# Injured pigeon - Cambridgeshire UK



## Philip (May 13, 2003)

The Saturday before last a racing pigeon came down in our garden with an apparently injured wing. We caught and boxed him and (from the ring) contacted the NEHU who put us in touch with the owner. He’d been in a race from Epping to Newcastle and when we drew a line on the map we found that the straight line passed right over where we live! I’ve read Jane’s posts about Honey the stock dove and it appears Homer’s (blame my wife for the name!.....lol) injury is similar although there is no sign of bone or blood. The wing was simply held at a slightly different angle to the other and if he was frightened into trying to fly he appeared unable to generate any power and simply flopped over on the side with the damaged wing while beating the other wing ok. 

We kept in touch with the owner for three days and he made it clear (in a nice way) that he had no room in his loft for an injured bird. He would, he said, never race again and he would have to kill him if he was returned home. He also told us he is a Van Den Bosche pigeon (very beautiful with a distinctive white flight feathers in one wing). He was very happy to give Homer to us and sent down some videos and magazines about racing pigeons.

On the Tuesday after the Bank Holiday we took him to a local vet who basically opined that he would be unlikely to fly again and maybe should be put down. So I basically told her that I didn’t put down animals except in extremis and that this didn’t constitute extremis. After that she was fine and agreed to immobilise the wing with a binding of veterinary gauze which Homer does NOT like (keeps pecking). She didn’t say that it was definitely broken but she thought that there was a problem “high up where the wing joins the body”. We were told to leave the bandage on for 3 weeks.

If anyone has any experience of this sort of thing; chances of recovery, care etc etc I’d be grateful for advice.

Anyway Homer is now back in our hall in a cardboard box, which I have made a part wired front for, of about 22" by 16" and he now has special pigeon mix plus pigeon grit. We aren’t supplying any other minerals right now. Should we be? Calcium maybe for bones? Or will he get enough from the grit? Also will he be too hot in the house?

For the future the problems start when the bandage comes off. He is not hand tame, but on the other hand not panicky frightened of us either. My wife says he can’t stay in the house. The vet says he will need a companion pigeon if we keep him, is this right? If he flies again I am told there is a chance he will return to Newcastle (and then be killed, although if he does I have told the former owner that we will pay to have him brought back). Right now it’s impractical to start a proper pigeon loft as we are about to start a building project but we have a big garden in the countryside and could easily have a loft in the future. In the meantime we are thinking of maybe a small shed in the garden (dimensions?) with an open wired aviary attached (dimensions?) to house Homer and a mate to start with. We could then release him in the aviary to see whether he could fly without actually letting him free to start with. It would also give the hen bird some space to stretch her wings. Is this a good plan or could we do something better?

Also will both birds eventually become “homed” here and forget their former loft? How long will it take? I suppose we have to keep them shut in for a long while?

Eventually we would hope to open a door high up in the aviary side (we have cats round here) and let them fly free at certain times of the day when we are about.

If it turns out Homer can fly again we could still do the shed and aviary idea but I was thinking maybe a network of slatted “ladders” for him to walk up and down to reach when the hen would be roosting and the higher perches and the aviary? Is that better than just leaving him on the floor all the time? Any other ideas/advice on this? Hopefully it won’t be necessary though as we are praying that he regains his flight. 

Any other advice on feeding for recovery, amount of heating (also in the shed?), whether to get a cock or hen as a companion, preventing danger from cats/sparrowhawks, allowing them to breed etc etc?

If we do decide to get more pigeons one thing that puts us off organised racing is the idea of “forcing” the birds into better performances by systems such as widowhood and darkness. Isn’t this cruel? Also I could never kill a pigeon that was old or underperforming. What do other pigeon fanciers do with old birds or weaker ones? Is it possible to simply “retire” pigeons into a different loft and just let them free and still have them near to your racing team? Basically I guess I’m asking: “how humane is pigeon racing”?

Sorry this is so long, but I’d be grateful for any help.

Philip


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

Hello,

Thanks you so much for helping "Homer's" the lost racer.. Very kind of you









I also have a pet racer, she was lost so I decided to keep her and what a sweetie she is! She is married to my other pet pijjie "Dotty" who is a feral with one leg..

