# Black



## TwinTurboPigeon (Jan 22, 2013)

What color/pattern combination makes "full black" colored offsprings?


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## sev3ns0uls (Jul 2, 2011)

I think recessive red must be involve in it. 

Maybe other expert will help out.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Recessive red has nothing to do with it..


Black is simply a blue based bird with the spread gene. The spread gene takes the colour of the birds tail bar and "spreads" it across the entire bird. A blue bird has a black tail bar regardless of pattern, therefore any blue bird with spread, becomes black.


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

NZ Pigeon said:


> Recessive red has nothing to do with it..
> 
> 
> Black is simply a blue based bird with the spread gene. The spread gene takes the colour of the birds tail bar and "spreads" it across the entire bird. A blue bird has a black tail bar regardless of pattern, therefore any blue bird with spread, becomes black.


That is one way to imagine it. The reality though as to why the gene is called "spread" is because the the pigment is spread out in the tail and pattern area absorbing lighting where in other areas it's clumped together causing a blue coloring.

Here's a quote from Frank Mosca found on his website

http://www.angelfire.com/ga3/pigeongenetics/Spread.html


> Almost sixty years ago, W.F. Hollander noted that the pigment which provides the coloring matter in our birds’ plumage, came in two different arrangements. In the bars, pigment was spread out. In the rest of the feather it was clumped.
> You can imagine this pigment as a batch of spaghetti. In the area of the bars, the spaghetti is laid out regularly and spaced into individual strands. In the rest of the feather, it’s gathered together into small bundles. Each bundle is then laid in a regular arrangement. The color we see in any individual feather is a result of light hitting that feather and bouncing back to our retina. Where the pigment is spread out (the bars) almost all the light is absorbed and very little of it bounces back to our eye. We see black. Where the pigment is clumped, more light is bounced back to us and we see a blue-gray color. This pigment arrangement is the normal situation in the wild-type (blue bar) pigeon. Spread, however, is a mutation which upsets this normal arrangement. Somehow, it opens up the clumped pigment bundles and places the individual strands of pigment throughout the whole feather. What was once the normal situation only in the bars is now the situation throughout all the feathers. In fact, you can think of Spread as being a mutation which takes the tail bar color and paints it over the whole pigeon. Want to know what color bird you’re likely to get if you add Spread to it? It’s easy to imagine.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Logan, thanks for your clarification, I myself understand the difference between spread and clumped pigment, However for intellectual purposes, I and others ( Ron Huntley I believe) use this definition to help beginners understand how the spread gene affects the phenotype of the bird.

For sure, If one wants to learn more in depth they will realise this definition is not entirely correct, but it helps none the less

At the end of the day, The bars and the tail bar on a blue based bird are spread, The spread gene, spreads the entire birds pigment out and removes, if you like all the clumped pigment. So In some ways, The spread gene does take the colour of the tail bar and spread it across the entire bird causing the birds entire pigment to be "spread"


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

I never said what you said was wrong  it is one way to imagine it. What I quoted at the end says that also.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Sorry, I was just discussing your post, Didn't mean to sound argumentative. 

I hate internet talk as it doesn't have tone, I was actually being legitimate with the first part of my first sentence thanking your clarification.


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## TwinTurboPigeon (Jan 22, 2013)

How can one acquire a "spread gene" pigeon? I have blue bars but I'm not sure about the spread type pigeon.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

I thought I had seen plain blacks in your loft, You have lavenders yes???? Self Browns????


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## TwinTurboPigeon (Jan 22, 2013)

NZ Pigeon said:


> I thought I had seen plain blacks in your loft, You have lavenders yes???? Self Browns????


I have 1 black, 2 yellows and maybe 4 browns.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Spread is dominant so you'll have to get a spread bird to get it in your loft.


Also, I prefer to use the same description as NZ Pigeon, mostly because of the spread ash-red being a light ashy color. Of course it can be hard to cover up the pattern, but good ones are lightly colored with minimal red leakage. If I told people it was the color of the bars spread over the bird, they would probably think a spread ash-red is a recessive red.


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## TwinTurboPigeon (Jan 22, 2013)

MaryOfExeter said:


> Spread is dominant so you'll have to get a spread bird to get it in your loft.
> 
> 
> Also, I prefer to use the same description as NZ Pigeon, mostly because of the spread ash-red being a light ashy color. Of course it can be hard to cover up the pattern, but good ones are lightly colored with minimal red leakage. If I told people it was the color of the bars spread over the bird, they would probably think a spread ash-red is a recessive red.


Alrighty. Is that why there are different shades of black?


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Different shades have to do with the presence of darkening modifiers - dirty, smokey, and sooty - and also that pattern the bird is "under" the spread. Heavy t-pattern birds typically have a more smooth color whereas barred birds you may be able to distinguish the bars from the rest of the color. Also, things like grease quills and iridescence bring out the beetle sheen of some breeds and make them nice and shiny.


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