# help with pigeon eggs



## ScottB (Aug 28, 2003)

I have two pigeon eggs that i came by in a rather unfortunate way... I was painting the patio cover outside my house. I was clearing leaves and twigs out of the space in between the beams when a nest fell off and hit my head. I put the nest back where it was and kept an eye on it periodically until sundown and there were no parent birds in sight. I think i may have scared them off with all the noise i was making while painting. I didn't want to leave them unincubated for the night so i brought them in and put them in a terrarium with a 40w bulb and a thermostat. I've kept them at a steady 100.5deg for the last few days and have been checking in on them as often as possible. There is a tiny crack that just appeared on one of the eggs but i haven't seen any movement at all. Is this normal? I guess im just looking for any advice that can be offered in the event that they do hatch. Thank you all in advance.


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## bigbird (Aug 19, 2000)

Here are some questions;
Do the eggs look fertil, that is are they dark in tone, not light?

If the eggs are dark, the crack could indicate hatching. If they are light eggs, the crack will prevent the baby from developing.

Are you prepared to hand feed the two baby pigeons if the eggs hatch? This is quite a commitment. If you do not want this responsibility, I suggest you remove the eggs from the brooder.

Regards,
Carl


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hello, and Welcome to Pigeons.com

Baby pigeons absolutely have to have their parents the first week of life, they produce a special milk that babies need for the first 7-10 days. 
If these eggs are now hatching they will need step parents or the knowledge from someone here..... someone will come along who has experience with newborns. 

Treesa


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## ScottB (Aug 28, 2003)

Thanks for the quick responses







. I realize that the best place for them is with their natural parents but i started painting early in the morning around 6am or so...nest hit me around 8am and i put it back and stopped painting until abaout 8 at night hoping the parents would show up, but they were no shows and i already felt bad enough for destroying the nest in the first palce. I do realize that they will need a lot of time which i am willing to put forth to save these little guys. I used to breed reptiles so i am used to the time and efforts needed for newborn creatures. I noticed the crack at about 12:30am and have gotten up every 2 hours to check on them since then. As far as how dark the eggs are...im not exactly sure of what you mean, they both look pure white exept the one that had the tiny crack six hours ago now has a much larger crack and a red streak extending from it and the other egg now has a tiny crack as well. Im not sure if this is normal for the babies to take this long to even puncture throught the egg if they are hatching...with reptiles its only a few short hours from the first crack to the end. Also there doesnt seem to be any struggle or movement from the eggs. The cracks just seem to be growing at a very slow rate. Im just not experienced with baby bird hatching so i was hoping ide get some experienced people to help me through this. I've been reading a lot about the baby handfeeding stuff i got at my local petstore and it says it contains digestive enzymes in it. Will the little ones be able to survive off of this? or is it no replacement of the parents crop milk at all? Thank all of you again. Ill be checking in every few hours


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Scott and welcome to pigeons.com. If the eggs do hatch, the babies will have to be kept very warm and will have to be hand fed by syringe or eye dropper. The baby bird formula from the pet store can be used though as has been posted, crop milk from the parents is better. Obviously we're going to have to make do without the real crop milk. 

It is difficult to successfully raise tiny pigeons that haven't had even a day or so of their parent's care, but it is possible. So, keep us posted and if they hatch we'll help you all we can.

Terry Whatley


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Scott,

One of our fprc members was given a pigeon egg, it hatched and the pigeon is doing well, so it is never hopeless. We are at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fprc/ 

These sites will also give you loads of information:
http://members.aol.com/duiven/medical/feedbaby.htm 

http://www.duckpolice.org/BirdWeb/PigeonResourceWeb/babypigeoncare.html 

And I will e-mail you a crop-milk replacement diet, so that if anything hatches you will at least be informed.

