# Help! Pigeon found near my house.



## MikeDougherty (Sep 11, 2011)

I feed a flock of pigeons and I found one next to my green bin.

Here is a video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UVNYnCzcBs

I don't know what to do? Should I pick him up and make sure he doesn't get attacked by a cat?

Thank you so much!

Mike

Edit: I tried picking him up but he flew 10 feet onto my car so at least he is somewhat safer.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Yes...do pick him up and bring him inside. A pet carrier, such as one to take a cat or small dog to the vet, would work well as a temporary house. If you don't have one of those, a regular box, with a screen over the top will do. Do put a towel on the bottom. I usually cover the towel with a paper towel which prolongs the use of the towel and makes it easier to look at the droppings.


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## horseart4u (Jun 16, 2011)

poor little guy, yes he is definitly sick, for him just sit there like that while you touch him, i see no bands so he is feral. YES by all means bring him inside. and get in touch with an avian vet if know of one. pic's of his dropping will also help people on here that rehab ferals tell more info. good luck with him.


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## MikeDougherty (Sep 11, 2011)

When he flew on my car he had droppings where he was originally sitting. Should I take a pic of them?


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## MikeDougherty (Sep 11, 2011)

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/841/20110911135623.jpg/


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## MikeDougherty (Sep 11, 2011)

I don't have a bird cage. I'm not sure what I should use to cover the top of the bucket I want to use?


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## MikeDougherty (Sep 11, 2011)

OK he is now safe and sound inside my house in a wicker laundry basket. It is actually quite nice for the little guy!!

So I guess I should call a vet? My uncle is a vet in California and St. Kitts, would he be any use?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

The droppings are an indication that he hasn't been eating. 
Is your uncle where you are? Does he treat birds?
I'm going to post a link for stabalizing the bird...give me a second...


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Here you go...
Also...have a look in the bird's mouth and down the throat. Does it look pink or it it an off color like bight red or gray color. Check for any yellow button things in the mounth or throat.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f95/basic-steps-to-saving-the-life-of-a-pigeon-or-dove-8822.html


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## MikeDougherty (Sep 11, 2011)

I am not sure if he treats birds but I guess it wouldn't hurt asking.

All the animal clinics are closed today except for an emergency clinic. Should I wait till tomorrow to call a clinic?

Thank you so much for all the help.


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## MikeDougherty (Sep 11, 2011)

What is the best way to open his mouth? Grab the top of his beak and open the bottom part with my other hand?

Thank you,

Mike


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Hold the beak with your fingers, use your finger nails and gently pry it open.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I forgot to add, feel below the throat and the bone that runs down the center of the bird's body...that's the keel bone. Is it sharp feeling?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Where in Canada are you located? It's sure worth calling your uncle and ask him if he can do a fecal analysis even if he doesn't treat birds.


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## MikeDougherty (Sep 11, 2011)

OK thank you I was able to do it without much resistance but I will have to wait for someone to hold a flashlight for me.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Were you able to read the link I posted?
What's the weather been like where you live?


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## MikeDougherty (Sep 11, 2011)

I looked down his throat and it seemed fine. Not pink or grey. And no yellow thing. I do feel a bit of a sharp point when I feel down the centre of his body.

The weather has been normal. like 75f maybe? Rained 4 days ago or so but he shouldn't have any problem getting water.


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## MikeDougherty (Sep 11, 2011)

So I have been following instruction and giving him a salt + sugar solution along his beak. He starts trying to drink any drop of water he sees by sucking it up. When should I give him his own small bowl of water? He seems to be taking to the water well.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

MIke...I just sent you an email with my phone number. I think it might be in the best interest of the pigeon to speak directly.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Once stabilized I think this bird needs to be put on a course of meds. If you are in the Toronto or Montreal area, I can suggest a few places where you can get them without a prescription, over-the-counter, if you are in the western part of the country I can suggest a place you can order meds from, without having to deal with border issues.

Good luck with him,

Karyn


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## November-X-Scourge (May 12, 2011)

Poor little guy!! I hope you can fix him up! I know little about sick pigeons...so I wont be of much help, but I sent my good vibes to him!


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Dobato said:


> Once stabilized I think this bird needs to be put on a course of meds. *If you are in the Toronto or Montreal area, I can suggest a few places where you can get them without a prescription, over-the-counter, if you are in the western part of the country I can suggest a place *you can order meds from, without having to deal with border issues.
> 
> Good luck with him,
> 
> Karyn



He's not. Although we'd like to know those places.
It's handled.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Tropical fish stores in Toronto and Montreal and a supply place out west, could you be more detailed in your statement, "it's handled", how has it been handled, we'd like to know that as well?

