# Help! Day6 baby pigeon keeps squeaking for more food



## cotdt (Apr 26, 2010)

I just fed the Day6 baby 25cc of baby formula, and he keeps squeaking for more food. His crop looks pretty big so I don't want to overfeed him. Should I give in and feed him some more?




















The feathers look like that because it just took a warm bath.

It is still harassing me for food. Feed more?


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

He is plenty full.


At this age, when they keep squeaking, it can also mean the food is nutritionally defficient/inadequate.

What are you feeding the Baby? And where are it's Parents?


You should not be bathing Babys...if needing to clean some little formula spots, just use a damp Kleenex and gently dab before it dries.


Lastly, he needs to be on a surface he can grip well, so his Legs and Feet are not slipping out to the sides

As show in your images, you appear to have the early phases of 'Splay Leg' going on.

Their Legs and Feet should be under them, not out to the sides like that.


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## Pigeonlove (May 6, 2008)

What a cute little thing!! He's probably lonely--missing his parents. And yes, you don't want to overfeed him and asperate him. That is a really sad thing to have happen.


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## cotdt (Apr 26, 2010)

My aunt killed the parents and my uncle saved the two eggs, which hatched right then. There are two babies, this one hatched earlier and is growing faster. It's a day 6 but it looks more like a day 8. I can see the needle feathers growing out of its wings by the hour.

When do I know to stop feeding? The babies just keep asking for more and more.

Could nutrition be the problem? I got the mystery baby formula made by a parrot shop. I suppose I could add some vitamins into the mix next time I feed the babies. I don't know if my other pigeons could help, but I would rather raise them by hand if possible, so they make tamer pets.

Thanks for the warning about the splayed legs. I'll steal some nesting material from one of my other pigeons and I'll check regularly to see if the legs are in a straight position. Last time I took a peak at them each baby immediately attacked their beaks into my nostrils (surprise) and started shaking their little "wings" and squeaking.

Right now the babies are sleeping on top of my computer. It's only a matter of time before they are squeaking again. I hope nothing is wrong. I really want them to live until they can feed on their own.


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## rackerman (Jul 29, 2009)

He looks very full to me, no don't give in.........Sure is a cutie.......


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Cotdt, 25cc is more than enough for a baby of 6 days old. You do not want to feed any more until the crop completely empties. You could cause serious crop problems by overfeeding or adding additional food before the crop has emptied.

As Phil has told you, a 6 day old baby should not be bathed. On the contrary, he needs to be kept warm and free from drafts. He should be placed in a small container with a heating pad underneath his nesting material. Make sure he is not directly on the heating pad, put a towell over the pad. 

I have no idea what the "mystery bird formula" is, however there is a commercial brand that is nutritionally sound sold at Petsmart and Petco "Kaytee Exact Hand Feeding Formula" which you may want to switch to.

I hope both babies continue to thrive for you.


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## Pigeonlove (May 6, 2008)

I go to a bird store in Mesa, AZ and there is a baby bird room. EVERY time anybody goes into that room, all the babies (papakeets, cockatiels, Mackaws, cockatoos, doves...) start squeeking and begging for food. Like I said, EVERY TIME!!!! It is so cute, but you feel bad getting them excited for food when they have just been fed!


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi cotdt,



The amount of 'full' seen in the image you posted, would be considered about 'max'...


Make sure food is fairly liquidy, about like say, Melted Ice Cream on a Summer Day.


Babys need plenty of hydration, and this also helps keep everything moving through well.


Right around now, or in the next few days, you could also augment their Diet with very small whole Seeds, like a Parakeet or Finch Mix.


They will gladly 'gobble' these from your hand, if you make a sort of finger-funnel for them to put their Beak into the end of, presenting this at about a 45 degree angle, from above.


Anyway, all Babys at some point become insatiable, and will continue to 'Peep!!' for more, even when full...but, also, I have noticed, sometimes, the Baby craves something not in the formula, and, this contributes to their being somewhat hard to satisfy.


