# Very Dark Legs/Feet .. Interesting Toenails



## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

I have these two babies who were 8 days old in the photo. The Dad (El Blanco) is a very large solid white bird with "normal" looking pinkish legs/feet and light toenails. The Mom is what I think is some type of Tumbler, but I'm not certain. She is a banded bird. Her name is Silver cuz she's kinda silver colored. Don't recall at the moment what her legs/feet/toenails look like.

Anyway, the babies have very, very dark legs and feet and tonails that are light colored with a dark band across them .. 

Anything of genetic interest here?










Terry


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## bluecheck (Aug 17, 2006)

Your birds are carrying "dirty" (V). As they get older, their legs will turn the normal red of any pigeons. However, if they are blues, (others also do but you'll see it better in the blues), the underwing feathers won't be that sort of light, almost white you get in normal blue bars, but they will be a darker gray coloration.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thanks for the info, Frank!

Terry


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## bluecheck (Aug 17, 2006)

The light toenails indicate one of two things at least: the birds are also carrying smokey and/or they will be pied.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Hi Frank*



bluecheck said:


> The light toenails indicate one of two things at least: the birds are also carrying smokey and/or they will be pied.


Do these look darker than normal dirty to you or is it just the fact that the nails are so light, the contrast makes it look darker?

Dick Cryberg has been talking about different dirty genes. It seems that there is at least one more in Europe in that one sex comes out darker than the other, seems like it was the cocks but I can't remember for sure. Dina had some photos of them. Dick thinks there may be even more of them.

Bill


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## bluecheck (Aug 17, 2006)

I think it's the contrast. If you want dark, you have tgo see baby Damascenes. As for the toenails, I misspoke above - I meant to say that with those white toenails, the bird likely either carries smoky or pied factors, rather than itself having to be a pied bird. As for more darkening factors? I absolutely agree with Dick. In fact, in the wild type itself there is a "hue" difference between male/female. In my family of race birds, I could almost 100% of time tell the dif between male/female just from the shade of blue I was looking at in the feathers. The females were a tad darker - the cocks were a tad more "blue". I don't know how else to say it, and I only noticed it after some years with that particular family of birds. 

My only real claim to "fame" is merely that I tend to notice things and pass them on to others who can actually go find out what's behind them. I've been telling folks for ages that there are other "unidentified darkening factors" (_that's a whimpy way of saying, look I see and believe that there are other things out there making our birds dark. Things that don't seem to be explained by what relatively little we do know after breeding the beasts for about 3000 years or more -- so SOMEONE please go figure it out because I can't._)


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## teebo (Jul 7, 2006)

i must say it,but baby pigeons are the most ugliest baby birds, that i have ever seen,or maybe its because i raise chickens and they are adorable after they come out of the bator and fluff all up.for something so ugly they sure do turn out to be beautiful birds.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*That's interesting Frank*



bluecheck said:


> I think it's the contrast. If you want dark, you have tgo see baby Damascenes. As for the toenails, I misspoke above - I meant to say that with those white toenails, the bird likely either carries smoky or pied factors, rather than itself having to be a pied bird. As for more darkening factors? I absolutely agree with Dick. In fact, in the wild type itself there is a "hue" difference between male/female. In my family of race birds, I could almost 100% of time tell the dif between male/female just from the shade of blue I was looking at in the feathers. The females were a tad darker - the cocks were a tad more "blue". I don't know how else to say it, and I only noticed it after some years with that particular family of birds.
> 
> My only real claim to "fame" is merely that I tend to notice things and pass them on to others who can actually go find out what's behind them. I've been telling folks for ages that there are other "unidentified darkening factors" (_that's a whimpy way of saying, look I see and believe that there are other things out there making our birds dark. Things that don't seem to be explained by what relatively little we do know after breeding the beasts for about 3000 years or more -- so SOMEONE please go figure it out because I can't._)


That you found this light and dark difference between the cocks and hens in yours as well. The birds that Dina showed were very obvious and now after thinking about it, it does seem that the hens were the darker. This prompted a discussion on sexual dimorphism among wild pigeons and the how's and why's of it. These dirties do show up in rock doves. Made for an interesting discussion. You shoulda been there.

Bill


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