# Sick racing pigeon, dihedral, can't fly, please help!



## sbarra1x (Sep 12, 2012)

Hey, I did write a lot more detail but then I went to add images and it felt the need to delete everything...

Basically I have been looking after 3 racing pigeons for my step dad and one of them has become unwell but i have no idea what is wrong as I don't know a lot about pigeons really.

I noticed yesterday quite a bit of slimy watery dropping and so I put the poor little fella in a separate loft and gave him some water which he did drank (some of.)

I also gave him some feed and he was pecking away at it but I could not tell if he actually managed to eat any as it was very dark.

I let him out today to see if he would fly and he did try but he only got 3 feet high and then swooped back down. He does seem to be walking normal albeit perhaps a bit slower than the other 2 pigeons.

He is also puffed up a lot and may be slouching but am not sure...

His eyes are very tight looking and he keeps closing them/squinting relatively frequently. They do perk up a bit iif something gets his attention though.

He seemed more than happy to walk about the garden pecking at the floor etc like normal, but I can see he is feeling poorly.

I would very much appreciate some assistance/insight!

Summary - 

Can't fly
Looks like he has diarrhoea 
squinting/eyes tight
puffed up a lot

Please note he has always been more scraggy looking/rough looking and he has a wing injury (old one) which is why one wing hangs lower and looks wonky.


































Imaged won't work for some reason here iss a link 

http://imgur.com/a/YvMGc


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*Thank you for seeking some help. The bird may have several issues going on, but the bird is definitely sick. 

Do you have any pigeon medicines on hand?

FIRST and foremost, before we try to help you figure out what is wrong with the bird you need to stabilize the bird.

BRING bird in a warm room out of drafts of air, and put inside a carrier or cage.

Allow the bird to drink and then you need to hand feed the bird. He is not eating enough on his own to sustain life and needs the energy more then ever just to live .

If he is not eating like he used to, you can hand feed the bird frozen peas (that are thawed out, warmed, and drained)Give him about 20 and allow him to digest and repeat. Gently open beak and put a pea on top of and back off tongue and allow bird to swallow and close beak and repeat. Once he gets his appetite back you can stop the hand feeding, but only when all his weight is back on.

Here is a UK link for access to vets in your area, plus there is a wealth of other info http://www.pigeonrescue.co.uk/rescuecentres.htm

.*


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## sbarra1x (Sep 12, 2012)

Hey thanks for getting back to me.

I have a carrier so I will go and pop him into it and let him sleep in my shed with me tonight. It's not much warmer in here than the lofts but I do have an electric heater I could leave on at a low setting.

I don't think I have anything at hand to make the carrier more comfortable/warmer tonight sadly but will have a dig around.

I will be hand feeding him shortly and will update to let you know how it goes.

He is quite dirty from sitting in his diarrhoea from before I Noticed he was unwell but I am reluctant to try and give him a wash as I do not want to make him worse. is this wise or would you suggest trying to bath him in slight warm water?

Thanks for the links!


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## sbarra1x (Sep 12, 2012)

Apologies, I do not think we have any pigeon medication sadly.

I know we used to have some antibiotics that were given to us to help treat a wood pigeons with canker, but not sure if they are still around but will have a look!


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## sbarra1x (Sep 12, 2012)

I found a can of microwaveable "garden" peas, I assume these are basically the same as de-thawed frozen peas? (silly question I know but...yah..) 

If not I do still have the pigeon feed or would peas be a better choice?

Cheers!


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*If you have a heating pad, you can set it on low and put the bird on that, with a towel between the bird and pad.

Heaters can dry the air too much and give off gasses that are not good for them.

Pigeon seed is fine, but might be a little harder to feed, if you can get him to eat about a tablespoon make sure he drinks after.

Thawed peas are soft and moist and are easier to feed, not sure what type of peas you are talking about.

If you have any organic apple cider vinegar? You could put a drop of that in the water bowl, that will help the bird to repopulate some good gut bacteria and help crowd out some bad bacteria. Probiotics can also be used to help with gut issues and may solidify the poo, also will help the bird to assimilate his food better.*


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## sbarra1x (Sep 12, 2012)

Hey, no heating pad sadly. The heater I have is a small electric heater that basically heats a metal grill with a fan behind it, blowing out warm air. Would this be ok providing I do not let the room become too humid/dry?

