# Found a pigeon



## prophecy (Jul 10, 2008)

my neighbor found a pigeon,and got me as im the local ''i found a critter'' person,and i now have him safe here.hes in a bird cage,a spare one,and is being quarintined right now. he looks like a domestic type bird but is unbanded and very tame. hes mildly stressing due to the neighbors dogs,whom were the 'first responders' on scene.the dogs didnt make any contact with the bird.so he doesnt appear hurt in any way.
his eyes are clear,plumage is intact, bird is not hot(fever) but did have a slightly runny poop,nothing to idicate hes ill,as my dove has occasional 'movements' like that. hes active enuff just probably scared from his ordeal.so now what? im willing to keep him. i have no idea where this birds from.no bands no ident, but tame.any tips on this guy?
can you identify his breed anyone?

pretty big pigeon, grey all over,dark greyish head with green iridescent feathers,lighter banded wings. i'll try to google it. but any thoughts are welcome.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Sounds like the average Blue Bar feral, but without pictures, don't know for sure. It's not a baby is it? If someone just picked it up, then there's something going on. That's not normal.


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## prophecy (Jul 10, 2008)

its a feral rock pigeon, and i did pick it up it looks like a near adult/adult. it tried very little to get away though,however the wild pigeons are quite tame in our town. it was next to the road in their fenced yard/next yard has two lg dogs.do you think hes hurt? no plumage damage tho?what can i do until i can get it medical attention tomorrow? the vet is closed right now. small town here/no car right now.

i found a mourning dove simularly about 2 months ago, a little r and r and was released back where i found him 3 days later-was overheated . so i dunno, you think he was hit/stunned by a vehicle? or overheated/stressed? or more going on here?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Just keep it quiet and offer some water and food. Maybe it's just starved. Hard to tell. Hope the vet can help you tomorrow.


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## prophecy (Jul 10, 2008)

i hope so too. hes very pretty, i just feel bad hes in this predicament. im probably going to keep him,if he does well or cant be released back. if he looks like he wants to go back to being wild,any thoughts. should i release him or let him live here with us and try to tame him down a bit.wich is better for the bird,if he turns out to be physically ok in a few days..i've never had a feral bird before, do they adjust or are they better off returned to the wild again? thoughts?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, let's do a little diagnostic stuff. Do you have a way to weigh him? If not, can you feel the breast to see if the keel bone is very prominent? Start feeling way down between the legs and come forward to where that ridge stops. The question is whether or not you could hold the bird by that bone between your fingers or are the breast muscles on either side well-fleshed out.

Pidgey


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## prophecy (Jul 10, 2008)

hes appears well fleshed out,normal healthy filled out bird. hes not scrawny at all. his plumage looks thick and glossy and intact, his eyes were clear, no discharge from eyes or nostrils/beak, he looked healthy. he did have a slightly loose stool.but i thought it may be stress as there were dogs nearby him but didnt get to him at all.his body temp was not hot or cold to touch,he was normal birdy warm.any ideas? i found absolutly no reason for him to be in the shape he was in. as in just sitting there,the neighbor reported he was there for several hours, but not flying away. just walking in a small general area then acting sleepy,but not flying away or evading them. they lived near the road/other dogs in neighbors yard. im going to add this as im not sure if it could be anything.....the neighbor in question just redid there roofing.the other next to that yard just stained a wood fence and put in topsiol and a fall garden.could that affect the birds at all? otherwise,im a bit confused at its lack of get away, but it reacts to touch and voice. hes not overanimated but not overly lethargic.he walked away about 2 feet then sat down still when i went to get him. he was unafraid of me. didnt fuss at all when i picked him up. allowed me to take him in the house.flapped his wings when i put him in a cage then got all sleepy again. theres food and water in his cage and hes out of the way of other pets. any thoughts?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, he's sick or otherwise low on energy. Feel all the wing joints on both sides and see if any one of them feel swollen or puffy compared the same one on the other side.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Count the respiration rate (breaths per minute) by watching the tail bob or the back feathers expand and contract... you can always see them move somehow even though it can be very tough sometimes.

Pidgey


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## prophecy (Jul 10, 2008)

the bird is more alert this am,but its walking funny.the gait is lowslung shuffle type and the bird is just shuffling feet extended forward tail end low.feet are really forward,and he can feel them,the one foot closes the other is delayed/weak but still closes.hes not overly wobbly,and the rest of him is moving like a pigeon.its like hes butt sliding but his butts off the ground a bit.hes definatly more feisty,and i gave him some reccomended hydration solution listed on the forum,last night and this am thru a pipette.stools are normal consistancy and colors. i also put him in a 30gallon aquarium,with a 40 watt bulb on intermittantly to warm him,as we have ac on in the daytime.bedding is aspen shredds,its birdsafe,as its used for hamsters,snakes,and birds. i put a mixed seed for wild birds and finches in a small dish and gave him a millet spray,and fresh water. am i doing this right? will try the vets office today. see what they say.thanks and i'll keep you posted..


