# Poor Squidget! Sob!



## dnrslucky1 (Oct 13, 2005)

Squidget is doing very good after the Baytril! But I don't know how long I can take this! I love him so much, but he is so crippled, he can't stand up or walk, just twirl in a circle to get his balance! He cannot eat or drink unless I am holding him up! He is breaking my heart! Please I need someone in Michigan to help me! I just feel as if I am not doing all I could to help him! If anyone could help him, please let me know! Maybe he can't be helped, I just don't know! His legs are getting worse and I don't know how to help him!

Denise


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## dnrslucky1 (Oct 13, 2005)

Sorry! I am having one of thos down nights! The quality of life thingy! Am I doing the wrong thing for him,by keeping him alive, for my own feelings? He still loves seeing me everyday and can't wait to get in my sweatshirt! But that is not normal, from what I have read on here! Laying on his back with his eyes closed! 

Denise


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Denise, I have thought all along that you must be the strongest person..........I don't know how you've done what you've done so far. I know that you are looking for an answer and no one can tell you what to do. I personally think that you have to first, consider your self. What if Squidget lives for 8 or 10 years? Are you prepared to care for him that long? Are you prepared to see him in the shape that he is in now, for 10 years? You are there with him and you see the quality of life he has. Like I said, no one can give you the correct answer, but I'm going to step up to the plate here and may get kicked out of here for this, but........I would like to think that no one here would blame you or have any harsh words for you if you were to take Squidget and humanely have him put to sleep. We have all followed your story and know that ups and downs that you both have had. We all know that you have gone way beyond the call of duty and have tried everything to help this poor baby. What if something happened to you, God forbid, you get sick or have to be in the hospital.....who would care for Squidget and would anyone be willing to give him the attention that he needs? I hope what I've said has not made you or any one else mad or upset. I may be WAY OFF BASE here but I sort of get the feeling that this is something you might have considered but needed to hear it from someone else. If I'm totally wrong here, I sincerely apologize. I wish there was an easy answer but I guess there's not and only you know what you are willing to do. We all read your storys and "feel sorry" for you and for poor Squidget, but if any of us had to put the time and effort into the life of this little bird, I don't know how many of us would be willing to make that comittment and then follow through. I wish you the best in what ever you decide. I know I go through and read all the posts most every day and everyone talks about their pet pigeon and calls them by name and I remember some of them but forget exactly who's who but I've never gotten confused on who Squidget is. Under the circumstances he's had the best life he could ever hope for. Thinking about you and Squidget like I do every day........


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

I just went to see who's "on line" and EVERYONE is reading this thread. We all care so much and feel so bad for you...........we all hang on every update we get on Squidget. It's really amazing. If love and caring could cure Squidget he's be flying like an angel, no doubt.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Denise & Lovebirds,

I'm not upset by your feelings Denise, nor upset by the very well expressed post from the Lovebirds. I would add one aspect to the situation. Denise, whatever you've read here that makes you think that Squidget's response is not normal, you would have to consider that you haven't read about all of the responses, because not everyone posts all the particulars of their situation. You've opened up yourself and circumstances to everyone here in a way that is uniquely you and yours. The Lovebirds make a good point that Squidget could live for 8 to 10 years in his current condition, and would you be able to continue this over time. This is a realistic consideration.

But wanting to get into your sweatshirt, well, if a bird isn't an aviary bird and has no other companions, then I'm thinking that it is a normal response. He loves you and has bonded to you. DD gets mad at me if I come home and take too long to come find her, what can I say?

What I'm wondering about is if there is a way for you to rig things up differently so that he can eat, or learn to eat on his own w/out you holding him up. These kinds of modifications are made for those of us w/disabilities all the time, and it's a win-win situation for all. Is he able to crawl at all?
There may be something that can be done so you don't feel the heavy weight of needing to be his sole feeder.

Ultimately, of course, this decisision is up to you and I'm sure that no one would fault you for whatever course you choose. You are the one that is living with this situation. My heart goes out to you in whatever that choice is as I know that you want the very best possible outcome.

fp


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Denise,

I'm sorry for what you are going through with Squidget. I truly wish that I had some answers for you. I understand what Renee is saying--It's easy to "talk the talk," but you, Denise, are "walking the walk," with all the care and dedication you have devoted to Squidget. You are the one that knows best the quality of life that Squidget has and I'm sure no one here would ever give you a hard time over *any* decision you may make concerning him that you felt was right.

