# Rough Weekend



## Pidgey

Got two over the weekend--a fully-feathered squeaker (no downy hairs) with a hanging wing and very little by way of perceivable injury. He's fully fleshed so no long deprivation. I can't find anything broken so I'm hoping that he's gotten bruised and the motor control will come back. I taped the wing anyhow and put him on Baytril in case this is the beginnings of Paratyphoid seeing as how I found Brownie this time last year with almost the same hanging wing but a far more advanced Paratyphoid boil on the elbow complete with an enlarged elbow.

He was found by the owner of a fairly new Jaguar (immaculate condition) with a British accent (He's from about 20 miles of the cliffs of Dover) who found him near his car in a somewhat empty parking lot. He gave him some water (it was about a 100 degrees F) and called his friends who got in contact with me (Way to go, UK!).

The second is a pigeon that I originally saw just sitting and looking somewhat normal in the water bowl outside. I began to worry when he stayed that way for an hour. It certainly was hot and I've seen them do it before but alarm bells were going off especially when I went outside and got within six feet and he didn't move. He was acting wary but still reluctant to get out of the tub. 

When Lin came near, he finally stood up and his right leg was angled a bit odd outwardly. He was standing on it but he certainly had most of his weight on the other leg. I just knew he had a wound on his underside. He finally flew straight up into the tree (about 20 feet high) and stayed there the rest of yesterday afternoon. He'd landed in a place where he could nestle down in the boughs without standing on his legs. 

He flew just fine so I knew I couldn't catch him but I could also tell he was in bad-enough shape that he wasn't going anywhere when the sun set. I waited until about 10 o'clock and doused the security light to make it dark. Then, I snuck up the tree and almost got him--he did a controlled flutter to the ground and then I retrieved him in the darkness since he wasn't going anywhere (it was too black).

It looks like he clipped or got clipped by a sharp something that almost filleted his leg off--you can open the entire leg outward and peer down into the ribcage on one side and the inside of the femur on the other (and I do mean you can see the inside of the bone). Normally, the thigh bone is encased in the skin of the main trunk and the true knee operates almost within the skin of the body at that point so I've got a "U" shaped (more of a parabola, actually) slice that totals out to about 2 to 3 inches of straightline slice.

Given that it was infected and smelled slightly rotten, the first thing to do was get the bird on antibiotics and get some antibiotic ointment packed around the wound itself. The local feathers are heavily matted already so the wound has already formed a means of keeping stuff out while the leg is compressed and held closed. 

I put the bird on Baytril, Keflex and Metronidazole last night in the hopes of winning the battlefront in the actual wound against massive necrosis, never mind the septicemia, toxemia and bacteremia from the bugs that have already established a beachhead and dug in. The bird made it through the night and is stable but I've got a rough job ahead of me of clearing the edges so that I can close it. I suppose the worst of it is that you can see deep enough into the bird to see that it's only an 1/8" of an inch from the nearest air sacs. That is, you can watch the bird's breathing quite easily.

By staying in the water like he did, he infected the wound with Trichomonads (that's why the Metronidazole, by the way) and Heaven-only-knows-what-else. That's going to be the biggest part of this fight seeing as how the wound is so very deep and so close to the thoracic cavity. The skin is heavily yellowed in that area and I really don't like the look of it. Here's hopin'!

Pidgey


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## Pigeonpal2002

Hi Pidgey, 

Sure does sound like you've had a rough weekend! Even climbing trees under the cover of darkness!!! Good luck with these two pigeons, if anyone can get them on the right track, it's you!

Sounds like the older but worse injured one might have hit a wire at full speed or something along these lines.

Good luck with both!


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## Reti

You've got some tough cases there Pidgey.
The second bird sounds to be in bad shape.
There are in good hands now, I am so glad they found you.
Keep us updated, please and best of luck with both of them.

Reti


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## SueC

Ditto Reti's comments.

Boy, I'm glad they are in your hands.

Suzanna


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## Birdmom4ever

Well, you sure have your hands full, but the pigeons couldn't be in better hands than yours. Best of luck with both of them.


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## Skyeking

Hi Pidgey,

DITTO on all the above comments. 

I will pray the two, especially the second one will thrive. 

Thanks for letting us know.


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## pigeonmama

Pidgey,
These birds couldn't have landed in better hands.
Daryl


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## arnieismybaby

You have two lucky pigeons - let's hope that they realise that they've landed in the hands of a good hearted person.

Michelle.


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## Pidgey

Why, thanks, all!

Cleaned that mess over lunch (sandwich in one hand, bird in the other... ) and it's a strange wound (wouldn't you know it?). Besides the major slice, there was a hole blasted through the back side of the triangle described by the hip, femur and muscles toward the tail. There were feathers on the outside going completely through the leg and they were attached to a large patch of skin and scab on the inside of the leg facing (and irritating) the slice wound. For the life of me I can't figure out how that happened.

Except for the deepest part, most of the tissues laid open have begun to epithelialize (cover over with a skin- or scar-like membrane) so this has been there for a few days at least. I suspect that the bird appeared more or less alright until yesterday and then it just got to be too much. Judging by the smell, it wouldn't have taken a rocket scientist to figure out why. 

For a certainty, this is going to be similar to Pierpont in that it can't be closed and healed quickly. If the epithelialization (a one-word tongue-twister!) continues somewhat unimpeded now because I got that crap unstuck, it might seal over a lot more quickly than one would think, though. The leg is going to have a tendency to want to slide out to the right (kinda' like a splay-leg) but that's not going to be a mortality issue to the bird although she might want to take a defensive flying course to get her insurance rates back down.

Pidgey


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## Maggie-NC

My hero! Climbing 20 feet up a tree in the dark? Are you out of your mind?  

I hope you can get us some pictures. The wound sounds really bad but didn't he pick the perfect place to go to! Does he seem to be in any pain? That's the part that always worries me with an injury like that. Makes me wonder if the water helped sooth the wound.

Well, Pidgey, at least you can't say it was a dull day. You done good.


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## maryjane

If only everyone had such dedication! I'm certainly hoping for the very best for them both.


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## jazaroo

Hi Pidgey,

Sounds like a couple of tough cases, especially the second one. Well, I second what the rest have said, they could not have been directed to better hands to give them a chance to get well again and it sounds like you are doing all you can.

Please keep us updated and any chance of pics, especially of the second one to visualize better what going on with him?

Thanks, and good luck with these guys,

Ron


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## mr squeaks

If Pierpont made it with all she went through, hopefully, the second pij will too!

With your background in healing "bad" intensive wounds, this pij has a chance few others would! 

Best for the other pij too! 

Awaiting updates...BEST warm healing thoughts to all! If anyone can help/save these pijies....


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## Pidgey

Nasty wound. For those of you who are brave of heart:

http://community.webshots.com/album/553159015dObcmS

The picture doesn't really do the wound justice but it's bad enough. She's (I'm pretty sure it's a "she") standing this evening rather than laying down all the time. I'm not sure if it feels better (she's not standing on that leg but she uses it for balance) or if it's just that she feels better. Maybe both, now that the spear isn't going through the leg. Man, that was weird!

Anyhow, she's eating and drinking on her own and the little squeaker with the limp wing finally started "talking" this evening. I got squeaked at so the shock is wearing off.

Pidgey


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## mr squeaks

OUCH! Poor girl! 

Wonder if Brad's comment about a wire is accurate!?

Wishing all the best in healings! 

I do hope YOU will be able to get SOME rest!


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## Feather

I saw two Peregrines in my air space this morning. They are not suppose to be here until Oct.

That looks like a pretty bad tare. Boy...did the angels set him down in the right yard. We're pulling for both of your precious finds.

Oh, by the way, I see you met my butler. He wanted to go to "In n Out", so I lent him my old Jag. Poor fellow has such a bad since of direction. I just never dreamed that he would end up all the way in Oklahoma.

Feather


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## TAWhatley

Indeed, that's a bad one .. it's in the best of care, and I suspect all will be well. We're lookin' for updates Pidgey.

Terry


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## Skyeking

I hope this bird does well thru the duration and healing progresses quickly, and that you will receive a good scolding or wing slap soon as you got from Pierpont!


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## Pidgey

Trees Gray said:


> I hope this bird does well thru the duration and healing progresses quickly, and that you will receive a good scolding or wing slap soon as you got from Pierpont!


Well, you know... I hate to say it but this bird is just too... "nice" for that. I haven't even gotten a grumble, yet.

Dang it!

After a lot of thought, I imagine the greatest single thing hampering this one's healing was that plug of feathers through the muscle on the back side of the femur. I was in the process of taking a picture of that just a minute ago and the camera batteries picked that moment to die so they're recharging and I'll attach a picture (link) of that later. Anyhow, I think since it stuck to the inside and was fairly rough, it's possible that it literally wore a hole that started enlarging by way of rotting. Obviously, something blasted those feathers completely through the leg to the inside but we'll never know what. And that something may very well have made the beginnings of a hole on the other side (the inside of the leg) in blasting through, as well.

That bird ("DD" for "Duck Decoy", which was how she was sitting when I first noticed her) is doing just fine, by the way. She's standing all the time anymore (I think she doesn't like sitting in poop) and, while she doesn't move around much, she's quite alert. I moved Jag's (named after Feather's butler's car) brick over to the other side of his cage so that he could easily see her and vice versa. It's funny--they're very quiet together, but company.

Realistically, the toughest part of this particular case (so far, anyway) was climbing the tree in the dark. The second toughest part was getting down to business removing the debris from the wound--that's always a psychological battle. I did put the two stitches in to gather the worst of the wound together and that was EFFORT (try holding a bird down, its leg out of the way and putting two stitches in on your own sometime and you'll understand) so maybe that part really was the worst of it but I got through it, it's over and the bird's well under way to healing. 

Of course, this time I'm not going into it ignorant of the fact that the wound is going to have to be repeatedly cleaned out due to the progression of the epithelialization (do you realize that word is much easier to spell than to actually say correctly?) to this point. However, I think it will "fill in" in the deepest part of the valley and eventually right itself all the way if Pierpont's chest was any indication.

Pidgey


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## jazaroo

Hi Pidgey,

Your right, nasty looking wound. A thought that came to mind was perhaps a talon strike, which would explain the punctures and the feathers being driven in.

Thanks for the pics and update, sounds like she is now pointed in the right direction on the road to recovery.

Ron


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## Pidgey

Well, I added the picture of the plug with feathers that was blown through to the other pictures:

http://community.webshots.com/album/553159015dObcmS

That was a rather large plug through the leg. I had to trim a lot off of it before I could get it back through the hole (it would NOT come out the other way). The remaining hole in the actual leg could probably have passed a dime on edge with a bit of stretching. It had already skinned in around the foreign debris but it'll close up now in time.

Pidgey


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## Maggie-NC

Pidgey, could it have been a bullet wound?


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## Pidgey

I don't think so. I've thought long and hard and have finally decided that truth is often stranger than fiction. It could have been anything from a collision with a hood ornament to... I don't know what. We'll never know unless a psychic "talks" to DD and usually they're too busy grubbing money instead of winning lotteries like they should.

I need to go ahead and float her poop because, while there's plenty of it, it has that funny sheen that says something's not quite right. That's minor compared to the rest of it, though. She is limping around now and starting to explore her new territory although she'd hunkered down for a lazy afternoon by the time I left home at lunch.

I went ahead and added the picture of her sitting in the water pan like a duck decoy, by the way. She stayed that way without moving a feather for over an hour.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey

Well, the bird's slowly healing. I had put two stitches in earlier to help hold the gash part way closed. It looks to me like that portion (about an inch long) is actually holding. Now, what that's doing is causing a that gash to become something more like a pocket. It's open just in front of the true knee but it tends to stay together. This keeps the inner lining of the pocket moisturized so that the debris being thrown off stays somewhat soft. 

However, it makes debriding it tougher because it has to be done through the aperture of the portion of the gash just in front of the knee which is currently about an inch long. The entire thing was almost three inches long before and it has closed up some besides the portion that I stitched up. I think tonight I'll use the tube-feeding gear to inject some higher pressure saline in there to help flush it back out and I'll try to do an inspection with my endoscope (handy when you need it but otherwise useless).

After I put the stitches in on Monday, it just seemed prudent to leave them in and pack the wound with NeoSporin to both kill germs and slow the healing process as well. I haven't had the heart to cut the two stitches to see how things have been going seeing as how that portion seems to be knitting back together pretty well. For those of you who remember Pierpont's story, her chest flaps refused to knit back together until a membrane formed underneath. That's how I thought this one was going to go but it might be staying moist enough in there to do a better job of healing. That could be the difference between Pierpont's flaps being pulled over a large, flat expanse and this being a deep crevice that needs to heal together.

Some of you may remember me having quoted Harrison is saying "avian heterophils lack a proteinase necessary to liquify necrotic tissue". What that essentially means is that a bird's body has a hard time "digesting" dead or dying tissue from the inside. As such, they often secrete calcium into it to turn it into a rock, and hopefully a harmless one at that (infection contained). In this case, the gash was exposed to air and germs and a lot of the exposed tissue ended up dying, drying and becoming a fertile ground for some nasty bacteria. So now that the gash is somewhat held together, the entire inside surface tends to form something like a weak, rotten leather layer that has to be cleaned out from time to time (every few days) to keep the pocket from closing altogether and encasing the debris that can breed germs from now til doomsday (for the bird at least).

If done religiously, the pocket will slowly shrink in size until it finally heals out flush to the surface. This is certainly not comfortable for the bird in any way, shape or form but it's one of those things that has to be done. If the high-pressure wash works (like it did with Pierpont), it won't really be THAT uncomfortable (easy for me to say, huh?) besides the aggravation of being restrained. The alternative would be to remove the stitches and maybe have to cut that skin if it's healed as good as I think it's doing and I just can't bring myself to do that. 

Anyhow, I'll let y'all know. I can take a picture but there's nowhere near as much to see on the outside now--it's all taking place on the inside and I can't take a picture through the endoscope, dang it!

Pidgey


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## Reti

Great job, Pidgey.
I am glad he healing nicely. Please do keep us updated about his progress.
Will you eventually suture the whole wound or you think it will heal by itself?

Reti


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## Pidgey

Not a good idea to suture something like that closed. It would only abscess. This is in that family of "healing by third intention":

http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/healing+by+third+intention

That's what happens when wound is open too long and infected with too much crap (literally, in this case). Therefore, I put the stitches in to hold it partially closed so that it wouldn't have such a problem with dehydration while remaining open enough to drain. It's also helpful by holding the NeoSporin in.

Pidgey


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## Skyeking

Hi Pidgey,

Thanks for the update.

It really would be nice if he/she could talk and tell you what happened.

I'm going to continue to send good endo-ecto healing thoughts about the wound, and that it won't be too terribly long term for the birds sake, and its wonderful caregiver.


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## Pidgey

Well, I think she's finally starting to feel a little better as I see she decided to fly up to a board and perch. She's also putting the leg down a little more.

Jag (the other one) is starting the squeak/honk shift. I haven't seen any indication that Jag has any motor control in that wing at all yet. I'm starting to worry more about his long-term flight prognosis than DD's leg. It's definitely nothing to do with the bones of the wing itself so it just about has to be a shoulder or nerve injury.

Oh, well, this weekend was less rough but I got another one in yesterday--a pigeon on the ground in my yard that couldn't take off. I captured her pretty easy and felt a huge load of water in the crop. Almost under pressure. Isolated that one with papers underneath and that load didn't go down in the least some four hours later. Nasty breath, too, and some water would leak out that was horrible-smelling.

I swabbed when I brought her in but couldn't find any trichomonads. What do you do in such a case? Panic and treat anyway! So, I put about a 40 milligram piece of Flagyl down as well as about 40 milligrams of Nystatin (Medistatin) powder and had to go to a shindig east of town. 

Got back after 11:00 PM and looked in--only the smallest drops of reduced urates and bile so nothing really getting through yet, not even enough to float a fecal. You can't let that go on for long because they can go down pretty quick. So, I milked the bird's crop (man, I hate doing that) and got nothing out but a slightly milky (probably the Flagyl) and very nasty smelling water, then put down 1 milliliter of water with an eighth-tablet of crushed Flagyl, another 40 milligrams of Nystatin and a 0.15 milliliter load of Liquid Levamisol in case the blockage was caused by worms. That was at midnight.

This morning--lots of poop, she's eating like a pig(eon) and drinking pretty well. I'll never know whether I got the right perp with the shotgun blast or it was going to happen anyway, BUT I'm delighted at this point. I even got wing-flipped and groused at! I told Lin early on that this bird was either going to die fast or make a dramatic recovery (either way this means gone quick). I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this bird continues to <ahem!> like a goose for the next 24 hours.

Pidgey


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## Skyeking

They sure know how to find you, huh?

I'm glad the new bird is doing so well. That poop had to be a happy surprise.  

So now it looks like DD is on her way to recovery. I sure hope Jag's prognosis for eventual flight will get better too.

Sending continuing GOOD HEALING thoughts for all 3.


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## Feather

T.R.

About how old is your new ill bird. What would cause the crop to stay full like That. Why that choice of Medication. Would it be an infection that makes the crop stay full. My little bubble bird filled with air. I don't know if you remember him but, this lady brought him to me. When I went into the house to get something to release the air, my naughty birds popped him. You taught me about all of the air sacks a pigeon has. Well he is doing great, and has never had another episode. 

But, what would cause liquid to stay in the crop?

Feather


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## Pidgey

Treesa,

Yeah, our local flock (heavy on the "our" as we keep food and water out for them) certainly does. Realistically, that bird came for the water and probably drank so much because she was dehydrating rapidly on the 100+ day. She got such a large load that she couldn't take off, though, in her weakened condition. She's snapping back pretty rapidly now, though. I reached in to get the water bowl out to clean it up and she used both karate and judo on me. She'd a made Bruce Lee proud because it was extremely rapid fire. And, judging by the sounds she made, Eddie Murphy would have been pretty happy, too. I've been attacked before but rarely with that gusto!

Feather,

Well, she's an adult of indeterminate age. My reasoning for those medications went something like this: it was some kind of blockage or GI stasis (meaning the normal muscular "wave action" called "peristalsis" that propels food through the GI tract had stopped cold). The most likely suspects for that (which I had medications for that don't interact) were canker down in the crop (thus the Metronidazole), worms (Levamisole--an interesting wormer but vets can't get it anymore in the USA) and candidiasis (Nystatin, which is easiest to get as "Medistatin" from one of the pigeon supply houses). Judging by the god-awful smell, "sour crop" was certainly a possibility but it could have been so nasty because of canker, too. I can't identify which it is by the smell. Since the water that came out had its own horrible smell and I couldn't immediately find trichomonads in the scope, I just went for broke and shotgunned her.

Mind you, we're not out of the woods yet because the bird started eating a lot this morning including field corn. If there's a restriction from the crop to the proventriculus or from the proventriculus to the ventriculus, that might present a problem. Darn bird couldn't take it easy for a few days, could she? I could kick myself for leaving that stuff in there but I didn't expect to see such a turnaround so quick--I figured she'd be a bit low on appetite for another day or so.

