# Injured Bird - Ireland - Please Help.



## closter (Jul 2, 2016)

hi - i feed the garden birds on the 6' x 4' flat concrete roof of my coal bunker that is directly under the window sill of my kitchen window.

4 days ago i found a pigeon huddled in the corner - it has a blue ring on either leg.

i tried to catch it but it flew about 6' onto the boiler house - then about 20' & perched on top of my yard gate post (7')

i checked during the night & it was still there however in the morning it had returned to the same spot in the corner.

i finally caught it but noticed it had been injured on the back of the neck - the wound is not deep but the feathers are missing - i've applied savlon cream.

i made a small cage using part of a bin liner plastic bin - it's eating & drinking ok.

i put it out when i feed the other birds (2/day) & it feeds fine with the other pigeons however it has made no attempt to fly although it does stretch its wings.

the cage i built is about 18" x 12" x 12" but i think something bigger is required.

can someone please advise on this & other - i would be keeping it on top of the coal bunker but i have concerns regarding cats & also heat/bedding requirements.

when the birds are fed i return it to the cage but bring it in at nights 

cheers


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*Thank you for caring for the lost & injured domestic bird. He is not going anywhere, and does need your care. It is not flying due to condition of health and may have been starved and needs to gain weight. This pigeon is used to being housed and fed and protected from the weather/predators.

Is there any kind of identification numbers and letters on the band? Is the bird eating well?

Please do not release bird, keep contained for now, since it cannot fly it is vulnerable to hawk attack and should be returned to owner, if possible. You can use a cat or dog carrier or crate for now. The bird should be able to move around and stretch its wings inside the cage. Continue t keep cage or crate in safe location where predators cannot get to it.

If the bird was predator caught it needs an oral antibiotic.

Here is UK link with some resources, not sure if there is a rescue in your area: http://www.pigeonrescue.co.uk/rescuecentres.htm *


----------



## closter (Jul 2, 2016)

Skyeking said:


> *
> 
> Is there any kind of identification numbers and letters on the band? Is the bird eating well?
> [/url] *


thanks for your reply/links - it's eating well & there is numbers on the ring - unfortunately no rescue ctrs here in N Ire

the box/cage i made is like a small cat carrier but not enough room to comfortably stretch his wings 

my wife is not keen on keeping it inside except late at night - we have 3 huskies one of which is a dedicated predator particularly regarding birds..

we have a large guinea pig cage but it's not weather proof.

was thinking of making a wooden box (for outside) say roughly 3'x2'x2' with mesh front & a door to drop down at night - would it need a perch?

also i'm presently using a few paper towels for bedding & mixed corn for food.

cheers


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*Thank you for your response.

Are there just numbers on the ring, any club info at all?

Wild bird food will do-with just a little corn. If you can get a pigeon mix that would be even better. 

If you are looking for temp housing, pigeons prefer being way up high, any enclosure should be off the ground and weather and predator proofed-solid floor, no openings larger then 1/2 " and hardware cloth for openings, not chicken wire. . Pigeons prefer flat perches. Pigeons thrive on sunshine and good air circulation.

Perhaps you can find a local flyer or fancier to take the bird, if owner can't be found. Pigeons thrive with other pigeons. *


----------



## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

As others have said, thank you for helping the poor bird! Glad to hear he is eating. He may need antibiotics as suggested...amoxicillin for example, or he could die from infection. Is there a way you could please post a photo? If there are numbers on the bands can you read them? A large cage would be fine to protect him as long as predators can't get in. He may be a lost pet or racer.


----------



## closter (Jul 2, 2016)

thanks guys - after making local inquiries i found a guy (an ex keeper) who, using the ring number was able to contact the club that is close to me (15 mile).

he examined the bird (female) & dismissed the neck wound as reasonably insignificant but suggested it was emaciated as the keel bone was extremely prominent.

the club secretary asked if i could provide my phone numbers & i did - the owner texted this evening, thanked me & said he would collect at my convenience.

however i'm now in a dilemma as my mates in the bar this evening said it is more than lightly to be killed??

she's in the bathroom (heated) now & still looks ok although as already mentioned makes no attempt to fly when i temporarily release her 2/day to feed with the garden birds.

ps - food & water is also placed in her cage - will post a pic tomorrow.


----------



## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Please consider just keeping the bird. Ask the owner if that is ok as you obviously care a lot about this pigeon and have a cage and would like to keep him as a pet because you are now attached to him. I would hate to hear that he has been killed. A lot of people unfortunately when birds are injured just "cull" them so I hope you will just let him know you wish to keep the bird...or that it flew off.. Or whatever you need to say to hang onto the bird.


----------



## closter (Jul 2, 2016)

cwebster said:


> Please consider just keeping the bird......


hi - my main concern is whether or not she'll fly again? - if she was just able to flap about the garden she wouldn't last 30 sec as one of my female huskies would kill her 100% sure.

in addition there are also 3 feral cats that prowl the area

i'll contact the owner & explain the situation - if he takes the trouble to come & collect the bird then i assume that might be a good sign...??

i'm in a real quandary.

cheers


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*The only reason she can only flap and can't fly is because she is emaciated and was starving. She has to get the weight back on to fly. Make sure she has access to seed 24/7.

I would ask the owner, what he intends to do with the bird?*


----------



## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Please don't surrender the bird to the owner because obviously he is emaciated and was not well cared for. He cannot fly as has been said because he is starving.


----------



## closter (Jul 2, 2016)

i wouldn't surrender the bird if he was going to kill it.

just let her out to feed with the other garden birds however i've now noticed she's limping badly & holding up her leg a lot when standing - when she does place her foot down the back toe is raised high

on thinking, she might have had a slight limp before

after feeding she has returned to her cage & is lying down - she pecked me when i tried to move her for a clean out - forgot to do it when she was feeding.

i'm hoping it's a good sign that she makes her way to feed with the other birds??

need to find someone else to have a look at her asap


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Letting her out to feed with the others isn't safe. She may all of a sudden be able to fly, and take off to where you can't reach her. Also hawks are a danger.


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*Please give her her own bowl of seed, so she can eat anytime she needs to and gain back the weight she lost. The reason she is limping may be due to lack of minerals, calcium/D3.*


----------



## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

If it turns out she can't walk well or fly she is not releasable and needs to be adopted as a pet because otherwise she could be predator chow. Our first bird was a nonreleasable feral who was nearly decapitated and had a broken wing. She could flap across the room but could not fly after she recovered but was a wonderful pet who lived a happy life. Disabled should not mean death.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If indeed the bird will never be able to fly well again, most keepers will have no use for them. Why would they? They are not keeping birds because they are pets, that they want to nurture and make allowances for. They are keeping birds for one reason, and a non flying bird won't fit in. Someone may be able to give it a home who doesn't need a flying bird. I would find out first what he was going to do with the bird, and ask if I could have it. You could then try and find it a home. 
Some disabilities are reason to euthanize, but many are not. All depends on what kind of quality of life the bird would have if living with the disability. Sometimes kinder to just euthanize. But a non flying bird can still have a quality of life in the right situation. The problem is that it depends on that situation.