I just fed the little fella 10 peas done in the way that you suggested but I noticed his crop was looking very big so Ii stopped to check here first. Getting paranoid about over feeding. He is fighting the feeding a ton, took about 15 mins just to get him to eat those 10.

Pic should be attached. Sorry they are all sideways my phone is always buggering up.

Is that ok? safe to keep feeding another 10 peas? I am sure I am just being over cautious.

Also do those eyelids look a bit too yellowy to you or?

Thanks again.


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## sbarra1x (Sep 12, 2012)

Alright I just weren't through my step dads shed and found a bunch of stuff he used to administer to hiss pigeons to improve their development and their racing performance + recovery, immune system etc. 

Would any of these be of any benefit? Unfortunately everything is out of date by quite a bit. Would that mean they are harmful or do they just have diminished effects?

*GEM-THEPAX - 03/12*
_The use of Gemthepax during the year is strongly recommend, especially during breeding and racing. it has been specially developed and carefully controlled to have a specific positive effect on the beneficial gut micro flora by providing essential nutrients in a highly bioavailable form. Independent studies carried out in several laboratories (including the world famous 'Institute de Pasteur in Paris') have shown that gemthepax is able to stimulate these beneficial species. Other independent studies carried out show that Gemthepax can stimulate and protect the beneficial gut cro-flora even during antibiotic therapy. Always use GEMTHEPAX if ever the loft requires the use of antibiotics. GEMTHEPAX is produced using a patented process to ensure a consistent product with high Bioactivity Coefficient. It is also backed by a extensive European research program. It can be seen therefore that the pedigree of GEMTHEPAX is second to none, but we all know that pedigrees are only pieces of paper.
_

*E-PLUS from AVIFORME - Best before AUG 2011*
_E-PLUS Liquid Recovery Prebiotic and Electrolytes for Racing Pigeons - High potency prebiotic and electrolytes, formulated as a liquid nutritional supplement for rapid absorption and maximum effect. UNIQUE POINTS: Very rapid return to peak condition after racing, training or illness, Invaluable aid to recovery, including wet droppings and yb sickness, Helps prevent "bad bug" build up, Economical, 2500ml should last a loft of 50 pigeon at least a full season. BENEFITS: Assists during periods of stress (a major cause of reduced performance), Helps replenish essential gut flora after antibiotic treatment, Supplied complete with a dispenser (2500ml size) for fast and accurate administration. INGREDIENTS: Fructoligosaccharides, Sodium Chloride, Potassium Chloride, Citric Acid, Magnesium Sulphate. ADMINISTRATION: Add 1 pump (if supplied) or 5ml per half litre of drinking water (pint approx) on return from race to replace essential fluid loss. After illness, medication or stress, use for at least 5 consecutive days._

*AVIMAX SOLUTION by AVIFORM - Best before dec 2010*
_UNIQUE POINTS:

Contains more 100% pure grade acetyl l-carnitine than any other pigeon supplement.


BENEFITS:

Promotes conversion of long chain fatty acids to energy for the flight muscles.
Ensures a sustained supply of energy.
Helps prevent muscle fatigue and cramp.
Less lactic acid is formed during muscle work, since fatty acids rather than carbohydrates are converted to energy.
Reduces the content of fatty acids in the blood by promoting their conversion to energy.
Reduces breakdown of muscle tissue and helps protect muscle against injury.
Much faster post race recovery.
Greatly improves endurance and stamina_

*MYCOFORM-T by AVIFORM - Best before June 2011*
_UNIQUE POINTS:

A single weekly measure maintains a clear system, essential for peak performance.
Very effective.
100% Natural.
No side effects.
Totally safe.
Use for 5 days during respiratory problems.



BENEFITS: 
Even healthy birds will look and fly better.
Reduces losses (especially during young bird racing).
Simple administration.
Very economical._

*GEM ULTRA-VITS - Can't find best before date *
_A combination of top class vitamins, minerals, amino acids and electrolytes in a water soluble form, all of which are essential for birds throughout the year, especially during periods of racing and ill health.