Cynthia


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Hi Scott,
Recently I handfed 2 baby pigeons from the time they hatched.From that experience I can tell you that it is possible.It is a fulltime job,and you have to be very careful.One baby is well,now 6 months old,she just had her first eggs(which are not fertilized).She is an indoor pigeon.
The other baby unfortunetly did not make it.It died when it was a week old while feeding.If your eggs hatch I would prefer to feed them with an eyedroper at least for a week.Then you could switch to a siringe.I think you have to be really expierenced to feed them with a siringe because you can put to much food out at one time and it can get into the lungs.With the eydropper you can feed them a drop at a time which is much safer.
Let us know if the eggs hatch and we will provide you with all the infermation you need to know.The people on this site are the nicest I know,and always very prompt in their replies.
Good luck
Reti

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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

Hello,

Hope this post helps you.. I use these techniques when I feed baby and adult pigeons.


When I feed the pigeon I put the bird on a table infront of me, the 
bird's right wing should be facing me and his beak is facing to my 
right. I take my left hand and put it on the bird from behind then 
with my index finger and thumb I keep his beak open (My thumb is 
towards me and my index finger is on the other side of the beak)

This is the standard post I use for people who are raising babies 
with a syringe or eye dropper:


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For a baby 1-13 days I usually feed baby bird formula (From a pet 
shop) with a syringe or a eye dropper.
They are very tiny so you have to be very careful, open the mouth 
gently with your left hand then with an eye dropper suck up some 
soupy formula and feed the baby (be sure not to get anything in the 
hole behind the tongue, That is the windpipe and the baby could 
easily aspirate and die!) 

Feed until the baby's crop looks full but not too much or else it 
could come back up and he could aspirate. 

For pigeons you don't have to wake up at night to feed them, I 
usually just watch the pigeon and when his crop empties I give him 
another feeding. 

As they get older (about 13 days old) you can switch to either soaked 
seeds or soaked puppy chow.
I soak wild bird seed for about 4-5 hours then soak it in warm water, 
drain it and mix abit of baby bird formula with it, Now you can hand 
feed it to the baby by holding his mouth open with your left hand and 
scooping and putting it in his mouth with your right hand. He will 
swallow it. 

With the puppy chow you can soak some pieces in warm water, drain 
then cut them up and put piece by piece in his mouth and again he 
will swallow.

Feed until the crop feels squishy, with the seeds it will feel like a 
beeny baby but it shouldn't feel hard otherwise he is over fed and 
could aspirate.
At about 15-17 days you can introduce dry seeds, put them around the 
baby and peck with your finger at them, he should get the idea 

Hope that helps! 

Mary


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

IMPORTANT:

Other then them getting the best chance in life with two surrogate parents with milk crops, they need EXTRA PRO-BIOTICS in their formula. This means the difference between life and death, as my rehaber saved a newborn by adding the extra pro-biotics!
Treesa


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## ScottB (Aug 28, 2003)

Well everyone the first one has hatched it came all the way out of its shell at 1:32pm. Second egg still has just a small crack. How long do i wait before feeding it? and should i bring the temp down from 100deg to 80deg.


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Well Scott you are in for a long haul if one or both survive.
Hand-rearing from birth is difficult but not impossible. One thing I can say is that the tiny chicks do not produce active enzymes of their own so cannot properly digest formula which is given to them. In the natural state they would recieve these active enzymes in with the parent's crop milk. In this case - in order to help them as much as possible it is advisable to see if you can get hold of some enzyme powder to add to each meal for the first 5 days until they are old enough to manufacture their own.
It is possible to handrear them without this but can be much more difficult, they often don't grow properly as they cannot digest their food properly is in the number one cause of death in very young hand reared chicks.
You need to drop the temperature to about 80 for the hatched chick and keep the egg at about 95. They should both hatch the same day and if the egg was here I would be going in and investigating. It could be dehydrated and therefore not ablet o hatch itself. It is possible to peel some of the shell away starting from where it has chipped and work your way down a little. If severe bleeding occurs which taes a minute or two to stop, then the chick is not ready to hatch. A tiny amount of bleeding is normal - usually just tiny red smears on shell and fingers, which means the chick is ready to hatch. If this is the situation and you would like to try and help, peel away as much as you can until you can hatch the head. That way you can look down inside and see if the yolk has been absorbed into the abdomen. If it has then you can safely hatch the chick and I suspect it will need fluids. A small amount of cooled, boiled water would help it a lot.
Good luck


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Hello Scott & Welcome to Pigeons.com
I just wanted say 'Congratulations' on the first born.

