# Would this work for a double widowhood system?



## zimmzimm3 (Aug 17, 2007)

I am trying to understand widowhood and double widowhood i have read books and researched it on the internet and i would like to see if this schedule would work. The Friday before the first race after the cock and the hen have been fed i let them together for 30 minutes. Then i separate them. Every Friday after that they get put together for 15 minutes. Then After they race i will leave them together for about 2 or 3 hours? Would this be a good schedule? Can i fly every bird when i use this system? Also i read somewhere on the internet that YBs on the light system are mature enough after the first race to be flown on the double widowhood system. Has anyone ever heard of this?


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## zimmzimm3 (Aug 17, 2007)

Would this be an ok system?


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## k-will (Dec 15, 2007)

on the darkening system i flew widowhood 1 year because of a huge loss of hens and double widowhood many years.it works,trust me.

what you just desribed as a schedule is very basic,but a good starting point.once the birds figure certain things out,you have to do some modifications to spark interest sometimes,plus other tricks that will work.main thing is never let them see each other until its time.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

zimmzimm3 said:


> I am trying to understand widowhood and double widowhood i have read books and researched it on the internet and i would like to see if this schedule would work. The Friday before the first race after the cock and the hen have been fed i let them together for 30 minutes. Then i separate them. Every Friday after that they get put together for 15 minutes. Then After they race i will leave them together for about 2 or 3 hours? Would this be a good schedule? Can i fly every bird when i use this system? Also i read somewhere on the internet that YBs on the light system are mature enough after the first race to be flown on the double widowhood system. Has anyone ever heard of this?


The difference in widowhood and double widowhood is that in widowhood you fly ONLY the cocks. On double widowhood you fly both. The basic concept is the same for both. No looky seey during the week ......only on shipping day. Some people say only show the hen for 15 minutes and NEVER let the cock tread the hen. Some say show the cock the nest bowl but not the hen and that he will learn that his hen is there waiting for him AFTER the race. Some say leave them together after the race for a couple of hours. Some say leave them together all day. It's the same as with anything else in pigeons. Everyone has their own "version" of the way things work and of course THEIR version is better than anyone elses. You've just got to go with the basics and then do whatever you need to, to get your birds motivated. There is no clear cut, simple way to do any of it because your pigeons will be different from other peoples pigeons. What motivates their birds, may or may not motivate your birds. And even with your own birds, you'll learn that different things motivate different birds. That's what makes it all fun. Learning YOUR birds and what makes them tick. If we all did the exact same thing, how boring would THAT be?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

OH, forgot about the YB's. I've told this many many times, but I'll tell it ONE more time for you.  
We tried flying our YB's on double widowhood. First of all, it's very time consuming and it just plain didn't work for us. WAY to much work for me. After trying it for our first two week end races ever, and keeping the birds separated all week, etc., etc.,..........the third week, we opened up the loft and the nest boxes and let the birds do what ever they wanted to do and won our first race that week end. The next week, we took a 2nd place and wound up winning one other race and one more 2nd place that first YB season. Probably was a few 3rd's in there. Don't really remember. But that was our first year racing. 
I personally will NEVER try the widowhood with YB's again.


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## zimmzimm3 (Aug 17, 2007)

Thank You very much Lovebirds so would my original schedule thing be a possibility? I am just trying to understand how it works and it is easier for me to learn it by example. Thanks again


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## k-will (Dec 15, 2007)

thats a shame to hear renee that it didnt work for you.there are some things you have to consider when attempting to fly double widowhood in ybs.first off,the birds must have reached sexual maturity,so that they are taking mates,or atleast chasing and playing house.so,you must have earlier ybs for it to work.secondly,i found that when i trained my ybs at around 100 days old,even if only out to 30 miles or so,they seemed to mature faster,and would play house earlier.i dont know why this is.i think it gets their attention.third,i believe some families of pigeons dont mature as fast as others,and if you couple that with not breeding early enough,that would shoot it down the drain before you even get started.birds not playing house arent gonna take the system.then you are just flying pigeons to the perch.also,i have seen others that tried the system and their birds were just not in super health,therefore no system is going to work.i can only say that after the 1980s passed,i could not have won where i fly without using the darkening system with double widowhood.renee,i would also point out you said it was your first year flying ybs.this in itself would have been a factor.i couldnt have imagined flying a system like that in my first year.never say never.you may not have many or any flying a system in your area,but if you ever do and he or she gets it right,you wont be able to win without following suit.this i have seen and been the one that done it.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

k-will said:


