# HELP! Is he blind or sick?



## pigeonkid1046 (Nov 16, 2005)

I think I have a bird that is either blind...or very sick. Hopefully this video shows you what he does. Basically, he flies, he flies into stuff. He is extremely skinny. I have to feed him with baby bird formula to keep him alive. He will not eat or drink himself. He seems to be looking around, like he is lost, shaking, and confused. I brought him inside where it is warm and out of the elements. 

I video'ed him for about 40 seconds to show yall what he does. Here is the link.
http://s131.photobucket.com/albums/p285/Tim1046/?action=view&current=HPIM2197.flv

I also noticed that his left nostrol (nose hole) is bleeding slightly. Please help. I'll be on periodically tonight.
Thanks so much!!
~Tim


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Hi Tim, I moved your post to the sick and injured forum so it can get more atttention.
It is not too clear from the video what exactly is wrong with your bird, but s/he certainly has some odd head movements. Doesn't necessarily mean s/he is blind, could be just incoordination. Did you try to shine a light into his eyes to see if the pupils react to light? You can also try to move your hand close to him when he is in a quiet, relaxed state to see if he gets startled. Is he eating or drinking anything on his own? Or is he at least trying?

Reti


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Tim, how old is he? Do you know if he flew in to anything?


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

hi Tim, 



Looks like a fledgling who had starved...or who is seriously malnourished and weak...might be dehydrated also...and these can reliably make for the kinds of postures and movements you are seeing.


PMV can do it also, and time will tell as for that...other illnesses can do it too...


Make sure he is getting plenty of rehydration, with electrolytes...and, allow him as many feedings as he can process and handle...


What have the poops been looking like, color wise, consistancy wise, number in 24 hours, size..?

Keep him definitely "warm" so he is actually warm...

"Warm" means warm...heating pad with a towell on it in a draped cage...kinda warm...



Best wishes!


Phil
l v


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

Hello Tim,

I think I can say he is a squeaker, based on no white on the nares at the top of the beak, no feathers there also.

Looks mostly 
(1) young, 
(2) confused because of being young, and maybe 
(3) scared, because of being hungry, and not having ma or pa around to feed him.

I heard _popping_ noises during the video, maybe artifacts of the audio track. If he heard popping noises also, it might explain his head movements somewhat.

Mostly looks cute and young, and HELPLESS. They need to eat a lot because of rapid growth and development at that age. 

One vet here in Germany said of a young pigeon I brought in who couldn't use his legs or tail (*Luxie-311*) that rapid feather growth was energy-consuming and might cause temporary lack of use of legs. (Luxie-311 is for months old now, lives on the street, and still has no use of his droopy tail, but can use his legs). 

Larry


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

Hello Tim,

Phil/pdpbison is definitely right about keeping him warm. His feathers (the bird's, not Phil's) look a bit too fluffed up, as though he is not doing so well.

I looked for symptoms of PMV in the video clip, since you said he was flying into things. A weak, underfed, uncoordinated pigeon might fly into things a bit. I had a young rescue squeaker who couldn't quite make it to the top of a wardrobe and such things, but it was because of weakness from starvation 

My pigeon squeaker rescue (*Bronzi* had lost all of his tail feathers to a raptor, and was bald on the back from being ostracized and pecked on by other pigeons, which pecking I didn't personally witness but deduced. He was losing weight because of rapid heat loss during the cold nights, from inadequate feather insulation. She/he is now doing well).

The head movements of your bird do not seem as spastic as a pigeon with severe PMV (in my opinion based on limited experience with only a couple of PMV pigeons). 

Larry


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

Hello Tim,

Upon viewing the video clips fourth time, I notice that he rotates to his right. 

The rotation does not look totally normal, but the clip is of short duration. 

Is there something in the background distracting him, which we are not aware of? (What are the "popping," _plosive_ noises?) 

He also seems curious, more than frightened. He made a movement with his beak, what to me seems like "lip-smacking," and I think he is saying something which we humans cannot hear.

After another video viewing, the head movements do not seem "normal" for a healthy squeaker, but somewhat spastic.

He _seems_ to be looking with his eyes, though.

Larry


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## Matt D. (May 12, 2007)

Look pretty normal but... he had extremely rapid head movements and they were to the extremities... almost owl like. Besides that he looks fat... so enough food... i would say he is nervous and would feed him corn, soybeans, safflower, and raw unsalted peanuts and let him get used to his new surroundings if this is going on in a week he might have a nervous disorder. He is about 2 1/2 months old... or around that... he is no longer dependent on his parents. So you wont need to make special food, just seeds and water, separate. You may want to invest in some pmv medication ... if he doesnt have pmv... it will build up his immune system to pmv. http://www.siegelpigeons.com/catalog-pmv.html also read up on it in the "ask ed" section of that page. You may want to watch the video in my signature or brush up on some know-how in my website... keep us posted!


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

Just my opinion, *Matt*,

but I don't think he looks fat. I think he looks a bit too fluffed up, like a sick or underfed pigeon trying to conserve body heat.

