# Calcium With Vitamin D3 And Splayed Legs



## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Hi Guys

What is the best way to give a baby pigeon with splayed legs Calcium With Vitamin D3 . I can get some tablets from Ebay but I'm wondering how to give them to the baby bird. Can they be crushed up and be mixed in with the parents food and they will then feed it to the baby.


Thanks all


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

I give my hand reared hatchlings Calcivet calcium +D3 it's a liquid and comes in a dropper bottle so it's easy to regulate. I give mine one drop once a day in one of their formula (Kaytee) feeds and when they're weaned I put one drop in their water bowl daily. They don't get sunshine atm because they're too young for an aviary so I like to make sure they get a good source of calcium and D3. 
To prevent splayed legs I keep the chicks on Eco Nest bedding with a toweling material underneath so as they can grip without slipping. Eco Nest is made from shreds of cardboard and they can grip that too. It's also fabulous to keep clean because you can pick out poo that attaches to individual strands of the cardboard. The towelling is there in case they move too much Eco Nest from under foot and they still have something to grip on.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Sounds good. Where to you buy it from,do you get it online

Thanks


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Don't you give your birds calcium and D3? Can you post a pic of the baby?


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Not had the birds that long and i have never given them any calcium before. can video also be uploaded to this site or just pics

Thanks


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Forgot to say i had Sawdust and Hay in the nest bowl


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

Yes I get it online from northern parrots, fast delivery too. 
http://www.northernparrots.com/mobi...m-and-vitamin-d3-parrot-supplement-prod6300a/


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Wow 4 quid for Postage.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Thanks for the link


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

It'll take more than calcium and D3 to fix a splayed leg. It will have to be wrapped. How old is the bird?


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

About 10 days


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Post a picture?


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

I don't get my camera back till Monday. But i will post it as soon as i get it back


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

It would help a lot. The leg will have to be brought back into the correct position. The sooner it is done, the better the chance of fixing it. As he gets older and wants to walk around, it gets a little more difficult.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Is it just Cohesive Bandage to tape the legs up ? Also should i remove the Sawdust and Hay from the nest bowl


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

Lol donkey - yes it seems dear but it's rather heavy and the Royal Mail's just put charges up too. It lasts a long while though so it works out cost effective. You may have a pet shop near you who sells it, I'm just lazy and rather than drive around using petrol I'd sooner pay postage.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Got my camera back,here are some pictures


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Some more pics


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Today when i looked at him his legs looked fine and they were underneath him. But when he tries to move his legs go out to the sides and he just seems to crawl around. I took the Hay out and just put some kitchen towel in as i was thinking he might be able to grip that better than the Hay. Hes about 10 days old now,should he be standing up at this age and walking around ?


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

I've seen it done with micropore surgical tape, it's put lightly around each leg and positioned into line with the tape in the middle stuck to itself so as it doesn't stick to her body. This could be done in stages and bring the legs into a better position each day so as it's not too uncomfortable for the chick. Micropore won't stick to the leg and damage the skin because it's made specifically not to. 
I think I saw this on a YouTube video but it may have been anywhere tbh because I'm always googling stuff about pigeons, lol.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Hi FredaH. I think this is the stuff your talking about,i got some today


http://www.wilko.com/first-aid/wilko-blue-cohesive-bandage/invt/0348502


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

Yeah I think that's fine and in this vid it shows roughly what I'm talking about, a kinda brace. There are lots of vids on YouTube and many different remedies. I'd go with this one personally because it doesn't seem as debilitating as the sponge versions. If they work though then it's just personal choice eh? 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LhSsgX3wDpY


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Thanks for the link that looks easy to do.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Here is a small video of the Bird

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7c6LajRzbRQ&feature=youtu.be

.


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

Aww poor little love. I'd just tape the legs and bring them closer together on a daily basis until you have them properly in line. I'd think he'd be more comfortable with the tape on than he is now tbh, he can't mobiles at all can he? I also like towelling material as a lining because they can grip it with their claws too, I know you've put him on kitchen towel for the video and don't keep him like that ordinarily. From what I've seen on YouTube I reckon he'll be fine in a couple of weeks.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Yes i think your right. Toweling might be better. Have some old ones somewhere that i could cut up and use


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Another short video of him on the Kitchen Towel 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAZRzqNvjzM&feature=youtu.be


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Self adhesive bandage is good for this. It's like vet tape, and is a bit stretchy. It will adhere to itself, but not the bird.
I was able to use 2 bandaids for a week old squeaker. I brought the legs into a good position, put the bandaid around one leg, with the pad of the bandaid around his leg and brought the sticky ends between the legs, and stuck them together. Did the same thing with the second bandaid, and attached it to the other one in between the legs. First pulling the legs into a normal position.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Yes this is the stuff Im going to use. Might have to cut it down a little. Its a Cohesive Bandage


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

I also found this which is very helpful on how to put it on

http://www.cutelittlebirdiesaviary.com/splayed-leg-prevention-and-treatment.html


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Don't use paper towels under him. That is not something he can grab onto. It's slippery, and making them go out to the side.
He is so young with soft bones that you can just bring the legs in where they should be. Doing it in stages will take too long, and you have said that he can get them under himself.
Towels won't work anyway, unless made into a donut, with more towel underneath. Not paper towels. Terry towels. I used thick foam rubber like what you put around an air conditioner, brought it around into a donut, and wrapped paper towel around it to cover and be able to change. The parents were feeding the baby, so I wanted to keep him in the nest box. They would pull off most things I tried to wrap him with, so I sat him in the foam donut, and pulled a lot of straw up around it so they didn't see anything. It looked like he was just sitting in a deep straw nest.
In any case, you need him sitting in a nest that he can easily bring his legs down under him, that is why you need to make the donut. If you leave him on a flat surface, he will probably just pull both legs back behind himself, and be on his tummy.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

I don't have any thick foam rubber. Would sawdust and Hay made into a donut work. Or some filter wool that you use on a fish tank.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

donkey said:


> I also found this which is very helpful on how to put it on
> 
> http://www.cutelittlebirdiesaviary.com/splayed-leg-prevention-and-treatment.html



Yes, you will have to cut the tape to about an inch width. If you do it like on that web site, bring them in a bit closer. More like where they should be. If you give them too much room to be able to move the legs independently, they will still be going outward a bit more than you want. If a bird is getting a bit older and is determined to want to walk around, then you will need to give him more slack to be able to do that. But where he is still so young, you won't run into that for a while. But he does need to be put onto a sort of nest where the legs will go down under him, or again, he will throw them backward.

