# Your Birds Are Awesome Ace



## g-pigeon (Aug 24, 2010)

I have previously posted about my bad first release.I have been very diligent lately in the training of the birds I had left. all marks aces birds. I did a release Saturday morning from about a mile away.all the birds came back but two.I would be lying if I said I was not dissapointed. Last night one more shows up.this morning one is still missing.I was wondering if it was lost.I just checked my coop and the seventh bird was back.limping and a cut on her back..she must have been attacked by a hawk and escaped.she is injured and still made it back.she ate and drank water and is now resting i believe she will be ok.but what determi.ation to get back.great bird's ace thanks.cant wait for the other eight to come..


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## g-pigeon (Aug 24, 2010)

She is band number 19258


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

They have a way of making you feel so thankful when they come home... even after an attack... they sound like nice birds.. my heart is always with my birds when they are on their way back home... a cup of coffee and looking to the sky and here they come!.. it makes me have a lump in my throat evey time...lol..


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Put some neosporin on the cuts, and she should get antibiotics if it is a hawk attack, and the cuts are all the way thru.


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## Matt Bell (May 5, 2010)

These birds are nothing if not determined. I had one family of birds that seemed to have terrible luck (very light red grizzles, one reason why in my opinion whites are at a disadvantage with predators and people), several were peppered with shotguns during races to come home bleeding, with broken legs and wings etc. I remember one in particular bird had a badly broken wing and ended up walking god knows how far because he couldn't fly. I had to pick him up out of the yard and put him in the coop because his wing was shattered by some shotgun pellets. He never flew again but earned his stay in my loft, in my opinion of course.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Matt Bell said:


> These birds are nothing if not determined. I had one family of birds that seemed to have terrible luck (very light red grizzles, one reason why in my opinion whites are at a disadvantage with predators and people), several were peppered with shotguns during races to come home bleeding, with broken legs and wings etc. I remember one in particular bird had a badly broken wing and ended up walking god knows how far because he couldn't fly. I had to pick him up out of the yard and put him in the coop because his wing was shattered by some shotgun pellets. He never flew again but earned his stay in my loft, in my opinion of course.


man.. that makes you want to cry.. like a soldier coming home from battle..


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

I hope it will be Ok. six of the other eight have hatched. The other two should hatch day after tomorrow.

Please keep us informed on the health of this bird that was hurt.


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## g-pigeon (Aug 24, 2010)

I put neosporin on the cuts I Willorder antibiotics tomorrowjust in case. If she is not getting better I will take her to a vet.she deserves it by the way i think she is a she not sure


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## g-pigeon (Aug 24, 2010)

Bop are everywhere lately .

I don't even see rabbits around anymore.

There seems to be so many more of them than a few years ago


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

These birds are inspirational! I had birds like you all mentioned.


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## g-pigeon (Aug 24, 2010)

Yes they are. I love watching them fly and can't wait to race them but sometimes I feel bad about putting them in harms way .but I believe it would be more cruel to have them all locked up. These birds love to fly that is what they were born to do.


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## g-pigeon (Aug 24, 2010)

She is doing very well. She is not limping as much and flying to the top perch.appetiteis fine as well


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## NayNay (Mar 16, 2011)

G-pigeon- I am glad to hear your experiences, since soon my birds from Mark will be here, and I will be doing my best to balance out keeping them safe through good training- and worrying about bad guys getting them.


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## g-pigeon (Aug 24, 2010)

Congrats on getting birds from ace. I m very happy with the birds from him.I am also getting eight more


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## NayNay (Mar 16, 2011)

I think that means we are somehow related-LOL. I am getting a 6 pak, plus 1/2 an 8 pak- so some of our birds will be siblings for sure. 
I am eager for them to arrive- but still need to get their loft built, so that helps with the waiting.


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## Nomad_Lofts (Apr 12, 2011)

@G can you have mark send me someinfo on his birds sounds like he has some good ones I might want an 8 or 6 pak 2lol!


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## g-pigeon (Aug 24, 2010)

i believe he has a post on birds for sale


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

Nomad_Lofts said:


> @G can you have mark send me someinfo on his birds sounds like he has some good ones I might want an 8 or 6 pak 2lol!



All young for this season are spoken for.

My birds are a cross of blood from a select few good birds. The blood goes back to the best of *Hillfamilyloft*, *Smithfamilyloft*, The great 801 Houben cock and a HVR cock just known as Da-HVR.

