# Sprint pigeons



## WFLlofts

Looks like I will only be flying out to 300 miles so what is the best sprint birds for racing from 100 to 300 miles.


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## hillfamilyloft

Ask Warren


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## hillfamilyloft

Just trying to get a rise out of Warren. With my limited knowledge, I would choose birds from your area that win in the shorter races. There are two general types of birds, sprinter type birds such as Janssens, and Long race birds such as Ardens. If you go to pigeonparadise.com you will see that they classify the birds as Short Middle and Long Middle distance birds. I would find the best local flyier in your area and get birds bred as close to their winners as possible. That would be winners at short to middle distance races. You could also study the futurity results. I would look to multiple race futurities and look at who scores well. Those SFL birds do a good job. Some say the bigger birds do better at shorter distances, but who is to say here. 
Randy


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## Lovebirds

WFLlofts said:


> Looks like I will only be flying out to 300 miles so what is the best sprint birds for racing from 100 to 300 miles.


Are you talking about YB's or OB's? I ask because MOST, but not all, clubs/combines only fly out to 300 miles with YB's. But the OB's will go out as far as 500 and sometimes 600, so if you plan to carry these birds over to OB's, you want to stay away from the Sprinters IMO. We did the same thing. In fact I've got a small family of Sprint birds that do well for us, but once I move them to the OB team, I don't send them past the 300 mile race station. They do good up to that point. I tried them on a couple of 400 milers. They made it home ok, but it was the next morning both times. In another thread someone suggested Aardens as long distance. We've got some of those too and they consistently fly good and win from 150 miles to 500 miles. I realize they are advertised as long distance and they are, in fact, just that, but ours can fly all distances and perform. It's the only family of birds we have that do this on a regular basis. But, if you are starting out, the advise you've been given it what you should do. Get birds that are doing good in your area and go from there.


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## powerspigeons

Van Reet's - Cock's Flown On Widowhood - You Want The Really Agressive One's . This Family Was Cultivated For What You Need.


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## SmithFamilyLoft

hillfamilyloft said:


> Just trying to get a rise out of Warren..... but who is to say here.
> Randy



Randy,

You trying to get me in hot water again ?

I get a kick out of this question.......of course the name which always comes up is Van Reets. I am sure that at one time, that was very true. The dozen or so Van Reets that we tested in recent years, from the best in the USA, produced some pretty dismal results compared to our other imported Holland lines, and have since been removed. Then again, we are talking only about YB racing results, as that is all we are really interested in, the One Loft Money Races. 

At any rate, within a number of family lines, there will be individuals which are more physically and mentally geared towards a particular distance range. It is your selection and pairing process of those individuals which appear outside the "curve" that moves your colony in that direction. Since many of the One loft races are now moving towards a number of events over a number of distances, my personal goal of shooting for a "Middle" distance, all around family, remains intact. In my mind, that means I should be able to win at any distance that is in the YB series, but especially with distances of 200 to 350 miles.


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## re lee

Even with short race birds you have to put conditions into account. Lines going towards harder weather birds then the general srpint type. Should be bred. So you cover both aspects. Now Any breed strain line will produce birds that do well at the different distance. It is a matter of breeding what you wish to do well in. In young bird racing You would look at a line that matures fast. I have seen the van reet line mentioned. They do well in certion areas. How you train your birds How you care for your birds How you breed your birds and what base line you breed from are all part of a key to doing well. Far as 1 loft races agin it is Breeding, training, conditions on race day and certion amount of luck that day. Find the top racers in your area see what they are flying ask about there methods try to aquire birds from them or from the source they went to. Then the rest is up to your program.


