# pigeon parasite/bug?



## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Aias rescued a sick pigeon today. He found the young pigeon puffed up, standing in a pathway in a nearby park. The pigeon didn't resist being picked up at all, so is obviously pretty sick. Aias gave him a bath and found some bug crawling on him, which he flushed down the drain. Right now we found another, which I just killed. It's about the size of a smallish house fly, dark, no wings. Almost cricket-y looking. Red blood came out of it when I killed it, kind of a lot I thought. What was it??? It's giving me the heebie-jeebies! Blech!

Aias found it towards the evening, and the bird pecked at a little food and drank a little water. Green watery poo. I'm hoping the pij at least makes it thru the night, and then we can take him to the vet tomorrow.

Any ideas about the gross disgusting bug?

Thanks!
Sabina


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Sabina,

Those are pigeon flies .. actual name .. hippoboscid .. http://creatures.ifas.ufl.edu/livestock/pigeon_fly.htm

They are blood suckers so do need to be gotten off the bird. If the bird is already sick or injured, these flies will just further weaken the bird. They are difficult to kill .. sort of built like armor plated tanks. A bird insect spray from the pet store should get them. Also dusting the bird with Sevin dust will at least make them jump ship.

If you are taking the bird to the vet, be sure to mention the parasites (flies) .. bird probably also has mites/lice.

Terry


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Thanks Terry for your quick reply. Though I am now thoroughly grossed out!
Aias did use some bird lice spray after we found the second fly. 
Ok well we just got some kitten chow (sorry Phil, we do intend to come up with a better substitute by tomorrow) so I'm off to feed the bird, hopefully without encoutering any more yucky bugs!


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

sabina said:


> It's about the size of a smallish house fly, dark, no wings. Almost cricket-y looking. Red blood came out of it when I killed it, kind of a lot I thought. What was it??? It's giving me the heebie-jeebies! Blech!
> 
> Aias found it towards the evening, and the bird pecked at a little food and drank a little water. Green watery poo. I'm hoping the pij at least makes it thru the night, and then we can take him to the vet tomorrow.
> 
> ...


Hi Sabrina, 



The Hippoboscidae, or 'Pigeon Fly' or 'Pigeon Louse' looks exactly like a regular House Fly, but behaves differently.

What you describe, as 'wingless' and 'crickety' has me wonder just what the heck this thing was?

Now I am feeling creeped out...!


Well...keep him 'warm' of course...and maybe provide ACV Water for now...

See about a fecal tomorrow for coccidiosis or other enteritis-makers...


Good luck with him..!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Thank you for taking care of this sick bird.

Could you please review the protocal for stablizing the bird and make sure this has been done?

Thank you

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=8822


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Sabina, I'm like Phil in that pigeon flies do have wings and can fly. They look just like a house fly but are flatter looking and really hard to kill. Our most recent baby must have had a large number on him because we're finding them on lampshades, windowsills, etc. They are much easier to catch tho than a regular house fly.

As far as I know they are species specific so other than being a nuisance to you they won't hurt you.

Remember, I told you that you and Aias would get more pigeons.  I wish you the best with this one.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Lady Tarheel said:


> They look just like a house fly but are flatter looking and really hard to kill.



Maggie,

If you get a bioallerthrin/permethrin base spray, they drop off like flies.  literally.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Treesa, thank you. I really hate those things. I call Lewis every time I see one so he can have the execution honors.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Lady Tarheel said:


> Treesa, thank you. I really hate those things. I call Lewis every time I see one so he can have the execution honors.


I hear you, Maggie! However, those critters I could handle! 

Could I call Lewis if I see a Cockroach (the BIG ones!)?! As mentioned before, I am absolutely *terrified* of them! Can't even get close enough to pick up a DEAD one! Now, that's FEAR!  

Hope you get rid of those bugs on AND off the birdies!


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

hi everybody i am Aias. one thing sabina didnt mention and which worries me is that the pigeon is excessively sleepy. sometimes he gets the energy to protect his turf via a wingslap or two but generally he is not that active. 
those disgusting flies are off him now, i got the courgage to give him a thorough inspection, even though sabina is the bug killer not me.
tomorrow we go to the vet. i hope he makes it until then.