I just did a bloodline check for Randy (Hillfamilyloft) and found that of the 15 pair of breeders I have:

9 pair have blood from *Hillfamilyloft*

7 pair have blood from *Smithfamilyloft*

5 pair have blood from 801 Houben.
(I will be bringing more of this blood back from *Hillfamilyloft *this fall)

4 pair have blood from Da-HVR

Of the 15 pair only two pair have no blood from these six key birds.


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## g-pigeon (Aug 24, 2010)

I also have a pair of sfl birds .
There is a baby almost weaned now.


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## g-pigeon (Aug 24, 2010)

It's great to be a bigginer and already have these birds In Our loft


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

I wrote on this forum last year of how one of my birds won a 150 mile combine race diploma, and that bird was limping when it came home on that winning day. The underside of its wing was bloody. I couldn't figure out what had happened to the wing and took it to my vet. He xrayed the bird and found out that it had one buckshot pellet (#10 buckshot from a shotgun) in its chest, and the blood on the wing was from the underside of the wing hitting the chest which was bleeding. It had stopped bleeding by the time the bird arrived home.

Yes, these little winged thoroughbreds are truly inspiring.


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## NayNay (Mar 16, 2011)

Dang Condition F- that is one determined bird!


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

I have birds from all over the country (and directly from Belgium also). I have paid hundreds per bird in some instances, although admittedly, my best were gifts, with the exception of the story below.

Last year I purchased 6 birds from "ace in the hole" for a total of $100 and received healthy and nice in the hand birds. I ain't good enough to hold or feel a bird and say it is a winner or loser. I actually have to fly them and find out that way. Sometimes you never know, because of hawks or whatever other bad thing that can happen to racing pigeons, if a specific bird is any good or not. But in those first six birds from "ace" two years ago, I got my best young bird of the year. Even though I also had birds bred from breeders I obtained from Belgium, CBS, Carlos Avilla, Donald Paltani, Tom Barnhart, Bobby Gonzales, Wally Tienprasid, World of Wings, Dustin Baker, Freebird Lofts, Sam Haslem, Quest Loft and Ken Christopher.

Out of young birds from all of those great flyers/lofts named above, "MY" best young bird last year was LCC 457, which was in that group of six from "ace". The other five were just so-so. But how often are you going to get six young birds for $100 bucks and one becomes your best bird of the season? Maybe I was lucky. I guess a case could be made for looking at it like that. #457 right now looks and feels like my best prospect for this coming old bird season. Time will tell.

I should also mention that the birds of those initial six that got "lost" during the racing season last year, were replaced for no more money by "ace in the hole" this young bird season.

I am not breeding from birds obtained from "ace". Not yet anyway. I have my own breeding plans mapped out. However, if LCC 457 continues with a good old bird season this year, then perhaps I will with him. I of course will let everyone here know how 457 does (because I love to talk pigeons). Most racing pigeons are not winners. They all deserve a chance but few will actually win for their handler.

But honestly, from whom are you going to get six young birds for $100-$150 bucks, and they arrive healthy and happy? Except maybe me, as I love to gift birds to those I trust to take care of them. I have had some people I am not comfortable with, ask for birds and I have not provided any to them. I don't want to gamble that any of my little buddies will end up mistreated. Those are judgement calls that I have to make and maybe sometimes I am wrong. But I have to make those judgements based on what little I know about someone on the internet.

I say "fly them" and let them show what they have. Some pigeons do not do well in young bird races and "bloom" in old bird races. Some birds never race above average and are good producers. This racing pigeon sport is a long term endeavor and not a one season thing. Give birds you do not like the look and feel of, a chance. What have you to lose? Any person that looks at your pigeons eyes or wing structure and tells you to "not waste your time with it", is an idiot. Yes, I said it. What about Mugsy Bogues or Spud Webb that played in the NBA? Webb was all of 5'6 and won the slam dunk contest, among other achievements.

What does one expect from a $15-$25.00 racing pigeon? Secretariat? A new flyer should start with the best he can obtain, and build upon that by breeding his best racers to his best racers. It can (and most often does) take many many years to get a very good breeding loft established. The earliest you can expect is approximately year three, and only then if you are a fast learner and have been paying attention to what your birds are telling you.

