# How to move pigeons to outdoor cages?



## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Hi! My doctor has asked me to move our three pigeons outside because of my lung problems. We have three pigeons, Fiona, Lucy, and Tracy in separate flight cages. My significant other wants to put them ion the patio inside a glass or plastic greenhouse. I'm afraid they would cook in that in the summer. think a covered dog run or shed would be safer in terms of predators, ventilation, and all but that wouldn't keep them warm. Our weather ranges from 25 in the winter to over 100 degrees in the summer. I have a respirator now but the birds are in three different rooms so there is pigeon bloom everywhere in the house despite my attempts to clean. I would rather keep them than rehome them but I had a positive response to pigeon antigen and mold --mold is probably from work--on a blood test. I don't know levels of exposure, just that I had a hypersensitivity response. We have three fairly good air cleaners in the house but obviously that is not enough. We are not real handy at building things and I need to do something very soon to move our beloved birds outside. Any suggestions? Thanks.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

I would hire a "handiman" or carpenter that is good at building things and would build a small loft and a "flypen" with hard wire that is buried under the ground as well as slanted on top. I would also add a second door for security and a area to keep a heater as well. Also air supply and exhaust needs to be considered as well. On this website they have wonderful pictures and links on loft building and all kinds too. I would price all the materials first---2.4, 1/4 hard wire , panels, insulation, fans,----a good carpenter could help you with all of this---I would hire one and build my own with my own design..Or you could buy one of those storage buildings and put a concrete pad out there and tie it down real good. Just ideas here...It is hard work beginning something like this but the satisfaction when it is properly working is "wonderful"...Think as if you are buying a "used car"...money wise...It is a very good investment for our type of hobby and you could make it just beautiful enhancing your property and yard...


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

c.hert, sounds good. Have to get it accomplished very soon though. Will check out what you have suggested and see what I can do. Time is of the essence.


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

A small outdoor structure would be a good for your pigeons and your health as well. I moved mine out several years ago and all 8 are very happy. I have a small coop with 8 cages to help with clean up and they go in the outdoor aviary (modified dog kennel) in the day when temps are above freezing for the day. I have a small space heater inside coop in winter. Insulated plastic in front and door during our cold harsh winters in Nebraska.You can see the picture of our "Tooterville" structure here!


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## Lefty07 (Dec 30, 2009)

I would try and find a pigeon fancier to take your pigeons, temporarily, while your figure out outdoor accommodations for them. You don't want to fool around with your health. I have a friend whose husband developed severe bird allergies and they didn't even have that many birds - but in the end, they ALL had to go from the house, despite air cleaners and isolating them. She gave me their parakeet because even he had to go, which broke their hearts.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

A small shed would be the easiest way, and you could fix it up the way you want it. Build an aviary to go outside in, with a window that leads to it, so that you can just open the window to let them outside, and close it up at night. Look around for a small shed that would work for you. Sometimes you can catch good sales.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Thanks to everyone. Am looking around for housing options. Lovely parakeet, sad story.


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## Whytpigeon (Sep 14, 2015)

Home improvement stores have sheds for sale , if adapted with an aviary they can work .


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Still looking for a shed with windows or greenhouse or dog run. Haven't found any used lofts or walkin aviaries. Am looking for a local maker but they are extremely expensive where I live and don't have options like ventilation and heating. Am wondering how to pair the pigeons. Each is in her own cage right now. Fiona, who loves me and lays constantly, is in a six foot flight cage. Lucy is afraid and is only bonded to other pigeons is in a six foot flight cage. Tracy our newest pigeon is an obviously indoor bird who is bonded to people but is in a 3 by two foot cage and needs a bigger home. We also have a scrub jay in a two by three foot cage who is wild and crazy. Should I pair up the three pigeons or two of them or just get Tracy a larger cage? Could try putting two together...the flight cages have dividers I could use until I'm sure they get along. Besides personality conflicts, am worried because Fiona and Lucy have low to moderate coccidia levels all the time despite treatment, and Tracy is free of coccidia. I hate to expose her. I also hate to lose the human to bird bond I have with Fiona and Tracy who love people but know Lucy would be overjoyed to be back with another pigeon as she is not bonded to people. My dr wants me to move the birds outside as soon as possible but am agonizing. Can't clean the house well as long as there are birds in a bedroom, living room, and bathroom. Am very sad I can't spend time with them like I used to without a respirator mask. Any suggestions?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*It may take time to find exactly what you are looking , and I think it is a really good idea if you can locate a local flyer or a local bird rescue to possibly house them temporarily.*


