# British Racing under attack by PETA



## TobyPYoung (Mar 27, 2013)

UK media reporting today that PETA has revealed a new investigation into racing across the English Channel
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/38...acks-calls-to-end-utterly-cruel-pigeon-racing


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Oh brother.....what lies they like to tell.


Honestly those arent lies. I agree with some of what PETA says. Except for banning racing. I believe so many people have become so infatuated with the sport itself they have lost track of actually caring about their pigeons, they just care for them. I do believe that 900 miles is a bit much. Theres really no reason for such a distance
The casualites are so high because people breed so many YBs they just become statistics. And it strikes me odd that with all the talk about pigeon friendly conduct on this site, the fact that dude just ripped the head off that perfectly good pigeon is [email protected]!#*& up, you would think more people would say something about it. Mike Tyson got into his first fight because of it.
As much as PETA tries to stop pigeon racing they cant, especially when the number of fanciers is so high amd includes royalty. However, they may just accomplish banning certain long distance races.
Im not on PETAs side, but I agree with what they say about some fanciers being cruel to their birds...keeping birds fed and healthy does not qualify you as a good pigeon keeper IMO. Theres a lot more love and care that goes into it. I agree that 900 miles is excessive, that the pigeon community needs to take more interest in the fanciers that make up thos community...but...speaking from sources outside of this sport, PETA, and our pigeon world...they are just birds.
Smh.yea. right.
I love all my birds. I couldnt kill one. Cause thats what that man in the video did. Call iy what you want, cull or whatever. He straight up killed it and left the body in a bag. Im sure some members here might use this method. Im saying(and I know its against rules to say it but I have to) that if you do that to your pigeon, and just toss it in a bag and throw it in the trash, your wasting everything about that pigeon. Millions starve around the world. I know how PT feels about consuming pigeons, but damn man give the bird a purpose or something! Dead in vain. Thats what it is. Id rather sell it to a livestock auction, or eat it myself. Give the bird some justice in its life, damn. Its like shooting someone and just leaving him in the street for the coroner. Waste of life if yoy ask me.
But again, they're just birds right?
Right?!
Im not trying to debate or bash anyones philosophical viewpoints. Im just saying...it does seem kinda F'd up.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

We use MILES here in the US other parts of the world use kilometers which is less then miles And do not think the birds are flying 900 miles. NOW PETA is on the ATTACK. And just as the part where it showed several birds down in the water not being able to get out. I wonder if that was STAGED, As how could they come across them in a boat not knowing the line of flight. AND WHY if it was real did they PETA not rescue them MAKES one wonder. They as I have said started there campain when TYSONS show aired acouple of years back And they are building there case to stop not only pigeon racing But pigeon keeping of any kind. What they show on film Is what they want showed. There are graphic parts But they want that to get people to side with them. MAYBE if PETA showed on film to the public where they kill many animals Perhaps people would think they are cruel.As long as we have HUMANS and have animals and birds ECT mAn will want to interact with them. THE people who want to be vegin, and such CAN have there life BUT NOT force it on others. There is a certion amount of cruel things to all aspects of life The hawk KILLS birds Is it cruel or is it nature. kept pigeons Have a rather safe life and long life.


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

re lee said:


> We use MILES here in the US other parts of the world use kilometers which is less then miles And do not think the birds are flying 900 miles. NOW PETA is on the ATTACK. And just as the part where it showed several birds down in the water not being able to get out. I wonder if that was STAGED, As how could they come across them in a boat not knowing the line of flight. AND WHY if it was real did they PETA not rescue them MAKES one wonder. They as I have said started there campain when TYSONS show aired acouple of years back And they are building there case to stop not only pigeon racing But pigeon keeping of any kind. What they show on film Is what they want showed. There are graphic parts But they want that to get people to side with them. MAYBE if PETA showed on film to the public where they kill many animals Perhaps people would think they are cruel.As long as we have HUMANS and have animals and birds ECT mAn will want to interact with them. THE people who want to be vegin, and such CAN have there life BUT NOT force it on others. There is a certion amount of cruel things to all aspects of life The hawk KILLS birds Is it cruel or is it nature. kept pigeons Have a rather safe life and long life.


That pigeon in water footage looked like it was from The Pigeon Game:Taiwan or some other pigeon film, and if it wasnt, good point
Why film it? Like cameramen who film horrible situations in third world countries.But as much as we would like it to be, it really isnt about PETA itself as a whole, but what they are trying to do to the sport. Forget how crooked or coniving they are, concentrate on what they are specifically doing to the sport, or attempting to do.
IMO, PETA isnt a threat its a nuisance. Defend your sport and your passion, but be aware there is some truth to what they say.
Like I said before, I think pigeon fanciers have strayed away from caring about their birds, rather they just care for them, if you can overstand the difference of that statement.


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## V-John (May 15, 2008)

re lee said:


> . There is a certion amount of cruel things to all aspects of life The hawk KILLS birds Is it cruel or is it nature. kept pigeons Have a rather safe life and long life.


This is a very true statement. I have a 14 year old hen in my loft. I'm guessing a pigeon living in the wild has zero chance of living that long. Mother Nature can be very cruel sometimes. But it is what it is. You try and treat and do the best you can for the animals in your care. That's all you can do sometimes.


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

V-John said:


> This is a very true statement. I have a 14 year old hen in my loft. I'm guessing a pigeon living in the wild has zero chance of living that long. Mother Nature can be very cruel sometimes. But it is what it is. You try and treat and do the best you can for the animals in your care. That's all you can do sometimes.


