# For genetics expert



## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

If anyone can help in finding their genotype
left is cock; right is hen
(Both are grizzle i guess)
their offsprings are mostly similar to the father


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

The one on the left looks like a blue or silver grizzle. Smokey, sooty or dirty maybe?
The one on the right looks like a black mottle although it could be a dark (assortment of darkening genes) blue t-pattern. Can you get pictures of them from the side?


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

A much better view!!


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Hmmmm. I think the cockbird is a sooty silver grizzle. Not really sure. I think I see an albescent strip so no smokey.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Hen has a tail bar and if you look closely is not that dark in some of the coloured areas of the wing shield so would think its a check, Not spread or T check. Bird on the left looks silver or blue grizzle as Becky has said.


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

I believe they are print grizzle which is a different phenotype looking back at the thread below, people state print grizzle is different. I'm pretty sure the one on the right is a print. The flecks and tail and flights are not dilute though. The head is that color because it is a blue based bird. It must have smokey to make the beak flesh tone. The bird on the left is spread blue, that's why it had the black head. It hard to see but does the one on the right have a black tail or a blue tail with a bar? If bar, then that would confuse me. These are pakistani high flyers right. The right one I'm not sure on, the left I'm 95% the print expression is really only seen in tippler, Pakistanis, indian high flyers, and rollers I believe EDIT: also seen them in Vianna high flyers


http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f41/print-grizzle-31112.html



bluecheck said:


> Light print has been found to be an actual unit factor from what I understand. It's mostly in Tipplers. Here's where you can see a light print grizzle Tippler
> 
> 
> http://spud1.50megs.com/Pictures.htm
> ...





george simon said:


> Hi BECKEY, Here is what Quinn saids in his book The Pigeon Breeders Notebook on page 65 .The "tiger" grizzle of theTipplers, often called"Tippler light-print",acts nontypically in many ways.Possibly, the combination with Tippler bronze (tippler red) produces this variation, but the evidence at present suggests at least two forms of grizzle; "typical"as in Dragoon and the"light print"of the Tippler and show Rollers. Some grizzles darken with the
> first molt,others lighten,especially in combination with recessive red. ..GEORGE


Edit: the tail on the right does looked barred. From all my observations black head = black tail. I have more than 20 to observe.


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

Yes, these are pakistani high flyers
Here is an image where you can find the tail


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

I had a hard time getting out a though before. They seem to both be prints to me. The one on the right could be something else but I don't know. Prints are the majority of pakistanis and most have grizzled heads. I know there's a strain which has solid heads.


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

I have some similar pair, one of these pair shows an offspring with similar pattern but ash red color (ie one in every 5 offsprings)

As ash red color is sexlinked, i am confused because the previous ones were female but latest one is a male!!


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I agree, not spread afterall. But definitely dirty.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

The hen also has a tinge of Bronze, Could be the lighting and photo though


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

These are the yearling produced by the same pair
can any one help me in writing down the genoptype of these print grizzles??


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

only the one on the right would i call a print grizzle. The one on the left looks like it is a dilute blue grizzle. Both the birds in the new picture appear to be dilute blue. Foreign breeds from the middle east, asia, and china can be very difficult to know whats going on. All i know is many pakistanis are print grizzle. I heard they like to breed white birds, because they think there better or something. I don't know other than i know they prefer whiter birds.


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

Print Tippler said:


> only the one on the right would i call a print grizzle. The one on the left looks like it is a dilute blue grizzle. Both the birds in the new picture appear to be dilute blue. Foreign breeds from the middle east, asia, and china can be very difficult to know whats going on. All i know is many pakistanis are print grizzle. I heard they like to breed white birds, because they think there better or something. I don't know other than i know they prefer whiter birds.


Thanks for the help

People here usually like print grizzle and molted
Pure white is not considered good nor used in any kind of racing


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Pijlover said:


> These are the yearling produced by the same pair
> can any one help me in writing down the genoptype of these print grizzles??


A birds complete genotype is very hard to identify through a picture, Generally you would need to know the breeding stock further down the line to get an idea and even then cannot be sure.


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## hamza syed (Jun 22, 2012)

i think the offspring will be like the father because i had the same pair like the above their offspring was like the father.. or the color of the offspring will be like the mother with lighter black color on its head..


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## hamza syed (Jun 22, 2012)

i think the offspring will be like the father because i had the same pair like the above their offspring was like the father.. or the color of the offspring will be like the mother with lighter black color on its head..


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