# Alright, so I couldn't hold out til i found a feral...new pigeon!



## kamz (Jan 23, 2010)

Okay..so I posted a couple of months ago regarding getting a new mate for bong bong, and was planning on getting a feral, until i saw this pretty girl. 

She unfortunately wasnt in the best of health when I got her however. She has been kept separately to bong bong. Here is a link to an album of her photos before and after 

http://s906.photobucket.com/home/kamzi/index

What i was curious about is - does she look like a show fantail, and, is she quite 'modena' ish, and is she show, stock, or pet quality? (not intending to show her, just curious) she is an ANPA rung bird 2009
View attachment 16893


does she also look 'well'? I have treated her so far with baytril, doxycycline, metronidazole (she had very bad canker when I first got her) and moxidectin. i am considering doing a repeat of the baytril as she has wobbly (uncontrollable seemingly) movement of her neck - which was relieved by the baytril - unfortunately i dont think she had enough to potentially eliminate paratyphoid - as she kept throwing it up - it did cease the symptoms though for some days. and also going to worm her twice prior to her and bong bong being housed in the same room. 

I suspect though, that I may have already have stupidly exposed bong bong to whatever she may have - he ate one of her vomited up seeds (they share a communal flying room which NORMALLY i clean and disinfect in between birds) - but seems as well as ever. 

anyway, tell me what you think of my new birdie guys!


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Very pretty little American Fantail. I couldn't get to the attachment - showed error.
She looks pretty healthy to me (from the pictures), what do the poops look like? I'd be concerned about the vomiting - why is she getting so many antibiotics? And what are the dosages? Some of those meds will cause vomiting.
Fantails normally do alot of "neck jerking".


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

I would treat for Candida...it can account for weird sideways Neck movements and postures ( well, this is a Pouter of some sort, but, still...) and is a very probably illness for this sequence of events and medicines to have brought about.


"Medistatin"



And...


As Msfreebird hath asked -


Images of the poops?


Phil
Lv


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

Its an American fantail and the spring action of the neck is a characteristic of the breed. The action is not a dropping neck like movement but controlled jerks of the neck with an almost steady head position. As arleady suggested, too many antibotics  Antibiotics are to be used as life savers or when a specific medicine is not available for a bacterial disease.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

exactly what sreesh has said, they have a quiver to the neck, that is normal for American fantails.. it is best not to medicate when you do not know what kind of sickness she has, the canker is ok as you knew she had it..so I would of just gone with that and kept an eye on her for the next serveral weeks, and not of medicated her with all those antibios.. you can get a culture and sensitivity test done on her fecals to diagnose any problems she may be carrying,(after a rest period off the anitibios) and to make sure the antibiotic used is needed and effective . She may not even need any.. I would get some probios in her to make up for the ones killed in her gut from the anitibios you gave her.. and of course when using any antibios ,if you have to that is, is important to give for the proper lenghth of time, failure to do so often results in a poor response, relapse and production of resisitant organisms.


Here is a link from breed of the week about American fantail pigeons.
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f60/standard-american-fantails-30965.html


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## kamz (Jan 23, 2010)

Hi guys. its been a long whilst since this wee birdie vomited.  so dont worry. She vomited in the first week I got her - i think the vet went a bit over the top with baytril - she is off baytril now. Its probably been at least 3 weeks since I had her on baytril - and it is reassuring regarding the neck torsion motions - a relief to know the motions are normal. Thanks for that guys

When I first got her, she looked like a totally different bird! if you have a look at the pictures on the first link (at photobucket). she had a brown/pink cere (almost - virtually no white) and was constantly swallowing. Had the WORST breath i have ever smelt - on pigeon or human (like rotten seaweed). Metronidazole has cleared that up nicely - which she has ceased long ago. 

She was put on the doxycline given the terrible color of her cere, and that she was highly exercise intolerant - she possibly came from one of the worst places a pigeon could come from and probably had been exposed to every single pigeon disease known to pigeons. (seriously). She essentially came from a place that is a dumping group for breeders rejects. for this reason, both I and my vet took her exposure seriously, and thought it was best to treat aggressively. She was negative for a P - whatever it is test) - but having shown an improvement in her appearance, remains on doxycycline at present - i am taking her back to the vet on monday for the final check up and a second lot of moxidectin. 

Anyway, in summary - poos are giant in nature (first thing in the morning, anyway - some 5 cms long!). Weight has increased from 274 gms initially up to 294 with once a day hand feeds (whole seeds). she gets weighed every couple of days. Is definitely eating - hates wheat and leaves that behind only from her pigeon mix! 

Essentially, my other pigeon has not been exposed to any pigeons before - and i thought ideally that this one should be as free as possible of disease before cohabiting cages near to one another occurred! otherwise i could not have taken the risk of this bird given where it came from. 

i haven't had the chance to read through all the posts properly, so if you asked/answered other questions i'll have a look when i get home from work! - and supply a picture of the last gargantuan log 

thanks guys for your feedback, i will definitely talk to the vet about whether we need to continue with the doxycycline - and have probiotics on hand for post. 

cheers susie


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Candida problems are a very probable eventuation when using Doxycycline or other Tentracycline family members, as well as being fairly commonly occuring in conjunction with Canker.

Far as that goes...so...kinda keep it in mind anyway.


Candida problems in the Crop, will often cause weird Crop, Neck and Head motions, sideways or up and down, and or odd stances.


