# found feral pigeon: in good condition but weak, can't fly.



## marjorie (Feb 11, 2009)

Location: TUCSON AZ

Hello all. I need the benefit of those with more experience than me. I know guinea pigs like nobody- If you have a sick guinea pig, chances are I have ideas to help you. But with birds I am clueless. Here is the situation.

Two evenings ago, just after dark fall I saw a pigeon on the pavement by a church with its face in the corner trying to hide. I tied up my two dogs & investigated because he was supposed to be asleep up in a tree-that much I knew. He appeared weak. He let me pick him up. He could flap both wings but not fly. His feet were very cold. There were no visible injuries. We live in Southwestern US (Tucson AZ) and it gets between 40 and 50 at night right now. I said a prayer to be shown what to do to help him. I asked him out loud "Do you want me to try and help you?". He answered me...I'm not making this up, he looked at me and went "honk honk honk". So I wrapped him in cloth to warm in and carried him home in the crook of my arm.

He did fine last night on some soft timothy hay in a box in my dark quiet bathroom with a blanket for warmth. Just the warmth from the walk home seemed to give him some strength.

I spent today extensively examining him with as little handling as possible and there are zero physical signs:

-no broken feathers or signs of possible flight impact.
-no broken bones in wings-full wing extension bilaterally w/ flapping just weak in strength and can't get off ground.
-no predator trauma bites/scratches.
-no broken legs
-no string around foot/foot ulcers or visible infections anywhere
-no eye, nares or beak discharge/crusting
-no feces caked at his bottom
-no blood in his excrement (excrement is white with some watery green in it, has moved bowels about 3-4 times in 24 hours that I have noticed)
-have witnessed him eating whole oats and popcorn I put out for him
-have not witnessed him drink but could see moist mucus membranes inside open beak so I assume he drank water I put out.
-no band around leg or evidence of being a pet that I can see.

When I speak to him he usually honks back most times. He is very sweet. I found him by a park right by a church in the central part of our city so it makes sense he is very used to people and may survive from even hand feeding in the church or park.

When I pick him up he does not fight me at all and I do so securing his wings to his body. When I have done this with other birds in the past they attempt to flap the wings with GREAT STRENGTH. He lacks that strength. He does try to flap the wings but his strength is minimal. When I put him down after transport he will lay on his side for a minute as if resting and gaining strength and then be fine. His feet are often cold the few times I have handled him. I have yet to take a stethoscope to him because I'm trying to minimize handling and I don't want it to frighten him.

I am an MD but know very little about birds. He is acting as though he has generalized weakness. Could he have been poisoned? Could he have some natural virus pigeons get this time of year? (Many years ago in February I took in one who couldn't fly and looked after her for a month until one day she was strong enough and just flew away). Could he be old and have a bad heart/heart failure? Perhaps the most important question is could he have some kind of infection that requires antibiotic or other medication therapy that only a wildlife rescue center can diagnose and provide? We do have one here but in my opinion they don't always make the most trustworthy choices. I do play on calling them anonymously tomorrow for more information.

What I am doing for the pigeon currently, after first night:

When daylight came today, I set up a nice large place for him outside with a 4 foot by 3 foot by foot training crate my husky hated. I had it in the shade on my porch covered with a blanket, with natural ground stuff in there for him and a stick to perch on 2 inches from the bottom (he did manage to hop that high later in the day). Because his feet stay cold much of the time, I worry he is too hypotensive to maintain his body temperature overnight out there so I took him back in and put him on a blaket in the box with the hay again in the dark bathroom at dusk. He was quite happy to go in there. He doesn't even attempt to escape when when I go to pick him up or open the door to the crate he is in outside. I will wake up and dawn and place him back in his outdoor enclosure...I could tell he was very happy to be placed outside today.

Please help me understand what illnesses are common to feral pigeons in the southwest United States at this time of year that could cause generalized weakness. Do you feel chances are good that with continued supportive care he could regain his strength and ability to fly (in which case I would place him in a paper bag and return him to the spot I found him- he may have a family there, I know they are monogamous). 

