# Our new arrival - little Riley.



## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

The first time dad (Gideon) see's his chick - while mama (Olive) keeps him in check. 
Beautiful to watch and obvious Olive has been a mama before, she removed the shell from the nest and placed both parts on the windowsill as soon as she was confident Gids was no threat to her little Riley. 
Gids, on the other hand, looks like he wondered "What on earth is this"? lol. 
https://youtu.be/1JjuAGdQIFc


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

When did it hatch?
I don't blame her, he looks like he may hurt the baby.


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

Born yesterday Jay. He was sitting on the baby today and I've kept a close eye on him because it's the first time he's seen a chick so I thought he may be a little rough. I kept him away from mum and baby for a few hours but he desperately wanted to go back with Olive so I've watched from a distance to see what he's like. 
I think the fact that he's sitting on the baby is a good sign - at least I hope it is. 
This is my third attempt at having a chick from them and I'd be gutted if anything happened to it.


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

Don't think I need to worry about Riley and judging by that crop I think he's being spoiled.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Awww...what a cutie pie!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

So cute! If he is sitting on him then I would think all is okay. Maybe instinct is kicking in. It may have been a shock to see the little one at first. LOL.


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

He's been sitting on him all afternoon Jay while Olive is having her girlie time and baths. 
I'm having his shell DNA tested and some of Cherrys feathers also, I'm so unsure what Cherry is - coos and dances like a male but has taken to my son and tries to feed through his fingers and keeps squatting. Doesn't do any of that with me, just the dancing thing and won't let me touch her/him - all over my son though. Ungrateful kid!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Hard to say what Cherry is. The gender of the person they pick has nothing to do with what they are. Be interesting to find out though.


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

My son's saying male but I'm saying female. It's doubly hard too because the boy ferals take no notice of her at all, her dad chases her but that could also mean she's a boy because he doesn't dance at her and he's sometimes not very male tolerant. 
I really didn't want to pluck her feathers but she's such a conundrum that I'm very curious now, posting them and Rileys shell tomorrow and should know by the end of next week. 

Really pleased with how sweet Gideon is being with the baby - I knew Olive would be fine and imagine she's done this before, judging by what a devoted sitter she's always been.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Oh Freda, Riley is so so lovely!!!


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

Thank you Colombina, I think so too.


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

Omg, I knew parent raised chicks were larger than hand reared but I never realised just how much bigger they'd be. My hand rears averaged on 28 grams on day five and Riley is more than twice that size at 69 grams. I am totally amazed and would think it also has something to do with him being a single chick too. 
Lovely little porker and looks to be much white in colour so far.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Still such a cutie!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes, he is a little porker, isn't he? Baby pigeons are so cute. Yes, there is a huge difference when raised by parents. The pigeon milk makes a big difference.


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

I'm very surprised and now wonder if I underfed my babes although they always had large crops. 

Gideon has surpassed my expectations of him, and Olive and I are having to wait for him to get off the nest before I close the room after dark. No matter how many times she sits and waits on the drawbridge he still doesn't budge, even though the other two males have ended their sitting shift an hour or so before. I think he must like being a dad and is so sweet.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

It isn't in under feeding them. They didn't get pigeon milk from their parents for the first week of life. That makes a huge difference in their growth. Makes them double in size in the first week.


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

Riley's still gaining weight nicely and is alert when he comes out, although far more contented than my hand rears - however I'm concerned that mum and dads weight may be too much for him and I don't like his feet out like they are. 
I've made an inner nest which I've buried in the original nest to make it comfy for mum and dad and I've packed the insides of the inner nest to hopefully hold the little fellow in a better position for his legs, while taking some of mum and dads weight off of him. He always seems squashed when I take him out so I thought I'd better try and avoid any splaying before I have to use tape.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

A lot of them seem to do that in the beginning, but your doing that with the nest won't hurt any and may be helpful. As long as he has nesting materials under him to grab onto, and they are getting calcium and D3, he will probably be fine. Keep an eye on him though.

As if I have to tell you that.............


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

I'm so hoping he is a hen because I'm pretty sure Cherry is a boy now. Each day she gets more like her dad and also has a thick neck now too I've sent six plucked feathers off for DNA sexing today and also Rileys shell - when the email comes with the results I'll be scared to look, lol. I seem to draw boy pigeons to me like a magnet and I'm pretty sure that won't change. Also what is it with me and white birds? By the look of Rileys pins that are coming through and the pink colouring on his skin, legs and beak it looks like I've got another white. I was hoping Gideon might add a flash of colour mixed with the white, especially as he's from a long line of wild pigeons. I don't know if white is a dominant colour, I know nothing about genetics so will have to wait and see. 
Riley is like holding a duckling compared to my hand reared, he's so chubby and adorable and his dad continues to hog the nursery with him, lol.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

He is a little cherub, isn't he? I'd be scared to look too! I used to have too many females, now I have too many males. What a difference it makes. Much easier and quieter with more females. Too many males is awful. I really hope you have one of each. Makes things so much easier. I will be dying to know. How long will it take before you know? I like the whites to have a splash of color as well. My favorite however is the blacks, all black.


