# How much to feed an adult?



## Eileen (Aug 17, 2002)

One of my friends found a pigeon in her neighbor's yard. It is fully grown, but extremely thin (close to emaciated), also weak.

She is tube feeding him (she's experienced with it, so that's not a problem),giving him 6cc four times a day. He is picking at seeds, but he is SO thin that I don't feel he's eating enough to get him back in front of the eight-ball, I think he still needs to be supplemented.

How much would you guys suggest she feed him? Do you think 24cc's a day is enough?
Thanks for any input you may have.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Hello Eileen,
Many thanks to your friend for caring for this sweetie.
How long ago did she find this pigeon?

First & foremost I would get him on heat (heating pad,low setting). Once the bird is warmed, begin fluids. Once he is hydrated, begin food.

Please have your friend check the pijjie's mouth for canker. The mouth should be nice & pink, clear of obstruction. Canker will resemble a 'yellowish, cottage cheese' appearing substance & could most certainly be a factor as to why he is unable to eat, therefore causing him to starve.

Please keep us posted on how things are coming along.
Cindy



[This message has been edited by AZWhitefeather (edited February 02, 2004).]


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

Hello, 

Hope the pidge feels better soon..

I would say 24cc is good in one sitting, My avian vet taught me how to tube feed and he filled two 10cc syringes and did one then the other, so my full grown pijjie got 20 cc in one sitting, I believe he said to feed the 20-24cc twice a day or so.. 

Hope that helps!
Mary


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

If it is a supplementary feed then 24 cc is probably enough. However she should keep an eye on what is in the crop already and make certain he isn't overfilled at a sitting.

I think I remember Helen saying 30cc twice a day was enough for adult maintenance, but three of those feeds would be needed to put on weight.

When I have had to build up thin pigeons I have added fattening foods like sunflower seeds and the occasional peanut or two.

Cynthia


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## Eileen (Aug 17, 2002)

Thanks guys. She's a vet so she knows what she is doing, the throat is clean, no canker seen. I just thought he'd need a little more than what she was feeding him, I'll tell her what you guys said.
She has a pet pigeon & has rehab experience, and loves pigeons.
I will let you know how the little pijjie makes out, & thanks!

[This message has been edited by Eileen (edited February 07, 2004).]


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

What a smart bird! Touching down at a veterinarian that likes pigeons enough to have one!

------------------
Terri B


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## EarthaPidge (Feb 5, 2004)

Greetings! I am new to this list thanks to Eileen for introducing me to this underground world of pigeon lovers. I'm a new vet in NYC and have always been involved with helping out pigeons here (and abroad). 

This thread is about my little "Appaloosa Girl" with suspected PMV found in my friend's yard (Trich swab negative). In the past, I have mostly rehabbed pigeons with broken wings that were always eating on their own. This is my first experience with gavage feeding a pigeon although I have had experience gavaging other wild birds. I think at first I was not feeding her enough (only about 24-28cc per day) and am now up to about 40cc on the days I am at work and have been adding a third feeding on my days off. She is still thin, I regret that I don't have a digital scale which would help track her progress, so I have to just go by feeling her keel, etc. (I am in the process of purchasing a good scale now.) She's a petite bird to begin with but I wonder if any of you have any tips to help with weight gain at this point and any thoughts on how long she'll need to be gavaged?

She has been in a heated carrier in isolation since I got her, began showing neurologic signs about a week ago (a few days after taking her in), and is drinking water on her own. I was using Roudebush but have since switched to the neonate handfeeding formula by Harrisons. 

She has attempted to eat seed and pellets, but has been unsuccessful. Her stool is much improved with a much smaller urine component than when I first brought her inside and very nicely formed feces with normal appearing urates. The extent of her neuro signs are head tremors as well as being easily startled. She has a great spirit and is quite vocal with her protests at feeding time. She has a wonderful spirit. I am willing to go the full mile with this little one (even if it takes months) with the hope of releasing her one day. I appreciate any advice any of you can offer to help. You all sound like such compassionate and knowledgeable people, I feel privileged to have found this forum.

