# What should I do?



## RichStevenson (Apr 2, 2006)

My wife and I bought a house out in the country last summer and since we've been here there has been a pigeon that has been very friendly with us. He would walk the edge of the roof following me as I worked in the yard, and actually would fly down to me and eat out of my hand. We've become somewhat attached to our new friend over the months but now he needs help.

Today my wife called me to look out the window. A hawk or other type of bird was attacking our pigeon. I ran out and scarred him off but the pigeon is beaten up pretty bad. His neck has a good size wound, although he was still bobbing his head while I was carrying him. He also has a wound on his body underneath one of his wings. I have him in a large box with bird seed and water right now, and it's been a few hours since the attack and he's still alive. I have him indoors so he's safe but I'm at a loss as to what I should do.

Should I try and wash is wounds and is there some antibiotic I can use like Neosporin?

Thanks for any help.

Rich


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Rich, and welcome to Pigeon Talk. Could you let us know your general whereabouts?

fp


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## RichStevenson (Apr 2, 2006)

Medina, Ohio. It's about 35 miles SW of Cleveland


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Rich,

Please clean the wounds, place the bird on a towel lined heating pad set to low and keep in a dark quiet place. You can put anti-biotic cream on the wounds, the ointment being bad for the feathers, however, the wound would take priority over the feathers right now. 

Here are some links for avian vets:

http://aav.org/vet-lookup/locate-vet2.php?query_field=state&search_string=oh

http://www.pigeons.com/prd.htm

http://www.tc.umn.edu/~devo0028/contactN.htm

In the meantime, a cup of water w/a pinch of sugar and salt would be good after being on the heating pad for a bit.

fp


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Here's another link for you for rescuing sick and injured birds:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=9457

fp


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## RichStevenson (Apr 2, 2006)

Thanks! I cleaned his wounds and applied the antibiotic. He's still very alert and his droppings appear moist. I'll contact a vet asap and keep the thread updated.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Thanks Rich,

He/she is a lucky little pij to land on your roof and have you both as friends. Hope all goes well at the vet's. Please do keep us updated.

fp


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Rich, 


Good going there...!


Yes, he might benifit from being on some antibiotics, oweing to how sometimes a Hawk's Talons may carry unfavorable bacteria which can infect the victim systemically...

The injurys may benifit from being sutured also, if they are tears or holes which are large enough...

Keep us posted...


Best wishes!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Rich and welcome to you, your wife, and your pigeon to Pigeon-Talk! Thank you so very much for helping this pigeon.

FP (FeralPigeon) has given you good advice. Please do keep us posted on the board as to what is going on and bless you and your wife for caring about this pigeon!

Terry


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Can you describe the worst of the wounds in any detail? They can get pretty slashed up and that, oddly enough, isn't usually the worst of it. Hawks kill by trying to punch their single back claws into the vital organs and it's deep punctures that are the biggest problem besides the possibility of infection as has already been mentioned. Do you have any actual leftover oral antibiotics that you haven't used in the house right now?

Pidgey


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Pidgey said:


> Hawks kill by trying to punch their single back claws into the vital organs and it's deep punctures that are the biggest problem besides the possibility of infection as has already been mentioned. Pidgey


Pidgey's right here and bacteria from a hawk's talons can be left deep inside these puncture wounds. They would need flushing every day and leaving open to heal from the inside out. If they are sutured closed or they scab over too quickly infection cannot drain out and deep tracking abcessess can result. Infection can be forced through the flesh and find another exit somewhere else, in the meantime putting the bird's life at risk. 
Pigeons are pretty hardy birds and many have recovered from serious hawk attacks. Main prioirty is antibiotics and keep those wounds clean. Hope this helps


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## EdMurray (Jan 28, 2006)

Great rescue Rich.
Poor little fella/gal...hope all goes well with your recovery efforts...you are definitely in the right place for expert advice and have greatly increased the chance of success by coming here!
Best wishes for your little friend,
Ed.


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Hi Rich,

My first bird had deep puncture wounds from landing on what you would probably call "pigeon deterrants". That is, a wall of spikes put up on the top of a building to deter birds from alighting. It is nasty but effective for adult birds who understand the danger. Mine fell on the spikes as a baby though and really had no idea of the risks. I got him as a 3 week old who's first experience in the big world was to get impaled on his first flight out of the nest.

I actually only discovered this recently. Only after returning to the site I originally found him and veiwing the building he dropped out of. He was punctured for sure but I never knew why or how till I went back for a closer look.

