# loft windows, floor



## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

I have finally found a good contractor who is going to build me a loft this summer. The building will be 10x12, with a 4' flight pen at one end which will extend the full width and height of the structure. We are still working out the other details, so I thought I would get some opinions here.

First question: The building will have two windows, floor vents (scuppers) and roof vents (all secured from critters with hardware cloth.) If the windows are placed across from each other, will they create too much of a draft?

Second question: The contractor suggested an epoxy coating for the wood floor - both inside the structure and on the flight pen. He told me that it would be weather resistant and easy to scrape/hose down. Has anyone tried this? It sounded good to me but I wanted to make sure there were no hidden pitfalls.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts...


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

Hey there!

Congratulations on finding the contractor!

As for your questions, I would be hesitant about putting the windows on opposite walls. I think you would get better airflow if they were on the same wall. That, of course, is just my opinion.

As for the epoxy, I have never heard of that approach. I would make sure the material used is non-toxic. Have you ever heard of Luuan. It is a wood product sort of like a very thin plywood. It is most commonly used to put the outside skin on those really cheap indoor doors. You know, the ones that are hollow inside. Anyway, Luuan is very cheap, smooth as glass and scrapes great. It is also moisture resistant. That is what I used on my floors and it works great. I wouldn't use it on the aviary floor if it is going to be directly exposed to the weather though.

Anyway, good luck and I hope this helps some. I am sure there will be others that come along with more info.

Dan


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

learning said:


> Hey there!
> 
> Congratulations on finding the contractor!
> 
> ...


*yep, put them side by side. *

Don't know what epoxy is............ Do what Dan said or paint the floors. The aviary floors should be wire, nothing solid.


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

my new one has a wood floor which i am going to paint, with regular outdoor quality latex. I'm using porch paint on this one, it stands up to a lot of abuse.  As for windows, I found that cross-ventilation really produces the best airflow [shrug] does not seem to agree with what folks said here, but that's my experience. And I recently added some small vents near ground level.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

TheSnipes said:


> my new one has a wood floor which i am going to paint, with regular outdoor quality latex. I'm using porch paint on this one, it stands up to a lot of abuse.  As for windows, I found that cross-ventilation really produces the best airflow [shrug] does not seem to agree with what folks said here, but that's my experience. And I recently added some small vents near ground level.


Sorry, but I have to agree with the Snipes. I may be new to pigeons, but I know that windows placed opposite each other always give better airflow. You get a cross draft. The air travels in one window and across, out the other. This is true even in your house. The perfect thing would be to have three. Two beside each other, and one across for air flow. Good for when it's hot. If it gets too windy, you could close the one opposite. If you have the room, that is. Congrats on your new loft.


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

Jay3 said:


> Sorry, but I have to agree with the Snipes. I may be new to pigeons, but I know that windows placed opposite each other always give better airflow. You get a cross draft. The air travels in one window and across, out the other. This is true even in your house. The perfect thing would be to have three. Two beside each other, and one across for air flow. Good for when it's hot. If it gets too windy, you could close the one opposite. If you have the room, that is. Congrats on your new loft.


I think the problem here that one would try to avoid is drafts. You want fresh air to circulate but not a constant draft. That is why most lofts will encorporate a ventilation system that will create air flow from the bottom on one side of the loft to the roof on the other side.

One thing I have noticed in my loft is that the birds seem to avoid the perches and nestboxes closest to the opennings to the aviaries. I suppose that is because of the direct airflow coming in those opennings.

Just a thought,

Dan


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

something tells me drafts may not be as dangerous to them as lore suggests. After all they live outdoors on their own where they are lucky if they can avoid them. That's just my opinion on it but that aside, in winter I have covers and insulation over the windows, and if your windows aren't the sort that open and close, shutters of some sort that can be closed in disagreeable weather are a good idea. My birds love to park right in front of the large window and stare out, and some even like to sleep there.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Interesting. Maybe it depends somewhat on how windy an area the loft is in. Shady versus sun beating down. Even the individual bird. Don't think a constant strong breeze blowing in on them would be great, but some air circulation is needed. This discussion is interesting, as I'm thinking of having a small one built. One thing for sure, you gets lots of ideas and opinions here.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

And to add to the mix...different parts of the country would make a difference too! 