Please check out the "Resources" above for info on feeding and housing.


I'd like to list afew other things that might be good for your pigeon:

I use a vitamin/minderal powder for avians in their water since they don't get direct sunlight and could be lacking the vitamin D3 so I use the flavoured supplements.

I also got a cuttle bone for my birds, they love it when I cut it up in tiny pieces (it's good calcium!)

Another thing I use is crushed egg shells (I wash them and microwave them for 3 minutes then put them in a bag and crush them with a rolling pin.
I have oyster shell grit too.

Once a week instead of the supplements in the water I put a tiny drop of Apple Cider vinegar (the dose is 1/4 cup per gallon or a little less)

You can offer your bird fresh food like chopped lettuce, Berries, thawed peas and corn and sprouted seeds (I sproud lentils and my pigeons love them)

You can also get black oil sunflower seeds and raw (NOT dry roasted) peanuts as a treat (Pigeons love them!







)

I really don't think it would be too hot in the house, many of us here at pigeons.com have pet pigeons that live inside.
We live in an apt and my birds are alright in my room, they have a nesting box and are currantly sitting on 2 eggs, they can also perch up on the closet door or sleep there.. I have them free flying and never cage them up.










Don't worry about him not being hand tamed, he will if you put some effort into it and take it really easy, my bird "Dotty" was wild when I got him and all he could do was freeze when he saw me or bite and wingslap me when I came near him.. Now when I come into the room he will fly down to the floor and I will play with him and carry him on my shoulder. Pearl the racer was also afraid at first and would puff at me everytime but now she runs over to me and preens my hand









I also find that it is much easier to tame a pigeon when you only have one around, I tamed Dotty then got Pearl a month later when she dropped in.. At this time Pearl was abit wild and noticed how Dotty was "friendly" towards me so she tamed on her own but if you have 2 untamed birds and then try to tame them I find it harder because they will try to stick with each other and run away from you and do whatever pigeons do but with one bird you can spend time with him and then he will feel happy to see you and crave your attention.

If you have any questions just post..

Mary


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## Philip (May 13, 2003)

Mary

Thanks so much for the reply and the advice on supplements especially. I will try and get some as soon as possible. The cuttle bone is a brilliant idea - we have a cockatiel who’s been with us for 21 years so I will “borrow” some of his cuttlebone and chop it up right away! Egg shells is a great idea too - why didn’t I think of that!

Can I ask why you use the apple cider vinegar? 

I guess you are right about taming one bird at a time we’ve found that with cockatiels too. Anyway thanks again for the advice and the time you took to reply.

Philip


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

Your welcome!









The apple cider vinegar is good for the birds, it helps keep diseases like Canker and sour crop from developing. 
I use it once a week in the water and the rest of the time I use the vitamin powder (you can use it twice in the week) 

Some people use abit of plain bleach in the water but I choose to use the cider vinegar instead and since it helps to slightly acidify the water and prevent yeast from building up in the pigeon crop.

Mary


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Philip
I'll be honest with you - if a qualified vet cannot determine a fractured bone - (quite easy to do) and the best she can say is -"a problem somewhere high up near the shoulder" and not even think of a dislocation then that bird aint gonna fly again because the treatment given is very likely not appropriate.
I deal with at least a dozen wing injuries a week and I have seen many which have been stapped by a vet which have been virtually useless.
Whereabouts in Cambridgeshire are you? There's an experienced bird man at Wisbech and his email addy is [email protected]
He may be able to help you.
I'm in Lancashire by the way.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hello and welcome,

I am in Norfolk, so quite close to you.

I have 19 pigeons in an aviary in the garden. Several of them have wing injuries and they can all get around to some extent: some can jump on to boxes, others fly to perches. They all have mates in the aviary now and are happy pigeons.

The aviary is 4 foot wide, 6 foot tall and 25 feet long. The odd shape is because after starting off with a single pigeon (Feefo the Beautiful) I have had to extend various times.