Oh, well. If it's a problem, she'll throw it back up in a day or so. Goodness knows she's got enough energy at the moment to rough up my hand in a New York Minute so we've got the reserves to carry through for a few days if need be. Actually, she might throw up anyway when I give her another dose of Levamisole. Levamisole also does something funny in that it will boost the immune system.

Pidgey


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## mr squeaks

As a Guardian of the Broken Pigeons elite, Pidgey, you are not destined to be given much rest! That's the bad news.

(I also remember something about "no rest for the wicked," but that's _*another*_ story).  

The GOOD news is, these pigeons are in excellent hands because time and tome have increased your knowledge and expertise.

SPP Squeaks and I send our _WARMEST_ and * STRONGEST* *HEALING VIBES TO ALL...*

*(NOTE: Do not neglect your rest!)*


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## TerriB

Pidgey said:


> ...pack the wound with NeoSporin to both kill germs and slow the healing process as well...
> Pidgey


Why would NeoSporin slow the healing process?


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## Pidgey

Terri,

Well, I've read several places where they talk about that in woundcare. I just did a bigger search and things are kinda' vague. Sometimes, it seems to be due to the antibiotic in the ointment actually interfering with the body's repair work. I'll tell you what I didn't want in this case--I didn't want the body to form too much scar tissue because I felt it would hamper the closure of the gash. I wanted the body to be able to "fill in" the valley until it came up level with the edges. It's in a really bad place, after all.

Last night, I did a major debriding all the way down and we're looking a lot better now. It's definitely going our way and there's nothing to worry about at this stage. I had forgotten to mention that all of the surrounding tissue was very yellowed with the same type of inflammatory debris that builds up with Trichomoniasis, only more distributed instead of a single lump. That told me that infection was widespread and I needed the systemic antibiotics to clear that up before much could be done at the site of the actual damage.

Anyhow, we're almost completely pinked out now and the valley has shortened in both depth and length. I took a quick look this morning and it's mostly just pink membrane at this point. There is a little bit of garbage that's still sticking on but, on the whole, it's filling in nicely. I can no longer see the side of the femur (thank goodness!). I took her off the Metronidazole late last week and off the Baytril last night. For the next week, it's only going to be the Keflex. They don't seem to do as well going off too many antibiotics cold turkey so we're staging it. Not dropping the dosages, just an antibiotic at a time.

The hole through the posterier thigh muscles is filling in, too. I think from here on out, it should finish pretty quickly. I'll need to keep her in for about a week after it completely skins over to make sure that she doesn't rebound into Coccidiosis after all those meds but that's not a problem as she's a very-easy-to-keep pigeon. She's not in a cage because there's no need. She doesn't wander around at all and she doesn't mind me pottering about her area. This is one of the few birds that really seems to understand that I'm here to help although she's still doesn't have it in her to willingly open her beak to take her meds.

The one with the soured crop is eating like there's no tomorrow and almost pooping me out of house and home so I guess we've got that fixed. I'm only continuing the Nystatin at this point because her crop feels... "leathery" through the feathers. It's just not as soft as they normally are. It's getting better but slowly.

The one with the damaged shoulder is very nearly the same. I have to do physical therapy on the shoulder every day because it's actually getting stiff. I think this one might end up staying for a few months at the least.

Pidgey


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## Maggie-NC

Hey our Pidgey

Boy, that is great news all the way around.


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## jazaroo

Yes indeed, very good news.

Thanks for the update.

Ron


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## Skyeking

I'm glad you have such a well-behaved patient, and things definitely are looking up.


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## TerriB

Wow, that's a wonderful improvement! I really find the updates useful information, in terms of expected progress and things to watch out for. Knowing what is normal at any stage is so important. It's also fascinating how each bird brings their own personality to the situation. Thanks!


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## Pidgey

On the gash, it makes a pocket about the size of a quarter now. It used to be the size of two, side by side, with a dime or two for good measure. So, it's shrinking rapidly now. There's already enough tissue reconnected up the sides that the leg can't go out in "the splits" like it did. Also, the hole through the back thigh muscles has sealed off now--you can just barely see where it was. And she's walking on it more now, too. It is forming the white cheesy stuff (which is different from the yellow cheesy stuff of Trichomoniasis).

I released the bird with the crop stasis because it was just fine. That one went straight to the flock today.

The other one is still making pitiful noises whenever one of us is near and isn't moving the wing at all.

Pidgey


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## mr squeaks

So glad to hear the croppy pij is out and about again!

Looks like DD is healing just fine! Great news!  

I'm sorry to hear about Jag...why do I get the impression that he/she is gonna be a long termer! I don't think I've ever heard of a pigeon who will deliberately prey on our sympathies!*

Then again, there's always a first time....  

*(Squeak's cooing to me as mate, from his favorite corner in the kitchen, does NOT count!


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## Feather

WoW! Good guess on the double of meds for that little bird. Glad that she is back with her flock. Poor Jags, I thought she sought out the water for relief, I didn't even think it was the dehydration. How is the she eating? Maybe she'll be a keeper.

Feather


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## mr squeaks

Feather said:


> WoW! Good guess on the double of meds for that little bird. Glad that she is back with her flock. *Poor Jags,* I thought she sought out the water for relief, I didn't even think it was the dehydration. How is the she eating? *Maybe she'll be a keeper.*
> 
> Feather


Y'know, Feather, I just thought that _*maybe*_ Jag is a HEN and has "chosen" Pidgey for her mate!

Sure would explain a LOT! ROFL...


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## Pidgey

mr squeaks said:


> Y'know, Feather, I just thought that _*maybe*_ Jag is a HEN and has "chosen" Pidgey for her mate!
> 
> Sure would explain a LOT! ROFL...


Jag certainly nags me enough for that to be the case... 

DD's wound is down to the size of half of a dime (not the same as nickel), now. I think that the residual mechanical damage is going to be a lot harder to heal, though. That means that just because the wound is healed doesn't mean that the functionality is restored--I think that's going to be a lot harder row to hoe. Therefore, instead of releasing her as soon as the wound is completely closed, I'm going to put her out in the loft (with the other children) to see if that'll help motivate her to use the leg more and get some functionality back. 

You see, she's really taking it too easy as it is--you'd get the idea that with the close proximity of food, water and resting comfort, she's turned into a couch-pij-tato. 

And we can't have that.

She needs to learn to be a lean, mean, seed-eating machine!

Pidgey


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## Reti

Oh, Pidgy there's nothing wrong with being a couch-pij-tato. Let her be one, she deserves to be spoiled 

Reti


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## Feather

I agree with Reti! She is probably just resting after swimming all those laps in the tub.

Feather


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## mr squeaks

You see, she's really taking it too easy as it is--you'd get the idea that with the close proximity of food, water and resting comfort, she's turned into a couch-pij-tato. 

And we can't have that.

*She needs to learn to be a lean, mean, seed-eating machine*!

Pidgey[/QUOTE]

Mmm, I think those words would be more aptly applied to a male pij. Maybe for now, she deserves to be a well-rounded couch-pij-tato on temporary vacation...  

Jag would be quite stressed to be deprived of her new-found mate, strange tho he might be!


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## Pidgey

Well, I think we've come to a plateau on the leg healing due to a completely mechanical issue. When you look into the half-dime sized pocket, there are little caves going off into what was the original wound. That is, there are webs of tissue that are beginning to resemble normal fascia. However, they can't get it closed because she's always standing with that leg kinda' out to the side.

Therefore, I'm going to have to do it this way--I'm going to have to put a couple of sutures in as stays to hold the leg more inward while that tissue welds back together more solidly. Unfortunately, I can't leave it closed for more than a few days because there will be some buildup of that caseous material that'll have to be cleaned out from time to time. Eventually, when the deeper portions get solidly stuck together, then it'll heal outward but until then, we're going to have to do it this way, I'm afraid. I put some ezymatic debrider in there last night so that I can give a thorough cleaning and suture it up tonight. I'll try to get Lin to take a picture before and after the sutures.

Pidgey


----------



## Maggie-NC

Our Pidgey

Good luck. I am interested in seeing pictures.


----------



## Pidgey

Okay, the last five pictures are here (just click on the pic):



Pidgey


----------



## Feather

That is amazing! Was the wound jagged at all? It appears as though you had to piece and patch. Is the wound (that is still open) where the plug of feathers was taken out. Everything looks pretty clean, including your very nice manicure.

Feather


----------



## Pidgey

The wound was very large originally (~three inches long in a curve but also in a single plane) and it's pretty small now in comparison (3/4" long). However, we're down to the stage of slowly sealing off a pocket which takes a lot more time than you'd think. Crap tends to form in the pocket which gets in the way of closing it down. Nothing had to be pieced or patched, just keep clean and close. The plug of feathers was blown through (a second hole through to the big wound) the actual muscles of the leg and wasn't shown in any of the pictures. That hole through is almost not even findable anymore.

Pidgey


----------



## Maggie-NC

Thanks Pidgey

You gotta have nerves of steel. You're helping those pigeons in a way I could never do and I really admire you for doing so. I know my limitations and doubt very seriously I could ever attempt something like that.


----------



## mr squeaks

Seem to be doin' great so far, Pidgey. I'm confident we will have good news about her recovery...at least to be the best that she can be!

Too bad I don't live closer. Would be happy to surgery assist when Lin might need a break. Seven yrs. helping my Vet boss with surgery weren't for nothin'!

Always said if I had a wound, I would like him to stitch me up! He was GOOD!


----------



## Pidgey

I'll tell you what I'm going to have to do--I'm just going to have to stop having weekends although this one started with a different twist: I'm the one that got hurt Friday evening before I got home. I got a cut on my chin that was pretty deep and about 5/8" long. Bled like a stuck hog, too. Had to drive straight home keeping pressure and I knew it was going to be real trouble because Lin CANNOT stand the sight of blood.

I washed up and kept pressure on at the outside faucet until I finally got it under control. Then, I snuck inside and made it to the bathroom without her seeing me until I got it manageable enough to start pottering around for sutures and instruments (I'm NOT going to a hospital for something this trivial). Eventually, though, I knew I'd have to face the music and, when queried from the other room, I 'fessed up what I was doing. Naturally that brought her barrelling in like a freight train.

She swooned and started weaving about like a drunk. She wasn't sure whether to cry, faint, yell at me or tow me to the car for a trip to the hospital so she tried doing all four at once. The combination presented as slumping into a chair rather helplessly, quivering and making some occasionally intelligible mumblings. I became concerned that she wasn't going to make it and mouth-to-mouth resuscitation was... out of the question!

I applied reasoning coupled with nonchalance and threw in some silliness for good measure but she was still flatlined. Time for the paddles: I reminded her that a trip to the hospital would cost money. Instant heartbeat. After a few moments, she was suggesting that she'd watched me a little and, "maybe I can do it... "

I knew better than that--you don't submit to an invasive procedure from a first-time surgeon with an immediately-recent history of an NDE (Near-Death Experience), especially one that CANNOT tolerate the sight of blood. Ever. So, I showed her the wound by holding it open and that put her back down in the chair, but not so mortally this time.

Anyhow, it's fun suturing with a mirror because everything's backwards. I only put two stitches in with 5-0 Prolene with a 3/8" conventional cutting needle, no anaesthetic. If I don't give the birds one, then I don't get any either ("what's good for the goose is good for the gander").

So, a wonderful three-day holiday weekend off to a great start. At least I was able to rally her to go out and eat like we'd planned.

Pidgey


----------



## pigeonmama

Pidgey,
What's wrong with a little silver nitrate and steristrips? Better yet, I'll come down next time and do a little crewel(cruel) work on ya, next time, to make up for my cataract surgery description.
Daryl


----------



## Pidgey

pigeonmama said:


> Pidgey,
> What's wrong with a little silver nitrate and steristrips? Better yet, I'll come down next time and do a little crewel(cruel) work on ya, next time, to make up for my cataract surgery description.
> Daryl


No good on the steristrips--I didn't want to shave the beard off.

And you're not going to be doing something like that on me until AFTER your cattylack Sir Jury!

Pidgey


----------



## Maggie-NC

My Baytril formulary just won't cover someone your size  . 

Can we see a picture of the wound so we can possibly give you more advice? 

Did it hurt when you stitched it? 

Are you out of your mind?


----------



## Pidgey

Lady Tarheel said:


> My Baytril formulary just won't cover someone your size  .
> 
> Can we see a picture of the wound so we can possibly give you more advice?
> 
> Did it hurt when you stitched it?
> 
> *Are you out of your mind?*


Thanks for caring! 

As to a picture, there's really not much to see.

It didn't hurt much and it was too interesting for me to think much about it.

Pidgey


----------



## mr squeaks

Mmm, somehow you stitching up your own wound comes as no surprise! AND, I'm also not surprised you aren't posting a picture! 

WHY would you want a BEARD in the SUMMER?? Yep, Maggie was right all along...you ARE out of your mind!  

Yeah, I bet Pigeonmama would be GREAT at suturing you, Pidgey! ROFL

Hopefully, Lin is fully recovered?? Wine always helps... 

My only question is: HOW did you cut your chin? C'on, 'fess up...we promise not to laugh....much...


----------



## Feather

Yes, I am a nosy member, and I would like to know how this terrible Boo Boo took place. I hope that you didn't stitch up a plug of hair (whiskers) in that wound, because that will make your nose and ear hair longer. What kind of meds to you have on hand? You are getting to be a little to old to hang out at the skate board park on week-ends.

Just deworm yourself, take one of those double med doses, chase it with AVC water how ever much you want, and call us in the morning. 

Feather


----------



## Lin Hansen

Lady Tarheel said:


> My Baytril formulary just won't cover someone your size.
> 
> Can we see a picture of the wound so we can possibly give you more advice?
> 
> Did it hurt when you stitched it?
> 
> Are you out of your mind?


Hey Maggie, you forgot to ask how do the poops look?  


Seriously, Pidgey, hope you are okay....Sheesh, must be something stitching up your own face!  My son had a pretty good wound like that just under his chin and hubby fixed him up with some butterfly bandages. Healed up fine with a very fine scar. But, I guess "butterflies" wouldn't work so well with a beard...

Poor Pidgey and poor Lin!

Linda


----------



## mr squeaks

Mmmm, Poor Lin, YES! Poor Pidgey...oh, I don't know...

I bet he comes up with a WHOPPER of a tale on HOW he managed to injure himself (we will probably NEVER know the truth!)

Of COURSE he stitiched himself...WHEN and IF he shaves off the beard (AFTER the cut heals I would hope!), just think of the neat story he can tell about his scar:

"I was saving a pigeon caught by a hawk. I saved the pij but one of the hawk's talons raked me across the chin! The hawk wasn't happy about losing his meal! The pigeon, thank goodness, is doing fine...just a few places to stitch along with mine! No big deal!"    


**SIGH* OUR HERO!*


----------



## TerriB

Pidgey, so sorry about your injury. Sounds like you had an excellent triage physician.  Hope you heal quickly and smoothly!

Regarding the photos of the leg injury, pretty cool how you embedded the webshots link into the mouse-over! In the last photo, what isthe dark area at the most interior part of the wound? It looks vaguely like two liver-colored capsules.


----------



## Reti

OMG, Pidgey, how could you stitch up yourself. I could never do it on myself.
One good thing you did it yourself, you didn't have to shave your beard.
Hope Lin is recovering nicely.

Reti


----------



## Pidgey

Oh, y'all ARE going to get a kick out of the actual BooBoo when I get time to tell it.

TerriB, actually Webshots now provides links that you can cut-and-paste for various applications when you upload pictures. I had no idea it was going to turn out like that.

Reti, I'm pretty sure that Lin's going to make it--I'm considering moving her from ICU to the regular ward, now.

Lin Hansen, the poops are solid and teeming with good bacteria although I haven't done a fecal for worms, coccidia or anything else.

Pidgey


----------



## Maggie-NC

In the last photo, what isthe dark area at the most interior part of the wound? It looks vaguely like two liver-colored capsules


Pidgey, I wondered about the same thing Terri did. Are they veins? ??


----------



## pigeonmama

I bet Pidgey fell down and sat on himself.
Daryl


----------



## Pidgey

Oh, the darkness isn't what you're thinking--that's just the problem of the exposure of the inner pocket not being anything near good enough to be on a level with the outer stuff. In other words, it's a camera thing. No, inside that pocket, it's pretty much like the inside of your mouth. There's nothing really liver-colored although there is some scab-like debris around the edges.

Pidgey

P.S. No, Pigeonmama, I didn't fall down or sit on myself.


----------



## Maggie-NC

Thanks, Pidgey


----------



## Feather

T.R.

One morning on the news I heard that more and more surgeons were using crazy glue in place of sutures. That very day I was outside cleaning the lofts and tore a pretty good opening on the inside of my knee with a piece of wire. 

I came running inside and there was the Crazy Glue sitting right on top of the of the desk. I had no intentions of stitching myself up, but the wound was deep and needed a coulple of stiches, so I used it. At first it looked like it was going to have some big time scar tissue. Actually I forgot about it until I read your post. It healed very very nicely, you can't even see a scar. So next time you try to fly, and need a seamtress grab the Crazy Glue. 

Feather


----------



## Pidgey

Crazy glue for crazy people?

Actually, I cut a hole in my inner forearm once (it would been about seven stitches) and glued it back together like you're describing with superglue. It was cleaning it out that was the worst--you could see the tendons going to the hand and watch them work.

For anyone reading this--you don't put the superglue on the bloody edges. It's best to put it on the dry, exterior skin and pucker it inward together to stick it together.

Pidgey


----------



## Feather

Yes T.R.... exactly! It is fast drying, and there is a nice clean little line. I would have never thought of it in a million years, but I heard it on the news that very morning

How did it heal?


----------



## TerriB

Pidgey said:


> For anyone reading this--you don't put the superglue on the bloody edges. It's best to put it on the dry, exterior skin and pucker it inward together to stick it together.
> Pidgey


Thanks for the details, in case the need ever arises.


----------



## Pidgey

Feather said:


> Yes T.R.... exactly! It is fast drying, and there is a nice clean little line. I would have never thought of it in a million years, but I heard it on the news that very morning
> 
> How did it heal?


That was back in '93 and it healed fine with an inch-long scar perpendicular to the line of the forearm about three inches from the wrist. There's not a lot of traction there but there is some (tension on the skin) so I actually had to redo the glue a few times in ten days. It's under more tension when you pucker it under anyhow. The skin slowly lets loose because skin cells are shedding and that's why you have to redo them from time to time in some places. To my mind, stitches are more reliable.

Pidgey


----------



## pigeonmama

So, Pidgey,
Just how did you hurt your chin? Some little old lady smack you with her purse?
Daryl


----------



## Pidgey

You wish.

Pidgey


----------



## mr squeaks

Pidgey said:


> You wish.
> 
> Pidgey


Yeah, I wish too! Especially since I see you are taking your own sweet time telling us HOW you cut your chin...

Probably did something not too bright...can we say "accident prone?"  

Oh, needle, needle, needle...I soooo love to needle! (pun intended!)


----------



## jazaroo

Pidgey, I must say, it looks and sounds like you've done a very nice job on both of your patients.

