# Flying for hours?



## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

I have read here so many times about homer flyers having their birds fly high and for long durations. My birds only fly tree top high and never for more than five minutes, before they return to the loft. It doesn't matter if they are well fed or kept hungry. It is the same. They have never gone really high and have only left my sight a few times back last year when they were young birds. They are yearlings now and never leave my sight.

What am I doing wrong? Am I doing anything wrong? They have homed from long distances many times.


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## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

I don't think there's nothing wrong with them. When I had homers, "Black Bird" flew for 2 minutes and trapped back into the loft while the other barely left the height above the roof of my house. Black Bird was a champion bird with great results and he didn't loft fly much either.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Do you think they sense Hawks and feel safer inside?


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

Naw. When they are frightful I can tell. They don't wanna come out of the loft. The allure of the sky is powerful though, and eventually one will venture out, then they all come out. I am right there scanning the sky and trees. I assume that they see something before I ever go out to them and it is on their minds.

Heck, if I could fly, no darn bird of prey would keep me from doing my thing. It's like going to a hip hop (rap) concert. You know there might be trouble but you go anyway.

Yep, I like rap, believe it or not. But that's another story, for another day.


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## bloodlines_365 (Jan 15, 2008)

hers the strick.... if the birds are in good condition......fly separate the cocks and hens specially on yearlings they tend to protect their box so hard that they hardly go out and fly..... if it doesnt work road train them.....


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

Good suggestion, but they don't have boxes. Just perches. Same thing mostly though. I am not going to breed these yearlings, so they will not have boxes.


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## TipplerBeni (Sep 30, 2007)

Im no pro but I have been around an seen homers fly for years. WHen they are young they will fly route for a couple hours when they are young. when they get into the year old stage homers dont want to fly anymore. They need to be tossed. I have never seen someone with old homers loft fly for a longtime. 5 minutes is kind of short maybe you need to use a flag or something to keep them up flying.


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## bloodlines_365 (Jan 15, 2008)

same thing on mine before..... specially the males they tend to flirt alot and fly low .......... but now i dont have any yearlings i decided not to fly old birds just focused on youngbirds racing.....


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

They fly a little bit higher than tree tops if loft flying. I noticed that when they start breeding, they don't want to fly anymore. It doesn't matter if I release cocks or hens individually. Less than year olds are the ones that will fly hours (my max is 2 hours). Most of the time they rather fly close to 1 hour or less. It gets tiring watching them because your neck hurts. I now only wants my birds to fly only 30 minutes so start calling them early.

Did your birds when young been doing the same thing? If so, maybe they are fat. One of my fat bird can't fly for more than 10-15 minutes. He lands on trees because he gets too tired easily. If they are molting, they don't want to fly as well. If they are sick, it is the same. If they are too hungry, the same.

Also I noticed that when one bird lands, the rest land. Don't fly that bird with your other birds. It will bring down the rest which is irritating. 

Some birds are obsessed with flying as well. One of George's birds I got was like that. For the first 3 or 4 days he (or she) wont stop flying. The rest of my birds already landed, but decided to fly on his (or her) own. I just let him/her be. So we are talking about quality birds here. It shows that George Simon's birds are better quality than mine.

So figure it out whether it is health related, bad habit, and/or quality. Oh, yeah, a mix breed may not show homer endurance, too.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I have noticed within my flock some come out of the door and take off and fly fly fly, others just look at the roof and go oh, ok that looks good, they all do usually end up flying for awhile at some point when something startles them, I get great flying when there is a hawk, they stay tight and I can hardly see them in the sky, they don't go running back in the loft. Im not as worried about the loft flying as people who race, but do want them to get in shape and if I had to I would flag them for about an hour a few times a week. and of course you will have training tosses to keep them in shape as well.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

