# Scissor beak/pox pigeon



## pidge-girl (Jun 10, 2009)

I have a 4 month old pigeon named Taylor who had a severe case of pox at two weeks old that left her beak deformed. (similar to a scissor beak) I tube feed her 25ccs of Kaytee Exact QID. She is un-able to pick up seed on her own, although she tries. Does anyone have any suggestions or ideas that could help? I will post a picture of her soon. She is keeping a steady weight at 330 grams and the pox has cleared up for now. 

Also how gradual should I give seed? I hand fed her 20 seeds from my pigeon mix, ranging in size from milo to field peas and about an hour and a half after I fed her she threw up the seeds. My vet said it was dangerous to give seed and Exact at the same time, so I've just been giving the Exact for now. She is able to drink on her own and loves feeding time, she flies to me as soon as she sees me pick up her syringe!
I'm worried more pox may show up, my vet just removed a lesion from under her eye the size of a soy bean. I know pox isn't curable but if anyone can offer suggestions on what they have done for their birds with pox it would be very helpful. I love Taylor dearly, and want to do anything I can for her. She goes everywhere with me and LOVES attention. She's preening my eyelashes as I write this  
Thank you!!


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## jmaxpsi (Jul 31, 2009)

give her good heat. I put a heater and let the pox dry up. It takes about four weeks for it to clear. The pox will turn brown and black and look like a scab and then fall off. http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10370_12150_12220-26362--,00.html
I hope this will help.


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## pidge-girl (Jun 10, 2009)

Her pox is pretty much all gone for now, she only has two left on her legs/feet that are black and dry. Thank you though, its good to know that them falling off is normal!


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

A photo will help determine how bad the scissoring is. Our Piglet has a scissored beak, he was a squab with pox and canker when we found him. He is 6 years old now, his upper beak needs trimming occasionally (that can be done safely with a battery run nail file, it is so easy to cause the upper beak to bleed...the lower beak should not be trimmed.) and he eats from deep pots,

We also have a pigeon with no lower beak, he finds it easiest to eat by jumping into a bucket of food.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I had a dove with severely scissored beak and a pigeon with no lower part of the beak. They both were able to eat out of deep bowls. Give it a try.

Reti


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

i also don't think it's dangerous to feed exact and seeds at the same time unless she is really full, for the babies i raise they get exact and seeds all the time.
i would try the deep crock very full with seeds , if she is still regurgitating them there may be something else going with her, unless she is regurg for you because she thinks your her mate.
how about thawed frozen corn and peas in a deep crock? it may be easier for her to pick them up


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## plamenh (Aug 11, 2006)

Hi Pidge-girl,
Pox is not curable in a sense that you give supportive care and no medication. Once over, bird will recover soon and gain immunity for life. I don't know what and why your Vet will remove liaison under eye; as it will fall down once dry by itself. It is no good to force remove them unless a bird is unable to breath or feed.
As per seeds/formula feeding, I would suggest to feed formula in the morning and seeds in the afternoon. Place seeds in a deep dish so s/he can peck and play until starts eating alone.
When you post a picture I may be able to give advice on correction, but yes in most cases it is possible.


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## pidge-girl (Jun 10, 2009)

Thanks everyone for all the replies!! 



Feefo said:


> his upper beak needs trimming occasionally (that can be done safely with a battery run nail file, it is so easy to cause the upper beak to bleed...the lower beak should not be trimmed.)


We found out the hard way with trimming the lower beak... my vet in Texas before I came back home trimmed her beak and the bottom began to bleed so much that she had to cauterize it, but before she did poor little Taylor swallowed and aspirated on her own blood then had to be put on a low dose of TMS for a week because her breathing sounded so wet 
The problem is her upper beak is in the right placement (but has grown too long) and her lower beak grows sideways and is really soft. her tongue is sticking out all the time too but luckily it doesn't dry out, and I clean inside her beak after every feed. 

