# Loft Floor, metal grating vs solid floor???



## pirk42 (Nov 17, 2016)

Hi, I am new here. Building my first loft. I am doing a 4x8 loft, and I live in the south (Georgia). Would a metal grate floor be best down here? I don't think drafts would be an issue as it rarely drops below freezing for more than a few days in winter. 

Very interested in opinions, I have read so much I am not sure which would be best. Thanks in advance. Also, if you guys have a newbie section where all the newbie questions are answered please point me in that direction.

thanks
Rob


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Hi Rob, welcome to Pigeon Talk. No newbie section, but you are welcome to ask any questions you may have. 
You will get so many different opinions on that one. I like solid wood, as it isn't hard to scrape, and allows you to keep an eye on the droppings and notice if they are off much sooner. Also, many grated floors will allow snakes or rodents into the loft. Not good. You still have to clean up underneath. But as I said, some just prefer to not have to scrape. So I'm sure you will get many different opinions, and then have to weigh and measure it for yourself.
Are you interested in racing, or just keeping birds for your enjoyment? What kind of birds are you interested in? How big of a loft will you have?


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## pirk42 (Nov 17, 2016)

Hey Jay, thanks for the quick reply. An old HS coach used to take me over to his dad's who had racing pigeons. We would take a load of birds and drive about 10 miles away and let them go. I was amazed at the circle pattern they made, and even more that they beat us back to the loft. Now years later, (been keeping chickens for years) I ran into him and he is keeping pigeons of his own. I went over and got all inspired and now I am building a 4 foot by 8 foot, but 6 ft tall loft. There are so many diff opinions on everything so I have changed my plans multiple times. Either way I am going to sink the 4x4's this weekend. Hope to get good advice on this site. The flooring is something I have to pick this week. I am not afraid to scrape and I have read the droppings are the best way to keep ahead of disease. Just don't want to regret my choice later.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

What does your old coach have?
Whatever he has, have you asked him why he chose it? Do his reasons make sense to you?


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

I would also check tax codes putting 4x4's in the ground or building on blocks, if you have it on blocks it is a temporary and here not taxed not sure where you live.

I like hard wood floors for the same reason easy to scrape and no snakes.
Dave


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

That's interesting about the tax codes. I didn't know that.


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## wildcat hunter (Jan 17, 2014)

Some have grated floors and made wooden sections to put over the grates during racing season. Some darken the loft too and wand solid floors to keep out the light. I would check / e-mail the best flyers and ask what they do. I find pigeon fanciers are a sharing group and are willing to help.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Being the best flyers has not much to do with the floors that are used I would think.
Consider all the reasons for and against and decide what is important to you.


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## pirk42 (Nov 17, 2016)

that is interesting about the taxes. My place is outside the city not in a neighborhood but they do tax 'structures'. My old coach has solid floors, and all the videos I watch and lofts I see online have solid floors except that 1%. I will post some pictures once I get things going, should have it framed up by the end of next week.


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## wildcat hunter (Jan 17, 2014)

Well, yes , it does matter what you have for a floor. If your loft has grated floors and the loft has a lot of open area in the eaves / roof / windows then yes you will have a draft ! A person can counter this somewhat by closing in "under" the loft floor with skirting on the outside - like they use on house trailers. That would stop or slow down a draft. Thats why some big names have installed solid floors over the grates. We all should know a loft that has too much air moving is bad for racers, they will not come into form. "Thats why you should check the successful lofts and see how they handle air movement in the loft !


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## Chuck K (Jan 12, 2013)

There are some older threads here that discuss loft designs. Some of them show pictures of the expanded metal floors. I have thought about doing that but I have also heard that the expanded metal can be a problem because of the sharp edges.

I can't seem to find it, but a fellow on here put up a build along of a racing loft he was building to house race birds in a comng futurity. he built the floor of 2X4 lumber spaced about 3/4 inch apart to allow for easy cleaning. It seemed like a sound concept. He had the loft raised off the ground, but one end of considerably higher than the other due to the slope of the land. If I were going that route or the expanded metal route I would want the loft a minimum of 2 & 1/2 feet off the ground.

Here is one of the threads. It shows a loft with the metal flooring. It is a very good looking loft. In the first picture in post 165, if you look at the flooring outside the window you will see a fiberglass grating. I knew a racing guy that had that extruded fiberglass flooring through out his loft. It is 1/2" X 1" and 1' thick. If I knew where to get it and it wasn't cost prohibitive I would build everything out of that stuff. It was great. It would hold weight, and it doesn't get cold in winter, and it doesn't have any sharp edges.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f38/prelich-loft-new-loft-construction-67565.html?highlight=racing+lofthttp://

This thread is the one with the racing loft build that has 2 x 4 with a gap as the flooring. I really like this loft. http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f38/new-one-loft-race-loft-under-construction-66609.html


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## Frank2620 (Feb 7, 2017)

This is much cheaper than the metal flooring I was going to buy .

