# Water Freezing



## Knoc (Jul 10, 2010)

The last few nights here in Minnesota has gotten pretty cold and has froze my birds water solid. My loft is fully insulated, so it usually doesnt happen that often, but I was wondering what you guys use as far as heated water tanks/bowls.
I was thinking about picking up a heated dog bowl but worried they might try to bathe in it. Any suggestions or does anyone know of a company that makes on specifically for birds?


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

All the pigeon supply houses have them or you can make your own.
Dave


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## Feathered Dragons (Oct 15, 2010)

*Try this*

Here is a cheap way to do it and you can pick them up at Wal-mart. Check out the link. 

http://www.redroselofts.com/water_heater.htm


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## Rooster241- (Nov 16, 2010)

Forget that stuff. It would be cheaper to buy an air bubbler for a fish tank. Or even a little filter for a fish tank would work. :-D


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## Feathered Dragons (Oct 15, 2010)

i never heard of that one. Is that what you do?


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## Knoc (Jul 10, 2010)

I dont want a bubbler, they tend to freeze up overtime as well. And honestly I dont see them coffee cup warmers doing the job. I have that bullet waterer now (like the one shown) and its the top part that freezes solid, while the bottom part stays slushy, so Im sure with the coffee cup heater it would do the same.
Do they make any actual heated watering devices that are made specifically for this? Ive looked around on numerous suppliers and havnt found much besides what has been already posted.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

So make your own a wood box 14 in square with a light fixture in the bottom, cut a whole for the water to sit on and use a 30 watt bulb. When it gets real cold use a 60 watt bulb. Thats what I made for the real cold days.
Dave

Also getting it 14 in off the ground there should be a lot less poo in it.


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## Kiko&Kalani (Aug 10, 2010)

Here is a web site for heated bird baths and de-icers. Something on there might work for you.

http://www.bird-house-bath.com/heated-bird-baths.html


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## Rooster241- (Nov 16, 2010)

mcox. Yeah it works if you have a filter or bubbler strong enough. If the water is moving it doesnt usually freeze. It all depends on the pump and the stone at the end and the size of water dish. If its like a kitty pan size, you can get a bubbler that goes from end to end. Or set up a filter higher up so that the water splashes down. I've seen pigeons drink out of fountains before. :-D


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## Birdman79 (Aug 9, 2007)

The coffee cup warmer works flawlessly for me....


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Birdman79 said:


> The coffee cup warmer works flawlessly for me....


I went out last weekend looking for one........You think I could find one around here? Walmart didn't even have them


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## Feathered Dragons (Oct 15, 2010)

Good point gbhman.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

gbhman said:


> Pour the water out in the evening after they are done eating and drinking and refill it the next day. You should be changing the water everyday anyways, so why wait until it freezes? (not like they are going to drink during the dark of the night anyways). It's how I've always done it and there is no need to mess with any silly heaters.


I feed and water twice a day.....7 am and about 6 pm when I get home from work. By the time I get home from work, their water is frozen. I use those black heavy rubber bowls in the winter, and the ice breaks out pretty easy.
Never used a heater before....just thought I'd try it


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## Knoc (Jul 10, 2010)

I have been watering them twice a day and Im sure they have been getting enough water, but I like to keep water in there overnight for them just incase. I have babies in there so I like to have all essentials there for the birds if they need them.

Yesterday I put in some tuppaware bowls and the ice seemed to pop out alot easier and it didnt seem as frozen solid as it did the night before and it was even colder last night. Was more slushy and I noticed when I went in there, there was a couple drinking. Id still like some sort of heater though for a piece of mind.


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## Feathered Dragons (Oct 15, 2010)

mcox0112 said:


> Here is a cheap way to do it and you can pick them up at Wal-mart. Check out the link.
> 
> http://www.redroselofts.com/water_heater.htm


If you are watering twice a day try what I posted before and only fill your water half way. You shouldnt have any problem. If your water is a little slushy that is ok too. They can suck the water through the slush.


