# Help my pigeon...



## frog pigeon (Oct 18, 2011)

Ok...so he's still hanging on. I've tried to give him some liquid with a syringe, I know, I've read about aspirating the water, but he's going to die without some nourishment anyway, so I figured I'd give it my best shot...can anyone give me any tips on how best to syringe feed him please. I don't think he's going to last much longer though 

Oh and he just "coughed" up some seeds... he didn't really make much noise though doing it. Just two or three seeds. 

And I'm pretty sure for the whole time I've had him...(6hours ish) he's not opened his eyes even when I tried to give him some water. He moves, but that's it. 

Ok, I'm going to go to bed now and hopefully he won't be dead in the morning. Courage my little pidge.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Frog pigeon, please do not try and feed this bird anything right now, as it will have the opposite effect than what you think it will have. You came here for help, and we are trying to help you, so no food until he is properly hydrated, this could take 8-12 hours, even then please do not try and feed him without checking in.

What you can do is give him a very small amount of sugar water for energy, 1 teaspoon of sugar/honey to 60mL of water, and give 4-5mL (80-100 drops). Before doing this you must get 2 rounds of the hydration fluids into him first. Again, if you give sugar water before hydrating him, it will have an opposite effect than what you think, it will drain energy and not give it. Do not give this more than twice a day, spaced by 2-3 rounds of hydration fluids.

Karyn


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi, Please if this pigeon's got any chance do try and follow Karyn's advice as she's very experienced.

As she said, feeding at this moment can prove fatal in itself.

Did you look in his mouth to check if he has any yellowy growths, or is there any bad smell coming from his beak.
He looks very sick and if he choked up some seeds his throat maybe blocked so do try and look gently in his mouth and tell Karyn if you see anything yellow,

Sorry to butt in but I can feel your desperation to help and Karyn can guide you best here,

Janet


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## frog pigeon (Oct 18, 2011)

I haven't tried to feed him. He coughed up seed that I hadn't given him. I know that rehydration is most important, but no ones giving me the information that I need...HOW DO I GET THE LIQUID INTO HIM IF HE WON'T TAKE IT HIMSELF!.. It's really frustrating sitting here waiting for a reply while this poor creature is dying before my eyes! So is it any good Amoxicilline mylan ? How do I give it to him if it is good? Please answer my question, I'm trying to do my best.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

The trouble is you've opened two threads and I think you'll find Karyn did answer everything you asked in your other thread.

I understand how you are feeling but if you just take it gently and go back and read the instructions she gave you you'll be fine.
I think she's covered how to mix the medication and how to drip it along the side of his beak.

I'd just write in this one post now and then you'll find the advice easily.

Janet


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## frog pigeon (Oct 18, 2011)

He doesn't seem to have anything in his mouth. However just a few minutes ago he did regurgitate some more seeds...with some yellowy liquid. He doesn't smell in his beak. And the liquid that I'm trying to give him is the rehydration stuff previously suggested, not just water. Iam listening and following what you say, just tired and sad. (and bad at typing when all of the above)


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Don't worry, I know how tired and worried you must be. I can hardly keep my eyes open as it's so late but I just waited to see if you'd managed to find the info on how to mix the medication.

That's good that his throat doesn't have a massive blockage. The yellow liquid could still mean he might have canker further down but at least if his throat is clear then fluids can get down.

Have you found the advice Karyn posted in your other thread, the one you started to ask for help in before this one?
I just looked and she's put lots of help in as to how to mix it with honey and also how to hold him and drip the fluids along the side of his beak.
You'll find if he's so sick he will be slow to take it but if you hold him on your lap and just drop the fluid along the side of his beak, then usually they do sip it in. It's a slow process but if you can just do this for a while, ( and manage to stay awake!!), then at least he'll have had something to help him through the night if you have to leave him to go to bed.
Keep him warm. Do you have an airing cupboard where there's some hot water pipes running through that stays warm, then you could put his box in there for the night to keep him snug.
Also put the water bottle in with him wrapped in a towel so he doesn't get too hot.

I'm willing you on and hope he hangs on long enough for the treatment to help.

Good luck

Janet


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## frog pigeon (Oct 18, 2011)

amyable said:


> The trouble is you've opened two threads and I think you'll find Karyn did answer everything you asked in your other thread.
> 
> I understand how you are feeling but if you just take it gently and go back and read the instructions she gave you you'll be fine.
> I think she's covered how to mix the medication and how to drip it along the side of his beak.
> ...


No there's no advise on how to give him the medication. Or on how to give him the rehydration fluid if he won't drink it.... I opened another thread because I'm desperate. And I don't really know how forums work, so I thought I'd cut my loses and maybe I'm stupid, but I'm panicking a bit here.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

I think I know why you've missed it. Go back and open the first thread you started but if you can see at the top it goes onto a second page. It's all on the next page.
At the top right hand corner if the page you'll see the page numbers, click on 2 and you'll find what I'm on about. Just go back and see if you can see what I mean.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Thanks Janet for helping out so much, yes, I think he missed a second page was started. Just follow what is there, also, as mentioned before, we need to get a second medication for him called Metronidazole (Flagyl), if he survives the night, please this medication (a few pills will do), I'll give you instructions on how to mix and dose, once I know the strength. Fluid every 2-3 hours.

Karyn


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## frog pigeon (Oct 18, 2011)

amyable said:


> Don't worry, I know how tired and worried you must be. I can hardly keep my eyes open as it's so late but I just waited to see if you'd managed to find the info on how to mix the medication.
> 
> That's good that his throat doesn't have a massive blockage. The yellow liquid could still mean he might have canker further down but at least if his throat is clear then fluids can get down.
> 
> ...


I can't find the info...on my other thread and hotmail doesn't say that she's replied... I'm going to try to give him a bit more of what I've mixed myself. I mixed a little bit of pill (antibiotic) with this hydration solution, and I dripped it into his beak...but that just makes him do the regurgitation thing. So I'll try just running down his beak. Before he regurgitated the seeds he had about 1ml...but I bet that all came out with the grain  I'll keep on trying.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

frog pigeon said:


> I can't find the info...on my other thread and hotmail doesn't say that she's replied... I'm going to try to give him a bit more of what I've mixed myself. I mixed a little bit of pill (antibiotic) with this hydration solution, and I dripped it into his beak...but that just makes him do the regurgitation thing. So I'll try just running down his beak. Before he regurgitated the seeds he had about 1ml...but I bet that all came out with the grain  I'll keep on trying.


