# milky factor



## lew7457

How do you get the milky factor started and does only the cock carry this factor? Is the powdered factor a result of the milky factor?


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## jbangelfish

*You can't create it*

The gene has to come from a bird that has it. This is where powder blue and powder silver fantails come from, also lavender lahores have milky factor.

Powder is not a separate gene, just the name given to some colors that have the milky factor.

I don't remember if it is sex linked or not but I don't think so. I can check and let you know if someone doesn't show up who knows this off the top of their head.

Bill


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## bluecheck

Bill is correct and no, it's not sex-linked. It's an autosomal recessive factor. (Both cocks and hens can carry in either a a heterozygous or homozygous state.)


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## lew7457

how does it get into the bird to start with. What causes the milky factor gene?


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## jbangelfish

*It's a mutation*

Just like ash red or bronze or just about anything that isn't a blue bar.

You can't make these things happen. They just occur spontaneously, often as a result of inbreeding. If we knew how to make these things happen, that would sure make it easier but it doesn't work that way.

If you want Milky, you need to find a bird that has it and breed it into your birds. It's a simple recessive genetic mutation and has been bred into many breeds of pigeons. I have no idea where it began but the oldest breed of pigeons that I know of to have it is the Lahore. Maybe it started with them.

Galician highfliers are an old breed and may have it but I'm not sure. I've seen it in fantails and indian fans too.

What breed are you trying to find this gene in? Maybe it hasn't been bred into them yet.

Bill


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## bluecheck

lew7457 said:


> how does it get into the bird to start with. What causes the milky factor gene?


Thought you'd never ask 

It's a mutation. Well, whoop de do, right? What's that? Basically, it's a change in the information carried by the DNA. It can be a minor change or it can be a major change. In some cases, it can be lethal. In some, it seems to make not much of a difference. In others, it may make the organism stand out or blend more into its background, etc., and it can be selected for or against by predators, environmental factors and so on.

Milky is a mutation that causes the normal bird (what we call a blue bar) to appear as if it were totally dipped into milk and had a milky haze over it. It was recognized as something unique by Dr. Willard Hollander when he was a young man back in the early 1930's. He found a milky feral with a bad leg that apparently belonged to one of the kids in the neighborhood. He bought it and tested it and realized it was something special. He was never able to ascertain if the bird in question has any fantail ancestry. Anyway, it appears that this mutation (change in the DNA) happened quite a while back, most likely in the middle east since most of the breeds that really show milky seem to have originated there - fantails, Lahores, mookees, etc. Can it happen again today? Sure, but if it happened we likely wouldn't notice it because it's a recessive mutation and cuold be carried along for years without appearing in a homozygous condition (a bird with two sides of its DNA carrying the change.)

Milky only shows up when the bird carrying it has both sides of its DNA with the information for milky on it (that's why it's called a recessive mutation). Some changes can show when only one side of the DNA has it (that's a dominant mutation). BTW - that dominant/recessive stuff means that it's dominant to the wild-type color or recessive to the wild-type color.

So if a bird has only one side (is heterozygous for milky) it will look just like any normal wild-type pigeon. That means the mutation may be carried along for years and years in a flock and never show itself. However, should two birds each carrying the mutation get together and mate, then some of the babies will show it. If a bird that is carrying two copies of the mutation (one on each side of its DNA) should mate with another the same, then ALL the babies will be showing milky. That's why you can pair "powdered" fantail to "powdered" fantail and get nothing but milky babies (powdered babies) out of the mating.

If you want to add milky to your breed, it's fairly simple - though it might take some time to get back to whatever your breed look is after a cross. Just cross in one milky. Keep the babies and breed them one to another and you will get some milkies, take those and go back to your breed, keep the next babies and do it again, and so on.