If I turn him over to the wild life center I pretty much lose all control over what happens to him, but they may have better ability to diagnose him which is the only reason I am considering it. I wish to make the best choice to help this being get better. If looking after him for a couple of weeks/months is the best thing, I can do that. I just need more information. Please alert me if I am doing anything grossly detrimental to his survival or leaving anything out. I understand he needs actual pigeon feed that I will go buy tomorrow. thank you for your help.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Marjorie,

Thank you for helping this pijie and for your very informative post about her
condition and what you are doing for her+pictures and location---wow.

This looks to be an adult hen and a pretty pij as well. They can have coccidiosis, canker or a worm overload commonly. I am supposing since you 
are a doctor that you can get medications for the bird.

Trimethoprim Sulpha would take care of coccidiosis+common digestive tract bacterial infections. Dose for pigeons is 120mg's per kg, QID.
Or, you may like this dosing better: 60mg's per kg q12h x 7d

Metronidazole would take care of canker. You can sometimes, in a classic presentation of the illness, see evidence of canker by opening the beak and 
looking inside, though there are many hiding places for the disease and it's not a given that the bird doesn't have a overburden of Trichomonads because they aren't visible. Dose for Pigeons is 50mg's per kg BID x 5-7d.

I usually treat for 'known devils' when I have the bird in hand, then spend a few days with probiotics to rebuild the intestinal flora.

Here are links for crop medicating:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f6/how-to-crop-medicate-15683.html

and formularies:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f110/...ther-online-formularies-76464.html#post810069

and the Resource Section in general may be helpful:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f95/

I would start here, you are getting pigeon mix tomorrow, the bird will be eating better and get treatment for common conditions. Then evaluate
the recuperative process in 7-10 days. Please keep the board updated on 
your new patient.

Also, if you need help w/meds you may private message me and I can send some off to you.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Can you post a photo of her droppings?

From your description (white droppings with little green) it seems food doesn't enter her body. It may have crop candida or canker.

Hav you checked the mouth for white plaques or bad smell? Have you checked her breast bone if is sharp (emaciation)? Have you checked if the food is not vomited somewhere in the cage?





I have a similar pigeon that someone caught because didn't fly. He was eating but extremely emaciated. It was infested with candida and the bottom of the crop was compacted with some big corn seeds which he vomited in several stages, including today. It may also have some canker nodule blocking the proventriculus so today I started canker medication too.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

You have been very thorough. As the others have said, great. I just want to note that the cage he is in the bar spacing is too wide and he is at risk for predators especially during the night, if you can bring him inside in that cage and only place him by a window for a bit during the day it is better for him to not be so stimulated by outside so he can rest and recover. If u want him outside, it should only by while you are home to supervise in that set up, thats the only detrimental thing I see so far. It is a good sign that he is up on his feet eating on his own. I would also go to pet store and buy a wild bird mix so he has more grains and better quality of food and choice, no pigeon mix, even a dove mix will be good, small millets like canary grass seed and budgie mix will do as well together along with sunflower seeds or peanuts  Let us know how he does and posting pics of his poop would help along with a short video for us to see his demeanour if you can. Thanks


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## marjorie (Feb 11, 2009)

Thank you everyone so much for sharing your knowledge & experience. I have not yet taken any different actions. I have a lot of reading to do and have to call the wild life center today. I wanted to post pictures of her droppings found in box this morning-lots of them, as someone asked. Please comment if their appearance seems to help clarify if this is coccidiosis- if it strongly suggests anything abnormal or a normal appearance (sorry in advance for the gross factor):


















The few seeds in the pictures are not from her droppings- she knocked them out of her dish. She once again ate a lot once I put her outside in her cage this morning. I sat and observed- no vomiting for the 20 minutes afterwards directly observed. I have not found vomited corn/oats anywhere.

To answer some other questions:

I can palpate her breast bone- it is protruding and easy enough to find suggesting not a lot of muscle tissue over it but I wouldn't describe it as "sharp" or "sticking out". I am not an experienced bird person so I have no other bird exams to compare it to unfortunately.

