# Crippled Pigeon



## atti (Nov 8, 2009)

Hi, I have a pigeon (Reva) who can't walk. When I got her I was told she had a broken leg that was healing. After getting a better look I suspected splay leg since one leg stuck out to the side and the toes on the other curled to the side. I brought her to an avian vet and he told me it was broken but she would learn to hop on the other one. (resetting the broken leg would cost $1,000 and on a fixed income I could not afford it.)
Well she can't hop and now the second leg is starting to stick out too, also her rump/tail feathers point to the side now. I'm wondering if the problem is congenital? I called the vet and he said they'd have to run tests. I don't know when I'll be able to do that. In the meantime does anyone have any thoughts about what's going on and possible treatments?
If this wasn't bad enough she also can't fly now because she broke her flight feathers from dragging herself and beating them against the cage. Now I keep her in a cat bed with a towel and bring her food and water.

I should add that I don't raise pigeons. This all started when I found two fledglings (Lucie and Louie) in a busy parking lot. I brought them home to raise and release but Lucie stayed. She'd get so upset in the evening when roosting I'd have to sit outside with her until dark. So I went looking for a companion. Only bird I could find was a baby someone found and couldn't care for- Rocky. He's become the light of my life- but was too young to go outside. Lucie couldn't wait and finally took off. Enter Reva.

I've also been caring for a wild pigeon that was shot with a pellet gun (Leo). His wound has healed nicely but I guess muscle damage is preventing flight.
And Rocky disappeared for a week and a half, a very sad time. Turned out someone in the neighborhood keeps a window cracked open so his cats can come and go. He came home to find Rocky sitting in his chair with a hurt wing and dropped him off at the vet! Nice guy. But now I have 3 pigeons and none of them can fly!
Sorry for rambling, but this has been quite a journey. With my 3 cats my family has basically doubled. (but I'm hoping Leo will be able to return to his flock.)
Thanks for reading and I appreciate any advice about Reva.


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## plamenh (Aug 11, 2006)

Would you please post a picture of Reva, how old is it, any problems with eating pooping. Where are you situated. More info may help finding out what is wrong and solution.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

HI Atti and welcome! Thank you so much for helping these birds. Can you let us know where you are located in case we know of some resources for you in your area? 

Pictures would be REALLY helpful if you can post some ..

Terry


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Stupid vet could have at least splinted and stabilzed the hurt leg so there'd be some bone & scar tissue growth to make it heal with some semblance of stability - that only would have taken 10 minutes or so (sorry but that really makes me angry)  Post some pics - perhaps some things can be done to improve Reva's situation


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## atti (Nov 8, 2009)

plamenh- No problems with eating. Her poops are fairly firm but smelly, and sometimes have brown or green mixed in with the white. However they've been eating a mixture of wild bird, cockatiel and parakeet seeds. Today I will pick up proper pigeon feed, unless I have to wait and order it.

TAWhatley- Thank you for the welcome! I live in Magalia, CA. I haven't used a photo hosting website in years, but I will try to set one up soon and get pics.

Jaye- I'm not sure a splint would have helped at that point. She was still a kid then, but fully feathered and this problem didn't appear to be recent. I do wonder why the vet thought the leg was broken though.

As for her age- she must have been about 25-30 days old when I got her and that was 3 months ago so she should be around 4 months old now.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Atti...the poops shouldn't be smelly. She may have canker which is not a big deal to treat as most Pigeons carry it in their system, and you can buy the medicine to treat it at Jedd's Pigeon Supply. A common medicine used to treat canker is Spartrix or Metronidazole. 

Tell us...does she have one good leg?


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## atti (Nov 8, 2009)

Charis- She was treated for canker with metronidizole when I got her in September. I'll check her throat to see if it came back. She also had a parasite (can't remember what the vet said it was) that was treated with Baytril. Rocky was also treated at the same time, just in case he had them.

