# Need help



## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

Sorry dont know were to post this at all HELP!!!!
I need help. We had ppl come over today and they sayed I cant have my loft of pigeons. So I need help if I were to let the babies out would they come back? There just mix breeds they have lived in the loft there howl lives. Or if thats not a good idea I need homes for a few pigeons.     
What do I do? I'll be talking to the lady in a few days so what more info I can get but I really need help here plz.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

vegeta2802 said:


> Sorry dont know were to post this at all HELP!!!!
> I need help. We had ppl come over today and they sayed I cant have my loft of pigeons. So I need help if I were to let the babies out would they come back? There just mix breeds they have lived in the loft there howl lives. Or if thats not a good idea I need homes for a few pigeons.
> What do I do? I'll be talking to the lady in a few days so what more info I can get but I really need help here plz.


What people? 
No, you can't just turn them loose. That would be a death sentence.


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

Lovebirds said:


> What people?
> No, you can't just turn them loose. That would be a death sentence.


I was just thinking maybe they would stay around and free fly. But there not the type of pigeons that you let free fly so I was not sure. I was still thinging that maybe just maybe the babies that were in the loft from day one could free fly. The loft is not going to be taken down or anything and the older pigeons are not going to be out there. But if they cant free fly cuz the type they are I well not let them out. There my babies and I do not want them to fly away or get hurt.

I dont know people for the city, I think something like that.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

What exactly did they say? Do you have a certain time to get rid of the birds? I looked at some of your pictures. You definitely can't let the birds fly free. They aren't flying breeds...........not all of them.


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

I know over half are feral mixs so... 
Um... They just sayed that we cant have them and I guess we have 10 days for now then she is going to tell the animel ppl it sounds like and well have to see what they say wither is I need to find homes for half or what.


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## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

check out this thread.
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f5/my...-up-his-pigeons-18029.html?highlight=neighbor


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## Dezirrae (Oct 6, 2007)

Michelle,

Sounds kind of fishy to me... these people weren't invited by you to your house then were they? Did they leave any paperwork with you? I wouldn't get rid of any birds until you have something in writing showing why you aren't allowed to have the birds! I hate when people try to take advantage of others I'd suggest calling your town's government office tomorrow - see if you can find out what the local laws are about owning pigeons.

What town do you live in - I'd be happy to help you with any research I can do online.

Hold onto your babies!!


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

philodice said:


> check out this thread.
> http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f5/my...-up-his-pigeons-18029.html?highlight=neighbor


Thanks for the link I am reading over it now.


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

Dezirrae said:


> Michelle,
> 
> Sounds kind of fishy to me... these people weren't invited by you to your house then were they? Did they leave any paperwork with you? I wouldn't get rid of any birds until you have something in writing showing why you aren't allowed to have the birds! I hate when people try to take advantage of others I'd suggest calling your town's government office tomorrow - see if you can find out what the local laws are about owning pigeons.
> 
> ...


No they came over why'll we were at school cuz the new ppl behind us sayed rats were coming from or yard to theres. We and or nambers/friends next to us also got a sitation for having a pile of wood in the yard. Why'll she was looking at our yard she saw the lofts. We have the one big one 10feet by 5feet, one 8feet by 4feet, and a few hutchs all of them are off the ground on bricks. They only lift the papers for the "messing yard". The lady that was over here was not animal cotroll but she sayed when the animal cotroll lady gets back from her brake she is going to tell her she says. Madison Heights, MI. I have looked online when I fond my first baby and did not find anything saying I could not have pigeons. But I would be very happy if you would not mine looking up what ever you can find for me. Thank You. All I know is were not aloud to have "game animals" pigeons are not game animals by what I know. We cant have farm animals and are only aloud to have 3 dogs/cats and a time but I have not seen a thing saying we cant have 100 animals other then the 3 dogs/cats so by what I know we can have all the animals we have now. All of my birds and in good health, Not to fat I dont think . But more of you seen alot of pictures they get what they want. Again Thank You for the help.


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## Grim (Jul 28, 2007)

Just keep the lofts clean. The birds I am sure would have to be causing a nuisance to be removed or reduced.

Just be polite but don't let someone walk all over you or lie to you. Relax get the facts right and go from there.


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Hi Vegeta............When you say ppl I assume you mean people. This sounds like a nasty neighbor who is just trying to scare you into getting rid of your pigeons.

