# Help for starters with newborn baby pigeon chicks.



## Guest (Apr 26, 2009)

Hey! I need some major help here for starters! I'm new to the pigeon world. I found 2 abandoned newborn baby pigeons on my windowsill. I took them in. I placed the chicks in a basket lined with a heavy cloth rag and paper towel. I placed their twig nest on top with them inside. I bought special Baby Bird Formula, prepared it and fed the two chicks with a syringe. Ok, can u give me guidance of how often to feed and what to expect and how much to feed and what a full crop means (looks like). I read the basic care at http://www.pigeons.biz/pigeons/resources/basiccare.html but I'm still a little confused. I want to do all in my power to keep them alive and healthy so that they'll grow up and live!!! Also what does it mean when the chicks sit there opening and closing their beak. I would think they are hungry but I had just fed them and their crops were full. Can you please help me and give me basic guidance? Thanks in Advance.

Shira


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Did they have a nest on the windowsill? Are you sure they were abandoned, as the parents do leave for periods of time, and return.


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## Shira (Apr 26, 2009)

Yes they had a nest. It's too late though, I took them in so the parents won't care for them now. Oops... So what do I do now?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

How long have you had the babies inside?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes, how long have you had them inside? Maybe if you put them back, the parents will return and feed them. They'll have a much better chance at survival if they are raised by the parents. Where are you located? The babies holding their mouths open could mean that they are having a hard time breathing. You have to be very careful when you fed them, not to get food down in their lungs. You can aspirate them. As they get older, the parents leave for longer times. That doesn't necessarily mean that they have abondoned them. Could you give us a bit more information?


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## Shira (Apr 26, 2009)

I've had them for a day. I've been keeping an eye but the mom hasn't come back. I don't mind raising them though. What other information do u want about the chicks? I've been feeding them every so often. They look like they're doing fine. How exactly am I suppposed to feed them to ensure that I don't get food in their lungs. When thy chirp, what does it mean? Thanks for all your help!!

Shira


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## Snowy_pied_chic (Feb 19, 2009)

*advice*

you may like to try this website, search the information on handfeeding...
www.internationaldovesociety.com

hope it helps!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Shira said:


> I've had them for a day. I've been keeping an eye but the mom hasn't come back. I don't mind raising them though. What other information do u want about the chicks? I've been feeding them every so often. They look like they're doing fine. How exactly am I suppposed to feed them to ensure that I don't get food in their lungs. When thy chirp, what does it mean? Thanks for all your help!!
> 
> Shira


How are you feeding them? What are you feeding them? You should be feeding them 3 or 4 times a day, when their crop empties. And you should be feeding them enough to fill the crop. Not so it feels hard, but like a soft pillow.


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## Shira (Apr 26, 2009)

I've been feeding them special Baby Bird Formula that I picked up at the local pet shop. I mix the powder with warm water and feed them with a syringe. I place the syringe at the side of their beaks and they open up and eat. How long should the gaps be between feedings? Should I make an effort to wake up in the middle of the night to feed them? I did that last night, but I'm not sure it's necessary. Am I doing the right thing?? Thanks for all your help!!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I have fed baby pigeons, and never had one that just opened up his mouth to be fed. Normally you would have to open their beak gently, because they don't eat by opening their mouth for the parents. THEY put their beaks into the parents mouth to eat. Not the other way around. Open their beak gently, and take a syringe or eye dropper, and put it to the back of their throat. The back of their tongue. Maybe a third of an eye dropper at a time. Let him swallow, then do it again. The crop should look like a soft pillow when he is full. Feed again in a few hours, but only if the crop has emptied. Maybe 4 times a day. I try to make the last feeding kinda late, and no, I never got up in the middle of the night. Where are you located? Pigeons don't usually just abandon their babies. They can do a much better job of raising them than we can. If you put them back where they could be seen by the parents, they would probably come back. I would try that. And feed in between while waiting to see if they return.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Here is another way to feed the babies. Sometimes they will eat this way, as it feels more natural to them. Check out the web page.
http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/165797594SYYRWL


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## Shira (Apr 26, 2009)

They don't open their mouths wide open. I put a drop of food on the side of their beak and then they open up and suck it in and then I put more... Is that wrong? Should I open the beak, put the syringe in their beaks and squirt the food gently down their throats?


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## Shira (Apr 26, 2009)

BTW, the babies are like 2-3 days old.


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## justin4pcd (Sep 7, 2008)

You should not have taken them in.


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## Shira (Apr 26, 2009)

Ok everyone keeps telling me that! It's too late! I'm asking for advice of how to make the best of them being in my house! Thanks for everyone's help!!


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## wolfwood (Jan 26, 2009)

1st - sounds like you're doing fine. Whether or not they were abandoned ... you have them now ... so you have a responsibility you are trying to meet. Good for you.

Now, did you find out what/where the 'crop' is? If not, it's just at the base of the front of their neck. It's like a big balloon and, when you feed them, it should fill up and feel like a soft pillow. As they digest the food, the crop will empty. When it is fully empty, you can feel the breast bone. Don't feed again until the crop is empty - that is not to say that you need to feed as soon as the crop is empty .... but don't feed if the crop has contents (yes - you can tell).

