# Rentals, Landlords & Aviaries



## valeri (Sep 6, 2009)

Do many of you here rent your homes or apartments? And if so, were you able to find landlords who allowed you to build an outside space for your birds?

My husband and I will probably have to move. We're not in the best position to move, frankly. But we're also not having any success in getting friends to temporarily take care of our two pij -- until we can buy a place (probably in a year or so). It's a tall order. We can't blame them. But living in our one-bedroom with the pigeons taking up about 1/4 of that space isn't the ideal situation -- as you might imagine.

We can't buy right away but were hoping to hear some positive outcomes from people who were able to find compassionate landlords and nice rentals -- where an outdoor aviary build was possible.


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## bundyray (Nov 7, 2009)

suspended Aviaries can be great pack em up and take them with you whereever you go


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## jameswaller (Nov 4, 2008)

*landlords/renting*



valeri said:


> Do many of you here rent your homes or apartments? And if so, were you able to find landlords who allowed you to build an outside space for your birds?
> 
> My husband and I will probably have to move. We're not in the best position to move, frankly. But we're also not having any success in getting friends to temporarily take care of our two pij -- until we can buy a place (probably in a year or so). It's a tall order. We can't blame them. But living in our one-bedroom with the pigeons taking up about 1/4 of that space isn't the ideal situation -- as you might imagine.
> 
> We can't buy right away but were hoping to hear some positive outcomes from people who were able to find compassionate landlords and nice rentals -- where an outdoor aviary build was possible.


landlords have rules,they like to push,,it is very unlikely raising any animals on their turf will interest them ,quite the-opposite effect...even cities have-code enforement officals,or housing areas have covenants,,i am fortunate to do what i do ,raising exotics in the city,,so i empathize with your situation,,where ever you decide to move check out the laws before hand..sincerely james waller


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## Kailey lane (Jun 8, 2009)

Well i dont have an outdoor setup but i do rent a house.My landlord even tho he is not the nicest(well down right mean!) ,didnt care at th least that i have my indoor pij,we have a 3 bedroom and she free flys in one of them.i think the outdoor thing would scare landlords becuse of how big something like that is or can be and there are codes and such that need to be followed.Id say your best bet is to rent a house and keep them indoors with you ,it wont be that crouded if you get more than a 1 bedroom good luck


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I was looking to rent a house for months now and couldn't find anything that allowed more than one cat or dog and maybe finches for birds. I did find one but when he heard that I have pigeons besides that he wanted me to keep them on the porch, that was fine with me, then he wanted 200 more on the rent. And when I told him I have cats too, he said no. Fine with me, who wants a landlord like this anyways.
I found another house, the landlady was very nice and said as long as the place is clean she doesn't mind what I keep, but this house is wayyyyy far from where I work. 
I ended my search yesterday, luckily mine and my friend's prayers payed off, I got the downpayment money and now I am looking to buy a home.
If you have only one pigeon and rent more than one bedroom you can keep him indoors. Keep him in a large cage and let him for a few hours out each day and he will be fine.
Good luck, there has to be some place for you out there I am sure you will find it.

Reti


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

If it were me, I would get one of these cages and set it up in the living room. Two pigeons don't take up that much room.

http://futurepets.com/cgi-bin/FULLPRES.exe?PARTNUM=GC79000&LARGEVIEW=ON

Its large enough that if you can't let them out regularly they still have plenty of room to move around.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

valeri said:


> Do many of you here rent your homes or apartments? And if so, were you able to find landlords who allowed you to build an outside space for your birds?
> 
> My husband and I will probably have to move. We're not in the best position to move, frankly. But we're also not having any success in getting friends to temporarily take care of our two pij -- until we can buy a place (probably in a year or so). It's a tall order. We can't blame them. But living in our one-bedroom with the pigeons taking up about 1/4 of that space isn't the ideal situation -- as you might imagine.
> 
> We can't buy right away but were hoping to hear some positive outcomes from people who were able to find compassionate landlords and nice rentals -- where an outdoor aviary build was possible.


so you will have to move? or are you unable to move? me confused.

