# Green Diarrhoea, Salmonellosis?



## columbids (Jun 23, 2007)

Is there any other reason my pige would have green diarrhoea with reduced urea content?

I have seen it eat and drink, although less than expected. 

This is my third day of posession with it. 

It has been symptomatic for 24 hrs as of this post. 

Estimate of age is between 8 and 12 weeks. 

Characteristic sick pigeon pose.

No nervous system signs. Pige follows movement with its eyes, no cankers.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

If you have other birds, separate this one from the rest to be safe. Have 
you looked inside the mouth for any unusual growths/coloration?

What medications do you have on hand??

fp


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## columbids (Jun 23, 2007)

I don't have any other birds, and no meds on hand. There is also a bit of ankle joint swelling, which would go along with the salmonellosis illness. Do I have to go to a vet to get meds for it? No abnormal mucous or growths inside of mouth or drainage. No redness or swollen throat


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

You mean that the urates (which should be white) are green, or even a neon bluegreen? If that's the case, then you'd better get the bird on Baytril (Enrofloxacin) or Ciprofloxacin real quick. I usually go with a Baytril/Metronidazole combo for good measure. It is highly probable that it's Salmonellosis (Paratyphoid) and it can kill pretty quick when it's of a mind to.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Incidentally, if you can get Ciprofloxacin (Cipro), then you can go that route. That's a human medication that most people can't get without a prescription at a regular pharmacy. Enrofloxacin is a veterinary version of the same drug but it's unlikely that you'd find it very easily and you probably don't have the time to wait on a shipment from somewhere. That said, it's time for a vet.

Pidgey


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

I'm sorry to hear Chlema isn't doing well. Has she been able to eat on her own since you got her? The green poop may be from hunger - she is not getting enough to eat. You had mentioned in another thread that her leg was swollen around the band. Did the swelling go down?

I would recommend getting her to a vet to be checked out. Make sure they do a fecal exam which can give you a lot of info about her condition.

In the meantime, I would put her in a cage on a heating pad and keep her quiet.


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## columbids (Jun 23, 2007)

She was weaned when I got her. The swelling is about the same as when I got it. The urates are indeed a dark green, along with unformed liquidy feces. The pige has eaten since I've gotten it, enough that the stools should have some form to them (I would think). Feed for the last 24hrs has been sparsely pecked at, one or two pecks and then loses interest. Again an hour later.

Get this: Anchorage is a small town. There are three avian vet clinics. One refuses to see non exotic species. One has both of the av vets on vacation. The other one won't wait until I can get the bird there before they close (promptly at 5pm) and so refused to see it. I finally got the emergency vet clinic to agree to see the pige, as no supply stores carry the drugs, and no vet will even mix the drug for me without seeing the bird! Holy cow, I was so embarrassed because I am at work and I was so shocked at the apathy of the vet people here that I was fighting tears! Any tech could mix up the meds, any tech can prepare a grahm stain...it would take 15min! They all HAVE to know how fast birds can go down once they're ill...We NEVER turned away sick birds at the animal clinic I worked at for that reason

Anyway, thank YOU for caring and I'll keep you updated. I hope it's just stress but I don't think so.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Columbids, 

I don't know your whole story, but it sounds as though you have recieved
this bird from a breeder? You wouldn't be the first that received a sick
baby from a breeder though as Maggie mentioned, not eating/meeting
it's nutritional needs could be at the bottom of the poops coloration/consistancy. Still, I've had a spat of youngsters locally w/
foot/leg involved Paratyphoid and it sure is good to have the advice of
a vet when you can.

I'm very sorry you are going through this with the local veterinarians
and can't believe that in such a small place you would (with any other
pet that is) be blessed w/three avian vet clinics. Dr. Brian Speers and his partner Dr. Scott Ford, both practiced in Alaska if I remember correctly.
You might think about emailing Dr. Speers through this site and ask him
for a local referral:

http://www.vin.com/promo/consultants/consultant17.htm

He is a world-class vet and certified to practice in the US and Europe.
It might help and it can't hurt, if you called somewhere stating that you were
referred through the above site or Speers it may get someone's attention or
at least an attitude adjustment.

Best of luck to you and your baby,

fp


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## columbids (Jun 23, 2007)

Whew, just got home. I got off of work at 5pm, I flew home and picked up Chelona and ran him across town to the vet clinic. The vet did a fecal smear, gave the bird some drugs and off we went back home (after paying the $100 bill). I flew back across town to my geology exam, which I was 1.5 hrs late for. What a day. I spent my whole lunch hour calling vets and forgot to eat, no time for supper either...The only way I could be more tired is if I had kids.

I may have to bring him back as they kept the dosage minimum so as to not upset the bird's system too much as it adjusts. 

Is there a pigeon mash I can make or something to get food in him as well as water? That's what we did for the horses when they got too sick to eat for themselves. What about the Exact baby bird formula? After raising lovebirds I sure do know how to use a formula syringe.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Thank you for the update.

Yes, you can give the Kaytee Exact or another of the Harrisons bird formula that would be appropriate if the bird is grown.

What did the vet say the bird has, and what drugs did they give you?

