# Pigeons caged and killed.... How to deter pigeons from cage



## longlive_pigeon (Aug 17, 2012)

I will explain the situation in more details later today. But please suggest any useful tips as this can save many pigeons life. A cage has been placed in an urban park on thursday (asian time). It is not until today (Saturday) that my friend responsible for feeding that flock discovered. A janitor working in that park told her that 12 pigeons and a whole cage full of pigeons were trapped on Thursday and Friday respectively. 

The cage is placed by the government department. It will be an offence if we remove or destroy it. The only thing we can do is to deter the pigeons from being trapped or approaching the cage. How can we do We have applied water mixed with pepper and chilly sauce and sprayed it around the cage. Hope that the spicy taste can make the pigeons feel uncomfortable to deter them from being trapped....Do anyone have similar experience before and are there any measures I can take (ie anything around the cage) to avoid the birds from trapped


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

OK. Thanks for caring.

First of all....tell everyone you know who feeds there to STOP feeding there. If there is another place nearby they can put the food instead, away from the park...do that. Try to draw the pigeons away from the area of trapping.

I suppose it would be too risky to _disable_ the traps so they do not work. I know that...urine....is a deterrent for small mammals, but I do not know if it would do anything to deter Pigeons.

Also, fake predators like plastic owls or hawks, which would need to be moved every few days.

I think more would have to be done to the bait than pepper water....

I think if other members here collectively put our heads together and think of ways we have seen people deter pigeons from a location, we can come up with some more ideas.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

How is the trap? May be you can put some branches in front of the trap so pigeons don't get in.
And yes, important is that pigeons move from that area. No more food around the trap area.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Unfortunately pepper and chilly sauce won't bother the birds a bit, as they don't have the taste bud receptors to even notice it. It will be hot to mammals, but not birds. They love chilly pepper seeds.
If you simply feed them in another place, they will still go back to where they are used to being fed, and if the cage is the only place where there is seed, then it seems that they would be more likely to go into the cage. Not sure what the answer is. You can try feeding them farther and farther from the trap slowly, so that they will follow the change of place, but that will take time. And then too, they would probably just move the cage to the new location where they know birds are feeding.


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## tjc1 (Aug 22, 2012)

Possibly if you get what hunters use for attracting predators. Coyotes or fox urine. Spray it around the cage and this may keep them away because of the smell. Also a owl decoy near by will scare them away


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## longlive_pigeon (Aug 17, 2012)

Dima said:


> How is the trap? May be you can put some branches in front of the trap so pigeons don't get in.
> And yes, important is that pigeons move from that area. No more food around the trap area.


I will take some photos and show here to illustrate what the trap is like. There are some translucent plates in the entrance which can be only pushed in but not the reverse direction. So if pigeons got into the cage, since pigeons only know how to push but not pull, they cannot go out. Putting something to obstruct the way is not a feasible solution. The security guards in the park patrol frequently and clear anything that hinder the effectiveness of the cage. If we put branches to disable the cage, and the devil comes and throw away the branches, that will be futile. The devil station here all day long, but we cannot station there from morning to night.


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## longlive_pigeon (Aug 17, 2012)

Jaye said:


> OK. Thanks for caring.
> 
> First of all....tell everyone you know who feeds there to STOP feeding there.
> 
> ...


Yes we clear the bait. They are very clever to put green peas as the bait, which the pgis are most favourite of. What we are doing now is to feed the flock as full as possible. In the past, we dont feed them 100% full. Now we feed as much as they are willing to eat. Hope that when they are not hungry anymore, they will not wander into the cage.

I will try urine. 

Fake predators wont help. They will be cleared away instantly. 

We have already stopped feeding there long before the cage was placed. We have moved the feeding to a steep slope next to the park a year ago. But you know...pgis love to hang around the place where they used to be. When we conduct feeding, they go to the slope. But during other time, they love to hang in the park as there are trees, pavilions, bushes, ponds and water. So the devil put the life-taking device in their perfect habitat. 



Jay3 said:


> And then too, they would probably just move the cage to the new location where they know birds are feeding.


What we can only do at this stage is to patrol the park more frequently and closely monitor if they are moving the cage or even installing several new ones at adjacent places.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

This is terrible. You have your work cut out for you, that's for sure. Good luck with this. Please keep us updated.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

I may sound a bit paranoid. Do the authorities read what we write? 
We were talking about some Pox spreading to pigeons. Could this be the reason? Is the pox so visible that they decided to trap the pigeons?

How is Hon? Is he safe?
You stay safe too.


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## TheHawk (Jan 27, 2013)

*Trapping pigeons*

What City or State is this going on in? In Henderson/Las Vegas Nevada they were trying to pass a law that feeding pigeons would cause you to go to jail. We beat that law. So now they will issue you a $500.00 find for feeding them.

