# What are Probiotics used for?



## Jojopotato (Mar 28, 2008)

I've been reading in a few posts about probiotics.. Are they used like if you were giving them vitamins, Garlic in water or Apple Cider Vinegar or are they used when the bird is sick?

Thanks just wondering... LOL I take probiotics daily along with my daily vitamins.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Thank you for your interest in probiotics.

Probiotics are used to generate growth of good gut bacteria in the gut, which when population is at its greatest, it can crowd out bad gut bacteria.

Apple Cider Vinegar creates a favorable acidic environment for gut bacteria to thrive.

I use them for prevention and give additional probiotics to rehab birds especially the young who can be void of them when stressed. 

I eat home made kefir daily to increase my immune response.


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## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

I have tried to find the keefer(sp) product and can't. Where can I get it? How can you make your own?


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

I give mine Primalac Pigeon Probiotics. Will never be without it again, as long as they keep making it!


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

ohiogsp said:


> I have tried to find the keefer(sp) product and can't. Where can I get it? How can you make your own?


Treesa is going to be the person to really fill you in about kefir. Here is one link .. might not be what Treesa uses, so please wait for her to respond: http://www.kefir.net/

Terry


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*I find KEIFIR in the dairy section of my local super market.*


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

I glad some one has raised the subject of probiotic use as I have some 'newby' questions about their use.

1: For general use ie; as a preventative measure, how often do you suggest
giving them probiotics as opposed to solving a specific gut problem?

2: Is it best to just put the powder form in their drinking water or more 
directly, to ensure a certain amount is digested?

3: Depending on the answer to No:1, do you also give Apple Cider Vinegar on
a regular basis, if so, how often?

4: I give Vitamin powder to the PMV bird I have at the moment, should
this be given at the same time as probiotics or just occasionally also. I 
don't want to be overloading him with things that all at once.

Thanks

Janet


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## Jojopotato (Mar 28, 2008)

so basically it does the same for birds that it does for us...

Thank you all for the information I appreciate it...

Now do you give probiotics daily, once a week, twice week etc....

I know I give vinegar about twice a week, is that right? about a drop to a cup..

and I float garlic clove in their water about once a week.. 

I change their water twice a day if it looks like it needs it, seed, poop etc in it.. second changing I just leave clear...

Thanks
Kristi


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*Kefir*



ohiogsp said:


> I have tried to find the keefer(sp) product and can't. Where can I get it? How can you make your own?


THIS IS FROM THE LITERATURE DIRECTLY FROM THE WEBSITE:

"Kefir is a milk culture that originated in the Northern
Caucasus Mountains hundreds of years ago. Kefir is
similar to yoghurt in that it is a cultured milk but the kefir
curd is much smaller, so it can cover a larger area of the
intestines, and the strains of beneficial micro-organisms
present are different from yoghurt. Kefir will recolonize
the bowel with friendly intestinal bacteria whereas yoghurt
is not able to do this.
Typical strains of probiotic microorganisms found in
yoghurt are Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Bulgaricus and
perhaps either Bifido or Longum. Common strains found
in kefir are: Sacc.cerevisiae, Sacc. delbreuckii, Sacc.
exiguous, Sacc. florenti nus, Sacc. Globosus, Sacc.
Kefir, Sacc. Unisporus and Saccharomyces spp.,
Kluyveromyces bulgaricus, Kl.fragilis, Kl. Marxianus
ssp. Bulgaricus ssp. Marxianus, Totulaspora
delbreuckii, Candida kefyr, Candida (Torula) kefir, C.
pseudotropicalis var. lactosa, Candida spp.,
Cryptococcus kefyr, Mycotorula kefyr, My. Lactis, My.
Lactosa, Torulopsis bolmii, Tp. Kefyr and Torula kefir.
As you can see, kefir has several friendly bacteria. In
Russia all babies are fed kefir from the age of six months.
It is important to note that Lactobacillus Acidophilus is
only developed in the human digestive tract at around
age 5 or 5½ years. Feeding yoghurt to a young child
therefore would be difficult to digest and mucous forming.
Kefir, however, does not contain Lac. Acidophilus at all
and is highly recommended for young children.
Bifidobacteria, the friendly bacteria of the large intestine
in adult humans, decline with age or chronic conditions.
This is a good reason to regularly provide the system
with friendly bacteria. Other culprits that cause a decline
are: steroids, disturbed gastric function, disturbed
digestive tract motility (diarrhea, constipation), suffering
from altered acidity due to aging, pernicious anemia,
diverticulosis, regional enteritis (or Crohn’s), x-rays, other
radiation exposure, cirrhosis of the liver, immune
deficiencies and other chronic disease states. Factors
that can cause a decline in bifidos in children, include
sudden dietary changes, the use of antibiotics, infections,
vaccinations and even sudden weather changes.
A healthy bifido presence can be supported by eating
more vegetables and less meat as the consumption of
much meat tends to depopulate the bifidos. Drinking and
eating all kinds of lactic acid-fermented foods, milk
products (kefir), vegetables (e.g. sauerkraut), teas (e.g.
kombucha) etc. help to reestablish the bifidos. The total
weight of the many billions of bacteria living in our
intestines is 3½ lbs.
How to make kefir?
You could make kefir by using some ready made kefir as
a starter or you can buy kefir grains and activate them to
culture milk to a nice thick consistency. The temperature
at which kefir is cultured will change the taste and texture.
Whilst it is written that kefir will culture at temperatures as
low as 21o, you will get a more full-bodied, less tartetasting
kefir using a temperature around 80o.
First, we’ll talk about preparing the milk. You can use
raw whole milk, pasteurized whole milk or homogenized
whole milk – not ultra pasteurized milk. At low heat, bring
the milk to almost boiling (starting to bubble), stirring
occasionally. Remove from the heat and cool till the milk
is hot to the touch but does not burn your hand. The
reason for heating the milk is to eliminate the competing
microorganisms.
If you have some home-made kefir to use as a starter,
simply put the kefir (½ to 1 cup) into a wide-mouth glass
mason jar, add the warm milk, stir, seal the jar by screwing
on the lid, wrap tightly in towels, covering the top and
sides of the jar and preferably place it on the bottom
shelf of a cupboard in the kitchen above a counter. On
the counter beneath the shelf have a regular lamp burning
for twelve hours to keep the kefir at a “cozy” temperature.
It usually takes no longer than 12 hours under these
conditions to make thick, tasty kefir.
If you use kefir grains, place the grains into a cloth teabag
(which you need to make) or other suitable non-metallic
“floater” that will enable the grains to be suspended in
the milk with little holes small enough so the milk will reach
the grains but the grains will not be lost in the milk. The
kefir grains are in ‘sleep mode’. They need to be reactivated.
On the 1st day, using 1 cup of milk, suspend the grains in
the milk for 24 hours. On the 2nd day, discard the milk
and suspend the grains in a fresh cup of milk. On the
3rd day, repeat the procedure. After the 3rd or 4th day,
the milk will be properly cultured. You may now eat your
kefir. From this point forward, as the grains become more
and more activated, each time that you make kefir,
increase the amount of milk, e.g. from 250 ml to 400 ml,
to 600 ml, to 800 ml, then a quart. One sachet of kefir
grains will ultimately make 1 quart of kefir. After you’ve
been making kefir for a few months and your culture is
matured, you may choose to seal your kefir grains and
store them in the freezer. Now use some of your ready
made kefir as a starter for future batches of kefir, as
explained above. ENJOY!"

