# Is this website a scam?



## ValencianFigs (Jul 10, 2010)

I have been looking for some capuchines for sale for a while and I have found about 5 websites from different domains that has the same birds for sale and different loft name and the same pics for each website and same price.

http://www.pigeonfarms.com/

Are they a scam?


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

You could politely inquire as to how the same birds can be from different lofts. See if you get a response. I would say....keep away...but it'd be good info for others to smoke it out if you can.


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## ValencianFigs (Jul 10, 2010)

well, I dont think they are from different lofts, because they use the same exact picture on every website. 

another website that is the same is doves4sale.com


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

If in doubt, trust your gut.


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## ValencianFigs (Jul 10, 2010)

Ok, thanks for the helps. Btw are Capuchines easy to take care of and winter hardy? Because I live in virginia and i think you do to. so are they easy to take care of?


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

This site is a reseller for multiple lofts. It may or may not be legitimate. I would talk to them in person, then follow up with the Better Business Bureau (http://www.bbb.org/) before you make any purchase.

FYI - direct from their site:

_*SMS Lofts Inc. has various cooperative lofts throughout the US which provide and or ship pigeons to sale destination. Pigeons are not shipped out of or into any restricted areas. 
Payments must be Received and Processed before birds are shipped or delivered.
NOTE: No Picking Up or Visiting the Lofts option(s) available.
Shipping may change per USDA, local authorities, et al, instrcutions.
Shipping costs, health certificates costs, if needed, shipping box cost or shipping container costs and
Handling costs may be applicable for some shipments. 

Sample Pictures are provided to show samples of various colors and forms of each pigeon breed. *_


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

ValencianFigs said:


> Ok, thanks for the helps. Btw are Capuchines easy to take care of and winter hardy? Because I live in virginia and i think you do to. so are they easy to take care of?


very easy and hardy, try to get a pair though, they tend to be a bit aggressive if they are single and kept with pairs, they mind their own busniess when they have a mate, they make great foster parents too. make sure you have enough room for all your birds, 2ft per bird.


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## ValencianFigs (Jul 10, 2010)

Well Right now I am building my loft and it is pretty big so I think I can have a have about 12 birds so I will have a pair of each pigeon that I want to raise. And how much bigger are they than figuritas? I want to raise small pigeons.

Thanks,
ValencianFigs


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

ValencianFigs said:


> Well Right now I am building my loft and it is pretty big so I think I can have a have about 12 birds so I will have a pair of each pigeon that I want to raise. And how much bigger are they than figuritas? I want to raise small pigeons.
> 
> Thanks,
> ValencianFigs


They are about as big as a homing pigeon, they are really pretty in person, worth it if you can get a true pair. more small pigeons are the portuguese tumbler and some roller breeds. well all these breeds wear the same size band as the figs.


Archangels, Brunner Pouters, Chinese Nasal Tufts, Clean Legged Toys, German Owls, Helmets, High Fliers, Laughers, Nuremberg Larks, Pheasants, Starlings, Suabians, Tipplers, Tumblers: Parlor, Shortfaced, Vienna, Valencian Figuritas and Zitterhals.

Catalonian Tumblers, Clean Legged: Ancients, Firebacks, Swallows, Croppers: Holle, Norwich, Hyacinths, Magpies, Miniature Crests, Nuns, Pouters: Bohemian, Stellar, Swing, Srebrniaks and Swifts.


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## ValencianFigs (Jul 10, 2010)

Omg. I love german owls. They are nice. I had once seen a cross between a fig and a german. Not sure were though. I am going to start thinking about what other pigeon I should get.


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## ValencianFigs (Jul 10, 2010)

Do portugese tumblers have homing ability?


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

ValencianFigs said:


> Well Right now I am building my loft and it is pretty big so I think I can have a have about 12 birds so I will have a pair of each pigeon that I want to raise. And how much bigger are they than figuritas? I want to raise small pigeons.
> 
> Thanks,
> ValencianFigs


Be cautious when mixing birds of such different size or energy level. You don't want to make it impossible for your little birds to defend their nest site. Any of the Owl pigeons and rollers are breeds that generally work well with Figuritas. As always, enough space and places to move away are critical.


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## ValencianFigs (Jul 10, 2010)

Yeah. I don't want any birds that are the homer size. I think that they will squish the figs in two peaces :O I might buy a German Owl Pair.

Thanks,
ValencianFigs


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

ValencianFigs said:


> well, I dont think they are from different lofts, because they use the same exact picture on every website.
> 
> another website that is the same is doves4sale.com


*If you look real close you will see that many of these photos are taken at pigeon shows.There are many people at these shows that take pictures of the birdsTHAT DON'T BELONG TO THEM. DON'T BUY FROM THIS GUY.*GEORGE


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## ValencianFigs (Jul 10, 2010)

ok, thanks for the information. I jst didn't want to get scammed.


