# to all mods, admins and others. Matriarch, Patriarch



## APF_LOFT (Aug 9, 2010)

why i always see a Matriarch are all this a female member of PT? Matriarch is for female only. the right word for male is Patriarch. i think there is something wrong with the system



patriarch [páytree rk]
(plural pa·tri·archs) 
noun 
1. head of family: a man who is the head of a family or group 
2. respected senior: a respected and experienced senior man within a group or family 
3. biblical ancestor: in the Bible, a figure mentioned as the ancestor of the whole human race, e.g. Adam or Noah 
4. Hebrew leader: in the Hebrew Scriptures, especially the book of Genesis, an ancestor or religious leader of the Hebrew people, e.g. Abraham, Isaac, or Jacob 
5. Eastern Orthodox bishop: in the Eastern Orthodox Church, a bishop of the sees of Constantinople, Alexandria, Antakya, or Jerusalem, and also of Russia, Romania, or Serbia 
6. dignitary of Latter-Day Saints: a high dignitary of the Church of Latter-Day Saints with the power to invoke blessings, especially one of the Melchizedek order of priests 


[12th century. Directly or via French < ecclesiastical Latin patriarcha < Greek patriarkhēs "head of a family" < patria "family"] 

Microsoft® Encarta® 2009. © 1993-2008 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.


matriarch [máytree rk]
(plural ma·tri·archs) 
noun 
1. woman head of family: a woman who is recognized as being the head of a family, community, or people 
2. strong senior woman: a woman, usually a grandmother, who is highly respected by her family and to whom the family turns for advice and help 
3. woman in powerful position: a woman who holds a position of dominance, authority, or respect 


[Early 17th century. < Latin matr- "mother," after patriarch]


-ma·tri·ar·chal [màytree rk'l], adjective 
Microsoft® Encarta® 2009. © 1993-2008 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

There's been threads on it

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f14/matriarch-47732.html

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f40/words-have-meanings-44123.html

A lot of forums allow you to choose your own titles.


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## APF_LOFT (Aug 9, 2010)

the system did a update.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

APF_LOFT said:


> why i always see a Matriarch are all this a female member of PT? Matriarch is for female only. the right word for male is Patriarch. i think there is something wrong with the system


1.'the system' does not know if you are male or female and there's no reason to ask
2. the 'titles' are just a lighthearted thing based on number of posts
3. it ain't gonna change


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## APF_LOFT (Aug 9, 2010)

it's a program bug it did debugging or update. since this is Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0 the vBullentive should update into a vBulletin® Version 3.7.1 or something.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

APF_LOFT said:


> it's a program bug it did debugging or update. since this Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0 the vBullentive will update it.


The registration process on Pigeon Talk does not require you to state whether you are male or female, OK?

If other vBulletin-powered sites see some value in asking for that information, fine. If we wanted to know, we could set it up to ask, but we choose not to.


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## APF_LOFT (Aug 9, 2010)

1.'the system' does not know if you are male or female and there's no reason to ask. 

thats why it need debuging or upadate so that the system can identify if you are a male or female

2. the 'titles' are just a lighthearted thing based on number of posts

may be you can change the Matriarch with something new

3. it ain't gonna change 

if you dont change it we are all going back to Middle Ages and the others are in Future ages. 

all system need update pal, you should know that because you are the admin.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

APF_LOFT said:


> 1.'the system' does not know if you are male or female and there's no reason to ask.
> 
> thats why it need debuging or upadate so that the system can identify if you are a male or female
> 
> ...



1 Admins have chosen to have it not requiring to know m/f so no amount of debugging will fix it

2 Why should they change if thats the way they want it

3 If it aint broke it dont need fixing !!


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## APF_LOFT (Aug 9, 2010)

Quazar said:


> 1 Admins have chosen to have it not requiring to know m/f so no amount of debugging will fix it
> 
> 2 Why should they change if thats the way they want it
> 
> 3 If it aint broke it dont need fixing !!



1 like pigeon it hard to know if they are male or female right? so they assume as a female 

2 the simple and corect answer here is they cant debug the system. so they leave it as a Matriarch

3 so PT will still be the same till the end of time? like racing pigeon we like to build better strain to compete in tough race. if you still using a thing from the past you become a l0ssseeer.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

APF_LOFT said:


> 1 like pigeon it hard to know if they are male or female right? so they assume as a female
> 
> 2 the simple and corect answer here is they cant debug the system. so they leave it as a Matriarch
> 
> 3 so PT will still be the same till the end of time? like racing pigeon we like to build better strain to compete in tough race. if you still using a thing from the past you become a l0ssseeer.