Karyn


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## November-X-Scourge (May 12, 2011)

I wanna know!!!!!!!11!! ---he didnt give the pij to a wildlife center, did he? The last wildlife center that looked at a bird in my presence said that he'd die within the next day, and November's still prettyyy alive! So I hope that if he did, its a better one than the one here!


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

November-X-Scourge said:


> I wanna know!!!!!!!11!! ---*he didnt give the pij to a wildlife center,* did he? The last wildlife center that looked at a bird in my presence said that he'd die within the next day, and November's still prettyyy alive! So I hope that if he did, its a better one than the one here!



No he didn't.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Charis said:


> No he didn't.


What's the big mystery on how this was handled, how is the way you are being so secretive in not disclosing what exactly going on with this bird helpful to other rescuers in the future that many times just lurk, and don't post.

Karyn


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## MikeDougherty (Sep 11, 2011)

Dobato said:


> What's the big mystery on how this was handled, how is the way you are being so secretive in not disclosing what exactly going on with this bird helpful to other rescuers in the future that many times just lurk, and don't post.
> 
> Karyn


Charis has told me to buy some Fish Zole and to feed him small defrosted frozen peas.


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## MikeDougherty (Sep 11, 2011)

I can't find Fish Zole and am having a tough time finding metronidizole. One place has it but I need to see the vet first and the vet doesn't do pigeons.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Mike thanks for posting. In my opinion, from the look of this bird and the photo of the dropping you posted, this bird may have more issues going on with it than Fish-Zole will be able to treat. I think this bird also needs to be on a sulfa based broad spectrum antibiotic that will treat this bird for coccidiosis, a GI infection that can ground a bird such as has happened with this one, plus will treat for salmonella and E. Coli as well as. A good deal of the time, a bird like this has a few issues going on at the same time, the Metronidazole (Fish-Zole) will not treat many of these other issues. 

Also, in the time I have been posting here, as best as I can remember, I have yet to see someone mention that they were able to by Fish-Zole anywhere local, they had to buy it on line. If you are going to try and by Fish-Zole from a tropical pet store, you can ask for it, but in all likelihood they will not have it. What there is a good chance of them having is a medicine called Metroplex, made by Seachem, as with the Fish-Zole it is 100% Metronidazole and broadly distributed. 

I am suggesting the Metronidazole is a good idea, I would also have suggested this, but I am also suggesting that if there is more going on with this bird that Metronidazole does not handle, this bird will die. The sooner this bird can get started on the meds, the better its chances are, not sure where you are going to try and source meds, but I can make a few suggestions for you if you'd like, plus also make a suggestion for a broad spectrum antibiotic as well.

This is why open discussion and full disclosure is important in a thread, as my thoughts may not necessarily be right, but I believe they are. However, without knowing exactly what was suggested to help bird, other voices can not add their opinion, which is to the detriment of the bird and the caregiver.

Where are you located?

Good luck with this little one,

Karyn


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## MikeDougherty (Sep 11, 2011)

I am located in Halifax, NS Canada.


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## MikeDougherty (Sep 11, 2011)

I might order online Seachem Metronidazole 5g http://www.bigalspets.ca/Seachem-Me...olor_map,price,size_name&searchRank=salesrank

I doubt it would arrive in time but I am desperate.


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## MikeDougherty (Sep 11, 2011)

And lucky me, a store 10 minutes from my house where I could probably easily get metronidazole shut down a couple months ago


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Mike, not a huge selection of tropical fish stores out there, but let's see if we get lucky. Here are a couple of links to help you out below. Call them and see if they have FishZole, by Thomas Labs, or Metroplex by Seachem. Also see if they have a medicine called Triple-Sulfa by API as this will be the broad spectrum antibiotic I mentioned. Yes, Big Al's is the place I have suggested for people in Toronto, they could next day the meds to you and the also have the Triple-Sulfa there if we don't get lucky with the links below.

http://maps.google.com/maps/place?p...c,Halifax,+NS,+Canada&cid=5861905998835381997

http://www.halifax.servpro.ca/listcompht/31464/Aquariums-Aquarium-Supplies.html

Good luck,

Karyn


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## MikeDougherty (Sep 11, 2011)

So I called the Hope For Wildlife Society and they said they can't give me medication but they could take him in. I said I wanted to just get the medication so the director of the organization is going to give me a call back.


