# Told feeding the pigeons is a breach of my tenancy agreement?



## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

I have been sent a letter by Hammersmith and Fulham Council in London, UK that states that they have been told that I am feeding verminous birds and hanging out feeders that are attracting verminous birds. I have been asked to go in and meet with the council.
I know what this meeting is going to be about and I need to know my legal situation.
I gather that I will have to stop feeding the pigeons on the estate, although I am in regular chats with my neighbors and I do not think they have complained about me. I think this is the council becoming more and more dictatorial because they have been unable to reduce the number of pigeons in the borough. This is because a huge amount of high calorific food is being dropped by the dirty human population, but its all the pigeons fault. I'm sure many of you know what I mean.

As some of you are aware from my other thread, I have seen so many sick and maimed pigeons in the borough that I have decided to do something about it. I take any pigeons in that are ill(if I can catch them) and I am learning how to bring them back to good health so they can be released. To do this I need to be able to look at the pigeons in the local flocks and to do this I need to put out some food. Can the council stop me feeding the pigeons on the river front or in the local greens and parks?

If anyone can offer solid legal advice regarding this or point me in the direction of those who can I would be very grateful.

I have been told about Picas, who are a humane pigeon control company who apparently have a good knowledge of the law regarding pigeons, but I have spoken to them and have been told that someone will ring me back but I have heard nothing so far.

Any advice or help much appreciated.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Hi, I live in Australia, not the UK, but I feel very sympathetic towards your compassionate attitude towards sick & hurt pigeons in your area, so I looked up the policy of the Fulham Council . There seems to be some information here:

http://www.lbhf.gov.uk/Directory/En...al_health/Pest_control/76403_Poll_Pigeons.asp

The part that I read that relates to your questions is:

``There are no rules that relate directly to the act of pigeon feeding but in extreme cases we can consider investigate an alleged offence of “littering”. Section 18 of the Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act 2005 has widened section 87 of the Environmental Protection Act 1990 so that it is now an offence to drop litter anywhere in a place in the open air to which the public are entitled or permitted to have access with or without payment. The food being deposited might constitute “litter”. 
A local authority can take steps for the purpose of abating or mitigating any nuisance, annoyance or damage caused by the congregation in any built-up area of pigeons.''

If this article is correct, then all they can charge you with, in an extreme case, is littering, and they would need proof (which you might assume that they probably have in form of photos and/or witnesses- my own council in Australia goes around taking photos of people feeding birds). If it were me, I would make sure to let them present the evidence before admitting to doing anything that is not already documented by them.

Something else that I noticed is that the council you've mentioned have used falconers in the past to scare away pigeons, which is highly effective . My own council has tried this too, also with great results, but the downside is the hawks (or eagles) have to be flown regularly, and its very expensive to hire falconers. I guess your council are looking for ways to save money, and intimidating people like you seems like the better answer perhaps?

So in a nutshell, don't admit to anything they have not documented or witnessed. Let them present the evidence. Agree to do they want. Like you said, the problem is much bigger than you, and it sounds like they already have a good solution, but they are too cheap to implement it.

What do you think?


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

I am aware of the section of the h&f website where the pigeon policy is stated, but they do not seem to be pursuing that angle. The wording in the letter is that I am attracting 'verminous' birds. As you rightly say, if they are pursuing the litter angle then they need proof that I am leaving littler behind. I have been very careful never to put quite enough food down so that the birds clear it completely.

The other matter is pigeons being 'verminous'. Pigeons are not classified as vermin by UK law as far as I know, so h&f seem to be changing the parameters as it pleases them. This is what worries me, the council do not normally make threats unless they are on certain ground. I think they can twist this any way they want and get away with it because there is a campaign against pigeons.

I appreciate your help, but I need more certain information. Remember, if I defy them and get it wrong I will lose my tenancy. On the other hand if I feel I have a good chance of winning, then I will enjoy a fight. I see no point in martyring myself though.

