# sick baby pigeons.5 dead.please help



## rusafa (Mar 14, 2009)

hi guys! all of my baby pigeons are having yellow swellings all over their butt and body.they are dying after a few days.plz help me.can you tell me whats causings this?!i think its the season change!please please help!


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Where are you and how old are the babies and did any more die and how many pigeons do you have??? c.hert


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

Is it pigeon pox ?


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## jameswaller (Nov 4, 2008)

*could be serious*



rusafa said:


> hi guys! all of my baby pigeons are having yellow swellings all over their butt and body.they are dying after a few days.plz help me.can you tell me whats causings this?!i think its the season change!please please help!


if you have any penicillin/amoxicillin/ don,t hesitate to administer it,50mg to start-see if that starts a working--,i always keep a private supply on hand,,never know when diseases will crop up..sincerely james waller


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

How are the parents acting?


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## rusafa (Mar 14, 2009)

hi guys,thanks for your reply.i think the parent are perfectly alright.they appear to be fine.it is a babies who are catching this sickness.i am from bangladesh ,asia.i have about 20 pigeons.recently babies are becoming sick when they are about a week old.today i applied potassium per mangate on the yellow swellings.tmrw i'll give them penicillin aswell.can you plz tell me the amount of penicillin i should feed the babies?


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## rusafa (Mar 14, 2009)

jameswaller said:


> if you have any penicillin/amoxicillin/ don,t hesitate to administer it,50mg to start-see if that starts a working--,i always keep a private supply on hand,,never know when diseases will crop up..sincerely james waller


.today i applied potassium per mangate on the yellow swellings.tmrw i'll give them penicillin aswell.can you plz tell me the amount of penicillin i should feed the babies?


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Are the pigeons still on pigeon milk if they are I would wait and not separate them from their parents just yet--just apply you topical for now and leave them be and see what happens hoping the parents will continue to feed them and don't disturb them any more. Are the parents still taking care of them---Do you have two sets of parents or three with their babies (5 days old that is young) Parents feed that all important pigeon milk at least up to 7 or 8 days and then they feed seed from their mouths(wetted)-I would not do anything else as long as the parents are with them....c.hert


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## M Kurps (Mar 19, 2009)

Sounds like Canker to me.But I'm not there.
Kurps

Safe medications to use while breeding for canker are Metronidazol,Ronidazole


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Sounds like Canker to me too and I'm not there as well....c.hert


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Rusafa: Canker is caused by Trichomonas and this is a single cell organism. If this is Canker (sounds like but I am not there) it might be wise to approach this from 2 or 3 sides. Number one---baby birds can build up some immunity to Canker and it is in their early stages of life that this is possible but sometimes the immunity is outweigh by the disease and it takes over and kills the bird. Now what you need to do right now is treat all the birds in your loft with Canker medicine that bird people use in Bangladesh and hold off for the time being with these babies---but do treat the parents and I would give them a pill form for now and if you have to treat the babies (use your judgement here) take the parent size pill and estimate (India's people are good at figuring out math better than I can ) and estimate the size difference of the two the parent and the baby and give it to the baby in that small amount---if you have too--if its only a few little flakes of yellow maybe wait maybe baby getting an immunity to the disease---use your judgement here and talk to other bird people and maybe a bird hospital or something but I do believe it very well be Canker but you also need to balance the disturbance of the parents and babies and take this into consideration...We use a pill here by the name of Spartrix for Canker or even Flagyl but check with your pigeon people and see how they do in your area...Here I would use 1 tablet of Spartrix for the adult per day for about 4 days and for the first two days of dosing--give a small amount--to baby birds--estimate by the size of the two : adult and baby: and I would do this for two days and see if there is an improvement and if not use your judgement but give it a chance... You need to remember that Canker during breeding season is not controlled by medicine alone it is the developement of a strong immunity system here to the disease and I would only dose the birds if I really had to and they could anyway (babies). Once you get Canker in a loft you could use some preventative measures with things like Turbosole given for 2 days periodical but we can attend to these things later.---For the baby birds being 5 days old and if they are on pigeon milk they are getting it from their parents and I would treat the parents to pill form for 4 days with Spartex but I would wait at this time on the babies because of the disturbance---you don't want the trichomonads to increase from where they are and take a wait and see approach on them at least until they are off of the pigeon milk...Best I can do IF THEY HAVE CANKER and use your area vet people or bird hospital conference or whatever you have assess to by funds or people who have the knowledge to help and I say : Yo-Yo Yam Yam....don't know what that means but I was always curious on what it means in Hindi----Best wishes C.hert


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Rusafa: I think I have a better idea--we have a very knowledgeable pigeon person in this forum from India (Kerala and Calicut) and you could send him a personal message on his profile page and see what he can suggest---He is very good with knowledge about pigeons..... His name in this forum is Sreeshs Just my opinion and I don't know this person---using my instinct here.....c.hert


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## Mindy (Apr 2, 2009)

I suggest sending a message to Plahemn. He is from another country and may know the medicine that you have available to you. He is just great and really knows his medicine. min


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

You need to call a pharmacy and find out if they have metronidazole [flagyl] that you can legally purchase. If they do, buy the lowesr dose and we can help you fogure out how much to gibve the baby Pigeons based upon their weight.
A picutre of the yellow spots would be very hepful.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Here's a list of resources in India that may be of some help to you. Contact any of them to find out where there is help in your area.

Karuna Society for Animals and Nature 
2/138/C,
Karuna Nilayam, Behind S.C. Quarters,
Vill. Enumulapalli,
Puttaparthi- 515134, 
Anantpur District,
Andhra Pradesh,
India
Phone: + 91 (8555) 287214
Email: [email protected], [email protected]
http://www.karunasociety.org/ 
Veterinary hospital, shelter, animal ambulance, pet adoption, wildlife rescue.

