# Pigeon with hurt wing. Please help!



## mozart (Oct 12, 2006)

I was wondering if anyone in the Pigeon-talk community can help me and my little friend. I found he/she yesterday on the road. It is not old enough to fly yet , so it would be hard to say what it is capable of in the way of flying. Upon closer inspection it seems the injury is to the wrist, it is swollen and fevered near the joint. The wing is drooping; however, when he or she goes to stretch it can move the wing up and out as it stretches. I looked online last night for help and found instructions on how to apply a body wrap to keep the wing immobile, but woke up this morning to find that he or she was clever or determined enough to remove it. There is a wild bird care centre about 1 1/2 hours from me and I gave them a call today, but they said they couldn't say anyhting without seeing the wing first. It was to late in the day to drive up because they close at 4pm. By the way, he or she is eating and drinking well. My questions are 1) what does everyone think the possibility is that they will put a real effort in to save as most people would say "just a pigeon" 2) Is there anyway to tell a fracture, dislocation and sprain apart in a birds wing? 3) Any other suggestions on how I can immobilize the wing? Any other suggestions are appreciated as well. We thank anyone who responds.


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## Bertie_Bud (Sep 9, 2006)

Hello:

I don't recommend taking injured pigeons to wildlife rescues. They only have a limited budget to care for injured wildlife and that means focusing resources on rare wildlife and generally healthy, easy to care for cases. I would bet anything that they would put your bird down if it couldn't heal up completely and fast. I brought a crow with a broken wing to the wildlife rescue once and they put it down. My recent injured pigeon suffered the same fate.

I just wish that they'd be willing to make an assessment and return the bird to me if they plan on putting it down anyways, but it is apparently against some law to give the bird back to us once we give it to them. 

There are a lot of wonderful people on this site that could probably instruct you on how to help and care for it. I would recommend that route over taking it to the rescue. The bird definitely has a better chance of living with you. 

Just my opinion, 
Marie


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Hi Mozart,

there are several ways to wrap injured wings. Pidgey is our injured wing expert, hopefully he will see your post soon.

Some wildlife centers will care for injured and sick pigeons, most though don't and the ones which do nurse them back to health, they might not provide long term care. If the pigeon won't be able to fly again, they might put him to sleep.
Best to ask all those questions when you call them.

Where are you located? Maybe we a have a member who can help you nearby.

Thank you for rescuing this poor bird.

Reti


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, it sounds more like you need an antibiotic than a splint. It's possible that you're describing a Paratyphoid boil rather than a break. With breaks, they don't swell much at all and they don't seem to get a local fever but with Paratyphoid (actually Salmonellosis) in the arthritic form it makes joints swell. Sometimes it can resolve on its own and you'd think it was a break. Other times, it can make the joint itself enlarge and then the bird's flying ability is limited for the rest of its life. Paratyphoid boils can occur in just about any joint although they happen most frequently in the wings.

However, that's not the only possibility here. Therefore, you can go here:

http://people.eku.edu/ritchisong/skeleton.html

And take a look at the skeletal drawings to figure out what's where.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

For a Figure-of-Eight dressing:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=149087&postcount=3

Personally, if I determine that an injury requires one, I usually do it with masking tape so that it won't come off. I only do one round and make sure I've got the resting geometry right before it do it, though, because stopping and doing it over is a real pain in the... . Anyhow, when it comes time to take it off, it's best to hold the tape still, pinch the feathers and pull them loose from the tape.