I had a pigeon years ago who had a slight scissored beak and i trimmed the top part every couple months and it worked great, but I need to get a picture of Taylor on here.. I tried the deep dish but she never dips her whole beak in.. she tries to go for one seed at a time and can never pick it up 

Thank you though, I will never let a vet trim her bottom beak again


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## pidge-girl (Jun 10, 2009)

altgirl35 said:


> i also don't think it's dangerous to feed exact and seeds at the same time unless she is really full, for the babies i raise they get exact and seeds all the time.
> i would try the deep crock very full with seeds , if she is still regurgitating them there may be something else going with her, unless she is regurg for you because she thinks your her mate.


She does think I'm her mate, partly because I spend so much time with her, and also because I have to keep her away from all other pigeons...and we preen each others faces haha

So I thought that too, but one time she threw up in her net cage during the night. The seeds were huge and puffy and soft enough to smear into a paste, but for some reason she still regurgitated them.. I wondered if it was because she was already 2 months old and that was the first time she had ever gotten seeds so her body didn't know what to do with them. 
And also I didn't mix any grit with the seeds i set in her beak, (her lower beak grows out sideways so its easy to set a seed at a time on it and she swallows it herself) is it ok to just set grit in her beak?? 

Thank you!


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## pidge-girl (Jun 10, 2009)

plamenh said:


> Hi Pidge-girl,
> Pox is not curable in a sense that you give supportive care and no medication. Once over, bird will recover soon and gain immunity for life. I don't know what and why your Vet will remove liaison under eye; as it will fall down once dry by itself. It is no good to force remove them unless a bird is unable to breath or feed.
> As per seeds/formula feeding, I would suggest to feed formula in the morning and seeds in the afternoon. Place seeds in a deep dish so s/he can peck and play until starts eating alone.
> When you post a picture I may be able to give advice on correction, but yes in most cases it is possible.


The pox that was below her eye kept getting bigger by the day and yellowish stuff started coming out of her ear and it smelt really sour and changed even the smell of her breath so i was worried it may have been growing thru to her throat and i didn't want to risk her suffocating because she has already been on medication for her breathing before and i thought i was gonna lose her then 

Also the lesion was right where i had to put my thumb when tubing her and she was really tender and squirmed around alot because it was hard to keep her still when i didn't want to put pressure on the lump. 
She has recovered well from it now and only needed a few sutures. 

I keep a deep dish in there with her at all times but she has almost lost interest in trying now.. But she LOVES feeding time more then anything and wiggles around just like a baby every time she sees the syringe and I wake up to her little begging coos every morning!

She's had a rough life for only 4 months old  
but thanks everyone! your input is appreciated!!!!
Taylor says thanks too!


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## pidge-girl (Jun 10, 2009)

Here are some pictures of Taylors beak. They are from a web cam but hopefully they help


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## plamenh (Aug 11, 2006)

Upper mandible is overgrown and lower is skew.
Check this link to get some idea of the procedure.
http://www.urbanwildlifesociety.org/WLR/Xbeak.html
Applying pressure on the lower mandible (rubber band) and using mixture of olive oil and lemon juice to soften and heal beak may help. Check with jour Vet this as he can make much better examination then me from this picture.


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## Mindy (Apr 2, 2009)

When I looked at this picture, I almost fell off my chair. I have a chicken that looks just like this. She eats out of the side of her mouth. She does have some trouble but she gets it sooner or later. One time she had a sore bump, a wart like by the side of her mouth and she couldn't eat, so I had to had feed her for several weeks but that cleared up and she is eating now. I hand fed her dog food and cat food, because it would have taken me all day to feed her chicken pellets. Plus chickens will eat anything. It does help to have a deep dish. I feel so bad that the vet didn't know NOT to cut the bottom beak. Poor girl. I mean I'm not a vet and even I know that. I have cut the top beak because it will keep growing and it started to curl under so I cut a little at a time and you can tell underneath where you should stop. Glad you haven't gave up on her and I'm sure you won't. Actually my hen is my oldest hen I have. I have had her 7, maybe 8 years. Don't get anymore eggs but thats okay. min


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## pidge-girl (Jun 10, 2009)

Mindy said:


> When I looked at this picture, I almost fell off my chair. I have a chicken that looks just like this. She eats out of the side of her mouth. She does have some trouble but she gets it sooner or later. One time she had a sore bump, a wart like by the side of her mouth and she couldn't eat, so I had to had feed her for several weeks but that cleared up and she is eating now. I hand fed her dog food and cat food, because it would have taken me all day to feed her chicken pellets. Plus chickens will eat anything. It does help to have a deep dish. I feel so bad that the vet didn't know NOT to cut the bottom beak. Poor girl. I mean I'm not a vet and even I know that. I have cut the top beak because it will keep growing and it started to curl under so I cut a little at a time and you can tell underneath where you should stop. Glad you haven't gave up on her and I'm sure you won't. Actually my hen is my oldest hen I have. I have had her 7, maybe 8 years. Don't get anymore eggs but thats okay. min


I tried the deep dish a lot, but her thing with that is she only aims for one particular seed at a time then tries forever just on that one. I've tried dipping her beak in it like I do when training squabs to drink water the first time, but she just shakes her head back then continues to go for the same seed. 
She spent her first 3 months at a wildlife center in Texas (where I was an intern at the time) and we tried some different methods but none seemed to work  
I just don't know if extended use of Exact is ok for them. 
Thank you for all you did for that chicken! While I was at the center last summer we got a hen in that had been bit by a snake and her entire face swelled up and her feathers came off her head and neck and her eyes swelled closed, I had to train her to peck the ground where I was tapping with my finger to know where food was because she couldn't see anything. She recovered fine, but its crazy these poor animals have to go thru so much. I'm just glad there's people like us out there for them 
And you're right, I'll never give up on Taylor <3 I love her


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

i'm glad there is people like us out there to! good job on taking care of her all this time.
i'm sure the exact is fine, i would keep offering food in deep crocks every day, hopefully sooner or later she will get it, you have a long road ahead of you if you have to hand feed her for her entire life.
you may have to give in to some tough love for her to figure out how to feed herself.
it may be worth a surgery if that beak can be improved, from an economical standpoint, considering how much your spending on exact plus time and independence is worth something.
you can also do some corn and pea popping to give her a bit of a variety of food


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## pidge-girl (Jun 10, 2009)

It's been no problem time-wise to take care of her because since I've had her I've either been working at the clinic she originally was brought to, so they let me take breaks from all the other animals i was caring for every time it was her feeding time, and I lived on property of the center and started work 6am everyday so I was always there with her, except when I would need to go rescue an animal away from the center, but there was vet staff there that could feed her if needed. And now I'm back home for the holidays, so I'm in a spare bedroom where she's able to be loose and I can spend most of the day with her.. it's just when real life begins again and I need to look for a new job (the one at the clinic was just a 6 month internship) I guess I'll need to use all this time I have with her now to really try and get her to figure it out. 
The only thing that worries me still is she regurgitates the seed if i hand feed it to her. even in small amounts


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## Mindy (Apr 2, 2009)

I would try to give her frozen peas or corn, thawed of course. It sounds like a great internship, to bad you can't do it for another 6 months or longer, it sounds like you really enjoy it. I will take a picture of my chicken tomorrow. Its unbelievable how alike they look. Mine will also focus on one corn or pellet but after about 50 tries she will go find another. I also bring her out oatmeal, or potatoes anything mushy so she can eat it with less trouble. It probably much easier with chickens because they will eat anything. They are little garbage disposals. Ask them if you can feed her some dog food or cat food, soaked in water first to make it a little soft and see if you can feed your little taylor some of that. I don't know for sure, thats why I want others to say yes or no. That way she can get more nutrients in her crop and it won't take as long because they are alittle bigger. BUt if seeds are making her sick, then I would stop that for a day or so and see what others have to say on it. I mean it can't be fun for her to throw up seeds. min


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## pidge-girl (Jun 10, 2009)

I haven't hand fed her seeds since I left Texas 2 weeks ago, there it was ok because there was a vet on call 24 hours a day and all free to me, but now that I'm back home the nearest vet that will see a pigeon is 3 towns away. 
Pigeons are seed eaters, so I don't think I want to give her dog or cat food because that may upset her tummy as well.. I will try the thawed peas and corn, just a few to see if she can keep them down. 
Haha I always love feeding my chickens! They really will eat just about anything.
Can't wait to see the picture of your hen!


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## shalimar (Nov 23, 2009)

*Scissor peak/pox pigeon*

Hi... sorry for the poor pigeon... but thank goodness you are taking good care of her. She looks like she is really a pretty pigeon... Best of luck...