Is there a brand name on the formula you're using? Are there instructions with it? If not, or if you have more questions about the feeding part, do a search here on PT and you'll find LOTS of information. btw - baby pigeons grow VERY fast BUT the parents continue to feed them for 25 days or so. At about 20 days, you should put down some pigeon seed (check your local feed store) and scratch about with your fingers. Do this frequently (maybe JUST before you actually feed them) so the babies learn to associate that with eating. They'll be pecking at it before you know it - but KEEP FEEDING .... less but keep going.

Hang in there. You're doing fine!!!


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## Shira (Apr 26, 2009)

Thank you so much, Wolfwood!! I appreciate your advice! I found the crop, thanks! I think the formula brand in Hagen and the food is called Tropican. Is that good? Jay3 told me to open their beaks and feed them by gently squirting the syringe down their throats. I have 2 chicks; one eats well and cooperates and I clearly see the crop fill up. The other chick is always very uneasy and his crop doesn't seem to fill like the other's. I feed them the same amount but I'm worried that this chick never eats well. He was so fidgety that I was scared to choke him! I would think he's uncomfortable in the position I hold him but the other chick doesn't seem to mind it. The strange thing is that the chick who doesn't eat as well, is a little bigger than the other chick. Any advice would be appreciated! Thank you everyone!!!!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Shira said:


> They don't open their mouths wide open. I put a drop of food on the side of their beak and then they open up and suck it in and then I put more... Is that wrong? Should I open the beak, put the syringe in their beaks and squirt the food gently down their throats?


Shira, you will never get enough into them that way. You need to open the beak gently, put the syringe or eye dropper to the back of the tongue, and put the food there. Not too much at a time. But a drop at a time, you'll have to feed non stop.I think one or two day olds should be getting should be getting about 2 mls of formula at each feeding. As the baby grows, you can increase the amount. By one week, they should be getting about 10 or 15 mls per feeding. At least, this is what I read on a web page. I just eye it, and go by that as all babies are different sizes. I either use an eye dropper, and put about 1/4 of that to the back of the tongue. When they get bigger, I probably give them 1/3 of an eye dropper at a time, let him swallow, then give more. Or, I had had luck with the cut of syringe, covered at the end. Just depends on the bird. But to get enough into them, you'll have to open the beak and go in.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Shira said:


> Thank you so much, Wolfwood!! I appreciate your advice! I found the crop, thanks! I think the formula brand in Hagen and the food is called Tropican. Is that good? Jay3 told me to open their beaks and feed them by gently squirting the syringe down their throats. I have 2 chicks; one eats well and cooperates and I clearly see the crop fill up. The other chick is always very uneasy and his crop doesn't seem to fill like the other's. I feed them the same amount but I'm worried that this chick never eats well. He was so fidgety that I was scared to choke him! I would think he's uncomfortable in the position I hold him but the other chick doesn't seem to mind it. The strange thing is that the chick who doesn't eat as well, is a little bigger than the other chick. Any advice would be appreciated! Thank you everyone!!!!


Shira, I didn't say to squirt the syringe down their throats. I said to put the food toward the back of the throat. The back of the tongue, if you will. Some people get them to eat from a baby bottle nipple that they fill with the formula. And the baby will gobble it up from the nipple. I gave you a link where they show you how to cut off the end of a syringe, fill the syringe with formula, and feed that way. Try different things, until you find one that works for you. If you are feeding them both the same amount, then the crops should be filling equally. Unless you're not getting the food into the more difficult one. That's why you open the beak and deposit the food inside. That way, you know they are getting it.


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## justin4pcd (Sep 7, 2008)

Are the pictures on your profile the babies your trying to handfeed now??


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## Shira (Apr 26, 2009)

Thanks Jay3 for all your help! I took your advice and fed them the way you explained, by opening the beak. The first time I did it I was worried b/c one chick was going crazy. But just now when I fed them, they both ate beautifully and their crops filled equaly. I have been feding each 2 ml per feeding, all this time. I'm living and learing! Thanks to u all it's slowly working out! BTW, how long does it take them to learn to fly?


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## Shira (Apr 26, 2009)

Yes the pix on my profile are the chicks I'm currently taking care of.


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

Hi Shira, here is a great way to feed them as it mimics the parents:

http://picasaweb.google.com/awrats3333/BabyFeeding#

Also, please provide them with a heating pad set on low with a towel over it if possible. They need to be kept warm for the first two weeks at least. You can get some plain, organic yogurt and mix 1/4 teaspoon with the baby food once a day, to help them digest it. You can put a new feather duster or stuffed animal in with them to snuggle with if you want. When you mix the formula, let it sit for 3-4 mins, then add a bit more water as it thickens. For this age you want it to be thin, like runny pancake mix. As they get bigger you can thicken it a bit more to the consistency of pancake mix/melted ice cream. This feeding method above should get the little one eating well too, hopefully. I've never had a baby refuse it and they usually pick it up immediately or at least within a day. Don't feed them if their crops are still full, and if one gets a crop that feels hard or sludgy, let us know right away so we can walk you through it. The important things are to keep them warm, don't overfeed, don't _under_feed , and keep them well hydrated too, which the formula helps with. You can also offer them a syringe full of water in between feedings. Good luck!


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## justin4pcd (Sep 7, 2008)

But they are doves. =\


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

justin4pcd said:


> But they are doves. =\


Yes, I checked out the pictures you were referring to. Look like Doves to me too.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Maryjane, I sent her a link showing how to feed them with the cut off syringe.