> thats a shame to hear renee that it didnt work for you.there are some things you have to consider when attempting to fly double widowhood in ybs.first off,the birds must have reached sexual maturity,so that they are taking mates,or atleast chasing and playing house.so,you must have earlier ybs for it to work.secondly,i found that when i trained my ybs at around 100 days old,even if only out to 30 miles or so,they seemed to mature faster,and would play house earlier.i dont know why this is.i think it gets their attention.third,i believe some families of pigeons dont mature as fast as others,and if you couple that with not breeding early enough,that would shoot it down the drain before you even get started.birds not playing house arent gonna take the system.then you are just flying pigeons to the perch.also,i have seen others that tried the system and their birds were just not in super health,therefore no system is going to work.i can only say that after the 1980s passed,i could not have won where i fly without using the darkening system with double widowhood.renee,i would also point out you said it was your first year flying ybs.this in itself would have been a factor.i couldnt have imagined flying a system like that in my first year.never say never.you may not have many or any flying a system in your area,but if you ever do and he or she gets it right,you wont be able to win without following suit.this i have seen and been the one that done it.


I believe everything you say. I do raise early birds and by the time we're training them, I know probably 95% who's a cock and who's a hen. AND, I'm sure that it probably would work if you put the time in. My main problem is the time that it takes. Young birds are not as dependable on coming home as the old birds are. While we were training, we'd release the hens first, wait 1/2 hour or so and release the cocks. With the idea and plan of course, that the hens would come in first and get put into their side of the loft before the cock birds came in. For the most part, that worked, but when you're talking about training 50 or more birds and young birds at that, there will always be those few stragglers, so if I had say 5 hens that didn't make it with the group, now I've got to spend a big part of my day waiting for a hen to show up and get her out of the cocks section, which means, I've got to chase all these birds around trying to catch one bird. Everybody that knows me will tell you that out of all the things involved in flying pigeons, trying to catch them is the part I hate the most. On all my training tosses, I either go out after dark and catch them or get up before the sun comes up and catch them. Much easier on the birds AND me. I absolutely, positively HATE shipping day during young birds. I simply dread having to go out to the loft and catch birds. Granted, the fact that our loft is probably bigger than it should be doesn't help matters. Those little buggers can just fly right over my head, BUT, there's nothing I can do to change that, so I have to live with it. 
THEN, you'll ALWAYS have more cocks than hens or the other way around and what do you do with those odd birds? 
AND, the way you have to train them is dangerous. If ALL of your hens have a bad toss and you lose a bunch, well, then you're screwed. We all know that a smash toss is almost inevitable at some point during training, especially in YB's. In fact, that year, my husband released the hens, I believe there was like 30 or so. They all came home in good time just fine. 1/2 hour later he released the cocks, about 35 I think, at around 9:00 in the AM. At 5:00 that afternoon, we had 5 cocks in the loft. A few came in the next day, but we wound up loosing over half of our cocks. Now, what happened with them? Were all my cocks sick but none of the hens? I don't think so. Just another one of those weird things that happens sometimes for no apparent reason. In fact, we had so many YB's that year, that the night before this toss, we had signed our commitment form to fly 2 teams of birds. So, we paid and flew two teams just like we said we would. I had about 15 birds and my husband had about 15. That sucked!! 
So, for someone who has the desire and time and thinks that they have an edge by flying YB's this way, then more power to them. 
PLUS, no one here flys this system with YB's. Most everyone we fly with has way less time to mess with birds than I do, so that's not a concern. 
You are right about one thing though. IF lots of my competitors took to flying this system in YB's and the only way I could win was to join the crowd, I'd probably have to figure out a way to do it, but I don't see that happening.
So for now and as far into the future as I can see............I'll stick to flying the regular old natural system in YB's.
Now, I don't just fly my young birds to a perch. They do have the middle section of the loft with 32 nest boxes and they pair up and even lay eggs, so my YB's are flying back to box, nest and eggs. Most of them anyway.


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## k-will (Dec 15, 2007)

so you are flying natural.youre sneaky renee.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

k-will said:


> so you are flying natural.youre sneaky renee.


ME????????????? 
I fly natural because, for one they are not allowed to raise babies. They get dummy eggs always AND, you've always got enough birds to choose from for shipping that if one has laid an egg or is going to lay an egg, it's no big deal to keep her home and ship another one.


