# do you think pigeon can inherit temper from their parents?



## dingweding (Jun 2, 2012)

we know human normally inherit temper from their parents, e.g. I have a short temper just like my dad.

I wonder is it same in pigeon's case... e.g. I sometimes hand feed those chicks, just help them to beef up a bit, normally I will grab 5 or 6 chicks, all same age around 20 days old.. I can find they have very different personality.

some sit very quite, let me feed them, and very cooperative. some fight, refuse, try to run away. some will beg me, and follow me around....

at first I thought some are hungry, some are not, but then I experimented, fed them when they only have a bit food inside.. they behave same..

I guess they might inherit temperature from their parents, some are tame, some are not


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Pigeons are certainly individuals. Though they all have the same basic instincts and built-in reflexes (as do we) they seem to develop - or, as you suggest, possibly also inherit - aspects of personality of their own. Ours are very much individuals, and some you might think by now would be very tame are not, while some who one might expect to be unfriendly are very sweet natured.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

dingweding said:


> we know human normally inherit temper from their parents, e.g. I have a short temper just like my dad.
> 
> I wonder is it same in pigeon's case... e.g. I sometimes hand feed those chicks, just help them to beef up a bit, normally I will grab 5 or 6 chicks, all same age around 20 days old.. I can find they have very different personality.
> 
> ...


*Absolutely they can be like their parents and the generations before them. They are products of their environment as well as of the parent birds.*


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Temperament is partially genetic, partially environmental as said. So in short they do pick up some of their personality traits for generations prior, This is sorta basic science in a way.


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## tjc1 (Aug 22, 2012)

They learn what they see. Its not genetics as much as a learned behavior. You are more likely to have a short temper because it is what you learned. A baby seeing wing flaps and pecking is likely to pick that up than have it built in. But remember pigeons are more built on flight before fight from a predator because thats how the survive. It's a built in reaction. I have taught my babies that the hand is friendly and has food. The parents will still fly from me but the babies have learned to stay and get food from my hand


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

tjc1 said:


> They learn what they see. Its not genetics as much as a learned behavior. You are more likely to have a short temper because it is what you learned. A baby seeing wing flaps and pecking is likely to pick that up than have it built in. But remember pigeons are more built on flight before fight from a predator because thats how the survive. It's a built in reaction. I have taught my babies that the hand is friendly and has food. The parents will still fly from me but the babies have learned to stay and get food from my hand


I have had brave birds breed brave birds, I find my high flying breeds are scatty as this is a bi-product of breeding birds that fly high and long, This tells me that there is a genetic influence, for anyone of us to say what percentage is what would be crazy as I am sure it has not been studied but there is no disputing the fact that behavioural characteristics are both learnt and genetic.


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## tjc1 (Aug 22, 2012)

Wonder what would happen if a high flyer was raised by one of your brave birds NZ? What influence would that have? The bird would still want to fly high but wonder if it would not be as flighty. That would be a cool experiment. I totally agree its genetic and environmental.


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## sev3ns0uls (Jul 2, 2011)

this is interesting....


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

tjc1 said:


> Wonder what would happen if a high flyer was raised by one of your brave birds NZ? What influence would that have? The bird would still want to fly high but wonder if it would not be as flighty. That would be a cool experiment. I totally agree its genetic and environmental.


I use racers as fosters all the time for high fliers, I also use thief pouters to raise high fliers (thief's being the bravest of all my breeds), The high fliers still have the same flighty tendencies even if left in with the thief pouters for a good year or so, I agree that they are _slightly_ calmer from the influence of the racer or thief but they are still flightier than a racer or thief themself. I am definitely not going against what your saying but I think we need to be realistic about the fact that a birds temperament can be just as genetic as it is behavioural.

I would also like to note that I am not writing off the chance of a brave bird teaching a genetically flighty bird to be brave. I wonder if the ability to learn better from parents rather than following genetic instincts is also genetic. ie. some birds follow, some birds lead, followers are likely to conform more whereas leaders will follow their genetic intuition and avoid following the group. This is all just opinion and guessing ofcourse based on what I have seen in my birds but I certainly think all the above scenarios are possible and probably more likely than not. Just my semi-informed opinion.


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## tjc1 (Aug 22, 2012)

So there is some behavior change in the fostered babies just not enough to break that genetic code all the way. But just enough for a notice in behavior. That genetic code is a strong will to break. The environmental stimulus would have to be very strong and over a longer period of time not just the time it takes the parent to raise the babies but over generations. That raise some interesting situations, does the breaking of a genetic code with a environmental stimuli break the wanted attributes of the code. As in your case does breaking the high flyer with generations of brave birds take away the streaking of the high flyer to higher altitude because he can now because he is brave. VERY INTERESTING........


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

There is sometimes a behaviour change but not always.
Pigeons (Columba livia) are incredibly variable, That is evident by the vast range of breeds with either visual or behavioural characteristics differing from the "wild type standard" so based on that alone It is difficult to make a blanket statement on this subject, If I had to it would be something like this, "some of the birds temperamental influence is genetic, some learnt or behavioural"

Edit to add: I do not believe raising high fliers under racers or thief's has a dramatic effect on the high fliers flying ability, I do know for sure that flying them with racers or a large group of rollers will effect their "high flying ability"


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## tjc1 (Aug 22, 2012)

This poses a very interesting situation for me.......So here is a question to pose because I wanted to get my rollers up in the sky higher and further. I have crested rollers and they like to stay in the home base area. Would it just be better to box them and take them down the road to get them to home to the loft but teach them to travel a bit? Or would a high flyer or breed that travels a bit further be better? I was thinking of getting a breed that would make them track further might help but it sounds like teaching might be the better route. I was just worried that since they are not a homing type bird I might have more loses. Right now everybody comes home. Some are better at learning the bob trap than others. The older ones seem to like me opening the door for them to let them in.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

You can improve the way they fly by flying them with high fliers but the next generation will need the same teaching so you would be better to improve the genepool either through a cross to Birmingham or select breeding over years.


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## tjc1 (Aug 22, 2012)

But if I get them to fly further wouldn't the older birds then teach them to fly further also.


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