# Injured Sparrow Not Eating



## Howard Nye (Oct 14, 2009)

Hi all,

A friend of mine told me that her dog attacked a sparrow. She brought the sparrow to the emergency vet, who confirmed that the sparrow had no puncture wounds, but that the sparrow did have a dislocated shoulder and thus could not yet be released. 

My friend brought me the sparrow. When I put the sparrow in a kennel, she seemed alert and active. She settled down and spent most of the last 18 hours sleeping with her head tucked under her wing. But this morning she was again alert - jumping around and trying to fly as much as possible.

My main immediate concern with the sparrow is that it doesn't look like she's eaten or had anything to drink (although she may have taken a very quick drink; it looked a bit like she did so but I couldn't quite tell). I've set her up with improvised dishes (old jam jar tops) filled with water and sunflower chips - as our bird shop told me that sparrows prefer sunflower chips and that it's a balanced diet for them. The bird looks a bit young to me, but is clearly fully fledged and I think would definitely be flying were it not for the shoulder injury. 

Does anyone know how long it's OK for a bird to go without eating and / or drinking? If the bird continues not to eat I assume that I'll need to start syringe-feeding. I have Kaytee Exact hand feeding formula, and am used to feeding it to an adult pigeon of mine who has been recovering from a crop infection. But the sparrow is so small, and I'm afraid of stressing her. As such, I was wondering (1) what amount I should feed the sparrow and (2) if it's safe for a sparrow to be syringe-fed (or is the risk of heart attack, etc. from syringe-feeding is too great). 

One other thing - I have the sparrow in a pretty large dog kennel, where she can hop around and try to fly (I also set up a nest-box inside for her to hide and some perches for her to hop on). Is this a good environment for her, or, because she has the dislocated shoulder, should she be confined to a smaller environment? (A related issue about the size of the kennel is that, although I don't think she can fit through the spaces in the bars on the door of the kennel, she can get her head through, and she did try a few times to see if she could squeeze out.) 

Thanks so much,
Howard


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## Turdus (Aug 14, 2013)

It sounds like the dislocation wasn't fixed in which case a trip to an avian vet is in order. Black oil sunflower seed would be something they would enjoy but a seed diet isn't a balanced diet at all.

A bird can't go without eating or drinking for very long and it should be apparent from looking at its droppings. Kaytee Exact formula should be OK since it's not a nestling.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Depending on the species a sparrow is non native and a vet would probably have to put it down if it can't be released. , which may be more humane than keeping it in a cage as it is a wild bird. Only solution is to keep it for a few months and see if it improves, if not then use your best judgement. Me, I would not want to keep a wild bird, I would not be able to euthanize it either.(call me weak) I would probably end up letting it go at a park where there were allot of crumbs from tourist available, and hiding spots, like a theme park with allot of natural areas.


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## Turdus (Aug 14, 2013)

If it was a native species and the original poster is located in the US then it might be euthanized if it couldn't be fixed.

If it's a non-native species then its legal status isn't much different than that of a pet bird (which is typically a non-native species) and the vet will try honor the wishes of the the "owner."


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

That can be true, but it is still a wild bird, pigeons feral came/still comes from domestic stock. vets are told to euth non-native species. I'm sure not many would care for the plight of one sparrow being kept In cage the rest of its life, and there are good vets out there that would do the service for a paying customer, IMO, Each to to his own is the best judge of how to handle it.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I have to agree that a wild sparrow kept in a cage for life would be miserable. Sometimes it isn't the quantity of life, but the quality.
As for eating. Their favorite seed is usually white proso milet. Bet if you give that to the bird, and keep it in a warm and quiet place, it will eat it.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

I agree with spirit wings. You can keep him for few months to recover and release in some Park with natural environment, she will hide herself and eat as well. Let her die with her natural death, everyone has right to live. what is humane about euthanasia when we can't try it on humans?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

kiddy said:


> I agree with spirit wings. You can keep him for few months to recover and release in some Park with natural environment, she will hide herself and eat as well. Let her die with her natural death, everyone has right to live. what is humane about euthanasia when we can't try it on humans?


