# My heart is breaking



## Rockie (Jan 18, 2005)

Well it's officially happening as I write this. I am weaning my flock of approx 500 pigeons off of me feeding them. They are out there right now, all of them, looking for their seed and not understanding why it's not there. They are wandering out into the street where the cars are & I'm forced to go outside every few minutes and chase them away. I'm crying and so, so sad. They are all looking down on me & waiting. I can't wait for dark to come tonight and I pray for the strength I need to get through this every day, as long as it takes.

Long story short, I came to this site early last year to find out the best way to gradually wean off feeding my flock, due to the landlords threats. There were suggestions of relocating them, which can't be done in my area or else I will end up on someone else's property. The landlord ended up having other problems elsewhere and so he had other things on his mind & I had a connection in his office to keep me posted. I tried to wean them off on two occasions & I just couldn't. They wander into the street looking for food & get hit by cars.

Well, a neighbor has complained & I have to take immediate action to make sure my babies aren't poisened. I'm putting food out the night before for the next morning (one bucket only, which is a 50% cut down to start). I know I brought this on myself, allowing the flock to grow so large...I admit to you my fellow pigeon friends that I am a bit obsessed. My instinct has been to feed them anytime I saw them, all day long, going through up to 80 lbs of seed per day. 

I can't write anymore, but thanks for listening.


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## kittypaws (Sep 18, 2005)

*I'm sorry*

Leslie,

I am sorry for your predicament - it must be very hard for you. I know I feel guilty if I don't have seed for the handful ( and it's 15 max) that I feed everyday. And the reason I try not to feed them every day is that a) I don't want them getting dependant on me and b) I don't want to draw attention to myself and them.

I don't have any great words of wisdom except to say that I would think that gradually they will realise that there isn't any food and they will seek other places and it will be there because humans are such a wasteful species with food waste.

If you are secretly putting out some food ( and it is less) that will be OK - Alright they won't get as much as they normally do but they will manage I am sure. Also less food means less breeding which starts to "trim" down the flock. i.e the natural deaths won't be replaced by more birds. It's the old adage of survival of the fittest, but pigeons are wily old birds - they aren't going to starve deliberately. I've seen pigeons pecking at grass before finding bits and pieces to eat in there.

It's very hard to send comforting words as they are there all the time but gradually I think they will drift away. Whilst you are still putting a little food out there then they will come but in time competition will be greater and some will go elsewhere.

Try and be strong

Tania


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## Jimmy Jo (Oct 16, 2005)

Oh Leslie, My heart is breaking for You ! Sometimes our love and compassion can lead us to do things that aren't necessarily in the best interest of the ones we are trying to protect, by creating an unnatural dependence...However, I agree with Tania, Your "babies" will soon realize that that the food is no longer available in your area and go elsewhere...I'm sure they won't let themselves starve. I really wish that I could be of some help to you, I know you are hurting terribly. Just try and be strong and know that there are people out here that care deeply for what you are going through right now. p.s. I'm a Vegetarian too


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## andinla (Mar 11, 2003)

*I was told to stop feeding the birds too!! heres what you*

can do. 

1. Cut back on food supply (which you have) 50%
2. Put it out only at night. Wear dark clothes and I put it in dark bags and punch little holes at the bottom of the bags (after they are filled) and I walk around the grass area and opps it falls out. It's great when you have a dog a long because people think you just have poop bags for fido hee hee!!! 
3. If you have to start by putting it around trees near the sidewalk. 
4. Another thing I have been driving slowly at night after all is well asleep and I have little containers lined up in my car (1) per alley and I slowly pour it in the alley's in my town
5. Open fields is great place to spread seed. Make sure you spread it far and wide that way people won't think someone poured seed out for them.
6. Church parking lots don't have much traffic during the week days. 


