# Extending the Breeding Season



## trailbound (Apr 11, 2007)

I have searched the archives, and have been unable to find anything on doing this. I am wondering what is the main determining factor in when the birds stop breeding for the season, I am assuming it is either daylight or temperature, or both. What does a person have to do to encourage breeders to breed thru a winter? I have a loft for my breeders that is fully insulated, and so I can rig to heat pretty easily (we see temps as low as -60F in Dec-Jan and daylight for only about 4 hours in the dead of winter, and dusky daylight at that) Do they need a special kind of light, or just a plain old lightbulb? I have 12 breeding pairs of homers, housed in a loft that is 14'x8'.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Trailbound,
Most pieons do breed all year round unless the temperature is really low. If they do take a break, it's best to let them have it. Breeding is very hard on especially the hen, depleting her calcium supply . It's good to let them rest if they want to.
I'm sure they would appreciate some light on those long winter days and in my opinion, a little heat to take the chill off, would be a lovely thing to do for them.


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## Hamza (Dec 28, 2006)

Pigeons breed all year long except when theres a problem ie. temperature, timings of the sun, nesting places or sickines..


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## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

If your birds are healthy then its mostly the temperature and daylight factor. If you want to extend you better invest in heaters and some good lighting


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## velo99 (Apr 8, 2007)

For most pigeons the 12 hours of sunshine mark is the point where they start slowing down. Usually mid September for me when I shut down for the season. I usually pair up The first or second week of January using my lights to warm and illuminate the loft. By Valentines Day I usually have the first clutch hatched. This season I am breeding two kits for other guys, or I would be done in two or three more weeks.

One comment on breeding. We talk about resting the breeders during the seasson. I use the incubation period to really stock up on the birds nutritional health. You have two and a half weeks for the birds to rest and get back in shape. Vaccinations are done during this time as well. I think it could pass the protection along to the chicks when done at the proper time.
JMHO


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## trailbound (Apr 11, 2007)

Velo and others,
That was exactly the type of information I was hoping to find here, and Velo, what type of lights do you use?
Kelley


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Hi Kelley,

Here is a previous thread that discusses using lighting for breeding....Just click on it:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=18761

Hope this will be helpful....if you want to find more threads to look over, you can utilize the "Search" option...upper right hand corner at the top of the page. Click on it and then type in the box, the subject you're interested in, such as "lighting system for breeding" and several threads will come up.

Linda


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## Becca199212 (May 10, 2007)

On that thread it mentions cutting fantails tail feathers, we have never done this, i'm just wondering if this coud be why we have never got any baby fantails.
How would I go about doing it? Will it cause them any pain?


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## velo99 (Apr 8, 2007)

Becca,
Cutting feathers is like cutting hair. No pain. If you cut em to and 1 1/2`` long they won`t look too silly and still be able to TCB with breeding. They will grow back when they moult.


Trail,
I just use the clamp lamps with a 125 watt heat lamp. If it isn`t too cold I turn them off about nine at night. Squabs are good down to about 25 degrees or so if they have a nesty and good parents. Some of the durability depends on the loft. If it is drafty and damp the birds will feel colder. Feed also plays a part with certain grains offering more heat via metabolic systemology.


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## Becca199212 (May 10, 2007)

Are you sure it doesn't hurt, we were planning clipping the wings but when we tried to do the first feather the bird seems to flinch so we assumed he could feel it and didn't go on to do any more. How many should we cut?


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## Hamza (Dec 28, 2006)

The bird feels hurt when feathers are "PLUCKED" and not when trimmed.. For wings, leave 2-3 primary feathers on each wing and cut 5-7 feathers after them, starting from outside towards the body... You can also tie wings.. Just leave 2-3 primary feathers on each wing and then tie (with strong thread) or tape (electrical or masking) the 5-7 feathers you were "going" to trim...

Hope it helps.. Dunno abt the tail though...


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## Becca199212 (May 10, 2007)

We didn't pluck the feathers we cut them, would it hurt them if you cut the feathers too low down. I cut it so there was only about 10cm of the feather left on the bird, and it flinched and tried to get away but on the same feather I had tried cutting about 5cm off the end and it didn't seem to mind that, I am positive it wasn't a blood feather.


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Becca, many fantail breeders trim the tails and also trim around the birds' vents to help them with fertility. My fantails have managed to fertilize eggs without the "haircut," but they do better with it.


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## Becca199212 (May 10, 2007)

Trimmed them today, they didn't seem to mind. Only cut about 5cm off the end of each feather, it looks strange. They wern't too happy to be held though but we made it up to them with some food.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

trailbound said:


> I have searched the archives, and have been unable to find anything on doing this. I am wondering what is the main determining factor in when the birds stop breeding for the season, I am assuming it is either daylight or temperature, or both. What does a person have to do to encourage breeders to breed thru a winter? I have a loft for my breeders that is fully insulated, and so I can rig to heat pretty easily (we see temps as low as -60F in Dec-Jan and daylight for only about 4 hours in the dead of winter, and dusky daylight at that) Do they need a special kind of light, or just a plain old lightbulb? I have 12 breeding pairs of homers, housed in a loft that is 14'x8'.