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## Parlor Fan (Jan 20, 2009)

What I haved been doing is buying the smaller heated dog dishes and putting a gallon ice cream bucket with holes cut over it.Works for me !!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

New England Pigeon Supply sells them

http://www.nepigeonsupplies.com/water_fountains_heaters.htm


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

And Foy's sells this one for about $17. It works with plastic waterers too.










http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/catalog/248.html


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## JRNY (Nov 17, 2009)

I have extra drinkers in the house. So I switch bring the frozen ones in. When its time to water again they are already melted. I leave them by the boiler.


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## Knoc (Jul 10, 2010)

Jay3 said:


> And Foy's sells this one for about $17. It works with plastic waterers too.


Does a person have to worry about it getting so hot that it might start a fire? I have straw on the floor of my loft and would hate to burn down the place.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Knoc said:


> Does a person have to worry about it getting so hot that it might start a fire? I have straw on the floor of my loft and would hate to burn down the place.


It only gets hot enough to keep the water from freezing, but I would set it on a flagstone or piece of slate or something anyway. I would feel safer with it than a coffee warmer. Some people keep them on a low table or shelf in the loft. Or a patio brick.


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## Knoc (Jul 10, 2010)

I had to ask because the one below this one said "This thing gets hot!" then talks about how its ok to set plastic on. I just dont want to burn the place down..


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Maybe it is not hot, but just warm. You can, for example, put hot water on a plastic bottle and it doesn't necessarily will melt it. Obviously to be on the safe side, isolate that from anything that can catch fire. Just do what the other person says like this:http://www.redroselofts.com/water_heater.htm


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I can understand your concern, but unless some sort of heat is provided, your birds just don't have access to fresh water for long stretches during the cold weather. I think it's important that they always have access to water.


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## rfboyer (Jun 18, 2009)

Knoc said:


> Does a person have to worry about it getting so hot that it might start a fire? I have straw on the floor of my loft and would hate to burn down the place.


Similar heaters to the one (pictured upthread) from Foy's don't get too hot to put your hand on. 
If the electric service in your loft is generally safe (wires dressed back if not in conduit, etc) and varmints that chew wires don't have access to your loft, they shouldn't be a fire hazard.

We use them with the "bullet" drinkers, set on plywood shelves (in some coops) or just raised off the floor with an overturned large terra cotta nest bowl.
Last winter, using these heaters, the water in the tall (~1.75 gal) bullet drinkers froze, but there was always some water unfrozen in the base. The water in the shorter (1 gal) bullet drinkers only had a skim of ice on it, if any.

(speaking for southwestern PA winter weather; other places YMMV )


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## ccccrnr (Jun 15, 2010)

gbhman said:


> Pour the water out in the evening after they are done eating and drinking and refill it the next day. You should be changing the water everyday anyways, so why wait until it freezes? (not like they are going to drink during the dark of the night anyways). It's how I've always done it and there is no need to mess with any silly heaters.


I'll give that a try, I've been doing all my pigeon stuff in the evening after getting home in the dark
maybe they'll have to be moved up in the order i do stuff in the evening
and put the water back in as i leave in the morning
as i don't have electricity in my loft


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

gbhman said:


> Pour the water out in the evening after they are done eating and drinking and refill it the next day. You should be changing the water everyday anyways, so why wait until it freezes? (not like they are going to drink during the dark of the night anyways). It's how I've always done it and there is no need to mess with any silly heaters.



Well this may be fine where you live, but in many places the water will be frozen in a few hours. That means the birds won't have access to water for a good part of the day. Some like their birds to have water when they want it.


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## skybendersloft (Nov 6, 2010)

If you are looking for candle warmers, look at Walgreens or CVS in Minnesota by the auto stuffs. They are about $7.00.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I wouldn't trust a candle warmer as much as I would trust a heater made for keeping waterers unfrozen.


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## benjajudy01 (Feb 18, 2007)

I use the Coffee Warmer/Candle Warmer that is show on Red Rose Lofts site and it works GREAT for me and it is cheap. http://www.redroselofts.com/water_heater.htm


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Well, whatever works for you.


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## rackerman (Jul 29, 2009)

Knoc said:


> The last few nights here in Minnesota has gotten pretty cold and has froze my birds water solid. My loft is fully insulated, so it usually doesnt happen that often, but I was wondering what you guys use as far as heated water tanks/bowls.
> I was thinking about picking up a heated dog bowl but worried they might try to bathe in it. Any suggestions or does anyone know of a company that makes on specifically for birds?


