# Excessive Pigeon Pee



## missH (Aug 6, 2018)

I thought I already posted along note about my pigeon having excessive pee- but it seems as if I don't know how to post things correctly - so this is the very short new version. Several weeks - 7+ year old NYC pigeon (hand raised from a broken nest baby) - living in cage and happy, healthy until recently having masses of pigeon pee on paper lining cage bottom (paper changed 3x a day) - other than that bird seems ok, still being fed by hand with pigeon/dove/quail seed. Sometimes he'll eat thawed green peas by himself - but this excessive pee is worrying - any thoughts as to what might be causing this?


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Has he been drinking more water than usual? The peas also contain lots of water. I would remove the peas for a couple of days and only stick to seeds. Check his droppings over the next couple of days to see if there's an improvement.

Otherwise, try to get hold of a decent avian vet.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Hi, it's hard to say what is wrong, there could be different options. 

Can you find birds probiotics? In case it's an intestinal flora disorder they could be helpful.
Any change in his diet or in his daily routine (like moving the cage somewhere else, etc)? In the last week did you treat him with antibiotics or others medications? Stress, antibiotics could cause an intestinal flora disorder. 

I don't know what product you can find there but my vet gave me a product (it's French) containing B-glucans and mannan oligosaccharides which is really helpful in case of problems concerning intestinal flora. 

This is another product (Probi-Zyme Oropharma Versele Laga):

https://www.versele-laga.com/en/oropharma/produkte/oropharma-probi-zyme

If I'm not wrong in your other thread you asked about vitamins. Something similar to Omni-vit Oropharma would be good because it contains vitamins, trace elements and amino acids. 

https://www.versele-laga.com/en/oropharma/produkte/oropharma-omni-vit


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## Ladygrey (Dec 10, 2016)

Drinking more water than usual can cause watery droppings, esp if a bath pan is offered. But there could be a reason he is drinking more fluids..


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## missH (Aug 6, 2018)

*still too much pee*

I've tried feeding him less thinking maybe I was over-feeding him, but no difference. I only added peas to his diet after he had been turning the floor of the cage into a shallow swimming pool of pee. He still seems ok - I have sent away for pigeon vitamins after I decided what I had been giving him for years (for all birds) might not be right for him. He generally only eats peas when he is molting, but he is eating them now as I'm hand feeding him less seed. The seed cup in his cage is only used for pooping in and flapping seeds all over the place, never for eating. I don't have a bird vet - upper east side of Manhattan - any bird Vet suggestions?


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## Friend John (Jun 10, 2018)

Maybe one of these options will help:

St. Marks Veterinary Hospital

(212) 477-2688
348 E 9th St, NY, NY 10003
(between 1st and 2nd Ave)
http://stmarksvet.com/

The Center For Avian & Exotic Medicine

562 Columbus Avenue
New York, NY 10024 3636
Phone: (212) 257-3807 
https://avianandexoticvets.com/contact

Best Avian Vets in Manhattan, NY (Yelp)
https://www.yelp.com/search?find_desc=Avian Vet&find_loc=Manhattan, New York, NY

Recommended Bird Vets (Avian Veterinarians) in New York, United States
https://www.beautyofbirds.com/recommendedbirdvetsnewyork.html


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## missH (Aug 6, 2018)

thanks for the vet suggestions - the Columbus Ave place is mighty pricey - $120 for a visit, other places not located easily with no car. Since Aldo seems to be continuing with the pee but surviving all right - I'll have to wait a while. I've got new Pigeon vitamins arriving soon, and later this month some probiotic type feed from Spain (of all places) - he is an older bird but still looks good and acts lively. Hope to see him recover on his own with a little help. Thanks to everyone - I'll keep you updated as to his progress.


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## Ladygrey (Dec 10, 2016)

missH said:


> thanks for the vet suggestions - the Columbus Ave place is mighty pricey - $120 for a visit, other places not located easily with no car. Since Aldo seems to be continuing with the pee but surviving all right - I'll have to wait a while. I've got new Pigeon vitamins arriving soon, and later this month some probiotic type feed from Spain (of all places) - he is an older bird but still looks good and acts lively. Hope to see him recover on his own with a little help. Thanks to everyone - I'll keep you updated as to his progress.


The amount of fluid you are describing could be serious. If he is drinking excessively. He could have kidney problems , liver renal disease. 

I think you should find a way to find out with the vet so you can do what is recommended to help this medical condition.


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## missH (Aug 6, 2018)

I got some bird probiotic tabs which dissolve in his water (good for doves so pigeon ok too I assume since Aldo technically is named as a Rock Dove! or as some prefer, a New York pigeon) - He doesn't seem to want to drink it so I have been giving him eye dropper drinks several times a day. Poop seems very dry until I give him his drinks them he gives off some pee - but nothing compared to what was going on. It's a 6 day treatment and we have only 2 more days and then I'll put him back on regular water and we'll see how he does. Thanks to you all -


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Maybe he doesn't like the taste or the color of the probiotic tabs (if it has a color, of course).
One of my pigeon didn't want to drink the water enriched with vitamins because it looked yellowish. In case he just doesn't like the color you could put the water in a dark bowl (like a dark blue bowl) so he can't see it. 

