# An option to test your birds in 2015



## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

The original idea behind what evolved into the PT Classic was a one loft type event where members could all send birds, talk a little trash, have some fun and test our birds. I can't remember who started the idea, it was not me. Lovebirds was possibly going to host, she got smart. I ended up doing it twice, followed by Walt, Nomad and the NPR club organized by A_Smith for this years event. I am sure someone will step up and take a crack at it next year. We already of the 2015 PT Invitational. 

As Ace posted in the "Another type of one loft" thread, there are a lot of different ways to test our birds and have fun doing it.

I just want to throw out another option. Especially for those of you cutting back on breeders this fall. 

I am interested in getting a pair of breeders that are representitive of your family of birds. I would want them by Nov 1. Let me get a round of babies out of them for my race team. I will post race results, we can talk trash, hopefully have some fun doing it. This way is just removing more of the variables. Same handling from breeding, hatching, weaning, training to racing. We could send out race kits to other forum members to test out for the second or third round. 

We would have to work out logistics. I would pay shipping in the right situation. Would anyone be interested in something like that? If so post here with suggestions and/or questions.


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## ssyyb2 (Sep 4, 2011)

I'm interested


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Sounds like something I could work


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## luckyloft (Oct 21, 2006)

I would do that. Jeff


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

Well, it is different. I'll give you that.


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## ssyyb2 (Sep 4, 2011)

My question s were latehatches acceptable? I know sexing is not 100% and where are you located?


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

Ssyybfamloft said:


> I'm interested





hillfamilyloft said:


> Sounds like something I could work





luckyloft said:


> I would do that. Jeff


Thanks for your interest! If you could take a second to complete the brief survey in my signature line below that would be great.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

conditionfreak said:


> Well, it is different. I'll give you that.


I know it is different. I really like the one loft race idea, if someone can swing it. I really think we put our birds at a disadvantage the past PT events when we fly at the club and combine level. We are racing against birds that are bred and raised in most cases in the loft they are racing out of. Is it a big set back? I don't know? I don't know that I put stock in eggs moved to another loft flying back to the loft were they were laid story, but I do think there is advantage of raising them locally. This does not take in to account the bio issues with adding stressed YB from all over the country into one loft. When you have a really long shipping window you set back the team a little each time you add a new bird. With the course I fly I need every advantage I can get. 




Ssyybfamloft said:


> My question s were latehatches acceptable? I know sexing is not 100% and where are you located?


Late hatches would be acceptable but with a catch. I am trying to pair birds Thanksgiving. It would take a little more time to pair a late hatch. My ideal situation is retired breeders or birds retired off an old bird race team. Under that situation I would be willing to pay the shipping for around ten pairs. If I had more interest then that it would have to be based on results the past couple of years. 

I would work with 2014 banded birds but would not be able to help with shipping. 

I will limit the total breeders I bring in to 20 pairs.

I live in outside of Sacramento. We would be flying in a one of the toughest courses terrain/weather wise in the country. We fly east to west over the Sierras (7500 feet) and through the Nevada desert, 100+ temps somedays with unpredictable wind. Competition is tuff but like other areas, dwindling. 

Keep the questions coming. If interested please complete the survey below.


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## FT33 (Jan 27, 2005)

I would be interested in this.


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## ejb3810 (May 21, 2012)

Why not just have guys ship you eggs that could be put under your own birds for hatching?
It would potentially accomplish the same thing without the cost and effort to ship live birds.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

ejb3810 said:


> Why not just have guys ship you eggs that could be put under your own birds for hatching?
> It would potentially accomplish the same thing without the cost and effort to ship live birds.


It is an option. I have swapped eggs between pairs but have never shipped eggs. We would be talking about shipping eggs in December, will they be warm enough? I added eggs to the list of options in the interest survey. I have four or five pairs I could devote to this. For anyone that wanted to try to ship eggs we could all pair them on the same date. A couple days difference in the lay date either way will not matter to the birds. I just hope the eggs don't get too cold. Again I am looking to pair the weekend after Thanksgiving. If that fits and someone was brave enough to try it I am up for it. Anyone shipping eggs would be on there own for the cost of shipping.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

A couple other questions that have come up:

If you have and would like to use vanity bands you can mail me a couple. I might wait a week to pair your birds just to make sure I have the bands. I pick up my bands on Jan 1. 

The shipping window for birds will be October 1 to November 1.

I am interested in the first round for the race team. I am shooting for between 40-60 birds. I would like to be closer to 60. After that I can continue to a second or third round and possibly send the birds out to other flyers. It would really depend on what the members that send breeders want me to do. 

There is enough interest that this is going to happen. For those that participate it will be a lot fun. Like the first year I did the PT race, videos and transparency. Your not going to win any money but it will be the most fun you will have sending birds out to another loft. I guarantee it. If you are not complete satisfied I will give you a full refund. 

If you are sending existing pairs, 2013 or older banded birds, I will cover the shipping for ten pairs. Obviously I want a stacked loft. If they are birds you are not sure about, or have not been tested, or they are homing pigeons you got from a friend, I don't really want to pay for shipping. If only tens guys want help with shipping I will help out those ten. If it is more then ten I will have to make a decision based on race results. If I did not select you to be one of the ten I would love to have you still participate. I would just not be able to cover the shipping. 

After the breeding is over what happens? I separate the cocks and hens and we see what happens with the results. If you have a great bird on the YB team you want it back with the breeders you pay shipping. If you don't I will keep them.


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

Sounds like a good way to pick up Birds.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

For those that want help in shipping I am going to let this run until Monday the 22. At that point I will take a look at the survey results and make a decision and let you know via a private message. I am most likely going to keep it confidential as far as who I am paying for. I would love to have you still participate, I just can't pay the shipping for everyone.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

*Kudos to the United States Postal Service*

I know that is not something you hear everyday. It is crazy to think that birds can be dropped off at a small rural post office in Texas yesterday at 1:50 and be in my loft by 10:00 am this morning. It is great when it works.

Jason the birds look great. I was a little concerned when the first bird I pulled out did not have an IF or AU band. Doing this before and opening it up to whomever wants to participate you never know what you will get. Luckily the other three had AU bands. They do have a little more chrome then I am used to. 










As I recall the best bird in the loft in 2010, the first PT Classic Winner was an almost all white bird. I won't write them off yet. 

I know I said I was not going to take birds until Oct 1. Jason had some extenuating circumstances and was not going to be able to ship until late November. I made an exception. 

There is still room for a few more. I am going to pull the plug Monday on new signups. I am excited to fly birds from some great lofts that I have flown for before. Also looking forward to fly some that I am not familiar with. We will have a good group.


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## Xueoo (Nov 20, 2009)

You have a list of breeders yet?


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

Xueoo said:


> You have a list of breeders yet?


So far I have interest from the following PT members (updated 9/17 @ 09:00 PM): 

kalapati
Hillfamilyloft
ft33
jwbriggs
luckyloft
ssyybfamloft
Xueoo
Happy Hilton

Between these eight breeders we are looking at 20 pair. Some have indicated they want to ship two or three pair. I think it would be more fun to have a few more breeders involved. However between the eight on the list I know represented are some of the best bloodlines in the forum. I have flown birds from half the listed breeders before. I know I will have excellent birds in the loft.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

I sent a PM to the breeders listed below. If you did not get it let me know. Thanks again to those that have expressed interest, this will be fun. I am excited to be able to fly in 2015. 



Flapdoodle said:


> So far I have interest from the following PT members (updated 9/17 @ 09:00 PM):
> 
> kalapati
> Hillfamilyloft
> ...


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## blongboy (Nov 10, 2009)

sound like fun..wish i have a few spare breeder, i would love to join


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

It does sound like a great way to pick up Stock.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

blongboy said:


> sound like fun..wish i have a few spare breeder, i would love to join


No worries blongboy, I know this would not be right for everyone. There are many folks that end up cutting back on breeders or not able to fly locally. That is who I was looking for. 



LUCKYT said:


> It does sound like a great way to pick up Stock.


