# Wings of Winners



## hillfamilyloft

I want to start a thread that shows pictures of the wings of winning pigeons and the distances that they won. We had a wing shape post a few weeks back that was good. I thought pictures of winners would help us see the shapes of specific winning birds a specific distances. Winners, top 10s, high points birds, etc would also work. Maybe when we get enough birds we can sort them by distance and see if there are correlations. Pics against a nice solid color surface would work great. I will try and post some this weekend.


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## Crazy Pete

This sounds like a fun game, I'll try to get some pics.
Dave


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## Kastle Loft

Good idea. I think photos looking at the curve of the wing would be good, too. Shoot from the front instead of the top like we usually see.


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## SouthTown Racers

I will post a couple of pics of last years combine winner (STARS FALL daughter) when I get home from work this afternoon.


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## SouthTown Racers

Here is MTP 12 2446 BB H "BLUE STAR" Daughter of STARS FALL x WORM 1st place MO/IL Combine 200 miles 508 Birds.


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## soundmajorr

nice look bird there Matt. looks like a small hen with a good wing.


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## hillfamilyloft

I like the step up on the last 4. The other flights have little or no step. That looks like a 200 mile bird. I will get some pictures up tomorrow if I can get one of my sons to help me.


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## loonecho

This has the potential to be a truly interesting thread if we can get a bunch of pictures. Too bad I don't have any winners in my loft because I do have a camera and all of my birds do have wings.

Jim


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## hillfamilyloft

I was also thinking we can also show some of our interesting birds or special birds. I will show the wing of my full Janssen hen. Her four grandparents came directly form the Janssens loft via Ganus. She is line bred from the greats. Give everyone an idea of what the wings of a pure Janssen bird. Also would be nice to see one of Warrens pure Ludo birds. May want to limit it to birds that have bred winners in this group. My little Janssen hen is gold in the breeding loft.


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## Roger Siemens

ok guys i really want to learn more on this subject, i ve looked at alot of wings, and relooked. i held a sablonde bird , i noticed a twitch when i extended the wing and the bird pulled it back. i noticed the four flight feathers were wider than mine. let show more wings and explain what is a short , middle, long distance more clearly. why do the white feathers in hotter parts of the world wear out??


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## calzephyr

I don't want to sidetrack this thread, but i do have a wing related question:

I have a squeaker about 20 days old and i could swear it has 11 flights on each wing. Is this a good thing or a bad thing? Will it theoretically fly better/faster?


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## hillfamilyloft

calzephyr said:


> I don't want to sidetrack this thread, but i do have a wing related question:
> 
> I have a squeaker about 20 days old and i could swear it has 11 flights on each wing. Is this a good thing or a bad thing? Will it theoretically fly better/faster?


Post a pic


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## hillfamilyloft

When we get enough birds to assess the wing shape in relationship to distance we can look at other physical attributes of the same birds. Mark, "Ace In the Hole" assesses the breast bone, keel and how it is related to the distance the birds are best at. This is a bit harder to assess than the wing. We might have Mark start another post. 
As far as randomness on the post, it is fine, at the end we can organize the winners by distance they placed and wing shape and draw conclusions. A middle school science project in the making. We are now gathering our data.

Hypothesis: Wing shape of a pigeon is related to the distance it is most successful. 
Purpose: To help fanciers assess their breeding and racing of pigeons
Procedures: Take Pics and Compare


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## hillfamilyloft

What we should probably do for categorization is figure what is a sprint bird, middle distance bird, and long distance bird. If anyone has milage suggestions let us know. Do we need more than three categories?


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## hillfamilyloft

http://blog.propigeonloft.com/2012/02/blog-post.html

Her is something we should assess along with the step of the flights. This video makes a lot of sense to me

Southtown's bird using this theory would probably be Middle distance.


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## SouthTown Racers

No, but we need more than 3 pictures I will post some pics of other winning birds by the end of the day.


