# Gangrene - very very bad feet



## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

A matter of faith: i left my laptop outside for 10 min last Saturday, it started to rain. My computer broke and Since i had nothing to do i went to the parking lot by the mall to feed pigeons. It caught my attention a pigeon eating while laying on the tummy, it couldn't stand up from the pain in its feet. Very swollen feet. It was full if ties. Sunday went again trying to catch it. Monday coming back from work i started feeding them and to my surprise i caught her with my bare hands.She was the only one eating very close to me, as i was sitting on the curb.

I know this is been discussed before, but this time i need step by step advise please. I washed the feet,I removed the threads. Very difficult since threads became one with the skin; there was one that when i pulled it was coming out with skin and flesh was splitting and started to bleed. I stopped the bleeding but i did not continue on that particular area. 
One toe is black completely, no feeling. I was wondering if i should have left the thread there to help it fall, as i don't know how to remove it ( if necessary).
I put Polysporin all over her feet , bandage her and put her in a small cage. Pigeon eat seeds and drinks water and poops looks very good.

Below are pics. I may not be able to check your replies after work since my comp. broke. I am at work now, therefore i will be able to read your advice during the day.

Thank you.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)




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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

where is you're location, perhaps there is a pigeon friendly vet near to treat him and dispense some medications.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Good of you to help this needy bird.

Here is a link on string injuries, I hope this helps.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=189574&postcount=1


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Location Ontario Mississauga.
There is no avian vet in my area ( i do not drive). The only one free of charge is in Toronto, who advised my to euthanize my pigeon with splayed leg. But i know there is a vet who is open on Saturday south of Mississauga. I will look up and make a call.
Meanwhile i will read the link from Skyeking.
Thanks


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Skyeking said:


> Good of you to help this needy bird.
> 
> Here is a link on string injuries, I hope this helps.
> 
> http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=189574&postcount=1


Link is not good.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Dima said:


> Link is not good.


Yes, i just noticed, have sent word to Cynthia who is well-versed on string injuries, hope she can post soon.

Perhaps it is also posted somewhere else on the forum, I'll go look.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Here is a link:

http://www.pigeonrescue.co.uk/feet.htm


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Skyeking said:


> Here is a link:
> 
> http://www.pigeonrescue.co.uk/feet.htm


Thanks. i read it. I did all the procedure of removing all the strings, so i think.
The link refers to a cream Bach Rescue Cream. Isn't polysporin good enough. Or should i order it? Do i need to give her medicine? She is healthy otherwise.

I called Creditview Animal & Bird Hospital. No vet is allowed anymore, according to the new polices and regualtions , to treat wild birds, otherwise they will loose their licence.
I got from the receptionist (she was nice) two references:
1. Mississauga Wildlife Control 905-508-9453
2. Mississauga Animal Control 905-896-5858


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

1. First number is AAA Gates Wildlife - they do not treat wildlife, only help you to capture it and may be relocate it 
2. Second # is Mississauga Animal Services, they help you to catch animal in distress or injured, but they said they do not treat them.They gave me Toronto tel #:

Toronto Wildlife : 416-631-0662. I called ...ext1 then ext 1..listen to the messages (do not bring animal without appointment and speaking to staff first)..I left message...waiting for them to call back.
By the way they are open every day fron 9 am - 6pm.

What can i do for the pigeon meanwhile. I need to buy something to treat lices. Can i keep him in the aviary in the cage when my birds are not there so the pigeon can get some sun? Will the bugs spread in the aviary if my pigeons are not around?


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Ok. Done. Called me back..they said is a STRING FOOT problem ; they do surgeries and she said they will probably have to amputate some toes; as long as the pigeon has 2 toes it will be fine for walking.
I told them i don't what them to euthanize the bird. They said they will not, but tragedy can happen that after the surgery they do not respond well to medication. She said that they will put my name down by the pigeon sheet, that when the times comes i will be called to release it. Hurayyyy!!!!!!!!!!!!
But otherwise i cannot get any feedback from them untill September. (summertime is busy).

Thank you so much.
I will drop the pigeon today ( somebody from work will drive me there).

What a day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Dima,

I have a pigeon that just has two stumps, I saw another in the market place in the same condition.

I hope the pigeon survives the anaesthetic. If you find any more with thread around their feet, someone on the Facebook group found out that Neem Oil works wonders loosening the thread.

Trees, thank you for posting the link. I am behind with everything today and have only just got back from the shops.

