# My fantail laid 3 eggs



## Iamgr8 (Feb 29, 2016)

I bought two Indian fantails 2 weeks ago. They both look exactly same in appearance. Both look like female pigeons but they kissed and mated before laying eggs. I don't know which pigeon laid eggs as both look twins. There are 3 eggs in nestbox. Usually pigeons lay 2 eggs at a time. Both pigeons sit on eggs to incubate. I am confused now.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You probably have 2 females.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Yeah... Both of them are females...


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## Kevin Stanly (Nov 20, 2015)

*Fantail Three Eggs :: Satinette cross old dutch capuchine*

Hey, that's a pretty wonder, normally pigeons lay only two eggs, so I am damn sure, you have bough two pigeons, that's y both are sitting on each of their eggs, am sure you can find one more egg in the coming days.you took the wrong pair from shop.

I have one satinette white color and old dutch capuchine which have mated and laid two eggs, capuchine is female, now I am confused what breed would come out, would it be 'mutts', has any one in the group experienced this before.pls post some pics in such cases of new born babies.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Kevin Stanly said:


> Hey, that's a pretty wonder, normally pigeons lay only two eggs, so I am damn sure, you have bough two pigeons, that's y both are sitting on each of their eggs, am sure you can find one more egg in the coming days.you took the wrong pair from shop.
> 
> I have one satinette white color and old dutch capuchine which have mated and laid two eggs, capuchine is female, now I am confused what breed would come out, would it be 'mutts', has any one in the group experienced this before.pls post some pics in such cases of new born babies.



Even with a male and female, both will sit on the eggs. 
With your pair, you could get anything. They could have some of the parents characteristics, or none of them. Probably will have none.


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## CAErickson (Apr 20, 2015)

I pulled three eggs out from one of my HighFlyer pairs before I replaced them with two from a fantail pair to foster. Candled all three and they were fertile.


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## Whytpigeon (Sep 14, 2015)

Iamgr8 said:


> I bought two Indian fantails 2 weeks ago. They both look exactly same in appearance. Both look like female pigeons but they kissed and mated before laying eggs. I don't know which pigeon laid eggs as both look twins. There are 3 eggs in nestbox. Usually pigeons lay 2 eggs at a time. Both pigeons sit on eggs to incubate. I am confused now.


It is not unheard of for a pigeon to lay three. But. Not usual as you already know. So either you have two hens or the hen of the pair laid three eggs, or if there are other hens in the same loft single hens will lay in others nests. if the birds are alone without other birds in there and they end up fertile then You have youre answer. If they are not fertile then it looks more like two hens., but still not 100%.


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## Iamgr8 (Feb 29, 2016)

Whytpigeon said:


> It is not unheard of for a pigeon to lay three. But. Not usual as you already know. So either you have two hens or the hen of the pair laid three eggs, or if there are other hens in the same loft single hens will lay in others nests. if the birds are alone without other birds in there and they end up fertile then You have youre answer. If they are not fertile then it looks more like two hens., but still not 100%.


They both were sitting on 3 EGGS for 25 days! I candled the eggs to see if they were fertile. NO. 

They both coo, both kiss each other, Both feed each other. How can both be hens?


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## Whytpigeon (Sep 14, 2015)

Iamgr8 said:


> They both were sitting on 3 EGGS for 25 days! I candled the eggs to see if they were fertile. No,


Sounds like two hens. IMO. they can make great foster pairs to hatch others eggs. If you time it right. They can be hens because hens will pair up. Love the one you're with so to speak. No one knows why.


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## Iamgr8 (Feb 29, 2016)

Whytpigeon said:


> Sounds like two hens. IMO. they can make great foster pairs to hatch others eggs. If you time it right. They can be hens because hens will pair up. Love the one you're with so to speak. No one knows why.


Is it possible that due to their giant tails they couldn't mate properly?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes it is possible. Sometimes people do have to trim the tails some in order to breed them. Don't know if this is the case here or not.