Or you could just spend $40,000.00 and do it in a year. It is up to you and your spouse.  (Go ahead. Tell your wife you are going to spend 40K on pigeons this year. I DARE YOU)


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## NayNay (Mar 16, 2011)

Ah, a very well written and insightful posting ConditionFreak. 
I have to wonder though- Newbie me still thinks that even if the wife (or husband...) went along with 40k worth of birds, you could still get shut out, right? Gotta fly em to know for sure- no matter what the price tag. 
I agree re the prices from Ace- my impression- based on observation- is that he wants to get as many of his YB out there as possible in order to test out his breeding program. What better way to do it? One or two good birds is a fluke, but if you find that a breeding pair consistently produces winners, then you are on to something, have found a good genetic combo.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

How about you put LCC 457 on natural system(with babies) during old bird racing? You accomplish 2 things:motivation and potential babies that maybe like 457. But I suppose your breeding program requires that a bird should be able to perform well as young bird and as old bird before breeding so you are not going to do any breeding yet. But then you are not there yet because you now have to test their breeding potency....then repeat until you form your own family/strain of Marine One.

What is nice about pigeons is that price may not reflect of what it can do unless it has been tested and surely then it would become expensive or unavailable.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

If I am not mistaken the Sire to LCC 457 is a bird off of my "Buzz". I thought I would give a little history on the family. I also did a little breeding record of offspring and grandchildren using race record. Every loft has a special bird or two that seems to throw good birds year after year. Buzz is one of them. Along with his Sire "Kahunna". Buzz was off Kahuna and Cutie pie that were both Gift birds.

Buzz has bred a club 1st at 300mi, our bond winner from 205mi. His grandson was our 3rd 300mi futurity bird. 

Cutie Pie's info
These hens have excellent bloodlines and are granddaughters to “The Miller Cock”. They are full sisters to Vern Crawley’s AHPI 1639 2004 who finished 15th Vegas Crapshoot 2005. Their lineage traces back on the sire side to; Victor Miller’s "Almost Perfect" and "Joseys Doll", Peit Valk's "Beauty", "De Prins" the brother of “Van Moorsel” and "De Prinses", the sire and dam of the famous “De Gouden 14”. "Almost Perfect" is the son of "De Soest” and "t. Wonder van Bergen" the granddaughter of the “Verbart 46”. They are sire and dam to many famous birds and the great foundation to the futurity winning birds of Victor Miller. The Dam side reflects Bob Kinney of Silveredo Loft’s best birds and futurity winners. These include "Dark Viper" and "Blue Star" breeders to many winners and notable futurity winners.

Kahunna's info:“Kahuna” is from the best of the Janssen and Delbar Lines. His sire -NR 2252 99 is from Chris Peeman & Sons Delbar cock “The Wolf” who sired Sonja the 7th finisher in the IF convention race 2001. “The Wolf” is also the Grandsire of the “ $15,000 cock”. -NR 2252 99 is also down from De Klak’s “De Turbo” and birds from Henk Van Boxtel. “Kahuna’s” Dam –AU WRPC 984 98 is from Vern Clausen’s Janssens. She is down from Merckx Janssens and the best Calia Janssens from Sonny Scott.

I lost Cutie Pie last year but here is what the pair has done since 2006. I breed 4 birds a year out of my pairs. about 20 birds from the pair total and I have stocked 6
Children and Grandchildren results:	1st,12th,30th,1st,1st,15th,34th,1st,3rd,4th,28th,1st,1st,2nd,12th,13th,


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

457's lineage is a hodgepodge. But one thing is consistent, performance is the base. Sometimes I want to just make a pedigrees with only race results no breeder names etc. Then make my breeding selections. That way you won't be swayed by Breed, cost, color, eye, and all the other things that really do not matter. 
Condition is strong in wanting to see what the bird will do as old birds. I have a guy in the club that is that way. 3 years race records before stocking a bird. My race winner is racing this year also. Hard to do, but better selection. Pedigrees sometimes sway your decisions. The basket is the true test. I had 5 birds off my YB team this year that were worthy to stock using my criteria. Only one is in the nest, the other in the basket.


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## NayNay (Mar 16, 2011)

hillfamilyloft said:


> 457's lineage is a hodgepodge. But one thing is consistent, performance is the base. Sometimes I want to just make a pedigrees with only race results no breeder names etc. Then make my breeding selections. That way you won't be swayed by Breed, cost, color, eye, and all the other things that really do not matter.
> Condition is strong in wanting to see what the bird will do as old birds. I have a guy in the club that is that way. 3 years race records before stocking a bird. My race winner is racing this year also. Hard to do, but better selection. Pedigrees sometimes sway your decisions. The basket is the true test. I had 5 birds off my YB team this year that were worthy to stock using my criteria. Only one is in the nest, the other in the basket.


