# Problem with Neighbor



## SerendipityCA (May 2, 2008)

This guy who lives in the other lightwell on the third floor emailed me tonight to complain about the pigeons driving him nuts. He and his wife are in a studio so their one main room has thin glass windows right on the lightwell and the hear everything that goes on in other apartments. They're on the top floor...He says they had babies and they squeak ALL THE TIME and the parents are also annoying.

His fire escape is open and overhanging with slats, I can't believe that they had babies out in the open on his fire escape (he didn't tell me where the babies were). Also, the babies outside my window don't squeak unless their parents are going to feed them - I only hear them for a minute or two several times a day. But then, my window isn't open, and only my kitchen and bathroom are on the fire escape, and those are the rooms I spend the least amount of time in. But my desk is just outside the kitchen so you'd think I'd hear them when I'm working, and I just don't very often (and I have to say, I enjoy it when I do).

He basically wanted me to help him but when I asked him to wait until the babies fledged, and said I was going away for 10 days on Monday, he said "Too bad, I'm going to call the manager."

I wrote back and asked him if I could come over tomorrow and check out the situation.

I certainly hope he's not complaining about the noise MY babies make - I'm one lightwell over, separated by a LOT of building, and two stories down. But sound travels up, especially in lightwells, I guess. And it's also quite possible there's another nest on his lightwell...the pigeons did used to hang out over there as well as on my lightwell.

I told him if they scare the adults away the babies will starve.

Crap, I'm going away on Monday and JAMMED between now and then. 

Advice?


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## plamenh (Aug 11, 2006)

Go and check how old are babies, so you know how long it will take to fly. Tell him exactly so he knows and try to involve his wife too. Play on her motherly instincts. Explain them that there is not danger of disease.
If nothing helps, try to find someone to take care of the baby. Your neighbors have their rights and confrontation will not help.
My neighbor wanted me to take down 50 years old oak tree because leaves are messing his garden. Instead of telling him to go and jump to the river, I told him that in my culture oak trees are sacred and it will be like killing member of my family. He was apologizing and we are still friends.


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## SerendipityCA (May 2, 2008)

This guy HAS been my friend. Or at least, I have been HIS friend. He turns to me whenever he needs help. I helped him protest his rent increase - successfully. I explain things to him that he doesn't understand (he's not American though he is well-educated and fluent in English). I was the only witness at his wedding at City Hall.

However, he apparently emailed me because he wanted instant results, and because I cannot guarantee that, he is going to the building manager who initially responded to his complaints by installing mesh. It was only when I anonymously called the Fire Department and they came out and removed the mesh that the pigeons moved back in. (he doesn't know I'm the reason the mesh was removed)

I suppose I started this by getting the mesh removed, though I don't regret it because it was a hazard in case of fire - both impeding the fire department from accessing a possible fire from the roof, and impeding one means of escape for the tenants.

Each time I write back asking him to wait, and offering to help, he repeats that he is going to get in touch with the landlord. He doesn't expect the landlord to move quickly but he doesn't know that he won't. I think my "friend" is enjoying watching how desperate I am becoming in my emails. I don't know, but I'm not going to reply to him. I'll just check out his lightwell as best I can and see what I can do. 

Does anybody know if it's possible to relocate babies or will the adults abandon the nest?


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## SerendipityCA (May 2, 2008)

PS I am going away on Monday for 10 days. I have someone housesitting who knows about the babies on my own fire escape, and apparently nobody on my fire escape is bothered by our babies. But I'm not sure.


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## plamenh (Aug 11, 2006)

It is not possible to relocate babies without parents abandoning them.
E-mails are good way of communication, but they have no personality. I suggest eye-to-eye conversation with your neighbor. 
This way you can analyze his reaction and minimize chances for rejection.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

The good part of all this is tha he did contact you first rather than the manager.
I agree that eye to eye contact would be a good next step.
It is true that the nest cannot be relocated.
You may need to remove the babies though and find someone to foster them. 
It sounds like it's difficult to replace future eggs with wooden ones, is that correct? Please do whenever possible.
I know this is a reaaly painful situation, on many different levels and I wish there was an easy solution for you. Thank goodess, for the Pigeon's sake, you are there.


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## SerendipityCA (May 2, 2008)

Yeah, i'll try to work with him. I went up on the roof and looked down, couldn't see any birds, didn't hear babies.

If there are pigeons in his lightwell they are UNDER the first floor fire escape (in the gap between the fire escape floor and the roof of the garage which juts out into that lightwell. IOW they are in the same place on his lightwell that mine are on my lightwell.

I am emailing him right now to ask whether I can go out and look for sure.

Do they squeal at night? I haven't noticed mine squealing at night, but as soon as it got to be daylight they were squeaking, and I think they only do that when a parent shows up and they think they're going to be fed.

My own pigeons on my lightwell laid two eggs and they didn't hatch. I was completely surprised last week to hear squeaking and discovered that they had TWO babies a couple of feet from the nest - they faked me out! I don't think putting wooden eggs in the nest would have helped since they clearly knew they were duds and just laid more eggs two feet away. I was flummoxed by that.

I'm going to tell him that the babies will not survive if he scares the parents away and I can't relocate them. Babies take 5 weeks to fledge, right? So another 3 weeks and they can mesh off the bottom so they can't get back there, and spikes on the railings. And he can shoo the parents away after that.