1. Maybe you would like to tell us why this question is so important to you personally? I for one am getting a little suspicious as to why you seem to be somewhat obsessed with knowing who is male and who is female on PT.

2. Since we invented the titles and set them up long ago, we could readily change them. But we don't intend to. I suggest you stick to topics you know something about 

3. PT will change in whatever areas we see good reason to make changes. This isn't one of them.

Hmm ... maybe I could think up a special title just for you. However, since I am - as you state - an Admin, it would be _my_ choice as to what I think might be suitable


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

APF_LOFT said:


> 1 like pigeon it hard to know if they are male or female right? so they assume as a female
> 
> 2 the simple and corect answer here is they cant debug the system. so they leave it as a Matriarch
> 
> 3 so PT will still be the same till the end of time? like racing pigeon we like to build better strain to compete in tough race. if you still using a thing from the past you become a l0ssseeer.


Guess you don't need to worry about that right now.........Cuz your still a 'Pigeon'


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## APF_LOFT (Aug 9, 2010)

Msfreebird said:


> Guess you don't need to worry about that right now.........Cuz your still a 'Pigeon'


you are right Matriarch. are you a male or female?

if i keep on posting i will become a Senior Bird then i become a Matriarch. wow how cool sex exchange


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## AZCorbin (Feb 28, 2011)

This is funny. Never noticed before. Now that I know I agree it should be changed.

After reading over those other two threads Print posted, I don't understand the people that say it doesn't matter?
What if it was translated into today's language and we just called all over 500 post 'Head Woman' or 'Top Female'
Would that still be okay?


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## APF_LOFT (Aug 9, 2010)

i think the developer of PT is transgender.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

I notice that you haven't answered my question, APF. Why do you want to know who is male and who is female?

Of course, if you are just trying to create arguments, fine ... but you won't even make 'matriarch' if you continue to do so


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Don't understand why this is such an issue. Surely there are more important things to worry about?


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## rpalmer (Mar 10, 2011)

APF_LOFT said:


> i think the developer of PT is transgender.


I am sorry bit I need to throw in my 2 cents.

First of all the newest software is not the best. It often and in this case best to run software that has all the bugs worked out. So you are in this case wrong. Also there is no "bug" to be worked out. So you are wrong.

When you have pigeons long enough you will see that the matriarchs rule the roost (loft), in an open loft. This is an open forum so like an open loft the use of matriarch is not only appropriate but complementary. So here you are wrong minded.

The rest of your comments don't merit comment or attention. Because you are wrong.

If you would like to try something right, you can start with your signature that is huge. It is a waste of bandwidth and is childish. You don't list your age so if you are in fact a child, pretend that you are a grown-up and make a change to at least it's size. If you need help in resizing it I will help you.


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

Jay3 said:


> Don't understand why this is such an issue. Surely there are more important things to worry about?


Same here, how much is the gender of a person going to matter here on PT.

If you are eager to know specific about some one, give him/her a message or check up the mug shots thread.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

AZCorbin said:


> This is funny. Never noticed before. Now that I know I agree it should be changed.
> 
> After reading over those other two threads Print posted, I don't understand the people that say it doesn't matter?
> What if it was translated into today's language and we just called all over 500 post 'Head Woman' or 'Top Female'
> Would that still be okay?


There is no 'what if' because it ain't gonna happen 

The whole thing of user titles was intended to be no more than a bit of fun, OK? If people want to take it seriously and make a big deal out of it, then that's their choice.

Let's all consider Rule #62


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

someone has allot of time on their hands...lol... counting me as I actually clicked on this thread to read it..lol..


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## rpalmer (Mar 10, 2011)

John_D said:


> There is no 'what if' because it ain't gonna happen
> Let's all consider Rule #62


Huh? I really can't find it.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

rpalmer said:


> I am sorry bit I need to throw in my 2 cents.
> 
> First of all the newest software is not the best. It often and in this case best to run software that has all the bugs worked out. So you are in this case wrong. Also there is no "bug" to be worked out. So you are wrong.
> 
> ...



PRICELESS!


