# Pigeon injured and droping head



## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Today i caught 2 pigeons. First time one with limping leg with a band.found the owner,met him in the parking lot where pigeons are and on my way further up, after i gave his bird,i saw in the corner where bikes are, a pigeon standing with head down and lots of peas (people left for feed). It is a mature bird and it looks it has dry wounds. I am very emotional, i fed him 100 defrosted peas, i trembled all the time while feeding.my boyfriend dosen't want to know, he is mad that i spend time looking for sick or string foot pigeons. So the pigeon will stay in the garage. My laptop doesn't work,so i write from a old mobile and is such inconvinient for me. I did not figure out how to upload the pic with it. I have amoxicillin ,is in capsule,opend it and gave one sixth of it ,the powder i mixed with water and used seringe. After feeding pooped dark green ,color of the peas. Beak and throut are clean. I do not have heating pad. Please let me know the medication if should be continued ,how much and how many times a day..


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

How many milligrams is the capsule? How much does the pigeon weigh?


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

500mg. It a mature pigeon big size. He seem alert after i fed him again, but after a few sec.his head suddenly falls down. He has 2 wounds one with dry blood at the wing, sholder and no feathers on chest with just a 1 cm scratch


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Dima...that's way too much antibiotic. That much can make the bird feel very unwell.
He should receive about 15mg, two times a day if he is 350-375 grams.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Before giving any bird medications, people should first come on and ask the dosage. Giving them way to much can cause more problems then they already have.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Pigeon is alive,it.s 12 am here and i went to check on him and gave him water. About antibiotic, i gave him way less than 1/6.opened the capsule and took the tip of the powder sticking out of the capsule. Pls tell me how do i measure 15 mg of that powder? 2 times a day? I read some threads and i am worried it has pmv. He sleeps standing with head down.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Dima, you can mix one capsule into 5 cc or ml of apple juice, preferably baby apple juice. Now you have 100 mg. in each cc or ml. Keep refridgerated and give 0.15 on a one cc or ml syringe.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Is his head still drooping? That can be a sign of concussion.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=3112020758348&set=o.111851922705&type=1&permPage=1


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

it's simply down. Could be head injury or infection from the wounds. He hardly winks,eyes are inexpressive.she breaths slowly.


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## Miss-Sassypants (Sep 25, 2010)

Dima, thank you for caring for the little one.

The experts can advice you further on the meds and care. But again, thank you for having a good heart and caring for the injured feral. Sorry that your boyfriend is upset, I am sure deep inside he knows you are a wonderful, caring and KIND person.

HUGS! Good luck with the frail one. Sending healing thoughts your way!


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

it's simply down. Could be head injury or infection from the wounds. He hardly winks,eyes are inexpressive.she breaths slowly.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Miss-Sassypants said:


> Dima, thank you for caring for the little one.
> 
> The experts can advice you further on the meds and care. But again, thank you for having a good heart and caring for the injured feral. Sorry that your boyfriend is upset, I am sure deep inside he knows you are a wonderful, caring and KIND person.
> 
> HUGS! Good luck with the frail one. Sending healing thoughts your way!


 Thank you for your wonerful words and thoughts of healing towards the rescued pigeon. I read your words to my bf, he said he is not mad or upset,but that he feels that i cannot enjoy life, because i suffer along with the pigeon. And i do, i cannot sleep at night thinking what he/she might feel. I wish i had him by my bed to oversee him. But i cannot bear the thought of guilt if i saw him and walked by. THANKYOU


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Jay3 said:


> Dima, you can mix one capsule into 5 cc or ml of apple juice, preferably baby apple juice. Now you have 100 mg. in each cc or ml. Keep refridgerated and give 0.15 on a one cc or ml syringe.


Hi Jay. Thanks for being by my side again. I bought apple juice and Drugmart had only diabetic seringe 1 cc. Problem is it has niddle attached,she said to break it. I will get juice 5 times through seringe put it in container and mix it with 500mg powder from capsule of amoxicillin then take 0.15, on seringe would be between 10-20 units as mark. Tomorrow i will upload pics from my comp at work. I will give him one at 6am and the other when i come from work 6pm. I feed him defrosted peas and also in between pigeon seeds. Should i give some grout töo. Poo is very good green and white. I am worried his wing is broken..


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

i will give antibiotic and then feed him right away?


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

i just found out. 3 hr after meal or 1 hr before


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Hope he does well. 
Do you mean should you give him grit? I wouldn't bother with the grit for now. He'll be fine without it. Before drawing up the med, make sure it is well shaken and then draw it quickly before it settles.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

The pigeon puked 30 peas out of 60 and pigeon seeds like mi£let,corn,sunflower.,am i overfeeding? He tried to let me know half way from one hand to the other,as i was keep changing my hand in front of him,and then he had the strengh to jump in the box, which was to feet in front of me on the floor. I thought his senses came back so i continued to feed him untill he puked.His eyes were expresive today, he winks and now after he drank water he stands like a male pigeon ready to dance, only his head is down.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Maybe he can't handle that much food right now. Did you wait until the crop emptied before you fed him?


