# Emergency! Cat brought in baby dove (South Africa)



## mel.deist (Sep 20, 2014)

Hi. 
I'm from South Africa.
My friend's cat caught a baby dove this afternoon (about 12 hours ago) and brought it into her house. She has no time to look after baby birds and I told her that I would take it in.

She brought it to me a about 5 hours ago in a box.

I think it's a Cape Turtle Dove (Ring-necked Dove) and probably a fledgling.
It is still quite small compared to a full-grown adult dove (about 81g), but already has most of its feathers - some minor fluff on its chest and fluff under its wings. Its darker "collar" is starting to form around the neck.

Originally she told me that the bird was uninjured, but unfortunately that's not the case. 
It has a cut (5-8mm) under its wing, basically in the fold of its thigh. I dont think it bled much (so I guess it's not too deep), but the cut seems like it hurts. The patch around the wound is fluff-less and is red - not pink. 

Unfortunately all the vets in my area (Ermelo) are closed on the weekend. Since I read about the dangers of cat bites (can they really kill a baby bird within 24 hours?) I decided to self medicate him to try and get him through the weekend alive.

We do not have any pets so no animal-friendly meds I'm afraid. We did, however, have AMOCLAN 1000mg (Amoxicillin and clavulanate potassium) tablets. I dissolved one tablet in 250ml water and then mixed 2.5ml with some porridge and fed it to the bird. Is this OK for now? Is the dosage right? Should I give it twice or three times a day? How long can the solution stay in the fridge before I should make a new batch?

I haven't treated the wound yet since I'm not sure how to. I have Detol Antiseptic Liquid (Cloroxylenol 4.8g/100ml) and Surgical Spirits and Saltwater as options for cleaning the wound. What would work best? And then I have Bactroban and Colloidal Silver Gel to put on it if needed. How do I clean the wound though? The dove really puts up a fight when I try to lift up his wing.

As for his health, he seems strong. His body is warm, not cold. The first time it saw me it raised its wing - I think to make it seem bigger? But it only did that the first time it saw me. I put it in a dark, warm room to calm it down. I tried to inspect the wound after about an hour, but the dove doesn't like it at all and keeps trying to get away when I do. If I just hold him he seems calm. It can walk around and at one point it started grooming itself and stretching its wings. It can jump-fly (jump from a chair to the ground while flapping) without crash landing to the floor. 

He hates being fed...struggles quite a bit. I've only gotten about 7ml of porridge in so far. Even forcing his beak into water so he would start drinking is a struggle. He only drank once so far. He has pooped 3 times so far. First time was quite runny but the other two were not. They werent dry, just poopy? They are dark brown with white in it. 

So what should I do? I'm going to try and get some peas in after this post. 
Any advise will be appreciated.


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## mel.deist (Sep 20, 2014)

Update:
I loosely wrapped him in a towel and fed him. He ate 8 peas and drank a gulp of water. He didn't want to open his mouth for me during feeding. I had to force it open. Once I got food into his mouth he swallowed easily - no need to force it down his throat. I did not force the water in...just let his beak touch the water and he drank some. Not much though. How much water should he drink? How much should he eat? 

After feeding he seemed restless so I let him walk around a bit. He pooped (still brown with white in - a bit runny but not "watery").

I tried to look at the wound again. It's hard to see the true damage since it's dark, so I'll reassess tomorrow morning (in 7 hours). It's a definite cut - don't know why there weren't any blood. He walks though without closing his eyes and he tried to fly up onto the counter, but couldn't make it. He also keeps grooming his feathers (at one point I think he actually swallowed a down...is that bad?) Surely movement like that means it's not too bad? Or is that just wishful thinking? He doesn't run away from me which is probably not a good sign... I'm really worried about that wound.

I wrapped him in some towels (his head still open so he doesn't suffocate) and put him in an open box in our darkest room to sleep. I don't have heating pads/warm water bottles/heaters. If a light is on in the room he crawls out of his towel-nest and starts walking around on the cold tiles, so a lamp wont do. The weather is quite cool (we wear jerseys), so will the towels be enough?


