# Spread - young one colour????



## johnbt (Sep 17, 2010)

The following are pictures of a pair of young ones I have. The hen is a lavender I bred last year and the cock is a blue checker pied. 

The darker nest mate is the one I'm not sure about? When breeding with spread birds are all the young spread? Do things change if it is the cock or the hen with the spread factor in the pairing?

These are the young ones. My query is about the darker one.

















These are the parents. I bred with this cock last year and only produced blue checkers so nothing too unusual about him as far as I know.









This picture I think is the hen taken when she was younger. It could be her, or her sister, they are identical though.









I struggle with colours (colour deficiency??). I thought the young one may just be spread ash in a darker variation? My wife says the colour of the young bird is brown.

Thanks,

John


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

my thoughts are, an ash red hen and a blue cock will only produce blue daughters and red sons (red sons carrying blue).

If a spread bird is homozygous spread it will produce only spread.
A hetrozygous spread could breed both spread and non-spread offspring.

Looks to me like you have bred an ash red spread cock carrying blue and the other, the darker one could be an ash red cock carrying blue or a recessive red. If it turns out to be a hen then we know its recessive red.


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## johnbt (Sep 17, 2010)

That makes sense thanks. The bird I am querying may just be a red checker. Because of all the white on the bird the shoulders and neck are the same colour. This is the first round, I'll see if I eventually get a blue checker hen, I should, if this bird is a red checker.

It might just be like the red checker below but with much more white.










Thank you for the reply,

John


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

What did you breed the lavender hen from?


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## johnbt (Sep 17, 2010)

This is the cock









and the hen









I breed lavender hens, a black cock and a mealy looking cock (just like the father from this pair)


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

ok so your Lavender hen is hetrozygous spread she must have got one dose from the father. The blue check mother is obviously not spread so she can't pass it on to her daughter, therefore the lavender hen will breed non spreads because she is hetrozygous spread.


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## johnbt (Sep 17, 2010)

Thanks for your help. I have a lavender sister to the lavender hen paired with a blue bar pied cock. I have a black and a mealy from them, they are the same age as these two young birds. This is good news. I have lots of colours, but not enough good blue bars and mealies for showing. The mealy will be a cock. I have a lovely mealy hen, that won best of the breed earlier this year at the young bird show. Just started breeding and already thinking about next season.


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

I've got young rollers at the moment too. All the adults are similar looking birds to yours. Pied, checks, bars, ash red, blue and spread.


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## johnbt (Sep 17, 2010)

I'll put some pictures in another thread of some of my young birds that I've started training/ flying. I don't think I'll get to it tonight, I'm getting tired and have to get up early to go fishing.

Thanks,

John


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## horseart4u (Jun 16, 2011)

to me they both look spread, but with all the white could be wrong, but i do know its not a normal ash red because the head is red too, unless its a red velvet, i have two red velvet splash the head neck and wings are all the same red color, their flights and tail are ash red & white. either way these two are pretty. do you have any for sale?


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

horseart4u said:


> to me they both look spread, but with all the white could be wrong, but i do know its not a normal ash red because the head is red too, unless its a red velvet, i have two red velvet splash the head neck and wings are all the same red color, their flights and tail are ash red & white. either way these two are pretty. do you have any for sale?


They do not both look spread, Regardless of how much white is there, The darker bird does not LOOK spread at all, Ash red spreads are generally silver, I will note that Johns ash red spreads do vary but I would still doubt the dark red bird in this case is spread. It is too red around the head

Velvet ash reds and recessive red birds look exactly the same in the head and neck areas so this bird could be either.


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## horseart4u (Jun 16, 2011)

thank you NZ PIGEON again you have corrected me....i did say red velvet also give me some credit SHHHH!!!


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Yes I agree it could be red velvet. Red velvet and recessive red look similar in the head and neck, Spread and red velvet generally ( in most cases if not all ) do not.


Granted, if this bird is recessive red it could infact be spread, But only breeding tests would confirm that, a photo holds no clue to that possibility


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

John - I love how your birds are so similar to Mine and Lukes, The rollers we have in the nest at the moment look so much like your recessive red/T pattern velvet pied.

If I was a betting man my money would be on recessive red, But only because I have bred some similar and test bred them out to be prooven recessive red birds. Could be wrong though.


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## johnbt (Sep 17, 2010)

I have this hen (crap picture). I would think that she is somehow related to all my original birds. I need to breed some reds but she was my only one. I have some cocks bred from her last year that I believe will help if paired back to her. Another project for later in the season. The young one does look this colour!


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

You have two cockbirds, one ash-red spread, one ash-red t-pattern.


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## johnbt (Sep 17, 2010)

Thanks. The sister to the lavender hen (also a lavender) has two young ones also, one is a black pied and the other a mealy. A nice pied mealy too.


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