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## Cricket (Sep 1, 2005)

Good Luck at the vet tomorrow and thru the night. He is a lucky bird that you two found him. I have used sevin dust and that stuff is great! Not pricey either. Keep us posted!


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Weeell, i didn't look THAT closely at the bug after squashing it, probably only a second or 2 before closing my eyes, shuddering, and throwing it into the trash. When i said cricket-y, I guess I was referring to that armor-plate look that Terry mentioned. Aias says the one he saw had wings, and it's POSSIBLE that the one i killed had wings, but i didn't look closely enough to see them. 

We have the pigeon in an aquarium with a heating pad. We've been giving water with pinch of salt and sugar plus nutrimin (I forgot about acv, thanks for reminding us Phil). He's been drinking a little on his own, plus we give some with a syringe by putting drops on the side of his beak. He's eating seeds a little, and so far we've been supplementing with kitten chow, 15 or so pieces at a time, a few times a day. 

Ok so i have some very basic questions. And thank you in advance for your infinite patience, cause i'm sure i've asked these questions in the past. 1) How often should we give the food and water, and how much? 2) When we put drops of water on the beak, should we put them towards the back or towards the front of the beak? 3) I am embarrassed to say, but we still haven't figured out this feeling the crop thing. Can someone please explain again, "crop-feeling for dummies"-style, what to do?

The pigeon has a vet appt tomorrow. So hopefully we'll find out why he's so sleepy and weak--he does peck and wing-slap, but very little flying (more like a flutter here and there). He's a bit older than simao was maybe, definitely heavier, but still teenager-looking. 

Thanks everyone for the encouragement, I first approached the news of a new pigeon with dread (ie fear), but I'm starting to feel a little more positive  

Sabina


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

The last hour was agonizing. At 5am, Aias woke up because the pigeon flew/crashed to the ground out of his aquarium (the aquarium is on its side on top of a tall bureau, and we cover it with a sheet at night). For the last hr, he seemed weak, some trouble breathing, and was turning his neck in awful ways. Occasionally he'd flap his wings. We didn't know what to do, we first thought he was taking his last breaths but then he started flapping and turning his neck around, and after he survived 30 minutes or so, i gave him water which he drank readily from the syringe. We kept him on the heating pad, and Aias stroked his head. But he just died. 
There was no canker, his mouth/throat was clear. Maybe it was PMV? But he seemed relatively normal during the day, this was the first time he turned his head upside down like that. 
It is seeming more like a pigeon hospice than rescue place here. This is pretty rough.
Sabina


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Sabina and Aias, I am sorry to hear this last one passed away. Frankly, it could have been something toxic that he drank or ate. Without a necropsy we'll never know.

I really hope you two can pick up a pidge that is relatively healthy and one you can enjoy rather than stay worried all the time. The important thing is that you cared and at least made the effort to help him.

When we started out rehabbing our first rescue was a very young healthy pigeon that we later released. However, the next 4 or 5 were all deathly ill and didn't make it. It was particularly hard because we had no idea what to do for them. It was because of those birds dying that we found a wonderful rehabber who trained us and several vets we could call on.

It is still hard.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Sabina and Aias .. I am so very sorry the pigeon didn't make it. Thank you both so very much for helping this bird. Often, they are just too far gone by the time we get them. I, too, hope that one day you can assist a needy pigeon that will bring you joy instead of sadness.

Terry


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Thank you Maggie and Terry, you made us both feel better. 

I didn't really think this one was going to make it, but after he got thru the first 24 hours, I had become more hopeful.

Do you think Maggie (or anyone else) that we need training? We've made mistakes, that's certain, but we've learned from them. I read a lot on Pigeon Talk (have lost at least a few nights of sleep getting caught up in old threads!), we've learned from going to the vet a few times. And of course, you all have taught us so much. I think if we were in over our heads, we would recognize and pass the pigeon on to more capable hands. I guess I'm answering my own question, but if anyone has other input, we appreciate it.

Regarding our lack of knowledge--I promise next time, we'll figure out the crop-feeling once and for all (you must think we're such dunces, even 14 yr olds on the forum can figure it out). 

