# Tetracycline dose



## Pigeonpal2002

Hi folks, 

Can someone please advise on the dosage for tetracycline? I will be able to get it in powder form from an aquarium store, but to know how much to give, how often etc. It's 500mg per packet. If someone can get back to me quickly with easy instructions (I'm not good with the math), that would be appreciated greatly.

Thanks,


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## feralpigeon

Pigeonpal2002 said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> Can someone please advise on the dosage for tetracycline? I will be able to get it in powder form from an aquarium store, but to know how much to give, how often etc. It's 500mg per packet. If someone can get back to me quickly with easy instructions (I'm not good with the math), that would be appreciated greatly.
> 
> Thanks,


Brad, you can add that sachet to 16oz. of water and give as the only
source of drinking water. If you have concerns about the bird drinking in
normal quantities, then I would additionally syringe am/pm to ensure that
enough of the medicine is being delivered. If you have metronidazole 
on hand, it can be combined w/the Tetracycline family of drugs and cover
a wider range of pathogens. At an aquarium supply store it would most
likely be sold as Fishzole. Hope all goes well.

fp


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## Guest

Brad,
I hope that this doesn't involve one of your runts. I know you have a vet and strongly urge you to get the bird to the office for fecals and blood tests asap. 
Tetracycline is a big yeast producer and should be given in conjunction with Nystatin. 
Can you say why you believe the bird is ill? The same symptoms can cut across any number of illnesses.


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## Pigeonpal2002

Thanks FP and Pigeonperson, 

So, one sachet to 16oz of water is sufficient? My waterers hold 2 cups each so that would be perfect for 1 packet...but is that enough? What about the weight factor of my runts compared to a regular pigeon and dosing?

Pigeonperson, unfortunately this has to do with one of my runts, Ricky. She started showing signs of a problem on Thurs morning. Vomiting of seeds was what I first noticed. Today, there is laboured breathing, more vomiting of seeds, weakness and wobbling on her feet after flying and sleeping quite a bit. These are the exact symptoms that Henny had when she got ill. I'm nearly 100% positive that it's another respiratory infection like Henny had that turned into pneumonia. 

I already called my vet and it's the weekend, both of them are out of town and the only small animal/exotic vets at the clinic. Spoke to the receptionist however and she confirmed that under no circumstances will they dispense medication without me bringing the bird in, testing, cultures etc. I'm not about to spend another $1000.00 for them to kill this pigeon.

I am going to order some better meds on Monday from Seigals but in the meantime, I've got to try the tetracycline.


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## Maggie-NC

Brad, it breaks my heart that Ricky is sick. You know she will be in my thoughts and prayers.


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## Guest

Brad,
You can't trust that the bird will drink the required dose. Do you have a syringe? If you do, syringe 1ml or one cc down twice a day. These are pretty big birds so you should even go to 1.5 ml/cc. Also, The solution deteriorates rapidly so I suggest you prepare a solution and refrigerate it. Instead of putting into the water and leaving it, dose the bird from the refrigerator solution. 
Ricky is dehydrating rapidly so I hope you can syringe water down at regular intervals. The water is more important than food right now.
What are the instructions, to use one sachet per day in fresh drinking water?


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## Guest

Brad,
I'm recommending you use this drug from Jedds.
http://www.jedds.com/ProductDetail.asp?MainCategoryID=33&SubCategoryID=1074&ProductID=2212


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## feralpigeon

Brad, the dose I'm pulling from is the bottle of Bird Cycline tablets put out 
by Thomas Labs and most likely the formulation is based on the weight of a bird
bigger than a feral and smaller than your Runts.

The three entries in the formulary from Clinical Avian Med for Pigeons:

DOSE ROUTE INTERVAL COMMENTS
1. 220mg/kg food Drink QD(every day) 50%,2.5g per tsp

2. 0.549g/L Drink QD for Chlamydophilosis

3. 50mgTD(total dose) PO(by mouth QD Remove Grit
or topical)

I would also get wormers and Metronidazole, then you'll have your bases
covered. They drink from 5-8% of their body weight for a total in a range of 30-60ml/cc per day depending on temperatures. 

I'm sorry to hear about Ricky and am praying that she will 
respond well to your treatments. Please keep us posted, Brad.

fp


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## Pigeonpal2002

Thanks Maggie, FP and Pigeonperson, 

I have to admit Maggie, I'm a little concerned but if Ricky is as tough as her mother, she should be ok for awhile HOPEFULLY.