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## k-will (Dec 15, 2007)

the part that sounded like the most trouble for you was trying to train both sexes the same day.the way to beat this is,you train both sexes together until a week before the first race.train the sexes every other day so the others are locked up.by this point your birds should be conditioned well anyway.try a practice race-putting birds together,in the crates,take them maybe 70 miles,then give them some time together,separate.the week of the first race,train sexes evry other day.if you get a bad weather day,the sex that went last stays home.once races start,each sex gets a 70 mile toss and on a great weather week,maybe a 35 miler thrown in.this way you only worry about 1 sex at a time.you can also loft fly for the "time on wing".as the series goes on you need less and less training.thats how i made it work.had the same problems you had at first.also i might add that you know the system is working when the birds go up and fly 3 and 4 hours and you worry about to much air time.i used to beg the cocks to come down sometimes to the point my wife was taking video clips of this maniac in the backyard that amused all of our friends i will tell you.as for the losing too many of one sex this way.my very best yb season ever,i lost 11 out of 12 hens and 9 out of 12 cocks before the 1st race even started.this left me with 4 pigeons.the hen turned up lame,so i stocked her,and used old bird hens to motivate the young cocks.i won 6 out of 9 races with 2nds and 3rds in the races i didnt win with 3 cocks flying 15 bird limit races.now the work part renee,i cant argue that a bit.it is alot of work.and i hate catching birds too.thats why i built my loft ceiling so low,and am teaching my daughter to catch them.she rocks!


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

k-will said:


> the part that sounded like the most trouble for you was trying to train both sexes the same day.the way to beat this is,you train both sexes together until a week before the first race.train the sexes every other day so the others are locked up.by this point your birds should be conditioned well anyway.try a practice race-putting birds together,in the crates,take them maybe 70 miles,then give them some time together,separate.the week of the first race,train sexes evry other day.if you get a bad weather day,the sex that went last stays home.once races start,each sex gets a 70 mile toss and on a great weather week,maybe a 35 miler thrown in.this way you only worry about 1 sex at a time.you can also loft fly for the "time on wing".as the series goes on you need less and less training.thats how i made it work.had the same problems you had at first.also i might add that you know the system is working when the birds go up and fly 3 and 4 hours and you worry about to much air time.i used to beg the cocks to come down sometimes to the point my wife was taking video clips of this maniac in the backyard that amused all of our friends i will tell you.as for the losing too many of one sex this way.my very best yb season ever,i lost 11 out of 12 hens and 9 out of 12 cocks before the 1st race even started.this left me with 4 pigeons.the hen turned up lame,so i stocked her,and used old bird hens to motivate the young cocks.i won 6 out of 9 races with 2nds and 3rds in the races i didnt win with 3 cocks flying 15 bird limit races.now the work part renee,i cant argue that a bit.it is alot of work.and i hate catching birds too.thats why i built my loft ceiling so low,*and am teaching my daughter to catch them.she rocks!*


Looking for someone to adopt her??? LOL
Just kidding. I usually put my husband to catching them. He doesn't spend as much time in the loft as I do, so him chasing them is not a big deal because the don't "know" him like they do me. I get the easy ones. The ones that are in a box. LOL


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## k-will (Dec 15, 2007)

*sneaky*

i would love to see him chasin the birds and you just hanging back with a grin on your face.tell me it aint so.


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## zimmzimm3 (Aug 17, 2007)

What are some downsides to flying to perch? This is just that they all get a perch and then they come home right?


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## k-will (Dec 15, 2007)

yes zimm thats right.but,that is the only motivation to come home for the most part.in a system,you have the "mate",a box,and the fact you do it along with darkening or lighting which gives full wing for races.all together it is a big advantage.its not any one thing you do in pigeon racing,its the total of all the things you do right that help you win.super health-system done properly-feeding proper-proper loft-best birds to breed from-proper husbandry-etc


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## zimmzimm3 (Aug 17, 2007)

ok thanks everyone


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## zimmzimm3 (Aug 17, 2007)

One more question lol. When you fly widowhood can you fly all of your OBs or can you only fly half your hens (there mate stays home) and half your cocks (there mate stays home)? Thanks


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

zimmzimm3 said:


> One more question lol. When you fly widowhood can you fly all of your OBs or can you only fly half your hens (there mate stays home) and half your cocks (there mate stays home)? Thanks


You can fly any of them you want to any time you want to, provided they are in condition to do the race. I personally empty my loft on the first race. EVERYBODY goes, because it's the shortest race of the season. After that, I pick and choose who goes and who stays based on how they returned home from the last race.


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## zimmzimm3 (Aug 17, 2007)

Can you use the light system with with OBs?


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## k-will (Dec 15, 2007)

no,you dont ever light old birds.most fly old bird races before the birds get much of a start in the moult anyway,so there would be no reason to do that.you wouldnt possibly have time to get them thru the moult when you fly old birds in the spring.


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## zimmzimm3 (Aug 17, 2007)

k-will said:


> no,you dont ever light old birds.most fly old bird races before the birds get much of a start in the moult anyway,so there would be no reason to do that.you wouldnt possibly have time to get them thru the moult when you fly old birds in the spring.


Ok thanks just trying to understand everything.


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