# Our on-hand Medicine Chests and First Aid Supplies



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Mine - getting assembled as-we-speak...with some things I already had on hand, and some I am seeking.

Already on hand - 
Various Cages, home made, simple ones, Wood Bottoms. Now I thinking to start making them with screen bottoms, easier to steralize that way in less time. ( I used to wash them in Bleach Water, and let them sit empty, in different positions, in the Sun for a week)

Various widths of sterile, rolled, Cotton Gauze.
A couple tinned rolls of old time Adhesive Tape.
Cotton Swabs
Various sizes Syringes and Catheters
Fine Tweezers, fine Cuticle Scizzors.
Some narrow, tapering "exacto" knives for addressing 'thread' or string feet tangles.
Heating Pads
Bleach, for sterallizeing soaks of small Bowls, Syringes whatever...
Many 'baby' blankets or small terrycloth Towels, laundered and folded.


Small Bottle of "Metrodinazole" Tablets 
Small Bottle of "Sulfadiazynum Trimethoprinium", aka "Divet"
Large ( slightly outdated) Bottle, rubber-top kind, of "Oxytetracycline Hydrochloride" exp-date of Jan'y-2002 ( is this okay?)
one package of "Spartrix" Tablets


Just recieved today's Mail -
One packet of Water Soluble "Supfadimethoxine"
One small jar of Water Soluble "Ronidazole"
One tiny Jar, of "Wormout" Tablets, being "Praziquantel" and "Oxfendazole"


Soon to arrive -
Good size packet of "Vita King 5-in-one" Water Soluble Powder
Small jar of "Nekton-T" Soluble Powder
One circa 1918 or so Bosch and Lomb Microscope, 40 power, 450, and 1,200 I think...but I can get other objectives for it...e-bay, won a few days ago, on it's way...bought a bunch of plain glass slides also, ground edges of course...on their way too.

I am seeking "Baytril"
"Nitrofurizone" topical powder ( should not be hard to find, just have not found any yet)
"Nutrical" ( Petsmart was out of it...)


What else should I get?

(Hell, I am having trouble now, remembering what some of these things 'do' even! Lol...I will make print outs, and folders and so on...to remember...)


Whatchathink? 

Advice? Suggestions? Encouragements?



Phil


----------



## elvis_911 (Apr 26, 2004)

err, show off lol jk 

good to have everything  


Elvis


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Elvis,


Lol...
I went years having only some old Nitrofurizone powder, some Emtryl, and...that was about it. I sure got a lot of miliage out of those two, too. They are good ones to have.

Thanks to you and others here informing and inspireing me, I am now getting my supplies in order, and soon going to learn how to look at poop-things under the Microscope, to see what wiggles or looks back at me there...

Any ideas where I can find reference images to learn to distinguish various things under magnification, that are worth recogniseing in their poops?

Or a fast refresher on methods of simple culture making? I think I can remember how on that, but I never but maybe read of how to do it when in hi-school or something...Agar...everything sterile, swab their throat, touch the swab to the agar, put the lid on it, keep it in a cool place...wait till you see something growing and then take some of that and put it on a slide...? More or less?

What about Gram positive and Gram negative? What kinds of dyes does one use? Anyway, if anyone is up on all that, give me the crash course if you feel like it...

If I can learn to do that, and or get my Digital Camera to make images through the Microscope, I can post things here sometimes...

Also, I need to learn how to Suture and anyone here knowing the drill, or knowing where I can find some good reference info, I would be very obliged for your kind attentions.

I have nice Steel-insert, Tempered Bronze or Nickle plated Steel forcepts, some small size curved Suturing Needles and some absorbable and some non-absorbable Suture threads but can get more or other of course. I just need some run-through on basic kinds of methods and stitches for different layers of skin or underlay, and or general techniques, from some of you, or from a book or website you can point me to.

When I have had cut Birds here, it was sometimes a very long wait to get with the one ( 1 ) Vet I know of who is a good sport on these things, and he is a sweetheart, but sometimes he is not there or is out of town. Almost all the Vets here do not have any interest even IF you are willing to pay them full bore, and or are lousy technitions to boot and will NOT let you go back there into triage, nor assist in any proceedures, so what happens then, is they manhandle the Bird or over-anaesthecise it so it dies....so, I wish to learn these things within reason so at least I can deal with them when need be. for that matter, many Birds do not need to be put under, they will abide...I have seen this many times. Some topical anaesthetic would be handy I think, but they will often do just fine with none.

