# fledgling robin...help/advice please?



## pinkprint

Well, first of all, hello! My name is Jessica, and I'm a 16 year old from the fabulous second city. (chicago.) =)
I'm new to Pigeon-talk, and I have a question for you guys. 

Okay. So since I was about 13 I've been taking in baby birds that have fallen out of nests, and raising them and releasing them. They were mostly house sparrows (which, under federal law, I am allowed to own). And I have been very successful in raising them with out taming or imprinting upon them. I currently have two sparrows that were unable to be released into the wild as pets. One is three years old, and the other is a 3 week old.
So, to say the least, I am aware on how to raise baby birds. =)

I have accquired a baby american robin (I'm guessing that he was about 7 days old when I got him) that was missing three toes and bleeding horribly when I got to it. We're not sure how it happened.
Luckily I have an amazing vet that doesn't charge me when I bring in wild birds for him to look at, and even though it is illegal for me to own the bird...he really thinks that since my bird is obviously going to be taken care of (reguardless of whether he can be released or not) that me keeping him should not be a problem. =)

He took a look at the toes (I had stopped the bleeding in the car with some septic powder that I have; i keep it handy in the house so when I'm clipping my birds nails I dont need to worry about bleeding) And he recommended that I just put neosporin on it and remove the wrap that he put on it for the night and just keep an eye on it. 

Well, the bird is now almost 3 weeks old, and is perching -very- well considering his injury. My only concern now is feeding him. I had tried to keep handling to a minum, but I'm afraid that the bird has already been imprinted on me, (he certainly is tame..) and I'm also scared that his injury could get him killed in the wild, so I've made the desicion to keep him as a pet. 

I have a large flight cage for him, and I've been weaning him off of the forumula that I made for him, and now giving him mealworms. I've never had a problem with my other birds eating seed, but for some reason I just don't think that he understands the concept of a seed. He is already drinking/bathing himself in the water dish, too. I've had the idea to put the mealworms inside of his seed (so that he'd have to fish around for them) but still nothing; he wont eat the seed. 

Do you guys think that he is too young to be eating seed? Or maybe I'm doing something wrong? But I've been feeding my passerines canary bird seed (under the vet's reccomendation) and they've always eaten it no problem. Is this odd for a robin? I've never delt with one before, so this is sort of new to me. =P

Anyway, I apologize for the length and thank you in advance. =)


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## Lin Hansen

Welcome Jessica,

I'm not too versed on Robins, but some members have experience with them and I'm sure they'll be along to offer advice.

In the meantime, here is a previous thread that should be helpful...just click on it:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=21758

Good luck with the Robin....

Linda


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## Charis

Hi pinkprint,
Robins are so sweet. I've enjoyed many through the years and I have some great Robin story's.
The reason the Robin isn't eating the seeds is because Robins are not seed eaters. They eat fruit, bugs and worms. Try berries, grapes, apples, melons, figs, soaked dry cat food and cooked eggs. You must be careful with the latter of the two because if they spoil and the Robin eats them, it could become very sick.


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## pinkprint

Thanks so much for all the info. =) So, the soaked dog food thing seems good...but I really dont see that working for me. o_o I would prefer to feed him something that doesn't spoil and that would not stink up my bedroom, haha. 
Anything that I can buy bagged? Or something where I would only need to add a few things? I have a lot of pets...horses, dogs, cats, other birds, a bearded dragon...and convience is the name of the game for me. XD
He already decided it would be lovely to fling a few worms on to my floor. =) To say the very least, my mother is -pleased- xD


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## Charis

Vita Vittles used to make a product called, Canary, finch and softbill+. I don't know if they still make it but my Starlings loved it. Had ground up bugs in it.


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## pinkprint

Would Kashi cereal be a good food? If I mixed in mealworms/waxworms and fruits? Kashi has a ton of fiber and protein, and its really low fat, I could soak the cereal in water beforehand to soften it as well. I could also add avian vitamins. Does this sound do-able?


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## Charis

I think you should check out, www.starlingtalk.com. Likely they will have some information that you will find valuable. I think you will enjoy the site as well.


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## Maggie-NC

Hi Jessica and welcome to the forum. Thanks for rescuing the little robin.

Personally, if this little guy is able to perch, the kindest thing you could do is locate a licensed rehabilitator who has an outside aviary who will take your bird and keep it in the aviary for a few weeks to acclimate him to the outside and become wild again. They will do this quickly. 

As Charis mentioned, robins are not seed eaters. He will do fine on a good quality soaked dry dog/cat food (we used Science Diet Adult Bites), and fruit like grapes and cherries, every day. The fruit is important to prevent metabolic bone disease to which robins are very susceptible. You would need to change the soaked food at least every 3 hours so it doesn't spoil.