Oh and Aias and I have a couple of disagreements about pigeon care, maybe you all could weigh in (and tell him I'm right  ). 1) He always bathes the pigeons when they first arrive, and to me, that seems like a shock/stress to an already fragile system. 2) He keeps the pigeon aquarium in our living room, which is warmer and more populated. I think it's too noisy, we watch tv late, the lights go on and off. I thought it should be kept in a small "closet room" that we have, which is dark and quiet. We had put Petra there in the window. But Aias thinks it's too cold there, AND he likes having the pigeon close by. Sorry to bother you all with small details like this, but i figure every little detail may have some impact, and I do like to feel we're doing the best we can!

Anyway, so as you can tell, we intend to keep trying, and hopefully will soon have a more positive outcome.

Sabina


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

You're right. I don't bathe the pijies right away. It is too stressful on them.
I bathe them only if they are very dirty and then after days, and only if they are not too ill.
Now for healthy tar covered babies, had a few this year, I do bathe them in about 12 hours if they are not sick or starved even sooner.
Also a very sick pij will prefer a darker and quiet room.

Reti


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Sabina and Aias...I add my condolences to those already posted! I'm so sorry you lost the pigeon. I know how are heartbreaking that can be when you think everything is improving and then, everything just goes downhill.

I know you both did all you could and the poor pij did not die alone...I'm so sorry!

HUGS TO YOU BOTH!


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

sabina said:


> Thank you Maggie and Terry, you made us both feel better.
> 
> I didn't really think this one was going to make it, but after he got thru the first 24 hours, I had become more hopeful.
> 
> Do you think Maggie (or anyone else) that we need training? We've made mistakes, that's certain, but we've learned from them. I read a lot on Pigeon Talk (have lost at least a few nights of sleep getting caught up in old threads!), we've learned from going to the vet a few times. And of course, you all have taught us so much. I think if we were in over our heads, we would recognize and pass the pigeon on to more capable hands. I guess I'm answering my own question, but if anyone has other input, we appreciate it.



For most of us, there is no one else to hand any of them to...so, usually, the only hope the Bird has, is whatever we can manage to do for them...

Certainly, if you have a friendly Vet, and can frame succinct quesitons when with them, it is a good opportunity for learning things they can relay or explain. This of course is a delicate matter, their time and knowleged is already under duress or pressure in many ways...and usually one does best to make such questions both brief, specific and well founded somehow, so the Vet can answer easily and in a short sentence or two...

The less one knows, the harder it is for a Vet to talk with one in ways where one may learn something, or the less patience or interest the Vet may have to even try, so there is a kind of vicious circle there.

Some Vets will resent it if one does have some knowledge and experience...

Too, there is lots of things the majority of even Avian Vets would not tend to know anyway, in lots of ways...

As well as that their diagnosis or understandings can be incorrect...so...it is an interaction-thing finally, where one is working 'with' a Vet, diplomatically, according to one's knowledge and the Vet's knowledge, and this is very different than when one is new to it all and appealing to the Vet for services or answers or diagnosis with little or nothing to evaluate it with.

Once one can frame short definite questions which imply enough context of understanding, experience, background, then the Vet can start to have something to speak 'to' or ;with' in their terms, when one has questions for them...or, when conversation about a particular illness or condition or injury is at hand.

This takes time and experience and reading and so on...to be able to do, but it is just the way it is. and of course not all Vets are going to be amenible or be the one which one wishes one had to go to.

Just like if one is talking to a Plumber or Mechanic or Carpenter - the more one knows about the subject, the better or more definite their questions can be, the more the professional can have something to reply to, to really talk with them about the subject or to get specific in real terms...otherwise, the professional is just having to translate in ways that are taxing or incomplete, or ois having to handle someone, which is not the same anbience or positive interaction type...




> Regarding our lack of knowledge--I promise next time, we'll figure out the crop-feeling once and for all (you must think we're such dunces, even 14 yr olds on the forum can figure it out).



Took me YEARS to where I finally tried it...

Now I wonder how in the heck did I ever get along without it????!!!

But too, there are various other things one does well to know how to do, which can get a Pigeon drinking or eating without per-se resorting to "the Tube"...

Especially when they are younger Pigeons...

There are many ways to do the tube badly, and create injury or death...so...there are various points to know and understand of course.




> Oh and Aias and I have a couple of disagreements about pigeon care, maybe you all could weigh in (and tell him I'm right  ). 1) He always bathes the pigeons when they first arrive, and to me, that seems like a shock/stress to an already fragile system.


