# Guessing the sex of a few pigeons



## christispigeons (May 28, 2015)

I have been trying to guess a few of my birds I am unsure of their sex. Can you give me your guesses? I have put them in order so I know which picture is what birds. So if you guess, put it in order of 1-4 on each set.
Thanks. A few of my more amorous males are easy to tell!


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## christispigeons (May 28, 2015)

Second set.


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## christispigeons (May 28, 2015)

Last one pigeon. I think I know which ones are male and female, but I am new and am hoping to get answers from the experts.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Wow! Thanks for pics lined up. Beautiful birds
Some can tell who's what gender but that may not be 100% reliable. Its the behaviour the keeper can observe which tells genders apart but at this age birds can even fool their keepers too. Same sexes do pair up. In my loft young males pair up often. Also birds at this age aren't sure of their gender roles and may play roles of opposite gender. A cock could act like a hen and a hen can pretend to be a cock.
Giving them time and wait for when they pair up would be what I would do. They will start breeding at/after 7 months of age. But ya! Young birds may not turn out to be succesful parents. They need to be given few rounds of fake eggs to sit on and then letting them raise one squab at a time for the first time is what I do especially when both the birds in a pair are young.

Bird no.1 in both first and second posts are hens. Are they?


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Hard work this time Christispigeon. Lol
I am struggling to find my own bird's gender these days.
I have been guessing it "he" since it was squab but now he is reacting like "she" , he bows down when I pet him just like hens do. Also he is very much interested in my cock i.e his father these days, tries to get fed by him. 
I am afraid if some day "he" lays an egg. Lol


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Anyone who is sure by looking at pictures is fooling themselves. 
And they can breed at like 5 months of age. Better to take the eggs and replace with fake till they mature some. Just give them time, and they will reveal their gender to you. You may be surprised at some. LOL.


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## christispigeons (May 28, 2015)

Like I said, only one is truly shows his amorous side. Our little "Peppy La Pu!" It will be spring before I let any of them hatch eggs....Fake ones already on hand! I am just curious as to what I have ......
My uncle (who is 80 and has been raising pigeons since he was 17) said there is an old wives tale about a pigeons toes, on one sex the ones are not al the same length and the other sex they are all even when you hold them together. I haven't checked this out on Peppy yet. LOL But he also says behavior is the only sure way.
I have released 5 miles out now for 2 days in a row. All 10 arrive back together just after I get home. I have tried to attach a video, but haven't been able to.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

They are doing great training runs. Keep it up! Hope you've included probiotics, organic acv and vitamins and mineral supplements to their diet on weekly basis. Their bodies are growing and need proper nutrition. Is the second bird in first post of about four months of age?
If these were mature birds then their genders could be guessed by seeing their physical characteristics. There are many theories about guessing their genders and gender of most birds speak for itself,its some birds that confuse. Try the toe thing but it has never worked with me. O_O


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Toe method hasn't worked for me too, when I had my pair and I knew who is male and female, I tried that toe thing when I read it on Internet but my both birds had similar length toes so it seemed useless. 
It is hard to guess gender but sometimes some pigeons can be easily guessed like my cock, his behavior shows it everytime that he is a cock may be because he is adult and have a mate so it reflects this much. 
Well Christispigeon , you will come to know gradually who is who. 
Glad to know that your birds are doing good in training. Would love to see the video. Have you tried it to upload on YouTube and paste the same link here?


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## christispigeons (May 28, 2015)

No I haven't tried downloading on utube Kitty. I will give it a try.
Jazz all 10 pigeons are 4 - 4 1/2 months.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Hens mature sexually at 5 months of age and cocks at 7. But right now at about four months of age its time when they go through their first moult. They will start from their heads and will replace the feathers with adult plumage. Moulting indicates their health. The more a pigeon moults the healthier it is. As a keeper I suggest you to help them through the phase, by giving them(which I know you do,saw the pics) regular baths, calcium, a little extra protein and rest. And this is the time when they're prone to external parasites.


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## christispigeons (May 28, 2015)

Jass, yes my pigeons are very happy. They get probiotics with vitamins in their water 2-3 times a weeks, ACV 1-2 times, have oyster shells and red grit available at all times, and clean bath water available to bath in daily. They come out of their coop at 6;30 and into their attached avery just as the sun is rising on their own to start their day. I sure wish I could figure out how to post the videos I have of their releases. It is beautiful!


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Happy to see them well relaxed  
You are taking really good care of them. 
I didn't upload any video on YouTube yet because of not having speedy net but people do it easily. When you upload, you can copy that url and paste it here. If you still face any problems, I can try to do it for you if you send me the video on my email.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

They look great.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Thanks for sharing pics, they look awesome relaxing on perches.


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## christispigeons (May 28, 2015)

Kitty thanks for the offer I will get back to you after tomorrow. Work has been crazy. 
PS my birds are now doing great at 10 miles!


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Anytime Christispigeon... 
I will try whatever I can do


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

10 miles.....that's great!


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## LeeLu (Sep 23, 2012)

christispigeons said:


> I have been trying to guess a few of my birds I am unsure of their sex. Can you give me your guesses? I have put them in order so I know which picture is what birds. So if you guess, put it in order of 1-4 on each set.
> Thanks. A few of my more amorous males are easy to tell!


okay, i'll play....

Of the first 4...only one is a male...the first guy! His head on top is round, not flat...he looks young not fully developed, when he gets older his neck feathers will fill in and be fater than the females.

last 3 are female. Females have flat heads and small beaks...


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## LeeLu (Sep 23, 2012)

christispigeons said:


> Second set.


2nd set, first three are hens, the top of their heads are 'flat'
the last guy is a male, top of his head is round...again, he is
young, his neck feathers will become fuller, and prickerly is
the way i see them...in otherwards, they don't lay flat and smooth
over the neck, the bottom edge of the neck feathers don't lay flat 
....when they strut, they almost get on their tip-toes, and their neck
feathers flare out as they strut around the female...

you'll soon learn the differences..right now they are too yound
the males coo and strut...the hens answer with their coo offer up 
their beak for a "kiss"....if they are interested in him! 

when they get older, and paired up....looks like you only have 2 males
so it will be interesting to watch which hens win the males....otherwise
you might consider getting a few more males....they will be fights for sure!

Enjoy!


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## LeeLu (Sep 23, 2012)

LeeLu said:


> 2nd set, first three are hens, the top of their heads are 'flat'
> the last guy is a male, top of his head is round...again, he is
> young, his neck feathers will become fuller, and prickerly is
> the way i see them...in otherwards, they don't lay flat and smooth
> ...


notice my avatar....she is a hen...do you see the flatness of the top of her head...this pic was taken when she was barely 6 months old.


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## christispigeons (May 28, 2015)

I tried looking for a picture of your Avatar to compare. 
I sure hope you're a bad guesser or the pictures don't reveal enough. You say 2 females and 8 males!!! OH NO! I guess in a few months we will see who is what. It is kind of fun guessing right now though. Thanks for playing LeeLu!