About this item PolyMax Flooring improves animal health and bird productivity, while keeping kennels and poultry coops cleaner and drier.

. PolyMax Flooring improves animal health and bird productivity, while keeping kennels and poultry coops cleaner and drier-- A clean, comfortable floor keeps animals healthy and happy- Foot problems and breast blisters in poultry virtually disappear-- Rugged, non-porous polypropylene flooring inhibits bacteria growth-- Easy to clean and disinfect-- Will not rust or rot-- Black panels are 24 in x 48 in with 7/8 in square openings-- Panels cut easily to fit any dimension-- 1/4 in counter sunk holes comes in black only-- 1/2 in thick with 7/8 in square . 




TekSupply HA2217 PolyMax Non-Overlapping Poultry, Kennel Flooring


I added more support for my floor with green wood . Painted the floor wood and the inside of my loft with indoor out door paint . Then I used the above for my floor and built it on top of a trailer . So my loft is higher off the ground . Much easier to clean . As I just scrap the perches and nest boxes . Then I just rinse the floor off with the hose . Also , I just learned about liquid resistant paint . I'm looking into that now . I also have drawers under the floor to close if it gets to cold . But I don't really see a problem there , I live in Florida .



Now the bad news , I looking on here today for tips to keep snakes away from my coop . As I found a snake in my lowest nest box today . I relocated the snake a few miles a way and across the main highway . According to John Wayne a snake won't cross a rope . However, I'm not sure John was even a real cowboy . Therefore , If I don't find anything on here to keep the snakes away . I using John Wayne's trick . But with 2 bare wires around my coop just inside the skirting that I'll also add .Plug that in and see what the snakes think about that . 



Well best of luck to you ,



Frank


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

As I told you in your other thread, it's best to make a loft predator proof. That way you don't have to worry, and know that your birds are safe. I would rather scrape the floor and not leave it open to snakes and mice. Trade off for everything.


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## Frank2620 (Feb 7, 2017)

I've have built my coop in Sept and Oct 2016 . That was long before I've posted on here and or read any post on here . But I have read either your post and /or others stating the same thing as you have stated here .But that was after I've built my coop . However, I'm happy with my coop . But as you stated I've found a snake . "A predator ." So to try and correct the problem . I was trying to see if anyone has used moth balls and if they would bother the pigeons .As you stated that won't work , Then I'm going to try bare wires around the loft and plug it in .The wires would be just inside the skirting That should keep the snakes and or predators away and my pigeons safe . If that works the only bad thing that could happen , .....well that would be to me if I forget to unplug the wires before I use the hose .


Now that I have the mesh flooring I would like to keep it . Therefore , I'm looking for an answer to my problem . If I'm unable to find an answer to keeping my pigeons safe with the present floor . It wouldn't take long to cover the floor with plywood. .


I've seen many pigeon coops with mesh flooring on the internet before I built mine. Therefore , there must be an answer out there somewhere .


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## V-John (May 15, 2008)

I have both here. I LIKE and prefer the metal grating. With the air flow, the loft is cleaner, and the birds are healthier. Obviously you can run lattice around the outside of the loft to keep big predators out, but snakes probably could still get in. This might defeat the purpose some of the grating, but you could put down hardware cloth over top of the grating to maybe to keep snakes out


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## Frank2620 (Feb 7, 2017)

Thanks for the response . I have 1/2" by 1/2" wire on my fly pen that is 7 ' off the ground . I have read that a snake could still enter a space that small . However , I will be running lattice around the outside . Maybe hot wire just inside the lattice to fry the snakes . However , I really don't want to do that unless I really have to . Also , I'm thinking about taking my floor back up . I only have to remove some screws and it will lift right up .Then find the next size wire they make under 1/2" by 1/2" wire . Then tack that wire down on the floor . Then replace my mesh flooring over that . That may make it somewhat harder to clean , but hopefully safer


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## V-John (May 15, 2008)

Lattice around the sides, and hot wire tape or wire interwoven through the lattice would probably keep most critters out. I'm unsure if a car battery hooked to the hotwire would kill them, but it might. Something bigger then a snake, probably not. But it sure would deter them. I would think with the cloth and the wire floor would keep most critters out. Good luck, sometime, PM me a picture of it, I'd be interested to see what the final product looks like.


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## Frank2620 (Feb 7, 2017)

OK and thanks for the encouragement .I really want to keep my nesh flooring and my pigeons . 


