# "410" Sold



## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

I forgot to mention that I talked to David Clausing yesterday for about an hour, and one of the things he told me was that he sold "410" this week, to a man who splits his time between here in the US and China. He told me his name but I can't remember(old age). The new buyer met David at LAX, so I guess he is in his new home now across the Pacific. Also, if anyone might be interested, there is a son of "410" which is up for auction on iPigeon, under the title of Son of 410, which is being sold by Alex Bieche for a friend of his. There is also a hen which is a daughter of "410" which is also up for sale on iPigeon under the stock bird section. It is under the administrator title as owner, so I don't know who the actual owner is. Autry Farms is the only bidder with an opening bid of $400, so I am thinking of bidding on her on sunday, since I have an extra "410" cock bird.


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## Paragon Loft (Jun 27, 2009)

i got a son and daughter of 410,i got it from david before he moved,david and anna are great people.


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

Paragon Loft said:


> i got a son and daughter of 410,i got it from david before he moved,david and anna are great people.


Yes they are. He is willing to help you out with his vast knowledge about birds. I was able to meet him in person one time to deliver some birds which I had won on iPigeon. I call him sometimes just to shoot the s#@t with him!


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

Hey Don, just curious to know how much 410 was sold for. Let us know when you find out.


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

I believe he said $3,000. He told me that back in 2005, he turned down $100,000 for him.


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## Ashby Loft (Aug 31, 2007)

bbcdon said:


> I believe he said $3,000. He told me that back in 2005, he turned down $100,000 for him.


Ouch. Now that's some serious depreciation.


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## Ashby Loft (Aug 31, 2007)

Now he will be known as 四一零


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

Paragon Loft said:


> i got a son and daughter of 410,i got it from david before he moved,david and anna are great people.


It looks like he is going to move again. They have their 2 places in Florida for sale, and it looks like he is going to put his place in Temecula, CA up for sale. He lives in the hills between the Pacific Ocean, and Interstate 15. His place is 2200' elevation, and on a clear day, they can see the ocean. The problem is there are a lot of rattlesnakes there, and they don't want to deal with them anymore. He is looking for a place in Santa Cruz, CA, in the redwoods, but he would prefer to move to Hawaii if he could get his wife to go along with the idea.


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

12 Volt Man said:


> Ouch. Now that's some serious depreciation.


Yes it is, but he uses the bull breeding system, and I believe he said that he got around 20 babies this year, but he is only filling less that half of the eggs. I think he cut his losses, and sold him this year, because next year, he could have major fertility problems.


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

bbcdon said:


> I believe he said $3,000. He told me that back in 2005, he turned down $100,000 for him.


So if you do the math, let's say 410 was put on the bull system and 20 youngsters were put out a year. On average, one of those youngsters sold for $1,000. That's $20,000 a year and I think 410 was a 2000 born bird. So even if David found out two years after the fact that 410 was a super breeder, 10 x 20 youngsters at $1,000 = $200,000. On top of that, he got $3,000 for 410. That's $203,000, not including all the race money he's won with that family. Not a bad deal.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

I think it's more like 40 youngsters 5 or 6 times a year.
Dave


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

Kal-El said:


> So if you do the math, let's say 410 was put on the bull system and 20 youngsters were put out a year. On average, one of those youngsters sold for $1,000. That's $20,000 a year and I think 410 was a 2000 born bird. So even if David found out two years after the fact that 410 was a super breeder, 10 x 20 youngsters at $1,000 = $200,000. On top of that, he got $3,000 for 410. That's $203,000, not including all the race money he's won with that family. Not a bad deal.


You are rite. He also will tell you about any problems a bird is having to a prospective buyer. He told me about a bird which he reduced the price to one of his customers due to it having a crooked beak. He could have kept 410 until he was completely infertile, then sale him without telling the buyer the truth.


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## Bluecheckard (Jun 23, 2008)

Paragon Loft said:


> i got a son and daughter of 410,i got it from david before he moved,david and anna are great people.



I agree David and Anna are really great people. I met them couple of times and brought me ten selected youngster so I can hand select a pair that I want. David have been very helpful whenever I have questions.


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## koukoukou (May 12, 2011)

$3000 you should of bought it don!


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

koukoukou said:


> $3000 you should of bought it don!


I didn't know he was for sale. He did tell me that the buyer has been after him for a long time to sale him. He had him for 11 years, and bred a lot of winners. I don't know if I could have sold him, it would have been like getting rid of a good friend.


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

I could never sell a bird I had for 11 years...that means that bird was always there through good and bad for 11 years!


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

bbcdon said:


> It looks like he is going to move again. They have their 2 places in Florida for sale, and it looks like he is going to put his place in Temecula, CA up for sale. He lives in the hills between the Pacific Ocean, and Interstate 15. His place is 2200' elevation, and on a clear day, they can see the ocean. The problem is there are a lot of rattlesnakes there, and they don't want to deal with them anymore. He is looking for a place in Santa Cruz, CA, in the redwoods, but he would prefer to move to Hawaii if he could get his wife to go along with the idea.