Keep your loft clean. DON'T DO ANYTHING in the way of turning your birds loose or giving them away.

Until you have an official notice from the city or county there is nothing this neighbor can do to you other than just complain. MAKE SURE YOU KEEP THE LOFT AND THE BACKYARD CLEAN!!!! because if there are no restrictions on you keeping your pigeons the only thing that is left is the Board of Health Dept. If they feel that the pigeons are causing any kind of health hazard they do have the authority to force you to remove the pigeons.

I'm so sorry that you are going through this.


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

OK thank you. Sorry if I did get ahead of everthing the city lady just got my mom and I kind of well mad/sad I guess you would say we dont want to have to get read of our babies. And she sayed that we cant have them and that she was telling the animal control lady on us when she got back from her vacation. I made sure to make my loft REALLY REALLY clean this time just so she cant say anything. I also did not give them there bath so that she cant say a thing about the water on the floor.


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

Had this SAME FRUSTRATING thing happen to me awhile back. The neighbor called and made it sound like they had already talked to the city/county/animal control, etc. and I had to get rid of my pigeons. After I freaked out big time, people on here talked me down  enough so I could figure out some things. Don't let anyone scare you into getting rid of your pigeons. If animal control does come out and talk to you, go from there. Make sure your loft and yard are clean, of course. If the wood pile is causing troubles, I would schedule a clean-up and get it taken care of. 

The less reason for people to be nosing around in your yard, the better!!!

You can call your county offices and ask about your area, and the laws regarding animals. Don't give them your name, just ask anonymously. I found out I'm allowed to have 25 pigeons in my zone. So I found homes for some and then basically told my neighbor to, um, er, have a nice day. 

I hope it works out for you too!!


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

The city lady sayed our yard is cleand up nicely so she is done with that. But she showed us were it sayed we cant keep pigeons and I really think it dose not count pigeon. By what she showed us on her computer it say "people/binesses cant keep the following" and it gose in to saying that we can only keep "domestic animals dogs, cats, cage birds like parrots and small mammals". PIGEONS ARE DOMESTIC ANIMALS there not wild so it really dose not say we cant have pigeons. I am going to go print off the histery of pigeons for the animal lady they have been domestic sins befor some parrots. Anyone know a good website to get the info from? I know I could find one but if you know one plz let me know. here is the web-site the lady gave us to see were it says about the birds but I cant find it so PLZ PLZ if you have time try looking it up one the site.And I really would like any website you can find with the histery of pigeons. Also non of are neighbor conplaned about the pigeons so.... (just the rats they sayed "came from our yard" and the lady dose not think they came from our yard.) 
Also maybe if you guys can right stuff for me to print of saying that were good pets not durty, there just as durty as p the parrots if not less.

Here is the link http://www.madison-heights.org/

I'll post picture I just took for you guys when I get back.

P.S. the city lady sayed that maybe the animal lady my let me have the birds right I say prove them wrong. The city lady was but I dont know if the animal lady will be.


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

Here is a picture of my loft to day tell me if its clean or if I have to work on stuff.









Go here for more pictures and the inside pictures. These picture are from to day.

http://community.webshots.com/album/567418203LJfxYn


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

What do you guys think about this I fond it when looking for the history of pigeons. Its about pigeons and public health. It says pigeons are not bad .
You guys this this would help me keep my pigeons?

http://www.urbanwildlifesociety.org/zoonoses/ExprtsRePijZoonos.html


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## Grim (Jul 28, 2007)

Yes that will be helpful. I don't think there is much they can do. I also don't see why animal control would come out there has to be a violation or nuisance. So unless neighbors are complaining about the birds ruining their property with droppings or keeping them up all night with noise I don't see any violations. I personally would tell this city person to get a life.


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## Ivor (May 12, 2008)

If you have a friend or someone try to not be alone, and better if is someone older, and don't open the door to just anybody, make sure that they are from were they say and show the id, keep it clean, and don't pay attention to this people, I'm sure your neighbor is trying to intimidate here. keep us update.