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## SouthTown Racers

Here is a video of a 300 mile combine winner. It doesnt show the wing very well tho.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saOLu0RhyMI&feature=share&list=UUpR1vrhaDAAo3sA8w-7GrIA


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## ERIC K

This is one of my best breeding hens. She was 1st in a 300 mile race for a friend as a YB. She is Houben/Clausing/Bekeart cross. Mated to a Gordon cock which I will get a picture up too. Produces many top 10 racers for me.All distances. Her babies flew out to 500 miles too. Also produced a baby that as a yearling was first at 400 miles 30 minutes ahead of the 2nd bird .


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## SouthTown Racers

From what has been talked about so far, that birds wing looks like more of a middle distance wing as well.... What do you think? 

Nice looking bird!!


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## ERIC K

This is a Sam Lembo Stichelbaut. A breeding cock bird. Produced 1st place at 200 miles and his babies fly out to 500 miles for me.Mated to Quest / Double T loft cross hen.


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## ERIC K

My top producing Hen ( a gift bird) Her sons won 1st at 300 and 400 miles


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## ERIC K

Mated to my top hen. He is a Hofkens/ E.Lang Miller cross . Son of the 2nd place MIDWEST YB in 2006 for Mystery Loft. This crossing produce my yearling heartland Ace pigeon.


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## ERIC K

RR Meuleman from Mystery loft . Out of top breeders for Richard Erickson. his baby in 2011 for me was equal first at 300 YB race.


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## ERIC K

Out of one of my good racing hen ,she flew many time out to 500 miles. This is one son of two that were many times first bird home alone as a Yb.


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## hillfamilyloft

Wondering if we need measurement or ratios for primaries compared to secondaries. Looking at the pics it seem like we are looking at a bunch of middle distance birds. What does everyone else think.


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## First To Hatch

We need to determine what distances are short, middle, and long. Most birds posted have won 200-400 mile races.


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## First To Hatch

Eric, I like your Sam Lembo silver cock, nice looking bird.


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## ERIC K

This is another breeding cock with offspring that have 300 YB wins. Hofkens/ludo/bandit. This birds mother and father flown out to 600 mile and his mother won many races, and flown 600 miles several times . From the loft of Steve Jenkins.

Most of my birds i would say are middle distance but many can haul the mail in shorter races and will go out to the 500 mile station.


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## raftree3

*My family of birds*

This is a 14 year old cock that's still filling eggs.....on his second round for this year. He won or was top 10 in several races flying in Florida in the GHC against lots of birds from 100 to 400 miles. He is the sire and grand sire of many winners at the same distance. I consider all of these as middle distance birds.


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## raftree3

This is a son of the first bird. He's was a National Ace OB and has produced one as well as many winners from 100 to 400 miles.


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## hillfamilyloft

The first picture is my Wester Slopes Futurity Winner OLR, Maverick DRO 1311. He was the average speed winner also winning 1st at 264 miles. He raced up to 350 miles. The course was up and over Grand Mesa in Co 12K feet.


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## hillfamilyloft

LL 922 She was 1st at 252miles by 7 minutes 364 birds.


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## hillfamilyloft

LL 1002 She was 3rd from 230miles 180birds.


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## raftree3

This is a daughter of the second bird. She went to just three races as a YB this year and had one win at 150 a fourth at 100 and a seventh at 150.


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## hillfamilyloft

This is Charlotte Doo Drop Inn 140 2004. She is one of my foundation hens. She is full Janssen off of two Ganus birds. All 4 grandparents were purchased from the Janssen Bro. Loft. She has bred numerous 1st place birds and her offspring have bred 1st place birds. LL922 is a grand daughter, LL1002 is a great grand daughter. Notice the step on this bird.


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## raftree3

This is another cock that was also a National Ace Pigeon that won from 200 to 400 miles. His mother and the first birds father were siblings. He's produced winners from the same distance.


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## raftree3

This is a daughter of the BB cock. She was Champion YB in our club this year....one of my favorites. She's out of a tremendous hen.


