# Photoshopped pigeon photos: The cat is out of the bag!



## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

I've often wondered why we as a group find it acceptable for sales photos of pigeons, especially the pricey ones, to be trimmed up in Photoshop in what amounts to a misrepresentation. 

Maybe we are so used to being assaulted by misleading advertising in our everyday lives that we have just come to accept it. I hope it's not that we don't notice that these pigeons have lines like Porches and Ferraris instead of the birds they are? It's called the Pen Tool in Photoshop folks, and it's way over used and I've never heard anyone complain about it even once. Do we not see it? Do we not care? They are even rotating the image slightly to make the bird appear more erect than they really are!

Pipa's photography seems to be the most egregious in my opinion and since they are the premiere auction site, I guess they are considered the leaders. If Pipa does it, it's ok for us to do it, right? 

In Pipa's attempt at leading the way once again in visual representations of their auction birds, they may have just revealed what's really behind the curtain. I applaud their use of new technologies, like their 360-degree view of an auction bird. It's a perfect, fantastic tool for this use. They should use it with every bird. 

But I'm betting it goes away and fast. Why? Because they can't (or don't have time to) trim up the 18 frames that make up the 360-degree clip. So what we get is a more realistic look at the bird. And boy, from what I've seen, those birds don't look so good after all. Gasp! They actually have feathers around their vents?? You mean they have a wing on the other side of their body after all? They have more than one tail feather?

(The technology here, fwiw, is to take "one" photo with multiple cameras simultaneously. Imagine a platform with the pigeon on it surrounded by 18 cameras that are hardwired to fire at the same time. You get the same photo but from 18 different angles).

Go look for yourselves. Not every bird has a 360 view of it. But all of the ones I looked at didn't look like the same bird as in the 'Pedigree' photo just above it. All of the sudden, they look like real birds! It's actually quite comforting to me now.

Here's an example that can be seen at this link:

Here's what we have come to expect (accept?) from a Pipa photo:










But here is what the bird REALLY looks like as seen in one of the views from the 360-degree clip:


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## Ashby Loft (Aug 31, 2007)

Interesting that the bird seems to have put on weight and developed better muscle tone in the photo-shopped version. 
I think a slight boost in the color saturation and maybe a bump in the sharpness would be fine. But they are taking it a bit too far.

Also a standard looking orange/brown eye is now a brilliant red. This is very misleading to any eye sign officianados.


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## brentjohnf (Sep 8, 2008)

Looks like they use the same outline for every photoshopped , as I copied a few and past in paint they matchup. They shouldnt have photo shopped them that much..

Kind of diffrent but, I do know my uncle went up to Michigan to buy a beagle it looked like a collie I sware when he got it, few months later it lost the long fur. It ran rabbit just as good the day he got it, as it dose now with short fur. You would never think its the same dog it was all brown and white. Now its black and white. Wish we had pics.. But it was bought for bloodline and performance and not looks. Just lighting up the subject.


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## gogo10131 (Aug 17, 2010)

I agree two very different birds and if the only thing you're going off of is the picture you'll truly be disappointed. I think they'll continue to do this as a way to make their birds seem far more superior then your regular loft and if we continue to turn a blind eye to it, they'll continue to misrepresent their birds. 

P.S. Kastle loft I've gotten a few complainants on the new website. thanks again


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

gogo10131 said:


> I agree two very different birds and if the only thing you're going off of is the picture you'll truly be disappointed. I think they'll continue to do this as a way to make their birds seem far more superior then your regular loft and if we continue to turn a blind eye to it, they'll continue to misrepresent their birds.
> 
> P.S. Kastle loft I've gotten a few complainants on the new website. thanks again


Hey thanks, I hope you meant compliments not complaints 

You've got some nice birds to be showing off on that new site!


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

When I did my bird I tried to make it look like the actual bird as I could. The tail is a lil messed up and you can see the other wing but only a lil like it was in the pic I took of the bird. But I know what your talking about the pics on most of these sites are so touched up it's crazy the birds don't look anything like the pictures.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

The only photoshopping I would do is cut the background out to make it white. I wouldn't alter the bird.


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

gogo10131 said:


> I agree two very different birds and if the only thing you're going off of is the picture you'll truly be disappointed. I think they'll continue to do this as a way to make their birds seem far more superior then your regular loft and if we continue to turn a blind eye to it, they'll continue to misrepresent their birds.
> 
> P.S. Kastle loft I've gotten a few complainants on the new website. thanks again


AT - Our conversation the other night got me fired up all over again. Then the next morning I see the ads for the Pipa 360 auction and I just had to get it off my chest. I realize most of us don't trim at all or if we do it's not excessive. 

But when the high-dollar birds are being pitched as something that they are not, I'm just surprised there is not more of a pushback from buyers. It must say something about the buyers - are they buying the paper and not the bodies?