The past two times I have taken birds from the general membership for the PT races I have received great birds. You also have the potential to bring in birds that have questionable racing and homing ability or are not suited to your race conditions. I do put a little stock in the horses for courses idea. I feel some birds are better suited for certain race conditions. I fly a very tough course.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Flap
I am still finding time to ship birds to you. When are you going to pair them? Looking for an opportunity around my work schedule and kid schedule. Trying to swing it in the next couple of weeks. Knowing that you fly a difficult course, I am still assessing which pairs would be best. Also want another week or two to assess the results of the young off a few of my younger pairs. I am looking for two things, proven young pairs. My thoughts are you will probably pair around Thanksgiving and want the bird to settle in before then. 
I also have a nice non-proven grizzle hen off my stock. Wondering if you want any color for you kids? She is 3/4 my stock.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

hillfamilyloft said:


> Flap
> I am still finding time to ship birds to you. When are you going to pair them? Looking for an opportunity around my work schedule and kid schedule. Trying to swing it in the next couple of weeks. Knowing that you fly a difficult course, I am still assessing which pairs would be best. Also want another week or two to assess the results of the young off a few of my younger pairs. I am looking for two things, proven young pairs. My thoughts are you will probably pair around Thanksgiving and want the bird to settle in before then.
> I also have a nice non-proven grizzle hen off my stock. Wondering if you want any color for you kids? She is 3/4 my stock.


Plenty of time to ship. 

So far it is just jwbriggs in the loft plus a dozen birds I have. Of the others that have expressed interest, I have heard back from you, kalapati, lucky loft, Xueoo and Happy. I believe they are all shipping in the next few weeks. Not sure about FT33 or Ssyybfamloft.

Most of those birds here are from the PT 2011. One of which was yours or Mark's. I can't remember who shipped birds that year to me. It is a BB cock, banded with a 2011 AU Go for the Gold band #105. He is a little on the small size but I liked him so he is still here. He could be a paired with your grizzle hen. 

The plan for pairing is the day after Thanksgiving. If you want to wait a few more weeks that is cool. The sooner the better from a getting them settled standpoint. If possible I would like all the bird in the loft by NOV 1. 

Hope you have good results in the races this weekend. Take care... Tom


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## ssyyb2 (Sep 4, 2011)

I'm going to send birds sir! I guarantee you will like them! You did say you wanted pretty right?


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Flapdoodle said:


> Plenty of time to ship.
> 
> So far it is just jwbriggs in the loft plus a dozen birds I have. Of the others that have expressed interest, I have heard back from you, kalapati, lucky loft, Xueoo and Happy. I believe they are all shipping in the next few weeks. Not sure about FT33 or Ssyybfamloft.
> 
> ...


105 was from me. He is a cross between my blood x Houben and Warren Smith blood. I should make the Nov 1st deadline. Would like to see another couple of weeks results. I will send you two established pairs and the grizzle hen. 
Mark won todays race with a bird I bred off his stock. I will shoot for the 20th or 27th. I will let you know. Also they should be done with the molt.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

*Salisbury NC to Newcastle CA in 24 hrs*

Another shout out to the USPS. 

Jeff the birds look great. In the loft safe and sound. 










At some point let me know how you think they should be paired.


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## jwbriggs (Jul 30, 2009)

USPS has stepped up their game the last couple of times I have had birds shipped. Usually anywhere in California would have been a minimum of two days and sometimes three. Having mine get there in 24 Hours was a shock.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

East Coast to the West Coast in less then 24 hrs but intrastate takes over 35. They did arrive in under the time the post office indicated. Most likely driven up in a truck yesterday. 

Bottom line: Happy your birds made it a look great.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

*Colored snap bands*










Bands came, the plan is to mark each breeder's birds I am pairing and the babies with the same color band. That way I will know what birds are from whom and you can identify your birds in the videos.

If anyone has a favorite color let me know otherwise I will just pick... green, blue, white, red, black, yellow, pink, sky blue.

A couple other things... a local flyer is getting out of the sport so I have an option to bring in some other birds. Currently I have 12 pairs in the loft. I want to be 20+. For those that have not sent yet shoot me a PM so I know whether or not you are still on board for this. 

I also received the PMV and paratyphoid vaccines. I will obviously wait until I get all the birds in the loft. Plus I will wait a good 30 days after I vaccinate to pair the birds. Give me a ball park of when you think you may be shipping. Hope all is well with everyone....


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

It will be interesting to see how this collection of breeders and the babies they produce race together. I have around 8 pairs of breeders that I would say are the backbone of my loft and in the same breath tell you that they are all different blood lines. The only thing that helps is the fact that so many loft in Europe and the US were founded with birds that were related in some way . I would bet that if you took DNA tests on this group of birds many would be descended from the same blood lines . This will be fun to watch. You might even get lucky and find one super breeding cock to take your loft and racing into the future.


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## luckyloft (Oct 21, 2006)

I like Green snap on bands, kinda goes with the whole Luckyloft thing. Jeff


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

ERIC K said:


> It will be interesting to see how this collection of breeders and the babies they produce race together. I have around 8 pairs of breeders that I would say are the backbone of my loft and in the same breath tell you that they are all different blood lines. The only thing that helps is the fact that so many loft in Europe and the US were founded with birds that were related in some way . I would bet that if you took DNA tests on this group of birds many would be descended from the same blood lines . This will be fun to watch. You might even get lucky and find one super breeding cock to take your loft and racing into the future.


This will be fun. I am excited to be able to race great birds next year. With most the guys sending two pair I am thinking I will fly just the PT birds. My other birds I will let my son pair up and fly. I have the room in the loft. If I can get three rounds each breeder will have 10-12 birds on my YB team. I will really be able to see whose birds do well on my course. 



luckyloft said:


> I like Green snap on bands, kinda goes with the whole Luckyloft thing. Jeff


Green it is!


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## jwbriggs (Jul 30, 2009)

I would pick Black, since what I sent had so much "Chrome" showing.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

jwbriggs said:


> I would pick Black, since what I sent had so much "Chrome" showing.


Black bands it is. 

Don't hate me for the chrome comment.  I was stereotyping you. In my mind everyone in Texas is a cowboy and rides a horse. Similar to the stereotype that everyone in California lives on the beach and surfs. The chrome comment is a horse term, a flashy horse with high white socks and a white blaze... stands out in a crowd. Like the two cocks. 

I personally really like grizzle and white pigeons. Around here the course we fly most call them hawk bait. In a group of 400 birds the white ones they say stick out in contrast to the blue checks and blue bars. When racing over the Sierras, in and around the granite outcroppings it seems like we loose a few every time. The peregrines start licking there lips... (I mean beaks) when they see a training truck drive up Hwy 80. It is beautiful but unforgiving country the birds fly over. 

I have lost blue bars and blue checks the same as grizzles. I don't think it makes much difference. If the BOP's are hungry they will hit the group. If the babies end up all "chromed" out we can keep track on percentage of losses, see if there is any truth to the statement.


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## jwbriggs (Jul 30, 2009)

Flapdoodle said:


> Black bands it is.
> 
> Don't hate me for the chrome comment.  I was stereotyping you. In my mind everyone in Texas is a cowboy and rides a horse. Similar to the stereotype that everyone in California lives on the beach and surfs. The chrome comment is a horse term, a flashy horse with high white socks and a white blaze... stands out in a crowd. Like the two cocks.


No offense taken, was just making a jab. My fliers at home show a lot of white in the flock from grizzles to pied birds w/white flights. So far this year I have lost a 1 griz and 2 BC to flying predators, I believe it has a lot to do with the BOP's opportunity also.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

*Updates from the USPS four or five hours late....*

Great looking pair of blue bars in the loft from Kalapati. I went ahead and picked red bands for Kalapati's birds. 

The post office still has not updated the website that they have arrived at my post office or that I have picked them up. I guess that is OK they made it safe. I think Hillfamilyloft and the others are shipping next week.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

*Birds made it from Oregon*

Another overnight delivery by the USPS. FT33's birds are in the loft and look great. I banded them with light blue snap bands. It rains a lot in Oregon, light blue seemed to fit. I also added the birds to the breeding record.

Hill Family Loft birds are in route from New Mexico. They should get in tomorrow AM.

That leaves ssyybfamloft and Xueoo. Let me know if/when you plan on shipping.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

*Birds made it from New Mexico*

Hill Family Loft birds are in. I gave them yellow bands. They look great. That makes 11 pairs from 6 members on Pigeon Talk.

Hopefully the other birds ship next week.


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## jwbriggs (Jul 30, 2009)

Looks like it is coming together well.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Flapdoodle said:


> Hill Family Loft birds are in. I gave them yellow bands. They look great. That makes 11 pairs from 6 members on Pigeon Talk.
> 
> Hopefully the other birds ship next week.


