# New keeper to injured pigeon



## SueC (Jun 9, 2005)

Hi All,

Recently I picked up a pigeon which was lying on the road. The skin on its chest was ripped off together with some of its wing feathers. One of the wing and a leg were hit by don't know what. After a 10-day treatment by the vet, there seems to be a slight improvement in the wing. However the leg still require long term neuro medication. It is now standing on the other leg.

It's stucked with me for good, at least until it recovers fully.

Would appreciate your advices on its maintenance - housing, food, proper care, etc. I live in a small apartment and therefore not be able to provide it with ample loft space.

Thanks for your input!

Suzanna


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Hi Suzanna,

Welcome to Pigeons.com and thank you so much for caring for this needy pigeon.

The following information is courtesy of our moderator Maryco. I believe it will answer most of your questions:

Basic Needs for a Pet Pigeon 

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Pigeons make wonderful pets and are pretty easy to care for, here are some basic things that pigeons need: 

Water:
1. Fresh water (change it twice a day if it gets dirty quickly) 

Feed:
2. A good pigeon mix either from a feed supply or pigeon supply store is best. Bulk stores often carry some grains which can be mixed to make a pigeon mix, make sure they are good quality and not infested with bugs (Wheat weevils are a common problem in the wheat that I have bought from a bulk store) 
A good mix with quality grain should contain most of these seeds: Wheat, barley, whole corn/unpopped pop corn, white/green peas, maple peas, buckwheat, flax, milo, millet, safflower, vetch and others..

There are many mixes out there, here is a good site:
http://purgrain.com/ingredients.htm
http://purgrain.com/products.htm

Grit:
Grit (Not gravel from a pet shop) aids in the digestion of seed and pigeons enjoy picking at it for minerals and other benefits. Red cross grit is most often found at a feed supply store, it contains crushed oyster shells and is a good source of calcium.
Also offering chopped cuttle bone to your pigeon is another good calcium source, this is especially good for hens who are about to lay.

Supplements:
4. Pigeons kept indoors will need a vitamin supplement because they are not exposed to direct sunlight to produce their own vitamin D3. A good Avian Supplement can be found at a pet shop or from a pigeon supply store. Make sure it contains vitamin D3 (Prime, by Hagens is a good product that I recommend)

Snacks:
Some snacks that pigeons enjoy occassionally are, Raw unsalted peanuts (NOT roasted), safflower, sunflower hearts, hemp, sesame seeds (raw) and others..

Fruits and Veggies:
5. Some pigeons enjoy eating veggies and some fruits.
Vegetables to try are fresh spinach leaves, garlic greens, kale, lettuce (Romaine is best and not iceberg) grated carrots, thawed peas and corn from the freezer bags. Sprouts are also very nutritious, you can grow your own as that's safer. Lentil sprouts and mung bean sprouts grow very quickly and pigeons LOVE them!
**Avoid Veggies like Broccoli, cauliflower and cabbage.

Fruits: So far I've only tried fresh papaya fruit with my own pigeons, papaya contains enzymes which aid in the digestion. Only small amounts should be given though.
**Avoid Avocado as it's toxic to all birds.

Additional benefits:
- Adding ACV (Apple cider vinegar) to the water once a week, this helps keeps add some acidity to the system which keeps diseases like coccidiosis, canker and crop candida away.
The dose is 1 tbsp per gallon of fresh water. 
- Probiotic powder mixed into the seed (moistened with afew drops of sunflower oil, garlic oil, or corn oil) or adding the probiotics to the water once a week as well will help replace the good gut bacteria. If this is not convenient then an alternative is giving a probiotic capsule every 2 weeks or month down the pij's throat.
Probiotic capsules can be bought from a health food store, the same kind that humans can take.
Probiotic powder can also be found at a health food store. 
The product in the following link is designed for pigeons specifically and is available at Jedds and Siegel:
http://www.siegelpigeons.com/catalog-dia.html

- Five medium cloves of garlic can be put in a gallon of water or a tiny bit of grated garlic in the water bowls, garlic is healthy and keeps the feathers looking nice and keeps internal parasites away.
- A brewer's yeast tablet (avaiable at pet shops, mostly for dogs) and cod liver oil capsule (for vitamin A and Omega 3 which keeps the feathers shiny) can be given once every 2 months or so.. 
**Be careful not to overdose on the Cod liver oil as Vitamin A can be toxic if given too much.


Housing: 

A nice cage will do for overnight roosting, the pigeon should be able to stretch out both wings and still have some room. Pigeons don't really like round perches so you can get a flat perch.
The droppings should be cleaned once a day to keep the cage clean and the pigeon healthy. 
If the pet pigeon is to be kept in the cage most of the day then he needs a big indoor cage (Of course still needs some flying time outside the cage as well, building a cage is much more convenient as many of our members have. Cages that big are hard to find and expensive)
If the pigeon can be kept free in a seperate room even just in the day time then that's much better.

Bathing:
Once or twice a week putting out a tub with water will help keep the pigeons clean, pigeons LOVE baths but will splash around quite a bit so an old shower curtain on the floor will make it easier to clean up
_________________________________________________________________


Also, here is a link to a previous thread that discusses homemade indoor cages, if you would be interested in that. Just click on it:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=10500


Okay, that should help get you started. If you have any other questions, we have many members here who will be more than glad to help.

Linda


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## SueC (Jun 9, 2005)

Thanks for the quick reply, Linda.

The links provide a very good start for us.

