# Is the wattle size getting reduced ?



## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

Is the wattle size getting reduced in the present day homers ?
I personally love the big wattled homers.But after seeing the new racing homer pictures shared in various internet sites, Facebook etc....i have a feeling the wattle size is progressively getting reduced in the present day homers.I know at end of the day nobody bothers about looks as long as the birds are doing good and getting better with performance ,but still Give your thoughts on this topic ?


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## blongboy (Nov 10, 2009)

that is true ..i do luv the big wattle in homers too


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

Don't they increase in size with age. Most homers don't last long enough to grow large ones.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I also think the trait is in certain lines of homers.. and perhaps those lines are getting lost.. It does seem allot of the the older pics the homers do have the fleshy large wattles.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

The older breeds with the larger wattles are considered "slow these days" you still see them in some peoples distance birds but as far as the spring birds go it is rare to see them these days.

Check this boy out. He is a Seon line and produces good young.










this was two years ago, He has a larger wattle now even. It does increase with age but they need the genetics there to begin with, Just like any breed, If they were select bred for this trait as in the dragoon and english carrier then the wattles would still be around and would probably be larger but like mentioned, People breed for race ability not large wattles.

This boy also has a reasonable size wattle - he is a logan


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## blongboy (Nov 10, 2009)

NZ Pigeon said:


> The older breeds with the larger wattles are considered "slow these days" you still see them in some peoples distance birds but as far as the spring birds go it is rare to see them these days.
> 
> Check this boy out. He is a Seon line and produces good young.
> 
> ...


that black is sexy looking


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Thanks man, You should see the wee hens that have come out of his son, So his grandaughters, They are the nicest looking little racers I have ever bred IMO.


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## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

The blacky is awesome


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## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

Shadybug Lofts said:


> Don't they increase in size with age. Most homers don't last long enough to grow large ones.


Is the life span of homers less nowadays? Any reason for this ?


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## Shadybug Lofts (Mar 13, 2010)

I mean if you fly them because of hawks and other reasons they would not return.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

boneyrajan.k said:


> Is the wattle size getting reduced in the present day homers ?
> I personally love the big wattled homers.But after seeing the new racing homer pictures shared in various internet sites, Facebook etc....i have a feeling the wattle size is progressively getting reduced in the present day homers.I know at end of the day nobody bothers about looks as long as the birds are doing good and getting better with performance ,but still Give your thoughts on this topic ?


 I think the answer to your question is yes. Birds in general seem to have changed a lot from 50 years ago. Which is the only perspective I can speak from. In those "good ole days" at least around the pigeons I was exposed to, the wattles do seem smaller today. The birds are different in many different ways and I do think this is one of them. 

Some of the other examples of differences I suspect has occurred, have to do with the immune system and life spans. These and other genetic changes have occurred, and are occurring...some positive, some negative, some we think are neutral.....but I digress.....


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## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> These and other genetic changes have occurred, and are occurring...some positive, some negative, some we think are neutral.....but I digress.....


Sir,Can u say what are the positive and negative changes ?


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

Genetic changes are occuring in every species, like the monkeys have turned into humans

May be the pigeons will turn into ducks some day, who knows


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

boneyrajan.k said:


> Sir,Can u say what are the positive and negative changes ?


I would see wattle size reducing as positive for racing/feeding/conditioning of the birds, The birds I have with larger wattles do struggle a little more to feed from hoppers than the more " wild types " in the loft. But I am interested to hear some of the other changes also from Warren


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## beatlemike (Nov 28, 2009)

That is one nice looking Seon black. Didnt the old Trentons have large waddles? I thought they were a neat looking bird.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

boneyrajan.k said:


> Sir,Can u say what are the positive and negative changes ?


 Could be taking us OT, but I think the immune system of your typical racing pigeon may not be as strong as it could be, due to the generations of over use of various drugs on our pigeons. Generations of weaklings, which could only produce performance with the aid of various drugs were allowed to reproduce. 

How many fanciers seriously look for a very strong immune system as part of their selection process ? I suspect that the modern day racing pigeon, may not have the same strong immune system that we had in our pigeons back in the 1960's. This would be an example of where changes may not be positive. In that fanciers created generations of pigeons which require drugs in order to maintain good health.