Where are your pigeons sleeping at night. ? Are there baseball fields with big open spaces? fields anywhere? I know you must have alley's right? 

you will sleep better at night knowing that there is food out there and they have to find it. Which they will. It gives them something to do during the day and it keeps them off your property. We all have to work for food, and now your flock has a new job (hunting) they will survive and you will be ok, it just takes time. 

I have and still am going through the same thing. Good luck and don't worry they will be fine....

Just remember spread far and wide and not clustered together (that's when we get into trouble.) And we bring trouble to them also if we don't spread it out!!!!

Andi


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## Rockie (Jan 18, 2005)

Thanks for everyones compassion. I am so drained from today and I'm about to head home to my furry & feathered babies. I have 15 rescued pijies at home, and although of course I wish they never got sick or injured, I feel comforted to know they are there & I still have a connection to them. Soon there will be no more at the shop where I work. It took every bit of strength & love that I have for them today, not to cave in & put more food out. It was true torture. I know they are smart creatures & I hope they learn extremely fast. Some of them I must be feeding all their lives & they probably never had to search for food any day in their life so far. What have I done? I have always felt that we as humans have taken so much from the wildlife, and if we could give back to them by offering food, we should. I still believe this, but I have to really rethink the ways to do this.

Tania, I think you have the right idea...everything in moderation & don't let them get totally dependent on you. If I could only turn back the hands of time. Thank you for sharing.

Jan, thank you so much for your caring words...I think I will be needing a lot of them (& tissues) for awhile. 

Andi, thanks for your many great ideas & ones that I can relate to as well (I drop seeds out of empty tic tac dispensers when I walk in parking lots). Unfortunately, I feed them in an industrial area where there are all businesses, no open fields or lots. The flock does come from different directions. We are pretty close to a main road where there are some fast food places. We are also close to a Home Depot shopping area. Unfortunately I heard they are not fond of pigeons and they may be poisoning them. My big fear is that I've created too big a flock for the area & there won't be enough food to go around.

I will continue to put out the food at night, in hopes that they come first thing in the morning, eat & fly away as quickly as possible. For now I know they will hang around most of the day. Please let them spread out soon to find other food. I hope I can keep this issue w/the neighbor & landlord at bay while I work this out.

THANK YOU ALL...YOU'RE MY KIND OF PEOPLE.


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Leslie, I'm really sorry that you are having to go through this. Please don't kick yourself and feel guilty. Many, if not all of us who feed the ferals have been in your shoes.

The biggest and most important piece of advice I can give you is this: If you are going to leave seed at night, DO NOT give in and put out additional seed throughout the day. I made this mistake myself--throwing seed out throughout the day whenever I saw some birds hanging around. As a result, you wind up having a very noticeable crowd hanging around waiting to see if there will be more food coming. It's much better to have some seed for them early in the morning and that's it. You'll be surprised how quickly they will learn the kitchen is closed, and will fly off to forage some more on their own. It worked for me and within a day or two.

Good luck to you and again, try not to be so hard on yourself.

Linda


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Leslie, 

I'm sorry about your situation, I got in a bit beyond what was OK in a nearby city myself. They would hear my car, and get ready. When I pulled up and got out, they would decend enmasse, and anyone else on the side walk would start freaking out as though they were living out a scene from Alfred Hitchcock.

Linda has given you some good advice, they will find other ways to get food for themselves. And as heartbreaking as it is in the beginning to have to say no, 
in the long run, especially if the threat of poison is being raised, you are only doing the best for them. By all means, find ways to sneak some food to them,
but be careful not to set off any bells that everything is the same to the pigeons or to the human eyes that are watching and no doubt angry.

I wish you the best in your heartbreaking times, and know that in time both you and the pigeons will find a way to live with this trying situation.

fp


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

I'm so sorry to hear about the feeding problem Leslie.
I honestly think it's harder on us humans to cut back than it is on the ferals. 
We want the best for all of them. 

At one time I had in excess of 100 pijjies visiting our backyard twice a day for their meals. Thankfully, the neighbors didn't complain, however I developed some health problems & was no longer able to get out among the flock. 

