# Mom Pigeon Died just hatched the babies



## Nita (May 30, 2004)

Hi, We had a beautiful snow white pigeon that has been trying to hatch eggs since last summer. She had maybe 6 different sets of eggs that never hatched but then changed boy friends and they laid eggs about 20 days ago. Day before yesterday she was killed by a cat and our other 3 pigeons including the father abandoned the coup. He left the eggs over night so I brought them in and they were very cold. I put them under a light thinking the wouldn't hatch any ways but one just hatched...just 20 minutes ago. I have never raised a baby pigeon but am home all day so time is ok. I do have baby food formula from an older baby that we saved but could never get it down its throat...thank goodness it started eating seed but how do I take care of these two little ones. The other one just started pecking inside the egg asI can hear it when I hold it to my ear.
Nita


----------



## birdlover000 (Aug 17, 2003)

Here, this may help you, click on the link. It will tell you how to take care of little pigeons.

I really don't know anything but this may!
http://www.duckpolice.org/BirdWeb/PigeonResourceWeb/babypigeoncare.html 

Good luck


----------



## dano7 (Feb 10, 2004)

You are motivated and you have the time and that's a big plus. Keep the baby warm - 80 degrees is good - use a heating pad under a towel or a lamp shining into a box. 

Place it on a coarse fabric like a towel or a sweatshirt. The baby is placed in soft tissue paper on the towel. 

Food and feeding frequency depend on the age - for the first three days - the most critical time: 93% - 95% water and 5% - 7% solids. Use dry dog chow crushed into a very fine powder and mixed with warm water. If you have have some digestive enzyme supplements and a probiotic (non-dairy), then mix some into the food in a powder form. For older chicks to weaning age: 75% - 80% water and 20% - 25% solids. The feed can be thickened more by about three weeks. By about 10 days pij can eat about 120 cc's/day (about 8 tablespoons). You want to fill the crop at each feeding (crop is below the neck - an expanded extension of the esophagus - it's full when it feels like a bean bag but not too tight) and make sure the crop empties by the next feeding. 

In the beginning the chick will need to eat about every two hours - but it will not eat much. As mentioned, around ten days the amount will increase to to about 120 cc's (8 tablespoons) and the feedings occur less frequently - about four times a day. Make sure and feed in the early morning and before bed.

For the first days you may get better control feeding with a pipette or dropper. After a few days you can use a plastic syringe (no needle), spoon (small with a curve bent-in is good), or a baggy with a small hole cut in one corner. If the bird gets cranky then wrap it gently in a towel with just the head sticking up - it will calm down and so will you, and you can take your time.

You may introduce wild bird seed to the mix around two weeks if you spoon feed, and you can put some seed down and peck at it with your finger (your daddy now!) to stimulate the weaning process. Dip the beak in a water container that is secured in the corner to introduce the drinking instinct.

Let us know when you have any questions and good luck.


----------



## Nita (May 30, 2004)

I just tried to feed it and it hardly took anything, a few drops maybe and it sticks its toungue out like a snake. When will its eyes open?? This has been a realy hard month...we had to put our dog to sleep. A coyote ran off with one of our cats. We bought a pinky mouse to feed the new snake but couldn't do it so we bottle fed the baby mouse for 4 days then it died. My miniature horse foal coliced. Then the cat killed our favorite bird right before she hatched her 1st eggs.YIKE!!! I hope these little ones make it. I am tired!!


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hello Nita,

So sorry to hear about all the tragedies.

Thank you for helping these newly hatched babies.
The babies will need small feedings every two hours for the first few days.They need a quiet very warm environment that is safe from predators. You can layer some towels in a nest bowl in deep box, free of air drafts.They need a heat source as Dano mentioned.

Raising two baby pigeons from hatchling is a very difficult job, even for experts, let alone for a novice.This is not a job you can take on lightly.

It would be better if you could find a pigeon pair to foster care these babies A.S.A.P, ones that have a newly hatched baby themselves. The newly hatched babies require the "pigeon milk" that pigeons provide, especially for the first few days of life. 

