# Help me help this pigeon please



## Drdoolittle (May 10, 2011)

Greetings pigeon lovers, 

found a young pigeon lying on the road 3 days ago ... I have tried to age it , but I'm not sure how successful I've been , so I'm going to attach some pictures hopefully . The pigeon has some yellow hair coming from his head - I think that's a sign he's still a young'un... I know very little about pigeons, although I have rescued and hand reared animals since I was young . I have been doing as much reading as possible . The pigeon was doing yellow/green runny poops for the last 3 days - after checking what this meant online, I realised the little soul was either starving or infected - I have booked him in to see the vet on Thursday evening . The day I fetched him home, he was pecking at my finger and at the carpet - I wrongly assumed this meant he was getting food , and instead of feeding him directly - I put food down for him - I'm guessing he didn't eat much in that 3 days , because he started to look depressed, and these weird cataract type layers formed over his eyes, and also the yellow/green , watery poops. 

I ran to his room , and with a syringe , fed him some soft peas with water ... Neither of us enjoyed the process - I felt like I was force feeding him , and he reacted in the same way , although he let me continue, while I did have to open his beak , once it was open , he would keep it open for me to slowly feed him . I think though he'd been pecking the wild bird seed.. he wasn't getting much if any inside him - I think the seeds were too big and hard for him - stupidly I didn't realize. :-( Anyway , the day after starting to syringe feed him , that's today .. his poops are firm , and black and white . The cataract like layers over his eyes have completely gone . ( anyone who can advise me what they were, and why they have gone ? ) 

I'm not sure how to tell when he's full - I've read to feel the bag under the beak , but I can't tell when it's full nor empty ! There is a bone under that , which feels very skinny, and goes right the way down , but I think that bone is something else, or ? 

Moving on .... Today , I soaked some of the seeds in water for a few hours and mushed them into pieces, he pecked away at them , and I saw pieces going in .. Does that mean there's no need to keep syringing food down his neck ? He can not peck big pieces, and he doesn't drink ... but the seeds were pretty saturated ... I think he is learning to peck , because he's not very good at it . He pecks my fingers also , but I think it's when he's frightened, or is he trying to eat ? 

...At the moment , I have him in my guinea pig room , this is a HUGE concern for me ...... We have 7 rescued cats in our house , and 2 giant breed rescued dogs, so the only safe place is the guinea pig and rabbit room - I am guessing this is hugely unsafe for the guinea pig and rabbit ?! Is there anything I can do at the vets on Thursday to make it safer ? 

Anything I can get him to give the pigeon , to make him less of a risk to my other pets , with whom he's sharing a room with . He has a cat carrier in the room , but since on day one he got his head stuck in the bars and made his beak bleed - I now leave the cage door open , and he walks around the room , and tries to fly a bit , and gets back in the cat carrier at night to sleep - Again , with the door open - ( please correct me if I'm doing anything wrong here ) .. My rabbits also free roam in that room , they won't hurt him , nor go near him .. that much I know . But I would like any advice on what threat they pose to my other pets - because I've been losing sleep at night , but I simply can't stick the pigeon back outside , because a cat or car , or human will surely kill it ! 

If anyone can clear up a few things for me that I mentioned above, such as .. his housing - is he okay wandering around the rabbit room , and going to bed on his own accord? ... There is plenty of hay in there for him to nest in , but there is also a rabbits litter tray , granted the pigeon stays away from it , and we clean it every day , but could this be a hazard? 

Feeding - Shall I carry on feeding him with the syringe ? I've been round every pet store in town , and no where sells this baby bird formula I've read so much about in the last 2 days !!!! They look at me like I'm crazy , where can I buy this ( I'm in the UK ) .. Or can someone send me some , I can paypal you some money first ... He is pecking - not very successfully , a very drawn out process, but pecking all the same .. based on this , would patience be a better alternative - Shall I leave him to eat himself and mill the seed into small pieces so he can actually peck them up ? 

Watering - He has not learned to drink at all yet - The only drink he takes himself, is via the seed mush I created for him , he pecks away at it , but as he's not very good at it , I worry he doesn't get enough water , seen as his poops were green , I gave him some water last night , and again today - His poops seem normal now , so do I continue to hand feed water ? 

And of course the question of if he poses any risk to my other pets and small child who stays here often . Of course having so many pets , we are accustomed with washing hands etc but anything extra we should know ? 

I'm sorry if I've offended anyone with my ignorance , or if anyone thinks I have done wrong by this bird - I feel a lot of my choices were stupid ... ie , not feeding him for the first 2 days, and instead assuming he was pecking up seed, when he clearly wasn't ! Also , leaving his box door open after the bleeding beak incident . ( I really thought he was going to snap his neck when he got his head stuck ) .... 
But please believe me when I say , I wouldn't be here if I didn't care about the pigeon , so I appreciate ANY advice or criticism anyone can put my way! 

