# Vets "Bird Rescue centers" and alike



## ETphonehome (Jan 3, 2012)

Humanized euthanasia cost you 50+ dollars in the US. It is a business done in the name of “the good of the animal”, what many people do not know is that the reasons why pet owners decide to kill their birds or the pet in question following the vet's advise range from misbehaviour of the pet to mild injuries from which in most cases and with proper emergency care the bird if not euthanized will fully recover. 

A "humane" method to kill some birds approved by the American Veterinary Medical Association “AVMA” is carbon dioxide, the carbon dioxide traps the air making the bird unable to breathe and he/her die slowly and painfully, an extremely inhuman, abusive, but typical way of killing other species in the US advertised an mostly suggested by veterinarians as a painless and humane solution to the nuisance.

In this sick and weird society where inverted values are the rule, pet's owners that decide not to take their ill or injured loved ones to be killed have ought enough become the scourge of the system and accused of been inhuman for deciding to take care of their pets until their last moments. 

There is in this country definitely a decomposing process going on, some people are in such state of self deceive that will even argue than if "painless and quick" killing defenceless ill or injured animals it is OK. And even the best option to stop their suffering. 

Many even claim to have done the "good deed" of the day for bringing and injured bird or pigeon to a wild rescue center where mostly pigeons, house sparrows, and starlings, all of them not protected species by law against hunting and euthanasia are "humanely" killed. Once on a “rescue center” we will never see or know anyting else about the bird or his final fate.

Everyone has the right to information and guidance, but the ones that deserve unconditional support and admiration are the ones that decide not to get rid of the rescued birds giving it to a wild life rescue center, but rather to take the challenge to bring them back alive to the wild, healthy and fully recovered.

Getting rid of an injured or sick bird just because you realize taking care of him/her is a difficult task is not an act of heroism, but an act of cowardice and laziness.

That been said I want to add that a relationship with any wild species if keeped as pets is full of all the emotions we as animals can feel, joy, empathy, sadness, happiness, anger, disappointment, forgiveness and reconciliation. At the end of the journey we become an enriched, stronger, and wiser human being.


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

You wrote this post with so much emotion. Have you recently had a bad experience with this topic? 

CO2 is not the best way to euthanize animals, only one of the cheapest. If not administered correctly it can cause suffering for animals, especially if they are not checked to ensure they have passed. 

There are legitimate times for an animal to be euthanized. But this should only happen after all other options have been considered, and the quality of life has been discussed. To just kill an animal because it is the most convenient option for the owner is reprehensible. For a vet to discuss this as the only option is just malpractice. 

I hope that you have not suffered a bad experience. If you have, I am sorry for your pain.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes, unfortunately it is sometimes kinder to put an animal to sleep. But it should be something that one has given a good deal of thought to. Sometimes that is the best thing that we can do for them. Sadly.


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## honeyrobber (Apr 28, 2011)

Wildlife rescues that I have had experience with do not work with non natives at all so all pigeons are put down. I do not know there method. But others are judged on probability of returning to the wild and there numbers in the wild. For example a Robin is not a high priority animal. Since robins are everywhere and not a priority bird they look at how much damage/illness and weigh the cost to the gain of returning to the wild. They only have so many funds and they make sure they are not wasted on a bird that legally can not be released due to their status as non natives. So if you can afford to take the bird to a avian vet and release them I am glad for you and the bird. With my money troubles I will put one down vs letting it suffer without treatment. I work on string feet and such as they are easy to take of the problem. 

CO2 is painless but most people want to rush the process. Wringing there neck is quicker and cheaper. A .22 bullet through the head of larger animals works great and is very cheap(cost 7 cents). I have kept a dog without a leg(cost a pretty penny for vet bill to remove the damaged leg). So sorry if you do not like the system. You have ferals that can not be released if I remember right from other post. You have the income and time to take care of them. Do all you can do and be glad of it most of us can not do that much. My birds have good feed and good care and I have some meds on hand but can not afford vet bills. Good news though is I am a farmer and know alot of animal fist aid and have gotten animals through some major cuts and such without vet care. sterilize a needle and sew them up after washing it out well leaving a small space open to let it drain near bottom with a shot of antibotic.


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

It is a cruel fact of life that finances, laws and regulations, and sometimes even government intervention, keep many species from receiving the care they need. Especially since many are ill or injured because of coming into contact with humans.