Our AZ heat and climate is much different than Karen's MA! We also don't have a lot of the humidity that points East have. 

Best of everything, Karen! We will look forward to seeing your completed loft! 

I keep thinking that epoxy is that hard, shiny, plastic like stuff used for coating tables, among other things. Or is that stuff something else?

Shi


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You may be thinking....polyurathane?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

If you go searching for lofts, you will find different versions/types in different parts of the US and in the world for that matter, but you won't find very many that have "cross drafts/breezes".......what ever you want to call it. People just don't build lofts that way. If you look at enough, you'll see that most have windows in the front of the building and ventilation along the floor and/or roof lines.........lofts have been built that way for ages.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Jay3 said:


> You may be thinking....polyurathane?


YES!! The minute I saw the word, I knew...I "felt" that epoxy wasn't right, but just couldn't think of the RIGHT word!

Many thanks, Jay3! 

Shi


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## bigislerollers (Jan 20, 2008)

Aloha All,

There is an epoxy based paint that is used on garage floors. I wonder if this is what Amoonswirl's contractor is talking about. Might be good for a loft floor coating, as long as it's not toxic.


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## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

Hi all and thanks for the tips!!

There will be vents in the floor and in the roof gables. Plus two windows. Do you think that placing the windows perpendicular to each other would be ok? That would be one on the 10' side, across from the aviary, and one on the 12' side, next to the person door...

As far as the floor goes, all I know is he said it was an "epoxy" and it would be weather resistant as well as very smooth and easy to scrape and hose down. I will confirm that it is non toxic before I let him use it though.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Yes, I would confirm that. Better to be safe then sorry.

Perhaps the epoxy is hazerdous to their breathing when wet and I'm sure they won't be anywhere near it during construction phase. Find out when it is dry if it will exibit any toxins, and won't wear off of the floor enabling them to pick it up and eat it. That would be my concern, as my birds are always picking up stuff off the floor.


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## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

Trees Gray said:


> Yes, I would confirm that. Better to be safe then sorry.
> 
> Perhaps the epoxy is hazerdous to their breathing when wet and I'm sure they won't be anywhere near it during construction phase. Find out when it is dry if it will exibit any toxins, and won't wear off of the floor enabling them to pick it up and eat it. That would be my concern, as my birds are always picking up stuff off the floor.



Hi Treesa (and all)

I just confirmed with him that the substance is non toxic once cured. It cures in 48 hours. He is building and covering the floor first and the project will take several days. So by the time they move in it will be safe.

It should not wear off the floor either. LOL, I am always telling my birds not to pick stuff up off the floor but they do not listen


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

amoonswirl said:


> Hi all and thanks for the tips!!
> 
> There will be vents in the floor and in the roof gables. Plus two windows. Do you think that placing the windows perpendicular to each other would be ok? That would be one on the 10' side, across from the aviary, and one on the 12' side, next to the person door...
> 
> As far as the floor goes, all I know is he said it was an "epoxy" and it would be weather resistant as well as very smooth and easy to scrape and hose down. I will confirm that it is non toxic before I let him use it though.


Is this going to be just one big building or do you plan to have two sections? I"m guessing one big building by your description and questions.


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## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

Lovebirds said:


> Is this going to be just one big building or do you plan to have two sections? I"m guessing one big building by your description and questions.


The original plan was to have one small section partitioned off inside the "person door" for me to keep supplies. Perhaps 3' deep, and the full 10' width, made with hardware cloth rather than wood. The rest of the interior space and aviary will be for the pigeons.