The only thing I can't do , is stick him back outside ( as so many of my neighbors have advised me to put him outside, and apparently his mother will come from no where and feed him , even though we found him being dodged by cars on a dual carriage way 15 miles from here !!!! ) Whatever nature intended , it did not intend for him to be run over by a truck , so please advise me as if I'm keeping the pigeon with me until he is fit to leave - or stay - whatever you think is best for pigeon ! 

The vet advised on the phone that we put him to sleep , because 'hand rearing ' a pigeon is hard work - and not a job for humans but for a mum pigeon . :-( I always feel bad negating anything the vet tells me , because he is the saving grace of my house hold ! But in this case ... giving him a chance is better than no chance at all ? 


Lastly - Can anyone explain the cataract things that arrived , and then vanished completely post hand feeding ? Is it possible these came because he was starving ?

Sorry for the extended post, I just wanted to make sure I didn't miss out any points or questions, though I'm sure I'll have more to ask if pigeon makes it ( knocks on wood ) ..... 




























Thankyou 

Chantelle


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

You must feed the baby. He/she likely is 3- 4 weeks and hasn't a clue as to how to eat food yet. Please don't put the baby back outside because at this stage, the baby will surely perish.
Here are some pre-written feeding instructions which are easy, if you follow them


If you are seeing bright green poop, it could be the bird isn't eating enough on his own and may need to be hand fed. It also could be ill. Often the young birds will try to eat the seed and so folks assume they are eating when they really aren't.
It would be great if you could post a picture of the poop so we can give you a better opinion.
You can hand feed defrosted corn and peas. Run some hot water over them until they are defrosted and slightly warmed. Put the bird on your lap and hold it next to your body. If it helps, you can wrap a towel around it or put it in the sleeve of a tee shirt, with the head out the wrist. That confines them without hurting them and makes it easier to handle. Gently open the beak and pop the piece of corn and peas at the back of the mouth and over the throat. 
You will need to feed 40-50 per feeding and every time the crop empties until you know the baby is eating on his own. 
This is a wonderful method for teaching babies to eat because they feel the whole food in their mouth and it’s soft and easy to pick up and hang on to. The next step… seeds. 
The crop is located right below the throat and with food it fills up like a little balloon. The peas and corn make it lumpy and squishy.


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## Drdoolittle (May 10, 2011)

Thankyou, Charis . I for sure wouldn't put the baby outside - I am tired of the number of busy bodies round my area, who keep advising the baby is put back where I found it ..... What on the A66 ?!! 

40-50 peas per feed??? Wow , I surely have not been feeding it nearly enough :-( I too made the mistake of assuming he was pecking up seed, because he was but in tiny amounts - I guess this is because he was starving . 

I can't take pictures of the green/yellow poop because after the first hand feed, the poop has changed to a black/white .... and more solid , though not completely solid , slimey enough to slide off my hand when he poops on me ! I'll take a picture asap . 

Any advice on the other points - The risk to my rabbits and guinea pigs - The cataracts that appeared for 48 hours and then vanished post hand feed ... 

I am very worried about the pigeon :-( But I do not wish to put my pets at risk of anything dangerous - and it's important I remember , I've brought a wild animal into our home.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

It's Charis not Chris.

Your other animals should be fine although do wash your hands before handling the pigeon and after. The baby is just as likely to get ill from your other animals.
Actually, rabbits can be aggressive with other animals, at least mine were and I would not trust them alone with the baby. Perhaps you can buy some hardware cloth and wire it over the kennel door to contain the baby while you are not present. The best of course would be for the baby to be in a cage where he/she can see whats going on and have some light. Pigeons are very social. If you can find a cage to put baby in, hang a mirror in there so the baby can see him/her self. That will help the baby feel not as alone.
If the bottom of the cage is wire, put paper on top of the wire and maybe a towel in one corner for the baby to sleep on. Putting a brick on the floor of the cage for the baby to stand on would be helpful as well.
I don't know where you are located but it would be good for you to feed the baby more tonight even if the baby has gone to sleep. Once baby pigeons start to go down hill, they do so very quickly and it sounds like this little one hasn't had nearly enough food for quite a while. That's why the bone you felt is so sharp.


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## Drdoolittle (May 10, 2011)

Sorry Charis - Edited ... 

I'm in the UK , it's 4.30 .. I will go and feed the pigeon now :-( Poor baby . The rabbit won't hurt the pigeon , I'm 100% sure of that . He is very used to our waifs and strays coming to stay , including a couple of baby starlings he befriended last year . My concern for the rabbits and guinea pig lies with any infection or disease the pigeon might have - I believe it can be transmitted to guinea pigs especially ? I understand I sound a little cold hearted, but my family ( my animal farm ) come above all else, so I really hope they do not get ill . 

