# Pigeon/Dove died - Overheated or Infection



## Jana (Jul 9, 2009)

A dear friend of mine recently found a baby pigeon (maybe it's a Mourning Dove, but I am no expert and it's hard to tell at that age) abandoned by its parents. She found him when he was about 16 days old and that's about 14 days ago. He died today.

She did take him to the vet when she found him. He was gaining weight and putting on feathers just fine. Was helicoptering and started flying at around 21-23 days.

She fed him special baby bird food with a syringe according to the vet's instructions. She really cared lovingly and regularly for the bird. Took him along everywhere in a cleaned out cat carrier cage.

So today she left the bird in a car for 40 minutes in Austin, Texas. I suppose the temperature in the car was in the 90s for at least half of that time. The bird had been fed and given water just an hour or so earlier.

She gave him water immediately when she came back to the car.

About thirty minutes later she found that he was spitting a little blood and there was blood in his feces, too. Another 30-60 minutes later the poor thing was dead.

She is naturally very upset and thinks she killed him. From the little I read, these birds (especially mourning doves) can withstand dehydration fairly well and should be used to high temps. I am also not sure if dehydration/overheating would cause the blood spits and blood in feces. I suppose it was an infection the bird already had before.

What do you think?

Was it more likely an infection or the overheating that killed the bird.

Thanks so much for help from the experts. I really appreciate it!

Till


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I can't tell you what killed the bird but it doesn't sound like an infection.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I'm having a hard time understanding why anyone would leave any living thing they cared about in a hot car for forty minutes. People get arrested for doing that with their kids.


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## Jana (Jul 9, 2009)

Thanks for the answer, Charis. Why do you think it might not be an infection or disease of some kind. I read about a number of them that have blood in feces as a symptom. But I didn't see that connected to dehydration.

I think it would console her a bit if it wasn't due to her neglect or failure that the bird died. She is quite devastated about it.

Thanks for your input,

Till


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## Jana (Jul 9, 2009)

Jay3 said:


> I'm having a hard time understanding why anyone would leave any living thing they cared about in a hot car for forty minutes. People get arrested for doing that with their kids.


Yes, you are quite right (except that there are still differences between kids and birds). The story is that she thought it would be much shorter and then she got side-tracked. While this is in general not good, I agree on that, I still wonder whether the heat exposure was what killed it and I hope it wasn't. It would make it easier to live with. To her defense, when she picked him up she was sure that the parents were not around because he had been in the same spot for three days and there was a torrential down pour that would have flooded him away where he was sitting.

As I said, it seems pigeons/doves can withstand dehydration and heat quite well. They are out in the heat here in Texas when it is hotter than 100 and they seem to do alright.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

A bird left in a hot car, is not the same as a bird out in the hot weather. This is an interesting article. Maybe your friend needs to read it. It won't make her feel any better, but can you honestly imagine how that poor bird felt, and what he went through?


http://www.birdchannel.com/bird-diet-and-health/bird-care/bird-heat-stroke.aspx


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Bird Heat Stroke Dangers
Can you recognize if a bird has heat stroke?
By Rebecca Sweat

umbrella cockatoo, heat stroke
< td>Birds can experience heat stress if exposed to hot temperatures.

When birds suffer heat stroke, it’s almost always a result of the owners leaving their birds in a car on a hot day while they’re out running errands, according to avian veterinarian Gregory Harrison, DVM.

“They may be taking their bird to the veterinary clinic for an examination or for grooming and then decide to run another errand while they’re out,” Dr. Harrison said. “When they make their stop, they roll up the windows because they don’t want anyone breaking into their car and stealing their parrot. Then they run into the store or the bank or wherever they’re going, thinking it’ll just be a couple minutes, but then they forget how long they’re gone. Fifteen minutes later they come back to their car and their bird is dead or in critical condition.”

Dr. Harrison practices in southern Florida, and has never seen a bird with heat stroke from simply being outdoors in the sun. “Usually outdoor birds have exposure to a breeze, or at least they can fly to get some air movement and cool themselves down,” he said. “But when birds are contained within an environment like a car, the air is stagnant, they can’t fly around, and there’s nothing they can do to cool off.” Birds have no sweat glands and therefore cannot dissipate heat by perspiring, he added.

In the early stage of heat stroke, a bird will hold its wings out from its body and pant. It may appear anxious or agitated, or have a blank stare on its face. As the condition worsens, the panting will become very heavy, and the bird will rock back and forth on the perch and have a hard time keeping its balance. Eventually the bird will fall off the perch and begin to convulse. “If the bird is allowed to convulse, the convulsion will continue to drive the temperature up — even if the bird is brought out of the sun — because the body is working so hard during the convulsion,” Dr. Harrison said.

