# Found a fledgling pigeon at work, a few questions



## joeyboy (May 12, 2010)

Hey folks, first poster here. Just had a little read through the stickies but I still have a few questions. Obviously I've rescued a pigeon, just your average city pigeon. It came spiralling down from the roof next door, it had apparently been sitting shivering outside for a couple of hours before a fellow member of staff discussed it with me, I was told a young boy also kicked it ... . I didn't want to stress it too much so I haven't had a full work over but it isn't bleeding, one wing is certainly fine, the other I haven't seen it open fully but it doesn't mean it's damaged. Looks in pretty good condition to me.

Firstly here are some photos so folks in the know can give me an idea of it's age, it's pretty big, though not adult size obviously and has yellow hairs on it's front region...












While carrying it home it was calm mostly, but occasionally put up resistance pushing my hands with both wings(had no box to put it in..), so at least it has some energy. Got some odd looks but a guy on a bike stopped, obviously a keen birder, anyway he's given me some seed, looks like your generic bird feeder stuff, he said he thought I'd have to look after it for 3 weeks.

I've put it in an old wicker cat carrier, I've put two old jumpers in to give it something soft to sit on, I thought it might appreciate that more then just kitchen paper. I can bung them in the wash when it has a few poos.











Riiight so onto some questions....


FEEDING AND WATERING....

1) I noticed a guide discussed seed but not insects. Should I feed it insect prey, I keep exotics so I have crickets and can get meal/morio worms, live or dried. I don't mind tongue feeding if it still needs it, should I provide insects for it? If I do is it an all you can eat buffet or a set amount?

2) When it comes to seeds, should I place them in a bowl and it'll eat when it's hungry or do I need to hand feed?

3) When it comes to water to I provide a dish(not too shallow as I've read about how they drink) or should I drip water via a pipette and hope it'll open it's beak?

ENCLOSURE

1) Is this cat carrier ok? I might change to kitchen towel as I suppose it could get it's claws stuck in clothing. 

2) Currently it's in my bedroom as it's by the far the warmest room in the house and to keep my cat out. Though I have my TV on, will that stress it out too much?

EXERCISE

3) If it survives the next few days I was thinking of letting it roam the bathroom when I'm with it, we have quite a big bathroom so it could just have a walk and flap about. I'd do it outside but the cats are an issue, and I have no rabbit hutch or something similar, but I could always let it out for a few minutes to get a bit of sunlight until it's a bit bigger, then I'll just take it somewhere out of the way to hopefully fly.

Right, that's all I can think of for now, If anyone could answer the above questions and if you have anything to add as well that would be super.


----------



## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Hi

Thanks for taking this little one in.

They don't eat insects - they are seed and grain eaters, but at that age it will need to be fed a hand rearing mix.

Will ask someone to check this thread. Whereabouts are you - UK?

John


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Thank you for bringing him to safety, I can't believe anyone would kick a baby like that.

This link should help you with determining a baby pigeon's age

My guess is about 17 days old, but I have never hatched baby pigeons, just taaken them in when they have fallen from the nest.

I think he might be old enough to be fed warm, defrosted peas and corn...this link shows you how:

Hand feeding a pigeon

I would feed three times a day, about 30 pieces at a time, or until he loses interst and the crop feels like a beany baby.

This link shows other things you can feed him and other ways to feed. He is still young enough to adapt to any of the methods illustrated.

Rescuing a baby pigeon


And if you are in the UK, this is a link to the rescue centres that will take feral pigeons:

Pigeon and Dove Rescue UK Resources

Cynthia


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

BTW, it would be best not to release him yourself, take him to a rehabber where he will learn to mix with other pigeons and be released as part of a flock, that would increase his chances of survival.

Roaming the bathroom will be fine, just make certain the toilt lid is down! 

Cynthia


----------



## joeyboy (May 12, 2010)

John_D said:


> Hi
> 
> Thanks for taking this little one in.
> 
> ...


aye England
,
Nottingham. 

