# pij with poor vision



## paisleypij (Dec 13, 2009)

hi there, we have taken in a poorly pij, and it seems he has a trouble with his vision, he wont fly away he walks but he has trouble spotting his food, as an emergency we are feeding some boiled egg and some bread, we took him/her in last night after spotting it at the back. after warming pij in my hands pij came to life again and was starving, pij is very skinny with no flesh on the bones, what troubles us is its eyesight, while eating he keeps tilting its head to one sight and has to pick about 10 times before being able to get one hit on its food. it drinks with standing in the bowl and again tilting its head so its left eye is facing down.
anyone an idea what is wrong and what is best approach here 

thanks 
the paisleycrew


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Hi paisleypij,

Welcome to the forum and thank you for helping this little one out.



> tilting its head to one sight and has to pick about 10 times before being able to get one hit on its food.


This description makes me think your bird may have a condition called PMV. I myself do not have any experience personally with this, but there are a number of people here who do. I am sure they will see your post and offer some help and suggestions before too long.

Please do as you are doing, keep him quite and help to feed him right now. One thing I do remember about PMV birds is until it is determined how self sufficient they are in their ability to drink, not to leave a water dish in their cage at all times, only when they can supervised and observed, as there is a chance with some of them of them drowning from loosing control of their head in their water.

Good luck with him,

Karyn


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Hi Crew

If you put a hand first on one side of the bird, then the other, as if to touch him, does he appear to respond to only one or both sides? He may be blind in one eye. Is there any sign of swelling or anything else unusual about either eye?

The pecking and taking so many attempts to get food is possibly partial blindness, or it could be a neurological problem (as mentioned by Karyn) causing difficulty in focusing. Wouldn't like to make any firm estimate so far.

For now, keep him safe and secure, preferably with something like a well wrapped hot water bottle if you have such. He'd be best in a cage or a cardboard box, with some kitchen roll or other comfortable bedding. Provide him with a small pot of water, just a little warm, with a pinch of salt and either glucodse powder or sugar.(The actual mix ia 1/2 tablesp glucose or sugar, 1/2 teaspoon of salt in about 1 pt slightly warm water.; he may be dehydrated (though there's been plenty of rainwater around,as you'll have noticed  ).

Is he in Liverpool or Paisley at this time? 

Does he have a white cere, top of the beak or is it more flesh colored? Just to get an idea if he is very young or adult in appearance.

Some mixed corn or just wild bird seed would be good if available tomorrow. If he is having diffculty eating, gently pushing thawed out and just warm frozen peas and sweetcorn into the mouth can help - good thing to handfeed them with one at a time.

John


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## paisleypij (Dec 13, 2009)

HI Dobato

thanks for your reply 
at the moment the little one is roaming about the flat not attempting to fly, and although i am not experienced with pigeons i think it is the fact that he lacks the strength to fly, he is looking around and nosey but not budging when you approach him, for now its just observe and go along as feels right, he can see but seems to have lack of coordination.

thanks 

Christiaan and Joy


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## paisleypij (Dec 13, 2009)

hi John

the wee guy is in paisley at the moment, and he has a white sere top of the beak,
the response of the wee thing is very docile in any way, he does walk around with firm pace and testing how he reacts i have the idea he is so used to people that he just let everything happen is there a possibility to post a video of him on here to help out with determining the problem he has at the moment?

cheers 

Christiaan and Joy


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Hi Christiaan and Joy,

John made a good post.

Keep him quite, warm, feed and hydrated for now until further determinations can be made. A little food, water and heat can go a long way in bringing a bird to a place where his condition and health can truly be figured out.

Karyn


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## paisleypij (Dec 13, 2009)

hi guys 

at this moment it appears that he is using one eye at a time to observe its surroundings walking about in circles, showing coordination problems, walking is firm and feathers are fluffed up i will put him back in its box for now to see if i can provide more warmth for him, his head is slightly tilted to the left when in rest to see upwards, both eyes are free of swellings, he prefers using his right eye for clear looks around the flat and the left one closes more often, (i am typing while observing him).

Christiaan and Joy


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## paisleypij (Dec 13, 2009)

quick update he just made a flying attempt to get on the couch, although he did not succeed as yet, for now i will try to get him rested and warm to build strength and get some food in him.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Seems like he fell into the right hands 

Let us know if you observe any kind of discharge - nostrils or watery eye. 

