# Little guy still in pain with dead toe?



## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

The pigeon that I removed the thread from both of his toes is still in pain even though I have been giving him opiate relief(Tramadol) for over a week.

I am worried about continued opiate relief, but also the toe does not look like it is completely dead and part of it is staying connected. The thing is I am worried about giving opiate relief for a long time, but this little guy is still obviously in pain. He holds up his foot all the time and when he tries to land on the bar with the others at night he has a lot of trouble because he will not even defend himself a little because it is obviously too painful.

I really need a vet who will remove the toe and allow the healing process to start, but as I have explained before I cannot find a local vet who will have anything to do with pigeons.

What should I do? continue with opiate pain relief? or will the little guy just have to put up with the pain until his body fixes it?

He looks fine in other respects, I put him on Baytril for 7 days and he is now on the vitamin and probiotic mix that I give the others in the water. He seems to eat ok.

Thank you, I hate to see the guy in so much pain.

Brian.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

What's the color of the toe? Can you post a pic. please.
If it's black or gray and cold it will fall. Have his toe bandaged together with the other healthy toe, that way he will not knock it off and you prevent bleeding.
I had a situation with one of my pigeons rescued..in less than two weeks it turned black and stiff and cold, i bandaged him and after a few days was gone. Couldn't find the toe. LOL.
Now he is fine as nothing happened.
If is a gangrene the body won't fix it. The circulation is cut therefore will dry out and it should fall off.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

I need to catch her and post a picture. I will put the bandage on this time. I was worried that it would hurt even more. She is in so much pain that she even lets a little baby pigeon push her about because she does not want to stand on the foot.
The other food looks a similar colour but she does not seem to mind that one.

I will try and catch her in a bit and take a picture.

Thank you,
Brian.

P.s. there is always the possibility that there is still some twine deep in the wound. If there is I cannot see it. This is why I need a vet. I wish I was up to the journey otherwise I would travel further to find a vet.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

View attachment 24737

View attachment 24738

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I'm sorry about the quality of these photos, they look ok when you take them.
These should all be of the bad foot. I will post some more of the other foot
which does not look a lot different.
On both feet I have put some porous mildly sticky tape. She is still holding the
foot up though.

Brian.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

I'm sorry the quality is so bad, it was a cheap camera. These should be of the
second foot. I may have got them mixed up a bit. Both feet are pretty much
the same anyway.

Thank you for you attempts to help,
Brian.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

Both toes appear to be dead to me.

I have removed string/twine/nylon line from pigeon toes before, and any dead members fell off.

I am not too sure if removing any more twine would be beneficial. I am not a doctor, and am sketchy on the details, but what I remember is this: When a doctor removes a human limb, he ties off the blood vessels to prevent blood loss, removes dead tissue, and finally sutures everything closed. Perhaps a drainage tube might be used in some instances. Dead or gangrenous material has to be removed somehow from the body. It must be cut off or sloughed off, or reabsorbed by the body. If reabsorbed by the body, it is carried by the lymph circulatory system or the blood circulatory system, filtered out by kidneys or liver, and then excreted. Too much stuff needed to be quickly removed can overwhelm the system. 

If the pigeon did not have to compete for sleeping or perching territory, perhaps it would be less stress on her. Most of the pigeons I have seen with bad string-tangled toe problems had only one foot involved, though sometimes more than one claw involved on the foot. Double the pain by involving both feet, and you have your situation with your pigeon.

I admire how tough pigeons can be.

Larry


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

They are not ready to fall off yet, but I have put some porous tape round both feet leaving the toes a bit spread so she does not have trouble balancing. She constantly lifts one of the feet and sits down when she can. She does not defend herself because it obviously hurts and I am wondering if to continue with opiate pain killers while she looks in pain?
If i could take her to a vet i could probably get Metacam, but for now opiates is all i have. 
Even though I have just give her some more pain killer, you can see she still finds it painful to put the foot down.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Hi Brian,

In the worst cases I've seen , eg where the pigeon lost multiple toes and/or the other foot was lost completely, the feet seemed very tender for about 4-6 weeks - ie . the pigeons didn't look comfortable putting any weight on their legs, and liked to sit down a lot. 

After six weeks, they were able to put weight on the stump and strangled toes and walk normally. I've never seen it take longer than this personally.

I am careful with using pain relief because apart form the risks of causing internal damage and delaying healing, they can also cause the bird to be more active and aggravate the damage. Pain tells the bird to go easy and rest up. They have fast metabolisms, so their wounds heal a lot quicker than ours.

PS. Just saw your photos- its great that she has so many toes left. The 2 pigeons I feed who had bad string injuries were in much worse shape. You've done a great job with her!


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## pigeonlover2k11 (Jul 6, 2011)

am i the only one noticing that the thread is about a little GUY but then it says she? lol


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## pigeonlover2k11 (Jul 6, 2011)

sorry,good luck with the pigeon.hope it all turns out well


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Do you have a vet that will treat pigeons? I would have the toes removed.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

From the pic i cannot see really well. Look at this pic. My pigeon had all the hair removed and after 1 yr he started limping. it was very hard to see and clean what was between the skin cut, but it look something very strong cutting the blood supply like a fishing line. I posted the pic on Pigeon Talk and i think Cynthia told me it was callous that keep forming; so even though i was removing it by moisturizing it and using a tooth pick, it kept coming back. So i gave up doing that and soo the toe went first very swallen, they grey and stif, then black and cold..and the story i said it already above..it fell.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

I could not see well from the pic. If it looks like above pic. will fall. But if there's any pink, it means there's still some circulation going on and the toe may not fall. And as Charis said you may want to take him at the vet or... wait, which is tough because you are concerned with his pain, but i wouldn't give any painkillers anymore, it destroys their liver.

Larry Cologne was right. if there's any string, twine on leave it. It will fasten the process of falling.


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

It looks like I have caught it just in time, which I am not sure is a good thing. Like people have said, it may have been better if I let the process complete and let the toes drop off. It looks like the blood supply is still there because it is scabbing up which would not happen if there was no blood, it would just go black.
I think its just a matter of waiting. I have stopped painkillers now. Its just that I have one tiny baby here that had a really hard time outside and looks like he got abandoned, and he is chasing 'hop-a-long' about. It looks sad because she wants to avoid a fight at any cost and ends up being picked on by a baby lol.

Unfortunately, in london, vets have developed a hardened attitude to pigeons and people do not like them generally. They forget that the pigeons look the way they do because of the way we keep our cities. Its us that are the problem, the pigeons are doing what comes naturally. Anyway, its pointless me trying to get one of the vets to see her because I have tried several times before with other birds that had bigger problems, all they want to do is put them down.

And yes pigeonlover2k11, I do keep changing my mind about the sex of the pigeons until I see them in mating behavior. I was trying to use a catchy phrase to catch the attention of people lol.

Thank you all for your advice, sometimes you just have to let things take there course.

Brian.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

These places are on the resource list.

Companion Care Raynes Park
Inside Pets at Home
80 Bushey Road
Raynes Park
London
SW20 0JQ

0208 946 2105

Ask for Retief Ehlers



Midland Veterinary Surgery
655 High Road
Leyton
London E10 6RA

Tel: 020 8539 3538
Tel: 020 8558 5828


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

Thank you, I will check the distances as I have some difficulty traveling. I think I can make Raynes park though.


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