*This is what I use, I got them from Walmart for $14.97 each. I used one last winter and I never had the water freeze. I just bought another one for my other loft. They hold a quart of water. Here is the company site (http://www.farminnovators.com they come in different sizes, click on heated pet bowls. I did make a lid out of old tupperware bowl for them. They do work great.*


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## rackerman (Jul 29, 2009)

Here it is in the loft with the lid I made. This bowl is super good.


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## TENTIL (Dec 8, 2010)

Just remember that keeping water warm increases the likelyhood of a build up of bacteria in the waterers... Be careful!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The water heaters you buy don't really keep it warm.Just enough not to freeze. It would be warmer on a warm summer day. I don't know how warm the dog bowls keep it, but the coffee warmers would keep it kinda warm. They do get hot. With those, you may need to change it more often. 

Rackerman, how warm do they keep the water?


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

TENTIL said:


> Just remember that keeping water warm increases the likelyhood of a build up of bacteria in the waterers... Be careful!


If folk do the usual cleaning & changing as per normal routine then there should be no problem, The heater should only keep the temp just above freezing, not actualy "warm"


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## rackerman (Jul 29, 2009)

Jay3 said:


> The water heaters you buy don't really keep it warm.Just enough not to freeze. It would be warmer on a warm summer day. I don't know how warm the dog bowls keep it, but the coffee warmers would keep it kinda warm. They do get hot. With those, you may need to change it more often.
> 
> Rackerman, how warm do they keep the water?


The water is not warm at all, it just keeps it from freezing and it gets cleaned and changed daily.


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## rackerman (Jul 29, 2009)

Quazar said:


> If folk do the usual cleaning & changing as per normal routine then there should be no problem, The heater should only keep the temp just above freezing, not actualy "warm"


You said it..... Its a great waterer for winter.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

rackerman said:


> The water is not warm at all, it just keeps it from freezing and it gets cleaned and changed daily.


I didn't think it would actually warm the water. Why would a dog want to drink warm water. Thanks. I'm sure that would work. I like your cover.


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## rackerman (Jul 29, 2009)

Jay3 said:


> I didn't think it would actually warm the water. Why would a dog want to drink warm water. Thanks. I'm sure that would work. I like your cover.


This is the best thing that I have come across. I used one in my loft last winter and had no problems with water freezing, even with below zero temps. My birds are happy to have fresh water thats not frozen. I think if anyone in a cold climate tries it, they would agree with me. I just want to share it for the people who want to solve there water from freezing. 
IT WORKS GREAT FOR ME.


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## ND Cooper (Mar 4, 2008)

Knoc, please describe your loft, in detail. that would sure help us alot.
I just use rinsed out automitive antifreeze containers, laying on their sides, cap on, lable cut out. When the top ice freezes, iI just run out (when I let the dogs out every 2 hours anyways) and break it open with a old hammer. At the most, it's only a 8th " thick, and it gets COLD up here.
Of course, I have the time to do that during daylight hours.
About noon time, I'll supply new COLD Water (warm, or hot Freezes Faster than Cold will, sientific Fact!)
At night they go without.
You Must supply water for your Pigeons during the winter! They will Not survive eating just snow!
Every morning, I just fill with Fresh clean water, because every night, I just tap out the Ice and it's empty for the morning fill. (Good Morning) 
The water supplied for your Pigeons actually supplies heat for their bodies throughout the day. 
Same go's for us humans, when we are very cold. 
Booze has the Direct Opposite effect, we get cold, and Freeze!


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## Ross Howard (Nov 26, 2009)

gbhman said:


> Pour the water out in the evening after they are done eating and drinking and refill it the next day. You should be changing the water everyday anyways, so why wait until it freezes? (not like they are going to drink during the dark of the night anyways). It's how I've always done it and there is no need to mess with any silly heaters.


Ditto----pigeons only drink after eating. Heated water can be an incubator for disease. The light bulb in the box if u have to have heat is the best doesn't get to warm.


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## rackerman (Jul 29, 2009)

nobody gets it......................


