# Why do 'crows' attack Pigeons?



## pdpbison

Hi All...

I have been wondering about this...

I have the one little youngster now who was found being attacked by what the fellow said were 'Crows'...other references to 'Crow Attacks' occur here in our threads...

What is actually meant here, do you think, by it being said that the attackers are 'Crows'? Far as I have seen, most people will refer to any sort of 'black' Bird as being a 'Crow'...do we mean Black Birds? Starlings? Grackles? Ravens? Or...? Literally 'Crows'? - I am confused...

And, do they attack only Pigeon Babys? Or also adult Pigeons? Or is there something about the coloring of their victims ( such as if the victim is almost all 'Black' like my little Baby is?) if not their size, which somehow can be associated with the election of the victim for occasions of 'attack'?

What can we figure out about this?

Thanks...

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Blksheep

*crow attacks*

Hi Phil,
The groups that I have personally witnessed were indeed crows. Ravens are found in Western Washington, but as a rule are found in the foothills and mountains of the Cascade and Olympic ranges. 
I wish I could remember the reference material, but I remember reading that studies were done within a few murders as far as the eating of meat by crows, and freshness, etc.. The reasoning for the seemingly strange parameters was to discover whether or not crows would indeed kill, and if it were limited to just a few individuals or groups, or if it were more common than believed. The findings were that while crows will act in their role as carrion "cleanup" as it were, they will also kill to eat...including tactical attacks by several individuals working as a team to bring down or capture prey.
I have personally seen this quite often... as stated before with pigeons and nests (strictly taking squabs... I haven't seen or heard of a crow taking an adult or even an older chick) and with other young birds. I have seen crows attack and kill an injured meadowlark in the Wichita area, as well as seeing a crow flying with a magpie in its beak (quite a feat, with the sizes involved) and the magpie was severely injured, yet obviously still alive. I think I would class them as just opportunistic... hunger, timing, etc. all playing a role... and this study found similar results. The disturbing part of the study was that they found that on more than a few occasions the crows did not consume their victim... they simply moved on to find another one. Wanton killing... not many species share THAT particular trait.
With all this being said, I would not hesitate in the least to care for an injured crow or deserted chick. I find them to be fascinating birds, and their intelligence cannot be argued. I think part of the problem is that you are dealing with an all-black bird that has been forever linked to witchcraft and "demonology", and let's face it... when you are stared down with those beady little black eyes, it's like you can see the thoughts racing along behind them... and the inherent intelligence driving them. It's spooky sometimes how they seem almost precognitive... bend down to pick up something around a crow while it is watching you and you have it's undivided attention. Maybe they live in glass houses?  
All in all they fill their nitch in nature. It's disturbing to watch them harass a nesting bird into finally leaving (in fear for their life I would assume) the nest and then grabbing the eggs or undefended chicks. Nature is extremely cruel at times, as we all know too well. Nature has granted the pigeon the ability to overcome the many predators with the ability to breed "like rabbits" (?? I guess it's good that I crack MYSELF up. I can feel Laura rolling her eyes when she hits this little gem.. lol ).
Great discussion... it's one of the reasons I enjoy this board for other than the obvious reason of looking for tips and hints about raising our feral chicks for release back into the wild.

Mike
The other half of the team in Seattle


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## John_D

Think it's hard to come up with a definitive answer, Phil.

I know that many fanciers, both here and in the US, reckon that having Crows near a loft is good for deterrng hawks. That would imply that Crows are not perceived as a threat.

My apartment is within the territory of a pair of Crows, and the ferals will share rooftop space with the Crows when they ae just hanging out with no problem. The sworn enemies of the local Crows are the gulls who nest on these roofs.

In the UK, of the Crow 'family' we have the Raven, the Crow itself, the Rook (similar size and general appearance), Magpie, Jackdaw (smaller than a Crow) and one type of Jay. In N Scotland therte is a 'Hooded Crow' which is just a bi-colored variation on the standare all-black Crow.

Pretty much any Corvid will take eggs and nestlings, particularly in their breeding season, on an opportunist basis. Magpies are the most notorious here and mostly target songbbirds, but are not the only culprits.

It would be very uncommon for a Crow to kill an adult or fully fledged pigeon, unless it was sick and helpless, but they *would* take a baby pigeon. In one of the few places in Scotland where there are wild Rock Doves, only one attack by a 'Hooded crow' on a grown pigeon has been recorded in the past five years.

I guess that in the US, if someone is not familiar with your various possible 'black birds', they could well assume that a Grackle was a Crow.