Right so the poster below has estimated 17 days, had a look at those links, that photo of feral pigeons has them at 12 days old, and mine seems to have a little less yellow then those, so I guess a couple of days up to a week older? So let's say it's 2-3 weeks old, am I meant to be liquidising the food into a bottle as shown there or do I feed it bird seed and as suggested by someone below defrosted frozen peas and sweetcorn?

Should I feed it or leave it until tomorrow now? It's just gone from a head up pose to it's head tucked a bit under the wing, a seemingly sleeping pose if that makes sense, I put a thick blanket over the cat biscuit as my light is still on but obviously it's night outside. Obviously if it can't go 10hrs without food I won't risk it, but it seems to suggest pigeon chicks don't eat as often as others and that twice or three times a day is ok. Obviously though it fell out of the nest at say 3pm....hmmm

also just clarification on water, so it's a 2-3 week old chick, am I giving it standing water to drink from or shall I force it's beak open and use a pipette to give it just a few drops?(I read I have to be sure the pipette is near the back of the mouth/throat area as there is a hole nearer the front for air which won't close.


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

There is a risk of it becoming dehydrated if it goes too long without water. You could mix 1/2 pint of warm water with 1/2 teaspoon of salt and 1/2 tablespoon glucose, or honey or sugar (in order of preference) and dip his beak in that to encourage him to drink. From the poop in the picture it appears he has eaten and is digesting food. The honey/sugar etc would keep his energy levels up.

At that age his parents would still be crop feeding him, but they would be feeding him soaked seeds. My first rescue was about that age and I hand fed her seed soaked in hot/boiling water for half and hour or so. The peas/corn suggestion is a compromise, it is easier for pigeons to digest as it is soft but has more body than the liquidised or strained food . And it is easy to feed to the pigeon.

Just as a precaution, can you open his mouth and check that it is clean and pink, no cheesy growths?

Cynthia


----------



## joeyboy (May 12, 2010)

Feefo said:


> There is a risk of it becoming dehydrated if it goes too long without water. You could mix 1/2 pint of warm water with 1/2 teaspoon of salt and 1/2 tablespoon glucose, or honey or sugar (in order of preference) and dip his beak in that to encourage him to drink. From the poop in the picture it appears he has eaten and is digesting food. The honey/sugar etc would keep his energy levels up.
> 
> At that age his parents would still be crop feeding him, but they would be feeding him soaked seeds. My first rescue was about that age and I hand fed her seed soaked in hot/boiling water for half and hour or so. The peas/corn suggestion is a compromise, it is easier for pigeons to digest as it is soft but has more body than the liquidised or strained food . And it is easy to feed to the pigeon.
> 
> ...


ok, so you think it is worth waking it to have a look and dab some salt/sugar water in it's mouth? Do you mean put the water mixture in a bowl and dip his beak in so he'll "suck" it up, which is apparently how pigeons drink, or is it too young to drink on it's own from standing water and I should use a pipette to make sure the drops of water go down the back and not down the lungs near the front. In the video the person seems to just place the pea in it's mouth, is a pea too big to go down this lung tube or what, doesn't seem the person is forcing to the back of the mouth.


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I mean mix the sugar and salt in the water, dip the tip of the beak in so that it doesn't cover the nostrils. It should be able to suck water up at that age.

The pea is too big to go down the trachea, just push it gently to the back of the mouth and it should swallow.

If the pigeon doesn't drink on its own you can use a pippette, but I find it safer to drop the water into the bowl that is formed by the front part of the lower beak...then the pigeon should swallow normally and not aspirate. Putting the water into the back of the throat can be dangerous, if the pigeon struggles suddenly things can go wrong.

Cynthia


----------



## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

I think younger than 17 days, IMHO...just judging by her/his proportions. I say 12-14 tops.

At that age, not sure they recognize seed as food....does he/she have any pecking interest in it ? if not, you should go to handfeeding her thawed peas and corn...about 12-15 pieces per feeding, feed 4x day. It's very easy to do and the good part is it also provides hydration. Just pop one piece on a toothpick or end of a syringe, pry beack open and pop it behind their windpipe opening (which is at the base of the tongue). You could go with baby bird formula, etc...but honestly, that gets trickier while the peas and corn is super easy to administer.