I sent two pairs out of my breeding loft. Both have bred points birds this year. 
7749 and 1368 Have been a staple of my breeding loft. So far this year they have bred (20th 100miles 354 birds)(21st 100miles 101 birds). The grizzle hen I sent for the kids is out of a son of Ed x Charlotte crossed from a grizzle bird 18 out of another son of Ed and Charlotte that raced 3rd at 200miles and raced to 500 miles. The other pair has only bred two years, but has produced points birds. Hope they breed some good young.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

hillfamilyloft said:


> I sent two pairs out of my breeding loft. Both have bred points birds this year.
> 7749 and 1368 Have been a staple of my breeding loft. So far this year they have bred (20th 100miles 354 birds)(21st 100miles 101 birds). The grizzle hen I sent for the kids is out of a son of Ed x Charlotte crossed from a grizzle bird 18 out of another son of Ed and Charlotte that raced 3rd at 200miles and raced to 500 miles. The other pair has only bred two years, but has produced points birds. Hope they breed some good young.


I am looking for a cock to pair with the grizzle. Do you recall the pedigree on 2011 GFTG 105? It is a BB cock that I thought was out of your birds. 

I have a few other cocks from the 2011 PT race as well as some from local fliers. I am not sure which way I will go with her yet.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

He is out of 329 and 7797. I think 329 is the same bloodline. I will look it up when I get to my other computer. Using my color coding system 329 is probably a brother to 7749 and 7797 is my blood crossed with Marks. Would be a good cross unless you are after full grizzles. 7749 grandparents are Ed x Charlotte and Kahuna x Cutiepie. Janssen/Vic Miller/Bob Kinney.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Hopefully I an articulate the cross between the grizzle hen and 105. It should work wonderfully. 

105 
Sire Dam
329 7797
Sire Dam Sire Dam
838 47192 801 836

Grizzle Hen
Sire DAM
355 18
Sire Dam Sire Dam
Ed Charlotte 399 Grizzle hen


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

hillfamilyloft said:


> Hopefully I an articulate the cross between the grizzle hen and 105. It should work wonderfully.
> 
> 105
> Sire Dam
> ...


In the pedigrees 838 and 355 are brothers off of Ed and Charlotte. 399 is off another son off of Ed

47192 is off my Tiger and Big Bertha. With 838 they raised me 2nd high points bird. 

The Grizzle hen and 399 were both 500 mile birds. 399 also was 3rd at 250. 399 is off my Ned and Snake Charmer breeders of multiple 1st. The hen is off Ron West Janssens. He was a flier in ABQ some time back. 

801 is a Houben bird burrowed from Mark. 836 is off Warren Smith Stock. 

The Grizzle hen is 3/4 Ed Charlotte. The pairing will bring you 62.5% my stock. I was trying to establish a grizzle family that flies like my birds. I sent 18 to Mark to test the color out. I sent you this hen to test the color out on the West Coast. My goal is to bring back grizzles that can fly. Try her out and see what happens. If you want to find her a grizzle cock feel free. 105 should be a sound breeding bird. He is proven on your course with a decent pedigree.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Note: 329 105s Sire is a brother to my best breeding cock the last two years. 

If anything they can throw some white birds to take the hawk pressure off your other birds.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

While I am at it 781 and 789s lineage. 

781 is off of 1263 and 1274 (1263 is off Maverick 1311 my futurity winner and 353 off Mark's stock.) (1274 is off 329 and 7797 sister to 105)

789 is off of 1279 and 1289 (1279 is out of 45892 off of tiger and Big Bertha and 928 my 220 mile 2nd place winner-she is out of a grandson of Ikon and 801 blood from Mark.)

All three pairings are somewhat related as you can see. Should breed some sound birds for you.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

hillfamilyloft said:


> Note: 329 105s Sire is a brother to my best breeding cock the last two years.
> 
> If anything they can throw some white birds to take the hawk pressure off your other birds.


Sounds good, we will pair the grizzle with 105. 

The family has bred great birds. I am excited to have them. 

As far as hawk pressure that is why we have those Texas birds in the loft.  just kidding Jason....


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

It looks like a couple of the guys are not going to make it. Life happens no big deal. I am going to pull the plug on adding any new birds after this week, if you are going to ship let me know. 

If there is anyone following along that wants to participate PM me. They would have to be able to ship this week. I want to start preparing these breeders but want all the birds in the loft in order to do so. 

I did pick up some birds from a local flyer he was culling. Some good birds in the group, 2002 and 2003 birds. Great birds just older. I may try a couple pair.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

hillfamilyloft said:


> I sent two pairs out of my breeding loft. Both have bred points birds this year.
> 7749 and 1368 Have been a staple of my breeding loft. So far this year they have bred (20th 100miles 354 birds)(21st 100miles 101 birds). The grizzle hen I sent for the kids is out of a son of Ed x Charlotte crossed from a grizzle bird 18 out of another son of Ed and Charlotte that raced 3rd at 200miles and raced to 500 miles. The other pair has only bred two years, but has produced points birds. Hope they breed some good young.


LL 1313 off 7749 and 1368 finished 30th this weekend at 300 miles 6 minutes out and the third birds in the loft on the drop with the second bird. 200 birds in the race. Not bad considering the winner had 86 birds in the race and the guy that flew 1313 only had 15. Speed was 1400ypm.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

I am excited to see how they do for me here.


hillfamilyloft said:


> LL 1313 off 7749 and 1368 finished 30th this weekend at 300 miles 6 minutes out and the third birds in the loft on the drop with the second bird. 200 birds in the race. Not bad considering the winner had 86 birds in the race and the guy that flew 1313 only had 15. Speed was 1400ypm.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

It looks like from PT we have 12 pairs. I have another 13 pairs from prior years and other local birds I picked up this season. I am going to hold off on the other birds and leave it up to the 12 pairs you guys sent for my young bird team. A few of the birds are still molting. I am going to miss pairing them up the day after Thanksgiving. Most likely be a couple weeks after. I am going to try to get three rounds. 

1st round for the YB team. I will fly them on a system and get them molted out before the races start. 

The second round I want to send out... maybe another flyer here on PT that would post results. A fun option would be sending them out to one loft races. What do you guys think?

The third round I want to keep on the natural molt fly to first race or two for experience then fly them as yearlings.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Whatever you want to do. Anything sounds good to me.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

LL 1313 off of 7749 x 1368 did pretty good in the futurity race with the North West Fliers in ABQ finishing 12th at 350miles. The bird also help the flier in points and average speed. LL1314 its sibling also had a few top 10% finishes. 

LL 1313 was 1st to the loft twice. Should be a good pair for you.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Any update on the birds?


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

I missed pairing by Thanksgiving by several weeks, more then a few. Birds were paired on Jan 14, no eggs yet, all but three pair are stacking pine needles. I should see some eggs today or tomorrow. I will update the breeding record with notes on each pair this weekend.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

One of the jwbriggs pair and both of luckyloft pairs have laid their first eggs. The pair date was Jan 13 not 14. I did not pre-pair them like I had hoped. Cocks and hens had been separated as long as I have had them. On the 13 I just put them together in individual rabbit hutch type cages. 

They are also on natural light. I have lights in there now that I will start to turn on tonight. They will go on about 5 tonight until 10:00 pm. Hopefully get the few pair not building up and going.


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## jwbriggs (Jul 30, 2009)

Flapdoodle said:


> One of the jwbriggs pair and both of luckyloft pairs have laid their first eggs.



Good to hear, thanks for the update!


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

I will continue to add notes on each pair in the breeding record linked below.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

Second eggs laid by the three pairs mentioned below. Three other pairs laid their first eggs, one from happy and two from hillfamilyloft. 

I started the lights. I have put them on a timer and decide to have them come on in the morning and natural light in the evening. I am not always there to turn them off at night and did not want the lights to happen to shut off with the birds off the nest. 

I updated the breeding record... I hope all is going well for everyone else.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

You can check the breeding record. Nine pairs have laid at least the first egg. Three have not. Of the three pair the two pair from Oregon have both built nests and I suspect eggs tomorrow. The San Diego birds, they seem to like each other just fine, both in the nest, have no interest in the needles. Will keep you posted...


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

I will keep updating the breeding record. Out of the 12 pairs sent in, 10 are on eggs. Of the remaining two pair one laid the 1st egg today. The San Diego birds are close but nothing yet. 

I will candle the eggs the end of next week. 

We should see some babies Feb 13 or 14.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Are you kid's enjoying the process?


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

hillfamilyloft said:


> Are you kid's enjoying the process?


One of my daughters and my son are both interested. They helped clean the nest bowls and gather pine needles. They enjoyed watching the nests being built, not really hip on the waiting part but we should have babies soon enough. 

San Diego pair laid their first egg yesterday. I have one other pair from a local flier that is building but no eggs yet.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

*12 babies so far*

I updated the breeding record. It looks like pair 3 the eggs are clear, they have not hatched but should of. I will update with more info, over the next few days.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

*20 banded so far*

Here is a video of some of the babies. It is short, and not all that great. 