Also, if done as in the video, you may need to wrap a bit of another piece around the tape between the legs to make it a bit more stable, and keep them just where they should be, so they don't then cross each other.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Just taped his legs together and i had to make a donut out of some Hay as that's all i have at the moment till i can come up with some thing better. But his legs are now under him.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Can you post a picture of how the legs are wrapped?


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

It has a bit of a twist in it hope its ok


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

One of him in the nest. Seems to be keeping his feet under himself now and not to the side


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Some more video of him.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcEteLhW4eI&feature=youtu.be



.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Would a bit of sand in the nest bowl help as well. I have some of the yellow stuff that builders use. Or some coral sand.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Its really hard to get the tape on when your doing it by yourself  Somewhere i read were a guy used two split rings with some soft string in between to tie them together.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*You need to get someone to help hold him as that leg needs to be straightened a little more. That splay leg needs to be folded under him and needs to be taped at the ankle, not at the elbow. If needs be you can use a bowl (along with tape) that is small enough to help keep legs under him, but large enough where he can fit in comfortably. 

This can definitely be remedied as he/she is still young and growing. He needs Calc/D3 also, I am sure that has been mentioned.

Here is an older youngster taped (this is the correct position for a bird standing): http://www.pigeonrescue.co.uk/splayleg.htm *


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

For the record i would like to say what a Complete Dick i am. Can anyone see the problem looking at the pictures i posted or the video ?


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

I can see that the left leg isn't taped in the right place so that foot is still able to splay out, if that's what you mean. The other leg looks fine and just a matter of putting the tape on the left leg above the ankle I'd say. If you don't have anyone to help could you gently wrap a dry flannel round him to keep him still, put him on your lap on his back between your knees and quickly do it that way? Obviously not roll him up tight but just restrain him because I know how they wriggle.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Hi FredaH. Its nothing to do with the way the legs were taped. To be honest i never noticed it till i looked at the video. I feel so bad that i never seen it earlier


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

Well I'm intrigued now donkey - what is it then?


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

Wing maybe? Can't really see it tbh.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The sore on the right elbow? Or the left rear toe curling up?

You may do better with the band aids I mentioned earlier. Attach to one leg and stick together with the tail of the band aid going toward the other leg. Then put one on the other leg and stick it to the tail of the other band aid, making sure that they are pulled into a natural position before taping the 2nd one to the tail of the first. It's pretty easy to do it by yourself too. It will never work if the bandage is high on the one leg like that, because their legs grow quickly at this age, and it will grow pointing outward. That cannot happen if you want him to be able to walk as an adult.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

If you look at the picture of the birds legs one of them looks swollen. On closer inspection what had happened was the ring had slid up over the knee joint and got stuck. I would not come back down to the ankle. I spent the next hour cutting the ring of the birds leg.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

New video of the bird after cutting the ring off and re-tapeing the legs. Does that look better ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfL3pO_zMgg


.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

@ FredaH Just seen this on ebay and it looks like it might last longer that the stuff your using.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/vetark-ZO...396958?hash=item25bde0815e:g:QVUAAOSw-jhUH~HS


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Jay3 said:


> The sore on the right elbow? Or the left rear toe curling up?
> 
> You may do better with the band aids I mentioned earlier. Attach to one leg and stick together with the tail of the band aid going toward the other leg. Then put one on the other leg and stick it to the tail of the other band aid, making sure that they are pulled into a natural position before taping the 2nd one to the tail of the first. It's pretty easy to do it by yourself too. It will never work if the bandage is high on the one leg like that, because their legs grow quickly at this age, and it will grow pointing outward. That cannot happen if you want him to be able to walk as an adult.



If you had not have asked for a picture of the birds legs after taping I would not have noticed that for another day or two
Thanks Mate


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Make sure he can't pull them further apart, as the bandage is stretchy. And keep him in something, like a donut or whatever where he can dangle the legs a bit. If he can sit on them in a nest, he may kick them out behind him.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Okay will do  Will the tape need to be changed from time to time.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Just check daily to be sure that it doesn't get tight, as it could cut off the circulation. If all is well, I change them after a week to see the progress. Or if it gets dirty. It will have to be wrapped again though. But do check daily. He will soon be trying to get up and move around, and if that happens he will probably fall on his face and push the legs out behind him, so check on him often. He may have to be set into a deeper donut or "nest".

Good job, BTW.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Thanks jay3 will keep an eye on him. How long does it normally take for the legs to heal


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

Omg donkey I didn't even know he had a ring on. I've put rings on my two but not when that young because they fall off, I've only just rung Gabriel (found out today it's a boy, DNA test, so changed from Gabrielle, lol) and he was two weeks old, just able to get it over his ankle. That could have been so bad eh?
You're right about the calcium because mines only 30mls but as I only have two birds, soon to be three fingers crossed, it lasts a long while. Says 'English' on the bottle, don't know what difference that makes but rather patriotic, lol.


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

That looks like neat work btw.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If you use the closed rings, you have to put them on at about 7 days old, or you can't get them on.
I like the CalciBoost, or Calcivet where you are. Same thing.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

FredaH said:


> That looks like neat work btw.


