# Help! sick racing pigeon in Great Yarmouth



## vonmarie (Sep 28, 2010)

Hi, any advice you can give me would be wonderful as the general vibe I’m getting from local vets and pet shops is “it’s only a pigeon”.

I had a racing pigeon literally crash land in my garden Saturday (25th Sept) morning. I was luckily stood at the window when it fell out of the sky and managed to get to it before next doors cat!

I phoned the RSPB who gave me the number for the RSPCA who gave me details for the pigeon fanciers association. They were closed for the weekend. Long story short I managed to trace the owner in Swansea Monday morning. The pigeon was released in Lille in France about 3 weeks ago. I told him that he’d been hanging around my garden for at least 2 weeks and that he couldn’t fly. His attitude was awful. He asked me to feed him for another day and then let him go to take his chances! That it wasn’t worth him coming all the way from Wales. The poor thing can’t even fly!

As far as I’m concerned the owner can go swing now and I’m resigned to getting him fit and re-homing or keeping him. 

I’m a bit concerned as to what is wrong with him though. He’s much better today than Saturday. At first he couldn’t even stand. I put him in a box with sugar water, wild bird food and rice like the RSPCA told me to. He didn’t eat or drink the first day, every time I looked at him he was standing forward on his head with him bum in the air. I honestly thought I was going to wake up to find him dead the next morning.

On Sunday he was still alive, he ate a whole dish of food and seemed much perkier. He could stand without falling forward but still ended up falling on his head and spinning on his side each time he tried to walk, but he could right himself eventually.

Yesterday he seemed better again. Still eating a lot. He could remain standing longer before he fell. I went to the pet shop and bought some grit but I’m worried it’s too fine?

Today, without jinxing it, he seems to have come on leaps and bounds. I had him out of his box briefly and he can take about 10 steps before he falls. He stretches his wings out but no attempts to fly at all. He’s also preening himself which must be a good sign?

The vet I spoke to seems to think it is a concussion. Does that sound right? I’ve checked in his mouth and its lovely and pink. He has no problem being handled. He seems quite puffed up though and I can feel that he is really bony but I don’t know if this is normal as I’ve never had a bird. His droppings seem a little watery but then I’m no expert on bird poo! (but I’ve got a feeling I soon will be as he certainly does enough!!!) It doesn’t look like any of the pictures I’ve seen on websites against common illnesses though.

If you can give me any advice on what you think this could be or put me in touch with anyone who might know I would be extremely grateful. A point in the right direction to any websites would be appreciated too as all the ones I’ve found assume you already know what you’re talking about!


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Hi

Concussion is possible if he collided with something, but sounds more like he was just exhausted and maybe suffering with an illness.

The sugar water is good, as is bird seed. Your description of what's going on is very useful. 

Droppings in a healthy bird are something like this:










Are they like a pool of water with a little solid, or just kinda sloppy and green (or other)? If you can post a pic, that would be great.

Keeping him secure and warm, fed and watered is best for now.

There is a place I can recommend from personal knowledge, who take pigeons:

Wing and a Prayer Wild Bird and Owl Haven/Rescue
30, Cromer Road
Stratton Strawless
Norwich
Norfolk
NR10 5LU

Telephone: 0776 6685102

There is another on this resource list here:

Foxy Lodge
Newport Road
Hemsby
Great Yarmouth
Norfolk
NR29 4NN

Tel Home: 01493 384237 
Mob 1 : 07964386751
Mob 2 : 07964366954

Wildlife rescue and rehabilitation in the Hemsby area.

which I don't know anything about.

Norwich area has some vets we know will examine/prescribe for pigeons, on the 'vets' link from the 'this resource list' link above. All Creatures vet Louise is experienced with birds, though I believe she is on vacation and vet Sally is covering. Both Rob and Stefan at the different Companion Care branches will deal with pigeons.

I am coming to Norfolk myself on Thursday, but if you are able to contact any of the above before then, that'll be good. Sooner the pigeon gets looked at the better, in case it is more than just exhaustion.

Can you check his weight on a gram scale? 

John


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## vonmarie (Sep 28, 2010)

*Thank you for your reply*

Thank you so much for your prompt reply! 

Just weighed him at 388 grams, and his droppings look like this:









(This is a photo I never in my wildest dreams thought I'd take!!!! lol)

I'm working tomorrow but am off on Thursday so can take him to one of the vets listed. I didn't want to take him today as A. I couldn't find anyone who seemed willing, although the vet in Gorleston did give some good advice and B. As he seemed settled and was eating I didn't want to stress him out. Hope I haven't done wrong by him?!!

