# Fertility Problem



## Rascar Capac

hi friends, I have a problem with one of my pigeons. Perhaps some of you have some info about it.

I got a male pigeon (racing pigeon) from friend of mine. He told me that it struck by a disease about a year ago together with the other 3 male pigeons of his. This 4 pigeons were cured by giving them some antibiotics. Unfortunately this treatment caused a terrible effect to the pigeon. All of them cannot fertilize eggs anymore. Even we pair them up to some new excellent hens which had been proven they are fertile.

The female pigeons lay 2 eggs and they sit on it normally. But the eggs remain clear when it's supposed to hatch. I'd tried to switch the female but no success. The results remain the same. It happens to the other 3 male pigeons as well. Those pigeons are 4 years old.

Is it possible to recover my pigeon's fertility? if so, how?
thanx in advance and sorry for my terrible english.

Regard,
RC


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## Pigeonpal2002

Hi RC & welcome to the forum,

I'm sorry to hear that you're having problems with this male pigeons' fertility. Your English is very good and I can completely understand what you are saying. Some drugs can definitely lead to infertility and depending on different factors, these side effects may be irreversible. Can you tell us which antibiotic was used to treat these pigeons, for what disease, for how long?

However, I'm certainly not an expert when it comes to how drugs affect fertility and the long term consequences. Some of our other members might have some better insights and/or help to provide for you. 

Have you tried boosting your birds immune system and general health by using some supplements? Ie: multi-vitamins (especially vitamin E for breeding males), making sure they have access to plenty of direct sunlight and perhaps some probiotics (these are good bacteria) that aid in digestion and other body functions.


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## Rascar Capac

thanx for your fast reply, pigeon pal.

the antibiotic is called *Bioticol*. I belive you might not know it coz it's made in Indonesia.
Friend of mine took Bioticol 500mg capsul. He made 6 pieces per capsule. Each pigeon took 2 pieces per day for 3 days. So it would be one capsule for each.

I'm sorry i dont know the name of the disease but the symptom is it had a green feces. At that time my pigeon was 3 years old and now 4 years old. Bioticol did cure the disease but it left the pigeons twisting its heads a bit. For a week or so, the twisting head also dissapeared naturally. And the worse effect occured as you know it.

I dont quite know yet about what nutritions my friend gave to it recently. But i see it by my self that the pigeons have a good sunlight and fresh air.


regards,
RC


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## Pigeonpal2002

Hi RC, 

Yes, you're right...I've never heard of this particular drug/antibiotic. It does sound like this is the specific cause for making these male pigeons infertile. Sometimes, illness/disease on it's own can make pigeons infertile too, so if you could find out what they had exactly, this might help us...maybe.

Are there any places in Jakarta that sell products for pigeons? I would think you probably don't but Australia is probably your closest connection for ordering pigeon supplies if you wanted to try that. The only thing that I can think of that might help in this situation and if the infertility isn't permanent, are supplements for the pigeon. A good avian multi-vitamin, probiotics, brewers yeast etc. Some things that contain good oils might help too, flax seed oil, wheat germ oil, garlic oil. Sunlight, a good diet, fresh water is all we can provide really to keep them healthy and hopefully make them _healthier_ when they aren't 100%

I have to wonder though if the damage isn't permanent though and since you said it's been a year already. 

Hopefully someone else might have further suggestions, information and advice for you.


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## Pigeonpal2002

Of course the easiest solution would be to get another male pigeon that you know is fertile for sure. This male pigeon is still good though, and could be used to foster babies later on down the road or he may even recover eventually. It might take longer than you want or he may never be fertile again. He's been through a lot though and deserves to be looked after by you


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## Skyeking

Hello and Welcome to Pigeon Talk,

In addition to vitamin E, you might also try some Brewers Yeast tabs, and a multi-vitamin mineral with a good amino acid profile. You can also supplement with a bit of real meat protein that is in a good organic dry dog food. Be sure the breeding mix has more green peas/legumes (more protein) in it at his time, and decrease the barley content.


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## Pidgey

About the Bioticol, the only references to it that I can find on the Internet are in your language and I can't find an online translation site that can translate it. The word "Bioticol" should be what we call a "trade name" or manufacturer's name. Can you find the chemical name of the drug and post it here? That may help.

However, for a lot of antibiotics, that could easily be an overdose with the associated problems. That's why it's important to know what the actual drug is.

Pidgey


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## re lee

At times when a birds health is brought down for a time the bird will not any longer fertile eggs. Just under feeding malnutrion can cause this if its over time. And the birds never come back to fertile. Sounds like with the neck twisting. It could have been pmv. paratiphiod, Or over medicated . If vit E does not help I would think the birds are no longer useful as breeders. Years ago I ggot some very top modenas that the owner had lost time for They had been in poor condition For a time. I brought there health back But several cocks were no longer able to fertile eggs any more. Bad thing was these were super birds But 1 cock after 3 years did end up fertiling 1 more time. As I still kept these birds As they were so good . Most recovered to breed me several good birds. But a few just had been neglected to long. I never blamed the past owner as the job took him away from his birds And he had to decide to get rid of them Other people were to have fed them But they did not do a good job.


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## Rascar Capac

thanx for replying and welcoming,

I just contacted friend of mine again and tried to find some deeper info about what kind of the symptoms that my pigeon suffered. And then i concluded the name of the disease is Coccidiosis. Too bad friend of mine couldn't find the appropriate medicine for the pigeons in his town. Here in Jakarta, we can find Oropharma (Belgium) and Vetafarm (Australia) products.