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

I've never had heated water dishes, and never had a problem.
I change their water twice a day when I feed them.
So I don't think I'm going to bother getting heated dishes.
On the other hand.....I think I have to pick up at least one for my goats


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## Feathered Dragons (Oct 15, 2010)

rackerman said:


> nobody gets it......................


I get it.


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## rackerman (Jul 29, 2009)

mcox0112 said:


> I get it.


Thanks.......


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## Knoc (Jul 10, 2010)

I ended up taking a heated dog bowl, and cutting a piece of wood out with guides that made it sit on top of the bowl sturdy, and cut out a bunch of holes in it a little smaller than a baseball. 
So far its been working pretty good. The water gets pretty dirty within a day since they stand up there basically on the water, but I change it a couple times a day anyway, so no biggie. Least this way it isnt frozen.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Wouldn't a cover like Rackerman has work better, as they wouldn't be standing on it? You could even make a cover like that with wood, that covers the bowl.


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## Pip Logan (Oct 6, 2009)

That cover was pretty snazzy!


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## rackerman (Jul 29, 2009)

Knoc said:


> I ended up taking a heated dog bowl, and cutting a piece of wood out with guides that made it sit on top of the bowl sturdy, and cut out a bunch of holes in it a little smaller than a baseball.
> So far its been working pretty good. The water gets pretty dirty within a day since they stand up there basically on the water, but I change it a couple times a day anyway, so no biggie. Least this way it isnt frozen.


Good for u.........what ever works bro.........


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## rackerman (Jul 29, 2009)

Jay3 said:


> Wouldn't a cover like Rackerman has work better, as they wouldn't be standing on it? You could even make a cover like that with wood, that covers the bowl.


Thanks Jay............A cover is best...........


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## Thunderbird Racing (Jul 24, 2010)

Crazy Pete said:


> So make your own a wood box 14 in square with a light fixture in the bottom, cut a whole for the water to sit on and use a 30 watt bulb. When it gets real cold use a 60 watt bulb. Thats what I made for the real cold days.
> Dave
> 
> Also getting it 14 in off the ground there should be a lot less poo in it.


I did this(^) and bought these ( v )...no more frozen water here...it is 8* with the wind chill right now, and I just came in from checking water...not even slush

http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/catalog/298.html


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Chromie said:


> I did this(^) and bought these ( v )...no more frozen water here...it is 8* with the wind chill right now, and I just came in from checking water...not even slush
> 
> http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/catalog/298.html


Good for you! I think you'll be happy with them. And your birds will have access to water 24/7 as they should have.


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## Thunderbird Racing (Jul 24, 2010)

Jay3 said:


> Good for you! I think you'll be happy with them. And your birds will have access to water 24/7 as they should have.


I don't want my birds to be without water, and I don't want my wife or kids out in the loft when it is this cold messing with it while I am at work either...

this just made sense to me after being mentioned it was a no brainer for me.


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## Knoc (Jul 10, 2010)

rackerman said:


> Thanks Jay............A cover is best...........


I got the exact same bowl as you I think. Holds a gallon of water? The thing Im worried about is the birds going in under the cover and bathing. Do they sneak in there?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Knoc said:


> I got the exact same bowl as you I think. Holds a gallon of water? The thing Im worried about is the birds going in under the cover and bathing. *Do they sneak in there?*


*

*


If they do, we want pictures. That would be funny! If you are worried about that, you could always make 2 smaller holes, in the cover, instead of the one large one.


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## Knoc (Jul 10, 2010)

My bowl stands pretty tall too. I dont think they could really reach to deep in the bowl that way. Maybe have to make a ring perch around it or something..


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## Mader631 (Sep 7, 2008)

16" x 14" Box 6" high.........plywood bottom.........light fixter inside the box screwed to the 6" high side.....60watt Bulb. For the top, cut a whole just smaller than the size of your belgian waterers, place the water onb top the whole & This keeps (Plastic) Belgian waterer from freezing in my Wisconsin winters. Cheap & easy!


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## rono842 (Dec 12, 2010)

hi guys
are you saying that pigions do not want any water during the night,if i hear you right than how about food,thanks


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Well when it's dark, they sleep. They don't see well in the dark, so wouldn't be flying around drinking water. Now if you were to keep the lights on, then they would drink.