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## powerspigeons

I have viewed the web site of Lovebird lofts and noticed they have a widowhood loft. They also have alot of Bekaert pigeons.(medium to long distance) I have flown Bekaerts on widowhood before, and they performed very well. Some families of birds were cultivated for 20 years of more, strictly based on widowhood performance's in Europe. I know this is true of the Van Reets. Im sure that the Bekaert's are more then capable of winning from 100-300,without a problem. You just have to get them started a little earlier,and train a little harder. Sprint races are won by the hardest trainers, or early trainers. I have had the good fortune to buy or be gifted a few world class bird's. My opinion is 1 out of 10 you breed is decent,and 1 out of 20 are champs. Maybe one pair breeds champs,not all will be good from this pair. Out of 6 maybe 1 or 2 a year may be champs, if your lucky. If Im wrong then why do you have 15-20 pair of birds? I never met anyone who raised 100 champion young birds in one year, or 50 years for that matter. The odd's are against us,and alway's will be. All we can do is judge a bird by what it does and hope we can build a family that is strong enough to improve are odds to 1 in 8 good one's. There are only a small select people in this country that know how to build a family of bird's. The rest of us (ME) buy the family. I let someone do the work ,that know what their doing. I cant keep all that crazy breeding,line breeding,inbreeding stuff straight. So reguardless if it is a Janssen or Van Reet your odds of getting the good one's are still low. I have won more sprint race's with Stickelbaut crossed with Janssens,then any other strain, but getting the good Stickelbaut's are too hard to find. People make a mistake of buying the name and getting to many generations away from the name that made the strain popular.


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## re lee

powerspigeons said:


> I have viewed the web site of Lovebird lofts and noticed they have a widowhood loft. They also have alot of Bekaert pigeons.(medium to long distance) I have flown Bekaerts on widowhood before, and they performed very well. Some families of birds were cultivated for 20 years of more, strictly based on widowhood performance's in Europe. I know this is true of the Van Reets. Im sure that the Bekaert's are more then capable of winning from 100-300,without a problem. You just have to get them started a little earlier,and train a little harder. Sprint races are won by the hardest trainers, or early trainers. I have had the good fortune to buy or be gifted a few world class bird's. My opinion is 1 out of 10 you breed is decent,and 1 out of 20 are champs. Maybe one pair breeds champs,not all will be good from this pair. Out of 6 maybe 1 or 2 a year may be champs, if your lucky. If Im wrong then why do you have 15-20 pair of birds? I never met anyone who raised 100 champion young birds in one year, or 50 years for that matter. The odd's are against us,and alway's will be. All we can do is judge a bird by what it does and hope we can build a family that is strong enough to improve are odds to 1 in 8 good one's. There are only a small select people in this country that know how to build a family of bird's. The rest of us (ME) buy the family. I let someone do the work ,that know what their doing. I cant keep all that crazy breeding,line breeding,inbreeding stuff straight. So reguardless if it is a Janssen or Van Reet your odds of getting the good one's are still low. I have won more sprint race's with Stickelbaut crossed with Janssens,then any other strain, but getting the good Stickelbaut's are too hard to find. People make a mistake of buying the name and getting to many generations away from the name that made the strain popular.


 Alot of what you just said rings true. Far as strains Its just a name after a few years way from the strain maker. The name sells birds Base line is best a person can hope for as far as breeding. AND yes very few in the racing pigeons set down a long term breeding program. It takes years to manage and get the birds working right. IF a person just has the desire to build there birds. It is easyer to get other birds that fly well. But when you build a line maintain the line and introduce the key that keeps a line going That is the art of breeding. You find few that will do that here in the U S A.


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## hillfamilyloft

I tend to side with Warren on this issue. My Van Reets are excellent pumpers for my current family of birds. I do cross them in and let them have a round a year. I also am in search of a good middle distance family of birds. I base my birds around the Vic Miller line of birds. I cross middle distance birds into this family such as Engels. My birds are mainly Janssen bird who in the past have been classified as sprint birds. They probably got this classification because the Janssens seldom flew longer distances. If you look back in the pedigrees these have been crossed with middle distance birds such as Jos Thone, and Piet Valk birds. A good strong family of Janssen based birds would be a good bet for a sprint type middle distance bird. My Millers can also go out to 400 or so as old birds. ie. Miller's Davids Perfection that won at 400 and 500 against over a 1000 birds. 
Randy


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## WFLlofts

Ive decided to cross my best janssens with my best van reets to see what happens try and try again until I come up with a good cross I guess


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## hillfamilyloft

If you look to the histroy of the Van Reets you will find Janssen birds. Van Reet did a good job of breeding a fast family of birds. I Question the Van Reets today. Frank M and Red Rose lofts seem to have luck with them. My Van Reets are crosses so they are hard to judge in regards to breeding. 
Randy


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## The Flying Kiwi

i myself went out to buy longdistance birds and went with the Jan Aardens.
I bought tocross in with my middle distance family
They are great but have found them to go well at all distances like you say once clocking a unraced yearling in his first race at 200km second by 2seconds
and also clocking a mother and daughter together at 300km to win the federation(combine)
Also clocked Jan Aarden and a Vandy together at 500km to win the federation

Also some succes at 750Km

but yet to get one on the day from 800km but perhaps its me not setting the birds up for that distance properly but learning more all the time

Van Geel Jan Aardens Very Nice Birds!!!