Here is a link to my post:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=618840&postcount=16

While not what we want, it's OK that he regurgitates, sometimes they have stuff down there they feel need to come out, the fluids will help him do this, just keep slowly giving the fluids.

Karyn


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## frog pigeon (Oct 18, 2011)

Oh thank you thank you, I just read the post...stupid me! Ok so that will work with a 1g pill...It seems a lot. And also I'm really confused about the dosage. I've got the honey/med mixture done. How much of this do I need to give him? Sorry just one more time, I know you're probably fed up of me by now.


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## frog pigeon (Oct 18, 2011)

Oh thank you thank you, I just read the post...stupid me! Ok so that will work with a 1g pill...It seems a lot. And also I'm really confused about the dosage. I've got the honey/med mixture done. How much of this do I need to give him? Sorry just one more time, I know you're probably fed up of me by now.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

frog pigeon said:


> Oh thank you thank you, I just read the post...stupid me! Ok so that will work with a 1g pill...It seems a lot. And also I'm really confused about the dosage. I've got the honey/med mixture done. How much of this do I need to give him? Sorry just one more time, I know you're probably fed up of me by now.


No problem, we know you are tired and under pressure and want this little gut to make it. You will give 6 drops of this suspension, this medicine may help with some secondary issues, but I think what is wrong with him needs the Metronidazole I mentioned earlier, so do try and get some ASAP in the morning. Just take your time with the fluids, his head tilted down, a drop or two at a time to the side of his beak, let him swallow, repeat.

Good luck,

Karyn


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## frog pigeon (Oct 18, 2011)

I have to go to work tomorrow morning... I have no idea how I can get drugs like that without a prescription...and in france...hmmmm....

I've given him the meds, and now I'm going to try a bit of the hyra stuff... but I'm not even sure it's going in!! Thank you so much. I'll let you know tomorrow after work if he made it or not. Keep everything crossed for him please won't you.

laura xxx


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

frog pigeon said:


> I have to go to work tomorrow morning... I have no idea how I can get drugs like that without a prescription...and in france...hmmmm....
> 
> I've given him the meds, and now I'm going to try a bit of the hyra stuff... but I'm not even sure it's going in!! Thank you so much. I'll let you know tomorrow after work if he made it or not. Keep everything crossed for him please won't you.
> 
> laura xxx


Laura, we sometimes have this same problem getting meds this side of the worlds without prescriptions. Many times tropical fish stores carry Metronidazole, as it is used to treat for a number of diseases fish get, there are a few names for it. One well distributed one is called Metroplex by Seachem, here is a link:

....

If you do try the tropical fish store route, if it's anything else than Metroplex by Seachem, or FishZole by Thomas Labs, you have to be sure what you are buying is 100% Metronidazole, no other additives, read the labeling and make sure of this.

Also, Metronidazole (Flagyl) is used to treat a common women's infection, so it's a medicine that readily available at any pharmacy. You can check with friends and family to see if they by chance they have any, or even a sympathetic doctor or pharmacist, one 500mg pill will do the job (but get two if you can ).

Good luck,

Karyn


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## frog pigeon (Oct 18, 2011)

Dobato said:


> Laura, we sometimes have this same problem getting meds this side of the worlds without prescriptions. Many times tropical fish stores carry Metronidazole, as it is used to treat for a number of diseases fish get, there are a few names for it. One well distributed one is called Metroplex by Seachem, here is a link:
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


He's still alive!!! And I don't want to sound too optimistic, but he looks so much better! His Eyes are open and his head is up and he's even standing. I've taken so more photo's if you're are interested in a look and I'm pretty sure you will be. So I will try to get this medication today and do I make the same mixture like with the other med? Honey and crushed pill? Is it even coming in pill form? right better get going now. I'm sooooo tired, and work is not going to be kind to me! (busy restaurant!!) But It's so worth it for this small result!

Thanks a million, I wouldn't have been able to do it without your advise and kind natures...to all that's helped janet and karyn and (spirit wings, but maybe that's janet) I'm soooo confused hahaha! Love to you all! xxx Laura


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## frog pigeon (Oct 18, 2011)

*He's back with us.*

Look at his little face isn't he beautiful!


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Laura,

This is the first thing I thought about when I woke up this morning. You must be tired as I'm shattered and you went to bed even later by the looks of it!

I'm so pleased he's still with us and perking up a bit.

I hope you have some luck getting the Flagyl as this is going to help a lot.

Will check back later to see how things are. A massive thanks to Karyn.

Good luck

Janet


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Laura, I am so glad he made it through the night and is looking brighter today. We will make the Metronidazole much like the Amoxicillin, but I will need to know just what you were able to find, and strength, before giving you instructions on how to mix and dose it.

Again, just a warning on trying to feed him, not just yet, meds and hydration fluids and a bit of sugar water in between still. You can place a small dish of the hydration fluids right next to him so he can drink if he wishes. Please also post a photo of any fresh droppings he had made (poop).

Don't forget, Amoxicillin every 12 hours.

Good job,

Karyn


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## frog pigeon (Oct 18, 2011)

Hello ladies, 

So he's still doing good...but bad news I haven't had any luck finding the Metronidazole!  I sent my French friend out while I was at work...but he only went to two pet shops, so tomorrow I'm going to go to the pharmacy and see if I have to have a prescription for the Flagyl. If I do maybe I'm going to go to the doctors after with an infection! 

So anyway, phone just ran out of battery, so I can't put the pictures up yet of his poo poo!! hahaha! But it's lovely and wet this time. 

And this morning I didn't say but, with your amazing technique, he actually drank the hydration fluid properly from the syringe (last night, with the technique of running the liquid down the beak, he didn't even drink any he was so poorly) It was so frustrating!! I was up until 4am trying to get him to drink and putting the medication in the same way. His little beak was opening and closing as he was breathing heavily, but no swallowing...

..THEN HALALUUULAH this morning he actually swallowed it! He drank 2ml a little while ago, but refused more. And after his meds and drink I let him have a little walk around my bedroom.

So legs and feet check! Perfectly fine. Wings..hmmm? Because I tried to give him a little once over when feeding him his meds, but he wasn't having it. AS far as I felt though his wings seem fine, not broken, although I could be wrong. When I put him on the floor he tried his wings a little but didn't unfold them all the way, so I couldn't really see. He's moving his head bizarrely also (even more twitchy than normal pigeon head movements.) 

