# Rescued a pigeon - what to feed? Please help



## whiteandgraypigeon (Jun 27, 2017)

*Rescued a young pigeon (can't fly yet) - what to feed? Please help*

We live on 10+th floor, and have a pigeon nest on top of our air-conditioner. Two new borns on 31 May and 1 Jun. I can tell this only by peeking their silhoutte through a small window, and also that their two parents stopped the day and night watch sitting on the nest.

Another pair of pigeons trying for the last few days to take over the nest. We helped fight them away from an access window in the corridor, as i witnessed them trying to push the babies over the edge of the air-con, almost to fall. And today their parents came to fight too. 

Unfortunately the fight today was too severe, one of the smaller pigeon (born on 1 Jun) fall off, but managed to flap a little and barely stand on a water pipe about a few feet below. I helped him stable with a stick, rush back to home, opened a window near him (fortunately there is just one above where he landed) and rescued him inside. Settling him down in a plastic box for now. I don't think he is hurt.

There is no way we could put him back on that nest without risking him falling. (The elder one flown away yesterday already.) Calling animal rescue here is not preferred as I have heard rumors that, as wild pigeons, they will not do anything at all, or just end him in an humane way...

Pictures of him are attached.

Please help us with some advice, what to feed him? I have fresh corns, vegetables, and I can go buy bird feed if needed. Which is better? Some posts say defrost green peas, is he ok for solid food? All these days his parent went back to feed this little poor thing everyday. Please help with some advise. Thank you in advance.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Yes you can feed defrosted green peas, at least 30 peas 3 times daily. Also leave some in a bowl with him, they start eating peas by themselves fairly quickly. Then you can start adding seeds to the pea mixture. When he starts eating seeds, he will need to drink water as well. You can dip the tip of his beak (not over the nostrils) into a small bowl of water to teach him to drink.


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## whiteandgraypigeon (Jun 27, 2017)

Many thanks for your reply! Do I have to somehow "force feed" him before he can eat on his own? I don't want to brute force but somewhere on the net says, holding his beak in a particular way can open his mouth, to place food on top of his tongue and he will eat.. 
He has not been eating and I tried to teach him drink and moistured his beak with finger tips a couple of times in the past 6 hours. He is a gentle fellow and did not fight back at all, but just didn't seem to be interested..


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Yes, you'll have to forcefeed him. Put him on your lap facing to the right (if you are righthanded). Cover his body with a towel or something so that only the beak sticks out. Now reach with your lefthand over his body and head and open his beak with your fingers. Have the pea ready in your righthand and put in his mouth over the tongue and let him swallow. If he spits it out then you're not putting the pea in deep enough. They don't need to drink water as long as they are being fed peas. But just keep on trying dipping his beak into water and eventually he will drink.

Feed him at least 30 peas 3 times daily. Always leave a bowl with peas with him, they learn to eat them fairly quickly. Then you can start adding some seeds to the peas and he will start eating them as well.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Hi, your baby is really lovely!

To stimulate him to eat you can try that, sometimes it helps: put a large mix of seed in a dish or a bowl or a plantpot saucer and start to tap your finger in it - TAC TAC TAC - imitating the sound of a pigeon who is picking up seed. I use to put a large choice of seed: pigeon or dove mix but also a mixture for canaries. So they can practice with different kind of seed: smaller or bigger. Last month I have adopted 2 babies looking for a family. The brother has started to eat by himself sooner than his sister. Each pigeon learns to eat at a different moment, they learn it little by little. You can also sprinkle some seed around your pigeon.


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## whiteandgraypigeon (Jun 27, 2017)

Thanks all for your reply!

After the first night, he seems to be more active. He must have been curious about the plate with peas and the water can during the night, as this morning the water is no longer clear and need changing, and the peas sprinkled around the plate. Good sign, is it?

Oh and we tried the tapping - it really got his attention! Hope he will eat on his own soon.

After cleaning and changing the bedding, we were able to force feed him around 20 peas and a little fresh corns (we cut and feed only the soft tip part). He resists only very little. Left the plate with peas and we will try again later today. We feel more relieved now to see him finally have something.

Great thanks again!


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## whiteandgraypigeon (Jun 27, 2017)

If we are to add some seed, what is the best for this 27-day juvenile? I was looking for sunflower seed from supermarket, but some says it is very easy to cause wild pigeons, esp young ones, to choke...

What kind of seed should we add? 

Btw, he learns drinking from the can! woohoo!

Thanks in advance.


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## whiteandgraypigeon (Jun 27, 2017)

We saw him pecking a lot this afternoon, so tried with some bird feed which i guess is safe.. 

He failed on the round ones, dropped all of it for perhaps he didn't mastered his beak picking things up, but doing well with those rice-like grain.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Glad to hear he learns to drink by himself! 
Leave him clean fresh water always available.

It's a good thing he has started to pecking: now he needs to practice. Gradually, little by little, he will learn to eat by himself. Give him a large choice of seed: pigeons are really curious and everyone has his taste.
Don't be worried if he fails: that's a normal thing. I use to buy pigeons and dove mixture from different brands so the mix is more complete: legumes like for example lentils, peas and green soya are really important. In these mix you can also find wheat, sorghum, vetch, corn, millet, etc. You can give him also a mixture for canaries (canary seed, rape, oats, niger, flax seed, etc) so he can practice with food having a different dimension.
I use to buy also some mixture enriched with vitamins: vit. D3 is really important because without it a pigeon can't absorb the calcium he gets. About calcium: when your baby will learn to eat you can give him cuttlebone. I use to cut it in small parts and put it in a dish. My pigeons like it and they eat it when they feel they need it. If you prefer, you can buy a calcium supplement.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

I forgot to say that the mix you posted is, as you said, safe. Of course I'm happy to know he did well with it!