To treat his wounds and kill off any infection I used a strong solution of Isopropyl. Many would disagree with this as it can be painful to the bird. I am only telling you what I did at the time. I also applied Polysporin Antibiotic salve to the wounds afterwards. He survived. His wound cleared up after about 10 days I think now. My point is that you have to take the wound seriously. Treat it as if it is an injury that someone in your family suffered. Don't be put off with the objections of the bird. Just get gritty, do what needs to be done and let Mother Nature take care of the rest. Your bird will recover with good supportive care from you. Others here have given good advice on what to do but it is up to you to see the bird from your own eyes and make the right moves. Since he is in your care alone. Don't be afraid to do what needs to be done, that is what I am trying to say. 

Pigeons are tough little birds and can survive all sorts of mishaps with proper care. I look forward to hearing how it is going with your little one. 

Have you named him yet?

Cameron


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Hi again Rich,

Neosporin I think is the American version of what we call Polysporin up here in Canada. I had never even heard or Neosporin until I came this website. We are both talking about a topical Antibiotic though I think.

An important point I want to make, and I don't want to sound as though I am lecturing. Handwashing before treating an open wound is critical. I use a good quality anti-bacterial soap. The pigeon is more at risk of infection from you than you are at risk from the pigeon. 

I hope this helps a bit.

Cameron


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Rich, 

Cameron brought up some good points. It is important to wash hands before and after tending to the wounds. Frequently what is used is a dilute solution of either hydrogen peroxide or betadine in a ratio of one part disinfectant to 9 parts water. A good frequency would be twice a day, but you'll have to see
how the bird responds, it's own behavior. If the bird is mostly, not getting any 
debris from its cage/box or what ever set up you have, etc. Again, you're there
and observing, so you'll have to play some of it by ear. Hopefully you'll be able to get an appointment Monday and have the bird seen and prescribed for.
Must say, it almost sounded as though you're friend had been someone's pet the way he/she came down and landed, feeding from your hand. Thanks again for 
all you are both doing to care for him/her....

fp


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Hi Rich~

I just read your post. The pigeon is indeed a lucky one to have you guys, I am glad you were able to ward off a possible victory for the hawk.

I hope things go well. Are you keeping the pigeon inside all the time for now? I imagin he would be somewhat upset in an outdoor setting now, and would feel more secure in the confines of his human family.

Please do keep us posted and good luck.


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## RichStevenson (Apr 2, 2006)

Definately looks like I came to the right place for help. Thanks for all of the responses. 
We named him "CC" last summer. Being from the city and seeing pigeons downtown all the time someone at one time referred to them as city chicken. I know that sounds mean but it's what I remembered when we decided to name him, so "CC" came from that.
Instead of trying to describe his wounds, I took pictures for you guys to look at. He's very energetic this morning in that he trys to get away from me. Unfortunately it now also looks like his wing may be broken and his one legs stays laid back under his body.

I tried calling some of the numbers fp posted but nobody is answering, probably because it's Sunday. And some are listed for care of raptors and songbirds only. So I don't know if I'll be able to find anybody to take him. I do have a colleague that raises pigeons though. I'll talk to him tomorrow at the office.

I tried feeding him by hand this morning but he won't take anything. His droppings are still moist so I'm assumming he's not dehydrated at the moment.

All of you gave good advice but it's a little overwhelming. Can we all agree on what I should be doing for today? I just cleaned his wounds with warm water and a towel the best I could. Should I be soaking him a bowl of water to get things cleaned up better. I have also been putting anitbiotic topical cream on his wounds.

Thanks again to everybody. Here are the pixs of his wounds...

http://www.richstevenson.com/CC1.JPG
http://www.richstevenson.com/CC2.JPG


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

RichStevenson said:


> ....
> I tried calling some of the numbers fp posted but nobody is answering, probably because it's Sunday. And some are listed for care of raptors and songbirds only. So I don't know if I'll be able to find anybody to take him. I do have a colleague that raises pigeons though. I'll talk to him tomorrow at the office.
> 
> I tried feeding him by hand this morning but he won't take anything. His droppings are still moist so I'm assumming he's not dehydrated at the moment.
> ...


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hey Rich,

How close is Parma to your location?

fp


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Rich, we have a member who goes by the handle of 'sirpigeon' who lives in Parma. I private mailed and emailed him a link to this thread. I don't know how close he is to you, but perhaps either your friend from work or sirpigeon could get you started on meds and give you a referal from personal experience. This is always good. Keep up the good work w/your buddy. H/she needs your help.

fp


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Those are pretty nasty wounds. Hope you can get some antibiotic first thing in the morning.