----------



## closter (Jul 2, 2016)

guys i don't mind keeping the bird if she's disabled - however i'm not sure from a practical point of view how i would do it - say for example if she can't fly again what type of setup would i need?

also someone mentioned not releasing her to feed with the other birds in case she flies & i can't get her back - how would i know if she can fly again if i don't do that?

in any case if she can fly again is she lightly to fly away or return to me?

sorry but i know absolutely nothing about pigeons.

btw is there anything special i could give her to boost her nourishment - cider vinegar noted.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Even if she suddenly gets her wings back, she may fly away, but still be unwell. Besides, she is domestic and not feral, so won't last on her own. You can figure out if she can fly by letting her free inside. Maybe you have a room you could let her out in? Maybe when she gets stronger, she will try to fly.
If she flies, she may come back, or try to go home. who knows? If she tries to go home, she may get lost.


----------



## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

The bird is not a feral, needs help, so would put her inside and care for her until she recovers then keep her and get a flight cage and maybe a mate or or find her a home with someone with an aviary or loft. If she cannot fly well she is at risk of getting lost or taken by predators. Thank you for helping her.


----------



## closter (Jul 2, 2016)

thanks again for your help - sorry for being a nuisance but i need some further specific advice.

i'll list my questions as follows:-

1) i feed the garden birds 9.00 am & 4.30 pm - during these times i put her out to feed with them - should i continue to do this?

2) the cage i made (as a matter of emergency) is quite small & although safe is not big enough for her to stretch her wings & wander a little - it would accommodate a cat for transportation to a vet etc - what size of a cage/box would i need? - please also see 4) below.

3) as i've mentioned my wife although concerned about the bird would not be happy about keeping a large cage inside the house - i presently keep it outside during the day & bring it in at night 
night temps = about 2 C & day = about 11 C

4) _i really need to know what to build in terms of size etc - for example i have a plastic box about 30"x14" x 14" that i could mesh at the front_ - would this size be ok & would i need anything else?

i would really appreciate if someone could suggest an overall strategy particularly for "permanent/temporary" outdoors situation - however it's essential that i know the sizes required.

obviously if she is probably just going to fly away i would want to use the bits & pieces of timber & other items i have lying about the yard.

cheers


----------



## closter (Jul 2, 2016)

pic showing pecker 8.00 am today & her box before clean out.


----------



## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Hard to,tell from the photo but she doesn't look well yet to me. Maybe others more expert than me can assess from the photo. Would try to get a cage or box at least 36 x 24 or larger, larger the better for daytime. We have flight cages we got online and assembled that are about 5 ft long. But an old bird cage or dog kennel,even if smaller, would do as long as the bar spacing is 1/2 inch. How does she eat when she is with the flock? Maybe you could put a larger cage outside next to the flock so she can eat in the morning and put her in the other cage in the photo at night with food and water and grit. Thank you for helping her!


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*Thank you again for going out of your way for this bird.

No, he does not look well. Like, I have mentioned BEFORE, the bird needs unlimited access to food, to gain weight that he lost, and needs to be kept warm. He doesn't have the energy to stay WARM, and to FLY or gain health, until he gets all weight on. PLEASE keep bird contained and warm and keep seed and water with bird at all time.

*


----------



## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Agree strongly with Skyeking. Wouldn't worry about cage size or flying right now. The bird needs warmth, food, water, grit, safety. Thank you for helping him! He doesnt look well but doesn't look critically ill either. Pigeons are tough so hopefully he or she will be better very soon.


----------



## closter (Jul 2, 2016)

last questions:-

should i still let her feed with the other other garden birds? - i feed them twice/day - she just feeds for about 5 min & then i put her back into the box.

how long will i keep her confined? & what are the visible signs that will let me know she's on the mend? - will she start making noises or move about more?

i located a few pigeon guys but none were interested in taking her on an non kill basis.- rather sad as they don't seem to be much trouble if you have the right setup.

thanks again


----------



## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

She will move around more and seem more lively and probably make more noises when she is better as you say. Also as you mentioned, they are really easy pets to keep so I hope you will make her the slightly larger cage you mentioned and keep her. She doesn't need a really large cage...when Phoebe, our first bird, was injured, the vet advised keeping her in a smaller cage, to keep her from using her wing until it mended and to keep her from using up all her energy that she needed to get well. We kept her in a smaller probably 18 by 24 by 24 inch cage until she became more active and healed. Would not let her eat with the garden birds unless you have her in the cage you pictured to protect her from Hawks and other birds and to keep her from flying enough to get away then be injured. Does she eat and drink in the cage? Warmth, food, water and grit and protection are really more important right now than trying to fly or vocalizing. Can you please post a photo of her droppings so we can help assess her health? Does she have any signs of illness, such as yellow in her throat? Thank you for continuing to care for her! Ideal would be to have a vet look at her but letting them know she is your pet, not a wild bird because people disregard the value of feral pigeons. She might have an infection from the wound you first described...how does it look now? If a bird has been attacked by a hawk or cat they need amoxicillin or a similar antibiotic if infected. A smaller sized human antibiotic can help.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

closter said:


> last questions:-
> 
> should i still let her feed with the other other garden birds? - i feed them twice/day - she just feeds for about 5 min & then i put her back into the box.
> 
> ...


Most pigeon guys aren't going to want to bring a strange bird into their lofts with their other birds, when they don't know for sure what is wrong with her. They don't have time to devote to treating a sick bird, and they are afraid of their birds catching something.


----------



## closter (Jul 2, 2016)

Jay3 said:


> Most pigeon guys aren't going to want to bring a strange bird into their lofts with their other birds, when they don't know for sure what is wrong with her. They don't have time to devote to treating a sick bird, and they are afraid of their birds catching something.


hi - i appreciate your help but please allow for my total ignorance in the matter - i rescue huskies & if that was the subject i would probably not be asking such silly questions - i'm only trying to give the bird a chance but don't have the necessary knowledge or experience required.

i don't want to keep her as a (confined) pet & would be very happy if she got better & flew away however if she did return i would be happy to accommodate her.

i do have a large garage/workshop & rooms in my house but i also have a wife who would be less than happy with bird droppings therein - i would also be concerned about catching it again in case of causing further injury.

cheers.


----------



## closter (Jul 2, 2016)

cwebster said:


> Can you please post a photo of her droppings so we can help assess her health


can't get a good pic of poop - it's solid white/dark green - she's eating/drinking ok in cage.

heres a pic just taken


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*Awe....sweet bird. Thank you again.

Your questions are not silly, and I appreciate you rescuing huskies, I rescue pit bulls.

