# New Birds From SFL



## g-pigeon (Aug 24, 2010)

*New Birds From smith family loft*

just recieved a pair of birds 

they are awesome 

thanks warren


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## g-pigeon (Aug 24, 2010)

*picture*

uploaded a photo


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

You are very lucky! And even from the small pic, the birds still look great


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## g-pigeon (Aug 24, 2010)

they are great looking birds and are very easy to handle

they were out of the box 2 minutes and immediately started pecking at food and walking around like they own the place


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## fresnobirdman (Dec 27, 2008)

how much did you pay for them?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

nice!!!!!!!!


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

I was on YOUTUBE last night,and came accross a SFL video of his birds....Just love those RED`s he had in the clip....They were the ones from imports that he breeds from...The one named "NoBander" looked pretty awsome also !!!......Alamo


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I BET they are awesome, you have a couple of celebrities there, may they bring you lots of winners!


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## g-pigeon (Aug 24, 2010)

More Pictures


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## g-pigeon (Aug 24, 2010)

More Picture


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## A_Smith (Aug 8, 2006)

Good luck with your new birds. Hope they breed you alot of winners. I have SFL blood in my loft also and they do well for me.


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

Oh man how am I gonna ever win another race on Long Island now that we have SFL birds here.


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## g-pigeon (Aug 24, 2010)

They started mating already

Hope to have some eggs real soon
Perfect timing for 2011 bands
Very excited
These birds really came to me in excellent shape
I know why sml does so well


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## g-pigeon (Aug 24, 2010)

*new pics*

some more pics


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Pigeon0446 said:


> Oh man how am I gonna ever win another race on Long Island now that we have SFL birds here.


 It's all over now....all you can do now is talk about the good ole days before those SFL birds came to town and runied it for everybody !  Or, you can do what a lot of folks have done, and simply pick up and move to sunny Florida where most clubs have banned SFL USA birds from their combines. Get caught with a SFL USA banded bird in your loft down there (except for the Flamingo) and you will be banned from racing for life. It is considered "cheating".


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## Melsloft (Apr 27, 2007)

*birds*

thats funny I have heard guys having roasts with SFL birds  GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> It's all over now....all you can do now is talk about the good ole days before those SFL birds came to town and runied it for everybody !  Or, you can do what a lot of folks have done, and simply pick up and move to sunny Florida where most clubs have banned SFL USA birds from their combines. Get caught with a SFL USA banded bird in your loft down there (except for the Flamingo) and you will be banned from racing for life. It is considered "cheating".


Warren if your head gets any bigger it will start looking like your belly. I do agree that he is starting with good stock. But come on, banded from Florida? You know we want to see some of those SFL birds in the PT race. You can always send them there. The are welcome like all the other rif raf in Cali. Ha Ha. Nice looking birds. Warren they look a little plump like you.


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## g-pigeon (Aug 24, 2010)

Hey one thing to mess with warren
but messing with my birds 
thats getting personal


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

My rif raf Cali birds would love to compete with those sfl birds.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

g-pigeon said:


> Hey one thing to mess with warren
> but messing with my birds
> thats getting personal


Just having fun with Warren. They are great looking birds. They should do you well. I also have a bit of SFL blood from gift birds. They do well for me. They look like my birds, plumped up for winter. Breeding with thin them down. Keep us posted on how they do for you. Are they Ludo blood or his President stuff?


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> My rif raf Cali birds would love to compete with those sfl birds.


I was talking about the people, Ha Ha, not the birds.


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## g-pigeon (Aug 24, 2010)

i know kidding


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## Feathered Dragons (Oct 15, 2010)

*F D L*

You guys better watch out FEATHERED DRAGONS LOFT is going to bringin' on the heat now with those Barless.


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

hillfamilyloft said:


> I was talking about the people, Ha Ha, not the birds.


We're all rif rafs in our own ways. It's just there's a bigger concentration of the worst ones here in cali!


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> We're all rif rafs in our own ways. It's just there's a bigger concentration of the worst ones here in cali!


