# bad leg problem, foot/leg fell off! NEED ADVICE!!



## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

ok, found one with a bad lookin' leg. caught him, brought him home and one foot was caught and luckily not too tight so that foot is fine.
the other leg was all shrivelled up like a dead twig or something. further examination looked like it must have been a string injury far up on leg, string was gone. while cutting feathers and handling leg, it was hanging by the shrivelled up bone ONLY. well, the leg fell off in my hand. it was pretty gross.
looks like it broke off at lower end of tibiotarsus and fibula. there is no "exposed" leg left, only the fleshy covered part. there is still a tiny bit of bone exposed.
wondering, i feel HORRIBLE keeping him/her overnight in case of babies. i'm SO torn as to whether i should release or not. he/she seemed to be getting along fine, getting to the food ok outside, and havent seen this one in my flock before either. what do you guys do during the busier baby times to be sure the babies are not starving by keeping injured mom/pop away? well, i guess you can never know, but i feel guilty anyways.
i am posting pics tomorrow. the poos are foresty green, but more like splattered slime. has the white portion mixed in, like a tye-dye shirt.


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Gee, Moxie, I've heard of charging an arm and a leg before -- but you collected?  I know, not funny, but 

It must have been a stunner to have that poor pidgie lose his foot in your hands. I think you've done the right thing by keeping him in because with that missing leg, it's pretty hard to compete. It won't do any babies good if Mom/Dad can't compete for food or are easier to catch because of a leg problem. 

I have a one-legged finch, Flit, and it does okay, but its one remaining leg probably doesn't have to bear as much weight (proportionally) as does your new visitor. We've put in special adaptations to help ease the strain, but life is still harder for Flit than the average two-legged bird. 

At the least you'll probably need to let the stump heal up some since there's still bare bone showing. Since it's now missing the entire foot and bottom of the leg, it won't be able to compete as well as it could even with its dead "peg leg".


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

I'd say hang onto him/her for a while anyway...


See about their Leg issues and general health...get them onto some good chow and see how the Poops do then...possibly they have some systemic low-grade infeciton from their Leg issues.

If this Bird is semi-starving, chances are it has no Babys to be feeding right now.

I'd say chances are really, that with this Leg issue, it has no Babys to be feeding right now...


If they possibly have Babys, their mate can manage for a few days or a week or so just fine.

Parent Pigeons whose Babys have pipped have very typical signs about their mouths from feeding their Babys...if one studied this closely enough, one could probably guess the age of a Pigeon's Babys by how the parent's mouth looks...usually damp at the corners, lips at the corner more puffy or prominent, and slightly strained or flushed, once the Babys are past a week or so old...


But regardless, this one is best evaluated for them to survive, which for now is more important than possible Babys they might have somewhere, since if this one does not survive, those babys will be premenently without this parent, instead of only a business-week's worth.


Good luck..!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Moxie,

That is one pigeon that will really need rehoming! And there is a danger that the exposed bone will lead to infection.

I have one one-legged pigeon (carved off by a vet) and she was okay for a long time, but now she has difficulty hopping and flying, she has sores on her wings and stays in her nest box most of the time. John and I put her in the sunshine in a cage and put her food and water in her nesting box.

Cynthia


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

how old is your pigeon Cynthia?
you know, when i was checking him/her out last night her beak seemed unusually crusty around the edges. nothing really HUGE, but like puffed a bit at the corners of mouth/beak, does that mean it has babies?
i thoght if the Dad dissapeared, the Mom would take over, but if the Mom dissapeared, the Dad would ditch the babies?


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

ok, i'm uploadingpics now. closer look today revealed a lot of yellow flesh at the area of severed leg, infection? should i be giving antibiotics, what kind?yellow must mean infection, yes?


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

hey, follow this link. the first 4 pics are this pigeon, the others are the cute black and white squeaker i had a few weeks ago.
notice the yellow in he pics. also, i took about 30 pics and only a FEW came out, and even then barely, so sorry if it's bad.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Ouch, poor bird.

The youngsters look great. Adorable little babies.

Reti


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

Do you think the bird's leg could be infected and needs antibiotics?


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

You could put some neosporin on the wound. 
You cannot release him until the bone is covered by skin

Reti


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Moxie,

If you have Clavamox give her a course of that. The yellow patches in foot injuries are infection. She is also vulnerable to getting a bone infection, the bone needs to be filed down and the skin stitched over it.

I doubt that he or she was looking after babies, when they have foot or leg problems they tend to break the eggs accidentally.

I don't know how old my Harry is, she was an adult when I got her. I think I have had her for 4 or 5 years. But she wouldn't last a day if I released her now.

I really don't think she will be suitable for release.


