# Help with 4 day old squab!



## demi (May 21, 2008)

I have a 4 day old squab that is eating and eliminating well, but has a big crop. What can I do? 
He does not seem bothered by it, but I was told that I should not feed him unless it is emply. If I waited for it to empty, he will surely die. I did give him apple cider vigenar and Pedialyte mixture and rubbed him but to no avail. Is he really suffereing? I live in a small town and may not be able to get to an (aviation) vet. Demi


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

demi said:


> I have a 4 day old squab that is eating and eliminating well, but has a big crop. What can I do?
> He does not seem bothered by it, but I was told that I should not feed him unless it is emply. If I waited for it to empty, he will surely die. I did give him apple cider vigenar and Pedialyte mixture and rubbed him but to no avail. Is he really suffereing? I live in a small town and may not be able to get to an (aviation) vet. Demi


Demi, I'm going to see if I can get a moderator to move your post to the correct section so that people will read it. 
Can I ask, what are you feeding this baby? Why are you feeding it? Can you post a picture? I'm not sure that I can give you any advice, but there are folks here that can..........we've just got to get their attention...........don't go away.


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## demi (May 21, 2008)

*Thanks for your time!*

Hi,

If the baby pigeon's crop is still big, he will not die from not being fed?

He wakes up after a couple of hours and start cherping, extending his neck.

Should I just leave him alone without feeding anything? Not even water?
Demi


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

demi said:


> I have a 4 day old squab that is eating and eliminating well, but has a big crop. What can I do?
> He does not seem bothered by it, but I was told that I should not feed him unless it is emply. If I waited for it to empty, he will surely die. I did give him apple cider vigenar and Pedialyte mixture and rubbed him but to no avail. Is he really suffereing? I live in a small town and may not be able to get to an (aviation) vet. Demi


Does it look like he has air in his crop? Can you post a picture?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

How are you keeping him warm?


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## Grimaldy (Feb 25, 2007)

Hi Demi;

Your squab may well be infected with an adenovirus. The symptoms are a puffy crop, lethargy and inability to fly. The crop feels exactly like an inflated ballon in its chest when you press down on it. A healthy squab should be fanning its wings regularly and acting like it wants to take off, alert, lively and active.

There is not a lot you can do for viral infections except keep alert to secondary bacterial infection. I have had some moderate success with Lugol's Iodine Solution, and another member tells me he has also used Lugol's for viral gastrointestinal problems as well. You can get it at a drug store or come back and I or somebody will walk you through making it. Meantime keep him warm and make food available to him if he will eat. If he refuses food two days, consider force feeding.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Grimaldy said:


> Hi Demi;
> 
> Your squab may well be infected with an adenovirus. The symptoms are a puffy crop, lethargy and inability to fly. The crop feels exactly like an inflated ballon in its chest when you press down on it. A healthy squab should be fanning its wings regularly and acting like it wants to take off, alert, lively and active.
> 
> There is not a lot you can do for viral infections except keep alert to secondary bacterial infection. I have had some moderate success with Lugol's Iodine Solution, and another member tells me he has also used Lugol's for viral gastrointestinal problems as well. You can get it at a drug store or come back and I or somebody will walk you through making it. Meantime keep him warm and make food available to him if he will eat. If he refuses food two days, consider force feeding.


It's a 4 day old baby.
Crops become stagnant if the baby is not kept warm enough and or if the squab is fed before the crop has emptied. Depending on the feeding method, the crop can also fill with air. It is really important to keep this baby warm so as to better advise you, please tell us how you are doing that.
Do not feed this baby until the crop empties. Continue to gently massage the crop. What are you feeding?
A picture would be really helpful.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Where are the parents?

What are you feeding the baby?

You should not feed until the crop is empty.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Crops become stagnant if the baby is not kept warm enough and or if the squab is fed before the crop has emptied. Depending on the feeding method, the crop can also fill with air. It is really important to keep this baby warm so as to better advise you, please tell us how you are doing that.
Do not feed this baby until the crop empties. Continue to gently massage the crop. What are you feeding?
A picture would be really helpful.


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## demi (May 21, 2008)

*Thank you for your time*

I have purchased a heating pad. A small clear plastic case is placed on top and in it is a small cotton wash cloth on which Peep is sitting.

And yes his crop( is this supposed to be plural?) is filled with air, too.

