# Missing birds - any advice?



## Limow (Jul 3, 2011)

Hi,

Well as I approach the end of week 2 of my dovecote netting removed (it was on for 8 weeks) it would appear that I have now lost three birds (one missing since last night and one gone missing this afternoon). I imagine I must have a hawk around here Any advice on how to avoid this - particularly anyone with a dovecote in UK?

Thanks in anticipation.


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Did you start with 30-45 day old birds??
They may have been too strong on the wing.
Have you talked with other Pigeon flyers about settleing birds????????
Or were they JUST FEATHER MERCHANTS?--They will make you beleive WATER RUNS UP HILL.


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## Limow (Jul 3, 2011)

Some of the pairs were under three months and some about 1 year. I netted them in for 8 weeks, not sure what else I could have done. They tend to only fly from the roof of the house to the dovecote. Feather merchants??! What do you mean too strong on the wing?


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

O K members--Someone tell Limow he NEEDs to learn more about Doves/Pigeons.
He does not understand MY ANSWER.
Sorry I even tried to help him.


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## Limow (Jul 3, 2011)

Bloody hell you're rude!
If someone asks for advice, how about offering it to them rather than being so damned irascible. 
I thought people were supposed to mellow with age?
I'm on a forum asking for advice and you haven't actually tried to help, you asked a question which I answered and then you proceeded to talk over my head.
How about you read my question properly for a start before diving in with an unhelpful and rude response!


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

I enjoy being RUDE. So just delete my answer.
Your birds were "over" 30-45 days old.
You said the pairs were 3 months old--were they mated??????? sounds kinda young to be mated.
Did you let them out Very HUNGRY?
You Now know you did something wrong--Make some notes --What NOT to try Again.


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## Limow (Jul 3, 2011)

You shouldn't enjoy being rude, especially not when someone is upset - but anyway, I do appreciate your previous response because I have since read up on being strong on the wing, an expression I hadn't heard before or read on here when I've visited this forum in the past (I've since googled it and it brought up discussions posted here).
I have actually followed the advice that is provided in the UK on getting doves for a dovecote where they are free to come and go as they please. A lot of people buy dovecotes and purchase doves (fantails or white homing pigeons) of any age, and net them in for up to 8 weeks. Some advice says you can do it for less. Ideally the birds mate and rear young whilst under the net and therefore one wants sexually active birds for that. However, on here I was advised to buy very young birds. Since the advice was conflicting, I did both. I bought two pairs of doves from someone local to me - he thought one pair were 6 weeks and one pair 8 weeks (siblings that had switched partners) but he has loads of birds living free in outbuildings, so probably hard for him to be exact. He wouldn't sell younger birds. After 8 weeks of being under the net, they are definitely paired up and building nests - so I would imagine were a bit older than he thought. I also bought from a fancier a pair of nuns (yes, mistake but he said they'd be ok after the netting in period!) who were an established pair and also building a nest and a pair of fantails. I released the net at night, didn't feed them before hand and they are trained to a bell, so they know when they get food. This might sound like hogwash to you, but this is the advice that's given regarding keeping birds free in a dovecote which is obviously very different to keeping birds in a loft. The birds were not great at flying at first but after a day or two had mastered flying from roof of house to dovecote. Only the four youngsters have been seen going for a good fly around and even then, it's not for long. I didn't set out to make mistakes, I did do research and I did ask for advice - I'm not completely wet behind the ears and actually, getting good advice is easier said than done. Given that I'm talking about dovecotes here, what should I have done differently?


