# Question for Frank



## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

I am trying to find out about cross billed birds. I know that this is certainly an undesirable trait but I want to know the genetics and how this gene works. I just bought some Figuritas and there are a couple of cross bills in the group. I would never breed from such a bird but someone has and I need to sort out where the gene is.

Is it a simple recessive gene?

Can a crossbill come from one bad parent (a crossbill or het crossbill) or does it take both to carry the gene to pass it on to the young? I'm guessing that homozygous CBs are actual CBs and that hets don't show it but I really don't know and haven't seen one in years until now. Could a het produce CBs by being bred to a bird that is clean? I doubt it but don't know.

Thanks,

Bill


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## bluecheck (Aug 17, 2006)

The simple answer is I don't know. Let me do some checking and see if anyone does know. 

Frank


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## bluecheck (Aug 17, 2006)

Bill, Here's one answer I got from Jerry Sternadel <[email protected]>,
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Frank,

I raise Figuritas, and I have had a few cross billed birds. I believe it can be either or both genetic and developmental, at least that is what my experience so far says. I also would be very careful breeding from these birds, if it is genetic then it is being re-enforced. My thoughts right now is it is recessive. I am also not sure if the developmental cross beak happens because of a genetic weakness to start with. The birds I believe to be developmental look fine until they are about two weeks old or so, when the really heavy feeding starts. This may indicate a weakness that is exposed during the heavy feeding period. I can't say that for sure, but it is my thoughts at this point in time. I have one now that looked fine for quite a while, and now the bottom beak is longer than the top by a lot, no other problems have been notice in this line. I am sure this is genetic.

If I seem to be rambling it is because I have mixed thoughts on this crossed beak stuff in Figuritas. I have done some testing, and the results are inconclusive so far, and I am not sure how much testing I want to do with crossed beaks.

Have your friend E-mail me in private and I will try to compare notes with him. 

Jerry


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Thanks for the quick response*

I emailed your friend and told him my suspicions about it. I believe that it is probably a simple recessive and only shows itself in homozygous birds. I would never breed from any of these hets or **** if I knew about it.

I'll let you know what comes of this. Thanks again,

Bill


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## bluecheck (Aug 17, 2006)

If you'd like to see the other comments regarding this, you might like to join the Yahoo Pigeon Genetics group. 

[email protected]


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Thanks alot Frank*

Jerry was very helpful and told me of his observations among his own flock. Producing one or two of these a year suggests something other than a recessive gene, which would result in many more, like one in four from a pair that carried the gene.

I wonder if it isn't something like getting a feather legged baby from a pair of clean legged parents even when they have been clean legged for many generations. I don't know what to call this type of throwback situation or why it occurs in the first place. These two Figurita breeders are talking about one or two crossbills a year showing up in their flocks.

I have often wondered what makes these one in a hundred (or even less) types of things show up. Is there some type of phantom or floating gene that can show up once or twice in a bird's breeding life? I also wonder if it is possible that this occurs during an illness, time of weakness or even from a medication or outside cause. It is a mystery. I'm just glad to hear that these guys don't seem to be dealing with an actual recessive gene. I hope.

I will check out the genetic site. I think I may have before and it's even possible that I joined at some point. If you were to ask my wife, she'd say that I already spend way too much time on the computer.

Bill


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