# get sick from your pigeons?



## olayak (Apr 26, 2009)

A doctor friend recently refused to stay as a guest at our house because we have pet pigeons. She said that people die from cryptococcosis which may be a fatal illness and is usually caught by inhaling dust from pigeon droppings. (It gives you menengitis). She also mentioned Psittacosis. I tried to explain that there are millions of pigeon fanciers out there that do NOT get sick. That these illnesses can only be contracted from large quantities of feral pigeons. (As a sometimes rehabber, all feral pigeons I get are tested and treated for ilnesses). 

I would like to hear your opinions on people getting ill from pigeons. I also wanted to hear how you respond or you would respond to such a stupid remark as "pigeons make you sick".

(ps I'm glad she didnt stay because anyone who doesnt like pigeons is not welcome in my house, anyway.)


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## Pigeon lower (Oct 23, 2007)

I think you can get sick if you breathe alot of dust in, my dad's friend had gotten some breathing problems from them and now has to wear a mask. But then again he does the deep litter system and his floor is full of dust and pigeon poop. He has to wear a mask when going to his pigeons now and has kept with his birds no matter what.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

And you can get respiratory problems from breathing in mold spores in your house, cat and dog dander, dust found in horse stables, dust found in any other animal barn/confinement with limited ventilation....make that ANYWHERE with limited ventilation....NO dust is good to breathe.
It's not just pigeons. Singling them out is totally NOT fair. Yes people often call it pigeon breeder's lung, but that doesn't mean you aren't in any more or less danger being in barns and stables a lot.

If you have them in a well ventilated loft, and you clean it often, wearing a mask, you will be fine. For indoor pet birds, keep the cage clean, air out the house often when the weather is nice, and if you're that concerned, get some air purifiers?

People just like to pin all kinds of things on pigeons, because most of society is brainwashed into thinking "pigeons = carrier 3842387 billion diseases"  When in reality, WE = carrier 3842387 billion diseases 

And by the way, you're probably more likely to get breathing problems from your own birds, not ferals. Although if those ferals are heavily populated in a vacant building or something, I suppose you could too, IF you are there a LOT. You don't just get pigeon lung from being around a loft of birds for one day. It takes years, and for some, they never have a problem. Of course pre-existing problems like asthma will make those chances a lot higher. I'm not worried about catching anything from pigeons, whether they be mine or city birds. The only thing I'm worried about, is possibly transmitting diseases from one loft/bird to mine through my clothes.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Your doctor friend is over-reacting. Is your doctor friend a real doctor? Hospitals have more sick people than you can encounter. Those diseases that she mentioned is possible, but rather remotely. Obviously, all of this is meaningless if your friend thinks that your house is dirty. Now, if your doctor friend do have pigeon lung disease, then obviously she should not stay there. If she doesn't have that, then I have to say that your doctor friend is not that much smart or informed. Not all doctors are smart, you know. Imagine that!

Now ask your friend this philosophical question. If her claim is true, why is it then that YOU haven't died yet given that you have been keeping those birds?

I would also guess that your friend will not stay if you have parakeets, parrots, cockatiel, right? Those birds have the potential to carry those diseases as well. Tell your friend to study more about zoonosis.

Right now I have colds. I get sick more being with humans, than with other animals.


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## olayak (Apr 26, 2009)

yes, she's a real doctor. these are the illnesses that she was talking about 
http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/html/epi/epi-pigeon.shtml

but, clearly, they are soooo rare that it is crazy.

Sigh. Proof once again that education does not equal enlightenment. (I have several advanced degrees but I still encounter lots of idiots in higher education).


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## olayak (Apr 26, 2009)

RodSD said:


> Now ask your friend this philosophical question. If her claim is true, why is it then that YOU haven't died yet given that you have been keeping those birds?
> 
> 
> 
> > she would say that I havent had them long enough. Mine are both juveniles - each about 5 months old.  so cute!


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

olayak said:


> RodSD said:
> 
> 
> > Now ask your friend this philosophical question. If her claim is true, why is it then that YOU haven't died yet given that you have been keeping those birds?
> ...


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## UncleBuck (Dec 23, 2008)

I use the deep litter method for all my poultry. It is dry and can be dusty. But I also have exhaust fans to help ventilate the areas in which my poultry and pigeons are kept. (AN ASIDE: I know some people call pigeons poultry, but I have no intention of eating my pigeons.)
You will also hear of people who raise chicks occasionally getting the disease due to the fluff, or down, that comes off the chicks while they are in the incubator.
Like driving a car, riding a motorcycle, hunting, fishing, walking in public, etc etc etc anything can be dangerous if the person participating is not careful and does not use good judgement.


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## tuxedobaby (Sep 9, 2008)

i think if one takes basic hygeine precautions,scraping/cleaning/handling etc its not a problem,any droppings carry unpleasant stuff but as long as care is taken things should be ok,i know a lot of folks use masks etc when cleaning,just common sense


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*Your doctor is one doctor that I don't want treating me. I have two doctors that treat me for a heart condishion and both know that I have pigeons neither one has told me to give up my birds. Just because someone has MD in front of their name does not mean that they know everything.*GEORGE


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

I once found a medical article documenting pigeon cases from hundred years ago up to now and the result is almost shocking. You might as well forget getting pigeon disease based on the result. It is almost unlikely to get one. Unfortunately, I didn't bookmarked the link. Your friend doctor would dearly love that article given that it was written by doctors.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

RodSD said:


> I once found a medical article documenting pigeon cases from hundred years ago up to now and the result is almost shocking. You might as well forget getting pigeon disease based on the result. It is almost unlikely to get one. Unfortunately, I didn't bookmarked the link. Your friend doctor would dearly love that article given that it was written by doctors.