I will update later on , I am away to feed the pigeon . I hope it's not too late for him . 

Thankyou for your advice . If he makes it through the next few days, I will look into a cage for him , or more suitable housing. 

Speak later , thanks again 
Chantelle


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## Drdoolittle (May 10, 2011)

I have been up and fed the pigeon 45 peas - I can feel a small sack now -under one bone, and above another ... Is that correct ? The sack is not the first thing I come to when I run my fingers from his neck to his belly ..... I first feel a bone, and then a small sack like lump - and then another bone that runs underneath him . I wish I was more familiar with their build to know what's normal and what isn't ...... Am I supposed to feel a bone before the swollen sack , or does the bone mean the sack is still not full ? I'm scared to over feed him - He was so compliant through that feeding session. He kept his mouth open for long periods of time ! Poor thing must have been so hungry. 


I've let him back in the back of the cat box, and hopefully he will get some more rest -


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Too hard to tell what you are describing w/o photos, really. But 45 peas is more than enough...personally...in one feeding, I would not give that many. I would stop at around 20-30 per feeding.

If she/he seems to have taken them OK, then you are good for the day.

Keep us updated.


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## Drdoolittle (May 10, 2011)

I put the 45 peas straight down his throat!!!! Is this too many ? I have no idea - I only gave that based on Charis' Post ... I do not want to over feed. I will lower the number if necessary! He is not used to eating for a while , so this feed was probably gigantic to him .


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Just monitor this little guy's crop, food storage area (base of neck/top of chest, to make sure that the peas you have given are going through fine and he is producing a decent amount of droppings from the back end, and things should be fine, if you could also post up a photo of any recent droppings this would helpful.

Here is a post worth going through to get up to speed on squabs (baby pigeons):

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=522672&postcount=2

Good luck with him,

Karyn


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Didn't mean to panic you...if he did alright with that many, that's fine. As I said, some folks suggest that sorta amount. In my experience, they often end up throwing it up and less works just fine, too....

I am hoping the vet today prescribed some antibiotic. If you read this and they did not, call them ASAP and ask them to.


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## Drdoolittle (May 10, 2011)

The vet apt , isn't until thursday evening - which is basically in about 20 hours - If the vet doesn't find anything wrong with the pigeon , do I ask for anti biotics anyway ? Will I get into trouble for keeping a wild animal ? I realise you're supposed to have a license for this in the UK ! I don't want them to take pigeon to a wild life place where he has a good chance of being killed ..... 

What do I ask for anti biotics wise? Or will the vet definitely prescribe us some?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Chantelle, with regards to antibiotics, perhaps I am just not picking it up, but was he predator attacked, or just kind of weak, suffering from privations when you found him? Best to post up some clear, close-up photos of his fresh droppings, now that he has some food in him, to get a better idea of whats going on with him inside. Can you also gently open his mouth and have a look inside to see if you see any unusual growths (yellowish/cheesy looking).

Should be safe enough in the rabbit room, but it may be best just to put him in the corner for now and erect a small pen area he can roam, but not get out of (he's too young to fly just yet). Always good to be cautious, however, I don't think your other animals have a lot to fear from him. By confining him for a bit, and getting some those clear close-up photos posted (please see if you can borrow or better adjust the camera you have as color rendition is quite important for a proper going over), here a photo of what would be good in terms of color, clarity and closeness:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=137089&postcount=20

Karyn


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## Drdoolittle (May 10, 2011)

Karyn, 

I will try and take some photos tomorrow in natural daylight , but I'm so useless with the camera. That's why the photo of the pigeon came out so useless... 

As for his poops, well initially they were bright green/yellow and very slimey , now they are slimey and black and white but not solid like the ones shown , they are also pretty 'snotty ' . 

He was not attacked - as far as I know ... He was not bleeding , didn't have any cuts or visible ailments - He was however on the road - and was cuddled up in a ball trying to avoid the traffic. 

He doesn't seem to have anything growing in his mouth , I've seen in it numerous times while feeding him , and had a good look around , more out of curiosity than anything .

When you say he's to young to be flying , does that mean he shouldn't be flying ? Because he does fly , he flies up onto the top of a barrel of hay I have in that room - There's no way he would get so high without flying up , he alternates between being on the ground and being on that barrel when I go check on him . Should I curb this activity for his own safety ? I have one of these that I used to use for my guinea pigs 
But I am scared of him getting his head stuck through the bars , like he did with the cat carrier - He gets really upset when I try and cordon him in . He starts bashing around and flapping his wings and cheeping . 

I hope someone can offer me advise before the vet trip , which is looming . What am I asking the vet exactly ? Because I'm starting to feel like , I'm going to be turning up with a pigeon , and the vet's not going to be sure what I want/need him to do .... 