Please keep bird on heating pad, or in warm room away from drafts of air.ALWAYS keep food and water with bird.

The bird should be putting on some weight and will get stronger, once the keel/breast bone is not prominent and does not stick out much at all. 

I think if you could get a little probiotics in the bird (even a good plain-0% fat, sugar free yogurt) to help get good gut bacteria in check that may also help with putting on weight.*


----------



## closter (Jul 2, 2016)

Jay3 said: "You should see an improvement in her over all health as she gets better. She may eventually be able to fly once she is strong enough. But you don't want her flying outside. Being outside is how she got into trouble in the first place. Do you not have a room or garage or something where you can let her out inside? We have been telling you to keep her confined, and then you ask if you should let her outside with the birds when they eat."

i would be obliged if you would read my last reply to you before answering.

considering what i said regarding an ultimate release how am i going to know she is ready?

if i think she's ready in a few weeks time & i can acquire a inside space for an hour or so & take her there will she fly of her own accord or will i need to encourage her?? - also if she does fly that might not mean she is ready for release? - i trust you can see the problem i'm having here?

also i let her feed with the wild birds as she seemed to like pecking with them & i knew she was going nowhere at that time.

appreciating what you said about "pigeon guys" not being interested.

thanks.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

closter said:


> hi - i appreciate your help but please allow for my total ignorance in the matter - i rescue huskies & if that was the subject i would probably not be asking such silly questions - i'm only trying to give the bird a chance but don't have the necessary knowledge or experience required.
> 
> I do understand that. We all have to learn someplace. It's just that we keep telling you that she shouldn't be released. She is domestic, and will not survive on her own. We have been very clear on that, so don't understand why you would ask again.
> 
> ...


...................................................................................


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

closter said:


> Jay3 said: "You should see an improvement in her over all health as she gets better. She may eventually be able to fly once she is strong enough. But you don't want her flying outside. Being outside is how she got into trouble in the first place. Do you not have a room or garage or something where you can let her out inside? We have been telling you to keep her confined, and then you ask if you should let her outside with the birds when they eat."
> 
> i would be obliged if you would read my last reply to you before answering.
> 
> ...


I hope you can find a home for her, as it is really her only chance.


----------



## closter (Jul 2, 2016)

Jay3 said:


> I hope you can find a home for her, as it is really her only chance.


i've read every post here & i appreciate the help - i was asking you to refer to my last post (to you) in order to clarify my situation regarding unavailable inside space & not wanting to keep the bird as a pet - i meant no disrespect.

as you are saying that even in a 100% fit state if released she would not survive then i will have no other option but to keep her as a pet.

accepting that how do i keep her as a pet & what do i need to build?

btw if it seems i'm stepping again on some of my previous comments i apologize.

thanks.


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Skyeking said:


> *Awe....sweet bird. Thank you again.
> 
> Your questions are not silly, and I appreciate you rescuing huskies, I rescue pit bulls.
> 
> ...


*****************************************************


----------



## closter (Jul 2, 2016)

Skyeking said:


> *Your questions are not silly, and I appreciate you rescuing huskies, I rescue pit bulls.
> 
> Please keep bird on heating pad, or in warm room away from drafts of air.ALWAYS keep food and water with bird.
> 
> The bird should be putting on some weight and will get stronger, once the keel/breast bone is not prominent and does not stick out much at all. *


many thanks for that.

she seems to be improving day by day however Jay3 is saying that she can never be released so it looks like i have an new pet - is there anything special about care/accommodation i should know? - hope i haven't ask this before?

btw pitties are one of my favourite breeds - thank you for your rescue efforts.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I'm hoping you can find someone to take the bird at that end. It doesn't sound as though it would work with you. Very nice of you to help him, but a lone bird in a cage, without a couple of hours out and about daily, to socialize and exercise, isn't a very happy bird. I can understand how your wife feels about a pigeon flying in the house, but a cage 24/7 isn't a life. Building him an enclosure with an attached aviary to get outside in the fresh air and sunshine would be great, if a companion could also be added. But not sure you would be into that idea. You were very nice to help him, but I don't imagine that a pigeon for many years was what you had in mind. Maybe someone in that area who keeps pet birds will show up.


----------



## closter (Jul 2, 2016)

Jay3 said:


> I'm hoping you can find someone to take the bird at that end. It doesn't sound as though it would work with you. Very nice of you to help him, but a lone bird in a cage, without a couple of hours out and about daily, to socialize and exercise, isn't a very happy bird. I can understand how your wife feels about a pigeon flying in the house, but a cage 24/7 isn't a life. Building him an enclosure with an attached aviary to get outside in the fresh air and sunshine would be great, if a companion could also be added. But not sure you would be into that idea. You were very nice to help him, but I don't imagine that a pigeon for many years was what you had in mind. Maybe someone in that area who keeps pet birds will show up.


Jay thanks for your comment & i known exactly what you're saying.

to be honest this has developed into something i didn't really expect but i'm not going to give up - she's sleeping in her little cage now & i feel so sorry for her.

ok at the moment i can only take it in stages.

i have a black plastic box with a lid 18" x 13" x 13" - i propose to cut out 1/2 of the lid for a detachable mesh door & line the inside with paper.

now to give her better exercise/protection etc i assume i'll need to place/attach the new cage in/onto a mesh enclosure - can you please advise regarding a size & any other tips.

many thanks.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I know this isn't easy for you, and that you are trying the best you can. Maybe she will get healthy again and be able to fly. Then it may be easier to find her a home. The aviary or screened area should be as much room as you can give her. But the thing is that chicken wire doesn't work well, because rats, snakes, all kinds of things can get in to injure or kill her. We generally use hardware cloth, which is heavy wire screening with holes 1/2 inch , so nothing can squeeze in, in a heavy gauge, so things cannot chew through. 
All kinds of ways to do this. Some use a rabbit hutch and add the aviary onto it. It should be lifted up off the ground, as pigeons are afraid to nest or roost on the ground level. Instinct tells them to go as high as possible to avoid predators. A raised wooden enclosure, inside an aviary would work. The aviary should be large enough to be able to exercise and walk around at least.She won't be able to fly in that much space, but you need to do what you can. I have no idea of what you can do, or afford to do. But in that much space, you still will not be able to see if she can fly, or let her build up her wing strength.