I would say if you can't find anything to buy, then keep looking for a more private place to rent and make a moveable portable aviary so you can take it down when you leave for your own home. Or if you just can not deal with the birds in your small space any longer, try to find them a permanant home outside of your circle of friends and family.


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## sesamestick (Dec 4, 2008)

Msfreebird said:


> If it were me, I would get one of these cages and set it up in the living room. Two pigeons don't take up that much room.
> 
> http://futurepets.com/cgi-bin/FULLPRES.exe?PARTNUM=GC79000&LARGEVIEW=ON
> 
> Its large enough that if you can't let them out regularly they still have plenty of room to move around.


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I have used these cages for birds from finches to lg parrots.... the best thing about them is they collapse & fold away. Gen'l Cage & Midwest Cages makes them in several bar spaces... from half inch & up. They are on 5 rollers & move with the gentle touch. very easy to clean & with perches instead of platforms...very bird friendly. I simply rolled them in front of an open window to give them sunshine in the warm weather thru the screens. Most supply houses sell them for less than $200.


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## valeri (Sep 6, 2009)

Right now, as some of you guys know, we have given our two rescued pigeons our dining room/office -- in a one-bedroom apartment. They have two large, wire dog crates pushed together to make one large cage -- which works well. They fly free in the room during the day. You can see pics in my profile if you're wondering what that dog-crate setup looks like. 

(I learned after rescuing the birds that I have allergies to pigeons. All that means it that our viable living space shrank a bit when we gave them their own dedicated room. It's okay. We got ourselves into it and our doing our best.)

But . . . we are thinking that since we haven't been able to find them a beautiful aviary home, we will have to move later this year to a place where we can give them some dedicated space while still having enough room for ourselves. 

At this very moment, we don't have the funds to finance a big move (we have huge family medical bills we've been paying off). But by late summer/fall, it should be a different story. I was actually hoping to hear some positive stories of people who've been able to find rentals and compassionate landlords who allow pigeons (and one cat). Or -- how any renters here have managed their own situations. So thanks very much for the feedback. It helps!

(We did, indeed, look beyond friends and family for homes. We volunteer at a wildlife hospital and contacted everyone we can think of connected to our animal world, looking for a beautiful aviary out there for them. But no luck so far. Admittedly, we were being picky about potential homes, because we do care for them very much. We had three offers, two looked just awful and dirty, and one was highly suspicious in terms of what they might have done with our pigeons. And we couldn't conceive of sending our beautiful birds off to a bad fate. Ever.)


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

It"s hard Valeri being in a small space and having allergies to birds and loving the birds at the same time and you know you need to find a way to move them outside which will increase your quality of life as well as theirs because this type of tightness in living does have an impact and you love your pets. I also have a small house but I own it-still paying on it --but I own it. When you own your own home you really don't have to live like some landlords expect you to live and can within good sense do what you want. For now I would get a air cleaner--one of those big round things with filters- and I know you air out the room everyday but in my case it really affects my eyes and makes me tear when they are in the house and I have three in right now that live in the loft that I built in the garage and yard and I can't wait for them to be outside in the loft again. Pigeons you really need to keep up with every day and change and air and it gets dusty from their powder when they are in the home--any bird in the home--creats a certain amount of dust and debree (spelling) and I never wanted one in my house for this reason and what do I have 6 Diamond Doves I did not want- and my one bedroom has become a infirmatory for sick birds....I sympathize with you---I have a one bedroom house and I am sleeping in the living room---and someday I will maybe get a larger home---all because I love my birds....Dear Friend---talk to people about buying your own home and if you can it is a good investment (maybe in the future)- You can buy cheaper than rent and you can do what you wish within commonsense and good judgement...I understand and I truely sympathized but at the same time I am so so glad those birds have you. c.hert


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## valeri (Sep 6, 2009)

c. hert -- sound advice and a wonderfully compassionate response! Thank you! This thread has actually inspired us to look into ways of acquiring that down payment faster for a purchase. I think we'll just have to own, and will have to put up with our current situation until that time we can plunk down some cash and get our own space. We'll put it out there that it happens sooner than later. And down the road, I'll thank the pigeons for inspiring us of our rut and into a new and better life. 