Reti


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Rich,


It is hard to gauge from the images...but...

Do of course bring him to an experienced Avian Vet a.s.a.p if you possibly can.

The Back injury -

For now, keep it moist with the topical antibiotic, you do not want it to dry out. If this is merely lacerated skin, or if this is serious tears which have opened his body cavity proper, I can not tell, but, were you to one-at-a-time pluck ajacent feathers to make for clean wound edges and then a little more clear area, you could cover the wound area with some fine folded gauze or the likes, something fairly sterile of course, even paper towell bits, and saturate it first with the topical antibiotic ointment. If the body cavity itself is open there, you do not want the internal organs to dessicate...so, the better this can be closed off or sealed there pro-tem, the better for him.

The Crop injury -

If this is merely some lacerations to the skin, or if this is lacerations which involve the interior Organ of the Crop itself, is a serious difference also. Be observant to note if Water seems to leak out from the Crop area there when he drinks.
Likewise, keep this area moist with the topical antibiotic.

Probably there are Talon punctures there at the Crop which do in fact go all the way 'in'...and infection is a serious possibility for both injury sites and for him systemically.

If poops are still being made, this of course is good...larger whole Seeds may be inserted into his throat, but do not use too large of them. Small whole dried Peas would be as large as I would think wise...but, if he had been well fed before the incident, this is less important than if not.

Punctures in muscle can be flushed out with saline and or dilute Peoxide-Water or Betadine-Water useing an appropriate Syringe.

Punctures which communicate into the interior Organ houseing cavity of the Body are a different matter and should not be flushed out oweing to how the liquid will merely fill the patient internally since there is in effect no bottom to the puncture or tear or wound.

You can lightly roll a soft Towell and make a "U" shape for him to rest on, easing his Legs...

Keep him warm of course, in a small 3-side-covered Cage or Cardboard Box on it's side, and if you have an electric Heating Pad, set it up with a Towell on it and his "U" shaped resting pad on that...keep him free from breezes or drafts also.

If he is interested to drink on occasion, you can make him some light nutrient liquids and serve them tepid. "Nutrical" ( a goo in a tube, readily had at most Pet Stores) mixed with some non-alcohol Ginseng and clean non 'tap' Water is a nice chopice for this.

Should be no problem if he fasts a couple days, especialy if he is well muscled and had been eating well previous.

Otherwise, the strain of trying to feed him by hand, by any method, might not be worth it for now.

Have you a Vet in mind to see tomorrow?

Phil
Las Vegas


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## RichStevenson (Apr 2, 2006)

feralpigeon said:


> Hey Rich,
> 
> How close is Parma to your location?
> 
> fp


Parma is close. About 30-45 minutes. Please let me know if you get a hold of them.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Fluids are important, especially the IRS-a cup of water with a pinch of salt and suger. Dripped along the side of the beak the bird will swallow it usually. You'll want some food w/the antibiotics....

I noticed a blood feather @ the wound on his back, I think leaving the feathers be for now might be best til you have someone look at it. That would stress the bird and possibly you as well. If you've got the cream on the wound it should all right until tomorrow. Just reapply as needed.

fp


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

RichStevenson said:


> Parma is close. About 30-45 minutes. Please let me know if you get a hold of them.



Wish I had his number, but I don't. Hopefully he checks his email w/more frequency than I do, but I sent through both software programs.

Is he self watering or feeding?

fp


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

fp - great going to notice the blood feather. I went back and saw it too. Do you think if it should break that Rich could put flour on it. CC sure doesn't need to lose any more blood but I'm wondering if the flour would contaminate things too much.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Good thought Maggie, he could put a gauze pad or paper towel underneath the feather while putting the flour on it, should it become a problem. That should protect the wound site. I'm sure he's being as gentle in that area as possible and hopefully it will be fine. But now he knows what to do just in case.

fp


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## RichStevenson (Apr 2, 2006)

I haven't tried to remove any feathers simply because I don't know what I'm doing and don't want to harm him any further. By blood feather do you mean a feather where blood flows threw the stem of the feather itself? There has been no flowing blood out of his wounds since I found him.

I'm going to call our vet tomorrow. Hopefully she can help him or at least tell me who to call.

I got a hold of the guy at work and he told me there's not much I can do for him since a hwak got to him. But I'm not giving up. I'll let a vet make that decision.

How would I open his beak to feed him. Do I just open it from the tip with my fingers? I'm just so afraid or hurting him further.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Rich, 



It is fine to let them fast for a day or two...especially if prior to their mis-hap, they had been well fed...

