# It's MY turn to vent...........



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

I'm just posting this as a general post to whoever cares to read it. I haven't had much time the past few days to spend on the forum. I stop in, read real quick and then leave.
Just the past few days, I've come across these posts about pulling flight feathers, cutting flight feathers, taping flight feathers, soaping wings....etc.......
STOP doing these crazy things if you don't know what you are doing!! If you want birds that you can fly, either GET YOU SOME YOUNG BIRDS or BUY YOU SOME BREEDERS AND RAISE YOUR OWN.
If some of you could spend ONE week on 911 Pigeon Alert and see what happens to birds when they become lost you would think about what you are doing.
These guys do get lost and there's not much you can do to prevent that. But when you start taking older birds and trying to teach them to stay at a new home, you're playing with fire and you're playing with the birds life!
Homing pigeons are call "homing pigeons" for a reason. THEY GO HOME. They are not dogs or cats that will "learn" to live and stay where ever they are housed. 
And pulling, cutting, taping and soaping is not the answer. Even after you've done all of this, most of you will turn the birds loose, they'll take a one way ticket out of dodge, and you'll be back here crying the blues, wondering what you did wrong and feeling sorry for your self, while the bird is out in the wild blue yonder starving to death. 
And this also applies to other breeds of birds. Some are meant to fly and some aren't. If you've been given or purchased a breed of bird that really has no business out free flying, the it's pretty simple. Keep it in the loft. Quit trying to figure out how you can let it be free and still keep it safe. You can't have your cake and eat it too. 
This post is not directed at any one person, but if the shoe fits........... 
Also, I wish that some of you would stop giving the above advice. 
Can you re-home a pigeon? Sure, it's not impossible but it's VERY risky and the odds are against you that it will work. And when it doesn't work, the only thing that suffers is the bird. You can get more birds. The bird you just let go, may not be lucky enough to find someone who give a crap about it, so it's doomed. 
I sure hope this doesn't make anyone mad, but I've just grown a little tired of some of the suggestions that are made here to new people about how to keep their birds at their new home. The best way to keep a new older bird at it's new home is keep it IN it's new home. No bird ever died because it wasn't allowed to fly. As long as they've got food, water, a decent place to live and a mate if you give them one, it won't hurt them one bit to never fly again. It sure beats the hell out of sitting out on someones roof for three days in a pouring rain because it's owner turned it loose when they shouldn't have. 
If any of the moderators think that this post is inappropriate and wants to delete it, that's fine. There will be no hard feelings. 
I feel better just by typing all of this............


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## Jazicat (Oct 31, 2005)

When I got my feral girls I thought about flying them. Just so you know the information I learned on PT was one of the reasons they are inside birds. Once I found the odds of them coming back they have lived happily inside their adult lives. There are those of us out there who hear you and our birds lives are better for it. Thank you!


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Renee,
My personal opinion is that your post was long over due. Thank you for your honesty and common sense. I will never doubt your commitment to our beloved pigeons.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I hope and pray that people will become more responsible with their pets. They depend on us and we have to make the right decisions to keep them safe and healthy.

Reti


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

WELL DONE...WELL SAID...and I CONCUR!!

Sometimes I think that so-called "intelligent" people do not always have COMMON SENSE...

Shi


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## littlestar (May 11, 2005)

Renee knows, I just had a case that I handled where a young bird got lost and starved to death. By the time the bird was found it was to late, the bird died, it was very sad. These bird are feed by humans and when they get lost they don't know how to find food on their own, and yes they can starve to death if they get lost and can't find food. I have a case right now were the bird is missing some tail feathers, there is a 1 inch gap in the tail. The owner said to release it, but the person never mentioned it missing tail feathers to the owner nor did they mention it at the time to me because I would of told them not to release this bird with missing feathers. I'm hoping they get back to and say they still have bird at their house and not released it. It makes my blood boil when someone reports a bird to us and says the wings are clipped. These birds are not hook bills. I agree with Renee, spend one week on 911 Pigeon Alert.


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## velo99 (Apr 8, 2007)

Nope, not going there.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Your thread is not inappropriate at all, it is RIGHT ON as far as I'm concerned. 

Thanks Renee, I'm sure that your experiences with 911 pigeon alert has allowed you to see different perspectives on owning pigeons, as well as the many birds lost due to ill-educated/irresponsible owners.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Honey, you just rant on all you like because you're absolutely right. We have several pigeons in our aviary right now that we got because they were turned loose, couldn't find their way back home. Many were sick and starving. I also would like to include the wedding/funeral/whatever release pigeons in this rant because many, if not most, of what we have come from that category.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Good point Renee,

Even after 10 years...a "Homing Pigeon" has been known to attempt to go to the home where it imprinted. These birds should NEVER be allowed loose. After a long period of being a prisoner they also lose their muscle tone, and will end up in someone's backyard, untill they die from exposure.


