# Do you take your birds to a Avian Vet



## DEEJAY7950 (Dec 13, 2006)

I'm just curious how many people here take their birds to an Avian Vet?


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## DEEJAY7950 (Dec 13, 2006)

Well that didn't work, I was trying to set up a poll just to see how many people take birds to the vet but no poll option showed up?


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## DEEJAY7950 (Dec 13, 2006)

I have a feeling it is very few indeed due to the cost involved! Any way we tend to take care of things with-in the pigeon community!


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

I've never taken one of my birds to an avian vet. Never needed to (knock on wood) and if I did think they needed a vet........I'd just give Pidgey a call.  
We don't even have an avian vet around here that I know of. My vet that sees my dogs had a white pigeon dropped off one day and called us. She told my husband it was a banded bird and was in fine shape. He went and picked it up and it was a bag o' bones.........barely alive. So, none of MY birds will go to see her. 
I don't think that most fanciers take their birds to a vet unless it's a REAL emergency. 
I've had two birds die in my loft in the past 7 years. Neither of which I realized anything was wrong. One hen I noticed looking "off" somehow. I picked her up off of the perch to check her out and in about 30 seconds she was dead. I have no earthly idea what was wrong with her. The other went on a 40 mile training toss and died that night.


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

To quite honest, it is extremely difficult to find a qualified avian vet. I guess the money isn't in it. Dogs and cats give them a much bigger market. 

Now, get this, I am in Atlanta which is just down the road from Athens. You know...the "Go Dawgs" Athens. This is home to one of the largest and finest veterinary schools in the country, but can you find an avian vet anywhere in the state? Good luck.

Very high on my "to do" list is to invest in a microscope and learn how to use it. At least I would be able to do my own fecals and crop flushes. So, I guess to answer your question...no, I do not take my birds to an avian vet, at least I haven't yet.

Dan


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

I had to find an avian vet in the town I used to live in, and it was a nightmare. Especially trying to find someone who treated pigeons...the reactions I got!   This was back in the beginning of my pigeon years when I had Pierre who was covered in oil. I'm so sorry I didn't know about this site then!!!!!!!!! Of course we ended up learning how to wash the oil out and get the strings off her toes and she turned out fine.

So when I moved to this town I asked a lot of people about avian vets, and though most of them treat mostly parrots and such, there is one I stumbled across by accident. I was calling around to find a vet who would humanely put my very ill (she had cancer) rat to sleep, and with rats there is a special way to do it where they don't feel pain, involving anesthetic gas first (putting one to sleep with an injection causes a lot of pain, which I never knew before). There were NO vets who would do the gas first followed by injection. Until one vet tech recommended a different vet and I called there and they not only did that method, but knew why it was important to do it that way. They were kind and thoughtful, receptionists included, and treated my little rat the same as a cat or dog. There were bird posters all over the place and I asked if he treats birds, and he does, and had a nice reaction to my having pigeons (and knows about pigeons). So while I've never had to take one there yet, at least I know I have one. It's important to find a vet before you need one!


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## kippermom (Jan 11, 2006)

Here's my vote...

I DO take my sick birds to an avian vet...if the diagnosis is not crystal clear to me with the help of this site so I know how to treat it, or if the problem, though obvious, is beyond my ability to treat...they go to the vet. 
One was a dog bite rescue from the shelter that needed stitches added then removed...
One needed surgery to correct a badly splayed leg, which did not respond to all the suggestions here...
And one is under treatment now with vague symptoms being discussed under another thread. (I lost one two weeks ago with the same symptoms so clearly my supportive care, heat and observation did not do the trick!)


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

There are several in Portland but only one I will take my birds to. 
It's a good idea to do investigation and find out who is in your area that is willing to run a fecal or throat swab and is available if you have an emergency.
It's also critical to have an emergency kit ready because something always happens and if you need to scramble to find what you need or wait for meds from one of the pigeon supply places, it could put the life of your bird/birds at risk.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

I think most of us here have taken their pigeons to a vet at some point or will in the future.

It is *EXTREMELY* difficult to find a qualified, savvy, knowledgeable and caring avian vet who knows anything about pigeons in most places and those people who have, are very, VERY lucky.

I've been through approximately 4 vets over the years and my current vet is the best I'm going to find around here and that isn't saying much.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

I can say that Squeaks is VERY fortunate to have a first rate Avian Vet, who also has pigeons of his own.

There is another Avian Vet closer than Dr. Burke that I can use in an emergency. Cindy found him. I did meet him but haven't taken any birds to him yet.

Our area is fortunate to have Avian Vets in various parts of the Valley. I have names, but no info on how good they are...