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## MikeDougherty (Sep 11, 2011)

Dobato said:


> Mike, not a huge selection of tropical fish stores out there, but let's see if we get lucky. Here are a couple of links to help you out below. Call them and see if they have FishZole, by Thomas Labs, or Metroplex by Seachem. Also see if they have a medicine called Triple-Sulfa by API as this will be the broad spectrum antibiotic I mentioned. Yes, Big Al's is the place I have suggested for people in Toronto, they could next day the meds to you and the also have the Triple-Sulfa there if we don't get lucky with the links below.
> 
> http://maps.google.com/maps/place?p...c,Halifax,+NS,+Canada&cid=5861905998835381997
> 
> ...


None of them have metronidazole. The only option I seem to have is to bring him to an a special animal shelter.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

MikeDougherty said:


> None of them have metronidazole. The only option I seem to have is to bring him to an a special animal shelter.


Did you ask if they have the Triple-Sulfa by API, or an alternative TriSulfa by Mardel?.. so no Metroplex? Can you aske them if they know wnybody local what has it?

Karyn


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## MikeDougherty (Sep 11, 2011)

Well he is going to the wildlife center no other option unfortunately.


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## MikeDougherty (Sep 11, 2011)

Dobato said:


> Did you ask if they have the Triple-Sulfa by API, or an alternative TriSulfa by Mardel?.. so no Metroplex? Can you aske them if they know wnybody local what has it?
> 
> Karyn


No metroplex. I didn't ask about TriSulfa but would that be enough?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

MikeDougherty said:


> No metroplex. I didn't ask about TriSulfa but would that be enough?


In my option, I actually think the antibiotic is more important and Metroplex could come from Big Al's in a day. Also, a vet does not have to do any pigeons or birds to help this guy, if you say he is a pet he just really needs to dispense meds for you and they would be the Metronidazole and instead of the Triple-Sulfa, a relative called Trimethoprim/Sulfa the dosing for both meds would be 50mg/kg BID (twice a day), if he needs to know how much to prescribe for 10 days.

The Wildlife may be the way to go, but some of these places have indifference towards pigeons, because they are so common, and many times choose what they call human euthanization for one that may need a fair amount of time and care to bring back. May not be the case with these people, they may be just super, but I thought I should mention that. Perhaps you can ask about how many pigeons they have helped, how is their success with them and what their euthanization policy is (ie will they make a real effort of just PTS - put to sleep)

Should also mention the Metronidazole is used for humans as well, it's called Flagyl and would not be super unusual to find around some homes.

Karyn


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## MikeDougherty (Sep 11, 2011)

The problem with saying he is a pet is that they would need to take a look at him and I would be bringing him in in a laundrey hamper so I don't know how believable it would be.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

MikeDougherty said:


> The problem with saying he is a pet is that they would need to take a look at him and I would be bringing him in in a laundrey hamper so I don't know how believable it would be.


Mike, everyday at my vets' people bring in animals in small cardboard boxes, as they can't be bothered spending the money on a carry cage, so trust me, a small box (with some 1/2 air slats cut near the top) with a small towel/cloth lining the bottom, would be be an odd sight at a vet's.

Karyn


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## MikeDougherty (Sep 11, 2011)

OK I found triple-sulfa. I am not sure what to do though. I don't know if I should just pass him off to someone else that may take care of him well or if I should try and do it myself. If he dies though I will blame myself.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

MikeDougherty said:


> OK I found triple-sulfa. I am not sure what to do though. I don't know if I should just pass him off to someone else that may take care of him well or if I should try and do it myself. If he dies though I will blame myself.


Mike always a tough call. If I were to have a choice it would be for you to take him to the vet's get the meds suggested and also have them run a fecal test for worms/parasites. Worms are the wild card in all of this as the meds suggested will cover a majority of the infections that could be making this guy ill, but they will not treat for worms. If the vet runs the fecal he will also be able to tell if this guy is overrun with cocci and also see if there are worms eggs present as well, and prescribe a med for it (not Panacur - aka Fenbendazole, but Pyrantel or Ivermectin) and he would do the fecal float the same as for a cat or dog. Also, speak to the Wildlife and try and get a feel were their head is at with pigeons, this may help you decide. 