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## Melsloft

*Speed Birds*

Ok I know I will be in HOT water now.... here's my two cents... I know for a fact from my good friend Tom Demartino and his family of Staf Van Reets which are the BEST bloodlines in the US direct from Staf himself he has bred several Hall Of Fame birds which are straight SVR's as well as many many winners, and many birds which have been crossed off his bloodlines.. they are tanacious birds which will fight fiercely for their box,feed,mates,babies as well as be the first to hook straight home... I'm not trying to dis-respect anyone here but I have seen these birds in person and can say They are the BEST if not one of the best families of pigeons.... their wins back it all up. I also want to add as far as fast pigeons I have a small family of direct Steven Van Breemen imports from his BEST bloodlines which mature as youngbirds very quickly and have proven to be a winning family... Steven has won the national's over 10X with these birds.......Mel


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## hillfamilyloft

No disrespect taken. I do realize that the SVRs have done very well for Many. I also like your comment that they fight foraciously. My only experience with the SVRs is that I have two brothers, crosses of SVR with Vic Miller blood. They have not bred me good babies. Nor do they take the top perch. But why I am responding is that my birds that do take the top spots are my best breeders by far. I tend to take my youngbirds from the top perches to add to my breeding loft. My founding father Kahuna a Janssen/Delbar cock via Peeman, Calia, Sonny Scott etc is by far my toughtest bird. He fought off a bull snake to protect his eggs. He has the top box. He breeds winners. Dominance is definately a deciding factor when I aquire birds, or add birds to my breeding loft. I had a cock that ruled the entire floor and his box. He bred my winners last year. What I am saying is that there is a correlation with strenght and ability. To not only race but breed youngsters. Defence of territory is definately a factor in how birds race. 

Randy


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## Melsloft

*Sprint birds*

Randy, 

Ok good I'm glad I didn't get reemed  I agree the birds that nest and perch highest are ususally the best at defending their spots, I also know that certain Staf Van Reets have generation after generation done this up to the point of defending their nest from a hawk inside the loft while all the other strains are cowardly running away. Don't forget..... these same birds that do hold their ground will also do this while being shipped to any race in the crate........................Mel
www.melsloft.com


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## SmithFamilyLoft

Melsloft said:


> Ok I know I will be in HOT water now.... here's my two cents... I know for a fact from my good friend Tom Demartino and his family of Staf Van Reets which are the BEST bloodlines in the US direct from Staf himself he has bred several Hall Of Fame birds which are straight SVR's as well as many many winners, and many birds which have been crossed off his bloodlines.. they are tanacious birds which will fight fiercely for their box,feed,mates,babies as well as be the first to hook straight home... I'm not trying to dis-respect anyone here but I have seen these birds in person and can say They are the BEST if not one of the best families of pigeons.... their wins back it all up. I also want to add as far as fast pigeons I have a small family of direct Steven Van Breemen imports from his BEST bloodlines which mature as youngbirds very quickly and have proven to be a winning family... Steven has won the national's over 10X with these birds.......Mel


Dear Mel,

Rather then contributing your two cents......as you say...why not come up with the entry fee for a good One Loft Race, and then you can prove that you and your friend Tom do indeed have the fastest birds ! I understand that the Flamingo at: http://www.flamingoic.com/index.php...me&PHPSESSID=fd25073d03fa6e0b0b14b58ab1765052

has extended their deadline to July 1st...so there is still time for you and your friend Tom to show us exactly how fast your birds really are. With 500 birds and 105 of the best lofts in the country...well as they say "Talk is Cheap".....let's see what you got.