I'm from Santa Cruz and you would need David's fortune to live there in this day and age.


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## Matt M (Mar 2, 2011)

I saw the bidding on the son of 410 that Bieche was selling for his friend went to $1,040. The description on the bird said he had sired 3 or 4 combine winners and both Bieche and his friend race in my combine so of course I was interested and would have loved to have bought that bird but that got way too rich for my blood. The daughter of 410 that was listed in the Stock bird section also went over $1,000. I think both sold to CL Gage in Texas as "LONESTARLOFT" and I heard once he gets his mind set on an auction bird he'll go after it pretty hard until he gets it. But I was cheering for you Don on both of those!


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

ERIC K said:


> I'm from Santa Cruz and you would need David's fortune to live there in this day and age.


Thanks, Matt! Yes, he is dead set on Santa Cruz, and he wants acreage in the hills, perferrably against a reserve or park, that way no back door neighbors.


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## Jamax99 (Dec 17, 2011)

sorry for posting on this post , im new to site and not sure on how to make new post . does anyone have any thoughts on the stock bird auction on ipigeion # 93228 half sister to DE LOCCO . starting bid is $5,000 orignal owner of de locco selling her . i'm just wondering because i have a gdaugther of de locco , and am going to breed her this year . i know he was sold to china for 225k .


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## Xueoo (Nov 20, 2009)

bbcdon said:


> Thanks, Matt! Yes, he is dead set on Santa Cruz, and he wants acreage in the hills, perferrably against a reserve or park, that way no back door neighbors.


Hint to him to take a look at Santa Ynez or the sourrounding Santa Barbara county area. A man with money can really love it here.


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

Xueoo said:


> Hint to him to take a look at Santa Ynez or the sourrounding Santa Barbara county area. A man with money can really love it here.


I'm with you on that, but he loves those big redwoods up there! Many years ago, I used to deliver wood shavings to some of the horse ranches in that area. I saw some horses which cost a fortune!!!


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

As much money as 410 has made him over the yrs, I could not sell him.
Dave


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## Xueoo (Nov 20, 2009)

bbcdon said:


> I'm with you on that, but he loves those big redwoods up there! Many years ago, I used to deliver wood shavings to some of the horse ranches in that area. I saw some horses which cost a fortune!!!


Santa Cruz is OK during the summer. At least it's not the desert of Temecula.

This past Saturday, I saw a horse go for $225,000. Took the family for a drive to the dark side and looked at all the things we can't afford, including some nice ranches that would be nice for the birds to fly around on. They did have some cute little miniature ponies about the price of a Clausing pigeon.


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

Xueoo said:


> Santa Cruz is OK during the summer. At least it's not the desert of Temecula.
> 
> This past Saturday, I saw a horse go for $225,000. Took the family for a drive to the dark side and looked at all the things we can't afford, including some nice ranches that would be nice for the birds to fly around on. They did have some cute little miniature ponies about the price of a Clausing pigeon.


One of the ranches I delivered to in Santa Ynez was an Arabian horse ranch, and they had a big time stud horse there with its own truck, trailer, and driver, which traveled around the US, for stud service. He was worth a lot of money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

Try living in Central Kentucky. Swing a stick and you'll hit a $100k horse. 

Heck, there are studs here that regularly get $100k just to mount a mare. And they'll do it twice a day. The mares come to them. Talk about bang for the buck!

I've watched horses get auctioned for millions over and over. The horse farms here are ridiculous. The horses live far better than a large slice of the human population.


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

If you live in Kentucky then you forgot to mention Storm Cat his stud fee was $500,000 at one point.


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

First To Hatch said:


> If you live in Kentucky then you forgot to mention Storm Cat his stud fee was $500,000 at one point.


Indeed. But those days are over for him. I'm not sure what the highest price is now, but they've gone down a lot in this bad economy.

I drive by Storm Cats paddock fairly often and shot some photos of him not too long ago. He's an ornery fellow. Grumpy and kinda mean.


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

Kastle Loft said:


> Indeed. But those days are over for him. I'm not sure what the highest price is now, but they've gone down a lot in this bad economy.
> 
> I drive by Storm Cats paddock fairly often and shot some photos of him not too long ago. He's an ornery fellow. Grumpy and kinda mean.


Thoroughbred's are very high strung animals!


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## Ashby Loft (Aug 31, 2007)

I am pretty exited about this pigeon that I bought from some joker on this forum  http://www.pigeondb.com/share/pedigree/12454

Can't wait to see what he will produce! (Thanks Don)


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## Jamax99 (Dec 17, 2011)

Well all the talk about the 410 . And the fact that he was sold overseas, I decided to get the son of of 410 from David , I paid a little more then I liked but after doing some research on that bird I think adding him to my loft will be a good idea. I am going to cross him to one of my rauw sablons and see how they do.