I know many members have had and presently have special needs birds and have offered suggestions in the past. Perhaps some of them can post or repost some ideas that may help you make modifications that will enable you and Squidget to live more comfortably with his limitations.

I wish I could offer some real help to you that would ease your mind. You've been through so much with Squidget and I hate to see you so discouraged.

Linda


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Denise...!


If Squidget is happy, and if you can handle the time and attention Squidget needs, then, all is well...

If Squidget sleeps on his back sometimes ( to ease his legs? or just ends up there from fidgeting? ) with his eyes closed, well, as long as he does not have any problems with doing that, then...all is well...

Squidget is Squidget...!

They are unique, they have things about them that are their own individual matters.

In every picture you have posted of Squidget, they always look happy...!

Now, I know from my own experience with the ill or injured ferals or Wild ones, that individual Birds with special problems or needs can really take a lot of time every day, and sometimes this can be hard to manage, one can not leave for long to go anywhere, and all the time, every day one looks to make sure they are allright and or to see what needs to be adjusted or delt with or feeding them, medicateing them on schedules, and...it is a big committment, it is a big piece of our lives being bound up.

Sometimes this does not leave as much of us as we might need, for the other parts of Life we are also supposed to be dealing with or managing or putting attention and energy into.

Thats the deal...with that...

So, in summary, if Squidget is happy, and if you can manage what it takes, then by gosh, all IS well and fine...



Everyone here admires both of you so much...!

If there was a Squidget 'Tee Shirt" I would buy one! and I never even wear such things...

Lol...but true..!


Now too, maybe some new things can be tried, or old things tried in new ways, and or new adjustments considered, for them to be supported while eating and so on, but then too, for Squidget, eating likely IS very much bound up 'in' a social energy-assurance-time and in an intimate habit of feeling safe and cared for, and, for them, they just might not have thought much about eating otherwise...or, if they are willing to eat otherwise, then as you mention, they need some way to be held comfortable for them to do so, and maybe you could experiment some more with finding a method for that.

Some sort of soft sling might just be worth trying different versions of for this, and, too, if they grow to accept it or like it, you can always hang them in it here or there near where you are doing things so they can be sociable that way without having to ambulate to where you are to do so.


I wonder if their legs are painful sometimes?


Phil
las vegas


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

dnrslucky1 said:


> Sorry! I am having one of thos down nights!
> *The quality of life thingy! Am I doing the wrong thing for him,by keeping him alive,* for my own feelings?
> He still loves seeing me everyday and can't wait to get in my sweatshirt! But that is not normal, from what I have read on here! Laying on his back with his eyes closed!
> 
> Denise


Hello Denise,

I am so sorry Squidget isn't improving as hoped.  
With regard to your question, 'highlighted above', Renee has brought out some very good points to ponder. 

The quality of life issue plays an important role in any decision we must make regarding our pets. 

My thoughts & prayers are with you. 

Cindy


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## Guest (Jan 17, 2006)

*It's not always easy.*

Claudia was a crippled pigeon of mine. Looking back on it I didn't really do that great a job of taking care of her, but I did my best in my ignorance. Anyway she live only about a year. She had to scoot herself in little backward circles to get around. She did eat and drink on her own. She would get herself so filthy. One day she was acting a bit diffrent. She was stretching out her neck and resting her head on things. I thought to myself, "That's odd -- I'll have to keep a close eye on her." The next day she was dead. I thought to myself, "Did I do anything more than create a year of miserable living for this little creature?" Looking back at it all, I don't think she would have eaten if she didn't want to live. And when I think about it, human beings cling to life even under enormous suffering. I suspect pigeons are similiar. Think of the harsh conditions feral pigeons endure. Claudia may not have had the best life, but I think it was better than death.

One thing I can tell you is Squidget is not normal, and that's just fine! Don't worry too much about "normal".

With all my pigeons I try to spend a reasonable amount of time caring for them. That means I do not let myself spend an unreasonable amount of time caring for them. I feel responsible for them, but I consider my life more important than theirs.

I would recommend that you work on making caring for Squidget as easy for yourself as you can. Budget you time and energy and try to make his care as efficient as possible. You can always do a little more, but thinking like that can drive you nuts. 