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## LeeLu (Sep 23, 2012)

christispigeons said:


> I tried looking for a picture of your Avatar to compare.
> I sure hope you're a bad guesser or the pictures don't reveal enough. You say 2 females and 8 males!!! OH NO! I guess in a few months we will see who is what. It is kind of fun guessing right now though. Thanks for playing LeeLu!


no, i say 2 males and 6 females...you only showeld 8 pics...

actually, that should work out well for you, you'll have 2 pair, for breeding leaving four hens to fly ...don't let your breeders fly, keep them safe inside. So, in a couple of months if you allow the 2 pair to breed, you increase your flock by 4 ....suggest only breed each pair 3 times a year...the first clutch is best one, leave the 2nd clutch be wooden eggs....gives the parents time to rest.

this way your leaders (original 4 flyers (hens)) will teach the young ones the way....my breeder told me never to fly less than 10...unless you know the land. Hawks, crows and other preditors will hit your flock if it's too small and kill your birds. The more eyes you have watching for preditors as they fly the distance; the safer the flying flock becomes. As they fly, they look out after each other, warning of danger when they see it.

Hope this helps, i think you are in good shape!


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## christispigeons (May 28, 2015)

Oh Ok. I can seem some of what you see. Some might be the angle because a few that look flat on here, actually look more rounded when watching them. What about the last individual one? Male? 
I know they are all too young at this point, but it is fun watching and guessing. Again, thanks for playing. 
Here's a few pictures of them coming in after their 10 mile flights.
And before anyone thinks from the dramatic sky, I was flying them in rain, it wasn't raining. Just looked threatening. I know better than that. I am trying to get a good morning flight in every morning because on Sept. 1st, it's dove season and they won't be able to get out and fly for the entire month of Sept. Poor babies!


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## LeeLu (Sep 23, 2012)

christispigeons said:


> Second set.


ANSWER: Yes a male. You asked about the last individual one you posted on page one. i blew up the pic, there is a shadow over
the head this dove in the last pic....when you blow it up you can clearly see the head is more round, and his neck is thicker/fuller, and his neck feathers are becoming prickley, definitely male traits. The other three hens are easy to see the flat head...i blew up their pics too.

what you want to do is when they get 6 months old, they are considered adults. measure their wingspan. i have a piece of clear thick plastic measured off to 13", 13 1/4", 13 1/2"..one wing and double it. You want a solid 27 to 27 1/2 inch wing span, which is desirable. The 9th primary feather should be no shorter than 1-1/4" than the length of the tail feathers...the step in the wingspan (curve of the botom of the wingspan) should not drop off more than 5/8" The overal body is balanced when standing.

The last pictures you posted are beautiful....i see a pair, possible in both, they seem to fly together, only you would know which ones these are...Can you see them flying together, are they together in their coop?


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## LeeLu (Sep 23, 2012)

This is what my breeder does with his racing pigeions. 

He puts food out first about 1 mile out, from the coop....he takes his birds to the food, lets them eat and he drives back to the coop. They usually beat him home. He moves the food out farther and farther. In the morning he lets his birds out of the coop to fly to their food, they then fly back to the coop. All he has to do is keep moving the food farther out and keep food iin their open feeding area.

he also does funerals and wedding releases....he has over 200 doves, his father was a breeder, when Tony was 6 years old, he began helping his father breed doves....Tony is a treasure trouve of dove knowledge...he taught me alot; and i've taught him what i know...difference is my doves live inside with me, so i know their every trait, i know what each one likes to eat, i know the ones that need more attention, and the ones that are shy and untrusting. They are amazing to watch...i know you will enjoy your doves; you'll figure out their sexes...when you have chicks, come back and i'll ell ya how to sex 4 day old chicks....i've become very good at sexing!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Don't be so sure.....................experts make wrong guesses.


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## christispigeons (May 28, 2015)

But Jay it is fun guessing. Kind of like a game. Some you win, some you lose. It will be interesting come spring how many males and females and how many will pair up. Maybe none of my females will like the males..... I am hoping to get a few more in the next month to add to my 2015 new (initial) group. I already have plans for my new breeding loft. SHHHH! My husband thinks we have enough for right now..... HA HA he's too funny!
As far as the upcoming seasons.... is it ok to fly them (after dove season) as long as it is not raining and they are not sitting on nests? I would think it would be hard on them to be cooped up all winter and not be allowed to fly. At least loft flying or short releases.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Guess it depends on how the hawks are at those times. Here, they are bad come fall and winter. Lots of the songbirds leave, and the hawks will hang around more where people have pigeons, so there are lots more hawk strikes then. Not safe to fly at all.


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## christispigeons (May 28, 2015)

Thanks Jay. I will ask my uncle and a few others what they do and how Hawks are in our area. I am not willing to take the risk if it's like where you are. This would be a good time to get them more
bonded with me😀


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## LeeLu (Sep 23, 2012)

Jay3 said:


> Don't be so sure.....................experts make wrong guesses.


ha ha ha, i am sure jay....the difference between the experts and me....my dove family lives inside with me....eerrr most of the time. i know every little detail about each one...and sexing....was a challenge, it's an art, i've pretty well done my homework on sexing. It begins when the first egg is dropped. i put a pencil dot on the egg, that's a male 99% of the time. The second egg is a hen. i keep a log of the date/time the hen drops her first and second eggs, so i know exactly when they will hatch, it's so orderly...even their mating is orderly, it's the oldest male mates with the oldest available hen....just like clockwork it happens that way. i guess i've learned to "dance in the rain!"  Thanks for all you do for everyone on this board!


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## christispigeons (May 28, 2015)

LeeLu I will "play" with your guessing when I have babies. I am enjoying every (well almost every) part of my pigeons. My family calls me the Crazy Pigeon Lady." I call it being dedicated! Its also been my mental therapy while working in a job that is a black hole! And hoping it will also be a good side job income when I retire in 3 years. But if not, it is feeding my soul with positive energy!


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

I have to see how Leelu's guesses are going to work and then I will work out on mine coz my guesses are weird always, not about just pigeons but about everything even in college with multiple choice questions, I could hardly give it a right guess so I stopped playing. Lol. Because of negative marking


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## christispigeons (May 28, 2015)

That's why this is so fun! Its all for fun, no bad marks or grades! Still working on a video with multiple releases. Private email me your email if I can only accomplish sending it this way.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

I know. Lol. Even I like playing games and appreciate you but I can better guess when they are a bit older but to accompany you I will guess right away but then don't expect me to guess right, rather expect mine as wild .  
Going out for some hours, will guess when back home. 
And yes, I PMd you my email on the same day, didn't you get that?


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## LeeLu (Sep 23, 2012)

christispigeons said:


> LeeLu I will "play" with your guessing when I have babies. I am enjoying every (well almost every) part of my pigeons. My family calls me the Crazy Pigeon Lady." I call it being dedicated! Its also been my mental therapy while working in a job that is a black hole! And hoping it will also be a good side job income when I retire in 3 years. But if not, it is feeding my soul with positive energy!