Fancy and homing pigeons are (with bands) are not allowed to be killed. So, I purchased bands and put hundreds of bands on feral pigeons.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

TheHawk said:


> What City or State is this going on in? In Henderson/Las Vegas Nevada they were trying to pass a law that feeding pigeons would cause you to go to jail. We beat that law. So now they will issue you a $500.00 find for feeding them.
> 
> Fancy and homing pigeons are (with bands) are not allowed to be killed. So, I purchased bands and put hundreds of bands on feral pigeons.


It's happening in Hong Kong.

Cool the idea of banding the feral pigeons. But i would think there are not registered bands.


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## TheHawk (Jan 27, 2013)

*Pigeon trapping*

That's a hard nut to crack. What I did in another City was put 25 lbs of pigeon food on the City Hall steps. What a mess for people trying to come to work.

By the way, your area has a collection of the most expensive Homing Pigeon in the world for racing. Ask the trappers to give you all the banded pigeons. Some of them are worth more the $5,000.00 American dollars


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

TheHawk said:


> That's a hard nut to crack. What I did in another City was put 25 lbs of pigeon food on the City Hall steps. What a mess for people trying to come to work.
> 
> By the way, your area has a collection of the most expensive Homing Pigeon in the world for racing. Ask the trappers to give you all the banded pigeons. Some of them are worth more the $5,000.00 American dollars


There are no banded pigeons. They are all ferals. And if you band them, the numbers should be registered with a club.

By the way: i liked you seed spill on the City hall steps


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## TheHawk (Jan 27, 2013)

*I'm going to assume you have a pigeon problem*

Okay, we have the same problems in Las Vegas. Another thing I am doing is, I raise Wedding Doves (Homing Pigeons) I keep a small flock. However, I take the extra birds to the Las Vegas strip and release them. They mixed with the feral birds creating a lot of White Pigeons that people enjoy looking at. To day I have released about 40. I work in the area so I see them often.

People like pretty pigeons. Why don't you guys raise White Pigeons and release them in the area so that you would get public support


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## nitamircela (Oct 28, 2008)

*bands don't protect too much*

The live poultry stores in Flushing (New York City) where people buy wonderful bird specimens to cook them, I've seen not once, superb racing pigeons with bands on their legs horribly overcrowded in their mixture with all kind of pigeon breeds. The Chinese (Flushing being the little "China town" of New York City) have exotic cuisine tastes and a cruel way of keeping the caged birds* overcrowded before cutting their neck in front of the customer. Though fish is the only kind of meat I eat, I cannot buy alive fish from their stores, their way of crashing the poor creatures head making me sick.
So the only way of protecting as little as you can, the endangered pigeons in your park** is to watch and prevent, in person, their approaching the trap. In New York the comrades brought hawks and when I lived there I did the same thing I am doing here, in the woods: I _personally_ scare the hawks. Only the law here is not to harass hawks, not pigeons. Your "harassing" pigeons will not be a law breaking. Check the exact city/town ordinance regarding right to feed, trap, kill _wildlife_. Beat the law with the law. And, Dima, yes, our readings are always read by the "third eye". Longlive, you and your friends, do a little research and find out if the trapped pigeons are not, in fact, source of some restaurants kitchens. In New York the "comrades" have a blind eye to the netters (vans with people trapping pigeons in their nets) who provide merchandise for Pennsylvania target practice, where, after days of being kept caged without food or water, pigeons are released in front of the "braves" Pennsylvania hunters who shoot them for fun. Those who die are the happiest, the remaining, weakened by hunger or young, are crashed in pieces by the children of the hunters with bats. The matriarch and patriarch of my little flock were two escapees from such a slaughter 5 years ago.
________________
* the poultry stores contain dozens and dozens of superb species of not only pigeons, but chickens, quails, bob white, ducks, geese, etc, all SUPERB.
** the trap you are describing, Longlive, is suspicious as set in a park, not city, the park being by definition a corner of "wildlife," and wildlife protected, nature


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## TheHawk (Jan 27, 2013)

*Band Racing Homers*

The reason Racing Homers are in the chicken market is because the owners don't want other flyers to have them and use the young ones to race against them. I use to buy many of my Racing Homers from the market Alive. 
You can make it work for you. Racing Homers cost from $60.00 up to and more then $5,000.00 per bird depending on the bird. 
I don't know how much the market would charge you to buy the bird alive, but you then can post the sale on craig list and make a lot of money selling them across the country to people that want them.
I wish we had a market here in Las Vegas. I would buy them all and get rich doing it. I would keep all the whites and rent out for Weddings. Think about it


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

For the traps, I still am unclear on why you cannot disable the doors without making it seem as obvious as having a branch stick out of the cage. I would think that a piece of wire or something would be very subtle.