When I got her the left leg was vertical but the toes curled. Now that leg is also sticking out to the side. She's never been kept on a slick surface since I've had her.
So sadly, no good leg now.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Here's an interesting article on canker. Just because you can't see canker in the mouth or throat, doesn't mean the bird doesn't have an overload, in fact it can just as likely be internal form.

It's a shame about the leg.

http://www.auspigeonco.com.au/products/veterinary_medicines2.html


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## plamenh (Aug 11, 2006)

You should try splay leg correction. If the problem is not recent, why didn't you take steps sooner. Leg/wing problems does not disapear by themself.
What I would do is use sponge method to fix legs together








and place him in the sling to take weight of the legs









It is slow process best to be used the moment problem appears but it may work with your pigeon.


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## atti (Nov 8, 2009)

plamenh- I said the problem didn't appear to be recent. I would think the original person who bred her and raised her for a month should have tried correcting a potential splay leg. She didn't. Instead she told me the bird had a healing broken leg. 
I'm well aware that leg/wing problems don't take care of themselves. Which is why, after picking her up on a Saturday evening, I got her to an avian vet on Monday. Problem is, he backed up her diagnosis. And as I said in an earlier post- he assured me Reva would learn to hop on the good leg, even though the toes twisted to the side. I trusted the expert. He was wrong. Now I'm here asking advice, and will soon post a pic.
Trust me- I'm doing everything I can for her on my meager means. 
From what I've read treating splay legs (if that's even what she has) has to be done in the first few weeks. If you have experience with it helping at 4 months old I will certainly try it.


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## doveone52 (Aug 3, 2009)

My heart goes out to you for everything you're doing. You came to the right place for help. Everyone on this site is phenomenal in their knowledge of pigeons and just exceptionally good, caring human beings. 
I have no doubt caring for 3 flightless birds is a huge burden! It warms my heart that there are people like you in the world!


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Atti - l also echo those who thank you for your concern for your pigeon friend. lt is a bit frustrating however reading some of your replies to suggestions - _regardless of whether injuries were recent or not, _folks here are giving you some advice on things to try to give your friend a decent quality of life, as the condition seems to be devolving. Correcting the good leg at least (my suggestion is to create a sort of 'shoe sole' out of cardboard or plastic which prevents the toes from curling underneath her leg taped to her foot - as well as Plamenh's suggestion of bringing the legs together) may help matters. lt also doesn't matter if the leg condition was old or recent - your description sounded like the vet properly diagnosed a broken leg - and if so he\she should have offered some form of corrective step which did not require a $1000 surgery, because there are some alternatives. So, you have received some decent advice on what you can do as far as the legs and also regarding the possible return of canker.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

OK, let's not knock the poster. This person has said they are willing to try corrective treatment for splay leg. So *has* anyone tried it for a pigeon of this age or not? 

Jaye's suggestion for correcting the toes is worth trying, too. Feefo used what she calls a foot glove for some birds - this is from an old post (the company name - a pharmacy chain in UK - won't be relevant, but I expect self-adhesive bandage is available all over)



> Boots sell a blue self adhesive support bandage, it has a picture of a bandaged elbow in the box.
> 
> What you have to do is spread the foot out and put it between two layers of the bandage then press the bandage between the toes so it adheres to itself. I call that a foot glove.


Also you may find this topic of interest - concerning one of our splay-legged birds. Post #1 

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=8151&highlight=foot+glove 

The ref to Webshots will include two albums relevant - one is Foot Glove the other is Splay Leg

http://community.webshots.com/user/cyro51

This pigeon was only about 6 weeks at the time the legs were corrected, however.

John


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## atti (Nov 8, 2009)

Thank you so much doveone52. Rocky is doing much better. He even made it to the top of the bookcase last night- his favorite spot to sleep. You're right, it has been a bit overwhelming. But that's because I'm also dealing with one cat that has urine crystals and another that had a bout of his chronic bacterial infection. The infection gets into his brain and he acts brain-damaged. At least we found an antibiotic that works, but it comes back a few times a year.
And I'm constantly having to police the whole bird/cat situation. The biggest issue is Rocky attacking them and driving them out of their beds!

