# for the people who didnt believe me



## 19pigeonracer88 (Nov 13, 2011)

http://forum.pigeonbasics.org/topic/2209-sma-gold/ theres a link that shows that it is ok and even good to use sma baby milk on breeders food or water especially the older birds that r feeding there young.


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## horseart4u (Jun 16, 2011)

whats SMA?


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## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

Sounds interesting...have no idea what SMA is or where to get it.


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## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

Just googled it. It's an infant formula milk replacer sold in Europe. Evidently Enfamil and Similac are similar. Wish I actually knew some one who uses it.


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## 19pigeonracer88 (Nov 13, 2011)

i do and my father did even before i was born but no one believed me u could use it so thgouth id show a thread from another forum where the descusion has taken place and top fliers in the uk use it to the older birds can feed there own younge healthily


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## 19pigeonracer88 (Nov 13, 2011)

best results r with garlic oil on the corn mixed together and left to dry for half hour


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## Ashby Loft (Aug 31, 2007)

Using baby formula as a supplement is interesting to me. I did a little looking at the ingredients and it should be really similar to using whey protein powder but with added fat from vegetable oils. I know one of Frank Mclaughlin's tips is to use whey protein powder on the feed for growing pigeons. I wonder if it would be beneficial to mix the two and get the protein a little higher. The good fats in the baby and all that protein might grow some nice strong youngsters.


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## GEMcC5150 (Oct 24, 2010)

I think it is funny that SMA seems to be used a lot in the UK and pigeon people in the US have never herded of it. That is one of the best thing about PT we get to learn from different people all over the world.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Unless I'm missing something...all I see, from the link you provided, is a link to another forum with some saying they use baby formula as a supplement ....SO WHAT!


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## 19pigeonracer88 (Nov 13, 2011)

people said no one uses it thatws the point!! people say it cant be used eitha so proved a point thats the point of forums isnt it !!!!


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## 19pigeonracer88 (Nov 13, 2011)

you can use cow and gate infosoya and that has no lactose in it wich the pigeons dont benfit from in any case but ive never tried the cow and gate one so i may give it a go this season,


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

19pigeonracer88 said:


> http://forum.pigeonbasics.org/topic/2209-sma-gold/ theres a link that shows that it is ok and even good to use sma baby milk on breeders food or water especially the older birds that r feeding there young.


 Maybe it is a valid idea, maybe not, I certainly don't know.

I am simply reminded of what my mother and grandmother use to say about other people jumping off the Brooklyn Bridge, does that mean I should ? People give their birds all kinds of crazy things. I would like to see something akin to the Food and Drug Administration saying that providing your birds with milk has been shown to be beneficial. Now the FDA does not provide such testing for pigeons. So anyone can concoct some idea of giving XYZ, and then someone else says he does it and it is great. Now to me, that is not very useful in terms of why I should give my birds something, but that is me. 

If I were to provide my birds with every product that is pushed or sold by someone, it would require an entire warehouse of sorts to store it all. And no one has ever convinced me that the answer to building a great race team or breeding a great Champion, comes out of a bottle, tube, box, can, etc. I do think it can distract people from what is really important.


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## 19pigeonracer88 (Nov 13, 2011)

all i stated in my previouse thread wich is why i started this one is that i feed my older breeders the 8 9 year old breedders bay milk on there food with oils for extra protein and fats from the oils as i let them feed naturaly at that age and the younge birds didnt turn out half as well as when i was feeding them on the baby formula, bearing in mind im from the uk england and 70% of people use it hear ure in the states and its people from the states saying it cant be used so i was mearly showing that people all over the uk ahve used it for years to give there youneg brids best chances we dont but all the multi vit or redcell like alot of american do we use garlic and baby food with the od bit of brewers yeast that is all our birds get apart from treatment for paratythoid or how ever its spelt. so like i sed i was just showing the americans saying its now possible to do this british have done it for centurys!
most people dnt waste there money buying treatments when it can be done naturaly


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

human baby formula is too expensive for me to feed to my pigeons...and they are fine without it. so the need is not there. I have heard though that soy baby formula can be mixed with a chicken crumbles to hand feed orphans if one can not find the hand feeding formula for birds.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

19pigeonracer88 said:


> *most people dnt waste there money buying treatments when it can be done naturaly *


So whats NATURAL about baby formula milk - absolutely nothing, and the debate goes on as to whether "baby formula milk" is/isnt better than breast feeding for new born babies.
Its man made and in nature - Pigeons just do not naturally drink milk of any sort so why give it in any shape or form ?