Thanks again, Laura

p.s. Eartha is my companion pigeon that I rescued from a dog fighting ring (she was being used as bait) in the West Indies and nursed back to health a year and a half ago.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Welcome Laura, Eartha, and Appaloosa! It's very nice to have you join us here.

Eartha .. you are a very lucky bird to have been saved from such an awful fate! 

Laura, if Appaloosa does have PMV, you are most likely in for a lengthy period of recovery (2-6 months). Many PMV birds recover well but can have a relapse of the neuro symptoms at a later time. This factor makes them poor candidates for release. I, personally, have several permanent pigeons that are PMV survivors and they do quite well.

You will find that the bird will do well with deep unspillable bowls for food and water that are kept full. Once the neuro symptoms are full blown, they have to sort of scoop up food and water as they can no longer really control their aim. It is usually also necessary to supplement with hand or tube feeding.

Stress of any type tends to worsen the neuro symptoms, so a calm and quiet environment is beneficial to recovery.

Again welcome, and bless you for being a vet that will care for pigeons! I am very fortunate that my beloved vet never turns away any needy bird or animal.

Terry


[This message has been edited by TAWhatley (edited February 07, 2004).]


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## Eileen (Aug 17, 2002)

Terry, have you ever tried using Vitamin B-complex for neuro symptoms? I work at a wildlife hospital, and if we get in a neurological patient who cannot handle steroids, we use B-plex and have had some success with that.
Just wondering if anyone has had any experience with that.


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Hi Laura, and welcome.
Glad to have someone more experienced than I am here as I have been overwhelmed at times. I am in the UK and have been a rehabber since - well 1979! I am what is termed an avian vet nurse here but deal only with wildlife.
Regarding the pigeon, if this is an adult and the digestive system is working normally she can take 40mls, (ccs) TID. If the nutritient content is high this will enable her to put weight on. PMV victims can take a long time to recover, anything up to two years, although the worst of the symptoms have usually subsided after about 8 weeks and it doesn't take long for them to start self feeding. They learn the knack of sweeping the head round, opening the beak and scooping up. There is some debate as to how long a patient is contaigious for and quarantine is recommended.
I have found a course of Amoxy and clavulanic acid has been very helpful in keeping secondary infections at bay - we usually treat using 2.5% at up to 50mgs per kilo BID IM. May be worth a thought.
I have found PMV victims very easy to nurse and none have died.
Good luck, and pleased to meet you.
Helen


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Eileen,

No, I haven't tried the Vit B for neuro, but I will keep that in mind. Thank you very much for the tip!

Terry


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Laura, and welcome! One thing we have prayed for here is a vet that likes pigeons.

I took in a pigeon last Saturday that had just a slight head tremor and difficulty picking up food. Her symptoms have become very much worse over the week and her head is upside down most of the time, when I place her in the cage after picking her up she falls over and has trouble righting herself. In my experience this is about as bad as the nervous symptoms can get.

I was a bit worried about whether she was still picking up food because her poops had decreased and I couldn't feel anything in her crop, so I packed her seed into a tight dish and topped it with peanuts, then I sat very quietly until she thought I wasn't there...believe me, those peanuts went down her little throat very quickly!

I have always read that pigeons with PMV have very wet poops with a worm of solid in the middle, but have not seen this in any of the ones I have nursed. My current pigeon's poops are very healthy.

I bought some Conium Mac (homeopathic remedy) and will start it today because until now she has been on Baytril. If it makes a significant difference I will post about its effects.


Cynthia


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## e0emouse (Jun 30, 2002)

One thing that we see a lot in wildlife (especially pigeons) here in Virginia is neurological parasites. They are quickly dispatched with an injection of ivermectin. Any neuro damage done is a problem, but prevents worsening of symptoms. If they are healthy enough, I try to give ivermectin to most pigeons at least once.

Kimberly


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I am not sure that I know what neurological parasites are, or whether we get them in the UK...is it likely?

Cynthia


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## Marian (Feb 17, 2001)

Hi Laura and welcome! (And thanks to Eileen)

One of my current rehab pijjies is an emaciated youngster who should be twice the weight that he is. He is getting Mac Milk which has all the daily nutrients pigeons need. It is high in protein and fat so they do very well on it. I think Terry has posted it to somewhere on this site.

