# How many Pigeons can this cage hold safely?



## pigeonsrock (Dec 10, 2006)

I am wondering how many pigeons can be kept in this cage safely(not overcrowding). Not counting the legs it is L 4ft H 3ft W 2.5ft 







Sorry, the second picture is a little blurry.


----------



## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Possibly a mated pair, but I wouldn't keep any more than two
compatible pigeons in this space. Hopefully they would get free flight
time as well, jmo.

fp


----------



## pigeonsrock (Dec 10, 2006)

They would be getting free flight. The picture makes it seem a lot smaller than it really is.


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

pigeonsrock said:


> I am wondering how many pigeons can be kept in this cage safely(not overcrowding). Not counting the legs it is L 4ft H 3ft W 2.5ft


3 X 2.5 = 7.5 X 4 = 30 divided by 15 = 2
Yep, one pair of birds.


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Ditto on that! Don't forget to put a solid bottom in the cage too.


----------



## pigeonsrock (Dec 10, 2006)

It has to be solid? I was going to keep it wire and put a piece of wood under to catch all of the poop.


----------



## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

If you are flying yr birds everyday you can hold between 6 to 9 pairs, i know this sounds alot but i have seen this qty in a cage this this size. althought my opinion would be based on what breed you plan to keep. if you are keeping small breeds such as owls you can keep about 6 pairs and if large breeds like kings 1 pair. if medium breed you can keep 4 pairs. the problem will be that the loft will get dirty very fast.


----------



## pigeonsrock (Dec 10, 2006)

I was hoping I could keep more than 1 pair in it. I will be keeping Oriental Rollers in it. I am not sure what size of bird they are though. Does anyone know?
I will clean it everyday.


----------



## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

its a medium breed, you can keep 4 pairs safely although it may look over crowded. You will have no space to keep young


----------



## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

pigeonsrock said:


> I was hoping I could keep more than 1 pair in it. I will be keeping Oriental Rollers in it. I am not sure what size of bird they are though. Does anyone know?
> I will clean it everyday.


Renee did the math for you on this one. Sure, you can pack them in there, but
even w/a clean cage if the numbers are too many it will be a stressful situation
for the birds and stress is a major contributor to 'host-equilibrium' diseases that
pigeons are known to have problems with. This specifically means that when under
stress, the bird has a difficult time keeping these health conditions in a state of 
equilibrium resulting in the numbers of the organism rising to the disease state.

fp


----------



## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

Just a little suggestion. If you were to split the cage in 2 horizontally you can have 2 pairs for breeding.


----------



## pigeonsrock (Dec 10, 2006)

I was just thinking about splitting into two! I might just try that!


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

warriec said:


> If you are flying yr birds everyday you can hold between 6 to 9 pairs, i know this sounds alot but i have seen this qty in a cage this this size. althought my opinion would be based on what breed you plan to keep. if you are keeping small breeds such as owls you can keep about 6 pairs and if large breeds like kings 1 pair. if medium breed you can keep 4 pairs. the problem will be that the loft will get dirty very fast.


Warriec, I've been reading just about all of your posts and for the most part, you are usually correct in the advice you give, BUT, this time you are WAY OFF BASE.......I don't care if he's keeping parakeets in this pen, 6 to 9 pair would still be to many. ANY one who cares about thier birds would NEVER pack them in a box like that. Sorry bud, but this time you are wrong wrong wrong..........You said "this sounds like a lot".........well that's because it IS alot.........


----------



## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

Renee, I have seen people keep so many birds in cages that size. they calculate it based on # of nest boxes hey can put in loft whict is 4ft high and 3 feet long we (not me) calculate it by the following way

if 1 nest box is 1ft x 1ft x 1 ft, then a cage which is 4ft high & 3 feet long can hold 9 nest boxes without next boxes on the ground level. I read that the minimum space for a pair of pigeons is 1.5 ft x 1.5ft as per a US regulation. I know this is small but to be honest i have seen breeders breed pigeons in such small cages and they have success too. It also mentioned that there is no harm if pigeons are not allowed to fly - also if a pigeon has never flown because the cage is small it will instantly fly away when given a chance.

I dont want to start an arguement here but these are facts that i read or seen but havent practiced for myself to be honest.


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

warriec,

I think it is inhumane to keep too many pigeons in such small quarters, just because you have seen many breeders do this doesn't make it right, also success....success for the breeder doesn't necessarily mean the birds are healthy or happy.

We do not advocate using more then the standard amount of pigeons for that size. It is inhumane to do so, and cruel.


----------



## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

Hi Treesa,

I am not doing it as its cruel. Its just what i have read and seen i have mentioned.


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

warriec said:


> Hi Treesa,
> 
> I am not doing it as its cruel. Its just what i have read and seen i have mentioned.


I understand that, but it is not good to advise someone else to do so.


----------



## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

warriec said:


> Renee, I have seen people keep so many birds in cages that size. they calculate it based on # of nest boxes hey can put in loft whict is 4ft high and 3 feet long we (not me) calculate it by the following way
> 
> if 1 nest box is 1ft x 1ft x 1 ft, then a cage which is 4ft high & 3 feet long can hold 9 nest boxes without next boxes on the ground level. I read that the minimum space for a pair of pigeons is 1.5 ft x 1.5ft as per a US regulation. I know this is small but to be honest i have seen breeders breed pigeons in such small cages and they have success too. It also mentioned that there is no harm if pigeons are not allowed to fly - also if a pigeon has never flown because the cage is small it will instantly fly away when given a chance.
> 
> I dont want to start an arguement here but these are facts that i read or seen but havent practiced for myself to be honest.




Warriec, I believe you that you have read this somewhere. But sometimes
we need to employ critical thinking when reading because there can be an
inherent bias in the views expressed. 

