# Two crosses paired, what if



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

What if these two paired birds which are the same cross, jacobin and silsian swallow, had their own young, is it possible for them to hatch something very different than the parent birds or would they look like copies of the parents?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

They will probably look different from the parents, but may have some of their traits. Are these the babies from your jacobin and silsian swallow?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Actually, they could even have some traits from the original parents. The jacobin or the silsian swallow.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

yes they are mine and they have paired up, Iam not going to hatch from them they are bro and sis. too close. but just looking at them made me question what traits the young may or could have.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I rescued Sammy, a fancy with feathered feet. He mated up with Gully, a little homer. They had babies. One looked a bit like Dad, the fancy, even in coloring. The other didn't look like either parent. They mated up and had one baby. She looks more like the original fancy (grand dad) Even has his feathered feet, which her parents don't have.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Jay3 said:


> I rescued Sammy, a fancy with feathered feet. He mated up with Gully, a little homer. They had babies. One looked a bit like Dad, the fancy, even in coloring. The other didn't look like either parent. They mated up and had one baby. She looks more like the original fancy (grand dad) Even has his feathered feet, which her parents don't have.


oh wow, I guess that is what I was wondering could happen, could their young look more like one of the breeds they are mixed with.. these birds do not look like either of their breeds..lol.. they sort of look like a saint with a grouse leg, they are a nice silver with a bar and white in the face and chest, they do not have a hood, but just a small cowlick looking creast on the back of their head.. It is kind of weird they picked each other to pair up with as they were raised seperate due to a foster switch and had to hand raise one of them. I really have enjoyed them as they are great flyers as well, who would of thought that!.. I really do like my mutt pigeon pair.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Sammy and Gully
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Here is their offspring, Samson and Delilah. Don't know where Delilah came from, and Samson has a lot less white on his head, and no feathering on his feet.

















Here is Rascal, hatched from Samson and Delilah. She has more white on her head than her Dad. More even than her Grand Dad, but more like him. And feathers on her feet like Grand Dad. She and her Grand Dad are a couple of my faorites. Very friendly and comical and inquisitive birds.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

This is Rascal as a youngun'









Also forgot to mention that Sammy's son has some gray mixed in where on Sammy it is white. In the grand daughter Rascal, it has gone back to white.


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## horseart4u (Jun 16, 2011)

they are cute no matter what..i have a pair of bermingham rollers, ( brother & sister) that paired up..OOPS, mom is a dilute, dad is an indego bar, grand parents are dad is red check mom is indego bar this baby is going to be dilute.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

They can look like mom and dad or improved with stronger ornaments.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

MaryOfExeter said:


> They can look like mom and dad or improved with stronger ornaments.


thank you.
you mean they may have stronger ornaments even if the parents do not?


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

They can  Especially if there's any recessive stuff involved that will show itself in the kids.


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## honeyrobber (Apr 28, 2011)

The F1(original cross) will hide alot of traits of the parents. The F2 can show any of the traits of their grandparents in many different mixes. Let them breed they are not inbred very much and you could get something very new.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

honeyrobber said:


> The F1(original cross) will hide alot of traits of the parents. The F2 can show any of the traits of their grandparents in many different mixes. Let them breed they are not inbred very much and you could get something very new.


Thank you for the info, That makes it tempting, I really do like this pair and what strong flyers they are, which is a suprise because neither a jacobin nor a silsian swallow fly well at all. I will give some thought on the inbreeding, The reason they are here is from curiosity also, so I don't want to do the wrong thing.


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

honeyrobber said:


> The F1(original cross) will hide alot of traits of the parents. The F2 can show any of the traits of their grandparents in many different mixes. Let them breed they are not inbred very much and you could get something very new.


If you want to see the results and you have the space and time and money to feed a couple more birds, let them breed. There is nothing more exciting than waiting for the unexpected surspises that happen with crossbreeds.

I also agree about the inbreeding. I have bred brother and sister MANY times wthout any bad results, as show breeders and homer men have done for a very long time.


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## honeyrobber (Apr 28, 2011)

You just do not want to breed brother to sister for more than 2 generations. You would need to have another pair of the same hybrid or add a pigeon from either parent breed or even a new breed to see what all you can ge in the same bird. Show chickens are inbred then outbred. We have 3 lines of BB reds. One has russian blues mixed i them another has different type of mini game(very game breed) and the third is pure bb reds. The russian hybreds are a color mix(added ablack chest) and the game mix was to add more attitude as BB reds are mini games but mos of the gameness has been bred out of them. We only have about 8-10 of each line. The eggs are marked as to which line but the chicks are raised together and then breeding sets made from the them. So brother to sister to cousins for about 5 generations with no problem. This year I will be taking and making new line from the mini game mix and the pure to throw a few back into the pure from these as we have totally got them breeding pure for color. When inbreeding this hard you have to be very picky about your parent stock. The inbred lines are getting to the point egg production is going down and why we are introducing a bit of new blood to the old pure line.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Yes I agree you should give it a go spirit wings - Remember, the two crosses are so unrelated that their offspring will be fine paired back to each other due to the large gene pool that was created by the original cross


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

honeyrobber said:


> You just do not want to breed brother to sister for more than 2 generations. You would need to have another pair of the same hybrid or add a pigeon from either parent breed or even a new breed to see what all you can ge in the same bird. Show chickens are inbred then outbred. We have 3 lines of BB reds. One has russian blues mixed i them another has different type of mini game(very game breed) and the third is pure bb reds. The russian hybreds are a color mix(added ablack chest) and the game mix was to add more attitude as BB reds are mini games but mos of the gameness has been bred out of them. We only have about 8-10 of each line. The eggs are marked as to which line but the chicks are raised together and then breeding sets made from the them. So brother to sister to cousins for about 5 generations with no problem. This year I will be taking and making new line from the mini game mix and the pure to throw a few back into the pure from these as we have totally got them breeding pure for color. When inbreeding this hard you have to be very picky about your parent stock. The inbred lines are getting to the point egg production is going down and why we are introducing a bit of new blood to the old pure line.



those mini game birds sound really cool.. I like small birds.. I have nankins and japanese..and two seramas.. are these mini game birds as small as a bantam type chicken like a seabright?


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I know someone who has inbreed for many years the same line of birds with no problems. It all depends on what "bad" genes there are that could pop up. A clean line likely won't have any problems if those genes aren't there.

The talk about mini game chickens makes me miss my BB red OEGBs  My favorite little chickens! Old Dutch banties are great too. Not a whole lot of difference between those two anyway


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## honeyrobber (Apr 28, 2011)

Imagine the fighting cocks that are actually used for fighting in something a bit huskier than seabrights(broader chest) and ofcourse those long tails games are known for. I love their attitude. The are not very big at all yet they think they can whoop your butt. As with any true game breed of chicken you can not introduce new birds easily and you can not keep more than one cock to a pen. They can not even see each other in the pen next to them as they will fight through the wire. I raised the real fighting cock in my junior and high school days and boxed them. You do trim the comb and such but you put a cushioned ball on the spurs and count points. Of course the guys buying my stock had other plans and why I gave them up. I just love their wild nature.


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