# lower beak problem



## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Spotted this black(ish) pigeon feeding on the balcony. Or, trying to - I don't know if he could pick anything up. It appears that the lower part of the beak is gone completely. 

Problem is, until / unless he is too weak to fly away, I have no hope of catching him on the balcony. It is just too small to be able to get outside without everyone, including my currently-nesting birds, just taking off - no room to manouver.

Anyway, I put some peanuts in a deeper bowl and scattered some little wholemeal bread pieces, in the hope that he may be able to somehow pick them up. Maybe he has the knack of picking up pigeon food, the larger items, but I don't know for sure (again, if they are actually at the food tray, I can't get close enough to see properly).

I got these pics through the part-open door fixed so it wouldn't move and scare 'em off, with the telefoto while he was on the balcony railing and unaware.

John


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

How sad, John. I hope you can catch this one or perhaps "lure" it inside. 

Terry


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

OMG, John, this poor little bird. You must catch him somehow, maybe a trap would help, the box with string method?
I can't imagine he is eating well with this handicap.

Reti


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Reti said:


> OMG, John, this poor little bird. You must catch him somehow, maybe a trap would help, the box with string method?
> I can't imagine he is eating well with this handicap.


Problem with the trap, unfortunately, is that there are usually several (sometimes a lot) all trying to get to the food. 



TAWhatley said:


> How sad, John. I hope you can catch this one or perhaps "lure" it inside.


That may be the only way. If the door is open and he steps in on his own after the 'mob' have gone, and I have a string ready to close it.... 

John


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi John,



Yahhhhhhh...if you can, maybe scatter Seeds in a small area, crouch there with your hands poised, and, after several rounds of that, maybe see if you can catch him gently...

He looks like he might be doing pretty well even, or the loss of his lower Mandible looks healed and snug and without appearant infection or problems...like it is an old injury he has managed to adapt to...

Seeds in a deepish small Bowl of course would be easier for him...

But, if you can gently catch him, it would of course be good, so you can really examine him, weigh him, check his Keel for suggestions of being thin and so on...


Amazeing...

Good luck..!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Yep, I think you're right about the old injury, Phil. Seems to me the lower cere-like part is bigger than any I see in my various close up shots of other pigeons.

If I do catch him, it won't be outside, as they won't even land if they see me on their tiny balcony

John


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi John,



Ahhhhhh, well...maybe the progressive Seed placement till it leads them/him inside...if he comes in, then let him/them be till night, then catch him gently in the semi darkness and do your best to calm him and so on...

They can be wiley!

Good luck...

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Such a beautiful pij, despite his apparent handicap.

Wishing you luck in a speedy & successful capture John.
Great photography by the way.  

Cindy


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Oh John, I do hope you can catch him. His eyes make me think he doesn't feel well.

Maggie


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

John,

I'm praying for special divine assistance to help you in a speedy capture of this pigeon. Sometimes that is all I can do when left faced with such dilemna, then an idea will pop up.
He certainly deserves your help, even though he is scared & doesn't know what your up too.


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## kittypaws (Sep 18, 2005)

*Poor little chap*

Good luck John,

I know you won't give in lightly 

Tania


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Well, first thing this A.M. I didn't see the bird waiting for food. Anyway, I put out the bottom half of a round feeder (deep sides) and filled up with pigeon mix. Next thing, the black pigeon was there, standing in the feeder with wings half spread and fending off all comers.

I could look down through the glass door long as I kept real still and, without doubt, by a lot of pecking down into the piled up feed, he was somehow picking up corn and pigeon peas and stuff - and I could see his little throat move as he swallowed the food.

He was there quite a while - not the quick 'gobble it down then away' of most of the pigeons - so looks like if he keeps doggedly at it, where the food is accessible to him, he can eat. 

That's only OK so long as the food is there - unless he has other sources - so he still needs to be checked over.

Have you noticed how sometimes a disabled pigeon really gets tough with others to ensure survival? Some seem to kinda give up, others seem to develop more aggressiveness.

John


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

John that looks like an old wound, nicely healed. I suspect that pij has found ways around his handicap. Can forsee problems though. That upper mandible looks a little long to me. What do you think?


