# how many young birds left after this season



## adamant (Apr 16, 2009)

well after 47 birds i am down to 7. i was talking to a member and he was down to 1..


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## Guest (Oct 19, 2009)

adamant said:


> well after 47 birds i am down to 7. i was talking to a member and he was down to 1..


heard it was a bad year for racing all over the country this year


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## Lovelace (Jan 10, 2008)

I started the races with 31 down to 28


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## Guest (Oct 19, 2009)

Lovelace did you do open loft again this year ? just curious?


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## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

Started 46 down to 10.


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## A_Smith (Aug 8, 2006)

I started with 53 have 14 in the combine truck(s) today. 1 yb still at home.


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## whitesnmore (Sep 9, 2004)

Started with 48 for week 1 and ended on week 11 with 33. Better than most years!! I too have heard of alot of losses.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I really appreciate you all being honest here. I am in shock at some of the staggering numbers. Is it weather, other phenomina?

What could be the reason why so many birds have been lost-any idea what happened to them, and has there been any account of the lost birds by rehabbers??

I sure hope for the sake of these little lives that these numbers decrease in the future by whatever can or needs to be done.

I just had to ask....thanks for your response.


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## rackerman (Jul 29, 2009)

Just wondering why so many loses? I only have eight, so I am worried for when I start racing!


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## Lovelace (Jan 10, 2008)

Yes, I sure did do open again. I love the birds having their freedom


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## [MN]eXist^_^ (Feb 13, 2009)

24 to 12. 2many birds 2much work. Not enough attention.


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## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

Up one to 11.


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## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

12 birds.


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## adamant (Apr 16, 2009)

one more just came home after 2 weeks out.. i am up to 8 now.. i think some get hung up with other birds at the combine release and never split off and they fly to other lofts and hang out before the loft owner realizes that they are not his and tosses them out.....


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

Started with 26......Lost 6.....Gave 1 to a buddy,for his stock loft..Have 19 in the loft....Have my last race this Saturday.....300M + Bond Race...Weather forcast is rain for Saturday...So I guess Sunday will be the day....12 Cocks going to the race!! Alamo


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

adamant said:


> well after 47 birds i am down to 7. i was talking to a member and he was down to 1..


I am too embarrassed to be really honest here....many of you did better then me.....this year has caused me to rethink some of my ideas as to most losses being caused by less then perfect management or training mistakes. I'm ready to buy into the idea that something in the enviorment is causing a large percentage of homing pigeons to no longer find home. 

Which could be a bit scary if you think about it.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> I am too embarrassed to be really honest here....many of you did better then me.....this year has caused me to rethink some of my ideas as to most losses being caused by less then perfect management or training mistakes. I'm ready to buy into the idea that something in the enviorment is causing a large percentage of homing pigeons to no longer find home.
> 
> Which could be a bit scary if you think about it.


We are down about 50% of our birds on our ABQ team for the first 4 races. Funny how all of my birds left are from the same family that always does well for me. We are not having as good as results as last year. 

Now Warren I did not think you were a K factor kind of guy. You are the same guy that told me you can breed a family of birds that do not hit wires. Just razzing you. One environmental factor that we might want to consider is the overpopulation of predator birds. If you think of the area we fly over, canyon lands, pine forests, cliffs, river valleys, dessert etc and factor in the population over a 300 mile race. Our birds are out numbered by predators 10:1. Numerous times this year the birds have been coming in with hawks on their tail. Just an idea.

Randy


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

hillfamilyloft said:


> We are down about 50% of our birds on our ABQ team for the first 4 races....
> 
> Now Warren I did not think you were a K factor kind of guy. You are the same guy that told me you can breed a family of birds that do not hit wires. Just razzing you.....
> 
> Randy


Naw....if I am going to blame lost birds on something, then it's going to have to be a lot more exotic then something as mundane as K Factor....I am thinking that those new high tech military communication links are the cause...or something like that....but you are correct, in that some birds did find home and have turned in three 1st Place wins so far....and so they will contribute to next generation. That way I can breed around that military high frequency signal stuff.....