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

The neighbor did not say a thing about the birds to the animal control or city people I know that for sure. The city lady sayed that we can not have pigeons were we live but if you read the law you can have ANY domestic bird and pigeons have been domestic for a long time. My mom is going to be with me when the animal control lady comes over and I am not going to let her in the loft or anywere that she dose not need to go. My lofts also have locks on the doors and the window has hardwear clot over it and you cant see thow the window if its not open. I got as much info on pigeons as I could find that says they are domestic I even have a world book and looked up pigeons it says in the book DOMESTIC PIGEONS so she can not say I cant have them cuz there not domestic as they have been domestic longer then some of the parrot family birds. I also am going to have there Droppings Analysis to show her they are not a health hazard. I always try to keep the loft clean and have been working even more on it now as I do not know when the lady will be comeing by. 

Grim my pigeons have never been out of the lofts to poo on neighbors homes and the sounds dont really get out of the loft at night. If that helps me out a bit


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

OK so to day there was a paper in the door it says I need to get read of my pigeons. I called the lady and left a massage saying that I would like to talk to her. By what it says I do not see why I can not keep them. What do you guys think???


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Michelle.........exactly what did the notice that was left on your door say. It must state some city/county statures that you are in voilation of. It would be good it you could tell us exactly what it say and exactly who it was from.


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

that a picture of it that I posted
But i blacked out our full address and full names.


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Michelle........I have looked through your albums and cannot find a picture of the notice.

Your have great birds.......beautiful.

But where is the picture of the notice???


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

here


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

UMMMMM.......aren't our pigeons "animals" AND "domestic"???? 

It says "...or other animals commonly classified as domestic".........


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

Lovebirds said:


> UMMMMM.......aren't our pigeons "animals" AND "domestic"????
> 
> It says "...or other animals commonly classified as domestic".........


thats almost word for word what im saying.

And what im going to ask her about tomorrow


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Hi Michelle.........I read the notice and it appears you are in violation of the Municipal Code. The code clearly states "house birds" are exempt. Your really have a problem here. 

Do you have a garage??? Maybe if you moved the loft into the garage they would be considered house birds, because technically the garage is part of your house...but that is really stretching it.

Your family could get in touch with a lawyer and have them fight a case for you, but that would cost many $$$$$$.

I feel so bad for you. They haven't given you much time. You only have until the 24th until they can come and issue your family a fine and God knows what else.

When you speak to the lady ask if you can have an extension before they take action.
Tell her you need more time to resolve this issue. What you really need is a variance from the town to allow you to keep your pigeons, but that takes time and is usually hard to get. Do you have a family member that can help you with all this??

Your birds are all so beautiful and I can see how much time and work you have put into raising and caring for them. I hope some of the other members might have some better ideas for you.

I am really so, so sorry you have to go through this.

Please keep us posted.


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Michelle.........Is there any way you could move the loft and attach it to the back or side of the house and have an entry into the loft from the house?? The ordance doesn't state how many house birds or what kind of birds you can have, only that they must be "House Birds" If the loft becomes part of the house then surely your birds would have to be classified as "House Birds".


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

lwerden said:


> Do you have a garage??? Maybe if you moved the loft into the garage they would be considered house birds, because technically the garage is part of your house...but that is really stretching it.


The way the lady told me I can not have them even if I moved them in the house. Hell if thats what I needed to do and I could keep them that way I'd give them my room. I really dont care if it means I could keep them. 




lwerden said:


> Your family could get in touch with a lawyer and have them fight a case for you, but that would cost many $$$$$$.


I'll do as much as I can and my dad sounds like he'll talk to them to, really cant go the lawyer way... But you got me thinking and now I'll have to ask my mom as she dose have a lawer thats a friend of a family member so...




lwerden said:


> I feel so bad for you. They haven't given you much time. You only have until the 24th until they can come and issue your family a fine and God knows what else.


I know how could I fond them homes in only that much time. 
They are not just "things" I can give to anyone. They need good careing homes. I'm not saying I'm not going to fight this as much as I can but...
#1 They are my babies and I have had them for some time so... 
#2 No one sayed one thing about them so there not bugging anyone. 
#3 And when I looked online I did not see one thing saying I could not have them so... 
#4 What would it hurt to let me keep them? Not like there hurting anyone. 

I would even let them keep a head cont, so they know I'm not adding more birds. I would maybe even get them saying I could only have and # of them but, loseing all my babies??? 



lwerden said:


> When you speak to the lady ask if you can have an extension before they take action.
> Tell her you need more time to resolve this issue. What you really need is a variance from the town to allow you to keep your pigeons, but that takes time and is usually hard to get. Do you have a family member that can help you with all this??


