# Baby dove with broken jaw



## jacobsshygrl (May 3, 2006)

Hello Everyone! It seems like ages since I've been on here. My babies are doing good, Winnie and Brodie finally started getting along (it only took them months, lol) and are constantly trying to hatch little ones (I almost feel guilty for not letting them, I just can't afford to have any more little bird brains running around). They moved out of my bedroom (which they owned and took weeks to intensely clean) and into their outdoor, above ground, aviary which is basically bigger than my first apartment. lol. They love it and they're happy. I promise I'll post pictures of it, and them, soon enough. 

But, onto the dilema at hand. Since the construction of the aviary we have had a lot of little morning doves hanging around (mostly for food droppings). I got the great opportunity to even watch a fledgling on his first few weeks of life being fed by his mother and father, while I was shingling the aviary roof. He has been hanging around ever since, and is now probably about two months old. This morning, while I was doing my bird feeding, I noticed him under the aviary. Usually if I get close enough they fly away, but he just sat there. I walked around closer to him, and he hopped a little. I noticed half of his face was completely ripped to shreds (sorry for the graphic picture).

I got closer, grabbed him, but he got away and flew to the neighbors garage roof (I thought this to be an excellent sign, that at least he was strong enough to fly). I was worried and checked back five minutes later and he was back under the aviary. I grabbed a sheet and caught him, put him in one of our large dog cages winnie and brodie used to sleep in, with food and water (with apple cider vinegar). I figured if it was that easy for me to catch him a racoon or cat would have NO difficulty, so he needed to be inside for a few days until he can escape a preditor. I put some antibacterial ointment on the side of his face (thats what they always told me to do for my quail when they had "boinking" injuries).

I had to go to work right away and came home about an hour ago. The food was scattered everywhere, giving the illusion that he had eaten some. I piled it all back together and it was about as much as I had given him this morning. There was no real poop in the cage, just some white "poop casing" smeared in a corner. This scared me. I put some safflower in the cage, figuring thats winnie and brodie's favorite treat, so if anything he'd eat that. He kept picking at it, for about twenty minutes, while I watched. I dont think he got a single piece actually in his mouth. He could pick it up with the edge of his beak but he'd drop it again.

He swatted at me when i tried to pick him up, which I thought to be a good sign, but then he didn't put up much struggle once I had him in my hands. I looked closer at his injuries, and noticed his entire jaw was swolen. his bottom beak is offset from his top beak, and he has a blister looking lump on the right side next to where his beak meets his face. His left eye is still very alert and knows exactly what is going on, but his right eye, i fear, is completely gone, or at least, for now, covered in scab. I figured he needed some food fast, because it must have been almost a whole day since he had eaten last, so I mixed up some chick starter and syringe fed him like I used to do with Winnie when he was a baby. He ate it very willingly, and I think I got a good amount in him. His crop, although its a lot harder for me to tell on a feathered bird than it was for me to do when winnie was a featherless runt, looked bigger than when i started. I cleaned him all off and put more antibacterial ointment on him and sent him back in the sock nest i'd made for him. 

So, basically, I'm asking for any and all advice. You guys have always helped me out and steered me in the right direction so I know you won't fail me now. Tell me what to do. Thanks guys!

Caitlynn


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Caitlyn,
It would be helpful if you could post a picture. Have you any idea how long ago the injury occurred? Did you notice the bird looking ok yesterday, for example?


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Do you have any antibiotics on hand and if so, what are they? This should
include any leftover prescriptions for humans on hand. Then any pictures that
you can take and post. Make sure you wash hands thoroughly before and 
after handling this bird, especially when going to handle/feed your own.
Thanks for taking this one in, no doubt it wouldn't have survived yet another
predation.

fp


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## jacobsshygrl (May 3, 2006)

I should have thought to upload pictures right away, i'm sorry, dumb me. Ok, here are a few close ups I just snapped. He wasn't a big fan of the flash. The white is the antibacterial ointment, he kind of made a mess of it after i put it on him, the other white thing is a safflower seed i guess he tried to eat and got stuck to the ointment. 

I hope this picture is clear enough. It looks a little different in person, but thats the way everything is. 

I didn't see him yesterday actually, which is weird because usually I see them every day. We have a few wild cats roaming our neighborhood, and lots of racoons. My immediate reaction was that it had to be an animal attack, but looking closer I thought maybe its a disease. I mean, it doesn't look like what I've been told canker looks like exactly, but i'm no expert. I still think he might have been attacked just because a lot of his back feathers are missing and hes got a lot of scabbing. I checked out that chevita diagnosis site and went over everything but could find nothing that seemed like his case. He hasn't lost his appetite at all like most of the sicknesses on there. Hes really really hungry, he just can't get any of the food in him unless I do the feeding.