I work from home now so I can't go get drugs from a pharm rep cabinet or write a script. I do have flagyl on hand for a senior guinea pig who needs it chronically- enough to share with her in liquid form at the right concentration. The bactrim I would have to get. I looked at crop anatomy. I do not doubt my ability to get the medication into her esophagus but I am concerned about the stress that will inflict upon her - its a benefit versus drawback decision and there is also the cost of imbalance antibiotics cause so I am still learning before any action is taken. What is used as pro-biotic for birds on antibiotics? anything effective?

The slats in the cage crate are small (1" to 1.5"); she is a sitting duck for a predator right now which is one of the reasons I knew I had to take her in the first place. I bring her inside at dusk to sleep in a box on some hay in a quiet room. She if fine with that and it keeps her safe from predators. During the day while she is out there the husky (who leaves her alone) is usually out there too and will make a fuss if a cat comes and tries tinkering with the door. I work from home. When I leave I will bring her inside.

The wild life center may be better equipped to properly help than me-its hard to know (they are also subject to weird federal regulations that defy logic at times and could euthanize in some cases- I am still weighing options and gathering info in short.) I am observing for changes in behavior, reading about the common infections you all have mentioned and considering possibly starting the antibiotics you recommended versus giving her the to the wild life center if they would do the same thing but do it with more skill and less stress on her. I guess a third option if she improves is to do nothing but supportive care (keep her safe, give her water and good nutrition) and see if she heals herself. I did have one years ago that recovered on her own this way and flew away after a month of help.

I will try to get some video of her. She behaves quite well and normal from my inexperienced eye. Thank you again for all of your valuable help and for respecting all of life.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Is not coccidiosis, rather e.coli, plus some candida (the feces broken in small parts). Give some amoxicillin and Nystatin. You give antibiotics in the morning and Nystatin in evening or the other way around. If the droppings turn dark, stop the amoxicillin, even after a single day of treatment. E. coli is not something you can get rid of, it comes again and again. Nystatin you give until the feces consists of a single "sausage".



Dose: for a 250 gr pigeon, 40 mg amoxicillin and a 250.000 units (a half tablet) Nystatin / day.

Probiotics (from human or vet drugstore), B vitamins are also necessary.


The bird needs a little warmer environment than a human home, but not much warmer and must be protected from air drafts by being put in a cardboard box or something like this.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Hope your pigeon friend recovers. She is lovely. Have not had good experiences with wildlife sanctuaries as many do not value pigeons. Hope you find it in your heart to try to care for hier. A lot of your knowledge likely would be helpful in saving the bird. She may just be very hungry if his breastbone is prominent. Hope you observe and see how she does. Good luck. Pigeons are very tough and have an amazing ability to recover.


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## marjorie (Feb 11, 2009)

Thank you everyone for the comments. 

A quick update: those of you who have added here or by direct message that wildlife sanctuaries will be of little help are correct. The one in my city would only take a pigeon if injured or abandoned by a mother. But they did give me the number of a dedicated rehabber I spoke to on the phone. 

She says I am doing the right things. She feels observation for now is the correct action. She agrees with the above shared concerns that a possible diarrhea causing infection could be the culprit and possibly antibiotic therapy could help but further down the line. She said while the bird is weak it is best to observe, give it quality bird seed and rest to gain back some strength, then re-evaluate. 

She gave me good directions for how to do an exam of his/her inner mouth which I will do later today to give information about possible canker, fluid status of the mucous membranes (I'm worried about dehydration since I'm not seeing much water intake) and it will also give me an opportunity to check out the anatomy for future medication dosing or syringe administration of fluids if needed.

She is located a great distance from me and I am under a pile of work right now, but I'm hopeful I may be able to get out to her in a few days if we both think its needed at that time. She has offered to teach me how to syringe feed the bird fluids (which cannot hurt except for the stress and can help a whole lot-dehydration is the culprit behind why we feel bad with many illnesses including diarrhea if that's what's really happening with this bird).

An ideal outcome here would be that he had some intestinal bug or other self limiting illness that I could cure and get him flying again, return him to the site at which I found him.

But he may not be sick at all-she brought up that from my description he is highly tame and could have been raised as a pet by someone, then released. She's experienced and says that people do all kinds of irresponsible things. If this is the case, and he is ill equipped to survive in the wild (remains flightless and tame) then she can take him and place him in a home after all hope is exhausted. But that would be a sadder outcome.