Perhaps someone you know or where you got your birds might have some breeding pairs...or you can locate a rehabber who is knowledgable in pediatric pigeon care.

I'm not trying to discourage you from trying, but showing you an easier way that will make life easier for the babies and less stressful for you. Please continue to feed and care for these hatchlings until you find help.

Treesa



[This message has been edited by Trees Gray (edited May 30, 2004).]


----------



## Nita (May 30, 2004)

We got two of our birds from the feedstore but our original bird was a rescue that my husband got from the bridge. He works on the I-5 Interstate bridge and when birds get injured or fall from the nest he brings them home and we try to help them. So now 2 of our birds are bridge birds and two are from the feedstore but one of those died. I can't get them back into the coup either. They have been out of it for three days and have never done that. They always go to the coup to sleep but when Angel got killed they wouldn't come back in. Any suggestions? Maybe the father will still raise them?? But I don't want to put them back into the nest and them get cold.
Nita


----------



## Nita (May 30, 2004)

Also I should say that I am not new to taking care of orphaned or injured animals. It has been a passion of mine since I can remember. We lived on a farm and always took care of little critters. I am sure I can take care of them properly as long as I educate myself.
Thanks for all your help and I will keep you updated


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Nita,

I just thought I could help make life easier for you, and you definitely don't need another tragedy.

The father probably will not raise them since he took off. If the cat came into their coop, none of them will come back. They don't feel safe there anymore. The coop needs to be predator proofed if you haven't done so, already.

If it is impossible for you to get parent pigeons or find a pediatric rehabber then please follow the advice given, add digestive enzymes and probiotics to the baby bird formula, that is most crucial. 

Please update us.

Thank you

Treesa


----------



## Nita (May 30, 2004)

Hi Treesa,
She was actually killed outside of the coop on the ground anout 15 feet away. I am feeding Kaytee Exact hand feeding formula. What should I add to it?? You said a probiotic and enzymes...how do I get those to put it in??
Thankss for your help...
Nita


----------



## Nita (May 30, 2004)

Treesa, you are so right about not needing another tragedy. I always hope for the best but am realistic too. I know that the chicks might not make it but I hope they do With the baby mouse I woke up every two hours to feed it but it had an injury on its head from another mouse bite and it abcessed. I guess I will have my hands full for a good month and a half.
I'll keep you all up dated. Do you have any sugessions on how I can catch my other birds??


----------



## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

I'm also raising some babies and giving them Kaytee exact formula. It contains probiotics and enzymes so you shouldn't worry too much but you can add extra probiotics in the first few days when feeding the babies (especially the first 4 days)
Probiotics can be bought at a natural health food store.

My babies are now about 12 days old and I started tube feeding them from day 4 or 5 after my pair of birds seemed to have abandoned them but at least they cared for them when they hatched which is the hardest part. If you can find a foster couple that would be SO much easier.

Here are some pics of the birds I'm raising, might help you a bit. http://community.webshots.com/user/marypigeons 

I'll try to post some more thing later on, for now what types of syringes are you using? Try to use a little spout attachment as that makes it so much easier. 

Mary


----------



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Hi Nita,
I am so sorry for all you went through.
I wish you good luck with the babies. You've got some great advice.
I raised 2 babies from hatching, unfortunetly only one made it. The other one, my beloved Angel, is now 14 months old. I had no clue what I was doing, so she is kind of a miracle baby. She was raised on Exact formula and did good on it.
Also very important is to place the babies in a bowl like container so they won't developed slayed legs. I had Angel on a flat surface and that might have caused her slpayed legs.
Let us know how it is going, please.
Reti


----------



## Nita (May 30, 2004)

Mary how much probiotic do I add?? I love the pictures. I'm glad you added the picture with the crop. The first baby is eating ok now. I went in and it cheeped at me for the first time. I have it on a timer so I can feed it at the right times. I have another question....If I feed at 11pm before I go to bed how long can it go at night without food? I know the parents must roost and probably don't feed at night. Is it 6 hours??
Then I could feed at 5am when my husband gets up then again at 7 when the kids get up.
How old do they have to be to cut back on the feedings?? The syringe I got at petco by the bird formula, it has a skinny long tube but not flexible. I wouldn't try to put it down its crop. I tried to find flexible tubing but all I could find was fish tank tubing and its to big around. I asked the vet for some IV tubing but they wouldn't let me have any. Where did you get yours?
Right now I just patiently feed it a little at a time in its mouth. I am very careful not to give too much at once because I know it can choke.
Nita
PS The second egg has a little chip in it finally and I can still hear it chipping away. I figure it might hatch tomorrow.