All the best,

Ron


----------



## Pidgey

Well, DD's leg is finally wanting to seal off for good. I can tell that he's (starting to lean towards DD being a "he") feeling better because he's starting to pick on the little one as well as trying to get the little one to come to his "nest". In other words, he's getting both mischievous as well as deciding that he wants to move in. He still favors the leg alot but I better get him out in the loft where he can get some REAL physical therapy.

Jag, the little one, continues to trip on his wing and I know pretty much for certain that the nerves must have been damaged up near the spine. It's entirely possible that he's been this way since the nest but we'll never know. He's been rookooing lately so he's starting to show some attitude.

There's a third one that I don't remember mentioning that has a broken wing (radius and ulna) that's recouping in the coop by those two. I actually think that one's going to be able to fly again. So, that's three that are just about ready to go out in the loft at the moment.

As to me, well, the stitches are ready to come out and I told Lin that she could do that tonight so that she can get used to doing medical things. It's all in the plan to get her (eventually) to where she can stand the sight of blood.

As far as how it happened, I'll tell ya' now. I didn't have the time to tell that part of the story earlier because I didn't want Lin finding out (looking over my shoulder to read it). It turns out that I'd gone over to a lady's house to pick up some Shaklee Basic-G and while I was on her porch, her little dachsund came out and acted interested and friendly. I petted the dog and didn't think anything about it. When I started to leave, the dog just went with me like it was natural, not heeding the lady's call to come back. I finally stopped, looked down at the dog who looked up at me saintly and I figured I'd just pick him up and take him back.

Mistake. The dog didn't seem to mind until he got most of the way up and then he turned into the Hound of the Baskervilles, reaching up and biting my chin, and then each hand. He made a lot of noise, too, especially when I dropped him. It was good to see him headed to the porch, but I'd rather the circumstances had been different...

Oddly enough, the worst of it was that there was a persistent smell of the dog's saliva that was more than simply reminiscent of sh*t. I thought to myself, "this is just GREAT: a sh*t-eating dog just tried to eat me alive--what should I think of this?" It took me more time and effort with several different disinfectants to get rid of that smell than it took to do the stitches. For awhile, I despaired that I was ever going to get rid of it!

Pidgey


----------



## Maggie-NC

Pidgey, maybe Alvin can work the weiner dog into Season 2 and let the SPP's pay him back with smelly pigeon poo. Did the lady say anything?


----------



## Pidgey

Yeah... I think I'd like that!

Well, the lady did say, "are you alright?" You know how cuts on the face work--they think about it for awhile and then start gushing. I think I got away before it got really bad.

Pidgey


----------



## Feather

Oh No! A real live Dr. Pidgiestein. If the lady sales Shaklee, maybe she should keep killer locked up when people go to pick up their orders.

I hope that the wound is healing well.

Thank you for the update on Jag and DD, and your new little one.


----------



## mr squeaks

Mmmm, what to say on THAT one...I DO hope you are up-to-date on your Tetanus shots? You are too valuable to lose...

First, Dachsunds can be notoriously protective of their families. My parents had one name Chula (means "cute" in Spanish") and she was...to us...woe to any stranger, however! Also saw the same thing when working for a Vet. My boss only trusted me to "hold" a dog because he knew that I would not panic and let the dog bite him. Of course, some of the owners were nonplussed when their darling little "poopsie" turned into the dog from hell (especially some of the smaller breeds!)

SO, were you out of your mind? (to quote other members!) NEVER pick up a strange dog, no matter HOW friendly (ESPECIALLY Dachsunds and Chihuahuas!). I think you are a dog person and should know better although I DO understand your reasoning.

You could have had your throat ripped instead of your chin! Sorry if I'm coming down hard, but you scared the s**t out of me!

I thought you had done something innocuously stupid...boy, was I wrong...I'd rather face an angry cat than a dog...any day...

BTW, re: LIN: once leery of blood...probably ALWAYS leery of blood!

HOPE YOU ARE DOING OK...


----------



## mr squeaks

Oh, got so carried away on my last post that I forgot to mention that the "smell" could mean the dog is in dire need of a dental checkup! OR, he has an anal gland problem...I would guess the former, however...

All the more reason to get a Tetanus shot if you haven't already...


----------



## mr squeaks

Since you are rarely posting much lately, I can assume that is because of your heavy WORK load and NOT because of any of the above circumstances???

Outwardly, you should be nicely healed, especially if you did a bang-up job on that stitching (no scar?). BUT, who knows what those little germies are doing running around _inside._

However, enough about you...HOW ARE THE PIJIES? We haven't had an update in AGES!

BTW, is UNIE still getting her flying exercises??

Have you had ANY time to continue your "germ water" experiments, Dr. Pigeonstein???


----------



## Pidgey

Well, lately l HAVE been having problems with foaming at the mouth... 

Looking on the bright side, though, I don't need toothpaste anymore and my teeth are clenched so brushing the teeth is a snap these days... Seriously, the outside is fully healed and I think I'd have to take the beard off to find the scar visually although I can feel the typical hardness if I work my fingers over the site. Not a problem.

As to the birds, DD is out in the loft toughening up and I see that it's working. He's (whatever DD is) is walking a lot more and interacting with the other birds now instead of hiding up in the darkest corner of the rafters. He' been off the antibiotics for a week or two, now, so we're lookin' pretty good. I haven't picked off the latest scab but I doubt that there's much of a hole anymore. 

Jag's shoulder has hardened up pretty bad and there's just no way that he'll ever fly again. The wing actually wants to go downward and so it gets into his feet. I've had to trim the feathers on that side and I'm going to have to do it even more severely. It's probably going to come down to him needing part of that wing amputated just for the inconvenience of it seeing as how I won't be able to trim those feathers while they're in the "blood feather" stage and they REALLY affect his ability to walk. I haven't found a way to keep them up and out of the way since they're pulled right down almost to the keel.

The third bird with the broken wing is coming along nicely--he can fly a little bit. I'll take both him and Jag out to the loft for little bits here pretty soon and start them to learning the way of the loft.

This was another horribly ROUGH weekend, the worse because I had to attend an event that I'm too embarrassed to admit to on this board. It was for a good friend so it was a charity case, but still...

Pidgey


----------



## mr squeaks

Many thanks for the updates!

Hey, Squeaks is doing QUITE well without his whole wing! Before it was amputated, the wing hung down and affected his "walk" also. When the re-bandaging didn't help, well...off with the wing section!

You forgot to mention UNIE...understandable, since it sounds like you've been through a LOT lately...in all sincerity, my condolences (I think)...

Oh yes, AND the Trich experiments...(darn, almost forgot...and I haven't been through anything ROUGH at ALL!)


----------



## Pidgey

Unie's doing pretty well although she tries too hard these days. I need to get her to calm down a bit although I haven't figured out how I'm going to do that. I could try giving her the same stuff that I tried on YoYo and see if that helps. What I mean by her trying too hard is that she sometimes just flaps too hard and ends up going backwards.

I got such mixed results with the trich experiments and with not enough time to do it properly that I suspended it for awhile. There were too many days that I couldn't find any even in untreated water. I really need a controlled sample that I can maintain a colony of the little buggers in and do it that way. There was also some other kind of motile bug that I was having problems identifying and I'd see more of them than the trich.

Pidgey


----------



## mr squeaks

Pidgey said:


> Unie's doing pretty well although she tries too hard these days. I need to get her to calm down a bit although I haven't figured out how I'm going to do that. I could try giving her the same stuff that I tried on YoYo and see if that helps. What I mean by her trying too hard is that she sometimes just flaps too hard and ends up going backwards.
> 
> *Poor Unie, I hope she can still continue her flying "lessons!" I thought her main problem was the landing...*
> 
> I got such mixed results with the trich experiments and with not enough time to do it properly that I suspended it for awhile. There were too many days that I couldn't find any even in untreated water. I really need a controlled sample that I can maintain a colony of the little buggers in and do it that way. *There was also some other kind of motile bug that I was having problems identifying and I'd see more of them than the trich.*Pidgey


Uh, I hate to say this, BUT, you have to STOP spitting in the water samples!!

Regarding your previous over the weekend incident (sorry, can't resist), you didn't just HAPPEN to find another dog did you...you dog?! Maybe, THIS time belonging to a _friend?_

Any more incidences with your face and you are going end up with such a splotchy beard, people will call you "SPOTS!" Besides, WHAT are you trying to cover with a beard, anyway? You're too old for acne... 

Foaming or drooling? Shoot, I bet you do that anyway!


----------



## Pidgey

Uhh... no... not a dog...

Pidgey


----------



## mr squeaks

*This was another horribly ROUGH weekend, the worse because I had to attend an event that I'm too embarrassed to admit to on this board. It was for a good friend so it was a charity case, but still...*

Oh oh, alarm bells are going off! RE-reading your sentence...you got involved with something that probably EMBARRASSED the HECK out of YOU, but had the fans rolling in the aisles!

AND, who was the friend and what or who was the charity...or did you end up the "charity?" 

Oh, c'mon, Pidge...we ALL should be able to laugh at ourselves...you didn't go mechanical bull ridin' did you?

*of course, IF it's YOU...wellllll ROFLMAO!*


----------



## Pidgey

Just can't leave it alone, can you, Squawks? She's the widow of a very good older friend. Lin and I adopted her and her birthday is the day before 9/11. We took her to a Broadway musical on tour here in Tulsa last night. While I go to operas, this wasn't the kind of thing that I of all people would normally go to. Like I said, it was to make her happy.

Pidgey


----------



## mr squeaks

Pidgey said:


> Just can't leave it alone, can you, Squawks?
> 
> *NOPE, my one major mission in life is to bug you! Besides, I STILL owe you for remarks you made about my cats....and speaking of same...*
> 
> She's the widow of a very good older friend. Lin and I adopted her and her birthday is the day before 9/11. We took her to a Broadway musical on tour here in Tulsa last night. While I go to operas, this wasn't the kind of thing that I of all people would normally go to. Like I said, it was to make her happy.
> 
> *Bless you and Lin. What a lovely thing to do!*
> 
> Pidgey



...you wouldn't have happend to have gone to see *"CATS"* would you? My favorite musical!

Oh, that would be soooo rich! AND YOU a DOG person!!! 

Please, PLEASE say you went to see *CATS*!!! I will be BESIDE MYSELF with JOY!


----------



## mr squeaks

PIDGEY??? 

WHERE DID YOU GO, PIDGEY???

Come back...don't leave us all in suspense!


----------



## Pidgey

Oh,, goodness gracious, Squawks--you just HAD to say it, didn'tcha'?

*OF COURSE IT WAS *CATS!!!
Yes, Pidgey had to go and sit through CATS and PRETEND to enjoy it!!!

Happy now?

Pidgey


----------



## mr squeaks

OH, the 

JUSTICE

OF IT ALL! 

Oh dear, I just can't type anymore, I'm laughing sooooooo hard....

YES ! YES ! YES!

PAYBACKS HAVE BEEN PAID IN FULL! 

ooooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhh mmmmmmyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!


----------



## mr squeaks

*GASP*

Just dawned on me after reading the latest Alvin SPP episode (#5)...

Evil Dorian von Nastypuss INFLUENCED Pidgey's decision to see CATS! I can feel it in my bones!   

Mmmmm, DvN, maybe there IS a spark of good in you and HOPE for a turnaround one of these days!


----------



## Feather

Shi, 

You know that my birthday had some significant numbers, 06/06/06. And I will be a widow if my husband doesn't build me another loft.

I have been wanting to see "Menopause". Since Pidgey is into charity trips to the theater, for widows with special numbered birthdays, I think when the menopause tour goes through Tulsa, we should be there. Pack, Shi! Lets be ready. Pegionmama...are you coming? 

Pidgey, you will just love menopause. I'm sure you will run out and buy the sound tract after you see the stage show.

Thank You T.R., Nice to see you are into different charities. You will make alot of Ol Women happy.

Feather


----------



## Pidgey

This is getting worse all the time!

Poor, Poor Pidgey!


----------



## Feather

I think T.R. went to rest up. Didn't I say we weren't going until the show goes through Tulsa? Maybe it is in Tulsa!

He must have gone to get our tickets.

Feather


----------



## mr squeaks

Feather said:


> I think T.R. went to rest up. Didn't I say we weren't going until the show goes through Tulsa? Maybe it is in Tulsa!
> 
> He must have gone to get our tickets.
> 
> Feather


Yeah, I see that Pidgey went off site. I noticed he tends to do that when he doesn't know what to say! 

Hey, Feather, I'll meet you on the flight through Phoenix! That would be a riot! Unfortunately, I think Pidgey is MUCH too conservative to see THAT show! If his friends KNEW, he would NEVER live it down!

However, I do have a solution...Pidgey can get US the tickets and then after the show, we could drive to his home and THANK him peronally for his generosity! He could tell Lin we were his current "charity" for "mature" ladies and he wanted to do his part to make our life fuller! He also wanted us to see that Tulsa really DOES have "culture!"


----------



## Feather

I think that Pidgey and Lin would really like to see it. We don't have to tell anyone. Maybe he has already seen it. Lucky Pidgey! If he has.....then you have a good idea.

Feather


----------



## mr squeaks

Feather said:


> I think that Pidgey and Lin would really like to see it. We don't have to tell anyone. Maybe he has already seen it. Lucky Pidgey! If he has.....then you have a good idea.
> 
> Feather


Sorry, Feather, but I REALLY have to disagree with you here. I really don't think T.R. would be caught DEAD at that show - UNLESS, Lin REALLY wanted to see it and wanted him to go with her. I'm sure that he would figure out a "disguise:" shave his head and beard, wear dark glasses, change his "walk" and SLOUCH!   

Remember, things like that have a way of getting out and I, to be honest, don't know if I could keep my mouth shut! People would want to know why I'm ROFLMAO!


----------



## Feather

Well I can't bare to hurt his feelings! It is his charity! Where should we meet pigeonmama?

Feather


----------



## pigeonmama

Oh, Feather,
Thank you so much for the invite. I'd be glad to go to the show with you, Shi, Pidgey and Lin. Heck, personally, I think we should put on our own show. Pidgey can be the "front man" supply the $$$, and be the male lead. I just don't know what kind of show would best display Pidgey's talents.Can he sing? Can he dance? Now, I finally read through this thread and saw how poor Pidge was inflicted with his traumatic injury. Do ya suppose he bit the poor little weiner dog first?
Daryl


----------



## Feather

You know Pigeonmama, that is an idea that I hadn't thought of. A good one too!

I think T.R. did bite the tale of the dog. You know he is really into CATS now.

Feather


----------



## Pidgey

Uhh... y'all are takin' this a bit far, ain'tcha'? 

If I'd bit the dog, first it'd have been roasted over hot coals and smothered under chili, mustard and onions. And Fritos. Not all dogs go to Heaven, you know.

Cats don't stand much of a chance in my yard anymore. Either Lin gets 'em because they get in her flowers (ruined the Caladiums last year) or I get 'em for going after the birds. They're ALL guilty of something and that's good enough for me to run 'em off.

Pidgey


----------



## Whitefeather

pigeonmama said:


> Pidgey,
> I figured it out, you need a cooking show on Food Channel, or a few different shows, *1001 ways to cook a cat*, with Chef Pidgey, *30 minute kitty cuisine*,oh, I could go on, but I won't.
> Daryl


This is *really* inappropriate. 
Let's please cease with the so called cat 'humor'.  

Cindy


----------



## Pete Jasinski

AZWhitefeather said:


> This is *really* inappropriate.
> Let's please cease with the so called cat 'humor'.
> 
> Cindy


Please do! Dorian Von Evilpuss was even startled when he read this. As you know he's just plain evil but this was even too much for him


----------



## Feather

Why Pete? He eats your feet.

Feather


----------



## mr squeaks

Yes, I agree with Cindy. After all, look what happens when people talk about mistreating pijies! Talk about feathers flyin'! Well, same with cats, only the fur flies - in responses!

Pidgey never did say how he would feel about getting us tickets to "Menopause." In fact, he never did say whether he had seen it (bet he hasn't and won't!)

'Course, I DO realize that I could just be getting back into the frying pan. With some women, hair could start flying in response to the dreaded "M" word!  

Oh dear, his thread may be unraveling! 

NOW LOOK WHAT YOU HAVE DONE, PIDGEY! AND ALL BECAUSE A DOG BIT YOU AND YOU WENT TO SEE "CATS!"
IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT, PIDGEY! I AM JUST SO UPSET, I COULD JUST CRY - IN FACT I AM! *sob* WE WERE HAVING SO MUCH FUN TOO. DARN, DARN, DARN, I'M SO UPSET, I THINK I'LL GO SHOPPING - WELL, MAYBE A GLASS OF WINE FIRST TO SETTLE MY NERVES!


----------



## Feather

Shi,

That is all they need is you stumbling around in the mall. Have a glass of wine tonight, and go shopping tomorrow. When Menopause does hit Tulsa, we can't have you in the pokie. Truthfully I think T.R. had that on his list (right up there with CATS) as a must see.

Feather


----------



## mr squeaks

Feather said:


> Shi,
> 
> That is all they need is you stumbling around in the mall. Have a glass of wine tonight, and go shopping tomorrow. When Menopause does hit Tulsa, we can't have you in the pokie. Truthfully I think T.R. had that on his list (right up there with CATS) as a must see.
> 
> Feather


Thanks, Feather! Actually, AFTER I posted, I realized I could not drink and drive and decided to have LOTS of CHOCOLATE COVERED GOJI BERRIES, instead.  

Pidgey MIGHT say the play is on his must see list because if he didn't, he would have all these angry women gunnin' for him! Not even Pidgey could handle THAT!


----------



## Feather

Where are you this evening Shi? Are you at the mall? I hope you had a nice big glass of chocolate milk before you left.  

Feather


----------



## mr squeaks

Feather said:


> Where are you this evening Shi? Are you at the mall? I hope you had a nice big glass of chocolate milk before you left.
> 
> Feather


After a "hard" day of helping at my former office's job fair (had those chocolate covered Goji Berries instead of milk), I came home and, after watching a TV show, I was ready for bed by 9:00! I HONESTLY wanted to play catchup on PT, but couldn't stay awake anymore. NOW, have to play catchup and hit the job fair again this afternoon. Busy week for me...

Been keeping an eye open for Peter Pied Piper but only saw some of his kids who are still around their orginal nest area. In fact, there aren't as many pijies around, maybe because of the time of day I'm looking or because there are students everywhere, now that school is in session!

BTW, why hasn't Pidgey mentioned anything about the "M" play? Probably still in shock about the way his thread deteriorated!


----------



## pigeonmama

BTW, why hasn't Pidgey mentioned anything about the "M" play? Probably still in shock about the way his thread deteriorated! [/QUOTE]
No, Pidgey's trying to help me maintain my sanity as I'm having a most difficult week. I e-mail him with my whining and he e-mails me support and info. Pick on him if you must, just remember, he may have a voodoo doll that looks like you, too. 
Daryl


----------



## Feather

Does he have a doll collection? 

Dear Pidgey,

You are one of the nicest, most handsome, and smartest people I know.