Pidgey


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## mozart (Oct 12, 2006)

*Thank you for all of your assistance so far and a few more comments*

Hi everyone,
As for the wild bird care centre I spoke of in my initial post they told me that the Pigeon's fate depends on the injury. The lady I spoke with commented that if it can be treated they will, but if he or she won't be able to fly or she made it sound "too complicated to treat" then they will put the bird down. 
As for the injury itself, I believe it's involving the wrist. The best way to describe it is when the Pigeon is resting if you gently place your hand along the back and wings there is a bone on each wing that you can feel poking up a bit (as mentioned earlier I believe this to be the wrist) well it is this bone poking up that is enlarged. It actually is poking ever so slightly through the feathers. Pidgey has me curious about the Paratyphoid boil that was mentioned. Do these boils cause the Pigeon's wing to droop? And where would I get antibiotics to give the little one? There are no vets around me that will see birds. I'm so confused what my next move should be; I don't want to see the little one lose its life needlessly. If anybody is willing (maybe you Pidgey) I would be more than happy to try to photograph the wing best as possible and email. Thanks again


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Yep, that sounds more like a Paratyphoid boil than anything. The drug of choice is called Baytril (Enrofloxacin) and is the veterinary equivalent of Ciprofloxacin. You'd need to get it from a vet or a local pigeon fancier. The dosage is 15 milligrams per kilogram of bird, twice daily. It may come in a pill form from a vet but it's often in a liquid form and there are many concentrations. You'll have to check and see if you can get that.

Pidgey


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Mozart,

Pictures would be very helpful. You can attach them to a post here or put them on a picture site like webshots and then post the link to them here.

Paratyphoid boils can cause the wings to droop .. some of the boils can be very, very large. If this is paratyphoid, then Baytril is usually used to treat the condition (Ciprofloxacin will work too).

Terry


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Mozart,

Here's some pictures of a wing boil that was definitely caused by paratyphoid. This pigeon also had nasty growths in the feet from the paratyphoid. The bluish/purplish color is from Blu-Kote that my friend who owns this bird had used to try and treat the condition. The bird recovered well after a long course of Baytril.

http://www.rims.net/Paratyphoid

Terry


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## mozart (Oct 12, 2006)

*Pictures*

Hi,
I took some pictures of the wing that I am concerned about, hopefully this will paint a better picture. I studied the avian skeleton diagram and it turns out that I don't believe it is the wrist area (this is what the lady thought when I described it to the her at the rescue centre) it is the area between the Humerus and the Carpal/Ulna known as the Olecranon process of the ulna. For those of you wondering I live in eastern Ontario, Canada. Thanks in advance


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Yep, that looks more like a squeaker with a Paratyphoid boil. It'd be best to get him on either the Baytril mentioned above or a Trimethoprim/Sulfa drug like "Bactrim" for a month or more and figure that he might not fly worth a crud for several months. I've got one that I got almost a year ago exactly that looked just about like that except the boil had burst. When that happens, blood and fluid leaks out. His shoulder still slumps today but he can fly. Not well enough that I'd let him out of the loft but he can get up on stuff. It took him about six months to do that.

Pidgey


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## mozart (Oct 12, 2006)

*A couple more questions*

Hi, 
Your help is appreciated. One of my biggest concerns now is whether or not I can get my hands on some Baytril. My other concern is regarding two orphaned Pigeons I rescued this spring; they have since grown into beautiful, healthy adults that have decided to stick around on our property (we built a hutch for them) but leave them out during the day to fly and be free. What are the chances of them contracting this ailment? As well, are my other pets (cat and dog) and my husband and myself at risk? Also, since my initial post I have since been able to bandage the wing securely; since it is believed to be a boil should I take the wrap off? I am guessing so, but will wait for a reply.
Which brings me to my last question (I'm sorry I realize this is actually more than a couple) if I am unable to acquire Baytril from my regular vet that treats my cat and dog, who happens to not be an avian vet, is there someone in my general area that would be willing to help? Thanks so much


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

As long as the other birds have no contact with this guy it is ok. They won't contact the disease.
As for you and your house pets the chances are very slim to contact any diseases from the bird. Best to keep the cats away and humans wash your hands after handling the bird.

If he doesn't mind the wrap, leave it until it comes off. Just in case he also has an injury. If it comes off, then let it be.

If you can't get Baytril, an alternative is Cipro.

Reti


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## Bertie_Bud (Sep 9, 2006)

Hello! 

