# PMV Symptoms anmd calcium



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I am ashamed to say that I missed a symptom of PMV in a pigeon in the feral flock that I feed!

I had scattered the seed and they were all eating happily. The younger ones in particular tend to run around a bit instead of staying in one spot but there was one that was running around rather more desperately than is normal. I just thought it was cute, put down extra seed and hurried off to work







. The next day the same pigeon showed distinct signs of PMV, it couldn't pick up seed or even control its neck sufficently to aim in the general direction of a pile of seed. I realised then that the initial despair was probably the result of food deprivation and something that I will have to be more aware of in future.

Sadly, even though its flight was erratic by that time it managed to get away and it wasn't until the next day that I caught it. I gave it a deep dish of seed and another of water and although it had some difficulty manouvering its head into the dish it eventually mastered that and ate and drank well.

Reti advised me to give it extra calcium so I added some drops to its water and within a day it had shown significant improvement!

I caught it on Monday and now it is sitting calmly in its cage, able to eat and drink with very little difficulty and only occasionally turning in circles.

Pigeons with PMV are generally no trouble at all to take care of. They seem to appreciate the rest and easy access to food and water. Even though they must be kept in isolation (I provide them with a mirror so they don't feel completely alone) I consider them the easiest of my patients.

Cynthia


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Cynthia,

Thank you for sharing this story with us.

It has reinforced what I suspected, that calcium not only relaxes muscle, but calms the nerves. 

Treesa


----------



## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

Cynthia,

You are doing such a good job with the PMV infected pigeons, with all your PMV recovered birds you just prove that this disease is controllable and treatable in most cases! .. I wish I had the space to care for them as you do!!

Mary


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

You do enough as it is Mary!

I am fortunate in that I live on my own and can keep the healthy pigheons in the aviary, but even so I get very short of space. 

Cynthia


----------



## raynjudy (Aug 22, 2000)

Judy and I have seen over night improvement giving Calcionate Syrup to rescues. 

The Tums & Pedialyte thingy--Tums and water may suffice--has proved effective in several cases for members here.

Calcium is a vital electrolyte for pigeon neuro-muscular function. A depletion of the mineral can leave a pigeon literally paralyzed, and eventually prove fatal.

--Ray


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Thanks Ray, I think that I will have to start sprinkling some grit for the ferals that I feed. I wonder if sometimes calcium deficiency mimics some of the symptoms of PMV? 

Cynthia


----------



## raynjudy (Aug 22, 2000)

"I wonder if sometimes calcium deficiency mimics some of the symptoms of PMV?"

Sure! That's sound logic! Of course, PMV will manifest other symptoms, but I could easily see this happening.

Once, a few years back, when times were particularly hard, Bernie began acting strangely...

At one point, while coming down the stairs to join us, he actually fell! We were heartbroken!









My original post on this matter is somewhere in the archive of this web site--it talks of friends and "Silver Bullets".

We began treatment with Baytril and Calcionate Syrup, at the behest of a member here, and our baby boy, once again, bounced back!









With no time or funds for extensive investigation or lab work, we fired two Silver Bullets at the problem, and won our baby back! That was years ago--and he's still here!









Some criticized the measure, calling it sloppy science, and an abuse of medication--it was the pathology / treatment thingy, that was an issue with a few.

While I know something about genetic drift and mutation, those things are academic in my everyday world--Bernie is not! 

Saving that little fella was my singular concern, and I would not hesitate, under similar circumstances, to use Silver Bullets again!

PIGEONS FOREVER!!!

--Ray


----------



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Sometimes you just have to go with your instincts. Ray's story proves that.
Reti


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

To tell you the truth, Ray, any of the vets I know would prescribe an antibiotic in the same circumstances and if that didn't work they would try another! I suspect that the "abuse of medication" issue really arises in the meat production industry where big bucks take precedence over all other issues









I doubt that there will ever be sufficient information on pigeon diseases for us to be able to get a firm diagnosis in every case before medicating. I can understand that any research will have to concentrate on disease prevention, particularly when it comes to dealing with viruses, but that does not help feral pigeon rescue. So we have to deal with the case that we have in front of us using what information and knowledge we have available, and as Reti says our instincts, which are sparked by love.

Cynthia


----------



## EarthaPidge (Feb 5, 2004)

"Pigeons with PMV are generally no trouble at all to take care of. They seem to appreciate the rest and easy access to food and water. Even though they must be kept in isolation (I provide them with a mirror so they don't feel completely alone) I consider them the easiest of my patients."

WOW! I want your PMV patients! From what I have seen, there are many different levels of infection and severity of clinical signs with this disease and depending where the sick bird falls, your job may be "easy" as you describe (feeding from wide bowls, etc) or it may be extremely exausting and time consuming as it was in my PMV bird Appaloosa's case. 

