# Cynthia: temporary absence



## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Dear All,

Just saw Brad's post, coincidentally with Cynthia asking me to post on her behalf. She is currently in the hospital with a Pneumonitis. 

Cynthia has not been feeling so good for a few weeks now. Two weeks back she was so unwell with breathlessness, severe headaches and cough, that I had to get her to the out-of-hours doctor, who prescribed anti-biotics for an infection. Well, she just seemed to get worse through the week, and finally we called her own doctor out on the Friday. He immediately got her booked into the emergency unit at the hospital with this pneumonia-like condition.

Now, a week on, she is looking and feeling somewhat better, and has had various tests, but we do not yet know when she will be discharged.

All the signs point to a lung infection caused by an allergenic substance, strongly suspected (as one might expect) to be 'animal protein' in the form of particles from feathers and the dust given off by pigeons - i.e., pigeon fanciers' lung. 

We think that it is not so much our motley crew (or Motley Crue?) of pigeons in the aviary, as the never-ending procession of sick or injured birds which Cynthia has housed for varying periods in the bedrooms in 'hospital cages'. Plus, of course, the few who had spent several weeks inside claiming rooms as their very own 'flight pens' during the mandatory isolation period before entry to an aviary.

The effect would be like sleeping in a loft! 

Anyway, Cynthia is only too aware now (she said) of the potential danger of pigeon-keeping without safety precautions.

We have found a site now, by the British Pigeons Fanciers Medical Research group http://www.pigeon-lung.co.uk/ on the subject. Within, there are face masks to the standard needed to filter out the pigeon dust particles (which are less than 5 microns in size) http://www.pigeon-lung.co.uk/masks.html

We have no intention of getting rid of our birds, most of whom are unreleasables, so we will be speaking with the consultants about the use of such masks and full body suits when entering the pigeons' home.

Of course, it does mean that Cynthia will not be able to take in new sick/injured birds for treatment, as the risk of having them inside (the only space available) is too great.

Apologies for my sparse posting... I've been pretty much distracted for a while.

John


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi John,

Thank you so much for letting us know about Cynthia's condition. I know you have been very busy and appreciate the response.

My condition also became acute having pigeons in the house 24/7. It was the time I was hand raising Skye and Sonic from 4 days of age to about three weeks, so I know how bad it can get.

Please give my regards to Cynthia, and I am keeping her in my thoughts and prayers.

I'm sending my best wishes for a speedy recovery, and hope that Cynthia will be as good as new and posting again.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

John, thank you so much for letting us know about Cynthia and let her know we will be remembering her in our prayers daily. I imagine she is also very upset about not being able to take in any more sick/injured pigeons but at least you will still have your flock to care for. I can tell you that last spring when we had so many that I had some problems with congestion until we got them out of the house. It seems to happen when we get in a large number more so than the odd one or two.

I have missed you both.


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

John thanks for the update on Cynthia. I was thinking about her as well in the last few days.

Please let Cynthia know we are all wishing her a speedy and full recovery.

Ron


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Oh, I am so sorry to hear the news.
I pray for her speedy recovery. 
Yes, there are solutions to that and the special masks see to work well, I heard.
Give Cynthia a big hug from us and tell her we miss her.

Reti


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

I know the hospital is not a place a person wants to go or stay. I hope she recoverys well. And it will be some rethinking on the birds. I had to give my birds up last year. Its not a easy desision. A person would need the better dust masks to breath good air working with the birds. nOW an open loft that gets good air exchange will help alot. Any way tell her I am thinking of her and wish her the best.


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

John, thank you for letting us know what is going on.

Please give our best wishes to Cynthia for a complete recovery.

Cynthia, I will be sending you my best wishes to be well and come home soon!

Linda


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Thank you, John! I was so hoping I would not be hearing what you posted!!

My thoughts for a speedy recovery and COMFORTING AND HEALING HUGS TO HER as well!

I am really sorry to hear the news. 

Of course, all of us are looking forward to the day she will be back posting.

I know you will let her know how much we are all thinking about her!

I am sure the birds miss her too!


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

John,

Thank you for letting us know about Cynthia's illness. We have missed her on line. Please let her know that her fans here on P.T. are rooting for her full recovery, and please keep us posted. Cynthia will be in our prayers.