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Would love to find a local flyer or rescue. Unfortunately the only local rescue euthanizes pigeons. That is why we adopted Phoebe because the wildlife rescue just kills pigeons. The breeder we purchased poor deceased Chloe from is disabled and has his hands full. She had circovirus and malaria so think he has real problems with husbandry...he has at least a hundred and they live with chickens and he lets the birds out with ferals to fly. Lucy we adopted from an 84 year old who is trying to rehome his birds because his wife is on dialysis and judging from his breathing, it sounds like he has pigeon lung too. Tracy came from a bird show. The man who had her is in his 80s and had lost his wife and practically begged us to take her. There are people who race birds but they seem ok with just culling the losers and producing winners so are not interested in our three pet quality birds. So will just keep looking for a way to get them outside. Have placed ads different places and am trying to find a suitable outdoor house. May ask a shed company to build a shed with barred or wire windows, a roof fan, then put a heater inside? Am wondering whether to put the pigeons in one or two flight cages inside a predator proof simple wooden shed or dog run because that would be the quickest fix. Don't know if they will get along but hope so, three female adults.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

If you want to spend about 5,000 you could have a loft built and sent to you already ready to go on your concrete pad or grading. This is a pigeon loft that is 8x10 . But like I suggested before hire a carpenter and have one built --this would be a lot cheaper and it would be by your design..Move those pigeons outside in a loft and fly. Or if you want to get entirely "out of birds" then maybe call Elizabeth from Mickaboo for help..She is separate now from them and has another name but can be e-mailed from here. Sorry about your health condition that is promoting all this thinking. You could also dedicate a bedroom out of your house and put a real good ventalation system in there are well as air filters. I suggest a carpenter and move them all outside and this would make a big difference and put them all together and they will find their "perch area", it would be fun designing as well. Just do it---ask your friends to recommend someone or call up builders and ask them to suggest someone and keep calling people until you get just the right one..You state the problem but don't solve it...even with suggestions that were given. People need imput on how your mind is working and not just stating the problem---what do you want...? I just saw your last posting and I am reading it now...


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

c.hert, I want to try to keep the birds, inside one or more flight cages inside a larger structure so we can put a chair inside and visit with them outside their cages inside the shed. An eight by ten shed might work. I don't have 5,000 right now so am looking for possibilities locally. Most of the local companies make metal sheds or wood sheds without windows, for storage. Am also working full time, cleaning several hours per day, packing away stuff in rubbermaids to declutter and reduce dust from knickknacks, and going to medical tests and appts plus taking care of all our pets four hours per day. So this is taking longer than I had hoped. Will just not write anymore I guess until I have a solution.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

The problem that I see is "once you get rid of these three birdies and find a good home"---you with your big heart will take in some more to help...You need a loft outside and flypen and a real ready made one could be bought from Horizons builders but it is 5000 but they move it to your location. I have a old Foys catalog where I could send you a picture of it and it looks pretty decent and it is 8x10 But a much cheaper way I believe would be to go to Home Depot or the other place "can't remember the name"---and look at those sheds that they have outside and make your own but even with this you will need a carpenter and if you have them put it together you still need to design it as a pigeon loft and this can turn into "work" for you have to redesign with their original way of having it and having to design by that and in the end you would not save much....If you want your birds hire a carpenter and let us help you design so that you can tell the carpenter what exactly you want..If you don't want them no longer then call Elizabethy and e-mail her on here---she is wonderful and will work with you and maybe even suggest something.. I would help you and take them but I have my hands full right now....Your would really enjoy a loft and fly pen and if you do it just the right way it would not take you long to tend to them each day....Us all could help you with that to make it efficient and they have good masks and overcoats where you could protect yourself. But this ties you down and a pigeon keepers job is hard work over time and one has to be dedicated to this...I tried years ago to give pigeons away to my feed store because I got the flu and was soooo sick and feeling terrible so I decided after that to get out of pigeons...I drove the four to the place and I cried and missed them so bad and drove back to the place and I was very lucky and got them all back and so glad to have them back all but one---who I thought was a wild pigeon and I released him to give him freedom...I just wished him "Luck"---well in a few days I take out the trash and here he is on the ground and not flying and weak ready to die--so I ushered him into the gate and garage (did not have fly loft yet)----and brought him into the house---and he and I got well together...That is Speckles and he is alive today and his mate is Saddleback out there in the loft...Just sharing a story because I know it is a big decision...Hire a carpenter and build your own....My suggestion...If you do it will be a hobby for the rest of your life because it is "on going", unless you solve the situation in other ways...A pigeon raisers job is never done and it hard work,,,