You can certainly post pics on here, uploaded with 'manage attachments' under 'reply to thread ... additional options'. Videos would have to be on another site with a link posted on here. YouTube vids can be embedded in a post, though, so viewable directly on here. 

Example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qcpEk_zo_g

would require you to put

[MEDIA=youtube]8qcpEk_zo_g[/MEDIA]

John


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## paisleypij (Dec 13, 2009)

Hi John 

first of all its good to know there is a forum that is willing to give advice and support, so many thanks for that.

we will keep observing the wee guy to make sure we can do what is needed at the time it is needed, and i will try to work out the youtube thingy mentioned by you.

for now he is in his box to stay warm and calm.
and iny changes i will be on here to report and seek advice 

cheers 
Christiaan and Joy


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

They can suffer some neurological damage from any of a few diseases (or in combination) that can cause that behavior. I have a few like that, which seem to suffer a permanent condition. One is in the house right now, recuperating from an attack from the other birds--he's a very loving and appreciative little fellow. 

It's certainly possible to post a video on an image hosting service and link it here. If you don't have such an account, you can send it to me and I can do it on mine: [email protected]

Pidgey


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Thanks for saving him ! keep a lookout for any sort of "episodes" - something whch looks like he might be having a fit - or walking backwards - or head flopping to his side - those are PMV signs


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## paisleypij (Dec 13, 2009)

hi Jaye he does not walk backwards but i am thinking he might have most certainly PMV, the good thing is today he is feeling so much better, he looks bright and is making flying attempts although not to a success yet, his aim is improving although i do sence he has no view direct in front of him to the sides is fine but not what is in front his beak, this ofcourse making it difficult to eat, he does also at times spin round in tiny circles which makes him dizzy the poor little mite, he has gained strength over the last 2 days which is making us feel a little relieved, i will try to keep updates as much as possible 

i will sent you the video for posting pidgey

many thanks for your support guys 

Christiaan and Joy


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

I am certainly no expert but this sure sounds like PMV to me.


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## paisleypij (Dec 13, 2009)

hi people 

just a bit of an update 
after a few days TLC from Joy the little thing has become a whole lot better, even is making flying attempts, no fits or strange behaviour, the only concern is that he still is a bit of coordination while he pecks for his food,although that also has improved, he is at the moment on pigeon food and wild bird seed with a lot of high energy stuff in it. which for time being seems to give him all he needs, he does not drink overly much his droppings are starting to look normal and he makes a lot of flying attempts, so we are keeping our fingers crossed the little fellah will be ok.

Christiaan and Joy


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Hi

Thanks for the update 

Seems like he's going well. It still could be that he has an eye problem, though if each eye appears to be working, and it just focussing that's the problem then I don't know  

I've only seen that with PMV, personally, but that doesn't mean it cannot have other causes.

If you shine a plain ol' battery torch in each eye, do the pupils in each react the same? Might be worth trying.

Good that he's chomping on pigeon food 

John


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, don't forget to send me the video anyhow!

Pidgey


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## paisleypij (Dec 13, 2009)

hi pidgey

i will have to take a new video as this one is 118 mb big.
i will make a new one tomorrow 

the last update is that he is eating very well and attempting to fly which is not going to well, he still has not to good a coordination as he misses a lot with pecking his food, he still likes to be kept warm and loves to snuggle up to a warm hand. his eyesight is improving as he ducks when i stick out my hand towards him,all in all he is reacting more pij like. and i am growing very attached to the little fellah, joy is in Liverpool at the moment and its me and the wee guy in Scotland, for now he is in his box snuggled up to his warm water bottle

Christiaan


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Hi Christiaan,

Thanks for the update.

It sounds like this little one could not have found better hands to fall into. Thanks for caring and for looking after him so well.

Karyn


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## paisleypij (Dec 13, 2009)

i can only try and do my best and the wee guy is very sweet,so its a pleasure to look after him


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## paisleypij (Dec 13, 2009)

hi guys 

i have a question which i hope you can answer, what does it mean when a pigeon twitches its wings, i seen him do that regular and sometimes you can hear it when the wing-tips touch each other?
at the moment i am trying to shoot a wee video but the wee guy is aware of the camera and just stays still and put where he is. i will post it as soon i have it though

Christiaan


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Wing twitching can be a sign of excitement. Does he do that when approached or given attention?

