# Can ya give me any thought about this bird?like?dislike?



## blongboy (Nov 10, 2009)

6 picture down ..it's the 2nd picture the bluebar cock bird .....looks nice right ..very big right .. i might take him in depending on ya thoughts...



http://www.whiteracers.20m.com/photo_10.html


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Why all the different Club Letters?????


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## blongboy (Nov 10, 2009)

sky tx said:


> Why all the different Club Letters?????


i dont know...


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## rpalmer (Mar 10, 2011)

The bird looks very nice. I have contacted Dennis not long ago for his advise. I found him to be a pretty nice guy and honest. I have also had contact with one of his friends that I envy his race results. Considering everything I would not hesitate buying any bird he has. 

That's my take.


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## rpalmer (Mar 10, 2011)

sky tx said:


> Why all the different Club Letters?????


What club letters???


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Maybe I looked at the Pictures wrong??
most of the birds had different Club Letters?
10-11 different clubs or what?


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## blongboy (Nov 10, 2009)

it said MM


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## rpalmer (Mar 10, 2011)

sky tx said:


> Maybe I looked at the Pictures wrong??
> most of the birds had different Club Letters?
> 10-11 different clubs or what?


Maybe I'm looking at the wrong bird? I was looking at 5th down vertically when I first posted (AU 09 PLF 9935 Blue Bar Cock). Then I counted 6 down vertically and got AU 10 CRF 257 Pied Blue Check W/F Cock. 

So now I'm looking at the 6th picture left to right and see a BB Special.

I have no idea of what 6 down is now.


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## blongboy (Nov 10, 2009)

rpalmer said:


> Maybe I'm looking at the wrong bird? I was looking at 5th down vertically when I first posted (AU 09 PLF 9935 Blue Bar Cock). Then I counted 6 down vertically and got AU 10 CRF 257 Pied Blue Check W/F Cock.
> 
> So now I'm looking at the 6th picture left to right and see a BB Special.
> 
> I have no idea of what 6 down is now.


yea 6 down and 1 to the left ....that why i said 2nd lol


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## rpalmer (Mar 10, 2011)

blongboy said:


> yea 6 down and 1 to the left ....that why i said 2nd lol


OK. AU 08 MM 10279 Blue Bar Cock. Got it. With his neck down like that he looks like a bull. Put some sunglasses on him and he'd look like a bouncer. LOL.

Here is the the best advise I can give you not excluding my first post. If you don't get what you want then you will have regret. And regret is a hard thing to live with and made worse when you know it can be avoided.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

sky tx said:


> Why all the different Club Letters?????


He didn't breed the birds - they came from various lofts.


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## Josepe (Jan 10, 2011)

Came from different lofts??


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## blongboy (Nov 10, 2009)

MaryOfExeter said:


> He didn't breed the birds - they came from various lofts.


got any thought on the bird?? beckey??


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## Goingatitagain (Feb 5, 2011)

I 'll tell the one I like is under his long distance bird category.

AU 09 VIK 3832 Red Check Hen

I don't know if you're looking for a hen though


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I'd love to get some birds that Dennis bred. Don't have the money though 

Looking at the long distance birds. I think I found 4 birds I want 
First I want AU 09 VIK 3657 (DC Cock) and mate him to AU 09 AHPI 7639 (DC Hen). They just look like they'd go together. Pedigree-wise I'd say they would too.
Then I would take AU 09 VIK 3649 (DC grizzle cock) and mate him to AU 07 VIK 8740 (RC hen).

The more I look at them, the more I wish I had money!  UGH. I am now attached to those two pair, haha.


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## HmoobH8wj (Apr 7, 2011)

blong you always buy your pigeon from them?
is it worst it?


