# New Muski pair with squab



## Ananth_Tvli (Jun 26, 2014)

I bought a pair of black Muskis with a 20 day old squab. I kept it locked in a box in my loft for around 3 hours and then opened it. The birds flew around, seemed to like it generally, the cock was full of courtship but they seemed not to take notice of the squab. It never saw them feeding it. The cock was trying to occupy a box which I opened it for him, then later transferred the squab to that box. Later it came out and never went back (or probably it wasn't allowed to occupy it by the other birds). At dusk I caught them box and locked them in a box and placed the squab inside but neither did they feed nor comfort it. Some time later I took out the squab, force fed it pearl millet, dried corn and water. It's droppings are solid and looks healthy. I returned the squab to the box with its parents. Will it be abandoned by the parents? If yes I am left with the only option of hand feeding it till it can start pecking on its own. Should I feed it pearl millet + foxtail millet + wheat + corn (all crushed), then water, may be a little grit (powdered red brick)? Should i buy/use a new syringe for this? The chick wouldn't open its mouth. Help plz


----------



## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Hey there!
Congrats on your new pigeons.
Parents might not feed the squab because of the changed location. A 20 day squab needs solid food means grains. But it might take a lot of effort to feed grains. So feed him green peas (mattar) and few yellow corn pieces that have been frozen,thawed and drained under hot water. You can feed 40-50 peas+5-7 corn+some grain mix that have been soaked for 2 hours in one go. Feed the squab twice a day. Also add enzymes and some vitamins and mineral supplements to his diet with a gap of 2 days.
Before handfeeding when he's hungry,take grain mix in your hands and try to peck at them in order to teach and encourage him to pick seeds on his own to wean him as fast he can. Leave some seeds in his box so he can get familiar with grains and try to pick them. Don't leave him unguarded with other pigeons in loft. They might hurt him.


----------



## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

We would love to see pics of your new birds.
For handfeeding,take the bird in your lap. Open his beak and insert one/two peas at a time in the back of his throat. Let go of his beak and let him swallow. Repeat the process untill he gets his fill.


----------



## ThePigeonGene (May 30, 2014)

Ananth_Tvli said:


> I bought a pair of black Muskis with a 20 day old squab. I kept it locked in a box in my loft for around 3 hours and then opened it. The birds flew around, seemed to like it generally, the cock was full of courtship but they seemed not to take notice of the squab. It never saw them feeding it. The cock was trying to occupy a box which I opened it for him, then later transferred the squab to that box. Later it came out and never went back (or probably it wasn't allowed to occupy it by the other birds). At dusk I caught them box and locked them in a box and placed the squab inside but neither did they feed nor comfort it. Some time later I took out the squab, force fed it pearl millet, dried corn and water. It's droppings are solid and looks healthy. I returned the squab to the box with its parents. Will it be abandoned by the parents? If yes I am left with the only option of hand feeding it till it can start pecking on its own. Should I feed it pearl millet + foxtail millet + wheat + corn (all crushed), then water, may be a little grit (powdered red brick)? Should i buy/use a new syringe for this? The chick wouldn't open its mouth. Help plz


at 20 days the parents will be looking for a new nest for their second clutch. The cock is supposed to still feed the baby pigeon but moving them might have disrupted that. I would have left them locked up with the kid for longer than 3 hours. At least two days so they still know the kid is with them.

At this point I guess their system reset and they think the baby doesn't need them anymore. You will prob have to hand feed till he is weaned

The baby pigeon will not open his mouth for food. Only gaping birds like robins etc do that.

Also you should always quarantine all new birds before mixing them with your loft. Even if you do not have a completely different set up, you can leave them in a modified box like you have a pair in. Now whatever either group is carrying, everyone might get it. THe 20 day old baby is especially vulnerable from anything your racers might have been carrying. Also keep en eye out and make sure none of the adult birds attack him.

I don't particularly like your breeder either..........is he the same one who sold you the racers??

I wouldn't give someone a pair with a 20 day old baby.....And maybe your breeds of racers are different in India, but over here racers don't ever have feathers on their feet - so I would assume the one you posted a pic of earlier is not a racer but a mix :/


----------



## Ananth_Tvli (Jun 26, 2014)

Thanks Jass, will try to get the pics tomorrow. 