----------



## Nita (May 30, 2004)

Reti, 
Right now I have it in a small butter type bowl with nesting material and a fish light over the top of that. The light is for the betta tank and it doesn't get hot enough to burn my skin. It gets to about 80 degrees. I then put it in an empty fish tank with a lid on it just incase a cat should accidently get in the room. I have to go feed it at 8pm so I better go.
Thanks for all the advice and maybe some prayer too
Nita


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Nita,

I am probably just going to confuse you even more here, but we have had so many hatchlings die as they were being handreared that I couldn't forgive myself for keeping silent.

For the first week of their lives baby pigeons are fed on crop milk, and it is the abscence of this that makes them vulnerable. I believe that the Mac Milk diet is the closest to crop milk, so I will send you a copy of this. It includes digestive enzymes etc. and should give the babies their best chance of surviving those crucial days if you have been unable to find a foster parent.

Check your e-mail.

Cynthia


----------



## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

Hello,

Since mostly when I make formula I only feed a little bit to the babies and most has to be thrown out I be careful how much probiotics I use. I try to make as little amount for formula as possible and add some probiotics (1/4 tsp) but then again for the first few days I had my pet birds raise them so I didn't have to do it myself.

In the night I got up twice to 'make' my pet hen (who was sitting on the babies) feed them. I made her feed them at 11:00 before bed then at 2 again and dawn (4:30) 
Babies are usually fed every 2-3 hours in their first days of life and that includes the night. So the morning feeding can start at 6:00 and then every 2 hours during the day.
When the babies are 4 days old you can start feeding them every 3 hours and so forth, when they are 6 days old then every 4 hours and now I'm feeding my babies who are about (13 days old) every 5-6 hours so they get about 4 feeding in the day and none at night (from 4-5 days up you don't have to night feed anymore and they start to keep themselves warm but still put them on a heating pad set on low)
What I do is put a basket with a towel in it, put the baby on top and put the heating pad under the whole basket .. Make sure it's not too hot especially during the night.

If you have those spout things that attach to the syringes, you can get those at the vet I think then what you can do is make sure the food is put on the front part of the mouth, a little dab and the bird will swallow. The crop should be quite full that you see it puffing out around his shoulder area and it should be almost as big as his body








At about 5 days old I started using a tube, for now the tube is too big if you try it on the babies so I wouldn't suggest it but when they are about 5-6 days old then you can try it.
I made it out of a computer mouse cord, I removed the wires inside and used the skiny plastic tube thingy then attached one side to the syringe spout and filed the other side so it felt "smooth" and that's about it. But tube feeding is not very easy and it needs to be done properly or else the baby could apirate though it's much easier that syringe feeding because it takes only a few seconds.

What I do is put the pigeon facing me, then I stretch his neck up a bit and gently hold his beak open. I put the end of the tube down his right side of the throat (which is my left when facing him) and I could see the tube go down into the crop (not too much or it will poke, only until it reaches the crop area) once it is in I have someone help me by attaching a syringe full of formula onto the attachement at the top of the tube and gently push the syringe plunger to release the formula into the crop all while keeping the birds beak help high up so he won't aspirate. Then the tube can be pulled out gently.
Also what you can do is use a tiny bit of oil to lubricate the tube.. but wipe most of it off before putting it down his throat. This helps make it go down nicely.

-At about 1-2 days old the baby only gets 1 cc of food (very thin formula, 1 part powder to 5 parts water + probiotics) every 2 hours by handfeeding (I would not recommend the tube unless you have a very thin one) and it's always best to leave the baby with a foster couple at this age. 

