# mourning dove w/broken wing in Phx,AZ



## gremlinblue (Sep 15, 2015)

Hello all. I am a new member. My friends all bring (or send) me any injured wildlife they happen to find. Usually, it is a young bird that I raise and then release back in to the wild (I'm pretty good at feeding babies). 

Today, a friend of mine brought me a wild mourning dove with a broken wing. It was in their duck pen, and kept tripping over its wing. They felt bad for it, so they brought it to me to see if I could "fix" it. It appears that the wing is broken at the elbow joint. It is a bit bloody, but no longer bleeding. The bird seems quite alert and they said it was eating and drinking in their duck pen just fine. I taped the wing to the body with masking tape, to keep it from getting any more damaged than it was, and the bird is currently residing in a small cage with food and water aplenty. It is just sitting in the cage right now - not doing much of anything. 

My questions:

1. What type of antibiotic can be used? Preferably a topical one. Can I use neosporin?

2. How long should I keep the wing taped before I remove/renew it?

3. Are there any rehabbers or vets in the Phoenix area that would be capable of coming and splinting (or amputating) the broken part of the wing? 

4. Should I try to bathe the wing? If so, should I wait for a couple of days and then take the tape off, bathe it, then retape?

Please bear in mind - I have no plans on giving this bird away to anyone. If it can be released, I will. Otherwise it will stay with me until it dies. I am disabled, and on a very small fixed income. I cannot pay a vet to treat the bird. This is why I am asking what I can do. 

When I first looked at the wing, it appeared to be almost completely snapped in two at the elbow joint. It appears to be fine where the wing is connected to the body, and the outer part of the wing looks uninjured. It is a bit ragged, from where the bird was dragging it under its body as it flopped around their duck pen. 

I do have an outdoor aviary. I was going to let the bird stay out there, (less stress), but it tipped over on the injured side and couldn't get up again. So I brought it in and have it in a smaller cage. It seems to be doing fine - not tipping over. 

I will try to get some pictures later - I don't want tot stress the bird anymore than necessary. 

Any advice would be welcome.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Thanks a lot for your care and concern for needy birds. 
Do you have any idea of how long the wing has been kept hanging? 
Pictures will help us to understand about injury. 
Yes you can clean the wing with saline water and cover it with neosporin. No need to wash the wing though. 
Did you try figure 8 method to wrap?


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## gremlinblue (Sep 15, 2015)

kiddy said:


> Do you have any idea of how long the wing has been kept hanging?


It was in my friend's duck pen for at least 2 days, possibly longer. No idea how long before that the wing was injured. It looks like it either flew into a window, or was hit by a car.



kiddy said:


> Pictures will help us to understand about injury.


Yes, pictures as soon as I can. I want to let the bird de-stress tonight. I didn't think about taking pictures when my friend brought it over. They were on their way to dinner and had family members waiting, so they basically just dropped the bird off and left. Kind of hard for me to take pictures and hold the bird - I only have two hands! (insert cheesy grin)




kiddy said:


> Yes you can clean the wing with saline water and cover it with neosporin. No need to wash the wing though.
> Did you try figure 8 method to wrap?


Basically, I did the best I could to immobilize the wing. I wrapped two layers of masking tape around the injured wing and the body right behind the legs but in front of the vent (I didn't want to block it from pooping). I was trying to keep it from damaging the wing any more by walking on it and dragging it around anymore. I know how to do the figure 8 wrap (sort of) but it is difficult when you are by yourself and the bird was trying to flap its wings. 

Glad to know I can use neosporine. Does it matter if it is the ointment or the cream? I prefer the cream so that is what I have on hand, but I can get the ointment if that would be better.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Sorry for a late reply, a bit busy morning here. 
Oh I too have ONLY two hands. Sigh. May be we should bring in some octopus friend. Lol

So, actually asked about injury because the more delay in wrapping, lesser the chances to be healed in position after wrapping but think it is not too late in your case. 

In next post I will attach a pic on figure 8 and video link , if any of your friends could help you holding the bird, that is a good method to wrap adopted by experienced members when the vet can't be approached. 