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Jay3 said:


> Hope he does well.
> Do you mean should you give him grit? I wouldn't bother with the grit for now. He'll be fine without it. Before drawing up the med, make sure it is well shaken and then draw it quickly before it settles.


I pulled 15 suspentiön out of 100 units seringe and then i filled up the rest of s seringe with apple juice. Is that all right i guess. Yes i made sure is well mixed, dispite the fact that the were small particles like sand at the bottom. Yes i was reffering at the grit previously since i gave him seeds.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Jay3 said:


> Maybe he can't handle that much food right now. Did you wait until the crop emptied before you fed him?


I cannot feel his crop,below the throat i feel bones, but i noticed getting filled on his right side just little below throat, not like babies when i feel crop hanging. I fed him at 11 am then 5 pm then 9 pm


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If he is eating seeds on his own, as long as he is eating enough, you don't have to hand feed him. He had probably filled his crop enough before you fed him. Watch how much he is eating. Also, just draw up the amount of med, don't fill the rest of the syringe with juice. He is already drinking on his own.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Jay he canöt eat seeds on his own. My bf finally went to see him, he saw his crop on the right side of his throat and followed the line of his wing injury and chest bones and he said he was run by a car.may be this explains why he never lays down,s6me spine or neck problem.i help him to drink water by holding the cup with the tip of his beak in.it take about 20 sec until he realizes then drinks and pulls back standing very upright.i will upload pics tomorrow. Thank you Jay.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

When you said he vomited up seeds, I thought he must have eaten them himself. Try giving a couple of drops of Pepto before feeding or medicating. I would offer the water several times a day.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

ThankJAY .I will buy pepto tomorrow. Unfortunately he won't be under any supervision from 7 am until 6 pm, but i will leave seeds and water just in case.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I know it's hard when you have to go to work and can't be there. That's what I run into here too. Let us know how he does. Poor baby.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

He is a mature pigeon, but yes he is a BABY. I will call him BIGBABY.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Please tell me he was not hit by a car. But then how can be explained the wounds.

This is when i brought him and after i fed him.









After i feed him he gets to stand very upright and i don't know the reason. Especially after i offer water and he drinks the water.. he kinnd of shakes his body, pulls his body up and brings neck up,of course head still down, as if he says no more/ leave me alone or he is ready to have a dance for me ..lol. Is he happy or not happy? What does this behavior says?

















After he gets fed more than 40 peas-50 peas, he makes a lump on the side: i think his crop is on the side of the neck/throat.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

His wounds - he has already dry blood, even if i washed it, would't come off. Does it look like a cat or hawk or something else?










And from a different angle; you can see his blue- hurt part of body. He may be in big pain and blue from harm all over his body since he is not moving nor laying down.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Looks like hawk punctures to me.I'm so glad you have him on antibiotics.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Yes, he is the way Jay instructed me. I had a little problem this morning when giving him medicine...i might have given it not correctly this time because he sneezed about 6 to 10times this morning. On which side is the place to drop the liquid?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I criss /cross from left over to right.With the 1 cc syringe, I put it down the throat a bit. Use as little liquid as possible. There is no need to fill the syringe with apple juice.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

I have 1cc diabetic seringe ( that's what they gave me at the pharmacy - the only seringe they had) and i have to break the niddle, but there is still sharp pointy plastic sticking out at the tip of the seringe. So i am worried not to injure him so i open his mouth and "spray" inside throat quickly. 0.15 is so little...looks like it will stay in his throat and not reach his stomac.

You criss/cross from his left to his right.

Why his crop is on the right side of his throat. Will it get back as normal? Is he ever going to ge better? What is his problem? Is he traumatized? Sometime after i feed him he has tremors. Is the food painful to him? Is his body in pain? 

I can see BIGBABY wants to survive.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

You can get some proper syringes at a veterinary clinic. It isn't good to be using one with a needle jag.
Only time will tell if he is going to improve but pigeons are very resilient. Could be he was sick and that's why he was caught by a predator. Just keep on doing what you are doing and give him the benefit of time.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Bigbaby was missing feathers on the chest so i check him for wounds and i just realized the part of the body i am looking at has seeds inside. So i discovered the crop. LOL. *It's that the crop? It is hard as a rock.* When i was checking it by touch before i thought they are chest bones.
Jay3 was right he must be full since he pukes. I help him eating 2 times a day, 20 - 30 defrosted peas each time and drop some pigeon seeds also in this throat, more than that he throws it out.
I am not too sure if i am right but his body looks deformed to me.


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## pigeonlover2k11 (Jul 6, 2011)

maybe a car ran over him and thats why hes all gone wrong looking?
i dono,just a wild guess,im not a pigeon expert  
his chest looks scary though 
hope he survives 
tell BIGBABY i said hey


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## pigeonlover2k11 (Jul 6, 2011)

oh and the pattern on his chest looks like a net....just saying....