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## hillfamilyloft

Raftree3 the third bird looks like the secondary flights distance from the body is shorter. The video would call this bird more of a sprint bird. Wins at 100 and 150 might confirm this. Like to see the other parent. The other birds looked more middle distance using the video criteria.


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## ERIC K

Randy the two birds with the big step must be your sprinters ? 

Rich's birds look more like mine with the wing extended it's more even.


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## raftree3

Interesting stuff. Be cool if you had the pictures on a big bulletin board so you could move them around and really compare.


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## hillfamilyloft

ERIC K said:


> Randy the two birds with the big step must be your sprinters ?
> 
> Rich's birds look more like mine with the wing extended it's more even.


140 is the Janssen bird know for sprint racing, 1002 is off Kahuna and ACE in The Hole blood. Most of 140 offspring have won from 200 to 300 miles. Strongest from 200-250m. She is bred to a Vic Miller Bird. LL 922 has some Bob Kinney bloodline, more of a Med to Med Long distance line. She does have some 140 blood in her also. Not quite the step. 
The opinions on the step were conflicting on the other wing post. One of the reasons I wanted to show the wings. What is the biggest factor, the step or the distance from the body? Maybe the pics will tell us.


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## ERIC K

hillfamilyloft said:


> 140 is the Janssen bird know for sprint racing, 1002 is off Kahuna and ACE in The Hole blood. Most of 140 offspring have won from 200 to 300 miles. Strongest from 200-250m. She is bred to a Vic Miller Bird. LL 922 has some Bob Kinney bloodline, more of a Med to Med Long distance line. She does have some 140 blood in her also. Not quite the step.
> The opinions on the step were conflicting on the other wing post. One of the reasons I wanted to show the wings. What is the biggest factor, the step or the distance from the body? Maybe the pics will tell us.


Yes I think I can see the med to long distance in LL922 she has the wide secondary feathers I like to see in a bird. Even the shorter flights are wider than the other sprinter bird.


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## ERIC K

The first Grizzle is my Heartland Ace and winner at 300 miles OB , son from the BB hen and Grizzle cock posted before.

The white Grizzle is a daughter out of the white Grizzle breeder and 300 YB winner in 2011, for people that like some color.

It seems that most of my birds wings are very much the same.


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## ERIC K

Rich your birds have more of a knife shape flight , very sharp looking. Have you flown them farther than 400 miles ?


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## raftree3

All of the birds I show are related and that was sort of my point in that there wings are all very similar. I keep interjecting some outcross birds but my goal is to continue to have success at the middle distances. It looks like all of your birds wings are very similar and Randy's seem to have a little more variety.


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## raftree3

hillfamilyloft said:


> Raftree3 the third bird looks like the secondary flights distance from the body is shorter. The video would call this bird more of a sprint bird. Wins at 100 and 150 might confirm this. Like to see the other parent. The other birds looked more middle distance using the video criteria.


"Secondary flights distance from the body is shorter"......could you explain?


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## ERIC K

First To Hatch said:


> Eric, I like your Sam Lembo silver cock, nice looking bird.


Thanks he is a nice bird. I've got many of his young on my OB team, and now grand children too.


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## Eriduardo

I saw this thread and thought This may be of interest. This is the wing of super crack Bayo Casablanca, holds the world record of flying 1064 km over open sea. Which means he flew at least 1000 kilometers over the ocean, on the day! 1064 is over 600 miles. He was bred by Jose Ledesma of the Canary Islands now owner of the Derby Arona Tenerife One Loft Race.


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## hillfamilyloft

raftree3 said:


> "Secondary flights distance from the body is shorter"......could you explain?


The video I posted earlier explains it better than I could ever.


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## Lovelace

raftree3 that is on nice looking wing.


