# canker youngster with strange neck movements



## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Hi everyone,
We're currently at full capacity: 2 pet pigeons, 1 (now healed) broken foot pijie, 1 squeaker who Aias found close to death after having fallen out of his nest (very healthy now), and the newest addition is a juvenile with canker who is in very bad shape.

Aias found him standing in the street yesterday. He is puffed up, does very strange movements with his neck (made me think canker in the throat/neck/crop) and does have small amounts of canker visible in the throat. We gave some thin formula by tube feeding last night and 1/2 a Spartrix afterwards. 

He was more alert today but still doing all kinds of strange postures. And still with visible canker. Last night, he threw up some of the formula, so today we gave a second 1/2 of Spartrix and then waited an hour before giving formula. 

We finished feeding him a little while ago and now he's doing a weird thing where he slowly tilts forward till his beak almost touches the ground, then looks a bit startled, straightens up, and then starts the whole thing again. Over and over. What is going on??

His poops don't look too bad, mustardy-green with a little liquid. Not too many poops, but we haven't been feeding a whole lot, rehydrating first then gradually increasing the formula (given the vomiting, though that only happened once).

We're going to call tomorrow for an appointment at Animal General for Saturday...is there anything else we should do in the meantime? Any other meds we should give? 

I was really hoping the Spartrix would work some magic overnight, but that didn't happen...am pretty worried about this one.

Thanks for your help!

Sabina


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Hi Sabina,

I'm not that experienced, but the symptons you describe with his neck & beak movements repeatedly touching the ground, in addition to the canker it could be a possible case of PMV. If that is the case, he needs to be kept seperate and apart from the other birds. It is highly contageous. 

Hopefully somebody more experienced will give you better imput.

Please keep us posted.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I've seen birds do that when they're very worn out. You've given food and basic medications, now it's for warmth, time, rest and safety I'm afraid. Good luck!

Pidgey


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

So far it doesn't look like PMV--no stargazing or anything like that. The neck movement looks more like he's uncomfortable. I guess we just have to wait and see if he gets better, as you said Pidgey. He is on a heating pad, has a shallow dish of water in his cage, and is getting formula that's on the thin side. I think I read doing 3 days of Spartrix? So 1 more 1/2 tab tomorrow? Oh and we moved, so now this pigeon is on a separate FLOOR from the other pijies, imagine that!! 
Thanks for your thoughts,
Sabina


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Sabina,



Consider to use "ACV-Water" for his drinking and formula mixing...4 Tablespoons to a Gallon...


If you have 'Medistatin' or 'Nystatin', use it also.



He could have a Yeast or Candida infection in his Crop and down from there...


Images?


As you know, 'Spartrix' can cause them to throw-up...so, spacing the 'pill' between meals is best.


I would would do the half-tab-a-day for 'five' days if it was me.


Do you have any antibiotics?




Good luck..!


Phil
l v


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Sabina,

Some strains of trich can be resistant to Carnidazole (the active ingredient in Spartrix) and you may have to try another canker medicine. But also sometimes it takes some time for the canker nodule to detach itself...it depends where it is.

I think I have seen movements like you describe, not PMV. Heaven knows what discomfort a pigeon feels when he has a canker nodule in his throat. I had one that would inflate half his throat, that was very peculiar and very worrying. I asked for advice Fred told me to feel down the side of the throat that wasn't inflating and that I would find a nodule there...he was right.

Cynthia


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

i always use flagyl full 7-10 day course for trich, not sure how that differs from spartix. i will also debride any visible cankers with dilute betadine.
sounds to me like he has neuro symptoms, which could be any number of things , from head trauma to poisoning.
i'm curious to hear what the vet says


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Sabina, I can't add anything to what the others have said but just wanted to say HI to you and Aias and tell you I miss you!

I hope you're enjoying your new home - sounds like lots more room but I bet Aias misses the roof pigeons!

Good luck with this latest little one. It may be that part of the problem is weakness.


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## KIPPY (Dec 18, 2003)

> We finished feeding him a little while ago and now he's doing a weird thing where he slowly tilts forward till his beak almost touches the ground, then looks a bit startled, straightens up, and then starts the whole thing again.


Since he has visible canker. Could it be canker in his throat and he trying to dislodge it himself? He could be trying to throw it up but can't. It may take a few more days of of spartrix.


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Thanks everyone. The Spartrix seems to be working now, he's not doing any more weird head movements. His mouth gets sticky and mucus-y, I guess that happens with canker? He's more alert today, actually has been pretty feisty since after the first day. 