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## APF_LOFT (Aug 9, 2010)

rpalmer said:


> I am sorry bit I need to throw in my 2 cents.
> 
> First of all the newest software is not the best. It often and in this case best to run software that has all the bugs worked out. So you are in this case wrong. Also there is no "bug" to be worked out. So you are wrong.
> 
> ...


all software or system have bug pal, like Windows 7 it need update too.

all the top perch of may loft is taken by cock pigeon. like you said this is open forum you can post anything you want and the mods can modarate it for you if you violated the rules.

if my comment dont merit comment or attention why you comment?

and my signature is right size 200x 700 plus i think. sorry pal if you have slow internet connection


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## APF_LOFT (Aug 9, 2010)

sorry pals you are army of matriarch and am only a pigeon dont peck me i cant answers anything you posted and sorry for bad english in our country we dont speak english


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## APF_LOFT (Aug 9, 2010)

i checked may signature it is 200x796 pixel to be exact it is in the right size sisters.


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## APF_LOFT (Aug 9, 2010)

John_D said:


> I notice that you haven't answered my question, APF. Why do you want to know who is male and who is female?
> 
> Of course, if you are just trying to create arguments, fine ... but you won't even make 'matriarch' if you continue to do so


did i ask if i want to know everything who is male and who is female?
i only ask one matriarch.

did i violated any law or rules? i just make a thread like the others did. sorry did not read there thread before.


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## APF_LOFT (Aug 9, 2010)

John_D said:


> There is no 'what if' because it ain't gonna happen
> 
> The whole thing of user titles was intended to be no more than a bit of fun, OK? If people want to take it seriously and make a big deal out of it, then that's their choice.
> 
> Let's all consider Rule #62


can you post the link of Rule #62?


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## APF_LOFT (Aug 9, 2010)

have fun mother and father dont be serious all the time. dont hurt your child pigeon am only asking hehehe.

pls check my oriental frill i want to know his correct color http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f13/oriental-frill-color-56655.html#post614808
all the matriarch needed here


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## AZCorbin (Feb 28, 2011)

John_D said:


> There is no 'what if' because it ain't gonna happen
> 
> The whole thing of user titles was intended to be no more than a bit of fun, OK? If people want to take it seriously and make a big deal out of it, then that's their choice.
> 
> Let's all consider Rule #62


I understand it is all to be fun, but mistakenly referring to a man as a woman is not fun is it? It is wrong on all levels. 

What if I answered all the Matriarchs post by addressing them as 'Mam'
Would that be wrong?


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## APF_LOFT (Aug 9, 2010)

rpalmer said:


> If you would like to try something right, you can start with your signature that is huge. It is a waste of bandwidth and is childish. You don't list your age so if you are in fact a child, pretend that you are a grown-up and make a change to at least it's size. If you need help in resizing it I will help you.


i notice you dont have any signature and avatar i can make one for you if you like a small one 1x1pixel or large one 200x800 pixel and 60x60 for your avatar


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

John, what ever happen to about Terry saying this? Why wouldnt this be ok?



TAWhatley said:


> I'm glad to see all the discussion here .. keep it going. You know we can have a poll to decide what "terms" to use ..
> 
> Terry


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Rule 62, "Don't take yourself too darn seriously,"


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

precisely!!


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## Tiplets (Aug 24, 2011)

rpalmer said:


> When you have pigeons long enough you will see that the matriarchs rule the roost (loft), in an open loft. This is an open forum so like an open loft the use of matriarch is not only appropriate but complementary. So here you are wrong minded.


I don’t think there should be Labels Period. But that’s just Me! Just because you have a Rank or Label, Doesn’t mean you know more About Pigeons then the next member that just recently Joined or anything else for that Fact! I just see it, as a bogus status clause next too the Avatar because folks can simply see how many posts you made or the date you joined on the right far end of the Members Avatar line. Again I just see it as a useless Status Clause that serves no purpose, except maybe for Admins or Monitors titles that folks can address or know who they are, If they need to PM or Ask Questions if they are having Problems.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

#63...Much ta do about nothing!


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Tiplets said:


> I don’t think there should be Labels Period. But that’s just Me! Just because you have a Rank or Label, Doesn’t mean you know more About Pigeons then the next member that just recently Joined or anything else for that Fact! I just see it, as a bogus status clause next too the Avatar because folks can simply see how many posts you made or the date you joined on the right far end of the Members Avatar line. Again I just see it as a useless Status Clause that serves no purpose, except maybe for Admins or Monitors titles that folks can address or know who they are, If they need to PM or Ask Questions if they are having Problems.