Cynthia


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

are you saying she's unreleasable? oh man, what did i get myself into! well, i'll figure that all out later. know anyone adopting?
well, let's get her through this first. how the heck am i going to stitch the leg? when is that supposed to happen? i have been putting neosporin on it. so, she's unreleasable? what about all the one legged pigeons you see in the wild? you think they dont live long with just one leg, they dont adapt well? i guess i can see that. but, man, what the heck am i gonna do with her?
i dont know if i have Clavamox. i'll list what i have, Sabina gave me some meds, so i dont know if any of these will work instead. let me know if they will?

Enroxil (generic baytril) 7.5 mg
Augmentin (amoxicillin + clavulanic acid) 875/125 mg
cephalexin 500 mg
flagyl 250 mg, and some 500 mg ( i have a bunch of Flagyl if anyone needs some?)
appertex 2,5 mg (it has a comma inbetween the 2 and 5, dont know what that means?? is 2,5 the same as 2.5mg)
spartix 10 mg
and a TINY bit of liquid baytril, baytril 10%

so, if any of these work, i need to know the dose and all that jazz. i'm clueless when it comes to all that stuff!


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

will any of these meds listed above work? what other signs of illness should i be looking for?


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

ok so clavamox is the same as augmentin, so you do have it. i'll check on the dose and get back to you. and just so you know, metronidazole is the generic name for flagyl.
appertex is 2.5 mg.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Use the augmentin.

Reti


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

The amount of augmentin/clavamox for an adult pigeon is 37.5mg twice a day. Which would mean dividing that tablet into 23, which is not feasible. So if you crush half a tablet in 10 ml of water, then you would give 0.9 ml twice a day. (The dosing is based on the 875 mg of amoxicillin not the 125mg of clavulanic acid.)


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

I have a one-legged finch and I can tell that everything is harder for him. Flit is easy to tell apart from Flutter because his feathers aren't as neat and he has a "lean". He flies beautifully and can cling just as well as his cage mate, but that's not how finches live their lives. They hop and walk a lot and Flit can do neither. 
He can't preen as well because he has no second leg to switch off to, he would probably never be able to mate or have a family because of his footicap, he has to lean on things when he needs to rest that leg -- he expends more energy just being alive. We've made adaptations with wider perches, shallower food and water dishes, a younger finch friend (Flutter) to lean against at night, forked branches that can take some of his body weight when he's resting, but the adaptations cannot replace a leg. What will we do if he gets an infection in his one foot? I don't even want to go there. I don't think Flit will live as long as Flutter, just because I think missing the leg imposes a serious tax on the whole body. My son rescued Flit from (I'm sure) a cull and we are priviledged to care for him as long as he lives.

I don't think a bird with a missing leg will last long in the wild. They just can't compete at the same level as a bird with both legs. Boston is tough enough for fully capable pidgies. Maybe you were meant to find this bird. Depending on how far up the leg is gone, there are plenty of assists that can help, but I think you have a permenant bird.


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Sabina, you may be a bit off in your instructions. If Moxie dissolves a 1000mg Clavamox tablet into 10mL of water, she will end up with a concentration of 100mg of pure medicine to each 1cc (mL) of mixed solution. If she does at .90cc (90mg of pure med) twice a day, she will end up dosing 180mg of Clavamox a day, instead of the 75mg you suggested she dose.

All the best,

Ron

If she dissolves the 1000mg tablet into 20mL of fluids and doses at .75cc this will be the dose you are instructing her to give. I say fluids because she may be a little better off if she uses say 10cc of water and 10cc of syrup, say Light Karo Syrup, to better suspend the medicine in solution, first dissolving the med into the water, then adding the syrup.


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Hi Ron,
I said to dissolve half a tablet, so 437 mg in 10 ml would be about 43 mg in each ml. Does that sound better?


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Sabina, I will have to clean my reading glasses, I missed the half part somehow, sorry about that. If the tablet is 1000mg and is divided in half that would be 500mg of Clavamox in the half. This would work out to 50mg per 1cc so she could dose at .80cc and be good to go.

All the best,

Ron


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

i'm not allowed to have a permanent bird. funny enough, i'm not supposed to have pets at ALL! my roommate says as long as the birds leave, they arent pets, and thats all i get. considering he is risking his apartment just for my cat, i have to respect that. and i push it far enough as it is, by having too many darn pigeons in here on a temporary basis! no pets allowed in this building, landlords orders. he actually booted his best tenant, had been here for like 10 years, took care of all sorts of stuff here, for getting one of those tiny dogs.
i just feel real horrible helping this guy out to not have anywhere for him to go. i guess i have some time to figure it out, but if you know anyone adopting birds let me know.


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Well, Moxie, first you get him better and then we'll cross that bridge. We have blind pidgies, one-winged pidgies, one-beaked pidgies, stargazers so I'm sure there's a place for yours.