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

c.hert, I have no desire to get rid of the three pigeons or the scrub jay. Will keep trying to find an enclosure for them. Thank you.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

You said that you would like to find a local flyer or rescue for the birds---Oh I now see that you meant just to take care of the birdies until you make a decision about them. No don't stop writing about and keep us updated on what you are up to as you go along and this is a hard decision I realize...Your overloaded right now with work but this will pass and this problem will be fixed----I have been there...Wish I could take them but you only want to find them a good home for awhile not to get rid of them..misunderstood..Postings are hard to read because of the strange poster and hope the administers fix soon...My only suggestion is "Hire a carpenter"...then "all of us could help you design one "Just the way you want it'..You could have it attached to your house or porch where you sit out", and it would be separate from the inside of your home because of your breathing problems--which is a real health concern (pigeon-lung_)...Keep posting about what you are up to---thanks...


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

We think we have found a local place that can make a shed in the next two weeks with lots of ventilation so we may put down a deposit today. We plan to put three large flight bird cages inside...one for the scrub jay and two for pigeons. There will be a locking door and three windows that have screens which we will also cover with rat screen so predators can't get inside and the birds can come out to fly around. We have an air cleaner and heater we could use. We are thinking of housing Fiona and Lucy together in one cage and Tracy in one cage, then Screech the scrub jay in the third cage, but Fiona just laid an egg again. We gave a cage divider so we can see how they get along. Should I wait until Fiona lays her second egg just to be safe so she doesn't get egg bound?


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Sounds like a wonderful "first step" and I would not disturb Fiona right now and wait until she lays the second egg...Just leave her have peace...Glad you two are working on this and with your brains and beauty I am sure it will be very successful..lol lol Good for you..


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Fiona finished with both her eggs so put Lucy in with her. Had to put a divider as Fiona keeps trying to chase and peck Lucy. Is this typical behavior? Am hoping to house them together without the divider. Fiona is larger than Lucy and is bonded to me. Lucy doesn't like people, just pigeons. Our third female, Tracy, is bonded to people and much smaller.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Putting a new bird into the cage of another bird, the bird who already views this as her or his territory will usually try to chase the other bird from her territory. A neutral place is a better idea than one birds territory. 
I know it has been asked before, but can you tell us why you don't want to let them loose in the shed? They would have so much more freedom that way.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Right now they live in large flight cages. Am trying to keep the pigeon dust down because I probably have bird fanciers lung plus the shed doors are large and they might fly out. They have never been flown and will not have any idea where they live and two red tailed hawks nest in a tree in our yard in addition to several red shouldered and coopers hawks nearby. We will have two large doors and three large windows in the shed so will put rat screen over the windows. For now we just want to move them outdoors as soon as we can do this safely and see how it goes. We have to then somehow get all the pigeon dust out of the entire house. I will have to wear a respirator and protective clothing in the shed. Maybe at a later date will let them have the run of the shed but for now am trying to be expedient. Will try letting Fiona and Lucy together again and see if they get more tolerant. Maybe put them together in a different cage so they are on neutral ground. Eventually am hoping all three birds can roam free in the shed but for now the choice is get them outside or get rid of them and I hate to just get rid of them. The choice is between inconveniencing them for a while or getting pulmonary fibrosis which of course I might already have. They have never lived outdoors.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I understand what you are saying. Just want to let you know that you can fix it so that you open up only one door to go in and out. In my loft, I open the door, then inside on the door frame, I have hung a length of pet screen which goes from over the door, all the way to the floor. When I step in and close the door, I then have to push the pet screen out of the way to enter. You can see where everyone is through the screen, and they can't fly out through the screen. Keeps them safe from escape. You would love it. And it is cheap to buy. Can buy it from many hardware stores, or Home Depot, probably even Lowes. It's heavy and very flexible. You should check it out when you get time.

