# breeding for color



## airforce#1 (Dec 13, 2001)

I am so glad to have found this site. I have been looking for at lest 6 months now.








My question is Iam about to purchase 1 pair of Racing Homers and I would like to know how to get the most different colors I can With just the 1 pair. I dont now much about genitics. I just know I like about every color there is, but my favorite is any color splashed. Iam going to a pigeon show and auction in longview Wa on the 15th of Dec Please help me if you can.

PS: back in the hobby after 15 yrs.


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## raynjudy (Aug 22, 2000)

AF1 writes, in part: "...I would like to know how to get the most different colors I can With just the 1 pair."

It seems to me that attempting to create a loft from just one pair is courting disappointment, if not disaster. There just isn't enough of a gene pool to create too many healthy variations. 

I do know that some traits are dominant, while others are recessive--they skip generations and appear only once in a while.
I will happily defer to the experienced here...

Why not post your question in the "For Sale" section? These guys know first hand what combinations yield what results.

Good luck and welcome aboard!

--Ray


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## airforce#1 (Dec 13, 2001)

raynjudy:
Thank for your reply. I was starting to think no one would.

I just want to start out with one pair then interduce a racing homer from some one else out of state to breed to the first pairs baby. But Iam glad you reminded me to be careful about inbreeding. 

I will take your advice and post in the for sale. Is that a more popular site.

Thanks again Aim High Airforce!


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## Nancy (Nov 7, 2001)

Dear Airforce1,
You just live across the state of washington from our loft. We have some homing pigeons with different coloring and patterns we could sell you in the spring.
Let me know if you are interested in seeing JPGs of them. I'd be happy to take some jpgs and attach them to an email.
Sincerely,
Nancy


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## airforce#1 (Dec 13, 2001)

Nancy

Thank you for your offer. I would love some
Jpgs from you.

Did you know that there is a pigeon show and auction at the cowlitz county fairgrounds this sat
12-15-01 in longview, Wa.

Althought I am not sure of the time, the fairgrounds told me to stop at a minute mart and talk to the owner how is puting on the event. I hope to find some racing homers there.

PS: Its nice to hear from someone close by.


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## Nancy (Nov 7, 2001)

Be careful what birds you bring into your healthy loft. Please keep them isolated for at least two weeks. I'll try to get some JPGs tomorrow at 4:30 a.m. while I am feeding the birds.
Sincerely,
Nancy


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## airforce#1 (Dec 13, 2001)

NANCY
Do you know how to get the most voriatey of colors from 2 racing homers what color cock and what color hen?


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## raynjudy (Aug 22, 2000)

Forgive my simple mind, but it would seem to me that two pigeons of the same breed but with opposite coloration would give all kinds of variants in their offspring, while retaining the desirable traits of the breed, no?

AF1, Nancy's advice on quarantine for new arrivals is very wise, I'd heed it. I'd also plan to vaccinate against PMV & paratyphoid too. You may want to read the posts on bleach and/or vinegar.

PIGEONS FOREVER!!!

--Ray


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## Nancy (Nov 7, 2001)

Dear Af1,
I am not learned in the field of genetics but there are quite a few good sites on genetics and breeding for traits and coloring. Although in my own way of thinking there are always variables and nothing is an exact science. In other words there may be something in a bird you cannot see with your own physical eye that is in the birds genetics that will cause them to produce a color variation or trait you didn't expect. One such site is Frank Mosca's @ http://www.angelfire.com/ga3/pigeongenetics/index1.html. 
Also, as Ray and his wife said it isn't particularly wise to interbreed two pigeons offsprings. You may end up with birds that are unhealthy and still never get the colors you were seeking. Give great consideration to what they said.
Anyway, I'm on the way to capture some JPG's for you.
Sincerely,
Nancy

[This message has been edited by Nancy (edited December 14, 2001).]


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## turmani (Aug 29, 2001)

AF#1,

See your other post in the sale section.

Ray, you also wrote:

"It seems to me that attempting to create a loft from just one pair is courting disappointment, if not disaster. There just isn't enough of a gene pool to create too many healthy variations."

Sorry, that's just not true. It can be done and most of mine all go back to single pair foundations and I will put ALOT of money on mine for vigour against anyone else's and I can also back alot of history up to go with it.

The real problem is, most people just don't have the grit to build a bloodline on a limited number of birds to push inbreeding and linebreeding to the level that is needed. The fact is, the selection process must be VERY tough and alot of people just can't do that.

If someone just wants to raise a few pigeons as pets or to look at, having an expanded genepool is quite alright, but it just does not work for competitive animals simply because the genepool must be quite limited. If it is too wide, there is too much variation in the birds to really yield consistant results. This is why many breeders may have a great winner, but the great winner never really reproduces itself.
If a person is breeding animals competitively, they must as a group come as close to the standard as possible and be as uniform as possible.

Maybe more on this later if I have the time. Unfortunately, my schedule has been VERY VERY tight and I haven't had much opportunity for anything else.

K.D. 

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## airforce#1 (Dec 13, 2001)

To every one that has responded to my quistions.

Thank you very much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!











































My plan at the pigeon show will be to pick a cock one color and a hen another, and to find out what colors thier parents are.

If I dont find a pair I like well then its of to the Nationals in tacoma. Its only an 1 1/2 hours from home.

So I can waite if need be, its been 15 yrs since I have had Pigeons, 10 yrs since Ive wanted them again. And I have been working on my loft for a year. 

I will let you all Know if I come home with a pair this weekend, the show is tomorrow the 15th.


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## raynjudy (Aug 22, 2000)

K.D. writes, in part: "The real problem is, most people just don't have the grit to build a bloodline on a limited number of birds to push inbreeding and linebreeding to the level that is needed. The fact is, the selection process must be VERY tough and alot of people just can't do that."

I understand. "Grit" may be a euphemism, but I suppose that is subjective too. For me, the consequences of what you so delicately describe are unacceptable. But your point is well made. Thanks.

--Ray


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## indie backroll (Aug 3, 2001)

My advise to you would be to get the book called True Spinning Rollers II from foys pigeon supply, it has a chapter in it all about breeding for color and what combinations give you what colors. Its a great book-a little scientific but it should give you the idea. I beleive it was $29.95
~Brian


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## airforce#1 (Dec 13, 2001)

RaynJudy:
I dont no for sure what grit and selection process is.

But if it is what I think. I wanted to let you know that I never have or will cull any of my pigeons. Each and every one of my birds will be to special for that. Wining a race or a show is just not worth it to me.

I will never forget when I was 14 yrs old and was promised a pair of Racing Homers if I cleaned out 3 very large lofts. Not only did I not receive my compensation for the work. I watched the owner of the lofts rip off a Racing Homers head for sitting on the roof 10 min and not going in.

I would of been happy to take that pigeon home.

I is to bad Life or Death of a pigeon all depends on wining a materialistic prize!

PS: I should of posted my Pigeon purchase under this same subject, but I changed topics
and its under JUST BROUGHT HOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## raynjudy (Aug 22, 2000)

AF1 writes, in part: I dont know for sure what the grit and selection process is.

Of course you do, and you've nailed it beautifully in the rest of your post.

--Ray


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## raynjudy (Aug 22, 2000)

Recommended reading: See "oriental roller dies" thread on this forum.

--Ray


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