Sound thinking- I like the part about setting up a race result pedigree to select breeders from - except then you lose the ability to make line breeding and inbreeding decisions. But I think it would be really interesting to set up a dual system- make some breeding choices based on ancestry, and then make choices strictly based on race results, and see how many of your potential pairings are the same. Then breed those birds!


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

hillfamilyloft said:


> If I am not mistaken the Sire to LCC 457 is a bird off of my "Buzz".



Randy, you are only slightly mistaken. LCC 457's mother is Buzz's daughter and a full sister to my "Buzz's Perfection". They have both proved to be good breeders.

LCC 457's father is a full brother to one of the (junk) birds I sold *Jaxtex/ Jaxracingloft *. I don't want to say anything more that may let him know what bird it is. Sorry I went there.

Anyways 457 is a cross between three of the four families of birds that are the base for my loft.

I will find out this year if 457 was a fluke or not. *Conditionfreak* is flying two siblings in Ohio, *g-pigeon *will be flying two siblings in New York, one sibling will be flying here on the east coast of Florida and two siblings will be flying in the TRC YB auction race in North Carolina.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

I am breeding from two of Buzz's daughters this year.


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

The two birds flying in the TRC YB auction race will be flown by PT's *Luckyloft*.

Of course I would like to see everyone flying my birds this year win races with them. Because of health, location, training, ext. some of these flyers may not win a race with any of their birds. This is why I look at every loft my birds are racing in as a one loft race. I want to know how my birds fly against all of the other birds in that loft. They are all flying to the same location with the same training, the same meds, the same feeding progam ext.

Without flying myself right now this give me what I need to keep my breeding program on the right track.

To show you what I mean.

*Conditionfreak *posted on here how many good flying lofts he had birds or stock from that were flying on his yb team last year. 457 placed well in several races but if I am correct he only won 1st place in one club race. Now my questions for you Walt are, how many races was LCC 457 in last year and how many of those races was he your lofts first bird home?


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## NayNay (Mar 16, 2011)

> Without flying myself right now this give me what I need to keep my breeding program on the right track.


Good way to test your program for sure. I thought that was what you were up to.


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

I had to check my records. 457 flew in six races plus the end of the year money race, which was a 350 (actually 397 for me)

He won one race. He was my first bird back in three of the six regular season races he participated in and my first bird back in the money race. I have a home grown bird (#105), that was my first bird back in the three other races.

Both 457 and 105 are large blue bars. I have a medium sized blue check hen (#16971) that has been consistent thoughout, but hasn't been first home yet.

I only had thirteen young birds last season and ended up with 11 of them at the end of the year. I have added a few late hatches to my old bird team, but they didn't fly young birds. I also added two re-homed old birds from Virginia. I do not expect those late hatches and re-homed birds to succeed well. So basically I have 11 old birds I somewhat trust to "be there" on race days in the old bird season.

Don't get me wrong. #457 is not a world beater nor a Hall of Famer type bird. But he is MY best thus far. I am in a small club and a small combine. Nothing like you people in NY, Florida and California. I am a novice flyer and every season I have made some dumb mistakes. From tossing my young birds before they were ready, to tossing a young bird with the old birds (that was #105, and he came home from a 45 mile toss when he hadn't even been off the landing board yet. I told you he was BIG in size) 

My loss of young birds prior tot he races starting was due to having three rounds of birds all being tossed together. That is a large spread of ages being tossed together. I have learned (hopefully), to mark my third rounders with marking bands and toss them separate from the first two rounds.

I know I should be only racing my first two rounds, but I only raised a small number of young birds to begin with. I believe I raised a total of 28 or so birds.


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

conditionfreak said:


> I had to check my records. 457 flew in six races plus the end of the year money race, which was a 350 (actually 397 for me)
> 
> He won one race. He was my first bird back in three of the six regular season races he participated in and my first bird back in the money race. I have a home grown bird (#105), that was my first bird back in the three other races.



Thank you for posting this Walt.

This shows what I am looking for when others fly my birds. If LL 457 keeps doing what he did last year and Walt wants to breed from him, if he does not have the perfect hen I will send him one.