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## Shira (Apr 26, 2009)

So are they doves or Pigeons? Look at my picture of their mom. What's the difference anyway?


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## Shira (Apr 26, 2009)

I've been feeding the chicks with a syringe like you (Jay3) told me. Is it preferable to feed them with the cut syringe? It looks much messier!


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## justin4pcd (Sep 7, 2008)

They are doves yes. I think you may have invaded their privacy and thats what led them to abandon their babies. Well, good luck to you. And you should post some pics so people can see how they are growing.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Shira said:


> So are they doves or Pigeons? Look at my picture of their mom. What's the difference anyway?


Well, the Mom looks like a dove. And there is a big difference.


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

Those are indeed dove babies (from seeing the mom). The difference is mainly in their appearance (coloring, size, and body shaped--pigeons are larger and come in more colors) but there is really no important difference when it comes to feeding the babies. They feed the same way and you would just continue following the feeding routine you're using as it's just right for dove babies or pigeon babies. Wild doves are more skittish than pigeons generally and may have been scared off the nest by something, or uncomfortable with your house near, or who knows?? Either way sounds like you're doing fine so far. I didn't see if you mentioned using heat for them but it is pretty important, for their health and digestion. Normally the parents will sit on them to keep them warm until they are around two weeks old. Keep up the good work.


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## Shira (Apr 26, 2009)

Ok, so Doves they are! I really have no concept! Thanks for telling me though! Maryjane, I keep the chicks in a basket lined with a thick rag, paper towel and their original twig nest. I always keep them covered with 2 dry washcloths, and I have a lamp with a 40 watt bulb, on, over the nest most of the time. I will try to post more pictures one of these days! Thanks for everyone's help and support!! They're really doing great! It's funny, from the day I took them in I can see a difference in "personality" between the two chicks. I never mix them up although they look almost identical! One chick is more energetic and a little bit bigger and the other one is smaller, more gentle and relaxed and it always gives a chirp when I take it out to feed. Someone suggested I call them Peep and Poop; Poop being the more energetic and messier one and Peep being the smaller calmer one. Just thought I'd share that with you... BTW, is there a way to determine their gender at this age? Not that it's really important, but I'm just curious... Have a great day!!


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## Shira (Apr 26, 2009)

My chicks are definitely growing!! I see this white feathery fuzz growing on the sides of their stomachs and on their backs. At what age do they start flying? I'm gonna post new pics in a few minutes...


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## Shira (Apr 26, 2009)

My new pics are up!! Check out my album!! BTW, the first time I fed them it was a little messy and food hardened on their neck/chest. Is there a way to clean it off? It's stuck on the fuzz and if I pull it it'll hurt. Thanks!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Shira said:


> My new pics are up!! Check out my album!! BTW, the first time I fed them it was a little messy and food hardened on their neck/chest. Is there a way to clean it off? It's stuck on the fuzz and if I pull it it'll hurt. Thanks!


You could try to soak the hardened food off with a soft cloth dipped in warm water. Then wipe a little. But do it gently. Easier if you wipe it off as soon as they are done eating, with a damp cloth. Not worth pulling on it and hurting them.


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## Shira (Apr 26, 2009)

Thanks! I'll try that! They don't usually get dirty though, it was only the first 1 or 2 times. Thanks!


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

They're looking good.  A few things, I would try to not turn them upside down as I've been told before that it's not so good for them, though it doesn't seem to have hurt them at all so far. You can go ahead and leave the sticks and old nest out, and just use a box with a towel folded up under them. That will help them get traction as they grow so they don't have leg problems. Keep up the great work.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Shira said:


> Thanks! I'll try that! They don't usually get dirty though, it was only the first 1 or 2 times. Thanks!


When I fed Screech with the cut off syringe, he got covered. I just cleaned him off right after feeding.


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## Shira (Apr 26, 2009)

maryjane said:


> I would try to not turn them upside down as I've been told before that it's not so good for them, though it doesn't seem to have hurt them at all so far.


Is it okay to hold them like that when I feed them? How will I get they're beak open or see what I'm doing otherwise? Thanks!


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## Shira (Apr 26, 2009)

Jay3 said:


> When I fed Screech with the cut off syringe, he got covered. I just cleaned him off right after feeding.
> 
> 
> > Yeah, for that reason I like the syringe method better. Although this methed sounds great too!! Cute bird you've got there!


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## Shira (Apr 26, 2009)

Wow birds do grow fast!!! Someone (I think it was Jay3) told me that by the time the birds are a week old they'll be eating 10-12 ml of formula. I didn't believe that b/c my birds were almost a week and still eating 2 ml per feeding. But then they had this "growth-spurt"... One feeding they're crops filled with 2 ml, and by the next feeding they needed 4 ml. Then, 2 feedings later they needed 6 ml, and then the feeding after that, they took 9 ml each!!! It's amazing because this all happened in a day!!!!! WOW!!! The wonder of nature!!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Shira said:


> Is it okay to hold them like that when I feed them? How will I get they're beak open or see what I'm doing otherwise? Thanks!