Simple to use just add one scoop to each litre of the birds drinking water once or twice per week, or for three days after an illness. _

*Carr's NATRAVIT - 12/3/9 (american or uk unknown)*
_Natravit is a totally natural multivitamin complementing the Carrs Natural Improver range packed full of naturally occurring vitamins.

This product has the added advantage of containing 4 omega oils, 3, 6, 9 & 7, all essential for vitality health and cell renewal.

This product is produced from the berries of one plant and it is the only plant that produces all four omega oils. Omega 7 being the most rare. It also contains naturally occurring caratonoid, and this will help with colour enhancment, a lot of fanciers report that the feather colour becomes more vivid when it is being used.

Natravit replaces the berries and seeds that the birds would find in the wild. In the autumn huge flocks of birds in the wild can be seen harvesting bushes - they are taking advantage of the omega oils in the berries and are preparing for winter by topping up there oil levels. Omega oils are not produced by the body naturally, they have to be eaten in some way, and this product is an excellent way of providing your birds with a balanced array of Omega oils and vitamins._

*Carr's AD-HERB (original i believe, red label colour) - no best before found*
_Ad-herb Original is specially designed as a natural alternative to modern day antibiotics. The aim is to improve the performance, condition and digestion of your birds the natural way.

Aims:
✔ Improve performance and condition
✔ Maintain excellent gut function and digestion
✔ Support your bird’s natural immune system
✔ Enhance feather quality
✔ To promote good circulation
✔ Produce tight droppings

Highly recommended for use when breeding, rearing, racing and moulting by G. W. Kirkland (11 times national winner) and many other top flyers.

For pigeons of any age
Anti-fungal and anti-bacterial properties.
Contains naturally occurring omega oils 3 and 6.
Oil based: for adding to the feed._

*Carr's TURBO BOOST - no best before found*
_Turbo Boost is pure hemp oil, cold pressed to retain all of its natural properties. Invigorate your birds (even during training!) and produce high levels of vitality! Containing omega oils 3 and 6 (essential for cell renewal when birds are feeling fatigued), Turbo Boost can help slow down the muscle deterioration process during racing.

Aims: 
✔ Accelerate through the moult
✔ Produce the perfect moult
✔ Invigorate your birds during training and racing
✔ Produce high levels of vitality
✔ Win!

Turbo Boost can also be used when the birds are moulting to help push out feathers and to encourage the moult when used in the 'darkness system'.

Highly recommended for training, sprint to middle distance racing and moulting._

*GEM - IMPACT HIGH ENERGY TONIC - Expiry date 01/04(?)*
_A powerful high energy tonic containing a complex mix of absorbable iodine's, active iron, cobalt, sodium molybdate and pure Vitamin B12. all carried on a high energy base.

Impact helps:

Natural resistance
Thyroid gland function
Stimulates metabolism
Purges the blood
Produces pink clean skin
Birds seem to blow up
We recommend that fanciers use IMPACT twice a week during racing and three days a week to birds that are about to be paired up. Use at least once once a week in the stock loft throughout the year.

A superb complex high energy tonic. IMPACT is a powerful high energy tonic containing a complex mix of iodines, active iron, cobalt and pure vitamin B12, carried on a high energy base. All of which enter the bloodstream quickly. The pure vitamin B12 enhances energy metabolism in muscle tissues and is also involved in red blood cell formation. Add to water._

Apologies for the wall of text but would be great if someone could look into these for me and see if any of them would be beneficial despite the best before dates. I know some of them say they are good natural antibiotics and goods for illness etc.

Also just an upddate : The pigeon seems to be pooing (what else to call it...) rather a lot and it iss very runny.

When I say a lot I mean easily 6 or more times in just as many or less hours.


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## sbarra1x (Sep 12, 2012)

Bump! Not really sure what to do here.

I have stabilised the pigeon but he definitely has a bad case of smelly diarrhoea and I think some of the solutions posted above could helpp while I wait for a ride to the vet (no transport of my own and will be hours.) But I do not know if any of them are safe / truly beneficial for him.

