# I just Dont get It!!!!



## Max1170 (Jun 13, 2007)

A Hen I own died this morning. She was fine last night and eating great. I woke up this morning and she was dead. Now I come home and find a perfectly healthy cock acting the same way, I give up! I give these birds the best of everything. A+ feed,vitamins, electrolyte...etc. I never take a bird in without quarantining him first... Can someone please tell me what more I can do.....I stopped flying because I don’t believe in their ways and lost 300 to boot.... Everytime a bird dies It feels like a lost a pet.......Max


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

It's going around...
hhtp://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f6/help-seriously-needed-29830.html


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

do you think any critter like a mouse or rat or snake can get in your loft? there is alot of things that they can get but sometimes the only way to really find out what it is is to take the bird for autopsy. some molds are in feed that is not stored right and the feed looks good but the mold is within the center or the grain and if the mold attacks the internal organs it could cause sudden death at it's worst.....just an idea..do you remember any thing strange about their droppings?


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## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

Max1170,

I am so sorry to hear of your birds dying. I know what you are describing when you say it feels like loosing a pet. That is because that is just what is happening and it feels horrible.

I don't know what is causing this. I have been in touch with several people who have had the same thing, as well as PT people who are describing birds that look and act perfectly healthy, good appetites, good loft hygiene, but they find them dead overnight or within a day or two. There is no way to tell other than to have an autopsy done. Some states or counties will do this for a reasonable fee as they like to track any suspicious bird disease. I would suspect West Nile virus from the sudden onset, except it doesn't affect pigeons much. But they can get it now and again. It is mostly crows and jays, birds in the corvid family that really are succeptible. 

Margaret


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## Max1170 (Jun 13, 2007)

spirit wings said:


> do you think any critter like a mouse or rat or snake can get in your loft? there is alot of things that they can get but sometimes the only way to really find out what it is is to take the bird for autopsy. some molds are in feed that is not stored right and the feed looks good but the mold is within the center or the grain and if the mold attacks the internal organs it could cause sudden death at it's worst.....just an idea..do you remember any thing strange about their droppings?


Everything seemed fine with them...so I never looked at their dropping. I am wondering If It is the grit!! When it gets wet from humidity... I dry it out and reuse it...Max


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## Max1170 (Jun 13, 2007)

Margarret said:


> Max1170,
> 
> I am so sorry to hear of your birds dying. I know what you are describing when you say it feels like loosing a pet. That is because that is just what is happening and it feels horrible.
> 
> ...


Thanks Margaret, I look at them as my pets not just pigeons thats why I quit flying them at my club.........


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Max1170 said:


> Everything seemed fine with them...so I never looked at their dropping. I am wondering If It is the grit!! When it gets wet from humidity... I dry it out and reuse it...Max


I would say mold in the feed before the grit but I would just not reuse the grit and give new daily when it is humid out. also possible viral infection...keep an eye on the droppings of the rest of the birds and report that to the vet and if another one dies take it to get autopsy.....wish I had a answer for you but as you know it is not a simple thing, only guesses....also make sure mice or rats can't get in they carry diseases.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Max1170 said:


> Everything seemed fine with them...so I never looked at their dropping. I am wondering If It is the grit!! When it gets wet from humidity... I dry it out and reuse it...Max


Max...TheSnipes lost seveal pigeons to contaminated grit last fall. It's best to put grit out in small amounts and keep the bag in a protected container.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi max, 



What does the image of some guy in a baseball cap shooting the Armalite or whatever it is, have to do with any of this?


It really is a confusing thing to insert unless it is supposed to be germain to something.




Phil
l v


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## Max1170 (Jun 13, 2007)

Charis said:


> Max...TheSnipes lost seveal pigeons to contaminated grit last fall. It's best to put grit out in small amounts and keep the bag in a protected container.


The reason why i said grit is...I checked her crop to see If it was full and the only thing I could feel was grit......I went out and took the grit away from them....These Birds are going to kill me


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

pdpbison said:


> Hi max,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Phil, I'd bet that it's his automatic signature.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, this is mouse-moving-in season so you could be looking at a Paratyphoid outbreak.

Pidgey


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Oye...could be any of endless things...


Grit which gets wind blown dusts on it, then gets 'wet'...can support 'spores' of all sorts of bad fungi, molds, possibly Botulism, and so on...


A Crop-full-of-grit, is an odd thing to encounter...


I have seen it a few times with fledglings who got enthusiastic or confused, and or for whatever reason, stuffed themsleves FULL of Grit, and it took DAYS to pass...



Hard enough to keep a good Eye on everyone even when one lives with them literally in the same rooms where one lives, let alone, when the Birds are outdoors...


Phil
l v


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

pdpbison said:


> Hi max,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ya know Phil, some people have pics of dogs or cats or, or guns,or whatever as their avatars. What do they have to do with anything? It seems we should be able to use what ever pic we want to.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Max, I'm so sorry about all this. I know how much your birds mean to you. I hope you figure it out soon.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Max...I think you need to take one in to a vet for an exam and fecal. Maybe collect some poop from assorted flock members and take it in as a single unit.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

How often should the grit be changed, if it is clean and dry?