If the poops are very dry until you give him water, surely he isn't drinking on his own. Be careful he doesn't get dehydrated. Also be careful in using the eye dropper.

Please keep us updated, I really hope Aldo will feel better soon.


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## beachwood45789 (Jul 15, 2014)

Hi , why dont you try getting some real pigeon feed for him, frozen peas are not good for him i lived in nyc for 60 years there are pet shops all over the place, you can go to shoprite and buy him some pop corn orvil reddenbacher the one that comes in a jar make sure it contains no salt he will love it, take a ride on the subway the one that goes over the williamsburg bridge it runs on broadway in b'klyn get off at halsey st there are several pet shops that sell pigeon supplies, the pet shop in b'klyn phone#718-443-3500 it is located at 1622 broadway go to www.newyorkbirdsupply.net ask them if they sell milo,safflower seed,maple peas,corn phone#800-772-2473 make sure he has grit parakeet grit will do in a pinch and get him electrolytes that will help with the loose poop give it to him for 3 days if you can get some wild bird food that also will help


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## missH (Aug 6, 2018)

*Aldo gets fed real seed*

Short answer to everyone - I feed Aldo "Pigeon, Dove and Quail mix" seed and yes he eats grit - but does not feed himself anything but peas, I have to open his beak and put seed in and water twice a day (he drinks water in between, but not excessively) My brother brought him up as a baby and Aldo still expects to be fed or will not eat at all. Probiotic seemed to help but now excessive pee is back - I have booked appointment for Wednesday at Avian and Exotic Vets in NYC - we'll see what they say. I'll let you know.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

I'm sorry to hear that the excessive pee is back. Let us know what the vet will say. 
In any case, remember to periodically give him the probiotic treatment (is it a monthly treatment?). 

I know that these are 2 different situations but one of my*PMV pigeons had watery poop. I monthly treated him with probiotics (the ones containing B-glucans and mannan oligosaccharides) and a natural supplement (which protects the digestive system, helps to regulate the transit and provides a protection from parasitic infestation of coccidies) containing garlic and others plants (like thyme, tanacetum vulgaris, echinacea purpurea, triganella faenum graecum) plus manganese and zinc. After a few months he stopped with watery poop. 

I also want to add that clay could help a bit in case of watery poop, you could look for a pigeon pickstone/picking block (blocks are also good sources of calcium) containing it. I will explain you how to cut it, you can easily hand feed it. 
Btw everyday I have to hand feed my 2 disabled birds (my blind pigeon and my PMV pigeon). I use a sort of "small shovel" : I take a magazine with a good cover, I cut a small rectangle from it and bend it (I can post a photo if you want to see it).

You could add to your seed mix dry legumes like small lentils and mung beans (the ones for humans that you can buy at supermarket). Legumes are really important for a balanced diet.

Please keep us updated. I really hope that Aldo will feel better soon.


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## Ladygrey (Dec 10, 2016)

missH said:


> Short answer to everyone - I feed Aldo "Pigeon, Dove and Quail mix" seed and yes he eats grit - but does not feed himself anything but peas, I have to open his beak and put seed in and water twice a day (he drinks water in between, but not excessively) My brother brought him up as a baby and Aldo still expects to be fed or will not eat at all. Probiotic seemed to help but now excessive pee is back - I have booked appointment for Wednesday at Avian and Exotic Vets in NYC - we'll see what they say. I'll let you know.


They will eat their favorites out of a seed mix first, they eat the rest if it is left or given back as the next feeding as is, they will eventually get hungry enough to eat it. Over fed pigeons and spoiled pigeons will eat only their favorites if they are allowed.


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## missH (Aug 6, 2018)

*Aldo went for a blood test*

Well I finally bit the bullet and went to the Avian and Exotic Vets - exam was $120. They wanted to do a blood test for $195 - we didn't do it but a week later we went back and did a blood test as well as a crop swab ($75) which was suggested by a JustAnser Avian vet. Here are the results: So we got the gram stains and swab back for Aldo and they were pretty normal. The bloodwork showed Normal red and white blood cell counts, so no anemia or infections overtly present. The chemistry showed normal kidney values, but the liver values were elevated. The calcium was also a bit low, which is not surprising considering he has not eaten pelleted food for most of his life. So at this point the elevated liver values could be from anything from a low level infection, primary liver disease (such as liver tumors, fatty liver or toxin ingestion) leading to decreased liver functional capacity. So at this point I strongly encourage you to change his diet to more pellet based rather than fatty seed based. I would also encourage you to be a bit more stoic about converting him to eating on his own. As I recall he can eat peas on his own, and thus the instinct is there, he justly likely has never had the need to eat on his own accord. As far as his liver goes, we should start him on a more pelleted diet and a liver antioxidant, and then recheck his liver values in 1 month. If they remain high, the next step would be to do imaging (X-rays, ultrasound etc) to try to determine the cause of the liver issues.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Thanks for the update.

Let us know about the next test. Try to change his diet and to encourage him to eat on his own as suggested by the vet; I hope the liver values do not remain high with the dietary changes and the liver antioxidant.

There are water soluble calcium supplements, you could ask to the vet if it could be helpful to give it to Aldo.

https://www.versele-laga.com/en/oropharma/produkte/oropharma-calci-lux

Please keep us updated.


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