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

I mentoined a year or 2 back on a thread just as this about possible military radar or such. as in global losses that year many birds were plain lost in very large numbers. BUT as you rethink For here in the U S the hawk population has soared in recent years THE old cooper is here to stay and getting larger in numbers. PIGEON main fear is hawks And a hawk will scatter birds and cause panic. Chasing birds on there way home from the race off course in a panic. SO this very well can be a problem. What can be done NOTHING hawks are protected. Perhaps its going back to the early race years . BUT if it is really military related Race birds may become doomed. AND large teams also have larger losses because they will be loosing the lesser birds. Still think the hawks now play a role on race day more so then they have in 50 to 75 years.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

I usally raise between 25 to 32 YB`s each year,since I have returned to racing after an 11 year layoff....Pigeon guys here said my birds would not be any good,since I did not race them in 11 years,and I was going to lose most of them...My breeding would not be any good because I only bred yb`s in one year out of the 11 years...Well folks,here`s my total yb`s I have lost in the last 6 years since I have returned....
2004.......lost 8
2005.......lost 12
2006.......lost 8
2007.......lost 4
2008.......lost 6
2009.......lost 6....... 1 more race to go.....
My average is 7.5 birds per year.....I do have an opinion on this matter...I beleive alot of lofts here have better RACING pigeons then I do....I have good racing pigeons,but I have better HOMING pigeons then alot of people here have...I think your birds have to be both great HOMERS and GREAT RACERS at the same time...I also beleive too many lofts breed MORE pigeons then they really need,and can keep 110% healthy,all of the time....There`s an old proverb...Sometimes LESS is MORE !!!.....Try breeding LESS YB`s from your BEST pairs....Switch your eggs to foster parents...Breed 40 Yb`s,and give them the best care,and clean loft etc...And maybe you will not lose so many...Maybe your just losing all the DUD`s,that you should have not have bred, to begin with....Alamo


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## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

Alamo said:


> I usally raise between 25 to 32 YB`s each year,since I have returned to racing after an 11 year layoff....Pigeon guys here said my birds would not be any good,since I did not race them in 11 years,and I was going to lose most of them...My breeding would not be any good because I only bred yb`s in one year out of the 11 years...Well folks,here`s my total yb`s I have lost in the last 6 years since I have returned....
> 2004.......lost 8
> 2005.......lost 12
> 2006.......lost 8
> ...



You have to try the Duds to see if they are duds. Not everyone has a family of pigeons that you can't loose. Plus I think if you are not bringing in birds (possiable duds) to improve your loft you will slowly get passed.


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## Lovelace (Jan 10, 2008)

I agree 100%,Alamo I think if you watch your babies the first time they are let out, you will know the good birds from the bad. The good birds will take to the air and wont to fly.
The bad birds will be slow at going anywere. Just my toughts.


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## Ed (Sep 18, 2008)

adamant said:


> one more just came home after 2 weeks out.. i am up to 8 now.. i think some get hung up with other birds at the combine release and never split off and they fly to other lofts and hang out before the loft owner realizes that they are not his and tosses them out.....


OR... as I just found out myself from ease dropping on a conversation at my club... your bird trapped with someone else in your club/combine and they waited till the season is almost over and released it.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Ed said:


> OR... as I just found out myself from ease dropping on a conversation at my club... your bird trapped with someone else in your club/combine and they waited till the season is almost over and released it.


I expect that this happens more than any of us know. I've found out "accidently" through various sources that it happens around here frequently. I just can't prove it. 
But when you get a bird home after race season is over and it's chip ring is gone and the bird is in perfect condition...........well, you decide what happened to that bird.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

Ladies and Gentleman...Lets get ready to Rumble !!!....Say the words to the left,as the great RING anouncer does.....In one of the posts above,someone posted,maybe I`m not bringing in a new birds to improve my loft....Well,I purchased TWO 2009 YB`s from PATTI LOFT(Richie Zdan),out of the Central Jersey Combine....Now,let me say,I think Richie is the best YB flyer in the USA....He has been 1st...1st...2nd...2nd etc in the RPD awards for the largest catagory of BIRDAGE for a long time....Usally 3,000 to 4,000 birds per race....And there are 25 or more ALL-American flyers in the CJC.....My birds are Janssen based from Patti Loft...I bought birds from him back in 1984.....This year was the first time I purchased any from him in the last 15 years or more...I flew the two birds against my birds,to see if I needed to improve my breeding...Well,my birds,out flew the two DIRECT Patti birds every race..I only clocked one Patti bird,in one race...He was one of 7 birds on the SECOND DROP...15 minutes behind my first birds home...Does anyone really beleive I really need to spend thousands of dollars to improve my birds right now ??? What I need to do is improve my loft location by moving 30/40 miles north,to get on the line of flight.....That is my handicap,and will allways be so...I have only given my birds away to a guy many years ago...He was a new flyer,and my memntor asked me to give him a few birds..So I did..My mentor,Joe Imperator gave him a few birds also...The new man crossed Joe`s birds and mine...To make a long story short..The poor new guy was harassed in the club,because he won so much,so he went to another club,and they harrased him so much,because he won so much,the new guy after 4 or 5 years or so,quit flying pigeons...I went up and got two hens from him,that had my blood lines...One RED hen became my 2nd foundation hen,responsible for all the RED`s I have now,that do so well for me...Even though I have the WORST loft location in my combine...Every member of my combine would swear to that fact...So how come a guy with the WORST loft location,who only raises 25 to 30 birds each year,does not lose many birds ??? I will not answer that for you... You will have to decide what the answer is for yourself...By the way,I only have SIX pair of stock birds..My stock loft has 8 large
nest boxes....I haven`t had 8 pairs of breeders in a long time...I might have 8 pairs in 2010...Plan on buying two pairs of late hatches from Patti Loft !!!.......Alamo


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

I started with 50 young birds, of which 45 were gifts from the new club/combine I joined (my first year participating since about 1984). Many of them were late hatches (some hatched in June).