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Amoxycillin is best for treating catbites. You can get betamox tablets from your pharmacy (contains 100mg amoxy). I think you get 250 mg tablets as well, just make sure of the dosage. My cats did the same to a little fledgling laughing dove. He weighed 75 g and I gave him 9mg amoxy twice a day, mornings and night. I dissolved one tablet into 10 ml of water, so 10 ml is equal to 100 mg. Give him 10 mg twice a day. You can keep this in the fridge, just give it a good mix every time you use it. Keep up this treatment for 10 days.

Try to get a reptile heat pad from a petshop, it's not very expensive. Just put some fabric on top of it, it can get quite warm.

Regarding the grooming, it's a good sign, he's feeling ok. You can rinse the cut with salty warm water.

If he's eating peas, he won't drink a lot of water. Leave some peas and seeds with him, he will start pecking and eating on his own soon.

Plse let us know how his doing.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

If you can't get a heating pad, an ordinary light bulb will help. Put him in a big box with the light bulb hanging down into it, just give him enough space to move away from the heat if he gets too hot.


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## mel.deist (Sep 20, 2014)

Update:

The dove is still alive. 

Was a bit nervous when I woke up and he was still in his towel-nest, just sitting there but I guess he was still sleeping (it's a pretty dark room with black curtains). But when I got him out he was quite lively again (and he's starting to run away from me). 

He pooped somewhere this morning (his poop was still soft when I opened him up) and then again when I let him out to feed him (before the feeding started). Both times they were poopy (thus not watery -what is the right word for that?) and dark brown with white in them.He got some poo on his bum though. I'm hoping that he simply backed into the soft poo when I tied to pick him up and that it's not something serious like a sign of constipation or something.

I gave him another 2.5ml of the Amocal solution (btw Amocal is a Amoxicillin/clavulanate tablet) mixed with some Weet-bix. I warmed it up a bit so hopefully the heat doesn't kill the Amoxicillin. I also gave him 15 peas. I didn't want to over feed him so I stopped at 15. When I brought the water closer he immediately took a big gulp (no need to even dip his beak first), but again, only one gulp and he was done.

As for heat, he still felt warm this morning. Just in case I did the rice in a sock thing for 30min before I fed him. After feeding I re-heated the sock en let him snuggle up in his towel nest.

I took a look at the wound (he was less reluctant this morning yay!). It looks like a scratch and then a scab - like some skin was taken off when he was scratched. It's red (not blood red, but red nonetheless). I still don't know how to clean the wound. Do I let the water just run over it? Do I use a syringe? Can I put Colloidal Silver on it afterwards (keeping in mind that he grooms himself and might get some in his mouth)?


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Seems like he's doing well. Brown poop with white is good. If he get's constipated (mine did) best is to clean the bum with warm water and cotton. Spinach is good for constipation. If he does not want to eat the leaves, make a tea with the leaves for him to drink.

I also had trouble cleaning the wound that mine had. Use the syringe and just let the saltwater run over the wound. 

Seems like he's in good hands. It's getting warmer now, I will put him outside in a little cage - they love a bit of sunshine.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

The dosage in your first post seems right: 2.5ml is then 10mg. Give twice a day for ten days.

Don't know about the colloidal silver. I've used Betadine ointment.


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## mel.deist (Sep 20, 2014)

So baby dove still seems lively, but I'm very worried about his wound. He allows me to look at it now. Lifting the wing doesn't seem that painful anymore. I've cleaned it with salt water (and by clean I mean let it run over the wound). The cut itself doesn't seem to bad but the red skin has some light yellowish parts in. So I'm assuming its infected.  Should've tried to clean it earlier, but I just didn't know how to get him to cooperate without injuring him further.  How bad is a wound infection like that?