I think getting a shed like that is a great idea. It can always be set up later the way you want. You can add things to make it as you want. I would be fun. At least it is for me. I enjoy coming up with new ideas for mine. Always adding some thing or other.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)




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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Jay3, thank you for the photos and ideas. Will check out adding a screen door. First have to get the shed built which should be done in the next two weeks. Am packing up knicknacks and cleaning the house little by little with a hepa vac but one flap and there is more scuff. Your birds do look very happy having more space to move around.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

I can understand that cwebster for you need to feel secure about the idea as well. You have a long way to go to get started. First you need to think about a foundation for it to be set up on and the direction of it for air supply as well as getting it there and to protect the windows with hard cloth wire so that you can open up the windows for the birdies to get air as well as vents and fans on top to pull out air as well as flooring that would be easy to clean and shelving as well and electricity and maybe insulation if you want it. I understand and would do it the same way for now and just worry about getting one of those oil filled heaters and keep it on low for you do not want it to get too hot for they need air---just enough to take the chill of dampness out of the air, but they need some humidity too so its a lot to think about..I would think about a double entrance since you need some handimen or whoever is there to help you with this. Jay3 idea is good and it would work well but I need the double entrance just to feel secure. You could also make the entrance large enough so that you could store things in it..I understand now...Thanks for the posting..


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Take your time and just go day by day. You can get a little bit done at a time. Things will work out. Hope you feel better soon.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Can't wait to get the shed started. It is being built onsite on a level ground. It will have two doors and three windows. My significant other is putting insulation in it. We have figured out some things but having it come together is the challenge. Fiona and Lucy slept together last night on the same perch in the dark but when it got light, Fiona started chasing and pecking poor Lucy again and would not let her eat so I put the divider back to give Lucy some peace. Hope they start getting along. Every time they flap there is scuff all over the living room again and I start coughing in spite of the air cleaner and vacuuming. Every time Fiona flaps I wonder why I am trying to keep them. Tracy is still in the bathroom. I hope all our lives improve soon. I hope the shed people start building it this week...I know they are waiting for the check to clear. We contracted for plywood rather than greenwood to minimize any fumes for the birds and will,put a fan and an air cleaner and heater in the shed. I won't put them in there until I'm sure they will be safe and will take some time off work so I can keep an eye on their safety and comfort. Not sure later if the shed will need a ceiling fan. It already will have vents.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Don't think a ceiling fan is a must really. I don't have one. Can't have one the way my loft is situated, so I put a duct fan from Home Depot in a board that I close a window down onto, and it works great. You can feel the difference when you walk in and it isn't on, turn it on, with a window opened some on the other end of the loft, and walk back in a half hour later. Was very inexpensive to do. And it works.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Inside











Outside










And I bought a cover that fits right over the outside at the hardware store to cover it when not using it, also keeps cold winter winds from blowing in.
It will fit in any window, or it could go right through the loft wall. Makes an amazing difference in the air inside.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Looks just wonderful Jay3 and I bet it works real well. I was thinking of not quite a fan but those revolving roof things that work entirely on the hot air and it pulls out carbon dioxide and hot air at night time working only by the heat in the loft. I have a solar one but they have regular ones too and in the summer time it is wonderful as well as it is dry and does not leak it put in right...Every loft needs them in my opinion...Getting excited for you cwebster and it will really make a difference with your health. I have a separate bird-room in my house that is closed off to the rest of the house and have two window fans that blows air out as well as in and I exhaust the room once a day. I never wanted pigeons and birds in my house and in that room I have two parakeets and a finch plus "our squeeks", On the porch I have "Catnip" but "someday" she will go to the loft when I have the right "set up" for her...Good for you and it sure sounds like your on the right track here and its a lot of work but satisfying in the end....