Thanks very much


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Jay3 said:


> If you use the closed rings, you have to put them on at about 7 days old, or you can't get them on.
> I like the CalciBoost, or Calcivet where you are. Same thing.


I think i put mine on at about 5 or 6 days


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

Mine are hand reared, so smaller than the racers etc I've seen and they're feral too so nothing special really - although they are to me. 
Gulliver here is six weeks old and beginning to put on weight faster now that he/she's finally eating seed. Very picky though and only eats certain things.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Nice looking bird Fred. Its so kind of you to be looking after feral pigeons like that.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

donkey said:


> I think i put mine on at about 5 or 6 days


Yes. between 5 and 7 days actually, depending on the breed and the bird. Sometimes the parents will remove them, so you have to watch for that and put it on the nest day. If you skip a day, could be too late.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Will have to put a split ring on him now as his legs have grown to much


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

Mine are just little squits donkey, Gabriel here is eighteen days old so you can see why I can still ring them rather late. They eat like horses but have both grown at the same pace. Some of the racers I've seen on YouTube are massive, about the size mine are here at five days old, lol. Selective breeding I suppose.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Babies grow at a slower rate when hand fed, rather than being fed by their parents.
What is the band on his leg? That isn't a closed band anyway. They can be put on at any time. We were referring to a closed band having to be put on between 5 and 7 days old.


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

Yes they are closed bands and mainly for my own ID if they all look alike, which these two seem to have similar markings so far. Also for any vet trips during their lifetimes. People on the pigeon group say vets here can be too quick to euthanise ferals and they should never be left at a practice alone. Scary thought and never want that to happen. 

I don't like split rings purely because they can be taken off too easily.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

What size are them rings FredaH. Your birds must have really small legs


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

They're 10mm donkey, told that was about right for a feral.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Did you put 2 rings on his leg?


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

FredaH said:


> They're 10mm donkey, told that was about right for a feral.


Think the one i have were about 7 or 8mm. If yours are 10mm maybe that's why you can get them on when the bird is older


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

My bad donkey, they were 8mm - just checked the invoice.  I think it's just because the birds are small, although the dad bird didn't look particularly small the hen was rather petite. I doubt ferals get a good enough diet to end up substantial - pizza, McDonald's etc, whatever messy humans leave behind because you're not allowed to actually feed them purposely around here.


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

Tiny legs at five weeks. 









The dad.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Wow them legs are small.


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

I've never really noticed ferals too much before having these, we get woddies round here and they look big but when you actually handle them they're all feathers too and nowhere near as bulky as they appear.


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## LeeLu (Sep 23, 2012)

donkey said:


> Hi Guys
> 
> What is the best way to give a baby pigeon with splayed legs Calcium With Vitamin D3 . I can get some tablets from Ebay but I'm wondering how to give them to the baby bird. Can they be crushed up and be mixed in with the parents food and they will then feed it to the baby.
> 
> ...


Go to your local grocery store, in the vitamin area, you will find calcium/D3 Softgels...i use these; it's easy to give them to your birds...simply use a pair of shears and cut the very tip of the softgel tablet hold your bird and open it's beak, and squeeze the calcium/d3 onto the back of it's tongue! i do this quite often, so i can tell you it's an easy way to give them the calcium/d3 they need. i buy the Nature brand...very often at my local grocer it's buy 2 for the price of one bottle.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Can they be added to the drinking water ?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You have no idea of how much you are giving this way, or even how often to give it.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

LeeLu said:


> simply use a pair of shears and cut the very tip of the softgel tablet hold your bird and open it's beak, and squeeze the calcium/d3 onto the back of it's tongue!



That seems like a hard way of doing it. It would be so much easier if it could just be added to the drinking water.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

It isn't a good way of doing it, and you don't know how much you are giving. And could aspirate the bird.
Can you not buy Calcivet online which is made to be put in the water. It would last a long time, and is what it is for. Trying to save on things like that is not usually a good idea.
It's been a week since you first posted. Has the baby not gotten any calcium yet? If you had ordered the calcivet back then, you would have it by now.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

I got some Vetark Zolcal-D Liquid Calcium. It gets a lot of good reviews and is recommended by vets. But i am always looking for other ways of doing it that might be cheaper and better.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Some info on it

Product Description
A state of the art´ veterinary formulated liquid calcium supplement with vitamin D3 and magnesium. Suitable for birds by either putting it in the drinking water or direct dosing. Veark are very proud to announce that now Zolcal D is licensed as a medicine under the Small Animal Exemption Scheme.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

That sounds good. Does it give a direct dose dosage?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Maybe start with just a couple of drops a day down babies throat for a few days. And then use the dose they give in the drinking water.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Dosage Instructions

Use 10ml (2 teaspoons) per litre of drinking water or give by direct administration at a rate of 0.1ml per 100g of animal. Or pour/sprinkle onto food at a rate of 2.5ml (half teaspoon) pet 250g of food.


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## LeeLu (Sep 23, 2012)

donkey said:


> Can they be added to the drinking water ?


no. One softgel worked very well for my pmv chick, 2 times a week; appeared to be enough to stabilize the hen, she didn't walk backward in circles as much ...i just watched the hen, when she began walking backward in circles, i gave her another softgel...

you'll know too, just watch the improvement, when it begins to wear off, you'll know that too!


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## LeeLu (Sep 23, 2012)

donkey said:


> Dosage Instructions
> 
> Use 10ml (2 teaspoons) per litre of drinking water or give by direct administration at a rate of 0.1ml per 100g of animal. Or pour/sprinkle onto food at a rate of 2.5ml (half teaspoon) pet 250g of food.


i am sure there is an amount listed on the bottle of calcium/d3 softgels per softgel...again, i just watched my hen and gave her more when it appeared she needed it.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

donkey said:


> Dosage Instructions
> 
> Use 10ml (2 teaspoons) per litre of drinking water or give by direct administration at a rate of 0.1ml per 100g of animal. Or pour/sprinkle onto food at a rate of 2.5ml (half teaspoon) pet 250g of food.



