# Color Chart



## Matt Bell

This goes out to all of us whom are consumed by genetics of our birds, I am currently working on putting together a color chart of dominance, one in order to see through some things that other breeders may tell one when they are purchasing a bird, and a second reason to tell in a free loft whether or not there was another cock bird playing around, and the third reason is just for me to play around with some guessing games with the birds. Now, I knew this would be a heck of a project to take on by myself, so I figured I would ask and see if maybe this project has already been done. If not, maybe we can make this a 'group' project if you know what I mean.


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## c.hert

Thats a real good idea in my opinion and start off with Mary of Exerter for she is really good at the gene and color of pigeons. c.hert


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## MaryOfExeter

There are a few genetics websites that are pretty good, but I'm not sure if its in a chart, just more like a bunch of picking through paragraphs to get what you want. Slobberknocker Lofts used to have a lot of good charts showing the offspring of 'this' mated with 'that', but that page isn't available anymore (last time I checked). Frank Mosca's site has some punnett squares too that serve the same purpose.
There's no reason why we can't have a PT version of it all though  Picking apart all the other sites and bunching it up here in one spot. I can think of some mating results and dominance lists off the top of my head.


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## Matt Bell

Ok, awesome guys, I will work on posting what I have already tomorrow afternoon, and by all means be sure to check it and then add to it, don't want to put up anything which is incorrect.


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## c.hert

Sounds like a lot of work but would be worth it and sorry I spelled your name wrong--
MaryOfExeter. c.hert


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## sreeshs

When it comes to the colors, its simple upto the point of red, blue, brown. Once the modifiers and other genes like the spread, recessive reds, dilutes and their combinations start to act, it becomes confusing, complicated and at the same time more interesting. Frankly most of the time many genetic comments from our genetic gurus are bouncers for me 

Most of the websites don't emphasis on the color factor but rather the pattern or the combination of color and pattern. I would love to see a website with deep dive information on the colors. This site below was one which I found covered the colors in a simple yet detailed manner, could be usefull

http://www.national-federation.co.uk/simple_genetics.htm


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## george simon

sreeshs said:


> When it comes to the colors, its simple upto the point of red, blue, brown. Once the modifiers and other genes like the spread, recessive reds, dilutes and their combinations start to act, it becomes confusing, complicated and at the same time more interesting. Frankly most of the time many genetic comments from our genetic gurus are bouncers for me
> 
> Most of the websites don't emphasis on the color factor but rather the pattern or the combination of color and pattern. I would love to see a website with deep dive information on the colors. This site below was one which I found covered the colors in a simple yet detailed manner, could be usefull
> 
> http://www.national-federation.co.uk/simple_genetics.htm


*Hi Sreeshs,, That is A VERY good site and I feel it covers the color thing very well.The thing that most people don't understand is that MODIFIERS are not colors themslelf but they do effect color and change it. *GEORGE


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## rackerman

*I'll bet Kieth C could help here, he breeds for colors if I am not mistaking?*


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## Matt Bell

Ok guys, from what I understand of genetics, the pigeon has 3 colors, in order of dominance, its Red, Blue, and Brown. Thus this is what I have come up with so far, please look at it and if its incorrect let me and us know.

Red Cock X Red Hen = Red Cocks, and any possible color hen as we don't know the 2nd color gene of the sire.

Blue Cock X Red Hen= Red Cocks and Blue or Brown Hens as we don't know the 2nd color gene of the sire.

Brown Cock X Red Hen=Red Cocks and Brown hens

Red Cock X Blue Hen= Red or Blue Cocks and any color hen as we don't know the 2nd color gene of the sire.

Blue Cock X Blue Hen= Blue Cocks and Blue or Brown hens as we don't know the 2nd color gene of the sire.

Brown Cock X Blue Hen= Blue Cocks and Brown Hens

Red Cock X Brown Hen=Any Color Cocks and Any Color Hens as we don't know the 2nd color gene of the sire.

Blue Cock X Brown Hen= Blue or Brown Cocks and Blue or Brown Hens as we don't know the 2nd Color gene of the sire.

Brown Cock X Brown Hen= ALL young will be Brown.


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## Matt Bell

As I understand it the pigeons have 4 possible patterns, in order of dominance they are T Checker, Checker, Barred, and Barless. Thus we have the following possibilities I believe:

T Cheq X T Cheq= Any possible pattern as we don't know the 2nd pattern of the parents.

T Cheq X Cheq= Any possible pattern as we don't know the 2nd pattern of the parents

T Cheq X Bar= Any possible pattern as we don't know the 2nd pattern of the parents

T Cheq X Barless= Any possible pattern as we don't know the 2nd pattern of the parents

Check X Check= Anything other than T Cheq

Check X Bar= Anything other than T Cheq

Check X Barless= Anything other than T Cheq

Bar X Bar= Bar or Barless only

Bar X Barless= Bar or Barless only

Barless X Barless= Barless only



Now, I just want to mention that it would obviously be possible to figure out the 2nd pattern gene and the cocks 2nd color gene many times by doing test matings with the least dominant of the genes, which would be brown hen, and barless pigeons. But, for my purposes of doing this, often times you can't test matings.


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## sreeshs

All fine up to now  towards the real world, it gets more complex.

As George mentioned, the visual appearance of the pigeon will get affected by the modifiers namely the spread, dilute, recessive red/white. etc. Sometimes I think what would have happened if it was 3 sets of genes instead of the 2 sets


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## Wingsonfire

This one works pretty good?
http://www.national-federation.co.uk/Pigeon_Calculator_Advanced.htm


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## Henk69

There are more genetic calculators in progress...

If I can help with databases, php, javascript etc...


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