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

Hey, I haven't read all the comments here, so I don't know if this has been resolved or not, but one of my lofts is fully insulated as well. I make sure the openings on the traps are well covered, and put a 75-250 watt flood lamp in the loft. The wattage depends on the temperature. My loft is divided in to three sections, with the door in the middle section. The middle part is for feed and supplies and for me to be in, the two outer sections for birds. I am able to put the lamp in the middle section and not worry about birds knocking it over and burning the place down. If yours is insulated the same way mine is, it is plywood>insulation>plywood, and a building near maximim bird capacity heats up pretty well on it's own if all the openings are closed, so the light provides any boosts necessary to heat the place to above freezing. Using this technique, it is also easy to heat the building up to 60 degrees plus, which allows for easier wintertime youngster raising. If your birds are on winter lockdown, this shouldn't be a problem for the birds. Because the higher temp would be a constant, and they wouldn't ever be exposed to the freezing outside temps after being warm inside the loft.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

ThePoultryFarm said:


> Hey, I haven't read all the comments here, so I don't know if this has been resolved or not, but one of my lofts is fully insulated as well. I make sure the openings on the traps are well covered, and put a 75-250 watt flood lamp in the loft. The wattage depends on the temperature. My loft is divided in to three sections, with the door in the middle section. The middle part is for feed and supplies and for me to be in, the two outer sections for birds. I am able to put the lamp in the middle section and not worry about birds knocking it over and burning the place down. If yours is insulated the same way mine is, it is plywood>insulation>plywood, and a building near maximim bird capacity heats up pretty well on it's own if all the openings are closed, so the light provides any boosts necessary to heat the place to above freezing. Using this technique, it is also easy to heat the building up to 60 degrees plus, which allows for easier wintertime youngster raising. If your birds are on winter lockdown, this shouldn't be a problem for the birds. Because the higher temp would be a constant, and they wouldn't ever be exposed to the freezing outside temps after being warm inside the loft.



If you close everything up so tight, how do they get ventilation?


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

I still leave the vents uncovered.. just plug up the traps and such. Granted, ventilation is reduced, but I don't see it harming them. It hasn't harmed mine, at least


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

BTW, my loft pretty much has to have vents open with a heat lamp on, otherwise the loft would get too hot.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Okay, thanks.


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## ND Cooper (Mar 4, 2008)

I don't coddel my Pigeons.
Mine are pretty much able to fly in ALL Kinds of Weather!
Why Not?
Maybe your Pigeons Need a heat lamp, or Expensive Insulated lofts, but mine don't! 
No Pigeon needs to eat, bath or breed, when it's night time. That's when they all get their rest. How would you like it if you had to try to sleep with a 60, or 100 Watt light in your eyes?
Pigeons, healthy Pigeons, can survive, Very Well at night without heated water dishes.
Just Don't forget to get up, and get the chores done every morning after you get up out of your nice warm home! 
Everyone keeps Pigeons differently, I try my best to keep them as Naturally as possable.
Got It?


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

*Be very careful with heat lamps and high wattage bulbs!*

I decided not to get a warmer, I just change their water twice a day - morning and evening. I've always done it this way, and their fine with it 
A local barn just burned down killing 2 goats. Another local barn burned last week, the owner was severely burned rescuing her 10 alpacas (llama's).
They were heating the water buckets!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Msfreebird said:


> I decided not to get a warmer, I just change their water twice a day - morning and evening. I've always done it this way, and their fine with it
> A local barn just burned down killing 2 goats. Another local barn burned last week, the owner was severely burned rescuing her 10 alpacas (llama's).
> They were heating the water buckets!


Using the high wattage heat lamps anywhere around water buckets is unsafe. They shatter easily, and can cause a fire. The reptile heaters are safer for warming an area of the loft if you want to do that.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

ND Cooper said:


> I don't coddel my Pigeons.
> Mine are pretty much able to fly in ALL Kinds of Weather!
> Why Not?
> *Maybe your Pigeons Need a heat lamp, or Expensive Insulated lofts, but mine don't! *
> ...



