# Sick, thin bird



## NitaS (May 26, 2007)

Haven't posted in a while, just reading, but I now have a sick bird. She's been thin for about 2 weeks. 
So far I have wormed, given a does of "Foy's All-in-One", which is for treatment of coccidiosis, canker, works and respiratory issues
Currently the only thing she is getting is ProBios in her water.
Her appetite is good and she consumes quite a bit of grit.
Her poop is soft, but not runny and not green. Kind of brown.
I have her isolated from the other birds.
Current meds I have on hand ar Aureomycin and Tetracycline. 
None of my other birds are sick.
Can anyone provide any suggestions on further treatment, please?


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

NitaS said:


> Haven't posted in a while, just reading, but I now have a sick bird. She's been thin for about 2 weeks.
> So far I have wormed, given a does of "Foy's All-in-One", which is for treatment of coccidiosis, canker, works and respiratory issues
> Currently the only thing she is getting is ProBios in her water.
> Her appetite is good and she consumes quite a bit of grit.
> ...


you say you gave a dose..? I thought they got that in the water for 7 or 10 days or something like that. what I would do is let the meds clear out and then take a fecal sample to the vet and check her for bacteria ratio, and worms if they find something then treat for that specific thing, you might need something stronger for a particuar thing. if she comes up ok, then maybe she just needs some TLC and rest and time to fatten up. vitamins and a good diet with a few more fatty seeds. I would watch the grit as with some antibios they say to withhold grit.


----------



## NitaS (May 26, 2007)

Sorry I wasn't very clear on the All-In-One. I gave her the dosage according to the instructions, which was 2 tsp per gallon of water for 5 days. I ended that last week. 
She is fluffed up and keeps her tail down. She refused to eat alone in her cage, so I let her out with the other birds only to eat and she's always the last one done. She goes back in her cage then since the other birds gang up on her.
She is consuming alot of red grit.
No signs of canker


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

When you say you have given a "dose" of Foy's 4 in 1, does that mean the full 7 day treatment or just one days worth. 
If that's the case, then you can't expect to see any difference or improvement with just one dose. You have to follow the recommendations for treatment, and whether you're using the powder in the water or the tablets, the directions are for a 7 day program.


----------



## NitaS (May 26, 2007)

Any ideas on what may be the problem? She didn't have babies this year. She's about 4 years old and had babies in prior years.


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

NitaS said:


> Sorry I wasn't very clear on the All-In-One. I gave her the dosage according to the instructions, which was 2 tsp per gallon of water for 5 days. I ended that last week.
> She is fluffed up and keeps her tail down. She refused to eat alone in her cage, so I let her out with the other birds only to eat and she's always the last one done. She goes back in her cage then since the other birds gang up on her.
> She is consuming alot of red grit.
> No signs of canker


ok, good, is she due to lay eggs? does she have a mate? could be something going on with the egg laying process. do you give calcium?


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

NitaS said:


> Sorry I wasn't very clear on the All-In-One. I gave her the dosage according to the instructions, which was 2 tsp per gallon of water for 5 days. I ended that last week.
> She is fluffed up and keeps her tail down. She refused to eat alone in her cage, so I let her out with the other birds only to eat and she's always the last one done. She goes back in her cage then since the other birds gang up on her.
> She is consuming alot of red grit.
> No signs of canker





Lovebirds said:


> When you say you have given a "dose" of Foy's 4 in 1, does that mean the full 7 day treatment or just one days worth.
> If that's the case, then you can't expect to see any difference or improvement with just one dose. You have to follow the recommendations for treatment, and whether you're using the powder in the water or the tablets, the directions are for a 7 day program.


I guess we were posting at the same time. Got it now.


----------



## NitaS (May 26, 2007)

She does have a mate. 
I do not give calcium, but have Foy's Pigeon Builder for the water


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

NitaS said:


> She does have a mate.
> I do not give calcium, but have Foy's Pigeon Builder for the water


It does not say anything about calcium in the list online, so with her eating all that grit, Im thinking she needs a calcium boost, she may have an egg in there. I would give her a calciim 500 mg tab with vit D, some sunlight, and a warm bath may help her if she does have a problem going on. in other words treat like she is egg bound, and also do the fecal at the vet just to check.