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## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

Thank you for posting this Renee.
Whether out of frustration or not - you're making an excellent point here.
I commend you (and all of the 911 Pigeon Alert rescuers) for looking out for the poor lost and suffering creatures.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Yep, you said it well, Renee.

We don't race or show pigeons, of course, as we just have rescues. But among our rescues we have fit - now we've got them - homers, who are going nowhere .. and they sure look pretty happy in their home. I'm sure that one of them (Sir Poopsalot) who Cynthia found in the park had been trying to get home, only a mile away, but I believe his owner had moved some distance and maybe tried to get him to re-home, and he just headed back to where he thought he should be. No way could he have got so sick and exhausted otherwise ... and we never did get ahold of the owner.

John


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## Rockie (Jan 18, 2005)

Well said Renee. I agree w/you and everyone else and thank you for all you do and all you speak up about.


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## velo99 (Apr 8, 2007)

If all of you think these birds are meant to be caged and can never be released again using the best methods and training available, I think some of you are overstepping a bit in this thread that seem to be directed at the flyers. I also noticed my advice doesn`t seem to be needed or heeded so I will retire to my perch and get a little chuckle from some of the things you guys do with your pigeons.

I`m out


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

velo99 said:


> If all of you think these birds are meant to be caged and can never be released again using the best methods and training available, I think some of you are overstepping a bit in this thread that seem to be directed at the flyers. I also noticed my advice doesn`t seem to be needed or heeded so I will retire to my perch and get a little chuckle from some of the things you guys do with your pigeons.
> 
> I`m out


I haven't seen any advice from you in this particular thread, so I'm not sure what you are referring to. 
When someone can come up with a fool proof plan that will allow a person to bring in a one, two, three year old race bird that has flown to another loft, into another loft and get it to stay there and consider that new loft it's new home, then I'll chance my mind. 
No one, no matter what you do, can guarantee that an old bird will stay at a new loft when released. I don't care how many feathers you pull or cut or soap or how many babies you let it raise, you CAN NOT guarantee that it will work 100% of the time. Does it work sometime? Sure it does. 
If it was that easy, then we could go to the club/combine auctions and just pick up some good flyers, home them to our loft and race them. But we don't do that. We go buy them and use them as breeders because if turned loose, they'll go back home! 
Let me make myself perfectly clear that I am referring to homing pigeons. I don't know much about a roller or a tumbler or any of the other breeds. 
Now, probably the next thing to be said will be, "you can't GUARANTEE that any homer will stay, whether it's a new young bird raised in your loft OR an older bird from another loft" and I will agree with that statement 100%.
The difference is, that the young bird is given every opportunity to learn what it needs to learn and do what it's supposed to do. If we, as fanciers have done everything in our power to teach that young bird right and it still gets lost, there's not much you can do. 
In my mind, "homing" a pigeon that's hatched and raised in your loft is totally different than "RE-HOMING" a bird. 
My point was that there are so many new people who get pigeons without doing their homework. They think they can go to the local flea market, buy some "homers" for $5 a piece, bring them home and "teach" them to stay. Don't work like that and I think you know that. It's not impossible to do, but it's improbable that it will work and when it doesn't the BIRD suffers. No one else.


velo99 said:


> so I will retire to my perch and get a little chuckle from some of the things you guys do with your pigeons.


Not sure exactly what you mean by this. Do tell, please.


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## Guest (Jun 15, 2007)

i agree with renee here , its a real crap shoot trying to get a bird to rehome .. I mean I have had birds that I bought from other places get out an stay around and I have had birds I bought from other places get out an poof they were gone in seconds even after being at my place for over a years time ..so you cant tell me that you know any bird from some other loft will definiately stay at your loft .. it really depends on how much your willing to lose when you let that bird out even if his wings been soaped ,clipped or whatever you do to it  once its in the air again and its homing instincts sets in theres no garentee hes staying with you thats for sure


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## NitaS (May 26, 2007)

