# Shame Of Pennsylvania



## Lilito54 (Aug 24, 2008)

Thanks to SHARK for this exposure of savage sadism and thanks to the 
New York Bird Club for passing it on. For those of us who deeply care 
about wild birds, most specially our brilliant Feral Rock Pigeon, the 
actions of these people are beyond barbaric and diabolic. 

http://www.sharkonline.org/indexbirdshoots.mv


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Not to mention, they are teaching their children the same (for fun and sport?) , it sets the standards of degradation of society to a whole new low.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Makes me physically ill and incredibly sad.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

I couldn't get past the first few seconds of the first video. Totally disgusting........shame on our human race.


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## Max1170 (Jun 13, 2007)

My heart is pumping out of my chest with anger! Where does this take place in Pennsylvania?


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## silverbranch (Jul 16, 2008)

I have no idea. I lived the first 18 years of my life in rural Pennsylvania, my Dad was an avid hunter and "gun nut", and I still own a home there. I have NEVER seen or heard of anything like this. As I child we would go to "turkey shoots" all the time, and in fact I even won one. But the turkey was the prize, not what we were shooting at. It was almost a game of chance more than target shooting, they'd take a square pieces of wood 3 or 4 inches across and draw an X on them. Then people would shoot at them with shotguns. The person who got a pellet closest to the center of the X won the frozen turkey. But the term "turkey shoot" sounds pretty bad to someone who didn't know what it was about.

Anyway, I wish they'd have been a little more specific about where and when as I guess I'm a little aggravated at the insinuation that the entire state of Pennsylvania is blasting pigeons for fun.


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## Lilito54 (Aug 24, 2008)

These shootings have been going on for a long time, they are held at private shooting clubs in PA. Most of the members are also members of the NRA.
Look at these articles from the Humane Society of the US.
http://www.hsus.org/wildlife_abuse/news/unmasking_live_pigeon_shoots.html


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## Ivor (May 12, 2008)

I can't believe how cruel they are with animals, I couldn't even watch the videos, I didn't hear about any other state doing such a thing, is hard to believe that normal people or normal children can do this, that make me sick.


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## Max1170 (Jun 13, 2007)

Lilito54 said:


> These shootings have been going on for a long time, they are held at private shooting clubs in PA. Most of the members are also members of the NRA.
> Look at these articles from the Humane Society of the US.
> http://www.hsus.org/wildlife_abuse/news/unmasking_live_pigeon_shoots.html



NRA, I am a member of the NRA and if I find out that the NRA is involved It will be the last for me.. I am going to write a letter and find more out!

Max


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## Pegasus (Feb 6, 2007)

Lovebirds said:


> ...shame on our human race.



And they call pigeons; rats with wings and I'm wondering who got a tiny brain now...

Okay, I'm only going to state my personal opinion on how people act when they are out in the place where there's nothing to do but crappy things and involving animals that are so innocent...Why can't this PEOPLE do something productive instead of shooting animals or killing them... They are going to wonder why younger generations do these things in schools or public places...Next thing we know, sports will be; "who can shoot more human head in the wilderness" since animals will be in extinction...I apologize to others if my statement is so offensive...


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

These people are sick. And the sad thing is that they are infecting the next generation. And we are supposed to be the more intelligent. The one with feelings for another of Gods creatures. Sad that the state of Pa. allows for this disgusting display. Imagine someone so lacking in conscience, or in any kind of caring of how much another feeling creature suffers. Now imagine putting many of these people all together to enjoy tormenting and torturing animals. How disgusting and horrifying is that thought? The state of Pa. should be ashamed of itself, as am I that these individuals are part of the human race.


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## Cyn79 (Apr 10, 2006)

Are you freakin' kindin' ME! What the hell is wrong with these people? That is SICK!!! I'm not against hunting but that is just cruel. But you don't toture birds for some target practice!!! CRUEL CRUEL and then to teach children it is okay to torture to these animals!!!! Not Right!!!


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Lilito54 said:


> Thanks to SHARK for this exposure of savage sadism and thanks to the
> New York Bird Club for passing it on. For those of us who deeply care
> about wild birds, most specially our brilliant Feral Rock Pigeon, the
> actions of these people are beyond barbaric and diabolic.
> ...


This footage is of course very graphic and designed to get a response out of you in terms of a donation. To the best of my knowlege, this is very old footage from events of long ago. Public outrage from events such as the "Higgins Pigeon Shoot", caused so much outrage that no such event has been held since. 

This site leads one to think that these events still occur, and that the site was some how involved in putting an end to such practices. I suspect that the operator simply has collected this footage and now hopes to profit from it, by your donations. 

My only suggestion is "Donator Beware". Now if someone has advance information of such an event to take place, then that information would be worth something, as local news organizations and the Pa. SPCA would like to know about it. Simply collecting old news footage of such events and then trying to profit from it, may or may not be something that one should support.

Some of this footage was carried on local news channels, the sourse may have been undercover SPCA agents, and hopefully such events are now only part of a sad history.


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## Lilito54 (Aug 24, 2008)

*This shameful "sport" still exists in PA*

The fact that they ask for donations does not mean these barbarities have stopped, all animal advocates organizations or groups (ie. Peta, Humane Society of the United States, ASPCA, IDA) ask for donations. 
I live in New York City and here we are very aware of pigeon netters and where they take the pigeons: Mostly private shooting clubs in PA. 
The netters get from 3 to 10 US Dollars for each pigeon they take there.
If you want more information, you can look into the following (very creditable) sites: 

http://www.hsus.org/press_and_publi..._exposing_cruelty_of_pigeon_shoot_072808.html

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2008/07/27/Pigeon_vendor_linked_to_bird_shootouts/UPI-58301217174543/

http://www.nypost.com/seven/07272008/news/regionalnews/they_shoot_pigeons__dont_they__121825.htm

http://naturecalendar.wordpress.com/2008/07/02/pigeon-netter-netted/

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/08/07/a-bizarre-pigeon-abduction-in-chinatown/#comment-421934


"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
 --HERBERT SPENCER


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Lilito54 said:


> The fact that they ask for donations does not mean these barbarities have stopped, all animal advocates organizations or groups (ie. Peta, Humane Society of the United States, ASPCA, IDA) ask for donations.
> I live in New York City and here we are very aware of pigeon netters and where they take the pigeons: Mostly private shooting clubs in PA.
> The netters get from 3 to 10 US Dollars for each pigeon they take there.
> If you want more information, you can look into the following (very creditable) sites....


