# Some lunatic started kicking the pigeons I was feeding...



## TitanicWreck (Jun 12, 2003)

I was feeding a large feral flock and some deranged nut advanced on the birds and started kicking at them-Luckily they all flew away and none were harmed- Then this 40ish man lectured me on how irresponsible he thinks I am for feeding pigeons- Of course his act of attempted animal abuse seemed perfectly okay with him...Im now at the point I have to feed the birds when few people are around...Little children often liike to run into a group of pigeons, terrorizing the birds- and of course they are encouarged by their parents...Then there are solo losers like the pigeon kicker, who seem to get his thrills out of hurting defenseless creatures..
Ever deal with people trying the harass the pigeons while you try to feed them?  

I am happy though that there are pigeon supporters in my neighborhood- Every night like clockwork there is a large quantity seed and bread spread out under the nearby bridge, so the pigeons that roost there never go hungry...


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> Ever deal with people trying the harass the pigeons while you try to feed them?


Too often. This is why so many of us "go underground" and feed when there aren't many people around. I have also noticed that many of the daytine pigeon feeders through down some food and then make a run for it before anyone can challenge them.

Isn't it ridiculous that we are made to feel like criminals?

Cynthia


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I had a similar experience last time I was in Boston. MIddle school students that looked to be on a field trip, in Quincy Square, were throwing food for the pigeons them kicking them when they tried to eat it.
I got right in their face and told them to knock it off. I told their teachers that they needed to supervise more closely. I was polite but very firm. Neither students nor teachers responded but acted stunned that they had been confonted.


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## Ramiro (Oct 8, 2007)

My point of view on feeding pigeons stems from being a pigeon "outsider" (someone who doesn't raise domestic pigeons and knows next to nothing about them) and a newfound pigeon insider (someone who keeps pigeons).I'm very new to the pigeon hobby and I really like pigeons but am against feeding feral pigeons. I just feel that there are way too many, if people stopped feeding them we would still have some around to look at, but not nearly as many. They are tough, adaptable creatures and would find other ways to get food. Then again, some people love all pigeons and want to feed them all. I guess I see both sides of the issue. 

I am in no way defending the guy who kicked at the birds and people who confront others simply for feeding the pigeons.


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## TitanicWreck (Jun 12, 2003)

cyro51 said:


> Too often. This is why so many of us "go underground" and feed when there aren't many people around. I have also noticed that many of the daytine pigeon feeders through down some food and then make a run for it before anyone can challenge them.
> 
> Isn't it ridiculous that we are made to feel like criminals?
> 
> Cynthia





I know what you mean...sometimes I discretley leave a trail of seed behind me as I walk-so i won't be harassed by the pigeon haters, but the pidgies will still get their food..


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## TitanicWreck (Jun 12, 2003)

Ramiro said:


> I just feel that there are way too many, if people stopped feeding them we would still have some around to look at, but not nearly as many. \.



Pigeons are more tha just things to look at. They are living beings that feel and think, and have the right to exist. I have to disagree with you-we have the means to feed the pigeons-There is no reason they should be left to starve...
I think thats what the mayor in London is trying to do to the Trafalgar Square pigeons-starve them to death.....


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## Matt D. (May 12, 2007)

I also dont support feeding pigeons, for there own saftey. If we dont feed them they will go back to the woods and to be safe again. If they are not in the cities then they are out of harms way and away from the loons in the cities. I personally trap wild birds and transplant them in the wild. I am also not trying to defend this person in any way just looking for a way to eliminate this sort of run-in from happening.


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## TitanicWreck (Jun 12, 2003)

Matt D. said:


> I also dont support feeding pigeons, for there own saftey. If we dont feed them they will go back to the woods and to be safe again. If they are not in the cities then they are out of harms way and away from the loons in the cities. I personally trap wild birds and transplant them in the wild. I am also not trying to defend this person in any way just looking for a way to eliminate this sort of run-in from happening.



The problem is pigeons are not native to North America-so sending them back to the woods would be as artificial as keeping them in the cities. They are here to stay. We can either help them survive, or turn our backs on them and let them starve....
I prefer to feed them...


