# ash red almond?



## APF_LOFT

the pic below is my newly acquire racer is he a ash red almond or what?


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## APF_LOFT

weird eyes because of the camera flash


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## almondman

Can't help you with your question, but that's a good looking bird.


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## APF_LOFT

thanks almondman.

i think my bird is not normal ash red there must be another mutation involve about his color.


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## Pollo70

Gool looking bird!


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## NZ Pigeon

It does look Almond, Also carries blue, I think your right, Ash red almond cock carrying blue.


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## APF_LOFT

thanks Pllo70 and NZ Pigeon. almond is dominant right?


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## indigobob

APF_LOFT said:


> thanks Pllo70 and NZ Pigeon. almond is dominant right?


Hi, your bird is an ash-red chequer heterozygous for blue, not an ash-red almond.

There is a photograph of an ash-red almond in the article in this link, as you can see the colouration of the ash-red almond therein, is very different to the colouration of your bird.

http://www.angelfire.com/ga3/pigeongenetics/nonclassicalalmond.html


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## APF_LOFT

indigobob said:


> Hi, your bird is an ash-red chequer heterozygous for blue, not an ash-red almond.
> 
> There is a photograph of an ash-red almond in the article in this link, as you can see the colouration of the ash-red almond therein, is very different to the colouration of your bird.
> 
> http://www.angelfire.com/ga3/pigeongenetics/nonclassicalalmond.html


thanks

can you give some pic of ash-red chequer heterozygous for blue?

i have another pic of ash-red almond from www.slobberknockerlofts.com the pic below


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## APF_LOFT

another ash-red almond (**** ASH RED, HETERO DILUTE, **** T CHECK, HETERO ALMOND
) from falconlofts


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## MaryOfExeter

Nope. Just an ash-red check carrying blue. Cockbirds like that can vary GREATLY as far as how much flecking they have.


I have a sooty ash-red cockbird that has a lot of blue in the flights like yours (although not quite as much as yours). You can see him in my video starting at 13:40.
If you watch the whole thing you'll see all of the ash-reds I had at the time. They all have different amounts of flecks in different areas. Ignore the part about a potential mosaic. I thought I saw something and got excited but it turned out to be nothing LOL
http://youtu.be/oJZ7H5EiJ3s


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## APF_LOFT

MaryOfExeter said:


> Nope. Just an ash-red check carrying blue. Cockbirds like that can vary GREATLY as far as how much flecking they have.


ok thanks MaryOfExeter is not a almond after all.

what color i can pair to him to produce the color (flecking) like that?


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## Crazy Pete

Only cock birds have that If you mate him to a blue all reds will be hens.
Dave


Is that a Sion?


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## MaryOfExeter

If you mate him to a red:
- All sons will be ash-red but only half of them will have flecking
- Half of the daughters will be ash-red (no flecking because only cockbirds can have flecks), the other half of them will be blue.

If you mate him to a blue:
- Half of the sons will be blue, the other half will be ash-red with flecking
- Half of the hens will be blue, half will be ash-red

So either way it doesn't matter because only half of the sons will look like dad.


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## Crazy Pete

If you mate him to a blue:
- Half of the sons will be blue, the other half will be ash-red with flecking
- Half of the hens will be blue, half will be ash-red

I always thought if you mated them with blue it was that sex linked thing.
Dave


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## MaryOfExeter

Crazy Pete said:


> If you mate him to a blue:
> - Half of the sons will be blue, the other half will be ash-red with flecking
> - Half of the hens will be blue, half will be ash-red
> 
> I always thought if you mated them with blue it was that sex linked thing.
> Dave


Nope, you have it backwards  A blue cockbird with a red hen is sexlinked


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## Crazy Pete

LOL Thanks, Becky
Dave


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## APF_LOFT

Crazy Pete said:


> Only cock birds have that If you mate him to a blue all reds will be hens.
> Dave
> 
> 
> Is that a Sion?


what is a Sion it is a strain?



thank MaryOfExeter and Crazy Pete for the breeding info.


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## MaryOfExeter

Yep, Sion is a strain (Paul Sion's birds)  You can read about it here:
http://showtimeloft.jimdo.com/articles/paul-sion-story/
http://www.racingpigeondigest.com/archives/featured_articles/44 (scroll down)
http://asaicoloft.com/asaicoloft/HistoryPage.htm


One of the most famous Sion guys here in the States was Charles Heitzman. Now the name most think about when they hear Sion is Skylake Sions. Either way, the Sion strain is known for long distances, in both young and old bird races. Kicking butt at 500 and 600 miles. They are also probably one of the most beautiful groups of racers I've seen. Not only are they good races but they are good at shows too. A LOT of Sions were ash-reds.