The heated loft is not just for the birds, but also for the keeper. If you enjoy spending time with the birds, you can't do that in freezing temps.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Jay3 said:


> The heated loft is not just for the birds, but also for the keeper. If you enjoy spending time with the birds,* you can't do that in freezing temps.*


I do!!!!
Although, if I could afford a heated loft, I'd like that better


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Msfreebird said:


> I do!!!!
> Although, if I could afford a heated loft, I'd like that better


I know. It's hard when the wind is whipping and snow piling up outside, to enjoy spending time in the loft without some heat. My birds are spoiled and probably think all pijjies live that way. LOL.


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

ND Cooper - The reason not to let pigeons that live in a heated loft out in freezing temps is because they will catch cold. If you take a bird that is living in a 70 degree temperature and set him out in 0 degrees, the cold would open him up for disease, if the temperature shock didn't already have him dead..  But I only have one heated loft, in unheated ones I have no problems with the birds being out


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

Jay3 said:


> Using the high wattage heat lamps anywhere around water buckets is unsafe. They shatter easily, and can cause a fire. The *reptile heaters* are safer for warming an area of the loft if you want to do that.


Hey Jay, are we thinking of the same thing on this one? When I read that I thought of the reptile under tank heaters. I think that that would be a really good idea for people that don't want to have to dump water bowls twice a day and can't have a heated loft. A company called Fluker's makes laminated heating pads, a fair sized water bowl could sit right on top and it would stay nice and toasty


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

Just re-read it and you may be talking about the ceramic heat emitters or the special reptile lights also though? The reptile people are pretty creative, there are so many directions one could go with loft heat provided by reptile supplies!


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

ThePoultryFarm said:


> Just re-read it and you may be talking about the ceramic heat emitters or the special reptile lights also though? The reptile people are pretty creative, there are so many directions one could go with loft heat provided by reptile supplies!


It's the ceramic heat coils that screw into a light socket. I have a couple for babies.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

One of the best lofts in the USA burnt down,with a 90% loss of all his pigeons..... Because of trying to heat the loft..This happened in 2009 I beleive,or the early part of 2010..The owner will probally never be able to recoup his family of birds,which he has bred for over many years....If your going to breed early,all you need is a 40 watt light bulb,under your water,to keep it from freezing...A 60 watt bulb for light,is real good,and you can keep it on 24/7..or....give the breeders at least 16 hrs a day of daylight for feeding the babies...HEAT is not neded...The parents will keep the babies warm....I have NO electric in my loft,and I have never had any babies FREEZE to death,in the 26 years I have had my racing pigeons.....Alamo


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## rackerman (Jul 29, 2009)

Alamo said:


> One of the best lofts in the USA burnt down,with a 90% loss of all his pigeons..... Because of trying to heat the loft..This happened in 2009 I beleive,or the early part of 2010..The owner will probally never be able to recoup his family of birds,which he has bred for over many years....If your going to breed early,all you need is a 40 watt light bulb,under your water,to keep it from freezing...A 60 watt bulb for light,is real good,and you can keep it on 24/7..or....give the breeders at least 16 hrs a day of daylight for feeding the babies...HEAT is not neded...The parents will keep the babies warm....I have NO electric in my loft,and I have never had any babies FREEZE to death,in the 26 years I have had my racing pigeons.....Alamo


Alamo, how cold does it get there in the winter?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Alamo said:


> One of the best lofts in the USA burnt down,with a 90% loss of all his pigeons..... Because of trying to heat the loft..This happened in 2009 I beleive,or the early part of 2010..The owner will probally never be able to recoup his family of birds,which he has bred for over many years....If your going to breed early,all you need is a 40 watt light bulb,under your water,to keep it from freezing...A 60 watt bulb for light,is real good,and you can keep it on 24/7..or....give the breeders at least 16 hrs a day of daylight for feeding the babies...HEAT is not neded...The parents will keep the babies warm....I have NO electric in my loft,and I have never had any babies FREEZE to death,in the 26 years I have had my racing pigeons.....Alamo




How was he heating his loft? There are ways that are safer than others.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

ThePoultryFarm said:


> Just re-read it and you may be talking about the ceramic heat emitters or the special reptile lights also though? The reptile people are pretty creative, there are so many directions one could go with loft heat provided by reptile supplies!