----------



## closter (Jul 2, 2016)

Jay3 said:


> I know this isn't easy for you, and that you are trying the best you can. Maybe she will get healthy again and be able to fly. Then it may be easier to find her a home. The aviary or screened area should be as much room as you can give her. But the thing is that chicken wire doesn't work well, because rats, snakes, all kinds of things can get in to injure or kill her. We generally use hardware cloth, which is heavy wire screening with holes 1/2 inch , so nothing can squeeze in, in a heavy gauge, so things cannot chew through.
> All kinds of ways to do this. Some use a rabbit hutch and add the aviary onto it. It should be lifted up off the ground, as pigeons are afraid to nest or roost on the ground level. Instinct tells them to go as high as possible to avoid predators. A raised wooden enclosure, inside an aviary would work. The aviary should be large enough to be able to exercise and walk around at least.She won't be able to fly in that much space, but you need to do what you can. I have no idea of what you can do, or afford to do. But in that much space, you still will not be able to see if she can fly, or let her build up her wing strength.


there is no possibility of me finding someone to take her - i've tried & as you've already said she's an unknown quantity even in a healthy state.

she has to get mobile, first in walking, then flying - i'll build a 6x6x6 aviary & see how it goes.

she's still a bit unstable but is eating & drinking ok however her main priority is more space.

many thanks for your time


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If you can build an aviary like that, that would be just wonderful. But if you use chicken wire or something that things can get in at night, then she needs a box that is where she goes at night or in bad weather. It needs ventilation, but has to be able to close up safely at night. Something like a rabbit hutch,(you know, lifted up off the ground) inside an aviary like that would be wonderful. Thank you for trying so hard for her.


----------



## closter (Jul 2, 2016)

this is my initial effort for emergency accommodation - to be upgraded accordingly.









she is still limping & standing mostly with her right leg up.

still eating/drinking ok & has started to preen - is that a good sign?

the owner has texted me a few times to arrange collection.

i think she needs another good examination from a pigeon guy - perhaps the owner would do this but might want to take her in any case - something i don't want for obvious reasons.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Thank you for giving her more room. That cage isn't all that safe outside though as things can get in through those bars. Not a great pic, but she really doesn't look well at all. Her posture is terrible. She is sick, but not sure with what. Can you post a picture of her droppings? And a clearer pic of her?


----------



## closter (Jul 2, 2016)

jay i can't get a good pic of her poop - it's green/white & now a bit runny.

her limp is actually quite bad - originally it might only have been slight.

as i mentioned our vet says he knows nothing about them - he's mostly horses & dogs.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

That posture shows pain. and probably a broken wing. Don't know what is wrong with the leg.


----------



## closter (Jul 2, 2016)

hi - just an update.

i've had her about 6 days - she's still eating & drinking but there's a lot of food on the floor so i can't say for sure how much she's actually eating - could someone give me a rough idea on the quantity she should be eating

she's mostly in a corner of the cage (when i see her) & when standing does so on one leg however the locations of her poop does indicate she's moving about the cage.

her poop (sorry i can't get a good pic) is worm-like - about 3/4" x 1/8" or so & pale green in colour.

i'm still trying to find someone to have a good look at her - i would even pay them.

the owner is still texting me regarding collection.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

She should be eating about 3 Tablespoons daily. She looks to be in pain. And I'm not sure if the wing is broken or not. Could very well be sick and needs antibiotics. If she is sick, she could die without the meds.


----------



## closter (Jul 2, 2016)

Jay3 said:


> She should be eating about 3 Tablespoons daily. She looks to be in pain. And I'm not sure if the wing is broken or not. Could very well be sick and needs antibiotics. If she is sick, she could die without the meds.


you suggested antibiotics - by chance i was prescribed 500mg amoxicillin on mon for a chest infection.

i've read it can be effective against some infections & requires a 50mg daily dose.

appreciating i'm taking a short in the dark, can you please advise on best way to administer etc & how long for?

also since she is eating, preening & pecking me etc do you think that's worth a glimmer of hope?

thanks again for your continued help.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

That would be great. Can you give her 50 mg once daily, for 10 days? Please feed her first so that she has food in her crop when you medicate.


----------



## closter (Jul 2, 2016)

Jay3 said:


> That would be great. Can you give her 50 mg once daily, for 10 days? Please feed her first so that she has food in her crop when you medicate.


thanks jay but how do i actually give it to her? - do i need to dilute the 50mg with water & syringe it? - sorry but it's a dummies guide i require.

she's presently sleeping in her cage on top of the bath but my wife is on the warpath & insists she goes outdoors tomorrow.

appreciate your patience.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Sorry closter. Have been in and out. You can hold the bird on your lap and against your body. This gives you control. Reach from behind her head, and clasp her beak on either side. Now use the fingers of both hands to open the beak. Put in the piece of the tablet and push way back to the back of throat and over the tongue. Close her beak and let her swallow. When you open the beak, push the pill toward the bird's right side of her throat, as the esophagus is on the right, back behind the tongue, but the trach (for breathing) is on the left. So stay to the bird's right.

The tablet will have to be cut in half. Then you take one half and cut that in 4 pieces. Not easy, I know. That will give you about 62mg. Just shave off a tiny bit and discard it.

I know this isn't easy for you, and you are really trying for the poor bird. Thank you for trying, and caring.


----------



## closter (Jul 2, 2016)

Jay3 said:


> .......The tablet will have to be cut in half. Then you take one half and cut that in 4 pieces. Not easy, I know. That will give you about 62mg. Just shave off a tiny bit and discard it.......


jay sorry for being such a pain but the amoxicillin is in powder form contained in a gelatine capsule - i can easily divide out the 50mg but don't know how to give it in that form?

anyway i have the flu & it's 03.58 here so i'm off to bed - many thanks


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Can you make small bread balls that you can soak up the med, after mixing the 50 mg in a small amount of water? Then you would just feed it to her like you would with defrosted peas. open beak, put in the bread ball, and push to the back of her throat and over the tongue. Let her close her beak and swallow, then do the next one. 
I'm so sorry you are sick right now. Makes all this even harder. I hope you are feeling better soon.
No wonder your wife isn't happy with the whole thing. Tell her thank you for being so patient.

If the bread balls don't stick together, then add a very tiny bit of oil to help them to stick together better.


----------



## closter (Jul 2, 2016)

Jay3 said:


> Can you make small bread balls that you can soak up the med, after mixing the 50 mg in a small amount of water? Then you would just feed it to her like you would with defrosted peas. open beak, put in the bread ball, and push to the back of her throat and over the tongue. Let her close her beak and swallow, then do the next one.
> I'm so sorry you are sick right now. Makes all this even harder. I hope you are feeling better soon.
> No wonder your wife isn't happy with the whole thing. Tell her thank you for being so patient.
> 
> If the bread balls don't stick together, then add a very tiny bit of oil to help them to stick together better.


jay that's really great - i'll have to wait until my son comes home from work to hold her.

i contacted a few pigeon guys today but they're not interested in looking at her - i guess because of the possible disease risk you previously mentioned.

when i have her out i'll check the leg she's limping on - she's been stretching her wings a few times today so i'm hoping that's a good sign?

i'll let you know if any significant changes, one way or the other.

again, your help, much appreciated.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If you hold her on your lap and against your body, it gives you control so you should be able to do it even alone. If you are right handed, you would face her toward your right side, with her right side up against your stomach. Now you reach around her head with your left thumb and forefinger, and clasp her beak. This leaves your right hand free to help to open the beak. You would put in the bread ball, and push to the back of the throat and over the tongue. Push it way back or she will throw it back out. Now close her beak and let her swallow. Make the bread balls about the size of a pea. However many you need to soak up all the medicine. Good luck! 