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## Guest (Dec 18, 2007)

I for one have never seen a single pigeon in the woods and let me tell you I've been in the woods for over 30 years now...So your woods theory is kinda not with the reality of today ,the fact is that citys are the native habitat for the pigeons of today , the closest thing to woods for pigeons is open farm land and they only come for the grub before returning to their places under bridges and in nitches among buildings ..if feeding wild birds is ok why not pigeons too...just my two cents


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## TitanicWreck (Jun 12, 2003)

LokotaLoft said:


> I for one have never seen a single pigeon in the woods and let me tell you I've been in the woods for over 30 years now




You're right...I noticed this whenever I visit my mother's place, in a heavily wooded area in western MA- there are plenty of mouring doves-but no pigeons...


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Remember Matt, there is a reason their ancestors were called Rock Doves! When we brought them over here from Europe, the cities and bridges near the sea that they could find were the closest they could get to the actual rocky cliffs (most of them being near the sea or some type of water) of Europe. Now they have nowhere BUT the cities to go. I agree and disagree with the feeding of pigeons in the cities. I can't make up my mind. It is cruel to let them starve, but more feeding equals more pigeons to feed...so no matter what, there will be a pigeon out there starving anyways, unless the population is lowered to were they can hold up nicely on their own. On the other hand, the large populations of pigeons keeps down the rats. If you ask a city dweller which they'd rather have, they'd probably say pigeons. Or so I hope anyways...not trying to discriminate against rats...but they have been known to spread some ugly diseases and plagues...so obviously they _are _more dangerous. Another thing is...people should not be so mean to pigeons. They should feed them because...well...it IS our fault they are here in the first place. We took them from their homes, and they escaped into the cities...so...the least we can do is feed them. It isn't their fault! I'm torn here though....they would be much more happier and healthier if they didn't have to compete for food, and could just live in little flocks like the wild ones did. But what would happen to the excess ones? We can't let them starve...
Either way, people should just get over themselves. It doesn't matter how much you shoot, poison, or give birth control to....I doubt we will ever end this "problem" that most people seem to think pigeons are. There will always be pigeons in the city, that's just how it is. So...why not feed them? If you can't beat them, feed them!  Haha.


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## TitanicWreck (Jun 12, 2003)

I just wish I understood why some individuals feel compelled to harass or threaten those who choose to feed the ferals...I've been cursed at, and even threatened with violence-simply because I fed the pigeons- But i respect the choice of those who choose not to feed them.

Take the case of the Trafalgar Square Pigeons-Their numbers were enormous- so the mayor called for measures to ban feeding, thus dwindling their populations. The negative flipside there is pigeons died of starvation...
I applaud those Londoners who defied the mayors wishes, and choose to feed the pigeons.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I think the reason people hate them so much is because we have made such a big deal of their existance. Like for example, the pest exterminators figured they could make loads on pigeons because they appear to be messy, and their big numbers made their droppings more noticable. No one liked it when one "relieved itself" on their chair or car....or...shirt...but no one really paid them much attention until ways to get rid of them came along. People making up false things like "Pigeons spread over 49 diseases to us, our pets, and our children! They are like rats with wings and are dangerous to our health". Someone got fed up and used the poison...and people caught on....Now the feral pigeon's whole reputation is based on pretty much nothing but evil lies and myths, and people don't know any better than to believe them anymore...

One day...there may be another war in which our own intelligence fails again...and the pigeons will come to the rescue...and then...and then what will the pigeon haters say? >:[
People consider Starlings a nuisance but people don't go around trying to kick them all the time! And they don't go around saying "KILL THEM. STARVE THEM. AHHHHGGGGGGHHH." D:
It isn't fair....is it?

Personally, I would love to go to London or New York City...just for one day if I could. And why do I want to go there? To feed the pigeons and let them cover me up to my head like I see in all these pictures in the cities. I think it would be pretty fun to go visit the city pigeons


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

Never seen a pigeon in the woods. . .they are originally cliff dwellers and we took most of their original homes away from them by building all of our lovely skyscrapers.  Technically we are responsible for them because of this, as I see it. If we don't feed them, they starve. This wouldn't necessarily result in less pigeons, as they breed so prolifically, but definitely would result in many more agonizing deaths amongst them. We've made their bed, and as they're forced to lie in it, the least we can do is make it easier. . .JMO.

