# training



## leeswhitebirds (May 1, 2004)

Lee here, 
i am going to post some training ideas ..ill do one at a time there are three in all. This isnt the only way to do this but it works for me i have been using these methods for years just some of my ideas on the subject ..
Lee here, 
Ybs under the age of 10 days old should be left alone for the most part it is my belief that they do fine with their parents care. At this age (10 days) the birds will begin to stand up in the nest and a person should start handling them as this makes the birds tamer. Keep in mind that brides and grooms may some day be holding them for release. During the next two weeks the YBs will begin to move more and more it is also during this time that they may wander into someone’s else’s nest area so close watch must be kept on the birds to ensure that they don’t get scalped by some jealous cock bird. During this time they will learn to eat from the feeder and go to the waterier and will be weaned from their parents care and will take a perch (this is the most stressful time for the YB and if its immune system isn’t strong then it will fall to illnesses so watch them closely) You can start to trap train healthy birds they should be about 25 to 30 days old at this point. If the bird can fly to its perch then it should be able to fly from the trap to the floor.
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More in the next post 

Trap training:
There are lots of types of traps out there I prefer the BOB type it seems to me that the birds take to it quicker, If you have the sputnik type or the door type you can glean some tips from this (I hope) haha. Keep in mind that the only control we have over the birds is food. You can’t expect a pigeon to trap if it is overfed or ill. 
When you start trap training your birds need to be on a good feeding schedule. Start by taking the birds you want to train and put them in the training release cage leave them in the cage for about 30 min this helps to settle the birds down and gets them use to the cage. Set them outside in the shade where they cant be bothered by cats /dogs etc. Place on the landing board of the loft a trap training cage this sits on the landing board and butts up against the trap the other end of the cage has a door where you can place the YB inside the cage. Place the birds 2,3,4, at a time in the cage before their feeding so they are hungry go inside put down the feed and make a feeding noise like a handful of seed in a coke can rattle this and the birds should trap through. If they don’t then go out side and gently push them through the trap. Add more birds and do the same procedure until all are through the trap. The point here is for the birds to understand that they have to trap to eat. Usually within three days they will have picked up the trapping and will trap on their own. The key here is repeat again and again and again they will learn quickly. If you have door trap or a sputnik you can put the bird through the trap as in this example however there isn’t a landing board so just manually put the birds through…After the birds have learned to trap then you can let them out to exercise. Most fanciers allow their birds out for only an hour I do this or sometimes an hour and a half. You can do this by just opening the trap and they will go out on the landing board after an hour or so close the trap when they hear you rattling the feed can they will come in. be patient these are young birds and need more time ALWAYS!! Let your birds out when they are hungry never after feeding always BEFORE!!!


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Lee,

Thank you for the information.

I have never done the "release Birds" for weddings, but I do train Homing Pigeons.

It's interesting to me that you handle the young at about ten days to get them tame. I handle mine at 7 days old, and do touch them for banding by 5th or 6th day. I start routinely picking them and cleaning their nests at 7 days. They are usually annoyed with me, even though I am around them alot, they do not get tame. I am gentle with them, and talk to them softly. They sit up and try to peck at me while making themselves look huge!

What do you do when you handle them at ten days to get them tame?

I do have pigeons that are tame, but they were hand fed from 4 days old, and they are pets.

I usually have a play pen for the babies when they are 14 days old, to get them on their own for an hour a day, on my enclosed back porch. They play in the water and learn to pick up seed and socialize with others their age. 

Treesa

[This message has been edited by Trees Gray (edited June 02, 2004).]


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## dano7 (Feb 10, 2004)