Actually in some states, we can do that with humans. 
Sometimes a quiet peaceful death may be kinder than being torn apart by a predator, or starving to death because it can't get to food and water without flight. And being left out to fend in all kinds of weather without flight.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Think if a bird is nonreleasable, life in captivity is better than certain death. There are ways to enrich a birds environment. Also maybe a home can be found for the bird with other birds of similar size, temperament, or even species. Has the bird been looked at by an avian vet to see if the dislocation can be fixed?


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Jay3 said:


> Actually in some states, we can do that with humans.
> Sometimes a quiet peaceful death may be kinder than being torn apart by a predator, or starving to death because it can't get to food and water without flight. And being left out to fend in all kinds of weather without flight.



Sorry I never knew about such States but then it should be wherever we have right to euthanize an animal. Even if it becomes a prey of predator that would be a natural death. I know it feels bad to think something dying being torn apart even I can get faint seeing such situation, still think about if we put every other animal to sleep for not being a prey what would predators eat? Won't they starve to death, even if it kills to see how they survive but they are designed to feed upon them. Starving won't be easy for them too in same way as it is not easy for sparrows? Why we think about one and forget other when both are lives. It is just that they are designed to eat on sparrows/birds while birds are to eat upon insects/grains whatever. Even insects feel the same pain when we crush and kill them (I m not talking about exceptions here like me, cwebster or one other poster who save them and may be you but talking about common doings). Humans think of humane end for critters if it was so humane it should have been adopted for humans first because they deserve humanity more than anyone being humans. Sorry if anything is offensive but it kills me when we can't give life to anyone why we take away someone's life? because it is in our hand? Harming someone shouldn't be in our hand


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

cwebster said:


> Think if a bird is nonreleasable, life in captivity is better than certain death. There are ways to enrich a birds environment. Also maybe a home can be found for the bird with other birds of similar size, temperament, or even species. Has the bird been looked at by an avian vet to see if the dislocation can be fixed?



You are right and you are taking such a great care of your disabled rescues, they would have been put to sleep if in wrong hands but your phoebe is living since good 8 years and love you so much. Thanks again for saving them as I always say.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Harming someone really shouldn't be in our hands. I have had to have animals euthanized and it is always very hard...have only done it when they are really suffering and there is no hope of any kind of treatment or help. I also sat with my mother in intensive care while she was dying of lung cancer and when she seemed to be suffering horribly, asked the staff for more morphine for her, knowing that there is a tradeoff between pain relief and breathing. It was really hard and I hope I eased her passage, although she didn't die right away, but never want to have to do that again. Just euthanizing any living thing for convenience, or because you don't want them around anymore, is really really not OK in my book. My old vet earned my respect because he refused to euthanize a dog he had been treating for years; the family said, we're tired of him, we want a new puppy.


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## Turdus (Aug 14, 2013)

Take the bird to an avian vet. Fix the wing. Send the bill to the dog owner. Release bird when ready.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If you guys know anything about wildlife, then you would know that to have your life over is sometimes better then 5 more years in a cage. Some wild things are just not happy sitting in a jail for years. There is a middle line here, and some just go too far over to one side. But that isn't always thinking about the animals welfare. That is seeing things only one way. Need to look at things from both ways. Sometime it may feel good to save a life, but sometimes it isn't really in the animals best interest. Need to look at it from different angles.
And Kiddy, I don't think that putting one bird to sleep to avoid it becoming lunch while still alive, or starving a slow death, is going to make the predators starve. Lots of other lunches out there. Sometimes keeping things alive is better, and sometimes not. I think some have to learn that. It's not that simple.
And Turdus, the dog owner would not be held responsible for the injury to a wild bird.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Jay3 said:


> If you guys know anything about wildlife, then you would know that to have your life over is sometimes better then 5 more years in a cage. Some wild things are just not happy sitting in a jail for years. There is a middle line here, and some just go too far over to one side. But that isn't always thinking about the animals welfare. That is seeing things only one way. Need to look at things from both ways. Sometime it may feel good to save a life, but sometimes it isn't really in the animals best interest. Need to look at it from different angles.
> And Kiddy, I don't think that putting one bird to sleep to avoid it becoming lunch while still alive, or starving a slow death, is going to make the predators starve. Lots of other lunches out there. Sometimes keeping things alive is better, and sometimes not. I think some have to learn that. It's not that simple.
> And Turdus, the dog owner would not be held responsible for the injury to a wild bird.