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Jay3 and c.hert, appreciate the ideas. Am looking forward to getting things better. Poor Fiona and Lucy are still in a cage with a partition. Lucy still is afraid to come down and eat so will watch her closely. I thought she would like being back with another pigeon but Fiona is really really bossy.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The thing not good about the fans on top that work all the time is if you heat the loft and don't want the warm air pulled out constantly when it is freezing out. Would cost a lot more to heat.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Yea but it keeps the bad air out..especially at night when the loft is closed up..It does not pull that much out at one time and you would not want the heater right under it. In the summer time it is a charm.....Just different ways.. I like plenty of fresh air for them for they are air machines so to speak...lol lol....


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes, I think it would be great in the summer time. My loft isn't usually entirely closed up at night, unless it is REALLY frigid outside.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

The shed builders are to start this Thursday. We want to put some kind of sealant to keep the birds from volatile wood vapors from wood outgassing. Those who have sheds what did you use please? Thanks!
Fiona is sitting on an egg in her flight cage with Lucy on the other side with a divider between them. Hope Fiona lays her second egg today so I don't have to worry. They are still,in the living room and Tracy is still in the bathroom.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

I do believe that you need to leave the wood "cure" for a certain amount of time. This I think would take care of the problem. Just my opinion here and I think you are worried about this toooo much but anyone who builds a loft thinks about this and they usually leave the wood get cured for awhile. They also have special pigeon paint that they sell at Foy,s that is better for them if you wish to paint it some too. After the wood is dried out and sort of cured the pigeons dropping kind of help after that when you scrape or sweep it out and those droppings make it easier and some people say this is curing the floor. You need to think of where to place the vents and air supply especially keeping in mind the direction of the wind-----this is important and other people with more expertise with your line of thinking I hope will come on here. Also you take in consideration the North and South Sides on how to set up the birdie boxes as well as the entrance and the fly pen door...There is a lot to this and just plug away at it---you doing great and getting very acquainted with pigeon needs and pigeon ways in a loft. I applaud you...I am starting a major project myself and at my age I am trying to acquire 16 acres with !/2 of 3 shares of water rights and a house that does not look too updated and at this time I cannot even drive there---I must be out of my mind...lol lol I would like it to be a "full blown Pigeon and Dove Sanctuary". I can barely take care of what I have and I tell you I am getting senile....lol lol...plus I cannot see because of cataracts but that will be fixed at the end of April. I'm losing it girl...Take care forum friend and just keep plugging....lol


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

We are close to moving the pigeons to their new outdoor shed home. It is all done except for installing a solar powered fan. Have put Lucy and Tracy together with good results. Fiona just laid another egg and doesn't like having another bird in her home. The shed is insulated and we have besides the shed fan we are installing, three vents, an air cleaner, and a heater. Will originally just move the birds outside soon in their cages and see later about letting them loose in the shed. We also have a scrub jay in a large cage who cannot roam free with the pigeons as he could hurt them. Tried to get him a nice large outdoor cage but it arrived really damaged, sadly. Then we will try to get rid of all the pigeon dust and poop and scuff from the house in hopes my lungs are not irreversibly damaged and will regenerate.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Well my land deal fell through for it was already under contract.. Sounds like you are moving along very well with your big project and be thinking of you with all of that work because as your finding out it can get involved but it will be soooo much better for your lungs and health...Good for you....