Monica


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*Life and Death*

It is a hard thing to say and do. I care for over 100 pets. Sometimes they get sick. Some can be heal and some can't. It is a hard choice. But being humane is always the right anwser.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

*Hi Denise,*

When I first saw the thread title, I panicked and thought Squidget had died! Then I read your post and still panicked!

At this point, it _*seems*_ as if Squidget will never improve. However, you don't know for sure. I know there have been other times when you have been discouraged but have persevered.

Caring for special needs humans, animals and birds is not for everyone. Few are able to do so. In my opinion, you are one of those rare people who *CAN*. You have more than proven that in all the postings about Squidqet and his trials and tribulations. Few other other pigeons on this site have affected us as strongly as Squidqet.

Unfortunately, no one can give you an answer, nor do I think they should. As difficult as this is, only you will be able to come to a final decision. Squidget _may_ live for many more years and then, again, he may not.

Hopefully, maybe some of the sling suggestions could work or other innovations to help make your job easier and help Squidget with his eating and drinking.

But, in making decisions, ask yourself if Squidget seems to enjoy what life he has. The fact that he's eating and drinking says A LOT! If a bird did not want to live, why bother to eat or interact with their human? You have just finished the Baytril. I would really be interested to see how he does now that he's off meds!

We will always be here for support. There will always be good days and not-so-good days. The support REALLY comes on the "downer" days.

Isn't there anyone around your area who has pigeons that you can talk to? What type of family and friend support do you have?

Right now, you and Squidget are in desparate need for HUGS! Consider me and Mr. Squeaks in a long line to give you both LOTS of HUGS!

Please hang on!


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

dnrslucky1 said:


> Sorry! I am having one of thos down nights! The quality of life thingy! Am I doing the wrong thing for him,by keeping him alive, for my own feelings? He still loves seeing me everyday and can't wait to get in my sweatshirt! But that is not normal, from what I have read on here! Laying on his back with his eyes closed!
> 
> Denise


And what, pray tell, is wrong sleeping on ones back? If I had Squidget's legs, I might want to sleep on my back too! 

I sure wouldn't mind riding around in a sweatshirt either! How many pigeons can say they have their own "personal" transportation system?!  

You also have a being who loves you with all his birdy heart! How many pigeon owners can say that?


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## phyll (Mar 15, 2004)

Denise,
When my dog was nearing the end of his life, my vet asked if my dog was still happy to see me. 
That was the question the vet used to help me. In your post, you answered that question. Squidget is still happy to see you. If he seems to be enjoying life, is not in pain, & you feel you are able to continue his care, keep things as they are. 

I don't know if this will be of any help to you, but let me tell you my own experience with my beloved pet.
Denise, I loved my dog with every fiber of my being, & wanted him with me as long as possible. 
Monica stated that she considers her life more important than her pigeons' lives. I guess the majority of people feel that way, but I do not. The lives of my pets are no less important than mine ~ or anyone else's for that matter.
Then there's the LOVE you feel for them. Ohhh, more love than you ever thought you could possibly feel for a little creature.

At almost fourteen, my dog could no longer get up or lie down without assistance. With just about everyone I know, he would have been put to sleep at that stage. 
A major problem was that he didn't bark when he needed help. He would just lie on the floor struggling to get up until I heard him, then I would run to help him.
Also, he was hesitant to use the steps to go outside, so I carried him out, stayed with him & carried him in.
Other than needing assistance, he was doing okay. His appetite was fine, he enjoyed licking his rawhide bones & he was still happy to see me.
The vet prescribed medication to insure his comfort.

In order to continue to live a somewhat "normal" life, he would require constant supervision.
The solution was for my husband & I to take turns being with & caring for my dog around-the-clock. He was never left alone, never.
One of us stayed awake while the other slept. I must admit that after a few months, the routine was taking it's toll on us. For as much sense as this makes, I didn't care if we dropped dead, just as long as my dog was comfortable & could continue to live.

I only left the house once a week to go to Mass, which I sped to & from. When I returned from Mass, my dog
was happy to see me, so each week, I reassured myself that it was alright to continue to extend his life.
Unfortunately, as the months passed, he became more & more uncomfortable. He needed the medication more often, & was sleeping a lot.
Now, there was virtually no joy to his life, BUT he was alive. Selfishly, I wanted him to continue to live for me, I couldn't face parting with him.

