# Sick tiny dove looking bird



## roulette (Aug 13, 2005)

I found a small bird that looks like a dove, but it is half the size. All its feathers are grown in so it is not a baby but it is young. All the feathers under the wing are full, and there are no pins around the beak or any down anywhere on it. 

It was throwing its head around and I opened up its mouth and it is hacking up whole seeds and it is pretty weak. The seeds were getting stuck in his throat. I gave it water and pulled out 3 seeds with tweezers that it was hacking up and it seems to be OK now but I do not know what sort of bird it is, nor what is wrong with it. I gave it water 2x already and it didn't want to drink but I keep trying to have it have some. The crop is empty but I do not want to feed it anything because I am worried it will hack up again.

It must eat seeds because that is what it was hacking up. Any idea what is wrong with it? And what kind of bird it may be? I have show pigeons so I know a fair bit about birds. Said before, it looks identical to a dove the gray/brown with black pumpkin seeds on the wing, the beak is like a dove or pigeon as well, not a fly eating species. I dont have a camera so that is the best I can do.

Thank you.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi roulette, 


Where are you?


My intuition suggests that this little Bird may have eaten poison or poison laced Seeds or Grains of some kind or been exposed to some sort of poison anyway, even if not from the food it ate per-se...so, for now, knowing nothing really but this guess, I am not sure what else to ask...

Have they made any poops? And if so can you describe them?

What kind of Seeds were they throwing up? Or, was it Corn possibly?

Young Doves can be quite small...

Anything else you can say about their movements, how they stand, their co-ordination and so on?

...find a way for now to keep them warm..."warm" as in the temperature of your wrist...no drafts, no air conditioning, no kids or other pets pestering them...

Let them be maybe, for the rest of the night...have some soft rumpled cloths on a heating pad, and the heating pad in a box where they can be on it or off of it as they like...you can fold the heating pad even to make room for them to not be on it...cover he box with a towell or something...


How did you find them, and were there ather Doves or Pigeons about?


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

pdpbison said:


> Let them be maybe, for the rest of the night...have some soft rumpled cloths on a heating pad, and the heating pad in a box where they can be on it or off of it as they like...*you can fold the heating pad even to make room for them to not be on it.*..cover he box with a towell or something...
> Phil
> Las Vegas


Hello Roulette & Welcome.

The heating pad is a good suggestion, if you suspect he is feeling a bit under the weather.
Just wanted to add, please do keep it on low. I don't know that I would fold it though. It's possible the heat may get more intense than planned. Just a thought.

Is there any possibility of posting a photo of your new found friend so we can maybe help you identify him?

Please keep us posted on how he is doing.

Cindy


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## roulette (Aug 13, 2005)

*Help!!! We are losing this one!!!!*

It is only one bird. It pooped once! So that I was a good thing and the poop is normal, a little liquid but mostly solid. 

It was walking woobly in the rain shaking its head when I was outside my house so I looked at it and it let me pick it up and kept flinging its head all over so I looked down its throat. 

The seeds were what looked like is in the pigeon food I give my birds. The 3 it hacked up were still completely whole, brown. It looked almost like they would be too big for it to swallow but I took the first out with the tweezers and then a few minutes later it was shaking its head again and I looked and there was another and so forth.

I can't imagine it being a dove though it could be. I thought it was and when I checked everything else to see if maybe it had bugs or anything on it it didn't makes sense because the feathers were so full and fluffy and the bird is about the size of 2 sparrows? I don't know very much about other birds.

I put the bird in a box with a few seeds and grits on the floor and made a nest with a wash cloth and put it in a dark quiet room. 

I just check on it. I dont think it will live. I opened its beak again and it looked like something bad was down his throat and I started to scarpe it out and it smells really bad and there is SO much he cant swallow and is getting a lot weaker. What do I do to make it comfortable to it can die in peace? It must have eaten poison because its crop is empty and all the food is trapped down the throat and I think I was hurting it if I open the beak too much. The seeds are smalled and more crowded in there. Please help!!!!!!


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Roulette,


Might be canker...did you see any little 'yellow' things in it's throat?

Was there any yellow liquid in the poop?

Again, where are you? ( like in what city and what country and so on...)


Keep them warm if you would please...as mentioned above...


The size of 'two sparrows' is a pretty good sized Dove for around here...


Phil
Las Vegas


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Perhaps a juvenile Mourning Dove. It sounds like you definitely have a health problem with this one .. canker perhaps. Do you have any medicine on hand? Spartrix or Metronidazole?

Keep the bird warm and quiet. Please don't scrape anymore at the growths as you may cause a major bleed. If you can keep the bird drinking, then that's a big help. Forget food for right now. 

Please keep us posted.

Terry


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## roulette (Aug 13, 2005)

*Picture*

Here is a picture of it next to my hand, I am a girl and I have small hands.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

roulette said:


> Here is a picture of it next to my hand, I am a girl and I have small hands.


