# need opinion quick



## Steelers Army (Mar 3, 2006)

3 weeks old babies 1 is not walking yet, parents still feeding, i try moving the legs gently seems nothing wrong with it but s/he should be standing and walking around a bit at this age, not sure what is wrong, no injuries or anything, any opinions will help me figuring out whats wrong, I called some vet but none of them can tell me unless I have to pay $95 for inital check-up, other vet say they dont take outside birds only from the zoo and if theres findings cost me more for med., any1 knows whats wrong with this bird?

Thanks

Sorry I meant to say weeks not months, I apologize , very confused and needs to get some strong opinions as quick as possible


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

You wouldn't normally call a three-month-old a "baby" and the parents wouldn't normally have anything to do with one that old, either. Are you sure you don't mean three weeks old?

Pidgey


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## alvin (May 10, 2006)

Is it smaller? lighter? same feather development? - Need more info.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Steelers Army said:


> 3 weeks old babies 1 is not walking yet, parents still feeding, i try moving the legs gently seems nothing wrong with it but s/he should be standing and walking around a bit at this age, not sure what is wrong, no injuries or anything, any opinions will help me figuring out whats wrong, I called some vet but none of them can tell me unless I have to pay $95 for inital check-up, other vet say they dont take outside birds only from the zoo and if theres findings cost me more for med., any1 knows whats wrong with this bird?



I'm sure this is quite worry, but can you give anymore symptoms. Is it small for its age? Any labored breathing? What do the droppings look like? Any swelling in the joints? Have you looked down the baby's throat to see anything unusual?

Are the parents getting enough calcium? That is the obvious first guess, With more symptoms we might be able to guess better.


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## Steelers Army (Mar 3, 2006)

*under the wings*

the only place where the feathers are not fully grown is under the wings but other than that s/he is full of feathers already, i cant post the pic for some reason my pop-up blocker is not working right, no it is not smaller, its almost as same size as an adult hen, brb folks got to run right quick


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Is the baby's crop emptying completely, and how are the legs themsleves positioned when he sits? Are they neatly folded and tucked under him, like your other babies that can walk?

Please respond so we can help.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

You might try holding this bird over you bed (a mattress anyway--something soft) and give it a few upsie-daisies to see if it will flap its wings. If you can get it to deliver "hover" power, then you can let it try to land on the bed itself. Watch the legs very carefully at this point to see if they're totally limp or if they move some with the toes extended. 

The sciatic nerve in birds runs through the kidneys and any swelling there can put pressure on the nerve and render them paralyzed to virtually any extent. That would seem an unlikely cause here, though.

Pidgey


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hi, Steelers Army PM'd me about this. I had not checked the forum before I responded to him. I have never had this happen but I wonder if this is simply because the baby is so young. With all the babies we've had recently, I have noticed that it takes awhile for them to get their "legs" going. They mostly will sit and when they do move it is in a kind of "crouch" and then they plop down again. It does puzzle me that the baby is using its wings to get around but Steelers Army said it's legs do move. It may be, if this baby is otherwise healthy, that it is just slow developing or even a bit lazy. Three weeks is still very young.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Lady Tarheel said:


> Hi, Steelers Army PM'd me about this. I had not checked the forum before I responded to him. I have never had this happen but I wonder if this is simply because the baby is so young. With all the babies we've had recently, I have noticed that it takes awhile for them to get their "legs" going. They mostly will sit and when they do move it is in a kind of "crouch" and then they plop down again. It does puzzle me that the baby is using its wings to get around but Steelers Army said it's legs do move. It may be, if this baby is otherwise healthy, that it is just slow developing or even a bit lazy. Three weeks is still very young.