Christi, you couldn't have picked a more rewarding hobby for relief of a black hole job! Doves are sooooo beautiful and loving, Any married couple only has to mimick a male and female pair of doves, and their marriage problems would disappear; they are so loving, just watching them care for each other is such a joy. The gentleness, and loving attitude is catching and really brings sunshine to your soul. i know your gonna get soooooo attached to your chicks, ya just can't help it, they become like a second family; when you get that close..and us moms just can't help ourselves! Keep us informed, when your males pair up, would love to hear about it! Beware of kitty's, they kill doves!


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

You sure do have beautiful pigeons and I will play your guessing game. Now get you I am just guessing..lol That Leelu sounds like she knows what she is talking about and our dear Jay 3 is a naysayer--lol lol.. I'm a idiot for guessing....Here goes. First four: Female, Male, Male, Male. Second four: Female, Male, Male, Female. Last one---Male. Those birds in flight are just beautiful with a beautiful picture as well. Thanks for the fun..c.hert


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## christispigeons (May 28, 2015)

The pictures I downloaded here are of them coming home after a 10 mile flight. And LeeLu I am SO attached! Today was the first day I haven't flown them for a long time because its opening day of dove season. When I fed them this morning they started eating and then many stopped eating as I walked away and looked out through the wire doors at me like, "hey where are you going we haven't flown yet and why did you feed us now??" I felt the same. Its going to be along month!


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

OK here we go:
First set(first pic) :
1) female 2) male
3) male 4) female

Second set:
1) female 2) male
3) female 4) female 

And yes the last one is male

So you get 4 males and 5 females. 
And I must tell you secretly, let Leelu be confident in guessing but I see it over confidence which isn't going to work. Haha


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## christispigeons (May 28, 2015)

The "guess's" so far:
Me 1st set = M, F, F, F 2nd set = M, F, F, F last = M
LeeLu M, F, F, F F, F, F, M M
Kitty M, F, F, F M, F, F, M M

We are all three guessing 7 of them the same. The 1st and 4th in the second set are the only ones we differ. As for the 4th one that I guess is female, maybe it is the angle. Her head appears more flat when looking at her, but not in this picture. This one is the friendliest and is the leader. First in the coop after each flight and appears the most mature. Are those male traits? If so, Sally will need to be renamed to Sal!

This has been fun. Thanks guys for playing. The next few months will tell what they really are.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Can't wait to see the result


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## LeeLu (Sep 23, 2012)

christispigeons said:


> The "guess's" so far:
> Me 1st set = M, F, F, F 2nd set = M, F, F, F last = M
> LeeLu M, F, F, F F, F, F, M M
> Kitty M, F, F, F M, F, F, M M
> ...


christi he he he he you posted this for my guess: 
LeeLu M, F, F, F F, F, F, M and last M
and C.Hert's guess? did you see it? 

ok, i only identified 8 jpg doves....to be clear, again, i want to identify each one by jpg i mean, to avoid confusion i want to be sure my guess is for the right pic you posted. he he he j

*first set of 4 pics*

FullSizeRender (8).jpg
This dove is a HEN

FullSizeRender (9).jpg 
This dove is a HEN

FullSizeRender (3).jpg
This dove is a HEN

FullSizeRender (7).jpg
This dove is a MALE

*second set of 4 pics*

FullSizeRender (10).jpg
This dove is a HEN

FullSizeRender (12).jpg
This dove is a HEN*

FullSizeRender (11).jpg
This dove is a HEN

FullSizeRender (5).jpg 
This dove is a MALE

*c.Hert goes. First four: Female, Male, Male, Male. Second four: Female, Male(*), Male, Female. Last one---Male.

Hert may be right about the second four, second one being Male...the dove is so young, it's beak is thick like a male, and has a small flattening on the head (henny); however his throat is not thick a male trait which is why i believe it;s a hen (maybe too young not fully grown) see the neck of the male in pic 4, which clearly is a male. Is this pic 4 (5 jpg) Sally? Yes males lead the flock, usally the smartest, strongest male leads the family.

Christi, at 4 months, the males start to do a small circular strut; they put their heads down and dance around in a circle, making crying call (cooing)...it's the way they attract hens...yours are old enough to start doing this; another way for you to tell the hens from the males. Hens don't strut, or make any noise to attrack males. The males do all the flirting the hens are attracked to them. So you should be seeing this pre-mating going on in your flock!

Yeah, it's gonna be a long month for them; doves love to fly but it's for their own safety. When you fly them; best brace yourself; you will lose one or so when they fly long distances to whatever danger they run into.....my breeder told me to brace myself for the loss; cause he knows how attached i get to them. When they mate, it's a whole new level of experience with your doves.....you get even closer to them and their chicks!


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

I really did not "cheat" from you fine list---lol lol...I picked the second one out of the second list for being a male because of such a long neck but the beak to me looks like a female---that was a hard one...The beak is large but slender so I decided with a coin toss to be a male...Doves are neat.. I always thought that they were just white pigeons. I gave a helping hand one time to a Ring Neck Dove (Wild) and released it and this summer it came back with a mate to visit my food area. Her name was Mrs. Grouchy and I believe that she and others migrated for the year for I have heard no dove sounds. I am enjoying this thread. lol


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## LeeLu (Sep 23, 2012)

hert..yeah, it's tough sexing when their at the age of Christi's....and #2 of the second set is really tough a coin toss is as good as any guess....ha ha ha...guess we'll know who guessed right in a month or so...lol

---Christi,,,,here is what 'wiki 'on the internet says about sexing homers:

Male and female pigeons (cocks and hens respectively), can be differentiated by physical characteristics of the head, beak, height, and breast, though visual identification of gender by physical characteristics alone can be inaccurate. Males usually stand taller, and have a larger beaks, crops, wattles,[4] and eye ceres (fleshy growth around the eyes), as well as a round head and thicker nape. Females, on the other hand, tend to be shorter with smaller beaks, wattles, and ceres, as well as flatter heads and fuller breasts.

Male and female pigeons also show different behaviours. The "coo" of males is louder and more insistent, especially when courting. Display behaviour also differs between the sexes. Most notably, males often turn 360 degrees with an inflated crop and a loud "coo", to show interest in a female or to defend or discourage another pigeon from entering its territory (usually a nesting box), while females almost never turn full circle, but rather do a 270 degrees back-and-forth rotational motion.

Although the sexual dimorphism in homing pigeons is rather subtle most accomplished breeders of homing pigeons will easily distinguish the genders of this breed (this is not true for all breeds of domestic pigeon; for instance, archangels have males and females looking almost exactly alike).


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

lol
I will bet you a penny on that number two of the second batch that I am right..Why do you call them doves and not homing pigeons? Is that because everybody thinks Doves are released at different affairs. Just wondering ....They sure are small like doves and so pretty. I just have pigeons because any doves I get are wild and just need a helping hand and I set them free again after they get well. Talking about Mourning Doves and Ring Neck Doves. Those Mourning doves are fragile little things. Well one penny is at stake here and if I lose I will mail it wherever you wish...


