# Is this Canker?



## bellabona (Jan 30, 2016)

Hello guys, Ive been lurking here for a while, and decided to register to get some answers about a squab a rescued 5 days ago. The first thing I noticed was the lack of feathers under the wings and the chin, I thought it was normal for a squab his age (it has like 30 some days) but today I noticed something near his peak. images:

http://imgur.com/a/WKihF

Could this be Canker? what should I do?


----------



## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Canker nodules develop internally.

An external growth like that is most likely to be avian pox, which develops on unfeathered or sparsely feathered parts around the beak or on legs. Being viral, no direct treatment for that and recovery occurs over time.

It can also develop inside the mouth, toward front of beak initially, so check there too.

Could get it from another pigeon, or from mosquito bites.


----------



## bellabona (Jan 30, 2016)

thank you for you reply!
I have another question, it is normal for him to have no feathers under his chin? 
More pics:
http://imgur.com/a/bLD2u

I dont know anything about pigeons and Im so worried 
Thank you in advanced


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

No, it isn't normal to be so lacking in feathers under the chin, when he has as many feathers as he does. It does look as though he may have canker. Can you take a flashlight and look way down his throat? See if he has anything cheesy looking down there. Although you can't always see canker in the throat. Can you get Metronidazole?


----------



## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Just so we don't confuse it, bellabona, Jay3 is also correct. It is quite feasible that a sick bird may have both pox and, internally, canker. Canker can easily develop as a consequence of the stress caused by another illness.


----------



## bellabona (Jan 30, 2016)

Thank you guys.
Since I rescued him and Im planning to free him, I never touch him, so im going to try my best looking down his throat. Metronidazole, I dont have and, if im not mistaken, you need formula to buy it, here where I live. Im going to visit a vet today to see how I can help this little guy 
(sorry for my bad english )


----------



## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Don't hand him over if there's any mention of putting him to sleep. Some vets are just not interested in sick pigeons.Hope your's is OK.


----------



## bellabona (Jan 30, 2016)

thanks for the advice, I was thinking on going alone, without the pigeon, just to ask if they can come over, I dont want to stress him with the moving.
The pigeon seems happy, poops seem normal, he's stretching his wings a lot, like he's getting prepared to fly. He's so cute and smart, never thought pigeons could be that intelligent and affectionate.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I would call first and see if they will look at a pigeon. Tell them it is your pet. 
I doubt that they will give you any meds without first seeing the bird. You can buy it online at pigeon supplies.


----------



## bellabona (Jan 30, 2016)

I went to the vet, she works in a facility where they help birds of all kinds. She said the best thing I could do for now is to give him "Inmunair", it is something to boost defences. And, she gave me her phone to get an appointment if things don't get better. Also she said I had to help him cleaning his feathers, since its too young to do it by himself. I will update if something new happens. thank you guys!!


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

What I could find on this_ Inmunair_. For others who are wondering what it is.

indicated to counter immune system suppression in intensively reared poultry,
https://www.agra-net.com/agra/animal-pharm/calier-s-inmunair-17.5-in-spain--1.htm


ORIES SA
CALIER LABORATORIES S.A - INMUNAIR
Price and Availability
INMUNAIR:
Oral / Biological Suspension
Inactivated cells of Propionibacterium acnes 0.17 mg
E.coli lipopolysaccharide from 0.05 mg

INDICATIONS:
Improves the immune status of birds vaccinated against Marek's disease. Increases the protection of birds vaccinated against infectious bursal disease. Reduces injuries caused by infectious bursal disease virus. It is recommended in critical periods of the productive life of the birds, when they are under stress and are more susceptible to infectious diseases. Reduces mortality, clinical symptoms and / or lesions caused by the virus of Marek's disease. Reduce injuries and deterioration of zootechnical parameters produced by Mucoplasma gallisepticum.

PROPERTIES:
E.coli lipopolysaccharide activated macrophages, induces proliferative response of B cells and their differentiation into antibody-producing plasma cells. Propionibacterium possesses the ability to induce cellular immunity by stimulating cytokine production.

Contraindications
There have been described.