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## ERIC K

Eriduardo said:


> I saw this thread and thought This may be of interesting. This is the wing of super crack Bayo Casablanca, holds the world record of flying 1064 km over open sea. Which means he flew at least 1000 kilometers over the ocean, on the day! 1064 is over 600 miles. He was bred by Jose Ledesma of the Canary Islands now owner of the Derby Arona Tenerife One Loft Race.


I would have to say that's a nice looking wing on a very nice looking long distance pigeon. Nothing like a great race record to prove something.


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## triple7loft

Yep that is for real fly or die !!!



ERIC K said:


> I would have to say that's a nice looking wing on a very nice looking long distance pigeon. Nothing like a great race record to prove something.


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## First To Hatch

Hey Jason, post a picture of Super 40's wing if you can!

I'll take a couple pictures but it was too cold to do it today.


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## Roger Siemens

i m starting to see a slight difference in the last flights, three or four on each bird. is that what you look for in the steps


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## Roger Siemens

i can also see that the shape of the flights is quite a bit different , from thicker to thin on short to middle birds than another change in shape for 500mile birds?


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## triple7loft

If I had a good camera I would be all over it I tried to take a picture of a bird I got from Frank McLaughlin that flew the 2010 South African Million Race and finished with a wing that looks almost like Randys DollarCharlotte Doo Drop Inn 140. This pigeon has several white flights on one of his wings and he made it with two of the white flights the 5th and 6th pretty much just quill...



First To Hatch said:


> Hey Jason, post a picture of Super 40's wing if you can!
> 
> I'll take a couple pictures but it was too cold to do it today.


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## hillfamilyloft

triple7loft said:


> If I had a good camera I would be all over it I tried to take a picture of a bird I got from Frank McLaughlin that flew the 2010 South African Million Race and finished with a wing that looks almost like Randys DollarCharlotte Doo Drop Inn 140. This pigeon has several white flights on one of his wings and he made it with two of the white flights the 5th and 6th pretty much just quill...


I just used my cell phone. Worked great.


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## triple7loft

i tried with the POS phone I have and you couldnt see nothing plus tried to get the wife to hold the bird and that went over like a turd in a punch bowl...

Here is a link to his placements though.........

Just type Spartacus in the search area.....

http://2010.scmdpr.com/index.php?ar...5e390e2d4dcdad97496bfdb93e064696a9d9da492e7d1


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## V-John

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg110/V-John/20130217_154801_zpsd49c5d10.jpg

I have no idea on the lineage of this bird, just that he was gifted to me from PA. He won a 200 mile race, my first race winner ever. 

This is the second place bird in that same race.

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg110/V-John/20130217_155117_zps16230cbe.jpg

I know the spread isnt good in the pictures but i was trying to take picture and hold the bird at the same time.


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## raftree3

V-John said:


> http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg110/V-John/20130217_154801_zpsd49c5d10.jpg
> 
> I have no idea on the lineage of this bird, just that he was gifted to me from PA. He won a 200 mile race, my first race winner ever.
> 
> This is the second place bird in that same race.
> 
> http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg110/V-John/20130217_155117_zps16230cbe.jpg
> 
> I know the spread isnt good in the pictures but i was trying to take picture and hold the bird at the same time.


Not sure how you managed that John but nice job. I got my wife to take the pictures after I tried doing it by myself.


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## ERIC K

V-John I don't want to pick on your pigeon but it looks like the first bird had some stress when growing his flights . You can see it in the waves in the feathers. Not real sure how that will effect his flying though.


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## ERIC K

I was talking to a great flyer tonight and he was telling me that no matter what the wing looks like , everyone needs to know their birds as to what distance they can handle and the only way to know this is to fly them at that distance. 

Anyway love all the pictures so please keep them coming. This is a great thread.


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## V-John

Erik,, I appreciate any feedback. As a new guy, the more I can learn, the beter... So, thanks. 
Rich it was a trick, but thankfully the first bird was pretty calm. The second, not so much.


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## ERIC K

V-John , It happens to us all I have some feathers with a small waves , the bigger the wave the less the feather works properly. 