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Hi Dima,
Is the picture taken after you fed him? The crop should never be hard, if it is, you are overfeeding. It should be soft and squishy like a pillow - particularly if you are also putting in seeds which will expand further when wet. This is probably why he's standing so upright after feeding. 

Poor thing - looks pretty badly mangled, but they are capable of amazing recoveries and you're doing a great job.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

pigeonlover2k11 said:


> maybe a car ran over him and thats why hes all gone wrong looking?
> i dono,just a wild guess,im not a pigeon expert
> his chest looks scary though
> hope he survives
> tell BIGBABY i said hey


That's so nice BIGBABY is making friends.
Yes, looks deformed, but would a pigeon survive if it was run by a car? NO
His chest looks out of place. I wonder how could a hawk pull out the feathers so nicely with no marks.


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Feathers can hide incredible injuries. I recently had a hawk-caught pigeon - one of my feral flock who comes to eat every day. But one day he came just not looking like himself - incredibly stressed and exhausted, so as soon as I saw him I knew he had been through something very traumatic. The only sigh was a few feathers on his back looking out of place. I decided to take him in to check him, but could find nothing. I decided to keep him overnight until I figure out what to do. In the morning his crop was huge - like a balloon on one side. I knew this was a ruptured air sack, so had been attacked for sure. I took him to a experienced pigeon rehabber and it took her a while to very thoroughly check him for injuries. Initially she didn't find anything. Only on second examination did she find something in his neck, and only when she plucked away some feathers, she found a huge gash which needed stitches. It also turned out he had deep puncture wounds on his back. The only reason any of these were found was because we knew he had been attacked - from the outside he looked fine.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

nycpigeonlady said:


> Hi Dima,
> Is the picture taken after you fed him? The crop should never be hard, if it is, you are overfeeding. It should be soft and squishy like a pillow - particularly if you are also putting in seeds which will expand further when wet. This is probably why he's standing so upright after feeding.
> 
> Poor thing - looks pretty badly mangled, but they are capable of amazing recoveries and you're doing a great job.


It's never soft and squishy. And it should be since his main food is defrosted peas.It makes sence when you said that his standup posture has to do with his crop. Thank you.
Ok...he's on weight/crop loss management now.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

nycpigeonlady said:


> Feathers can hide incredible injuries. I recently had a hawk-caught pigeon - one of my feral flock who comes to eat every day. But one day he came just not looking like himself - incredibly stressed and exhausted, so as soon as I saw him I knew he had been through something very traumatic. The only sigh was a few feathers on his back looking out of place. I decided to take him in to check him, but could find nothing. I decided to keep him overnight until I figure out what to do. In the morning his crop was huge - like a balloon on one side. I knew this was a ruptured air sack, so had been attacked for sure. I took him to a experienced pigeon rehabber and it took her a while to very thoroughly check him for injuries. Initially she didn't find anything. Only on second examination did she find something in his neck, and only when she plucked away some feathers, she found a huge gash which needed stitches. It also turned out he had deep puncture wounds on his back. The only reason any of these were found was because we knew he had been attacked - from the outside he looked fine.


I wouldn't mind taking him to a vet, but last month found out that by law vets do not take care of wild birds anymore as they can lose their licence, unless is your pet. And if i took kim to Wild Life Rehabilitation Centre i will not know anything about this pigeon until November.
After your said your story, i will check him again. Thanks for sharing that. I hope your feral is OK now.


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

The rehab place I take took him to are essentially like a vet - they don't take the bird from you unless they need care you cannot provide, and even then you can go visit them anytime. You could tell the vet that although you found him you intend to keep him because he is now your pet.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Never thought that way. Sounds good. If no improvment after antibiotics, i will try to get my "pet" to the vet.


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## Invental (May 30, 2012)

*Hey Dima!*

You may remember me from a few weeks ago, the ferral pigeon from Romania, with the news papers all around. Just wanted to say hi and good luck to you and little Big. I also found another pigeon, a small baby this time, and my first is starting to fly a bit. Cheers and good luck again! Sănătate  !


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Dima said:


> That's so nice BIGBABY is making friends.
> Yes, looks deformed, *but would a pigeon survive if it was run by a car*? .


YES !!
Depending how badly it was hit & where.
My latest rescue Jake, was very lucky to survive being almost Flattened.
Car ran over tail area & tail feathers wer ripped out & run into road. 
All feathers around his bottom were lost also as well as half of them from his back. 
When I found & lifted him, more feathers from his back literally came out in my hand. (Also has some neck twisting problems purely related to the hit)
However, From the look of your birds crop, I would say the feathers have come out on their own, either from shock, or due to the crop being stretched by whatever is solid in the crop.
If his crop only expands on one side when he feeds, this to me would say that the rest of the crop was blocked and his stance & behaviour is trying t move food to the unblocked area so he can process it. 
Its possible the crop damage is from injury & the "blockage" either old food or internal scar tissue from damage. (His keel bone looks a bit off centre also) 
But these are just guesses, Best if you could get him to a good avian vet to check.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Invental said:


> You may remember me from a few weeks ago, the ferral pigeon from Romania, with the news papers all around. Just wanted to say hi and good luck to you and little Big. I also found another pigeon, a small baby this time, and my first is starting to fly a bit. Cheers and good luck again! Sănătate  !