Thanks!

Suzanna


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## SueC (Jun 9, 2005)

This Piggy is a real fussy eater!

The vet was feeding her with red and green beans during her stay there. As this is not a balanced diet (I think), I went to get a proper bird feed for doves and some grit during the weekend. She simply refuse the new food placed in her bowl. 

I'm now using the "Eat or starve" technique to convert her to the new diet but I'm wondering if this is the best way in view of her crippled condition. Can anyone advise?

Thanks!

Suzanna


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*Food*

Sometimes they are in so much pain. They won't eat so you need to help them til they feel better. Also might be a baby and not know how to eat. Or there could be some brain damage and it might not remeber how to eat. Look up tube or balloon feeding.


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## SueC (Jun 9, 2005)

Don't think it's a baby as its fully fledged. Neither it is in great pain or suffering from brain damage because it gobbled up all the green and red beans as soon as I filled its bowl. I think it's a matter of preference and that it is not very adventurous in its food habits.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Suzanna, 


Thank you for helping this Bird...!

You could refer to this link to see if you can determine the approximate age of this Pigeon, if it is in fact a young one -

http://www.speedpigeon.com/baby_racing_pigeon.htm

If a late adolescent or adult, just try getting several kinds of Seeds to see if it likes any of them.

Also, my own method when time allows, for Birds injured to this extent, is to hold them quite a bit when I am doing things that allow it. I just hold them gently and usually, at times, hold them so they can reach into a small Bowl of Seeds, where I also 'peck' with them or to interest them, useing my crook'd index finger.

Since they need to be handled off and on, I prefer them to soon find it to be something positive and re-inforced with food-social-occasions, which allows them to feel easier about it all, and so then not to waste energy on anxieties.

Too, in some delicae way, when holding them, one may in a sense, 'flow' a kind of affection or energy into them in some way, which while hard to describe, does benifit them in their recovery.

As some of the excellent above replys have covered about all else so well, this is about all I can think of to add...!

If you have time to read Books or watch television or the likes, these are good times to hold them and peck with them in a little seed bowl on the desk or table edge where you hold them so they can reach it.

I have allways had good luck with this, although some have been wiggle-worms at times, while most were soon calm and comfortable.

It is important one finds ways of assureing them, in deference to them, that the situation favors them unambiguously...

So, for now, see if you can determine if this is a younger Bird or an adult...and let us know how it goes?


Good Luck...

If you have not dealt with them previously, you will soon find with this experience, that they are charming and sensitive Creatures...

Phil
lasvegas


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## SueC (Jun 9, 2005)

Thank you very much for the link, Phil.

It is an adult pigeon and I guess I'll just have to be patient with her. I'm just worried that she is not getting the proper nutrition needed to put her back to good health.

As her leg and wing are injured, I'm not very sure if it is a good idea to hold her often, especially she seems pretty defensive. Don’t want to add further damage to her. I get snapped at whenever I give her the daily doses of medication. She's pretty good with using her uninjured wing to hit my hand. Not that I mind as I guess it's her natural instincts.

I'm giving her some fresh corn this morning and I hope she likes them.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Yahhhhh...

I have one now, who I have had a couple weeks...and adult feral, who was hit (I think) by a Rock, and...

Anyway, I decided to handle him more than usual since I do not have many Birds right now. Being very gentle, long story short, he soon allowed it without protest and then allowed me to 'preen' under his chin and around his eyes and neck and so on, and became comfortable with me picking him up.

Now he is flying around in the phase of being a free indoor Bird, and another few days I will release him.

Anyway, it is all in how one does it, and since some must be handled to minister to them, I like for them to accept it positively when possible.

So, what did the Vet say about the Wing?

Phil
lasvegas


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*Spoiled Rotten*

little bird. Sounds like you are doing good with the bird. She really likes her special diet. And doesn't want anything to do with poeple. Keep up the good work. God Bless you


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I suppose you could work with a mix of the red and green beans (you have a supply, right?) with the regular stuff and then slowly taper off the red and green beans and she'll hopefully slowly pick up eating the other stuff.

Pidgey


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Anyway...some further thoughts - 

My method for introduceing them to be being held, is to slip my hands around them from the front, so my little fingers are inside of their legs, and to cup them llike that gently, then, slowly, so they do not really notice, I lift them so the legs dangle.

They will relax their legs this way, and, usually they will relax in general. Also Italk to them softly and compliment them and so on.

They feel themselves kind of 'float' this way, and it is safe to do with injuries of the legs or wings.

Variations of this hold, allow them to to be held up to a small bowl of Seeds or Water, or for such to be held up to them also.

For resting times, for Birds with a leg injury, a sort of do-nut or "u" shape of a rolled small Towell is also nice, to support their body without them needing to have any pressure on their leg. This is a good way for them also to be for reaching their Seed or Water Bowl.

Phil
el ve


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## SueC (Jun 9, 2005)

Had been mixing some of her favourite beans with the new feed for the last 2 days. She was smart enough to pick out the beans without touching the rest. Left for work this morning with just her new feed and corn in her food bowl. I'll know when I return this evening if she has eaten. Boy, she's a tough nut to crack!

The vet was non-committal about her condition. Putting a pin in her wing may not help and the damage to her leg could be neuro. Hence she's put on some neuron medication currently. Guess only time will tell. I'm just trying to get the right footing with this bird and put her on a proper diet that helps her condition. 4 months back, I picked up a crow from the drain and the vet diagnosed that the bones at the leg and wing were completely fragmented and he could not fly or walk again. Well, the vet was right about the leg. The crow is still hopping around but boy, he can fly. And the best part is this fella eats whatever that is given so I'm able to pump him with lots of nutritional stuff that helped to improve his condition. I'm just hopping this pigeon can co-operate like the crow.

