# Help with a 3 day old pigeon please!



## Chalice (Jun 20, 2008)

Boy am I glad to find this place! The rescue centre I usually ring was engaged the whole time.

I'm a veterinary nurse and a client landed a 3 day old pigeon on me today. I'm happy to hand rear small things, and had great success with a 10 day old thrush last year - but this pigeon is nothing like the thrush!!

Could someone tell me roughly how much food a 3 day old pidgy should be getting? I've had him 11 hours and so far he's had 0.2ml powdered glucose in water and about 0.3ml Tropican (that parrot hand feeding mash). 

A little worried about his behaviour but surfing through here I guess it's normal - he goes nuts when I touch him, wriggles and squeaks like crazy! Decided to perservere with getting food down him - he seemed to hate it but he was swallowing it well. 

Any pictures of v young pigeons with empty and full crops would be so helpful - he's SO tiny I really can't make out where his crop might be under the yellow fluff!

Also is it true that pigeon's survive on the nutrients from the egg at first? If so, for how long? 

And how often do I feed?! I stop at dusk, right? Just when is that exactly - it's 9:10pm here and I'd say it's dusk = only half dark. Shall I give him one more feed before the morning?

Sorry for SO many questions, but I lost the 4 5 day old bunnies I tried to hand rear a while back - this bird WILL live darn it!!


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hello and Welcome to pigeon talk,

Baby pigeons usually get Kaytee Babybird formula or Harrisons baby bird formula.

At three days of age, he shouldn't be eating very much but he needs to be fed everytime the crop empties and only then, about every 3 or 4 hours. I think about 3-5ml's would fill the crop. It should be filled not like a balloon but a squishy bean bag.

You can feed from daylight to dusk. I'll go see if I can find a picture.

Here is a 3 day old baby racing pigeon, with a pretty full crop. Click on the picture to enlarge it.

http://www.speedpigeon.com/3-Day_Old_baby_racing_pigeon.jpg


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Here is the link to feeding baby pigeons.


http://www.internationaldovesociety....eedinghelp.htm 

Hope your little guy will make it. They are generally tough little babies.
Make sure to provide heat with a heating pad covered by a towel.

Reti


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## Chalice (Jun 20, 2008)

Thanks so much guys. 

Wow 3-5mls? Much more than I thought, so he hadn't had nearly enough! I just gave him another 2mls, his crop is noticeably shapely now. I must say, it did appear like a balloon a couple of times, and when I touched it deflated a bit, like air escaping?! Can that be good in any way?!

Guess I'll leave him to it now for the night - he's in a box on top of a heat pad, with a flannel and some paper flakes, seems a good body sort of temp in there. 

Actually it's not Tropican I've got, but similar - I went to a big pet shop and they didn't have any, but kindly gave me some of what they were using to feed their babies. 

Thanks very much indeed, I'll check in tomorrow to let you know if he made it, fingers crossed! I keep wanting to check on him but I suppose I should leave him in peace now - bet I don't sleep well tonight!!


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## Chalice (Jun 20, 2008)

Sorry to be so long - pidgy lives! And we're getting used to feeding times, though he still squirms like a squirmy thing.

His eyes still aren't open, 5 days old now? Anyone know when I can expect them to be open by?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Chalice,

They open between the 5th to 7th day, that has been my experience with my babies.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Chalice,

There are small bubbles that appear on a hatchling's shoulders when it had received enough food. Once these bubbles start to inflate stop feeding, it means that the crop is full enough.

There is a photo of these bubbles in post 44 of this thread:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=23065&referrerid=560

It is an excellent thread with lots of pictures of young squans and their crops, and information on problems that cold arise when hand rearing hatchlings and how they can be corrected. 

I would advise you to read the whole thread.

Cynthia


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

cyro51 said:


> Hi Chalice,
> 
> There are small bubbles that appear on a hatchling's shoulders when it had received enough food. Once these bubbles start to inflate stop feeding, it means that the crop is full enough.
> 
> ...


Cynthia, thank you for bringing this thread up again. I had totally forgotten about the shoulder bubbles.

I know we have a lot of stickies, but this thread has so much good info, I wish it could be made one.


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## Chalice (Jun 20, 2008)

That's a fantastic thread, thanks very much, I read it all! I'll refer back to it I'm sure, because still getting a handle on the proper size and feel of this my ones crop - I can certainly see when it's empty and when it's filling up, just a little worried that it does feel more like a water balloon than a beanbag.

