# Advice needed



## Kay-Leela (Dec 14, 2009)

Hello all,


I've been taking care of a pigeon for about 2-3 weeks now. I first discovered it by the side of my house, injured and flat on its back. My mother apparently witnessed it being attacked by the neighbor's cat and she had me rush home from college to help see if it was alright. Thankfully, it was alive and kicking.

There was no very visible injury, but upon close inspection, there was a puncture wound (possibly from the cat biting it) on the inside of its right wing, and besides that, there was nothing else.

We took her in, put her in a cardboard box in our kitchen (it's warm and quiet there) and gave her bread and water (the only food we have for her at the moment). For the first few days, she wouldn't touch the food or drink so we got a little worried, but it started to eat on the 3rd to 4th day. 

Our residence is a favorite of cats, so it took us a bit of time (about a week) before we had enough courage to bring her outside for a walk. Immediately, I noticed several things;

-She was limping on her right foot. The foot won't touch the ground and she seems to be out of balance a lot because of this for the first week. She somewhat tip-toes on it now.

-Her right wing (which I discovered to be injured) was healing fine, but the left wing (which was pretty much unscathed as far as I can see) seems to be lower than the right. It isn't dragging on the ground, so I've ruled out it being broken and even a bird-loving family friend said it wasn't broken. But it's been about 3 weeks and the wing is still not raised as it normally should. I tried stretching out the wings by hand to observe that she was co-operative when stretching her injured right wing, but would refuse to stretch her left and would often shake herself out of my grip and not let me touch her left wing.

-She doesn't really make much sound. Most pigeons in the area would coo to each other while eating (we scatter leftover breadcrumbs under a mango tree outside our house) but the pigeon I found wouldn't do the same. 

Recently (the morning before I posted this post, actually...) , I've noticed that she wouldn't drink. The container I used was more than an inch deep and the water was changed regularly. The container was also the very same container we used to give her water in for the whole time she was under our care, but for the past few days (about two or three) she wouldn't drink unless I submerge the tip of her beak into the container. (even then she's more likely to take a sip and then turn away from the container before I submerge her beak again. I kid you not, this isn't easy. I think she enjoys seeing me grumble every time I try to make her drink.)

Previously, I've had no problems having her drink.

Also, in a few web pages, I've noticed that it mentioned the color of its excrement as a health indicator of sorts. My little friend here has watery excrement (which I think is normal) and the solid matter is greenish. (I think the white stuff that comes with it is normal too, unless someone says otherwise.)

Please help, I'm very very eager to see her fly away all healthy and I definitely do not want her to stay very long. Not that I hate birds, just that I prefer taking care of cats as opposed to birds. (Who seem to have something against me. I can feel it in their gaze.  )

Thanks,
Kay

P/S: I live in Brunei (a tiny country in south-east asia) and in the district I live in, there isn't a vet in sight. The nearest one is about 2-3 hours drive away and I'd take the trip if I weren't so busy with college right now.

P/S2: I'm a little worried about her choice of food. Is just feeding her bread enough? I don't see too many pet stores near where I live, so I'm quite skeptical as to if they have bird food.


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## Kay-Leela (Dec 14, 2009)

Oh, I almost forgot. I'm not sure if this is worth mentioning, but her left eye is partially lidded. It's not half-lidded, just..... SLIGHTLY closed. (maybe one-eighth closed???)


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

My guess would be that she couldn't fly even before the cat. Normally, we'd recommend immediate antibiotic treatment after a cat or other predator attack on the possibility that the bird had gotten some "Pasteurella multocida" in them. That's a bacteria that's especially lethal to birds and small ones can die within as little as 12 hours after even so much as a cat lick. With pigeons, we'll see them go down after about four days of a predator attack if they're going to due to the actual attack.

However, the signs say that she's got some problems for which antibiotic therapy would be a very good idea. Where, basically, are you? That sometimes makes a big difference on what's available.

Pidgey


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## Kay-Leela (Dec 14, 2009)

Thanks for such a speedy reply, Pidgey.

I live in Brunei Darussalam, in the Belait District. Kind of a ghost town-ish place so I may have to go down to town one of these days to pick stuff up. (I've been rather low on cash and my allowance just came in, so yeah.)