I am not familiar with the formula you are using, but, probably it is a good one.


Anyway, consider to try the small whole Seeds soon, allowing them each say, a teaspoon worth over half a day, while continueing with the 'soupy' Formula.


You can lay a small Towell in a cut down small Cardboard Box...cut the box off low, so it is only the bottom, and, about 1-1/2 inch tall sides. A small Box, like 10 inches by 8 inches.


Line it with a folded Hand Towel...folded so it is lining the Box bottom only, and not draped over the sides, and use that for the Baby's "Nest".

They will stay in it perfectly, pooping over the side, and it will allow their little Feets and Toes to grip perfectly.


Have fun!!!


Phil
lv


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## cotdt (Apr 26, 2010)

Thanks everyone for the advice. I'm in the process of getting a bigger cardboard box with sides. The older more aggressive baby can climb though. He uses his beak and wings to crawl around. I don't have any money to buy new formula, so instead I added some crushed vitamins into the baby parrot formula and fed them seeds.

I push the legs together to avoid the baby getting splayed leg, but it still seems to be there to some degree in the older baby. The towel doesn't seem to be working. Should I use a rubber band to bind them closer?

I have a NEW problem too, in addition to the excessive squeaking, the older baby is attacking the younger one! It looks like he wants to mate by locking beaks (see pictures), while the younger one just ignores as she is way more docile. I have them separated now.

It must be so painful to have so many needles piercing through the skin. Maybe that's why the older one is so aggressive? It is hard to feed him when he attacks my hand nonstop.


Day 8 and Day 7 babies, you can see the Day 8 attack so I had to separate. They are just on the ledge so that I could take pictures.


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## cotdt (Apr 26, 2010)




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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I wouldn't put them there even just to take pictures, as accidents do happen. I don't think the older one will hurt the younger one by pecking. All siblings do that, usually at feeding time. It is natural for them to grow up together. And also how they learn to socialize with other pigeons. I really think the more aggressive one is just playing with the smaller one. I'd put them back together, unless it was really constant, or the little one was really getting hurt. There are ways of taping splayed legs together to help to straighten them out. Don't use an elastic, as you can cut off the circulation. I'll look for the post about the different options for splayed leg.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

SPLAYED LEG TREATMENTS
http://community.webshots.com/user/cyro51
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http://www.parrotparrot.com/splay/
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http://www.peafowl.org/ARTICLES/1/
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http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/193589827zTYswz
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Have to scroll down a bit for the splayed leg part:

http://www.thecozynest.com/pictures.htm
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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Yeahhh...get a method going for those Legs now...

Cruched Vitamines in the formula...be careful please! It would be very easy to OD the Babys that way.


Babys should be kept UP around elbow height or so.

I have never had any Babys not stay in their low side Towel lined 'Nest'.


Once older, they will wish to spend time on any continuous ledge or platform on which the Nest as such is located...


Set a larger Box on it's side...on a Table top...Table Top with a Towel over it.

In the larger Box which is on it's side and open on one side, in that then, set their 'Nest'.


This is a good way to keep them, and they will stay put.


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## cotdt (Apr 26, 2010)

No more splayed legs, and they are starting to stand up. But, when I feed one baby the other baby bites and wingslaps me. They are very aggressive already!

How do I prevent the babies from stepping on their own poop?

Also, my larger baby squeaks with a deep nasal tone. Is this normal?


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## cotdt (Apr 26, 2010)

The larger baby's nasal sound seems to be getting worse, he sounds like a duck when he squeaks for food. It almost sounds like labored breathing. The sound has been there since the bird could make noises at all. Otherwise, the baby seems healthy. It is growing fast and poop looks good. But I am worried. Should I start the baby on meds just in case? Can a 14 day baby handle it? I have everything on hand.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

cotdt said:


> No more splayed legs, and they are starting to stand up. But, when I feed one baby the other baby bites and wingslaps me. They are very aggressive already!
> 
> *How do I prevent the babies from stepping on their own poop?*
> 
> *Also, my larger baby squeaks with a deep nasal tone. Is this normal?*


*
*

Clean the cage or nest more often if you don't want them stepping in their poop. And all pigeons sound different. He's probably fine. Can you post a recent pictures to show their legs?