Shira, some people wrap them like a little burrito, in a towel, put them on your lap, I just hold them on my lap and against my tummy. I'm right handed, so they face toward the right hand side.I come over their back with my left hand, reach around their head from behind, with my thumb on one side, and my forefinger on the other side of their head. This way, you can use both hands to gently open their beak, then slip my left hand forefinger and thumb in just enough so that they can't close their beak. Then I feed them with an eye dropper with my right hand. Put the food to the back of their throat, then let go of their beak, and let them swallow the food. I do this with each mouthful. Some people might just keep them on a table, and feed the same way. I just have more control with them against me. This hold gives you more control over their moving little head. They can only back up so much, because they will back their head into the V between the thumb and fore finger. You shouldn't feed them on their back.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Shira...I looked at your pictures and it appears one at least is developing a condition called splayed leg. It's caused when the babies don't have something underneath them to grip with their feet. A similar condition is can be caused by a vitamin deficiency.
It needs to be corrected immediately or the baby will be unable to perch or walk.


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## Shira (Apr 26, 2009)

Charis said:


> Shira...I looked at your pictures and it appears one at least is developing a condition called splayed leg. It's caused when the babies don't have something underneath them to grip with their feet. A similar condition is can be caused by a vitamin deficiency.
> It needs to be corrected immediately or the baby will be unable to perch or walk.


Seriously?! How did you detect that? Can you please tell me what has to be done in order to cure and prevent it? What should they be perched on that will give them the grip they need? I have them on paper towel now! Please help me and guide me through this! Thanks so much!!!

Shira


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

You can put them in a bowl just large enough for them to sit together in, and please use some sort of cloth towel instead of paper towels so they can get traction. This should help, and if necessary there are other ways to hold the legs together but for now please start with the bowl and an old towel. "Splay leg" is something that develops when the legs can't get a good grip, and just kind of slide out to the sides. It is crippling if it's not corrected while they're babies. We don't know for sure that's it, but it's good to start using the bowel and towel. Don't panic, I'm sure it will be fine.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Charis said:


> Shira...
> *I looked at your pictures and it appears one at least is developing a condition called splayed leg.*
> 
> It's caused when the babies don't have something underneath them to grip with their feet. A similar condition is can be caused by a vitamin deficiency.
> It needs to be corrected immediately or the baby will be unable to perch or walk.





Shira said:


> *Seriously?!
> * How did you detect that? *
> Shira


Shira,
* In the picture that I posted the link to, note the baby's leg sticking out the side. That's indicative of a splayed leg.
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/picture.php?albumid=614&pictureid=7274

I think the baby is young enough that if you do as Maryjane has suggested things should be OK.

PLEASE do not put the babies on their back. Being in that position, especially while feeding, they can aspirate very easily.

Best of luck with these two little sweeties. 

Cindy


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## Shira (Apr 26, 2009)

Thanks everyone for your help! My doves wouldn't have a chance of survival without your professional help. I will try to feed the chicks the way Jay3 explained, without turning them backwards. Also I will put them in a small bowl with a washcloth under them, and see if that helps. Are these the right things to do? I really appreciate the help and Peep & Poop appreciate it too! Thanks again and I'll keep you updated!!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Keep us updated with pictures of the leg to see how it's doing.


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## Shira (Apr 26, 2009)

I need help!!! I can't figure out how to feed them without turning them on their backs! I tried but the chick was uneasy, I couldn't see what I was doing and it was messy. I think I just don't know exactly how to do it. Jay3 explained to my but I still don't get it. Can you explain it again or maybe show me pictures. I don't want to turn them upside down, but that's the only way I've succeeded in feeding them. I'll appreciate advice! Thanks!

Shira


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## Shira (Apr 26, 2009)

They've been flapping their wings a lot lately! At what age to doves learn to fly?


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## Pisciottano (Aug 20, 2005)

Sorry to butt in, but don't doves nest in trees? Do they ALSO nest on hard surfaces? I'm asking for my education not to contradict what has been said. Many thanks, Gladys


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Shira, where do you live?


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## Shira (Apr 26, 2009)

Jay3 said:


> Shira, where do you live?


I'd prefer not giving personal information about myself, online. Is there an important reason you need to know?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Pisciottano said:


> Sorry to butt in, but don't doves nest in trees? Do they ALSO nest on hard surfaces? I'm asking for my education not to contradict what has been said. Many thanks, Gladys


Pisciottano, I only have mourning doves around here, and they will build anywhere that they can lay their loose, not very well put together nest. They have built nests up in the large spruces in our backyard, in a section of the tree where there is a large branch that has enough smaller branches covered with needles, that it is actually like a shelf. They have built on boards that were supporting a temporary roof over our deck. They just throw together a loose pile of branches. They can't do this on a single branch. They need some sort of flat surface on which to pile their branches. Hope this helps.


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## Shira (Apr 26, 2009)

Pisciottano said:


> Sorry to butt in, but don't doves nest in trees? Do they ALSO nest on hard surfaces? I'm asking for my education not to contradict what has been said. Many thanks, Gladys


I don't have too much experience in the field, but I know that they definitely nest on hard surfaces. Mine made their nest on my windowsill. Good luck!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Shira said:


> I don't have too much experience in the field, but I know that they definitely nest on hard surfaces. Mine made their nest on my windowsill. Good luck!


Like I said, they do nest in evergreens, when they can find a bough full of branches and evergreen needles that is spread like a fan. Any flat surface will do. Doesn't necessarily need to be hard. Just flat.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Shira said:


> I'd prefer not giving personal information about myself, online. Is there an important reason you need to know?