Cynthia


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Feefo said:


> Hi Dima,
> 
> I have a pigeon that just has two stumps, I saw another in the market place in the same condition.
> 
> ...


Why the pigeon won't survive? They should know how much to put...
One thing, they said i should not keep the pigeon in the cage, but in a box...too late..i hope it's fine and pigeon did not damaged itsself. I will be on the way to pick it up in less than 1 hr.

Thanks for the help Cynthia. It's keep in mind Neem Oil. Does that removes callous formed from the string?I have a white pigeon saved last summer with same problem (not as bad).


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

i called Toronto wildlife to find out how is the pigeon. They don't have any info,but they gave me an intake no. and told me to call back after October. i have a question about Neem oil which i purchased, how long do i keep it applied on the cut where the callous string forms?i will keep the toe bandaged with the neem oil meanwhile.i hope not all of the skin will peal off since the bad toe lost color and looks dry.


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

those feet look terrible. I've seen pigeons like that with feet like that due to string entanglements. It's awful and sad. I saw one pigeon whose foot looked like a baseball mitt.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

pirab buk said:


> those feet look terrible. I've seen pigeons like that with feet like that due to string entanglements. It's awful and sad. I saw one pigeon whose foot looked like a baseball mitt.


Were you able to catch them and help them?


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

I made several attempts to catch the injured pigoens but with no luck only tostress then out. it's sad to see.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

*catching the pigeon*

If the pigeon is in a big flock,it gets easier.Throw lots of seeds in same place,pigeons will gather over the seed spot. They are all looking down to find seeds and are focused on that.Keep an eye on the bird to want to catch. Stay close like 2 feet away from where you throw the seeds,preferably not standing,crunched or on your knees,so when you stretch you arms is quick an birds don't have time to react.Throw seeds while they eating in the same place a few times so arms movement wouldn't be scary anymore.It's good to grab the pigeon seconds after you throw the seeds when they jump on each other for the spot. Idealy is that your bird is in the middle of the crowd.You can control that it's in the middle by throwing seeds aiming at where it is. Don't be nervous.When you are calm get it.Seconds before you do it,repeat mentally your mouvement and target a few times. You may have a trial of few days until you catch it. When you never give up,be sure you will get the pigeon. Forgot to say.you can use a box, if you don't feel ok with bare hands.GoodLUCK!


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

His foot is now gangrene -like. It's sad. I still couldn't get him. I just saw a "new one" in the flock that has a leg band. he looks like a homer. I again tried getting closer to at least read his band I had jerks beep their horn at him which scares the pigeons away. Some people try to run then over.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

yes. It's sad to see and feeling helpless. But just because you're not like others,just one it makes a difference, because people who know ,understand what you stand for, and that way rule by example.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Dima said:


>


I feel sad for a long time, thinking i made the wrong decision to take the pretty chubby feral with string feet at WILDLIFE TORONTO CENTRE.

Today after i made a request about it, i got the answered: they euthanized her. Since May i rescued dozens of sting feet pigeons and never took them to WTC.

I had a long argument with the lady who said that it could not have had a quality life, because the feet string was so bad embedded in the feet that they would have had only one choice : to amputate both feet.
Bulls**t. may be they didn't take notice that i removed all the strings. All they had to do it to wait for the bad toe to fall and let the wounds heal. 

It's my fault.

I am sorry Chubby!


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Hi DIma, I am so sorry to hear this,it is very sad, but its not your fault.

I had experiences like this too when I gave pigeons to Bird caring organisations who said they will help feral pigeons. Every time they euthanised the pigeons for minor problems, and I know now it was not neccessary. I got some really awful excuses. I no longer trust those organisations, even with native birds they kill them too often.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Bella, The funny part is that i asked her that she should had told me ( as i requested) about the decision, so i would go back and take her care for her. She said that it's cruel to keep wild pigeons in captivity. She says they don't work for money, they all volunteer because they love animals.

With this sad experience , after a month for not being called back from TWC, I got the frenzy of looking for and catching string feet pigeons. 

In the memory Chubby few pics from my rescues released from the strings..at least they didn't get euthanized. 











I dreamed to do that with Chubby as i did with the others *CHUBBY , FLY FREE !!!*

http://s1257.photobucket.com/albums...yed leg Pigeon/?action=view&current=Puffy.mp4


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

I'm so sorry Dima -- Fly Free, little Chubby 

We all have regrets about birds we didn't/couldn't save, and now, with more experience, we can do better with the next ones. It's still very sad. A bird can have a good quality of life with all sorts of disabilities --many of mine do.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Dima said:


> Bella, The funny part is that i asked her that she should had told me ( as i requested) about the decision, so i would go back and take her care for her. She said that it's cruel to keep wild pigeons in captivity. She says they don't work for money, they all volunteer because they love animals.