DELHI/NEW DELHI

Charity Birds Hospital
Shri Digambar Jain Lal Mandir Ji,
Opposite Red Fort,
Chandni Chowk,
Delhi -110006.
Phone: 32909216.
(Contact Person - Shri Pankaj Jain, Superintendent)

Charitable Birds Hospital, 
Shri Vijayanand Sureshwar Jain Sewa Trust,
H-48, Near Corporation Pump, 
Navin Shahdara,
Delhi - 110032.
Phone: 22825088

Friendicoes SECA (Society for the Eradication of Cruelty to Animals)
271 & 273 Defence Colony Flyover Market (Jungpura side),
New Delhi - 110024,
India.
Phone: 011- 24320707, 24314787
Email : [email protected]
Shelter, veterinary hospital, animal ambulance, pet adoption, wildlife rescue. 
http://www.friendicoes.org/

KARNATAKA

People for Animals,
67 Uttalahari Main Road Kengeri,
Bangalore
Karanataka 560060
Tel + 91 80 28 603 986
http://www.pfa-bangalore.org/archive.aspx

CUPA (Compassion Unlimited Plus Action)
KVASFU,
Bellary Road,
Hebbal, Bangalore- 560024 
Landmark: Near Veterinary Hospital And College

Phone numbers: 080-22947312, 080-22947300

Website: http://www.cupabangalore.org/


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes. You need to buy the Metronidazole and get the babies treated. You cannot wait on this, because when they have canker, it doesn't get better and go away. It will get worse and kill them. If it is canker, and it sure sounds like it is, and you wait longer it will be harder or impossible to cure. They'll die.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Rusafa: I really hope that you come back on line sometime on this thread and update us because a lot of people have contributed their knowledge and help and don't let the different names of medicine confuse you Metronidazole (Flagyl) is an updated version of Spartrix and suppose to work much better for Canker because the older medicine Spartrix is now found to be not as effective any more because of overuse of it here in our country but I really don't know what your country has to offer in the way of canker medicine---please come back to the thread and let us know what is happening--I would appreciate that....c.hert


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Ronidazole (which is powdered metronidazole) is water soluble and added to the drinking water. If at all possible, if you can get that and treat the water for the parents. They in turn will feed the babies, and the babies will be treated. I did this a long time ago when the babies were too small for pill form, and it worked. Just my suggestion - but you do need to get some form of metronidazole (flagyl) into them.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Wonderful suggestion Msfreebird and I sure hope that our friend Rusafa comes back online and seeks help once again....c.hert


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## soymi69 (Nov 12, 2007)

It looks like your young birds have Paratyphoid or Samonella, the boils are part of this disease and young dying in the nest is also part of this disease. Go to Youtube and type in pigeon diseases and it will take you to videos of pigeon disease and the cure, it will also show you exact symptoms of the diseases. I highly suggest giving your birds Apple Cider Vinegar because Samonella doesn't live in an acidic environment, avoid bleach because chlorine raises the PH and arbor the disease. 2 tbspn per gallon twice a week should help.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> my baby pigeons are having yellow swellings all over their butt and body


There is really too little information here for anyone even to guess the cause! Can you provide more information about the location and size of the swellings, please? We also need to know the age the pigeons are when the swellings appear.

Canker is caused by a protozoa that follows the digestive tract and can cause visible lesions on the butt (when there is a nodule in the cloaca), the navel and the mouth, it can sometimes break through the skin if it is in the crop, but it does not cause lumps all over the body. So for example, if there are lumps on the feet, then that isn't canker. If the swellings are all over the body, that certainly doesn't sound like canker! Also, the clinical signs take 6 days to appear which is why the age of the squabs is important.

Paratyphoid can cause swellings on the joints, but again, not all over the body.

Pox can cause pustules on the unfeathered parts of the body, it has an incubation period of 4 to 10 days. There can be pustules inside the mouth which can be confused with canker.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

A picture would probably help a lot. Could be anything.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

pox lesions? need a clear pic.... and your location.


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## rusafa (Mar 14, 2009)

c.hert said:


> Rusafa: Canker is caused by Trichomonas and this is a single cell organism. If this is Canker (sounds like but I am not there) it might be wise to approach this from 2 or 3 sides. Number one---baby birds can build up some immunity to Canker and it is in their early stages of life that this is possible but sometimes the immunity is outweigh by the disease and it takes over and kills the bird. Now what you need to do right now is treat all the birds in your loft with Canker medicine that bird people use in Bangladesh and hold off for the time being with these babies---but do treat the parents and I would give them a pill form for now and if you have to treat the babies (use your judgement here) take the parent size pill and estimate (India's people are good at figuring out math better than I can ) and estimate the size difference of the two the parent and the baby and give it to the baby in that small amount---if you have too--if its only a few little flakes of yellow maybe wait maybe baby getting an immunity to the disease---use your judgement here and talk to other bird people and maybe a bird hospital or something but I do believe it very well be Canker but you also need to balance the disturbance of the parents and babies and take this into consideration...We use a pill here by the name of Spartrix for Canker or even Flagyl but check with your pigeon people and see how they do in your area...Here I would use 1 tablet of Spartrix for the adult per day for about 4 days and for the first two days of dosing--give a small amount--to baby birds--estimate by the size of the two : adult and baby: and I would do this for two days and see if there is an improvement and if not use your judgement but give it a chance... You need to remember that Canker during breeding season is not controlled by medicine alone it is the developement of a strong immunity system here to the disease and I would only dose the birds if I really had to and they could anyway (babies). Once you get Canker in a loft you could use some preventative measures with things like Turbosole given for 2 days periodical but we can attend to these things later.---For the baby birds being 5 days old and if they are on pigeon milk they are getting it from their parents and I would treat the parents to pill form for 4 days with Spartex but I would wait at this time on the babies because of the disturbance---you don't want the trichomonads to increase from where they are and take a wait and see approach on them at least until they are off of the pigeon milk...Best I can do IF THEY HAVE CANKER and use your area vet people or bird hospital conference or whatever you have assess to by funds or people who have the knowledge to help and I say : Yo-Yo Yam Yam....don't know what that means but I was always curious on what it means in Hindi----Best wishes C.hert


