# Maturing pet feral pigeon advice



## ploumisn (Jun 24, 2014)

Hi all!

Back in late June, I rescued an abandoned 5 day old male squab which I hand fed with syringe etc. All was well until around September when he started maturing (teenaging) which resulted in a terrible change of behavior shifting from a very loving and "always happy to be near me pet" to a lone wolf, biting little monster 

Long story short: What would you folks recommend me to do for these things:

1) How can I turn around this behavior and bring back his old loving character? (or at least a good portion of it)

2) What could have caused this terrible shift of behaviour apart from "teenaging"?

3) Since it is a male, how can I satisfy his breeding instinct and needs? 

4) How to make him fearless of my hands?

These are the 4 main questions that I have for my little pal. I will also give you the full story if you have the patience to read it all or just use it for reference to point out what I am doing wrong or right.

In June, I went for holidays at my vacation home where I found the nest on my balcony with the 2 eggs and the parents taking turns in incubating. The little eggs soon hatched after a few days of my arrival. All was going well until one of the squabs died and the parents were missing for 5 days. I was syringe feeding it in the nest to avoid disturbing and hoping for its parents to come back. They never did so I decided to care for it myself full-time.

Everything was going well. I was syringe feeding him and he was very happy and affectionate towards me and completely indifferent to my wife. My little boy soon learned to fly and the weaning process had already began. He was very intelligent and I didn't sweat at all to teach him to eat seeds on his own. I enjoyed spending time with him which I could see he did as well. At that point, he was very loving and affectionate towards me and ONLY. I stress that because when my wife or any other person would try to come near him with his/her hands he would immediately get angry and start to coo puff dance and bite whereas he would welcome my hands, preen them, allowing me to pet him and rub its head indefinitely and fly towards me and on top of my head. In addition, he was also very keen to "do its thing"  on my hand if I allowed it (which I did quite frequently). At this point, I was VERY happy as it was a sign from him that he bonded with me and that was what I wanted.

During this time, he was 24/7 free to fly all over the house (and me cleaning up the mess 24/7 as well  ) as I didn't have any proper cage there.

Around late August, our vacation was ending so we moved back to our home. From the first day, I had him stay enclosed in the cage that I had for him and only letting him out for a minimum 2 times a day and max 2 hours to prevent him from messing up my home with his poop and to avoid him becoming a prey for my little dogs which roam around the house. For around 2 weeks from relocating him, he was still the bird that I described above. Then, all hell broke lose. 

Initially, he became less depended on me by only occasionally flying on my head and giving "the weird looks" on my hands if they came close to him. Then, the weird looks got an addition of cooing, puff dancing etc and then biting, if he is on one of his favorite roosting places. Not to mention how protective he has become of his cage! If I get my hands close to the cage he does all that. If I try to get my hands inside, good god, he does all that plus LITERALLY throwing himself at my hand with full force! If he could use a weapon on me, it would certainly be a damn Nuke! 

At this very moment, he won't even allow me to get my hands close to him at all. He will 80% attack me and 20% avoid my hands when he is on one of his favorite roosting places and he will 90% avoid my hands if he is not on such a place, either by flying away or walking quickly. 

The only love that I still get from the bird is the occasional fly and land on top of my head plus some preening on my hand if I hand feed him when he is very hungry. In addition, the only "solid" and persisting love that I get from him is some sort of moaning/calling sound whenever he can hear but cannot see me since the house I currently live in is big. He will start walking up and down his cage making a fuss trying to get out if he cant see me. If I come close, all is well. After all that though, its the same old usual aggression. 

Seeing how our "relationship" started and how it is now, I am dazzled and left to wonder: Ok, the "teenaging" process does change the birds behavior to an extent, but can it really be so big of a change that his love has turned to hatred? Therefore, I am thinking that I did or doing something wrong but cannot figure out what! That is why I gave you this full story so that you can pinpoint the possible mistake easier. 