It does look like a Mourning dove or maybe an Inca dove & it probably does have canker.
As Terry suggested, please do not try to remove it.

Just a suggestion: If you have any Spartrix, you can dissolve one in a tiny bit of water & suck it up with an eye dropper. Slowly put a couple drops at a time just inside the beak, allowing it to trickle down the throat. 

I would definitely get it on, or under, a heat source.

Cindy


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## roulette (Aug 13, 2005)

*poop*

No yellow in the poop. I wasn't scraping hard, more like just wiping the stuff out. I do not have medications no, I live in Valentine, Nebraska in the USA. 

I can't tell if there is yellow but the bird cant even swallow the water, it just comes right out. At first I think it was a sponge or something blocking the throat to the crop but then when I was wiping the throat with the tweezers (lighty so it doesn't hurt the bird or bother anything that might have grown there) I see it is seeds that look like poop, it was greenish and the seeds have a think clear coated liquid on them and VERY smally. 

My neighbor has Banamine? A anti-imflamatory pain killer which they said they use for their dog when before it died and it is for injecting. They said if the bird is in pain they can give it a shot to put it out if need but I want to know first what you think. I think the bird is suffering a lot and I trying to not cry for it because I need to help it.

It is still alive but looks very bad


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## roulette (Aug 13, 2005)

AZWhitefeather said:


> Just a suggestion: If you have any Spartrix, you can dissolve one in a tiny bit of water & suck it up with an eye dropper. Slowly put a couple drops at a time just inside the beak, allowing it to trickle down the throat.


What is Spartrix? Can I buy it at a drug store? We have one open until 12 so i could go get some, okay I will put a head pad under the box on low for it

Thank you for helping!


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

I'm so sorry you are faced with such a sad situation. You are doing the best you can. Do whatever you can to make the baby as comfortable as possible.

I will leave the injection issue to more experienced members, but for now I wouldn't recommend it.

Cindy


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## roulette (Aug 13, 2005)

I wont have him put it out until I know it is hopeless. It is still alive and 'fights' it will wrigles when I move it. I put it in a better box for the heat pad to work and put the heat pad under it to get it warm and it was squirming in my hand when I moved it so it isn't dying yet but it goes bad and good. I only put a night light on when I go in there to check it so it stays mostly dark.

HOW do I get water to it? I tried dipping the beak in like I did for my pigeon when I first got the pair and they didn't know how to drink from my waterer. and it doesn't drink and I opened the beak and poured a few drops and when it put its head down all the water just came out and dripped out. It keeps opening its beak and closing it


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

I forgot to mention, please line the heating pad with a small towel.

Cindy


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## roulette (Aug 13, 2005)

Yeah, the heating pad is under the box.. I am checking it every 15 minutes to make sure it is still a good temp for the bird... Thank you


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi roulette, 

...the Bird is standing, obviously, and is not said to be breathing through it's Beak...these of course are very good signs.


What the green condition is of these Seeds that keep emerging from an empty Crop is anyone's guess.

Maybe it ate some mouldy Seeds and now has a very 'sour' Crop...

You say there is a bad smell...when you open it's Beak...

Hmmm...

An abcess in the crop area, maybe..can you feel any 'lumps' anywhere in the front of the Bird roulette?

Any signs of the feathers on it's front being in any way disrupted in the way they lay?


I dunno...

If it was me, and I had this Bird, and all I know was it was throwing up Seeds that stank and had green goo on them, I would maybe double check for signs of Canker, and if seeing none, I would keep it warm, and if I had no medications available...

I would mix up some Raw Apple Cider Vinegar to the tune of one and a half or two tablespoons to a gallon of Water, and see what I could do to get it to drink that...have it tepid...at least that will change the ph to discourage progress of whatever is wrong in the Crop...and provide some hydration...

Can you tell roulette if the Bird seems emaciated? does it seem especially "light" weight for it's size?

Can you get an image of the poops up close?


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

roulette said:


> Yeah, the heating pad is under the box.. I am checking it every 15 minutes to make sure it is still a good temp for the bird... Thank you


Roulette,
The heating pad should be in the box (rather than under it) with a small towel over it & the bird on top of the towel. 

One way to tell if the bird is extremely thin is to check it's keel (breast) bone. It shouldn't be real sharp, but have some muscle on each side.

Cindy


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## roulette (Aug 13, 2005)

I returned the camera but tomorrow I will take a pictuer. It does feel VERY light yes, obviously has not eaten and the crop is totally empty. There is nothing, no lumps and it starts to try to hack if I touch it there too. One thing I noticed it that his jaw I guess, behind and below the lower beck before the throat and crop, it seems large and I would need to feel my pigeon to know if it is too big. 