I don't think that the age is the problem. I take my babies out of thier nest bowl at 18 days wean them 25 days, that's only 4 days older than this one..............he PM'd me also and I was at a loss as to what to tell him as I've never seen this either except in babies with spraddle leg..............one web site I went to says "salmonella" and "pmv" show symptoms of leg paralysis, but we don't know what the dropping look like yet??

http://www.chevita.com/tauben/e-index3.html


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## alvin (May 10, 2006)

Would the other birds not exhibit the same symptoms? They would be in very close proximity to the sick squab, and almost certainly become infected?
- I have to admit, I'm in a clue free zone here


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## Steelers Army (Mar 3, 2006)

*okay folks*

 Everything looks so fine until yesterday that I noticed s/he cant stand on his/her feet, now I did check throat clean and pink and the way s/he sits down is normal (under and folded like other birds sits) droppings are round and brownish color; of course its smooshed flat since the bird is crawling it end up in underneath her/him, I do hope like Lady Tarhell says its slow in developing and not PMV or Salmonella, 
Trees Gray; the crop is not as full as it is , but I do understand that the squab is pecking for food when I put it in the nestbox with parents and the sibling, also his size looks full grown to me s/he is same size as their mother, let me go and find out if theres any improvement on the bird...be back in a few <---------worried


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

alvin said:


> *Would the other birds not exhibit the same symptoms? *They would be in very close proximity to the sick squab, and almost certainly become infected?
> - I have to admit, I'm in a clue free zone here


Sometimes and not necessarily. Both of the diseases mentioned can walk through a flock slowly or like a tornado, it just depends on a thousand different things. Doesn't even have to be one of those.

Pidgey


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

well, I'm stumped??????? I thought calcium??? but how could one baby in a nest of two not get as much as the other baby?? enough to cause this kind of problem?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Originally, he'd said the "three months" and that was what made me suggest that he try the flapping down to the bed deal. Obviously, that's not going to work here. I think I'd pick the bird up and see whether there's any movement or motor control whatsoever. That's tough, sometimes. Anyhow, one of the safest antibiotics for nestlings is Bactrim (Trimethoprim/Sulfa) so if one has to go guessing and trying something without a clue--that'd be the one to give it a shot with.

Pidgey


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## Steelers Army (Mar 3, 2006)

*I apologize; Pidgey*

Anyway, the pij is now under my care, no luck , still doing the same crawling to move forward, when I hold the bird s/he making this breathing so hard and the mouth are gasping for air like having a asthma attack, then I figure maybe I am squeezing the bird tight enough for the bird to breath that hard, then I open my palm with his/her legs in between my fingers, s/he sits there, which I think I held the bird a little tight, I also noticed that s/he is losing weight now, tried wiggling the legs but only 1 responded,(right leg) I tried pulling it gently and s/he pulled back very little, the left has no motion at all, fed the bird with pigeon pellets and put it in a warm place with shredded papers as the cushion, keep ya'll update next...

What do you think is wrong with him/her?
you can also PM me if needed, thanks


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Oliver, what you just described is not a slow developing baby.

Has this baby fallen out of its nest at any time? Is there any swelling of its belly? The reason I ask this is we rescued a baby several years ago that had fallen from its nest on a bridge. This baby had what I call "tortured" breathing, a large bruise on it's belly with swelling and a broken leg. We immediately took her to an after hours clinic where the vet wanted to put her down because of the breathing and bruising - said that normally there were severe intenal injuries when they exhibited symptoms like that. We said no, that we felt the heavy breathing was from the fall itself, scared, etc. She took a lot of TLC but she recovered and was later released.

This bird was between 2-3 weeks old, weighed 250 grams. She was treated with Baytril for 7 days and also on Butorphenol for pain.

If your baby has not suffered a fall or any trauma that may account for what is going on then I'm just stumped on what is happening.

Please keep us posted.


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## Steelers Army (Mar 3, 2006)

*so far no injury*




Lady Tarheel said:


> Oliver, what you just described is not a slow developing baby.
> 
> Has this baby fallen out of its nest at any time? Is there any swelling of its belly? The reason I ask this is we rescued a baby several years ago that had fallen from its nest on a bridge. This baby had what I call "tortured" breathing, a large bruise on it's belly with swelling and a broken leg. We immediately took her to an after hours clinic where the vet wanted to put her down because of the breathing and bruising - said that normally there were severe intenal injuries when they exhibited symptoms like that. We said no, that we felt the heavy breathing was from the fall itself, scared, etc. She took a lot of TLC but she recovered and was later released.
> 
> ...