My suspicion lies in the fact that I am not addressing his breeding instinct. However, How am I supposed to do that for a male? I read threads about how to address a female pigeon's such needs (get her a nest or materials, imitate a sexual intercourse, let her lay eggs and incubate them etc etc) but not a single one for a male. 

Finally, my last suspicion lies in the fact that he is no longer free to fly all over the house. Since he was used to that from hatch day 1, would he be feeling angry with me by keeping him most of the day in the cage? Plus, the in and out process, which I believe matters is this: I open the cage door and talk him out, which he does promptly. When its time to go in, I grab him gently and place him inside. Could he be associating me negatively by placing him in the cage? I dunno...

This bird means a lot for me and frankly, seeing him turn into such an ungrateful little *@#*$ I am very sad and disappointed. I want to turn this around and I need your help! 

If you managed to read all this, thank you very very much in advance for any help that you can give me!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Pigeons are flock birds and are generally happier with other pigeons. I'm sure he is not happy being in a cage by himself all day, especially as that is not what he is used to. As far as him being territorial of his cage, well that is normal. As far as your hands, that is normal also, as that is what picks him up and puts him back in his cage. If he is viewing you as his mate, then he expects that you should be able to be ushered back to a nest and lay eggs for him. He isn't ungrateful, as he really doesn't understand that he has anything to be grateful for, and birds just don't see things that way. Each has his own personality, but generally they are happier living as a pigeon and having a mate. It's just the normal way of things.


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## ploumisn (Jun 24, 2014)

Hey jay thanks for answering  I wasn't able to respond earlier as I was away for a while.

Well, I see that pigeons have their way of how they see things around them and can also understand that every single one is unique in terms of character. However, seeing so many videos and stories of pet pigeon owners and seeing how lovely and sweet their pigeons are just... makes me jealous!  Plus make me wondering what am I missing...



Jay3 said:


> As far as him being territorial of his cage, well that is normal. As far as your hands, that is normal also, as that is what picks him up and puts him back in his cage.


That must be true as he seems to be having issues with just my hands! When I get my face close to the cage he remains calms and makes a ?grunt? sound of some kind repeatedly; if I do the same he keeps responding until I stop.



Jay3 said:


> If he is viewing you as his mate, then he expects that you should be able to be ushered back to a nest and lay eggs for him.


If he does see me as his mate, shouldn't he be welcoming me in his territory instead of trying to nuke me? I'm having a hard time understanding what he wants :S

What would you suggest doing for this case? I was thinking of getting him some nesting material in the cage + some hard boiled eggs later to see if that would work. Would that be a good idea? Also, would normal chicken eggs do for that matter or would I have to get special dummy eggs of smaller size?

Also, in terms of easing up, will he ever do? I mean, he is probably in teen-rage mode at the moment hence his aggressiveness but as times go by, will I see any improvement? I don't expect him to become as when he was a baby, but will he ever mellow a bit?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

He does welcome you into his territory. He likes having your face near him. He doesn't see your hands as being part of you. They are a separate entity. LOL. 

I don't think eggs are going to work for a male pigeon. Even a female would know she didn't lay them. Besides, then he would expect you to help sit on them. HeHe!

He will either outgrow it or not. All pigeons have different personalities, but most are just happier being with other pigeons. I wouldn't keep one as a pet as I think it's mean to keep them caged up by themselves with no interaction with others like them. I did have a pet pigeon for several years who lived inside, but he was disabled and couldn't live in the loft with the others. That was different. I always felt bad for him though, even though he got attention and was out of cage a lot. Just not the same as having his own mate and living with others. 
My inside pigeon was awful when you reached into the cage for him, but once he was out, he was fine, and would sit in my hand for hours if I let him.

Try giving him chopped up unsalted peanuts. He won't know what they are at first, so mix some into his feed. Eventually he will try them. Once he does, he should love them, and will rush to you when you show him that you have them. This could get him coming to you again and bonding more. But remember he is a pigeon, and they are all different. We have to accept them on their terms, not ours. If you want devotion or love that you can count on always being there, you need to get a puppy. Birds are just not like that.