I hope you are feeling some better today. This is difficult enough as you are just learning, if you were feeling well.


----------



## closter (Jul 2, 2016)

UPDATE ON MY RESCUED/INJURED BIRD - PLEASE ADVISE FURTHER.(apologies regarding caps etc)

i now have the bird 3+ weeks - she is presently kept (indoors) in a large hamster cage (36"x24"x18") with a smaller carrier/housing box inside.

she is eating, drinking, pooping well & is very alert.

however she still has a very bad limp - standing on one leg most of the time - leg not broken.

also, i don't see her flapping her wings at all although she does occasionally stretch them from time to time but i don't know, on that basis, if she can actually fly or not?

she will need to be accommodated outside but i don't know what to build considering her present problems with ground & flight immobility.

it's summer here but i'm worried about the winter & therefore, irrespective of what i build, should i just bring her in at night during that period?

any advice greatly appreciated.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I don't suppose you have let her free inside somewhere where she could try to fly have you? 
Some kind of a raised structure to keep it up off the ground, with a wired section to go out into the fresh air and sunshine, but an enclosure to get inside out of the weather and the cold. Bringing her in at night isn't a good idea, because she would acclimate to that, then be brought back out into the cold in the morning. At this point you don't really know if she could fly, if given the opportunity to practice if she wanted to.


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*I cannot imagine what the bad limp is about, if leg is not broken/sprained bruised/infected. Is there any swelling around the leg/feet, does it feel hot to touch? Is there any chance of fine hair/string wrapped around toes?? Just guessing.. *


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I'm thinking it was a sprain or break, but without a vet, hard to know exactly. Yes, it would be a good idea to check again for any hair or string wrapped around the leg or foot. As Sky has asked, is there any swelling or hot?


----------



## closter (Jul 2, 2016)

Jay3 said:


> I don't suppose you have let her free inside somewhere where she could try to fly have you?
> Some kind of a raised structure to keep it up off the ground, with a wired section to go out into the fresh air and sunshine, but an enclosure to get inside out of the weather and the cold. Bringing her in at night isn't a good idea, because she would acclimate to that, then be brought back out into the cold in the morning. At this point you don't really know if she could fly, if given the opportunity to practice if she wanted to.


thanks for that - as i mentioned before that although i have a large workshop that i use for my business (3d printing) i cannot risk placing a pigeon therein for any period of time - even my huskies aren't allowed in due to the hairs..

as she appears to have survived her injuries i am however concerned about her future quality of life.

she cannot be released (as you have mentioned) so a state of confinement is the only option.

in that respect could you please advise regarding any social needs? 

i would feel rather uncomfortable about placing another healthy bird within that environment??

many thanks.


----------



## closter (Jul 2, 2016)

update on my rescue "pecker"

i've placed a hold on the proposed 5' high by 3' x3' housing & the 5' x 4' x4' aviary.

due to refurbishment of our house the bird, much to my wife's displeasure (but less so than previously) has for about 2 weeks had the run of our long hall area - about 25'.
also just to mention there is very little mess to talk about.

she is able to jump down about 30" from her cage to the hall floor.

there are presently many boxes & hence perching positions yet pecker has not achieved in that respect & is just happy to walk about.

she does occasionally flap her wings with much vigor but there are no signs of any potential lift.

the dna gender test confirms female so could someone advise as to the following:-

1) important - am i correct in assuming she cannot fly?

2) is it imperative for her to have a female friend?

3) she is presently confined in a large guinea pig cage but is out for about 4 hours /day to wander.

so if she can't fly & requires no mate/friend as an absolute necessity would 3) above be satisfactory as a long-term solution?

i'm thinking if she really needs a friend but can't fly then i'll have to continue with the housing/aviary for the benefit the other bird. 

she has a mirror in her cage but i don't know if that's a good idea?

i put her outside in her cage about 2/week where i feed the wild birds but it is rather pitiful to see her need to be with them.

so the bottom line is - indoors to wander about freely without a mate or outdoors in a housing /aviary with one??

.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Hi Closter, I've been thinking of you a lot lately and wondering how it was going. 
Thanks for the update.
You have to do what you have to do, but pigeons are flock animals and unhappy alone. Especially where she isn't a pet that you interact with on a daily basis. You know, hold and give attention to. They are lonely alone. Just the way she reacts to the outside birds, shows you that she is lonely for company. 
If she isn't flying, she probably won't.

If you already have the shed, then just adding an aviary to it wouldn't be much work or expense I don't think. It could always be made larger later if you wanted to expand it. 
I don't know your situation, so can't tell you what to do, but it really isn't good for a pigeon to be alone, without a companion. Would make a world of difference to her.


----------



## closter (Jul 2, 2016)

hi jay - how is it going & thanks for your reply.

i had a delay on the gender test as i just sent feathers from her moult - there was not enough dna.

as i mentioned i'm doing a house refurbishment so "my friend" 
& i are presently the only residents - my wife & dogs are living with my son.

to be honest i forgot about the dogs returning so the bird wandering about the hallway (as is now) is not an future option.

i've already built a housing using two 5' x 6' garden fence panels - the 5' x 4' x 4' aviary is pending.

i know what you're saying about a friend but i don't like the idea of confining a healthy bird? - perhaps i'm going too deep?

cheers


----------



## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

We had a lone rescued feral, Phoebe, for eight wonderful years. We were her flock and her friends and I think she was pretty happy. She had a broken wing and was nearly decapitated before we rescued her, and I think she thought she was a human. We had a very large double flight cage and took her out twice each day for hours and she had a window and lots of toys. Am so glad to hear Pecker is doing well!


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Hi Closter. I forgot about the dogs too. LOL. I know what you're saying about confining a healthy bird. I really do understand. But how about confining a non flying bird all alone? They would be pretty busy together. As long as they are together, I don't think the flying bird would mind all that much. They would be safe, fed, and watered. In nature, they are usually flying to find food and water. Then they mostly just hang around anyway. But to be confined all alone would be awful for any animal. Pigeons are flock birds. Lots of birds live in aviaries.


----------



## closter (Jul 2, 2016)

cwebster said:


> We had a lone rescued feral, Phoebe, for eight wonderful years. We were her flock and her friends and I think she was pretty happy. She had a broken wing and was nearly decapitated before we rescued her, and I think she thought she was a human. We had a very large double flight cage and took her out twice each day for hours and she had a window and lots of toys. Am so glad to hear Pecker is doing well!


many thanks cwebster - did you never consider a friend for Phoebe when you had her or like me were you afraid of a breeding issue?

i put pecter outside when the weather is ok but she gets extremely agitated when the other garden birds come down to feed.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Closter, cwebster had Phoebe as a house pet. Not just kept in a cage, but out of cage for a few hours daily, and they handled and interacted with her when she was out of cage. You are not keeping your bird because you need another pet, who you will spend time and attention on. You have much on your plate already. You are keeping her just because you're a nice guy, and couldn't find someone to take her. You won't just throw her out or euthanize her. But I doubt that you will be spending a lot of time handling her and spending quality time with her. 
Even with attention and out of cage time to interact with people, a pigeon I'm sure would rather have another pigeon companion. Sitting in a cage all day isn't living.


