# Breeder Suggestions?



## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

I would appreciate any input that would help me with my situation. I raced pigeons on a very limited basis 25 years ago. I am planning on getting back into the sport on a limited basis. I would like to purchase 1 or 2 pairs for breeding. I have seen the ads and web sites of many of the well known breeders, such as Hapyco, Double T, Ganus, Bieche, etc. What I would like is an opinion as to which of these or other breeders which you may recommend? I don't know wether to purchase young birds, yearlings, or breeders. Thanks, Don McGowen.


----------



## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

Hi bbcdon,

Ok when you say getting back in on a limited basis, what do you mean? 

Are you going to specialize? Youngbirds? Oldbirds Or Futurities? reason I ask is it will make a difference to the type or style of bird you will wish to purchase. Probibly going to start an argument but the days of the all round birds are pretty much over. So it is important to know what you want to be able to do with the birds.

Lawman


----------



## learning (May 19, 2006)

I'm staying out of this one!

Dan


----------



## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

Right now due to my neighborhood, I am considering futurities, and one loft racing. So to answer your question, it would be focusing on young birds. Thanks, Don McGowen.


----------



## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

Also, I realize that there are fanciers on this site which have quality birds, so feel free to enter any input. I live in the central valley in California, about half way between Fresno and Bakersfield, about 65 miles from Chic Brooks, the owner of Hapyco Loft. Thanks, Don McGowen.


----------



## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

And as far as funds, I do not want to spend thousands per bird, but hundreds are what I am willing to spend per bird. Thanks, Don McGowen.


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

*Get a Mentor*



bbcdon said:


> I would appreciate any input that would help me with my situation. I raced pigeons on a very limited basis 25 years ago. I am planning on getting back into the sport on a limited basis. I would like to purchase 1 or 2 pairs for breeding. I have seen the ads and web sites of many of the well known breeders, such as Hapyco, Double T, Ganus, Bieche, etc. What I would like is an opinion as to which of these or other breeders which you may recommend? I don't know wether to purchase young birds, yearlings, or breeders. Thanks, Don McGowen.




Hello Don,

I think you ask a very good question, of which it might be possible to get a hundred different answers. None of them 100% right or wrong. This is one of those issues that some people feel very passionate about, and all have some unique perspective. 

How you approach this or any other life type question or choice, like which is better a Chevy or a Ford, will in my opinion, have more of a bearing on the direction you will take, then any factual data or ideas thrown about.

I have some of my own ideas on the subject, but then you should be skeptical of my personal viewpoint, since my opinion will be very biased. I have what you call, an axe to grind. Since I have been known to part with some of my pigeons for ridiculously large amounts of cash, if my wife nags me about the various mortgages I took out, just to purchase hand selected breeding pairs from various Grand Master's. 

My opinion on the subject, is to first obtain, or otherwise surround yourself with a very small number of trusted advisors, and go through a sort of apprenticeship program. I have always felt that this sport is as much an art, as it is a science. And the best way to perfect an art is to work under a master of his trade, and learn it from the ground up. The Internet can be a great place of knowledge, but listening to 200 "professors" at a time, will often result in "information overload", and will more often then not, confuse an issue. 

Having said that, rather then collect a hodge podge of birds here and there.....I would prefer a carefully cultivated family line....faults and all...and start from there. 

If you would like to hear how I approached the issue, you can go to pigeon radio and go to the archives and click on...74. Warren Smith - Smith Family Loft 1/23/07 this address will take you there: http://www.pigeonradio.com/pr/


----------



## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

Thank you very much Warren for your advice, and I will follow it. I have seen from the posts on this site, even for the short time since I joined, that you are highly respected, and I am now among those. Thanks, Don McGowen.


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

bbcdon said:


> Thank you very much Warren for your advice, and I will follow it. I have seen from the posts on this site, even for the short time since I joined, that you are highly respected, and I am now among those. Thanks, Don McGowen.


Thank you...but you are too kind....there are many contributors to this forum, some of which have forgotten more about pigeons, then I remember. I only have a very tiny area of expertise and even within that area I have my share of detractors. To believe anything I say on any particular pigeon subject, requires a degree of "Faith", since much of what I deal with is cutting edge, unproven technology. In other words, I sometimes stray from generally accepted known pigeon lore or "facts". 

Perhaps it is this "Unconventional" thinking, which has enabled me think "Out Side the Box".....and at times has let me discover the truth is sometimes already in that darn "Box"........


----------



## lawman (Jul 19, 2005)

Hi bbcdon,

Well now, you’re near one of the greatest breeders and fliers in California. I sure would not pass up any birds offered from Chic or Judy Brooks loft. Or for that matter most of the people that do well in there club/combine, they all have excellent stock. Now I go for performance regardless of blood type in my birds. Just my preference, doesn’t mean it's any more right or wrong than Warrens approach of close bloodlines. 

Now that’s not to say I don’t produce inbred youngsters, I do just not as closely related as Warren has stated his birds are in past posts. The kicker is, my inbreed and outcrosses all have to produce on the race course or they don’t come back into the breeding loft regardless of bloodline(s).

Personally if your going to concentrate more on futurities. Then take a long hard look at the different ones you’re planning on entering. See who's doing the winning and at what distances the birds are performing the best. 

