# Group seeks tougher penalties for killing birds



## Guest (Oct 16, 2007)

http://tinyurl.com/39b6kw


Group seeks tougher penalties for killing birds
Crime - An Audubon leader says two pigeon keepers got a slap on the wrist for killing hawks
Tuesday, October 16, 2007
MICHAEL MILSTEIN
The Oregonian Staff

Frustrated by the sentences of two Portland-area pigeon hobbyists who tried to kill protected hawks and raptors, the Audubon Society of Portland wants Congress to establish more severe penalties for killing migratory birds.

The group said U.S. District Judge Ancer Haggerty broke faith with the public last week by letting the two pigeon keepers off with $4,000 each in penalties and a year of probation.

Audubon leaders said the sentences for some of the most egregious offenses against birds in the region show courts do not take wildlife crimes seriously enough.

Prosecutors had sought fines of $10,000 each, and the defense attorney for one of the men suggested a fine of $7,500, said Bob Sallinger, conservation director at the Audubon Society of Portland. The prosecutors cited public outrage over the case, in which one of the men boasted of suffocating hawks in garbage bags.

The sentences issued by Haggerty were "nothing more than a stiff slap on the wrist," Sallinger said. Though the penalties were substantial for the charges -- misdemeanor violations of the Migratory Bird Treaty Act -- they did not measure up to the egregious nature of the crimes, he said.

"These cases send a terrible message to both future hawk killers and the community at large," he said.

Sallinger is talking with Oregon's congressional delegation about amending the Migratory Bird Treaty Act so that intentional, wanton killing of protected birds could be treated as felonies carrying much stiffer sentences. Jillian Schoene, a spokeswoman for U.S. Rep. David Wu, said Wu's office is discussing options with the Audubon Society.

Portland Mayor Tom Potter and Metro Council President David Bragdon both called for tough penalties against the men who targeted hawks and other raptors. Federal officials also received letters and e-mails from the public demanding serious sanctions.

Peter Kaufman and Ivan Hanchett were sentenced Thursday after pleading guilty. A third defendant has pleaded guilty but has yet to be sentenced.

Two others also have been charged.

Kaufman and Hanchett were leaders of a local group called the Northwest Roller Jockeys, centered on roller pigeons that are known for their habit of tumbling in flight. The tumbling tended to attract hawks and other raptors looking to prey on the pigeons, and the men described to undercover agents their practice of trapping and killing the hawks.

Kaufman had a trap set in his Southeast Portland backyard to catch hawks or falcons, agents reported in court documents.

Hanchett told an agent that Kaufman had killed 30 hawks in a 45-day period. Hanchett admitted shooting hawks on many occasions, including an incident in which he shot one with a shotgun that led Hillsboro police to respond to a report of shots fired.

Michael Milstein: 503-294-7689; [email protected] news.oregonian.com For more environment news, go to http://blog.oregonlive.com/pdxgreen


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Wonder how tough they'd want to get with people killing pigeons 

John


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

John_D said:


> Wonder how tough they'd want to get with people killing pigeons
> 
> John


I do know Bob Sallinger from Audubon Society and I can tell you that he would be just as angered with the same killing of any bird or animal. I have know him nearly 20 years and he has made many personal sacrifices to help creatures no one else thought of value...feral pigeons included.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Charis said:


> I do know Bob Sallinger from Audubon Society and I can tell you that he would be just as angered with the same killing of any bird or animal. I have know him nearly 20 years and he has made many personal sacrifices to help creates no one else thought of value...feral pigeons included.


He is a wonderful exception then .. there is much "snobbery" here in So Cal when it comes to most groups like the Audubon Society caring a whit for any non-native species. 

Terry


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Charis said:


> I do know Bob Sallinger from Audubon Society and I can tell you that he would be just as angered with the same killing of any bird or animal. I have know him nearly 20 years and he has made many personal sacrifices to help creatures no one else thought of value...feral pigeons included.


That's good news.