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## jacobsshygrl (May 3, 2006)

ouch, the pictures look a lot worse i think than it actually is...especially with all the saflower stuck to his face. 

umm, as far as prescriptions, you name it we have it, we pretty much never finish our antibiotics, and have a few cabinets full (we've been a pretty unhealthy family the past few years). I mean, give me a name of something and I can look, if its a general drug for something common, we probably have it.


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## jacobsshygrl (May 3, 2006)

Oh yes, i'm being highly precautionary, antibacterial soap and hand sanitizer everywhere. I'm a germ freak to begin with.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

So the swelling seems to be mostly on one side?


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Cipro/Baytril, Metronidazole/Flagyl, Doxycycline, Augmentin....

Let us know what you have.


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## jacobsshygrl (May 3, 2006)

umm, yes it is only one side. The other side is entirely normal. 

Ok, this is what I have...

Tobradex (eye drops)
cephalexin/keflex (in capsule form)
biaxin (in pill form)
ciprofloxacin (ear drop form)

and bactroban (not over the counter, but perscription)

Anything else I can get, but I have to wait until monday. My mom works for a pediatrician and if I just tell them i'm sick and need ____ they'll write me a script.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

cephalexin/keflex, the strength?

fp


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

I'd prefer Baytril(Cipro) and Metronidazole combination for this bird. It may not
have suffered a predator's attack, but be a pretty sick bird. I'm thinking canker
plus infection and the combination of the two would cover a wide range.
Do you happen to have any Colloidal Silver?

fp


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

The dosing for Cephalexin, PO or IM is 35-50mg/kg every 6 hours, or 50-100mg/kg every 8 hours, or 100mg/kg every 12 hours for 7-10days from 
the formulary for pigeons in Exotic Companion Medicine Handbook.

fp


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

There are a thousand grams in a kg (kilogram). Can you find the weight of the bird? The rest is just the math.

fp


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## jacobsshygrl (May 3, 2006)

Do you think it is possible for me to wait to medicate him until monday and just make sure he eats and keep applying the bactroban? I can get just about anything on monday, and that way I can get it in smaller doses (because I only have pills of the meds you spoke of and there is no way I could get it into as small of a dose as he would need, hes really tiny...I'd be scared i'd give him too much if I guesstimated) and I can't get anything else until monday. 

The good news is he pooped. Two little ones, but I think they are decent size for his size (i'm used to giant winnie and brodie poops). They were substance and not just the clear white casing. This is the first hes actually pooped since this morning so I think the feeding is getting him something. I fed him once more and put him back to sleep. His crop was very full and he seemed very anxious to eat when he saw me grab the syringe....I think hes got the idea syringe = food now. I cleaned him off again and his bad eye is now open a quarter of the way, so I think thats a good sign, that means his eye is still there. He seems a lot more alert than before too, squirming when I was trying to clean him and getting mad at me.


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## jacobsshygrl (May 3, 2006)

i could easily weigh him, thats no problem, we have a pill scale or something my mom said, its just cutting the meds because they are pills...i'd have to cut them into like 18ths or something and theres no way i'd get even close to a accurate measurement. I'm really confused how the whole med dosage thing works, my mom knows more about it cuz shes a nurse, and she said theres no way we'd get a close measurement and if we could wait till monday it would be better. So the question is do you think he'll be fine until monday or will it get worse? I dont want to put him in any danger of having it get worse, but i dont want to cause more harm than good by giving him the wrong dose.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

If there's a way you can figure it out that wouold be best. He shouldn't wait until monday.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi jacobsshygrl,



Tried speed reading your thread so far...


This would seem to me to be an only too typical Canker presentation concentrated in the lower Mandible and mouth corner area, which in this case appearently also involves his Eye secondarily.


Of course the images how the situation with salve on it, so it is harder to judge the color and texture.


Does anyone else feel there is reason to suppose this to be a probable Canker presentation?


Lastly, how are the poops?

Is there any 'yellow' or pale yellow 'water color' like aspect to the Urates?

Anything to see in his Throat?


Good luck..!


