# feral pigeon unable to stand



## Alison S (Mar 23, 2012)

hello everyone,
I am new on here, i have in my care a young feral pigeon, it was found on plymouth hoe, taken to camarthen then south wales to me.
It has so far been seen by two vets, one wormed it and gave a coarse of antibiotics, idont know which ones and my vet is waiting on notes. she/he is approx 9-10 weeks old, she is very dark,almost black feathering, very alert and now feeding well although still very thin, she cannot hold herself on her legs, just falls sidewards, the legs are not broken and her wings work fine. has anyone here any ideas as she has now been like this since feb 20th when found, i read a bit on here about mytoxins could this be the cause?, i have a small amount of nystatin here and baytril, septrin, i am like a chemists as i take disabled and sick parrots but this is new to me.
She is a beautiful bird and i want to beable to give her a chance so any help would be appreciated, i was going to put her on a coarse of nystatin she weighs 247 grams what dose of nystatin does anyone know?
Any other ideas or suggestions please, i did not know wether to take the weight off her legs by putting her in a sling as she has not improved over these weeks when she was scrabbling around please any advice i want to get her through this


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Hi

She is underweight, at least. She may not have been able to find much to eat and little that would provide her nutritional needs healthwise.

Aside from an infection of some kind, and a dropping sample may show up a parasitic or bacterial problem, she may be lackng in some essential vitamins/minerals. This can cause a problem in young doves or pigeons. 

When you say her wings work fine, is she able to fly or just flap her wings?

May be worth giving her a liquid Calcium + Vit D3 supplement such as Calcivite.

How are her droppings looking and what food is she eating?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Have you given her any nutrition since she was on the antibitoics and worming?

The bird should be on some probiotics to maintain gut flora and good gut bacteria. A Young bird like that may be depleted in good gut bacteria because of stress and the antibiotics. It also will help to put on weight as the bird will assimilate its food better. I would also hand feed 3 or 4 times a day. Get a good pigeon seed mix too, if you aren't already. Also sunshine and fresh air is excellent for healing.

I would definitely get her on some nutrition as John suggested.

What does the birds poop look like?


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## Alison S (Mar 23, 2012)

hello skyking and john d
I should have said i am putting davinova c in her water and avro plus probiotic and giving her critical care {electrolytes etc } in harrisons recovery formula via a syringe 3x a day, i also have her under a uv lamp for d3.
John, her droppings have improved, when i got her 3 days ago it was mainly white now mainly green not sloppy normal, i put on the bottom of the cage she is in pigeon conditioner{bucktons, she can fly fine, i am letting her exercise her wings whilst holding her.
skyking, i dont know what she was fed prior to me getting her, apart from being underweight and unable to support her weight she seems fine.
There is strength in both legs, my vet checked them for reflex, no problem they just wont hold her up


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I would start hand feeding her a pigeon mix three times a day and also get her to start self feeding by leaving a bowl of seeds with her, if you haven't.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

AimeeS said:


> hello skyking and john d
> I should have said i am putting davinova c in her water and avro plus probiotic and giving her critical care {electrolytes etc } in harrisons recovery formula via a syringe 3x a day, i also have her under a uv lamp for d3.
> John, her droppings have improved, when i got her 3 days ago it was mainly white now mainly green not sloppy normal, i put on the bottom of the cage she is in pigeon conditioner{bucktons, she can fly fine, i am letting her exercise her wings whilst holding her.
> skyking, i dont know what she was fed prior to me getting her, apart from being underweight and unable to support her weight she seems fine.
> There is strength in both legs, my vet checked them for reflex, no problem they just wont hold her up


you may want to add a few pieces of kitten food kibble to her food when you feed her..she soundsl like she may be malnourished.. the cat kibble has protein for growing babies and some calcium and is easy to get usually. as an adult she will not need it though.


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## Alison S (Mar 23, 2012)

do you all think that it could be as simple as her being malnourished?, would this stop her from supporting herself as i said her legs and wings are strong, also i read something i now cannot find about rickets and dark/black feathering in pigeons.


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## pigeon-lover0 (Apr 1, 2012)

She could be malnourished. That could make her weak enough to not be able to support her weight. I recommend the hand feeding as Skyeking has said.
Wish to you the best of luck, happy Easter everyone!
Lucas


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

If she is eating fine by herself, and her poops are improving, and she can use her wings then it doesn't sound like simple malnourishment.

If the antibiotic was Baytril then that should deal with any bacterial problem that could cause leg weakness.

The calcium and vits will help her, if it's a deficiency (and also strengthen her immune system)

I have read of a kind of temporary paralysis that they can get, but don't have the reference with me here. Alternatively, could be some kind of nerve damage.