Its not what the hawks do that is considered cruel, because they consume what they kill to survive. However, what man does to pigeons IS considered cruel. Because we arent doing in to survive, we do it because that pigeon doesnt fit our standard. We dont want it. We dont need it. Or whatever.


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## V-John (May 15, 2008)

kingdizon said:


> Its not what the hawks do that is considered cruel, because they consume what they kill to survive. However, what man does to pigeons IS considered cruel. Because we arent doing in to survive, we do it because that pigeon doesnt fit our standard. We dont want it. We dont need it. Or whatever.


I believe, that the video did mention that as a negative, when they were discussing predation and how the domestication of the pigeon forces it to be a target. 
The video truely is over the top though and it's unfortunate that it has come to this. 

Since discussing culling is a no-no, I won't go into that aspect of the discussion.


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

V-John said:


> I believe, that the video did mention that as a negative, when they were discussing predation and how the domestication of the pigeon forces it to be a target.
> The video truely is over the top though and it's unfortunate that it has come to this.
> 
> Since discussing culling is a no-no, I won't go into that aspect of the discussion.


I will agree it is over the top. They must pay their video editors well. And as a negative to being subject as easy prey... well if they have a problem with it then tell they can start a campaign to ban hawks. It seems PETA only helps cute or domestic animals. Do they have a save the tiger campaign? No, because tigers are killing machines. PETA is full of B.S.


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

kingdizon said:


> Honestly those arent lies. I agree with some of what PETA says.


Maybe you should consider joining PETA!


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

bbcdon said:


> Maybe you should consider joining PETA!


I knew someone would say some dumb stuff like that and I was waiting for it. Why should I? Because I didnt agree with a PT member? Because I said I agree with some of what they say? Im entitled to agree with what I feel is right, just like I agree with john and lee. Just because someone agrees with another party, doesnt mean they should now be all about that parties views and join them. I believe in Jesus, doesnt make me a christian. Maybe you shouldnt be such a smartass


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Lets please keep on track. Starting name calling leads no where except more name calling.


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

I apologize bbcdon for being offended and reacting as such. Back on topic


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

Well after a little checking the most any of those birds go is 900k= 556 miles, and where the birds cross the channel would be 50.5k=32 miles. Sounds to me like PETA is full of lies just to make their cause sound better, they have an agenda no matter how wrong it is.
Dave


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

kingdizon said:


> That pigeon in water footage looked like it was from


If it is km and not miles than 900 km is only 559 miles which is reasonable for old birds.

As far as your reference to that film. I was appalled when I saw that! It was nuts you see pigeons drowning as they are let out, why would they film such a thing? There is also another Pigeon Game that was filmed in NYC for the world trade center race and you see them let out hundreds of birds into this thick fog. Whats wrong with them? They shouldn't do that, and if they wanted to than don't film it! How can we promote the sport when, when you youtube pigeon racing which is something that is done when interested in this sport you see pigeons drowning and being let out into thick fog, its insane.

Once again just my opinion,
Sho


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

Crazy Pete said:


> Well after a little checking the most any of those birds go is 900k= 556 miles, and where the birds cross the channel would be 50.5k=32 miles. Sounds to me like PETA is full of lies just to make their cause sound better, they have an agenda no matter how wrong it is.
> Dave


That adds a better clarification. I was racking my brain trying to think why any pigeon fancier would send their bird on a 900mile race and put them through that type of strain and stress. Friggin PETA should be in political campaign commercial business, cuz they sure know how to overexaggerate


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

I'll bet the pigeons you see drowning is staged by PETA, I've seen my own birds land in water to get a drink and then take off and it looked like no big deal to them.
Dave


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

First To Hatch said:


> If it is km and not miles than 900 km is only 559 miles which is reasonable for old birds.
> 
> As far as your reference to that film. I was appalled when I saw that! It was nuts you see pigeons drowning as they are let out, why would they film such a thing? There is also another Pigeon Game that was filmed in NYC for the world trade center race and you see them let out hundreds of birds into this thick fog. Whats wrong with them? They shouldn't do that, and if they wanted to than don't film it! How can we promote the sport when, when you youtube pigeon racing which is something that is done when interested in this sport you see pigeons drowning and being let out into thick fog, its insane.
> 
> ...


Agreed. When I first watched all the youtube videos I could, PETA included, I seriously reconsidered what I was getting into


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

Crazy Pete said:


> I'll bet the pigeons you see drowning is staged by PETA, I've seen my own birds land in water to get a drink and then take off and it looked like no big deal to them.
> Dave


Yes...but your pigeons didnt land in the middlebof an ocean after flying 400+ miles tho...just saying


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

kingdizon said:


> That adds a better clarification. I was racking my brain trying to think why any pigeon fancier would send their bird on a 900mile race and put them through that type of strain and stress. Friggin PETA should be in political campaign commercial business, cuz they sure know how to overexaggerate



Don't rack your brain to hard, I did it to prove a point. I trained 3 birds special for a long distance toss, and I did it for a $10 dollar bet. My wife's Aunt said they could not do it, so I sent 3 birds to Tuscon Az. These were special birds, they were turned out on a Thursday morning and home Sunday afternoon. I new these 3 birds could do the job, and they did.
Dave

P.S. that was over 1000 miles, and no I wouldn't have sent just any bird.


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

I am unable to view the linked video.