Well I usually ignore arguing because I respect everyone's opinion except for if I want to learn something from someone. I think and re think from all the ways still I couldn't convince myself yet about putting someone to sleep. 
I don't know Jay if I am seeing just by one way but I really don't know what the bird is interested in, life or death because I can't ask it or it can't reply me. But as I see human prisoners in jail living miserable lives for crimes and some times innocents, they don't file petition for death sentence. In my life I just saw one girl asking death who had an acid attack on face and after many surgeries she couldn't get her face back while the attacker was living well on bail so after being frustrated of laws and delayed verdicts over such crimes she filed a petition for death. Few months back a criminal got death sentence but he asked for life time imprisonment, the case is still in court however the guy is responsible for a murder. Why prisoners feel better in jail for lifetime and don't want to be executed . I have gone through many cases like it in news papers. We can't say what birds think living in wildlife for 5 years but if they are getting space to move/fly and feed, what else the disabled birds will ask for. 
Even we don't know after being released, will the sparrow be lunch of predator or not and may be she survives for long hiding. So why we take those days from her life based on our assumption and possibilities of being eaten by a predator when we don't know how long her life is. In many cancers, death possibilities are high still we don't opt for death when diagnose it, we still ask doctors how long can we live. This is just because we speak and they speak not. I am just thinking about humans point of view and try seeing their examples only because a bird can't tell us or we can't hear it. Again I am sorry, I just don't mean arguments, this is my mind which poses so many questions, I can't answer it. Many times euthanasia seems to get rid of a disabled bird when we can't help it and satisfy ourselves saying I ended it up humanely.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I'm not trying to argue with you, just trying to get you to see that it is not always so cut and dry. You can't put human emotions on animals. They don't function or think as we do. They live in the moment. They don't think about the things they will miss if they go. The problem is that when you give human emotion and thoughts to animals, then you aren't thinking about what is best for the animal. You are thinking that life, no matter what kind of life is always better. That isn't always true. That's all I am saying. I have seen people who may have a dog with cancer, who is in a lot of pain, but they won't euthanize, as they feel the way you do. So the animal suffers, and lays around in pain with no quality of life whatsoever, when it could have been gently put to sleep and it's pain ended. Going to die anyway, so why not take it a little sooner and avoid the pain and suffering. That is a human feeling, that hanging on to life, no matter what the circumstances, is the best and only way. I am just saying that it isn't always that easy. Sometimes not being is better. There are many people also, who when suffering with a disease, choose to end it sooner, rather than to drag it out. They make the decision that going is better. Those people who ask their doctors how long they have to live, usually mean "how long will I have quality of life?". There are 2 sides to the argument. The thing is in thinking it through and figuring out which is better. Not always easy. 
Anyway, we can't know how well he will be or he will heal, or if he can live a fairly normal life. Can't make that decision until you know. There are 2 sides to be looked at. Sometimes life is better...............sometimes not. But don't put human feelings and emotions on an animal. Even humans do not always choose life. I at least believe that when euthanizing stops or prevents useless pain and suffering, that it is better. Knowing when is sometimes the difficult part.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Agree with kiddy, it is a complex issue. I still would prefer to help rather than euthanize. Living things fight very hard to live. Life is precious. I work in a prison, about half the people have life terms. They have to not only come to terms with what bad things they have done but also with the life sentences. Most find ways to become better people, to give back somehow, and to learn to be happy even without their freedom. Some do not. Even with a serious illness diagnosis, most people want to try to maximize the life they have. All life is eventually terminal...but why rush the inevitable if there are ways to make life as meaningful and happy as it can be? Just a few thoughts... Life is really hard with our complex brains!  still think most disabled birds would prefer to be safe and well fed if kept busy and entertained, rather than just euthanized or killed by a predator in a short brutal life. It is hard because we can't ask them. But we can watch their reactions and infer whether they are still enjoying life.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

cwebster said:


> Agree with kiddy, it is a complex issue. I still would prefer to help rather than euthanize. Living things fight very hard to live. Life is precious. I work in a prison, about half the people have life terms. They have to not only come to terms with what bad things they have done but also with the life sentences. Most find ways to become better people, to give back somehow, and to learn to be happy even without their freedom. Some do not.
> 
> Again, you guys are comparing humans to animals, and putting human emotions on the animals. Can't do that, because their feelings and emotions are not the same.
> How can you decide that all animals would prefer to go on, no matter what their injury or their pain, or their quality of life, or lack of it? How can you know that they would prefer to live in pain, or simply exist, or keep being put through a lot of treatment for something? You can't possibly know that either. That is where the trying to weigh and measure to make that decision comes in. Not all black or white.
> ...


It depends greatly on where you are coming from, and your life experiences how you view life, and the quality of that life, and death.
Sometimes it is not quantity, but quality that counts.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

When I try to help a disabled creature, I do everything I can to maximize the quality of his/her life and watch very carefully to see how they are reacting, that they are feeling as happy as they can be in the moment. I provide the most entertaining environment I can. I can't speak for others and what they do. Like I said, if they seem to be unhappy, I release them if I can (like Crowsy) or keep them in captivity if I can give them a good life (like Phoebe and Fiona pigeons). If they are too ill to help I have them euthanized (as I have done with countless pets when their suffering could no longer be helped). I am done with this thread because I see no point in people countering things I suggest. I know you will do as your philosophy and life circumstances dictate.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

At the beginning of this thread I had said that euthanizing might be the kinder thing to do if he isn't releasable, and doesn't have what he needs to survive in the world.
It was you and Kiddy who came in and disagreed with me. That is fine, as everyone has a right to their opinion. But I believe we were both countering each others opinion with our different points of view.I just don't think that people are always realistic. A wild sparrow would not be happy in a cage for life, and wouldn't do well. Anyway, we don't yet know how well he will be yet.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Sorry Jay, in my first post in this thread I said I agree with spirit wings, I didn't say I disagree with you. 
You said "you and kiddy came in and disagreed with me"  
I respect your opinion too and I learn a lot from you, it is just probably I am high at emotional level so I think much of everyone's emotions even if it is an animal. 
So I never think, animals think for a moment. I may consider this if science gets so advanced and research on their brains like with brain mapping or any other technique so then I may think another way. I totally understand you never have a choice of euthanasia until you have some hope and I respect you for that. Everyone has got his likes and dislikes and I don't like euthanasia because these days every other vet there is practicing this , also many rehabs. They don't even think of first aid, they just find it easy to put them to sleep so I started disliking it even more. 
I am sorry if anything offensive from my side. 

Cwebster : it is so nice that I see a new cwebster today. Earlier I knew only one very calm, caring and emotional  
Now as you ended up this thread being annoyed I add a quality to you but it is very rare and exceptional one from you to remember. 
You found Jay countering your suggestions this time or Jay can find you countering or even me but actually we were only putting our points, nothing to be offended pls, difference of opinions and good conversations make us learn a lot. I find Jay helping people many times contributing numerous posts to this site for helping birds. This seems that our emotions for birds are same, all of us want to save them as priority but if nothing in hand Jay can go for other alternate while I cannot. That's difference in heart. May be I am weak as spirit wings said. 
So when our motives are same, just put some smile on your face and forgive everyone including me if you find or feel anything wrong.
It is so good that we all care for birds so much we can talk for such long time about birds  
Keep helping them always


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Kiddy, I agree that too many choose euthanasia too quickly. Some vets have suggested euthanasia for a simple canker infection. That isn't right either. Those people don't put enough value on another creatures life. Nothing offensive from your side. I don't think you could ever be offensive. We all have reasons why we view things as we do. I think it's interesting hearing from different sides of the same argument.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Yes I do agree with you this time  
And thank you


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Howard, have you tried the millet? Has he eaten anything yet?