I began to cut back, & like you I was in tears as some of the flock would follow me from window to window. I could hardly go into the AZ room because it faces the bacykard & is surrounded by windows.

We, the pijjies & me, eventually adjusted to the situation. Now I only have a flock of about 15-20 which I believe are housed in the palm trees in our backyard. They definitely have a 'bird's eye view' of my whereabouts.  

It will take some time & a lot of tears, but everything will work out.  

When you are feeling a little down, always remember your 'pigeon friendly' family is just a click away.  

Cindy


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

I am one of those people people here that Linda refereed to as having been in a similar situation.

Although no where near the 500 birds you mentioned, the small flock I was feeding became an annoyance to my neighbors. They actually where quite good about it, they where just tired of the mess the bird's dropping made, and asked if there was some way I could just feed them else where. There was a small parkette about two blocks away and I started to leave seed there and found the same birds who where hanging around the old feeding place soon realized there was a new spot. 

This made the neighbors happy and the birds actually now have a safer area with less cars around to feed at. I did cut down to feeding them twice a week, although on harsh winter days I may leave food for them. In the end I felt this was a good compromise, as it would allow food for them but not to the extent they lost their natural ability to find food on their own.

Are there any parks, lots, churches or other open areas around you? You may be able to move them to a safer area and wean them back.


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Gosh Rockie, that is a terrible thing that you are going thru. I just read your post but it looks like the group gave you some very sound advice already. Folks here are so quick at responding to other members, old and new, questions.

Cindy, you are so such a kind and compassionate person when some one is down...you are a great source of a "pick me up".


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## Rockie (Jan 18, 2005)

Thank you everyone, your kind words & sharing your own similar experiences really do help me ALOT. I am clinging to your words and reassuring myself that my flock will also make it through this and maybe me too. I would like to think it's harder on me than on them.

I am so thankful that the weather here has been very mild, please pray it stays that way. 

At least I had one person (my UPS man who is animal friendly) thank me for what I had been doing for the pigeons. I asked him if he knew any other area in the neighborhood that I may relocate them to, not for an all day feeding to create the same situation, but for a once a day feeding. He knew no places and noone else in the area that does what I have been doing. I also drove around really looking hard for a place, with no luck. 

It took all my strength today not to put add'l seed out...I kept telling myself not to give in, just as Linda urged. I hope someone out there is proud of me, cause it wasn't easy!

Thanks again, it's so nice to know others care and understand the magnitude of this. Even members of my family, although they of course love me, they just don't get it.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I'm so sorry to hear about your predicament. This is such a difficult time for you. I'm sure.

Sometimes our best intensions are not actually what is for the good of the flock.

Please continue to do what is for the "good of the flock". They will find another, area, to feed where they will be safe from attention, complaints, and eventual poisoning.


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Rockie said:


> It took all my strength today not to put add'l seed out...I kept telling myself not to give in, just as Linda urged. I hope someone out there is proud of me, cause it wasn't easy!


I'm proud of you!


Leslie, I know what it feels like to see them all waiting and I know how it feels to force yourself not to give in....it breaks your heart. Hopefully, it shouldn't take long for them to realize that there will only be one feeding, early in the morning. When I cut down to one early morning feeding, it took about 3 days for them (a flock of about 90 birds visiting my driveway) to "get it." After that, they would all come early, eat, and would be gone in about 20 minutes. So, here's hoping you won't have to wait too much longer for them to acclimate.

Good luck,
Linda


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

That is terrific advice that you gave Linda. I think the same way about my feedings at my bird station. I am carefull with my feeder not to overdue it by going more than once a day, worrying that I may be ruining the birds so that they become completely and utterly dependant on me. They have poor chances after that if cut off cold turkey.

I do however step in when the weather has turned bad without a second thought. I check the weather reports every night. If it snows I go out several time to make sure there is a good accessible supply of food and that it is not buried. I also increase the volume I put out if it is very cold. 