But, let's face the truth. Pigeon "culling" (in the bad way), is not rare.

Additionally, pigeon racing is gambling with the lives of the pigeons. Most racing pigeons are taken care of extremely well. The best food, housing and care, that any animal could get. Except for those dogs and cats that sleep in our beds.

But the motivation is not for the welfare of those pigeons. It is for the outcome of racing, that the owner/handler is interested in. We are not doing it for the sake of the pigeon. We are doing it for our own personal competitive interests.

It is a fun and facinating sport. But it is about exploiting a living thing. THAT can not be denied. No different than horse racing, dog racing, bird dog hunting, breeding and selling parakeets, breeding and selling dogs and cats, or raising fan tail guppies. It is not for the animal. It is for us.

My biggest complaints about racing pigeons, is the cruel culling and the disregard for the life of birds that are just not good at racing. For sure, there are flyers/handlers/owners, that care a great deal, for the birds in their care. But there are also many that do not care much. Except for the bottom line of "winning".

I don't know how many discussions I have heard about this guy or that guy, sending unqualified birds to long distances. Just to lighten the number of birds they will have to feed throughout a coming winter. Birds not qualified from past experience, to race that far, that soon.

I actually considered joining PETA years ago. Concerning illegal cock fighting in my area. But after talking with them, and reading up on them. I decided not too, as they take everything overboard, (as many people do, in many subjects). They are overzealous. But I agree with them in substance.

I took 28 old birds on a training toss today. All have been hundreds of miles last year, in racing. They have the ability and the know how to come home. Today I took them 35 miles. It was a partly cloudy day, with periods of sunshine. Not too bad a day for March.

As of now, I am out four birds. I don't understand why. Maybe they were not hungry enough, I don't know. I am hoping they will make it home before dark. I feel lousy when I race or train homing pigeons, that for whatever reason, do not ever come home.

But that is what we do. We breed, raise, train and race homing pigeons. But let us not kid ourselves. It is about what we want. Not about what the birds want, desire, or is in their best interest.

Is is a "slightly" bothersome sport, to my emotions. But the alternative is not racing pigeons and not preserving the homing aspect of racing pigeons, and their speed abilities. My pigeons would not exist ever, if not for their ability to race. They are not pets. They are race horses that fly. Greyhounds that have wings.

Them's the facts. Just like NASCAR, football, or boxing. We would not be interested if no one had the potential of getting hurt. That is life. Life is a "take your chances" thing. Pigeons and us, take our chances. When I drive to toss my birds, I could also not come home. There are accidents every day. But I make an informed decision to drive somewhere. Racing pigeons do not. I do not lie to myself about these things.

I just choose to participate in this sport. Regardless of how the birds are affected.

I know for a fact, that if I did not race my birds. If I just fed, housed and watered them, with free range of my area. That they would soon all be a meal for a predator. It would not take long at all.

Maybe I am a bad person. I don't know. But what awesome things in life, are without risk?

Nothing.

PETA is overzealous. No doubt about it. But I think that most of us, do understand and agree with their basic motivations. The welfare of animal life.

PETA keeps us in check. Much like democrats and republicans keep each other in check. IMO, we need them. They serve a good function. If for nothing else, to keep the bad of us, in check. To a certain degree. I can live with PETA and their compaigns. Just like democrats, they are an absolute necessity, even though I disagree with them nine times out of ten.


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## Ross Howard (Nov 26, 2009)

kingdizon said:


> That adds a better clarification. I was racking my brain trying to think why any pigeon fancier would send their bird on a 900mile race and put them through that type of strain and stress. Friggin PETA should be in political campaign commercial business, cuz they sure know how to overexaggerate


That's why we have 2 ears & only one mouth . We should listen twice as much before speaking wrongly. Be aware of what is said & what it means before & get all the facts before making accusations. Just cause its on the web doesn't make it true. Also remember PETA is also after our prisoner birds too some say if its got wings to fly it should .


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

conditionfreak said:


> I am unable to view the linked video.
> 
> But, let's face the truth. Pigeon "culling" (in the bad way), is not rare.
> 
> ...


^^perfectly written.


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

kingdizon said:


> I apologize bbcdon for being offended and reacting as such. Back on topic


Please accept my apology!


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

bbcdon said:


> Please accept my apology!


Accepted. Im a pigeon racer, not a PETA member


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

conditionfreak said:


> I am unable to view the linked video.
> 
> But, let's face the truth. Pigeon "culling" (in the bad way), is not rare.
> 
> ...



AMEN Brother. I've been trying to find a way to say what you just said so well - I just couldn't put the words together. And quite honestly I've wanted to avoid being labelled as a PETA supporter which is far from true. It is possible, you know, to support humane treatment of animals without being aligned with PETA.

There are dirty little secrets in this sport I've discovered in my short five years racing. We are mostly self-regulated, which is perhaps why we have come under the scrutiny of others. Checks and balances, as Walt mentions above, can be beneficial, even if they are painful.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Excuse me butting in on a fanciers' thread, but I too think conditionfreak's post was excellent and really says it all.



> It is a fun and facinating sport. But it is about exploiting a living thing. THAT can not be denied. No different than horse racing, dog racing, bird dog hunting, beeding and selling parakeets, breeding and selling dogs and cats, or raising fan tail guppies. It is not for the animal. It is for us.