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Just make sure he's able to eat all kinds of seeds before you release him. If you have a balcony, you can do a soft release from there. Even after you have released him, he might still come back for food so you have to provide him with a back up food supply.

But first, hopefully he will start eating soon.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Any progress? Really hope so!


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## whiteandgraypigeon (Jun 27, 2017)

Colombina said:


> Any progress? Really hope so!


He seems to be doing great! We stopped force feeding him with green peas after seeing him ok with the bird feed (he always picked all the dried corn first!), we keep changing his bedding daily, and the food dish and water can always clean and filled.

Even though we stopped force feeding, we place defrost peas in dish (for the protein), but he doesn't seem to be interested. Anything soft he throws away.. so we tried cut the peas in smaller pieces, dried them a little in oven to make it more solid. See if he will like it ..

There are pigeon flies on him. We happen to have pesticide spray that is ok for warm blooded creature (permethrin) so I tried to spray to a paper towel, and then wipe on his body. Soon after that two to three flies fell off. We still saw one occasionally but I think i'll keep it for now as that pesticide was not meant to be for pet bird..

He flapped wings alot lately in the morning, so he could fly or jump out of the plastic box anytime. During night time when we sleep, we top the box with a cover but leave ample space for ventilation, as well as cleaning the space around (e.g. sharp objects) so in case he does leave the box, nothing around gonna hurt him.

But he always sleep like a baby in night 

Thanks again!


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Glad to hear he is making progress. Good job!


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Thanks for the update! You're doing a good job! I'm happy to know he has started to eat by himself  ! So he loves dried corn! Every pigeons has his own taste! Does he like small dried peas you cut?

Thanks for the photo! He is really nice and pretty!

About parasites: to destroy mite, lice and fleas I use Neo Foractil spray (piperonyl butoxide + permethrin+ tetramethrin). You can spray it in nests (or box, cage, etc) or you can spray it on birds (of course you have to be careful at their head: eyes, beak and nostrils). You can spray it (of course a short spray) at the back of the neck and under the wings. I suppose spray a paper towel and then wipe on body is ok too.

Recently I have bought Colombine spray (piperonyl butoxide 2% + pyrethrum 0,249%): it acts against lice, fleas, ticks and red mite. I haven't used it yet. Directions for use said that you can use it both to prevent parasites both to treat them if you see them. They said you can use it in the accommodation means for pigeons and baskets (so you can't spray the bird I suppose).

I was looking old thread here in pigeon talk about pigeons flies. I have found something but I haven't read them yet. I will read them. 

www.pigeons.biz/forums#/topics/4175?page=1 

www.pigeons.biz/forums#/topics/60981?page=1

www.pigeons.biz/forums#/topics/78465

This summer I haven't seen flat flies yet but last summer while I was at the sea there was an invasion. Horrible. It's really hard to catch and kill them. I noticed they are annoyed by Neo Foractil spray. Maybe we can open a new thread about them.

I forgot to say that I know someone use Frontline for cats to combat parasites: 1 drop at the back of the neck. I have never tried it.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

If you are interested, there is an open thread about: mites and lice. It's interesting because a member asks information about Colombine spray, the spray I have bought but never tried. He asks if it's safe because directions for use said: "there is no danger for the pigeons in case of contact with the product (avoid contact with eyes and beak)" but in hazard statement you can read that this may cause cancer


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## whiteandgraypigeon (Jun 27, 2017)

Thanks again for the advice and pointers to the forum! If he knew there are so many people helping him on this forum he would surely be surprised and thankful 



Colombina said:


> About parasites: to destroy mite, lice and fleas I use Neo Foractil spray (piperonyl butoxide + permethrin+ tetramethrin). You can spray it in nests (or box, cage, etc) or you can spray it on birds (of course you have to be careful at their head: eyes, beak and nostrils). You can spray it (of course a short spray) at the back of the neck and under the wings. I suppose spray a paper towel and then wipe on body is ok too.
> 
> Recently I have bought Colombine spray (piperonyl butoxide 2% + pyrethrum 0,249%): it acts against lice, fleas, ticks and red mite. I haven't used it yet. Directions for use said that you can use it both to prevent parasites both to treat them if you see them. They said you can use it in the accommodation means for pigeons and baskets (so you can't spray the bird I suppose).
> 
> ...


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

You are really kind! Thanks to you for helping him  !


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## whiteandgraypigeon (Jun 27, 2017)

Some updates from him - he is doing good i think. 
Any advice to what we didn't do it right will be greatly appreciated.
Thank you in advance.

Food -
He doesn't like green peas at all. He seems to reject any food that is not hard. We tried fresh corns together with defrost green peas, mixing to bird feed. He just throw these away and eat only something that is hard (bird feed). Have some progress with baked green peas as mentioned in earlier post. We peeled the defrost peas, split in half, bake a little in oven, then removed the sprouts in the middle (since it's quite sharp after baking), bake again until the outer is hard. He seems to accept these, but I am still worried he will choke on these or will hurt his throat so only do it sparingly by feeding him the smaller ones as treat when he did well on flying school. I have a bite on these before feeding him, taste a little salty.. Double checked the package of the frozen peas, there is no salt added. Strange.

Flying -
We let him out everyday, for as long as we can look after him, on a hard paper box so he can flap his wings without being confined to his plastic box home (the last pic below). On sunny mornings he is very delighted to practice. On rainy days he seems a little lazy. Anyway, he can now occasionally jump/fly up to 1.5 ft from his box to its edge from his bedding. We are trying to encourage him to fly longer. We also played with him by gently pretending to be enemies with fingers so he can polish attack skills. On one occasion he surprised us, for we were encouraging him to jump to a box placed right next at the edge of his plastic box home, but instead he jumped, grabbed and flapping like crazy on my shorts! I hold him and let him climb to my shoulders. He seems not afraid of me at all.

