# Found injured pigeon which layed egg



## Crank (Apr 1, 2012)

Hi,
Yesterday (around 30 hrs back) i found a pigeon stuck on my buildings roof fence, crows and eagle were attacking the pigeon, so my mom rushed on roof and freed the pigeon, but the pigeon had thread tied on its legs in a really rough manner (it could nearly cut its one finger off), and the crows had injured it too, so i thought to keep it for 3 to four days until its all healed up (also applied betadine on its injury). But just 10 mins back the pigeon lay a egg in the cage it is. Now i was thinking to take the egg away from the bird cause the bird is injured and wont be able too take care of it anyways, but should i take away the egg right now or wait for a day or two so that the pigeon heals and i can free him?


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Keep her in for long enough for all wounds to heal completely, and until she is able to fly.

She may lay another egg if that was the first. Leave the egg a couple of days to see if she does lay, then remove the egg(s) OR alternatively, the eggs can be boiled and then returned to her to sit on.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Thanks for saving your pal.

I agree with this. But more importantly...that Pigeon was being attacked by crows, so it now has a bacterial infection which MUST get medicated in the next 48 hours...or the Pigeon will die because her system will be overrun with infection. Unlike mammals, birds cannot just 'fight off' an injury.

Given the condition you describe, the Pigeon will not "heal so you can free her" without your help.

Betadine is a good topical...but it will not be enough. Do you...or any neighbors, friends, family.... have any antibiotics...either human or pet grade ? Penicillin, Cephalexin, Ceclor, Amoxycillin (Augmentin), Ampicillin, Trimeth Sulpha, etc ? You need oral antibiotic. My recollection is that in india, some antibiotics are easier to buy than in other places.

Also...have you been able to remove all of the string from the feet ? This will require you gently wrap the Pigeon in a towel, expose the feet, rinse them off with water, and try to untangle the string. Having a toothpick or X-acto blade helps. It is likely the string has cut into the flesh and the skin has grown around it...so it might begin to bleed when you untangle the string. Do as much a syou can w/o making it a bloody mess. If you can get some bad areas, then just stop and come back to it to get the rest/more, in a couple of days. Wash the wounds, apply pressure to stop the bleeding, and let the Pigeon be.

But the antibiotics are crucial...both for the feet and the circulatory system of the Pigeon.

Where are you located, which town/city ?


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## Crank (Apr 1, 2012)

@John D cool, but while trying to clean her cage her egg got slightly squeezed, i had no idea that it was gona be like paper delicate... hope the bird dosnt notice.

@Jaye Damn thats bad, i dont have any antibiotic that she can drink, but i did put kiskin skin lotion on it, its a clobetasol propionate ofloxacin, miconazole nitrate and zinc sulphate lotion (its my dogs). And yea im sure i will be able to find some antibiotics for her from some pet store, but in morning cause it must be closed at this time. But i wont worry much about infection cause its been like 40 hrs now and she looked fine, and maybe the injury on her back was from fence and maybe no crow bite her (chances are low cause she was surrounded by crows). 
And about the leg, yea, i removed all the strings, damn it was a human work cause it was properly tied between her fingers and leg. And im from Mumbai.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Well...basically...the Pigeon needs antibiotic. Please try to get some. A bird will suppress symptoms because they are flock animals, and if they show symptoms they will get kicked out of the flock.
So they hide symptoms for as long as they can...then all of a sudden they appear quite ill...and by then...it is too late.

A Pigeon actually has 3 days to start antibiotic...not 2 days. I always say 2 so people will get oof their butts and realize how serious the situation is.

My point is...just because she 'looks all right' means nothing. The Pigeon shows injury...and it was attacked by crows AND has stringfoot injury. There is NO doubt there is an internal infection.

As I said before...an external topical cream or ointment or liquid will do nothing to stop an infection of the bloodstream, bone, or soft tissue.

Go to the store tom'w and get some oral antibiotic...some kind like I mentioned above.

I believe there might be another member on the Forum from Mumbai....I will go check.

Thanks for the quick reply !


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## Crank (Apr 1, 2012)

I got Augmentin Syrup DUO (Amoxycillin and Potassium Calavulanate Oral Suspension IP), now they have no instruction on how much to feed, so how much should i give it to a pigeon? I gave him 4 drops for now.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Hello. Excellent !!!! 

OK, this I am reading off of my Avian Vet's prescription for Clavamox (which is Agmentin, same stuff), for a Feral adult: 125mg/ml, dosed .45cc twice daily. 

This means an adult pigeon needs about 110-120 mg daily. Divided into 2 dosages, minimum 8 hours apart. So each dosage about 60 mg.

So, figure out what the suspension is that you have (it should be in mg/ml).

