# Hello, I live in Australia and my pigeon has canker



## goldtiger (May 8, 2011)

Hello, how are you all going  I live in Australia and my pigeon has canker. So I took him to the avian vet and he has to stay in there for one week to get all his medicines, and then they will check him again, and then he may need to stay another week to get more medicine

My problem is that every day there is a flock of wild pigeons who visit our backyard and the pigeon who is currantly at the vet plays with them all day and eats and drinks with them. I am scared the rest of the flcok has canker too, as I saw one bird yersterday who looked fluffy and tired.

How can I treat the whole flock so that they won't get it and also so that when my pigeon comes back from the vet, so he won't get it again off them

I heard you can put something in their food so that when they eat it the medicine goes into them. Where abouts would I buy that in Australia?

Is it expensive? I have already spent $700 at the avain vet and now I am a bit short

Thanks heaps for your time, I do appreciate it a lot


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Ronidazole is good for flock treatment, you mix it in with their drinking water.
Pigeon suppliers like 'Foyes' sells it. I don't know about shipping to Australia 
Here's a link for them http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/catalog/canker.html


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Jedds will ship meds to Australia. One of our members was able to obtain some 'Fishzole' I believe (aka Metronidazole). I think you will find the other US companies do not ship overseas. Just Google Jedds Pigeons.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Better to put it in the feed, as you know they will eat it. If you put it in the water, they may drink somewhere else. I know some birds will drink the water you offer, but lots of times they go elsewhere to drink. You know they are coming for the feed and will eat it. The flock I feed don't always drink here, but they are coming to eat. They're hungry.


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## goldtiger (May 8, 2011)

*Thank you all so much*

Hello, and thank you all so very much for your help, I really appreciate it 

I am thinking that I will put something in their food, because often they come and eat and then they leave without having a drink at all. A few will have a drink but the rest just eat and then leave, but I know for sure that they all eat here so I think that if I put it in their food it would be more effective.

What is it called that I would need to put in their food? 


Thanks heaps for your time, I really appreciate it a lot


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## macka (Oct 26, 2008)

goldtiger said:


> Hello, how are you all going  I live in Australia and my pigeon has canker. So I took him to the avian vet and he has to stay in there for one week to get all his medicines, and then they will check him again, and then he may need to stay another week to get more medicine
> 
> My problem is that every day there is a flock of wild pigeons who visit our backyard and the pigeon who is currantly at the vet plays with them all day and eats and drinks with them. I am scared the rest of the flcok has canker too, as I saw one bird yersterday who looked fluffy and tired.
> 
> ...


I have never heard such rubbish,no Vet would keep a Pigeon,
in for a week for Canker,he would of given it a dose of one of the Canker treatments & sent you on your way & if he has I would report him to the
Vet Board,


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## goldtiger (May 8, 2011)

*Hello, this is why he kept him for a week*

Hello, thanks heaps for your reply 

The reason he kept him for a week is because of what happened just before that. What happened was, the vet only keot him for 2 days and then he sent him home with me and the medicine, but I had trouble giving him his medicine so he didnt get the full dose and the canker came back worse.

I was a wuss and my bird looked sad locked in a cage as he is usually free, and he looked very depressed so I let him out and thought I would pick him up and give him his medicine daily, because he usually sits on my lap and eats while I pat him. But he figured it all out and he ran away from me instead.

So I finially caught him and I went back to the vet in tears and then they had to give him all the medicine again they said, that is why they kept him for a week as I asked if they could, to help us both


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Christina, you posted in two other forums that you left him at a bird sitting place who did have a vet on hand. Now you say you left him at the first vet. Where did you leave the bird? I'm confused


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

After you get birds back start your routine of giving your birds ACV(Apple cider vinegar) or even just plain vinegar twice a week in their drink as part of their diet(preventative maintenance). That will help or prevent canker problem. People put 1-2 tablespoon of ACV or vinegar on 1 gallon of water.

Also don't share feed and water to the wild pigeons. Feed your birds inside alone. If you want to feed and water the wild ones, just do so without your birds hanging with them.


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## macka (Oct 26, 2008)

Jay3 said:


> Christina, you posted in two other forums that you left him at a bird sitting place who did have a vet on hand. Now you say you left him at the first vet. Where did you leave the bird? I'm confused


Any one that could't treat a Pigeon & then has 2 different story's.
It is a bit hard to be leave they are on the level,about the story,
Full Stop.