Respectfully Feather


----------



## mr squeaks

Feather said:


> Does he have a doll collection?
> 
> Dear Pidgey,
> 
> You are one of the nicest, most handsome, and smartest people I know.
> 
> Respectfully Feather


Feather! For shame! You believe in VOODOO? FROM PIDGEY? Pardon me, but     

Of course, I'm Scorpio Power so he not only doesn't scare me but I can easily counteract anything he might "try"...never, ever let him think you are "afraid."

Hey, great news, PM...glad to hear Pidgey is doing something nice for you! You deserve it - especially from the "south!"

BTW, PM, it's my sworn duty in this current lifetime to "pick" on Pidgey. He's sooooo easy...


----------



## Feather

Has any one heard any thing about our trip to Tulsa?

I hope that lil winnie dog hasn't been stalking Pidgey. I haven't seen him on his favorite thread. WHAT HAPPENED???????????????

Feather


----------



## pigeonmama

*update on fx ankle*

Hi, all,
I know this isn't the thread where so much was written about my son's situation, but I'm too tired and discouraged to hunt for the other thread. Gary had appt today, scheduled for 1045h. He finally got in to exam room at 1130h, and seen by Dr.shortly after. Splint came off, and Dr. concerned with swelling and discomfort just below knee. Another x-ray, and no fx there, thankfully. Surgery scheduled for Wed., at 0900h, unless they cancle again. Dr. says talus has poor healing success rate, like 100% failure to heal, but he did have one person whose talus did heal, and redevelop circulation, but ended up with fusion, still. Dr. Brown says we still have to try to heal the talus, otherwise, Gary will lose inches in length of the leg, and really have problems. Gary will be non-weight bearing for 2 to 3 years, yes, years. I had to leave him at Dr.'s office and return to work, so my mother had to pick him up, transport him home and get him inside. On the way in, he slipped out of wheelchair and ended up putting weight in the fx. ankle. Will keep you updated. 
Daryl
P.S. Gary is sleeping in my bed at night and I'm stuck on "Brokeback Couch" with the dog.


----------



## Pidgey

Judging by the anatomy pictures, the talus is part of the main pivoting point between the leg and the foot. Is the arthrodesis supposed to fuse the leg and foot together so that they really just don't move with respect to each other? I guess I'm surprised that they haven't figured out a metal implant to help this kind of thing out.

Incidentally, for those of the rest of us that don't work in the medical industry, "fx" is an abbreviation for "fracture".

Pidgey


----------



## TerriB

Wow! So sorry to learn that Gary will be non-weight bearing for 2 to 3 years! And then, slipping and putting weight on the broken ankle returning from the doctor's.  Sure hope this is the last of your stretch of problems!


----------



## Feather

Daryl, 

How is this going to affect your jury duty at the end of next month?

Tell Gary that we are thinking of him, and are so sorry that he has to go through this. I can't even imagine the pain he must be in. 

Feather


----------



## pigeonmama

Feather,
Jury duty? Did I miss something? Is Pidgey on trial?
Daryl


----------



## Pidgey

pigeonmama said:


> Is Pidgey on trial?


I'm... what?

Pidgey


----------



## mr squeaks

pigeonmama said:


> Feather,
> Jury duty? Did I miss something? *Is Pidgey on trial?*
> Daryl


Oh, this is just toooooo good to pass up!

If he isn't, PM, he should be! He's usually up to something and, of course, would NEVER tell us any "trial" news! LOL

Space does not permit me to list ALL the things he could be on trial for, but most of us are "aware"....   

*(AND, did y'all notice that he has completely ignored mentioning "Menopause" play tickets?????  )*


----------



## Pidgey

MIZZZ Squawks said:


> *(AND, did y'all notice that he has completely ignored mentioning "Menopause" play tickets?????  )*


Because it's not an issue (no pun intended) seeing as how the play isn't coming (again... ) to Tulsa. I went looking for schedules and the play apparently tends to lose money for the performing art centers that carry it. This illustrates:

http://www.intix.org/news.php?ArticleID=1972

(just read down a bit to the American Cabaret Theatre entry)

Pidgey


----------



## mr squeaks

Pidgey said:


> Because it's not an issue (no pun intended) seeing as how the play isn't coming (again... ) to Tulsa. I went looking for schedules and the play apparently tends to lose money for the performing art centers that carry it. This illustrates:
> 
> http://www.intix.org/news.php?ArticleID=1972
> 
> (just read down a bit to the American Cabaret Theatre entry)
> 
> Pidgey


Well, doggone it, Pidgey - at LEAST you could have told us before this!

All our hopes and dreams are crushed!  The planning...the anticipation...you are cruel as well as baaaad!

I would strongly suggest that you find us another play to see...IF the playhouses don't go bust first!

Shoot! We might even be forced to attend an OPERA...hmmmm, in fact, the more I think about it....  

What say you, ladies???


----------



## Feather

Well if the kids on your block put on the musical, will you let us know while Pigeonmama can still see.

Feather

Stay packed Shi! It's not over till the fat kid sings.


----------



## mr squeaks

Feather said:


> Well if the kids on your block put on the musical, will you let us know while Pigeonmama can still see.
> 
> Feather
> 
> Stay packed Shi! *It's not over till the fat kid sings.*




*OR, Pidgey gets us those tickets!*


Mmmmm, I THINK Opera season may be starting soon, so that would be our best bet, Feather! Of course, AFTER Pigeonmama has her surgery, she will REALLY be able to see better, so a wait may be best.

AND, Pidgey, you don't even have to get us tickets near you and Lin. After all, I would be the one embarrassing Feather and PM by slyly  and  you before I get involved in the program. Wouldn't want to embarrass Lin...


----------



## Pidgey

MIZZZ Squawks said:


> ...I would be the one embarrassing...


You're an embarrassment, alright.

Pidgey


----------



## mr squeaks

Pidgey said:


> You're an embarrassment, alright.
> 
> Pidgey



*SIGH*

   

I WAS only teasing.... 

CANCEL MY PLANE TICKET! I'M STAYING HOME!

that's IT! Gloves are OFF!


----------



## Pidgey

MIZZZ Squawks said:


> that's IT! Gloves are OFF!


Uh, oh!

Pidgey


----------



## mr squeaks

Pidgey said:


> Uh, oh!
> 
> Pidgey



HUMPH!

You don't fool me! I KNOW you are snickering because you got me to cancel my plane ticket! 

IF, I just happen to change my mind, you are really gonna be in trouble! NEVER make a Scorpio angry...now, THAT should give you something to worry about, whether you admit it or not...


----------



## pigeonmama

Just a quick note, Gary had his surgery today, 4 hours long. Dr was successful in getting bone put back together, but now we wait to see if bone survives or dies. Poor kid still in hospital, not sure when he'll be discharged. Will let you all know when and what I find out.
Daryl


----------



## Lin Hansen

Daryl,

So sorry that Gary is having to go through all of this...poor kid! 

Best hopes and wishes for a successful outcome.

Linda


----------



## Pidgey

Here's hopin', Pigeonmama!

Update on DD: the hole is closed and feathers are beginning to grow. She (I'm still not sure what that bird is) still limps but is getting better ever so slowly. She may never stand one-legged on that leg again but it'll be enough if she can walk like a pigeon some day. Here's a picture of that area (at least what you can see):

[img=http://thumb17.webshots.net/t/57/457/5/62/67/2056562670073664377wUbDNY_th.jpg]

Pidgey


----------



## Feather

Pigeonmama,

Wishing Gary a full recovery, and not to much suffering. 

Pidgey, 

Cancel my plane ticket too. I'm going to Arizona to make sure that Shi hasn't started drinking. 

DD sure has healed up nice. She/he can stand on her other leg. I'm sure she is glad to be alive. I don't even see a scar. Speaking of scars, how is you wiener dog bite?


----------



## Pidgey

Feather said:


> Speaking of scars, how is you wiener dog bite?


I can't even find the scar anymore because I used a special medication: chili with mustard, relish and onions.

Pidgey


----------



## pigeonmama

Hi,all,
Well, if any of you have a minute, and don't mind, would you please snail mail my son a quick note or get well card?
His name/address is 
Gary Whiting
826 Lewiston Road
New Gloucester, Me 04260
Thanks,
Daryl


----------



## Skyeking

Daryl,

Of course, I'm send my best healing thoughts and prayers for a complete recovery....I will also send him a good old fashioned card.


Pidgey,

I'm glad DD is doing better, maybe with lots of time she will be as good as new.


----------



## Pidgey

Honestly, Treesa, the way she's gaining weight I'm afraid the good leg might buckle.

Pidgey


----------



## mr squeaks

Pigeonmama...

I will look for just the right card to send to Gary!

My BEST HEALING THOUGHTS AND HUGS to him!     

I'm sure you let him know that we are thinking about him and wait to hear good recovery news!

I will look forward to updates!


----------



## mr squeaks

Pidgey, that is great news about DD...I've been wondering how she is doing.

Uh - OK, WHO is in charge of her food and the amounts??? Diet time? Tell her that fun time is over and she has to cut back and weigh herself now! Hemp and Safflower seeds are a NO-NO until she gets her weight down!

Glad your scar is no longer a problem...memory takes longer... 

Feather - I am fine. Will take more than what Pidgey deals out to get me permanently down. A glass of wine now and then works wonders AND, he will be in for a BIG surprise one of these days..."revenge," in a matter of speaking, is soooo sweet! And I can't think of a more deserving person than Pidgey...

Never been to an opera, so the flight may be back on...


----------



## Feather

Are you planning on punishing him with us?  

O.K. T.R. cancel my canceled flight.

Feather


----------



## mr squeaks

Feather said:


> *Are you planning on punishing him with us?*
> 
> O.K. T.R. cancel my canceled flight.
> 
> Feather


Oh, but of course! *Solo* AND *group*...only the BEST for Mr. Pidgey!


----------



## Feather

Shi, 

Your not planning on putting that biting wiener dog in his yard are you?

Don't forget Unie and Lin live there.

Feather


----------



## Pidgey

Feather said:


> Shi,
> 
> Your not planning on putting that biting wiener dog in his yard are you?
> 
> *Don't forget Unie and Lin live there.*
> 
> Feather


Thanks a lot, Feather! I always knew I could count on you for support when things got rough.

Pidgey


----------



## mr squeaks

Feather said:


> Shi,
> 
> Your not planning on putting that biting wiener dog in his yard are you?
> 
> Don't forget Unie and Lin live there.
> 
> Feather


Oh, good heavens, no! I wouldn't subject that poor dog to Pidgey's yard!

For some reason, every time a weiner dog is mentioned (probably because we can't spell the REAL name), Pidge keeps mentioning something about chile, mustard, etc. Can't have that!

The more I think about the opera, the better I like the idea. I just hope that Gary and PM will be doing well enough so that PM can join us. 

Of course, anyone else who wants to hop a plane with us, feel free! The MORE the merrier. I know Pidgey would be soooooo pleased...


----------



## Feather

Whats the matter didn't I spell weiner right?


----------



## mr squeaks

Feather said:


> Whats the matter didn't I spell weiner right?


Well, I just had my belly laugh for the day, Feather! I must say, you ARE something else! You have a natural talent for "coming out of left field," as the saying goes. Mine is sporatic...yours is a natural gift!

No matter how we spell "dog," I ain't putting one in Pidgey's yard, nor a Grizzley, Coyote, or Wolverine or even a Cougar (my first choice). I respect wildlife too much...

Oh oh, Feather, Pidgey gave you a "fuzzy" compliment (at least for him)...beware of a "nice" (silver tongued) Pidgey... Because of you, he MIGHT be willing to get us those opera tickets, all right, but we could end up practically out the door and unable to see or hear a thing! See what I mean???


----------



## Feather

Wondering how Gary is doing? I haven't heard anything in awhile! Am I on the right thread?

Feather


----------



## pigeonmama

Hi, all,
First off, two big THANK-YOU'S to Shi and Treesa. They made the day so much better for my son. 
Next up, well Gary's doing as well as expected. He's been having terrible muscle spasms in the broken ankle/foot, and a wicked problem with constipation due to narcotics. Well, a little judicious use of the good old MOM, and one problem down the drain (Gawd he'd kill me if he knew I was telling secrets) Gary's on Coumadin (anticoag), so gets out of shaving for now, and is turning in to a hairy old ape. He has an appt with Dr. on Friday, so will update you for sure then.
Daryl


----------



## mr squeaks

pigeonmama said:


> Hi, all,
> First off, two big THANK-YOU'S to Shi and Treesa. They made the day so much better for my son.
> Next up, well Gary's doing as well as expected. He's been having terrible muscle spasms in the broken ankle/foot, and a wicked problem with constipation due to narcotics. Well, a little judicious use of the good old MOM, and one problem down the drain (Gawd he'd kill me if he knew I was telling secrets) Gary's on Coumadin (anticoag), so gets out of shaving for now, and is turning in to a hairy old ape. He has an appt with Dr. on Friday, so will update you for sure then.
> Daryl


Sure hope he will be feeling better! Poor guy! Hey, when his beard grows long enough, there are always scissors! He could even earn a new nickname, "Grizzley Whiting!"  

Hope he doesn't have to stay on the Coumadin that long! 

Give him a BIG HUG from Squeaks and me!!  WARM HEALING THOUGHTS STILL BEING SENT!!


----------



## pigeonmama

Big THANK YOU to Pidgey, Lin and Unie for today's card. Unie even signed it with a pretty blue footprint.
Daryl and Boo


----------



## Pidgey

Just to let you in on a little secret, she actually "talked" to me over that one. It's pretty funny when she does that, about like that time that she ran into and got tangled up in the tomato support cage.

Pidgey


----------



## Skyeking

pigeonmama said:


> Unie even signed it with a pretty blue footprint.
> Daryl and Boo



Pidgey,

What a lovely idea.


----------



## mr squeaks

Pidgey said:


> Just to let you in on a little secret, she actually "talked" to me over that one. It's pretty funny when she does that, about like that time that she ran into and got tangled up in the tomato support cage.
> 
> Pidgey


Oh, I'm SURE she DID talk to you...probably a lot of "blue" language too! ESPECIALLY since BLUE isn't HER color!

Turn about is fair play...I think you should send Gary a BLUE HANDPRINT...  I would have said "footprint" but the postage would be prohibitive!


----------



## Pidgey

Squawks... if I were in a better mood, I'd give you what for. As it is, I'm just here to report that little feathers are budding all over that area and DD will soon have nothing whatsoever but a limp to show for injury. She or he was walking around pretty good last night. Whenever DD stops walking, that one leg is always put forward a bit but, all in all, it's working quite well.

Jag's gotten used to the loft finally. For quite awhile there I'd find him down in the garage, tucked into a dark corner. I'd have to get him out, clean him off and bring him in the house for some moral support. Then, I'd take him back out after a day or so inside and now he's finally grown up and is learning how to swing around and wing-flip with his good wing. He's eating and drinking on his own, too, so that's a load off.

The one with the broken wing is doing pretty well, too, complete with some flying. In her case, it was both the radius and ulna that were broken and there was a terrible bump on that wing near the elbow. It has eased off and we seem to be getting nearly full extension and articulation at this point. I think that one's going to recover nearly all of the function.

Pidgey


----------



## mr squeaks

Yeah, like I'm really scared! You can "what for" all you like...the more the merrier. I need the practice! Besides, I DO hope you feel better soon. "What fors" don't work well when the "What ForER" is not 100%!

Sure glad to hear all are doing well! Hopefully, you get REGULAR WING FUs! Couldn't happen to a "nicer" guy, "Oh Guardian of Broken Pigeons"  

*SIGH* NOW, if you would only learn how to RELAX...DEEP BREATHING HELPS...


----------



## jazaroo

Thanks for the update Pidgey, sounds like things are going real well.

All the best,

Ron


----------



## TerriB

mr squeaks said:


> ...Couldn't happen to a "nicer" guy, "Oh Guardian of Broken Pigeons"


Great title! So now we have The Order of Guardians of Broken Pigeons. It's so much more than rehabber.


----------



## Maggie-NC

Terri, I agree, couldn't be a better title for Pidgey.  Well, all of us, really.


----------



## Feather

Glad to hear that your "ROUGH WEEKEND PATIENTS" have come around. Will these be keepers? I like your new title Pidgey! Shi, that is a good name for our rescuers. They are pigeon guardians!

Feather


----------



## Lin Hansen

TerriB said:


> Great title! So now we have The Order of Guardians of Broken Pigeons. It's so much more than rehabber.





LadyTarheel said:


> Terri, I agree, couldn't be a better title for Pidgey. Well, all of us, really.


Yes, I like that too.

Maybe Pidgey can be The Grand High Exhalted Mystic Poobah of The Order of Guardians of Broken Pigeons...... 

Linda


----------



## Pidgey

I'm afraid I have to poo-poo the Poobah poop or 23-Skiddoo the whole scene. You see, I can't wear the hat because my brain needs the cooling.

Pidgey


----------



## mr squeaks

Pidgey said:


> I'm afraid I have to poo-poo the Poobah poop or 23-Skiddoo the whole scene. You see, I can't wear the hat because my brain needs the cooling.
> 
> Pidgey


Well, POOP POOP PEE DOO, SCOOBEE DOO (DOO)!

You got that right! Beware of Pidgey accolades...they go to your head...

NOW, feel better, Mr. Pidgey??? Mmmmm??? 

Guess not - your face is turning red...repeat after me: 

OOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMM... You WILL be able to replenish pijie water dishes without spilling....you WILL be able to replenish seed dishes without your hand shaking to spill seeds everywhere!   

CALM, STEADY AND EASY DOES IT...  GOOOOOD BOY!


----------



## TerriB

Pidgey said:


> I'm afraid I have to poo-poo the Poobah poop or 23-Skiddoo the whole scene. You see, I can't wear the hat because my brain needs the cooling.
> 
> Pidgey


Not a problem. The crown is open on top.  It is helpful as a way for other members of the order to recognize each other while out in the world. Or we could come up with a secret hand shake?


----------



## Feather

You are so witty Terri! Yes, an open top would be wonderful for cool downs.

Pidgey...you are just going to have to grin and WEAR it.

Feather


----------



## mr squeaks

Feather said:


> You are so witty Terri! Yes, an open top would be wonderful for cool downs.
> 
> *Pidgey...you are just going to have to grin and WEAR it.*
> 
> Feather


VERY good, Feather! How clever of you... Not a "crown" however - that's _really_ going too far...for Pidgey...  

I think a secret handshake would be a little over the top for the Pidgey...


----------



## pigeonmama

Shi,
Yesterday's card was priceless. Loved that hounddog !! Boo said it wasn't fair that the dog got to drive and he can't . Half cast off yesterday, and x-ray done. Still nothing to report. Dr. says this will be long time healing, if it heals at all. Gary now sports a violently green colored non-weight bearing cast, and goes back in a month, if I don't throttle him before that. He's a very demanding patient !!!
Daryl


----------



## mr squeaks

pigeonmama said:


> Shi,
> Yesterday's card was priceless. Loved that hounddog !! Boo said it wasn't fair that the dog got to drive and he can't . Half cast off yesterday, and x-ray done. Still nothing to report. Dr. says this will be long time healing, if it heals at all. Gary now sports a violently green colored non-weight bearing cast, and goes back in a month, if I don't throttle him before that. He's a very demanding patient !!!
> Daryl


You and Gary are welcome! Just can't resist some cards! The card showed a hound dog leaning his leg over the rolled down window of a pickup truck. Inside was the caption saying something to the effect of: "Thought you might need a lift!"