No the bird didnt fall off from their nestbox, one did but thats from another pair but the only injury that I've seen is s/he got peck and bruise the head but minor injuries, I do think that heavy breathing because s/he is scared of me but s/he got used to me while feeding and dont struggle anymore maybe b-coz s/he knows that " Im hungry and he needs to feed me so why bother struggling " other than any swelling? well I dont think s/he is in pain I do examine the whole body and if I know s/he twitch on that part Im sure that hurts but none like that, I also keep checking if the throat will swell up so far no, I noticed that s/he can move around by using of wings very slight chance of lifting itself...


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Well, seems you've stumped us all!!!  I for one really have no idea what to tell you to do. I do know this though, if the leg doesn't "fix itsself" you're going to have a pet on your hands. I don't think it will survive or be very happy in a loft full of walking, flying birds. They will pick on it constantly........ Hopefully someone will come up with a good reason this has happened and have some ideas on what to do.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

It might be best to have the baby checked out by a rehabber now. Do you know of anyone in your area that specializes in birds?

Is mom and dad still feeding it, if not make sure the bird is getting plenty of B complex vitamins, calcium, and other minerals and trace minerals. A good varied diet of seed, and even a bit of dry dog food that is organic, with no artificial stuff would be beneficial. You can crumble it and add a little bit to the seed. If he is still not eating well, try soaking and draining it and hand feed it to him with the seed.
a probiotic would also be advised for this youngster to aid with digestion and help crowd out any bad bacteria.

Make sure the youngster also gets a little sunlight everyday as sunshine supplies them with vital nutrients.


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## Steelers Army (Mar 3, 2006)

*thanks to ya'll;*

 I will try to take care and practice its legs to stretch and maybe one day s/he can stand up, I'll keep ya'll posted about him/her, yes the parents are still feeding the sibling in the loft, I also giving my birds some Purina dog food I heard they are good in protein, giving them some grey grits, mixed pigeon food and safflowers, whole corn since I heard that cracked corns can damage the inside of pigeons so I start not buying any more of it,  

Anyway I do thank you guys, Alvin, Lady Tarheel, LoveBirds, Pidgey & Trees Gray for all the knowledge and opinions you have given me...Love you all 

Oliver


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Oliver, 

I just did a fast skim through the thread here, so forgive me if this was already asked...but...

Have you checked his various leg joints and Wing joints for any swelling?

Is there any other occasions of Beak breathing beside when you were holding him?

He might have some sort of respiratory illness which is also effecting him globally or systemically or weakening him or making his system toxic and overloading his Kidneys...

Are his poops at all different from those of his well sibling or parents?


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

I just remembered a baby we had back in 2002.......it was not paralized but it was "goofy" for lack of a better word. It just seemed slow, not developmentily, but mentally and it didn't fly to well. I shipped it to a lady up north that was looking for a pet and the last I heard, the bird was doing ok. The parents were brother/sister..........mistake on my part. The sibling was fine, in fact took a second place in a couple of races that year. My point......could this be genetic? What do you know about the parents of this bird. Any background, pedigree??? Just a thought.........maybe, probably, way off base.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Oliver............does this baby flap it's wings at all? I mean if you hold it in the palm of your hand and do a slight up and down motion. At 3 weeks old, it should flap it's wings a little......


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## Steelers Army (Mar 3, 2006)

*late for update than never*

I will try to answer all the questions and share you all my findings about the bird, like everybody else I am no expert on bird sickness and I honestly can not afford more than $50 to bring my bird to the vet so I will try to ask and take care of the bird on my own, the poops are very dark brown and watery, when I feed the bird I let it sit and just open the beak so I wont and havent seen the bird breathing or gasping hard for air, s/he only gasp for air when I held her on my hand, the parents came from 2 diffferent breeders and do not know each other, s/he can flap and doing this very strong, joints and wings are perfectly normal and strong, only the legs are not responding properly, I mean s/he can pull it back if I tried pulling them out but can not use them to stand up.