I could count on one hand the number of times ANY of my birds, old ones OR young ones has "routed" or "tripped" in the 7 years that I've been here. And probably half of those hand full of times was because they were being chased by a hawk. 
I think that it all has to do with the area that I live in. I didn't have a problem getting my birds to fly up up and away for hours when I lived up in MI. We were on an old farm that had been divided into 4 or 8 acre parcels and you could literally see for miles. My birds were known to be gone for hours. Now what they were doing while they were gone is and always will be unknown. They might have been foraging in a field 5 miles away for all I know. All I know is that they were gone. 
One of our training spots is about 800 yards as the crow flies. About a mile when you drive it. I dare say that my birds go any further than that in any direction when they're loft flying. You can literally stand in my back yard and see them pass overhead every few minutes. Sometimes they'll fly 15 minutes, sometimes 30 and I have had them fly for an hour, but still never leave the area. A hawk did keep them up one year for two hours, but they still didn't venture far from home. 
The guys in my club say they don't how in the world I can even get birds to come home. 
Now, I flag my OB's sometimes. The hens do pretty good. They'll fly for a bit, but the cocks? Forget it. They think the flag is a game. They'll pass right over my husbands head when he's got the flag....almost like they're daring him to hit them and if he tried he probably could. 
So, in order to get flying time, I have to put them on the road. That's another reason I went to open loft. They may not fly for hours, but they do fly quite a bit during the course of the day and IF a hawk happens by, they'll fly even more. 
As long as I can do what I'm doing, send all the birds on that first race and get them home, than I'm happy. I usually don't do so good on the first couple of races. I think it takes those first two weeks to get my birds in good condition. I paid to send them, so I just let the trailer train my birds and then they're ready for the other 6 weeks.


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## Pegasus (Feb 6, 2007)

*Aha!!!*

Now, I know that you are flagging your birds to fly eh......I thought I'm the only one who is doing that here...

Okay here's my 2¢...

Sometimes I lock my birds in for almost a week then let them fly...They will fly more than ½ an hour thats for sure...I noticed that when I locked them in for awhile, once they take on the sky, it will be atleast a thousand feet above my roof, they will stay on-course for good 3-5 minutes on that altitude but after that I won't see them above me nor from a few blocks away...I can see them (with binoculars) about ¾ of a mile from any directions, just can't circle around following them while looking in the binoculars, I'm getting dizzy myself...After feeding time or even before I feed them they will fly more than ½ an hour...Now don't get me wrong, I was told and I also noticed, that once they know the area they will fly low, approximately less than 20' high above the roof...It doesn't matter if they are coming from a race or just ranging around the loft, always remember they fly low because they know the area or they are around their home...Now to flag them doesn't mean they will keep on flying, I know this because I only make them land away from my roof and they all land on another roof...There will be time that some pigeons are smart enough not to response to the flag because they are tired and some land because they are use to the flagging method...My solution about the flagging, change the color of the flag or use black garbage bag tied at the end of the pole...

If I count how many times my birds fly/routed even 2 blocks around the loft...I think they are flying about 50 miles for less than an hour...

I also noticed that once you let the OB out before the YB the YB will fly with the OB and take them far or higher...Yes I agree that hen fly more than cocks...Cocks like to be closer to the loft and get inside or call their mate and flirt in the nestboxes...Once the pair land, forget it everybody lands with them...Unless I close the trap-door so they all stay outside until I let them in...They will get spook by anything, e.g. shopping bags flying high in the air, sometimes dark-colored balloons, loud noise of trucks/air-horns, of course the BOP's...Those are the things that make my birds fly...Oh, I forgot tennis balls being thrown by ME ...


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## james fillbrook (Jan 2, 2009)

mine do not go far and thanks this is my 200th post i am going to be a Senior Bird


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## whitesnmore (Sep 9, 2004)

Whenever I could not get my birds to route it was due to either overweight birds or they had a respiratory problem. I have OB's that have been let out 3 times in the last 7 days and they are already gone for an hour at a time. Typically my birds will fly from 1-2 hours on their own with no pressure from me or a bird of prey. Keep them lean and healthy 
Ken


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

I agree with Ken on this one. I used to flag, throw tennis balls, slippers, trash can cover, cooking pan, 2x4 or anything I can throw on the air to scare them up and they ended up either going to somebody else's roof or usually back to my loft roof and inside. And they started hating me. So I decided to figure out what is going on and I realized they were too fat! My breeders are even fatter because they have food all the time. They are also the most vulnerable to hawks.