Thanks for the med recommendation, Pigeon Person...looks good and I will order it on Monday. This Tetracycline I bought at an aquarium place so it doesn't give instructions for dosing birds. Here is the product:

http://www.aquariumpharm.com/en_us/productCategory.asp?categoryname=Medications It's under T.C. Tetracycline.

I will try it in the water and see how that goes, the birds are pretty heavy drinkers. I will also give some by dropper as well from a refrigerated solution as you recommended.

Thanks again and thanks for the well wishes...I really hope this will make some improvement. I know it's respiratory and the symptoms are identical to what Henny displayed.


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## Whitefeather

I am so sorry to hear about Ricky, Brad. 
Will think 'good thoughts' that she makes a quick turn around.  

Please do keep us posted.

Cindy


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## Lin Hansen

Brad, I'm sorry I can't offer any good advise, but just wanted to say that I hope that whatever is wrong with Ricky turns out to be minor and that she will soon be well.

Linda


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## Pidgey

Those dosages out of Clinical Avian Medicine are not the easiest to apply as they require one make assumptions about how much the bird's taking (and keeping) in. The weight of the bird's necessary, too. For a 1 kilogram bird drinking the minimum range of water (5% of Body Weight per day), you're in the 25 milligram intake according to the instructions for the 0.549 grams/L if you assume that the grams of medicine shown are 100% medicine. The top listing just is from a different reference for a 50% powder. Anyhow, for the 0.549 grams/L, it would mean about one of those 500 milligram packets in a quart of water (32 oz.) would be the same thing as long as Ricky is still drinking 5% of his weight in water per day.

In that book, the listings are said to be for "mg/kg" unless otherwise noted. So, I was assuming that the 50 milligrams TD (Total Dose) was intended to be 50 milligrams per kilogram of bird, Total Dose for a day. Seems like Ricky and the Runts are in that range. If they were to drink more towards the 8%, they'd be getting pretty close to that 50 milligram per kilogram Total Dose at the 549 milligrams of medicine per liter of water.

If you were going to dose strictly by medicating the bird directly, you'd be looking at diluting the 500 milligram package in more like 10 milliliters of water and then giving one milliliter for a one kilogram bird per day to achieve the 50 milligram per kilogram Total Dose per day. That is probably the route that I would take.

Interestingly enough, the general "avian" reference is for 200 to 250 milligrams of medication per kilogram of bird TWICE daily, species undefined. That would mean a Total Dose for one day for a one kilogram bird to be as much as 10 times higher than the 50 mg/kg Total Dose for one day. 

Tetracyclines are inherently immunosuppressive so it's one of those things where you want to be sure and get enough to get the bug but not cause another problem with the bird. According to the lab, Henny died of an Alpha hemolytic Streptococcus sp. in the lung tissue. With that in mind, I compared the Tetracycline dosages mentioned above to the Doxycycline entries for pigeons in the same formulary. I'd say the 25 to 50 milligrams of medication per kilogram of bird per day is probably where you want to be. I just hope you don't have a resistant strain.

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon

Actually, any formulary dosing information based on adding to food or water, regardless of the medical volume you 'pull' the information from, necessitate knowing the weight of an animal and the food or water consumption at the time of medicating. This is why augmenting the water dosing by crop-syringing is frequently added to the administration of the medication in this mode. Especially in instances where there has been a change in demeanor for a bird.

Brad on second look, the Thomas Laboratories Bird Cycline product *is a general avian dosage* for their product to be combined one 250 capsule to 8oz water.

The medication Brad has is from the Aquarium supply, so the directions there
won't be helpful. I'd put it in the water and supplement as pigeonperson
suggested from the fridge, though additionally. 

I'd also order this to have on hand:

http://www.jedds.com/ProductDetail.asp?MainCategoryID=64&SubCategoryID=539&ProductID=2396

Another good product from Medpet.

fp


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## re lee

Try sulmet it may do better. Plus I used tetr, befor and only used 1 teaspoon to a gallon of water. It was from a vet supply though. Throwing up feed sound like cocsidi, or ecoli And to strong a dose of the meds will cause feed to be thrown up more. Sulmet will also help on respitory effects. Is the bird passing whole grains in its droppings? Also Might check the crop is it empying Or not.


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## mr squeaks

NOT RICKY, BRAD!! Darn! I am so sorry to hear this latest news!!

WISHING YOU ALL THE BEST WITH RICKY, BRAD!! 