I'm going to take him to a vet tomorrow to take a look at it (and get me the right pills). Unfortunately we only have normal vets in Ermelo - no specialists. So what do I do? There are quite a few farmers around here with chickens so they might know enough to help, but where do I draw the line? Do I just accept everything the vets says?

As for his health, he pooped at least 15 times today and almost all of them were firm and healthy looking. The last one was a bit runny though (and they are starting to get a dark greenish tint instead of plain dark brown ... apparently another sign of infection?) He is starting to open his beak for me during feeding and flapping his wings a bit. No peeping sounds though. HE likes wandering around and I think he's starting to fly ... I keep him in a room with no furniture (because poop). Some boxes and two bicycles are stored in the room. On several occasions he escaped from his towel nest and flew onto one of the bikes and at one time even sat on the curtain railing. He started pecking at white spots on the tiles, but he had no interest in the seeds I left him. 

I really don't want him to die.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

The poop will be green if you're feeding him peas, that's normal. If he's still alive and well today, I guess he will survive.

Before you go to the vet, first make sure he does treat birds. He might suggest to euthanize the bird (why bother, there's so many of them around - that's the way most people think). Plse don't accept this.

If you click on my name, you will be able to view the thread I started on the laughing dove caught by my cat. There's a photo that shows how terrible the bird's wing looked, also had a lot of yellow infection. The only thing I did was rinse with saltwater and then put some Betadine on. I never thought the wing would heal. If you scroll down to my last post, you will see a photo of how he looked couple of weeks later - wing healed completely.


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## mel.deist (Sep 20, 2014)

Thank you so much for all your support Marina. I really appreciate it.

I called Ermelo's Pigeon Club this morning to find out where they treat their pigeons. Sadly there are no avian vets close by. When I asked where I should take the dove, they just said I should try the local vet. Waste of time! He took a look and said it didn't look too bad and put an ointment on the wound. When I asked him about the meds I'm giving him, he said I should stop giving him antibiotics because it destroys good bacteria! When I asked about the dangers of cat bites he shrugged and said I could then continue with the treatment for 3 more days (thus stopping on day 5). I'm going to continue with the meds for 8 more days though. I was hoping to get meds specifically for birds, but no such luck. Hopefully what I'm giving him is working.

Anyway, update:

He pooped well last night/this morning. Brown again with white in and not runny. This morning at the vet he was very sleepy and lifeless, but I didn't feed him (incase the doc gave me meds that requires no food) so I'm guessing he was just hungry. After he ate, he started walking around again. During feeding he gave me two peeps. Other than that he is quiet, except for a click or two now and then.

He likes testing his wings now. He tries to get onto the curtain rail. Fails often, but succeeds now and then. I provided him with a soft landing for when he fails and curtains are closed to ensure that he doesn't injure himself against the window. He started pecking at some seeds as well. Should I start giving him less food now?

I still dont think I'm home free though. When he is calm and just sitting around or trying to sleep, he constantly shakes his head. I read that this could be a neurological symptom of infection. He's also not drinking water. I give him drops often, but in the last 24hours or so he didn't want to take his own gulps like he did on that first day. He also finds wound treatment traumatizing. He puffs himself up afterwards and shivers on and off for about 5 to 10min. Lifting the wing to see the wound is easy enough now though. 

Should I tweeze out the feathers that touches the wound? And are you sure the Amoxicillin is enough to treat the wound infection as well? I see you used quite a few meds on Kunju. And what probotics do I use? Where can I get it? I've started adding ACV to his med mix and in his water (but he doesnt want to drink water). Is one drop twice a day enough? Or should I coat the peas/corn with it as well? I'm going to buy some apple sauce as well, just to make sure he doesn't become too constipated. Some people also mention a need for calcium. Where do I get that?

Sorry for all the questions, but this little guy has crawled into my heart and it would be terrible to lose him now. I want to give him the best treatment possible.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Antibiotics do destroy the good bacteria as well, but after treatment these can be restored. Leave the ACV for now, if the water tastes bad, he might not want to drink it.

