# Please identify Whether this is a carrier pigeon or a homer ?



## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

Its 4 WEEKS OLD......


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

May be a cross of carrier pigeon


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## rackerman (Jul 29, 2009)

sreeshs said:


> May be a cross of carrier pigeon


I agree with sreeshs, but it looks alot like a carrier.


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## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

Thanks bhai...


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

It is built like a carrier, but we'll see when it gets older. If the cere develops very large, then it could very well be a pure (just maybe not the best) carrier. The young ones look a lot like very lanky homers, until they grow out their cere.


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## vintar_boy (Dec 10, 2009)

i think it's carrier x homer 



this is what my 3 1/2weeks old carrier looks like


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## sport14692 (Jan 3, 2011)

No comment


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## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

Thanks guys...
I know every pigeons have some homing ability, but do carrier pigeons have good homing ability,just like homers ?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

can you get a better pic.. it looks like it lives is a dark dirty cave... it is hard to see as he is dark too...


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## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

Another pic...


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

he looks like a carrier IMO....


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## sport14692 (Jan 3, 2011)

Dang that suka got a long neck


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## drifter (Oct 7, 2009)

If it was a cross it probably would have a shorter neck, just my guess.


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## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

Thanks guys for ur inputs


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

grifter said:


> If it was a cross it probably would have a shorter neck, just my guess.


That's what I was thinking.
Quite honestly, I barely see any difference between the young carrier and this supposed "cross".


English Carriers were a big part in creating the homing/racing pigeon we know today. A couple hundred years ago, yes, they could home well. Now, however, they are bred for showing purposes only. It's very, very sad  I would love to have a family of Carriers that could home just as well as my homers. This same fate has also happened to the Dragoon.


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## GEMcC5150 (Oct 24, 2010)

Becky..... Start breeding carriers for there homing skills, you know know how to do it just take time and some work on your part.


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## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

why are carrier pigeons not used in present day races,has anybody tried it ?what if we cross a homer with a carrier pigeon,will we get a superior breed ???


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## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

MaryOfExeter said:


> That's what I was thinking.
> Quite honestly, I barely see any difference between the young carrier and this supposed "cross".
> 
> 
> English Carriers were a big part in creating the homing/racing pigeon we know today. A couple hundred years ago, yes, they could home well. Now, however, they are bred for showing purposes only. It's very, very sad  I would love to have a family of Carriers that could home just as well as my homers. This same fate has also happened to the Dragoon.


its a big loss for pigeon lovers...!!!


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

If you cross homers into carriers and selectively breed, it is very possible. People became too concerned about the looks and not flying them. Plus they had racing pigeons, which are the best at what they do, so everything else was used for shows.


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## dod rennie (Jan 3, 2011)

its got broblems


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

It looks like a carrier.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

boneyrajan.k said:


> Thanks guys...
> I know every pigeons have some homing ability, but do carrier pigeons have good homing ability,just like homers ?


* When the racing pigeon was developed back in the mid 1800 there were 5 or 6 different breeds use to devepole our racer of today one of the birds used was the CARRIER another was the DRAGOON * GEORGE


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## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

I hope people keep on evolving new breeds of homers,by crossing with the old carriers,and other such breeds.......i still think,their may be some qualities hidden in the carrier ,which can be still brought out by cross breeding...!!!


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## Gnuretiree (May 29, 2009)

Do you have pictures of the parents?


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## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

no buddy,if i had that then,there would not have been such a confusion.......!!!
i will keep updating the pics as it grows up....!!!!!


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## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

...................!!!


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

Yep looks like a Carrier, as others have said. Over the next several months it should grow the ceres and get a little more of a build to it.


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## rio3d (Dec 21, 2010)

boneyrajan.k said:


> Thanks guys...
> I know every pigeons have some homing ability, but do carrier pigeons have good homing ability,just like homers ?


a carrier pigeon is a homing pigeon. that's why / how they carried messages.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

A carrier pigeon is not a homing pigeon because a homing pigeon is a hybrid of many different breeds like Dragoon, Smerle, Cumulet, Carrier(?) and rock pigeons.

Having said that the English considered Dragoon as their homing pigeon in the very beginning until they saw the hybrid bird bred by the Belgians (mixing Smerle and Cumulet). The Belgian birds were faster than the English so the English adapted the Belgian birds and added their Dragoon blood because Dragoon seemed stronger, hardier, etc. 

Carrier pigeon didn't become popular because it is a slow flyer. They are quite big birds. Dragoons may be a slow flier as well.


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## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

Do u know,what was that good quality in a carrier,for which it was used to make the present homers ?


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

rio3d said:


> a carrier pigeon is a homing pigeon. that's why / how they carried messages.


Do not get the English Carrier breed confused with "message carriers" and "messenger pigeons", which were homing pigeons  It can cause a lot of confusion. Many people do call the homers that severed in the war and as postal service, carrier pigeons. But the birds we are referring to right now are a breed of their own


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## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

Yeah...there is so much of confusion about this ,even among good breeders !!!


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## rio3d (Dec 21, 2010)

RodSD said:


> A carrier pigeon is not a homing pigeon because a homing pigeon is a hybrid of many different breeds like Dragoon, Smerle, Cumulet, Carrier(?) and rock pigeons.
> 
> Having said that the English considered Dragoon as their homing pigeon in the very beginning until they saw the hybrid bird bred by the Belgians (mixing Smerle and Cumulet). The Belgian birds were faster than the English so the English adapted the Belgian birds and added their Dragoon blood because Dragoon seemed stronger, hardier, etc.
> 
> Carrier pigeon didn't become popular because it is a slow flyer. They are quite big birds. Dragoons may be a slow flier as well.