Depending on the Pigeon, and on their condition, it can be definitely TOO stressful for them to be handled and forced to bathe, soon after arrival...yes...


If they have a 'poop butt', then of course a warm and gentle finger-massage-cleaning Butt-Bath should be done, and their Vent area made to be clean...

Otherwise, I would not bathe them 'just on principle'...but I would provide them a bath to take on their own, after a few days or a week of their being here...if I thought they might want one.




> 2) He keeps the pigeon aquarium in our living room, which is warmer and more populated. I think it's too noisy, we watch tv late, the lights go on and off.



I would say, that so long as the people move about innocently and easily, and are normal or talking in normal voices and not yelling or fighting...this should be fine. 

The Pigeon will accept the situation and be allright with it. People keeping their arms 'down' of course is best...where some people, when walking and talking, move their arms in various ways, and wild or feral Birds find this threatening. Too, if the people more or less ignore the Bird, that is best, so the Bird does not have to feel anyone's attention is planning something for him or her.

Dogs, Cats or children shold be kept away of course, unless the Children are emotionally mature enough to respect the needs of the Bird in the Bird's terms of things.

Their caregiver of course, should visit the Bird often, and or look in on them in a friendly way and nod or blink to them, then look away back to whatever... and or talk soothingly to them, and make adjustments to feed and water and so on by asking first, then reaching in s-l-o-w-l-y, to do it.

Get a decent Cage or two...skip the Aquarium...

And, unless it is a 'Baby', the Pigeon must be up 'high' somewhere, and by this I mean around people-eye level or so...and, to the side somewhere of course, so he feels that whatever movements of others as are going on, WILL go on passing him by.






> I thought it should be kept in a small "closet room" that we have, which is dark and quiet.



I do not personally think so...meaning, if one is to be the care-giver, I think it is best if the Pigeon sees one at ones routine ambience, and accepts one's gentle visits and interventions or glances as part of those routines and ambience.

No surprises that way...everything easy and normal...and poart of an ambient continuity of living...

An isolated wild or feral Pigeon, kept in some disused part of the house, being held or made captive pre-tem, will have a lot more stress if some wierd people-creature shows up suddenly, unexpectedly just now and then...rather then where the Pigeon is part of the benign ambience where soon they decide all is well, or well enough, and nothing much is going to be threatening, even if some of it is a little scarey or unsure.

Warmth is always better than 'cool' for any compromised ill or 'thin' or injured Bird...

And no air Conditioning drafts even if they are slight...so, one drapes a Cage if need be...and provides an electric Heating Pad under a towell...




> We had put Petra there in the window. But Aias thinks it's too cold there, AND he likes having the pigeon close by. Sorry to bother you all with small details like this, but i figure every little detail may have some impact, and I do like to feel we're doing the best we can!
> 
> Anyway, so as you can tell, we intend to keep trying, and hopefully will soon have a more positive outcome.


Yes...you will, too...!




> Sabina



Best wishes!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hi Sabina and Aias

Training is important. If you can spend an hour or so with a rehabber they can teach you how to examine a bird when you get it in, how to mix the formula, how to feed, what type of cage, bedding, etc. it would need, how to put it on a heating pad correctly, how to check the crop  - just the basics that would help you.

We're beginning our 14th year. When we started out we knew nothing until we found a rehabber who taught us those things at her home. Over the years, we developed our own way of doing things that are somewhat different from what we were taught but that initial training was invaluable to us. We also found a vet that was a great source of information and taught us a lot. I know many vets don't take the time so we are lucky to have ours. I can pick up the phone and call her and get an answer (matter of fact, did that twice this past week).

Another thing we did was to read everything we could about pigeons. We only got our computer about 1 1/2 years ago. If we had had the resources available to us 14 years ago that is on the internet I would have been a happy woman! So I would suggest you check out all the sites you have time for and learn that way.

Experience is probably the best teacher of all. We can now get in a pigeon and know, almost from the beginning, whether something is wrong and what to do for it. But, we still have our rehabber friend and our vet to call on if we get into something we're not familiar with.