On a different note the old timers say that a bird that will leave its wing extended like that is a good long distance bird. Another theory .


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## V-John

ERIC K said:


> V-John , It happens to us all I have some feathers with a small waves , the bigger the wave the less the feather works properly.
> 
> On a different note the old timers say that a bird that will leave its wing extended like that is a good long distance bird. Another theory .


Thanks for the heads up. What causes this? Stress? What kind of stress? Thanks!


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## raftree3

I just looked at your pictures again and I think you have the wing pressed against the table which makes it look like the feathers aren't perfect. Babies will get "fret marks" if they miss a feeding or some other stressful event but it usually rights itself with the moult. Breeders can sometime get a little beat up when you first put them together this time of year.....maybe a little nutrition problem, who knows. If its a bird you plan to race this year I'd cut and pull them and hope they come back better.


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## ERIC K

Sometimes that will happen when the bird is growing like Rich said and has a set back or improper feed or not finding the water right away at weaning, or getting chilled at two weeks of age. Some people have told me that can happen when feathers are cut and pulled too and the bird is not fully grown so there is stress of training and the body growth and the feather growth at the same time. More than once I have been told that a feather cut and pulled in a young bird will cause the new feathers to grow in 1/2 inch shorter than if it were normal moult. I have read that if a young bird spends a tough night or two out of the loft and fall ill could effect its feather growth but it should moult the problem away so the next years feathers will be normal.


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## SouthTown Racers

I came across this picture of different wing shapes on Facebook.


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## ERIC K

Great pictures. I would guess that the blue bar on the right would be the best long distance and as the end flights get wider the bird would be more middle distance except for the small picture on the bottom left , that looks more like one of Hill's sprinters wing.


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## triple7loft

Here is the wing of a hen she was equal 1st 300 miles Lucky 17 one loft race..Ganus/Janssen/Hofken Cross


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## raftree3

Sounds like you've got some nice birds Jason. I'm enjoying this thread and have been going through my birds and looking at all their wings and comparing that to their performance. got any snow down there yet?


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## triple7loft

We got the sleet and hail and got lucky the snow is around Oklahoma city
But the cold and wind are sure here..
I will try this week end to take a few more pictures of some more wings.


raftree3 said:


> Sounds like you've got some nice birds Jason. I'm enjoying this thread and have been going through my birds and looking at all their wings and comparing that to their performance. got any snow down there yet?


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## First To Hatch

I am off from work tomorrow, it'll be my goal to get some pictures up here.


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## triple7loft

Yea I will try to get a few more pictures Sunday I hope..




First To Hatch said:


> I am off from work tomorrow, it'll be my goal to get some pictures up here.


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## grunt45

This is an awesome thread thanks for all the information everyone!


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## triple7loft

Here is the wing of the South African Pigeon sorry it isnt that great I took all the photos myself boy was that fun 












Here is the wing of a 250 concourse winner..
Smokin Joe, Jan Arden top secret breeding so says my buddy.....










Here is a inbreed bold ruler hen she is from a mother to son breeding son was a OLR winner...


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## SouthTown Racers

Here is the wing of another 200 mile combine winner("CHECKERED FLAG"). He was ahead about 3 minutes, but he didnt scan into the Eclock and I didnt realize it. He ended up (on the race sheet) 4th =1st. He is a grandson of "SURE BET" on the top of the ped and a grandson of "HAMMER" (sure bets son) on the bottom of the ped. This is the sire of BEL 2012 99...winner of 2nd place and $600 in a band race!! 99 was spooked by a hawk when she got home and sat on the roof for 20 minutes before she trapped. She was way out front and should have been 
1st by a long shot!! SOUNDMAJORR now is the owner of BEL 99


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## nancybird

The markings are very pretty.