As regarding the feeding did you mean that the green peas also have to thawed and drained under hot water? And don't you think feeding 40 to 50 peas in one go is an awful amount of food? I doubt if you meant 4 to 5 peas???  And for the enzymes, vitamins and mineral supplements can you pl be more specific like naming them (like green peas, yellow corn etc.) as i don't know what these are? In fact I just started another thread wherein I've requested for info on feed, medicines, supplements etc. And is it enough if the squab is fed just twice a day?

And Jass, I'd love to see your pigeons, loft .... do try to post pics when time permits.


----------



## Ananth_Tvli (Jun 26, 2014)

Thanks again ThePigeonGene, I should have asked for your suggestions before deciding to buy the birds with a squab. No, this is not the breeder who sold the homers to me. Anyway I don't think this guy too was any different from the previous one by selling a pair with squab, in fact he assured me that the birds would continue to nurse/care for it even with a change of location. He was also pressurizing we to buy a pair of Owls but I refused as the cock wasn't eye candy enough. I will keep them quarantined from now till I am convinced that they are healthy and I will keep the squab locked. As for the birds in the picture they are not racers but looks like a cross of homer-owl and homer-shirazi. (my guess)


----------



## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Ananth_Tvli said:


> Thanks Jass, will try to get the pics tomorrow.
> 
> As regarding the feeding did you mean that the green peas also have to thawed and drained under hot water? And don't you think feeding 40 to 50 peas in one go is an awful amount of food? I doubt if you meant 4 to 5 peas???  And for the enzymes, vitamins and mineral supplements can you pl be more specific like naming them (like green peas, yellow corn etc.) as i don't know what these are? In fact I just started another thread wherein I've requested for info on feed, medicines, supplements etc. And is it enough if the squab is fed just twice a day?
> 
> And Jass, I'd love to see your pigeons, loft .... do try to post pics when time permits.


Yes 40-50 peas+few corn+some grains. Yea,one important thing alway check the crop before feeding. It must empty everytime before you feed.
Yes peas and corn need to be frozen,thawed and drained under hot water before feeding. They must be lukewarm when you feed them,neither hot nor cold.
If you wanna wean the squab fast then 2 feedings gonna do it. Feeding small amounts again and again will not help him with body rhythm and he will become dependant on you. Keep water in a swallow dish near him all the time so he can drink whenever he wants to. To teach him to drink dip his beak into water below nostrils and let him suck the water up.


----------



## ThePigeonGene (May 30, 2014)

Unfortunately people will tell you anything they think you want to hear, it it means you'll buy the bird 

You did good to turn down the italian owl if you did not like the look of him. Also never trust when they tell you 'no no its healthy' that (bad feathers/bad droppings/bad eye) is just because of stress or he was fighting...........

wouldn't be the first time someone tried to sell me a german modenas (quite common here - a show breed) telling me they are the same as my italian modenas (only known in Italy really - a flying breed) which they are not......and these are 'high quality' breeders or 'high grade' shops.................if they don't know of a breed or answer they will invent and pretend they do

Same with medicines, all shop keepers have a diagnosis and a bag of medicine to sell to you......


----------



## Ananth_Tvli (Jun 26, 2014)

Yeah, i've learnt to say NO for an answer to all their offers, even compliments and sweet talks. Here i have to mention how useful/helpful this forum and you guys have been. Lol..... your breeders inventing??? new breeds? Beginners like me can easily be taken for a ride.

Jass, i'll feed twice daily but 40 peas is gonna weigh as much as the bird. I'll post a pic of the squab tomorrow and request you to pl reconfirm. Am i wrong in saying it as a 20 day old squab? Also astonished that a 20 day old squab can drink on its own, will follow your suggestions. Thanks loads.


----------



## ThePigeonGene (May 30, 2014)

I am a beginner too in a lot of things
My expereince with pigeon breeds, names and care before I started was from markets abroad or the internet

So i did not know enough about local shows and names to know if they were right or not. People here tend to invent their own names or ways of saying things that don't match the international English speaking resources.

Like the German modena they don't call by the english international name, but by the original German name (with a funny local pronunciation) - Modenser. It took me ages to find out what this Modenser was and to confirm that it was not the same as an italian modena. Even terms for colours like Gazzi some breeders think it is the name of a breed not of a colour and will argue with you till the end of time that they are right.............

I have a bad habit of agreeing with people just to be polite and hen go home and do some research and find out they were inventing everything just so they don't look bad for not knowing 

Esp with medicines I bought more medicines and preventives in my first year owning pigeons than I will probably ever need.................but you learn from your mistakes and more on........


