# What are these?



## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

I got these two new birds im interested in finding out about. they are nest mates.

I think this is a blue grizzle with sooty 

















Silver grizzle, thats all i know


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

I agree with your assessments.

The first looks to be a blue bar, sooty grizzle, and looking at the feet a form of dirty could also be involved (recent research seems to suggest that more than one dirty gene exists).

The silver would be genetically described as a dilute blue (dark) check grizzle, maybe sooty as well, but it is impossible to be sure without testing.


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

Alright thanks!, I'll have to look at the feet tomorrow. Maybe I'll take a picture also. They are a little pale, wasn't in 100% condition. So I guess sooty doesn't show up well if at all on checks and T patterns? I like the sooty gene a lot, i think it really makes the blue look nice.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I agree, I do think dirty may be involved with the first one. My sooty grizzles are lighter in color, BUT modifiers can vary.

The second one I also agree but with the light skin, I'd say it is slate. That means both parents were carrying it and it also means its nest mate could be slate or carrying it. Check the outter tail feathers to see if the albescent strip is still visible.

Yeah sooty doesn't show up nearly as well in checks, especially the heavier checks and velvets.


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

Oops I forgot to note that before, thought I did. Both birds have the white strip.


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## sport14692 (Jan 3, 2011)

*Smart girl*

MaryOfExeter,
How do you know so much about pigeons? You amaze me all the time


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

Here is a different blue bar grizzle, its a mix bird, sadly when the guy came by to pick up all my tumblers and mixes i had this one flying, hopefully he comes by and takes this one, but its is the lighter blue like you were talking about










The feet look pretty normal, i have a black tumbler (genetically black with black tail) but looks like it also is dirty cause it have blacker feet, not that i think it does anything on a black bird, but here are two pictures of the feet of the blue bar sooty grizzle

They look pretty normal to me, maybe the sooty can make it darker?

















Here is another shot of this bird, like i said he said they were nest mates, so this one having sooty wouldn't be a surprise.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Well, then slate is not involved. I guess the silver bird just has light skin for another reason.

Dirty birds start out with black feet but they turn red as they get older. The feet color is only a good indicator when they are squeakers. But the feathers will stay darker, as well as the beak/nails.


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

alright, so the first one is definitely sooty, and probably also is dirty, and the second one could be sooty but doesnt look dirty. Ill guess ill have to see what the offsprings look like when i pair them up with others. I would like to pair that blue bar grizzle with another bar to get more good sootys. Thanks for the help.


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## ippychick (Sep 19, 2007)

Beautiful coloring..


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

If these were nest mates, is it possible to determine sex since one is not diluted.They cant both be cocks or both be hens right?


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

It depends on the parents.

Dilute cock x intense hen = All dilute hens, all intense cocks
Split dilute cock x intense hen = All intense cocks, 50% dilute hens, 50% intense hens
Split dilute cock x dilute hen = 50% split dilute cocks, 50% dilute cocks, 50% dilute hens, 50% intense hens


Yes I realize that's a lot of 50% but I'm counting each sex separately, LOL.


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

Alright. I wanted to pair it up and either get more of the same or just blue bars with sootys. My brother won't let me mess with his precious blue bar. All I got to breed it with would be a silver bar or silver bar grizzle. I wonder what a silver bar grizzle with sooty and dirty would look like, but then I would get some **** grizzles which I don't want. Maybe a black. I'm obviously trying to breed for specific things but I guess that's not always going to work out.


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