So judging from your response, it's best for me to take her to the vet, is it? Is there a way to somehow treat her at home?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

If you have a vet, sure. However, I'll be frank: most vets are going to take a brief look and make a guess about a medication and dosing amount. Doses for pigeons are often different even than other birds and we have a good avian formulary (published in one of the best avian veterinary books in print, by the way) on *.pdf that we can email you if you like--it's only a 606 KB file.

I'd tend, in your case, to start her on a Baytril/Metronidazole or a Trimethoprim/Sulfa combo and go for at least a couple of weeks before stopping or changing medication.

Pidgey


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## Kay-Leela (Dec 14, 2009)

Yes, please, the .pdf file would be much appreciated. 

And I'll try the medication you've suggested. (after discussing with dad. he's not letting me get anything with a bottle of meds.)


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Email address? You can email me at: [email protected] and I'll reply with the attachment.

Baytril is a veterinary version of Ciprofloxacin. Metronidazole is an antiprotozoal that just happens to also work against some anaerobic organisms. That makes them a good combination but they don't get everything together. The other pair is a completely different type but their spectrum of activity overlaps the aforementioned combo.

Pidgey


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Kay-Leela .. thank you so much for assisting this bird. You are in great hands with Pidgey assisting you on the medications. You did ask an important question about food .. the bread isn't really the right thing for the pigeon. Can you readily get bird seed? If so, what's available where you are?

Terry


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## Kay-Leela (Dec 14, 2009)

[email protected] whoops, silly me. My email is [email protected]. >.<

As of quarter an hour ago, I've fed the bird. She eats a lot, and by a lot, I mean she can finish half a piece of bread. (alright, maybe not exactly half, but you get the idea.) However... Despite eating so much, she's not drinking much. I've tried dripping water onto her beak, dropping some water from a height to make her acknowledge that there's water in her container and I've tried submerging half her beak in the water.

The only thing missing right now is to pry her beak open and dripping water down her throat. =_= (which I won't be doing anytime soon, thankfully.)

Am I doing anything wrong here? I've warmed her and everything, but she just isnt re-hydrating as much as she should be.


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## Kay-Leela (Dec 14, 2009)

Hello Terry, I haven't gone out hunting for bird food yet, but what I DO know is available here is sesame seed. Besides that, I'm not sure what else I can feed her.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Kay-Leela said:


> Hello Terry, I haven't gone out hunting for bird food yet, but what I DO know is available here is sesame seed. Besides that, I'm not sure what else I can feed her.


Thanks for the quick reply! If you are feeding white bread, then we definitely want to find some other alternatives quickly. If the bread is a whole grain bread, then that's not quite so bad. Sesame seed would be OK .. unpopped plain popcorn would be OK .. wheat, milo, safflower, raw peanut pieces, oats, brown rice, soybean bits would be OK. Thawed frozen green peas or corn would be OK. Dry dog or cat food broken up into seed sized bits would be OK.

You're doing great with the bird .. keep up the good work, and please keep us posted.

Terry


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## plamenh (Aug 11, 2006)

Hi Kay,
Thank you for helping this bird.
As you said that it has been 2~3 weeks since you saved her, my guess will be that bird was lucky with a cat attack and there was no Pasteurella infection or she would already be dead.
It seems to me though that you will not be able to release it due to injuries. Please try to organize some cage for her, which will keep her safe from predators. I would get some chicken feed at least if there is no wild birdseeds mix in your area. It will be better than breadcrumbs.
You can use cinnamon tea (1teaspoon to liter of boiling water) for three days instead of water, but definitely make sure that she drinks. Birds do not drink much, so mark fluid level in the dish and monitor it.
If you can find Coloidal silver, it will be good for eye and couple of drops down the throat.
Please post some pictures of her and her droppings just to see what she looks like and if we can help some more.


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## Kay-Leela (Dec 14, 2009)

[email protected] I'll try to mark progresses as I go along. I've found a shop that sells chicken feed (here it's dried corn. I don't know if chicken feed is the staple for chickens on your end of the world...) , would this be an alright substitute for her diet? I've yet to find the shop with the sesame seeds I saw the other day. 