Would you recommend breaking up the space for the birds too?

btw - I have also decided to spend the extra money now to have electricity put in. I imagine the light fixtures and outlets would go in the supplies area to avoid any risk of injury to the birds. But we have not yet discussed the details. Anything I should consider?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

amoonswirl said:


> The original plan was to have one small section partitioned off inside the "person door" for me to keep supplies. Perhaps 3' deep, and the full 10' width, made with hardware cloth rather than wood. The rest of the interior space and aviary will be for the pigeons.
> 
> Would you recommend breaking up the space for the birds too?
> 
> btw - I have also decided to spend the extra money now to have electricity put in. I imagine the light fixtures and outlets would go in the supplies area to avoid any risk of injury to the birds. But we have not yet discussed the details. Anything I should consider?


Electricity is good. Our light fixtures are inside the loft. The switches are in the hall way as well as the plugs. 
I don't remember all the birds you have, how many, etc......who's mated, who's not......but I personally would at the least split the building in two sections. Maybe a wall that can be taken down easily. Or maybe a sliding door of some kind that can be closed off if needed. I guess some others should weigh in on this. Are you going to build nest boxes or just perches or both? A section to quarentine birds would be good. But I guess you could do that in the house. I have to remember that you guys don't do with your birds what we do. Raising babies in the house is OK with hubby, but bringing them in to live is a no no.  Any new birds that come here or show up here or get injured, still stay out in the loft. 
I just think that while you're building, two sections is something to consider. 
My young bird section for instance is actually 3 different rooms. However, I just prop the door open and I've got one BIG section. Right now, all my young birds have 2 5 X 10 sections and 1 7 X 10 section. SO, if I need to, I can close doors and have 3 separate sections. A section to put parents in with babies, etc.............I don't mean to confuse you.........but I'd hate to see you put this building up and then wish you'd done something different or extra........to be quite honest, that will probably happen regardless of what you do.........LOL.......it happens to EVERYBODY that builds a loft.


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## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

Lovebirds said:


> ...I don't mean to confuse you.........but I'd hate to see you put this building up and then wish you'd done something different or extra........to be quite honest, that will probably happen regardless of what you do.........LOL.......it happens to EVERYBODY that builds a loft.


No worries, I am already about as confused as one can get, lol. But determined to finally just go for it!

I expect I will want some changes over the years. But instead of starting with a small loft and expanding, I am starting with about as large a structure as will fit on the property. It is much easier to divide internal space than to have to start all over and build bigger.

I've had the good fortune to visit quite a few lofts over the past several months and have taken lots of mental notes of what I want (and don't want.)

Right now I have 14 pigeons. 4 pair and the rest are singles. I have requested 10 nest boxes and 25 interior perches, plus a few perches in the aviary as well. I don't intend to breed right now. But to be on the safe side I planned for more than I need.

The ringneck doves will most likely move into the pigeon section of the indoor aviary I currently have.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

amoonswirl said:


> No worries, I am already about as confused as one can get, lol. But determined to finally just go for it!
> 
> I expect I will want some changes over the years. But instead of starting with a small loft and expanding, I am starting with about as large a structure as will fit on the property. It is much easier to divide internal space than to have to start all over and build bigger.
> 
> ...



Good deal. Can't wait till he gets started so we can see the pictures!! Good luck.


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## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

Lovebirds said:


> Good deal. Can't wait till he gets started so we can see the pictures!! Good luck.


Thanks!!! I can't wait either. He starts on the 9th, weather permitting. I'll post photos as I can. Most of the construction will be done during the day while I am at work though.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

amoonswirl said:


> Thanks!!! I can't wait either. He starts on the 9th, weather permitting. I'll post photos as I can. Most of the construction will be done during the day while I am at work though.


Well, just give him the camera and tell him you need pictures to show ALL of your friends!!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You must be so excited. Just take pictures at the end of the day when you get home. Each day you can update us. I can hardly wait to see this.


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## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

Jay3 said:


> You must be so excited. Just take pictures at the end of the day when you get home. Each day you can update us. I can hardly wait to see this.