Feathers -
The day we pulled him in, he is almost pink with very few feathers on his body (the torso part covered by his wings). That's almost as pink as on new born baby pigeon. Now he has some grown "soft" and roundish feathers on his body.

Pigeon flies - 
We tried a second time with the permethrin wipe treatment that should be on par with Colombina's suggestions, after we didn't see any ill effect on the first try last week, and it worked pretty well as no more pigeons flies on him are seen since then. There is much less "seizure-like" feather biting lately (from the itch of flies bite i guess). He does "fluff" quite a lot in day time (sorry if i used the wrong word), like "releasing" all his feathers, and becoming a "fat bird", and then "swipe" and clean carefully his feathers one by one with his beaks. I hope this fluffing is ok, as a sign he is relaxed, similar to his family and neighbours' behaviour as we can tell since moved here and got involved in their habitat.

Plan -
Great thanks to Marina B's thoughtful advice on releasing him, we discussed alot based on this. Unfortunately, we don't have balcony. We are getting worried everyday to follow our original day-one plan (just to help him survive the ordeal on that day he fell off from nest, and release him eventually), as he got no parent mentors to teach him how to survive in the wild like his elder brother/sister did. So we are thinking about some temporary fixtures at one particular window from our flat, which faces the same direction to his original nest's exit. Let him familiar himself with that place for sometime (days or weeks), before releasing him there (or let him decides when, we can have a window gate control). All in a hope that if things doesn't work well for him after he flies away, or didn't rendezvous with his family, he knows where to come back for water and food like Marina B reminded. We are also trying to keep an eye for the whereabouts of his parents. They are spotted a couple of times last week to be outside a building opposite to where we lived (on one time with his brother/sister). We are trying hard to suppress our emotions everytime their parents are seen, since he can't fly yet and there's no way we can let him get back to them, nor let his parents know he is safe. 

Anyway, just trying everything we can do with an aim to have him reunite with his parents and family. Please wish him luck.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Thanks for the update. Seems like he's doing well and in good hands and getting pampered. Why don't you in the meantime put a table in front of the window where you want to put up the fixture and put his food and water down there. That will already help with him getting used to the area until you put up the fixture. You can also put a brick on the table, they like to perch on something. I bet he will spend a lot of time in front of the window watching the other pigeons. Don't release him until he's able to eat all kinds of seeds.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Thanks for the update! Yes, it really seems he's doing good!

FOOD
In pigeons and dove mix you can find dry peas (half peas and round peas) like the one in the pictures: have you tried to offer him them? Of course he needs some practice before learning to eat them.
I have some pigeons who love peas, others who don't like them...like people every pigeon has his own taste...as legumes are really important in a correct pigeon's diet you can offer him lentils: my pigeons really love small lentils.

PIGEONS FLIES
Yes, that fluffing is ok!

PLAN
Don't worry about his family and parents. Yes, pigeons are lovely and careful parents but when babies grow up, mum and dad leave them free to live their life and start to think about new babies (like others animals of course). You know, a couple has many babies during life so it would be impossible to take care about all of them all over the life.
Marina B gave you a really good advice about release. 
Before releasing him just think about that:
as you love him, you could miss his company, his friendship and his love. If he doesn't come back home for food and water, you could be worried about him. As you know life outdoor for a pigeon could be hard: there are many illness, predators, accidents and bad people too. My vet told me that average life expectancy for a pet pigeon is about 15/20 years; for a pigeons living outdoor about 5 years.
I told you that just because you seems really worried about him. 
I'm going to tell you my experience. Some years ago I found a baby, Henri: I released him. For a period everything was ok: he used to come to my balcony for food (he loved peas!) and company. Then he disappeared for some weeks. When he came back he was very bad: he was skinny, he had a thread on his fingers and he had something in his beak. We took him and went to the vet. He had thrush (I don't know if this is the right english word: that's a fungal infection) and gangrene at his fingers (so the vet had to amputate some fingers). We took care about him (fortunately Henri is a lucky pigeon: a day or 2 later and it would be too late for him) and now he is ok. He is a member of the family!

Of course this just the experience of my Henri (I have to say that I live in a city with a big traffic, many predators, illness and many many bad people who hate pigeons) and not the rule! I don't want to scare you!


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Our squeaker, Chloe, had pigeon flies that i manually removed. But she also had circovirus and had malaria, per the vet, from the pigeon flies. Malaria is easily seen on a blood sample. If your bird seems sick, checking for malaria might be needed. Poor Chloe had a half dozen things wrong. I hope your bird just has pigeon flies and when those are treated is all better.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Poor Chloe...

In fact I really hate pigeon flies...last summer they made me crazy because there was a great invasion (I also had to spend days on days to look for them hidden in my flat). Fortunately my pigeons didn't get ill.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Look under the pigeons wing and remove any pigeon flies. They like to hide there.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Get a five gallon bucket, and fill it with about 4 gallons of warm water. Add Borax at the rate of about 1 Tablespoon per gallon. Mix well and hold the bird and lower him into the water. Hold him there for a minute or so, with his head above the water of course, then lift him out and let him dry off. It should take care of any bugs.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Many thanks for the advice! fortunately this summer I haven't seen pigeon flies yet but probably next month I'm going to spend a few days in my country house. Of course there are many many insects there and so I'm really really worried..

I have never heard about Borax before. I'm going to read the post on the thread "mites and lice" and watch the video you sent.

As I wrote, actually I'm using Neo Foractil spray (it contains permethtin) which acts against mite, lice and fleas. I noticed that pigeon flies are annoyed by it but fearing a GREAT invasion like summer 2016 I'd like to be ready to fight against them with any others remedies...they really made me crazy...