POSOLOGY:
The administration will depend on the vaccination program and the particular situation of each holding:
Broilers and pullets: 0,5-1ml / 10 kg bw / day for the first three days of life, after they have been vaccinated or transported.
Third week of life: When the passive immunity is reduced, are vaccinated and undergo dietary changes.
Chickens (layers and breeders) 0,5-1ml / 10 kg bw / day for 3 days, between 10 and 12 weeks of age (when you start rearing) and repeat between 18-23 weeks of age (coinciding with the start of the set). 
https://translate.google.com/transl.../laboratorios-calier-s.a/inmunair&prev=search


----------



## bellabona (Jan 30, 2016)

the vet is going to visit us tomorrow, I'll keep you updated


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

And why is it that the vet wouldn't give you a medication for canker, rather than just something to build his immune system?
Did you suggest to the vet that it was likely canker? Boosting the immune system to protect a bird from getting something is one thing. If he actually comes down with something, then I would rather give a med to get rid of it.


----------



## bellabona (Jan 30, 2016)

She said she didnt want to medicate something else without seeing the pigeon, thats why we have an appointment tomorrow


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

We've seen several birds like that here--some have survived and some haven't. Their feathers won't grow if there's an underlying inflammatory response (inflammation) in the area. You can search this site for the term "alopecia" and see some of the threads.

Are those little scab-looking things on the side of the base of his beak stuck-on food or actual scabs?

Pidgey


----------



## bellabona (Jan 30, 2016)

Im not sure they are scabs, one yellow thing he his near his eye left eye, just fell off, is not there anymore.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

They looked like dried up food to me.
Did you get him to the vet today. I think Metro will help.


----------



## bellabona (Jan 30, 2016)

3 pm Here, and the vet arrives at 5, so I have to wait 2 more hours.
I only feed him seeds and water, is it possible that those yellow things where dry food? never give him liquid Or soft food


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

No then, don't think it was food.
They do need grit also. Important for digestion. And calcium and D3 supplement, also important.


----------



## bellabona (Jan 30, 2016)

the vet said the yellow things were scabs.
She opened his beak and saw nothing, it was normal.
I ask her about the lack of feathers and she said he had low inmune system, cause he fly off the nest too soon, and her mother couldn't feed him for some time. But being feral it was normal for him to have trichomones, as a carrier and due to low inmune system developed the disease.
I am confused cause she said he was sane, he "overcome it", I mean, he still a carrier, but not sick 
hope my english it not confusing lol
So, now, I have to give him Inmunair for one week, and then, the next week Ornivit.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Ferals don't have canker any more than domestic pigeons. Most pigeons do carry Trichomonads in their system and it doesn't bother them. But if they get under stress for any reason, like a sickness or stressful situation, then the level of Trichs can rise and will cause canker. If they do come down with canker, they really should be treated for it, if not they can die. When you treat for canker, you knock the Trichomona count back down to where they should be. 
I would still treat for canker. You can buy Metronidazole online, so I would imagine that you could there as well.


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Metronidazole, by the way, is a human-use anti-protozoal and can often be gotten at regular pharmacies.

Pidgey


----------



## bellabona (Jan 30, 2016)

guys, do you think it could be something else? the only symptom he has is the lack of feathers, and I can see he is growing some under the chin, the metronidazole can cause side effects if I give it to him and he doesn't have cankers?


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

No. It won't hurt him. 
Okay then, wait and see if all the feathers come back in. Or if he appears to be getting sick. If so, then treat for canker. If not, then he is getting better. Can you keep us updated with pics?


----------



## bellabona (Jan 30, 2016)

yeah, sure! he is sleeping right now, I will take photos tomorrow in the morning


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Metronidazole is one of the safest and most well-tolerated medications that we give them, actually. Some species of trichomonad will kill virtually every bird that gets infected with them; and others won't kill any. And, conversely, some individual birds will be killed by all species and some will resist almost any. It is true that we don't KNOW for a fact that the inhibited feather growth is caused by them, but we have seen it several times on here over the years. Several of them eventually sickened and died, many appeared to respond to the Metronidazole and lived (with normal feather growth occurring soon thereafter). So... what we're suggesting is that STATISTICALLY... it's just a good idea. 

