# Have you lost a lot of young birds this year



## wildcat hunter (Jan 17, 2014)

Please add your experience with young birds this year; I'm curious.

I started YB season with about 27 birds, I have 8 left. The birds come from families that have flown well for years by other guys. They have won money for me and the handlers, got some top finishes at 500 and 600 mile races, they have done well.
I sent birds to 4 OLR's, 2 were in Texas. One loft lost half of the birds by race time, my bird never came back from the race. The other race did better but still lost a lot of birds - about 30. I finished 13th with the nest-mate of the one in the other loft. Both lofts started with about 120 birds. Another race in Wisconsin started with about 160 birds, only 6 were left at the last race. The last OLR race we are in had about 130 birds in it. Now there are 30 plus birds left. Not knocking OLR's at all. Birds in our combine have been lost at a serious rate too. We just flew the 300 this weekend, my friend sent 32, got 15 home. I have had birds since I was very young, never had this happen before. In fact, when I was still a young teenager my dad thought I had too many pigeons so he took the 75 miles away, thinking they would all get lost. The birds were "never" trained, just had open loft 24/7. They all came back ! My wife and I worked on a horse farm for 4 years, I had pigeons. When we decided to buy our own home I offered the birds for free in the local paper. One guy called and ( the birds were never trained, just open loft ) said he would take what was left if I took them 100 miles and let them go - they all came back ! This was in the 1960's and later in the 1970's.
So whats going on now ? Whats changed, the birds, the Earth, the atmosphere ?
The birds that did come home, do they have something the others do not have ? 
Could it be the feed - GMO ?
How has your birds returns been - your club / combine.


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## White Homers (Sep 22, 2016)

I do not race but do take them places and I have lost more than any other time in the last few years. A friend of mine lost 46 young birds 4 miles from the loft and he has very good birds. Another flyer told me he lost 27 birds 10 miles away. At the club everyone is complaining about loosing birds this year and no one knows were they going because there is no one calling and saying they have found birds. I also talked to a guy who has been flying for 60 years and this year he said has been the worst. No one knows whats going on.


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## wildcat hunter (Jan 17, 2014)

Thanks for the reply. I wish we could find a way to eliminate Various things and get the problem down to 2-3 possibilities. What has changed in the last few years that could impact the birds homing ability ? And why do some find their way home while others are lost, like you mentioned - no reports or very few reports of lost birds.


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## SRSeedBurners (Jul 22, 2015)

Interesting topic. Could it be the proliferation of hawks since the ban on DDT etc? I only fly highflyers and I've lost half my birds this year, mostly due to one f/n hawk who is real good at catching them. Besides that one hawk, I see a lot more around too. Are pigeons also disappearing in areas that aren't know to have hawks?

Global warming? Shifting poles?


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## White Homers (Sep 22, 2016)

The hawks are really getting bad but to loose 46 birds a couple of miles from home with none returning it must be something else. Some should make it home. I was reading were sun spots have been really on an upswing this year but still losing birds from so close does not make any sense.


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## bootface (Jun 29, 2017)

Damn, I’m glad I don’t let my bird fly loose. The rehab center where I work has gotten more domestic pigeons than usual this year, that’s part of the reason I started adopting them. There doesn’t seem to be any common reason for admittance, though. A few that are probably hawk attacks, some very badly broken legs, and maybe one or two emancipation cases.


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## wildcat hunter (Jan 17, 2014)

Two years ago my YB's got hit so often they up and left. I had 17 birds leave. I was standing outside one time when a hawk hit them. He hit and missed 2 times, on the 3rd try he got one to the ground. I ran over and he flew away but the other birds left and never came back. I wonder where they went. 
But I don't think thats the problem now. I haven't had any hawk attacks this year at the loft - maybe because we had a crow nest here and the crows were around all summer ( they are still here ). 
Something else is messing with the birds. Has anyone heard if the migratory birds are having any problems ?


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## White Homers (Sep 22, 2016)

Some interesting reading also the comments at the end. https://www.pigeonracingpigeon.com/discussion-of-the-week/are-mobile-phone-towers-pigeon-killers/


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Thanks for posting that. It was an interesting article. Wouldn't surprise me if the towers are effecting them.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Could they have something like circovirus so they are too weak to fly home?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

cwebster said:


> Could they have something like circovirus so they are too weak to fly home?