Shi


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

learning said:


> To quite honest, it is extremely difficult to find a qualified avian vet. I guess the money isn't in it. Dogs and cats give them a much bigger market.
> 
> Dan


Here's where to find an avian vet: http://www.aav.org/vet-lookup/

Here in So Cal, a "real" avian vet doesn't really care to treat pigeons, doves, chickens, ducks, geese and other "lowly" avian species. Around here the avian vets are pretty much parrot vets and just to walk in their door is $300-500. Everything else is extra, and you would be lucky to get out for about $1,500.00 if any tests were done. Heaven help you if your bird was really actually sick, injured, or required surgery .. time for a second mortgage on your home .. I'm not kidding. You would be looking at a MULTI thousand dollar vet bill here in So Cal.

Here in my area, the ONLY avian certified vet that I know of that treats the "lowly" birds like pigeons, doves, chickens, ducks, geese and such is Dr. Bart Huber in Corona. How he can be avian certified just like the "in town" guys and charge so much less is a wonder .. but it's also a blessing!

Terry


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

TAWhatley said:


> Here's where to find an avian vet: http://www.aav.org/vet-lookup/


Thanks for the link, Terry. I expect you've posted it before, but I just noticed it is an international list and includes one only about 25 miles from my home town.

We may take one of the aviary pigeons, or a new rescue, to a vet if it needs treatment for injury outside our ability or knowledge, or for diagnosis and meds if a problem is not identifiable. 

The one Cynthia generally goes to is not an avian specialist, but does deal with pigeons and other birds and makes the effort to find out about pigeons. He is honest about what he does and doesn't know. He doesn't charge a consultation fee for our new rescues. Occasionally, Cynthia takes in a pigeon or dove who has been found and brought to the vet practice, for ongoing care. So it kinda works both ways.

There is also a practice, where they have at least one 'real' avian vet who deals with local fanciers' birds, a good few miles away. We have taken birds to them a few times - they would be my choice for anything requiring surgery. Fortunately, they don't charge anything like the prices Terry mentioned!

John


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I once made an appointment to see the "avian specialist" at the surgery that John mentioned. They told me that the initial consultation was around £60 as I was bringing in an "exotic" and would need a triple consultation period.

The next time I had to go there (at the sick pigeon's rescuer's request) I just asked for an appointment to see "Louise"...the same person, but that cost just under £20.

My own vet may not be an avian specialist, but I prefer to see him as he never tries to bluff me .

Cynthia


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

There is one avian clinic here in Miami and there used to be two vets working there. The one I was going to was great as he didn't charge an arm and a leg, I could go in at any time if I had an emergency even after hours, always returned my calls and emails. It helped that I also worked for him for more than a year and I learned a lot from him. Unfortunately he left so I have to use the other vet in the clinic now, which is a great avian vet, one of the best in the country but he charges, oh boy. Not as bad as Terry mentioned but very close. So, I take only the birds that don't respond to my initial treatment. 


Reti


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I take my birds to my local licensed rehabber who has the experience of dealing with alot of pigeons as well as all Florida birds (land and and sea), should I be unable to figure out the issue. She does the exams and mends broken bones and pretty much can figure out what is going on if I can't. 

If it requires an X ray or a fecal I take them down to a local vet recommended to me by the rehabber, which I have not needed. Avian vets around here also do not know much about pigeons at all, and most tests they send out to labs to have done and are expensive.


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## DEEJAY7950 (Dec 13, 2006)

So bottom line is, there are few avian vets to find and if you did find one the cost is really prohibited and outrageous! The best answer to this thread comes from"Dan post #5" in which I agree we have to read up and learn as much as we can then buy our own equipment and do our own fecal exams!


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

I still swear by my beloved Dr. Lee who is not avian certified but has some avian experience (and actually quite a bit thanks to me and all my birds over the past 10+ years). Dr. Lee is quite a competent and caring vet and is a terrific surgeon and great at setting difficult breaks and such. He is extremely fair and reasonable with charges for any and all rescues .. dogs, cats, birds, rabbits .. doesn't matter.

While he may lack an avian certification, he is still #1 in my book and has helped save countless birds and animals for me and many of my rescue friends in So Cal.

There have been times when I really would have liked a real avian vet to treat an incoming bird, but there is simply no possible way I could pay the fees.

I have a duck rescue friend who took an elderly male Pekin duck from a park here in So Cal as the duck was old and not doing well. He took the duck to one of the premier avian vets in the area and more than $5,400.00 later still has an old, arthritic, crippled duck. My friend was a fool, and the vet was unethical, IMO, to charge that kind of money for an old duck that didn't even belong to my friend. 

