# how to tell the gender of a pigeon?



## 2ndwind (Jan 16, 2009)

i dont know what is the gender of my checker pigeon..some say that it is in the vent to know if it is a male or female but i don't even know what is a vent..can anyone help me ??


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

The behavior is usually the best guide, but even that isn't certain. Male pigeons are normally more vocal and 'pushy' - do the turning in circles, puffing out chest, and cooing stuff. Of our pigeons, the males are mostly significantly bigger and heavier as adults. The hens are generally much quieter. Sometimes folks say the only sure way is when one lays an egg


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## 2ndwind (Jan 16, 2009)

Other people say that the vent is the way to see if it is a male or female..is that true??


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

The pelvic bone method has helped me a lot in mature birds. It can be tricky though because the hen's bones may be more tight until she lays her first eggs.

The "vent" is what we call the cloaca - the butt. You're feeling for the pelvic bones that come together at a point, like a V. Males have very tight spaces between the two bones, usually touching and won't give. The hens usually have a space wide enough to fit your finger between the bones. Some hens have tight vents all the time and can feel like a male, but with hens the bones usually give when you apply a tiny bit of pressure. These are the bones that have to spread when the egg passes through. So obviously males have no reason to have any give in them. With young birds it can be very hard to judge by this method. The hens haven't opened up and some males haven't tightened up. Even as adults they may trick you.


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## Birds (Apr 11, 2011)

After reading some of the comments , we were able to feel the bony structure , we also read that one can use an infant nasal speculum and look into the vent , don't laugh , but what are we looking for using that method ? To be blunt is there penetration ?


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## tipllers rule (Aug 2, 2010)

one of my new birds 05 nbrc anyways the birds pelvis thing contracts can sombody put up link for a pic at the pelvis bone so iam not touching some random area on the pigeons behind


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## 2ndwind (Jan 16, 2009)

tipllers rule said:


> one of my new birds 05 nbrc anyways the birds pelvis thing contracts can sombody put up link for a pic at the pelvis bone so iam not touching some random area on the pigeons behind


thats right..can someone post a pic of the pelvis of a pigeon.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Kathy's Loft said:


> After reading some of the comments , we were able to feel the bony structure , we also read that one can use an infant nasal speculum and look into the vent , don't laugh , but what are we looking for using that method ? To be blunt is there penetration ?


never heard of it...really is it THAT important to find the sex?!.. I would NOT recommend you put anything inside your birds vents.. IF one just HAS GOT TO KNOW... try doing DNA test..some only need a feather..and it is about 25 bucks.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

2ndwind said:


> thats right..can someone post a pic of the pelvis of a pigeon.


Try google image.. type pigeon skeleton.


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

Or you wait 4-6 months and see who lays eggs. If you have adult birds (already 4-6 months) and you want to know who is what, the males will fight with each other no matter where they are in the loft (don't invade my space) but the hens will run until cornered. 

While I remember this question being super important to me when we were just starting (I needed to make sure I had even numbers for breeding) it turns out that you just need to go with the flow. Sometimes a bird wants to hold its secret and won't tell you what it is until it finds that "special some-pigeon" and decides to start procreating. 

Which is why, even with perfectly matched male/female pairs, I have 4 prisoners who are just sitting there looking at each other. Tried to force them. Tried to beg them. Tried to get them to foster. Picky picky picky.


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## rpalmer (Mar 10, 2011)

spirit wings said:


> never heard of it...really is it THAT important to find the sex?!.. I would NOT recommend you put anything inside your birds vents.. IF one just HAS GOT TO KNOW... try doing DNA test..some only need a feather..and it is about 25 bucks.


Thanks for your post. Whew.


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## Hallzy91 (Mar 20, 2011)

The guy I got my Rollers from figured out the sex by spreading there feet & wings or it might have just been the wings, but once you spread them if there tails go down it is a female and if the tail goes up it is a male....I'm not 100% sure if that how it is, could be the opposite but he said its a 90% chance of it being right.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

spirit wings said:


> never heard of it...really is it THAT important to find the sex?!.. I would NOT recommend you put anything inside your birds vents.. IF one just HAS GOT TO KNOW... try doing DNA test..some only need a feather..and it is about 25 bucks.