Thank you both and keep it going.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Treesa
I'm sure Lee will correct me if I'm wrong. I think with a few exceptions, when a fancier says his birds are "tame" he/she means that they are not just down right wild. As I raise youngsters, I too handle them a lot. After they are banded, they get a new nest bowl every day, sometimes twice a day if needed. After they start pooping over the side, it may be every other day. Just depends. After I wean off my babies, I put them in a pen alone for about two days, (one of our individual breeding pens) and spend a lot of time with them. As I move more youngsters into the young bird loft, say the second round, I will go in and catch them twice a day and take them out into the hall way to eat, away from the other older birds. AFter one or two days of this, when they see me standing at the door, they come running, squealing and flapping their wings and are as tame as can be. I only feed them extra until they are about 35 to 40 days old, depending on the individual bird. Once I quite letting them come out to feed in the hall way, it only take about a week and they are no longer tame. Some of them I can catch much easier than others, but NONE of them "look forward" to me handling them. LOL Even the ones that I hand raised this past year, will come to me and pick at my hand and sit on my shoulder, but when I reach for them, most of the time, they take off. I just don't believe that you can have a loft full of tame birds. Not tame in the sense that they willingly will let you hold and pet them. Just my experience for what it's worth. I think different families of birds seem to be wilder than others. We have some Jan Aardens, and no matter what, they are just wild and high strung. The father of all of these is called "Wild Child" just for that reason. He is hell on wheels when I need to catch him and ALL of his children are that way. On the other hand, I have a Sprinter bird, named "Roosevelt" and with out exeption, all of his children are calm birds and easier to catch than any of the others. I always said I didn't want a bunch of wild birds in my loft, but one of Wild Childs daughters has won 3 of 5 races this year so far, so you learn to live with it. LOL


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Thanks Lovebirds!

I thought for a minute there, I was doing something wrong! I'm glad I'm not.

I agree too, with the different strains, some are just not going to be calm, no matter how you treat them and then there are different personalities in the group, also. I've got some high strung individuals and they do tend to fly like the wind! 

My hand raised kids do come to me and will fly to my head and to my shoulders. They lived in the house until they were well over a month old. LOL

I have a youngster who was hand fed,Mikko Bryan,(he was a rescue) but he was 2 weeks old (not 4 days ol) when I got him,now that he is in the coop he runs away. He will let me pick him up, and is not afraid of me. 

It sounds like you have a delightful group of pigeons!

Thanks again.

Treesa






[This message has been edited by Trees Gray (edited June 02, 2004).]


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## leeswhitebirds (May 1, 2004)

Lee here, 
Lovebirds hit the nail on the head here,i dont think all birds can be taimed but like was said some will be calmer than others , the idea here is to just be with them and handle them ,some folks never touch their birds .I have some birds that will come to me i can hold some of mine and they will close their eyes as if in sleep and i have some that when i catch them they act as if i am going to wring their neck ! haha just depends on the birds . Older birds like 3 and 4 yrs old seem to respond better to being held if they were held at a younger age ...


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## leeswhitebirds (May 1, 2004)

Lee here, 
More on training !!

Daily exercise and training:
Now that your birds have learned to trap when you call them in to eat it is time to start distance training, there is two ways to do this 
A. You can allow the birds to range on their own .IN this method you turn your birds out at least one time a day to exercise after a time the will begin to range, by this I mean they will begin to fly in circle around the loft area. It is natural for the birds to fly an area of about five miles as this is the normal feeding range of the pigeon your birds will do this providing they aren’t let out with older birds in this situation they tend to do as the old birds do and will sit on the loft in the lounge chair and sun. The old birds know where they are don’t need to fly the normal ranging area.
B. In this situation you can force the birds to range by taking them out for short jumps and releasing them from their cage to fly back home. This is the method I use, this way I can take older birds out and they will show the newbies the way home. I start this method at about 100 feet from the loft and go from there. I make small jumps and work in all directions North South East and West. If you start at 100 feet then do this for three or four days this will get the birds use to the cage and they will begin to settle down. They will fly to the loft and usually sit there or get on the ground and peck around. After they sit a while maybe 15 min I take a flag and wave it at the birds this makes them fly again they will soon get the idea that they are out there to exercise. ALWAYS!!! ALWAYS !!! Let them out before you feed .Old trusted birds can go out anytime but Ybs need to come back in the trap when you beckon them and will do so if they are hungry. Move to ¼ mile and take an old bird with you to release. When you get to the release point let the birds sit in the cage for about 15 minutes this gives the birds time to look around and realize where they are (during this time you must look for hawks dogs and so on also make sure that the birds have a clear area to fly into, no wires, trees traffic, buildings and so on.) release the birds and they should circle around and then fly to the loft. Do this two times from this place. Move to the next place on the next day 1/4th mile out but in a different direction (work counter clockwise on the map) The birds will normally fly clockwise so if you work counter clockwise they will be flying back into the area that they have already flown. Do this until you have flown the birds from all directions and have come back to the place you started now move to the ½ mile mark work all around the compass then jump to the 1 mile range always work counter clockwise and repeat repeat, repeat that is the key .Now what you are doing here is allowing the birds to condition themselves and learn this 5 mile circle. After the 1-mile circle go to 2 miles and work around the circle then go to 4 miles work the circle then 6 miles work the circle. I will stop here and post some more in a few days or so. 
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A few things to remember. Always fly your birds hungry especially Ybs older birds will home hungry or not.10 MPH is the max for wind on training a young bird again old birds can handle 12 to 18 MPH with ease. I have had my old birds out in 25 mph winds just for training purposes, keep in mind that the altitude that they fly the winds will be higher than the ground level also 25 mph winds aren’t conductive of a good wedding or funeral for that matter. My cut off point for my Old birds is 15 MPH if I am doing a wedding or a funeral. Training in the rain is ok for old birds but Ybs need more experience (next year). Single bird training is ok after the YB has flown many miles 200 or more what I am saying here is they need experience first then all of the special training will work better and you will lose fewer birds. An old-timer told me one time “son if you don’t want to lose your birds then don’t let them out “ be pre paired for losses it will likely happen remember you are learning as well as the birds…