Talking to you already is making me feel better that I am doing something, and I appreciate your time very much. Demi


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## demi (May 21, 2008)

*Ps*

I am feeding him baby bird food 'exact'.

I am mixing a little more water so as not to make it so thick and pasty.

I use syringe and put the food in his mouth. I try to put it as far as I can but I may not be doing it right. Demi


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## demi (May 21, 2008)

We found a squab and a few eggs in our swamp cooler when we cleaned it to use for the summer on this past Saturday.

We never had any pets before and absolutely knew nothing about the care of birds. We did go on internet to get some information but without actually seeing how it is done, it is very difficult. We have lost 2 squabs that hatched after a couple of days. They were over-heated because we put them in the garage where the temperature was too high.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Please don't set the heating pad any higher than LOW.
When the babies are very young, the formula should be runny. I mix it with warm water and then leave it set for a minute. After it had set, I add more warm water to get it the thickness I want. Always throw away unused formula. A 4-5 day old pigeon should be eating about 2 cc's at a time. You must let the crop empty before feeding again. I think the baby is gulping air when you feed. There are some links here that can show you how to feed. I will go find them.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

This on heat.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f20/providing-heat-to-orphaned-birds-13600.html

This on feeding methods.
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f25/various-methods-to-feed-young-squabs-9682.html


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## demi (May 21, 2008)

Dear Charis,

The picture is very helpful to me, but ours is so small and still wabbly that I am afraid it won't work. I will try it, though.

I think I am warming him enough with the heating pad. For a while I was carrying him around in the pouch I made to hang on my chest.


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## demi (May 21, 2008)

I have successfully made an appointment with a bird doctor.

I will see how she manages to treat his filled crop.

Thank you so much for your help.

After losing two babies, and it was so traumatic - this unexpected adventure we were not even looking for - I can not bear to lose him too. Demi


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## demi (May 21, 2008)

He does wake up and eats. He cherps and extend his neck. I am usring a syringe to feed him baby bird formula, every few hours. But I will wait this time and wait for the crop to empty. I am just so afraid that if he doesn't eat, he will die. He is kept warm in a small plastic box on a heating pad with a cotton wash towel underneath.

He is always sleepy, except when I feed him. I did make an appointment with a bird doctor this afternoon. I will let you know how he was treated. Thank you. Demi


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## Grimaldy (Feb 25, 2007)

Hi Demi,

Here is a website with photos about what a full and empty crop should look 
like:http://www.urbanwildlifesociety.org/WLR/BabyPij&DuvFeedg.htm


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## demi (May 21, 2008)

*peeps*

Dear friends,

Yesterday, I took Peeps to the vet and I was reassured that everything is fine with him. By then, his crop was completely empty, and I felt much better that his body is functioning normally.

After Monday, though, when he lost two of his brothers and was left alone, it seems that he became very inactive. Even after eating and taking what seems to be a very long nap, he hardly moves. He just sits quietly either falling asleep some more or meditating(?). Is this normal? He has been now with us for 5 days. He was already outside of his eggshell when we discovered him, so he could be older than 5 days.

Another thing is that we have changed our feeding to 'balloon' method which gives him the food so fast all at once that he fills up very quickly. Whereas the feeding used to take 20 minutes before, it now takes less than a minute. It is, I understand, more like the mother feeding a chick, and better for him. But is there a danger of over-feeding him? Because, in order to push the food to him we have to prepare more food than he consumes at one time, having to put the whole beak inside the food. Also, it is very messy and I have to clean him up afterward, like a real humn baby. I am thinking about making a bib for him.....

Any thought you can give me will be very much appreciated. Demi


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Demo,
When it took you 20 minutes to feed him, he was getting too much air in his crop. I am wondering if your baby is really a pigeon because pigeons only have 2 babies at a time.
It would be really helpful if you could have your daughter post a picture when she gets home from school. The other option would be she email it to me or start a album for you on your home page.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Charis said:


> Demo,
> I am wondering if your baby is really a pigeon because pigeons only have 2 babies at a time.


I have been wondering the same thing. The location of the nest in a cooler is unusual plus the eggs. I'm thinking it may be a finch, sparrow or even wrens. Also, you would think vets would know the difference but they don't always.

Please do post a picture so we can identify what species this is. Songbirds have totally different needs than those of pigeons, i.e., crop isn't even in the same place, they are fed different diets, they take smaller amounts of food and require more frequent feedings. If it is something like a wren, they require even more intensive care and food that has no starch in it.

