# Baby pigeon aspiration help?



## SeramaHen (Apr 8, 2020)

Hello, 
I made an account earlier and posted about the baby feral I found. For some reason my post was hidden and I couldn't log back onto my account so I've created a new one. I'm not sure what happened.

(My original post for info
I found this little guy on the ground, not near any trees or hedges. I did see a cat run off earlier so I assume the cat grabbed him but he has no injuries that I can see. He was cold and pretty lifeless so I brought him inside and set him up under a ceramic heat emitter connected to a thermostat, (which I had spare for pet reptiles) set to 90°F and left him in a dark room to warm up. To my surprise, he was really bright in the morning. The hari tropican I ordered came today and I just fed him, I was following the feeding advice on the pigeonrescue.co.uk website. 










Then suddenly he started making popping, clicking sounds when he breathed. I'm guessing it has aspirated?? I've been so careful, I don't know how it happened. Other than the clicking he's super bright and begging for food. I've been allowing his crop to empty mostly before feeding and he has been pooping regularly. I got one reply to my post about raising the temp and I did and he seemed more content and started emptying his crop quicker.

What can I do about the clicking? I've read on here to buy Baytril, where can I do this? Do I have time to order it or will it be too late by the time it comes??

I'm so upset, he seemed really great but I'm worried I'm going to lose him now. 

Thank you for any help.


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## SeramaHen (Apr 8, 2020)

It says 'Vet prescription required'. How can I take a pigeon hatchling to the vets, he will get too cold. Can I just phone them up and explain what he's doing? I don't know what to do. (

I'm in the UK.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

It's possible he might have aspirated some formula and then aspiration pneumonia will set in. Phone the vet if you can. Baytril is very harsh on their little bodies, you will need the exact dosage. I don't know what other antibiotics you can use for this problem, maybe the vet will suggest something that you can get from a pharmacy. If on antibiotics, he will also need something to prevent a yeast infection.

Keep him warm for now. Also take care not to overfill the crop as some formula can be pushed back into the beak.


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## SeramaHen (Apr 8, 2020)

Thank you for your help. I'm going to ring my vets soon but I'm worried they won't know what the best thing to do for him is.

I'm so upset...


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Is he an avian vet? Then he will know what to suggest for aspiration pneumonia. How is the little one breathing? Open mouth and struggling to breath? You will need his exact weight for the dosage.


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## SeramaHen (Apr 8, 2020)

He is breathing fine, there's just a faint clicking. Other than that he is really bright and asking to be fed. 
It's a practice with a few vets and nurses, we always get someone different. I've taken my chickens there before but they aren't avian specialists. 
I've contacted a wildlife rescue asking for advice.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Get some meds if you can. But don't give unless you see he is going downhill. Sometimes antibiotics will do more harm than good. I've checked on the internet, looks as if one can give amoxycillin (sold as Betamox tablets 500 mg) as well in a situation like this. One can get this from a pharmacy, in some countries you will need a prescription.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

How is he doing?


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## SeramaHen (Apr 8, 2020)

Hello, thank you for your advice. He's still really bright, his crop is emptying and he's asking for food. I have him booked for the vets today but I'm worried they won't know what to do. He's so bright and you said not to give him meds unless he goes downhill. He's clicking less loudly. Is it possible he won't need antibiotics? They all require a prescription here in the UK.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Difficult situation, sometimes the problem will be solved without antibiotics. If you have already made a booking, take him to the vet. You can put him on a hotwaterbottle covered with a soft blanket. Tell them what happened, tell them you want antibiotics for aspiration pneumonia (just for in case). You might end up not using it, at least you will have it available if needed.

I don't always trust vets, especially if they are not avian vets. If they want to do something drastic like emptying his crop or give injections, tell them no. If your gutfeeling tells you something shouldn't be done, then don't let them do it. You are the one paying the bill, so it's up to you to make the decision what should be done. Only get the meds, and make sure about the dosage to give just for in case. Also, they should give you an anti-fungal to prevent yeast. Baytril can cause a yeast infection.