----------



## NitaS (May 26, 2007)

I will pick up the calcium tomorrow. I'll also call the vet, and I assume they will be able to do the fecal check even though it's not an avian vet.
I put her outside in the sun over the weekend and tried to get her to bath, but she didn't want in the water. 
She is pooping, but the last 2 days I had to wipe her butt. The poop wasn't hard, and I thought maybe she was just to weak to push it the whole way out.
So I shouldn't give her any antibiotics at this point?


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

NitaS said:


> I will pick up the calcium tomorrow. I'll also call the vet, and I assume they will be able to do the fecal check even though it's not an avian vet.
> I put her outside in the sun over the weekend and tried to get her to bath, but she didn't want in the water.
> She is pooping, but the last 2 days I had to wipe her butt. The poop wasn't hard, and I thought maybe she was just to weak to push it the whole way out.
> So I shouldn't give her any antibiotics at this point?


I would not give any meds untill the fecal is run, a regular vet can run it, to check for bacteria and worm infestation. she may just be just old and having a hard time with her reproduction, or something internal is going on. give the calcium, you will have to put her in the warm water, that would be good also to clean up her rear end. she may benifit from a warm heating pad on low under some newspaper too., untill you see what the fecal is, I would just give her some TLC untill then..... and the calcium.


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Not if you are going to have the vet do a fecal.


----------



## NitaS (May 26, 2007)

Thanks so much for your help. I never thought about her being egg-bound, but it seems logical now, especially with the poop thing!
Just one last thing to bug you with. Do I crush up the calcium tablet and put it on her food or do I give her the tablet, broken up?


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

NitaS said:


> Thanks so much for your help. I never thought about her being egg-bound, but it seems logical now, especially with the poop thing!
> Just one last thing to bug you with. Do I crush up the calcium tablet and put it on her food or do I give her the tablet, broken up?


I would cut it in half and then just put it down the back of the throat, she should swallow it. you might want to roll her in a towel if you don't have anyone to hold her for you.


----------



## NitaS (May 26, 2007)

Thanks again Spirit Wings for all your help. I'll let you know how she does


----------



## FloridaLuv (Dec 19, 2008)

Just am wondering with all the meds and treatments have you given her a good probiotic? I wish her well, poor baby!


----------



## NitaS (May 26, 2007)

I put ProBios in last night's water.
Had a fecal check done today. Took her sample and from the other 2 lofts. Some Coccidia shows up, but no other parasites.
Was told by the vet to give Amrpolium. She is not an avian vet. 
I do not have this med on hand, but do have Aureomycin. After searching the internet I haven't found out whether Coccidia is a bacterial medicine and if this will work. I can go to Tractor Supply tomorrow for the Amprolium.
Also picked up calcium tablets and will give her one tonight.
Not sure whether I give her the calcium and treat her also for the coccidia.
I'm thinking along the lines that she is also egg-bound, so my predicament is what do I treat her for first?


----------



## santhosh_pigeons (May 29, 2002)

Hi there
give your birds fried gram when treating with probiotics..... it helps absorb more

I have had problems with my birds laying eggs....
calcium...... tabs 500 mg never thought of that ......been giving grit and other broken egg shells and ostyer shells......I will try the calcium
I think you should treat for the coccidia if your bird is losing weight..... all birds have coccidia but to treat or not depends upon weather it is causing unusual poops and weight loss....

And one more thing DOES COCCIDIA CAUSE PROBLEMS WITH EGG LAYING ??