Multumesc, Valentin.
You got your hands full with another bird. I hope you enjoy every moment spent with them.

I read something and i liked. I would like to share:
"Blessed is the person who looks after a pigeon, because the pigeon will pray for him"
(source unknown)


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

BIGBABY is getting better. That was quick in 3 days only.
I was looking for other hidden wounds and i washed his old ones with saline water. Then i got his box close the aviary and he was so curious about my pigeons and started to move his head right to left. Then he wanted to look pretty and starting to clean himslef.
But here's the tricky part when i come by him, he plays "paralized", when i am not around he shows signs of activity.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Of course...to him, you are a predator. I'm glad he's getting better.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Meeee predator.....  But you're right. If he could he would be out of his box in no time.

How many days BIGBABY should be on antibiotic? 7 - 10 days?
His crop is down now. 
He has jerks after he drinks water. Must hurt him inside. But he poops well.
He cannot sit down. He probably has a spine problem. 

I called a vet. And i described the condition on the pigeon. Almost made an appointment; but i cannot decide. It costs 111+tax(13%) just to look at it and if there is need of x-ray $84 .... LOL i told them than even a kid if it looks at it would know there's something wrong with her body and it should get an X-RAY. I guess i have to give up to spending any money for the long weekend and save it for BIGBOY.


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## pigeonlover2k11 (Jul 6, 2011)

Quazar said:


> YES !!
> Depending how badly it was hit & where.
> My latest rescue Jake, was very lucky to survive being almost Flattened.
> Car ran over tail area & tail feathers wer ripped out & run into road.
> ...


i agree what quazar said.contact an avian vet.and his head may be dropping because his neck is broken? i dunno,id say he DID get hit by a car.maybe he didnt get 'squished' coz obviously he would die but id say he was flying across the road and a car came speedin up and just hit him?
best of luck with BIGBABY


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## pigeonlover2k11 (Jul 6, 2011)

oh sorry didnt realise you already contacted one :/


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## pigeonlover2k11 (Jul 6, 2011)

awwh it would be lovely spending your money on bigboy/bigbaby? 
he will definately be thankful and its well worth it,pigeons are lovely


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

pigeonlover2k11 said:


> awwh it would be lovely spending your money on bigboy/bigbaby?
> he will definately be thankful and its well worth it,pigeons are lovely


Well, then i will send you the bill make a split and also share BIGBABY. He'll be thankfull to you too


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## pigeonlover2k11 (Jul 6, 2011)

Dima said:


> Well, then i will send you the bill make a split and also share BIGBABY. He'll be thankfull to you too



HAHAHA very funny


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## pigeonlover2k11 (Jul 6, 2011)

anyway howz he gettin on?


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

BIGBOY/BIGBABY is getting better. 
He prunes himself, drinks water and eats only round big peas because it's the only seed rolles down his throat. He picks the pea with the tip of the beak, then flips the head up and the pea rolls down the throat. He loves corn, he tries hard to roll them in the beak but they fall. He ca stretch the wings at the shoulder upwards, but the wing that falls cannot stretch it along the leg the way pigeons do. 
I take him out of this box when i come from work and he walks proud like a horse. He like sto hear and look at my pigeons in the aviary and wants to get inside. His head posture is better but when he rests falls down. I will try to upload a video.

Thank you for all the support and BIGBOY sends you kisses to all who worried for him.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Here's BIGBOY/BIGBABY...Nevermind me talking to him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydju7PuCrBg&feature=autoplay&list=HL1341001661&playnext=3

He's going to vet Tuesday. Fingers crossed.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

So he's better than he was when you found him?


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## Birdbabe (Jan 24, 2006)

Awwww, hes trying so hard, thank you for helping him


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

from your description of how he eats peas and how he is holding himself in the video, there is definately a serious problem with his neck.
It looks both swollen & very stiff causing his head to be at the wrong angle when hes standing upright. Not entirely sure what the problem is, but he definately looks uncomfortable and when he lowers his head it seems to be causing him problems.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Charis said:


> So he's better than he was when you found him?


Yes..Bigboy is far better. Every day he surprised me with at least one sign of improvement. Today he spent a lot of time standing on the edge of the cup with seeds.i guess he knows what belongs to him,very possesive, he even kind of growled at me when i touched the cup and tried to peck.i take it as a good sign.He has personality.lol. I thank you so much for help.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Birdbabe said:


> Awwww, hes trying so hard, thank you for helping him


He is a fighter. Thank you for being by his side. Without this website would have never rescued pigeons since i wouldn't know what to do.I would probably walked by him feeling sorry and hoping someone would care for him.


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

I'm so glad you're taking him to the vet - he really needs to be seen even though he's improving, which is great. I think he'll really benefit from an x-ray - I wish they weren't so darn expensive. 