I noticed that someone mentioned previously about wedding/funeral releases. and I felt that I needed to speak up for myself. My birds were first purchased with this in mind after my husband did research on the birds. We read several different books about raising/training birds for this purpose. If we had been aware of this sight, we would surely have asked opinions here also. Because we researched, we purchased what we were told to be young, unflown birds to train from our loft We have lost birds, but I don't feel we can be blamed if we followed training procedures that we researched and still lost birds. We trusted the seller that we were purchasing birds at the correct age. 
I would NEVER knowingly release a bird that was not capable of returning home.
I would NEVER release the birds that we purchased as breeders since they did not originate from my loft. 
Whether I use my birds in a racing hobby or in a wedding release business, they still have to be properly trained and treated with care. I personally don't care if I never have a wedding release or not, these are my birds and I love them
Please don't think I'm trying to be a smart---. I am truly grateful for the knowledge I gain from this forum and I will continue to read and follow suggestions that I receive, as well as ask for advice. 
Thanks for letting me vent also.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

The only time I EVER released a pre-homed pigeon/pigeons were some birds given by a friend and I had the absolute option of picking the bird up if it did not stay.

I called him on the phone so he would know to look out for the bird/birds. I would never ever do that without that option. I have had some that will and some that won't, it is definitely a gamble.

I also don't appreciate people flying their breeders when they are about to be/or are parents-that is another risk... big time, especially if they are prehomed.


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## velo99 (Apr 8, 2007)

Before you guys started this thread perhaps you should go back and re read some of my posts a little more carefully. 
I am a respected experienced pigeon breeder. I don`t just throw things out there I think will work. I have given detailed information about which birds can be homed and which cannot. All of the info I post is based on years of experience both mine and that of flyers way more experienced than I. 

It always seems that some of the core posters have to say something to contradict what I say regardless of what it is. I never said anything about soaping wings or cutting feathers. It is a risk to let out an adult bird. Life is full of risks. Nothing is 100 percent. I would guess it is a question of are you a flyer or a keeper? I have been referred to as an expert and an asset to the site and now I get this.....


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

velo99, Renee mentioned that her post was not refering to any one person in particular.
You have your point of view as a breeder and we have ours as rehabbers. To us even one lost, injured or starved bird is one too many to take the risk.
I have a couple of lost racing birds, they are perfectly happy and are amazing pets that show no desire to go out.

Reti


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

velo99 said:


> * *Before you guys started this thread perhaps you should go back and re read some of my posts a little more carefully. *
> 
> I am a respected experienced pigeon breeder. I don`t just throw things out there I think will work. I have given detailed information about which birds can be homed and which cannot. All of the info I post is based on years of experience both mine and that of flyers way more experienced than I.
> 
> ...


Velo99,
I'm not posting to state pros or cons on this subject as my pigeons are rescued nonreleasables. 
What I would like to ask is, if you could post the links to some of your posts you are referring to?  

** From my perspective, I don't see where anyone in particular was targeted.
No names were mentioned, rather general statements/opinions were made.

I received a beautiful 'fancy' pigeon a couple years ago that was clearly thrown to the streets because he had a neurological disorder. The reason I say this, is because that poor pigeon couldn't have walked arcoss the street, let alone fly. 

Please note: I'm not claiming *every* 'fancier' does this, but obviously some do & from a rescuers point of view, it's disturbing. 

Cindy


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

*Time out -- enough*

It's getting personal here. 
Step back. 
Context is everything.


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## Pegasus (Feb 6, 2007)

*May I say my opinion*

Generally speaking I dont like to cut/tape pigeon wings but others do this for the best reason and some just do this for the heck of it, I honestly taped the wings of the Lumachi pigeons that I got from Ellen, I did this for them not to hurt themselves flying, Im sure some people in here knows what I meant about new birds flying all over the loft, I did this until they are settled in my loft (was that a wrong doing) now that I know they are settled and breeding I took the tapes off, I am not speaking for the wrong doing of others but I dont think I did something wrong, I careless what others think why I did this, NY to CA is a long way home so I rather enjoy my pair of Lumachis than for them getting out by accident and find their way home from this distance, I say accident because I dont have the sophisticated loft, I wish I have an acre of land to build my loft but for now I dont so I made a simple and small loft good to house less than 30 birds, I cant say what others will do, if they think its right for them to do but for others its a wrong doing, I have no control or can not teach others to do what they want to do for their birds, it can be right or wrong as long as they are NOT culling the bird/s, thats not a problem for me, I like to speak for my own and dont worry what others think, I am not so perfect to do all things right, I think some people are sensitive and theres nothing wrong with that, life is too short to stress yourself. Dont be upset or disapponted about my words just want to express how I feel. Apologies to others who might think this is too much for them...


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Pegasus said:


> *life is too short to stress yourself.*


Amen to that!! 
A recent experience of this nearly did me in.  
A combination of things,* stress* included, left me with a BP reading of 195/105. That was a real wake up call for me. I'm still dealing with the repercussions of it.  

As you say, "Life is to short."

Cindy


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