Take for instance the concept of there being no harm if a pigeon doesn't
have a chance to or is not allowed to fly. Common sense will tell us that if
a muscle isn't used regularly, it tends to go into atrophy. How in the world
could the wings support the weight of the body if they are not exersized
regularly? One of the things that rehabbers do before releasing a bird that
has been brought in for medical help is give that bird a chance to rebuild
the muscles responsible for operating the wings.  I don't think a bird out
of condition would do very well if apprehended by a hawk or other predator.

fp


----------



## JGregg (Jul 28, 2003)

I'm all for the use of a flight cage, birds need more room than just nest boxes.


----------



## Vivi (Sep 10, 2005)

To Lovebirds 

so dont want to pick your brain or anything but would this be correct?
Length 11, Height 6, width 4 

6x4=24x11=264 divided by 15= 17.6 (rounded up to 18) 
so will i be able to keep 18 pairs of birds in my future loft??

thanx 

Ruben


----------



## Vivi (Sep 10, 2005)

wups just check my math and i think its right but its 18 birds not pairs right?? just making sure that im right.

thanx


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Yep .. it's 18 birds and not 18 pairs  

Terry


----------



## piney_creek (Jun 5, 2006)

I have to agree with Renee and Treesa!

PINEY


----------



## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

Hi FP,

I can't find the article. Check the USDA regualtions or something like that about housing pigeons.


----------



## pigeonsrock (Dec 10, 2006)

Where can I find all the information about keeping pigeons in my area. As in how many I can keep and how much required room per bird.


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

pigeonsrock said:


> Where can I find all the information about keeping pigeons in my area. As in how many I can keep and how much required room per bird.


You need to check your city and/or county codes and ordinances. Those will tell you whether you can keep pigeons at all. The calculations here in this thread tell you how much space is required per pigeon realizing that more space may be needed depending on how you design and build your loft.

Terry


----------



## pigeonsrock (Dec 10, 2006)

I searched it on google and can't seem to find a website with the information. Do you have a website with each states or counties' information?


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

pigeonsrock said:


> I searched it on google and can't seem to find a website with the information. Do you have a website with each states or counties' information?


If you will tell me where you live, I'll see if I can find something for you. You can PM me the information if you would prefer.

Usually your city and county will both have a website with links to all the codes and ordinances .. it's a pain usually to actually find the information you need, but that is where it will be located.

Terry


----------



## learning (May 19, 2006)

File this in the whatever it's worth category, (and chances are it isn't worth much!) but over the last two years I have done _*a lot *_of research into the design of my new loft. I have read everything I could get my hands on. I have talked with numerous veterinarians and probably most enlightening I have visited many, many lofts. For me, the lofts that had the fewest birds per given amount of area consistantly seemed the calmest, most rested, less stressed and most healthy pigeons I found. Now, everyone is going to have their own opinion but I have committed myself to keeping a maximum, and I do mean an absolute maximum, of 200 birds in my facility. this would represent the end of breeding season when the young bird side is at its peak population. Now, having said that, my new loft is going to be about 820 square feet with about 580 square feet of that actuall living space for the birds. There will also be about 300 square feet of aviary space for the birds. There will be at least two perches for every bird in every section and the nest boxes will be 20" high X 30" long X 16" deep. In addition to extensive floor ventilation there will also be three automatic ventilation fans that can be programed to come on at any desired temperature or humidity. I am certainly not trying to share this in an effort to boast. I am simply using these figures to make a point. The math on this comes down to almost 3 square feet per bird plus aviary space when the loft is at its maximum capacity.

I know that many would say this is overkill and wasted space, however I really feel there are far too many stress and health risks involved with overcrowding to take any risks on this front. Of course everyone is free to do what they wish, but for me, the more space the better.

Like I said...for what it's worth! 

Dan


----------



## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

learning said:


> ...I know that many would say this is overkill and wasted space, however I really feel there are far too many stress and health risks involved with overcrowding to take any risks on this front. Of course everyone is free to do what they wish, but for me, the more space the better.
> Like I said...for what it's worth!
> Dan


Okay, Dan. I'm drooling over your set up!!! I've pasted this information into my wish list for our next renovation!


----------



## learning (May 19, 2006)

Terri,

If you do it the way I am doing it, it doesn't have to be a wish list, just an ongoing project! After almost a full year of construction I still don't have siding or a roof! Oh well, at least we are moving forward...slowly, painfully, patiently moving forward. 

I must say however that I am starting to feel a little twinge of pressure in getting this thing finished. I have commited to taking delivery of breeding stock in less than a year, so now that it is being measured in months instead of years it seems closer for some reason. It will get done, I just hope it is sometime before the next ice age!! 

Dan


----------



## kippermom (Jan 11, 2006)

I have just finished the floor and wall framing on a new loft...is the formula height x width x length, divided by 15?

...so my loft plan, which is 16 feet long, 8 feet wide and 8 feet high (not including a peaked roof) is 1,024 cubic feet, divided by 15 or a total of 68 birds? Since I only have 13 now, they should be in hog heaven! I do not fly them so we wanted plenty of elbow room....maxing out at about 20 or so birds...does this sound alright? Thx.


----------



## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

Thats very spacious. Good luck


----------



## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*Healthy Or Sick Birds*



pigeonsrock said:


> I am wondering how many pigeons can be kept in this cage safely(not overcrowding). Not counting the legs it is L 4ft H 3ft W 2.5ft
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Hi PIGEONSROCK, Let me tell you I have a breeding cage for _one pair_of AMERICAN SHOW RACERS, that is the size of your cage , so 2 birds if you want healthy birds more then 2 if you want sick birds because thats what you will have if you put more then 1 pair(2birds) in this cage. .GEORGE


----------