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## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> C
> How many fanciers seriously look for a very strong immune system as part of their selection process ? I suspect that the modern day racing pigeon, may not have the same strong immune system that we had in our pigeons back in the 1960's. This would be an example of where changes may not be positive. In that fanciers created generations of pigeons which require drugs in order to maintain good health.


Yeah good point,thats true


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

Yes never really looked for a bird with that aspect while buying but in our region fanciers mostly rely on herbal stuff and not on the present day meds

Herbal meds are generally used to strengthen the immune system, but similarly here the modern day fanciers are focusing more on the meds that yo are talking about


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## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

herbal medicines are good


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Yes - Very valid point Warren, I hate drug type medicines, The way I see it, If a bird in my loft is sick I have not kept their conditions up to scratch, That may change when I begin racing as then you rely on everyone else that baskets with you to keep their birds in good health and we all know that is too much to wish for.


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## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

lets hear more from others in the forum


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## The Old Al West (Aug 19, 2011)

*Wattles and microorganisms*

To y'all who like big wattles--I have some birds that according to ther peds. are down from the Trenton family. I will send some pics of a few that are wew(well endowed wattlewise) for your viewing pleasure as soon as I buy a digital cam. we had planned to pick up a cam this weekend.

On the other thread about immune systems degenerating. While it certainly is a possibility that this has happened it is my belief that what is more likely is that the microorganisms that cause disease have evolved by producing future generations that are more virulent by virtue of their having become capable of coping with older medications. In essence we have cultured microrganisms that have been evolutionarily selected for their ability to withstand meds/conditions that their progenitors would have found lethal.

My perception is predicated upon the fact that these microorganisms have the ability to effect genetic change at a reate that significantly surpasses that ability in a multicelled organism such as a pigeon AND upon the belief that far too often we medicate in an improper fashion or when it is unnecessary. Pics to follow


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## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

The Old Al West said:


> To y'all who like big wattles--I have some birds that according to ther peds. are down from the Trenton family. I will send some pics of a few that are wew(well endowed wattlewise) for your viewing pleasure as soon as I buy a digital cam. we had planned to pick up a cam this weekend.


Yeah would love to see the pics


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Same!!!!!!!!


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

Sure, would like to see, guess will have to wait till tomorow


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

boneyrajan.k said:


> Yeah would love to see the pics


Boneyrajan

Is there a possibilty of importing these big wattles here, only if you have some for sale


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## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

Pijlover said:


> Boneyrajan
> 
> Is there a possibilty of importing these big wattles here, only if you have some for sale


Import as well as export is banned in India


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

boneyrajan.k said:


> Import as well as export is banned in India


its okay


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## ThePigeonShack (Jun 14, 2012)

I also like the homer Pigeons with a larger wattle..

Where are they..

I would like to get myself a few pairs..


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## beatlemike (Nov 28, 2009)

wew(well endowed wattlewise)
LOL- Seems like we men worry a lot about waddle size, our own and now on the birds. I would like to see the trenton photos also. I passed up on a good deal a long time ago on yellow and red trentons,they were really awesome looking and of course had big waddles.


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## LA Lofts (Aug 28, 2012)

boneyrajan.k said:


> Is the wattle size getting reduced in the present day homers ?
> I personally love the big wattled homers.But after seeing the new racing homer pictures shared in various internet sites, Facebook etc....i have a feeling the wattle size is progressively getting reduced in the present day homers.I know at end of the day nobody bothers about looks as long as the birds are doing good and getting better with performance ,but still Give your thoughts on this topic ?


I have many stock birds with large wattles, it's only in certain bloodlines, linssen's, Hansseens and so forth, I've seen quite a few birds in my club that have wattles and Ceres that are too large and affect there eating and drinking and have to get them surgically removed, these birds are usually 10+ years old


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## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

LA Lofts said:


> I've seen quite a few birds in my club that have wattles and Ceres that are too large and affect there eating and drinking and have to get them surgically removed, these birds are usually 10+ years old


You have pics of them ?