As you can see from the video all the babies except pair 7 have been taken out of the boxes I use for nest bowls and put on the floor of the cages. One of the pair #10 babies was eating out of the feed bowl with her parents this morning. Some will move to their own loft section this weekend. 

http://flapstestloft.blogspot.com/2015/03/squeakers.html 

The goal is to get a video posted each Sunday night form here on out. 

From the 2nd round I will pick a baby by raffle to send to the state race. One bird from each breeder will also go to a local one loft. The remaining 2nd round birds will be kept separate from the 1st round in their own section.


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## jwbriggs (Jul 30, 2009)

Thanks for the update, not as much "chrome" off my pairs as expected.


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## kalapati (Aug 29, 2006)

very nice video Flap and the birds are all looking great!


kalapati
San Diego
http://www.bluebarloft.com/


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Interesting stuff, should have checked in sooner


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

*Dinner March 22nd*

https://youtu.be/S3GrZHzq1fA

If you want to lose 8 minutes of your life you can watch the video. I will turn the camera the other way in the future. Bottom line is the 18 weaned birds are all doing well. One blue bars with a yellow band is the most bold. I really need work on notes, highest perch, bossy around the loft, I am curious if any of that will relate to race performance.

Pair number 3 and 7 both have 2 healthy babies. Pair 15 has 1 baby.

Pairs 1-13 (except 3 & 7) are down on eggs. 

I will work on updating the breeding record early sometime this week.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Cool video thanks for posting


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## luckyloft (Oct 21, 2006)

Thanks for the video.....the colored snap bands idea is great, easy to pick out which birds came from who. Jeff


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Flapdoodle said:


> https://youtu.be/S3GrZHzq1fA
> 
> If you want to lose 8 minutes of your life you can watch the video. I will turn the camera the other way in the future. Bottom line is the 18 weaned birds are all doing well. One blue bars with a yellow band is the most bold. I really need work on notes, highest perch, bossy around the loft, I am curious if any of that will relate to race performance.
> 
> ...


I have found that it does correlate with breeding prowess. Top shelf birds is what I call them. Cock birds especially. I like the birds that take the top perches, the top nest boxes. ext. Chances are that BB will run the racing loft. Do you know what pair he is off of? He is probably off of Kahuna via Buzz his son. Looks similar and acts just like them. I was in the loft one day and heard a bunch of commotion. Kahuna was on eggs fighting off a snake. The snake most likely bit him multiple times, but he would not budge. He would have fought to the death before he would give those eggs up. At the time he ran 4 nest boxes.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

My bet is he is cock off 1368. She is a daughter off Buzz who is a son of Kahuna. If he is off the other pair he gets that barrel chest from both Kahuna and Tiger. They were by far my two strongest foundation cock birds. He looks more like Kahuna.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

In retrospect I bet he is off 781 and 789. 789's Dam is my friendliest bird in the loft. At one time she thought I was her mate. She would not pair up with any other bird. She followed me around the loft eating safflower. Acts just like the BB. She is a daughter off of Tiger.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

To this day she will come to the wire and nibble on my finger.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

*I might of broke the unpardonable rule of breeding pigeons.*

When we took the pigeons out of the nest boxes we put on the colored snap bands. I called out band numbers and colors and my daughter took notes. I am have difficulty finding the notes. 

I have a few more places to check. Please don't hate me. With the colored snap bands and the previous video from the nest I should be able to recreate 100% accurate band list. 

If you have another 7 minutes to kill. 

https://youtu.be/DYYkC4H3nWY


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

No worry, they are all from the same blood.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

*San Diego BBs in the loft, 1st bath*

Weaning two two new babies. They both look great. I let their parents feed them this morning. They were in the loft all day with the other young birds and then back with parents at night. I will do that for a couple of days. 

First bath this afternoon. 803 was the first bird in the water. I ran out of storage on the phone so had to stop the video to delete old stuff. All the birds with the exception of the two new babies took a bath. 

*VIDEO*

I have been feeding all they will clean up in 10-15 minutes twice a day. I will feed very little tomorrow AM. If we don't have strong wind I will take the settling cage off in the afternoon before the evening feed.

I will also do an inventory in the morning and sort out my band list.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

*First flight out in the open*

Yesterday afternoon was the first time the birds were out without the settling cage. They were out about an hour and then all trapped back in. 

*video*

I sorted out the band list and updated the breeding record. Round two babies are starting to hatch, pairs 5,6,12 are on babies. 

I hope all is well for everyone.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

*8 A W O L*










801, 803, 804, 807, 810, 813, 814, & 815 spent the night out of the loft last night. My fault I let them out too late and I am overfeeding them. Luckily no BOP around last night or this morning. It took some coaxing to get them in this morning after flying for 30 minutes or so. 

New babies this weekend, pair 1 and 5 both missed an egg. Pair 6, 11, 12 both have two.


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## Happy (Dec 19, 2004)

Flap, You make the Best Video's of anyone I know.. Great job. Makes it fun to see this. Hope ya get better Hatching on next rounds of breeders. Also saw that you could get a bird or 2 in Calif. State Race as they opened up for 50 more birds. Hope so. I will send 2 for the Race, as made enough to cover this yr. on 2014 Race, but not by much. 
Anyway, thanks for the Video Updates. Happy


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

*My girls feeding the pigeons*



Happy said:


> Flap, You make the Best Video's of anyone I know.. Great job. Makes it fun to see this. Hope ya get better Hatching on next rounds of breeders. Also saw that you could get a bird or 2 in Calif. State Race as they opened up for 50 more birds. Hope so. I will send 2 for the Race, as made enough to cover this yr. on 2014 Race, but not by much.
> Anyway, thanks for the Video Updates. Happy


I have one spot in the state race, I passed on getting a second. The plan is to get a bird from each pair in two different local one lofts. They both fly the same course I race and will help test the birds. 

We will make a video of the raffle for my single entry into the state race. 

My two youngest helped me feed the birds after they trapped. Happy there is a bc cock out of your pair that takes center stage. He is eating out of both my daughters hands in the video. 

https://youtu.be/PeBuywCEwLw


The birds are doing well. I did have a bird hit a wire, it made it back to the loft but had internal injuries and did not make it. It was a bb hen from San Diego. 

I lost two babies in the nest to a snake. One baby from pair 11 and one from pair 12. I had swapped babies from the pairs, they each had a smaller baby. The snake killed both babies. It got the head and neck in its mouth then had to abort because it can't get over the body. I mowed and moved a wood pile. I also spent thirty bucks on sticky traps from home depot. Trying to catch it. So far just a mouse. Have not see the snake or had any other issues with babies. 

I am in the process of weaning the second round. Some pairs are back down on the third set of eggs. I need to update my breeding record. Hope all is well with everyone...


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

Buy a mouse at the pet shop, kill it, then find a good poisonous agent, and get it into the mouse's stomache without the poison touching the sides of the mouth or esophagus.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

bbcdon said:


> Buy a mouse at the pet shop, kill it, then find a good poisonous agent, and get it into the mouse's stomache without the poison touching the sides of the mouth or esophagus.


Don, How in the heck do I do that? Will a snake eat a dead mouse?

No new problems with the snake. So I think we are good.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

*2nd toss 4.6 miles*

It only took the birds two and half hours. Blazing fast... they better watch out for us this fall. The race team is only 19 birds. The birds are on lights I will pull the flights and cut the lights towards the end of May. Lock them down and get them through the molt. 

2nd round first bird went to a one loft race this weekend. I am trying to get one bird from each pair in one of two races. 

Gold Country Challenge
Sierra Ranch Classic

Unfortunately pair 7 just hatched their second round babies Saturday. I won't make the cut off for either one loft race (May 15th). I will take one of the babies from pair 7 for my State Race Entry. The second will perhaps be a replacement bird at one of the races. I will keep you all posted. 

The second round and third round babies I will fly while the first round is locked down. Before the race start in July I will get the groups together. The 2nd and 3rd rounders I will get to the first couple races then hold them back once they start to molt, they are not on any lights just natural. I will keep them and birds from the first round that fly the entire YB series for old birds next year. 

Short video of the first toss. 

https://youtu.be/s0Hk72LtXWs


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Any updates?


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

hillfamilyloft said:


> Any updates?


What is an update? 

Short version: About 30 birds on the YB team. I have paid upfront, no chip rings yet. My old bands no longer work. I ordered new ones and they came Friday. I should get bands but on the birds and will start posting inventory updates from tosses. The birds look great, They have been vaccinated for PMV, Salmonella and have been poxed. 