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## SeramaHen (Apr 8, 2020)

Sorry, I didn't see your post until after I was at the vets. They gave him amoxicillin and I have more to give him over the next 4 days. At the vets, he started to sound raspy when he was calling out. And the clicking in his lungs was more rattley. Do you think I should give him the amoxicillin for the next four days? He is his normal lively self and the raspy voice is no more but he is still clicky. The only thing is his poo was runnier than normal and less frequent after the treatment. 

Thank you for your advice, I really appreciate it. I'm really taken with him and his feathers are starting to come through. Is it bad that he's becoming tame? I wouldn't mind keeping him as a pet if it's possible (and not considered cruel).. but I'd want company for him. Thanks again.

edit - I mean he's not out of the woods yet but I'm hopeful and I'm thinking what I'm going to do long term.


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## SeramaHen (Apr 8, 2020)




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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Continue with the meds, otherwise the symptoms might return. Are you giving twice daily? How much amoxy are you giving him? Did they give you an anti-fungal as well? If not, then you can add a small drop of apple cider vinegar to his formula to prevent yeast.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

He is going to be very tame and will be imprinted on you. Meaning he will view you as his parent and later on as his mate. He will rather associate with humans than pigeons.

So it won't be cruel to keep him, it will be cruel to release him. Raised by a human, he won't know where to find food, shelter etc.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

How is he doing now?


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## SeramaHen (Apr 8, 2020)

Hello, sorry for not responding right away. He has finished his treatment and is no longer making the clicking sound, he seems a lot brighter! I was giving him the drops of apple cider vinegar as you suggested.
His legs were splaying slightly but I used a bandage for a couple of nights and now he can stand upright.
I'm currently looking into getting him a crate to live in for when he's a little bigger. 
Thank you again for your help and advice!


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Oh but he is just adorable! I'm so glad things are going well with him. If you are planning on keeping him forever (I hope) and you can't keep him outside in an aviary, invest in a large parrotcage for him. He will start walking when about 2 to 2 1/2 weeks old. Let him get use to being in a cage from a very young age. That will be his territory where he gets his food and to sleep at night.


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## SeramaHen (Apr 8, 2020)

Bad news, sadly. I'm not sure what's wrong with him but his throat has a very red and swollen lump and he's not acting himself. He's quiet and not wanting food.
It's weird because he was bright, asking to be fed andso I fed him and suddenly he went all quiet. I then noticed the lumps, I don't know if I've caused it or if it was there already but he was bright before I fed him.
His crop was then emptying slower than usual so I thought perhaps he has developed crop stasis but it didn't smell and it has emptied in the past couple of hours. He is still pooping but less often.










Could it be canker? It feels like a squidgy lump, nothing comes up out of his mouth if I put pressure on the lumps. I don't know if it's an infection or what... Could it be a yeast infection?

I'm gutted.

edit - I have a daktarin cream which contains 2% Miconazole Nitrate. Can I do anything with this to help him?


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Can you check inside his beak and deep inside his throat (especially on that side) for any yellowish growths? I don't know if the lump is canker. 

Is the lump only underneath the skin and loose or attached to the internal organs?

Are you still adding the acv to his formula (or applesauce). This will help with digestion.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Is it possible he got bitten by something?


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## SeramaHen (Apr 8, 2020)

I don't know how to describe it, it doesn't feel like a lump anymore. It just feels as though the neck is swollen. It's not like a loose lump that can be moved around.

There are no other animals that have access to him unless you mean an insect bite, which I guess could be possible.

He's suddenly quite a bit brighter and mildy asking to be fed.


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## SeramaHen (Apr 8, 2020)

I stopped doing the ACV a couple of days after the antibiotics ended, I'm so annoyed at myself, I wish I kept doing it. I've given him some today.


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## SeramaHen (Apr 8, 2020)

Sorry, yeah I can't see any growths in his mouth. I can't really see too far down though. 
Thank you for responding.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

I would think canker will develop more slowly, starting small and growing bigger gradually. Will you be able to get metronidazole from a pharmacy, just for in case. Always good to have that around as you might need it in the future.