I had one one time, got 27 seperate wide punctures sewn up, (Dog's eye-teeth punctures, big Dog too) no anaesthetic, ird was alert and awake, me holding them gently, holding them this-way and that, a cool old time Vet sutureing, 10:30 on a Friday night, he met me there to do it...totally cool guy, long ago now...and the Bird was completely co-operative with no winceing...


Make sense?

Thanks...

Love,

Phil


----------



## KIPPY (Dec 18, 2003)

I would assume you already have the bird seed? (just kidding) It sounds like you have it pretty much covered. If I get a sick bird I may priority overnight it to you.  

What is this "Nutrical" from Petsmart?


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

KIPPY said:


> What is this "Nutrical" from Petsmart?


Easy to digest, high protein food that comes in a tube like toothpaste. I never considered using it for birds, but it surely is a lifesaver with very ill dogs and cats. http://www.bullwrinkle.com/index.html?ShoppingPages/nutrical_nutri-cal.htm~indexmain

Terry


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

*My Medicine Chest Is Bare*

Sorry guys, I can't let this go by, without my little two cents.

I have a whole refrigerator just to maintain my bag of goodies. It is crammed full of things like ACV, Garlic Juice, Probotics, Prebotics, Oils, Vitamins, Electroltes, Yeast Enzymes Bacteria, Brewers Yeast, Ecoli Antibodies, Black Elderberry Extract, Calcium Gluconate, Fertibol, Epinard, Persil, Carrots, Spinach, Green Cabbage, Onions, Biceptorax, Eureka+, Twister Oil, etc. etc. 

My antibotics, remains sealed in a pack, like it has been for two years (time to throw it out ?) The only "meds" are the various vaccines.

I have repaired birds, from horrible hawk attacks, with just the above, and have had only one sick pigeon in two years. My birds are mingled with thousands of birds during the racing season, and with local ferals. I use to scare them off for fear them transmitting something to my race team. Now, I do quite the opposite, I invite them in to roost, when ever they are in need of a drink or some food. I encourgae the droppings in my loft to accumulate, and rarely disinfect my water containers. In fact, I do just about the opposite of what is considered "gospel" for healthy pigeons.

I have no worry or concern, that I have allowed any "secrets" out. Show me a loft, that uses 4 in 1, or 5 in 1, and now gawd, there is a 10 in 1  And, I will show you a loft, that soon requires these items, just to stay healthy. And in the end, mine will still be more healthy.

My methods, are not widely accepted or understood. Part of the reason, is in the US, we spend TRILLIONS on health care, and are not getting any healthier. I attribute, our lack of healthy pigeons, to our own failed, health care system. Treat the symptom, and not the cause.

Adopt my system, with birds bred under this system over 10 generations, and you can throw that old antibotic stuff away, and then your only "problem" will be Mr. Cooper. Go back to nature, and all the wonderful products she provides.


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Warren, 


I only deal with feral Pigeons (or Sparrows, or MOcking Birds, or the odd other species at times, rarely,) which I find or that people bring me.

No Loft, no Breeding...(Years ago I had my own small flock, but long gone now).

So my interests are to help them, within my reasonable limits to do.

Overall, as far as sick and injured adults all these years, even with me having not much but the Nitrofurizone and Emtryl to work with. I lost a pretty small percentage even of ones that were pretty far gone. I just know that if I could do a little more, more of that percentage could fly away instead of being Cremated for hygene ( and feral Cat's sakes) in my wood stove.

I am a practical fellow, I can learn.


The Birds have often quite remarkable recouperative abilities...and most of them do want TO live, even when they are badly hurt or ill or both.

This is worlds away from maintaining a Healthy domestic Flock of one's own.

These are the Wild, inner-city feral Flocks, whose fallen members I recieve.

Sometimes 'dumpster' babys, youngsters, so soaked in rancid stink oil they never have flown in their lives. Emaciated, living off rancid french frys and fried chicken scraps. Give me a month with one of them, and they smell like fresh grain, and fly like the wind. They do not return to the dumpsters, but remain with the roving Flocks.

It is a hard life for them in cities like this...there is little food, little good water...