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Is he eating?

Also, make sure to give him a calcium supplement, he could just be in need of some good calcium grit.

Also, have you felt around his legs and wings to see if there are any boils or other noticeable differences? any issues around the vent, any swelling?


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## prophecy (Jul 10, 2008)

i just went and checked him.....he's more with it.he saw me,stood up and stretched wings up, standing normally.then sunk back down.he just appears worn out.havent seen him eat but he had food all night in his cage. some of the seed did look gone,not on cage bottom,so i think he may have. i'll keep an eye on him.no bulges on the vent, pooping normally. leaving light on for 15-20 mins then off for 20 to not overheat him.


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## prophecy (Jul 10, 2008)

i did respiration count 22 in 60 seconds,its very relaxed and even breathing. i spoke to him softly and he turns his head to my voice and looks and listens to me,cocking his head to the side to hear me. i know hes a wild bird,or at least unbanded,rock pigeon,by photo comparison,do you think he may have been a once owned bird'? do people have the ones that look like rocks? hes so responsive to human contact,that it makes me wonder.


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## prophecy (Jul 10, 2008)

the result of why he was down is most definatly poison, i found several more this morning, some dead,and one was in full seizure i held it as it died,petting him. i asked the local neighbors if anyone was poisoning the pigeons,and they stated that the city was trying to kill off the birds as they were ''pests.''
it just isnt right,i watched a very beautiful healthy bird die in my arms this morning.i asked the neighbors to bring the downed birds wich are not seizuring to me,i hope i can save a few of them,anyways. all of my neighbors are very upset over this. the one who brought me the downed bird last night are very upset and willing to help me out,and are calling the city about removing the poison from our area due to other animals can get into it.my current downed bird,now named Skye will remain with me for life.i wont return him to the wild,to be murdered by the city. im sorry guys im upset by this. i hate people's blind ignorance sometimes.
on that note....any of anyones birds survive this type of toxin? any ideas on what to do?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I'm so sorry to hear of this, it's incredible that they are posioning these birds, and leaving the bodies, that is a big no-no, especially around families. Also other birds will pick it up and die as well. There are certain rules that have to be strictly follwed, and they sure sound like they aren't. Please call your local fish and game dept, and see what the rules and regulations are for anyone using poison, they have to be licensed to use it here in Florida.

Usually they give the birds corn laced in the poison, such a horrible deceitful and evil thing to do.

It may be too late to clean out the digestive tract, but usually charcoal helps with that. Long term detox needs to be done. 

What a lovely name, that is my pets name, Skye.


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## Dezirrae (Oct 6, 2007)

That kind of stuff just makes me see red too!! I'm glad to hear your neighbors are also upset (not "glad", but I guess encouraged since more voices increases the chance of action) and willing to call the authorities.

As Treesa suggests - call the local fish & game dept. and also call the local office of the EPA AND the police! Toxins of any kind in a residential area is very bad... not only affecting other animals in the area, but think of all the little kids who just "can't resist" putting stuff in their mouths! Grrrrrrr  Just as an example of why to report it to the police - we once had a neighbor try to poison our tree and it turns out the police said we could file charges, a HazMat crew was called in to determine the type of chemical, AND the neighbors had to clean up the entire site and pay for the HazMat group to come back and certify that the area was chemical free. Oh - and if the tree had died the neighbors were on the hook for replacing the tree. Not an exact correlation to your problem - just mentioning since you never know when / if a law is being broken. Better to have it on record. 

I hope and pray that Skye will have a full recovery - and wish you all the best with the others you will likely have coming along. I'm so very sorry you had one die in your hands 



Trees Gray said:


> It may be too late to clean out the digestive tract, but usually charcoal helps with that. Long term detox needs to be done.


Treesa - this may be more for my own edification... but just how do you feed a pigeon charcoal? I confess ignorance - the only charcoal I'm familiar with is used for grilling  Is this something you can purchase at a local pet shop?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Unfortunately, there is no specific antidote for Avitrol, which is the standard poison. I've had them die in my hands in seizures, too, and it's a pretty ugly way to go. A respiration rate down to 22 is actually kind of low--they're normally about 30. Keep an eye on it.