----------



## Ananth_Tvli (Jun 26, 2014)

Can understand that. When i visit the breeders not quite sure of knowing what i need or how to check the standards they try to act over smart and as if raising pigeons is in their genes. With time we should overcome this and be good to people who would come to us. I am appalled at the breeder from whom i bought this pair for selling it with the squab. He was boasting about his long experience and honesty.


----------



## Ananth_Tvli (Jun 26, 2014)

No luck in posting the pics today, as my laptop fails to recognize my phone when plugged (USB device not recognized) and couldn't post the pics directly from the phone either, kept getting upload failed message. Let me try again some time later. Would have loved to get your feedback on the birds and the squab. 

Last night I left the squab with the parents and this morning I saw the hen feeding it but soon they left the box and didn't seem to notice it. I caught both the cock/hen and locked them with the squab. They have to remain there locked up at least for the next 2 days as I will out of station. I hope they will take care of the squab, i don't want a dead one by the time I return, wish things will work out well. Sooner or later I won't be present in my house for a minimum of 4 days every week and don't know how I am gonna manage to raise a beautiful flock with different strains.


----------



## ThePigeonGene (May 30, 2014)

Ananth_Tvli said:


> Can understand that. When i visit the breeders not quite sure of knowing what i need or how to check the standards they try to act over smart and as if raising pigeons is in their genes. With time we should overcome this and be good to people who would come to us. I am appalled at the breeder from whom i bought this pair for selling it with the squab. He was boasting about his long experience and honesty.


Yes unfortunately their are many. You should see what excuses dog breeders give for not doing tests before breeding! They've been giving me such a head ache lately. Everyone lies and thinks you are too stupid to think for yourself - like can you imagine? A dog breeder told my friend that all her dogs are health tested because they are foreign and they have to stay in quarantine if they aren't  I mean really.............we're talking about genetic diseases here...............everyone tries to show that they know everything even if it means inventing things


----------



## ThePigeonGene (May 30, 2014)

Ananth_Tvli said:


> No luck in posting the pics today, as my laptop fails to recognize my phone when plugged (USB device not recognized) and couldn't post the pics directly from the phone either, kept getting upload failed message. Let me try again some time later. Would have loved to get your feedback on the birds and the squab.
> 
> Last night I left the squab with the parents and this morning I saw the hen feeding it but soon they left the box and didn't seem to notice it. I caught both the cock/hen and locked them with the squab. They have to remain there locked up at least for the next 2 days as I will out of station. I hope they will take care of the squab, i don't want a dead one by the time I return, wish things will work out well. Sooner or later I won't be present in my house for a minimum of 4 days every week and don't know how I am gonna manage to raise a beautiful flock with different strains.



If the hen is feeding him thats a good sign. Make sure you keep an eye on his weight

You're not going to be there at all for 4 days? How are you going to feed them and give them fresh water everyday? And for how long will this go on??


----------



## Ananth_Tvli (Jun 26, 2014)

In a hurry now, have to get going, good news is that i just saw the hen feeding the squab (feeding time now). 

Feeding/watering - my daughter will take care. My life is going to be like this from now on :-(


----------



## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Ananth_Tvli said:


> Yeah, i've learnt to say NO for an answer to all their offers, even compliments and sweet talks. Here i have to mention how useful/helpful this forum and you guys have been. Lol..... your breeders inventing??? new breeds? Beginners like me can easily be taken for a ride.
> 
> Jass, i'll feed twice daily but 40 peas is gonna weigh as much as the bird. I'll post a pic of the squab tomorrow and request you to pl reconfirm. Am i wrong in saying it as a 20 day old squab? Also astonished that a 20 day old squab can drink on its own, will follow your suggestions. Thanks loads.


Yes 20 days old will have 40 green peas in one feeding. Even more than it if you're not giving corn and some grains.
22-25 days old is the official age when squabs are separated from parents. So if your squab is 20 days old he is close to weaning. You can teach him to eat and drink by showing him how to do it.
That's cool if parents have started to feed him. Good for him.
Hope you see him thrive when you come back from your tour.


----------



## Ananth_Tvli (Jun 26, 2014)

This is the baby, does it look like a 20 day old one?


----------



## Ananth_Tvli (Jun 26, 2014)

These are the adults.


----------



## ThePigeonGene (May 30, 2014)

MOOKEEE!!!!!!!!! XD

I love mookee's!!

It might be - sometimes sizes varies depending on nutrition - personally I would have guessed it at being around 14 days old...