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

i don't understand why seeds would make her sick, it's very strange.
what about pigeon pellets or even game or parrot pellets?? they may be easier for her to pick up


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## Mindy (Apr 2, 2009)

I feed my pigeons some egg laying chicken pellets or if you have the crumble kind I would try either or. Since you say you have chickens, I'm assuming you have them kind of pellets. My pigeons love them, and there are lots of people that feed them the chicken pellets. 


I know if someone find a baby pigeon sometimes they recommend soaked dog food or cat food. Can other please let her know if its okay or not okay, thank you. min


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I'm thinking that she may also have canker because of the missing feathers on her throat, the fact that she is throwing up seed, and it can be a secondary infection with pox. Maybe she should be treated for canker. Spartrix for 3-5 days, or Flagyl.


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## Mindy (Apr 2, 2009)

My chicken has those missing also, because they try so hard reaching in at there bowls and it just wears off. I know we are talking two different kinds of birds. But since you do have a vet on site 24/7 you could check out to see if it could be a canker. min


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The pigeon didn't get this from reaching into a bowl. The stress of the pox can easily bring up the trichomonad count, causing canker. She's also throwing up seeds. Keep in mind that you cannot always see canker in the throat. They can have it without that symptom.


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

and thankfully it's very easy to treat


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## pidge-girl (Jun 10, 2009)

I originally thought she may have another problem, but she does not have canker. 
She was treated with Spartrix on september 1st because I know Trich can be a secondary infection to pox. I also took her to the vet here in California 1 week ago and they did a skin scraping and other tests and it is for sure only pox that she has. They found nothing else wrong with her and I specifically asked if she had canker. 
I keep all her bedding, her crate and the areas in my room she likes very clean, with pillowcases covering the counters that I change out daily. Her water is Smart Water I buy at the store and refill twice a day in a clean dish. And I soak all her feeding tubes/syringes in chlorhexidine and dry them well before storing them for her next feed. 
I also clean the inside of her beak with a damp q-tip after each feed to be sure everything is as clean as possible. 
Since I just worked in a veterinary clinic for half a year i realized how important cleanliness is. 
So it's good news it's not canker  but thats why I am so confused on her regurgitating seeds. 

I know people recommend soaked dog/cat food. I just don't want to give it to her, not only because pigeons are seed eaters, but I've also done research into what gets put in those foods and I think it may make her sick as well.
I think the problem is just that her body is not used to seeds, she has been getting Exact since she was 2 weeks old and I was the first one ever to put a seed in her, so I know they are new to her. 
I love my little Taylor and would love to see her able to keep them down, I know getting a tube pushed down into your crop 4 times a day can't feel good. She doesn't squirm at all anymore because she knows it means food, but still. 
Thanks again everyone


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I'm sure you keep everything very clean, but that has nothing to do with the bird getting canker. And if it was one treatment, that wouldn't do anything. How long did you treat him? When did they check her poop? Canker can be brought on anytime because of the stress of having the pox. It is certain that Taylor has pox, but how can you be so certain that he doesn't have canker. I'd treat him for 5 days with spartrix. No bird is used to seed when they first start eating it, but they don't throw up the seed.


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## pidge-girl (Jun 10, 2009)

Jay3 said:


> I'm sure you keep everything very clean, but that has nothing to do with the bird getting canker. And if it was one treatment, that wouldn't do anything. How long did you treat him? When did they check her poop? Canker can be brought on anytime because of the stress of having the pox. It is certain that Taylor has pox, but how can you be so certain that he doesn't have canker. I'd treat him for 5 days with spartrix. No bird is used to seed when they first start eating it, but they don't throw up the seed.