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## leeswhitebirds (May 1, 2004)

Lee here, 
more training !!! the last post but i will answer any questions ....

Now you can go to 8 miles work the circle then 10 miles work the circle. At this point your birds should be in good condition. Your birds should be flocking good and all should be coming home at the same time also when they get home they should sit and rest a few min then begin to peck on the ground or begin to flirt with each other and so on. If they just sit and don’t inter react with the flock then look closely at the bird and make sure it isn’t sick. When you get all the birds coming from 10-mile range you can start to change it up some…
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Change it up!!
Now lets concentrate on your farthest release point and start to work towards that. Your birds are flying and flocking good from 10 miles out from all directions and it is a good bet that they can hit that 10 mile circle from any direction meaning if they are out 15 miles they will run into terrain that they know within their normal ranging flight distance (5 miles) so we are going to use the straight line training method from this point on to all of your release points.
You are out to 10 miles, now go to 15 miles toward your farthest release point. We all know that pigeons can fly 50-60 MPH but it is a good pigeon that flies 35-45 MPH on a regular basis so count on your birds to fly at 40 MPH on their way home so from 15 miles out they will need at least 25 to 30 min to complete that. They will be home sooner in most cases but they need the 30 min in case of bad weather or other problems. Keep in mind that they are coming home to eat and will fly straight in. You should be allowing at least 2 hrs meaning that you will release 2 hrs before feeding time Also most folks wont release with less than 2 hrs before dark so this gets them use to working with the 2 hr system. Lets say that they come in from the 15 mile point in 25 to 30 min this is a good time for them if the time is shorter then they are not looking at the terrain (this may mean that they are too hungry) if it is longer than 30 min then they need to be released from that point again as they well may be lost and are still searching for the best route to fly home. 
Continue to fly in 5-mile increments towards the outer most points that you will release from until you have met your goals. You should be feeding good quality feed maybe in the 14 to 15 % protein range conditioning feed as it is called. And they need to rest a couple days a week example: fly Monday, rest Tuesday, fly Wednesday, rest Thursday, fly Friday, rest Saturday, bath on Sunday, on the days you rest the birds can be out exercising on their own if ya want. You will need to go to you farthest release point at least once a week to keep the birds in condition you can go to different directions but just keep your birds in the air on a weekly basis. This is good for the birds it also helps with breeding.

Old birds will in fact if they have been released from a point several times just hit the sky and break for home maybe wont circle, maybe will go high and just head for home. This means that the folks on the ground may not get a good show Ybs on the other hand will fly around at different heights and cross the release point maybe 3 times or more before breaking away and heading home. 

Pigeons have the intelligence of a 12-year-old child and can maintain the directions in their head for about 6 to 8 months (this varies) but I recommend that if you have to take a break in training (maybe a week or so) that you start at the place you left off from. If longer than that then maybe start from the 10-mile point… You have to learn your birds and know their limitations never ask a bird to fly more than you know they can high winds, rain snow, darkness, outside influences can dampen their skills. Weather is a big factor in our business also space weather or the C factor as it is called can dampen their skills I have some birds that I trust and have had them out in a G3 magnetic storm and they homed well on the other hand I have seen many young birds lost during a G1 or G2 storm (space weather is a science that we don’t know much about some folks don’t pay any attention to it some do I tend to believe it does affect the homing abilities of pigeons and many other animals you just have to decide what is best for your situation……..


