# necrotic plug + seeds stuck in throat



## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

Hi all,

Just found a pij outside who at first appeared to be eating normally but looked a little strange. I picked him up and found seeds backed up in his mouth, but no obvious canker. 

I could feel a huge amount of seeds backed up in his throat, so I started manipulating them out--out came no fewer than 8 whole peanuts! My first thought was that the peanuts were causing the blockage, but on closer inspection, this bird also has a necrotic plug on the right side of his neck (above crop but just to right of his throat). 

Can't easily post a photo right now, but can anyone guess what this might be? Crop is empty, and I'm concerned that there isn't passage from the esophagus to the crop, but I don't know how to determine that exactly.

Thanks,
Jennifer


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Are you certain that the plug isn't a canker nodule, Jennifer? (Swab would confirm). I would treat with Spartrix just in case, to localise it before attempting anything else. Does liquid get through to the crop?

Cynthia


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## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

Cynthia,

I forgot to add to my initial post that the plug looks very similar to what canker looks like externally when it's drying up (although the drying-up canker I've seen is usually red or dark yellow/brown, not black as this one is).

I wonder if it's possible for canker that apparently severe to dry up on its own.

Can't tell if liquid is getting through yet (I'm at work and can't do much here except keep them in a dark box), but he did pass some very liquidy droppings since I found him.

Jennifer


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## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

Looks like seeds were all stuck ABOVE the plug. Some more seeds came out just now, along with lots of mucus. The plug extends internally a bit, and it feels like I can push it out if I try, but not sure if I should. I'm wondering if this plug could be a stuck, rotting peanut? (Feels bigger than a peanut, though, maybe about the size of two peanuts.)

I don't know if I should attempt tubing fluids or not.

Ideas?

Jennifer


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Try to work the plug out. Who knows, it could be from a BB or something like that. If you end up pulling it out and finding that it's a hole into the inside of the crop, then tube feed him through there a tiny bit at a time.

Pidgey


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## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

The plug came out and left a rather huge (to my mind, anyway) hole. There was some slimy junk in there, along with a few more seeds as well as a little blood.

I guess there must be passage through this hole down into the crop (since this is where seeds were stuck). I'm a little freaked out by the prospect of tubing him through there, but I guess I have no choice?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

The biggest question is what made the hole in the first place. Don't worry about those things--they always heal up just fine as long as whatever disease process that caused it if applicable gets stopped by meds. If food can leak out, then food can go back in. You probably need to make sure that there aren't anymore peanuts or large objects in the crop that can stop up the works.

Pidgey


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## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

With all the mucus in there, I'm thinking maybe it's canker that started to dry up and eject itself. (I'm nowhere near in the right mind to attempt to swab for trichomonads tonight.)

Is it worthwhile to try to tube the normal way or should I really tube through the hole?

He's got a lot of secretions--swallows every now and then. I was planning to give him some fluids tonight with a Spartrix in them. This afternoon he passed a liquid dropping or two, but nothing but urine + urates since then.

The other thing I'm trying to figure out is whether he needs to see the vet and how soon. I've got a surgical appt. tomorrow for one of my long-termers, so I could potentially bring this one along, but trying to carry two birds on public transport is going to be hell.

Thanks, Pidgey!

Jennifer


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Normally, I'd take a look inside with an otoscope to see what other surprises there might be. I can't remember if you had one of those or not. You can also take a small penlight and push it against the skin nearby and look for dark spots or areas. The flesh should all glow reddish orange like when you're shining a light through your hand. If there are pronounced dark blotches, it might mean more necrotic stuff. That technique is called "transillumination".

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

You might be able to tube from above, only to watch it come out that hole. Under the circumstances, it's not going to hurt to try. If you see it coming out that hole, then put your finger over it and hold it there for awhile to try and keep the food in. If you think you can tape it up, that might work, too. It'd need to be an aggressive tape to hold against the wetness, though.

Pidgey


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## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

Well, more and more seeds came out, both through the hole and out of the beak when expressed.

I just tried tubing from above and got about 4 ccs in before he started coughing and regurgitated. The hole it is only an inch or less deep, so trying to tube through there results in more leakage than from above. There's quite a lot of yellow, mucusy gunk that comes out too. I don't know how much fluid/Spartrix I managed to get in him, but I think I've stressed him enough for tonight.

Jennifer


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Jennifer,

Can you look on the other side of the crop and see if there is an exit wound? Have a look in my "reference album" of photos of BB wounds.

Nooti once mentioned that the danger of giving fluids to a pigeon with a hole in the crop is that the fluids can leak into the space between the crop and the outer skin..I think she said it would affect the air sacs? 

This is an interesting case study from Nooti:



> ...the injury was to her crop which had been torn open and the vet team had stitched it up.
> 
> It looked to be a good job at first glance but a few days later as Laura, (my vet) and I were examining her, the stitched wound just fell apart and the most awful rotting smell filled our nostrils.
> 
> ...


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## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

Cynthia,

I don't see any signs of an exit wound.

We have an appt. tomorrow at the vet. This morning, there were more seeds coming out of the hole (I don't know if they came up from the crop or down from the throat because they were small, so it's possible I didn't feel them).

I gave her some SQ fluids this morning and a bit of Exact, which she then regurgitated. A bit of it came out the hole also. I can't figure out why she's regurging unless there's a blockage I don't know about.

This afternoon, there are some droppings, so some of the Exact must have gotten in the crop. I'm concerned about whether I can maintain her on SQ fluids only for the next 24 hours; she's very light.

Jennifer


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## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

Just an update for those interested:

Two vet visits and $300 later, the crop fistula is now sutured and a barium x-ray has determined that there's some stricture where the fistula was. The crop and overlying skin had started to heal together in one mass, so the vet dissected the layers and sutured the crop and then the skin. Once we got home and I offered seeds he gobbled them up and assumed a cobra-like posture. The seeds were backed up from the fistula point upward. There's an outpouching of the esophagus, which we hope will heal in time.

Rx: Supplemental low-volume tube feeds, small amounts of small seeds (like millet), and Reglan PO, and see where we are in a couple of days.

Jennifer


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Jenny,

Thanks for the update! Pricey! I hope he makes a full recovery. I have only had one pigeon with a fistula, they are still a mystery to me.

Cynthia


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Wow! Jennifer! What an ordeal for you BOTH!!

I sure hope the pij makes a full recovery! I know you and the Vet have done what you can and the prognosis looks promising! Pijies are fast healers and we will all be pulling for this one!!

I know you will keep us updated!! Sure is a LOT for a pij to go through!! He/She couldn't have been in better hands!!

Sending healing thoughts, love and hugs

Shi


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## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

Jenfer, 

Glad to hear this pigeon is on the mend. Thanks for the update and let us know how she is doing in a couple of days.

Margaret


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Jenfer,

Really glad the problems seemed to have been identified and the bird is on a good recovery programme. I wish the bird, (and you), all the best and are looking forward to seeing his progress. Good luck.

Janet


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