# Need lots of help



## kristy (Jun 21, 2002)

I have two problems, one more urgent than the other

We have our second batch of wild pigeon babies on our balcony. The first problem is that they're redoing our balcony, and we're probably going to have to move the babies. But the urgent problem is that the parents are being scared away and there's another bird pecking at the babies' heads!!

What's happening is this big brown pigeon keeps coming into the nest and attacking the babies, who are now bleeding between their eyes and their beak. I've also seen this brown bird chasing the mom and dad away, flying after them.

Right now the parents are back and feeding the babies, but what should I do? I'm thinking of waiting until they get to my balcony to fix it, and then if the babies haven't left by then I'll bring them inside in a cat carrier with a towel in the bottom and feed them... is that a good idea?

For reference sake, these babies were born June 5/6. I also have photos to show the bleeding I saw last night, but not the bleeding from today.


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## kristy (Jun 21, 2002)

I do have photos of their damage now...


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

OH, NO!!!
Try to scare the other pigeon away, he may kill them!
Are the parents taking care of the babys(feeding) or have they abandoned them??

I hope someone else could give you some more advice...

Please keep us posted!

Mary


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Kristy and Welcome!

Thank you for your concern for these little ones. Definitely bring them in. Any chance you can catch Mom and Pop and bring the whole family in at least until the babies are older?

Anyway, do bring the babies in and keep them very warm. You will need to feed them .. please click on the Resources link at the top of the pigeons.com page and review the information there about care and feeding.

We will be happy to help you all we can so keep us posted.

Terry Whatley


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## kristy (Jun 21, 2002)

The brown one seems to be gone for now, and the mom and dad were just here feeding them. After they left (I think they have another nest) I dripped some water on the birds beaks to wash off the blood, and they seem a lot better. I also put a little flat dish of water in for them, and hope they'll take it.

As far as catching mom and dad, I don't think it's possible - plus, the four of them would be crammed in a cat carrier, which wouldn't be enough room. I think I can only bring in the babies.

The babies are very large now, and I guess they're 15 days old, They have their feathers and all that... so I guess the question is - what do I feed them if I bring them in now? I'll probably bring them in in a week, but it may be sooner depending on when they get to my balcony (the cruel, heartless --------)... I've been upset about this for a week, since I found out about the work on the balcony, but now with them bleeding.... I'm heartbroken







If these pigeons die, I swear It'll be the end of me... how horrible that brown bird is! If I catch it... I don't know what I'll do to it, but it sure won't be nice. What an awful bird - it also hurt their father, and it's own mate!! I saw it's "wife" and she was bleeding too, and I'm pretty sure it was from him... maybe he's nuts??


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

Hello and thanks for caring for those babys!









For now the babys won't be able to drink on their own so there is no need to put water in their nest.
I don't think it would be a good idea to bring the parents in since they truly will be unhappy, i brought many pigeons into my apt. and they flew around like nuts and hated it! And it WOULDN'T be a good idea to leave them in the carrier, i think you should just bring the babys in and you will need to soak some seeds(wild bird seed will do) for about 5 hours in water and handfeed it to them, until they are about 3 weeks old and can start to eat seeds and drink water on their own....

Good Luck for now and i can provide you with detailed handfeeding instructions later when you decide to bring them in!









Mary


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## kristy (Jun 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by maryco:
> For now the babys won't be able to drink on their own so there is no need to put water in their nest.


OK... I'll leave it there for now 'cuz I'm scared to take it out LOL The gray one is a real nipper!











> I don't think it would be a good idea to bring the parents in since they truly will be unhappy, i brought many pigeons into my apt. and they flew around like nuts and hated it! And it WOULDN'T be a good idea to leave them in the carrier,


That's the thing - I have a cat and fish tanks, so the birds couldn't come out of the cage out here... so no adults, I agree.



> i think you should just bring the babys in and you will need to soak some seeds(wild bird seed will do) for about 5 hours in water and handfeed it to them, until they are about 3 weeks old and can start to eat seeds and drink water on their own....


What if I bring them in when they're 21 days? What would I feed them then? I'm hoping they'll be able to stay out until then, but I guess I'll be getting up with the sun to watch over them...

What am I going to do on Saturday?? I have to go out all day! What should I do??