Finally, it got to the point where, except for eating, drinking & making, he was sleeping because of the medication. That was his whole life, just sleeping. 
Five days short of ten months, when the trouble began, the medication stopped working. I had given him much more than enough, but he couldn't get comfortable. My dog cried & I knew that was it! No more, he couldn't stay any longer, we rushed to the vet.

When we brought him home, I placed his body on his spot on the couch. I looked at his frail, thin body & thought, "What did I do to you?" I knew I should have let him go sooner, before he had become a shell of his former self. I knew I had made a terrible mistake by prolonging his life to that point, but now it was too late, too late for him. 
I purposely avoided typing his name, thinking I could make it through this without crying; it didn't work. His name was Mikkos (after a character on GH), my very sweet Bichon Frise.

Denise, I would like to think that my judgment was clouded at that time, due to lack of sleep for so many months, but I don't think so. I wanted my Mikkos with me, almost at all costs. The only reason I let him go, was because his suffering could not be relieved.
I know better now & would never let that happen again. I would not end an animal's life because it takes extra effort on my part, but I will never prolong their life for my own sake.

If you are certain that Squidget is not suffering, fine, do all you can for him to enjoy life. If you feel it would be a blessing to him to go, then please help him to go. If that time does come, please stay with him, so he is with someone who loves him. I do regret extending Mikkos' life as long as I did, but will never regret staying by his side until his last breath.

May God give you guidance with your decision. I know you love Squidget & have gone "above & beyond" to help him. With his best interest at heart, you will make the right decision.

Phyll


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Denise,
I am sorry you feel so discouraged. I wish there was a way I could help.
You've done the most amazing job with Squidget and I know he is happy. As long as he is not in pain, he doesn't know he is disabled. He was born like this, he doesn't know any different.

Reti


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I don't find that I have an easy answer, either. I seem to be the type to always want to try and find a way to make the best out of a bad situation. If you could have seen how pitiful Chance's first attempts at flying were, you'd know how hard I've tried. I used to hold him by the body with his wings free and fly him through the house making fighter-jet sounds. We'd occasionally strafe Lin. Chance would flap lightly with his wings, the left one almost useless. He's also the one who kept one leg forward, somewhat like Squidget.

But, in time, he got stronger and his flapping gained enough power to make him light in my hands. That's when I started ending the flights over the bed and he'd manage the landing on his own. It took a month or two and a lot of work. Only it wasn't work, really... it was just 'life'. I have always thought that life beats the alternative. And I have always thought that life didn't give as much to those who are the most perfect and have need of nothing.

Pidgey


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Denise,

I have no experience with a special needs pigeon, so I have no right to even try to post about what you should do. I just want to say I'm so sorry for what you and Squidget are going thru.  

I will stand behind any decision you make, because you are the only one that is living this drama and you will know what is the best decision. I will pray for you that you can come to peace with this.


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## dnrslucky1 (Oct 13, 2005)

Thank you all so very much! 

I cannot tell you how much your caring words and gentle support helps me when I'm feeling down! I think I had my hopes to high and really expected to see Squidget, improving and getting stronger!

Yesterday, I realized that wasn't going to happen and it hurts me way more than Squidget. I don't think Squidget is in any pain, but I can see his frustration, when he is trying to keep his balance! He trys so hard to keep himself clean but he just can't keep balanced.

Squidget can scoot some, but mostly in circles with a little sideway action now and then. Maybe I am just expecting to much to soon!

I am prepared to take care of Squidget for 10 or more years, as long as he is happy! I enjoy holding and feeding him! I guess it is hard for me to understand how he can be happy!

Thank you again, I am feeling better now!

Denise


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## dnrslucky1 (Oct 13, 2005)

Phyll,

Thank you for sharing your story! I once had to make that very same hard decision with my old dog! I also waited to long, but could just not bring myself to do it! Maybe we humans are just to emotional and can't let go. 
Denise


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## dnrslucky1 (Oct 13, 2005)

Thank you Lovebirds,

I was feeling everything you said, before I started this thread. I want so badly to do what is right for Squidget. I love taking care of him. If I could only know that he is happy and not miserable. Hopefully time will answer that for me.