 The fact that some person or group asks for donations, does not mean that live bird shoots still exist either. Some groups you mention are far from creditable.

I live right here in Pa., and we are very aware that many of our pigeons are shipped to NYC to be eaten !!

I also belong to a so called "Gun Club"...here in Pa. all I am asking, is give me a name and location of one of these shooting clubs where they pay $3 to $10 per pigeon to shoot at !? 

The dirty little secret is, they are being eaten, not shot and thrown away !

All I have seen up to this point on the sites you listed, are old historic film footage and groups asking for money to help stop the killing. When under Pa. Law, these events are already illegal. You say these are creditable sites, just wondering how you draw that conclusion ? From what I have seen, they are being intellectually dishonest and attempting to profit from old shocking film footage.

Throw up a cheap web site, put up some old shocking file footage...and while the people are still in shock, hopefully collect $10 or $20from them while they are still in tears. Do this a few hundred times a week, and you have a nice little second income. Sorry, I don't buy it, and I am offended that this lie of "Shooting Clubs in Pa." is being repeated without any evidence. We effectly put this practice out of business in this state years ago, and people and groups mostly outside the state, are still trying to make money from it.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> The fact that some person or group asks for donations, does not mean that live bird shoots still exist either. Some groups you mention are far from creditable.
> 
> I live right here in Pa., and we are very aware that many of our pigeons are shipped to NYC to be eaten !!
> 
> ...


http://www.hsus.org/press_and_publi..._exposing_cruelty_of_pigeon_shoot_072808.html
Warren, there is a media contact on the link above. It would be so great if you could call the Humane Society of the United States and get to the bottom of this once and for all. My feeling is that the HSUS has a lot to do without making things up, especially things that have to do with cruelty toward pigeons, but I could be wrong. There just isn't that much interest.
In a resent book about pigeons, I do seem to recall the author did attend one of those shoots in your state and describes it in some detail in his book. I didn't have the stomach to read it all the way through but the time frame must have been in 2004-2005.[ Sorry I don't have the name of the book or author but I have loaned it out and am not in the mood to google the exact title.]


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Charis said:


> http://www.hsus.org/press_and_publi..._exposing_cruelty_of_pigeon_shoot_072808.html
> Warren, there is a media contact on the link above. It would be so great if you could call the Humane Society of the United States and get to the bottom of this once and for all. My feeling is that the HSUS has a lot to do without making things up, especially things that have to do with cruelty toward pigeons, but I could be wrong. There just isn't that much interest.
> 
> * *In a resent book about pigeons*, *I do seem to recall the author did attend one of those shoots in your state *and describes it in some detail in his book. I didn't have the stomach to read it all the way through but the time frame must have been in 2004-2005.
> ** [ *Sorry I don't have the name of the book or author* but I have loaned it out and am not in the mood to google the exact title.]


* Yes it was PA. Apparently there are or were several PA gun clubs enjoying this 'sport'. 

** *Book title*: Pigeons, The Facinating Saga of the World's Most Revered and Reviled Bird.
*Author*: Andrew D. Blechman

Cindy


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Charis said:


> http://www.hsus.org/press_and_publi..._exposing_cruelty_of_pigeon_shoot_072808.html
> Warren, there is a media contact on the link above. It would be so great if you could call the Humane Society of the United States and get to the bottom of this once and for all. My feeling is that the HSUS has a lot to do without making things up, especially things that have to do with cruelty toward pigeons, but I could be wrong. There just isn't that much interest.
> In a resent book about pigeons, I do seem to recall the author did attend one of those shoots in your state and describes it in some detail in his book. I didn't have the stomach to read it all the way through but the time frame must have been in 2004-2005.[ Sorry I don't have the name of the book or author but I have loaned it out and am not in the mood to google the exact title.]


I am sorry in advance if I am mistaken. But, August has come and gone, and I suspect that no one was able to collect on any $2500 reward. Don't know how some event involving thousands of pigeons and people could take place, and no one knows anything about it. 

The last "live shoot" I am aware of, which was a "Turkey Shoot" got the public and media in one heck of an uproar, along with the SPCA and fines !
There has been such negative publicy from these events, that no one has any interest in them. 

I also suspect that the HSUS had no real expectation of ever paying out any kind of a reward. I suspect they did so to generate publicity for themselves and their cause. If they had information to the contrary then all they had to do was pick up the phone to the Pa. SPCA and they could have sent out any number of under cover operatives. Heck as a gun toting target shooter I would go myself, but with the expectation of getting arrested myself, as I would want to insure that the media and the police were called to make sure it all shows up on the 11 o'clock news. 

Get all fired up if it makes you feel better....but if it is still happening, it must be one of the best kept secrets in Pa.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> I am sorry in advance if I am mistaken. But, August has come and gone, and I suspect that no one was able to collect on any $2500 reward. Don't know how some event involving thousands of pigeons and people could take place, and no one knows anything about it.
> 
> The last "live shoot" I am aware of, which was a "Turkey Shoot" got the public and media in one heck of an uproar, along with the SPCA and fines !
> There has been such negative publicy from these events, that no one has any interest in them.
> ...


I really think you are incorrect on this one but you have that right. Do what you can to prove me wrong.

Cindy, Thanks for posting the title and author of the book I was referring to.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Sounds like an interesting book. Can you still get it?


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Charis said:


> I really think you are incorrect on this one but you have that right. Do what you can to prove me wrong.


Well....one would think, that everyone would hope that I am indeed correct. There is no way to "prove" that you are wrong. It's like saying, prove that we have not been visited by UFO's and that aliens do not live among us.

I of course hope that what I am saying is correct. I do hope that no one is able to in fact "Prove Me Wrong". Perhaps the HSUS, if they are serious, should place their offer of a reward in such publications as "Guns & Ammo" or "Field and Stream" where they may auctually be seen by members of the sportsmen clubs around the country. 

My only real point in all of this, is that it is in the vested interest of some of these groups like HSUS to portray the image that these events are in fact taking place today, in order to justify their exsistance, and keep those donations rolling in. 

And I am a little taken back from the title of this thread, which would suggest that pigeon fanciers such as myself, who reside in this state, simply have our heads in the sand, and have done nothing to stop these things in the past. While people and groups from places like NYC, point their fingers at us, saying that they are somehow in a better position to know what is going on.