> Good Luck for now and i can provide you with detailed handfeeding instructions later when you decide to bring them in!


I think I need it now... because I'm so scared to leave them out there alone all day Saturday!























You know how many family members of mine think I'm nuts? I adore these birds. The first time I had a batch, my one grandmother said she would come over and kill them! I can't understand how people can think of these birds as pests! We brought them here, and we have taken away their homes and built houses and taken over.... it makes me sick that people can just not care about a living creature. Boy, sometimes the strangest things will remind you of how awful humanity can be.

Sorry for ranting, but as I said, my family thinks I'm nuts and I can't talk to anyone about this


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

Bring 'em in!









As i said soak some seeds(if you have) if not them you could use oatmeal flakes with some water make it mushy and warm NOT hot!

Hold your left hand around the back of their head to try to keep their beak open
Take some food with your hand and put it into the back of their mouth and they will swallow it.

Do this until their crop(puffy chest part) gets full but not too full so they choke(it should feel soft like a marshmellow after feeding.

Make sure to keep them in a warm place on a old sweatshirt(NOT towel, their toe nails will get stuck in it)and keep them some where quite and don't talk to them when you are feeding since they could get used to your voice if you are going to release them later.

Thats about it for now!
If you have more questions please post them

Mary




[This message has been edited by maryco (edited June 21, 2002).]


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## kristy (Jun 21, 2002)

OK... we're going to have to wait until Sunday to bring them in as we don't have the cat carrier after all... I think they'll be OK until then.

I'm off to buy some bird seed


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

Good!









Make sure on sunday you soak about 1 cup of seeds in water ahead of time since they will have to be soaked for 5 hours or more.

Mary


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## kristy (Jun 21, 2002)

Will do! Thanks again


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## kristy (Jun 21, 2002)

Here is a photo showing the damage to one of the babies


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

OHHHHHHH.........








Thats terrible.

hope they will be ok and make sure not to let that "Brown pigeon" get too close to them!

Mary


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## kristy (Jun 21, 2002)

I saw old brownie by the bus stop, so that's pretty far away... I'm hoping he won't come back. Plus, it's raining, and so they're not out and about.

By brown I mean red







He's one of three red pigeons here, the other being his "wife" and the third being his only living kid... wonder if he killed the other one









One of the babies here is almost pure white - just black on the tips of her wings... the other is just a regular pigeon. The mom is regular colouring, and the dad is checkerboard (I think)... the last batch had one regular and one pied.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Kristy,

It is important to get those babies in where they will be safe as soon as possible. The younger/smaller they are, the more at risk they are. If you try to wait too long, they will either have been killed or will be big and strong enough not to need help. Unfortunately, the loss of their lives is the most likely thing to happen.

I suggest you go ahead and bring them in now and assess and tend to any wounds they have. This will also give you the rest of today and the night to see if they are at all self feeding yet. If so, you can safely leave them with food and water tomorrow. If they are not self feeding can you find a friend or neighbor who will care for them on Saturday? If not, you will need to get up very early and feed them and then feed them again just before you leave.

Please keep us posted.

Terry Whatley


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## kristy (Jun 21, 2002)

> I suggest you go ahead and bring them in now and assess and tend to any wounds they have. This will also give you the rest of today and the night to see if they are at all self feeding yet. If so, you can safely leave them with food and water tomorrow. If they are not self feeding can you find a friend or neighbor who will care for them on Saturday? If not, you will need to get up very early and feed them and then feed them again just before you leave.[/B]


There are two problems right now - number one, I have no where to put them... plus I'm watching them for the rest of the day outside, so they won't be alone today. I will probably bring them in tomorrow morning when the sun comes up.

The second problem is that I will be gone from 7:30am until 7:30pm on Saturday, and no one lives close enough to help (and they probably wouldn't anyway).


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

Maybe someone here lives close to you and is willing to help!
I really would if i lived near you,but i'm in toronto(Canada)


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Kristy
I have emailed you privately


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## kristy (Jun 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by maryco:
> *Maybe someone here lives close to you and is willing to help!
> I really would if i lived near you,but i'm in toronto(Canada)*


I live in Toronto! ROFL Actually, I'm in Etobicoke...

