# Need help with sick pigeon in Arizona



## artschoolgirl (May 4, 2007)

Greetings fellow forum members-

My daughter brought me a pigeon that she's been watching for the past few days. She had noticed it did not look good (one bad leg, beak is askew, tail feathers messed up) and has been keeping an eye on it when the local pigeons come to eat seeds from our yard. This morning, it landed on the ground but could not fly once it was down. She figured if she caught it, we could get it some help.

After looking at the poor thing (and I'm no expert) I wonder if it's beyond help. We have it in a crate covered with a blanket right now. One leg is healthy. The other is pulled up against its body, it's shriveled, gray, and dead looking. It's bottom is covered in fecal matter. Some of its tail feathers are bent. It's beak is askew - the top half goes one way and the bottom half goes the other way. It does not make normal pigeon sounds. Rather, it makes sort of honking/croaking sounds when I get near it. I have no idea whether this is canker and an injury or what. I'm not to keen on trying to pick it up because the bird gets quite upset. Also, overall the pigeon is swollen looking- not just the feathers - the whole brd looks round.

I'm wondering if there's anyone locally with the meds and experience to be able to help this poor fella. I can transport and help toward the cost of meds. But, I'm currently hand raising an orphaned kitten (currently 13 days old) with a host of digestive issues - feeding every 1 1/2-2 hours around the clock. I don't have the extra time or energy (let alone experience) to be able to give this pigeon the care it needs, but I really would like to get it help if possible.

I took some pictures, but my card reader is not reading the memory card for some reason. If I get them working, I will post them to a flickr account and post the link.

HELP! 

Jennifer (Tempe, Arizona)


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

While it doesn't sound good, many of us here virtually always choose to try. I'd start with trying to get into contact with one of Cindy's vets. I'll give her a PM to look in on this one.

Pidgey


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Jennifer,

Thanks so much to you and your daughter for bringing in this poor pigeon. If you are able to post the pics later, that would be helpful.

Just from the description, it sounds to me like the pigeon is in pretty bad shape and should probably be taken to a wildlife rehabber or a pigeon friendly vet. East Valley Wildlife is in the Chandler area, and I have a lot of respect for them. There is also Liberty Wildlife in the Phoenix area that has a good reputation. 

East Valley Wildlife: http://www.eastvalleywildlife.org/company_info.htm

Liberty Wildlife: http://www.libertywildlife.org/about_contact_us.asp

Terry


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## artschoolgirl (May 4, 2007)

*Pics*

OK, took a new batch of pics with a new memory card. Hope this link is right. 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

My flickr screen name is art_school_grrrl if that helps.

Also noticed that there aren't many tail feathers to speak of - just one or two, really.

Jennifer


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Jennifer,

Oh My! That poor little pigeon! Thank you for the pictures .. they are very sad but very helpful in trying to assess the condition of this pigeon. 

I know you don't want to stress it by handling, but I think you need to check that leg that is up close to the body and looking kind of withered to see if it is tangled up in string or fishing line or perhaps broken in such a way that it is being held as it is. Also, you need to get a good look into the mouth and throat to see if there is canker in there that is pushing the upper and lower beak out of alignment. 

The vent area that is caked with feces needs to be cleaned off so the poor bird can at least poop (assuming there is anything inside to poop). This can be done by carefully clipping the caked feathers off with small scissors, picking the poop off with your fingers (gross .. yes .. but effective and safe for the bird), or soaking the area in warm water and trying to wash the poop off.

If the bird has not taken any water on its own, it does need to get fluids. If you could get some unflavored Pedialyte or store brand of same into the bird by getting it to drink some or by carefully syringing or eyedroppering some, that would be great. 

Please try to have a careful look at that leg and in the mouth and throat and let us know what you find. 

In the meantime fluids are really important and after your exam let the bird be warm, in a quiet place, and as stress free as possible.

I do believe this pigeon needs some significant care, and if you are able to give it, bless you. If not, I think it really needs to get to a rehabber or to a vet kind of ASAP.