It does smell very gross when I was getting the seeds of of the throat. I didnt look like there are white or yellow stuff there, it was all seeds I am pretty sure. I will buy some applecider and vinegar tomorrow morning asap. Can I buy the other stuff at a drug store? I have to order all my pigeon supplies online so it would take a few days to get the medicine if the place I order from has it.

The feathers are normal, there are 2 or 3 that are a little ruffles sideways but that may have been from me handling it. 

The breast bone is not sticking out TOO bad, like maybe today is the first day it is having problems eating so bad. 

There is not a way to fit the heating pad in the box but it is going though pretty well and keeping it like an incubator but not so hot. Just warm and it has the blanket over his back and around the chest too. I will le tyou know how it is in the morning. Gettng late here so i will be off ot bed

Thank you all again


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

roulette said:


> One thing I noticed it that his jaw I guess, behind and below the lower beck before the throat and crop, it seems large and I would need to feel my pigeon to know if it is too big.
> 
> It does smell very gross when I was getting the seeds of of the throat. I didnt look like there are white or yellow stuff there, it was all seeds I am pretty sure.
> 
> ...


Going on the theory the dove does have canker, it's quite possible you can't see it, given all the seeds that are stuck above it.
Do the seeds seem to be stuck together with mucus? 

What you want to buy is 'Apple cider vinegar', not apple cider & vinegar. You can find it in the grocery store with the salad dressings. If you can find the raw form that's great, if not, regular apple cider vinegar will do.

However you can get some heat to the little one is fine.

I hope you have a restful night & will be looking forward to an update in the morning. 
You've done a great job.  

Cindy


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi roulette, 


You mention -

[green]"Yeah, the heating pad is under the box.. I am checking it every 15 minutes to make sure it is still a good temp for the bird... Thank you"[/green]


Please arrange the Heating Pad "in" a box, in such a way, that the Bird may be ON it, or off of it, as they see fit for their own comfort. 

Likely a 'medium' setting would be fine, as even here in Las Vegas where it is warm, the ones I have tried on a 'low" setting have done almost nothing to warm a Bird who might wish to be warmed...and, have some soft cloths or one layer of rumpled Terry-Cloth Towell on the heating pad.

If you can not find a large enough Box, you can "fold" the heating pad into an "L" so that some of it is against the side or rear of the Box, and the rest is flat...in fact, this is generally a good idea TO do anyway.

MAKE SURE THE BIRD CAN BE ON OR OFF OF THE HEATING PAD AS IT SEES FIT please..

Is the Bird indoors? Is your home airconditioned? Make sure to cover the Box so the Bird is not subject to any drafts...


Till next...

Good luck...

Phil
Las Vegas


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

...just saw your further mentions...

This might be a soft abcess or it might be Canker...either can have a 'bad' smell, and neither started today or this week for that matter...

If you have anything for a local Vet, or any Vets who deal with commercial or other Poultry, you should call them and tell them you need some 'emtryl', 'metridazole', 'dimetridazole', or other anti-trichomoniasis sulfas or medicines and some idea of how much to administer.

If you can not find a local vet who has some, try and ask the same vets when you do talk with them if they know any 'Pigeon-People' in your area, and, likely, the Pigeon-People will have some.

Even if not for sure Canker, the medicines for treating Canker will do no harm as for whatever is going on...and what is going on does sound serious and needing to be identified and addressed for the Bird to get better.

Inspect the Bird's little butt if you would, to see if the Feathers around it's 'vent' are dirty or have any poop on them and or what color the poop is there if there is any stuck to the Feathers.

If it has stinky poo built up there, run the water to be 'warm' in a bathroom sink, and holding the Bird in a couple inches of the running water, gently soak and massage their vent area untill all the Feathers are clean...pat dry gently and put them back into their warm-box.

Typically, in my experience anyway, Doves with Canker will make chaulky yellow watery poops, and will have starved at least somewhat vefore I get them, and have yellow poop goo stuck onto their butt feathers.

Green mucous or other green goo in the Crops is not something associated with Canker so far as I know, but sounds like a serious a concern, certainly in it's own right.


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

How is your little patient doing this morning Roulette?

Cindy


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Hi folks,
I would like to explain why I *always* recommend setting a heating pad on low & why I *never* recommend folding one.
1) Not all heating pads are the same, e.g., some may produce a stronger heat than others.
2) If a bird is unable to move about without difficulty, the heating pad has been set higher than the low setting & the caregiver has been distracted, for whatever reason, the heat may become too intense, even in a short amount of time.
A low setting will pretty much assure the bird is getting adequate heat at a safe level.

3) Any time you have a fold of any kind in a heating element that particular spot becomes more intense,.e.g., having a wrinkle in an electric blanket will produce more heat in that area.
4) There is always a chance of the folded part against the side of the enclosure falling over on top of the bird. The likeness of this happening is slim, I realize, but the potential is still there.

