# red cock x white hen, = all white?



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

was wondering about the white being domanant, is white considerd a dilute? and would the off spring be all white from this pair?


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

spirit wings said:


> was wondering about the white beign domanant, is white considerd a dilute? and would the off spring be all white from this pair?


Red is dominant. I don't KNOW about white, but I would make a wild guess and say you'll get reds from this pair. Could be a RED bird with a little bit of white or a white bird with a little bit of red or anything in between...........
I don't know why I answered.......LOL......someone who ACTUALLY knows what the heck they're talking about will let you know......


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Lovebirds said:


> Red is dominant. I don't KNOW about white, but I would make a wild guess and say you'll get reds from this pair. Could be a RED bird with a little bit of white or a white bird with a little bit of red or anything in between...........
> I don't know why I answered.......LOL......someone who ACTUALLY knows what the heck they're talking about will let you know......


well it was nice of you to do so...lol..., I really like the red and wish to get more, I looked up colors on slobberknockers but white is not listed, unless white means dilute..., me so confused.


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

spirit wings said:


> well it was nice of you to do so...lol..., I really like the red and wish to get more, I looked up colors on slobberknockers but white is not listed, unless white means dilute..., me so confused.


White is actually not a "color"........as far as color genes go. _(I think)_ It's a lack of color. _(I think)_ My understanding is that all white birds are SOME color genetically, but lack of pigment in the feathers makes them appear white. _(I think)_


----------



## Ed (Sep 18, 2008)

I bet you a million dollars if you breed a white pigeon with a red pigeon you will get baby pigeons 
hahahahaha


----------



## Ed (Sep 18, 2008)

Lovebirds said:


> White is actually not a "color"........as far as color genes go. _(I think)_ It's a lack of color. _(I think)_ My understanding is that all white birds are SOME color genetically, but lack of pigment in the feathers makes them appear white. _(I think)_


I have read the same thing a couple of times while doing pigeon color research


----------



## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

Lovebirds said:


> Red is dominant. I don't KNOW about white, but I would make a wild guess and say you'll get reds from this pair. Could be a RED bird with a little bit of white or a white bird with a little bit of red or anything in between...........
> I don't know why I answered.......LOL......someone who ACTUALLY knows what the heck they're talking about will let you know......


 Hi RENEE, YOU ARE CORRECT,also yes white is not a color.................SPIRT WTNGS white is not dilute. ...GEORGE


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

StoN3d said:


> I bet you a million dollars if you breed a white pigeon with a red pigeon you will get baby pigeons
> hahahahaha


 alot of help you are.


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

george simon said:


> Hi RENEE, YOU ARE CORRECT,also yes white is not a color.................SPIRT WTNGS white is not dilute. ...GEORGE


Thank you Renee and George, and Ed, I guess.LOL.. perhaps I will have more red figs in the loft afterall, and Im glad I know now dilute is a color and white is not. o


----------



## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

spirit wings said:


> Thank you Renee and George, and Ed, I guess.LOL.. perhaps I will have more red figs in the loft afterall, and Im glad I know now dilute is a color and white is not. o


Dilute isn't a color either. It's a name for the way a color shows it's self.


----------



## Ed (Sep 18, 2008)

Dilute...
its what they do to my drinks at the bar sometimes 
hahaha ok I will stop now


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Lovebirds said:


> Dilute isn't a color either. It's a name for the way a color shows it's self.


well crap, thought I had it down, dilute of a color....get it.


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

StoN3d said:


> Dilute...
> its what they do to my drinks at the bar sometimes
> hahaha ok I will stop now


Thats why I stick with beer...


----------



## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Dilute isn't a color, but it is a gene  It's what causes reds to be yellow, brown to be khaki, and blue to be silver.

White isn't caused by the dilute gene; the only similarity being both white and dilute effects the thickness/length of down on the babies.

There's a lot of forms of white, and depending on what kinds of white the parent carries, the babies may have a lot or a little colored feathers. Chances are, you'll have at least a little red showing in the babies


----------



## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Figs are loaded with recessive whites*



spirit wings said:


> was wondering about the white beign domanant, is white considerd a dilute? and would the off spring be all white from this pair?


My figs are loaded with recessive white. I have yet to find a pair that does not throw whites. This is the most likely reason for your white bird to be white. As others have said, underneath the white is a color. No way to know what it is without test breeding.

I have blues, blacks, ash reds, ash yellows, all of which have produced recessive white young. It takes both parents to either carry recessive white or to be recessive white to produce a recessive white as it is a simple recessive gene.