Well, I guess an active teen can be pretty demanding! Rough not to be able to move around the way you want!

I sure hope all heals well. Is Gary taking any type of supplements (herbs?) that promote healing? 

We can just treat him like a GIANT pigeon who needs healing help!    

HUGS TO ALL!


----------



## Pidgey

You know, if it was simply a matter of blood supply and distribution to the bone, you'd have thought that they'd come up with a local pump that could be mounted externally that could be installed to pump blood from the inside of that bone out and injected somewhere else back into the body. That's essentially what they do when they use leeches at the tip end of an extremity that's been cut off and surgically re-attached to help re-establish blood flow.

Maybe what we need to do with The Boo (Gary) is mail him to Alice in Arizona since she's had experience with this kind of thing. Do ya' think we could get the same rate for mailing him that we get with mailing pigeons? Of course, if they go by weight...

Pidgey


----------



## pigeonmama

I've offered Reiki, I'm second level, and work with reiki master, but Boo says NO WAY !!! As to shipping him, that would have to be one big shipping crate, figuring he's 6 ft + and 300 lbs, and an eating machine. Gotta have plenty of chow in there too, no cut up fruit for him.
Daryl


----------



## mr squeaks

pigeonmama said:


> I've offered Reiki, I'm second level, and work with reiki master, but Boo says NO WAY !!! As to shipping him, that would have to be one big shipping crate, figuring he's 6 ft + and 300 lbs, and an eating machine. Gotta have plenty of chow in there too, no cut up fruit for him.
> Daryl



Mmmm, well as much as teens sometimes pooh-pooh "alternative" type healing help methods, you might mention that if he wants to get up and about more sooner than later, he should listen to "Mama!"

Pidgey would know about how much it would cost to ship Gary!


----------



## pigeonmama

*Oh, good Lord, what else can happen*

Got home to a whiny kid last night, sore throat> I told him it was from all the whining. Looked at throat, no red patches. Woke up to crying kid at 3 a.m., not the ankle, two hugely inflamed lymph nodes behind ear and back of neck. Pedi thinks Mono. I'm sending kid to Pidgey, so he will survive/thrive. I seem to be killing him off, piece by piece.
Daryl


----------



## mr squeaks

Oh NO! I'm so sorry, Daryl!

Don't have the meds for him - just A HUGE WARM HEALING COMFORTING HUG TO WRAP AROUND HIM!

Don't know if Gary would like going to see Pidge...he experiments, y'know...If he thought your Reiki was bad news...welllll...The GOOD news is that most of Pidgey's experiments work...it's finding the right one that is the problem!


----------



## Skyeking

Daryl,

I'm so sorry to hear your son is feeling sick.

I usually get my son on the Infectostat, and time release vitamin C, and Formula I (zinc, vitamin A, C and more), when he comes down with something. The Infectostat usually works pretty quick if you can get it before it becomes full blown. It has Olive leaf extract, corianader leaf, Noni, kelp, Reishi, & coriolus. It is encompassed in a nice quickly desolved vegetable cap, not plastic. I have used this to get him thru some heavy duty infections.

Heavy doses will do the trick. If you would like me to send you some, let me know.

Also, a good protein, greens, amino acids, nutritional flakes drink will help boost his energy and help with the healing & recovery.


----------



## pigeonmama

Treesa,
Thanks a bunch. I'll check with healthfood store here, and if I can't find it, I'll let you know. 
Daryl


----------



## Pidgey

Did he get mono from kissing nurses?

Pidgey


----------



## pigeonmama

I hope not !!!!
 
Daryl


----------



## Pidgey

You'll never get the truth out of him, you know. You might as well just presume he's guilty and get to the punishment right now.

Pidgey


----------



## mr squeaks

Pidgey said:


> You'll never get the truth out of him, you know. You might as well just presume he's guilty and get to the punishment right now.
> 
> Pidgey


Just out of curiosity, Pidgey...what is your idea of punishment??


----------



## TerriB

So sorry that mono took advantage of your son's stressed immune system.  Sure hope things start to quickly improving for both of you!


----------



## Pidgey

mr squeaks said:


> Just out of curiosity, Pidgey...what is your idea of punishment??


Take away the safflower seeds.

Pidgey


----------



## Pidgey

TerriB said:


> So sorry that mono took advantage of your son's stressed immune system.  Sure hope things start to quickly improving for both of you!


I don't actually think they know that it's mono for sure.

Pidgey


----------



## pigeonmama

*What a difference a day makes*

Well, Gary's had a much better day, today. He feels so much better today, and even took a ride down to visit his sister on his father's riding lawnmower. Then we took a run in town, to buy him a model to work on and give me a chance to buy some yarn. Gotta knit something to cover his little piggies, and found some camo colored yarn. After running all over town and wearing each other out, he's on the couch, and looking like it's nap time.
Daryl


----------



## Pidgey

If I were him, I'd milk it on the sympathy for absolutely ALL it's worth. I'd be callin' up the girls in school to tell them how rough it is and to tell them when mom and dad were off to work and how long y'all would be away so that they'd understand when the best time to administer medical attention... uhh... I MEAN: when he was the loneliest... uhh... when to deliver candy...

...well, crap!

You get the idea.

Pidgey


----------



## pigeonmama

Pidgey,
Now, you wouldn't be trying to corrupt my innocent little boy, would you?? Boy, his busy, long day has caught up with him. He's hurting right now. I don't think even candy (or cute girls) would help.
Daryl


----------



## Pidgey

Oh, I'm absolutely positive that Candy, the cute girl, could distract him from the pain a little bit.

Pidgey


----------



## Pidgey

Oops! I wasn't supposed to mention Candy! I meant "Halloween candy"!

Pidgey


----------



## pigeonmama

Oh, Pidgey,
I'm speechless!! 
Daryl


----------



## Pidgey

pigeonmama said:


> Oh, Pidgey,
> I'm speechless!!
> Daryl


MARK YOUR CALENDARS, FOLKS, 'CAUSE THIS WILL BECOME A NATIONAL HOLIDAY!!!
Now, if we can only get MIZZZ Squawks to do this...

Pidgey the Proud


----------



## PIGEONFAIRY

Pidgey said:


> Now, if we can only get MIZZZ Squawks to do this...
> 
> Pidgey the Proud




*** POOF ***

YOUR WISH HAS BEEN GRANTED, OH GUARDIAN OF BROKEN PIGEONS...


*(WARNING: Be VERY careful what you wish for!)*


----------



## Pidgey

Do you, Oh Great Pigeonfairy, have legs like Tinkerbell (played by Julia Roberts) in the movie "Hook"?

Enquiring Pidgeys Wanna' Know!


----------



## PIGEONFAIRY

Pidgey said:


> Do you, Oh Great Pigeonfairy, have legs like Tinkerbell (played by Julia Roberts) in the movie "Hook"?
> 
> Enquiring Pidgeys Wanna' Know!



Actually, I WAS called "Tinkerbell" many years ago as a "Fairy in Training."

However, I have no legs per se...I am a "spirit" and not visible to human eyes. There are those who say they have felt my presence as a light pigeon wing "touch."

Pigeons, of course, can always "see" me.


----------



## Pidgey

This means no. Dang.

Pidgey de Pressed


----------



## Feather

My pigeons told me that she has legs like Tony Braxton, Tina Turner and Jessica Simpson. No not Lisa Simpson......Jessica!


----------



## TerriB

PIGEONFAIRY said:


> ...There are those who say they have felt my presence as a light pigeon wing "touch."
> 
> Pigeons, of course, can always "see" me.



Does a wing wack count?


----------



## PIGEONFAIRY

Pidgey said:


> This means no. Dang.
> 
> Pidgey de Pressed


Your initial request has been granted, Guardian of Broken Pigeons. Are you not pleased? 

*(Remember the warning)*


----------



## PIGEONFAIRY

Feather said:


> My pigeons told me that she has legs like Tony Braxton, Tina Turner and Jessica Simpson. No not Lisa Simpson......Jessica!


Ahhh, Ms. Feather. Your pigeons do, indeed, have a wonderful sense of humor, just like their beautiful Guardian.


----------



## PIGEONFAIRY

TerriB said:


> Does a wing wack count?


Oh my no, Ms. TerriB. I am felt more like a light caress. Pijie kisses, if you will. Very gentle ones. Sometimes the light stroke of a pigeon's wing as they fly by.

I am also the "awe" you feel deep inside when you watch many pigeons fly and turn in perfect harmony.


----------



## Feather

PIGEONFAIRY,

DO YOU HAVE ANY FAIRY FRIENDS, SUCH AS FAIRY GODMOTHERS, FAIRY PRINCESES OR FAIRY PRINCES?


Feather


----------



## Pidgey

I'll bet she does poker-night with the toothfairy.

Pidgey


----------



## PIGEONFAIRY

Feather said:


> PIGEONFAIRY,
> 
> DO YOU HAVE ANY FAIRY FRIENDS, SUCH AS FAIRY GODMOTHERS, FAIRY PRINCESES OR FAIRY PRINCES?
> 
> 
> Feather


Oh my yes, Ms. Feather! There are MANY of us. Actually, my full title is PIGEONFAIRY GODMOTHER for Guardian of Broken Pigeons (known to you as "Pidgey")

My friends and I are in a special Fairy section involving PIGEONS and their GUARDIANS. All Guardians have their own PigeonFairy Godmothers (there ARE some Godfathers, but not as many). I have been watching over your Pidgey for quite some time. He needs all the help he can get. His duties pull him in many directions and he doesn't always take time to slow down and watch the pigeons circling in flight (your human version of "stopping to smell the roses").

I was assigned to him because of my seniority, knowledge, and expertise as the best in my field. We felt he deserved the very best of our kind.

I hope I answered your question. You are a very kind, gentle Guardian and have a most wonderful Pigeonfairy of your very own.


----------



## PIGEONFAIRY

Pidgey said:


> I'll bet she does poker-night with the toothfairy.
> 
> Pidgey


Such a sense of humor you have, Guardian of Broken Pigeons! I DO know the toothfairy...a wonderful spirit!

However, we have no need for money in the spirit realm and therefore do not gamble (at least as you humans think of "gambling").


----------



## Feather

Tooth Fairy,

What do you do with all of that extra change after a long night of gathering those little teeth?

I always knew my pigeons had angels, but I never thought I had a Pigeon Fairy of my very own.

I better keep a sharper sense, least some of my neighbors catch my fairy in a bottle. Dos XX is very popular in these parts.

Feather


----------



## PIGEONFAIRY

Feather said:


> Tooth Fairy,
> 
> What do you do with all of that extra change after a long night of gathering those little teeth?
> 
> I always knew my pigeons had angels, *but I never thought I had a Pigeon Fairy of my very own.
> 
> I better keep a sharper sense, least some of my neighbors catch my fairy in a bottle. Dos XX is very popular in these parts.*
> 
> Feather


Oh yes, Ms. Feather, you certainly do! I was told you have a PIGEONFAIRY GOD*FATHER*...rare and very special! 

Do not worry about your neighbors catching your PIGEONFAIRY GODFATHER. Word has it that he was QUITE familiar with Dox XX before he became a Fairy in Training. He knows how to avoid all kinds of traps and has a wonderful sense of humor too.

Always remember - what your neighbors can't see, they can't catch.


----------



## Maggie-NC

Well, personally, I think our new member, Pigeonfairy, would make a great addition to our Super Powered Pigeons to watch over them while they are battling Nastypuss and stupid humans. 

BTW, a warm welcome to you, Pigeonfairy.


----------



## PIGEONFAIRY

Lady Tarheel said:


> Well, personally, I think our new member, Pigeonfairy, would make a great addition to our Super Powered Pigeons to watch over them while they are battling Nastypuss and stupid humans.
> 
> BTW, a warm welcome to you, Pigeonfairy.


Thank you, my Lady! You are indeed a kind gentle person, along with your wonderful husband!

We PIGEONFAIRIES have been watching. You both have very unique PIGEONFAIRY GODMOTHERS. They are very wise and have been around for quite a long time. Both were my former teachers. 

They always wish you well and send their love. They said that the next time you are outside watching the pigeons fly, listen closely and you will feel them.

As for the Super Power Pigeons, ALL of the PIGEONFAIRIES have a hand in watching over them. Have no fear.

While we are PIGEONFAIRIES, Dorian von Nastypuss, Tiddles and all felines, have their own PUSSYFAIRIES. Some are led astray but CAN find their way - in time. LOVE ALWAYS RULES.

The ToothFairy recycles all the teeth he collects. Most are are used for implants, adult teeth coming in and wisdom teeth. Others are used in the animal kingdom.


----------



## pigeonmama

Well, a quick update. First off, my computer is kaput for sure, just waiting for "computer guy" to fix the blasted thing. Computer guy does as he wants, speed-wise.
Boo got a new cast last week, as other one got too loose, after swelling went down. We still don't know about healing at this time.
Thanks to Lin H and Shi for the cards.
Denise, you are an inspiration to all of us. You loved Sqidget so much, you fought valiantly to keep him going as long and as well as you did, and you loved Squidget enough to know when it was time to stop fighting and give him release. Today was the first time I've had a chance to get on computer in ages, and I am so glad I didn't see about Squidgie crossing over the bridge until today. We will all miss him and hearing about him. I know I will never forget him, and will always love him.
Well gotta say, I really miss you guys, and miss being able to read messages here. Will be glad when all squared away here, computer and eye wise. First cataract surgery next Wednesday.
Love to all,
Daryl and Boo


----------



## mr squeaks

Hi Pigeonmama! Many thanks for the update! I know how frustrating not being able to "computer" can be! Sure hope you get your computer fixed OR, have you considered just buying a NEW one???  

I have your surgery dates marked on my calendar and I KNOW all will go well. Do not worry. We will all be anxiously waiting for you to tell us how much CLEARER/BETTER you will be able to see the screen after your surgeries! The better to do your wonderful replies to Pidgey, who, I'm sure, misses the repartee, when he's not up to his eyebrows helping pijies - his and others!

Yes, we were all saddened by the passing of Squidget but know that Denise made the right choice. He will always be with her and all of his fans here on the site.

HELLO to GARY and tell him to behave himself so he can HEAL rapidly and be up and about, running around, giving you fits!  

HUGS and LOVE TO ALL..

P.S. How is Mr. Ping doing???


----------



## pigeonmama

Shi,
Ping is fine. He is so in love with Mojo Pigeon.
Daryl


----------



## mr squeaks

So, it won't be long until you are doing the "magic" act sleight of hand: replace real egg with dummy?

Are they in the house or the loft? To refresh my memory (an on-going thing!), what colors are Ping and Mojo Pigeon? Where did Mojo come from?


----------



## pigeonmama

First off, a big thank you to Feather. We got 3 cards from her yesterday. Unbelievably beautiful handwriting that lady has, and I'm guessing she's also a very talented artist.
Shi, (I blush) Ping and Mojo are kissing cousins. Ping is Pinky and Belle's child. Remember Pinky, the rescue from Mass. that had been found wandering on a beach. White bird dyed pink. Belle is Cappuchine/ Thailand Laugher cross. Ping is white like his daddy, and has a ruff. Mojo is by Beau (Belle's brother) and I can't remember mama's name. Mojo looks like a Mookie without a crest. She's so beautiful, sheen and color of a grackle(purple/green in the sun) So far they haven't been too serious about setting up house, and I hope it stays that way.
Daryl


----------



## Feather

Daryl and Gary, 

I am thrilled that you finally received your cards. How is Gary doing with his new cast? They are so unconfortable. How long and how often does his tooter work with him? 

Daryl, Isn't your eye surgery on the 23rd or the 26th.

Thank you for the handwriting compliment!

Feather


----------



## mr squeaks

Feather said:


> Daryl and Gary,
> 
> I am thrilled that you finally received your cards. How is Gary doing with his new cast? They are so unconfortable. How long and how often does his tooter work with him?
> 
> *Daryl, Isn't your eye surgery on the 23rd or the 2*6th.
> 
> Thank you for the handwriting compliment!
> 
> Feather


Feather, unless I made a mistake, I have Daryl's first surgery on Wednesday, *Oct 25 *and the second on Wednesday, *Nov 8.*


----------



## Feather

Thanks Shi,

I knew it was around my Husband's and my Sister's birthday! Speaking of Scorpio's in my life, when is your birthday Shi?


----------



## Pidgey

If'n y'all don't mind, I'll step in here and give a pigeon update: we went diving to Bonaire for a week (both survived everything but the plane ride back) and when we got back, YoYo had taken a turn for the worse. YoYo's much better now but had apparently gotten sick and then dehydrated. YoYo is the one that has the frequent epileptic spinning seizures. Well, his symptoms when we got back approximated PMV, complete with full-blown stargazing but I put him on thin Kaytee and Baytril (shot in the dark), offset to help keep the drug from being affected by the calcium in the Kaytee.

He's much better now and then some. He still has a few seizures but he no longer spins--just rotates his head and neck. I certainly never would have thought to try a near-death experience as a therapy but it seems to have had a positive effect. We'll just have to see if this lasts, but I hope it does.

Otherwise, everyone else is doing just fine although I got one in from a local vet that can't seem to fly well. That bird tested positive (had to do it myself) for roundworms and threadworms. This bird is also extremely nervous or jumpy and I'm not certain that its eyes are working properly (or brain, hard to tell). I can't find any reason why it can't fly but when it does, it seems to get lost in midair and then just goes straight down. In other words, it can fly just fine--it just can't navigate anywhere to make a decent landing. Also, you can sneak up on it making all the noise you can make but if it's not looking at you, it doesn't know you're there.

Pidgey


----------



## mr squeaks

Feather said:


> Thanks Shi,
> 
> I knew it was around my Husband's and my Sister's birthday! Speaking of Scorpio's in my life, when is your birthday Shi?


Oh my, Feather, you are TRULY blessed to have those Scorpios in your life!  

Comin' up, Feather, comin' up! Andi's son, Taylor, also has the same BD as I do! YIPPEE.  

You should be able to see Mr. Squeaks in the BD queue in the not too distant future! 

Since I absolutely LOVE my BDs, I'll no doubt be celebrating the whole MONTH of November!