One can know a lot more if one does some labwork by actually swabbing the inside of the beak and throat and then looking at the sample on a slide under a microscope. And if that isn't an option, then we usually just err to the side of caution. It's not the world's worst idea just to acquire the medication and have it on hand if things start going bad rather than trying to acquire it in an emergency situation on the beginning of a weekend (we've seen THAT a lot, too... ).

Pidgey


----------



## bellabona (Jan 30, 2016)

here are some pics from this morning, today I started the treatment with Inmunair. He has lost some scabs:
http://imgur.com/a/Af3GH


----------



## bellabona (Jan 30, 2016)

*Update!*

So, its been a while! I think its time for an update!
My little pigeon has almost all his feathers back,and I think is ready for release.
On February 18th, I opened my balcony, and decided to put some food and water there, so he could get used to find his food there. 
He was curious enough to fly off the balcony to the roof of the house. He hang there I think for 4 hours. There, I saw him interacting with two adult pigeons that were indifferent to him. I think one of those pigeons could be one of his parents, since I find my squab down the balcony so I know the parents hang around. After 2pm I lost track of him  I thought he would return to the balcony to get food but he didn't. 
Next morning I was looking for him since 6 am, It was not until 9 am (same hour I released him the day before) he appeared in the balcony  So now I know he can come back. But, the only thing that make me worry is that, he decided to enter to my house again, and now he seems he doesn't want to go out anymore, he seems scared 
Guys! what should I do? should I open my balcony and wait until he gets confident again? Or should I put him in a cage, go down to the nearest park or to the garden house, attract a flock with food and make him observe until he wants to join them? Im lost here. I don't want to have him indoors anymore since he seems ready, he is scared of me and is healthy and strong
Help please


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Your house is all he knows. That's home to him. Probably had a hard time out there and wants to be where he feels safe. I would keep giving him opportunities to go out, and let him leave when he feels safe. Just putting him out, and he isn't ready, he probably will not survive. When he does finally leave and stay out longer and longer, I would continue to leave feed and water on the balcony for him in case he needs that as he adjusts to living on his own. He has lots to learn before he will be able to get along outside, and will need help. He may eventually find a mate and join a flock, but till then, he isn't safe out there alone.


----------



## bellabona (Jan 30, 2016)

yeah, you are right. I want to buy a bird house and put it in the balcony. 

He was hanging in the balcony 15 mins ago. Some doves arrive to the balcony too, they have a nest just above it. I guess they were attracted to the food. Something weird happen, my pigeon wanted to get close to one of the doves, and he kept trembling. Ive heard they do that when they feel attracted to another pigeon, right? Is it possible? with a dove? I put a image link of what I consider a dove, since Im not native english speaker, I want to make sure you know what kind of bird im referring to:

http://www.fotosaves.com.ar/Columbiformes/A_TorcazaComun_600.jpg


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Thank you for the link. Thought it was a pigeon. It is an actual dove.
He is probably shaking because he either wants to be fed, or is nervous.
I would just go slow and let him leave when he is ready. Otherwise he will not survive.


----------



## bellabona (Jan 30, 2016)

lol, I thought he was being attracted to another specie and I was worried, but I guess my pigeon is too young to think about such a thing lol. Ive heard it is possible to create a pigeon/dove hybrid.

Im going to do what you said, I think is the best option, I will keep you update. thank you so much!


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Thanks. Let us know how it's going.