Also he still has a big lump just under hids beak which i assume is a full crop (?) but it has been this size (posted in picture above) a day and a bit now.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

sbarra1x said:


> I found a can of microwaveable "garden" peas, I assume these are basically the same as de-thawed frozen peas? (silly question I know but...yah..)
> 
> If not I do still have the pigeon feed or would peas be a better choice?
> 
> Cheers!


Thank you so much for helping that pigeon out.

Green peas that are forzen,thawed,warmed(not hot) would be your choice to feed. They are easy to swallow and digest for pigeons. They also have water in them that helps the bird to stay hydrated.
With peas you can give some seed mix also that is soaked for an hour. You can pat dry the feed after soaking it, for easy feeding.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

sbarra1x said:


> I just fed the little fella 10 peas done in the way that you suggested but I noticed his crop was looking very big so Ii stopped to check here first. Getting paranoid about over feeding. He is fighting the feeding a ton, took about 15 mins just to get him to eat those 10.


If he's struggling when you feed him then you may scratch/damage his beak. To feed him you need to calm him down first. For that you need to hold the pigeon,stretch his legs(and claws) against its tail and wrap a towel around its body with legs straightened as mentioned. Wrap the towel around his body till shoulders. Towel should tighter around the legs and loose around the crop. then take the pigeon into your lap and open the beak gently and put one pea at a time in back of his throat and let him swallow and repeat. Please check everytime before feeding that his crop is empty. If his crop doesn't empty then don't feed, wait until it gets empty and then feed.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

sbarra1x said:


> He is quite dirty from sitting in his diarrhoea from before I Noticed he was unwell but I am reluctant to try and give him a wash as I do not want to make him worse. is this wise or would you suggest trying to bath him in slight warm water?
> 
> Thanks for the links!


Its never advisable to wash/bath a sick pigeon. Sick pigeons because of ailment are not able to control their body temperature. I don't know what's the temperature where you live but I won't recommend to wash,I would call it wash a pigeon as he will become susceptible to hypothermia.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

How does his insides of mouth looks like? Do you see any growth,slime or anything else except for a clear pink throat(that's what its meant to be)?


Do you have ciprofloxacin at hand(if you don't have amoxicilin or baytril)? Or can you buy it? Its a broad spectrum antibotic for humans and easily available in UK.
Before giving any med can you get his droppings examined???
I didn't see any pics but the way you describe the birds condition insinuate salmonella.


(I'm sorry,my cell phone couldn't open any of the pics you posted above. Don't mind if I were in your place I would use my profile album to upload pics. Its fairly simple. Just goto your profile page and start a album and upload pics directly from your PC/phone. The forum runs pics less than 300 kb best,I think. Or you can goto "postimg.org" and upload your pic there and post the direct link meant for other websites here)

Thanks


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## sbarra1x (Sep 12, 2012)

Hey cheers for the advice.

I will be taking him to the vets this evening to get him examined properly. I was unable to look inside his mouth as he was struggling too much and I did not want to cause any damage.

Do you know how much vets charge to ave dropping analysed as I have no cash left after the consultation fees and cost of potential antibiotics etc.

Cheers!


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## sbarra1x (Sep 12, 2012)

Don't have any medication at the moment sadly other than te things I posted earlier. But hopefully I will be able to get some from the vet this evening.


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## sbarra1x (Sep 12, 2012)

Hey just got back from thee vet. She gave the little fella a physical examination and then examined his droppings under a microscope.

She said there was a lot of bacteria wiggling around in his droppings and has given me some Metronidazole Suppression 200mg to be dosed via syringe once a day for the next 5 days.

She says that if the bacteria is the only things wrong with him, there is a good chance that the antibiotics will clear it up and he will regain hiss full health.

She also said she could feel seed in hiss crop so he must have been eating at some point, though every time I have seen him try to eat seed he has been unable to do so, and I have been watching.

I am a bit reluctant to hand feed him more peas as he has a lump undder his beak which I assume is his crop, and it looks full to me but then again I don't really know... The last time I fed him was last night, 10 peas only as again the crop was looking very full and I was paranoid about over feeding / hiss crop not working correctly.

I should have mentioned this to the vet but was so relived to hear that there was a goods chance of the bacteria being clear up and I did not think in the moment...