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

c.hert, sorry to hear your deal fell through. Hope another place becomes available that will give you lots of room for your birds! Am looking forward to maybe moving the birds outside next weekend as it gets pleasant outside here. Lucy seems overjoyed having a friend and Tracy seems to enjoy the company now that she has stopped sitting on her eggs. Fiona is hopefully getting ready to lay her second egg...have lost count of how many she has laid in a year...but she is still bonded to me and doesn't wantvany pigeons in with her as she gets very territorial. Will see how it goes.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Shed is pretty much ready. May try to move everyone outside today. Are still taping the insulation. Fan has been installed. Solar panel is ready. Have a heater just in case. Am so hoping the shed is done outgassing so it won't hurt the pigeons and that they don't freeze. It is 65 in the house and in the 40s outside here at night. Fiona is still sitting on her two eggs. Tracy and Lucy seem to be getting along doping. Screech aka Cheepy the scrub jay is always up for adventure. Am hoping we can get the three cages hosed out and pigeons outside today so,I can start cleaning up scuff from inside the house. Will wear a respirator in the shed. Have two lights in the shed too for after dark feedings if needed. Am excited but very nervous. Am so hoping the pigeons won't feel,neglected as they are used to,lots of attention in the house. Have to get a shop vac too.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Took longer than we thought but all four burds are in their new shed home tonight! Finished after dark so put a night light out there for them and an oil filled heater. Had tipo remove some of the insulation sadly to fit the pigeon cages ipundervthe windows but think it is important that they can see out. Will go outside in a while to check on them. Now have to start the clean up this week. I so hope they do ok in the shed. They look very puzzled.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Now you will continue to work on and enhance it for the next many years--lol Good for you and would sure love to see some pictures so we can really see your project..Thanks for the update. "Squeeks" might be moved this week into his loft and yes these moves are concerning especially when our minds are overactive with thoughts to begin with..lol
Thanks.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Just checked the three pigeons and scrub jay in their new home. It stayed 70'last night. Will turn down the heater tonight a little. Will try for 65 degrees. Left their windows open during the day so they wouldn't be harmed by out gassing. Fiona jumped out tonight to see me. Hope they are adjusting.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Saw this thread just now, tho couldn't read the complete thread but glad your birds have been happily shifted outdoors.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Second night in their new home. It is windy so,have to make sure they don't get too cold. The pigeons seem to be adjusting but the scrub jay seems really upset and is quiet and not eating. He hates change.


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

I'm sorry cwebster, I didn't know you were sick! how are you doing? I hope you get better now that your birds are outside. And I hope they adjust quickly to the change. It was so nice of you to go through all this work and not get rid of them.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Would never give them up without a fight. They seem to be adjusting but need more attention. Am spending a lot of time taking care of sick tree frogs but once they are better will spend more time in the shed with our three pigeon girls. Will just use a respirator and change clothes. Have to get a shop vac or something though to keep the shed clean. Am doing ok but my breathing is still bad at night and am very tired.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Wal-mart and Home Depot have some good respirator masks and get the kind with the nose breathing area--3 M's they work good..Changes and changes and thinking is a lot of work that makes you tired as well as the new way.. Get a hoe garden tool and a industrial dust brush and a black industrial dust pan plus a container to hold your feed in and the grit as well-----not metal---keep it in the bag and put in container. If you have windows get a window fan that fits in as well as a free standing fan to blow air out the door.. Would love to see a picture of this...


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

c.hert, thank you. Have an N100 respirator and put a trash can, dust pan and broom in the shed. Put a night light and a heater. Will put an air cleaner and shop vac very soon. There are two vents, three windows, and a fan near the ceiling. Will add more soon. Will try to,take photos this weekend. Put the food in bins. Still,have to figure out a better way to clean the water dishes and store the calcium and vitamins and probiotics too. All the pigeons and even the scrub jay seemed happier today. Will go plug iin their heater soon as it is in the 40s still at night, 60 in the daytime. Want to keep them at 60 to 65 as they are not acclimated.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*I'm sorry to hear about your being sick, I have been there,I was diagnosed with pigeon lung. 

My husband ended having to clean the coop. I tried the masks, but in this hot climate it got impossible to wear. 

We also extended our coop to include an outside aviary (4 walls of chicken wire with fencing wrapped around the outside of the wire) where I could go and check each bird out and handle them as I used to do inside the coop. That and a lot of nutrition resolved all my issues. *


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Skyeking, I too have pigeon lung which is why we moved the birds out of the house. Still have to clean and get rid of all the pigeon scuff and dust everywhere but my working full time every day means that will take a while. Am glad you recovered. Some time I hope you can let me know more about how good nutrition helped. Am on prednisone and steroid inhalers. Still short of breath and have inspiratory crackles and hypoxemia. Dont know if people realize how important it is to,prevent pigeon lung just with a few precautions. Other birds can cause it too...parrots, parakeets, cockatiels I understand.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Just fed the pigeons and scrub jay in their new shed home. They seem to be adjusting. But I am worried because it has been so cold, only 30 degrees last night and only 50 during the day today outside. Brrr. At night I turn on the heater but during the day I have to unplug it when I am not home. I was able to come home at lunch and check on them. It was only 50 degrees during the day inside the shed and only 55 with the heater on last night. Is that too cold?