Terry


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

How is the pij doing, any progress? Sounds like you have your hands full, Bella is sure a cutie but they are so much work to bottle-feed! I hope you are getting enough rest...or as close as you can to enough.  I'll keep my fingers crossed for the poor little pigeon.


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## artschoolgirl (May 4, 2007)

*Status report*

OK, just checked the forum and read the messages. I take Terry's suggestions and try to accomplish that (long  list of pidgie cleanup chores right now. I will report back with what I find. I hate to stress the poor guy out, but I understand these things need to be done. I have pedialite on hand (thanks to the baby's kitty's bouts with loose stools) as well as syringes and eyedroppers. I'll get some pedialite in this guy and get him cleaned up as best I can. Oh, and I tried to call the East Valley Rescue earlier this evening, but of course they were closed for the night. Will call back first thing in the morning.

On the up side, the pidgie is hanging in there, and is a lot stronger than I would expect him to be given his state. I'll do what I can and report back. Thanks for all of your help. You are *amazing*!

Jennifer


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## artschoolgirl (May 4, 2007)

*So, I cleaned up the poopy pigeon butt*

My findings follow:

Pigeon's butt was caked with poop, but cleaned off fairly easily. The tail feathers have all been ripped off, but not completely out - they're sort of broken off maybe an inch or so from the body. I could not find any evidence of blood or wounds, however.

The leg is pretty much mummified and gray- I didn't see healthy tissue until above the bend/joint toward the top of the leg. It looks like an old wound. Around the joint, there is some dried black stuff (maybe old blood?) - it's very hard, and I didn't see the point in messing with it since there's nothing I can personally do. I would imagine the leg needs to be amputated. As I said, it's dead, gray, and mummified.

The wings seem ok, and pidgie can fly for short distances. No other injuries on the body that I could see. It's incredibly off balance with one leg and no tail feathers for balance, but it hops around anyway.

Now for the mouth. I opened the beak and did not see any lesions. The tissue looked healthy and pink, tongue was grayish, but looked OK. There is one small bump on the side of the bottom beak, but it looked like part of the beak rather than something growing on it. 

Opening the mouth, I realized that this pigeon's problem *may* be due to the fact that the top half of its beak is unnaturally curved - sort of hook-beaked. I would imagine that would cause the misalignment I'm seeing because the bird would not be able to close its beak. It may also cause eating difficulties, which may have caused the bird to become weak over time and prone to attack. That's my theory and non-expert opinion. I didn't see anything that looked like lesions in the mouth, and I even smelled the mouth when I had it open - there was no odor. (Ha! I got to sniff a pigeon's breath *and* pick poop off its butt with my fingers, all in one night!  )

Oh, and the bird is pooping - dark brownish greenish stools with lots of white, not well formed. I gave the bird some pedialyte, but I'm wondering if I should mix up some kaytee exact for the guy and see if he'll take it. Not sure if it's wise to feed him, but the crop felt completely empty.

All right. Opinions? Advice? ......Am I really the only one up this time of night?

Thanks,

Jennifer


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

ok i'm no expert either but since no one else is replying so far...what we generally do with rescues is heat them up first, then rehydrate for a few hours then feed, either formula or soaked puppy chow, or seeds if they can eat on their own. so if you've gotten a bunch of fluid down, i would feed the bird at this point.
sabina


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

artschoolgirl said:


> My findings follow:
> 
> * *The tail feathers have all been ripped off, but not completely out - they're sort of broken off maybe an inch or so from the body. *
> 
> ...


Hi Jennifer,

I'm sorry I was unavailable last night.  
How's the little one doing?

* That was my first thought when I viewed your pictures, that the tail feathers, what's left of them, appeared to be broken. 

** Does the beak look to be 'scissored'? If/when you offer your little patient seeds, I would suggest placing them in a deep bowl. 

*** Actually, your description of the droppings aren't all that bad considering the condition the bird appears to be in. 

I have no problem taking a look at the bird, however I will be out until mid afternoon. I'm located near Dobson & Baseline.
If you are able to get the bird over to East Valley Wildlife, that would be best. 