I forgot to call the Wild Bird Fund today, but I think since he's getting better, we'll just wait and see how 5 days of Spartrix does. It's about an hour each way to get there now.

Thanks Maggie!! It is MUCH bigger so we're pretty excited. We're taking forever to unpack, but hopefully we'll get it set up soon. And you're right, Aias definitely misses the roof pigeons a lot. 

Phil, we're using ACV. We can get some Nystatin. Antibiotics-wise, we have meds for coccidiosis and we have Baytril. 

Cynthia, what happens when the canker nodule dislodges? Does it dissolve or get digested? Do they throw it up? I tried to feel for nodules but didn't feel anything. But it must be there. 

I think you're right Kippy about him trying to dislodge it himself, poor thing. Well thankfully he's not moving his neck in those crazy ways anymore, it was very disconcerting to watch.

So listen to this. The first night that Aias had brought this youngster home, he didn't tell me he had found another pigeon--he somehow always thinks it's a good thing to surprise me with. So I got home from work and went in to see the other baby we've had for the past few weeks (who is an adorable squeaker by the way) and instead I see this very puffed and contorting in every which way bird. And since he didn't TELL me we had another pigeon, I thought it was the baby and started CRYING and CRYING. He had moved the other baby upstairs and put this super sick one in his place. Oh my god, the scare I had, thinking our perfectly healthy happy baby had gotten so so sick since the morning. Oh and get this...he first acted all innocent, as in "what do you mean, what's wrong with the baby?"!!!! Then he saw me having a nervous breakdown and told me it was another bird. Can you imagine??? I was so relieved it wasn't the baby...and a bit sheepish I didn't realize it was another bird, they don't look remotely alike...AND then so worried about what was going on, I didn't even get around to yelling at him about it. I'll have to do that tomorrow...


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Sabina,


The ACV is good...and if he is brightening and improving, could well be you are fine with what you are doing with no need of anything additional.


There are postures and ways of moving their necks and shoulders while standing, usually standing oddly 'tall'...which to me are associated with Crop infections, usully Candida...but Canker could do it I suppose.


Some inflaitory debris seems to dissolve, others do not...and what becomes of the debris when it is in the digestive tract, is that - far as I know - if high, and not dissolving, it can get thrown up and out through heir mouth...and if too low for that, and not dissolving, it gets passed on along and is masticated by their Gizzard and digested and gets made into poop...or if too low for that, then it just passes out between poops more or less no worse for wear.




Canker, once being treated with the meds, can often have a sort of 'mucousy' phase...visible in their mouth when it has been 'high' enough to do so.



What have the poops and urates been like color wise and so on?


And have the poops and urates changed since the meds?


Phil
l v


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## KIPPY (Dec 18, 2003)

> There are postures and ways of moving their necks and shoulders while standing, usually standing oddly 'tall'...which to me are associated with Crop infections, usully Candida...but Canker could do it I suppose.


I've had 2 in the past like that and one which went through the throwing up motion over and over. They were treated for canker and are fine. 
I have one now that had the upright position and his upper back was hunched. He's doing fine now after a couple days of spartrix.
Canker can make them do some crazy stuff, I quess.


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Well we're not so happy with how the bird looks today (a little too droopy), so I called the Wild Bird Fund and we're going to see a rehabber at 2pm today, will keep you posted.

Oh and I also noticed the crop looks kind of orange-ish, so that scared us as well...


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I'm sorry to hear the bird is not looking so good, but glad you are taking him to see the rehabber.

Please update us when you can, and thank you for all your care and kindness shown to our feral flock.


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Well things are looking very badly for this bird. Rita was taken aback right away by how pale he was. And said he was also in some respiratory distress. So she took some blood from his toe to do a blood smear and ran it to a lab down the street. They said they had never seen so many white blood cells. He also has anemia and blood parasites. Fecal-wise, she said he was filled with gram negative bacteria and also had some yeast. She didn't think he had canker--she thought he was just dehydrated and caked with stuff. And she thought the mucus-yness was also from being dehydrated.

So she wanted to give vibramycin but didn't have any, so she gave us Baytril to give intramuscularly 0.12ml twice a day for 3 days, then 0.12ml orally twice a day for 4-7 days. She also gave us Nystatin. She said no more Spartrix. The IM injection part is tough cause this bird is sooo thin.