thanks a alot c hert for taking the time and writing a long list of cure for my pigeons! im really grateful to you.i dont know what canker is.did your baby pigoens ever hae this disease? we have flagyl in or country,i am going to buy it tmrw if you can suggest me the dosage,becaue these birds have really weak hearts.i dont want to make the healthy adults to become sick too.i applied potassium permanganate and i think that the yellow swellings are drecreasing a little bit.please suggest me the dosage of flagyl! thank you  btw how many pigeons do you have?


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## rusafa (Mar 14, 2009)

Msfreebird said:


> Ronidazole (which is powdered metronidazole) is water soluble and added to the drinking water. If at all possible, if you can get that and treat the water for the parents. They in turn will feed the babies, and the babies will be treated. I did this a long time ago when the babies were too small for pill form, and it worked. Just my suggestion - but you do need to get some form of metronidazole (flagyl) into them.


thank you ms free bird.how much flagyl (milligram) should i mix in water? can you tell me the amount of water too? i previously used to treat my birds with renamycin(oxytetracyclin) but it doesnt work that well...have you ever tried feeding garlic to your pigeons? sounds funny but it truely build up their immunity! ..please suggest me the dosage of flagyl


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

Rusafa, good to hear that its atleast decreasing now. Treating pigeons for canker is always advisable. You can treat for canker even if the pigeons are not yet infected, so go ahead, but at the same time its not sure that the disease here is canker itself. It would help if you could post a picture of the infected pigeon please. On the garlic side, we have a sticky post "The goodness of garlic" put together by our experienced members.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Carnidazole (Spartrix) is available in pill form and has a wide safety margin and good with youngsters in the nest. Most people prefer Metronidazole (Flagyl) and available in a syrup you can put in water and also pill form with a variety of strengths..You can give individual birds 1/4 of tablet (200mg tablets) and for the Flagyl syrup you can give it in water 5-10 ml per liter and not very good taste for the birds--not metal drinking containers... Your Renamycin would be good for chamidia (spelling wrong here I think).. and unless you think you have that I would hold off on that until you solve the problem of the yellow marks or sores on the babies bottoms. The Renamycin is a antibiotic and good with other things--but if you want to try for canker which I would do first then the above. Garlic they say is wonderful (most people on this forum)(also a sticky) but my personal preference right now would be not to use it right now under these conditions. My loft has 30 females and 31 males -give or take one or two added 2 wild ones after a long sickness-doctors okay --in the loft now and starting fights but doing very very well (male side) and "knock on wood" slang american saying I have never had Canker in my loft.. I scrape everyday and do not use straw or hay and outside area I use wire and I change the water everyday and food too and just basically keep checking things and aggravating the birds....and I especially smell my grain I am feeding and really look at it and I give them treats: chopped up lettuce and apples and pieces of whole wheat bread mixed in sometimes I put and mix some seseme seeds (sp). I use tobacco stems because they don't hold water and the droppings keeps it dry as well and soft for a perfect nest to be form...I like the droppings if the birds are not sick because they have a real drying effect and rats and mice don't like them...this information I got out of The Pigeon Book by Levi....I sure hope your pigeons get well and everything gets on the right track again...after all of this clean and scrape your loft and check the outside for dampness and turn over your soil outside for it to dry out really well and figure it out as to how to have it not damp......Best wishes to you my friend....c.hert The information about the droppings only I got out of Levi"s book Copywrote (1941----reprinted----1998 ....c.hert


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You can't be sure this is canker. Doesn't sound like it. It wouldn't cause lumps all over the bird. You need to at least get the poop checked to find out what you are dealing with. You could very well be treating for one thing, and they could be dying of something else. It doesn't cost that much to just get the poop checked. Or bringing in one baby to the vet would be even better.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Here's a link to the different kinds of canker. I agree that you may be dealing with more than one thing that is making your babies sick.

It's difficult for us to know just what drugs are available to you in India. I hope you will go back and have a look at the resources I posted, in this thread, with resources in India
that may be of some help to you. When little babies are bombarded with several parasites or bacteria, their immune system have not been able to develop and kind of a resistance and so they are easily overwhelmed. This has been going on for some days now and you need to take some action on their behalf, since they can't do for themselves. It is up to you.

http://www.auspigeonco.com.au/products/veterinary_medicines2.html


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Our forum mate Charis has put some resources in for you to get help as well.Look at your posting #15 and see if any of them are close to you in Bangladeash (I hope I spelled that right--no insult intended---Charis has more links to things then anyone could possibly imagine and I hope post 15 helps you with resources...c.hert


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

c.hert said:


> Our forum mate Charis has put some resources in for you to get help as well.Look at your posting #15 and see if any of them are close to you in Bangladeash (I hope I spelled that right--no insult intended---Charis has more links to things then anyone could possibly imagine and I hope post 15 helps you with resources...c.hert


Bangladesh is the neighbouring country situated to the North East of India. Rusafa will need a passport and catch a flight to access help here.