Yes, I know they love to hide under the wings but I have some difficulties to find them (and also to kill them)  ..they are smart and sly  ....


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## whiteandgraypigeon (Jun 27, 2017)

Thank you again for all your advice.

Jay3 -
We will try this out this weekend. Now we don't have to worry about the toxicity of our pesticide thanks!

cwebster - 
I tried to lift his wings and looked, so far so good. He got much more feather down there now. We haven't seen one flies for more than one week now. Will keep checking his wings. As for the malaria, local vets here won't accept any wild pigeons.. so we could only hope for the best now. Thanks!

Colombina - 
Thanks always for your advice, and sharing of Henri's story. Your points of the friendship and the cruelty in the wild, esp our bird didn't received any training from his parents, are very convincing (his father was seen with his elder brother/sister a couple of days ago, so they are still living together somewhere). Like what you say, our living environments are very similar, crowded city, high rise buildings, and wild birds are considered almost as pests.. We will have it think over again, and hope no matter he goes back to wild or stay with us, he will be as happy as your Henri 

Marina B -
Yes that's a good idea, we will fit something to there. It's only a little less than 2 feet wide, and we have to figure out also shielding him from the surroundings as that window is in fact in our kitchen. He is picky on food, and we went to bird's specialty stores last week to source bird feed he never tried, so he can learn that he has to have new food, although those are unlikely the food he's going to get in the wild.. just trying to let him accustom to eat different food.

A recent photo of him. Thank you again everyone for your help.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

He is just so pretty. Those are great pics. Thanks.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Agree with Jay3, beautiful bird!


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## whiteandgraypigeon (Jun 27, 2017)

Need some help again please.. Unfortunately he seems to got problem with his right foot. This morning as we let him out as usual. To our surprise he is standing on the left foot, and "retracted" his right one to his body. When he tried to walk, he extended the right foot, but is like crippled and only used right foot for a little pivoting. I picked him up, have a look after carefully cleaning all the poopoo on his feet from last night, didn't see any wounds.. 

His right foot and toes can still "stretch" / "extend", and no deformation or broken bone is observed. It doesn't looked as strong though, and is always in an "closed" position, meaning all three fore-toe are like bound together, unlike the left one that is stretched out.

I tried to put a makeshift pad, from kitchen paper towel, on his right side to let him get some rest. He seemed to be comforted a little.

We have saw him "retract" his right foot before, but never as crippled as this morning. We also noticed for some time that his left foot is stronger, but thought that was normal. Did he hurt his tendon or something? Is this serious?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If you can't find any cuts, bruises, or anything on it that would cause this, then maybe he banged it or hit it on something. Let him rest in his cage for a few days, so he isn't walking on it. Maybe he just needs to rest it for a while. On occasion one of my birds will be favoring one foot, with no apparent reason and in a couple of days it seems fine again. Letting him spend time loose in the room alone isn't a good idea as there is just too much they can get into to get hurt.

You could offer him a warm bath to stand in and soak the foot for a while. He might like that.


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## whiteandgraypigeon (Jun 27, 2017)

Thank you so much. He has been resting there for the last couple of hours, and his appetite is good, we didn't move him back to the box but just let him rest on the "sick bay". He seldom move around, but when he did we re-positioned the padding and he seems to be comforted with it. 

Hand fed him with his favorite dried corns in sick bay and he finished them all, and also willing to drink.

I'll try the warm bath. Will let him rest on his favorite perching place (in the photo in thread below), now sick bay, for tonight and stay awake for him.

Thanks again!



Jay3 said:


> If you can't find any cuts, bruises, or anything on it that would cause this, then maybe he banged it or hit it on something. Let him rest in his cage for a few days, so he isn't walking on it. Maybe he just needs to rest it for a while. On occasion one of my birds will be favoring one foot, with no apparent reason and in a couple of days it seems fine again. Letting him spend time loose in the room alone isn't a good idea as there is just too much they can get into to get hurt.
> 
> You could offer him a warm bath to stand in and soak the foot for a while. He might like that.


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## whiteandgraypigeon (Jun 27, 2017)

We just gave him a warm bath for about 5 minutes. He did not resist and seems to be quite enjoyed with it. Since it is not a very hot day we gave him warm air from a hair dryer to dry the feathers. He is resting now on the box. Thanks again Jay3!


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

I'm really starting to think you should keep this pigeon and not release him. He seems happy and content where he is now.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

I agree with Jay3: probably he just hit it on something.

Some years ago my vet explained me a test you can do to be sure his right foot/leg is not broken (maybe you know it and you did it). I'm going to tell you it and send you some pictures (I asked my Geordi to be a model for the tutorial  )

- take your pigeon and gently turn him upside down;
- put your finger in the centre of the sole of the foot and exert a light pressure;
- if the pigeon close his foot and shake your finger with his fingers everything is ok.

If the pigeon is too scared maybe he will not close the foot at the first time you do this test so try it again.

A pigeon needs calcium, minerals and grit to be healthy. You could give him cuttlebone (source of calcium): I cut it in small pieces with scissors and put it in a separate bowl. My pigeons love it and eat it when they feel they need it. It's not expensive (a couple of cuttlebone like the one in the picture costs about 2,30/2,50 euro at the supermarket). If you prefer you can use a calcium complement for drinking water (here in France it's more expensive than cuttlebone: about 18,00 euro).

About minerals and grit you can buy a block salt for pigeons (you can see it in the picture). It contains crushed oyster shells, grit silex, calcium sulphate and minerals like iron, etc. I crumble it with a knife and put in a separate bowl. As cuttlebone, my pigeons love it and eat it when they feel they need it (I always leave both of them available). It costs 3,20 euro.

All these complements will help him to be healthier and strong.