Hi Phil, need to clarify the holding bit. So is it one hand supporting the tummy area and the other hand cupping its wings?


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Suzanna, 


You mention - 
"Hi Phil, need to clarify the holding bit. So is it one hand supporting the tummy area and the other hand cupping its wings?"

No...or, I usually start the holding with both hands from the front, cupped hands, little fingers slide just inside of their legs, and I sort of hold them gently like that then slowly lift them so they do not notice being lifted.

One hand variations are kind of tricky if the Bird wishes to wiggle..!

But some do and some dont...

I will do one hand, legs dangleing between my fingers, and have them slightly against my chest also...

I would think Beans should be fine, they are nutritious...

Seems an odd choice for a Pigeon to make!

You can add Water Soluable Nutrients or Vitamines of course to her Water...


Phil
Las Vegas


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## SueC (Jun 9, 2005)

Hi Phil,

Thanks for the quick reply. 

I'm just afraid that its 'good' wing will flap. As it is, it is using this wing to 'slap' my hand.  Guess, I would have to try out the several holding methods and hopefully arrive at one that she's comfortable with. 

I also think I will name her Beanie as she's so much into beans!

Suzanna


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

...the two-hand from the front, little fingers slid inside their legs...will not let them do any Wing-things...one's hands cup them this was from both sides, and, their qweight is borne on one's little fingers under them.

It can be a good way to get them to agree to being touched...done gently, having them 'float' in that way, they seem to like it, and all the better if one makes gently admireing and soothing sounds...

Usually, allways moveing slowly, after a few rounds of this, one may soon 'preen' their necks or under their chins also.

They might be happy being held, or less ythan happy, but, at least it is then merely a slight annoyance rather than a real disturbance or fear-thing for them...it is good if they may find agreeable associations with it, anyway...and this has worked pretty well for me.

Is she able to stand then?

Phil
las vages


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## SueC (Jun 9, 2005)

Hey, thanks!

I did just that last evening and she did not bite or struggle at all. She did not seem to 'mind' the medicating bit after that. I just wish I have more time to socialise with her. 

Beanie can stand on her good leg. Infact she was hopping around when I let her out in the evenings. But she still refuse her new food. So I'm giving her more beans today. Tough one!

Suzanna


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Suzanna,


Oh very good...!


Yahhh...sometimes when they have been hurt, their appetites are off for a while...

Sometimes crushing some anise Seeds will inspire them a little, putting them on their Seed...

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Suzanna,

Most pigeons have their preferences and however varied the mix that they are given will pick their favourites out. They are incredibly quick at identifying their preferences in a choice and make a magnificent mess swiping the mix with their beaks to uncover any hidden favourite bits.

I try not to leave too much food out so that they can first pick at their favourite bits and hopefully finish up with other stuff. One thing that always baffles me is the inclusion of linseed in pigeon diets...even the hungriest garden visitors turn up their beaks at the linseed.

Cynthia


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi cyro51,

Funny...

My varied feral convelescents, and also my Wild Flock, accept the Linseeds nicely and eat them.

But rarely do any eat say, the small Lentils I sometimes buy them...Black Lentils the size of say a Sorgum Seed ( about 3 mm or so in diameter)...

I sometimes grind up, or buy fairly fresh coarse ground, Linseed ( Flax Seed to some) for feeding the youngsters in their 'soup'...

Got some of the White Safflower Seeds, and everyone seems to like them.

Hulled or unhulled Sunflower Seeds everyone likes...

No one here will eat a (out of the Hull of course, of ) 'Peanut' which supposedly, Pigeons 'love'...!

Lol...

There seem to be something of regional disparities in their tastes...


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

LOL! I have only to call "treaties" at the door of my aviary and there is a stampede for the peanuts that will follow, you would think none of them had eaten for a week. They also love hemp seed. And as you say, everyone loves Safflower!

Cynthia


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## SueC (Jun 9, 2005)

Hmm... good ideas!

I think I try the various types of seeds and hopefully Beanie likes some of them. Boy, this means, I have to consume the unwanted seeds!


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Actually, any good quality Bird Seed is delicous..!  

I allways eat a little dab of them to assure myself they are good. It is a good way to test them.

The White Safflower Seeds I recently got a big bag of, have a very nice flavor.

Some will have different flavors in maybe an odd or spicey way sometimes even, but all are nice to chew and taste that way. One could do well to eat lots of them in fact...they are very nutritious, and 'Bread' sadly, can not hold-a-candle to them in that regard.

Some of myy reasoning for not wishing to use, exclusively, any of the powdered 'Baby Bird' mixes commercially available, is that being they are mostly coarse 'flower' of various grains, once they were ground, the oxidation reduces their nutritional potentials from that of 'fresh' seasoned un-ground Seeds. Hence, I have tended to grind my own as I need them for that day for making Baby formulas.

The commercial mixes of course add various minerals and vitamines, which really does little more then compensate artificially, for the loss of nutritive value of the coarse flower being stored for some indefinite time on a shelf.

The possible 'best' we can do on our own wits, just might be a good deal 'better' than the canned powders, especially if we grind our own good tasty Seeds, and add to them some small additions of extra mineral sources or natural Vitamine sources ( Ocean Kelps, Wheat Grass, Brewer's Yeast, whatever...)