I will try to get some more photos of his crop, hopefully someone could let me know how it looks to them.

Thanks again!


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## sbarra1x (Sep 12, 2012)

Oh and btw I was unable too upload any pictures to my album; kept getting an error message.

If anyone can see the attached could they please tell me if the pigeons crop looks full or would this be ok to keep feeding?

It's been looking like this for 12 hours or more.



















http://imgur.com/fGxQp0v

http://imgur.com/HngnH6e


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## sbarra1x (Sep 12, 2012)

album - http://imgur.com/a/E6QMj


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## sbarra1x (Sep 12, 2012)

Also added pics to postimage.org as requested

http://postimg.org/gallery/6q6epsgg/bb79b2af/


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Metronidazole is not the best med for bacterial infections. Did you go to an avian vet? Metronidazole would be used more for canker.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Look way down his throat with a flashlight, and see if there is anything down there. Anything that looks kinda cheezy? Does his breath smell?


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## sbarra1x (Sep 12, 2012)

Hi.

No I went to a regular vet but they do see birds though I am not sure if the lady who saw my pigeon was one of their bird specialists or not.

She did look in the pigeons mouth and throat and said that there were no signs of canker.

She said there was a lot of bacteria in his dropping so I am wondering why I was given a sub-optimal medication for that... :/


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## sbarra1x (Sep 12, 2012)

I just did some reading on Metronidazole and it says: "Metronidazole is used to treat bacterial infections caused by anaerobic bacteria (bacteria that grow where there is no oxygen). It is very effective at killing these bacteria, but it is not effective against bacteria that live where oxygen is present."

And: "Anti-inflammatory: An interesting and less-common use for metronidazole is as an anti-inflammatory within the bowel for animals suffering from inflammatory bowel disease or other immune-mediated diseases within the gastrointestinal tract. The mechanism for this anti-inflammatory effect is not well understood, but low-dose metronidazole appears to have a calming effect on the immune response."

Do you think the types of bacteria that would cause the symptoms my Pigeon has such as the excessive diarrhoea and inability to fly, puffed up, tight eyes etc would be caused by Bacteria that thrives where there is no oxygen?

And perhaps the anti-inflammatory properties could also be beneficial considering the diarrhoea?

I would love to hear your or anyone else's thought on this as I am quite concerned about having the wrong medication now.

The vet did examine the droppings under a microscope so I am hopeful that they gave me medication that is actually useful for treating it :/


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)




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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Didn't your vet tell you what type of bacteria he has discovered? 
You can only trust the vet if he's an avian one. Metronidazole is basically an anti protozoan used to treat canker,yes its an antibiotic too but not desirable in your situation as it don't have a broad spectrum that can kill most harmful bacteria. What's that lump in the neck your talking about? It can possibly be canker and metronidazole treats it.

For bacterial infections please ask your vet to give Baytril,Enrofloxacine or amoxillician which are broad spectrum antibiotics. Your birds need them.


Thanx for the pics,,,


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Its not necessary that one sees the growth in the throat to confirm canker. Only 10% of the canker build up is seen in the throat, the rest is in the body. Their nodules(canker build up) are also found on the bottom of the crop,preventing the feed in the crop to move into pigeon's digestive track. That causes slow crop which your pigeon is showing.

The so many bacteria your vet is talking about could very well be canker as triches(that causes canker) show circular and fast movements. But I don't rule out possibilty of salmonella and e.coli as well as your pigeon can be harbouring both canker and salmonella.

BEFORE starting any medicine one needs to confirm the bacteria and the drug they're sensitive to,to start the bird on proper medication.

If the vet discovers both canker and salmonella then metronidazole and enrofloxacine treatment can be given at the same time,metronidazole in morning and enrofloxacine in the evening.

Triches(that cause canker) are always present in almost all pigeons. They live in an equillibrium with the host(pigeon). Any disease or stress will break the equilibrium and cause the triches to build up causing canker


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## sbarra1x (Sep 12, 2012)

Hi thanks for responding.

How would i verify whether there is canker or not if there is none present in the throat? I already took the pigeon to the vet and they said there were no signs of canker, I am wondering why they did not perform the necessary tests (what are these btw?) to determine whether or not there is canker elsewhere.