I forgot to say that vit D3 is really important for pigeons because without it they can't absorb the calcium they get (they take it from the sun in nature). You can buy a mixture enriched with vitamins or vitamins for drinking water.

I agree with Marina B.  I'm sure you will adopt him because you love each others now!
Ps: thanks for the pictures: he is so cute


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Sorry I forgot 2 pictures...


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## whiteandgraypigeon (Jun 27, 2017)

Colombina said:


> I agree with Jay3: probably he just hit it on something.
> 
> Some years ago my vet explained me a test you can do to be sure his right foot/leg is not broken (maybe you know it and you did it). I'm going to tell you it and send you some pictures (I asked my Geordi to be a model for the tutorial  )
> 
> ...


Thank you so much!! I will do the test later as he was just fed and is sleeping now. Hope he is alright.. And thanks for the tips on supplements, I think we can get a cuttlefish from market and dry the bone for his calcium.

Last night he stood up a couple of times, and even started flapping wings. We have lights out so was surprised he woke up in the night to do exercise.. Fortunately was able to convince him to sit down and go back to sleep. Today he is still walking crippled. He looked down at his box from the sick bay for some time, so we put him back into it. He then ate happily there, and then sleep. Will keep an eye on him so he don't do the jumping.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You really need a cage for him, and he needs to be kept in it, so as to rest the foot and leg. Letting him out in the room is not going to help him. You need something that you can confine him in. By being let loose in the room, he is going to injure it further.


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## whiteandgraypigeon (Jun 27, 2017)

Jay3 said:


> You really need a cage for him, and he needs to be kept in it, so as to rest the foot and leg. Letting him out in the room is not going to help him. You need something that you can confine him in. By being let loose in the room, he is going to injure it further.


Thanks, we will go look for a cage for him this weekend. You are right, last night i was worrying about him flying out just to hurt his feet further on landing. Everytime I heard he flapping wings my adrenaline pumps and rush right into check out what he is doing.. We let him out last night just for our impression that he is more relaxed on that paper box so he will not try to jump in that plastic box. He never left that sick bay on the paper box. You are right, protecting him is priority.

Just tried the method by Columbina. He is either too obedient or too frightened, doing the pinching at that position got no response at all, on both feet. He was just giving a confused look like, "what are you doing...?" I gently put him back on the blanket after a couple of tries.. We also gave him a warm water bath on his foot this morning. I noticed he can stretch the claws, but seems to be unwilling to, and most of the time keep the "closed" position.

At least once or twice we saw him standing like before, with both foot and the left feet claws stretched fully. Although he still walk like crippled. Hope he will recover soon..

Again, my heartful thank you to all of your help.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Of course Jay3 is right. I kept too my Fabio (he was attacked by a predator: he had a broken leg - he was operated twice - and many others problems) in a small cage in a quiet room. I'm sending you a picture.

About broken leg/foot test I'd like to send you a video but I don't know if it's possible  ...Anyway, you have to find the good place in the sole of the foot. Close the foot and shake the finger it's a reflex. I'm going to send you another picture.

If the foot/leg will not get better soon and you want to be sure it's not broken, be patient and try the test again


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## whiteandgraypigeon (Jun 27, 2017)

Colombina said:


> Of course Jay3 is right. I kept too my Fabio (he was attacked by a predator: he had a broken leg - he was operated twice - and many others problems) in a small cage in a quiet room. I'm sending you a picture.
> 
> About broken leg/foot test I'd like to send you a video but I don't know if it's possible  ...Anyway, you have to find the good place in the sole of the foot. Close the foot and shake the finger it's a reflex. I'm going to send you another picture.
> 
> If the foot/leg will not get better soon and you want to be sure it's not broken, be patient and try the test again


Thank you! Will try again in the morning.

How large is an "average" cage? Large enough for him to turn around and stroll a few steps is minimum? Can pigeon flap wings inside? He flap a lot..

Fabio is great! He must have gone through a lot, I can see his positive attitude and determinations in his eyes.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

It must be large enough for him to flap his wings in. Many people use the metal dog crates as they are fairly inexpensive and come in different sizes. The more room you can give him the better. You can rig up a shelf at one end of the crate, which they like to perch on.


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## whiteandgraypigeon (Jun 27, 2017)

Jay3 -

Thanks for your advice, we will try our best to fit a cage for him.

Colombina -

We can't confirm after several tries, but then his normal foot is not responsive to my test either (again). Interestingly, that negative results bring some relieve to us for the only conclusion is my bad technique. We are grateful to you and wanted to say thank you to Geordi also for offering us options when we have no vet around. Thank you!!

Two days ago we can see he was not as active as usual. Not eating much, and sleep almost all day. I stayed up with him in the past two nights and didn't saw anything unusual. We keep helping him with warm bath on feet in the morning, and putting a pad to support his rest whenever we can. He seems to be having a better appetite since yesterday, and had a big meal this morning. We supported him doing something he seems to love to do - fly and perch on our cooker. We let him there and keep an eye on him.

We still can't find any wounds nor deformity, and he seems to be much willing to stand on both feet, although still crippled when walking. As precautionary steps in case we missed something eyeballing, we wipe his foot with antiseptic alcohol occasionally, and see if he resist strongly for finding any wounds.. Nothing unusual turns up. And everytime he is standing on my palm for resting, I didn't feel any difference in temperature between his feet. Hope he will recover soon!

Thank you again!


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Thanks a lot from Fabio  ! 
Yes, as you said he is a determined and brave pigeon; even if he passed through a really bad experience he has always a positive attitude. 

As he was in a very bad condition my vet told me to keep him in a really small cage because he didn't have to move and needed to rest during his therapy. I used a laundry box + on the top a crocheted cover handmade by my mum (I know...that's strange... ).

