# Help! I Have Babies!



## docbjb

I have babies! Of the three eggs in the nest, two have hatched!!

When I got home from work today, the father was on the nest and I found an eggshell at some remove. I checked and there was one egg and one baby in the nest.

But I had three eggs! Checking, I found that there was another baby who appeared to have been thrown out of the nest? It is smaller than the other, and was lying on the seed tray. I thought it was dead, and then it moved! I put it back in the nest using rubber gloves (mom and dad flew off but are now back).

Have they left this baby for dead? Do they throw babies out of the nest?

Here is a pic of the two (the little reject is on the right). 

I am so excited! I feel so blessed!


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## Skyeking

Congratulations on the babies.

Pigeons only lay two eggs, that has been my experience with my birds, the third egg may have been dropped in the nest. 

You need to make sure this tiny baby is fed, as it is much smaller then the other, and the competition for him to get food with the bigger baby will be hard, as well as he will weaken and not be able to lift his head to be fed by mom and dad. 

Do you have any other parents with a baby this age? Perhaps you can give the bigger baby to surrogate parents, as this little one needs one on one attention for a few days. Why is the wing in such an odd display?

Please keep a close eye on the tiny baby and make sure it is being fed.


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## docbjb

Thank you, Treesa...I have NO experience with pigeons, having just found a nest on my balcony and becoming determined to fight for my birds against the neighborhood Avitrol threat. I feel very helpless. There have been three eggs in the nest for some time, and these first two hatched today. I don't know anything other than I found this baby a way away from the nest and the shell from this baby thrown to the edge of the balcony. I don't know what to think. I put the smaller baby back in the nest and the mother has returned and is now sitting on both babies. 

How can I help this smaller one to survive? I will do what I can. I am dealing with the two parent pigeons and two babies, plus one unhatched egg. Most of the other pigeons in the area have succumbed to the Avitrol...mine didn't because I kept them fairly confined and fed and watered them. I don't know what to do to help this baby. I am in MN and I can't find another pigeon person or surrogate parents, so I feel as if I am pretty much on my own.

Could the smaller baby have been thrown aside because the parents do not feel it is viable?


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## Reti

docbjb said:


> Could the smaller baby have been thrown aside because the parents do not feel it is viable?



They do that and if that is the case there is nothing you can do anything about it, since the baby is so small and you have no vets in the area.
As Treesa mentioned, keep an eye on him and make sure he is being fed.

BTW, congratulations on the babies. It is a blessing to watch them grow.

Reti


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## docbjb

The University of MN has a wildlife rehabilitation center I could take the baby to if I need to. Please tell me how I can make certain baby is being fed...is there any way to tell?

I am thinking the baby will be lucky to survive the night, and if s/he does, I will take him/her to the rehab clinic tomorrow if necessary. Should I leave the little one with the mother tonight and check on it tomorrow morning, or should I do something yet this evening?

Any ideas why the egg shell would be so far from the nest? Could a crow have gotten after it?

The third egg, if it hatches, should do so soon. I know it is rare for a pigeon to have three eggs in the nest, but there are definitely three...or *were* definitely three there. 

Thank you for your help. Please send prayers for my little bird!


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## MellissaG

When my baby pigeons were born, one was much smaller than its sibling as well. It didnt get thrown out of the nest, as they were inside a box on its side for the most part -- no where to be 'thrown'.. it stayed significantly smaller compared to its sibling for almost two weeks, until the feathers started developing..now it's pretty much caught up, but I can still tell them apart by size... maybe some are just runts, I guess 


Im no bird expert, but I have rescued lost babies before... finches, usually, and I always used a syringe of some sort to feed them -- but I found this last night,( urbanwildlifesociety.org/WLR/BabyPij&DuvFeedg.htm ) which I tried while bringing in my baby pigeons from the rain -- and it worked really well! My suggestion would be to keep this on hand with some baby bird formula, and while the parents are out .. go try and give him a slurp. I'd agree with 'keeping an eye' on him to make sure the parents are feeding him, but with a new born I cant imagine him going too long without being fed..before you notice...before it's too late, ya know? I cant see it hurting anything, giving him a snack here and there ....?