But I think this is going to work out - we're going to block off the box so no one goes in, no one goes out, and I'll be back in the middle of the day to feed them... just cross your fingers for them!


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

So am I!!!!!!!!
I am in etobicoke too(west mall)!!!!!!!!!



[This message has been edited by maryco (edited June 21, 2002).]


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## kristy (Jun 21, 2002)

I AM ON THE EAST MALL!
Whaaaaat that's nuts ROFL

I can probably see you wave from your balcony LOL!!! We probably have the same pigeons even


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

WOW!!!!!!If you like you can bring them to me to take care of for the day! 
If you like!I am willing to help!

I also have a pet pigeonin my apt.!

Mary


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## kristy (Jun 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by maryco:
> *WOW!!!!!!If you like you can bring them to me to take care of for the day!
> If you like!I am willing to help!*


Hmmm... how early will you be up?







The only worry is that if I take them from their parents tomorrow, I'm stuck with it - but if I wait, maybe the Evil Brown won't come back and I can hold off until Sunday when I get the cat carrier - my real worry is that the cat will get at them here... so the longer I wait, the better....

It's too bad you couldn't put them out on your balcony







But the parents would never find them...

Let me think about it for an hour or so, and check out their condition and stuff... I'm hoping to only be gone for 2 hours in the morning, and then in the afternoon I might be able to cover the box... let me think about it anyway


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

Ok think it over, i am up early and i could even show you HOW to feed them, i got some baby bird formula !

Mary


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## kristy (Jun 21, 2002)

Well, if I do bring them over it'll be at about 10-11am - before that I think I'll cover them and hope for the best... then I'm around for an hour or so, so I'll see what's happening, if their parents feed them, etc. and so I'll let you know - wanna take this to email?


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

You can email me for the address at [email protected]


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## kristy (Jun 21, 2002)

I just wanted to give an update

Mary has offered to take the babies and raise them for me - I really do not have the environment to do so... on the balcony, yes, but not inside - I have many many open-topped fish tanks for them to fly into, and a cat who loooooves to watch them outside but would loooove to eat them inside







Plus, I have a little girl... and they'd have to live in a closet... and I don't have a proper enclosure... you get the picture









When I found out the balcony was going to be worked on, I had no idea that the solution would be so easy and so wonderful... I thought I would leave them out during the work, but after watching them work today, I realize it would have been terrible for the babies... I am blessed to have found this forum, and to have found Mary and all of you who offer help









But I'll be having more! As soon as they're done working, I'll set up another box and another batch will hatch, darn it!









Thanks for all your help


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Mary and Kristy .. You go girls!!!!

I am so glad you found each other via pigeons.com. This has been a happy ending and a happy beginning for all parties.

Please keep us posted.

Terry Whatley


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## Rob (Jun 13, 2002)

This is great!!! 

Who would have thought that these birds were actually trying to introduce two *loving ladies* that are neighbors? 

Way cool!!!









[This message has been edited by Rob (edited June 21, 2002).]


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## kristy (Jun 21, 2002)

I'll go over all the time to take photos ROFL I can hear Mary go "oh no!" from here









We'll definitely keep you all posted on their progress... and I'll be sticking around here to learn more, too!


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## kristy (Jun 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by Rob:
> *This is great!!!
> Who would have thought that these birds were actually trying to introduce two loving ladiesthat are neighbors?
> Way cool!!!
> ...


I know! And had they not been attacked today, I never would have found pigeons.com or Mary or any of you!! Always find the silver lining









It's incredible how things work out... small world and all that


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## turkey (May 19, 2002)

Wow, so much for me to take in! Great story!

Anyone live near me???









Kristy, like you I have many people that think I'm nuts and I should just open my door and put my pigeon out. 

I can read my husband's mind as he thinks, Are you done with the pigeon yet?

Julie

[This message has been edited by turkey (edited June 21, 2002).]