Is it possible to get a good video clip of what happens when you put her down on a carpet or other safe surface?


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## Alison S (Mar 23, 2012)

*pictures of pigeon*

sorry John can't do a video so i took a load of pictures here they are...


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## Alison S (Mar 23, 2012)

sorry, i'm going to have to go for a while, to sort out my own budgies, i'll be back on in about an hour or so.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

oh, she has a balance disorder.. what the cause is is going to be guesses.. poor birdie.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Good pics.

Different when one is right there with the bird, but this looks very strange to me. It's kinda like she is trying to walk/stand stiff legged, as on stilts, and topples over. Maybe just looks that way because she is still a leggy youngster. (I was expecting to see her legs just fold under her) 

You mentioned she has strength in the legs - can she grip a finger with her toes?

PS

Ingesting a toxic substance can cause rigidity, though I personally have only seen that with pigeons which had passed on. If it is a toxin, I'd just hope it is one that would work its way out of the system.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

That last picture looks just like the problem one of my young birds had a while ago.
He had a couple of hitches as a baby where I found him out of the nest and cold. Then he was developing ok but suddenly he lost his balance and the use of his legs and all he could do was sit with them straight out in front like that and when he tried to walk he just fell forward.
Never knew what the problem was but Dobato, a member on here at the time guided me through his care. I'll find his thread and post a link to show what treatment he had.
He gradually started to gain the use of his legs and it took a while before he could walk and fly properly but he is fine now.
The one thing I thought might have triggered whatever was wrong was he developed a lump on his beak prior to this happening and we wondered if he'd been bitten by an insect or something. This also disappeared eventually.

I'll go back and find the thread and try and post a link.



Janet


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## Alison S (Mar 23, 2012)

Thanks john and janet,
John, she can grip your finger with her toes.
Janet, it sounds very similar although mallory, falls in all directions not just with legs infront.

The strange thing is when you put her on the floor she has the strenght in both legs to push herself around on her side, a very pityful sight.

John if she has picked up poison of some kind how can i go about detox safely?

Its almost as if the problem is at her hips and my vet checked them.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi,

Dusty used to fall in all directions as well. The legs out in front was just how he came to rest but he used to push hard on his legs and then totter a few steps forwards then fall on his face but more often he went backwards in his attempts to walk.

He had use in his toes also and could grip, just suddenly developed this lack in ability to control his legs or stand.

I'm wondering if I can email the video to you if it won't upload. I really think it would help more than me trying to explain.

I'm going to find the link to the thread to remind me what we ended up doing for him.

Will post back.

Janet


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Janet - do you use Youtube? Maybe upload video and set so only people who have the link can view it?


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## Alison S (Mar 23, 2012)

Thanks Janet,
I would love to see it if you can get it to work, mallory has been like this a number of weeks now prior to coming into my care, and if yours recovered it would give me great hope, i'm no where near ready for giving in yet.
Thank you both for trying to help so much, i really do appreciate this, i'm not always able to be on here as we have a number of disabled and ill birds here. 
Just one thing you might both be interested in, i'm doing veterinary trials with avian gamma interferon for PBFD in budgies, this is a strain of ciro-virus that pigeons can get an there is no cure, i have just cleared two of budgies of this devastating disease.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

It is wonderful to have some good news about PBFD!

Janet, I was so relieved to read that you had experienced a similar condition with a pigeon of a similar age and that he recovered. I looked up the thread, it is long but well worth reading! *This is the link.*


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Aimee,

Here's the video. Just click on the picture to activate:



At this point Dusty was starting to improve.
Before this he wasn't able to stand at all and I had to support him with my hands from behind so he could try using his legs.
This was the start of his recovery when he'd actually began to be able to control his legs at all.

Vets weren't able to diagnose Dusty either so it was very much supportive care and he had other issues that we didn't know if they were related to this so it was hard to say in the end what exactly had gone wrong, but he did come right thankfully.
Obviously we don't know for sure if you pigeon has the same problem but hopefully if the symptoms are similar it gives us a starting point for treatments to try.

Janet


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Thanks you for finding that Cynthia. I'm going round in circles here and couldn't work out how to send the link!!! Hubbie reduced the video on his lap top so hopefully will work now.

Yes sadly the thread is long and so it's hard to establish at what point the problem was triggered as he didn't go off his legs immediately. If you can trawl through the early stages the main treatment was definitely based on keeping him well nourished and making sure he his crop was moving.
The meds obviously played a part. I'll let you read through when you get time and please just ask if you want any more info.

I wish you luck but definitely don't give up on him!