Oliver


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

OK. Since no one has any ideas how about trying this? See this article/picture.

http://www.redroselofts.com/braveheart.htm

Maybe if you suspended the bird just high enough so that her/his feet just do touch the floor and maybe, just maybe it will TRY to use them. At this point I don't see how it can hurt anything. Maybe while it's hanging around  you could work it's feet some, tickle them or something and try to get a response. Maybe it's just lazy? I don't really think so, but I don't think any of us know what to think!! I've seen the banana rack they use at Wal-Mart before for about $3 or $4.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Steelers Army said:


> I honestly can not afford more than $50 to bring my bird to the vet so I will try to ask and take care of the bird on my own, the poops are very dark brown and watery,



Hi Oliver

Go to the health food store and purchase a bottle of Solaray probiotics in the refrigeration section. You can buy the powder or capsules. You will notice a big difference in this baby when it gets some extra much needed good gut flora going, and the poops will get solid and baby will put on weight, as it will help it assimilate its seeds better. Youngsters lack good gut bacteria and it is depleted upon stres of injury or move, etc.

It is worth the money.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Trees Gray said:


> Hi Oliver
> 
> Go to the health food store and purchase a bottle of Solaray probiotics in the refrigeration section. You can buy the powder or capsules. You will notice a big difference in this baby when it gets some extra much needed good gut flora going, and the poops will get solid and baby will put on weight, as it will help it assimilate its seeds better. Youngsters lack good gut bacteria and it is depleted upon stres of injury or move, etc.
> 
> It is worth the money.


Thanks Trees..........I completely overlooked the "poop" factor. I'm so worried about the poor baby not being able to walk.......


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## Steelers Army (Mar 3, 2006)

*hi guys just an update*

S/he can walk slowly and stand up a bit but still wobbly when s/he tries to walk far, and using its knees when s/he gets tired, thats how s/he stands up, given some purina dog food mixed with pigeon pellets and (this is surprising) milk, very few of all those and 4 squirts of the syringe (big 1) with 10 inches tube, s/he ate much as the siblings in the loft, I've seen this case before the only difference is the 1st one was a lot older...keep ya'll posted next time, bye
thanks again guys 
Oliver


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Oliver,

The milk isn't a good idea .. birds can't digest it .. better to use water or Pedialyte to moisten the food.

Terry


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## Steelers Army (Mar 3, 2006)

*Diluted Milk w/water*

 I put more water in mixed with milk so it wont be hard for him/her to digest it, thanks for your concern Terry, I've read something like that before so Im aware of it, I be honest with you I also put a very few flintstones vitamins mixed with those milk and water with pigeon pellets and yes its still kicking, I do think those kicks in pretty good, thats only my own observation, its like steroids for the bird,now s/he is standing and walking around the house a lot s/he can actually use those feet after 1 day & 2 nights of the things I've been giving him/her...I wont advice to follow what I did but thats on my own risk, and I have the bird to prove it , s/he got me busy and stays up late just to watch every mins of activities , I think its worth it sacrifizing my time to make it walk (oh thats with massage and every 20 mins stretch of its legs)...I want to share the pic of him/her standing but I cant figure out how this thing works now...maybe some other time...Thanks again to all who gave me their opinions about this...


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Good luck with the bird, Oliver .. you are playing with fire in a way. I hope all will be well.

Terry


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Oliver, I'm glad to hear the baby is improving but please do stop the milk. Instead, buy some plain yogurt and substitute it for the milk. Will be lots better for the baby.

I don't know anything about the Flintstone vitamins being given to birds - just never heard of it. We use Vionate powder.

This may be a situation where the baby was just a little slow "getting her sea legs" going....something you'll never know.


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