Bear in mind that the word milk in "crop milk" is rather confusing as it is just a word that we use to identify the secretion/liquid fed by the parents to the birds, it is in no way related to the "milk" that nearly everyone uses everyday.
The actual definitions of milk are 
1.A whitish liquid containing proteins, fats, lactose, and various vitamins and minerals that is produced by the mammary glands of all mature female *mammals* after they have given birth and serves as nourishment for their young.
2.The milk of cows, goats, or other animals, used as food by *humans*.
3.A liquid, such as coconut milk, milkweed sap, plant latex, or various medical emulsions, that is similar to milk *in appearance*.





SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Maybe it is a valid idea, maybe not, I certainly don't know.
> 
> I am simply reminded of what my mother and grandmother use to say about other people jumping off the Brooklyn Bridge, does that mean I should ? People give their birds all kinds of crazy things.....So anyone can concoct some idea of giving XYZ, and then someone else says he does it and it is great. Now to me, that is not very useful in terms of why I should give my birds something, but that is me..


Couldnt agree more


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## SouthTown Racers (Jan 14, 2009)

Quazar said:


> So whats NATURAL about baby formula milk - absolutely nothing, and the debate goes on as to whether "baby formula milk" is/isnt better than breast feeding for new born babies.
> Its man made and in nature - Pigeons just do not naturally drink milk so why give it in any shape or form ?
> 
> Bear in mind that the word milk in "crop milk" is rather confusing as it is just a word that we use to identify the secretion/liquid fed by the parents to the birds.
> ...


Im not for it or againt it, but it does share a lot of the same ingredients assome of these VERY high priced supplements sold at the supply houses.....interesting


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## 19pigeonracer88 (Nov 13, 2011)

theres no lactose in the formulka we use only proteins and fats which the older feeders lose as they get older!!!!


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## 19pigeonracer88 (Nov 13, 2011)

and we dnt use it as milk we use it the same as ne one uses brewers yeast!!!


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

19pigeonracer88 said:


> *theres no lactose in the formulka *we use only proteins and fats which the older feeders lose as they get older!!!!


Ingredients in all SMA Gold Products.
Reduced minerals whey, vegetable oils, skimmed milk powder, *lactose*, emulsifiers(soya lecithin and monoglycerides of fatty acids), calcium chloride, potassium bicarbonate, sodium citrate, vitamin C, taurine, potassium hydroxide, ferrous, sulphate, potassium citrate, zinc sulphate, cytidine-5'-monophosphate, calcium hydroxide, disodium uridine-5'-monophosphate, vitamin E, antioxidant(tocopherol-rich extract),adenosine-5'- monophosphate, niacin, disodium inosine-5'-monophosphate, disodium guanosine-5'-monophosphate, pantothenic acid, vitamin A, copper sulphate, potassium chloride, thiamin, vitaminB6, riboflavin, beta-carotene, mananese sulphate, folic acid, potassium iodide, vitamin K, sodium selenite, biotin, vitamin D, vitamin B12.

Nutrition Information on all SMA Gold Products.
Typical values per 100 ml reconstituted.
Energy 280 kJ 67 kcal,Protein 1.5 g
whey 0.9 g,casein 0.6 g
Carbohydrates 7.2 g,of which sugar 7.2 g
of which,*lactose 7.2 g*,Fat 3.6 g
of which,saturates 1.6 g,unsaturates 2.0 g
of which LCPs, 19 mg,of which Arachidonic Acid (AA) 12 mg,Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA) 7mg, Fibre Nil, Sodium 0.016 g.
Vitamin A 78 ug of which beta-carotene 2.5 ug, Vitamin D1.1ug, Vitamin E 0.74 mg, Vitamin C 9.0 mg, Thiamin 0.1 mg, Riboflavin 0.15 mg, Niacin 0.9 mg, Vitamin B6 0.06 mg, Folic Acid 8.0 ug, Vitamin B12 0.2 ug, Biotin 0.002 mg, Pantothenic Acid 0.3 mg, Vitamin K 6.7 ug, Choline 10 mg, Taurine 4.7 mg, Nucleotides 3.0 mg.
Calcium 46 mg, Phosphorus 33 mg, Iron 0.8 mg, Magnesium 6.4 mg, Zinc 0.6 mg, Iodine 10 ug, Chloride 43mg, Copper 0.033 mg. Potassium 70 mg, Selenium 1.4 ug.....