I live in Canada too, and although I haven't tried ordering any yet since my pigeon didn't require it, I've seen it on sale online via many pigeon supply stores. 

http://www.globalpigeon.com/gps.php
http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/catalog/para_sal/index.html

Those are some websites I've seen listed here. They sell Baytril as well as many other similar medications. 

Here is a site with some info on paratyphoid:
http://www.wingswest.net/pigeons/health/paratyphoid.html

I love the pictures you posted. He looks so cute! I hope he will get better soon. 

Cheers, 
Marie


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Interactive pigeon skeleton web-site*

I found this site today. Might be useful. It's fun and educational to click on.

http://www.biosci.ohio-state.edu/~jcondit/current/skeletal_system/Skeleton.swf

Larry


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Larry, that is a great site. Thank you.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Larry, that site is just SUPER! Thanks so much! I have added to My Favorites!

Will sure help when questions are asked regarding injuries and their locations!


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi Mozart,

Please post how you make out with your regular vet for the Baytril, if needed I should be able to help out if you strike out with some Cipro.

Good luck with this bird,

Ron


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## mozart (Oct 12, 2006)

*Tetracycline and vaccinate or not to vaccinate*

First I would like to thank Pidgey, Bertie Bud, TAWhatley, Reti and Larry for the great advice and links. I am trying my best to get the required meds locally and if that doesn't work for me then I will have to order from one of the sites on the internet. My concerns include issues with it entering the country and having to purchase so much of it. The only antibiotic that I can currently get is Tetracycline. Considering this hasn't been mentioned I'm figuring that it's because it isn't effective on Paratyphoid boils. Am I right?
Also, much of the material I have read so far says to vaccinate as well as using antibiotics; should I be looking into vaccinating the little one as well?
Thanks


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## mozart (Oct 12, 2006)

*jazaroo and help with meds*

Thank you so much Ron for offering to help us out. It means a great deal when people like you come to the rescue and hey, you're from Toronto I see. When I spoke to the animal hospital's secretary this morning she doubted they would be able to help because he isn't an avian vet and I believe that is true because he hasn't returned my call (she said he should call by 9pm). If you are willing to sell me some cipro that would be a great relief on my part and would mean alot to get the required treatment started. If you want to email me directly or post how you would like me to contact you. Thanks in advance


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

I PM'd you, check your mail.

Ron


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## mozart (Oct 12, 2006)

*Update and a concern*

Hello, thought I would update everyone that might be wondering how the squeaker is doing. Overall, I am pleased with the progress so far. I do have one concern about the affected area however. The swelling seems to be all but gone at this point, which is great of course. What worries me is that even with the swelling down there still is a protrusion that is larger than that of the other wing. Is this a normal occurrence along with Paratyphoid boils? Other than that she is very spirited and eating well. Her favourites are milo, wheat, and peanut that I break-up for her.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

The rescue that I got that had the worst one (like yours) actually had the entire elbow joint get enlarged arthritically. It took over six months for him to start flying and I don't think he can maintain flight for very long at a time but he can go about anywhere in the loft that he wants to go. As to the duration of medication, it would be best to continue until there's no little soft pad of flesh in the area entirely. That is, continue until you only feel hard joint with only a thin covering of skin. The reason is that the Salmonella bacteria can hide in the callous there and come out again later so it's best to kill 'em till' there ain't no mo'. Kill 'em! Kill 'em all and kill 'em dead!

Pidgey


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Glad to hear he is making progress.

Thanks for the update,

Ron


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## mozart (Oct 12, 2006)

*Please help again, we have a new problem*

Just when I was about to post another progress report on the squeakers condition another problem has come up. I woke up this morning to find the corner of her mouth swollen up to just under her eye. This is really worrying me, is this related to the Paratyphoid boil or is this a new ailment? I will take a picture and post it in the next hour.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

mozart said:


> Just when I was about to post another progress report on the squeakers condition another problem has come up. I woke up this morning to find the corner of her mouth swollen up to just under her eye. This is really worrying me, is this related to the Paratyphoid boil or is this a new ailment? I will take a picture and post it in the next hour.