Terry


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

TAWhatley said:


> I still swear by my beloved Dr. Lee who is not avian certified but has some avian experience (and actually quite a bit thanks to me and all my birds over the past 10+ years). Dr. Lee is quite a competent and caring vet and is a terrific surgeon and great at setting difficult breaks and such. He is extremely fair and reasonable with charges for any and all rescues .. dogs, cats, birds, rabbits .. doesn't matter.
> 
> While he may lack an avian certification, he is still #1 in my book and has helped save countless birds and animals for me and many of my rescue friends in So Cal.
> 
> ...


I agree with you, Terry. There are many good vets that are capable of treating birds, have the knowledge but aren't certified Avian vets.


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## DEEJAY7950 (Dec 13, 2006)

Jeeez 5,000 dollars for and old duck? I wonder if this person went in without getting some sort of an idea as to the cost or charges that would apply? Unless this person has un-told riches? For most of us that is sure a GREAT deal of money, I have a hard time scraping up enough money for my drugs due to my diabetes, sometimes the money is so tight for all the different medications! I understand the compassion this person must have felt for this old duck and there must have been a lot of love attached also to spend like that but it is hard to justify that much money into an old duck that in the end is no better off then when it was first brought in to be seen, Dare I say they seen you coming with open check book in hand and took advantage? if so I believe they will get there's in the end, what comes around goes around as the old saying goes! So sad a story!


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

learning said:


> To quite honest, it is extremely difficult to find a qualified avian vet. I guess the money isn't in it. Dogs and cats give them a much bigger market.
> 
> Now, get this, I am in Atlanta which is just down the road from Athens. You know...the "Go Dawgs" Athens. This is home to one of the largest and finest veterinary schools in the country, but can you find an avian vet anywhere in the state? Good luck.
> 
> ...


 I suspect Dan, that this is pretty much the norm, anywhere inside the USA. You must become your own vet. My personal experience with a local Avian practice, with three "Avian" specialists.....is they know only the general stuff they learned in medical school. 

In a panic I once rushed a valuable hen to them which we thought was egg bound. First they did not think she was egg bound, they had no idea about the number of eggs, or the reproductive cycle of a pigeon. They had been there for well over a decade, but had never treated a pigeon before. They took an Xray and surprise !..... ...."Oh I guess you are correct, there is an egg in there"......my confidence level in them, went to 0. Seems the five decades of fancier experience of my loft manager was worth a whole lot more, then the decades of parrot experience of these "Avian Vets". Hundreds of dollars poorer, but much wiser, I sought my own counsel. My loft manager and I took matters into our own hands, and the hen was fine.

This was the very first, and last visit to a so called "Avian" vet. Without any pigeon experience, they are almost totally useless. Unless you have the time, money and books etc. to allow them to educate themselves. Their estimate for a loft visit, to review the general health of my birds was to run thousands of dollars....I almost laughed in their face. I guess that is why they call it "practicing medicine". For what I spent to demonstrate their ignorance, I could have purchased all the available bibles of pigeon health and medicine. So, if you are going to need or want some good pigeon medical advice, you need to educate yourself on the subject. 

There may be a small handful of exceptions in a nation of 300 million plus, but for the vast majority of readers here, you better get some books and start reading.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I'am lucky enough to work at a vet that has a great avian vet there. I get a 90 percent discount, and I can take fecals in anytime and have the tech check it out. I can also order products through them with a discount. but even with all that. after reading here on this sight, you are the one careing for and feeding and medicating the bird most of the time. I have not gotten my birds yet, but I'am bulding up my birdie first aid kit and reading reading reading!


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## DEEJAY7950 (Dec 13, 2006)

So the best advise we can give someone with a sick bird is from our own experience and that of members here @ PT, so i would think telling a new person to take a bird to a vet of any kind would really be doing them and this hobby or sport a dis-service! So new people please listen to the vast knowledge base here on this site @ your service!


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

DEEJAY7950 said:


> So the best advise we can give someone with a sick bird is from our own experience and that of members here @ PT, *so i would think telling a new person to take a bird to a vet of any kind would really be doing them and this hobby or sport a dis-service!* So new people please listen the the vast knowledge base here on this site @ your service!


Not necessarily. I think it depends on each individual situation.

Cindy


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

AZWhitefeather said:


> Not necessarily. I think it depends on each individual situation.
> 
> Cindy


I agree with Cindy. It's not so black and white. We are not vets. We can't see the bird in trouble or touch it and even if we have pictures, they alone don't tell the whole story. Precious time can be wasted, trying to figure out what's wrong with a really sick bird. Time wasted that may cost the bird's life.
Several of us have said that the vet doesn't need to treat birds exclusively or have the avian designation to know what they are doing. ...and they don't.
So you have a bird that needs surgery...what are you going to do?...