They did examine the droppings but I sadly can't remember what type of bacteria they said was present. I don't know anything about this stuff and trusted that they had given me the correct medication as they said on the phone they have bird vets.

If I am able to get the same vet to give me Baytril would it be safe to use this in conjuntion with the Metronidazole? 

Unfortunately I do not have the money to keep going too the vets for consultation as I am on JSA looking for work and make less thank 5k a year currently living in overdraft.

Obviously I need to help this poor fella however...


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## sbarra1x (Sep 12, 2012)

Also could someone please take a look at the racing pigeons health and performance supplements that I posted earlier and let me know if any of them would be safe to use and beneficial.

Some of them say they combat illness, diarrhoea, bacteria etc. But they are all out of date though it is best before date not expiry so would they just have diminished effects or could the now be harmful?

Would be very much appreciated. Trying my best to help this little fella...


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## hamlet (Oct 26, 2004)

Hello. So is your bird gettung a drop of AC Vinegar in the water? I would force feed a small piece of garlic daily, the ac vinegar, and Metronidazole and maybe some yogurt for good bacteria. 
Has anyone tried turmeric for intestinal issues in pigeons? Thanks.


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## sbarra1x (Sep 12, 2012)

Hi. I do not have any AC vinegar but could possibly buy some. How would out of date glucose powder mixed in water do?


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## hamlet (Oct 26, 2004)

I do not know about the out of date meds and supplements. Some say that they can be used but i would not for now. You know, garlic is an antibiotic and an antiviral also. You can try the rehydrating fluid which has some salt and sugar: look it up. Good thinking. because diarrhea can cause dehydration in animals.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

I had a pigeon that was passing droppings similar with your pigeon's. I took her to lab test and found out had internal canker + coccidiosis (coccidiosis not in a threatening stage). She died next day, not sure if because of canker or she may got some water in lungs when I tried to make her drink.


I've read that internal (intestinal probably) canker is mostly incurable and leads to death.


Canker is caused by trichomonas, which is not a bacteria (bacteria = unicellular plant) but a protozoa - a unicellular animal. Antibiotics are for bacteria, for canker is metronidazole. Often is not only canker but also coccidia or a bacteria.


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## sbarra1x (Sep 12, 2012)

Hey, thanks for the advice I will get hold of some garlic today.

Also there is a lump on the pigeons neck but I do not know if it is it's crop or perhaps a sign of canker or something. The vet did not notice the lump when they examined him but I can see and feel it very clearly right now.

This is a huge issue as I have no idea if it is safe to feed him more peas or not. I don't know if it's just a full crop or if it's canker blocking his crop or slow crop so on so forth.

The lump is not too big and feels firmish located around his neck/chestline area. It's maybe an inch by an inch give ir take a bit.

Very difficult to get good photos of it by myself but some are attached and I will upload more when I get some assistance.

If anyone can help me out ere it would be great!

Cheers!

(I will upload the photos asap whhen my phone decides to stop working against me.

Here are pics I know they are not very clear - http://postimg.org/gallery/52emlkzi/5d6aa26a/

Also is it possible to get Baytril anywhere in the uk without a prescription? If not what's thhe most effective alternative as there is no guarantee I will be able to get any from the vet but I will try. Would it be Garlic?


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## sbarra1x (Sep 12, 2012)

Just to update, Charlie is no longer with us.

Thanks to those who actually tried to help.


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## sbarra1x (Sep 12, 2012)

I did call the vet today to ask her to clarify what type of bacteria she found in Charlie's droppings and she said it was called Protozoa. 

She said it could bee an indicator of a number of different p problems.

I am trying to work out what caused Charlie too go suddenly down hill.

I stayed up with him all day and then all night, then I went to bed for 4 hours and when I woke he passed away within 10-15 mins or less.

I literally saw him before going to sleep and he was in a similar condition to what I have been saying, 4 hours later I open the lid to his carrier (he slept in his carrier in my shed with me with my small electric heater on a low-medium setting to keep the room temperature up as it can get cold in here and I was worried about him getting too cold...

Then I got out of bed, took the lid off and he was just sitting there totally still, with hiss eyes wide open looking (I believe) at me. 