Oh yeah and this morning and when I got back from work earlier, there was even more regurgitated seeds. ??? 

I was trying to think how he got so poorly. I live in the country, but I found him in the city, on a main road, in the road, about a foot away from the traffic. But also there are rows of houses too, so I was thinking he could have flown into a house window. But maybe he's been poisoned and that's why he's regurgitating the grain. Why would a city pigeon eat grain? don't they live off scraps of bread and human waste? I don't know, I'm just hoping he hasn't got some major internal damage.  

This took me so long to write my phone is charged now...coming up next pigeon pooh and pidge takes a walk! 

xxx


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Laura,
I'm glad you're feeling a lot happier now he's drinking ok, that is good news.

Very interesting what you were saying about the feed and yes it is strange really for him to find seeds in town. Mind you I always take some seeds if I go into town and secretly drop some if I see a pigeon walking about looking for food! but generally I do find that I've thrown seeds down to a town feral and they've actually walked past it as they didn't recognise it as food!

It's better I suppose that he's getting rid of those seeds as it would be bad if they fester away in his crop if his system isn't passing them through. Let's hope any left will pass if he's feeling brighter.
That's why Karyn said not to feed yet as when they're so ill, their system slows or stops processing food and it can go rotten in the crop which is bad.

As far as finding the Metronidazole goes you could try the pharmacy as Karyn said and ask for a treatment for a woman's infection if you know what I mean. Maybe that's what you meant when you said about going to the doctors. A chemist will sell things like that over the counter here, you may find it that way too. Good luck as he does need this by the sounds of it.
Also keep an eye on his head movements. Does he just twitch or does his head twist around backwards or anything weird like that?

That can also indicate a specific illness so maybe important to know about.

I don't know how you managed to work today with so little sleep. maybe you can catch up a bit tonight. 

Thanks for a good update.

Janet


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## frog pigeon (Oct 18, 2011)

Go frog pigeon go!!


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hard to tell what colour the poop is but doesn't look too bad considering.
Next time you're on can you just say what colour it is. We're not obsessed with poops but it does help identify things sometimes!!

He looks so much better at least just by having his eyes open. When they sit hunched up with eyes closed I usually fear the worst so you did well last night by getting fluids in him.

Let's hope you have some luck with the meds tomorrow,

Well done

Janet


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## frog pigeon (Oct 18, 2011)

Hahahha You are funny!!

It was white/cream round the edge, then light brown/beige in the middle and then right in the middle middle a darker brown (not black) like a chocolate colour I think...and it was kinda like the texture of an egg white on the surface. And about the size of a 50 pence piece. 

What's a good colour for a pigeon poop then? 

Laura xxx


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Laura, while we are far from out of the woods, he looks remarkably better than last night. You need to work hard tonight in helping him drink as much fluids as you can manage with him. His still regurgitating seeds means we hold off a bit still with food, by getting a good amount of fluids into him it will either help flush out his crop, moving things through and out the back end, or give him some "volume" to help him throw up anything in there that he wants out by regurgitation. An adult pigeon needs 15-40 mL of fluids over a day, plus his dropping looks like we want to see more volume coming out the back end, so more fluids would be good. You can also give a few sips of the sugar water for energy a few hours after the regular fluids.

You can pick him up some wild-bird seed, as we may try him on some tomorrow, but we need to take out any larger food items and give the smaller seeds only to start, so corn, peanuts, sunflower seeds, so on, out.

Also, it has to be a tropical fish store to be able to have a better chance at finding the Metroplex (Metronidazole), the chances of a regular pet store carrying this medicine are slim. Use Google to search "tropical fish stores" in your general area and call them by phone to save time. I know you have a few other ideas as well, that may also work out.

Good luck,

Karyn

PS: I forgot to mention, I want you to add 1 drop of vinegar, to each 10mL of hydration fluids, it will shift the pH of the fluids down and help make his GI a lees friendly place for bacteria and yeast. We usually use ACV (apple cider vinegar) because it has other benefits, but plain vinegar will do to lower pH.


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## frog pigeon (Oct 18, 2011)

Ok latest update on frog pigeon. I think he wants to leave! He's just flown round my bedroom! So his wings aren't broken and he went straight to the window and sat on the window sill...I've put him back in his box now but he's agitated and keeps trying to get out. Should I release him? And if not right now, when I do, do I release him here in the countryside or in the city? (where he's from) My house mates think I should let him go, but I think he needs at least a belly full of food before! And I don't even know if he's drinking alone yet. He keeps putting his feet in the water bowl too!! so I have to change it all the time ! hahaha! And it's getting really difficult to catch him and feed him the meds and hydration. He's really stressed when I hold him that he doesn't really want to drink.  

Oh yeah and I don't have vinegar apart from balsamic ! 

laura x


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Laura, please do not let this bird go. He is feeling better thanks to you, but needs, in my opinion, to go though with full treatment for the suspected canker and bacteria infections. I believe if you let him go, without full treatment, he will decline again and there wouldn't be a kind heart like you around again to rescue him. Please still look for the Metronidazole, do try hard, as I feel it is super important he receives a course of treatment with this medicine. As mentioned before, you came here for help and you have to trust that we will correctly guide you in doing what's best for him.

Glad his condition continues to improve, but he is not ready. If they have a health food store in your area, perhaps you could pick up a small bottle of apple cider vinegar, or maybe a neighbor will let you have a tablespoon of regular vinegar (in the end, we are going to need very small amount), as the balsamic is not suitable.

To help in your search, these are the kind of stores where you may have some luck with the Metronidazole:

http://laquarium.pagesperso-orange.fr/Menu.html

http://www.google.fr/#pq=les+poisso....,cf.osb&fp=584394c4a0535946&biw=1276&bih=752

Karyn


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Laura, So glad Karyn said that as I was about to post and also beg you not to send him off yet.
It is great that he's so much brighter, that means if you can get him over this illness then he's got a great chance of surviving.
If you can think about how ill he was then imagine him out there again in a couple of days in the same state and no-one cares enough to help.

To make him feel less stressed now have you fixed him up in what feels like a secure home ie: a cardboard box, maybe set on it's side with something like a brick for him to sit on and with a bowl of water with his mixture of whatever you're hydrating him with in there for him to drink from if he chooses. When he's able to have seeds you could put those in there as well and he'll feel less like having to move from there.
He needs to feel less exposed and seeing the windows his insitincts are bound to kick in, but he doesn't know how sick he is and how much he needs to improve so he doesn't go down again.