Anyway, the bird has just been lying down the last couple hours. Rita said the prognosis was bad. The poor baby is so cute...I really hope he can keep fighting till the medicine starts to work.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I'n sorry to hear the prognosis, I hope for the best for him.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Sabina, I'm really sorry to read this but, you know, miracles do happen and if he can just hold out until the meds kick in, he may stand a chance.  If you get a chance check out the thread in the General Section that Kippy did on a "thing" one of her feral pigeons coughed up. Maybe your little guy has something similar.

Tell Aias he is a big tease for pulling that trick on you but since he rescued this little one, giving him a chance to live, I would forgive him. 

You guys are terrific.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

sabina said:


> Well things are looking very badly for this bird. Rita was taken aback right away by how pale he was. And said he was also in some respiratory distress. So she took some blood from his toe to do a blood smear and ran it to a lab down the street. They said they had never seen so many white blood cells. He also has anemia and blood parasites. Fecal-wise, she said he was filled with gram negative bacteria and also had some yeast. She didn't think he had canker--she thought he was just dehydrated and caked with stuff. And she thought the mucus-yness was also from being dehydrated.
> 
> So she wanted to give vibramycin but didn't have any, so she gave us Baytril to give intramuscularly 0.12ml twice a day for 3 days, then 0.12ml orally twice a day for 4-7 days. She also gave us Nystatin. She said no more Spartrix. The IM injection part is tough cause this bird is sooo thin.
> 
> Anyway, the bird has just been lying down the last couple hours. Rita said the prognosis was bad. The poor baby is so cute...I really hope he can keep fighting till the medicine starts to work.




Hi Sabrina.


SubQ injections of the right kind of re-hydration fluids...would have been good to do then...or, if not that, then Orally with Elctrolytes.


Also, treating for the Yeast infection - 'Medistatin'...'Nystatin'...


'Metronidazole' might help also with the Bacteria...


Provide definite warmth...


Good luck...



Any details on what kind of 'Blood Parasites'?



Phil
l v


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

I asked what kind of blood parasites but she said she'd have to send it out to find out. I had never encountered that (either on the forum or with our birds) so I was wondering what that meant. 

The baby's a little better now, sitting instead of lying down. We went to feed him just now and his beak was all caked with I don't know what...formula from 4 hours ago? (We were advised to feed smaller amounts more frequently). Some of the formula squirted back out, which has happened the last couple times we fed him, as if there was an obstruction (we're tube feeding). But Rita didn't feel anything in the neck or the crop. And she wasn't sure why the crop has an orange area on it. 

Oh so this bird is named Willie since Aias found him on the Williamsburg bridge. I was contemplating Willa as well. 

I'll have to find the cord to upload some pics so you all can see what a sweet cute bird this is...hopefully tomorrow!


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## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

Sabina,

I hope the pigeon pulls through.

I've never heard of dehydration causing a mucus buildup. Certainly, the mucus membranes can feel tacky, but I don't know that actual mucus would be produced. You said earlier that the canker was visible? I would tend to keep up the Spartrix just in case, especially if you've already started.

Can you swab out some of the mucus? If so, do you think he could then eat on his own? 

I also hate giving IM injections on a very thin bird. What about doing the Baytril sub-q instead (some people do Baytril SQ in a pocket of fluids). For what it's worth, our avian vet said he would generally give Baytril sub-q rather than IM.

Jennifer


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Sabrina,



As Jenfer mentions...I also have seen no association between 'Mucous' and 'dehyration'.


I have seen 'Mucous' and 'stringy' mucous-like viscous material in Pigeon's Mouths when Canker debris was dissolving...or, in instances of unknown Bacterial infection's inflamitory-debris becoming loosened by Antibiotics.


Possbly Candida can occasion mucous-like stuff in their Mouths.


Formula should not be 'squirting' back when being tubed 'in'...unless the 'Tube' is far short of the actual Crop...an or if there is an esophagal obstruction.


Possibly there are problems with the formula itself...


Would you detail a review of the formula practice you are using? along with details of how you are feeding?



Phil
l v


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Hmm. I doubt it's a technique issue, since we've done it a hundred times without a problem using the same formula/equipment/technique (tube attached to syringe). 

I didn't see the canker, I was holding the bird while my husband Aias was looking in the throat. He said he saw yellow cheesy stuff but it is possible that the bird was dehydrated and formula was caked (I'm pretty sure he had already fed the bird by the time I got home and we did an exam, I'll have to double-check.) But I don't suppose 2 more half tabs of Spartix could do any harm.