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

Pigeon0446 said:


> When I did my bird I tried to make it look like the actual bird as I could. The tail is a lil messed up and you can see the other wing but only a lil like it was in the pic I took of the bird. But I know what your talking about the pics on most of these sites are so touched up it's crazy the birds don't look anything like the pictures.


I think yours is a very realistic representation. AND your bird looks good. So it IS possible to shoot good photos of birds and not have to digitally sculpt them.


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## SouthTown Racers (Jan 14, 2009)

What program do all of you use to cut the bird out of a picture and put it on a different backgound??


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

SouthTown Racers said:


> What program do all of you use to cut the bird out of a picture and put it on a different backgound??


I use Photoshop exclusively. There are others out there but I'm not familiar with them.


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## johnnyksspeedshop (Oct 12, 2007)

Taking good pigeon pictures is very hard, especially to get them in the right stance. And without the right lighting, its very difficult. That being said, I dont think they should change the body shape or anything of the pigeon, but it is understandable to make other adjustments to more closely represent the pigeons. Here is my pictures, hopefully they will get better than what these are!


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

wonword, your birds look good, you must also have a good camera i have been wanting to put up pictures of my breeders but cant figure out how to take pics of them


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## johnnyksspeedshop (Oct 12, 2007)

Thank you! I think I may eventually try building a photo box, I think that is the biggest thing about getting a good picture with a a white background and good lighting. Even with a point and shoot camera, pictures should look decent in a photo box.


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## SouthTown Racers (Jan 14, 2009)

wonword said:


> Thank you! I think I may eventually try building a photo box, I think that is the biggest thing about getting a good picture with a a white background and good lighting. Even with a point and shoot camera, pictures should look decent in a photo box.


Awesome Birds!!!!


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

I am not a big fan of the 360 views Pipa is using. A doctored side view or a 360 view do not do the birds justice. I would like to see video of the birds. All the Pipa auction birds are doctored. I would not question the quality of the birds in the Pipa auction though. Like looking at a girlie mag. The real thing is better than a doctored photo. Same with birds. you have to watch them.


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## PigeonVilla (Dec 8, 2010)

hillfamilyloft said:


> I am not a big fan of the 360 views Pipa is using. A doctored side view or a 360 view do not do the birds justice. I would like to see video of the birds. All the Pipa auction birds are doctored. I would not question the quality of the birds in the Pipa auction though. Like looking at a girlie mag. The real thing is better than a doctored photo. Same with birds. you have to watch them.


 I would have to agree seeing the live bird would be best , it isnt really asking that much for birds at those prices to see a short video well at least on that website with all the money they make thru it . We all new those photos were enhanced in some way or most should have , they are always to perfect,just one persons opinion here .


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

PigeonVilla said:


> We all new those photos were enhanced in some way or most should have , they are always to perfect,just one persons opinion here .


If we all know the photos are enhanced, why is it we are knowingly willing to buy a bird that likely doesn't look like it's represented? Certainly people aren't buying based on body type.


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## PigeonVilla (Dec 8, 2010)

Kastle Loft said:


> If we all know the photos are enhanced, why is it we are knowingly willing to buy a bird that likely doesn't look like it's represented? Certainly people aren't buying based on body type.


 Are you actually even buying any of these birds yourself ? most dont just buy on pictures alone either


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

PigeonVilla said:


> Are you actually even buying any of these birds yourself ? most dont just buy on pictures alone either


No I don't. But many people apparently do.

Again, it's the fact that it is a misrepresentation that bothers me. The photos are part of the advertising package (a huge part), so yes there are obviously other elements the buyers are spending money on - like pedigree, breeding record and reputation of the breeder. But i contend It would be more fair to just not have a photo than to have one that lies.

How satisfied would you be if you bought a product thinking you were getting one thing but got another? If these birds were any other product, like say, used cars or leather jackets, this would never fly, so to speak.

Just sayin'


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## rpalmer (Mar 10, 2011)

Kastle Loft said:


> No I don't. But many people apparently do.
> 
> Again, it's the fact that it is a misrepresentation that bothers me. The photos are part of the advertising package (a huge part), so yes there are obviously other elements the buyers are spending money on - like pedigree, breeding record and reputation of the breeder. But i contend It would be more fair to just not have a photo than to have one that lies.
> 
> ...



I don't think the pictures mean an awful lot on PIPA. They auction select birds from world renowned lofts. In this case you are actually buying the bird and not the picture. While you may have an issue with the sites photography, if it were actually a problem and a gross misrepresentation the buyers who spend thousands of dollars would complain about or boycott the sales.

There is actually a problem with payments due being paid. Not a photographic one. If you ever get a bird from a PIPA auction perhaps you will share the photo in the sale verses the bird you received and your disappointment in the bird.


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

It's not just pipa. Look through the racing pigeon digest ads. It's a trend that starts at the top (pipa), and finds itself emulated many tiers down.

