# Catalonian Tumblers



## saku4me

Hi guys,

I have a few homers now and am planning on getting a few Catalonian Tumblers but have no idea where to get them and how much they would cost. Can anyone help me out? Thanks ahead of time and thanks to those who spend the time of day to answer a 14 year old kid's questions.


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## spirit wings

you could try this person [email protected] 

they had some for sale on eggbid not long ago.


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## 1981

Where are you located? Are you willing to pay for shipping or are you looking for someone locally? Pm LSfreeland. I got some cats from him. He is a good guy to deal with.


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## tumshy

saku4me said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I have a few homers now and am planning on getting a few Catalonian Tumblers but have no idea where to get them and how much they would cost. Can anyone help me out? Thanks ahead of time and thanks to those who spend the time of day to answer a 14 year old kid's questions.


Hi I have the Cats. I'm in central Scotland, where are you?


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## 2y4life

tumshy said:


> Hi I have the Cats. I'm in central Scotland, where are you?


Wisconsin, USA


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## Guest

tumshy said:


> Hi I have the Cats. I'm in central Scotland, where are you?


so how long and well do these birds you have fly ?


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## tumshy

2y4life said:


> Wisconsin, USA


 Oops! a wee bit too far from me then, sorry.


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## tumshy

LokotaLoft said:


> so how long and well do these birds you have fly ?


He! He! at the moment not a lot but last year I bred 14 youngsters and weaned them all at around the same time give or take a couple of days. Not knowing much about how to fly them I treated them like racers. Plenty feed for the first two weeks then cut back and eventually the birds started taking to the wing doing small circles around the loft and getting a feel for it. After maybe a week or two they started going farther away in all directions and kitted very tight. Eventually they were ranging around 3/4 of a mile in all directions and flying on average 40 minutes. Some days they would just fly around the loft location flying low and sometimes inches from the ground  playing chicken with the fencing etc. Other days they would fly higher around 200 feet and this is when they would head off out of sight and appear now and again from a different direction. Not much tumbling but remember these birds were just youngsters. Once they hit puberty they were more interested in each other and now only fly a few minutes as they are more interested in showing and their perches. As you have probably worked out by now I am a novice and a bit too soft with them. I also work 12 hour shifts so it's hard to keep them in a routine. The birds I have are the Cap de Frere patterned Cats which are also very pretty as well as being athletes. I think anyone with good experience could have these birds flying for as long as they want (feeding, etc.) They are very competent in the air and if anything takes them by surpries they just drop a gear and they are off, ducking and diving at great speed. Quite a timid breed but I have tried to breed from the tamest, mixing colours etc. and they are a lot easier in the loft now. Even the tamest ones I have do not like being handled although they are easy to pick up and like to sit on my shoulders and head etc. they struggle in the hand. Anyway, you will gather that I like this breed of pigeon, to me they have everything. It is now up to me to get tough with them and get them going again. Thanks for the interest and I'll post up some websites maybe you guys have not seen. Cheers, Chazz.


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## tumshy

O.K. guys here is a website of a quality breeder/flyer of the Catalonian Tumblers who lives in Catalonia, Spain. There are plenty smart photo's and information on the breed. I tried to aquire birds from him but the cost of transport, logistics and red tape were too much for me. I just love the Culliblanc (white tail) pattern and the red culliblanc are magnificent in my opinion. Click on the desired pattern e.g. Roig Culliblanc and at the bottom of page click on the camera to see more photo's. The Catalonian Tumbler is said to have a "wardrobe of a thousand costumes" and must be the most diverse breed for patterns and colours but they are not just pretty, they can fly very competently and are said to have been been bred to compete against Falconers birds. Having had these birds for a couple of years now I do not doubt this claim. They are small. very alert and agile. Hope you enjoy the site and it can spark a desire to aquire some Cats for yourselves. 

http://www.volcatala.com/Vol_catala/Bienvenida.html


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## tumshy

Some Catalonian websites.

http://www.cichlidlovers.com/birds_cats_by_bodio.htm

http://www.iberische-taubenrassen.de/galerie_katalan.htm

http://www.aviphilia.com/index.php?id=141&L=1

http://www.cichlidlovers.com/birds_cats.htm


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## conditionfreak

I have a limited amount of experience with Cats.

But I will say this. I do not think that they are "tumblers". They are just Catalonians, not Catalonian Tumblers. Even though many call them that for some reason. I could be wrong, but from what I have read, they do not tumble. Mine certainly do not.

I have four and I find the Cats to be very wild like. They are tough to catch in the loft (hence why they are tough for hawks to catch also), as they are very quick. A lot quicker than homers. It is a real hassle to catch them in the loft.

They also do not like to fly very long. They will take many short flights around, but no long flights. When they do fly, their wings "slap" together and make loud slapping sounds. I believe that the wing tips are meeting above the head and clapping there, to make these sounds. I use to think it was the wing tips hitting underneath the birds when they were flying. But now I believe they are actually clapping above them and not below.