I just want to be able to do what I can, for the ones that come to me, or that I find or that people bring me.

In the grand scope of things, or of how many I never know about who are fallen from one thing or another, it is a small drop in a big bucket, I know.

But I like them, and I am willing. 

 


Best wishes,

Phil
Las Vegas


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Hello Phil,

Under the conditions you describe, our "black bag" would contain different items.

With a back yard loft. I am driven up the wall, when I hear guys talking about using a 5 in 1, "in case" or to "prevent" something. They are victims of merchants who sell the stuff to pay their bills. At least that is my story, and I am sticking with it.


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

*Suturing*

Here's a good link: http://cal.vet.upenn.edu/surgery/5000.htm

There is also another excellent one that I will have to sleuth out later.

Terry


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Terry, 

Maybe I bought the wrong stuff..!

I thought 5-in-one was for treating illness and disease...or would come in handy for when ( as may be the case) a Bird may well have more than one disease and time is short, or I do not find myself able to guess or tell which one it might be.

I am not looking for 'preventative' things per-se, but for medications and diagnostic aides for those Birds I deal with who are sick.

Give me your advise please...!

Help my out if you can on some diagnosis tips?

Or tell me what you would do in my situation as far as those meds or other things to have on hand....practice and praxis...

I was gunna buy a couple tires for my van but decided I would spend the dough on Pigeon meds this month instead...so nows the time! Them baldies will roll a few weeks more yet I recon...



Knowing what I am doing here is treating 'ground Birds' too ill or injured to fly usually by the time I get them, which people bring me or that I sometimes find. Generally, the least time I would keep such-a-one is three weeks (of good feed and whatever initial meds or fix-ups) if they really snap-to fast, or a month or sometimes more. Then I let them fly around indoors here for a week or so untill I am satisfied they seem allright, then I let them go out if they want, and usually they keep on going, I imagine, back to wherever they left off at...

Thanks..!

The only recommends I personally can give from experience, is that I had good luck with "Emtryl" water soluble ( Dimatridazole I believe) for trichomoniasis infections or Canker, and Nitrofurizone topical powder for puncters or other boo-boos after cleaning and irrigating.

The rest is, and will be, all new to me!

Spartrix maybe also, seems good for Canker and Trich...but the form I got some in is pills. 

Tonight I did my first 'Pill into gullet' proceedure, and it went perfectly. Otherwise, I allways gave them whatever it was in drinking Water.

I am here to learn!

Give me all you can...

Phil


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hey Phil .. I just posted the suturing link .. you'll have to talk to Warren about the rest. I'm way behind and trying to catch up, so some of my responses will be "out of whack" time wise. Still, if I've got a good one for you, I'll post it.

Terry


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

*OK .. Sticking My Neck Out Here*

Those of us who rescue ferals and downed domestics have different things to deal with than those of you with well maintained lofts and well cared for birds.

From the rescue/rehab side of it .. we get the birds in the "worst" condition and sometimes with the "worst" injuries .. some of the downed domestics also have horrific injuries, and they would be treated the same as the ferals with the same injuries. In the case of the ferals, they may or may not have had adequate and appropriate food .. if a domestic has been out a long time .. might be the same .. Who knows what they were given as far as vaccines (the domestics), so you do the best you can.

Bottom line is .. it comes in as a needy pigeon, it gets treated .. some require more than others, but all are truly hardy birds who want to survive. The saddest thing is this .. nobody but us fools who take them in really care about the ferals .. and sadly sometimes the owners of the domestics do not either. What's the answer to this? All of us NEED TO CARE ABOUT ALL PIGEONS! We do that here on Pigeon-Talk and it's also done at 911 Pigeon Alert! End of story.

Terry


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Terry, 


Most cool...thank you...

I too am here in stolen moments. I work and live and have my Workchop ( Cabinetmaking mostly) and have my Guest Birds all in various rooms of the same old armpit of a building here in downtown, so I am almost allways here, which is a good thing when them little orphan Babys are a-hap, because as you know, they are little Stomachs with Wings on 'em...and so...the days all often just roll bye like time lapse clouds...


I will check out that link above you posted for me...I am thrilled...thank you!

Phil


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Terry, 

Just visited the link...

Oh my...

Thank you!