Just keep an eye on him for now and continue with a drop or 2 of acv in his formula. If he seriously starts losing his appetite, then you can start treating him. Hopefully the lump will be smaller tomorrow. I was also thinking of an insect bite.

Let us know how he is doing.


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## SeramaHen (Apr 8, 2020)

I can get the harkers canker treatment from amazon but it wouldn't arrive until Sunday. Unless I buy bulk 50 tablets to come Thursday, I don't mind doing this if you think it could help him.

He had seriously lost his appetite this morning, not wanting anything and he was very lethargic. He also started to lose his voice. I thought he was dying. But he's just started asking again, he doesn't open his mouth but he nuzzles as if he's asking for food.

You don't think it's a yeast infection then? I was really worried that it was. 

I've had the windows open so it's possible an insect has bitten him.

Thanks again for your help.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

You can use human metronidazole from a pharmacy, unless you need a prescription for that in your country. If you can only get 5 x 100 mg tablets, this will be more than enough for treatment.

Is those yellowish stuff on the breast?


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

You can also get Nystatin (anti-fungal) from the pharmacy, just for in case he has a bit of a yeast infection after the antibiotics. I will help with the dosage. The Nystatin is very safe to use, it does not get absorbed into the body. So this will be the first choice to use for now.


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## SeramaHen (Apr 8, 2020)

Both those drugs I need to have a prescription for, I might be able to get them online. Do you think I should get both of them? I'm happy to but I'm worried about giving him different things at the same time. 

I do think it's some kind of infection, it's very hot and red around his neck. I think it's less likely to be canker. He doesn't seem any worse today and I think his eyes look a little brighter. 

I bought a pigeon vitamins tonic and have added a drop to his feed, I doubt it'll help really.

I have just requested to join the fb group but I haven't been accepted yet, I'm reluctant to post because it's a public group and my fb friends (including people I work with) will see my post. I don't want them to know because they will be judgemental. I'm going to make a separate account and post and I will continue posting here.

Thanks again for your help, I really appreciate it!


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Get both if you can. As I said, the Nystatin does not get absorbed in the body. If he has yeast, the Nystatin needs to get into contact with the yeast to kill the infection. If you have a bird on antibiotics, one should always combine the Nystatin with the antibiotics to prevent a yeast infection. If you have a bird with a yeast infection and you treat it for canker for ex, he will likely don't survive. Antibiotics will worsen a yeast infection.

You can always send a PMessage to one of the admin on that site, including the photos.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Have you noticed a change in his droppings? Especially the urates (white part)?


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## SeramaHen (Apr 8, 2020)

I can get 'Nystatin Oral Suspension' to come tomorrow. Is this OK? Would I insert it into his crop or drop it in from the back of his mouth?

(thank you so much)


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Yes, that's perfect. They need 30 000 units per 100 gram birdweight twice daily on an empty crop. So you need to check the dosage. How much does your baby weigh?

You can just put the fluid in the front of the lower beak, drop by drop and just take care he doesn't aspirate. Then wait an hour and feed him. Do the same in the afternoon.

If you are scared of aspiration, mix the right amount with only a little bit of formula and feed to him as you usually do. Wait an hour and continue with the rest of his food.


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## SeramaHen (Apr 8, 2020)

Active Ingredient(s): Nystatin
Administration: Oral
Presentation: Liquid suspension
Available Strength: 100,000 units/ml
Dosage: 1ml of suspension administered orally four times daily

Is this the info needed? He weighs 73g.

I have contacted someone on palomacy, if I get accepted into the group before they reply I will post there too.


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## SeramaHen (Apr 8, 2020)

I'm trying to get him to an avian specialist vet today. x


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

I saw the post on there, but now it's gone again. The Nystatin is the same strenght I'm using. For his weight, he will then need 0.2 ml in the morning and the same amount again in the evening.

Was just wondering if the formula might have been a bit too hot for him?

Let us know what the specialist recommends. I hope he will be ok, he is such a cute little thing.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

You sent me a message on FB but I accidentally deleted and can't remember your last name. Please friend me there.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

How is he doing?


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