No. They would know if their birds were sick, and wouldn't have raced them.


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## rpalmer (Mar 10, 2011)

I know this is about YB's. But if there were environmental conditions affecting navigation would it not also affect OB's? I guarantee you I do not have the answer to this problem but find it interesting.


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## wildcat hunter (Jan 17, 2014)

I had a thought about the old birds too. They have the experience from the previous YB season. I would love to let my birds have open loft. That would give them lots of time to figure things out. But - you know how hawks are, it would be lunch all winter for them. Of course that will not help the OLR's. 
What gets to me is the birds come from very good stock and they never really get to show their stuff. Then we might blame the breeders and get rid of them. If only we could look into the birds heads.


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## zooman (Sep 23, 2016)

This year is been crazy everyone loosing birds like crazy we don't know why, good flyers loosing 75% of the birds every time they race . i just stop racing i just good mad! a good racing pigeons not find there way home .


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## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

We had a good YB season, both myself and my club mates. There were a few clubs in our Combine that had some tough races though. I sent birds to five OLRs and only had one not make it to the final and all the races were very comparable to years past. It seems like every year some will complain about it being the worst, but I think everyone has there ups and downs. Just my opinion but I think when we use stock birds with no racing experience as Breeders, we may sacrifice some basic homing ability.


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## SRSeedBurners (Jul 22, 2015)

Although I like the theory about cell towers, those have been around for a long while now. This pigeon problem seems to be very recent.


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## wildcat hunter (Jan 17, 2014)

I agree, the toll of lost birds are really up this year.


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## V-John (May 15, 2008)

Our club/combine lost a lot of birds this year. Some losses of upwards of 70 percent or better. On races.


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## 95SPORTSTER (Jun 30, 2011)

Yeah we had 3 of the toughest races that guy's in my club could remember. It was my first season and I started with 20 and ended up with 1 bird but I blame me for my loses. I pushed my bird's hard and sent them to every race. My 1 bird flew 8 straight races 1500 miles with my best finish 13th. Devil is definitely in the little details. I learned a lot this year and I am really looking forward to the next season.


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

It was bad here on Long Island this year most lofts had less then 25% of the birds they started with left at the end of the season. One loft had over 150 birds coming home from 100 miles. In one of the 100 mile races with 365 birds he took the first 17 positions in the race. By the end of the season he only had 27 birds to ship into the last race and he lost birds in that race even though he topped the combine. The best loft in terms of loses still lost over 50% of their birds. Only 6 out of the 63 lofts shipping the last race in our combine had enough birds left to ship the limit of 30 birds.


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## wildcat hunter (Jan 17, 2014)

The odd thing, Very few are reported. Usually I get a few birds in, this year I had 1 and the owner wanted it back so we made arrangements to ship it back.
We are looking at many thousands that are just gone ! The well known OLR flyer Nanez stated he has never seen anything like this. He has well bred birds and lost a large amount of them. In the "Blue Mountain race he had an entry of 6 birds, only 1 finished the races.
Something unusual happened this year to mess with the homing ability of our birds. But - how did the remaining birds make it home? Questions we may never have an answer to.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Am very sad reading this.


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## White Homers (Sep 22, 2016)

Some people also say that the sun activity has a lot to do with losses we will never know.
https://gizmodo.com/why-has-our-sun-been-freaking-out-so-much-lately-1803778416


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## Lamarsh (May 2, 2017)

I too have experienced inexplicable losses. Perhaps different from most of you, I was new to homing pigeons this past spring, when I built a small 4'x4' loft and started it first with 6 squeakers (about 1 month old) from good racing stock. I made a few beginners mistakes and lost birds from that, but eventually my losses were inexplicable, as I was losing birds that were well settled to my loft and had been on many previous loft flights and returned no problem at all. I would lose birds in pairs and sometimes 3 birds at a time. I got new batches of squeakers to begin anew after losing birds, and I think I have had a total of 18 birds, and only have 6 left (and half of these 6 happen to be birds from when I first started).

I live in a semi-urban area, and while there are hawks here, I almost never see them around my area, they stick to the outskirts of where we live where there is more space like fields and golf courses. When I say I rarely see them, I mean in the 3 years I've lived here I don't think I've seen a single hawk in or around my neighborhood. 