With LOVE, HUGS and HEALING THOUGHTS...

Shi


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## TAWhatley

I'm sorry Ricky is feeling poorly, Brad. Looks like you've gotten all the dosage info needed, so I will just be pulling for a quick recovery for her.

Terry


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## Pigeonpal2002

Thanks everyone for the thoughts, ideas and suggestions for Ricky. Just wanted to quickly update the situation. 

This is day 4 of the tetracycline and I do believe it's working effectively. She is no longer huffing and puffing after flying, no more wobbling on her feet with weakness and no more vomiting. Her poops are not the greatest but it's probably the antibiotic. The only thing that is still there but seems to be subsiding is the wheezing, almost like a soft grunt with each breath she takes. This is another thing Henny exhibited too during her weeks of illness, the wheezing/grunting sound when breathing and even at rest.

I feel confident that the tetracycline is doing what it should and will continue it for another 3 days. Ricky has been drinking the treated water as if there is nothing added to it and drinking good amounts so I didn't feel the need to syringe any extra. I've been changing the water every 12 rather than 24 hours as well.

Thanks very much for your clear and precise info, Pidgey...I appreciated that post very much. Pigeonperson, I ordered the doxy tablets you suggested yesterday to have just in case the tetracycline doesn't work and for the next time, if there is one. FP, I have all the other meds on hand, the metro, wormers, cocci meds, but thanks for your recommendation as well. Robert, there was no crop stasis, no seeds in the poops, this was/is something respiratory for sure. I do have the sulmet and was prepared to use it if I didn't see improvement with the tetracycline though...thanks for that suggestion.

And thanks Shi, Linda, Maggie, Cindy and Terry for the well wishes for my dear Ricky, I would be ABSOLUTELY DEVASTATED if anything happened to one of my hand raised little ones, they mean the world to me.


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## Maggie-NC

Ah Brad, I have had you and Ricky on my mind and I'm happy to hear she is responding to the meds. You tell her we love her.


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## Guest

Brad,

The poor droppings are not the result of the antibiotic but rather, they are the signs of illness. The protocol for dosing antibiotics is to continue them for two days beyond the cessation of symptoms and bad droppings is a symptom. 
Respiratory infections are stubborn and vets have told me not to stop under 15 days so I feel that giving the tetracycline for only 7 days is not enough time.

I hope you can get confirmation of what I just wrote and if you do, please continue for a longer period of time and get onto the Doxy pills as soon as you receive them because the solution is not trust worthy, dose-wise.

Incidentally, Doxycycline is one of the big gun antibiotics that vets give for any bacterial infection (except anerobic bacteria for which Flagyl is given).


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## Maggie-NC

Fred, I'm glad you brought this up. I started to advise Brad to go at least 10 days but decided to let someone else weigh in.  I don't know about the 15 days but I know for hard problems our vet always says to go at least 10.


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## Guest

Maggie,
Everybody seems to have their own opinions about how long a period to go but for a respiratory infection, 7 days is definitely too short a time. For me, the clue as to how the bird is doing, is in the droppings. We don't know what kind of infection is in there and some of them are more stubborn than others so it's better to go further in days. When any of my parrots came down with respiratory infections, the vet administered once a week injections of Vibramycin for 21 days (three weeks).

The thing that concerns me the most is yeast infection so I always give Nystatin along with an antibiotic. Some believe that a probiotic is good at preventing yeast cells from budding. I don't know how efficacious that is but something should always be done to prevent secondary yeast infection when using antibiotics.


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## Maggie-NC

Fred, I also always give Nystatin with any antibiotic.


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## Guest

Maggie,
Then there are two of us and hopefully, people reading this thread will have something to think about.


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## feralpigeon

pigeonperson said:


> Brad,
> ......
> Incidentally, Doxycycline is one of the big gun antibiotics that vets give for any bacterial infection (except anerobic bacteria for which Flagyl is given).


I don't know what the stats are for how frequently they are prescribed for
anaerobic bacteria, but they both are used for anaerobes. Interestingly,
metronidazole selectively kills the anaerobic bacteria that is involved w/the
infection and not the facultative bacteria as I've read Doxy will.

