# shaking eggs..



## traci_sss (Nov 24, 2004)

I want to try to do this to control my birds population.. would anyone be able to tell me how long you have to shake the eggs and forceful do you need to do it..

thanks in advance..


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## birdlover000 (Aug 17, 2003)

Shaking won't always work, so you'll want to hard boil the eggs instead.....


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

I agree with David. Shaking isn't always successful in stopping the development of an embryo.

Terry


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## joefi2 (Aug 11, 2005)

*No More Cutie,s*

WOULD SAY JUST TOSS THE EGG,S BUT THAT SOUND,S CRUEL GET SOME GLASS OR WOODEN EGGS PAINTED WHITE THEY WILL SIT ON THEM LIKE REEL EGG,S THEN TAKE THEM AWAY AFTER 18 DAY,S OR SO ,BOY THAT DOES SOUND CRULE AWE JUST LET THEM HATCH,, SOME ONE WILL WANT THEM OR JUST TRY SEPERATING THEM BOY,S ON ONE SIDE GAL,S ON THE OTHER SIDE HARD CHOICE


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*Protien*

Have you dropped thier protien down. Breeding 17% Non breeding 11%. Can you go lower without hurting the birds?


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

I agree, this probably won't work.

Boiling is better, but make sure you watch it so it does not crack, also some birds are way too smart and they'll 'feel' that it's not right. And others will accept anything (like my Pearl and Dotty *smiles*)


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## NumberNine (Jul 19, 2005)

You could do as follow: Remove the two eggs from the hen and keep them in a jar in a closet. Next time the hen lays eggs, switch the the two good eggs with the two you have kept. Those two are dead.

That's what I do with my pigeons. It takes about 10 days for the eggs to be produced and the pigeons usually give up between 4-5 weeks (in my case anyway). So my hen is laying eggs once every 40-45 days at most.

P.S. I helped them with the nest. They have a small (7" X 10") piece of soft carpet at the bottom of their nest. This way the dead egg cannot be damaged. I also give them dried pine needle for nest making. I've been doing that for years without a problem. You could also increase the barley in their diet and see how they react.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

seperateing the pairs when you are done In the breeding season Is best. I pulleggs at 10 days so the birds will not sit and produce pigeon milk which is not as healthy for the birds to do if you are not gonig to let them raise young birds.I think its better to pull eggs at ten days. Remove any nests And production goes down. Better rest happens by seperating the birds. So they do not try to nest.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Between pulling eggs, putting down dummies until 18 days, and barley, production is down, but you are right re lee, I think it is best to seperate hens from males, and that is what we are going to do before next year.

It gives the females a time to go on a complete "vacation" from all the business of brooding and gives them the rest they need, and get their calcium reserves back up. This is especially important as hens age. Mine are now getting to be 4 years and older. 

I have had some great experience with eggbound hens, oviduct infections, and other problems this past year, at the expense of stressing my hens. I've learned alot, and been able to resolve the issues, but I'm not going to put my hens thru it again. Two of the hens also ended up getting cocci ( from immune system stress) which we rehabbed successfully without drugs. 

My pigeons are otherwise very healthy, as the males exhibit and my younger hens, but I have learned from this experience, the emotional aspect of seperating is NOTHING compared to the problems that hens get.


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## NumberNine (Jul 19, 2005)

My cock is 9 year old, the hen is 5 year old. Number of times the cock got sick since birth? Once, had canker during first year and is 100% my fault. Number of times the hen got sick since birth? Zero. She lays eggs 5-10 times per year. Diet consists mostly of Hagen's. They live in a heated/air conditioned housing. Next to their housing, they have a "gymnasium" with balconies and skylights roof. Next to the gymnasium is the bath area. I guess mines are not stressed. If I were to separate them, I would make two birds unhappy, so they are together all year round. Sometimes the hen wait 2-4 weeks before laying eggs, instead of the 10-11 days. In particular in winter. Though their living quarters are heated to 68F during winter.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

hey NumberNine - I wouldn't be stressed with a setup like that!  That sounds like wonderful living conditions. maggie


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I haven't had any health issues other then the 4 hens, and I have 48 pigeons, and 1/2 are female.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

At the begining of each breeding season I will for 5 days give the breeding hens oyster shell tabs to build up exsess calcium in the body. THen on to normal grit. This aids in egg bound birds and weakness just after laying. as some birds will abut die after they lay if they have a low calcium level. I have done this for many years and it helps alot to beging the season knowing the hens are ready and healthy enough to lay and raise. And about the set up You have. Is it a holiday inn exppress. Kidding sounds like they get pamperd. Do you just have the one pair?