After losing several young birds, I had 9 remaining homers since August, and flew them at least once a week with no problems. Just last weekend I flew them and 3 went missing and are still gone. These 3 birds are great birds that have homed excellently, and are well tamed. I cannot imagine if they suffered death that it could be from the same fate. 

My confidence has sort of been crushed. I love these birds and love keeping them, taking care of them and watching them fly. Most of my interest in them is the fact that they are pets that also have their liberty to fly freely, but now I am left with paranoia and no confidence in flying them.

Any advice or feedback is greatly appreciated.


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## wildcat hunter (Jan 17, 2014)

Lamarsh, That sounds very depressing ! As I was reading this I thought the losses could be because the loft was overcrowded but when you got to 9 left and still lost 3 more I don't know. I know its very sad to see all the lost birds. I just hope they didn't starve out there. I do wonder where all the lost birds do end up.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Even if you don't see the hawks around, they are there. It doesn't take them long to find out that you have birds. That may be why you lost them. If a hawk goes after them and they fly far, they may get lost. Sometimes if no mates available they will take off looking for a mate.


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## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

I know it's depressing but don't give up. Everyone loses birds...maybe enlarge your loft a bit so you can enjoy raising some. When you mention that you loft fly them once a week...is that just letting them out at home or is that when you take them away for a toss? I think that if you're only letting them out at home once a week, you're setting them up for a fly away. For my part, the babies that I raise have flown at least 1500 miles training and racing in their first year of life yet I'll still lose some. Hang in there and start planning for next year!!


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## Lamarsh (May 2, 2017)

raftree3 said:


> I know it's depressing but don't give up. Everyone loses birds...maybe enlarge your loft a bit so you can enjoy raising some. When you mention that you loft fly them once a week...is that just letting them out at home or is that when you take them away for a toss? I think that if you're only letting them out at home once a week, you're setting them up for a fly away. For my part, the babies that I raise have flown at least 1500 miles training and racing in their first year of life yet I'll still lose some. Hang in there and start planning for next year!!


I only fly them from my loft because my early losses made me paranoid to start doing tosses, I was afraid I'd never see them again.


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## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

Lamarsh said:


> I only fly them from my loft because my early losses made me paranoid to start doing tosses, I was afraid I'd never see them again.


Everyone's had those same concerns. Maybe whoever you've been getting your birds from could give you some advice. Having a coach to turn to solves a lot of problems.


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## White Homers (Sep 22, 2016)

You also mentioned in the beginning you had 18 birds. In a 4x4 loft that is too many birds. That size loft should handle about 4 pair maybe 5. Just my opinion.


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## Lamarsh (May 2, 2017)

White Homers said:


> You also mentioned in the beginning you had 18 birds. In a 4x4 loft that is too many birds. That size loft should handle about 4 pair maybe 5. Just my opinion.


No I meant I have had 18 total throughout this process. At any given time I have only had 10 at one given time, and that didn't last long. I plan on never exceeding a dozen, and implementing birth control to maintain that number. While my loft is small, I did build a very large aviary. In hindsight, I do wish my loft was about twice the size because I now realize it's easier to train new young birds in larger groups.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

They should really have 2 square ft. of floor space each bird. So a 4X4 should have no more than 8 birds total. After that you are starting to over crowd. That causes more stress, which will also lead to more sickness. Then if you breed them, that is even more birds. The size of the aviary doesn't count. It's the size of the loft.


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## Lamarsh (May 2, 2017)

Jay3 said:


> They should really have 2 square ft. of floor space each bird. So a 4X4 should have no more than 8 birds total. After that you are starting to over crowd. That causes more stress, which will also lead to more sickness. Then if you breed them, that is even more birds. The size of the aviary doesn't count. It's the size of the loft.


I have six left. My plans are to allow them to raise no more than 4 squab, and then proceed with young bird training and settling for the new squeakers, then once they are ready I will fly all of my birds together. I plan on keeping birth control methods in place unless I incur more losses. This will be my plan until the spring when I intend on building a larger loft. It seems the birds fly in more unison and stick together more in larger numbers.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Well I hope this coming season you have better luck with them.


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## White Homers (Sep 22, 2016)

I find when you have pigeons the loft is never big enough because you always want more birds lol.