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## cotdt (Apr 26, 2010)

Jay3 said:


> [/B]
> 
> Clean the cage or nest more often if you don't want them stepping in their poop. And all pigeons sound different. He's probably fine. Can you post a recent pictures to show their legs?


Thanks for the response!

But the 2 babies combine to poop 60+ times a day... hard to keep cleaning. Their personalities are completely different, they are like people. Their wings grew big real quick and the smaller baby is flapping her wing trying to fly.

I just took a pic of them in their box:




















On the table to see him standing up:


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

They are adorable. Keep watching those legs to make sure they stay straight.


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## cotdt (Apr 26, 2010)

Jay3 said:


> They are adorable. Keep watching those legs to make sure they stay straight.


They are even more adorable when they come up to my face to cuddle! The wing shaking when they want food is just over the top. But I am still worried about the sounds they make. Can I put them on canker and respiratory meds just in case?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Do you see anything down in his throat? I wouldn't medicate babies "just in case". Sometimes the meds can cause more problems. Just watch and see how they are. I really think you are worried for nothing.


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## cotdt (Apr 26, 2010)

Jay3 said:


> Do you see anything down in his throat? I wouldn't medicate babies "just in case". Sometimes the meds can cause more problems. Just watch and see how they are. I really think you are worried for nothing.


Nothing down the throat (I've been checking every day) but they are squeaking every time they see me, even when they are not hungry. Also, they stick their butt up and poop outside the box.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I really don't think there is anything wrong with them.


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## rackerman (Jul 29, 2009)

I'm 100% with Jay3, they look fine. Her advise is worth listening too. Cute babies....


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## cotdt (Apr 26, 2010)

Thanks for the advices. I think they are indeed healthy.

Today is Day 20 and they are eating seeds on their own now! But they don't know how to drink water, so I still have to feed them formula. I tried placing water under them and pecking it with my finger for them to imitate, and they splashed the water around with their beaks but didn't drink. Any advice on water-training? Should I try Gatorade instead?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Fill a small dish or shot glass with water. Dip their beak into it gently, but not above their nostrils. Do this a few times and they should learn to drink.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

I wouldn't worry about their "voices," cotdt...

I, too, have a squeaker, JoJoe, about the same age as yours. JoJoe's voice does that "croak/guttural" sound, which worried me too. However, I forgot that before squeakers get their BIG bird voice, they go through a "croak" (for lack of a better word) stage first. MR. Squeaks did the same thing and sounded soooo funny! 

However, Squeaks looked like an adult Blue Bar when I found him! I was shocked that he was only about a month old! He sure didn't look like a "baby!" 

Your babies are just adorable and look very healthy! I love their black feet and legs...usually I see pink on pijies...

I wouldn't worry about the water drinking either. If they are "playing" with the water, they _will_ end up drinking!

And, yes, pigeons are very "clean-minded"...they _know_ to poop outside their nesting area...if at all possible!

Do keep us updated!!

Sending Love, Hugs and Scritches

Shi and MR. Squeaks/Dom/Gimie/WoeBegone/Rae Charles


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## cotdt (Apr 26, 2010)

Thanks for the response, mr. squeaks and jay. One of the babies is getting the hang of drinking water but it will take some time with the other one.

I am releived to know that the "croak/guttural" sound is normal. It's probably a boy.

I don't know why the legs are black, and the smaller baby has an extra 6th toenail on her middle toe. How odd.

The babies come up to me to cuddle every time they see me. They are adorable, and getting big! Here's a pic of him eating on his own.