I messed up training themn all together, with so many different ages. So I know that cost me some of the younger ones in training, but I did not have info on each and every bird when I received them. It was just "here are a few for you to fly" or similar things. I GREATLY appreciated each and every one of them. But I should have asked more questions about hatching dates, etc. My mistake. But I didn't want to have it appear that I was "questioning" anyones gifts, so I just thanked them profusely. I did win one Combine race when the winds were in my favor (which only happens one or two times a season, I have been told).

Anyway. Started with 50 and am now down to 9. I did have one come back after two weeks, with its chip band missing. I also had three come back near the end of the season, each individually on race Saturdays for three weeks. They were all healthy. So, those four were in someones lofts for sure.

I too am where most if not all would say is the worst location. I am in the "opposite direction and 40 miles past anyone else.

But........I don't care about anything I have mentioned above (except for the birds who don't have homes now or are "gone"). I had a blast.

I am currently attempting to train and get ready for this coming old bird season, fifteen very late hatches, and see if that works. I will only fly them out to the 300 in old birds. These additional 15 birds were hatched in September or very late August. I don't know if it will work. It is really hard to settle squeakers and train them, this "hawk" time of year. The hawks are circling overhead every time my young birds are out on the landing board. I have to babysit them and that takes a lot of time. They are just starting to spread their wings and go off the coop, so I can only baby sit them so much now. When I start tossing them, I expect lots of trouble.

Next young bid season, I will have just birds I have bred and know the ages, parents, etc.

I'm gonna kick some butt!

(okay, give me props for attitude) 

I do think (from all of my research and reading) that something is going on with radio or TV frequences. Some speculate it is the HD signals that are all the rage now. I am sure someone will blame global warming somehow. Some will blame the excessive number of hawks due to protection,and changes in chemicals used to protect crops.

It is probably the combination of many factors, and can not be put on just one.

But then again. I have had many veteran flyers tell their stories about losing all 26 birds on a twenty mile training toss on a nice day, in years past. Those stories are legendary.

So maybe nothing has changed. Just our perspectives.

I sure wish we had little tracking devices (gps) that were affordable, to attach to our birds. It will happen in the coming years, but alas, I will be too old to participate by then probably.

I figure I have maybe ten more years I can fly. If I am lucky. I hope to "get excited" (about 6:48 PM on a 500 mile race) in this sport, during that time. 

A 500 mile race in my club, is almost 600 for me.


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## Gnuretiree (May 29, 2009)

I've been afraid to tally how many I started with, but I am down to 28 birds flying now. 12 of those 28 never went to a race. I know I lost more than half of them though.


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## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

Alamo said:


> Ladies and Gentleman...Lets get ready to Rumble !!!....Say the words to the left,as the great RING anouncer does.....In one of the posts above,someone posted,maybe I`m not bringing in a new birds to improve my loft....Well,I purchased TWO 2009 YB`s from PATTI LOFT(Richie Zdan),out of the Central Jersey Combine....Now,let me say,I think Richie is the best YB flyer in the USA....He has been 1st...1st...2nd...2nd etc in the RPD awards for the largest catagory of BIRDAGE for a long time....Usally 3,000 to 4,000 birds per race....And there are 25 or more ALL-American flyers in the CJC.....My birds are Janssen based from Patti Loft...I bought birds from him back in 1984.....This year was the first time I purchased any from him in the last 15 years or more...I flew the two birds against my birds,to see if I needed to improve my breeding...Well,my birds,out flew the two DIRECT Patti birds every race..I only clocked one Patti bird,in one race...He was one of 7 birds on the SECOND DROP...15 minutes behind my first birds home...Does anyone really beleive I really need to spend thousands of dollars to improve my birds right now ??? What I need to do is improve my loft location by moving 30/40 miles north,to get on the line of flight.....That is my handicap,and will allways be so...I have only given my birds away to a guy many years ago...He was a new flyer,and my memntor asked me to give him a few birds..So I did..My mentor,Joe Imperator gave him a few birds also...The new man crossed Joe`s birds and mine...To make a long story short..The poor new guy was harassed in the club,because he won so much,so he went to another club,and they harrased him so much,because he won so much,the new guy after 4 or 5 years or so,quit flying pigeons...I went up and got two hens from him,that had my blood lines...One RED hen became my 2nd foundation hen,responsible for all the RED`s I have now,that do so well for me...Even though I have the WORST loft location in my combine...Every member of my combine would swear to that fact...So how come a guy with the WORST loft location,who only raises 25 to 30 birds each year,does not lose many birds ??? I will not answer that for you... You will have to decide what the answer is for yourself...By the way,I only have SIX pair of stock birds..My stock loft has 8 large
> nest boxes....I haven`t had 8 pairs of breeders in a long time...I might have 8 pairs in 2010...Plan on buying two pairs of late hatches from Patti Loft !!!.......Alamo