I believe that people out in the public should simply mind their own business. If they don't like to feed pigeons, for instance, or disagree with someone feeding them, they should walk away and keep their opinions to themselves. I've shared this thought (usually nicely, followed by pigeon education to those who seem open to it) with many, many people over the years. As for children who are kicking at them, the younger ones usually respond to my "nanny" voice, and if not, their parents can be spoken too (and are often just embarrassed about their misbehaving children more than anything else, so make them stop).


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

It seems strange to me that we are urged to feed the garden birds over winter to help them survive, but are criticised for feeding the feral pigeons on the grounds that "there are too many of them" and that "there is plenty of natural food around". 

In the UK there are about 200,000 breeding pairs of feral pigeons...this compares to 1,200,000 starling territorries (and starlings are on the red list because of the alarming drop of numbers); 4,935,000 pairs of blackbirds; 7,600, 000 wrens and 15,000,000 bluetits wintering in the UK.... 

As for there being "plenty of natural food around", I have no idea how that conclusion is reached. Feral pigeons are the descendants of rock doves and domestic pigeons. They were brought into the cities to serve as messengers and food in times of seige. For centuries their "natural" diet has been whatever man provides for them. Now that man sees no immediate use for them in the cities they want them destroyed, just as they wanted the passenger pigeon destroyed.

Cynthia


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## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

I know that trapping and relocating sounds like a very humane solution. But consider that when one does that, the bird that is trapped may have a mate, nest and babies that now are impacted. Either the mate will have to raise the young alone, or the babies might starve or die of exposure while the single parent is looking for food.

Margaret


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## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

cyro51 said:


> They were brought into the cities to serve as messengers and food in times of seige. For centuries their "natural" diet has been whatever man provides for them. Now that man sees no immediate use for them in the cities they want them destroyed, just as they wanted the passenger pigeon destroyed.
> 
> Cynthia


Nobody wanted the passenger pigeon destroyed. They just didn't believe it was happening until too late. The passenger was hunted for food, hunted to extinction. By the time people realized it was endangered, it was too late to save the passenger. The demise of the Passenger is the main reason why people stopped eating squab, for the most part, in the United States. Once the squab was off the menu, it was no longer viewed as useful by a large part of the U.S. population. The death of the Passenger served as a tool in Congress to save many endangered species by setting aside protected land. That cost money. I believe that is when some people began blaming the pigeon for costing them logging rights, fishing rights, hunting and dumping rights. From there it built to a hatred that will not abate until the Rock Dove, at first a victim of man's love, becomes a victim of man's hate. What if one day the Rock Dove dips into the red in terms of population, and conservation groups go crazy to protect them?
If that were to happen, one of the greatest, most sanitary 'garbage men' of the city would be gone and replaced by giant, diseased rats. I cry for that future to be averted. Feral cats would explode in population along with the rats, causing native species to be eaten and filling our yards with useless cat poop that you can't compost with. Rats would chew through our plants, trees, and houses spreading plague. Sparrows, Grackles, and Starlings would be even more populous.
We made the Rock Dove what it is today. This is our fault, but at first humans brought the rock dove with them out of love. Pigeons. Perhaps man's first best friend. When our cities are bleak and empty of natural life, I hope the pigeon will always be there to keep us company.

Why pigeons are better than dogs:
They have never eaten their owner.


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## TitanicWreck (Jun 12, 2003)

Margarret said:


> I know that trapping and relocating sounds like a very humane solution. But consider that when one does that, the bird that is trapped may have a mate, nest and babies that now are impacted. Either the mate will have to raise the young alone, or the babies might starve or die of exposure while the single parent is looking for food.
> 
> Margaret





Plus won't a relocated pigeon simply fly home? You might drive out to the woods and release a pigeon-but by the time you get home, the pigeon you released willl be back, waiting for you...


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

The passenger pigeon was considered a menace to crops and cheap food...they fed them to the hogs.

Our beautiful, gentle wood pigeon is perceived the same way now. Shot by farmers wood pigeons are sold for £10 a sack. 

Cynthia


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

TitanicWreck said:


> Ever deal with people trying the harass the pigeons while you try to feed them?


I would tell him, Would you like me to do that to you? 