A young pigeon might look a bit scraggly due to insufficient feather waterproofing, so it can be hard to tell.

To me a fat healthy pigeon has a sleek, unruffled look to it. A streamlined look. This pigeon's feathers near his legs are a bit fluffed. 

Of course, any pigeon looks like that any number of times a day, but eventually returns to a sleek streamlined look.

When I see a pigeon -- _(a street pigeon)_ -- over-fluffed like that, apart from other pigeons, and the other pigeons look streamlined, then I observe that bird for other signs of needing rescue.

Fortunately I am often enough wrong, and the bird has been merely "airing out" his feathers, or some such thing which I do not fully understand yet.

But I do agree with everyone else that food is very important for this pigeon right now. 

Larry


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Tim, 


Do lots of 'Lap Towell Cave' sessions -


http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=24110


...have some small whole Seeds right under his Beak for him to peck...'peck' with him using your crook'd index finger...be gentle, let him nap on your lap in the arrange...

Keep him on a White Towell over a Heating Pad, in his Draped cage...so you can evaluate the poops...


See if you can get get him self feeding...


Phil
l v


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## A_Smith (Aug 8, 2006)

Here is my 2 cents. The head movement looks like squeeker may be blind in one eye. I have 3 birds that are blind in one eye, and " LOOK " the same way when it is feeding time. Like they are saying. Feeding time yea, Ok now where is it, here, or here, or here. I agree with Reti the easyest way to tell if sight missing from one eye is, by moving hand on one side of head by eye. If bird moves away from hand the bird has seen it. If your hand makes it close without reaction the bird didn't see it. I did not know "Dizzy" was blind when I received him untill I did this.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Blind in one eye?*

Very interesting, A. Smith!

Makes me look at the video clip again and again. Which eye? Interesting puzzle.

Larry


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## Guest (Dec 16, 2007)

I'm sure this is a typical case of PMV.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

He's seems to '_lively_' to be starving. The starving birds I've come across are lethargic & are generally falling face forward.

My guess would be the possibility of blindness (one or both eyes), a neurological issue (caused by smacking into something, etc) or even the onset of PMV.

It wouldn't hurt to have a look at Cynthia's (cyro51) information on PMV. 
http://www.pigeon-aid.pigeon.net/pmv.htm

I would suggest, for the time being anyway, keeping him secure in a small cage or carrier. Place him in a quite area away from family & animal traffic so as not to add any more stress on the little one. 

Please do keep us posted on how he is doing.

Cindy


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I am also pretty convinced this is a case of PMV. The rapid head movements like that and the flying into things are symptoms of it. Also, when he flies, does he fly in circles? That can be another sign. Paratyphoid can also be similar...but normally my pigeons don't try to fly when they have paratyphoid, and they don't straighten their head much. Just keep feeding him and see what happens. There isn't a whole lot you can do other than that, or take him to the vet. He's a squeaker, so medicine is not good for him as it can effect his immune system.


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## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

He has some brain damage from what I can see. He/she turns to the right which means that the left part of his brain is injured or swollen. Also the fact that he turns to his right also may indicate that he can only see out of that eye. It is surely sick. That is what I can see from my opinion. 

Cindy


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

He is a darling little thing! I have watched the video three times and it doesn't look like typical PMV to me. Total blindness is a distinct possibility.

Does he have any other nervous symptoms? Does he appear to see the food? If so, does he try to pick it up? What are his poops like?

This is a thread that describes a blind squeaker:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=20696&referrerid=560

To be on the safe side isolate him from other pigeons until you have established whether he has an infection. Both paratyphoid and PMV can cause blindness.


Cynthia


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

pigeonkid1046 said:


> I think I have a bird that is either blind...or very sick.
> 
> *I also noticed that his left nostrol (nose hole) is bleeding slightly.*
> ~Tim


Tim,
The bleeding could have been caused from the bird bumping into something while attempting to fly, but it could also be indicative of some type of internal issue. 

How is the bird doing this morning?

Cindy


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

He doesn't remind me of being completely blind--more that he's very nervous. I've had a few that were kinda' similar but they tend to just overdo it when attempting flight or landing. In such cases, it's best to keep them in a cage that restricts their movement. If you're very quiet and you move your hands around their faces, you can usually tell something about whether they can see or not by their reactions or lack thereof.

Pidgey


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

It looks like PMV to me as well.


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

Sure is a pretty little birdie. I hope he pulls through whatever it is.


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## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

I'm sorry but to me he looks like he has hurt his melon real hard and has brain swelling going on, it also looks like he shakes his head quit a bit. Also looks like he is swallowing alot too. Is there anyway of getting this little guy into a vet? My vet just recently took and put Ginger my blind Pigeon on the floor stood back and 1 at a time tossed cotton balls beside her to see if she has any reactions to them, I asked why cotton balls she said there is no noise to turn her head toward if she is completely blind. She has no pupil reaction in her right eye and very little in the left, she can only see about 1 inch away in her left. Is this your own personal pigeon or a feral?

