# RR with a bonus



## Chocolate Head (May 18, 2009)

I've been dying for some rr's so I can try to make yellows. I paired a set of birds that each had a rr parent. The first round yielded the bird you see in the pic, kind of dunn or yellow under tones, and a charcoal slate kind of bird. To my surprise the second round gave me two rr's, but one has a tail that is half white. Kind of a bad pic of the tail. I can take another if it matters. Check it out. 

I am unsure if I should stock them or break them and stock them until I breed them. I'm not a big fan of prisoners, but I finally got what I wanted. Any thoughts?


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

I would keep these ones in and fly the next ones, JMO though
Looks like you have a silver there, Are either of these birds dilute? If not the cockbird carries dilute atleast. That means you will get some recessive yellow hens off this pair. The rec red has picked up some sort of pied gene by the look of it.
I would be tempted to pluck the coloured tail feathers and turn the tail white but I feel too mean. Some people are into that sort of thing.


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

I agree that the first bird (with the yellow undertones) is probably a dilute blue bar. A yellowish crop crescent is common in dilutes (esp. blues). Was she born with short down?

White feathers in RR homers is fairly common, though it probably is not caused by a pied gene, but more related to whiteside/rosewing. The white may or may not increase with age, and may show up on the wing. I have never been able to breed a RR that is solid, (but I also haven't tried very hard either). I have bred some beautiful rosewings though.

I would say it it up to you whether or not to fly your birds. I personally have lost 2 dilute browns due while trying to trap traing them, due to them getting spooked on two separate occasions. Just plain bad luck. I have had similar bad luck with ash-red homozygous grizzles, but never had any bad luck with birds I did not spend 3 years' worth of effort breeding! Like blue check indigo's, which make up half my loft at the moment ('cause I just cannot seem to loose them). I don't even bother trap training these indigos I just chuck the fledgelings out, and they figure the trap out themselves within a day or two.

The third dilute brown hen, I have decided to keep prisoner, at least untill I have had a chance to breed her. I also do not like keeping prisoners, even though the birds in question probably do not mind, it just makes life harder, since you have to be more aware of possible escapees. But once again, the question of whether to fly them or not really has no correct answer.

By the way, I also like the white bird in the pictures, looks like a homozygous grizzle blue with white flights, or is it something else?


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## Chocolate Head (May 18, 2009)

NZ, the mother is absolutely a dilute and the father is a slate. 

Rudolp- that grizzle actually has some very light red or or chocolate. Her dad is a grizzle and has more of the chocolate. Maybe she will molt out darker. I've got a lot of grizzles this year and will try to post pics of them b/c one in particular is nothing like I've seen.

I raced for a season, but had to get out b/c of family responsibilities. I love having my birds and love to watch them fly. I'm new to genetics, but trying to learn and loving it! I'm heavily leaning toward stocking them for selfish reasons. I've been wanting rr's and yellows for a long time and finally have the rr's, which are a means to the yellows if the parents don't deliver. I've split the parents until the fall b/c of heat and mosquitoes. Alrready thinking about some other projects!!!


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

So if the hen is dilute and you have produced a dilute then the cock also carries this gene, Therefore you should get rec red and rec yellow cocks and hens from the pair

1 in 4 will be recessive red and half of those should be dilute. Also all the cocks from this pair will carry dilute. 

The blue bar dilute you have produced here also looks smoky maybe.. slate in otherwords.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Pretty bird. Silver bar, sooty, and smokey which helps the RR show through and give it those "yellow undertones" (which shows as bronze on intense birds).


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## Chocolate Head (May 18, 2009)

I have a black spread cock, a chocolate check cock, an almost all white trenton with a small amount of red ticking (red grizzle), and an ash red cock, aside from the slate she is bred to. The white trenton seems to throw a lot of khaki birds. Will any of those do anything special if bred to the hen? I also have a bronze, but I don't know the sex yet.

Can I assume the white trenton bred to one of the rr's will produce a yellow? Or possibly the trenton bred straight to the mother will produce a yellow? Then with the yellows or rr's breed to the black spread for all yellow or rr?

Just tyring to weigh out my options. I also have all kind of grizzles and the standard bb and checks.


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## sev3ns0uls (Jul 2, 2011)

hey i got a young grizzle just like your. can you put up a pix of the grizzle on those two photos and ill post up mine and see if they are similar. 

my has the same tail color feather and closely marking on the wings and feather flights as well.
one little distinction is that my has a little check on her back.


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## Chocolate Head (May 18, 2009)

I will post pics of the grizzle. Sounds like they are very close. I've been working a lot of hours it may take a few days.


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## sev3ns0uls (Jul 2, 2011)

here is mine. (by the way, she will have double eye: one pearl and the other one bull eye)










here is her and her nest mate. a red grizzle(its moulting and probably turn darker)


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## sev3ns0uls (Jul 2, 2011)

here is her wing spam. sry it wasnt the best picture taken.










she has a little mark of checker on her back. got it from papa.










here is her parents.


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

That grizzle is very interesting. She shows so little grizzling, but is only het. grizzle. I assume there is a lot of pied on her to cause such a light bird. The tail is also a very strange phenotype for grizzle, it almost looks like there is a sudden change from light to the fully colored tips, while grizzle usually has a much more gradual gradient of color change.

A very good looking bird, and very unique I think. I love the type of homer you breed, with nice long beaks and necks that aren't overly thick and stumpy.


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## sev3ns0uls (Jul 2, 2011)

rudolph.est said:


> That grizzle is very interesting. She shows so little grizzling, but is only het. grizzle. I assume there is a lot of pied on her to cause such a light bird. The tail is also a very strange phenotype for grizzle, it almost looks like there is a sudden change from light to the fully colored tips, while grizzle usually has a much more gradual gradient of color change.
> 
> A very good looking bird, and very unique I think. I love the type of homer you breed, with nice long beaks and necks that aren't overly thick and stumpy.


lolz are you referring to mine hen grizzle or Chocolate Head's grizzle?


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

rudolph.est said:


> That grizzle is very interesting. She shows so little grizzling, but is only het. grizzle. I assume there is a lot of pied on her to cause such a light bird. The tail is also a very strange phenotype for grizzle, it almost looks like there is a sudden change from light to the fully colored tips, while grizzle usually has a much more gradual gradient of color change.
> 
> A very good looking bird, and very unique I think. I love the type of homer you breed, with nice long beaks and necks that aren't overly thick and stumpy.


Could be piedbald but there is also a white grizzle gene which gives you light birds like those and stork marks in the het form and white birds in the homozygous form. Also the dramatic change from white to color in the tail is probably undergrizzle.


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

sev3ns0uls said:


> lolz are you referring to mine hen grizzle or Chocolate Head's grizzle?


I was refering to yours. I hadn't seen a picture of Chocolate Head's yet.


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

MaryOfExeter said:


> Could be piedbald but there is also a white grizzle gene which gives you light birds like those and stork marks in the het form and white birds in the homozygous form. Also the dramatic change from white to color in the tail is probably undergrizzle.


I had forgotten about white grizzle. I agree that is probably to blame here.

I've never seen a dramatic change in the tail like that. Now I want to breed my grizzles to my undergrizzles, just to see the result. My undergrizzles have so far only shown a gradual colour change in the tail, nothing as dramatic as this.


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