----------



## NitaS (May 26, 2007)

gave her a warm bath, which she seemed to like. sitting here holding her for some extra warmth and shes very alert and looking around. when my husband gets home ill give her a syringe of water with the aeromycin. she hasnt seemed to be drinking much so i think she needs the water anyway. will keep her in the house tonight with a heating pad and if she is egg-bound hopefully that will help her. i'll hold off on the calcium and grit until we finish the coccidia treatment. appreciate anyones input on whether this sounds like a good plan


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

NitaS said:


> gave her a warm bath, which she seemed to like. sitting here holding her for some extra warmth and shes very alert and looking around. when my husband gets home ill give her a syringe of water with the aeromycin. she hasnt seemed to be drinking much so i think she needs the water anyway. will keep her in the house tonight with a heating pad and if she is egg-bound hopefully that will help her. i'll hold off on the calcium and grit until we finish the coccidia treatment. appreciate anyones input on whether this sounds like a good plan


please give her the calcium, it is fine, will not hurt anything and IF she is egg bound it should be done ASAP. also treat for the coccidia of course.


----------



## NitaS (May 26, 2007)

OK. So even though the Aeromycin says to withhold grit I should still give her the calcium pill? The calcium bottle says its from natural oyster shell, which I thought was basically the same ingredient as grit. Will it not counter the affects of the medicine?


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

NitaS said:


> OK. So even though the Aeromycin says to withhold grit I should still give her the calcium pill? The calcium bottle says its from natural oyster shell, which I thought was basically the same ingredient as grit. Will it not counter the affects of the medicine?


my thinking if she is eating grit like crazy and holding her tail down, it says egg problem, that can be fatal. cocci can be treated, so to err on the side of caution, I would give the calcium to help her muscles to contract so the maybe egg can get out. not saying That is a fact, just if it is...she can die if it does not come out and it breaks inside her or needs to harden so it can come out. The whole flock needs to be treated at he same time for the cocci.


----------



## NitaS (May 26, 2007)

OK thanks. I'm giving her the calcium pill. I already cut it in half and filed smooth the edges to make it easier to go down. Guess I didn't realize the seriousness of the eggbinding!
Got the pill down followed by a drink of water
This is my first sick bird, so sorry for so many questions


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

NitaS said:


> OK thanks. I'm giving her the calcium pill. I already cut it in half and filed smooth the edges to make it easier to go down. Guess I didn't realize the seriousness of the eggbinding!
> Got the pill down followed by a drink of water
> This is my first sick bird, so sorry for so many questions


well I hope it is just cocci, keep an eye on her, if she is still holding that tail down, another warm bath may be in order. quiet warm heating pad too. if no egg say tomorrow or thurs. perhaps she just has cocci to overcome.


----------



## NitaS (May 26, 2007)

Thanks again, I have a large cage and will keep her in the house tonight on a heating pad. She's still in here with me wrapped in a towel. Very alert, but seems perfectly content in her towel!
I'll wait a couple days to see if she improves and then start the cocci treatment on all of them.


----------



## NitaS (May 26, 2007)

*Update on bird*

Well, she's still hanging in there. Her condition is about the same. She hasn't laid an egg after numerous hot baths, heating pad and calcium pill. I mentioned her to Jerry at Foy's Pigeons the other day when I called about an order. His thought was that if she was egg-bound she would have died by now. I began the antibiotics 3 days ago on all the birds. I still bring her in the house at night on the heating pad but keep her in the cage when she's in the loft since the others still beat up on her.
She's still very alert in the house. 
Also got some corn in the hopes of fattening her up. Wasn't able to get any flax seed locally since that's high in fat. 
She continues to get poop stuck on her bottom and I bath her frequently to clean her up. It's still soft poop, so I don't know if she's just too weak to push it the whole way out.
If there are any suggestions on anything else I can do to get some weight on her I'd appreciate it. Thought about feeding her some Exact. I have a scale so I'll weigh her frequently.


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Nita,

Maybe an x-ray would help identify the problem. I hate to even think about tumours, but that is a possibility.