He is very perky this evening, and not as fluffed up as he was. His crop (think that's what its called) seems full. Not wobbling when he's sat down now.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi vonmarie,


It would likely benefit him for his drinking Water to contain Apple Cider Vinegar.

Say, three Tablespoons of the ACV to a Gallon of Water.


His falling over when trying to walk could have been from advanced dehydration or food poisoning or having eaten some food which had mildew or mold.


So, just let him have an easy couple weeks of rest and relaxation, and, stay on things as you have!


Maybe post fresh poop images each day.


Good going!

If you do see a Vet, bring fresh poops softy wrapped in some plastic film-wrap.

Also ask the Vet if he thinks fungal toxins from tainted food could have been at play.



Phil
Las Vegas


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## vonmarie (Sep 28, 2010)

*cheers*

Cheers Phil, nice to finally find people who don't think I'm being daft looking after a "flying rat" (actually quoted by one pet shop owner!).

Hopefully I can get him through this and then I'll be on here for advice on what to do next having never kept birds. I know nothing about aviaries, food etc!


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

You'd see plenty of requests for 'poop pics' on here - we love our poops  The appearance sometimes helps towards identifying illness, in conjunction with other symptoms, but they are only a guide. A vet who has the diagnostic facilities can check samples to identify problems or, more often here, get them checked by a lab. 

They do have some white urates and aren't as wet as I'd anticipated. If he has been hanging out for a couple of weeks, not able to get much to eat, and is now getting something approaching 'real' food, then they aren't unexpected in formation.

I would suspect that his falling forward could be due to weakness from lack of nourishment rather than infection, assuming he was healthy when his owner took him off to Lille.

If you just keep him awhile to get him fit, may be able to help with a sufficient amount of 'real' pigeon food (as sold, it comes in at least 20kg sacks - bit much for a temporary bird) and odds n ends. Then if you decide to give him a home we can point you to the place for food.

Releasing him when he's OK is not much of an option, as he may or may not make it home and it doesn't sound like a good home to me

John


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## vonmarie (Sep 28, 2010)

Thank you for that. Certainly won't be sending him "home" when he's better. I assume he was healthy as he's a 2010 hatchling (if I'm reading the ring right) and his owner said he'd already won 2 races!

I'm sourcing a big cage to keep him in the house whilst he gets better then will look at building him an aviary, which is where I'll need more advice!

I'll have a good look for pigeon food on the net, got him some corn mix to go with wild bird food now and also some sunflower hearts which was recommended by the pet shop? Also got caged bird vitamin drops for his water.

Thank you again for your help x


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Vonmarie,

You have some sound advice already from John and Phil, so nothing I can add there, but just wanted to say well done, you've done a sterling job so far.
If he was going to crash land somewhere, he couldn't have picked a better place. Some good luck at last for this pigeon. 

I had a racing pigeon bought to me a while ago that turned out to have been lost for over four weeks. It was the same age and literally starving as he had no idea how to forage for food himself.
He too would fall forwards and couldn't stand for long, I'm sure a lot of your bird's problems are from dehydration and lack of good food so I'm sure with time he'll pick back up again.

Looking forward to hearing what the vet says and hearing of his progress.

Good luck,

Janet


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## vonmarie (Sep 28, 2010)

*He flew!*

Whilst I was cleaning him out this morning he managed to fly out of his box! OK, maybe it was more of a wing assisted jump but it's a start!


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Well...watch out!!


They can be a Handfull once feeling better.


Lol...


What have you got for food for him?


Can you get some good Pigeon Seed-Mix in your area?


Do the 'ACV-Water' if you can...



Phil
Lv


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Seems like he is getting his strength back under your care 

We have a supplier of pigeon mixes and supplements not too far away. We usually get 20 or 25 kg sacks, but they are able to provide smaller quantities of most foods too

Ken's Corn Stores
Fir Covert Road, 
Taverham,
Norwich
NR8 6HT

John


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## vonmarie (Sep 28, 2010)

*Food*

Excellent, I'm on my way! If I have to get a huge bag I'm sure the other birds in my garden won't turn their beaks up!

At the moment Phil he's on wild bird food, corn mix, sunflower hearts and rice but doesn't seem too interested in the rice. I'll get some ACV, been putting sugar in his water and vitamin drops from the pet shop. Someone also suggested some greens, lettuce, cabbage or spinach but not sure?