Am I asking for anti biotics? Is it better to be safe than sorry - what reason do I give to the vet for wanting the anti biotics - I do not mind paying for a consultation , and some medication ... But I'm not really in a position to be shelling out for numerous tests and diagnoses along the way - I have a house full of animals , who come with all their own problems , so I'd appreciate keeping the vet trip as succinct as possible . If I hand over the pigeon and say 'do what you can for him ' ... The list could* be endless !


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Chantelle, the photo I linked is of dropping from an adult pigeon on a seed diet, so your little one's will not start look like these for a number of weeks yet, until he is weaned to seeds, the photo was more to illustrate the closeness and composition of how the photos of his dropping should be. While on formula his droppings will be loose and quite wet, but you are going to have to have a good look at the link I gave you to get a better idea of how to get more food into him, like the bottle and latex slit method, or syringe and slit method.

The reason for the photos is to get an idea if he even needs any meds or just needs care, safety food and water, if he is not hurt or attacked, may not even really need to see a vet, especially one that has little to no experience with pigeon's, outside of the fact the vet will be able to prescribe any meds needed, you may be better off with Phil, and others here, to get this little ones raised up.

Karyn


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## Drdoolittle (May 10, 2011)

Karyn , 

I hear what you're saying . In which case I may use the vet appointment to instead catch up on a couple of due vaccinations in my house . A poster above stated - S/he hoped I'd got some anti biotics , and if not, then I should call the vet 'ASAP' to get some prescribed . Hopefully they will be along soon to advise me further on that front , or at least before the time of the vet trip tomorrow , by which point I will have to have decided whether to take him up or not . 

I will most definitely have another go at taking poop photos tomorrow - Did you have a look at the guinea pig run ? What do you think about putting him in that ( without piggys ) . Could he get his neck stuck again in the bars ? Perhaps I will use the pieces from that to divide the room in 2 , and do as another poster said yesterday , and put some cloth over the divider so the pigeon won't feel the need to poke his head through . 

I will update tomorrow hopefully with clear poop pics . He is sleeping at the moment . ( looking so cute )


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Chantelle, well I am not sure if we will have time to properly go over the droppings (I, or a few others, may not be around when you post the photos), so it may be a good idea to see if you can get two prescriptions, one for a med called Metronidazole and one for a med called Baytril. Will need a weeks worth of each at the rate of 50mg/kg BID for the first and 20mg/kg QD for the second. May very well not be necessary, but with you mentioning a yellow tinge to the droppings, it might be prudent to have these on hand for this little one, just in case, as a yellow tinge can be indicative of a few infections (but could also be just privations), that's kinda' why we want to have a good look at the droppings after a bird has had a decent meal or two.

The hamster pen should be just fine, but I would take the precaution of cutting up a few cardboard box strips, about 10" wide, punching a few holes at each end and use a few twist ties to secure these to the bottom part of the pen. this way there will be no accidents to worry about this little one getting caught up in the holes.

Karyn


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## Drdoolittle (May 10, 2011)

Karyn , 

You are a wealth of information - I don't know what I would do without you . I have mucho to do , but we are going to the vet in 6hours. I have just been on the phone with the vet , to double check the pigeon wouldn't be taken from me . This has happened before, taken from me because I'm not licensed to keep it , and then KILLED ! So I've been very apprehensive about going to the vets. I've just been informed by the vet that this is not going to happen - . I'll let you know how I get on , and will post poops as soon as is possible . The pigeon is looking brighter and seems to be in better spirits. We had a cuddle last night before I went to bed , and he snuggled up with me and shoved his head in my neck . I think he's realized who the food lady is ! aka big mom without wings .


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Drdoolittle said:


> .......This has happened before, taken from me because I'm not licensed to keep it , and then KILLED ! So I've been very apprehensive about going to the vets. I've just been informed by the vet that this is not going to happen - . ......


Chantelle, I am sorry about your previous experiances with a vet, but just for information, you do NOT need a licence to keep pigeons in the UK, they are a domesticated bird. 
You may need permission from the local Council if you wanted to keep many pigeons in a loft but this has nothing to do with any wildlife rules or regs.
Whichever vet put to sleep a pigeon & told you this reason was lying.
More than probably they did not know how to treat it & this was the easiest option for them.


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## Drdoolittle (May 10, 2011)

Quazar - Thankyou for your supportive words regarding housing the pigeon ! It's good to know, but also made me feel a bit guilty . Had I known this last year , I could have stood my ground with the vet , informed him I know my rights, and walked out with the baby in tow :-( Shame ! I do think you're right, because when I called in to check how the baby was doing, the vet told me 'well he could not peck , which means he didn't stand a chance of survival , it requires nurturing which only his mother could give ' ( I've since learned from this forum , that's not necessarily true - Anyway , Hindsight is a great thing , but I must concentrate on this pigeon for now, and not beat myself about the pigeon who died . 