The runt might be a smaller size because it hatched last, as the older one probably already begun feednig and such -- it will be the same situation with the 3rd egg when it does hatch, as it will have TWO (when it is usually one) older siblings to fight for food with, .. so you will probably have to use the method on the link I gave you to intervene to keep all 3 of them healthy, regardless. 

id wait a couple of days with this before taking to a rehab center, though.....


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## flitsnowzoom

*Congratulations!!!*

I'm so excited for you and the little family.  

I'll keep my fingers crossed as well for both babies and mom and dad. Now more than ever, make sure you keep that good seed available for the little family. I can't help you on any baby stuff but there are lots of people on this forum that can offer some excellent advice. You can private message some of the experts for additional help. I've made a few requests this way and they are always willing to help.

Oh, I am so pleased. 

PS. I'm hoping the avitrol campaign is over up there.


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## docbjb

I just went out and checked the situation. The mother would not get off the nest long enough for me to take a picture, but the smaller baby is definitely much smaller and looks much less developed than the other bird. He can wiggle his wings, which I was worried about, though in the pic above it does look, as Treesa mentioned, that his wing was in an odd display. The wings look much more normal now. Perhaps he was just in shock...or just hatched...when I found him and returned him to his nest, and now he's a little more alive?At least mother is sitting on both of them right now, and the smaller baby is at least warm and snuggling with its sibling.

I don't know if this one will pull through...and what about the mysterious third egg??

Oh, what to do?


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## MellissaG

It's night now where you are, so she wont be off until morning. With my babies, there was never a moment for the first week that a parent was not sitting on them. It seemed as if the other would be out looking for food, come back, and then relieve the other parent.. feed them, then sit for the next shift. 

Around 2 weeks, they stopped switching shifts like that (WAITING for the other to come back).. and rather, when they got sick of sitting.. would just leave, so there was sometimes a 30 min to 2 hour span without them being watched by a parent. Not much you can do, id say.. unless you see the baby thrown out for a 2nd time, then begin the steps for looking after him. I wouldnt worry too much now.. if shes sitting on them both, even after the one was thrown (who knows, maybe it just fell by accident...nothing to do with the parents at all.) then so far so good. Just cross fingers till morning, no sense worrying now  

Maybe if a walmart or something is open near by, you can pick up some baby bird formula for the morning just in case... (if you see the babies doing fine you can always go get a refund for an unopened bag)


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## docbjb

I'm not sure what advice you're giving me...please clarify???

I am very worried about this baby.....


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## Lovebirds

docbjb said:


> I'm not sure what advice you're giving me...please clarify???
> 
> I am very worried about this baby.....


I think that Ron probably posted in the wrong place and wasn't really giving you any instructions. Like some said, it's dark there now so leaving everything be until day light is all you can do. If it's warm there, you need to check the babies in the morning. If Mom gets off the nest, she won't go far and will return once you leave the area. I hope that the baby was just hatched and will be fine. I suspect, even if it is warm there, the baby, being out of the nest may have gotten chilled a little but with Mom's warmth will begin to wiggle around and "ask" for food. 
Please let us know what happens in the morning.


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## Lovebirds

ronhoward said:


> I got home this afternoon and one of my for certain male pigeons had laid an egg. What a surprise. I doubt its fertile, but I'd like to be ready just in case. There was a trace of blood on the egg and that usually marks a first time mom. I checked her vent and there was no blood showing, but it was still enlarged, so perhaps the egg was only minutes old. I placed the egg into a cardboard box cut in half (about 4" wide, 7" long and 3" deep. Then I placed a paper towel at the bottom and several pieces of kleenex on top of the towel. I then placed the egg in the middle. I covered her cage except for about a 4" peep hole at one corner so she'll have a bit of privacy. Mom doesn't seem to be interested in sitting on the egg, but past tiel experience has taught me that is not an unusual avian trait for the first day. Since it is unlikely there was any mating between her and a male, the egg is unlikely to be fertile, but perhaps something went on that I wasn't aware of. I read the message giving information for a chick, but tiels like fully closed boxes for their incubation...does that apply to a pigeon (it seems they like more of any open nest)?? If the egg hatches (and/or is joined by another egg) would she accept any other available male to help raise the baby(s)?? Curiosity overwhelmns me. Anything else I should know?? I know how to hand feed, should the occasional arise. Ron