See we agree 100% on something !! The worst Rif Raft comes from California ! .... but at least some have sense enough to move out.


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> See we agree 100% on something !! The worst Rif Raft comes from California ! .... but at least some have sense enough to move out.


They won't let us move out anymore. They need the taxes to make payroll.


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## g-pigeon (Aug 24, 2010)

this is there pedigree
i think these are great foundation birds for my loft
i also have some young birds from dennis kuhn that are still to young to breed.
can't wait for eggs

2007 AU 120 SFL USA BBW/F COCK Nest mate to 2007 Flamingo International Challenge 1st Place Winner. 
2008 AU 245 SFL USA BB Hen Full sister to 2010 cash winner at Winners Cup, half sister to cock above


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> See we agree 100% on something !! The worst Rif Raft comes from California ! .... but at least some have sense enough to move out.


I've lived in other parts of the country but there's nothing like living in southern california in my opinion. It's raining like crazy right now but it's clear and sunny skies most of the year. Don't knock it until you try it....

The only downside is that it cost an arm and a leg to live out here but i still think the good outweigh the bad....


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## g-pigeon (Aug 24, 2010)

new york and long island is no picnic
taxes are crazy out here


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

g-pigeon said:


> new york and long island is no picnic
> taxes are crazy out here


Yeah, I can only imagine the costs out there!


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> I've lived in other parts of the country but there's nothing like living in southern california in my opinion. It's raining like crazy right now but it's clear and sunny skies most of the year. Don't knock it until you try it....
> 
> The only downside is that it cost an arm and a leg to live out here but i still think the good outweigh the bad....


The weather is nice. But, the state is bankrupt and the taxes, as in New York are crazy. The cost of living is a major factor to livablity, not just the sunny skies. Will have to see what happens after the state defaults on it's bonds, and can't afford to pay the police, firemen or teachers.


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

Living in NY is possible if you leave in the unwanted north, central or western areas. I bought a 3K sqft house on .75 acres in a walkable village that is only 30 minutes from a city for 80K. We suffered no housing bubble and unemployment in the area is only about 6% (which is what it has been for the last 10 years). 

But yes, if I lived in a different state I would be able to afford Sex Appeal.


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> The weather is nice. But, the state is bankrupt and the taxes, as in New York are crazy. The cost of living is a major factor to livablity, not just the sunny skies. Will have to see what happens after the state defaults on it's bonds, and can't afford to pay the police, firemen or teachers.


We haven't been able to pay those hardworking people anything for past 10 years! That really hasn't changed much at all except for that fact that they had more cut backs! It's really sad but I'm thankful I have a job that allows me to live in this ridiculous financial crisis that the state is in...and let's not get into the housing crisis... 

Still can't beat the weather though.....


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> The weather is nice. But, the state is bankrupt and the taxes, as in New York are crazy. The cost of living is a major factor to livablity, not just the sunny skies. Will have to see what happens after the state defaults on it's bonds, and can't afford to pay the police, firemen or teachers.


Amen to that Warren. A state of anarchy is a serious possibility in our state, God forbid!


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

hillfamilyloft said:


> *Warren if your head gets any bigger it will start looking like your belly.* I do agree that he is starting with good stock. But come on, banded from Florida? You know we want to see some of those SFL birds in the PT race. You can always send them there. The are welcome like all the other rif raf in Cali. Ha Ha. Nice looking birds. *Warren they look a little plump like you*.


Now Hill Family ! 


First of all, Congradulations to the new owner ! 

You know my life is already pretty much of an open book, often to my own detriment I must add. It is well known among my closest friends and family, that I have a very high opinion of myself. You have to have a very high level of confidence in yourself and abilities, if you hope to achieve the impossible. Try as hard as we may, we will never in our lifetime breed the perfect racing pigeon, but I want to own as many near perfect pigeons as I can find and acquire or breed. 

The offspring from this pairing would be 100% Smith's. The crossing of several significant European Performance Family Lines with American bred preformance ace/one loft/auction /combine race winners over a number of generations. 

