# Green diarrhea - any advice?



## Anouk (Jul 20, 2008)

Hi everyone,
I'm new to this forum, and a first-time pigeon rescuer. I'm really hoping someone might be able to give me some advice about a baby pigeon I'm looking after. I found him under a railway underpass two days ago (had to dodge the traffic to collect him) and i took him to a specialist bird vet yeterday. Apparently he has a minor fracture in one wing, which the vet has strapped up very neatly, but didn't have any other obvious problems apart from being very skinny. She wormed him and treated him for major pigeon diseases, except coccidia, which she says she will do next week because she didn't want to stress his system with too many meds in one go. He is fully fledged but still has some baby feathers on his head and the big baby beak, and he's littler than an adult. I've been syringe feeding him a granivore rearing mix which the vet gave me, and also offering him some soaked pigeon seed to peck at. I'm not having too much trouble with the feeding, but he's still having very watery dark green diarrhea. He's interested in the seeds but doesn't seem good at eating them yet, but i have also found some undigested ones in the diarrhea. I rang the vet and the nurse said not to panic and to give him a couple more days to settle in and adjust to the food, but i just wanted check with you, as you all seem so knowledgable. Is there anything I should supplement his feed with? He's so skinny already and I'm worried that he's not digesting properly. Any advice would be wonderful!
Thanks so much!


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

First, where are you just in case we've got resources in your area; and, second, can you take and post a picture of the bird and the diarrhea? There's often a reason such a nestling got into this mess in the first place.

Pidgey


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

What exactly did she treat the bird for besides worms? Coccidia can and usually does, cause green runny poopies. Worms can cause the undigested seeds to appear in the poop too (I think)...........I know that other members recommend a product called Nutrical to help put on weight. You could also and should, add some probiotics to the formula. You can even use plain unflavored yogurt. Apple Cider Vinegar added to the formula would be good for him too. 
Others will be along to give you some advice.


----------



## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

I'm thinking the green poop is because he has not had enough to eat. How much food do you give him and how often? He probably has not had too much to eat before you found him and his system is all out of whack. Renee mentioned giving him yogurt. We use this regularly for any babies we get in and it helps their digestive systems. We use about 1/4 to 1/2 tsp of plain yogurt.

BTW, welcome to the forum and thank you so much for the rescue of this baby and getting him to a vet.


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Lady Tarheel said:


> *I'm thinking the green poop is because he has not had enough to eat.* How much food do you give him and how often? He probably has not had too much to eat before you found him and his system is all out of whack. Renee mentioned giving him yogurt. We use this regularly for any babies we get in and it helps their digestive systems. We use about 1/4 to 1/2 tsp of plain yogurt.
> 
> BTW, welcome to the forum and thank you so much for the rescue of this baby and getting him to a vet.


That's what I thought too, but what about the undigested seeds in the poop? I'm not sure about what causes that.


----------



## Anouk (Jul 20, 2008)

Thanks so much everyone - it's wonderful to have so much help! I'm in Australia and so far haven't located any pigeon rescuers in my area - I'm afraid people aren't very sympathetic about non-native birds over here. I'm feeding him three meals a day at the moment, about 3mls each meal of the powdered granivore rearing mix mixed with water to make a batter-like consistency. Does that sound like enough? The bird vet says is the best thing for young pigeons. I've just inquired about the probiotic and I'm going to go and pick some up this afternoon. I know the vet treated him for canker and worms, but I'm afraid I can't remember what the other thing was - there were two liquids and a tablet involved, and she's also given a me a liquid calcium supplement to help his wing heal. I've attached a picture of some of his droppings - not sure how well the colour comes through as I'm just using the camera on my computer - the little bit of pink you can see in the background isn't part of the dropping, it's a hole in the paper towel. Basically the droppings are a very bright, darkish green, with some white as well. Will try to get a picture of him to post later on. Thanks again for your help!


----------



## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Paratyphoid or Coccidiosis, maybe*

But maybe not. Sounds like food is going through too fast and may well be the result of disease but maybe not as well.

It would be simplest to just treat for the diseases and put those worries aside. Sulpha drugs treat both of the above mentioned diseases. It is recommended to treat for 14 days for Paratyphoid and would be a good idea as you can't be sure.