Then go out and obtain birds that have performed well at these same distances. If you can’t get the birds themselves, be it due to cost or the owner just doesn’t want to part with it. See if you can obtain youngsters off of the performance bird(s). Next step would be to obtain closely related birds and hope to get a click, (pair that produces the same as the hit bird). None of these come with any guarantees but it should get you started pretty well off.

Just my thoughts,
Lawman


----------



## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

Thanks, LAWMAN. I will heed your advice. I just received an e-mail from Hapyco Lofts, stating they have grandchildren to Senna for sale, Don McGowen.


----------



## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

bb
One strategy that I use that might work for you is to breed birds for other clubs and for futurities. This does a few things for you. This allows you to breed and raise pigeons without flying them at your own location. Scott McCallister does this in Durango Co. This allows him to have a few birds in town and not distrub the neighbors. They most likely do not even know they are there. Secondly it allows you to test birds under different conditions, something needed for futurities. You can also breed more birds than you could otherwise, having others fly them. I think from your post you want to be competitive in futurities and one loft races. The only advice I could give about birds, is get the best you can find that perform well in futurities. How you do this is the million dollar question. If you are not going to fly them, I would look for some proven breeders to obtain. Not cheap here. You could get young off of winners and breed them together. Another method would be to look at the best fliers in the country over the last few years and obtain stock from them. Elton Dinga, Crazy Al, Warren, Capt Chuck, etc is where I would look. Be ware of the buy the races guys, who enter 24 birds in a 100 bird race. The more they have to advertise the more I would stay away. For Futurities you need fast maturing, rockets at 150 to 350 miles. 
Good Luck

Some starting places
Pigeonparadise.com - you can pic up top birds here for thousands
ipigeon.com - Look for futurity winners for auction here. You can pick up top birds for hundreds. 

I think some others could add to this list. 

Randy


----------



## Halcanada (Nov 21, 2007)

Hi bbcdon. Just joined here. Nice site. Doubt if one or two pairs will do it for you. Just not enough offspring to fly all the one loft/futurities etc,. Besides, you will be putting out a lot of cash. Best breeders, ummm.. Ganus/Happyco and all the others have them. Dont jump in and get drowned! Not all good racers breed good racers. Some prepotent stock birds around. Super 73, comes to mind. About the only one I can think of right now. Better if you get some pairs that you like and if you can, fly in any local club/combine first. Then go on from there.


----------



## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

If you want to start right. DO NOT GET young birds that are unproven. At least buy raced young birds that show what they did. Buying proven birds Gets you proven stock. 85 % of young birds turn out not to be the top birds. So buying unraced young birds IS a gamble anytime.. Paper/pedigree just show breeding line performance. On unraced birds You get a paper but have to do the testing. And 2 pair can raise you about 12 birds for raceing 1 loft races. You are trying to start right by getting better and less rather then more and less quality. So I am sure You are looking right. Good luck And take your time.


----------



## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

Thanks for all of the good advice. I have communicated with several proven racers on this site, and will take my time, due to the loft is still under construction, Don McGowen.


----------



## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

bb

I started with 6 pair of birds. Started small. I still only have 50 birds and that is too many for me. I have only added 2 birds to this mix. Out of this bunch of birds I have had 5 pairs breed me winners, and in three breeding seasons, I have won two futurities and a bond race. I have also won many other races. I do not attribute my success to my great breeding sense or my great knowledge. I do attribute it to great birds from a great mentor and all the help that I have had along the way. From fanciers, reading and from these posts. I do think sometimes unproven racers can be better than birds that have finished a season. But I do think you need to very selectively finding these birds. For example a pair of babies off of Warren's Flamingo winner's parents might be a good start. I have a pair that has bred me a fututity winner, foundation breeders and are grandparents to the bond winner, a 300 mile club winner, and half of my breeding stock all in three breeding seasons. These are the birds you need. Not just what anyone will send your way. I have confidence in all my birds, but more in a select few. Find a guy like Elton Dinga and buy six birds off him that are brothers and sisters to what he is killing the competition with this year. Or better yet buy them when the winners of these races are at auction. I saw a bird at auction that is a half sister to my founding pair of hens for $200. That bird was in the first drop in all the training races, finished 20th in the futurity and was off a hen that bred 9th Vegas crap shoot. Not to mention her pedigree had Bob Kenny, Vic, Miller and Double T loft bloodlines. People are still peddling Vic Miller unproven blood for over $300. Would of loved to have her to breed to her nephew that won me the futurity, but no funds. These are the birds you need to find. Strong futurity bloodlines, proven race record and a great price. Good Luck.

Randy


----------



## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Sorry forgot something. A good fancier to imulate would be Marcel Sangers. He knew what birds he wanted by studying race records. He purchased birds as close to these birds as he could. He selectivly bred them, raced them, used the basket for selection and the rest is history. Warren's Ludo is another that you might want to study. Sixty birds and he wins every week. You can read all about these guys on pigeonparadise.com.

Good Luck

Randy


----------



## Halcanada (Nov 21, 2007)

Hi again folks. Futurities etc are out of my experience. But I assume these are all young bird races? Good young birds 'usually' make good old birds about 80% of the time. Just wondering if any of these young bird winners get flown later in life? What is the longest distance for these young birds? Just thinking here if young race winners are bred from for next years young bird races would not that be a Catch-22 situation? Sort of fast maturing birds that if flown as yearlings or 2 year olds may not be able to compete? Sorry for all the questions. Just asking.


----------