Feather


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

I’m very sorry to hear about Cynthia’s health issues, John but thankful that it is manageable w/some logistical modifications. Who knows, if there is enough ‘outdoors’ space available, perhaps a separate hospital shelter from the house and aviary, but I know that this is not the highest of priorities, Cynthia’s health and well being will/should always come first. There’s always the ‘long distance’ rescues in need here that she is so good at, she will be in my thoughts and prayers for a speedy and complete recovery from her current health crisis.

fp


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

When Brad posted his inquiry, the thought of illness crossed my mind, however I dismissed it thinking she is just very busy with winter rescues. 

I now read that she is in the hospital. Poor Miss Cynthia. My heart goes out to her for a speedy recovery. She is a dedicated person indeed. 

John, thank you so much for letting us know. She will also be on my prayer wish list. Tell her we wish her well and miss her.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi John, 

Thank you for letting us know what is going on and this is just terrible I really hope that Cynthia will be much better soon and discharged from the hospital before too long. Pneumonia is a very serious problem and should never be taken lightly. Please let her know we are all thinking about her and hope she will be back home before Christmas.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

John, thank you for the info. Please let Cynthia know that we are all pulling for a quick and complete recovery for her. Big hugs to both of you!

Terry


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

I would just like to add a suggestion (that I hope might be helpful) to the members who keep pigeons indoors. I use an air purification system in my pigeon room and it filters out quite a bit of the feather dust they give off and also helps circulate the air. There are many good ones on the market and they don't have to cost an arm and a leg either. I truly believe that these units are extremely beneficial. Wearing a mask while around the birds is a very good idea too, especially if you are sensitive to the dust or have had problems in the past

I wear a mask myself while cleaning up after my pigeons and even though I only have 3 birds. Over a year ago now I also got sick (not seriously like Cynthia) from feather dust and dried poop particles. I use a shop vacuum when I clean the room and one day while emptying it out outside and when I wasn't wearing a mask, the dust from the container rose up and I breathed it in. I became ill from this and wound up having to go to the doctor for an antibiotic to get rid of the infection this ended up causing.


Hi Nona, just saw your post recommending the same thing and I agree whole heartedly with you!


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Just a suggestion regarding vacuum cleaners. 

I've used a Rainbow for years. I remember them from when I was a kid. Water is placed in a bottom container and when one vacuums, that's where all the junk goes. You would NOT believe how much dirt/dust/whatever a single vacuuming of 600 square feet can pick up.

The dirty water is flushed down the toilet, the container rinsed and put away until the next time.

While these vacuums can be costly, they are well worth the money, imo...


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

PS John if you get an air filter DO NOT get one with an ionizer.....they make dust cling to furniture and walls.[/QUOTE]

They do? That is exactly what I have. 
What is the purpose of the ionizer anyways (other then sticking the dust to the furniture and walls)?
Do you know which air filter is good, not noisy and doesn't cost a small fortune?

Reti


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Reti and All,

Here is the one I use, it also has an ionizer but it can be turned on or off. 

http://www.greenwayhp.com/air.html


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thank you Brad nd Nona.
My ionic breezes don't really do much lately and with all the birds and cats and other critters I need something urgent. Will look into it soon.
Thanks

Reti


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Oh, John, I hate to hear that! Please tell Cynthia to get well!

I've recently had troubles with hypersensitive pneumonitis but not that bad. I've simply had acute attacks. The first time was kinda' spooky--I woke up in the middle of the night after cleaning the loft and couldn't take a deep breath without coughing. It kinda' felt like not being able to get enough air. After about a half-hour, I decided to take two Sudafeds and one Benadryl because I was pretty sure it was allergenic in nature. My breathing went back to normal in about half an hour. Anymore, I always wear a HEPA (High Efficiency Particle Air) filter and that helps a lot.

Pidgey


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

John, thanks for letting us know about Cynthia's condition. Wishing her a speedy recovery!

A HEPA filter can make a huge difference indoors. I have one running in the room housing the little feral. I also wear a dust mask when working with the birds. When I'm done, I wipe my face to remove any clinging dust and blow my nose. Every little bit helps!


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## Pete Jasinski (Jan 2, 2005)

I'm sorry to hear of Cynthia's illness, I wish her a speedy recovery and I too pray she returns home in time to spend Christmas at home.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Nona,

Pneumonitis isn't the same thing as pneumonia. "Pigeon Lung" or "Pigeon Fancier's Lung" or "Bird Fancier's Lung" or "Hypersensitive Pneumonitis" or "Extrinsic Allergic Alveolitis" is an inflammatory response in the lung tissue to a foreign protein. Bird dander can be extremely fine and that is part of the problem. Long term exposure can cause changes in the lung tissue to the point of scarring. There are a couple of forms--chronic and acute. An acute attack causes shortness of breath and the need to cough explosively (my experience). The chronic form reduces the ability of the lungs to exchange oxygen with the CO2 and therefore essentially limits one's activities. 