Is she active or listless ? Does she seem alert or sleepy/eyes droopy ? Double check for any cuts/scrapes/lesions. Keep her in a warm environment....

Good idea to search out a rehabber if you can find one. Be careful, though, as some will just put the baby down. She won't be able to be released until 7-8 weeks old, and then only after she has undergone a 'soft release' process for at least a week.

And thanks for saving her/him !!!!


----------



## PigeonQueen (Aug 13, 2006)

Hi there!

Burton Wildlife rescue centre covers the Nottingham area. The two phone numbers I have for them are :

07780742748 or 0776465464 one of these numbers is a 24hour number not sure which one.

Best of luck Jayne


----------



## joeyboy (May 12, 2010)

Feefo said:


> I mean mix the sugar and salt in the water, dip the tip of the beak in so that it doesn't cover the nostrils. It should be able to suck water up at that age.
> 
> The pea is too big to go down the trachea, just push it gently to the back of the mouth and it should swallow.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the info.

I made it the salt and sugar solution, didn't seem impressed to be picked up haha, I dipped the first cm of the beak into the water, it seemed to calm it down, though to be honest I'm not sure it was drinking, but I did it for a 10 seconds a few times then it thrashed, so maybe it was a sign it was finished, either way the front area had a soak so I'm sure it got some moisture. 

Shall I run some frozen petit pois under warm water now or wait until morning, I wasn't sure if I should feed it at night or not or let it try and sleep again, it's done another similarly sloppy poo so at least it seems to have been digesting food from before.

Can I use tinned sweetcorn and wash that or will it have absorbed too much salt/brine?

Since we've discussed peas and sweetcorn, do I just give it those two for the next few days or try dampening bird seed and see if it'll go for that?

It's pruning itself now. Will it chirp when it's hungry like other chicks/young birds often do?


----------



## joeyboy (May 12, 2010)

Hmmm seems I might need four hands for this job, this pigeon really does not want me trying to open it's beak like in that video, it struggles far too much and starts getting flustered and cheeping, should I be more firm or leave it until the morning?


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

His cheeping and fluttering are probably begging for food! If you point your hand downwards and slide his beak between your fore finger and middle finger he will probably gape, so you can pop a pea in.

What baby pigeons do when they are being fed by their parents is put their beak inside the parents beak and gape, the parent pigeon pumps food into the baby's beak, Sliding his beak between your fingers makes him think he has his beak inside the parent's mouth.

The important thing is that he has some of the rehydrating solution mentioned in an earlier post, so please dip his beak in that mixture while it is warm. If you find he struggles too much then wrap him in a towel.

I think that you might find it less stressful if you contact Burton Wildlife REscue. They will collect the baby (I think they have introduced a fee of £5.00 for that. Why struggle to raise him yourself if there is someone that can do it for you? After all, he will really need to go to a rescue centre before release.

Cynthia


----------



## joeyboy (May 12, 2010)

Feefo said:


> His cheeping and fluttering are probably begging for food! If you point your hand downwards and slide his beak between your fore finger and middle finger he will probably gape, so you can pop a pea in.
> 
> What baby pigeons do when they are being fed by their parents is put their beak inside the parents beak and gape, the parent pigeon pumps food into the baby's beak, Sliding his beak between your fingers makes him think he has his beak inside the parent's mouth.
> 
> ...


I meant he only chirps after my prolonged attempts, I assumed it was stress, I'll give it another ago though. As said I already dipped his beak in several times earlier, though I'll do it again with a fresh mix. I'll ring them tomorrow morning to discuss collection or me dropping it off.

cheers for the advice.

time for pea feeding, these are petit pois, they still look pretty big but then it looked big in that demonstration video.


----------



## joeyboy (May 12, 2010)

ugh...this one doesn't like to co-operate, shakes beak like mad, I don't want to damage the poor thing, when it does seem to show interest it just turns it's head sideways and nudges at it with it's beak closed, not helpful little pigeon.