I suppose it could be a dove but they lay only two eggs.


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## Grim (Jul 28, 2007)

i hand fed two racers the way described. When they begged I would hold the beak open with two fingers and syringe some food in the back of the throat. I raised them from 7 days to weaning and they are still with me. Sometimes their crops would be full and they would still beg. I ignored them and eventually it would empty.


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

It could be that two pairs of pigeons parents (say that ten times real fast!) laid their eggs near each other. 

The baby will peep and peep when he sees you, even if his crop is full. That's just his reaction to seeing his "parent" (which he is starting to recognize you as). It is common for them to sleep most of the time at a few days old, just like human newborns. 

The picture you saw of the feeding method is really a great method, and he should do well with that. Try to keep the syringe tilted almost up and down, so that the formula goes in when he eats and not air. 

It's just fine to give him a sponge bath with warm water when he's messy. Then you can pat him dry, put him back in his box, and change the towel after a few minutes so he's not sitting on a damp towel. 

When you mix fofmula (you mentioned you make more than he uses each time), be sure to throw that formula away and make a new batch every feeding time. You can use a teaspoon to measure for a smaller amount of formula. It is good to start with one part formula, two parts water, let it sit for a minute, then add a bit more water. It should be runny and not thick at all at his age. Then you will gradually thicken it as he gets bigger until it is about the consistency of melted ice cream, but not yet. 

If you have a soft stuffed animal or a new feather duster, he would like that to snuggle with probably. 

Thanks for saving this pigeon and trying to save the other babies. It takes a lot of effort and care, and I think it's wonderful that you guys are doing such a great job!!


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## demi (May 21, 2008)

Dear Bird lovers,

Our 'Peep' is a pigeon, I am sure. The swamp cooler on top of the roof was nested by pigeon family or families for the second time. When our daughter insisted that she goes up there with her father to look at the pigeon's nest, that's when our unexpected adventure began. 

Our baby pigeon is doing fine, except for the splayed leg which may be broken also. I have to make another trip to the vet.

We have become very attached to the little thing. He opened his eyes wide for the first time yesterday. I will see if I can attach some pictures - I am not very adept at using the computer, sorry to say.

Please be assured that we are doing everything we can to treat him well. I even call him 'King Peepy', when he settles himself after feeding to take a nap looking so high and mighty. Demi


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## demi (May 21, 2008)

How did you get pictures posted?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Here's how to post them inside your posts. You do however have a place where you can create an album if you'd like and it's SO much easier to put the pictures there. Just click on "User CP" at the top of the thread page and click on pictures and albums. I think you'll see how to post a pic then.


http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=17782


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

LOL, I didn't know what a swamp cooler was but it sounds like a type of air cooling system on the roof which pigeons would love. I was thinking more of a chest type cooler you put drinks in. Makes perfect sense now.


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## demi (May 21, 2008)

*Hello bird lovers,*

Our baby pigeon named Peep is doing well.

He is being treated for his splayed leg. It's been a couple of days and he is already keeping his legs by his side, but there is something wrong with his left leg. It is extended in front of him and he does not seem to be able to bend where the first ( thigh) joint is. I have another vet appointment this afternoon to see if they can help him.

He is, as far as we know, 12 days old. He opened his eyes fully yesterday. He looks so much cuter with his eyes open. I can see that his wings are getting bigger.

I don't know how to send pictures to this site, but I will try later.
Have a great day everyone!! Demi


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## demi (May 21, 2008)

I am going to have to let my daughter or husband know what you said. I am computer illiterate. Thank you for your time. Demi


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

demi said:


> *He is, as far as we know, 12 days old.* He opened his eyes fully yesterday. He looks so much cuter with his eyes open. I can see that his wings are getting bigger.
> 
> I don't know how to send pictures to this site, but I will try later.
> Have a great day everyone!!
> Demi


Appreciate the updates, Demi.

Here's the link to Dolly & Dumpling's photo album. I took pictures each day for a month. 
Maybe it will help you to determine how old Peppy is. 
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f24/dolly-amp-dumplings-photo-album-25391.html

Cindy


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## demi (May 21, 2008)

Dear bird lovers,

Our baby pigeon is doing well. The visit today to the vet told us that he didn't have a broen leg, though his right leg is almost totally extended straight out to the front of him and needs correcting. She make a hobble brace and put it on, but because the distance between his first joint on his right leg and the same place on his left is so much that it came off soon after we got home. I may try a home-made brace on him. Other than that, he going great - eating well, and pooping well.