The sire of this year's 2010 Annual PT Classic Winner, is also brother to :
*2007 AU 120 SFL USA BBW/F COCK* :Who is Nest mate to 2007 Flamingo International Challenge 1st Place Winner. See: http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f14/smith-family-lofts-does-it-again-24029.html?highlight=duke+earl

Oh....and the "Warren they look a little plump like you." I do confess, it has been very cold around these here parts, and I have been trying to build them up for a very successful winning breeding season with Purina GOLD ! 

What you are looking at though is not a "fat" pigeon, but a buoyant, well balanced and muscled pigeon. You are looking at an identical twin of the 2007 Flamingo Winner, which dragged two other birds with him to a 1st Place 350 mile win, 40 MINUTES ahead of the next birds clocked.

From a foundation breeding program point of view, I am suggesting that he pairs these two very special birds together for a season or two and hopefully produce a nice race winner or two. Since this is a half brother/sister pairing, my thinking is it would then be idea for a cross into another race winner in the loft. The orginal pairing could then be split up and the cock could be paired to other good hens, and the hen to a proven cock bird. 

He's also going to need to learn 10,000 other things......because what your typical merchant won't tell you, is the pigeon is only one part of the story. There is a whole lot more between getting a pair of pigeons, even the greatest in the World, and getting 1st Place on race day. I hope he does well with these pigeons, as I have a vested interest in him doing well. One of the things I look for in picking a winner, is the degree of motivation. I don't know if the local racing authorities will now try to re-write their club by laws to keep him outside their club boudaries or not, so I suggested that he maintain a low profile about importing SFL USA banded birds, but this guy is obviously serious, and I wouldn't be surprised one bit if he won some races out of turn, and made me even more famous.

And ya never know, I may need to acquire some pigeons from him some day to improve my lines, life can be funny like that.


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## g-pigeon (Aug 24, 2010)

interesting thing is am built the same way as the bird.

there is no question that i do have a lot to learn. but i have been reading everything i can find on racing and this sight has a wealth of info.

i do hope to make you a little more famous warren


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Well Warren I must say my birds are a little plump also. Funny I moved all my hens to a new loft yesterday so I could do some repair work on a few sections of my breeding loft. One hen stood out above all the rest as the fattest of the bunch. Back a ways in the pedigree is a bit of SFL blood. You know how everybody says you start looking like your dog? Wonder if that applies to pigeons?
Secondly: How is your Ludo line crossing into your Duke/President birds? Or are you keeping them separate as far as bloodlines go.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

hillfamilyloft said:


> Well Warren I must say my birds are a little plump also. Funny I moved all my hens to a new loft yesterday so I could do some repair work on a few sections of my breeding loft. One hen stood out above all the rest as the fattest of the bunch. *Back a ways in the pedigree is a bit of SFL blood.* You know how everybody says you start looking like your dog? Wonder if that applies to pigeons?
> Secondly: How is your Ludo line crossing into your Duke/President birds? Or are you keeping them separate as far as bloodlines go.


Remember this quote below from this link ?

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f14/smith-family-lofts-does-it-again-24029.html#post242917



SmithFamilyLoft said:


> I really do appreciate the kind words, but the truth of the matter is the congratulations should go to Blue 181, the only small part of brilliance that I played was introducing "Duke" and "First Lady" and they did the rest.............
> 
> Every year since the 2003 season my "Duke of Earl" has produced Club and Combine diploma winners regardless of his mate, and when the opportunity came along to acquire the "First Lady" whose offspring has now produced in excess of $15,000 in cash winnings, well side by side, they just seemed like a match made in heaven. And now, with the Flamingo 350 race, it appears that it also was a successful match. But for 2008 "Duke" is being paired to the "Blue Falcon" since a previous pairing together produced a super brother/sister pairing which have turned out an American Ace and countless diploma winners and cash money winners, as well as my most consistent pair this year in the Flamingo.]
> 
> ...


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

The bird is just a cross I have on loan. The pedigree looks like it just has President stuff. Not any of your Ludo or Duke of Earl stuff. Probably not enough blood to win with. Our club is having an auction race you may want to send some young birds to. See how they do against the ABQ club. 9 race series 300-400 birds a race, two 300s and a 400. 25 bird limit around 20 fanciers.