I don't think this is paratyphoid .. could be, I suppose, but I don't think so .. canker or pox most likely. The quicker you can get the pic up, the better.

Terry


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## mozart (Oct 12, 2006)

*Canker of pox? Pic woes...*

Hi everyone,

Camera battery died just as I tried to take the pictures! :-(
Trying to get the pictures done and posted asap. Thank you for your patience and sorry to make anyone wait if they are.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

If it's canker, you need to get an anti-canker medicine fairly quickly. Can you tell when you open the beak if there is anything that looks like little growths of wet, cheddar cheese?

Pidgey


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## mozart (Oct 12, 2006)

*Canker or Pox? Pictures are ready*

Sorry for the delay. Thank you so much again for your offer to help. Please offer your opinions. We can use all the help we can get.


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## mozart (Oct 12, 2006)

*Cheddar Cheese?*

Actually, it does kinda look like wet cheddar cheese. However, only directly on the inside of the cheek, right under the 'canker'. If this is canker, could you afford a quick explanation as to how it got there and what I need to get to treat it, eg. human-grade canker meds or something specific?
Also, should I continue with the Cipro? Thanks


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

That's definitely canker and you need to get going on a canker medicine .. that would be Metronidazole .. probably the easiest for you to find .. look in the pet stores for FishZole if nothing else .. Spartrix is another one but you're not likely to find that. Also Metronidazole is Flagyl if you can get it from a vet. You need to get started on this treatment right away.
There are lots of canker meds available from the pigeon supply houses, but I don't think you have time to wait for that .. hit a pet store and get metronidazole in just about any form you can get it .. then post back here and tell us the strength of the drug .. we'll figure the dose for you.

Canker is trichomoniasis .. it's a protozoal infestation. You need one of the "zole" drugs to get rid of it.

Good catch on your behalf, but now you've GOT to deal with this ..

Terry

PS: The Cipro won't do a thing for this


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## mozart (Oct 12, 2006)

*Metronidazole and dosing*

I'm really scared that I'm going to lose her, she has been through so much 
already with the Paratyphoid boil and the treatment for that ailment. I have only one tablet of Metronidazole that I received from Jazaroo and I don't know the strength. The tablet is round and says DAN on one side and 5540 on the other. Any ideas?


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## mozart (Oct 12, 2006)

*PLEASE HELP with dosing*

After looking a little on the internet I found out the tablet is 250mg


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Hi Mozart. I just did some research on a pigeon that one of our rehabbers Pidgey was assisiting.You are right. It is 250 mg.


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Here is the link to the thread and check post 14 especially.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=17655&highlight=canker


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Victor .. thanks, but that link isn't working .. back in a minute with another on the dose.

Terry'


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Terry! I am glad you are on. I fixed the link, so it works now.Shouldn;t this be given as soon as possible Terry?


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

OK .. here's the dose for Metronidazole:

*Metronidazole (Flagyl): can, fel, NHP, av, fish-50-60 mg/kg PO SID or divided BID x 5d.

www.ahc.umn.edu/rar/umnuser/formulary.html 

Terry

That means 50-60 mg per kg of weight one dose per day .. or half that dose twice per day.. at least 5 days .. you're probably looking at 10 days at least.

Terry


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

*How Much Does The Bird Weigh?*

Mozart .. do you know how much the bird weighs? Even a guess will be fine.

Terry


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

*So Here's The Easy Math ..*

Dissolve that 250 mg tablet in 10 cc/ml of water and give 1 cc/ml of the solution to the bird if once a day .. if twice a day ..l give 1/'2 cc/ml.

Terry


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## mozart (Oct 12, 2006)

*weight of bird*

She is 220g or 0.5lbs


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Victor said:


> Terry! I am glad you are on. I fixed the link, so it works now.Shouldn;t this be given as soon as possible Terry?


Thanks, Victor .. yes, the med should be started ASAP.

Terry


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

mozart said:


> She is 220g or 0.5lbs


Then cut my doses in about half but go on the high side .. I was going with 400 grams in weight. I'll do them accurately for you here in a second.