If the temperature is not brought down quickly, the bird will die or sustain permanent brain damage. 

But while heat stroke (which is an actual clotting of blood vessels to the brain) is very serious, most veterinarians do not see a lot of it in their avian patients. Usually when pet birds have had too much exposure to heat or the sun, they simply suffer from heat stress, according to Dr. Harrison. A heat-stressed bird will hold out its wings and pant, but it does not go unconscious or have convulsions like it would if it was having a heat stroke.

Heat stress is still not good for pet birds, Dr. Harrison said, because like any type of chronic stress, “heat stress causes a release of chemicals in the body that can bring on bacterial or yeast infections or metabolic diseases in birds that aren’t perfectly healthy.” This means that a bird that is not on a good diet or is overweight, if exposed to excessively hot temperatures, could very well become sick, he said.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Jana said:


> Thanks for the answer, Charis. Why do you think it might not be an infection or disease of some kind. I read about a number of them that have blood in feces as a symptom. But I didn't see that connected to dehydration.
> 
> I think it would console her a bit if it wasn't due to her neglect or failure that the bird died. She is quite devastated about it.
> 
> ...


There wouldn't have been blood just then and then death. There would have been more clues before hand.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Great article Jay.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Jana said:


> Yes, you are quite right (except that there are still differences between kids and birds). The story is that she thought it would be much shorter and then she got side-tracked. While this is in general not good, I agree on that, I still wonder whether the heat exposure was what killed it and I hope it wasn't. It would make it easier to live with. To her defense, when she picked him up she was sure that the parents were not around because he had been in the same spot for three days and there was a torrential down pour that would have flooded him away where he was sitting.
> 
> As I said, it seems pigeons/doves can withstand dehydration and heat quite well. They are out in the heat here in Texas when it is hotter than 100 and they seem to do alright.


There are differences between kids and birds...there are also similarities...neither should be left in a hot car. In my state, your friend could have been arrested for felony animal abuse for leaving the bird in the car. In the wild, animals do deal with the heat. There is a big difference between being outside and having the temperature gradually raise and being shut up in a hot car and having the temperature rapidly rise.
Sometimes, it can be growth producing to admit we've made a mistake and emotionally work through it.


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

I'm very sorry this happened to your friend and the dove. Unfortunately it can be lethal to leave an animal in a car regardless of the temp outside:

_Dogs can suffer and die when left inside parked cars, even on mildly warm days. On a 78-degree day, the temperature inside a shaded car is 90 degrees, while the inside of a car parked in the sun can reach 160 degrees in minutes. Animals can succumb to heatstroke in just 15 minutes._

I don't know if this would cause the bleeding or not; I've never heard of it. I know it can cause brain damage in just minutes being in a hot car for dogs, so it's just best not to take any animals anywhere that we can't take inside with us. In the future your friend knows not to repeat this, and she shouldn't beat herself up as it is done and she will probably never know exactly why the dove died. 

All of us make mistakes that in retrospect, we see or think could have been avoided, even the most experienced animal caretakers make mistakes. It is very hard to lose an animal and especially when we blame ourselves but it happens. Again, very sorry about the dove, it sounds like she was doing a great job and her heart was in the right place.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Jana said:


> Yes, you are quite right (except that there are still differences between kids and birds). The story is that she thought it would be much shorter and then she got side-tracked. While this is in general not good, I agree on that, I still wonder whether the heat exposure was what killed it and I hope it wasn't. It would make it easier to live with. To her defense, when she picked him up she was sure that the parents were not around because he had been in the same spot for three days and there was a torrential down pour that would have flooded him away where he was sitting.
> 
> As I said, it seems pigeons/doves can withstand dehydration and heat quite well. They are out in the heat here in Texas when it is hotter than 100 and they seem to do alright.


You are quite right, in that there are differences between kids and birds. But the sad thing is that they both depend on us to take care of them and keep them safe. To do what is in their best interest. She didn't do that. When it is hot out like that, I never take my dogs along with me to do errands. I wouldn't leave them in a hot car like that for 5 minutes. They can't sweat. Their blood boils, they convulse and die. I saw a dog go through this, left in the hot car in a parking lot of a clinic, while the mother brought her child in for an appointment. Thank God, he was seen just in the nick of time, and was grabbed from the car, and put into a sink of cold water to bring down the temperature. He was nearly dead. I'll never forget that day. It was awful. The woman said that she didn't think she'd be gone so long. I asked her exactly what I would like to ask your friend. "WOULD YOU HAVE LEFT YOUR CHILD IN THAT CAR, IN THAT HEAT, FOR THAT LONG?" Now you can say that a child and an animal are different. I say that a life is a life, and suffering is suffering. And if you caused it, than you caused it. Making her feel better isn't what's important here. Her acknowledging what happened, and learning from it is what's important. What that bird suffered is far more important than someones not wanting to feel guilty. Sadly, we sometimes have to learn the hard way. And sadly, sometimes others suffer because of our neglect. Hopefully we deal with it and learn from it.