Try the urine. Move to feces if you have to. Again I am unsure as to how avians react to markings like that, though.

Keep clearing the food. The other suggestion I would have would be to make the trap seem scary to the Pigeons by perhaps banging on it when they are near it.

I am trying to think of what prevents a flock from returning to a certain spot. What scares them sufficiently to do so ?


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## TheHawk (Jan 27, 2013)

*Feed the pigeons in a spot not controlled by government*

Pigeons will keep going to a spot that they know has food. So, locate a new spot away from the park. Pigeons come from miles around for food and then go back to rest or take care of their young.

I've done it several times. It works. If you had access to a roof top, that would be better.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

TheHawk said:


> The reason Racing Homers are in the chicken market is because the owners don't want other flyers to have them and use the young ones to race against them. I use to buy many of my Racing Homers from the market Alive.
> You can make it work for you. Racing Homers cost from $60.00 up to and more then $5,000.00 per bird depending on the bird.
> I don't know how much the market would charge you to buy the bird alive, but you then can post the sale on craig list and make a lot of money selling them across the country to people that want them.
> I wish we had a market here in Las Vegas. I would buy them all and get rich doing it. I would keep all the whites and rent out for Weddings. Think about it


You do have to be careful selling on Craigs list too, as some want the birds for other reasons than good.


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## nancybird (Jan 30, 2011)

I sure do wish you the best with this.


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## TheHawk (Jan 27, 2013)

*Craigs List*

That is true about a lot of things. But who would pay a lot of money for a pigeon and have some evil agenda for that bird(s)


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## whitetail (Apr 17, 2008)

Hi Longlive Pigeon,

My heart goes out to you and your flock, I wish I could offer some advice but I really don't know what could help.
Good luck to you and all those piggies!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

TheHawk said:


> That is true about a lot of things. But who would pay a lot of money for a pigeon and have some evil agenda for that bird(s)


Well that would depend on how much they were sold for.


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## longlive_pigeon (Aug 17, 2012)

First of all, thank you for all of your generous replies. 

Still no time for details update yet. Will try tonight. 
What most encouraging is that no anymore innocent pigeons were trapped yesterday.

This is what I saw yesterday when I patrolled the park. I spotted that some modifications have been made to the cage by someone. 
Someone made the cage like that. (the word someone is used since it is not appropriate to point out the identity in case of any legal consequence) 
I wonder who that someone is 
The straight wires are bent so that the entrance is large enough even if a pgi wanders into the cage, the exit is spacious enough for it to escape.








But I worry the devil will repair it or replace it with an intact one.

Will answer the other questions tonight.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

My God, who ever did that did such a " horrible" thing. Not so easy to bend those wires.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Love the modifications. Good job! Hope they don't catch whoever did that. LOL.


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## TheHawk (Jan 27, 2013)

Wow, the animal that entered that cage to eat the pigeons must have been pretty big to bend those buck bars.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

TheHawk said:


> Wow, the animal that entered that cage to eat the pigeons must have been pretty big to bend those buck bars.


 Huge monster pigeon trying to come out.


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## longlive_pigeon (Aug 17, 2012)

The cage has been replaced. They did it within 12 hours. I went to the park that day in the morning and noticed the cage has been modified. That someone might have done so hours earlier than me. I feel relieved. But then my friend called me in the evening....even before sunlight totally faded out, a brand new cage has been installed. The devil has been so efficient and devoted to exterminate the pigeons. HK government used to be criticized for her low efficiency and government departments shrink responsibilities from one another. But when talking about slaughtering pigeons, they are so active and eager!!! So now what someone continues to do is to urinate in front of the cage, and clear the bait as frequently as possible. The baits they put are perfect! The composition are even more diversified than the pgi seeds I am feeding. If spot a pgi trapped, someone will undoubtedly free him out. But between the gaps....My pgis colleagues and me cannot stay there all day long. Between the times that we patrol, there are some vacuum period that pgis may be caught...


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## longlive_pigeon (Aug 17, 2012)

Jaye said:


> Try the urine. Move to feces if you have to. Again I am unsure as to how avians react to markings like that, though.
> 
> Keep clearing the food. The other suggestion I would have would be to make the trap seem scary to the Pigeons by perhaps banging on it when they are near it.
> 
> I am trying to think of what prevents a flock from returning to a certain spot. What scares them sufficiently to do so ?


Urine has been applied daily. So far feces are not tried but will be used too if situation turns bad. 

Yes food will be cleared. But the problem is that we cannot stay there whole day long. There are 2 routine feeders in this site. I am not one. I only go there to assist. One is an old woman in her late 70s. She has retired. But she also has to look after her grandchildren so she can only go there 2 times a day at most. Another is a lady in her early 20s. She works as a tour guide and the working time is unstable. She goes there whenever she is free. But sometimes she has to work consecutively for days till late at night so she is not able to go everyday. I am in my university final year and studying schedule is hectic. I have 3 other flocks to cater for everyday so cannot station there morning till night. If we are there and see the pgis approaching the cage, we will bang and scare them away. This is an easy task. But when no one is watching out for them, it is highly dangerous.