As far as a vet in the area. I go to Dr. Funk. He & his staff are wonderful.  
He's at the Mesa Veterinary Hospital.

Hope this info helps.

Please keep us posted.

Cindy


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## artschoolgirl (May 4, 2007)

*so...*

Cindy - I would be thrilled to take you up on your offer! I know the pidgie would be in the best hands possible! We've been giving the pigeon pedialyte - a few droppers at a time every few hours. I've also offered a deep dowl of seeds, though it's hard to tell if the pidgie is taking any. Otherwise, he/she seems to be fairly active, trying to get out of the box when we take the top off.

Jennifer


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

You might try sending Cindy a Private message with you phone number. I know she will respond. She is really wonderful.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Thank you for the lovely compliment, Charis. 

I got home a little bit ago & I've sent Jennifer an email. 

Cindy


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

AZWhitefeather said:


> Thank you for the lovely compliment, Charis.
> 
> I got home a little bit ago & I've sent Jennifer an email.
> 
> Cindy


Let us know. That is a sad little bird.


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## artschoolgirl (May 4, 2007)

*......and I'm back!*

I just sent an email to Cindy (bless her heart!) but thought I would post an updaye here for all of you as well. Thanks for your well wishes and kind thoughts. I just love this community. I'm so glad all of you are here. 

So, pidgie update:

As for Mr. Pidgie, he is doing well, so far as I can tell. I mean, really - he's sooo much better than I thought he would be. I didn't think he would make it through the night looking at him. I'm keeping him in a box with a sock with warmed rice in it, and keeping the box covered in a nice quiet spot in my room. My daughter had been dropper feedingthe electrolyte solution throughout the day. I felt he was stable, so I just mixed up a batch of Kaytee Exact (with Phil's ACV water  ) and gave him a little bit of that by letting him dip his beak in and giving a bit to the side of his beak by dropper. It was amazing how quickly he perked up after that! I put him back in his box with fresh seeds and a fresh bowl of fluids and he *TOTALLY* went to town on the seeds! I'm honestly amazed at how resiliant this guy is! Maybe I'm being too hopeful, but he really seems to be getting stronger.

I got the email from Cindy, who will be able to see the bird but not keep it. (I was not clear on that until I got her email.) I just left a message with East Valley Wildlife and am awaiting a call back. My car overheated today and is not drivable right now (just one more thing on my plate....). I can borrow a car, but not until much later this evening - 9-ish or so. I will also have a car to borrow tomorrow all day. Oy vey.

I called the vet, Dr. Funk's office and they would not be able to see the bird until tomorrow afternoon. I can afford the initial visit, but they said it would likely be around $200 to amputate the leg. I'm not sure I can swing that right now. I've had a lot of expenses with the kitty, and now with the fate of my car up in the air.... When it rains, it pours, right? I would imagine it's important to keep a sense of humor when things like this happen.

So, I really can't do anything but keep the guy stable right now. As for my options, I'm not sure what I should do. If I bring a pidgie to the rescue needing expensive care (leg amputation) will they just euthanize it? Or, do they get vet services comped to them? Do you know how that works? I don't think I could bring it somewhere knowing it were going to be put down. I think I'd rather try to hock somethings or raise some money somehow.... I don't know.

So, I have two questions. First, for all of the pigeon rescue people out there: From a financial standpoint, how on earth do you do this kind of stuff on an ongoing basis? I'm probably spent close to $400 on this kitten, and now the pigeon..... How do you guys do it?

Secondly, my daughter and I have had a lot of luck with our rescue animals, but it seems that naming them is an important part of the process. Maybe it's because once you name an animal, it's like making a committment. Maybe the animals sense that. So, if anyone has ideas for names for this bird, feel free to suggest. I'd like something that suggests it's a fighter, cause I think it is. I just can't come up with anything right now. Suggestions?