Immediate treatment of a severe acute attack is usually a corticosteroid like prednisone. This is due to the ability of the drug to reduce the inflammatory response quickly. It also suppresses the immune system so it's not a treatment that you can sustain for any significant length of time. Therefore, management is accomplished by staying away from the allergen.

Or something like that.

Pidgey


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

John, thank you so much for letting us know about Cynthia. I will keep her in my prayers, as I know her condition can be quite serious. I do hope you can work it out so that you don't have to give up all your pigeons, but it does sound like the ones indoors will have to go. 

After months of scaping the loft every day I noticed I was coughing each morning like a smoker, which I'm not. I now use a dust mask when I clean and that seems to have solved the problem. And now we only keep pigeons indoors when we absolutely have to. But that would be hard to stick to if you're doing rehab.


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

I plan on getting some masks myself. It wouldn't hurt. I have found myself coughing sometimes too after clean up a couple of times a week. Of course, I have been alergic to anything that is green and brown, which for me is a curse, as much as I love the outdoors and nature. It couldn't hurt though.


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## phyll (Mar 15, 2004)

Everyone ~ Because Cynthia hadn't posted for a while, I was very worried about her. I made contact a few days ago. That's when I learned she had been hospitalized. I expressed my opinion, which was that the forum be informed, so all of us could pray for her. It wasn't up to me to say anything, so I didn't. 
John ~ Thank you for posting & for updating Cynthia's condition.
Now, with so many of us praying, Cynthia will receive lots & lots of prayers. 
Bob & I have been praying for her every day. Well, we pray for both of you every day, but now we are saying additional prayers for her recovery.

May God surround Cynthia with His healing love. May He give you strength, John, & to all her loved ones. 

Phyll


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Thanks, everyone, for your good wishes and advice, and shared experiences.

Yes, the coughing and stuff was one of the early signs... also headaches from the oxygen supply being impaired. Unfortunate that the doctor initially put down the breathlessness, several weeks ago, to 'hyperventilation'!

The aviary for the residents is a long, open flight pen with a shelter at one end (no doors) and a well ventilated new shed at the other, so hopefully less of a problem than she could find with a closed loft.

There is only one bird inside now - not in a bedroom - and that's a wood pigeon with pigeon pox. He will have to move, but if necessary I can take him to my apartment.

Thanks for the info about air purifiers and vacuum filters, too. We don't intend keeping birds inside any more, but I can't be sure that I've eliminated every trace of dust yet and it's possible that particles could be brought in from outside near the birds.

I'll print off all your posts for Cynthia 

John


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## LondonPigeon (May 10, 2005)

sorry to hear about Cynthia


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## pigeonpoo (Sep 16, 2005)

Poor Cynthia. Do pass on my best wishes for her speedy recovery.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

John_D said:


> I'll print off all your posts for Cynthia
> 
> John


That sounds like a wonderful idea John.  

Cynthia, You take care, drink plenty of liquids, eat all your fruits & vegetables,  don't sneak out of bed  & above all, stay focused on that road to recovery.  

Cindy


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

When I start seeing (by way of a shaft of sunlight) too much dust floating in the air in my house, I turn the HVAC (Heating, Ventilation & Air Conditioning) fan to "ON" instead of "AUTO" and run it long enough to get the air looking clearer. 

I've been toying with the idea of making a pre-filter that would essentially be a cloth grid sprayed with one of those tacky sprays in order to catch more fine dust. A HEPA filter installed in your standard filter housing for your HVAC system would probably cause too much pressure drop across the system. That means that it might reduce the system's airflow to where the actual HVAC might be impaired. That's why I'm thinking about making the sticky grid as an addition to the filter that I've already got. The fan for the house system is already big enough to filter a lot of air quickly and economically, it just wasn't designed to filter out the fine particles that we're interested in getting.

Another thing that I've been thinking about is more of a homeopathic or holistic approach--I'm thinking that it might be possible to decrease the body's sensitivity to pigeon protein by way of occasionally eating pigeon eggs (hard boiled). It works with poison ivy and it has worked for other things when people have food allergies of a certain type. The principle is that the body learns to not go crazy with exposure to the allergen.