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## goldtiger (May 8, 2011)

Hello, yes I have left him in the bird siitng place for one week, who do have a vet on hand, which is 10 minutes away, as the first vet yelled at me for not giving the mediaction properly. But I didn't want to confuse everyone with all the ins and outs of the story, so I just got to the point of what my question was, which was how to treat the rest of the flock, which I what I am really worried about. It would take me an hour to write out the whole story, the vet yelled, I cried, the bird was startled by the 7 university students in the vets room who were there to learn that day, I took my bird home, my Dad wouldn't let me keep my bird inside as my Dad is strict, so I had to put my bird in the shed, then he got cold and shivered, and got depressed, so I let him out, as I thought he might die of depression, then I couldn't catch him to give him his medication, all the while me and my Dad and my Mum were sick with viruses too and Im having to give them their medicine too, then my bird looked sick again so I finally caught him and put himback in the cage then I couldn't get a lift to the vet which is far away, so I had to find a life etc etc, that is what happened but I thought I would spare you all the details because if I wrote all that you would probably get so bored that you wouldn't even get to my question. So: that is why I cut out all the unimportant bits, and jsut wanted to ask: how do I treat the rest of the flock so that they won't have it too, and so that my bird won't catch it back, Yes, I am asking on other forums too but it is because I want to get as much info as I can to help my birds, and also because I am trying to find out if anyone knows where I can buy the stuff I need to treat the whole flcok


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

See earlier post: you can order various meds (like "Fishzole") from Jedds in the USA. Check their website.

Unless you can get meds from a vet you will not be able to buy them. Far as I am aware, from another Australian member, they are just not available 'over the counter' in Australia.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You can buy Metronidazolum at Jedd's and here is the link to it.

http://www.jedds.com/-strse-522/METRONIDAZOLUM/Detail.bok

It's for treating a feral flock, but they say to put it in the drinking water. I think you would have better luck putting it in the feed, as pigeons don't always drink when they come to feed. Sometimes they drink elsewhere. But they do come to eat. 
2 teaspoons to 2 pounds of seed. oil the seed lightly so that the medicine will adhere to the seed. Feed it to them for 5 days to one week.

You don't want Fishzole, as you need to treat the flock, and would only have to crush all the pills to come up with enough to mix with the seed. And where they do have the powder.


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## goldtiger (May 8, 2011)

*Thanks heaps for that*

Hello, and thanks heaps to you all for your help. I will look now at the jedds website, thanks heaps for that. I will ask the avian vet first if she can write me a prescription for some, to treat the whole flock too. I was just wondering- do I have to treat the whole flock first, before I put my pigeon back in with them, when I bring him back home? Or can I put my pigeon stright back in with them when he comes home, and then I will treat them all together? Thanks heaps for your help, I really appreciate it


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## whytwings (Feb 12, 2011)

goldtiger ..can you please tell me where you are located in Australia ???


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

goldtiger said:


> Hello, and thanks heaps to you all for your help. I will look now at the jedds website, thanks heaps for that. I will ask the avian vet first if she can write me a prescription for some, to treat the whole flock too. I was just wondering- do I have to treat the whole flock first, before I put my pigeon back in with them, when I bring him back home? Or can I put my pigeon stright back in with them when he comes home, and then I will treat them all together? Thanks heaps for your help, I really appreciate it


I doubt very much that the vet will prescribe any meds to treat the flock, especially in Australia where their rules about treating feral non native species are very strict.
On a second note, while it may seem kind of you to let him have time and company of the other wild birds in the flock, it also puts him at much greater risk of any infection or ailments which the feral flock may have.
Once he has been treated, it wont make him immune, if you continue to let him out with these birds he will become infected again.
I appreciate you trying to help the flock, but sadly, they will integrate with other birds at other locations and so the situation comes back round again.
If you really want to keep your pigeon safe, do not let him out with the feral flock.
If you want him to have company, have you thought of getting him a mate ?


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## goldtiger (May 8, 2011)

Hello, and thank you so very much for all your help, I really appreciate it a lot  I live in Melbourne, Victoria in Australia. Should I tell the vet that the rest of the flock are all my pets that I bought, as I keep pigeons, so that they will give me the medicine for them? After all, lots of people DO have a whole flock of birds that they DID buy to keep as pets. They may be technically feral but in real life they have been coming here for years and they are my best friends, they let me pat them, they eat out of my hand, each one has a name (given to them by me) and I know each little personality that they have. Some are adventurous, some are shy, some are cheeky and like to run into the kitchen when I go in to get their food, some sneak into the laundry and get into the birdseed box and help themselves. They are not just birds to me, they are the best friends ever. My piegon that I have which I got for my birthday last year has been hanging around with the feral pigeons in the yard the whole time I have had him, as when I put him in a cage he get very depressed. Does that mean that he will be more immune? Thanks heaps for your time, I do appreciate it a lot