Andi has some good ideas about cutting back. Just use your common sense Leslie about how you appproach your problem and don't feel too pressured by what the neighbors say. Sometimes it is just noise. If it is a real threat to your flock though you must be proactive and take steps to protect them. Perhaps cutting back by 10% a day for 10 days. What will happen in my experience is that the more aggressive birds will still get a good full meal each day while the others will get only part nourishment and will start looking elsewhere. Each day your flock will shrink as they locate new sources of food. I am against the sudden shock of totally cutting them off. They need time to prepare for coming famine. It's like, if you lose your job and have no benefits coming your way. That is a crisis. Some sink and some swim when it happens without warning.

Cameron


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## andinla (Mar 11, 2003)

*It's me again.*

I feel for you I really do... is there trees, bushes in and around the business complexes? You could sprinkle seed around the bushes also Mc Donalds must have some bushes somewhere on their property.??? They would never hurt the birds (fear of being the bad guys) another options just don't get caught late at night you could toss seed upon the roof tops of the business complex roofs. Small brown bags (sack lunch bags) fill them up and toss.. or just seed by the handful. Sometimes I stand on my Jeep's roof and toss. Hey ya gotta do what ya gotta do sometimes...ha! just spread it out around everywhere so they are not all together coming down to eat, thats when people complain. 

What city are you located in? just curious......

Good luck

Andi


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*The predicament of hungry pigeons*

I fully understand what you are going through.

There are city statutes in many major cities against feeding feral pigeons. I am going to be somewhat vague, since before I was aware of this I did attempt to rehabilitate a pigeon by integrating him into the local flock. 

I readily admit to dropping seed to attract a pigeon in desperate need of human intervention, to remedy prior human intervention and abuse, whom I took to the veterinarian or to the animal shelter, should any one inquire. 

I know of a lady with a congenital defect who has been very active in her self-help group and newsletter. When one has an eventually fatal disease, one likes to live live fully and not focus on the negative more than necessary. This lady is active, helps others when her condition permits, and at times feels good enough to do things which may indicate to casual observers that maybe she isn't so bad off after all. (She does her time-consuming therapies in the privacy of her home). 

Not too long ago she was applying for increased disability benefits. She noticed a van following her everywhere. The medical insurance company had done a Google search on her, read her uplifting and positive newsletter contributions, and were gathering videos and info so as to deny her benefits. (They were being "penny-wise and pound-foolish" in my point of view. Don't pay for the antibiotics now, pay for the lung-transplant later). 

She made a point in the newsletter that what we say and do and think is somewhat private, shared only among friends in a small internet group or SIG (special interest group) may be used against us in ways we don't expect. Be careful in what you do (think of car license plates, cell phones with video cameras, night infrared vision binoculars, people doing something else -- stake-outs, hanging around -- but stumbling across your activiites). 

We sympathize with pigeons we see pulling on chewing gum stuck to the asphalt amid taxis and city buses spewing black diesel exhaust. Pigeons drinking from beautiful iridescent oil-slicked street puddles. Pigeons frantically scrambling several times an hour when city-sponsored raptors pass overhead. We want to help, and we really don't know how much we are needed or depended on. We start to feel obligations, commitments. 

Pigeons are very hardy birds. That said, there is always the one who won't make to tomorrow without a wee bit of timely help (just like humans). I would have been dead I figure twenty or thirty times over without some antibiotics to help tide me over the rough spots. I know, because I've gotten pretty close several times. Out on the veldt, the lions would have gotten me. It’s okay for humans to be intubated and sustained in a vegetative state for an indeterminate length of time, but corresponding rules do not apply to pigeons or other wild animals. They should have to survive according to the „laws“ of nature, which we, each and every, humans abuse and do not take seriously. 

There are people who will go a bit out out of their way to demonstrate some feeling of control (over a mere pigeon) in their lives to themselves. Some cause trouble just to avoid losing the knack. 