It's kind of funny - My daughter and I have saved an orphaned baby roof rat, an itty bitty baby pigeon, one cat, and now we have the kitten and this new pidgie. (The animals just seem to find us, it seems). I was an animal lover as a kid, but my parents were not supportive. My daughter has shown a propensity for animals from early on and an interest in rescue/rehab work, so I've done everything I can to support her efforts. And, she really is amazing with animals, especially birds. They just seem to trust her. A few weeks ago, she wanted to go and get a couple of feeder rats from the feed store and "save them" from certain death. We're moving to Texas soon, and I told her that now is not a good time. I also told her that when an animal needs our help, it will find its way to us. Lo and behold, shortly after that, we acquired Bella (the kitten) from craigslist - abandoned by her momma, 12 hours old, near death, and none of the rescues could take it because they were full. So, we went and picked her up and have loved her and cared for her since. Then this pidgie found us. This seems to be becoming a pattern. Have other rescue people found that rescue work was something that *chose you* rather than the other way around?

Thanks,

Jennifer


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Frankly, if the leg's all dried out, there's no real hurry to amputate. Can you have someone hold the bird and stretch that leg out a little so that you can get a better picture? If you take it at the camera's highest resolution, can you crop the picture so that only the bird and leg fills the frame? 

Pidgey


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## artschoolgirl (May 4, 2007)

*New pic of foot*

Thank goodness for Cindy's generous spirit and kind heart! She came over tonight and assessed the pigeon. I took a picture with her holding its leg - I hope this helps. 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

I spoke with the local rescue, and they said outright that they would euthanize it if I brought it to them. They said it could not have quality of life, and thus it was better to euthanize. I understand that this guy will not ever be able to be released, but I don't think he's hopeless. It's all dependent upon whether or not he can eat on his own. I think the leg, even if it needs to be amputated, is a matter that can be worked out.

As I said, Cindy graced us with her presence this evening and then called her friend to come over and tube feed the pigeon (because although he was trying to eat seeds, he was not actually able to pick them up with his beak). Cindy and I thought that part of the reason he may have had trouble eating seeds was partially because he was so weak. She said his keel was sharp as a knife. And yet, she agreed with what I've said - for a bird with as many issues as this one has, he sure has a lot of fight left in him. His eyes are bright, and he's not lethargic. His beak is also scissor-beaked - we're not sure why. He may or may not have canker. Cindy's friend gave him a first dose of antibiotics just in case.

I'm going to bring him to the vet tomorrow and see what the vet says. I guess I'll take it from there. He's resting comfortably now.

Jennifer


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Jennifer, 
If you can get him stronger and put some weight on him, he will do well in an aviary setting. Many of us have one legged pigeons and they do adapt.
I think your daughter found him just in the nick of time. 
Get him stronger and we'll help you find a home.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Thanks for posting an update Jennifer.  
It was such a pleasure meeting you. You are truly an animal angel, as is your daughter.  

*Thank you* so much Kim, for helping out. 

What a sweet pij he is. 
On a positive note, his tail feathers are beginning to grow back.  



Pidgey said:


> Frankly, if the legs all dried out, there's no real hurry to amputate.
> 
> *Can you have someone hold the bird and stretch that leg out a little so that you can get a better picture? *
> 
> Pidgey


Our minds must have been on the same path Pidgey.  
I had mentioned to Jennifer since there were four hands maybe she could get a good picture of the leg while I held him.

The leg is literally frozen in place. There's no way it can be stretched out.
It seems to be frozen in the position as if the bird were lying down. Very strange.

Cindy


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

artschoolgirl said:


> I'm going to bring him to the vet tomorrow and see what the vet says. I guess I'll take it from there. He's resting comfortably now.
> 
> Jennifer


Thank you Cindy and Kim for helping. Jennifer .. I'm not sure what you are expecting or hoping for from the vet tomorrow .. can you let us know your expectations? I'm asking because I'm pretty sure the vet will either recommend euthanasia or will recommend a BUNCH of hugely expensive procedures that may or may not help. I'm certainly not saying that you shouldn't go to the vet with the bird .. just concerned about what you are expecting the outcome to be.