I agree, that's pretty crazy 

But if you were looking for anything, I guess you'd be looking for the papilla? Like you do when you sex baby chickens


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

http://i85.servimg.com/u/f85/13/45/71/18/pigeon14.jpg

Pubis bones, right under the tail bone. They should be right before the vent.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I'm guessing this is the bird you're asking about? Only looks 3 months old. It'll be a while before you're able to get an accurate guess on the sex of it. Looks like a little cockbird, but could be a hen as well.


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## 2ndwind (Jan 16, 2009)

MaryOfExeter said:


> I'm guessing this is the bird you're asking about? Only looks 3 months old. It'll be a while before you're able to get an accurate guess on the sex of it. Looks like a little cockbird, but could be a hen as well.


i think its a cock because whenever i put my hands close to him he makes a sound like "oohm ooohm oooohm".


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I have hens that do that too  One of them in particular always gets fussy whenever I'm near the cage. Especially when she has eggs/babies!


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

Our hens do that as well. Especially if they are on eggs or young. More of a "Outta my space!" thing. 

We had a bird that everyone said was "definitely a cock". She laid her third round last week. As as been said before:


> If it lays an egg it is a hen. If it hasn't laid an egg it might be a hen.


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## Josepe (Jan 10, 2011)

What Hallzy91 said.I've sexed my birds this way for many years and it's proven to be 98% accurate for me.Only it's the opposite-If the tail goes up it's a hen,if the tail goes down it's a cock.Also another method is too look at the vent on the squeekers before they start feathering.If the vent is in the Smiling position it's a hen,if it's in the Frowning position it's a cock.May sound stupid but try it.


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## 2ndwind (Jan 16, 2009)

i dont understand what Hallzy91 said..can anyone explain it clearly..


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## 2ndwind (Jan 16, 2009)

MaryOfExeter said:


> I have hens that do that too  One of them in particular always gets fussy whenever I'm near the cage. Especially when she has eggs/babies!


oh and another thing he runs away while he is making sound.


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## Hallzy91 (Mar 20, 2011)

2ndwind said:


> i dont understand what Hallzy91 said..can anyone explain it clearly..


Read what Josepe said
Spread the wings and if the tail goes up its a hen and if the tail goes down its a cock, It's pretty accurate.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Hallzy91 said:


> Read what Josepe said
> Spread the wings and if the tail goes up its a hen and if the tail goes down its a cock, It's pretty accurate.


Im sorry but if that were true the mystery of sexing pigeons would of been over a long time ago.. the only 100 % way to sex a pigeon is if and when it lays eggs or a DNA test... that's it.. some can just from experience look and guess.. I have had cock birds that were sold to me as hens and so many hens that are cock birds.. even the most experienced get it wrong.. there is no way to sex pigeons and be accurate..except for the two ways I mentioned..


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## Hallzy91 (Mar 20, 2011)

I never said it was 100% correct 
I'm just going by what I was told and shown, so far the pigeons I got have seem to be showing signs of hens from what I have read.


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## czarkos (Feb 4, 2010)

2ndwind said:


> Other people say that the vent is the way to see if it is a male or female..is that true??


Ya the cocks have a small vent and the hens have a wide flexible vent for laying eggs. Also the cocks will feel bigger in your hand than the hens when you hold them.


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

These techniques mentioned in this thread and on many occassions in earlier threads, work for some and does not work for some one else. The toe nail method, the flip method, shape of head, sex indicator, oil glands, order of hatching, latest which I came to know, the smiley on the vent method, not trying to say that it does not work or its all a lie, but that its not scientifically supported and does not yield same percentage of accuracy for everyone who tries it (I mean around the globe, we pigeon fanciers are there everywhere)

As some members have already indicated in their posts, 100 % accuracy is obtained for all those trying to identify the sex of pigeons are DNA tests, mating tests, known facts of genetics and surgical proceedings.
As John mentioned, a very fair accuracy is obtained in observing the behavior of a mature pigeon or a pigeon on its "road to maturity" and thats a trait which I believe a pigeon fancier should acquire in this hobby, also its this which one have to bet on in most cases.