I will do my best to help him. I have some limitations but I am making his well being a priority along with my other precious animals. I will update his progress and come back with any questions.

PS- How often should a bird drink? I'm worried he is not drinking? it hard for me to know if he is or not but his water dish doesn't go down. I put drops on the tip of his beak this morning and he didn't appreciate that. He eats daily.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Marjorie,

If you scroll down inside the link below to pigeon, you will see a chart with the biological data for pigeons:

http://www.ivis.org/proceedings/navc/2006/SAE/554.pdf?LA=1

You know, since you have a local rehabber that is pigeon friendly and willing to show you how to crop feed and/or medicate, it would be great if you have time to meet with her, let her look at the bird and then give you instructions on the process. After handling the bird, your local rehabber may have more ideas on how to proceed and also help w/the meds tho my offer still stands. An aside, I frequently supplement a rescues' self_feeding with formula to help w/hydration and nutrition.

While TMP will treat for coccidiosis (a reluctance to fly is characteristic of an overload), it also treats for ecoli, both of which can cause diarrhea and very watery droppings. Salmonella can also present as an intestinal bacterial infection. _However, you are both correct that treating for dehydration is an important first step especially with sulpha meds._ 

In spite of being delightful members of the planet Earth and great pets, most all pigeons have had exposure to coccidiosis, trichomonas, worms and many are also salmonella carriers. As for checking for canker, you can only check for oral and sinus presentations of canker, but it is known to move into organs, to populate in the cloaca and travel to other areas in the body via the bloodstream. That is why many rehabbers will treat for conditions in the absence of labwork that are known to cause weakness and illness in pigeons while they have them.

As for wildlife rehabbers, it is essential to inquire into their policy regarding pigeons. Some are great, and some are very prejudiced. But they do all have their own unique non-profit charters that they operate inside of.

Thanks for your serious consideration of your rescue's needs, it's really speaks to your character.


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## marjorie (Feb 11, 2009)

Thank you for the helpful link. I'm sure it will prove handy if it does turn out this is an infectious disease issue. HOWEVER....

I wanted to give a quick update before going to bed.

Oral exam was extremely successful- and NORMAL. no white patches anywhere- very healthy moist pink mucosa. I understand that still does not rule some things out (besides dehydration- I know what dehydration looks like from mucous membranes and that is not what is going on here thank goodness so she is clearly drinking just out of my vision).

I think I may have discovered an injury- A TAIL INJURY.

She has finally become comfortable and strong enough from eating good food to try and climb up the chicken wire fencing covering one side of her cage. When she does that her tail does some strange movements (bobbing down and to the right). I have to observe normal pigeons tomorrow to be certain, but I think I'm onto something. Its the odd tail movement that throws her off balance when she just tries to climb let alone fly. So then I examined her and palpated what essentially would be her tail bone, where her tail feathers originate, and I got a pain response- she jumped each time I did it.

Do they get tail injuries from perhaps whacking their tail on something in midflight? She has the ability to hold her tail nice and straight in perfect midline while perching on a stick for hours so this is a good sign that she does not have a broken back or anything horrific (hopefully). 

I am such a novice I have no idea if this even happens with birds- I am just going on my observational skills and exam skills. It took me a few days to catch it but I think this is the real problem making her flightless.

The droppings were a bit loose for the first couple of days but the rehabber says this is common from stress of capture plus the crap food I was giving her (oats and popcorn). She said in a week it will become clearer if her bowel movements are diarrhea from a problem or not. This makes good sense to me. 

I am really hoping if its her tail that there is some hope of recovery. Giving up a life of freedom would be terrible for her. She probably was limited in the food she could get just walking around on her little feet if she hasn't been able to fly for awhile with a hurt tail. 

I'm thinking there is no splint or anything helpful the wildlife center could do for this. They would likely see her now technically since I have perhaps pinpointed an injury but I don't trust them not to euthanize her. 

I will call the rehabber tomorrow to let her know what I found and try to get a video of the odd tail movement if I can ever catch her trying to climb the chicken wire or trying to fly. A trip out to the rehabber at some point may be necessary for clearer diagnosis. I will do my best to get out there if its needed. Its a distance and will take some planning for me.

