# trap training with open loft



## ozarkbill (Aug 17, 2008)

I know this is different from what I've read but here is what has worked for me.About 3 pm
I open my sputnik type trap and let all pigeons out that want to. The older squeekers as well. The younger ones just usually stay in. 
Then I close the trap. When I go to evening feed I call them in and they all drop thru. Even the squeekers who were never trap trained but for weeks saw the birds dropping in. The outside squeekers are hesitant at first but only twice have I had to leave one outside, and only one time. I only feed at night so the outside bird is hungry and misses the flock. In my situation the birds are smart enough to see the older birds trapping and train themselves. I don't know how this would work with bob traps as they can't see into the loft as well as a drop trap.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

ozarkbill said:


> I know this is different from what I've read but here is what has worked for me.About 3 pm
> I open my sputnik type trap and let all pigeons out that want to. The older squeekers as well. The younger ones just usually stay in.
> Then I close the trap. When I go to evening feed I call them in and they all drop thru. Even the squeekers who were never trap trained but for weeks saw the birds dropping in. The outside squeekers are hesitant at first but only twice have I had to leave one outside, and only one time. I only feed at night so the outside bird is hungry and misses the flock. In my situation the birds are smart enough to see the older birds trapping and train themselves. I don't know how this would work with bob traps as they can't see into the loft as well as a drop trap.


 Works with bob traps also. BUT into todays world The cooper hawk is a killer And leaving the birds out open loft Is not a good idea. Around here the coopers have came back for the winter. And I see them everyday. Used to be different and I would run young bird threough the trap 2 to 3 times then Let them out on the landing board And it work GREAT. But like I said the hawks are bad this time of year here from Oct through march.. So becareful as the hawk will even get in your loft if it can


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## ozarkbill (Aug 17, 2008)

Yes it may be time to not let them outside fly. 2 Coopers or sharp-shined hawks were around today. I keep a 12 gauge around and scared them off. But I had let the birds out early, I usually wait until 3. I think most hawks have fed by then. but may have to move from 3-6:30 to 4-5 as the days get shorter. Do most of you just close lofts for the winter?


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## Rod Hultquist (Aug 23, 2009)

I close mine for the winter.


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## ozarkbill (Aug 17, 2008)

When you open in the spring do the birds remember how to go through trap?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

ozarkbill said:


> I know this is different from what I've read but here is what has worked for me.About 3 pm
> I open my sputnik type trap and let all pigeons out that want to. The older squeekers as well. The younger ones just usually stay in.
> Then I close the trap. When I go to evening feed I call them in and they all drop thru. Even the squeekers who were never trap trained but for weeks saw the birds dropping in. The outside squeekers are hesitant at first but only twice have I had to leave one outside, and only one time. I only feed at night so the outside bird is hungry and misses the flock. In my situation the birds are smart enough to see the older birds trapping and train themselves. I don't know how this would work with bob traps as they can't see into the loft as well as a drop trap.


That is all I have to do as well, once you have a nice flock training the youngs really does not need to be done. I no longer reduce feed either, I let them out in the afternoon and they go in to roost themselves, I fill the feeder for as much as they will eat in a days time. of course anyone doing racing does things differently usually because they do not do much open loft.


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## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

I have an open loft,there is no trap.But instead there are 2 small openings,through which the birds can enter and go out as they wish.Its open 24*7,365 days a year irrespective of weather or seasons.Pigeons are a hobby and i don't like them to be locked up.I keep homers and a few other native Indian breeds,i don't race them either.I have been doing this for the past few years,now the present generation of birds are smarter and more skilled to avoid birds of prey.The youngsters learn watching the older birds and they start flying out by 5-6 weeks.My loft being on the roof top avoids all kind of ground predators like cats and stuff.For people who actually race birds,open loft is not an option as they need to train them to dive straight into the trap...but if you are keeping pigeons ,just as a hobby then open loft is enjoyable


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

boneyrajan.k said:


> I have an open loft,there is no trap.But instead there are 2 small openings,through which the birds can enter and go out as they wish.Its open 24*7,365 days a year irrespective of weather or seasons.Pigeons are a hobby and i don't like them to be locked up.I keep homers and a few other native Indian breeds,i don't race them either.I have been doing this for the past few years,now the present generation of birds are smarter and more skilled to avoid birds of prey.The youngsters learn watching the older birds and they start flying out by 5-6 weeks.My loft being on the roof top avoids all kind of ground predators like cats and stuff.For people who actually race birds,open loft is not an option as they need to train them to dive straight into the trap...but if you are keeping pigeons ,just as a hobby then open loft is enjoyable


DO you have a BAD hawk problem. In most parts of the US today hawks move in certion times of the years And some places never leave. They Take your pigeons right and left. If a person does not regulate there flight. and release times. open loft is like a open meal ticket for hawks. DID not used to be that way. But the US GOVERMENT start a protected motion that led to a super strong return of several hawk species. And now they are back stronger then perhaps they were a 100 years ago. They will almost take a pigeon out of your hand almost.


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## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

re lee said:


> DO you have a BAD hawk problem. In most parts of the US today hawks move in certion times of the years And some places never leave. They Take your pigeons right and left. If a person does not regulate there flight. and release times. open loft is like a open meal ticket for hawks. DID not used to be that way. But the US GOVERMENT start a protected motion that led to a super strong return of several hawk species. And now they are back stronger then perhaps they were a 100 years ago. They will almost take a pigeon out of your hand almost.