Rest of all methods (excuse my memory if I had left out a 100% method), great it if it works for you  its your hobby, cheer up


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## Josepe (Jan 10, 2011)

98% is close enough for me.When I was a kid(12) we all had pigeons in the neighborhood(ferels).We were shown how to sex them by an 80 year old italian pigeon keeper.I'm 60 now and still use this method.Alot cheaper then DNA.Maybe some need to leave all that scientific argle bargle and go back to some of the older ways with different things in the pigeon world today.


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

Why don't we gang up 10 volunteers from PT who have fledglings of the age to conduct this test and see how the outcome is ? may be it might be an eye opener to the pigeon world.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Has anyone considered that when you spread a birds wings, if you tip the butt down, the tail will drop, if you tip the head down, the tail will raise? Just like when they are trying to balance on a wire or tiny branch. Would this not mess up your results?

I have heard that if you pull the head and feet, then you judge which way the tail goes. I guess it is supposed to be mimicing the mating act. Males tails go down, hens go up.

Personally, I do not worry about the sex of my birds. If it is breeders I'm looking for, they should be old enough to tell when I buy them. Anything else I have the patience to wait it out.


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

Or we can do what I am planning. 

I have 20 birds of known sex (they are on eggs or are known to be half of a producing pair). I can provide lots of evidence about the sex of these 20 birds. If we can find 4 other folks with 20 known sex (10 male, ten female preferred) then we will have a round 100 and 5 unique testers. 

This will provide immediate feed back on a control set with unarguable results. 

So is it tail up or down for cocks?


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## Hallzy91 (Mar 20, 2011)

Up for Hens down for Cocks

Just did both of mine and both tails went up.


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## Birds (Apr 11, 2011)

With baby chickens , if one pulls the head and the feet are drawn up it's a hen and if the feet relax and kinda fall it's a cock ,I think . lol


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

Jaysen said:


> Or we can do what I am planning.
> 
> I have 20 birds of known sex (they are on eggs or are known to be half of a producing pair). I can provide lots of evidence about the sex of these 20 birds. If we can find 4 other folks with 20 known sex (10 male, ten female preferred) then we will have a round 100 and 5 unique testers.
> 
> ...


So this tail up and down test, works for pigeon of all ages ?

Some time before when someone mentioned it in another thread, it was for fledglings around the age of 4 weeks or something, I remember testing that on my adult pigeons then, it was only a mess


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## Hallzy91 (Mar 20, 2011)

I would say it works best on the young ones.


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## rpalmer (Mar 10, 2011)

Put a can of beer and a telephone in your loft. The birds that sit on the beer are male, the ones that sit on the phone are female.


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

This test was offered for a bird that was several months old so I assume that it is. Based on what we have seen of other "sexing" tests the moderately reliable for all individuals (vent, behavior) are based on increased accuracy with maturity. The fanatical ones all seem to have limits. 

It would also be helpful for those who recommend and stand by this test to post some pics of the following:
1. Wing spread. Method/amount in particular
2. Display of a "hen" behavior
3. Display of a "cock" behavior

Let's eliminate variables to the results. If we can replicate a 98% accuracy for this method it will be well worth the effort.


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

Hallzy91 said:


> I would say it works best on the young ones.


Works "best" as in only reliable if the birds are under X age or works "best" as in birds over X age are 80% correct?


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

rpalmer said:


> Put a can of beer and a telephone in your loft. The birds that sit on the beer are male, the ones that sit on the phone are female.


LOLZZZ  That's a good one


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## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

rpalmer said:


> Put a can of beer and a telephone in your loft. The birds that sit on the beer are male, the ones that sit on the phone are female.


Lol .................!!!


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

The thing is everyone has at least a 50% chance of being right...lol..