One small drawback is that it takes some minutes to make as it is a full recipe. But it's state of the art tubing food.

Even with this, I find that tube fed youngsters still don't get to the weights that parent-fed babies achieve (little beachballs). 

When I've had a bird with neuro problems, I also hold them steady while they pick at their food, learning how to compensate for their disability and target the food. I use Harrison's adult fine, then gradually move to grains. My resident pigeons still get some Harrisons along with their grains. 

I think that if they are assisted by holding them steady to eat, they seem to develop the motor skills to self-feed sooner than if left on their own to eat. 

I also give two Ivermectin doses, day one and day l4-18. It sometimes clears up neuro symptoms caused by internal parasites.

It's a very nice surprise to have a vet join the group. Group members are always ready to answer any SOS or other misfortune, and work as a team to help.

It sounds like you have some commando in you, like many other members who brave all odds against them to rescue birds. Can you write a little more about how you managed to save Eartha?

Best,
Marian


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

For any who are interested, I just bumped up a thread that contains the MacMilk Diet and instructions .. See "Eggs Hatching .. We're Not Ready".

Terry


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hello Eileen,

Glad to hear about the B complex for the neurological problems, can you use it in the form of Brewers Yeast in the baby bird formula?

Treesa


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## Guest (Feb 9, 2004)

Hi, Eileen and EarthaPidge

Laura - It's great to find out about a new pigeon vet here in NYC. We have only a few doctors and rehabbers we can trust if we bring a pigeon to them. 

I think i better speak for all of us locals and be a little too forward: Please tell us where your practice is.

And, if you would like to work with New York City people to help pigeons, please get in touch with Pigeon People, the local group. We're working on problems like people hunting pigeons and official harassment of feeders. Mainly, we want to show people how lovable, fun, and harmless pijjies are, which is what happens on this site every day. [email protected]

Al


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## EarthaPidge (Feb 5, 2004)

Hi everyone,

Many thanks for all the advice so far. My little Appaloosa Girl is doing about the same. She is accepting more formula now (about 60cc perday). I am still concerned that this isn't enough. I should be able to weigh her soon. Does anyone have the breakdown percentages of fats, calories, etc. of the MacMilk formula? I would like to compare this to my current formula and make any changes as necessary. 

Her neuro signs have not worsened, but she is still not eating on her own. I recently changed her formula to another brand, and she began defecating and urinating less, along with experiencing what I think might have been a bit of a mild crop stasis, so I have since switched back to the Roudybush formula III which seems to agree more with her GI system. 

At this stage of her rehab, how much "physical therapy" do you all do as far as wing flapping, etc. goes? I'm not suggesting letting her fly around, but just holding her so she can flap her wings and get some exercise. She is currently living in a cat carrier next to a very warm radiator in my bathroom. It is very very quiet in there, and she is not bothered by any of my other animals. I don't want her muscles to atrophy throughout this period, so wondered how you handle this sort of thing. In a week or so I thought I would move her to a larger dog crate if you think that would be a good idea.

In answer to the question about rescuing Eartha, let's just say she cost me a small fortune to get her here! A friend found out about her and shortly thereafter I "borrowed" her and brought her to a local vet for euthanasia--she was in horrible shape, scalped head (skull exposed), wings clipped to almost nothing, no tail feathers, infested with lice and hypoboscid flies. The vet told me to give her a chance and I did, and well, the rest is history...she survived and when I made plans to return home, I couldn't leave her behind. She has no feathers on her head and a slightly deformed eyelid, so I didn't think she was releasable. At this point, I can't imagine living without the background music of the sweet sounds she makes all day long. 

In response to the question about where I am practicing, I am currently working at an all cat/rabbit/small mammal practice on Long Island, but will eventually be doing housecalls in NYC. I want to learn all there is to learn about keeping pigeons healthy, so I am very grateful for the collective wisdom on this forum. Can anyone recommend any specific reference books I should purchase?

Thanks again for all of your support!