-Day 3-4 the amount can be doubled to about 3 cc every 3-4 hours or so and the formula should be a tiny bit thicker.

-Day 5-7 you can feed 10-11 cc every 5 hours and the formula should be thicker.

From then on I usually just check and see when the crop is empty and feed enough to fill it and make them happy.

Also at about 10 days old I started giving them mixture of ground pigeon pellets (ground in a coffee grinder) and water added to make a mixture like the formula and they get it by the tube. The pellets are all pigeon seeds, vitamins and alot of good stuff so they feel much fuller and they like it a lot.

So the other baby didn't hatch yet? It should take about 2 days from the first chip for him to hatch.. This was the hardest part for me LOL.. Waiting for the little on to hatch!









Mary


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Nita,

You have gotten all the information on the formula.

So, I will attempt to answer your other question about catching your other birds.

It is going to take a while for them to feel safe and comfortable in their old familiar area. You should start with making their coop and the surrounding area off limits to the cat or cats.

Next, try to gain their confidence and feed them in a familiar area, even try to feed them from your hand. offer them snacks of peanuts, nothing draws my pigeons to me quicker then peanuts. Even my pigeons that are not pets will come to my hand if there are raw peanuts in them! They will fly down to my hand to get just a morsel1 LOL

Treesa


----------



## dano7 (Feb 10, 2004)

Tube feeding is a very bad idea in most cases. The benefits of tube feeding are few--it saves time if you are raising several chicks but you have just one so you should do it right. 

What's wrong with tube feeding? The bird does not have a choice if it wants to eat or not. The chicks don't even get to taste the formula since it bypasses the tastebuds. The chicks don't get to learn how to swallow so there will surely be problems at weening time. It is no surprise that tube fed babies often suffer from stress and all of its negative effects.

Also, I can tell you from experience, it is possible for the tube to detach and kill the bird sooner or later. The inside of a tube is very difficult to keep bacteria free especially when they develop microcracks which are breeding grounds for bacteria. Mis-use of tubes will result in lacerations to the soft tissue.

Finally, if you want a well socialized bird you must hand feed to achieve the required bonding.

I could tell you the tubing to use and you could use it from day one, but I just wish people would not do it, recommend it, or teach it. Hope I haven't been to shy about this.


----------



## Nita (May 30, 2004)

Thank you every one for your replies. The chick did well through the night...I however am exhausted. I got up and fed it through the night. I don't have a tube so I am hand feeding it and it is taking it wll. though it takes about 15 minutes to fill its crop. I guess when the other one hatches it will take me 1/2 hour....sigh. I really think it will make it. Just another experience to add to my list of animals that I have saved...GRIN. <Patting self on the back> OK my husband is saying I am saying that prematurely so I will humble myself once again and realize it can still go one of two ways.
Nita


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I can tube feed, have been taught properly and have not had any fatalities, but I have had sufficient "incidents" to dislike using a tube unless there is no other alternative...which is why I like Stacey's "baggie" method, but I think that is suitable for older squabs:
http://community.webshots.com/user/mrenya 

Cynthia


----------



## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

Hello,

I tube feed as well and prefer it to syringe feeding, there is a big risk of aspiration if one feeds with a syringe because the baby moved a lot and is over excited about feeding times.
I allow my babies to be fed once a day or twice by my own birds so they know the "natural" feeding method but to save time and to make sure they don't choke I like using the tube and I've never had any problem so far, Thank God. I have had problems with syringe feeding in just the first few mouth fulls.

For bonding I spend a lot of time with the birds and they love it.. I actually think they like the tube better because they get filled up quickly and not have to wait so long. When they were younger I did give them about 3 cc of formula in their mouths bit by bit to taste and feel like they ate but as they grew they needed SO much food so the tube does it all in just a few seconds.

Now as they are older I started feeding them veggies, in between feedings I would give them thawed and warmed peas and corn in their mouths and they swallow it. They really enjoy it!









With the rescues I do it's very hard to handfeed an adult pigeon or even a young one because they don't know what is happening to them and sometimes freeze or don't take the food down which can cause them to choke so tube feeding always works and it only takes seconds.