Abuse is abuse, don't let anyone intimidate you, it's one thing to feed them under cover of darkness IF it is illegal, but the abuse needs to be addressed-if you can do so.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

maryjane said:


> Never seen a pigeon in the woods. . .they are originally cliff dwellers and we took most of their original homes away from them by building all of our lovely skyscrapers.  Technically we are responsible for them because of this, as I see it. If we don't feed them, they starve. This wouldn't necessarily result in less pigeons, as they breed so prolifically, but definitely would result in many more agonizing deaths amongst them. We've made their bed, and as they're forced to lie in it, the least we can do is make it easier. . .JMO.


Agreed. 'The woods' is not the natural home of the Rock Dove, wild or feral. 

European settlers introduced semi-domesticated pigeons to N America, and the Romans and Normans introduced the idea of keeping pigeons in human settlements in Britain. Fine until pigeon keeping outlived its usefulness and the pigeons were abandoned to do their own thing.

Feral pigeons are a product of human interference with nature and are our 'inheritance'. Some people will protect an inheritance, others will squander it - or in the case of pigeons, seek to destroy it one way or another.

John


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## Guest (Dec 19, 2007)

it is sad how people treat gods creatures these days , makes you wonder what would happen if you went and started kicking people at chinese buffet and accusing them of being an abomination of nature lol though I would rather see that then people kicking something so innocentant and uncapable of protecting itself ... long live the rock dove , be it in a loft or on the streets .. there is nothing more awesome then seeing a pigeon riding the wind ...


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

LokotaLoft said:


> .. there is nothing more awesome then seeing a pigeon riding the wind ...


I agree totally 
If people were to take the time to watch a flock fly, they would probably find a new respect for them. They are beautiful when they fly, especially in the early morning and afternoons when the sun shines on their backs


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## ryannon (Jul 4, 2007)

To echo what's been said above, city ferals should never be 'transplanted' into a forest environment: there's absolutely nothing there for them to eat.

I have seen flocks living in proximity to farms, but they had turned into carnivores and would collectively carry off a cow when they got hungry.


/feeble attempt at humor after massive edit: believe me, it could have been much worse


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## Guest (Dec 19, 2007)

I too have noticed oddities within the farm ferals but it wasnt with carnivouring birds, it was the crossbreeding within the dairy herds and flocks as they graized together resulting in pigeons that moo and cows that coo  hehehe... sorry I think my atempt was worse then yours haha


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> it's one thing to feed them under cover of darkness IF it is illegal, but the abuse needs to be addressed-if you can do so.


Except for Trafalgar square there are few places in the UK where feeding the pigeons is illegal, but those of us that feed them are vulnerable. It can take only two complaints from members of the public for an Anti Social Behaviour Order (ASBO) to be made against a pigeon feeder. This would order the pigeon feeder not to feed the pigeons within a certain location for a number of years. Breaking the order can lead to imprisonment. This is why I prefer not to be identified as a regular pigeon feeder.

However, if a member of the public tries to injure a pigeon and is identified, then it is a matter for the police. I once reported a man for setting his dog on the pigeons that I was feeding. It wasn't a case of the dog being boisterous and scattering the birds: he had trained his dog to stalk, catch and kill feral pigeons. The police assured me that he was commiting an offence and that if I could identify him they would take action. I also reported a man who objected to my feeding the pigeons for telling me that he was going to shoot the pigeons and put their corpses in my garden. The police wanted to give him a harassment warning but I felt that this might rebound and make him more likely to harm the pigeons.

Cynthia


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## ryannon (Jul 4, 2007)

cyro51 said:


> Except for Trafalgar square there are few places in the UK where feeding the pigeons is illegal, but those of us that feed them are vulnerable. It can take only two complaints from members of the public for an Anti Social Behaviour Order (ASBO) to be made against a pigeon feeder. This would order the pigeon feeder not to feed the pigeons within a certain location for a number of years. Breaking the order can lead to imprisonment. This is why I prefer not to be identified as a regular pigeon feeder.
> 
> /Etc...
> 
> Cynthia



There are moments when I positively long for the existence of roving bands of _pigeon-loving_ but highly sadistic thugs - sort of like the lovable guys in _The Clockwork Orange_, who would set upon the bullies and other ASBO-obsessionals (Has the UK been buying up surplus imbecilic slogans from the ex-Soviet Union?) who harrass those who devote such energy and courage to aid and abet our friends the pijes. 

I know that more violence is never a solution to violence itself, but sometimes nothing is more eloquent and satisfying than a swift and well-merited kick in the pants. Or the teeth, for that matter.


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