----------



## closter (Jul 2, 2016)

Jay3 said:


> Hi Closter. I forgot about the dogs too. LOL. I know what you're saying about confining a healthy bird. I really do understand. But how about confining a non flying bird all alone? They would be pretty busy together. As long as they are together, I don't think the flying bird would mind all that much. They would be safe, fed, and watered. In nature, they are usually flying to find food and water. Then they mostly just hang around anyway. But to be confined all alone would be awful for any animal. Pigeons are flock birds. Lots of birds live in aviaries.


jay - just a couple of points i forgot to mention.

when i let her out to wander about the hallway (hope that means the same in the US) she does so by "flying down" from her cage but at an angle of 45 degrees away from it onto the ground - about 4'.

the height of the cage is about 30" from the ground so would that be considered a good sign regarding potential flight?

as i mentioned although the hallway is 20' long it's presently cluttered with boxes & there is barely a 24" pathway down it so perhaps she's not getting enough space to try & fly??

also she becomes extremely aggressive when i try to put food/water in her dishes & has started to really bite me (not just a peck).
it's gets particularly worse last thing at night.

generally i talk & try to stroke her continually but she's having none of it.

she doesn't appear to be a friendly bird so do you think a possible "friend" might receive the same treatment?

edit - i posted this before i read your last comment


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes, her flying a little like that is a good sign. Hard to tell when you don't have somewhere she can exercise those wings by flying. Good sign though. Sometimes though, they can just flutter to a low perch, or down to the floor, but can't really fly across a room, so hard to say.

As far as her aggression with you, she is defending what she perceives as her territory. That's normal. And pigeons generally don't like being stroked and petted. So that's normal. Pigeons like coming to you when they want to. To perch on your head or shoulder, or maybe just next to you. I have hens that will bite very hard if you put your hand into their box. But outside of the box, they are friendly. Has nothing to do with how she would be with a companion. They would have to be introduced slowly though. You can't just put one into the territory of another, or they will fight. In cages next to each other, they can get used to one another. Then they are let out together. You need to take it slowly with introductions.


----------



## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

We never considered a friend for Phoebe because she was our first pigeon and we didn't know much about pigeons plus she seemed to be happy enough with hours every day of out of cage interaction. The biting is normal. Phoebe bit and wing slapped at first. She was so severely injured that release was out of the question. She started playing rather than biting after a while...she would bite a toy instead that I would wiggle in front of her. Then she was a nonstop shoulder surfer and would run around and fly around and dance and play on the printer next to us and dance to tv programs. Now that I know more about pigeons, I would always get them a mate. But a mated pigeon will not be as tame to people.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

It all depends on the bird. If the bird is very friendly before being mated, then they often remain that way even after being mated up. Of course if they are not friendly and you pair them up, then they often won't get friendlier because they don't need you as much. But sometimes they do in time, if you spend the right kind of time with them. Easier to tame if they are alone though.


----------



## closter (Jul 2, 2016)

jay i thought i had the housing (5'x3'x3') & aviary (5'x4'x4') finally sorted but my wife just voiced her concern about keeping the 2 birds warm & comfortable during the winter months in such a relatively large housing area?

on reading past comments you recommended a secure "rabbit hutch" attached high up to an aviary.

however assuming pecker can't really fly & now considering the rabbit hutch as a possible option would it make sense to step a series of 4" long perches from the entrance of the hutch down the wall of the aviary to the floor?
also if she did manage to "fly directly" to the floor of the aviary from the hutch do you think she could figure out how to use the series of perches suggested to get back up again?

also would insulating the hutch with polystyrene & a w/proof cover seem sensible?

appreciating the dogs & that any indoors or outdoors options would now be considered (with the exception of a dedicated free flying room) what do you honestly think my best plan should be?

as i mentioned i'm presently refurbishing the house but this unresolved pigeon problem loop is really doing my head in 

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=42265&stc=1&d=1473894947

'pecker' in a land of chaos


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

closter said:


> jay i thought i had the housing (5'x3'x3') & aviary (5'x4'x4') finally sorted but my wife just voiced her concern about keeping the 2 birds warm & comfortable during the winter months in such a relatively large housing area?
> That isn't a large area. Peoples loft are larger than that and most don't heat. The larger area would be much better for them, as they spend a lot of time inside. So much better than a hutch.
> 
> 
> ...


...............................................


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Not a great picture, but just to give you an idea of the ramp. Just run it past the box.


----------



## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Like the ramp. Plus your birds are lovely and look happy, Jay! Closter, am so glad you are going to keep Pecker. If you get another birdie friend just get fake eggs and you will be all set. We have our birds in a shed we can close at night and if it is really cold we use an oil filled heater. It has doors and windows and is insulated and we have flight cages inside the shed.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Thanks cwebster. With the ramp, my pair of flightless birds have a box on the second level. They can walk right out the window to the bath because it is set on boxes. And there is a shelf that runs by the side of it that they can also use. Having handicapped birds makes it a challenge and keeps it interesting. They are the 2 birds out in the aviary in the picture. They all like using the ramp though.


----------



## closter (Jul 2, 2016)

Jay3 said:


> ...............................................


jay much appreciated & thanks also for the pic.

how many birds do you have & would you generally regard them as pets? 

i've got used to her walking about & will genuinely miss her however realistically there's no other option but to put her outside - lol even my wife is now worried about that..

once i get the shed/aviary built i'll post a pic.


----------



## closter (Jul 2, 2016)

Jay3 said:


> Thanks cwebster. With the ramp, my pair of flightless birds have a box on the second level. They can walk right out the window to the bath because it is set on boxes. And there is a shelf that runs by the side of it that they can also use. Having handicapped birds makes it a challenge and keeps it interesting. They are the 2 birds out in the aviary in the picture. They all like using the ramp though.


sorry jay - regarding my last post to you - for some reason i'm getting comments/replies out of chronological order hence i'm missing them.


----------



## closter (Jul 2, 2016)

cwebster said:


> Like the ramp. Plus your birds are lovely and look happy, Jay! Closter, am so glad you are going to keep Pecker. If you get another birdie friend just get fake eggs and you will be all set. We have our birds in a shed we can close at night and if it is really cold we use an oil filled heater. It has doors and windows and is insulated and we have flight cages inside the shed.


thanks cwebster - i got a gender dna test done on pecker a few weeks ago & she's a hen.

i will get another hen & hope they get along - jay says to keep them separate but visible to each other then finally hope for the best.

regarding heating: where i live in ireland the winter temps can reach as low as -15c but generally it's around -5c but from what i've read there seems to be a general consensus that heating is not required but..??