Cynthia


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Feefo said:


> Hi Nita,
> 
> Maybe an x-ray would help identify the problem. I hate to even think about tumours, but that is a possibility.
> 
> Cynthia


that was going to be another guess, if her tail is down then something is going on in her rear area, or just hoping she needs time on the meds to clear her of the cocci, flax seed I have heard can make the stool loose, perhaps you can try some safflower seeds, you may be interested in this product in the link, not sure how much it is but I love harrison's products. also, It is very heart warming how you are going the extra mile for this sick bird.
http://www.harrisonsbirdfoods.com/products/hpm.html


----------



## NitaS (May 26, 2007)

Just checked on her and it seems her pooping seems to be improving. She had a couple poops in the bottom of her cage and seems to be less of the white slimy stuff than yesteday. I'm hoping the meds are starting to kick in. I'll call the vet on Monday and see about an x-ray and if she doesn't continue to improve I'll get her in there for one.
She is one of my original birds - one of the best fliers I have. I always use she and her mate for my bride and groom releases. And they always make it home the fastest. Guess she won't be doing any releases this year. I want to make sure she is back in good health before I risk sending her out.


----------



## NitaS (May 26, 2007)

Well it's been a month now and my girl is still hanging in there. She is still separated from the other birds as she still isn't back to her normal self. We have been through a round of antibiotics, then probiotics and today was her third day of pedialyte. 
She seems to be slowly gaining weight and still has a good appetite and her poops look pretty good. Nothing slimy in them any more. I still have to give her frequent baths to keep her bottom clean.
She's still pretty weak and not getting around well. I keep her food, water and grit close by.
I'm just puzzled as to what is/was wrong with her. As I said, she seems to very slowly getting better, but I just don't know what else to do for her? I still have no symptoms of illness in any of my othe birds.


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Did you ever worm her?


----------



## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Glad she is gaining some weight. This slow progress can be frustrating as you work through all possible problems.


----------



## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Hugs to you NitaS- Well done, its good to hear that shes been hanging in there 

Just reading through this thread, I noticed that she tested positive for Coccidia but she wasn't given Baycox? 

To me it sounds like the coccidia parasites have been somewhat affected by other drugs you've been giving your pigeon, but not enough to kill them altogether. Also Cocci parasites develop resistance to drugs after a while, which is while baycox needs to be to used.

I'd strongly suggest getting her onto Baycox immedaitely.

*Coccidiosis
By Dr. Colin Walker B.Sc. B.V.Sc. M.A.C.V.S (avian health)

In my last article I discussed the most common disease stopping good pigeons from performing well during racing, namely wet canker. This article discusses a second problem that can also do this, coccidiosis. Here in a nut shell is how to stop this still surprisingly common problem from affecting your birds race performance.



What is it?

Coccidia are a group of parasitic organisms that have the amazing ability to reproduce themselves both sexually and asexually in various organs throughout the body. There are lots of different types. Some reproduce in the kidney, others in the liver, some are carried throughout the body in red blood cells, but the common one that infects racing pigeons affects the bowel.



Basically what happens is that the organism releases eggs that come out in the droppings. These have to sit in the environment for at least a couple of days to become infective. They do however become infective quicker in damp conditions. Once infective, if a pigeon accidentally swallows one of these eggs, they move down into the bowel and hatch. In the common type of coccidia in pigeons four “larvae” come out of each egg. These then burrow into the bowel wall where initially they reproduce asexually –essentially they just keep dividing so that two become four become eight etc. After a while these “larvae” differentiate into males and females. These then reproduce sexually resulting in the formation of eggs. These eggs then rupture back into the bowel before passing out of the body in the droppings. In this way the lifecycle is completed.



What is the significance of coccidiosis?

When the parasites are reproducing in the wall of the bowel they damage it. This means that the bowel cannot digest food and absorb nutrients properly. Affected youngsters usually lose a bit of weight and start to become a bit quiet. Often in race birds all that is seen is a loss of form. Powder down feather drop stops and some birds will develop a ‘pica’- pecking at perches or eating droppings apparently to source the nutrients they are missing.