Three of my pigeons are homers, and they have settled quite happily. Only one is able to fly, but I did not dare release him because there was a real risk of his returning home, where he would be killed.

I think that pigeons that have been used to living outdoors are probably better off in an outside aviary. I was told that it is better to have a long flight, so that the pigeons can develop their flying muscles, but I have not seen them fly the length of the aviary at any time. 

My advice is to think carefully before building, to go as big as you can afford and to allow for expansion.

I have a shelter at one end of the aviary with box perches in it but I sometimes wish that I had built on to my garden shed. A friend of mine did this and she attached the flight to the side of the aviary with a little window for the pigeons to come and go through. She had a wire mesh door.

I saw rats in my garden years before I had pigeons and have not seen any since the pigeons arrived, but I think it is best to use the stonger wire, and to have the floors wired too, so that rats can't burrow or chew their way in.

I can't offer any advice on letting homers fly free from a new location because I have never tried it. It is a risk, but I know that lost homers have settled with feral flocks and at the rescue locations where they were released, so there must be a possibility of success. 

I think that you will get a tremendous amount of enjoyment out of just watching your pigeon. They are amazing.

Cynthia





------------------
_All beings are fond of themselves, they like pleasure, they hate pain, they shun destruction, they like life and want to live long. To all, life is dear; hence their life should be protected.

-Mahavira_


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## Philip (May 13, 2003)

Mary

Thanks again, I shall try doing as you suggest. And btw he loves the cuttlebone!

Nooti

What you say is certainly worrying. Are you saying the strapping could make things worse? If it is dislocation (which certainly seems more likely to me) is it curable? We are not too far from Wisbech just north of Peterborough, would it be possible to mail your birdman (vet?) if Homer isn’t better when we take the strapping off? 

Just checked out your website. Amazing! I lived in Bolton for 20 years, for the last 7 in Harwood, and there was a wildlife rehabilitation centre just across the moor from us (can’t remember the name right now) we used to go there a lot.

Cynthia

Everything you say makes perfect sense to me, and we will keep him whether it turns out that he can fly or not. Your friend’s arrangement sounds very much what I am thinking of. 

What amazes me is how attached we have got to him in just 10 days, his mannerisms are so like that of our cockatiel but his different character is already showing.

Anyway thanks again to all of you. Great message board ).

Philip


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Hi Philip
So you were once a near neighbour. 
You can check Ron out at Wisbech but if the injury was a fracture then it's too late anyway to do anything as the callus which will already have formed will be holding bone together and probably in the wrong position. I seriously doubt a vet's strapping will have helped it although I could be wrong, but vets seem to go overboard when splinting a wing - quite forgetting that birds are very lightweight and the result is usually a splint or strap that is so heavy it drags the wing down at the shoulder causing more damage. My best successes have been splinted by just taping the affecting wing feathers to the tail feathers quite tightly. This holds the wing in the correct position so that when the fracture heals the wing is in the correct position for flying again. And it is very lightweight - doesn't drag the wing down at the shoulder.
If it is a dislocation it is still too late. In birds a dislocation needs to be replaced within a few hours for it to be successful.
Sorry to sound so pessimistic - just quoting from experience.
My guess is you got a pet pigeon.


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## Philip (May 13, 2003)

Just to summarise:

If he has a fractured wing it may or may not heal correctly. If it does he might fly, if it doesn’t he won’t.

If he has a dislocated wing the strapping isn’t going to help and he won’t fly.

One last question (sorry about this) - in any of the above cases if we end up keeping him as a pet after the strapping comes off is it likely he will be in any pain or discomfort? In other words, is he going to enjoy life?

Anyway in the meantime this morning we have another visitor. Word has got round the village about Homer and a neighbour brought another racing pigeon this time a yearling female (I think). She looked like she was in a very bad way. Probably been lying in a garden since Saturday’s races. Her left leg is damaged in some way. She can’t put any weight on it at all just keels over on her side. Also she was absolutely skin and bone and very very weak. Not sure about her wings, she hasn’t moved them much at all although when I expanded them to look for a wing stamp they seemed ok. Her tail looks a little odd - held at a downward angle with quite an apparent bump on her rump (almost like she might be egg bound?), but this maybe just the effect of the useless leg or something. There is no apparent break in the lower part of her leg so it seems something may be wrong higher up ~sigh~. 