Sabina, (sorry Aias) I agree with you about not bathing a bird for awhile. We do dust or spray them for mites before we bring them into the house but unless they have (like Phil said) poop encrusted we don't bathe them. Even the ones with grease or tar are given a few days free from a bath just to stabilize them. Unless, of course, the agents are in their eyes, beak, etc then you have to clean them. 

When we get a bird in we usually put them in a room by themselves for a couple of days so they can rest and not be so stressed. We can then take them into a room where they see us all the time and get used to the general household activities and noises. I have four lined up on one wall in the kitchen right now and they are so used to me walking around them they pay no attention at all. We also quarantine, particularly adults, birds in another room, sometimes for several weeks to make sure they have no disease that could be transmitted. We interact with them frequently throughout the day by changing their cages and just talking to them.

Well, golly, I've written a book after all but hope some of this helps.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Well done and said Maggie and Phil!!

Being a newbie to helping a pigeon can be so overwhelming! Having supportive help makes all the difference in the world - ESPECIALLY if one is a sick/injured pijie "magnet!" 

MANY THANKS!


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

thanks for the hugs mr squeak, so sweet  

phil, maggie and reti--thanks for all of your input. phil--our vet is different than most i think. no superior sort of attitude, very caring and easy to interact with. she sees feral birds for a donation, and i think has rehabbed pigeons herself. she taught us how to administer medicines into the crop and how to hand feed. umm and i said crop feeling, not feeding. i think we can actually do the feeding, just somehow haven't felt the squishy crop thing.

on aias' behalf, he says the last 2 pigeons both had poop butt and mites, and that's why he bathed them. petra didn't and so didn't get bathed. but maybe next time, he'll just spray and clean the necessary areas.

the aquarium is kept on its side, with a brick inside, the heating pad, food and water. it's on top of a high bureau, so it is eye level. what kind of cage do you mean phil? our apt is TINY (essentially 1 room), and we have negative storage space, so how big do you mean? would our cat carriers be better you think? we have a big one and a small one. 

maggie--it does sound like an hour with a rehabber would be helpful. anyone in nyc that might want to help us with that? should we get in touch with al streit/pigeon people?

it goes without saying that our greatest source of help, support and information is this forum. everyone is so very generous and kind.

ok hold on, do pigeon flies have a little thing hanging in the back? like a wasp sort of but not as much? that's actually why i thought they looked cricket-y, cause of the little extension, which at the time i thought looked liked a long back leg. something just flew by that looked very suspicious. i think we have a couple still hanging around actually. without any pigeon now, would they go after our cats? ok i have to go hunt this thing down. GROSS!!


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Sabrina, 


I guess an aquarium should be allright, kept on it's side and all...but it would make it harder then to close it for the Bird to stay in, while still allowing the Bird to see 'out' the front...so, I dunno, unless the sides are not draped, he could see out of those...

Or...

Just keep going to thrift Stores, Yard Sales, Flea Markets, till you find a smallish wire pen or Cage you like the size and look of...

For convelesing Pigeons, the Cage need not be very big at all...just so the Bird can at least turn around and have some options for itself...and it need not be tall, it can be low, or is even best low in case you need to put a Dove in there...


Babys do not need to be in cages...and are best if 'in' a Box on it's side...with a heating pad and towell over it, in the boxes then 'bottom'...and for this to be on some ledge or shelf or table top...it need not be high.

The Baby will stay put till it fledges, and at that time it is supposed TO be exporeing and gaining flying muscle and so on...so, no cages are needed. One either feeds them 'in' or in front of their 'Nest', or somewhere else then returns them to their Nest.


Wild or feral adult Birds when convelesing just need some way to be gently confined for their own safety, and for their caregiver's convenience of course too...so, whatever will work that lets fresh air 'in' without allowing drafts in...and which may be made to be decidedly 'warm' inside...should be fine.


And my own way of things, once out of the convelesent Cage, they spend a week or two free flying indoors here so I am sure of their health and strengh and so on before I release.

And by then the time I let them free rove in here, they are hip to how things are fase here and easy, so even though they are still wild and wacky, they are usually pretty mellow about it.

When I feel they are ready for release, I thin either just scoop them up, or I have to turn the lights out TO do so, and then I let them go...

So really, you should get a larger Cage too, if you can fit it in! - for those who are getting well, and who may wish to helicopter and so on, but are not well enough yet for release or free rove indoors...