Thank again,

Frank


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## alby68 (Mar 18, 2013)

I use metal screen material from my floor down to the ground, and about 6" deep into the ground, and then out away from the loft about one foot-also buried. and then I have the white plastic lattice screwed on outside that. hope you can follow that. seems to work so far, but snakes are amazing where they can get in. best wishes


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## Frank2620 (Feb 7, 2017)

alby68




Very nice lofts inside and out . I wish my loft was as nice as yours . So far I'm still considering just how I'll be going about this .Thanks for the tips . After the snake , I've removed the plants from under and around my loft . They were supposed to keep mosquitoes away .May have helped to bring the snake . Before the snake I cut down a line of trees about 30 or 40 feet in front of my loft . Now I'll have the stumps removed .




At this point I'm thinking of 2 rows of 1/2 " electrical conduit .Looped just inside the skirting about 2 or 3 inches apart , like train tracks . Then connecting 120 AC electric to the conduit connecter screws . 1 wire to each loop and plug it in . Strapping the conduit down to green 1 by 4's or something to keep them separated . The skirting , I'm thinking of metal roof sheets with added screened vents . My loft is on a trailer so I'll have to cut it around the axils . Now I'll add as you stated ,"some metal material out away from the loft about one foot-also buried . That should make it harder for snakes or mice to go under . Also , may keep the grass from growing next to my loft . Oh ,and pulling my floor back up to put the 1/4 " wire mesh under it .




Well thanks again . 

Frank


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## Frank2620 (Feb 7, 2017)

Now I'm thinking ...... If I pull my floor back up to put the 1/4 " wire mesh under it . I may not have to do anything else . That may make it somewhat harder to clean . But I think I'll try that first , instead of last . I think that would be the fastest safest and easiest thing for me to do . Then later I could add the skirting , and the buried metal material for a foot away from my loft . That should keep the grass from growing next to my loft . Making my grass easier to maintain . 

Well thanks for the feedback and tips .


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

That would probably make more sense to do it that way. The 1/2 inch hardware cloth should stop things from getting in. 
Just to mention that if you did do the hardware cloth that goes down straight under ground , then goes out a foot. That does work very well to stop things from digging under, as animals will come up close to the loft and then try to dig under. So the wire usually stops them. But rats dig down 18 inches, so going down that deep is better than a foot. I would try the hardware cloth under the floor first. Think that's a good idea.


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## Frank2620 (Feb 7, 2017)

Thanks for the reply . I would much rather use the 1/2 inch wire . But read somewhere snakes could still get in . So I was going to use 1/4 inch . Do you think 1/2 inch wire would be safe enough ? I thought the 1/2 inch wire would work . But I don't' know about snakes . 

Thanks,
Frank


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Not sure how heavy a gauge of wire you can get with the 1/4. I know the 1/2 inch comes in heavier gauge. You would need it heavy enough that rats couldn't chew through.
I know in Fla you has a lot of snakes. Here, I worry more about rats. But they are everywhere. Can you get at least 19 gauge in 1/4 inch?


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## Frank2620 (Feb 7, 2017)

I really don't know what gauge of wire they have . But I have some 1/2 inch wire left from when I built my loft . I don't know what gauge of wire that is either . However , it looked pretty heavy to me when I bought it . If the 1/2 inch squares would keep the snakes out . I would feel comfortable using what I have .

When I do the skirting I'll go down the extra 6 inches for the added safety. Sure we have rats in Florida too . I just been lucky so far . Then on the other hand , I was pretty lucky as far as snakes go , until the other day . Well I have to go take care of the pigeons and some other things for now .

So thanks again for the help .

Frank


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## chayi (May 1, 2010)

I have expanded metal floors and I live in the tropics so my loft is nice and cool and dry all the time even in the rainy seasons the rain goes through the metal floors and keeps My loft dry inside, its about 15 inches above ground and under it is a sand pit so I rake under the loft when i want to clean the bottom of the loft. I just can't imagine walking on so much poop on wooden floors mix with feed all over the place and when the rain season come having the floors all wet.... this is my hommers loft...


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If you scrape the floors, there shouldn't be that much poop. And with the right feeders there also wouldn't be seed all over the place.


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

chayi said:


> I have expanded metal floors and I live in the tropics so my loft is nice and cool and dry all the time even in the rainy seasons the rain goes through the metal floors and keeps My loft dry inside, its about 15 inches above ground and under it is a sand pit so I rake under the loft when i want to clean the bottom of the loft. I just can't imagine walking on so much poop on wooden floors mix with feed all over the place and when the rain season come having the floors all wet.... this is my hommers loft...


Exactly. I cringe when I walk into another fancier's loft and see extra uneaten seeds scattered among droppings. I don't understand how some don't have a sense of cleanliness! 

I live in the cold north called Minnesota and the winters are excruciating brutal, up to -40 degrees for weeks. I am considering an expanded metal floor for my next loft and want to know if there are any precautions in construction that I should consider; height off the ground, a panel to block off drafts from underneath, etc.


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