I’ve contacted the owner’s wife (in Hull) and the owner is due to ring back in about an hour or so after work. She says he will send Amtrak for her (the bird not the wife), but in the state she’s in I think a journey might finish her off and I wonder what he will do with a bird with a broken leg in any case.

Right now we have devised a kind of sling out of soft towelling with a slit for her legs and she is suspended from that in a warm box to keep her upright so that she can eat a little and drink, which she is doing at intervals. In between just hunching up in the sling and sleeping.

She is a very pretty little bird, much gentler than Homer, but not looking too good right now (. Oh, and btw she is called "Brightness".

Philip

[This message has been edited by Philip (edited May 14, 2003).]


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

She sounds beautiful, Philip. Please make sure that the owner isn't going to destroy her!

It sounds as if this one rally needs a vet, but just in case she can't keep that leg please be aware that I have a very happy pigeon with its leg amputated at the hip. She hops around with no assistance from her wing.

As to your other question, none of my wing damaged pigeons show any sign of discomfort and have a great life. They are very lively and argumantative.


Cynthia


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Hi Philip.
Pain and discomfort are due to current damage which still needs to heal. Once healing is complete no more pain signals are sent out so Homer will be fine.
As to the new one - please don't Amtrak her until she has plenty of flesh on her. She is not fit to travel at the moment and you must tell the owner that.
She may have a femur head dislocation and if that is so she'll form a false joint but will never be any good for racing or even breeding again so be sure the owner really wants to keep her.


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## Philip (May 13, 2003)

Cynthia and Nooti

Unfortunately Brightness passed on in the night. (. I spoke to the owner when he got back from work and he was anxious about her as she was one of his best yearling hens having won prizes in several races both last year and this. He was absolutely sure that if it was only a broken leg then she would fly again but he agreed that having spent 5 days lying in someone’s garden she wouldn’t be fit to travel (she’d been on a race from Fareham, Hants to Hull last Saturday). We agreed I’d look after her for a day or two and then he’d send for her.

I have to say though that I was worried about her despite his assurances that if she was eating and drinking she would be ok. When we got home (about 8pm) she’d managed to get out of the sling and was lying helpless beak down in a corner of the box in the straw. Totally unable to reach food or water and thrashing around at intervals. In fact on the face of it she’d completely recovered her energy (so much so that I actually tried to phone the owner to offer to drive up and meet him with her near Doncaster last night), but it was kind of unnatural; a period of frantic thrashing followed by totally stillness with eyes half closed. The owner had said that if she came out of the sling the best thing to do was to cut the toe off a large sock and encase her in that making sure her vent was clear and she could reach food and water. She seemed to need to be immobilised so we did this and before we went to bed I gave her a little water in a dessert spoon which she drank, she seemed fairly comfortable. At 2am I got up to check on her and she had gone.

Nooti, you were absolutely right though about her condition. I said to my wife that, in contrast to Homer, she had absolutely no flesh or fat on her I could feel her whole breastbone and ribcage easily. I am also pretty sure she was suffering from something else as well. Lying in a garden where the owner has dogs and cats for 4 days I find it hard to imagine that she wasn’t touched by them.


Also a femur dislocation (the joint right at the top with the main skeletal frame?) Sounds likely as I felt right up her leg and there was no obvious break at all. 

Anyway, any comments would be welcome. Anything we did wrong or should have done. I’m just trying to learn as fast as possible so that when it happens again I’ll be more prepared.

Thanks again.

Philip

PS Homer is still very lively and bright eyed )


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I am very sorry, Phillip. Brightness sounded in such a bad way that even without the emaciation I think that her chances of survival were slim. 

Cynthia


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## Philip (May 13, 2003)

Thanks Cynthia - I think you are right. Five days lying with a bad leg in a cat and dog infested garden without food or water and through two hailstorms and one night below zero isn't good for any bird I guess.