Phil
Las Vegas


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

*pigeon flies, again*

is there any correlation between the health of the bird and their ability to keep those horrid pigeon flies of them? 

i am taking care of an adult pigeon which i found yesterday and it is infested with these disgusting things. i have removed 7 already but i just saw another one!

are healthy pigeons able to get rid of them?

Aias


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

sabina said:


> are healthy pigeons able to get rid of them?
> 
> Aias


I don't think so, but our domestic birds don't get those flies because we moniter them and they have access to baths and pigeon fly sprays that feral pigeons don't.

Pigeons DO become unhealthy from them (the flies), though. Their immune systems are compromised and then when they don't feel good they are less likely to want to bathe, if they have access to a bath or puddle of clean water.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Many have mentioned "bugs" on pigeons but once they have used the products suggested on this site - no more problem. Some bugs (if I'm not mistaken) are pigeon specific and won't go to cats.

I live in a 600 sq. ft. apartment and have Squeaks' cage on a table 17" off the floor next to my bed. His cage measures 29"L x 21"W x 23"H and gives him enough room that he can exercise his wings. This is the type of cage available from pet stores such as PetsMart and Petco. 

His home is next to a wall and at night, a tablecloth covers the top and 2 sides to help prevent chilling from the A/C. I also clothes pin a small hand towel across half his door.

Hope this helps...


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Phil--wanted to thank you for your response earlier. We'll start looking for a cage, maybe will check out Petco for one like yours Mr Squeaks. Thanks.

About the new pigeon, Aias picked him up yesterday evening. A puffed-out adult pigeon that was weak, just sitting on the ground. He looks like a big puffer-fish, one big round puffball--I've never seen one like that. I thought he must be obese, but Aias says it's just the puffing. Pooping a lot, well-formed white and dark green poops. Very dull feathers. Not eating too much, so we're going to start feeding him now. Aias just left to go to a pigeon supply store in Brooklyn to try to get some pigeon pellets, Sevins powder, and probiotics. I meant to get us stocked with everything in advance (new olive oil, probiotics, peas and corn) but of course, didn't get to it in time. I didn't expect another pigeon so soon!

I'm glad I missed the flies. Seven!!! I came home last night to sleep, then left for work this morning, so this is the first time I'm even really seeing the bird. Aias is concerned about the permethrin spray being toxic (that's what the vet had told him) so I think he just sprayed the pigeon's back, I'm not sure exactly. But anyway that's why he wants to get that powder.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Some members use an old sock to cover the pijie's head when they are treating for bugs...


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

So the spray we have is Four Paws Mite and Lice Bird and Cage Spray, and it says it has Pyrethrins 0.030% and Piperonyl Butoxide 0.300%. Aias didn't find the sevin dust at the pigeon store. But he bought Permethrin powder, and he was told to dust the cage and the bird with it. The instructions on the bottle are only for cattle, poultry, cats, dogs. So we were going to use maybe a teaspoon on the pigeon. It says to use 1/2 oz for animals under 20 lbs.
Any suggestions? Any toxicity issues? Thanks!


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

*sooo, another question*

the last bird we had, the one that originated this post and that died in less than 2 days, had a very soft ceres, is that common in young pigeons?

-- Aias


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

sabina said:


> the last bird we had, the one that originated this post and that died in less than 2 days, had a very soft ceres, is that common in young pigeons?
> 
> -- Aias


Yes, Aias .. their ceres are kind of pink looking and soft .. much different than an adult pigeon.

Terry


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

We have Benebac gel that the vet gave us left over from before. I can't remember how much we're supposed to give. Is 1 ml a day good? That's how much I gave yesterday. We're hand feeding big seeds, about 1 tablespoon or so every 3 hrs, then trying to get him to drink some water, which is harder than the feeding. Though he does drink on his own more than he eats. 
Oh another question. Aias thinks it's a girl cause there's not much irridescence on the neck (it's a gray pigeon with dark stripes on the bottom of the wings). I thought it was a boy cause it was so hugely puffed. How can we tell? Just curious, since we're thinking of a name.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

It is hard to tell, Sabina.
Boys and girls have irridescent feathers, boys more pronounced. Your pigeon is still too young to tell which gender s/he is and the irridescent feathers don't appear until later, 4-5 months of age.

Reti


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