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## ploumisn (Jun 24, 2014)

Jay3 said:


> He does welcome you into his territory. He likes having your face near him. He doesn't see your hands as being part of you. They are a separate entity. LOL.


LOL indeed  now that is something I didn't know. Still though, its mysterious because before his teen-rage rolled in, he absolutely loved my hands. You know, preening them, sitting on them, mating with them, not minding being handled by them etc etc... Wasn't he seeing them as a separate entity back then?



Jay3 said:


> I don't think eggs are going to work for a male pigeon. Even a female would know she didn't lay them. Besides, then he would expect you to help sit on them. HeHe!


hmm.. However if I did give him a nest bowl of some kind and materials for it, that would be a start don't you agree? Just a thought though. Maybe I could give it chance and let you know of the results!

That is something that I've been looking for all over the internet but can't find anything relevant unfortunately  It would be interesting to hear other peoples' stories with male pet pigeons in how they address this matter. There must be someone! 



Jay3 said:


> He will either outgrow it or not. All pigeons have different personalities, but most are just happier being with other pigeons. I wouldn't keep one as a pet as I think it's mean to keep them caged up by themselves with no interaction with others like them.


Then I hope he'll outgrow it hehe! Indeed though, I would love to find him a pigeon mate and perhaps set up my own small-scale aviary at some point. The bad thing is that pigeon keeping is very uncommon to say the least if not extremely rare; at least where I live. If it was different, I would simply walk into a local aviary and purchase a young one that still needs syringe feeding.

Since you mentioned food and peanuts, another issue that I have with my feathered friend is that he is VERY picky with his food! He will only eat a very limited range of seeds! Currently, from most favorite to least, he eats oat seeds, canary mix, wheat seeds and rarely some vitamin powderish kind of food. Corn? No. unpopped pop corn? No. Cracked wheat? No. White peas? No. (+another 3 or 4 kind of foods) He wont even eat chopped unsalted peanuts that you mentioned. I read from a lot of people that pigeons absolutely love them but mine refuse to eat anything else that the 4 things listed above.

He always tries everything that I give him but he just simply drops it. I tried a method mentioned somewhere in PT where you fill its bowl with the mix that he should eat and then let him get really hungry until he is forced to eat the refused food thus learning to eat other stuff. Mine was just stubborn and would rather stay hungry than eat it. So much that I couldn't bear it and just gave him the food he desires. I tried that 3 or 4 times. All failed...

Any ideas on that?

P.S. Sorry for always replying in walls of text! I can hardly keep my self from writing and writing and writing. Plus I like/prefer giving as much detail as possible to the things I say so that I am understood completely


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

ploumisn said:


> LOL indeed  now that is something I didn't know. Still though, its mysterious because before his teen-rage rolled in, he absolutely loved my hands. You know, preening them, sitting on them, mating with them, not minding being handled by them etc etc... Wasn't he seeing them as a separate entity back then?
> 
> Your hands weren't picking him up then to leave him in a cage, and they were a source of food, which is what he was doing in preening your fingers..............looking for food.
> 
> ...


.......................................................................................................


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## ploumisn (Jun 24, 2014)

Good points. So just to recap:

For the food "pickyness" I should simply persist and let him feel hungry enough until he eats the food he refuses.

For the nesting idea, you are probably right. I don't expect much to happen so I will merely just introduce a small nest like basket and see how he reacts. 

For his general heightened aggression, I will just have to be patient and hope for him to outgrow it. 

For the fear of hands, I will have to accept it and/or maybe try to mellow that a bit with hand feeding him and/or seeing to an alternative way for the in/out process so that he don't associate my hands with a negative thing (putting him in)

In general, I will just have to adapt to his behavior. Like you said: it's on their terms not ours, and you're totally right. I never thought of it this way 

I will attempt to implement the tips you gave me over the coming days and hopefully, I will have good news to report. 