Well, it kinda makes a difference to me. When I ask for advise, I want to know the person's 'track record' that gives the advise. We have alot of members come and go here, and I've seen some wrong advise given from members that just pop in for awhile, then leave


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## AZCorbin (Feb 28, 2011)

Msfreebird said:


> Well, it kinda makes a difference to me. When I ask for advise, I want to know the person's 'track record' that gives the advise. We have alot of members come and go here, and I've seen some wrong advise given from members that just pop in for awhile, then leave


Well vbulletin does have a reputation ranking system. Where users can submit feedback on post. However it is not installed here. 
Just because users have many post prove nothing about the quality.


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## APF_LOFT (Aug 9, 2010)

I visited my loft and i found out that the matriarch is actually a male pigeon(sorry am only a pigeon hahaha) roosting in the top perch, they always have the terroritory, they block the trap door so that no one can enter and peck the young ones.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

AZCorbin said:


> Well vbulletin does have a reputation ranking system. Where users can submit feedback on post. However it is not installed here.
> Just because users have many post prove nothing about the quality.


True, Corbin - quantity needs to be matched by quality.

We did have the reputation system at one time. Unfortunately, it just got abused with some people using it as a sneaky way to have a go at others they did not like, regardless of the actual posts involved.


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## Wingsonfire (Dec 22, 2009)

John_D said:


> True, Corbin - quantity needs to be matched by quality.
> 
> We did have the reputation system at one time. Unfortunately, it just got abused with some people using it as a sneaky way to have a go at others they did not like, regardless of the actual posts involved.


Dang I dont like anyone, guess I missed out out hat one..


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## Tiplets (Aug 24, 2011)

Msfreebird said:


> Well, it kinda makes a difference to me. When I ask for advise, I want to know the person's 'track record' that gives the advise. We have alot of members come and go here, and I've seen some wrong advise given from members that just pop in for awhile, then leave


How can you decipher “The Persons Track Record” by the number of Post??? Yeah I agree folks Come and Go and maybe you have received Wrong advise, But that can happen regardless of his Ranking. Plus as far as I know the ranking system is automatic and it changes only because of the amount of the posts the Individuals makes? Any one can be around Pigeons all their life and still make mistakes and give bad advise all the time… I have seen it in many posts, But it still most likely comes down to a matter of opinion, what works for me may not necessarily work for you! The rankings or labels prove nothing of your Knowledge! This is exactly the point I was making, You just Proved it!


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## AZCorbin (Feb 28, 2011)

John_D said:


> True, Corbin - quantity needs to be matched by quality.
> 
> We did have the reputation system at one time. Unfortunately, it just got abused with some people using it as a sneaky way to have a go at others they did not like, regardless of the actual posts involved.


Yeah, it is a dumb system. =]
The one that seems a little better is the 'Thanks' system. Since it can only be used to give positive feedback. It works well on smaller forums, perhaps it would work okay here.


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## rpalmer (Mar 10, 2011)

Post rankings are like signatures. Don't read them if you don't like them. (Thank God they are not as large)


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

AZCorbin said:


> I understand it is all to be fun, but mistakenly referring to a man as a woman is not fun is it? It is wrong on all levels.
> 
> What if I answered all the Matriarchs post by addressing them as 'Mam'
> Would that be wrong?


It is a word that is assigned as a title. It doesn't mean we are all females.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I think someone has a problem with being identified as the wrong gender. Could be a Gender-Phobe? LOL.


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## APF_LOFT (Aug 9, 2010)

AZCorbin said:


> Yeah, it is a dumb system. =]
> The one that seems a little better is the 'Thanks' system. Since it can only be used to give positive feedback. It works well on smaller forums, perhaps it would work okay here.


i seen forum with Thanks Sytem and it is also Powered by vBulletin®

check imserba.com they have the latest vBulletin® i think. here the link

may be someone can update it or get the latest version of vBulletin® so that we are not living in the past. if PT get the latest version vBulletin® it will have more ads. so we can live hapily ever after


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## rpalmer (Mar 10, 2011)

APF_LOFT said:


> i notice you dont have any signature and avatar i can make one for you if you like a small one 1x1pixel or large one 200x800 pixel and 60x60 for your avatar


Well I was thinking of using this:

CHRISTIAN, n. One who believes that the New Testament is a divinely inspired book admirably suited to the spiritual needs of his neighbor. One who follows the teachings of Christ in so far as they are not inconsistent with a life of sin.-- From THE DEVIL'S DICTIONARY ((C)1911 Released April 15 1993


