# Can siblings become mates?!



## Kiko&Kalani (Aug 10, 2010)

On July 1, I resuced two baby pigeons that were about 8 days old. My intention was to keep them until I could safely release them. I am not allowed to have birds in my condo or feed birds from my balcony or I will get fined, but I couldn't just let them die. At around 20 days old, I started to take them to a park that had other pigeons to let them get used to other pigeons before they could fly. I had originally thougt that they would be ready for release around 45 days old (my first time, so I had no clue). Around 2 months old, they started to moult and I was advised that I should wait until late October to November to do a release. During their first month of life they were always together. During their second they started to get more independent but always stayed close. During the third month, they started to get competitive and get in little tiffs with each other over space and food. They are just days away from 4 months old now and I am regretting wishing for them to be close and loving again! (I'll get to that...)

At my last post in August, Kiko and Kalani were both starting their first moult and I was advised to not try to release them as they really did not seem to be prepared yet. Kiko got out and flew away and was gone for 3 days. I cried and cried. I was sure I had lost him and was so worried. On the third day I was standing on the balcony shaking his food can and all of a sudden there he was flying straight for me. He landed on my head then flew straight inside. I could tell he was stressed, hungry and exhausted. He was so tired but affraid to close his eyes. He would follow me from room to room and if I opened the balcony door he flew in the other direction! I knew then that I couldn't release them before we left for our vacation for a month. So, as we were preparing to leave for a month, we made the decision to take them with us to Texas. We were originally flying but changed our plans to drive from Miami to TX to accomodate them. Friends and family were already starting to think I was a bit off my rocker at this point... So, we bought a large dog crate and off we went on their first 20 hour road trip (two people, two pigeons and a poodle). They did great. Before leaving Miami I ordered 10 x20 foot tent for them to set up in my mom's back yard in Tx. They had a swing set inside, a bird bath and screened windows. It took three days to get the tent up and pigeon proof, but they loved it. We noticed that they started to get nervous at night, so we would bring them into the house at night. Later we discovered that there was an owl in the tree above the tent! Also, there were at least 3 hawks that kept flying above as well during the day. We had thought perhaps that we would release them there (my mom has a huge back yard) in October, but the hawks and owl killed that plan. So back to Miami the 5 of us came. 

We've been home for a couple of weeks now. They have started losing their tail and neck/chest feathers now. All seemed to be going well up until about two days ago. I noticed that Kiko (almost certain he's a male) started picking up stuff and acting like he was trying to nest. I gave them each a box with paper towels stuffed in it. Kiko wanted both boxes and at first would not let Kalani in either one, but today I saw them both in the same box with there heads together! A few hours later I saw Kiko on top of Kalani and Kalani seemed to be OK with the situation!!! I was reading up on mating and I figure worse case I've got about 6 to 10 days before Kalani might start laying eggs!!! OMG, I'm not prepared to be a grandmother 

So now that you know their life story. What do you think I should do???? I am at a complete loss. I love them dearly and want them to be OK. I tried to follow recommendations but I did not see this coming. What now?? 

Hoping for your advise and input,


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

First I have to say how much I enjoyed reading your story. Just shows you how soon these birds can get into your heart. Enough for you to drive all that way instead of flying, how amazing.  Mu husband would have locked me up at this stage if I'd have suggested that !!

I had two 'Oops' babies last year when I missed swapping some eggs my rescues laid.
These two youngsters grew up and hung about together all the time and at about the same age as yours, they too started making a nest and doing all the mating things 
I fact they made about three nests but never got to lay any eggs.
Then all of a sudden they stopped hanging about together and almost acted like strangers. It was the hen that broke away.
The male has now paired up with a little Roller and is currently sitting on dummy eggs whereas the hen has just stayed single, although I'm thinking she maybe starting to fancy her dad. 

I have no idea why this happened and why they fell out but it might just be a growing up stage where they mimic the older birds or are just trying out things.
However I do know of people that have got siblings who have paired up permanently as I too asked the same question when mine did this.
So no hard and fast answer here really, they may stay together but may not.

Are you still planning on releasing them at some point as they do seem to be quite used to being with you now?

Janet


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## superflyer (Sep 13, 2008)

Hi often it seems male and female siblings will pair. Their off spring usually are completely healthy. I recommend keeping your birds and training them for free outdoor flight and getting a pigeon door so they can come in on their own. Your birds are domestic pigeons since you raised them indoors. They will need training to be
on their own completely. Most ferals don't live more than a year and a half in the cities yet pigeons naturally live to be 40 and 45 years old. Watch clips from Share the Blue Sky on YOUTUBE and get some fake eggs to swap in from Jedds.