ohiogsp said:


> You have to try the Duds to see if they are duds. Not everyone has a family of pigeons that you can't loose. Plus I think if you are not bringing in birds (possiable duds) to improve your loft you will slowly get passed.


First off, I am talking about bringing new birds to my loft not yours bud. that seems to make my losses go upward because they don't work for me. 


If you notice my smily face in this post, I was just messing with you!! Now as I said "you have a family of birds you have luck with" and I was pointing out the fact that everyone does not have that. Plus with me bringing in new birds to improve my birds I have even more losses. I have been racing for 2 years do you think if I sent you 10 pair to start with in 2 years you could have a team of birds that you would only loose 6 of 32 of whatever you raise?


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

OHIOGSP.....I was just fooling around also with the "Lets get ready to rumble" phrase...I know where your coming from...If you are a new pigeon flyer,you will have to wait a few years before you will have a FAMILY of birds you can count on...It was only when I crossed in 2 long distance birds,to my Patti birds,did I get a family going...I did,not really knowing that it was going to happen,SLOW up the Patti birds speed...What I did do was make them a stronger family,which I could clock in long races...Patti Loft does not fly OB`s....So the birds I have today,fly a little slower then I would like,especially as YB`s...But, since the two Patti direct birds I flew this season,did not beat any of my top 5 birds I raised,I guess my birds are doing OK...By the way,the 300 miler I just flew this past Saturday,I got all the 10 birds I bred home...The 2 Patti birds as of Monday morning are still missing...Saturday was a bad weather day here in West Virginia...I had rain for an hour between 1:30 to 2:30...There was rain at Parkersburg,WV almost all afternoon I was told...My birds have to fly through the Parkersburg area to get home...Since I am the only loft flying the race from my area,I took a hit...The closest loft to me is/was 70 to 80 miles north of me...Except for one guy flying out of around Altoona,Pa,all the birds with good speed were in the eastern,Ohio....These are the guys who fly in the Penn/Ohio combine...It was overcast for everyone,most of the day up there,but they had no rain......And so it goes...Alamo


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## Bluecheckard (Jun 23, 2008)

I start with 30 birds and got 13 left. I lost most of the test birds given to me by other flyer.


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## parrisc (Feb 14, 2007)

Year Trained after YB season Training Method 
2009 37 21 Point A to Point B. 20-22 tosses. Birds went to 1st race station.(100 miles) 
2008 45 38 Trained in 180 radius 30 -35 tosses. Longest toss 35 miles 
2007 35 17 Point A to Point B. 20 tosses. Longest toss 65 miles. 
2006 31 11 Point A to Point B. 20 tosses. Longest toss 65 miles. 

Going back to my training method from 2008.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

Since I started racing back in 1984,I allways trained WSW of my loft....That is the race course direction my birds have to fly...In 2008,I started training South of my loft...I did this to save gas $$$ and time....I had better results,and more birds on the drop then I have ever had in the past...I really wonder,if training on the line of flight, is really such a big deal...Seems like good loft management,a good health system,and good training methods is the way to go...Ofcourse,a few good birds don`t hurt either....It seems if you asked 10,000 pigeon flyers their methods,you would get almost 10,000 different answers....The only common denoninator would be,a few good birds would be nice to have.....Alamo


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

Both of the last two above postings (parrisc and Alamo) are very interesting.

I fly from the southwest for racing, but trained south for 40 miles and trained southwest all the way to the first race station (137 miles for me).

Didn't work out so well. Not bad but not near good enough.

I have to experiment more I think. I guess the proper way would be to train half my birds as I did last year, and the other half as parrisc did in 2008.

Then compare the results.

An even better one would be to divide in birds into three parts and ad a training schedule like parrisc did in 2006 and 07.

A lot of work for sure, but the results would be interesting. If I have that many birds next young bird season.

Interesting study I think.


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