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## LeeLu (Sep 23, 2012)

c.hert said:


> lol
> I will bet you a penny on that number two of the second batch that I am right..Why do you call them doves and not homing pigeons? Is that because everybody thinks Doves are released at different affairs. Just wondering ....They sure are small like doves and so pretty. I just have pigeons because any doves I get are wild and just need a helping hand and I set them free again after they get well. Talking about Mourning Doves and Ring Neck Doves. Those Mourning doves are fragile little things. Well one penny is at stake here and if I lose I will mail it wherever you wish...


1 penny it is! i am 90% sure it's a hen....so we will see! i

call them doves, because these are the doves Noah loved....i really enjoy them around me...they aren't just pigeons....pigeons can't home....thanks for taking in the wild ones...i tried my best to catch a buch of them that the local shopping center managment was going to poison....i even had animal control helping me... i fed them daily, they'd fly down on the shopping center concrete when they saw my car. i carried food in the trunk and daily would feeed them trying to show them i was "safe." i could get close to them but couldn't net them. Sadly, the shopping center management posioned, after a week of my trying to capture them.... broke my heart! Wild ferrals must know you help them...i believe they communicate by telepathy..so the word is out about your place for help! awesome!


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

You are On=====Get your penny ready...lol


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## LeeLu (Sep 23, 2012)

c.hert said:


> You are On=====Get your penny ready...lol


lol...Checked the pic again...with a flat head, and narrow. small nape (neck), with large breast width and small beak length from waddle to tip of beak...... yeah, pretty sure it's a hen... make my penny a nice new shiny one! lol 

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32941&stc=1&d=1440369874


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

No way----look at those large nostrils...

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32941&stc=1&d=1440369874


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## LeeLu (Sep 23, 2012)

c.hert said:


> No way----look at those large nostrils...
> 
> http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32941&stc=1&d=1440369874


yeah, i saw that, but the beak is tooo short and slim from the nostrils to the tip, and the waddle is not thick enough in height...the head has a shadow over the top, can't really tell how flat it is...

....maybe Christi would be so kind as to provide us another pic of this beauty,  facing front showing the size of the breast, close enough to see the flat head or if it's a round head, A closer look at this beauty's head shape would be the only way i'd could be convinced it's a male instead of a hen!


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## christispigeons (May 28, 2015)

After all these fun playful posts I was already going to post a few more of this particular one. I am not home today, I will try tomorrow.


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## LeeLu (Sep 23, 2012)

christispigeons said:


> After all these fun playful posts I was already going to post a few more of this particular one. I am not home today, I will try tomorrow.


Thank you Christi! i'll check back in a couple of days....no rush! Thanks for helping...i just know i am gonna win that nice shinny penny from hert! 

Noticed the pic of your coop and avary...yep, i know they are gonna love to get out and fly...do you have a covered patio maybe that you could enclose with cheap bird netting round about so they can fly at least 10 feet? Might give them a little bit of exercise in this month...bird netting is cheap at lowes...around $5 for lots of yards of netting, it's designed to cover/throw over treetops to keep birds off trees. So it's strong enough to contain your birds inside an area.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

It's body build is fragile but but I don't care whether it is a flat head or not for its a male. That netting sounds like a good idea. Look at that long neck..and that wide upper part of the beak with those big nostrils for air to be more robust in getting good food for its baby..I do have a shiny penny aside just in case...lol lol


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## LeeLu (Sep 23, 2012)

c.hert said:


> It's body build is fragile but but I don't care whether it is a flat head or not for its a male. That netting sounds like a good idea. Look at that long neck..and that wide upper part of the beak with those big nostrils for air to be more robust in getting good food for its baby..I do have a shiny penny aside just in case...lol lol


The netting is what i would use, IF when she lets her doves out before she feeds them, they hang around their coop waiting for her to feed them...then i'd just let them out to fly awhile...otherwise, if they roam off, i'd sure use the netting to keep them where i can see them. i've lost a few just letting them hang around, they were too young and hadn't learned to trap good enough to let them out. 

yeah, from the pic she gave us, it's really hard to tell i agree with you about the big nostrils, and you bet the wide beak at the waffle is a male trait...that's another way to tell the chicks...a day or so old, the male has that wide beak at the nostrils...

keep my shinny penny on the ready....i'm 90% sure it's a hen. we'll see the gender better when Christie posts another pic. later


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Hope I win the penny but with these birds one never knows---I brought a pigeon into the vet for help and named her Mr. Ugly for medical records and asked the vet to get an xray on him and sure enough he came back on the message phone and assured me she was a female because he found an egg in the uterus. So one never knows just like that nay sayer Jay3 says because it is hard to tell. Jay 3 should get in this bet as well and pick a sex for the birdie and team up with you and maybe even me if she thinks it might be a male . Let that Kiddy and Cwebster join as well as Spirit Wings for she is the one that saved my finch--doing well by the way. Lets have a real contest and have everyone put up a penny to join.. Let the owner of this thread pick a side as well but let her not cheat for she owns the birdies. If she cheats let her stay out but let her make a claim on what she thinks this young dove is ( Homing pigeon). Lets have fun here..c.hert I say it is a Male...And don't forget that Jass SamOPlay for he is on this thread too.


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## christispigeons (May 28, 2015)

c.hert I did make my guesses. Look at the ones I compiled with LeeLu and Kitty. The first ones were from "ME" that's me. So my guess is in for that shiny penny. 
AND c.hert I would not cheat. This is becoming too fun to ruin it. I have the band numbers for each bird, along with the order. I don't know why I didn't take a picture of the 10th bird. But I will... so watch for it when I send a few more pictures of the one all the fuss is about. 
So stay tuned.


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## christispigeons (May 28, 2015)

OK so we have this right, now that we are betting for the nice shiny penny. copy and paste any corrections on a new post if this is wrong. 
LeeLu originally on Aug 28th you said your order was MFFF FFFM and you posted on Sept 1 the 9th one was a male.... just to be clear. Ha Ha So check and I will put your last entry here. Copy and paste then make a change if you need. Then this will be the final vote.


Lee Lu........1st set = H, H, H, M 2nd set = H, H, H, M last = M
Kitty...........1st set = H, M, M, H 2nd set = H, M, H, H last = M
c.hert.........1st set = H, M, M, M 2nd set = H, M, M, H last = M
Christi........1st set = M, H, H, H 2nd set = M, H, H, H last = M


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## hamlet (Oct 26, 2004)

Hello. I sometime call the white ones a *pigeondove.*


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

My goodness you are a accountant...lol lol


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## LeeLu (Sep 23, 2012)

c.hert said:


> Hope I win the penny but with these birds one never knows---I brought a pigeon into the vet for help and named her Mr. Ugly for medical records and asked the vet to get an xray on him and sure enough he came back on the message phone and assured me she was a female because he found an egg in the uterus. So one never knows just like that nay sayer Jay3 says because it is hard to tell. Jay 3 should get in this bet as well and pick a sex for the birdie and team up with you and maybe even me if she thinks it might be a male . Let that Kiddy and Cwebster join as well as Spirit Wings for she is the one that saved my finch--doing well by the way. Lets have a real contest and have everyone put up a penny to join.. Let the owner of this thread pick a side as well but let her not cheat for she owns the birdies. If she cheats let her stay out but let her make a claim on what she thinks this young dove is ( Homing pigeon). Lets have fun here..c.hert I say it is a Male...And don't forget that Jass SamOPlay for he is on this thread too.