I think one very effective method is to tie a cat or dog near the cage. And the pgis will fly away in terror once they see the shadow of such creature. But it is not feasible. How sarcastic.. When I am feeding my flock I hate people scaring my birds. I hate children chasing and scaring them. I hate people banging them. I hate people strolling their dogs towards the pgis....But now I have to think of ways to scare the pgis on purpose!!!


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## longlive_pigeon (Aug 17, 2012)

TheHawk said:


> Pigeons will keep going to a spot that they know has food. So, locate a new spot away from the park. Pigeons come from miles around for food and then go back to rest or take care of their young.
> 
> I've done it several times. It works. If you had access to a roof top, that would be better.


Sadly no roof top in or near this park. The pavilions in the park have inclined surface and not suitable for feeding.










We have long moved the feeding site outside the park on a steep slope. The reason is that we take advantage of the administrative divisions of the government departments. Inside the park, it is monitored by the park authority and security guards are there all day long. But outside the park, they wont bother us. It is illegal to feed outside too, but all area in HK except parks and private land is come under the Food and Envir. Hygienic Department (FEHD) and because of their labor shortage they cannot hire someone to look after us. However, we have no choices other than the slope because elsewhere is busy traffic or busy pedestrian. Feeding there will cause pgis being crushed or arouse a series of complaints.





























TheHawk said:


> That's a hard nut to crack. What I did in another City was put 25 lbs of pigeon food on the City Hall steps. What a mess for people trying to come to work.


Tricky idea, but I love it~!



Dima said:


> How is Hon? Is he safe?
> You stay safe too.


Dont worry. Hon is safe. Hon is in a different flock, not the flock where this tragedy happens.


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## longlive_pigeon (Aug 17, 2012)

By the way, this is the piece of crap news that lead to the massacre. http://hk.apple.nextmedia.com/news/art/20130123/18143430
You can read the animation version and infer what it is talking about. It is not relevant with POX. It is about how pgis menace the residents health. I will do a brief translation when I have time tonight.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

longlive_pigeon said:


> *So the flock moved in this area where the slope is?*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

longlive_pigeon said:


> By the way, this is the piece of crap news that lead to the massacre. http://hk.apple.nextmedia.com/news/art/20130123/18143430
> You can read the animation version and infer what it is talking about. It is not relevant with POX. It is about how pgis menace the residents health. I will do a brief translation when I have time tonight.


I don't know what it says, but i like the picture with the pigeons and the bench. Nice area to hang around and feed pigeons. I wish it was where i live.


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

youre doing the best you can. Just remember the security guards and government are doing it because they are paid to do it. If you were all well off you could just bribe the guards. But i know its not like that. So just keep doing what youre doing. They are beautiful. Best thing i could think of is take it to a city official. Technically pigeons arent "Wildlife". you also could always trap them yourself and move them into a more secure location...what I would do is kinda extreme...
But i would just build a loft near the park


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## TheHawk (Jan 27, 2013)

I noticed there a a lot of White's. You need to catch them yourself and raise them. Meanwhile, you could start to release them into the feral birds. People like pretty pigeons. I am doing this in Last Vegas. My whites are called Wedding Doves. No law against feeding doves.


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

TheHawk said:


> I noticed there a a lot of White's. You need to catch them yourself and raise them. Meanwhile, you could start to release them into the feral birds. People like pretty pigeons. I am doing this in Last Vegas. My whites are called Wedding Doves. No law against feeding doves.


But just remember bro he's in Hong Kong. Its not like the states over there. Pretty pigeons are still pigeons to them.


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## TheHawk (Jan 27, 2013)

I guess pigeons will always get a bad rap. I have been fighting for pigeons since 1944. And I will continue to fight for them. My question is: What are they doing with the pigeons they trap?


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

TheHawk said:


> I guess pigeons will always get a bad rap. I have been fighting for pigeons since 1944. And I will continue to fight for them. My question is: What are they doing with the pigeons they trap?


Most likely.. they either just terminate them or they become food. I doubt they are being relocated or sold to breeders.


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## Southwing (Feb 7, 2008)

You know *Hawk* you should not just release doves or pigeons into the wild just because you don’t want them or can’t take care of them. As a pet owner you need to be responsible if you are letting young hatch then take care of them maybe FIND homes for them. Maybe you should stop breeding if you have so many that you have to drop them off. Would you drop a dog in the city and expect it to survive? That’s not really something to be prude off. I not sure of your age and maybe you’re not thinking about the problem you are setting forth with all the changes in many states because of so many feral pigeons. I hope you stop and think about what your doing .