How personal is what state, or what country you live in? Most others have it posted where they are from. I don't want to come over for lunch, I just wanted to know if it would be possible to call you on the phone, as you're just not getting it, as to how to feed these babies. If you keep feeding them on their back, you can aspirate and kill them. It is very hard to explain it this way. I don't have any good pictures of the way I hold them. If I could speak with you, and you had the bird in front of you, I could lead you through it. It would make it a lot easier and clearer. You're making helping you a bit difficult. That's all.


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## Shira (Apr 26, 2009)

Jay3 said:


> How personal is what state, or what country you live in? Most others have it posted where they are from. I don't want to come over for lunch, I just wanted to know if it would be possible to call you on the phone, as you're just not getting it, as to how to feed these babies. If you keep feeding them on their back, you can aspirate and kill them. It is very hard to explain it this way. I don't have any good pictures of the way I hold them. If I could speak with you, and you had the bird in front of you, I could lead you through it. It would make it a lot easier and clearer. You're making helping you a bit difficult. That's all.


I apologies for making things difficult. I was just thought to be extra cautious with information I give out online. Anyhow, do you want me to send you my NY phone number in a private message? Or should I call you? Just tell me a time that is good. I'm available right now and it's actually feeding time...


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## penname (Jul 28, 2008)

Cute babies!
The parents look like Senegal doves?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Shira and I spoke, and she is now practicing feeding the babies rightside up. I explained how I do it, but any suggestions on feeding that will make it easier, I'm sure are welcome. I know everyone does it differently, some ways work for one person, and something else works for another. Nice to know the different options.


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## Hunterex8 (Apr 3, 2009)

When my pigeon was young, and i was handfeeding her, before i got the sryringes i would hold her beak on the sides and she would open her mouth all the way and i could get food in that way. But i dont think many birds do this, my friend has 6 babys, 1 of which was abandoned and the rest are being cared for by the parent bird, and it doesnt open its mouth this way. The syringe method is a great way


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Jay3 said:


> Shira and I spoke, and she is now practicing feeding the babies rightside up. I explained how I do it, but any suggestions on feeding that will make it easier, I'm sure are welcome. I know everyone does it differently, some ways work for one person, and something else works for another. Nice to know the different options.



Here's the way I do it. A little more time consuming maybe, but it works for me. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJe6y8EYQRg


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Lovebirds said:


> Here's the way I do it. A little more time consuming maybe, but it works for me.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJe6y8EYQRg



Shira, this is the link I wanted to show you, but I couldn't find it.

Thanks Renee


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## Shira (Apr 26, 2009)

penname said:


> Cute babies!
> The parents look like Senegal doves?


I have no idea what they are! lol. But it doesn't really make too much of a differance to me...


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## Shira (Apr 26, 2009)

Jay3 said:


> Shira and I spoke, and she is now practicing feeding the babies rightside up. I explained how I do it, but any suggestions on feeding that will make it easier, I'm sure are welcome. I know everyone does it differently, some ways work for one person, and something else works for another. Nice to know the different options.


Thank you so much Jay3 for all your help!! I'm getting the hang of it now, without the risk of aspirating the birds. They're doing great and the leg looks good too! I will post more pictures when I get a chance. Thanks everyone for all your help!!


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## Shira (Apr 26, 2009)

Jay3 said:


> Shira, this is the link I wanted to show you, but I couldn't find it.
> 
> Thanks Renee


Thanks!! Cute birds...


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## NonCometL (Jul 4, 2008)

Jay3 said:


> I have fed baby pigeons, and never had one that just opened up his mouth to be fed. Normally you would have to open their beak gently, because they don't eat by opening their mouth for the parents.
> 
> Interestingly, the little guy I have also opens his mouth and while it isn't exactly like the gaping you'd see in other birds, I have not had to pry open his mouth since the first day. He sees the syringe and opens up for insertion - I think he actually thinks he has his beak in a parent's mouth - he just sits there with his beak open. As soon as the tube touches his beak, he swallows it. The pigeon I raised last year was no where near this easy or cooperative.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

NonCometL said:


> Jay3 said:
> 
> 
> > I have fed baby pigeons, and never had one that just opened up his mouth to be fed. Normally you would have to open their beak gently, because they don't eat by opening their mouth for the parents.
> ...


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## NonCometL (Jul 4, 2008)

Jay3 said:


> NonCometL said:
> 
> 
> > Wish they all did that. Maybe you could make a video, and I could play it for any babies I need to feed. That way they'd have an idea of what their part in it was.  It would sure make things a lot easier.
> ...


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

NonCometL said:


> Jay3 said:
> 
> 
> > LOL. I actually did try to video tape him eating the other day, but too complicated to try and hold him and the food and the camera all at the same time. After the baby pigeon last year, I swore I would never raise another one - he was SO hard to get eating, and SO hard to wean, but who can say no when the alternative is pretty lousy. This little guy is a piece of cake comparatively, thankfully.
> ...