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

Jamax99 said:


> Well all the talk about the 410 . And the fact that he was sold overseas, I decided to get the son of of 410 from David , I paid a little more then I liked but after doing some research on that bird I think adding him to my loft will be a good idea. I am going to cross him to one of my rauw sablons and see how they do.


Pictures, we need pictures


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## Jamax99 (Dec 17, 2011)

He was on ipegion I won him last night , David put he's nest mate on today , same color "black" hen . I was thinking of trying to get her too.


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

Jamax99 said:


> He was on ipegion I won him last night , David put he's nest mate on today , same color "black" hen . I was thinking of trying to get her too.


IMO you did the right thing. He is not going to sell many more direct children out of 410, and he is cutting down to about 50 breeders.


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## Jamax99 (Dec 17, 2011)

I spoke to David today for about 2 hours , what a great guy ,so down to earth. He told me that it was true 410 was sold . After talking to him I also bought a hen out of one of his best breeders hen to mate with the 410 cock. He loves to talk pigeons , and remembers everyone that he breeds and who they r out off . Hey zeppelin did u win that bird..?


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

Yes, I won the Van Osch import. I have 3 coming this week, 2 from Alex Bieche, and the 1 from Bill Tadlock.


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

Jamax99 said:


> I spoke to David today for about 2 hours , what a great guy ,so down to earth. He told me that it was true 410 was sold . After talking to him I also bought a hen out of one of his best breeders hen to mate with the 410 cock. He loves to talk pigeons , and remembers everyone that he breeds and who they r out off . Hey zeppelin did u win that bird..?


I spoke to David also today for an hour after you did. We were talking about the different breeders which do well with 410, and also his personal opinions regarding some of the one loft races. He is such a wealth of knowledge, and such a great guy.


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## Lavender Hill Lofts (Dec 1, 2011)

bbcdon said:


> I believe he said $3,000. He told me that back in 2005, he turned down $100,000 for him.


A $97,000 discount. Hmm that doesn't sound right for such an important impact bird like 410. But the economy is bad.....


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

He turned that offer down in 2005. He has bred a lot of youngster's since then, as he uses the bull breeding system. Up until this year, he was getting 40-50 babies a year! He had him up for sale rite after "NEVER SAY DIE" won the Million Dollar Race in 2003 for $250K. Also, the guy who bought 410 had sent David to China once on an all expense paid trip. That is worth some bucks too! Last year 410 only filled 20 eggs.


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## Jamax99 (Dec 17, 2011)

david told me that 410 wasn't really that fertile anymore and that buyer from china was going to try afew things on him to try and get him fertile. i think if i recall the last few eggs did not take at all. and thats why he only got that much . who knows , maybe guy from china , can do some type of cloning. im sure even if 410 is not fertile anymore the guy from china is going to make alot of money off of him. i bet there will be 100's of 410 babies for sale in a month in china. alot off guys would never have sold him and keep him just to say that they have babies off him when there not , but from talking to david i can see why he sold him , hes just not that type of guy . maybe im wrong but he really sounds like a honest good old guy. question , if ''surebet' is not fertile will anyone find out ? lol


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

Good question!!!


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## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

bbcdon said:


> Good question!!!


Don: Like your seal that you're putting on your pedigrees....where'd you get such a thing?


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## Jamax99 (Dec 17, 2011)

i'm not sure were i saw it , but there was some site that i was on , that was an auction, but the birds came with a ''dna'' certificate .now that would be a good buisness to get into. a bird that is ceritified would get alot more for it. im sure more then half the birds for sale do not have the same dna as there papers. . if i was one of the big lofts that was selling birds for thousands i would .have someone come in and do a dna test on all the birds for sale . im sure that customers would pay extra to have this done . ''wait'' maybe not how am i going to sell all those birds .  how much do u think it costs to have a bird tested to see if its the same? what would be great idea is every bird that wins a big money race gets dna taken and put on record some where so in future. anyone for a price could send the sample in to see if the bird they just paid thousands for was really down from that bird.  .


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

I'd like to see artificial insemination become a part in the sport.


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## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

I'm surprised with the money some birds sell for, DNA relationship tests aren't more common. Here's a link to have it done. http://www.healthgene.com/avian-dna-testing/avian-dna-relation/


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

raftree3 said:


> Don: Like your seal that you're putting on your pedigrees....where'd you get such a thing?


I ordered a seal embosser and the seals from Office Max.


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

raftree3 said:


> I'm surprised with the money some birds sell for, DNA relationship tests aren't more common. Here's a link to have it done. http://www.healthgene.com/avian-dna-testing/avian-dna-relation/


I agree 100%. Even if the bird is in the $500- $1,000 range, for $88 is not bad. And, having them certified should make them more valuable.


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