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## SouthTown Racers




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## nancybird

SouthTown Racers said:


> Here is the wing of another 200 mile combine winner. He was ahead about 3 minutes, but he didnt scan into the Eclock and I didnt realize it. He ended up (on the race sheet) 4th =1st. He is a grandson of "SURE BET" on the top of the ped and a grandson of "HAMMER" (sure bets son) on the bottom of the ped. This is the sire of BEL 2012 99...winner of $600 in a band race!! 99 was spooked by a hawk when she got home and sat on the roof for 20 minutes before she trapped. She was way out front and should have been
> 1st by a long shot!! SOUNDMAJORR now is the owner of BEL 99


Very nice looking bird


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## SouthTown Racers

This is "SARAH" the mate to the above cock and the dam to SOUNDMAJORRS BEL 99


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## soundmajorr

Hey Matt. I like the way both the sire and dam look of my Bell 99. It's interesting to see the difference in the wings from sire and dam and now see how her babies wings look. Her babies wings look more like the sire. But both nice looking birds.


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## SouthTown Racers

soundmajorr said:


> Hey Matt. I like the way both the sire and dam look of my Bell 99. It's interesting to see the difference in the wings from sire and dam and now see how her babies wings look. Her babies wings look more like the sire. But both nice looking birds.


Is there any way you could post a pic of 99 and her wing? Maybe a pic of her babys wing too...


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## nancybird

Sarah is a very pretty bird.


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## SouthTown Racers

nancybird said:


> Sarah is a very pretty bird.


Thank you!! She is a bird that catches the eye when you walk in the loft


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## soundmajorr

the first picture is of bell 99. the next two are of one her babies. i took the pictures by myself so bare with me lol.


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## soundmajorr

these next two pictures are of bell 99's other baby. the white flight splash come from the dad. he is a blue check white flight splash.


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## soundmajorr

i apologize but its not letting me upload the wing of the other baby. says i exceeded my limit.


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## First To Hatch

Yea who knew it was so hard to take a wing picture, I was holding the bird but they couldn't even get a wing picture, I was pissed.

Matt I REALLY like the wing on that hen.


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## soundmajorr

/Users/macuser/Desktop/bell99.JPG


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## soundmajorr

/Users/macuser/Desktop/bellbaby2.JPG

sorry for all the post. but this should work. just put the above address into your address bar and it will come up.
Yeah it is difficult to take the pictures yourself. anytime you get a decent pose the bird moves.


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## SouthTown Racers

Here is the QUEEN of my loft "STARS FALL"


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## soundmajorr

That's a very nice wing Matt. Straight all the way across and curves off at the end. How do the babies do for you?


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## SouthTown Racers

soundmajorr said:


> That's a very nice wing Matt. Straight all the way across and curves off at the end. How do the babies do for you?


All they do is WIN!! She breeds nothing but winners and breeders of winners...I owe 99% of my success to her!!


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## triple7loft

Nice I am going to work on getting a better camera Nice pigeons Matt


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## soundmajorr

That's great to hear. I'm Hoping to get my hands on a bird like that lol. Shes down from ganus right? What family?


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## SouthTown Racers

soundmajorr said:


> That's great to hear. I'm Hoping to get my hands on a bird like that lol. Shes down from ganus right? What family?


She is Ganus (hollywood/president) on the dams side. The sire is a imported Ad Shaerlakens (sp) bird.


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## soundmajorr

I should have known it was down from Hollywood lol. Your a Hollywood type of guy haha. Curious to hear what you like doing on breeding. Do you like in breeding, crossing, or just best to best.


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## SouthTown Racers

Here is her #1 breeding son (STARS FALL) he has bred money and combine winners!


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## SouthTown Racers




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## soundmajorr

He has the identical wing as his mom does.


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## SouthTown Racers

This is his eye for those of you who like eyesign.


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## SouthTown Racers

soundmajorr said:


> I should have known it was down from Hollywood lol. Your a Hollywood type of guy haha. Curious to hear what you like doing on breeding. Do you like in breeding, crossing, or just best to best.