Keep the birds lean--sometimes I overdo it and ended up with skinny birds which is not good, too. Usually I give them 1 ounce per bird, but now I modulate. If they fly longer, they get more food. If they don't fly, they get less than 1 ounce. If the temperature is cold, feed them more. If warm/hot, feed less. Now that they are on a lock down, they are fat again. But since 5 escaped 2 or 3 days ago, they flew for like 5-10 minutes.

My other observations: If a hawk swoops on them, but didn't catch any, I can be guaranteed to have 30 minutes of flying. If a hawk got one, I am guaranteed that I will get 1-2 hours of flight time. Basically the pigeon won't go down because the hawk is waiting for them on the tree or the neighbor's roof. I never had pigeons loft fly for more than 2 hours. When that happened usually they land on some place.


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

RodSD said:


> I agree with Ken on this one. I used to flag, throw tennis balls, slippers, trash can cover, cooking pan, 2x4 or anything I can throw on the air to scare them up and they ended up either going to somebody else's roof or usually back to my loft roof and inside. And they started hating me. So I decided to figure out what is going on and I realized they were too fat! My breeders are even fatter because they have food all the time. They are also the most vulnerable to hawks.
> 
> Keep the birds lean--sometimes I overdo it and ended up with skinny birds which is not good, too. Usually I give them 1 ounce per bird, but now I modulate. If they fly longer, they get more food. If they don't fly, they get less than 1 ounce. If the temperature is cold, feed them more. If warm/hot, feed less. Now that they are on a lock down, they are fat again. But since 5 escaped 2 or 3 days ago, they flew for like 5-10 minutes.
> 
> My other observations: If a hawk swoops on them, but didn't catch any, I can be guaranteed to have 30 minutes of flying. If a hawk got one, I am guaranteed that I will get 1-2 hours of flight time. Basically the pigeon won't go down because the hawk is waiting for them on the tree or the neighbor's roof. I never had pigeons loft fly for more than 2 hours. When that happened usually they land on some place.


I agree! Overweight birds will always want to land as soon as they take off. I have learned that if you put them on a 50% barley and 50% regular feed for two weeks. After that, gradually increase their loft flying time and soon they'll be up for an hour.


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

Yep, ken is right. The old hand flyer that gave me my start had his birds up, and the only reason i meet him is cause i saw them flying, knew they were homers, and it took me 1 1/2 hours of following them all over hell, till they came down and i found out where they were from and knocked on his door!
Condition is the number one reason they loft fly good, but sometimes cocks and hens separated works good. One team i had worked best with one or two hens, and the rest cocks.LOL! If both of a pair with a nest are flown together i think each member of the pair is asking WHO'S watching the store!!! So they both want to come down.
Even if they have no nest this can be a problem, because they are ALWAYS, looking to make one! Dave


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## Guest (Feb 12, 2009)

I always hear alot about the barley thing but how much is barley going for these days for a 50lb bag ???


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

I get my barley at $13 bucks for a 50 lb. bag.