I did not make the entry for the state race, I was going to send a pair 7 bird but they were off so elected not to ship. I missed/lost my $100 deposit. 

I did make it in to the Sierra Ranch Classic and Gold Counrty Challenge. 

Sierra Ranch looks like 696 total birds right now. I have five birds, it looks like they are all there and clocking in. They are just starting to train. 

You can look at each bird under my name in the inventory section or breeders list, http://www.srclassic.com/

826 luckyloft
828 jwbriggs
829 FT33
830 HillFamilyLoft
832 Happy

Gold Country Challenge looks to have 390 birds. I have six birds, they all look to be there, I did notice that 893 did not clock in this morning. 

http://www.goldcountrychallenge.com/

820 HillFamilyLoft
831 Happy
833 HillFamilyLoft
834 FT33
870 jwbriggs
893 luckyloft


More to follow...


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Beautiful -thats an update.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

29 flyers paid the $150 deposit. $285 is the upfront money to fly YB's this year. I expect birdage the first race will be around 500 birds. 

Recap of our course, we fly east to west. My loft is about 65 miles west of the pass. The birds fly from towns in Nevada along highway 80. 

First race is Fernley NV Aug 22nd, about 115 miles. The birds will fly 55 miles through the Nevada desert about 4,000' in elevation towards the Sierra Nevada Mnts, up and over the pass, about 8,000 feet then down hill 65 miles to the loft about 400'. Weather is rather unpredictable with winds going different directions, hot temps, fires, BOP's... it makes for a tough course. 

We have 10 fires right now in the north half of the state. One of which is 30 miles from me, just north the line of flight. Air quality sucks. 

Most of the training to date has been opposite of line of flight. I can get further faster going that direction, plus I don't have the BOP problems flying from the west direction. 

This week we started flying the line of flight. A toss at Blue Canyon (40 miles) and one at Hwy 20/Hwy 80 intersection (45 miles). Tomorrow we are going to do a group toss from Boreal Ski Resort, 56 miles. It is just this side of Donner Pass. 

Smoke has not been bad, it was totally clear on the Blue Canyon toss, this morning from 20/80 it was a little hazy. 

We have 31 birds. On today's toss most the birds came in scattered over 15 minutes. I am guessing they met up with another flyer or a BOP. An hour and half after I released them I had 27 in the loft but had to leave. I will check in at lunch to see if we get the other 4. 

Will get chip rings put on Saturday. 

The rest of the schedule:

Fernley 115 miles Aug 22nd
Fallon 145 miles Aug 29th
Lovelock 185 miles Sept 5th
Imlay 200 miles Sept 12th
Winnemucca 245 miles Sep 19th
Carlin 315 miles Sept 26th
Valmy 265 miles Oct 3rd
Elko 320 miles Oct 10th


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

At lunch yesterday we only had two birds out of the four that were missing. They both looked fine. So that puts us at twenty nine birds. 

This morning I grouped tossed. We did not get all the way to Boreal. They were let out an exit shorter from Soda Springs (about 55 miles). 

They were let out together, he has 50+ birds. The first group of my birds (28) came together with 8 of his. His circled and headed the mile or so to his house. He had one of ours land in a tree above his loft then flew back home. It was a good toss. 

Because they came real good today, the plan pending the fire situation is to toss from Boca Reservoir (70 miles) on Monday. Another group toss. That is about 13 miles the Nevada side of the Sierras. 

There is going to be a practice race on the 15th. I think from the race station , 115 miles. I want to get them over the hill at least three times before the practice race. 

Will get the bands and a physical inventory done tomorrow. 

I hope all is well with everyone...


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

30 birds in the loft when I locked up tonight. 

Hooked up the clock and bands are going on the birds tomorrow.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

Flapdoodle said:


> 30 birds in the loft when I locked up tonight.
> 
> Hooked up the clock and bands are going on the birds tomorrow.


29 of our birds in the loft... number 30 is a stray from another loft. 

Chip rings are on, clocked hooked up, all the bands appear to be working, I will post results from future tosses. 

Inventory


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

Hawk hit yesterday lot flying, 822 is out for the season but should make it.

Toss today was going to be Boca (70 miles) but there was heavy fog. That happens in around Truckee pretty frequently. My buddy took our birds a little further a couple exits the other side of the fog. Ended up releasing from Boomtown NV (80 miles). The birds did pretty good. Most came home within 30 minutes. One this afternoon, but we did get them all home. 

Inventory


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

*One loft birds*

The birds I sent out to Sierra Ranch Classic and Gold Country Challenge are all still there and clocking but nothing really to report yet.


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## Happy (Dec 19, 2004)

Tom, Thanks for the updates & training the birds good & 1 Loft info.. The Stray will probably beat our Top (Breeder) Birds Sent Oh ya, been there, Done that. Happy


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## heeler (Nov 19, 2013)

Flapdoodle said:


> Hawk hit yesterday lot flying, 822 is out for the season but should make it.
> 
> Toss today was going to be Boca (70 miles) but there was heavy fog. That happens in around Truckee pretty frequently. My buddy took our birds a little further a couple exits the other side of the fog. Ended up releasing from Boomtown NV (80 miles). The birds did pretty good. Most came home within 30 minutes. One this afternoon, but we did get them all home.
> 
> Inventory


Did I misunderstand? Your birds came home in 30 minutes from 80 miles??
80 miles - 30 mins on the wing = 4693.33 YPM 
Is my math wrong or is that a group of REALLY good birds.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

heeler said:


> Did I misunderstand? Your birds came home in 30 minutes from 80 miles??
> 80 miles - 30 mins on the wing = 4693.33 YPM
> Is my math wrong or is that a group of REALLY good birds.


Your math is correct, they are a very fast group of birds. 

What I was trying to say was most the birds came in within 30 minutes of each other. It took the first birds about two hours to home 80 miles. 

Today I tossed from 80/20 it is about 45 miles. We had our first group of 21 trap in together. It was with another loft. I like to train together but it does make it hard to feed each bird correctly. The others were several minutes behind the first group.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

Happy said:


> Tom, Thanks for the updates & training the birds good & 1 Loft info.. The Stray will probably beat our Top (Breeder) Birds Sent Oh ya, been there, Done that. Happy


I hope they do well. Last night was the club meeting. It has been a tough year on losses. It looks like we will not be the only ones not shipping the full allotment each race. 

The stray was actually a one loft race bird. He is back in the one loft. He may be racing against our birds in a few weeks.


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## heeler (Nov 19, 2013)

HaHaHa ahhhhh ok then, I was gonna "BEG" you to sell me some of those bad boy's, sorry to interrupt your thread but thanks for clearing that up.
Tim (Driftwood Lofts)


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

heeler said:


> HaHaHa ahhhhh ok then, I was gonna "BEG" you to sell me some of those bad boy's, sorry to interrupt your thread but thanks for clearing that up.
> Tim (Driftwood Lofts)


Interrupt the thread anytime you like. 

Saturday is going to be a practice race. I am going to drive the trailer so will film the release. It is just our club and will be about 115 miles. 

We tossed three times last week, the birds are looking good. I will toss Tuesday and a buddy will take them up Thursday. Most the birds are coming in together although they are being released with the other loft. I hope this helps when the races start. I guess we will see. It is a small team and there are a couple of flyers with 4 times the birds I have. 

I will add the results of the tosses this Tuesday and Thursday to the spreadsheet. 

Sierra Ranch has been doing a little road training. Gold Country Challenge will start up the round in a couple of weeks. The birds I sent to both races look to still be there but they have not really done any real training yet.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

*One Loft Birds*

I added a sheet to the inventory, you should be able to click the bottom left and switch between my race team and the one loft birds. I will add one for Gold Country when they start training. The numbers just represent trapping order.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

*Training Toss at 80&20*

Nothing really to see, other then beautiful country. I let them out and they did not circle at all and flew home. 

VIDEO

I spaced it and did not have the clock hooked up before I left. They beat me home... I chased them all out of the loft hooked up the clock and let them come back in. We only had 27 in the clock when I checked it. Hopefully we get a straggler. I could be down a bird.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

*Then there was 26*

Tossed from Sutter Buttes yesterday 36 miles, opposite the line of flight. It took them over an hour to get home with a couple stragglers and a dropped bird. 

Loft flew today, I got about thirty minutes out of some, not really happy about that. Some of them flew another 40 minutes... over all they look great. 

Friday we basket for a trial race with just the club, we will basket the birds to make sure all the chip rings are working and that there are no issues. It will be 115 miles. We will do knock off I think Sunday morning but no official results. 