Maybe he's cold and that's why he's shivering after you've cleaned the wound. Get a good garden bird seed mixture (there's small red seeds that they always start eating first) soak this in a bit of water and leave in a small bowl. It's easier for them to pick up the wet seeds.

I've only used the amoxycillin on Kunju. And after treatment gave him some Nystatin to prevent yeast infection. This you can also get from a pharmacy.

Probiotics and vitamins you can get from Diamond Pigeon Stud. They are in Kimberley (053 831 2619). They will speedpost to you. Otherwise get some from you're local pigeon club, you only need a little bit.

I know how you feel about the bird. I felt the same about Kunju, expecting to find him dead every morning. But they are quite tough and really amazing.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

How is you're bird doing?


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## mel.deist (Sep 20, 2014)

Well, this is Dave the Dove, taken this morning.









Sadly, things are not going well.

Yesterday went great. He was eating well, exploring the house (with my supervision of course), started peeping, practicing flying. His poop was a little weird - runny white with some firm brown. But it cleared up by last night.
I also met with the Pidgeon club's representative and they gave me some probiotics for free (haven't started to administer it yet though. I tried to get Betadine for his wound but none of our pharmacies have stock (apparently a problem with the manufacturer).

Today started off well. As I warmed Dave's food he strolled around. He ate well and snuggled with me for a while after feeding. So I let him look out the window and get some sun when suddenly he sees an adult dove and starts freaking out. He starts peeping like crazy and flapping his wings (like babies do when they want food) and tried to follow them. It broke my heart. After that it was like he was sulking. He just sat there the whole day staring out the window. When I tried too take him away from the window he just flies to the next window. So I flushed his wound (he lets me do that now without any problems), washed his feet and gave him water (he took about 3 gulps) and let him sit outside for a while, bathing in the sun. That seemed to cheer him up since he started exploring the house again after our outing and pecking at the ground (he did peck at the ground outside as well and might've pecked up some sand - I'm not sure). He again took a gulp of water after our outing.

During his foot bath (in salt water) I noticed his foot. It's like his toe (on the non-wounded side) was broken. 
















I touched it and tried to get it back to the right position and he didn't flinch so I doubt it's painful, but he's not able to use it. His other three toes works fine and it doesn't seem to bother him while walking. I have no idea when this happened. Any advise on what I should do with it?

As for the wound...it does not look good.









At 16:00 I decided to take him to the Pigeon people (they kept saying that I don't have to worry about wounds, they always heal without problems, but if I think it looks bad they will take a look and help). So I took him to them, they took a look and they said the wound is fine. To calm me, I guess, they put on some Healing Oil, and we all laughed at my paranoia. He was eager to eat by then (immediately opened his mouth when he thought he was going to be fed) and even tried to fly out of his box. He did not like us touching the wound though. So I went home, and on my way something changed drastically.

When I got home I put him on the floor so he can stroll around as I warm his food. And he was running for the corner, which I did not find too weird. But when I started feeding him, something seemed off. He was very unbalanced. Then he started making weird movements and threw up what I just gave him (which wasn't much...two bites of a mix containing a few tiny seeds, porridge and his meds). So I thought maybe he is just in shock from treating the wound (the oil they used had a very strong smell to it so it might burn I guess). But when I put him down he lost all balance. He was stumbling around, barely able to keep himself upright. It's like his wounded side was paralyzed. He then stopped responding. When I touched his beak, like when I try to feed him, he just sat there - weak (usually he pulls away while flapping or open his mouth). I was freaking out and called the Pigeon people and they had no idea what this was happening.

So I just put him in his box with his rice-sock heated up a bit in a dark room. After an hour or so I fed him his meds (just the meds, not the seed mix) and 6 peas - he seemed a bit better, opened his mouth a bit at least, so I thought lets do it.

I let him out again about two hours ago and his balance is back - he can sit on my finger and has a strong grip. 