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## Jana (Jul 9, 2009)

I told you guys, she's devastated. She's really beating herself up about it. The lesson is learned, you bet. When I told her that, she got upset even more because I was rubbing it in, so to say.

So she is sad about the loss; I am too, by the way. And she learned the lesson the hard way. The bird is dead and that is very unfortunate. What I'd like to think of now is to bring some closure and consolation to a human friend, which can come through knowing what happened. I am sure you know what I mean. She is about the most animal loving person you can imagine. So right now she is hugely upset with herself for doing this.

The lesson is learned in any case. But it would still help to know whether there was something else behind it.

Simple heat stroke and blood in feces and vomit just don't add up. I don't know whether there were any other symptoms. The bird seemed to do great just two days ago. He was eating, pooping and flying properly. No agitation and no weakness I could detect as a lay-man.

Till


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If the lesson is learned, then why are you trying to excuse it by finding something else to blame on his death? He wouldn't die suddenly with no other symptoms. It just seems that you're trying very hard to prove that the heat didn't cause the death. It happens all the time. Why is it so hard to believe? We hear it on the news all summer. We all know about the dangers of hot cars. Birds, like dogs have no sweat glands. They can't cool off that easily. It's a very sad thing when this happens, but so avoidable. Sometimes we just do things that we are sorry for and have to take responsibility for and deal with it. I really believe this is one of those times. Sorry.


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## Jana (Jul 9, 2009)

Jay3 said:


> If the lesson is learned, then why are you trying to excuse it by finding something else to blame on his death? He wouldn't die suddenly with no other symptoms. It just seems that you're trying very hard to prove that the heat didn't cause the death. It happens all the time. Why is it so hard to believe? We hear it on the news all summer. We all know about the dangers of hot cars. Birds, like dogs have no sweat glands. They can't cool off that easily. It's a very sad thing when this happens, but so avoidable. Sometimes we just do things that we are sorry for and have to take responsibility for and deal with it. I really believe this is one of those times. Sorry.


Not trying to excuse it. Trying to find closure and consolation through knowing what happened. In my eyes, life is too short to beat yourself up for something that you might not even have done or that couldn't have been prevented anyways. It's likely that the heat had something to do with it but there is reasonable doubt that there were other things involved or that even the heat (failure to shelter the animal) did have anything to do with it.

So, I think we are all clear on the ethical side. Now, it would be nice to get some pathological input.

Till


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> What I'd like to think of now is to bring some closure and consolation to a human friend, which can come through knowing what happened


This is from an SPCA site:

*Watch out for the following symptoms of overheating in pets: excessive panting or difficulty breathing, drooling, mild weakness, stupor and even collapse. Pets can also suffer from seizures, bloody diarrhea and vomiting, along with an elevated body temperature of over 104 degrees.*


It is extremely sad and she must be devastated, but what consolation can be offered? Leaving an animal in a hot car has been compared to placing an animal in an oven. Leaving a window slightly open and water for them to drink is not enough to save them.


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## Columba livia! (May 4, 2009)

sorry about your bird!


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Jana said:


> I told you guys, she's devastated. She's really beating herself up about it. The lesson is learned, you bet. When I told her that, she got upset even more because I was rubbing it in, so to say.
> 
> So she is sad about the loss; I am too, by the way. And she learned the lesson the hard way. The bird is dead and that is very unfortunate. What I'd like to think of now is to bring some closure and consolation to a human friend, which can come through knowing what happened. I am sure you know what I mean. She is about the most animal loving person you can imagine. So right now she is hugely upset with herself for doing this.
> 
> ...


The bird died because it was left in a hot car, who knows if it would of died of something else...I might get hit by a bus tomorrow...you will never know because it is gone now.......she should feel bad, something would be wrong if she did not....sorry she did'nt know any better.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

We all make mistakes that can be fatal to the animals in our care. It has happened to me. 

All we can do is learn from our own experience and hope that others learn too, without having to experience their own tragedy. This is why it is helpful when these sad incidents are posted.

I don't think anyone who has read this thread will leave a bird unattended in a car for a minute.