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## g-pigeon (Aug 24, 2010)

The birds have been breeding.
i am anxiously awaiting eggs.
but how does the saying go about a watched pot never boils


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

hillfamilyloft said:


> The bird is just a cross I have on loan. The pedigree looks like it just has President stuff. Not any of your Ludo or Duke of Earl stuff. Probably not enough blood to win with. Our club is having an auction race you may want to send some young birds to. See how they do against the ABQ club. 9 race series 300-400 birds a race, two 300s and a 400. 25 bird limit around 20 fanciers.


Are you going to purchase the birds and then race them ? The problem I run into with some of these auction deals, is that some folks figured out, it is a cheap way to acquire a SFL USA banded bird, and the bird may never see the outside of a loft again. I am out the bird, I am out the shipping and postage, and may not even have a chance of winning anything because the bird has become someone's breeder. Just seems a bit more easy to simply pay $300 and have the bird fly in the 2011 Winners Cup.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Are you going to purchase the birds and then race them ? The problem I run into with some of these auction deals, is that some folks figured out, it is a cheap way to acquire a SFL USA banded bird, and the bird may never see the outside of a loft again. I am out the bird, I am out the shipping and postage, and may not even have a chance of winning anything because the bird has become someone's breeder. Just seems a bit more easy to simply pay $300 and have the bird fly in the 2011 Winners Cup.


Good point. I will get the skinny on the auction. They have a meeting the 9th. Last time I was talking about your birds with a few club members they did not know who you were. So maybe they would fly them not knowing the quality of the birds. If you get the birds back that might be the ticket. I finally have an arrangement where I can pull birds off the race team for the breeding loft. I will look into it.


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## GEMcC5150 (Oct 24, 2010)

Come on Warren you may have good birds but CHEATING? That going a long way.


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## g-pigeon (Aug 24, 2010)

hi
the birds have been breeding since about 3 days after I received them .they made a nest and are sitting on it as if they had eggs.but the hen has not laid yet.also the hen seems to have gotten a bit thinner.does this mean eggs should be coming soon.
I am a bit worried that the hen is thinner now.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

g-pigeon said:


> hi
> the birds have been breeding since about 3 days after I received them .they made a nest and are sitting on it as if they had eggs.but the hen has not laid yet.also the hen seems to have gotten a bit thinner.does this mean eggs should be coming soon.
> I am a bit worried that the hen is thinner now.


Let us know what color those SFL eggs are. We have heard stories.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

GEMcC5150 said:


> Come on Warren you may have good birds but CHEATING? That going a long way.


 I agree with you 100% ! That's what I have been saying...it is crazy to say that if a guy imports birds from be it a GFL or a SFL type, that they should be banned from their club. I would never of course support such a thing !


But, seriously.....I don't really think anyone really has....there would be no way to enforce it. People would simply cut the bands off if they had to. 
I attribute it all to simple trash talk !


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## g-pigeon (Aug 24, 2010)

hi warren
question for you
the birds have been breeding and have made a nest but still no eggs.
i have the lights on them 24 hours.

they are eating and seem just fine. 

should i be worried.

i am pretty sure i am just to anxious 

thanks george

ps the eggs should be gold in color right


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

g-pigeon said:


> hi warren
> question for you
> the birds have been breeding and have made a nest but still no eggs.
> i have the lights on them 24 hours.
> ...



In typical pigeon fashion....the male should be chasing the hen...the term for this is "Driving The Hen", is this taking place ? It may be early in the cycle yet, I forget how many weeks you actually have had the birds under lights. 

My personal preference, would be to give them only around 15 hours of light a day, around the same amount they would have during the longest days in June. I would set the timer around 3 AM in the morning, and then let them experience a natural sun set. I remember something about you having the birds in a garage, so I don't know what kind of natural light they may be exposed to. The reason for having the lights go on early in the morning, instead of staying on until sometime at night, is I don't want the hen to say go get a drink of water....and then have the timer turn the light off on her. 