Either way , I am glad you informed me , it's better I am as well informed as possible for the trip , and then no one can force me into handing him over, or 'leaving him at the vets for better care' . 

A quick update on the pigeon front , I have still not taken pics of fresh poops - his poops are however looking much more normal then they were several days ago , when I wasn't feeding him properly . Albeit a little slippery , but they have some shape, and the colour is very similar to the one shown in the optimum pigeon poop photo on here . 

The vet was very sweet on the phone , when I explained my concerns to her, she advised me the pigeon wouldn't be taken from me , and that it sounds to her like I'm coping fine, but she would like to take a look at him just to make sure ... That sounds perfect to me ! It's the same practice, but it is a different vet , the last one was a man .

The pigeon is looking much much better than when I found him , and that's coming from me, who knows very little about baby pigeons - nor pigeons in general - but the change in him is very evident . I've started to refer to him as he* , as referring to him as it , started to get a bit sad. 

I will update later and let y'all know what the vet says .... I promise I will NOT be leaving him at the vets this time . A kind member on the forum added me to FB and they have helped talk me through some of the questions I had pending - So I feel more comfortable with playing pigeon mum for the time being... Actually , although worried ( I am an expert worrier ) , I am quite enjoying it , and me and the little guy seem to be learning how to operate together. 

Thanks everyone - I couldn't be doing this without the information I've gained on this forum . 

Chantelle


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Chantelle, theres no need to feel guilty. Unfortunately in a lot of professions, its the professionals who are the guilty ones, for misleading those who dont know, in order to cover up their own incompetance. 
Its so easy an option for them it comes second nature and its not like they are going to lose any income over it since they dont know what to do, and the bird may die anyway because of this, its their easy way out. Even for some that do know, they make it sound "in the best interests of the bird".
I will say that not all vets are the same, even vets within the same practices have different views.
I have a friend who is a vet (not avian), His attitude is - keep it simple, if you dont know whats going on, be honest with the customer and try and point them to someone more experianced who can help, they will trust & respect you more than if you make an excuse or fob them off with medical terminology they dont really understand.

If only all vets took this view.


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## Drdoolittle (May 10, 2011)

Quick update - .. Vet gave me nothing - when I asked, she told me there was no reason for prescribing them , and then didn't ... I'm assuming she did this in good faith , because I see no other reason why she wouldn't have enjoyed charging me more, and prescribing meds --- 

Pigeon is pecking his own seed and water ! And lots of it ! ... Do I still feed peas and corn ? He pecked wild bird seed today until is crop was full ! I could actually feel the seed in it ! I also sat and watched him peck lots of seed from his tray. This time it definitely WAS going in - ... He also took water from his water bowl ! He knows what to do , and he did it , I guess he was thirsty after his seed --- do I still give him water ? 

Advice appreciated - Many thanks .


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Drdoolittle said:


> Quick update - .. Vet gave me nothing - when I asked, she told me there was no reason for prescribing them , and then didn't ... I'm assuming she did this in good faith , because I see no other reason why she wouldn't have enjoyed charging me more, and prescribing meds ---
> 
> Pigeon is pecking his own seed and water ! And lots of it ! ... Do I still feed peas and corn ? He pecked wild bird seed today until is crop was full ! I could actually feel the seed in it ! I also sat and watched him peck lots of seed from his tray. This time it definitely WAS going in - ... He also took water from his water bowl ! He knows what to do , and he did it , I guess he was thirsty after his seed --- do I still give him water ?
> 
> Advice appreciated - Many thanks .


Sounds good, if he is eating a good amount, enough to see his crop fill, then you should not have to hand feed him. If you have a kitchen scale, best to monitor his weight to make sure he is heading in the right direction to be cautious. Also, once you see a good amount of droppings coming out the back end, well formed, this will also be a good sign.

Sometimes vets get it wrong, so best to still get up a few photos of his droppings over the next few days, so we can be sure what is going on.

Good job,

Karyn


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## Drdoolittle (May 10, 2011)

Hi Karyn, I will definitely try my hand at poop photography over the next couple of days . He sticks his bum out of his box to poop , so clean  

The droppings definitely are not well formed yet - but I am sure he is eating plenty ... This is a stupid question but , now I'm not hand feeding him, is it still possible to feed him too much ? Will he stop pecking when he is full, or will he like my dogs, if allowed .. eat until he's sick - Do I need to limit the amount of seed I give him ? And if so , what is a good amount . I think perhaps he has been forced into developing earlier , as he's showing many traits that I've learned on this forum , don't normally start until later - either that or he is under formed physically for his age . 

I don't have kitchen scales - but I will get some tomorrow or Saturday morning , and start logging his weights here for your opinion. 

