# Inner Ear Infection in Pigeons?



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

An inner ear infection is often put forward as an alternative diagnosis for the typical symptoms of PMV . 

I have dealt with ear mites but have never come across a pigeon with an ear infection and as far as I can tell it is not mentioned in any of my reference books...not even Levi where the pigeon ear is described in detail .

I wondered what symptoms had been observed, how it was diagnosed, what treatment given and what the recovery period was?

Cynthia


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Cynthia,

I was going to answer earlier but didn't have time.

If no one has ever had a diagnosed case, we may not be able to establish symptoms, treatment, and recovery.

However, lets speculate here, I hope you don't mind....

Middle ear infections in humans, from what I saw... cause fever, major headache and pounding inside the ear. My son had only one when he was 8 years old and he had to lie down with heating pad under his ear for several hours. While most moms got the "pink stuff" I got out the natural products.

So, I would imagine pigeons would be feeling miserable, perhaps loss of equilibrium, no appetite, puffed up. How to differentiate with PMV bird, might be, they don't get worse when stressed.

Pigeons have their eyes and beak and ears so close together that I treatment would need to be started immediately with heavy doses of a natural or traditional antibiotic, once basic life saving requirements were met.

I put my son on an Immunity/Infection formula, with several heavy doses every two to three hours. As he began to respond to the treatment and the pain was not as severe and fever diminished I reduced the dosage. It took a day and a half, and he was completely over it.

I'm going to get specific here so to compare what to give a pigeon:

One cap Formula I (for some reason all these ingredients work better all in one cap): provides 6250 IU of vitamin A, 120 mg, vitamin C, vitamin E, 60 IU
Vitamin B6 4mg, folate 400 micrograms, Vitamin B 12- 12 micrograms, zinc 9.7 mg, Selenium 46 mcrg, copper 1.3 mg.

I would not recommend this product for birds until it is proved safe (cause I'm not sure of the selenium yeast source), but would use the ingredients as a guideline to give them supportive powerful anti-biotic- from the foods they eat, as well as using garlic (unless they were throwing up), and Reishi and Neem that have become used of late. A broad variety of legumes, seeds and grains, would fill the nutritional bill as well as some additional greens powders (minerals and micro minerals) and a drop of organic cod liver oil (vitamin A).

Recovery would depend on if the bird had any other health issues, but most likely would be a few days if a powerful antibiotic (traditional) was used, or heavy doses of a natural antibiotic is administered immediately upon diagnosis. My son might have initially gotten a shot in the bottom if we had gone to the doctor.

Some of you probably think I'm nuts  and here she goes again  , but it works well, quickly (which is absolutely necessary) and supports immune system recovery and uptake.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Cynthia,

If you want to do a search on that (inner ear problems), you can use the keyword "vestibular disease". That's the fun of doing real medical searches: it's another language altogether, and it often seems like the hardest part of the battle is finding the correct medical term to go searching with.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Trees Gray said:


> Some of you probably think I'm nuts  and here she goes again  , but it works well, quickly (which is absolutely necessary) and supports immune system recovery and uptake.


Yes, Treesa, I think you're nuts...

...which is why you fit in so well with the rest of us!  

Pidgey


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I settled for doing a search for the word "ear" in Avian Medicine. It took ages as it app*ear*ed every time that sequence of letters was found, but this was the sum total there:

_Ear problems are
infrequently seen in birds (Color 8.14). Those that do
occur are generally caused by granulomas or neoplasms,
and early detection and surgical correction
are necessary to insure a favorable prognosis. The
ear canal may be hyperemic in birds with sinusitis.


Ear Canal
The external auditory meatus is hidden by specialized
covert feathers that lack barbules. There is no
pinna. The opening is usually rounded but can vary
in diameter from small (2.0 to 15.0 mm in passerine
and psittacine birds) to very large (up to 6.0 cm in
owls). The ear canal is straight and short. The tympanum
can usually be visualized clearly (Color
13.41). A 1.9 mm telescope is often needed to explore
the deeper aspects of the canal. Unlike the dog and
cat, birds infrequently suffer from otitis externa.