I don't know what to make of this all.
I really hope he survives.

Thanks for the interest.


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## mel.deist (Sep 20, 2014)

Oh his poops are fine though. Firm, brown and white, and quite often (I clean it as soon as I see it).

He is still shaking his head for no apparent reason.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Seems to me like he is doing fine. I won't worry about the toe that much, as long as he can walk, that's fine. Are you still giving him the amoxy? You can also put Bactroban on his wounds.

Why don't you infest in a budgie cage, then you can leave him outside in the sun for longer. It will only do him good.

The probiotics can only be given after the antibiotic treatment. Then you must also give the Nystatin to prevent yeast infection.

Well, he's a real beauty and has survived so far, seems as if this will turn out well. Plse keep us updated.


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## mel.deist (Sep 20, 2014)

I don't know, he just doesn't seem like himself after his episode yesterday. Any idea what could've caused it? His balance seems fine, but still, something's not right.

This morning when I woke him up, he was shivering a bit. And it's not colder than other mornings.

He still poops a lot. Since last night he pooped 7 times. Firm with brown and white spots. Luckily he has started to perch instead of snuggling up in his towel nest. So I can put in some tissues for easy cleaning the next morning and he doesn't sit in his own waste.

This morning he was eager to eat the first 5 peas. After that, not so much. He made choking movements about 3 times and the last time (which was also after the last pea (pea #10), he regurgitated 2 pea halves (I cut the peas in 2). Not normal. I stopped feeding him then.

It feels like his crop is emptying. I'm not an expert in feeling the crop though. Yesterday the pigeon people also said his crop was empty so I'm guessing I'm doing it right.

I'm still giving him antibiotics. I've decided to start giving him the mixture through a syringe instead of mixing it with food (very little at a time to ensure that I dont drown him). 

Do you know how much apple sauce I can give him a day? 1ml? 2ml?

Anyway, I'll go shop for a cage today. Hopefully I can find one somewhere.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Try to get a heating pad at a pet shop, they don't cost much, about R100. At least then you'll know he's warm at night.

Why don't you rather dissolve the antibiotics into less water, ex 10 ml. If you do the calculations, then you'll only need to give him a tiny amount of this mixture. 2 ml of applesauce I suppose will be fine. He's old enough to be eating seeds, I would spend some time encouraging him to start eating on his own. This would make life just so much easier for you both.

If you get a cage, put in a piece of braaiwood for him to perch on. He will be more comfortable then.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

If he is pooping, the crop must be emptying.


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## mel.deist (Sep 20, 2014)

Well, he almost escaped today. I got him a budgy cage and he hates it. He was having fun for a while, sun bathing. I let him drink water (but he still doesn't go to the water himself). He pecks at the ground and it looked like he ate a few small seeds. Mostly he pecks at sand though. Then he started getting restless. He started pacing and pushing his beak through the cage bars and I thought, lets get him inside.

Then things went crazy. I took him in to be fed and while on my lap he flew to the garage and out the garage door onto the roof. He then, after less than a minute, flew to the neighbor's tree. I called my husband and waited for him before I took on project "Catch Dave". He got here in 20min (he's working today), me keeping an eye on Dave. During that 20min Dave was as happy as a bird can be - sun bathing, strolling around, following other doves (hoping its his parents who can feed him I guess). And catching him - what a mission! Dave kept flying from tree to tree. We had to go into the yards of three neighbors as we followed him. We finally caught him (we had to spray him with water while he was in the tree to avoid him flying away - his flight is amazing!) I let him dry off in the sun in his cage. What I don't get is after he was dry, back inside the house, his balance was off again. He never crash landed during his escape. But now, he struggles to walk. He cant perch on my finger without falling over. Meanwhile, 20min earlier he was sitting in trees. Why? I dont understand. *sigh* 

Anyway, despite his imbalance, he was extremely hungry. I put him on the floor to see if it's his foot that is the problem, and he kept walking (crashing?) to my hand and started pecking at it and doing those "Feeding motions" (moving his head fast - not flapping his wings though - he needs them for balance). So I fed him, gave him some water, and then he started snoozing, so I put him in his cage and in a dark room to rest.