Maybe someone with better eyesight can verify that.

P.S. I got lucky and got four Cats for $5 bucks each, from a person on this website. I just put up a "wanted" ad in the "wanted and for sale section" of Pigeon Talk, and someone responded. I of course had to pay for shipping though.


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## tumshy

conditionfreak said:


> I have a limited amount of experience with Cats.
> 
> But I will say this. I do not think that they are "tumblers". They are just Catalonians, not Catalonian Tumblers. Even though many call them that for some reason. I could be wrong, but from what I have read, they do not tumble. Mine certainly do not.
> 
> I have four and I find the Cats to be very wild like. They are tough to catch in the loft (hence why they are tough for hawks to catch also), as they are very quick. A lot quicker than homers. It is a real hassle to catch them in the loft.
> 
> They also do not like to fly very long. They will take many short flights around, but no long flights. When they do fly, their wings "slap" together and make loud slapping sounds. I believe that the wing tips are meeting above the head and clapping there, to make these sounds. I use to think it was the wing tips hitting underneath the birds when they were flying. But now I believe they are actually clapping above them and not below.
> 
> Maybe someone with better eyesight can verify that.
> 
> P.S. I got lucky and got four Cats for $5 bucks each, from a person on this website. I just put up a "wanted" ad in the "wanted and for sale section" of Pigeon Talk, and someone responded. I of course had to pay for shipping though.


Well mine do tumble but just a single backward flip and only occasionally but these birds are still young. They also plate spin. The wing clapping is when they are showing to the opposite sex but when they take height they fly just like a racing team. I've had mine flying over an hour in the past. I will agree that they are wilder than the average pigeon but a few of mine were tamer so I have bred these in with the wilder ones (to keep the colours) and my loft is much calmer now. Some land on my head and shoulder but they still do not like to be handled. I can pick all but two of my birds (19) up no problem and some cocks will actually fight me off, He He! but they still struggle in the hand (very annoying). If you want your cats flying better you need to breed a team all roughly the same age (easier) separate them at around 30 days old, keep them on their own. Feed them all they want for the first two weeks then cut back when they have had a good look around, just starting to fly around loft and trapping well. When they lose some weight they will start flying longer and further. Feed them light and you will get them flying well. Maybe visit a roller site and see how they train and feed. The first year I had them they flew just like yours but I assure you do as above and you will have them flying well. Are you sure they are pure Catalonians?


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## conditionfreak

I'm not sure how I can be sure. But I bought them from here and showed them to a fellow flyer that has had them for many many years. He specializes in them and said that he would not hesitate to breed his with mine. He said they pass all of the tests that indicate they are Catalonians. Eyesign, behavior and general appearance. He is giving me four Cat squeakers next week. The four that I have are a few years old and are all cocks. They are pestering the heck out of my homer hens. 

Maybe some day I will see them tumble, but from what I have read on other sites and from what my friend tells me, they do not tumble. He has had them for forty years and that although there are some that allegedly tumble, he has never had any that did or do.

I'm not saying that they do not tumble ever (after all, most people do call them "tumblers" and obviously have a reason for that). But his and mine do not tumble. I only have four but he has many and has had Cats for forty years and trades them with others from around the country every so often.

Interesting discussion. I assume that tumbling is genetic and is not a taught trait?


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## tumshy

conditionfreak said:


> I'm not sure how I can be sure. But I bought them from here and showed them to a fellow flyer that has had them for many many years. He specializes in them and said that he would not hesitate to breed his with mine. He said they pass all of the tests that indicate they are Catalonians. Eyesign, behavior and general appearance. He is giving me four Cat squeakers next week. The four that I have are a few years old and are all cocks. They are pestering the heck out of my homer hens.
> 
> Maybe some day I will see them tumble, but from what I have read on other sites and from what my friend tells me, they do not tumble. He has had them for forty years and that although there are some that allegedly tumble, he has never had any that did or do.


The breed is vast and varied but I know that in Catalonia they must have a pearl eye or bull eye if they have white head. The wings are held obove the tail and the wing tips shoud be aprox. half inch from end of tail and not crossed. Mine are cap de frere (white cap) so have the bull eye. Very difficult to get here in Scotland but eventually found some, cost me the equivalent of 30 dollars.. The guy only bred for colour so these birds had never been out. They varied slightly in size but eventually I started getting the youngsters I wanted. They should be no bigger than a flying roller and have an upright (proud) stance. I had my birds flying well until they matured and started fooling around with each other. I also ended up with five spare cocks and they really enjoy a good old scrap over a perch and they were doing my head in, He He! I was too soft and let them pair up thinking they would still fly well but I need to revise my loft arrangements now to get them separated if I want to get them flying again. The youngsters would plate spin in the loft (amazing) and they are only now starting to tumble as yearlings. I read somewhere that the best rollers will only begin rolling around 18 months to 2 years old so the cats may well be the same with tumbling. 
I would keep the squeekers on their own and treat as I said previously. The main thing really is not to over feed. Give them all they want for the first couple weeks and that way they will not(hopefully) go too far and get lost but once they are up and running (flying, He He!) get them on rations to take the weight off. I've found out there is more to this flying game than meets the eye. Have fun


