# grooming = coupling?



## Kimberly_CA (Jan 5, 2008)

I have 3 pigeons and so far non have ever show any interest in each other except pecking saying "get away i'm eating"..

Until today I thought all three were boys. 10 min ago my most passive "boy" was gently grooming the face of my most aggressive ham of a male pigeon. Is this coupling behavior? I was extremely surprised...


also if she is a she, she has gone 9 months and never layed an egg, is that normal?

EDIT: ok since I wrote this the passive one has groomed him some more all over & now sleeping together touching which is new too......


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I think most pigeons mature physically around 6 months but need more time to mature emotionally. It seems like a lightbulb goes on in their head when they finally figure out what gender they are and show interest in the opposite sex.

But most of my birds are around 5 to 6 months when they start showing interest in serious coupling, and pruning is part of that. Before that it is all mostly play.

If she is nine months old, she may not have found any interest in the males around her until now or she is waiting for spring. I have a hen that I was not sure of as she showed no interest for quite some time, she finally matured and found a mate, happened within a week. Her daughter is the same.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Pretty well sums it up*



Trees Gray said:


> I think most pigeons mature physically around 6 months but need more time to mature emotionally. It seems like a lightbulb goes on in their head when they finally figure out what gender they are and show interest in the opposite sex.
> 
> But most of my birds are around 5 to 6 months when they start showing interest in serious coupling, and pruning is part of that. Before that it is all mostly play.
> 
> If she is nine months old, she may not have found any interest in the males around her until now or she is waiting for spring. I have a hen that I was not sure of as she showed no interest for quite some time, she finally matured and found a mate, happened within a week. Her daughter is the same.


Years ago, I had a hen that never laid an egg until she was a year and a half. I always wondered if she was a male or something in between. Just waited for the right guy I guess.

Bill


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## Kimberly_CA (Jan 5, 2008)

I'm actually not sure how old she is. I found her 9 months ago and she was already full grown. She has been with a male but he was a juvenile little butthead so they didn't like each other. Now she is flirting with a full grown male. Other than what I mentioned before they have now started "whispering sweet nothings" in the form of barely audible cooing to each other, do any of your birds do that? They do it next to each other and also across the cage, really soft slow coos.....I think love is in the air  
Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

jbangelfish said:


> Years ago, I had a hen that never laid an egg until she was a year and a half. I always wondered if she was a male or something in between. *Just waited for the right guy I guess.*
> Bill


That's it, some hens are just picky and the hen does make the decision whether they want to mate or not.  



Kimberly_CA said:


> I'm actually not sure how old she is. I found her 9 months ago and she was already full grown. She has been with a male but he was a juvenile little butthead so they didn't like each other. Now she is flirting with a full grown male. Other than what I mentioned before they have now started "whispering sweet nothings" in the form of barely audible cooing to each other, do any of your birds do that? They do it next to each other and also across the cage, really soft slow coos.....I think love is in the air
> Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!



It does sound like she founf a male she likes and is mature.  That definitely sounds like love is in the air.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*You gals have got it made*

Howcome the guys never get to make these decisions? It's always up to the girls.

A little side note to all of this mating and pairing business.

I paired up 16 pair of pigeons yesterday afternoon after the males and females were separated for 6 weeks or so. I would normally give them more time apart but I have just taken over this group of birds from my son. They are Birmingham Rollers, not that the breed matters.

After putting the birds into separate pens with the mates that I chose for them, there were at least 2 pairs that were mated within minutes and settling down to doing what mated pairs do, including breeding and what follows.

They sit together, the male makes a calling noise which is sort of a woooo, woooo, over and over, while she will act as if she is head over heels in love with him, preening around his head and just seeming to completely enjoy his company. He will also be flicking a wing as he sits.

After observing for a few hours, there were a few pairs that were still fighting, one pair the male just was so overbearing and mean that the hen was trying very hard to get out of the cage and I eventually separated them. 

I put a different hen into his pen and his behavior changed to just trying to woo her without pecking and driving her and he won her over. They had bonded within minutes.

The hen that I had taken away from him was now with a different male who was treating her better and they too had bonded within minutes.

By the late afternoon, I had at least 5 pair that were completely happy to be together.

I had always believed that these variables were only dictated by the state of readiness of the female, in direct relation to when she needed to lay her eggs. The male is always ready unless sick or injured.

I guess I proved myself to be wrong and that there is a certain amount of selection that the birds go through and that they may not be happy with our choices for them.

I have force mated many pairs of pigeons (and doves and cagebirds) over the years and I know from experience that they would eventually accept my choice for them. I just decided that in these particular pairs, my choices were not that important and I let them help me out.

I must be turning into a marshmallow in my old age.

Bill


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

So true, I had a hen who turned her beak/nose up to any male that came along. She finally settled down with the most unlikely male pigeon.

I'm glad you moved the hens around, I find its best to just let them pick and choose, but I guess you can't do that when you are looking after the future gene pool.

Thanks for sharing.


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

I think it's cute they way they pair themselves up. It makes me wonder, when a pair have "found" each other...were they sitting across the loft spying on each other for all the months before they decided to pair up...? It makes me laugh to picture that. Mine all get to choose their own mates. Only time I "disapproved" was half-siblings...I wasn't sure if their babies would be OK. I guess breeders do that sort of thing a lot so no worries.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*I wouldn't worry about half sibs too much*



TheSnipes said:


> I think it's cute they way they pair themselves up. It makes me wonder, when a pair have "found" each other...were they sitting across the loft spying on each other for all the months before they decided to pair up...? It makes me laugh to picture that. Mine all get to choose their own mates. Only time I "disapproved" was half-siblings...I wasn't sure if their babies would be OK. I guess breeders do that sort of thing a lot so no worries.


That normally would be including a pretty large gene pool.
I don't normally full brother sister mate and especially not nest mates. Many breeders would not worry about this at all but they don't mind pulling the heads off of deformed birds either.

Line breeding is mother to son or father to daughter or aunts, uncles, grandparents etc. This is how a separate strain of birds (or fish or whatever) is created. As long as there are no bad genes in the blood, it works very well.

Bill


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

TheSnipes said:


> I think it's cute they way they pair themselves up. It makes me wonder, when a pair have "found" each other...were they sitting across the loft spying on each other for all the months before they decided to pair up...?


Y'know, we got one male who seemed to be doing just that. We've had him a long time, never paired, stays around his ground level box. Recently, though, the hen across the way from him parted company with her mate of long standing, and moved in with this 'oddball'. We are thinking that the odd one ('Prettybar') has been giving this hen the eye for years and she finally decided to give him a try! Now she has both males hangin' around 

Fastest pairing we had is when our Zygaena, the white hen who spent 2 days trying to get _into_ the aviary, was in the required isolation period up in the 'pigeon hospital' room. The disabled ex-racer we were giving a home to, safely separated in the next cage, was courting her through the wires soon as he saw her. So, pretty soon Cynthia had to let 'em share a cage, whereupon they paired up even before they got to the aviary 

John


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*A pigeon divorce*

It happens, contrary to popular belief.

Bill


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