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## Whytpigeon (Sep 14, 2015)

Iamgr8 said:


> Is it possible that due to their giant tails they couldn't mate properly?



The cock bird's sperm not reaching the egg can happen to any breed and the tail IMO is not a big deal, more reasons are heavy feathering around their cloaca. If you are talking of fantails they have a split in their tails that allows the two contact. Because of the three eggs and if they incubated them together at the same time then you probably have two hens that have paired up. It is not unusual.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Whytpigeon said:


> The cock bird's sperm not reaching the egg can happen to any breed and the tail IMO is not a big deal, more reasons are heavy feathering around their cloaca. If you are talking of fantails they have a split in their tails that allows the two contact. Because of the three eggs and if they incubated them together at the same time then you probably have two hens that have paired up. It is not unusual.


 There have been breeders of fantails come on here that did have to trim the tails some for them to be able to breed. They do know what they are talking about as they breed these birds. I would really trust their opinion more.


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## Whytpigeon (Sep 14, 2015)

Jay3 said:


> There have been breeders of fantails come on here that did have to trim the tails some for them to be able to breed. They do know what they are talking about as they breed these birds. I would really trust their opinion more.


Thanks for confidence. 
I have bred fantails, American and Indian. And also learned from breeders, which is what I am sharing. If you do not understand something , that does not mean it is wrong. Yes some tails have extra number of feathers and makes it so the split is harder to find. The feather trimming is around the cloaca or vent .one needs to be very careful if you just tell someone to trim tail feathers, there is a blood vein in them. People who breed and show do want a higher fertility percentage and do all kinds of things that are not necessarily needed for the average fantail pet keeper, most fantails have no problems filling eggs and hatching young.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Whytpigeon said:


> Thanks for confidence.
> I have bred fantails, American and Indian. And also learned from breeders, which is what I am sharing. If you do not understand something , that does not mean it is wrong. Yes some tails have extra number of feathers and makes it so the split is harder to find. The feather trimming is around the cloaca or vent .one needs to be very careful if you just tell someone to trim tail feathers, there is a blood vein in them. People who breed and show do want a higher fertility percentage and do all kinds of things that are not necessarily needed for the average fantail pet keeper, most fantails have no problems filling eggs and hatching young.



Your welcome, and thanks for yours.
I didn't tell anyone to trim feathers. I simply said that some do. They asked a question, and I answered them. Not a question of not understanding at all. What I do understand is that there are many opinions, but you often don't seem to like that. You don't trim..............some do. Breeders have come on here who have had to. 
Most may not have problems, but some do. And the trimming is sometimes on the tail. 

Interesting links on the subject:

http://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/Pigeons/BRKFans.html

https://books.google.com/books?id=g...Ac#v=onepage&q=fantail pigeons mating&f=false
Page 31


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## Iamgr8 (Feb 29, 2016)

Again they laid 3 eggs. I am now pretty sure that they both are hens because yesterday I saw one egg in the morning. I bought two eggs from pigeon shop and put them in nest. I marked the egg she laid in the morning. She sat on 3 eggs. By evening there were 4 eggs in the nest. A pigeon can't lay 2 eggs on same day. So the other pigeon just laid her egg. 

I threw off one of their eggs. They are now sitting on 3 eggs. One is their own egg, other two are foster eggs).


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## Whytpigeon (Sep 14, 2015)

Iamgr8 said:


> Again they laid 3 eggs. I am now pretty sure that they both are hens because yesterday I saw one egg in the morning. I bought two eggs from pigeon shop and put them in nest. I marked the egg she laid in the morning. She sat on 3 eggs. By evening there were 4 eggs in the nest. A pigeon can't lay 2 eggs on same day. So the other pigeon just laid her egg.
> 
> I threw off one of their eggs. They are now sitting on 3 eggs. One is their own egg, other two are foster eggs).


There ya go! Great detective work..lol.. I think just the two foster eggs are enough for them to incubate as they don't need the third in there. 