Thanks,

ValencianFigs


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## USALoft (Aug 19, 2010)

*PigeonFarms.com very reliable site for buying great pigeons*

PigeonFarms.com and all their affiliate sites are very reliable and honest pigeon selling company, we have had tremendous good business experience with them.

This site Pigeon-Talk and the Moderators as well the poster should be very careful not to defame people and companies allowing these types of false postings because they would be liable for the the less intelligent posters defamatory actions [both pigeon- talks and the moderator and the poster will be liable jointly and severally]

PigeonFarms.com is very reliable, we recommend them to all.

Thank you


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## USALoft (Aug 19, 2010)

*PigeonFarms.com is very reliable, we recommend them to all.*

PigeonFarms.com and all their affiliate sites are very reliable and honest pigeon selling company, we have had tremendous good business experience with them.

This site Pigeon-Talk and the Moderators as well the poster should be very careful not to defame people and companies allowing these types of false postings because they would be liable for the the less intelligent posters defamatory actions [both pigeon- talks and the moderator and the poster will be liable jointly and severally]

PigeonFarms.com is very reliable, we recommend them to all.

Thank you


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## Wingsonfire (Dec 22, 2009)

From you post, me thinks you have maybe have done more harm than good for them


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

USALoft said:


> PigeonFarms.com and all their affiliate sites are very reliable and honest pigeon selling company, we have had tremendous good business experience with them.
> 
> This site Pigeon-Talk and the Moderators as well the poster should be very careful not to defame people and companies allowing these types of false postings because they would be liable for the the less intelligent posters defamatory actions [both pigeon- talks and the moderator and the poster will be liable jointly and severally]
> 
> ...


Nothing defamatory was posted, and even if it was, this is a public forum where people are expressing their opinions. I assume that you are somehow affiliated with the site, otherwise you wouldn't have posted this message. Check with your attorney about what has been posted here. All legal and protected speech.

You should be happy with the information I posted...any *legitimate* business would be glad to have people check them out with the Better Business Bureau.


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## ValencianFigs (Jul 10, 2010)

ptras said:


> Nothing defamatory was posted, and even if it was, this is a public forum where people are expressing their opinions. I assume that you are somehow affiliated with the site, otherwise you wouldn't have posted this message. Check with your attorney about what has been posted here. All legal and protected speech.
> 
> You should be happy with the information I posted...any *legitimate* business would be glad to have people check them out with the Better Business Bureau.



Yeah, I was only asking if it was a spam or not, I just wanted to make sure before I make business with them.


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## eyespyer (Jul 14, 2008)

ptras said:


> Nothing defamatory was posted, and even if it was, this is a public forum where people are expressing their opinions. I assume that you are somehow affiliated with the site, otherwise you wouldn't have posted this message. Check with your attorney about what has been posted here. All legal and protected speech.
> 
> You should be happy with the information I posted...any *legitimate* business would be glad to have people check them out with the Better Business Bureau.


Well said ptras !!!

I just looked up the address on Google "4067 Hardwick Street, Suite 354 Lakewood, California 90712."

Looks like a strip mall to me?


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

eyespyer said:


> Well said ptras !!!
> 
> I just looked up the address on Google "4067 Hardwick Street, Suite 354 Lakewood, California 90712."
> 
> Looks like a strip mall to me?


They may be totally legit, but I am always a bit leery of places who have big old disclaimers in their advertisements, and I'm also not too keen on that line "NOTE: No Picking Up or Visiting the Lofts option(s) available." Makes me think that they are just a storefront feather merchant. Again - my opinion of this is that anyone planning on doing business with them should check them out with the BBB, and maybe the state Attorney General's office too.


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## drifter (Oct 7, 2009)

I suspect that USALoft and PigeonFarms.com are one and the same, otherwise why would he be concerned about their reputation.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

USALoft said:


> PigeonFarms.com and all their affiliate sites are very reliable and honest pigeon selling company, we have had tremendous good business experience with them.
> 
> This site Pigeon-Talk and the Moderators as well the poster should be very careful not to defame people and companies allowing these types of false postings because they would be liable for the *the less intelligent posters* defamatory actions [both pigeon- talks and the moderator and the poster will be liable jointly and severally]
> 
> ...


Hey! I just noticed that you defamed me! How DARE you post on this public forum that I am "less intelligent"??? I'm going to consult my attorney about whether you are severally or jointly liable for your defamatory statement.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

hmmmmm somethin smells fishy.....


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## atvracinjason (Mar 4, 2010)

any loft that is has such a defensive stature would NEVER get any of my cash
-suing for people making less than inteligent statements...that is outright funny....USA loft...please continue to post as the deep laughing has subsided, I'm still giggling about iit though


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

atvracinjason said:


> any loft that is has such a defensive stature would NEVER get any of my cash
> -suing for people making less than inteligent statements...that is outright funny....USA loft...please continue to post as the deep laughing has subsided, I'm still giggling about iit though


Maybe you should take a drive by there...it's only an hour and a half from you up I-5.