I'll ask for more time but... I want to know why I cant have my babies and if I could keep a few you know. But well try getting more time. 
What is a variance???
What do you mean by do I have a family member that can help? Like someone just older that would help or someone that lives somewere else? Is that what your talking about?




lwerden said:


> Your birds are all so beautiful and I can see how much time and work you have put into raising and caring for them. I hope some of the other members might have some better ideas for you.
> 
> I am really so, so sorry you have to go through this.
> 
> Please keep us posted.


Yea only you guys get how much time it takes feeding and watering them but most of the time its still fun so... And it seems like people dont get there just like kids and who would just give up there kids?


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

lwerden said:


> Michelle.........Is there any way you could move the loft and attach it to the back or side of the house and have an entry into the loft from the house?? The ordance doesn't state how many house birds or what kind of birds you can have, only that they must be "House Birds" If the loft becomes part of the house then surely your birds would have to be classified as "House Birds".


we would need a license to do that. We can not build or build on to a perment structure with out a license. Building the loft was ok as its not perment being on sinder blocks.


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Michelle............A Variance is an exception to the ordance. It doesn't change the ordance but exempts an individual who is granted the variance. To obtain one normally you have to go to the zoning board or commission and give good reasons for asking for the variance and then they take a vote on it. Usually if a lawyer pleads your case you have a better chance.

I don't know how the lady can tell you that you can't have them if you bring them in the house. The ordance does not state what kind of bird or how many you can have. It just says "House Birds". If you would actually bring them in and give them a room in the house I really think you would have a good case of winning that way. You would propably have to go to court in front of a judge and state your case, but it is the judges job to interpert the law. In this case the ordance in question, has no specifics and just states "House Birds". Unless there is another ordance that specifically states that pigeons are not allowed to be kept in the house, I believe the judge would have to rule in your favor.

I really wish I could do more to help you. I feel so bad for you.


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

lwerden said:


> Michelle............A Variance is an exception to the ordance. It doesn't change the ordance but exempts an individual who is granted the variance.  To obtain one normally you have to go to the zoning board or commission and give good reasons for asking for the variance and then they take a vote on it. Usually if a lawyer pleads your case you have a better chance.I don't know how the lady can tell you that you can't have them if you bring them in the house. The ordance does not state what kind of bird or how many you can have. It just says "House Birds". If you would actually bring them in and give them a room in the house I really think you would have a good case of winning that way. You would propably have to go to court in front of a judge and state your case, but it is the judges job to interpert the law. In this case the ordance in question, has no specifics and just states "House Birds". Unless there is another ordance that specifically states that pigeons are not allowed to be kept in the house, I believe the judge would have to rule in your favor.
> 
> I really wish I could do more to help you. I feel so bad for you.



Ok thank you I have my dad tell me what a variance was after I was done repliying to you but thank you. We got one of thows when we had a addition on your home as it was to close to our garage.

OK thank you I well keep that in mind and ask her everthing I can about the why I cants. 

THANK YOU!!!  
THANK YOU!!! for the help I'll let you know what she says when I talk to her. But I'm should the stuff you have told me well help me out with what to ask and what I can try doing.


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## Guest (Oct 18, 2008)

I do know in most states that pigeons arent considered fowl for one thing but you might want to ask why there are so many pigeon clubs in your state that are allowed to keep pigeons when you are not ? here is a list of pigeon clubs that are known and listed on the web so maybe if you contact them they could help you out in some way to keep your birds http://www.pigeonworld.org/club listing/Michigan.htm


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Michelle,

I've tried to catch up with this thread, so forgive me if what I'm going to say has already come up....

Is there any way that you can find out when this ordinance was passed with your town council? If you can prove that you have had your loft before this ordinance was passed, then you may be "grandfathered." This means that any people looking to keep pigeons in a loft on their property after the ordinance was passed and put into effect would not be able to do so......BUT, people who have already had pigeons and a loft already in existence before the ordinance was passed should be exempt from this rule.....i.e. "grandfathered."

Sorry you are going through this....good luck.

Linda


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

Lin Hansen said:


> Michelle,
> 
> I've tried to catch up with this thread, so forgive me if what I'm going to say has already come up....
> 
> ...


Hum... Right now by what i'm hearing that wont help me even if it was but... Also I have only had the loft for a year or maybe 2 years but for sure no more then 3 years. I also can not prove it or how long I have had the birds. Wish I could use the "grandfather." thing but... Not a bad idea tho so thank you.