Enjoy 
Frank Mosca


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## lew7457

That makes sense. But what would happen if you bred ablack to a milky. Would the second generation throw powder blacks. I have the gene already and I would like to see what would happen. I would like to try for powder blacks or gray's. I have two different breeds that carry it, would like to refrain from naming them at this time until I see if I can do this. What I am thinking is breeding a powder blue to a black then breeding back those offspring back to the power blue. Does it matter which sex carries the gene to start with.


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## jbangelfish

*Nope, sex not a factor*



lew7457 said:


> That makes sense. But what would happen if you bred ablack to a milky. Would the second generation throw powder blacks. I have the gene already and I would like to see what would happen. I would like to try for powder blacks or gray's. I have two different breeds that carry it, would like to refrain from naming them at this time until I see if I can do this. What I am thinking is breeding a powder blue to a black then breeding back those offspring back to the power blue. Does it matter which sex carries the gene to start with.


Your formula works. You will make powder black in the second generation. Any and all birds from powder blue will carry the milky gene.

I read somewhere that the lavender Lahore is milky black but I don't know if this is true or not. Most lavenders come from ash red. Frank is sure to know the answer to this.

Bill


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## bluecheck

It makes no difference which parent carries milky to start with. Spread (black) plus milky = Lavender like the Lahore, a sort of solid silver color.


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## lew7457

Thanks guys thats what I wasa wondering. Will let you know how it goes. 
what kind of interesting projects do you have going. You really seem to know what you're during.


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## jbangelfish

*Too many*

I'm bringing somewhat rare colors and genetics into fireball rollers. I'm not the first to do this by any means. I now have the pencil gene, reduced, indigo and almond (which I had before) and am trying to work them into an old flock of fireballs that have already had a pretty good infusion of other genetics. I keep them as pure as I can but am not afraid to add new things.

I am very interested in mosaics and would love to figure them out. I plan to make some before I'm finished. I'd love to do this on my own but I may have to infuse some that have the genes already.

Frank is well ahead of me in his knowledge of genetics but he knows too much to think like I do. I think outside the box because I'm not sure what belongs in it in the first place.

Bill


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## lew7457

Talked to a friend of mine last night that has the same breeds that I have. Told him what I was thinking, and he said years ago there was a guy he knew that had done this but he past away and the project went with him. My friend really isn't into genetics. but he thinks I could due it. I would like to also introduce opal in the color of the one breed Ihave. I think it would look cool.


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## jbangelfish

*That's one that I forgot*

I have some opals too. They were originally thought to be recessive opal (by the guys who I got them from) but it seems that they are dominant opal. Dominant opal is a very pretty gene but it does produce lethal genes in the homozygous state. Recessive opal does not have this problem but is harder to come by. Almond is another that has problems and makes some eye deformities, more of a sub lethal. These genes are best to be managed with care not to produce homozygous birds.

Good luck with your project, there is absolutely no reason why you can't make it work. You just need the gene. I don't know how many generations it takes to bring in something from another breed before having your original breed up to par. I've never tried it but this is how most colors have made their way into the individual breeds. It seems to be a very achievable goal.

I did this years ago with English Budgies and brought the spangle gene into them from American types (sort of a misnomer since they are from Australia). Anyway, by the second and third generation, they were very good quality English budgies. 



Bill


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## lew7457

What colors are used to get these colors. to be honest with you i'm trying to do this with the chinese owl. With the milky black. Now with doing that I would like to try the Almond factor in them also. Lew


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## bluecheck

Why? I know there was almond in the Chinese Owls not too long ago. I remember seeing some at Bill Hawkinson's house before he died. There are probably still some floating around out there. It'd be a heck of a lot easier to just get one and add it to your family than to bring it in from someplace else. Because if you want "classical" almond, you're also going to need, kite bronze, recessive red, and a few other things.

As for almond - here: http://www.angelfire.com/ga3/pigeongenetics/ALMONDALLELES.html

Frank


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## lew7457

Yeah after talking to a frien of mine he say's they have been around for awhile. I just don't remember seeing any of them. Thanks frank lew


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