My suggestion would be, if the enclosure is too small to properly hold a heating pad, without having to fold it, place the bird under a 'low wattage' lamp or fill an old sock 2/3 full of uncooked rice, microwave it for a few seconds, check to see that it isn't too warm & wrap it around the bird.

Cindy


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## roulette (Aug 13, 2005)

*Still alive doing OK*

Hi

The little on is still doing well considering he cant eat. I check him this morning and I had a better look down his throat now that he had the whole night to let whatever it was settle. There is nothing that i can see so it could probably be an abcess. 

I gave it a little applecider and vinegar like you suggested pdpbison, most of it seemed to come right out the mouth when it put its head down but I did it a few times to hope some will get inside his crop.

I think its problem is that he cant swallow anything for some reason. If it is an abcess can it heal?

The vet we have is going to call back, the office had no idea what a 'Canker' is and seemed to be rather disgusted when I asked for 'medication' for it. I said it was a pigeon or dove thing that birds can get and they will have the vet call whenever the vet gets to it I guess. 

No luck on a camrea this morning, neighbor was already gone to work when I went there to ask. The poops: White and green, a little watery but normal. They look like very normal poops. It made 1 more last night and now it is trying to fly inside the box or doing something making noise. 

It still opens its beak and basically seems like it is blowing out of the beak but it doesn't appear to be having a problem breaking through the nose, there was dirt crusted on the nostrils when I found it and I wiped that clean and it only opens the beak sometimes.

I don't have any a/c but there's a blanket over most of the top to hold the warmth in and I put one big towel in there so it can get away from the heat but there's no way to fit it inside the box withouth it being in a nest shape which I think will make it way too hot (like AZWhitefeather said) even on the lowest setting, it is a really big heating pad but it seems to be warm down below where the thinner towel is and then, how do you say the word... Not cold, but not really warm, comfortable? Or, room temprature? And it is vented about the big towel so the bird can have cooler air if it wants but not drafting in.

I have a more and less hope for it today. It seems a little stonger now but I am very worried about it being unable to swallow much. I will post when I hear from the vet and maybe they can take it although they dont seem to see birds or know much about them.

Thank you

The sock and rice, how often should I need to reheat it? Or do you think how I have the pad set up no would be okay?


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

The vet will most likely know canker as trichomoniasis or frounce. The drug needed is metronidazole (Flagyl) or carnidazole.

Terry


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## roulette (Aug 13, 2005)

*Vet*

The vet doesnt have anything nor did she know what a canker is. She said I'd be better off with it because I won't have to pay a vet bill and I will have more time to talk with you and try to help it.

So, that is that


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Roulette,

Where are you located? Perhaps we have a member in your area who can help by getting the needed medicine to you.

Terry


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

TAWhatley said:


> Roulette,
> 
> Where are you located? Perhaps we have a member in your area who can help by getting the needed medicine to you.
> 
> Terry


Hi Terry,
I notice Roulette isn't online at the present time, however I thought she had mentioned where she lived so I went back a few posts & found it.

*"I live in Valentine, Nebraska in the USA." * 

Cindy


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Cindy,

You mention - 



AZWhitefeather said:


> Hi folks,
> I would like to explain why I *always* recommend setting a heating pad on low & why I *never* recommend folding one.
> 
> 1) Not all heating pads are the same, e.g., some may produce a stronger heat than others.



Yes...not all are the same, and some of mine, on 'low' do not produce enough heat for injured or young Birds to avoid becomeing chilled, at least in their view of the matter.

Which is some of why I suggest one let the Bird be the judge of it, and to have the heating pad set on low if one likes but to in fact see if that IS enough for the Bird to keep warm enough...and to have a small Towell on t he heating pad, or, some soft rumples cloths on it.

Or, better yet, to have it on "medium" in such a way as for the ambulatory Bird to be able to situate themselves as they may wish to have the kind of warmth they wish to have.

I have never once ever said to 'just' put a heating pad in-a-box in a way where the Bird could roast...




> 2) If a bird is unable to move about without difficulty, the heating pad has been set higher than the low setting & the caregiver has been distracted, for whatever reason, the heat may become too intense, even in a short amount of time.
> A low setting will pretty much assure the bird is getting adequate heat at a safe level.


This has been my reasoning...implicit and explicit any time I ever mentioned how to use a Heating Pad...

Ambulatory Birds of course may elect for themselves more options if allowed to do so. I tend to suggest one let them "do so".

Non ambulatory Birds require much more care from us to see to it they have the right amount of warmth, not too much, and, not too little...

People write in to us, and we instruct them, to then find out they have a Baby Bird, in a heating pad set to 'low' with the Bird on rumpled clothes in a wooden bowl and the poor little Bird is maybe at 60 degrees under the air conditionind vent, in an open top box, while the heating pad is merrily on 'low'...