Some of us here in Pa. have followed the money and birds which have been sold in various "Farmers Markets', to see if these birds do in fact end up at pigeon shoots. What we found, was rather then end up in pigeon shoots, they end up on..(for lack of a politically correct term) the dinner tables in ethnic neighborhoods in places like NYC ! 

In any given week, I can take you to one of these "Farmers Markets" where hundreds of pigeons are sold every week. There is no way the sheer numbers of these birds are ending up any where other then I have stated. Not that this should really make any of us feel much better. 

If this situation should change, I will do everything in my power to bring such an event to the attention of the whole pigeon world, as well as the public and law enforcement. And make it cost such operators very dearly.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Jay3 said:


> Sounds like an interesting book. Can you still get it?


i think I saw it on amazon.com...


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Thanks. I just ordered it.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> I also belong to a so called "Gun Club"...here in Pa.
> all I am asking, is
> *give me a name and location of one of these shooting clubs where they pay $3 to $10 per pigeon to shoot at !? *


Don Baily of the Strausstown Rod and Gun Club.

This is a quote from Andrew, once he was finally accepted into the club. Page 92 in the book.
"The club charges about $5.00 a pigeon."

Cindy


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

*Press Release from NRA*

Attention Pennsylvania Hunters: Help Stop the Attack on Our Hunting Heritage! 

Tuesday, July 01, 2008 

Please Contact Your State Representative Today! 

As we have reported, amendments filed by State Representative Daylin Leach (D-149) to Senate Bill 151 and House Bill 1543 could be considered by the House at ANY MOMENT. Simply stated, this legislation would criminalize and ban organized pigeon shoots in Pennsylvania by amending Title 18 ("Crimes and Offenses") of the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes.

Pigeon shooting is an historic and legitimate activity steeped in tradition with many participants throughout the Commonwealth and around the world. Participants are law-abiding, ethical shooting enthusiasts, hunters, and sportsmen who would not tolerate an activity that would constitute cruelty to animals. 


Pigeon shoots have been part of Pennsylvania’s storied hunting heritage for over one hundred years. Now, national “animal rights” extremist groups, led by the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS), have organized and funded efforts in Pennsylvania and around the country to ban this longstanding traditional shooting sport.


These zealots have set their sights on banning all hunting species by species throughout the United States, not just in Pennsylvania. Today, anti-hunting extremists are focusing on pigeon shooting, tomorrow it will be deer or turkey hunting. The CEO of HSUS, Wayne Pacelle, has admitted, “If we could shut down all sport hunting in a moment, we would.” Pacelle has even said, "We are going to use the ballot box and the democratic process to stop all hunting in the United States... We will take it species by species until all hunting is stopped..." 


Please contact your State Representative IMMEDIATELY and respectfully ask him or her to protect Pennsylvania’s rich hunting tradition by opposing Representative Leach’s amendments. Contact information for your State Representative can be found here.










Pennsylvania Legislature 


Pennsylvania Department of Conservation and Natural Resources 





{I did remove some web page links that have to do with our upcoming Presidential election has I found them to be inappropriate. So sorry for the big gap here.]
































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## Lilito54 (Aug 24, 2008)

Smithfamilyloft, my original posting was not directed to people like you, pigeon fanciers that appreciate and respect their birds. In fact it was not directed to any group or person in particular, I was simply passing on what I consider important information to people that deeply care about pigeons and birds in general.

I very much doubt that groups or any person here in NYC:
_"would suggest that pigeon fanciers such as myself, who reside in this state, simply have our heads in the sand, and have done nothing to stop these things in the past. While people and groups from places like NYC, point their fingers at us, saying that they are somehow in a better position to know what is going on."_

I certainly doubt that clubs that practice illegal pigeon shoots (massacres) will share that information with any pigeon fancier as yourself.

Also, if you look carefully at the dates of the articles I linked to on my previous posting, they are very recent, as late as August 28,2008. It is known everywhere that Labor Day Weekend is the bloodiest of all, three days of shooting, brutality and bloodshed. 
This "sportsmen" get drunk and shoot at disoriented, confused, starving feral Rock Pigeons that come out of a box, from darkness, desperate to escape death.

We are also aware of the "Farmer's Markets" and their severe mistreatment and abuse of live poultry, but New Yorkers that eat pigeons do not have to go to PA to buy them, they simply go to China Town. I would suggest to anybody that likes oriental food and cares about birds, not to order any poultry dishes, it might be feral pigeon.

The Humane Society of The United States, as somebody pointed out, is very busy with all kinds of animal abuse to make this things up, it does not make sense, not to collect a$10 donation. And somebody did report a pigeon netter and got the $ 2,500 reward. It was in one of the links I sent to you, here it is again:
http://naturecalendar.wordpress.com/2008/07/02/pigeon-netter-netted/

The reports go to the US Department of Environmental Conservation, Officer Joseph Pane @ 718-842-4941. So it is very unlikely that the United States Department of Environmental Conservation would be involved in discrediting all the citizens of the great state of Pennsylvania.
I am inserting the latest flyer from the Humane Society, it is dated August 2008. Last month, I handed them out to people that work outdors like, UPS, Doe Fund Workers, Fedex, mailmen, etc. 
http://www.humanesociety.org/web-files/PDF/hunting/pigeonshootflyer.pdf
Peace


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

*Please...tell me it's not true....*

Oh gee....

Tell me it's not true.......

I guess the only thing I was really right about...is they are not "Public"..bring your camera and watch us kill stuff....kind of events.

http://readingeagle.com/article.aspx?id=101326

Sorry...so sorry......can't believe...or did not want to believe...that the moron's would dare hold another one.

Is it legal in Pa. to shoot a pigeon shooter ? Can we hold a pigeon shooter shoot ? Maybe announce a big pigeon shoot, with free beer and the like, and when the pigeon shooter's show up...we round them up and then charge people $5 to take a shot at them. 

I guess I just did not want to believe it.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Warren, You wrote this...
"If this situation should change, I will do everything in my power to bring such an event to the attention of the whole pigeon world, as well as the public and law enforcement. And make it cost such operators very dearly."

You are there...it's your state. Please follow through on your above statement and let us know what we can do to help.


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

they still have them, SHARK was just up there to film it again, and some of them are public still.
SHARK is awesome, they were at the AR conference and i was so excited to see the pigeons represented there.....


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Oh gee....
> 
> 
> Is it legal in Pa. to shoot a pigeon shooter ? Can we hold a pigeon shooter shoot ? Maybe announce a big pigeon shoot, with free beer and the like, and when the pigeon shooter's show up...we round them up and then charge people $5 to take a shot at them.