I've got a big cage for him now too, he seems happier that he can watch what's going on. x


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

You could probably ask them to measure out say 3 or 5 kg of mix. The high protein economy is quite good as a regular mix, and their conditioner is good for putting weight on as an extra in small quantities. They also have pigeon grit. Lettuce is good, but he may not know it as food - romaine heart or little gem probably best (hope you like lettuce too  ). If not already done, pigeons like a plain old brick to stand on (ours certainly do)

John


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## vonmarie (Sep 28, 2010)

He's been perched on an upside down chinese tub because that was all I could find! I'll sort him out a brick though.

What is a healthy weight for a pigeon? I'll build him an aviary over the next week or so but don't want him outside until I know he's up to scratch. I'm going to take him to someone tomorrow to be looked at anyway. x


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

If he has a perch he likes, that's plenty good enough 

Last racer I weighed was 460, but we have one who is smaller in frame and closer to 400. That's males, who could come even heavier I believe, but a hen might weigh less. His current weight for a flown-out bird who has probably not eaten well till now, for a while, doesn't sound unexpected.

John


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi vonmarie,



Glad to hear things go well.


Images of the Bird himself?


If he will eat his fresh Greens, they are very good for them.


Soft kinds of Greens are easiet for them to peck off bites of, or, one can use Scissors or a mechanical push-chopper, and cut some up real fine.


Cilantro, Kale, Spinach, Chards, endives even...Parseleys...if in a little Rubber Band bunch, or rubber banded to something stable, they can usually peck off little Bites just fine.

Might take some guidance or example if he had never had these before.



Phil
Lv


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## vonmarie (Sep 28, 2010)

Hope this photo has posted ok, not used to going on forums. Not the best photo because it was taken with a phone.

He's got a lot more of his balance back. Been to Kens corn store and I'm feeding him a conditioning food they recommended, also a tonic for in his water. He seems impressed with both. x


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

vonmarie said:


> Been to Kens corn store and I'm feeding him a conditioning food they recommended, also a tonic for in his water. *He seems impressed with both*. x


I like that 

Fine aerodynamic head shape. I tell you, good food and comfort, he'll think he has found his 4 star pigeon hotel!

John


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## vonmarie (Sep 28, 2010)

*Poop issues*

Hi, slightly concerned as his poop seems to have gotten quite runny. I couldn't get hold of wing and a prayer yesterday but I'm going to take him to one of the vets mentioned next week when he's a bit more settled. Could it just be a change of food and the tonic I'm giving him? Every other one seems fine but then a little runny puddle with a slight bit of green solid appears.

Other than runny poop he seems fine and has started giving me some attitude when I handle him, soon settles once he's in hand though. Really has got a lot of strength back and only has the odd fall, but can get himself straight up. Just weighed him at 409g.

I'll post some of the pictures of his poop you all love so much later  No point doing it now as he decided to take a bath in his water dish and turned the bottom of his cage into a swampy mess! x


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## vonmarie (Sep 28, 2010)

That was something else I was going to ask. He seems to be grooming himself a lot now and trying to splash in his water. Is it worth running 1/2 inch of warmish water in the bath and letting him go in there? obviously watching him in case he does one of his tumbling acts.

Or would he not appreciate this?


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi vonmarie,


If he is indicating an interest to Bathe, find 
some wide Pan or Cassarole Dish or something about two inches deep and a foot wide or so...fill with cool Water, and set it on a Towel where splashes will not harm anything...usually one elects the floor.

Splash your fingers in it to invite him.


'Preening' is a good sign he is feeling better.


Supervise his Bath, in a way where he does not feel like you are crowding or intending to displace him.

He might Bathe with you being right there, or he might feel shy and prefer you were ten feet away, you will have to find out by experiment.



Images of poops, soon as you can.


Plain white Paper Towels are best for Cage Bottoms...change each morning.


Best wishes!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## vonmarie (Sep 28, 2010)

*Not looking good*

I've put paper towel down now though I won't get away with just changing it in the morning! He is a poop machine!

And I'll try letting him bathe in the next few days.

I don't like the look of this though








He was pooping fine this morning but come this afternoon, first it went quite runny, still with white in, now every so often he does these which look like some images I've seen against some nasty illnesses!

The thing is he is 100% better, eating, drinking, hasn't fallen over once today he's not even wobbly, he manage to fly up onto his cage. He's also put on quite a bit of weight so I'm at a loss? I don't want to take him somewhere there are other birds to have him looked at in case it is something nasty.

