# Raffle for chance to win IMPORT hen



## Eriduardo (Aug 28, 2006)

Due to some unforeseen family problems and expenses, I am interested in finding out how many of you would be interested in winning a 2011 Janssen/Jos van Limpt-De Klak *IMPORT* hen. For $5 dollars/ticket or 2 tickets for $8 you can buy yourself a chance to win this hen. Pictures and ped to follow. This is not official yet just wanting to know how many of you would be interested and if there would be enough participants. Box & Shipping expenses covered by me. If you're are interested let me know you can PM me or email me [email protected].

US Mainland Only 

**Unofficial**

Please email me the following info:

PT User name:
Name:
Loft name:
Email or Phone #:
# of tickets interested in:

To [email protected]

This would be very helpful specially in keeping data straight as I'm receiving emails with just names and no connection to pt. This would help me better to generate a list. Thanks.


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## ericwadde3 (Oct 1, 2012)

I may be interested


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## Eriduardo (Aug 28, 2006)

*Here are the Pictures*

Here are the pictures for all of you asking to see pictures and hopefully spark some more interest. If I don't see all the participation I expect she may just end up on an auction. I wanted to offer this opportunity on here first.


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## Eriduardo (Aug 28, 2006)

Sire: NL 05-1945298 son De Knook v.'97 x De Raket '97. 100% Jos van Limpt-De Klak

Dam: NL 04-2224575 lines of Janssen A.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

So where is the cash that could be raised through a raffle going? The purpose of a raffle is to raise funds for a deserving cause or project, not for somebody's pocket


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## Eriduardo (Aug 28, 2006)

Hi John_D,

Not necessarily do I agree with you, it's my business what to and where the money goes. I clearly stated that I have family problems and expenses that came up. It's your choice whether you want to enter or not. I paid good money for the bird and I believe I can do what I want with it. Importing is expensive not everybody can afford that, so I thought why not give somebody the option to own a bird for less than 1% of what it cost me to import. I know that if I try to sell it I will not get more than maybe half, if that, of what it cost me. Not just anyone has 4 or 5 hundred dollars that they can let go just like that. By the way thats just a fraction of my cost. So if you need to know exactly where the money is going I'll tell you. Just know that when people say they have family problems or things came up they say it like that so that they don't put all their business out there like that and especially over the Internet. I've been almost a month unemployed bills have started to come in, have not been able to find a job yet. I have no way of paying that and my rent. My put away funds have diminished and my family has resorted to eating rice and beans every day. I'm confident I'll find something here soon. I live in Elkhart, Indiana where the economic recession hit it's hardest and unemployment was at over 13% and it's been slowly getting better. I'm sorry if this is not a deserving cause to you. Anything else you need to know inbox me.

Erik



John_D said:


> So where is the cash that could be raised through a raffle going? The purpose of a raffle is to raise funds for a deserving cause or project, not for somebody's pocket


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## tjc1 (Aug 22, 2012)

I thinks it's a great way for somebody to get a bird at a fraction of the cost and for you to get some money to help you out. Even though I have rollers and fantails I think that bird is a beauty. I am in for 2 tickets if you do it. Hope you get a bunch of people to help you out.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

DeKlak pigeons were sold at auction for THOUSANDS of dollars...Makes me wonder how a bird could be sold for maybe a few hundred dollars,that was from DeKlak.....Chic Brooks bought a few that averaged $30,000.00 each.....Alamo


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## pigeon is fun (Sep 6, 2010)

2 tickets for me please.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Thank you. I simply wanted clarification, OK? As you say, you were offering the bird due to family problems, but it was not clear what the 'raffle' was to achieve. I am not interested in a ticket, but I am interested in what happens on the forum from an admin viewpoint.


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## akbird (Apr 29, 2010)

Not to downplay your situation but just to add some information. It costs about $175 to import a bird. I just imported 2 recently. I am curious as to where you bought the bird (PIPA or ?)? This bird is not of just one strain, it is multiple strains so the De Klak price tag is not applicable here. I wish you the best of luck in finding a job. This economy has taken a real toll on all of us and I hope it will improve for you soon. It may help your chances of getting more $ for the bird if you can list what it has bred or if it has won any prizes.