I've had three fecals done in the past two months. And she also had a fecal done last august when she first came to the center at 2 weeks old. All came out negative. I understand trichomoniasis can occur anytime with the stress of having pox, but she is showing no signs, I know they can be carriers or have it without visible signs, but she has been checked daily by a veterinarian trained to work with doves and pigeons up until I left Texas, (her crate was in the vet clinic so they saw her everyday, I was in charge of her paperwork and giving her meds and feeding her but wasn't allowed to take her home so she stayed there) and now she has been to my vet here, had a fecal, skin scraping and thorough check up (they had to put her under for surgery, so they did a very thorough check inside her beak and throat as well) she was treated with spartrix 1 tab SID X4 in September and also with 0.1 ml PO SID 5X of metronidazole (100mg/ml) at the end of October. 
All her pox lesions have cleared up completely and all thats left of that is her deformed beak. 
She is very active, drinks fine, flies well, is feisty and pecks and wing smacks people she doesn't know, is excited every feeding and in all ways acts healthy and fine. 
There is nothing clinically wrong they can find that would suggest why she regurgitates seed. That's why I am asking on here to see if anyone has had experience with this problem before. Because it's not something medicine or another visit to the vet will help  
She does not get stressed at the clinic, she actually preens my vet, so it's not a problem to take her back, but I just don't think its an infection or disease causing this.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

pidge-girl said:


> I understand trichomoniasis can occur anytime with the stress of having pox, but she is showing no signs,


I don't mean to argue with you, I honestly don't, but the feathers not growing on the throat, and throwing up seeds are both symptoms of canker. So how can you say that Taylor is showing no signs of it? It doesn't have to be seen. 
Something is causing this, and it isn't just that her body isn't used to seed.


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

there must be an explanation to her vomiting, but it's strange that it is only seeds.
trich may not show in a fecal, yeast may not also.
i know when i get songbirds in, one of the things they do is shake food out of their mouths when they have thrush, usually after a round of antibiotics.
a throat culture sometimes won't show it either even though i know they have it.
trich can show up suddenly, and internally, i had a baby come in this summer who showed no symptoms for a week, once i put him in with the other pigeons, boom he had lesions.
any kind of changes and stress can bring it on, she's done some traveling?
i can't think of anything else that would make her vomit only seeds, have you tried the corn and pea popping yet?? did she keep those down??


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## pidge-girl (Jun 10, 2009)

Jay3 said:


> I don't mean to argue with you, I honestly don't, but the feathers not growing on the throat, and throwing up seeds are both symptoms of canker. So how can you say that Taylor is showing no signs of it? It doesn't have to be seen.
> Something is causing this, and it isn't just that her body isn't used to seed.


There is also a section of feathers not growing on her legs near her tummy, a small bit near her shoulders and above here cere. I think some of that is to do with being un-able to preen properly. 
I'm pretty sure the feathers under her chin that are missing could still be from when she was younger and the interns at the center were messy with her food and it suck to her feathers and may have come out from them cleaning her. 
What are you trying to tell me to do then? She's been to the vet, has had everything that can be checked, checked. she's been on 2 different canker meds, kept very clean, helped her thru the pox.
I know you can't always see symptoms of canker, believe me, I lost my nine year old white homer to canker and he never showed signs that i could tell, but i was only 15 at the time and he was my first pigeon I lost to something other then a predator. I've stayed awake at night to worried to sleep because I was scared Taylor may have trich. I know how canker is. I've worked with a vet at a center that cared for pigeons and we saw a lot of canker in the feral pigeons and we spent a lot of time with them and I know it's easy for them to get it. but I have done everything possible to prevent Taylor from getting it. I can't be 100% sure she does not have it, who knows she could get it tomorrow, but I do not think it is what's causing the throw up, because she was throwing up seed in late august as well, and in 3 months it seems it would have gotten worse or she would have died from it if that was the case. and she has been treated twice since the first time she threw up because we were thinking thats what was causing it. 
She does not throw up anything but seed. at all. never threw up exact or water. 
I know you don't want to argue, me either. I know you are wanting to help her. I guess I was a little defensive only becase I'm scared and it's something that I have been worried about for 4 months. 
Thank you for your input though. It's good to not be in denile of that in case she doe's get/have it.


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

i know your scared and you love her dearly, were just trying to brainstorm on what it could be.
did you try the corn and peas yet to see if she keeps them down???


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

If you have a vet maybe he could do an endoscopy. It sounds like there might be an obstruction somewhere which doesn't let seeds through.
Also, when I worked in the clinic I have seen a lot of crop fungal infections. Was she ever treated for yeast?