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Closter, I have 34 birds, and yes they are very much my pets. I have a rescue loft, so quite the mix. I do like to spend time with them and interact with them, so I heat in the winter time. Pretty hard to clean frozen droppings up, and I wouldn't be spending much time in there if it were freezing. Besides, I don't want them out there in freezing temps either. LOL. I try to keep it around 50*.


----------



## closter (Jul 2, 2016)

Jay3 said:


> Closter, I have 34 birds, and yes they are very much my pets. I have a rescue loft, so quite the mix. I do like to spend time with them and interact with them, so I heat in the winter time. Pretty hard to clean frozen droppings up, and I wouldn't be spending much time in there if it were freezing. Besides, I don't want them out there in freezing temps either. LOL. I try to keep it around 50*.


hi jay - just to confirm - from my previous post on heating - are you saying that my setup wouldn't require any heating?

i was going to install a trip protected & shielded 100w black heater controlled by a thermostat near the bottom of the shed set to activate at around 0 C - i really want it to be as good as i can make it for the birds.

sorry about the stream of questions - i sincerely appreciate your help & also that of cwebster.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I'm sorry Closter, I don't even know what that is. If it is safe, then it would be good. I heat mine, but most don't. I'm sure they are more comfortable if kept above freezing. I guess it all depends on how much one is willing to do. Also, if not heated, then the water freezes. People who don't heat have heaters that keep the water from freezing, or they change it a couple of times a day. With me heating mine, the water doesn't freeze.


----------



## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

We are very happy with our oil filled heater for the shed. Much safer.


----------



## closter (Jul 2, 2016)

Jay3 said:


> I'm sorry Closter, I don't even know what that is. If it is safe, then it would be good. I heat mine, but most don't. I'm sure they are more comfortable if kept above freezing. I guess it all depends on how much one is willing to do. Also, if not heated, then the water freezes. People who don't heat have heaters that keep the water from freezing, or they change it a couple of times a day. With me heating mine, the water doesn't freeze.


jay - my son was talking to a "reptile guy" in the pet store yesterday & he suggested a ceramic 60w infrared heater bulb - apparently it emits no visible light that would not disturb the birds during the night.

that seems a better option so i'm going with that & the housing/aviary setup mentioned before.

cheers.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I have used ceramic reptile heaters and they work great. But they weren't infrared. They are made of heavy ceramic, and safer than a bulb as they don't shatter like the bulbs can. It also has to be covered with something they can't land on, and some kind of hardware cloth or something covering the bulb so they can't fly into it.

These are nice because they radiate a nice warmth. I used to use it to just aim at a shelf or perching area to help keep them warm before getting them the heater.


----------



## closter (Jul 2, 2016)

cwebster said:


> We are very happy with our oil filled heater for the shed. Much safer.


cwebster - what power & size is it? - unfortunately i'll be limited to what i use as my shed is only going to be (5x3x3).

it's a lovely day here so pecker is outside enjoying the sunshine & the company of the garden birds - hope to have her enclosure finished next week we're presently laying flooring & trying to get the house finished asap as it's causing much disruption.


----------



## closter (Jul 2, 2016)

Jay3 said:


> I have used ceramic reptile heaters and they work great. But they weren't infrared. They are made of heavy ceramic, and safer than a bulb as they don't shatter like the bulbs can. It also has to be covered with something they can't land on, and some kind of hardware cloth or something covering the bulb so they can't fly into it.
> 
> These are nice because they radiate a nice warmth. I used to use it to just aim at a shelf or perching area to help keep them warm before getting them the heater.


jay - just a quick break from the sawing - you said you used the ceramics before getting "the heater" - is that an oil filled similar to what cwebster uses?
i like your idea of aiming the heat at their nesting area but due to my lack of space i'll have to place the lamp below(??)

i have a 24hr temperature data logger that i used last winter to check the enclosed outdoor kennels so i'll run several overnight random checks when the weather starts to really fall.

thanks for the pic.


----------



## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Will try to get more info on the heater when it gets light outside. So glad your shed plans are progressing and that you will be making a home for Pecker. She was a lucky bird to have found you.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Your shed is 5X3X3. So is the floor space 5X3, and the height 3 ft? Or is the shed 3X3 and the height 5ft? 
Think your shed is too small for a radiator heater. The lamp will warm what it shines on, no? So putting it under the nesting area doesn't make sense. 
Yes, mine is a radiator heat, but not made for such a small area as your shed. I think as long as they have a warmed area, to perch in when they want to, like with the reptile heater, they will be fine. 
And to answer your question about the radiator heater, they usually come in 1300 and 1500 watt heaters. You don't need that. Many don't heat at all, so giving them a little warmth where they can perch would be nice. But they will try to perch on it, and they can get burned, so that has to be taken care of.

Can you please just post a pic of the shed so we can get a better idea of what you can do? It would really help.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Here's the radiator heater.


----------



## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

That's the kind of heater we use but I think ours is less powerful. I just turn it on the lowest possible setting and it keeps the shed at 55 mist cold nights. I think our shed is 8 x 5.
Just be careful using any ceramic bulb. I quit using glass and ceramic bulbs with our herps because they can get really hot. There are deep fixtures though you can get for herps along with night heating bulbs of various strengths that you might want to consider too. We put those on our Pacman tanks for warmth.
http://www.petmountain.com/product/...oo-med-combo-deep-dome-dual-lamp-fixture.html these come in single and double and are also made for brooder purposes. You can get various bulbs to fix which are night bulbs.
We also have low wattage heating mats we got for our very spoiled indoor cats you might consider. You could provide one on one side if the cage or shed and you can cover them with a cloth or towel for cleaning.
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=Cat+heating+mat


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

cwebster said:


> That's the kind of heater we use but I think ours is less powerful. I just turn it on the lowest possible setting and it keeps the shed at 55 mist cold nights. I think our shed is 8 x 5.
> Just be careful using any ceramic bulb. I quit using glass and ceramic bulbs with our herps because they can get really hot. There are deep fixtures though you can get for herps along with night heating bulbs of various strengths that you might want to consider too. We put those on our Pacman tanks for warmth.
> We also have low wattage heating mats we got for our very spoiled indoor cats you might consider. You could provide one on one side if the cage or shed and you can cover them with a cloth or towel for cleaning.


What ceramix bulbs are you talking about? The one in that pictures? The ones I have do get hot, but they are used with the right fixture, and are protected from the birds, so not a problem. You can't just use them in a regular fixture.