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Jay3 said:


> Ya know Phil, some people have pics of dogs or cats or, or guns,or whatever as their avatars. What do they have to do with anything? It seems we should be able to use what ever pic we want to.



While I understand what you are saying, Jay3, I, personally do not feel that a man with a gun has a place on this site...just mpo...

Shi


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## Max1170 (Jun 13, 2007)

pdpbison said:


> Hi max,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well Phil, That guy with the Hat would be me and I am very proud of that picture. It is me firing my L2A2 that I built myself. I went to visit a friend in MN, and we ripped some rounds through. It took me years to find those parts. I have been building guns since I was 20 yrs old. I collect pre and post military weapons. Anything else you would like to know about me??? Does this have anything to do with my pets dying?? ......Max


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## Max1170 (Jun 13, 2007)

mr squeaks said:


> While I understand what you are saying, Jay3, I, personally do not feel that a man with a gun has a place on this site...just mpo...
> 
> Shi


Do you think that all gun owners kill for fun? I will take it off if it bothers you that much..........Max


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## Pete Jasinski (Jan 2, 2005)

I kinda actually liked the pic  Don't worry all I'll take mine down too.


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## Max1170 (Jun 13, 2007)

To all you anti gun people its gone......Sorry If I have offended you with my gun picture.......Now can we get back to my birds??


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

mr squeaks said:


> While I understand what you are saying, Jay3, I, personally do not feel that a man with a gun has a place on this site...just mpo...
> 
> Shi


Why not? Maybe guns are his hobby. That doesn't mean he goes around killing things. It's just the picture that you conjure up when you see the photo. I think people are making an issue over something that really is irrelevant. I think the important thing here is the problem he is having with his birds. Let's not nit pick over a picture. I think we should all be focusing on his problem. I just think that we should work together here, and not fault find with each other.


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## Max1170 (Jun 13, 2007)

Pete Jasinski said:


> I kinda actually liked the pic  Don't worry all I'll take mine down too.



WoW, a 1919... I built one of those too.....lol Max


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## Max1170 (Jun 13, 2007)

Jay3 said:


> Why not? Maybe guns are his hobby. That doesn't mean he goes around killing things. It's just the picture that you conjure up when you see the photo. I think people are making an issue over something that really is irrelevant. I think the important thing here is the problem he is having with his birds. Let's not nit pick over a picture. I think we should all be focusing on his problem. I just think that we should work together here, and not fault find with each other.



Jay, your the best!!!


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## Pete Jasinski (Jan 2, 2005)

Max1170 said:


> WoW, a 1919... I built one of those too.....lol Max


They're tons of fun to play with! More power to ya, I bought mine, I don't have the time or patience to build.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Max, you're not so bad yourself. I'm glad to call you my friend.


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## Max1170 (Jun 13, 2007)

Pete Jasinski said:


> They're tons of fun to play with! More power to ya, I bought mine, I don't have the time or patience to build.


Mine is a 308


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## Pete Jasinski (Jan 2, 2005)

Max1170 said:


> Mine is a 308


Mine too, it's a lot cheaper to feed that way!


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## Max1170 (Jun 13, 2007)

Pete Jasinski said:


> Mine too, it's a lot cheaper to feed!


Lol, very true. I better stop talking about guns on a pigeon forum.........It was nice talking to you Pete.....Max


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## Pete Jasinski (Jan 2, 2005)

Max1170 said:


> Lol, very true. I better stop talking about guns on a pigeon forum.........It was nice talking to you Pete.....Max


Same here! I'm gonna change my pic before more feathers are ruffled. Take care Max


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Max, have you ever seen mice or any sign of them in your loft?

Pidgey


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Oops...did not mean to start anything. NOTHING against Max - just against the signature picture. AND, there was nothing wrong with his picture. Just to let all know that I have nothing against guns per se. I like them personally and was on the rifle team in college. Unfortunately, to see someone pointing a gun on this site, for whatever benign reason, just bothers me, because of the connotaton...hope I have cleared up my former posting. 

Now that that's clear, hopefully, back to your pigeon, Max....WISHING ALL THE BEST FOR YOUR PIGEON! 

Shi


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Max1170 said:


> Well Phil, That guy with the Hat would be me and I am very proud of that picture. It is me firing my L2A2 that I built myself. I went to visit a friend in MN, and we ripped some rounds through. It took me years to find those parts. I have been building guns since I was 20 yrs old. I collect pre and post military weapons. Anything else you would like to know about me???




Hi Max, 



Well, you could probably help me with some projects I have been wanting to do..!


Those are definitely good skills and know-hows to have.


At first, I thought it was an image of someone Shooting Pigeons with some 'NATO' rifle or other.


If it were a Thread about Guns ( fine with me, ) then, we could share pictures of ourselves holding or firing or pointing our favorite Firearms.



If the Thread is about Pigeons, then, it seems out of place, and, to some extent, confusing.


Anything more than one's little, upper-left 'Avitar' really, does not work well in this format, since it confuses what the Post is about visually, and one has to then re-group to deal with it.