Okay then, can you put that dose in the drinking water that the parents will use? Wouldn't hurt to put the couple of drops down the babies throat once a day for a few days.

How many birds do you have?


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Yes that's how i have used it so far by just putting it in the drinking water. I only have the three birds,the parents and the chick


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Okay, how often have you used it before now?


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Never as i have not had the birds that long. And i don't know if the guy who i got the birds from ever used it.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Then start now. The legs need wrapping and he needs the calcium and D3. Very important if you want him to heal.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Had him on it for the last three days. I also got some nest liners to stop him slipping and some high calcium grit


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Nest liners? What did you have him on before?


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

sawdust and hay


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Sawdust is no good, but straw would be good. He needs something to be able to grab with his feet, to keep them under him, and straw is good for that. Not hay, but stiff straw. That also helps to prevent splay leg, by helping him to keep his legs from splaying out.

If the pics you posted in the beginning are the way you kept him in the blue bowl, then I would be surprised if his legs didn't splay. Wood chips on paper towels 
are very slippery. He had nothing to grab onto to keep his legs under him.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Okay thanks,will get some straw as well


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Sawdust can get into babies' eyes and even mouth when they're taking feed from parents. And it sticks to their feet/bodies when it gets wet. It holds the moisture which may contain/spread something.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Think i need to remove the sawdust. What about sand is that okay ?


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Same problem occurs with sand as with saw dust. And fresh sand may contain many bacteria. You shall not use anything like it in the nest boxes. You may sprinkle a tiny bit of sand over the loft floor or other spaces where you scrape clean. Sand won't let droppings stick to the wood firmly hence can easily be scraped.
Experienced fanciers(in UK and Asia) if needed use Ash in the nestboxes. Because ash is a residue and don't support bacterial life. They use ash at the bottom and use stiff straw to cover it to prepare a nest. Regular cleaning is very crucial.


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

I use newspaper to line the cage floor and absorb moisture from droppings and Eco Nest that you can get from garden centres over here donkey. It also doesn't fly around all over the place when they exercise their wings like straw tends to. o


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Thanks Fred. Just been looking at that Eco Nest stuff. How can they charge so much for a shredded cardboard box


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Another update video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Dv6gp50_z0


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

For me it lasts quite a while because I've only got three pigeons, one hatched today, so I don't need much. It may be different once I've got my aviary though. I pay £3.49 from the garden centre and it's economical because poop only lands on a couple of strands which are easily separated from the rest, with straw it entangles and you waste more IMO.


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

Just watched your vid donkey and wow, what a transformation. Love the look of your chick too, done some growing eh and legs look super. Gorgeous kid.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

FredaH said:


> For me it lasts quite a while because I've only got three pigeons, one hatched today, so I don't need much. It may be different once I've got my aviary though. I pay £3.49 from the garden centre and it's economical because poop only lands on a couple of strands which are easily separated from the rest, with straw it entangles and you waste more IMO.


I think if i could buy it from a local shop it would be a lot cheaper. But as soon as they put the postage price on it starts to get expensive


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

FredaH said:


> Just watched your vid donkey and wow, what a transformation. Love the look of your chick too, done some growing eh and legs look super. Gorgeous kid.


 Thanks. Yes hes looking a lot better. Falls over a little but i think that's because his legs are still taped.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

He needs something under him that isn't slippery. Something that won't let his legs go out if not taped. Have you checked the legs to make sure they are pulled in enough? If they are just a little bit outward now, when the tape is off, they will be outward more.
Are they in a loft? If so then straw shouldn't be a problem.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

No, not taken the tape off to check the legs,but i could do that later on today. There in a cage but i will put some straw down as well.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If they are kept inside, then yes, the straw is messy. But he needs something that his feet won't slide out. Very worn out kitchen towels work well, but if the loops in the towel are very high, then they catch their claws in them. Not so easy, is it?
He is really adorable.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Thanks,glad you like him


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Jay3 said:


> He needs something under him that isn't slippery. Something that won't let his legs go out if not taped. Have you checked the legs to make sure they are pulled in enough? If they are just a little bit outward now, when the tape is off, they will be outward more.
> Are they in a loft? If so then straw shouldn't be a problem.




Just removed his tape so see how his legs are. There still a bit wide apart but he is lifting himself up and walking on them. When i say walking its more of a shuffle than a walk  but he can get around. Re-taped his legs again and will check on them again at a later date


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Make sure they are close enough together, or will always splay out a bit.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Jay3 said:


> Make sure they are close enough together, or will always spay out a bit.


Thanks,will do


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Just took the tape off to see how the legs are doing. They still look a little bit Splayed to me. Re-tapped them again and this time pulled the legs in a bit more

Some video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lpOKliF12A


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*Lovely bird. Definitely needed to be taped closer together. *


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

Looks so much better donkey, hopefully a little longer will do the trick eh?


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

FredaH said:


> Looks so much better donkey, hopefully a little longer will do the trick eh?



I'm really hoping so mate


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I had mentioned to you that the legs needed to be pulled in closer together. The younger they are, the better it will work. His legs are growing and bones are hardening up now. Had you pulled them in together like 2 weeks ago, they would be pretty straight now. If you don't get them together now, they will always be like that, and will splay out on him when he stands, particularly on a smooth surface.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Jay3 said:


> If you don't get them together now, they will always be like that, and will splay out on him when he stands, particularly on a smooth surface.


*True, my rehabber friend took in a young bird with splay like that and tried to tape it when the bird was fully grown. The bird cannot stand on any kind of smooth surface as the leg begins to splay out further.