Anybody who thinks PETA is about 'animal welfare' - it is not. It is about all the above and more, ultimately, whatever good they may do along the way (and get lotsa publicity for). To PETA, even guide dogs for the blind are exploitation and should never have existed, so whatever our motivation for pigeon-keeping (probably even my rescue pigeons) you can bet it is BAD in the eyes of AR.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

I have to agree with every one, that is the best post I have read.
Dave


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

As Paul Harvey would put it, the rest of the story.

I watched the video several times, some thing looked out of place, then it hit me no shadow, so after a bit of research, they don't turn the birds out till 1300 hours=1:00 pm. So any birds that came home on the day is fantastic.

And it would seem weird they would do that if the birds have to fly over water on the last part of the race. AR's animal rights people think that is to far for them to fly in a day, so they make them release that late, thinking the birds will put up for the night and get a break.
Dave


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## scott.peets (Dec 1, 2012)

I figured I would add my 2 cents. With the statements above to me everything in life is done for our benefit. We choose whats best for us and even as a group or society. Regardless of the price someone or something pays. We drive cars at the expense of fossil fuels, pollution, health to people, animals and plants. People have homes, lawns, children, we buy from grocery stores, walmart, eat fast food. Point is everything we do has a price! If you label yourself or anyone as bad or mean cause they exploit a natural instinct in pigeons then too late were already guilty for every other decision we have made. We have to set a standard for proper care and draw that line. Maybe PETA should stop confinement feeding lots and huge agribusiness that are treating animals bad, hurting the environment, and making people sick. Where were they for the Monsanto Protection Bill that was snuck into a budget bill? GMOs affects people, plants, and animals

Example: Other than shipping birds we provide most of what they have in nature but with much more ease and convenience. Shelter, food, water, exercise, etc.. Unless you collect your own eggs or buy from a local farm. Battery cage eggs come from chickens that are debeaked, stuffed into a small cage, fed other dead chickens, never see the sun grass or anything natural. They breathe in ammonia and fecal dust from all the manure from 100s or thousands of birds. The manure cause a whole other issue!!

We can make some choices! Like eating local or your own food. But unless your willing to go back to caveman days we have to live the way we want and let the price be paid. We can choose to have pigeons but treat them the very best we can. Or choose not to keep them.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Crazy Pete said:


> As Paul Harvey would put it, the rest of the story.
> 
> I watched the video several times, some thing looked out of place, then it hit me no shadow, so after a bit of research, they don't turn the birds out till 1300 hours=1:00 pm. So any birds that came home on the day is fantastic.
> 
> ...


The reason for a later release is To have the birds out over night. Then get home the next day. in several of the longer races And as we race miles they race Kilometers Which our distance is the longer But PETA is out to stop racing anyway they can


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

I don't see what good that will do if some make it home, and the last leg of the journey is over water.
Dave


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## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

I am myself not a racer,but i do keep homing pigeons for the love of it and do train & toss them just as a hobby.I think PETA is overreacting,if they want racing sport to be banned,they are indirectly putting this breed's existence in danger.Why would anybody keep homing pigeons,when they don't have the freedom to train,toss or race them in the first place.Keeping pigeon is like a meditation.Any kid who enters this hobby of pigeon keeping learns responsibility,competitive spirit,respects time and these birds keeps them away from the usual teenage troubles and stuff.
On the other hand,i know there are fanciers who kill birds just because its not good enough or sick.Which i don't support.If at all they think the birds are not good enough according to their standards,they should give away the birds to any local pet stores or the kids entering the hobby rather than killing/culling it .One man's garbage may be another man's Treasure.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

re lee said:


> We use MILES here in the US other parts of the world use kilometers which is less then miles And do not think the birds are flying 900 miles. NOW PETA is on the ATTACK. And just as the part where it showed several birds down in the water not being able to get out. I wonder if that was STAGED, As how could they come across them in a boat not knowing the line of flight. AND WHY if it was real did they PETA not rescue them MAKES one wonder. They as I have said started there campain when TYSONS show aired acouple of years back And they are building there case to stop not only pigeon racing But pigeon keeping of any kind. What they show on film Is what they want showed. There are graphic parts But they want that to get people to side with them. MAYBE if PETA showed on film to the public where they kill many animals Perhaps people would think they are cruel.As long as we have HUMANS and have animals and birds ECT mAn will want to interact with them. THE people who want to be vegin, and such CAN have there life BUT NOT force it on others. There is a certion amount of cruel things to all aspects of life The hawk KILLS birds Is it cruel or is it nature. kept pigeons Have a rather safe life and long life.


There are 900 mile races raced, Noone can dispute that, Nor can one dispute that some pigeons do get lost and some do end up in the water. Whether staged or not one would be delluded to say pigeons that race don't ever come to any harm.

I race, I care for my birds but not all do and what PETA argue cannot be disputed at all, They may be extremists in the way they present it but the facts are there

R LEE - do they not race 1000 miles in the USA? Do you agree some pigeons will end up in water when racing across it?


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

I would give $100,000.00(If I had it),to anyone who can take film of a PETA big shot eating MEAT of any kind...Why don`t we take up a collection,and put out a "Film Hit",on a few of the big dudes at Peta...Get the word out on the street that there is a "Hit" put out on them...Make them get scared to go out in public...Just think how embarrasing it would be if one of those big sob`s,get cought eating chicken/turkey/beef etc ??? Alamo


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

NZ Pigeon said:


> There are 900 mile races raced, Noone can dispute that, Nor can one dispute that some pigeons do get lost and some do end up in the water. Whether staged or not one would be delluded to say pigeons that race don't ever come to any harm.
> 
> I race, I care for my birds but not all do and what PETA argue cannot be disputed at all, They may be extremists in the way they present it but the facts are there
> 
> R LEE - do they not race 1000 miles in the USA? Do you agree some pigeons will end up in water when racing across it?