Luckily for me,we don't have a big hawk problem,occasionally i see 1 or 2.Their numbers are very few here and they don't go after my pigeons.I hardly lose one or two birds per year..even with a open loft throughout the year.Here we don't have winter or snowfall,the major season here in my place is monsoon,but the birds are used to it.
If there are lot of hawks,then open loft will be a disaster for sure,especially if they see pigeons as a potential source of food.


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## pooch88 (Nov 17, 2013)

Guys:
I am wondering what the difference is between a drop trap & a bob trap? Second I am also wondering what you are referring to when you say train birds to use a trap. How do you train young birds (all I have) to use a trap?


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

Here`s my flying loft....I use Sputniks,because the birds enter allot faster,then with the old 
drop down "Army Traps",that they have to push the barbs....Alamo

PS:YB section on left,with extendtion,with extra flight cage,so more birds can take the sun etc.....Old birds have their avairy below the Sputnik.....Alamo


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## TimJ (Apr 24, 2008)

pooch88 said:


> Guys:
> I am wondering what the difference is between a drop trap & a bob trap? Second I am also wondering what you are referring to when you say train birds to use a trap. How do you train young birds (all I have) to use a trap?


This was the 2nd time I put my young birds in the cage outside my homemade belgium/drop trap. I just put the feed in the loft and shook the can to tell them it was feeding time and they learned fast.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JJrYPaK_kg

I got mine a little tight and the big yellow one has to squeeze through... but she makes it if food is involved. 

Tim


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## pooch88 (Nov 17, 2013)

Tim & Alamo:
Thank you for the video and explanation. 
Alamo, I am not sure I understand what a drop down “Army Trap” is, what are you referring to when you speak of push the barbs?
Tim in the video I see the birds dropping into the loft. How high are they off the floor and are there barbs (whatever they are) involved that I don’t see in the video?
I am new to this sport and, am a bit leery about letting my young birds loose not knowing how to retrieve them.


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## TimJ (Apr 24, 2008)

This place shows it better then what my video does. http://www.ashbyloft.com/belgium-drop-trap/

I might put a smaller pigeon breed in there someday so I used plywood slats instead of dowels but it is basically the same. Nothing to push through they just squeeze through and can't fly back out. 

This is a hutch style loft so they are only dropping to the floor about 3 feet below. They are so quick with getting their wings out to slow their landing that they barely make a thump when they go in.

I completely understand the uneasy feeling of letting them out. I just went through that a couple months ago. These are my first pigeons. I think it was about the 5th time they went through the trap it was from being outside free. They learn fast as long as food is involved.
I also let mine sit outside whenever they want to in an aviary. I guess they learn the area that way.

A couple things I learned, some the hard way.
First make sure they come running to eat when you call them to feed. If they are hungry when you first let them out and it is late in the day and they want to eat they won't go too far from the loft. Most likely as long as they are pretty young they won't even leave the roof of the loft. That is a good thing. 

Second make sure they aren't too old. I lost one on its first flight. I knew before hand that it was a little older. It just flew too strongly I believe and got too far out of sight. I had another spend a night outside because it was also strong but it came back and always traps now.

I wouldn't doubt you have hawks around this time of year and you should be careful trying to train young birds now. I'd wait and risk strong flyers or just breed these and start with young next spring.

Tim


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## pooch88 (Nov 17, 2013)

Ok, Tim:
Thanks that video shows what I wanted to know. The post with the video tells me that the dowels should be 4” apart, have you found that 4” is about right? 

All of the birds I have are larger birds from racing stock they on average about 4 to 8 ounces more than your average barn pigeon. I know they are not huge like some of the racing birds I have seen on this site but they are larger than your average barn pigeons. 

I am definitely hip to Cooper hawks here in the area. In fact I am a licensed Falconer and while trapping a Red Tail for hunting this fall I caught no less than 15 Cooper Hawks in the box trap I was using. I released all of them unharmed, but they are here during the cold weather in large numbers. 

All of my birds are still pretty young I only have one out of the 10 or so that I feel might be too old to release here at the loft. If I lose them I will be disappointed but definitely not heartbroken. 

Lastly, I am feeding my bird’s free choice at the moment. I have been afraid to cut back on the rations because of the cold weather we have been experiencing here lately. How often do you feed and at what rates do you feed so they will be hungry when it comes time to release them for flight? 

Again, I want to thank you and all the other folks who have been willing to lend me a hand here. I know of no other pigeon folks in my area to pester with my mundane questions. 
Dave


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## ozarkbill (Aug 17, 2008)

There is no magic size to spacing the dowels in the drop trap. Go with 4 1/2 if you need it. I have increased my feed to about 2 or so ounces. My winter feed is 1/2 16% layer pellets, 1/4 whole corn, 1/4 wild bird seed and I like the kind with milo listed first if I can get it. If I have it I throw in some whole black sunflower seeds also. Winter and corn go together for energy.
I do a lot of releases at a short distance and always with young birds with older. after a few at 1/2 to 2-3 miles, I go to 5 from all directions and then go to 15-25 or so. I always let the birds go from the carrier on there own and don't startle them. When an experienced bird flies they all go. If I am unsure of a bird I take them by themselves to 15-25 miles and see if they come back.


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