Will leave them locked up tomorrow. I will also check over the birds really good, especially the late birds as I am basketing. 

Ready or not it is go time...


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

*One loft birds*

Sierra Ranch released from Truckee today. I updated the trapping results on the inventory spreadsheet. 

Gold Country Challenge has done a couple of pre-tosses, The six I sent are still there, I will start tracking the birds on the spread sheet after Matt gets them out past 25 miles or so.


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## Happy (Dec 19, 2004)

Good Luck on the Training Race today Tom. Hope all birds make it. Course they have to Break from this Pack.. Know you are at a disadvantage location off course. Has to be one of those days they fly so High that they don't have to go through the I-80 Gap. Hap


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

Happy said:


> Good Luck on the Training Race today Tom. Hope all birds make it. Course they have to Break from this Pack.. Know you are at a disadvantage location off course. Has to be one of those days they fly so High that they don't have to go through the I-80 Gap. Hap


They are coming in slowly, but coming. We sent 26 and have 19. They were let out at 6:25 around 115 miles. I will try to post a video of the release. Five flyers shipped, my 26, a flyer with 27, one with 51 all pretty close to me, the other two have about 60 birds each and are north of us 15 and 20ish miles. The other clubs are south and east of us, we did not toss with them. 

Four on the first drop *802*, *803* (slow to trap), 814, 847

I updated the inventory... will post more later tonight.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

The flyer with 27 took the first 14 spots. We were 17-19 I think, I have not seen results, out of town on my phone posting the this. One of the guys is out 20 birds, I am out 4. 

Not much to see but here is the release. 

Video


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

Out of town for the last few days, last hurrah before the kids start back to school. 

I did not get any of the four MIA birds back. Looking at the results it was tough all around. I would guess they got mixed up with Bay Cities Combine or something, but who really knows. Out of the four flyers that showed up to knock off here is the last bird/birds sent. 

Windancer 25/27 out 2
Big Dogs 39/51 out 12
Me 22/26 out 4
Krissys Loft 20/41 out 21

Sierra Ranch was not at knock off. 

I will try to get the results posted each week. I also added the race schedule. We have 6 flyers in the club, 29 for the combine I think.

No training toss this week for the birds, just loft flying. I measured out the food in individual bags for each day while I was away and he let them out each morning. I let them out this morning and they flew for a good hour. They look good. First official race back up to Fernley is Saturday.


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## Matt M (Mar 2, 2011)

Tom,

We didn't have a Bay Cities Combine race last weekend so they couldn't have gotten mixed in with us but we did have a pre-season race last weekend just for our club to get the birds ready. However, our prep race was from the Hwy 4 up past Bear Valley towards Ebbetts Pass so I doubt they got mixed with those. Good luck from Fernley today. We do have the 1st combine race going today from Yerington that was released at 6:45am. They shouldn't get mixed unless the Yerington birds get way too far North. Good luck!

-Matt


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

Matt M said:


> Tom,
> 
> We didn't have a Bay Cities Combine race last weekend so they couldn't have gotten mixed in with us but we did have a pre-season race last weekend just for our club to get the birds ready. However, our prep race was from the Hwy 4 up past Bear Valley towards Ebbetts Pass so I doubt they got mixed with those. Good luck from Fernley today. We do have the 1st combine race going today from Yerington that was released at 6:45am. They shouldn't get mixed unless the Yerington birds get way too far North. Good luck!
> 
> -Matt


Or if ours go way South  I hope you do well today.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

806 is the first bird to the loft in the A race

841 is the first bird in the loft in the B race

Nothing to write home about, first bird in both races just made the top 20%. The birds were fat, I was in Southern California Sunday until late Wednesday night. No training tosses just loft flying and maybe a little overfed. I should of tossed them Thursday but did not get home until very late Wednesday night. 

I entered just the trapping order on the spreadsheet, shaded means they were sent in that race. When I get the results emailed I will post them, both club and combine. 

I did have 22 birds in the loft tonight. Unfortunately don't know what bird is missing but will check tomorrow.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

The bird that is missing is 801. 800 was hit by a hawk or ran into something. He has a small puncture on the front of his neck. I will pull him from the flying loft to heal up. 

I updated the inventory sheet to reflect the birds that were late or missing. Still waiting for the club and combine pdf email to post the full results.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

*One Loft Birds*

Sierra Ranch Classic had the 100 mile qualifier today. Nothing really to report except all five birds are still in the running. The first race towards average speed is listed for 9/8. 

Gold Country has just started tossing the birds, all local stuff. The six I sent are all there.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

I updated the results link with the club and combine race results from last week. The combine report shows average speed and champ bird and loft. So far I am just an also ran. I did not make the first page in one of the races and was just barely on the first page in the other. 

Tossed today about 50 miles, The birds are straggling in something split them up. It was a toss with another loft about a mile from me and he is in the same boat. I had 19 in the loft almost two hours after the release. Out two... hopefully they are in now. 

Saturday's race is from Fallon NV, 148 or so miles to my loft.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

Having a rough year with BOP's. Yesterday was the 3rd bird the past month to make it back to the loft beat up. Unfortunately this bird, 815 did not make it. Another did not make it back from the toss. That makes 19 flyable birds in the loft. 

It makes it tough to keep sending them.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

*Benzing Live*










I broke down and purchased a Benzing Live setup. It came this afternoon and was pretty easy to set up once I updated the software on the M1. 

I don't know if anyone will care but you can see some of the race unfold realtime by looking at the Benzing Live website Saturday morning. The screen shot is from the race last week. I do like the cool map that show the lofts using Benzing Live. 

If interested on Saturday look under public flights section under Camellia Combine Fallon. I say some of the race because not everyone uses the system. 

When I log in I will be able to see each race and training toss, I see each birds average speed in races and also a breakdown for training. For races I can see how many birds were sent from each loft and how many have returned. The big benefit I can see the birds trapping from a race or training toss from any internet source. Still trying to figure it out but it looks pretty slick. 

The birds had another toss today and all made it home within four or five minutes except one bird 15 minutes out. It was a toss with another loft at around 45 miles. They look good and I think I have the vacation weight off.


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## V-John (May 15, 2008)

I'm just lurking on this race, but that is so cool! ^^^


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

Tough day, I am at 930 yrd/min with no birds yet


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## Happy (Dec 19, 2004)

Flap, this doesn't sound good. Sure hope they get in.. Hap


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

*Congrats Hill Family Loft "804" took 1st by one second*

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_Xp0Jk-p0iTfl9HS0tLaGVFU25GeloxNmdldUZWb25YdGZNWmpDZUJQdHVTUkhPdjFYNGM

I am crazy busy this weekend. I uploaded results, They are under "Club Races 8/29 Fallon". Hope you can see them. 

I will write more hopefully tomorrow night. Tough day all around...

15 birds out of 19 in the loft...


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Cool
I feel pretty confident in my birds to win a race or two every year. I would love for them to become more consistent though. It looks like that pair may be something you can hang on to. 803 and 804 are flying decently. That pair has a little bit of everything in my loft. My goal was to at least get you one pair that would be worthy of keeping for foundation. I am glad they are starting to show in the club and get you some points. Too bad we could not win both races for you. Maybe some of the other guys longer distance stuff can hold up the back end of the season.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Looking at the pedigrees I see a hodge lodge of my bloodlines mixed with many of Marks "Ace in the Hole" birds. Three of the Grandparents were my birds crossed with Marks. The other is 3/4 mine with a bit of Denver bird in it. Some notable in the pedigree are Red Rose Motown Missile, My Maverick Futurity winner, Mark's 7797, and my foundation Kahuna and Ed. Those birds are definitely mutts. Hope they keep it up.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

hillfamilyloft said:


> Cool
> I feel pretty confident in my birds to win a race or two every year. I would love for them to become more consistent though. It looks like that pair may be something you can hang on to. 803 and 804 are flying decently. That pair has a little bit of everything in my loft. My goal was to at least get you one pair that would be worthy of keeping for foundation. I am glad they are starting to show in the club and get you some points. Too bad we could not win both races for you. Maybe some of the other guys longer distance stuff can hold up the back end of the season.


Still no combine results yet. I know of a least one bird for sure that beat us. So a possible 1st club / 2nd combine on a very tough day. 

Unfortunately I did lose one breeder. Go figure, It was 781 the cock from this pair. I have no idea why? He was healthy and when I went to the individual breeder cage one morning he was dead. The babies and hen made it fine. The babies were a little more then two weeks old. In fact it is these babies that are in the two one loft races. Half way through the season I might pull one of the yellow banded cocks to pair with the hen. We will see...