Pidgey


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## prophecy (Jul 10, 2008)

i dont know how much poison Skye has gotten,if any. Seeing that poor bird this am,really upset me. However,Skye seems to be improving slowly. i have been keeping him warm,and hydrated. hes getting a bit more spunky, and we have definatly taken to him. If he lives we are keeping him,period. We noted an old leg injury that the foot doesnt close on the right leg,making perching difficult. He can stand and walk,tho.Hes really taken to us,and perks up when we see him. cocks his head toward us when we talk to him.He's eating very little though,any ideas on how to get nutrition into him? He is drinking on his own,now. Hes passing poop just fine,though hes not going a whole lot. prayers needed on his survival. thank you.


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## prophecy (Jul 10, 2008)

Hes eating.... And amazingly,starting to strut around.well sort of, he struts for about 5-10 steps then re sits down. wich is much better than his 2 step stop he was doing yesterday.. hes becoming more alert,and by god has more of an appitite.Hes getting much stronger,he even 'preened' me and my friend just a bit ago. only thing i did differant was,I adjusted the rehydration solution,to have sugar,water, touch of gatorade,pinch of salt and 1 drop human B-vitamin complex.
i think hes going to make it. wooo hoo!


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## prophecy (Jul 10, 2008)

his respiration is better at a current 28 also.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

It takes a lot longer to replenish cellular energy and that's what you're probably seeing. We (all animals) eat something and it satisfies a hunger feeling but that's not the same thing as providing energy--that takes more on the order of a good day. Cells don't actually run on glucose or other blood sugars--they run on something like Adenosine Triphosphate, which they have to synthesize from oxygen and sugars.

Initially, it actually takes energy out of the body's budget to process food and it's even possible to kill a badly deprived individual by feeding it too much too quickly. However, sounds like yours is doing just fine.

Pidgey


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## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

Prophecy,

I just caught up with this thread. I am so glad to read that Skye is doing better. Hopefully he didn't get a lethal dose. I think that if he had you would not see the improvement today. That was a terrible experience for you of finding those dying birds. Poison is a terrible death. 

I'm hoping that Skye bounces back and has a forever home with you. It sounds like he has already started bonding with you. Pigeons are really very smart and make wonderful pets. Keep us informed of how he is doing. Thank you so very much for caring for the lost and injured that you do.

Margaret


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## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

Treesa - this may be more for my own edification... but just how do you feed a pigeon charcoal? I confess ignorance - the only charcoal I'm familiar with is used for grilling  Is this something you can purchase at a local pet shop?[/QUOTE]


I'll try to add to this. The kind of charcoal that is used in poisonings is activated charcoal. In human medicine, it is used in emergency rooms when poisoning or overdose of drugs is treated. It is mixed with water into a sort of slurry and given by tube into the stomach. It binds up with the poison or drug in the stomach and intestine as it goes through and keeps the poison from being absorbed. I would guess to give it to a bird in the instance of poisoning it would be given the same way as a tube feeding. I do not know how much would be used. I also don't know if you can get it from a pharmacy. Anyone know?

Margaret


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Hi. Another horrifying example of the cruelty people choose to inflict on these peaceful birds.
I am glad to hear yours is managing OK.

Now, besides contacting fish & game, epa, and the other suggestions which are governmental agencies...also, do a web search for any local animal rights groups in your area, within 150 miles or so of you....and send them an e-mail about what is happening. More than just SPCA, I am talking animal rights/anti-cruelty organizations. There are sure to be local or state chapters which cover your area.

It's always good to complain/go into a fight with allies. Oftentimes animal rights activists/heads know exactly who to talk to.....as opposed to a layman who would have to search around and get punted from one office to another.....

Keep us posted. Thanks for caring.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

You can probably get Toxiban (http://kaeco.com/pdf/toxibansorbitol.pdf) from a local vet but can also make your own slurry from activated charcoal capsules that can be purchased at a drug/health/vitamin store. Here is a link for figuring how much activated charcoal by weight of the bird: http://www.avianweb.com/firstaid.html#toxin .. scroll down the page a bit.

Terry


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## prophecy (Jul 10, 2008)

has now been standing for about 2-3 minutes at a clip,stretching his wings out and walking,though hes wobbly due to a bum leg. but has more stamina now.
my avatar is a picture of the closest bird i can find to him,same kind of bird,just not him. i'll get some pix for you guys soon.