Homer has started "cooing" occasionally. He snuggles into his straw like a nest and coos, or he coos just after I have put his food down for instance. Does this mean anything? Also he has started standing on one leg sometimes. Our cockatiel does this to go to sleep I suppose it's the same.

Philip


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## Philip (May 13, 2003)

Cynthia, Helen, Mary and all,

Another thing, now I've managed to track down FPRC and do a bit of reading (wow, those user groups are SO user unfriendly) I'd just like to say how grateful to you all for the help. You are obviously all very busy but also incredibly knowledgeable. Having been heavily involved in a message board in an entirely different arena I know how disheartening it can be sometimes when you freely give time and expertise and the intended recipients don’t respond or appear unappreciative. So thanks again ).

In the meantime it looks like we are going to build a small loft and aviary just for Homer and a female, but I have a feeling it will fill up quite quickly! So I’m just trying to pick up as much on basic management, feeding and first aid as I can. We have had cockatiels for 22 years. Our male is now nearly 22 years old and has never had one day’s illness in his life, unfortunately we have however lost two females to egg binding, so I am specially sensitive to that problem. In fact I can get it out of my mind that this might have been part of the problem with Brightness. She had a very pronounced bump on her rump and held her tail at a downward angle which was very like our female cockatiels did when they had the problem. The owner of Brightness assured me that she couldn’t have been having an egg, but I wonder how he can be so sure at this time of year. Also I may be wrong, but I seem to remember reading somewhere that egg binding can cause temporary paralysis of the legs and extreme weakness. Also I can’t get what Helen wrote to Jane about Honey out of my head:

“Jane
It seems you have only just got the pigeon so sadly you don't know any history. How is she in herself? Does she look bright eyed and alert or is she looking miserable and not doing much? Is she eating and drinking normally?
She may have some internal injuries, or she may have a calcium deficiency. This does not always result in a soft shelled egg. This is usually in the latter stages before they lose the use of their legs.
What many people do not realise is that muscles need calcium to work.”

And I’m really wondering whether Brightness’s legs “injury” might have been connected to that. Though it seems odd as it appeared to be just one leg.

The owner of Brightness suggested giving her sugared water as an electrolyte (which I did not manage to do) but somewhere on this site or FPRC Fred writes of the dangers of this re: yeast infection. Also I was surprised to read that calcium in liquid form is an electrolyte and good for exhausted birds as well as presumably assisting in egg-binding cases. But somewhere else I read that to be beneficial calcium needs certain vitamins.

Sorry to go on about this when Brightness is dead, but I can’t help feeling that if I’d known more we might have been able to save her.

With Homer I am doing as Mary suggested. We now have some organic (nothing but the best...lol) cider vinegar and once a week I’m putting 5ml in 70ml of water (I worked back from Mary’s quarter cup to a gallon so I hope I got the maths right!). Plus I am chopping cuttlebone into little chunks and putting a teaspoonful or so in with a special pigeon grit I got from a seed merchant. I have no idea though whether the grit is what might be called a “mineral” grit so I was wondering whether I ought to try and get some sort of mineral block for him to peck at? The local pet shop only sells and “iodine block” for cage birds so I am not sure about that. And right now we are not giving him and vitamin supplements.

I’m feeding a mixture which contains: Maple Peas, Wheat, Barley, Maize, Mung Beans (20 grams per day).

And another mixture: Wheat, Groas (?), Safflower, Buckwheat, Pinhead Oats, Dari, Black Rape, Mung Beans, Red Rape, Gold of Pleasure (whatever that is!), Blue Maw and Aniseed Oil. (10 grams per day).

That’s 30 grams per day in total which I think is maybe a little too much as he is not exactly exerting himself right now and he always tends to leave some of the wheat and maple peas.

Also I occasionally give him a peanut (he goes totally crazy for peanuts) to try and get him used to my hands, and finally today after a week and a half he took one from my fingers. Are whole peanuts ok or should I cut them up?

I’ve checked out “Resources” but a lot of the names are American brands I think and I have no idea where to get the right vitamins, minerals, calcium in solution/suspension (?), vaccines etc etc. And to be honest I’m getting a bit overwhelmed by all the information.

