# Refusing To Poo



## GimpieLover (Dec 18, 2005)

Of all the birds I have had in my life, I'm stumped. Most my experience is feral rehab and release mind you, with the many outdoor aviary domestics. I ended up with a goofy little fantail hen as a house pet now.
This goofy little bird refuses to defecate in her cage. Its a decent sized cage with a second level. She will hold her poop all dam day until I let her out of the cage and she lets loose on my floor. She poops normally when out and about but once she is back in her cage she will hold it till her next romp around..., or she just can't hold it anymore. Large foul....hen holds. 
Anyone have recommendation on how to make her be more ok with letting it just go....I'm going to go with an even bigger cage soon....but I have never had this issue before with any caged bird in the hospital cages...
Shes had a clean bill of health sidenote


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## pigeon-lover0 (Apr 1, 2012)

My pigeon does a similar thing. Mine will go in the cage but usually holds it for as long as possible. I usually get a big present on the floor when I let him out in the house. I'm as much in the dark as you lol. See what others have to say.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Fiona our often hormonal preoccupied pigeon does the same. She makes gigantic foul piles twice per day. I have given her calcium, vitamins, and probiotics but in between laying eggs, her poop is like this. When I open her size able flight cage to feed her, she jumps into the open doorway to say hi. I have to be careful she doesn't come out or she will poop down my shirt onto my shoe. So I don't let her out until she has defecated. But we love her anyway!


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

When they are going to lay /laid or have squab in nest, they don't poop in the cage /nest until extremely necessary. Foul smell is to hold it too long. 
How long she is there with you/ in that cage? Has she laid before? Or have any eggs in the cage? 
For her health better is to let her out more frequently like twice /thrice a day so she doesn't stress herself much in holding it. During breeding I let the cage opened for the whole day so they could come out and poop when they need. Even when I see they are going to lay sometimes I open them on terrace and they poop there and return to the room where the cage is. Even you can open her in toilet as they poo immediately when out of cage so cleaning and washing is easy there.


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## GimpieLover (Dec 18, 2005)

She hasn't laid and egg yet, or ever before. She is probably about 8 months old now. She came in as a squeaker. 
She does court and preen me me so I guess she might see her whole cage as one big nest? I would think she would see just the top level as a nest and the rest a free for all, but guess not. 
She is only in there while I am at work, but holding it for 8+ hours a day is not good for anyone. I worry about long term damage or toxicity build up. 
She is a show fantail reject...she doesn't get around well and didn't hack it in the aviary with others. Perhaps she will need her own outdoor aviary to be in while I am not home. Glad I'm not alone on this predicament lol 
If I find any solutions, ill pass them along here.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I have had birds like that while inside in cages. One in particular that I can think of. What I would do is to keep a small cage in the room with paper towel on the bottom. Whenever I let her out, I would just put her in that small cage for a minute. She would go right away, then I'd let her out for exercise. Easy to just change the paper towel. It always worked. Of course that doesn't help the problem of them holding it all day while you are gone. But it saves the rug or whatever from being hit.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

If she is treating you as a mate and holding her poop, she is going to lay and yes for her the whole cage is her nesting area where her young ones have to live so she has to keep it clean for them, that's what they do. 
While incubating their eggs, usually they don't come out to poo for long (even if the cage is opened) or until their partner takes over the shift on eggs, so they hold it for long then too but yes at least they should be allowed outside the cage (with door opened) so they can come out if need be and don't stress themselves too much. They may generate oviduct related issues in holding the poop as well.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Well it's kind of hard to let them out all day, if you are not there. For one, they can get into trouble, and then too, they make a mess.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Yes, if someone is not home, they can't be opened but it is stressful for the hen. An aviary would be better or may be a small enclosure attached to the cage? Am just thinking about the possible alternates.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

A small enclosure attached to cage would be an idea, and I thought of that, but not really sure how you would set that up so that it wasn't viewed by the bird as just one big cage that she won't poop in.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Yeah I too thought of the same, may be could be given a try with different techniques applied attaching the enclosure so she doesn't think it as a part of her cage.
May be it just gets failed and she thinks her young ones get a play ground now so she has to keep it clean as well. Lol


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

kiddy said:


> Yeah I too thought of the same, may be could be given a try with different techniques applied attaching the enclosure so she doesn't think it as a part of her cage.
> May be it just gets failed and she thinks her young ones get a play ground now so she has to keep it clean as well. Lol



That's funny! She would most likely view it as a playground. LOL.