I think this would be a great idea. These morons call themselves hunters and sportsmen. They say they wouldn't be involved in something that was cruelty to animals. I guess rounding them up, and shoving them in boxes, then releasing a bunch of disoriented, confused birds, who are petrified and trying to escape with their life, only to be murdered pointlessly, by these great sportsmen, is Pa.'s idea of sport or hunting. It doesn't take much to make these idiots feel like be brave men does it? I agree Warren, let's hold a pigeon shooters shoot! And I want the first shot!


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

There are so many lost racing pigeons that have gotten lost in a race or toss, I think we need to add this type of unsportsman like activity to the list of what or why your pigeon did not come back home...This possiblity is heart wrenching when you have bred and trained and fed and hoped for your bird. I know this may sound harsh but I think I rather my bird parish from a hawk. At least that is natures way. I know the ferals desreve better also, but unfortunately they are considerd a nusisance speicies which have no voice from most...so called sportsman should see the light....I know my father rest his soul, would have, and he was the best sportsman I know.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Charis said:


> Warren, You wrote this...
> "If this situation should change, I will do everything in my power to bring such an event to the attention of the whole pigeon world, as well as the public and law enforcement. And make it cost such operators very dearly."
> 
> You are there...it's your state. Please follow through on your above statement and let us know what we can do to help.


 I am now so ashamed of my state, and the fact this is still going on in my own back yard !! 

I apoligise to everyone for thinking this was a bunch of people trying to make a buck over something that was closed down years ago. I ASSumed that when the Higgens shoot was closed down, that it was the end to this sick stuff. 

The really sad thing about all this, is that many pigeon fanciers are very cool, or at best luke warm about helping to stop this crap ! We may very well find more support from the public at large, and there is something wrong about that fact. I am so sick about this....a bird recently returned home days after a race with some netting attached. God only knows how many of my own birds may have suffered such a fate.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Warren...you are in a position to make a difference by the stand you make and who you talk to about it. As far as other pigeon fanciers, you just don't know if they will get behind you on this one until you ask them to. So...GO FOR IT!
I appreciate the apology.


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## Teresa (Jul 10, 2005)

*'Pigeons', by Andrew D. Blechman, 2006, Grove Press, N.Y.*

I have just finished reading this book (unputdownable!) and I urge everybody else to do the same. There are chapters on pigeon shoots and on eating pigeons which may upset some members, so use your discretion, but in the course of writing the book, the author became a strong advocate for pigeons.
The copyright date on the book is 2006, and the final comments are dated July 2007. So the information is pretty recent.

He says that the Hegins Labor Day pigeon shoots have finished, after 13 years of protests by activists, but pigeon shoots (in various states, not just Pennsylvania) still take place in private clubs for very large sums of money. And the birds aren't bought at markets, but obtained from 'commodities brokers' like Don Bailey, who obtain them from various sources, including poachers who net pigeons in parks and along race routes. Apparently there is a N.Y. underground organisation who have been filming this to hopefully use it in court to stop the poachings.
The author himself took part in one pigeon shoot, at the Strausstown Rod and Gun Club. His contact at the club, a Mr. Kee Bubbenmoyer, justifies his 'sport' by saying that pigeons are disease-carrying vermine, and he says of those he calls 'animalists' (here follows a direct quote from the book): "Their problem is that they subscribe to anthropomorphism. They think animals are people. Well, they're not. Animals have a different set of nervous systems. They feel pain differently. They don't possess this," he says, pointing to his brain. "I've seen pigeons, all shot up, get up and start pecking around for food. Now, if I broke your arm, would you be craving a lobster tail?"

Someone here is clearly lacking a nervous system and a brain, but it ain't the pigeons...


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## Lilito54 (Aug 24, 2008)

"_The author himself took part in one pigeon shoot, at the Strausstown Rod and Gun Club. His contact at the club, a Mr. Kee Bubbenmoyer, justifies his 'sport' by saying that pigeons are disease-carrying vermine...._"

Yes, the same old excuse to justify their barbaric behavior. The phrase "Rats with wings" was made up by a pedophile who married his own daughter (Woody Allen), he used it for in movie called Stardust Memories. 
Are pigeon fanciers (you know that "superior" species of pigeons) fear catching a disease from their birds?
I know you all know about the myths of disease in feral pigeons:

The most widespread misconception about urban pigeons is that they are carriers of disease. Pest control companies charge them with transmitting histoplasmosis, toxoplasmosis, psittacosis, cryptococcosis, salmonellosis, meningitis, tuberculosis, and encephalitis. 
The truth is that the vast majority of people are at little or no health risk from pigeons and probably have a greater chance of being struck by lightning than contracting a serious disease from pigeons.(3) In fact, a child attending school is many times more likely to get a disease from another child than from a pigeon. 
Of these diseases, histoplasmosis and cryptococcosis are the only ones that could be linked to large bird populations, even though pigeons themselves are not infected with and are not carriers of the diseases. These fungi occur naturally in soil. When bird droppings mix with the soil over a period of years, they can enrich the soil in a way that favors development of airborne spores, and people who live near sites where pigeons roost may be exposed. The symptoms of infection generally resemble a mild cold. People recover without medical intervention and develop a natural resistance against further infection. Much of the population has already been affected, developed an immunity, and never been aware of it.(4) Histoplasma fungus and infection are prevalent on intensive chicken farms. 
Salmonellosis and toxoplasmosis are more commonly contracted from undercooked, contaminated meat.(5) 
There is no evidence linking the other diseases to pigeons and, in fact, most of them are so common in nature, so rare in humans, or so mild in their symptoms.
Source PETA


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

*You're never going it alone...*

Hi. This may have been said already...apologies as I haven't read all of the thread since I have a hard time maintaining my temper and demeanor about stuff like this.

I would suggest doing a websearch for animal welfare organizations in your area and in your state. Get some contact e-mail addresses and shoot off some e-mails.

Advocating for our pigeon friends can sometimes feel very lonely...as if all of the weight rests on your shoulders only...but the fact is, many if not most animal welfare and anti-cruelty organizations (and there are literally TONS of 'em at all levels...local, state, national, world) take this sort of injustice very seriously.

My guess is you will get some responses, and some organizations and people willing to help you out or perhaps even connect you to the right folks. It is always good to have these sorta allies.

Best of luck...it goes w/o saying that we are all with you and will help however we can...