I'd love to see you post one day that he's up to fitness and then you'll be able to release him with no regrets.

You're doing so well, keep at it

Janet


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## frog pigeon (Oct 18, 2011)

Do not worry... I am following what you tell me to the letter...(Still haven't been able to find the Metronidazole though) Had another look in a pet store today, (and yes they had tropical fish there) But no luck  I even asked the girl there, but she gave me two products that didn't contain Metronidazole...

I know it all sounds easy, but I haven't got a car and don't really have much money either, so I have to rely on others, (who don't really care about a dirty city pigeon) to take me to look for the seed and the medicine. They think that he's just going to make us all ill. And I have to think about them too, because I live in a shared house and rely on there help with the car.

I'm stupid really to have picked him up in the first place, but my mothering instinct kicked in the second I saw him lying there! I've always been like that with all animals, but I think here in France they don't really care about them as much. Dunno. 

So I bought some bird seed designed for pigeons and the seeds are crushed a bit so there's no real big bits like I was told to take out.

I'm just looking at him now and he's actually started to preen himself so that's cool. And oh yeah I forgot to tell you both about the strange head movements that I think Janet asked me to elaborate on... so when he walks around my bedroom, he's like looking for places to go, so he's changing the angle of his head, right....but he's also bobbing it up and down and from side to side. I know that probably sounds like normal pigeon head movements, but to me it's even more exaggerated and even when he's not walking. But maybe he's just scoping out the place.

So I'm definitely not going to release him yet, maybe even for a few weeks, but I do have commitments too, so it's going to be difficult. It's a shame I don't have anyone who wants to help me a bit with him  never mind. 

I'm really worried about him getting enough water, he only lets me give him 2ml, the size of the syringe and then after I refill it he starts going crazy, flapping and such. And the medicine he keeps shaking it off his beak not ingesting it.  Damn bird!! I wish he could know that I just want to help him, it's so heart breaking.

It's a real comfort though to have you two to talk to about him and I feel really like I'm learning so much about him and how he works through you two, so thanks again. 

When you said 'a box on its side' did you mean with it open so he can leave if he wants or shut?...Because I tried it open and he just leaves and goes and sits on my washing basket...I don't really mind but I don't either really want poop everywhere in my room. 

Oh and he loves the brick to sit on! 

Errr...that's about all I can think of for now. 

Laura x


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Laura, I did an edit of my last post to help with your search of a store where you could find some Metronidazole, just call them all and ask, if you are not near any of these they could overnight it to you, or try a similar search in your area. Can't hurt to ask at a pharmacy if they will let you have one pill, all they can do is say no, and if you have a local who can help, this may be useful. 

Let your friends know that I can't remember, on the time I've been at this forum, a bird that has made its caregiver ill, so as long as you are doing basic hand washing after handling, don't worry.

If he is flying and walking he should be to a point, if he has a water dish and a seed dish available, he should be able to start to look after his own needs, but monitor him on this. Make sure both dishes are 1-2" deep. Post up some new photos of his droppings.

Karyn


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## frog pigeon (Oct 18, 2011)

Oh yeah pooh today is cream and green going into really dark green in the middle, the size of a 20 pence. 

xx


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi,
Glad he likes his brick! they do prefer to sit on something as opposed to the floor.
It's not crucial how the box is but I thought it might seem more like a hideaway if it was on it's side set against a wall maybe so he feels he can hide. If he's a nuisance keep flying about now then it won't harm him to have him inside the box, with airholes in mind you, and covered so he stays put. If it's large enough you can still put his bowls and brick in and place it all on paper towels so it's easy to clean up.

Shame you haven't been lucky with the fish store meds. Have you tried asking at the chemist at all for treatments that can be bought over the counter for infections. I was reading earlier about travel sickness being treated with Metronidazole, maybe you can look very sick and say you need some desperately!!!! Must have picked up a bug whilst away. 
Just a thought.

Janet


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## frog pigeon (Oct 18, 2011)

No still no luck, I've been stuck at home all day and I don't have any credit on my phone to call places...Karyn: I don't really know what you mean by 'edit of the last post.'

He's really starting to get fed up of being in his box, it's is quite a big one, with enough room for him to walk around and enough room for his brick and his water and food bowls, but yeah he's just pecking on the side and really banging around, generally being frustrated by being trapped. And keeping me awake at night!!

I just want to let him go (but I'm not going to) but I feel really guilty and sad for him. I feel ill myself with the lack of sleep and worry.

And I don't think he's drinking on his own, he's just splashing around in the water bowel so I have to change it every 2 seconds!! hahaha grrrrrr! I'mstarting to loose my mind! 

laura


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

frog pigeon said:


> Karyn: I don't really know what you mean by 'edit of the last post.'
> 
> laura


Laura, I meant I added some additional information. In this case, I added a few links, plus info on how to go about finding tropical fish stores in Paris (I used Paris as an example), but said you could use the same terms for your local area, if you were not near Paris. I believe you will need a tropical fish store to be successful in finding the Metroplex (or another brand of pure Metronidazole), keep trying, see what you can manage.

Please do not feel sad for him, he would certainly not be with us today if you did not intervene. We will try and get him well ASAP, so you can let him go, but letting him go before really most likely will doom him again. Yes, they can be a handful to look after, so just to your best and if you could post up a photo of his fresh droppings, this would be good.

Karyn


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## frog pigeon (Oct 18, 2011)

Ok so latest news on Frog... He's a champion today, at about 5-6ish he drank about 5 syringes of hydra fluid, then for the first time let me beak guide him into a cup of the same hydra fluid and drank about 10ml there, THEN just after I put him on the floor and he drank unguided from his bowl of water!!! 

I'd put some seeds on the floor for him and he's been trying all day to eat them, but with no glory. He can't seem to get them down. Even though they are not so big. I would like to hand feed him some peas (I've seen that on youtube) But once again I'm failing because we don't have a freezer big enough in my house to warrant buying peas, the only thing similar is tinned green beans, but they are slightly larger.

I've changed his living area to up higher on my cupboard, and he is really happier there. And asleep as I type this...

...Oh yes and today he was just on the floor in my room, me sat on my settee and all of a sudden he flew up and sat on my knee!! And he stayed there quite happily for a good 20 minutes/half an hour!!