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## GimpieLover (Dec 18, 2005)

Lol oh my
She has been doing this for months and still no egg, so I don't believe it's an onset sign of eggs immediately to come, it's just what she does. 
When I let her out I just hold her over a towel, then she gets piji pants while out, so the mess isn't the problem, it's the holding it all day. 
I think I might keep her cage here to sleep in she can see as a nest, and perhaps have a different larger enclosure she goes in during the day...away from her cage and see how that goes. trial and error
I'll just add a restroom sign to her playground


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

GimpieLover said:


> Lol oh my
> She has been doing this for months and still no egg, so I don't believe it's an onset sign of eggs immediately to come, it's just what she does.
> When I let her out I just hold her over a towel, then she gets piji pants while out, so the mess isn't the problem, it's the holding it all day.
> I think I might keep her cage here to sleep in she can see as a nest, and perhaps have a different larger enclosure she goes in during the day...away from her cage and see how that goes. trial and error
> I'll just add a restroom sign to her playground


LOL about the restroom sign! Fiona has been making large weird poops for over a year and the only explanations the vet could find after fecal tests were hormones and eimeria/coccidia. We treated her but it never went away and her poop us still large clumps twice per day.


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## Whytpigeon (Sep 14, 2015)

GimpieLover said:


> Of all the birds I have had in my life, I'm stumped. Most my experience is feral rehab and release mind you, with the many outdoor aviary domestics. I ended up with a goofy little fantail hen as a house pet now.
> This goofy little bird refuses to defecate in her cage. Its a decent sized cage with a second level. She will hold her poop all dam day until I let her out of the cage and she lets loose on my floor. She poops normally when out and about but once she is back in her cage she will hold it till her next romp around..., or she just can't hold it anymore. Large foul....hen holds.
> Anyone have recommendation on how to make her be more ok with letting it just go....I'm going to go with an even bigger cage soon....but I have never had this issue before with any caged bird in the hospital cages...
> Shes had a clean bill of health sidenote


I have had birds not deficate in their nest boxes. I thought it a wonderful thing and not goofy at all. They call them clean birds. You will have to let her out more often.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Whytpigeon said:


> I have had birds not deficate in their nest boxes. I thought it a wonderful thing and not goofy at all. They call them clean birds. You will have to let her out more often.



In their nest boxes no, most don't, but usually if kept in a cage, they do go. Most don't hold it all day till let out. That _is_ unusual. And kind of hard to let her out more often if you work and are not there.


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## Whytpigeon (Sep 14, 2015)

Jay3 said:


> In their nest boxes no, most don't, but usually if kept in a cage, they do go. Most don't hold it all day till let out. That _is_ unusual. And kind of hard to let her out more often if you work and are not there.


It's not unusual a nest box is as big as a cage ,where they spend most of their time... Like a cage. But they can come and go as they please to deficate. One in a cage would have to be let out. Of course.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Whytpigeon said:


> It's not unusual a nest box is as big as a cage ,where they spend most of their time... Like a cage. But they can come and go as they please to deficate. One in a cage would have to be let out. Of course.