Terry

PS: OK .. a bit more than a half cc/ml ..


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

OK .. let me make that a bit more clear .. if you dissolve that 250 mg tablet in 10 cc/ml of water, you get 25 mg per cc/ml. Given that your bird is approx 220 grams, give 1/2 cc/ml once per day or 1/4 cc/ml twice per day. I'd give a half cc to start and go from there.

Terry


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## mozart (Oct 12, 2006)

*A queston about medicating*

She has been and currently is being treated with Cipro for Paratyphoid boil. This treatment has been going on now for just over 2 weeks. Should I continue with the Cipro? Are the two meds safe and as effective when used at the same time?


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## mozart (Oct 12, 2006)

*I apologize, I have another question*

We just divided the 250mg tablet into 16, approximately 15.6mg portions. Is the Metronidazole more effective when dissolved in water?


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi Mozart,

I was away for most of yesterday and just catching up on your thread.

Victor and Terry are right, it was a 250 mg. metronidazole tablet I sent along with the other meds, I sent it along just in case something like this came up. Please follow Terry's instructions on dosing;



> if you dissolve that 250 mg tablet in 10 cc/ml of water, you get 25 mg per cc/ml. Given that your bird is approx 220 grams, give 1/2 cc/ml once per day or 1/4 cc/ml twice per day. I'd give a half cc to start and go from there.


Please shake the solution very well before drawing a dose, as metronidazole does not suspend well in water alone. I usually add it to a mix of 50% water and 50% corn syrup for better suspension, you can do this as well, but water alone will work (again shake very well). 

Also, please get this bird started ASAP and do continue with the Cipro, Pidgey wanted you to continue for the full course, which will be about 40 days with the amount of Cipro suspension I sent you. They actually work well together, so do not worry about any med conflicts.

Please keep us updated.

All the best,

Ron


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I don't have a lot to add other than if you've successfully divided the pill then dump down the correct amount per the dosing rather than dissolving it because that way you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you're getting real medicine in instead of a slug of water/medicine that's too much water and not enough medicine. This particular case is one of the worse ones because it's going into the sinus, jaw and other parts on that side. This isn't one to play around with at all. A lot of times, there are just lesions in the mouth and throat that can go away amazingly fast and there's no deep damage to worry about. This is the kind of presentation that can get really bad so time is of the essence.

Another interesting point about this case is that the immune system is compromised, both by the Salmonella (Paratyphoid) and the Cipro. Almost anytime you take an antibiotic, it affects the immune system or the control thereof. The flagellating protozoa that causes the canker, trichomonads, has been living with the bird for awhile now (all the time you've had him) but has only just now really taken hold in the last few days and that's likely because of the immunocompromised system.

Bless you, Jaz, for sending the Flagyl, too!

Pidgey


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Well Pidgey, I believe in the old saying _"Better to have and not to need, than to need and not to have"._

All the best,

Jaz


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## mozart (Oct 12, 2006)

*Metronidazole and dosing*

Thanks goes out to all of you for helping this poor soul try to get through this. Jazaroo I can't thank you enough for sending that tablet of Metronidazole along with the Cipro. Did you suspect this would happen?
I am so tired I can't believe it! As I mentioned in my last post we have divided the 250mg tablet into 16, approximately 15.6mg portions. I gave her one portion before bed to get some on board and hopefully stop it from getting any worse. Is the approx. 15.6mg portions okay? As well, has anyone noticed if it is more effective given twice a day compared to once a day?
As mentioned before I am scared to lose her we have already been through alot together. The side that this canker formed on is the side I normally work with her to get the Cipro down; I need to know there is no connection. I know she needed the Cipro, but is it possible I was doing something wrong or could have been doing differently? I couldn't bear the thought of me causing this poor creature any more problems. I read what Pidgey explained, but I am still curious. Is it very common that a squeaker would become the victim of so many ailments? 
Unfortunately, I need to go to work for now, but will read any posts that you leave for me soon as I return home. I will be sure to comment or update. Thanks again


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Don't torture yourself--it is pretty common for them to get more than one disease at a time. You see, they've almost all got the trichomonads and could get the actual disease. Sometimes the local strain is more virulent and sometimes it's weaker. But even a non-virulent strain can turn that way when the immune system gets busy with something else.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Oh, that dose (15.6 milligrams) is fine for one day. This drug has a pretty wide safety margin and with the presentation that you've got, it's better to hit harder and faster than to dribble it in anyhow. That dose is about enough for two days normally for this size of pigeon. You could give it that much each day for the first couple of days and it'd probably be better.