Here is a pic of my tube I'm using for the babies.. It works wonderfully!
http://community.webshots.com/photo/147972005/148015684CqpWgY 

Of course I would never recommend anyone to tube feed unless taught by a professional to make sure it's done properly.

Mary


----------



## Nita (May 30, 2004)

The other egg hatched. One more question. Does the crop have to be empty before I feed again? Does it look like a water blister or a water baloon? Its very mushy. I massaged it a little and then refed after it went down. So far all is well and they are really catching on about the feeding. I called a local pigeon breeder to see if he has a pair I can borrow or buy but he must be gone because he hasn't called back yet.
Nita


----------



## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

Hello,

Glad to hear the other little one hatched









What you do is feed every 2 hours and if there is a tiny bit in the crop that is fine but it should look full after every feeding so 2 hours is a good time.

Are you seeing any poops? Btw. the eyes open on the fourth day or earlier sometimes!

Mary


----------



## Nita (May 30, 2004)

They are going to the bathroom. I have had to change the bedding twice and I'll have to do it again because its soiled . Thank you for letting me know when the eyes open...I was wondering about that. Is there any way of knowing what color they are. The first one has a dark beak and dark feet and is yellow fuzzy, the second one is all yellow with pink feet and beak. the dad was regular pigeon color of grey, the mother was white. I think maybe the fist will be the dad color and the second will be white. Or is there no way to really tell until feathers come?? 
Can anyone tell me what kind of pigeon the mother was...she was a beautiful white with dark big eyes. She had a smallish beak and really puffed out her chest. She was beautiful. No feet feathers. She kind of looked like a dove....but fatter.
Nita


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Nita,

Glad to hear the baby is eating well. You will really be busy with the second one hatched. You will be feeding and changing the bedding alot as they grow bigger.

These first 3 days are the crucial days of life. 

The first one, indeed, will be dark, and the second one will look like mom. I have baby's that look identical to mom and the other will look like dad. Then I have babies that are a splotchy color mix of both parents. t is very interesting.

Was mom a big pigeon? Did she look like a pigeon with a chicken suit on? If she was then she probably was a White King pigeon. I have the slim all white pigeons with big dark eyes,long beaks, and they are homers.

Please keep us updated on the new borns.

Treesa


----------



## Nita (May 30, 2004)

The fist chick died this morning. Not sure why. It was weeker last night during the feedings. I'm not sure if it should have been getting a thicker consistency but it was 1 part feed by 5 parts water just like the directions told me. Now that the second one has hatched I can tell that the fists wasn't that vogorous of an eater. It took a while to fill its crop but this one eagerly eats. Also we had a bout of Paratyphus just two weeks before these hatched...could that be a reason.
Nita
PS I am off to the feed store to try to get a foster pair for this one. I don't think I am knowledgable enough and I don't want this one to die too.


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Nita,

You did what you could.

Pigeon milk is the crucial element for newborns.

Remember, the foster parents must have baby chicks around the same age, or eggs that are just about to hatch, in order for them to have this wonderful "PIGEON MILK"

You will need the pigeons for at least the first 4 days of life, that will increase their survival rate. Would be easier for you if they could continue to raise them after 4 days.

Did the baby display rapid or labored breathing?...have Diarhhea? These are signs of Paratyphoid. 

Treesa

[This message has been edited by Trees Gray (edited June 01, 2004).]


----------



## Nita (May 30, 2004)

Well....It was very messy so maybe it had diahrea but I don't know what constitutes diahrea in a bird. It was dark green with a paler yellowish green. The bird that had Paratyphoid we bought and thought he was a different kind of pigeon because his wings hang down. But his feet swole up and the local pigeon guy told me what he has so we put the whole flock on antibiotics. Can I add antibiotics to the chick formula. This ones feet look a little plump compared to the other one.