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## demi (May 21, 2008)

PS
Our Peep is 12 days old today. He opened his eyes widely yesterday. He may be ugly to others but awfully cute to us!!!


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Happy Belated Birthday, Peep!!! 

May you continue to thrive and grow in leaps and bounds!!! I hope to see a picture of you all grown up!!


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## demi (May 21, 2008)

I still can't figure out how to send pictures, but if you e-mail me at:
[email protected], I will forward all the pics to you. Thanks. Demi


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## Dezirrae (Oct 6, 2007)

I sent Demi an email offering to have her email me the pictures & I'd take care of posting them.

So thankful the little guy/girl sounds like s/he's doing so well!


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

The little pigeon is doing well although he does have one leg that is splayed. I've sent Demi some links to correct the problem. She also took him to the vet yesterday to show her how to make the correction, but the tape came off shortly after they left the clinic.
I'm going to call Demi later today to see if I can talk her through it.


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## Dezirrae (Oct 6, 2007)

Here are the pictures Demi sent -- she'll need to provide more info. on each one though.


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## Dezirrae (Oct 6, 2007)




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## Dezirrae (Oct 6, 2007)

and the final two of the splint. I'll send Demi an email letting her know they're posted.


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## demi (May 21, 2008)

*to ASWhitefeather*

I just now saw your beautiful pigeon family.

Our peep has very dark colored beaks. He did look just like your babies when he was 1 or 2 days old. Everyday, I can see a little change in him and know that he is growing bigger.

There were 2 that hatched after we brought down the eggs. The one I thought was already a day old squab is the one that is still with us. So I thught until I saw your pictures. Now comparring him with your pigeons, it is very possible that Peep is the one that hatched after he was brought down as an egg.

He looks like between 10 or 11 days old, from comparison. Could he be a little premature and so he is a few days behind? He still has baby fur on him but showing a start of featherring, I think.

How much food did they ate at 12 or 13 days old, do you remember?

He is now being treated for his splayed leg ( right ). I have mentioned the wrong side in my message before, sorry. With Charis' help I am managing this with confidence, I am very happy to say. His grip is still weak on the right foot but, they are looking more normal now.

I will be posting more pictures as soon as I can.

Thank you so much for the pictures. I can see why you are so proud of this family of pigeons. Demi


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## demi (May 21, 2008)

Dear brid lovers:

Grimaldy, Lady Tarheel, Maryjane, Lovebords, AZWhitefeather, and Charis,

Our Peep is thriving, with your kind help, I am happy to report. My life is going back to almost normal. Our daughter now has a pet pigeon that she is taking care of ( she does 70% of the feeding ), instead of a dog for which she was saving.

Our next goal is to make a bigger box or cage for Peep. If you have any suggestions as to how we can make a nice one for him we will be very glad to listen. For now, though, Peep has a brace, being placed in a very tight quarter, and can't move but wiggle his toes and flutter his wings a little. Demi


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## Dezirrae (Oct 6, 2007)

I'm thrilled to hear continueing progress & good news! That is wonderful!! Sorry for having to post pix & run yesterday - my husband and I were running late for a car show. 

When you have more to post I'd be happy to post them for you - or I'd be glad to walk you through how to create your own album. Of course, Charis (I'm sure) would be glad to as well.

I'm just relieved and so happy about the progress - thank you so much for taking such good care of this little one.


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## demi (May 21, 2008)

I have omitted the names,

Dezirrae, and Trees Gray. Please know that I truly appreciate everyone's help and concern. Peep doesn't look very handsome in the pictures but he is becoming quite good looking as days pass. I am sorry for the spelling errors, too.

Of the two pictures, the brace #1 was made by our vet and it came off as soon as we got home. #2 was made by me. It is somewhat loose but right now Peep is wearing it and it is doing its job correcting his leg.


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## demi (May 21, 2008)

Just an update on Peep:

He was at the vet's office today to have his 'vet wrap' changed.
The doctor said that his leg is improving. It ( the right leg ) used to extend way beyound his head - because his knee is bent the wrong way, which, unfortunately, is his deformity - but now it's at around his shoulder. He would have to wear the bandage for a long long time.

He is growing feathers now and preening busily every day. I am in the process of purchasing a big cage for him.