Pidgey


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## mozart (Oct 12, 2006)

Just checked quickly before going out the door. What do you think her chances are of pulling through this with having her immune system already compromised?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Chances are, she'll do okay.

Pidgey


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi Mozart,

I was just covering my bases, and as Pidgey says, they sometimes become sick with more than one thing when they are in a weakened state. As you know, I also included a tube feeder and Kaytee hand feeding formula, as well as a few other meds to treat Coccidiosis and Amoxicillin in case you had a cat, and it managed to scratch or bite your little guy to treat for Pasteurella.

Well, you are on top of it and not much time was wasted before treatment began, so I am quite optimistic.

Ron

PS: Make sure to continue the Cipro and not to cut back or alter the dose, we do not want any recurrence of the Paratyphoid.


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## Baby Goose (Oct 10, 2006)

After reading this... is there anywhere out here that someone has posted a GENERAL Medicine Cabnet for Pigeons or stuff that is ALWAYS good to have on hand. 

Thanks.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Yeah, but those thread keep getting lost in the shuffle. There is some difference in the diseases seen based on the area (we're talking literally the whole world here because we've got members from everywhere) but Baytril is nice along with an anti-canker, an anti-coccidial, wormers, anti-ectoparasitics and anything else you can get your hands on. That is, if you're going to do rehabbing. If you have a pigeon as a house pet then you often don't need much but it's doggone nice to know where to get it locally if the need arises.

Pidgey


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## mozart (Oct 12, 2006)

Just wanted to let anyone know that is following me and my little friend's happenings that the meds seem to have halted the cankers progression and it is less inflamed. Her spirits are still high and her appetite is still good. Lets just hope it stays that way and she can beat all this. I apologize for just updating now. After getting home from work yesterday and caring for the squeaker and my pets I passed out......I was dead tired.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Honey, if you need to pass out, you just go right ahead and do it--just make a quick check that you're not going to hit something on the way to the floor!

Great news, by the way!

Pidgey


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## mozart (Oct 12, 2006)

Just thought I would update. The squeaker has won the battle against that nasty canker; I am so relieved. She looked as good as new within 4-5 days after starting treatment, but I continued with the treatment for the suggested 10 days. She received her last dose tonight. I have read anywhere from 5-10 days for canker. Quick question, how do you typically judge how long to treat for? 
As for the Cipro we still have another 2 weeks of treatment to go. Is she ever going to enjoy the morning of the 23rd when we wake up and she doesn't need to take any medication! She has begun to take short flights around the room and is she ever enjoying herself which is nice to see especially considering she has been through so much. I was wondering because of the Paratyphoid will I ever let her be able to mingle with other Pigeons?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

That sounds really good (that she's flying around a little bit) because it probably means that Paratyphoid treatment nipped it in the bud before the joint arthritically enlarged. Her chances for being able to fly just fine are definitely looking better. Does she hold that wing normally now or is it still dropped a little bit?

As to whether or not she can mingle later, it's likely that you'll have removed the threat of her being a carrier of the disease (Paratyphoid). That doesn't mean that she can't get it again but her chances aren't any worse than any other bird. It's about the same with the canker as well. That's a real common disease for young birds to come down with and it doesn't trouble older birds much unless they really get sick with something else.

Pidgey


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi Mozart,

Well, it certainly is good to hear she is past the canker and is recovering nicely from the Paratyphoid, you have done a good job with her.

Thanks for the update,

Ron


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