Yes neosporin cream works fine as far as I know. I have the same on hand.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

You have to bring the wing to normal position and then wrap like in videos:

http://youtu.be/B_mzQg8Prok
https://youtu.be/B-DeKA0gRLg

Also here is a guide to identify if a bone is broken and how to wrap accordingly. Some may find it difficult but may be it can prove beneficial to you, so sharing :

https://theiwrc.org/wp-content/uploa...anual_2010.pdf


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## gremlinblue (Sep 15, 2015)

That second video link was very helpful, thank you! I love how they demonstrate on big birds - with two people. As soon as I can get a second person to help, I will probably try to re wrap the wing. I notice they wrap the wing by itself, then wrap the wing to the body - I just wrapped the wing to the body to immobilize it. I wonder if gauze would be better than masking tape, then the tape over the top. I'm worried about the tape pulling out feathers. Although masking tape doesn't usually stick that hard.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Kiddy, I hope you won't take it as an affront, but those videos are made by amateurs, without any experience or accreditation. 

Here is a document with very helpful illustration for identifying and imobilising each particular bone in bird's body, if broken. The document is created by an accredited rehabber with long experience. If you compare those videos with the info in this document, you discover that the videos are made following simplistic ideas and *will most likely not lead to healing of the wing*, which has a lot of bones that need particular type of splinting:

*https://theiwrc.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Duerr_Splinting_Manual_2010.pdf*


If Gremlinblue doesn't find too complicated, he / she can read this very helpful document and try to apply the indications. 


These are the pages about the identification and splinting of wing bone fractures but a lecture of the entire diocument is very useful, as contains many other indications, like the fact that antibiotics are mandatary in any fracture etc:


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

gremlinblue said:


> That second video link was very helpful, thank you! I love how they demonstrate on big birds - with two people. As soon as I can get a second person to help, I will probably try to re wrap the wing. I notice they wrap the wing by itself, then wrap the wing to the body - I just wrapped the wing to the body to immobilize it. I wonder if gauze would be better than masking tape, then the tape over the top. I'm worried about the tape pulling out feathers. Although masking tape doesn't usually stick that hard.


Whatever seems good to you. People use medical tape to bandage the broken wing and legs as well. That gauge is probably used because they have done it temporarily. I actually wanted to show figure 8 wrap and how it is done.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

AndreiS said:


> Kiddy, I hope you won't take it as an affront, but those videos are made by amateurs, without any experience or accreditation.
> 
> Here is a document with very helpful illustration for identifying and imobilising each particular bone in bird's body, if broken. The document is created by an accredited rehabber with long experience. If you compare those videos with the info in this document, you discover that the videos are made following simplistic ideas and *will most likely not lead to healing of the wing*, which has a lot of bones that need particular type of splinting:
> 
> ...


Andrei, everyone has a right to say their opinions and I don't mind anything until people be rude to each other. 
You have shared a good link but I too shared the same if you have seen my post 

Also the video I shared is from Dr . Ross Perry who is a well known vet and not amateur. Google to know more about him.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

kiddy said:


> Whatever seems good to you. People use medical tape to bandage the broken wing and legs as well. That gauge is probably used because they have done it temporarily. I actually wanted to show figure 8 wrap and how it is done.


The medical tape may make a lot of mess, they attach too firmly and lot of feathers will be pulled out when removing the tape.




> Also the video I shared is from Dr . Ross Perry who is a well known vet and not amateur. Google to know more about him.


Dr. Ross Perry doesn't appear in any of the two videos in your post, this is why I made that remark. Here is a video with doctor Perry's first considerations about a broken wing. A helpful video, I hope:


*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q49dugXGQTo*


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## gremlinblue (Sep 15, 2015)

All of the information has been quite interesting. 

Tape - I plan on continuing to use masking tape. It holds, but not so tight that it will pull out the feathers.

Figure 8 wrap - I think I will wait a day or two and see how she settles in before I try to undo the tape and re wrap the wing. I have to wait until I have someone to help anyway...