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## Al X West (Sep 10, 2012)

It'll be a day or two till I get the big wattle pics I promised. 
Although I now have my new computer hooked up I have to wait till my digital cam gets here.


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

Al X West said:


> my new computer hooked up


It happens everywhere, its a universal problem, isn't it

I am having problems in opening Pigeon-talk, so all sorts of problems everywhere


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

LA Lofts said:


> I have many stock birds with large wattles, it's only in certain bloodlines, linssen's, Hansseens and so forth, I've seen quite a few birds in my club that have wattles and Ceres that are too large and affect there eating and drinking and have to get them surgically removed, these birds are usually 10+ years old


I have heard about these surgeries but i guess its for making their flying better, for better respiration not because of eating or drinking problems


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Pijlover said:


> I have heard about these surgeries but i guess its for making their flying better, for better respiration not because of eating or drinking problems


I have a bird that struggles to eat due to his cere size, I give him his own dish of food each day.


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

NZ Pigeon said:


> I have a bird that struggles to eat due to his cere size, I give him his own dish of food each day.


okay, are they not able to open there month becasue of the extra sizes?


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Pijlover said:


> okay, are they not able to open there month becasue of the extra sizes?


Its more that they cannot see the seed so they may peck at a peice of grain 5 or so times before they pick it up. At first I thought he was sick but he does it all the time unless I put a dish infront of him, Then he can just go for gold in the one spot.


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

NZ Pigeon said:


> Its more that they cannot see the seed so they may peck at a peice of grain 5 or so times before they pick it up. At first I thought he was sick but he does it all the time unless I put a dish infront of him, Then he can just go for gold in the one spot.


so that's a sinus just like we have that grows outside, but it grows apprently in huge sizes i guess in the absence of these present day surgeries the poor birds have to struggle alot for their living, flying is another issue but it happens in later ages like 10+


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## boneyrajan.k (Jul 15, 2010)

NZ Pigeon said:


> I have a bird that struggles to eat due to his cere size, I give him his own dish of food each day.


Ohh really...thats interesting and sad at the same time


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Yes, I think it must be frustrating for him at the least. Hes always a good weight and all, When he goes for small seeds like milo he often misses. Nothing too major though.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Pijlover said:


> so that's a sinus just like we have that grows outside, but it grows apprently in huge sizes i guess in the absence of these present day surgeries the poor birds have to struggle alot for their living, flying is another issue but it happens *in later ages like 10+*


Which causes me to think about that for a moment. Just perhaps some of our perception of reduced cere size, is in fact, a reduction in some measure by reduced life spans. Now that would be an interesting statistic, if true. 

I digress a bit, but reduced reproduction and life spans has been a noted side effect of the modern day milk cow. They only live half as long, because Mother Nature has a way of getting back at unnatural selection processes. Quite possible we could be having any number of unintended consequences as a result of our breeding pigeons the way we do. So in addition to possible cere size, there may be numerous changes we have made, and not even realized it.


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Which causes me to think about that for a moment. Just perhaps some of our perception of reduced cere size, is in fact, a reduction in some measure by reduced life spans. Now that would be an interesting statistic, if true.
> 
> I digress a bit, but reduced reproduction and life spans has been a noted side effect of the modern day milk cow. They only live half as long, because Mother Nature has a way of getting back at unnatural selection processes. *Quite possible we could be having any number of unintended consequences as a result of our breeding pigeons the way we do*. So in addition to possible cere size, there may be numerous changes we have made, and not even realized it.


I was just wondering why there are so many bird diseases that have given huge losses to the pigeon fanciers in the presence of lastest reaseaches and medication/vaccinations

Newcastle disease has struck this part so badly , that not only the fanciers but jolted the overall economy i guess the numerous breeding is one of the reasons, Nature knows how to keep things in equilibrium


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## John Dove (Sep 11, 2016)

I'm commenting on a topic last discussed 4 years ago, but I just joined so I have an excuse: If wattles are getting smaller, I'm glad, because I find the larger wattles distract from the otherwise clean lines of a pigeon.


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