Someone made a very watery poop in that box - was it the baby?

I would definitely put in a nest bowl with nesting material or even just a pile of nesting material (as long as it stays together) - so he has something to grip and his legs will stay under him properly


----------



## Ananth_Tvli (Jun 26, 2014)

I dunno who did it, probably the adults. The lil one had solid poop last night. Baby was provided a wooden nesting bowl with worn cloth. I had cleaned it and left it to dry in the sun. Glad that you liked them.


----------



## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

So CL. They look fab
Look at the little one,go into agreesive mode.

When they drink water after feeding they poop like this few times. And in hot weather pigeons, breeding pigeons specially drink more and poop more water out.


----------



## ThePigeonGene (May 30, 2014)

Ananth_Tvli said:


> I dunno who did it, probably the adults. The lil one had solid poop last night. Baby was provided a wooden nesting bowl with worn cloth. I had cleaned it and left it to dry in the sun. Glad that you liked them.


As long as the night time poops are dry you shouldn't have a problem then


----------



## Ananth_Tvli (Jun 26, 2014)

Been reading a lot about poop and its health indications, poop and its health hazards etc. Once i return today i will check if things are fine in the loft before buying more pairs. 

Learnt that the birds i own aren't pure homers (after Chuck's comments in the day 'pic of the day' and Dr.Boney's pics of his birds. I realized these are ordinary pigeons but what are they called? And how did they become 'ordinary'?


----------



## ThePigeonGene (May 30, 2014)

i wouldn't say they are ordinary, as to me ordinary means typical rock dove wild pigeon

They are just not pure homers as some people keep mix breed lofts without proper management of breeding and so they get croses. and nature being nature it tries to get the birds back to the rock dove, so the more birds cross to each other the more 'ordinary' and the less 'extreme' they look. But I think yours are prob only 1st or 2nd gen crosses.........

They are prob both homer crosses - I think chuck said one was prob a tumbler mix - doesn't mean he will tumble but he has features common to a tumbler like the feathered feet

Certainly it means you will have to be cautious if you intend to train them to home, as you do not know how much of the homer instinct they have.

Otherwise if you are just going to let them fly (eventually) it should not be a problem


----------



## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Here in India there are Shirazi homers that are used for bird wars,not racing. Some strains have feathers on legs which are undesirable. That bird does not look like Shirazi homers though.
Here we have highflyers with muffs too. So my guess is that he's homer+muffed highflyer cross.
As The Pigeon Gene said his behaviour can give us a clue about his breed. If he flies good then he's highflyer+homer cross or either a tumbler+homer or a homer+ fantail cross.


----------



## Ananth_Tvli (Jun 26, 2014)

I find it difficult to tell the breeds, so these crosses are out at present. 

Update - I returned and saw the parents nursing the squab but they are confined in a very small box of 10" x 10" x 14". They are trying their best to come out. Should I open the box and let them to free-fly inside the aviary? Will the parents still come back to the box and feed the young? They are housed in the bottom-most box of my loft.

I feel its best to hand-feed the squab as it doesn't look big enough, probably the adult parents are not feeding it enough? Or am I just imagining things?


----------



## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

Ananth bhai,if i may ask .... How much money did the breeder, ask for those Homers with foot feathers ?


----------



## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Ananth_Tvli said:


> I find it difficult to tell the breeds, so these crosses are out at present.
> 
> Update - I returned and saw the parents nursing the squab but they are confined in a very small box of 10" x 10" x 14". They are trying their best to come out. Should I open the box and let them to free-fly inside the aviary? Will the parents still come back to the box and feed the young? They are housed in the bottom-most box of my loft.
> 
> I feel its best to hand-feed the squab as it doesn't look big enough, probably the adult parents are not feeding it enough? Or am I just imagining things?


Yes let the parents out to stretch their wings and feed. Let them have sun. Offer them water if they want to bath and stuff.
When recess time is over you can put them back in the box so that they can feed the squab.

Squab is best left to be fed by parents IF they're feeding it satisfactorily. Check the squabs' crop once in morning and especially in evening after he's been fed. If the crop isn't full supplement his feed by handfeeding.


----------



## Ananth_Tvli (Jun 26, 2014)

Dr.Boney - i bought them for Rs.300 per pair. They are no where near your birds. Do you sell your YBs Dr.? Which part of Kerala do you reside in? Your birds have left me hypnotized.☺ Dr. What d'ya have to say about the price i paid to buy the birds?