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## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

There are 2 where I live so I would say I am lucky, but only 1 which I would trust as the other one although a nice lady doesn't really care about the bird but more about the money, besides I took a juvenille Mourning Dove around 3 years ago with a poo plug and she tore the cloaca in 3 different spots because she had a broken pelvic girdle knowing the bird was going back to the wild after rehabbing her she charged me $80 then another $20 for meds and the next day she had yet another plug so I opted to put her down as she was in great pain and she charged me another $25 to put her down so she is in my red X book to never take anything to her again.


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

I count myself very lucky to have a number of good avian vets in driving distance. There is only one (so far) though that I use for the pigeons, as she has experience with them and other non-cage bird type birds. She's been very helpful to me in the past and also extends a lot of no charge assitance to local rehabbers. 

I do my own fecals, and I can identify the usual suspects, but it takes a LOT of practice with that to be able to reliably determine exactly what is wrong and when dealing with a sick bird, I still take them to the Dr. if there is anything I'm not sure of. You have to treat with the right medications and to make those choices, you really have to know exactly what is wrong. That takes lots of experience.


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

Charis said:


> I agree with Cindy. It's not so black and white. We are not vets. We can't see the bird in trouble or touch it and even if we have pictures, they alone don't tell the whole story. Precious time can be wasted, trying to figure out what's wrong with a really sick bird. Time wasted that may cost the bird's life.
> Several of us have said that the vet doesn't need to treat birds exclusively or have the avian designation to know what they are doing. ...and they don't.
> So you have a bird that needs surgery...what are you going to do?...


have to agree with Charis and Cindy...it is not good to draw the conclusion that referring someone to a vet is a bad idea. There is a huge repository of knowledge here to be sure, but it's done remotely and it's just not the same as having a qualified expert make a first-hand evaluation. I really doubt anyone would advise AGAINST seeing a vet if one is available.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

TheSnipes said:


> I count myself very lucky to have a number of good avian vets in driving distance. There is only one (so far) though that I use for the pigeons, as she has experience with them and other non-cage bird type birds. She's been very helpful to me in the past and also extends a lot of no charge assitance to local rehabbers.
> 
> I do my own fecals, and I can identify the usual suspects, but it takes a LOT of practice with that to be able to reliably determine exactly what is wrong and when dealing with a sick bird, I still take them to the Dr. if there is anything I'm not sure of. You have to treat with the right medications and to make those choices, you really have to know exactly what is wrong. That takes lots of experience.


Then, we can start sending our droppings to you for analysis???  
Just kidding of course. I had a microscope that I borrowed from someone a while back and tried looking at some droppings, but all I saw was a bunch of "stuff" that I didn't know what it was.


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

Lovebirds said:


> Then, we can start sending our droppings to you for analysis???
> Just kidding of course. I had a microscope that I borrowed from someone a while back and tried looking at some droppings, but all I saw was a bunch of "stuff" that I didn't know what it was.


Yeah I would be able to say, "there's something in there"  That is the problem, learning to recognize what is what. I have LOTS to learn


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## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

I think that most of the time the members here are the place to begin. I would say that 95% of the time the problems can be resolved with guidance from the list. 

As Terry pointed out, the word Avian in front of Vet increases the price into the ozone layer. And to boot many of them don't know much about pigeons. They are hookbill specialists. That is where the money is and it's all they know. Now and again you will find a pigeon knowledgeable regular vet. Treat him or her with kid gloves. Take em See's candy and homemade cookies from time to time. They are rare and valuable people you need to stay close to.

IMO the best thing to do is as Dan said, learn as much as you can so that when there is a problem you can approach it with some knowledge with which to assess it and treat it. It might be useful to create a list for the forum of situations that members feel need vet attention. I'm thinking of one of those go to the emergency room if.......type things. Some members have the skill to handle just about anything, but I think the newer folks and many of us older ones do have to consult a vet from time to time.

Margaret


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

TheSnipes said:


> Yeah I would be able to say, "there's something in there"  That is the problem, learning to recognize what is what. I have LOTS to learn


So then...it's naive for us to think we can go out and buy a microscope and be in business to diagnose pigeon fecals...right? I'm disappointed that those little squiggles don't carry microscopic signs identifying them minute selves.