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## cotdt (Apr 26, 2010)

He is getting so BIG, and the neck feathers are now coming out. Him and his sister love to climb up to my shoulder, and their claws take hold I can't get them off. It's day 24 and I'm getting him used to the outdoors. When can he start flying?


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## goga82 (Aug 17, 2009)

cotdt said:


> He is getting so BIG, and the neck feathers are now coming out. Him and his sister love to climb up to my shoulder, and their claws take hold I can't get them off. It's day 24 and I'm getting him used to the outdoors. When can he start flying?


u'll see when they ready..they'll start flapping wings trying to lift themselves up..
dont try tossing them in the air..they still youngis to fly..wait another 2 weeks ..you'll see


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## cotdt (Apr 26, 2010)

goga82 said:


> u'll see when they ready..they'll start flapping wings trying to lift themselves up..
> dont try tossing them in the air..they still youngis to fly..wait another 2 weeks ..you'll see


Cool, they are already using their wings to jump around.

The babies moved in with their uncle and aunt pigeons 2 days ago, because those two adults help feed the babies and I want to get them acclimated to their future loft. The aunt pigeon was on (dummy) eggs, but today morning she flew out and has yet to return. So what do I see when I check on the loft, I saw both babies sitting on her eggs instead! They took over nest duties to cover for the missing aunt! The uncle was foraging for food on the other side of the loft.

They stood up when they saw me and started begging for food, yet didn't leave the eggs to come closer like they usually do.


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## cotdt (Apr 26, 2010)

The babies can fly now, onto my shoulder and up and down their loft. I was just playing with them in my backyard, they were flapping their wings and eating seeds out of my hand. Then I looked straight ahead and saw this guy:























He was right in front of us watching us silently, and not afraid of me so I got to take some pictures. The babies saw him too and trapped back into the safety of their loft. Is the hawk going to stick around? Looks like a Cooper's hawk but bigger. Should I be worried?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I wouldn't let your birds out, they definitely are trouble and look like cooper hawks.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Coopers can be a pretty good size, and that is sure what it looks like to me.


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## rackerman (Jul 29, 2009)

*I'd be worried. He looks hungry. Keep all your birds in for a least a week, maybe more. Nice pictures..... Try the cd on your loft too, can't hurt nothing.*


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## cotdt (Apr 26, 2010)

Yeah, I'm going to keep all my pigeons in for the next 2 weeks. As my lofts are somewhat small, it's not the long-term solution if the birds are to be happy.

I've added CDs and also 7 fake owls around the house.


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## rackerman (Jul 29, 2009)

cotdt said:


> Yeah, I'm going to keep all my pigeons in for the next 2 weeks. As my lofts are somewhat small, it's not the long-term solution if the birds are to be happy.
> 
> I've added CDs and also 7 fake owls around the house.


Keep us posted. Can you post pics of your babies, love to see them.....


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## cotdt (Apr 26, 2010)

rackerman said:


> Keep us posted. Can you post pics of your babies, love to see them.....


The babies fly onto my shoulder when I call them, or even when I don't. They look almost like adult pigeons now except they squeak 










This one does not like to be handled with the typical pigeon hold, instead I let him walk onto my hand.


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## cotdt (Apr 26, 2010)

They get to the feed before my other birds and pick all the sunflower seeds! I think the sunflower seeds make up over half their diet. Healthy or no?


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## Abuzain (Jul 4, 2010)

Just feed him twice a day and he will be okay  he is full in the picture.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

cotdt said:


> They get to the feed before my other birds and pick all the sunflower seeds! I think the sunflower seeds make up over half their diet. Healthy or no?


Too many sunflower seeds aren't great for them. They have a lot of oil, and will give them very loose droppings.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

cotdt said:


> The babies can fly now, onto my shoulder and up and down their loft. I was just playing with them in my backyard, they were flapping their wings and eating seeds out of my hand. Then I looked straight ahead and saw this guy:
> 
> He was right in front of us watching us silently, and not afraid of me so I got to take some pictures. The babies saw him too and trapped back into the safety of their loft. Is the hawk going to stick around? Looks like a Cooper's hawk but bigger. Should I be worried?