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## V-John (May 15, 2008)

You have our support. Hell, I figure if I can help him out, then that's good enough for me.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

If I was in the US I would by a ticket just on the chance its a good bird and based on it being a good cause to help another pigeon fancier.


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## ThePigeonShack (Jun 14, 2012)

Im in, I have some BAD ASS DeKlaks straight from Hapyco and would like to take the chance at acquiring more.

COUNT ME IN

Please PM me when you are ready to start.


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## Eriduardo (Aug 28, 2006)

Thanks for all of the support guys and to all the interested. If you know anything about Jos van Limpt he was well know for acquiring Janssen A. pigeons and doing extraordinarily well with them I wouldn't consider this bird multiple strains based on the breeding it's a Janssen bird. I'm not lookin to make a fortune on the bird just trying to make some of my money back. I'm not wanting to make the odds of winning high and discourage all those interested. Based on what I have seen imports go for at rock bottom prices on auction drives me away from posting it on and auction. But if if dont get enough participation I might just end up having to do it. Before that I'd probably offer it here on the forum for a set price or take offers. I thought this would be a great and fun way to sell the bird and for someone really wanting it not having that kind of funds to have chance at it.


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## Josepe (Jan 10, 2011)

It may help if you list it's racing background if any, and it's breeding background(what's the bird produced for you?).Naturally both would contribute to it's possible value and interest in the bird.


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## Eriduardo (Aug 28, 2006)

I bought her as a young bird. Don't think she raced. But I'd think she would have done very well. Her sire raced, I believe and all 4 grand parents. I'm working on getting the pedigree up just need to figure out how to get a decent readable picture. I have 6 direct children of hers and another import in my stock loft which I may end up selling as well. They're all very nice.



Josepe said:


> It may help if you list it's racing background if any, and it's breeding background(what's the bird produced for you?).Naturally both would contribute to it's possible value and interest in the bird.


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## Eriduardo (Aug 28, 2006)

Thank you NZ Pigeon. My son's name is also Evan. 



NZ Pigeon said:


> If I was in the US I would by a ticket just on the chance its a good bird and based on it being a good cause to help another pigeon fancier.


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## benson1 (Jun 1, 2013)

Eriduardo said:


> Hi John_D,
> 
> Not necessarily do I agree with you, it's my business what to and where the money goes. I clearly stated that I have family problems and expenses that came up. It's your choice whether you want to enter or not. I paid good money for the bird and I believe I can do what I want with it. Importing is expensive not everybody can afford that, so I thought why not give somebody the option to own a bird for less than 1% of what it cost me to import. I know that if I try to sell it I will not get more than maybe half, if that, of what it cost me. Not just anyone has 4 or 5 hundred dollars that they can let go just like that. By the way thats just a fraction of my cost. So if you need to know exactly where the money is going I'll tell you. Just know that when people say they have family problems or things came up they say it like that so that they don't put all their business out there like that and especially over the Internet. I've been almost a month unemployed bills have started to come in, have not been able to find a job yet. I have no way of paying that and my rent. My put away funds have diminished and my family has resorted to eating rice and beans every day. I'm confident I'll find something here soon. I live in Elkhart, Indiana where the economic recession hit it's hardest and unemployment was at over 13% and it's been slowly getting better. I'm sorry if this is not a deserving cause to you. Anything else you need to know inbox me.
> 
> Erik


You stated your cause in your first post! I believe family problems constitutes just! You shouldn't have to explain yourself!
I'm down for your cause.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

benson1 said:


> You stated your cause in your first post! I believe family problems constitutes just! You shouldn't have to explain yourself!
> I'm down for your cause.


I'm on the same page, I thought a raffle was a competition where tickets were purchased with the opportunity to win a prize of a greater value than the cost of the ticket purchased, of course in most cases a raffle is held to fundraise for a community minded cause etc but not exclusively, I guess we all interpret things differently


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Eriduardo said:


> Thank you NZ Pigeon. My son's name is also Evan.


 COOL!!!!!!!!!


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

Still waiting for an answer to my post...How can someone sell a pigeon,that would/should have sold for many thousands of dollars,for a couple of hundred dollars ???? Alamo


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

The bird isn't De Klak, no one wants to pay a ton for a cross it seems like. He's prolly right he is looking at 150-200$ for her thats prolly loosing half his money.