The one question I would have is why ? Extending the breeding season is much like treating your pigeons like chickens. Are you trying to produce robust quality YB's or are you only interested in numbers ? Three rounds is all my hens are permitted to produce in a season. Then they are seperated and given a good six months of rest.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

trailbound said:


> I have searched the archives, and have been unable to find anything on doing this. I am wondering what is the main determining factor in when the birds stop breeding for the season, I am assuming it is either daylight or temperature, or both. What does a person have to do to encourage breeders to breed thru a winter? I have a loft for my breeders that is fully insulated, and so I can rig to heat pretty easily (we see temps as low as -60F in Dec-Jan and daylight for only about 4 hours in the dead of winter, and dusky daylight at that) Do they need a special kind of light, or just a plain old lightbulb? I have 12 breeding pairs of homers, housed in a loft that is 14'x8'.




Hi trailbound, 



My indoor ( in the same space I occupy, ) ones breed all year round and there is no heat in here in Winter ( Water standing in the Sink or in their Water Bowls will sometimes freeze solid, ) and for years, there was no cooling either, so indoors would easily be 104 or so in Summer, be 100 at midnight even. ( Now I have a little Swamp Coller which takes the edge off if you are close to it.) 

My guess, is that if there is faith in steady food being available, and the temps are within some range for them of acceptable, they will keep on it.


Light - as others have said - may play some role also of course...and Winter time indoors of course, one has the lights on long after 'dark', as a matter of routine Living.


So, as far as a simple pragmatic, if you want them to breed all year long, just bring them inside..! Or, simulate inside conditions for their abode.




Phil
Las Vegas


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Warren, 


Good question...

I only thought of that after I had posted.


The Wild-Feral ones around here to some degree breed all year round, or used to do so more in years passed it seems.

I would always be seeing 'debutant' fledglings amid the feral flock, as well as finding orphan Babys or youngsters or them being brought to me all year round.


Far as I know, if the prospective parents are healthy, have access to wholesome food, and get plenty of excercise, I imagine they can get away with it for a long time.

But possibly it is indeed not the best for them, to go on like that for too long without repite...



Phil
Las Vegas


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Hello Phil,

There are commercial breeders which will breed 12 months out of the year. If you are getting many hundreds or thousands even.... for YB's off a famous cock, you can see where the temptation is to produce as many as you can. Just imagine how worn out a hen must be, even with the best of everything.....after 6 or 8 or even 10 rounds....I have seen the difference in the YB's when the pairs were permitted to breed into the hot summer months. The YB's would get pumped full of water, and would not turn out as nice. The term "Late Hatches" often meant the birds hatched out late in the year...often cheaper because they were often not worth as much.

And if we are talking about pet pigeons with no real commercial value, then shouldn't some consideration be given to birth control just like we do with our dogs and cats ? Just a thought, since with just a couple pairs, one could produce 4 birds a month for quite awhile....that is a lot of homes to find...


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Warren, 



Oh, I had never really thought of that...Breeders asking or encouraging immodest replications of their 'Stock' for financial gain at the Bird's expense...


That is not kind...and of course not optimum for anyone.

By saying 'mine' breed all year long...I do not mean the same pairs! These ( met here and became mates of ) pairs are almost never here for that long...although some of my non-releaseables of course are here for the long haul, and sometimes I let them have a go and raise a brood, and these debutants self release nicely into the feral flock with nothing needed from me.

It does bring the parents much obvious fulfillment and satisfaction to brood and raise some Babys now and then.

It would seem cruel of me to deny them that.


But truely, if not overseen and prevented with the occasional dummy Eggs ( old 'duds' from self-paired Hens or other ) with clear Pencil "X"s on them, saved for the purpose, ) one can indeed have lots and LOTS of Pigeons resulting..!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Mine breed year round, but we have a mild climate. I don't let them raise chicks year round, though. In fact most of my pigeons are sitting on dummy eggs most of the time. I don't have room to separate pairs so they are always together, but I do make sure they have plenty of calcium and supplements so they are in the best condition possible. To tell the truth, if I had it to do over I'd design our loft differently so I could separate the sexes at least during the molt. I have had some problems this year with some of my older hens laying soft-shelled eggs. Putting human calcium supplements directly in their beaks has helped. 

Breeding does take a lot out of them. If you want to maximize the number of young produced, better to let fosters raise some of the chicks. I've actually done this with my Tagenrog tumblers this year. I have four youngsters out of them but they only raised two of them. The hen is sitting on a clutch now and that will be the last one of the year. They are starting to molt and I want everyone to rest.


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## trailbound (Apr 11, 2007)

Waaren,
Sad but true, yes, numbers ARE what I am interested in at this early stage, or I would not have asked the question. None are forced to breed and keep breeding, (if that could even be done) and are allowed breaks as they see fit. Hawks in my area are a serious force to be reckoned with, and I have lost over 1/2 my YB flock this year to them alone. I am going into this years YB race season with a whopping 7 birds, and our season has not even begun yet. We are losing sunlight here to the tune of almost an hour a week (I am in Alaska) and so my question pertained to how to extend this season a little longer than might normally happen here, with the birds comfort and safety in mind. They do not breed all year long in AK like they do in Lower 48 areas, so I am looking at ways to breed them later in the season and also start them earlier in the spring, and will certainly be seperating hens and cocks Dec-Jan. Any YB that are able to withstand the hawk pressure and succeed in a few races this year will hopefully be able to produce more of the same for me next season. Hope that answers the questions you asked in the last post.
Kelley


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