Tape again, time is of the essence. Make sure to keep giving the bird calcium/D3 supplement.*


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Skyeking said:


> *True, my rehabber friend took in a young bird with splay like that and tried to tape it when the bird was fully grown. The bird cannot stand on any kind of smooth surface as the leg begins to splay out further.
> 
> Tape again, time is of the essence. Make sure to keep giving the bird calcium/D3 supplement.*




Hes still on the calcium/D3 supplement and i have already tapped his legs again. When they were tapped before they looked like they were in the right position but after i took the tape off they were splayed. I'm starting to think that an elasticated bandage is not the the best thing to tape legs with as it stretches to much.







.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

donkey said:


> I'm starting to think that an elasticated bandage is not the the best thing to tape legs with as it stretches to much.
> 
> 
> .


*I don't recall anyone saying to use elastic bandage, it should be regular bandage/tape.*


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Skyeking said:


> *I don't recall anyone saying to use elastic bandage, it should be regular bandage/tape.*




I'm using some Cohesive Bandage,but it does seem to have some spring in it. I'm thinking this might have been better

http://www.wilko.com/first-aid/wilko-washproof-tape-5-x-25m/invt/0307957


.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I have even used two band aides. Put around each leg, and stick it to itself, with the tail facing the other leg. Then stick the second band aid to the first band aids tail.
You need to make sure they are straight, where they should be. They will end up healing how you put them.

You can use stretchy bandage, but not if you don't pull it in enough. You had them too far apart as I remember.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

What about duct tape ?


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Does anyone know at what age its to late to get the legs back to were they should be ?. I'm starting to feel really bad for this bird as he sits down a lot as he cant move his legs much and keeps falling over


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

donkey said:


> Does anyone know at what age its to late to get the legs back to were they should be ?. I'm starting to feel really bad for this bird as he sits down a lot as he cant move his legs much and keeps falling over


No. Duct tape would stick to him too much, and damage the skin. Do you not have bandaids? Or do you not understand the way I explained it?
The legs were not pulled in straight when taped, or they would have healed that way. There is still a chance for them to be brought in, but you need to listen. Now. Do you have bandaids?

You are running out of time now. If not fixed now, he will have no quality of life. If a bird cannot fly, they can still get around. If they can't even walk, might as well not be.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

I think that's what we call Plasters over here


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Check the taping done on this bird with splay legs (Boots self-adhesive bandage was used). : http://www.pigeonrescue.co.uk/splayleg.htm


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Skyeking said:


> Check the taping done on this bird with splay legs (Boots self-adhesive bandage was used). : http://www.pigeonrescue.co.uk/splayleg.htm




I think that's the same stuff i used but its also called Cohesive Bandage


.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes, they are pretty much the same thing. Self adhesive bandage is like vet wrap. It does have some stretch to it, which is good, as it is less likely to cut off the circulation. But it does require pulling the legs in close enough for them to heal straight. I'm sorry donkey, but you were not pulling them in enough. Then when he moved, he was able to splay them out even more. 
Try the band aids. I think you are right in that they are called plasters over there. Do you understand how it was done?


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Jay3 said:


> Do you understand how it was done?





I think so. I will give it a try and hope for the best


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Please post if you have trouble with doing it. Maybe I can explain it better.
Post pis when done?


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Is binding a birds legs like this likely to be causing him pain. And if the legs don't get any better what kind of life will this bird have. Will he be able to fly and maybe have a normal life like other birds. Or is he going to be suffering and not have any kind of quality of life.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

donkey said:


> Is binding a birds legs like this likely to be causing him pain. And if the legs don't get any better what kind of life will this bird have. Will he be able to fly and maybe have a normal life like other birds. Or is he going to be suffering and not have any kind of quality of life.


Do you read our posts? I did answer that question. 
It would have bothered him a lot less had you pulled them in where they should be when he was younger and bones were softer. It probably won't really cause him pain now, but much more difficult, as he is older and is walking around more and so harder to confine him. So not as easy to bind him where he can't walk well. You have no choice. If you don't bring the legs in, then they will always splay, and on many surfaces they will go out from under him. He will grow up and gain some weight, which will put more stress on the legs. He will not be able to walk well, and eventually may not walk at all. As for a normal life, he will not be able to mate if he is a male, as he will have no balance. If a female, it would still have problems with mating. If the weight of the bird weakens the legs, then it won't be able to walk at all. Then there is no quality of life. It may not look all that bad right now, but as he grows, it can get worse. As it is now, he wouldn't even be able to land on a perch or shelf without problems.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Things are not really looking that good after reading that. Maybe i need to think about ending his life if hes going to be suffering.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Rather a defeatest attitude, no? I guess the alternative would be to re-wrap them correctly this time, and hope they will still heal. Yes, of course it would have been easier when he was still little, but even though more difficult now, not impossible. If you think that trying to still help him is not worth the time, then I guess you wouldn't be able to do it anyway. So which is it? Do you always give up so easily when a challenge becomes more difficult?


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Was that reverse psychology  Its not about a defeatist attitude its about whats best for the bird.i would hate to think he is suffering and it could get worse for him. The last time i wrapped his legs they looked fine and seemed to be in the right place. Now after i re-wrapped them today they now look like there to close together. Now if i move them to what looks right they will be back in the same place they were before


.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

This is a picture of the last time the birds legs were wrapped. Dose that look to far apart ?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes, it does. And the fact that the bandage will stretch a bit. Look at your other birds. The legs are in a bit more.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Re-Taped

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1w-rYGrbmQ&feature=youtu.be



.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Okay. They are closer together where they should be, but the stretch bandage kinda lets them move too much I think. I know he is older now, and wants to move around, but with the stretch in the bandage, he may be able to stretch it too much. Can you go over the stretch bandage with regular tape that people use for bandages, or even duct tape, which you have cut to about an inch wide. Just to make it firmer. There seems to be too much play in the whole thing, like between the legs. I think he would be able to get out of it even. Can you close up the area in between the legs?