You would also need to get a good vitamin supplement high in vitamin D, that you can add to his water about 3 times a week, making sure you change the water in the evening to plain drinking water. Mealworms are fine in moderation, but they should not be the sole source of his diet. I sometimes added boiled or scrambled eggs to the soaked food. The soaked food will not smell as canned food does provided you change it frequently.


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## pinkprint

Well, I followed your advice and called a wildlife rehaber...and she was very rude and short with me. I explained how i was taking care of the bird, and she was just...rude. I was not comfortable with leaving my bird with her.
So I called my vet who looks at my sparrows all the time, and he's going to give me a call back tonight. I'm very comfortable with him and I trust his opinion. So we'll see what he says tonight. =)
thanks for all of your responses! I'll let you know what happens.


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## mr squeaks

*Question:* instead of, or in addition to, kibble, would Monkey biscuits (after water is added to make them spongy) be OK to feed a Robin?

I am giving this to a baby Grackle, along with watermelon and hard boiled egg. He seems to like it. A rehabber told me about the biscuits and the feed stores around here sell them very inexpensively. 

Shi


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## naturegirl

Hi Pink print, well Like the others said they are not seed eaters but bugs and fruit, I feed my robin Soaked puppy food and fruits and bugs, if you go to the grocery store they should have an area where they sell dried fruit. I also buy this and rehydrate it and give him that as treats usually everyday. I also bought a small styrofoam cooler put some dirt in it and keep worms for him (leaf worms), mealworms,wax worms, crickets they like, spiders which they like but I don't so he doesn't get those. I also mix vitamins with the hot soaking water for the puppy food. They also like to take alot of bathes at least Robbie does. Hope this helps

Cindy


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## Charis

pinkprint.
I'm glad you are getting some other opinions. Have you checked out the starling talk site yet?


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## pinkprint

thank you all so much! 
And yes, I've been to the starlingtalk site before. Thats the first website I went to when I got my first sparrow 3 years ago. =)


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## Maggie-NC

mr squeaks said:


> *Question:* instead of, or in addition to, kibble, would Monkey biscuits (after water is added to make them spongy) be OK to feed a Robin?
> 
> I am giving this to a baby Grackle, along with watermelon and hard boiled egg. He seems to like it. A rehabber told me about the biscuits and the feed stores around here sell them very inexpensively.
> 
> Shi



Shi, absolutely. Monkey biscuits are very good for them. I'm glad you mentioned them because I used them, alternating with the regular Science Diet. We still keep monkey biscuits on hand and I put them in the blender to make a fine powder which I use as one of the ingredients to feed our meal worms.

Bet you're having a good time with the little fellow.


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## pinkprint

I'm a little worried...the part where his toe was severed off is starting to get a little red and puffy. If its infected, can I just treat it at home? Like, with neosporin and such? Or would it require a vet trip?


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## TAWhatley

pinkprint said:


> I'm a little worried...the part where his toe was severed off is starting to get a little red and puffy. If its infected, can I just treat it at home? Like, with neosporin and such? Or would it require a vet trip?


Could you post a picture of the toe? That would be helpful. You can clean the toe well with diluted Betadine or a similar antiseptic and then use the Neosporin. If the toe is getting seriously infected then the bird may need oral antibiotics.

Terry


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## pinkprint

I tried to get a picture from my cell phone (i dont heve my digital camera with me) but it didn't show it well. Its a little swollen and pink (not very red). If I keep an eye on it, clean it, and put ointment on it, it should heal on its own, correct?


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## Beth1965

Robins are insect and fruit eaters not seed. Feed him mealworms, earthworms cut up in pieces and they love blueberries cut up small and grapes. Also there is a great food called bugs-n-berries put out by avico. Can look avico up on web and order. I have starlings and they adore it as they are also considerd softbills and eat insects and fruits and such. it is easy to store. Good luck but he wont eat seed and if he does it will not digest properly.


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## Msfreebird

I had a Robin "Baby" for 13 years, raised him from the day he hatched. Mom kicked him out of the nest (when he was 1 day old) because he had a deformed foot. We witnessed this because the nest was right outside our window. I put him back in the nest and when mom returned she threw him out again. So I claimed him. 
I fed him small crickets and chopped earthworms to start. When he got to fledgeling age he vomited roundworms. The vet I worked for at the time told me I should switch him to dog good. He said they can get roundworms from earthworms. So I switched Baby to Eukanuba Puppy Small Bites. A small amount soaked in warm water until they "puffed", and changed his food twice a day. The only other thing he liked was apple. He had a stroke last year at the age of 13 and was still trying to go on - I had to put him to sleep


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## little bird

Msfreebird said:


> I had a Robin "Baby" for 13 years, raised him from the day he hatched. Mom kicked him out of the nest (when he was 1 day old) because he had a deformed foot. We witnessed this because the nest was right outside our window. I put him back in the nest and when mom returned she threw him out again. So I claimed him.
> I fed him small crickets and chopped earthworms to start. When he got to fledgeling age he vomited roundworms. The vet I worked for at the time told me I should switch him to dog good. He said they can get roundworms from earthworms. So I switched Baby to Eukanuba Puppy Small Bites. A small amount soaked in warm water until they "puffed", and changed his food twice a day. The only other thing he liked was apple. He had a stroke last year at the age of 13 and was still trying to go on - I had to put him to sleep


Thirteen years!!! Good on you!!! longevity=the very best care....I know, I have an old guy.


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## Msfreebird

little bird said:


> Thirteen years!!! Good on you!!! longevity=the very best care....I know, I have an old guy.


Baby was great! He showered every morning with me, played in the sink while I was getting ready for work, sat on the back and arm of the couch next to me every night and kept the mosquito's away (yum) - my house was bug free for 13 years! He's in my garden now with a nice headstone. And I sure do miss him!


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## Noisy_minor

hows the little guy goen? im sorry i missed this thread, im glad you didnt leave your bird with the rude rehabber not all rehabbers are nice caring people like us hehehe.


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## spirit wings

Lady Tarheel said:


> Shi, absolutely. Monkey biscuits are very good for them. I'm glad you mentioned them because I used them, alternating with the regular Science Diet. We still keep monkey biscuits on hand and I put them in the blender to make a fine powder which I use as one of the ingredients to feed our meal worms.
> 
> Bet you're having a good time with the little fellow.


what are monkey biscuits?


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## Maggie-NC

Regarding this thread, "pinkprint" wrote this in 7/2007 and has not been back since so we don't know what happened with this robin.

Earthworms are a definite No-No for any captive bird because they can get sick from eating them. 

These are the ingredients in Monkey Biscuits. Zupreem Monkey Biscuit – nutritional content:

Ground corn, Soybean meal, Cracked wheat, Sucrose, Wheat germ meal, Animal fat (preserved with BHA, propyl gallate and citric acid), Dried whole egg, Dicalcium phosphate, Calcium carbonate, Iodized salt, Vegetable oil, Choline chloride, Stabilized ascorbic acid (source of Vitamin C), Ethoxyquin (a preservative), Ferrous sulfate, Zinc oxide, Copper chloride, Manganous oxide, Cobalt carbonate, Calcium iodate, Sodium selenite, Vitamin A supplement, uVitamin D3 supplement, Vitamin E supplement, Thiamine (Vitamin B1), Niacin, Calcium pantothenate, Pyridoxine hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Riboflavin (Vitamin B2), Folic acid, Biotin,Vitamin B12 supplement.

This link is pretty good with information about a lot of things and #17 talks about monkey biscuits. 

http://www.exoticpetvet.net/avian/20facts.html

We always had good success with Science Diet Small Bite Adult Pellets that were soaked to a soft but not soggy texture, various fruits and vegetables and vitamins in the drinking water about 2 x week. We have broken up Monkey Biscuits from time to time to add variety and we still occasionally soak them for our outside crows.


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## cindyv11

I really think you need to follow the advice given above and get this bird to a licensed wildlife rehabilitator right away. If the area is red and/or inflamed there is probably an infection going on. A rehabilitator would have put the bird on antibiotics as soon as it was taken in based on the injuries you described. Delaying the critical care this robin needs may end up costing him his little life. I am sorry the rehabilitator you spoke to was grumpy, but this is such a busy time of year caring for all the baby birds. Unless you have cared for 50 or 100 baby birds at one time, you cannot begin to know how hard they work. Often many of them are not so good with people, but take great care of the animals they take into their care. It is probably very frustrating for her having to waste precious time on the phone trying to get you to understand the reasons you should not try to raise and keep the bird yourself. All she really has time to do is to give you directions to get the bird to her house so she can give it the care it so desperately needs. It is against the law for anyone that is not a trained wildlife rehabilitator to keep a bird and legally she cannot give you the long-term care or diet instructions you were seeking

The loss of three toes will probably not prevent a Robin from living a normal happy full life as a wild bird. Robins are flocking birds and they need to be around other Robins for companionship to be happy. As Maggie said, he would be fine after a short time around other Robins in a flight cage and imprinting would not be a problem. 

It is obvious you love birds! This Robin may have made it’s way to you to get you involved with a wildlife rehabilitation organization in your area where you could help lots birds. You would have the opportunity to learn all about birds (even sparrows need a more rounded and complete diet than just seeds) and soon find yourself caring for so many birds that you would not have the time to contemplate making "pets" of them.