There are also those, and they are many, who will go out of their way to show kindness, to make sure that non-threatening creatures they are aware of have what is needed to enjoy their existence. 

There are those who have the time and the energy and the resources to hurt or to help. 

Most people I come across are not malicious. Most people I observe on the street pass pigeons, and pigeons eating, without notice. (While I am spending time noticing people noticing or not noticing pigeons, I am missing other details. If I notice all the dog poop on the sidewalk, and whether there is more or there is less of it lately -- there has been less, by the way – I don’t notice the trees in bud, the new style of crutches, the length or absence of short skirts, or whatever). 

Pigeons are hardy. I watched two pigeons pecking at food, their heads bobbing, and within two minutes fifteen or twenty pigeons converged from different directions from several blocks around (I was high enough up to see all of this), gliding and swooping with little effort. Again I see a one-legged pigeon strenuously hunching and hopping towards food. How has she survived all these months? I recognize pigeons, then see them no more. They pass. They are gone. Their deaths and deprivations are private, while I have one beer too many, too much plentiful dessert ... again.


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## Rockie (Jan 18, 2005)

I feel so horrible and sick to my stomach. I only have 2 minutes to write this & then if I don't get back to work I'll have even more trouble.

Last week was bad, but I secretly felt it could have been worse. The worst last week was the first day & I had to stay outside for 2 hours to chase the pijies from the street in the afternoon. The other days they still came but mostly stayed up on the wires and roof. I couldn't bring myself to even walk in their area or put the food/water out myself. I was truly in denial. I had my other half take care of it all, every day. Came Sunday & I had to be the one. We have gone from 80 lbs of seed spread over 3 feedings/day to 60 lbs in just the am feeding last week and now, since Saturday, 40 lbs in just the am feeding. Now it's colder out. Now they're coming down all day long. Yesterday I lost one to a car. I was so angry and sad. After that I stayed there about 1 1/2 hours during my workday to keep them out of the street. You had to see me...I wouldn't have believed it if it wasn't me doing it. I literally had to yell at them, wave at them, run at them, I had to take plastic bags and wave them all over the place, all the while yelling I love you but you have to go home now. They went home just as late as usual. It didn't affect them. Everyone seemed to think a few days would do the trick...not for my pigeons. Why is that? Is it because of the obsessive amount of seed I was feeding them before, all day long? I'm being strong but it's killing me. 

To top it off, one of the employees here told me tonight that last week when we had a power outage, two neighbors came out and everyone was pointing to wires where the pigeons hang out and one neighbor was furious. This is the "anonymous" complainer, I know it for sure now. Anyway, he spoke of putting something down in front of his place that if the pigeons eat it they will get sick (he put it like when you get food poisoning) and then they won't come back! TODAY I SAW SOME OF THE PIGEONS STRETCHING OUT ONTO HIS PROPERTY LOOKING FOR FOOD. I have no idea if this is for real, but tomorrow I will look around there to see if there is anything visible. 

I have to think for a while on how to approach this w/them. To them, the way it may look now is worse than before, because the pigeons are more obviously around...they are searching the immediate area for food...in the street, on the grass, everywhere. They are more noticeable now than ever.

I am so worn out at night, I wish crying would help, but it doesn't, nothing does. I knew there would be pain involved, I guess it has to be a lot of pain to equal what I'm putting these poor pigeons through. Can you imagine actually having to chase & yell at your poor sweet pijies? It's a nightmare.


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Leslie,

I'm so very sorry that this is happening...you sound so distraught, and I guess I can't blame you. I don't know why the birds are hanging around waiting till their usual late hour. It truly only took my group about 3 days to get the idea, but now that I'm thinking, the difference may be that I did not really reduce the amount of seed...I just put it all out in one early morning feeding.