They say anything to justify killing them for nothing, don't they! I understand these places get busy, but they could have called you back (like you asked) and gave her to you instead of killing her


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

PS. I was wondering, what do people regard as the `go-to' antibiotic for string injuries? Would it be Baytril/augmentin type combination. or `-mycin' type antibiotic?


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

Yes, I've seen poor pigeons with feet like that. it is sad. I think most rescues are so over loaded they try to salvage the ones they can save. It is tough call.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

I tell you they didn't even inspected the pigeon (i told receptionist they string were removed by me as you can see in the last pic with oily feet). From the moment she said the strings were so bad embedded into the skin, i realized first that there is no communication between the front desk department and vets, and second they didn't look to close. 
And the problem is that it's not a tough call, because they have too many pigeons. Supposedly it had to do with the quality of life pigeon would have, because according to them they had to amputate both feet.
If the person who brought the pigeon wants to care for it, then they should give the pigeon back and instruct the person what to do. Hey, we can do volunteer work from our homes too to help them out. But their policy is not to give back any wild bird ( i don't even think if she was to be rescued by them, they would have called me to release her).

It's ok..the next rescued, a few weeks after, it was a broken wing pigeon and i didn't even think to give it to them, although at that time i didn't know what they did to her, but i was suspecting..

Bella was asking about antibiotics. I heard very often about pain killers.I would assume any antibiotic that fights infection is good. Amoxicillin is best in my opinion, has broad spectrum and it's mild.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Cephalexin would be my choice for this kind of injury if it is mainly the skin involved -- if there is bone involvement I'd go to clindamycin. Augmentin/clavamox would also be good, if the infection doesn't appear too deep or too widespread.


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

I was lucky to have a caring vet who was completely honest with me in regards to when I took Craow Dum into my home over a year again that he will always have issues. He will always be handicapped and the vet wanted to make sure I was serious in making a commitment in caring for him. And I have. 
I have brought injured birds to different wildlife vets. Sadly, I do not know what has happened to them. I couldn't get any answers. Maybe there are different "laws" and "standard procedures" regarding wildlife care. I am guessing that Pigeons don't really fall into 'wildlife' nor "pets" unless you claim they are your pet.


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Pirab Buk -- you have made the most steadfast commitment to caring for a bird that anyone ever could!


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

pirab buk said:


> I was lucky to have a caring vet who was completely honest with me in regards to when I took Craow Dum into my home over a year again that he will always have issues. He will always be handicapped and the vet wanted to make sure I was serious in making a commitment in caring for him. And I have.
> I have brought injured birds to different wildlife vets. Sadly, I do not know what has happened to them. I couldn't get any answers. Maybe there are different "laws" and "standard procedures" regarding wildlife care. I am guessing that Pigeons don't really fall into 'wildlife' nor "pets" unless you claim they are your pet.


In Canada, pigeons fall under wild birds. That's why once you give the sick ones to the Wildlife Centres, they do not belong to you. If you consider a pigeons that you caught to be your pet, you cannot take it to the centres, but only to Vet. I had problems when i called vets saying i have a pigeon..They refuse you. Because under the new law Vets have to have a license for wild birds. But it works, with some vets who care, if you say he's your pet, even though they know it's not. you just give it a name and becomes a pet automatically. And according to the Toronto Wild Life Centre, it's inhumane to keep a wild bird/feral in captivity.


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

hmmm..that makes sense. Even in the USA each state has different laws regarding classifications. In Pennsylvannia it is illegal to have quaker parrots as pets. if you are caught with one the bird can be taken from on the spot and killed.They are considered agricultural pests. In Massachusetts they are perfectly legal.
Anyways, I am drifting off subject.
Here in Massachusetts we have specialized vets licensed for wildlife care too. Regular vets aren't allowed to care for "wildlife" unless they are licensed to do so.
Craow Dum was not considered wildlife since I claimed him as my pet And brought him to a specialized avian surgeon. If I brought him to a wildlife vet he mostly likely would've have euthanized mostly because he was deformed and would never be able to survive on his own in the wild.I think also that his care was really really expensive it wasn't just a matter of a small wound that would heal in a few days with palliative care.


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