EXCELLENT SUGGESTION c.hert!

i agree, the more that play the more fun it becomes, please don't be shy, it's just a game, we all win for playing....it's all for fun cause we all know in reality sexing young homing doves is just a guess anyway.. so come on you guys, jump in and play with us---- post your guesses--- it's all in fun for that shinny penny!


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

On post 57 all our selections are regrouped and this makes it easier to keep up with and they are all different and interesting but I tell you one thing I just can;t wait to get my shiny penny from you LeeLu..lol lol Need to go and get busy today--lots to do bye.


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## christispigeons (May 28, 2015)

*New contest picture of bird #10*

Ok LeeLu, Kitty and c.hert,
Here is bird #10 that I had not included in the first set of pictures. Make your guess on him and I will re-tally the guesses. This one is named "Santa." If any of you followed my story of the birds that got stuck in my chimney, he is the one stuck the longest. After 7 days of no food or water, our wonderful Fire Department came over and rescued him. 
So make your guess on if he is Mr. or Mrs. Santa Claus.


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## christispigeons (May 28, 2015)

*Shinny Penny*

LeeLu and c.hert,
This is #2 from the second set that you are betting that shiny penny on. I took several angles since you asked for them. 
Are you now more or less confident in your guess?


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Thanks for that effort and its a male it even has a blue band on it..lol Can't wait to take that shiny penny from that "old Leelu"...lol Thanks christispigeons...


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## christispigeons (May 28, 2015)

You two are so funny! What about the first set of pictures of the 10th bird in the group? What's your guess? If you guess male for the last one, as I am, you will be guessing 3 hens. Not good for my coop if that is true. 7 males and 3 hens?????? Lots of drama!


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

I think Santa is a female..


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Lol. I think Santa is a male 
And 2nd bird from 2nd set... It looks like a female now from first pic  too bad. 
But first impression is last impression, I will continue with my previous weird guess that is "male" even if you say that laid an egg, I will say exceptions do happen, may be male can lay eggs sometimes


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## LeeLu (Sep 23, 2012)

c.hert said:


> Thanks for that effort and its a male it even has a blue band on it..lol Can't wait to take that shiny penny from that "old Leelu"...lol Thanks christispigeons...


not so fast c.hert. This pic CONFIRMS this dove is a female!!!! make it a nice new shinny penny please! 

www dot pigeons dotbiz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33072&d=1441518123

she has a flat head,
she has a thin nape (neck)
she has a wide breast area

she is gonna be a petite dove....

Christi, #10 dove, is Mr. Santa! He has a thick waddle (i call it a mustache)...the thickness of the beak gives strength for feeding babies...once the chicks are over a week old...dad takes over the majority feeding times till they are one month old. Mr. Santa has a thick nape, unlike #2 she has a thin nape. They are both gonna be small huh...they have the stance of a Strasser Homer, they are short/stout and lean forward like strasser's (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strasser_pigeon) this is why the neck being thicker is key i think. Janssens when they stand, are tall, and have the shape of a pear.
. 
thanks for taking more pics of #2.....she is gonna sure be a beauty... i have only one like her, small and petite, but she is FIERCE....she won't let me get near her nest, she pecks at my hands when i bring her food and a cup of water...no way she wants me cleaning her nest! Also, she has a very high pitch coo....i can always tell her apart from the other doves...when she coos and her mate answers, there is no doubt it's her. She is a sweetie! Very loving, on her man! He follows her around everywhere she goes...very cute to watch them together.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Thin neck will be covered with feathers soon 
I have a fledgling who I assumed a cock but very thin neck and he is now getting feathers all around. Yayyy
c. hert we are going to win!!! Can we share the penny pls. Lol