Ron, the moderators probably need to move this thread into it's own place so we don't all get confused. I can't do that, but hopefully they'll see this and move it. 
Pigeons don't usually sit on the first egg. They wait until they lay the second one and then sit on them. If this bird doesn't have a mate, then you're right, the eggs won't be fertile. If she does have mate, he should take his turn on the nest every day. As far as another male "helping" her out. No. That won't work. If this hen doesn't have a mate, most likely, she won't sit on the eggs for very long. A few days at the most. They sit on their eggs, 24/7, for 19 days. Both parents share in that duty, so without help, she'll loose interest and just walk away. Hope this helps some. OH, and the second egg should be laid on Thursday afternoon.


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## sabina

I think the advice is just to wait till morning. The babies don't get fed during the night anyway, so as long as the mom is sitting on the nest and keeping the baby warm, it should be ok till tomorrow. Also, sometimes it happens that one baby is much smaller than the other, and everything still turns out fine. So just watch to see if the baby is being fed tomorrow.
Sabina


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## Skyeking

sabina said:


> I think the advice is just to wait till morning. The babies don't get fed during the night anyway, so as long as the mom is sitting on the nest and keeping the baby warm, it should be ok till tomorrow. Also, sometimes it happens that one baby is much smaller than the other, and everything still turns out fine. So just watch to see if the baby is being fed tomorrow.
> Sabina


Hi Sabina,

They do get fed around the clock when they are newbies, for the first two days.


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## docbjb

Today, the babies are ready for their photograph! Little one is still so tiny, but a fighter! It moves more than the bigger bird and seems to always be looking to snuggle up to its sister or brother.

I haven't seen them being fed yet. I try to stay out of their way as much as possible, except for moving mom or dad out of the way once in the morning and once in the evening so I can take a picture and check on the babes. The third egg is still just sitting there.

Mom and dad seem to have invited a couple of friends to nest in my planter. I don't think that's such a good idea...but it's wonderful to see that the Avitrol didn't harm ALL the pigeons.

My pug dog Mugsy is feeling a little jealous of the attention the pijjies are getting.

Thanks everyone for your advice and good thoughts!

Bonney


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## Lovebirds

Bonney, I would be almost certain that both babies are getting fed, or one or both would be dead by now. They wouldn't survive this long with no food. So, for now, the best thing to do is let Dad and Mom take care of business. I would however (some may disagree with me) remove that third egg. IF it should hatch, (if it's even fertile), that third baby would be so far behind, he wouldn't make it. He wouldn't be able to compete with two older babies for food. Pigeons normally raise only 2 babies at a time. They COULD raise three, but it would be a strain on them. All of this is unless you are prepared to take in the third baby should it hatch, but that is a MAJOR undertaking. IF this egg hatches and it's more than 3 or 4 days from now, the parents would not have the crop milk needed to keep it alive. Bottom line is the baby wouldn't make it unless you intervened and at day one of age, even you taking it in is a toss up as to whether it would live or not. So........in MY humble opinion, it's best all around to just take the egg away.


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## docbjb

Thanks, Renee. However much I don't want to hurt a baby pigeon, it would be harder to watch it die, so I do agree with you. Thanks for stating it so logically so that I can see it's the right decision.

Now, what do I do with it? It seems so cold just to toss it in the trash  If there is a baby in there ready to hatch, will it suffer?