Cindy


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## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

Also check the ears and make sure the ears are clear (nothing in them) also looks very weak and dehydrated. 

Cindy


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## pigeonkid1046 (Nov 16, 2005)

Hi guys. I've already did the hand motions to him. He seemed to be somewhat responsive on his right side. He seems to be tilting his head to right and looking around with it all the time. He does not eat, I have to hand feed him. Yes he is a squeaker. LOL! I have him on my leg and he keeps spinning. A bit distracting. I did check his ears for clogging, nothing there. Um...I have him on a bunch of vitamins to try to beef him up, he is extremely skinny. Question though....how will I go about feeding him if he is completely blind? I don't know if I will be able to hand feed him a few times a day. I have a job and still attend school.... If anyone wants to call me...you can private message me and I will give you my cell phone number. Thanks. 
~Tim


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## pigeonkid1046 (Nov 16, 2005)

Naturegirl- This is a personal bird. I will try the cotton ball trick. I will see if I can get him...her....it...(LOL) to the vet.


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## pigeonkid1046 (Nov 16, 2005)

And he did fly fine....he is about 2 weeks out of the nest. He was quite the performer. He is a little roller. AH! He just tried to fly, did a flip in the air and hit the computer screen.....I just did the hand motion thing again, he seems to be responsive on his left side...not right...sorry.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Sounds more like something neurological but which is kinda' unclear. Personally, I'd put him on Baytril in case it's a Paratyphoid (that family of diseases can cause neurological symptoms as well as blindness). You're going to have to run the risk that it's PMV. Don't let him fly or out in the open in case he tries for a few weeks. He might have damaged his eye or optic nerve on that side because he bumped his head too hard anyhow.

Pidgey


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

pigeonkid1046 said:


> Question though....how will I go about feeding him if he is completely blind? I don't know if I will be able to hand feed him a few times a day. I have a job and still attend school.... ~Tim


Get the bird set up in a cage with non-spillable containers for the food and water. Keep the food and water topped up all the time and the containers in the very same place all the time. If the bird is blind or has sight problems, with a little help from you in assisting it to find the food and water, it will eventually become quite self sufficient. I would definitely do a hand feeding or two each day along with the regular food until it gets the hang of finding things.

I have several blind pigeons that do just fine on their own. It took them a little bit to figure things out, but they did.

Terry


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

pigeonkid1046 said:


> ..I have him on a bunch of vitamins to try to beef him up, he is extremely skinny. Question though....how will I go about feeding him if he is completely blind? I don't know if I will be able to hand feed him a few times a day. I have a job and still attend school.... If anyone wants to call me...you can private message me and I will give you my cell phone number. Thanks.
> ~Tim


Tim,

You need to give the youngster some organic nutrition, instead of a man-made vitamins-if that is what you are using. I would give a tiny bit of Brewers yeast for B complex vitamins and a small piece of alfalfa for calcium and other minerals, these things will help support nerves and help healing. A good probiotic would also be important for nutritional support in a youngster.

If you are going to beef him up with a "bunch of vitamins" PLEASE use strict dosing per instructions.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Tim,

Pidgey has recommended Baytril and Trees has recommended Brewers Yeast. I just want to make certain that you know that these two products should never be given at the same time, because that is a recipe for aspergillosis which is a killer.

Cynthia


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## pigeonkid1046 (Nov 16, 2005)

Hello everyone. I just dropped in to inform you that he passed on. He was gasping for breath and was in obvious dispair. He was suffering, sitting in a corner and euthanasia was the only option at that point. He was on baytril at the time that he passed but was not getting any better. Thanks for all of your help. At least now he is in no pain and suffering. He seemed to be getting better, but then took a turn for the worse. When he was getting better, it was obvious that he was not blind, he could fly ok, and could see what was going on and could react. I sent his body to a place to get it checked out and as soon as I know what he died from, I will let you know. 

Thanks again. 
~Tim


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I am sorry to read the sad news.
Please do let us know what was wrong with him.

Reti


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I am so sorry, Tim, he was a little darling.

It is kind of you to think of letting us know when you find out what was wrong with him, somewhere down the line that might save another little pigeon's life.

Cynthia


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Tim, I am really sorry. I had hoped he would recover. Thank you so much for taking such good care of him.


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## pigeonkid1046 (Nov 16, 2005)

Hey guys.
I had just found out from the vet's office that he tested positive for PMV. The doc was worried it was a pop up of the avain flu....thank goodness it wasn't. He said there was major nervous damage and euthanaisa was deffinately the best option at the right time. He said that he had little or no chance of recovering and that he was just going to suffer and possibly infect the rest of the flock. I have just vaccinated them all today to prevent it and they are on some pretty good vitamans too help keep their immune system in top shape if something would happen to show up in the future. 

Brewers yeast...what exactly does that do? 

Thanks...
~Tim


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Darn, Tim...I am so sorry!

Sending condolences with LOVE and HUGS at this sad time...

Shi


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