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## TheHawk (Jan 27, 2013)

*You have a point.*

No, I would not release dogs or cats into the wild. My mission is to promote love for pigeons. Many of my birds are seen at the strip in Las Vegas, NV. People love to take pictures of the White Wedding Doves. People are allowed to feed them at this time. 
I talked to the pest control people in Las Vegas and they are releasing the Wedding Doves they trap for the beauty of the area. It's working for us.
I stopped three Cities in California from killing pigeons. 
It can be done if people would voice their support for pigeons and other birds.

I've raised pigeons since 1944.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Just releasing birds that you are responsible for letting be hatched is very irresponsible. Most don't make it in the wild. Maybe you need to control their breeding?


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## TheHawk (Jan 27, 2013)

*Releasing Pigeons into the wild*

Think about this. Thousands of racing pigeons stray and return to the wild. Where do you think Feral pigeons come from? Pigeons do very well on their own. I can look at a feral bird and tell what breeds are mix in that bird. 

Many fancy pigeons that are not as smart as Homing pigeons stray to the feral birds even more. 

But, if I am dealing with viewers and not doers, then I will remove myself from this site. It takes courage to fight for pigeons.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

TheHawk said:


> Think about this. *Thousands of racing pigeons stray and return to the wild. Where do you think Feral pigeons come from?* Pigeons do very well on their own. I can look at a feral bird and tell what breeds are mix in that bird.
> 
> Many fancy pigeons that are not as smart as Homing pigeons stray to the feral birds even more.
> 
> But, if I am dealing with viewers and not doers, then I will remove myself from this site. It takes courage to fight for pigeons.



And many die as they are not prepared to live a feral life. Many starve to death as they don't know how to find food. If they all survived, with the number of racers that go missing, then you would see many many banded birds in the flocks you see. That is not the case. If you think they are all fine and dandy, then you are kidding yourself.


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

Ok everyone sloq their role this is not bash TheHawk thread. I was raised to respect my elders so yall need to watch it I dont like that stuff. I would believe if the man has been raosing pigeons sonce 1944, he has a good idea what he o s talking about. And the rest of you arw right. Its unfair, it sucks, its not right. But I also agree woth Hawk aboit viewers and doers, and him releasing pigeons on the vegas strip and most ferals being stray homers OR the offspring of such.
But im a young man.im 22.so maybe idk wtf im talking about. But I look at any animal and I see its personality, not just a bird who does birdy things and needs thos and that.I dont look at them as creatures in NEED of saving. People save them because they WANT to not because they NEED to. Thats real.
And honestly I find the idea of being a white dove strolling the vegas strip with my 'homies' to be quite a delightful thought. Sounds like a good time and free food.
People, please calm down and get back on topic. And PLEASE, boys will be boys, so let pigeons be pigeons.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

kingdizon said:


> *Ok everyone sloq their role this is not bash TheHawk thread. *I was raised to respect my elders so yall need to watch it I dont like that stuff. I would believe if the man has been raosing pigeons sonce 1944, he has a good idea what he o s talking about. And the rest of you arw right. Its unfair, it sucks, its not right. But I also agree woth Hawk aboit viewers and doers, and him releasing pigeons on the vegas strip and most ferals being stray homers OR the offspring of such.
> But im a young man.im 22.so maybe idk wtf im talking about. But I look at any animal and I see its personality, not just a bird who does birdy things and needs thos and that.I dont look at them as creatures in NEED of saving. People save them because they WANT to not because they NEED to. Thats real.
> And honestly I find the idea of being a white dove strolling the vegas strip with my 'homies' to be quite a delightful thought. Sounds like a good time and free food.
> People, please calm down and get back on topic. And PLEASE, boys will be boys, so let pigeons be pigeons.



No one is bashing anyone. We are giving our opinion, and are entitled to do that.


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

Jay3 said:


> No one is bashing anyone. We are giving our opinion, and are entitled to do that.


I apologize.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

With as many people as there are on here, there are going to be many different opinions, and ways of looking at things. Sharing all the different knowledge is how we all learn. Many different ways of looking at things.


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

TheHawk said:


> That's a hard nut to crack. What I did in another City was put 25 lbs of pigeon food on the City Hall steps. What a mess for people trying to come to work.
> 
> By the way, your area has a collection of the most expensive Homing Pigeon in the world for racing. Ask the trappers to give you all the banded pigeons. Some of them are worth more the $5,000.00 American dollars


*IMO -*
In a world where the majority of people still think of pigeons as "rats with wings" I don't think we need pigeon people pulling stunts like dumping feed to create a mess for other non pigeon people to have to walk around. What kind of message is this sending, not only about the pigeons, but about the people who supposedly care for them. Also, deliberately releasing any pigeons to " beautify" the ferals is just ludicrous. As stated, many will die of starvation, depredation from other animals/bop and where they may already be under attack by humans, increasing their numbers is just aggravating the situation. 