Fly the babies in the loft only, or inside your house. That #*!! hawk will stick around for a long time...keep an eye, he/she will well change locations also. they scope out a place for days and days before ever making their move.

Pretty babies you have.

Will you be keeping the pigeons as loft birds ? or do you have any intention or re-releasing ????


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## cotdt (Apr 26, 2010)

Today I let the birds out again, and then the hawk came back! It was watching nearby the whole time, that sneaky bastard. Fortunately no attacks, and they did get 3 hours of flying exercise before I saw the hawk and called them back in. Maybe the owls and CDs are working.

I do plan to keep my pigeons as loft birds (I have 15 pigeons) and plan to build a full-size loft eventually. Haha I don't think I could re-release even if I wanted to, as these birds fly onto people's heads and beg for food. And they would just fly back home =)

I will have to think of something regarding that hawk though. My pigeons need their flying exercise eventually. My racing pigeons and utility pigeons have been prisoners for 3 weeks already and are growing restless.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

cotdt said:


> Today I let the birds out again, and then the hawk came back! It was watching nearby the whole time, that sneaky bastard. Fortunately no attacks, and they did get 3 hours of flying exercise before I saw the hawk and called them back in. Maybe the owls and CDs are working.
> 
> I do plan to keep my pigeons as loft birds (I have 15 pigeons) and plan to build a full-size loft eventually. Haha I don't think I could re-release even if I wanted to, as these birds fly onto people's heads and beg for food. And they would just fly back home =)
> 
> I will have to think of something regarding that hawk though. My pigeons need their flying exercise eventually. My racing pigeons and utility pigeons have been prisoners for 3 weeks already and are growing restless.


If you fly birds, you WILL lose some.. just to let you know that, usually strong athletic homers can out fly them when savvy to them, but not sure about rescue pigeons, so be prepaired.


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## garacari (Apr 26, 2010)

I don't think that's a Cooper's - they are more streaked on the chest and belly. I think that's a juvie red-tailed or red-shouldered. I've heard of several attacks (by hawks) on pigeons in the last few days in Los Angeles. Seems like all the young hawks have fledged and are learning to hunt. 

I'm going to try the CDs and owls...let me know how they are working for you!


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## cotdt (Apr 26, 2010)

Jay3 said:


> Too many sunflower seeds aren't great for them. There have a lot of oil, and will give them very loose droppings.


Yes I noticed loose droppings as they only eat sunflower seeds. I guess I will have to remove them from the feed.



garacari said:


> I don't think that's a Cooper's - they are more streaked on the chest and belly. I think that's a juvie red-tailed or red-shouldered. I've heard of several attacks (by hawks) on pigeons in the last few days in Los Angeles. Seems like all the young hawks have fledged and are learning to hunt.
> 
> I'm going to try the CDs and owls...let me know how they are working for you!


Yes there are several hawks here these days.

The babies are fully feathered now =)










What is with the brown outlines on the feathers? Smokey brown?

The two "babies" are inseparable. They give gentle pecks to each other and to me. There is a hawk circling overhead so I just took them back into the loft.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

That's pretty.


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## cotdt (Apr 26, 2010)

Their feathers get easily ruffled by the wind. I think they are too soft. My other birds (show, racing) are much more tight-feathered and rigid so the wind doesn't ruffle them. I wonder what is wrong? Too much/little protein in their diet? Not enough calcium?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Couldn't it just be that they are young yet?


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## cotdt (Apr 26, 2010)

Jay3 said:


> Couldn't it just be that they are young yet?


Will it get better when they finish oiling their feathers?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I honestly think so. I think it's just because they are young, but if I'm wrong, someone will come in and let us know. I'm pretty sure all my young birds feathers are softer.


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