# S-Spin is terrible pain. Help Please!



## vgri (Sep 7, 2004)

I don't know what to do. Since an hour ago, my bird is in terrible spasms. It cannot poop. His vent is opening and closing and nothing is coming out. His tail is going up and down full range. He must be in bad pain because he flutters his wings furiously. He threw up a little earlier and his crop is full still five hours after feeding. His whole body is contorting and his is pushing his feet back and clutching his toes. He's almost doing headstands trying to get it out. The little poop that comes out sometimes is more like a light brown mush and white, no worm like appearance as before. What can I give him for digestion? Should I take out the food that I put in his crop? I could try doing that using a syringe and a latex tube. I just cannot take looking at him struggling like that. He could not possibly last for long if he keeps like this. It is heart breaking. Please advice. 
Violeta


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Violeta .. this is really sounding like egg binding. Can you get some calcium into the bird .. the drug store should have calcium gluconate that you can give. Even some smashed up and dissolved Tums might help. You can also apply a little vaseline or other similar lubricant in and around the vent. If this is egg binding, warmth is extremely important. Can you feel an egg in the lower body? Feel carefully .. if it is an egg, you don't want to break it.

Terry


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## e0emouse (Jun 30, 2002)

Terry and Violeta,

I would be really surprised if this is egg binding, given the severity of the vomiting and other symptoms. It's possible, but usually if it is an egg bound hen, I would expect the behaviors to be a little different. If it is egg binding, then it is probably past the point where oral calcium will have much effect. If it is egg binding, she probably needs a shot of oxytocin to control the contractions, if she can deliver the egg vaginally. The egg may be too big to deliver.

Can you get her to an emergency clinic at all?

The other possibility is the PMV or other neuorlogical issue. Either way, it sounds like a shot of valium is in order to calm the bird down long enough to assess it and let it regain a little strength to deal with the problem. There is no doubt that this bird is suffering, and needs immediate medical attention. Is there a 24 hour vet nearby? They will often treat wildlife at no charge. Or, there might be a wildlife center that will admit it. Where do you live?

This bird is in extreme distress, and probably suffering a great deal. If you can find a vet, I would be happy to work with them over the phone. I am in Virginia.

Good luck to both of you!
Kimberly
Wildlife 911
[email protected]


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thanks Kimberly. Violeta in is Northern California. Perhaps near to Wildcare of Marin County, but I'm not sure. Please check for an e-mail from me in a few minutes.

Terry


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## vgri (Sep 7, 2004)

The wildlife center of the Silicon Valley is the nearest one. And that is where I volunteer I took in the bird yesterday so the wildlife coordinator would look at it. The only thing she gave me was the ibuprofen suspension, but it is true that the bird was exhibiting only seizures, and its poop was runny, white and green looking not too bad. The bird had a peaceful night. She didn't poop much today but it only started to spasm and flutter at about 4:00pm, 4 hours ago. I called the wildlife coordinator and left a message but have not heard back from her. I called two emergency animal clinics and one told me that there is no doctor in. the other one told me that they will euthanase it for free for me. I "milked" her crop and I am giving her plain water with a syringe in her mouth. Her poops are just a little bigger than pinhead. She calmed down for about 15 minutes but now she is twisting a fluttering again. I put some Neosporin into her vent and I asked someone to bring me some calcium or tums. Would I be able to get Valium from a pharmacy without a prescription? What painkiller could I get without a prescription?


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## vgri (Sep 7, 2004)

The phone number of the Emergency Animal Clinic next to me is 408 371 6252. If any one could call them and get them to come up with another solution than euthanase it would be great.

Please call me at 408 261 2708,
Thank you,
Violeta


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Violeta .. though it's almost midnight for Kimberly, I'm hoping she will call you tonight and that she can speak to not only you but also to a vet to help them make a proper diagnosis and treatment plan. You won't be able to get Valium without a prescription, and I don't know of anything over the counter that would be nearly that potent. There is a product called Rescue Remedy available at many health food/vitamin stores that might help calm the bird at least a bit. It is one of the Bach Flower Essence products. I'm sure you're frazzled enough without trying to get Rescue Remedy tonight, but I don't know what else to suggest to you right now.