John


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## upcd

*Attack*

I had a super sized pigeon. I think he was a King cross. His name was eagle. He had grizzle marking with a baldhead like an eagle. He was on his first flight out side the loft when a group of crows thought dinner was being served. Little did they know this young king cross had racing homer. Talk about the speed. He made them eat his dust. I guess his size made him look worth while or threating to them.


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## Pigeonpal2002

Hi Everyone, 

Great topic (I think) because I enjoy watching the interactions and cohabitational aspects between species. 

Here in North America, there are other "blackbirds" as such that some might refer to as crows. Grackles and one species of them called the boat tailed grackle is quite large, magpie sized with a similarly long tail as well. Most of the other species of grackles are much smaller-jay sized birds. Then there are the starlings, and the actual "blackbirds" themselves, such as the red wing, tri-coloured, brewers blackbirds etc. 

The only "black birds" to raid nests eating eggs or young of other birds are the crows and the grackles. A common grackle, starling or blackbird wouldn't be nearly capable of killing an adult pigeon whether injured or not. Grackles would seize on an opportunity though to eat eggs or very small nestlings from a pigeons nest however. Crows on the other hand as stated by BLKSHEEP will indeed prey on the weak and infirm of any species that they can overpower alone or in a group. They are capable of eating the larger squabs in the nest and overpowering all by the most fit of pigeons if they can catch them.

So it's likely that whenever you hear of a "Blackbird" or crow that has attacked or was attacking a pigeon either a sick adult or a young one, it is almost a sure bet that it WAS indeed a Crow.

Funny story UPCD about "EAGLE" ...LOL

And John, I would like to hear more about the gulls and crows in the other bird forum if and when you have time


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## feralpigeon

John_D said:


> My apartment is within the territory of a pair of Crows, and the ferals will share rooftop space with the Crows when they ae just hanging out with no problem. The sworn enemies of the local Crows are the gulls who nest on these roofs.
> 
> John


Not that this would happen all the time, but I was in the tenderloin in SF and 
looked up to a rooftop to see a hawk that was the best part of two feet in size
sitting on one corner of a rooftop while a row of pigeons took up the other half of the rooftop. They all sat up there for the best part of twenty minutes without moving before the pigeons decided to move. I'm pretty sure that hawk
was part of the raptor program @ Fort Mason.

fp


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## Victor

*Interesting thread*

This is indeed a very interesting and informative topic. I have recently been wondering about the "black birds" that hang out in my wooded back yard. One of these days when I have a "free "moment: I need to read up on Nebraska birds.The closest feral pigeons hang out about 5 houses away one once in a while I will see one flying overhead. The big black birds often eat right along side our backyard squirrels and smaller wild birds as well.When Tooter is out and about they will look at him but won't bother him.They seem to take a distance from him as a matter of fact unlike the sparrows.I may have to monitor his outdoor activity A bit closer maybe? Could their presence cause the pigeon flock a block away to not come down to this part of the neighborhood? They are beautiful birds especially the blue-purple incandesent colors around their heads. I still wish they were *pigeons*!


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## Garye

I don't like crows. I'll feed the pigeons and then a crow will come along and chase them away so HE can eat. Well I chase him away until they're finished. Then he can have what's left. The pigeons back off when a crow comes around to eat. They're afraid of it. I just don't like crows. Maybe they can protect pigeons but I don't trust them.


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## feralpigeon

Hi Garye,

I too, am guilty of chasing off the crows when defending my pijies who are
chowing down. But the other day, I came accross a rather awesome sight of 
one in the middle of the road trying to extract the contents of a pancaked 
baggy w/some kind of carbo desert type treat inside. It was awesome because
of how he moved, his size, how unafraid he was that he was in the middle of 
a 4-way stop w/humans in vehicles watching and he didn't care. I went thru 
the intersection to the other side, pulled over and got "his" baggie and emptied
the contents on the sidewalk, then crossed the street to the other side and 
waited to see him go after it. Instead, he flew to a spot on the telephone wire
directly accross from me in my car, and sat there vocalizing. He never did go 
get what had been made available to him. Maybe it was just too "easy" for him.

I used to love to go to the "seamstresses" house as a kid w/my mom. Not because I was interested in sewing, instead, it was her son who had two 
pet crows he called M&N. He would take me out to the back of their house 
where he kept the birds and show me all these things that he had trained 
them to do. He had built two tall perches at the edge of a hillside and could 
get them to do all kinds of things with hand signals and whistles. 