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

Happy said:


> Flap, this doesn't sound good. Sure hope they get in.. Hap


It was a very tough day. 

We shipped 19 and I have 19 in the loft but only 18 in the clock. 4 came in last night after knockoff another 4 this morning. I will do a roll call tomorrow. The bird not in the clock is 814. I either have a foreign bird, one that had been missing from before, a missing chip or he might of clocked in while I was disconnected for knock off. 

Hap 855 is out of your stuff and is the first bird in the A race back to the loft, 11th in the club, just shy of top ten percent. 

I will post combine results when I get them.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Flapdoodle said:


> Still no combine results yet. I know of a least one bird for sure that beat us. So a possible 1st club / 2nd combine on a very tough day.
> 
> Unfortunately I did lose one breeder. Go figure, It was 781 the cock from this pair. I have no idea why? He was healthy and when I went to the individual breeder cage one morning he was dead. The babies and hen made it fine. The babies were a little more then two weeks old. In fact it is these babies that are in the two one loft races. Half way through the season I might pull one of the yellow banded cocks to pair with the hen. We will see...


I can also send you a cock to breed with her.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

hillfamilyloft said:


> I can also send you a cock to breed with her.


Sounds good, we will see how the rest of the season shapes up. I am going to keep with a smaller group of breeders. Not sure of the criteria yet. Maybe only keep the breeders that had a first bird to the loft in one of the 16 races. Maybe only those that score points. Will see how the rest of the season shapes up. I have 8 of the 3x4 4H lofts I built. I might whittle the group of 15 pairs down to 8.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

*Combine results are posted*

Ended up 1st in the club/20 combine, 27 lofts 415 birds. 

Sierra Ranch has the first race Thursday. I think I messed up. I was on the tail end of the shipping window getting them to the loft. I wonder how far they have progressed in the molt? I guess we will see. It will be the first of five races. I think around 150 miles.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

*Sierra Ranch Classic*

First race today, Lovelock NV 170 miles. We only have one of the five I sent in the clock right now. Apparently there is a problem with the clock he posted the birds are still coming in but he will update tonight. 

It happens to be out of the pair that also bred the bird who scored first in the club last week. Pair ten from Hill Family Loft.

55 out 561, Based on the results maybe the 5th or 6th drop. 

I am not sure when the next race is. 

The club race for us Saturday is Lovelock NV 178 miles to my loft.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

*Tough day for me*

Something is up with my birds. I have 12 back from the 18 I sent. I am sure I will be down on the sheet. 

My first bird in the A race is a little grizzle hen out of Hill Family Loft stuff. First bird in the B race is out of the jwbriggs birds.

Benzing Live is showing us down 29th in the A race and 30 in the B race. That is only 8 of the 27 lofts. We won't have club results until Monday night. I evaluate the birds and maybe sit out next week will see.

It looks like we dropped two of the five birds in the Sierra Ranch Classic. Tuff week all around...


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## jwbriggs (Jul 30, 2009)

Thanks for the updates.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

*update*

Of the 18 sent last week we are still down two. Two came back yesterday morning, 5 days late, about an hour apart. It makes me think they trapped in another loft and were taken on a training toss but who knows. I am going to sit out this week. With the 100+ temps and really bad smoke from a fire 40 miles away the air quality sucks and the birds are off. 

I did two tosses this week. One short, 10 miles the other 40 miles. The birds came fine. There are a few that don't want to loft fly longer the five minutes. 

With the bad results last week I put some plywood under the perches to check droppings. They look good, a few were off. I treated them for three days with a 4 in 1 from medpet, Droppings firmed up and look right. The birds look really good just don't want to fly much. 

They have had a day with probiotics and now two with just water. I am going to treat with respiratory Saturday through Monday and see how they look. 

I hope those racing have success this weekend. 

Sierra Ranch Classic was going to ship the 2nd race but postponed because of our heat wave.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

I am glad I had the birds sit out this week. Just looking on Benzing Live site, only 7 of the 26 flyers in the combine use the system but the returns from those seven and the others I have talked to are pretty rough. 

From Benzing Live:

42 out of 91 home in the A race
14 out of 60 home in the B race

Praying they get more home in the morning.


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## Mader631 (Sep 7, 2008)

Sounds like fun!


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

*One loft birds*

2nd race in Sierra Ranch Classic was yesterday. We dropped two of the five we are down to 1 bird that race, AUB 826. 

They dropped 94 birds in the 1st race and 147 in yesterdays. Hopefully a few of those 147 will show up today. 

Gold Country Challenge has the birds out 30 miles or so. We have dropped one of the six in that race, AUB 893.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

*Club Race this weekend*

The birds are looking great, a few are in a pretty heavy head molt. They were in the later hatches.

The race is from Winnemucca about 234ish miles to my loft. I will go through them and decide which birds to send. 

I wish everyone racing tomorrow good luck.


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## Happy (Dec 19, 2004)

Gosh, Flap, must have been a bad race Sat. form Winn. Ca.. No see anything. Was hoping you would be right up there... Hope your just Busy... YF, Happy


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

Happy said:


> Gosh, Flap, must have been a bad race Sat. form Winn. Ca.. No see anything. Was hoping you would be right up there... Hope your just Busy... YF, Happy


I was not able to go to shipping or knock off. I ended up having a very busy weekend. A buddy ended up shipping the birds for me and brought my clock to knockoff. I have not been able to get the clock or the results yet. I know from Benzing Live we are at least 30 minutes behind the first bird. 

I believe 100% return, unfortunately I did not get the birds enough flying time. They sat out last Saturday and were a little heavy. Only two tosses since the tough race two weeks ago. I will be training the next three days up the road. For this weekends race. 

1st bird to the loft in the A race was 806 out of Hill Family
1st bird to the loft in the B race was 811 out of jwbriggs

This is the 2nd time for both birds being first back to the loft.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

Flapdoodle said:


> 2nd race in Sierra Ranch Classic was yesterday. We dropped two of the five we are down to 1 bird that race, AUB 826.
> 
> They dropped 94 birds in the 1st race and 147 in yesterdays. Hopefully a few of those 147 will show up today.
> 
> Gold Country Challenge has the birds out 30 miles or so. We have dropped one of the six in that race, AUB 893.


AUB 830 was picked up at a gas station in Ashland OR. The bird was shipped in a race 4 days ago. Found a flyer up there to pick it up for me. I have not heard back yet on the condition of the bird yet.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

Shipped 12 birds in the A race. Carlin NV, 298 miles for me. Benzing Live is not showing any birds clocked. My current speed is 1209 yrd/min. Clear skies but really hot here today.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

It is turning out to be a tough day. Just got a call from the race secretary to pushing knock off to tomorrow or Monday. 

I don't have any birds yet. So far only two birds clocked on benzing live. 2 out of 84, 1/4 of the flyers are using the system. 

I am at 976 yrd/min...


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

I only have 1 bird back out of 12. There are 18 day birds of the 84 sent from flyers using Benzing live. That is the A Race. B Race released half hour later has 4 of 59 birds. I sent all 12 in the A race. 

Hopefully in the cool of the morning I get the others.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

I can't say why but I keep hearing this same thing over and over about poor returns . I sent 21 birds yesterday and got 2 on the day . It is a new station almost 300 miles for us and I'm sure my birds were not trained out as good as some but still ??? All of mine have been raced twice at 100 miles and most of them twice at 170 miles with 2 weeks rest before this week. I hope you get a few more back. Up here where I live if they don't come on the second day we rarely get them home at all.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

Will post more tonight, not at home but with Benzing Live I am getting updates on my phone. 803,807,805 have trapped in.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

The only day bird was 814, Those that arrived today... 803, 807, 805, 804, 813, 817, 811, 802, 806. 10 out of 12, hopefully will see the other two tomorrow AM. 

I updated the spreadsheet. I was pretty far down on the sheet. First bird to the loft was 28th in the club. I will get the results scanned and uploaded tomorrow.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

*Racing from Valmy NV 250 miles*

Cooler weather but some wind. Not as bad as last week but a tough day. I have one bird so far 802, one of the Happy birds, 1124 yrd/min. From the 50 birds shipped by flyers using Benzing Live she is number 6. 

I only sent five birds all in the first race. Those held back were in a really bad head/neck molt, some missing the ninth and tenth flights. 

I have another busy weekend, I might have to pull the clock early to get it to a buddy so he can get it to knock off. 

To those racing this weekend I hope you have good returns.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

802 was 13th in the club, 817 was 26th only 49 club birds sent, It has been a tough season. 