Of equal importance for race birds is that the inflamed bowel wall actually weeps inflammatory fluid into the bowel so that the pigeon looses tissue protein and blood from its system. When we draw blood for testing from birds with coccidiosis we find that both the red blood cell count and the level of total protein in the blood are low. Having low total protein causes absolute fatigue even after moderate exercise while, of course, red blood cells carry oxygen throughout the body. Pigeons with coccidiosis therefore become breathless and tired after moderate exercise. Even low infections have drastic effects on performance and returns particularly on low velocity or distance flys.



What to do?

As with wet canker, pigeons need exposure to coccidia when young to form a natural immunity. Repeatedly treating young growing healthy pigeons makes no sense. Certainly this will mean that they have no coccidia but at one stage treatment will have to stop. As they would not have had any exposure, their immunity would be low and they would in fact be quite vulnerable to the disease as adult birds. Regularly treating in this way simply interrupts the ongoing exposure they need to form a strong natural immunity. Keeping the loft clean and dry will limit exposure and in most cases make treatment not necessary



If coccidiosis levels rise in young birds it usually makes some of them a bit quiet and fluffed and some will develop a green or watery dropping. If some of your young birds show these symptoms don’t assume it is coccidiosis. Get a vet with avian experience to check some dropping under the microscope. If it is diagnosed and the level has risen to the point where it is compromising their development then the birds should be treated. In young birds treatment is only given if the parasite is causing clinical disease and compromising the bird’s development. In race birds the situation is entirely different. Fanciers should have their birds droppings checked several weeks before the first race and if any coccidia are present the birds should be treated. It is good to let the growing young pigeon form as strong a natural immunity as possible but then get the birds droppings checked before racing to make sure no infection is present. If coccidia are present the team should then be treated to make sure the season is started with healthy birds.



In summary allow a controlled exposure to the disease in young birds through maintaining a clean dry loft and avoiding treatment unless the parasite is actually making the birds sick. In most cases, you will find when the birds are checked prior to the first race that they are clear of the disease, having formed a strong natural immunity. This however should not be assumed and checking is essential. Any residual infection should be treated prior to racing so that the birds can give their best.



Monitoring the disease through racing

Through racing the level of coccidia in competitive birds should be absolute zero. Droppings should be regularly checked under a microscope throughout the season. When the problem is identified it should be treated. The eggs are readily visible when magnified a hundred times. It seems that as little as one egg on every second or third x100 microscope field is enough to compromise performance.



Treatment

There are a whole range of coccidia treatments available. Many are pharmaceutical dinosaurs and should be discarded. The one I commonly use and recommend is toltrazuril

1. toltrazuril

Toltrazuril is sold under the brand name “Baycox”. The reason I like it is that it only has to be given for two days to be effective and it is very safe.” Baycox” only requires a treatment course of two days. This means that if the condition is diagnosed early in the week the whole course can be given before the next race. The drug works in an amazing way. It substitutes for vitamin B. This means the parasite “thinks” that toltrazuril is actually vitamin B and takes it into its system but once inside the drug then kills the coccidia. Another advantage of “ Baycox “is that it can be combined with any other treatement eg. for canker or respiritary infection etc. but not with vitamin supplements that contain vitamin B. Supplementing with vitamin B simultaneously overrides the effect of the drug. Interestingly human coccidiosis is common, apparently in people with AIDS. A medico friend of mine told me that toltrazuril is used here.

The dose of “Baycox’ is 6mg/kg. As the solution is 25mg/ml this works out at 3mls/1L of drinking water. This solution is made fresh each day and provided as the sole drinking water for two days in a row. As I mentioned, any other medication can be mixed with it except B group vitamins.

2. amprolium

Sold under a range of brand names. An effective drug that has the disadvantage of having to be given for five days to clear an infection.

3. sulphur antibiotics

Sulphur based antibotics such as trimethoprim/ sulphdiazine do have some action against coccidia but they are essentially antibacterial drugs that have the side affect of also interfering with coccidia reproduction. Their anti bacterial property is usually a disadvantage because they tend to kill the good bacteria in the bowel.