I'm sure others will be along with some suggestions for you, but maybe you would be interested in reading this older thread. I remembered it and found it. I know that you've been through so much that you will not like it, but the time may have come that it's something you may have to try---that is, stop feeding entirely. I know that this will be even worse for you, but if the birds continue to hang around all day, and if neighbors are going to start putting out poison, it might be best if you could deter them from coming around at all. According to this previous thread, the opinion was that feeding reduced amounts does lead to the birds staying and foraging on the ground for missed seed longer. If no seed is put out at all, after a few days they ~should~ stop coming and start looking elsewhere for food.
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=4844

Oh boy, Leslie, I know that this is the last thing you want to hear and believe me, if other members have any better ideas or opinions on what is the best thing for you to do other than what I've suggested, I would be thrilled.

Again, I'm so sorry for you.

Linda


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## phyll (Mar 15, 2004)

Leslie,
I'm sorry you & the pigeons have to go through this
because of these creeps. They are responsible for that poor little pigeon's death. 
It looks like it is going to take a while for your pigeons to realize there will be no additional feedings.
I am NOT one of the experts here, but I don't think I would have reduced the amount of seed. IF your plan is
to continue to feed them once-a-day, give them enough to be satisfied. Since the amount of seed has been reduced by half, they are probably still a little hungry.
I suggest you increase the amount to approximately 60 lbs. again, to be fed to them ONLY in the mornings ~ as you are doing now.
After a while they will get the idea & leave. 

Please try to be strong, Leslie, I know it's hard.
Remember, you are doing this for their safety.

Phyll


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Hi again Leslie,

I have to back up what Linda is saying. I have been feeding birds and squirrels for years and never had the kind of problem you are talking about. I do sympathize though and I can see what you are talking about. What Linda says about putting the food out just *once a day only* is good advice. The birds will find other sources of food, they aren't stupid when it comes to eating. What you *don't *want is to feed them through the day as they will become conditioned and just continue to hang around waiting for their next dinner. This will only make your problem worse and I can tell it is really stressing you out. Put some faith in the birds and you will feel better. If the flock get's smaller it is not because they are starving to death, it means they have moved on to happier feeding grounds and that is good for you and for them. I am happy to hear you have gradually reduced the daily feed. You know I am not a fan of cutting them off cold however if poisoning is threatened or taking place though you are better off by eliminating feeding altogether and focussing on catching the culprit or cleaning up the poisoned food. 

Where I feed, I had a very large happy flock until someone started putting moldy bread out. In their mind they were doing the birds a favor but my flock declined by half at least after just a few moldy meals. Some people just don't get that if food is bad for people it is also bad for animals. Birds of course included and while some molds are ok others are deadly. At least in my case I could talk sense to that person. 

Also, if you can, put the feed further and further away from danger and do *resist the temptation *to feed any more near the old locations where the birds could end up getting poisoned. You can move birds a block at a time without any trouble at all. Once one bird finds the seed, it seems the secret is out and they all find it. I am now feeding about 160 lbs of seed a month and I try different things at different times. I am amazed at how adaptable the birds are. They fly afterall, and get that up-high view the rest of us don't see. All the best

Cameron


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## Rockie (Jan 18, 2005)

Thank you all for your support & advice.

I still have no idea what to do. I would like to do the feeding more food at the one time feeding of course, that would be too good to be true...if they ate in the early morning and left after that. It doesn't look like that's going to happen. I am going to increase back to 60 lbs in the am & will see what happens. My gut is telling me I'm going to have to go cold turkey, and if that's the case, I might as well be living someone else's life because I won't recognize mine anymore. That just seems too unbelievable to do, & yet I know I'm a strong person, and if that's what it will take to make sure no pigeons get poisoned or hit by cars, then I will do it. I have to take it one torturous day at a time. 

Thank you Linda and Phyll for helping me. I wish I could scream into the computer so the world would know how I feel...but I think you guys do know, and that means alot to me.

Linda, I appreciate you helping me to see unfortunately what my only option may be, although I'm not giving up just yet. I just can't. I hope I don't get forced into that decision by the rotten neighbor.

