# Ceremonial Release Homer vs. Racing Homer



## Bob Atkinson (Apr 5, 2007)

Hi, My name is Bob and I just found your forum and I though that I would give it a try. I'm looking for some Ceremonial Release Pigeons/Doves, not the racers. Upon release, the birds I want should circle around a few times, while the racers head straight out of the box and keep on going. Since they are both really pigeons, how can I tell which one I'm getting? What is the correct name of the Ceremonial Pigeon? Are they both decended from the Rock doves? Does anybody here have the specified pigeons for sale? Any information will be greatly appreciated.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Bob Atkinson said:


> Hi, My name is Bob and I just found your forum and I though that I would give it a try. I'm looking for some Ceremonial Release Pigeons/Doves, not the racers. Upon release, the birds I want should circle around a few times, while the racers head straight out of the box and keep on going. Since they are both really pigeons, how can I tell which one I'm getting? What is the correct name of the Ceremonial Pigeon? Are they both decended from the Rock doves? Does anybody here have the specified pigeons for sale? Any information will be greatly appreciated.


There is no difference in a racing pigeon and a ceremonial release pigeon. Never use doves. They have no homing instinct. The birds that any responsible release person uses is just a white homing/racing pigeon. I believe there may be some that are bred to be a bit smaller than a racer, but I'm not sure about that.


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## Bob Atkinson (Apr 5, 2007)

But there *is* a distinction in behavior among the homer pigeons. The racers, as I've already said, leave the vicinity immediately. The prefered ceremonial birds circle a few times and provide a much better viewing and experience.


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## relofts (Apr 8, 2004)

Bob,

There really is no difference, the white racing homers is what is used but as lovebirds stated there are different breedings for the size of white homer you may use. The rest of the effects is in the birds and the handler, it is kind of like when a person trains their race team, if they are strict and are teaching the birds to trap quickly they will keep the birds on the hungry side and release prior to feeding and the birds when whistled for or what ever means one uses will learn to trap quickly for dinner. 

When the birds get older and you want them to stay out longer you might give them a snack to hold them over so that they will stay out a little longerand not want to trap right away for food. 

Also to clarify racing homers don't always head straight home when released, they normally will circle until they get their bearings and then they will go home, it is a perfect situation if the bird comes right out of the basket and knows exactly which way is home, but that doesn't always happen.

Ellen


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## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

I think Bob you are looking at a bird which will circle around a few times and then fly home. Using homers would mean that they will do 1 or 2 circles and head home. if you use a high flyer they will circle for a long time. I think you are look at someting inbetween these 2 caracteristics


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## abisai (Jan 30, 2007)

Bob . . .Like the others said . . . white homers are what is used for releases. They just call them doves for commercial reasons (though technically the modern day pigeon is a descendent from the rock dove).

The homers will circle around a few times to get their bearings , then set for home. I also have heard of folks that have release bussines talking about birds spiraling up in wider circles then taking off. But its hard to picture a homer circling endlessly to give a show. Unless of course you throw something else into the equation - as Ellen and warriec have suggested - cross breeding or controlling their feeding schedule.


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## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

so far in my country only 1 person had tried releasing ceremonial doves as a business and it was a flop. People were able to find common not feral pigeons for cheap (about USD 1) and release them. These releases had moderate success. Sometimes in its disillusioned state it circles and sometimes it flys to the nearest tree or building. In the end it ends up in somebodys loft because alot of boys are in the game of catch keeping pigeons.

my honest opinion is not to do it for ethical reasons - only of you are able to release the birds perosnally you should do it. trusting others would mean that the birds maybe deprieved of food and water plus you wouldnt know how they are been kept prior to the release (maybe in the hot sun)


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Bob, you will most likely find that when the birds are released in a new place, they will tend to circle for a minute or so. When I train my birds, the first time I take them to a specific spot, they will circle and then head home. If we take them back to the same spot repeatedly, they circle less and less until they are actually coming out of the basket and heading home right away. I believe when doing ceremonial releases, since you won't be releasing the birds in the same spot over and over, you will see them circle some. Unless you get some really GOOD birds that head home right away. In that case, give up the releases and start racing them.


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## Bob Atkinson (Apr 5, 2007)

*Consider it clarified*

Thank you all. You have simplified my project a great deal.


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## relofts (Apr 8, 2004)

Bob,

Can you tell us what you have decided on your project, I am interested to hear what you have decided.

Ellen


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## pigeonpoo (Sep 16, 2005)

I have white homer pigeons which I use for releases. You can train a single bird to circle and wait for the others by releasing it, let it circle a couple of times and then release the others. Keep extending the time between liberating the single bird and the others and it will learn to circle until the others are released;they will all circle to get their bearings before heading home. Make sure that the birds cannot see out of their basket so they have to locate after they are released.

Don't be tempted to buy inferior birds, get the best, tested ones you can or you will loose them. I believe there is someone in the States who is breeding a small Trenton but I don't have any details.


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## Pegasus (Feb 6, 2007)

*My Opinion*

I do noticed that when my flock of homers knows the area they tends to fly around and around the vicinity and they do fly low, now if I release them somewhere farther they will circle around for a few times going higher then they will find their way home, if he plans the birds to circle around over and over or many times, I honestly think the loft should be in that exact place where they live, sleep and eat and breed...And also " Im wondering, whats the difference from common, rock and feral pigeons ", I do think they are in same categories just different ways others call them...Their instinct is to find their way home they do circle around from the place of release part of flowing with the wind and flying higher so they can see and follows their natural homing instinct, once they are closer to the loft they will fly low and STILL cirlces around until some of them decided to land on the roof...We do call them racers because they are capable to race and participate in a club, we do call them homers from their homing instinct...Just My Own Opinion...