John


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I just had a chat with my friend Deb, who is the veterinarian at the Audubon Wildlife Care Center and we talked about the article posted in this thread. She and Bob Sallinger work very closely together and they have known each other for years and years too. Deb said that Bob's message is that cruelty to wildlife should have the same penalty be the wildlife native or not. Cruelty is cruelty and they will be advocating for stiffer penalties.  
FYI, both Deb and Bob have or have had pigeons.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

While it may be wrong for what was done. There needs to be some protection for people with birds Be it pigeon or chickens. Hawks do not seek out just rollers. ANY pigeon if its out is subject to be taken. I know nature takes care of its self. BUT man kind has changed nature for good. Taking the lands. killing the food chain and such. Balance says a certion amount of birds of prey can live in todays worl Take that out of bance and other birds song birds any bird is Over taken. Just as deer when over populated more are allowed to be hunted. Cooper hawks are at a level That has been higher then many who are here They Will there numbers over come other birds of prey and threaten there exsistance? Time will tell Remember man has changed the wild by claiming most of these lands I am not defending wrong But saying Does your pigeons need protection They are part of nature too.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

I agree with you R.E. its time that people look at the cooper hawks menu it includes many endangered birds.We have no way of telling how many song birds are killed by the cooper hawk. When a cooper kills one of my pigeons that has young I can raise that youngster but who will raise the song birds that are in the nest?? While our rehabbers do a woundful job you can be sure that they only cover a small part of the birds of the birds in need. I wish that people would think and not be lead down some primrose path. ..........GEORGE


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## JGregg (Jul 28, 2003)

When a hawk takes out a songbird (endangered or not) it is an act of nature, regardless of any artificial inflation of accipiter (short winged "true" hawks) numbers and retaliation by shooting the hawk in question is way out of line. If the same principle is applied to pigeons, the success of pigeons is due to their ability to adapt to man made environments (like the accipters) and attempting to control their numbers by poisoning or another means is just as wrong. When a hawk takes down a pigeon it is a natural occurrence, if you don't want your pigeons eaten by hawks protect them by flying them in a flight cage.

And yes, one of my pigeons was killed by an acciptier during its soft release.


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

John_D said:


> Wonder how tough they'd want to get with people killing pigeons
> 
> John


Theyd' probably give them a commendation for a public service


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

Charis said:


> I just had a chat with my friend Deb, who is the veterinarian at the Audubon Wildlife Care Center and we talked about the article posted in this thread. She and Bob Sallinger work very closely together and they have known each other for years and years too. Deb said that Bob's message is that cruelty to wildlife should have the same penalty be the wildlife native or not. Cruelty is cruelty and they will be advocating for stiffer penalties.
> FYI, both Deb and Bob have or have had pigeons.


Given the extremes gone to - i mean what's mentioned in the article, suffocating birds in garbage bags, who knows what else...I agree that they got off too lightly. There is something very wrong with mean people


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

It is fine to hope. But we have todays world. Agin man has changed the course of nature With that There is so much room for hawks, so much room for bears ,wolfs ect. To preserve certion types be it birds or animals Ares are put in refuge. Then controled culling is still done . Agin killing those coopers was wrong BUT can they be trapped relocated or put in aiveries The ones that are known to keep coming back Killing say YOUR birds. Its like If a hawk fed off say small dogs YOU bet somthing would be done to stop that. I like seeing the hawks fly And Know they hunt for food Its there way. Every time a bear comes into a town its trapped or killed Its just wanting food. I do not know the listed numbers of cooper hawks in THe U S perhaps some of you know. Then othere hawks. AND falcons that were brought in ONLY to kill pigeons In the cities Then bred and scattered. Balance And with human spread Balance is that reduced numbers Will happen. I can remember rabbits were just every where You do not see many now. All in all I say the laws do not not need to be stronger The hawks has made a strong return. The few that get caught up in killing and get caught Sure learn from there mistake I am sure. Pigeons are born knowing of the hawk. But the hawk is becoming lazy or lost coming to the towns for an easy meal. That is not hunting Its like going to Mc donalds Theres one everywhere. In the wild the hwak must hunt In town Theres something out of balance.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

I just thought that some of you might like to know what the Coopers hawk eats.Flickers, Woodpeckers Morning doves,Robins,Quail,Blue Jays,Meadowlarks,young Pheasants,takes Young Songbirds out of the nest,.........This list comes from the Audubon Society Encyclopedia of North American Birds.I am sure there other birds that the Coopers take we all know they take PIGEONS and they were not on the list. .GEORGE