Phyll, I hope & pray it can work as you suggest. At first I thought it was torture not to feed all day long. Now I see that if I could at least feed them once a day, that would be a dream come true for me & you'd get not one complaint from me. Sadly, I guess it doesn't always work like that. For example, yesterday & today there was a pigeon "boating" as we call it here (when the pigeon lays down to sleep/rest) in the middle of the street! Yesterday I came right up to him in the car & he never moved, I thought he was gone. I got out of the car & he flew away. People here don't hesitate when driving. It was only luck that I happened by before someone else did. How can I let that happen to them. Don't get me wrong, I will give it my all in trying to avoid the cold turkey method. I appreciate your prayers.

Thank you Cameron. 
Unfortunately, there is no where to move my flock to in this area. I would be faced w/being on other people's property again. I am only doing the 1 feeding now (since Jan 29th) and the pijies still come all day.


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Rockie said:


> Thank you all for your support & advice.
> 
> I still have no idea what to do. I would like to do the feeding more food at the one time feeding of course, that would be too good to be true...if they ate in the early morning and left after that. It doesn't look like that's going to happen. I am going to increase back to 60 lbs in the am & will see what happens.
> I am only doing the 1 feeding now (since Jan 29th) and the pijies still come all day.


Leslie, you're right...you don't need to scream into the computer for us to know how agonizing this is for you. As I said before, I was lucky enough that it lasted only a few days for me, and I can't imagine how terrible it's been for you this many long days.

Here is something that I've been thinking about...I don't know if the info will help or make any difference, but here goes:

You mentioned in the beginning that the flock consists of about 500 birds. Did you know that a sufficient amount of seed is 1 ounce per bird per day?? I sure didn't in the beginning, and it sounds like a paltry amount, but it's true. Based on that, for 500 birds, 32 lbs. of seed per day would be sufficient. You had been originally feeding way over double that amount...enough for 1000 birds! 

My flock at its highest amount was about 90 birds so every morning I put out approx. 90 ounces (about 5 3/4 lbs.) of seed. The birds would come down, eat it all up in about 15 minutes and leave.

Here's what I'm wondering: Could it be that the birds have been hanging around because there is such an excessive amount of seed that it ~pays~ for them to hang around and go rooting around for extra leftover seed that was missed during the initial feeding? Even with putting out 40 lbs total (the lowest amount you've put out), you're talking about enough leftover seed (8 lbs.) for another 128 birds.

Does this make sense to you (or anyone else, for that matter)?

I'm thinking that if you don't want to stop feeding entirely, maybe you could try putting out just the 32 lbs. of seed for a few days and see that makes a difference. Perhaps if they all eat and see for themselves that hanging around and searching for more proves fruitless, they will be more inclined to eat and leave.

Just a suggestion and again, I welcome comments from other members if this might be a good idea or not.

Hang in there....
Linda


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

That is great information. One ounce per day! I didn't know that to tell you the truth but it gives me a yardstick to estimate how many birds I am actually feeding. I put out about 5 lbs plus or minus each day and try not to vary it unless the weather is inclement or there is snow on the ground. You have a good mind for math Linda.

Cameron


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

Bless your heart Rocky,

If only there were more people in this world like you! Don't blame yourself for feeding hungry birds. You did what you had to do, and now you have to do something else. Your flock will be fine, and you'll figure out what will be best for them. If I was a ferel, Id fly to New York, because there's a sweety over there that gives them alot to eat. Most likely, you saved alot of birds this winter. What would of happened to them if you wouldn't have been there? 

God bless You and good luck,
Feather


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## kittypaws (Sep 18, 2005)

*Anoher idea/suggestion? - Long Post!*

Hi Leslie,

I can feel your pain honestly – it must be so awful for you to cope with. When you feel this bad about something it invades your mind totally meaning that you can’t concentrate at work and when at home, there's this black cloud hanging over you. 

