# Wild Doves, Ravens, and Pigeons



## Prizm (Jun 28, 2006)

Two things happened yesterday that I'd like to share and ask your input on. We're finally having some nice and sunny spring mornings, so I brought my two rabbits outside in our fenced yard and let Target stretch his wings. He perches on the pole which supports the clothes lines, and occasionally ventures to the ground to hunt for seeds, but other than that, he doesn't display much desire to fly away. In fact, he follows me inside and returns to his cage when it's time to go in. He ignored all the birds chattering in the trees, but when a wild dove flew by, making a moaning sound, he watched it with much interest. It was smaller than a pigeon and predominantly white colored, and I think Target would hit on her if they got to know eachother better if he wasn't afraid of flying up to the tree where it perched. I supervised all the animals to keep them out of trouble, but later that day, I let him out for a moment alone. When I went outside a minute later, I found that he had ventured to the top of the roof--higher then he ever perched before! He is a real chicken when it comes to perching on unfamilliar perches--I had to "land" on the clothes-line pole with my own hand before he'd set foot on it, so I think he was up there because he was looking for the dove! (Would the dove accept a pigeon as a mate?) 

Now for the raven part of my story. Our little furry backyard outing was inturrupted by small flock of ravens who came "cawing" to our tree. The rabbits freaked, Lionid, the amazing cat who thinks he's a squirrel and protects my little petting zoo of pets from neighborhood cats had his little ears flattened, and poor Target seemed to shrink in size. I opened the door and let the bunnies flee to their cage near the living room--But Target wouldn't move. When I approached, he frantically fluttered out of reach. I was afraid the ravens might try to hurt him, so I wound up grabbing him by the tail feathers and floofed him inside. (Ah..Target pecked me hard later that day--mystery solved!) Was I right in the assumption that ravens are dangerous? They seem to enjoy taunting the cat, but I wasn't sure if they would hurt the bird.


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## PigeonQueen (Aug 13, 2006)

HI Prizm, I think you were right to be concerned about your pigeon and did right by bringing him in. I have not seen a Raven attack a pigeon, but I have seen other crows attacking pigeons and badly injuring them. Also my observation is that pigeons fear crows and respond accordingly as your piggie did. He stayed quite still which is what piggies do when they sense there is danger. Whereas piggies in flocks will take off all together at the same time as there is safety in numbers, and less of a chance of one pigeon being attacked. Glad your piggie is safe.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Ravens and crows are pretty closely related so I will assume they will eat some of the same things. My experience is that crows seem to chase hawks away, so people assume they are friends to pigeons. I think the truth of the matter is that crows will eat young squabs and birds injured by hawks. I think the whole purpose of them chasing after these birds of prey, is to get them to release whatever they may have caught so that the crows can eat it.


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## naturegirl (Nov 7, 2005)

Crows and Ravens are both Carnivore birds and will definately eat pigeons and rabbits. Matter of fact last year I was about 1 minute too late from saving this poor baby ferel pigeon approx. 2 weeks old when this excuse my french here damn crow killed it in front of me and when I finally chased the crow 6 feet he dropped and left it but couldn't save the baby. Made me soo mad, I know it is part of the food chain but I don't care to see it. but yes they will eat other birds etc. I think the only difference is the size, crows being 18 inches and ravens being 22-27 inches. Hope this helps

Cindy


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## Prizm (Jun 28, 2006)

Your poor pidge  I'll make sure I bring him in whenever I see one fly by. Last spring, I actually found a chicken and kept it in my house at night and let it out in the yard in the day. The bird was young and bonded with our cat, Leonid, and followed him around everywhere. Leonid liked this bird very much. He'd play with her tail feathers every now and then, but he always kept his claws in and he seemed to protect her from other cats when she was in the yard. In the yard, she never wandered far from him, and Leonid stayed in the yard too, instead of wandering about when I let him out. He stopped hunting songbirds too. I later rehomed the chicken, but I remember the ravens (or perhaps they are crows) would come by and watch. Up in the tree, one crow would often come and "caw" to its flock who would join it and watch in what I interpreted as disbelief.."Is that a cat hanging out with a bird?...Hey, Blackbird. You've gotta SEE this!" ...Maybe they were just hungry but afraid of approaching the cat.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Prizm,

It sounded like a lovely outing had it not been for the Ravens. I am glad your instincts were right on!

I would always be outside with him and very cautious about releasing him. I decided to build mine an aviary because of the fear of hawks, cats, and other predators that frequent my yard since we got pigeons.


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

*Crows and Ravens*

Hi,
Both crows and ravens are opportunistic hunters just like the rest of the jay family. They are omnivores (hunter-gatherers just like our species) and will eat pretty much anything that looks like food, from seeds, insects and other invertebrates to small and or weakened vertebrates. You probably saw crows, they have the "caw" sound. Ravens have more of a "croak" or squeaky door sound. You're right to watch your animals because birds are opportunistic and certainly at this time of year when everyone is starting to nest and lay, protein is vital for the success of their families. 