It's very strange, we also tried to give the Nystatin now, using a 1 ml syringe into the crop (as we've done dozens of times in the past), and the Nystatin just came right back up (and kept coming back up for the next five minutes). I really don't know what could be going on. Firstly, there were no such problems the first 3 days with this bird. Secondly, wouldn't Rita have felt an obstruction? The formula coming back up has happened 3 times, twice after the visit today, and once before, I don't remember if it was earlier today or last night.

Jennifer, in terms of the bird eating on his own, you mean seeds? I guess we were worried about seeds getting stuck. Another rehabber who was helping out today suggested Zupreem canary pellets since they're softer, maybe we can look for those. But you think regular small seeds would be ok?

It's only 2 more days with the injections, I think it should be ok. But if it does get too difficult, we'll keep the subq option in mind, thanks!


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## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

Seeing yellow cheesy stuff combined with the mucus buildup would lead me to think canker. In any case, Rita could always do a wet mount to look for the trichomonads to try to rule it in/out. (I know she's done it before.)

I don't know if you'd necessarily be able to feel an obstruction depending on where it is, but I think that's where an x-ray would help. Do the formula/meds come back up *as* you are feeding/medicating or right after? 

I meant regular seeds because I think it helps a bird who's vomiting/regurging to eat on their own, but I don't know if they're a good idea if you suspect an obstruction. I had a canker bird recently who vomited his formula every time I fed him, but the vomiting went away completely as soon as I gave him seeds (and although he still had some canker in his throat, he was able to get them down without problem).

Dr. Pesek ought to be at the Nassau Emerg clinic today (I know it's a pain to get to for those of us without cars!!), so if you think the bird is bad off and want her to take a look, that's always an option. (An x-ray would cost, though, but maybe she'd be able to come to some kind of conclusion from an exam alone.)

Jennifer


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Rita didn't do the wet mount cause she really didn't think there was any canker. But like I said, shouldn't be any harm from 2 more 1/2 tabs of Spartrix, right? The formula/meds came up right at the end of feeding (during basically).

The bird is looking a little better, still sitting instead of lying down. So I don't think we'll go out to Long Island...thanks for the info though.


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## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

sabina said:


> But like I said, shouldn't be any harm from 2 more 1/2 tabs of Spartrix, right?


Not in my opinion, and this way, you're somewhat covered in case it is canker after all. I wonder if there could be some canker further down the esophagus that isn't palpable that is obstructing her and causing the regurging? (Come to think of it, I was talking to Dr. P not long ago about a canker bird who was vomiting, and I remember her saying, "You don't know what's down the esophagus" and suggesting I keep up with the Spartrix.)

Hope he improves. It's so hard to see them like that, especially when they've just started out in life!

Jennifer


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Thanks Jennifer. I do think there must be some canker in the esophagus. He started making some neck movements again recently. Also, we're doing 12 cc per feeding every few hours, and the last one, we went more slowly with the tubing and it started coming out after 4cc. We waited a little, did it even more slowly and got the last 8cc in. But some of it is still coming up. He's not vomiting. It just comes up. And before we started feeding, his mouth was frothy.

So we're dissolving the 1/2 tab of Spartrix now. One of the times that the formula came up, it looked like there was also a part of a white tablet, and it had been over 24 hours ago that he got any pill. So it must've gotten stuck. So no more pills for now.

Poor thing. I'll try to get some pics up soon.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

sabina said:


> Hmm. I doubt it's a technique issue, since we've done it a hundred times without a problem using the same formula/equipment/technique (tube attached to syringe).




Hi sabina...



Well...golly...


When feeding with the 'tube attatched to syringe'...


Does the end of the 'tube' go all the way for sure into his mid-Crop?


Or, only into the Esophagus?


What kind of 'tube' is it? ( diameter, made out of what? and so on...)

And, do you lubricate it? 

How is the end of the tube shaped?




> I didn't see the canker, I was holding the bird while my husband Aias was looking in the throat. He said he saw yellow cheesy stuff but it is possible that the bird was dehydrated and formula was caked (I'm pretty sure he had already fed the bird by the time I got home and we did an exam, I'll have to double-check.) But I don't suppose 2 more half tabs of Spartix could do any harm.



Formula is not going to 'cake' in a Pigeon' upper esophagus...

Unless you are using a 'Yellow' formula...formula would not turn yellow for not-passing...anyway...