As with most drugs these days, resistance to all the above medications is seen and a successful treatment can never be guaranteed even if the drug is used correctly. Because of this it isvery important to check the droppings after treatment to make sure it has worked.



Interestingly during the race season, pigeons often seem to get into a negative disease cascade so that if one disease appears it often weakens the birds predisposing them to other diseases. At my clinic we often find that birds with coccidia also have wet canker. Many of my clients are at a distance from the clinic and even though it can be easy to mail in droppings it can be more difficult to bring in live birds. I find that birds that have coccidia in their droppings often have wet canker. And so if you do mail droppings into your avian vet and he/she finds coccidia and it is not possible to take pigeons in for a crop flush [to check for wet canker ] do be sensitive to the fact that if they have coccidia, wet caker may also be involved. If necessary the “Turbosole” (for wet canker) and “Baycox” can be mixed in the same drinking water



*


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I had an interesting experience with a little hen. She was very thin and was having difficulty standing.
Within a couple of hours, on a heating pad, she laid an egg. Great...I thought...that's what was going on...it all made sense...wrong!
Two days later, she still was unable to stand...wouldn't eat and so I took her poop to the vet for a fecal. It was loaded with bad bacteria and so I started her on baytril. Fourteen days later, I was still hand feeding and she couldn't stand. After 5 more days, I had another fecal done...this time coccidia! After 7 days on Albon oral suspension she was standing and eating on her own. Then she started to throw up.
Guess what the next fecal revealed?...Round worms...Oh my!
It took 5 weeks to get the little girl healthy again. 
The point to this story is that often there is more than 1 thing going on with a sick bird...you must treat one thing before the next thing reveals itself. 
Worms or worm eggs for example don't show up in every dropping. It can be utterly maddening!


----------



## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Hiya Charis! I hope you are well



> The point to this story is that often there is more than 1 thing going on with a sick bird...you must treat one thing before the next thing reveals itself.


Yes, that's the same kind of info I've come across again and again too....basically if one thing goes wrong, then it sets off a bunch of secondary problems  Poor little guys, its so rough for them when they get sick.

But in this case, the bird was diagnosed with Coccidia by a vet, and has remained untreated (for coccidia). I think this would be the first thing to treat. Only 2 doses are needed over 3 days; its worth a shot, even if there are other problems.


----------



## NitaS (May 26, 2007)

Thanks so much for your input. I appreciate it. I did worm her in the spring. I treated her with Aeromycin, which I had on hand and read in the Foy's catalog that it was used to treat coccidiosis. This was the first antibiotic she's ever been on.
Anyway, I will call the vet tomorrow and see if they have the Baycox on hand and pick some up, otherwise I'll order it. I don't see it in the Foy's catalog but many other drugs, including Sulmet for treating coccidiosis. If my animal vet doesn't have this drug is there an alternative from the catalog I could use?
I just feel like I've given the poor thing so many drugs at this point so I thought I'd do the Pedialyte to see if it helped her get some strength back.
Thanks again.
Nita


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Ask your vet for Albon suspension rather than baycox. The albon is a 7 day treatment.
When you wormed, did you do the follow up worming 10-14 days later? Was the worming an individual treatment? That always works the best.


----------



## NitaS (May 26, 2007)

I used the wormer that you put in their water, Wormout Gel. I admit I took the easy way out since I have 47 birds! I didn't follow up after the initial treatment, so I guess I didn't do it properly. The fecal samples were taken after the worming, so I thought I was OK. Would the wormer have taken care of the coccidia?
Do you think I should worm again individually? I see numerous other worming products in Foy's catalog. Many of them are to put in water, but I see one tablet product, Wormout Tablets. Your thoughts?


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

The wormer would NOT have taken care of the coccidia. 
Worms and their eggs don't show up in every poop so you can have a fecal that is negative when the bird actually does have worms.
It is really important to re-worm 10-14 days after the initial worming.
I have not used the wormout gel. Many members think it's a fine product. I use ivermectin and treat individually because then I know all the birds have gotten the medicine they need. It's not easy catching them all and so I do it once it's gotten dark. 
With your sick bird at least, I would treat her individually.