Reti


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## paisleypij (Dec 13, 2009)

hi Reti

he does that when he gets attention and he likes it be very close to me, he actually follows me from room to room in the flat.
i am made up that he is exercising his wings although he does not fly, he keeps its feathers in good shape by preening regular, and his balance is very good as he stands on one leg. i am still trying to get a decent video of him to post but for now he just freezes when the camera is near him 

Christiaan


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## paisleypij (Dec 13, 2009)

a pigeon not able to fly, eyes fill with tears wanting to cry.
this beautiful creature so fragile, not capable of flying away, bound to the ground it has to stay.
give it compasion, shelter food and a place to stay, treat it with love and repect so maybe one day, it is able to spread it wings and fly away, and you will receive your blessing with the greatest gift when it says its goodbye, and once again will soar through the open sky.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

A good and kind thought so well expressed.

They are such unquestioning and adaptable little beings, however. Quite a number of our motley collection of rescued pigeons can no longer fly. Some have wings damaged beyond repair, some had PMV and were left with (possibly) permanent nervous system issues (though most of our PMV birds do now fly), some we shall probably never know why. 

Despite this, they lead much the same life in the smaller world we have made for them as any flighted pigeon. Most pair up, build their nests and lay their eggs. They have their baths and showers. They are active, 'talkative' and have their squabbles as pigeons often do. Some surprise us by being found in places one mght think inaccesible, but they figure out how to get to where they want to be. Our Belgian racer runs up the wire and glides effortlessly across to any perch he chooses. They watch, they copy, so one of the grounded PMV birds has learned the same trick, and stands proudly defying any pigeon to try to oust him from his perch.

Then, I watch my local ferals from my apartment on the south Coast. All of the sky they have, but do they care? No sir! A couple of laps around the apartment complex and then it's hang out on a nearby roof, flit over to my balcony to see if anything's on offer, forage on lawns and gardens and then back to lounge about. Often, my balcony seems like an aviary without wire 

Early days yet. Maybe your little pal will gain the power of flight, maybe not, but a flightless pigeon in the right home can lead a contented, active and long life regardless.

John


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## paisleypij (Dec 13, 2009)

i know he might never be able to be out in the wild again and i am willing to give the wee guy a home as long as he needs to. it was more a few words in hope for better things for the wee fellah to come.
mind you i don't even know if its a lad or a lass 
any easy way of telling?


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Good question. Some say the only way to know for sure is if a pigeon one day lays an egg 

I think that at his age you aren't likely to know, but it can often be figured out from behavior when they're a little older. Some young ones do seem to be more pushy and confident when it's a boy but I've certainly been wrong about one of ours who seemed very male but turned out to bea hen 

Pigeons usually have had the moult into 'adult' plumage by 3 months, Their voices break, too - a pigeon's squeak can become like a cross between a squeak and a quack, and then develop the 'coo'. Generally, then, a male will be more vocal than the female. Indeed, with many of our adult hens, I have hardly ever heard a coo from them.. 

As the weeks go by, a male particularly may begin acting like a juvenile delinquent!.If a pigeon has a place which is special to him, like his box or cage, he may wing slap or peck the hand that ventures in. A male who is now trying to be a 'big pigeon' may be bowing and puffing out his chest, turning in deliberate circles, and give out with plenty of cooing. Lone hens are generally quieter in their ways and may just mutter if they feel disturbed, but that's not universal and some of them will defend their space as strongly as a male. 

If a house pigeon later decides that one of his or her humans is their 'mate', then there's different courtship behaviors one can readily spot, but for now he's gonna keep you guessing 

Still, others have probably seen many more young 'uns than I have and may know signs I've not observed.

John


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## paisleypij (Dec 13, 2009)

hi there 

a wee update on the paisley front, the wee guy has made small progress and is now having a little snooze, he is a bit better on his aim to peck hi food and he is even starting to sort out the bits that he doesn't like to one side and the bits he likes for eating, choosy or spoiled haha, took some pictures their in my album in my profile 

Christiaan


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Well that's good to hear. I'll have to go check out the pics.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Those are some nice shots of him. Cute little guy.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Pee-wee is a very handsome bird, thanks for the photos.