Janet


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## Alison S (Mar 23, 2012)

Thanks both of you, i have had a quick read will sit down later when finished all birds here and go through it step by step and then set out a plan for mallory, dont worry i will not give up, its just a feral pigeon to a lot of people, to me its a young bird who has one life ahead of her and thats worth fighting for.
I will be back later, at mo have a lot of birds to do and a lot of reading, thanks again


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Did either vet take poop samples. Was the possiblity of toxins mentioned?

Janet

Good news about your work with PBFD. I didn't know much about it so have just been reading up on it. Thanks for the info.


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## Alison S (Mar 23, 2012)

Hi janet,
My vet did not yet, i spoke to tracy earlier who had cared for mallory prior to me, i told her i have put a thread on here i hope she can add more info, be back soon


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

The cause can be just about anything, even an injury.

Time will tell if the bird is going to be normal or recover, so nutrition and supporitive care is very important. a fecal done is good to check on if he is harboring anything that needs medications.


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## TRACY AND POPS (Apr 9, 2012)

Hi everyone i am Tracy the lady who was handed Mallory from a friend who found her on Plymouth Hoe off her legs in an undercover area i am just sending this post to start with as i spent an hour earlier explaining everything about Mallory and it did not seem to come through onto the forum.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Hi and welcome, Tracy.

From what 'AimeeS' wrote, yon pigeon has had some travels in her young life.


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## TRACY AND POPS (Apr 9, 2012)

Right so that has worked this time. I took Mallory to see my vet who in the past has treated many feral pigeons for me with tremendous results. My vet was of the opinion that it was likely to be nerve damage as Mallory would not raise her legs when my vet held her and let her legs touch the examination table. My vet also confirmed she was underweight but that there were no visible injuries her legs and pelvis seemed fine no breaks. My vet gave Mallory a couple of injections one being Terramycin which is a long acting antibiotic that is apparently more affective with bacteria affecting the nervous system. My vet also gave me some of this to give Mallory a few days later. Mallory improved in that she started eating on her own she was also bending and kicking her legs and she could flap her wings with great strength. Mallory could do none of this when i was handed her. Having said that she was still unable to stand. I was reluctant to take Mallory back to the vets over the next few weeks as i thought my vet would advice euthanasia for Mallory as she was still off her legs. I did also give Mallory calcium supplements in this time. It has now been about 7 weeks and Alison posting as Aimee and i are desperate to do what we can for this little pigeon who has a remarkable will to live thankyou all for your help so far


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## TRACY AND POPS (Apr 9, 2012)

Thankyou John she certainly has! I was of the predicament that if i was going anywhere for more than a few hours Mallory had to come too as she would knock her water over or lie in her own droppings.


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## Alison S (Mar 23, 2012)

glad you found this eventually, i am still reading through the post janet talked about, i am doing this in sections as still have mallory and other birds to see too.
have you looked at this tracy?


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Tracy, welcome from me as well!

You're lucky to have an avian vet that is willing to give pigeons so much attention.
Mallory has been off her legs a long time now and so muscle weakness will also hinder her recovery somewhat.

My vet isn't avian sadly and but he did suggest my bird's problem might be nerve damage as he'd fallen from a high perch when I found him.
In this case I don't think it was. I'm sure his was more of an viral/ infection dilema.
The symptoms are similar as far as the lack of control of his legs but obviously the cause could be totally unrelated. So maybe we just need to keep our options open and try various remedies as we did in the hope we can get his motor back on track.

I apologise to Alison for the length of the thread on Dusty. A lot could be deleted and I'll try to do that later to trim it down to the relevant parts.

Janet


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## TRACY AND POPS (Apr 9, 2012)

Hi Alison/ Janet i think my replies are too long by the time i try to send them it says i am not logged in! Alison i will ring you tomorrow as i have read Janets thread. Thankyou for the welcome Janet my vet is not an avian vet but she does adore pigeons which is great news for the birds i take to her as she treats each of them as she would any private patient. I did look at the video of Dusty and i still feel that Mallory moves in a different way. When Mallory first came to me she was dragging herself along with her wings with her legs stretched rigid out backwards. She would sort of balance on her chest with her tail up vertical in the air.


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## TRACY AND POPS (Apr 9, 2012)

Alison i think maybe some blood tests are the next step forwards what do you think? I never tried a full course of antibiotics on Mallory it might be worth a try especially if something comes back abnormal in her bloods your vet would probably advise the suitable antibiotic. Did your vet take any blood for tests he may already have done so.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Tracy, I'm Cynthia. 

Alison, I'm a friend of Rob's.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

TRACY AND POPS said:


> Hi Alison/ Janet i think my replies are too long by the time i try to send them it says i am not logged in!