If the bird has grit, his gizzard should grind all seed. There can be other situations that cause green stools but I'm leaning toward the ones that I mentioned. Let's see what the others have to say as well.

There is plenty of help here and you should be put onto the right track soon.

Bill


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

3 mls isn't enough food at all. Maggie may be right..........he's hungry. I honestly don't know how much to tell you to feed him, but I know that what he's getting isn't enough. Let me go check something......I'll be back.


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Do you have a way of weighing him? Formulas are difficult to predict in terms of calories and that definitely doesn't sound like enough. You can figure that he probably needs about 7 to 9 flat teaspoons of dry powder per day at this point. Each dry teaspoon is about 5 mL of powder if that's how you're going to measure it. You might be giving too much water, too.

Can you post a picture of the food before it's been mixed with water?

Pidgey


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Go read this thread. According to it, 40 mls would be normal. Maybe since you're little guy is so thin, 40 mls is too much.....maybe 25 mls and see how he does. 

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=9918


----------



## Anouk (Jul 20, 2008)

Oh dear - I feel terrible if I've been starving him! I just ran downstairs and gave him another feed. At the moment he weighs about 187 grams, and I'm going to start weighing him everyday - how quickly should he gain weight? I forgot to mention that he didn't have the green diarrhea when I first found him - it started yesterday morning, and before that point his droppings looked pretty normal, so his parents must have been feeding him almost until I found him. The vet said he wouldn't be weaned yet (he probably fell out of the nest, and straight onto the road) so he may never have eaten seeds before. I'm making the rearing mix mixture as thick as it can be while still able to get out of the syringe - it's pretty much like pancake batter. Is this ok? Here's the nutritional information for the rearing mix:

Ground cereals and vegetables. Whey protein, soy protein, maltodextin, lysine, methionine, vegetable oils, omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids, vitamins A, B1, B2, B6, B12, C, D3, E, K, nicotinamide, pantothenic acid, biotin, folic acid, choline, inositol, calcium, phosphorus, potassium, sodium, magnesium, zinc, iron, manganese, copper, iodine, selenium.

Min Crude Protein	22% 
Min Crude Fat	8% 
Max Fibre	5% 
Max Salt	0.8% 

Am heading off now on a propbiotic mission - will keep you posted. Thanks again!


----------



## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

Yes the bird had been starving so i suggest you do the following for a week.

1) dog food kibble - smaller type for small breed puppy, these are very energy dense and i have worked wonders for me

2) Mixed seed is fine but you also need to add grit as pigeons need grit to digest the seeds. They act like a grinder. Grit is small stones but i use sea sand, use the bigger particles.

3) chicken feed, they also put weight fast.


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

At 187, he's pretty light. There's a complex formula for figuring out their daily requirements and I won't go into that, but he figures out to be about where I'd told you: 7 to 9 level dry teaspoons per day of your powder there. That will probably give him a lot more poop and help him out.

He could easily be sick of something, too, and we'll just have to keep a close watch although your vet should be able to handle that part.

Pidgey


----------



## Anouk (Jul 20, 2008)

Forgot to ask - how many feeds can he have a day? If I'm upping the quantity a lot it might be easier to add a feed or two, rather than massively upping the volume of each feed. What do you think? Will definitely try the kibble too - I have three dogs so this is easy. Thanks again!


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

He'll eat just about as many times as you want to feed him. Of course, there's a limit. I usually feed young ones like that three times per day, maybe 20 to 30 mL per meal, water and all. Others feed them more often (~5x/day) and less at a time.

Pidgey


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

*Great Save!*

I think it's great that you found a vet that would see the little guy. Would you mind sharing her name, phone and address for our resource directory? We would really apprecaite it.


----------



## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Anouk said:


> Forgot to ask - *how many feeds can he have a day*?
> 
> * *If I'm upping the quantity a lot* it might be easier to add a feed or two, rather than massively upping the volume of each feed. What do you think? Will definitely try the kibble too - I have three dogs so this is easy. Thanks again!





Pidgey said:


> He'll eat just about as many times as you want to feed him. Of course, there's a limit.
> *I usually feed young ones like that three times per day*, maybe 20 to 30 mL per meal, water and all. Others feed them more often (~5x/day) and less at a time.
> 
> Pidgey


Welcome to Pigeon Talk & thank you for helping this little guy.