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## atvracinjason (Mar 4, 2010)

Nah I'd rather go to Mojave Lofts...I heard they have the bestest birds in the west


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## ValencianFigs (Jul 10, 2010)

eyespyer said:


> Well said ptras !!!
> 
> I just looked up the address on Google "4067 Hardwick Street, Suite 354 Lakewood, California 90712."
> 
> Looks like a strip mall to me?


Yeah, I tried to Google Earth it and it looks like a mall.



ptras said:


> They may be totally legit, but I am always a bit leery of places who have big old disclaimers in their advertisements, and I'm also not too keen on that line "NOTE: No Picking Up or Visiting the Lofts option(s) available." Makes me think that they are just a storefront feather merchant. Again - my opinion of this is that anyone planning on doing business with them should check them out with the BBB, and maybe the state Attorney General's office too.


Yeah, I would never write something like that one my website. No picking up!!! That is outrageous.



grifter said:


> I suspect that USALoft and PigeonFarms.com are one and the same, otherwise why would he be concerned about their reputation.


It looks like it. 

Thanks,
ValencianFigs


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## jeo73 (Aug 1, 2010)

ptras said:


> This site is a reseller for multiple lofts. It may or may not be legitimate. I would talk to them in person, then follow up with the Better Business Bureau (http://www.bbb.org/) before you make any purchase.
> 
> FYI - direct from their site:
> 
> ...


they are brokers, diiferent websites, but same company, they have branches all over, they r not a scam


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## jeo73 (Aug 1, 2010)

jeo73 said:


> they are brokers, diiferent websites, but same company, they have branches all over, they r not a scam


they r like puppy mills, bird breeders, i wouldnt buy from them, find a private seller


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Ok members, I've e-mailed the person claiming to be defamed here. I think you all have figured things out quite well. Let's just let this one go for now. Perhaps I will hear back from the complainant and perhaps not.

Terry


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## Pixy (Mar 29, 2005)

Ive found a picture of a Giant Hungarian House pigeon on the website that did not belong to them, when I had just seen it on a separate website. I informed the owner(of the original website) and she was grateful because she had no idea that pigeonfarms stole the picture! Those guys charge lots of money too! They were "SMS" before but I guess they changed their name.


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## Pixy (Mar 29, 2005)

jeo73 said:


> they are brokers, diiferent websites, but same company, they have branches all over, they r not a scam


I wonder why they just wouldnt give you more information about the loft. It seems impersonal..and mysterious. OK, im done here!


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## jeo73 (Aug 1, 2010)

Pixy said:


> I wonder why they just wouldnt give you more information about the loft. It seems impersonal..and mysterious. OK, im done here!


i would stay away from them, it s always better to find a local breeder so u can see the stock and ask questions, like i said, they r brokers, what they do is they buy pigeons for low prices from all over the us, and them, they mark them up to make profits, like i said, stay away from themthey wont let u visit cause of health concerns, like u bring him a disease, if u r gonna visit, u better buy a bunch of them, and they will provide u with jump suits, lol, they are the biggest in the US, they are like puppy mills, and they have thousands of birds, from a place like this, u never know what u r getting, all they do is breed, they dont care about anything else/


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## jeo73 (Aug 1, 2010)

ptras said:


> Hey! I just noticed that you defamed me! How DARE you post on this public forum that I am "less intelligent"??? I'm going to consult my attorney about whether you are severally or jointly liable for your defamatory statement.


why are u so worried about somebody s opinion, free expression, ex: an opinion against someones ability to think clearly is a personal opinion, is not defamatory cause is not affecting ur business, is personal. iam a lawyer, 50 for a consultation, whether u take the case, or not, and 1500 to take him to court, but the judge is going to throw it out, cause is not defamatory. Is just an opinion.let me know


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

jeo73 said:


> why are u so worried about somebody s opinion, free expression, ex: an opinion against someones ability to think clearly is a personal opinion, is not defamatory cause is not affecting ur business, is personal. iam a lawyer, 50 for a consultation, whether u take the case, or not, and 1500 to take him to court, but the judge is going to throw it out, cause is not defamatory. Is just an opinion.let me know


Think the comment was meant as a bit of humor, actually


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## jeo73 (Aug 1, 2010)

John_D said:


> Think the comment was meant as a bit of humor, actually


i see, i just want to take his 1500, i agree he is less intelligent, do, i can get like 15 nice birds for 1500,, do some research on them, usda has fined them so many times from health violations that is not even funny.


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## jeo73 (Aug 1, 2010)

have to go to work, my phone is ringing off the hook


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Careful PTRAS
You have to "sue" your"last" person someday.
That may be your "last" person.
I know I'd be the "LAST" person you ever sued.


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

Will SMS Inc ever stop coming in here with these crazy posts. Every time there talked about we get a "random" new member who wants to stick up for them and by the way they type it's always the same person. I think the owner of SMS is just trying to save his bad company and in doing so making it look worse.


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