> It's very strange, we also tried to give the Nystatin now, using a 1 ml syringe into the crop (as we've done dozens of times in the past),





Please explain?


How does one get a '1 ml syringe into the crop?"


Please understand that everything metters here with this sabina...quality of attention...quality of description...'details'...etc...


Or else everything is too confused and hap-hazard,vague, unstated, and no one has anything to go on as for trying to figure out what is happening...or to account for variables...





> and the Nystatin just came right back up (and kept coming back up for the next five minutes). I really don't know what could be going on. Firstly, there were no such problems the first 3 days with this bird. Secondly, wouldn't Rita have felt an obstruction? The formula coming back up has happened 3 times, twice after the visit today, and once before, I don't remember if it was earlier today or last night.



It would be a very good idea...to review in details, what you are doing as for 'formula'...and, for feeding.


Even though you think it was all fine all the times prior...




> Jennifer, in terms of the bird eating on his own, you mean seeds? I guess we were worried about seeds getting stuck. Another rehabber who was helping out today suggested Zupreem canary pellets since they're softer, maybe we can look for those. But you think regular small seeds would be ok?
> 
> It's only 2 more days with the injections, I think it should be ok. But if it does get too difficult, we'll keep the subq option in mind, thanks!




Injections of...'Baytril'..?


Is his Crop passing it's contents?


Are there poops and urates being made?


If so...

How are the poops and urates looking?


Colors, consitancys...and so on?


This all matters..!



Best wishes...


Phil
l v


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## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

Do you think he might be able to get down some small seeds (like millet or milo) on his own?

I've given Spartrix half a tab at a time before directly in the mouth, and it's always seemed to dissolve easily. If he's regurging so often, it might be good to give it apart from the feedings to be sure he's getting it. (I'm sure you're already doing this.)

Jennifer


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

jenfer said:


> Do you think he might be able to get down some small seeds (like millet or milo) on his own?
> 
> I've given Spartrix half a tab at a time before directly in the mouth, and it's always seemed to dissolve easily. If he's regurging so often, it might be good to give it apart from the feedings to be sure he's getting it. (I'm sure you're already doing this.)
> 
> Jennifer




Hi Jennifer,



One can dissolve Tablets or Pills IN the formula...for that matter...or dissolve them in a little Water or ACV-Water, adding 'that' to the formula...alleviating any concerns about the Tablet, half-a-tablet, or Pill even having to be given orally at all...


The real question here, or one of several, is whether the 'tube' being used for feeding, is disharging the contents of the Syringe, into the Crop...or into the Esophagus...



It would sure help if we knew that...



Phil
l v


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## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

pdpbison said:


> One can dissolve Tablets or Pills IN the formula...for that matter...or dissolve them in a little Water or ACV-Water, adding 'that' to the formula...alleviating any concerns about the Tablet, half-a-tablet, or Pill even having to be given orally at all...


Oh, I know. It's just that if you dissolve the Spartrix in the formula, if you have problems with the feeding, then you can't be sure the bird got the full dose. So I've come to prefer to give Spartrix directly in the mouth when possible. With this bird regurging so often, I would tend to give the half tab orally rather than dissolved.



> The real question here, or one of several, is whether the 'tube' being used for feeding, is disharging the contents of the Syringe, into the Crop...or into the Esophagus...


The way I learned tube feeding, and I suspect the way Sabina did as well, is to advance the tube 3" from the tip of the beak. So if there's an obstruction between that point and the crop, then formula would be more likely to back up, I guess. 

Jennifer


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Phil, we've been tube feeding birds for over 2 years--of course the tube goes into the crop, we can always feel the crop getting filled during the feeding. We use rubber tubes supplied to us from the rehabbers with the Wild Bird Fund/Animal General, which as far as I can tell were designed for tube feeding, and we were instructed on their use. The formula we're using now is Zupreem, initially we gave it mixed to melted ice cream thickness, now we mix it a little thinner than applesauce. We crop medicate again as taught to us by the rehabbers, a 1 ml syringe into the crop--I'm not sure what you want me to explain about that. 

Phil, I appreciate your help and really don't mean for you to take this the wrong way, but really, I don't think details on basic care need to be elaborated in this case. 

Poops-wise, they are usually light brown, copious in amount, moist, with yellowish-white urates. Rita was concerned about possible adenovirus given the color of the urates. 

I'm sorry not to give exact/thorough details, but with the 5 pigeons, 4 cats, cleaning, cooking, unpacking, etc, it's hard to spend that much time on the posts. We're doing the best we can here.