Well, this year, Im crossing most of my inbred Hollywoods onto my children and grandchildren of stars fall.


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## First To Hatch

SEE!!! Thats that wing that I keep talking about!!! The wing that Stars Fall and her son has is the only type of wing that I will let breed in my loft, why? Because every winner, or my best birds at the end of year all have that kind of wing!!!


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## hillfamilyloft

SouthTown Racers said:


> All they do is WIN!! She breeds nothing but winners and breeders of winners...I owe 99% of my success to her!!


If you could put the wins in a distance range what would that be for these birds. Maybe the distance with the most wins.


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## SouthTown Racers

hillfamilyloft said:


> If you could put the wins in a distance range what would that be for these birds. Maybe the distance with the most wins.


Most of the success with these bird has been in the 150-250 range. This year Im really trying to add some more distance in the Stars Fall birds. I cant wait to see how they do in the 250-300 mile races this year.


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## soundmajorr

Just based off pictures of the wings. The straighter the wing, and the shorter the main flights are, looks like the more speed the bird has. The longer the main flights are the more distance the bird has. Again this is just based off pictures. I'd be interested in knowing how your mixing of distance into these lines go.


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## First To Hatch

SouthTown Racers said:


> Most of the success with these bird has been in the 150-250 range. This year Im really trying to add some more distance in the Stars Fall birds. I cant wait to see how they do in the 250-300 mile races this year.


I have long distance birds...all go back to 500 mile winners. I do well from 100-250 miles with the birds but I can't get them right for 300, I think I just need to learn how to set them up for it, hopefully I get it right. I figure when I loose a race by 10 minutes, I'm doing something wrong!


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## soundmajorr

First to hatch, when you say set them up are you referring to how you feed them, training the birds, or both?


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## First To Hatch

EVERYTHING. Feed, training during the week, what should I put in the water and how much (I normally do ACV Sunday, vitamins Monday-Wednesday, electrolytes Thursday-Saturday). And even motivation.


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## Josepe

Matt,
Beautiful birds.The eye on the Stars Fall son,isn't that what is called a Star Burst in the outer corelation?
I've added a few new birds to the breeding loft this year that I hope will give me some 350/400 mile birds.A Jan/Hofken/Van Loon cock from Carrol Hoover and a pair of pure old line Calia Janssens from Barry Venn.


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## soundmajorr

http://www.pipa.be/en/newsandarticles/pigeonandloft/short-distance-racing

Hey guys i thought this was the perfect link for what we are talking about. Opened up PIPA this morning and they gave a description and picture of what a sprint pigeon should look like.


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## triple7loft

Nice find ......



soundmajorr said:


> http://www.pipa.be/en/newsandarticles/pigeonandloft/short-distance-racing
> 
> Hey guys i thought this was the perfect link for what we are talking about. Opened up PIPA this morning and they gave a description and picture of what a sprint pigeon should look like.


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## rangeview

What a beautiful wing - 10 flight longer than 9th? A personal selection point 

Step from Secondaries to Primaries. Step to last four primaries which are tapered toward the end with a slight outward curve. 

Beautiful 

Ian


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## ERIC K

your bird's wing looks a lot like Randy's bird in post 33. Is that a sprinter too?


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## hillfamilyloft

They look very similar. I do see a difference in the ratio of the length of the secondary flights from the body to the end of the wing. In other words the last birds primaries start a bit closer to the body. In the video earlier in the post they would say the last bird is more of a sprinter. Not sure this to be true but their is about a 1: 1.5 ratio in the post 33 bird of mine of the length of the width of the secondaries to the width of the primaries. The last bird maybe a 1: 1.75 ratio. Who knows? This family of birds is strong from 200 to 300 on the top end. You may call them speed middle distance if you were to give them a label. The post 33 bird is a cross between my Kahuna blood and Mark's 54 blood.


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## hillfamilyloft

Ian
What distance is that bird strongest at?