Phil


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

*Another Suturing Link ..*

http://www.ivis.org/advances/Reuter/brown2/chapter_frm.asp?LA=1

might be largely a repeat of the prior link ..

Terry


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

TAWhatley said:


> Those of us who rescue ferals and downed domestics have different things to deal with than those of you with well maintained lofts and well cared for birds.
> 
> Terry


Hello Terry,

Point well taken. My lecture  , was directed towards the owners of pigeons with back yard lofts. It might be like a family dog, vs. a stray who has been out there all alone, maybe hurt, injured, sick, no medical history etc.
You don't give the family dog 5 in 1 every week or month to keep him healthy, so nither should you give your birds in your loft any. 

You guys are the experts in rehab type work. I am learning from you in that regard. In many or most cases, they are near death to begin with. My comments were directed at fanciers that may need to review their management practices, instead of reaching for a bottle of something.


----------



## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi all,

I was going thru some bookmarks and found this link which I thought would go well with this thread....

http://www.pigeonnetwork.com/vetdirectory/vetusa/drdavidmarx/medicine.cfm

fp


----------



## PigeonSitter10 (Feb 18, 2005)

sounds like you alll are packed ready for some sort of sickness and all i got is me myself and i to take care of my budies


----------



## PapaPigeon (Dec 22, 2004)

*Meds?*

Actually, I am just about to order some meds. I have a "backyard" loft but I only will have at MOST 10 pigeons. I only show, and right now all I have is wormer I got some canker meds from my Mentor, and I was about to order some canker meds(Spartix) and 4-in-1 just in case, but it looks like that would not be a good choice? What would be good basics, and on a limited salary(my part-time job at a Pizza place doesn't pay much, and my parents want me save for college plus gas and WOW  ). Anyway, thanks for any pointers!

Matt


----------



## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Matt, 


At least you have a job! That is great to hear that you're responsible and willing to make your own money 

As for meds, you should have something on hand for cocci as well. Such as appertix, or baycox. Baycox is supposed to be one of the best on the market but appertix is also good and can be given as individual doses because they are pills. You should also perhaps have a good broad spectrum antibiotic (just in case). Baytril is pretty expensive but amoxicillan is nearly as good and much cheaper. Those are the main things to have in your medicine chest in my opinion that will cover most bases and treat the most common things pigeons are likely to get.


----------



## elvis_911 (Apr 26, 2004)

thanks feral pigeon that links got a lot of good info.


----------



## PapaPigeon (Dec 22, 2004)

*Thanks!*

THANKS!  I just moved some of the pijies outside in the new loft(it was in the 70's) and they love it.


----------



## PigeonSitter10 (Feb 18, 2005)

well i am willing to work to make money EXCEPT theres not much work around the house for me to get payed.


----------



## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

PigeonSitter10 said:


> well i am willing to work to make money EXCEPT theres not much work around the house for me to get payed.


Hi all, 

Well PigeonSitter10,

Has anyone ever said to you "When I was your age, blah, blah, blah??? 
I read your post--and I hate to date myself like this, but...if I ironed two handkerchiefs, I would be paid one penny!! Times sure have changed thank God.

Anyway, this is a good link to have more info in, so I'd like to know:

1. When you purchase Ivomectin sheep drip--How do you dilute it for 
use with the pigeon? Brad, are you there?? I think you've posted it before, but would you mind posting it again? Also, all the different applications/dosages??

2. I wish in general there was more info on dosage amounts and lengths of time for different levels of "infection",amount of dosage and product. Does anyone have any good links??

fp

PS--If you get in a bad situation, you can always post it and see if you can get some help for meds !?!


----------



## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi FP, 

I haven't used the ivomec sheep drench before so I'm not familiar with it's application or dosages. The kinds I've used do not get diluted with water. I have used the Ivomec *injectable* which is 1% Ivermectin. Ivomec is mostly given to cattle so you have to work out the dosages for pigeons. The dosage is 1mL per 100lbs of weight so you have have to know the weight of the bird. The other Ivomec products I've used are Ivomec *Eprinex* and Ivomec *"Pour On" * for cattle. The injectable Ivomec can either be given subcutaneously under the skin via a needle or directly down the birds throat with an eye dropper. I of course use the eye dropper method. The other kinds of Ivomec are meant to be used topically. In these cases you just put the product on the back of the birds neck.


----------