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Nooti said:


> John that looks like an old wound, nicely healed. I suspect that pij has found ways around his handicap. Can forsee problems though. That upper mandible looks a little long to me. What do you think?


Hi Helen,

Yes, totally agree. I only noticed him because of hearing a very insistent tap-tap-tap. That was in the flat dish, where there was little food, and was his top mandible just hitting the dish without achieving anything.

John


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

He could do with tapping quite a bit more - keep that mandible trimmed!  
He might get problems later on if it gets too long. He's lucky beaks don't grow as fast as rodents teeth so I think he's probably got a pretty good long time in front of him yet if he stays out of harm's way.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

Just from a cursory look at the two photos, your bird with a good part of its lower beak misisng looks healthy and even well-groomed (from the front). 

After I spent so much time watching Splitbeak eat (whom I discussed in other posts), a pigeon with no uppper beak, it seems that your pigeon has enough lower mandible to do some basic grooming, and to get at some food. If he can eat from a deep dish I see no immediate problem for him. Splitbeak was looking better all the time over the several month she had access to large seeds and peas in a deep jelly jar. Splitbeak also definitely wanted her freedom, even if only to hand around sevral large trees and streetcar utility lines at a church square. We had her inside for a week, with excellent food, yet she was eager to get out. It was delightful to see her make a big gaping yawn with her dark pink tongue sticking out at me. She was also aggressive in chasing the other opportunistic pigeons away from her seed jar, since she knew I came by once a day, and sometimes birds of prey would limit her feeding time. 

This may be a stretch of the imagination on my part, or maybe sentimental and silly wishful thinking, but your pigeon seems to have a smile or a contented look to him. Maybe he knew of your reputation before the two of you met, and now he knows everything will be okay.


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## Garye (Feb 20, 2005)

Yes, I do John, notice how aggressive hurt pigeons can be when it comes to getting food. Brokenfoot was like that. She would sit right on the food to make sure she got enough when her leg was bad. But now that she can move around, she's not so aggressive.

I think the hurt ones know they have to be aggressive in order to survive and they will fend off the others to make sure they get what they need. It's a good thing too.

I hope your hurt friend will let you catch him so he can have a better chance of survival.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

So yesterday afternoon, he did not make an appearance. 

Right now, however (07:45) he is outside, chomping away in the deep bowl, while others have to wait their turn. 

Oh, OK, he's now lying down on top of the balcony rail looking pretty satisfied!

Addendum...

A few minutes ago, I saw another black pigeon who sometimes comes here. I could see definite beak problems - looks like canker and/or pox. Have a suspicion that one may lose some of its beak, too. I have occasionally seen these two together - or, at least, here at the same time. Problem is, neither are 100% reliable visitors. 



John


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

John,

Oh dear, I sure hope the time comes when you can capture them. But for now, I'm happy to hear they are getting enough to eat.

Is there any way you can give them a bowl of water to drink from your balcony with canker meds in it? Would that help?


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Hi Treesa,

Hadn't considered the meds in water. It is worth a try - it can go in the 'bathtub'. Will do no harm - may help. Good thinking, that lady 

Other thing I'm thinking is a way to get meds mixed in with the food.

Either way, though, it is unfortunately hit and miss, with so many birds turning up and the 'targets' not consistent visitors.

John


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Feral pigeons with damaged beaks*

Greetings, John (and other readers), 

I include some background for other readers not familiar with my dealings last year with a pigeon with a missing upper beak, whom I caught and had to release a week after I removed a hard, clotted mass of poop adhering to her feathers and lower breast. I had to go to the place where Splitbeak was in order to feed her, and "stalk" her and get her attention with the jar of seeds. I used a more expensive mix of feed for her, ((Belgian) N.V. Versele-Laga Complete Feed for Pigeons, 6,59 €uros/5 kgs) with roasted soybeans and a good variety of mixed seeds, just to be sure that she knew she had a selection to choose from, and which would make her feel good. (I could afford it, since it was intended for only one pigeon, plus a couple of opportunists I didn't have the heart to always chase away after Splitbeak had her fill, or who might be busy chasing some other pigeon from her jar). I also had to make sure she "took the bait" and fed quickly, since I couldn't hang around forever in inclement weather, not to mention attracting undue attention to the fact that I was illegally feeding a street pigeon.