It is easy to tell if Seed is too 'old' and dried out this way, also...if one eat some of it to test it.

The Oat groats, Wheat, Rape Seeds, Flax ( or Linseed ) and others which I do not know the names of, all of them, are very nicely flavored. They make a nice little snack for taking little handfulls of through out the day and just chewing them and enjoying them that way. Infinitely better than people's usuual 'snack' items!

I used to buy the Swiss 'Museli' ( sp?) Breakfast Cereal for myself, (hard to find here now ) and, into it, put a good handfull of varied Bird Seeds...yummy...

A healthy Pigeon, in my experience, if you hold them and playfully bury your nose amid their Feathers, has a wonderful gentle smell, which is just like that of fresh sweet Grains...  


Phil
Las Vegas


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## SueC (Jun 9, 2005)

Dear All,

Doing all I can to help the little fella.

I'm running around to get some homeopathic remedy (refer to other thread) and has just gotten some human grade probiotic powder. Can't find any for pigeons.

How much of probiotic powder should I give the bird? 

Suzanna


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Suzanna, 


Have you tried feeding your Bird, who is fairly 'young' yet if memory serve, feeding them out of the hollow of a Baby Nipple? ( "tepid" or warm 'Soup' of course...)

If I already asked somewhere and forgot, please forgive me.

I just did the end-of-the-day 'Soup' rounds of one very enthusiastic and already stuffed-full anyway from his own new found pecking skills of two week old Baby, one not-so-baby, one two and a half month old, and, now too, the Adult feral with a hurt bandaged wing, who is enjoying little forays into a second childhood with him also having a (gentle and composed way about him in this compared to the youngsters manner!) go or two of the Nipple...amid all them WINGS and squeaks and so on...chaos! Eeeeeek!

So, everyone got the 'Soup' tonight and they all enjoyed it.

Yours might too!

Do the "Oooooo! - Oooooo!" in a medium low, slow voice...

If yours responds well...it is one more easy way to get nutrients and small Seeds into them...

Even gently massage your's Beak with your moist finger tips while "Oooooo!" ing, and see...if there is a little bit of nuzzle and or shoulder motion, then gently guide their Beak into the Nipple ollow with the gravy-like Soup in it.

If it does work, then you get to find out what they'll like!  

Lol...sometimes I have to make a second different (allways small for maybe two or three rounds at most, of ) batch, if for who knows 'why', they or some of them do not seem to like my first one...so, I just shift the ingredients and try again. Usually if this does happen, the second batch is a winner...

If this shows promise, I will gladly supply some of my various basic 'Soup' recipes if you liked.


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

SueC said:


> Dear All,
> 
> How much of probiotic powder should I give the bird?
> 
> Suzanna


Hi Suzanna, 

Just a wee bit is fine but you really can't overdose a bird on probiotics. A 1/4 teaspoon in the formula or over the food is good. If you sprinkle on the feed, then use a few drops of corn, sunflower or olive oil to moisten them, sprinkle the powder then mix


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## SueC (Jun 9, 2005)

Hi Phil - Beanie is already getting some form of 'soups' into her every day. She's taking the beans on her own. I'll do the "Ooooo!'-ing and hope that she can be propelled to eat the pigeon mix on her own too. 

Thanks, Brad, for the advice on probiotics. I'll try either way and see which one works better! She's really fussy about her seeds and I'm afraid she'll not eat the coated beans. Anyway, I'll try and keep my fingers crossed at the same time! 

Thanks!
Suzanna )


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Suzanna,



The "Oooooo!" is for if one is going to feed them, feed them in some way 'like' their Pigeon parents would, and would not make sense to them for their own pecking.

The 'Nipple' allows a high percentage of whole, small Seeds to be in the 'Soup', where, a syringe mightr nor do this.

It also re-assures them emotionally sometimes, for them to kind of 'back up', adjust something, and then move forward again.


Glad to hear she is taking the beans on her own again!


Good luck...!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## SueC (Jun 9, 2005)

Hi Phil,

Thanks for the tips!

Cheers,
Suzanna


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## SueC (Jun 9, 2005)

*New problem ? Hope not!*

This concerns Poop-ology.

Beanie is currently on mung beans (main diet), Kaytree Exact as supplemental food, multi-vits, calcivet, probiotics and B-complex. She's eating about 2 tablespoonful of beans each day.

Will consuming red cross grit give a tinge of red/brown to her poop? I'm not sure if Beanie is taking the grit but on 2 separate days earlier, I found a tinge of red/brown in her green poop. The other patches of poop looked OK - white urates, clear urine and green feces. However, this evening, I discovered she has passed out poop which looks like :










What's wrong with her?

Suzanna


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Suzanna,

That's very hard to tell. The reddish coloring looks like red blood cells (erythrocytes. I don't know if you have access to a microscope but they are very easy to see with one. The slide preparation is simple and can be done several ways but you can just use something like a Q-Tip to roll/smear a thin layer onto the slide and let it air-dry or speed it up with a blow-dryer. They will appear as oval bodies with a slightly darkened oval center. I can find you a picture if you like.