I guess you're right in that it must not be a problem or more people would be complaining. I find it baffling myself.

If I were to spend thousands on the bird I originally pictured from pipa, and then what I received looked like the bird in the 360, you bet I would be disappointed.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Had some fun with this. I took two birds from the pipa auction and zapped the white background. I made them the same size and then superimposed them on each other. I then did a third bird. The pic tells the story.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

They were random off of different auctions.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

My thoughts are that the error was in my sizing. Otherwise they would have been identical.


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

hillfamilyloft said:


> My thoughts are that the error was in my sizing. Otherwise they would have been identical.


So are saying that their cut-outs are essentially a template that is applied to each bird (or at least the ones you randomly picked)?


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

I am not a photoshop expert, but the birds are photoshopped to a template. Don't know if they have some standard photos that they just use and then change the bands. The birds are at the same angle, same shape etc. Don't think this one is by chance. A bit of false advertising. I was wondering why all the birds were starting to look the same. Gives a false concept of the ideal pigeon.


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## johnnyksspeedshop (Oct 12, 2007)

Kastle Loft said:


> No I don't. But many people apparently do.
> 
> Again, it's the fact that it is a misrepresentation that bothers me. The photos are part of the advertising package (a huge part), so yes there are obviously other elements the buyers are spending money on - like pedigree, breeding record and reputation of the breeder. But i contend It would be more fair to just not have a photo than to have one that lies.
> 
> ...


Can you give a little tutorial on how you take pictures of your birds and process them. The photos of your birds on your website are gorgeous and seem to be good representations of your birds.


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## sdymacz (Aug 30, 2010)

http://www.pigeonphotography.nl/?lang=en

they do a nice job in touch up those birds look like supermodels


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## Thunderbird Racing (Jul 24, 2010)

I would like to know how you cut out the birds from a photo so nicely to begin with. Every time I try they end up looking like T-Rex


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## NewHopePoultry (Feb 7, 2010)

MaryOfExeter said:


> The only photoshopping I would do is cut the background out to make it white. I wouldn't alter the bird.


Thats all I would do If I did it. But I dont have photoshop (only paint) so I dont even attmept to do it,lol


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Thunderbird Racing said:


> I would like to know how you cut out the birds from a photo so nicely to begin with. Every time I try they end up looking like T-Rex


It is really simple, the key is to take a picture up against a solid background, ie green screen. The rest is simple. A good high resolution picture with a solid background. The rest is an afternoon to teach yourself photoshop, or pixelmator etc.


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## sdymacz (Aug 30, 2010)

free for photo touch up

http://www.hongkiat.com/blog/11-free-alternatives-softwares-to-adobe-photoshop/

and if you have photoshop, tutorials are avaiable on youtube

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=adobe+photoshop+tutorial&aq=f


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

My picture of Maverick in my webpage was a low resolution low lit photo in an aviary with a wire background. Pain to take the background out. Did not turn out too bad for a first attempt. Next year I think I will clean the lofts, bathe the birds and take videos of my pairs to put on youtube. Do it in Imovie. Might be fun.


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

hillfamilyloft said:


> It is really simple, the key is to take a picture up against a solid background, ie green screen. The rest is simple. A good high resolution picture with a solid background. The rest is an afternoon to teach yourself photoshop, or pixelmator etc.


I agree. Use a clean background with good bright light on your subject and that will make the computer side of things much easier for you.


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

Kastle Loft said:


> I agree. Use a clean background with good bright light on your subject and that will make the computer side of things much easier for you.


I've been using a white background but photoshop doesn't cut it out the way I would like all the time so I go in and cut out the background little by little. What would the best background color be I was thinking of getting paint and painting my photo box a bright green like a green screen.


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## johnnyksspeedshop (Oct 12, 2007)

They probably dont do it with all pigeons, but Pipa just did what some of you guys said they should do, and upload videos of each auction bird. The quality of the video is great, here is their channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/nikolaasgyselbrecht


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## sunshineracinglofts (Sep 1, 2011)

man kastle.... dude your photography is phenomenal, especially the wing stuff.... how do you do that? in the dark with a flash ? then bring the contrast way up?


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

sunshineracinglofts said:


> man kastle.... dude your photography is phenomenal, especially the wing stuff.... how do you do that? in the dark with a flash ? then bring the contrast way up?


 Thanks. And yup it's in the dark and I light it with three or four flash units. Strong lights can overpower the natural light in the background. Then it's shoot, shoot, shoot until you get something you like! It's fun because you never know what you are going to get when you push the button because you are catching that fraction of a second they are in their motion of flight. 

I like it because it's something we never get to see with our own eyes as we watch them fly.


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

It took me less then 10 seconds to take my bird's picture. I guess you can say he knew he was on camera!


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

Kal-El said:


> It took me less then 10 seconds to take my bird's picture. I guess you can say he knew he was on camera!


It only took me 1/125th of a second  (photographer's joke)


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