Have a great weekend, everyone!! Demi


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thanks for the update, Demi! I'm glad the little one is improving and hope that you will have a good outcome here. We certainly appreciate all your efforts on behalf of the little one.

Terry


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## demi (May 21, 2008)

*update on Peep and questions*

Dear Bird Lovers,

Thanks to your useful information and advice, Peep is 24 days old today.

He is still wearing a 'vet wrap' which is correcting his stance to where both feet are closer to being even allowing him to stand, instead of their being so far apart that he could not even balance hismself to stand. He is hobbling around in his small box, busily preening himself every day.

My husband, my daughter and I are in the process of building a pigeon coop in the back yard. The weather here in Kingman, AZ, is mild enough that if we could provide enough space, proper cage, water, food, and protection from predators, we will be alble to let him be in there in time for him to fly a little. It is only the bone structure which is actually a dog kennel, 13' x 7.5' that is 
6 feet high chain link enclosure. We are yet to construct a ledge which would be covered on 3 sides - technically 5 sides. I am looking at the pictures of coops that others built in their yard and getting some ideas how mine should be. Because, there is, unfortunately or fortunately, no way we can let him fly around free in the house ( or garage ) because of our limited space. We want to make sure that he is safe yet given some freedom to be a real bird. I will be getting a wire cage for when he has to be in the house such as when there is a severe weather forecast, he is sick, etc. 

I agree and would like to comply with what Charis says; Peep needs a companion. I will do my best to find him one. Ideally it is going to be one with a bad leg also. (If Peep turns out to be a boy which we think he is, would it be better to get another boy? or girl? If we could not determine Peep's sex, it may not matter which one we will be getting though....)

Here is my question: He is eating between 15 to 20 ml. of baby bird food - powder mixed with warm water - 4 times a day, every 5 1/2 to 6 hours now. Is it proper at his age? He is probably just about ready to go into mixed diet, I think. What is the best way to introduce him the seeds and water, from your experience? Since he did not get mother's feeding, is there anything extra I should be giving him besides just ordinary diet? (He is given a tea spoon of plain yogurt a day by Charis' recommendation.)

I thank you in advance for your time and kindness. Demi


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

demi said:


> Dear Bird Lovers,
> 
> Thanks to your useful information and advice, Peep is 24 days old today.
> 
> ...


Well, as far as getting another pigeon, you may want to hold off on that for a while. I wouldn't assume just yet that you need another disabled bird. With enough time, it's very possible that Peeps legs will be just fine and he'll be a normal pigeon and will be fine with another normal pigeon. You can't normally tell if a pigeon is male or female until they are at least 4 months old and with only having one pigeon and no others to interact with, it may be even harder to determine the sex. If after a few months you're still not sure of Peeps sex, then your best bet would be to get a female. Two females will get along just fine and of course a male and female would get along. You'd probably have problems with two males. They're just too territorial most of the time and simply don't want to share their space. 
At 24 days old, he should be ready to switch to a seed diet. This is how I wean any babies that I have to hand raise. I get some seeds and open the birds mouth and drop them in one at a time or a few at a time, depending on what type of seed it is and how big it is. Let them get a "taste" for the seeds. Then I place a bowl of seeds in front of them swish it around with my finger and get their attention and try to get them to peck. You can also place some on a towel and peck with your finger. Once they learn to pick them up, they usually just drop them the first few times. Then they discover they can actually swallow them. That's all it takes. To get them to drink water you can dunk their beaks in it and see if they'll take a drink. I also drop a few seeds in the water. They usually try to get the seeds out and discover that the water is there and take a drink. The first few days that Peeps eats and drinks on his own, you may have to "remind" him to eat by playing in the seeds and drink by swishing the water around. After a couple of days, he'll get the idea. 
You'll want get some pigeon grit and put that in a separate bowl. He'll discover that on his own and eat it when he needs to. 
Hope that answers some of your questions. Good luck.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Demi...Renee gave you good advise on teaching Peep to eat. It may take some time for him to figure it out and you will need to make sure he gets enough to eat and drink.
Should it be that Peep's leg doesn't improve and you decide to keep him that would be the time to look for a companion which doesn't need to be disabled.

Chain link enclosure is not predator proof...snakes, rodents, etc will be able to get in. We recommend 1/4 inch hardware cloth. It would be so awful for you or your daughter to go out in the morning only to fine him dead from some predator break-in during the night. I know because I've had it happen and it's awful.