Pidgey


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## kittypaws (Sep 18, 2005)

phyll said:


> Everyone ~ Because Cynthia hadn't posted for a while, I was very worried about her. I made contact a few days ago. That's when I learned she had been hospitalized. I expressed my opinion, which was that the forum be informed, so all of us could pray for her. It wasn't up to me to say anything, so I didn't.
> 
> Phyll


I also knew Cynthia was not well and was in hospital as I had pm'd her just before she was admitted and she said she wasn't well but that John was coming up to help her. I then corresponded with John who advised Cynthia had gone into hospital and that he was on pigeon, dog and cat duty at Cynthia's plus the early morning city feral feeds and "the wild rabbit" feed.  Like Phyll, I felt that John should start a post about Cynthia if he felt it was the right thing to do as he is her friend and would have the correct facts about Cynthia's condition.

John, I know that we would also like to express our gratitude to you for holding the fort whilst Cynthia gets better, despite living some 200 miles (I think) away from your own home, and having to also continue your work.

I am sure that this has eased Cynthia's mind and speeded her recovery too knowing that her charges are in very capable hands - plus you gave the house a good dusting!!! - what a hero. 

Cynthia, please do get better soon. I am so glad that I made your acquaintance personally, seen the wonderful outside aviary you have and sorry to have "dumped" Saxie the dove off at yours......though I am sure she is very happy she met you as you made her better.

Take care

Tania xxxx


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Pidgey, I think you are on the right track with your thinking on spraying a filter with something to grab and entrap any very fine particulates. If I were going to do it though, I would not use a tacky spray. I think a better idea, which can be borrowed from automotive engineering, would be a system like what a high performance auto air filter like K&N uses. Which is essentially a number of layers of cotton gauze sandwiched between mesh. This is then sprayed with a special oil, this oil is the key, to grab and entrap dust.

Here is a link to the K&N Oil Recharge Kit http://www.knfilters.com/clningacc.htm and I see no reason why if a regular furnace filter would be spayed with this oil that it would not aid in boosting its performance considerably.

Ron


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Anything you spray on is going to shed molecules and I'm not sure that I'd want a heavy hydrocarbon floating around. Not for a flammability issue, but for the smell and possible carcinogenic properties. I've no idea if that's the case but it'd be my first area of research before I used that stuff. 

Decades ago, I worked in a maintenance department and we'd mix up soapy water (some kind of dish soap) and treat the filters on a regular basis. That left them sticky and did a pretty good job. Even those real coarse filters that only caught long strands of hair treated thusly would hold quite a bit of dust. We'd pull them out, spray them with a hose until they flowed clean water, let 'em dry, treat 'em again and then reinstall them. My overall impression was that we were really only trying to protect the air conditioning coils from dust buildup instead of doing it for people's health and I think that's always been the design basis of those systems.

Pidgey


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Pidgey, you may have a point on the hydrocarbons issue. I wonder if a oil cooking spray, such as PAM, would do the trick. The K&N filters are actually meant to be washed and then recharged with oil for multiple uses, kind of like the filters you speak of.

Ron


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

John_D said:


> I'll print off all your posts for Cynthia
> 
> John


John, that is a great idea. Seeing the well wishes should brighten up her day very much. Take care of her for us.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

kittypaws said:


> I also knew Cynthia was not well and was in hospital as I had pm'd her just before she was admitted and she said she wasn't well but that John was coming up to help her. I then corresponded with John who advised Cynthia had gone into hospital and that he was on pigeon, dog and cat duty at Cynthia's plus the early morning city feral feeds and "the wild rabbit" feed.  Like Phyll, I felt that John should start a post about Cynthia if he felt it was the right thing to do as he is her friend and would have the correct facts about Cynthia's condition.
> 
> John, I know that we would also like to express our gratitude to you for holding the fort whilst Cynthia gets better, despite living some 200 miles (I think) away from your own home, and having to also continue your work.
> 
> ...


John, bless you for taking on this role for Cynthia, and her charges, in addition to ensuring that her home is ready for her (as in dust free as humanly possible) when she returns. From the description above, you are
one busy person right now, and you need to be in everyone's thoughts and 
prayers as well that you're health remains robust while in 'over-drive' like this.