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## Lilito54 (Aug 24, 2008)

I would like to pass along an email I received last night from the HSUS. 
The Editorial from The Reading Eagle, newspaper from PA is right on target.
Hello, 

New York State Senator Liz Krueger (D-26) sent a letter to the Pennsylvania State Legislature advocating a ban on live pigeon shoots, highlighting the burden that demand for New York City pigeons as live targets places on New York law enforcement agencies. 

A Pennsylvania bill to ban live pigeon shoots is pending in the state legislature and is expected to be voted on this week. More info on the bill and issue is available at The Humane Society of the United States' website: http://www.humanesociety.org/wildlife_abuse/news/pennsylvania_bill_pigeon_shoots.html 

I've included our press release below as well as Senator Krueger's letter.

You may also be interested in an editorial The Reading Eagle - the hometown paper of where the pigeon shoots take place - wrote in support of the bill - http://www.readingeagle.com/blog.aspx?bid=4&id=17081&t=State-should-ban-liveanimal-shoots and a feature article in the NY Post on the issue: http://www.nypost.com/seven/07272008/news/regionalnews/they_shoot_pigeons__dont_they__121825.htm 

Best,

Patrick Kwan, New York State Director
The Humane Society of the United States
http://www.humanesociety.org 

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

New York Senator Urges Pennsylvania Legislature to Gun Down Pigeon Shoots

(Sept. 15, 2008)- New York State Senator Liz Krueger (D-26) sent a letter to the Pennsylvania State Legislature advocating a ban on live pigeon shoots, highlighting the burden that demand for New York City pigeons as live targets places on New York law enforcement agencies.

"I urge the Pennsylvania State Legislature to ban the cruel practice of live pigeon shoots," said Sen. Krueger. "If the demand for live birds to kill during Pennsylvania pigeon shoots were ended through legislation, these pigeon nettings would undoubtedly dramatically decline and most likely cease."

Recent media reports have highlighted the link between illegal pigeon capture in New York City and the trafficking of birds across state lines to be used in pigeon shoots. Pennsylvania is the last state to openly host these events. Sen. Krueger noted that New York banned captive live pigeon shoots in 1874.

City residents have witnessed individuals scattering seed or bait for birds, throwing a net over the animals and placing them in the back of vehicles. Birds reportedly arrive to the shoots already malnourished, dehydrated or dead.

"For the past 20 years, tens of thousands of birds have suffered while Pennsylvania citizens called for legislation banning pigeon shoots," said Heidi Prescott, senior vice president for The Humane Society of the United States. "Now the Pennsylvania Legislature's embarrassing failure to act on this reasonable measure has caught the attention of a legislator in another state."

The HSUS offers a standing $2,500 reward for information related to nettings, gambling and other illegal activity connected to live pigeon shoots. Individuals with information may call the toll-free live pigeon shoot tip line at 1-800-637-4124.

Facts

* The Pennsylvania Legislature has failed to pass any animal protection legislation this session.

* In pigeon shoots, birds are released one at time from boxes to be shot by individuals standing just a few yards away. The shooters are awarded prizes based on whether the wounded or dead animal lands inside a scoring area.

* During past live pigeon shoots, participants have snipped the heads off live birds with gardening shears, beaten wounded pigeons against barrels, buried wounded animals with dead ones in containers and abandoned wounded animals. 

* At least 1,000 birds are typically used for a one-day shoot. 

The HSUS works to stop wildlife abuse across the country. Visit http://www.humanesociety.org/wildlifeabuse for more information.

The Humane Society of the United States is the nation's largest animal protection organization - backed by 10.5 million Americans, or one of every 30. For more than a half-century, The HSUS has been fighting for the protection of all animals through advocacy, education and hands-on programs. Celebrating animals and confronting cruelty - On the web at http://www.humanesociety.org 
The Humane Society of the United States
2100 L Street, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20037
humanesociety.org
Celebrating Animals, Confronting Cruelty

NY Senator Krueger's Letter to Pennsylvania Legislature 

Dear Legislator,

On behalf of my constituents in the 26th Senate Legislative District of New York, I encourage you to support legislation to end pigeon shoots in Pennsylvania. It is my understanding that Pennsylvania openly hosts these events where captive birds are released or launched from boxes and shot within a ring for prizes and money. Unfortunately, it is not only Pennsylvania that is affected, the constant demand for animals to supply these events has spurred an associated animal cruelty issue in New York State in the form of pigeon poaching.

These poaching activities present an undue law enforcement challenge within my district, the Upper East Side of New York City, and other areas within the city. Capturing or netting pigeons is illegal, yet within my district residents repeatedly witness individuals scattering seed or bait for birds, throwing a net over the animals and placing these birds in the back of vehicle. The birds are then kept in crowded conditions and transported across state lines to shoots in Pennsylvania.

If the Pennsylvania pigeon shoot market for live birds to target in these competitions were ended through legislation, these pigeon nettings would undoubtedly dramatically decline and most likely, cease. I know of no other economic incentive for individuals to capture thousands of pigeons at a time, repeatedly throughout the year in New York. In fact, New York banned captive live pigeon shoots in 1874.

As you might imagine, our city's law enforcement bodies would rather spend their time and resources on priorities that do not include investigating frequent reports of pigeon capture.

Finally, the cruelty inherent in shooting launched animals that do not have an opportunity to escape the gun and knowing that it is our own state's wildlife killed in such a manner, is quite distressing to my constituents who value the humane treatment of animals. Again, I urge you to pass legislation before the fall shoot season starts again and increases the demand for our birds.

I thank you for your time. 

Sincerely, 

Liz Krueger
State Senator



Interested in taking action online to help animals? Then join our online community! Go to:
https://community.hsus.org/humane/join


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## Chelsea (Feb 3, 2007)

These pigeon shoots are very much alive and going on especially in Berks County in PA. We are the last state to still accept this type of behavior and cruelty. There is a small group of people that are hiding behind the NRA that seem to be pulling the strings of a few elected officials to keep it alive here. Getting the message out to others that love these birds as well as ones that care about cruelty to animals. HSUS is the best place to check on updates about the pigeon shoot bill and how to help. Time is running out for this year but we still have to try before the coming election.


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## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> I am now so ashamed of my state, and the fact this is still going on in my own back yard !!


Warren,

I think your initial response was what the majority of people would think. Actually most people would be surprised to hear that there is anything like a pigeon shoot happening let alone realize the level of cruelty toward the birds that goes on. The people who run this thing and the ones who participate in it go to extreme lengths to make sure it isn't general knowledge. Most sadists operate under the radar and that is what they are. Sport has nothing to do with it. I couldn't watch the videos, I would be in the bathroom throwing up if I did. Reading about it nearly does me in.