It is better to keep your birds in lofts and use fake eggs to control their populations. Any tame birds that do survive as ferals will only breed more ferals, increasing the populations, and concerns. It may be aggravating already serious population concerns, on both sides of the argument. 

The problem of pigeon control has been discussed in our forums for years, with no really good solutions being found for every situation. But I really don't think releasing more birds to the feral's world is the answer.


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## longlive_pigeon (Aug 17, 2012)

kingdizon said:


> Most likely.. they either just terminate them or they become food. I doubt they are being relocated or sold to breeders.





nitamircela said:


> The live poultry stores in Flushing (New York City) where people buy wonderful bird specimens to cook them, I've seen not once, superb racing pigeons with bands on their legs horribly overcrowded in their mixture with all kind of pigeon breeds. The Chinese (Flushing being the little "China town" of New York City) have exotic cuisine tastes and a cruel way of keeping the caged birds* overcrowded before cutting their neck in front of the customer. Longlive, you and your friends, do a little research and find out if the trapped pigeons are not, in fact, source of some restaurants kitchens.
> ** the trap you are describing, Longlive, is suspicious as set in a park, not city, the park being by definition a corner of "wildlife," and wildlife protected, nature


Thx for all of your concern again. First I must clarify this issue. I can tell you, *sadly 100% sure*, that the caught pgis *will be killed*. They call it so called ANIMAL EUTHANASIA. The detailed process is as below:

1. The Agriculture Fishery Conservation Department(AFCD) lend cages to the park authority.
2. park authority set cages and bait.
3. when the security guards patrol and notice pigeons trapped, they call 1823 government hotline.
4. hotline transfer the case to AFCD, AFCD arrange pest control companies (subcontractors) to take the pgis and deliver to Animal Management Centre of AFCD
5. Tests are performed in the Centre for H5N1 and other viruses
6. If result is positive, terminate the pgi and press release to arouse public terror
7. If result is negative, (ie not disease-carrying), also terminate the pgi in the name of population control

Pgi fate in HK are more miserable than stray cats and dogs. 
For cats and dogs, if caught and proved healthy, will be allowed to stay in the Animal Management Centre for 72 hours in case people might want to adopt before they are terminated.
http://www.info.gov.hk/gia/general/200602/08/P200602080115.htm 
But for pgis, it has been made illegal to keep pgis as pet since 2006. (even when talking about racing pgis). Pgis are black labelled as dangerous agents for transmitting Avain Flu. Before 2006, keeping below 20 pgis is legal and keeping above 20 will need a license. But since 2006, keeping pgis were prohibited. At that time, all racing pgis were either handed to the AFCD devils or released. 

So there are virtually no legal pgi breeders in HK, except those underground pgi breeders, who risk prosecution. Even if you take a sick pgi home to give him a comfortable place to die, it is also illegal. So feeding wild pgis or keeping pet pgis are illegal in this ruthless city. I am 100% sure that the pgis trapped in the cage will be PUT TO SLEEP in their wordings, absolutely not possible sold to restaurant, released or handed to breeders. 



nitamircela said:


> ** the trap you are describing, Longlive, is suspicious as set in a park, not city, the park being by definition a corner of "wildlife," and wildlife protected, nature


I have done investigation in the laws related in this field. Pigeons are defined as poultry but not wildlife in law classification. So the devils have every right to catch and kill them.


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## longlive_pigeon (Aug 17, 2012)

kingdizon said:


> youre doing the best you can. Just remember the security guards and government are doing it because they are paid to do it. If you were all well off you could just bribe the guards. But i know its not like that. So just keep doing what youre doing. They are beautiful. Best thing i could think of is take it to a city official. Technically pigeons arent "Wildlife". you also could always trap them yourself and move them into a more secure location...what I would do is kinda extreme...
> But i would just build a loft near the park


Thx. Indeed the place is already one of the safest flock in HK territory. And when this flock faces such destiny, I am really pessimistic whether they can get their well-being elsewhere. For bribe, not really bribe, but when I was feeding and the janitors are ready with their brooms to clear the seeds, I will give them HK$20 to drive them away. But not all will accept.


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## longlive_pigeon (Aug 17, 2012)

TheHawk said:


> I guess pigeons will always get a bad rap. I have been fighting for pigeons since 1944. And I will continue to fight for them. My question is: What are they doing with the pigeons they trap?


You must have been very experienced! Thx for caring for the birds for such a long history. I think I understand your suggestion to add white pgis into the flock so people will less resent the pgis because of their dazzling white look. But here in HK I dont think people will change their attitude to pgis because of their color. After all, they have been brainwashed by the government that pigeons spread deadly Avain Flu.