Ok, but just because they aren't fast doesn't mean they aren't homing pigeons, does it? It may mean they aren't racing pigeons, but all pigeons (from what I've read) are homing pigeons. 

The carrier pigeon was a carrier because of the fact that you could attach a note or something to it, and it will fly home.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrier_pigeon


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## rio3d (Dec 21, 2010)

MaryOfExeter said:


> Do not get the English Carrier breed confused with "message carriers" and "messenger pigeons", which were homing pigeons  It can cause a lot of confusion. Many people do call the homers that severed in the war and as postal service, carrier pigeons. But the birds we are referring to right now are a breed of their own


ok ok ok i got it...
thanks for clearing that up


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

rio3d said:


> Ok, but just because they aren't fast doesn't mean they aren't homing pigeons, does it? It may mean they aren't racing pigeons, but all pigeons (from what I've read) are homing pigeons.
> 
> The carrier pigeon was a carrier because of the fact that you could attach a note or something to it, and it will fly home.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrier_pigeon


We are talking about the English Carrier which is a breed of pigeon. Unfortunately people ended up using the word carrier for a homing pigeon that things get confusing.

All pigeons are not homing pigeons( but all homing pigeons are pigeons). But it is true that homing instinct may occur in almost any birds including any pigeons. Homing pigeons were breed/selected for their homing instinct and speed/endurance. Through selection we developed a breed called a Homing pigeon.


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## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

Thanks friends,for clearing up the confusions !!!


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## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

..........!!!


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Not all pigeons are homing pigeons. They all have the homing instinct, which means they know to go back in their loft to eat and sleep, etc rather than flying away like parrots and other cage birds would. However, very, very few breeds actually have any homing ability at all. Homers/racers are the best at what they do. There are a few other foreign breeds that are bred for homing as well. But the majority of pigeons we breed now are lost unless they can see the loft.
Dragoons and English carriers used to have a considerable amount of homing ability. But since they have been bred exclusively by looks, the performance level has probably dropped pretty low. That is usually what happens when one breeds for looks and doesn't continue to fly the birds to make sure they can still come home. I guess once the homers became so advanced, people were content with just one homing breed, and stopped flying the others.


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## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

Hope,in future we give more importance to the flying than the looks


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## ValencianFigs (Jul 10, 2010)

I think carriers are wonderful looking birds! I could imagine seeing them fly like homers... I bet they would look like geese in the air... lol


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## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

Updating pics....31/01/2011


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

It can be also the cross of a local breed called "Badunge", how is the size of this pigeon compared to your other pigeons ? Badunge are bigger than normal sized pigeons by the end of first month.


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## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

sreeshs said:


> It can be also the cross of a local breed called "Badunge", how is the size of this pigeon compared to your other pigeons ? Badunge are bigger than normal sized pigeons by the end of first month.


The size is normal.....its same as my other homer of the same age !!!


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## dod rennie (Jan 3, 2011)

Its a pity it didnt have a ring on


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

MaryOfExeter said:


> Not all pigeons are homing pigeons. They all have the homing instinct, which means they know to go back in their loft to eat and sleep, etc rather than flying away like parrots and other cage birds would. However, very, very few breeds actually have any homing ability at all. Homers/racers are the best at what they do. There are a few other foreign breeds that are bred for homing as well. But the majority of pigeons we breed now are lost unless they can see the loft.
> Dragoons and English carriers used to have a considerable amount of homing ability. But since they have been bred exclusively by looks, the performance level has probably dropped pretty low. That is usually what happens when one breeds for looks and doesn't continue to fly the birds to make sure they can still come home. I guess once the homers became so advanced, people were content with just one homing breed, and stopped flying the others.


Hi Becky,

I would like to differ somewhat with your point of view here. I believe that carriers and dragoons probably still have homing ability to some degree. It is the _performance_ that differs.

Even within the modern racing homers, the performance differs. Some homers will fly home from hundreds of kilometers away even after years of being prisoners at a new loft, while some young ones get lost on training tosses of less that 50 kilometers. I had a pair of garden variety white fantails that I used to toss at the same range as my homer breeders (just for exercise - about 25 kilometers or so) and they flew home every time. They would sit on the ground or on the car while the homers sped off home, and then taking their own sweet time take off, do a circle or two and then head straight home. It is important to also take into account the _will_ to go home. Some pigeons just don't _want_ to go home, so they won't.

I believe that most other pigeons breeds will have homing ability. Feral pigeons and wild rock pigeons sometimes fly great distances to get to sources of food or water from their roosts, and they know how to return home. This means that homing is a trait that probably runs through all early pigeon varieties, and since there was no reason for breeders to select against it, it probably still lurks in their make-up.

Homers have been selectively bred for years to strengthen their homing ability, strength and stamina, which means that they are definitely superior birds for racing, this does not mean that the Carrier, Dragoon, Barb, or even the pouters or high-fliers would not be able to find their home even when out of sight of the loft. I was recently told that some people even fly their Egyptian Swifts on the short races (200 km or so), right alongside the homers.

I'll try to get a hold of a pair of carriers and dragoons and prove my hypothesis. I like the look of them anyway ;-)

Kind regards,
Rudolph


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## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

Updating pic....19/02/2011


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