Reti


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## pidge-girl (Jun 10, 2009)

I live out in the country and haven't had the chance to get to town to go to the store, but it's a good idea and as soon as I can I will. Thank you


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## pidge-girl (Jun 10, 2009)

Reti said:


> If you have a vet maybe he could do an endoscopy. It sounds like there might be an obstruction somewhere which doesn't let seeds through.
> Also, when I worked in the clinic I have seen a lot of crop fungal infections. Was she ever treated for yeast?
> 
> Reti


I do not have the list from the vet with me right now, but I do know they looked for any problems in the crop. They did a lot of tests, blood, fecal, mouth swab and skin scraping from inside her mouth and nothing wrong showed up. They said besides her beak deformity she is the healthiest pigeon they have seen.

That's why I am so confused. maybe she just doesn't like seeds! just kidding.

She never throws them up right away, it's always at least a few hours later, once they are soft and half digested looking. 

Her feces have always looked good. a little watery when she learned to drink on her own, but it's normal again, she has no worms and it's a good color. She does poop really often but only because the Exact gets digested so quickly. 

She has no feather mites, her eyes are clear and she is always happy, normal sleeping habits, holding a good weight, breathing is normal and her pox has cleared up and new healthy skin grew on her feet where the lesions fell off.

Holding seeds down seems to be her only problem now, I don't mind tubing her, but I want to know why she does this in case there is something I can do.
maybe just give one seed a day, then two, then three and see how that goes.. I'm just scared because I hate seeing her throw up


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## Mindy (Apr 2, 2009)

Pidge-girl, I think your doing a great job. You really know your stuff and seem very knowledgeable with pigeons. I do know the exact formula does make the feathers crusty and then they fall off. Every bird that I have given the formula to has done that. You don't have to have frozen peas or corn, you can use a can corn or peas. I'm sure with your persistence that you will find whatever is wrong with little taylor. I'm sure know one hear wants to argue with you, they just want to help you like you want to help little taylor. Maybe you should ask the vet if it is okay to treat for canker even if she doesn't have one since sometimes its can't be seen. But you really know a lot more than me, that is for sure. She is great hands with you being so caring. min


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

only thing i would caution about is the salt in the canned kind, would be okay once in a while but not an everyday diet


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## Mindy (Apr 2, 2009)

I never thought of that, thanks for pointing that out. Your so smart and always thinking. Your right, but in a pinch it probably would be okay. min


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes. They use salt in canned peas and corn. That isn't really good for Taylor.
I know how upset you are, and how much you care about your bird. Wish you could find out what is causing this. I believe yeast can do that too. The vomiting, I mean.


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## pidge-girl (Jun 10, 2009)

Mindy said:


> Maybe you should ask the vet if it is okay to treat for canker even if she doesn't have one since sometimes its can't be seen.


I have treated her twice already. I don't want to keep her on meds forever.. she is only 4 months old and has had SO many problems  and has been on so many meds.
But I'm here for her and willing to take as much time or money that it takes to make her better  

Does anyone know of a vet that will work on pigeons in the united states that would be able to re-align her beak? 
Does any one have experience with Golden Valley Pet and Pigeon clinic in Oklahoma? They were recommended to me but I'd like to do more research before I decide where to take her.


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## Mindy (Apr 2, 2009)

Your Right Pidgie-girl, you know that bird probably better than anyone. And you definitely know more about medicine and everything that a pigeon needs. I should have reread your post and saw that you mentioned that already. Sorry. When you were telling everyone what the pigeon was going through I was reading it so fast because most of it is alittle greek to me. I don't know about religning the beak. Tomorrow first thing I will take a picture of my chicken, you won't believe how much alike they are. I check mine everynight her crop and feel it to see if she has food in it and tonight it was full. Most nights it is full, but tonight it was really full. I'm sure your going to do whatever it takes for taylor to live a happy life. She is very lucky to have you. min


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Dr. Harris here in Miami, Fl would be able to realign her beak, but I think that is a bit too far for travel.

Have you tried Reglan for the vomiting? It has worked for every pij I had with vomiting.