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

If you keep other pigeons, you could try the vet, the worst they could do is say no, but as i've said, the medication does not make them immune, or give them any less chance of reinherriting the illness from other birds. Also, even if you were able to continually treat the wild flock, sadly the bacteria which cause the illness develop an immunity against the treatment, so continued treatment would do no good. Still much safer to keep your valued pet separate from the ferals if you can.
Normal lifespan for a feral bird is much shorter than that of one properly cared for in a safe enviroment. An average feral will normally live around 4 - 5 years, a well cared for pet - well who knows, there are some on here that have lived 18 years or more.


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## whytwings (Feb 12, 2011)

The medication you require to treat canker and what I have found to be the most widely used is called " Turbosole " it is given at a rate of 1 tsp per 2 litres of water for 1 - 3 days . It does not disolve in water easily , so you need to make sure that you stir and disolve it well ......always make it up fresh .

Alternatively There are " Canker R Tabs " avaliable ........these are used to treat birds individually and they are responsible for saving the lives of at least 4 of my youngsters , but when using these tabs there is a requirement on your part to catch each bird and administer the tablet orally .

Spartrix Tablets / Ronsec Tablets from Melb bird clinic will also treat canker individually

Ronsec Tablets - Pack of 50 $ 27.50
Spartrix Tablets -Pack of 50 $ 33.00
*TURBOSOLE*

for 200 grams = $ 42.90
400 grams= $ 69.00
1 kilogram= $ 150.00

These prices are effective as 08/04/2011

The supplier in Melbourne is " Melbourne Bird Veterinary Clinic
1 George Street 
SCORESBY , Victoria 3179
Tel : 03 9764 9000

When mentioning your feral birds........just say they are part of your own flock and that they are yours


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## goldtiger (May 8, 2011)

*Thanks heaps for that *

Thank you so VERY much all for your great advice, youse are the best!! I just love my flock too much. I am going to everything I can to beat this monster. I refuse to be outwitted by a protozoa! How can it be that they can put a man on the moon and they can invent computers to do amazing things, but with all humans genius, they cannot outwit a one cell organism. If I ever get rich I am going to donate lots of money to wipe that horrible canker off the face of the Earth!

That turbosole sounds great! Do I need to get a prescription off the same vet who sells it in order to buy some?

How quickly can a cured pigeon catch canker again if they are put back into the flock? Doesn't all that one week of canker mediaction that he had offer any protection at all? 

Thank you all so much for help, I really appreciate it a lot.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

goldtiger, why are you getting the turbosole to mix in the water? In another forum, you said that they don't always drink at your place. They go somewhere else. A hit or miss treatment is what created all this trouble to begin with. You had agreed there that getting something for the seed would be better, as they do come to eat. You are jumping back and forth here, and it's really difficult to help you that way.


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## whytwings (Feb 12, 2011)

goldtiger said:


> That turbosole sounds great! Do I need to get a prescription off the same vet who sells it in order to buy some?QUOTE]
> 
> I never had to have a script to get turbosole , but then my TURBOSOLE was purchased thru a stockist in S . A of Dr. Rob Marshalls products from Sydney .
> 
> If you buy Turbosole thru Dr. Colin Walker from the Melbourne bird clinic , he may choose to speak with you first before giving the turbosole , in any case that is just a formality and is probably a requirement on his behalf .


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## goldtiger (May 8, 2011)

Hello, and thank yo so very much for your help 

I seriously need advice about what to do next. Today I rang the avain vet and he said that my bird doesn not have canker any more- the canker has gone, but there is a problem he said- my pigeon has a hole in the roof of his mouth. He said the canker did that damage before I had taken my bird to the vet. The avian vet said that he is trying to get to the bottom of the hole, and he is getting lots of gunk out of the hole every day, but as yet he hasn't got to the bottom of the hole, so he deoesn't know how deep in the hole goes.

The avian vet said that if it is only a small hole and he can find the end of the hole of then my bird will be okay, but if the hole goes all the way to my birds skull then he will have to be put down the avain vet said.

Help! I don't want him to be put down, I want him to get better and come home with me, he is my best friend. What should I do? Can he still live happily if I take him home and he has a hole in the roof of his mouth? Can't they do a skin graft or somthing and repair the hole or something? I have been crying all day, what should I do?