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## blongboy (Nov 10, 2009)

HmoobH8wj said:


> blong you always buy your pigeon from them?
> is it worst it?


hit and miss lol i like the one i have now too ...it was just a eye catcher bird lol


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## HmoobH8wj (Apr 7, 2011)

what dose the eye tell you?

i dont get how and i wanna learn how to read pigeon eyes. msg me


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## 1981 (Aug 9, 2006)

If you want more information on the bird, I suggested you look up the club band information on the AU site to contact the original owner. They will definitely have more information on that bird, since the majority of the birds that he is selling is from different clubs. If you like white birds, then Dennis in the guy to go to.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

I think looking at a picture of a bird tells us little. Also breeder aside, what does proven breeder mean? What is the birds lineage, race record, or breeding record. Stocking him in my book would be taking a chance whether he was straight from Koopman, Ganus, or the breeder. Unless I know more, $55 is still too much on chance. I spent $50 on a daughter of a National Winner in Belgium. Still a chance in my book. Not ever bird in the best of the best's loft is a great or even good bird. Its for sale for $55 for a reason. I would rather spend $55 on an offspring off the bird. That way you could test it before you stock it.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

I hope you do not think I am putting Dennis down. He has a great reputation. Just I would want to know more about the bird. If he says its a proven breeder, then he should have some results he could show you.


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

I say if you like the bird and it's worth the $55 to you then take it! That's what it really boils down to at least for me. If you can get performance results even better! You will be taking a chance on any bird you buy. 

I like hillfamily's idea about buying the young birds and at least testing them out for yourself to see if they are worthy for breeding. But then again you could breed your own from the cock and find out that way but that will take more time to do because you'll have to breed out the young birds yourself.


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## blongboy (Nov 10, 2009)

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> I say if you like the bird and it's worth the $55 to you then take it! That's what it really boils down to at least for me. If you can get performance results even better! You will be taking a chance on any bird you buy.
> 
> I like hillfamily's idea about buying the young birds and at least testing them out for yourself to see if they are worthy for breeding. But then again you could breed your own from the cock and find out that way but that will take more time to do because you'll have to breed out the young birds yourself.


yea i think so too


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

No one can give you thoughts on that bird, just their past experiences with Dennis Kuhn, and even then your results may not be the same. It is pointless to make any addition now though isn't it? Breeding season is almost over. Maybe you'll get nice young birds to stock? My mentor told me something that I think is pretty smart, "If you want to buy a breeder buy him in the winter/early spring" what that means, look on ipigeon now and remember how it was in the fall? Everyone gets rid of their culls then but if they kept it through winter and fed it, maybe its a bird that person thinks is good? That goes for the hobby guys that like to race more then they do sell I'd say. Kuhn is selling all year round so its hard to tell with that. Maybe you can find something closer, cheaper? Or even someone gift you a nice bird?


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## redleg23 (May 6, 2009)

I would contact Dennis, first. Ask him who bred the bird, Why he feels it is found. quality? Also, you have no clue if this bird was bred for sprint or long distance. I checked the band letters and it is 
MID-MINNESOTA RPC 
Club Code : MM 
Club Secretary : SHEILA ROTH 
City : EAGLE BEND 
State : MN 
Phone No. : 218-738-3033 
Email Address : 
Dennis, also resides in Min. I believe, so he prob knows the breeder. I also think Dennis is an honest fair guy, but as stated prior, be certain it is what you are looking for. You are looking at over $100 with shipping. Personally, if I was going to purchase one bird, I'd consider a pair, like Becky said. Maybe ask Dennis what he feels would be a good mate for the cock. Good luck


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## blongboy (Nov 10, 2009)

thanks for answer guys 

He told me this ...
is long distance based (Roger Vereeke bloodlines)


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

I've met Dennis a few times and got supplies from him .We fly in the same federation different clubs. Some of the bands are from Wisconsin and Minnesota clubs, We might have six clubs on the same truck when raceing , thats why the different bands. He buys birds that he want from different people to better his stock. If you have time look up Heartland racing Federation and you can read the archives to see his race record. I flew against him and his club on friday. the only difference is he's in MN at90 miles and I'm in WI at 189 miles. He's a real pigeon flyer not just a sales man.