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## Shira (Apr 26, 2009)

Hi everyone!!!!! Sorry I haven't written in forever!!! I've just been SO busy!! But don't worry I haven't neglected my doves. They're doing great!!! I moved them to a cage! They're eating well (thanks to Jay3's advice!) and growing beautifully!! I occasionally take them out to the garden and let them fly around; they're really good!! It's just a bit scary because I don't want to lose them!! One of my chicks loves a certain big tree I have in my garden and when I let him free he flies to the highest branch and my brother has to climb up to get him down. The other bird is really attached to me; he flies in a circle and then right back to me as if I'm his mommy. It's adorable! Anyway, I started teaching them to eat bird seed. They are pecking, but not really eating a lot. Any advice on how to teach them to eat solid will be appreciated. And how exactly to feed them water. (I'm trying with a shot glass as Jay3 advised.) Anyway, I've got to go because I have a lot to do but I have lots of awesome pictures that I'll put up as soon as a get a chance... Have an awesome week everyone!!! Regards from Peep and Poop.


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## Shira (Apr 26, 2009)

By the way, my new pictures are up!! Check them out!!

Question: How do I clean off droppings that hardened on my chick's foot?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Shira said:


> By the way, my new pictures are up!! Check them out!!
> 
> Question: How do I clean off droppings that hardened on my chick's foot?


Hi Shira. Glad to hear that the babies are doing well. Try sprinkling some small seeds on a towel on the floor. They will probably try to pick it up. The more often you do this, the quicker they will learn to eat seed. Put down a small dish of water, and show it to them. Dip their beaks gently into the water. Not over their nose, and just hold their head there for a few seconds. They should learn to drink. Do you leave water with them? They should have a dish of seed and water left in the cage. Also some grit to help digest the seed. They'll eventually figure out how to eat and drink. Kind of peck at the seed with your finger to show them.

As far as the poop on his foot, Give them a shallow coontainer of water to bath in. It will soften and come off itself. I'll go check out the pictures now. Thanks for the update.


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## Shira (Apr 26, 2009)

Jay3 commented on a picture:

"Shira, they will need a cage big enough to be able to flap their wings. They do this for exercise, and you don't want them hitting the sides of the cage. Also, never leave them alone outside when you are not around. A hawk can swoop down and grab them through the bars of the cage. Also, a rat or mouse could get in. The mouse droppings can make them very sick, and the rat will kill them. Just so you know."

Hi: Don't worry, I never leave them outside unsupervised. They are always indoors unless I'm out with them, so I don't have to worry about the hawk/mouse/rat issue. I don't have a bigger cage, but I take them out occasionally to flap their wings in the garden, is that ok? I'll try feeding them the way you told me, and cleaning the foot off. I'll let you know how it goes...

btw, is there a way to determine their gender at this age?

Thanks!!!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Shira said:


> btw, is there a way to determine their gender at this age?


Not really, but as they grow, watching them and how they interact will probably give you a pretty good idea. But you're never sure.


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

I'm glad to hear they're doing well. Please do keep a very close eye on them outside, I guess there's no way to make them a little netted-in area to fly around in a little? I just would hate to have a hawk get one or something if it's up in the tree and you couldn't reach it. I know how much you care about them.  You've done a great job. How is the baby's leg?


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## Shira (Apr 26, 2009)

The leg is totally fine! I think it was just kicking in that picture. I did what I was told and kept them in a bowl with a towel for a while, but I really think there never was a problem. But it still always is better to be safe than sorry.

OMG I had such a scare yesterday!!! I took the birds out, but only let one free at a time. So as I've said, one bird always flies in a circle and then back to me, and the other one flies up into a high tree. So I was out with my younger brother and we were watching the bird. Then it flew into the tree and it was impossible to get it down so we shook the branches for a while until it finally let go and flew to another branch. But I didn't see where it went and I was freaking out!!!!!!! Then we finally spotted him and thankfully, with much effort and tree climbing, got him down!!! PHEW!!! I really don't know what to do though!!?? I want them to practice flying, but they're not old enough (and don't eat solid yet) to fly away. So should I just forget about letting them practice flying?! Because I can't risk them getting lost and then probably eaten by a bigger bird.

Also, they're really not eating solid!!!! They peck at the seeds but I don't think they swallow it, and it definitely doesn't fill their crops!! Also, they aren't drinking water really. They are still 100% reliant on me feeding them formula. What should I do??

Thanks everyone!!!!!!! HAVE A GREAT DAY!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Shira said:


> Also, they're really not eating solid!!!! They peck at the seeds but I don't think they swallow it, and it definitely doesn't fill their crops!! Also, they aren't drinking water really. They are still 100% reliant on me feeding them formula. What should I do??
> 
> Thanks everyone!!!!!!! HAVE A GREAT DAY!!!!!!!!!!!


Get them on seed and drinking water on their own. And I wouldn't let them outside to fly.
Maybe you're not letting them get hungry enough. Or letting them try long enough to pick up the seed and eat it, before you are feeding them. If they are hungry enough, it is more incentive to eat the seed.


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## Shira (Apr 26, 2009)

They are hungry enough! I feed them when their crop is completely empty. They eat a few (like 3) seeds. And I always leave seed in the cage but even if they do pick at it, it's not a substantial amount! I do the thing with the towel and I also try feeding them water (by dipping their beak in - without the nose). I'll continue trying, and get back to you on how it's working out.

Don't worry, I'm not planning on letting them free again. I learned my lesson!!!!!!!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Shira said:


> They are hungry enough! I feed them when their crop is completely empty. They eat a few (like 3) seeds. And I always leave seed in the cage but even if they do pick at it, it's not a substantial amount! I do the thing with the towel and I also try feeding them water (by dipping their beak in - without the nose). I'll continue trying, and get back to you on how it's working out.
> 
> Don't worry, I'm not planning on letting them free again. I learned my lesson!!!!!!!