Just wish he'd hurry up and GROW - he's so tiny you can hardly see anything! I will post a picture at some point, I have taken a couple on my phone but not transferred them to comp yet - not sure they adequately capture his teeniness and scrawniness!

FANTASTIC site guys - so nice to find some actual knowledgeable, pleasant people on the internet!


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> just a little worried that it does feel more like a water balloon than a beanbag.


At this age it will feel like a water balloon, as long as it is no more than 3/4 full it is okay. Once seeds are introduced to the diet the crop will feel like a beany bag.

Cynthia


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## Chalice (Jun 20, 2008)

*Oh guys, the little bird died at 6 days of age :-( His crop started to feel more like an air balloon. On the last day he didn't wake me up at dawn so I got up and I could tell there was air in his crop. He wouldn't feed properly all day - I kept massaging the air out of his crop but his breathing became bad and he eventually died :-(*


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Oh, gosh....I'm sorry about that...that's too bad. Believe me, we all feel with you.

Trying to get a baby thru the first week is the most difficult of things to do....just due to their age a fragility, it is a slippery slope.

Sounds like you took the right steps....could just be that the lil' baby had other things wrong with him to begin with.

Thank you for trying to give him a chance. Perhaps some otehrs here could chime in on what the "air in crop" thng might have been all about....


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Chalice said:


> *Oh guys, the little bird died at 6 days of age :-( His crop started to feel more like an air balloon. On the last day he didn't wake me up at dawn so I got up and I could tell there was air in his crop. He wouldn't feed properly all day - I kept massaging the air out of his crop but his breathing became bad and he eventually died :-(*




Hi Chalice, 



If you wanted, I would be glad to go over with you, what may have gone wrong.


So sorry this happenned...you are definitely a good sport and gave it a good try there..!


Phil
l v


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I am so sorry, Chalice. 

Cynthia


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I am so sorry.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

I am so sorry, Chalice!! I know how much you wanted this baby to reach adulthood!!

We know you did the best you could. Perhaps, as some have mentioned, that there was something else going on that you didn't know about!

Perhaps this little one's death was not in vain as you learned alot about feeding tiny pijies!

Sending consoling thoughts with love and hugs

Shi


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## Chalice (Jun 20, 2008)

*Thanks everyone,

It's since been suggested to me that you can stick a pin in the crop to relieve air. I did think of that but thought a) for one so small that would be like having a sword stuck in him and b) not going to solve the underlying reason for air getting in there.*


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Chalice said:


> *Thanks everyone,
> 
> It's since been suggested to me that you can stick a pin in the crop to relieve air. I did think of that but thought a) for one so small that would be like having a sword stuck in him and b) not going to solve the underlying reason for air getting in there.*





Hi Chalice, 


I do not know where that suggestion came from, or, if it was a misunderstanding.


I would say definitely "No" - one should NOT 'stick-a-pin' into a Babys seemingly 'inflated' Crop, ever..!


Now, there are occasions where 'Air' causes a large 'bubble' under a Pigeon's skin, because an Air Sac ( of their Respiratory System ) is punctured or ruptured, and, one can relievethe pressure of the Skin 'Bubble' by very carefully intserting a "Hollow Needle" as are used in syringes, in order to let the air 'out'.


However, a Crop is a whole different matter, and, one where one would far better be asking "why" the Crop is inflated, and trying to determine if it is fermentation gasses, or, 'Air' which has been inadvertantly gulped during feeding.


Neither of which would call for perforating the Crop.

But respectively, each would call for deferential measures.

'Gas' in the Crop can be a sign of Candida or food-fermenting in the Crop, and it is the causes of the gas, and not the gas itself, which can be deadly.

'Air', if in fact is 'Air', can be let out by simply straightening the Baby's Neck and having their Beak open and pointing up as one gently pull their head for their Neck to be straight...sort of like 'burping'...or with a siilar gesture, a feeding 'Tube' can be inserted down their Throat, and the Air will come out the Tube.


Problems occasioned by oversights in food preperations, and in feeding practices, which occasion food problems in the Crop, can include the food spoiling and fermenting and making 'Gas' which inflates the Crop...and, infections from Yeast or Candida resulting from this, can sicken or kill the Baby if not treated in time.


So, no 'Pins' please...but, instead, learning, understanding...review...



Phil
l v


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