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Do not know anything about a scrub jay and need to look this birdie up but for pigeons I would think about 55 degrees would be fine. They can take real cold temperatures as long as it is not a cold wind or dampness or damp wind. Why people keep them just fine in lofts in Canada when they have a few more than you because "all their temperatures" together helps to put warmth in the lofting area and that is one reason why a top roof ventilation is so important to get the carbon dioxide out. Now too "dry" with "heat" is not good either and you can tell if it is too dry by "dust in the area"---this is dangerous and you need more moving air in and out. You will get the hang of all of this and you are a worry wort like me. lol lol.. Females need a certain amount of humidity to lay eggs easier, so not overly dry. Some pooping left in the nest box is wonderful---people have fits and disagree with me on this but I love dried out poop because it insulates and makes it soft for the eggs and is bug repellent as well as rat repellent. So your birdie poop is "gold"---lol lol....Hope this helps you with your new experience with having a loft and you in time will tinker with it and learn to love it....Good for you...I do not know about the temperatures and conditions for scrub jays and that might make a difference..Thanks for the post and letting us know...Welcome to the loft world...lol


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

*The*

The scrub jay is a native rescue so the temperature should be fine for him. He was nearly killed by crows. The crows ate his sister/brother while his mom watched helplessly, then the crows tore into him. Tracy laid an egg today too so I hope this means she is adjusting.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

50 to 55 is fine for them. I don't turn my oil filled radiator heater off when I'm not here.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Fiona just laid a new egg yesterday and Tracy is sitting on her two eggs and Lucy seems happy to be with Tracy so I guess everyone is starting to,feel at home again in the shed outdoors. My lungs seem better, fewer crackles at night. The scrub Jay seems to miss the other birds who were hanging out near his window before but hopefully they will find where he is now. Tracy is wing slapping and biting me when sitting on her eggs. Fiona still likes me too much. Am eagerly awaiting delivery of a new shop vac. We got special,hepa filters and hepa bags for it. Am using an N100 respirator whenever I go outside into the shed with the birds and use masks when cleaning inside the house too. Am amazed how much feather, poop and white powder debris just three pigeons generate each day. And strongly urge anyone with indoor pigeons to be careful.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

cwebster said:


> And strongly urge anyone with indoor pigeons to be careful.


*Yep, that is how I got it, I was fine until I brought into the house, 2 newly hatched babies who's parents had abandoned them. 

3 pigeons definitely produce a lot of powder, but that means they are healthy. 

*


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

People with indoor pigeons should be very careful. We had pigeons in the living room, bedroom, and a bathroom. Just vacuuming was not enough. Am hoping tomorrow's ct will show no change or improvement and not progression of lung fibrosis. Have blood tests today and lung function tests in a couple of weeks.. The only obvious symptom was shortness of breath and a cough. I highly recommend people wear a respirator when cleaning the white powder up and having really good ventilation. The powder and feathers are all through the house and in and on everything. The shop vac is here and we got tyvex suits. The birds look at me strangely when I have the pink respirator mask on.


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

cwebster said:


> Skyeking, I too have pigeon lung which is why we moved the birds out of the house. Still have to clean and get rid of all the pigeon scuff and dust everywhere but my working full time every day means that will take a while. Am glad you recovered. Some time I hope you can let me know more about how good nutrition helped. Am on prednisone and steroid inhalers. Still short of breath and have inspiratory crackles and hypoxemia. *Dont know if people realize how important it is to,prevent pigeon lung just with a few precautions.* Other birds can cause it too...parrots, parakeets, cockatiels I understand.


can you please tell me how I can prevent it? I have an indoor pigeon and I live in a very small apartment, I want to take all the precautions to avoid it. Thank you!