----------



## mr squeaks

Pidgey said:


> If'n y'all don't mind, I'll step in here and give a pigeon update: we went diving to Bonaire for a week (both survived everything but the plane ride back) and when we got back, YoYo had taken a turn for the worse. YoYo's much better now but had apparently gotten sick and then dehydrated. YoYo is the one that has the frequent epileptic spinning seizures. Well, his symptoms when we got back approximated PMV, complete with full-blown stargazing but I put him on thin Kaytee and Baytril (shot in the dark), offset to help keep the drug from being affected by the calcium in the Kaytee.
> 
> He's much better now and then some. He still has a few seizures but he no longer spins--just rotates his head and neck. I certainly never would have thought to try a near-death experience as a therapy but it seems to have had a positive effect. We'll just have to see if this lasts, but I hope it does.
> 
> Otherwise, everyone else is doing just fine although I got one in from a local vet that can't seem to fly well. That bird tested positive (had to do it myself) for roundworms and threadworms. This bird is also extremely nervous or jumpy and I'm not certain that its eyes are working properly (or brain, hard to tell). I can't find any reason why it can't fly but when it does, it seems to get lost in midair and then just goes straight down. In other words, it can fly just fine--it just can't navigate anywhere to make a decent landing. Also, you can sneak up on it making all the noise you can make but if it's not looking at you, it doesn't know you're there.
> 
> Pidgey


Well, of COURSE, we don't mind, Pidgey! After all you DID start this thread. However, things tend to wander when you don't keep us on track.

MANY THANKS for the update, Pidgey! I can't believe that YoYo has been on my mind lately...guess I know WHY now! So glad to hear he's doing better!! Doesn't he stay in the house with Unie? (that was another question I had)

I'm not surprised you had a great SCUBA time in Bonaire...supposed to be one of the best places in the world for undersea "exploring."

So, are you going to tell us what happened on the way BACK?? NMBers want to know.   

SENDING WARM HUGS for YoYo and all other pijies!


----------



## Maggie-NC

Pidgey, thanks for the update on YoYo. Glad to hear he is better. You know, I think I have mentioned that a vet we saw when we had a run of PMV's one year had recommended Baytril and l/4 metronidazole tablet for neuro problems.

Glad you didn't drown, or anything.  



Feather, Shi's birthday is November 5.


----------



## mr squeaks

Lady Tarheel said:


> Pidgey, thanks for the update on YoYo. Glad to hear he is better. You know, I think I have mentioned that a vet we saw when we had a run of PMV's one year had recommended Baytril and l/4 metronidazole tablet for neuro problems.
> 
> *Glad you didn't drown, or anything.  *
> 
> Or get too close to a Stingray! Bet he got waterlogged and is still shaking water out of his ears! And he wonders why Lin is YELLING her conversation!
> 
> 
> Feather, Shi's birthday is November 5.



Oh, Maggie, HOW COULD YOU! I was hoping to surprise her...*SIGH* 

OK, that's it...since TODAY is the OFFICIAL start of Scorpio...I'm gonna start celebrating NOW since my "secret" is out! YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHAWWWWWWWWWWWWW and a tip of the wine glass to y'all!!! YIPPPPEEE


----------



## Pidgey

mr squeaks said:


> OK, that's it...since TODAY is the OFFICIAL start of Scorpio...I'm gonna start celebrating NOW since my "secret" is out! YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHAWWWWWWWWWWWWW and a tip of the wine glass to y'all!!! YIPPPPEEE


Well, Scorpio is actually a "water sign" but I see that somehow the "water" has been changed to "wine". I don't think we need look far to figure out how that happened...

<hiccup!>

Pihd-jhee


----------



## mr squeaks

Pidgey said:


> Well, Scorpio is actually a "water sign" but I see that somehow the "water" has been changed to "wine". I don't think we need look far to figure out how that happened...
> 
> <hiccup!>
> 
> Pihd-jhee



Well...hewwwoo, Pidgey. Didn't Jesus do sometin' w/water to wine or wasit wine to watrrr?? mmmmmmmmmmmm doesn't winee hav water INNN it??  heeyyy, itssssssssss liquid, ok? hic

boy, am I gonnna ahv fun THHHHHISS BE - er - BD !!

tanks, mags..


----------



## Maggie-NC

Sorry Shi, didn't mean to spill the beans.


----------



## Feather

Shi....I'm surprized!  


THE PIGEON FAIRY DID IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
T.R. When you go diving in all that wine, it is only natural that the plane ride home will be a little difficult, for you as well as the rest of the passengers.
How were the poor fish?
Sorry, about turning your thread into the Gossip hang-out.

Maggie, Did you say that Baytril and Metronidazole was recommended?
I thought that PMV had to run it's coarse. Does it help the condition once the PMV has gone?

Luv Yall
Feather


----------



## Pidgey

Feather said:


> *(1)*Sorry, about turning your thread into the Gossip hang-out.
> 
> *(2)*Maggie, Did you say that Baytril and Metronidazole was recommended?
> I thought that PMV had to run it's coarse. Does it help the condition once the PMV has gone?


(1) Yeah, right.

(2) YoYo neither doesn't nor didn't have PMV. In all likelihood, the Baytril hasn't had anything whatsoever to do with the lessening of the neural symptoms. It is far more likely that the close brush with dying did. The reason that I say that is because sometimes epileptic episodes are maintained by the same mechanism that instills an unbreakable habit. That is to say that there may be no organic reason to keep having them other than that the brain can get into a rut. If the cycle can be broken, it may stop the events. This isn't always the case but it is highly likely here. It is still quite possible that the original symptoms will return but I'll be more than just a little pleased if they don't.

What Maggie was referring to was a time when she and her vet got a spate of birds with PMV-like symptoms in which her vet did some research and possibly saved some after instituting that therapy regimen. If memory serves, there was no definite test done to prove beyond doubt that the causative agent was a paramyxovirus--it could have been a virulent, neurological presentation of Paratyphoid for all we know.

Cynthia condensed the findings from a researcher in the UK into the sticky thread on PMV and there is one conclusion that states that PMV lesions (in the brain) may be aggravated (exacerbated, something like that) by antibiotic therapy. As such, it is the suggestion of that researcher that antibiotics not be used during PMV. The Catch-22 there is that there are bacterial and amoebic illnesses which may affect the motor control of a bird in much the same way so it's not always a foregone conclusion (especially with the difficulties of an untrained observer describing symptoms to the forum) that a bird has PMV. In my area, for instance, the local strain of PMV is said to only affect the kidneys and they don't usually experience the torticollis (neck twisting; stargazing) that other areas see. So when I see that kind of thing, it's more likely that I'm seeing some other ailment and should, therefore, consider an antibiotic treatment. When Cynthia's seeing it, it's more than likely real PMV. For everyone else, it's a case-by-case call.

Pidgey


----------



## Maggie-NC

This is a great thread - it has covered everything imaginable - thanks to our Pidgey letting us NMB's in from time to time.  

Feather, Pidgey explained the Baytril and Metronidazole combo perfectly. He can take my long and drawn out explanations and make sense of them so even I can understand them.


----------



## mr squeaks

Lady Tarheel said:


> This is a great thread - it has covered everything imaginable - *thanks to our Pidgey letting us NMB's in from time to time.*
> 
> 
> *Yeah, as if he had any choice in the matter! THAT'S WHY we are the NMBers*!
> 
> Feather, Pidgey explained the Baytril and Metronidazole combo perfectly. He can take my long and drawn out explanations and make sense of them so even I can understand them.



Re letting the "cat out of the bag," not to worry. Actually, I had MORE fun because you DID! Thanks! 

P.S. While PIGEONFAIRY granted Pidgey's wish about Mizzz Squawks...she didn't do anything about "Scorpio Power." No way is Pidgey gettin' off the hook THAT easy!


----------



## Pidgey

mr squeaks said:


> P.S. While PIGEONFAIRY granted Pidgey's wish about Mizzz Squawks...she didn't do anything about "Scorpio Power." No way is Pidgey gettin' off the hook THAT easy!


Sounds to me like "Scorpio Power" has more to do with tipping a glass (not filled with water) than anything else.

Pidgey the Perceptive


----------



## mr squeaks

Pidgey said:


> Sounds to me like "Scorpio Power" has more to do with tipping a glass (not filled with water) than anything else.
> 
> Pidgey the Perceptive


At *times*, ooohh so true...fun is where one finds it...and many of us Scorpios DO push the envelope. How else do we know so MANY things that can't always be explained?

Mmmmm, I seem to remember a couple of postings by yourself (and just recently too) that seemed to be influenced by some "hair of the dog." (I _refuse_ to say what kind of dog!)


----------



## Pidgey

mr squeaks said:


> Mmmmm, I seem to remember a couple of postings by yourself (and just recently too) that seemed to be influenced by some "hair of the dog." (I _refuse_ to say what kind of dog!)


Uhh... about that... I haven't needed shaving cream lately as I seem to be foaming....

ARRRRRGGGHHH!!!! GROWWLLL!!! SNARRRLLL!!! <SNAP!>

Pidgeus Rabidicus


----------



## mr squeaks

Oh, my WORD!! ROFLMAO...

A RABID Pidgey????  Shades of Tim Allen and the "Shaggy Dog!"

Foaming? Rabid? I can't take this! CAN'T STOP LAUGHING!  

We all know that Pidgey is a little....but, RABID??? OH MY! I WANNA SEE A PICTURE!!!  

Bet you are drinking a LOT of liquid now, Pidgey - and you don't care that it might NOT be water!

A DRUNK RABID Pidgey???? Quick, someone call 911, I simply can't take this picture! Does laughter cause heart attacks????  

Sorry, gotta stopppppppppp typinggggggg- can't see screen...fingers shaking too much from laughter......


----------



## Feather

Thank you for the explanation Pidgey, it was very clear.


PIGEONMAMA....IN CASE YOU GO IN EARLY TOMORROW. I WANT YOU TO KNOW THAT EVERYONE HERE ON THE GOSSIP THREAD WISHES YOU ALL BLUNT INSTRUMENTS, AND A SPEEDY RECOVERY.

YOU ARE A WOMAN WITH VISION!

Feather


----------



## pigeonmama

Going in at 1140 h. 
Daryl


----------



## Lin Hansen

Daryl,

Good luck tomorrow. I know it will all go fine. 

Anyone I've ever known who had it done said it wasn't so bad, and you will be able to see so much better! 

We'll all be pulling for you.

Linda


----------



## Maggie-NC

Daryl, it's a piece of cake! You'll see so much better and colors will be so beautiful again.

I'll be thinking of you.


----------



## mr squeaks

YEP! MARKED ON MY CALENDAR, DARYL!

TRUST ME! ALL WILL GO WELL!! STOP WORRYING! SCORPIOS KNOW ABOUT THESE THINGS...

OF COURSE, WE *KNOW* THAT WHEN YOU COME BACK TO THE SITE TO TELL US THE GOOD NEWS, YOU WILL BE ABLE TO "SEE" MUCH BETTER! WE WON'T HAVE TO TYPE IN 'CAPS' ANYMORE !!   

SENDING WARM COMFORTING HUGS TO HELP RELAX YOU...


----------



## pigeonmama

Yes, but what sucks (oops, is that lauguage too strong? Am I going to get my hand slapped? Well, at least I'll see it coming), is that I'll have good vision in one eye and lousy vision in the other. Do I wear my glasses and use the unoperated on eye or go without glasses and use the bionic eye? 
Daryl


----------



## Pidgey

Are you inferring that your doctor's advice on that matter will be suspect and this is the only place you trust?

Pidgey


----------



## Maggie-NC

Daryl, seems to me your visual acuity would be the same as it was before the cataracts ripened so if you wore glasses for reading or driving you would need to continue to use them. I imagine you will get a new eyeglass prescription after the other eye is operated on.

When I had my one eye done, I still used the same eyeglass prescription that I had used before the operation.


----------



## TAWhatley

Well, Daryl and all .. I had a lens implant in my right eye some years ago and there was a developing cataract in my left eye. Once I got my "bionic" lens in the right eye, it was really dicey about adjusting to one eye with 20/20 or better and the other still at 20/200 and having a developing cataract in that left eye. I did have a new prescription for glasses after the first implant and did figure out how to manage. I was very thankful when the cataract in my left eye got to the point that I could have it fixed also. It was astonishing to me, at age 57, to finally have two eyes that were both 20/20 or better .. I had been nearsighted for all my life and suddenly was farsighted .. that took some more adjusting, but I am very happy and very grateful to now have two totally well functioning eyes. You will be likewise!

Terry


----------



## TerriB

Interesting, Terry, so something to look forward to! 

Hope things go smoothly tomorrow, Daryl!


----------



## pigeonmama

A big thanks to Shi and Mr. Squeaks for the cards Gary and I received yesterday. We especially loved the "country bumpkin" frog.
Daryl


----------



## Feather

Daryl,

Well...one down...one to go. Glad to see that you are seeing and feeling well enough to post on the forum.

Feather


----------



## mr squeaks

So how did the surgery go, Daryl? BETTER than you expected, I certainly hope!

Squeaks and I were thinking about you today and wondering!

Only one more to go!


----------



## Pidgey

Well, just for a moment, I'd like to "Off Topic" this thread back to pigeons. I've currently got one that a vet called me about on the day that we were traveling down to Bonaire (Oct 11th). They'd had it for a couple of days (a client had brought it in) and they said at the time that it was found in the client's yard unable to fly over a foot or two high. I picked it up after we got home and did some lab: roundworms, Capillaria (threadworms) and Coccidial oocysts, but not in numbers that would signal a real problem. Actually the bird seemed more nervous (downright anti-social) than anything and given to explosive overcontrol of the flight muscles. I think she could easily fly if she could calm down but any attempts at flight she's made are way too energetic to work out right. That is, she crashes regularly. 

I think she's slowly getting better and I've had her on Baytril because she was also a bit Gram-negative in the stool. So, her health is pretty good and her poops have always looked good (she's a full adult, by the way) but she's just got this neural thing. She used to be the most viscious wing-whacker that I've ever seen (makes Jackie Chan look like an electric pram) but she's given that up for Lent (gotten used to me, I guess). 

It turns out that she comes from one of the two areas near me that there have been suspected bird poisonings so I'm wondering if she was poisoned at one time. Whatever poison she might have gotten would long-since have been eliminated but I don't know if there are long term effects from them. The only other thing that would make sense would be some of the symptoms of PMV although there certainly hasn't been any of the classic watery droppings or torticollis-type (stargazing; twisting of the neck) symptoms--just a general presentation of some of the regular after-effects of PMV.

Anyhow, she made a flight off my hand this morning and managed to NOT crash although it was a real close call. She did NOT manage to go where she was aiming for, however. Anyway, I'm not certain if Atropine (the active ingredient from Belladonna) would be of any help or not at this point. Has anyone had any experience with long-term effects resulting from known poisons?

Pidgey


----------



## jazaroo

Hi Pidgey,

One thought that came to mind was heavy metal poisoning, either by zinc or lead, I believe can cause some lasting neurological symptoms. Is there a possibility this bird could have ingested metal bits as gravel? 

Ron


----------



## Pidgey

The possibilities are endless. The only way to prove zinc is with a radiograph and/or a blood test. Usually, if they've got zinc poisoning, they get the PD/PU complex (Polydipsia/Polyuria: excessive drinking and urination), I think, trying to wash the metal out of the body. You can read about it on that disc.

Pidgey


----------



## Pidgey

Actually, I'd say that it more resembles a sub-lethal dose of Avitrol (4-Aminopyridine) than anything else although that drug is eliminated by the system in a fairly timely fashion. I haven't found anything documenting long term effects to survivors yet (and don't remember what I read about it quite some time ago).

Pidgey


----------



## Skyeking

Hi Pidgey,

If you suspect heavy metal poisoning
you can help the bird to detox with the following:

For HEAVY METAL detox, like mercury, arsenic, cadmium,

you can give the bird a pinch of:

barley leaf powder
chlorella

for liver cleansing:

milk thistle seed(crush only as you use it)
Reishi-great liver support/detox, long term use
propolis-anti-infectent and helps clear liver

Garlic to purify the blood
Neem oil- anti-pyretic/immune builder

for kidneys:
dandelion tea (half strength) once a week
DHLA-with reservatrol- for kidney.brain,liver function, and it protects & helps with kidneys, liver, lung cancers.

I would highly recommend probiotics too, to help with absorbtion, etc


----------



## Pidgey

Thanks, Treesa, but I guess that the operative words to describe this bird's symptoms would include "hyperexcitability" and "lack of coordination". The lack of coordination does not express at any time other than attempted flight. Just for watching the bird, you wouldn't think that anything was wrong: appetite's good, poop is good... virtual bloom of health, really. But something has affected this bird's brain with respect to coordination and only when movement is fast and energetic--anything done slowly is just fine. The bird is reluctant to fly because she already knows it's a bad idea so she just avoids it. Her balance isn't affected because she does the regular "standing on one foot" gig quite easily.

Pidgey


----------



## Skyeking

Thank you for your response Pidgey,

I'm sure you have already considered extra nutrition in the form of B complex (brewers yeast) vitamins and calcium complex. That may help to calm the excitability as well as provide nutrtion for the nerves, in a calming way.

Also, DHLA balances brain and nerve chemistry.


----------



## jazaroo

Hi Pidgey,

I guess I should have been a little more clear and detailed. When our Amazon suffered from heavy metal poisoning years ago, she did go through Polydipsia/Polyuria during her sickest period. She was treated with both injectable and oral chelating agents and recovered. However, about 6 weeks after returning to "normal" she had a number of episodes of what best can be described as partial paralysis, where she had periods of poor coordination, both in flight and walking. I took her back to the vet and a number of tests where run, which were all normal. I then asked if this could have anything to do with her lead poisoning and he said it might, but there was no real treatment at the time to offer based on her normal test results. He suggested to she how she fared for the next little while and come back if she got worse.

Well, I decided to put her on a detox program which included Alpha Lipoic Acid, NAC and Milk Thistle. She did have a few more episodes, but they eventually did stop. After about a month of her being episode free, I stopped the detox program and she has never had another episode. I can't be sure if the detox program helped, or it would have resolved on its own, but I like to believe what I did helped her.

Ron


----------



## Pidgey

Would you say that the problems she exhibited were the kind of lack of coordination that you see when people barely have enough strength to perform the physical exertion? When I reviewed all the stuff about the various heavy metal poisonings, that was the overall impression that I got--that depression and lethargy (think: weakness) are the norm for metal poisonings. In contrast, this bird has, relatively speaking, way too much energy or, rather, the inability to precisely control the energy that it has and that's neurological.

Pidgey


----------



## jazaroo

Her energy was very good, but it was like something would all of a sudden block neurological signals to her right side, where she would stumble when walking and could not get full control of her right wing when flapping it. It was quite disconcerting at the time.

Ron


----------



## pigeonmama

*updates form Maine*

First off, Pidgey, hope things are improving for your pigeon (?poisoned?)
As to up here, it's rainy and cold today, really a "yuck" sort of day. Gary is in a nearby town for tutoring until 10 a.m., so I have to go pick him up shortly, then head in with my mother for her second cataract surgery. My second eye is next Wednesday, and I will be so glad when it's done. The discrepancy in my vision has been really pesky, making me prone to motion sickness. Gary is doing better, less pain, more mobile.
Got my loft floor all replaced Monday, all old floor pulled up and out, new boards cut and placed in loft, all with only one eye. I'm supposed to avoid dusty places., so you can imagine me ripping up flooring , measuring and cutting boards then replacing them with one eye taped shut.
Well, all the gossip for now.
Daryl


----------



## Pidgey

So you're not going to know how bad of job you did until sometime after next Wednesday, huh? What about those poor pigeons? What are they going to be thinking about every time you go to give them medications? Why, their natural response is going to be something along the lines of, "OMG--she can't even take care of herself and yet she's coming after us with a syringe?!? RUN!!!"