He hates being captured. He really hates it. He hates indoors. He hates his cage. I don't know what to do. I'm afraid he'll injure himself even more.

And what is up with his balance? Could it be the foot that is worsening? The broken toe foot seems like the culprit today for his imbalance. I dont know (and I doubt the vets in this town will know).


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## mel.deist (Sep 20, 2014)

I'm thinking that it might be a Calcium deficiency? How much calcium do doves need? 

He can use both his legs but not very well. Its like he takes a few steps then stumbles. Could it be the toe?

Well, sunlight definitely seems to help. His balance seems much better now. Still not great (like I said, he stumbles a lot)..

Oh and a problem - his poop is runny and light. And not very frequent anymore (he only pooped twice after his escape). Not a good sign.

And he wants to be free. When there are no birds around he just chills out but as soon as he sees another bird - any bird it seems - he tries to join them, pacing and pushing his chest against the cage.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Wow, you've had quite a day. And mr Dave has shown that he can really fly! I'm just glad you got hold of him, he will die out there on his own.

Well, he is a wild bird and being caged in must be terrible. Just give him 2 hours of sunlight every day in the cage, and let him spend the rest of the day in a spare room where he can practice flying. He will eventually realise he can't get out of the cage and the sunlight will do him so much good.

Mine also had the loss of balance, even seizures, and then the terrible head twisting that resembled PMV. The balance was so bad, I had to keep him propped up amongst pieces of fabric otherwise he would just fall over. But eventually he made a full recovery. So, just be patient with this one.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

I've never given calcium to a bird, maybe the pigeon club can help you with that. I do give cuttlefish bone to my birds, good source of calcium. Maybe a petshop in your town sell some. 

Snaaks dat niemand anders nog gereageer het op jou probleem nie.


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## mel.deist (Sep 20, 2014)

Well, Dave confuses me. His balance seems a-OK again. I think it's his will to escape - as soon as he's outside he livens up and starts planning his escape (the latest being try to squish your head trough the cage railings (silly bird, your head's too big! Stop doing that!) 

I just don't get it. Is there some illness that causes sporadic balance troubles? I hope it's not the toe. 

En ja, is nogals vreemd dat niemand anders reageer op my vrae nie. Dink seker jy gee goeie antwoorde en ek het nie meer nodig nie.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

I think a broken toe would rather make him walk with a limp and not interfere with his balance. Is he unbalanced only when walking, or when sitting still as well?


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## mel.deist (Sep 20, 2014)

Well, the balance thing is mostly when he is walking, but perching is also affected. Sitting still is fine (except that first time when I thought he was dying - but that might be because he was panicking and was very distressed). 

It seems linked with stress.

Someone suggested B Complex in case it's nerve damage.
Calcium also seems like an option.

I'll go look for those supplements later today.


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## mel.deist (Sep 20, 2014)

Well, the balance thing is mostly when he is walking, but perching is also affected. Sitting still is fine (except that first time when I thought he was dying - but that might be because he was panicking and was very distressed). 

It seems linked with stress.

Someone suggested B Complex in case it's nerve damage.
Calcium also seems like an option.

I'll go look for those supplements later today. 

I'm also looking for rehabs close by for the freeing process. Can't free Dave here - way too many cats. And a soft release is probably best.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

There's a nice rehab centre close to Johannesburg (they have a website) where they've treated quite a lot of birds. Maybe you can find one closer to you. If I were you, keep him until he is well again and can eat perfectly on his own.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

FreeMe Rehabilitation Centre, that's the name.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Check out www.wingsinneed.org.za. They are in Pretoria.