If they were set to start breeding, then within 7-10 days of being paired, the hen should lay her first egg. Keep in mind, when you picked up your birds, they were on the normal winter light, or should I say lack of light. They have been separated from their mates since May 2010, but several weeks of lights are normally required to get the hormones up to the correct amount needed to start this whole breeding process.

Again personal preference, but I also like to provide them bath water on days it would be above 32 degrees, and I also like to provide them fresh greens such as Kale. Typically, with regular seed diets, you want to also insure that they have fresh grits in front of them at all times, as well as a pick pot. This is particularly important for the hen, as she needs to produce the shell for those eggs. 

If you want a good book title to get your hands on : "Feed To Win" by Andre Christiaens 

As far as the color of the eggs, they should be white. If by some chance, they do come out gold, then by all means possible, get them back to me as fast as possible, as that would indicate a mistake on my part, and I will replace them with a more suitable breeding pair !


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## g-pigeon (Aug 24, 2010)

Guess what.
I came home from work went to the loft to feed the birds.the male was sitting on a egg.

Thanks for the help warren.
I keep the birds in a shed that's 20x10
It is split half for the birds and the rest for storage


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## calmcool410 (Mar 17, 2010)

*really ,,,they banned ur birds from races????*



SmithFamilyLoft said:


> It's all over now....all you can do now is talk about the good ole days before those SFL birds came to town and runied it for everybody !  Or, you can do what a lot of folks have done, and simply pick up and move to sunny Florida where most clubs have banned SFL USA birds from their combines. Get caught with a SFL USA banded bird in your loft down there (except for the Flamingo) and you will be banned from racing for life. It is considered "cheating".


They really banned ur birds from races?


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## g-pigeon (Aug 24, 2010)

No he is kidding


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

calmcool410 said:


> They really banned ur birds from races?


Only where they wear the gold necklass!


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

bbcdon said:


> Only where they wear the gold necklass!


 Now you are being bad ! Funny...but bad !!


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

calmcool410 said:


> They really banned ur birds from races?


 I would like to stick that tongue of mine even further into my cheek and keep the joke going, but no, I was only kidding. Such jokes have gotten me in trouble before, because some guys get their nose bent out of shape if it appears you might in some way, shape, or form, are OMG !! "Bragging"...

So, no....last I checked, it was still OK to use SFL USA banded birds. But, keep in mind, that some folks ain't gonna like you...if you have my birds...because they don't like me ! It is a curse that my younger brother, and my friends have had to deal with since I was a little kid.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

g-pigeon said:


> Guess what.
> I came home from work went to the loft to feed the birds.the male was sitting on a egg.
> 
> Thanks for the help warren.
> ...


*Congradulations !!! *

I don't know about you or anyone else, but it was 1965 when I experienced my first pigeon laying an egg, and I can remeber it like it was yesterday !! I was just a little kid, but I was very excited and happy !! No one ever guessed the life long adventure it would take me on.


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## Matt Bell (May 5, 2010)

May of 2000 for me, thats the first time I witnessed one of my pigeons lay. Funny, I was all worried like this fellow and now I can tell when the bird will lay just by looking at them, also can tell when something is really wrong like a bird being egg bound. It all comes with experience. Cherish each new moment, learn from them all and you will go far!


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## g-pigeon (Aug 24, 2010)

I was born in 65 warren

it's true
the first times a charm
i thought she looked like she was going to lay and every afternoon i was looking for eggs. she was sitting on the nest defending it but no eggs.
so then i started to worry but i know this sport has a lot to do with patience.
not my strongest attribute

going to my first meeting at the racing club this weekend on sunday.

any other books you would recommend warren
there is a part 2 to feed to win. which one would you recomend the first or second one

thanks george


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## g-pigeon (Aug 24, 2010)

they are sitting on 2 eggs now.
i am feeding them purina pellets green and apple cider vinegar in there water a few times a week.
hopefully in 17 days i should have some baby sml birds around.
eggs were white not gold


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## g-pigeon (Aug 24, 2010)

eggs are due to hatch saturday or sunday

hope all goes as planned


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

g-pigeon said:


> I was born in 65 warren
> 
> it's true
> the first times a charm
> ...


