# Could I be contributing to an epidemic?



## Ferallife (Apr 26, 2020)

I feed city pigeons and put trays of water. I go several times a day and change the water. There aren’t many clean sources of water in the urban area. There’s a cemetery opposite and they drink the sprinkler water but it’s not turned on everyday. Also, it’s heavily tree dense so there are opportunistic hawks there. Recently, many pigeons are falling ill and dying once I get them home. It’s hard to pinpoint what’s going on. Besides me, there are occasional feeders too. Please help me decide if I should leave out the water or not.


----------



## John B (Sep 27, 2012)

*Water for pidges*

If you have any suspicions that the water is the source of some spreading of a disease, try putting some copper sulfate in their water. It can be purchased at a feed and seed store, farm supply, or even at a pet shop. Personally, I feel something else is going on. There will be others weighing in on your situation that will offer you more help than I can offer.

Where are you located?
Is it possible that the birds are being poisoned?
Please describe any symptoms and observations of the dying birds?

Good luck and thanks for taking care of these little souls


----------



## Ferallife (Apr 26, 2020)

Thank you John. I don’t believe there’s any sign of poisoning as I go there several times a day to feed them and put fresh water. I have been putting water with garlic in the morning but out of laziness, haven’t been doing so in the noon and evening. There has always been some brown whitish powder in the bushes which I assumed was something else because it didn’t seem to have an effect. Some peck on that. 
One pigeon has acute canker and the others had no sign of canker in the mouth. I gave the ones that died and two I captured today a tablet of carnidazole before sunset and when hours prior to that, amoxicillin. Their breast feels fluidly as though their muscles have dissolved. 

I notice them when they’re eating slowly, standing alone in a corner, preferring to run instead of flying and when they fly, it’s low altitude and a short distance. At home in the box, They stand and as they get weaker, fall over forwards. They are also vomiting at home or have diarrhea. No solid poop. Lots of fluid released. 
I feel terrible but I won’t be putting water tomorrow. I don’t know where they will find a safe place for clean water but I’m thinking I don’t want the disease to spread if it’s a disease.
EDIT: I live in Northern California, SF Bay Area and I think the sale of copper sulfate is banned here unless I buy online and it will take several days to reach me.


----------



## Ferallife (Apr 26, 2020)

Both the pigeons died overnight. Have no idea what’s happening. Called one nearby wildlife center. They said they could take in living birds but don’t have the resources to do necropsies. US fish and wildlife consider pigeons a domesticated bird so they won’t do anything. 

I was told there have been cases of West Nile virus in birds where I live. I haven’t seen mosquitos around pigeons but many have those pigeon flies on them.


----------



## Ferallife (Apr 26, 2020)

2 more sick pigeons but they were able to evade my capture. They are waiting for hours where I put water but I just don’t want the disease to spread. I have bleach at home but don’t want to use it.


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

I think you should continue to put down water for them. If possible, change it once daily. Twice daily would be better. Disinfect the waterbowls with jik every time. Put apple cider vinegar in the drinking water to boost them. At least they will be getting clean water. Are the waterbowls out in the open? Is there no vetenary research centre where you can send the bodies?


----------



## Ferallife (Apr 26, 2020)

What is JIK?I haven’t been putting water for 2 days now. Seeing the pigeons search for water where I used to leave it breaks my heart. When I saw the sick gray one drinking water, it just struck me that the water could be causing it. 150 plus pigeons from all around come to this area and all share it. The wildlife center lady told me communal food and water bowls contribute heavily to disease. I used to change the water many times but especially in the hot summer months, they’d love to bathe and poop in it.
I used to put water in disposable foam trays, change them everyday or twice a day. I would put new water early in the morning, change it a few hours later. Change it twice or thrice at noon. By evening, most pigeons fly away. I think a stray dog and some cats come at night. Next morning, throw those trays away and put new ones with fresh water.

for the past two days, I been mixing teaspoon of cinnamon, pinches of ground oregano, vitamin c powder, concentrated garlic water and for two days 1000mg, crushed Spartrix tablets, around 4-5 in 8-10 kilos of food and shake it up. 
There are no avian vets in my area. One place is many miles away and when I called them regarding the park deaths 2 months ago, I was lectured to that people with their own pets can’t get appointment. That plus I’m spending a lot on bird seed and medicine. Its not financially and logistically feasible right now. The best I can do is ask people like you the probable causes by listing symptoms - lethargy, lack of hunger, sitting alone, highly infectious, high volume of fluid released in shelter box, emaciation and when I get them home, death within a few hours to a day or day and a half.


----------



## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

There are just so many diseases out there that it's really impossible to make a diagnosis this way. If you change the water regularly, then I doubt you are contributing to spreading the disease. Is there no way that someone else can be putting nasty stuff in the drinking water when you leave? People can really be nasty.

Jik is a household cleaner. I know some people give this to their pigeons on a regular basis. It also kills all the good gut bacteria just like antibiotics. So one should always follow up with probiotics afterwards. I won't recommend you use this, I think it will be more harmfull to the pigeons in the long run. It is ok to use jik for disinfecting water dishes, but you are using new containers every time so there's no need for that.

Rather stick to natural products to boost their immunity: apple cider vinegar, garlic, cinnamon and turmeric. 

This must be really overwhelming and frustrating for you, doing this on your own. But remember, by removing the sick pigeons you are helping to limit the spread of the disease. So in fact, you are saving a lot of pigeons out there that otherwise would also have become sick.


----------