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

It's day seven now and mum and dad are wonderful parents, I've seen each feeding Riley at the slightest peep and if Gideon is out when he peeps he goes straight in the cage to start feeding. Mum pops out every now and then but her main time out is at 5pm and it's dark then, so I keep a half light on until 6.30, while the others are in their cages for the night and she has her bath and wander at ease. 
Only mum and dad have open cages at night now because I want the family to be safe when I'm not around. This is such a wonderful experience, never seen this before and it's beautiful.



















Still waiting on DNA results and weight today is 121 grams


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Beautiful little thing! Why is Dad not taking his turn on the nest during the day? I don't think the others would hurt him, or even be able to get near enough.


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

He goes in and feeds baby while Olive is there but both of them are reluctant to get off once they're on so they stay together in the cage while the other sits. When Gids is on the nest Olive sits on the drawbridge waiting for him to get off and seems at a loss for what to do and when she's sitting he stays on his brick the majority of the time, the only time they separate is at night after Olive has her bath and wander, then he sleeps on the perch by the door and she settles with babe til morning. They shoulda had two - one each!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

She isn't still damp when she goes back on the little one at the end of the day is she? Do they have a light or something to dry off under? Mine love laying around in the sunshine after a bath.


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

Usually Jay she spends some time on the brick in the cage because Gideon won't give up the nest straight away, brick is covered in newspaper and she likes to fluff out on it for a while - they all lie around resting after a bath and I expect she isn't damp by the time she is back on the nest - I will check though because the newspaper will determine how damp she is. She initially returns to everyone's favourite flat wooden perch before going into the cage but I have to admit I hadn't given that a second thought. There's a radiator in their room but I've not put it on since I've had the birds, the only thing I do is close the window at night because the heating from the rest of the house should be enough, much warmer than being outside in a loft and I've wanted to acclimatise them for when they eventually go outside. I wonder though if I'll bring them inside for the winter months although our winters are not usually bad, we don't even get snow which is disappointing. 

Rileys legs look fine btw and I've been adding a little calcium to their water every three days, just a little less than is recommended because I'm scared to overdo it. His lungs are working fine now too, love hearing that sound and even better knowing mum and dad are dealing with it and not me for a change, lol.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

FredaH, love the photos. Your birds look so healthy and happy and lovely!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes, I think they're very lucky birds. They have a great Momma.


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

Thank you ladies that's so sweet. I'm not really good because I haven't given them an aviary yet, husband diagnosed terminal at beginning of the year and three months ago my eldest daughter developed epilepsy and that has delayed many things but come next year I've promised my babes they'll smell fresh air. 
They help me so much in coping with things and give me peace - be lost without them. 
I'm putting up new perches for them today and am stupidly excited about it lol. 

Changed the nest and took the box out today to give them more room. 







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So proud of my lovely boy and his devotion to his chick. 









I'll update when the DNA tests come back - holding my breath on that, ha ha.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Freda, am so sorry for your troubles. Am glad the pigeons provide comfort for you.


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

Thank you cwebster, that's just life isn't it and we are so glad my daughter has epilepsy because we worried it might be a tumour. 
I think animals allow you to forget your troubles and am glad I had my babes before it all started. I wonder how people without that kind of release cope.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

FredaH said:


> Thank you cwebster, that's just life isn't it and we are so glad my daughter has epilepsy because we worried it might be a tumour.
> *I think animals allow you to forget your troubles and am glad I had my babes before it all started. I wonder how people without that kind of release cope.*





The Good Lord put them in your life when you needed them. 
And I don't think it's silly that putting up new perches excites you. I love doing things like that in the loft. Anything that is an improvement, or something that makes getting around easier for the handicapped birds always excites me. You are right in that it gives you something to focus on rather than your problems.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Freda, I'm so sorry to hear about your difficult period but I'm glad to know that your daughter has not a tumor as you feared. If you want to talk or need anything else I'm here.

What you said about pigeons or better about animals is so true. They really help us a lot with their love and friendship. 

What a lovely family: the sweet Riley and his attentive mum and dad! They are all so beautiful!