Feeding three times a day is good for that age of pigeon. 
* What you *DON'T* want to do is *OVER FEED* him.

Please keep us posted on how things are coming along.

Cindy


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Please make sure his crop is empty before each feeding, and add the probiotics to the formula.


----------



## Anouk (Jul 20, 2008)

You are all lifesavers (possibly quite literally from the pigeon's point of view)! I have increased his feed considerably, and in the space of just twelve hours the diarrhea is almost gone. I got some probiotic from my vet and added that in, and I also tried him on a few little pieces of soaked kibble, which I must say are delightfully easy to feed after the syringing! I'm terrified of getting the formula in his trachea by mistake, but I'm persisting with it nonetheless. I have pet chickens who I have had to medicate withh syringes in the past, but they're bigger and it's much easier to see what's happening in their mouths. Thanks also for the advice about overfeeding, Cindy - I think it would be very easy to get carried away, so I'm being careful. I still can't believe the vet nurse (who gave me the original instructions on how much to feed) could have got the quantities so wrong. I knew i was supposed to check for a full crop after feeding him, but i couldn't even find his crop until today, and no wonder when I was only giving him 3mls at each feed. I'm so glad I got in touch with all of you! I will try to post a picture of him tomorrow. Oh, and my bird vet is called Pat Macwhirter, and she works at the Highbury Vet Clinic in Burwood, Melbourne. The phone number is 03 9808 9011. She's an excellent vet, and really great about helping with wild birds - doesn't give any funny looks when you turn up with a very grubby feral pigeon. 
Thanks again for all your help - I'll give another update on him tomorrow.


----------



## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Anouk, glad to read his poops are looking better. The main thing you need to be careful of is overfeeding which can cause the crop to be impacted. The formula you described seems to be a little too thick so I would dilute it a bit more. Guessing at his age, we would be feeding one his age about 15 - 20 cc every 3-4 hours but I always give a little less I think than most people do simply because I worry about the crop. I always check the crop after each feeding and make sure it is soft and plump and empty at the next feeding.

They gain weight rapidly. You may weigh him tomorrow and he could be up to 225 grams. At a "guesstimate" I think he should probably gain at least 10 grams a day but just don't know for sure. As long as he is gaining and not losing and his poops look good I wouldn't worry.


----------



## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Anouk said:


> *Thanks also for the advice about overfeeding, Cindy - I think it would be very easy to get carried away, so I'm being careful. *
> 
> Thanks again for all your help - I'll give another update on him tomorrow.


You're most welcome. 

Appreciate the update & so glad your little feathered friend seems to be doing better. 

Something you might want to try to help him learn to become self feeding is to place some seeds on a towel & pick at them up with your thumb & index finger, without actually picking them up. Pijjies are curious & he will begin to mimic you & start picking them up. 

Cindy


----------



## Anouk (Jul 20, 2008)

Well, the diarrhea has completely gone, and he weighed 208 grams before his first feed this morning. I'm so relieved! I also felt his crop very carefuly to make sure I hadn't overfed him and it was nice and soft and flat. I've always liked pigeons but never realized quite how endearing they are. Last night after his last feed he clambered up my chest and nestled down on my shoulder (I was sitting on the couch so there wasn't any chance of crash landings). He makes the most adorable little sounds as well. I had to wash his feet yesterday because they were all caked up with poo (he was sitting on a small mountain of poo under the railway underpass when I found him) and he didn't mind at all. He has a lot more in his feathers as well, but I think I'll wait until he's a bit more settled before I try to deal with that. With regard to feeding him the seed, he's actually already interested in it, but I doubt he has any grit in his crop yet. Should I just leave him a little dish of grit to peck at as well? I have some already for my hens, but I'm wondering if it might be a little coarse for him to start with. I'll keep you posted on his progress - it's so satisfying to see him improving!


----------



## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Chicken grit is too coarse for him*

Pigeons need a smaller grit that is made for them. It is loaded with many minerals and essentials for them. In a pinch, he could eat grit for small chicks or even pick pebbles out of sand, it's better than nothing but until he eats seed, he doesn't really need it. 

Bill


----------