I use this kefir culture packet.

Here is the link:• www.healthline.cc 

I will use a little bit of it to add to baby bird formula for rehab or baby birds.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

1: For general use ie; as a preventative measure, how often do you suggest
giving them probiotics as opposed to solving a specific gut problem?
For prevention you may only need to use it once in a while, but always for a few days after medicating the birds.

2: Is it best to just put the powder form in their drinking water or more 
directly, to ensure a certain amount is digested?
Follow the directions of whatever product you are using, if it says to use it in the water then do that, if it says to sprinkle on seed then do that. For specific treatment it is best to give the bird orally.

3: Depending on the answer to No:1, do you also give Apple Cider Vinegar on
a regular basis, if so, how often?
I give ACV in the water a couple of times a week, about a tablespoon to two tablespoons per gallon, as much as they will tolerate.

4: I give Vitamin powder to the PMV bird I have at the moment, should
this be given at the same time as probiotics or just occasionally also. I 
don't want to be overloading him with things that all at once.
I understand your concern, again follow the manufacurer's recommendations.

If you are using human grade, you can use about 1/4 human serving over the seed. Make sure to use a drop of oil to get it to stick to the seed. I have emptied probiotic capsules in their drinking water too. If the bird's stool is normal consistency then use only on occasion, but always after a course of medication. 

I also give probiotic capsule to rehab birds that show very watery stools, one each day for a few days until the poop gets solid. I slick it up with Neem oil first, but you have to be extremely careful giving it. If you can find probiotics in soft gels they are easier to administer. When using kefir, I use just a tiny bit, stir it up to get a smooth consistency and plunge it down with a syringe. 




Now do you give probiotics daily, once a week, twice week etc....

I would give the birds probiotics on once a week or less, unless your birds are stressed especially young, and again after a course of medication.


I know I give vinegar about twice a week, is that right? about a drop to a cup..
I use ACV several times a week, a drop to a small drinking cup-or 1 tablespoon per gallon.

and I float garlic clove in their water about once a week.. 
Make sure to do garlic several days away from kefir, as it kills good and bad bacteria.

Make sure to clean/disinfect drinkers daily, or more often if they soil it.

Thank you all for your interest in one of the most important supportive measures in first line defense, for optimum immune response.


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## DEEJAY7950 (Dec 13, 2006)

What's wrong with using just plain yogurt?


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Thanks for the info, very helpful. I only have human grade probiotics, so without the dosage info on the bottle I was never quite sure of amounts for a bird.

Another couple of questions if you don't mind:

5: Is the best way to administer probiotic yoghurt via a syringe down the throat?

6: When is garlic required?

Thanks again

Janet


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

DEEJAY7950 said:


> What's wrong with using just plain yogurt?


You can use yogurt-there is nothing wrong with it, but kefir is much more beneficial to the intestines and has many more cultures, read above too

Kefir is similar to yoghurt in that it is a cultured milk but the kefir
curd is much smaller, so it can cover a larger area of the
intestines, and the strains of beneficial micro-organisms
present are different from yoghurt. Kefir will recolonize
the bowel with friendly intestinal bacteria whereas yoghurt
is not able to do this.


5: Is the best way to administer probiotic yoghurt via a syringe down the throat?

Any way that is least stressful to the bird and you, is the best method. I find using the syringe they get all of it, and it is not messy. I have spooned it into youngsters and it is messy and they splatter it everywhere. You can use the other baby feeding methods that are used by our members.


6: When is garlic required?
Garlic should be used on regular basis as a preventive, it is a wonderful natural antibiotic and does alot of other wonderful things inlcuding keeping parasites away. I put a clove of garlic in their water a few times a week. I give garlic soft gels to those birds that are in rehab. Check ou this thread: The Goodness of Garlic:
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=12553


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## Jojopotato (Mar 28, 2008)

*Thank you*

Thank you Trees Gray for your information, it was/is a big help.

and thank you everyone else for your responses as well...


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