I'll try to check back here a couple more times tonight to see how you and Spinster are doing. I have a couple of critical care pigeon patients here myself that I need to tend to for the next little bit.

Terry


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## vgri (Sep 7, 2004)

I will ask my boyfriend to go to Longs Drugs to get what you recommended. I will try anything. I have been holding this little one gor the past few hours and I cannot stand feeling the struggle and the fluttering in my hand. She is getting more and more desperate and for sure she is trying to eliminate something. There is almost nothing left in her crop or stomach so it must be an egg. The problem is that I could not feel any egg so it may be that it does not have a shell at all, or who knows what is in there. Right now her whole body is contracting very regularly, it must be that she got a break from the PMV seizures, but nothing is coming out. Should I give her the rescue remedy if I can find it? How could I help her eliminate whatever that is? The throwing up could be because I was handling her trying to restrain her from seizures. I will call the Emergency hospital again and mention nothing about the PMV, just tell them that it is a bird that needs help eliminating an egg. Please write back. I will probably be up as long as she is.
Violeta


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## phyll (Mar 15, 2004)

Violeta.
I'm sorry I cannot help you. I just wanted to say that when you call the Emergency Hospital, it would be better if you use the word "pet." These places are too eager to kill pigeons in distress. She will have a better chance if she is classified as a pet.
Good luck to both of you.
God bless you.

Phyll


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## vgri (Sep 7, 2004)

I called three emergency Animal Clinics and none would take a pigeon, or any bird for that matter. I told them that she has been contracting for six hours and they refused to at least give it a valium injection. Right now she does not display any PMV seizures but her body is making all eforts to eliminate. She has nothing in her stomach because I starved her, thinking she was sick to her stomac. I will try feding her some kaytee exact to which I will add some calcium powder. I will keep her close to me over night. Then I will start praying that she will make it untill tomorow when I will try to find a bird doctor.
Violeta


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## vgri (Sep 7, 2004)

No I do not keep her on the heat pad directly. I just set her on it for contrast while I took the pic.


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## phyll (Mar 15, 2004)

Yes, please try hard to get her to an avian vet on Monday. Do not delay ~ even if she seems improved.
I will pray for her.
Hope both of you will have a peaceful night.

Phyll


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

If you can get the Rescue Remedy, give Spinster some and pray that it helps to at least calm her (or him). If you give Exact, make it really thin so it will pass through the crop more quickly and easily. Hopefully the calcium boost will help also.

I do so hope that Spinster will gain some ground tonight. Bless you for all you have and are doing.

Terry


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## Swiphle (Sep 19, 2004)

*Prayers*

I hope everything works out for the S-Spin. I will pray for it tonight as well


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I was so sorry to find out that Spinster was in so much distress .

I will be thinking of you both this morning.

Cynthia


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## vgri (Sep 7, 2004)

I could not find any place open on a Sunday night, so she will go without Rescue Remedy or anything. I already put some 6ml of Kaytee Exact, a little yogurt and a little cefa into her, but that is it. To control her spasms I litteraly hold her down, but I do not know what she will do when I will fall asleep. Tomorow I must start my new job and it will be a hard day. I found a couple of avian doctors around. What charges should I expect for a consultation? What happens when the egg just does not come out? I hope that she will not need a surgery to get the egg out, poor thing. Also poor me: I just don't have the money. I may try calling other wildlife centers if I do not get anything done at mine. I wish I could turn the clocs back to about 3 pm today, when she was having only head tremmors, and her lower body was relaxed. If anyone that lives in California knows a place where I could have her look at for little $, please let me know and I will drive there. I am in west San Jose. Thanks to all of you for helping us through this. God help us tonight and always, Violeta


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hello,

The fact that she is a banded pigeon might affect the issue. She isn't wildlife and they will probably be wary of putting her down without authorisation. On the other hand it might deter them from giving a cheap consultation 

Did you give her the calcium glutinate? That would help strengthen her muscles and would be beneficial whether she has PMV, is egg bound or both at once. 