Now I know he can drink himself ,do I have to still hand water , or will he see to that ? Or maybe I should still put a few drops down ? I want to make sure he's hydrated and full, but I also don't want to offend his progress . 

Thanks so much for the support , it's been amazing !


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Drdoolittle said:


> Do I need to limit the amount of seed I give him ? And if so , what is a good amount . I think perhaps he has been forced into developing earlier , as he's showing many traits that I've learned on this forum , don't normally start until later - either that or he is under formed physically for his age.


This is a good question. They have been known, once they get the hang of self-feeding, to over indulge and stuff themselves too much, so keep an eye out for this, and keep a small, deep dish (at least 1", best 1 1/2 - 2") of water next to his seeds dish. Here is a link to get him to self water:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=522565&postcount=11

It may take a few goes, but they usually pick this up quicker than eating, so he should be fine.

Karyn


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Drdoolittle said:


> Hi Karyn, I will definitely try my hand at poop photography over the next couple of days . He sticks his bum out of his box to poop , so clean  ......


They can be when they realise they are in their "nest", its their territory, Wait till he starts flying about, have plenty of clean up wipes handy


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## Drdoolittle (May 10, 2011)

Quazar said:


> They can be when they realise they are in their "nest", its their territory, Wait till he starts flying about, have plenty of clean up wipes handy


Thankyou karyn , 

I'll look forward to that - so will my rabbits and guinea pigs I think lol . He is already taking his own water, I saw him drinking tonight  So I guess he will keep himself hydrated . I'll check back tomorrow .. its 4am , and I am exhausted . 

Thanks once again . 

Chantellle


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## Drdoolittle (May 10, 2011)

*Update*

Pigeon seems to be getting stronger each day - I have for now , called him Ian, because 'pigeon' is seeming a little unfamiliar for our temporary family member ..... 

I have taken the best poop pics I can , as advised . The poop is looking very different to the bright green/yellow slime it was a week ago . It's now much more solid, and not green/yellow at all . I snapped a quick picture of Ian before I changed his box this morning. He is still roaming free in that room, with his bed door open ..... I didn't ignore previous advise to cordon him in a pen - But he banged and banged and banged against the sides until I worried he was going to do himself a injury - He seems to REALLY hate being cordoned in ! I don't know why , maybe something happened to him before I found him on that road , or maybe he just hates it - I hope he changes his mind on this , because I was kinder hoping someone with an aviary would adopt him , but maybe he will be released.... We'll see what turns out best for Ian . 

I did not take everybody's advice on deaf ears- I left a webcam in the rabbit room for 4 hours, and spied on Ian from down here .... It was really cute watching him walking around and pecking seeds from his dish and floor - But the rabbit stayed clear of him , and him of the rabbit - he wandered around , flapped his wings regularly , and in between , went back to his box - I hope he does not decide to show more interest in the rabbit as he grows older - but for now, they're completely unscathed by each other . I knew the rabbit would be unscathed by him - I know all my animals like the back of my hand , but Ian is new- and I was a bit frightened housing him with my crew- But so far, so good.... 

So here's the poop and a recent pic of Ian .... He's looking more sleek these days, and not so ... erm , fluffy , puffy , airy ! He is also making some nice purple/green colours on his neck - Really a beautiful little creature. 




























He is pecking lots of seed himself - And while it takes him a while , he does fill his food sack ( forget the name ) , and when I feel it , it feels seedy ! Different to when I was feeding him peas, but full all the same . He can drink, and does drink, but I was still putting a little water in his beak - As I was panicy about him going without enough water . I have since stopped this , as when I watched him on the webcam , I saw him drinking at his water bowl a couple of times. He obviously knows what he is doing . 

Thanks everybody - You've been gold, and Ian wouldn't be here if it hadn't been for y'all . 

Chantelle


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Chantelle, sounds good, one thing though, I would feel much better if you switched out the wood shavings for just a plain terry cloth towel bottom, newspaper with some paper towels on top (you can tack these in place with a few pieces of tape). I always worry, when they are at this age pecking at everything that they may inadvertently consume small bits of the shavings, if this happens, we will have trouble I would prefer not to have to deal with.

Karyn


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## Drdoolittle (May 10, 2011)

Karyn , 

Thanks for the advice - I will see to this and change his bedding - Any comment on his poop ? 

All warm wishes 

Chantelle


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Drdoolittle said:


> Karyn ,
> 
> Thanks for the advice - I will see to this and change his bedding - Any comment on his poop ?
> 
> ...


Sounds good. Droppings don't look too bad, but post some tomorrow again for another look-see.