That is perfect antibiotic for this situation. You should give it for 7 days.


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## Crank (Apr 1, 2012)

Suspension is 3.3g / 30ml, and i googled that a drop weight 0.06g. Im not good in maths, can you please let me know how much drop should i give her each day? I guess 12 - 16 drops?


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

OK. So 3.3g/30ml is equal to about .1g/ml which is equal to 100mg/ml. So your suspension is 100mg/ml.

So, your Pigeon friend needs 100-120mg daily. So he needs a total of 1ml of the liquid daily, divided into 2 doses. So each dose should be about .5ml.

You have the dropper. Does the dropper say how many ml are in a full dropper ? (in ml or in cc....ml and cc are the same)

Is it a 1ml (1cc) dropper, a 5ml (5cc) dropper ?

If you don't know...and if it does not say so anywhere on the medicine...a 1ml dropper is about 7mm diameter by 60mm long. A 10ml dropper is about 15mm diameter by 50 or 60 mm long.

Let me know this and we can figure it out. In the meantime, I would be on the safe side and say 10 drops/day, divided into 2 doses. So 5 drops each dose.

*But *let's really figure this more exactly, as best we can...so let me know the answers to my questions above.


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## jondove (Nov 17, 2011)

You could just drop 0.5 ml of that in a small graduated syringe then use the syringe. You can count the number of drops when you do that, so you can use the dropper directly next time. 
But I would still use the syringe every time, to avoid any dosing mistakes.


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## Crank (Apr 1, 2012)

@Jaye Its was a 0.5 ml dropper, at first she was not opening her mouth so i had to try real hard to keep it open, but during second dose she didnt resisted much, maybe the antibiotic was good in taste ^-^

@Jondove didnt had a syringe so used a Measuring Bottle Cap to figure out the dropper's capacity. 

Other then that, she is looking healthy. Thanks allot everyone for your all help i really appreciate it


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

There you go...so keep up with .5ml dose, twice a day...minimum 8 hours apart on the dosages.

You are going in the right direction ! Thank you for your kindness...your Pigeon friend would have died quite horribly had you not intervened...and with the string foot...she already was having a very painful life to begin with.

....her mate will be quite happy when he gets her back in much better shape !!!!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Both these dosing instructions say 125 mg/kg.
kg equals 1000 grams. So a bird that weighs 1000 grams would get that much, divided into 2 doses every 12 hours. However, I really doubt that this bird weighs that much. To be that heavy, the bird would probably have to be a runt breed of pigeon, and they are huge.
We don't know what your bird weighs, but an adult feral can vary greatly in size, however are usually more like 250 to 350 grams. Would it be possible for you to get a weight on your bird?
If indeed, this is a 350 gram bird, than it should be getting about 23 mg every 12 hours. 
AMOXYCILLIN AND CLAVULANIC ACID (Synulox, Clavamox)

Dose - up to 50 mgs per kilo BID if injection or up to 125mgs per kilo (divided) TID (three times daily) orally- up to 3 weeks. Dose and dosing interval determined by infection site, severity and organism involved.
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f108/drug-chart-drawn-up-by-nooti-15947.html
_________________________________________________________________________

http://www.blueridgewildlife.org/Articles/Basic Stabilization of Wildlife.pdf

Antibiotic Dosages for Birds
Clavamox 125 mg/kg PO q 12 hours
Amoxi 100 mg/kg PO q 8 hours
Trimethoprim/Sulfamethoxazole 10-50 mg/kg PO q 24 hours
Baytril 10-20 mg/kg PO, SC, IM q12-24 hours (dilute if giving SQ or IM)


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Jay3 said:


> Both these dosing instructions say 125 mg/kg.


 ? ~ I don't quite understand what you are referring to (?)

....neither dosing instruction says anything about mg/kg. You have misread my posts.

If you look again, I am stating that the suspension I have always been prescribed is 125mg/ml Clavamox or Augmentin.

I will just repeat, I am reading off of a label of a prescription from my Avian vet, who has treated about 50 rescued Ferals I have brought in.
The dosing I suggested is based upon a professional veterinary prescription of some very accomplished Avian vets. This dosage was prescribed for an adult Feral. It is an appropriate Augmentin/Clavamox dosage.

(I am sure there are different formularies out there, and had someone else replied before me they perhaps would have given a slightly different dosage....but I can only go by my experience...and my docs have never failed their patients yet. I always base my dosage quotes from meds which have been professionally prescribed, particularly for Ferals).

Crank, the .5ml twice a day will do your Pigeon well. I suppose if you want, you can roll it back to .4ml twice a day. But I can't see any reason to push it more than that.
Keep it up for 7 full days, provide plenty of food and water....and as long as she is eating well, is alert and active, and pooping regularly she should be OK to release.