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## heeler (Nov 19, 2013)

Just my opinion, 
But folks that RACE birds and folks that just HAVE birds will indeed experience different situations and circumstances because of the way we fly or train our birds. For instance, most all of us like to loft fly our birds, we love to see them fly and hawks will indeed learn a pattern of loft flying birds. It's just not natural for birds to fly in a circle around a center point but that's what they do whilst loft flying. 
Racers will sometimes stop loft flying during the race season and only road train for this very reason, they still get air time but when they get home they trap and are safe in the loft. That is not to say our birds can't get hit by a hawk on the way home because it does happen. 
The premise of this thread was YB loses and I too lost 50% during this race season and I too think hawks are the biggest culprit of this factiod.


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## Lamarsh (May 2, 2017)

heeler said:


> Just my opinion,
> But folks that RACE birds and folks that just HAVE birds will indeed experience different situations and circumstances because of the way we fly or train our birds. For instance, most all of us like to loft fly our birds, we love to see them fly and hawks will indeed learn a pattern of loft flying birds. It's just not natural for birds to fly in a circle around a center point but that's what they do whilst loft flying.
> Racers will sometimes stop loft flying during the race season and only road train for this very reason, they still get air time but when they get home they trap and are safe in the loft. That is not to say our birds can't get hit by a hawk on the way home because it does happen.
> The premise of this thread was YB loses and I too lost 50% during this race season and I too think hawks are the biggest culprit of this factiod.


Agreed. When I loft fly, my birds not only circle fly around my home, but they loiter around my roof and such. On the flip side, I have several different communities of feral pigeons (different groups roosting in different places) all within 1 mile of my home. One group has well over 75 pigeons in it right now. They behave very similar to my pigeons when they l loft fly in that they fly circles around their roosting spot and loaf/loiter around the roosting spot as well. There are more of them, so I would imagine hawks would be more inclined to hit them than my tiny group of birds, but who knows.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Oh they do hit the ferals as well, but I also think ferals are more alert to them and practiced at avoiding them. But they still get them.


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## Lamarsh (May 2, 2017)

Jay3 said:


> Oh they do hit the ferals as well, but I also think ferals are more alert to them and practiced at avoiding them. But they still get them.


I could only imagine. I also think the ferals find safety in numbers. They often fly together in large groups, then land in large groups. Herd mentality.


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## White Homers (Sep 22, 2016)

I was thinking about losses and hawks and one thing I just can't get is if a hawk attacks birds that are out racing or training why would they not come back after they have been chased. People say they are chased way off course but when training or racing the birds are brought to different areas that they have never been to anyway. What is the difference when you release a bird 50 miles away and the hawk chases them for a couple more miles. Why after the chase do they not just find their way home as if they were released from that spot. I think it must be something more than just hawks. I can understand if they are young and have not really been away from the loft yet but birds that are trained and just disappear I just don't understand. Just me thinking out loud.


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## Lamarsh (May 2, 2017)

White Homers said:


> I was thinking about losses and hawks and one thing I just can't get is if a hawk attacks birds that are out racing or training why would they not come back after they have been chased. People say they are chased way off course but when training or racing the birds are brought to different areas that they have never been to anyway. What is the difference when you release a bird 50 miles away and the hawk chases them for a couple more miles. Why after the chase do they not just find their way home as if they were released from that spot. I think it must be something more than just hawks. I can understand if they are young and have not really been away from the loft yet but birds that are trained and just disappear I just don't understand. Just me thinking out loud.


Whenever I talk about my losses, and mention my suspicion of them joining the many many local ferals within a mile of my house, my ferals suspicion usually gets discounted by many fanciers in place of hawk suspicion. I've even been told my birds would never and could never live in the wild. I have to say, over time, I have a lot of reason to disagree with these folks, and I suspect I have lost quite a few birds to the feral flocks. With respect to my birds not being able to survive, I imagine it's not tough for my birds to fly around for a few hours with ferals, follow them to the ferals' food source, and then boom they have figured out at least one way to get food out there. Pigeons are smart, and IMO have ways of adapting. While I think hawks have something to do with it, I am glad there are a few people on here that agree with my suspicion of my birds joining feral flocks, especially considering that my loft is not large (but it is very clean, and I take great care of my birds, great food, I treat their water, I loft fly them often, and I give them treats like peanuts, and I offer them a variety of nutrient sources for them such as dandelion greens and like 5 different types of grit (redstone, oyster shell, seaweed/iodine, charcoal)). I'd bet there is just something about a flock of 50-70+ pigeons that is hard for my birds to turn down, or at least be curious about. One nice thing about this, if I am correct, is that at least my birds are alive if they have joined ferals, and if so, I wish them the best and I'm happy they are there as opposed to dead.