Denise


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Denise,

Yes, we humans can be emotional about our pets, there's no doubt about that, but questioning our emotions w/our intellect is the sign of a healthy pet owner. And that's what you and many others have to do in the course of our care giving. You know, our pets get to know us pretty well, and what they can get us to do for them. Sometimes it's needed, and sometimes, emotionally, it is simply what they want from us. I had an old dog who used to have me carry him up and down the stairs to my bedroom morning and night because he let me know that he couldn't walk up and down by himself. Then one day after school, my father told me that I'd forgotten to carry him down that morning.

Well, maybe I wouldn't have remembered normally if I had or hadn't, but that morning I damn near fell down the stairs w/him so I remembered well that I had brought him down. Well, the old devil had gotten me to carry him up and down for so long, that I just continued fully realizing at that point that he could master the stairs himself. The reason I continued? Just because that was what he wanted, and I could give that to him. Now if I had to carry him every where, I would have had to reconsider his needs and what was best for him. I guess this is your dilemna right now.

It could be that with a little coaxing, Squidget would self feed and water. I would give it a try. With Ballsy, who couldn't walk or fly at first arrival, I built her a ramp in her cage so she could ramp up to her bowls. Then one day at the pet store in a non-bird section, I saw ceramic untippable bowls that were lower than the ones that I was using.

At about 2 inches, she was able to reach over the edge easily and access her food and water. Eventually, after many months, almost a half a year, she started to fly on her own. Her walking is still a challenge for her, but her cooing makes me believe that she accepts her new life and is happy to have it even tho it's a far cry from the freedom that she once experienced.

I think I would try to wean Squidget of your feedings and try to get him to self feed and water and see what happens from there. He needed at one time to rely on you the way he did, but perhaps now, he still does just because he can. It's always up to you, but I'd give it a try, it might help things for both of you.

fp


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## dnrslucky1 (Oct 13, 2005)

Hi fp,

I am sure I do more for Squidget than I should! You have brought up a very good point! I could be hindering his potential by doing to much! That is something I have not thought about! How can I expect him to grow up and do things on his own when I treat him like a baby and do everything for him!

Thank you fp! Today starts a new beginning for both me and Squidget!

Denise


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

dnrslucky1 said:


> Hi fp,
> 
> I am sure I do more for Squidget than I should! You have brought up a very good point! I could be hindering his potential by doing to much! That is something I have not thought about! How can I expect him to grow up and do things on his own when I treat him like a baby and do everything for him!
> 
> ...


Denise,
It sure it a pleasure to "hear" you feeling better this morning. We've all said our peace and now it's up to you and Squidget. You'll both be just fine and we are all behind you, pulling for you both. Just remember, when those days come along that seem so hard, just breeze on in here and let her fly........we'll all listen and feel the hardship with you and help you get through it as best we can.


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Hi Denise,

I have a hard time with the idea of euthenasia but I do understand what it is like to care for a disabled pet. I had a sweet Chow a few years back that I just could not let go of. Like Phil, I carried her in and out of the house until the very end. She just wanted to live so badly and be with us all the time. Her outlook on life was positive to the last. We gave her round the clock care to the end but it was so sad and she died in my arms one night. Just a deep sigh and she was gone. 

I hope that when I am old and sick that I have someone just like you to look after me. God bless you.

Cameron


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Denise, 

I really feel for you over this entire situation You've given Squidget every conceivable opportunity and chance in life. You've provided him with all the meds, care, and love that anyone ever could lavish on an animal. 

As the others have said, this is completely your decision and only you will know what is right for Squidget in the future. I'm probably one of the few people here that will say this and that is, I don't think we understand enough about the "emotions" of animals and what they really mean. I believe that what we humans sometimes perceive as contentment or happiness, is oftentimes just a very strong will to survive. That drive is very strong in all species as is the drive to reproduce and thus, "surviving" again really in new young lives.

My advice to you is pretty much the same as everyone's here, follow your heart, give it some more time and trust in your gut to know what to do here. You will know what is right down the road because we here all know where your true concerns lie and that is what is doing right by Squidget.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Denise, like everyone else here, I wish the very best for you and Squidget. And, like everyone else, I feel you must make the final decision. We had a miniature pinscher dog, Missy, for 17 years. She was my heart, and still is, although she has been gone many years now. We also held on too long until our vet, who had looked after her for those 17 years, finally said that we should let her go with some dignity. I have never forgotten those words and to this day do not regret having her euthanized because her quality of life was so dismal.