I don't keep my pigeons in a cage so honestly I don't have experience with cage. 
I bought a cage in the past because Apple, my broken wing pigeon, needed a long time to improve herself and become again "independent" (now she can do "small flights" and she jumps for example from the floor to the table). 
For that difficult period I took a cage for rodents (I used it especially in the night) size:

Length 1,00 m
Height 0,50 m
Width 0,60 m 

Anyway, I can tell you what I read on the website of a french pigeon rescue group. 

They say you can keep a young pigeon in a cage for rabbit.
Minimum size recommended:

Length 0,65 m
Height 0,43
Width 0,43 

Just for example:
m.zooplus.fr/shop/rongeurs/cage_rongeurs/cage_lapin_rongeurs/cage_petite_lapin/95534 

In a second moment they suggest to buy an aviary for parakeets if possible with wheels (but these one are expensive and I don't know if they are ok for a pigeon).

Recommended size:

Length 1,00 m
Height 1,41 m
Width 0,61 m

Just for example:

m.zooplus.fr/shop/oiseaux/cage_accessoires_oiseaux/cage_perroquet_oiseaux 

On that website they also put a link about dog's cage (probably like the ones mentioned by Jay3): 

m.zooplus.fr/shop/chiens/cage_transport_voiture_chien/cage_chien

As Jay3 wrote, of course a bird needs some shelfs or perch.

I tried again to post a video about the vet test but I'm sorry it's impossible...Many thanks from Geordi, he tried to help you with pleasure  !

Probably in the last days he was no as active as usual and he had not a good appetite because he felt a little pain (as probably he hit his leg/foot). About what you said (appetite, much willing to stand on both feet, same temperature) it seems starting to feel better even if still crippled when walking. Hope too he will recover soon  !


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You don't need an expensive cage. Like I said a dog crate would be fine. You can often get those second hand even. Just wash and disinfect it well.


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## whiteandgraypigeon (Jun 27, 2017)

Colombina said:


> Probably in the last days he was no as active as usual and he had not a good appetite because he felt a little pain (as probably he hit his leg/foot). About what you said (appetite, much willing to stand on both feet, same temperature) it seems starting to feel better even if still crippled when walking. Hope too he will recover soon  !


That's what we were thinking too. Thank you for your wishes!

Jay3 -
Ok, we have a much better idea for what to look for now, thanks!!


Today and yesterday his walking is improved. Although still crippled, he is more willing to stand on both feet and seems to accustom to walk by shifting his balance on his left (good) foot.

He got warm water soaking. He seems so relaxed he drank water from the bath! We were caught by that and didn't responded quick enough, but then on second thought the water and the container are clean, so we just let him do it. We will take note next time when we add borax.

His mom was seen today, opposite to our building (the white dot in one of the photos below, on a strut). I could be wrong here, but he seems to be able to "feel" his parents are around, even though there is no way he could have saw anything about their parents flying in back to that nest on our air-conditioner (where he felt off from the fight of two invading pigeons with his dad). Sometimes out of the blue he will say "feee---- feeee-----". We were puzzled at first, but when we started to speculate whether he is responding his parents, we opened the windows to check. Most of the time we saw his parents are around...

He is so sweet. I never have thought pigeons are so intelligent. Here are something that burnt into our hearts while with him:

- he seems to understand simple words we say. Most obvious one is when i say "eat, eat" to him. Most of the time I refilled the food dish and placed in front of him, he will walk up to the dish and look at me. I'll say "eat, eat", then he eat happily. The "drink, drink" words also worked. Sometime he demanded a change of water in the can lol - I said "drink, drink", he smelled the can, then looked at me like with a question mark on his head. I then realise he might have urinated on it or the water has been stagnant there for too long.. Changed the water, and he drank right away haha.

- I hold him on arm and palm to let him rest sometimes after the morning bedding change. When my arm feel numb for holding in that position for too long, i'd tell him, "hey, can we switch arms? i'm tired." Then he stands up and walk to my other palm i show him and sit down again.

- he is always like a baby when resting on our arms. But all in a sudden he seems very irritated, and wanted to go away. We scratched our heads for some time as there should be nothing around that he has to be worried about. Now we are quite certain that, it's a sign he's going to poo-poo. He just don't want to do it on our arms.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes, they are very smart. Amazing what they can learn.


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## whiteandgraypigeon (Jun 27, 2017)

Got a proper cage for him, and he seems to like it. It is one to two inch smaller than the plastic box on each side, but is the best possible fit we could found. He can turn around and stretch wings. Also found the cuttlebone and grit! Hang the bone on side of the cage. He did peck on it. Looking for a suitable dish for the grit.

With the new cage, we are able to move him to under sunlight in the afternoon. Hope he can recover better with more calcium.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

A simple metal dog crate would have worked better and probably been cheaper. That is a regular bird cage with a regular bird door isn't it? You will have a harder time getting him in and out of it, and he needs room to flap. They need a cage they can outstretch their wings in and flap them for exercise, without hitting the sides of the cage and breaking their feathers. I'm not trying to find fault, but in the long run, it would be much easier. And probably cheaper. If you end up keeping him, he will need more room. The cuttlebone needs to be broken up in bite size pieces.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Glad to hear his walking is improving day by day  !

I'm happy to know you found cuttlebone (Jay3 is right; as I wrote earlier I use too to cut it in small pieces) and grit (I use a simple bowl for cat for it)!

As I wrote I don't have experience with cage (so I could be wrong) but the one you found seems ok for a young pigeon. Of course, he needs a daily out of cage time (so he can flap his wings and exercise himself as Jay3 said) or, better, you could keep him inside the cage just when you need and let him go out the others time (you have to consider that a pigeon is a sociable animal who loves company). If you need any advice about how to organize a room for him I can tell you about my experience. 