Reti


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## Mindy (Apr 2, 2009)

This is the chicken I was talking about. Looking at the picture she only eats on the right side and the tray has to be bolted to the wall at about 4" off the ground and then she uses the edge of the tray and traps and then she can get it. I'm amazed everyday watching her, wondering how she does it because her neck is all turned. But if she couldn't eat like the time when she had a big blister like bump and you could tell it was sore, I hand fed her until it went away. 
I'm glad you taking care of your pigeon, I hope someone can help you with her beak, if not I'm sure you're like me and you would just hand feed her. Please keep us updated with little taylor. min


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

did she have seeds before she left TX when she was with the vets? does she throw up the hand rearing formula?...I would stick with what works for her, perhaps this one will have to be hand fed all her life with formula. quick changes can cause upset, so I would stick with what works...... Im sure you already know, but nothing should be add to the crop if the last feeding is still in there, check the crop if it is not doing it's job then go from there.


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## pidge-girl (Jun 10, 2009)

Mindy said:


> This is the chicken I was talking about.


Oh my god she DOES look like Taylor!!!  
So cute! I'm glad you found something that works for her


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## pidge-girl (Jun 10, 2009)

spirit wings said:


> did she have seeds before she left TX when she was with the vets? does she throw up the hand rearing formula?...I would stick with what works for her, perhaps this one will have to be hand fed all her life with formula. quick changes can cause upset, so I would stick with what works...... Im sure you already know, but nothing should be add to the crop if the last feeding is still in there, check the crop if it is not doing it's job then go from there.


Yes I gave her seeds only a few times. Each time I fed her 25cc's of Exact at 6am, then at 12 noon (once her crop was empty) I would hand feed 15 or so seeds-a few different types- and she would take a sip of water and seem fine, but when I would come back for her 4pm feed, there would be at least half, or more, of the seeds I fed her, thrown up and puffy and soft. She otherwise seemed fine and acted normal. 
I was busy bottle feeding raccoons and squirrels in the other room so I was unable to watch her between those times. So at her 4pm I would tube exact again because her crop would be empty. 
She has NEVER thrown up formula. 
At the time she was on TMS for wet breathing after she aspirated on blood so I thought she may have have thrown up them because of the medicine, but it still wouldn't explain why it is just the seed. 
I might try to feed her some grit and millet seeds later today to see if she can keep small seeds down. 
But if not I don't mind tubing her formula. I love my little Taylor and love to see her with a plump crop!


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## Mindy (Apr 2, 2009)

Little Taylor is alittle more of a severe case than my chickens. Sorry for the pictures, it was hard trying to hold the chicken and then take a picture, most were blurry. My chicken had just had her top beak trimmed so it wasn't as bad as it can be. So glad you are willing to do anything for your taylor. It is time comsuming hand feeding any bird but at least you know how to tube feed. I wouldn't even know where to begin. Where does the tube go. lol just kidding. min


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## pidge-girl (Jun 10, 2009)

Mindy said:


> It is time comsuming hand feeding any bird but at least you know how to tube feed. I wouldn't even know where to begin. Where does the tube go. lol just kidding. min


Haha tubing can be difficult sometimes.. depending on the type of bird.
Taylor is easy cause her beak is already open all the time so I don't need to hold it open to feed! haha 
This picture always looks silly to me. but it's cute 
I normally use the rubber tubing but it's easier to keep the steel type clean, so it's the kind I use for Taylor, plus she is used to it and gets excited every time she sees it


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## Mindy (Apr 2, 2009)

Thanks for the picture, I would be so afraid to kill the bird by drowning it. Hopefully I won't have to do it. If I do, I will be looking up this thread again. Your right it is easy opening the beak because the mouth doesn't ever shut. Same with my hen. I think I'll name my bird Swift. So now we have Taylor, Swift the two birds with scissor beaks.  min


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## pidge-girl (Jun 10, 2009)

Haha that would be amazing!! That is who Taylor is named after so it's perfect! 
I wonder what Taylor Swift would think of our little scissor beak birds? haha 
If you do want to learn how to tube pigeons, the best way is to go to your local wildlife rehabber and watch them do it. Or volunteer and do it yourself  That's how I learned. 
It's a good skill to have, but it is easy to put the tube down the wrong spot at first, I just always go down the right side of her throat, never the middle.


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