I did hear him sneeze twice earlier though but there is nothing that looks like snot. 

Any ideas? x


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## vonmarie (Sep 28, 2010)

Then every other poop looks like this?









Sorry the pictures are so bad, my camera isn't playing at the moment so having to use phone and its not brilliant light but don't want to spook him with a flash!

x


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Has his drinking Water been the famous "ACV-Water" so far?


If not, it would be good to do.Say, Three Tablespoons of Apple Cider Vinegar to a Gallon of Water. If an Imperial Gallon, or four Litres, close-enough.

One Tablespoon is about 14.7867648 milliliters.


Probably he has some mild Bacterial issues in his system, intermittently effecting his Kidneys, or to which his Kidneys are responding, anyway, or the latter stages of usual Water-reclaim are responding by not reclaiming consistently, and or he is occasionally trying to flush his system of something.

So likely he will be drinking a little more than usual because of this.


So, lets just keep an Eye on the poops/urates, and on his general demeanor, appetite, apperance/posture/poise.

Good food, ACV-Water, he can probably shake whatever it is on his own.

If it seems like he is not, then we can brood about what Meds to consider.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

A good starting ACV / water mix is 5ml (1 teaspoon) per litre, which can increase to 10 ml if they don't turn their beaks up at it. It can help the gut acidity and offer some protection against bacteria such as salmonella, but isn't necessary on a daily basis. 

Keep check and see if the poops being OK earlier in the day, then becoming wet later, forms a pattern. That could indicate a problem if it is happening consistently, else it may just be his system is re-adjusting to a regular diet and 'normality'.

John


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

He's a Handsome fellow!

A little sheepish for now, maybe...but, he will get over it and be out-going and confident once used to the new conditions.


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## vonmarie (Sep 28, 2010)

*Evening*

Poop looking much better again today. Not as wet but plenty of it!








Got some ACV, how often should I give this to him? Should I do ACV every other day or so and tonic in between?

Not wobbly at all, very content. Flew up onto his cage again  Much happier with me handling him, not shying away or doing the silly little nervous growl when I go to get him.

Eating enormous amounts so will look at monitoring how much exactly now he's getting his health back, don't want a fat turkey! Got some of the high protein food from Kens corn store too as I was worried that what I was giving him was a bit rich (or am I attaching human ailments to him?) so was going to mix it half and half with the conditioning stuff. Also got some tick and lice spray but not going to use that on him yet as I don't think he's got and don't want to spook him. Is it worth getting a wormer?

Now he's standing more I've noticed a slight swelling on his right "knee" joint, here's a photo but don't know how well it shows up. Sorry if I'm just being a hypochondriac new "mum"!








Other than that he's doing great! x


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi vonmarie,


Well good! Lots of nice poops!


Poops were looking kind of mealy-grainy before ( possibly not being masticated thoroughly by his Guizzard )...glad to see that is passing.


Just regular Pigeon type Seed Mix should be fine, with some of the conditioning or other Mixes added to it.


A good Pigeon Grit would be nice for him, if you can get some. This would be a mix of crushed Oyster Shell, Granite, Charcoal, and whatever else they have in it.


You can lightly 'glisten' his Seeds with fresh bottle Olive Oil also, and this would be very good for his nutrition and aids in assimilating nutrients/vitamins from his foods.

ACV-Water can be his drinking Water for a Week, then, as an occasional, one or two days-a-week thing.


No need to bother spraying anything for Ticks or other. 

If you see any actual 'bugs', just let us know, and of course, describe them carefully.


Worming can wait...


Bump on his Hock...can you post some good close ups of it?


In his situation, making up for some prior mild privation and stress episodes, he can easily make 45 full size poops ni 24 hours...this will diminish somewhat as he continues to regain his health and vitality and is done with playing catch-up.


Best wishes!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## vonmarie (Sep 28, 2010)

Hi Phil,

Thanks for that. I've already put him a bowl of grit down. It's pigeon grit recommended by the shop I get his seed from. I've already seen him eat some of it.

He's been drinking the ACV water already and has taken to this other food really well.

I'll get some close ups of his leg tomorrow. It's dark now and I don't want to use a flash. I have noticed that on his left leg he has "fluff" (not the technical term I'm sure! lol) most of the way down but on the right where the bump is its bald from almost the top. Doesn't look sore or anything and he seems to use it ok, does appear to favour the other one very slightly though. I've noticed when he's standing near his food dish he'll stand with his right leg in it, almost like he's trying to take the weight off. His toes grip fine though and he walks ok as far as my untrained eye can tell.