Sorry George, missed the question. I suspect the latest edition would have updates to it. I have not set them down side by side to compare.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

g-pigeon said:


> eggs are due to hatch saturday or sunday
> 
> hope all goes as planned


Good luck !

Here is a short video of what my breeders are looking like, have not paired them yet. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vz8fxkVtmM&feature=player_embedded


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## g-pigeon (Aug 24, 2010)

*nice looking birds*

hope they do well for you


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## SouthTown Racers (Jan 14, 2009)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Good luck !
> 
> Here is a short video of what my breeders are looking like, have not paired them yet.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vz8fxkVtmM&feature=player_embedded


Warren , what is that hanging off of that cock birds head?


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

SouthTown Racers said:


> Warren , what is that hanging off of that cock birds head?


 The bird has some sort of a growth, which resembles a turmor, which has not affected his reproduction. I would have removed the bird from the loft, except for the fact that the cock has produced numerous race winners. He is a grandson to Late Rode 430, a key foundation sire for Ludo.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> The bird has some sort of a growth, which resembles a turmor, which has not affected his reproduction. I would have removed the bird from the loft, except for the fact that the cock has produced numerous race winners. He is a grandson to Late Rode 430, a key foundation sire for Ludo.


Cannt it be removed Even by a vet.. Is it on its neck or the eye sere.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

re lee said:


> Cannt it be removed Even by a vet.. Is it on its neck or the eye sere.


 It is on the side of the bird's head. I have not taken the bird to a Vet for an evaluation. The bird has had this condition for year's and so far, it has not been a problem for the bird. So, until it really becomes a problem, I have just chosen to live with it.


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> It is on the side of the bird's head. I have not taken the bird to a Vet for an evaluation. The bird has had this condition for year's and so far, it has not been a problem for the bird. So, until it really becomes a problem, I have just chosen to live with it.


This must be IF 03 York 919?


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## West (Mar 29, 2009)

Beautiful birds Warren. I think I remember you saying those Willem Mielekamp birds are down from Meulemans. The recessive red is a big giveaway also. What's the story on them?


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

ace in the hole said:


> This must be IF 03 York 919?




How is it you know that !?!? 

You are correct. 

Sire is Duke of Earl : nephew to "Orlando" and other great Champions of Piet Verbree & Co.

Dam is "Late Rode's" : daughter of Late Rode 430, base breeder for Ludo Claessen

First year breeding he produced some diploma and cash winners. Then, like some of his brothers, he was sold. And then again, like some of his brothers, I managed to get him back.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

West said:


> Beautiful birds Warren. I think I remember you saying those Willem Mielekamp birds are down from Meulemans. The recessive red is a big giveaway also. What's the story on them?


Hey, I missed this post. 

Just had an opportunity to link up with another fancier in Holland who was interested in particpating in my breeding program here at SFL USA. I wanted an opportunity to fly yet another closely bred line along side my family and see what kind of performance differences there may be. I also wanted to try a few different crosses to see what the results might be. Like so many families I have handled, there are some things I like, and some things I don't. The perfect pigeon at this point, only exists as a vision inside my head, I am hoping these pigeons can contribute something towards making that vision a reality. In order to do so, I obtained two hens and a cock from Willem Mielekamp of Holland. Someone who found out that I had imported some pigeons down from the Meuleman family, wanted to see what they looked like. I made the video and then I thought what the heck, I will share it on FB and then decided to share it here as well.

I want to produce this family of "perfect" pigeons, and performance is the main consideration, but I also favor some of the darker shades of color. I thought this color would be an interesting addition to my lofts, as I do have to look at them for 365 days out of the year.


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## cbx1013 (Aug 12, 2009)

G-Pigeon:

Nice loking birds... good luck with them!

Warren:

Same to you- nice looking birds!

cbx


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

West said:


> Beautiful birds Warren. I think I remember you saying those Willem Mielekamp birds are down from Meulemans. The recessive red is a big giveaway also. What's the story on them?