Terry


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## artschoolgirl (May 4, 2007)

*Re: the vet*

Terry-

That is a good question. For one thing, the bird has not yet been able to eat seeds on his own. What I thought was him "going to town" on his seeds earlier did not result in him actually getting seeds into his crop. So, I guess I'm expecting that the vet will know whether or not the bird will be able to eat on his own once he gains his strength. Whether or not this bird can eat is my main concern. 

Also, I guess I was looking for the vet's opinion on whether or not the leg needed to be amputated. Though, thinking about it now, I'm sure the vet will say "yes". I know that this bird is not strong enough to go through surgery though. Is it possible that without amputating it, the bird could just live with this mummified leg not causing any further problems? Or is it just a matter of time until it gets infected?

Overall, I guess I was viewing the vet visit as something I *had* to do in order to do everything possible to help the bird. I feel an obligation to do what I can for it (since it did pick us) to help it.... And since the bird does not seem to be giving up on life just yet.

I could certainly use advice/opinions from more experienced members though. I'm open to hear what anyone else has to say.

Jennifer


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## artschoolgirl (May 4, 2007)

*One more thing*

Terry-

Reading between the lines of your reply, I'm wondering if you think euthanasia is something that should be considered for the bird? I guess I'm wondering if, in some sense, it's cruel to offer life sustaining intervention to a bird that would obviously not be able to survive on its own...

Jennifer


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

HI Jennifer,

Yes, I think euthanasia would be the kindest thing in this case. The leg problem could be dealt with, but the beak problem is really significant. I don't think this bird could ever be self feeding. Assuming that to be the case, then you would be faced with a one legged pigeon that had to be hand fed every day for the rest of its life .. is it doable .. yes .. is it easy .. no .. not for you or for the bird.

I know that all of us here on Pigeon-Talk always want to try and do the best the bird .. I just don't think there is much of a chance at a quality of life for this little pigeon. As I said, the leg thing is not much of a concern to me but the beak really is .. I think this is a no go ..

Please do what your heart, your head, and your gut tells you to do. You are the one with the bird and not me.

Bless you for your care and for your kindness. I know you will make the right decision for the bird (and that doesn't mean that what I think is right).

Terry


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## artschoolgirl (May 4, 2007)

*Thank you*

Terry-

Thank you for your honest opinion. I know you speak from experience and a love of these birds. I agree that if the bird cannot eat on its own, it is not viable. I just want to be sure that's the case before I face that decision. I'm going to sleep on it and see how the pigeon is in the morning.

Jennifer


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Personally, my heart doesn't take that idea too well. A line out of Seabiscuit came to me when Charles Howard came through the bushes to meet Tom Smith for the first time and ask about the horse he was caring for. Tom said when asked why he was healing a horse who'd never be able to race again:

"You know, you don't throw a whole life away just 'cause he's banged up a little... "

There is a long-term technique for straightening scissor beak that involves simply using your fingers to tweak the beak back in line a little each day. It's right out of the book. Jazaroo had to do something similar to straighten the beak of Cole in a different thread. Cole had lost a portion of the actual bone on one side due to canker, rendering the lower beak wobbly and useless. In that case, perseverence paid off.

I will also say that John and Cynthia have at least one pretty severe scissorbeaked bird that has adapted and learned to eat out of a deep dish so it can be done. I'll PM Cynthia to tell some of that story here but I'd give the bird a chance.

Pidgey


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I have a pigeon with a beak that is as bad, and he is a happy friendly pidge, with a one-eyed mate. His beak does need trimming occasionally to enable him to eat, but that is an easy job.

One-legged pigeons also abound. I agree with Pidgey tat there is no hurry to amputate, what usually happems is that the led withers and drops off. Amputation is dangeorus because of the anaesthetics.

One thing I have come to realsie over the years is that pigeons have tremendous powers of recovery and always deserve a chance. I certainly would not euthanase , but would try to find a caring home for him.

I am in the UK, otherwise I would have him.

Cynthia


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Just putting in my ten cents worth. 

