# huge lump in throat



## dingweding (Jun 2, 2012)

I have young fantail male, he is always strong and fighting with others. However a few months ago, he got canker, I treated him, he recovered soon and back to full healthy.

However, today I notice he is not eating, and there is a massive meaty lump at his throat... this does not look like any canker yellowish lump... this one is normal healthy colour, but it is massive, and I can not even feed him a pill. the lump is so big, blocked everything, I think the poor bird can not even drink water

anyone know what it is? many thanks


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

What you mean by "normal color"? You look inside the mouth and is a lump in the mucosa or what?

If canker blocks the throat, give injectable (or perfusable) Metronidazole. For a serious case the bird needs ~ 60- 80 mg in first day (if the bird has over 300 gr) and 50-60 mg next 7 days or until the lump disappear. Oral and injected Metronidazole have similar level of absorbtion, which theoretical means that the dose should be the same in each method of administration, but by injection I think is stronger so you may reduce the dose to 50 mg in first day and 40 mg daily afterward.



And, as Metro is hepatotic, is good to add some hepatoprotective suplements which you find at pet or pigeon stores. The B vitamin complex has an almost similar effect.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Picture of the bird?
Most likely canker. How long did you treat him? What drug did you use? Pill form or in the water?


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## dingweding (Jun 2, 2012)

normal colour I mean, look like the colour of any healthy bird.

I treat canker with Spartrix Canker tablets, from harkers. It always worked well. only one tablet solve the problem, in most of cases

For this bird, a few months ago, his canker is quite serious, as I only found out after I back from a business trip. He has large yellow lump in his throat, thus I gave him 2 tablets, he start eating in 2 days, and one week later, he back to normal self.

But this time, the lump is so different, basically if you look his throat , you can not see anything abnormal, it all looks healthy colour. however, when you touch his throat, you will find, there is a massive lump grow at the same place.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

That may mean the canker colony didn't grow on the mucosa of the digestive tract as usual but on the inside of the digestive epithelium, so you can't see it. Canker can grow in many places and I think this location is possible.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Spartrix has never worked so well for me. Metronidazole is much better, and they say one day of treatment, but anyone knows that is BS. You really need to treat for 7 to 10 days. You didn't treat long enough to knock it down. The trich will build up an immunity to the drug.


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## dingweding (Jun 2, 2012)

I try to purchase some Metronidazole, but can not find it in UK, thus I bought it online, it is powder like, it said pure Metronidazole... How do I use it? do I put it in water, then feed the water to the bird?


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

What does it say on the metronidazole's label about dosage? If it was supplied for pigeons and just says x amount per bird for a number of days, beware, because it would really depend on the strength of the med and the weight of the bird. Suppliers often assume a 400 - 500 gram racing pigeon.

If he has this lump, then a spartrix tablet probably won't go down anyway. 

It would need to be given orally from a syringe at the correct mix of metronidazole and water.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Adding meds to the drinking water, as you normally would with powder, are not really a good idea. You can't be sure that he has drank enough of the med.
As John has said, it would have to be given orally by syringe, and not everyone knows how to give it that way. Tablets are better and easier I think. Even if you have to brake one up, it isn't hard to put it in a little water and syringe to the bird.


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## dingweding (Jun 2, 2012)

I manage to feed him the Spartrix tablet , he seems getting better, start to eating, and look better,however,the lump is still there. The metronidazole I got is for fish treatment actually, it come from aboard, said pure metronidazole powder.. I am not sure how much should I feed him


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes, they do use Metronidazole for fish. But it is also used for birds. A tablet is easier to administer than powder. He would need 50 mg once daily. If you just mix it in with the drinking water it isn't as effective, because the bird may not drink enough.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

If the parasites has died, the lump will still remain there if has a shape that stops it from going away, or something block it (like a fold of the digestive tract). That means you can safely push it to remove it. But again, it might not be already dead and pushing may lead to tissue rupture and hemorrhagy.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

AndreiS said:


> If the parasites has died, the lump will still remain there if has a shape that stops it from going away, or something block it (like a fold of the digestive tract). That means you can safely push it to remove it. But again, it might not be already dead and pushing may lead to tissue rupture and hemorrhagy.


Removing the canker makes no sense, as it can cause a bad bleed and kill the bird. Why risk it? Foolish. It will clear on it's own when the medicine works. If still there, then you need to medicate longer.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

Yes you put it in water, does it not have ANY instrustions on the bottle? What is the strength?