I have not dealt with 'parentless' newborns so I am just going to sit back & learn. I would like to say however...
You will be given the best & most excellent advice from our members who have many, many years of experience. PLEASE take heed to their advice.

Prayers & good thoughts are being sent your way. 
Cindy


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## ScottB (Aug 28, 2003)

Ok, i chipped a little bit of the second egg away just enough so i could see inside. There was no bleedin when i chipped it away but there is a thin red film over the baby i cant se anything that looks like a sack. should i continue to help it hatch or just let it come out on its own. please advise.


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## ScottB (Aug 28, 2003)

just finished feeding the first one at 5:30pm. i put little drops one at a time on the end of its beak and it would open its mouth and suck down the drops. i did this until it stopped opening up. i hope it got enough food in it. how can i tell if it has enough? the other egg still has not hatched i can see it breathing inside but it doesnt seem to be coming out, is this normal or should i try to help it out of the egg? Oh, and how long will it be before it opens its eyes and can hold up its head? Thanks a lot every one.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Scott,

Please review Nooti's advice again just in case I'm misreading her suggestion about helping the second baby to hatch. It seems to me that you should try to help it a bit more being careful about any profuse bleeding.

Great job you've done thus far! Just under the beak and on the front of the chest is the crop where food is stored. As you feed the baby you should be able to see this area fill up and start to look like there is a little balloon inside. For such a young and tiny bird, it won't take much to fill the crop. Gently feel the crop area after the next feeding to get an idea of how plump/full it is. It should feel sort of like a mini-marshmallow for a newly hatched baby. When the crop is empty or nearly empty, it is time to feed the little one again.

It will be about a week before the little bird shows any real sign of being able to hold the head up or use the legs. Be sure you are keeping the little one(s) in a tapered (bigger at top .. smaller at bottom) type of container lined with an old wash cloth or piece of sweatshirt. They need to be able to grasp something with their feet and keep their legs under their bodies. If the "flooring" is too large or too slippery, they will develop splayed legs.

Continued good luck to you and the babes and please keep us posted.

I am not too far from you (South Orange County) and would be happy to give you my phone number if you think I might be of assistance to you. Let me know.

Terry Whatley


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## katiedidittwo2 (Oct 17, 2002)

Can you see if the imbryonic sack is stuck to the squab? You may need to pick the chips of egg off and open the one end. Then let him come on out on his own. If at any point it starts bleeding, keep tapping at the area and smash the vein so it stops bleeding. That is what they do as they are chipping out of the egg. Smashing the veins with their beak. If you cannot see a dark area at the bottom of the egg then the squab is running low on fuel and will need your assitance in getting the top of the egg off. Good Luck! I have raised a few from the egg and it is hard to keep up with the constant feedings as they will need them as often as the crop digests.
Katie
Katie


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## ScottB (Aug 28, 2003)

after a long time of chiping small peices of eggshell away i got the top half of the shell off without any major bleeding. i can now see that there is a small yellow sack attached to it butt. i am asuming that this it the imbryonic sack. i gave it a little bit of warm water which it gladly took in. ive left it in the bottom half of the shell is this ok or should i remove it completely? The first baby seems to be doing great, ive fed it three times already and ive seen it poop once which from what i can tell looks normal (white part and dark part)Hes sleeping now so im going to try to do the same







is it ok to let it go without feeding at night? and for how long? oh and the container they are in is a small glass reptile cage and i put what was left of the nest at the bottom, the nest was lined with soft leaves which i tried to reconstruct is this an ok home for them or do i need to change the setting.