(We are very lucky indeed, that we invested in an exceptional HEPA air cleaner and HEPA vacuum when we first moved into this place. They've been lifesavers since we got the birds! Can't even imagine our lives without those devices and am utterly grateful the Swiss and Germans had the wherewithal to put these together. )


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

You are not kidding about air cleaners and vacuums with filters. Pigeons have inspired a lot of people to do thing differently in their lives for some reason in our hearts we know their life styles are good and proper somehow even if we can't put our finger on it--thats the beginning of respect for them--then we are hooked---Thanks for the reply.c.hert


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Reti said:


> I was looking to rent a house for months now and couldn't find anything that allowed more than one cat or dog and maybe finches for birds. I did find one but when he heard that I have pigeons besides that he wanted me to keep them on the porch, that was fine with me, then he wanted 200 more on the rent. And when I told him I have cats too, he said no. Fine with me, who wants a landlord like this anyways.
> I found another house, the landlady was very nice and said as long as the place is clean she doesn't mind what I keep, but this house is wayyyyy far from where I work.
> I* ended my search yesterday, luckily mine and my friend's prayers payed off, I got the downpayment money and now I am looking to buy a home.*If you have only one pigeon and rent more than one bedroom you can keep him indoors. Keep him in a large cage and let him for a few hours out each day and he will be fine.
> Good luck, there has to be some place for you out there I am sure you will find it.
> ...



Reti..that's wonderful news!


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

Valeri, I didn't always have trouble renting with birds, and that was when I had a dozen or more. One time I was lucky and posted a Housing Wanted ad on Craigslist, describing myself and my pets, and someone contacted me who loved animals and rented a house to me. Two apartments allowed us to have a small wire aviary out in the tiny backyard. 

With just the two that you have, you could easily make a small aviary or similar in even a small backyard. With the pair that I have that live inside now, they go out during nice weather into a large rabbit hutch for part of the day, part of it in their indoor cage, and a bit out in the room to walk around (neither fly). 

Some people use the words "birds" or "doves" or even "rock doves" instead of "pigeons" but that's up to you. Sometimes it helps with the neighbors if they think you have "doves" as they are for some reason socially acceptable birds.  

I think maybe you are worrying a bit too much about how much room they are getting. The cages you have provided are ample room, much larger than most indoor pigeons have, and if they get an hour a day out to fly around, that's great. We always say to provide as much room as possible but there's only so much room they can use. There's no reason for you to be forced out of house and home just to spoil some pigeons!  You can put a nice cage (their same one) outside during nice weather if you like and until you can move later this year, that will be just fine, trust me. I have lived with pigeons in apartments for many years before I lived here in a house where they're welcome. 


And Reti, I'm so glad to hear about the house!!!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I would think there would be land lords out there who wouldn't mind you putting up a small aviary. The house next to me rents, and everyone has dogs. One guy has about 16 snakes! I've had terrible luck with people who own cats in our apartment. I can't imagine why anyone would object to a couple of little pijjies in an aviary. Unless the town ordinances wouldn't allow it. I wouldn't think an understanding landlord would be all that hard to find.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I say if your going to make the move, buy...go for it! buying is an investment...renting is money out the window and filling someone else's pockets, not your own. I would rather drive an hour to work from my own place than pay just as much per month for rent in the city...but that is just me and worth it to me.. even if it was an acre of land with a mobile home, you can always build a small house later on it, if your finaces improve.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

valeri said:


> Do many of you here rent your homes or apartments? And if so, *were you able to find landlords who allowed you to build an outside space for your birds?*


Hi Valeri,
I would suggest you contact your local city department and request a copy of their statutes. This will give you an idea on what is allowed to be housed outside. Even if a landlord/lady allows birds to be kept outside, the city may have stipulations.