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## christispigeons (May 28, 2015)

~~~~Hello LeeLu, c.hert and Kitty~~~~
I haven't forgot about the guessing game of my 10 white pigeons. I know the lucky winner of the SHINY PENNY awaits! JassSamOPlay I need to look back and see what you had predicted. 
Now that they are getting older, the males are really putting on a show. I am awaiting some snap on bands so I can catch and band each one as they are showing off. I am hoping it just looks like I have a lot of males due to their dominance overshadowing the quieter males. Otherwise, it will be an interesting spring when I allow them to hatch eggs. So far I only have one pair sitting plastic eggs that I replaced theirs with. And one of that pair that is sitting what they think is their eggs is #2 of the second set that you guys have the SHINY PENNY bet on. I will let you know who is right when I give the final answers of male or female on here pretty soon. 
Until then... thank you, this has been fun!


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## LeeLu (Sep 23, 2012)

christispigeons said:


> ~~~~Hello LeeLu, c.hert and Kitty~~~~
> I haven't forgot about the guessing game of my 10 white pigeons. I know the lucky winner of the SHINY PENNY awaits! JassSamOPlay I need to look back and see what you had predicted.
> Now that they are getting older, the males are really putting on a show. I am awaiting some snap on bands so I can catch and band each one as they are showing off. I am hoping it just looks like I have a lot of males due to their dominance overshadowing the quieter males. Otherwise, it will be an interesting spring when I allow them to hatch eggs. So far I only have one pair sitting plastic eggs that I replaced theirs with. And one of that pair that is sitting what they think is their eggs is #2 of the second set that you guys have the SHINY PENNY bet on. I will let you know who is right when I give the final answers of male or female on here pretty soon.
> Until then... thank you, this has been fun!


So, please tell us, since #2 has paired up....easy way to tell the hen is who sets on the eggs at night... So, Christi, is #2 setting on the eggs at night? If So....well, c.hert one shinny penny, i'll take it in picture form since you figured out how to use photobucket...just post my shinny penny in pic form in this thread address to LEELU!  Thanks Christi for the fun game!


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## christispigeons (May 28, 2015)

Going to have to wait a few days LeeLu. When I checked my records, the one that has paired up is Santa. And Santa is a female. Now Mrs. Claus. So c.hert has that one right. She is a good momma and sitting her plastic eggs so diligently! But this was not the one for the shiny penny. Her mate is #3 in the second group and you both guessed that one right as a male. He is not so diligent. He shares his sitting time with others. (Showing his age and why I am waiting until spring to allow them to sit their own eggs). A few more are starting to pair up and some males are so obviously male, but it is raining here and I haven't gotten the snap on bands yet to start marking them. It's just hard when they are all white. Some have little identifying characteristics. But I want to be sure when I tell you guys what they are. But soon......


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

That "old Leeluu" (she is most likely younger than me but I call special forum friends this when I post and have some fun with them) Yea she wants my "penny"---take your time with her Christispigeons for we do not want to rush my penny to her if I lose...lol Yea I want the whole list...lol She did not win yet....lol lol Wait on dear Leelu--wait on...Leelu..


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## LeeLu (Sep 23, 2012)

c.hert said:


> That "old Leeluu" (she is most likely younger than me but I call special forum friends this when I post and have some fun with them) Yea she wants my "penny"---take your time with her Christispigeons for we do not want to rush my penny to her if I lose...lol Yea I want the whole list...lol She did not win yet....lol lol Wait on dear Leelu--wait on...Leelu..


hahahahahahaha.....yeah i win; guess i have to wait for my PRIZE! lol


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Yea you will---ha ha...


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## christispigeons (May 28, 2015)

Just to make it clear ~ When I say its difficult with all white pigeons........ that's when I am watching them from outside the coop. There is no mistaking the leg bands when I catch them. It will be accurate. And I absolutely love the banter between you two. I will make sure the results are accurate! And I will post current pictures of #2 , in the second group that holds the title for the SHINY PENNY!


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Thanks for all that work and can't wait until I get that shiny penny that Leelu will send me...Can't wait---Yes--looking forward to the "Win"----Yes....Bye..


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## LeeLu (Sep 23, 2012)

christispigeons said:


> Just to make it clear ~ When I say its difficult with all white pigeons........ that's when I am watching them from outside the coop. There is no mistaking the leg bands when I catch them. It will be accurate. And I absolutely love the banter between you two. I will make sure the results are accurate! And I will post current pictures of #2 , in the second group that holds the title for the SHINY PENNY!


What did you name #2? If you don't have HER named yet, i suggest you consider SHINY PENNY for HER name.  C. Hert is gonna have to payup!!! hahahahah later


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

I am keeping my pennies under the loft for safe keeping.....no penny for you---at least for today especially a shiny one---their special....


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## christispigeons (May 28, 2015)

I haven't named a lot of them since the few I did name, some have turned out the opposite sex. Santa is now Mrs. Claus and Sally is Sal. But I sure hope LeeLu is right because I could use as many females as I can get. There's A LOT of dancing going on in my coop!


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Ha Ha Ha...Better plan on more females next season for that birdie is a male ... Keeping my shiney penny---don't want that Leelu old thing to get my nice penny.





c.hert said:


> You sure do have beautiful pigeons and I will play your guessing game. Now get you I am just guessing..lol That Leelu sounds like she knows what she is talking about and our dear Jay 3 is a naysayer--lol lol.. I'm a idiot for guessing....Here goes. First four: Female, Male, Male, Male. Second four: Female, Male, Male, Female. Last one---Male. Those birds in flight are just beautiful with a beautiful picture as well. Thanks for the fun..c.hert


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Our first snow this year in the city..


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Just look at this nonsense......

okay, i'll play....

Of the first 4...only one is a male...the first guy! His head on top is round, not flat...he looks young not fully developed, when he gets older his neck feathers will fill in and be fater than the females.

last 3 are female. Females have flat heads and small beaks...

That's Leelu's nonsense ---the second one is a male.....ha ha

Now the second batch is actually the vote and this is what she has said about those beautiful birdies...


Look at this nonsense.... That Leelu could not find a bird in a can....lol lol.. This is what she said on the bet.... That second one the betting bird is a male....Yes...not giving my penny up Yet...lol

2nd set, first three are hens, the top of their heads are 'flat'
the last guy is a male, top of his head is round...again, he is
young, his neck feathers will become fuller, and prickerly is
the way i see them...in otherwards, they don't lay flat and smooth
over the neck, the bottom edge of the neck feathers don't lay flat 
....when they strut, they almost get on their tip-toes, and their neck
feathers flare out as they strut around the female...

you'll soon learn the differences..right now they are too yound
the males coo and strut...the hens answer with their coo offer up 
their beak for a "kiss"....if they are interested in him! 

when they get older, and paired up....looks like you only have 2 males
so it will be interesting to watch which hens win the males....otherwise
you might consider getting a few more males....they will be fights for sure!

Enjoy!


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## LeeLu (Sep 23, 2012)

c.hert said:


> Just look at this nonsense......
> 
> okay, i'll play....
> 
> ...


hahahahahahahahahaa c.hert that SHINY PENNY you have will soon be departing from under your loft! 

Of the second group...#2 is a HEN! 

The new pic of her Christ promised will surely tell us she is a HEN.. 

i am guessing Christi doesn't really know yet how many hens vs males she has, as they all look the same to her. Yeah much dancing and strudding, but two males in a loft full of females, the strudding/dancing never ends...they approach all the hens, hoping to win one over! 

Christi posted she will SOONl provide this pic of #2 when she accepts her mate...i'd say you best get ready...go ahead and take a pic of Mr. Shiny Penny be prepared like a good boy scout to upload on photobucket to give to Leelu when you get the bad news that you lost.  hehehehehe later!