Laura


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Hi Laura
Glad to hear she's doing well. 60ccs a day isn't bad. She will survive on that although more would be better.
I wouldn't worry too much about muscle atrophy at the moment. Her intake is not quite enough so the less exercise she takes the better for the moment. If this is PMV then she will be self feeding long before she is fully recovered to fly again so she will have plenty of time to build those muscles up once her intake is normal and she can afford to use those reserves.
You did well with Eartha! As for those hippoboscid flies - well they are about the only thing I have a real aversion to - but then I have had one of those crawling round under my clothes and the itching is the most intense sensation I have ever known, worse than sarcoptic mange!


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Laura,

It takes a long time for the nervous symptoms to subside, and they don't excercise much when they are affected. Mine is in a big cage, but doesn't move.

The very best reference source for pigeon health is Nooti! Believe me, she knows more than any book could tell you and works very closely with her own vet who coincidentally is another Laura.

Does your vet's practice treat pigeons? We are really anxious to build up a database of vets that accept feral pigeons as patients, so many of them turn us away even when we explain that we want them treated as a normal pet. I am in the UK, have been using the same surgery for 32 years, they know that I am a good reliable customer but they won't treat my ferals. I have had to send the ones with string injuries to Nooti on the other side of the country because I can't find a vet I can trust with my beloved pigeons.

So if your practice accepts pigeons as patients it would be great if you could e-mail Al with details of how to contact you so that we can refer members when they ask.

Cynthia


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Thanks Cynthia
That's nice of you. Just checking in before I set to work. I have had a busy day and due to release a badger tonight. Then I sat down to read and reply to emails when the phone rang. It was Withy Grove vets and they said, "Have you remembered you are due to give us a talk tomorrow on Emergency First Aid for Wildlife?" Of course I'd forgotten, but couldn't tell them that!
So I assured them I'd be there and am now forgetting emails and posts and burying myself in computer and paperwork to produce a checklist booklet in time for 12 noon tomorrow!
Bye for now!


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## EarthaPidge (Feb 5, 2004)

Thanks Nooti and Cynthia! Do you have a simple formula to calculate #cc's per 100g bodyweight or do you just calculate kcal needed and divide it into feedings the good old fashioned way? I will weigh her soon, and then you might be able to give me a better idea of an appropriate feeding schedule. I might bring her to work with me tomorrow so I can make sure she continues to receive several feedings per day. The travelling won't be the greatest for her, but I will be away for about 14+ hours and I don't want her to suffer any setbacks at this point. 20cc seems a lot for her because she is such a small pigeon, but perhaps 4 feedings of 20cc might be better for her?

I feel really awful and negligent that I don't have a scale to track her progress. Thanks for your advice re: physical therapy. You are right to advise that she needs all the calories for healing rather than muscle mass at this point. I will move her to a larger carrier soon. It is difficult to keep her quarantened in my apt because it is not very large, so my options for more space for her are not great. I'm sure you all have had PMV suspects in your houses too, along with your residents pijjies so have dealt with this issue before.

The practice where I work does not officially see avian patients, but my boss knows that I am interested in pigeons. We see a few every now and then for euthanasia, but rarely for diagnosis and treatment. At some point I will be available for pigeon housecalls and will be happy to see ferals and pets. Just keep the hippoboscids off of me! They are truly disgusting little flies. (sorry for my poor spelling before!)

Thanks again and I'll keep you updated.
Laura


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Hi Laura
I bet you won't believe this but the capacity of a pigeon is truly spectacular. An adult pigeon's crop can accomodate 60mls (cc's) in one sitting! Although that is stretching it a bit and not recommended. If I have to force feed a pigeon I give 40mls TID. They can take this quite comfortably but most people, especially professionals are shocked when they first learn this. 
I give this amount to baby pigeons I am hand rearing, from 21 days old onwards. If you fit a small tube on the end of a 20ml syringe and ease the tube into the crop it only takes seconds to fill with 40ml. At the other end a pigeon can safely be given 20 -25mls Hartmann's fluids by IP injection. Like I said, their capacity is amazing.
As for what I feed them, well here is an email I've cut and pasted about making a formula.
I don't actually use a formula. I make my own using the poultry rearing crumbs. It sounds like a lot of messing about, but it isn't really and the diet works for me. 
I soak the chick crumbs in hot, not boiling water for 30 minutes. Then I blend in a liquidiser. Then I run the mixture through a sieve to take out those annoying big bits which won't go through the nozzle of the syringe, and then I pour into a jug for refrigeration. At feeding time I fill the number of 20ml syringes needed and place in a cup in boiling water for 90 seconds, then leave on a plate for a minute or two and it is just the right temperature for tubing. I have used this 'formula' with great success up to 48 hours old in the fridge. I've never used it past that time length though. 
For hand rearing I have had great success using this method and adding Avimix by Vetark, an avian vit mix every 3 or 4 days. If hand rearing from day one I add Panzym, active enzyme powder for the first 5 days, until their digestive systems are mature enough to produce their own.
Everyone has their own feeding formula method and as pigeons are omniverous and ferals are reared on all sorts of rubbish, most home made formulas seem to be successful.
Just found a wealth of wildlife first aid advice I typed up ages ago and saved on computer so tonight's work seems a little easier now.