Sounds like quite a hectic day, please do update us on Chelona, and how he is doing.


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## columbids (Jun 23, 2007)

Chellie made it through the night and his/her tail isn't drooping quite so much. Urates are normal color, which is an improvement. 

The vet said it was mostly salmonella, although there were a couple normal flora that took advantage of the stress.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

They don't typically improve quite that fast. And you can't normally identify Salmonella that easily, either. I made an educated guess once because the bacilli that I was seeing in the microscope were quite motile. What drugs and what dosages?

Pidgey


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## columbids (Jun 23, 2007)

I'm starting to think the dude I got Chelona from was mistaken about her being fully weaned. She pecked at some of her feed today and was really clumsy with it. She quickly gave up each time, which initially I thought was because she was sick, but now I wonder if she's sick because she doesn't know how to eat. How frustrating! Most of the stuff she tried she kept dropping. 

She's on baytril, 4 drops per day for 7 days. 

here is what I'm feeding:

pearled barley
oat groats
split peas
buckwheat
lentils
mung beans
adzuki beans

The largest thing in there would be the random mutant pea, 1cm across max. 

Of course there's more volume of grains than beans. 
I will go out and get some millet to add. 

Thanks for your continued support.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

What percentage Baytril is it? You need to help to feed her, she will not get
the nutrients she needs to heal if she isn't self-feeding.

fp


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## columbids (Jun 23, 2007)

It's 10%. I hate to stress it out by helping to feed, but I think I will tonight at least and see how she reacts.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

It's pick your stress time if the bird isn't eating. What I mean to say is that
the bird will become physically more and more stressed by not meeting its'
nutritional needs and become more vulnerable to the host/equilibrium disease
state for canker or coccidiosis assuming that the pij is in the category of having
been exposed to the organism. Most pigeons fall into that category.

BTW, I don't recall....you have checked inside the mouth for unusual growths
and there is no unusual odor--as in sour--to the droppings, correct?

So you are giving the medication at 12 hour intervals?

fp


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

columbids said:


> It's 10%. I hate to stress it out by helping to feed, but I think I will tonight at least and see how she reacts.


I wouldn't dealy in feeding her, If she really wasn't weaned when you got her...and how long has it been?


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## columbids (Jun 23, 2007)

I bought millet spray, a canary grass seed mix for it to pick at and exact. Yep, 12 hr intervals. No sign of canker. throat and mouth look great. 

I'll be feeding exact tonight. I picked it up today to do a look over and it's keel is sharper than it was. At least it's drinking...

Stay tuned


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Feed Exact in the morning too. She's probably very weak. Keep up regular feeding with Exact until you know for sure she's eating on her own.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

And no sour smell to the droppings? Well, just can't always see canker, that's the prob. Anyway, do keep the feedings up until the bird is self feeding.

fp


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## columbids (Jun 23, 2007)

Ok, the supply store where I can buy syringes was closed so I spoon fed a little bit of exact until air started getting into the crop. 

Then I gently massaged the air upward and out of the crop, and spooned some canary seed mix into her mouth and she swallowed that much better. I also gave a tiny bit of grit and a couple swallows of water. Fortunately we've seen her drink. 

I only fed enough to feel it in the bottom of the crop. I figured less more often was better in this case? 

There is no odor about the bird or its droppings. I wish my camera was working, I would post pics of the poop. The inside of her mouth wasn't caky, bumpy, mucousy, or smelly either. Nasal and resp have no audible problems, and there is no discharge. I'm crossing my fingers...


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## Jazicat (Oct 31, 2005)

I just wanted to wish you the best of luck with Chelona and hope she's better soon.


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## columbids (Jun 23, 2007)

Thanks to everyone who helped Chelona. He/she died while I was at work today. I called the person I got it from and let him know he should treat his flock and pay more attention to the age of his chicks. 

I am willing to adopt from someone on this forum and pay to have the bird shipped up. Please PM me with any pige you may think I would be good for and visa versa. 

Sincerely:

Lydia


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

columbids said:


> Thanks to everyone who helped Chelona. He/she died while I was at work today. I called the person I got it from and let him know he should treat his flock and pay more attention to the age of his chicks.
> 
> I am willing to adopt from someone on this forum and pay to have the bird shipped up. Please PM me with any pige you may think I would be good for and visa versa.
> 
> ...


Lydia, I'm so sorry to hear about your little friend Chelona. I'm glad you 
called the breeder as well, and I hope for the sake of the other birds in his/her care that your cautions will be heeded.
Again, I'm so sorry about Chelona.

fp


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I am so sorry to read the terrible news. I really wasn't expecting this sad outcome.
Thank you for everything you did to help this little sweetie.

Reti


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## Jazicat (Oct 31, 2005)

I am so very sorry for your loss.


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## columbids (Jun 23, 2007)

Thank you all for your support. You are wonderful people and very much appreciated, after my experience with the vets and everything, I would be feeling very angry and alone up here!


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I forgot to mention that you could check in the adoption section of this forum. There are almost always little ones that need a good home.

Reti


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I'm so sorry to hear about the outcome, I'm sure you can find a wonderful bird thru our adoption site.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Lydia, I am deeply sorry to read about Chelona's death.


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