THe vet said in 2 days he will know whether he can get to the bottom of the hole or not and so I am going in 2 days to seee my bird and to talk to the vet and to pay all the money to the vet and I hope I can take him home

THe vet said that if he keeps getting more and more gunk out of the hole and if he can't find the bottom of the hole then he will have to be put down because the only way to tell how deep the hole is would be to put him under anasthetic and to split his head open and have a look which is not good the avain vet said so it would be better if he put him down he said. I don't want to kill my best friend. What do you all think?

Thanks heaps for your help, I do appreciate it a lot


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

I spoke with Pidgey, who confirmed my basic thinking with your bird and that is to keep him on two medicines, Trimethoprim/Sulfa and Metronidazole for a few more weeks (could be bit longer) and give the bird a chance to heal itself. If the bird is not suffering and can self maintain, then this is what I would do myself, as these guys can make some remarkable recoveries given time and support.

Karyn


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Canker occuring in the roof of the mouth, or, in the Sinuses, can sometimes continue in it's infectous erosions even though the Bird has been on the course of Medicines which one would think had elininted it from their system.

These localizations usually require the Medicines to be dissolved in a solution containing 'DMSO' and to be swabbed on or applied with a blunt tipped Needle or very small soft Catheter or as may be, in order to topically saturate effected tissues or lesion sites in addition to the use of the systemic Medicines.


If the deficit in the roof of his Mouth has had the infection eliminated, and, now consists only of some adhering necrotic/inflammitory debris, then such of that debris as can be mechanically removed, should be, so long as it is done carefully.\ and without causing bleeding.

Depending on the shape of the cavity, the debris may also release naturally and need no debriding.

Just how this will heal and reform or grow back in, would remain to be seen, as would how the new reformation might effect his ability to manage eating or Seeds proper.

Probably all this would work out alright over time.

Some of the roof of their Mouth leads upward, through a little Comb, to their Sinuses.

Canker in the Sinuses can sometimes cause them to loose their upper Beak.

For the time being, their upper Beak should probaby be regarded with special care and gentleness, since it's attatchment may have been weakened and will need time to mend.


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## goldtiger (May 8, 2011)

*Thank you so much for all your advice *

Hello, and thank you so very much for all your advice, I love you all too much  I am going to do exactly what you all said I should do.

I was just wondering, I know what metronidazole is, as my pigeon has been on that , but what is Trimethoprim/Sulfa, and what does that do? I will ask the avian vet tomorrow to give me those 2 medications for my pigeon who I love so very much

What does 'DMSO' mean? as it says I should dissolve the medicines in 'DMSO' Do I buy that from the avian vet too?

When I dissolve the medicine in DMSO, can I apply it with cotton buds, if I do it very gently and if I change the cotton bud to a new one each time I do it?

I was just wondering what is the best way for me to open his mouth gently so thatI don't harm his delicate beak, in order to swab the medicines onto the roof of his mouth. I am scared that if I pry his mouth open that I might hurt his weak beak, what do you think is the best way for me to open his beak, and then hold it open for a bit while I swab the medicines onto it?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

The Trimethoprim/Sulfa is a broad spectrum antibiotic to be given orally at a dose rate of 50mg/kg BID (twice a day) and the same dosing amounts for the Metronidazole. The recommendation I made was not for topical treatment, but for these meds to be given as oral medication, to be swallowed and to get into the birds body systems. You can Google DMSO, but essentially it is a carrier liquid that can cross membrane surfaces to "carry" in medications, if added, for deeper penetration into tissue. Not sure how easy it will be to find this where you are, a vet may have this, but it is most commonly used as a lineament, as on its own it helps to reduce swelling and inflammation, it is used a lot around horse race tracks.

Karyn


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Pardon my having not been clear - 

One does not dissolve the Medicine in 'DMSO'.

One dissolves the Medicine in a small amount of Water, and, adds a few drops of DMSO to the solution.

I usually add a couple 60 mG Tablets of Metronidazole or their equivelent, or a combination of anti-Canker meds, to an ounce of Water, and add maybe six or eight drops of DMSO to that...using a small Bottle wich an airtight Cap so it does not evaporate away.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Christina...On one of the other forums you have been posting about your pigeon, the question was asked if your sick bird is what is commonly called a feral pigeon or rather a species of pigeon native to Australia. I don't recall that you answered that question and I'm interested in knowing.
Also, I would love to have the vet contact info as it may benefit other members in your city, in the future.

Thank a bunch in advance for your answer and the contact info for the vet or clinic!...