Even when she wasn't showing signs (at the very beginning) she could not eat on her own and in no time, she was showing severe neurologic signs and still could not eat on her own. In her case, she would hit the bowl of seed but could not pick up or swallow the seed. 

Just a reminder for others who might come across PMV birds, thatyou have to constantly check their crops to make sure they are actually consuming the seed. Appaloosa did not eat for approximately 16 weeks which tranlates into over 300 tube feedings. So she was anything but easy, so when people call me with PMV questions in the future, I will be sure to inform them of the wide range of care intensity that may be required. Many days I had to bring this little bird to work with me because I work such long hours and couldn't fit in all of the necessary feedings (she had a small crop and could not handle the normal number of cc's for quite a long time). I know the travelling was very bad for her because it always set her back some. 

In this area of the US, we have very few people (only one that I have found so far) who have sanctuary situations set up for PMV birds so it has been very difficult finding a suitable place for this little girl to live out her life. 

Luckily the other day I ran into another vet who has an aviary set up for PMV birds and is willing to take my girl. Because of our very limited resources on the east coast, I have to tell people that if they want to rehab a PMV bird, they had better do so with the intention of keeping the bird as a pet when he or she recovers. Most people are not willing to do that, so that does not leave many options for these sick NYC birds. 

I think I asked this before, but have any of you had any successful releases back into the wild? I recall a story about birds becoming startled during flight and spiralling down to the ground. I think the chance of relapse is always there, so release is probably not a great idea, but just curious is any of you out there have done it successfully in the feral flocks you feed.

Appaloosa is going to her new home in about 2 weeks.

Laura


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Laura,

I am so pleased that you have found Appaloosa a permanent home! That must be a great relief to you.

I can only tell what my own experience has been, it is sad that your experience was so different. Maybe the virus has mutated to become more virulent in North America than it is here in the UK?

Just as a matter of interest did you give her calcium when her symptoms prevented her from being able to eat even out of a deep dish? 

I have had 9 PMV pigeons so far, with the full range of symptoms: Stargazing, seed tossing, turning in circles, having fits... Gurdy NEVER seemed to straighten his head, he was permanently stargazing and looked like something out of a nightmare when he walked around like that but he still fed himself somehow. I didn't know about crops then so I watched his poops to ensure that he was eating and digesting food and somehow he was managing. He is still with me, strong and healthy. Feefo the Beautiful had constant fits but managed to straighten up and eat although at one stage she tossed away 20 times more seed than she swallowed. The only one that needed hand feeding was my little Blackie, still a youngster when I found her she could probably have fed herself on small seeds, but she seemed to have a very narrow throat and if she picked up a large pea she choked. I was very new to pigeons then so I hand fed her tiny pieces of wholemeal bread dipped in Complan (that is what our RSPCA feeds squabs) and that took at least 45 minutes per feed, three times a day but I never considered that a big problem or even related to the illness. She was self feeding within a couple of weeks and is a beautiful glossy adult now (but has never produced an egg!)

Maybe I have been very lucky, but I will never hesitate to pick up and take in a pigeon with PMV.

Cynthia




------------------
_All beings are fond of themselves, they like pleasure, they hate pain, they shun destruction, they like life and want to live long. To all, life is dear; hence their life should be protected.

-Mahavira_


----------



## EarthaPidge (Feb 5, 2004)

Hi Cynthia, 

The formula I was feeding had a calcium supplement mixed in. However, I did not feed her any grit during the crop feedings. She is currently eating a combination of mixed seed and an organic balanced pellet diet that contains calcium. She (he?) looks gorgeous now (although she was always a cutie). Hard to believe she is the same bird. If I can find a way to post her before and after pics online, I will do that for anyone interested. Any suggestions on how to do that anyone? 

Laura


----------



## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Another thing on calcium for PMV pigeons, as I posted on fprc. I get a red mineral block from the Australian Pigeon Company, which contains various grits, crushed shells and such, with added trace elements. Cynthia's aviary pigeons literally fought over it, so I had to give them all enough to keep em happy. 

But, I also put some of this crumbled in Merengue's cage (the PMV pigeon). I was quite amazed that within a short time she had eaten it all! I gave her a little more today, and we both watched her eating some of it. 

No way could she have recognised it as 'good for her' so maybe it has a smell we cannot detect but, anyway, it is full of necessary elements that pigeon grit alone probably does not have, and of course calcium.

Laura, if your pics are from a digital camera, or you can scan them in, you could try setting up a webshots album if you have no website. Alternatively, email them to me
[email protected] and I can put them on one of my web pages and post the link here. 

John


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I would love to see a photo. Accidentally tonight I came across the first post about Appaloossa (from Eileen), which mentioned how emaciated she was. 

Cynthia

[This message has been edited by cyro51 (edited June 06, 2004).]


----------

