# 1st Time Newbie - need direction



## Ppecker44 (Jun 10, 2020)

Hi. Newbie here. Montreal, Quebec, Canada.

Found Pidgeon on sidewalk after seeing woman replace bird at original
spot after she had removed it a day or 2 before. (she told me)

I picked up the bird the next because on sidewalk and looked lost and scared.

Aprox 15 to 20 days old. (MY FIRST TIME helping a wild bird)

Fast forward, have bird 6 day's.
Using Syringe method open end covered with nitrile glove with slit for feeding.
First 2 days on Orlux Gold Patee eggfood for Canaries and good quality dry Cat Food
---- pureed and mixed with water
Next 4 days steady diet of Tropicana Hand Feeding Formula
---- 25 to 35 cc's x 4 - 5 times daily
---- Bird loves it (goes nuts at feeding time) 5 to 10 sec's all eaten
---- Started pecking at seeds on cage floor and in heavy small glass ashtray today (wild bird blend)
---- started standing stronger 2 days ago and walking
---- not flying yet but jumped on my shoe yesterday in back yard outing
---- getting stronger every day -- so far
---- water (hasn't figured out the water bowl part yet)
---- reading info online and at this forum
---- have probiotics for cat's and ACV on hand
---- Have 4 cat's that are very curious and interested, of course.
---- poop look's pretty good ??? (watery, long brown strands, white part mushy)


Questions:

Always making nasal whistling noise / speech. Is this Normal??
Can I leave it's cage outside periodically? 
What temperature range?
Can I put some probiotic in hand feed formula?
Should I give it ACV? In water and/or hand feed formula?
Split red lentils, are these OK for bird?
Will put peas in cage in dish.
Any other suggestions or reading material?
How about Morning Bird Pigeon Grit, Hagen Pigeon and Dove Staple VME Seeds from Amazon.com?


Will post pics of bird and bird poop.



I might have gone a little too fast in changing from hand feeding to seeds.
At 2nd feeding today I gave Pepe the pigeon quite a few seeds to peck on and now Pepe's crop is more solid than before when feeding baby bird formula. Tried to give some water to soften crop contents. Pepe pooped but pretty solid and no liquid with poop.
Where do I stand, was this too fast?
Hand fed a few skinned and quartered warmed peas, and that went Ok.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

They need to drink water when they start eating seeds. Put a waterbowl in front of him and "play" with the water by using your fingers. That will get him interested. You can put the apple cider vinegar in his drinking water 2 or 3 times a week. It will help with digestion and to keep the good gut bacteria in place. He will also need grit, get some from a petshop. Dove grit will be good to start with. Don't be alarmed if he doesn't start eating it immediately, he will eventually.

You can put his cage outside during the day. Just make sure he will be safe and that hald his cage is in the shade. They can quickly overheat.

You can get probiotics and vitamins for pigeons to put in his drinking water. Wheezing when he is breathing is not a good sign. Can you post a video of him doing this?


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

You should also never force water into their beaks with a syringe, they can easily aspirate. To get him to drink by himself, you can also dip the tip of his beak (not over the nostrils) in a small bowl of water.

How is he doing now?


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## Ppecker44 (Jun 10, 2020)

*Update of my little visitor.*

Hi Marina,

Thank you for responding and for your help.
You asked about him, do you think it's a male pigeon?
He's doing good. It's a very nice experience interacting with the pigeon.
I feel like a father watching it get stronger, walking better and getting to know it's personality.

He's still not drinking the water.

Fed him 30 peas for lunch, that was not easy. He was fighting me the whole time. So I will feed him 3 times a day, is this good? His baby bird formula morning and night and peas for lunch and a few seeds here and there until I figure out when to make changes.
I am doing my best to inform myself by searching this sight and reading.

I hope I can figure out what I can do for my little feathered friend in terms of what to feed during the different stages of it's growth.

Going to try to drawing it a bath to let it clean itself. Warm water in a new baking dish.

Oh yeah, I didn't mention anything about wheezing and when I do listen to it's breathing when it's settled down, I really don't hear any wheezing during his breathing.

Thank you from me and my little feathered friend,
Martin & Pepe


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Impossible to tell at such a young age if he is male. They mature at around 5 months and the only way to know is if eggs are getting laid.

You can feed 30 to 40 peas 3 times a day. They quickly learn to eat peas by themselves, so always leave a small bowl with him. When he does start eating peas, you can add some small seeds.

They love to bath, hopefully he will start drinking water at the same time.