How can I get him to eat?? And what can I try to get him to eat? I'm starting to think maybe he doesn't even know how!

Oh yeah and sorry no pooh photo's just yet because I cleaned them all up off my floor...but they were green again...well watery white outer then dark like bottle green inner. 

Laura x


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Laura, you're starting to get really 'in tune' with his needs.
What an inspired decision to put his 'house' up high, I should have thought of that as all my birds argue as to who gets the top nest boxes and don't really like being on the ground floor.
I can't believe he's flown onto your lap either, quite a confident thing to do. He must know that you're trying to help him.

I'll let Karyn answer your question about feeding as she'll know what and when the next step should be. I wouldn't feed the tinned beans though.

If he was a youngster you can get them try seeds by putting some seeds scattered around him and messing about with them with your fingers then they start to get inquisitive and peck at them but you said he was already trying so not sure if he's not used to self feeding or whether there's another reason. Keep them available to him anyway, he may get the hang of it.
Also could be he isn't used to seeds being a town bird. I've thrown seeds down for a feral in town before and they've walked past them. Didn't know they were food. Now put some bread or chips down...well that's another matter!!
Stick with the seeds for now though, no bread.

The poops are probably green as he isnt eating properly. They should brown up once he's eating better hopefully.

Love this update, 

Janet


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Laura, sounds like you have made some real progress on the fluid intake . Because of the prior regurgitation, I am reluctant to feed him peas just yet, what I would like to do feed him some formula balls, as these will readily breakdown and pass through, on the chance there is canker in his crop slowing things down. If you can but a box of baby cereal and then measure out 3 tablespoons of the cereal, to this add 1 teaspoon of olive oil, stir in well until all flakes are moistened, then add 1 teaspoon of warm water, stir until it comes together into a "dough" and break off small pieces, about the size of a green pea and feed. as in the clip below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uU1SO0ZJoow

Start with 10 balls, twice a day, and see how he does, we want to make sure they move from his crop and through his GI, you should start to see a change in his droppings once the food makes it through. Once we know things are moving through well, we can increase things some for him. Time the feedings with guiding his beak to fluids right after, so he has fluids added to the food you have just feed to help him digest it. Here are samples of the type cereal I mean:

http://www.twenga.fr/dir-Enfant,Alimentation-bebe,Cereales-pour-bebe-0220565

You must add the oil first, then water, or it will be harder for the balls to fall apart, and don't over work the "dough" as you will activate the gluten, again, making it less easy to fall apart in the crop.

Karyn


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## frog pigeon (Oct 18, 2011)

Oh joy!! Something that I have already got in my kitchen cupboard!! The last time me and my friends went to England we bought some of this cereal because they don't really do it here in France and if they do have in the supermarkets it's really expensive! 

So that's great something I can get started with straight away! (Well, when he wakes up) 

He's absolutely chilled to the max in his new higher up box, I'm so happy, I'm finally getting to know him (Like you send Janet)  and what he wants. And finally he's starting except my kindness and realising I don't want to harm him.

I really couldn't believe it when he came and sat on my knee, I almost cried with joy! Just a thought if either of you have Facebook accounts, then add me because I just uploaded the little videos that I've taken of him...They aren't super quality but they are sweet to watch...Janet you have my full name which is my Facebook account too, you can share that with Karyn if you have accounts too.

If not we'll have to figure another way of showing you both because they are so nice to watch (well I think so)

Right I'm going to go mix up my power balls (or whatever they are called) 

peace out ladies 

Laura xxx


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

He's a right charmer, knows how to butter up his carer.
Loved the videos too!


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## frog pigeon (Oct 18, 2011)

amyable said:


> He's a right charmer, knows how to butter up his carer.
> Loved the videos too!


Sure is!! He's really becoming a good little friend, I so hope he makes it through...So then I can release him into my garden and then he can fly free!


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## frog pigeon (Oct 18, 2011)

Dobato said:


> Laura, sounds like you have made some real progress on the fluid intake . Because of the prior regurgitation, I am reluctant to feed him peas just yet, what I would like to do feed him some formula balls, as these will readily breakdown and pass through, on the chance there is canker in his crop slowing things down. If you can but a box of baby cereal and then measure out 3 tablespoons of the cereal, to this add 1 teaspoon of olive oil, stir in well until all flakes are moistened, then add 1 teaspoon of warm water, stir until it comes together into a "dough" and break off small pieces, about the size of a green pea and feed. as in the clip below.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uU1SO0ZJoow
> 
> Start with 10 balls, twice a day, and see how he does, we want to make sure they move from his crop and through his GI, you should start to see a change in his droppings once the food makes it through. Once we know things are moving through well, we can increase things some for him. Time the feedings with guiding his beak to fluids right after, so he has fluids added to the food you have just feed to help him digest it. Here are samples of the type cereal I mean:


Hmmm...This clip makes it look like a piece of cake! He's not playing ball, formula balls to be exact.

So I managed to give him four  and then he just completely freaked out, I even did the beak massage, like before beak guiding. Which calms him a little but then as soon as I held his beak open he freaks out and tries to whip his beak out of my grip. And now he's sat on the floor all fluffed up looking really sorry for himself.

I'm getting really worried that he's going to die without some food soon? How long can they last with nothing in there belly? 

Not a happy chap today

laura


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Laura, yes, the bird in the clip is being quite cooperative . To control him a little better, wrap him in a small towel, so just his head is peeking out. If you had a second person to hold him in their lap, while you have two hands free, it may be easier, but with the towel it should make things easier even alone. Gently open his mouth and "pop" the balls to the back of his mouth/top of throat, and he will swallow. If it helps, you can just make the balls smaller and feed twice as much. Let us know how you make out, as you're right, we need to get some food into him. Try guiding his beak after, but if you say yesterday he drank 10mL on his own, then he may be OK on his own for water, but try and prompt him to drink after feeding.

Karyn


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## frog pigeon (Oct 18, 2011)

Dobato said:


> Laura, yes, the bird in the clip is being quite cooperative . To control him a little better, wrap him in a small towel, so just his head is peeking out. If you had a second person to hold him in thier lap, while you have two hand it may be easier, but it with the towel it should make things easier. Gently open his mouth and "pop" the ball to the back of his mouth/top of throat, and he will swallow. If it helps, you can just make the balls small and feed twice as much. Let us know how you make out, as you're right, we need to get some food into him. Try guiding his beak, but if you say yesterday he drank 10mL on his own, then he may ne OK on his own for water, but try and prompt him to drink.
> 
> Karyn



Hahaha! He was wrapped in a towel...