My young birds will be flying in 9 different racing lofts and 7 different states this year. Other than the breeding it takes me totaly out of the equation. I will look at each loft as a one loft race. They will be flying with 9 different types of training, 9 different feeding programs, 9 different medication programs ext. ext. Almost every breeding pair in my loft will have a set of young flying in 3 or 4 of these different lofts and conditions. If this is not a true test of the breeders I don't know what is.

I will keep records of the performance and or loss of each and every bird so that at the end of the season I can do a performance sheet on each breeding pair. As I have mentioned before, at the end of this season only 50% of my breeders will get to stay. As a part of my breeding program this will happen every three years.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Condition
Something for you to think about is that I am breeding from two hens off of Buzz. One bred to a cock off of Ned and Snake Charmer that bred my winner last year. The other to an old Ganus cock I have on loan. He is a Gris Peters Jannsen x Rhijn Kloeck bird. Same family as the Ikon. If you want to work the blood into your stock. I am also breeding from 4 sisters and a brother to Buzz. So far every one has bred me top 10% birds if not winners. Two of the hens are new this year. Excited to see what they produce. Box and shipping might work. Problem is it will be middle of summer when the youngsters are ready. I am breeding a third round to sell or barter. Want to fly a few around the house.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

I was looking at my records tonight and found some info. LL 337 the sibling to the dam of LL 457 was 13th at 400mi as a young bird and also 34th at 125mi. The dam LL 338 was 15th from 150mi. A side note. I found out the other day that the 400 mile winner was off a bird I gave the breeder. I am researching the lineage. Chances are they are related. Keep us posted on what LL 457 does. I might be able to get you a mate from the same family with a good race record. On one condition, you get me a baby off the pair.


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

Y'all are putting a lot of pressure on 457 (and me). Ha Ha

My season doesn't even start until mid July, and he might not be around for halloween.  W'ell see. One thing I do not want to do is count my chickens before they hatch. Nor count 457's races before they take place. But he has come home from almost 400 miles on a windy overcast day, as a young bird. So, maybe....

I took my old birds out for a ten mile toss today. They all came backtogether. I only took them 10 miles because some of them are late hatches that never race last year and have never been trained either. Two of them are actually re-homed birds from Virgina (hmmm...I think I have posted this info somewhere else here before, but, oh well). One bird I took today is a half homer and half Catalonian "mistake" bird. Looks a lot more homer, but is diffinitely half Cat. Gonna be interesting if he can go much further.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

My winner this year is flying old birds also. My general rule is that If I still have the parents that I keep the birds flying. Asses 457 after the season. Who knows it might win you another race.


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## g-pigeon (Aug 24, 2010)

Released the birds from five miles away.all but one returned within a half hour.still waiting on one


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

g-pigeon said:


> Released the birds from five miles away.all but one returned within a half hour.still waiting on one


If the hawks are still bad in your area I would hold off training them down the road for a while. 

You still have more young comming and lots of time.


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## PigeonVilla (Dec 8, 2010)

ace in the hole said:


> If the hawks are still bad in your area I would hold off training them down the road for a while.
> 
> You still have more young comming and lots of time.


 I agree its only april and youngbird season is still aways off to be rushing these birds down the road so fast , but thats just me .


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## g-pigeon (Aug 24, 2010)

I think you are correct.I will not let them out for a while longer.
When do you typically start training for young bird races.in my area the races begin in august


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## g-pigeon (Aug 24, 2010)

How long before a race should I train the birds.


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

The past few year I haven't started training until the begining of August. But thats because I've been lazy and my birds weren't really ready for the first 2 races even though I shipped them anyway. So they wound up being my worse races of the season. I used to start early but every year I pushed it back a week or so until I got to as late as I can and actually get them in the first race this year I'm gonna try and train a lil earlier so I do good in the first 2 races like I used to. I push it off because I know as soon as I start training I go overboard with all the tosses and I have no time for anything else so thats kinda why I kept pushing it off so I could enjoy more of my summer out at the beach and on the boat b4 all the raod work begins. But for sure this year I'm gonna let my YB's out really soon and not wait until the end of june to let my YB's out like I did last year and I'm gonna train them earlier not as hard as normal until a few weeks b4 the first race but I'm gonna get them out there in NJ in the begining of August so I could actually use the tosses the week b4 the first race to set them up not just get them out a lil further like last year. Idk why I knock last year so much since it was such a good year for me as most of you have seen from other post I've made here on PT. But this year I have a bunch of birds from other ppl that I'll be handling for the IF Convention as well as The Great South Bay Classic the LBRA auction race and the ITFA auction race and I've gotta do everything the way I know it should be done to give their birds the best chance at winning those races so I'm doing things that way I used to back when I did just as good as last year back in the late 90's. I look at the 10 years between as lost racing years since other things were more important to me even thought I still won races in those 10 years I didn't put my all into it. But last year I put the work in so be it a lil late and it showed in the races sheets starting with the 3rd YB race. So this year I'll do all that work just start a few weeks earlier.