Most nest boxes are not as big as a cage. Some racers or breeders and such have 24 inch wide nest boxes, but most people don't. I know the cages I keep any birds in for whatever reasons, are lots larger than that. Don't think most would keep them in a very small cage. The cage area is plenty large enough for them not to be pooping in or near the nest. Most will not hold it, unless it is a very small cage. But on occasion, you have one that will. But that isn't really common. Most people have to change out the cage daily, because of this. If your birds are holding it, then maybe larger cages are needed.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

GimpieLover said:


> Lol oh my
> She has been doing this for months and still no egg, so I don't believe it's an onset sign of eggs immediately to come, it's just what she does.
> When I let her out I just hold her over a towel, then she gets piji pants while out, so the mess isn't the problem, it's the holding it all day.
> I think I might keep her cage here to sleep in she can see as a nest, and perhaps have a different larger enclosure she goes in during the day...away from her cage and see how that goes. trial and error
> I'll just add a restroom sign to her playground


You can give it a try(not to restroom sign if she is not literate  ) . From my experience she will leave this habit of holding the poop if you change the cages for day and night. The reason behind is the nest could be one, if she is changing the cages twice in 24 hours, she would be settled nowhere and would consider nothing as nest. That's what I have seen. Pls update once you do it and see any noticeable change.

Edit : If you change the location of the cages, that would be even more helpful.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Must be a better way than to have her feel like a nomad. She would never feel settled. I think somehow attaching like an aviary to the cage, or putting the cage into a larger one might help. Hopefully. So that she would still feel that she had a nest, yet also had a place to go.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

cwebster said:


> LOL about the restroom sign! Fiona has been making large weird poops for over a year and the only explanations the vet could find after fecal tests were hormones and eimeria/coccidia. We treated her but it never went away and her poop us still large clumps twice per day.


For a laying hen like Fiona it is just normal and I don't think fecal tests can show behavioral things.
In my knowledge she is just doing it because of keeping her nesting area clean.


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## GimpieLover (Dec 18, 2005)

Her "spot" to rest and hunker down is always my bed pillow lol
She isn't attached to her cage at all. She won't go back in there, until I make her. I figure if she saw it as a nest, she would return on her own. 
She will walk in for a quick bite to eat or drink, but then right back out, so doesn't seem too "nesty" to me. I sure wish they could talk sometimes and just tell me what she wants lol
I will try all options and let everyone know which one seems to help


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Will be curious to know if anything works. Good luck!


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

GimpieLover said:


> Her "spot" to rest and hunker down is always my bed pillow lol
> She isn't attached to her cage at all. She won't go back in there, until I make her. I figure if she saw it as a nest, she would return on her own.
> She will walk in for a quick bite to eat or drink, but then right back out, so doesn't seem too "nesty" to me.* I sure wish they could talk sometimes and just tell me what she wants lol*
> I will try all options and let everyone know which one seems to help


I always wanted them to tell how they feel but realized, they will be like humans then, when they speak they may lie too  So felt good they are speechless and unlike humans. We have to feel and read how they are doing and so their love is unconditional without ifs and buts.
We are lucky to have love for them, many even don't know how it feels. 
Well, for your "non nesty" bird, until they don't lay, they aren't punctual to nest but they know their nest and they protect it from intruders and keep it clean. 
If there is a pair, the male will protect it, go inside the nest and coo and call his mate, he will even drive her to nest to make sure she lays at their chosen site for their young ones. For a lone bird this is not the condition, sometimes lone birds abandon the nests, even babies if one of them dies or killed by a predator. 
Nest is actually made by a pair for their juniors. Your lone bird is acting by her behavior in keeping it clean rather taking it seriously to work on her nest, lay and raise young ones.


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## Janine_Otto (Jul 30, 2010)

My bird, Starbuck, does a similar thing. She will hold it until I take her out to put her pants on and fly around the house. 

So we ended up potty training her. 

We take her to the toilet in the morning before work and tell her to do her business. And then when I get home around 5pm, I take her to the toilet again. And after that she will do little poops in her bird pant when we are home and have her out of the crate. It actually works out really well because she keeps her house really clean. If we are gone for a longer amount of time, she will go in the crate, like if we care gone from 8am until 8pm, but otherwise she sticks to they potty system.


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