Jass, i will try that today. Catching/locking them requires a big effort and lots of flutter. Afraid that it might frighten the birds that are incubating but i'll do that. I have to modify the boxes to make the boxes with doors bigger but that can happen only when none of them are sitting on eggs. Thank you.


----------



## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

300 per pair??? Means 150 bucks per pigeon. Are you sure Ananth? I mean its quiet a bargain. It definitely won't hurt my pocket. You guys are lucky in south. Here in north, lowest price will be 200 bucks for a highflyer and 450-500 bucks for a homer. And depending on color and quality bloodline they can go upto thousands fo rupees.

Fancy pigeons are all the way costly here. Few months back a guy sold an Almond Bokhara pair for a whopping 17000 rs. Yes 17000 rs.
I mean show breeds here are very costly. Even a low quality fantail will cost 500-1000bucks.
They don't win competitions+they are costly to buy so nobody is interested in them anymore. All are interested in new populars HighFlyers because you can even compete them without leaving your home and they are fairly easy to train if you have the right birds.
Dr.Boney, for how much did you buy your Lalban ghaghra pair?
And Ananth, could pls tell for how much you bought your muski pair? Oh...I so wanna compare.
Somebody from Tamil Nadu told me that a homer with race records can fetch 2500 to 100000. Yes I wrote 1 LAKH rs...


----------



## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

Ananth_Tvli said:


> Dr.Boney - i bought them for Rs.300 per pair. They are no where near your birds. Do you sell your YBs Dr.? Which part of Kerala do you reside in? Your birds have left me hypnotized.☺ Dr. What d'ya have to say about the price i paid to buy the birds?
> 
> Jass, i will try that today. Catching/locking them requires a big effort and lots of flutter. Afraid that it might frighten the birds that are incubating but i'll do that. I have to modify the boxes to make the boxes with doors bigger but that can happen only when none of them are sitting on eggs. Thank you.


Ananth bro....That price is very cheap and to be fair on the breeder,the price is worth those birds.Brother,you are actually very lucky because Tamilnadu is the mecca of pigeon racing and Racing homers are available in plenty in your state.All my parent birds comes from different places of Tamilnadu like Turticorn,Trichy,Coimbatore etc.Since you are new to pigeon hobby,you may not be aware that fanciers all across India comes to Tamilnadu to buy Homers.In Kerala we don't have much of Homer pigeon enthusiasts or people who train and fly them ,i may very well be the first of its kind here.In Kerala,people either keep Fancy breeds or Tipplers,people are crazy about tipplers here. 
Whenever you buy Homers,don't buy unbanded birds.Buy birds with racing bands in its legs.Every district in Tamilnadu has a Racing club and buy birds only from guys who take part in pigeon racing.Prices of good quality Racing Homers starts from around Rs.3000 to Rs20,000 and can even cost you Lakhs depending on its pedigree,race records,import lineage etc etc.so next time you buy homers,make sure it has a leg ring and make sure the guy is a member of a racing club.Politely Ask them to show there racing certificate,if the guy is genuine they will proudly show you their racing certificates,prizes etc


----------



## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

Jass SamOplay said:


> 3
> Dr.Boney, for how much did you buy your Lalban ghaghra pair?
> And Ananth, could pls tell for how much you bought your muski pair? Oh...I so wanna compare.
> Somebody from Tamil Nadu told me that a homer with race records can fetch 2500 to 100000. Yes I wrote 1 LAKH rs...


It was around Rs.1000-1500 per pair


----------



## Ananth_Tvli (Jun 26, 2014)

Dr Boney - thanks for all the wonderful info, yeah being a beginner i still haven't come to know the network well here, just getting to know one by one. People aren't easily parting with information. Found there is a club in Madurai (is where i spend or will spend 4 days in a week) and two clubs in Tuticorin (which is hardly 60 kms from my place). I will get in touch with them, i am eagerly trying to locate a club in our area itself but with no luck till now as they don't have any presence in the web. 

But frankly Dr., I haven't seen birds like yours with anyone I've met so far. Here as far as I understand the racing homers are called roamers and they must have the black line marking in their wings (this observation could also be wrong). All those exotic colors you have, they are lovely. 

Please pass on some genuine breeder's contact details if you have any still.