Yes, pigeons are really intelligent; they learn many things by themselves, just observing and listening. How did you named him? You will see, just talking with him and calling him, he will learn his name and he will appear when you call him. So yes, they really understand some words!They are curious, they have a great memory, they can recognize people. 

Just for example my pigeons know where I keep their food (they know peas are in the rond box, etc), they learnt daily home timetable (at that time I use to fill their bowl, etc), they ask and wait (like your baby) for fresh water. They ask my help for preparing theirs nests too! Yes, they ask me pieces of paper; so I keep in my hand a piece of paper and they take it with their beak and bring it in their nests.vAnyway, you will discover everything by yourself spending your time with him!

There are some interesting studies you can read about pigeons' intelligence.

They are also, like you said, really sweet. For your baby his family is you now  The 2 babies I adopted last May from my vet (I post a photo that I took when I came back home from my vet) are so sweet and lovely. They love sitting on my legs and staying on my shoulders, arms and...head too! I walk around home having one of them (sometimes they try both to stay there but that's not easy...) on my head like wearing a feathers hat or having a french XVIII century coiffure...  they love to brush my hair too...


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Sorry I forgot the picture...


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Columbina, adorable!
Whiteandgraypigeon, so glad to hear he is doing better! Does he have a name? Love the pattern on him.


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## whiteandgraypigeon (Jun 27, 2017)

Jay3 said:


> A simple metal dog crate would have worked better and probably been cheaper. That is a regular bird cage with a regular bird door isn't it? You will have a harder time getting him in and out of it, and he needs room to flap. They need a cage they can outstretch their wings in and flap them for exercise, without hitting the sides of the cage and breaking their feathers. I'm not trying to find fault, but in the long run, it would be much easier. And probably cheaper. If you end up keeping him, he will need more room. The cuttlebone needs to be broken up in bite size pieces.


Yes, that's a regular bird cage. The side doors are too small for him to be comfortably moved out, but there is a large top opening which is convenient. Although overall it is a little smaller than the previous plastic box, he can still flap his wings. Usually he flaps alot when seeing us preparing meals for him 

True that is a small cage, but for now this is the best we can offer him. We are in a small apartment so until we sort out how to accommodate a larger one (maybe move some of our stuff out to storage space rental elsewhere), we can only compensate by letting him out for as long as possible.

Thanks for letting us know to break the cuttlebone.. the shop told us to hang it on side of the cage, but perhaps he thought we are getting that for parrots.


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## whiteandgraypigeon (Jun 27, 2017)

Colombina said:


> They love sitting on my legs and staying on my shoulders, arms and...head too! I walk around home having one of them (sometimes they try both to stay there but that's not easy...) on my head like wearing a feathers hat or having a french XVIII century coiffure...  they love to brush my hair too...


Very cute pigeon you have in that picture!

Haha yes we did that too! When he saw me cleaning his pad in the morning he love to fly to my back and walk his way up to my shoulders. When cleaning dishes he fly up to my head (cuz i face different direction there, he can't land on shoulder).


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## whiteandgraypigeon (Jun 27, 2017)

Colombina said:


> Glad to hear his walking is improving day by day  !
> 
> I'm happy to know you found cuttlebone (Jay3 is right; as I wrote earlier I use too to cut it in small pieces) and grit (I use a simple bowl for cat for it)!



EDIT: OK i think i figured. Nudged with fingers and those breaks apart. Those that are too hard i'll discard. Getting some with grit for him now.

A small question please.. when i tried to cut the cuttlebone, the pieces came out with very sharp edges. The ones that are more round in shape are so small. It this ok?


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## whiteandgraypigeon (Jun 27, 2017)

cwebster said:


> Columbina, adorable!
> Whiteandgraypigeon, so glad to hear he is doing better! Does he have a name? Love the pattern on him.


We haven't found him a western name yet, but we call him in our dialect "the seventh day of a month", for that is the day we spotted him and consider it his birthday.

By the way his elder sibling is named "the sixth day of a month", because we heard on that day his elder sibling squeak for the first time. We were both very excited that day although that is not the first time we saw the pigeon couple gave birth on that nest.

Yes his pattern wing tip is awesome. His siblings (and previous generations too) all got that wing tip. His father is dark gray and the white wing tip feathers are from his mother who is a pure white.

He still got some "baby hairs", but gradually are shedding off. Very cute.


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## whiteandgraypigeon (Jun 27, 2017)

Marina B said:


> I'm really starting to think you should keep this pigeon and not release him. He seems happy and content where he is now.


Yes deep down in our hearts we wanted to keep him. Hard decision to make


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If you eat chicken eggs, you can boil them for a couple of minutes and break them up into bite size pieces and mix them in with his gravel. That will give him calcium. Now he just needs the vitamin D3 in order to be able to absorb the calcium. If the bits of cuttle bone are very sharp I wouldn't give them to him.


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## whiteandgraypigeon (Jun 27, 2017)

Jay3 said:


> If you eat chicken eggs, you can boil them for a couple of minutes and break them up into bite size pieces and mix them in with his gravel. That will give him calcium. Now he just needs the vitamin D3 in order to be able to absorb the calcium. If the bits of cuttle bone are very sharp I wouldn't give them to him.


Thanks for the tips! Yes we are trying to get D3 for him but the shop specializing in pet food was not open. So for now we put him under sunlight whenever we can. 

And yesterday we have a great sunny day!


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

cwebster said:


> Columbina, adorable!
> Whiteandgraypigeon, so glad to hear he is doing better! Does he have a name? Love the pattern on him.


Thanks a lot cwebster  !!!


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

So hahaha  you too wear a feathers hat!!!