We have a couple of members from Dhaka, Bangladesh. Yeasmin, Warren and a couple more. Have sent PM to them for help.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Sorry...I thought Rusafa lived in India.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Thank you Sreesh for that information and I am so glad that you are in this loop and I sure hope his birds get better and Charis will come up with more resources as well because she is very very good at getting resources--I think anyway and she has come through with some good ones and has links you would not believe--but I am so glad that you pm this new forum member and I hope everything goes well with everyone. I wish I was good on the computer like you two are for I don't even know how to do a link--but I will learn in time..I hope our forum member contacts you soon...c.hert


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## rusafa (Mar 14, 2009)

hey feefo..my 7 days old pigeons have boils on their butt and mouth.what to do? i think its the protozoa ur talking about


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## rusafa (Mar 14, 2009)

Feefo said:


> There is really too little information here for anyone even to guess the cause! Can you provide more information about the location and size of the swellings, please? We also need to know the age the pigeons are when the swellings appear.
> 
> Canker is caused by a protozoa that follows the digestive tract and can cause visible lesions on the butt (when there is a nodule in the cloaca), the navel and the mouth, it can sometimes break through the skin if it is in the crop, but it does not cause lumps all over the body. So for example, if there are lumps on the feet, then that isn't canker. If the swellings are all over the body, that certainly doesn't sound like canker! Also, the clinical signs take 6 days to appear which is why the age of the squabs is important.
> 
> ...


hey feefo..my 7 days old pigeons have boils on their butt and mouth.what to do? i think its the protozoa ur talking about.should ifeed them flagyl?and yea ive discovered today that one of my adult birds is having a small infection inside her mouth.its hard for her to eat the grains and wheat.what to do?


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

When you say boils in the mouth, is this the inside portion of the beak ? or the portion where the beak joints to the head and the surrounding areas ? Are there boils on the outer portion of the beak which are visible without opening the beak ?


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## rusafa (Mar 14, 2009)

sreeshs said:


> When you say boils in the mouth, is this the inside portion of the beak ? or the portion where the beak joints to the head and the surrounding areas ? Are there boils on the outer portion of the beak which are visible without opening the beak ?


sreesh,the adult bird i am talking about,she seems to be fine,except for the fact that she is having a white infection kind of a thing INSIDE her beak near her throat.thats why its hard for her to engulf some of the grains.

and i think the rest of the BABY pigeons are having canker/protozoan virus...in this case their face and butt are swollen and yellow.poor me...


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Rusafa: Feefo is not on line time difference but post before Sreesh is asking very important question please answer...c.hert


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Rusafa: your birds are going to be fine and with Sreesh good experience he will sort it out and he trying I guess to diagnose it proper so that he can help you and he will.. The poor me will be fine---c.hert


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## rusafa (Mar 14, 2009)

c.hert said:


> Rusafa: Feefo is not on line time difference but post before Sreesh is asking very important question please answer...c.hert


yup yup i answered his question


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

rusafa said:


> sreesh,the adult bird i am talking about,she seems to be fine,except for the fact that she is having a white infection kind of a thing INSIDE her beak near her throat.thats why its hard for her to engulf some of the grains.
> 
> and i think the rest of the BABY pigeons are having canker/protozoan virus...in this case their face and butt are swollen and yellow.poor me...


Canker need not be always visible as yellow cheesy deposits. I have read from mebers posts that canker can also be with white cheesy deposits or with no sign of the deposits at all. So the adult bird also may be having canker. I suggest don't waste time, a vet is the best bet. Do you have access to vet doctors near your area ? 
If you dont have a carry cage, take an old shoe carton make holes in that using scissors on all sides for air passage and use that as the carry case.


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## rusafa (Mar 14, 2009)

c.hert said:


> Rusafa: your birds are going to be fine and with Sreesh good experience he will sort it out and he trying I guess to diagnose it proper so that he can help you and he will.. The poor me will be fine---c.hert


yup c hert u know it really hurts when u love and take care of them soo much still they die....i used to LOVE my fantail...his wife was dead with a disease few months back...


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## rusafa (Mar 14, 2009)

sreeshs said:


> Canker need not be always visible as yellow cheesy deposits. I have read from mebers posts that canker can also be with white cheesy deposits or with no sign of the deposits at all. So the adult bird also may be having canker. I suggest don't waste time, a vet is the best bet. Do you have access to vet doctors near your area ?
> If you dont have a carry cage, take an old shoe carton make holes in that using scissors on all sides for air passage and use that as the carry case.


cage isnt a problem..ive got many of them.i think its high time i take them to a vet.i am going to take them .....


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Just for you two to differentiate against pox" the book says is wart like growths on the nose and eye ceres and the edges of the beak and the pigeons feet---this does not sound like pox but it definitely sounds like canker to me...c.hert---

Sreesh: maybe he has canker medicine do you Rusafa???