----------



## Ananth_Tvli (Jun 26, 2014)

Jass, I think it can cost Rs.30 lower per pair. I got this pair of Muskis along with the squab for Rs.1,100.00. Do you think this is justified? I tried Shiraz - a pair was around Rs.1,250 and squabs around Rs.800 - all per pair. Indian Fantails must also be around Rs.1,000 per pair. 

But racing homers are costly, starts at around Rs.2000 per pair. So far I haven't been offered homers by anyone. Yesterday a guy offered a pair of around 11/2 month old squabs @Rs.300 per pair. One of the birds had a small pimple sort of thing in its leg (it was not pox, it was hard). I decided not to buy them as I was neither very sure they were homers nor wanted to take risks with such unknown things on a pigeon though the guy assured me that it would go off. 

I want to add birds like the ones Dr.Boney has - a collection of exquisite colors and pure-bred ones but till date I haven't found the right breeder, I myself don't know what I am looking at (still can't tell a bird's breed apart from some easier ones like Indian fantail, muski, shiraz etc.... sorry no etc, only these three). I will take Dr.Boney's advise and join a club. May be I can meet someone willing to share some info and get to see different breeds/birds.

Birds are also costly here, just because what I've bought so far are very common simple birds they have come cheap. My enthusiasm is growing by the day and am always very anxious when i am away. I would love to own good racing homers, homers, tipplers & high fliers and train them but unfortunately that I wouldn't be in a position to do so is really frustrating. More so because there is no one else who can care for them in my absence like I would is also annoying


----------



## mookeeman (Dec 11, 2008)

I have 40 pairs of this breed


----------



## Ananth_Tvli (Jun 26, 2014)

40 pairs of Muskis...... that a crowd  Your birds are such a treat to watch. 

What do you do with them? Do you keep them just for the fun of it? Do you free fly them?


----------



## mookeeman (Dec 11, 2008)

There just show birds and my hobby my very expencive hobby lol i have alot of colours even pure white ones..


----------



## Ananth_Tvli (Jun 26, 2014)

The brown ones and ones with markings in the tail are really good. Can you post few pics of pure white and white with a black head if you have?


----------



## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Ananth_Tvli said:


> Jass, I think it can cost Rs.30 lower per pair. I got this pair of Muskis along with the squab for Rs.1,100.00. Do you think this is justified? I tried Shiraz - a pair was around Rs.1,250 and squabs around Rs.800 - all per pair. Indian Fantails must also be around Rs.1,000 per pair.
> (


Yes the prices are okay. Rs 30 per pair is ...wow! Its okay with show breeds if you only wanna keep for fun but..
If you wanna have homers I mean don't spend money on any bird that one has to offer even for low prices. When it comes to performance breeds like homers,highflyers,rollers etc then always buy from a reputable guy whose birds have proven themselves. Spend good money on some proven birds which you can use as your foundation pairs and then breed them.
Anyways,tipplers,tiplets and highflyers are almost the same. There is difference ofcourse but they are highflying pigeon breeds.


----------



## Ananth_Tvli (Jun 26, 2014)

Jass, its not Rs.30 per pair. I meant it can cost Rs.30 lower per pair ie Rs.270 instead of Rs.300.

And i plan to buy only fancy breeds from now. I have in mind homers, racers, high flying tipplers, pouters, fantails, kings, capuchins. I intend to buy 2 pairs of shirazs immediately. I know most of them cost a bomb but i wish to have them. Don't know if its good to have all these under one roof.


----------



## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Oh okay...! Yes 30 lower. I wasn't sure of what I read so I knew its 300 minus 30.

Yea no problem to keep many breeds together under one roof as long as you have enough space to house them comfortably


----------



## mookeeman (Dec 11, 2008)

There is no black head ones the mookee show standards are white head none below the eye and 2 white flights on each wing ammong other standards body type and condition are key as well and performance is a big one to they must shake there necks ill snap a photo of my whites today..


----------



## Ananth_Tvli (Jun 26, 2014)

Okay. Can you send me a link of sites that explain about mookee standards, features and about them. This is my first pair of muskis and i want to get to know better before shopping for more. Do post pics when time pictures. I searched the net but couldn't find any info bout them.


----------



## mookeeman (Dec 11, 2008)

mookee standards 

http://www.angelfire.com/ok/americanmookee/index.html.html

pictures of the whites 
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f5/white-mookees-74127.html


----------



## Ananth_Tvli (Jun 26, 2014)

Thanks for the links. Beautiful whites you have there. But do they lose 15 points straightaway coz they dont have head markings? I have to see more birds to understand the features in detail.


----------

