# A wing lump



## mickey (Feb 10, 2010)

Mothers pet pigeon has developed a lump near the joint where the humerus and radius join. The lump is about the size of a marble seen as a visible bump on the outside of the wing when he sits. The lump is hard. I see no skin damage. The bird acted like he is in pain, going off to hide, so I gave him some aspirin and he seems to be feeling better cooing around acting somewhat normal. This is an inside bird in a clean healthy environment. Poop looks good although the bird appears to have lost some weight. This bird is drinking water too. He has not been able to fly (because of the pain I think) but since he has been on aspirin he is stretching the wing out more and more, and he is not hanging the wing down low as much as before. I almost think it is getting better but not sure if it is just the pain meds.
Questions
Could this be an ingrown feather? if so how do you diagnos/treat it?
Could this be an injured joint? if so how do you diagnos/treat it?
Could this be an abscess? if so how do you diagnos/treat it?
any advice will be greatly appreciated


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I wouldn't give birds Aspirin. The dosage for the birds is very small. Most people only give aspirin to birds when they want to kill them. Maybe some other members will be along soon with advice for relieving pain.

It sounds like the bird has paratyphoid. I would suggest getting it on an antibiotic ASAP. Regularly putting neosporin or similar ointment on the lump may help. If it was an infected feather shaft, it'd look yellowy and...infected. Like when we get infected wounds. Same thing with pox and infection due to pigeon flies. Since this is just a lump, not oozing or anything, I am almost positive it is paratyphoid.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I agree with Becky. Do rodents or roaches have access to your loft? 
You and the bird are very lucky the aspirin didn't kill him.


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Just Maybe?
I have taken Dental Floss and tired around the BASE of the lump-VERY TIGHT.
after a few days the lump will fall off.
I was Banned because I said something about killing birds
NOW people are saying they give their pigeons Aspirin.
O-BOY Whats next??????????


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

sky tx said:


> Just Maybe?
> *I have taken Dental Floss and tired around the BASE of the lump-VERY TIGHT.
> after a few days the lump will fall off.*I was Banned because I said something about killing birds
> *NOW people are saying they give their pigeons Aspirin.*O-BOY Whats next??????????



Sky...that works for a tempory tumor caused by pox but it woldn't be advisable for a paratyphoid tumor.

Most people don't realize aspirin are toxic to birds. I think he was just trying to be helpful. Most people don't realize that even Google can be a powerful tool, such as to Google...*Is aspirin toxic to birds?* if one isn't sure or just to be on the safe side.


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## mickey (Feb 10, 2010)

thank you Becky

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
from a post in pigeon talk 
posted by 
Feefo 
Posted 27th March 2011, 08:05 AM
Pigeon Recovery suggest 1/4 aspirin so you can try that.

Your warnings have been noted Becky and Charis
thanks

The lump is not something you can tie a string around SKY TX , The lump is inside the wing both inner and outer , very close to the joint and could be a swelling of the joint 

It does sounds like the bird has paratyphoid after reading information at Foy's. The bird is inside the house and living a very clean life. Quite friendly, saved at day two from inexperienced parents NO Roaches/rodents in the house. The bird is exposed to another bird that may have been exposed these elements. 
I see three symptoms from Foy's Paratyphoid diagnosis
1) there does seem to be some loss of balance
2) the lump could be swelling of that joint, 
3) we have also notice a loss in weight.

This bird is 1 yr old

So I have also been putting a watkins carbolated save on the lump. I think this is helping.
I have been adding apple cider vinegar to his water.

Is there something I can get from a vitamine store or whole food store that may strengthen the immune system, while I waite for antibiotics from foy's,. I may be able to talk a local vet into seeing him but my choice is limited here.

What should I order from Foy's ??
Where else can I get an antibiotic


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Sorry Folks
I only said what I had done in the pass.
Just a Question--How can any of you Pigeon People tell what the "REAL" problem is without handleing the Bird????????????????????????
A Lump?--A Tumor---A BOIL?
If you can tell them "FOR SURE" their what problem is just from their post
Then you are in the Wrong Bussiness.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Some good close up images would help...