Of course, there's liable to be holes in the flooring that you installed during your handicap that they'll be able to escape through...

Pidgey


----------



## mr squeaks

Glad to hear Gary is doing better!

Can't wait to hear how much better you will be seeing after next Wednesday!

In fact, you WON'T even mind fixing the "one-eyed" boo-boos!    

AND, since Pidgey was teasing you, that means he LIKES you!


----------



## pigeonmama

Shi,
Got my card today. I love the kitty, beautiful blue eyes. I can't imagine either of my 2 cats wearing that "get-up" even for a minute. Thanks you so much and PLEASE DON'T FROWN !
Love,
Daryl


----------



## Pidgey

Well, Pattie Cakers came into the hospital today. She's one that I got in spring of 2001 with a badly broken shoulder (nothing to be done) and she had an oviduct problem over a year ago where that big ball of inflammatory material formed in the oviduct and had to be surgically removed. Well, I saw her moving normally but there was something I didn't like about how she looked so I picked her up and she's lost a lot of weight this week. I brought her inside and isolated her, waiting for poop. She's still got an appetite and has eaten a few times this afternoon.

When I finally got a poop, it's true diarrhea and has a definite odor. There's also a catarrhal discharge. A microscopic examination of a fecal "wet mount" shows some bad bacteria and some flagellating protozoa (trichomonads, hexamita--not sure which). The fecal float was clear--no worms eggs nor coccidial oocysts. I'm treating her with Baytril for the bacteria that I don't like and Metronidazole for the protozoa. I'll do a Gram stain on the next one to see what the negative population is, but I'm pretty sure that it's pretty high.

Pidgey


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## mr squeaks

WARM HEALING WISHES AND HUGS TO PATTIE CAKERS!

Squeaks and I hope she makes a FULL recovery!


----------



## Pidgey

Well, thanks, Squeaks, Pattie Cakers has come close to dying multiple times. Bless her heart, she just wasn't made well enough to live but we've managed to bend the rules just for her so that she could make a life of it anyway. She has raised a few children so there has been some compensation. I've no idea how old she was when I found her in a friend's yard, broken forevermore. I'll never forget the time that Flutter and her built their first nest when I brought up a bunch of hand-selected sticks. I'd made a handicapped-accessible loft apartment with a privacy screen and he carried the individual sticks up and went behind the screen to her. The sounds coming from behind the cardboard sounded remarkably like power tools in constant use--they were busy! Lin and I laughed our hineys off over that. That's five years ago now and she can't lay anymore but I will try to bring her back to health, of that you can be sure.

Pidgey


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## TAWhatley

Sorry to hear she is ill, Pidgey. I sure hope she can recover and have at least a bit more time with you, Lin, and her feathered family.

Terry


----------



## Feather

Who could help but luv a little pidge named Patty Cakers. I am pulling for a fast recovery for this lil one. I know you said that she doesn't lay anymore eggs, but are Flutter and her still an item? Do they still build a nest? And... don't you just love it when they choose the right sticks and present them to their sweethearts for her to arrange.

Get Well Soon, Patty Cakers

Feather


----------



## Pidgey

Yes, Feather, She and Flutter are still an "item". I've never seen either one of them ever look aside. 

It was just as I thought--the amount of Gram (-) in the fecal smear is way too high relative to the Gram (+). I'll watch that over the next few days to see how well the ratio reverses. I will give her probiotics to help this out as this is the undeniably perfect circumstance to warrant that kind of treatment.

I've also got her under a heat lamp.

Pidgey


----------



## jazaroo

Pidgey, glad you caught it when you did, here's wishing her a speedy and full recovery.

Ron

_When you did the "wet mount", what magnification were you using to examine it at?_


----------



## AZfiddler_1996

* Patty Cakers, I hope you have a speedy recovery!* 

(Pidgey, congratulations- you have over 4,000 posts!)

Licha


----------



## Maggie-NC

Pidgey, you know it goes without saying that I'll remember Patty Cakers in my prayers. She is one of the special ones. If I remember correctly, Lin named her, and I have always loved the name. It always hurts when any of our babies get sick but especially so when it is a special one.


----------



## Pidgey

AZfiddler_1996 said:


> (Pidgey, congratulations- you have over 4,000 posts!)


Lichita, 

And in only a year and a half! I should change my online name from "Pidgey" to "Gabby"!



jazaroo said:


> _When you did the "wet mount", what magnification were you using to examine it at?_


Jaz,

All of them, but you're not going to see bacteria decently until you get to the 100x oil objective, with oil and with a #0 coverslip. The light needs to be adjusted to provide the best contrast, too. And further, you have to slowly focus down through the layer because the plane of sharp focus is thinner than the layer of goo will be between the coverslip and the slide. 

You can see things wandering around at lesser magnifications depending on the quality of the lenses. It's really nice to have "Plan Achromat" lenses because those flatten out the depth of field but that's a luxury. You see, the depth of field of a standard achromat is a spherical property and so you can get the middle of what you're seeing in focus but then have to adjust the focus knob downward for the focus to travel outward like ripples on water from a point splash. The Plan Achromats (it's a type--not a specific brand) have been designed to flatten the depth of field to correct for this so that you see just about everything in the field of view in focus at the same time.

All,

Well, a new development: in a poop this morning was deposited an organic piece that I felt was part of a developing embryo. Upon closer examination, it is a somewhat formed chick's head complete with a beak. I had hoped from her problem a year ago that she would be barren but I see now that she's part way in between. We can't let this go on so I'm going to have to build her up and then go in for the surgical removal of the oviduct in a week or two.

A truly positive note: she laid down under the heat lamp and made a show of being comfortable by spreading her wings a bit. She gets up (embarrassed) when you walk in and stare so it's pretty obvious that she's soaking it up.

Pidgey


----------



## jazaroo

Thanks Pidgey, for the thorough explanation.

Well, it least it seems you have an answer for what is going on with Pattie Cakers, glad to hear she is soaking up the warmth, resting comfortably and healing.

Ron


----------



## Maggie-NC

Pidgey, do you think the partial embryo is all of it or could there be more to come out? Poor baby.


----------



## Pidgey

jazaroo said:


> Well, it least it seems you have an answer for what is going on with Pattie Cakers, glad to hear she is soaking up the warmth, resting comfortably and healing.


Yes, Jaz, but it's not a good one to have, of course, seeing as how it means that we're going to have to resort to surgery soon after a rough battle. I think it's likely that a significant percentage of hens die from some kind of related complication that is simply never discovered.



Lady Tarheel said:


> Pidgey, do you think the partial embryo is all of it or could there be more to come out? Poor baby.


Well, the good news is that it did come out on its own which points to the probability that the oviduct isn't ruptured, else it would have spilled into the abdominal cavity and become a worse problem. We'll just have to wait and see what else comes out and how she comes along. I may run a scope up there later for a look-see but I'd want her feeling a bit better first. Also, I may ramp up the party by adding Keflex to the med mix but it's wait-and-see at the moment and my decision is going to based on how the daily labs come back. Her appetite is still there so we'll probably err to the side of restraint at the moment.

Pidgey


----------



## jazaroo

No Pidgey, I imagine it is not a good one to have. However, on the up side, you have a vet that is quite familiar with this operation, you are on top of any developing infection and she could not have better hands to tend to her, so she has a lot going for her.

My thoughts are with you,

Jaz


----------



## Larry_Cologne

*re Plan Achromat microscope objectives*

Hello Pidgey,

I know you have your hands full (sandwiches in one, pidgies in the other) and I don't want to keep you too busy. Just one little question. I used microscopes years ago (1965.-1970) for a semester or so in university biology classes, and appreciate anything that makes the squinting go a little easier.

Someday I would like to pick up a good microscope, maybe when I am rich, ha-ha. Question is, I noticed at the Nikon web-link listed below that they offer pln achromat objectiives in several powers (20x, 40x, 100x, etc.) If one didn't have the money for planar objective lenses in all powers, which powers/magnifcations would you think most important to shoot for (specifically in regards to pigeon-related things such as fecal floats). I know one can't always have everything, but sometimes its useful to have a general goal. I also enjoyed looking at microbes in water -- hydra, protozoa, and such back then. 

http://www.nikonusa.com/template.php?cat=5&grp=316&productNr=CFIPAPH#

I have also been following this thread off and on, but don't like to get in the way by commenting on everything unless I feel I can scrounge up something useful to add. Best of luck with your pidgie family.

Thanks, Larry


----------



## Pidgey

Larry,

It would depend on my budget. I operated with non-Plans for over a year and didn't even know it. Then I found something on eBay where someone was selling a bunch of lenses in a group and there was one that I wanted (a 40x Darkfield). It's only after I got them that I realized there was a difference between the Plans in the group and what I actually had. After playing with them, I thought, "huh... these are a tad better." 

That said, the 100x oil Plan is handier than any of the others because the effective depth of field is much narrower--it's hard to tell the difference in the 40x and almost impossible in the 10x. But, the only real difference is that you have to pan vertically with the focus or sideways with the stage in order to take in everything in the field. It doesn't, therefore, limit the use of the tool as a whole--merely the amount of work that you go through to make a clinical determination, and that only a little bit. Never lose sight of why you're using the scope in the first place.

By the way, the lenses that you linked above are for phase-contrast microscopy. That's a different animal than the simple Brightfield microscopy that I use and more expensive. Better... nicer... but...

http://www.microscopyu.com/articles/phasecontrast/phasehome.html

Pidgey


----------



## Pidgey

Well, did more lab and the picture is looking a little better but I don't expect to see dramatic results for a couple more days. I brought her husband in for a visit and she definitely perked up. I put pictures here:



She has pooped some enormous poops today which says something for her appetite which has gotten dramatically better. I have no idea whether she also suffered from GI stasis. Anyhow, her poops look very much like Winter's did at that same period and there's a picture of that too in that link above--you just have to scroll through them on the Webshots website.

Pidgey


----------



## TAWhatley

I'm sorry Pattie Cakers continues to have some difficulties though it seems things may be on the upswing. The conjugal visit pictures were wonderful .. he's wondering what the heck is going on, and she's just happy to see him. 

Terry


----------



## Maggie-NC

Pidgey, Pattie Cakers is looking good. I am very happy you brought her husband in. I worried about that last night and had planned to PM you about letting them visit just so they would know each are OK.


----------



## Pidgey

Oh, I always do that when possible--it's part of the therapy.

Pidgey


----------



## Pidgey

Something that I hadn't previously considered: Since birds' urine flows retrograde into the intestines for water reclamation (birds let their colons absorb the water from pee before flushing the toilet), it's a normal consequence for an infection of the oviduct (which dumps into the urodeum with urine from the kidneys) to end up spreading infection into the intestines.

Pattie Cakers' poop is extremely similar to Winter's during her episode at this point.

Pidgey


----------



## Pidgey

In other news, the neuro pijjie downstairs is getting better at flying. When she really gets excited, it affects her but that is slowly but surely going away. I expect that she'd heal faster if she'd exercise more but when you go down there, more often than not she's laying around sleeping. We're talking pure, undiluted laziness here. Sometimes, she doesn't even get up when you get close--she just looks at you like, "what do YOU want?"

Pidgey


----------



## mr squeaks

Pidgey said:


> In other news, the neuro pijjie downstairs is getting better at flying. When she really gets excited, it affects her but that is slowly but surely going away. I expect that she'd heal faster if she'd exercise more but when you go down there, more often than not she's laying around sleeping. *We're talking pure, undiluted laziness here. Sometimes, she doesn't even get up when you get close--she just looks at you like, "what do YOU want?"*
> 
> Pidgey


Assuming, of course, that she's not sick...I would say that she knows a good thing when she finds one! I can just "hear" her thinking, "Why should I exercise, get lots better and then get kicked out?! I have every thing a lucky pij could ever want! Think I'm gonna give THIS LIFE UP? Think again, Bubba!"   

AND, if I saw you getting THAT close, I'd look at you the SAME way! Momma pij didn't raise no dummies!


----------



## Pidgey

Well, Pattie Cakers is definitely "out of the woods" now. I got wing-whacked last night and her poops are well-formed balls. Here is an example of what they're coming out like, now:

[img=http://thumb17.webshots.net/t/20/21/3/78/41/2301378410073664377NZjxBJ_th.jpg]

...and so now it's just going to take time to build some muscle and reserves back up to prepare for surgery. In palpating the abdomen, I can feel some mass inside that I don't like so there's no way to get out of it--she'd just relapse straight back if the meds were stopped. 

Incidentally, she weighs 269.5 grams and is getting 4 milligrams of Baytril and 8 milligrams of Metronidazole, both twice daily. She is getting an occasional case of the shakes but she isn't staying under the heat lamp as much. Even with Winter (the bird, not the season) it was the same--not due to coldness. I may drop the Met soon and add Keflex.

Pidgey


----------



## Skyeking

I'm glad to hear Pattie Cakers is stablized and doing so well.

Please do continue to update us on her condition as well as the surgery.


----------



## TAWhatley

I hope she will continue to do well and that the surgery is successful.

Terry


----------



## jazaroo

Pidgey, glad to hear she is making progress.

Thanks for the update and all the best,

Ron


----------



## Pidgey

Quickie update,

I think my hand got fan-danced this morning. She's starting to give the lonely-pij moans from time to time. She is ever-so-slowly adding weight. I had given her a 10-day course of Baytril and introduced Keflex as a co-antibiotic (30 milligrams, BID) the last three days of that treatment (the Metronidazole course was already finished a couple of days before that). She's still on the Keflex and I let the Baytril end when the 10 days were up--I elected to let the Keflex take over and it's doing a good job. I don't think we can let the Keflex stop until a few days after she gets the surgery, though. She still shakes a little at times various and sundry. I tried to get a vet appointment but he didn't call me back these last couple of days before Thanksgiving, can't imagine why! Anyhow, I feel good enough about her at this point that we can schedule the surgery at the next good opportunity. I will try to take the camera along and get pictures for this and post them in the Ruptured Oviduct thread--that might be helpful to someone, sometime, if they turn out okay.


----------



## Maggie-NC

Hi Pidgey

Glad to hear the good report on Pattie Cakers.


----------



## mr squeaks

Sure am wishing Patti Cakers the best!


----------



## Reti

Thanks for the good update.

Reti


----------



## jazaroo

*Sounds Good*

Glad here her she is steadily progressing. Thanks for the update.

All the best,

Jaz


----------



## TerriB

Sending best wishes for Patti Cakers' surgery!


----------



## Pidgey

Pattie Cakers is out in the loft again because she got to feeling good enough to continually escape from her pen and start walking the house. I'm continuing her medications out in the loft and allowing her supplemental safflower seeds. She's pretty good at taking the second medicine but puts up a real fight on the first one.

YoYo had taken a turn for the worse which nothing seemed able to stop: he was heading towards "status epilepticus" by way of having more and longer seizures. He'd spend the day doing something similar to stargazing only that wasn't quite it. So, I finally did the thing I'd been avoiding for a long time now and put him on Phenobarbital at 2 milligrams per kilogram, BID (twice daily).

In the book, it's dosed at 1-5 milligrams per kilogram, BID as well as a few other protocols (e.g., in the water) so I gave it a shot this way. These are really tiny flakes that I had to measure out at 2 milligrams actual per dose (the pill is 64.8 milligram medicine but actually weighs near 230 milligrams) and mostly because that's the smallest unit that I can weigh, and that not easily.

Anyhow, he's doing a lot better now. It seems that he's still having a few seizures of fairly short duration but he's a lot more active as well. With that kind of medication, it takes a couple of weeks before you reach a good steady plasma concentration and I have been seeing daily improvement. It is, however, a ball-and-chain because this type of medication needs to be very steadily given with no end in sight.

As bad as I hate to say it, it was getting to the point of considering putting him to sleep but that's really tough for me.

Pidgey


----------



## pigeonmama

Oh, Pidgey 
I hope all turns around for you and your feathered kids.
Daryl


----------



## mr squeaks

Glad to hear about Patti but SO SORRY to hear about YoYo!

As with other members, I add my hopes that YoYo will do well on the medication and will stabilize.

HUGS and LOVE TO YOU BOTH!


----------



## jazaroo

Hi Pidgey,

Thanks for the update on Pattie Cakers, it is always a good sign when they think they are Houdini.

As for YoYo, I remember reading read quite some time ago, perhaps a few years, about a bird, a Parrot and I can't recall the breed, that was doing something similar. Transfixed and staring off, I don't believe they called it star gazing at the time, and seizures. It turned out in the end, after puzzling more than a few vets, the bird had a chronic systemic fungal infection that was effecting its nervous system, was put on an systemic anti-fungal, Itraconazole I recall, and the bird recovered.

I tried looking through some back issues of BirdTalk for the article, but could not find it (to tell you the truth, it might have been on the Net, but I did a search and can't find it there as well). Don't know if this is a possibility for YoYo, but I thought I would mention it. I am glad the meds are kicking in and taking some pressure off of both of you.

All the best,

Ron


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## AZfiddler_1996

Pidgey said:


> Pattie Cakers is out in the loft again because she got to feeling good enough to continually escape from her pen and start walking the house. I'm continuing her medications out in the loft and allowing her supplemental safflower seeds. She's pretty good at taking the second medicine but puts up a real fight on the first one.
> 
> YoYo had taken a turn for the worse which nothing seemed able to stop: he was heading towards "status epilepticus" by way of having more and longer seizures. He'd spend the day doing something similar to stargazing only that wasn't quite it. So, I finally did the thing I'd been avoiding for a long time now and put him on Phenobarbital at 2 milligrams per kilogram, BID (twice daily).
> 
> In the book, it's dosed at 1-5 milligrams per kilogram, BID as well as a few other protocols (e.g., in the water) so I gave it a shot this way. These are really tiny flakes that I had to measure out at 2 milligrams actual per dose (the pill is 64.8 milligram medicine but actually weighs near 230 milligrams) and mostly because that's the smallest unit that I can weigh, and that not easily.
> 
> Anyhow, he's doing a lot better now. It seems that he's still having a few seizures of fairly short duration but he's a lot more active as well. With that kind of medication, it takes a couple of weeks before you reach a good steady plasma concentration and I have been seeing daily improvement. It is, however, a ball-and-chain because this type of medication needs to be very steadily given with no end in sight.
> 
> As bad as I hate to say it, it was getting to the point of considering putting him to sleep but that's really tough for me.
> 
> Pidgey


 Oh, Pidgey, I'm so sorry to hear YoYo is getting worse, he holds a special place in my heart. 