I have never, and will never, put a bird to sleep without giving everything I have to helping it survive. I believe in exploring every avenue of care.

To me, Squidget's main problem appears to be the leg that faces the back of her body. This leg is probably the cause of her going in circles and falling over. I have wondered this morning if that leg were amputated at the "knee" joint or where it is making that backward bend, would she be able to maneuver better.

If the leg were amputated, leaving a sizeable stump, she may be able to function fairly well. Although our Mr. Humphries' legs are bowed and he can't stand up but a little, he is still able to fly in the aviary and maneuver around very well although he does lie down most of the time in the house. Our Silver, the one leg amputee, could not fly at all because the entire leg had to be amputated and he could not get the "lift" he needed. He could still maneuver around on his tummy in a controlled environment. The vet had told us that she tried to leave even a small stump because that would help him balance better.

Neither bird had a problem with getting poop on them or getting to their food and water although, again, under controlled circumstances. It just seems to me that if that leg was taken care of Squidget would then be able to move in a straight line, get to her food and water and not wind up on her back so much.

I hope this makes sense. I've started this post three times because I honestly don't know how to put my feelings into words. I wish Pidgey were closer to you because he is so smart about things like this.

Love, Maggie


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

feralpigeon said:


> Well, the old devil had gotten me to carry him up and down for so long, that I just continued fully realizing at that point that he could master the stairs himself. The reason I continued? Just because that was what he wanted, and I could give that to him.
> fp


fp,

You raise a good point and I can really relate to it. A few years back, I had a guinea pig that was so sick that she had to be hand fed for a few days until medication took effect and she would be well enough to self feed. The vet gave me food that could be mixed with water to form a paste that could be syringed into her mouth. I cannot tell you how much she and I enjoyed these feedings! I would place her on my dining table directly in front of me and syringe a little bit of food into her mouth...she would chew it up and swallow and I would wipe her little mouth with a tissue after each little bit. She would be looking straight into my eyes the whole time. It was the cutest thing to watch and a real bonding experience for the two of us. Needless to say, these feedings went on for a bit longer than necessary because we both loved it. She was fully able to eat from her food dish and drink water from her bottle, but she would whistle and whistle until I'd take her out and feed her a little while. Of course, eventually I had to practice a little "tough love" (on her and ME!) and things went back to normal.

Denise - I'm glad you're feeling a little better today.

Linda


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## kittypaws (Sep 18, 2005)

*Echoes*

Denise,

I can only echo the sentiments of everyone else here today. I read your post this morning (UK time) and planned a response and when I got home this evening most people had already said what I was going to.

It's not easy, I am sure looking after Squidget but as Reti says he doesn't know that he should be walking or flying - he doesn't know any different and it sounds as though he loves his mom very much.

If you can cope with his care for as long as he needs it and that he isn't in pain then I think ( and this is me personally) that you should keep perservering with Squidget. You have invested so much time and love into this remarkable little bird who most certainly would have died without your intervention and I just can't help thinking that if you do decide to call it a day whether you can cope with that too. As others have said in posts about previous pets , the guilt we humans can suffer when making "the decision" can be quite soul destroying.

I think as you say low and high days will prevail and we will all try and rally you around but no-one would ever think badly of you whatever you decided to do.

I think Squidget is safe for a while though eh?

Love Tania xx 

PS - I had an awful day at work today but I kept thinking about you Denise and your problems with Squidget and Tooter and Victor and my stupid day didn't seem so bad in comparison ....


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## dnrslucky1 (Oct 13, 2005)

Hi Maggie,

The right leg that goes backward is a big problem, but that whole hip is and has always been wrong! It is almost like it is out of joint, when he puts pressure on that leg his hip will stick out and then his leg slides back! It is getting stiff now, I can barely move it forward! But the other leg is always forward and that foot is limp! I don't think amputation would help him, but I could be wrong!

Denise


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## dnrslucky1 (Oct 13, 2005)

Thank you Linda!