John_D- Thank you, too. I will look at those links. Hopefully things will be clearer when I post pics. One of the problems is her once good leg also sticks out now.
I set up an account with a photo site but every time I try to take pics she starts flopping and beating her wings. I may have to wait until my friend gets here so he can hold her. Thanks again.


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## atti (Nov 8, 2009)

Sorry I couldn't get better pictures. My camera isn't that great. Hopefully these pics will still help make her problems clearer.

Original bad leg and now tail/rump turned to the side:










Front view showing original bad leg and newly bad leg:










Another front view showing both legs and rump:


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## atti (Nov 8, 2009)

As long as I mentioned them, 

here's Leo, rehabbing from a pellet gun shot:










And the boss, my Rocky:


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Atti,

Boy! You have your hands full there with needy pigeons! Bless you for helping them.

The photos are very informative, and I appreciate you posting them.

My personal opinion is that the lovely little splay legged pigeon is NOT fixable by anything short of surgery by a very skilled vet and perhaps not even then. The bird is old enough and large enough that those bones and joints are pretty much "set" the way they are. 

I have tried a couple of times to at least improve upon a bird that came in with very similar problems to yours, and it just wasn't doable and the attempt was extremely uncomfortable for the bird and for me.

Though I may get chastised for my honesty with you here, I don't think that little bird with the splayed legs is fixable pretty much regardless of what you try or how much you might spend on veterinary surgery.

I have also kept and tried to keep birds that are as crippled as your little one. A few of them I was able to give a decent quality of life for a few years, but it's a daunting undertaking for both the bird and yourself.

I think you are facing having to make a difficult decision regarding this little bird .. keep it and do your best to keep it comfortable with some quality of life or have the youngster put to sleep.

Terry


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

In looking at the poor little thing, I'm inclined to agree that the bird is too old to fix the legs by just setting them now. Maybe with surgery. The other leg probably grew outward because of him being on his belly all the time because of the other leg. Trying to pull them together now would probably just be uncomfortable for him, and very stressful. Too bad. These things are usually so easy to fix if done early on.


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## atti (Nov 8, 2009)

Thank you both for the replies. I was afraid this was the case.

TAWhatley- I actually expected the avian vet would reccommend she be put down. (Both he and his tech raise pigeons, and the tech at least also races them, so I figured he would know what's wrong.) After knowing her for less than 2 days I was prepared to do that- or at least as prepared as you can ever be. Now I can't do it, so long as she isn't suffering.
Since you have experience with birds in this state would you mind sharing a little more about how things went? Does this condition cause pain?
Reva has been more agitated these last few weeks, even pecking my friend and Rocky at times. Also flapping a lot which means I have to wrap her before giving her food and water. But I think this may have started when I stopped taking her out of the bed. I used to let her get about on the carpet just so she wouldn't feel so trapped. But instead of just trying to get to a certain spot she was flopping frantically and getting minor injuries in the process so I stopped. (still move her bed to give her a change of scenery).
I think she will be happier when she's able to fly again. For a while the broken feathers were falling out and I thought she was molting but new ones haven't grown in yet. When do they normally molt? 
It's not easy caring for her with my health issues and all these other critters needing attention too but I will give her the best life I can. Any advice you can give me based on your experiences would be greatly appreciated.


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## atti (Nov 8, 2009)

Another question- you mentioned some of your birds lived for a few years. Does that mean they die earlier? Or does it mean the quality of life degrades over time and it becomes kinder to put them down?
I hate even contemplating these scenarios but I also want to be educated and prepared. While I've had experience with a lot of different kinds of animals/birds I'm new to pigeons. I didn't even know what splay leg was. Her legs looked splayed and so that's what I entered in the google search. That's when I found out it was the actual name of the condition.