Anyhow, if this is in fact blood, it can be from a variety of causes, some serious and some not as bad. There could be an enteritis (ulcerative intestinal infection/inflammation), hemorrhage from a cyst in another organ like the liver, the kidneys, the oviduct. It's just not easy to tell. I've had one pigeon that had an infection of the oviduct that produced that very same discharge on a continuing basis for quite some time, although it often came every third or fourth poop. You can read about that in the thread:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=10686

That might give you some idea what to feel for in terms of swelling or hardnesses in the abdominal region. Your past posts on this bird regarding passing undigested food does indicate some kind of internal problems.

Let me ask you a question--with specific regard to the reddish tinted fluid, does it have a "snot-like" consistency? That is, when you roll a Q-Tip in it, does it immediately "soak" into it or does it seem to not quite want to stick on for a good sample? If it's quite watery, it won't have any problem soaking into the Q-Tip but if it's snotty, it'll appear to want to stay together like a mixture of egg-whites and slightly thickened mucous.

Pidgey


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I don't know if we recommended the colloidal silver, but you might get that in case there is an infection. Sovereign Silver is the best, but make sure it is 10ppm, and a reputable brand, you can pick it up at the health food store.
You can add a few drops to her drinking bowl.

Has the birds behavior changed any? Is she lethargic, fluffed up, or anything like that?

Have you changed the nutition or anything in the diet in the last few days? 

Treesa


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## SueC (Jun 9, 2005)

Thanks for the replies.

I don't have the stuff - microscope, etc on hand so I think it's best to get Beanie to the vet.

With your permission, Pidgey, I will also show the vet the sticky on the ruptured oviduct as she (the vet) is not a avian vet.

Besides adding some B-comp into her food the day before, Beanie did not have any change in her diet. 

This morning, she passed out undigested beans again. So I guess the trip to the vet is definitely necessary.

She's still eating her favourite beans just now.

Suzanna


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

If she is getting a little too much B-complex, that may be part of the discoloration of the poop, if it is yellow. It is harmless as it is a water soluble vitamin, but I thought I'd mention it for what it is worth. I would definitely take her to the vet.

Treesa


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, you need to take a sample of that poop--might want to refrigerate it. One thing that you might be able to do is see if the specific fluid containing the reddish tint will "fry like an egg". That is, if heated does it form the same kind of material as a cooked egg white.

Sure, you can show that article to the vet. A non-avian vet will not like the idea of cutting into a bird but it would be possible to do with the correct materials (information on isoflurane dose, anatomy & physiology) on hand if it becomes necessary. I can provide that but let's just hope it's an infection and can be cleared up with an antibiotic. I'm stuck traveling at the moment and probably won't get home until Saturday.

You might try force-feeding her some food rendered into a paste so that she gets some nutrition with less effort. It sounds like her gizzard is having a hard time.

I gotta' go and will try to check in later tonight!

Pidgey


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## SueC (Jun 9, 2005)

*Update on visit to the vet*

Beanie gave very nice poop today. No tinge of redness. Fecal examination found nothing drastic in her feces. Very clean - no coccidia, no red blood cells, worms, etc. Only some psuedocysts which the vet said is very common in mammals and not that harmful. No lump or hardness in her abdomen. Infact the vet said that Beanie has put on some weight and looks better than she last seen her 3 weeks ago.

I'm still scratching my head on that reddish bit in her urates yesterday. The vet has no idea whatsoever on the cause. Anyway, she gave me some Bactrium in case the reddish tinge return. It is supposed to treat coccidiosis and some other common digestive problems. When I come across another poop with the reddish tinge, I will send in for fecal examination again.

I don't have a good feeling on this especially with the undigested seeds that are passed out. I'm not sure if it is stress that causes Beanie to react as such. It's stressful for her every day with the supplemental food given by syringe and I know she don't like it. 

Anyhow, I'll monitor her situation closely and hope it won't turn for the worse. 

She's still eating well ... just had her supper after her supplemental feed.  

Suzanna


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## SueC (Jun 9, 2005)

Trees Gray said:


> If she is getting a little too much B-complex, that may be part of the discoloration of the poop, if it is yellow. It is harmless as it is a water soluble vitamin, but I thought I'd mention it for what it is worth. I would definitely take her to the vet.
> 
> Treesa


Hi Tressa,

The urates is yellowish-white. So I guess it could be due to the B-complex. What I'm worried is the reddish tinge in her poop and the undigested beans.

Can I give her collodial silver even if she is not diagnosed with anything?

So far her poop looks normal today ... crossing fingers that it's kept that way!

Suzanna


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Suzanna, 

Is Beanie eating any grit at all?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Can I give her collodial silver even if she is not diagnosed with anything?

Suzanna[/QUOTE]

Absolutely, I always give it to my birds if I suspect an infection. It can be given orally (a drop down the throat),or a drop in her formula, once she eats on her own, a drop in her drinking water. It is far less troublesome then some harsh drugs, especially if the bird has an upset stomach. Drugs will wipe out her gut bacteria, so be sure to give the probtioces if you do decide to use the medication.

The probiotics help birds to absorb their food better, therefore they put on weight. I noticed it the last time I gave mine a dose or two. (...the little porkers LOL)

Treesa


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Suzanna,

Watch close and keep the papers clean so that you can bottle up the complete poop if she does it again. That'll be the only way to figure it out if it happens again.

Pidgey


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## SueC (Jun 9, 2005)

Hi Brad,

I am offering Beanie grit in a separate bowl. I'm not sure if she's taking any. Do pigeons pass out reddish brown stuff in their poop when they take grit?

Hi Tressa,

I'll give her a drop of CS tomorrow in her water and hope this help with her tummy problem, if any.