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

Charis said:


> So then...it's naive for us to think we can go out and buy a microscope and be in business to diagnose pigeon fecals...right? I'm disappointed that those little squiggles don't carry microscopic signs identifying them minute selves.


yes they should! They should wear little team colors, or something. I think it is very wise to acquire your own tools and given enough practice and consultation with someone more experienced become confident at it. Like anything else of course! But some things have a steeper learning curve.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Would I trade my "regular" vet for an avian vet? Absolutely not. She has been our vet for about 14 years and has never turned away any bird. I'm like Terry in that I think I have helped her by taking sooooo many to her which adds to her experience but her basic knowledge and love of birds makes her exceptional. A number of members of the group I belong to also take their birds and mammals to her. I am also fortunate that she usually charges me zero for their care. About the only time we pay is for surgery and some meds but even then we are given a discount. Even though she does most of our work gratis, my average time with her is at least 45 minutes...often longer. I never feel rushed or unwelcome. She makes me feel good when she praises me or talks about me with other doctors or clients.

When I go to her practice, they don't just take the bird away and leave me in the waiting room. I go with the bird and she shows me what she is doing and explains diseases and procedures in a way I can understand. I go in the lab area and look at the microscope slides and she explains what I'm seeing. I am able to go into the areas most clients can't. She has helped me so much with medicine dosages. She writes out the formula in a way I can understand because I do have trouble understanding some of the formulas. She also will not hesitate to confer with other vets, even in other states, about a problem. 

We also are fortunate that we have access to two other knowledgeable vets with their own practices plus an after hours clinic with great vets. When we have an emergency after the vet practices close our birds go to the after hours clinic. All the vets there know my vet and will call her at home if it is a particularly bad problem with a specific bird.

NC State University has a wonderful vet school and until about 4 years ago our vet referred us to them for unusual problems. Sadly, they have eliminated their avian program.

While I believe we should read and learn all we can, I will continue to recommend that a member take their bird to a vet especially when the symptoms are vague or when there are injuries. While some members have the ability and equipment to do fecal studies, I doubt any one of us can do blood analysis or complicated surgery which can be crucial in saving a bird's life. Sometimes, specimens have to be sent to special labs in other states for analysis and diagnosis. Only a vet can do that. I also don't want a bird to suffer needlessly and if, in their best judgment the bird needs to be euthanized, they do it in a humane manner. Our vet works so hard to save any bird we take in and in all the years we have gone to her I doubt there are more than 10 she has recommended they be euthanized. I trust her judgment. Several times, with other vets, I have argued their recommendation to euthanize simply because, yes, I felt like I had more experience with pigeons. Most of them know us and will accede to our wishes because they know how much we care and take care of birds.

Well, I didn't mean to get on a soap box but veterinary care is something I feel strongly about. I try, every time I take a bird in, particularly if it is something out of the ordinary, or something new I have learned, to share that visit with members. I feel it helps us all to be better caretakers, whether we're rehabbing or simply keep birds for racing or showing.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Margarret said:


> As Terry pointed out, the word Avian in front of Vet increases the price into the ozone layer. *And to boot many of them don't know much about pigeons. They are hookbill specialists. That is where the money is and it's all they know.* Now and again you will find a pigeon knowledgeable regular vet.


I definitely concur with you and this is exactly the truth. Nearly all avian vets are parrot specialists. These are the birds they likely studied the most and learned about in vet school. It's also a reason and probably a personal interest many avian vets got into the practice... psittacines.

The very first vet I went to was a parrot specialist and she touted that as soon as I stepped into her office. She even admitted that she didn't know a whole lot about pigeons. She asked me how much I paid for my bird at the time...I told her $40, and she basically smirked and said that the tests I wanted were probably not worth it. However, if I was willing to pay and the bird was important to me, that was up to me.

My current vet was recommended to me by another member of this forum. This vet works at a clinic right next door to a zoo and I was also told she had experience with pigeons; that she'd treated some fanciers pigeons as well as pigeons at the zoo on occasion. I lost my faith in her the day she left a message on my cell phone saying that paratyphoid and paramixo virus were the same thing. She's not bad otherwise, but she is the one who couldn't find the problem with my Henny. After all the tests, the extremely expensive anti-fungal medication and numerous fecal tests, Henny died while having blood drawn. She wouldn't offer an "opinion", speculate about anything. I blame her for killing my pigeon. I know I shouldn't, but I do. Henny had pneumonia that slowly weakened her over a period of nearly 3 months. (Sigh)

Anyway, I would try to learn to do fecal floats and microscopies myself, but those tests don't really cost very much to run. And if these people who are trained to look for organisms in feces can't always make an accurate diagnosis (whether it's a parrot or a pigeon), then I probably couldn't do it accurately myself.


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