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

Thank you Colombina that’s so sweet of you - and thank you Jay also. 
My babes give me so much and I’m so grateful to them for that. They make me laugh plenty too. Every night after lights out the two brothers, Gabriel and Gideon share the favourite perch and every night they have a short spell of wing slapping so mama here has to go in, get up the step ladder and tell them to behave. They don’t half answer me back BUT they do settle at either end of the perch. It’s like a ritual, I close the door and wait and sure enough they start, lol. It’s like they know I have to get involved before they behave - I’ll miss that when they go outside and all the other little funny/naughty things they do. I may have to build just a flight outside and bring them in in the evening - either that or move out with them, ha ha.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

That's cute about they won't behave till you come back in. Maybe they do that just to get you back in there. We built our loft off the back of the house, and you can look through a back window right into the loft. Actually, they are large windows and you can step through the window into the loft. I don't miss much that way. You can watch them and they don't even know it. LOL. You'd love it!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Here is the back window


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

That's a great plan Jay and even more so that you can enter the loft from the house. It also looks like it's kinda cozy attached to the house with all that snow outside. Yep I'd like that very much.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I did it that way so that I could hide the loft under the upstairs deck. Town would probably give me flack about the birds. But it worked out kind of handy. I can get out there during a blizzard. And have! LOL.

I like it because if there is something going on, you how how they stop when you walk in. But I can spy on them and so it doesn't interfere with what they're doing. I know if someone if bullying the others. I can also turn off the bright light from inside, and bought one of those connections you plug in, in the loft, and plug a dim light into it. The switch you can just set on a table or hang on the wall inside. No wiring. Like those door bells you can buy. So I look to see if everyone is on their perch, or in the wrong box. Then I can just turn on the 15 watt from inside and turn off the bright light. This lets them know that it's time to get to your box or perch. A little while later, I turn off the 15 watt..............nite nite!


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

Sounds perfect Jay and I know exactly what you mean about naughty behaviour stopping as soon as they see you, they really are so crafty. 
Tonight I hung a dividing flannel from the ceiling above the 'favourite perch' so Gabrielle doesn't give Gideon his nightly routine of flak - and it's worked a treat, lol. In fact I just took my son upstairs to show him the two boys sleeping either side and no quarrelling tonight. 
It's really odd to me how different Gideon is being, he's usually the tough guy between him and Gabe but since the chick has hatched the tables have turned - is it because he's raising a chick and can't afford to get into a fight because of potential injury I wondered? The real tough guy is the little tumbler male Gandalf - he's confident with his hen and never chases her back to the nest but instead goes for any male that may approach her. He's small and stocky and won't take bull from no one, including me when I'm cleaning the cage. He makes me laugh on how he will go after any of them if they ruffle his feathers. This evening I let Cherry stay out while Gandalf was out, I don't usually have them both out together because of worrying Cherry may make the mistake of entering his cage and all hell will break loose but now I'm just as confused as ever because Gandalf has been dancing to Cherry - so just as I'd decided she was a boy he's made me think she's a girl, lol. Still waiting on the test results and it's killing me, impatient that I am!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes, they don't like to share a shelf. Sometimes I just divide a shelf with a wooden wall in the center. Works great. I have had to put dividers like that between nest boxes if the males are ornery toward each other. Thank God most are nice to their neighbors, but every now and then you get 2 that are just not going to get along. Each one has their own personality.
I'm waiting impatiently for the DNA results for your birds also.


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

Oh Jay I’m over the moon - I have a pair - yippee! 
Cherry chick is a girl and little Riley a boy. At last something’s gone right this year. I’m made up.


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## darlashay (Sep 2, 2017)

I have not been on the site for a while, so I am just hearing about your new baby, Freda. Congratulations! What cute names you have for all of them. I love the G names. We had a Gabriel (cat) around whom our universe revolved for all the years of his long, happy life, so that name is special to me. Your bird family is adorable. I am sorry to hear about your trials as well. I am glad you have your bird friends for comfort. I know I would not know what to do without my fur babies. And I have become so fond of these pigeons. Wishing you well with little Riley and the whole family.


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

Thank you darlashay, bless them we have a massive fireworks display nearby for Guy Fawkes night tomorrow and the babes aren't panicking (window closed and roller and Venetian blinds down) but they've not roosted yet and it's 8.15pm - I got back from shopping a while ago and bought them some linseed and sesame seeds, given each a handful to calm their nerves, lol and the little cuties are all tucking in. Radio on loud for the dogs and they're sleeping with full bellies too. 
I feel sorry for the wild birds though, some of the fireworks these days sound like bombs. 

Riley is tucked under mama and sound asleep.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You take good care of them. They sound as though they are all cozied up for the evening.


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

It's all quiet now and babes light is off, no sounds coming from their room - until daybreak. Was so happy with the results today so I put up more perches as a thank you but only Cherry and Olive are using them, all the others are too scared, lol. Such babies!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

OH FREDA! I hadn't seen where you posted the results! I missed that. Until you just mentioned that you got the results today. I went back and looked. Oh..............I'm soooooooooo happy for you. Congratulations. And you even named them well for their genders! Talk about a pre-arrainged pairing!


