# eye sign ?



## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

does anyone here use eye sign to pick breeders or racers. I picked up an old book on the subject and want to ask around to get some tips when looking at the eye. a friend of mine said he looks at the eyes and if the sign is at or near 2 o'clock in the eye it would be a good breeder. If the sing is at 7 o' clock it would be a racer.


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## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

ERIC K said:


> does anyone here use eye sign to pick breeders or racers. I picked up an old book on the subject and want to ask around to get some tips when looking at the eye. a friend of mine said he looks at the eyes and if the sign is at or near 2 o'clock in the eye it would be a good breeder. If the sing is at 7 o' clock it would be a racer.


Well my theory of eye sign is simple, "it takes two"!

with that said the eyes tell me if a bird is in good health, but cannot by themselves tell you if you have a good breeder or racer. 

you must have the total package for it to go into my stock loft, good wing, back. chest, tail, ( i like a thin tail) health and then lastly I look at the eye.

the yellows i try to put back on pearls or other yellows, the pearls will occasionaly go back on another pearl but I try to avoid it, I dont like the washed out eye sign that occasionaly comes from breeding like eye signs together. 

I have found that by putting yellows to pearls each generation seems to be richer in color than the last.


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## jtronics (May 6, 2012)

if theres a person who can see if pigeon is racer or breeder by just looking at the eyes he/she can be a millionaire.. 

if eyesign is true that will be the end of pigeon sport.. coz it will be belong to the hand of rich people..


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

Or it could make a poor person rich, so you are right it would belong to the rich. LOL
Dave


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

If breeders and / or racers could be selected using eye sign someone would have proven it to be fact by now and the racing world would have been changed. 

Just sayin... Don't put to much stock in eye sign.


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## Pollo70 (Jan 3, 2012)

ERIC K said:


> does anyone here use eye sign to pick breeders or racers. I picked up an old book on the subject and want to ask around to get some tips when looking at the eye. a friend of mine said he looks at the eyes and if the sign is at or near 2 o'clock in the eye it would be a good breeder. If the sing is at 7 o' clock it would be a racer.


What part of the eye or marking needs to be near the 2 o'clock and 7 o'clock mark to read the eye sign ?


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

I know this would be one of those subjects that many would be on one side or the other
There have been people that could go into your loft and pick your best bird just by looking at them
Maybe the eye has something to do with it or not but I've read the Janssen brother used the eye color when breeding and we all know how good there birds were. Also people will say that you could see a bad bird with good eye sign but never a champion without good eye sign, so maybe not 100% but a tool none the less .


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## Pollo70 (Jan 3, 2012)

True that! ERIC K


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## Rod Hultquist (Aug 23, 2009)

Most fanciers that I have questioned over the years echo the sentiments of those who have responded. However, you could check out this website explaining their thoughts on eye sign
http://www.tourdesmaritimes.com/Eyesign/Eyesign101/myron_kulik_intro.htm


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## Pollo70 (Jan 3, 2012)

Rod Hultquist said:


> Most fanciers that I have questioned over the years echo the sentiments of those who have responded. However, you could check out this website explaining their thoughts on eye sign
> http://www.tourdesmaritimes.com/Eyesign/Eyesign101/myron_kulik_intro.htm


Thanks for sharing that should answer all questions about eye sign


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

Eyesign.....Feathering.....Muscle.....Body Structure.....Balance....Smarts....Tuffness...etc...
*Is what makes up a great pigeon....*
I once found a baby squeaker wild pigeon in my loft...It had the BEST eyesign I have ever seen...Put a band on the baby and let it go....It had a body and feathers that were utterly horrible.....Everything about the pigeon was horrible except the eye.....It took me a few weeks for this to hit me why...The wild pigeons only mate for eyesign,and nothing else....Alamo you say,your crazy !! Wild pigeons mate with whomever they want...Yes they do,but to live out their lives,the only thing that matters is finding food....And without great eyes,they will die trying to find anything to eat....So only the pigeons with the BEST eyes live,and live to breed,and that means they are breeding for eyesign....
With that said,if you breed for eyesign only,you will never win any races....
*Eyesign is only one of the TOOLS used to help select the best specimens to breed from....*.Alamo


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

If anyone is interested , a friend of mine has told me he has the copy rights to 3 booklets written by Henry Sadewater. There are " everything you ever wanted to know about your racing pigeons and then some: , " the sadewater method natural set-ups and conditioning " and Standardizatiom of Values , numerical values of racimg pigeoms, Eye sign & body conformation. These books are loaded with information and will be for sale all 3 for $60.00 or $ 25 each + shipping.


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## dannyboy (Dec 25, 2014)

ERIC K said:


> does anyone here use eye sign to pick breeders or racers. I picked up an old book on the subject and want to ask around to get some tips when looking at the eye. a friend of mine said he looks at the eyes and if the sign is at or near 2 o'clock in the eye it would be a good breeder. If the sing is at 7 o' clock it would be a racer.