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Well I went out into the OB loft and tried it. Very hard to do it without breaking/messing up the secondaries trying to keep them still. Two cockbirds, two hens, all birds tails went up. Then I tried it on a little cockbird that's about a month and a half old. Tail went up. Tried it on his brother which is probably 3 months old. Tail finally went down after I got him to calm down.


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

SW,

Not true. 

Males have a 100% chance of being wrong if a woman is in the discussion.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Jaysen said:


> SW,
> 
> Not true.
> 
> Males have a 100% chance of being wrong if a woman is in the discussion.


LOL!  

----


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## Josepe (Jan 10, 2011)

I'll try to get a couple of pics this evening when My wife's home to work the camera.


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## beatlemike (Nov 28, 2009)

My hens will put on bright red lipstick and high heels before they go out to loft fly but of course I have some high class birds!


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## OldStrain (Jan 25, 2011)

This was a reply I sent in for Telling Gender in Squabs awhile back. Remenber this type of sexing is only for squabs...Hopefully I will be able to relay this properly: At the age of banding, place your right hand over the top of the bird with your thumb aiiming at the head of the youngster. Then turn it up side down so the vent is facing you. If the vent is a smiley face it is a cockbird, a frown is a hen. I band even numbers for a cockbird and odd for hens. Can honestly say it is not 100%, but its the best method I found.
At three months old, just a visual guess is what I use. I would say that that little Blue Check Splash is a Hen?


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

rpalmer said:


> Put a can of beer and a telephone in your loft. The birds that sit on the beer are male, the ones that sit on the phone are female.


LOL , even thats not 100%, you should see the number of "birds" that drink beer


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## TylerBro (Mar 14, 2011)

Well tell them u want a new bass boat if the pigeon nods yes its a cock if it storms out its a hen ...


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## Birds (Apr 11, 2011)

@TylerBro ,

ROFL .........................


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## LFR2691 (Jan 23, 2011)

*Is Bella ready to mate?*

Hi, my pigeon Bella is about 6 months old and she / he has been acting a bit weird lately. She has always been very close to me, following me around the house etc., but recently she allowed me to pet her head and back. Now she wants me to pet her every time I let her / he out of her cage. Is she in heat or something? She puffs up and walks around in circles after I pet her. Should she be with other birds? I thought that maybe this was a sign that she is ready to mate. I really don't know much about pigeons. I rescued her raised her from a baby and was not able to release her so I kept her as a pet. I just want to make sure I am doing the best thing for her.

Thanks,
Linda


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

If she puffs up and walks around in circles, perhaps with tail dragging, then you have MALE pigeon!


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

RodSD said:


> If she puffs up and walks around in circles, perhaps with tail dragging, then you have MALE pigeon!


Not nessessarily true, some females have been known to act this way too.
Convinced everyone they were male, then laid an egg !!!


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

LFR2691 said:


> Hi, my pigeon Bella is about 6 months old and she / he has been acting a bit weird lately. She has always been very close to me, following me around the house etc., but recently she allowed me to pet her head and back. Now she wants me to pet her every time I let her / he out of her cage. Is she in heat or something? She puffs up and walks around in circles after I pet her. Should she be with other birds? I thought that maybe this was a sign that she is ready to mate. I really don't know much about pigeons. I rescued her raised her from a baby and was not able to release her so I kept her as a pet. I just want to make sure I am doing the best thing for her.
> 
> Thanks,
> Linda


*Hi LINDA, Well when you petted the head you were doing part of the mating thing. I have seen it many times, the hen will nibble the cock birds head.Your bird is more then likely a male,and is answering you action with the actions of the male bird.* GEORGE


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## LFR2691 (Jan 23, 2011)

*She is a he?*

Hi thanks for the responses. She or I guess maybe "he" does do the circle thing. It does look like a mating dance, puffing his chest out and strutting around in circles. So what should I do? Does he need to be with another bird or will he stop after a while? I will definitely stop petting his head if that is what is causing this. 

Thanks,

Linda


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