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Michelle, go to your town, borough, or city hall...your municipal center.....and find out when this ordinance was passed. The ordinance that was on the paper that you posted here. This information is available to the public.

If you had your birds on your property BEFORE this ordinance was passed and put into effect, then basically, you should be grandfathered. It is worth checking into into.

Good luck,
Linda

PS As far as proof, do you have any paperwork on birds you have acquired (year purchased, etc.), family members or friendly neighbors that will vouch for you ( file an affadavit, etc.), as to when you acquired your birds and built your loft (receipts for materials used to build showing the year purchased)......don't give up.....please, first find out when this ordinance was passed and put into effect and then take it from there.


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

Lin Hansen said:


> Michelle, go to your town, borough, or city hall...your municipal center.....and find out when this ordinance was passed. The ordinance that was on the paper that you posted here. This information is available to the public.
> 
> If you had your birds on your property BEFORE this ordinance was passed and put into effect, then basically, you should be grandfathered. It is worth checking into into.
> 
> ...


Trust me in no way am I or will I give up.

I'll look in to it. I have been looking in to anything and everthing that comes up. Sorry if my post sounded other wise I didnt mean I would not look just that I was not sure it would do any good but you never know right? 
As far as papers on when I got the birds no I do not have any I do know one of the ladys I got them from but have not talked to her in a few years so... If the date the law was past was after I got my birds not sure it was tho=[ as the law dose not even say I could not have them i'll try to call her


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

vegeta2802 said:


> Trust me in no way am I or will I give up.
> 
> I'll look in to it. I have been looking in to anything and everthing that comes up. Sorry if my post sounded other wise I didnt mean I would not look just that I was not sure it would do any good but you never know right?


Nope, didn't sound that way at all.

Am sure you are doing the absolute best that you can.

Again, good luck to you.

Linda


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

Well the lady did not end up calling back so...
Monday were going to city hall and are going to try fighting this. So I would like to know what you guys think we should say. 
#1 thing I am saying is by what the paper says there is not one thing saying I can not have pigeons. What more should I say?


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## Guest (Oct 19, 2008)

you really should contact the clubs in that link I have listed and maybe they could help you look for loopholes in which to keep your birds as I would hate to see you lose them after having befriending your birds for so long now


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

LokotaLoft said:


> you really should contact the clubs in that link I have listed and maybe they could help you look for loopholes in which to keep your birds as I would hate to see you lose them after having befriending your birds for so long now


I well call them if I have to. But right now I do not see how it would help as there is no law saying I can not have pigeons so... On monday just my mom and I are going up to talk to them as there is not a law saying we can not have them. But if and when it comes to it I well call them and well get my friends and neighbors to come back me up to.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Michelle, I have to agree with LokotaLoft, that you should contact these clubs. They may have information that would help you in your meeting with them. I would rather be armed in advance, then wait to be shot at, to load my gun. You should get as much info. as you can before meeting with them.


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## corvid (Oct 16, 2008)

vegeta, I will not say if is clean or not, cause I may not know, how clean pigeon loft looks anyhow. I just went thru your flock pictures and I wanna say the are the most gorgeous looking birds I ever saw. I love those white spots on them a lot.

You know the more time I m spending on Pigeon-talk the more I get the feeling , how wonderful would be to start keeping pigeons. Good luck.


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

Jay3 said:


> Michelle, I have to agree with LokotaLoft, that you should contact these clubs. They may have information that would help you in your meeting with them. I would rather be armed in advance, then wait to be shot at, to load my gun. You should get as much info. as you can before meeting with them.


Were not going to a meeting yet were going to more aless find out who we need to talk to and set up a meeting with them. 

I well call the clubs tho I do not see how they can help, but it would not hurt thats for sure so I'll try calling a few most likely tomorrow. 

So far I got papers I printed off about pigeons and how long they have been pets and a world book saying that they are domestic. So just with that I should be able to keep them as the note the lady left sayed we can have domestic animals.


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

corvid said:


> vegeta, I will not say if is clean or not, cause I may not know, how clean pigeon loft looks anyhow. I just went thru your flock pictures and I wanna say the are the most gorgeous looking birds I ever saw. I love those white spots on them a lot.
> 
> You know the more time I m spending on Pigeon-talk the more I get the feeling , how wonderful would be to start keeping pigeons. Good luck.