Hi Pidgey,

Found a little patch of 'problematic' poop this morning but it's dried up so I can't do the Q-tip test or send it to the vet. Never mind, I hope I don't have a chance again but if it comes by, I will definitely shoot to the clinic.

Thanks!
Suzanna


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Suzanna, 

Well grit is an important part of a pigeons routine and is needed to grind the seeds properly. If this is not achieved, it *could* be a reason you're seeing undigested seeds passed. 

As for possibilities of the red colour in the poop and grit, it's unlikely in your case and it depends on the grit. It would seem that your bird isn't eating much or any grit. In extreme grit eating birds and depending on the grit, it will be reflected in their feces. Red cross grit ingestion in excess could result in reddish colouring droppings and the same with oyster shell grit, except then the poops have a more chalky white look.


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## SueC (Jun 9, 2005)

If Beanie is not taking the grit on her own, I'm really at a loss on how to entice her to do so. 

How do feral birds get their grit? Being a feral before ending up with me, I guess she does not know the value of those little red pieces being offered to her in a bowl. 

Meanwhile, I'll break the mung beans into smaller pieces to aid her digestion. Hope this helps.

Any input on her digestive problem is much appreciated!

Suzanna


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Suzanna, 

I'm not saying for sure that Beanie's lack of grit intake is what is causing this, it's just a possibility. 

Just make sure she has full access to various grits such as red granite, oyster shell and any other type you can find. The trace minerals are invaluable to the bird as well as the material needed to grind the seeds properly to be digested. 

Make sure that the grits you supply her with is of decent size...at least the size of a hulled sunflower seed but with varying shapes. The grit for small caged birds is not good enough for pigeons.

Please don't be afraid to practise some kind of "tough love" on her....she really needs a more balanced diet so, hold off on the mung beans for a day or two, give her a REAL pigeon mix and with hunger she will eat. The longer you prolong her learning, the harder it will be for her to learn diversity down the road. The same with the grit, when she's more hungry, she will likely peck at the grit to fill her stomach as well.

I wish you the best and good luck


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## SueC (Jun 9, 2005)

Thanks Brad for the well-wishes.

Hmm .... time to shower her with some 'tough love' over the weekend. Let's hope that she accept such 'love'.

Cheers,
Suzanna


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

I got in this interesting thread at a rather later time. "How do feral pigeons get their grit?" was a good question. From my obervations and "pigeon watching",I have noticed that earlier in the Spring,our local pigeons picked at left over sand that the city had left from sand spread during the winter months. The neighborhood streets are clean now, and I see them picking at sidewalks, lots, and even roof tops. Many of the roofs tiles are coated with a grit like covering. In a city setting I am sure there is not a want for grit. It is out there and they seem to know where to get it. However when they are situated in a loft or kept as a pet, of course they do depend on us to provide them with this important source.


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## SueC (Jun 9, 2005)

I was thinking of the same topic over lunch just now. 

Now that she can stand and walk abit, although not that steadily, I'm seriously thinking of getting Beanie out to the compound/park or the place where the other pigeons are hanging out, to let her pick her own grit. But this will run the risk of getting parasites again. Must say this risk is worthwhile taking if it helps to improve her digestive system.

Suzanna


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Hi Suzanna, some points for you to ponder though, not only would you have the possible parasite problem, but your pigeon may decide for itself that it would rather be (or think it does) with its "own kind" and you may risk loosing him for a time or maybe even for good? 

Grit is available for sale even at the local PET-CO or pet store similar to it. The one locally here offers the smaller grit and the larger variety with the oyster shell mix, both made by KAYTEE.Just make available a small amount in a seperate feeding dish (it's recommeded) and they usually know just how much to eat. Pigeons may have a tendency to overdo it and of course as Phil says, "it could affect their poos"  .


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

*Bad dream*

I was out spending some quality time outdoors in the woods with nature and I just thought of something horrible!!!!!  

I ran indoors as quickly as I could,birds flying, squirrels scampering out of my hasty,zig~zag path of trees, to get back to my PC to share a terrible thought that crossed my mind while out in the heat.

I was visualizing in my mind, a flock of pigeons just up the way from me that usually congregate in the parking lot of my local Bag'nSave grocery. In my mind there were also some pigeons that walked over to the ajoining sidewalk, which is also part of their walking/scavenging route. 

And then,(still in my mind now) an employee from the grocery store walked towards the pigeons on the sidewalk, and reached for a hose that was attached to a cynider stainless steel tank which he had strapped to his back. At a press of a lever, he begins aimimg a jet stream to the cracks of the sidewalk, obviously targeting the wild grass and weed that are growing from the dividing sections of the sidewalk .(poison weed killer!)

The poor unsuspecting pigeons make room for the man, but soon start making their way back after the man sprayng moves on around the store. 

Maybe that is me just over-reacting, I don't know. But what if I am right? It was a horible" day dream."Buy some grit.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

hi Victor, 

Yes, not a pleasant thought and it's quite possible. If I were Suzanna, I wouldn't chance the pigeon foraging in unknown territory and lawns. There is the possibility of pesticides and of course parasites.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

It is a terrible thing to think, but we have to be realistic.

I have seen some small wild flocks around town here for months, and all of a sudden they are gone, I know they didn't just up and leave as they were being fed. How are feral pigeons supposed to trust anyone anymore...some people go out of there way to feed them, and others poisen them with corn laced in avitrol.