Do you think my feeding regime is giving him all he needs and guarding against canker and any other common pigeon problems? Or is there anything I need to change or add? 

Sorry to be so demanding, no hurry replying at all as all this doesn’t qualify as an “emergency”. In fact if the mods want to transfer to the discussion board that would be fine by me.

Thanks again.

Philip


PS Just seen this from Helen on vitamins:

“I use Avimix by VetArk - which is a vet product but in certain places you can buy it over the counter. Try a large supermarket type pet store if you have one near you.”

I will look for it, but is this something I should be giving him regularly or just for sick birds? I mean, can he not derive enough vitamins from his seed mixtures?


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Philip
That's a long post!
Granted you've quoted me a few times!  -for which I don't mind.
I'll try and answer as much as I can. Your last one on getting enough vits from the seed mixture is a controversial one. If a bird has a good reserve of vits and calcium then seed and grit alone should be enough. But you are dealing with an unknown quantity and you have no idea just how much of a reserve your Homer has. If reserves are low then seed and grit will not be enough. If you are breeding then it's best to add a supplement and breeding is a great strain on the system. You can buy Avimix from Vetark's website - http://www.vetark.co.uk/ and it will mix in the drinking water, as long as you don't overload it.
You can buy Lectade at the vet which is a rehydrant fluid containing electrolytes, but I'm not sure if this is prescription only in which case you would have to bring the bird in for consultation. If I get a minute this weekend I'll ask Laura - but I am heading for a heavy weekend and not likely to be around for a day or two.
Calcium deficiency can just affect one leg although it is usually both, and vitamin B is rquired in order that the body can process the calcium intake.
If you are looking for a female I may be able to find you one. I am coming down to Norwich on 1st June and although I'm on a tight schedule - if you can manage the journey to meet us somewhere I'll see what I can do in the way of a hen bird for you.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Philip,

Vetark are very good, delivering the next day.

This is the place that provided my aviary:
http://www.bird-aviaries.co.uk/info-2.htm 

It will give you an idea of what is available and what they cost, but I saw an advert for an 8 month old 8X5 aviary with an enclosed shelter in the free ads for £170 (it cost £450 originally) so the free ads are worth checking. I think everything would have to be thoroughly disinfected as we don't know what the fate of the original occupiers was!

Cynthia


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## Philip (May 13, 2003)

Helen 

So fast coming back to me! For which I’m very grateful again. And, yes, I do tend to get long-winded when I get worked up about something and having just lost one little pigeon (probably due to my incompetence) I intend to try my best not to lose another! But sorry about the long post.

Anyway I think you about covered all my main concerns, and ta very much for the link to Vetark (which of course I’d never heard of). I think if I had my time with Brightness again I’d have tried to get some calcium into her quickly - I have a feeling that that was at least part of the problem. 

As for the hen bird that is a really kind offer. This 1st June trip I guess is your Norfolk Broads outing with Cynthia and John (I read about it on FPRC, being nosey...lol). We love the Broads (if you can get away from all the horrid power boats that is). We sail, and don’t frighten away the wildlife, with the result that I’ve had the most marvellous sightings of bittern, bearded tits and harriers amongst many others over the years .. oops I’m doing it again, sorry to ramble, where was I? Yes, about the hen bird. Well, as it happens I spoke to the former owner of Homer yesterday and he has promised to give me one of the hens that Homer liked (very romantic), the same “make” as him apparently, a Van Den Bosche, (though I don’t really understand about the different types yet). I’ve offered to go to Gateshead and collect her as we still go north quite frequently (and to Bolton )). If it all falls through I would love to be able to come back to you though. And thanks again for the kind thought.

Have good weekend.

Philip


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## Philip (May 13, 2003)

Cynthia!..... lol you posted while I was busy on the other reply.

Thanks very much indeed for the aviary link. I will CERTAINLY check it out right away ).

Philip


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

(probably due to my incompetence)
No it's called inexperience Philip. It's a stage we all have to go through. 
Glad you've got a hen sorted but you're welcome to contact me if you would like any more. I breed fancy colours, mainly rollers and tumblers- next time you're coming to Bolton give me a shout and you can run over the moors to see them if you wish.