The upshot of it is, even if they don't make you feel warm and tingly inside,
you've gotta respect them as an awesome force in nature.


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## Crow

I love both crows and pigeons. They have different temperaments, but I've rescued and rehabbed individuals of both species, and I would never hurt, harass, or deny treats, water, and a friendly greeting to either group. 

I live near Broadway in Seattle, and around here the urban crows and pigeons coexist well. I don't see crows attacking or harassing grown pigeons, though since they are omnivores/carnivores I'm sure they'd eat a vulnerable baby pigeon or a severely injured adult, and they'll probably eat exposed eggs. Mostly I see them predator-mobbing the more aggressive birds, including gulls and hawks.


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## Jiggs

I do not know much about crows but I do know they are very clever. I have had the oportunity to watch 2 "witbors kraaie" (white chested crows??) watch a snake slowly cross a road and BAM it got hit by a car and they swooped down to have a meal.

I know they were watching the snake as I made a slight noise but they did not even turn there heads but were looking intently at the snake with cocked heads.


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## pdpbison

Thanks all of you!

I appreciate your mentions on this.

Here in Las Vegas, I am not aware of seeing any Crows.

The non starling 'Black' Birds I sometimes have seen, are the size of a large chicken and could certainly carry off a young Pigeon if they wanted to do so.

These one sees outside of Town, usually...and they are very vocal and palpably sentient Creatures.

I sort of thought these were called Crows, but I do not know.

They are interesting Birds, and their Beaks are large and powerful.

The Crows I see in looking at websites about them are appearently smallish Birds who are not as large as Pigeons, yes?

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Jiggs

As said I do not know birds as well as most users here. But I know a crow is twice the size of a pigeon and some varieties are 3 times the size of a pigeon

Great pic of a bald eagle with a crow on the tree


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## Pigeonpal2002

pdpbison said:


> The non starling 'Black' Birds I sometimes have seen, are the size of a large chicken and could certainly carry off a young Pigeon if they wanted to do so.
> 
> These one sees outside of Town, usually...and they are very vocal and palpably sentient Creatures.
> 
> I sort of thought these were called Crows, but I do not know.
> 
> They are interesting Birds, and their Beaks are large and powerful.
> 
> The Crows I see in looking at websites about them are appearently smallish Birds who are not as large as Pigeons, yes?
> 
> Phil
> Las Vegas



Hi Phil,

Sounds like you're seeing the crow's big cousin, the raven Ravens are much much larger than a crow, about 25-27 inches long and nearly a 5 foot wingspan. Crows are about 17-20 inches long with a 3 foot wingspan. So, crows are definitely bigger than your average pigeon but ravens dwarf both Ravens don't really caw like a crow, have a longer, wedge shaped tail and have shaggy feathers underneath the beak by the throat. The beak is much larger and "heavier" looking in proportion to the body than a crows as well. Just some things to consider when trying to distinguish them in the field


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## Cooee

*Magpie Attack*

I'm sorry that this is my first posting on the site as it's a bit gruesome but I've just seen a quite distressing incident and wanted some advice as to what to do next time it might happen (although I really hope it doesn't).

I have been aware of our back garden area having a variety of song thrushes, blackbirds, starlings and magpies seemingly living in harmony for years here but today I witnessed such an odd event...

Whilst pottering about I was alerted to very distressed warning calls and screams suddenly, and looked across to see around 7 starlings and a blackbird surrounding a magpie which I then saw had a half grown blackbird under its talons whilst it pecked it viciously. I've never seen anything like this before and did the only thing I could think of which was to run towards it and shoo it away. 

This I did and then the youngster shuffled to safety under some bushes. The magpie had flown off and the other birds were all continuing a cacophony of warning calls and so once I had been around for 3/4 minutes and was being warned off by what must have been the blackbird father I thought it might be best to leave the garden and allow them to take care of the baby, which looked big enough to be able to make short flights.

I really wish I hadn't now as I returned about 15 minutes later and was at first relieved as there were no more distress calls and so thought it must now be safe...but instead found poor birdie dead with what were pretty horrific wounds in an open space, meaning it must have been attacked again when it moved into the open.

I only left the first time as I thought I was scaring both the baby and parent and have heard about birds deserting their young but now I think I made the wrong decision :-( what should I do if this happens again?

I was quite amazed by the fact that the starlings and blackbird were trying to see the magpie off...I didn't realise that birds of different breeds would help each other in this kind of situation...