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## g-pigeon (Aug 24, 2010)

ace i know you mentioned earlier that you will be getting rid of a lot of your breeders next year.
i may be interested in purchasing a couple of pairs.

i am sure others here would as well.

i know you are keeping the best ones but i would want some of the ones that you would like to keep but space does not allow.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

g-pigeon said:


> i know you are keeping the best ones but i would want some of the ones that you would like to keep but space does not allow.


This is a good point and I think a misconception on the part of many. When a guy has 16 or so pairs and has been breeding a while, his 16th pair may well be better than some peoples top pair. That is assuming he is doing things right. I have been breeding birds since 2005. I have been using pretty strict selection. That is about 360 birds bred. I have 40 birds in my loft breeding. With about 8 of my original that is 32/360 birds that I kept. Not to say all are good, but most have bred me top 10% birds in a competitive club. The others are new breeders off my best or siblings of my best breeders. I know Mark has a similar selection process. 
When buying birds from feather merchants, not all birds they sell are tested. The small lofts that fly every baby, and only stock the best is a better way in my opinion. These are the guys you want to get birds from. My mentor has about 150 birds. He breeds from 15 pairs. Only his top 10% breeds. I would take any one of his 120 remaining birds. Some guys culls are better than most guys best birds. Don't knock what I guy is getting rid of, they may make you a winner. 
On another not, I would rather has some babies off his best pair. But he is probably not going to give you those. Unless in Marks case you fly them for him.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Mark's and my situation is also unique in that we do not have a club to fly for. In my case I will breed about 80 birds this year. Every one except two six packs earmarked are flying. I will only bring the best back or babies off winners to breed. If a guy breeds 100 babies, wins a few races, has say 50 left over at the end of the year. Do you want any of these birds? A few maybe. This in my opinion is the true definition of culls. Birds a guy does not want because they did not fly well. In my opinions these left over bird need to fly old birds a few years to see what they really have. Not all of my 80 birds will live up to my standards, but they could possibly be the best bird in the guys loft.


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

"One mans trash is another mans treasure", does difinitely apply to pigeon racing.


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

g-pigeon said:


> ace i know you mentioned earlier that you will be getting rid of a lot of your breeders next year.
> i may be interested in purchasing a couple of pairs.
> 
> i am sure others here would as well.
> ...


If I were you I'd wait until after you fly these birds in a races and see how they do here on the Island b4 go out and buy breeders from him. You have most of the birds you got from him out to 5 miles. Which is pretty good this early in the year. But 5 miles is nothing compared to the actual races. Who knows his birds could kick our buts here on the Island but like I said I'd wait to see how they do. There's plenty of birds that get sent up here to fly in all the money races from top flyers from all over the country and from what I've seen on the races sheets not to many of them are clocked high up on the races sheets. The locally bred birds seam to do better not that our birds are better but they were breed to fly our race course.


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

g-pigeon said:


> ace i know you mentioned earlier that you will be getting rid of a lot of your breeders next year.
> i may be interested in purchasing a couple of pairs.
> 
> i am sure others here would as well.
> ...


Yes, I will be cutting my breeders by 50% this fall after all race results are in. I only have 14 pair now and a few pair on loan to Randy Hill. I figure I'll sell seven pair, bring back some from Randy's with a few select birds from crosses he is doing with my stock. Then after bringing back a few of this years best racers from the families I do keep I should end up with 10 to 12 breeding pair for next year.

Randy *(Hillfamilyloft)* and I have been working together for several years now crossing our stock with some very good results. I may be interested in setting something up with you to do the same in the future. There is one other person here on PT that I would like to work with in the same manner. I have not said anything to him yet so he will be reading it here first. That person is *conditionfreak*. What do you say Walt?