Thank you for that. 

Good luck with your starting keeping pigeons there the best.  I love just sitting in my loft with my birds almost all of them will run over and try to sit on me at one time. Not to say how much fun it is just watching them.


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

OK so we got to talk to the lady today and she sayed we can keep the birds. We just can not have them out in the loft cuz the "rat proplem". lol but I can leave the loft up lol try telling me whats wrong with these people. My loft is off the groung and has mash and skreen around it. Yet I can let a dog house out side on the groung that they can go in and get dog hair out of. I think theres something odd about these people. The well not let us have cats out side but then they keep yelling about the rats, the cats would have ate if they let them out.

OK sorry about that it was off topice but just had to say some of it. 

To add on we may and this is just a may be moveing.


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Hi Michelle..........So glad you get to keep your birds. Where are you going to keep them now that they are not allowed outside in the loft?? Are you going to give them your room??? lol. 

So happy that this worked out for you.


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

lwerden said:


> Hi Michelle..........So glad you get to keep your birds. Where are you going to keep them now that they are not allowed outside in the loft?? Are you going to give them your room??? lol.
> 
> So happy that this worked out for you.


Yea there kind of getting my room but I still need to still live in my room to so... I also have brds in my room so...


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Well, congratulations on keeping your birds! Are you really going to share your room with them? Let us know how that works out. You said you might be moving. Maybe you will be able to have them there, if you do. Even if you had a closed in porch connected to the house, maybe they could be kept there. Well anyway, I certainly wish you luck.


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

Jay3 said:


> Well, congratulations on keeping your birds! Are you really going to share your room with them? Let us know how that works out. You said you might be moving. Maybe you will be able to have them there, if you do. Even if you had a closed in porch connected to the house, maybe they could be kept there. Well anyway, I certainly wish you luck.


Thank you we still do not think we can keep them all tho so... Yep I am going to share my room with about 20-30 of them, 15 are going in the back room and I'll still have to find homes for a few were thinking. A few of the ones going in my room have been in there before so...

Yea my dad really wants to move, i'm not really sure I want to but well see. The place he wants to move to the birds would get the basment with me. And I want to move out to a place with less people if we do move and my moms ok with that my dads like...... And were I want to move if we do I know we can have pigeons and a loft.  Also pigs and other animals. 

Thanks again


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## Pegasus (Feb 6, 2007)

*Loft looks tidy to me...*

I dont see much of a problem...I know somebody is just complaining about the pigeons even though they are not flying all over neighbors yard or roofs...There's always be someone in the neighborhood, well I got plenty of them around me but I know what's my right having them in my backyard, so heck with them...Keep us update on this situation okay...


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## vegeta2802 (Sep 24, 2006)

Pegasus said:


> I dont see much of a problem...I know somebody is just complaining about the pigeons even though they are not flying all over neighbors yard or roofs...There's always be someone in the neighborhood, well I got plenty of them around me but I know what's my right having them in my backyard, so heck with them...Keep us update on this situation okay...


I well Thanks 

I am going to go talk to the lady again after school I think. She sayed "house birds" have the stay in side cuz of the rat problem, and sayed I could not even put my cockatiels out side. Yet a dog can stay outside all year long if it has a dog house. Isnt that going againts what she just told me with the birds? 
DOGS
shelter = can stay outside all year
So would it be the same for birds? I mean the birds is even off the ground so rats cant sleep under it.
If I say we made it as a shed then modafined it for the birds would it be part of the house? Sheds would be part of the house like garages right?

When I told her the rats can not get in the loft she sayed they can eat through cement. OK Is off the ground. Like moveing a few pigeons well get read of the rats . On top of that I have not seen one rat it some time so...

Again sorry about that but thats what im going to talk to her about. Not that I well not brang my babies in if I have to just they like it outside in there loft thats what we made it for and it was about $300-$400 to make and shes saying I have to just let it sit there I can not have the birds in it cuz of the so called "rat problem" put I can leave it up is that not the same thing?

REALLY SORRY just getting really mad about this. Again thank you guys for all the help.


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## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

Ok here's something you can do, get a wheel barrow or two of sawdust and pour it all over the loft. It makes the loft look nice, easy to clean, plus its getting cold so they can get some heat. About the loft, can't really tell from the outside, but if you can take a picture of the inside that would be great.


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