Well maybe you have to let them be hungry a little longer. How long are you going between feedings? If they're eating a few seeds, and they are hungry ENOUGH, they'll eat more. Glad you're not going to let them outside.


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

Sometimes it takes a bit, you're doing just fine. I let my babies (when I have to hand raise one inside) run around in a bedroom when they're learning to fly; I put down old sheets/towels and let them out for a few hours. Safe and easy to clean up, too, as you can use the sheets for a few days before washing if they don't poop too much on them.  Try mixing a bit of seeds in with the formula, I'm doing that now with two I started hand feeding today (brought to me a few weeks ago and fostered by other pigeons until today when another male went into their box mistakenly), they are about the age of yours and pecking at seeds but not getting them down yet. Also try some defrosted corn and/or peas at this age as they might go for those too. Good luck!


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Since my bedroom is where, Dom, Gimie and Woe get out for exercise, I bought a shower curtain to put on my bed. Works SUPER and sooo easy to clean! 

Do use a towel on my dresser. 

Love and Hugs

Shi


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## Shira (Apr 26, 2009)

Jay3 said:


> Well maybe you have to let them be hungry a little longer. How long are you going between feedings? If they're eating a few seeds, and they are hungry ENOUGH, they'll eat more. Glad you're not going to let them outside.


A feed approximately every 6-10 hours (depending if it's night or day, etc...)
Should I start feeding them less formula and if they are hungry enough, they'll eat seed?!


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## Shira (Apr 26, 2009)

I think I'll try the bedroom idea (if I get approvel from family members). Is it very important for them to get a chance to stretch their wings? Should I stay in with them for a while, or just leave them there, alone, for a few hours?

I can't mix seeds with the formula b/c one seed got stuck in the syringe and clogged the formula from coming out. I do put seeds in their beak sometimes during a feeding, though.

Thanks everyone!!!!! Your advice is really helpful!!!!!


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

mr squeaks said:


> Since my bedroom is where, Dom, Gimie and Woe get out for exercise, I bought a shower curtain to put on my bed. Works SUPER and sooo easy to clean!
> 
> Do use a towel on my dresser.
> 
> ...


I use a shower curtain for kids to color/draw/eat on when they're here, that's a great idea Shi. I haven't had any in the house since I found the shower curtain so I'll have to try it!

Try to defrosted frozen peas, too. They're very easy to feed, just pop in one at a time. I've been doing that today with the two I have in as they are fighting the formula some. The peas go down much easier (they're almost grown babies). You can stay in with them while they flap around if you get the okay from the family. It doesn't have to be for hours at a time, but half an hour would be nice for them.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Shira said:


> A feed approximately every 6-10 hours (depending if it's night or day, etc...)
> Should I start feeding them less formula and if they are hungry enough, they'll eat seed?!


You should try to get them to eat the seed BEFORE feeding them. Put them on the floor on a towel, and peck at the seed with your finger, as if your finger were a beak. It's easier for them to learn to eat when they see others eating. Since you don't have other birds, they have no one to watch and imitate. How long to you do this for? It may take patience. They need to learn that it is something to eat. But you said that they do eat a few seeds, so they must have the idea. Pecking is a natural thing for them. When they start to notice things in their environment, they usually want to peck at everything to check it out. This natural behavior should get them started. Feeding them thawed corn and peas isn't really teaching them to pick up seed, or to get used to the feel of seed. If you want to get them picking up seed, then you need to keep trying, and be patient. Take a while to do this before feeding them. And lowering their beak in a small, shallow dish of water, should get them drinking it eventually. You need to keep repeating it. They should catch on. Covering things in a room and letting them fly around is an excellent idea. I do this with babies who are not yet old enough for the loft. I just use old sheets, then wash them as needed. Good luck.


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## Shira (Apr 26, 2009)

They are both pecking now, but not really drinking yet, I will keep trying. How often should I be feeding them formula now? As they are not eating a substantial amount of seed yet. 

Eventually, I'd like to let my doves free. How old will they have to be? They are a month old now. How will I know that they can fend for themselves in the wild? I wouldn't want them to be eaten by a cat or a hawk the day I let them free.

Will they remember where I live and come back to visit?!

Thanks!! Have a great day!!!!!!


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

Shira said:


> They are both pecking now, but not really drinking yet, I will keep trying. How often should I be feeding them formula now? As they are not eating a substantial amount of seed yet.
> 
> Eventually, I'd like to let my doves free. How old will they have to be? They are a month old now. How will I know that they can fend for themselves in the wild? I wouldn't want them to be eaten by a cat or a hawk the day I let them free.
> 
> ...