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## goldtiger (May 8, 2011)

Hello, and thank you so VERY much for your help, I do appreciate it a lot  I have good news!  Today the avain vet where he is staying, rang me up and told me that they found the end of the hole, and that now my pigeon will be fine they said.  I am so happy! I think they said the hole only goes to the bone in the roof of his mouth. Is that a good thing, or is that still a bad hole? They said my pigeon is eating a lot and eating by himself, and that he loves peas and he is a real guts they said, he is eating all the peas. They said they will keep him for about 2 more days and then he can come home.

How does that all sound to you, does that sound like a good thing?

Im not sure what species of pigeon my pigeon is, but I will find a photo of him that I have stored on my computer from a while ago, and I will post it here so you can see.

To the lady who wanted the contact details of everywhere I have taken my bird: I will send you a PM now with all the details of the places I have taken my bird as I just have to fish them all out of my handbag.

Thank you so very much for all your excellent and wonderful help, my best friend bird is going to live! I am so happy! I prayed and God answered me


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Christina...I didn't get your PM. I don't want the contact info for all the places you have taken the bird...only the veterinarians that will treat pigeons.

I'm glad your pigeon is going to be okay...it's great news! 
Ronizole should work just fine in treating the rest of the flock.

Thanks a bunch!


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Hi Christina,

I haven't been here much lately, so I missed seeing your questions, so sorry! I'm Australian too, so I've been through a lot of the problems you described. I'm the person John mentioned who finally managed to buy most of the medicine I need from Jedd's. To my surprise, I didn't have any problems with customs.

Anyway I'm glad to hear that your pigeon is doing much better & that you have some ronidazole now.Its a great canker medicine to have on hand & so far its been a very effective treatment for canker in my local flock of wild pigeons. My 100gram jar cost me $80 plus a $300 vet consultation bill (and a dead pigeon, as the vet overdosed my sick pigeon on wormer). Its not within my means to pay that kind of money every time I find a sick pigeon with such a common and curable illness like canker, so I did a lot of research and experimenting with getting canker drugs elsewhere.

So far, I found that you can get a tablet form of Ronidazole from a spanish pigeon supply company on ebay, or fish zole from Jedd's for metronidazole. Regarding flock treatment, I have some reservations about this sort of thing. It is a pretty expensive way to go about things. And also you just can't really control the dosages of any medicine you give them in water or food, & with some drugs underdosing leads to resistance to that drug, making it less effective or worse, completely ineffective in the long run. 

However something that has been working quite well for me lately, since my flock are quite tame, is when I see that a pigeon is getting very sick adn I suspect a common illness like canker, I will medicate 2-3 little bread balls and toss them to the ill pigeon. Normally I would use a sulpha antibiotic and canker medication, and watch to see if the sick pigeon's droppings improve. Sometimes this one dose of antibiotic/canker meds is enough to get the pigeon over its `hump'. But in most cases, the bird needs ongoing treatment, so I try to catch the bird and meanwhile start its course of meds in the wild, just in case capture is impossible. So far this year, two of my ` rescues' were treated this way, completely in the wild, and they are doing great. The rest I managed to catch when they started to become weak, and I took them in. Meanwhile, I try to provide a reliable food & water source to this flock, both to keep them healthier & also tame enugh to hopefully catch them when they get into trouble. Its been a very rewarding experience. I went from helplessly watching wild pigeons suffer and die from canker and other illness for years, and not getting any help from wildlife carers or vets, to now having a dozen or so rescues living in my wild flock. Getting a hold of the righjt medication made all the difference to me, and I have the memebers of this forum to thanks for that.

Anyway, I hope some of this helps and its nice to meet you!


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## goldtiger (May 8, 2011)

Hello, and thanks heaps for that, that's an excelelnt help all that advice, I really appreciate it, thanks so muchf for that  Today I went to the vet and picked up my pigeon  He wa so happy to see me and I was so happy to see him! The vet said he is better now, I have to give him ronizole for one more week. And I will treat the rest of the flock too, for one week. Can I put ronizole in porridge that I have soaked in water? Or is it better if I put in on birdseed that I have coated with a bit of oil to make it stick? Thanks heaps for your help, and my pigeon says to tell you all thank you very much for your great advice which saved his life 


I have a question about the dose of ronivet- the avian vet wrote that for the ronivet-S powder that he gave me, that I should put half a scoop scoop which is half a gram of the powder in every 1 kilogram of birdseed, or one scoop which is 1 gram in 1 litre of water. Does that sound like the correct amount? Because earlier in this thread, someone said that I nned to put a bigger amount of powder in, but maybe th epowder they told me about was a different brand or a different strngth or something. The one I have here is called Ronivet-S by the brand vetafarm, and the bottle says it is 60mg/g