She came to associate me with the food. Sometimes she would associate the feeding place with the food. I would sometimes retrieve the seed jar and move away when too many more aggressive pigeons were dominating the seed jar, and defeating my main purpose in being there. I would try to get her to understand that we should rendezvous across the street or somewhere a bit more discreet. I always had to keep at least a couple of meters away from her, and I tried to stay four or five meters away so that the other pigeons would see me but not what really mattered to them: FOOD! Splitbeak was usually most comfortable when some pigeons were within her scope of vision, to warn her of raptors. Eventually in mid- or late afternoon she would anticipate and recognize me getting off a streetcar at one of the several approaches to the intersection, and would come to meet me, and would even precede me to the apparent meeting place for that day. It took a while before that came to pass, but I started to anticipate our meetings as one of the highlights of my day. 

I put probiotic powder (for pigeons) and DE (diatomaceous earth) in one of the seed jars, and occasionally substituted it with the regular seed jar. She never drank from a jar of multi-vitamin-fortified or ACV-fortified (apple cider vinegar) water I sometimes offered. I fed her regularly from a seed jar over a period of four months, from August to December 6th, 2005, when I last saw her. I also had a second jar of seeds with me in case we couldn't evade the attention of the other pigeons. The other pigeons expected me to show up with only one jar of seed, and towards the end of our feeding relationhsip Splitbeak and I had worked out the routine that we would in that situation sneak off to a quieter and less noticeable spot. 

Splitbeak seemed a slow learner, although I don't have much experience with pigeons with which to compare. I think her malnutrition and possible starvation may have affected her cognition.

When I have to get some seed to a pigeon in rainy weather, I put some seed in a large jar, sometimes mix in powdered probiotics, DE, and a small amount of a spice mix someone else in pigeons.com forum recommended (wish I could remember who, so as to properly attribute it) of two parts garlic powder to one part ginger powder and one part cinnamon powder. I toss the mix, then add several dribbles or spoons of olive oil to bind the powder to the seeds. The oil adds high fat, and I presume keeps the seed from getting soaked with ice-cold water in winter. I have yet to find a particle of distributed but uneaten seed.

Perhaps you could use an oil to bind powdered or pulverized dry medicine to the food. 

If your food is of importance to these handicapped pigeons, your address will be tops in their "Places to Visit and Things To Do." If they have plenty of other reliable food sources, well, that is all to the good, isn't it? Best of luck.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Hi Larry,

Great descriptions of how you helped "Splitbeak", thanks 

Yep, those pigeons are hard to evade when you just have one 'target'. I shall be doing something along these lines, I think, with meds and food - or water, or both - to try to ensure that some medication will be ingested over the next few days. 

As an OT aside, looking out of my window as I write, I see a very large Herring Gull perching on my flat balcony railing! I think he is hoping to get water 

Anyway, I guess removing the bathtub and substituting a smaller pot of drinking water next to the food may help, as that can be medicated.

I now have a tub of Turbosole, which is ample to provide a flock treatment for Canker for the full 5 days and plenty left over. This is aimed at the second black pigeon, really - and as a preventative for others who may partake of the same food as the afflicted one and thereby pick up canker that way. 

If it is pox rather than canker, then it won't do any harm anyway. 

In fact, I can't help feeling that - accident or congenital deformity aside - it would more likely have been pox in the first bird. I can't say I heard of canker clearing up untreated, whereas pox could just run its course albeit taking the lower beak with it. 

Friend in London has a pigeon with only a little lower beak left - we're pretty sure that was pox _and_ canker - but who has adapted wonderfully. He, too, thinks my missing beak bird has old, well healed damage:



> Do not worry about the pidge's beak as she has both hinges on the lower mandible joined across at the front. The Keratin, has been damaged beyond repair but hard tissue has grown over. In fact she is lucky as sometimes the Keratin grows back out into a shape that needs attention/infection, etc.


Interestingly, he is only a year or so into pigeon rescues, but he has a very good avian vet, and other knowledge, and knows more about beaks than I do, I readily admit!

John


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