Phil
L v


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

The drug that he probably needs the most is Metronidazole or some other anti-canker drug. Canker often looks a little different in doves than in pigeons. Doves will tend to get inflamed pinkish looking swelling a lot more without the cheesy buttons that we commonly see in the pigeons. Right now for this bird, you're more worried that there will be bad damage to the side bone on the lower mandible and so the longer he goes without the anti-canker medication the more danger there is of that. It's kinda' like this situation:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=20503

Anyhow, when you've got a big pill that you want to give to a really small bird, it's usually a matter of grinding it to powder (capsules are usually powder inside already) and then mixing it with a pre-determined amount of water so that one correct dose is some comfortable amount (like 1 milliliter) to give. That's what all the math is for and we usually have to do that case by case. It's all a part of your friendly service with a smile that you get at Pigeon-Talk.

Pidgey


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## jacobsshygrl (May 3, 2006)

well, good news, he made it through the night. There is a lot more poop in the cage, thought i'm still unsure how much hes getting when i feed him. Hes a lot sadder looking this morning, I'm sure the poor little one is in pain, though he did try to wriggle out of my hands again when I picked him up. I cleaned the area pretty good again and I can't tell if it has gotten any better or worse or stayed the same. I can't see all of the damage because I really dont want to make him open his beak that far because I'm sure it would hurt really bad. Even opening it a little so I can clean it makes him squint his other eye. Is there a more effective way to clean him than to use just water? i'm not sure if peroxide or alcohol or anything like that can be used on a bird, especially that close to his mouth where he could swollow it. Is there anything I can give him for the pain?


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## jacobsshygrl (May 3, 2006)

His poop looks fairly normal, no yellow, not watery, a little dark greener than my pigeons poops but fairly normal looking in texture and basic color. 

I'll try my best with the pills and see how close of a dosage I can get for him. 

Canker is extremely contagious correct? Now, my birds are all outside, but they'd have to have like eaten out of the same food as him or shared water or something to get it right? They can't just get it from like him sneezing through the chicken wire or something dumb like that right? I mean, I dont think there is anyway they could really be exposed to him/it unless it involves me not being sanitary enough and dealing with one after the other. Right?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, the dosage for an aspirin would be horrifically small for a bird this small. With pigeons, I give them about a half-milligram. It's honestly a flake that I shave off the side of a real aspirin (it can't have any Tylenol or anything else like that) that's about half the size of the head of a regular, steel sewing pin. You'd need one about 1/4 of that. You could give him one tiny piece of that three times per day and it might even help with the inflammation.

Pidgey


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Thanks for rescuing this little one. It looks like canker to me, and a very bad case of it too. 

A young dove usually weighs about 75-80 grams. If you can get the 250 mg tablets of Metronidazole, crush one into a fine powder. Put the powder in a small bottle, add 10 cc of sterile water and shake it really, really hard so the medicine doesn't settle to the bottom. This is really important. Immediately draw up the medicine in a 1 cc syringe and give it to the dove. Do this in the morning and evening.

Keep the medicine bottle in the refrigerator at all times. The amount you make up is usually sufficient for several days but remember to shake it really well each time.

If he weighs 80 grams the dosage would be .08 cc; at 100 gram weight- dosage would be .10 cc. If you can get the correct weight, we can give you the dosage.

Spartrix is also very good for canker and I believe some folks on here give them a Spartrix pill, in addition to the Metronidazole but I would rather they speak to that as we usually only have to give the Metronidazole.


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## jacobsshygrl (May 3, 2006)

Ok, we measured everything out and i got some into him. He weighs 75g, and the meds are 500kg so thank god mom had a bunch of syringes and such around to measure things out in. I'm doing the two doses a day thing. How long do you think it will take before I can expect to start seeing results and know if its working?


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## jacobsshygrl (May 3, 2006)

oh, sorry, the meds i'm using are the cephalexyn/keflex I spoke of earlier until I can get my hands on some of the meds you guys are recommending. How fast does canker spread and get this bad? Do you think the rest of his dove family/flock could have it? I haven't seen any of them in a few days which is weird.


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## jacobsshygrl (May 3, 2006)

oh...sorry for a million posts in a row...what would be a good prevention method so that not all the birds in the neighborhood get it? Is there anything I can do to prevent that?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I'm so glad he made it through the night.
Do you have Metronidazole?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, it's a tough question. Ideally, you do want the wild birds to be infected with a mild strain of Trichomonad that doesn't cause the problems like you're seeing in this bird. My local pigeons always have trichomonads but I rarely ever find one with anything even close to what you're seeing. If you attempt to treat your wild birds by the water, you may temporarily succeed and then cause a worse problem for them down the road.