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## Eriduardo (Aug 28, 2006)

I think you mal interpreted the information. The bird isn't direct Klak pigeon she descends from 100% Klak pigeons. And as for her being a cross call it what you want the way I see it, is that Jos van Limpt also known as De Klak acquired the Janssen's pigeons and was absolutely great with them straight. So as I said, to me all Klak's birds are Janssens. Therefore a Janssen crossed with a Klak is still considered Janssen to me.



Alamo said:


> Still waiting for an answer to my post...How can someone sell a pigeon,that would/should have sold for many thousands of dollars,for a couple of hundred dollars ???? Alamo


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## BCrUS (Oct 7, 2010)

Would you mind just posting the pedigree and then we can all figure if we are in or out? 
Thank you very much.


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## Eriduardo (Aug 28, 2006)

*Pedigree*

Alright guys sorry it took so long. I picked up a few lawn jobs for the mean time. coming home super tired. But here it is. I tried to get the best possible picture. I don't have a scanner, would have been great.


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

I would get a couple of tickets, just to help you out. I would not expect to win, but I would want the chance to get lucky and win.

However. I wonder how the "drawing" would be conducted and how we could be assured it was a fair drawing? I mean seriously, your buddy or neighbor could be the one you state had his or her name pulled out of the hat. Or, you could say that Joe BLow won, and Joe Blow might not even exist.

So, how do you envision the drawing would go? I know I do not know you and I would guess that few if any here, know you and your reputation for honesty and fairness.


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

conditionfreak said:


> I would get a couple of tickets, just to help you out. I would not expect to win, but I would want the chance to get lucky and win.
> 
> However. I wonder how the "drawing" would be conducted and how we could be assured it was a fair drawing? I mean seriously, your buddy or neighbor could be the one you state had his or her name pulled out of the hat. Or, you could say that Joe BLow won, and Joe Blow might not even exist.
> 
> So, how do you envision the drawing would go? I know I do not know you and I would guess that few if any here, know you and your reputation for honesty and fairness.


Very good point and I agree 100%. 

It's a great idea but very hard to pull off without concerns popping up. I would just put a price on the bird and call it a day.


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## benson1 (Jun 1, 2013)

Very simple process! I won some Bulls nuggets tickets this way...

(1) you take some old poker chips, Preferably white.

(2) Then say you have 100 Entry's, You number the chips 1-100 out on a table for everyone to see.

(3) use a clear plastic jug.

(4) get your sell phone out and video the process of the chips numbered 1-100 and putting them in the clear plastic jug so that you see no chips are taped or glued to the jug. Then you shake it up, put it around your back and draw a chip. When done poor out the remaining chips on the table and make sure they are all accounted for. post the video link and WINNER on the page...

Very Simple!!!


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

I agree with Benson, If the draw is conducted in this fashion there should be no need for one to feel suspicious they may not get a fair chance.


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## V-John (May 15, 2008)

Someone gave a bird and simply video taped his daughter drawing out the winning name and posted that.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

V-John said:


> Someone gave a bird and simply video taped his daughter drawing out the winning name and posted that.


Did the video show everyones bid or ticket being put into the basket?


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

Why not just post the bird on one of the auction sites & see what he gets for it.


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## Eriduardo (Aug 28, 2006)

I like this idea! I was thinking of ways we could do this and all your concerns are legit and understandable. As far as I know I don't think I have any neighbors on the forum, do I?. I would only offer this to you members of Pigeon-Talk. I'm looking for another 40-50 tickets so we can call this a go! My count is sitting at 51. Anymore takers? So far I think this is the best option to handle a fair and transparent raffle. Unless anybody else has a simpler fair idea. Hopefully I met my goal by the end of this week so I can hold the raffle sometime in a couple weeks. If not it may just end up going to the highest bidder. I've gotten a lot of emails and private messages with direct offers. Thanks for interest I'd like to follow through with this idea first then if doesn't work I'll just take a thought at the offers that's why I had to set a deadline. Thanks again.



benson1 said:


> Very simple process! I won some Bulls nuggets tickets this way...
> 
> (1) you take some old poker chips, Preferably white.
> 
> ...


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## V-John (May 15, 2008)

NZ Pigeon said:


> Did the video show everyones bid or ticket being put into the basket?


