# Paratyphoid/Salmonellosis



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Okay, I have reviewed the section on salmonellosis (what we usually call "paratyphoid") and its various forms. Salmonella bacteria produce endotoxins which are poisonous to the host. To give an idea what an "endotoxin" is and how powerfully toxic they can be, Botulin is the endotoxin produced by the Clostridium Botulinum bacteria and is, drop for drop, the most lethal bio-chemical toxin known to man. Salmonella primarily enters the host by the oral route although it some cases it has been aerogenically spread on feather and fecal dust.

It seems that the difference between the virulent strains and the milder forms is that the virulent forms are capable of breeching the intestinal mucosa on their own whereas milder forms can only enter the host's system through intestinal lesions. Once in, either type of strain can cause a septicemia inducing an immune response or colonization of tissues and the eventual death of the bird. In some cases, it may cause chronic infections that present intermittent septicemia and clinical signs. Recurrent infections usually result in progressive organ involvement while the central nervous system signs (CNS) and joints are frequently end-stage sites of infection.

Acute infections usually present with non-specific symptoms like lethargy, no appetite (anorexia), excessive thirst (polydipsia) and then excessive urine (polyuria) and diarrhea. In non-acute and chronic infections, CNS signs, arthritis (particularly in pigeons) labored breathing (dyspnea) and indications of heart, liver, spleen and kidney damage are evident. I believe that the organ indications are from necropsies and I don't know how you'd derive that idea from a live and intact bird. With high-dose infections, conjuctivitis and inflammation of the inner eye tissues (iridocyclitis and panophthalmia) can occur.

Essentially, the organism can colonize many places in the body and generally cause necrosis in every organ from the brain downward and even in the muscles. The possibilities are virtually endless. The symptoms can even be so similar to PMV that salmonellosis is one of the primary rule-outs when PMV is being considered.

A confirmed diagnosis is actually very difficult because you have to actually isolate and culture the Salmonella species for identification. A flock may be serologically tested but only if the precise species of Salmonella is known. And worse, chronically infected, subclinical birds may test negative anyway because the infection may be limited to the intestinal lumen, which only applies to serologic testing.

The upshot is that generally even a good vet is not easily going to be able to actually confirm a paratyphoid diagnosis. It can be considered the most probable likelihood and a treatment plan given as a "shoot from the hip" response.

I'm fairly certain that I've had a few rescues with chronic infections resulting in debilitating arthritic conditions. I have one downstairs right now that's probably that way. I had originally thought that it was coccidiosis when I caught him but he tested negative for that one. I've got him on Baytril and will keep him on it for several days to see how he responds. Oddly enough, this one was sitting with another bird that's limping around and has bad ruffled plumage that I think is infected as well. I wasn't able to catch that one, though.

The other thing we can do for a bird like this is all the probiotics that we can pump down it. Now, probiotics can do nothing whatsoever against Salmonella colonies in other places in the body which is why those have to be fought with the Baytril and/or other antibiotics that primarily target gram-negative bacteria. I believe that one good source of avian probiotics is Kaytee Exact Hand Feeding Formula found at pet stores. The other alternative is human probiotics found at health food stores.

It's impossible to say how much a bird can recover because it depends on how much accumulated damage there is. Skippy never did get over the arthritis and eventually died of organ failure. But she had two and a half more years than she would have had. 

This article will be subject to revision and additions so if anyone wants me to add anything...

Pidgey


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Pidgey,

Thank you for the information on the subject, I recommend this thread that talks about ACV Anti or Pro Bacteria that fp wrote, and there is a post on Salmonella:

ACV: Anti or Pro Bacteria

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=11492


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*Twisted neck*

I know some birds get twisted necks. When they heal will thier necks return to normal?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Just for you, UPCD, I ran a specific word search for "torticollis" through my Avian Medicine *.pdf file. I was horrified to find out how many different things can actually cause that symptom (neck twisting). I thought it was just PMV and Paratyphoid but there's more like 10 or so.

Frankly, the neck twisting has nothing whatsoever to do with the actual neck. It's all in the brain and nerves. Sometimes it's a degradation of the myelin sheathing around some of the nerves that can be caused by viral, bacterial and other bugs. In humans, we have several diseases that can do that as well. Simply put, it's short circuiting that's the problem. The severity is something you can't judge except by whether or not the bird eventually recovers.

With Paratyphoid, if they get to this point it's pretty serious and I've never had experience with a case that bad so I really don't know what to tell you.

Pidgey


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*Thank you*

Pidgey, You are so kind. Didn't know what to check under. Have always wondered about that. Never knew what to tell the people when they ask that Question. People tend to bring me the sick birds because I riase pigeons. I have seen limb wings and legs heal after time and antibotic. It might take 1-2 months. The twisted necks are fat and eat, drink and preen themselves. Wonder what to do besides antibotic and probotic?