That is why so many people here have taken the time to gain the knowledge and experience to take care of their birds. Many of these people work with Vets, are Vet. Techs, kennel workers, or licensed Rehabbers. They bring to this forum a wide range of knowledge that they are very willing to pass on to others that have run into the concerns listed above. I would really like to know how many birds have been saved thanks to these people and the people who came here to get and use the advice given. Many people have taken birds into their care from the places they work at because the birds were going to be put down. There is at least one ongoing thread about the dedication of one person who more or less has given their life over to a bird missing almost the entire top part of its bill.

It is too bad that a lot of birds will still be put down. There just isn't enough caring people with the finances and dedication to care for them all. Several of us have tried to help by setting up Emergency Care, long term care, and medicine forums on PT. There are also several lists available listing pigeon friendly Vets and rehabbers around the U.S. and the world(?). This all helps, but it would be nice if we could still do more. Until, or if, that happens, a special thank you to those on this forum that pass on the knowledge and experience to help others that care enough to take birds under their wing to save them.

In a perfect world........


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Actually, even the people who do pass on advice can learn from others. So even those people benefit from each other, and even from the people who come on looking for help. We are all always learning. I have learned things from these new people who come on. Maybe just another way, or sometimes an even better way, of doing something, or seeing something from another angle. So we all learn from each other.


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

Great point Jay3. That is so very true.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

I agree its a huge shame that wildlife rescue organisations and vet surgeries so often become animal killing centers instead of remaining dedicated to rescuing and rehoming animals & birds in need. I understand its because of limited resources, but its still an awful paradox. 

I've had a lot to do with the Avian vets and bird rescue organisations in my city since 2008, and I basically find the people I've encountered to be liars who are psychopathic and detached from their compassion. The job probably made them that way, or maybe only the people who don't care can handle those jobs in the long run. I have learned not to trust any of them...they kill to easily, and too often. They lie, and they can be very cruel. 

The worst thing that happened was the time one of these organisations promised me they would care for 3 sick pigeons I had caught, and that they regarded them as equal to native birds and they would receive care if I handed them over to my local vet, and ask the vet to call them. I felt reassured and grateful because I didn't know anything about helping birds back then. But later when I followed up, I found out the pigeons were kept in the back of a van for three days with no food or water, and finally transported to a zoo faraway to be euthanised. One died in transit, the others were killed upon arrival at the zoo for being feral (like humans,lol). How could anyone who claims to be concerned with animal welfare do that to 3 frightened & sick birds? 

So my main issue with euthanising birds now is that there's no guarantee that it would be instant relief from suffering. The vet may just hand them over to bird rehabbers who would just let them suffer for days on end. Or they would be dumped in a cage for a day or more until the vet got around to killing it.


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

I spent over 25 years in animal care. Actually closer to 30 if I include the part time clinic and kennel work while I was in school. I have, unfortunately, met several people who did not live up to animal care expectations, including care for the "acceptable" pets brought in.

But I was also lucky enough to work with many more that always cared. I had co-workers, supervisors, professors, and even researchers who would give everything they had to ensure that the animals under their care received the best treatment possible. I saw people give up grant money because they thought the animals might suffer. To some, a grant was their livelihood. Thanks to their example, we were able to pass on this work ethic to the people I ended up supervising. These people have since passed it on to their co-workers. And hopefully, so it goes....

In my opinion, caring for animals should never be thought of as a chore, or a paycheck. Whether you are a pet owner, or work with many animals at a clinic, rehab center, zoo, or whatever, if you stop caring you need to get rid of your animals, or find another line of work.

For those people/places that are bound by financial constraints, laws, or regulations, you should be trying to cultivate relationships with people who are willing to take in unpopular animals and be willing to offer any help to them that you can, especially your expertise and knowledge. This only costs you your time!


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Its great to meet someone like you almondman. I wish I met more people like you. 30 years is a long time to give to animals, well done!


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## honeyrobber (Apr 28, 2011)

Thanks for not flaming me. I am sorry but there are alot of easy human ways to put down those that need to be put down that are cheap/free and never understood taking the animal to the vet to do it. Raised on a farm maybe alot of the reasoning behind it. I have put down 2 dogs and a horse from different things over the years. I feel it is my responsability to take care of it quickly as possible. So if you know it needs this take care of it do not make the animal suffer the time to get it to a vet.