Pidgey, you're right about Biothicol is a trade name. The chemical name is *Thiamphenicol*. I think it's about an overdose issue.

Right now i'll just treat it as Pigeon Pal and Trees Gray said. If it has a clear eggs again, i'll swap it with the fertile one so this pigeon foster the babies of my another pigeons.
As Re Lee has experienced, i also keep this pigeon coz it's a super bird. Many fanciers in my province are asking its baby.


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## Reti

Sounds like an overdose. And the "....coles" are pretty toxic even in humans. I treated one of my hens with Chloramphenicol once and she was sick after three days and she stayed lethargic for a long time.
The worse side efect is aplastic anemia. probably your birds don't have that cause it is fatal.
Follow the advice you've got and your birds should be fine, but they might not reproduce again.

For coccidiosis best to use a sulfa drug, they gentler with less side effects.

Reti


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## Pidgey

Tricky. I haven't found enough about that drug to make a judgment call about that one. This details some of the experimental dosing testing:

http://www.fao.org/docrep/W4601E/w4601e0d.htm

For chickens, that could be used to scientifically determine the dosage to get a specific PDC (Plasma Drug Concentration). However, unless you know the MIC (Minimum Inhibitory Concentration) that is required in the blood for a specific pathogen that you're trying to inhibit, you're shooting in the dark. 

It is possible to extrapolate the likely dosage window if you compare the drug to Chloramphenicol for pigeons. In my formulary, there are a few different dosages for that in PO protocols (taken orally): 95 mg/kg, QID (4x/day), 50 mg/kg TID (3x/day) and 30 mg/kg, QID. To compare the two (Chloramphenicol with Thiamphenicol), the Thiamphenicol has a longer half-life so it's possible that the dosage could be less. However, this looks like a pretty in-depth study.

I would not have thought to use something like this for Coccidiosis, though. It's a bit on the high-powered side. Just about any Sulfa drug will take care of that and in fairly low dosages.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey

Reti,

I see you were posting while I was typing! According to that page that I linked, they don't have the problem with aplastic anemia in the Thiamphenicol that they do in the Chloramphenicol so it's got to be the "new & improved" version.

Pidgey


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## Reti

Pidgey said:


> Reti,
> 
> I see you were posting while I was typing! According to that page that I linked, they don't have the problem with aplastic anemia in the Thiamphenicol that they do in the Chloramphenicol so it's got to be the "new & improved" version.
> 
> Pidgey


Oh ok, I am not familiar with the Thiamphenicol. Thanks for letting me know. I didn't think that is what the birds have, cause they would have other symptoms by now.

Reti


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## Rascar Capac

thanx for the brief description of thiamphenicol, Pidgey.
well I guess the only thing i can do is to make this pigeon as healthy as possible. Perhaps I'll do some experiments. If it works I'll get back here and share it with all of you. Wish me luck...  


RC


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## Rascar Capac

Trees Gray said:


> In addition to vitamin E, you might also try some Brewers Yeast tabs, and a multi-vitamin mineral with a good amino acid profile. You can also supplement with a bit of real meat protein that is in a good organic dry dog food. Be sure the breeding mix has more green peas/legumes (more protein) in it at his time, and decrease the barley content.


Brad n Treesa,

Are the supplements you said above (i.e. vitamin E, brewers yeast) dog supplements? If so, is it safe for pigeons? what about the dosage?
If you recommend specific products, please let me know. Thx


RC


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## Pigeonpal2002

Rascar Capac said:


> Brad n Treesa,
> 
> Are the supplements you said above (i.e. vitamin E, brewers yeast) dog supplements?
> If you recommend specific products, please let me know. Thx
> 
> 
> RC


Hi RC, 

No, these are pigeon supplements that you can either purchase for what they are, or offer natural things in the way of food stuff to that will provide the vitamins (vitamin E) specifically. The brewers yeast probably could be gained from any capsules meant for dogs and it's the "B" vitamins in the yeast you're trying to offer to the bird.


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## De "019"

Best to go and see a vet. Ask for a male homone injectable, preferably duratesterone ar something like it. They use it to recover cats and dogs after operations as well. This will give them a boost in thei manhood. Inject 0.2 ml in the neck. Sametime you need to inject with a gonadotrophine female hormone, they use to get the pigs fertile or to get them ready to mate, you need this to get a good sperm production. Also 0.2 ml in the neck. Most of the time the male hormone is on oil base so it will be active for some weeks. The female one is on waterbase and you should re-inject again after 5 days. If that doesn’t help, it will be a problem. Also give a lot of vitamine E, calium tablets I am not sure of that will help.


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## jbangelfish

*Does sound like an overdose*

From your description, it appears that they were being treated for Paratyphoid. As someone said, sulpha drugs are easier on the birds and treat this as well as some other diseases. Too late now anyway as they already had something else and maybe too much of it.

They may get better on their own over time but some vitamins could certainly help. I would be careful with vitamin E as it seems to make their hormones rage and they can become very aggressive. It may not hurt to try it but I'd watch their behavior closely. My Gouldian Finches acted as if they'd gone insane when I gave vitamin E and I took them off of it in short order.

A few drops of tamed iodine per gallon of water is also supposed to improve fertility and certainly causes no harm to the birds. I tried this many years ago and it did seem to help with some german toy breeds that I had. It will also kill any harmful bacteria in the water. Just make sure it is tamed iodine if you try it and not tincture of iodine which is not diluted.

Bill


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