Thank you for your suggestions.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Hi, I totally understand. I hope I didn't come across as trying to push you into a fight you may not win. I don't actually have an opinion about whether you should or shouldn't fight this. It is a legal question for a lawyer I would think? I mostly wanted to offer you some support and sympathy. Its great that you help those birds. A lot of us who help pigeons have laws going against us


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

The way the letter is worded is as if someone has complained in that way.
As you rightly say, Pigeons are NOT verminous, but feeding them can cause vermin if any food is left.
I honsestly think they have left themselves wide open by writing this, as it shows they know nothing about the birds.
This is typical "council" routine, where pen pushers have a job to do, but know little about a situation (in this case the birds) and have done no research before acting.
They may however be trying to investigate a complaint and this is why they wish to speak to you, although by wording it this way, it just shows their ignorance.
Have a good look over your tennancy agreement first. 
See if there is any mention of feeding any birds whatsoever.
Do you have any friends or family in the legal profesion that could have a look at letter & agreement & give you advice ?


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

Hi bella_F,
I'm afraid it may have been me who was coming across too strong by the way you took my message.
I appreciate your support and advice greatly. I am suffering from frustration regarding this matter because the council have almost unlimited powers because I am a tenant of theirs. The council are becoming more and more militant in the way they are applying those powers as well and it seems almost impossible to know if you have a strong case against them.
In my attempt to analyse and cut through the matter my language may have sounded a little confrontational, I'm sorry if that is the case.

I appreciate all support and help. Thank you.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

I agree with you Quazar, the letter does show an ignorance regarding the pigeons. There has never been an issue with the food being left behind as I never put enough food out so it is always consumed within 20mins.
I know this council and they are very good at fighting court battles, they have become increasingly militant in an attempt to deal with anti-social tenants, but I don't really think feeding the birds comes under anti-social behavior !

What I THINK they are driving at is I suspect there is a clause in my tenancy agreement(I have yet to find it) about behavior causing vermin, and they are trying to tackle my feeding under behavior which is causing vermin. As the pigeons and not legally counted as vermin I don't know if this will stand up in court. They may try and make an argument that the food encourages vermin, so I have started taking photos of before and after I have fed the birds to show there is nothing left behind. I don't know if these will be accepted as proof if there objective is to stop me feeding the birds.

I may have to accept that I cannot feed the birds on the green outside my house and in my garden, but I would like to know if they can stop me feeding the birds down by the river and in the parks and greens around the borough?

I would state again that h&f have a reputation for being quite competent in court, so I must be sure of my position. This is why I am trying to find someone who has actual knowledge of this area of law. I will ring Picas again on Monday, hopefully they will be a little more co-operative than they have been up until now.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Unless there is any notices up around the public areas you feed away from youre abode stating specifically that it is an unlawful practice, there is NOTHING they can do in that respect to reflect it back to your tennancy or agreement. 
Joe Public Tourist could feed the birds, and they wouldnt be able to stop them. In fact, Joe public could throw seed around your place and theres nothing they can do to them appart from class it as "litter"
If however your tennancy agreement does include a negation of feeding birds, then they would need proof, but would be under obligation to warn you about the practice (in a legal manner - by letter) in the first instance, stating why & also including either an excerpt from the agreement, or referencing Section/Page/Paragraph etc.)
I would also look closely about any rules for keeping Pets, and types of pet etc. some allow with written permission, some dont, and they could class your 2 little rescues as "pets".
I really think it would be better to find someone from the legal profession or even try through CAB (Citizens Advice Bureau).


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

A lot depends on whats in the tenancy agreement, I need to find it. I'm not very good at filing things away. It is here somewhere and i'll try to find it tonight. At the moment they don't know about my 2 little friends, and I have no intention of telling them.

There is a possibility that they are coming over all heavy in the hope of frightening me into stop feeding them. It all depends on whats in the tenancy. I do need proper legal advice, but you would be surprised by what little is known about this subject, especially when it comes to the extent of the local authorities powers. I was hoping there might be someone here who would know something about it.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

If anyone would like to comment on the following point I would be interested to hear opinions - 

Having thought about it a bit, I think they are using this term 'verminous birds' intentionally. I think they are defining 'verminous birds' by the way they act. In other words it does not matter whether the pigeons are classified as vermin, but whether they act in a 'verminous' way. If this is the case then the definition of 'vermionous' becomes important. The definition of vermin is 'Various small animals or insects, such as rats or cockroaches, that are destructive, annoying, or injurious to health'. If they can prove that the pigeons I am feeding are destructive or annoying or injurious to health then I think they will be able to make a case against me?

I would appreciate any feedback anyone has on the above.

Thank you.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

I know I was told once that although feeding wasn't a crime as such I could be fined for littering.