Thanks heaps for your help, I really appreciate it a lot


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Christina...you trusted the vet to treat your bird and so why would you question the dosing instructions he gave you for the flock? The drug he gave you is one commonly used in Australia for canker infection and so I think he understands how to give dosing instructions. I don't understand why you continue to question. This has been going on for days now.
You said earlier that the birds don't drink water where you feed them and so it doesn't make sense to put the medicine in the water. 
Individual treatment is always best because you know the bird is getting enough medicine. In this case, unless you can catch each bird in the flock daily to give an individual dose, there isn't much choice but to do a flock treatment, if you want to treat them.


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## goldtiger (May 8, 2011)

*Thank you*

Hello, I am not going to put the medicine in the water, I am going to put it in the food, as I stated in my post. I do trust the vet of course I do, but I was just wondering generally why earleir in this thread when someone told me the dose, I was just wondering why it is different to what the vet said

Anyway, I was also wondering how much oil I should use to coat the seeds with before I mix the ronivet in, to make it stick.

Also, do you think I am better off using fine bird seed, or the coarser wild bird seed mix?

Thanks heaps for your time, I do appreciate it a lot


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I think you need to put the medicine in whatever feed they are accustomed to eating, rather than change the food around.
You need to *lightly coat *the seed or just enough that the medicine will stick to it. This would be a *wee amount*. Start with a few drops, mix them into the seed and then feel the seed. If it doesn't seem to be enough, add a few more drops and so on until you figure out how much you need.
Once this is over, I would recommend you do start introducing the bigger seed such as a dove mix. Feeding pigeons wild bird seed mix, which is what I'm thinking you are feeding, is like giving them candy for each meal. Sure....they love it but it doesn't have the nutritional value they need.


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## Teresa (Jul 10, 2005)

goldtiger said:


> I have a question about the dose of ronivet- the avian vet wrote that for the ronivet-S powder that he gave me, that I should put half a scoop scoop which is *half a gram of the powder in every 1 kilogram of birdseed*, or one scoop which is 1 gram in 1 litre of water. Does that sound like the correct amount? Because earlier in this thread, someone said that I nned to put a bigger amount of powder in, but maybe th epowder they told me about was a different brand or a different strngth or something. The one I have here is called *Ronivet-S by the brand vetafarm, and the bottle says it is 60mg/g*


If that information is correct, half a gram of powder per day will only contain 30mg of ronidazole -- only enough for one pigeon...


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Teresa said:


> If that information is correct, half a gram of powder per day will only contain 30mg of ronidazole -- only enough for one pigeon...


Teresa, the called for dosing with Ronidazole is quite a bit different than Metronidazole. The dosing for Ronidazole is 12.5mg/kg (with other suggested dosing in the 6-10mg/kg range QD), so each 300g bird will need 3.75mg daily of Ronidazole (or as little as 1.8-3mg, with other suggested dosing).

Karyn


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

I have been dosing at 3mg per pigeon per day (weight range 200-250grams pigeons), and so far it seems to have worked out ok. My Ronidazole tablets say `30 mg per pigeon' so I can see where Teresa got the idea from. I use 1/10th of that amount though.

Roviet-S 60mg/g, which is what Christina has, stains feed and water a bright pink in colour, so it can be tricky getting the wild pigeons to eat it. Mine won't go near it if its in water.


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## goldtiger (May 8, 2011)

Hello, thanks heaps for all your help  Yes, it sure does stain the water and food bright pink, it looks horrible, like their is blood in it. Yuk. My pigeon is doing really well, he is bright and happy and I swear he is smiling!


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## Teresa (Jul 10, 2005)

Thanks, Karyn and Bella, that's good to know, and I'll make a note of the amounts of Ronidazole you use. 
So, with the amount prescribed, Goldtiger should be able to medicate a flock of 10, right? But isn't one kilo of seed too much for 10 pigeons?