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## ScottB (Aug 28, 2003)

I have noticed a very large change in the second baby/egg in the last three hours. It has doubled in size and is no longer emaciated. Its skin is now brown looking like the first one I can no longer see the heart beating or the ribcage through its side. it is also a lot more animated; moving its head and kicking its foot streaching out its toes. When i first looked at them the first baby had its head reasting on the other's foot and it was consistantly knocking it over, so i turned the egg around so i think everyone is happy now. there seems to be food in the crop still and hes sleeping so i think ill give it a few more hours to digest the rest of its food. should i try to give the one in its egg some food? or should i stick to water until it pops out of the shell? Thanks much for all your replies.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

I do hope you are resting as I type this note.

You have done a fantastic job. 
Only have one 'thumb's up' to display, however, you deserve two!

Please keep us posted on how you & the sweet babies are coming along.
Cindy


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Congratulations Scott!
You are now the proud parents of two bouncing baby newborn pigeons!!! Glad to hear you're doing so well! Those 4 times a day feedings are a little rough, but you'll soon enjoy parenthood, as they "peep "peep" at the crack of dawn, and again before dark! Keep us posted and do get some rest! It is very rewarding as they grow to depend on you, and you will the be the first person they see when they open their eyes.
Once again...CONGRATULATIONS Treesa


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## katiedidittwo2 (Oct 17, 2002)

Scott:
By now the 2nd baby should be out. Do not pull the baby out of the egg. When the yellow sack has emptied it will dry up and the cord will dry along with it. If you pull the cord any at all right then it could pull on the cord and pull the cord out of the baby. I do not feed at night. Parents do not feed at night either. Just run with your instincts on this as it sounds you are doing the right thing at the right time. Buy some wood chips to put in the bottom of their cage and put an aquarium light hood in a corner so they can adjust themselves to where the heat does them best. If you have them on a heat pad they cannot adjust their body to where it is best for them. Leafs may contain bacteria you do not want.
Katie


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## ScottB (Aug 28, 2003)

I want everyone to know how much i appreciate your support with this. I have been sleeping just in 3hours at a time so i can feed the babes. At around 7am i helped the second one by breaking a little bit more of the shell then he pushed the rest of the way out. he had a little bit of the sack still attached to him which dried by the 10 o'clock feeding. now its hard to tell which is which. I have fresh pine wood chips which i use to line the rat cages so im going to put that in there next feeding. Should i compleatly remove the nest and just line the bottom with the wood chips or should i leave the nest and line it with the wood chips? they do seem to like to curl up and sleep in the nest. ill keep you all posted as things progress and thank you all again.


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Hi Scott
First chance I've had to log on and see what's been happening. For a beginner you've done a super job, especially with the second egg.
I am in the UK and the timings are different on the site for me so I've no idea when you last posted, but keep an eye on the yellow yolk sac. Once it has shrivelled to an empty sac it is safe to peel the rest of the egg shell off. If you peel the shell off instead of peeling the chick from the shell you will not cause any bleeding and the cord will dry up and drop off when it is ready.
I suspected at least one chick would be dehydrated when I read that you'd been incubating them for a few days. The eggs need a certain amount of humidity and if they get too little the result is what is commonly termed a weak chick - dead in shell- which is what the second one would have been had you not investigated. Too much humidity and oedema results usually in the neck. This is a build up of fluid in the neck which puts pressure on the windpipe causing the chick to suffocate as it is squashed inside the shell. This can be relieved by hatching the head and drawing off the excess fluid from under the skin with a needle and syringe. This was the reason why I asked you to hatch the head. That way you can find out what's actually wrong and put it right before hatching, thereby saving a life.
At newborn the chicks need about 1ml - (cc) of formula at each feed- rising to 5ml or more by 1 week. By 2 weeks they should be on 20ml per feed and by 3 weeks 40ml. Hand reared chicks often get dehydrated during the night in their first week because they have to be kept warm and as a consequence lose fluid overnight without it being replenished. I have seen my pidgies feeding their chicks late at night and early morn, especially during the very short daylight hours of winter. Try to feed as late as possible and as early as possible the following morning. Ideally no more than 5 hours should elapse between last and first feeds overnight for the first week.
You will find that they will need feeding very soon after the first feed of the morning, then can go longer between feeds. This is due to natural dehydration during the night hours. The first feed is digested and fluids from it sent to the major organs very quickly so consequently the crop can empty often within an hour and need replenishing. Then they may not need feeding again for 3 hours or so.
I will look out some pictures of a baby with an empty crop and one with a full one and will email them to you if I can find your email address, then you have some idea of what a full crop looks like.