You're a very caring person and are doing a wonderful job with him. Will be waiting for your update.


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## pigeonlover2k11 (Jul 6, 2011)

aww hes so cute  thanks for all the kisses from BIGBOY 
i love the way you called your video pigeon bigboy 
best of luck with the vet. xoxo


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

It's long weekend,me and Bigboy,we're having a picnic in the backyard lawn. I am laying on a towel and 2 meters away he is enjoying the sun. Our wild dove,called Dovey just came along and it's resting with us. This is a wonderful afternoon-i just felt i have to share it. 
Bigboy today is active,exploring the surroundings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WT4ZQ7s-L0s&feature=youtu.be


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Rip off from Britannia Animal Hospital


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I know, vets are expensive. What did the vet say?


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

First it didn't like the way she treated Bigbox,i will get in details tomorow about it. the pigeon was not hit by a car, she said it was pecked ,so it could be a seagul i w6uld think. The head was droping due to weakness, the wing is not broken. And she gave me the ointement and medication. She said that 15 mg was too much. 20 mg 6f amoxicillin for 1 kg pigeon. Bigboy was 320 g,so 7 mg was good for him. She was going to charge another 100 to inspect Patota's toe,but she said to the ointement for his toe as well for Bigboy's wing wounds. Can't these medication be bought at the pharmacy cheaper. 43 dollar for such small quantity of baytril ...


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I would think you could quarter the pills. I usually would give 10 mg. daily, and quartering them will give you 12.5 mg. If you have 7 pills, that will give you 28 pieces. And yes, the can look for enrofloxacin online at pigeon supplies.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You can buy Parastop from Global. Same family of drugs. You can use it the same way.

http://www.globalpigeon.com/advance...Csid=1dna5ha3q8a6e1pdv121va0vk2&Submit=Search

Also from Global
Salmonella Tabs. 
http://www.globalpigeon.com/index.php?cPath=24_56&sort=2a&page=2


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

You know Dima...here, the vet bill would be much higher. The cost of baytril is extreme. For about the same amount of money, I buy enough enrofloxicin to treat 36 pigeons. Can you imagine how much it would be if I had to buy it at a clinic?..over $1500.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

You mean Parastop and enrnfloxicin are similar drugs and can be bought on line. The price of Baytril is expensive because it'4 sold önly at the vet ? By the way i just went to change the bandage and Patota's toe is gone. The 7kin around is nice and pink where it broke, but the bòne is visible black in the middle. I read that flamizine should not be applied on healthy skin. should i continue to put it on the bone? Amoxicillin cannot replace the medication Charis and Jay mentioned? I have plenty. The vet mentioned a liquid that i can buy from pharmacy,i forgot now, to keep the suspension i made well omogenized. She said she used it also for baytril she gave me. I can't believe that taking into considerati6n Bigboy was a rescued pigeon,she could charge half the amount and since she checked the bird for less than 15 min.


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Sorry Dima - vets are really expensive and I've never gotten a break when bringing in a feral rescue. My vet charges $30 for 10 days of doxycycline, which is not even an expensive medication, so I now try to get antibiotics online or from a doctor instead of a vet. Baytril is equivalent to the human ciprofloxacin, and once you get your doctor to prescribe you an antibiotic - it last for a long, long time. 

I know the vet said Bigboy is holding his neck the way he is because of weakness, but it just seems like such an unnatural angle - did the vet not think Bigboy needs an X-ray, and are you seeing any improvement in that?

P.S. Parastop is norfloxacin whereas Baytril is enrofloxacin, so the two are very similar and can probably be used interchangeably. Norfloxacin is also available for human use - it's brand name is Noroxin.


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## Birdbabe (Jan 24, 2006)

Just checkin in to see how Bigboy is doing.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

He is as happy as a only a bird could be. His head is not droping anymore, but his wing is dragging on the floor. He flaps and he exercise jumps,he has logs of wood to go up and d6wn. He got attached to me -when i come from work he gets released and he joins me in the backyard. The vet checked the wing and said there is no fracture,just the sore muscle which was punctured from the pecking of the agressor bird stop him from using it. But i can feel it's different healed than the other-he does not stretch properly. Bigboy likes my birds and he made many attempts to get in the aviary. Yesterday he cooed and danced in front 6f them. Vet said to keep him away from my pigeons for 6 weeks. He has the company of our wild Dovey all most of the timd,that's when i know there is no cat around and i can get in the house for a few min in and out checking 6n him. So Bigboy got me as his unpaid nanny. Baytril worked good on his, after 2 day his neck is fine.by the way he does have a very long neck,no wonder it was hanging when he was weak.He is on vitamines and needs to fatten up,his keele bone is easy to feel. I am happy he has so many friends on Pigeon Talk,i wish he knew it.