But...after nearly 30 mins..we got 8 half peas down it...so 4 peas!

Did that water thing again too, one problem is I can't find my tweezers so I've had to use my fingers and it's 2:30am here now, can't really go round rummaging. I'll have to find them first thing and get rather more half peas down it! It's cleaning again, lots of dust and rubbish has come off, at least it's got some energy...Ring them folks tomorrow certainly, I'm trying my best haha.

This is why I'll stick to inverts and reptiles I think, pretty much self sufficient out of the egg!


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Let us know how you get along with Burton Widlife Rescue plave.

You fon't need tweezers to feed a baby pigeon, just your fingers . Wash your hands afterwards.

Cynthia


----------



## joeyboy (May 12, 2010)

the person with the experience is at work, I;ve been told to ring again in 2hrs.

I've been looking at a few videos of folks using a syringe and putting it in the pigeons mouth, I think I may try this as at least I can get something more substantial down it and I suppose the parents regurgitate. 

If I make up one of those thick liquid meals, how many ml should I give it?

Is the idea that this pigeon is a bit old are that method of feeding? Sorry if it's unsuitable, I just thought it might be better to ensure it's had something until this women can sort me out.


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Joeyboy, 


Juvelile Pigeons we may wish to feed, fresh from their parents and their being used to that...we need to rather simulate at least a few of the features the parent-feeding had...for the youngster to be able to respond and for him to participate volentarily and with enthusiasm.


Moisten your fingers in warm Water...shake the drops off, so they are merely moist and warm. If your hands are cold, get them warm first.

Softly, from the front, from about his chest height, softly take his Beak in your warm moist finger tips, between thumb and index finger tips, and, see if you can thus invite him to 'Nuzzle'.

Nuzzling in this sense, is his asking you to feed him.


Nuzzling is a tentative to assertive pushing he will do with his Beak, usually accompanied by Wing shrugging and vocal Squeaking.


If you can get him Nuzzling...you can gently guide his Beak into a tepid - just a little less warm than body temperature - water, or water/eletolyte solution.

It must be close to body temperature, or he will reject it.

Just use plain Water.

Or, if you wish dissolve merely a pinch of common Salt, and one of Sugar, into say a six ounce Glass of tepid Water, or into a Tea Cup, and use that.


You have to keep your finger tips softly on the sides of his Beak for him to willingly drink this way...so if he drinks, as he drinks, keep your finger tips on the sides of his Beak.//or he will very likely stop otherwise before getting enough.


Once you two have done this a few times, try the same thing with a low little Bowl or Shot Glass or small Tea Cup of small whole Seeds. Seeds need to be at least in inch deep.

I generally do this with a Towel layed over my Lap, and, the Bird more or less lightly under my left hand...right hand manages his Beak and the Seed Bowl...where...

Keeping your moist-warm finger tips on the sides of his Beak, softly guide it into the low bowl of small whole Seeds, and, he will 'gobble' them...opening and closing his Beak, and eating the Seeds that way, very like he would have been doing were it inserted into his Pigeon-Parent's Throat for being fed by them in their manner of it.


These things then are 'close enough' for the youngster to accept them for feeding and watering.


Observe his Crop, where the food and water are initially stored when eaten, which is on the front of his Body...small meals often are to be preferred to large ones seldom.

See if you can notice how his Crop gets larger with feeding...and, try not to over feed, since they love to eat and often will eat too much if allowed.


Does his poops/urates show yellowish tint to the 'white' component? Streaky yellowish tint?

Let us know if it does.


Good luck!


Let us know how this goes.


Phil
Las Vegas


----------



## joeyboy (May 12, 2010)

thanks for that info, just about to ring the rescue place again. Tried your finger method, it certainly seemed to bury it's beak into my shot of seeds and seemed to eat a few, not that many though, seemed to have a bit of water too.

I'm going to have to go out for an hour or so after this. I've left the water and seeds in with it(heavy bowls) just in case it works it for itself. 