----------



## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

NitaS said:


> I used the wormer that you put in their water, Wormout Gel. I admit I took the easy way out since I have 47 birds! I didn't follow up after the initial treatment, so I guess I didn't do it properly. The fecal samples were taken after the worming, so I thought I was OK. Would the wormer have taken care of the coccidia?
> Do you think I should worm again individually? I see numerous other worming products in Foy's catalog. Many of them are to put in water, but I see one tablet product, Wormout Tablets. Your thoughts?


Hi NitaS,

Its hard with wormout gel because it tastes so horrible for them . I tried dosing some wild birds last year after they became infected with gape worm, after their first clutch of babies all died in agony from the worms (it was so horrible!) I firstly tried dosing the parents by mixing the wormout gel in with their food, but at the correct dosage they wouldn't touch it. So I tried giving them the full dose in a much smaller doses, divided over a week... I read that poultry are sometimes treated this way with wormout gel.

Anyway this seemed to work because the gapeworm cleared up. Its a very safe wormer too.

PS. You can order the Baycox from Australian pigeon company, only 2 doses are needed. Its very different to other drugs so your little one would not have built up a resistance to it.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f14/baycox-for-coccidia-27009.html


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Bella...the Albon oral suspension is prescription and works much better than the Baycox IMO, as I have not had the best luck treating with Baycox. Most vets have it in their clinic.


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

yes deworm would be the next step if she is not back to normal, If she does not improve in the next few weeks, then you may be looking at x-rays....


----------



## NitaS (May 26, 2007)

Does it matter which I do first the coccidia treatment or the worming for the sick one, and should I treat all of them for coccidia again? As I said previously none of my other birds are displaying any signs of illness. 
I will order the individual pills to worm again. I still have one baby (woops!), so should I not worm or treat for coccidia until it's weaned?


----------



## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Charis said:


> Bella...the Albon oral suspension is prescription and works much better than the Baycox IMO, as I have not had the best luck treating with Baycox. Most vets have it in their clinic.


Hi Charis, 

Sulpha drugs like Albon sound good if they work. But Avian vets like Colin Walker warn against the high rate of resistance to Sulpha drugs, and I've seen posts from members here saying pretty much the same thing as he does. Here is how he explains it on his web site: http://www.auspigeonco.com.au/Articles/Race_Form_Part2.html
*
3. sulphur antibiotics

Sulphur based antibotics such as trimethoprim/ sulphdiazine do have some action against coccidia but they are essentially antibacterial drugs that have the side affect of also interfering with coccidia reproduction. Their anti bacterial property is usually a disadvantage because they tend to kill the good bacteria in the bowel.

As with most drugs these days, resistance to all the above medications is seen and a successful treatment can never be guaranteed even if the drug is used correctly. Because of this it isvery important to check the droppings after treatment to make sure it has worked.*


----------



## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

*Does it matter which I do first the coccidia treatment or the worming for the sick one, and should I treat all of them for coccidia again? As I said previously none of my other birds are displaying any signs of illness.*

Dear NitaS, If I've followed your posts correctly, you had a vet perform a fecal, and the pigeon tested positive for Coccidia , and showed no sign of worms? (A fecal would have shown worms if they were there) . 

If that is the case, then it seems logical to start with what you know...treat it for Coccidia. Coccidia is very serious and can cause a horrible & slow death so it probably needs treating sooner rather than later. If you wind up using Sulpha drugs, just be aware that Coccidia parasites can be resistant to them  

I think there is a lot of hope for this little one NitaS.


----------



## NitaS (May 26, 2007)

I started her on the Albion suspension. I was able to pick it up at the vets. I visited the Australian Pigeon Supply website and I was unable to purchase. It said you must be a vet or a client of Dr. Walker, so I gave up on that. I tried doing a search for purchasing Baycox and the site I came up with was at a cost of $244. To tell you the truth, this is way out of my price range. I work for PA state government and due to non-passage of the state budget I continue to work without getting a paycheck! I'm crossing my fingers that the Albion suspension works for her. If not, maybe someone can give me some other suggestions.