OK....

And here is the other part of the story...Ludo used a pigeon from Meuleman stock, which had a significant impact on future generations. Here are just a couple of examples, but the bird B95-6558347 Oud Blauw Slates had a significant impact on the Ludo racing and breeding legacy.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

I may have seen such growth like that before, but I forgot what it is called. Some speculated it to be the result of feeding too much high protein. How is that growth feel like? Looking at it initially I thought it is one of those things where air goes under the skin and inflating it like ruptured air-sac, but I am guessing as always. If that is not that then I would assume it to be a benign tumor.


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## g-pigeon (Aug 24, 2010)

First egg hatched today
Hoping the other one will hatch tomorrow


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> How is it you know that !?!?
> 
> You are correct.
> 
> ...


When Ken had this bird he had told me that it had developed a growth. One of the breeders that Randy Hill has of mine is a daughter of 919.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

I forgot I had that bird out there. I am putting my breeders together tomorrow. She is a large silver hen. She is the biggest hen in my loft. I was milling over who to put ther with next year. I have a smaller cock bird that is a Vic Miller x Van Reet who lost his mate last year I think I will put her with. He bred 08s high points old bird. She has done pretty good. I have had her the last two years here. She only raised one baby last year that was lost early. I stopped breeding before her second round. The year before she raised 6 babies. Three hit in the top 10%. Thought you all might be interested. 

35th 125miles 365birds
36th 125miles 365birds
4th 150miles 364birds

Looking for the right mate for her. I will keep you posted and post the band numbers here so you can follow her babies. 3/7 is a pretty good breeding ratio but I think it could be better with the right mate.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

York 03 705 is her Dam. 
Don't know about all those color birds that Warren is breeding lately. This and the two red birds of Mark's that are on loan are my only non-blue birds. Warren she is solid, are those ludo birds that you have on the larger side of medium? I think I have only had one hen bigger than her. That was Big Bertha. My Engels bird Tiger is also on the smaller side. I might let her choose between the two mates. Either would be stronger than her last years mate. He has sense found a new home.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> How is it you know that !?!?
> 
> You are correct.
> 
> ...


Warren does "Orlando" have a Ganus AKA?


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## PigeonVilla (Dec 8, 2010)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> The bird has some sort of a growth, which resembles a turmor, which has not affected his reproduction. I would have removed the bird from the loft, except for the fact that the cock has produced numerous race winners. He is a grandson to Late Rode 430, a key foundation sire for Ludo.


Warren you could probably ligate that growth with a small rubberband or thread and let it dry up and drop off ,something easily done with a second pair of hands .


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

hillfamilyloft said:


> Warren does "Orlando" have a Ganus AKA?


Answered my Question. It is "Super Champion". Wonder if he re-named his wife when he married her. He may not even give her parents the credit for raising her. Warren you about have me convinced to start putting "Hill Family" on the strain section of my pedigree. Verbree's greatest bird of all times is now all of a sudden a "Ganus" strain. 
Analogous to Hugh Hefner getting together the best looking Women in the world and renaming them Miss. January, Miss February, Miss March ....... Wonder why everyone keep throwing him money. When now a days it is almost as easy to go to the source for the birds. Wholesaling then retailing the American Way.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

hillfamilyloft said:


> Warren does "Orlando" have a Ganus AKA?


Sorry missed this post. Mike changes the names...in part I suspect for marketing, and also to maybe discourgae someone from going directly to the orginal breeder for the birds, instead of buying directly from him. Mike changed the name of Orlando to* "Super Champion". * see: ( http://ganusfamilyloft.com/superchampion2.htm ) I suspect that Super Champion turned out to be a better racer then breeder, and that his siter turned out to be the better breeder. My bird Duke of Earl was off his full sister.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

hillfamilyloft said:


> Answered my Question. It is "Super Champion". Wonder if he re-named his wife when he married her. He may not even give her parents the credit for raising her. Warren you about have me convinced to start putting "Hill Family" on the strain section of my pedigree. Verbree's greatest bird of all times is now all of a sudden a "Ganus" strain.
> Analogous to Hugh Hefner getting together the best looking Women in the world and renaming them Miss. January, Miss February, Miss March ....... Wonder why everyone keep throwing him money. When now a days it is almost as easy to go to the source for the birds. Wholesaling then retailing the American Way.