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Sounds like he's really coming along - you've done so well with him. I hope he rewards you with a complete recovery, but if his wing remains as it is - he'll still be a very lucky boy to have have found such a good home.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

*Home?*

I am not too sure Bigboy can stay with us. I promised my BF that he will be here until he gets healthy and be able to fly. He really wants to be part of the flock and he attempts to get inside the house and he likes to stay on top of the big cage/ aviary. I feel sorry for him from this point of view. Will see what future brings and what kind of accomodation we can get for him.

But our discussion is open. I can still "share" him with you so you can get his unconditional LOVE also. I don't want to be too selfish.


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## barry123 (Jul 6, 2012)

hello, ill take it if you want i have got racing pigeons ill give it medications and get it healthy again if you want to let it go


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

barry123 said:


> hello, ill take it if you want i have got racing pigeons ill give it medications and get it healthy again if you want to let it go



My Gosh, you are in UK. It will have to make the biggest flight in him life. Let's first finish the medication i am giving and see if by any miracle later he can fly.

I would definitely not let him go out in the wild..i was going to do some research to send him to rehabilitation centres. But i don't know if the keep birds that cannot fly.

He is very dear to me. It really breaks my heart if i give him away and not know what happened to him. Last month i rescued a string foot pigeon, healthy, only that feet were bad from ties. I sent him to Toronto Wildlife centre..they will not tell me what happen with the bird yet, only after November. I hope he survived anasthesia, he needed a toe removed and lots of TLC.


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Dima said:


> I am not too sure Bigboy can stay with us. I promised my BF that he will be here until he gets healthy and be able to fly.


Uh-oh...and I already settled him with you, lol. I know these kinds of promises well - my husband always extracts one from me whenever I bring in a new rescue. Well, hopefully Bigboy will be able to fly, and if not...will find a loving home somewhere.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Do you think is bad what you see? Bigboy want to go inside where all the birds are or aviary. I was told to keep him away from my birds for at least 6 weeks. I didn't want him to feel alone, even thou i babysit him all the time when he's out of his box, i thought it would be nice for him to be AROUND my pigeons. What do you think? Can my pigeons get sick, if he is sick of something and is it mean to do this to him?

BIGBOY WANTS INSIDE:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSJnBCWczKQ


BIGBOY MAKES IS ON THE CAGE:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHSB9STs-CY&feature=youtu.be


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Oh wow, he looks great! I'm very impressed by his progress to jump-flying. I hope he makes it all the way. I have two pigeon in my feral flock who have been dragging their wings for years, one as badly as Bigboy, but it doesn't stop them from flying. 

You're right no to let him in with your pigeons for their sake, but also for his - he'll probably get badly pecked as a newcomer anyway so it won't be much fun at all. 

BTW, you've got a nice place there Dima with some beautiful plump pidgies.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Thank you. Do you think is not safe to keep him in that cage when mines are not around/inside. So far so good,they share the same air,.i am worried for his dropings in the aviary, mines are pecking from the floor sometimes fallen seeds. And yes Bigboy improved quickly, he needs thou to fatten up.


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## Birdbabe (Jan 24, 2006)

Whats one more??? Im not much help am I ????Hee hee He looks great by the way, I honestly think he will not be able to be released, so if you dont keep him, I hope he gets to someone who can. Good luck.


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

I wouldn't put him in the cage even when your pigeons are not there. Sharing the same outdoor air is one thing, sharing the same floor, perches etc. is another. Besides, the reason he wants to get in there is because of all the other birds, so if they are not there, there won't be much point for him - he craves the interaction and he'll be getting more of it by being outside their cage while they are there, than inside by himself.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Thank you. Do you think is not safe to keep him in that cage when mines are not around/inside. So far so good,they share the same air,.i am worried for his dropings in the aviary, mines are pecking from the floor sometimes fallen seeds. And yes Bigboy improved quickly, he needs thou to fatten up.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

nycpigeonlady said:


> I wouldn't put him in the cage even when your pigeons are not there. Sharing the same outdoor air is one thing, sharing the same floor, perches etc. is another. Besides, the reason he wants to get in there is because of all the other birds, so if they are not there, there won't be much point for him - he craves the interaction and he'll be getting more of it by being outside their cage while they are there, than inside by himself.


Thanks, i'll take your advise for 5 more weeks. Sorry that my replies duplicate,i am writing from my mobile.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Birdbabe said:


> Whats one more??? Im not much help am I ????Hee hee He looks great by the way, I honestly think he will not be able to be released, so if you dont keep him, I hope he gets to someone who can. Good luck.


I appreciate your honesty, but by the same talk,i don't like to hear that he won't fly...i wonder if unproperly healed wing can serurgicaly be fixed by vets.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Bigboy's wing is still hanging down. Sincerely i suffer because of that; i am not used to see a disabled bird that tries to fly and cannot.

More precisely it's not his whole wing dropping, it's only the part of the long feathers. They hang really low and it's bother him even when he's walking and because of that he walks sideway since the long feathers are touching his leg. I taped it for 4 days, but after untaping him for 2 days he wouldn't even try to flap or stretch (even thou the flapping and stretching at his right wing is not complete).