Here are some FACTS -



> The real experts in the field all agree that there is no tangible health risk to human beings from contact with pigeons:
> Mike Everett, spokesman for the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds said, in The Big Issue Magazine, February 2001: "The whole 'rats with wings' thing is just emotive nonsense. There is no evidence to show that they (pigeons) spread disease.”
> 
> The Chief Veterinary Officer, when addressing the House of Lords in 2000 on the issue of pigeons in Trafalgar Square was asked if the large number of pigeons in the Square represented a health risk to human beings. The Chief Veterinary Officer told The House that in his opinion they did not.
> ...


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Msfreebird,

Thanks for the info. I've read that before, but I must admit, most public don't read those. What the media says is more believable to them.


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## olayak (Apr 26, 2009)

Thanks! I just posted this on facebook.


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## Whitedove06 (Jul 7, 2009)

*Husband allergic to pigeons*

Hi all

Recently this spring I had to move my pigeon couple to an outside coup
because my husband became allergic to them. He came down with pnemonia
symptoms and had breathing trouble. I read in my pigeon book that some people can (in enclosurers) can become sensitive to the plume or feather dusk which birds can put out in great amounts. After I moved the birds out, he got better. I've been around birds, raising them for awhile(years) and never got sick. I guess I have a built up resistance or something. I always kept the inside cage clean, but you can't control what blows around.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Yep, pigeons do produce a lot of feather dust and it's hard to control that. Air purifiers and good ventilation if keeping them indoors is about the only way you can. But, even with that, many people with indoor pets just can't handle it due to allergies and too much dust and dander getting in their lungs.
Allergies can randomly pop up so I hope I never get allergic to birds!


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## sprout (Oct 15, 2009)

I'm sure a lot of you know this already, but I just wanted to make the distinction between 'pigeon fanciers lung' and infectious disease more clear and give a small summary of my own research in case it's useful to anybody.

1. Pigeons can transmit diseases to humans, but the number of people who actually catch anything from pigeons is tiny, and even smaller for people with healthy immune systems. See olayak's post below, and follow her link if you want to know more.

2. The condition known as *pigeon fanciers lung is not a disease, it's an allergic reaction* to dust that comes off pigeons, exactly the same as allergy to cats or anything else- it's an over-reaction of the body's immune system, in this case to harmless pigeon protiens. The symptoms can become serious, similar to severe asthma, but improve with reduced/protected contact with birds. 

The risk increases with increased contact, but some people have a greater chance of developing it while others never will. Wearing a mask, especially when scraping and while your birds are moulting, will decrease your chance of having it, as will providing good ventilation in the loft.

As for non-pigeon-fancying friends, it's not a problem- in the unlikely event that they became sensitized to pigeons, all they need to do is avoid them- no loss for them, right?

There's lot's more information here, and it tells you how you can have a free blood test to see if you have become sensitized:


http://www.pigeon-lung.co.uk/faq.html

Worrying about catching something from visiting someone's home is like staying home in case a piano falls on you. Her doctor friend should know better, although to be fair, I was also taught (in pathophysiology and other lectures) that pigeons were a danger to public health because of these diseases- they just never mentioned how little of a danger, and probably didn't know themselves. 

I'm with you, olayak, degree most definately does not equal enlightenment- I'm living proof!



olayak said:


> yes, she's a real doctor. these are the illnesses that she was talking about
> http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/html/epi/epi-pigeon.shtml
> 
> but, clearly, they are soooo rare that it is crazy.
> ...


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## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

my teacher licence veterinary tecnician.. he has over 200 animals on his property..
he has 2 kids there too. His kids never got sick, he never been sick nor his wife ever been sick
he has lizards, birds, horses, cows, sheep..dogs,cats.... u name it he has it
and he became resistant to most of the diseases that lizards carry..
salmonella is one ..
and i having so many birds in my house.. really dont even care if they transfer something to me or not.. i also think im resistant.. our imune system gets used to it.
i dont know thats what he told me. so im just repeating.
he is a living proof .

and as far as someone not wanting to come inside ohhh well its their loss. they aint even welcomed in my house.. to say something about my little parakeets, cockatiels or god forbid my guinea pig..... they better not come close to my building


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

this thread is from june., it may not matter to you, just wanted to let you know. dates are at the top of the posts.


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## rfboyer (Jun 18, 2009)

spirit wings said:


> this thread is from june., it may not matter to you, just wanted to let you know. dates are at the top of the posts.


In some of the forums that I read, the PTB strenuously discourage starting new threads (users call each other out over 'duplicate' topics which are deemed 'spam' and quickly get closed), preferring that users continue to post in threads that already exist... which custom, imported from elsewhere, may be what is giving rise to folks here posting in ancient threads.

I'm glad that starting new threads here is encouraged; it makes it a lot easier for me to find information using the search function. 

Keeping to the topic: I've been helping with some _seriously_ overdue cleanup at a neighbor's loft, and the main problem I've had with the dust is that it irritates my eyes and skin when it mixes with sweat -- scraping is Hard Work!


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