# OMG! Bugs in the Food!



## Cricket (Sep 1, 2005)

I buy my pigeon seed at the local Agway. They only sell 50 pd bags. I only have the two pigeons... so naturally, this should last quite awhile. Please someone tell me how long is seed ok to keep around?? Yesterday I discovered little bugs in the seed!  I was getting down to the bottom of the tupperware container... and it did all look kind of dusty. I am now afraid to discover that I have been feeding my boys moldy old seed that sprouted bugs! I feel awful! I picked up fresh food immediatley, but it is another 50 pound bag! How long should I use it before tossing it out? And how do you know when it is going bad???? ugh! And what if any are the damages done to my boyz??? They seem fine... for right now.


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I had the same thing happen to me when purchasing a 50 lb. bag for my birds, when I got to the bottom there were bugs bolweavels) , and I was so upset. I threw it out and got more seed and had them open the bag up and check the bottom to see if it was clean. I gave the birds all a round of prevention and cleansing, garlic....etc...they seem fine though. It might not hurt to de-worm ..if you don't.

The obvious signs that seed has bugs in it, is you can pick up corn and find the bugs have buried there way inside, there is alot of powder in the seed upon opening it, especially on the bottom, or the date on the bag is old. 

I use up more as I have 50 birds, so it isn't a problem for me except during the hot summer. I refuse to feed it to my birds if I find any bugs in it, but the people we buy the seed from use it anyway for their birds,... yuk.  

Seed that sits anywhere, whether it is the manufacturer, warehouse, enroute to the retailer, or feed store, will get bugs in it if allowed to sit for long enough time. It also depends on the temperature and such.

I can only suggest to refrigerate it, in smaller bags, if you will keep it for a while. Before buying it try to find a date on the bag or tag of an experation date that is furthest in future also.


----------



## Jiggs (Apr 1, 2005)

It is gross and I do not reccomend feeding the birds old food but there will always be bugs. They get in everywhere even in your own food. Remember on the ships peope just used to knock the wevils out of the biscuits 

Those type of bugs cannot harm birds or humans as they only eat and feed on grain products!

The worst there is that the feed is old and that might influence the vits etc in food


----------



## pigeonkid1046 (Nov 16, 2005)

The bugs in the feed probally looked like little maggots, about 1/2 cm long. They are little moths. They are harmless to birds. The moths lay they're eggs in the grain before it is picked, bagged, and delivered to your home. Then, the eggs hatch and hence, little maggots looking things. One way to cure this is to get a metal bowl, not big, and drop about 3 or 4 moth balls into the bowl (DO NOT GET IN FEED) and it will drive the bugs out. Some people don't like bugs in their pigeons feed, but once again, it is completely harmless.


----------



## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

I bought pigeon mix from a local "feed barn" store and found bugs. However, I buy a small amount since there's only Mr. Squeaks.

Took a small amount of seeds, put them in a metal colander (strainer) and shook and shook and shook. Then put seeds in freezer and/or refrig. When I needed more, I repeated the process. Of course, the bugs, etc. were no longer alive...

Have also bought the bagged seeds from Petco (Paloma/Dove) mix. Did not notice any bugs but store in refrig...just in case...

Unless one has a big freezer, I realize that storing 50 lbs., etc. for MANY birds would be a problem!  

So far, Mr. Squeaks is well and thriving...if good poops and his cat chasing activities are any indication.


----------



## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

We go through so many seeds that we don't usually have this problem.

We buy 25 lb bags of Zupreem pellets (for cockatiels) that our pigeons just love and they get it as a treat in the afternoon, every day. We put this up in gallon sized Ziplock bags and stick them in the freezer and have had no problems.

I don't think the bugs will hurt them. When we rehabbed songbirds we had a little finch who would sit on the side of a container of corn and pick the weavils out to eat. We didn't feed this corn to the pigeons or doves but kept this small container just for the finch while we had him.


----------



## Jiggs (Apr 1, 2005)

With most grain bugs freezing is not really the answer as all it does is retard the growth of the eggs.

The only real thing you can do is buy fresh food and let them eat it all before you buy more

Plenty birds live on insects


----------



## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Jiggs said:


> With most grain bugs freezing is not really the answer as all it does is retard the growth of the eggs.
> 
> The only real thing you can do is buy fresh food and let them eat it all before you buy more
> 
> Plenty birds live on insects


Well, so far, or so it seemed. the eggs were permanently retarded! LOL And, no sign of anything alive with my second "shake, shake, shake..."

I will continue with the Kaytee food and may occasionally get pigeon mix from the feed store...

Maggie: Squeaks gets a few hemp, safflowers and Song Bird Mix for his afternoon "delight."