I feed birds, so to keep the peace in my yard, I have several different feeding stations and offer different foods. That way the doves, finches, chickedees (and like) don't have to watch too closely when the bigger or more aggressive birds come in. The robins and ravens (I get the Chihuahuan raven here) love dry cat food and are waiting every morning for their share. I also have several watering spots. That way there is little friction among the different species. Most of the irate discussions and feather flapping occurs among the same species. Occasionally I get an interested predator species come down to look but I've only seen one taken (that was a grackle). Predators mostly come into my yard during drought and really cold spells.

As an FYI to help you tell between ravens and crows o can't help myself, I'm a casual birder, and never go out without a couple of bird books in the backpack.)
Ravens have a wedge-shaped tail, crows are fan-shaped. These birds are all black from beak to toe, so that's not a lot of help  . Both ravens and crows are good fliers, but ravens rank up there with the vultures and raptors with their ablities to soar on the thermals. Ravens also have stouter bills and in profile the common raven seems to have a bump on it (a "Roman" nose). Crows are more slender and seem to stand up higher on their feet (at least to me) than ravens. There are several crow species in North America but you probably saw the American crow as their range is throughout the US except in the desert Southwest. 

There's two raven species in North America, the common raven (the big raven with the glossy black feathers),and the Chihuahuan raven (about the size of a crow but slightly shaggier in appearance). These ravens have a hint of white at the base of their throat feathers but that's hard to see unless the wind is blowing the feathers or they've ruffled them up. The Chihuahuan raven hangs out in the rangeland of the Southwest US -- west Texas and the High Plains of Texas, Oklahoma, eastern NM and Colorado and down into the Mexican desert. The common raven is found throughout the West, Canada, Alaska, northern US, and along the Applalachian mountains in the east. 

Mary


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## BrianNAmy (Nov 2, 2003)

A _murder_ of Crows or Ravens will usually outwit most other animals they come across; this holds especially true for Ravens who are one of the most highly intelligent birds around. I've met a few up close and personal doing rehab work in Phoenix and can vouch for their intelligence and tell you they will eat anything they can find. Veggies, eggs, meat, as long as it's edible.

Chances are you saw some crows. They're slightly aggressive when it comes down to territorial issues. Compared to a pigeon, I'd be concerned so it was a good thing you brought him in. Typically though, they won't just casually attack another bird without provocation; there are easier targets to go after... like the trash in the garbage can, or the 2 week old road-killed squirrel down the block.

We have a huge flock of Ravens here. Throughout the day they walk hand-in-hand (or is it wing-in wing?) with the wild birds and even the chickens, ducks and turkeys we let roam around. They either go after the left overs we toss out or follow the chickens around and steal their eggs behind their backs, or when we toss out the cracked ones. It's entertaining watching a Raven try to fly off with a duck egg


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Hi BrianNAmy...so nice to see you posting!

I'm sure the site would love to hear of your Oasis adventures if and when you have the time!

HUGS TO ALL

From
Shi & Squeaks


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## ken_sturrock (Aug 6, 2006)

As mentioned above - crows and ravens are different. Yes, I like them because they chase away hawks and other raptors but they do pose a threat to other birds as well. For those interested in ravens and their behavior, there is an outstanding book by Bernd Heinrich called "Mind of the Raven"

http://www.amazon.com/Mind-Raven-In...2102548?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1174954925&sr=1-2

Heinrich references several observations of Ravens killing Pigeons along with many other birds - it's a facinating book.

-Ken


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## Nuke (Mar 26, 2007)

*Ravens & Crows*

Ravens,and crows,along with any other bird in the Corvid Family ( except for the paradise birds found in the South Pacific and New Guinea ) pose a threat to other birds and their eggs and young.But one should not think that they are out to get your birds,they are busy animals and dont just wait outside for you to let your pigeons out.Flitsnowzoom wrote a pretty good post on them.
One way to tell the difference between them is,crows may be all black,but each feather has a white quill and white down.A raven is larger and completely black,the whole feather on a raven is black even the quill and down.


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## Prizm (Jun 28, 2006)

I'm glad I'm so lucky to know people who know so much about birds. Thanks for informing me! ...What about the mourning dove who cooed at Target? It sounds like a stage for a strange hybrid, but could pigeons and mourning doves get together?


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Prizm said:


> I'm glad I'm so lucky to know people who know so much about birds. Thanks for informing me! ...What about the mourning dove who cooed at Target? It sounds like a stage for a strange hybrid, *but could pigeons and mourning doves get together?*


Not under "normal" circumstances and almost never in the wild. Species only tend to interbreed out of necessity and mostly in captivity when forced, otherwise they have plenty of their own kind in the wild to find for mates.


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## Pixy (Mar 29, 2005)

Pigeonpal2002 said:


> Not under "normal" circumstances and almost never in the wild. Species only tend to interbreed out of necessity and mostly in captivity when forced, otherwise they have plenty of their own kind in the wild to find for mates.


has it been done before?


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