I can only give my opinion on what I saw, & it's clear this pigeon has such a will to live. He's alert, bright eyed & would probably be bushy tailed, if he had one. 

When I come across a 'scissor beak' story I always think of Jack, Kim's (KIPPY) recovered canker pij who was left with a severe scissor beak & blind in one eye. 

Jack, had such a severe case of canker he couldn't even close his mouth. I don't recall if I gave him a Spartrix for 3 *or* 4 days. I do remember it was quite a job getting them down, but we prevailed. 
Although the canker was resolved, Jack *was* left with a severe scissor beak. 

That was about three years ago. Today, Jack is living the Life of Riley with Kim's other rescued pijjies in their aviary. He has a mate & is doing wonderfully. 
Kim has since taken in another scissor beaked pij, who is also doing wonderfully.

It remains to be seen what other problems this pigeon might have (other than the obvious leg issue), but if it's primarily a scissor beak issue, it's possible he can learn to eat on his own. 

I think 98% of us have been where you are now, Jennifer. And it's a most difficult place to be at times. If I can be of any further assistance, please don't hesitate to give me a call.

Treesa, given there is a positive outcome, what woud you recommend giving this pij to start building up his strength?

Cindy


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I have a dove with a scissored beak due to canker and she eats fine, as long as she had a deep dish and gets her beak trimmed every other week.
I also have a pigeon with no lower beak. The whole lower beak is cut off at the base and I never thought she would be able to feed on her own, but she does. All she needs is a deep bowl always filled to the top where she can stick in her head and pick up seeds.
I would give this little one a try. There is a good chance she will learn how to eat.


Reti


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## artschoolgirl (May 4, 2007)

*update*

Hi guys-

I've thought it over, and I'm just not ready to give up on this guy yet. If he's not willing to throw in the towel, I'm not going to either. I agree that his ability to eat is a main concern, but I think it's too soon to tell seeing as he's so weak. Once he gains strength, I think it will be easier to assess. We're going to Dr. Funk (the vet Cindy recommended) in about an hour. I want to see if there's anything that can be done for the beak, and I may have the doc show me how to tube feed as well (feeding Kaytee with an eyedropper is a bit labor intensive  ). 

I will let all of you know how it goes, and Cindy - I will call you when we're through. OK, gotta go get the gang ready to go. 

Jennifer


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## artschoolgirl (May 4, 2007)

*and another update*

I was getting ready to go to the vet and came in to check on the pidge. He saw me, and then he laid down like he was going to sleep, and he passed peacefully. I know I should not be surprised, but I had just fed and given him electrolytes a little while ago, had stayed up until 5 AM making sure he was warm and hydrated, fed him this morning and again mid day, and all throughout he seemed his usual self. It was rather unexpected, even though I knew he was very sick. I feel like I did what I could, and I think he was better off being inside with us than he would have been if left outside in the Arizona heat to die. He was tended to as best I could, and he never gave any signs of being in pain. ....I still feel bad though. Poor Pidgie. 

Jennifer


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I am so sorry, Jennifer! He was a brave pigeon, but he left in his own time and must have known that he was safe and cared for. 

Thank you for giving him the option of survival.

Cynthia


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

I'm so sorry the little one didn't make it Jennifer. For sure, you did all you could for the bird, and it was safe and well cared for when the time came. Sometimes just providing a safe haven at the end is all we can do. Bless you for trying so hard.

Terry


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I'm so sorry. I was really rooting for this guy. Likely there was much more going on with him than the obvious.
Thank you for all you did for him and your thoughtful consideration of his life.
At least now you know we're here.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

I am so sorry Jennifer.  

Thank you for allowing this sweet pij to experience the kindness of human hands before it was time for him to move on. 

Cindy


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## firstimer (Aug 26, 2002)

Jennifer
I am truly sorry this little bird didn’t make it, I read everything that everyone wrote and I feel for your loss. We all have been there and I know I feel the love from everyone here during times like this, so I hope you can feel it too. You did a wonderful thing and the little bird had the best place possible to rest in peace. God Bless you and your little girl.


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