Medication - I plan on putting some neosporin on the wing in the morning. I think I can do so without un taping it. Not sure if it will help, but it certainly can't hurt.

This is not my first time caring for a wild bird. Usually, the bird is not injured (or at least not severely injured) and is ready to fly away within a few days. Or, it is a young bird that just needs to grow up. Or it is so badly injured that it only survives a day or two before passing - usually from infection from a cat or dog bite. The last dove I was brought had been run over by a car. It was so badly damaged, that it only survived less than 24 hours, but at least it had a peaceful place to die. This one seems healthy enough, and has already survived at least 2 days in my friend's duck pen, so I'm hopeful it will survive. I doubt it will fly again. I have done lots of research online, but it only shows you so much. I joined this forum to hopefully benefit from all of your experience dealing with birds. So far you all have been quite helpful and I really do appreciate it. 

Andreis, your post seems to have multiple copies of the same pages posted, as well as being the same pages that you posted a link to. I did follow the link, and I read the information there. Thank you. And just so you know, I did not find it too complicated, however I would rather not stress the dove anymore at this point. Oh, and I am a "she" - just so you know....... 

She finally calmed down enough to eat a bit of seed this evening, but then she tipped over when she tried to hop out of the seed dish. I had to help her back to her feet. She seemed to accept my help without panicking like she had earlier in the afternoon when I had to help her up. Once she accepts me a bit more calmly, I will try to examine the wing a bit closer. My first assessment is that the joint is broken, not the middle of the bone. I'm not sure if it is broken or dislocated at the joint, or if it is a broken bone. I am also not sure how much damage was from the initial injury, and how much was done from her dragging the wing and stepping on it while she was in the duck pen. (of course "she" is arbitrary, since I have no way of knowing at this point if it is a male or female). 

I may see if I can get some mealworms to feed her. My ring neck doves love them, and it would be a bit of added protein to help her build up the muscle in the wing. And maybe it would help her like me more.....Hmmmmm I'll have to find a ride to WalMart.....


Okay - I uploaded the picture from my camera that I took this afternoon when I had the bird in the outdoor aviary. You can kind of see on the wing where it is a bit dirty looking.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

AndreiS said:


> The medical tape may make a lot of mess, they attach too firmly and lot of feathers will be pulled out when removing the tape.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I would get the tape wet before removing it with the help of wet cotton ball and go slow with it so it doesn't pull off any feathers. 
It was mentioned under Dr. Ross Perry 's name, I wonder if someone else can post with someone else's name. It has been done on a big hawk so easy to understand.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

gremlinblue said:


> All of the information has been quite interesting.
> 
> Tape - I plan on continuing to use masking tape. It holds, but not so tight that it will pull out the feathers.
> 
> ...


I can understand your point that you aren't able to get someone for help but I think you should try it as in emergency conditions because once the bones start weaving, if they join in wrong place, they will leave the bird disabled forever so the most important for bird is to bring his wing to normal place as much as you can and tape it. The more is the delay, the less are the chances of her fly again. A wild bird will never allow you to examine the wing and will never feel comfortable when you touch her until too tame so a day or two will not make any difference in her behavior. It is another thing that she started eating, when they are hungry they will eat but to touch a broken wing is the thing they will never feel comfortable with but you have to do it to help her. May be your efforts could make her fly again, many times the birds with broken wings heal up and fly. 
Thanks again for your care for this bird and for other birds you have been helping.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Forgot to mention, pigeons and doves don't eat worms, meal worms can give them tape worms so not recommended. For proteins you can give them lentils, peas and other legumes but not the worms.


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

gremlinblue said:


> Medication - I plan on putting some neosporin on the wing in the morning. I think I can do so without un taping it. Not sure if it will help, but it certainly can't hurt.


If there is a fracture, oralor injectable antibiotics are needed. Same for open wounds.



> Or it is so badly injured that it only survives a day or two before passing - usually from infection from a cat or dog bite. The last dove I was brought had been run over by a car. It was so badly damaged, that it only survived less than 24 hours, but at least it had a peaceful place to die.