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## APF_LOFT

thank for the link

i only bought my bird from a local fancier without pedigree for 500 pesos about 10 US dollar.


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## nzpouter

mate him to a black, not a t-pattern, but a spread black.


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## APF_LOFT

nzpouter said:


> mate him to a black, not a t-pattern, but a spread black.


what happen if i pair it to a spread black what they produce?

i want to pair him with my spread black grizzle the pic below.


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## NZ Pigeon

I wondered after posting if it was almond, Almonds can vary greatly but I think the consensus is right that its not almond.

NZpouter is onto something, spread ash reds generally have a lot of dark flecks.

If you put it to a black then you will get the same as what Becky has said 
- Half of the sons will be blue, other half will be ash red with flecking
- Half of the hens will be blue, half ash red
except half or all of them will be spread, Depending on whether the black you use is double dose spread or one dose spread.

Do you have a close up pic of that last birds tail, Does it have a tail bar?


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## APF_LOFT

no i dont have but it doesnt have a tail bar so she is a spread.


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## nzpouter

the grizzle will make it even more interesting with ash red and spread....


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## Crazy Pete

He is a distance bird and she is a speed bird, do you have any middle distance hens?
Dave


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## MaryOfExeter

He's awfully colored in the wings for a spread. That'd be one coarse spread! But I think the best mating would be a blue. That way you'll know for sure if it's spread because you'll get black babies if it is. Otherwise, the spread could come from the black hen.


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## NZ Pigeon

MaryOfExeter said:


> He's awfully colored in the wings for a spread. That'd be one coarse spread! But I think the best mating would be a blue. That way you'll know for sure if it's spread because you'll get black babies if it is. Otherwise, the spread could come from the black hen.


Ha? I don't think he means the red one is spread.


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## MaryOfExeter

Sorry. When I read your comment about ash-red spreads having a lot of flecking I thought you were referring to the original bird with lots of flecks.


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## NZ Pigeon

No, lol. I was agreeing with Andrew that if he puts it to a spread hen he will get ash red lavenders and some should have heavy flecking all over. I was wrong that it was almond but I can see it def. not spread lol.


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## NZ Pigeon

Crazy Pete said:


> He is a distance bird and she is a speed bird, do you have any middle distance hens?
> Dave


Can you tell that just from looking? I have asked many fanciers about the difference in sprint and long distance birds. People say large birds with stiff wings are sprint and smaller birds with long backs and supple wings are better over distance. Is it really this simple? I do not race myself but would love to in the future, any info on this would be great.


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## MaryOfExeter

If it was that simple we'd get our birds back all the time and win a lot. I've seen too many exceptions to even worry about it. I'd rather look at the birds results and the parents results to judge what kind it is  And if I have zero information whatsoever then I try to pair birds together who look similar. Unless they are too big birds, then I'd put them with smaller ones to prevent me from flying Runts (as lovely as that sounds, big birds unfortunately are not always better LOL).


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## NZ Pigeon

MaryOfExeter said:


> If it was that simple we'd get our birds back all the time and win a lot. I've seen too many exceptions to even worry about it. I'd rather look at the birds results and the parents results to judge what kind it is  And if I have zero information whatsoever then I try to pair birds together who look similar. Unless they are too big birds, then I'd put them with smaller ones to prevent me from flying Runts (as lovely as that sounds, big birds unfortunately are not always better LOL).


Thanks Becky, I thought there might be more to it than looks. Isn't that the case with everything in life, You never know whats underneath.


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## APF_LOFT

nzpouter said:


> the grizzle will make it even more interesting with ash red and spread....


i pair them today i hope that they produce good offspring.


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## APF_LOFT

Crazy Pete said:


> He is a distance bird and she is a speed bird, do you have any middle distance hens?
> Dave


most of my bird are taiwan bird, taiwan bird are middle distance bird and the spread grizzle is a offspring of taiwan bird.


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## NZ Pigeon

APF_LOFT said:


> most of my bird are taiwan bird, taiwan bird are middle distance bird and the spread grizzle is a offspring of taiwan bird.


Sorry to hijack your post with the difference between spring and distance birds. I was intruiged as to how someone could look at a pic and say what sort of bird it was. It seems maybe it is not as simple as that though. Like your black grizzle too, I love racers with an upright stance.


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## APF_LOFT

because Taiwan have only limited land area and sea territory and because of that they only using middle distance racer.


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