If you let your pigeons out you have to be so careful, if they don't come straight home, as everyone is now using pesticides on their lawns and the very dirt they dig in for minerals and microminerals is laced with poisons, and mercury toxicity and more.

Treesa


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

We have been really concerned about the pigeon population for the last two summers. Usually, we average about 40 per summer that we pick up under one particular bridge. Last summer we only had about 10-12 and this summer, so far, about 4. There are some adults at the bridge and just yesterday saw two dead babies in the street. We try to check the bridge about 2 x day but don't find any. The area is becoming more populated with townhouses, condos, restaurants, etc. being built and there is more "foot traffic" under the bridge so maybe the pigeons have found someplace else.. Our other worry is that the area we usually release our pigeons is also pretty barren of birds. Maybe this is just a cycle that is going on. I just hope and pray someone is not poisoning them. This is an area where we have picked up several with acute lead poisoning and I have never been able to figure out why. We have gotten most of our pigeons this summer from vets and private citizens. 

It is very worrisome.


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## SueC (Jun 9, 2005)

vdog505 said:


> Hi Suzanna, some points for you to ponder though, not only would you have the possible parasite problem, but your pigeon may decide for itself that it would rather be (or think it does) with its "own kind" and you may risk loosing him for a time or maybe even for good?
> 
> Grit is available for sale even at the local PET-CO or pet store similar to it. The one locally here offers the smaller grit and the larger variety with the oyster shell mix, both made by KAYTEE.Just make available a small amount in a seperate feeding dish (it's recommeded) and they usually know just how much to eat. Pigeons may have a tendency to overdo it and of course as Phil says, "it could affect their poos"  .


Hi vdog, grit is being offered to Beanie but I don't think she's consuming any as whatever that's in the bowl seems untouched. I guess she was a feral bird and they don't get red cross girt outside. 

She's unlikely to be able to return to her own kind, at least for the time being. She's unable to fly or even walk properly now.

Thanks for highlighting the problem of pesticide. The town council people here don't spray pesticide on the grass, instead they either shoot them or add poison to the food or set up traps to trap the birds. Meanwhile I'm still having reservations about getting Beanie to the compound below. Maybe I should scatter some red cross grit at the compound so that she could pick up some while she's there. Hmm...

Suzanna


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

*On Grit*

Hi Suzanna, 
At first it was a problem for my Tooter as well. He would not touch the grit when it was provided in a different container(as it is recommended), soooo, I bent the "guidelines" a wee bit and would mix just a couple of finger pinches in his food mix, and after many weeks, I set it on the side and began noticing he would eat seeds, and then go to the side that had grit. By the way , he started on theKaytee Hi-Cal fine grit and now he is offered the larger granite-oyster shell grit.He seems to do fine on alternating from time to time, so that is what I have been doing.His grit product is now in a seperate dish and he does well. Remember serve in moderation and keep an eye on the poos.

Yesterday, as he was making sure I was cleaning his quarters properly, he ran down my shoulder when I began opening the larger variety grit container and literally dives in and consumes quickly a couple of the large grit stones.BAD TOOTER, BAD!!


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## SueC (Jun 9, 2005)

How I wish Beanie could be as adaptable as Tooty!

Never mind, perhaps she will know the value of those little red pieces one day. They would know what is good around them, don't they?


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

In general yes they do. That is where we have to make sure harm does not get in their way ESPECIALLY when they are foreging in someones elses "backyard".


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## SueC (Jun 9, 2005)

*Beanie taking grit! Hooray!*

Yeap, Beanie has finally realised the value of those little red pieces this evening!

Her morale improved quite alot over the weekend. When I saw her pecking at the wooden slab I got for her and 'playing' with the wooden clothes peg which was lying on the floor, I was very happy!  

I was doing some feral pigeon watching yesterday and saw that they seem to be picking something on the concrete floor. The pieces are so small that I really can't see what they are eating. Nevertheless, this gave me the idea that Beanie is not taking the grit that's being offered because the pieces are too big - not some thing she was used to. Hence I pounded them into tiny bits, scatter on the floor during her 'time out' and wow, she's picking on them - just like the feral birds outside! Looks like she is enjoying the exercise tremendously! She was hobbling around and trying to check if she misses any bit.

How much of grit should she get daily? Cannot overdose on grit, right?

This is one hurdle over. Now I'm hopping that her legs will continue to improve.

Suzanna


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

SueC
How much of grit should she get daily? Cannot overdose on grit said:


> Glad to hear she is enjoying the tiny grit pieces.
> 
> Now that Beanie is able to pick up the grit, she will decide how much she needs. She may at first eat a lot to make up for lost time, but I haven't seen a bird overdose on it, yet.
> 
> Treesa


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

All right Beanie! Good Pigeon! Suzanna, I am happy to see that your little one is taking care of business with the grit. Great!


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## SueC (Jun 9, 2005)

Yup, she made my day when I see her picking on the pieces!

As with all my other pets, I derive great joy when I see them eating well, moving well, sleeping well and pooping well. I hope Beanie will give me all these WWWWs in time to come.

Suzanna


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Suzanna,

I am so glad to hear things are going well...!



Phil
las vegas


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## SueC (Jun 9, 2005)

*Things becoming better!*

I'm very pleased to announce that in addition to her favourite mung beans, Beanie is taking the pigeon mix on her own this evening. I scattered the beans and the mix on the floor together with some grit and she hobbled round, picking on them. 