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## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

TAWhatley said:


> You can probably get Toxiban (http://kaeco.com/pdf/toxibansorbitol.pdf) from a local vet but can also make your own slurry from activated charcoal capsules that can be purchased at a drug/health/vitamin store. Here is a link for figuring how much activated charcoal by weight of the bird: http://www.avianweb.com/firstaid.html#toxin .. scroll down the page a bit.
> 
> Terry


thanks Terry. This might be good information for a stickey in case of poisoning. The problem is with poisoning, by the time the symptoms appear and the bird is contained, it is often absorbed to the point of where nothing can be done. But still, as in the case of Skye, who apparently did not get a lethal dose, it could have been helpful if done as soon as poison was determined to be the problem. To my knowledge, giving activated charcoal will not harm if given in error. It just passes through and is excreted. The poop will be very black if charcoal is given.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Margarret said:


> To my knowledge, giving activated charcoal will not harm if given in error. It just passes through and is excreted. The poop will be very black if charcoal is given.


That is correct to my knowledge and to my EXPERIENCE it is just tons of fun tubing charcoal slurry to birds .. what goes in must come out, and it's very, very black and messy  Especially so with ducks/geese!

In cases of poisoning by some of the very nasty agents like Warfarin, Vitamin K is also given as is Atropine.

Usually, by the time we get them, it's way too late to do anything other than the charcoal which isn't harmful and trying to flush out the system. 

Giving something to "line" the digestive system is also helpful according to our mutual rehabber friend .. she tubes milk.

Terry


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## little bird (Aug 11, 2006)

Terry, interesting about the milk but how heavy the milk? half & half-----whole --or just any you have in the fridge??


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

little bird said:


> Terry, interesting about the milk but how heavy the milk? half & half-----whole --or just any you have in the fridge??


Any that you have .. sort of like when you were a youngster and would drink milk before going out to binge on alcohol  It sorta works to keep your system from absorbing all the "bad" stuff. It would make sense to me that the more "dense" the "milk" is, the better for this purpose, but I really don't have a clue. I just know that my rehabber friend tubes whatever milk she has on hand, and I would guess that to be 2%.

That one link I posted did state to give Pepto Bismol to accomplish the same thing .. coat the digestive tract to stop as much toxin being absorbed as possible.

Terry


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Margarret said:


> This might be good information for a stickey in case of poisoning.


This should definitely be made a sticky in the sick pigeons dept.


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## prophecy (Jul 10, 2008)

SKYE UPDATE
Hes doing well again this morning,up and walking a bit.last night he was seen drinking and pecking seed.his walking is abnormal,but suspect his leg was hurt awhile back. his back toe,the one facing from the back of his one foot is messed up.hes kinda like a pidgy weeble,wobbles when he walks.lol

for those advocating activated charcoal.....its good to know...... in humans it only works in the first few hours for toxins,the more the time the more the body processes removing the toxins from the digestive tract to bloodstream.so even as it wont hurt to do so,it becomes ineffective after awhile,as the toxins are absorbed to the body systems.but will render harmless most toxic substances remaining in the digestive tract.ie drugs,overdoses, toxic plants,and accidental ingestions by children and domestic animals.i just thought id add that for general knowledge.

sorry.....i was geekin' out on you guys.lol beware of my geek attacks,as they are affectionatly called by my family and friends.


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## prophecy (Jul 10, 2008)

hi everyone, Skye is fine,and very ''spunky'',he was at the vets today. i just told the vet hes an 'adopted bird from a private owner' so he'd get treated better. the injury to the foot is permanant and old, the leg was broken and severed the nerve to that toe in the back of the foot. wich now makes him,in my mind unreleasable.he cannot perch. i have moved mr.nippy bird Skye to an open wired dog crate, in my upstairs sitting room,on my windowseat. so he can gaze out the window,and soon learn to be a partially domestic bird. thanks guys!


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

prophecy said:


> hi everyone, Skye is fine,and very ''spunky'',he was at the vets today. i just told the vet hes an 'adopted bird from a private owner' so he'd get treated better. the injury to the foot is permanant and old, the leg was broken and severed the nerve to that toe in the back of the foot. wich now makes him,in my mind unreleasable.he cannot perch. i have moved mr.nippy bird Skye to an open wired dog crate, in my upstairs sitting room,on my windowseat. so he can gaze out the window,and soon learn to be a partially domestic bird. thanks guys!


Sounds like Skye has good days ahead!! Thanks for the update.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Thank you for the update, and especially for adopting him.


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Sounds like Skye will be living the good life from here on. Thanks so much for taking him in and giving him a forever home.