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

re lee said:


> .......Its like If a hawk fed off say small dogs YOU bet somthing would be done to stop that. I like seeing the hawks fly And Know they hunt for food Its there way. Every time a bear comes into a town its trapped or killed Its just wanting food. I do not know the listed numbers of cooper hawks in THe U S perhaps some of you know. Then othere hawks. AND falcons that were brought in ONLY to kill pigeons In the cities Then bred and scattered. Balance And with human spread Balance is that reduced numbers Will happen. I can remember rabbits were just every where You do not see many now. All in all I say the laws do not not need to be stronger The hawks has made a strong return. The few that get caught up in killing and get caught Sure learn from there mistake I am sure. Pigeons are born knowing of the hawk. But the hawk is becoming lazy or lost coming to the towns for an easy meal. That is not hunting Its like going to Mc donalds Theres one everywhere. In the wild the hwak must hunt In town Theres something out of balance.


Interestingly enough, one of the vendors at work lives in San Francisco and
told me a story of how he had looked up in the air and saw a hawk flying
while carrying a cat who was still alive in its' claws. He was very concerned
that his mother's dog could be picked up like that and carried off and eaten
alive. I've seen a hawk sitting on a phone wire eyeing a cat underneath it. 
Another vendor told me a story yesterday equally shocking. While
in a Safeway parking lot, he saw something in the gargage can. He got
a little closer to see what it was and a Redtailed Hawk came out of the
garbage can w/a bag that had food in it and flew off w/the bag. This past
week, the hawks have been so plentiful that every where I've stopped to
feed the ferals, there has been a hawk or falcon. I've never seen the 
numbers be this high, this year it's been off the hook....

fp


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

I've seen more hawks, magpies, crows and ravens this year over past years. Part of it is directly related to the ever-encroaching urban-rural interface. We are displacing many creatures from their natural environment so either they are adapting to human "interference" or they continue to lose out in the race for survival. The magpies will get in the garbage and drag out food to eat. The little and big hawks have been displaced from a former wildlife refuge and are now hunting in the suburban and urban environment.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

*Read And Use Your Heads And Hearts ..*

The following was posted on the PML this evening (Pigeon Mailing List). This is APPARENTLY from one of the defendants who also happens to be the President of the NBRC. The post did not say forwarded or copied or anything, so I am only ASSuming that Juan Navarro actually sent this.

Terry
----------------------------------------

_Gentlemen: 

It with a big sigh of relief that I send you this email. I just got home from my final court appearance regarding the violations of the Migratory Bird act.

I submitted a guilty plea on 16 counts against me and received a plea agreement outlined as the following:

a) $10,000 Fines paid to the US Government (within 90 days)

b) $15,000 Donation paid to the LA Audubon Society (within 90 days)

c) 6 Month jail sentence (stayed as long as I do not violate my probation)

d) 5 years Summary Probation (Not supervised)

e) Secure and sign two placements of a letter in the NBRC Bulletin (all defendants will sign)

As much as I would have liked to fight this battle in court, it would have cost me somewhere between $100-200,000 to go to trial with very bad odds of winning.

Now that this is resolved I look forward to working with the appropriate agencies so that our (roller fanciers) side of the story can be told and documented.

I would like to thank each of you and all of the NBRC membership that have been so supportive during this difficult time.

Sincerely,

Juan R. Navarro

NBRC President_


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## JGregg (Jul 28, 2003)

Why does it matter what species a raptor uses as a food source? You are using the reasoning that it matters if your chickens or pigeons are killed and extending it to all chickens and pigeons. Then rationalizing your (I really don't mean you specifically) desire to control nature (which got all of us humans into this mess) to further alter things from the norm in an attempt to rectify the perceived problem. Raptors are protected, and they should be. What you are proposing is not a solution.


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## roxtar (Aug 21, 2006)

JGregg said:


> Why does it matter what species a raptor uses as a food source? You are using the reasoning that it matters if your chickens or pigeons are killed and extending it to all chickens and pigeons. Then rationalizing your (I really don't mean you specifically) desire to control nature (which got all of us humans into this mess) to further alter things from the norm in an attempt to rectify the perceived problem. Raptors are protected, and they should be. What you are proposing is not a solution.