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

(Giggle)
You could call your hen Odessa!
Remember - Homer wrote the Odyssey!


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## Philip (May 13, 2003)

Too funny, you stole my thunder ) .. I was about to ask if anyone could think of a female Greek philosopher as the nearest I could get with my meagre knowledge of the classics was the poetess Sappho which somehow didn’t strike the right tone! .. lol. But Odessa is just fine - very refined sounding in fact; Homer will approve ).

Now we’ve done the hard part all we have to do is get the loft and the pigeon to go with the name!


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Phillip,

Back to the subject of Brightness I suspect that you may be right about the egg binding, although I think she was probably beyond the point of no return when you found her. Last year Mary found a pigeon having fits similar to the ones you described. At first it appeared to be a case of poisoning but it turned out that she was egg-bound.

The reason I am writing this is so that we can all be aware of the symptoms and have the appropriate treatment. I have bought some liquid calcium for my meds cabinet but am still unsure of what else would make an egg bound pigeon comfortable. Can anyone else advise?

I will try to find Mary's post about "Eggy" (as she was subsequently named) and bump it up.

Cynthia


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I found the thread but it had been closed so I couldn't bump it up. It was in General Discussions on July 4th last year and called Help!!!Help!! Help!!!

Amazingly the pigeon survived after being treated at Mary's rehab centre.

This is what Fred posted about care:

_First and foremost, a warm, quiet environment will allow the bird to focus it's reserves on passing the egg rather than keeping warm. 

An immediate increase in calcium will do nothing to harden the shell of an already formed egg but will do wonders in improving the muscle action needed to expel the egg. Calcivet by Vetafarm, provides not only the calcium, but also the D3 needed to absorb the calcium. It can be served in the drinking water or sprouted seed if the bird is still eating and drinking. If the bird has stopped eating and drinking, it can be administered directly into the crop. 

Massaging a small amount of vegetable oil around the vent will help soften the mucus membranes around the vent and help the hen pass the egg._

Cynthia


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## Philip (May 13, 2003)

Yes thanks for this Cynthia. Actually I had read the "Help, Help, Help" thread (I did a search on egg binding and read all the threads!!) and it was what got me thinking about the calcium issue. I'm definitely going to get a stock of the soluble calcium Fred suggests if I can find the retailer. I don’t think Vetark sell it though. My theory with Brightness is that she was egg bound and too exhausted to strain when we found her but that after she ate and drank she regained strength and started to convulse and thrash around interspersed with periods of exhaustion. She may well have show no sign of having an egg when her owner basketed her on the Friday, but the release from Fareham was on Saturday and she wasn’t brought to me until Thursday i.e. nearly a week later. Thanks for trying to help me work things out on this, your concern is much appreciated )

Philip

PS Btw, sorry to be naive on this, but can hens have eggs without having been near cocks? I read Tara’s threads on Bacon (very sad) and it seemed like Bacon was always laying.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Philip,

Yes, hens will often lay eggs even though there is no male anywhere around. Then on the other hand, I have females that went literally for years without laying an egg, and then suddenly eggs start happening. I think this happens when they finally do catch sight of a likely mate and it triggers the egg laying.

Terry Whatley


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Philip
In an emergency you can use grated cuttlefish bone. It's our calcium - but you must give a vit supplement too.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Philip,

I got the liquid calcium from Vetark. It is called Zolcal D and contains vitamin D3.

Cynthia


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## Philip (May 13, 2003)

Hello Terry

Thanks. I suspected as much.

Helen thanks again )

Cynthia - I did look honest! ... lol. All these brand names are so confusing, and having to figure out whether someone is from the US before you take any notice of their brand names is even more confusing. But then I am easily confused <g>

Homer is cooing away now every time I feed him and he will take half peanuts from my hand no problem. Still doesn’t like me touching him much. Growls at me and occasionally jabs ...lol. But I can tell he is not really scared anymore just annoyed I’m disturbing his snooze I think!

