# Male or female, pigeon or dove?



## Jaxx (Dec 9, 2013)

I have homed a very tame white pigeon/dove for 4 months after it flew into my sons workshop in south east London. How can I find out what sex it is?


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## pigeonjim (May 12, 2012)

The only way I know is to pair up with another one. 2 boys will both strut and fight, 2 hens will get along usually, 1 hen and 1 boy, one will strut and voice and the other one will play hard to get.


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## Jaxx (Dec 9, 2013)

Thanks pigeonjim for your advice, unfortunately I don't even know which breed of bird it is. It is completely white with small white feathers on its feet. I have never kept birds before, my son (who owns a cockateil) brought the bird home after it kept flying into his workshop. He kept it in a cardboard box for a few days and then we built it a cage in our garden. The bird is so tame and has obviously been hand reared but he had no tags on his legs. I have let him out on a regular basis since we've had him and his homing instict alwasy took him back to my son's workshop, in turn he would bring him back home. But for the last 6 to 8 weeks, he has finally decided that home is home and I let him out every morning now and he flys around with other feral pigeons and then returns home to his cage. I have grown quite attached to him/her? and want to make sure I am providing adequate care!


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## Abdulbaki (Jul 31, 2013)

Post a clear picture of the bird, or look up on the internet how do doves look like and how do pigeons look like doves are smaller than pigeons and have different beaks and plumage color (usually grey) while pigeons have a very wide range of colors)

one can't tell for sure whether it's a male or a female by looking at pictures, the only certain ways are: DNA test, or pairing this pigeon/dove with another one If this is a Female it will lay and sit on eggs most of the time If he is a male he will coo and chase around the other one


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## LisaNewTumbler (Jun 24, 2013)

glad he's taken to your home 

colour isn't really an indicator when trying to find out the breed as all breeds can pretty much be any colour (though there are some exceptions of course)

A photo would help, since it is body shape that usually gives away the breed.

To know for sure its sex you either have to have it dna tested or if you find eggs then it is definitely female.

Generally males coo and strut more, but females do this also and pigeons can be very individual. it is a lot harder to determine sex when you have just one.

When he hangs out with the ferals does he court and drive after any of them? Puffed chest, fanned tail dragging on the floor? If yes I'd say there's a good chance it is male.

regarding its contact with the ferals, beware that they might carry illness and parasites.

Monitor your bird for any changes in droppings, grooming habits, or activity levels as these may indicate he's picked up something.

What kind of cage does he have? Pigeon cages need to be protected from draughts so an open wire cage is no good.

An important thing also is grit. He (or she!) needs not only a good mix of seeds but also grit, to help him break down and digest the seeds.


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## pigeonjim (May 12, 2012)

Jaxx said:


> Thanks pigeonjim for your advice, unfortunately I don't even know which breed of bird it is. It is completely white with small white feathers on its feet. I have never kept birds before, my son (who owns a cockateil) brought the bird home after it kept flying into his workshop. He kept it in a cardboard box for a few days and then we built it a cage in our garden. The bird is so tame and has obviously been hand reared but he had no tags on his legs. I have let him out on a regular basis since we've had him and his homing instict alwasy took him back to my son's workshop, in turn he would bring him back home. But for the last 6 to 8 weeks, he has finally decided that home is home and I let him out every morning now and he flys around with other feral pigeons and then returns home to his cage. I have grown quite attached to him/her? and want to make sure I am providing adequate care!


Good story, sounds like she found a home!!! Does not sound like a homing/racing pigeon to me,because of the feathers on the feet, but there are lots of other breeds of pigeons that are capable of some homing instinct that are fancy looking, like you describe. A picture would help the folks on here that know a lot more than I do about the different breeds. Know matter what it ends up being it is still impossible to tell what sex it is without a test, or a mate. The only thing that I have seen with my birds are the males almost dunk there heads and gulp when drinking water, and the hens drink more dainty. Wish I could be more help, good luck! Jim


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## Abdulbaki (Jul 31, 2013)

Oh! I am sure he's happy with you guys, that little feathery guy sound like a pigeon, possibly sorta tumbler, how does he fly?
Again, Please post a clear picture of the whole pigeon ...


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

What are you caging him in? Should be an enclosure out of weather and wind. Maybe once you figure out what you have, you could get him/her a mate.


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## Abdulbaki (Jul 31, 2013)

I'd add to what Lisa said, away from the DNA test you can't be 100% of anything, happened quit alot to me, got fooled by females cooing and fighting thinking they are males and from males being quiet and chased by other males, I don't want to make it hard for you but one thing is sure is that this is a pigeon, therefore make sure he or she is healthy and happy .. If you find out what sex is it, you will want to give him a company that sure will make him happy and less hanging around with ferals.


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## lg5555 (Aug 2, 2013)

*male or female*

Perhaps, placing a mirror in his cage will give you a clue as to its gender. If it coos, puffs up, and drags its tail in circles,its a male. Gary M.