Glad to hear they're doing well. You will need to keep feeding them formula until they are eating enough seeds that you can feel the seeds in their full crop. Leave the seeds down all the time and then it just depends on each individual baby; some pick up eating on their own in a few days, others may take a few weeks. I wouldn't think about releasing them until they're at least seven weeks old and flying and eating very well on their own. They may remember where you live and come back, that would be cool, wouldn't it?? How are they doing at flying now? Flapping about a lot?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Hi Shira, you should read this information on releasing. It's very informative.
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f25/release-criteria-for-birds-amp-animals-11919.html


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## Shira (Apr 26, 2009)

So here's the story. I have 2 baby doves, Peep and Poop. I was playing around with Poop's leg - don't ask!! Anyway, after I put him down I noticed that he was limping )-': The weird thing is that I'm 99% sure I touched his right leg, but his left leg is pulled back and seems to be the bad one. I feel terrible, and I need advice on how to "fix" what I have done. I feel bad enough about what I did and would appreciate if you can be considerate and help me through this without making me feel worse than I already do. Thanks a lot!!
~Shira~


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Shira said:


> So here's the story. I have 2 baby doves, Peep and Poop. I was playing around with Poop's leg - don't ask!! Anyway, after I put him down I noticed that he was limping )-': The weird thing is that I'm 99% sure I touched his right leg, but his left leg is pulled back and seems to be the bad one. I feel terrible, and I need advice on how to "fix" what I have done. I feel bad enough about what I did and would appreciate if you can be considerate and help me through this without making me feel worse than I already do. Thanks a lot!!
> ~Shira~


can you post a pic of his leg....did you mess with his leg because something was wrong with it?, this could just be splayed leg and not your fault at all, perhaps we can help if possible, but there needs to be more detail on what is going on..


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Were both legs okay before you played with the leg? Can you tell us what you did? Did you pull on it? Or twist it? Just trying to figure out what went wrong.


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## Shira (Apr 26, 2009)

spirit wings said:


> can you post a pic of his leg....did you mess with his leg because something was wrong with it?, this could just be splayed leg and not your fault at all, perhaps we can help if possible, but there needs to be more detail on what is going on..


It isn't splayed leg (or if it is, he didn't have it before) because he had perfect legs and never limped. I think I caused the damage


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## Shira (Apr 26, 2009)

Jay3 said:


> Were both legs okay before you played with the leg? Can you tell us what you did? Did you pull on it? Or twist it? Just trying to figure out what went wrong.


Yeah, the legs were perfectly healthy before I touched them. Ok, as dumb as this sounds, what I did was try putting a little ponytail holder around his leg, the way you put those bands on racing pigeons. The ponytail holder wasn't tight on his leg but I noticed that he seemed uncomfortable and I took it right off. Since then he's been limping and has difficulty flying. Basically, his right leg is fine but his left leg is usually pulled back and he doesn't put pressure on it. THE WEIRDEST THING IS THAT I HAD PUT THE PONYTAIL ON HIS RIGHT LEG, SO WHY IS THAT THE GOOD LEG?!?! 
I know I did something really stupid!! But what do I do now?


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## Shira (Apr 26, 2009)

I posted pics in my album of the legs.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If you don't get him to a vet, and it's bad, he may be crippled always. You maybe just forgot which leg it was. Or maybe you injured him trying to get it off. Maybe in the way that you were handling him. Anyway, he must be in pain, if he is limping and is having difficulty flying. You really need to have a vet look at them. You owe him that much, as he is in your care, and you are responsible for him.


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## Shira (Apr 26, 2009)

So after much research, I found a vet in my area who specializes in birds (and not the usual; cats and dogs). I will hopefully schedule an appointment tomorrow. Wow, this is really a major responsibility! But it has been awesome!! Great learning experience!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Please do follow through with the vet, and let us know how it goes. Good luck.


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## Shira (Apr 26, 2009)

Hi! So I took the birds to the vet. He knew someone with a whole loft and lots of pigeons who was willing to take in my doves. They're in good hands now; Safe and secure!! I miss them


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You can't house the doves in with pigeons. The pigeons would be too aggressive for the doves. They'd hurt them.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Jay3 said:


> You can't house the doves in with pigeons. The pigeons would be too aggressive for the doves. They'd hurt them.


I agree. 
This whole situation is very sad and such a tragedy. These birds never should have been separated from their parents in the first place.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

And now, what will their life be? People should think twice about it before purposely taking on something like this. And interfering with an animals life on a whim. Make sure if you are taking control of another creatures life that you are up to the challenge. Animals are living, breathing, feeling things, not toys to be played with. The whole thing makes me feel so sad.


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## Shira (Apr 26, 2009)

Sorry!!! I meant doves not Pigeons; I always mix them up!! They look the same to me, but I know he had the same bird I have.


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## Shira (Apr 26, 2009)

Btw, I really don't appreciate the way I'm being put down. I spent the past 2 months doing my all for these creatures!! Ok, so I might be an amateur. Ok, so I'm human and I might have made a mistake which I feel totally horrible about. But I spent money, time and effort and did get mocked a bit by my friends for being a pigeon freak and joining "nerdy pigeon talk". So u know what, the birds couldn't have been in better hands!!! I totally intend on standing up for my rights around here! (lol) btw, I really appreciate all your help, advice and support - it was really helpful!!! People make mistakes in life, but it's all a living and learning experience. Maybe next time I find abandoned birds on my windowsill I won't take them in. You never know, maybe I'll become a Pigeon lover like ya' all one day... Who knows?! But you know what, I don't deserve to be put down for all the hard work and time I devoted to these birds! In the world of Pigeon lovers the expectations might be higher, but a random high school girl like me, couldn't do better. I'm not bragging, just standing up for my pride and giving myself credit that I don't seem to be getting from any of you... (;
Have a great day!!


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