I know Pigeon Queen has a lot of exerience on this front in her area so I'll msg her to see if she can add to this.

So sorry you're having this problem.

Janet


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Hi BHenderson,

Just as a thought, have you ever looked into getting a wildlife carers permit, or what it would entail? 

The reason I suggest it is that providing food, such as grain, for wildlife during the `soft release' phase of rehabilitation is a necessary part of their care, and Councils cannot easily do anything about it, that I know of.

I have a friend, for example, who specialises in rehabilitating AUstralian crows (who eat a lot of grain as part of their diet) and she provides food to her wild flock every morning. She lives in a rural area, but her neighbours once complained bitterly about the crows, and the council was sent to her home to ask her to stop feeding them. When she said she is a wildlife carer, and explained about soft releases, they never bothered her again.

Just as a precaution, I pay my wildlife caring fees every year, just in case I get that knock on the door form the council.


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## PigeonQueen (Aug 13, 2006)

Hello. You are right about what you say about the Council becoming more militant. They have so much power which they often abuse and if you are a Council tenant you little chance of fighting back simply because the government is going to be cutting legal aid.They will try to give you an ASBO or do you for STATUTORY NUISANCE or a LITTER OFFENCE. These are the three things they use if you don't stop feeding.Tell Housing Manager you are going to stop feeding.Don't argue it out with them whatever you do. They will have spies and could possibly video or photograph you-belive me I know.

I would advise you not to feed anywhere on the Council Estate. You say you have regular chats with your neighbours and you don't think they will have complained.Get real because believe me someone has. I hope you haven't told anyone about having pigeons inside the property. Do not have cosy chats with neighbours about pigeons.You must not tell anyone about what your are doing.

It is not illegal to feed wild birds and pigeons are wild birds. However you have to find out whether there is a ByLaw in Hammersmith which prevents the feeding of pigeons. There are several cities and towns in the UK which have introduced a ByLaw.I dont think Hammersmith is included. You will have to find out though from the Council. Don't rely on what the Housing Department tell you find out for yourself by ringing Environmental section.

The Housing department might try to make you sign a acceptable behaviour agreement. Do not agree as you are then admitting you are doing something wrong and then they use this to give you an ASBO because you have not complied and have continued to feed.There could be CPO Officer at the meeting.

Pigeon feeding is now considered as ANTI SOCIAL BEHAVIOUR. Dont be intimidated, dont agree to anything. Say you wantlegal advice before you commit. But I would just say you are giong to stop feeding because thats all they want to know. Do not discuss where you might beable to feed with them!!!

I think you should stop talking to people on the estate and share your interest with those who really care about pigeons. I would feed elsewhere and always be discreet.I would remove feeders from balcony and tell everyone you have stopped feeding and feed elsewhere.Take a train to Waterloo, Victoria etc and theres loads of pigeons that need your help. Just dont do it on your doorstep.

You are a Council Tenant and you will not win. However go to Law for All or another Housing Law centre in Hammersmith and they will advise you.Theres a possibility you could still get legal aid.To be honest its best to stop feeding because you can become discreet and operate else where in peace.Do not admit to feeding. Say you have stopped and tell the neighbours no more of your business. A friendly smile is not a sign of a trusted friend as I found out. 

If you want to private message me with a landline number (not mobile) I can advise further.Best wishes and good luck.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

I have been to Hammersmith and Fulham law centre and it is still possible to get legal aid for advice. Apparently this is going to change with the new rules though. I have been advised that H&F council could well issue me with a notice of seeking possession order, but that this is normal procedure and that it is the way H&F nip any bad behavior in the bud. Basically I was advised to do the same as PigeonQueen said, that is to say that I have stopped feeding the pigeons and taken all feeders down. I was told that the notice of seeking possession will be forgotten about and I can then go about my business, just make sure if I start helping the pigeons again that I keep it more low key so I am not noticed.

I will write up tomorrow what happens at the H&F meeting.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Brian,

I just wanted to wish you good luck with the meeting.
Jayne knows too well what these people will say, so her advice is well heeded. In a way lucky you know before you go in and hopefully you can then tailor your response to enable you to carry on in a way that will save you getting future hassle.
Terrible that you have to live by such rules and are not free to enjoy the pleasure of interacting with wild life in a care free way.