IF, for some reason...she shows signs of lethargy, sleepiness often, or fluffed up feathers often...OR she doesn't seem to be eating...THEN there may be something else going on which requires more attention.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

BTW, Crank...can we get a picture of your new friend ???

(go to "go advanced" button, click it, then on the next page click "attachments" button and upload the pic to this thread).


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Jaye said:


> ? ~ I don't quite understand what you are referring to (?)
> 
> ..*..neither dosing instruction says anything about mg/kg. You have misread my posts.*
> 
> ...



mg/kg is not the issue. What I'm concerned about is the bird getting a weight appropriate dose.
The info I provided were from this site, and from a wildlife sites formulary, who have prescribed for thousands of birds. Antibiotics should be dosed based on the weight of the bird. Do you happen to know the weight of the bird in question? Just trying to share what I felt to be important information.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

I agree w/ you completely...weight of the bird is a nice bit of info to have, if accurate. 
But, if not available...and in a situation where you better darn well get some meds into that Pigeon pronto...then you just aim for a middle average (you don't assume a Lilliputian weakling, nor do you assume an Olympic champion beefcake ), and that usually works out alright....no, better than alright. 
As most people here would agree, and as is mentioned quite often...there is a bit of wiggle room (i.e. flexibility while avoiding any danger) when dealing with most antibiotic doses.

Regarding mg/kg...I agree, it isn't the issue nor the subject, really. I was just clarifying that I had never mentioned that relationship in my previous replies...nor have I ever had my vets make mention of it. I just take the prescription bottle and follow the directions...and it works really well...

You have your sources which certainly seem trustworthy enough for you, and I respect that...and I have my sources which I know firsthand and repeatedly have proven to be rock-solid as well. 
I am neither questioning your sources, nor am I saying you are questioning mine. The example you gave via your referenced source is coming up with dosages which don't agree with my Avian Vets' history of prescribing this med. Not saying that to insist anything, one way or the other....just that the numbers don't jibe and I can only suggest what my Vets have proven to be effective and safe.
As I noted above, it isn't unusual to have differences in how one member would suggest dosing vs. another....


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## Crank (Apr 1, 2012)

She must be under 300 grams, and if ya both wana continue the discussion then it was Augmentin DUO Syrup by GlaxoSmithKline. The company sucks on putting info about its meds online, cause if you google then you will only find info about Augmentin DUO 400 suspension.

P.S. She completely broke her egg herself, maybe she is young like less then 6 months old. But anyways i replaced the egg with a tennis ball.


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## pigeon-lover0 (Apr 1, 2012)

Hi,

How big is the tennis ball. You could go online/catalog and you can buy pigeon sized fake eggs. The reason I'm saying this is because when she is focused on the egg(s) she might not have as much stress.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

A tennis ball won't work. Not even a golf ball is anywhere near pigeon egg size. At this point, I would just remove the egg and leave it at that. Not like she will be in a nesting mood at this point.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

pigeon-lover0 said:


> Hi,
> 
> How big is the tennis ball. You could go online/catalog and you can buy pigeon sized fake eggs. The reason I'm saying this is because when she is focused on the egg(s) she might not have as much stress.


she was'nt focused on the egg from the start, she was not nesting there with her mate, he just found the bird. so this egg could of been tossed from the get go. and Im going to assume it may of been her second egg or she only had one.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Yes, she is young....and that was probably the second egg. 
She may lay another, just be on the lookout for another. But like Jay said...with everything that has happened, she probably isn't in a particularly mothering sorta mood !!! 

It would seem a fair bet that...in her young life...the whole mating thang hasn't served her very well so far !!!

(Maybe she likes the tennis ball...it won't stand-in for an egg, but if she finds it interesting then maybe leave it (?) !!!)

If you are confident that her weight is in the 300g range ~ as opposed to the 400g range ~ then reduce the dosage to around .3ml per dose.

So that would be a total of .6ml daily. Do keep up with 2 doses for a full 7 days, though. 

She looks good ! How are the feet ? Are they bloody or inflamed or have they settled down and look like they are healing ? Can she walk around on them OK, or does she favor one or the other ? Can you post a photo of her feet ?

Does there seem to be any wing injury ? This will require you holding her, wrapped in a towel, and gently extending each wing to examine it top and bottom.

How is her curiousity and energy level ? Is she eating well ?