Hi Tracy

Do you have cookies enabled in your web browser? It needs that to remember you as you go from page to page. Also check the 'remember me' box when you next login.


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## Alison S (Mar 23, 2012)

janet,tracy,cynthia and john

i could not get a lot of the attachments on janets bird dusty or the video to work, not very computer savvy, amy set up log in for me.
Tracy, jordi is doing x ray and bloods this week, reading the thread of Janets' Mallory is very under weight even though she consumes a good amount, both recovery and conditioning pigeon mix, she does not seem to have a problem eating, its more like she is not absorbing the nutrients and not gaining weight{ like a parasitic or worm problem}, i do think there is an under lying problem that needs discovering and treating this she will start to put on condition and muscle control and hopefully gain use of her legs and balance issues.
To me and it might sound stupid, its almost like a diabetic, the muscles are striped of nutrients and are not developing properly.
hello, cynthia thanks for putting me in touch with rob


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I didn't realise I had put you in touch with Rob, he e-mailed me about the Metacam cat dosage, it must have been Mallory he was writing about. 

The meloxicam dosage for pigeons is 0.1-0.5 mg/kg q 24.


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## TRACY AND POPS (Apr 9, 2012)

Thankyou John i will try the"remember me bit" as far as cookies go i have vary basic kills on my laptop and do not know what that is. Hi Cynthia you already know me you email from time to time, a few weeks ago regarding a woodie in Plymouth! Alison that is great news about the blood tests and x rays will wait in anticipation for those results. I totally agree with you that Mallory does not have a problem with eating.June said to me on seeing Mallory for the first time that she was very hungry to which i replied she never stops eating! Mallory is actually quite a strong little bird considering her low weight. It seems to be affecting her legs only.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

TRACY AND POPS said:


> Thankyou John i will try the"remember me bit" as far as cookies go i have vary basic kills on my laptop and do not know what that is.


OK, what browser do you use (Firefox, Internet Explorer, etc)? I'll attempt to describe how to do it, if it's one I'm familiar with - I'll send you a PM rather than clog up this thread


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## TRACY AND POPS (Apr 9, 2012)

Hi John i click on Google Chrome on my laptop does that help answer your question?


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## Alison S (Mar 23, 2012)

Hello all,
Just an up date on what iis happening, Mallory is going to my vet friday as he is in other surgeries far away until then, he asked me to collect her feaces, i am doing this, he will look at them friday, i told him about the case of dusty, Janets' bird and he was asking what treatment she had, we are also taking bloods friday and a week on friday Mallort is being x rayed (my vet not at cardiff surgery until then),and i trust him completely, he will do all he can for Mallory.
I will keep you all informed.
Thanks again


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

HI Alison,

Glad you're having some overall tests done. That was sadly unavailable with Dusty and so we had to just 'experiment' with the options available.
Hopefully if you've managed to wean out the relevant parts of Dusty's history then you should have the meds outlined in there. Any queries, just ask.

There was a change of meds part way through when things didn't seem to alter so it does appear we overloaded him but he coped with it all with no adverse effects.

At the point I videoed him he had started to regain some use in his legs but he was totally disabled at one point and only able to move with the use of his wings.
Also I'll just add he was still able to use his legs when I first found him on the floor. The leg problem came after he was brought indoors.
He also wasn't fully weaned and was still being fed by a parent hence all the later problems he had with learning to self feed. By the sounds of it Mallory hasn't got any problems with that side of things.
Just wanted to point out that this wasn't necessarily part of the main worry ie; his sudden paraylisis.

I really hope your vet is able to find a solution for Mallory and will look forward to the updates.

Good luck

Janet


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## Alison S (Mar 23, 2012)

Thanks Janet,
Mallory is now balancing herself on her elbows whilst fluttering her wings but still unable to get upon her feet and when she stops fluttering she topples over.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi,

I used to support Dusty with my hand under his bottom so he could try and use his legs just for short bursts. Obviously as soon as I took it away he'd topple as well. :
He was almost frantic and wouldn't settle at all and never relaxed unless I held him. I couldn't leave him alone as he'd scramble constantly and I'd just find him head first in his bedding.

So difficult to watch them trying so hard.

How is Mallory as far as weight goes now, any improvement there?

Janet


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## Alison S (Mar 23, 2012)

Janet,
Mallory is exactly the same as you describe dusty above, its heartbreaking to see them trying so hard.
I support her for short bursts of fluttering as we are trying to get the weight on her, so want her to rest as much as possible, otherwise she is just burning off the calories!

Have not checked her weight, leaving this until friday at vets although she feels as if she is gaining muscle around her keel


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