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## superflyer (Sep 13, 2008)

It's hard to tell the sex of pigeons, usually if there are no eggs it means they are a same sex couple and same sexs couple often have falling outs. After a while hetero couples sometimes have falling outs too after they become disheartened with so many fake eggs not hatching. Some hetero and same sex couples stay together though.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

sorry did not read the long story but to answer the first question,yes siblings can become mates, I have two frillbacks that are and I use them for foster parents, or I just swap out their eggs with fake ones, that is the method of hatch control with pigeons.


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## Kiko&Kalani (Aug 10, 2010)

*I feel a little better...*

knowing that it isn't bad for them to be together. I still really do not know if they are male or female for absolute sure. I would put money on Kiko being a male, but Kalani really could turn out to be either one at this point. I do like the idea of letting them free fly and come home whenever they want to sleep, eat and hangout. Hopefully my condo will not get nasty with me about that. I need to buy some fake eggs next. What size do I need to get. I've never actually seen a pigeon egg. Is it smaller or larger than a chicken egg? Is it better to get wood or plastic? 

I have to say that my husband has been amazing about the whole thing. He didn't even get upset when I started using his bathroom as their "loft"  He talks about releasing them all the time, but I think he secretly loves them too. After all, I wasn't the only one up at 6:30am on that balcony looking for Kiko


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

spirit wings said:


> sorry did not read the long story but to answer the first question,yes siblings can become mates, I have two frillbacks that are and I use them for foster parents, or I just swap out their eggs with fake ones, that is the method of hatch control with pigeons.


Yes, I agree.

I have two homers, brother and sister who were bonded due to their being raised by hand. They have acclimated to life in a coop and I switch out their eggs. They are fine.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Kiko&Kalani said:


> knowing that it isn't bad for them to be together. I still really do not know if they are male or female for absolute sure. I would put money on Kiko being a male, but Kalani really could turn out to be either one at this point. I do like the idea of letting them free fly and come home whenever they want to sleep, eat and hangout. Hopefully my condo will not get nasty with me about that. I need to buy some fake eggs next. What size do I need to get. I've never actually seen a pigeon egg. Is it smaller or larger than a chicken egg? Is it better to get wood or plastic?
> 
> I have to say that my husband has been amazing about the whole thing. He didn't even get upset when I started using his bathroom as their "loft"  He talks about releasing them all the time, but I think he secretly loves them too. After all, I wasn't the only one up at 6:30am on that balcony looking for Kiko


you can use plastic or wood, you can look at craft stores for wood ones the size of a small chicken's egg or you can find them at pigeon supply sites on line, here is one. http://www.nepigeonsupplies.com/


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## Kiko&Kalani (Aug 10, 2010)

*I posted pics*

of Kiko and Kalani in the pets discussion. They will be 4 months old tomorrow.


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## Pigeonlove (May 6, 2008)

I have a pair of twins who laid eggs. I would go outside in the eveing and neither one would be sitting on the eggs so I didn't give it much thought. Then one day one egg hatched. OOPS! They did a great job with "Ruffles". But while Cola (Daddy) was finishing raising Ruffles, Pepsi (Mommy) dumped Cola for his (and her) younger brother Zebra. Go figure. Now they have tried taking over their Parents (Gary and Larri)'s nest box. I had to put a divider in to keep them from fighting constantly. Pepsi has laid some eggs with Zebra, but I haven't let them hatch. I don't need that many incest babies!! Now Cola is trying to shack up with his own baby, Ruffles.


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## Kiko&Kalani (Aug 10, 2010)

Holy smokes that's one crazy family tree they have going! At this point I guess I would rather have Kiko and kalani pair up and use dummy eggs than have them fly off and return with mates. I hope to get away with two, I doubt I could get away with more. 

Do your paired birds fight with each other? Sometimes it's hard to tell if they are making the same nest or fighting over it. Earlier today, it looked like Kiko was actually not letting Kalani get out of the "nest". He stood in front of the box and when Kalani tried to come out he chased her back inside. Kalani would attack Kiko and so I would put my hand inside the box to seperate them and they would both attack me. Just when I think I am going to have to seperate them, I find them in the box kissing and softly cooing. Did you experience any of this with yours?


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