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## kristy (Jun 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by turkey:
> *Kristy, like you I have many people that think I'm nuts and I should just open my door and put my pigeon out.
> I can read my husband's mind as he thinks, Are you done with the pigeon yet?*


Someone at my husband's work actually asked why we didn't just throw them over!! I can't imagine... taking the life of a creature just because you find them a nuissance! How about if I found that guy a nuissance and shot him in the head? What would happen to me? ARGH

Hubby loves the pigeons, I think... he talks to them, and to Momma and Poppa... he wasn't big on having a second batch, just because momma used to fly into his face when he went out to smoke, but once I moved the box... he liked them







Then again, he also grew to love 11 fish tanks... yay hubby


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## turkey (May 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by kristy:
> * ...How about if I found that guy a nuissance and shot him in the head? What would happen to me? ARGH B]*


*

Oh... Let me tell you a story...
When my neighbor's kitten dislocated it's hip in my van's engine, I took it to the hospital and paid the $100 bill, asking for no money from it's owner and the owner said I had no right to do that to their property, and they would have had it put to sleep. They threatened with this and that. I went round about with animal control and found that cats had no rights!?! I was told to bring them the kitten the next time it happened, and when it happened again, I (half crying) brought the kitten to them, and three days later the kitten showed up at my door with it's hip STILL out of socket. I called the police and everyone! Long story short, a cat has no rights and I cried so hard like I've never cried before through this whole ordeal. And I'm the nussiance. Before I moved I took all of their cats to the pound. They really were better off there, but my heart was saying they're just going to get more cats. There was 15 of them in all in the beginning. 
 
Hubby loves the pigeons, I think... he talks to them, and to Momma and Poppa... he wasn't big on having a second batch, B][/QUOTE]

My husband likes Turkey, but after being in the house for over a month now, he seems to be getting tired of Turkey.









Julie

[This message has been edited by turkey (edited June 21, 2002).]*


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## kristy (Jun 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by turkey:
> * My husband likes Turkey, but after being in the house for over a month now, he seems to be getting tired of Turkey.
> 
> 
> ...


Really! You'd think they'd grow to love them.... well, let him get tired of Turkey - just say "Well honey, I'm glad I didn't get tired of YOU after a month!"









Funny fact - one of our first babies was named Chicken


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## turkey (May 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by kristy:
> * Really! You'd think they'd grow to love them.... well, let him get tired of Turkey - just say "Well honey, I'm glad I didn't get tired of YOU after a month!"
> 
> 
> ...


Good one! I'll use that.

Julie


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

Hi everyone:

I am going today to pickup the babies from Kristy.....







and am wondering after bringing them home should i put anything on that injury on one of the babies head(above in picture) or should i just leave it alone?

I got everthing prepared to raise them, they are pretty big so it would be about a week and then i also got some pigeons on my balcony that same age so they sort of can watch each other/learn to eat and take their first flights together. That would make it easier









Thanks everyone!!

Mary


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## kristy (Jun 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by maryco:
> *Hi everyone:
> I am going today to pickup the babies from Kristy.....
> 
> ...


There's actually cuts on both their heads, and Pestilence (the white one) is missing half her ceres


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## kristy (Jun 21, 2002)

That's awful about the cats! It's terrible that some humans are so egotistic that they think they're better than other animals... ugh


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

Ok, i just picked up the 2 squabs from Kristy's home and i will feed them now and put them outside for some air.....
But as Kristy said the white one has some part of her cere and beak bitten off, what should i put on it for now?

Thanks everyone!

Mary



[This message has been edited by maryco (edited June 22, 2002).]


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

I just put some Peroxide+Water on her head and cere(it seemed to hert her becuase the skin is all ripped off one side of the cere.....







)
The other squab in the picture(grey one) has some lumpy skin piece on his head and there is no feathers in that area becuase of the injury.....Poor Babies...

They are now full and sleeping in the box outside in the big cage..

Mary


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Mary, can you get some Baytril for the injured one? It will help to heal quicker.


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

I am ordering some medications(including Baytril) soon to keep here for emergency. 

She is very young (16 days old) and would it be ok to use the Baytril on her and her sibling?

Thanks
Mary



> Originally posted by Nooti:
> *Mary, can you get some Baytril for the injured one? It will help to heal quicker.*


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

I just fed them dinner and it seems that the white ones cere really hurts while feeding it's like open pink skin on one side and it really hurts.....









The other grey one accepted the food and ate ALOT but it's very hard to get the little one to eat....
Is there anything i could put over to make it less painful?
I don't have the baytril now, and when i get it it's the liquid one. and the babies don't drink water yet so what am i suppose to do?