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## EarthaPidge (Feb 5, 2004)

60cc!!! Wow! Even in a smallish sized pigeon? Ok, so I am feeling braver now and will attempt to feed her 36cc in her next feeding. I can't quite bring myself to the full 60cc just yet. ;-) My goal will be the 40cc TID. Thank you so much, Nooti, for your tips on preparing the formula and heating it, etc. Just the sort of thing that is really helpful right now. I really want the best for this little one and hope that I haven't already done her a disservice with my inexperience regarding her nutritional needs at this point. She's stable and seems happy (grunting at me only when picked up) so let's hope for the best.

Appaloosa girl thanks you all!!!


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

"60cc!!! Wow! Even in a smallish sized pigeon?"
Told you you wouldn't believe it!
"My goal will be the 40cc TID."
Laura, that's absolutely perfect! No poorly pidge could ask for more!

Good luck.

[This message has been edited by Nooti (edited February 10, 2004).]


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## EarthaPidge (Feb 5, 2004)

Yay! We did it! Well, not exactly 40cc, but about 35. She regurgitated a 1/2cc or so, so the full 40 may just be too much for her at this point. I'll try to see how close I can come to 35cc TID tomorrow and see how that goes.


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Sounds good Laura. She'll do ok on 35ml TID


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## EarthaPidge (Feb 5, 2004)

Well, it turns out she regurgitated a lot more than I originally had thought. I just couldn't see it on the back of the dark colored carrier until I removed her for her next feeding. So the next two feedings were about 28cc each and she did ok with those. I think 28-30cc may be her limit. I weighed her today and she is 280g. Any thoughts?

-Laura


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

"I weighed her today and she is 280g. Any thoughts?"
She should still be able to take 40mls in one go. Is she definitely a pigeon and not a dove? Doves regurgitate quite easily when you tube feed them. - No, she must be a pigeon if she weighs 280gms and she's emaciated. (Thinking aloud here). Obviously it's a waste of time giving her more if she's going to lose some of it, so probably best to still at around 30ml at each feeding. Just increase the number of feedings. That's a puzzler as regurgitation is not something I've really experienced in pigeons, collared doves yes - they are good at it! 
Have you checked the throat for trichomonas Gallinae? That would cause the reaction.
I got your email, and will reply later today. Have to go to work now.


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## EarthaPidge (Feb 5, 2004)

Yes, this girl's definitely a pigeon! I do know the difference! ;-) I tried to feed her more than the 30cc again and she regurgitated about 3cc. She is very small and weak (in addition to being too thin) so I think her system just can't tolerate higher volumes at this point. I think in time I might be able to gradually work her up to a larger volume, but for now, she is making it clear that enough is enough. Also, as mentioned in one of my earlier posts, she tested negative for trich. No plaques at all in her throat.

I did have some problem with one formula I was using, it seemed to just sit in her crop and I had to rehydrate her crop contents to help it pass. She's now on Exact and doing ok with that. Has anyone else had trouble with certain formulas with these guys? Seems like the more powdery, "pancake batter" consistency types do not agree with her. However, the more grainy, browner looking formulas pass rather well. Thanks.
Laura
p.s. I'm going to a conference tomorrow for a week and Eileen will be watching this little girl for me during that time.


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## EarthaPidge (Feb 5, 2004)

Just to clarify: Regarding trich, I examined a throat swab and it was negative in ADDITION to her not having any plaques present.