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## ScottB (Aug 28, 2003)

hi guys sorry its been so long since my last update. at this point things are looking really good. the two babies seem to be doing just fine, they are both willingly eating regularly, although the one that came out second seems to digest a bit slower than the first. they really seem to like snuggling up with each other even though they seem to have to squirm and change positions every thirty seconds. they have even started very faint under their breath squeeks. I guess now my next challenge is naming them







.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

What a wonderful update Scott.
I am so excited for you & the babies. 
Hope you all have a restful night.
Cindy




[This message has been edited by AZWhitefeather (edited August 29, 2003).]


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

OMG! Thank you for such a good news update. Please keep us posted! You have done a fine job with these babies!

Terry Whatley


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

although the one that came out second seems to digest a bit slower than the first.
**********************************
Scott
It is possible this one has paratyphoid and if this is so its chances are not good. However, we need more than just that symptom on the first day of life before we decide that paratyphoid is likely.
In the meantime, glad everything is going ok. I have emailed you a couple of piccies showing a full and empty crop - hope you get them ok.

[This message has been edited by Nooti (edited August 29, 2003).]


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## ScottB (Aug 28, 2003)

Nootie, are you suggesting that it has food poisoning? i realize that it wouldn't necessarily be from the food itself but from something in its surroundings maybe. If this is the case and it does have Salmonella Paratyphoid should i give it anti-biotics or will this kill the good digestive bacteria as well? Just so you know it is does seem to be digesting the food just slower. to be more specificwhen i wrote that earlier the first ones crop had emptied two and a half hours after feeding and the second one's crop didnt seem to empty for about three hours and fifteen minutes. i didnt think it was anything to worry about. On a happier not, they both still seem to be doing fine, eating willingly and sleeping peacefuly. I'm planning to feed them once more around 12 or 1 and then get to bed. Is there anything i can do to help prevent them from getting to dehydrated at night? i have a humidifier that i use for reptiles it has a on/off timer that i can set in 30min intervals is this a good idea or will it harm them? thanks again to all of you and i hope you all have a good night.


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Hi Scott
No - paratyphoid is a virus in which this strain is specific to pigeons - nothing to do with human food poisoning. Slow crop is a symptom but if it is only taking half an hour more to digest than the first hatched I don't think you have much of a problem. If it detriorates then Baytril is the antibiotic which deals effectively with this situation, the only downside being that Enrofloxacine - the active ingredient in Baytril inhibits bone growth and therefore theoretically should not be given to juveniles, however I have treated many for paratyphoid and the youngsters involved have eventually grown to full size taking just that big longer. No other problems have been noted. However, I don't think it is time to go down that road yet - just be aware that if the parents do carry the virus it can be passed to the emryos - and usually only one chick is affected.


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## ScottB (Aug 28, 2003)

Good morning everyone. Just finished the first feeding of the day. They both look like they have grown a lot since hatching. I'de say they look 20-25% larger. Every time i check on them they are shifting positions and while doing so one will kick the other or push it over, it lets out a little squeek and then is back for more. Because of this I've decided to call the first born Curly and the second born Moe. To bad theres no third baby.