P.S. I corrected it before posting, but Rocky walked across the keyboard while I was typing and changed my text. A while back he managed to rename one of my bookmarks- fr8l'. It's a CA news discussion forum. I left it as fr8l'. He knows he's not allowed on my laptop and usually jumps on when I'm out of the room or busy doing something else. He's such a brat. 
Sorry, I know I went off topic. Sometimes it helps to think about the wonderful things our animals give us when also dealing with the sad situations.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

atti said:


> Thank you both for the replies. I was afraid this was the case.
> 
> TAWhatley- I actually expected the avian vet would reccommend she be put down. (Both he and his tech raise pigeons, and the tech at least also races them, so I figured he would know what's wrong.) After knowing her for less than 2 days I was prepared to do that- or at least as prepared as you can ever be. Now I can't do it, so long as she isn't suffering.
> Since you have experience with birds in this state would you mind sharing a little more about how things went? Does this condition cause pain?
> ...


I'm sorry the two of you are having such a bad time of it. I have a pigeon with a splayed leg, but thankfully he can now stand on the good leg, and can fly. Your bird is probably flapping because she is trying to fly and doesn't understand why she can't. How much was she flying before? With those legs the way they are, I would be concerned about the landings. Wouldn't want her to hurt herself, and with no landing gear, I would think she must come down with a thud. My Scooter had a hard time with landings, and he had one good leg. Just had to learn how to use it, and build it up. So I made sure that there wasn't anything hard for him to crash land on. We keep him in a cage with a folded towel, then one of those lambs wool pieces of material covers that, then a hand towel to cover that. It's easy to change out the top towel each day, and the other layers less often than daily. It is soft for his tummy, as he is always on the bottom of the cage. He gets around by pushing with the bad leg, so the cage bottom must be padded, but because he does also get up now, I didn't want it too padded, or that would make it difficult for him to stand. Is she stuck in the nest so that she can't move about at all? I would think that she would find that frustrating. How well does she move around when not in the nest?


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## atti (Nov 8, 2009)

She had been doing what I would call "level flights" for a month. (meaning she could fly across two points). She only had a couple of weeks of "lift off" flights. (taking off from the ground). I would be afraid of of ever caging her again, no matter how big the coop/cage was. The one she was in was about 2 feet all the way around and she only had to stay in it at night. She still beat her wings against it.
She's in a large cat bed but can only flop about a little bit. She (naturally) gets very upset when she's sitting on poop so I'm constantly cleaning or replacing the towel.
She used to drag/push herself when on the ground. Now it's just frantic flopping, with no obvious direction apparent.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The poor thing probably would like to get across the cage or room, and has no idea of how to do it. With Scooter, he would sit with the good leg folded up under him, and use the splayed leg like a little hand to grab or push. He could turn himself around, and learned how to push himself in the direction that he wanted to go in. He did start to rub a little area on the splayed leg a little bit raw, but I put an antiseptic on it, and gave him more padding. I exercised his good leg, and encouraged him to fly. Eventually, he did learn how to get up on that good leg, so that he could more easily take flight. I imagine that he would be very bored if left in his cage all the time without a change. Pigeons are very smart and inquisitive. We both work, but when I am home, he is out of the cage a good deal of the time. He spent a lot of time on my husbands lap on a little blanket. But he would try to fly over to me a few feet away at the computer, so I built him a little shelf to sit on and keep me company. He absolutely loves it, and when we take him from his cage, will fly to it. This way he can be near me, and watch me, and I can interact with him. I'm planning on putting up different shelves for him to be near us in different places. He needs interaction. So does your little bird. She can't just sit in one place all day with no attention. You mentioned that you have to wrap her before giving her food and water. Why doesn't she eat on her own, or drink on her own? Even when Scooter didn't stand, he could eat from a small crock. He drank from a small crock also. Doesn't your bird feed herself?