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## mel.deist (Sep 20, 2014)

He started eating on his own today. He was outside today for a few hours. I scattered some seeds around him and two doves came to eat as he was sunbathing. Maybe he learned from them? As soon as he started to freak out and try to escape from the cage, I brought him in and let him walk around our living room as I sit on the couch. He often flies up to me and starts pecking my hand. I feed him @ 8:00, 12:00, 16:00 and a little snack at 20:00 (apple sauce). Today I moved 2nd and 3rd feeding up by an hour to motivate eating by himself. He's not pro at it, but definitely swallowed at least 10 seeds that I saw.

I also contacted Wings in Need. Apparently what I'm feeding Dave is not sufficient.  He wants me to get Dave to him as soon as possible so he can take over the rehabilitation. I must admit that Dave's tail feathers do look a little ruffled (and apparently malnutrition can cause poor feather growth). He is also concerned with giving him too much meds (I should apparently stop antibiotics on day 5 and Nystatin is not needed if I don't see symptoms [maybe I should use ACV instead?]). I won't be able to get to Pretoria this weekend though, so next week I'd probably take him there. 

I'd like to get that foot checked out by an avian vet before that though - he seems to stumble over it if he gets too excited and start running. Just a little stumble, not a fall, but still enough to worry me. We are going to Nelspruit tomorrow and they do have an avian vet clinic. Apparently treatment for wild birds are free. They were, however, very forward about possibly putting him to sleep. Can you insist that they just treat him and then take him back? It sounded like they wanted to rehabilitate him if they treat him for free. Anyway, Tom said the toe either needs a split or be amputated - the vet has to decide once they see the bird.

They also said that white poop could be a kidney problem and that poop should be "shiny". I dont know if his poop is shiny. It's firm and quite easy to clean - basically sticking to toilet paper as soon as it's touched. It's soft, so not dried out, but could it be too firm? Today some of the poop were a bit white...

I really want to give Dave the best option possible. The bird rehab sounds like they know what they are doing (way more than I know). However, I do not want him to get killed for some silly reason that could've been treated.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

If the vet in Nelspruit spoke about the possibility of putting him to sleep, I won't even bother taking him there. It would be a shame after all he's been thru. Even with a broken toe, he will be able to adapt in nature.

Wings in Need sounds like a good place to take him to. Perfect poo is round and firm with a blob of white on top. The white (I think) is the urine that he produces. Can you post a photo of the poo?

Please don't let them put him to sleep and don't leave him there either.


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## mel.deist (Sep 20, 2014)

Dave is doing well. 

The vet at Nelspruit took a look and is happy with his health. They took a look at his toe and said that they would prefer treating the toe once his wounds are fully healed to minimize trauma. They also said that I should continue the antibiotics - apparently with a wound like his, a 10-day antibiotics course is needed. They also gave me probiotics free. They said that the balance thing might've been an allergic reaction to the healing oil. Let's hope they're right about that. He hasn't had any more balance episodes since Wednesday, so yeah. In addition, they said I should avoid ointments on the wound since you want the wound to heal from the inside - not outside. They told me that B-complex supplements are only needed for racing pigeons.

He is eating on his own now, but I don't think he's eating enough so I still feed him in the mornings and at night. He does not drink a lot of water though. His poops look healthy again (not too white). The wound is starting to dry out. He has a room to himself where he can wander freely. I have some seeds on the floor there and a bowl with seeds in for when he's hungry. How does grit work though? The vets recommended egg shells or oyster shells - is that enough? Do you mix it with the seeds? Or put out a different bowl? 

Anyway, we'll see how Dave is doing by Thursday and decide whether we are going to take him to Pretoria next weekend or not.


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## mel.deist (Sep 20, 2014)

And I'm nervous again.

When relaxing, Dave looks like he is breathing heavily. His mouth is NOT open while breathing, it just seems like he is taking deep breaths based on the rise and fall of his back. When trying to listen, I dont hear any weezing sounds.

He has some crustiness on the corners of his mouth.