I was shocked and worried and was not sure if he was alive straight away so I gave him a gentle nudge and he moved a little, and then I could very barely notice hiss breathing.

I picked him up out of thee carrier and popped him onto some newspaper on the shed floor and he just collapsed forwards, eyes slowly closing very tight and he could not move at all or hold himself upright.

I picked him up again and this time I could not detect any breathing and I think he was dying right then and there.

I rushed to get him some fresh water as I was worried he was badly dehydrated and I was in a panic as I was concerned he was dying and I had to act fast, but I could not get him to drink the water. He was totally unresponsive.

I took him out to the garden and called the vet as I did not know what to do and did not know if he was even still alive but he didn't feel dead if you know what I mean...

The vet asked me to gently touch hiss eye with my finger so I assumed eye lid and pressed and there was no response.

Then she asked me to pinch his toe to see if he responded and he did not.

I noticed fluid coming out of hiss nose and eyes.

I took him to the vet in the carrier and she confirmed he had passed.

What could have caused this sudden decline?

I fed him 20 peas before I went to sleep and made him a bowl of the rehydration tonic that was suggested (warm water and a pinch of salt + sugar.)

Could these have been the cause?

Or Could it have been the heater?

Or maybe it was just hiss sickness? Worse than I had realised? I really thought after seeing the vet that he would recover with care and medication. 

I have asked the vet and she tells me that it would not have been the heater as I would have seen signs of heat stroke etc and it could not have been the peas as I only gave him 20 and even with canker in crop (wee don't know if he had this or not...) it would not have caused this to happen.

But I really don't know...

Any insight would be greatly appreciated I am very torn up here.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

He was probably just too sick. I'm really sorry. 
The heater wouldn't have bothered him unless it was made with teflon in it, which some heaters are unfortunately. Thanks for trying for him. I'm sorry you couldn't save him.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

How did he eat and drink what you gave to him? Alone or you hand feeded him? He might have died choked with food or water.


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## sbarra1x (Sep 12, 2012)

Hi.

I did hand feed him yes but he didn't choke on anything and died 3-4 hours after I fed him I believe.

Jay could you please give me some examples of electric heaters with Teflon inside so I can compare to my heater? I can't really find anything.

I am worried that my heater could have Teflon inside it.

Can you tell if any of these components are Teflon?

http://postimg.org/gallery/9hac3s58/f3986e5c/


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

I'm very sorry to hear about Charlie...
Peace.

I'm glad and thankful to you,you gave your best efforts to save him but...
Speaking of efforts,,,efforts must be made to make sure that Charlie's other 2 loft mates are ok as well because Charlie has shared the space and water with them. Please keep an eye on them.


(So sorry I couldn't post back yesterday,I was out of station)


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## sbarra1x (Sep 12, 2012)

Thank you Jass I really did try however I feel as though I am very likely responsible if not for his passing then for his getting unwell in the first place. I neglected the Pigeons and their hygiene and one of the poor fellas paid the ultimate price so I am undeserving of any sympathies.

I am going to do the best I can with the two remaining Pigeons and have made a new thread here http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f6/pi...e-preventative-measures-72774.html#post779336 and would very much appreciate your input.


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## hamlet (Oct 26, 2004)

Hello. Sorry for your bird. I would have cut open its crop to see what that bump was. I am guessing a canker nodule. Sometime birds come down with multiple issues. Canker lives in wet places like the water dish. If possible, exchange the water dish daily with a new one as a preventative. My birds do not eat off the ground, and they have grit and shells in one container. The bath water gets taken away after they bath. And the insecticide powder is used regularly to keep them somewhat pest free. Lastly, if possible, all birds should be dewormed yearly so their intestines stay strong. Your bird was pretty.


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## sbarra1x (Sep 12, 2012)

Hi Hamlet thanks for your advice I have taken it all on board and will also be ordering some new supplies today including some new grit (they have been without grit for a very long time, potentially a year or more, though I had no idea what it was until the last couple of days.)


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## sbarra1x (Sep 12, 2012)

hamlet said:


> Your bird was pretty.


Thank you. He was (and still is in another life) a beautiful little creature.


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