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Well my male will be dancing around a female and strutting his stuff. No way is that number two bird in the second section a female..Christi is just going to have to wait until next breeding season to get her required females and my "male" pigeon will help to contribute. Not only that he is going to become one of her "best" little male birdies..No picture for you or even a look at the shiny penny...Keep dreaming Keep dreaming..


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## christispigeons (May 28, 2015)

Running to work. But had a second to upload theses 4 pictures I took this morning of Shiny Penny so you two could continue your fun banter. Still no observed particular behaviors one way or the other, but I think I can take a good guess. Yet like many have said, you cant tell till they have mated up.
Are there transgender pigeon? Maybe you both can be right. ha ha


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## LeeLu (Sep 23, 2012)

christispigeons said:


> Running to work. But had a second to upload theses 4 pictures I took this morning of Shiny Penny so you two could continue your fun banter. Still no observed particular behaviors one way or the other, but I think I can take a good guess. Yet like many have said, you cant tell till they have mated up.
> Are there transgender pigeon? Maybe you both can be right. ha ha


Really good pics Christi, thank you.

Shiny Penny is DEFINITELY a hen!

pic #88.jpg is the tell....

note the breadth of the chest....
note the thin nape of the neck...
note the flatness of the head...
note the big eyes and small head.... (Dove eyes are beautiful)
note the small waddle (mustasche) and small beak

Shiny Penny is a hen. Hens typically don't make a bunch of noise....what they do, is "charge" males....they kind of fan their tails and "run" at the male, letting him know she is interested in mating. 

The male then stands "tall" neck feathers faned out and struts around the female . The female will walk around, maybe run, it's a good sign if the male chases her...then she stops and turns to the male, looking for a kiss....by holding her head up to his beak, they tap beaks, then the male gets serious, and opens his beak, the female inserts her beak and the kissing begins......

all the while this is going on, the female is silent...females don't make a bunch of noise....not until after the mating is over and they become a pair. The male will generally go into his nest/place and lay down and coo...calling his mate to come to his side...she then answers with her coo and goes by his side and they sleep together...when this goes on, you know they've paired up and they will not approach another dove. (My doves have a small room inside, with a balconey off the window where they stay outside, but sleep inside). In the morning, i can hear them when they wake up and talk to each other...i've gotten to know their coos..the males and their mates special coo in response. It's truly amazing how loving they are with each other....i am truly blessed with them so close to me, being able to see how they interact with each other so lovingly!

Point of all this is about how quiet hens are. They lead, and the males follow them around behind them wherever they go....it's truly a treat to watch this dance go on...

One of my pairs, is a daughter. ... the dad use to rule; she followed him wherever he went and he would coo and carry on with other females...she would watch him bewildered and wait, and sometimes all afternoon. She would leave him and hibernate in his nest waiting for him to come looking for her...that was when she was 5 months old.....now, she is 8 months old and she rules the roost! Wherever she goes he follows, no more playing around! hahahahahahaha

i hope i am wrong and you have more than 2 males amongst so many hens, it maybe why some of your doves haven't got a mate. If the 2 males have already paired up....that means your hens are quiet cause no pairing is going on.

Thanks for the pics....they just confirm, Shiny Penny is a HEN! 

So, c.hert...i assume you will want to wait till Shiny Penny gets a mate...before you deliver on the bet....that's okay, i can wait!


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

I am waiting as you wait and its a male...All those fine history of words for pigeons will be naught..lol It's a male--a young one but a MALE...Yes...Christi lovely pictures and that Leelu has plenty of time to change her mind as she looks again and again at the pictures..Yes a shiny penny is coming to me when it is time...Don't pay attention to all those words with the above posting because it is a male...lol


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## LeeLu (Sep 23, 2012)

*"Yes a shiny penny is coming to me when it is time."*

lol...hey hert...don't hold your breath over this "time" deal...cause, it will never BE a male "in time,* *>>>>>>>Shiny Penny is a HEN!<<<<<<<<< 
*


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Keep dreaming...


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## christispigeons (May 28, 2015)

I just walked in the door from work and couldn't wait to see what you guys thought of the pictures! I sure hope you guys are right on having a lot of females in the first 10. I had a guy look at my 20 the other day and he said it looked like I had mostly males. Ugg! But he just looked and didn't handle them. So I am hoping I have a fairly balanced group. 
But thanks for not disappointing me and commenting on the pictures and your SHINY PENNY!


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Continuing this thread about guessing the sex of a pigeon and the last thing that "old Leelu" said (she is younger than me- lol) was that the pigeon was a female and hoping it lays an egg but I still stay firm and say it is a male and "when I win the bet" she will mail me a shiny penny...Yes..We do not know the sex yet...so there is a chance and the pigeon has not laid any eggs yet either...


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## LeeLu (Sep 23, 2012)

c.hert said:


> Continuing this thread about guessing the sex of a pigeon and the last thing that "old Leelu" said (she is younger than me- lol) was that the pigeon was a female and hoping it lays an egg but I still stay firm and say it is a male and "when I win the bet" she will mail me a shiny penny...Yes..We do not know the sex yet...so there is a chance and the pigeon has not laid any eggs yet either...


hahahahahaha c.hert...if you want to be female here, okay; however i still think your a male...females don't normally aggressively bet.

besides you were the one that stated you were older than me; how you came up with that, i'll never know!

lastly, the bet is one shinny penny...a pic posted on this thread for all to see..you dedicating it to LEELU....no mail stuff....i don't give out my address to nobody! i will win this bet; a pic here will do just fine to satisfy the bet!...


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Well you better rent a post office box for me to mail it to or your neighbor fire station or something because that was the bet and we ain't changing it in "mid stream". But if you want "IF" you win I will take a picture of it and put it on here for all to see for in that case you would have won the bet..Keep hoping because that male birdie did not lay an egg just yet-------If Ever....ha ha ha....I serious doubt if you are "older" than me because if you were you would be wiser about the "sex traits of people and birdies"---ha ha...Can't wait for you to post a picture of my shiny penny as well as mail the penny to the address of my choice.....Yea do some more research on how to tell the sex of pigeons for you need all the education that you can get along these lines...Can't wait...When I win I might very well have you mail the penny to the Antarctic wildlife sanctuary if there is one---so you better hope I lose....lol


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## christispigeons (May 28, 2015)

The fun we have all had with this guessing game continues! Yay! Who would have thought. I am almost going to be depressed when he/she shows us what sex it is. You two's banter is hysterical! I so look forward to your witty replies!!


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## christispigeons (May 28, 2015)

*Final Results are in!*

Are you ready to see who gets the SHINY PENNY? And who had the best score?


This was the who guessed what from the eight pictures I posted:
Lee Lu.......1st set = H, H, H, M 2nd set = H, H, H, M last = M
Kitty.........1st set = H, M, M, H 2nd set = H, M, H, H last = M
c.hert........1st set = H, M, M, M 2nd set = H, M, M, H last = M
Christi.......1st set = M, H, H, H 2nd set = M, H, H, H last = M

These are the final results after watching the birds behaviors, observed mated pairs, who and how they mated and who had eggs:

1st set = M, H, M, H 2ND set = H, H, M, H LAST = M
FINAL TALLY:
LeeLu = 4 out of 9 right
Kitty = 5 out of 9 right
c,hert = 5 out of 9 right
Christi = 6 out of 9 right

*But the biggest bet was, who won the SHINY PENNY prize between LeeLu and c.hert??? *
Well.... Penny (which is now the birds name) is a hen. She is the second bird, in the 2nd set. And a very strong dominant hen. 
The other day, her and her mate decided they wanted a nest another pair had claimed. Penny stood toe to toe with her mate attacking the other cock, over and over again. About 30 minutes later, Pennys mate had had enough, he retreated and went out to the outside aviary. Not Penny! She continued to win that spot. Every time she was thrown off the edge, she would fly to the top of the coop and immediately dive bomb him again. She was not going to accept defeat. This continued for about 15 minutes. Then her mate came back into the coop and landed next to her. They appeared to silently communicate. Then she flew back outside to the aviary with her mate and gave up finally! The next day her mate claimed a vacant nesting box and she accepted. Peace at last.....at least for that day.