All that said, if the male is ash red and is not split for another color, all the young will be ash reds, even if they happen to be recessive whites. The color underneath will be ash red, it just won't show. Half the young in a mating such as this, should be normal colored and half should be recessive whites. The normals produced will also carry recessive white in their genes.

There are also a multitude of other reasons to produce white pigeons but in figs, recessive white is the number one reason.

Bill


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

jbangelfish said:


> My figs are loaded with recessive white. I have yet to find a pair that does not throw whites. This is the most likely reason for your white bird to be white. As others have said, underneath the white is a color. No way to know what it is without test breeding.
> 
> I have blues, blacks, ash reds, ash yellows, all of which have produced recessive white young. It takes both parents to either carry recessive white or to be recessive white to produce a recessive white as it is a simple recessive gene.
> 
> ...


oh boy, so depending on whats behind them, will determine the color/s or lack there of. so I could get red. or dilutes from them. or all white. well what do you mean on the last sentence, I already have 4 whites so was trying for some reds. oh thank you Bill and Becky, I appreciate your help.


----------



## bluecheck (Aug 17, 2006)

Hi all,

I figured I'd take some time to answer this question because I likey won't be around for a while after this - got some family issues that need dealing with.

1) White - if it's a bull eyed white, it's recessive.

2) White - if it's a colored eyed white, then it's likely either a combination white created from grizzle (tiger grizzle, or classic grizzle and usually ash-red)

3) White does NOT affect the baby's down. If it does, then there is something hidden by the white that's doing that, e.g., you may have a white hiding dilution or almond.

4) Let's assume your white is a bull-eyed white and hence a homozygous recessive white. If the ash-red sire happens to heterozygous for recessive white, then you could get 50% of the young in both sexes that are recessive whites. If the ash-red sire is NOT heterozygous for recessive white, then all the young will be colored, though some may be pied or splash if the white is hiding some sort of piebald factors as well.

5) As noted, white is not a "color". That's because white is actually caused by there being no pigment in the feather. So a white could actually be a black bird; a blue ck; an almond; a recessive red; a T-pattern ash-red, etc. We simply can not tell because a white could be anything under that white overcoat. When we cross it to another bird that doesn't carry recessive white, we can tell what the white parent is from whatever young we begin to get from various rounds. 

http://www.angelfire.com/ga3/pigeongenetics/WHITE.html

Frank


----------



## Queen (Aug 24, 2008)

spirit wings said:


> was wondering about the white being dominant, is white considered a dilute? and would the off spring be all white from this pair?


Hi Spirit, I have a red cock bird and a white hen and they only throw reds and chocolates

Below Father and baby










Below Some of his their young


----------



## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Do you get brown cocks and hens?*



Queen said:


> Hi Spirit, I have a red cock bird and a white hen and they only throw reds and chocolates
> 
> Below Father and baby
> 
> ...


If so, that means that mom is recessive white but her base color is brown. Either way, dad is ash red split for brown. If the browns are all hens, it is all dad's doing.

There are lots of recessive whites in homers. As Frank says, the bull eyes on the whites mean recessive white and not some other form of white, in most if not all cases.

Bill


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

this is all very interesting, Thanks Bluecheck, you explained things well in a way I could understand, I think I will let this pair hatch some babies and see what happens, the white is a bull eye, but not a clue what is behind her. so it ought to be interesting. Queen that is really neat about yor birds, you just never know what those whites are hiding.


----------



## Queen (Aug 24, 2008)

your right all the chocolates are hens. There will be no more as the father was taken by a 6 ft python snake. Can't believe we missed one gap in the loft when sealing it for snakes. We have had to relocate 4 snakes this year.


----------



## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Remind me never to go to Australia! 6 foot snake?? Yikes


----------



## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*That's too bad*



Queen said:


> your right all the chocolates are hens. There will be no more as the father was taken by a 6 ft python snake. Can't believe we missed one gap in the loft when sealing it for snakes. We have had to relocate 4 snakes this year.


At least that's one thing that I don't have to worry about where I live. Hawks and raccons are the number one problems around here.

At any rate, you may have some young cocks that are just like dad and split for brown. Ash red cocks that carry brown will have brown flecks, usually in the tail and wings, sometimes all over, almost almond looking. If the flecks are black, the bird is split for blue. If it has no flecks, it is either a hen or not split for blue or black.

Bill


----------



## opalbob (Jan 2, 2011)

*re: red white cross*

red is domiant but there is a lot of colors that can create white, for instance two ash red grizzles mated togather will produce an all white bird colored eyes there is allso ressesive white, frill stencil white. you will probably get some red pieds, reds, and whites


----------