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*The Vet*

Hinted at West Nile.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

upcd,

The vet hinted at West Nile with reference to what? A pigeon in your possession that retains torticollis?

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi all,

Can't speak for every bird that has the "torticollis", but DD had the neck twisting, and did eventually recover from that. She was very unstable for a very long time and symptoms would return w/stress, although it seemed w/quiet time and supportive care, she would return to what was her 'normal'.

A recent bird that I took home that had the neck twisting, died in my hands. Her cere was greyish w/a distinctive black edgeing @the base. She was too far gone to help her by the time I brought her home, although she didn't seem in as bad condition as DD when I picked her up.

Without lab work to see what is going on for them it is hard to know what they were grappling with when I took either in.

From previous threads, I understand that the 'boils' characteristic of the Paratyphoid do resolve and the area returns to normal after treatment.

fp


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*The Vet*

Said, It would be better to put them down then let them suffer with twisted neck. What do you think?


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

upcd said:


> Said, It would be better to put them down then let them suffer with twisted neck. What do you think?


Once they get adjusted to their new environment and don't get stressed over every little thing they can lead normal lives. They don't stay twisted all the time.
Even though my Sir. B. was getting emotional pretty easily and twisted his neck, he was a happy bird, I have no doubt about it.

Reti


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*Twisted*

would they infect the other birds in loft? Or is thier an adption placement for birds with twisted necks? They are by themselves. But could they ever be reintroduce back to the flock?


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

After a few weeks they don't shed the virus anymore, so they can be introduced to other birds.
Some even recover completly, in that case they could be released.

Reti


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

upcd,

You should have a long heart-to-heart with Cynthia (cyro51) and Maggie (Lady Tarheel). They both have done a lot of work with PMV cases and kept birds long-term who suffered from that condition. If you look at the avatar for Cynthia, you will see a bird (Feefo the Beautiful) who had that but never missed a safflower seed. Ever. As I recall. Anyhow, there are varying levels of severity and these should be considered.

Pidgey


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*Great!*

Happy to hear there is hope. I will consider each case individaully. And I agree we need to talk about rehabbation of pigeons with twisted necks because the look so hopeless when in fact they do have a chance. What is the normal healing time for twisted necks?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

upcd,

I have invited Cynthia and Lady Tarheel to come join this discussion because they've both done a lot with such cases. I have never seen a serious PMV pigeon. As I noted above, there are more possible reasons for it than I realized but I suspect PMV is far and away the most likely and prevalent reason. As such, you will get no better help than Cynthia and Lady Tarheel because they've "been there and done that."

In order for them to help you, though, you will probably need to give some explicit history on each such case that you have with respect to severity, the timeline, symptoms, pictures if possible, noted behavior with respect to severity vs. excitement, how you came by the birds, vaccinations, treatments to date, that kind of stuff. You just need to get downright chatty about it.

Pidgey


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hi UPCD, could you let us know, if possible, how old the birds are, how long you've had them and maybe the environment they were found in. You mention them being able to eat, preen, and do other things ordinary healthy pigeons can do. My experience with the PMV's has been that they couldn't do those things very well, at least not for a while. Do continue to keep them segregated from your other birds.

maggie


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi upcd,

How long have you had these pigeons? Did they all come from the same place?

The pigeons that I have had with this symptom made a full recovery, but it took several weeks. Feefo the Beautiful had a relapse and then had the neck twisting for the rest of her life.

The interesting thing is that even the pigeons that were really badly affected did not seem distressed by the neck twisting at all. Apart from the nervous symptoms there was no sickness as such, no fluffing up or loss of appetite, no vomiting. This is what makes me suspect that the pigeons that you have could also be suffering from PMV rather than one of the other conditions that causes torticollis.


From what I have read the virus is shed heavily during the incubation period, which is before the symptoms show, and then the shedding continues for a few weeks into the disease. I keep pigeons that suffer from PMV isolated for 12 weeks. I have heard that 6 weeks isolation is sufficient, but prefer to play it safe.

Cynthia


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*history*

1 indain fantail hen over 1 yr. not twisted, just abit of shakiiness, confused looked in the eyes. eating drinking and preening, not flying. Homer under 1 yr, flying eating drinking preening slite bend to the head. 1 roller cock over yrs, not flying, eating, driniking. 1 westie over 6 months hen, not flying, light and eating drinking. Whole flock went thru cephflex 500 mg for 15 days. Now on probotics for 10 days. Were bug dippped before treatment started.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

What is cephflex ? (It doesn't turn up in a google search). What did you dip them in? Did these treatments take place before or after the nervous symptoms started? 

Cynthia


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I think upcd means "Keflex" which is a formulation of Cephalexin which is a Cephalosporin. It treats some gram-positives and more gram-negatives. If you will recall the middle of Winter's oviduct odyssey, it's mentioned as taking over where Baytril wasn't getting the desired results at the time. There is a comment later on from Lin Hansen's ?relative? that mentions that it goes after some anaerobes that Baytril doesn't. Or something like that. Haven't re-read it in quite awhile.