ANY addvice would be MUCH appreciated










Mary


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## kristy (Jun 21, 2002)

We got baytril injections at the vet for our fish - maybe you could call around and see if one of them could give her an injection?


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

Hi Kristy









I could easily order it online from siegel, but it is the liquid kind so i will have to fiqure out a way to give it to them








There are tablets available but they are at another store.

I will keep you updated!

Mary




> Originally posted by kristy:
> *We got baytril injections at the vet for our fish - maybe you could call around and see if one of them could give her an injection?*


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## WhiteWingsCa (Mar 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by maryco:
> *Is there anything i could put over to make it less painful? *



Mary, do you have any polysporin around? you can use that on the baby....

I prefer the ointment as opposed to the cream. It keeps the wound moist, which, believe it or not, is a GOOD thing. Might help with the pain, too, 'cos if the wound is drying out, it is pulling....

Janine


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

Thanks you very much Janine!!









I got some and i will use it tomorrow..
Hopefully it will get better... by the way will part of the cere grow back or will it stay that way forever???

Thanks
Mary



> Originally posted by WhiteWingsCa:
> *
> Mary, do you have any polysporin around? you can use that on the baby....
> 
> ...


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Maryco
If you can get the oral Baytril 2.5% strength and a 1ml syringe then just dose twice daily with the syringe straing into the throat. The dose is 0.1ml NOT 1ml - 0.1ml per 100gms bodyweight twice daily for 5 days. This dose is ONLY for that particular strength so don't use it for another strength you may seriously overdose and damage the liver. If you can only get the 10% strength then you will need to water a portion down, 3 parts boiled and cooled water - 1 part Baytril to acheive the correct strength for the above dosage. Don't give in drinking water. It will not get enough to do any good. 
The baby has done most of its major growing now and 5 days on the correct dose of Baytril will not cause it any problems. However if you are still worried you can plump for Amoxicillin instead.


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## WhiteWingsCa (Mar 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by maryco:
> *... by the way will part of the cere grow back or will it stay that way forever???
> *


I honestly can't say...I don't think we've ever had a baby with a damaged cere. However, I have seen some really horrific wounds heal up.....one of our birds was completely ripped from throat to legs on a wire....no feathers left at all, raw skin, and muscle damage. She healed right up, grew in feathers and everything. We also have a hen that was ripped up by a hawk....large puncture wound on her back, another under her wing. Not only did she heal, but she can still fly!

We've had a couple of pretty nasty "scalpings" heal up nicely too.

So, it's hard to say, but I'm sure this little guy will do just fine, based on what I've seen in our loft!

Janine


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

After feeding the 2 squabies breakfast i put some Polysporin on their heads and on the little white ones cere and it seems to feel much better!!

Thanks!









Mary


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## kristy (Jun 21, 2002)

So how are they today?


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

Hi Kristy 

They are doing fine!
Starting to get used to the place, the first day they really were scarred and yesterday too.
And just today they started trusting me and i had no trouble feeding them at all....they are PECKING at seeds now alittle too!!

I will go out and feed them now..









Mary


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

Also as i said i put some Polysporin on their wounds and they feel much better..hopefully they will be ok


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## kristy (Jun 21, 2002)

Yay! I'm glad they weren't the two who had candida and died from shots







My daughter had thrush as a kid very very very very badly, so I can sympathize with your birds ;(


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

no, no, no those 2 pigeons that died were sick adults and it was 4 months ago..

Just hope for the best for the 2 squabs!









[This message has been edited by maryco (edited June 24, 2002).]


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## kristy (Jun 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by maryco:
> *no, no, no those 2 pigeons that died were sick adults and it was 4 months ago..
> Just hope for the best for the 2 squabs!
> 
> ...


Ahhhh OK







Too bad about your adults, though







We have an adult here who keeps holding her foot up, the "wife" of Evil Brown... but otherwise, all seem well.


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

Are you sure her food is injured becasue pigeons usually hold their foot up when roosting!




> Originally posted by kristy:
> * Ahhhh OK
> 
> 
> ...


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## kristy (Jun 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by maryco:
> *Are you sure her food is injured becasue pigeons usually hold their foot up when roosting!*


She's limping too, when she walks on the balcony that foot is always up...


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