# Eye cere question.



## Hambone (Feb 19, 2008)

I have an old pied male homer mated to a feral . Homer has prominent fleshy white eye ceres and a large nose wattle , while the charcoal hen has none of that . They have produced quite a few offspring over the last year and NONE of the YB's have that eye cere trait which I kind of like ..... all are like their mother feathered right up to the eyeball . I would think that some , or at least one would show traits of the father with the fleshy cere . 

Isnt that kind of strange ? Why wouldn't that trait have come out by now ?

hambone


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Funny you asked. I have observed with my cross birds that it can happen. Nest mates, for example, look different. One resembles the father more than the mother and vice-versa.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

Hambone said:


> I have an old pied male homer mated to a feral . Homer has prominent fleshy white eye ceres and a large nose wattle , while the charcoal hen has none of that . They have produced quite a few offspring over the last year and NONE of the YB's have that eye cere trait which I kind of like ..... all are like their mother feathered right up to the eyeball . I would think that some , or at least one would show traits of the father with the fleshy cere .
> 
> Isnt that kind of strange ? Why wouldn't that trait have come out by now ?
> 
> hambone


*Hi HAMBONE, Well first how old is the male bird? You see the Wattle grows as the cock gets older. There are breeds that have large wattles and eye ceres, so you may have what you think is a homer but in fact is one of the wattle breeds, Dragoons, English Carriers, just to name a few,and in the developement of the racing homer these were two of the breeds used,so we see old races that carry this trait. With the young it may take years before you see the large wattles.Feral males for the most part do not live much over 4 years in the wild,and therefor we rarely see big wattles in feral birds, how ever there are people that have raised feral males as pets and they may have one that also show large wattles. I will have to look thru my genetic books to see if there has been any genetic work done along those lines. * GEORGE


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Sometimes cross breeding can bring out some of the traits that have been long forgotten. Homers started out looking like your feral hen. So it's very likely none or few of the offspring would look very 'homer-ish'.
I've had some oops babies happen between two very different breeds (which really in your case, a homer and a feral aren't THAT much different...but still). Most of the babies didn't look like one parent or the other, but more like ferals you'd see in town. I'm not really sure why or how it happens. Seems like all the plain ole rock dove genes would be gone by the time you get something like a Lahore or a Fantail or other crazy looking show birds. Or maybe when mated to something that isn't so fancy and might still have rock dove similar traits...would dominate? 

I don't know, just thinking out loud here. My genetic knowledge doesn't stretch any farther than colors


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## Hambone (Feb 19, 2008)

Hi all ,

thanks for the input ... Only been in pigeons for a little over a year now so I'm pretty ignorant as far as genetic study , but I'm one of those people that like to know the why's and wherefore's of how things work .  

George... Homer is 8 years old and has a banding # so I know he's from genuine homing pij stock . Ruby the hen is a charcoal check feral . They were mated already when I got the pair from a rehaber here in Kingman . Now I've gotten different kinds of grey / charcol almost black color combos out of them , but none show Homers traits such as the flatter head , thick neck , powerfull body shape and the eye cere . He's more friendly and he's more intellegent too . Most all tend to be like her body wise . If I could just get one that was like dad I would treat him/her special and try to do some breeding to keep that trait . Such as trying to buy another bird that has those traits or inbreeding . Lots to learn . But curious as to why not even one is built like Homer so far ? I would think somewhere it should start to show up  

After looking at hundreds of homing pigeon pics online I have in my mind what the classic homer should look like and I guess thats what I would like to wind up with ... for a couple of birds at least . Maybe its not possible with Ruby's bloodline in the mix . No racing involved , just a learning experiment . 

thanks , hambone


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

If he's 8 years old, that's probably why his ceres are so developed. Some homers end up with bigger ceres, some don't. There's all kinds of shapes and sizes of homing pigeons. If you where to take one of his daughters and mate it back to him, you'd increase the chance of having a more homer-like shape.


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## Hambone (Feb 19, 2008)

Hi Mary ,
Thanks and I'm sure you are correct . The oldest offspring would be just short of a year old now . I know the wrinkley beak wattle developes over time , but I though the eye cere perhaps might show up in a few months . Not a trace . 

The second egg hatched over night or this AM .... two more chances to see if I have some different looking birds 

I've been looking at pics trying to figure out what basic stock Homer is from ... not sure . All of this is very interesting to a newby like me. 

hambone


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