Congratulations LeeLu!!!! Sorry c.hert!


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

You mean I have to send a "shiny penny to "that old Leelu------------------OH No....She Won The Bet---------Oh No......Post Messaged where you want the penny sent too-------Oh No......What a day this has been,,,,,,Ughhhhhhhhhhhhh.......


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## christispigeons (May 28, 2015)

So sorry for your loss c.hert! LeeLu doesn't even know she has won yet or she would be on here gloating! You better be ready because you are so going to get it!


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

I can't wait..Hope she comes on soon. lol lol...Been missing her and hope she is okay..


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Not much bad for me. Happily satisfied with the performance. Lol.
Enjoyed !!!

c.hert, i am with you in your tough time.lol


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## christispigeons (May 28, 2015)

Kitty I am happy with mine. But this guessing contest turned out to be all about the Shiny Penny!!! The fun banter and exchanges between c.hert and LeeLu have brought a funny, colorful exchange which made it very fun!


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Yea it will be fun for you two until I have to mail that shiny penny to the "ends of the earth" when "that old thing " Leelu returns to collect the bet because of "Winning"...This is HUGH..........like Trump says : HUGH.......ugh...poor me....


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

yeah christis and c.hert, right ,the thread took a different funny turn actually.
and c.hert you won't be poor in loosing a penny


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

That penny will just break me...Sure hope our Leelu returns because she has not been on here for some time and I hope she is okay..


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## christispigeons (May 28, 2015)

Remember Kitty, it is not just any old penny! It's a VERY SHINNY PENNY!


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Lol , yeah i remember that is very SHINY 
LeeLu will be fine, don't worry c.hert. sometimes people are busy with many things and don't get time. And remember winners are busy even more


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Oh just rub it in--"Winners"----poor me ,,poor me....hope she stays away for "years", poor me...I will give her the less shiny penny that I can find. lol ha ha ha....poor me..


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## christispigeons (May 28, 2015)

Oh LeeLu where are you? You're missing a great opportunity here to harass c.hert!!!


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Should put a time limit on this----ha ha ha.....On the other hand I hope our Leelu is okay and does anyone know her who could get in contact with her...and let her know "my bad news", for that should make her rejoin us on this thread...Time limit rules coming...ha ha ha..


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## christispigeons (May 28, 2015)

No c.hert! No time limits. You will have to pay up. I'm sure she is just busy as "Life Happens".....
On another subject.... my babies are so cute! The parents are doing such good jobs that they are just like warm little water balloons! The oldest babies that are 10 days old, when I reached in to clean their nest, tried to peck me! So cute! As I cleaned, I could hear his beak go "clack, clack, clack" as I cleaned.


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## LeeLu (Sep 23, 2012)

christispigeons said:


> Oh LeeLu where are you? You're missing a great opportunity here to harass c.hert!!!


ha ha ha ha ha.....Leelu is present and accounted for....PAY UP C.HERT!!! ONE VERY SHINNY PENNY...just post a pic of it and i will download it and FRAME IT! Ha Ha...told ya, i am 90 percent correct in sexing!

sorry i am late to this party....my little baby dove mysteriously got a splayed leg....she was 5 weeks old, the night it happened, these losers who hate me picked the lock on my door through the night and for the 3rd time stole my cell phone...i simply transferred my cell number to a new phone each time.....these jokers got reported to the police, i asked the officers to track the calls made on my phone before the number transferred, the thieves used over 400 minutes...they are gonna get a knock on their doors when the investigation is finished....anyway, i suspect the last time they stole my phone, while i was asleep, they broke my baby's leg....she was in her nest box, alone....when i found her in her box, there was a small hole in her knee joint, bleeding had clotted, but the leg bone was turned backward her foot/leg was straight out beheind her as she laid in her nest....i was beside myself...i called the vet, they checked her out and said that until she got older there was nothing they could do...gave me antibotics for the hole in her knee joint; and referred me to the best vet in the area who rebuilds legs....

Delilah is her name, when she hatched, truly she was different, very beautifully perfect, like i posted, i am building a winning flock, her mom and dad, are beautiful, this is the first hen she had with this mate, it's gonna cost upwards of $500 to fix her leg, but i don't care....Delilah means more to me than the money! She is beautiful, strong, she flew first time a couple of days after they broke her leg...she is very strong, she has such a strong will; very loving, she lets nothing get in her way to go and do whatever it is she wants to do; best of all she is very smart! i have to give her liquid antibotics by syringe---Delilah is so very trusting of me; i don't want to let her down.......these losers that hurt her leg...because they didn't get my phone number and i believe broke her leg...destructive because they couldn't get what they wanted like spoiled kids who become destructive when they lose.... one day will reap what they sowed!

Post that Pic in this thread C.Hert, for all to see...

Thanks Christie for the game!

later all......i'll check back in a day or so!


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

That's terrible news Leelu and I sure hope your baby does okay and I hope they catch the b-------. Glad you have a pigeon surgeon in your area. I will take a picture of a shiny penny and put it on here for you..Congratulations on your win---well done...c.hert

Thanks Christie for the wonderful game that we had fun and all the work involved with the beautiful pictures....Shiny penny I need to pick out so the picture is good.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)




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## LeeLu (Sep 23, 2012)

c.hert said:


>


Thank you C.Hert, awesome picture.

Update...Doc said from the x-ray her bones need to get a little bit bigger, even though it's "backwards" before he can operate. 10 days, i take her back in for him to examine, i tried to straighten the leg with sticky tape...the leg band was cutting off the circulation, and the leg has swollen. The vet cut off the band and put her on amocillian and another drug...she has to take it 2 times a day, she has 2 refills to go. She may lose her little toe, it's brownish, the hole in her knee may have splintered the muscle to that toe...she can't move it.

Don't worry, i'll catch that b_____ i know who it is, she has been harassing/stalking me for 26 years....as a whistleblower, i was given a reward and it was stolen by Bush Sr...a 9th circle witch...it's one of those *****es in that cult he assigned to end me so he could keep my reward moola.....this child of God isn't going to be taken out by witchcraft...i am protected by the Holy Spirit....after 26 years of spiritual warfare..... i've learned how to protect myselft...the ***** is older than me and in her 70's....she has no protection, she is dying slowing, her power is dwindling....i believe she joined this board to learn about all the diseases her days of harassing me and mine are NUMBERED i've out distanced her, she is one very jealous/envious/hater....i think she also hurt JASS.

i also believe this ***** gave my other baby dove (Jael) PMV at 5 weeks...mysteriously she contracted PMV...a mild case of it; none the less she is now a carrier...she is almost completely over it; thank goodness she is from good strong stock....the parents have had many other doves with no pmv symptoms....i am certain the ***** gave that dreaded disease to my baby dove, hoping it would die...it didn't. 

I now have two adult males without clean mates...delilah might be able to mate with samson whom just turned 6 months old...deliliah is about to turn 2 mos old.....

So i am thinking i'll let Leelee bring another hen into the world to replace Jael whom i will not breed....she considers me her mate....i guess that will just stay that way unless down the road a male takes her away from me!

C. Hert thanks again for the beautiful card with the shinny penny; definitely appriciate your creativity! It's gonna look good when i get it framed! 

Christi, i wish you the best with your flock....it takes time to make a really strong flock, i now have 13....most all my doves have at least 27" wing spans, that takes time, i have 2 hens that i haven't let have their eggs...i may let each of them hatch a hen since delilah and jael may not be good breeders. i wish you the best with you flock beware of the kitty-cats on this forum...they hate birdies! Thanks again for the fun game!

Leelu


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