Karyn


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## paisleypij (Dec 13, 2009)

hi folks 

a little update on peewee the feathered pal.
first of all he made himself quite at home following me through the flat like a dog watching my every move. he certainly is fond of company and loves to sit in my hand, i have come to terms that a release in the wide world (for as far a flight around the block can be taken as that) will b=never happen, so now i am considering how to accommodate him after my upcoming move to Liverpool in near future. as he is used to my presence i don't want to really part with him as he is my wee pal and i have grown very fond of him. he doesn't mind being left alone for a day as long he has his tray of food and his bowl of bevy. and with me working around the corner at this point in time i can drop in during lunch to see he is ok. he still doesnt fly although he certainly gives it his best at times, he does seem very content as he comes close to me for company and the evenings are spent with him sitting on my legs to keep warm, or sitting in my hands which are roasting at best of times, he still sleeps in his box and he finds new ways every day to make it very clear to me what he wants. so all in all it looks like i have a lodger, i will keep yous posted on any changes and how he is doing.

christiaan


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Thanks for the update. They make great pals, don't they? I'm glad you're keeping him, as I'm sure he has become very fond of you too. I have one siting on a little shelf just over my shoulder as I type this. LOL. My buddy Scooter.


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## paisleypij (Dec 13, 2009)

hi Jay3 

they do make great wee pals, right now he is sitting on his fav place looking down on my typing and it keeps amazing me how easy they get attached or should i say used to us. funny how they find their ways of letting you know what they want, but yeah he is staying i guess 

christiaan


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

That's great! Are you so sure that HE is finding more ways to tell you what he wants? Maybe it is YOU who are just getting better at reading him. LOL. When there is a friendship or bond between two different species, it is amazing how they learn to read each other. I'd say you're getting to be pretty good friends.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Christiaan,

That's so good that he's going to be looked after and get a best friend for life. Mind you he'll be your best friend aswell. Really pleased for both of you. 

Janet


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## paisleypij (Dec 13, 2009)

at this point i am convinced he has or had pmv. he surely fitted a lot of the symptoms and his behaviour still touches a few of the signs as well. but he sure is making a very good recovery and he has a strong will to keep on going, so the only thing i can do is be of support to him, the funny thing is though that its a very rewarding job looking after him


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

You're doing great for that bird 

I got one here right now - one of my ferals - and she's comng on well so far.

John


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## lindylou (Jul 25, 2009)

I have kept reading your entire post, and when I compare what rough shape the wee guy was when you first got him (surely he'd have not lived another day without you) as to where he is now, well, I can tell you, it fills my heart with joy. Yes, please keep him. As Jay says, pmv pijies can lead happy lives with nice people caring for them - nice people LIKE YOU! LOL and give the we lad or lass a pat on the velvet head for me, eh? Keep us posted how Pee Wee does, please.


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## paisleypij (Dec 13, 2009)

hi guys 

a little update on wee peewers 
it seems his aim is getting better as i find that his food is only half way spread out through the kitchen instead of taking up the whole of the kitchen floor, but also i find he is more and more getting clingy, as we share the couch at night he watches tv and i sit and work or watch tv with him he comes over to climb on my knee, he must like the warmth or the company, as soon i leave the room he follows me around ending up sitting a foot away from me. his favourite hobby is sitting snoozing next to me opening his eye every now and then to look if i am still there, me i am getting so very attached to the we e guy i find myself talking to him. i know its silly as he does not speak my language but i have the idea he enjoys company. his flying exercise is getting more often and more succesful of which i am very pleased and hopefully he be able to spread his wings for a bit, no matter how cute it looks when he walks about i would prefer to see the wee guy fly, he also has become the owner of a brand new hamper which he actualy seems to find very comfortable.

as usual i will keep you posted on any changes 


Christiaan


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Well he sounds just adorable, following you all over the place. And as far as talking to him, they enjoy that. I think they like the sound of your voice, and most of mine seem to understand what I'm saying! LOL. Not silly at all. If it is, then there are an awful lot of us silly people out here.


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## littlestar (May 11, 2005)

Christiaan, Pee wee is a cutie. Your doing a great job him and glad your going to keep him. I have a blind pigeon, he came to me as a rescue and didn't think he would make but good news was he did. BTW his name is Pee Wee too and is going on 5 years old this year. He can fly even thought he has no sight, but most of time he walks around on the floor.


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