So today i called the vet and left a message with receptionist since i paid examination and she said the wing is not broken. But i have a clue that it's not broken from the top, but only where the long feathers are attached.

He likes to sit on top of the cage in the evening; he jumps to get there but he cannot. One day i put him up and i did so every evening, until one day he fell off (he stays on the edge). And it was awful to see him falling on the side of the bad wing..he could not turn to stand up and he cried while laying sideway. I cried with him. It's my fault. I spoil him and that's dangerous for him. This morning as an aplogize gift ,i left him in the outside cage where usualy my birds are let in the evening . He inspected the "aviary" walking around and when i left he jumped on the stick and was so happy to have my pigeons place as his place. Now i am at work and i am dead worried that he might fell. I try to make him happy and i do not look at the consequences. I feel bad and stupid. How do one comes around with a disabled bird in his/her life?

I hope the vet would give another examination for free, since he didn't do it properly first time? What do you think?

Any opinion about his wing is welcome. i will post a pic soon. But i think you can guess from the videos above.


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## Birdbabe (Jan 24, 2006)

First of all, dont feel bad, you saved his life. Im sure hes grateful for that. As for his falling, can you just have some low perches for him to hang out on? If hes happy in there, I personally would leave him there, hes safer and away from predators. There are lots of people that have comprimised birds, I , myself have a few special needs cockatiels and adjusting the food and water situation as well as perch and cage set up lets them be "birds". your doing great with him,


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Dima, I have a disabled little hen with the same thing. Her name is Cricket, and she does just fine. Of course she is a very spunky little feral that a very nice couple found running around in a parking lot. She does pretty well just running and it took them over a half hour to catch her. Looked like a dog or something had gotten her and bitten a hole right through that joint that holds that part of the wing up. Like her elbow? 

Anyway, I brought her home and treated her wound, but it was really damaged. I didn't have the wing removed, as she can use it some. She can flutter up to lower perches, and the way I stagger some of my perches, she can jump from one to the other and get up higher. She can also use it to flutter down from a higher spot to a lower one. And it helps to keep her balanced, and warmer in the cooler weather. She is amazing though, the way she gets around the loft by herself. I gave her a very low nest box with a ramp, as she was going to different places to perch, and seemed to be looking for a box. She didn't like that one and actually took over a box in the second row up, which is a few feet up from the floor. She would get to it by jumping from one shelf to a perch, then around a corner and into her box. It scared me that she would fall, so I turned the perch into more of a shelf, and put another shelf in front of her box for her to jump to. A miracle happened almost 2 years later when a very sweet girl was looking for a home for her little rescued male who had needed surgery to remove one of his wings. Little Virgil was flown here from the other side of the country, and I introduced them. They are a happy little couple now and living a pretty normal life in our loft with all the others. 

It really isn't as hard as you would think. Virgil doesn't have a wing on his right side, and if he falls, he falls like a brick, so have had to make allowances for that. But Cricket can flutter to break a fall. This is why I wouldn't remove the wing. She will also trip on it when the feathers get too long, but I keep them trimmed up higher. This way they don't get in the way, but she can use it somewhat. I just wait til there are no blood feathers after the moult, and then trim them where they will not be a problem. 
You can build ramps, and make things more accessible for her. The bath I use is a tray that is only 2 1/2 inches high, but large. It's deep enough for bathing as I fill it up, and this way Cricket and Virgil can easily get in and out. I used to use the cat litter pans, but worried about one of them not being able to get out easily, so I found the lower pan online, and everyone seems to love it. I have put wooden boxes in the aviary so that the birds can just walk out the window and the bath is right there on that level. The others can then fly up to perches to sunbath, but I have added lower ramps for the couple that can't fly. They do very well, and can get around just like everyone else. Just improvised the loft a bit. The water is on a table that they can walk to from their box, but they can also get down to the floor and back up to their box by way of a ramp. I didn't want them to be stuck living on the floor. They are almost like everyone else. You would hardly know that they are handicapped. So look at your loft, and think of ways to make it accessible to them and he will live a nearly normal life. Keep the wing clipped up so that it doesn't get in his way, and he will be fine. The other alternative would be surgery to have it removed as they did in Virgils case. It doesn't have to be a problem. More of a challenge to find ways to make it safer and easier for him.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Birdbabe said:


> First of all, dont feel bad, you saved his life. Im sure hes grateful for that. As for his falling, can you just have some low perches for him to hang out on? If hes happy in there, I personally would leave him there, hes safer and away from predators. There are lots of people that have comprimised birds, I , myself have a few special needs cockatiels and adjusting the food and water situation as well as perch and cage set up lets them be "birds". your doing great with him,


Thanks Birdbabe. 

He used to live in a big box until i was back from work. And after that, i would spend the whole evening up to 9:30 outside with him. 
There are low perches and high perches and a few stands on the side of the aviary (you can see in thevideo), but he jumped from the low stick to the low stand to the high stand and then on the highest stick.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

What a wonderful story.
Now Cricket, it's a she- with the bad wing. How does it affect the wing when she is mating? And yes, Bigboy,just like Cricket can flutter his wing; Bigboy may be a Biggirl as he likes to look at herself in the mirror, and he/she coos when he/she sees the males.