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## Jaxx (Dec 9, 2013)

Thank you all for your advice, it is most helpful. Here are a couple of photos of the bird whom we call Dick! I've also posted a picture of his new cage. Although the cage is open on all sides, it is built inside a home built conservatory, so no longer out in the open as he was during the warmer weather. The only thing is, I do not have central heating in the conservatory, I just use a small fan heater in the evening when I am sitting out there. Should I block in the sides of the cage or cover the cage with a blanket during the night? With regard to food, I have been given him/her a mixture of small seeds plus a fomular mix that my son originally got from a vet for his poorly cockateil -"Nutritionally complete diet as a year round maintenance formula that meets the nutritional requirements for healthy, non-breeding birds including lories, cockatiels, lovebirds, quakers, doves, pigeons and other small to medium parrots". LisaNewTumbler, you mentioned that the bird should be given grit, is this still necessary with the fomular diet?
With regard to him mixing with the feral birds, he does apear to keep his distance from them but he will fly around with them and sit on my roof for some time before finally flying down and into his cage. One thing i have noticed is that when he does fly up outside he flaps his wings so hard and sometimes it looks like he does small somersaults. Why would this be? Any more help and advice will be very much appreciated.


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

Nice cage! They don't mind the cold so much as long as they can get out of the wind and most important is that it stays DRY. Dampness is bad but cold and dryness is fine as long as they have water (I doubt it freezes there anyway(?)). Hard to say on breed and he may be a mix of breeds. Certainly a "pigeon"....which are doves anyway...but I mean _Columba livia_. There are many many breeds that have been bred for all sorts of things.....different show birds and different flying types (including racing homers, highfliers, and even TUMBLERS and ROLLERS). Yes, he may indeed be doing somersaults as there are breeds that do that. Looks a little like a West of England tumbler to me but thier muffs (feet feathers) are usually a little longer than that. You should be able to find a good pigeon seed mixture out there and he/she should also be getting pigeon grit. You can use cockateil grit for the time being but a good pigeon grit would be a little larger in size and better. He/she would appreciate a mate in the future (you can replace eggs with fakes if you don't want babies) and perhap a nest box of some sort to go inside. Glad you are enjoying your new friend and he/she is lucky to have you.


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## Jaxx (Dec 9, 2013)

Thank you Woodnative for your message, very helpful. I would love to get him/her a mate as I work full time and the bird is alone most of the day. With regard to a nest box, what sort of size should this be? And should it have some kind of soft substate on the bottom for laying on? I'm going to see what I can find now on the net!


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## pigeonjim (May 12, 2012)

Woodnative about covered it, nice cage. I have to go out every morning and evening this time of year and de-ice my water "they sell heaters I just don't mind doing it", cold is not a problem!! Like said, dry and free from drafts.


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## LisaNewTumbler (Jun 24, 2013)

by formular you mean pellets? As in not whole seeds?
some people don't give grit with pellets, but I'd rather give them grit anyway. It is definitely a necessity when eating any kind of seed. Good pigeon grit also gives them a lot of other supplements and minerals they need, esp calcium.

Very pretty bird  it may be some kind of tumbler. You can look for videos of tumblers and rollers on youtube and compare to what he does.

Cold is not a problem as long as there is no draught.

A next box can be almost anything, you can find good pics online. I suggest you do that. Comparing what different people do is a good way of seeing what are the essentials, what are people's taste/convenience, and what would suit your space.

If you are not going to actually breed the bird, all you need is space enough for the nest bowl. Will twigs and nesting material for them to build a nest. 

the box can be of any material. so long as it does not give off toxic gasses and does not have peeling/flaking toxic paint for them to injest.

If you DO want to raise young you need to go a little bigger. There needs to be place for the nest bowl + enough space for the squabs to be comfortable outside of the bowl but still in the box. Calculate about 2 nest bowls or a bit more. Also, while the box can still be of any material you need to make sure that the bowl doesn't have a slippery surface and has enough nesting material that the young can grip with their feet, Otherwise it can cause deformaties in the legs of the growing babies


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## Jaxx (Dec 9, 2013)

Thank you all for the great advice, I feel I am much better informed now. I will be purchasing some pigeon grit asap. One more question please, do male birds like to use nesting boxes or are they just for the females for laying eggs?
Last night I cut the flaps off of a cardboard box and fixed it at one end to the higher perch (so 5 sides closed with open side accessed from the perch)and the bird did venture in a few times. There was no nesting bowl though, if recommended I will purchase one. He/she started cooing and struting when doing so when inside the box. I'm thinking of making a nesting box rather than purchasing one becuase I haven't seen anything suitable online to fix up in the cage. Thanks again


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Jaxx said:


> Thank you all for the great advice, I feel I am much better informed now. I will be purchasing some pigeon grit asap. One more question please, do male birds like to use nesting boxes or are they just for the females for laying eggs?
> Last night I cut the flaps off of a cardboard box and fixed it at one end to the higher perch (so 5 sides closed with open side accessed from the perch)and the bird did venture in a few times. There was no nesting bowl though, if recommended I will purchase one. He/she started cooing and struting when doing so when inside the box. I'm thinking of making a nesting box rather than purchasing one becuase I haven't seen anything suitable online to fix up in the cage. Thanks again