Pidgey


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

jacobsshygrl said:


> * *Canker is extremely contagious correct?*
> 
> ** Now, *my birds are all outside,* *but they'd have to have like eaten out of the same food as him or shared water or something to get it right? *
> 
> They can't just get it from like him sneezing through the chicken wire or something dumb like that right? I mean, I dont think there is anyway they could really be exposed to him/it unless it involves me not being sanitary enough and dealing with one after the other. Right?


* Yes.

** Not necessarily. Birds can become infected by picking up even the smallest piece of canker that has dislodged from the infected bird's mouth. This often happens when an infected bird shakes his head. Canker can fly anywhere. All it takes is for another bird to mistakenly pick it up.

Cindy


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

jacobsshygrl said:


> He weighs 75g, and the meds are 500kg


You mean the meds are 500mg. Whenever you're talking about medications, it's very important to make absolutely sure on all the spelling and notations.

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

It does look like canker, but it also looks as though there is some significant
tissue damage there as well. Metronidazole is an antibiotic in addition to being a protozoal, 
true, but if you can get the combo in lieu of lab testing, you will cover a broad base w/the combination.

fp


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Just watch your birds closely and examine them daily.
Canker is very treatable and if caught early, won't present the horrendous problem you are seeing with this Dove.
Be proactive and always have on hand meds for emergency situations.
It's also good that you are a clean freak.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

The longest time frame that the Trichomonad organism will remain viable in the
environment is five days on some grain according to a Michigan Govt. site on the illness. So it's not like some other illenesses that have a long envirnonmental 'shelf' life. Also, that's the "outside" statistic on the viability of the
organsim. Under most circumstances, it survives outside of the host for a much shorter period of time.

Does your mother think that you can get both meds, Cipro and Metronidazole?
Also, do you have a pet store nearby that sells aquarium supplies? Frequently
you can get a product called Fishzole there. Perhaps try calling. Do you also
have any 1cc needleless syringes on hand?

fp


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Lady Tarheel said:


> ........
> 
> Spartrix is also very good for canker and I believe some folks on here give them a Spartrix pill, in addition to the Metronidazole but I would rather they speak to that as we usually only have to give the Metronidazole.



Maggie, there is such a range of dosing strengths and time frames for Metronidazole, that in a situation like this where there is no canker medication
on hand, a loading dose w/the Metronidazole would be a good idea and at
least give the initial strength of medicating that the combination of Spartrix and
Metronidazole would give.

fp


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## jacobsshygrl (May 3, 2006)

wow, a lot at once...ok....umm

first off, yes i meant mg, so so sorry...i've just been in a panicy state today and yesterday about this little guy that I am not speaking, or even thinking correctly. 

I don't have any Metronidazole, but if its a medicine also used for humans than I'm positive i can get it tomorrow. Again, if Cipro is a human medicine as well then I can get that too. They'll write me a script for whatever I want as long as its possible a human would need to take it. I'll try to get it in as small of doses as possible so I can more easily cut it to his little birdie dose. I know very little, if anything about medications...science in general has always been my weak subject...these names flying around are way above my head, thank god I have my mom here to translate everything into Caitlynn speak. 

As for syringes, I have 1cc syringes but they have needles on them because they're for my brother's allergy shots. I can try to get a few tomorrow at the office when I go to get the Rx, but right now we're using a 1cc syringe with the needle cut off.


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## jacobsshygrl (May 3, 2006)

oh, sorry, forgot about the "fishzole." I'm going to call around to a few petstores and see if any A. have it, and B. are open on a sunday. Now what do I do with that? What is it?


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

jacobsshygrl said:


> oh, sorry, forgot about the "fishzole." I'm going to call around to a few petstores and see if any A. have it, and B. are open on a sunday. Now what do I do with that? What is it?


Fishzole is another name for Flagyl which is another name for Metronidazole.
So even if in 250mg pills or capsules, get it and use LadyTarheels instructions
for dosing. Can your Mom get you a needle less syringe? 

fp


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Here's a link to a sticky in the Resource Section on how to crop medicate:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=15696

fp


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

jacobsshygrl said:


> .......thank god I have my mom here to translate everything into Caitlynn speak.
> 
> As for syringes, I have 1cc syringes but they have needles on them because they're for my brother's allergy shots. I can try to get a few tomorrow at the office when I go to get the Rx, but right now we're using a 1cc syringe with the needle cut off.