The answer to stopping this is getting enough people to realize that it is for real and going on right next door. I like to think that the average man would not stand for it. As to the pigeon fanciers, they have probably never thought that this may be where some of their lost birds have ended up. A little consciousness raising might be in order. As you said, one of your birds came back with netting it had torn free of.

Anything you can do to create awareness, I feel will go a long way toward stopping this practice.

Margaret
" You can always tell the cut of a man by the way he treats his livestock"
George E. Smith (my dad)


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## Teresa (Jul 10, 2005)

*Better than a pigeon shooters shoot*



Charis said:


> Attention Pennsylvania Hunters: Help Stop the Attack on Our Hunting Heritage!
> 
> Tuesday, July 01, 2008
> 
> ...


Well spotted, Charis! Pigeons are lucky to have eagle-eyed friends!

According to this, pigeon shooters consider the HSUS to be the greatest thorn on their side, so if we want to hit them where it really hurts, LET'S PUT OUR WEIGHT BEHIND THE HSUS. They'll be glad of the extra support and we'll ensure that pigeon shoots and pigeon netting are consigned to history.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Teresa said:


> Well spotted, Charis! Pigeons are lucky to have eagle-eyed friends!
> 
> According to this, pigeon shooters consider the HSUS to be the greatest thorn on their side, so if we want to hit them where it really hurts, LET'S PUT OUR WEIGHT BEHIND THE HSUS. They'll be glad of the extra support and we'll ensure that pigeon shoots and pigeon netting are consigned to history.


Teresa, you have a very good point!


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## Lilito54 (Aug 24, 2008)

*Bravo For Senator Krueger In New York City*

_OUR TOWN_ New York City East Side Community News

KRUEGER SLAMS PIGEON SHOOTS 
September 22, 2008

State Sen. Liz Krueger sent a letter to the Pennsylvania State Legislature to push a ban on live pigeon shoots, which she says causes poachers to target New York City. There is a bill sitting in the Pennsylvania legislature that would ban live-animal shoots.
“If the Pennsylvania pigeon shoot market for live birds to target in these competitions were ended through legislation, these pigeon nettings would undoubtedly dramatically decline and most likely, cease,” Krueger wrote.

*Please feel free to leave your comments:*

http://ourtownny.com/?p=705


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## Guest (Sep 23, 2008)

Wayne Pacelle, president of the HSUS, became an advocate for animals when, as a college student, he witnessed a Pennsylvania pigeon shoot. Here's a link to the Newsweek article about him http://www.newsweek.com/id/69533


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## Teresa (Jul 10, 2005)

*Let's add our voices*

I have left a message in the link supplied by Lilito. Please add your voices, let's overwhelm them!
Remember, though, that content is moderated, so diplomacy is a must.


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## outlawedlofts (Sep 23, 2008)

*totally Disgusting!!*


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Teresa said:


> I have left a message in the link supplied by Lilito. Please add your voices, let's overwhelm them!
> Remember, though, that content is moderated, so diplomacy is a must.


I also left a message, and was as diplomatic as possible for me, on this subject.


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## Lilito54 (Aug 24, 2008)

*Only a Few Days Left to Protect Puppies and Pigeons in Pennsylvania*

The Pennsylvania state legislature is about to adjourn and two important bills are still awaiting action.

Legislation (H.B. 2525) to crack down on puppy mills in Pennsylvania passed the House of Representatives last week! This was an historic victory in the "puppy mill capital of the east." H.B. 2525 will overhaul Pennsylvania's Dog Law and impose stronger animal welfare standards for puppy mills. This bill needs to pass the Senate before the legislature adjourns.

Legislation to stop pigeon shoots is also awaiting action in the legislature. This legislation has been amended on to several related bills that are scheduled to receive a vote in the House of Representatives. The opposition continues to be vigilant against our efforts, so it is critical to keep up the pressure. The Majority Leader of the House, Representative William DeWeese, has the power to bring the pigeon shoot amendments up for a vote, so he needs to hear from Pennsylvanians who support this legislation.

TAKE ACTION
1. Please make a brief, polite phone call to your state senator, Michael Stack, at (717) 787-9608 to urge support for H.B. 2525 to overhaul the Dog Law and give stronger protections for dogs in breeding facilities. After making your call, please send a follow-up email to Senator Stack in support of H.B. 2525. If you can't call, be sure to send an e-mail.

2. Please make a brief, polite phone call to Rep. DeWeese, Majority Leader of the House, at (724) 627-8683 to urge him to support the pigeon shoot amendments and use his leadership role to bring the amendments up for a vote. When you call, you can say:

"Hello, my name is [your name] and I'm calling from [your town] to ask Representative DeWeese to support Representative Leach's efforts to amend a Title 18 bill to ban the shooting of trap-released or tethered animals for target practice. I urge him to give these amendments a vote. It’s time to finally prohibit pigeon shoots in Pennsylvania. Thank you." If you can't call, please send an e-mail or fax ASAP to: E-Mail: Click here to contact Member 
http://www.pahouse.com/Deweese/contact.asp

Hon. H. William DeWeese
222 Elm Drive
Suite 101, P.O. Box 832
Waynesburg, PA 15370 
(724) 627-8683
Fax: (724) 627-6043

Hon. H. William DeWeese
110 Main Capitol Building
PO Box 202050
Harrisburg, PA 17120-2050
(717) 783-3797
Fax: (717) 772-3605


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## risingstarfans (Sep 13, 2008)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> This footage is of course very graphic and designed to get a response out of you in terms of a donation. To the best of my knowlege, this is very old footage from events of long ago. Public outrage from events such as the "Higgins Pigeon Shoot", caused so much outrage that no such event has been held since.
> 
> This site leads one to think that these events still occur, and that the site was some how involved in putting an end to such practices. I suspect that the operator simply has collected this footage and now hopes to profit from it, by your donations.
> 
> ...



I am aware of the source of the footage, and you are right, it is an attempt to get donations for the Humane Society of the United States and People bor the Ethical Treatment of Animals. Both of these groups are radical vegans whose true agenda is the abolishment of the keeping and use of any animals whether as food, fur or family pets. Or even as a hobby. Do not confuse the HSUS with the real Humane Society founded over 120 years ago that do good works....