Thank you very much again for all the guidance! Ill post back the results near the end of the month!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I think if you can get him to try peanuts, or safflower seed, which they normally like a lot. Just not a lot on either, as they are high in fat. Find out what his favorite treat would be, and offer it only from your hand. Eventually he should see your hands as something good, that offers treats. This has worked for me for a long time, even with birds that are very unfriendly in the beginning. I have a loft of rescues, and most are not people friendly when they arrive. Most do however, come around in time, but not all.


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## ploumisn (Jun 24, 2014)

Jay3 said:


> I think if you can get him to try peanuts, or safflower seed, which they normally like a lot. Just not a lot on either, as they are high in fat. Find out what his favorite treat would be, and offer it only from your hand. Eventually he should see your hands as something good, that offers treats. This has worked for me for a long time, even with birds that are very unfriendly in the beginning. I have a loft of rescues, and most are not people friendly when they arrive. Most do however, come around in time, but not all.


Great. Sounds even better than simply feeding him any kind of food. 

As for the in/out process, I've been thinking to include my hands for both in and out. Since he associates my hands with in only, would you think that it would somehow balance things on that matter if I take him out as well? Or would that be an necessary intrusion of his space thus making more weary of my hands?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

ploumisn said:


> Great. Sounds even better than simply feeding him any kind of food.
> 
> As for the in/out process, I've been thinking to include my hands for both in and out. Since he associates my hands with in only, would you think that it would somehow balance things on that matter if I take him out as well? Or would that be an necessary intrusion of his space thus making more weary of my hands?


You will feed treats by hand, but continue to keep a good mixture in his dish. And don't feed so many treats that he can leave his feed mix uneaten. 

Yes, I think taking him out with your hands may balance it out somewhat, even if you do get bitten or wing slapped. LOL. I think he may calm down some as he grows up a bit, but as I mentioned...............they are all different. And with birds, it is on their terms.


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## mikis343 (Nov 26, 2013)

All pigeons are territorial of thier cage. If you let him out more to explore he won't think he has to claim evrything around him as his and defend it from you. Once he is comfortable with his surroundings and has seen evrything there is to see outside the cage he will feel less overwhelmed and comfortable with his surroundings. He also dosent want you to put him back in the cage. 
Try putting him in for about a minute and then taking him out again and After about 10 minutes put him back again for a minute and then take him out again and keep repeating this process. eventual the might realize that evrytime you touch him it dosent mean playtime is over for the day. Try feeding him from your hands at feeding time instead of a bowl so he will get more used to them and associates them with good things. Try training him to do simple tricks like fly to you on command or spin around. You can look up more tricks for birds and how to teach them. There mainly for parrots but pigeons can learn most of them too. Work with him for a short amount of time each day on the tricks. It is very fun and mentally stimulating for the bird and often causes them to forget any anger they had towards you that made him want to bite you. Hope this helps.


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## Ledanator (Aug 14, 2010)

I think I had a really similar situation to you. I found a 12 day old baby feral outside, hand fed him and he was sweet adorable and wonderful. Then suddenly he became (to put it crudely) a little ****, haha. He became really territorial, very aggressive, and not loving at all. I was really distraught, we had a great relationship before! 

I came on here to ask what I could do about that, and I was told that pigeons can go through basically an awful teenager phase. They get rebellious and all that and then go back to being a loving little adorable cutie after a few months to a year. I also kept him in a cage nearly all day because he pooped too much. 