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## NumberNine (Jul 19, 2005)

Maggie,

Nothing is ever good enough for your own children!  

Re lee,

It makes a very long time since I took a chemistry course and memory isn't what it used to be, but when you increase the calcium, aren't you supposed to also increase a few other things like, magnesium, iron, vitamin d and at least one other I'm forgetting?

I'm almost sure that (some 20 years ago) I read that for the calcium to be absorbed, you needed other elements to be present in the proper percentage. IOW, increasing calcium alone wasn't enough, you also had to increase those other things. Can someone corroborate or contradict me? 

Holiday Inn express? Are you insulting me?  They have The Holiday Inn Crown Plaza  Yes, just one pair in permanence. They cannot be released. I rescue and release birds all through the year. About 95% are pigeons. 

P.S. My grit is high on oyster shells. Unfortunately, Kaytee isn't selling it anymore. I should have bought 200lbs instead of just 100lbs.


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Hi Numbernine,

Not sure about birds, but I know the calcium supplements for human females contain Vitamin D to enhance calcium absorption and Vitamin K to aid in calcium utilization.

Linda


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## NumberNine (Jul 19, 2005)

Thanks Linda.

I've done a quick google search and found the following:

From http://www.auspigeonco.com.au/products/New_Bird_products.html

"The levels of calcium and magnesium in the body are related, with levels of calcium in the diet affecting the magnesium requirement. As the level of calcium in the diet rises, this increases the requirement for magnesium. It is therefore useful to also provide magnesium in a calcium supplement"

I don't have time to search further, but I'm almost sure that there are others that also need to be increased when increasing calcium intake.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Pigeons require calcium/magnesium and phosphorus and vitamin D for absorption, as well as various microminerals.

It is best to get in the diet, but a multi-vitamin mineral with a good amino acid profile is always good as part of a prevention plan.


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## NumberNine (Jul 19, 2005)

I guess I wasn't too far...  

"Note: high calcium increases the need for phosphorous, iron and manganese."

Read the thread "Avian Nutrition:Calcium". I spent a total of an hour searching the Net last night. Then this morning I came to pigeons.com and did a search. Really unbelievable that info such as this is left to drift away.

It would make sense to put all the hard to find info into a single folder, at the top of each sub-forum.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

NumberNine said:


> I guess I wasn't too far...
> "Note: high calcium increases the need for phosphorous, iron and manganese."
> Read the thread "Avian Nutrition:Calcium". I spent a total of an hour searching the Net last night. Then this morning I came to pigeons.com and did a search. Really unbelievable that info such as this is left to drift away.
> It would make sense to put all the hard to find info into a single folder, at the top of each sub-forum. But making sense isn't mankind's strong point.



Hi NumberNine,

The information was not left to drift away,
Check the following thread: look under food, grit & calcium, there is a link to thread 7769 

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=5760 scroll down...



Take a look in the DAILY FORUM under RESOURCES when you have some time, there is a wealth of information there.


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## NumberNine (Jul 19, 2005)

Trees Gray said:


> Take a look in the DAILY FORUM under RESOURCES when you have some time, there is a wealth of information there.


I had never been in that subforum before. I've always gone to the last two, "Birds wanted & for sale and Adoption forum for pigeons. I've seen the "Resources", but under it starts by "Pigeons related WEB links..." and I didn't need that.

Based on the description, it wasn't clear to me that crucial, hard-to-find, rare and one of a kind information would be located in this trivial subforum. Maybe a more explicit title or definition might help the newcomers. Maybe something like, "Mandatory reading regarding pigeons welfare" or "Rare and hard to find info regarding pigeons". Something more explicit.