No the 1000 mile races have became a thing of the past in the U S. 500 and 600 mile races are pretty much it And far as facts They are not after facts They are after anybody keeping any animal or bird Or eating any kind of meat And the distance across the channel is not that many miles. But birds have been trained over water to swelect them. OSMAN did this long ago. What 150 miles over water. That is a ways over water. It is not about harm A pigeon will get harmed flying over your home. Nature has challenges And WW2 the birds flew over water when they had to. If Peta just wanted see the birds safe it would be another thing. And remember some lofts makes others HOMES look like a tent The birds get well taken care of And racing has its problems. How else will one learn if there birds are any good. Horse racing can kill a horse We all know that But they get raced


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## sev3ns0uls (Jul 2, 2011)

okay, this is very true. i agree with some of PETA said. I totally agree with Kingdizon too. It is very true especially for racer breeders on why keep a useless bird?? They have to go if they cannot perform right?

See the point is that "pigeon sport these days are totally not about the sport nor the birds anymore. Its about the jackpot "MONEY". Most racer will go to certain extends to get the pri$e despite of the cruelty they did to their birds.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

I dare them to go after the *Queen`s Loft *!! I think she has some money,that could afford some pretty stiff lawyers....Keep a stiff upper lip,your majesty,they will not bother coming after you...Just the little we ones !!! Alamo


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

peta-tells-queen-elizabeth-quit-racing-pigeons

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/mar/29/peta-tells-queen-elizabeth-quit-racing-pigeons/


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

PETA wants everyone to stop racing pigeons AND stop keeping pigeons. Thats what many do not get. It is not about just racing them Its about keeping any pigeon ECT. And to side with peta IS to side with destroying the hobby. If it was just about pigeons not getting home as safe as they could That would be something else. And when released even a mile from home dangers are there. WIREs hawks you name it. But NATURE rules in the wild meaning when realsed nature takes over NO person has control


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## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

kingdizon said:


> Accepted. Im a pigeon racer, not a PETA member


kingdizon what you say above may be true but you write and seem to agree a whole lot with PETA. 

I have to say that in my chosen profession we have a saying. If it walks talks and acts like a duck its probibly a duck. 

So If you side with PETA and chose to promote there agendas, even if your not a sworn member..... It makes you their agent and I for one want nothing to do with you!

.....................

Now with that said are there things we can do better absolutely we all know what those things are and should be working towards it in our own organizations. I will not be surprized if in the end the AU and IF take a stance against all money races and betting in any way on birds, even in the one loft races in those locations where it is legal. 

I truely believe we all do our best to keep our birds healthy and prepared for the races. But once released around the house, on training tosses and especially on races we have very limited control of what happens. we see attrition by hawks and falcons all the time, show me anyone (even you kingdizon if you truely are a pigeon flier) who hasnt had birds disappear on training tosses due to this. 

Simple fact is at least in California the Hawk and Falcon populations are one the rise, by huge numbers. Like condition freak I've had birds that raced extremily well out to the 350-400 mile mark never come home from simple 50 miles training tosses with no explenation as to why. I've had others who returned home but were so badly injured the only thing that could be done was to euthenize them so they would not be in pain as they passed. Still others that retruned home busted up that could be saved and are now breeding the next generation of my birds.

So for anyone especially a self proclaimed pigeon flier to side with the efforts and claims of PETA and to try and use a broad brush to claim we are all wrong for loving this sport. I for one say HOG wash and a DUCK by any other name is still a DUCK.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

The Queen Mother,just went to her estate with a big knife,so that she don`t have to race pigeons,because Peta don`t want her to have them...Not for nothing,but,what do you think would happen to every pigeon being kept by humans today,if a law was past you were not allowed to have them ?? There are thousands of city`s accross this country,who have poisened pigeons for years,to get rid of them...I guess Peta would rather have the local city governments kill them off,instead of us having them....Alamo


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

what ever you say, If they have reached the mother queen it means....checkmate
some law/restriction will be coming this way, SOON


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

Having homing pigeons is in my blood.

If a law is passed prohibiting owning them, be it local, state, or federal. I will have homing pigeons.

I had them when my landlord refused me the privilege to have any animals, of any kind.

I have had chickens in the city of Cleveland, when they were forbidden by local ordinance.

I have had Pit Bulls, even when they were prohibited by local ordinance.

I am going to do what I desire to do. Come hell or high water.

There are ways to cope, fight, and hide, the things we love and want.

If they fine me, I will just pay the fines. If they jail me, I will eventually get released. If they take my pigeons, I will get more.

I do not buckle under to laws that I do not agree with.

Call me a law breaker. It will not hurt my feelings. Stupid laws are..., well,....stupid.

In Nazi Germany. There were approved radio stations, and unaproved radio stations. The only radio that you could legally own, was one that only received the pre-set and pre-approved radio stations. That was a law.

Was disobeying that law, being a law breaker? Absolutely. But thank God for those particular law breakers.

I could go on and on, about the various laws in the U.S., prior to the civil war. Such as loggers having to set aside the best wood and timber, for the "Queens needs". Normal people could only buy the lower grades of lumber. One lumber owner decided to fight it. He broke the laws. He was beat up and arrested, for breaking the law. Another law was outrageous taxes. Which led to the Boston Tea Party.