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## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

> Poops-wise, they are usually light brown, copious in amount, moist, with yellowish-white urates. Rita was concerned about possible adenovirus given the color of the urates.


Sabina, just a quick note that I have a bird here (juvenile) who also had yellowish urates. I called the vet in alarm, and she said yellow urates don't really concern her all that much. She mentioned liver damage as a possible cause (but in this case, it was unlikely).

He had the yellow urates for days on end until finally they cleared up. I'm still not sure why they were yellow.

Jennifer


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Little Willie was put to sleep today. Poor baby struggled so much these last few days, I really wanted it to all be worth it. The mucus-y thing was getting worse, his beak was just frothing all the time the last 2 days. And when Aias put the tube down, he sometimes hit against an obstruction on the way down. The baby was still alert yesterday though--he even jumped out of his cage and was walking on the floor. But this morning his eyes were half closed, he looked worse to me, so I called the Wild Bird Fund for an appt. 

So Aias took the bird to see Karen. He did have trichomonads in his throat, even after 5 days of Spartrix. And then they did an x-ray, and--well this part is a little murky, from Karen to Aias to me--his chest cavity was abnormal, filled with fluid? The esophagus was pushed to the side. I'm not sure exactly. So they decided to put him to sleep. His condition had worsened from when I last saw him, he was very weak and wouldn't have survived any intervention. 

From the blood parasites to the trich to the gram neg bacteria and then this...Such a sweet bird, it really breaks my heart to think of all he went through. The last couple days with all the frothiness, he was obviously having a hard time breathing. And then sometimes he would be in that vomiting posture, he was probably also in pain. Poor poor sweet thing. I really thought since he made it almost a week with us, he had a chance of making it...you know, he was able to hang in there that long, despite being so terribly sick. 

Here are the pictures finally. http://www.flickr.com/photos/ms_sabina/tags/willie/


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

It sounds like it was just too hard of a row to hoe. It's always so painful on those cases where everything you do just isn't enough. Antibiotics work with the immune system and sometimes it's so compromised that they just can't help. Perhaps he had Circovirus and his immune system was just gone. My condolences and I'm glad he had you and Aias giving him the love and attention that you did.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I looked at his picture and he looked so kind, and that's the real tragedy--if we had a world full of that it'd be a lot better place.

Pidgey


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Thanks Pidgey. He really was so sweet.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Poor baby, he was so young and so cute. Thank you for trying so hard to get him better, Sabina. 

Cynthia


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

Sabina,

I am so sorry to read of *Willie*'s passing. I looked at his pictures, and agree wholeheartedly with Pidgey that he looked very kind, and that we need much more of that kindness in this world.

Poor little fellow, he looked also very patient. I'm sorry he had to suffer, for I know what it's like to have trouble breathing. But -- why should I call him poor? I probably shouldn't, because he had a rich although short existence while with you, full of your care. And he had the patience to endure. One might argue that when one is sick, one doesn't have much choice except to be patient and to endure. But one could also be angry, and lash out, and little Willy, from his photos, seems to be showing us a better way to exist with pain and misery. Something about his eyes. Well, some may say that maybe I'm reading too much into this, and seeing in the photos something that maybe isn't there, that I'm imagining all this, and maybe it is so. But for me, the photos are very moving, and I'm sorry Willie didn't live longer to thrive as a healthy pigeon. 

My condolences to you, and thank you for the photos and the efforts you put in on his behalf. I feel a lot of gratitude when I see evidence of creatures trying to enjoy life, trying to keep on going, putting in an effort, even though it eventually comes to an end, as it will for all of us.

Larry


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Thank you Cynthia. 
I still am sad about Willie's suffering but your words did help Larry. I appreciate your thoughts.
Sabina


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

OH Sabina! i am SOOOO sorry! What an ordeal for ALL of you! I know you guys work so hard with your rescues, so it's such a heartbreak to have to come to that decision, but it was for the best, sometimes it just is too late, and you guys did EVERYTHING and THEN some to help this guy out.
He did have that weird posture in one pic, like that throwing up posture they get. How weird, blood parasites? I mean, how would you know he had that is you didnt have AG to tell you?
Poor Willie, and i am so sorry for you guys. Willie was very lucky to have found you guys, even if he didnt make it. He at least died knowing there are people out there that care, and he received that care up until his last moment, and thats WAY more then being left out on the street could of done for him....


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