I'm going to give it another go...Also another question, while I'm here. Since a few days I've had the shutters to my bedroom shut, because I have no curtains and I was scared he might fly into the window, but I'm starting to get a bit depressed not seeing the light of day. Do you think it's ok to have the shutters open to put some light into the room. He seems more active with them open and maybe it will prompt him to eat and drink?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

frog pigeon said:


> Hahaha! He was wrapped in a towel...
> 
> I'm going to give it another go...Also another question, while I'm here. Since a few days I've had the shutters to my bedroom shut, because I have no curtains and I was scared he might fly into the window, but I'm starting to get a bit depressed not seeing the light of day. Do you think it's ok to have the shutters open to put some light into the room. He seems more active with them open and maybe it will prompt him to eat and drink?


Yes, give it another go. Please go ahead and open up your shutters, but tape a few strips of paper to a few of the window panes, so he understands he can't fly though the glass. They understand things pretty quickly.

Karyn


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## frog pigeon (Oct 18, 2011)

Ok so I've managed to give him more so he's had about 10-12 now, but he's being a right pain in the bum when I'm trying to give him some water too, he's had a bit, but he's forgotten about how good he was yesterday and he's hiding in the towel. so I'm going to leave him again for a bit. He got himself totally stressed out.  

It's two steps forward three steps back with this little chap! 

I'm trying to find some pigeon noises on the net that I can play to him, because I was watching pidge vids on youtube and he seemed really interested when they were making there cute little sounds.

Come on Frog Pigeon, don't give up. 

Laura


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Laura,
Don't worry too much that he's being a difficult about the feeding. I know the video makes it look calm and easy but believe me, I've just been to give two of mine some meds and they slap, grunt, bite, in fact hate me when I try and open their beaks.
Just give him a break every so often to relax. Wrapping him in a towel will certainly help.
If you think back, he didn't like the drinking lessons until he realised it got him water, so he'll hopefully cotton on that this is food going in soon.
It's only for a while until he starts eating for himself again.

You stay relaxed, you're doing fine.

Janet


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## frog pigeon (Oct 18, 2011)

God! I'm going out of my mind with him! I can't stand having him in my bedroom anymore, I leave for a few hours and there's bird pooh everywhere  

He was calm and now he hates me, he won't eat he won't drink and I've just about had it with him to be honest. 

I've tried the syringe and he doesn't drink the liquid he just flicks his head, so I've tried beak guiding and he does the same but worse.

He can't eat for him self and he hasn't drank a thing all day. I could cry. Really at about boiling point. And no one will help me.

I opened the shutters and he just spent the whole time flying at the window. They are Georgian windows too so little square panes of glass so he knows it there...he just poohed all over my window sill...and he even poohed on my laptop. 

I can't shut him in the box because it's too small and he just goes mental!

I don't know what to do...I wish we had an empty room that I could put him in. 

Super stressed and at the end of my tether...

Laura


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Laura, it might be best at this point to confine him to a larger box. If you can pick up a good sized one in your area, 30"x30"X20" or so, you can cut a good sized window (15"x12") in the front, to allow in light and for him to observe what's going on around him. Most times I then recommend just taping a piece of fly screen to the cut hole, but to make it easier for you, you could use some clear plastic wrap, if finding a piece of screen is going to be difficult. Also cut some long 1" slots near the top, to let in more light and to allow air circulation, and you should be good, just line inside with newspaper, get an old brick for him to perch on, place this near his window and then place a paper towel under the brick for easy clean up. Perhaps you can even place the box an a table where he can look out onto the street/outside.

When many of us here have our own birds become ill, then a good deal of time they are confined to a hospital cage, like what your box will be, until better. You can place water and small seeds in with him, make sure both are 1-2" deep.

I hope doing this will give you a break from the frustration you are feeling, hang in there .

Karyn


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Laura, Karyn's right about maybe keeping Frog more confined for ease.

Any I have for treatment stay in a large box in my airing cupboard as it's warm and I just get them out when I have to clean and change the paper towel and wash and fill food and water dishes.
I can't even let ones that can fly have any free flying time as we have a domed window in the downstairs bathroom I take them in to give meds etc. They see the window in the roof and fly up and it's a job to get them down.
If you think you can find a larger box and fix it up then you could just give him some free time when you're in the room, just for a short time so he keeps his muscles toned!! and then won't have the job of going around poop collecting. 

As far as fighting you and shaking his head when you do the guiding thing for water, that's normal, I get it all the time. If they don't want a drink, they don't want one! That's the only way he can tell you.
I personally wouldn't worry too much about making him drink now as you know he can do it OK after yesterdays show, and I'm sure he'll drink when he wants if you leave him with a bowl.
Then all you have to bother with is giving him the meds fluids which is important to get in him.
Just wrap him up with his face showing and have him on your lap then you've got both hands free to open his beak and you can drip the meds in a drop at a time at the front of his beak, on his tongue until he's had the full dose. Then you can let him go back in his box to calm down if he's annoyed!
Same with the food balls. Have some calming music on, (that's for you not Frog!!) and all will be well with the world!!
Sorry I'm not meaning to be sarcastic, hope it doesn't come across like it, Just want you to know how he's behaving is absolutely normal and you don't necessarily need to spend time trying to make friends with him if he's going back to the big bad world soon, just handle doing what's needed to help him get well and it'll be well worth all the hassle...honestly.

Janet


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## frog pigeon (Oct 18, 2011)

I've made his new box, complete with window, (he hates it) He won't stop flapping about in there. He's spilled all his water and soaked the bottom of the box... hmmmmm.

I fed him his meds and formula balls, no water though...he just won't take it in. It's like he doesn't even remember how to drink now.

He still doesn't know how to eat either, still tries to pick up the food, but just shakes his head and it flings away.

I had a friend help me earlier, he held him and I put the food in. Was so much easier!! But it worries me that he's not getting enough liquids. There's absolutely nothing I can do about it either, if he won't drink he won't drink. I can't force it down like the food. 

Oh he's just starting to calm down in there... *Phew* He stresses me out when he's all flappy like that. 

I think it's because he been used to being able to fly around my room into his box and out and now he's stuck again.  poor pidge, but I can't have him taking over my room with little poops everywhere!!

Please drink soon Frog! 

Thanks for the advise you two.