At the last feeding last night around 1am they were both ready to eat, so it looks like they are both digesting at about the same amount of time now. So far only good news to report.


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## bigbird (Aug 19, 2000)

Hi Scott, thanks for the updates and your great efforts on behalf of these two birds.
At about 1 week I usually begin to teach the baby birds to drink fresh water. This is done at the end of each feeding. I hold them in both hands and turn them up so they can dip their beaks into a cup of fresh water. Some baby pigeons learn fast how to drink water, other are slower, but eventually all baby pigeons learn from this method early on how to drink. 
I think that drinking water after each feeding promotes digestion and prevents
dehydration. If they are not thirsty, they will just dip but not drink, so you don't have to worry about them getting to much water. 

Also, if you have the baby pigeons under a light or heat source, they will need extra water.

Thanks again for your efforts on behalf of these two baby pigeons.
You are, without a doubt, a prime example to all of us pigeon lovers that nothing is to difficult if you put your heart and mind into it 100%.

Regards,
Carl



[This message has been edited by bigbird (edited August 30, 2003).]


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Scott,

Thank you for another update, glad to hear the babies are doing well. You are an excellent stepparent. Since they are growing you will see their intake of formula start to increase. Keep up the good job. 
Treesa


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## ScottB (Aug 28, 2003)

It's been all day since my last post. Curly and Moe are eating and sleeping a lot and seem to be happy. other than that nothing really to report. I did want to ask when should i start mixing the formula to a thicker consistancy. I've been making it very thin and i just want to make sure they are getting enough nutrition in their diet. I also wanted to say that because of scheduling my day around their feedings, i have gotten more work done than usual and i feel like I've accomplished a lot in a single day. Bassically what im saying is that these cute/ugly little guys have helped me as much as ive helped them.









Have a good night all!


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

So glad to hear the babies have done you a favor! If they are really starting to take in a lot of formula and they are getting hungrier at an earlier time, you can start making a thicker consistency, they will let you know if they like it....keep us posted with your thoughts and updates. We are really enjoying them! Treesa


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## ScottB (Aug 28, 2003)

Trees, when you say "getting hungrier at an earlier time" do you mean earlier in the morning or less time between feedings? Because they have been taking in a lot more formula over twice as much as before, but they are actually taking more time inbetween feedings about 4 hours now. Although it does vary by the time of day.

Both the babies are doing well. They are starting to move around the cage a lot more, not walking, just squirming their way around. I've also noticed that they are starting to grab on to things on the bottom of the cage so there has obviosly been a lot of development in their feet. I've also been giving them some warm water inbetween feedings to keep them hydtrated. They seem to be enjoying themselves, they get handfed, they poop, and then they roll over on to their backs and sleep away the day. How nice it must be...


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## ScottB (Aug 28, 2003)

Just a quick question, can the babies go longer at night now? Because I fed them at 10:30 and i just went to check on them (1:30am) and their crops seemed quite full. I just gave them some water instead of formula. Should i be worried, or is this normal?

[This message has been edited by ScottB (edited September 01, 2003).]

[This message has been edited by ScottB (edited September 01, 2003).]


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Good Morning Scott, and happy Labor Day!

The babies should need only 4 feedings between sun up and sun down, they shouldn't be eating after 9 p.m. 4 hours between feeding, that is right on! They sound like they are doing quite well, and quite spoiled! Keep it up.
I ended up having to fill the syringes about twice as much with my babies at about the same age as your babies. If a light went on in the "wee hours" 4a.m they would start peeping until we fed them. We thought they were starving, but they just thought it was dawn, and time to eat!
Are there poops nice and firm, like thick tasty freeze icecream. There should be a nice thick stream, brownish color? Sorry, but it is easier to describe, that way......
Treesa


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## ScottB (Aug 28, 2003)