> Does this have anything to do with my pets dying?? ......Max



Exactly...your Posts graphically, seem to be about how you have a gun...and, as an afterhought or incidental, there is something added, which is about Pigeons.


That's what it "looks" like, hence, my asking...


We all have things we are proud of...and, posting images of them as a signature identity or whatever, would not be smooth or complimentary to the Topics.

When an image apears in a Post, it has always been because it relates to what the Post is about, or is showing what the Post is about.



Not trying to hassle you, just wanting to understand, and, wanting you to understand.


With respect, totally, even if I am a little casual or blunt...


The image just does not 'work' in this context...even if it is a totally cool image with real meaning and substance.





Phil
l v


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## Max1170 (Jun 13, 2007)

Pidgey said:


> Max, have you ever seen mice or any sign of them in your loft?
> 
> Pidgey


I have neven seen one. I am going to shoot them with Sel Bac. Is It ok to do It now?..... Thanks Pidgey!


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Sure it's okay. That's one that you use basically every six months:

http://www.drugs.com/vet/sal-bac.html

Pidgey


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## Max1170 (Jun 13, 2007)

pdpbison said:


> Hi Max,
> 
> At first, I thought it was an image of someone Shooting Pigeons with some 'NATO' rifle or other.
> l v


Phil, How many pigeons did you see in that picture? Why would you assume that I was shooting pigeons? I could have been shooting deer, bear, people, etc...... I am an animal Nut!!!!! I could not hurt a Fly...So please lets just stop this right now I am starting to get tired of it..... I have about 100,000 into my gun collection and once in awhile I like to firer one on them and that’s why I took that picture......Max


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Max, I'm really sorry your thread has gone sideways. I believe you wouldn't hurt a fly. Please, let's go back to helping your birds.


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## EgypSwiftLady (Jan 14, 2008)

Max1170 said:


> I have neven seen one. I am going to shoot them with Sel Bac. Is It ok to do It now?..... Thanks Pidgey!



Hello Max Back to your problem.... just because you don't see mice doesn't mean they aren't there. I try to feed in the morning and pull ALL feed at early evening. 
If your grit gets wet throw it out! Don't reuse it, its not worth the chance of dead pigeons or vet bills.
Do you keep your feed in sealed containers? No moisture, bugs or mice getting to it? I keep all the feed here in large metal garbage cans, the lids fit very tight.
Is your loft dry and out of any strong breezes or winds? 
Can wild birds contaminate food or water dishes?

Just some thoughts, hope it helps.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Max1170 said:


> Phil, How many pigeons did you see in that picture? Why would you assume that I was shooting pigeons? I could have been shooting deer, bear, people, etc...... I am an animal Nut!!!!! I could not hurt a Fly...
> 
> *So *please lets just stop this right now I am starting to get tired of it*.....
> 
> I have about 100,000 into my gun collection and once in awhile I like to firer one on them and that’s why I took that picture......Max


Hi Max, first & foremost, I am so sorry to hear about your birds. 
I hope you are able to get a handle on what's going on very soon.

* With regard to your picture, I, personally saw nothing wrong with it. 
I'm truly sorry the importance of your thread was distracted by negative questions & comments that should have been dealt with via a pm, email or perhaps not been brought up in the first place. 

Your birds _*are*_ or at least _*should be*_ top priority here. 

Best wishes to you & your sweet pijjies. 

Cindy


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## Max1170 (Jun 13, 2007)

Its people like Charis, EgySwiftlady, Jay3 and AZwhiteFeather that make this site a pleasure to belong to..thank you!!! Max


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Max1170 said:


> Its people like Charis, EgySwiftlady, Jay3 and AZwhiteFeather that make this site a pleasure to belong to..thank you!!! Max


Thank you , Max.

How are things going this morning?

Cindy


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## Max1170 (Jun 13, 2007)

AZWhitefeather said:


> Thank you , Max.
> 
> How are things going this morning?
> 
> Cindy


Things are looking good so far... I had my mom say some prayers for my birds last night and I think it worked. Thank you for asking Max


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Let us know how the vet visit goes today, Max. Thanks for the nice compliment.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Thanks for the update, Max. Glad to hear things are improving. 

Is that your son? What a little cutie. 

Cindy


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## Max1170 (Jun 13, 2007)

Charis said:


> Let us know how the vet visit goes today, Max. Thanks for the nice compliment.


Sure will.....Max


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## Max1170 (Jun 13, 2007)

AZWhitefeather said:


> Thanks for the update, Max. Glad to hear things are improving.
> 
> Is that your son? What a little cutie.
> 
> Cindy


Yes, thats my son Max Jr. My first born holding my first born......Max


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

AZWhitefeather said:


> Is that your son? What a little cutie.
> 
> Cindy





Max1170 said:


> Yes, thats my son Max Jr. *My first born holding my first born*......Max




That's a beautiful bird.

Cindy


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## EgypSwiftLady (Jan 14, 2008)

Max1170 said:


> Its people like Charis, EgySwiftlady, Jay3 and AZwhiteFeather that make this site a pleasure to belong to..thank you!!! Max



You are welcome I hope everything is OK with your birds, I'm really curious to hear what the vet has to say.


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