Yes. I was talking about the heat emitters. The under the tank things sound interesting too, although if you are going to go that route, why not just buy the heaters made for that purpose that the pigeon supply houses sell?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

ThePoultryFarm said:


> ND Cooper - The reason not to let pigeons that live in a heated loft out in freezing temps is because they will catch cold.* If you take a bird that is living in a 70 degree temperature and set him out in 0 degrees, the cold would open him up for disease, if the temperature shock didn't already have him dead..  * But I only have one heated loft, in unheated ones I have no problems with the birds being out



Who heats their loft to 70 degrees? I think the cooler temps are probably better for the birds anyway. But keeping it at 40 or 50 keeps it nicer for both them and you. And the water doesn't freeze. And they do go out in the aviary.


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

The UTH are just essentially sections of heat tape put in very heavy duty lamination. They are pretty cheap, compared to heaters supplied by the pigeon supply catalogs.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

ThePoultryFarm said:


> The UTH are just essentially sections of heat tape put in very heavy duty lamination. They are pretty cheap, compared to heaters supplied by the pigeon supply catalogs.


Thanks for explaining.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

In WVa here,we have cold weather,zero to 10 degrees,but mostly in the teens in Jan/Feb....I remember minus 5 degrees a few years ago,that lasted a couple of weeks,but this is a little uncommon for this state...I have no electric in my loft,because I rent property to have my lofts on,and there is no hook up for me to use...I put my breeders together Feb14th each year...That way,when the yb`s hatch,around the middle of March,the weather is breaking into the 30/35 degree range...That`s alot better for the yb`s,and in 2 weeks,April 1st or so,they are getting alot of feathering,to help them keep warm....I have never had any freeze,or die....My biggest problem,is water freezing,and the parents can`t give the YB`s a drink after feeding...So I go to the lofts,2 or 3 times a day,to bring fresh lukewarm water....My lofts are 1 mile from my home... 
The guy who`s lost his loft to fire had some kind of electric unit,which shorted out for some reason...I don`t remember exactly what kind it was..But the fancier said it was his fault,for not checking the unit out often,to make sure the wiring or whatever went bad,should have been replaced....
Remember,when it`s cold,all the germs are in seclusion...This time of the year,should be the healthyest time for your birds...They say to medicate your breeders before you start breeding...In 26 years,I have never done that...I refuse to medicate the breeders,unless I see a problem....I also have never inoculated any of my breeders,or my flying team...I refuse to do so because I want them to stay healthy because of their constitution,and genetic makeup...I hardly lose any birds from racing them....I had 20 2010 YB`s to start this year,and wound up with 15 yb`s in the loft when the racing season ended....Do I have the best pigeons in the USA,no way..Do I have very healthy,very inteligent,very good birds with great homing ability,yes I do...For me to keep ONLY 6 or 7 pair of breeders,8 to 10 pair of OB Natural flying pigeons,who don`t get lost in 600 mile races,and ONLY 20 to 24 YB`s each year,I must be doing something right....I just wished I would win a little more,to keep the Mrs off my back !! hahahahaha!!!!......Alamo


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

Nice bit of info Alamo, I totally agree with you on the medication thing. I think if anything we make our birds weaker by using unecessary medication. 

And that year that you said it got to -5, I believe that was the year I went deer hunting.. Talk about miserable. Where abouts in WV do you live?


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## Jeff Jar (Dec 27, 2010)

I read that the coffee cup heater works on this site, being a cheap person, that is the way I went, it works great here in Wisconsin, had a few days at zero or below, no problem at all. for $8.95 at Walmart, it has been working for 2 months now.


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## Lynnwood Lofts (Apr 12, 2010)

Crazy Pete said:


> So make your own a wood box 14 in square with a light fixture in the bottom, cut a whole for the water to sit on and use a 30 watt bulb. When it gets real cold use a 60 watt bulb. Thats what I made for the real cold days.
> Dave
> 
> Also getting it 14 in off the ground there should be a lot less poo in it.


I did the same thing...just made a box and put a bulb in it. However, I also made a 2 inch gap on the top and covered the gap with plexiglass to allow more heat to go directly up to the water. The water never gets warm...just keeps it from freezing. I also put a vent out the front and covered with chicken wire so it doesn't get too hot inside the box....the birds love it because they can sit in front of the vent. I put a shelf above the water so they don't sit on top and poo in it.