Sorry to repeat myself regardless of the,links. I have had no problems with my true pairs mating, fertilizing , incubating and raising young. People who have expensive show birds do and can go over board . Plus they are experienced if they decide to cut actual tail feathers, I don't recommend novices do it or necessary . 
I hope these hens do a good job raising these if they are fertile! Let us know!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

These people know what they are doing. But because you do not believe as they do, then they are going over board? Could be they are right and you are wrong. Just because you haven't had the problem with your birds, does not mean that it is not sometimes necessary.


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## Megamind (Apr 23, 2011)

It really depends on the birds. Garden fantails and indian fantails rarely have to get trimmed, but real english fantails in good quality tends to need trimming if you want to get fertile eggs. Sometimes just trim around the vent, sometimes cut the tail.

Sure they can still lay fertile eggs without trimming, but i have found it better to trim all birds who are in the ''hard to mate'' body type. Because every time they lay infertile eggs and have to get them tossed it´s just extra strain on the females.

I did get some eggs before i trimmed this year and all of them were infertile, other than my ''bad'' blue bar pair. 
As far as my knowledge goes some pairs can mate no problems and for some pairs trimming makes the difference betwen 0% fertile eggs and 100% fertile.

I probably trimmed pairs who didn´t need it, I didn´t trim ones i deemed fine and they are laying fertile, But i also let a pair who laid all fertile eggs last summer not get trimmed this year and now they got 2 infertile eggs.
So seriously, all you need to do is let them lay eggs. Are they fertile? No need to trim. Are they infertile? Start Trimming. 
It´s just a matter of the birds themselves.

But of course if it´s two females this person got, and there is no males around, trimming will not make any difference.


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## Whytpigeon (Sep 14, 2015)

It is poor advice to tell a novice to cut tail feathers. It is not that I don't believe in it. Which is ridiculous. really for someone who has never bred purebred fantails you sure are obstinate, I really do not understand that. Iam at a loss.

I have bred fantails, most if not all have no problems. Most pets kept by non show people and just as a hobbie ,there is nothing to worry about and no reason to make your birds look terrible because professional breeders go to great lengths to up fertility , even if they don't know the pair needs it. Telling a novice to cut their pigeon's tails is irresponsible. Trimming around the vent can help with contact. Iam not sure why my own advice is taken hostily , except that it is counter to what someone else posted. Iam not sure of the reason why my advice and learnings are shot down by the same person. Iam thinking it's not me.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Whytpigeon said:


> *It is poor advice to tell a novice to cut tail feathers.* It is not that I don't believe in it. Which is ridiculous. really for someone who has never bred purebred fantails you sure are obstinate, I really do not understand that. Iam at a loss.
> 
> Not being obstinate at all. And you are putting words in my mouth. I never told anybody to trim tail feathers. I said that I thought they had 2 females. They asked if fantails sometimes need to be trimmed. I answered that yes, sometimes they do, but that I didn't know that was the case here. Many have come on here off and on and said so. You came in and said that was incorrect. Well it isn't incorrect, so I posted a couple of links on the subject. You still argued the point. All I did was to show evidence of what I had said.
> 
> ...




I'm sure there are arguments on both sides, but you seem to be the one who is getting defensive.


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## wyllm (Nov 24, 2012)

Iamgr8 said:


> They both were sitting on 3 EGGS for 25 days! I candled the eggs to see if they were fertile. NO.
> 
> They both coo, both kiss each other, Both feed each other. How can both be hens?


Iamgr8, do you know how to sex birds using a wine cork?


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## Rhysbrown (Jul 16, 2019)

Hi could anyone help me with sex of my fantails I’ve had them about 2 months but I don’t know the sex of them they are fantails


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## Ladygrey (Dec 10, 2016)

Rhysbrown said:


> Hi could anyone help me with sex of my fantails I’ve had them about 2 months but I don’t know the sex of them they are fantails


You would open your own new thread for advice on this. This thread is from 2016. But I’ll just say, there is no telling what sex they are, only guesses. To be sure of the sex one of them or both has to lay eggs, if only one does and the eggs end up fertile and they are the only two, then the other is a male.


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