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## hillfamilyloft

Warren is still on his high horse about that Flamingo race. But good point taken. I do think that there is a better bird than those that were hot 10 years ago as were the Van Reets. You can look at Frank Mclaughlan's (sp) race results with his SVRs. It is not as good as his old results were ten years ago. Vic Miller is not winning as many with his blood. Red Rose lofts with their SVRs are not winning as they did say three to five years ago. We are all looking for new blood. Something to cross into our birds. The European fliers do this all the time. Sangers is introducing Koopman birds into his strain. His good birds got better. Janssens were brought to the US and bred into our strains to speed things up. I am always looking for something to strengthen my birds. I am doing what Warren suggested. I am sending some birds to futurities. You do not have to fly the high dollar races to test you birds, but you do need good competition. I put eight birds in a $50 a bird futurity in Colorado. They will fly against the likes of Capt Chuck, Crazy AL, the Jones Boys etc. All in their own right strong futurity folks. I have five in the Idaho race. If they fare well, Warren just might see them in the Flamingo in a few years. If they don't I will buy birds off of those who kick my but. 

Randy


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## Melsloft

*Facts*

Dear Warren,

Let's let the facts and the birds speak for themselves. One needs only to look to Great Britain to examine the list of great champion sprint pigeons. World renowned fanciers such as Bert Hession, Dave Allen, Tony Mardon, Dean Pallet and so on are examples of this fact. They have gained world reconnection in the sport due to the Staf Van Reet pigeons. One of the very best Champion racers was a Staf Van Reet Cock which Mike Ganus had imported into the USA. Mike named him Leprechaun. He is featured in Ganus' 2002-2003 catalog. Leprechaun's record in second to none including the 26 National Ace pigeons Mike has introduced. He scored 11 X'S 1ST, verses up 4600+ birds, including 3RD VS 26,404, 5TH VS 27,181, 14TH VS 24,349, 41ST VS 24,357 PLUS MANY MORE. Another Champion Staf Van Reet Mike Ganus had imported was 10X Champion Den Don. Raced by Staf himself, Den Don scored 38X's in the top 10 including 10x's 1st and 5 X's 2nd. This season one of his grand daughters maybe a contender for the IF Hall OF Fame. This hen has only flown 5 races this season and has scored 2x's 1st, 2x's 2nd and 8th in the Combine verses 30-38 lofts. Den Don's full brother Favorie was imported into the USA by TDM. This cock was also flown by Staf Van Reet and scored 37X's in the top 10 including 8X's 1st. Favorie grand sired the 2004 IF Hall Of Fame Overall Winner. Another of Favorie's grandchildren won 1st 200 miles by over 17 minutes and bred 2- 1st place winner in two consecutive years also by large margins. Another grand daughter was 2nd combine just last week at a distance of 419 miles vs. over 1000 pigeons. Another brother "Wolf" bred the AU 5th place Hall of Fame winner I believe in 2005. Another brother "Big Tom" grand sired a 4X 1st place winner for a novice flyer in Utah as well as many other diploma birds. The 2nd place winner in the 2005 GHC Classic was a Staf Van Reet Hen flown by Allen Framption who hosts the Flamingo Challenge. This is a great family of pigeons. They win for both experienced and novice fanciers. They are potent breeders that have the ability to pass the winning genes to their descendents year after year. They are a carefully line bred family of racers which mimic those of the master breeders of our sport. These pigeons are winning today against thousands of pigeons week after week, not just 500 birds on one day in one loft, "ONE TIME WONDERS". In the very short time they have been tried here in the USA, they have put up remarkable statistics. The true mark of a great family of pigeons is they can win for many different handlers. Many strains have fallen short of this accomplishment including many of the recent import families. They can win Nationals for their owners who are incredible handlers but fall short for those who purchase their off spring. Time is the true test for greatness and Staf Van Reet has been winning for over 30 years with a total of over 600 1st place prizes and 3 Nationals. If there is a better family of races that can put up the numbers these birds can, I'd like to know about them.


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## SmithFamilyLoft

*Greatest Speed Birds Today....not in year's past...*

To bad that the great Master himself...for whom these birds take their name, is no longer in competition, at least in this world. Certainly this family did make their mark in the racing pigeon community. How much of it was the great and skillful management of the Master himself...and how much is due to the genetic superiority of the family line ?  