All the best

Janet


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Since PQ has given you the name of a Law centre in your area, hopefully find your tenancy agreement and contact the centre for advice as well. Best of luck, do not worry too much.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

Hi all, I thought I would write up what happened today so everyone knows how this eneded.
I had a meeting with my housing officer, she was the only one that was there and it was a very informal meeting. It turns out that PigeonQueen was right and my housing officer has had several complaints from neighbors, so I will avoid talking to my neighbors from now on. They obviously are not being honest with me and I cannot be friends with people who are not being honest in their comments.
I told my housing officer that I had now stopped feeding the birds and taken down the feeders. I was not issued with a notice of seeking possession, I will just be sent a letter stating what was agreed in the meeting. I have not been asked to sign anything. I think in general I am considered an easy person to deal with and they did not feel the need to use threats. As long as I do not feed the birds any more, I think that will be an end of the matter.

Because I was able to put the meeting off by a week, I have been able to slowly reduce the food I have been putting out, and the majority of the birds seem to have gone. There are a few birds that seem reluctant to give up. I can understand this because I have been feeding them every day for almost a year and they probably cannot work out what has happened.
I went out today and the birds were on my roof waiting for me, as usual they all flew down around my feet expecting to be fed. A few landed on my head and shoulders, and did something that they have not done before, they nibbled at my ear lobes! It was so sweet, and I suspect a sign of their growing desperation for food. This whole business is making me feel very sad, the council is forcing me to punish these birds through no fault of their own and I will not forgive them for that. Before I went to the meeting today I gave them their last meal, 2 loaves of brown bread. I know bread is not the best food for them, but I did not have enough money to buy lots of seed and I knew the bread would at least give them the sense of a full stomach.
From know on, no matter how sweetly they nibble at my ear lobes, I cannot feed them as I am unsure who the spies are and I could be grassed up. This is going to be very painful, and as I said I will not forget that the council has forced me to do this.
The whole episode has made my mind up for me though, I am now convinced that I want to help these birds and any other wildlife that I can. I intend to learn about medicine for these birds and I will keep an eye out for ill ones, especially any ill birds who have become ill because they have not left my house and have starved themselves. I feel a special obligation to these birds. My brother is going to help me organise my house better so I will have places for them.

I think I have told some of you, but I used to work in computers, and I was very good at it and earned a lot of money. I was very unhappy for all my riches. I am now happy and poor, and I expect to remain poor, but I also hope to volunteer to work at refuges and havens for wildlife, and ultimately to work in one of these places. This is the only work I am now interested in. Fortunately this type of work fits well with my pagan beliefs, and I have a sense of making up for some of the terrible things man does to the wildlife by doing this type of work.
I am not distorted in my opinion, I realise that the positive side of mans achievements gives us the medicine with which to treat these animals. I just hope the positive achievements of man outweigh the negative, and I hope my little effort adds to the positive.

May I also add that the help I have received from this message board has been invaluable, and I feel I am amongst like minded people that see the beauty in pigeons that I see.

Thank you all.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Brian,
well seems like you did the rights things at the meeting. Definitely best for your own sake to seem to comply, the last thing ou need is to lose your home.

I felt quite sad after reading your note to think that you'd made the decision to leave the rat race to enjoy a calmer sort of life only to be hounded by two faced neighbours wanting to stop you helping out these poor birds.
Unfortunately it happens all over the place and from once being able to feed pigeons anywhere you went we now have to try not to get caught out doing it.

AT least you know where you stand and I'm pleased it hasn't completely put a stop to your desire to work with pigeons and wildlife as you seem to have the knack!!!

I can imagine how hard it must be for you not ignore their pleas to be fed. DO watch out for any that may be having a hard time without your food so you can catch any health problems before they become too sick. It's good in a way they will land on you as it might make it easier to catch them if needed.
They are very clever birds and hopefully will find new feed sources before the winter kicks in.

Thanks for the update and let us know if you have any more news.

Janet


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## PigeonQueen (Aug 13, 2006)

Hello Brian and thanks for your update. I am sorry that you are now unable to feed your feathered friends on the Estate but at least you can continue to feed and monitor other flocks nearby.You can still bring the sick ones home if you take a small bag with you. You have to be discreet. 

I think you should continue to speak to your neighbours when you pass them by rather than ignore them. Be pleasant, a quick hello and then on your way. Tell them nothing about what you do.Talk about the weather etc.