I've read too many times here where someone has moved to a particular area/neighborhood, acquired birds only to find themselves in dire straights when the city stepped in and informed them they weren't following the guidelines. 

Doing some investigating may save a lot of heartache later.  

Cindy


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## valeri (Sep 6, 2009)

Thanks, AZWhitefeather. Good advice. We have, in fact, looked into the statutes in all of the places we're considering moving, and won't move anywhere where backyard birds/poultry are not allowed. It's been a bit tricky finding out where pigeons fit into the mix. Most people are inquiring about chickens. If we could find a compassionate landlord, we'd be okay with a sun room or extra room that gave the birds some outdoor air and sun, even if it wasn't in the backyard. But we will definitely need more space because it's important to us that the birds get enough fly time. And it's critical for me to not be in their space all day, or I get quite ill. Separate room is fine. Even though we're cramped right now, I feel so much better physically removed from our two lovelies. A real shame. 

Thanks, Spirit Wings. We have always known that buying is a better investment. Unfortunately for us (no one else's fault) we fell into a lot of medical bills in our lives, and the downpayment has been a bear to accumulate. But we're working on it.


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## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

Hi Valeri,
I keep my doves in an enclosed porch, and minimal dust gets into the house. It's an option to consider when looking for a place...

Also - I wanted to point out that my city does not allow chickens or other poultry, but pigeons are allowed. I just needed to get a permit, which was pretty easy and relatively inexpensive. So there are cities where the distinction is made between pigeons and chickens.

Good luck!


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## Brummie (Feb 16, 2009)

Well, I'm a "landlord"...still sound's like some kind of medievel thing!
I won't let my tenant to have cat's or dog's, but bird's I'm totaly okay with.
I'm a little bias when it comes to bird's.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

valeri said:


> Thanks, AZWhitefeather. Good advice. We have, in fact, looked into the statutes in all of the places we're considering moving, and won't move anywhere where backyard birds/poultry are not allowed. It's been a bit tricky finding out where pigeons fit into the mix. Most people are inquiring about chickens. If we could find a compassionate landlord, we'd be okay with a sun room or extra room that gave the birds some outdoor air and sun, even if it wasn't in the backyard. But we will definitely need more space because it's important to us that the birds get enough fly time. And it's critical for me to not be in their space all day, or I get quite ill. Separate room is fine. Even though we're cramped right now, I feel so much better physically removed from our two lovelies. A real shame.
> 
> Thanks, Spirit Wings. We have always known that buying is a better investment. Unfortunately for us (no one else's fault) we fell into a lot of medical bills in our lives, and the downpayment has been a bear to accumulate. But we're working on it.


Honey, haven't you heard of a "no cost loan",(not really no cost, but) the fees and downpayments are all rolled in the loan, sure you have to pay interest on it, but if someone does not have the up front funds, it works... you would be suprised what you can get for 1000 dollars a month,,,which is about the same as an apartment, if not less.


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## valeri (Sep 6, 2009)

Thanks, Spirit Wings, for this note. We will definitely revisit that option.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

spirit wings said:


> Honey, haven't you heard of a "no cost loan",(not really no cost, but) the fees and downpayments are all rolled in the loan, sure you have to pay interest on it, but if someone does not have the up front funds, it works... you would be suprised what you can get for 1000 dollars a month,,,which is about the same as an apartment, if not less.


I was going to mention that, but I assumed they already checked it out 
There are other options too - Where there are so many distressed properties on the market right now. "Creative offer". Have it written in the purchase and sale agreement that the "seller" pays your closing costs. If you find a property that has been significantly reduced (because of the bad market!), offer a little more than the asking price - to cover your down payment. The amount "over" the asking price is "on paper". You need to find a good agent that knows how to write a creative contract. No money out of your pocket!


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I looked into the no cost loan for the longest time, asked several mortgage brokers and realtors, at least here in Fl it doesn't apply. Maybe in your state it does, you should definately look into it.
You can get away with not paying the closing costs if the property is not bank owned and that would save you some good money.