Since this photo, I've changed from the two small waterers to a 1 gallon waterer and made the shelf larger to accommodate the larger container. Since the shelf is larger, I now have their grit dish on it. It worked out really nice.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

That's cute, and throws a little warmth for the birds. Looks nice and cozy in there.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

Poultry Farm,I live in Fairmont,which is 15 miles south of Morgantown(WVU campus)...I love it here...Just wish we had a club here,like we did many years ago...Now,I have to fly with a club in Uniontown,Pa...Takes me 55/60 minutes to get there....Alamo


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

Hmm you should be about two and a half hours from where I usually stay up there then.  It is really pretty up in WV. Have you ever been to Clay by chance? It is a wonderful place. I would hate to have to drive that long! Why don't you just open up your own pigeon club?


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## randymcone (Nov 19, 2008)

My loft has an open air aviary that conects directly to the loft via a 5 foot wide and 7 foot tall passage. Basically an open door way. My loft is not insulated and is well ventilated. It does get below freezing here in North Georgia for a week or so during the winter. I use a Walmart coffee warmer under my waterer during that time just to prevent freezing. I do have 3 heat lamps with 60 watt bulbs positioned around all three banks of nest boxes. Honestly, a few of my birds will "bask" in front of the bulbs but none sleep there. I've seen ferals nesting under bridges in Chicago during the dead of winter. As long as they can avoid drats they are fine. My birds seem to thrive in colder weather. Heating a loft seems to be more for the owner than the occupents.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Every morning, the water has about 1 inch of ice on the top only. And the birds have poked a hole in it to drink before I get out there. We've been in the teens and single digits, plus just had a blizzard with wind chills 18 below. 
I keep their water in the flight cage, which is covered with heavy plastic for the winter. I also use those heavy black rubber dishes (used for livestock)- the water doesn't freeze as fast in those. And when it does, it only freezes at the top, so its very easy to break out. When I used plastic, the water was a block of ice in the morning.


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## ThePoultryFarm (Oct 1, 2010)

Msfree bird - Are you talking about those bendy rubber bowls? If so, I use them in around 12 or so of my pens as well, and even when it does freeze solid I can just turn it over and step on it to make the entire block of ice fall out with no damage to the bowl. They work great!


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

ThePoultryFarm said:


> Msfree bird - Are you talking about those bendy rubber bowls? If so, I use them in around 12 or so of my pens as well, and even when it does freeze solid I can just turn it over and step on it to make the entire block of ice fall out with no damage to the bowl. They work great!


Ya, there thick but very flexible. I love em! They make buckets out of it too.....its like tire rubber


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## ND Cooper (Mar 4, 2008)

Quality time with the birds IS IN ANY TEMP. JAY3!!!
Not just inside of the loft.
Sorry, but your way is not the only way..., or the best way for Everyone!


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## snowyloft (Nov 18, 2010)

Up in the mountains of New Mexico it is currently minus 20 F.  My water storage tank is frozen but the pump does bring water in the house I discovered to my great relief. I'm dreading going out to feed this morning. I hope the pigeons, chickens, ducks, goats, donkeys and mules are okay. I do have have two large stock tanks that have deicers in them so I can use that water but all the small bowls and buckets are going need some major thawing out. The house is warm even though my only heat is a wood stove. Looking like it's going to be a great new year.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

ND Cooper said:


> Quality time with the birds IS IN ANY TEMP. JAY3!!!
> Not just inside of the loft.
> Sorry, but your way is not the only way..., or the best way for Everyone!


What is your problem ND Cooper? I don't believe I said anything about my way being the only way, or the best way for everyone. I was taking about what I do, and it works for me. Are you having a bad day?


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## Thinkbig2015 (Feb 25, 2015)

*Heating water drinkers in cold weather*

So what is the general consensus of the best and safest way to heat the water? I like to keep my water in Glass Pyrex water trays, how do you suggest they keep from freezing?


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Didnt Alamo say he has NO electrical hook up? I had read years ago if you put enough sugar in the water it will only turn to slush but then I believe you will have diabetic birds !!!!


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## flight (Dec 29, 2011)

I use the candle warmers on my bullet water fountains and it was -9 yesterday and the water was not frozen so far it has worked well this winter.


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