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## Teresa (Jul 10, 2005)

risingstarfans said:


> I am aware of the source of the footage, and you are right, it is an attempt to get donations for the Humane Society of the United States and People bor the Ethical Treatment of Animals. Both of these groups are radical vegans whose true agenda is the abolishment of the keeping and use of any animals whether as food, fur or family pets. Or even as a hobby. Do not confuse the HSUS with the real Humane Society founded over 120 years ago that do good works....


Meaning...?

Personally, I don't find vegans scary, though I'm not one.
I prefer furs that walk around on their own legs.
If anybody tells me that I can't keep a pet that is perfectly happy and safe in captivity, I take no notice.
If anybody asks me for money, I am not obliged to give it to them.
So... no problem!

The only thing that worries me is that you didn't repudiate the cruelty reported. Do you think it's a hoax?


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## karijo (Apr 11, 2006)

risingstarfans said:


> I am aware of the source of the footage, and you are right, it is an attempt to get donations for the Humane Society of the United States and People bor the Ethical Treatment of Animals. Both of these groups are radical vegans whose true agenda is the abolishment of the keeping and use of any animals whether as food, fur or family pets. Or even as a hobby. Do not confuse the HSUS with the real Humane Society founded over 120 years ago that do good works....


I'm a "radical vegan", member of both PETA and HSUS, life-long animal rights activist... and yet I lack the "true agenda" you speak of. 

I don't think it's any shock that these organizations are against animal cruelty, torture, suffering, and senseless slaughter. Truth is, they have done so much good - look at the welfare laws passed in our time now protecting lab animals, puppy mill dogs, farm animals, pet trade animals, and domestic pets from torture and suffering. Have they stopped these things entirely? No. Have they made a difference in _how_ we use the animals we use? Absolutely. Come on, you keep pigeons, surely you must love animals. Take some time to get to know the good these organizations do, even if you don't agree with all of it, surely you can appreciate some of the good... These guys aren't in the same league as some of the truly radical groups out there - if you call PETA radical, my gosh, you have no idea. The A.L.F is radical. PETA doesn't blow up buildings, break into labs, send threats... PETA is all about education, petitioning, lobbying, demonstrations, and pamphlets. 

I think these and other organizations have made great progress in animal welfare in my lifetime. You have to understand that they truly embrace an educational stance, whether or not people agree with or like what they have to say is another story entirely. But as to be expected, there are always opposing viewpoints. And also, as to be expected, there are always going to be extremists carrying on under the name of PETA, HSUS, or any other organization, whether or not their behavior is approved, supported, endorsed, or even known about. Does that make sense?

These organizations are not bad, nor manipulating precious dollars from the pockets of well-meaning donors with lies or fabrications. The fact is, the videos, pictures, documented cases of abuse, and testimonials exist. PETA, HSUS, and others are just making the information available, providing opportunities for people to voice objections, whether its by volunteering a service, writing a letter, or donating cash. 

PETA has a bad rap, because though they represent a minority, they are big, they are loud, and they employ often unpleasant in-your-face tactics that make it hard to turn a deaf ear. You don't need to like what they do, but please don't turn to insulting the gentle vegan. 


I don't especially like the NRA or the Dairy Industry, but I don't stomp around cursing radical _meat-eaters_ under my breath either. I might like to poke a furrier in the eye though. 


Just some food for thought, so to speak. Get to know the groups you think you hate, you might surprise yourself by finding things about them you actually agree with.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

karijo said:


> I'm a "radical vegan", member of both PETA and HSUS, life-long animal rights activist... and yet I lack the "true agenda" you speak of......
> 
> 
> I don't especially like the NRA or the Dairy Industry, but I don't stomp around cursing radical _meat-eaters_ under my breath either. I might like to poke a furrier in the eye though.
> ...


From a political point of view....if one looks hard enough, one can find *something* , maybe the sky is blue, that you can say....OK I agree with that. The problem is, when you are supporting an organization, you must look at the whole picture. And if there is something in that picture, that is important enough, then you may have to actively oppose that group, even if you support or agree with some good things, they may do. A very extreme example would be groups such as the Nazi's or KKK. I am sure if one looks hard enough, there were some good things they did also such as feeding people, helping the poor, building affordable housing, provided jobs, etc. etc. However, there were/are a few details in their agenda's which negates any good they may have done. So, in my extreme example, I don't need to closely examine them in order to find things that I might agree with. The fact that if I did, I might find something that I might agree with, or might find something positive, does not mean that they should not be actively opposed. 

You suggest or advocate that poking a stick in the eye of a furrier may not be such a bad idea, even if in some form of jest, is what concerns many folks in the mainstream. You may start with poking out eyes of furrier's, and then progress to farmers, and then pigeon hobbyists. And why some Fascist animal rights people progress to setting bombs and killing people, all in the name of saving animals.

I appreciate your views, and like most people, I think reasonable people support the humane treatment of animals. Where the debates begin, is when the issues begin to take on a political flavor. And when groups and their supporters start down the road of lobbying, demonstrations, etc. they are expressing and promoting political views and agendas. And reasonable people, can disagree, but the tricky part is not to turn these pages into a political battleground of opposing groups.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> From a political point of view....if one looks hard enough, one can find *something* , maybe the sky is blue, that you can say....OK I agree with that. The problem is, when you are supporting an organization, you must look at the whole picture. And if there is something in that picture, that is important enough, then you may have to actively oppose that group, even if you support or agree with some good things, they may do.
> 
> Well, you people can go back and forth forever on this topic, but if not for organizations like this, there would be no one, absolutely no one, to speak up for the rights of animals. And if you stick your head in the sand long enough, and keep telling yourself that these things don't still exist, and try to sell that idea to others, does that really make you feel better? Or is it on a more personal level that you are concerned? What is it that would make you feel so threatened? These groups aren't there to stop people from owning pets, as long as there is not abuse involved. Nor are they there to stop people from enjoying a hobby, as long, as I said, there is no abuse involved. What is it that worries you? Can you all say that in your ownership or animals, or in your animal hobbies that there is no abuse involved? Because, that abuse is what they fight to change. Unfair, cruel treatment of animals for a persons benefit. If you can honestly say that there is no cruelty or abuse, then I see no reason why anyone would worry. But if there is.............then it needs to be addressed. And stopped. They don't dredge up old images of things that are not going on anymore. It's just that people look the other way far too often. Maybe it starts creeping too close to home. Makes one wonder why they would bother anyone who has only the animals best welfare in mind.JMO


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## karijo (Apr 11, 2006)

i said "poke a stick"?

heck no! i was thinking more like, my thumb.
geez.

like a gentle but to the point good old thumb in the eye.
and not in the name of PETA.