Hey guys, bad news i just finished the first feed of the day but only one was fed. Moe had died sometime in the three hours since i last checked on him. I'm very very upset, i was growing quite fond of the little guys. I'm going to go out and give him a liitle funeral in a few minutes. Both of their excretions have been thick, greenish brown/white, and fairly regular. I don't know what happened, I mean he didn't give me any warnings and seemed to be doing so well. Sorry to bring this bad news to you all, I just hope that he enjoyed the short time that he lived and went without suffering! I'll keep you all posted on how Curly is doing, I hope for the best.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Hi Scott,I am so sorry for your loss.I know how you feel.I was devastated when the same happened to me with Angel,s brother.Fortunetly Angel made it.She will be 6 months old in 2 days.She is having eggs now,and I am her mate.After her brother died I put all my time and efforts in raising her and it paid off,she is my loving pet and best friend.
I hope all goes well with your remaining little guy.
Keep us posted.
Reti

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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Scott,
I'm so sorry to hear this. He surely enjoyed the time he had with you, as you took great care of him. This just happens sometimes, and there is nothing you can do about it. 
Treesa


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

I'm sorry









I hope the other babies is well and please keep us posted.

Mary


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Dear Scott,
I'm so sorry to hear about Moe.

Your accomplishments have been next to a miracle. Because of your compassion & endless efforts, Moe's short life, from first to last breath, was surrounded by your love & gentle touch, & that, my friend, is worthy of internal fulfillment. Moe has forever nested in your heart. 

Love, prayers & 'Good Thoughts' are sent to you & Curly.

Will be looking forward to Curly's next update.
Cindy


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## Amber (Nov 17, 2002)

Scott....I am very sorry to hear of your loss. It is very hard I knowm when you put soo much time into a baby and they dont make it. But you are doing all you can do, and you are doing great! Maybe Moe had paratyphoid after all. It is more common than you would think that a baby wouls appear fine, and then pass away without warning. Just concentrate on Curly and your adventures will still be considered a success. Most people would not have even cared enough to pick up the eggs and wonder, your very special.

Good Luck!
Amber


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Scott,

I am so sorry!!! But I heard that death at this stage is so very common with hand reared chicks. 

You gave him the very best care he could have been given in the circumstances and it sounds as if he was well fed and comfortable to the end.

Cynthia


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## ScottB (Aug 28, 2003)

Well guys, Curly didn't make it. I've been checking in on him every hour since this morning to make sure he was ok. Everything seemed fine, he ate just an hour ago and didn't show any signs either. I dont understand how the two of them went from doing so well the first three days to passing away on the fourth. Sometimes life can be just downright cruel. At least i know he went quickly, moest likely peacefuly, and most definately with a full stomach. I loved these guys so much and i just hope it wasnt anything that i did wrong.

All of you out there, thank you so much for all of your help, support, and condolences. I really appreciate all you have done for me and the babies. You people are the nicest and friendliest people i have ever talked to. 

Thank you all again.

Have a great Labor Day!

-Scott


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

It is so tragic that they went, Scott, but it wasn't anything that you did wrong!

Katie is a very experienced breeder and she had mentioned on another list that hand reared pigeons will seem all right and then die after a couple of days. Some do make it, and I was really praying that Curly and Moe would pull through! You certainly gave them a chance to live even though you were working against the odds

Bless you for giving them love and care during their brief lifetime!

Cynthia


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Scott,I am so sorry.
I don't thing you did anything wrong.I believe that their natural parents give them something that we foster parents can't give them.You did everything you could and you did great.I am sure they were happy in their short lives.

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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Hi Scott
I've just managed to find time to log on and see what's been happening only to read the bad news.
I'm so sorry. You tried your best, and in fact went more rounds with them than any beginner I've known. You had the courage to try and it's just so sad that it didn't work out.
It could have been because they didn't have active enzymes in their formula and so weren't getting the nutrition they needed - but one will never know.
But you have gained experience - very valuable. And I am sure if it happened again, you would do it all over again. You never know when you may be needed again.
Take care Scott, and thank you for trying.


[This message has been edited by Nooti (edited September 01, 2003).]


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