Thanks for pointing it out. Because I never had any intention to spend more time exploring ALL the subforums.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

I know of several people who at the begining of breeding season Just prior to or at pairing start there hens on a 5 day oyster shell tab treatment. For better breeding . No thin eggs less health problems And a better way to have the hens in ready condition for the season. Its stressful on the hens at breeding time. Added protection takes a little bit of time . But good results. Since I went to this practices Back in the 80s have had very little set backs on the hens. Any excess the birds do not need they will pass. Good feed grit water takes over from there. You can use just grit. but an edge is to use the oyster shell tabs. And keep some on hane for problem times. Ever see a hen lay go down can not walk or fly. left untreated they die sometimes. And some die at egg laying. oyster shell tabs About stops this in its tracks. Because the birds are sur to have enough to start with on calcium. But A person can do as they wish. I just thought I would suggest what I know works.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Oh, that is sad, I've heard of hens with severe calcium deficiencies, but never seen it myself.

Does the oyster calcium absorb as well as the oyster grit?


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

When you raise pigeons over time you will see birds go down After they lay. And older hens more often. I can remember back in about 1983. I had a hen start to lay And I came home from work went to feed and she was dieing right then I picked her up and she died in my hands in seconds. I actully removed the egg as I pais a good price for that hen. And it was her first set of eggs. I hatched the egg under another pair. Yes the oyster shell tabs work very well. I on fantails Break it in half. And give as 2 halfs. On homers and larger birds. You can give then the whole tab at a time. brewers yeast tabs work well also. It is just as I said a good way to start a season By getting the hens ready safely. And i still think it helps on egg binding to. As the bird is more prepared to devolp and lay the egg better.


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## NumberNine (Jul 19, 2005)

re lee,

Thanks for sharing your experience with us. I'm not familair with those oyster shell tabs. If you still have the original packaging, could you let us know what the ingredients or percentage of vitamins/minerals are?

Treesa,

The diseases you have recently experienced could be because your loft is overcrowded. You mentionned that you took more birds due to tropical storm(s) and that you were looking forward to expanding the size of your loft. The cramped quarters of your birds might have translated into stress, which translated into sickness and illness.

The same thing would apply to human beings. If you were to invite all your relatives on your side of your family and your husband would invite all his relatives and all those people would live in your house. It is guaranteed that it would create tension, which would turn into stress and into illness.

My 2 cents.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

re lee,

Thanks for the follow up on the oyster tablets.




NumberNine said:


> Treesa,
> The diseases you have recently experienced could be because your loft is overcrowded. You mentionned that you took more birds due to tropical storm(s) and that you were looking forward to expanding the size of your loft. The cramped quarters of your birds might have translated into stress, which translated into sickness and illness.
> My 2 cents.



NumberNine,

We have never experienced diseases in our coop, just egg problems with 4 hens and cocci, resluting from the stress in 2 of the hens. We took in 3 refugees from hurricane Jeanne, because their home was destroyed.

We are only expanding because we want to seperate our males from females as well as help out my rehabber who will be moving in the future. She has many homing pigeons and show birds that will need homes. She wouldn't ask me to take them, if she thought they would be stressed, she has been rehabbing 30 years.

As far as our coop goes, we have a huge walk in coop and aviary with a seperate room for meals. We also have a seperate coop and walk in aviary for our show birds. Our birds are one of the happiest,healthiest of groups this side of the Atlantic. We have a waiting list of birds who want to come and live here.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hey NumberNine, Treesa has a wonderful set up for her pigeons. There is a recent thread where she posted pictures (can't remember which one) so check them out. All pigeons should be so lucky.

I do think a dedicated sub-forum would be a big help. You would have one place to go to for help in feeding, housing, treatment, release, etc. But, you need to take the time to check out all the great stuff on the home page. There are great pictures, art, stories and helpful info.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Welll If I remember when I go to the loft I will look at the contents. I think You can go to any Walmart Find the oyster shell tabs There. I bought mine there last year. MY loft is A block and half from the house. As I have over a block and half of property. And at the end house. I have a loft shop And small house. Kinda have my own private park. Used to look pretty good but I can not take as good care of it nwo. But do what I can. As for coccidi. I use sulmet In the water. works well. NOW coccidi. Thrives in less sun light. cool weather damp conditions. Around here in the summer months Its almost unheard of. In the fall about end of OCT. I treat for 5 days and see very little to no problem. With just sulmet. Now rescue rehab you would perhaps find sick birds often. And sick birds spread the problem.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Sounds like a great place to live,re lee. Great place to have pigeons. I will have to check for the oyster tabs at our Wal mart.

I never have any cocci at all, just the two stressed ladies, I isolated and treated them naturally and they were clear in 5 days, never seen anything like that in any of my other birds, and any other disease, and I hope I never do.


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