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## Guest

I like this thread as I have always heard alot about this breed so have always been very interested in them myself so keep up with the knowledge and keep us (me) informed in case I decide to buy a pair or 2 myself s I know what to expect  thanks


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## tumshy

LokotaLoft said:


> I like this thread as I have always heard alot about this breed so have always been very interested in them myself so keep up with the knowledge and keep us (me) informed in case I decide to buy a pair or 2 myself s I know what to expect  thanks


That's good you are enjoying it and I would not hesitate to recommend you get a couple of pairs. These birds (well the ones I have) are very pretty indeed and hold themselves very proud like saying "look at me" He He! but to top it all they are very competent flyers as well. Read this link http://www.cichlidlovers.com/birds_cats_bill_hart.htm 
I hope it makes your mind up to get some. There is not a lot of information regarding these wee birds so if anyone can input any it will be greatly appreciated. When I decided to get pigeons again after around a 35 year break I took my time and surfed the net to see what types fitted my requirements. They had to be flyers, small and appealing to the eye. I came across pictures of the Cats and liked the look of them. I had never heard of this breed before and there was not a lot of info about but the more I seen and read the more attracted I was to them. The above link was one of the deciders for me along with the fact that these birds were in decline even in Catalonia. During the Spanish civil war food for the people was scarce never mind pigeons so a lot of patterns and colours were lost forever and today the old fanciers are dying out and it appears young people are not as interested in pigeons. They come in all colours (some of which are unique to Catalonians) and a myriad of patterns and the saying “A wardrobe of a thousand costumes” refers to this. My favourite pattern is culliblanc (white tail) and the red culliblanc are majestic in my eyes. Unfortunately the only available pattern (and most common worldwide) in Scotland that I have found are the cap de frere (white caps) which are also very pretty but I would love to have some red and black culliblancs. The cats’ plumage is silky soft and the dark colours (intense) absolutely shine. The metallic iridescent sheen normally seen on the breast and neck of pigeons continues down the body and back of the cats and I have a black hen that just glimmers in the sunlight. They are very alert and active birds and are very easy to breed. I have some very tame birds now but to start with the birds I had were very "wild" in the loft and were a pain to catch, even some youngsters I bred and handled a lot from day one stayed wild but I had a few that were "friendly" and especially two hens which are very attractive and correct conformation (in my eyes) that I crossed with the "wild ones" to keep all the colours I had. They still wriggle in the hand though which is annoying when you want to check them out. The only advice I can give is to try and visit the loft you are getting the birds from and watch the birds on offer. They should have an upright stance, smaller and certainly not larger than a Birmingham roller. Stouter beak and wattle than a Birmingham. Pearl eye unless white on head it should be bull eyed. 12 tail feathers. Wings held above tail aprox. half inch from end of tail and not crossed. Hope you do decide to get a few. Have fun  Chazz.


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## conditionfreak

tumshy, do you have any info on there being two different sizes of Cats? A smaller size and a bigger size (almost the size of a homer)?

The reason I ask is that the person I purchased my Cats from, said he had both the smaller and the larger sized Cats. It was confusing to me as I could not find any info on there being different sizes, on the internet.


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## tumshy

conditionfreak said:


> tumshy, do you have any info on there being two different sizes of Cats? A smaller size and a bigger size (almost the size of a homer)?
> 
> The reason I ask is that the person I purchased my Cats from, said he had both the smaller and the larger sized Cats. It was confusing to me as I could not find any info on there being different sizes, on the internet.


Don't know the answer to that one. Never came accross it before but info on these wee birds is limited. I know some of the youngsters I breed vary from tiny, like a figurita to just larger than a Birmingham roller. I do not breed from the ones that are on the larger side. This is one of the smallest breeds you can get so I think the homer sized ones have been crossed at some stage. I read somewhere that the Spanish breeders were not happy with the French fanciers as they did not uphold the Spanish breeders standard and their birds were larger. Although this breed has many more traits than most breeds I feel the most important ones are size, shape and stance but more importantly that they can fly well. If it were me I'd go for the small ones. What patterns and colours does he and yourself have?


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## Nish flyers

hi guys i just want to know are they fly high like tipplers and I'm planning to perches a pair of these birds do you guys know anyone who able to ship them to sri lanka so i can buy them? thanks for the time effort.

Peter Damien


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