----------



## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

http://www.petmountain.com/product/...agen-exo-terra-exo-terra-night-heat-lamp.html
I like the night bulbs because they emit heat only and fit in those deep fixtures which are safer. You can go very low or higher wattage by changing bulbs and since they are in the fixture they don't get broken. They are made by various manufacturers in various price ranges but are pretty cheap. Our cats can knock the fixture over and no harm is done. We just use the oil filled radiant heating in the shed but with a smaller shed you might want to use a ceramic or reptile light or even a pet mat. The birds can sit or stand on a mat to stay warm...we did that with Phoebe when she was having health issues and she would move off if she was too warm.
There are also ceramic heat emitters. Just brainstorming. http://www.petmountain.com/product/...0/hagen-exo-terra-exo-terra-heat-emitter.html


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

cwebster said:


> http://www.petmountain.com/product/...agen-exo-terra-exo-terra-night-heat-lamp.html
> I like the night bulbs because they emit heat only and fit in those deep fixtures which are safer. You can go very low or higher wattage by changing bulbs and since they are in the fixture they don't get broken. They are made by various manufacturers in various price ranges but are pretty cheap. Our cats can knock the fixture over and no harm is done. We just use the oil filled radiant heating in the shed but with a smaller shed you might want to use a ceramic or reptile light or even a pet mat. The birds can sit or stand on a mat to stay warm...we did that with Phoebe when she was having health issues and she would move off if she was too warm.
> *There are also ceramic heat emitters.* Just brainstorming. http://www.petmountain.com/product/...0/hagen-exo-terra-exo-terra-heat-emitter.html



Yes, the emitters is the pic I have posted. They are safer than the bulbs, as bulbs can and do shatter, and the emitters don't.


----------



## closter (Jul 2, 2016)

Jay3 said:


> Your shed is 5X3X3. So is the floor space 5X3, and the height 3 ft? Or is the shed 3X3 and the height 5ft?
> Think your shed is too small for a radiator heater. The lamp will warm what it shines on, no? So putting it under the nesting area doesn't make sense.
> Yes, mine is a radiator heat, but not made for such a small area as your shed. I think as long as they have a warmed area, to perch in when they want to, like with the reptile heater, they will be fine.
> And to answer your question about the radiator heater, they usually come in 1300 and 1500 watt heaters. You don't need that. Many don't heat at all, so giving them a little warmth where they can perch would be nice. But they will try to perch on it, and they can get burned, so that has to be taken care of.
> ...


jay - the shed will be 5' high - i bought 2 (5''x6') garden fence panels that i'll get the sides & door from - they were only £30 - i'm waiting on a roll of 1" p/styrene for the insulation..

regarding the heating - i can buy a 500w oil filled mini heater for £15 - its size is 10"(L)x6"(D)x15"(H) so as you guy's are using them i'll go with that?

my final setup for 2 birds is going to be:
an insulated/ventilated shed 5' high x3'x3' raised about 3" off the ground with an aviary access platform/door near the bottom due to pecter not being able to fly'

it will have a couple of nesting boxes similar to yours (one with a ramp) & will be heated with a 500w mini oil filled heater.

an aviary 5' high x4'x4' covered with 1/2" welded mesh will be attached.

when i get the setup completed i'll post up some pics & perhaps you'll be kind enough to look at them.


----------



## closter (Jul 2, 2016)

cwebster said:


> http://www.petmountain.com/product/...agen-exo-terra-exo-terra-night-heat-lamp.html
> I like the night bulbs because they emit heat only and fit in those deep fixtures which are safer. You can go very low or higher wattage by changing bulbs and since they are in the fixture they don't get broken. They are made by various manufacturers in various price ranges but are pretty cheap. Our cats can knock the fixture over and no harm is done. We just use the oil filled radiant heating in the shed but with a smaller shed you might want to use a ceramic or reptile light or even a pet mat. The birds can sit or stand on a mat to stay warm...we did that with Phoebe when she was having health issues and she would move off if she was too warm.
> There are also ceramic heat emitters. Just brainstorming. http://www.petmountain.com/product/...0/hagen-exo-terra-exo-terra-heat-emitter.html


thanks cwebster - you guys seem to be happier with the oil heaters rather than the ceramics.
as i mentioned to jay i can buy a 500w variable, mini oil heater for £15 - its size is 10"x6"x15" so would easily fit into my small shed.

i'll post up some pics when i get the housing/aviary built.

i've been experiencing problems with some of the replies being out of sequence so it's possible i might miss some.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Before you buy the heater, make sure it can be used in such a small space. I know my oil filled radiator instructions say not to use it in a very small space. They are better than a regular heater in that you don't want something that blows hot air. These just radiate heat. But as I said, check first that it can be used in that small of a space. Remember that most don't heat their lofts.


----------



## closter (Jul 2, 2016)

cwebster said:


> http://www.petmountain.com/product/...agen-exo-terra-exo-terra-night-heat-lamp.html
> I like the night bulbs because they emit heat only and fit in those deep fixtures which are safer. You can go very low or higher wattage by changing bulbs and since they are in the fixture they don't get broken. They are made by various manufacturers in various price ranges but are pretty cheap. Our cats can knock the fixture over and no harm is done. We just use the oil filled radiant heating in the shed but with a smaller shed you might want to use a ceramic or reptile light or even a pet mat. The birds can sit or stand on a mat to stay warm...we did that with Phoebe when she was having health issues and she would move off if she was too warm.
> There are also ceramic heat emitters. Just brainstorming. http://www.petmountain.com/product/...0/hagen-exo-terra-exo-terra-heat-emitter.html


thanks for that cwebster - you are right - i was committed to a mini oil heater because you guys were using them but for my small space a ceramic will do the job fitted to the top of the shed in a protective holder like jay's..

i'll use it with a thermostat and will keep a check on the temps using my temperature datalogger that i used last winter for the enclosed outdoor dog kennels - i thinking of a temperature of around 5C

i'll keep you posted


----------



## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Must get really cold there. We try to keep our birds above 55 F which I guess is about 13 C.


----------



## closter (Jul 2, 2016)

Jay3 said:


> Before you buy the heater, make sure it can be used in such a small space. I know my oil filled radiator instructions say not to use it in a very small space. They are better than a regular heater in that you don't want something that blows hot air. These just radiate heat. But as I said, check first that it can be used in that small of a space. Remember that most don't heat their lofts.


ok jay i'm back to the ceramic s - i want to keep the birds warm so i'll be looking at a controlled temp of about 5C or so.- i'll probably have to experiment with the wattage.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

closter said:


> ok jay i'm back to the ceramic s - i want to keep the birds warm so i'll be looking at a controlled temp of about 5C or so.- i'll probably have to experiment with the wattage.


I used the 250 watt to keep a small section of perches warm. They won't heat the loft, they will make it warm where you aim them. So if you are wanting the whole loft warm, I don't know how well they will heat the air. As long as they can warm a section though, that's all you really need.


----------



## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Agree with jay3. Just warming a section is all you need.


----------