----------



## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

Jiggs, 

I have read that the smart people on board ship did not knock the weevils out of their sea-biscuits, but ate them instead. The bugs contained the vitamins taken from the food they had eaten, and a sailor on a long voyage wanted to avoid scurvy. This I remember reading, unless my memory fails me, in James Clavell's book _Shogun_, taking place on board an English ship shipwrecked off te coast of Japan in the early 16th century. Actuallly, it was a wormy apple the central character of the book was eating, so maybe you are correct anyway about the sea-biscuit. I am not an expert on long sailing ship voyages. 

If bugs don't want to eat the seeds and the food, maybe we should think twice before eating it. Japanese WWII soldiers in the south Pacific island jungles ate what the monkeys ate. I eat what my wife cooks, then tells me to eat (occasionally).


----------



## Cricket (Sep 1, 2005)

My dad has an old war story of being in the fields where the grasshoppers would jump right into their bowls of grub and time was an issue, so those grasshoppers got eaten along with breakfast! Ick. I was more worried about the dust and if it were mold? would this harm my birds? The new bag of seed is fresh and clean and even smells good. The old seed was not so pleasant to the nose... Thanks all for the advice!


----------



## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Hi Cricket, 



Cricket said:


> My dad has an old war story of being in the fields where the grasshoppers would jump right into their bowls of grub and time was an issue, so those grasshoppers got eaten along with breakfast! Ick.
> 
> *Mmm, extra protein for sure...legs probably tickled as they went down, tho...*
> 
> ...


Larry: I think scurvy was caused by lack of Vitamin C not protein...however, I'm sure those sailors ate whatever they could! Mmmm, are you a picky eater?


----------



## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

All this talk about bugs is making me itch!

With warmer days coming ahead, it would be a good idea to store the seeds indoors in a climate controlled room, or at least a cool place away from sunlight. 

I have a large container for the outdoor squirrels, another for the wild birds, and as fast as we go through them, I still keep them indoors....not the squirrels, the seeds! 

I have never had a problem with wild seds, as we have been feeding the outdoor wildlife long before pigeons came into our lives.

We get the Petco Kaytee Paloma-Dove mix too, and it is always fresh it seems. I strain mine, and place it in a third sealed container as well, marked Pigeons Only.


----------



## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Cricket said:


> My dad has an old war story of being in the fields where the grasshoppers would jump right into their bowls of grub and time was an issue, so those grasshoppers got eaten along with breakfast! Ick. I was more worried about the dust and if it were mold? would this harm my birds? The new bag of seed is fresh and clean and even smells good. The old seed was not so pleasant to the nose... Thanks all for the advice!


Yes Cricket,

That is exactly what I had in mind when I read your first post. You need to smell the product. That is, if you are not a smoker and still have a sense of smell. I had the same experience buying a kilo of peanuts from a dollar store. When I opened them they were rancid. You could smell it right off. Might be OK in small doses for people and pigeons but not for the feeding of youngsters I don't think. If you buy a bag that is musty, moldy or rancid---just return it right away before even taking it home. Nobody will argue with you on that one.

Cameron.


----------



## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

bolweavel bugs are actually brought in and carried by mice and or rats. The only way to prevent these little pests from invading your seed is to package it in airtight containers and put into a freezer for at least 1 week. Any eggs or live bugs will die from the cold and eggs will not hatch. Watch for the little suckers in Dog food as well. These bugs come right in the seed it may not be because you had the seed for a while. They were probably there when you bought the seed. They love flour as well. Hope this helps out a little  Oh yeah almost forgot when these little bugs hatch they look like very small white worms crawling all over.


----------



## Cricket (Sep 1, 2005)

I did not see white larvae looking dudes, just small oval black grey bugs with possible wings?? although I did not see any fly! Did I miss the white stage? and for those of you using the kaytee petco dove blend, is that something I can feed to my pigeons or is that just for the doves?


----------



## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

*


naturegirl said:



bolweavel bugs

Click to expand...

*


naturegirl said:


> ...
> 
> Sorry, guys, but I just CAN'T resist:
> 
> ...


----------



## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

*About the Kaytee Dove ~paloma mix...*

I have used it for two years since "Tooter", and my current pigeons just love it. Of course, I supplement it with corn, split peas, and occasionally sunflower seeds.


----------



## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

The Petco Dove blend is what I feed my Pigeon, she doesn't like the Canidian Peas but eats the rest. I also add dried green peas to it and she loves those. I buy 2 packages of that and keep one on hand. I also put it in the freezer to kill anything that might be in it. Better safe than sorry I always say.


----------



## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

Cute Mr. Squeaks  I like that one!


----------



## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Scurvy*

Mr. Squeaks,

Sorry I wasn't more specific. Wrote the post a bit too quickly. I was referring to scurvy caused by lack of vitamin C (hence the apple). I don't remember the specifics about what I have read about sea-biscuits, only that they could be quite hard. Many years ago a class-mate and room-mate who went on to get a Ph.D. in biochemistry told me not to worry about moldy cheeses, but to avoid mouldy breads.

Am I a picky eater? Yes and no. I have had so many surgeries for nasal polyps (the first of thirteen or fourteen or so when I was about four years old, the most recent a year-and-a-half ago) that I lost my sense of smell in the late 1970s. 