Admittedly, no but they did show the different names as they were being drawn. (there were several items being raffled for free and thus I trusted them.... But then again, I didnt have anything to lose....  )


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

bbcdon said:


> Why not just post the bird on one of the auction sites & see what he gets for it.


WHY?..................


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## ThaoLoft (Feb 28, 2012)

I would interested! TAKE MY MONEY! LOL.


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

conditionfreak said:


> I would get a couple of tickets, just to help you out. I would not expect to win, but I would want the chance to get lucky and win.
> .


Same here. I won't old my breath or complain if I dont win, but it's worth a few bucks for a bit of anticipation. I buy a lottery ticket here and there. I need another bird liked need another hole in my head. But if it helps you out and is a bit of fun ...

I'll buy 4 if I can pay via PayPal.


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## benson1 (Jun 1, 2013)

I would easily buy four also. just imagine how awesome it would be if you won! you might cherish the bird more then others and it wold make a great conversation piece.... not to mention your helping out a fellow racer!


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## Eriduardo (Aug 28, 2006)

Okay.....it's getting a little bit, well...very difficult to manage who wants in and who's just inquiring specially when they're coming from 3 different sources, getting a bit overwhelmed  . So what I'd like to happen to better manage this is I would like for everyone who is interested to please email me the following info:

PT User name:
Name:
Loft name:
Email or Phone #:
# of tickets interested in:

To [email protected]

This would be very helpful specially in keeping data straight as I'm receiving emails with just names and no connection to pt. This would help me better to generate a list. Thanks.


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

Not sure but I think it is illegal to hold a raffle for personal gain. If not everyone would be doing it for profit. I think only non profits can do it.


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## Eriduardo (Aug 28, 2006)

That's something to look into, wasn't aware of that thanks for the heads up.



Shadybug Lofts said:


> Not sure but I think it is illegal to hold a raffle for personal gain. If not everyone would be doing it for profit. I think only non profits can do it.


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## tjc1 (Aug 22, 2012)

its most likely a state by state issue. but its not enough to tax so most likely legal and fine to do.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Shadybug Lofts said:


> Not sure but I think it is illegal to hold a raffle for personal gain. If not everyone would be doing it for profit. I think only non profits can do it.


Good point. 

Raffles conducted online are illegal in all States. Advertising a raffle online is fine, if it is a 'normal' raffle.

http://www.ask.com/question/are-online-raffles-legal

Legality of raffles comes on a State-by-State basis. Where raffles are legal, they are only so if conducted by a charitable/not-for-profit organization, not by an individual for personal gain.

http://www.rafflefaq.com/united-states-raffle-laws/


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## Eriduardo (Aug 28, 2006)

Alright guys, I've done some extensive researching and apparently it is correct that I cannot hold a raffle online. Because of all the legalities that go with it etc. Bummer, I didn't know that. It looks to me and I'm assuming that the administrator(s) don't want this to occur on the forum anyway. I did however find out that this would have been perfectly fine if I would have stated that I was seeking donations for said cause. By donating $x you would be going into into a drawing. Keywords there are donation and drawing. Theoredictly the same, legally different. It's no different then somebody making flyers or coming to your house, or for being oustside a grocery store asking for donations to help someone in need. Or begging for that matter. It's not illegal to ask for donations over the net, the question just is whether it's ethically, morally fine. However I'd hate to do something that could possibly get me kicked off Pigeon-Talk. Therefore I will now be looking at the offers that were getting sent before putting her up for auction. Sorry guys! I think this would have been really fun.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Erik, nothing wrong with asking for donations to help you out. It isn't gambling. If you happen to list the kind individuals on paper and allot each one a number, just so you can keep track in your 'database', and decide that as a mark of gratitude you'll get a friend or relative to pick a number between x and y and send the nice donator a free gift ... well, that sounds like a generous thing to do.


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## benson1 (Jun 1, 2013)

erik,

You possibly have any young birds for sale? Late hatches? I may be interested in helping you out by purchasing one!


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## Eriduardo (Aug 28, 2006)

Hey Ben,

I actually do have some ybs and some late hatches, is there anything in particular you're looking for?



benson1 said:


> erik,
> 
> You possibly have any young birds for sale? Late hatches? I may be interested in helping you out by purchasing one!


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