I am feeling much better today, thanks to all the kind and caring Pigeon Talk members! I needed some support and got an overwheming response! My spirits are back up till next time! Lol!

Denise


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## dnrslucky1 (Oct 13, 2005)

Tania,

Thank you so much and yes it was a bad day, but I am not ready to give up yet! Thanks to everyone here!

And yes I think about Victor and Tooter every day also! Maybe that was a part of me feeling so bad! I feel very selfish with my small problems compared to Victor and Tooter! Gee! I hope and Pray for them to be reunited!

Denise


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Denise, I'm glad you're feeling better today, you know the old saying....one day at a time.....you be the judge  .

Linda, I can just see you two now, the guinea pig staring intently into your eyes as you dob away the excess food from its' mouth, very sweet!

fp


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

dnrslucky1 said:


> Hi Maggie,
> 
> The right leg that goes backward is a big problem, but that whole hip is and has always been wrong! It is almost like it is out of joint, when he puts pressure on that leg his hip will stick out and then his leg slides back! It is getting stiff now, I can barely move it forward! But the other leg is always forward and that foot is limp! I don't think amputation would help him, but I could be wrong!
> 
> Denise



Denise, your post reminded me of a discussion I had with my vet once. 
My hand raised Angel has severely splayed legs and she wasn't able to stand or walk for the longest time, not even on the roughest towels.
My vet suggested surgery, to have the leg removed from the joint and repositioned. While thinking of the pros and cons of the surgery, (anesthesia risk, infection and long term antibiotics beiing the main corncern )and thinking how to scrape the cash together for it, Yong gave me a great idea. She brought me some of those self adhesive cuboard liners, they also have little holes in it for an even better grip. Well, they worked so wonderfully that I am not cosidering to put Angel through surgery anymore. I lined the whole room with it and she can walk and even more, the exercise made her legs much stronger. She has a perfect grip and can walk around and stand wiothout her legs sliding to the sides.. Where is was impossible for her to stand on smooth surfaces, she now can at least stand long enough to get off. Of course her legs weren't as bad as Squidget's to begin with, but maybe it is something you could try to make him stronger.
Surgery would be a good option in Scuidget's case, but you would need a really good vet to do that. And of course there is always the risk that goes with the surgery and postop care.

Reti


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Reti, could you describe these liners a little more? They may be something we could use for Mr. Humphries rather than cloths for a better grip. Are they similar to the rubberized mat thingees you put under rugs to keep them from slipping? I use some in my cabinets that are "rubbery" like but they don't have holes.

Maggie


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Lady Tarheel said:


> Reti, could you describe these liners a little more? They may be something we could use for Mr. Humphries rather than cloths for a better grip. Are they similar to the rubberized mat thingees you put under rugs to keep them from slipping? I use some in my cabinets that are "rubbery" like but they don't have holes.
> 
> Maggie



That's it. The rubber thingies you use for the carpets/rugs. They also have them for cuboards and those have a woven apearance, that's what I describe as little "holes" Home depot has them most of the times.
Wish I had a camera to show you..
They are also excelent as they are washable and last about a couple of months until they loose their stickiness.
They also only cost 2-3$for 3feet.
I can mail you some if you don't find them.

Reti


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Reti, thanks. I know exactly what you're talking about. Have some at home and will try them today. They would help cut down on my laundry! One thing, though - since Mr. H spends a great deal of his time on his tummy, do you think the liners would feel "clammy" or cold to him?

Maggie

PS - You are very kind to offer to mail me some.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I also use them for Angel's nest, otherwise she has trouble getting in and out, so far she hasn't complained about it LOL.
You can always put a towel and on top of it the liner, the towel would absorb the humidity from urine and droppings.

Reti


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Denise,


Is it possible that the problem Leg is dislocated?

Can you try feeling there where the hip joint is while pulling gently on the Leg to see if you can feel anything to suggest this might be the case? Pull from the thigh...

Their Hip Joint is virtually on their back you know...in effect, their spine is fused and flat and wider at that area, to make their pelvic area which supports their hip sockets.

I will see if I can find an image showing it and post later today sometime...

Been having computer problems the last few days and if I try now I will likely loose this window or crash...


Phil
Las Vegas


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Any possibility of X-raying Squidget?