Now look what that got him, and us. The greatest nation on the planet. Evah! It ain't perfect. But it beats the next best thing, by a large margin.

They can have my homing pigeons, "when they pry them from my cold dead hands". Oops, I mean, "when they take them from me and return them to the wild". (they will be back to me shortly after) 

Only half funning around with this post.


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## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

conditionfreak said:


> Having homing pigeons is in my blood.
> 
> If a law is passed prohibiting owning them, be it local, state, or federal. I will have homing pigeons.
> 
> ...


You make several good points even thou you were half funning around as you made them....

I believe this was the first (maybe second) tread that began talking about PETA and what they represent, by my count there are at least six other threads that have been started since this one with slightly different names but they are covering the same information.

As I have stated before and will restate here, Are there things we can do better at the local levels to stop PETA in its tracks and give them no additional cannon fodder, ABSOLUTELY. 

Watch when people come around who only want to know about losses and about gambling and send them on their respective ways. Don't entertain them or the subject matter, shut the talk down and thereby shut them down. 

I can only speak about my individual club. We are a smaller club and we don't bet (other than an occasional my white will beet yours, between two club members) and we try to ensure that all of our members are inocculating their birds on a regular basis. Other than this I'm not certain how much a club or organisation can to to limit loses.

Once the birds are released (from captivity according to PETA's plan) on race day. they have two choices, go wild (as PETA would like them to do) or attempt to travel home. Once they are on the road home they face obstickels such as weather (we can limit where and how they are released), Hawks and Falcons (we cannot control them), and in more recent years cell towers and wires such as power lines. 

Anyway my point is; control the things we can to the best of our abilities at the club and combine levels. to include vaccine use, training, release times and conditions and most of all controling what we say and to whom and it will go a long way to shutting down any complaint that PETA can and will try to use.


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## sdymacz (Aug 30, 2010)

If PETA would get their hand on a home raised pigeon they would do away with it.
Just like PETA's founder did with dogs in the animal shelter she worked in, because she didn't want them to be owned by anybody. 
PETA opposes the no kill movement, PETA euthanizes an estimated 85% of the animals that end up at their so called shelter.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinio...t_kill_all_the_animals_DnyhE723tSo64mkmmM9SUN

http://www.nokillnow.com/PETAIngridNewkirkResign.htm


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## Melsloft (Apr 27, 2007)

*!!!!!!!*



gbhman said:


> http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/mar/29/peta-tells-queen-elizabeth-quit-racing-pigeons/



Maybe someone should remind them how many lives were saved in wars using racing pigeons ,,, why don't they go after zoos aren't those TRUELY wild animals ?????


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

Melsloft , That is the big mystery with PETA they are all over the map so to speak . They say and do nothing about soarnomore. I haven't heard a peep about any agenda they have to stop Heifer International which sole purpose is to distribute animals to needy families around the world ( a good thing in my opinion)for the use as food and to reproduce these animals as food. I think you could use the word Hippocratic in that sentence some were .


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

ERIC K said:


> Melsloft , That is the big mystery with PETA they are all over the map so to speak . They say and do nothing about soarnomore. I haven't heard a peep about any agenda they have to stop Heifer International which sole purpose is to distribute animals to needy families around the world ( a good thing in my opinion)for the use as food and to reproduce these animals as food. I think you could use the word Hippocratic in that sentence some were .


I just googled Heifer International, what a great cause especially for other countries. Supply and demand here you can buy a lamb or goat for $80-150. In my country the price is $400-500 because so many people eat lamb, that a lot of people can't even afford to eat meat because they cost $400-$500 standing after they are processed a lot more per pound! A very great cause indeed!


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

Yes First to Hatch it is a good cause. A person can donate a flock of Ducks for as little as $20.00. When Christmas rolls around and you want to buy something for that person that has everything you can donate in their name and they get a thank you card in the mail.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I really think you all should contact PETA directly with your accusations and concerns. It would be very interesting what they might say.
Perhaps they could be invited to participate in this thread and all the other thread centered around them.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Charis said:


> I really think you all should contact PETA directly with your accusations and concerns. It would be very interesting what they might say.
> Perhaps they could be invited to participate in this thread and all the other thread centered around them.


If anyone from PETA registers as a member in the normal way, they can contribute to any thread, but I think we would expect them to be strictly upfront about their AR agenda.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

Charis said:


> I really think you all should contact PETA directly with your accusations and concerns. It would be very interesting what they might say.
> Perhaps they could be invited to participate in this thread and all the other thread centered around them.


I believe they are already watching and they can join in the conversation at anytime, but I don't think they will because it said in their job description for an undercover PETA investigator they must maintain strict confidentiality at all times.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

Those sneaky little guys,who dress up as women,are on here all the time....I wonder what color undies they are wearing ?? Alamo


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Hmm ... I know it's a jest, but let's not be accused of 'anything-phobic' comments, chaps.


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## Melsloft (Apr 27, 2007)

ERIC K said:


> Melsloft , That is the big mystery with PETA they are all over the map so to speak . They say and do nothing about soarnomore. I haven't heard a peep about any agenda they have to stop Heifer International which sole purpose is to distribute animals to needy families around the world ( a good thing in my opinion)for the use as food and to reproduce these animals as food. I think you could use the word Hippocratic in that sentence some were .