A ten-year-old Barn Owl was presented for
a progressive head tilt and ataxia. Physical
examination revealed numerous gramnegative
rods in a necrotic discharge from
the right ear canal. Auditory evoke potentials
indicated a centralized inflammatory
disease. Necropsy indicated an internal
and external bacterial ear infection with
progression to the brain.
Color 1_


Cynthia


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I saw one case of a pigeon with ear infection. My friend found this bird and my vet diagnosed and treated her.
The symtoms were loss of feathers around the ear and purulent secretion from the canal. She was treated acording to the culture and sensitivity test but she did eventually loose vision in the eye on the same side where the infections was.
Now the ear looks good only that the feathers around never grew back.

So, it might be rare, but it can happen.

Reti


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, the auditory portion of the ear is different from the inner ear portion where balance is perceived. You get a lot of the "ear; nose; throat" infections that only very rarely affect the ears of birds, as Reti pointed out. I would imagine that a lot of those do not often cause balance problems in birds except where the pressure of swelling might interfere with the operation of the inner ear.

But what the folks that Cynthia was originally referencing are suggesting is that some PMV-like symptoms come from vestibular disease. Seems like there's often a head tilt and circling with that one. With my bird, YoYo, the vet specifically watched for signs to rule out vestibular disease and finally settled on a form of epilepsy, which someone might also mistake for PMV when not having any real experience with the disease (PMV).

I recently heard or read (can't remember) that some researchers are beginning to think that migraine headaches are a form of epilepsy. That is to say that there is a burst of uncontrolled neurons firing that aren't causing a proprioceptive deficit (lack of awareness) nor directly interfering with motor control, so it's just pain and sensation lightning. The causative chemistry can happen in many different portions of the brain with a plethora of different symptoms. Many injuries to and diseases of the brain have caused epilepsies in many different forms. I don't know if they've truly tested the symptoms of PMV to see if it's the same basic mechanics/chemistry, but the seizures have a certain similarity. I wonder if anyone's done any testing with Potassium Bromide on PMV patients? That's one of the oldest AEDs (Anti-Epileptic Drugs) that they're beginning to use again quite a bit.

Anyhow, vestibular disease is quite a different thing even though it can seem to be very similar. There are specific tests to differentiate but I don't remember them off the top of my head.

Pidgey


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> I recently heard or read (can't remember) that some researchers are beginning to think that migraine headaches are a form of epilepsy


That is very interesting, Pidgey! My doctor prescribed an anti epileptic drug (Epilim) as a migraine preventative . He didn't explain why.


Cynthia


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, then, you'll find this interesting:

http://www.migraines.org/disability/disableg.htm

Pidgey


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Damage to the Balance portion of the inner Ear can result from the use of the medicine 'Genticin' or it's close relatives.

If a Bird were to be treated for in infection of some kind, or an illness, with Genticin, they can very well end up with damage which will make twisting and co-ordination symptoms, and very poor to no flying ability.

Pidgey, what do you think the dose would be (or per kG I guess) for a Pigeon, if one wished to see of it's efficacy for MMPV symptoms?

(I know, I could look it up and do the math....Lol..but this way, it keeps the 'ball' rolling better! Lol...)


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

You mean, for PPMV? Potassium Bromide? Way outa' my league. First thing's first, though: IF it worked, it'd only be to lessen the intensity/duration of the seizures. I doubt it would help in any way, shape or form to minimize the damage from the virus during or after the course of the disease.

One interesting thing about most AEDs, though: once you start the course, it's usually pretty important not to miss a dose. Bad things can happen.

Pidgey


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I think that we can safely rule out the side effects of Genticin when coming across a feral pigeon with nervous symptoms. If in the aviary then the side effects of any medication currently in use would be the first thing to look at.

Cynthia


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