[email protected] Phew, yeah, you can say that again. At the moment, I'm saving up for a cage for her, so I guess for now I'll be sticking her to the cardboard box till I have enough for her cage. As to her drinking problem, she's still not drinking much, but I've managed to get her to drink a bit more.
Regarding the pictures, I'll try to fix my camera so I can get to that. 

Thanks for all your help, guys.

Kay


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## doveone52 (Aug 3, 2009)

Kay-Leela, I am a cat person also. However, I urge you to open your heart to the possibility that you could also be a pigeon person! You have already been a blessing in this bird's life! They really are far more intelligent than we give them credit for. If your little fellow makes it, he can enrich your life like no other!


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## plamenh (Aug 11, 2006)

You can make cage of mesh wire and old wooden crate. Place newspaspers on the botom and food water inside. Cage is more to protect her than to confine her.
Chicken feed is fine for her, sesame seeds are just for addition. Pigeons do eat every type of seeds, corn, wheat, barley, sesame, rape, anything. Best is to mix as they need different vitamins too. Bit greens are also fine.


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## Kay-Leela (Dec 14, 2009)

[email protected] Not gonna deny that, she's growing on me. XD


Update for the day, I just woke up to feed her with the chicken feed I just purchased last night. She's gobbling them down. o.o I'm glad she's eating but I'm facing a rather annoying problem... She still won't drink as much as she's eating. I haven't got cinnamon tea on me and I've tried putting a pinch of salt and sugar in her water, but she just keeps rejecting it. 

Her droppings were usually a mix of solid and liquid waste but this morning, it was mostly solid and has only some liquid in it. 

I'm a little worried... Her wings are both getting slightly better (she flaps them around an awful lot) so I'm gonna take a wild guess and say that she's just as eager as I am for her to fly away. 

Regarding her drinking, I found something funny such that if my sister is the one who feeds her, she'll chug that water. Are pigeons capable of telling people apart?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Kay-Leela said:


> Are pigeons capable of telling people apart?


Yes, they can. Easily. By sight and sound. Lin's always complaining that Bonkers (a blind pigeon that we have) won't make a sound for her all day long but as soon as "Daddy" comes home, the crying gets pretty loud.

Pidgey


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## Pawbla (Jan 6, 2009)

Many animals are able to do it, actually. We are the silly ones that can't tell animals apart !


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## Kay-Leela (Dec 14, 2009)

XD I see. Then I'm kind of glad to know that that's at least normal..

Which brings me to her most recent activity. The bird GROWLED at me when I was going to 'massage' her slightly drooped wing, and continued to growl at me whenever I have to take her out of the box to change the newspaper lining. 

How I wish my sister is at home right now... T.T (she works as a pilot and she's coming back on the 21st. )

Can't wait for the 21st...

Kay


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well... looks like she's accepted you as an equal. Often, they're terrified of us at first and they don't "say" anything. The fact that she's talking to you means that she's accepted that you're not something to be terrified of. That's actually good. It REALLY gets good when you start getting wing-slapped! That also tells you that they're feeling a lot better, which is good.

Maybe she feels more in tune with your sister BECAUSE your sister's a pilot?

Pidgey


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## Kay-Leela (Dec 14, 2009)

Hoo boy, I don't know if I can handle her wing-slapping me. XDDDD

And I don't know about the 'I'm not something to be terrified of' bit. I often take her out for walks so she can stretch her wings (making sure I got a broom handy to fend off my cat She-she and her kittens Dorian, Smurf and Tot) and every time I try to pick her up, she may well have broken the world record for "World's fastest sprinting pigeon". 

Maybe birds and pilots have something in common.. I just have to figure out what. XD

By the way, Pidgey. Whenever I pick her up, she starts thrashing about. Any ideas as to how to pick her up without this happening? I try to handle her as gently as I can, but sometimes this ends up with the bird NEARLY falling and sometimes, falling. 


Kay


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Most of them don't really care that much for being held. A few get to the point of enjoying it quite a bit and would just as soon be on your shoulder almost all the time. It tends to be pretty rare that a wild pigeon will be that way but there have been a few exceptions. Anyhow, here's a Pigeon-Talk discussion about holding them:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f27/proper-pigeon-handling-4241.html

Pidgey


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