If either of you are interested in this give me a call some time and we will discuss it. It would give each of us access to the best blood of the other three lofts.

Just thinking,

Mark


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

I do agree with *Pigeon0446*. Fly the young you get from me this year and see how they do compaired to the others in your loft. 

This stock came down with me from lower Michigan were they flew a tough racing course. They have also done well in New Mexico, Ohio and Florida.

I will not be cutting any breeders from my loft until the race season is over.

Ace


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

I'll consider that after this years results. But I don't see me adding anymore breeders for a few years until I test those I have sufficiently. 

I have four lofts but am full up with birds. Racers, fancy birds and my "forever home" birds (which now number about 30). I never cull nor sell birds, so those that do not pan out as racers or breeders just go to the "forever home retirement loft". I am going through a fifty pound bag of feed once a week or less. I have recently turned down a person looking for a home for two birds that had special needs. I have never turned down anything like that before, but am forced too.

Or build another loft. 

I have bought birds on online auctions that in fact turned out to be sterile. Wasted hundreds of dollars and got 5 and 6 year old "breeders" with exceptionally nice pedigrees. But can not make babies. They are prisoners of course and have forever homes also.

People should be careful about buying in auctions from those sellers who do not have reputations to protect. A guy you never heard of selling a breeding pair with great pedigrees, may just be dumping some birds that are worthless. They just look real good on paper. Buying pigeons is not like buying a TV or Car. If the TV or car has problems, you have recourse through the legal system or whatever. Buy a pigeon and it is sterile, you are just out of luck 99.9% of the time. How could you prove it was intentional or even known to be sterile by the seller, or did not become that way after it left the seller?

Buyer beware certainly applies to buying pigeons online. My recommendation now (I learned the hard way) is to only buy online from someone you already trusted before you heard the sales pitch.


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## g-pigeon (Aug 24, 2010)

The one bird returned today from Friday's release.it was fine. Sure ace once I get a few more birds I would be interested.
I will not start road training the birds going forwArd till later in the season


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

g-pigeon said:


> The one bird returned today from Friday's release.it was fine. Sure ace once I get a few more birds I would be interested.
> I will not start road training the birds going forwArd till later in the season


What was the band # of the bird that was MIA. I'm just wondering if it might be the other Zeppelin cross or the one that had been hawk hit.


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## g-pigeon (Aug 24, 2010)

it was the zep cross. i did not let the hawk hit bird out.

she still has scabs where she was hit but she is doing fine.
on another note about what jax says. how can he call you a pigeon peddler. you sell really good birds at great prices. also you have always answered all my pm and questions i have asked. but most importantly you sell good birds at about $20-$30.00 a pop. where are you going to get any pigeons that someont takes the time to breed to the best of there ability at those prices. just my 2 cents thanks george


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## g-pigeon (Aug 24, 2010)

Let the birds loft fly today.there were no bop around that I could see. They were flying for 2 hours before they all came back. It really nice seeing these birds fly .they are fast and turn on a dime.can't wait to race them. But I still have a long way to go.in June I will start road training again.


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

I see the BOP all the time they just aren't really paying as much attention to the pigeons since all the wild birds are back. But I had one of my race birds come home today from the 250 mile race with 3/4 of his tail missing so I'm guessing he got hit by a hawk. Kinda sucks since he's one of the birds I had high hopes for this season now he's not gonna be any good for a few weeks while that tail grows back.


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## g-pigeon (Aug 24, 2010)

Well at least she made it back.I will not have old birds to race till next year.what was her time?


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

g-pigeon said:


> Well at least she made it back.I will not have old birds to race till next year.what was her time?


He was my 20th bird home out of 24 I shipped and he was about a hour behind the bird I won with. But even thought I won it was a bad race for me I also had one bird come home with a broken leg so she's out of commision for a while and I'm missing one of my better hens. So I lost an 8th of my 24 bird team since the one is still missing and the other 2 are out of action for a few weeks atleast.


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

g-pigeon said:


> Well at least she made it back.I will not have old birds to race till next year.what was her time?


The winner made the 250 miles in 4 hours and 28 mins and made a speed of 1677ypm a lil over 57mph. The bird with the missing tail made a speed in the high 1300's around 46mph.


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## g-pigeon (Aug 24, 2010)

What do u think caused the broken leg.maybe hitting wires?


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