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

It will take care of the coccidia.


----------



## NitaS (May 26, 2007)

Thanks so much for your help Charis! I'll keep the post updated on her progress. I'm giving her .14ml for 5 days. Sound right?


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

How big is she? That sounds a little high.


----------



## NitaS (May 26, 2007)

I weighed her on a postal scale and it said 11.4, which I presume to be ounces


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

The dosage I have for that size bird is 0.8 for 5-7 days.


----------



## NitaS (May 26, 2007)

Thanks I'll give her the lower dose tomorrow. That's what the vet told me to give her, but since she's not an avian vet I trust your instructions more!!


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

NitaS said:


> Thanks I'll give her the lower dose tomorrow. That's what the vet told me to give her, but since she's not an avian vet I trust your instructions more!!


The instructions I gave you are the ones given to me by my vet and she does treat a lot of birds.


----------



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

*Let's Check The Math/Dosage Please ..*

I think there is some serious confusion about the Albon dose .. 0.14 is much smaller than 0.8 .. Charis and Nita, please post back so we can get this figured correctly. Albon is sulfadimethoxine for those that need the generic to research. What is the strength of the Albon that you have Nita?

Terry


----------



## NitaS (May 26, 2007)

The vet did not write the strength on the bottle. I'll call her tomorrow morning and see what the strength is. Since she isn't an avian vet, I'd like to get the correct dosing from you guys.


----------



## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

I hope it goes well for you NitaS


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

To me, it sounds mostly like a chronic infection of the oviduct. Read this one:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f6/ruptured-oviduct-a-case-history-10686.html

Pidgey


----------



## NitaS (May 26, 2007)

Thanks for your input Pidgey. I don't notice any swelling in her abdomen. She doesn't stand at his point. She manages to get herself to her food and water. I give her frequent baths to clean her bottom off.
If you don't mind my asking, what ballpark figure would you put on the cost of her overall treatment? 
There is an avian vet about 40 miles from me.
I don't know if you noticed in my previous posts, but although I'm still working, PA state employees aren't getting paid until our budget is passed, so money is VERY tight right now!
SHould I continue to treat her with the Albon suspension? I called the vet today and confirmed that it's 5%.
Thanks,
Nita


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

NitaS said:


> Thanks for your input Pidgey. I don't notice any swelling in her abdomen. She doesn't stand at his point. She manages to get herself to her food and water. I give her frequent baths to clean her bottom off.
> If you don't mind my asking, what ballpark figure would you put on the cost of her overall treatment?
> There is an avian vet about 40 miles from me.
> I don't know if you noticed in my previous posts, but although I'm still working, PA state employees aren't getting paid until our budget is passed, so money is VERY tight right now!
> ...


I would leave a message for the avian vet to call you back, and then tell her/him what is going on and get an estimate of the cost, and what they would want to do, somethings can wait other may not, if you can get the basics and save a bit that may be an option, just need to talk to them.


----------



## NitaS (May 26, 2007)

I'll take your advice and do that. Do you suppose I should give her another dose of the Albon tonight? Won't hurt anything will it since she did test for coccidia? If you think I should I'll give her .8.
I'm so glad everyone on here is so helpful. Thank you so much!


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

NitaS said:


> I'll take your advice and do that. Do you suppose I should give her another dose of the Albon tonight? Won't hurt anything will it since she did test for coccidia? If you think I should I'll give her .8.
> I'm so glad everyone on here is so helpful. Thank you so much!


I would follow thru on the treatment for cocci, give for the amount of days you are supposed to without skipping any days. and go from there.


----------



## jaipets (Feb 4, 2011)

hi NitaS pls post update what happened to this bird


----------



## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

jaipets said:


> hi NitaS pls post update what happened to this bird


Hardly likely since this thread is from 2009


----------



## jaipets (Feb 4, 2011)

yes i understand but just like know what happened


----------