Caitlynn, frequently vets offices have needle-less syringes and they will sell
a couple to you very reasonably especially if you explain you are trying to help
a sick pet pigeon until you can get it to an avian vet. (Cat and dog hospitals
will have these syringes, usually, or at least they do around here),

If the area where you cut the needle off is at all abrasive, it could scrape the
tissue when sliding it down the throat, this would be my concern. 

fp


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Some of the diabetic syringes have needles attached which can be easily removed - the needle simply pulls out. Yours may be the kind that we have recently encountered where the needle is "built in" to the syringe. Our vet made up about 10 of those for us filled with Baytril to dose a baby pigeon but I just didn't like the way it looked with part of the needle still exposed so used my own syringes with needles that I can remove.

 That is on my list of things to ask my vet - whether it is safe to break those needles off and still give the meds. 


fp - what do you mean by a "loading dose" - double strength?


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## jacobsshygrl (May 3, 2006)

OK, I called our local "seaescapes" figuring if any pet store in the area had fishzole that would be the one....the guy one the phone was really trying to help me but he said all they have is tetramyacine (sp?) which they have in either gell packs or 500 mg tablets. Would this suffice?


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Lady Tarheel said:


> .....
> 
> That is on my list of things to ask my vet - whether it is safe to break those needles off and still give the meds.
> 
> ...


Yes, Maggie, a loading dose is double in strength to get the med delivered.

You know, I don't know what to say on the breaking of syringes, I do know that Cole/Colette's throat was raw and scraped just from the cut in the tubing and how it rubbed against the tissue when inserted. I also just worry
about giving the Trichomonad population entry to the blood stream, those 
would be my concerns.

fp


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

jacobsshygrl said:


> OK, I called our local "seaescapes" figuring if any pet store in the area had fishzole that would be the one....the guy one the phone was really trying to help me but he said all they have is tetramyacine (sp?) which they have in either gell packs or 500 mg tablets. Would this suffice?


It won't touch the "Canker". Any other stores you can try calling? Otherwise,
it's Monday for the meds.

fp


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

jacobsshygrl said:


> His poop looks fairly normal, no yellow, not watery, a little dark greener than my pigeons poops but fairly normal looking in texture and basic color.
> 
> I'll try my best with the pills and see how close of a dosage I can get for him.
> 
> Canker is extremely contagious correct? Now, my birds are all outside, but they'd have to have like eaten out of the same food as him or shared water or something to get it right? They can't just get it from like him sneezing through the chicken wire or something dumb like that right? I mean, I dont think there is anyway they could really be exposed to him/it unless it involves me not being sanitary enough and dealing with one after the other. Right?




Sharing Water between infected and non infected Birds, especially in in very small Bowls...

Eating Seeds that have fresh wet infected poop on them...


Thats about it as for it being contageous...


Do you have very small whole Seeds, like Finch Seed or Parakeet Seed?


Is he pecking? He might be able to eat...and if poops are coming through from foods he ate before you got him, chances are he can eat.

If the poops you are seeing are merely dabs of dark 'green' goo, like htick paint, this is not poop at all then, but Bile, and would suggest he has been starving...

I forgot, where are you?


And, do you have Antiprotozoal Meds, such as Metronidazole or Ronidazole?



Good luck..!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## jacobsshygrl (May 3, 2006)

umm, no i dont have any of those meds but i can get them probably...ummm, I'm in a suburb of Chicago....I dont know how else to get food in him, I really can't open his beak without causing him a great deal of pain. I got the meds in by squirting them (I'm not touching him with the syringes at all so no worry about scraping, i'm just placing them around his beak like the cut open syringe feeding method for baby pigeons, I thought he was getting some in him (its hard to tell when most of it ends up on my lap) but if that green stuff is stomach bile than I dont know. He hasn't pecked at the seeds at all today, yesterday he tried for hours and could pick it up but kept dropping them. he was drinking water today by himself, which he hadn't done before. I took him out of the garage for a little while to sunbathe and he seemed to enjoy it. I'm going to go try to actually get food in him again. I'm so scared that hes not actually eating and I've never tube fed a bird, it scares me to death, i know how to do it from reading everything but i know i'd mess up.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

If the bird is drinking water, then the bird could conceivably suck up baby
bird formula that was watery enough. Or, human baby food as that might
be easier for you to get your hands on. Gerbers chicken and rice puree w/some
warm water from the tap (no microwave) added to it. If the bird gets comfort
from being in your lap, maybe do the baggie method of feeding and put the
watered down Gerbers in there and see if the bird can take some nutrients in
that way.

