or Coccidiosis.
> 
> Bill


that is what I thought too when I read it...plus the acv has probiotics in it if you get the organic kind...this would not...maybe a better application would be to clean your loft with it....


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## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

So i should clean every corner of my loft and vaccinate the birds...i see i see....must make a trip to my mentor about the stuff i need and where to get it  But i'll have to leave that to next week since he's really busy with the show. (He's the president)


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