Karyn


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I haven't had the opportunity to check the baby's progress in several days now. I'm delighted the baby is eating on his/her own. 
When you were feeding the corn and peas, you did exactly right. I noticed there was some discrepancy in the amount I recommended feeding, as the instructions are pre-written, certainly there is a range in the amount one would feed depending on the size of the bird but for the most part, I can feed 40 peas or more to a squeaker without the bird vomiting. If the bird does vomit, the cause is likely canker or yeast.
The parent pigeons feed their babies when the crop is empty. As the babies get older, the food fed is more solid and takes longer to move out of the crop. With the soft peas and corn, the food moves more quickly. As the babies are are growing, they needs more food to support growth. When they have had enough, they will let you know. To not give enough food can bring on canker or coccidia or other that the baby may be harboring.
Just last week, I received a squeaker from a rehabber, that is not accustomed to raising pigeons and just hadn't been feeding enough, although more than 20 peas a day. The poor bird was close to death and at 180 gms...she should have been closer to 280 gms, was lethargic, the keel bone razor sharp and the baby was close to death. This past week she has put on 100gms, is flying and eating on her own. I fed her 50 peas per feeding, 4 time a day.


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## PigeonQueen (Aug 13, 2006)

Hi there!

Whereabouts are you based in the UK? Maybe someone near you might know of a wildlife rescue place which is pigeon friendly and where the pigeon could be with others to help with a soft release later on.

Thanks for helping this young pigeon. Jayne


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## Drdoolittle (May 10, 2011)

Jayne - I am in Carlisle - I am willing to travel up to 150 miles in either direction if you or anyone else knows anywhere this baby would have a more suitable home . 

I spoke with my auntie last night , who advised me that most pigeon keepers , want a certain type of pigeon , and not akin to the pigeon I found ... I guess this is the best place to ask this question ... Is there a chance of pigeon finding a forever home with a pigeon keeper , as opposed to being released ? What is best for him ? 

Comments welcomed.


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## Drdoolittle (May 10, 2011)

when the time comes, what is the best thing to do for Ian the pigeon - In your opinion is it better to train him for release, or try and find someone who will have him ? Or does the second option even exist ? do people take wild pigeons to their pigeon collection... I know nothing about pigeons, I'm mustering on .

A woman at the vets ( the receptionist ) said that her father has an aviary and would probably take the pigeon . She said he just does it as a hobby and doesn't show' or race them ... I think that might make him less particular about the type of pigeon i'm handing over , but again , I know nothing about this -- Would Ian be okay in that situation, or because he's from the wild , is the best thing to release him ?

People are telling me , if I release him , he will probably hang around here - well I don't think that's such good news , much as though I'd love to have him forever, we share our house with 6 cats, and the street I live on , is literally a cat street , with every home owning 3 or more ! My back garden generally has a little cat party in it every day !

Advice appreciated .


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hello,

The nearest pigeon friendly rescue centre appears to be about 11 miles from you, that would be the best place for him if you want to release him.

Knoxwood Wildlife Rescue Trust
Updated Dec 18, 2010
Knoxwood Wildlife Rescue Trust
Thornby Moor
Wigton
Cumbria
CA7 OLA

Tel: 016973 43812

They treat and re release pigeons and doves. Should they be unfit for release they have two aviaries for them, one for the smaller doves and one for the pigeons .

I find releasing baby pigeons very difficult because their life expectancy is considerably shortened in the wild, so if someone offers a home I would take it! But that is just me, others might disagree.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Drdoolittle said:


> Can anyone help me please - The pigeon was growing, and not eating himself properly - I'm still having to hand feed, I tried to not do this, and he started going hungry and not eating at all - Now he has developed a deep noise instead of his normal squeek . Is that normal ? It doesn't sound normal ... Anything I can do ? Can I order something off the net ?


Their voice does change as they mature and this can be alarming if you have never heard this or seen this before. That being said, how is he acting, everything the same just his voice id diffrent?... when he is calm and laying/sitting resting how many breaths a minute is he taking, in/out or up/down count as one breath.

Karyn


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

When pigeons are about 8 weeks old their voices "break". It sounds as if this is what is happening.

Some are harder to wean than others, I have picked up great big juveniles because they were starving as their parents had stopped feeding and they hadn't caught on...I remember one had to be hand fed for 4 weeks after I found him.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Hi Chantelle,
as feefo says, the voice change is natural, hes now becoming an adult and no longer a squeaker, so to speak.
If he was pecking & eating seeds before, he probably is still eating although you may not see him. As they get older they sometimes get quite nervous about eating when being watched, especially lone birds, although will quite happily let you hand feed them.