Also I had a question just for my own knowledge. How does a mother feed her babies? Does she put her beak down its throat, or does the baby put its head in her mouth??
Nita


----------



## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

Hello,

If you you another look at my pics above in the album you will see how the mother feeds the babies- she opens her mouth up real wide and the babies (sometimes one or both) put their beaks in on the side and eat whatever they want because she will gently shake and bring the food up to the back of her throat where the babies beak can eat up the pigeon milk/seed or whatever the parents ate.

Mary


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Nita,

I will get expert advice on the antibiotics for hatchlings.

Treesa


----------



## Nita (May 30, 2004)

Has anyone tried any other system to try to feed the babies that is more like how the mother would do it? Is this why the chick when I put my hand on either side of its head to feed it will frantically move from side to side? I had no luck in getting a foster pigeon. I did however get another white female that I put in the cat carrier and put in the coop to try to lure my birds back in. They did fly to the flight door and then flew off real fast. I'm hopeful they will go back in , then I will shut them in for a while.
Nita


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Nita,

Cynthia said she e-mailed you the "Mac Milk Diet" which is closest to crop milk. Did you get it?

Treesa


----------



## Nita (May 30, 2004)

I did get it. I have to go to the store to get the supplies and couldn't do that until today because today is payday. So this formula that Cynthia gave me is what I should feed from now on or just the next couple of days?.............. On a really good note the other pigeons went back into the coop and are closed in for now.
Nita


----------



## Nita (May 30, 2004)

Cynthia, this might have been in your notes and I missed it but what is 247.6 mg calcium carbonate. How much is that and where do I get calcium carbonate?
Nita

Ps I like the idea of the syringe with vet wrap to be more like the mother. I'll have to try that.


----------



## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Hi Nita
Yes you can add antibiotics to a formula. If you suspect paratyphoid then Baytril is the antibiotic you need. Are you able to get hold of some?


----------



## Nita (May 30, 2004)

I'll call my feed store to see if they have some. They gave me something else but I would have to get up to go see what it is and I'm too lazy right now. The chick is doing well right now.
This is the critical night I think. If I can make it through the next couple of days I think we will be ok.
Nita


----------



## Nita (May 30, 2004)

How many cc's should the baby get at each feeding? I thought someone said 1 cc but it only takes about half of that.
Nita


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Nita,

How many times are you feeding a day? Less than 1cc per feed sounds far too little to me. It isn't possible to say how much an individual pigeon should get, it depend on the crop size, but according to my notes at 4 days old it should be getting 15cc a day...
Can someone else advise here, please? The crop should be 3/4 full after each feed.

Perhaps you could try Stacey's baggie method: Look in the pigeon rescue album at this link:http://community.webshots.com/user/mrenya
Cynthia
l


----------



## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

At two days old it should be taking 2mls (cc) per feed about 5-6 times a day. However it has not had the benefit of crop milk so is going to be severely disadvantaged and I would not expect it to take as much as that at the moment. Just keep trying - a full crop should equal the size of the body mass,(without the head legs and wings).


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Thanks Helen. I will make a note of that for future reference, but would it be possible to provide a little chart with average number of feeds per day and amount to be fed at each feed for each age? I have your notes which say 15 ml at 4 days and 40 ml at 30 days, but I would not know how much to recommend for the intermediate stages and I know that people need to know this. I know that when I rescued my first squab I didn't have a clue about how much I should be feeding her...she was a wise one and started self feeding by the second day.

Cynthia


----------



## Nita (May 30, 2004)

I don't know if I am measureing right. It eats about 15 full drops each time and its crop looks pretty full. My syringe says cc at the top but its a big fat syringe with a little spout that is about 1.5 inches long. When I put what I think it says is a cc into a teaspoon it fills it up. Is that about what a cc is??
It did great through the night. This is its third day so I am praying today goes well.
I can't tell you how much you have all helped me. This sight was a God send.


----------



## Guest (Jun 2, 2004)

I was reading over this and noticed a reference to my baggie feeding method for baby pigeons. I added two pictures to that album today. These two I've got now I've had since they were just 2-3 days old. This adaptation depicted worked well for them. It's evolved into this, I should say.