More than you asked for, or want to know: 

Sometimes when I am eating something the taste slowly develops over a number of bites. Sometimes I _think_ that I am tasting something when I am really going on memory, relying more on color and temperature and texture (milk has a different texture compared to water). My wife might say "Did you like the cinnamon and ginger in the dish? I put a lot in," and I will confess I hadn't noticed it. Same with garlic. Sometimes I notice the spices, sometimes not. I love peanut butter, and eat a lot of it, and occasionally I actually can remark on how good it tastes. Sometimes a glass of wine tastes good. Tea usually tastes like warm or hot sugar water (if I use sugar). I don't mind spending money on something I can appreciate, but I go for the cheapest when I can't tell the difference. I like to spend money on good tools (culinary or workshop or graphic and art materials). 

People lacking sense of smell often don't taste much other than what they derive from the tongue receptor taste buds for salty, bitter, sweet, and sour. Since I can't smell, and have to avoid cigarette smoke and other smoke and fumes, I depend on my wife to be my "nose." Some places I avoid on principle: all bars in Germany, and almost all restaurants after a certain hour, since people light up their cigarettes after a meal. Perhaps that goes far to explain why I am starting to consider pigeons among my closest friends of a sort (although they don't hang around for conversation once the food is gone). And since I can't feed street pigeons legally, I have to get my pigeon gossip through our tame pigeon *Wieteke*, who seems more interested in his mate and the egg or eggs they are expecting any day now (she may have laid one today. Can't find out without being rude). 

Back in the late 1970s, in Texas, I cooked off and on for myself. Mexican or Tex-Mex food was so delicious and inexpensive, I cooked mostly for convenience or for variety, or out of boredom from going out for meals. I slowly became aware that hamburger meat, which I sometimes kept for a week or two in the fridge, and which I liked to eat medium rare then, if it were too old it would get slimy, not taste like hamburger, and would have a metallic taste. I now think I survived some serious possible poisonings. My wife's theory about me: weeds are hard to kill. 

I often volunteered my services for family, friends and neighhbors in the cases of stopped-up toilets and sewers, if the accumulation of noxious gases wasn't too severe. I now feel little sympathy for those who continuously and continually feed their toilets an overdose of toilet paper. 

Again, am I a picky eater? I think I can say yes to that. I regard healthy (hell-thy) foods with misgivings. My main requirement: will it fit in my mouth, and can I get it down before the next mealtime. No point in starving while eating as quickly as polite society permits. 

For my pigeons, I try to afford only the healthiest and the best. 

Hurray! Our tame male pigeon *Wieteke* just now went on the nest, replacing the freal female *Mamieke*, and I checked: they have an egg! (Their second. Their first, laid March 6th and sat on for 22 days until March 28th, proved infertile).


----------



## Cricket (Sep 1, 2005)

Congrats on the new egg Larry! I enjoyed reading your post. It is written so well. Sorry about your sense of smell. That can be a good thing when there's a skunk around. I have a client who also has no sense of smell and when he brings his dog in to get groomed, it has often been skunked! He couldn't tell! Wonder what his co-workers think... poor thing. Lucky for you you have a wife with a Nose!! Be grateful for her nose! Someone's got to do the smelling!


----------



## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Cricket said:


> ...I was more worried about the dust and if it were mold? would this harm my birds?...


Just wanted to add a tip from my friends with horses. Good stable management says to discard the dusty crumbs at the bottom of a bag of feed. The concentration of mold spores is much higher and not worth the risk to your animals. Very observant on your part!


----------



## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Someone's got to do the smelling*



> Lucky for you you have a wife with a Nose!! Be grateful for her nose! Someone's got to do the smelling!


Cricket, 
My wife often enough tells me I smell (bad).

She smells in her way, and I in mine.

---------------------

TerriB,

Good point you made about throwing away the stuff at the bottom of the bag. I haven't paid so much attention to this in the past. (I'm the kind of person who tips the bag and lets all the debris -- chocolate powder, crumbs, pulverized bug parts, what have you -- go down the gullet. I always thought, waste not, want not. Hasn't made me any richer, now that I think of it. Good thing I don't have eyes in my mouth!). 

Concerning *spores* and *mold* in the bottom of a bag of feed: I had read once long ago in a _Scientific American_ article answering the question why pottery shards and rocks continuously pop up in fields, which (I paraphrase) was to the effect that small particles tend to fall (downward, because of gravity) into the spaces created when larger particles get shifted about. The smaller particles form a mass, and with further shifting, the larger particles will get pushed upwards on the ramp of smaller particles. 

Spores are so small that they should be everywhere, unless filtered out. (I might be wrong on this). The accumulations at the bottom of a bag are probably not as exposed to the air and as dry as the larger particles above. Feed bag labels usually stipulate store the feed in a cool and dry place. In a warm, moist environment, the whole bag of feed becomes suspect.


----------