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

If it is daytime there can you do what Sreesh says--get a carrying case and bring sick bird to avian vet or something??? Here in Colorado it is 1:20 a. m. is it daytime where you are???Do what Sreesh says::: I think it is Canker but it is vet time to verify.c.hert


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Good for you Rusafa and do that---wonderful---do you need a small contribution are you money enough --I love giving donations to birds in worthy causes--especially from Bangladesh...Krisna speed...Love C.hert


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## rusafa (Mar 14, 2009)

c.hert said:


> If it is daytime there can you do what Sreesh says--get a carrying case and bring sick bird to avian vet or something??? Here in Colorado it is 1:20 a. m. is it daytime where you are???Do what Sreesh says::: I think it is Canker but it is vet time to verify.c.hert


yep it is 2.27 pm in here.i already called up my vet and he advised me to feed them spartrix/flagyl.for adults,1 spartrix per day.do you think1 tablet for a bird is too muh?i am worried not to overdose them.please reply


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## rusafa (Mar 14, 2009)

c.hert said:


> Good for you Rusafa and do that---wonderful---do you need a small contribution are you money enough --I love giving donations to birds in worthy causes--especially from Bangladesh...Krisna speed...Love C.hert


thanks alot c.hert for your offer  but i can afford that..hehe...only problem in our country is that the vets/animal hospitals arent good enough.even if you pay them well...they are going to end up saying that "your birds are gonna die anyway".thats what happened to me when the vet came to my house last season when my pigeons had this REALLY BAD virus or sth..all of them were sick and the stupid vet couldnt do anything:S..the problem here is that they dont even care if a poor birdy dies...


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## rusafa (Mar 14, 2009)

sreeshs said:


> Canker need not be always visible as yellow cheesy deposits. I have read from mebers posts that canker can also be with white cheesy deposits or with no sign of the deposits at all. So the adult bird also may be having canker. I suggest don't waste time, a vet is the best bet. Do you have access to vet doctors near your area ?
> If you dont have a carry cage, take an old shoe carton make holes in that using scissors on all sides for air passage and use that as the carry case.


i already called up my vet and he advised me to feed them spartrix/flagyl.for adults,1 spartrix per day.do you think1 tablet for a bird is too muh?i am worried not to overdose them.please reply


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## rusafa (Mar 14, 2009)

Affected birds should be separated and treated with either one-quarter of a Flagyl tablet (200 mg) or one whole Spartrix tablet once daily until well. This usually takes 1 - 3 days. Alternatively, the unwell youngsters' water can be medicated with Turbosole (1/2 teaspoon to 1 litre of water). It is important, however, to ensure that any unwell youngster is still able to drink. Turbosole can also be mixed into a paste and the youngster's throat painted with this using a cotton bud. The group of youngsters, as a whole, should only be treated if more than 10% of youngsters are showing signs, usually with Turbosole for 2 - 3 days. However, in this situation it is best to seek veterinary advice.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

What is the strength on the spartrix pill??? The book says this....One tablet per bird and estimate the size of the youngster compared to the adult and give that amount--a smaller amount by judgement--Medicate for two days--if the unwell youngster is slow to respond it is best to eliminate but don't worry about this the babies will respond---what is the strength of your pills???? Estimate how big the parent is to the bird and give the bird baby that amount: 1/4 the size or 1/8 the size?????? Help Sreesh---I"m not good at math either --just reading the book....What size is the tablets....c.hert


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## rusafa (Mar 14, 2009)

c.hert said:


> What is the strength on the spartrix pill??? The book says this....One tablet per bird and estimate the size of the youngster compared to the adult and give that amount--a smaller amount by judgement--Medicate for two days--if the unwell youngster is slow to respond it is best to eliminate but don't worry about this the babies will respond---what is the strength of your pills???? Estimate how big the parent is to the bird and give the bird baby that amount: 1/4 the size or 1/8 the size?????? Help Sreesh---I"m not good at math either --just reading the book....What size is the tablets....c.hert


i have to buy the spartrix tablet first...ehehe..i can reply after 1 hour!


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

I will be waiting right here for you and when you get back we will figure this out and the strength of the tablets should be 200 mg and it is 1 for the adult buy you estimate the baby size compared to the adult and give that amount and I am so glad you get vet advice and do this (my book says 2 days) but your information says 3 days but we will figure that out too..I am going to have a cup of tea and wait right here for you friend.


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## rusafa (Mar 14, 2009)

if you have a facebook account..then you can take a look at my pigeons

http://www.facebook.com/rusafa#!/album.php?aid=91553&id=717106757


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Don't have a facebook account---Whats the mg of the bottle of medicine?


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Rusafa go to post #29 and pick up on that link and read about canker--Charis linked it .


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Well I hope you got the medicine and know what to do with it and you are off line now so I guess I will go to bed now until we communicate again...Keep us posted.c.hert


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Rusafa...your birds are beautiful and it looks like you keep their loft very clean. Keeping a clean loft is so important and you can eliminate many illnesses and parasites by doing do.


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## YaSin11 (Jul 23, 2009)

*....From Dhaka...*

Rusafa,
Hi. I'm from Dhaka. Salam  1st of all I want to thank Sreesh for sendin' me a PM abt. this..I had skipped over the tread it earlier..sorry abt. tht..
It seems Pt members have tried all the possible diagnosis..as well as can be done. Why have you not posted any pictures?..~-^...Near the start of the post you mentioned 'bumps all over'..I suspected pox/paratyphoid...now it seems 'swellings(~) near beak/rear'..?...different symptoms..could be combination of things..but medicating with 'Flagyl' in the water is a safe choice. I've had babies die last season from pox...er'khom ei...5 days or so..I advise against over medicating.And garlic?..for sure! it really helps, full of goodness 
Hope your babies are doing better,Please try to post pics, it really helps ppl diagnose better. You have wonderful birds, _jotil_...Peace  YaSin


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

warren11 said:


> Rusafa,
> Hi. I'm from Dhaka. Salam  1st of all I want to thank Sreesh for sendin' me a PM abt. this..I had skipped over the tread it earlier..sorry abt. tht..
> It seems Pt members have tried all the possible diagnosis..as well as can be done. Why have you not posted any pictures?..~-^...Near the start of the post you mentioned 'bumps all over'..I suspected pox/paratyphoid...now it seems 'swellings(~) near beak/rear'..?...different symptoms..could be combination of things..but medicating with 'Flagyl' in the water is a safe choice. I've had babies die last season from pox...er'khom ei...5 days or so..I advise against over medicating.And garlic?..for sure! it really helps, full of goodness
> Hope your babies are doing better,Please try to post pics, it really helps ppl diagnose better. You have wonderful birds, _jotil_...Peace  YaSin