Reti


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

i have had to move a few times over the years and if your completely honest with your perspective landlord there shouldn't be a problem.
when i was looking i told them what i do before i even bother to look at the place i'm interested in and it hasn't been a problem at all.
i wouldn't think 2 pigeons would be a problem at all most places that don't want cats or dogs sometimes don't mind birds, especially if they are a relatively quiet birds like a pigeons, (as in not obnoxiously loud parrots like i have).
btw you may want to call them doves instead of pigeons technically that's what they are anyways!


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Reti said:


> I looked into the no cost loan for the longest time, asked several mortgage brokers and realtors, at least here in Fl it doesn't apply. Maybe in your state it does, you should definately look into it.
> You can get away with not paying the closing costs if the property is not bank owned and that would save you some good money.
> 
> Reti


there are lending companies all over the US, they do not have to be in the state you live. just went through a "no cost" refine... just have to shop for the best deal.


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## valeri (Sep 6, 2009)

Msfreebird said:


> I was going to mention that, but I assumed they already checked it out


Thank you. We have looked into various financing options, but need to explore it more thoroughly. We talked with a real estate attorney (who just happens to be a friend) and he didn't mention the idea of increasing the price to account for the down payment. So thank you. Your comments have inspired us to do just that. Our problem, because of the medical bills, has been (as you know) a nest egg swallowed up by lost claims -- and a higher than ideal debt-to-income ratio as a result. It reduces the possibilities, according to the people with whom we've consulted. But we'll keep checking until we get better answers. We realize that there are ways to finance at higher interest rates, even in our situation. We always thought we would have paid off the bills with a clean slate before we even had to worry about a purchase. The pigeons have just accelerated our plans and caused us to rethink our original timeline.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

valeri said:


> Thank you. We have looked into various financing options, but need to explore it more thoroughly. We talked with a real estate attorney (who just happens to be a friend) and he didn't mention the idea of increasing the price to account for the down payment. So thank you. Your comments have inspired us to do just that. Our problem, because of the medical bills, has been (as you know) a nest egg swallowed up by lost claims -- and a higher than ideal debt-to-income ratio as a result. It reduces the possibilities, according to the people with whom we've consulted. But we'll keep checking until we get better answers. We realize that there are ways to finance at higher interest rates, even in our situation. We always thought we would have paid off the bills with a clean slate before we even had to worry about a purchase. The pigeons have just accelerated our plans and caused us to rethink our original timeline.


Any $ you have extra, I would put on your medical bills to get your debt ratio down.
Another option would be to find an  empty house that is for sale (the seller already has another house), and see if they would be willing to let you rent it for a period of time (rent with option to buy) until you get your medical bills down so that your financing would be approved. This would all be written into a purchase and sale agreement. So theoretically, the house would be "yours", but the closing date would be extended to about 1 year later - or whatever time frame you request and they agree to.
The real estate market is soooo bad, that sellers are a little more willing to bend. If you rent with option to buy, at least the seller is getting a monthly check instead of sitting on an empty house waiting for it to sell. ---and don't forget about that "government buyers rebate $" I think it's $7,000. now?


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Msfreebird said:


> Any $ you have extra, I would put on your medical bills to get your debt ratio down.
> Another option would be to find an  empty house that is for sale (the seller already has another house), and see if they would be willing to let you rent it for a period of time (rent with option to buy) until you get your medical bills down so that your financing would be approved. This would all be written into a purchase and sale agreement. So theoretically, the house would be "yours", but the closing date would be extended to about 1 year later - or whatever time frame you request and they agree to.
> The real estate market is soooo bad, that sellers are a little more willing to bend. If you rent with option to buy, at least the seller is getting a monthly check instead of sitting on an empty house waiting for it to sell. ---and don't forget about that "government buyers rebate $" I think it's $7,000. now?



That is the best option, I looked into it and found several rent to buy homes. 
The rebate is 8,000 and they extended it to June.

Reti


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