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## APF_LOFT (Aug 9, 2010)

rpalmer said:


> Post rankings are like signatures. Don't read them if you don't like them. (Thank God they are not as large)


then you can also close your eyes if you see my sign. (thank god they invented photoshop)


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## APF_LOFT (Aug 9, 2010)

rpalmer said:


> Well I was thinking of using this:
> 
> CHRISTIAN, n. One who believes that the New Testament is a divinely inspired book admirably suited to the spiritual needs of his neighbor. One who follows the teachings of Christ in so far as they are not inconsistent with a life of sin.-- From THE DEVIL'S DICTIONARY ((C)1911 Released April 15 1993


are you mad? dont use any bible quote here. that bible can burn something here


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Tiplets said:


> How can you decipher “The Persons Track Record” by the number of Post??? Yeah I agree folks Come and Go and maybe you have received Wrong advise, But that can happen regardless of his Ranking. Plus as far as I know the ranking system is automatic and it changes only because of the amount of the posts the Individuals makes? Any one can be around Pigeons all their life and still make mistakes and give bad advise all the time… I have seen it in many posts, But it still most likely comes down to a matter of opinion, what works for me may not necessarily work for you! The rankings or labels prove nothing of your Knowledge! This is exactly the point I was making, You just Proved it!


What I actually meant was that if someone has alot of posts, I can go back and research their previous advise and the outcome of that advise. Whereas if someone comes in with advise, and only 15 posts, I have no way to check and see if this person knows what their talking about. This IS the internet, and alot of us here don't know each other. I would trust someone more that was established and stayed with the forum, over someone that just came in and I don't know what their experience is.
I don't care about the 'labels' up in the left hand corner, but I do care about the number and quality of posts that a person makes. I don't take just any advise....I research the advise given, weigh it, and use the best one that works in my case.
And for the record....I didn't say *I* was given bad advise.


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## Tiplets (Aug 24, 2011)

Msfreebird said:


> What I actually meant was that if someone has alot of posts, I can go back and research their previous advise and the outcome of that advise. Whereas if someone comes in with advise, and only 15 posts, I have no way to check and see if this person knows what their talking about. This IS the internet, and alot of us here don't know each other. I would trust someone more that was established and stayed with the forum, over someone that just came in and I don't know what their experience is.
> I don't care about the 'labels' up in the left hand corner, but I do care about the number and quality of posts that a person makes. I don't take just any advise....I research the advise given, weigh it, and use the best one that works in my case.
> And for the record....I didn't say *I* was given bad advise.


This makes more sense, I agree! And yes you didn't say YOU were given bad Advise, I was wrong in assuming. I see that labels and rankings in this type of forum or any forums, It fortes its intent badly and doesn’t play into its original concept here or in societies amongst others that are ranked lower! It really doesn’t espouse good will. And never will!
It really only works when its used, Mr., Mrs., Dr or in the ranking or ratings of competitions’ other then that, its useless in this type of environment! I guess it could be seen or said that the Higher the rank & position one holds will always hurt more, when they slip, fall or make mistakes when entitled or labeled in such positions! “With great power there must also come-great responsibility” The Labels or Ranks “Titles” used here in this Forum don’t convey or carry that responsibility, that’s why I say they are useless & bogus.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

.....what in the world is this thread _about_ ???????


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

APF_LOFT said:


> i seen forum with Thanks Sytem and it is also Powered by vBulletin®
> 
> check imserba.com they have the latest vBulletin® i think. here the link
> 
> may be someone can update it or get the latest version of vBulletin® so that we are not living in the past. if PT get the latest version vBulletin® it will have more ads. so we can live hapily ever after


PT is part of pigeon.biz and is owned by Keebali Media. We (mods/admins) do not have any control over which version of the software is used. 

If what we have here is not to your liking, then I suggest you get yourself a vBulletin license and develop your own bulletin board to suit your requirements.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Jaye said:


> .....what in the world is this thread _about_ ???????


I think you are quite justified in asking, Jaye.

It started off with a question which was answered, but evidently not to the liking of an argumentative questioner, and developed into a needle match about signatures, amongst other things.

Maybe we should just do away with both titles and signatures 

Meanwhile, I got two pigeons to transport 200 miles and two more for rehoming to collect on the way. Have a nice day.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Jaye said:


> .....what in the world is this thread _about_ ???????


Darn if I can figure it out ???


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