# From soaked seeds to dry...



## Izzy (Sep 17, 2004)

Hi all! I was wondering how long Mel & Misty should keep eating the soaked seed mixture until they graduate to eating just regular seeds? 

The soaked seed mixture I currently feed them consists of small seeds, i.e., millet, milow, wheat, etc., (Kaytee Supreme Fortified Daily Blend Mixture for Doves, to be exact). I soak the seeds a minimum of 5 hours and about 10 mins. before feeding, resoak in hot water to warm the seeds up. I mix about a half scoop of Exact Hand Rearing formula, one capsule of acidolphilus, a pinch of Prime, a pinch of ground up cuttle bone in a bowl first, then add the warmed up, drained seeds, the damp seeds are coated nicely with this mixture. 

They are pecking pretty well at this and Mel didn't even need for me to force any into his mouth, woohoo! Misty is a bit more reluctant and I end up having to scoop some into her mouth to get her crop filled up.

I guess I'm just looking to see if anyone has a 'time frame' of sorts, so I know how long to keep feeding them this and when I can stop soaking and mixing the seeds with the formula. I have no problem doing it this way, just would like to know what I need to add later down the line.

I read that I can also give them thawed out frozen peas and corn as a treat. But, I also read that corn can easily spoil in the crop, is this true? Do you think they are ready for treats yet? Any ideas on what else I can add to their diet at this time? They are both 20 days old today.

Thanks for any information, 
Izzy


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hey Izzy, 

Loved your little pigeon skit. Hehehehe. The babies look so good! There really is no exact time frame on how much longer to feed them the soaked seed diet. You will have to keep doing this now until they are capable of pecking and eating seeds well enough on their own. So, keep practising with them each day to get them interested in feeding themselves. The sooner for you the better Mary has observed that feral pigeons generally wean pretty easily and quickly so hopefully this will be the case with Mel and Misty. Does everything seem to be going well still with Mel's crop emptying? You may want to keep him on the soaked seeds a little longer because of his slower start. I think you are right about the corn in the crop, seems like I have read somewhere it can go mouldy, i'm not totally sure though. Un-roasted, un- salted sunflower seeds seem to be a universal seed that all pigeons enjoy as a treat.



Brad


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Hand raised young birds sometimes wean at a latere date. Say 35 days. I would use dry feed and if you are feeding then wet grain. And a little added water. Plus grit to aid in digestion.


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## Izzy (Sep 17, 2004)

Hi there Brad and Re lee! 

Brad, Mel had a little spell last week when I first added the soaked seeds to his formula mixture. His crop didn't empty well and I waited up to 10 hours before I decided to take a step backward. So, I pulled him off the seeds and went back to straight formula which I mixed with equally baby applesauce, this got his crop moving back to normal again and after 48 hours, I went back to the seeds and he's been doing just great! He's behind Misty, as far as seed eating goes, today was the first day he actually ate them on his own and not included into his formula mix, woohoo, for Mel! lol! Glad you enjoyed their little performance this morning too. 

Oh, I'll be sure to pick up some sunflower seeds too. Should they be unshelled or does it matter?

Re lee, I have a question about your reply. I've been adding ground up cuttle bone to the seed mixture, isn't this grit? If not, why am I adding it? I did see grit at the pet store in boxes, do I need to grind this up also? It looked kinda like tiny rock salt to me. Should I be making sure they have grit even with soaked seeds or is that something they need with the dry seeds?

I think I'll probably just have to pay close attention to them and see how they are doing, that pretty much tells me alot right there, lol!

Thanks for the info,
Izzy


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

The cuttle bone probably will just give a calcium base. Grit is coarse to aid in digestion of the grain. Just a small amount at each feeding does great. You will notice the young birds crop as they grow retain grain longer. The soft mix will digest much faster. I would not get to worried over this. The grain would be best to use at this age. And do away with the apple sauce. I think they would feather and grow better.


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## Izzy (Sep 17, 2004)

For some reason I thought the cuttle bone was grit, doh. I'll get some grit at the store tomorrow and probably go ahead and grind it up a bit, as it looks bigger than some of the seeds I give them.

Oh and the applesauce was a 48 hour thingy that I just gave to Mel when his crop started slowing down. I wouldn't give it to him all the time, but just wanted to make sure he didn't have any other problems and read that this method can speed up emptying of the crop.