The stress of opening his Beak and constraining him and so on to force-feed is likely not worth the gain at this time.

If there is a "petsmart" near you, you can get some 'Nutrical' and mix some of that with good, clean, pure Water NOT from the 'tap'...warm some of the Water to 'tepid', mix in a little 'Nutrical' and let him drink that if he is inclined to drink at all.

Please considre, one way or another, to close up or obturate with antibiotic ointment soaked plugs or pads, any openings (on his back) which seem to communicate into his Body Cavity proper...you do not want his interior Organs to dry out.

I am starting to repeat myself here, which usually preceeds or signals the part where the person loses interest entirely, if they have not already.

If so, please advise? and I will gracefully leave off...

Otherwise, best wishes of course, regardless...!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

RichStevenson said:


> I haven't tried to remove any feathers simply because I don't know what I'm doing and don't want to harm him any further. By blood feather do you mean a feather where blood flows threw the stem of the feather itself? There has been no flowing blood out of his wounds since I found him.
> 
> *That would be a new feather coming in with blood in the shaft. Look to the left side of the wound about mid way down. You'll see what we mean. I'm sure it'll be fine and that you're being careful.*
> 
> ...


*Give the hydrating solution first, is he on a heating pad on low w/blanky? At least should be in a warm spot without drafts. Get him going on the fluids first. That should perk him up a bit. Then you can gently use one hand over the head from the back to hold the beak w/thumb and index/middle finger. Use your forefinger from the other hand to push upward on top beak while the other hand's fingers keep the beak from closing again. It's easier that it sounds. And he has enough of a hook there to get a good position with your finger. I wouldn't give him a three course meal or anything, if he starts fidgeting too much after he's had some then just stop. 

Wait for a couple of hours after he's been hydrated to attempt getting some food to him. Again, it's not alot, just want him to have something to work with in his system.

The wounds look pretty moist, this is good.

fp*


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## RichStevenson (Apr 2, 2006)

pdpbison said:


> Hi Rich,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No I haven't lost interest in helping this little guy. In the pixs, the ointment is on his wounds. They do look like they're just lacerations and not deep where it opened the body cavity. I can't find our heating pad, but I have him in a box, indoors and out of the elements.


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## RichStevenson (Apr 2, 2006)

I just went to clean him up again and change his bandage on his back and there was what looked like reguirgitated bird seed coming from the wound in his neck. I washed it out with a seringe but that can't be a good thing.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

RichStevenson said:


> I just went to clean him up again and change his bandage on his back and there was what looked like reguirgitated bird seed coming from the wound in his neck. I washed it out with a seringe but that can't be a good thing.


If you have seed coming through the wound on the neck, then it has a puncture through to the crop most likely. I put in a call to Pidgey, he'll be checking in very soon. Skip food for now. Al least we know.

Hang tight he'll be on.

fp


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Definately not good. The crop is torn, it needs to be sutured asap.
I would look for an avian vet now, maybe there is one who does emergencies. If not first thing in the morning. The bird can become dehydrated very quickly, not to mention the infection that can start becoming systemic.
I don't want to scare you, but this is an emergency.

Reti


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

I found a thread that you might be interested in Rich.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=10040&highlight=crop+tear

fp


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## RichStevenson (Apr 2, 2006)

Through some phones calls I finally was put in touch with a guy in Parma. (Wonder if it's the same one you were talking about) I'll be dropping off CC tomorrow after work. Hopefully he'll make it until then.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Don't know his real name, you can ask him if he's a member here. Is he a vet, rehabber, or someone who breeds that's willing to stitch him up? When he heals up can you pick him back up if you would like to?

fp


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## RichStevenson (Apr 2, 2006)

Not sure. I didn't think to ask. I got his number from a licensed wildlife rehabilitator though. I'll ask tomorrow if I can get him back. Hopefully we can but if not the important thing is he is taken care of. I'll post back tomorrow evening, EST and let you guys know.
Thanks again to everybody.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Some avian vets will let you take back home if you pay as tho your own pet. 
Some places will accept pigeons as patients, but if the pij is determined unreleasable, they will put down even if fine as a pet. You just have to ask them in advance what their policy is.

Glad you were able to contact someone and get a referral, hopefully they will allow you to pick him back up after treating him.

fp


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

As soon as fp called, I had to run out again (been gone all day). Anyhow, Pierpont started off worse than this. It'd be nice to get the crop sewn up and as bad as it looks, it's actually a lower priority in my books. I had a rescue named Pierpont that was in worse shape for a longer period because a lot of the edges had already healed:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=11512

No, the worst probability here is the likelihood of infection further down deep that may go systemic. That's already been mentioned.