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## 19pigeonracer88 (Nov 13, 2011)

Glucose Syrup, Vegetable Oils, Soy Protein Isolate, Calcium Carbonate, Potassium Chloride, Magnesium Hydrogen Phosphate, Potassium Citrate, Calcium Phosphate, Vitamin C, Choline Chloride, I-Tryptophan, Taurine, Sodium Chloride, I-Methionine, Inositol, I-Carnitine, Iron Sulphate, Zinc Sulphate, Potassium Hydroxide, Vitamin A, Vitamin D, Vitamin E, Pantothenic Acid, Niacin, Vitamin B12, Riboflavin, Beta-Carotene, Manganese Sulphate, Thiamin, Vitamin B6, Copper Sulphate, Potassium Iodide, Folic Acid, Vitamin K, Biotin. 

noooo laacctttooooseeeee baby formula for lactose intollerent kids!!!!!


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## 19pigeonracer88 (Nov 13, 2011)

19pigeonracer88 said:


> you can use cow and gate infosoya and that has no lactose in it wich the pigeons dont benfit from in any case but ive never tried the cow and gate one so i may give it a go this season,


read and you will see!!!


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## dublin boy (Jun 4, 2011)

i use s.m.a every year when the birds are breeding , its great stuff....strong, robust , healthy youngsters .

the whey powder is also very good .

but make sure birds are free from worms and cocci first, as they will thrive when useing these products .

,


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## 19pigeonracer88 (Nov 13, 2011)

the gte garlic through there parents as they get garlic in there water every other day natural remady for worms and when they go into the youngebird loft on there own they get there jabs at the vets and canker treatment then theyre left on the garlic every other day a bit of brewers yeast and poultry spices now n then thats all, what sma do you use dublin boy? im gna go over to cow and gate infosoya as cuts out the lactose as pigeons do not need this


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## M Kurps (Mar 19, 2009)

Found this in a book. As you can see back when they were using milk.
Kurps


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## dublin boy (Jun 4, 2011)

19pigeonracer88 said:


> the gte garlic through there parents as they get garlic in there water every other day natural remady for worms and when they go into the youngebird loft on there own they get there jabs at the vets and canker treatment then theyre left on the garlic every other day a bit of brewers yeast and poultry spices now n then thats all, what sma do you use dublin boy? im gna go over to cow and gate infosoya as cuts out the lactose as pigeons do not need this


i think its the [infant] formula,3 to 6 months,ill have a look tomorro,powder type of course, they do lactose free formulas too, personally i would`nt class garlic as a wormer, hair worm,round worm,tape worm ,you reckon that garlic rids the bird of all these ? i know garlic is good,i use it, but not that good .

just my opinion .


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## APF_LOFT (Aug 9, 2010)




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## dublin boy (Jun 4, 2011)

APF_LOFT said:


>


what are you confused about ?


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I still believe colostrum is better, which is what I'd use rather than baby formula. That's just me. I agree with "cowman" on your link.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

dublin boy said:


> i think its the [infant] formula,3 to 6 months,ill have a look tomorro,powder type of course, they do lactose free formulas too, personally i would`nt class garlic as a wormer, hair worm,round worm,tape worm ,you reckon that garlic rids the bird of all these ? i know garlic is good,i use it, but not that good .
> 
> just my opinion .


Garlic is good for a LOT of different things. Garlic is more of a preventative than a treatment. If your birds actually have a worm problem they should be medicated. Some other natural wormers are pumpkin seeds and cayenne pepper.


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## rpalmer (Mar 10, 2011)

MaryOfExeter said:


> Garlic is good for a LOT of different things. Garlic is more of a preventative than a treatment. If your birds actually have a worm problem they should be medicated. Some other natural wormers are pumpkin seeds and cayenne pepper.


I knew pumpkin seeds work but did not know if a pigeon could/would eat them. They seem big to me.


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## 19pigeonracer88 (Nov 13, 2011)

we had our birds poo sent off to check for every thing they allhad swab and we spent 200 on testing and every single thign came back negative no form of worms ne thing and we never use wormer jsut garlic i dont use wormer wid mydogs eitha just garlic,


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## Happy (Dec 19, 2004)

*Thanks 19 Pigeon Racer*

Hi 19PigeonRacer88
I thank you for you Hints/imputs. Why do so many of you on this forum demand Proof on what someone have found that have been helpful to them over many yrs. & have been good enough to share with you?. Many of us have learned over Many decades things that are helpful. We learned "without the Internet". Just because it isn't on the Internet doesn't mean it isn't good! I have never used this product, but have an open mind & thankful for the sharing. I have found in my many yrs. of racing that many Vets just don't know what is right for Racing Pigeons when they are stressed, but are right there to collect the money. Many times they just get the fecal/blood test, send them out & if they are lucky find out what is wrong, but mostly too late to save them.. I thank anyone that has "Raced" for long periods of time giving their Hints as there are many.
Happy


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