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Thanks Limow--But no need to apoologize.
Your not the FIRST to "call/say" I'm RUDE.
I only try to post the truth [ in my mind].
Your post did not give me much info about how much you knew about pigeons.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

Limow said:


> You shouldn't enjoy being rude, especially not when someone is upset - but anyway, I do appreciate your previous response because I have since read up on being strong on the wing, an expression I hadn't heard before or read on here when I've visited this forum in the past (I've since googled it and it brought up discussions posted here).
> I have actually followed the advice that is provided in the UK on getting doves for a dovecote where they are free to come and go as they please. A lot of people buy dovecotes and purchase doves (fantails or white homing pigeons) of any age, and net them in for up to 8 weeks. Some advice says you can do it for less. Ideally the birds mate and rear young whilst under the net and therefore one wants sexually active birds for that. However, on here I was advised to buy very young birds. Since the advice was conflicting, I did both. I bought two pairs of doves from someone local to me - he thought one pair were 6 weeks and one pair 8 weeks (siblings that had switched partners) but he has loads of birds living free in outbuildings, so probably hard for him to be exact. He wouldn't sell younger birds. After 8 weeks of being under the net, they are definitely paired up and building nests - so I would imagine were a bit older than he thought. I also bought from a fancier a pair of nuns (yes, mistake but he said they'd be ok after the netting in period!) who were an established pair and also building a nest and a pair of fantails. I released the net at night, didn't feed them before hand and they are trained to a bell, so they know when they get food. This might sound like hogwash to you, but this is the advice that's given regarding keeping birds free in a dovecote which is obviously very different to keeping birds in a loft. The birds were not great at flying at first but after a day or two had mastered flying from roof of house to dovecote. Only the four youngsters have been seen going for a good fly around and even then, it's not for long. I didn't set out to make mistakes, I did do research and I did ask for advice - I'm not completely wet behind the ears and actually, getting good advice is easier said than done. Given that I'm talking about dovecotes here, what should I have done differently?


Did Chief ever come back? Are the ones that are missing your fancies, or are they the white homers? If it's the homers, I wouldn't be too worried. They could be out exploring, and will be back. Do you use some sort of call when you feed them?


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## Limow (Jul 3, 2011)

Hi, no Chief didn't come back, his partner hasn't been seen since last night and this afternoon the white fantail disappeared. I guess I just have to brace myself for the black fantail to go now too The nuns were a risk, but I did think the fantails would be ok.
I ring some very jingly bells on every time I feed them and they know this means food and when they were under the net, got them pretty excited, although it's possible I've been overfeeding them.
One bit of good news though is that the bird born here in the spring (I posted about this in the summer) has been visiting and spending time with my birds, eating with them and sitting on the roof with them - I will download a photo to show you.


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## Limow (Jul 3, 2011)

Here's the youngster before the nun and white fantail vanished.
His plumage has changed hugely - he has become very spotty in the past month. He's almost 6 months now.


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## kalel (Oct 14, 2008)

nice birds. hope they return. they may have just got lost or (hopefully not) taken by a predator. in the UK sparrowhawks (and peregrines) if you have any nearby will take pigeons.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

well I think you are doing very well.. a few missing is not unusual with a dovecote because you don't have much or any control on when they are let out, you may be surpirzed that a few may return, but if you do keep with the garden fantails which are homing pigeon crosses or just the homing pigeon breed they should stay well for you.. predators are going to be around if they know the birds are...so you can not do anything about that.. having a loft you can lock the birds in helps with losses..a dovecote is more like having or feeding ferals that come and go as they please so you kind of have to take things as they happen. your birds are lovely.


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## loftkeeper (Sep 21, 2010)

What Is That By The Tree A Cat ? Could Be The Problem Birds Not Use To It And Scareing Them Or Eating Them.


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## horseart4u (Jun 16, 2011)

its a pig statue


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

horseart4u said:


> its a pig statue


I thought it was something typically British like a badger!


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## Limow (Jul 3, 2011)

I'm thinking 'what cat?' - yes, pig statue, ha! It's a bit of a mess out there at the mo, we've got a water feature but it keeps leaking so it looks like a building site until we fix the leak and complete the landscaping.