Cynthia


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Jana said:


> Not trying to excuse it. In my eyes, life is too short to beat yourself up for something that you might not even have done or that couldn't have been prevented anyways.
> Till


First of all, it WAS done. And secondly, it certainly COULD have been prevented. I think you know that. For some reason, it seems important to you to find something else responsible for the birds dying. Well, if he were sick, and if he would have died anyway, which I doubt, he certainly didn't have to suffer and die in that horrible way. Baking in a hot car. So, no matter what else you may try to find that could have possibly been wrong with the poor little thing, you can't change the fact of how horribly he suffered and died. There was absolutely no excuse for that. How do you take away from the suffering, by finding something else that might have eventually taken his life? If there were something else, can you actually believe that that would make his suffering any less? Don't think there is any way to make her feel better. She knew better than to chance leaving any animal in a hot car for any amount of time. She did it anyway. Ya know, sometimes, know matter how hard you try, you just can't make it right. Or make what happened any less than what it is. I think we all have things that we regret having done. We just have to learn to live with it. And hopefully not repeat it.


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## Jana (Jul 9, 2009)

Feefo said:


> This is from an SPCA site:
> 
> *Watch out for the following symptoms of overheating in pets: excessive panting or difficulty breathing, drooling, mild weakness, stupor and even collapse. Pets can also suffer from seizures, bloody diarrhea and vomiting, along with an elevated body temperature of over 104 degrees.*


This helps. That's the kind of info I was looking for.

I also agree with you, Cynthia, that hopefully nobody who reads this will leave an animal (or child) unattended in a hot car. I know I won't after this. What is peculiar is that I would have thought these things happen to people who really don't care or are not very smart. But having seen how lovingly she cared for the animal and how she raised him, as well as how protective she is of her cat, this means that it can happen even to someone with the best intentions. That should be a lesson in humility in and of itself.

Jay3, when you have something more helpful to offer than superfluous moral lessons, please report back. 

Till


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Jana said:


> .
> 
> Jay3, when you have something more helpful to offer than superfluous moral lessons, please report back.
> 
> Till


I posted an article. You just were not ready to accept it.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Jana said:


> A dear friend of mine recently found a baby pigeon (maybe it's a Mourning Dove, but I am no expert and it's hard to tell at that age) abandoned by its parents. She found him when he was about 16 days old and that's about 14 days ago. He died today.
> 
> She did take him to the vet when she found him. He was gaining weight and putting on feathers just fine. Was helicoptering and started flying at around 21-23 days.
> 
> ...


* Pigeons and doves *do not* tolerate being dehydrated. They do very poorly when dehydrated.

** I think it's very possible the bird died because it was left in the car. At the very least a major contributing factor.

There isn't an excuse good enough to validate leaving an animal or human (one who is dependent upon us) in a car. JMO

Cindy


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Till, I'm so sorry about what happened. We all make mistakes--sometimes terrible, fatal mistakes, with the creatures in our care. I know, because although I haven't made this particular mistake, I've made others just as deadly. It's very humbling. I'm sure your dear friend learned her lesson the hard way and I can tell by what you said about her that she's a compassionate, good-hearted person who made a mistake. Please accept my condolences for her loss. There's nothing worse than feeling you're reponsible for a bad outcome.


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## Necrogato (Apr 27, 2021)

Jay3 said:


> First of all, it WAS done. And secondly, it certainly COULD have been prevented. I think you know that. For some reason, it seems important to you to find something else responsible for the birds dying. Well, if he were sick, and if he would have died anyway, which I doubt, he certainly didn't have to suffer and die in that horrible way. Baking in a hot car. So, no matter what else you may try to find that could have possibly been wrong with the poor little thing, you can't change the fact of how horribly he suffered and died. There was absolutely no excuse for that. How do you take away from the suffering, by finding something else that might have eventually taken his life? If there were something else, can you actually believe that that would make his suffering any less? Don't think there is any way to make her feel better. She knew better than to chance leaving any animal in a hot car for any amount of time. She did it anyway. Ya know, sometimes, know matter how hard you try, you just can't make it right. Or make what happened any less than what it is. I think we all have things that we regret having done. We just have to learn to live with it. And hopefully not repeat it.


I'm literally making an account to say you're being a ****. 

Looking in to the pathology of a death is not excusing the mistake made. They are doing the best they can to learn from this to make better decisions on the future. 

You're using this person's fatal mistake and the death of an animal to soap box and stroke you're own self righteous ego. **** you


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## SociopathsWorstNightmare (May 12, 2021)

Jana said:


> A dear friend of mine recently found a baby pigeon (maybe it's a Mourning Dove, but I am no expert and it's hard to tell at that age) abandoned by its parents. She found him when he was about 16 days old and that's about 14 days ago. He died today.
> 
> She did take him to the vet when she found him. He was gaining weight and putting on feathers just fine. Was helicoptering and started flying at around 21-23 days.
> 
> ...


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