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

i think you should remind him that when he needed your help you were there for him and you would like the same consideration and it would be a personal favor to you to leave them alone.
they go to bed at nightfall, that's bs on his part trying to exaggerate the situation


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

SerendipityCA said:


> My own pigeons on my lightwell laid two eggs and they didn't hatch. I was completely surprised last week to hear squeaking and discovered that they had TWO babies a couple of feet from the nest - they faked me out! I don't think putting wooden eggs in the nest would have helped since they clearly knew they were duds and just laid more eggs two feet away. I was flummoxed by that.


Usually they will sit on the wooden eggs for the period of time that they would have to hatch them. After a while, if the eggs don't hatch, they will of course, have two more eggs and start over again. But they will normally try to hatch the wooden ones, and don't realize that they are fake.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

altgirl35 said:


> i think you should remind him that when he needed your help you were there for him and you would like the same consideration and it would be a personal favor to you to leave them alone.
> they go to bed at nightfall, that's bs on his part trying to exaggerate the situation


I agree with this. They don't squeak at night. He's just trying to make it worse than it is.


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

I hope everything works out. I agree talking face to face with him is likely your best bet. Good luck!


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## SerendipityCA (May 2, 2008)

Hi all, thanks for the advice. I went over to his place today and he let me out onto the fire escape. He's on the 3rd floor of three, and like my fire escape on the other lightwell, there's the roof of the garage under the first floor fire escape to create a nice little "safe zone" - except mine has astroturf on it so it's even more private.

His 3rd floor ledge is completely clean of poop. The second floor has SOME poop and the first floor has a lot, especially on the "roof" of the garage just under the fire escape.

I climbed down to the first floor and peered through and didn't see a nest or any birds. And, we did hear squeaking but it was the squeaking of MY babies on the other lightwell 30 feet away and two floors down. Sound really travels. However, he said that didn't sound like what he usually hears, so I climbed down again and REALLY inspected this time. The woman whose kitchen and bathroom windows are on the corner of the fire escape was there and saw me. She's a kleptomaniac. Another person whom I've helped with various things over the years, she was always nice to me but I heard stories about her being caught red-handed stealing from other people. And come to recall, every time I was schlepping boxes of eBay inventory to the elevator at her end of the first floor hallway, she always seemed to be hanging around, real friendly-like. Some of the boxes were open without tops ... I'd make multiple trips. I'm sure she was stealing from me, I just didn't know it. Anyway, I caught her red-handed one time, I had put some clothes in the elevator and ran down to get my car in the back carport area, and she got into the elevator before I could call it down, and I followed it up to the first floor and she came out of the elevator with my clothes in her hand! I politely said "those are mine" and she acted all surprised like "how did these get into my hand?" and said "They are?" and handed them to me. Like, "Oh, I thought the elevator fairy left me a present." B**TCH!

Anyway, typical of somebody caught doing something wrong, SHE now hates ME! The other week we were getting our mail at the mailbox at the same time and she muttered "What a *****." When I didn't react, she said it louder.

I cannot tell you the times she has turned to me for help and I've always helped her. I collected $25 each from all the tenants to hire a lawyer once, and when he gave us bad advice I told him not to bill us and I gave everybody back their money. She said to me years later "Yeah, and you kept the $25." I said "Would you like to see the canceled check you cashed?" And I even visited her in the hospital when she had surgery.

Oh well, no good deed goes unpunished.

I only mentioned that because I was standing right outside her kitchen window and she acted all suspicious and said "What are you doing?" I was tempted to say "Looking for my eBay merchandise" but I just said "Looking for pigeons." I don't want her to know I am a friend of pigeons because who knows what her spite would motivate her to do.

Anyway, long digression there, but during the second inspection I was very thorough. I lifted up a planter and scared a pidgie out from under it. It was DEFINITELY a baby! Pretty large, I'll check the photos and say how old he looks...but he was so scared, poor baby, he ran out from under the fire escape onto the section of roof that has nothing over it, and looked ready to jump. So I quickly went back upstairs and he scuttled back under the fire escape to the corner where he has lived all his life.

My neighbor was nice. But adamant about contacting the landlord. He says that the landlord won't do anything right away, and in the meantime the babies will fledge. I hope he's right. I asked him to wait until I get back on the 3rd but he said he wouldn't.

He and his wife have UNBEARABLE noise from all of their neighbors, so to him the pigeons are the final straw. He says they fight and flap their wings at each other and vocalize, and the fluttering of wings as they come and go is really annoying.

Sigh.


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## SerendipityCA (May 2, 2008)

Just checked the photos of a baby pigeon growing up. It's kind of hard to judge what size the bird is in the photos, relative to the one I saw. He was funny looking. He had a chubby body, the color of a mature pigeon, then what looked like a bald chest and neck, then these bright yellow feathers all over his head. None of the photos of the baby at any age looked exactly like him, but I think he's in the 18-21 day range...I didn't get a good look at his beak however, to see how bumpy it was.

So, he's got AT LEAST a couple of weeks before he fledges, I'd guess.


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## plamenh (Aug 11, 2006)

My advice is move out of that place, you are surrounded by freeks.


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## Pigeon lower (Oct 23, 2007)

plamenh said:


> My advice is move out of that place, you are surrounded by freeks.


No comment......


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

LOL! i agreee with this!!!


plamenh said:


> My advice is move out of that place, you are surrounded by freeks.


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