So, I guess for some feral birds, they prefer to pick up their food from the floor - the way they were used to all the time. I'm so stupid - I should have thought of this sooner, instead of serving her food in a bowl all this while! Never mind, lesson learned!  

Meanwhile, thanks to all of you for all your advices on how to take care of this fussy pigeon.

Hi Phil - at long last, I can do away with the seed-popping and soups. Beanie can now get the necessary nutrients on her own. Hooray!  

Suzanna


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Congratulations Beanie, for eating solo...and to Suzanna for all her hard work and perseverence that paid off!  

I'm so glad that Beanie is "flying" solo, (eating on his own) 

Now you can relax a bit, sit back, and enjoy this bird's newly found independence. 

Treesa


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## SueC (Jun 9, 2005)

Seems like I can't relax even though Beanie is eating the proper stuff now. 

Problem is her poop - just found some undigested beans in her poop this a.m., although she's been taking probiotics, vitamins, etc. There's also quite alot of red stuff in her droppings which I sure it is grit. Her digestive system is really not very well. Is there anything that I can do for her?

Meanwhile, she's really taking alot of grit and seems to be enjoying them.

Suzanna


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Does any of the poop look digested? Have you been able to purchase any of the pigeon seeds as recommended? Does she eat any barley, wheat, oats, corn, brown unmilled rice, green peas, vetch, maple peas, seeds like safflower, hemp.

These seeds, legumes, and grains, are highly absorbable and more easily digested for pigeons. I would try to get her on a more varied diet of these. That may clear up the problem. Since you are finding the undigested mung beans, I would discontinue giving those, but you can include them later, with the varied seed, grains and legumes.

Continue the digestive enzymes also, you can put powdered multidopholis in her drinking water, so she access to it all day. I found out if you stir it long enough, it will mix with the water.

You can also give her a drop of colloidal silver, if you can find it (the Sovereign Silver is the best)just in case of infection, and it certainly doesn't harm anything.

Pigeons usually know when they need grit, I would continue to let her pick away at it, as long as her diet is changed.

I know that more people on that side of the world are getting into racing pigeons, and I'm wondering if you can find a pigeon enthusiast in your area who can help get you access to a good pigeon mix....just a thought..

Treesa


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## SueC (Jun 9, 2005)

Hi Treesa,

Thanks for your reply.

The bulk of her poop are digested food. I'm not sure if the undigested beans were passed out because she ate too much of them.

Pigeons are not popular pets here and the pigeon mixes sold only give a limited variety of seeds. I will be heading to the organic store to purchase some of the stuff you mentioned and hope to whip up a more varied mix for Beanie.

Can I add Collodial Silver into her water which also contains probiotics? I've tried coating her seeds with probiotics using olive oil but she don't seem to like them very much. 

On a brighter note, the homeopathic remedy is working well. Her wings are very much stronger and she's moving alot more with her good leg. I guess her left leg is doomed as she don't seem to be using that.

Suzanna


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

SueC said:


> Hi Treesa,
> 
> Thanks for your reply.
> 
> ...


You can give her a drop of colloidal silver down the throat, each day. I would not mix with the probiotics. 

Just keep up the good work as all your care has paid off so far, let's just wait and see about the leg. Is she still on the Belladonna?

Treesa


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## SueC (Jun 9, 2005)

Yes, she's still on Belladanna but I'm going to take her off after this week.

BTW, is there any homeopathic remedy that can help with the digestive system?

Suzanna


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

SueC said:


> Yes, she's still on Belladanna but I'm going to take her off after this week.
> 
> BTW, is there any homeopathic remedy that can help with the digestive system?
> 
> Suzanna


I have been using the homeopathic, Nux Vomica to straighten tummy troubles, like upset stomach, and it also gives them an appetite.

I think the more varied diet will clear up problems with the digestion.

Treesa


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## SueC (Jun 9, 2005)

*Update on Beanie*

Dear All,

Beanie wants to say "hi!" ...










Just after wing flapping ....










Am very happy that she is now taking a variety of seeds - pigeon mix, barley, beans, sunflower seeds, seeds from my hamster mix, raw wheat germ and even pasta and eggs. Eggs and pasta are only treats for her. Her main diet is still seeds. And of course, the red cross grit which she enjoy pecking at every now and then.

Her poop is very nice - no more undigested seeds. Her feathers are growing too - even the flight feathers that were ripped away the last time. ACtually I was surprised because the vet said that these feathers will not likely to grow again due to her nerve damage. Am pleased that the vet is wrong in this case.

Added a few drops of ACV into her water today. She don't like the taste and only sipped once. Perhaps I'll reduce the amount of ACV the next time but I'm not sure if the small amount is benefiting her in any way.

Beanie enjoys sunlight and always preen herself during her sunbath. However she's not very mobile - guess her legs are still weak. Usually I would scatter her food all over so as to make her exercise her legs when she look for her food. However once she has her fill, she'll stand around quietly, observing all around her. Sometimes, I catch her dozing off too.

Well, I want to thank everyone for your valuable advices that help Beanie to come this far.

Thanks!
Suzanna


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

SueC said:


> ...However once she has her fill, she'll stand around quietly, observing all around her.


Hi Suzanna, 

I noticed that, too. It's almost like, having eaten their fill, they meditate for a while before getting on with their activities. 

It's wonderful that some of her flight feathers are growing in! You seem to be taking very good care of this bird.

Regarding the ACV, I noticed if you make it very dilute, it's a bit like apple cider and they don't object. Over time, you could add a bit more as they get used to the taste.


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