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Hi Laura
Yes the fact that she is weak may be causing the regurgitation - I forgot about that, sorry. If you can aim for about 100mls per day she'll get through this. 
Have a good time at the conference. They are always good learning points.
I'm here if your friend needs help.


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## EarthaPidge (Feb 5, 2004)

Thanks so much for all of your support, especially while I'm away. Eileen is a saint for watching this little one for me. I'm very grateful to have her and all of you as my friends.

-Laura


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## EarthaPidge (Feb 5, 2004)

Hi everyone, just wanted to update you all on Appaloosa's progress (or stagnation?). It has been somewhere between 6-7 weeks of tube feedings thus far. Her stool has improved and is much less watery, however 2 weeks ago she began having significant neuro signs. She seems to have reached a plateau with regard to these signs. She is eating about 30cc 2-3 times a day (depending on my work schedule). She is still not self feeding at this point although her head is mostly upright. Her weight has stabilized at about 280-290g. I'm very frustrated and just need to hear from some of you who have dealt with possible PMV pigeons, should I continue? Am I just stressing this bird out? She is very spunky and strikes at me with her wings each time I remove her for her feeding despite soft voices and slow movements. Is it selfish to keep her alive? 

Thanks to you all for your support and advice!
Laura


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Laura,

Those are difficult questions that you are asking, and in the end, only you can decide what is right for the bird. If it were me, I would continue providing the supportive care. I have had perhaps six or seven PMV birds since I became besotted with pigeons, and all survived and reached a reasonable state of normalcy. I did not release any of them for fear of a relapse but all did become capable of eating and drinking on their own. I still have four of these birds having lost the others to unknown causes .. old age for all I know.

Terry


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Laura,

I have no doubts at all about keeping PMV victims alive, they are so eager to live and even though one of mine was handicapped by fits she never lost her feistiness...and you should have seen the expression on her face when she attracted a male admirer! She had a PMV recovery mate for a long time, but he was lured away by another PMV recovery hen who had no after effects!

I have three new PMV patients at the moment and however twisted up they have been by their condition they all feed well. I would suggest that you count out a number of raw peanuts into the cage (5 or 6) and see what happens to them! If she has not eaten peanuts before put one a day in her mouth, and then leave a few to tempt her. None of my rescues have been able to resist this treat.

BTW I also have a juvenile that only weighs as much as Appaloosa! He has an overgrown beak, but his poops show he is eating well. I am worried that he is so thin as there is little for him to fall back on, but he seems healthy otherwise. I will feed him shelled sunflower seeds and hemp seeds, see if he gains some weight that way.

Cynthia


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## EarthaPidge (Feb 5, 2004)

Thanks Terry and Cynthia for your words of support. Sometimes it just seems neverending as the weeks draw on. She made a pretty serious attempt at eating a few times over this past weekend--seed everywhere and I heard her pecking at the floor. I backed off on her feedings and I think my "tough love" approach was a mistake because she lost 15g from her top weight of 306g by the next day. So we're back to feeding as much as she can take. I am going to continue feeding her until I see that she really is consuming all or most that she pecks at. Her head is much less twisted and her stool looks pretty good. She is still easily startled though, as to be expected. DEfinitely not tame, even after so much handling. She double bats me with both wings when I reach for her! She is spunky! Will keep you all updated. Thanks again.

Laura


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## EarthaPidge (Feb 5, 2004)

An update for everyone about Appaloosa Girl. She has gained all of her weight back and teeters around 300g now. She is still not self-feeding -- not pecking at the bowl or ground (i have a couple of options to entice her). However, she is still drinking water on her own though. Her neuro signs seem almost gone. Just tremors a bit when I finish with her feedings. Doesn't even really startle very easily any more. She's preening a lot and now really exercising her wings several times a day. With these guys, do they just start eating one day or do they usually occasionally pick up a seed or two and then really dig in? I know she isn't enjoying the "free handouts" because it does stress her out, but she just doesn't show any interest in eating on her own. I know no one can estimate when this will happen, but I was just curious if I needed to know anything at this stage.

Thanks for any tips to help this little gal!!

Laura


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