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

JennyM, after what I have been going through, I cannot keep pigeons or other birds indoors. But apparently most people are not susceptible to pigeon breeders lung, aka hypersensitivity pneumonitis. Would make sure if you have birds indoors that you vacuum daily all white powder, feathers, and poop and clean cages daily. Would wear a dust mask while vacuuming. We have vacuums with hepa filters and air cleaners now. Also would keep windows open so there is good ventilation. If you are spending a lot of time in an enclosed space with a bird producing white powder, and you have any breathing problems, would wear a mask. The hallmark of pigeon breathers lung is what they call inspiratory crackles especially at night, a peculiar sound that sounds like soap suds or Velcro. If you google that there sample sound files you can listen to. Dry coughing is also a tipoff along with weight loss and increasing shortness of breath. I was spending many many hours per day with Phoebe and Chloe while they were sick and wasn't running the air cleaners or vacuuming much plus we had birds in every room of the house. Would try to keep any bird mess in just one room preferably not where you sleep. If you have lung problems you should not keep birds inside. Most people apparently do not have the allergic immune response to pigeons that some of us have. Good ventilation, vacuuming, maybe a mask if the bird is molting or shedding a lot if white feather powder will help. Some people gave recommended letting the pigeon bathe in a pan of water daily too,to cut down on the powder from the feathers. My lungs are already improving with prednisone and moving the birds to an outdoor shed but I still have lung scarring and ground glass opacities on ct and some coughing so am wearing a respirator and changing my clothes when I feed and clean the birds who are now outside in the shed. Also I try to shower if any pigeon feather scuff is in my hair...have a tyvex suit I will probably start using over my clothes and head. I hope you do not have any allergic response like I had. Most people apparently don't. So I wouldn't panic but would just be careful. If you get the coughing or crackling don't ignore it. My family doctor kept telling me I had allergies and asthma and pneumonia but the lung specialist knew right away what was going on. My oxygen level kept dropping and I couldn't sleep because of lack of oxygen. If you have pigeon breeders lung the only real treatment is avoiding breathing the pigeon "bloom". Luckily it is fairly uncommon but if it happens don't ignore it. You can get a blood test for bird protein exposure but from what I gave read most people who keep birds have a positive reaction, and unless you have lung problems, that doesn't really mean anything.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

JennyM said:


> can you please tell me how I can prevent it? I have an indoor pigeon and I live in a very small apartment, I want to take all the precautions to avoid it. Thank you!


*As cwebster has mentioned, avoiding breathing in the pigeon bloom is critical. Anyway you can do that will help your lungs heal. The doctor told me to get rid of the birds, which i didn't do..of course.

It wasn't until my husband started cleaning the coop and the youngsters went out in coop that I recovered. (I had our local wildlife rehabber finish raising the babies) as I was having a very hard time breathing. I couldn't even walk a short distance without feeling like I ran a marathon, like I had COPD. I was also on prednisone for a few weeks, that stuff really helped get my breathing back to normal. I did take major doses of all natural vitamins, mostly to target the immune system and lungs. 

Here are a few nutritional products I took and still do (plus I do protein drinks with greens powder and nutrition flakes in it): http://www.qnhshop.com/Lungs-Respiratory-System/ *


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Skyeking, will check out the supplements. Thank you for your post.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Yea that was very interesting---good knowledge on all counts from the members.


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

thanks cwebster and skyeking, I don't think I can avoid breathing the pigeon's bloom because like I've mentioned before I live in a very tiny apartment. I do vacuum every day though and keep all the windows open to get fresh air for me and the bird too lol I also mop the kitchen floor once a week (the rest of the apartment has carpet). I clean all his resting areas once a week and wash his blankets every 2 weeks. He doesn't like to bathe so much though, I think because my apartment is too cold! but I'm hoping he will bathe more when the weather gets warmer. 

I am glad to know that it doesn't happen to everyone! so hopefully I am not allergic to them. I will try to clean ever better than I do now, and get a better vacuum too. 

Are there other symptoms other than trouble breathing and dry cough? I assume trouble breathing is an advanced symptom. Does the early stages of the disease has any symptoms? 

Thanks again


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

I think the early acute reaction is like the flu, chills, night sweats, asthma like stuff. But as it becomes more chronic, crackly breathing and weight loss. Pneumonia like symptoms that don't go away.


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

thank you so much cwebster, I will keep all this in mind. I hope I don't get any of these symptoms as I don't have a backyard (not even a balcony) to move him out!


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