That is a very pretty roller pigeon you have. the nest box is for a pair to use, both parents incubate the eggs and feed the young. when a pigeon is a lone pet it can see a human as a mate and act out by cooing and sitting in the nest area fluttering it's wings and cooing softly or even grunting which could be a male, hens usually don't act out as much but may want to be near or be clingy in a way when she wants to mate..so really it is hard to tell what you have there but I think the nest is a good idea as both sexes use it, for males you can get fake eggs for him to sit if you want to extend his quality of life. personally I would find a hen and introduce slowly and that way he wont be a "lonesome dove". they do mate and stay together most times for their lifetime. If your bird ends up being a hen then two hens can get along fine, better than two males which prolly would not work.


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## LisaNewTumbler (Jun 24, 2013)

It seems the box meets with approval  cooing and strutting is their way of claiming a space

Generally, when there are eggs the female will sit at night, the male during the day.

The male will perch close by at night. However that is when they are on eggs.

Not sure about lone males/females.

The males tend to be the ones to find the nest and claim it so you may have a male on your hand if he is very vocal about letting everyone know that space is his, usually with circles or figure of eights while cooing. 

Not a definite though! Just a guess 

As for the bowl, they're not fussy. Even something square will do, or a large dog food bowl. Large enough to sit comfortably in. The sides shouldn't be too high either. Some people make a square of wood with wire at the bottom and then stuff it with nesting material.


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## LisaNewTumbler (Jun 24, 2013)

for the box, as long as it can't get wet cardboard is just fine too! Though a bit of an eye sore, you can just change it out when it gets dirty.


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## Jaxx (Dec 9, 2013)

*Thanks!*

What a wonderful website, I have found out so much in the last few days, even if i still can't be sure of the sex of the bird! Although I feel fairly certain now that I have a male! 
I have found a great UK website that supplies all sorts of products for pigeons and have now ordered grit, minerals, various seeds incl hemp, a nesting bowl and felt mats. I will be building a nesting box suitable for 2 birds as I am hoping to find a mate for him in the new year. 
I have been trawling through a number of UK websites that sell pigeons, but most sellers are selling birds in pairs and mainly of the fancy or racing variety. When looking for a mate, do I need to try and find the exact same breed??? 
Still uncertain of the breed if anyone can be more precise after looking at the photos? Also, do I need to find a mate that is all white?? Thanks again in advance!


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## LisaNewTumbler (Jun 24, 2013)

to pigeons all pigeons are equal  your bird is not going to even notice what colour or breed the other bird is. Keeping to the same breed is only a consideration if you want babies from them.

Though sellers advertise pairs they do sometimes sell singles. Alternatively call your local animal rescues and see if they have, or know someone who has. Be prepared that if they make a mistake and give you another male, they might fight, and then you'd need 2 females to pair them up with! So try arrange that you can switch the bird if it turns out not to be compatible with yours.

The only consideration when buying the new bird is size. Pigeons breeds come in very different sizes. Some as small as doves almost, and others as large as chickens. Try get one of a similar size to yours. A small bird can be seriously injured by a larger one if they fight.


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## Jaxx (Dec 9, 2013)

And another question if someone can help, is it possible that my bird could find a mate when he is flying around with the ferals? I have 20 ferals that I feed in my garden every day and I have been encouraging my bird to try and mix with them (now a little concerned that he might pick something up from one of them). Initally he was very nervous of the ferals but as each day goes by he seems to be gaining in confidance. Today is the first time that he has not flown back down when we called him, but has stayed on the roof close by to another bird! Unfortunately I did not have time to wait around and assume he will return to his cage when he is ready! Should I be concerned????


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## LisaNewTumbler (Jun 24, 2013)

It is definitely possible and likely. Pigeons are drawn to flock dymanics.

If it is a male, as we think, he might well bring a girlfriend home. I had a homer who lost his mate and did exactly that. And I don't have pigeons hanging around my house so he went to great lengths to invite her back. Would have stayed if she weren't so skittish of me. Eventually mine flew off after her.

If your ferals are not so skittish of you you might find a female in his cage one day  Of course there is always a risk that she will take him elsewhere.

There is always going to be a danger of him picking up something from the ferals but as long as you keep an eye on any changes in him and worm him regularly it shouldn't be a problem.

You can try manage his food more strictly. Feeding him at certain times of the day, calling him down. That way he will come home for supper even if in a flock of ferals.


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## Jaxx (Dec 9, 2013)

Thank you LisaNewTumbler, it will be interesting to see what happens in the coming days!!!! I will keep you posted. Although I would be quite upset to see the bird leave, I would also be very happy if he finds a mate!!! Don't now how things will pan out if he brings a bird home though, that will be very interesting!!!


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