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## Ed (Sep 18, 2008)

LUCKYT said:


> Yep, ken is right. The old hand flyer that gave me my start had his birds up, and the only reason i meet him is cause i saw them flying, knew they were homers, and it took me 1 1/2 hours of following them all over hell, till they came down and i found out where they were from and knocked on his door!
> Condition is the number one reason they loft fly good, but sometimes cocks and hens separated works good. One team i had worked best with one or two hens, and the rest cocks.LOL! If both of a pair with a nest are flown together i think each member of the pair is asking WHO'S watching the store!!! So they both want to come down.
> Even if they have no nest this can be a problem, because they are ALWAYS, looking to make one! Dave




ROFL!!! I actually lol'd in real life and all my co-workers are looking at me funny now


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## Grim (Jul 28, 2007)

My birds do the same thing. They actually scare me because sometimes they will fly below tree top level and I keep thinking a hawk will pop out of the tree any second. So far I haven't lost a single bird to hawks since last summer. I guess as they age they fly less but a fancier nearby has about 40 birds who will fly right over my house. Of course my birds for whatever reason will not fly near his flock. They seem to chase my birds and my birds avoid them. I have no idea where this guy lives but he must be close. I would like to know his secret because his birds fly high and all over. I would love to try barley but I can't find it.


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## Pegasus (Feb 6, 2007)

*Grim* do you think he might have some tipplers?, or flying flights perhaps?


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## Grim (Jul 28, 2007)

No they are homers. Mostly blue bars and checks. They are not dots in the sky but fly about 30' over the trees and look like they are just cruising around.


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

Ahh! that rare elusive creature! CONDITION! Dave


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

If pigeons are flying closer to your loft, they fly lower maybe to check you out for food signal. If they fly further than your loft, they usually go higher. If tossed far, then they fly really high.


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

After reading this thread, I took careful assesment of my birds and I believe that ya'll are correct. My birds are too fat.

It doesn't help that I have had them mostly on lock down due to the hawk problems, and I don't want to road train them because of that also. But the hawks are not around, for whatever reason, lately. So, I had them out for several hours today and yesterday. No hawks in sight. It was pleasant.

I am going to feed them less. They are on a diet starting now. Maybe I should join them. I ain't fly'in so high myself lately 

Thanks ya'll.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

LOL, conditionfreak! I am also on a lock down and my birds have gotten fat. I want them to lose weight, but it is cold here and raining, too. So I am on a dilemma.

As they lose weight their flight time increases slowly (assuming they are young birds). I am happy if they get like 5-10 minutes improvement. Then 5-10 minutes and more until you want them flying at the time you want. Never seen one fly more than 2 hours though loft flying.


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## [MN]eXist^_^ (Feb 13, 2009)

I think healthy birds would fly no matter the cirumstance but, yb's and ob's fly totally different. In the past my old birds wouldn't fly
Much then I flagged them and they know now I expect them to fly so they do. Kal-el had au birds last year, I went over 2 c, they flew for 2 hours!!!! It amazed me. I couldn't get my ybs to fly for
That long ever. I looked in his loft no droppings nice ventalation clean feed, I stole with my eyes. Well c what I can do this year! Also the barley subject is true, it gets into their blood and they fly forever. Try 100% barley for 2 days and u will c the difference in flight performance.


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## Pegasus (Feb 6, 2007)

*Just a suggestion...*

For my opinion, thoughts and method of feeding my birds...

If I have 22 birds in the loft, we all open and have some can food mostly every week...Read the bottom of the can food wrapper and see how many OUNCES is stated... If the can say 22oz then I will use that and put half of feed in it then take the feed and give it to my birds either AM or PM feeding...I understand if the birds are BREEDERS and they are lock-down most of their life in the loft, they do and they will get FAT but if they are flying, no matter how special or no matter how expensive is that feed, feeding them the right amount each day won't make them fat...I can say they get LEAN but not fat...


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

I totally agree with Pegasus. Dave


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

Lean is what you want I assume, not skinny! It's hard to judge with my birds becasue everytime I feed they look like they've been starving for days! But iI do get a good 20-30 min of flight time from them everytime they are released....sometimes over an hour!


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

Barley works wonders if you use it correctly and timely. Although it is coarse, pigeons will eat it if that's all there is to eat. And it does provide sufficient energy for them to exercise with. I usually control this by feeding the barely portion before feeding the regular feed. My birds try to be sneaky by not eating all the barley. They "think" that they can outsmart me by refusing to eat the barley and I will replace the barley with regular feed. BUT, I don't relent. If they don't finish the barley, then I just don't feed them the regular feed. This may sound harsh, but I feel strict control is the last power I have over them.