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## Cricket (Sep 1, 2005)

I was without internet access for the past four days and can see I have missed alot. I just wanted to say that you people are the kind of people I envision living with in Heaven. I just read the threads and sit here with tears streaming down my face. You are all so damn beautiful! Denise, you will always find support from this place. As do so many of us. Like so many have already said, my heart goes out to you while you struggle with the quality of life question. Squidget came to you for a reason... he needed to be loved. He is ckearly loved and ultimatley it is all about love. When his time comes, however that may come about, he will have experienced such a wonderful level of love and his life will be worth every single minute of struggle or discomfort. Just to have had all that love! Not to mention all that "good energy" so many of us have put out there for you and Squidget. As fp said, one day at a time... hang in there.


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## dnrslucky1 (Oct 13, 2005)

Reti,

I know what you are talking about and will pick some up this week! And yes his foot slides even on towels!

Cricket, I totally agree with you! My friends and family think I am nuts, so when I have a down day and need some support I come here! And quess what? I get more than enough! Suidget is determined to live and everyone here loves him, the same as I do! I let him sleep with me the night I had the down day, thinking if I smothered him at least he was happy! He loved it, but I hardly slept! He cuddled right up to me and went sound asleep! He is like a Teddybear in so many ways! I just hope he is as happy with me as I am with him!

Phil, I don't think his leg is dislocated. I think the joint is loose and maybe hasn't formed right, because of the balance issue. It was always loose and stuck out, but as time goes by it is getting worse for wear, like the hip socket is not tight!

Denise


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## dnrslucky1 (Oct 13, 2005)

Mr Squeaks,

Yes, but I am not to sure about the vet. The last one I went to told me, he was born that way, nothing could be done! But when I was seaching for Baytril, a very nice vet called me back after I had already ordered it from Foy's. I will give her a call and see what she says! You never know! Maybe she could be of some help! Thank you, sometime I take it for granted there is nothing to be done! I was so sure it was the Paratyphoid and the Baytril was gonna be the cure all!

Thanks again,
Denise


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

dnrslucky1 said:


> Reti,
> 
> 
> Phil, I don't think his leg is dislocated. I think the joint is loose and maybe hasn't formed right, because of the balance issue. It was always loose and stuck out, but as time goes by it is getting worse for wear, like the hip socket is not tight!
> ...


Hi Denise, 


Your description DOES co-respond with the classis presentation OF a dislocation.

This could have happenned to Squidget before you got him you know, and been this way the whole time while everyone assumed his Legs were being effected by other factors.

I myself have sometimes had Baby Birds of various species who had a dislocated hip, and who knows how they managed to get it..??? 

Consider please to get someone to check this for you, with you, and, possibly to re-insert the Hip joint into the Socket for you with the operatively correct angle and judgement from experience.

Sometimes it IS that 'simple'...!


Love!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## alaska (Mar 17, 2005)

Hi Denise,
My computer has been down for a few days, however in this time I am glad everyone here has helped you feel better 
I myself love seeing updates on little Squidget, and feel that perhaps a visit to an avian vet would be a very good idea. I'm not sure what vets you have available, I know of one here in AU that has bred hundreds of pigeons and specialises in Pigeon Care, and I consider myself and my pets very lucky for this...perhaps there is a similar person around your area that may be able to assist in assessing Squidget.
As has been mentioned perhaps Squidgets legs are due to dislocation, or they may be misformed..a good avain vet would be able to xray and check this.. and should also be able to give some good indication of what the chances of progression are with Squidgets ailments.
If you get a qualified oppinion on Squidgets current and future progress atleast you will then have some imformation to work off in any future decisions of your caring for Squidget.
I myself believe if he is capable of eating drinking and is appearing to enjoy his life...which seems to be so with his affection for you, then his quality of life is high and he should continue to enjoy this aslong as you can provide the caretaking.
As for what is normal...what is normal?? A group of standards that are what is to believed as the expected way of being...but isn't it the differences that make everything unique what makes everything so special?
At the end of the day...I beleive, as I know many here do...that you have and continue to do a Magnificent job of caring for Squidget and he could not be in better hands. Whatever decision/s you make in the future I am certain are always for Squidgets benefit and no-body here in the PigeonTalk Family could look at any decision you make as a bad one for beloved Squidget.
Please keep us updated on your progress.
Regards
Alaska


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