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Jay3 said:


> Removing the canker makes no sense, as it can cause a bad bleed and kill the bird. Why risk it? Foolish. It will clear on it's own when the medicine works. If still there, then you need to medicate longer.


The canker button may be dead and no more attached to bird's body and yet there for few days, like, say, a grain stuck somewhere.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

It will come off when cured. Better to be safe than sorry.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

I just said because I lost one or two birds because this, that is, feeding liquid food instead removing the button and starting with solid food.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

When they are cured, the canker does leave. Maybe you didn't treat for long enough. That is probably why you lost them.


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

You can yave internal canker on the liver and the first sign of it is death. So just because you cant see canker doesnt mean you shouldnt treat for it a few times a year. Canker is every present in the birds body and when stressed or sick, it multiplies or if another bird is brought into the loft they have different strains of canker and can give it to your existing birds and they will need to get that canker first and then within a few days you treat all loft for canker to knock the numbers down so they become immune to it but it never goes 100% of the time. Just gets controlled. I treat all new birds for canker, then salmonella or a general 4-1 then introduce them to the loft and I treat the rest of the birds awhile later. Even if it means removing the already treated bird for the duration, but they need to be treated for eachothers strains.


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## dingweding (Jun 2, 2012)

some update on this bird.
The bird still eating, lost a lot weight, lump still there, I tried different med, but no use.


the Metronidazole I purchased finally arrived before Christmas, I use syringe with mix of metronidazole and water. 60mg every day. 

The first 4 days, bird look slightly better still eating.

on day 5th. the bird stop eating, and can barely stand up any more. I think its body maybe too weak to handle all these now. thus I stop feed the med, and hand feed the birds some baby bird food.

on day 6th, the bird still so weak, I feed it some more baby food.

on day 7th, the bird start to stand up, walk and try its best to feed itself.


so what should I do? I think the bird is so weak, if I continue the treatment, it may not be strong enough to handle it.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Canker advances fastly so if it was canker, the bird was dead by now. The lump may be of another nature and maybe you should make a lab test and radiography.

Start giving B vitamins, lot of probiotics and minerals, especially calcium. At vet drugstores you find supplements with calcium, D3 vitamin (necessary for assimilation of calcium) and other minerals and vitamins. If not such drugstore in your area, you can buy from human drugstore calcium gluconate, B vitamins (B1, B2, B6 and B12), D3 vitamin. 

If th bird is weak, might be both because of the medicine (metronidazole is known to cause dizziness) and because insufficient food. Make a thicker solution of Kaytee. The amount of water a medium sized pigeon drinks daily is 30 ml so you should add as much Kaytee as possible to this quantity of water. But not very thick, as may block the crop.


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## dingweding (Jun 2, 2012)

thanks, I have a lot human vitamin and calcium, I will feed it , maybe half pill per day?

do u think i should continue feed metronidazole?

yes, I did feet it Kaytee.. and he also try to feed itself.

I still think it is canker, as the lump exactly located at same place of the canker.

I think at beginning I treat the canker, it works, however, it did not totally go away, then I tried different med, none of them can cure it, but keep it from getting worse..

the lump does seems getting slightly smaller as well.

however, the poor bird lost so much weight, it used to be a beautiful strong cock bird


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## dingweding (Jun 2, 2012)

maybe I only give it 20mg everyday? for a few extra days?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

How much are you feeding him and how often? How are you feeding?
Cutting back to 20 mg daily will only help the trich to build a resistance to the drug. You will make matters worse. Maybe you aren't feeding enough. 
Are you sure you get the whole 60 mg into him?


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## dingweding (Jun 2, 2012)

yes, I am sure it get all the med, I put metronidazole into a bit of water, then suck up everything with syringe then feed into its mouth

It did get better in first a few days, then then bird can barely stand up any more.. now I stopped, it started move around again, and yesterday I see it tried to feed itself


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## CBL (May 13, 2014)

I say feed the bird 4 times a day, he is too weak to feed himself enough, so continue to help him. If the meds are making him more weak maybe you are overdosing him. Sometimes you have to go by the weight of the bird, if he is a waif and not meat on him, I would use lower dose. So question is this, is he weak cuz you only fed him meds and no food, and then you attribute his weakness to the canker meds? Then when u stop the meds and give food he gets stronger but not cuz u stopped the meds but cuz you FED him and he gets nutrients, try both together and see how it goes. 

Any pic of the bird and or his poop and his mouth lump?
Most birds die secondary to the disease because they dont feel good enough to eat and drink so you must do that for them as well as meds.


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