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## Maggie-NC

Bonney, I almost never (if ever) disagree with Renee  but, my problem is that if there is a baby in the egg that is alive, to me it deserves the chance to live. Raising a baby is really not all that difficult and can be very rewarding. I do agree that it would be create a hardship on the parents to feed 3, particularly ferals when their life is pretty difficult anyhow.

There are many threads on the forum and members who would be happy to help you learn how to feed this pigeon - if the egg does hatch.


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## Lovebirds

docbjb said:


> Thanks, Renee. However much I don't want to hurt a baby pigeon, it would be harder to watch it die, so I do agree with you. Thanks for stating it so logically so that I can see it's the right decision.
> 
> Now, what do I do with it? It seems so cold just to toss it in the trash  If there is a baby in there ready to hatch, will it suffer?


Well, that's the problem and that's why I said some would probably disagree with me. (They just haven't logged on and read this yet.  ) You could candle the egg and see if there seems to be anything inside of it. This is how I look at it........wrong or not........there are times that babies die inside the egg before they ever hatch. Do they suffer? I don't know. Thing is, when it's happening, we don't "know" about it until 2 or 3 days later, the egg never hatches. The only difference in that situation and this one is the knowledge of it happening. I would be that last one to say to just let a baby die. Anyone here that knows me knows that, but to let it hatch and starve to death is even worse in my mind. 
There are people who've raised a baby from day one. It's not impossible to do, but it's a lot of time and attention for about 5 or 6 days straight. It's not something that I would want to take on. So, that's up to you. I don't know your situation, time wise, or ability to take on something like that. 
I would candle the egg first and see what it looks like. Then you can make a decision on how to handle it. 
Those are two sweet babies there. Earlier, I guess I didn't wait long enough, because I didn't see the picture.


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## TAWhatley

That's a dicey situation, for sure, Bonney. If that egg has been incubated for some time, I would leave it be as there could well be a nearly fully formed baby in there. Should it hatch, then you are probably going to have to try and raise the baby by hand. 

I'm concerned about the significant difference in the sizes of the two babies. It could be due to the smaller one not being able to successfully compete with the larger one for food and/or it could be ill. I think you need to keep a close eye on the little one in case intervention is needed.

I sure hope all will be well.

Terry


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## TAWhatley

I think Renee just posted the best solution .. candle that egg. Then we will all know whether it's developing or not. Wish I would have been thinking well enough to suggest that  

Terry


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## Maggie-NC

lol Terry - me too!


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## BirdDogg10

*Pug dogs*



docbjb said:


> My pug dog Mugsy is feeling a little jealous of the attention the pijjies are getting.
> QUOTE] You have a pug? so do my folks, he's fawn, his name is Bentley. We also have a Beagle pup named Rudy, she's almost 10 months old. Asdie from that tose pigeons are cute!


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## docbjb

I candled the egg...you can see the clear spot beneath, with the yolk and peep floating at the top. So I guess it's viable!

I am concerned about the hatch date...I am a student, a full-time university administrator, and a part-time worker with DD adults. Wouldn't you know, I need to throw a two-day conference out of town into the mix on Friday. I hope it hatches before then (though, if it hatches too much later, the chances of survival are slim as I understand it??)

What a quandary. BTW, the mother is sitting on her babies with the egg off to one side...she doesn't seem to care whether or not it is actually under her keeping warm!


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## Lovebirds

Well, I'm at a loss as to what everyone expects her to do. If she takes the egg and lets the baby expire, everyone thinks that's wrong. If she lets the baby hatch and it doesn't make it, then Bonney has to wonder if THAT was the right thing to do. I've said what I think and that's all I can do. I can't make the decision.


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## TAWhatley

docbjb said:


> What a quandary. BTW, the mother is sitting on her babies with the egg off to one side...she doesn't seem to care whether or not it is actually under her keeping warm!


Well, I think perhaps it's time to let mother (or father) know best. If the parent birds are not tending the egg, then they either know something we don't or realize they can't handle three babies.

Tough call any way you look at it, Bonney. Renee is right .. this is a darned if you do and darned if you don't situation. 