Believe me there is nothing sweeter than a spoiled rotten house piji. lol.

Regards,
Louise


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## prophecy (Jul 10, 2008)

my only question here lies,what is realistic for 'taming' a feral pigeon? can they be domesticated or should i allways expect ''wild'' behaviour?

what about introducing other birds later on?? birds are 'flock oreinted' so would he be better with a buddy? how would i go about it?

right now heres what i need.... handling/training/feeding advice for feral birds.

As hes been, well......biting me.lol i look at him like hes nuts,and tell him i've been bitten by much bigger badder things than him,and hes being silly. i dont retract my hand i just fill dishes (wich is mostly when hes ''nipping me'' and puffing at me) i just ignore his nips and talk softly to him.im actually glad hes nipping me,considering the state i found him in.he tolerates me touching him,and picking him up to move him out of the way.he solicits petting,lets me,then nips when he's had enuff. wich i think is normal right?

hes so full of piss and vinegar, i just love it! i knicknamed him ''killer'' today as hes such a little snot.he kept nipping at me and popping back and circling my hands. hes a trip.
spunky lil bugger.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

"Killer", huh? Have you read this one?

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f10/m...can-never-be-sure-of-the-sex-until-29349.html

Pidgey


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## prophecy (Jul 10, 2008)

oh, geez! thats funny..... i guess it wasnt 'killer instinct'' just ''killer pms'' that earned him,i mean....her a name lol.

my friend is now holding my ''killer'' and hes snuggling..... i guess he doesnt like me as much as he likes her.........lol


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

prophecy said:


> As hes been, well......biting me.lol i look at him like hes nuts,and tell him i've been bitten by much bigger badder things than him,and hes being silly. i dont retract my hand i just fill dishes (wich is mostly when hes ''nipping me'' and puffing at me) i just ignore his nips and talk softly to him.im actually glad hes nipping me,considering the state i found him in.he tolerates me touching him,and picking him up to move him out of the way.he solicits petting,lets me,then nips when he's had enuff. wich i think is normal right?
> 
> hes so full of piss and vinegar, i just love it! i knicknamed him ''killer'' today as hes such a little snot.he kept nipping at me and popping back and circling my hands. hes a trip.
> spunky lil bugger.


Well, it's a real good sign that he isn't afraid of you - you're a pigeon's equal 

We got one who, when I check for eggs in his nest, I pull my shirtsleeve down over my hand, he's such a biter. Wouldn't you know, it doesn't work - he somehow still manages to find bare skin to latch onto. Once they know we mean them no harm, they get away with anything 

John


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## Dezirrae (Oct 6, 2007)

That's wonderful news about Skye!!! Both that he's feeling & acting so much better AND that he's got a forever home with you. Sounds like it was all meant to be 

Just curious - when he nips at you is it mostly in the cage or really just anywhere at this point? Just asking cause our guy, Hope, will nip constantly in his cage - take him out and he's a little cuddle bug! So it may just be a territorial thing. You could try starting to feed him from your hand.

Here's a few recent links to check out regarding taming pigeons:
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f5/newb-here-how-to-i-make-my-pigeons-nice-28925.html

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f23/can-you-train-a-feral-pigeon-29152.html

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f5/taming-question-29114.html (this one is more about baby pigeons - but you may pick up something interesting)

And thanks everyone for the information about activated charcoal - I had no idea. I agree about it needing to be a sticky.


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## bweaz (Aug 1, 2008)

I think the pigeon will tame down in a while. I had a vet tell me that all feral pigeons are "partially" tame because when they first came over here more than 200 years ago people kept them in cages and what not. Don't know about that, but it sounds good.

From what I know, most pigeons tame down pretty easily. And I wouldn't worry about the nipping. My pigeon does that sometimes when she is playing. I think they probably "play" and "learn" from that. Plus, I would rather be pecked by my pigeon than bitten by my parrot. The parrot just draws blood!! (Of course, I love him no matter what.)


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## prophecy (Jul 10, 2008)

its allways in his cage,mostly around the food/water dishes. he'll go at me when im giving him food or changing his water.its funny,he goes full on and then i pick him up to move him and he stops and looks at me like ''hey.....what did you do that for?? That wasnt supposed to happen''
as for holding him,yes hes fine there,and we already know his ''spots'' he likes to get petted.we still dont hold him alot,2-3 times max a day,for very short time periods. hes comfortable with being handled to a degree.i dont want to stress him though.

thanks for the help,and support here guys. i'll check those links on 'taming' pigeons,and anything else you guys can offer in advice feel free to fire away.


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