Good news is that she is stronger, eating a lot, well hydrated from her oral exam and she seems pretty content. She (or he) continues to talk to me a lot Putting her in the box filled with hay in my home every dusk to sleep seems fine with her as long as I put her back outside by 8 am when it has warmed up.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Lovely bird! Thank you for caring for her. Not sure what would cause pain around her tail. ? Perhaps she was a pet someone released as the wildlife person suggested. Keep us posted.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Marjorie, 

Thank you for your update and standing vigil with this pij. While I don't know what exactly happened to your rescue, I have had collision injuries and failed hawk attacks that have resulted in tail injuries such as you describe. R&R, and wait and see if the bird will heal on it's own which does happen.


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## marjorie (Feb 11, 2009)

Finger's crossed, will do. After a few days on quality bird seed the droppings are now consistently dark colored and well formed (not loose and green as they were early on). Her strength is considerably better than when I found her. I would guess she had nothing much to eat without being able to fly and eating well now is helping. I tried and failed to catch her weird tail movement on video today. If I get it I will post it. I'll share anything new as it comes up. Thank you so much for all of the support!


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

You have such a good heart for critters, thanks a lot for saving her, she looks pretty well now.big smile for you


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

marjorie said:


> Finger's crossed, will do. After a few days on quality bird seed the droppings are now consistently dark colored and well formed (not loose and green as they were early on). Her strength is considerably better than when I found her. I would guess she had nothing much to eat without being able to fly and eating well now is helping. I tried and failed to catch her weird tail movement on video today. If I get it I will post it. I'll share anything new as it comes up. Thank you so much for all of the support!


Thanks for caring about your local ferals and wildlife. I forgot to mention that your local rehabber might be able to give or get you some Metacam which helps reduce inflammation and the rehab time. 

Yes, 'reading the bird's beads' via droppings is difficult and needs to be part of the whole picture. Your bird appeared with healthy looking feathering, looked good overall. This could just be an incident bleep in its' M.R.

Great work!


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## marjorie (Feb 11, 2009)

I have some very hopeful news to share  Early this morning I walked the dogs to the park on a pigeon observation mission. When all else fails on physical exam, compare what you have to normal. I studied the normal pigeons and finally figured this out. The normal pigeons will fan out their tail feathers prior to taking flight. This keeps their tail parallel with the ground and plays a mechanical role in stabilizing their flight. This is what my pigeon is missing! It becomes very prominent when she attempts to fly, even tilting her off balance and sending her tail a bit to the side. I never was able to capture that on film, but on this video I do show how the right side of her tail feathers are not fanning out as they are on the left.

HERE IS THE HOPEFUL PART. The local rehabber says this is a highly common tail injury one would see when a bird flies into a window or similar mid-flight impact and they usually recover from it  I was SO HAPPY to hear that she has a chance of gaining her normal life back!

This video should only be about 4 min long. If its still showing 9 min long you can skip that last 5 min- they have been edited off and youtube is still processing the edit. I was hoping to get her trying to fly to her perch but it didn't happen.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Of4YQMn5xY


Thank you for the thoughts about metacam and all the kind advice/brainstorming/offers for medication if needed. I actually have some metacam on hand for the guinea pigs. As I'm sure you know, its much like human ibuprofen. Do NSAIDS actually speed recovery time in injuries by reducing inflammation (in humans)? That can be debated. In my opinion, drug companies would certainly like doctors and money paying drug store shoppers to think that, so they invest a lot in trying to demonstrate that. But I am not always convinced. NSAIDS have their valuable place as do antibiotics, but I lean towards the conservative side ESPECIALLY when dealing with wild life.

With the benefit of every drug also comes a risk. It may be a tiny percentage, but sometimes that risk means death. She is happy and well for the most part, not suffering. I am going to trust her body to do its thing and hope for now. If she does not heal in time, we will have to re-evaluate and a trip to the rehabber will be needed. But things are looking good right now! Claws crossed! I'll make sure she is getting excellent nutrition-will read up on all I can provide.