Terry


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## docbjb

Is is very hard. But they parents seem to be ignoring this egg. 

Could it be that another bird laid an egg in the nest? I know some birds do this, but do pigeons?

Leave it to me, this had to be a complicated experience! 

Bonney


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## flitsnowzoom

On top of everything else, you have to go away  for a couple of days. Is there anyone around that can feed your pidgies so they don't have to take the poison bait? I would hate for you to come back and find that the whole family was in trouble. 

Boy, what a tough decision to make on the egg. You thought there was a wildlife rehab place you could take the little one to if it failed to do well. Maybe that would be a solution to consider.


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## docbjb

A co-worker has agreed to look in on the pijs while I am gone and to do the clean water/food dishes Saturday and Sunday...by the way, they really seem to love lentils! Can they also have split peas?

And if the egg hatches, the little one will go to the rehab clinic Friday, depending upon its condition.


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## Lovebirds

docbjb said:


> A co-worker has agreed to look in on the pijs while I am gone and to do the clean water/food dishes Saturday and Sunday...by the way, they really seem to love lentils! Can they also have split peas?
> 
> And if the egg hatches, the little one will go to the rehab clinic Friday, depending upon its condition.


Yes, they will eat the split peas. I actually just started giving them to my birds, along with the lentils. I didn't think they would eat them, but guess what? They did.  
Good luck with all you little "charges"........mother nature will take care of God's creatures like she's been doing for millions of years.
Some decisions are just hard to make, no matter how you look at it. Regardless of what happens with this third egg.........there's two new lives there that have been given a chance because of you. Doesn't get much better than that.


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## flitsnowzoom

Lovebirds said:


> Good luck with all you little "charges"........mother nature will take care of God's creatures like she's been doing for millions of years.
> Some decisions are just hard to make, no matter how you look at it. Regardless of what happens with this third egg.........there's two new lives there that have been given a chance because of you. Doesn't get much better than that.


Amen to that, Lovebirds. 

Mother Nature and the pigdies will do their best for the egg and you are doing your best for the new little ones and the folks. Hurray for our side!


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## docbjb

Well, the third egg has been "out in the cold" for a day now. The adults basically kicked it out of the nest  I kept putting it in through last night, but they are clearly not interested in it. The other babies are almost three days old and still very active whenever I get a chance to see them. So all is ok for now.


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## MellissaG

Unless the egg was laid later on by another pigeon, id say its toast.. but who knows. Mother nature will take care of things. 

Also, I read somewhere the first 5 or so days are the most important with the babies -- and if youre on day 3 and things are looking good then should be fine!  Yippy for the fuzzballs.


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## MellissaG

oh and post more pics! Its so fun to watch them grow..


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## docbjb

*Update!*

Here's a picture of Big Baby....he's 14 days old now and very vocal when the parents show up to feed him! His little brother (or sister) was taken to the rehab center a week ago and, though I requested an update on the little one, I haven't heard anything yet. When will he be beginning to try and fly? When do they finally leave the nest?

Mom and Dad are still hanging around the nest along with another bird who I think is interested in Mom. Do females ever have two mates at the same time? I'm wondering because they seem to be quite a threesome and also because so many of our pijs were poisoned in the recent Avitrol "clean-up," perhaps the available female population is pretty thin.....


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## MellissaG

cute pic  Hes still all fluffy and yellow lol. 

My babies are about 5 weeks old, and havnt "left" yet. Although, they have just begun the past two or three days to leave the nest and explore the world around them AKA my balcony. One of them has even begun jumping to the railings, then flying back down again. At this point, they look like (slightly smaller) adult pigeons, yet still squeek when mom or dad comes by 

It's pretty funny watching two nearly adult pigeons attack their parent the same size for food. The poor mom/dad kind of peeks around a corner to let them know they are here with food -- then the squeeking begins, and two full grown birds charge at them squeeking, with wings flapping everywhere..pecking at their parents beak for seeds. The parent can usually handle about 5 seconds of it before they run away to catch their breath, before going back again lol.


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