Karyn


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## MikeDougherty (Sep 11, 2011)

I am going to have to take him to the shelter as the only place where I can make an appointment says they don't have a spot open today and tomorrow would be the only time. I think waiting 24 more hours is a bit risky for the pigeon.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

MikeDougherty said:


> I am going to have to take him to the shelter as the only place where I can make an appointment says they don't have a spot open today and tomorrow would be the only time. I think waiting 24 more hours is a bit risky for the pigeon.


Mike, why don't you pick up the Triple-Sulfa and we can get him started on antibiotics right away and take him to the vets tomorrow. You will also need a 1cc syringe, the kind without a needle attached (almost any drug store for about $1.00) to administer the meds, easy to mix and dose. How do the people at the Wildlife sound?

Is this little guy drinking on his own?

Karyn


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## MikeDougherty (Sep 11, 2011)

Dobato said:


> Mike, why don't you pick up the Triple-Sulfa and we can get him started on antibiotics right away and take him to the vets tomorrow. You will also need a 1cc syringe, the kind without a needle attached (almost any drug store for about $1.00) to administer the meds, easy to mix and dose. How do the people at the Wildlife sound?
> 
> Is this little guy drinking on his own?
> 
> Karyn


Hi there,

I brought him to the vets who look at him then send him off to the wildlife centre. They think he has a fungal infection in his lungs and he is on antibiotics. They seem to be a good organization and I spoke with the head person. The vet said he ate and drank on his own when he got to the clinic which is good. Thank you for all your help.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

MikeDougherty said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I brought him to the vets who look at him then send him off to the wildlife centre. They think he has a fungal infection in his lungs and he is on antibiotics. Thank you for all your help.


Mike, thanks for the effort you put into trying to get this little guy the help he needed. Systemic fungal infections are more rare, than common, in pigeons and I am hoping that the the antibiotics he has been started on will help him, as fungal infections, while treatable, are more problematic than bacterial infections to deal with. Also, if someone has never seen it before, some of the canker lesions pigeons get in their throats can look like cream colored plaque (though most times they look yellowish in color) and mycotic infections also at times present as white plaque areas, and this could be what was seen during examination. Please mention this to the vet and have them add the Metronidazole (treatment for canker aka Trichomoniasis) into his treatment as well. If you do hear any news, please keep us updated. Good job.

Karyn


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## MikeDougherty (Sep 11, 2011)

Just want to thank everyone for their help. I just called the Wildlife organization and they said he is doing well so that is good news!!


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Mike...I had a long conversation with the director of Hope, a couple of years ago, when I interviewed her for my resource list. I found her to be very kind and respectful of all living creatures. I was so delighted to find her because resources in Canada, for pigeons, are not that easy to come by. In fact, I was horrified with some of the conversations I had with others. When I add a person, vet or care center to my list, I always make personal contact, either myself or a couple of other members here that have helped. If we don't feel good about the way they answer questions, if we feel they don't like pigeons or have an understanding of them, they don't go on the list. 
I think the pigeon is in good hands. You did good too.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Mike thanks for checking in with a positive update on the little guy, well done !

Karyn


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Charis, I was going to leave this alone, but on reconsideration, I do not think it is in the best interest of future rescues that I do. The information that you disclosed in your last post is information, that in my opinion, you should have disclosed when you were first asked for details of what was going on with this rescue and the about the only information you provided was "it's handled". Another forum member asked you about if the caregiver gave the bird to a Wildlife center and you gave a short cryptic answer "no he didn't". I again asked in another post why the mystery and lack of details:



Dobato said:


> What's the big mystery on how this was handled, how is the way you are being so secretive in not disclosing what exactly going on with this bird helpful to other rescuers in the future that many times just lurk, and don't post.
> 
> Karyn


Whatever your motivation was for not providing the forum with details, you now seem so willing to provide after the fact, IMO, you put this bird's life at risk, because I know for myself, I could not in good conscience give Mike a full throated endorsement of the Wildlife center when he asked what he should do. In part for the reasons you yourself state in your post "resources in Canada, for pigeons, are not that easy to come by. In fact, I was horrified with some of the conversations I had with others."

With the little information you did provide, that he did not give it to a Wildlife center, I don't think it unfair for the presumption to be made that you had not suggested a Wildlife place. If I, or others, knew the facts on this place before hand, that the place had been listed as safe, then the answer to Mike would have been yes, the place is pre-screened, get the bird to the Wildlife Center instead of spending time looking for alternatives that might not mean a death sentence for this bird, that some Wildlife centers are for pigeons.