Do you know of veterinarians that treat birds and or where he can buy medications? That contact information would be wonderful to have.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Rusafa already got some medicine yesterday and it was proscribed by a vet and he went out and bought it and as far as I know has already given it to his pigeons and we are waiting for his next contact---The vet told him to get Spartrix or Flagll (spelling) and other things to do making a paste --you need to go back and read the threads from last night---So he will keep up posted and in the loop...Thanks for helping him your contact postings....c.hert


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## rusafa (Mar 14, 2009)

c.hert said:


> Rusafa already got some medicine yesterday and it was proscribed by a vet and he went out and bought it and as far as I know has already given it to his pigeons and we are waiting for his next contact---The vet told him to get Spartrix or Flagll (spelling) and other things to do making a paste --you need to go back and read the threads from last night---So he will keep up posted and in the loop...Thanks for helping him your contact postings....c.hert


hey chert i aint a HE ..i am a girl...its a SHE ehehe...anyway i lookd for spartrix in my nearby pharmacy and that stupid pharmacy doesnt sell it.i'll buy flagyl instead!


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Can you also buy Baytril? How about Albon?


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## rusafa (Mar 14, 2009)

Charis said:


> Rusafa...your birds are beautiful and it looks like you keep their loft very clean. Keeping a clean loft is so important and you can eliminate many illnesses and parasites by doing do.


thanx alot...for appreciating


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## rusafa (Mar 14, 2009)

Charis said:


> Can you also buy Baytril? How about Albon?


ive gotta look for it...i'll do it tmrw for sure is that an alternative for spartrix?


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

No get the canker medicine spartrix or flagyl tablets and post Freefo who you posted in the beginning to ask for help ..I am disappointed you don't have the medicine the vet told you to get for your birds---Do it now and get the medicine ---and give it to the sick birds---you didn't listen or care how long I stayed up with you in the middle of the night thinking your were buying the medicine and you never came back to let me know only to look at your birds...how disappointing c.hert


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

rusafa said:


> ive gotta look for it...i'll do it tmrw for sure is that an alternative for spartrix?


Metronidazole is another drug. Buy the lowest dosage possible as it is easier to divide. You will want to dose the babies individually. Still, the problem exists that you don't know the illness or illnesses. They may have canker and something else. For example, if the problem is salmonella, the metronidazole won't cure it. For that you will need Baytril or Albon. For this reason, top have a veterinarian do a fecal exam could pin point the problem and save you the loss of birds and money in the long run.
Again...a picture would be helpful.


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## YaSin11 (Jul 23, 2009)

Rufasa,
spartrix er local alternative..'Mertonid'..or 'Flagly'.._JEY KONO_ pharma has it..you can get it anywhere..cheap...
Jay3: I'm not really in the loop with 'vets' here, I'm not even aware of whom Rufasa has taken her birds to. {Dr. Siamak..?..Rufasa?} Quality reliable meds aren't readily available here for pigeons specifically,but the human alternative that can be used are there.As for stool analysis, I think it would be a far streach realistically speaking.
Rufasa, is it possible to separate the parents and the sick birds? You should do that. Also Apple cider Viniger in the water would be a good idea. Peace.YaSin

PS. C. Hert. Thanks alot for helping and supporting Rufasa thru all this. We here in Dhaka,Bangladesh are on a 12 hr time diff. I appreciate your staying up,concerned. Hopefully she has gotten the (easily available) pills by now


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Thanks Warren 11 maybe you can help Rusafa better than me and she will listen and understand better---Thanks for your help for Rusafa---I sure hope she gets that medicine because it is getting real serious now to be able to save the babies as well as the adults--pretty prevalent I believe but I don't know all I do know is 5 already died and trying to stop the coming deaths of the babies--Good luck to you Warren 11 and Krisna speed and bless you....c.hert


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## rusafa (Mar 14, 2009)

@warren-arrite i'll buy metronid/flagyl and let you knw tmrw!tell me what ratio i should feed the birds..nd instead of apple cide...is normal vinegar going to work against the virus?and i dont knw the doctors name..uni gulshan 2 te boshey...

@charis-i would have posted a pic if i could.wheneva i want to upload a pic some error message comes up...

@chert-i am really sorry c hert to keep you waiting and awake that long! i didnt realize you are actually going to do that.thatz really nice of you.i had assignments to do for the university so couldnt grab the net.now its 12.10a.m (midnight) in here.tmrw morning i am going to buy flagyl- this is easily available in our country! thanks for ur concern.appreciated


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Can you post the pictures on your faceBook page?


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## YaSin11 (Jul 23, 2009)

Rufasa,
Cool  'Flagyl' usually comes in 400mg tablets here, or 'Metronid' is in 500 mg tabs. The dosage will depend on the number of birds. Please try to isolate the affected pairs+babies. How do you give your birds water: Open/covered/common/separate? Grinding the tabs and mixing it in the drinking water is probably the easiest way, since squabs are still on crop milk. What error does it say when u try to upload pics? I only got a glance @ yr fcbk page, really nice variety of birds. Canker/pox can be caused by stress and overcrowding. Umm..I don't think regular vinegar will work, maybe some other members can add on that. But ACV is available, look around the Gulshan 2 Market. [Caution: if u add ACV/vinegar please dilute it, ratio can be found on posts here in Pt]
Hope things work out for you. Once this passes, you might consider giving all your birds some preventive medication, ['Metronid', etc, for 3 days], that way u can guard against any future probs. Nice too see some1 in Dhaka with a nice layout and lovely birds. Good luck, btw, amar na'm YaSin, 'Warren11' is my pigeon


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

*Bet he can do a fecal exam for you.*

*Here you go...*

CHAIRMAN : DR. MD. NAZMUL ALAM KHAN 
Permanent Address : Vill : Kurigram, P.o. : Ratanganj, Upajila : Narail Sadar, Dist. : Narail, Bangladesh. 