He is certainly getting close to the 45 poop a day mark! changing his about 5 times a day, but at least now I'll know what to look for as an indication he really is on the mend. 

Taking him to a vet for a once over wed or thurs and hopefully she can do one of those swabs I've been reading about to put my mind at rest. She's an avian vet who was recommended by Cynthia, (she is the God send who's website directed me to this forum!) apparently she takes all her pigeons there too.

Von x


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Sounds good...


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## vonmarie (Sep 28, 2010)

*Thank you*

As a little thank you to all of you who have helped us so much on this forum we have made a small donation to our local wild bird rescue centre (small at the moment because we have spent more money on Mr pigeon this week than we have on ourselves in the last month! lol No regrets though!)

www.wingandaprayerhaven.org.uk

I honestly don't know what we would have done without having this forum to turn to. I have read through other threads and you are all truly amazing people. It's heart warming to know that there are people out there willing to give their time and knowledge to help support people like us. 

Again, thank you all x


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## vonmarie (Sep 28, 2010)

*bump*

Here are a couple of photos of the bump on his right leg.















It doesn't look too bad on the photos but it's definitely different to his left. He is using it fine though.

His poop looks almost the same today but slightly less watery.

x


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> As a little thank you to all of you who have helped us so much on this forum we have made a small donation to our local wild bird rescue centre


That was very kind of you! 

Is the swelling on the joint soft or hard? Cold or hot?

Wing and a Prayer are on Facebook and I often post photos to get Diane's (Dee's) advice, perhaps you could post one of Mr Pigeon to get her opinion.


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## vonmarie (Sep 28, 2010)

Thanks for that, but we're quite happy to keep him rather than release. Like some on here have said, his owner wasn't interested when he was sick so chances are if he goes back his futures bleak! I've found a chap near us who keeps pigeons and he's kindly offered to show us his lofts and aviaries so we know what to build him.

Need some advice on whether they like to be kept alone or with others, male or female? apparently he's a he as his owner referred to him as "him and his sister"

x


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> Thanks for that, but we're quite happy to keep him rather than release. Like some on here have said, his owner wasn't interested when he was sick so chances are if he goes back his futures bleak! I've found a chap near us who keeps pigeons and he's kindly offered to show us his lofts and aviaries so we know what to build him.
> 
> Need some advice on whether they like to be kept alone or with others, male or female? apparently he's a he as his owner referred to him as "him and his sister"


Ooops!!!! Sorry, that was posted on the wrong thread, it was meant for the woodie rescuer in London!

IMO he would certainly benefit from the company of a hen, you change the eggs for plastic ones as soon as they are laid.


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## vonmarie (Sep 28, 2010)

*Bugs!!!!!*

EEEEEWWWWWWW!

Just had him out and found a bug crawling around his back! What is it?

Probably a good job I got some stuff yesterday. It'a "Johnsons pigeon insect spray extra", says it kills mites, lice etc, contains permethrin for lasting protection, but that means nothing to me. Will he be ok if I treat him? He certainly seems much much much healthier! None of his original symptoms, his poop isn't watery at all today and he's only done about 30 or so compared to what seemed double that yesterday.

Here's nasty creepy crawly, he measures 3mm long


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## vonmarie (Sep 28, 2010)

Feefo, lol, I did think it a bit strange as we're about 145 miles from Surrey! Is that the one who knocked it with her car and went back for it? I've been reading some other posts trying to learn a little x


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> Is that the one who knocked it with her car and went back for it?


Yes, that's the one. I have never posted on the wrong thread before, I must be losing it.

What you have is a feather louse, they are fairly harmless but my vet says that pigeons get them when they are poorly. The Johnson's spray will get rid of them.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Hi Vonmarie, the photo is of a common pigeon louse. They can not live long if they fall from a bird. Just give the bird a spray all over, make sure to good spray under each wing, their favorite hiding place. Also, give his head a cover with a light rag to keep spray away from the face area and so he does not inhale any spray.

Karyn


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

These are harmless and only eat detritis and dander and feather materials, far as I recall anyway.


You can just lightly mist some of the spray onto the undersides of his spread-out Wigs, and lightly onto his front chest and back and fanned-out Tail areas.

As Karyn mentions, please protect his Face and Eyes from any of the mist or spray getting on to his Face.


Repeat again in a couple days, then in about ten days...and that ought to do it.


Leg Hock 'bump', I don't know.


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