The are already retaining the soaked seeds longer than they did the Exact formula, but that makes sense, since it's tougher to digest even soaked seeds compared to a smooth formula. It'll just be nice when I can go longer inbetween feedings, I've kinda been grounded to this house for the past 3 weeks and my friends are wondering if I even go out anymore for over 6 hours, heh.

Thanks for the info,
Izzy


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

Hello Izzy,

Sounds like both Misty and Mel are doing really well with the seeds now 
What you can do is try to introduce dry seeds and see if it's easier for them to pick up, then have a water dish around at all times for them to drink.

As for the grit, red cross or pigeon grit is used for the pigeons and it contains oyster shells sometimes. You can find it at a feed store or pigeon supply place, usually it comes in 40-50lb bags so getting it online is probably better.
Though for now you don't have to worry too much, I find that ferals don't eat grit much and all the youngsters I've raised from various ages didn't need it so they should be just fine. Once they start eating dry seeds on their own at about 30 days+ it's good to have around so they can get used to the grit.

As for snacks, sunflower seeds without the shell is best (never give them with the shells) and same with the raw peanuts (these can be found at a bird food place for squirrels mostly, and if they come in the shell I just remove it before giving it to the pigeons)
Safflower is also a nice treat and veggies like chopped up spinach, kale, grated carrots and even fresh papaya fruit is healthy but don't give broccoli or cabbage.
You don't have to give them all this now at their age, but it's just general info as to what pet pigeons like and what I offer to my own adult pet pigeons 

Hope that helps..


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## Izzy (Sep 17, 2004)

Hi Mary and yes, that's very helpful, thank you!

Mel is doing absolutely fantastic! He just learned to peck this morning and ate his whole dinner pecking and picking up seeds, can you believe that??

Misty is still a bit reluctant for some reason. She watches Mel peck and will run at him and flap her wings, then she pecks like once or twice and then walks over to me, sits down and looks at me. After a half an hour of this, I finally hand fed her some of the seeds, but she doesn't like it.

Is Misty just being difficult? It makes no difference whether Mel is feeding next to her or not, she just loses interest really quickly in pecking. I'll keep at it, but wondering why Mel adapted so quickly and Misty is resisting.

Thanks,
Izzy


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## Sweetie (Sep 15, 2004)

Izzy, the cuttle bone is for filing the birds beaks. I use to own budgies before and I had to git perch covers which had a ruff surface like sandpaper which filed their nails down and because the beaks on the birds grow the birds will often peck and knaw at the cuttle bone and this keeps their beaks growing to long to interfere with their eating. I am not sure if it will help a pigeon's beak or not, but I will ask the question for both of us now.

Will a cuttlebone have the same affect on a pigeon's beak as it does with parrots, budgies and other birds?

Thank you ,

Victoria Lutes (Sweetie)


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

Hi Victoria,

I suggest the cuttle bone to most members because I found that it's an easy way to give calcium if liquid calcium and other supplements can not be found.
The cuttle bone can be ground up after the hard back shell is taken off and the powder can be added to the formula at each feeding or once a day.

I give my pet pigeons cuttle bone too but I chop it up into little cubes and then they eat it, pigeons will not eat it the way parrots do and so I don't think it will give them the same effect of filling the beak.
Sometimes though I hold up a whole cuttle bone and my Dotty tries to attack it with his beak, this might help him file off just a bit as well but otherwise pigeons don't use it for filling their beaks. They are seed eaters and don't act like the parrots I used to have in many ways (like picking up food with their feet and using certain things to sharpen their beaks..etc)

The cuttle bone anyway is convenient to have around, I just add some of the powder to the water or formula if I need to administer some calcium into a bird. I add a pinch of vitamin supplements also because this has other beneficial ingredients which help the body 'absorb' the calcium so they need that too.


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## Sweetie (Sep 15, 2004)

I do have a question. I had received a free coupon from Petco for signing up for the Petco P.A.L.S card. The only choice I had that was for birds was the treat stick for finches and canarys. The ones for Cacatiels and Parots were to big of seed for Sweetie. Although the treat stick had millet seed, it had carrots and other vegetables and grain with it. Can Sweetie eat a treat stick or will she even try to eat the treat stick. The flavour is Vanilla, Honey & Nut.


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