Karyn


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Dobato said:


> Charis, I was going to leave this alone, but on reconsideration, I do not think it is in the best interest of future rescues that I do. The information that you disclosed in your last post is information, that in my opinion, you should have disclosed when you were first asked for details of what was going on with this rescue and the about the only information you provided was "*it's handled*". Another forum member asked you about if the caregiver gave the bird to a Wildlife center and you gave a short cryptic answer *"no he didn't". *I again asked in another post why the mystery and lack of details:
> 
> *I had handled the situation with standard rescue protocol. I don't feel I need to explain myself to you.
> At that point he was not planning taking the bird to wild care and I didn't think he was going to.*
> ...



......


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Look, you said the situation was handled and obviously it wasn't. He could not find the FishZole you suggested to buy, the vets were not working out and he asked my thoughts on taking this bird to the Wildlife Center. No one asked you to explain yourself, you were asked for details on what was going on with this bird, you had five words to say, all less than helpful. I am not going to debate this with you, people can form their own opinion.

Karyn


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Dobato, in all fairness to Charis, she spoke with Mike and suggested the Metronidazole, and gave him info on the Wildlife Center. If he couldn't find the Fishzole or Metronidazole, then all he had to do was to post back that he couldn't find them, which he did. And he didn't ask your thoughts on the Wildlife Center, you offered your opinion. She had nothing to do with the vets, as she didn't give him their names to call. She in no way put this bird in danger. She gave him help in a phone call, to get the bird stabilized for the night, and explained how to feed him and other things he would need to know. There was nothing else for her to say about what was going on, as he had just gotten the bird, and hadn't yet decided anything. It was up to Mike to post about how things were going and what he was going to do. He did that. She had no details to give you as to what was going on with this bird, as that was up to Mike, if he choose to do so, and not on her. You are making a lot to do over nothing.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Mmmm...I dunno, here....

Dobato...with all due respect...you should probably have followed your initial leanings and "just left this alone". This thread has now digressed into an unfortunate place, and really...after the way Mike was able to take care of this Pigeon and get him into the right hands, with the help of BOTH you and Charis....
it's hard to argue that things have not ended very well thanks to Mike and all the members of this Forum who chimed in.

To claim that Charis "put the bird's life at risk" is really very specious and does not seem to be supported by the events recorded above... it's a creative interpretation; and quite honestly...surprisingly uncharacteristic of you, if I must say....

Perhaps "leaving this alone" would have been the appropriate course for this particular thread. In the very least, a PM as opposed to calling another member out in on someone else's thread would have been a more appropriate form of communication, IMHO...


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## MikeDougherty (Sep 11, 2011)

Just wanted to chime back in and say that the pigeon is still alive. He is doing pretty good. They call him "Raspy" though I don't know why lol. They have something like 6 other pigeons so at least he has company.


I was also wondering, a lot of pigeons that I feed on a daily basis have white feathers on their face that look sort of like whiskers. They also develop on the top of their heads as well. One pigeon has recently developed these on her face and I am wondering if it is some type of illness? I don't have a picture available right now of this but I can't seem to find any pictures on Google of a random pigeon with the same feature. Could it be from fighting?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

MikeDougherty said:


> Just wanted to chime back in and say that the pigeon is still alive. He is doing pretty good. They call him "Raspy" though I don't know why lol. They have something like 6 other pigeons so at least he has company.
> 
> 
> I was also wondering, a lot of pigeons that I feed on a daily basis have white feathers on their face that look sort of like whiskers. They also develop on the top of their heads as well. One pigeon has recently developed these on her face and I am wondering if it is some type of illness? I don't have a picture available right now of this but I can't seem to find any pictures on Google of a random pigeon with the same feature. Could it be from fighting?


Mike, thanks once again for a positive the update, I am glad to hear "Raspy" is hanging in there and doing pretty good. What you are seeing around the face are small pin feathers that happen during molting time, which happens late summer early fall. These "pins" are just small head feathers covered with a sheath, making then look like pins that will soon shed revealing the small feathers they are covering inside. The birds should go back to looking as they normally do in the next few weeks.

Take care,

Karyn


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## MikeDougherty (Sep 11, 2011)

Hey guys, it has been a little while. Well today there was another pigeon that appeared to have the same problem as the one in the original post. He was actually able to walk around but was definitely not well. I was able to catch him and bring it to the vet and where he will be treated then given to the wildlife center where he will be taken care of. If this one does have a lung infection like the other one, what can cause that? I feed them high quality pigeon feed so I don't think it is anything I am doing right?


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