What does it mean: _"I just wait til there are no blood feathers after the moult, and then trim them where they will not be a problem"_ I thought to cut the tip of them, but that may bother him more.

The fact that he had no feathers on his chest, vet said he was moulting. Now he grows new feathers on the chest but also on the inside part of the long feathers. 

And here's a new problem: his leg goes, when he walks, in between the new feather and the long hanging feathers and that's why he walks sideway. I thought to tape the new growing feather (which is sticking out from a cylinder shape like), but it's a growing feather and it shouldn't be taped. The worst is when his leg gets stuck over the feathers. So how should the feathers be cut so they won't be in his way?

Don't mind my Picasso talent,pls.









Below is a pic. circle no 1 is where i feel different that the healthy wing, thicker and bumpier. And circle no 2 i what i think the problem is (only the first 3 feathers are far apart from others)










About batheing, i noticed that 1 inch was a problem for him shaking his head and front chest in the water, the way the birds do,because the wing was not much of a help. So now i use a 3 inches deep, a little bit more than Jay. He does not bathe evey day though and it very hot outside.

Yesterday i took my 2 month old roller in the backyard and we compete running back and fourth (of course Bebe -my roller, always catches up with me and ends up on my head) and Bigboy was following us... and for a moment i felt like a knife in my guts an awful feeling when i saw him juming up in the air a few times trying to fly with us. But i do know inside my heart how happy he must have been. At least i know i was very happy to see him following us up and down of the backyard.

I am still hoping a miracle.


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## Birdbabe (Jan 24, 2006)

From looking at the drawing and pic, I think its his "wrist". Oddly enough I have a rescue tiel who dosent have this part of his wing, I found him a bloodied up in the street and that part was already gone, beleive it or not he can still fly, not well but he can. Maybe the vet should have a second look at that and if its bothering Bigboy so much that little part where the three feathers hang could be removed? I hate to say that, because Im all for leaving the whole bird if possible. He will of course still be able to flutter and jump as does Jays Cricket, Hopefully Jay will be more help than I am. You can send Jay a PM . Sounds like he is already bonded to you and you two will have a great freindship together.I want to thank you for everything your doing for the wellness of this pidge.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Birdbabe said:


> From looking at the drawing and pic, I think its his "wrist". Oddly enough I have a rescue tiel who dosent have this part of his wing, I found him a bloodied up in the street and that part was already gone, beleive it or not he can still fly, not well but he can. Maybe the vet should have a second look at that and if its bothering Bigboy so much that little part where the three feathers hang could be removed? I hate to say that, because Im all for leaving the whole bird if possible. He will of course still be able to flutter and jump as does Jays Cricket, Hopefully Jay will be more help than I am. You can send Jay a PM . Sounds like he is already bonded to you and you two will have a great freindship together.I want to thank you for everything your doing for the wellness of this pidge.


It's so great to hear your appreciation. It really makes my heart grow.

So far I haven't introduced him inside to my pigeons. My males are quite demading and teritorial, including Bella, the oldest female pigeon, who owns the floor. But will see this one in the future.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Dima, Crickets wing hangs the same way as your bird. Here's a picture of her wing clipped to keep it out of her way. Sometimes I go a little shorter.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Thanks Jay. I will cut them shorter than his next good feather. By the way,i love that human expression in Cricket's eye.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

GUESS WHAT?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scll_Jlcbn4&list=HL1343331394&feature=mh_lolz

Highlight below line and find the answer:
!!!!!Bigboy has a girlfriend who can fly!!!!!!


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Aww, how cute is that. And she seems totally smitten with him. So, looks like he's staying with you then.... can't say I didn't see this coming, LOL.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

yes, it was simple. I just put him in and nobody said anything. I did it as if it was natural to do so. I saved my talk for other time.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Dima, that's so cute. They seem to want to go under the nest boxes, as it's probably easier for him with the bad wing. If you were to push that large brick thing (patio block?) I saw in the video, over to in front of the box above where they are going, it would make it easier for him to get into the box. You don't want them nesting that low, as you won't be able to clean it or check for eggs.


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## Birdbabe (Jan 24, 2006)

Awwww, how wonderful! He certainly has come a long way with your care, and he has a girlfriend! Everything came full circle for this guy, Thank you.


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## pigeonlover2k11 (Jul 6, 2011)

i JUST finished reading the whole story,its soooo cute  hope they have chicks


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

*Bigboy's ladder*

BigBoy and his ladder  helping him get to places.

These are videos in the first days of him getting used with his tool. The steps seems a bit apart, but now he learnt to walk on each step. No injuries at his toes. I needed something so he can reach outside in the aviary ,and not only there, and just a woodboard was to steep for him.

http://youtu.be/e9wFl-CsPtk
http://youtu.be/eHj2WepNuVI


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

That is just precious. Thanks for sharing.


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