You seem to be under the illusion that humans aren't part of nature .... That's a truly scary thought in itself, no less the utter disregard for a man's right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I think the protection of these birds has gone beyond the point of diminishing returns and has now reached the point of unintended consequences for both humans and for the birds themselves. Kind of the same way that the protection of Alligators in Florida became so absurd that it took a couple of 3 year old kids and a pregnant woman being dragged into lakes (along with countless numbers of family pets) in order to finally realize that these animals were getting to be dangerous. Sure, hawks may pose little to no danger to human beings but if a man wants to keep pigeons for sport he should be able to and taking away his right to protect his birds on his property just seems wholly unamerican to me.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

HI ROXTAR, I agree we have reached a point were your back yard is no longer yours. I now can not fly my birds because of small mined people and the dam hawks.I have a hawk thats been within 3 feet of me he shows no fear while I did not see him today I know that he was here as he leaves big white urate droppings.Next week I will be starting my Project Feeder Watch for CORNELL. This hawk will be attacking the song birds that come to feed here. It pains me to see this killer at work killing these song birds. GEORGE


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

george simon said:


> ...I know that he was here as he leaves big white urate droppings.


Interesting...now I know! A large hawk has 'found' my loft also and hangs around boldly, even sitting right on top of the flight pen. Of course the pidgies go in the loft! I don't think he can break in, I sure hope he can't.

I have seen these large white splatters and wondered about them. Now I know - that's evidence of his visits!

 Grrr


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

JGregg said:


> Why does it matter what species a raptor uses as a food source? You are using the reasoning that it matters if your chickens or pigeons are killed and extending it to all chickens and pigeons. Then rationalizing your (I really don't mean you specifically) desire to control nature (which got all of us humans into this mess) to further alter things from the norm in an attempt to rectify the perceived problem. Raptors are protected, and they should be. What you are proposing is not a solution.


 There many hawk breeding programs some of them are goverment grants. These programs were necessary back in the 1970's-1990's however the hawk has come back and these programs are still breeding and releasing hawks into the wild which has lead to hawks moving into areas that we would not normally see them (urban).So one thing that could be done is to stop all goverment funded programs.There still would be many private breeding programs that would fill the need.Keep in mind that many well meaning programs reach a point where they SCREW UP the normal. I believe we have reached that point.Rember these hawks kill many song birds that are on the endangered list,they don't just feed on pigeons.Just keep an open mind and think. GEORGE


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

JGregg said:


> Why does it matter what species a raptor uses as a food source? You are using the reasoning that it matters if your chickens or pigeons are killed and extending it to all chickens and pigeons. Then rationalizing your (I really don't mean you specifically) desire to control nature (which got all of us humans into this mess) to further alter things from the norm in an attempt to rectify the perceived problem. Raptors are protected, and they should be. What you are proposing is not a solution.


By protecting them WE ARE alter nature at this time. We as humans brought the change But with that change nature changed. We as humans are not hunted and killed. So we live longer and populate. Taking away the lands the food that different types birds and animal need to survive. Birth control for humans will one day become a must. As earth can only support so much. 
Loosin a bird or 2 is not so bad. BUT when the hawks take and take because they lack the real hunting they need. Some loose almost all there birds.Man not so long back lived for what 35 40 years. Life was harder Now man lives to the mid 70s. Life is easyer. Urban sprawl takes the lands. 
Some states are much worse as to population of man. Those states see more animals being displaced. Time to have thought was a 100 years ago. Nature MUST have its balance or something else suffers. Prey animals and birds only need controled to the point of there need of nature. Beyond that They out number there natural food source. It declines further to where new foods are now taken. Pigeons are born able to know the hawk is a hunter. And they survive But tame them some and the hawks learn they have an in town/city food source You have a problem. NO killing the hawks is not the answer. Limit hunts on there natural foods Yes. Protect more lands. Reduce urban spread But saying the pigeon is but food. And the hawk is better is that right. No. Animal rights is fine as long as its right. To not know then And call for great amounts of punishment. Is like kill your neighbor because he killed the mouse in his house. I believe the law as it is Has showed it works. And most people obey the law.


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