Philip


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## Philip (May 13, 2003)

This is a good article on apple cider vinegar:
http://www.racingbirds.com/remedies1.html


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## Philip (May 13, 2003)

Just to let anyone who's interested know the progress on Homer. He is livelier everyday, trotting out of the box and padding around the hall today. I put a 1" x 1" timber perch in his box which he loves, roosts on it nearly all the time now. His bandage comes off in a week, and frankly it would be nice if he could fly, but whether he can or not he's staying now - he is such a sweetie!

In between English showers I've been making a base for his new loft which has taken two days. The loft arrives mid week next week. I call it a loft but it is actually a modfied "cat palace". Cost a fortune, but as the L'Oreal ad says "He's worth it" ... lol

Philip

PS Humm, not sure now whether it was the L'Oreal ad or not"


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Yes, I am pretty sure it was L'Oreal....they test cosmetics on animals, and I always think nobody is worth that!

Have you found Homer a lady friend yet? If not, have I got a hen for you! (Or even has Helen got a hen for you!)

Cynthia


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## Philip (May 13, 2003)

Cynthia

Totally agree with you about animal testing for cosmetics. I'd go further actually, I disagree with hurting or killing animals to test anything for humans even so called life saving medical testing. 

Anyway Homer is going to have an arranged marriage (I always wanted to be an interfering parent <g>) probably a midsummer marriage. The full works, and reception in the aviary after. All invited. RSVP. (Roosting Shortage V Perches only). 

Seriously, the former owner of Homer is going to give us a little hen in about July or August. Meantime I am going to keep him company and hopefully tame him completely ). But thanks again for the kind thought, if anything goes wrong and the bride doesn't show poor Homer will be glad to take up your offer.

Philip


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## JeannieN (May 24, 2003)

Philip, you're posts are absolutely inspiring. What a lucky bird Homer is to have found you. You are doing an outstanding job!
I myself just found a lost racer a few days ago, a hen, I think. I've taken her home to rest and recuperate. I'm brand new to pigeons and birds in general, so I'm trying to give myself a crash course on basic care, etc. I did locate the owner, who has said I may keep the bird. The bird had been lost to hime for some time (approx. 2 years!), and I have no idea where her home was in the interim. When I found her, she was so exhausted she couldn't even hop from the pavement onto the sidewalk. She was quite easy to capture and didn't seem frightened of me at all. I put her on a rolled up comforter on the passenger seat of my car and simply drove her home! She does not seem sick or injured in any way. She has been eating and drinking enthusiastically from the start. She is really so sweet and lovable. Now I am onto the bigger, philosophical decision about what to do with her. I'm with you, there is something about racing pigeons that seems inherently cruel, or at least mean, to me. No pigeon would willingly subject itself to these kinds of condidions, would it? It seems like exploiting their amazing natural abilities for the sake of human entertainment. Makes me ill.
Anyway, I'm not sure I'm in the position to take her into my house. I can't let her fly around my small apartment, as I have a cat (who is separated from the bird right now). It seems mean to keep this magnificent bird in a cage, no? And I'm definitely not able at present to build an aviary. So I guess I will have to decide on whether to release her and see what happens, or try to place her for adoption.
Or, maybe just scratch everything I just said and find a way to keep her myself!
Any thoughts, insights, etc. are greatly appreciated.
I will continue to follow your and Homer's story.

Jeanne


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## Philip (May 13, 2003)

Jeanne

Thanks for your kind words and sorry to be so long coming back to you. Yes, pigeons are sweet. I’ve looked after quite a few birds both aviary birds and wild and I’d have to say that pigeons in general seem to have very placid loving and intelligent characters. Your hen sounds typically responsive but I can quite see why it might be difficult to keep her. If she can fly well and she has been away from her owner for 2 years then I guess you might release her, maybe she has been living wild. But then again I wonder how she got in such a state, perhaps if you can’t keep her it would be best to try and find an adopter would could at least take a knowledgeable look at her. Failing that, put her on the next transatlantic flight to Heathrow and she can meet our Homer ).

Seriously though there are many people on this site who I think have pigeons wandering round their houses, they can even be toilet trained I believe!

Please tell us what you decide to do.

Philip


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