# Sadewater



## Matt Bell (May 5, 2010)

Just curious if any of you have ever used the Sadewater 'blowtorch' training method, and if so how it worked for you.


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## Wingsonfire (Dec 22, 2009)

Matt Bell said:


> Just curious if any of you have ever used the Sadewater 'blowtorch' training method, and if so how it worked for you.


Now is that where You rotisserie cook the last bird in with the blowtorch method to show what can happen to the next last one it? lol Henry may be the only one using his methods in racing if he is even still racing?


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## Matt Bell (May 5, 2010)

He isn't the only one still using them, I know a couple other guys that use them lol. I don't know if Sadewater is still racing, or if he is still even alive for that matter.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

You two have got to be joking?!


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Never heard of this blowtorch training. What I have heard is to blowtorch your loft floor to destroy worm eggs.


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## JaxRacingLofts (Apr 11, 2010)

RodSD said:


> Never heard of this blowtorch training. What I have heard is to blowtorch your loft floor to destroy worm eggs.


I thought it was to destroy Salmonella/ E-coli/Paratyphoid in the "traces" of the feces thats left after scraping. I think he was pulling your leg about blowtorching the late birds..his screen name is "wingsonfire"..he was joking about that.


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## Matt Bell (May 5, 2010)

LOL, yes wingsonfire was joking about that, blowtorch is just the name given to the particular program as the pattern resembles that from a flame on the blowtorch.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

I have never heard of it/him, but I am not really in the know. Google came up with this, maybe you have already seen it. 

http://www.angelfire.com/il2/heinie/


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## Matt Bell (May 5, 2010)

Flap, I hadn't seen the link, but I have the program from a fellow fancier. I am always looking for stuff I haven't seen/tried before, always trying to learn and become a better handler so I thought I would see if any of you all had used it before. I did know he was an eye-sign 'expert' but I don't understand enough of it to put any credence in even if I did think there was something to it, which I don't. I will try to type up the method tomorrow from what I have, as I didn't see it on the site you posted and see what you guys think.


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## Barn Pigeon (Feb 11, 2005)

I know of one top flyer in our area that uses this method and said that it works. His flying record proves it. 
Barn Pigeon


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Matt Bell said:


> Just curious if any of you have ever used the Sadewater 'blowtorch' training method, and if so how it worked for you.


 I am not familar with him or his pigeons, but I did find this article that he wrote which was published in the RPD. Apparently he is a follower of the theory that you can discern a whole bunch of things by looking into a pigeon's eye. 

http://www.racingpigeondigest.com/archives/featured_articles/13


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Still confused as to what training pattern this is supposed to be.


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## Matt Bell (May 5, 2010)

MaryOfExeter said:


> Still confused as to what training pattern this is supposed to be.


Sorry Becky, I will get it posted when I get home from work today. Its coming, I promise!


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## Matt Bell (May 5, 2010)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> I am not familar with him or his pigeons, but I did find this article that he wrote which was published in the RPD. Apparently he is a follower of the theory that you can discern a whole bunch of things by looking into a pigeon's eye.
> 
> http://www.racingpigeondigest.com/archives/featured_articles/13


Yeah he does believe a lot about eyesign, and a lot about body confirmation. I have read some of his eyesign stuff but I just don't buy that part, however his training program is interesting and others seem to have success with it.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

Last year in the RPD,they had 4 or 5 big name flyers in the USA,give what they thought made up a VG racer or breeder.....Body conformation,soft feathers,balance,eyesign, were given as very important in the make up of a VG bird...These are only things that you can feel & see....The determination and will to home as fast as possible only comes with racing the bird...
A pigeon could have all the SEEN things,and not race well...And a pigeon can handle poorly in the hand,and look like a common pigeon,but race like a champion,and be a champion....Sometimes LOOKS are deceiving....Alamo


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## Matt Bell (May 5, 2010)

Ok here is what I have as far as the 'Blowtorch' method of training. I should add that this is for youngbirds, but old birds could be trained the same I suppose.

28 days before the first race day, you train the birds in a 'V' pattern to the line of flight on the race course to get them to think more and be able to line out quickly at the point of release.

Day 1 8 miles south
Day 2 8 miles southwest
Day 3 8 miles west
Day 4 12 miles west
Day 5 12 miles southwest
Day 6 12 miles south
Day 7 16 miles south
Day 8 16 miles southwest
Day 9 16 miles west
Day 10 20 miles west
Day 11 20 miles southwest
Day 12 20 miles south
Days 13,14,15 26 miles on the line of flight
Day 16 35 miles south
Day 17 35 miles southwest
Day 18 35 miles west
Days 19,20,21 26 miles on the line of flight
Day 22 35 miles west
Day 23 35 miles southwest
Day 24 35 miles south
Day 25 60 miles on the line of flight
Days 26,27 26 miles on the line of flight
Day 28(shipping day) loft fly in the morning then 5 mile toss in the afternoon on line of flight
Day 29 clock your winners

Now obviously I would start before the exact number of days required simply because of possible bad weather.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

OH. So training in a fanned out/arched course. I also believe that is beneficial. But birds never really fly in a straight path anyway. Despite that, my dad still believes in training in the straightest bee-line from the middle of the races to our loft.  That works out great on our SW course because the middle for us falls right on top of a major highway. So that's how we train, because it is easier. I do still think it would be nice for them to have at least a little bit of a pie shape to their route. If nothing else, it lets them see more places and keeps them thinking.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Matt Bell said:


> Ok here is what I have as far as the 'Blowtorch' method of training. I should add that this is for youngbirds, but old birds could be trained the same I suppose.
> 
> 28 days before the first race day, you train the birds in a 'V' pattern to the line of flight on the race course to get them to think more and be able to line out quickly at the point of release.
> 
> ...