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## dano7 (Feb 10, 2004)

Thanks for all that stuff, Lee, I have it saved. This business of space weather has to do with magnetism? Where do you get that weather in a given day and how do you evaluate it.

I suppose this homing ability (Wim Peters says all pigeons have the homing instinct but not all pigeons have homing ability)is not scientifically understood - vision, magnetite in the brain, sun direction, etc.


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## birdy (Mar 18, 2004)

Hi Lee,

Thanks for the training posts - they're great! I was not aware that pigeons generally fly in a clockwise rotation. Did you pick that up from a study of some kind? Do you know where I could get more information on the subject?

Thanks a lot!

birdy


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## leeswhitebirds (May 1, 2004)

Lee here
Space weather deals with geomagnetic storms which can change magnetics here on earth .. Magnetic north can and often does change location sometimes as much as 60 KM in as a little as an hour . Pigeons navigate in many ways one seems to be by vectoring based on the magnetic north and if it changes while they are in flight they may become disoriented ..Old experienced birds can overcome the changes and find home base Ybs on the other hand may become lost for lack of experience ....Ill post some more info on the space weather thing in the mean time here is the site from nasa http://www.sec.noaa.gov/


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## leeswhitebirds (May 1, 2004)

Lee here,
Birdy , pigeons seem to fly in a clockwise direction and we know that some fly in all directions. I will have to think where i read that info but it was a study done by a college I think cornell university. I have noticed that when on a flock setting on a release that they do indeed fly mostly in a clockwise manner . Sometimes my older birds dont circle at all they just hit the sky and head for home .. I done a funeral release with 4 birds and they didnt even circle they just cut a straight line towards home .. They had been there many times and were ready to get on home. Pigeons fly straight in for many reasons ,hunger ,fear, impending storms, hawks, and knowing where they are ...I will research this and post something later ...


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## dano7 (Feb 10, 2004)

I have read that pigeons can SEE magnetic forces as well as a much wider spectrum of color than humans.


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## viper (Jun 6, 2004)

Thank you all for the great information!


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## leeswhitebirds (May 1, 2004)

Lee here, 
Pigeons can indeed see color that we cant and also hear in sub audable tones. The pigeon in your back yard can hear the waves breaking on both coasts they also can see great distances and have the ability to retain land features for years to come.I once sold a woman i California some breeding stock. I warned her that they must never be trained to fly in her business as they may not homr to her loft . To make a long story short she did that very thing and two pigeons came up missing ,they homed here to my loft some 2080 miles it took them most part of 4 days . i have since shipped them back to her . The story here is i think ,homing pigeons know how to home some do better than others some dont want to home and some die trying to find home. These birds were not trained to fly long distances they were however bred for distance (Pletinckx/Mexican Janssens cross). The birds were for the most part just breeders in my loft i never used them for my business and therefore i never trained them to home from any distance. I dont keep prisoners so they have the oportunity to go out everyday and all they knew was the 10 mile circle around my loft . Our birds have the ability to see better than we do they can hear better they can vector on the magnetic north and they use their memory to retain terain features . They are amazing for sure ......


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## viper (Jun 6, 2004)

That is indeed amazing!


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## dano7 (Feb 10, 2004)

Lee,I heard of a training method where, after the ybs come home from a short location, you make each individual bird come home from that location solo - that way they don't become followers instead of figuring it out for themselves - being leaders. Is this a good/necessary step?

[This message has been edited by dano7 (edited June 07, 2004).]


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## leeswhitebirds (May 1, 2004)

Lee here,
Dano, I do train my birds in solo because some of my releases are in fact solo i mean single bird at a funeral, most weddings have at least 2 birds, The solo training should be done after the bird is somewhat experienced , If i were training for a race then i would do the solo thing at the break away point Lots of races are lost at the break away point i mean young birds are drawn along with the flock they may figure out that they are overflown and they may not.. Most of my solos are 2 yr old birds ....hope this helps


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