Thank you everyone for your help and encouragement. I will update when something changes


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Glad to hear things may be improving. Hope the bird recovers from whatever is going on with his tail.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Sounds good Marjorie. Many avian vets use metacam to help with pain management and mobility, but you are the one with bird in hand and you need to be comfortable about how you proceed with your rescue. Yes, the tail is helpful in navigating, landing, etc. I'm sure you've seen them with no tail feathers at all from time to time from escaping a predator attack. They can and do get by, but they have a built in 'quick release' on those tail feathers and 
most likely no compounding injury. I've only had one injury of this type which didn't heal, by and large most of this sort of impact injury, whether car, predator or window tend to heal well in time. Glad to hear that you are still enjoying your pigeon experience and are enthusiastic about returning the pigeon to good health.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Most definitely the Medicam will help with pain and inflammation. I would give it.


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## marjorie (Feb 11, 2009)

I have big news  About 3 days ago my pigeon began showing me she could fan her tail-at first only a little but then more and more. Her wing strength has also been increasing every time I take her in at night (she was being kept in that large crate but wouldn't try to fly in there-not enough room). Her wings were so strong when I took her in last night I realized it was time to see if she could make it on her own. This morning I let her fly off my hand into the yard. She can fly again!!! 

She settled down next to me, went through a long process of stretching her wings and fanning her tail out to its full span. She would not leave-she just sat next to me and looked at me. I prompted her a few times to get her to fly again and again- she got roof level and made nice turns no problem but returned to me. So I left her cage door open with the food in it in case she wanted to eat and in case she felt weak and chose to stay longer- I left it up to her now that she could fly. 

I went back inside. She stood right outside my door for about 30 minutes.  She seemed to be deciding if she was going to try to set up home here or set out and return to her old life (where I found her was a 1.5 mile walk from my home- someone here assured me she can fly back to that location with ease if that is her wish). After half an hour normalcy set in for her, she flew away and reclaimed her natural life!

I found her 10 days ago late at night so cold and weak I'm not sure she would have lived. I think she was having trouble getting food from being flightless and injured. All it took was 10 days of food and protection-nature did the rest 

Thank you so much to everyone here for all of your support and guidance! I cried when she left. It was hard to let go of something so beautiful I had been protecting but it is all for the best. I pray she stays safe and warm. May she live in joy!


A follow up comment about Metacam (generic name meloxicam). Given the recommendations about it and how little I know about birds, I hit the books to see if it had an unusually good track record in Avians. What I found was the exact opposite in every exotics veterinary textbook I could access. All mentioned that NSAIDS must be used with a higher caution level than normal in Avian patients because of their different kidney structure. Their glomeruli and nephrons (the basic smallest working structures in the kidney) are set up a bit differently than other species to allow them to excrete highly efficient uric acid. The texts I read suggested these structural differences in their kidneys make them more vulnerable than usual to the problems NSAID can trigger-some even recommended only using them when the Avian patient was being well flushed with IV or SubQ fluids in a critical care situation to ensure the kidneys remain healthy. Metacam was mentioned as being known to cause glomerular failure in some cases. I'm sure many exotics vets frequently prescribe this drug and also will assure people it is very very safe but what is key to realize is that the information they are using to determine its safety was all paid for by the drug manufacturer who profits from sale of the drug. Sadly, when medicines are involved I believe we must always have our best critical thinking turned on to maximum. I personally believe medicines have their time and place but I have to use my own brain to figure much of it out and not trust the drug manufacturer to con me into upping their profits. I realize everyone is different about this- even doctors and vets differ on this issue. I tend to use medications on my pets when they are REALLY sick (risk of impending death) and avoid them if they are in a well state, except for preventatives like heart worm meds for my dogs.

I was very fortunate that the pigeon I was caring for was in a very well state of health in general. Thank you again for all of the help!


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Actually, not 'just' Exotic Vets, but board certified avian vets around the bay area and the country in fact prescribe Metacam within the tolerence ranges of the medicine. I can go to just about any medicine and find a statistical downside to that particular medicine, though this is not the same as a denunciation of its use. There are also cautions about water consumption:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1770067/

I'll probably still drink 'cautionary' water!

Thanks again for helping this pijie out, Marjorie!


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