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## rangeview

OOPS!!! this is the same wing. Sorry for the confusion, seems the info was lost when I did not copy the complete post.

I see a similar wing in the Eijerkamp (sp) bred 2013 MDPR winner. Link in another post on this site.


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## rangeview

rangeview;
I see a similar wing in the Eijerkamp (sp) bred 2013 MDPR winner. Link in another post on this site. 11 flights?? [/QUOTE said:


>


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## rangeview

*General wings selection.*

Taken from Dr Rob Marshall's Pigeon Health book.


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## rangeview

*Derby Arona semi final winners wings - interesting*

British flyers doing well

Click small image and then scroll down in the pop up for larger view.

Every wing is similar .... horses for courses?

http://www.derbyatlantic.com/resultadosderby2013/raceMIh201331001.htm


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## SouthTown Racers

GREAT info Rangeview!! Thank you!!


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## HmoobH8wj

What ya think?
Pedigree is under video info.

http://youtu.be/GKEtHOOu0_k


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## Crazy Pete

Thanks for the info, I didn't know the US could send birds there.
Dave


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## HmoobH8wj

what type of wing is this?

short distance
mid distance
long distance
sprint wing

http://youtu.be/9PWTA7mx45I


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## SouthTown Racers

HmoobH8wj said:


> what type of wing is this?
> 
> short distance
> mid distance
> long distance
> sprint wing
> 
> http://youtu.be/9PWTA7mx45I


Looks to me like a middle to longer distance wing. That is a nice looking bird!! What is he?


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## HmoobH8wj

idk. one day i was just road training and it just it flow with my flock that morning to my loft. i got it and email that guys about the bird. he told me i can have it but he wont tell me what line and family it came from. i toss him out couples of time with my flock but he never fly always. so i just this is his home now. =D lucky me


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## raftree3

Nice to see you on this forum. If you're not familiar Andy, he's had some serious success in the past as well as judging a time or two. As far as the pictures go I'm not so sure it's not in their heart and head every bit as much as what their wings look like.


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## Roger Siemens

white flights are weeker? thanks for posting all the pictures, i kinda like to look at the form of my birds and compare them to mine.


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## HmoobH8wj

is this going to be an issue for the bird to fly? the bird is still young. you think the bird will molt out those flight out? what should i do?


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## hillfamilyloft

I would think they could be cut an pulled. Should grow in by young bird season. If not that bird would be at a huge disadvantage. You could wait until it molted, but would probably loose the bird in training.


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## SouthTown Racers




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## lmorales4

So what has to be by the Xs? The wing?


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## ERIC K

I would say the X is the start of the joint of the upper part of the wing, but I would just be guessing at that and if this has any merit it seams that there is very little separating a 500 mile bird to a 1000 mile bird but who flies 1000 miles any more to prove it.


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## Cody_MFL

2013 2nd place bird in the N.B One Loft Race.


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## Josepe

One Nice Bird.


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## Cody_MFL

Not a winner, 2013 6th N.B One Loft Race 12 MFL 508 Tournier Blood.


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## james de dios

Dear Brother in Pigeon,

I am James from the Philippines, I just want to ask what is the meaning or classification of a Hard Day Wing? I hope you can help me since I have 4 Young breed who has a Hard day wing.


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## james de dios

*Hard Day Wing*



SouthTown Racers said:


> Here is MTP 12 2446 BB H "BLUE STAR" Daughter of STARS FALL x WORM 1st place MO/IL Combine 200 miles 508 Birds.



Hi Friends in Pigeon,

Can I ask what is the meaning of a HARD DAY WING of a pigeon?


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## james de dios

*hard day wing*



Cody_MFL said:


> 2013 2nd place bird in the N.B One Loft Race.


Hi Sir,

Can I ask what is the meaning of a HARD DAY wing?


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## james de dios

*Hard Day Wing*



SouthTown Racers said:


>


Sir,

Can I ask what is the meaning of a HARD DAY WING of a pigeon?


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