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## Howard Nye (Oct 14, 2009)

*Sparrow Almost Certainly Releasable; being Rehabbed at Wildlife*

Hi all,

Sorry for not updating earlier. I was able to get the sparrow seen by my vet (who helps run our Wildlife rehab center here) on Tuesday. My vet examined the sparrow and confirmed that she most likely has a minor collar-bone fracture which simply needs a bit more time to heal. Our Wildlife rehab center actually has a great set-up for rehabbing sparrows; it cares for many of them, and is able to move them to larger and larger enclosures as they recover. My vet told me that she is virtually certain that the sparrow will be releasable (the sparrow actually has significant flying ability; she just needs more recovery time to sustain her lift. According to my vet, even much more injured sparrows are typically releasable after some time). So the sparrow has been transferred to our Wildlife rehab center. Although, as I said, my vet is virtually certain that the sparrow will be releasable, she did tell me that, if anything goes wrong and she isn't, they will call me and I'll have the opportunity to adopt her.

I have five formerly feral, non-releasable birds - including two mated pairs. I don't keep them in cages; they have their own "bird room" in my home (formerly the master bedroom), in which I have their territories separated by screens and baby gates (to prevent certain of them from fighting). They all have very rich, wonderful lives. I'm sure that caring for a sparrow with moderate flying ability would add some complication, but I'd do my best to get her as big a territory as possible, and I'd ask my vet to be on the lookout for any other non-releasable sparrows so I could find a mate for her (as I've done with my other birds).

I strongly agree with cwebster and kiddy. With all due respect, I find it extremely implausible (I'm almost tempted to say 'ridiculous') to think that simply living in a smaller environment is worse than no life at all. There is a well developed literature on psychological adjustment to disability, and there is every reason to think that the same mechanisms are in play with non-human animals - e.g. dogs happily adjusting to life with 3 legs, happy kittens born with two legs, etc., etc. At the very end of life, death may be better than uncontrollable physical suffering. But simply living life in a smaller environment - especially after hedonic adaptation, and with good friends, good food, and room to bathe, build, and play - is absolutely nothing like experiencing uncontrollable physical suffering at the end of life.

Thanks very much,
Howard


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Am so glad the sparrow is likely to recover and that you will take him if he's nonreleasable. Bless you.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Howard Nye said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Sorry for not updating earlier. I was able to get the sparrow seen by my vet (who helps run our Wildlife rehab center here) on Tuesday. My vet examined the sparrow and confirmed that she most likely has a minor collar-bone fracture which simply needs a bit more time to heal. Our Wildlife rehab center actually has a great set-up for rehabbing sparrows; it cares for many of them, and is able to move them to larger and larger enclosures as they recover. My vet told me that she is virtually certain that the sparrow will be releasable (the sparrow actually has significant flying ability; she just needs more recovery time to sustain her lift. According to my vet, even much more injured sparrows are typically releasable after some time). So the sparrow has been transferred to our Wildlife rehab center. Although, as I said, my vet is virtually certain that the sparrow will be releasable, she did tell me that, if anything goes wrong and she isn't, they will call me and I'll have the opportunity to adopt her.
> 
> ...



Thanks so much Howard, it is really good morning for me today after reading your post. You made my day and I mean it. If you had posted your thoughts earlier and things that you adopted 5 non releasable pigeons, I would have no doubt in sparrow's good life no matter how disabled the sparrow was. I just wanted to say that even handicapped has right to live, just because they can't fly, nobody has a right to take their life. People have got their own levels of thoughts, some quit with no hopes but some loose their hopes sooner. And so because of their hopelessness many vets and rehabs are euthanising birds thinking they won't make it, even many are euthanasing them if non releasable. Their is no law of euthanasia which should be as it is a matter of life. It won't hurt seeing if the critter was in severe pain close to death suffering badly and we took off his pain putting him to sleep but it really hurts seeing a non releasable or some time babies misplaced from nests etc in such situations people are going for euthanasia and vets and rehabs easily do it, tho on pt nobody suggest the same . still we have so many examples from posters. 
Hope everyone understand importance of others lives as they understand of themselves.
Thanks a ton for helping him and do update his status even if delayed. Thanks so much


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