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## goldtiger (May 8, 2011)

Hello, and thanks heaps for that  I have about 40 pigeons. How much should I use again, I am a bit mixed up. Thank you all so VERY much for your help, I appreciate it too much


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

goldtiger said:


> Hello, and thanks heaps for that  I have about 40 pigeons. How much should I use again, I am a bit mixed up. Thank you all so VERY much for your help, I appreciate it too much


I myself don't really medicate by food or water, I use direct methods, but I will do my best to help you. Each kilo of bird seed is going to equal 35oz if you use 1/2 a scoop and manage to evenly coat all the seeds with the Ronivet-S powder, each ounce is going to contain a little less than 1mg. (.857mg to be exact) According to the dosing I mentioned before, dosing as low as 1.8mg a day range per bird would be therapeutic. Therefore, I myself would use a full scoop to each kilo of seed, as this will mean that each ounce contains 1.74mg of Ronidazole, and most pigeons eat about an 1-1 1/2 ounces of food a day, and with them doing this the should receive therapeutic dosing. 

You will need, as mentioned, to very lightly coat the seeds with a bit of fresh oil to make the Ronivet-S powder stick, with oil on seeds, a little goes a long way and for a kilo of seeds you will need about 10 drops. When you add the oil you will need to immediately stir the seeds very well with a large spoon to make sure all the seeds get coated and not just absorbed by a lesser amount if not well stirred. Also add the Ronivet-S powder a little at a time stirring well to try and disperse through the seeds and get them all evenly coated.

This should get you close, if you have 40 birds, 1 kilo of food (35oz) may not be quite enough for them, but if you know 1 kilo is what they all eat a day, then I would add just a bit more of the Ronivet-S powder, to compensate for them not getting at least an ounce each a day.

Karyn


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## goldtiger (May 8, 2011)

Hello, and thanks heaps for that, I appreciate it so very much 

Can I treat all the pigeons with ronivet for 2 weeks instead of 1 week, so it will work even better, or is that dangerous and stupid?

Thanks heaps for your help


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

goldtiger said:


> Hello, and thanks heaps for that, I appreciate it so very much
> 
> Can I treat all the pigeons with ronivet for 2 weeks instead of 1 week, so it will work even better, or is that dangerous and stupid?
> 
> Thanks heaps for your help


Glad it helped a bit. This is one of those cases where it would be best to follow the manufacturer's instructions for period of treatment, if Vetafarm recommends 1 week only of treatment, then best to follow these guidelines.

Karyn


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

I have a quick question for the Aussies: Aren't you breaking the laws treating a feral flock like this? Granted the law may stink and be morally void, but you are open to prosecution if you are...


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## goldtiger (May 8, 2011)

Hello, and thanks heaps for that  My pigeon looks really happy  Today he ate birdseed out of my hand and he had one foot on the ground and the other foot on my hand. How cute he is


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Jaysen said:


> I have a quick question for the Aussies: Aren't you breaking the laws treating a feral flock like this? Granted the law may stink and be morally void, but you are open to prosecution if you are...


I guess it's against the law to release them. It's not against the law to treat a feral if you are not going to release it. So maybe it isn't actually against the law to treat them. Besides...........who would know?


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

Or maybe treating it without capturing it is legal?

Sometimes it isn't about "who knows" but about honoring the law itself. That way if folks do take a second look you would not be guilty. Think Enron, Madoff etc.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Jaysen said:


> Or maybe treating it without capturing it is legal?
> 
> Sometimes it isn't about "who knows" but about honoring the law itself. That way if folks do take a second look you would not be guilty. Think Enron, Madoff etc.


I understand what you're saying. But a law that would force a person to ignore a sick or injured animal, feral or otherwise, and not allow help for that animal, is a law that needs to be broken. There is a higher authority that would want you to.


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## goldtiger (May 8, 2011)

They are not feral pigeons I own them all. I just said they were feral because I wanted to ask my questions quickly before my pigeon died so I shortened my questions to just include the important bits. I didn't know that the pigeon mafia would dissect every word I said. Sheesh!


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## macka (Oct 26, 2008)

Being from OZ,I shudder each time I see this topic,from Goldtiger.
Talk about going around in circles.She has changed her story that many times
it giddy.


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## goldtiger (May 8, 2011)

I came here to make friends and learn about pigeons, not to argue. I want to thank all the lovely people who are helping me to learn more about pigeons, I really appreciate it. And I don't want to talk to the other few negative people who are abusing me on this same forum

I came here to learn and that is what I am doing and I am very grateful indeed to thekind people who are teaching me and helping me

To the kind peoplw who have been helping me, I was just wondering what you think would be the best brand of probiotic I should give my pigeon when he has finished his medication

Thanks heaps for your time, I do appreciate it a lot


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

goldtiger said:


> I came here to make friends and learn about pigeons, not to argue. I want to thank all the lovely people who are helping me to learn more about pigeons, I really appreciate it. And I don't want to talk to the other few negative people who are abusing me on this same forum
> 
> I came here to learn and that is what I am doing and I am very grateful indeed to thekind people who are teaching me and helping me
> 
> ...