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## atti (Nov 8, 2009)

Please don't misunderstand, while she's in the catbed most of the time she is beside me on the couch, or in the bathroom while I bathe, when it was warmer outside while I raked, etc. She also sits on my lap with a towel. She is not going without attention.
I have to bring food and water to her because she can't maneuver herself to the dishes. This way she can then eat/drink by herself. The wrapping is because she gets so excited/aggravated that seeds and water go flying otherwise.
I'm so glad your Scooter has a good leg. It also sounds like you're a really good pigeon mom. I think if Reva's breeder had taken care of her, or the vet had given better advice, Reva maybe would have a better life.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I'm sorry I misunderstood. You sound a lot like me bringing him along when I do different things. Sounds like you are trying very hard with him. Yes, probably if it had been addressed at an early stage, it would have been able to be healed. That's sad. Tell me, what is it that you put the feed and water in when you feed her? And how often do you feed her? Can she be placed in front of heavy little crock dishes that she can't spill over? It would be soooooooo much better if she could have some sort of dish that she could eat from that wouldn't spill, and could feed herself. Don't know if that's possible, as I'm not there seeing it and you are, but if she could be that independent, and be able to do that, that would greatly improve her quality of life. If there were a place on the floor that you could maybe put down a bit of extra padding so that she could move around, what would she do? And if you could put very heavy little crocks in front of her to eat and drink from, what would she do? It's hard when I can't actually see what she does. Please don't feel that I'm finding fault. I'm not. It's just that I would have to keep trying different things until I hit on something that would work. And it's difficult when I can't see what she does or how she reacts and moves. Just trying to think of things that could possibly improve her and your lives. I know how hard it is, believe me. When I started with Scooter, he didn't really eat or drink. Just sat there. It was just so sad. And I know you are doing everything you can think of to help the situation.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Atti,

As Jay3 has posted there needs to be padding for crippled birds in order to try and lessen the chance of abrasions developing from the bird constantly dragging and putting pressure on various body parts. 

In my experience with severely crippled pigeons, the two biggest hurdles are keeping the sores and injuries that happen to a minimum and trying to keep the frustration level of the bird at as low a level as possible .. this second hurdle is actually more difficult than the first. This is especially true with youngsters who seem to have no concept of the fact that their mobility is limited or at least severely impaired. Over time they will flail and flap wildly in their attempts to move around and be independent. Generally this results in more sores and injuries and even more frustration for them because they simply can't attain the mobility they so desperately want. When that frustration level gets to the point that the bird is constantly flailing and flapping, then I think it's time to let it go peacefully.

With some older/adult birds, they seem to do a better job of realizing that something is wrong and will fairly quickly figure out how to exist with the handicap(s) they have. I had an adult female named Bandit for about 3 years who had very limited use of her legs and could not stand at all. She could, however, scoot around her padded cage and seemed to be reasonably happy for the time I had her. She even laid strange little very skinny and oblong eggs .. I presume the eggs were that way from being on her side all the time. 

I admire you for your dedication to and desire to help this young pigeon of yours, and I wish you well in this very difficult undertaking. Always keep the best interests of the pigeon foremost, and if/when things get too rough for the little bird, then I know you will make that final act of kindness happen.

Terry


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## atti (Nov 8, 2009)

It's okay Jay3. I know you're trying to help her, and me. 
She does eat out of ceramic dishes but they have to be shallow so she can reach them. There's no way to set them on the cat bed for free choice because her flapping would spill the contents.
I have 3 cats and they have been unbelievably patient with these pigeons. I remember promising them months ago that these birds would be living outside soon. Yeah, that ain't happening anytime soon. In spite of their patience I wouldn't trust them around a bird flopping on the floor, unable to fly. In her bed they ignore her. (well one cat used to smack her, sans claws, when she flapped at him. He just felt he was giving back what she was dealing.Now he ignores her)
Even though her legs prevent good landing I think (hope) when she's able to fly again things will improve.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Terry, what did the bird finally die of?