Anyway, they definitely haven't been had by a cat. I'm beginning to think they just flew off. I'm not sure what's worse, the prospect of them being chased off and eaten by a hawk or flying off and getting lost 

Spirit Wings, thank you for your encouraging message. I was warned that I would have losses and not to get attached (impossible I'm afraid, I spent so much time with them during the netting in period) and of course having a dovecote makes them (and my heart!) vulnerable, but after they didn't fly away in the first week, I thought the only risk might be a hawk. It's particularly gutting because I'm not going to be netting new birds in (obviously, because then I'd have to net them all in again) so I'm really left now with the plain pigeons when I was also hoping the dovecote would fill up with fantails too. I wouldn't be so attached to youngsters born here as it would be more like feeding ferals, but my original 8 were a bit special.

So, back to my original question - apart from locking the birds up (which I can't do) is there anything else? Do statues of large owls have any effect? CD's hanging on strings? Anyone tried any of these measures with success or tried something else? Maybe a bigger pig statue


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

you can try those things and move them around so they don't get used to them... but a hungry hawk is pretty hard to stop because you can't harm them. the thing I can do HERE with my birds is lock them up for a week or two untill hawk moves on.. sorry there is just not much that can be done if they are out and about.


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## Limow (Jul 3, 2011)

Another bird gone missing today

None of us has seen or heard a hawk. Would it leave evidence? Feathers? Do they carry them off usually? 

Is a hawk likely to move on?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Limow said:


> Another bird gone missing today
> 
> None of us has seen or heard a hawk. Would it leave evidence? Feathers? Do they carry them off usually?
> 
> Is a hawk likely to move on?


If you could get an easy meal would you move on.. they do down them and then depending on the hawk's size they do try to drag them off...or eat them right where they landed them..and yes there would be feathers. were you not warned about the birds of prey before you got the birds?... other reason they can be off is they found a place to eat seeds or they went too far and got lost.. that is why homing pigeons would work well..they can fly miles and still know how to return.


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## Limow (Jul 3, 2011)

Hi

In your previous email you said to lock them up until the hawk moved on, hence my querying whether it actually would move on or not.

Of course I know that hawks are a predator and to expect some losses, but we saw our first ever hawk in the distance in the summer and haven't seen any since, nor heard them. Their cry was unmistakable in the summer. If I thought I had one literally flying over my house every day then I wouldn't have gotten the birds, but since we'd never seen one before we got the birds and we've lived here almost three years, it didn't appear to be a problem. It is rare to see birds of prey in the UK, especially in your garden. The only time I see them is hovering over motorways and that's usually Red Kites.

The bird that is missing today is one of the homing pigeons, so maybe it will come back...

I can only imagine that if the problem is a hawk, it is swooping down and plucking them off the roof of the house and carrying them away. We have a very large area of roof that is incredibly high so once up there, the birds are pretty exposed. But no evidence of any attacks (although there could be evidence on the flat roof areas where they sit) but certainly nothing showing on the ground. It really is as if they are disappearing into thin air. Everything was fine in the first week, it is this week that's been the problem. When they were netted in we never saw a hawk nearby or heard one - it's weird.

I follow the blog of someone in my county who has lots of doves and yes, they have had the odd loss and so too have both the people who I bought my birds from, but my experience seems pretty extreme.

It's very upsetting and disheartening.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Limow said:


> Hi
> 
> In your previous email you said to lock them up until the hawk moved on, hence my querying whether it actually would move on or not.
> 
> ...


yes it really does depend on where you live on how thick the hawks are... the thing is you may not of seen them before..but coops, lofts and cotes attract them.. esp flying birds..and they don't announce their presents when hunting. If hawks there are few and far between then perhaps the birds just are roaming and eating elsewhere just as other feral types would do..and may be back to visit.


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## Limow (Jul 3, 2011)

Hi,

Here's a site that produces bird deterrents - some of you may find it interesting, http://www.birdstop.co.uk/wind_action_owl_decoy.asp


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