If they (PETA) wanted to really make a difference in the world they should help save all the un discovered species of animals that are lost are close to being lost in the rain forest from logging,,, now that is a valiant and more realistic cause,,,, if anything they should look at the show called pit bulls and parolees and learn something on animal cruelty and saving lives,,,, my brother breeds canaries and finches these are like racing pigeons pedigreed and valuable and are bred for certain traits,,, this is the art of breeding and it's a endless art of evolving a breed and considered cruelty,,, there are also contests for best songs from these birds similar to racing


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

Charis said:


> I really think you all should contact PETA directly with your accusations and concerns. It would be very interesting what they might say.
> Perhaps they could be invited to participate in this thread and all the other thread centered around them.


I think they leave this site alone, this site is not really about racing it's about helping pigeons in general. There are a lot of people like John D that rehab pigeons and other critters, that release them if possible.
Dave


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## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

Charis said:


> I really think you all should contact PETA directly with your accusations and concerns. It would be very interesting what they might say.
> Perhaps they could be invited to participate in this thread and all the other thread centered around them.


Charis if you want to know who the PETA members and/or sympathizers are? simply read between the lines in what they are saying, for example in the adoption forum there is a thread *Lost Homing Pigeon [Pictures] needs home - Southern California* by Pigeoff. 

Now Pigeoff claims to have contacted the actual owner of the bird but then goes to great leanths in saying that whomever gets the bird will do so minus the leg band. She is lucky I'm not the owner because she would find herslef in prison before it was done. it's called grand theft animal...... and no I do not believe she ever contacted anyone. simple fact is if she really had a racing pigeon and posted its band number arraingements could be made to ether force (group pressure goes along way if used properly) the owner to go get it or have someone pick it up for him.

My point is on this thread and the one posted by Pigeoff if you read what they are really saying its not hard to tell who and what they really are. And NO, bird lovers does not come to mind. Any responsible bird lover would make every attempt to return the birds to the rightfull owners no matter who they are. PETA sympathizers and/or members most deffenitely do not care aboout returning animals to the rightfull owners and will try to create any controversy they can to get others to see things in the image they try to represent.

*sdymacz *is correct when he stated the following, "If PETA would get their hand on a home raised pigeon they would do away with it. Just like PETA's founder did with dogs in the animal shelter she worked in, because she didn't want them to be owned by anybody. PETA opposes the no kill movement, PETA euthanizes an estimated 85% of the animals that end up at their so called shelter."

Charis go read the thread by Pigeoff and tell me who or what you really think is going on! Do you really believe she is not a PETA member and/or sympathizer? If you don't then you and some others on this website should open up about who and what you really are!

A Duck by any other name is still a Duck!


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

John D....Someone on this site posted that he needed help from PETA,and two guys showed up in drag at his house....They were Peta undercover PI`s.....I didn`t write my post above in jest...It is true,as it was written here by one of our own....Alamo


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

Some one posted that PETA sent a letter to the Queen, it took a bit of searching, the Queen gets over 3500 letters a day. I'm willing to bet that who ever reads the mail for her tossed that one out.
Dave

Well I could be a little off.

The Queen has received over 3 million items of correspondence during her reign.


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

I decided to visit (again), the PETA website. I clicked on the link to the staff of the PETA Foundation. It consist of seven people. At least three of those seven own pets.

Here is a link to that page. Read one entitled "Lori Kettler". In her words, she owns the following rescued pets:

"my one rescued dog, three rescued cats, and two rescued guinea pigs at my side. I spend my days—as do the thirteen other attorneys in the Foundation's Legal Department". 

Obviously an attorney for PETA, and a staff member.

http://www.peta.org/about/work-at-peta/jobs-employees.aspx

On paper, some of the work PETA attempts to do, is appealing to me personally. But as I have said several times. They just go way overboard. Not only in what they are trying to accomplish. But in how they do it. Dancing around naked or drenched in blood, is not how one changes things. I applaud them for trying to change how chicken farms are operated (I have personally seen it and it is terrible), and I applaud their work in the beef industry. Cattle with broken legs, being pushed by tractor buckets, into the slaughter house because a dead cow can not be received for slaughter (for money). So, if the cow is injured and the owner wants to sell it for slaughter, it is pushed, literally rolling around with a broken leg or two, into the slaughter house. Then it is slaughtered AFTER going through that misery and pain.

I know it will not make me very popular with pigeon keepers and flyers. But thems the facts. PETA is on the right track in come cases. But in others, they are off the tracks and into the ditch.

Sort of like your typical politician. They attempt to go too far, too quickly. They may all actually believe in what they preach. But they are also a non-profit organization, that makes a ton of money from donations. Some even laugh about how much they get to travel the country, doing their work, and enjoying seeing the sights on the donators dimes.

Always, always, always, follow the money.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

I agree with the humane part of their agenda...The chickens,cows,and especially calf`s...They are slaughtered so young...Never even having a chance to run around and play and enjoy somewhat of a short life....I agree with all of that...The wild horses also...But this "we as humans should not have pets"....This does not wash with me...I am a good owner of pigeons...If I could not take care of them,I would give them away...
I get very angry here,when I see dogs & cats running around,with no owner in sight...What happens is,there`s poop all over everyone`s grass,or a car runs over one of the roaming animals...If these people can`t properly take care of their pets,give them up...If you like/love them,take care of them..It`s so simple...Who can argue against someone who really puts forth effort in maintaining a happy/healthy pet or pets ?? Alamo


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

We have to remember PETA finds pigeon racing a cruel thing to do to the racing pigeons. So a threat will remain. And as time goes by they will get more backing from the unknowing And can work first at city and stae level to get it stopped. AS remember some cities will not now allow pigeons being kept. Which has been a problem for a few even on this forum. Not only not being able to race birds but not being able to have them in city limits. That can be a start Then stae level And permits to bring them across state lines ECT, methods take time and these methods I mentioned can work aginst pigeon keeping. IF they become sought after and pushed by the right people.