Lichita


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## Pidgey

Thanks for the well-wishes, folks. YoYo's acting fairly normal at this point. Also, Jaz, thanks for that comment. I'm not even sure how one would go about testing for that. YoYo's been that way for about a year now and it's been very steady. In case you don't remember, YoYo was a baby that I saved about half-way through his chickhood and there was a deformation of the rear of the skull, I think due to canker in the cervicocephalic air sac but that's total theory. At the time, he got the living woowey medicated out of him to bring him back. Now, he's one that really tried hard to die and almost succeeded but he was no match for the cocktail that I gave him. By and large, his system works pretty well but the non-functioning right eye and the skull deformation says a lot. There's no real reason to suspect anything else per se as the condition has been relatively stable for such a long time--it's certainly the kind of history that a vet would just plop down an epilepsy diagnosis and resort to a purely "management" type of treatment. That's what this is and, I have to admit, seems to be working quite well. It's just a real pain in the keester to meter drugs out like that. If I can get them in a better formulation that would be a 30 milligram actual dose or something like that, I'd be a lot happier. Rest assured that YoYo's a pretty happy camper already.

Change of subject, I was walking out of the house this morning to all the ferals that come there to eat and a Cooper's came through blindingly fast and grabbed one in flight. He was headed for the front yard so I high-tailed it there as fast as I could beat feet. Lucky for the pigeon, too, because the Cooper's dropped him as soon as he saw me coming. The pij did not hesitate to fly off at record speed and so did the Cooper's when he saw me coming full steam. He only had the pij for less than 10 seconds and a lot of that flying so hopefully he didn't get any lethal stabs in. He'd grabbed him not ten feet over my head and at full tilt--that was the single fastest attack I've ever witnessed. All the other pigeons went every direction in as fast of a retreat as I've ever seen them do, as well.

Pidgey


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## Skyeking

Pidgey,

Thank you for all your effort in procuring the safety of the feral pigeon. I'm sure he/she is greatful you made the front yard appearance.  

I love it when the hawks lose track of the task at hand, foiled again! They just can't seem to get back on track once they are disturbed/disrupted.


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## Feather

I hope the surgery is a success, and that Patti Cakers will soon feel as good as new.

Feather


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## Pidgey

Alice had asked me to send her a picture of poor little YoYo, which I did but I'm also putting them on Webshots:



YoYo has torn his tail and left wing to tatters for stepping on them when he used to spin in those seizures. He's not doing that now so we'll see if he molts a new set and stays looking better.

Pidgey


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## mr squeaks

Mussed or not, YoYo is quite the cutie! Have his eyes always been "light?" BTW, how old is YoYo now?

Along with everyone else, I'm still sending WARM HEALING THOUGHTS AND HUGS!

Look forward to POSITIVE updates!

YIKES! Off site for a FEW hours and all h*** breaks loose at your house, Pidgey! Now, THAT'S what I call TIMING on your part!!

That hawk that you caught before must have sent a message to his buddy - OR did he find his way back???  

What an experience! AND one that few would experience UNLESS having lots of pigeons around!

P.S. I CERTAINLY HOPE this experience doesn't become routine! You are getting up there in years, y'know, and I don't know how many of these surprises and reactions you can healthfully handle! Time to think of another way to scare off ole Mr. Cooper now that you know he's around!


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## Maggie-NC

Pidgey, those pictures really touch me. You tell Unie not to be so shy next time.

Any idea when you'll schedule Pattie Cakers' surgery?

Good job on saving the feral - next time, go borrow the biting dachsund.


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## mr squeaks

Lady Tarheel said:


> Pidgey, those pictures really touch me. You tell Unie not to be so shy next time.
> 
> *Any idea when you'll schedule Pattie Cakers' surgery?*
> 
> Sure hope all goes well! We will be anxiously waiting....
> 
> *Good job on saving the feral - next time, go borrow the biting dachsund.[/*QUOTE]
> 
> EXCELLENT suggestion, Maggie! Thank goodness for fellow "site sisters!!"
> 
> Of course, IF the dachsund isn't available, maybe Pidgey could do a lot of barking! Since he was bitten, he already has "bark" in his "bite" AND bloodstream.
> 
> *What I wouldn't give to see a video of Pidgey goin' after that hawk -with or without barking!! *
> 
> 
> Actually, the more I think about it, I don't think Mr. Cooper dropped the pij because he was FRIGHTENED! I think he dropped him because he was LAUGHING SO HARD!


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## Pidgey

You guys are SO helpful!

As a matter of fact, I just got off the phone with the vet about Pattie Cakers. Due to the conflicts with both of our schedules, we can't get to it this week. He did inform me though that his go/no-go signal for a surgery of this kind is whether or not there is fullness in the abdomen. When I first found her on this round, she definitely did but it has diminished somewhat. He said that if the oviduct has adhesions, it can be really risky taking it out. That said, he figures that if there's no fullness per se signaling egg contents spilled into the oviduct then it's better to try and manage the recurrent illnesses with antibiotics rather than surgical removal. It sounds to me like he's more interested in the life and survival of the bird, and I respect that. So, we'll probably schedule a visit next week and he can feel the abdomen himself as well as write a script for YoYo's lifeline.

Pidgey


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## Feather

T.R. I know the feeling when a hawk lets one go. It just goes to show that our presence could mean the life of a bird. When I broke my hand in THE BIG SPLAT people always ask me if I learned my lesson (NOT TO GO RUNNING AFTER HAWKS) but the real lesson that I learned is that if you yell, whistle, wave, make noise, there is that chance that you may reclaim your bird.

Great interference Pidgey!

Feather


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## mr squeaks

Surgery is always risky! I DO hope alternative methods will work!

WISHING BOTH YoYo and Patti Cakers THE BEST!

I know you will keep us updated, Pidgey. Many thanks...


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## TerriB

Glad you have such fast reflexes and were able to spook the hawk, Pidgey!! I'm sure your adrenaline level were off the charts. 

I hope that Patti Cakers can maintain a balance based on meds so she doesn't have to undergo surgery. You have a great working relationship with your veterinarian!


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## AZfiddler_1996

************


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## Maggie-NC

Alice, that is a beautiful presentation.


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## AZfiddler_1996

I love YoYo, he's adorable, I could almost scoop him up right off the screen. 

Licha


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## Pidgey

Well, a couple of updates, first the good news. Pattie cakers has been off the sauce (antibiotics) for almost two weeks now and is still gaining weight and managing her own self out in the loft. It still feels like there's an odd fullness in the back end but no hardened lumps and she's certainly not feeling bad at this point (or showing it, anyway). Her breast muscles are about completely filled out again.

The bad news is that while I was away on the trip, YoYo had a quick, hard bad spell that he didn't recover from. When I got home on late Friday evening (the 1st), I could tell it was too late to do anything and he was gone in just a few hours. I was able to make him more comfortable and he did grumble a little bit so I'd like to think that he was saying goodbye in his own way. Lin took it pretty hard, too. I haven't had the heart to do an autopsy, yet.

Pidgey


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## Skyeking

I'm SO sorry to hear about Yo Yo, I'm sure you are both devistated.  

I'm glad Pattie cakers is doing so well.

Sending you both a big hug!


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## Whitefeather

I am so sorry Pidgey.
My condolences to you & Lin on the passing of YoYo.

Glad to hear Pattie Cakers is coming along well.  

"_*Bless you sweet YoYo*_"

Cindy


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## Feather

T.R.

I am so sorry to hear about Yo Yo. I know they take a big chunk of you when they go. It's good to hear that Pattie cakers is doing so well though.

If Yo Yo never found the right time to thank u and Lin for taking such good care of him, I will do it for him.

Thank You


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## Maggie-NC

Dear Pidgey and Lin

You are always here for all of us and I wish we could all be with you now. Just know that I am truly sorry about YoYo. You fought the good fight.


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## Lovebirds

Sorry to hear about YoYo. If anyone of us can give it "our best shot", it's you. We all know that you did what you could for the little guy and he was happy as long as he was with you. HUGS to you and Lin.


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## jazaroo

I am very sorry for your loss Pidgey, my thoughts are with you and Lin.

Ron


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## TAWhatley

Pidgey,

I'm so very sorry that YoYo has passed. You did one terrific job of keeping this bird going and comfortable. I'm just sorry it had to end as soon as it did. Great news at Pattie Cakers!

Terry


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## mr squeaks

I am happy to hear about Patti Cakers...

...but VERY SORRY to hear about YoYo!

HUGS AND COMFORTING THOUGHTS TO YOU AND LIN!


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## Lin Hansen

Pidgey,

Happy for the good news and so sorry for the bad......

Linda


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## TerriB

So sorry that YoYo didn't pull through. With all the intense care you provide, losing one must be difficult. You gave him the best shot at recovery and were able to make his passing more comfortable.

Great news about Pattie Cakers! Sure hope she continues to improve!


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## feralpigeon

Pidgey, I’m sorry to hear about YoYo, I know you’ll both miss him very much.

fp


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## AZfiddler_1996

Pidgey, I'm sorry you lost sweet little YoYo. I know it was very hard.

Lichita


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## Birdmom4ever

Pidgey, I'm so sorry you lost YoYo. At least you were there when he passed.


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## Pidgey

Pidgey said:


> Well, just for a moment, I'd like to "Off Topic" this thread back to pigeons. I've currently got one that a vet called me about on the day that we were traveling down to Bonaire (Oct 11th). They'd had it for a couple of days (a client had brought it in) and they said at the time that it was found in the client's yard unable to fly over a foot or two high. I picked it up after we got home and did some lab: roundworms, Capillaria (threadworms) and Coccidial oocysts, but not in numbers that would signal a real problem. Actually the bird seemed more nervous (downright anti-social) than anything and given to explosive overcontrol of the flight muscles. I think she could easily fly if she could calm down but any attempts at flight she's made are way too energetic to work out right. That is, she crashes regularly.
> 
> I think she's slowly getting better and I've had her on Baytril because she was also a bit Gram-negative in the stool. So, her health is pretty good and her poops have always looked good (she's a full adult, by the way) but she's just got this neural thing. She used to be the most viscious wing-whacker that I've ever seen (makes Jackie Chan look like an electric pram) but she's given that up for Lent (gotten used to me, I guess).
> 
> It turns out that she comes from one of the two areas near me that there have been suspected bird poisonings so I'm wondering if she was poisoned at one time. Whatever poison she might have gotten would long-since have been eliminated but I don't know if there are long term effects from them. The only other thing that would make sense would be some of the symptoms of PMV although there certainly hasn't been any of the classic watery droppings or torticollis-type (stargazing; twisting of the neck) symptoms--just a general presentation of some of the regular after-effects of PMV.
> 
> Anyhow, she made a flight off my hand this morning and managed to NOT crash although it was a real close call. She did NOT manage to go where she was aiming for, however. Anyway, I'm not certain if Atropine (the active ingredient from Belladonna) would be of any help or not at this point. Has anyone had any experience with long-term effects resulting from known poisons?
> 
> Pidgey


Well, some news on this bird: she's out in the loft now. She'd started flying around the basement quite a bit and would sit in the sunbeams during the day so Lin named her "Sunbeamer". I took her out to the loft on occasion and slowly gave her time. Her mental faculties aren't the sharpest so it's been a long haul teaching her where the waterer is and how to use it. I had to bring her in to tank back up on food and water several times in the last few weeks but she's finally gotten it, I think. Her flight tendencies are still a bit erratic but she doesn't run into stuff anymore. She pecks a little too hard but she has gotten somewhat better at picking stuff off a hard surface including quick grabs at corn. I really don't think she could make it back out in the rough wild world that she came from but that's not a problem right now anyway. We'll see how much better she's gotten by early summer.

Pidgey


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## mr squeaks

Thanks for the update on Sunbeamer, Pidgey.

Sure hope she continues to improve.

Mr. Squeaks and I send our best!!


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## TerriB

Way to go!! Glad to hear that little Sunbeamer is making such excellent progress. Great work!


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## Maggie-NC

Nona, you got that right. I wish the powers that be would make him a moderator.

I want to add too that not only do you see what Pidgey does openly on the forum for people but he helps others, like me, who either PM or e-mail him with a problem, advice or, sometimes, in my case as a "sounding board". 

I consider him a good friend.


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## mr squeaks

A speed reader, indeed, at the least!

I'm also sure that the ENERGIZER BUNNY was modeled after him! Pidgey keeps goin' and goin'... 

...and, THAT IS WHY he needs his PigeonFairyGodmother to watch over him! He won't take sensible advice to "*relax*!"

HEED THIS, Guardian of Broken Pidgeons..."less is sometimes MORE!"  

or, otherwise interpreted as: "help yourself, help us, help others..."  

*sigh*
Hugs to help...

Shi
Mr. Squeaks


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## Feather

There are many Pidgeys! One man couldn't do all that work. That is why he doesn't like anyone to praise him, or express admiration.

Pidgey the innocent
Pidgey the tired
Pidgey the wiener dog bitten 
Thorned Rooster

are just a few of the guys that work out of his Tulsa office.


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## Pigeonpal2002

little bird said:


> Yesterday I had nothing better to do than hang out with my flock and our "paid guests" so I browsed all day on PT site. * From when I logged on at about 9AM...PIDGEY was already "working" on the day's crisises. He orchestrated the introduction of FERALPIGEON to PEARLYKITTY for the rescue of an oily and rain soaked feral in the SF, CALIF bay area......... He contacted PHYLL in Long Island, NY to help rescue an abandoned flock reported by EARTHANGEL.....all the time working on the medication to save KAJUPAKI's pet in INDIA!!!! * PIDGEY finally called it a day after midnight, Tulsa time.
> What an awesone and PRICELESS member of this web-site!!


Hi Nona, 

You are so right about Pidgey. He really does tremendous stuff here and always has time to help everyone. I don't know HOW he does it or where he gets the time but he's one very dedicated and knowledgable guy! Thanks Pidgey for all you've done to help people in the forum, myself included.

I think you should start signing your name as...


Pidgey ~ the miracle worker


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## Victor

*About Pidgey*

I have never met Pidgey, or even had the honor of talking with him as I have with several other members of our forum, but I feel as if I know him personaly. I have learned much from his skillful advice. I admire his never ending struggle to help those of us who seek help and he has a sense of humor too! I know he probably doesn't like praise, but I just _had_ to add my 2 cents in here and thank him for all the work he does on Pigeon Talk.

Pidgey the moderator (it has a nice ring to it)


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## Pidgey

Guys, guys, guys...

Just keep it up and I'll be suffering a case of cranial edema that'll make a subdural hematoma look like a hiccup. 

Well, thanks for all that but I have personally diagnosed myself as suffering an "obsessive/compulsive disorder". As it happens, others sometimes benefit from my mental illness. I have to work especially hard to keep my doctor from figuring it out because I neither look good in white nor do I feel well on Thorazine.

Moderating is more about whuppin' people's... <Ahem!>s... or just plain canning them when things get 'out of hand'. And, of course, I get too much pleasure at getting out of hand myself occasionally... I could probably blame that on a well-known viral disease occasionally obtained from wiener dog bites but many would be quick to point out that it was a pre-existing condition and that the exact wiener dog in question probably came away the worse for the engagement.

Pidgey


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## Victor

YOU GO GIRL! 

Tell him like it is!

Oh, ahhh, we might get in trouble here for "getting off topic" and get our own ****s whupped like Pidgey indicated.


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## mr squeaks

little bird said:


> Too bad.......We love you and admire you.......GET USED TO IT !!!


Ain't gonna *touch* that one...

*(Note: be careful what you wish for...)*


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## Feather

Watch it Nona...the guy will lash back at you. 

When I felt this overwhelming surge to tell "THE PIDGE" how much he was admired...he called me an OLD, WASHED UP, POOR, UNEXCITING EXCUSE FOR A SUPER HERO.

As I sat here at my computer with my Wonder Woman outfit on, just ready to save the world, I realized that even people as wonderful as T.R. make the wrong judgement call.

or

As I sat here at my computer with my Wonder Woman outfit on, I wondered just how he could see through this monitor.

Feather


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## Pidgey

Feather said:


> Watch it Nona...the guy will lash back at you.
> 
> When I felt this overwhelming surge to tell "THE PIDGE" how much he was admired...he called me an OLD, WASHED UP, POOR, UNEXCITING EXCUSE FOR A SUPER HERO.


You fibber! Crap, you're as bad as I am!

Pidgey


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## Feather

O.K. so I fibbed a little and exagerated alot. But you did call me old. You called me something. I forgot what....but something.

Feather


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## mr squeaks

little bird said:


> Whoa boy...........is this a case of the pot and the kettle???
> 
> Feather--I doubt there is anything, Pidgey the gentleman, would ever say that I couldn't accept as his own personal brand of humor. Trying to juggle a dozen problems at a time makes one frustrated.....*a man needs someone to "beat up".......who better than his friends???*



OK, that's it! 

Feather, you caved in! Do NOT let T.R. get away with his *denial!*

Things are beginning to get piled and deeper, if y'all get my drift! Boy, has Pidgey got y'all buffaloed! Just shows to go ya what a MASTER in deception magic can do...*SIGH* I realize that I'm the lone one howling in the wind, but I accept this job. SOMEONE has to do it!

YES, I DID bestow the title: "Guardian of Broken Pigeons" upon Pidgey and I would NEVER attack his pigeon healing powers*...however, that is the ONLY area not up for grabs! Everything else is fair game.  

I joined PT slightly before Pidgey and have seen him come a loooong way with his *php - BUT, there have also been disquietling things...I innocently jumped in when he and Pigeonmama were fighting the civil war all over again - and things ain't been the same since. I even "adopted" him as an older brother, which would make him "family," and therefore respected. BUT, how does he repay this honor? He calls me MIZZZZ SQUAWKS! I vowed not to take his attacks meekly and will now take him on as only a "sister" can! All one has to do to read his past posts... AND I am not the only one...just the bravest to stand up to him!
(Feather is just tooo nice!)

Gentleman? My foot...rogue is more like it! And I WILL say - again - that my hat is off to him...does he have y'all fooled!    

P.S. Frustrated? He WON'T LISTEN to SUGGESTIONS ABOUT RELAXING! No wonder he's frustrated!


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## Feather

It didn't take me long to realize that T.R. would rather be picked on than praised. So that is what I do...pick on him every chance I get. Many of us ralley to pick on Pidgey when we can. It is all done in good fun...and we do have fun.

Feather


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## Pidgey

Alright, a piece of news on this thread regarding its original subject: DD (Duck Decoy, the bird that had its right leg nearly severed off) is still in the loft and has married Sunbeam, the bird with neurological problems who was given to the vet about the time we went on vacation last year. DD walks fairly well now although there is a definite limp. Sunbeam still does a few circles now and then. But, they're apparently happy together as Sunbeam doesn't circle when she's sitting on eggs. I originally intended to let DD go when I was sure that his leg would no longer be a problem but I don't see how I can now since his wife's got mental problems and couldn't make it out on the street.

Pidgey


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## Feather

Yeah, I intended to release "all" of mine. I don't know what happens! I release them every day and they all come back.


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## mr squeaks

Many thanks for the update, Pidgey! Good news is ALWAYS welcomed!!  

Feather: of COURSE they come back...you just have a natural charisma! Besides, they know you're also WW, with SPP ties, and know they are safe!


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## Maggie-NC

Pidgey, good call on not releasing DD since he and Sunbeam are now a pair. You would probably always worry about him - that is the reason I have so many keepers! I'm really glad to hear DD is doing so well.


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