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## demi (May 21, 2008)

Dear Lovebirds and Charis,

Thank you so much for your sound advice. I appreciate it very much.
Yesterday, my daughter tried to play with him and teach him to peck at some 'weaning and conversion' food. He did peck at some. He did not seem overly interested, but we will keep trying and let him get used to the idea of pecking. We will give him some seeds next. And water too.

His legs are bound so tightly that he can barely move, and when he moves, because the right foot is still a little to the front in comparison with the left, he moves in circles. It is a little pittiful to watch. His legs are getting bigger and stronger, though. This vet wrap is on him from all the way up his thigh to the ankles. I am wondering if there isn't any way to give him some slack toward his feet so that at least he can have an even movement in his legs. This wrap was put on by the vet we go to, last Friday. She told me to leave it on and just wash it when it gets too dirty. I am not sure how long I can afford to keep going to the vet just to let her replace it ( it costs $15 for her to take him into the back for few minutes to redo the wrap.), so from the info. I got from her assistant, I went and bought the vet wrap for $1.99 at a nearby feed store. The way the vet wrapped his leg is this: because his legs don't correspond in length and the way they bend with each other, she at first put two feet together about an inch apart and wrapped both legs, going up all the way up toward his thighs. ( The right leg extends beyond the left toward his behind and bends back a little.) The vet did say that this is the way Peep's leg probably was when he was born and he had to live with this, although she was sure that he would be able to fly without any problem. She said also that she would rather that I come back to let her redo the wrap because she was afraid I might hurt him unintentionally trying to do it myself. Actually she didn't leave enough room so that opposing toe on one side was folded under his sole. I had to cut out small portion of the bandage so that he could use his opposing toe. 

Is it OK, do you think, for me to try to wrap Peep myself? I think I can do it, and do it better, too.

And yes, I will make sure to secure the chain link pen with netting or wire enforcement to prevent smaller animals from getting in. That was on our mind from the very start.

Is it advisable to get a bird which is not a pigeon? Or, another pigeon is much better as a companion for him? 
Demi


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Demi,

You definitely need to get another pigeon for companion bird, if they are going to share the same space. other species have different needs and temperaments. 

If you think you can do the wrap exactly as the vet has done it, (without folding the toe under...duh), you should try it, but have a rehabber or vet assistent check to make sure it is done right. It is very important that the wrap remains on as long as possible in the correct position for as long as he is growing-even longer, it can make such a big difference if it is taken off too early or prematurely. It does seem inhumane to see them struggling, but the results can be worth it.


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## demi (May 21, 2008)

Thanks Trees Gray,

This morning, I had to clean his feet which were completely covered with caked-on feces. The bandage has gotten very hard with them also. It definitely needs to be changed, so I will do my best to redo when his tummy is not full. ( I have to turn him upside down, though, this, he doesn't seem to mind at all - he remains quiet and calm.) If I am not sure that it is done right, I will ask the vet's assistant who lives by me to take a look.

Thank you again for your advice. Have a great day!!! Demi


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## demi (May 21, 2008)

*questions never seem to run out*

Dear birdlovers,

Peep is pecking and eating more food today. The instruction says that we are supposed to convert slowly; 1/4 of the entire meal should consist of this for about a week and gradually increase the portion. 

How do you guage how much seeds he has eaten? Does his crop fill out in the same way as when he eats the baby food? Is making the seeds and water available to eat at all times good enough at the end of this process?

I didn't know until today that you do not feed 'grit' until at least when all his feathers come in, according to another bird lover,in other words, you have to wait until he has matured physically to handle it. 
But they aren't they eating the seeds just the same way? Demi


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

demi said:


> Thanks Trees Gray,
> 
> This morning, I had to clean his feet which were completely covered with caked-on feces. The bandage has gotten very hard with them also. It definitely needs to be changed, so I will do my best to redo when his tummy is not full. ( I have to turn him upside down, though, this, he doesn't seem to mind at all - he remains quiet and calm.) If I am not sure that it is done right, I will ask the vet's assistant who lives by me to take a look.
> 
> Thank you again for your advice. Have a great day!!! Demi



Hi Demi, 


I know you entioned 'when his tummy is not full..."

But, just to remind everyone, generally - 


we do well to be especially careful when turning Pigeons upside-down, or onto their Back, because Liquid in their Crop can flow into their Throat and possibly into their Wind-Pipe, which could cause them serious harm or death from bacterial pnumeonia resulting from aspiration of Crop liquids.