The dog or cat bite induce sepsis, general body infection, bacteria entering the blood. This can be prevented by injectable antibiotics, ofcourse, if given not too late. Oral antibiotics are also helpful in less serious infections.




> This one seems healthy enough, and has already survived at least 2 days in my friend's duck pen, so I'm hopeful it will survive.





> My first assessment is that the joint is broken, not the middle of the bone.


If is at you for two days, adding the possible several days from trauma at the moment you found him, and if there is a fracture, the broken bone already joined. And if the fracture is close to join, most likely the bigger segment joined the next bone, not the shorter segment. That means the bird will be flightless for life.




> I may see if I can get some mealworms to feed her. My ring neck doves love them, and it would be a bit of added protein to help her build up the muscle in the wing.


Buy some dove seed mix from a pet shop. There are some excellent products. Also give calcium gluconate and in future, if you gonna keep the bird indoors, deprived of direct sunlight, he / she will need D3 vitamin for the assimilation of calcium. There are some products containing the vitamins A, D3 and E (AD3E) at veterinary drugstores.

Also, the bird needs periodically B vitamin complex and as frequent as possible probiotics,which will fortify him / her against diseases.


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## gremlinblue (Sep 15, 2015)

kiddy said:


> I can understand your point that you aren't able to get someone for help but I think you should try it as in emergency conditions because once the bones start weaving, if they join in wrong place, they will leave the bird disabled forever so the most important for bird is to bring his wing to normal place as much as you can and tape it. The more is the delay, the less are the chances of her fly again. A wild bird will never allow you to examine the wing and will never feel comfortable when you touch her until too tame so a day or two will not make any difference in her behavior. It is another thing that she started eating, when they are hungry they will eat but to touch a broken wing is the thing they will never feel comfortable with but you have to do it to help her. May be your efforts could make her fly again, many times the birds with broken wings heal up and fly.
> Thanks again for your care for this bird and for other birds you have been helping.


The wing is taped in a "normal" position. It was floppy at the joint, not anywhere else, that is why I was thinking the joint was broken or dislocated. She is already more calm when I am around her. I doubt she will fly again, but that it fine - she has a home for as long as she needs it.



kiddy said:


> Forgot to mention, pigeons and doves don't eat worms, meal worms can give them tape worms so not recommended. For proteins you can give them lentils, peas and other legumes but not the worms.


Really? My Ring Neck doves have always loved mealworms and have never had tapeworms. My finches and button quail love them also. I have never had any issues feeding mealworms to my birds. 




AndreiS said:


> If there is a fracture, oralor injectable antibiotics are needed. Same for open wounds.


Unfortunately, I cannot afford that. It would require a visit to a vet that handles birds, and they are few and far between, as well as expensive.




AndreiS said:


> The dog or cat bite induce sepsis, general body infection, bacteria entering the blood. This can be prevented by injectable antibiotics, ofcourse, if given not too late. Oral antibiotics are also helpful in less serious infections.


I already knew this. Usually, by the time the birds are brought to me, it is too late for medication, even if I could afford it.




AndreiS said:


> If is at you for two days, adding the possible several days from trauma at the moment you found him, and if there is a fracture, the broken bone already joined. And if the fracture is close to join, most likely the bigger segment joined the next bone, not the shorter segment. That means the bird will be flightless for life.


Even if the dove is flightless, that will not be a problem...as I stated before, this dove has a home with me for as long as it is needed.




AndreiS said:


> Buy some dove seed mix from a pet shop. There are some excellent products. Also give calcium gluconate and in future, if you gonna keep the bird indoors, deprived of direct sunlight, he / she will need D3 vitamin for the assimilation of calcium. There are some products containing the vitamins A, D3 and E (AD3E) at veterinary drugstores.
> 
> Also, the bird needs periodically B vitamin complex and as frequent as possible probiotics,which will fortify him / her against diseases.


I already have a good quality seed mix - it is the same I have been feeding my birds for the past 40+ years. All my birds also have access to mineral blocks and cuttlebone. The dove is only inside until it can handle itself in the outdoor aviary. It is receiving sunlight daily now, and once it moves to the outdoor aviary, it will have its choice of sun or shade. 