Present Address : 3/6, Gazetted Officer's Hostel, Green Road, Dhaka-1205, Bangladesh. 

Qualification : Got D.V.M. (Doctor of Veterinary Medicine), graduation from B.A.U (Bangladesh Agricultural University), Memensingh in the year 1977. Entered in the service under G.O.B. (Government of Bangladesh), as veterinary surgeon, B.C.S (Livestock) under Ministry of Fisheries & Livestock (MOFL) in the year 1977. Till now sevicng under G.O.B. At present posted at B.Q. Vaccine productionn section, Livestock Research Institute, Mohakhali, Dhaka-1212 as Senior Scientific Officer. 




Experience : Served in the field level from 1977 to 1990 as Vet. Surgeon & Thana Livestock Officer and gathered vast knowledge in the field of treatment, surgery, disease control of domestic animals, cage birds, managemnt of poultry & dairy farms etc. From 1990 to till now served in the Dhaka City at Central Veterinary Hospital, Mirpur Zoo, Dhaka, Dhaka City Corporation, Dhaka, and L.R.I Mohakhali, Dhaka. 

From here gathred vast knowledge in the field of treatment of pet animals, *cage birds*, *poultry *and dairy farm management etc. Especially very much interested in the treatment & surgery of dogs, cats, rabbits, *cage birds *etc. Established PET CARE in the year 1995 at Mohammadia Super Market, Sobhanbag, Dhaka then at Moghbazar and now at Green Road, Dhaka. 






My Object : Being a Veterinarian I am liable to give service to animals & birds of my country. It is also a demand of my country to me that my knowledge will help to solve any problem of animals & birds. That's why I tried to establish a Veterinary Clinic especially for pet animals and birds name PET CARE.


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## YaSin11 (Jul 23, 2009)

Charis,
Wow! Thanks! I had no idea! Not that I'm really into vets or anything, but it always helps to know. It's not that far from me, I'm gonna try to check it out an' post an update on 'Pet Care'. It's awesome to see PT members networking our resources  peace, YaSin.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

warren11 said:


> Charis,
> Wow! Thanks! I had no idea! Not that I'm really into vets or anything, but it always helps to know. It's not that far from me, I'm gonna try to check it out an' post an update on 'Pet Care'. It's awesome to see PT members networking our resources  peace, YaSin.



It's always good to have a vet for emergencies. Loosing 5 babies is an emergency as far as I'm concerned. I hope it turns out to be a good contact. If there is a way you can look for more veterinarians and post them, then we are far ahead for the next time someone in your city needs veterinary help. Peace to you too.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

sreeshs said:


> Bangladesh is the neighbouring country situated to the North East of India. Rusafa will need a passport and catch a flight to access help here.
> 
> We have a couple of members from Dhaka, Bangladesh. Yeasmin, Warren and a couple more. Have sent PM to them for help.


Thanks for the info. Screeshs. Also thanks for trying to get help.


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## rusafa (Mar 14, 2009)

@yasin- i had pouter too which in our country is called ball cock..anyway i got metronidazole 400 mg.i am going to divide it into 4 equals parts and feed it individually to the adult birds for 2 days.its the correct way right? oh and about the water thing,i give them water in 2 open bowls..and its a common one cause ive got about 20 pigeons (only) what is the ratio of water to metronid? if i mix the medicine in water in the morning...can i keep the bowl till evening throughout the whole day.is it good?

@charis- thanks for all the info uve collected! really it helped me a lot too...i have about 4 more baby squabs..and mashAllah they seem to be getting better and arent dying.i am trying my level best

@yasin-plz reply ASAP ..i dont wanna overdose them.overdosing a bird with chemicals can be harmful too...


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

If you do have canker in your loft, all the birds need to be treated. The pills don't mix well with water for that you need the liquid kind or the fine powder.
If you are going to treat individually, 100mg per bird may be too much. Do you have a way to weigh them ? 
Are the parents still feeding the babies? You don't want the babies to get too much medicine via parent feeding.


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## rusafa (Mar 14, 2009)

Charis said:


> If you do have canker in your loft, all the birds need to be treated. The pills don't mix well with water for that you need the liquid kind or the fine powder.
> If you are going to treat individually, 100mg per bird may be too much. Do you have a way to weigh them ?
> Are the parents still feeding the babies? You don't want the babies to get too much medicine via parent feeding.


charis right now i fed my pigeons the medicine metrinidazole.i was thinknig the same thing and so i divided a 400mg medicine into 8 parts that is i fed 50mg per adult bird.yes,the parents are still feeding the babies,and i fed the medicine to the babies only because the parents are free to roam around and they are flying all the time and i couldnt catch them! ehehe.i fed some of the adult birds who are sitting on their nests with eggs.i'll feed the rest of them in the evening when all the birds are gonna come to their homes.and i didnt mix the medicine in water,i grinded it,mixed with few drops of water,and spoonfed them like humans


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

Hope all gets well now. But I still recommend a diagnosis by a vet. Is the place Charis gave in his post far from your side ?