Laura


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Laura,
Yes, the spilling the drinking water when he's flapping is a pain.
Been there, done that, so annoying just when you've set everything up perfectly. No consideration these birds!
Maybe, if the box is big enough, put the drinking water in a small deep container inside another dish that's wider all round and so if it's knocked over it will just spill into the other dish.
Could use something like a cat litter tray in there to stand the water and food dish in then the box won't get wet and you've only got to take the tray out to clean or dry. His sitting area, with brick on the other side of the box.
When you first put him back in the box after feeding cover the whole box over with a towel or such like to keep him dark, window and all until he settles down, then you can gradually uncover the window bit so he can get some light.
Good idea getting a friend to help, glad that went ok. I was thinking today that he obviously knows how to eat as he threw up seeds when you first got him. They must have got in there somehow unless he's a youngster and was fed by an adult. Can't really tell from the pictures whether he's just young and hasn't learnt yet.
He's got his own ideas about what he likes and he may just be objecting to the menu choices. 
Just keep up feeding him like you are until we can see how his poops are looking. If we can see that things are moving through ok then we'll know if his degestive system is functioning reasonably well.

Thanks for the update, good job!

Janet


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Laura, he will adjust to the box, with a bit of time, but do get a brick in there for him to perch on, as he will settle down much sooner with a brick. The rest, as Janet mentions, is part of the deal with them in smaller space, again, that's why a brick is important, as they will perch and not spend a lot of time wandering around. Yes, a second pair of hands helps a lot, after feeding, pull a bit of the towel over him, so he is like in a little cave, this will calm him down. give him a minute, then try guiding his beak to water before putting him back.

Karyn


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## frog pigeon (Oct 18, 2011)

Once again you both have such great ideas! I will put his water in another tray. And yes I will try the cave technique after feeding. It's so frustrating because I know he can be beak guided now! He's just a little tease! 

I already had the brick in there, but I think that maybe the idea of keeping him in the dark for a bit might be a good one. I did just feed him then put him into his knew box and opened the shutters in one go, so he probably had an overload.

His poohs are smaller today and some have hardly any white to them, they are still dark green in the middle and either clear or white ish round the edge. This seems worrying to me. 

I hope he's not going to go down hill again on me. I feel like we've come such a long way from the day he was almost dead on the road. 

How can I tell if he's a young bird by looking at him?
How long do they normally sleep?

I think he's cold too, because he kept sitting on my lamp for warmth, I did put a hot water bottle in his box with him, (I wish I had a heat pad.) I'm pretty cold in my room too to be honest, hahaha!

Is it still 10 balls twice a day? Or shall I wait to see if they are being digested first? 

Oh and my house mates bought two ducklings from the market the other day!! So we've got ducks too now! pffff! hahahaha! 

Laura & Frog


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi,

Hard to say if you can tell if he's a youngster if he's fully feathered. If they're fledglings, just out of the nest then they can still have the odd yellowy feathers around their heads. Otherwise if he's properly developed then maybe they seem thinner than adults but apart from this it's behaviour that's more of a clue. May not be that competent at flying yet or, as yours is doing, can't pick up food well.
We'll just have to carry on doing what we've said for now regardless and hopefully he'll get it together once his health is back on track.

Love ducklings... so cute. 

Let's see what tomorrow brings with Frog...one day at a time really,

Janet


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Laura, my impression, from the earlier photos you posted of this bird that he was an adult bird. The 10 balls twice a day is OK just for the moment, but we want to increase this ASAP, but want to make sure things are moving through him. Do you think you could post up a few photos of his fresh droppings?

Karyn


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## frog pigeon (Oct 18, 2011)

Here we go ladies!!!

I've had the best day yet with my beautiful Frog!! 

First of all he hates his cage!! Hahahaha! But then again he is an animal who has wings so it's really justified!

BUT!... When I let him out he is a little angel pie!! He sits on my lamp to get warm, (he poohs all over it mind, but actually I don't care!) 

AND...Today he has eaten all the rest of the mixture that I made, I didn't have time to count but he had the hunger!! maybe 40 balls!! or a bit less...I can't really know but he told me he was hungry buy pecking me, but not in and attacking kinda way in a trying to find food kinda way. 

This is the reason that I think that maybe he is after all a young bird, because he sits on my lap or hand without fear now. And I've just finished playing with him. In fact I'm trying to teach him how to have a bath in a ceramic bowl that I have, I saw it on youtube that they like to have a wash, but instead he just drank the water, (but that's great too!)

To start with me and my friend gave him his food balls like earlier today, wrapped in the towel. However ealier, after his food, I took him on my lap and genitally let him out the towel (whilst still on my lap) to see if he might beak guide like that, (because the little cave technique didn't work either) And even though he didn't drink much like that, he did stay on my lap, and sort of like a baby bird asking for more food, he kept pecking my fingers and hand, (not in a aggressive way though) Then I didn't catch on to what he wanted, I just thought he was being silly...

...So anyway after the second feed about half an hour ago...(OOOOhhh! It was sooo good!) Tim let him out the towel on to his lap, (bearing in mind he doesn't really like pigeons) So then I started to feed him just sat on Tim's lap without him being held, I still had to open his beak, but he really let me!! Oh it was so wonderful I can't even tell you! So he was so hungry he just kept asking for more by gently pecking me. Then Tim left so we were on our own and I put him on the floor and got down to his level and started feeding him the same, but after a while it got less and less forceful, if you know what I mean? Like I'm holding it in front of his beak and he grabs my fingers a few times AND THEN!!! EUREKA! he took it out of my fingers...and....da da daaaaa! He swallowed it down! YES! SO SO SO HAPPY!!

The only problem I have now is that I think he is becoming a bit tame, well not necessarily tame tame, but he is really at ease with me now. He will sit on my knee for warmth and he will play with me a bit too. I can stroke and tickle under his feathers. 

But I don't think that it's a bad thing necessarily, because I don't intend to abandon him ever. I have a big garden and a balcony just outside my window, so when I free him he can always come and stay with me when he wants...and my cat just got killed   so it's like fate! (sad fate) What do you think? 

He is so sweet, I grow more and more fond of him the longer he is with me! 