----------



## bellabona (Jan 30, 2016)

ok, so the day I made the last post, the pigeon flew away through a window and spent the night outside. Sunday morning, lets say 6 am, I saw the pigeon through my window hanging out with other two pigeons, everything seems good, they were eating together, then they flew to a tree a block away from my house. Everything cool, I thought, then like 2-3 hours later, can't remember exactly, the pigeon arrive to the balcony to eat. In front of the balcony, theres a tree, and that day I noticed a blackbird was hanging there a lot scaring away other birds. So, the blackbird saw my pigeon and decided to attack 
The pigeon flew away so scared that didn't know where to land and hit a wall
So, I ran to see if it was hurt, to my relieve it wasn't that bad, but the pigeon was so scared, it didn't want to get back to the balcony and was hurt enough to not fly high. Later that day, I saw the pigeon with some other pigeons, like six of them. Two different males approach to "her' and start singing and dancing, so I assume, my little birdie is a she! I try to lure her near my house but I could see she was so scared to go back. To make things worst it started to rain, it was late, she was getting so wet  I don't know how I manage to capture her and put her in my home, safe.
Now she's been recovering, but, I don't want to open the balcony for her again since I can see the blackbird in the tree. I bought a cage to make the soft release process. So, here the thing, of course she doesn't want to enter the cage, How can i lure her? theres a park one block from my house that seems pretty safe with a lot of pigeons to do the process there. Any tips!?
thanks!


----------



## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Is it a blackbird or a crow? Crows will go after pigeons but usually move off. Thank you for caring enough to rescue the poor pigeon. Hopefully she will recover soon. Will she go into the cage for food? You may have to wait until,dark to catch her to,get her into the cage while she is recovering.


----------



## bellabona (Jan 30, 2016)

It is a blackbird, here is a link with a photo of the bird Im talking about 
http://aves.quito.com.ec/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/GreatThrushM1_Bogota_Abr07.jpg
I think the blackbird has a nest on the tree

I tried to lure her into the cage with food, but she didn't fell for it, maybe cause the cage is a new element that she never saw before? don't know.
I have a question, If I can capture her into the cage, should I let her there for the next two weeks, I mean she have to be in the cage always, during the soft release process? or I can let her hang in my house, I ask basically because she love to fly around the house a lot, and she have some spots she really enjoy.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You don't keep her in the cage. Only when you take her to the park. The night before going to the park, just turn off the lights and pick her up and put her in the cage.

The bird in that picture doesn't look like something that would go after a pigeon. How large is it?


----------



## bellabona (Jan 30, 2016)

Thanks for the advice Jay,Im going to do that. 
That type of bird is well known in the city I live for being very territorial, we call it "Mirlo', Ive seen it attacking doves also. It is not a rough attack though. He only chases the birds that cross his territory and try to bite them in the tail. So is not that awful but my little pigeon is still unexperienced so, she didn't take it well and ended up hitting the wall.


----------



## bellabona (Jan 30, 2016)

UPDATE

So, today we had our first trip to the park  It wasn't easy because she wanted to escape the cage to join the flock. I didn't let het cause she doesn't try to fly when the others pigeons fly, yet. 
The thing is, she so smart, right now, 6;00 pm here, she decided to sleep in a really high place, where we cant grab her. I guess she suspect we are going to put her in the cage, I don't know. , and of course she doesn't like that.

My question is, since I think, today is going to be very difficult to put her in the cage: Can I do the soft release process taking her out every other day? Im planning to spent 2 weeks, or more if she's nor ready, but I don't know if I have to take her to the release location every single day  ?


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

That's what they do. They by instinct, will take a high roosting spot. In nature this is usually the safest place to be where predators cannot get you.


----------



## bellabona (Jan 30, 2016)

Yeah, I know, I just found it weird since she has a resting spot near my bead, wich is hight, but not that high. She always sleep there. 
My question is, Can I skip days on the process of soft release? today she's not going to get out, of course I will put her in by the sunset. Is ok to do that?


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes, you can skip days. But you also have to remember that by doing the soft release, you are increasing her chances of survival, but not guaranteeing it. A baby pigeon that is hand reared has much less chance of being able to adapt to living in the wild. It has never had the parenting to teach it many of the things that it needs to know, and even the flock experience of learning how and where to find food, how to be part of a flock, how to avoid predators. Some will be able to learn and make it, but many don't. So you are taking a chance. The flock also has to accept her, and a new bird in a flock can have a rough time.


----------



## bellabona (Jan 30, 2016)

I am aware of that, I just want to do what I think could be the best for the pigeon.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The best for the pigeon would be living in a flock of someone who keeps them in a loft, but that probably isn't possible for you to find. I hope he or she does well.


----------