 LOL i remeber our old man had that chart donkeys years ago,he thought he was the kiddy on eyesign,many sunday morning he used to be asked to go around a few local fanciers lofts and "grade"their birds by eyesign!!!!i often wonder wetherthey took his thoughts serious or just yaking the piss...but he enjoyed it and thats what counts


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Ok heres my two cents but ur not gonna like ittttttt lol.
Eye sign "phewy"

I think it is a bunch of stuff as Alamo said AND a few more, such as maturity, wisdom, heart and probably just plain luck. I think most breeders 'cull' WAY too many and too early before they mature and prove themselves. They cull annually and a bird doesnt even begin to tap into its confidence. I could go on and on. 

Saw a documentary recently where a guy bought a "bloodlline' bird. Paid 2 grand for it, trained it, along with a team of 15, one small 2 cent hen was mostly last all the time and he considered culling her feeling she was slowing down the flock, like wth. He didnt. Went on with the season, LOST the money male half way thru and his winningest bird, WAS the two cent HEN. LMAO. She matured, she gained confidence, she did her own thing. She flew and flew well and SHE kicked ass. Just sayin.....whatever lol, Im SURE that happenes a lot. Give the birds a chance no matter eye, size, weight, wing what ever, the one that has heart, guts , experience and time on the wing, will be the winner. 

Heres another thing I have NEVER tried by by theory I bet would work better than any widowhood system or bubs on nest.
For any and all reason any bird will FLY home for them right, some and a lot of races are lost on the clock for the possible slow trapping in right. Someone raise a bub by hand and have that bird imprint on YOU and then toss it. When it comes home, will trap in so fast to get to YOU and not the rest or waiting and hesitating while the 'trainer' shakes the can. My tame hens literally throw themselves at closed doors to get to me, they just keep banging and banging till I open them.

Would love someone to test that for me. I could never tho, I love my birds as pets too much to risk one being picked off by a hawk. Could tell you a story of how that same theory worked years ago for attack guard dogs. The old school way or my way and it was proven, dude bought another dog, trained it my way and had an amazing hunter and opened his eyes to the new way of training and better results. Ok, Ill stop blabbing now.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

I know its a topic many will laugh at , and I've also heard the very best eye sign is the one you see just before a bird drops into the trap on race day, you know, the one eye that winks at you when a bird lifts his tail. Anyway I find it interesting that someone took the time to photograph 50 British long distance champion pigeons in the 1960's and every one had eye sign that would fit into maybe 10 similar styles and shapes involved with the eye sign charts. Sure you could loose any bird that has good sign but you will not fine many champions that don't have good eye sign.

Something else to think about with the eye, is that its a window into the birds health and this is a fact that can't be disputed . Next time you talk to someone at work that is a hard drinker or in poor health take a good look at their eye and you'll see just what I mean.


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

I do not race but I like reading about pigeons including racing pigeons and I tend to believe that eye sign might be one misunderstood topic and alone does not substantiate the quality of a bird (this is only from reading articles and blogs/posts).

Another possible reason is that there might have been a set of good performers and good breeders and some wanted to find out common characteristics to identify them. Lack of a scientific approach and confined to the pigeons of his immediate surroundings or may be a set of near by lofts would have contributed to the various so called theories, which worked with a limited experimental/observation lot and were assumed to be correct. Many hobbyists at many places around the globe would have tried and many theories thus popped up.

Also consider the fact that in-breeding and line breeding from performers and breeders would have contributed in maintaining a particular physical characteristic not just to the eyes but the beaks, nails, etc., which effected the theories/decisions.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Honestly I dont know anything about eye sign, but I figure that if the bird is well bred, well trained, well fed, well housed that any bird on any given day can win. Animals are individuals and if all in good health and well rested, then hey, its anyones game. Does anyone consider the pecking order in a loft? I know that if a bird is being kept from feed dish, or stressed by a dominant male, they may look ok but not be in tip top shape or in any hurry to get back to loft to be bullied, AND I wonder if they do lets say fly in at the same time in a group, will that first bird wait and defer to dominant cock to trap in after it and again potentially lose its winning status. Im sure there are many subtle things racers have yet to learn and or may never understand in animal behaviour. Only the critters know lol.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

In advertisements with pigeons for sale,most put a picture of the eye....To tell you the truth,there have been many with what I call average to good eyes....Not all these champions have great eyes...So with that said,it takes a pigeon with many good qualities to be a champion....Alamo


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## pigeonjim (May 12, 2012)

I have played with the eye sign charts and bought a special little magnifier to look close and deep into there eyes for there secrets to be told. I found my time was better spent gazing at the trapp as they return to the loft!! lol


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

pigeonjim said:


> I have played with the eye sign charts and bought a special little magnifier to look close and deep into there eyes for there secrets to be told. I found my time was better spent gazing at the trapp as they return to the loft!! lol


BHAHAHAHAHHAHAH I love it! hehehehe


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