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## blongboy (Nov 10, 2009)

ERIC K said:


> I've met Dennis a few times and got supplies from him .We fly in the same federation different clubs. Some of the bands are from Wisconsin and Minnesota clubs, We might have six clubs on the same truck when raceing , thats why the different bands. He buys birds that he want from different people to better his stock. If you have time look up Heartland racing Federation and you can read the archives to see his race record. I flew against him and his club on friday. the only difference is he's in MN at90 miles and I'm in WI at 189 miles. He's a real pigeon flyer not just a sales man.


yea i know he's a pigeon flyer, also a nice person too ..


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

I think what it comes down to is not the birds that you bring into your breeding system, but the birds you move out. If you pay $55 for this guy, which is a good deal of money from some people, and the bird does not produce. Lets say it also has a good pedigree. Are you willing to move it out of your breeding system? If you are trying birds on any other method besides race and breeding results, you must be willing to send the bird down the road if it does not work out. I know a guy with 300 birds. I sent him about 4 to fly one year. One won a race as a YB and an Old bird for him. Its nest mate flew well and bred him a winner the next year when bred to another good bird he received from out of state. These three in my opinion were his best three birds and possibly the best three in his loft. Better than his imports, his high dollar and big time pedigree birds. Birds that flew well as young and bred winners. I asked if he still had the bird that bred his winner. He thinks he lost it and could not find it the other day. The imports are still there and he can point them out to you. When you bring in better you better be willing to let go of your attachments. If I bring in a new breeder, he has one year, about 4-6 babies to test his abilities. Thats it.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Its hard to pass up free birds or good deals, but you need to be very cautious of what you are getting. You can soon have 100 mediocre birds that look pretty. I have one of the best looking youngsters in the nest right now. One of the coolest looking birds I have ever seen. Off good stock. Do I stock him on looks alone? If I do I will be shooting myself in the foot. Very tempting. Same as the bird that looks good on the web page. I breed 80 or so birds a year. That is about 120 birds that are in my loft any given year. About 40 make it to the fall and sit on eggs. The rest are in the air or in another loft. Many are good birds and proven breeders or racers. Not all are great. Last years YB team consisted of 36 birds. I am stocking 1 and bringing in 2 more. 3/36. 16 were top 10% birds and a few of those had top 10 finishes against 350-400 birds. You have to be willing to let those 13 go.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

So would I pay $55 for that bird. No, not when I have 13 proven birds off of proven stock that are not good enough for the breeding loft. To give you an idea. This year I burrowed two birds because I was short cock birds. One is a son of Motown Missile AU hall of fame for Red Rose and one off Ganus imports off Belgium National Winners. All there babies will be flying. Hard not to stock them, but they could be duds. You only know unless you fly the babies. Guys spend 3k on a bird, stock the babies and soon have a whole loft of un-proven pedigrees. If you buy him, race every youngster. If they win stock them and keep him.


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## Xueoo (Nov 20, 2009)

Hillfamily, you can do what you do because you've been breeding for a while and have a lot to choose from. Over time, you would already have the "best" of what your birds can produce. Mathematics dictate how many you can retain every year. If you have 100 birds in the loft at any given time, it's only logical to not hold over 20 every year for breeding. You can choose the best 1-2-3 to retain and let go the rest. 

Somebody who does not yet have a foundation needs to obtain as many as they can and breed and test those before they can go the route you are in now. I don't think it's smart to bring in random birds from all over the place to put together and hope you produce good flyers. But, you need to start somewhere, and I think buying a $55 bird is a cheap way to go.