You'd still have to handle the beak w/the soaked puppy chow.

fp


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

The medication that we were talking about earlier, Metronidazole which also
is sold for as Flagyl or Fishzole is the one that you as a human could get a 
script for. I believe the human version is Flagyl. If you can get Cipro as
well, that would be ideal, there's alot of tissue damage there and we don't 
have any lab work that would confirm strictly a protozoal infection.

fp


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Caitlynn, another way that you could get some nutrients into the bird that
would be non-invasive and/or leave the beak alone for now until the medicine
arrives, would be to get a dropper and drop the water-ized Gerbers alongside the beak much the same way you would do for a bird that you were giving the International Rehydrating Solution to (IRS). When they feel the fluid along
the upper mandible, they will draw it in.

fp


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi jacobsshygirl,


If he will drink, he can drink his meds.

Possibly, as fp is suggesting, he could also drink a thin formula.


If you can get some "K-T' at 'pettsmart' or the likes, while there, also get a tube of 'Nutrical'...add equal volumes of these two in a small Cup and add Water enough to cover with a little to spare...let sit covered in the frige for a 1/2 hour or so, so it can hydrate...then warm it in a pan of warm water, in whatever smll cup or other the formula itself is 'in', adding to it whatever additional Water it needs to be thin and soupy...stirr well.

You want it to be body temperature when you serve it.

Having him drink this out of the hollow side of a regular soft rubber baby-nipple would be a very easy way to manage things, and, to add definite doses of meds to...adding the dose to the first nipple full...only fill the nipple 7/8ths 'full' or so so it won't slosh out when he is drinking.

Med-water can even be a between meal thing...

Soaking is Beak, or is soaking it in effect, when drinking, can allow it to open better or open more, also...

Formula must be body temp for best odds of him accepting it...


Good luck..!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## jacobsshygrl (May 3, 2006)

fp, thats actually kind of what i've been doing except with ground chick starter, making it a nice liquid solution and squirting it alongside his beak...he smacks his tongue up and down and makes a swallowing motion so I assumed I was getting food in him but now, since they said that dark green paste like stuff is bile, i'm not so sure. I just had my mom hold him while I opened his beak to let food in and he ate it a lot easier that way. He got a little mad at me, and very messy, but I think I got some in him.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

That sounds good. Frequently when they are sick, you have to hand feed them
so that they will keep up their reserves. It's not going to be as much as he 
might normally self feed when feeling well, but the meds will be here tomorrow, 
and the Flagyl (Metronidazole) and Baytril will kick in noticably so by the
second day. Before you know it, s/he'll turn the corner and be on the road
to recovery and forever indebted to you for your care  .

I would continue w/hand feeding while medicating to make sure s/he is getting
something in there.

fp


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

jacobsshygrl said:


> fp, thats actually kind of what i've been doing except with ground chick starter, making it a nice liquid solution and squirting it alongside his beak...he smacks his tongue up and down and makes a swallowing motion so I assumed I was getting food in him but now, since they said that dark green paste like stuff is bile, i'm not so sure. I just had my mom hold him while I opened his beak to let food in and he ate it a lot easier that way. He got a little mad at me, and very messy, but I think I got some in him.



Hi jacobsshygirl,



You can take a sheet of white paper, and with a finger tip, smear the 'green' material in a streak.


If it is Bile, it will be like a paint with no texture...if it is fecal matter, it will be full of tiny fibres.


If he will drink/eat from the hollow of a Nipple, it is much safer for him than putting liquids onto or into his Beak...as well as, allowing far far more to be eaten/drank, and far far more quickly...so it is much more effecient and practical.


While this is generally for Babys or the very young, it will sometimes work very well for the flegdling-age ones or even occasional Adults who are injured or ill.

The quantitys he needs to be getting down would take all day if it owuld even work, trying to dribble stuff onto the side of his beak.


Here are some images -

http://public.fotki.com/PhilBphil/baby_dove_-_july/


Small whole Seeds can be added to the thin formula also, if he can consume them along with the liquids, which most will.


Please do consider to get the "K-T" and "Nutrical"...they will work well for this...and will be much better than anything else.



Best wishes!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## jacobsshygrl (May 3, 2006)

Sorry it took me so long to respond, i haven't been online in a few days. Monday morning he was very very weak so i took him to an wildlife rescue place a few towns over. They said they've dealt with cases like his before. I was extremely happy to find them, because I've come into contact with injured animals before and so few of these kinds of places exist (and the ones that do are constantly folding over because of lack of fundings). Anyway, I just figured they'd know what was best for him.


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