I believe this link was posted before, probably by Skyking. Did you check it out?
http://www.pigeonrescue.co.uk/splayleg.htm


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Okay gone over it with some Duct tape. I even put some down the middle of it as well. Dose that look about right ?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Oh my! That looks perfect! Well done! Had you done that in the beginning, his legs would be very straight now. I really do believe that there is still time to heal his legs. I really do. So please keep them wrapped like that. 
Is he able to walk at all? Or does he just lay down? That's why it's easier when they are babies.
Just make sure you check for the circulation, but it looks just about right where it shouldn't be a problem. At this point, I would keep them wrapped this way for like 2 weeks.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Would you mind if I save this picture and use it when needed to show someone what I am trying to explain. You have finally got it, and it could help others who have not dealt with the problem before. I have seen a lot of wraps done on here, but this one I really like. I would always give you the credit.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Jay3 said:


> Would you mind if I save this picture and use it when needed to show someone what I am trying to explain. You have finally got it, and it could help others who have not dealt with the problem before. I have seen a lot of wraps done on here, but this one I really like. I would always give you the credit.



Sure if it helps anyone out then please feel free to use it

Thanks



.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Jay3 said:


> Oh my! That looks perfect! Well done! Had you done that in the beginning, his legs would be very straight now. I really do believe that there is still time to heal his legs. I really do. So please keep them wrapped like that.
> Is he able to walk at all? Or does he just lay down? That's why it's easier when they are babies.
> Just make sure you check for the circulation, but it looks just about right where it shouldn't be a problem. At this point, I would keep them wrapped this way for like 2 weeks.




He is standing a little but most of the time he is laying down. And as you say i will keep a eye on the circulation as well. Hope its not to late for him,will keep my fingers crossed that all is good after a few more weeks.

Thanks


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

How are the legs positioned when he is laying down?
If he were very young, he could be put into something that would allow his legs to hang down under him. At this age it is more difficult. Some people have even figured out how to suspend the bird so that the legs do go down below him. 
It's okay, as long as he isn't putting them back behind himself. And if he is sitting right on them then it's okay, but you would have to get him up and walking if possible, or to exercise them a few times a day, so they don't freeze in one position.
He may stay up more on his own, after he gets used to this. It does, though, make it much harder for him to walk. i know that, but is necessary.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Jay3 said:


> How are the legs positioned when he is laying down?
> If he were very young, he could be put into something that would allow his legs to hang down under him. At this age it is more difficult. Some people have even figured out how to suspend the bird so that the legs do go down below him.
> It's okay, as long as he isn't putting them back behind himself. And if he is sitting right on them then it's okay, but you would have to get him up and walking if possible, or to exercise them a few times a day, so they don't freeze in one position.
> He may stay up more on his own, after he gets used to this. It does, though, make it much harder for him to walk. i know that, but is necessary.


Hes not putting his legs back behind himself,hes just sitting like a normal Pigeon. He tends to get up on his legs when I'm in the cage feeding them and changing there water so i don't think its going to be a problem for me to exercise his legs day to day as I'm in the cage about three times a day and as soon as he sees me hes up on his legs trying to walk around the cage


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

That's wonderful. You really did a great job. I'm hoping all turns out well in the end, and I think it will.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

I'm hoping as well  And thanks for all the help. Will keep you updated on his progress


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Tape will be coming off later today,fingers crossed its legs are okay


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

How well has he been getting around? Good luck! Praying he will be okay.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Well the tape is off and there is a slight improvement but not as much as i was hoping for


Video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Irfv-lEb1Co&feature=youtu.be




.


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## Chuck K (Jan 12, 2013)

Pigeons are amazingly resilient birds, and this one is young. I think it will continue to improve.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Can you tape the top of the legs? Just the top, to pull them in a bit closer? I think with them pulled closer, and him walking, they will get stronger in time. In time, as he puts on weight, that could cause them to splay more. And smooth surfaces will do the same. The taping you did this time was good though. Had that been done at the start, the legs would have been much better. Hopefully, they can still be pulled in some.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Chuck K said:


> Pigeons are amazingly resilient birds, and this one is young. I think it will continue to improve.


I really hope so Chuck


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Jay3 said:


> Can you tape the top of the legs? Just the top, to pull them in a bit closer? I think with them pulled closer, and him walking, they will get stronger in time. In time, as he puts on weight, that could cause them to splay more. And smooth surfaces will do the same. The taping you did this time was good though. Had that been done at the start, the legs would have been much better. Hopefully, they can still be pulled in some.


When you say the top of the legs how far up should i go ? Do you mean just above the pigeons ankles


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

donkey said:


> When you say the top of the legs how far up should i go ? Do you mean just above the pigeons ankles


That is where they were taped. At the top, means at the top. Not the bottom. Then he should still be able to walk some, which will further help to strengthen the legs.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

So i should just go as high as i can


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

There are 2 halves of the legs. The bottom half and the top half. Tape the top half, and leave the bottom untaped so that he can walk around.
The foot may always turn out just a bit, but for now, I think it is important for him to be able to walk, which will also help to strengthen the legs.
Post a pic when you're done.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Okay will get them taped. At the moment hes walking around the kit box and he looks okay but i think that's because the kit box has a wire floor and it stops his legs sliding out


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The upper legs are still spaced too wide. I think there is still time to fix it though. I know you are getting tired of this, as he must be also, but later on down the road, you will be glad that you did all that you could for him. He should be able to have as normal a life as possible. As he gets older and gains some weight, any splaying will only get worse. Then he won't have much quality of life, and I know you were really concerned about that. You are doing a good job for him. 
At least he will be able to walk around with the top pulled in a bit, so for him, he has to feel better.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Thanks for the help Jay, but trust me i will do what it takes to try and get this birds legs right me getting sick of this just wont happen  The worry i had was he was in some kind of pain and that hurts me a lot deep down. But now hes outside in the kit box and watching him with other pigeons he seems a happy bird so i don't worry about him so much now. I just want to give him the best life i can.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I know. It shows very much that you care a lot about him. I'm sure he is enjoying getting around with the others. Like I said, you're doing good.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Thanks Jay will get his legs taped up and get some pics up