The pictures show only the baggie and how to handle it, the little pigeon is simply held so that he can stick his face into the hole of my fist and he sucks the food like he would out of the parent's beak. They want to stick their head up for this, so you have to guide them into the hole, but once they get that part understood, there's no stopping them.
http://community.webshots.com/user/mrenya 

I don't have as much trouble getting the food into them as I may be having getting the right kind of food. I'm not sure they're doing well on the handrearing formula and am going to try other suggestions found herein.

Hope the pictures help.
Stacey


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

By my calculations a teaspoon is 3cc and more than sufficient for a 3 day old squab!









This is a link to Nita's photoes: see Pigeons.com album at http://community.webshots.com/user/cyro51 

Stacey, thatnk you for the information and photos! I reckon your baggie method is as near as natural as you can get and combined with the Mac Milk diet should increase success. I will e-mail you the complete Mac Milk diet as I think the version that I sent you was for older squabs not hatchlings.

Cynthia


----------



## Nita (May 30, 2004)

Can pigeouns get air in their crop?? How do you get it out??
Nita


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Nita,

Yes, they can. I copied this from a post of Carl's at exactly this date last year:

If this happens only when feeding, and you can press the air sack and make the air excape through the mouth, I would not worry about this. Some birds just inhale when the are fed, allowing to much air to get into the crop.
If the air sac is full all of the time, and even when you compress the crop, the air remains, then we have another problem.
I hope the situation is as my first suggestion, but if the problem is more, please explain in more detail. 

Cynthia


----------



## Nita (May 30, 2004)

Well, it started getting air in the crop yesterday. I massaged it and some came out. I am afraid to massage too much thinking I might hurt it. It eats really well now. I saw all the pictures of the baggy trick and I thought how can I do that with out the bag. I took a puppy nipple from my pet nursing kit. I have never put a hole in this one so I just tipped it over like a cup and put the food in it. The pigeon loves to put his head in the hole and eats like a pig. I was hoping that the air wasn't being caused by fermenting food.
Nita


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I am so glad that it is feeding itself now! Did you manage to get the enzymes?

If you are preparing fresh feed for every meal and ensuring that the crop is emptying overnight then the food should be all right. 

Cynthia


----------



## Nita (May 30, 2004)

Well it has been eating well and the crop gets empty but the air is getting bigger. And gently massaging it doesn't make it really go down. It seems like it goes down but then it comes back. I Did hear some come back out like a burp last night. It seems like it might be gulping air. Seems ok though except that its crop is big. I'll take a picture after I get back from town to see what you think.
Nita


----------



## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

That sounds great!! 

Hope things are going well for you with the little ones









Mary




> Originally posted by Nita:
> *Well, it started getting air in the crop yesterday. I massaged it and some came out. I am afraid to massage too much thinking I might hurt it. It eats really well now. I saw all the pictures of the baggy trick and I thought how can I do that with out the bag. I took a puppy nipple from my pet nursing kit. I have never put a hole in this one so I just tipped it over like a cup and put the food in it. The pigeon loves to put his head in the hole and eats like a pig. I was hoping that the air wasn't being caused by fermenting food.
> Nita*


----------



## Nita (May 30, 2004)

Just wanted to say that the chick is doing fine. Is eating well but......It still gets so much air in its crop that I have to massage it out or it can't eat. Has any one ever heard of this happening? Could it have gotten a tear that makes it to easy for air to get in? I never tube fed so it wasn't caused by that. I tried to do an internet search under "pigeon with air in its crop" but nothing really came up. It worries me that so much air could cause a problem as it makes its crop very big and tight. It also goes from the crop all the way back behind to its back. 
Nita


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Nita,

I've always used a syringe, and pushed the formula out the top to get any air out before feeding, so I have no experience with this.

Are you tube feeding, bag feeding or what?..and how old is the baby now? Did you get the enzymes for the formula? Anything like enzymes and probiotics are extremely important to help this little one with digestion.

I will bump this up for any advice others might have............

Treesa


----------



## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

I think we should open a new thread - this one is way too long


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

This discussion is continued in the thread titled Baby Pigeon With Air In Crop.

Terry


----------