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## blongboy (Nov 10, 2009)

well like they say 
2 culls can still make good birds ....and 2 good birds can still make culls 

i'll try and let ya know


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## dennis kuhn (Dec 29, 2007)

Just to clarify to all who posted on this thread or anyone else for that matter. On my sale priced $60 or less pages, right at the top it states...
*All birds listed on these sale priced pages are $60 or less with the idea that anyone can afford decent quality stock at reasonable prices and don't come pedigreed unless noted otherwise. Whether you race competitively; or are a backyard pigeon fancier hobbyist, I want to make decent birds available to others in hopes that they'll get as much enjoyment from the birds as I have through the years.* These birds I have listed are what I consider a *"working person's price" * I have been involved in racing pigeons for just over 25 years now, and one of the first to commit to be a lifetime member of the AU almost 10 years ago now. In that time I have seen the evolution of the electronic clocks, astranomical prices for pigeons running into the multiple thousands of dollars (in my opinion), and much of the back yard hobbiest/local sportsmanship deteriorate to where if you have too much success, it will come back to you in the form of pure jealousy by way of back stabbing or downgrading an individuals reputation to where it is just pain ridiculous.
My site is set up to make it possible for individuals who don't have hundreds or thousands to spend be able to purchase birds, and enjoy a hobby that has been so dear to me over the years. I am one of the few sites outside of auction sites where you can see a bird pictured before purchasing it with a brief description and set price along with the bird's complete band number listed. Birds range in price on my site from $20-$200 for the most part and my race results can be viewed on the heartland federation website as well as http://www.gsrracingpigeons.com site which is the former club I flew with from 03' to 09'. Not all birds I sell produce winners, but I do guarantee good health which is about all one can do. I have a very good repeat customer base, so I must be doing something right. I also offer a testimonial page on my site where you can see many indiviuals who have had success with my birds and only list either race or money winners with the indiviual's name/state they are from. I am sure there are many more that don't contact me on their success and I choose not to list just top diploma winners. The reason for the different bands on the sale priced pages of $60 or less, is that they do come from different racing lofts (mostly in Minnesota), and are either part of loft reductions which by the way I don't want confused with culls as there have been some diploma winners even race winners sold on these pages in the past, as well as individuals just plain getting out of pigeons all together due to age/health or other personal reasons. I have nothing to hide and am upfront with complete band numbers, pictures, and everything I know about the birds in a description that was told to me at time I received the bird. If you want a bird off of my own families, it will have my personalized band on it which is whiteracers.com and more than likely cost more than $25 but still not even close to the thousands that some ask for. On an ending note, my families of birds are based not only on color but performance. When I originally started back into racing pigeons again in 93', I bought the best I could afford at the time which wasn't a lot of money. I bred the best to the best, and after a few years was able to finally have success at the level I had hoped for. The nice thing about racing is you can't just buy your way to the top, and I tell indiviuals that they need to do their part of training/feeding/medicating ect. with the birds in order to have any success at all. I chose to specialize in the non-standard colors of racing pigeons to race, as I have always enjoyed the different colors and genetic aspect. I also wanted to take on the challenge, and the other element of difficulty it brought to me in the racing pigeon sport. For those who have any questions, and took the time to read this whole post, feel free to call or email me anytime.

Dennis Kuhn (952)873-5664
http://www.pigeonsuppliesplus.com

http://www.whiteracingpigeons.com


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## blongboy (Nov 10, 2009)

dennis kuhn said:


> Dennis Kuhn (952)873-5664
> http://www.pigeonsuppliesplus.com
> 
> http://www.whiteracingpigeons.com



hey Dennis do you have any picture of your loft ..i would love to see your set up if you don't mind sharing


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## dennis kuhn (Dec 29, 2007)

Here is a picture of one of my lofts. It was originally Bob Capitola's loft (Former President of the AU), and I bought it from him when he got out of birds.