.


Update for today - she seems to be settling in quite well. She stays calm when I am close to her now - I can get my hand within a couple of inches before she starts to move away. She is walking all around in the little hospital cage without tipping over. She is also preening her other feathers. The wing does not look to have slipped out of the tape at all. Since I was able to really look at her closer today, it appears my quick emergency taping was actually pretty darn good! Both wings are sitting against her body in the same position, so I got my positioning just right. She seems quite comfortable - not shrugging that wing or trying to flip it in to position like she was when it was dragging loose. I dabbed a bit of the neosporine on both sides of the wing - hopefully it will work its way under all those feathers..... I'll wait a bit before I try to see if she wants a bath. I think it is more important for the wing to heal a bit first. Right now she is sitting with her uninjured wing towards the sun looking around. She is watching me as I type this.....


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## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

> Unfortunately, I cannot afford that. It would require a visit to a vet that handles birds, and they are few and far between, as well as expensive.


Oral antibiotics may not need vet visit. You buy amoxicillin from human drugstore and give 30 mg / day. But your bird may have only a luxation, if is so comfortable.



> I already knew this. Usually, by the time the birds are brought to me, it is too late for medication, even if I could afford it.


Injectable antibiotic, at the least the one I use, Lincospectin, works wonders even in advanced cases so making a try may be a good idea.



> I already have a good quality seed mix - it is the same I have been feeding my birds for the past 40+ years. All my birds also have access to mineral blocks and cuttlebone. The dove is only inside until it can handle itself in the outdoor aviary. It is receiving sunlight daily now, and once it moves to the outdoor aviary, it will have its choice of sun or shade.


Sounds great, I'm glad for him / her!


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

If meal worms are carrying tapeworms, pigeons will get infested with them, doves are the same as far as I know. Somebody with dove experience can tell better though. 

Glad to know she seems improving. Still think the taping should be in a proper way, if you think it is, then good. 
No need to bathe her right now. They take bath themselves when they feel like, you will just have to keep a large dish of water and she will do by herself but let her heal first.


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## gremlinblue (Sep 15, 2015)

Well, I had an extra pair of hands to help me today, so I cleaned up the wing a bit and rewrapped it. 

Here is a picture of the underside of the wing. We slathered the whole area with neosporine cream.









The black looking area close to the body is the scabbed area. We put the neosporine all along where the feathers were gone so it could coat any injured area.


And here is a picture of the wing wrapped. I used gauze (in a figure 8 wrap) and secured it with masking tape. It has held all day today so far, so I think it will be okay (I hope).


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Yes, hope it works and really wish and pray this bird could fly again. 
Thanks for your care for this beautiful bird in need.


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## gremlinblue (Sep 15, 2015)

Update - This mourning dove is doing quite well so far. (Yay!!!) I rewrapped the wing last night. It looks all scabbed and crusty, but no sign of ooziness or infection. Also, no "sick" odor from it. I did put another dose of neosporin cream on it. 

I was finally able to put a perch back in the cage for her. For the first several days, she would trip over anything that wasn't perfectly smooth and tip over and have a hard time getting up. Now, she walks all over the little cage, is eating and drinking well. So I thought I would try the perch. She slept on it last night, and seems to be so glad to have the branch to perch on. So far she is having no more balance problems. She seems to be getting better at dealing with the broken wing. I was able to only wrap the wing, and not have to wrap it to her body to hold it up out of the way - she is doing that on her own now.


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## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

In my opinion wing should be rewrapped exactly as done earlier if he has started holding it up now, it worked but giving support is much better for now, it wouldn't stress the bird in holding a broken wing and it would help him in joining it as well. 
Glad to know he is doing fine and feeling comfortable in his cage


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Looks like you've done a good job. You really should take the bird to a permitted rehabilitator though as state and federal permits are required to legally rehabilitate this bird. This is a good rehab group in your area: East Valley Wildlife

Terry


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