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## kamz (Jan 23, 2010)

thank you for the information regarding antibiotics/ candida. i will ring the vet tomorrow and get them to post some to me express. they are great in that they will do that. 

one picture of one big pigeon bomb coming up as soon as the camera is recharged 

just noticed as well that the link of which i spoke of - i did not insert. heres a link to all her photos http://s906.photobucket.com/home/kamzi (not the midget photos). and heres one before picture for the thread


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

It is just so you know...


Too, Apple Cider Vinegar in the drinking Water can aid in ameliorating mild instances of Candida or Yeast troubles in the Crop and upper GI...or even to cure serious cases, it can work if usually needing to be Tubed in and stronger of a Solution to do it...but, Medistatin is so easy to use, tastes good for them to drink a solution of volentarily, and works very well.


Usually there will be some hints of a Candida or Yeast condition in the poops/urates.


Either would be very easy for an experienced Vet to make a Crop Swab and check for with a Microscope.


Very pretty Pigeon!


And I think she knows this, too...


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## kamz (Jan 23, 2010)

lol you guys have way more experience than me! i take my birds to the vet lots, read lots, but i still need to learn more - and i really appreciate the help i get here on pigeon talk  

lol i think baio knows shes pretty - she spends soo much time preening herself! 

there is one issue with the bird that does niggle at me a little bit. I am mildly concerned that after a couple of days the new birds poos turn mouldy (lol, i study strange things - these are poos outside her living area that i observed). doesnt happen with bong bong- only this ones. could this a) be a sign of candida - or b) (more ominously) a sign of aspergillosis? 

thanks guys 

susie


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## kamz (Jan 23, 2010)

Some pictures of poo (and a bit of product advertising for volkswagon..)


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Poops getting Mouldy fast, would suggest some order of Fungal/Yeast/Candida sort of situation to my mind, yes.


So, maybe a week's worth of the 'Medistatin' would be a good idea at this point.

Administered in a solution Orally, it is not absorbed into their system as such, but does it's work in their digestive system, pretty well from Stem to Stern.

What is her diet?

Did the Vet ever check her Blood for signs of Diabetes?


What do fresh poops smell like?


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## kamz (Jan 23, 2010)

she is having grit withheld at the moment due to being on the doxycycline, gets a standard pigeon mix (wheat, little red grains, peas, corn, vetch, a couple of other types of grain) 

i haven't had a full blood profile done on her..only the p - test for psittacosis. I can definitely get her booked in for monday to do so though. 

i am a little alarmed at the idea of diabetes. i cant see that being able to be easily controlled in pigeons?


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## kamz (Jan 23, 2010)

as to the smell of her poos..she had strongly smelling poos at first which have changed...to much less odorous. i cant tell you what they smell like right now..as i have a really bad cold, and my boyfriend unfortunately thinks smelling pigeon poo is crazy. so does his mate who just walked in the door!


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Okeydoke...


I would maybe pull the Wheat ( if she even eats it anyway, and, usually, at least the Pigeons I have known, Pigeons here do not like to eat Wheat).


Otherwise, Diabetes is not likely, I was just wondering, since it can dump Sugars in with the Poops, and Sugars support Yeasts...


Most likely, she has a mild Yeast or Candida infection which was incidental to her various antibiootic Regimens...and this is common to have happen, and, should clear up just fine with a course of Medistatin, which will not interefer with anything else on going.

If poops smell 'sweet', one would do well to wonder why Sugars are being dumped and not metabolized, suggesting Diabetes is happening...and, wrong or incomplete diet could cause Diabetes in Pigeons or anyone else.

As it is, her poops are probably full of Yeast Buds, which then get growing on the Poop after a couple days...


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## kamz (Jan 23, 2010)

thanks again - it may well actually be barley - not too great at grain identification


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Barley is usually a fairly light color, and chubby for it's length and has a cleft running lengthwise.

Wheat, is usually a darker tan, more slender, and has sort of pointier ends, and a shallower cleft.


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## kamz (Jan 23, 2010)

lol i think its barley


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Oh, okay, well, if she likes Barely, no reason to with-hold it.


The Pigeons here do not much like Wheat or Barely, unless hungry-enough.



Anyway, how goes the Medistatin regimen?


How are the poops?


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## kamz (Jan 23, 2010)

Update: 
just took both birds to the vet today - vet explained what the P- whatever it is test results means - bird is 99.9 percent likely to be free of chlamydiosis. so doxycylcine ceased. 

he said that she does not appear to have any abnormalities with her crop flush - a normal bacterial count whatever that is and to stop the nystatin - as she is in great health. poos are also considered normal by the vet. she has also remained canker free - so assuming this remains a closed loft - no canker ! yay! i will be giving her probiotics soon - not sure whether to start them straight away, or ?i asked the vet about the strange mouldy poo - he accredited this to mould spores in the grain - perhaps i will change my grain source. 

was really funny, the vet was trying to GIVE me a pedigree pigeon someone had found. had 
yellow wings, a white body, and yellow spots on it head - small beak and large eyes with a ruffled chest. beautiful bird. but being so beautiful, and im told rare in coloration, will not be PTS. phew. Was massively tempted though. its previous owner had obviously loved it - it had a hand made tin ring with a ring number and owner name printed on it. 

The vet also examined Baio, and said she might well be of exhibition quality - which was funny - the only parading she will do is wandering around my lounge room!


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## kamz (Jan 23, 2010)

If anyone is interested in Baios story as to how i came by her, I have put her story in the story section.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

kamz said:


> If anyone is interested in Baios story as to how i came by her, I have put her story in the story section.


New threads in the Stories Forum have to be approved .. I just did that a few minutes ago, so it will take a little bit of time before people see it. Just wanted to let you know.

Terry


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## kamz (Jan 23, 2010)

thank you terry


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