However, if you can clip the feathers around the crop wound and flush it with (warm) water so that you can get an idea of the actual wound into the crop, it may be a very straightforward sewing job. Homing pigeon people often do that kind of stuff as a matter of course (birds getting cut up is fairly common--hawks, wires, who knows).

The NeoSporin will keep infections down but it will not prevent the exposed tissues from drying out. That requires something like either sewing the holes back up (outer skin) or the use of a hydroactive dressing (fake skin and gel). Anyhow, you don't want to sew the skin up over the crop wound--it needs to be sewn up itself and allowed to heal (and it'll do it incredibly fast) and then you sew the outer skin closed.

Trust me, it's just plain painful to think about but it's not that bad. They can't tell you're working on the crop itself. You can sew it up and they just don't care although they don't appreciate being held belly up. They will, however grouse a little when you're sewing up skin--there must be more nerves.

You can use plain cotton thread (as bad as that sounds) but you want to leave enough tail to find it and remove it later. White's good--you can see it fairly well.

Pidgey


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## RichStevenson (Apr 2, 2006)

I'm sorry to say that CC didn't make it. We came home to take him to the guy who was going to care for him and it was too late.  

Thanks everybody for your help.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

There's no telling whether it was a systemic infection or a pierced vital that took a long time for him to come to his wounds. I'm sorry he didn't make it. Was there any behavior that indicated he was going downhill towards the last that you noticed?

Pidgey


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Rich, I'm very sorry CC didn't make it. His wounds were very bad looking and it is hard to overcome an attack like he had. You are to be commended for trying to help him and I know you'll miss seeing him.


On a lighter note, I looked at your website and enjoyed your wedding pictures. It was a beautiful wedding and I wish you the best.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I am so sorry for your loss. He had a wonderful life with you and cared for him to his last moment.

Reti


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Rich, I'm very sorry about CC, sometimes they can pull through, and sometimes there is something that we just can't see that is more than they can recover from. He had the enjoyment of your friendship and the stability of your feedings and that is alot. You did the best that you could, took him in, made him feel safe and comfortable, I know he knows that also.

fp


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

I, too, am very sorry CC didn't make it. Thank you and your wife for all your care, concern, and efforts to save him.

Terry


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## RichStevenson (Apr 2, 2006)

No there wasn't. I mean when I went to change his bandages he was very perky. He was even drinking from the seringe. I was very hopeful he would make it.



Pidgey said:


> There's no telling whether it was a systemic infection or a pierced vital that took a long time for him to come to his wounds. I'm sorry he didn't make it. Was there any behavior that indicated he was going downhill towards the last that you noticed?
> 
> Pidgey


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## RichStevenson (Apr 2, 2006)

Yes, he will be missed. Thanks for the best wishes.



Lady Tarheel said:


> Rich, I'm very sorry CC didn't make it. His wounds were very bad looking and it is hard to overcome an attack like he had. You are to be commended for trying to help him and I know you'll miss seeing him.
> 
> 
> On a lighter note, I looked at your website and enjoyed your wedding pictures. It was a beautiful wedding and I wish you the best.


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## RichStevenson (Apr 2, 2006)

Thank you. At least if I ever need help again I now have someone to take the injured too right away.



Reti said:


> I am so sorry for your loss. He had a wonderful life with you and cared for him to his last moment.
> 
> Reti


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## RichStevenson (Apr 2, 2006)

Yea I know. Just wish I could have done more to save him. I can't believe how attached I became to him. Thank you so much for the help you and others provided.



feralpigeon said:


> Rich, I'm very sorry about CC, sometimes they can pull through, and sometimes there is something that we just can't see that is more than they can recover from. He had the enjoyment of your friendship and the stability of your feedings and that is alot. You did the best that you could, took him in, made him feel safe and comfortable, I know he knows that also.
> 
> fp


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## RichStevenson (Apr 2, 2006)

I was very happy to try and help the little guy. He'll be missed.



TAWhatley said:


> I, too, am very sorry CC didn't make it. Thank you and your wife for all your care, concern, and efforts to save him.
> 
> Terry


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I'm so sorry CC didn't make it, Rich. I know it is even harder when it seems to be unexpected as he was perking up.

I'm sure he will be missed.


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Rich,

I'm so sorry that this couldn't have had a happier ending. It sounds like he was you and your wife's little buddy...I'm glad you were able to save him from the hawk and that at least he passed surrounded by people who cared for him. Thanks for trying.

Linda


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