Southwing said:


> You know *Hawk* you should not just release doves or pigeons into the wild just because you don’t want them or can’t take care of them. As a pet owner you need to be responsible if you are letting young hatch then take care of them maybe FIND homes for them. Maybe you should stop breeding if you have so many that you have to drop them off. Would you drop a dog in the city and expect it to survive? That’s not really something to be prude off. I not sure of your age and maybe you’re not thinking about the problem you are setting forth with all the changes in many states because of so many feral pigeons. I hope you stop and think about what your doing .


I think I know what Hawk is talking about. He is thinking how to change people perception towards pgis by improving pgis image as beautiful white doves. I think it is OK as long as he keeps feeding where he releases and ensure that the released pgis have something to eat and not starve.


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## longlive_pigeon (Aug 17, 2012)

Brief Update of Yesterday Situation:

No bait added. No pgis trapped.
Fresh urine is showered at the entrance of the cage.
Besides, someone uses glue to stick the bars.
Yesterday when I tried to push the vertical bars they were not movable at all.
I inspected closely and discovered that someone has used glue to adhere the vertical bars to the main horizontal bar. 
So pigeons cannot push into the cage even if bait has been added. 
I try to interpret the motive of someone: Maybe last time someone bent the bars and it was so conspicuous and the devils quickly replaced with a new cage.
This time the cage still looks intact with all that glue.
Unless the devils closely examine the cage, they wont spot the difference. 
Hope that this can delay erecting a brand new cage for a couple of days.


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## kingdizon (Jan 14, 2013)

longlive_pigeon said:


> Brief Update of Yesterday Situation:
> 
> No bait added. No pgis trapped.
> Fresh urine is showered at the entrance of the cage.
> ...


 People are so slick now a days,pretty creative too


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Wow, very smart. Never thought about the glue. That's the best idea so far a heard.

Regarding avian flu in pigeons, it's all LIES.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8883790


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## longlive_pigeon (Aug 17, 2012)

Dima said:


> Wow, very smart. Never thought about the glue. That's the best idea so far a heard.
> 
> Regarding avian flu in pigeons, it's all LIES.
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8883790



Unfortunately, people dont easily believe scientific proof. They are already brainwashed in their mind that Pigeons = H5N1.

And yes, Hon is still in the same health state. Dolly also. Last time I mentioned that possible POX was discernible on both of his eyelids. They remain there, but without further enlargement. Besides, I have 2 babies now. One is about to fly and released. I will try releasing him today.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

longlive_pigeon said:


> Unfortunately, people dont easily believe scientific proof. They are already brainwashed in their mind that Pigeons = H5N1.
> 
> And yes, Hon is still in the same health state. Dolly also. Last time I mentioned that possible POX was discernible on both of his eyelids. They remain there, but without further enlargement. Besides, I have 2 babies now. One is about to fly and released. I will try releasing him today.


If you grew up the babies, don't just release them, do the soft release. Take them with you in a small cage wherever you go to feed the flock for about 1 week then release them


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

Someone who was trying to stop me feeding the pigeons used a women's rape alarm that is very loud and high pitched. It was effective at frightening off the pigeons for quite some time and I had to change location in order to be able to feed the pigeons again. Also a dog chasing a ball has been used for the same purpose and works for a while, but not as long as a powerful rape alarm. You could stand near the cage and every time the pigeons start to gather near the cage, set off the alarm. If you also start feeding them elsewhere as well, I think this would be a good combination.


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## longlive_pigeon (Aug 17, 2012)

In these recent few days, the cage was kept in the same condition. No bait added. The glue remains in function. No more pigeons trapped. We will keep inspecting the trap everyday.



BHenderson said:


> Someone who was trying to stop me feeding the pigeons used a women's rape alarm that is very loud and high pitched. It was effective at frightening off the pigeons for quite some time and I had to change location in order to be able to feed the pigeons again. Also a dog chasing a ball has been used for the same purpose and works for a while, but not as long as a powerful rape alarm. You could stand near the cage and every time the pigeons start to gather near the cage, set off the alarm. If you also start feeding them elsewhere as well, I think this would be a good combination.


Time does not allow us to stay there for all day. But we can consider tying a cat or a dog near the cage to scare away the pigeons. By the way, you may complain to the police that that rape alarm is too loud and irritate the quality of sleep of the near residents. You may also complain that his behavior undermines the effectiveness of the rape alarm. If the alarm is used for this purpose, people will ignore and when rape really happens, people will treat it as the usual way of scaring pigeons so no one will come to help the victim.