As to finding rehabbers, I know a couple for natives and mostly birds of prey. We need more people willing to take in feral pigeons that can not be released. I have to say that is not going to be part of goals. I have some ferals removed from a horse barn and his neighbor has now called me to remove the birds from his before he sarts shooting them. These will likely end up being pumpers for my other pigeons in the long run. But around here we hunt wild dove during season and most think of pigeons as rats with wings. We need a PR campain to make people see these birds for what they are and let people know the poo is not that deadly(unlikely to cause you harm).


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

That's so true. I think the main problem is people have been conditioned to regard other lifeforms as inferior beings with less worthy lives than our own. I don't want to start a religious debate but the fact that my own religion, Christianity, regards animals as having no souls is stupid and ignorant. There is no fact behind this and yet anyone who calls themselves a Christian is supposed to believe animals are worthless compared to us, and what a shame that is for conservation and compassion for wildlife. Well I don't feel that this is right. I've been close to animals and birds all my life and they are.....sublime, innocent, infinitely wise, and beautiful in the most important ways. There are no words for how valuable and worthwhile they are. If we don't kill a human when they are inconvenient, then we should do not convince ourselves that its ok totreat our wild brothers and sisters that way.


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

What eroded my trust in the vet community was not an experience with a pigeon, but with my guinea pig. 

My 5 year-old guinea pig developed sudden hind leg paralysis. He could only drag himself forward a little bit with his front legs – a very difficult task for a guinea pig. I took him to the best hospitals in New York City, and every one of the 4 vets who saw him, told me there is no hope at all and that I should put him to sleep. He was soaked in urine and his skin was about to break open into bed sores. I almost agreed to have him euthanized, but I kept putting it off for yet another day because I couldn’t bear the thought and because he was not suffering yet. In the meantime, I started doing research on the web, and came across a breeder in England who had come across the same rare condition and often cured it with high doses of calcium and vitamin C. Every veterinarian that he had shared this info with had laughed in his face. I called each of my 4 vets to ask about it and got the exact same derisive response. Instead of euthanizing, I started the same treatment. I also moved him to a small cage where his food and water were in reach and would clean out his anus with a q-tip daily, which would otherwise become impacted. I started bathing him daily and moving and massaging his legs in the water and changed his litter to baby diapers, which wicked away all moisture if changed twice daily. This went on for six months. It was hard work but I loved every second of it and so did the guinea pig, who came to love being in the water, as well as being dried in warm towels. We bonded more in those 6 months than we had in the previous 5 years. Half a year after the onset of his paralysis, his legs began to slightly twitch. A month later he was running around the house at top speed - exactly as before. He lived happily for two more years before dying of unrelated causes from a botched surgery. 

The vets could see that I was ready to do anything for my guinea pig, yet I was presented with the false alternative of having it either living in appalling conditions or euthanizing, which indeed seemed preferable by comparison. No vet told me that even if the animal can never recover, as they falsely believed, with appropriate care it can have a good life. 

There is definitely a troubling attitude among the very people whose profession it is to care for animals, that some animals are simply not worth the trouble. I’ve also noticed that it relates to the monetary value of a species and guinea pigs are also among those “low value” species like pigeons, and unlike say, parrots. 

The other lesson for me was, that you cannot always trust the experts even when they are unanimous, and that lay people who care for animals in a comprehensive way may have gleaned insights from this direct lived experience, that professionals who see animals in a “snapshot” sort of way do not have access to, and that goes even for diagnosis and treatment – the major thing we look to vets for. As much as I rely on vets, and will continue using their services, it has to be said there is in general an impermeability in professional circles to anything that does not come from other professionals. 

This forum is such a wonderful place because it’s the antidote to this kind of attitude – it’s fueled not only by kindness, but also by openness even from the most experienced, as Jay3 so eloquently puts it. 

When people reach the difficult point of considering euthanasia on expert advice, I hope they’ll share their pain and hopelessness here because maybe, just maybe there’ s another way.

Eva


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

Bella_F said:


> Its great to meet someone like you almondman. I wish I met more people like you. 30 years is a long time to give to animals, well done!


Thank you Bella_F. My wife says that the animals were the only ones that would put up with me. She must be an animal, as we have been together 35 years.