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

You may well find references to aspirin, on the forum and on the web, even in wildlife care reference books. However, I believe it's now generally considered inadvisable unless it is an absolute emergency and there is simply no way to get anything else, and even then one would have to be able to give a miniscule dose.

The thread you saw referencing aspirin does virtually immediately explain why it should not be used. The suggestion was to contact Pigeon Recovery to find out more. In fact, I think a few of us in the UK would now, for various reasons, not be anxious to take birds there.


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## mickey (Feb 10, 2010)

Yes John I did read further into that post today, I did not initially.
Fortunately I used a single crushed baby aspirine with a sprinkle on his food, a small dose. This may or may not be the reason he is feeling better? Maybe it is the apple cider vinagar?
I found this article.
"
E. coli and paratyphoid organisms much prefer to live and reproduce in 
slightly alkaline conditions, whereas in a hostile acidic environment, their 
numbers can drop drastically (in some studies, up to 97%)
"
from 

http://www.albertaclassic.net/chalmers1.php


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

sky tx said:


> Sorry Folks
> I only said what I had done in the pass.
> Just a Question--How can any of you Pigeon People tell what the "REAL" problem is without handleing the Bird????????????????????????
> A Lump?--A Tumor---A BOIL?
> ...



Sky...he told us where the lump is located....on a joint. Temporary tumors ls]that can be tied off are not on a joint.... paratyphoid tumors [ boils]are.
You are right though...none of us can know for sure.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Here's a link where you can order an antibiotic. I called and it is in stock.

http://www.pigeonsproducts.com/Pige...op 50 tablets by Belgica de Weerd for pigeons


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Hi Mickey,

Yes, ACV is very good for the pigeon's gut. It won't of itself cure an existing infection, but it will certainly do as you read, thus helping the bird to maintain normal health.

Both E.coli and species of Salmonella can be present within a normally healthy pigeon's system, and even detected by a sufficient depth of testing, but most commonly at a very low level.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Charis said:


> Here's a link where you can order an antibiotic. I called and it is in stock.
> 
> http://www.pigeonsproducts.com/Pige...op 50 tablets by Belgica de Weerd for pigeons


Wonder what's in it?

Can also get 'Spectovet', which is Lincospectin, I got some from Jedds and have been using it for a couple of suspected E.coli/Salmonella infections.

Unfortunate that Baytril isn't readily available.


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## mickey (Feb 10, 2010)

hmm is this it??

http://pigeons.taylorschoice.co.uk/products/167258_parastop_tea_chinese_herbs_100ml.php


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

mickey said:


> hmm is this it??
> 
> http://pigeons.taylorschoice.co.uk/products/167258_parastop_tea_chinese_herbs_100ml.php


It's not the one Charis posted - that would have an antibiotic to be effective against an existing infection.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Lumps like that, if actually very hard, indicate an infection in the actual bone (that's called "osteomyelitis", by the way) and the bone can literally change its shape because of the inflammatory response inside. These don't always respond to Fluoroquinolones (like Ciprofloxacin or Enrofloxacin) and sometimes you have to resort to Clindamycin (oral) or a Penicillin to get results. You're NEVER going to know going in which drug will work better or best--it's generally a crapshoot, and often works best as a rotation therapy where you keep trying different drugs until you get the right results. When the bone has reshaped itself, you won't get an immediate visible change if you do happen upon the right drug and cure the infection--a joint so affected will stay large for months to years although the bird might get a very large portion of the use back.

Pidgey


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## mickey (Feb 10, 2010)

so the vet found a yellow growth in the wing tissue, not in the bone. The yellow growth sort of looked like a corn kernel. flushed the tissue and treating with Ciprofloxacin.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I'm glad you took the bird to the vet and that the bird is being treated. Great job!


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