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

KAL-EL, i think you hit it right on the head. If you only let them eat what they want you are not handling them to what is best for their training. AND there race results, and HEALTH. 
My English, past flying buddy, that swore by barley, just left me a a phone message, when i call him back i will quiz on why he used barley. Dave.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

*Weights & Measures ??*

Just wanted to pop in here and remind everyone that not all substances/foods weigh the same .. ie .. If I fill an empty can that held perhaps green beans or stewed tomatoes with, for example, black oil sunflower seeds as opposed to filling it with a quality pigeon mix, there will be a very different nutritional end result for the birds. I think you need to be at least somewhat careful that you're not doing an "apples to oranges" thing by just filling up a can that held "x" amount of something other than what you are putting into it. Using my example, I would actually weigh on a scale 14 ounces of the pigeon mix I use, put it in the 14 ounce empty can and see where I'm at .. did it fill the can up, is the can half empty, or is the can too small?

Terry


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

Terry, good point, but most fliers go by volume not weight, and will not match one feed with another, ounce for ounce, good point tho. An ounce of breeder mix is WAY more rich than utility mix or barley, so you cannot do it in even swaps
That is were judgement comes in. Dave


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## Guest (Feb 14, 2009)

next time I hit the agway I gonna have to price me some barley and see where that takes me .. dont think I would make it their total rations but Im sure it would be an experiment to see what it adds to their performamce if any


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

I've read about barley in many different forums, yet I never tried it yet. It would be an interesting experiment to see the results.


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

My birds have been on the 50/50 barley-carb (yellow whole corn, red and white milo, and wheat) feed regimine for two months now. I exercise them whenever I can and they fly for about 30 minutes. Using the 50/50 feed mixture saves me a lot on feed that I would later use for the old bird racing season.


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## pigeon_racer (Jan 12, 2009)

*Barley*

I use a similar mix only it's 30% barley by volume. I've tried various mixes and most seem to work well if they don't go over 50% barley. The total amount of feed I give depends on the birds. I increase or lower the amount of feed until they reach the point that when I come into the loft for the next feeding, there are 5 or 6 grains of barley left. If its all gone I increase the feed, more than a few barley grains left I decrease the feed on a daily basis because of changes in nutritional needs that change with the changes in the weather in winter. This seems to work best, they don't get too skinny or too fat.

Ralph


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

As of right now, I'm only feeding the 50/50 mixture because I need to trim down my birds and it helps me save on feed later on. I reduce the percentage of barley down from 50% to 30% to 15% to 5% then to 0%. They don't fly as much so they can use the carbohydrates from the barley to burn as fuel for body heat.


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## windyflat (Jul 19, 2007)

I get 30-45 minutes out of my celibate cocks. I may flag a bit early in the season but they get the idea after a bit and as soon as the door is open they are gone. after 15 or so minutes they zip by and then their gone again for another 10-15 minutes. Generally tree top level unless a hawks around then they go high to keep an eye on him or her. If they won't fly more than 5 minutes either your not feeding enough or you have a health problem.
Tom


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## pigeon_racer (Jan 12, 2009)

*Barley*

Kal-el,

Sounds good to me if it works for you. I have also used milo in place of barley as it works about the same, except they can get fatter off of it than they can off of barley. Either one works, it's just portion control that makes the biggest difference. If your birds are flying at all then portion control will help keep them from getting too fat. I have agreed with a lot of what has been posted so far. If you are using portion control and you have tried flagging, tennis balls, etc. Then I also think its time to look at a possible problem with wet canker or something else that is interfering with their ability to breath. Either that or you may not have ever had control proper over your birds behavior. Besides being their friend and protector you must still be the parent or master which ever you choose.

Ralph


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