Gee I reponded in previous post before I saw this one !  I suspect that PiPa has changed the pigeon merchant business in USA. Once upon a time, you fly to Europe and spread some money around...back then $5000 would have been BIG money, bring the bird back to the sates, and sell the offspring for $1000 or $1500. Now, for what you can spend for an unproven YB with a fancy pedigree, you can buy race winners directly from Europe's fanciers, by way of PiPa.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

hillfamilyloft said:


> I forgot I had that bird out there. I am putting my breeders together tomorrow. She is a large silver hen. She is the biggest hen in my loft. I was milling over who to put ther with next year. I have a smaller cock bird that is a Vic Miller x Van Reet who lost his mate last year I think I will put her with. He bred 08s high points old bird. She has done pretty good. I have had her the last two years here. She only raised one baby last year that was lost early. I stopped breeding before her second round. The year before she raised 6 babies. Three hit in the top 10%. Thought you all might be interested.
> 
> 35th 125miles 365birds
> 36th 125miles 365birds
> ...


Looks like she is pairing up to my Flor Engels Bird Tiger. He is small and shaped like a barrel. Breeds some good birds. Should be an interesting pairing. I will post the band numbers for you to follow. Good complement to her, she is a big hen. I think she is bigger than he is.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Maybe if Warren chickens out this year we can send these to the PT race. At least it will be half SFL. Might even get a Silver one also. Might win the beauty contest.


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## g-pigeon (Aug 24, 2010)

the sfl chicks are now 11 days old. they have been banded. so far they look good.

can't believe how fast they grow.
parents do not sit on them as much now. 

looking forward to racing this year.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

hillfamilyloft said:


> Answered my Question. It is "Super Champion". Wonder if he re-named his wife when he married her. He may not even give her parents the credit for raising her. *Warren you about have me convinced to start putting "Hill Family" on the strain section of my pedigree. *Verbree's greatest bird of all times is now all of a sudden a "Ganus" strain.
> Analogous to Hugh Hefner getting together the best looking Women in the world and renaming them Miss. January, Miss February, Miss March ....... Wonder why everyone keep throwing him money. When now a days it is almost as easy to go to the source for the birds. Wholesaling then retailing the American Way.


Well, in my humble opinion, it would be intellectually more honest. I suspect that the reason why some people will use the name of some breeder who may have died decades ago, is because they lack self confidence in their own abilities and they don't want to stand behind their own accomplishments, or lack thereof. 

Of course, when you do this, please understand that many folks will resent you, and claim you have a "Big Head".


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## A_Smith (Aug 8, 2006)

hillfamilyloft said:


> Maybe if Warren chickens out this year we can send these to the PT race. At least it will be half SFL. Might even get a Silver one also. Might win the beauty contest.


Vanilla Ice (the winner last year) has a baby in the bowl. She is mated to one of Warren's cocks too. When she relays one of those babies will be going to the PT race to defend the title in 2011.  VI is a light silver and the cock is a red check. So ya know the bird will be beautiful.  BUT of course I'll need to let my wife decide if the ones I will be sending will be pretty enuff.


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## West (Mar 29, 2009)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> OK....
> 
> And here is the other part of the story...Ludo used a pigeon from Meuleman stock, which had a significant impact on future generations. Here are just a couple of examples, but the bird B95-6558347 Oud Blauw Slates had a significant impact on the Ludo racing and breeding legacy.


I'm way late seeing and responding to this. This is really neat to see. The Meuleman birds have been a small and sometimes large impact on many racing lofts both past and present. If you want to go back slightly further the Van Den Bosche pigeons are also the basis of the HVR family, along with others.

I hope they do great. I'll definitely pester you in the future to see how they race for you.


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