How much detail and explaination is enough, seems to vary each time...



> 3) Any time you have a fold of any kind in a heating element that particular spot becomes more intense,.e.g., having a wrinkle in an electric blanket will produce more heat in that area.


I have never noticed this, but then the "L" shape into which I have recommended 'folding' them is hardly a crisp, sharp 'fold', it is merely a lazy, or curved "L" in which the heating pad is mostly flat and some of it curves to be up on the side of the box or cage...

This is sometimes one way to allow the Bird to also be OFF of the heating pad, if the box or cage is not large enough.





> 4) There is always a chance of the folded part against the side of the enclosure falling over on top of the bird. The likeness of this happening is slim, I realize, but the potential is still there.


This would be impossible...

This makes no sense whatever.

Three or four inches of semi-springy heating pad layed to be against the side of a boxor cage, is not going to 'fall' inward, when it would be mildly wishing to return to being 'flat'...nor would one with half of itself flat anh half of it against the side tend to fall inward, especially if it had rumpled clothes on it, but anyway, as far as how every single aspect of all of this can go 'wrong' at times or if someone does not grasp the actual logic and reason of what theu are doing...there is only so much any of us can do...





> My suggestion would be, if the enclosure is too small to properly hold a heating pad, without having to fold it, place the bird under a 'low wattage' lamp or fill an old sock 2/3 full of uncooked rice, microwave it for a few seconds, check to see that it isn't too warm & wrap it around the bird.


Many potential problems here with that, includeing how with the 'rice' they have a chilled Bird in a few hours, inbto whom they will usually, obligeingly force a bunch of KT come morning...

Not good...


One can also have the heating pad set on "medium" and have HALF OF THE BOX sitting ON the heating pad, and see if that is enough warmth to get through the cardboard, or, similarly, if useing a small cage...

No matter how hard we may try or how much tedious and digressive detail we might supply, that sad truth is that some order of sense and judgement and "understanding" or critical reasoning powers, is required in these matters.

No rote instructiuon of short length, abstracted from our own practices' judgements, is any guarantee against bad or indifferent or confused or naive operatives or poor judgement or idiocy or lack of understanding what 'warm' means, or what 'wrist tenmperature' means.

One ends up having to write long dissertations if one is to be really 'thorough'.


And even then they do not read them with any degree of comprehension.

The short ones are too much for most people...one may ask three succinct questions and get one deflective 'answer'...




> Cindy



...sigh...

Love,

Phil
Las Vegas


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

AZWhitefeather said:


> Hi folks,
> I would like to explain why I *always* recommend setting a heating pad on low & why I *never* recommend folding one.
> 1) Not all heating pads are the same, e.g., some may produce a stronger heat than others.
> 2) If a bird is unable to move about without difficulty, the heating pad has been set higher than the low setting & the caregiver has been distracted, for whatever reason, the heat may become too intense, even in a short amount of time.
> ...


 Thanks Cindy for your first aid information. In hindsite, there will always be a medical student, second guessing your good, basic, first aid information. Hopefully, the information was not lost on a new person needing this information, by all the nitty gritty details, and aids for improvement ?, that follow.


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## roulette (Aug 13, 2005)

AZWhitefeather

I didnt see the questing re: the mucus. Yes, it looks like they are all crammed together with mucus and stuck inside the throat... Which was why I started to pull them out because I thought they were choking it.

Is there ANYTHING else I can get that'd work for canker? I supposed I can order some? 

Valentine, Nebraska usa yes. There's no pigeon people here and the vet didnt have any of that sort of medicine or know of any one in the area who will be having that. So, I need to either order it or find something at a drug store that can work.

Is canker the same thing as what people get inside their mouth?


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi roulette, 


You mention the 'vet' singular...

The suggestion, was that you call more than one Vet in r in the vicinity of Valentine, Nebraska...untill you obtained the information or contact info you needed.

I imagine there might be 4-H clubs who would know something about PPigeons, or Poultry...

I imagine there are University programmes in Llivestock and Poultry and so on.

I imagine there might be Feed Stores or stores catering to those who have farm Animals or Poultry...

The organism "Trichomona" which occasions Canker, is known in many forms of livestock, and regardless of by what name, medications are available in various forms and places which have anything to do with Livestock or Poultry.

If you spoke only to one Vet, especially with the infrmatin t hey gave you, you wasted a day that you needed to find the information and personell and medicines you need...by not bothering to call any others.

Pigeon people are everywhere, and if one calls enough Vets one will find that they have them for customers and could put you in touch with them.

'Blackhead' in Turkeys uses the same medications and is the same organism as 'Canker' is in Columbiformes...etc...

If you call enough Vets and seek an examination for that matter for a wild Bird you are wishing to care for who you think has an infection, you might find one who will see you and your Bird for free or for a reduced charge AND have got the medicine you needed all at the same time. 