Anyway, he's now 4 years old. I have connected with a lot of pigeon people as well as an awesome organization called Mickacoo. And learned a lot, so let me answer your questions:

1) He's going through a change, and he needs to be able to get rid of some energy. I would a good size cage for a single pigeon is about 30x25x40". I have a large size dog crate, it works great it's big but not gigantic for my smaller apartment. He's also going to have to come out more. I bring Ragweed (my bird) out for about 8 hours a day. Basically as soon as I get home he's out of the cage. I know some people cant do this, and you mentiond dogs, but even if he just gets a room to hang out in for more than a couple hours he will probably improve a lot. And here's the secret for poop: https://www.facebook.com/BirdDiaper That thing is so fricken useful! No more stray poops! And actually, getting Ragweed used to wearing it really helped him know I was the boss. When he's wearing it he kinda knows that he's in my territory. He's still a jerk sometimes but it's much more acceptable.

2) That's what the change is, it's becoming a teen. I read on here that Pigeons will just go through this change, and they may come out of it, or they may not. Ragweed was a jerk for 2 years. But actually he didn't get his big cage and as much outside time until he was about 2 anyway, so I really think that's what helped him. 

3) Ragweed is super energetic, and has a lot of male needs, haha. What has helped him is that I have a few toys for him (balls with bells and such) and it really helps him get rid of excess energy. You can give males nesting materials too and they will satisfy themselves with building a nest, but what males do is they try to attract a female. It's really heartbreaking to watch Ragweed try so hard but get no return, which is why I'm in the market for a girlfriend for him. Like other users have mentioned, pigeons are social birds, and they also mate for life! If you're okay with it, it might be a good idea to try to find him a lady, he will be a lot happier.

4) Making him fearless of your hands, I'm assuming you're talking about when he's in the cage and he runs away from you or fights you. I'm sorry to say that this will not change. His cage is HIS cage, that's his one bit of territory and he will defend it. Unless you are his mate he will not let anyone in. Ragweed is a huge jerk about his cage, the only thing I got him to agree to is when I grab his food bowl in the morning to feed him, he'll accept a couple pats but then chase me off. 
Outside of his cage though he's not really afraid of my hands. If he sees me coming to pick him up or mess with him he will usually just stop and coo until I get him. Sometime's he'll run away though because he doesn't want to be bothered. But this depends, pigeons have about the same mental capacity as a 3 year old. And each pigeon has their own personality.

Also, something that I'm not sure if it is relevant. Last Christmas was the first Christmas that I had to leave Ragweed with a stranger while I went home. I was gone for almost 2 weeks, and when I got back he was like a baby again, he was so happy to see me, I'm pretty sure he thought I died. And after that he seems to have gotten a lot sweeter. It's almost like he's saying "I'm so sorry I was a jerk! Please dont leave again!" 

That "moaning" or as I like to call it "honking" is his nesting call. It means "hey, this is a good place for a nest!" and it's meant for potential ladies.


Anyway! I hope this helps a bit. I know exactly how you're feeling, but what I have found is that he probably won't go back to being a really sweet baby. I would definitely let him out more, he needs to explore and fly around. Also I've met a lot of male pigeons. I've met a couple that have chosen their human as their mate and they defend them fiercely, and I have met a few who are sweeter than Ragweed.


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## Ledanator (Aug 14, 2010)

ploumisn said:


> If he does see me as his mate, shouldn't he be welcoming me in his territory instead of trying to nuke me? I'm having a hard time understanding what he wants :S


He might be frustrated with you. Ragweed is really frustrated with me for not laying eggs for him. Obviously I am not capable of that though. 



> What would you suggest doing for this case? I was thinking of getting him some nesting material in the cage + some hard boiled eggs later to see if that would work. Would that be a good idea? Also, would normal chicken eggs do for that matter or would I have to get special dummy eggs of smaller size?


You'll need to get fake dummy eggs. Chicken eggs are WAAAY too big, he wont be fooled. And pigeons sit on eggs for a few weeks before giving up, so no rotten eggs please. But, I've only heard of people giving fake eggs to a pigeon couple. I'm not sure he will be convinced that you layed eggs for him if you just plop them into a nest. So I'm not sure that's a good idea. You can get him nesting materials though, and a nest box. I've heard that pine needles are great.


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