Have him on a definite incline if possible, when working on the Legs, so his Head is definitely higher.


Dealing with 'Thread-Feet' issues, or when splinting Broken Legs, what I do is to have them on their back, nestled between my knees or thighs, as I sit on a short chair, with my feet up on something high enough ( an over-turned Bucket usually ) to effect the incline my Legs need to have, for the Bird on his back to be inclined.


Grit wise, Baby Pigeons are fed Seeds and Grit by their parents once they are about a week old, so a little 'pinch' of fine Grit is fine to have in their formula.


I 'Baby Feed' formula ( via the hollow of a regular - if trimmed - Baby Bottle Nipple ( or Rubber Teat ) sans 'Bottle' of course, untill the young Bird elects to leave off of it on his own initiative, which can be as long as 50 odd days of age, but, I also lead them to be pecking and self feeding independantly by the time they are two weeks old or a little more, so, we do both concurrantly, with the 'Baby feeds' gradually tapering down to one-a-day, then one every other day, and usually by the time they are fourty odd days old, they feel they are done with it, or we do just another one now and then for old time's sake, since it is fun and meaningful for them to have if they ask for it.


For them, being fed is an emptional thing and or a re-assurance thing, as well as a nutritional thing, so, it means a lot to them, as do other attentions or fussings.


Have fun...!


Phil
l v


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## demi (May 21, 2008)

*Thanks for the info.*

I think I wrapped him successfully. I did use my thighs, but from now on, I will make sure that my knees are higher than my thighs. Thanks.

Everytime he gets to be re-bandaged, he takes about half a day to adjust to the new one, well enough to gain control of his balance. He falls over and cannot get up needing help from us. By the afternoon, today, after the new bandage was applied in the morning, he was able to once again move around little by little to go from here to there without falling. The old one became too narrow between the feet, making him claw the opposite feet, giving him cuts that bled here and there on the back of his feet, so I had to give a little more slack in between his feet so that he no longer claws himself. 

We can't wait to see him fly in his pigeon-pen!!! Demi

PS My e-mail address is: [email protected] I would appreciate your sending me private message there. ( I am not very good at navigating in the computer to find the right pages. )


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## demi (May 21, 2008)

*my new baby*

Dear pigeon lovers,

A friend gave me a baby pigeon ( possibly a dove, I don't know which, and haven't named her/him yet, either ) on Sept. 4th. saying that she was about 2 days old. She ( I hope it is a 'she'), with her eys open, seemed a little older, compared to some of the pictures of pigeon babies I was shown. Just to make it easy to remember, I have decided to assume her birth date as late night of Sept. 1st, that makes her about 8 days old today.

She is doing well in every way, but I noticed her having air bubble underneath the skin, around the shoulder just where the wings make upside down 'v's on her back, from swallowing air when eating. 

I have tried several times to feed her with a nipple, but ended up going back to feeding her with a cut-off syringe which seems to work. With Peep, I never noticed this air bubble. I probably didn't pay much attention. She doesn't appear to be bothered by it, and I don't know if it is a problem or it is normal to be that way. I hold her vertically and open her beaks a little and rub her gently. Only sometimes it seems to work to lessen the bubble.

Is this a problem that I should be worring about? Demi


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

demi said:


> Dear pigeon lovers,
> 
> A friend gave me a baby pigeon ( possibly a dove, I don't know which, and haven't named her/him yet, either ) on Sept. 4th. saying that she was about 2 days old. She ( I hope it is a 'she'), with her eys open, seemed a little older, compared to some of the pictures of pigeon babies I was shown. Just to make it easy to remember, I have decided to assume her birth date as late night of Sept. 1st, that makes her about 8 days old today.
> 
> ...


Demi,
The post you originally posted regarding your new baby has been placed in it's own thread.
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f6/new-baby-advice-needed-29934.html#post316959#post316959

Cindy


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## demi (May 21, 2008)

*Thank you Cindi*

For helping me with my new thread.

I felt like I was given a second chance when Dena called!!

This one is very tiny but very healthy. She is already covered with brownish feathers all over, except the tail that looks white.

She likes to burrow in my shirt while being held by me - after being fed, I make her a new clean nest. She peeps but ever so quietly. Peep was 10 times louder!! She is a cutie!!

Thanks again. Demi


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