Dennis Kuhn (952)873-5664
http://www.pigeonsuppliesplus.com

http://www.whiteracingpigeons.com


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## blongboy (Nov 10, 2009)

dennis kuhn said:


> Here is a picture of one of my lofts. It was originally Bob Capitola's loft (Former President of the AU), and I bought it from him when he got out of birds.
> 
> Dennis Kuhn (952)873-5664
> http://www.pigeonsuppliesplus.com
> ...


thats a very nice looking loft you got their ...i might copy it one day 
how many bird can it hold?


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Nice loft--its design is of the famous L-shape loft probably inspired by HVR(Huyskien-VanRiel).


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

RodSD said:


> Nice loft--its design is of the famous L-shape loft probably inspired by HVR(Huyskien-VanRiel).


Nice loft but IDK about HVR's loft but I do know the few HVR's I have do really good for me. I was lucky to get friendly with one of the guys who still has the old HVR's that he's had since atleast the 70's. And he's given me a few birds over the years and I've always done good with them. This year he's giving me 4 of them for the IF Convention so with his birds and the birds I've gotten from a few other ppl including a few ppl on PT I'm looking foward to that race. Did I mention the guy I got my HVR's from won the IF Champion Loft last year in YB's. He flys in my club and even thought he took the IF Champion Loft I won average speed and champion bird he had the 2nd champion bird.


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

I did see that one Yellow for sale on Dennis's website and I'm always looking to add some blood to my yellow family. I just don't know if that one would fit with mine mine are pretty much Janssen and the one on his site is a Trenton and it's more of a darker yellow then I like. I started with one yellow hen and I built a family around here that have won races I just haven't had a yellow actually win but I've had a decent amount of their non yellow kids win. Including money race winners. It's just hard to figure out what to add to them to make them better. It's hard to find any yellows I feel will improve what I already have. I'm gonna have to cross some of them top birds from my other families and see what happens.


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## blongboy (Nov 10, 2009)

i just got him in today ..he is a heck of a bird ...PERFECTION in the way he looks 
now he looks too good for my hens..


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## rpalmer (Mar 10, 2011)

blongboy said:


> i just got him in today ..he is a heck of a bird ...PERFECTION in the way he looks
> now he looks too good for my hens..


Excellent. I was wondering if you went ahead and got him. Thanks for the update.


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

blongboy said:


> i just got him in today ..he is a heck of a bird ...PERFECTION in the way he looks
> now he looks too good for my hens..


Nice, keep us updated on how he does.


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

Dennis Kuhn you seem like a decent upstanding guy, and I know that I've always thought that if I can't find anything local to add to my loft that I'd try you out first, your prices seem quite fair.


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## blongboy (Nov 10, 2009)

Pictures


























he's almost a large size bird


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## rpalmer (Mar 10, 2011)

Wow.. he looks like Da man. I'm sure he will be very happy with you and his new hens.


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## vangimage (Aug 15, 2010)

dennis kuhn said:


> Here is a picture of one of my lofts. It was originally Bob Capitola's loft (Former President of the AU), and I bought it from him when he got out of birds.
> 
> Dennis Kuhn (952)873-5664
> http://www.pigeonsuppliesplus.com
> ...


That is a lot of loft space, what is the depth? Nice.


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## pidgey boy (Dec 23, 2010)

very nice and pretty


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## dennis kuhn (Dec 29, 2007)

vangimage said:


> That is a lot of loft space, what is the depth? Nice.[/QUO
> 
> There are three 20' X 8' sections, one 12' X 8' section which is used as a feed room/crate storage area. The end piece on the far left is a holding pen with the wire front which is 8' X 8'.
> 
> ...


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## lgfout (Feb 8, 2011)

First To Hatch said:


> Dennis Kuhn you seem like a decent upstanding guy, and I know that I've always thought that if I can't find anything local to add to my loft that I'd try you out first, your prices seem quite fair.


yep ...they don't come any better...


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

Just wanted to say if my breeder section was done I'd buy that black white flight cock on the sale priced cocks page his band number is AU 99 VIK 4578 if he is 12 years old and still alive he must be considered a good bird, I'd buy him for 25 bucks.


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