For Pidgey and Jazaroo, what came to mind regarding something that would be 'sticky' and grab the airborne particulates was something akin to what is used in the finishing trades known as a 'Tack Cloth'. The site below
doesn't sell tack cloths, but has a couple of spray on products that are used w/furnace and HVAC filters:

http://www.bostoncleaningequ.com/betco3.htm

There's a water based product:

NOIL, TM 

And oil based:

DM120 


fp


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## Rooster2312 (Mar 8, 2006)

John, So sorry to hear that Cynthia is ill. 

Sending healing prayers and hugs for a speedy recovery.

I should really look into the mask/air filtration ideas too as I have a cough in the mornings that has been present for 3 years now (I don't smoke). I live in a bedsit with 4 birds and other small animals. The dust in here is bad and all the birds are moulting just now...feathers and dust everywhere...especially Jax's. Even she is out of sorts just now with sneezing and generally quite sleepy.

Lindi


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Had to go to Lowe's for something and decided to ask them if they had the Noil. They didn't have that one but they did have something like it by the filters just for that same purpose. It's this stuff:

http://www.webproducts.com/products/accessories/charger.jsp

Probably the same thing. I got some but I haven't sprayed the filter down yet. It's a chore getting to it.

Pidgey


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Fp and Pidgey, the Noil and Web Filter Charger look like very good solutions.

Pidgey, when you do start using it maybe you could give us some feedback on your perceptions of its effectiveness.

Ron


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## littlestar (May 11, 2005)

Please tell Cynthia that I'm very sorry to hear she is really sick. I'll keep her in my prayers that she has a speedy recovery and that she is missed. It's funny because I had allergies to feathers and went for shots for over 5 years, I know it's not the samething, but I would of never been able to have my birds .


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## Pisciottano (Aug 20, 2005)

I've just read about Cynthia not being well but perhaps she is already on her way to a prompt and full recovery. I surely wish it with all my heart. You may know perhaps that Cynthia has lived some years here in Montevideo when she was very young which makes me feel closer to her. I'm hoping we will meet here one day if she comes to visit friends and family. Please tell her she is very much on my thoughts and will be happy to hear she is back home well and happy. Gladys


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

littlestar said:


> Please tell Cynthia that I'm very sorry to hear she is really sick. I'll keep her in my prayers that she has a speedy recovery and that she is missed. It's funny because I had allergies to feathers and went for shots for over 5 years, I know it's not the samething, but I would of never been able to have my birds .


What kind of allergy to feathers (how did it present) and what kind of shots? Right now we're looking for any possibility to help Cynthia out when she gets out of the hospital but it'll be good for all of us rehabbers, too, since a lot of us are having the first stages of the same thing.

Pidgey


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Pidgey/Ron - would there be any worries about mold if the filters are sprayed - with anything?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I sort of doubt it. I'd expect that since they'd made the stuff for this purpose, it wouldn't be a food source for some organism. And, since it's whole purpose is being sticky, things would have a hard time escaping it as well.

Pidgey


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Maggie, I wouldn't think any more than normal. I had a look at both products again and the Noil states that one of its uses is to treat furnace filters. The Web product Pidgey bought was specifically designed for use on furnace filters to increase their performance.

My supposition is that both companies would have done both field testing and in house testing to see if the products did result in an increase in molds and bacteria over norms. Most companies now days do fairly rigorous testing to avoid the chances of lawsuits, especially class action suits. So unless there is a problem with a furnace itself, say a problem with the humidifier leaking on to the filter itself, setting up a breeding ground for mold and bacteria, I think they would be safe products to use.

Ron


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Thanks gentlemen


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## pigifan (Nov 2, 2005)

I wish Cynthia has a quick recovery and feels better soon.

It must be devastating for her to know that she won't be able to continue taking new pigeons in need of help.

As Cynthia posts very often I wondered about her absence but I thought she is very busy or had taken a holiday.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

( Late to-the-thread...)

Get well soon Cynthia..!

So sorry hear of these discomforts...


Best wishes!


PS - Pidgey, you mean we can eat Hard Boiled 'Poison Ivy' Eggs to build up a resistance to Poison Ivy?

Hmmmmm...!



Phil
Las Vegas


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## stephie (May 17, 2006)

pdpbison said:


> ( Late to-the-thread...)


(Me too...)

I'm so sorry to hear Cynthia's unwell...
Also sending along my best wishes for a speedy recovery (and prompt return to Pigeon Talk!)

We miss you Cynthia!


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## arnieismybaby (Jul 24, 2006)

Sorry to read that Cynthia is very sick.  

Please convey my best wishes to her and that I wish her a full and speedy recovery.

Best regards,
Michelle


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