To some degree, the discussion is a lot like which is better...a Chevy or a Ford ? The only way I know how to resolve the question in regards to the best speed birds in the USA today, is to conduct a One Loft Race. If you believe in your heart, that owning a bird down from a bird which was once owned by Staf Van Reet, puts a speeding bullet into your hands, then by all means...enter the bird into a One Loft Race and let's put this thing to rest !  

I had some Van Reet's purchased for Smith Family Loft's USA in 2005 which were later removed from the lofts because they could not hold a candle to the lines we were already working with. They had their day in the sun, but once they passed through the weaker hands in the USA...they became in my opinion...pretty much typical. Then again, performance is all pretty much relative.....and also what happened 30 years ago...10 years ago.....2 years ago...is all history. I think the tread was about the greatest speed birds today ?

The greatest speed pigeons in the USA today, are not birds bred by 
Staf Van Reet, since he is no longer in the picture. Once another fancier is doing the selection and pairing, especially when we are getting into grandchildren from the great Ace...the original name no longer really applies. Unless you are selling pedigrees, which is in itself, a whole other discussion.


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## mrharleyrider

what's your opinion on houbens
steve


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## ohiogsp

WFLlofts said:


> Looks like I will only be flying out to 300 miles so what is the best sprint birds for racing from 100 to 300 miles.



Hey bud, long time no see. How you flying down there? I assume we are talking about yb's here right? Mike Hafner has good birds that will fly 100-300 and was selling alot of stuff off "maybe a place to look". He just hit in the Texas Gusher again this year. Tell me about your money races down there? Maybe I will send you some birds. I have been doing pretty good up here. 

Now if these are yb races I would suggest 

1. Ludo's
2.Clausings
3. Van hoves
4.Van reeets


First I don't think 300 is a sprint for yb's so I do think Ludo's are some of the best in the world and I got my butt kicked by some of them my first year flying week after week. 

Second the clausing pigeons have won me more money than anything else so far. 

Third I have done well with the van hoves also and they are extremly fast. 

Fourth I have more Van reets then anything else and have not had luck with them over 300 miles for yb's. I have them straight from Demartino, McLaughlin, and Red Rose. I have had some good ones and they have done good for me but not past 300.


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## AJPDP

Someone asked about Houbens....

Heres my two cents:

1/ they cross very well with any other strain.

2/ Extremely smart birds....

3/ The one family I would probably never replace....


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## mrharleyrider

AJPDP said:


> Someone asked about Houbens....
> 
> Heres my two cents:
> 
> 1/ they cross very well with any other strain.
> 
> 2/ Extremely smart birds....
> 
> 3/ The one family I would probably never replace....


thanks for your input
any reputable breeders around in the US.
steve


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## ohiogsp

Dave Clausing


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## AJPDP

Ditto on Clausing. I've gotten good results from Ziko, Dana, 1383 and offspring. I havent had luck with the imbrecht crossed birds.

You can also contact the Houbens directly.


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## Lickfork

Beware of stereotypes!
In 1997 I bought a pair of "sprint"(De Klak) birds to use as money race birds because I thought Sions were for long distance only. Thirteen years later the resulting De Klak family has won right along side my Sions from 100 to 500 through all types of weather and wind. Also my Sions have won some money in 300 mile futurities. 

When it comes to strain names I agree with Warren. Most of them are a long way from the loft of their creator. The truth is Paul Sion probably wouldn't recognize his own strain as it exists today.(And I'm a Sion man).
The fact is as Americans we love brand names.

On Van Reets, I tried three pair of McLoft banded Van Reets for three seasons. I loved everything about them but I just didn't have any luck racing them. I think they were great birds but they just didn't respond to my handling. I sold them and their offspring and people snatched them up. I could have sold a hundred of them. Again people love a brand name.


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## hillfamilyloft

What I would do is to look at the distances of your races up to 300. We have 8 races 100, 125, 150, 200, 250, 300, 150, 200. That makes two 150s and two 200s. I have developed a real good family that is strongest from 150 to 250 but will do 300. I would look at your race distances and develop a family that will race well at those distances. 

Randy


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