Cynthia


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## Karen 210773 (Mar 17, 2004)

I am so sorry to hear about s-spin, sorry but I could only suggest what I would do.... first I would put onto warm water bottle and make sure that plenty of water is given along with some runny formula, (I have used Kaytee myself and only had a problem with one of my birds who couldn't digest it which was really strange and told not very good for pigeons????, so if It has had kaytee, I would try something else, maybe chickcrumb, heat it up with hot water so it goes soggy and feed him or you could try babyfood. I would then get a cuttlefish score it up into squares and give pea sized lumps of it direct into the beak, cause if there is a possibility the bird is egg bound should help the process along with putting a little vaseline around the vent and massage, but please be careful to massage/hold the bird cause if there is an egg and accidently breaks inside the bird, the bird will die.... Sorry can't be of more help, sure more people will be on their way soon with more advise. Take care and really hope this one pulls through and has a speedy recovery!  - Karen x


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

You could also try placing her in a warm water bath to mid body, but her tendency to have fits would make this dangerous, she would need to be held very carefully.

I wonder if a gentle warm wet cloth or sponge placed in the region of the cloaca would have the same effect?

Whatever the problem is I find that warm water soothes and reduces pain and helps painful spasms. 

Cynthia


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

A very worrying thought to add to everything else, but could she have been poisoned? Did you check her vomit for anything suspicious?

Sadly, Avitrol poisoning would fit with the sudden onset, the gasping, the nervous symptoms, convulsions and vomiting.

Cynthia


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I am so sorry what your little bird and you are going through. This poor little baby is so very sick and professional help is needed asap.
Whatever the cause of his seizures, whether it is poisoning by avitrol, or another toxic substance, or PMV or eggbinding, iv fluids are needed.
Especially if it poisoning he needs iv fluids to flush the kidneys.
Untill you can take him to a vet or wildlife center, I would not give him any food, just pedialyte, and as much as you can water. You could add some sugar and calcium to the water, whether it's tums or some other form of calcium, it doesn't matter.
Also valium for the seizures would be recommemded.
Keep him warm, please. The warmth helps relax the muscles.

Please keep us updated and I wish you the best of luck with this poor baby.

Reti


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## e0emouse (Jun 30, 2002)

Violeta,

I am so sorry, I was having problems with the computer last night, and did not get your or Terry's messages until this morning. You must be so tired and frustrated. Did she make it through the night? I cannot imagine what you must be going though, with starting a new job today and caring for Spinster all night. Terry emailed me your phone number, but I hesitate to call you at 5:30 in the morning, in case you haven't slept all night. Please let us know what is going on. Take care, and bless you for your devotion to this little bird. Wishing you both all the best.

Kimberly


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## Scuiry (Jul 11, 2001)

vgri said:


> The wildlife center of the Silicon Valley is the nearest one. And that is where I volunteer I took in the bird yesterday so the wildlife coordinator would look at it. The only thing she gave me was the ibuprofen suspension, but it is true that the bird was exhibiting only seizures, and its poop was runny, white and green looking not too bad. The bird had a peaceful night. She didn't poop much today but it only started to spasm and flutter at about 4:00pm, 4 hours ago. I called the wildlife coordinator and left a message but have not heard back from her. I called two emergency animal clinics and one told me that there is no doctor in. the other one told me that they will euthanase it for free for me. I "milked" her crop and I am giving her plain water with a syringe in her mouth. Her poops are just a little bigger than pinhead. She calmed down for about 15 minutes but now she is twisting a fluttering again. I put some Neosporin into her vent and I asked someone to bring me some calcium or tums. Would I be able to get Valium from a pharmacy without a prescription? What painkiller could I get without a prescription?


There is a place on Middlefield Road in Palo Alto that will take pigeons - at least feral pigeons. 

Emergency Veterinary Clinc Inc
Address: 3045 Middlefield Rd, Palo Alto, CA 94306
Phone:	(650) 494-1461

I think your bird is egg bound and the egg will have to be decompressed so it will pass. But let them help you. If it is a wild pigeon they will take it at no charge.

Good luck,

Daniel


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## e0emouse (Jun 30, 2002)

Cut off the band. It's a wild pigeon.
Kimberly


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## Scuiry (Jul 11, 2001)

I didn't realize it was banded. Take it to Wild Care in San Rafael. 