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Okay this is not the easiest thing in the world to do  had to trim some of his feathers off as well. The problem is after you tape the legs and he tries to walk the tape starts to slide down the leg near to his feet. I have now got the tape higher and this time i used some plasters and some duct tape over the top and it seems to be holding in place. I think the only way to really keep it in place is to use duct tape straight onto the leg but come the day it needs to be removed then that's going to be difficult 


.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Few More


.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You did good. If I had seen the top of the legs when you did the bottoms, and saw that they were still kind of wide apart, I would have asked you to do the top too. Couldn't see them in the picture. Might have been harder for him to sit though. Just keep an eye on the birds left leg (it's to our right in the pictures), as it looks a bit snug.

If you have to, maybe some paper tape, running down the back of the legs, (not around them), would give you something to tape the duct tape to. Maybe paper tape could even be put over the duct tape in the back, and onto the leg. Paper tape is easier to get off. You did good, just keep an eye on the right leg especially, but of course on both for circulation. Don't know if that left leg will get too tight when he bends his legs to sit.
I know it isn't easy. Been there, done that.

Did the left leg get bruised?


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Thanks 



So should i leave this on for a few weeks ?


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Jay3 said:


> Did the left leg get bruised?



It did a while back when the ring got stuck on its leg and i had to cut it off


.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Poor thing must think you are out to get him.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

I know i feel really bad. Now if he were to look in a mirror he would think i have put a small pair of silver shorts on him.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Thank you for that. It's hot as hell here and high humidity all day. I needed a good laugh. Still laughing about the shorts. I will smile every time I think about that. So thanks.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Your welcome. But the more i look at it he now looks like he has shorts on but there coming down a little just like the way teenagers wear them.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

donkey said:


> Your welcome. But the more i look at it he now looks like he has shorts on but there coming down a little just like the way teenagers wear them.


The first image was cute.....................that one...........not so much


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Jay3 said:


> The first image was cute.....................that one...........not so much



I think your right. Okay visualize the first image but this time hes standing in front of a mirror with his Disco shorts on and hes playing Stayin Alive by the Bee Gees in the background.





.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Okay think i might have gone to far with that one. I will get me coat


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I wish you lived in my neighborhood. LOL.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Hi

Can someone please look at this video and tell me what the problem is
Thanks




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQSOo6O3WWs&feature=youtu.be




.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

That feather loss isn't good, and the legs are just not coming in. I don't remember if you are feeding him or if he is feeding himself now. But it could possibly be nutritional.
donkey, I have sent an email to someone in England who would be the best one to help you. She's really good, and has a website. You should check it out, as it has a lot of helpful information. She's nice, and I'm sure if she can help you, she will. Her name is Cynthia.

PIGEON AND DOVE RESCUE 

http://www.pigeonrescue.co.uk/


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Hi Jay

Sorry i never explained properly. This is the another chick that has come from the same parents. Its a lot younger than the last one but it looks like this one has a problem with its legs as well. I have no clue as to what is causing this. This one has had a nest liner from day one and the parents have been on the Calcium With Vitamin D3 for a long time now and yet this second chick is the same as the first one.

.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

I was so wrapped up in making sure that the first birds legs were okay that i never noticed this one till tonight when i went to touch it, it stood up but i could see their was something wrong with its legs. I was not expecting to have this problem again and i am at a loss as to why this second chick has the same leg problem as the first one.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Okay, Do the parents get calcium and D3? 
What do they have for nesting materials?
You need to check them as they grow. Take them out of the nest and stand them up. Even before that.
Can you post a pic of his nest?


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Yes the parents are getting calcium and D3. The nest was a plastic nest bowl with a liner inside it, if you look at the video you can see them their the two round pad things. After i recorded the bird last night i cleaned the next bowl and put a clean pad in there with a little bit of hay. Their is no way that the birds feet can slip on this liner so i don't know why the legs are turning out like this.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

How often do they get calcium? How much?


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

They get it everyday and have been since i had a problem with the last chick. I use the recommended does that it says on the bottle,off the top of my head its 10mm per liter of water


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

They also get a high calcium grit as well.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

donkey said:


> They get it everyday and have been since i had a problem with the last chick. I use the recommended does that it says on the bottle,off the top of my head its 10mm per liter of water



Does it say not to give every day? I know on the CalciBoost it does say how often to give it. Too much calcium can cause problems too. They shouldn't be getting it every day.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

This is all it says

Use 10ml (2 teaspoons) per litre of drinking water or give by direct administration ar a rate of 0.1ml per 100g of animal. Or pour/sprinkle onto food at a rate of 2.5ml (half teaspoon) pet 250g of food.