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## Crank (Apr 1, 2012)

Nah sorry, it was a table tennis ball, My bad. And it isnt bothering her at all. 
Yeah cool, i will give her .3 ml dose twice a day. 
Feet looks cool, she walks fine and also keeps standing for hours. 
I think her wing is little damaged but thats cause she tries to fly in the cage, it is a dogs cage so it is kinda big for a pigeon, but still ofc she cant fly in it. Nothing serious.
Yea sure i will upload a pic of its feet in an hour when i reach home.
She is eating and drinking fine, also i change her cage cloth daily, and her energy level is high, i can say that cause whenever me or a family member walks in front of her cage then she panics and starts running here and there, what a wuss.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

you might want to cover the cage and put it in a quiet area for her. it may help.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Crank...can you set up your house/apartment in such a way that you can let her out of the cage for a few minutes ? (This will allow you to see if in fact she can fly normally or not...because if she cannot fly well anymore, then releasing is not a good option).

Perhaps put her in a small room, curtains/shades drawn so she cannot see the sky, and see if she can fly, land, turn, etc. Usually, after a few minutes out...if you want to get her back in, you can end up cornering her someplace and gently grabbing. Also, by shutting off the lights so it is completely dark, uone can usually grab a Pigeon because they cannot see well in the dark and will stay in one place.

Even better, if you don't mind...you can leave her out for a few hours so she can get some relaxation time. She would likely just find a single place to land (possibly up high like a bookshelf or curtain rod) and then just observe things from there.

SW's suggestion is good....if you cover a couple of sides and half of the top of the cage, she will feel more secure, less exposed, and won't freak out everytime someone walks by.


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## Crank (Apr 1, 2012)

If i cover the cage then it will be really hot in there cause her cage in in hall and i dont have air conditioner in hall. Even though weather is pleasant but still that wont be a good idea. 
And if i leave it out then i wont be able to get it back in, but chill cause i saw it flying a little in the cage. Now i was wrong about the leg, her left leg is swelled, and one of the finger is turned kinda black or dark blue, cause as i told before, that finger was like 60% cut off. But the right leg is fine, and she still can walk on both legs, just not like before, but its not much bad. Sorry i couldn't take a pic cause when i reached home she was sitting, will post one in morning. And don't worry about her wings, they were not injured much, only her back was, will post a pic of her back injury too in morning.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

When ever I have to keep a pigeon in a cage for whatever reason, I always cover a couple of sides of the cage. It really does make them feel more secure, and fresh air can still pass through. The reason she is panicking, is because she views you as a predator. She's afraid when someone approaches her.
As Jaye mentioned, She would be easily caught if let out, if you darken the room, or do it at the end of the day, maybe an hour before the sun goes down and it gets dark. Pigeons can't see in the dark. You see where she is, turn out the light, go over and pick her up. They don't normally fly away in the dark, as they can't see where they are going. Very easy.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Crank...I read your thread on Monday and have not had another look until today. I noticed in the picture you posted of the pigeon, that her cere...which is above her beak, is a grey color. In real life, is it white rather than grey?


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## Crank (Apr 1, 2012)

No, it is white in color in real life, not sure why it showed grey in pic.
And my mom left the pigeon open in hall to see if it can fly or not, but it was just standing on the table for 3 hours on its right leg, and when my mom went to put it back in cage it flew out of the window. I know windows should had been closed, but i have 48 windows in hall from which one was left slightly open, and she straight aimed for that one. And tbh i never told my mom to do that, she did it by herself (i was sleeping), totally her fault. The good thing is that my mum had fed her the meds in morning. 

Here, a last image that i had:









And im leaving the windows open cause maybe it comes back..

Anyways you people are truly awesome, i have never seen ANYONE in my life who cares so much about birds. And my pigeon would had been dead already if Jaye had not told me about antibiotics. I truly appreciate everybody's help.

Peace


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Well......yes.....given a window is open in the vicinity of a Pigeon...they _do_ have that tendency to fly out. Darn buggers....I wonder why ?

Well....so we know she can fly...and she got 5 days of Augmentin, rather strong doses at that....

So, all in all.....she will very probably be OK, and likely has reunited with her sweetheart.
You did a great job (with the exception of the window, of course...but again, better it happened on day 5 instead of day 2).

I wouldn't expect her to return...I mean, I figure if you are concerned you can go out to the immediate vicinity and see if you see her, but as I said, she has probably returned home and back to her flock....

Now do not be surprised if you begin to cross paths with other Pigeons in need of help. Things sort of happen that way...almost as if the word gets out in the Feral world that there is a helpful human around !

Under the circumstances, you have given your Pigeon Friend a very great gift ! You have a good heart and the world needs more people like you.


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## Crank (Apr 1, 2012)

Thanks, i really thought i was gona get flamed for my mistake. 



Jaye said:


> Now do not be surprised if you begin to cross paths with other Pigeons in need of help. Things sort of happen that way...almost as if the word gets out in the Feral world that there is a helpful human around !
> 
> 
> > Omg thats so true.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

No, friend...you did a really good job, especially for a first-time rescue !!!!


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