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## conditionfreak

Crows will kill and eat pigeons. Even adult pigeons. It is on several videos. I posted a link here to a couple of those videos and I got hammered for doing so. Because it was deemd too disgusting to post the link here. So I will not again.

But crows, even a single crow, will kill and eat a pigeon. Young or adult. Rarely, but it happens.

You have to understand that wild things are not "civilized" like us (that is actually supposed to be a joke but most here will not get it), and wild things find food wherever and whenever they can. Even if they usually or almost always exist on plant food, they will occasionally eat meat if it comes there way.

I have even observed pigeons eating insects and worms. But admittedly they rarely do. I also "believe" that pigeons "may" break and eat other pigeons eggs. But I can not prove this point as I only "suspect" it right now. The evidence is anecdotal. But I think that if you leave some pigeons inside a loft without feeding them for a very long time, they will kill and eat weak pigeons, baby pigeons and eggs.

Crows can be seen on the roadway, eating road kill often. Why would they not take advantage of a weak pigeon, if the crow was hungry?

It is a tough, cruel world out there. For sure.


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## RodSD

Magpie is probably related to the crow/raven family so they resemble the same behavior. They are predators.

Crows do attack my young birds, but only on certain occasions. If they are nesting, they will be more aggressive. This is normal.

Crows do eat young baby birds!


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## spirit wings

if a crow kills and eats an adult pigeon or any bird of that size..usually it is because the pigeon is down and they know it.. and then they will just pick on him and kill the weakest.. they would never beable to catch up to a healthy adult pigeon.. they are too fast.


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## pattersonk2002

*Crows*



conditionfreak said:


> Crows will kill and eat pigeons. Even adult pigeons. It is on several videos. I posted a link here to a couple of those videos and I got hammered for doing so. Because it was deemd too disgusting to post the link here. So I will not again.
> 
> But crows, even a single crow, will kill and eat a pigeon. Young or adult. Rarely, but it happens.
> 
> You have to understand that wild things are not "civilized" like us (that is actually supposed to be a joke but most here will not get it), and wild things find food wherever and whenever they can. Even if they usually or almost always exist on plant food, they will occasionally eat meat if it comes there way.
> 
> I have even observed pigeons eating insects and worms. But admittedly they rarely do. I also "believe" that pigeons "may" break and eat other pigeons eggs. But I can not prove this point as I only "suspect" it right now. The evidence is anecdotal. But I think that if you leave some pigeons inside a loft without feeding them for a very long time, they will kill and eat weak pigeons, baby pigeons and eggs.
> 
> Crows can be seen on the roadway, eating road kill often. Why would they not take advantage of a weak pigeon, if the crow was hungry?
> 
> It is a tough, cruel world out there. For sure.


 I have also witnessed crows doing great harm to a fully fledged and flying pigeon. It is something I do not like to talk about but with 3 breeding pairs of crows on the property I see all, some not so pretty. The crows are welcome because they do warn me of hawks in the area and even the foxes and there young that are now attacking my birds, mostly my chickens but I have cought them stalking my pigeons in the drive. >Kevin


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## spirit wings

I would be more worried about the fox..lol..


quote "It is true - crows are known as scavengers and opportunists. They will eat just about anything that doesn't eat them first. Crows are also exceptionally curious, observant, sociable, cooperative, resourceful, intelligent, and successful. And their undiscriminating taste often makes them a farmers best friend. "


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## boneyrajan.k

Its nature's way of eliminating the weak bird .......usually pigeons and crows are allies


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## jeff houghton

i welcome crows in my back yard and am glad of the fact they nest in the trees behind my loft, although you have to be careful with young in the nest as a friend of mine found out last year losing over 30 young in one day after leaving his loft unattended for an hour or so, the crows just helped themselves taking anything that couldnt fly.


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## sky tx

Why do Crows attact Pigeons???
Same answer as
Why do Dogs chase Cats?


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## PomboLover

My baby window dweller sweetie named Puppy that had just fledged maybe two weeks prior was attacked by a crow mid air. He was taking off for the evening to nest. The crow swooped at him and grabbed him with his talons. He was murdered mid air. A member of the flock did in fact hit the crow in defense. It was horrible. I screamed "let that bird go" but the crows mate hovered around overhead and the took off. My baby didn't return to the windowsill again. I thought it was god being a f I g murderer pervert at me and taking my pet. I'm still very angry and depressed. It makes me sick to hear them around me, now. They sound like black witch predators. I hate crows.


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