Or while you are talking with them ask them about "who" in your area keeps Pigeons, are there ary per-se "Poultry" or Bird Vets they know of? Who seels Farm Medicine and Livestock supplies? And so on..."communicate" with them by asking pertenaint questions.

Most farm supply places carry packets of medicines for treating Trichmoniasis.

We do not know WHAT this Bird 'has' presently even though it "might" be Canker...it also might not be, and whatever it is, it will benifit if the right medicine is administered, and, if a determination can be made, as to just what it is that the Bird DOES have, so the right medicine might be elected.

If this is Canker, at this point, you have maybe as little as a few days, maybe more, but likely your Bird is not going to last long enough for "ordering' anything through the Mails, unless you order tomorrow and get it sent Next Day, for which costs, you could have just about sprung for a regular appointment with a real Vet and been done with it. Or at least make a real effort to find info and people in your area to get a diagnosis from or Canker meds from.

Since we are trying to help you form a useful opinin abut the possible illness your Bird has, questions like asking yu to see if any soiled Feathers are around it's Butt and to describe them if they are, are not just because we have nothing else to do or are asking you your sisters nail polish color this week.

What do the poops look like is also a "real" question.

Time, is often important in these things, and so also is the willingness to make more than one phone call if necessary.

Have you no 4-H Clubs?

No feed stores?

No livestock suppliers?

No farms or local farm supply places?

No one in any way in your area who in any way ever has anything to do with Poultry or Livestock?

Pigs, Horses, Turkeys, Ducks, people, etc, all get various versions of the Trichomoniasis ( NOT to be confused with Tricinosis...)

Did you ever check the Bird's butt to see if any soiled Feathers were around it's vent, where the poop comes out of?

Even the most rural areas tend to have regional Vets who make house calls for livestock and poultry...now, I am not saying to have them make a 'house call', but you could call them and ask them if they know anyone who keeps or races Pigeons, anyone who has Turkeys, where locally, from whom, or if they will sell you or give you...some medications for treating Trichomona infections in a Dove...etc etc...

Who knows, they might know what you are talking about...the Vet you did call sounds like an idiot who knows nothing and has no interest anyway but fr the brush off... if you do NOT communicate with more OF them and ask MULTIPLE questions, you are not likely to find much for help or supplies.

Anyway,

Good luck...

Phil
Las Vegas


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## roulette (Aug 13, 2005)

Well excuse me Mr Perfect (PDPBISON)

I live in butt freaked nowhere Nebraska. We have ONE vet and all the other towns are FAR AWAY.

I described the poop if you did not see it already there or are you too blind? I am asking for help, not for some knowitall to go off on my unperfectings that I didnt reply to evry little freaking questiong you have. And no, the butt is fine there's not any poop all over it.

I dont have all the time in the world to drive 2 hours to anothe rvet for the bird, I have a life and things to do that I cant be messing with a bird to flip my whole job up so excuse you for expecting this of me.

I also said I ORDER all of my pigeon supplies for the show pigeons I have because there is nothing here for them so before you start thinking it is a problem that I am creating why dont you read all of my flipping post before you blame me. I made several calls around to find this medicines and nobody has it.

You aparently have a problem with youself because I see you went off on Whitefeather's information on the heating pad. I understand you must know everything so how con someone even begin to say differently from what you think? You need theapists because you are a royal butt.

I do not want PDPBISONs help anymore because I am trying to freaking help the bird and PDPBISON has to try to make this more stressful make me feel like this is my fault.

Thank you everyone else for your help I'll have to deal with it myself or private message to you to ask questions because I dont need PDPBISON to be a yenta to me


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Ok, folks, let's chill out a bit here. All anyone wants is to be able to help this bird, and we're all doing the best we can and especially Roulette who is the one actually dealing with the bird. 

Let's quit the nitpicking of each other's posts and try to get something constructive done here, please.

Roulette .. could you please post your area code (402, I am assuming) and the three digit prefix of your phone #? I will search through the various lists of pigeon fanciers I have in the hope I can locate someone near to you who might have the medicine we need right now or someone who could look at the bird and at least tell us for sure what we are dealing with. This is a bit of a long shot, but it seems the quickest and best thing for getting the meds right now.

Roulette, do you have any meds on hand? I'm sorry if you have posted this information and I missed it as I did your location. If you do have anything on hand, please post what it is. I'm going to sign off for a few minutes and ask for some assistance on a couple of other lists. I'll be back shortly.

Terry


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Phil,
My post was not intended to incite an argument. I have no idea why you interpreted it as such. I would like to address a couple of your comments as I feel they are worthy of doing so. 

*"I have never once ever said to 'just' put a heating pad in-a-box in a way where the Bird could roast..."*
If you will review my post Phil, I never said you did. 