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

There are plenty of people with large aviaries on the forum willing to adopt birds, that is not an issue at all. When it gets to that point, the pigeon will have a home, don't worry!


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

ok, how many days should i be giving him meds?


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

xxmoxiexx said:


> ok, how many days should i be giving him meds?



If you suture the stump, a week should be ok. If you leave it open to heal itself, you give the antibiotic until the wound is healed and completely covered by skin, if that happens.

Reti


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

Reti, suture the stump myself? i'm a LOT hesitant to do that!


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

xxmoxiexx said:


> Reti, suture the stump myself? i'm a LOT hesitant to do that!


What does it look like now? Do you see any improvement? Is any skin healing over?

Reti


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Unie's had that toe bone sticking out for four years now. They don't grow skin over them--they just seal up on the inside.

Pidgey


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

well, most bone gone. i think the string or whatever seemed to tie the leg off might of done most of the job, unfortunely.
the leg still has yellow at the end. the bone that is sticking out is brown, and very little of it. i can upload more pics tomorrow. the bone isnt sticking far out, but it is a little indented there, so i dont think the skin is going to grow over it.
also, just today he started making sounds like a seal or something. not cooing, but grunting like a seal. what the heck is that? i've heard cooing, growling, but not this, is that normal?
oh, and this is the first bird i've had that doesnt fight me bad. he'll actually let me hold him, for a bit anyways. i've done everything REAL slow around him, so not to alarm him when giving him meds and grabbing him.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

xxmoxiexx said:


> well, most bone gone. i think the string or whatever seemed to tie the leg off might of done most of the job, unfortunely.
> the leg still has yellow at the end. the bone that is sticking out is brown, and very little of it. i can upload more pics tomorrow. the bone isnt sticking far out, but it is a little indented there, so i dont think the skin is going to grow over it.
> *also, just today he started making sounds like a seal or something. not cooing, but grunting like a seal. what the heck is that? i've heard cooing, growling, but not this, is that normal?*
> oh, and this is the first bird i've had that doesnt fight me bad. he'll actually let me hold him, for a bit anyways. i've done everything REAL slow around him, so not to alarm him when giving him meds and grabbing him.


Sounds like a "croaker" to me. Squeaks went through the same thing. I found him as a "squeaker." One day, he started to sound like he had a frog in his throat. I was concerned that he was coming down with something. Nope, just going through a "croaker" stage. Since he didn't like me at the time, he croaked a LOT until he finally got his "adult" voice.

He also didn't like the fact that I would really crack up laughing when I heard him croaking! Another reason he didn't like me...at first!


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Moxie, he is in his teenage years - it doesn't last long but they sound pretty funny.


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

ok, update, he's doing well, getting used to one leg, and sounds like a toad still!
question, am i supposed to be alternating antibiotics with probiotics? and if so, what type or what form of probiotics, i mean, is it a pill i can buy somewhere?


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

I would stop the antibiotics, the bird's already been getting them for 19 days, right? And start on probiotics. We have a powder Probios, we probably got it from the health food store. We use that on seeds glistened with olive oil. Or there's Benebac gel, which can be given by syringe. I don't know where to get that, maybe pet supply store? Or yoghurt with active culture. 
How does the stump look?


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

You can find the probiotics at any food health store and you can give him one pill/capsule in between medicating.
How is he doing?

Reti


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

the stump is still yellow, but not as yellow. the bone is drying up, shrivelled up a bit. Pidgey said Unie has a bone that still sticks out, so i'm assuming that leaving the bone is fine?
i will go get some probiotics this weekend, and post the dose to find out how and how much to give him. in the meantime, i can just give him yogurt? how much, and how do i give it?
he's doing fine. he's not friendly, but he's mostly ok with me grabbing him. i mean, i dont expect a feral pigeon to be FRIENDLY, but he's by far the friendliest pigeon i've had. well, my first seemed to be friendly, but that was because he was too sick to fight, and he died soon after. RIP.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Yogurt is fine, you can give a couple of cc's.
Glad he is doing so much better.
How long has he been on antibiotics now?

Reti


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

ok, this guy is healed up. i need to start looking for a home for him!
he still is a bit feral, but has become much friendlier. he'll let you hold him if you take him to the window, and likes to sit in your hand and just look out.
a boy, teenager. very cute. i know some people said they might take him, so i'm just putting it out there. i'm sure he'll like a home with other pijjie's.
I'm out of hospital beds, so i cant take any more injured guy's in until i clear house a bit. i've got a few on the verge of release, but this guy is unreleasable.
THANKS EVERYONE FOR YOUR HELP WITH HIM!!!!


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Good job, Moxie! Hopefully someone will be along soon to adopt this one. You might want to post him in the Adoption section also.

Terry


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