.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The CalciBoost says the same, but it also says not to give every day. It says once or twice weekly, and 5 times weekly for breeders. If over dosed, the effects will be that they don't utilize the calcium. I give a couple of times weekly and seems to work fine.
Also, if you have hard water, then they already get calcium from the water, so half the dose is fine.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Thanks think i will cut it down a little


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

I did read somewhere that splayed legs can be a problem on single chicks as both parents are feeding the chick to much food and the weight of the food can push down on the legs and to be honest the crop on this bird looks so full it looks like its going to explode


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

Awe that's a shame donkey, rotten luck to have two like that. Not sure I believe the over feeding of a lone chick because my three were lone chicks, fed loads by me with huge crops and all have normal legs. Can splaying be genetic at all, I mean with certain paired birds throwing out the condition - a bit like some humans because is one carrying a certain gene?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

FredaH said:


> Awe that's a shame donkey, rotten luck to have two like that. Not sure I believe the over feeding of a lone chick because my three were lone chicks, fed loads by me with huge crops and all have normal legs.* Can splaying be genetic at all, I mean with certain paired birds throwing out the condition - a bit like some humans because is one carrying a certain gene?*





I was wondering about that also.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

I really hope its not genetic  i was only wanting to keep about 6 birds to be honest now i don't know if i should risk letting them lay more eggs. If its a genetic problem does that mean even the chicks i have now wont be able to breed ?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

donkey said:


> I really hope its not genetic  i was only wanting to keep about 6 birds to be honest now i don't know if i should risk letting them lay more eggs. If its a genetic problem does that mean even the chicks i have now wont be able to breed ?


Well I wouldn't let them breed with each other. Breeding out with another bird would be helpful


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Oh dear just my luck


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

donkey said:


> Oh dear just my luck


I know. Sometimes you feel that way.


Well...................you know the drill. Wrap the legs closer like you did the second time on the other bird. Cut back a bit on the calcium also. Maybe it will work well on this baby. Good luck! I'm routing for you!


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Thanks Jay, legs already taped but I'm starting to think it would be wrong to breed from this pair again and i cant get hold of any more birds like this were i live unless i went back to the guy i got them from and I'm not sure i want to do that. my venture in to pigeons might be short lived


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You you show me their nest where they are hatched and grow?

Have you asked him if he has had any trouble with splayed legs in his babies? I would ask.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Splayed legs can be caused by one of several factors including dietary deficiencies, unsuitable nesting substrate, egg positioning and even congenital defects. There are a number of ways to correct this problem in a chick; however, if you have never worked on this problem before, consult with an avian veterinarian before attempting anything on your own. 
http://www.birdchannel.com/bird-breeders/bird-experts/margrethe-warden/baby-birds-splayed-legs.aspx


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Thanks for that Jay i will have a read. That chick is now a few weeks old. At 7 days i put its ring on and i did look at its legs then and they were fine. And now a week later they are splayed this seems to have happened very fast.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

donkey, what is the nest like? What are the nesting materials? Are they being raised on a hard surface?


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Jay a little bit of video here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFzoXRI7euI&feature=youtu.be




.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Very nice and clean. But with cut up straw like that, the straw really doesn't give them anything to grab onto. It seems that with the weight of the parent sitting on the bird, the straw would act like wood chips and just be slippery and that isn't giving him anything to grab and hold his legs under him. Those short pieces of straw, if grabbed, will just go where ever his feet go. So if they go out to the side, so will the straw. With long pieces of straw, or tobacco stems or whatever, they don't move. With the parents sitting on the baby, they are also sitting on the longer pieces and anchoring them in place. Hard to explain. I don't even use nest bowls for most of mine, and they pile up a nest of straw. If not enough straw, I will add more to the nest. I do try not to breed, but every now and then one or two get by me.
The one I did find to have splayed leg at about 1 1/2 to 2 weeks, was in a nest, but the middle of the nest was all the way to the nest box floor, so he wasn't really on anything other than the floor which of course is hard. Babies I have raised without parents only needed the nest to be high enough so they could sink into it. Didn't have to worry about a parents weight pushing them down. Maybe this pair just sits very tight on the babies, and you may need a nest of deeper straw. But long pieces, not shredded up like that. If it was much deeper, maybe the legs would stay under them and not go out to the side.

I'm wondering if just the pad would be better, if you are going to use pads. Maybe the babies can grab onto the pad. Don't know, as I don't use them.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

This pair give a whole new meaning to building a nest. But with that much straw, it cushioned the babies, and the long pieces stay put.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Are they your birds Jay ? Nice pics. To be honest the parents don't sit on the chick anymore,they just feed the baby then they come away and get on a perch. I really only add that straw as I'm worried it might get cold at night but the feet of that bird touch the pad in the nest bowl so it does have something to grip on to.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I know they aren't sitting on him now. But he didn't just get the splayed leg either.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Maybe the chicks are giving the parents piggybacks around the cage in the middle of the night and that's why they have Splayed Legs.


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

Don't give up because you've 'fallen at the first hurdle' donkey. Working with living creatures can have downfalls but we learn by them and move on to improvement, gaining experience as we go. I bred one litter of dogs, kept one and he ended up having two hip replacements at two years old, the other seven were all fine - it's just sod's law but I've not regretted any of it, he's getting on for nine now. You're such a caring guy and you'll be a great benefit to the pigeon world and any pigeon that comes your way. You can't give up on a passion so quickly and if you do you'll always wonder if you could've done better had you stuck it out. I'm sure you're made of sterner stuff than that donkey.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Thanks Fred that means a lot


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

donkey said:


> Maybe the chicks are giving the parents piggybacks around the cage in the middle of the night and that's why they have Splayed Legs.
> 
> 
> .


Ya know.....................can truly say that I hadn't thought about that, but you're right. That could do it. So now you just have to think of a way to stop that activity. Maybe it's the parents who need their legs strapped!


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

I like to think outside the box




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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

donkey said:


> I like to think outside the box
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You do mean the nest box, don't you?


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Hahaha nice one


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Hi Donkey

Don't know just where you are, but you could check the UK Pigeon Rescue group on Facebook, and there may (or not) be someone in your area.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/PigeonProtection/

You may or may not have already seen this page:

http://www.pigeonrescue.co.uk/splayleg.htm


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Thanks John


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

That would be great if there is someone in your area who could help. Thanks for posting the link John.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Where are you located, donkey?


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Northeast Of England


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

If you are anywhere near Middlesborough, there is a member on the Facebook group who works at Jacqui Paterson's Vets.


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## donkey (Apr 10, 2016)

Thanks for finding that John.


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