I think a lot of the advice given is good but there is varying advice so it is difficult to know what to try next.

I thought I’d share with you a similar situation I had though on a much smaller scale.

A neighbour fed a flock of pigeons (about 50-60) every day and one day she moved. Seeing the pigeons on her old house roof, I felt sorry for them and began to feed them myself. They then began to land on a nearer neighbour’s house. It used to worry me a bit with them all up on her roof but she never said anything.

One day my partner Colin told me that we were going to Barbados for 3 weeks in January. Great I thought but what about the pigeons. It would be January, I would be away 3 weeks, and how could they survive? This was about July. I decided then and there I needed to take action to try and sort the situation before I went. Also my neighbour, although nice was muttering about pigeons making a noise and a mess in her garden!!

So what I did was basically for the rest of that month, I fed them every 2 days, then the next month every 3 days, the next month every 4 days and so on until by December I was only feeding them once a week. Sounds Ok on paper but it wasn’t easy. At first, on the days I didn’t feed them I felt absolutely dreadful. I would go off to work and they would be up on the roof looking at me (or so I thought). The only comfort I could find was that they would be getting a meal the next day or the day after.

By December the flock had definitely thinned out and there was maybe up to a maximum of 10-15 birds so reduced by a quarter and these although would land on the roof at first, didn’t stay around long when they saw there was no food.

They realised that some days there was food and some days there wasn’t and they would take a look and then if it weren’t there they’d fly off.

I went off on my holiday still worrying because there would be no food for 3 weeks (then forgot about them when a mother cat and five kittens took up residence in the garden where we were staying and I worried myself to death about how they would manage when I had gone – I had stupidly began to feed them..)

When I got back, still mithering about the cats, there were no dead pigeons (starved!!) around and the faithful few had disappeared.

So what you could try is to wean them slowly – the advantage you have is that is Winter going into Summer though a while I know, but if maybe you could speak to the person who threatened to poison them and ask for some time, then maybe feed them every other day for a couple of weeks, then reduce to every three days etc, it may work. They will initially be there every morning, having fed but hopefully they will move on when they know they aren’t going to get any food during the day.
Try and leave the food late at night so that they can get to first thing in the morning.

It will be very hard I know, but you need to try and solve this problem and perhaps slowly weaning them off, the flock will disperse slowly, with fewer and fewer birds coming back. Then maybe you can feel like a half decent human being again!! It’s the guilt isn’t it, that we are somehow letting them down.

We are all sharing your agonies although we don’t have to look at their faces every day. Please try and be strong and slowly reduce the food so that the flock in time will reduce.

Kind regards

Tania xx


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

So many good points and observations Tania. Winter is indeed the worst time to be reducing feed. You did the right thing by cutting back in the good summer and fall months. Some habitual birds and those that are a little under the weather will hang in there and stay on no matter what. So it does not surprise me that there were still regulars up till December. When I had to leave my feeder for a two weeks I put out about triple the regular daily feed in one huge pile to be sure they could get through the 14 days. I hid it under a few trees. When I got back there was still a little seed left but barely two more days supply. My flock meanwhile had grown quite a bit. 

I also think it would be a good idea to talk to the stubborn neighbor and see if a resolution could be found. Even unreasonable people can see to common sense if they believe you are trying to solve *their *problem. They just need to see results and know that you care about their concerns and are taking action. Lots of good communication helps. It is a good neighbor policy that won't ever make you look bad. Just stay calm and hold your tongue if they start in with the stupid comments and threats Leslie. It won't help your birds one bit to retaliate verbally against their ignorance with sharp words and insults. Not that you would do that anyway but I know, personally and for myself, how hard it can be to hold your tongue sometimes.

Cameron


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Local human resources for your flock*

Rockie,

I don't know if you are aware of these people. I recently came upon this site again. Al seems to have been active in Long Island recently. Perhaps you can locate some neighbors to help you. 

[email protected]

Al <[email protected]


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