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

I am not totally agreed with what PETA is saying like dancing naked; to me it’s like dealing an extreme with another extreme or going veggie (plants are also living creatures, I knew it from the 5th grade, science has proved that they have feelings also so for those who care about lives don’t eat vegetables, even bacteria, viruses, electrons and protons are living organisms, so don’t eat yogurt etc.)

*But I find PETA campaign a success due to the reasons*

It’s discussed and debated here and may be everywhere without even their presence, it means they are heard

I myself also a bit concern after all these discussions when I see my birds and feel myself a culprit for holding like 70-80 birds though I live in a region where any related legislation or if there is, its implementation does not exist 
Most people on this forum seem to be in favor or at some extent to their agenda

They have mailed the constitutional monarchy of United Kingdom which means that they have enough votes/people and enough evidence at hand to help their campaign, now even if she gets a million mails everyday she will ethically feel responsible to respond to the public opinion and their concerns, not today but may be some day 

In a democratic state if you have 60% people with you, you can make a change so most probably the authorities will come up with something 

Now I am really interested to know what the pigeon breeders, fanciers and keepers are doing in respond to their campaign, if there is any!!


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Pijlover said:


> ....
> 
> *But I find PETA campaign a success due to the reasons*
> 
> ...


That is surely true! The more their activities prompt discussion, the more prominent the PETA name becomes. 

It's also kinda like PETA pulls the strings and we dance - whenever they get up to something, we react with threads about it, even starting more than one thread on occasion on the same topic, or rehashing old reports.

I'm seeing the same PETA stuff reported on Facebook with people, who seem to have their heads buried in the sand when it comes to the AR agenda, being impressed by the PETA publicity, and who evidently do not comprehend the difference between animal welfare and animal rights.


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## ejb3810 (May 21, 2012)

To me PETA is a DEPLORABLE organization! They are responsible for the death of thousands of animals each year which could be rehomed if an honest effort were made by them.
I contacted ASPCA and asked how such an organization as PETA could go unchallenged by them as the most cruel thing that can happen is for an animal to be euthanized which could be placed as a loving companion to some willing person. Would you guess the response ? NONE.
So as far as I am concerned ASPCA can kiss my grits, and they will never again get a dollar from me!


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

ejb3810 said:


> To me PETA is a DEPLORABLE organization! They are responsible for the death of thousands of animals each year which could be rehomed if an honest effort were made by them.
> I contacted ASPCA and asked how such an organization as PETA could go unchallenged by them as the most cruel thing that can happen is for an animal to be euthanized which could be placed as a loving companion to some willing person. Would you guess the response ? NONE.
> So as far as I am concerned ASPCA can kiss my grits, and they will never again get a dollar from me!


I'm as much against PETA as anyone, but isn't the problem that thousands of animals _cannot_ be rehomed each year, because there are just _not_ enough people who are happy to take on one or two homeless animals (be it dogs, cats or whatever). Unfortunately, lot of people are picky and very specific in what they will adopt, particularly when it comes to the so-called 'bully' breeds of dogs.

Personally, I think PETA should just not have homeless shelters for animals at all. It gives them a 'legal' way of practising their doctrine of better dead than captive, because they _know_ they could not rehome all these unfortunates before they even take them in


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## ejb3810 (May 21, 2012)

There is another organization in close proximity to PETAs facility that has remarkably different results in the rehoming of animals that they take in. The rehome to death statistic is a near reversal of the PETA statistic.
PETA makes no substantial effort to place the animals that they possess with a home. Those that are rehomed are a token number to deceive the public into believing them to be an honorable organization.
The real purpose of PETA is to line the pockets of the founders and key employees. I would challenge anyone to do some real investigating and come to some other rational conclusion.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

ejb3810 said:


> There is another organization in close proximity to PETAs facility that has remarkably different results in the rehoming of animals that they take in. The rehome to death statistic is a near reversal of the PETA statistic.
> PETA makes no substantial effort to place the animals that they possess with a home. Those that are rehomed are a token number to deceive the public into believing them to be an honorable organization.
> The real purpose of PETA is to line the pockets of the founders and key employees. I would challenge anyone to do some real investigating and come to some other rational conclusion.


Yes, I don't believe it is more than a token effort, either. It is part of the agenda, that is, reduce the number of captive animals over time to none at all.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

I've come to the conclusion that PETA although they got the head line and most assuredly will raise capital for their cause, will never reach their ultimate goal. They claim to have a total gross capital of almost 31 million dollars, you can read that on their 2012 financial report.
The meat and poultry industry alone generate $832 billion in the US each year. That's 5.8% of total GDP. They provide 6.2 million jobs worth another $200 billion in wages. $81 billion in federal revenues and 2.4 billion in state sales tax.
The Pet industry adds another 56.67 billion with pet food sales and veterinary services alone. 
Add to the mix the global company's like Nestle, Mars, Hagen,Tetra, Pfizer are banking on the expansion of pet and pet health products in countries like Brazil, Russia, India, and China. Who has the money now.


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