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

FredaH, i agree, congrats!


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

Ha ha Jay I thought you hadn't and yes what a fantastic result. My little Cherry chick had us all guessing because of her extreme dancing and cooing, she will be so happy when she meets her handsome partner in a couple of weeks time and she's not aggressive to the other birds either so she should be perfect for a little boy. Treats all round yesterday, more perches and special seeds to celebrate. 

Thanks cwebster, my little family complete - must avoid any more accidents now.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes.............remember the more pairs you have the easier it is to miss an egg.


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

I am going to be extra vigilant from now on Jay because I don't want to ruin the good luck I've had. 
Little Riley is getting so big already and I've missed the time of fitting a closed ring I had for him which corresponds to the others and his DNA cert, so I've had to order split rings starting with his number - which means I'll have four spare rings BUT I don't intend to be using them, lol. 
He's so cute and when I clean the cage in the morning now he initially rears up at me (learned that from mama) but once I have him in my hands and talk to him he's fine and not at all bothered - mum and dad sit on top of the cage while I hold him and I chat to them telling them what a beautiful son they have. They're so sweet and just sit there looking straight at me, I'm sure they understand I'm just cleaning out the nest and their baby is safe with me. 
He's got lots of feathers coming through now and just one patch of grey on the base of his tail, I'll post some pics tomorrow because I've been sidetracked by fussing with him and his parents and forget to take my phone with me. 
I'm loving this privileged experience.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I would handle him a lot so that he isn't responding to you that way. Those are the ones who are more difficult to keep tame. The tamer the parents, the tamer the babies. When I have babies, I hand feed peanuts and seed to the parents at the box, so the babies see me as friend and not foe. But if one of the parents isn't friendly and acts like that, then I try to do it when that parent isn't there. Or I remove them while I treat the babies and other parent. The mom is teaching them not to trust you, and that is a pain to over come later on. Just what I have learned over the years.


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

Thanks Jay and I thought it best to keep mama out of the picture today so, you know how she loves the bath salts  I got a bath tray out and stood the unopened tub of salts in it, mum and dad spent so much time trying to figure out how to get to the salts that I had plenty of time with Riley to clean out his nest, weigh him and have a chat. There were mum and dad still at the tub even after I put him back, lol.

Think there's some turkey in this kid somewhere. 










Beautiful little thing.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Oh Freda..............that's funny! 
What kind of grit do they get?
Ya know, he does look kind of like a baby turkey, doesn't he? Long neck. So cute. All white.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Adorable little guy!


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

Versele Laga Neo Grit with redstone Jay, it’s what I’ve always used. Have a look at the ingredients and see if you think anything’s missing that they need. Can’t have them going without.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I'm sure your grit is fine Freda. Sometimes I buy the pick stones that they sell at many pigeon supply places. They have extra minerals and such in them. You can put them in the loft as is, or crumble them up and mix in with the grit or in another dish. I sometimes mix it in with the grit. There is a mineral Grit Bucket they just love, but haven't bought it in a while as it isn't cheap and the shipping is half as much as the bucket of mineral grit to bring it here. They just like the salt, so are going after that. Don't think your birds are lacking anything.


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

Thanks Jay good to know they're just being porkers, should have known. I did buy a pickstone once and the wouldn't go near it, they were all scared but they were only young at the time - that was Gully, Gabe and Gids. 
I'll get a couple and crumble like you said because it can't hurt to add a little extra.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

FredaH said:


> Thanks Jay good to know they're just being porkers, should have known. I did buy a pickstone once and the wouldn't go near it, they were all scared but they were only young at the time - that was Gully, Gabe and Gids.
> I'll get a couple and crumble like you said because it can't hurt to add a little extra.


By crumbling it up and can be mixed with the grit, they they will know what the heck it is. A lot harder for them to get off a brick of it. Mine like it bite sized. The really hard pieces that don't break up, I bang them with something............they break!


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

Two weeks old and even more adorable - as are mum and dad.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Growing fast isn't he? They are so cute at that age.


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

He's my little special Jay, I wanted these two to have a chick for ages and in getting mum away from him, as you suggested, before I touch him he's become so much tamer. I love him dearly - even though he's only got one grey slodge on him. 

My little treasure. <3
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hoxW8JOTof8&feature=youtu.be


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Darling little guy!


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## darlashay (Sep 2, 2017)

He's a cutie, Freda!


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## Howl (Nov 9, 2017)

He's so cute and adorable ^^


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

He's just over three weeks old and started flying today, flying quite high for his first flights too. He's becoming such a handsome young chap and sports at least some colouring from his dad, lol.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

He certainly grew into a handsome bird!


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