I don't think that anyone here has been abusive to you. A couple of times it has been pointed out that you have changed stories a few times. I don't think it is the fault of the people on here who are trying to help, or who are following this thread if there is confusion. It would have been a lot simpler and much clearer if you had just come on and been open and honest. It's easier to help if people know what is really going on. When you tell half stories, and change stories, it is confusing. Then also people are going to wonder why you didn't just tell the truth to begin with. It's like lying, and people don't like being lied to. You want help, but it goes both ways. ON another forum, you said that you needed to treat the "feral flock", but that they don't always drink there, but they do eat there. So of course, some were trying to help by means of treating in the feed, rather than in the water. Now you're saying you own them. Which is it, and why keep changing stories? Then you said you left the bird at the first vet. In the other forum, you said you left him for a week at a bird sitting place who happen to have a vet there. When questioned about that, you admitted that you hadn't actually left him at the vet, but he had stayed at the bird sitting place. When asked by a member who the vet was that you had taken him to, you evaded that question, and still have not answered her. So who was the original vet? Can you answer that question? It should be a simple thing to do. And why do you keep changing the story? I don't understand why you can't just be straight, and apparently there are others who do not understand either. But I don't think it abusive to want to know why things keep changing.


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## goldtiger (May 8, 2011)

I appreciate the people who are helping me. Could you kinldy let me know what is the best brand of probiotics I should give my bird?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

goldtiger said:


> I appreciate the people who are helping me. Could you kinldy let me know what is the best brand of probiotics I should give my bird?




You know Christina...you really need to ask the vet, if you have one.


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## goldtiger (May 8, 2011)

Yes I do ask the vet but I want to see what brand you all recomend as the best, as most vets only sell one brand


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

goldtiger said:


> Yes I do ask the vet but I want to see what brand you all recomend as the best, as most vets only sell one brand


Your vet was correct about the dose of ronivet although you questioned him choosing to ask us all the while denying the pigeons the medicine they need.
I do think that since the vet has a degree in veterinary medicine, has been treating birds, he has recommended a brand of probiotics that works as well as any another and you should go with that.
I'm not understanding the indecisiveness on your part and asking the same questions over and over on multiple forums. I don't understand what purpose it serves or how it is helping the pigeons. I question if you are trying to play us and if so...why.


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## goldtiger (May 8, 2011)

I am just trying to get as much information as I can to help my pigeon. I am asking on different forums because I want to get as much information as I can to help my pigeon who I love.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Christina, can you give us the name of the vet who you originally brought your bird to? It would be very helpful for us to know what vets will treat pigeons In Australia. That information could help others who may need a vet but don't know where they can go. We try to steer people in the direction of someone who can help when they need it. So the information you can give us could make a very big difference in helping someone else.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Jaysen said:


> I have a quick question for the Aussies: Aren't you breaking the laws treating a feral flock like this? Granted the law may stink and be morally void, but you are open to prosecution if you are...


Hi Jaysen,

The problem with any laws regarding feral animal welfare in Australia is they are not generally enforced by the police. So in order to be effective, they have to appeal to the logic and ethics of wildlife carers who find themselves in the position of deciding whether to let them suffer, or help them..

I think what mostly happens here in Australia is wildlife carers with a license usually can only have 20 critters in their care, and its rare for them to be at less than maximum capacity. So when presented with a needy feral animal, they typically choose to kill it to make room for native animals. The law facilitates these kinds of decisions-maybe reduces the guilt- without it ever actually being enforced as a law. The same goes for Vets.

My own attitude, however, is that the main flaw in our feral animal law is that it overlooks the fact that white people are feral animals here too. We are more destructive than any other animal we've introduced as our companions. maybe a billion fold?. And yet we are entitled to basic medical care in this country. Our introduced companions are too IMO. I feel that we are responsible for them and should care for them, since we took them from their home countries without giving them a choice.

Also, amongst wildlife carers I've spoken to personally here in Australia, pigeons are not regarded as an invasive species. They pretty much depend on human care , buildings, and our rubbish. Without them they die, as opposed to compete with native species for food and habitat sites.


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## Teresa (Jul 10, 2005)

Thank you for clarifying the situation in Australia, Bella.
I like your comment about human ferals having basic rights, and I hope to see the day when feral pigeons are granted rights too.


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## bundyray (Nov 7, 2009)

there's a vet in Melbourne who also races pigeons here's the link to his site http://www.auspigeonco.com.au/


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