Brad, I'm glad to hear that Ricky is doing better, so good to hear that you 
nipped it in the bud. I'd support the longer treatment protocol as well.

fp


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## Pigeonpal2002

Thanks PigeonPerson, FP, and Maggie again,

I truly appreciate all of your input concerning Ricky and I've considered the options mentioned. Just to further update everyone, Ricky is doing much, MUCH better and for myself, I judge wellness by behaviour, more than feces. Her poops have been off, but not overly questionable. They are formed, firm and have a greenish/yellow cast to them, just like the colour of the tetracycline water. It's even causing discolouration on the plastic of my water dish.

As of today (Thurs), Ricky is/has been extremely active, cooing, strutting, trying to attract Eggbert's attention once again and this is the most active she's been all week long. All symptoms including the wheezing/grunting with breaths are gone now.

I know there is always a concern with budding yeast colonies when giving antibiotics, but it's not guaranteed or even a likelihood. I'm going to give the 7 day course of the tetra and leave it at that and because I don't want to further expose her to the possibility of developing a yeast infection from long(er) term use of the drug. Ricky has been coddled all her 3 years and this is the first antibiotic she's ever been on. 

She will be getting lots of ACV and probiotics once the meds are finished. I feel that either she had a low grade infection that was easily curable OR I nipped it in the bud very quickly and it didn't have a chance to get a firm hold on her.

Thanks again for all the help, advice and support for my sweet Ricky. 

P.S. Still waiting for the doxy but I will have it on hand if needed down the road.


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## feralpigeon

Brad, thanks for keeping us updated and glad to hear that Ricky is doing
so much better.

fp


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## re lee

oxine A H will help respirtory Out very well .


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## Pigeonpal2002

Hello everyone, 

I just wanted to give another update to those who were worried and/or interested in Ricky's wellbeing.

Ricky is doing just fine now, thankfully. A few days after I stopped the tetracycline, her droppings cleared up completely. Since then, I've been giving her lots of probiotics with garlic & ACV. I'd never actually used the two together in the water before, but the combo seems to be working just fine. The acidity of the ACV is a beneficial medium for the probiotics so I figured this would work well. I got a surprise on Sunday night just past when Ricky laid an egg. I know that the tetracycline interferes with calcium absorption and I pulled her grit during this time as well, but she still laid an egg! I take this as another sign that she's doing well.

I received my doxy from Medpet in the mail today, and I can't believe how cheap it was. 100 caplets for $8.95 + tax an shipping came to just under $20. The tetra I bought was more than this and not as much and not as potent of a drug.

Well, that's it, I'm prepared for the future and in case there is another respiratory problem or a reoccurence of one in my mini flock.

Thanks again guys and gals,


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## Whitefeather

Thanks for the update Brad.  

I'm so glad to hear Ricky is doing well again.  

Cindy


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## Maggie-NC

Good news, Brad and thank you for letting us know.


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## Lin Hansen

Brad,

Wonderful news! Glad Ricky is doing well!

Thanks for updating us.

Linda


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## mr squeaks

Ok, I'm relaxing better now, Brad!!

THANK YOU SO MUCH for the great update!

And, please give those lovable Runts of yours HUGS and SCRITCHES from Squeaks and me (but ESPECIALLY ME! ) Squeaks wants HIS hugs and scritches NOW since he's back in mate mode, so he says that your Runts are on their own!  

Shi


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## feralpigeon

Brad, I'm glad that you were on-the-job so to speak for Ricky and nipped 
this health issue in the bud. We have you to thank that Ricky is still with
us and things didn't go south. Thanks for your ever vigilant eye and 
firm grasp on the health issues. 

As time permits, I'd love to see more pics, you know there are just never enough.  

fp


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## Pigeonpal2002

Thanks Cindy, Maggie, Linda, Shi and FP 

I'm rather impressed by Ricky's rebound to good heath this time, truly it's a sign of vigilance somewhat. I am grateful that I've learned so much over the years and have become able to interpret things going on with my birds using my own insight and knowledge base.

I used to freak out over every little thing in the past; worry and obsess about thing that I've learned to ignore now. THANKFULLY, this time, I was able to handle things mostly by myself. I really don't think I could/would have been able to deal with another death or downwards spiral with one of my birds in the hands of a 'supposed' veterinarian. 

I've been pumping my birds with small but daily volumes of probiotics with added garlic and this seems to be working wonderfully at the moment. Both my hens are nesting and on eggs right now and ALL 3 birds are moulting heavily right now. 

I'm/I've cut down on the ACV, vitamins and oils and am concentrating on the probos with garlic since my birds are both breeding & moulting.

FP; thanks for all your help and recommendations. As far as future pictures of my pigeons, I'll post some when time permits and photo ops are good!


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