I know it's going to be painful having to say goodbye to the pigeons who have become your friends. Pigeons are so sociable and so pleasing to be around. No one can stop you feeding elsewhere as there is no ByLaw in Hammersmith for feeding pigeons. However you must still be careful as you will get hostility from ignorant people if you make yourself too public.You can make new piggie friends and feed when there are less people around. No one can stop you feeding. You just have to be careful where and when. .

I wish you all the very best Jayne


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## lindylou (Jul 25, 2009)

BHenderson said:


> I agree with you Quazar, the letter does show an ignorance regarding the pigeons. There has never been an issue with the food being left behind as I never put enough food out so it is always consumed within 20mins.
> I know this council and they are very good at fighting court battles, they have become increasingly militant in an attempt to deal with anti-social tenants, but I don't really think feeding the birds comes under anti-social behavior !
> 
> What I THINK they are driving at is I suspect there is a clause in my tenancy agreement(I have yet to find it) about behavior causing vermin, and they are trying to tackle my feeding under behavior which is causing vermin. As the pigeons and not legally counted as vermin I don't know if this will stand up in court. They may try and make an argument that the food encourages vermin, so I have started taking photos of before and after I have fed the birds to show there is nothing left behind. I don't know if these will be accepted as proof if there objective is to stop me feeding the birds.
> ...


Just a suggestion. If the Council does indeed have pictures of the seed you have put down or pictures of you feeding the pigeons (of course, you will not know what they have until you meet with them), could you perhaps take before and after pictures of the amount of seed you put down, some of the area after they clean it up. Also regarding referring to the pigeons as "vermin", there is an excellent educational video that can be viewed AND RECOMMENDED on the Web called "Pigeons In The City" put out by the Wildlife Society of Pheonix, Arizona, in which this idea that they are "disease carrying vermon (not correct) is addressed. The video brings out that there has not been even ONE documented case where health officials can hold that case up and with definitive proof say" that person became ill from being around a pigeon as far as feral populations are concerned. It could also be argued that seed is biodegradable and top quality seed is used and therefore does not fit the criteria for "littler" as such. Since you say you would be up for a fight but not an unwinable one, I would certainly at least get the opinion of legal council. If they continue to go after you, perhaps going to the press with the story would help cause them to back down. They may not want the bad publicity.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

Hi Lindylou
its good to hear from you. I liked your post and its good to know I am not alone in the problems I have at the moment.
The most awful part of this whole business, as you rightly pointed out, is having to watch the desperation of the pigeons right outside my house. But your message has given me a few ideas. I am determined not to abandon these birds. Although it is not my fault that I have been forced to stop feeding them, neither is it their fault that they cannot understand what has changed. I have been thinking that there is a park not far from the estate, and I could start moving the place I feed them down in stages until I am in the park. The park is on my Feeding rounds anyway, I feed the birds as often as I can in places I know they gather, this is a way for me to keep a look out for ill ones as well. The idea you have given me is obvious really, but I did not think of its usefulness until you said it. I am on about rising early before the various sneaks and miseries are up and out looking to spoil someones day. Obviously the pigeons do not rise at the break of day, but if they realised that there was food available early they may start turning up. This is my new plan starting this weekend(when the next money comes in lol). I will not abandon these little fellows, especially as they are now starving themselves on my account and it being so close to the change to winter weather.

I enjoyed your post, like you say we have much in common. If you had seen how my relationship with pigeons started you would never guess that I would become a devotee of these wonderful birds. Initially I found them a pest because they were nicking the food I was putting out for the other birds. Within a short time I found ways of using certain feeders to feed different birds, and I started putting out separate food for the pigeons. I was won over by these birds in short order and have been smitten ever since.

I am committed to buying books to do with medical treatment of birds at the moment, but the book you suggested is on my wishlist. The film you mentioned also interests me, its always good to have information in an easily digestible form for people who are open to changing their mind. There is a film by the same name on youtube, 15 mins long, is this the same film?

Pigeons have also helped me open up my whole relationship with nature. Having lived in a city all my life, when I was moved to this estate by the river I was immediately exposed to more wildlife than I have been in the whole of my life. I had already thrown in my job by this time, and had taken up an alternative, pagan based, belief system. The pigeons have taught me not to look or talk down to nature, but to approach it on a level playing field. I do not communicate with pigeons by treating them like idiots, but by treating them as different to me. A more respectful approach. It is my understanding of pigeons that has made this possible, and this understanding has now spread to all my dealings with nature, material and spiritual !!!!.

