# indigo archangel update



## chinbunny (Mar 1, 2010)

Here is the baby. Is the tail bar normal for indigo?





Here is the mom. She is andalusion, correct?


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## Henk69 (Feb 25, 2010)

No, andalusians are spread and spread masks archangel.
Blue wing archangels often look andalusianish like that, and also can have some bronze on the wings.


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## chinbunny (Mar 1, 2010)

Henk69 said:


> No, andalusians are spread and spread masks archangel.
> Blue wing archangels often look andalusianish like that, and also can have some bronze on the wings.


What variety of blue is she then. When I asked about this bird on here a year ago, first I was told indigo. Then mary of exter said she was andalusion. The father of this bird is andalusion.


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## chinbunny (Mar 1, 2010)

chinbunny said:


> What variety of blue is she then. When I asked about this bird on here a year ago, first I was told indigo. Then mary of exter said she was andalusion. The father of this bird is andalusion.


& She also looks nothing like the blue color my blue-t's have.


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## Henk69 (Feb 25, 2010)

She/mom could carry indigo. But spread would be difficult.


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## chinbunny (Mar 1, 2010)

Henk69 said:


> She/mom could carry indigo. But spread would be difficult.


Really doesn't answer my question.  What variety of blue is she. the archangel standard for the us says there are andalusion archangels.


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## The Pigeon Girl (Jul 3, 2010)

What a beauty!


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## Henk69 (Feb 25, 2010)

Well mine that look similar are barless.


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## chinbunny (Mar 1, 2010)

Henk69 said:


> Well mine that look similar are barless.


could you post a picture of one?


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## Henk69 (Feb 25, 2010)

chinbunny said:


> could you post a picture of one?


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## chinbunny (Mar 1, 2010)

Nice looking birds. I wish you lived in the us. i would love to have that yellowish colored one in my barn. What color is it? Is it indigo? Yes my hen looks like the one in the back.


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## Henk69 (Feb 25, 2010)

Unknown. Some bluewings have this extensive bronze expression in their wingshields.


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## horseart4u (Jun 16, 2011)

they are all beautiful birds, i wish i can find some these colors


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## chinbunny (Mar 1, 2010)

horseart4u said:


> they are all beautiful birds, i wish i can find some these colors


I showed a pic of the hen to a the secretary of the archangel pigeon club. she thinks another breed may have been crossed in somewhere. She thinks she is just a plain blue wing. im going to ask her more questions about color though. 

She told me she has opals. I didn't know archangels came in opal. it sounds pretty.


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

Henk69 said:


> No, andalusians are spread and spread masks archangel.
> Blue wing archangels often look andalusianish like that, and also can have some bronze on the wings.


Hi Henk,










I agree that this bird is probably not 'andalusian' in the traditional sense, but might it be homozygous T-pattern (extreme) dirty inidigo archangel bronze? Since the archangels carry a dirty gene that is by far the strongest I have ever seen, couldn't ****-indigo birds have shields and tails almost that dark? Maybe it is possible that bronze shows through spread indigo better than it does on spread alone. I wish I had more resources to test these hypotheses!

Look at the light tail... Don't blue-wing gimpels (blue barless dirty archangel bronze) still have blue/black tails and dark flights? Where is the tail bar in the bird above?

As an aside, I have a F1 hybrid archangel x black barb which show a considerable amount of bronze in the neck (and a little in the head). Proving it is possible for archangel bronze to express 'through' spread as it were (these birds are often called firebirds in literature). There seem to be some people who even believe that with selective breeding archangels on spread would not only be possible but might even be better (not that I personally agree with that particular opinion).


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## chinbunny (Mar 1, 2010)

Hi Rudolph! yes she has no tail bar. She's is dark, but not her color is not as dark as the one's my blue t's have on the tail and flights. my barless blue ts still have dark tails and flights. she never had any bronze on her when she was a baby either.

Should see see how her baby has developed. he's half way through molting. definitely dirty, indigo, and definitely a check. He's pretty and I think he might be useful to breed to the ts birds I have who lack bronze.


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