Wildcare
Address: 76 Albert Park Ln, San Rafael, CA 94901 
Phone415) 456-7283
http://www.wildcaremarin.org/

Good luck,


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## Scuiry (Jul 11, 2001)

*S-Spin*

I should just give you all my Bay Area contacts:

Boulevard Pet Hospital
Address: 3489 Castro Valley Blvd, Castro Valley, CA 94546 
Phone510) 538-1302
http://www.boulevardpethospital.com/

Dr. Schuchman is my vet and he will treat all pigeons, wild or tame.

Good luck again,

Daniel


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## Scuiry (Jul 11, 2001)

*Don't Cut The Band*



e0emouse said:


> Cut off the band. It's a wild pigeon.
> Kimberly


Sorry to disagree but if she does that then whoever takes the bird will release it and it will eventually die of starvation.

d.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

I think the band is one of the solid metal and acrylic ones anyway .. Violeta wouldn't have anything that would be able to cut it ..

Terry


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## vgri (Sep 7, 2004)

My dear friends, 
I cannot tell you how sad and pained I am. My beautiful S-Spin died this morning at 5, in my hand. Last night I gave her Kaytee Exact with calcium added, but by that time, the determined, unmoved look that she had in her eyes since she got really sick yesterday, was gone, and instead her pupils looked scared and exhausted, asking for help. At about 1 am I started putting a warm wet wash cloth on the lower part of her body in the vent area, hoping that she would eliminate but it was in vain. Her crop was getting fuller and fuller as I kept giving her water to drink. At that time I wished I had a way to inject liquid under her skin, but I had no syringe nor liquid. She seemed thirsty all the time, so I went to bed holding her nest to my chest, my fingers holding her head from twisting sideways. She calmed down eventually and at about 3 am I put her in the basket next to my bed, with a heating pad turned on low under her linings. I also covered her lightly because, in case the spasms would restart, having a light confinement seemed to help her keep down the fluttering. She did not flutter though. She rested peacefully and she gladly received the water at 4 am and at 5 am. At 5 her lining were still dried and clean: nothing went through her digestive system since I fed her at about 10 pm. I also turned the heat off thinking I would let her cool down for a minute. Less than five minutes after that I heard her move, I reached into the basket and felt that she was hotter than before and she was throwing up. To my horror I realized that instead of turning the heat pad off I turned it up a notch. I immediately grabbed her and took her out. Her crop felt empty, she had thrown up everything. After holding her for one minute, she gave up. 
Thank you to all of you for making me feel less alone through this. It is unfortunate and frustrating that the emergency hospitals that I called discriminate so badly. 
All the best to you guys and good luck with your birds. Take good care of them. They are so beautiful.
Violeta


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Dear little Spinster, she passed surrounded by love and in your tender care.

I am so very sorry that she couldn't stay!

Cynthia


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## Karen 210773 (Mar 17, 2004)

I am so sorry to hear that she never made it, keep your head up high and be proud, you done everthing possible and gave this bird the hope and love it truly deserved. Take care and thank you for all your efforts and determination. x


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Poor little Spinster. Thank God you were there for her. She couldn't have had better care and more love than you gave her.

Bless you

Reti


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Violeta,

I am so very, very sorry that Spinster wasn't able to hang on and overcome whatever the problems may have been. You did everything you could for her, and she knew she was safe and loved at the end.

Thank you for everything you did to help this beautiful bird.

Terry


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## phyll (Mar 15, 2004)

Violeta,
I am so, so sorry for your loss. You did the best you could & she knew you were trying to help her. She passed feeling safe & loved.
Take care of yourself.

Phyll


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## e0emouse (Jun 30, 2002)

Violeta,

I am so very, very sorry that Spinster lost the good fight. How blessed she was, though, to have you protect her and help her through it. You did a terrific job, and you were amazing and selfless through this whole thing. I am so sorry that your first day of work had to start like this.

Get some rest. God bless you and the Spinster,
Kimberly

P.S. For those concerned, I assumed that when I suggested she cut off the band, that the bird would come back into her care!


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## stella (Jun 10, 2004)

I am sorry for your loss and your heartbreak.


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## Swiphle (Sep 19, 2004)

**

Im very sorry for your lose  . Made me teary eyed reading your last post. I have a sweet little Pij that is going through rough times right now too


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