# What color is my pigeon ? (and some curiosity about genetics)



## Lilo57 (Sep 9, 2016)

Hello !

While the color of my pigeon is not really that important to me, I'm really curious about it, since I'm interested in genetics. So I wonder what color is my pet pigeon. Even if Cookie is young (3 months old), I wonder what you think about his color.
















I think he's a T-pattern check ash red (split blue), with baldhead. He seems to be really dark for an ash-red, but it's probably because he's split recessive red. I can't even see the "T" of it's pattern, he has no iridescence on his neck and no ashy grey on his head. 

When he was born, about half of his skin was black, especially it's legs that were totally black. Howerver, as you can see, his legs became red and his beak is mostly light colored (it was half black but it became a little lighter). So it can't be the dirty gene, isn't it ? But what can cause that ?

His father is a blue bar feral pigeon. His mother is a yellow South German Blasse that is probably an ash red T-pattern check.









He also has an older sister that is T-pattern check blue, also baldhead. However, she has some red in her feathers, especially on her head, that she didn't completely lose after molting. Is it because she is split recessive red ? When she was born, she also had half black skin and her beak what about half or 3/4 light colored. Like her brother, her legs became red, but her beak became totally dark, and her eyes became orange.

His sister when she was younger. Now she is darker.








I think the mother may have something that cause the skin of the legs to be darker at birth. I suppose that, either that something is hidden by epistasie or that something fades with time. I think it's not because of the father, since he already had babies with another hen, but the babies where all light skinned (unless magpie causes the skin to be light colored). Maybe it's possible to have dirty with a light beak (with genetics, you never know). I was really surprised to have babies like this, it never happened to me before ! 

Well, I think I said everything I know about my pigeons genetics... It may be usefull...

But the main questions are :
- Is Cookie a T-pattern check ash red ?
- Why did he have dark legs when he was younger ?
- Why is the tip of his sister's head and wings feathers red ? (if it's not because of recessive red)
- How can recessive red be expressed in heterozygous pigeons ? (is that's the case) It would not really be a recessive gene anymore... Or can other gene influence it and make it express slightly, even if a pigeon is heterozygous ?

Thank you for reading my awfully long message and sorry for my english


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Don't know anything about pigeon genetics but your pigeons are beautiful! I can't believe how many lovely types there are.


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## Lilo57 (Sep 9, 2016)

cwebster said:


> Don't know anything about pigeon genetics but your pigeons are beautiful! I can't believe how many lovely types there are.


Thank you ! After all, my pigeons are my greatest pride, they are my familly and I'm really proud of my kids (they also have awesome personalities) ! 

It's always surprising to see the diversity of pigeons. When I go outside, I can't help looking at pigeons and noticing that some of them have really impressive colors ! It's also funny to see the reaction of people that never saw fancy pigeons or never know they existed.


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## Chuck K (Jan 12, 2013)

Your bird is an ash read t-pattern. The reason he appears so dark is that he carries a bronze factor from his dam. Bronze on an ash red can usually be identified by a light band across the tail. He seems to only have a slight tail marking. He may or may not carry recessive red. I am not familiar with the dam's breed so I don't know if they carry recessive red but most good bronze expressions do have recessive red in the mix. The mating you have with these two parents is called a sex linked mating. All cocks will be ash reds, and all hens will be blues.

The dark feet at hatching are caused by a gene called dirty. Dirty is used in a lot of color breeds to enhance the depth of colors. It is probably one of the reasons this bird is a deep rich red. The white marking on the head is referred to as a baldhead if it covers the whole head. In rollers and tumblers the white marking like your bird would be referred to as a badge head. Your young cock bird also appears to have a crippled foot, and a be blind in the eye that is showing in the picture? The look to the eye may just be that it is bull from having white on the head but it appears to be cloudy. I have seen that condition when a bird has been over medicated with sulfa drugs. It will sometimes clear when the drugs are discontinued.

The young hen has the red lacing to the edge of her feathers that is typical for a bird carrying recessive red, but again may be the result of bronze. I am most familiar with kite bronze, and it will sometimes give a white lacing to the edge of the feathers especially in blacks. As you noted the lacing does disappear in most birds at the adult molt.


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## Lilo57 (Sep 9, 2016)

Thank you for your answer !



Chuck K said:


> The reason he appears so dark is that he carries a bronze factor from his dam. Bronze on an ash red can usually be identified by a light band across the tail.


I also thought about it, but I don't know a lot of things about bronze factors... Indeed, he has a light babd across his tail



Chuck K said:


> He may or may not carry recessive red. I am not familiar with the dam's breed so I don't know if they carry recessive red but most good bronze expressions do have recessive red in the mix.


I'm sure he carries recessive red, since the mother is recessive yellow. So he carries both recessive red and dilute.



Chuck K said:


> The white marking on the head is referred to as a baldhead if it covers the whole head. In rollers and tumblers the white marking like your bird would be referred to as a badge head.


Thank you, I didn't know 



Chuck K said:


> Your young cock bird also appears to have a crippled foot, and a be blind in the eye that is showing in the picture? The look to the eye may just be that it is bull from having white on the head but it appears to be cloudy.


Well, he fell out of the nest when he was 23 days old... The vet said he had a kind of dual dislocation or pseudo-broken leg. He had a splint for 3 weeks. His leg seemed a little better, but it was not totally fixed. While he can fly (after 2 months of learning), he can't walk properly, tht's why I prefered to keep him as an indoor pet.
Also, he's not blind, it's a luminosity problem of the picture. He's eyes are bull.




Chuck K said:


> The young hen has the red lacing to the edge of her feathers that is typical for a bird carrying recessive red, but again may be the result of bronze. I am most familiar with kite bronze, and it will sometimes give a white lacing to the edge of the feathers especially in blacks. As you noted the lacing does disappear in most birds at the adult molt.


I just took some pictures of her (she's 1 year old).


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