*"People write in to us, and we instruct them, to then find out they have a Baby Bird, in a heating pad set to 'low' with the Bird on rumpled clothes in a wooden bowl and the poor little Bird is maybe at 60 degrees under the air conditionind vent, in an open top box, while the heating pad is merrily on 'low'..."*
Increasing the heating pad temperature isn't going to resolve your example.
My reply to that would be: Please place the bird in a small animal carrier, box, etc., on a towel lined heating pad, set on low, in a dark, warm, quite area away from family & animal traffic. Cover three sides of the carrier, leaving the front open so the bird can be observed. 
This takes the bird out of the undesirable elements & enables the heating pad to remain on the low setting. 

*"Many potential problems here with that, includeing how with the 'rice' they have a chilled Bird in a few hours"*
Actually, Phil, the 'rice in the sock' suggestion is primarily for short term use.

*"One ends up having to write long dissertations if one is to be really 'thorough'."*
It *is* possible for one to be thorough *&* get their point across without having to write a long dissertation.

*"And even then they do not read them with any degree of comprehension."*
Possibly because they are too long? 
I'm sorry, but I'm at a loss as to how heating pad temperatures & rice in a sock led to the importance of writing long dissertations.

If you wish to discuss this further, please email me privately. There is no necessity to continue it in Roulette's thread.

Thank You,
Cindy


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Roulette,

Have you looked for any wildlife rehabbers in your area? Since you have a Mourning Dove, an avian rehabber should be more than willing to take in the bird and care for it. A rehabber would also be likely to have the meds.

Terry


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

roulette said:


> AZWhitefeather
> 
> I didnt see the questing re: the mucus. *Yes, it looks like they are all crammed together with mucus and stuck inside the throat*... Which was why I started to pull them out because I thought they were choking it.
> 
> ...


Hi Roulette,
In my experience, mucus is often times accompanied with severe cases of canker. 
The medications Terry suggested & Spartrix are the ones of choice.
It might not be a bad idea to have a supply of Spartrix on hand. I have had very good luck treating some of the ferals with it. If you can even get a dissoved one down the bird's throat with an eyedropper it begins to take affect fairly soon.

Hopefully Terry will be able to contact someone nearby.
In the meantime, continue to keep your little patient warm & comfy.  

Cindy


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Roulette and all,

I have a huge duck, goose, chicken, and rabbit rescue to do at the crack of dawn in the morning. I'll be watching here for responses for another hour at the outside .. after that tis time to load the truck and be ready to go at 6 AM. I won't be back until late afternoon on Sunday at the best.

Terry


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

TAWhatley said:


> Roulette and all,
> 
> I have a huge duck, goose, chicken, and rabbit rescue to do at the crack of dawn in the morning. I'll be watching here for responses for another hour at the outside .. after that tis time to load the truck and be ready to go at 6 AM. I won't be back until late afternoon on Sunday at the best.
> 
> Terry


Get you fanny to bed!  
Good luck on the rescue.

Cindy


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi roulette, 


Please excuse me, I was just trying to aid you in reviewing possible resources.

You had never mentioned that where you live was so limited, and often, people do not seem to do other than call 'one' Vet even when they are in metropolitan areas, unless reminded to do so or having various options spelled out for them.

Ambiguities, tangental or vague responses, confusion, misunderstandings, interpolations, reading something into what is written that may not be there, can easily characterize these mis-communications sometimes, or cause them.

Then attempts to clearify appear to be pedantic or condescending when they are not intended to be.

If in a situation such as this, someone asks you "where" you are, it is in the interest to see about connecting you to possible resources in your area.

If you already knew there were no potential resources of any kind, please do not be offended if for your having kept that secret, I had tried to guide you to the possible resources that might have been there, for all I knew. 

I have no way of knowing what 'Valentine, Nebraska' has or does not have going for it...other than what you have said.

Even the most rural parts of Nevada, seem to have Vets which even if a couple hundred miles away, can provide contact info for persons closer to one, and one finds out such thing for calling the Vets, whether one goes TO that Vet or not, talking with them can sometimes provide other contact info.


Most rural Vets have more contact info that City ones.


Anyway...

Good luck...

Best wishes, 

Phil
Las Vegas


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Cindy, 

You mention - 

Phil,
My post was not intended to incite an argument. I have no idea why you interpreted it as such. I would like to address a couple of your comments as I feel they are worthy of doing so. "


Please, do not project and put things on me that are not there.

I did not say or think that you were truing top start an argument, and I did nothing to suggest i did. I made a clearification to try and lessen some of the accrueing mis-communication about 'Heating Pads' and the ambiguities thst seem to be plagueing this ( and many ) threads.

You were rude to address the heating pad issue by talking over my head in contradiction without addressing me, and I was polite enough to try and do a point by point effort to clearify what I have said, and to do so while NOT talking over your head.