I live too in a small apartment but it's possible to organize it in a cheap way. A pigeon doesn't need a big appartement to be happy: he just needs your love (now his family is you), your company, good seed (and complements) and fresh water. He doesn't ask a lot to be happy! So don't worry about the cage, it's ok. The only important thing is that you let him go out from it every time you can.

Do you remember the rodents cage I bought years ago for my broken wing pigeon Apple? I put it in a room of my apartment: now live there Fabio and his wife Miss Nerone (she has too a really sad story; one day I will tell you about). The cage is always open: they go there sleeping, they make their nest inside it. It's like their private apartment: they go out from it and go inside when they prefer! Maybe even your pigeon will choose his cage as his apartment and do like Fabio and Miss Nerone! 

Pigeons are really sensitive animals; they suffer for stress (they can also get ill from stress). This is another reason why they love living at home: they have there love, safety and tranquility. My pigeons really don't want to come back to the street! 
So if you need any advice about organization, ask me; if I can I will help you with pleasure (ahah I did all my best to find the easier, more practical and cheaper solution for organize myself ).

About cuttlebone, you can discard the pieces with very sharp edges as Jay3 said.

I love the name you gave him in your dialect: even if I don't know its sounds in your language I really like his meaning because it shows your interest and love about him. I think it's poetic: at your place I will no find him a western name!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Putting him in front of a window won't give him the UV rays of the sun that he needs, as the window glass and even screen will block most of those rays from the sun from coming in. Can you open the window? I'm sure the sun feels good to him and it's nice and bright, but it just won't help him with his vit. D that he needs in order to absorb the calcium.


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## whiteandgraypigeon (Jun 27, 2017)

Jay3 said:


> Putting him in front of a window won't give him the UV rays of the sun that he needs, as the window glass and even screen will block most of those rays from the sun from coming in. Can you open the window? I'm sure the sun feels good to him and it's nice and bright, but it just won't help him with his vit. D that he needs in order to absorb the calcium.


Oh yes the windows are open, our home is an average flat with no fixed glass windows.. unlike those luxury house with fixed window glasses. We opened that window for him to welcome the sunlight.

I read on Internet the mechanism about how pigeons absorbs sunlight (in his tail glands) to produce vit. D, so tried to do that for him.. hope this weekend the pet food specialty store will open, that will be much more efficient


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## whiteandgraypigeon (Jun 27, 2017)

A little update of him - he is doing great, and we believe he enjoyed having us as company. The last addition for him is a nest (from pet bird store) on an old IKEA lamp post. He loved it, as with other play zones in home.

There's a big surprise to us from him some weeks ago. We let him stroll on desk while we are at home, with the computer keyboard covered with magazine. One night I forgot to cover the keyboard and went to make dinner. When i'm back, the screen is like this.. What do you see in the browser URL line ? 

I think he is trying to say "i'm ok", with a signature of himself (a beak, round head, and wings). Amazing!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Oh.............that's very cute.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Agree hes very cute!


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## whiteandgraypigeon (Jun 27, 2017)

Last Friday we celebrated 7th-day's first birthday! He got extra treats and a new, bigger water drinking can, and also a pack of new grit as gift.

It has been almost a year since he entered our life, and we are lucky he accepted us as family. He is always gentle, although sometimes naughty, and always happy to see us come back home from work.

In this year, we made a trusting relationship with him, and tried everything we could to make him happy. We learnt what to feed him, how to lead him back into the cage to sleep at night, play the nest building game with him, prepared an evacuation box just in case, and how to shower him when he wants to. We stayed with him in home for as long as we can so he got companions. He enjoyed it when we groom each other. It is just wonderful. Borrowing from a member on this forum once said, no word can describe the feeling he lands on our shoulders. 

Without all the help from this forum it is hard for us to take care of him. Thank you very much!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Thanks for the update. Glad everything is going well. He's a very pretty bird.


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## whiteandgraypigeon (Jun 27, 2017)

This is a letter from him, he didn't actually typed it but i transcribed it when I was playing with him and looked into his eyes.


Hi Mom, Dad,

I hope you are all well. It has been over a year since I became a member in Uncle and Aunt's family. I am happy and lived well. 

Everyday in the morning uncle will greet me and let me out from the cage. I can fly free for like an hour, before uncle pick me up and back into the cage for breakfast. Then after a while I'll see him in some weird shirt and tie he don't wear in home, and say goodbye to me, and promise to come back right away for me after work. 

After the door is closed, I will walk in a small cage in the day, eat when hungry, drink when thirsty, and waited for uncle to come back. Uncle told me don't be naughty when he is not here because he can see me in office with a webcam, but i don't care because i don't know what a webcam is. It is quite boring in the cage, but it is unbelieveably happy when I hear uncle opens the door in the evening and the first thing he would do is to say hello to me and let me out to fly and play around anywhere in home. Dinner will come shortly afterwards with my cage cleaned.

Recently, uncle told me his office is relocated to somewhere close to our home. He is then able to come back to grab a quick lunch. I am happy because I have him as companion during the day when he is back for lunch. But he is always in a hurry during lunch hour. Anyway, it is a good thing. 

Occasionally uncle will stay all day with me, without wearing that strange tie and shirt. He said it is Saturday and Sunday and he wanted to stay with me all day.

Sometimes, like when i am resting on uncle's shoulder or having a shower, he told me he is sorry about keeping me here. He said he had no choice but to keep me here for otherwise I would be in very dangerous situations when i was young, too young before i can fly. He wanted you two to know he feels bad to keep me here, separating me from you two. He wanted me to told you he honestly apologize for what he did.

Mom, Dad, don't worry about me. I knew dad anxiously looked at me when uncle picked me up from a water pipe where I almost fell off. We knew Dad was worried. So don't worry anymore, I'm good and happy in uncle's family.

Bests,
7th day


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