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## longlive_pigeon (Aug 17, 2012)

Dima said:


> If you grew up the babies, don't just release them, do the soft release. Take them with you in a small cage wherever you go to feed the flock for about 1 week then release them


Yes, I did the soft release. Actually I took him out to join the flock in the past 2 weeks during the feeding. Not in a cage but actually let him wander into the flock. I released him on Monday. Before releasing, I painted little red on his features for recognizing him. On Tuesday, he did not show up and I was worried he got lost. On Wednesday, I saw him~ Soooo relieved to see him finally back


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## BHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

Good point about the rape alarm. Just thought I would use some of their tactics against pigeon haters lol.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

longlive_pigeon said:


> Yes, I did the soft release. Actually I took him out to join the flock in the past 2 weeks during the feeding. Not in a cage but actually let him wander into the flock. I released him on Monday. Before releasing, I painted little red on his features for recognizing him. On Tuesday, he did not show up and I was worried he got lost. On Wednesday, I saw him~ Soooo relieved to see him finally back


GOOD JOB!


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

Simplest answer I can think of is to train a dog to chase the pigeons, without hurting them.

Pigeons fly off when there is too much threatening motion in their vicinity.

A small dog, maybe a terrier (need other opinions on this?) could be used in relays by several "owners."

A dog would be hard to ticket or fine, or to impose a legal penalty on. The "owner" could stand off at a distance. A dog would be hard to deter. A dog chasing the pigeons off would probably be approved of by the authorities intent on minimizing the presence of the pigeons at a certain place.

Larry


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## longlive_pigeon (Aug 17, 2012)

They have set the cage again. Janitors reported that on Wednesday over a dozen of pigeons have been trapped.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

So sad. You did your best though. You cannot help all the pigeons.
Just be careful.


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## jayinhk (Mar 17, 2013)

I just read through this thread and commend your dedication--I'm from HK too. I have a pigeon nesting on my window AC and tried everything to get it moving before I realized it had eggs, and now I'm leaving it be. Nothing I tried worked. She looked to be sleeping earlier.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

jayinhk said:


> I just read through this thread and commend your dedication--I'm from HK too. I have a pigeon nesting on my window AC and tried everything to get it moving before I realized it had eggs, and now I'm leaving it be. Nothing I tried worked. She looked to be sleeping earlier.



Thank you for caring to let the mama pigeon and daddy pigeon nest at at your window.


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## longlive_pigeon (Aug 17, 2012)

jayinhk said:


> I just read through this thread and commend your dedication--I'm from HK too. I have a pigeon nesting on my window AC and tried everything to get it moving before I realized it had eggs, and now I'm leaving it be. Nothing I tried worked. She looked to be sleeping earlier.


Thanks for letting him stay~ I am sure it will be a wonderful experience to witness the miraculous cycle of life as the eggs hatched and the baby grows.


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## jayinhk (Mar 17, 2013)

longlive_pigeon said:


> Thanks for letting him stay~ I am sure it will be a wonderful experience to witness the miraculous cycle of life as the eggs hatched and the baby grows.


I think so too  Looking forward to it!


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## longlive_pigeon (Aug 17, 2012)

Just some updates of the tragic situation...

The park management authority ceased putting bait into the cage due to our pressure. We made many complaints and the LCSD gave in, although it is still legally authorized for them to set the cage. The cage remained there and no new bit was added.

Until last Thursday, 80 pigeons were caught, tested negaitve for H7N9 viruses and were all terminated. I was told that this time not the LCSD but civilians added the bait. A woman named Mrs. Chung who exercises in the park every morning, deeply resents the birds. She bought a packet of green peas several days ago. Instead of directly placing the peas into the cage, she was so cunning that she guided the flock towards the cage, by scattering a handful of peas and pacing a few steps forwards. Then when she reached the cage she started "pouring" the peas from above as if it was like a shower of "green peas rain". The hungry pigeons were dashing into the cage without even knowing the danger. All they know is to enjoy the "green peas rain" and not to let behind others. That Mrs. Chung"s tactics were highly successful. Then she reported to the LCSD that a whole cage of pigeons have been trapped and called the people to take them away. She pretended she did not do anything and it was just pigeons marching into the cage. Actually it is unlawful for her to do so since civilians have no rights to catch birds in a park. How disgusting. And the 80 innocent pigeons were all killed on last Saturday, two days after their seizure.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

RIP innocent pigeons.
I feel for you, so much killing unnecessary to the healthy pigeons.
I admire your strength.


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## CMH1211 (Mar 10, 2013)

Man I justvread thru this thread. I stay away from threads like this. I know its ignorance but id like to believe ALL birds are safe in the wild. Unfortunately there are people in the world that believe pigeons are a nuisance. All I can say is thanks for your courage in trying to protect what you and all of us believe is an innocent creature. Its a damn shame it isnt illegal to kill harmless birds. 

Mrs chong sounds like a real beeyotch... someone should put her in the cage for a day just to feel half of what those birds feel. Lets not talk about what happens next. Rip helpless creatures


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