When I got home this evening 811 and 807 were in the loft. 808 was the other bird I shipped. Hopefully she will show up in the AM. 

One race to go...


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

Late Sunday afternoon 808 did show up. I brought the birds on training toss today. Saturday is the last club race. It will be from Elko NV 300 miles. I am not sure which birds will go to the race but will make that determination Friday evening.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

*One Loft Birds*

Sierra Ranch Classic 0 birds left out of the five I sent. I am not alone. Losses have been crazy dropping 100+ each race. That is not typical for this race. Historically its been known for great returns. 

Gold Country Challenge had the qualifier yesterday. Out of six birds I had sent, two were lost in training, one did not make it back yesterday. The three birds still in the race are 831 a Happy bird, 833 out of the Hill Family birds and 834 from FT33. First race will be 10/12-10/15 depending on the weather.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

*Last race postponed*

The race from Elko 300 miles was going to ship tonight, tomorrow has some 20 mile an hour winds with gusts along the route home. They moved shipping back at least a day, maybe two. 

I am thinking about hanging it up. It has been a real tough year. It has not gone as well as I would of liked. I need to change several things with the loft and my management of the birds. 

I really appreciate those of you that gave me this opportunity with your breeders. I really want to give it another crack next year. No new birds just the ones I have here on the ground. I am not going to be able to fly old birds and would use the young birds paired back into the breeders I started with. The breeders are looking good, some still in a heavy molt but the majority are starting to slick out really nice. 

Next year I have a 15-old daughter that really wants to race at the club level but not with me against me. The club will allow it. She has gone on a few local loft tours and we are going to build her a small loft. She would get the first round and I would get the second. I do plan on a 3rd round for the 4H project. The other plus is she is really internet savvy and enjoys making videos. I can get her to commit to at least one video a month of her progress. If there is interest in having her post info in the forum she will. I am sure I can get her to do a weekly update if anyone was interested. 

If you would rather get your birds back I understand. Just shoot me a PM.

If I do decide to ship a few to the 2nd 300 I will let you know. I will also update the progress of the three in the Gold Country Challenge. I will also kind of score the breeders and post some notes and pictures of the top birds (once we can post pictures).


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Would love for you to keep and breed from the birds. Let me know if you need some young birds or selective breeders for next year.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

I will try and get you some pedigrees when I fix my hawkeye. Seems like the birds out of 781 and 789 did the best for you. 

781 was out of:
LL 2011 1263
-Cock 1311 Maverick my futurity winner
-Hen LL 353 Houben Hen off Ace birds
LL 2011 1274
-LL 329 off Tiger and Big bertha
-Au 7797 Houben 

789 was out of:
LL 2011 1279
-Cock AU 54892 off tiger and big bertha
-Hen AU LL 928 Second on drop from 279 miles 264 birds off Ikon cock 
LL 2011 1289
-Cock son of Red Rose Motown Missile 
-Hen Miller 678 off Son of Ned and Snake charmer who was race winner


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

I really love my flying loft. It is made out of panels that are bolted together the roof is two pieces that can be broke down. It is 7 x 14 with two aviaries and a door in the middle. I think their are pics in PT somewhere if you do a search on me. I would make it not a wide so I can reach across. I have two drop traps using the aviaries as landing boards. Like it much better than the red rose lofts I have seen. I do not like the aviaries that second as the landing board. I would do a 2x4 slated floor with spaces for droppings to fall through if I did it again. Other than that perfect flying loft that can break down and fit in a Uhaul.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f38/new-young-bird-loft-34557-5.html

I would consider as a design for your daughters loft my young bird loft. You can find it imbedded in this post. It is 7x14 with two drop traps and aviaries that open. I built it in panels that are bolted together with a two piece roof. 
If I did it again I would only make it 6 feet deep to catch birds easier and also put a 2x4 slatted floor with space between vertical boards for dropping to fall through. This with the perches I have would make it self cleaning. I can send you more pics if you need them. I think their are more pics in the loft section somewhere.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

hillfamilyloft said:


> ...... Seems like the birds out of 781 and 789 did the best for you............


For some reason I do not have the band numbers on the spread sheet but I think the best bird came out of pair #12 with pairs #10 and #13 breeding the two birds tied for second. 

I don't know if I mentioned it but unfortunately the cock from pair 10 #781 died while the second round was in the nest. Not sure what was up. The babies and hen were fine. 

I found some best bird spread sheet online that spit out this graph ranking the team: 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_Xp0Jk-p0iTLU55ZHVhY09FWGc/view?usp=sharing 

It dings a bird if it was late, It also could favor a bird that did well in a few races then was lost. 

I also added the ranking to the breeder sheet on the left hand side. I included top three finishes against loft mates. 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qF2RYTTXZoR3Tp7K88mrRndetfjjzSS-lyoNU5oUEzc/edit?usp=sharing


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

hillfamilyloft said:


> http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f38/new-young-bird-loft-34557-5.html
> 
> I would consider as a design for your daughters loft my young bird loft. You can find it imbedded in this post. It is 7x14 with two drop traps and aviaries that open. I built it in panels that are bolted together with a two piece roof.
> If I did it again I would only make it 6 feet deep to catch birds easier and also put a 2x4 slatted floor with space between vertical boards for dropping to fall through. This with the perches I have would make it self cleaning. I can send you more pics if you need them. I think their are more pics in the loft section somewhere.


Grace is toying with a few ideas. I will show this to her, thanks for posting. One of the requirements from my boss is that that it does not look like a pigeon coop. Still trying to figure out how to make that work. She drives by my loft everyday and thinks it is an eyesore. She is all for Grace and I building a loft but she wants it "cute".


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

*Elko 318 miles race... I shipped them last night*

I was not going to but decided to race them. I went through the birds and held back some that were missing the tenth or a couple of the late returns from last week. I will write more later...

Trapping order so far:
813
803
817
814
811
807


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

Flapdoodle said:


> I was not going to but decided to race them. I went through the birds and held back some that were missing the tenth or a couple of the late returns from last week. I will write more later...
> 
> Trapping order so far:
> 813
> ...


804 must of come home when it was getting pretty dark, I just came back in from locking up and he was on the roof of the loft. 

802 and 806 are the last two, hopefully they show in the AM. I am kind of kicking myself for sending them, 802 was first back in last weeks 250 and 806 is the best bird on the team.


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

*Got the last two back...*

806 came in around 10:00, 802 came in at 12:10 this afternoon.


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## luckyloft (Oct 21, 2006)

Flap, you may keep the 2 pair I sent you.Thanks for giving them a try.If you decide you don't want them I will take them back.Thanks again Jeff


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Well 820 didn't make you rich, but he did make you enough to take the family out to dinner. I did not think they were going to show up for you in the one-lofters. Couple of more places up and he could have made you some feed money. 15th on the 3rd drop is respectable. It might make you a good breeder. The bird is off some good stock and that pair has bred me good birds.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

http://www.wincompanion.com/oneloft/clockings/raceReport.php?rid=5009&skin=goldcc

Todays Gold Country Challenge


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## Flapdoodle (Nov 8, 2009)

*I was going to let this thread die*

Congratulations... 15th in 330 mile race and in the money!  820 was lost before the qualifier. I got a call from an animal rescue that they had the bird. I called Matt from the race and he went out and picked it up. This was all the week of the qualifier. They sat it out and worked it back into the rotation. I did not activate the bird with the others. It made it on a couple of short tosses before the first race. They sent photos and said it looked good, so I activated it. 

I will pick up 820 and 833 next week. I already have 830 that was in the sierra ranch classic. She was found in Ashland OR after the 2nd or 3rd race. She along with 100 other birds did not make it back to the loft from that race. It took a little work finding someone to pick it up from a gas station. She came walking right into the garage and they caught her. I found a flyer near there that picked her up and took care of her for a few weeks then shipped her to me. 

Starting to work out pairings for next year. I could have five or maybe six pairs out of your birds. I might split pair #11, They are both a little older. I will mostly likely put them with 2015 banded birds out of pair #10 or #12. If 820 is a cock maybe pair him back to his mom.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

It won't hurt my feelings if you think them not worthy of the breeding loft. They need a bit more consistency. With a few years work you could get some good birds out of the family. My birds overall did pretty good this year. After 10 years I am getting a family that is showing high on the sheets. If you breed from the best of them they should produce for you. I may have a pedigree from a sibling of 820 I can send you. My program crapped out, but I may find bits and pieces of pedigrees so we can piece things together. Both birds in pair 11 are siblings of race winners and the pair has produced top 10 birds. Crossing them back in should pay dividends.


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