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## YaSin11 (Jul 23, 2009)

Rusafa,
I've read that 10mg per adult bird should be fine for canker treatment. It might be hard to cut the pills so small, thus I suggested grinding into powder. Anyway u can give it to them orally?..gently open their beaks and pop the pill fragment/powder in..give them water after? I'm gonna check again online for the ratio for mixing with water, *other PT members please add in*, open bowl should be fine, as long as you keep it clean, the med should not lose any effectivity during the day.Treatment is for 5 days, preventive is for 3, I'm rusty on the details, gonna cheak up, but it's imperative you start treatment.We can check the duration later. Who told you it was 100mg per bird? As Charis said, I think that might be a tad bit too much. 
'Only 20'..?..man thaz more than I have  [12+4eggs] Congrats on your new babies! 4! awesome! babies holey josh la'gey..watchin' them grow up is pure pleasure. I'ld like to see more of your pigeons, I just caught a glance. You seemed to have many different types..how are they togeather?..compatible?...do they fight too much?[fighting->stress->canker] I'm going back online to recheck the dosage..good stuff you got the pills..chin'ta koro nah,it'll be ok, hopefully some knowledgeable PT member can give the right dosage b4 me  peace, YaSin


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## rusafa (Mar 14, 2009)

@sreesh- oh yes its FAR FAR FAR away

@yasin- i see...errr i think someone posted a link to an australian pigeon sth,where 200 mg per adult pigeon was recommended...ami to oitar o half bolsi nd 50< khawaisi...nd chert even read on a book that 100mg per adult pigeon for 2 days is fine.anyway i amgoing to give then 10> mg per day for 5 days...and check whats going on.about the fighting...some of the male pigerons are really muscalr and strong...they need anger management classes.they wouldnt even let a new pigeon sit nearby the loft..ive got nothin to do abt that.i have some new prettier pigeons,i'll try to upload them..yasin i have a giribaz but it doesnt topple as it is supposed to.u knw how to train them :S?


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

*Metronidazole Dose ..*

Please Google metronidazole dose pigeon .. see what you get .. 10 mg per day is way too small of a dose .. you won't be helping anything. I would be giving in the 50 mg per day range for an adult ..

Name: Metronidazole (Flagyl) 
Description: Metronidazole is in the 5-nitro-imidazole family of compounds and has been shown to have significant antiprotozoal activity. 
Usage: Trichomoniasis. 
Adverse reactions: Over dosage can result in central nervous system signs and death. 
Dosage: 50 - 100 mg/bird daily for 4 - 6 days. 
Comments: Not commonly used due to poor solubility in water for flock treatment. 

The above is from this site: http://www.myrtlelofts.com/vet9.htm and is the recommendation from Dr. Gordon Chalmers.

Terry


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

When a dose is given in terms of *mg per day*, rather than *mg per kilo per day*, then it is for an average racing pigeon (400 - 500 gms). Do we know what sort of pigeons these are? The thread is in the Kings forum but I am not sure?

These are the instructions from Nooti's drug chart, the dose in the formulary was increased a couple of years ago (Pidgey has the updated one) but a lot of us use the old dose:

METRONIDAZOLE (Flagyl, Torgyl, Stormogyl)

Dose 20-50 mgs *per kilo BID *or 40-100mgs* per kilo OID (Once daily)- *14 days. 

In very rare cases, liver damage can be caused by prolonged use over 14 days - but it is very rare and one must balance the risks.
If maintained for 14 days or more it is highly effective against a severe infection of trichomonas gallinae and in preventing an inside recurrence- (not reinfection from an outside source, ie another bird).
Used for anaerobic, (flushing deep wounds), and protozoal infections. Can be given concurrently with Amoxy and Trim Sulphas.


My 2008 vet manual gives the following options:

40-50 *mg/kg *orally once a day for 5-7 days
OR 
100 *mg/kg *orally every 48 hours for 3 days
Or
200 *mg/kg *orally once.

This is from an e-mail I received from Pidgey in 2008, it explains why there are such variations in the recommended dosages:

_Their dosage...would be a 24 mg/kg, PO, BID. That's within the old formulary dosage of 10-30 mg/kg, PO, BID. It works as long as the Trichomonad variety isn't too virulent or hard to kill. Anymore, I usually use the larger dosages for once-per-day dosing. A lot of the formulary entries are based on write-ups that vets did in particular cases and studies trying to cure something that they see enough of to give it a try. Therefore, there's a lot more variance than you'd think. Sometimes, a given write-up might have been based on a case so bad that the vet in question simply felt that either an experimentally high dose or death were the only options. _


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## M Kurps (Mar 19, 2009)

To bad he couldn't just get Ridzol (ronidazole 10%), 1 teaspoon per gallon of drinking water for 5 days. That simple.
Kurps


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

M Kurps said:


> To bad he couldn't just get Ridzol (ronidazole 10%), 1 teaspoon per gallon of drinking water for 5 days. That simple.
> Kurps


That's what I use for flock maintenance - YES much easier! And ronidazole works very quickly. I got mine at Foy's Pigeon Supply.
When I have to treat an individual bird, I use metronidazole. I have 250 mg tablets. I quarter them (62.5mg) per bird, once a day for 5 days.
Metronidazole is NOT water soluble. Ronidazole IS water soluble.


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Spam??????????????????????/


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Msfreebird said:


> That's what I use for flock maintenance - YES much easier! And ronidazole works very quickly. I got mine at Foy's Pigeon Supply.
> When I have to treat an individual bird, I use metronidazole. I have 250 mg tablets. I quarter them (62.5mg) per bird, once a day for 5 days.
> Metronidazole is NOT water soluble. Ronidazole IS water soluble.


Foy's now sells the liquid Metronidazole or Flagyl to mix in the water.


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