It seems to be flapping about in there now, kind of agitated, should I let it out into a bigger space. I feel really bad that I'm trying but it doesn't seem to eat a lot, hopefully this rescue place will be able to help.

I looked at a guide online where a man got a syringe, chopped the end off and put a latex gloves finger over that, then cut a hole in it, he filled with a paste he had made, then put the pigeons beak into the slit and it seemed to wolf down his mixture, I was thinking I could try that? I've got someone to bring me some of those style syringes(they work at a lab, got loads).


----------



## joeyboy (May 12, 2010)

Just rang the woman again, she's going to come get it!

Tonight at around 7pm.

Also I've put the blanket over the enclosure again to calm it down, but I just had a peak and it's next to the water with a damp beak, think it might have worked it out!

Good job I think, I was going to start trying some other online methods but it seems I'm a bit rubbish when it comes to getting a pigeon to feed.....think I'll stick to my invertebrates, reptiles and amphibians...


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

That is good news!

He will need to eat a bit more before this evening. Try the latex glove and syringe method, it works on the same principle as bottle method and the syringe and balloon method at this link:

http://pigeonrescueuk.webs.com/rescuingababypigeon.htm

...Just a glove finger with a slit in it,(turned inside out so that there is no talc or anything inside) filled with Ready Brek mixed to a creamy consistency with warm water will do. Screw the top of the glove finger up so that the food goes towards the slit.

The food must be served warm: 39C, just a tniy bit warmer than our body heat. Use the wrist test to check it if you haven't got a thermometer.


----------



## joeyboy (May 12, 2010)

Feefo said:


> That is good news!
> 
> He will need to eat a bit more before this evening. Try the latex glove and syringe method, it works on the same principle as bottle method and the syringe and balloon method at this link:
> 
> ...


Ok will do, won't get the syringe for 2 hrs yet, but as soon as I do I'll give it a go.

I don't ready brek but I assume most porridge oat things are pretty similar, I have those packs with sachets, so I'll just make it up with water not milk, only thing is usually you microwave it for 2 mins, shall I cook it with water rather then milk then let it stand till it's warm not hot, just adding warm water to these oats doesn't seem to work like ready brek does.


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

If you heat them in the microwave make certain that you stir thoroughly as there can be scalding pockets that would still be too hot after the rest has cooled down. A scalded crop is the last thing this pigeon needs.

And If you don't have a syringe, try the glove finger on its own....


----------



## joeyboy (May 12, 2010)

Feefo said:


> If you heat them in the microwave make certain that you stir thoroughly as there can be scalding pockets that would still be too hot after the rest has cooled down. A scalded crop is the last thing this pigeon needs.
> 
> And If you don't have a syringe, try the glove finger on its own....


back from physio! wooo!

Should have that syringe in 30 mins, I just had a peek, there's scattered seeds, I wonder if it's had a go at eating some.

Yeah I know about the whole stirring thing, I'll be sitting stirring it at my desk until it's cooled down.


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Please do not be so anxious to find success with zero effort and lass patience.


Slow down, work with the method I outlined, and do it patiently.


You are not going to be able to do any of these things on a first try, and the Syringe, if you screw up even a little, you can kill them.


Please stay with a safe method, which I outlined for you...which will benifit the youngster much more than a Syringe will.


The youngster is not going to magically be eating on his own merely because you leave seeds and water in his cage when giving up.

He has never seen Seeds or Water to recognise them as something associated with wishing to eat or drink - he has untill now been fed by his parents, by inserting his Beak into their Throtas for them to bring food and water "up" from their Crops.

Feeding and Watering him as I had outlined, allows him to SEE the Seeds and Water, amd to experience eating and drinking them directly, and, over a few sessions, allows him to make the connection, and to begin pecking or drinking on his own.

A Syringe offers no such amenities.



Please take your time, re-read the missive, and try it over again, slowly, and with patience...as if it were worth doing, because it is worth doing.


----------



## joeyboy (May 12, 2010)

no worries now folks the woman came a bit early anyway, I wasn't in but apparently she seemed really nice, said it looked healthy. It's going to be hand reared by professional folks now.


----------