I'll definitely take as many photos as I can. I'm really excited but also a little nervous...it's BIG step...and it's going to take up about 1/4 of our little urban backyard. (Hubby is glad there will be less grass to mow though, lol)


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## 1st Landing Lof (May 15, 2008)

2 part epoxy is the way to go. The two parts have a chemical reaction and will cure super hard. After curing it is completely safe, no fumes and if it does chip they are harmless. It will scrape very easy. The only falt, is that it is expensive. If you can afford it, that is the way to go.


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## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

1st Landing Lof said:


> 2 part epoxy is the way to go. The two parts have a chemical reaction and will cure super hard. After curing it is completely safe, no fumes and if it does chip they are harmless. It will scrape very easy. The only falt, is that it is expensive. If you can afford it, that is the way to go.


Thanks 1st Landing! Glad to know it is non-toxic. 
The contractor is charging me a bit extra for it but I think it will be worth the cost.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Karen, wasn't he going to start on the loft on the 9th? Has he started yet? I'm anxious to see pics.


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## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

Jay3 said:


> Karen, wasn't he going to start on the loft on the 9th? Has he started yet? I'm anxious to see pics.


Hi Jay & all,
My bad. I have been taking some photos of the progress each day and putting them in my flickr album here.

Can't wait to see how it looks when I get home tonight! Should have a roof and possibly the windows or aviary done. The electrician comes tomorrow.

It's taking a little longer than expected, but I'm not in a huge rush so that's ok.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Looking good!! I know how excited you must be............I bout drove my husband insane when we were building ours. He'd want to take a break and I didn't want to stop working........wanted to get it done!!


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## 1st Landing Lof (May 15, 2008)

The loft is looking GREAT!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Hi karen. I'm sooooooooo excited for you. Looks great. I just know that you're going to be so happy when it's done. And BTW, we started on ours today! We have the floor down. Oh Boy!!! Isn't this fun? I'm so happy for the both of us!


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## Guest (Jul 16, 2008)

oh it looks great but just remember the bigger the windows are the better, they love the light and freash air ... I keep my front open almost all year round and plastic coated on winter days for not only light but ventilation too


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## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

Jay3 said:


> Hi karen. I'm sooooooooo excited for you. Looks great. I just know that you're going to be so happy when it's done. And BTW, we started on ours today! We have the floor down. Oh Boy!!! Isn't this fun? I'm so happy for the both of us!


Congrats Jay! Post photos of the progress if you can - would love to see


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## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

LokotaLoft said:


> oh it looks great but just remember the bigger the windows are the better, they love the light and freash air ... I keep my front open almost all year round and plastic coated on winter days for not only light but ventilation too


The construction is not complete yet, but it will have 2 windows like this:








Also large double doors opening to the aviary on one side, and roof vents/floor vents as well.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Lookin' good Karen. Gosh, you're almost there. Wait til the birds see it!


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## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

*it's done!!*

It's done!! I am so excited! Here are some exterior photos...

Back view with aviary:









Corner view to show windows:









View from the driveway:









The interior is just as perfect 
Can't wait to move the birds in!!!!


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

It looks WONDERFUL!! We want to see the inside too!! The birds are going to LOVE it!!


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## Avion (May 28, 2007)

Looks fantastic. The birds will love it along with the flower pots in the windows. They give that homey look to it.

George


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

One suggestion, if you're not already planning on doing it. Put some perches in the aviary. As it is now, they have to lay on the floor. Unless there's some in there that I can't see?


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## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

I have some perches for the aviary - just have not put them up yet 

More photos of interior are here:
http://flickr.com/photos/pushmeover/sets/72157606072267958/

Hope to move the birds in on the weekend.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

It looks really nice. love the flower boxes. We want to see pics when the birds are out in the aviary. They're gonna love it.


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## Guest (Jul 23, 2008)

your loft turned out spectacular as I knew it would since you just have that artistic flair about you with everything you do ..beautiful


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