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## heeler (Nov 19, 2013)

White Homer, 
you mentioned -- birds that are trained and just disappear --- again I am referring to racers....I had 4 racers that were not mine but came home with mine and just wouldn't leave. 
We usually try to figure the end of the race and then head to the clubhouse for knock off and I leave my racer recovery door open so anybody that get's home late can still get in. The next morning I found on 3 occasions strangers in my loft. So I tossed them out and they just wouldn't leave. 
I even had one that belonged to a flyer 50 miles north of me so I called him and told him I had his bird but he wont leave, he said keep him. Ok then I changed chip rings and he flew the last 5 races from my loft. If I hadn't called the owner he would have said ---- why have my birds disappeared????
Just and example of what can become of the ones we think are lost.


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## Lamarsh (May 2, 2017)

heeler said:


> White Homer,
> you mentioned -- birds that are trained and just disappear --- again I am referring to racers....I had 4 racers that were not mine but came home with mine and just wouldn't leave.
> We usually try to figure the end of the race and then head to the clubhouse for knock off and I leave my racer recovery door open so anybody that get's home late can still get in. The next morning I found on 3 occasions strangers in my loft. So I tossed them out and they just wouldn't leave.
> I even had one that belonged to a flyer 50 miles north of me so I called him and told him I had his bird but he wont leave, he said keep him. Ok then I changed chip rings and he flew the last 5 races from my loft. If I hadn't called the owner he would have said ---- why have my birds disappeared????
> Just and example of what can become of the ones we think are lost.


Very interesting. So, this concept of other race birds joining your loft is basically a "fly in". A bird that has been trained (and presumably trained well) to home to Spot A, its owner's loft, but later chose it wants to stay in Spot B, your loft. I'd posit that this bird still knows it's original home is in Spot A, and knows how to get back, but chose to stay in Spot B. 

With this in mind, can we conclude (or at least hypothesize) that at least some well trained and well bred homers have the ability or desire to choose a new home based on things other than a homing instinct to only return to their original home (perhaps selfish desires, a new mate, etc)? This would support my theory that I've lost birds to large local feral flocks. 

Makes me even more interested in these fascinating creatures!


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## White Homers (Sep 22, 2016)

heeler funny you mentioned this I also have a few birds that came in with mine and also wouldn't leave. And same as you I contacted the owners and was told bring them some place and let them go but they were at my loft before me. One I was told was a great racer and was to 3 races out to 175 miles.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I think some may not find their way home as well as is thought. When they go out as a group, they stay together and come back together. Doesn't mean they are all good at homing. If scared by a hawk and scattered in different directions, now the group is not there to follow home. Some are not going to find their way alone. Some are better at homing than others.
If they were all joining feral flocks, then the flocks would have many more banded birds in them then they have. Also, they show up in peoples yards, lost all the time. Some do join feral flocks, but not nearly as many as you would like to believe.


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## Lamarsh (May 2, 2017)

Jay3 said:


> I think some may not find their way home as well as is thought. When they go out as a group, they stay together and come back together. Doesn't mean they are all good at homing. If scared by a hawk and scattered in different directions, now the group is not there to follow home. Some are not going to find their way alone. Some are better at homing than others.
> If they were all joining feral flocks, then the flocks would have many more banded birds in them then they have. Also, they show up in peoples yards, lost all the time. Some do join feral flocks, but not nearly as many as you would like to believe.


Very good point. To that point, that is why racers end up with such good birds, since in theory the poor homing birds usually get filtered out in racing losses. 

My birds have leg bands with my phone number, so if somebody found them I'd hope they'd call me, but I can't imagine how they'd ever catch one of my birds without it being injured. My birds are tame, but they won't allow somebody to just walk up and grab them.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If they are hungry enough, and getting weaker from hunger, they can be caught. They get weak enough where they cannot even fly. Or come down with canker or something else from stress, and they are weak enough to catch. Been there, done that. I have taken in birds that I wasn't sure they would even make it. And that also makes it easier for predators to catch them.
And sometimes they will go to people or go into their garages or sheds, as they don't know what else to do. Having your phone number on them is a very good idea.


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