He is still alert and gets up now and then to peck up some seeds (he won't eat too much will he?) or stretch his wings (which he's done at least 3x this hour). Mostly, however, he just sits puffed up on the floor of the cage - not perched on his piece of braai wood. At times he kinda lowers his wings so you can see his back - like he's sunbathing, without the sun being there. He is still pooping and his poops look fine - dark brown with white on and firm enough to pick up without leaving a stain. 

It's a bit cold today - could that affect him?


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## mel.deist (Sep 20, 2014)

So the crusty beak









His poop


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Sorry, was away for couple of days. Did wonder how Dave was doing. Poop is looking fine. As long as he's eating, all is good. The crust might be leftover food that you've been feeding him, otherwise something else. How long must he still be on the antibiotics?


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## mel.deist (Sep 20, 2014)

Wednesday morning is the last dose of antibiotics.

I'm worried about the breathing. His back is rising and falling quite prominently, wings moving with it. His wings are slightly lowered, exposing his back.









He is still eating.









Regarding the crust, I cant think of any food that would dry like that. It kinda looks like a scab (rofie?).


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Most pet shops will have grit. You can provide this in a seperate bowl. He might not eat any, but that's no need for concern. The scab might be pox that they get from infected mosquito bites. That usually clears up within 6 weeks time, so you'll have to keep him for that long. Lets first wait and see.


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## mel.deist (Sep 20, 2014)

Well, I bought some grit for Dave and a heating pad for the cold. 

I'm not sure about the wounds on the beak. It does not look like warts (and I haven't seen any mosquitoes - I don't think it's hot enough yet). It's a yellow crustiness in the corners of his mouth. I cleaned the scab shown on the previous close-up of his beak and there seems to be a very small wound on the lower part of the beak. There are no growths inside his beak or down his throat and his poops look fine (and he eats often). 


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<-------- Notice yellow crust in corners of mouth

Could it be a lack of calcium and his escape antics that formed small wounds that now became a bit crusty? It seems like the exact spot where the wires of the cage touch his beak when he tries to escape (and try to push his head through the spaces).


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Might be the start of scaly face mite which can also kill the bird if not treated. Why don't you e-mail the photo to "Wings in Need". I'm sure they will be able to give advice on this.

I've never dealt with something like this, so can't help you with this one. So once you've finished the antibiotics, start giving the probiotics and also a drop of ACV in the water to put back the good bacteria.


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## mel.deist (Sep 20, 2014)

Well, Dave is now with the people of Wings in Need. I took him there today (230km drive! And I cried the whole drive back to Ermelo). But it's for the best. They know what symptoms to look out for and how to treat it. I knew something was wrong with Dave, but couldn't find out what.

Apparently the wound has caused an abscess, which is causing Dave some pain. My husband and I thought that it was just a scab forming (thus signifying healing), but apparently the wound is still far from healed. That's why he is no longer walking around. It's amazing how doves hide their pain! He didn't even lmp while walking to the food bowl and back. Anyway, he now has to go on stronger antibiotics to get that wound healed(and some pain meds).

The people working at WiN assured me that Dave will not be put to sleep. They were very helpful and agreed to keep me updated. I've gotten my first SMS from them this evening at 19:00 - Dave is eating on his own (crop full of seeds) and is looking alert and well. They also told me that they have great success with avian pox and that they will be on the lookout for any warning signs. However, they did not mention anything about scaly face mite. No comment on his broken toe either. I'm assuming that they are not worried about it. At least not for now.

Tomorrow I'll try to find out what meds he's on and how long they suspect the healing process will take. My thoughts are with him. xxx


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

You made the right decision in taking him there. It's amazing how quickly one gets attached to them, I also would have cried. But his in good hands and they will know best.

It will be interesting to find out exactly what treatment he will receive, the meds and doses ect. Plse let me know if you can find out, might be useful in the future.

Thanks for all the effort and money you've spend in helping this bird.


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