I was hopeing you might stop imputeing fault to it, when your mentions, like all of ours, are liable to ambiguities which a novice might not realize are there, and I was trying to l;essen the ambiguities inherent in all our mentions of 'Heating Pads' uses.

Our posts are often frought with potential ambiguities...

If I make an effort to be thorough or clear, then I get accused of argueing.

Slow down please...?


I was not 'argueing' with you.


C'mon here...!

Lol...

Lighten up!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

I'm not going back & forth with you on this issue Phil. You've made your reply, now please be done with it.

Thank You,
Cindy


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

And now, because of all this back-and-forthing and arguing amongst PIGEON TALK MEMBERS, roulette has not been back... And what of this little dove? Have we perhaps lost sight of the fact that roulette sought out the expertise of this forum to HELP a creature in need? And what happens? We end up in a pixxing match and drive away the very person who came to us to help the little bird? A fine job we've done, really. Let's all just take a deep breath, reflect a little bit and try to remember why we're all here in the first place. And, if we can do that, perhaps our own egos and opinions can take a back seat to, well, why we're all here in the first place: Our love and affection for God's creatures. While we're at it, let's ask for a little compassion and gentleness for another form of God's creatures: We human beings, for better or worse, stewards of our planet. Peace out.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Thank you Minimonkey for your level headed comments. Just to reassure you, Roulette has been reassured herself that she is indeed doing a fine job and we are offering her all the encouragement that we can.


She will be ok & hopefully the dove will be too


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Good Morning Roulette,
How is your little patient doing this morning?


Cindy


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

If everything else fails, and the dove is still hanging in there, maybe one of us members who has canker meds can overnight it to Roulette, some Baytril would be helpful also (in addition to canker meds) since we don't know exactly what is going on.
Fed Ex might have also a same day delivery.
All I have on hands right now is Spartrix, I am out of Baytril.

For now I would suggest to feed her one drop at a time a very thin formula, or baby cereal, or frozen thawed peas and corn ground up and mixed with water to keep her going for another day or two.

Reti


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Reti said:


> For now I would suggest to feed her one drop at a time a very thin formula, or baby cereal, or frozen thawed peas and corn ground up and mixed with water to keep her going for another day or two.
> Reti


Hi Reti,
Roulette & I exchanged a couple messages last evening & her concern was that the dove was not even consuming any liquid.
I suggested she continue with a few drops at a time of rehydrating solution placed just inside the beak & allow it to trickle down it's throat, however don't give any seeds at present as they just seems to get caught in the mucus. I'm hopeful that at least some of the fluid is getting through the obstruction.
It seems that anything solid gets caught up in that darn mucus.

Hopefully Roulette's update will be on a positive note & your suggestion of getting started with a thin formula will be in order.

Cindy


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

AZWhitefeather said:


> Hi Reti,
> 
> 
> Hopefully Roulette's update will be on a positive note & your suggestion of getting started with a thin formula will be in order.
> ...




I really hope we'll get a positive update, both have been through enough (Roulette and birdy)
Thanks, Cindy, I missed the post that not even liquids can be swallowed. 
Even more so, I think some meds are in order.
Roulette, let us know how things are going and I will try to send off to you some Spartrix first thing tomorrow morning.
You can private email me your address.

Reti


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Reti said:


> Even more so, I think some meds are in order


Agreed. 
I, too, am out of Baytril. I've been very lucky lately with regard to incoming casualities. Haven't had any. I hope it continues.  

Cindy


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## roulette (Aug 13, 2005)

*Bad news*

Well

The bird died last night-morning around 4am  It seemed to be hanging on well enough to get the medicines to it but it wasnt able to swallow much water because of the seeds stuck in its throat. I was watering through the night and when I went back to give it more it was dead 

Thank you all for helping and should I encounter anymore I will recommed to you this forum reguardless of such bickerings. I still order the canker meds in case I am to need it again.
Thank you


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Roulette,

I'm very sorry for the sad outcome. Thank you for trying your best to help this poor bird.

Linda


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I am so sorry.
Thank you for all you did for this little birdie.

Reti


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

roulette said:


> Well
> 
> The bird died last night-morning around 4am  It seemed to be hanging on well enough to get the medicines to it but it wasnt able to swallow much water because of the seeds stuck in its throat.


I am so sorry Roulette. 
As I mentioned in one of our conversations, be assured that little sweetie appreciated all your efforts.

Please don't be a stranger.  

Cindy


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Roulette, 

Such a shame that the dove gave up the fight when it was obviously struggling so hard to live. You really did your best and all that you could under the circumstances, there just wasn't enough time here

You're a very kind hearted person, thank you for that. Thanks for trying and best wishes with your own pigeons.

I hope you will stay in our forum and find it beneficial.

Take care,


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