I dont know if you have seen my other thread in the feral pigeons section, "Two baby feral pigeons", but I am still looking after the weaker of the two pigeons. I let the other one go as he seemed to want to leave. I console myself by my growing relationship with this little fellow, although I would never dream of denying him his freedom just to be my pet. While he is with me though he has brought me much joy, and because I have learnt so much about treating pigeons from this little fellow and the help from other members of this board, that information will now go on to help lots of other pigeons I hope.

I hope we get a chance to talk again, but in the meantime it was lovely hearing from you. Its nice at this time to know I am not the only one who has had to stop feeding his pigeons through no fault of their own. They are such wonderful birds as you know !!!!

Brian.

P.s. I was going to quote the private message you sent me, but on reviewing it I decided there was information in there that you might not want to make public.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

BHenderson said:


> ..... The idea you have given me is obvious really, but I did not think of its usefulness until you said it. I am on about rising early before the various sneaks and miseries are up and out looking to spoil someones day. Obviously the pigeons do not rise at the break of day, but if they realised that there was food available early they may start turning up. This is my new plan starting this weekend(when the next money comes in lol). I will not abandon these little fellows, especially as they are now starving themselves on my account and it being so close to the change to winter weather......


You'd be surprised just how early city pigeons rise lol
They are usually up and about at first light and have a routine of places they visit for food and have incredible timing. Once they get used to your new times, they will be there waiting for you. It only takes a few & the rest will follow very quickly.


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## naturelover123 (Jul 28, 2014)

Here in Los Angeles California it's a mixed blessing.
Feeding pigeons brings flock of them and its a nice feeling to see them around, roosting on window sills, on roofs and electric wires.
All of the sudden the Health Department sends in an Inspection Report with about a dozen of references from Municipal Code mandating the landlord to abate the pigeons, even if the tenant feeding the birds is 93 years old woman.
When proper notice is issued and the tenant continues to feed the pigeons the landlord has little chance to continue to be nice. None of this would happen if pigeons are fed somewhere else, like open places away from houses, apartments, schools, businesses and so forth. 
I also have witnessed a tragic incident when someone was feeding pigeons on street and not all birds flew away to avoid approaching car. The person feeding the pigeons was asking if anyone remembered the license plate. I told him pigeons are lured by feed, and what he did was not a favor to poor birds. Why cant he do both, feed the birds and comply with law. All he has to do is chose suitable spot.


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## naturelover123 (Jul 28, 2014)

BHenderson said:


> A lot depends on whats in the tenancy agreement, I need to find it. I'm not very good at filing things away. It is here somewhere and i'll try to find it tonight. At the moment they don't know about my 2 little friends, and I have no intention of telling them.
> 
> There is a possibility that they are coming over all heavy in the hope of frightening me into stop feeding them. It all depends on whats in the tenancy. I do need proper legal advice, but you would be surprised by what little is known about this subject, especially when it comes to the extent of the local authorities powers. I was hoping there might be someone here who would know something about it.


It all depends on what are you trying to do. If your reasons are genuine and all you want is to feed the pigeons, then it is just a matter of choosing suitable spot. But if you are trying to challenge the authorities then this is obviously the wrong forum.
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

You might want to check the date of this thread.

Also note that this is in the UK, and there are circumstances around this that may apply to the poster and others in his particular situation, but not to everyone.

This is the right forum for the thread, btw. The poster is a pigeon rescuer.


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## naturelover123 (Jul 28, 2014)

John_D said:


> You might want to check the date of this thread.
> 
> Also note that this is in the UK, and there are circumstances around this that may apply to the poster and others in his particular situation, but not to everyone.
> 
> This is the right forum for the thread, btw. The poster is a pigeon rescuer.


The date is fine. Pigeons are still around. UK or in any other country pigeons are also still there. Obviously Posting is available to anyone, hence your posts.
Pigeon Rescuer is a fine medium for sharing thoughts on how to rescue pigeons. Challenging Authorities is something else. Like Mic Jagger says "... you can't always get what you want..."


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

he was just saying Brians thread is old news. 2011.. the dates are at the top left of the posts.

allot of changes and circumstances can chance in three years.


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