When I was 16 or so, I worked for a vet that should have been arrested. His clinic was terrible with rusty caging, kennels, even lab and surgical tables. He was eventually put out of business, but not soon enough. I guess this guy never heard of stainless steel. This experience left me with a great desire to give any animals I came in contact with the best care I possibly could. It has caused a lot of friction with others that only saw animal care as a job. I fought with vets, vet techs, business managers, and even officers in the military, where I got my vet tech degree. This was one reason I started the thread about "What can be done about Vet care" on this forum.

It is very sad that people are forced to go through the pits of hell before hopefully finding a forum like this one. But thank God that there is a place like this to come to. There have been way too many horror stories related here about not being able to get help through regular channels.

honeyrobber - I don't know if I agree with all your methods of euthanasia, but you have raised many good points on the subject. The best one being the need to take care of business when it is in the best interest of the animal.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

nycpigeonlady said:


> What eroded my trust in the vet community was not an experience with a pigeon, but with my guinea pig.
> 
> My 5 year-old guinea pig developed sudden hind leg paralysis. He could only drag himself forward a little bit with his front legs – a very difficult task for a guinea pig. I took him to the best hospitals in New York City, and every one of the 4 vets who saw him, told me there is no hope at all and that I should put him to sleep. He was soaked in urine and his skin was about to break open into bed sores. I almost agreed to have him euthanized, but I kept putting it off for yet another day because I couldn’t bear the thought and because he was not suffering yet. In the meantime, I started doing research on the web, and came across a breeder in England who had come across the same rare condition and often cured it with high doses of calcium and vitamin C. Every veterinarian that he had shared this info with had laughed in his face. I called each of my 4 vets to ask about it and got the exact same derisive response. Instead of euthanizing, I started the same treatment. I also moved him to a small cage where his food and water were in reach and would clean out his anus with a q-tip daily, which would otherwise become impacted. I started bathing him daily and moving and massaging his legs in the water and changed his litter to baby diapers, which wicked away all moisture if changed twice daily. This went on for six months. It was hard work but I loved every second of it and so did the guinea pig, who came to love being in the water, as well as being dried in warm towels. We bonded more in those 6 months than we had in the previous 5 years. Half a year after the onset of his paralysis, his legs began to slightly twitch. A month later he was running around the house at top speed - exactly as before. He lived happily for two more years before dying of unrelated causes from a botched surgery.
> 
> ...




I think the same way, the vitamin C with the guinea pig is something even found online..these "professionals" need to think about continued education. There are some great vets that do go the extra mile, like one I know DR Welch DMV, I have seen her save the most delicate of creatures that others would of ignored. these are the people who need to be encouraged not their profession attacked. I have learned about taking control and learning myself even with human doctors, each person needs to be proactive in their own health, no one is going to care as much as yourself. I find this true with animals also.

and before someone else goes and says it..yes This vet is the exception to the rule in my little part of the world.


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

spirit wings said:


> and before someone else goes and says it..yes This vet is the exception to the rule.


I want to go on record as saying that I think most Vets are well trained individuals that do really care about the animals they treat. Having said that, I think that we, as pigeon fanciers, have chosen to care about birds that are not a high priority on many of their care lists. Until pigeons and doves become as popular as budgies, cockatiels, and parrots, we will run into this lack of caring for the treatment of our "pets".

Maybe the Vet schools need to add something to their curriculum about caring for "*all* God's creatures, great and small", not just the popular"in" animals. I remember when ferrets, pot bellied pigs, llamas, and alpacas were all the in pets of the moment. Vets were all scrambling to learn all they could to make money caring for the latest fad animal. Now that most of these animals have fallen out of favor, the only vets caring for most of these are large animal vets, and even they are hard to find. 

And yet when it comes to caring for birds that have been part of the human experience far longer than many other creatures, we find very few that are "the exception to the rule". It really is too bad. 

spirit wings - hang onto your vet for dear life!


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

I agree, and I also believe that the job itself probably changes many vets, because of the large amount of unjustified slaughter involved. It has to, if the person starts out full of compassion and a genuine drive to ease suffering in animals. When a job requires that an animal lover kills healthy animals routinely, for a living, its really cruel and difficult for the vet involved to rationalise it. Incidentally, in our country studies have shown an alarming suicide rate amongst younger vets, and its largely attributed to the degree of euthanasing involved as well as access to lethal agents. 

Anyway my person criticisms of Vets are mostly due to the fact that they cost SO much and they are supposedly the experts who we're meant to turn to for animal health care. You'd think they'd read up on things a bit more than they do, or use google, before taking people's money in exchange for supposed expertise they don't possess.

.


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