Pidgey


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*Spell booboo*

Cephalexin 500 mg in 1 gallon of drinking water. Some symptoms before and some after. Kind of confusing. Unless it is a virus and antibotic are of no effect. We were try to avoid a 2 nd type of infection from coming in. I have been trying to cover every hole over the size of a nickel so biting bugs can get in. However I here they bite day or night. And could bite while birds are out flying. We just got crows back. Wonder if they had to go thru this before they got immunitity.


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*Antivral*

Has anyone ever heard of antiviral prescibed for birds? Acyclvior 200 mg For treatment of Herpes in birds? Or other virus? What do you think?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Yeah, drugs are the world's worst things to make a mistake on spelling. Anyhow, that Keflex dosing sounds terribly (as in, "ineffectively" light). I recently got a Keflex prescription in which my vet instructed me to dissolve 5 - 500 mg capsules in 1 gallon of water and let the ONE bird drink as much as he'd drink in a day and throw it away, the same for the following days until the prescription was finished.

In the formulary, it says to dose pigeons at 100 mg/kg body weight, 4x/day OR every 4 hours. Whether you dose four times per day or six times per day is based on the MIC (Minimum Inhibitory Concentration) required to be effective against the pathogen in question. Depending on the actual drug and how it is delivered, taken up by the body, metabolized by the body, et cetera, the PDC (Plasma Drug Concentration) needs to basically stay above the MIC in order to be therapeutic. Now, this is the stuff you usually trust your vet to figure out but it pays to do a little research sometimes.

Anyhow, it is sometimes a very "iffy" deal to dose by the flock's waterer because there's a huge difference in what each bird will drink due to their own preferences. IF the drug tastes bad, pigeons have been known to AVOID drinking water for up to two or three days (and Keflex smells horrible like toxic waste or something). When you add to that the variations of how much they drink due to their size, their water losses based on the relative humidity, the amount of exercise they're getting, whether they've got polydipsia (increased thirst) and polyuria (increased urine output due to a disease process), you're getting into a real nightmare of dosing.

Now, if we take the minimum dose out of the formulary for Cephalexin and apply it to a 0.5 kg homer, we get that he needs 50 milligrams essentially 4 to 6 times per day. Taking the lower frequency, we find that he needs a total of 200 mgs/day. So, out of that gallon of water with one 500 mg capsule in it, he needs to drink 6.4 cups of water in a day.

Also, yes, they use Acyclovir for treating various virals in avian species. I can't say for certain but my guess would be that it is cost prohibitive and is therefore only used for expensive companion birds.

Pidgey


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*wow*

You are good with your math. Me I just follow instruction. So I need to this all over again? Kind of scary. Here I was feeling really good about helping my birds. And the dose isn't even right. Ouch!


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

upcd,

I think I get from your posts taken as a whole that you experienced some kind of illness in several of your birds and that your vet prescribed Keflex as a preventative against secondary infections. Is there a confirmed diagnosis or at least a strong suspicion by the vet of PMV or something else? Also, what is the timing here, or how long ago was the onset of symptoms, the severity and just more details in general about what and how all this happened?

As to a loft retreatment, can you (tactfully) establish a dialogue with your vet to confirm the dosage? I can email him/her/you with the applicable pages of the avian formulary if you will provide an email address. If your vet isn't an avian specialist, that might really help him/her. 

By the way, Keflex is a drug that historically was dosed less on a more frequent basis in order to maintain the PDC above the MIC. Pharmaceutical companies have worked to enhance formulations to allow less frequent dosing while maintaining required levels, as well as addressing tissue penetration and efficacy. That is to say that the formulary that I have is, in fact, ten years old and it's possible that the dosing information is no longer applicable. I would NOT bank on that as being true however until I reviewed clinical information that supported the theory for the EXACT product that you have had in hand and used. Anecdotally, the fact that one of my own vets who himself raced homers gave me (within the last month) the same prescription but at 5 times the concentration that you've expressed is why I tend to think that the formulary is essentially still correct in this instance.

Pidgey


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## upcd (Mar 12, 2005)

*West Nile*

Was mentioned by the Vet. But there is no cure. Her thought was to get rid of other possilble things that pigeons usually have. So the birds might have a better chance at life. And not hinder by the other bugs or illnesses pigeons have. I mention kind of what you said in a roundabout way. And she agrees with you. However I believe I will treat my birds individualy. The ones I gave you some history on. The homer is in his 5th week. The others are within 1st week. So they get 500 mg in 8 oz of water everyday for 15 days. And then probiotics for 10 days. For the flock I will finsh thier probiotics 8 more days. And watch to see if anybody esle gets ill. I have put up more patio netting to cover holes.


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