As a jew, I have to take some offense here and can hardly see how you can even in the most extreme remotest way compare a group like PETA, aimed at saving and protecting the lives of innocent creatures, with the Nazi's and the KKK, clearly after a much much different agenda. Come on. I think you're being a little bit of an extremist, no? 

I was simply trying to offer the suggestion that these are groups working towards a kinder life for animals - they aren't even for a moment suggesting a less kind life for scientists, farmers, pet owners, etc. They are about relieving pain and suffering, not spreading it. I was only trying to help you see beyond a viewpoint that seemed to me lacking an understanding of the "true agenda" of these groups, because I think you have been mislead somewhere into thinking these groups support radical behavior, when they assert that they do not. 

I think in your reply you lost sight of the point you originally made, and the point you are defending. _I agree with you _that extremists in the animal rights sect can take things too far - what I am trying to explain to you is that it is_ incorrect _to lump PETA and HSUS, education based organizations, in with those people and groups. 

I hope my message is clearer to you. 

Meanwhile, "And when groups and their supporters start down the road of lobbying, demonstrations, etc. they are expressing and promoting political views and agendas" ?
Erm... isn't that the whole point? Change is a result of action and education, and lobbying and demonstrating. Are you equally opposed to groups you _support_ lobbying and demonstrating and expressing and promoting political views and agendas? How would you propose to bring about change in the causes you believe in, no matter what they are? Bumperstickers and clever t-shirts can only take us so far.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

*"Extremism in pursuit of Animal Rights, is no Vice"....?*



karijo said:


> ......Meanwhile, "And when groups and their supporters start down the road of lobbying, demonstrations, etc. they are expressing and promoting political views and agendas" ?
> Erm... isn't that the whole point? Change is a result of action and education, and lobbying and demonstrating. Are you equally opposed to groups you _support_ lobbying and demonstrating and expressing and promoting political views and agendas? How would you propose to bring about change in the causes you believe in, no matter what they are? Bumperstickers and clever t-shirts can only take us so far.


I think my point is/was, that these pages may not be the best place to do lobbying and/or promoting of political views and such for another group. The organizations which you belong to, have their own web sites and blogs in which members who support such things can go to. I may belong to the Future Farmers of America, the NRA National Rifle Association, Beef Growers Association, or other such organizations which also have viewpoints about animals and their care, but I don't attempt to use these pages to promote their viewpoints and/or attempt to find fault with those who don't hold their views as gospel.........there was once a famous American who said "Extremism in pursuit of Liberty is no Vice"...most American's did not agree apparently with his assessment, since he lost the election by a landslide. And I suspect that many would also have a problem with "Extremism in pursuit of Animal Rights, is no Vice"....well that's my final two cents on this particular subject.


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## karijo (Apr 11, 2006)

Hey, I was simply responding to the original slandering of vegans as radical animal rights activists with secret agendas.

Spoken like the sissy vegan I am, "THEY started it!"


"Originally Posted by risingstarfans 
I am aware of the source of the footage, and you are right, it is an attempt to get donations for the Humane Society of the United States and People bor the Ethical Treatment of Animals. *Both of these groups are radical vegans whose true agenda is the abolishment of the keeping and use of any animals whether as food, fur or family pets. Or even as a hobby*. Do not confuse the HSUS with the real Humane Society founded over 120 years ago that do good works...."


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## Lilito54 (Aug 24, 2008)

PA State Police Misconduct - Corrupt Cop

An Illinois animal protection organization has filed a complaint with the Internal Affairs Division of the Pennsylvania State Police relating to a pigeon shoot held at the Strausstown Rod and Gun Club Sunday, November 23, 2008.

The incident involved State Police Corporal Kenneth J. Winter, who violated the rights of citizens, using intimidation and threats of police action to eject them from public easement outside the gun club.

A video of the incident was posted on YouTube for the world to see at:

PA State Police Misconduct
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OI8qxeyMcuQ


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

> PA State Police Misconduct - Corrupt Cop


Very, very disturbing at several levels. I'm sure the complaint against the officer will eventually wend it's way through the bureaucracy so I'm not going to lose much sleep over that, but the extreme brutality to the pigeons from the children is sickening and the stuff of which nightmares are made. It's bad enough that the pigeons were shot in the first place but to then let the birds suffer and ultimately die from being kicked, hit, and sqashed by kids is extreme cruelty. This is just my personal opinion, and others are certainly entitled to theirs.

Terry


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## Lilito54 (Aug 24, 2008)

*Shame of PA*

In my opinion, these children are being abused by the adults around them. It is not in children's nature to mistreat living beings. Cruelty towards animals, specially this kind of senseless bloody butchery is learned behavior. 
These kids are subjected by adults to witness and participate in horrendous, barbarous acts but I very much doubt they enjoy it.
If authorities were more sensitive to children's needs they would not allow the abuse. Hunting for "pleasure" (destroying, annihilating) live animals is not a right of passage for any human being with a soul. It is just shameful and disgusting!


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Lilito54 said:


> In my opinion, these children are being abused by the adults around them. It is not in children's nature to mistreat living beings. Cruelty towards animals, specially this kind of senseless bloody butchery is learned behavior.
> These kids are subjected by adults to witness and participate in horrendous, barbarous acts but I very much doubt they enjoy it.
> If authorities were more sensitive to children's needs they would not allow the abuse. Hunting for "pleasure" (destroying, annihilating) live animals is not a right of passage for any human being with a soul. It is just shameful and disgusting!


I agree with you 100%.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Does anyone have any update on the legislation about the pigeon shoots?

If not, then there's nothing more in the way of 'news and advocacy' to say on this thread until we actually get some news.

John


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## Lilito54 (Aug 24, 2008)

*Live pigeon shoots - PA Shame*

Here's an update

http://community.icontact.com/p/new...on-on-pigeon-shoot-bill-we-need-your-help-now


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## Lilito54 (Aug 24, 2008)

Here's an update

http://articles.lancasteronline.com/local/4/230823


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

As this was early November, how does one find out what did happen to the bill? 



> The House meets this Wednesday and will decide if H.B. 2130 gets passed. If so, the Bill moves forward into the Senate for approval and then to the Governor where it becomes law.


Haven't seen any more (apart from the other 'update' posted here) on NYBC forum.

John


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