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## little bird

cindyv11 said:


> I really think you need to follow the advice given above and get this bird to a licensed wildlife rehabilitator right away. If the area is red and/or inflamed there is probably an infection going on. A rehabilitator would have put the bird on antibiotics as soon as it was taken in based on the injuries you described. Delaying the critical care this robin needs may end up costing him his little life. I am sorry the rehabilitator you spoke to was grumpy, but this is such a busy time of year caring for all the baby birds. Unless you have cared for 50 or 100 baby birds at one time, you cannot begin to know how hard they work. Often many of them are not so good with people, but take great care of the animals they take into their care. It is probably very frustrating for her having to waste precious time on the phone trying to get you to understand the reasons you should not try to raise and keep the bird yourself. All she really has time to do is to give you directions to get the bird to her house so she can give it the care it so desperately needs. It is against the law for anyone that is not a trained wildlife rehabilitator to keep a bird and legally she cannot give you the long-term care or diet instructions you were seeking
> 
> The loss of three toes will probably not prevent a Robin from living a normal happy full life as a wild bird. Robins are flocking birds and they need to be around other Robins for companionship to be happy. As Maggie said, he would be fine after a short time around other Robins in a flight cage and imprinting would not be a problem.
> 
> It is obvious you love birds! This Robin may have made it’s way to you to get you involved with a wildlife rehabilitation organization in your area where you could help lots birds. You would have the opportunity to learn all about birds (even sparrows need a more rounded and complete diet than just seeds) and soon find yourself caring for so many birds that you would not have the time to contemplate making "pets" of them.


Cindy...this thread is out dated but thank you for you advice.


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## Maggie-NC

Cindy, that was a terrific post. You're absolutely right about the rehabber being stretched to the limits. Back when we did both songbirds and pigeons, I was up from sunrise until about 10 pm trying to help all the ones we took in. Rehabbers don't mean to be short or sound mean, they're just tired!

I finally made it a policy to tell people that - no, I can't take any calls about how the bird is doing and, no, please don't come to check on it. I hated so much to do that but it was the only way I could manage.

I had one lady that I swear beat the bushes to find birds to bring me - well, I actually had two that did that - but this one lady would sit down at our dining room table, rear back and want to watch me feed them. Sometimes she would stay two or more hours. The only way I was able to stop this after an entire summer of visits was to tell her to take an injured bird to the after hours clinic. This was when she showed up at almost 10:30 pm and wanted to talk and watch me set the leg. Don't know where the bird had been since she had to have found it during daylight hours. Anyhow, from then on I sent her to either the vet or the clinic. Later found out she had attached to our vet and was even calling her at home. Go figure.


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## cindyv11

Oops... I thought I saw the message about the Robin in the New Posts Category... I am new to this list and trying to learn my way around. I will try to be sure to make sure I a following the current posts from now on. I have to say that I have really enjoyed reading all information on this site. I have spent far too much time doing so today! I walk away from my computer and a little while later I find myself right back her on this site again. 

Maggie you are so right about everything you said regarding rehabbing! The Robin post hit a sore spot with me because it reminded me of the people that called me after finding a cat caught bird that supposedly escaped any injuries. I warn them that if the bird is not treated with antibiotics it will probably get sick on the third day. They call for several days wanting care advice claiming they have no way to get the bird to me. Then on the third day, I open my door to find them holding a gasping dying bird they finally found a way to get to me just in time for me to watch it die instead of them. 

All that said, rehabbing is the most exhausting, time consuming, heart breaking, heartwarming, rewarding unpaid job anyone can ever have.

Cindy


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## Charis

cindyv11 said:


> Oops... I thought I saw the message about the Robin in the New Posts Category... I am new to this list and trying to learn my way around. I will try to be sure to make sure I a following the current posts from now on. I have to say that I have really enjoyed reading all information on this site. I have spent far too much time doing so today! I walk away from my computer and a little while later I find myself right back her on this site again.
> 
> Maggie you are so right about everything you said regarding rehabbing! The Robin post hit a sore spot with me because it reminded me of the people that called me after finding a cat caught bird that supposedly escaped any injuries. I warn them that if the bird is not treated with antibiotics it will probably get sick on the third day. They call for several days wanting care advice claiming they have no way to get the bird to me. Then on the third day, I open my door to find them holding a gasping dying bird they finally found a way to get to me just in time for me to watch it die instead of them.
> 
> All that said, rehabbing is the most exhausting, time consuming, heart breaking, heartwarming, rewarding unpaid job anyone can ever have.
> 
> Cindy


I appreciate you saying that, Cindy. I have had a similar experiences through the years with little Starlings and Sparrows. It's not a bad thing to remind us that we do need to strongly encourage folks that have found a protected species to turn it over to a licensed rehabber as soon as possible.


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