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## Drdoolittle (May 10, 2011)

Thanks everyone ! I feel a bit silly now, I panicked when the squeeking stopped . He is acting completely normal apart from that ! My little boy is growing up!!!  As for the pecking - Should he crop be full when I check him ? I see him pecking but the seeds don't go inside his beak , he only manages to get them in the end of his beak and then they fly back out, he keeps as it but nothing goes inside. He uses his beak to shove the seeds on the tray and kind of flip them about and out the tray like he's doing something useful and seems quite pleased with himself, but whenever I feel his crop , it feels empty - and after I didn't feed him for 24 hours - it was very very empty ... Maybe I should keep feeding him so he does not starve but feed him less? He does however drink himself, although I squirt a little water in when I'm feeding him , but I see him drinking himself often - perhaps I should stop administrating water now I know he drinks . I guess he must be eating himself before I think about release/rehoming him . I wish I could keep him forever, but I think he would not be happy to live in my house forever , and there's a lot of cats around on the block . 

Chantelle


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## Drdoolittle (May 10, 2011)

I'm not sure why the post about his deep voice is moving down under every other post by others and my own , perhaps the mods can change that . 

Cheers


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## Drdoolittle (May 10, 2011)

Can anyone help me please - The pigeon was growing, and not eating himself properly - I'm still having to hand feed, I tried to not do this, and he started going hungry and not eating at all - Now he has developed a deep noise instead of his normal squeek . Is that normal ? It doesn't sound normal ... Anything I can do ? Can I order something off the net ?


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Drdolittle, 


Can you post some images of the Pigeon?

And, some good close ups images of their fresh poops?



Phil
Las Vegas


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Think there was a time problem with the board earlier lol.
The one I have at the moment is funny like that too.
I dont hand feed her now, she does and can eat by herself, although she rakes through the seeds and only eats the ones she likes.
sometimes she only plays with those ones too, but does eat when she wants.
The fact that the food is there for them all the time when they feel like it, means the crop may not feel or look full.
The young one ive got eats every morning first thing, sometimes spends 15-20 mins sorting seeds but not eating them all, then tries to waken me up, and goes back to the food, has a drink, then a nap. During the day she will visit the food dish several times, but only taking a few seeds.
When they know they dont have to hunt for food, they just eat when they feel they need to.


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## Drdoolittle (May 10, 2011)

Feefo said:


> Hello,
> 
> The nearest pigeon friendly rescue centre appears to be about 11 miles from you, that would be the best place for him if you want to release him.
> 
> ...


Just a quick update guys , we raised the pigeon to an adult and he was looking very proud and strong , I was a little sad to see him go , but he is now at an aviary in knoxwood , where he is making friends and will slowly be released with the option of returning to the aviary when he likes. 

So a happy ending all in all , and I'm just really here to let you all know and thank you profoundly for helping me save this animals life. I hope he is enjoying his new found freedom , I sure will miss him . Maybe in another life, sigh ..

And I will be back on the forums if I ever find another pigeon in distress. Thanks again . 

Chantelle .


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

HI there,

I love it when we hear how things have turned out. This is such a good outcome and a massive 'well done' to you for caring enough to want to help this lucky pigeon.
It's comforting to know they have the option to hang about near to the avairy setting after being released in case they're not so worldly wise!!

Good luck to him/her and nice of you to let us know how things went,

Take care

Janet


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

Oh, that is a happy ending -- glad I read this post. Hope the pigeon is very happy in his new environment.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Drdoolittle said:


> Just a quick update guys , we raised the pigeon to an adult and he was looking very proud and strong , I was a little sad to see him go , but he is now at an aviary in knoxwood , where he is making friends and will slowly be released with the option of returning to the aviary when he likes.
> 
> So a happy ending all in all , and I'm just really here to let you all know and thank you profoundly for helping me save this animals life. I hope he is enjoying his new found freedom , I sure will miss him . Maybe in another life, sigh ..
> 
> ...


Glad everything worked out well, and as Janet says, a big WELL DONE.
Now just to correct your post, - That IF should be WHEN, cos now that the word is out, others WILL find YOU lol


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Chantelle, as the others have mentioned, it's great to hear that things went so well with this little one, you really did a terrific job. Thanks for stopping by with this update and if you need us again, you know where to find us .

Karyn


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## Drdoolittle (May 10, 2011)

Thanks guys , I've been awfully depressed the last couple of days , thinking about him in that cage in the aviary . I'm sure he will be very terrified , although on the way there, he was looking out of my car window, in a very wise way , as if he was taking it all in , and knew we were on the next leg of his journey . I wish he could have lived with us forever , with all our cats it would have never worked out , I just hope he adapts and manages to live a happy life there. The center told us they would keep him in for a while , as he has never been outside since we found him , and then they'll see how he gets on with the others . EEK I feel like driving there and getting him back !!!! I'll be strong, because I know this is the best , not for me , but for him . 

I may go visit next week , just to put my mind at rest he's integrated in , I know I sound a bit crazy , but it was surprising how gut wrenching it was to hand him over.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Chantelle, your feelings are perfectly understandable and natural, but you are right, this is the next step in his journey, and only possible because of what you did for him. I am sure he is happy to be mixing and foraging with his own kind, I am sure he is getting on just fine .

Karyn


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