And I could never have done it without you two my pigeon lover friends! 

until next time xxx

peace out 

Laura & Frog


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Sounds like things are getting much smoother with Frog . It's important that you don't give more than 15 balls per feeding, even if he wants more, and that he drinks after each feeding. What we are essentially doing with feeding the formula balls is make shift way of what we call tube feeding, this is where a liquid hand-feeding formula is feed directly into the crop by a tube. By feeding the balls, we are adding the solids part to his crop and then relying on him to drink the liquid part to mix together in his crop. If you feed too many balls at one feeding, it will require too great and amount of water to mix down and move through his GI, so 10-15 at a time, 3-4 times, spaced throughout the day.

Let's take it a day at a time right now and hold off on plans for him so we don't get too far ahead of ourselves .

Good job,

Karyn


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Laura, I've only just seen your update, Have a devil of a job getting on her when my daughter has a day off. 

Well what a difference a day makes, (or two)!

So pleased Frog is getting the hang of what you're doing to help. I can just imagine how happy you must have felt, great to hear.

Keep him on track like this and together with the meds...(hopefully ), we can start to feel a lot more confident. Just as Karyn says, gently does it!

Well done,

Janet


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## frog pigeon (Oct 18, 2011)

oh dear...

... he ate more than that earlier, however he drank all his water bowl too...but your advise is duely noted. He eats the formula balls on his own now, I just make them and he eats them. Although he still can't grasp how to eat the seeds that I've given him. He's obviously drinking fine on his own too, because like I said the bowl was empty (and it's a large flat bottomed ramekin so it wasn't spilled over)

I haven't taken photos of his poohs still because the quality of my camera phone is so terrible, but they have changed really dramatically to an olive green/brown colour and less like a splat and more like a small sort of worm shape (kinda like a mini dog pooh) but surrounded by a clear or sometimes white ish liquid. Oh and they are bigger too, sometimes bigger than a 50 pence.

He's less fluffed up these days too, except when he's sleeping.

He's even started to have a routine, He goes back in his box with a hot water bottle (not too hot) at night and when I get up, (or when he wakes me up flapping!!) I let him out and he just sits on my lamp and then walks around the room a bit, then goes back to the lamp. 

How long more do you think I need to keep him for? I know he has his course of meds to finish, but I'm just wondering what stage he need to be at for release? And also how to release him and where to release him 

It's going to be emotional when I do, happy and sad, because I've grown quite fond of the little chappy. But also it will be so brilliant to see him fly away free.

Oh yeah and he's started to make little sounds!  

Laura & Frog


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Laura, try your best to get up some photos of what is coming out his back end, as this will be useful in determining how food is moving through him and how well he is processing hos food and also may shop tell tale signs of other issues.

We still want to have him also go through a course of Metronidazole and also finish his course of Amoxicillin, which will be about 10 days, so he will be with you a little while still.

Good to hear that he can feed himself the balls, and is interested, just not too many at one time as mentioned.

Karyn


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## frog pigeon (Oct 18, 2011)

How much longer is the course of Amoxicillin ten days? Or the Metronidazole is ten days? 

He's not interested in the water again now!! Silly bird! 

Laura


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Yes, we will do 10 days of the Amoxicillin and about 7-10 days of the Metronidazole, you will need instructions on the Metronidazole when you get it.

Karyn


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi, sorry, my internet keeps dropping off just when I get a chance to come on and see what's new! so just catching up with news on Frog.

Sounds good, at least with a routine it makes it a bit easier for you to monitor his progress as you know pretty well what he's eating and drinking now.

As Karyn said, he'll need to stay until he's completed the Flagyl course, (I use the word Flagyl as it's easier to spell than Metron....!

When it comes to thinking about release though, you do need to consider company and safety for him rather than just letting him go.
Do you actually get feral pigeons in your garden area because as nice as it may seem for him to stay around there, he'll no doubt wander off further afield if there aren't any other pigeons for him to integrate with.
If he's not a youngster, there's always a possiblity he has a mate 'back home' where you found him. If so he'll probably try to find his way back there, don't know how far away you live from there, and in some ways it would be safer for him to go back to where he knows.
Of course the down side of that is if he was sick through eating bad seeds etc, then he'd be safer in a new environment. Not an easy decision but over the next couple of weeks you could start to keep an eye open and suss out those two options, your garden or back in town, and see which looks the best place from his point of view.
Don't want to do anything yet but won't hurt to get a few ideas with regard to fors and againsts!

No meds yet I assume?

Janet


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## frog pigeon (Oct 18, 2011)

I had thought about him wanting to fly back to where he was...But also, I don't really like the thought of releasing him back into the city, with all the cars and danger. However you are right he might just fly back anyway. It's about 10 minutes away by car from here...hmmmm... 

I'm pretty sure we've got all sorts of birds in our garden, but I didn't really encourage them with food, because until a few weeks ago we had a cat. She was recently killed by a car, so I wanted to start feeding the birds this winter. I would love for them to come on my roof terrace.

No post yet I'm afraid, I will look again tomorrow.  Fingers crossed!!

And sorry, Karyn, that's 10 more days, or ten days altogether? I don't want to give him too much!

Laura x


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## frog pigeon (Oct 18, 2011)

Poop poopy poop poop!


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

That's 10 days altogether, so just a few more days of the Amoxicillin. Thanks for the photo, it does show the food is making its way through him, but not a lot of detail in the quality, anyone around with a little better camera to get a clearer shot?

Karyn


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## frog pigeon (Oct 18, 2011)

Dobato said:


> That's 10 days altogether, so just a few more days of the Amoxicillin. Thanks for the photo, it does show the food is making its way through him, but not a lot of detail in the quality, anyone around with a little better camera to get a clearer shot?
> 
> Karyn


I know, that's why I didn't bother to take a photo before, I thought I could better describe it than you could see it in the photo. 

I have got a camera but I have no cable for it so, no unfortunately, that's as good as it gets I'm afraid! 

The meds have still not arrived  Maybe it's been controlled by the...controllers! Pfff...

Oh yeah...he took his first bath yesterday! I didn't witness it, but when I came back into my room he was all wet and preening, and there was water all over the floor hahaha! 

laura


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Laura, shame you missed the bath. Always so funny when they first try it!

Really annoying about the meds. It has no declaration on it so for all they know it's just a birthday card, so hope it's not got 'lost'.
2/3 days she said but I think I can track it from the form I had so if no go tomorrow, I'll try and have a look into where it's gone.

It's a good thing Frog's picked up with what you've been giving him so far, lucky you at least had something to use.

Keep fingers crossed for some news,

Janet


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Any news on meds and how Frog is doing?


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