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## atti (Nov 8, 2009)

TAWhatley said:


> Hi Atti,
> 
> As Jay3 has posted there needs to be padding for crippled birds in order to try and lessen the chance of abrasions developing from the bird constantly dragging and putting pressure on various body parts.
> 
> ...


Terry, I'm so grateful that you are sharing your experiences, and so kindly telling me what might have to happen. I hope it's not wrong of me to hang on and hope that her wing feathers growing back might change things. From what you wrote I get the feeling that broken feathers might be constant. But if she's never caged again would that be different? Or would her attempts at crawling with them continue the breakage?

Please don't say you admire me. I don't want to blamed either, but I'm just trying to do the right thing by this little bird. You, and Jay3 and everyone else trying to help her and I deserve admiration.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Jay3 said:


> Terry, what did the bird finally die of?


Don't know Jay3 .. here is a poor picture of her:









Terry


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

She may grow her feathers back, and she may not break them in trying to get around. And she may be able to fly, but she could be hurt in her crash landings. Can she pull that better leg up to her tummy at all? Or is it always out to the side now. When we practiced Scooters flying, I always made sure he was flying toward something soft to land on. On occasion, after he got the hang of flying, he would sometimes turn midair and go toward something more solid to land on, then I would try to get my hand underneath him to kind of catch him and break the hard landing. But I never just let him fly loose without my being there, as he could crash, and you never know how or where they will land when they don't have 2 good legs. They can get hurt. How will you be able to supervise his flying if he is on a cat bed and can just take off at any time. You may not be around.

And I know you say your cats don't bother with him, but with animals, you just never know. So they should never be left alone with him. I have 2 dogs. One that would pounce on him in a second if given the opportunity, and the other one doesn't generally bother with chasing birds, but I would never trust either one alone with Scooter, because you just never know. And it is my responsibility to keep him safe. How do you keep a pigeon safe when it can fly, and maybe have a bad landing,or get caught somewhere, or get into trouble, but you cannot cage him? Again, I'm not trying to look for trouble, just being a realist. You can't be with him 24/7. How will you keep him safe if he is able to fly?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

TAWhatley said:


> Don't know Jay3 .. here is a poor picture of her:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Aww. Would that right leg not straighten? Or did it splay out as well. I was afraid that scooters good leg that he kept tucked up under him all the time would contract that way, so I used to exercise it, and stretch it out. I still do, just not as much now that he does get up on it.
Thanks for posting the picture Terry.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Atti,

You've made a commitment to this little pigeon, so go with it, but know that at some point you may have to call it a day. You will know if and when this time comes. You are in for endless poop cleaning because the little one can't do anything about it nor keep itself clean, and you HAVE to be very, very aware of what "damage" the bird is doing to itself in trying to move around. If you let sores develop and become infected, then you have another problem on your hands.

I understand that you have to do what your heart tells you to. 

Terry


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Jay3 said:


> Aww. Would that right leg not straighten? Or did it splay out as well. I was afraid that scooters good leg that he kept tucked up under him all the time would contract that way, so I used to exercise it, and stretch it out. I still do, just not as much now that he does get up on it.
> Thanks for posting the picture Terry.


Bandit wasn't splayed .. she just couldn't use her legs other than to "scoot" around a cage. I suspect she had back or neck injuries that caused this. She could not stand up but could "scrabble" her legs to scoot around.

Terry


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

TAWhatley said:


> Bandit wasn't splayed .. she just couldn't use her legs other than to "scoot" around a cage. I suspect she had back or neck injuries that caused this. She could not stand up but could "scrabble" her legs to scoot around.
> 
> Terry


Oh.........that's too bad.


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## superflyer (Sep 13, 2008)

Say I think the pigeon has systemic paratyphoid that has gone into the bones and joints. I'm not sure how to treat it.


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