Sure seems like a lot of work to me. What kind of a "real" homing pigeon needs all of this kind of training to "teach" the bird how to find home ? 

I had a pair of birds this year that were so called late hatches. Their very first training toss was a 192 mile race, and they did just fine. My original mentor, Earl Ressel who was the WWII pigeon corps guy, always told me you don't have to teach a pigeon how to find their way home. To me this looks an awful lot like a way to "teach" the pigeon the way to home. Which in my neck of the woods, on a clear day, a pigeon can see up through the valley 35 miles, so this all seems a bit silly to me. But hey, pigeon guys like to think they are doing something constructive that will influence the outcome of the race.

So, if this "program" will make you feel good, then go ahead and try it. If you want to really test it out, then you would want to employ 3 teams. One team you do this "system", the other team you would employ a more traditional, line of flight, get them down to about 60 - 75 miles about a dozen times, and a couple of times at the first race station. The other control group you keep them at home the whole time and flag fly them for 2 hours+ a day. And then let's look at the race results and see what "system" has really panned out.


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## Matt Bell (May 5, 2010)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Sure seems like a lot of work to me. What kind of a "real" homing pigeon needs all of this kind of training to "teach" the bird how to find home ?
> 
> I had a pair of birds this year that were so called late hatches. Their very first training toss was a 192 mile race, and they did just fine. My original mentor, Earl Ressel who was the WWII pigeon corps guy, always told me you don't have to teach a pigeon how to find their way home. To me this looks an awful lot like a way to "teach" the pigeon the way to home. Which in my neck of the woods, on a clear day, a pigeon can see up through the valley 35 miles, so this all seems a bit silly to me. But hey, pigeon guys like to think they are doing something constructive that will influence the outcome of the race.
> 
> So, if this "program" will make you feel good, then go ahead and try it. If you want to really test it out, then you would want to employ 3 teams. One team you do this "system", the other team you would employ a more traditional, line of flight, get them down to about 60 - 75 miles about a dozen times, and a couple of times at the first race station. The other control group you keep them at home the whole time and flag fly them for 2 hours+ a day. And then let's look at the race results and see what "system" has really panned out.


LOL Warren! You think that the one which I posted is a lot of work, and you want me to fly 3 systems with 3 teams? 192 mile training toss? Didn't you use to tell us not to listen to Rotondo because a 1st toss of 50 miles is like throwing babies to the wolves? Can't have it both ways now. I do agree though, it would be a lot of work. My mentor also goes with the theory they don't need to be taught to find home. He told me that he almost never trains, just flags them as you mentioned. Said he would not hesitate sending a bird to a 400 mile race if he had been flag flown and was in shape to go, whether he had been down the road or not. I don't think I would go that far with it, but we get the point. To be completely honest, from an athletes perspective I never liked being forced to do something (this is flag flying for pigeons) but conditioning never bothered me as long as I didn't realize it was conditioning (this is training flights for a pigeon, they are out seeing new areas). Kind of like I don't mind running now as long as the scenery changes, but man I hate running on the tread mill!!!


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Yeah, that's the problem with posting your ideas in a thread like this. People will go back and point out things where it might appear that you just contradicted yourself. 

By the next to the last race, we were near the end of October, and so this pair of birds were more mature then the birds would be earlier in the year, when we typically would provide the first training toss. These birds had a lot of good loft flying, so in my judgement, had develped the condition to do the distance. Well....at least that is the story I am telling and I am sticking with the story. 

I am reminded of my Dad telling me to do what he says and not what he does, and also to add, "Don't try this at home kids".


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

I remember reading about a guy from Canada,that only trains out to TEN miles....And they say he is the one to beat on race day...There are many roads to Rome....But one main thing about training down the road 10 miles,or 110 miles...The quality of the pigeons will be the determining reason why the birds win....Not the training method used....Some old timers who don`t like to drive to far down the road,because of age or health reasons,are STILL hard to beat on race day...When the price of gas went to $3.00 a gallon,I started training South to save $$$$...My birds did better,then when I trained from thye WEST,which is the direction I should train....So the direction of training I think is not as important,as to how much training you should give...I never had 5 to 10 bird drops before in YB races....Now I'm getting them almost every race,by training OFF the line of flight...But as I said above,maybe I"m breeding better birds !!! Alamo


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## roon77 (Mar 18, 2011)

Hi Guys,
Does anyone have a Henry Sadewater book to sell or know where I could buy one.. have searched a lot online and just can't find one.. to if anyone would like to sell a book I'm fine buying an old book too..

Have always been fascinated with Pigeon eyes..

Tx 🙂


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