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Bob, you might check out http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ReleaseDuvs/. I know of at least one person in northwest USA that is breeding birds like you describe.


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## Bob Atkinson (Apr 5, 2007)

relofts said:


> Bob,
> 
> Can you tell us what you have decided on your project, I am interested to hear what you have decided.
> 
> Ellen


All of the respones have been very helpful. It seems for my purpose 
and area that I would be better off with the strong racers. Part of 
the service area that I am considering is in the Carson Valley, Nv. I'm up 
at the lake, so the valley is actually lower in elevation. As you 
drive through the valley, full of horses and cows, I often count the 
hawks along the road. Some ranchers have installed what appear to be 
perches for them along their fences. My guess is that they want to 
keep the burrowing critters under control. That is a very intimidating 
business environment. Indeed, it may still be to costly even with the 
racers. The Lake Tahoe basin is heavily forested, though, and there 
isn't nearly as many hawks. I suppose that the trees provide too much 
cover for their prey. It may be nice to get the smaller, more elegent 
birds for releases at the lake, but for a beginner, I'll be better off 
with the birds that have a better chance of making it home. So now I'm 
off looking for some strong racers. This is a good place to start my 
search. I would like to start with six YB's right away. Anybody out 
there with these birds ready to go? Bob


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

I think you've made the right decision. As far as the size of the birds, to be quite honest, the majority of folks that will be your "customers" have no idea whether the bird they are looking at is big or small. Most will have never even seen a real racing pigeon. All they'll see is a beautiful white bird.  and will be happy with that.


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## SB_doves (Mar 18, 2006)

Bob Atkinson said:


> All of the respones have been very helpful. It seems for my purpose
> and area that I would be better off with the strong racers. Part of
> the service area that I am considering is in the Carson Valley, Nv. I'm up
> at the lake, so the valley is actually lower in elevation. As you
> ...


Bob,

A few things I use white racing pigeons they are better flyers and can go further IMO. Also 6 birds to start is nothing you should start with 25 to 30 you will lose some and be down to about 22 or so when you have them fully trained. Lastly mountains my birds don't do well flying in mountains they don't get up high enough also lots of hawks in those mountains. Let me know if I can help you good luck.


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## Bob Atkinson (Apr 5, 2007)

*Hawks, Mountains, and so forth*

Hi Kevin,

Perhaps you can help. My wife is always looking for an excuse to visit the kids in Santa Barbara anyhow. We have been having a little discussion on the NWDRS forum about hawks. A member explained to me that the hawks in the valley are probably Red Tail hawk, which they are, and that they are not a real threat. Her concern was the goshawk that lives and hunts in the trees. My experience in this part of the Sierras, with about twenty-five years of hiking and backpacking, is that if they are here there are very few of them. One noticeable feature they have is a fierce screech. I’ve spent too much time in the wilderness to have missed that. The number of birds that I’m starting with is determined by other considerations. We have to start slow and not offend the neighbors. It is a trial balloon and a learning experience at the same time. In addition, my facilities in the near term will only hold about twelve birds. We intend to expand that so as we can house between thirty to forty, but that will be the max. I’m developing a lead for some quality birds, but I’m concerned that the price tag may reflect that. If you have some decent birds at a reasonable price, we might be able to drive down there and pick them up. Please let me know. 

Bob


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## SB_doves (Mar 18, 2006)

Bob Atkinson said:


> Hi Kevin,
> 
> Perhaps you can help. My wife is always looking for an excuse to visit the kids in Santa Barbara anyhow. We have been having a little discussion on the NWDRS forum about hawks. A member explained to me that the hawks in the valley are probably Red Tail hawk, which they are, and that they are not a real threat. Her concern was the goshawk that lives and hunts in the trees. My experience in this part of the Sierras, with about twenty-five years of hiking and backpacking, is that if they are here there are very few of them. One noticeable feature they have is a fierce screech. I’ve spent too much time in the wilderness to have missed that. The number of birds that I’m starting with is determined by other considerations. We have to start slow and not offend the neighbors. It is a trial balloon and a learning experience at the same time. In addition, my facilities in the near term will only hold about twelve birds. We intend to expand that so as we can house between thirty to forty, but that will be the max. I’m developing a lead for some quality birds, but I’m concerned that the price tag may reflect that. If you have some decent birds at a reasonable price, we might be able to drive down there and pick them up. Please let me know.
> 
> Bob


Hi Bob,

I tell you this because I would like to see you do well not fail and be done in a few months. Where I could sell you a few birds or a couple mated pairs it's not enough. You need to first off know and love pigeons very important. They are more work then one would think and taking care of them is work. Now that being said 6 or 7 birds well not be enough to do much of anything. You should start with 24 or more if this means building a bigger loft then do it now. Then when you start you won't be turning people away because you don't have enough birds. I can't tell you how many people want 50 birds released and don't care what it costs them. I am sure you have done some homework and know who else is releasing in your area. If you don't come out and do it right from the start word travels quicker then birds fly. I would tell you you need a loft with at least two rooms three would be the best. Also my neighbors I thought would have a real problem because we are not the best of friends. I was shocked that they just love to watch my birds fly and even ask me to let them out so they can watch them fly. Make sure when training you do not let them park on your neighbors houses. Lastly Foy's has a nice supply of white homers. Good luck I am here if you need help.


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## Bob Atkinson (Apr 5, 2007)

Thanks for your good advice. I know that you are correct. It just happens that for a host of reasons, I need to build into this. My eye is on expansion, of course, but I have to demonstrate it's feasability. I'm friends with a few pastors, so maybe a few small releases will ease the apprehension at home. It is something, after all is said and done, that can start out with a minimal out lay of cash and time. It just has to prove itself, that's all. Thanks again.

Bob


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