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## beachwood45789 (Jul 15, 2014)

Hi, get a small can like a cat food one fill it with water and dunk his beak in the water


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## Ppecker44 (Jun 10, 2020)

Hi beachwood45789

Thanks for the idea. I finally found something. A glass tupperware storage type container. Perfect size and heavier than a cat food can. Got lots of those with 4 cats. But the glass is better and Pepe (the pigeon) has shown interest in it especially after I gave him a quick bath last night. Again, Thank You.


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## Ppecker44 (Jun 10, 2020)

Hi Marina

I gave him a quick bath last night. He enjoyed it and pecked at the water a little. Found a glass container deep enough and a good size to put his drinking water in.
Gave him seeds today, 1/2 tsp and then 4 hours later 1 tsp that's beside his baby bird formula.
I'm looking for Grit, soluble and non soluble. Any suggestions for a Canadian?
And wondering why peas are the way to go? Does it matter the size or type like regular, sweet summer....?
Sorry I am so full of questions but I'm a perfectionist at heart. If your going to do it, do your best to do it right.

Thank's
Martin and Pepe.


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

A large petshop will probably stock grit, otherwise order online. The type of pea doesn't matter. Try and get something that's small and also not canned peas as they have a lot of salt. Needs to be the frozen type.


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## beachwood45789 (Jul 15, 2014)

Hi, what you need is parakeet grit since your bird is still small go to www.petco.com and in the search box type in higgins mineral grit cost is about 3$ if you can afford it the best thing you can give you baby pigeon is vita-pro-combo go to www.vitakingproducts.com in the search box type in vita pro combo cost is 18$ plus shipping but it is the best it has probiotics,electrolytes, amino acids and vitamins i have been using vita pro combo for over 10 years it is very good


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## Ppecker44 (Jun 10, 2020)

*Need Advice on Birdcage*

Hi guys. I have a 1 kg bag of frozen peas so I'm OK there and I picked up 2 boxes of oyster shell grit and a box of gravel (very fine gravel though and I think it's too fine, lost $5 bucks on that one I guess) Will have to find another insoluble grit.

He took flight today for 2 seconds and about a foot of the ground. Boy was I proud of him...LOL.

So I'm going to order a large cage....22inches by 36 inches and 57 inches high. So he'll have room to stretch his wings when he feels like it
Will this be good for awhile? $169.00 CAD on Amazon, I can handle that.

And oh yeah, I guess I should cover the cage at night so he sleeps better?

And I checked out the Vita-Pro-Combo quickly. Will have to see the cost of shipping/exchange and see if I can find something closer to home maybe....will check that out.

Thanks guys.


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## Ppecker44 (Jun 10, 2020)

*Feedings FYI*

I decided that for every feeding now I will give Pepe 10 peas (to get him used to peas at every feeding as not too stress him out too much, he keeps strongly resisting me forcing food into his mouth) and I'll work my way up as I decrease his formula.
10ml formula down from 15ml each meal
1tsp seeds
pinch of oyster shell grit
fresh water ( doesn't seem to be taking to it maybe because he's getting enough through the peas and formula)
ACV, Probiotics and Vitamins and minerals to come


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## Ppecker44 (Jun 10, 2020)

Hi Guys,

FYI. Pepe (the pigeon) has finally started eating the peas on her/his own.
I was so happy when Pepe started eating the peas (20 peas / 7 grams) at the 3rd feeding. 

Pepe's starting to fly a little and Pepe is attached to me. Think's I am the mother I guess.

In a few days I'll cut out the formula and feed 3 times per day, 30 peas.

Pepe must be about 24 or 25 days old as of today.

Martin aka Ppecker44

PS: I am so happy and blessed to have bumped into Pepe. Has me laughing....
What a Godsend !!!!!


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

I'm glad he is doing well. He can have a long happy life with you.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Hi, you are doing an excellent job with Pepe 😊 ! I'm really glad that you found each other!

I just want to say that pigeons picking blocks/pickstones are excellent sources of calcium. Depending on what you buy they could also contain insoluble grit (yes, a really fine gravel is not good for pigeons) and other ingredients like anise, clay, minerals, etc. You could have calcium plus insoluble grit in the same product. 

All my birds love them: some of them love pecking directly at the blocks, others just eat the crumbled ones. In any case, they eat them according to their needs. 

If you decide to buy one I will explain how to give it to Pepe.


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## Ppecker44 (Jun 10, 2020)

Hi Colombina,

Thank You for your suggestion. I was just about to go to this pet food shop that I had bought some products to return an unopened bag of baby bird formula that I won't need (and was going to buy some other products) because now I have Pepe on thawed frozen peas, 3 times daily @ 30 peas which he or she (not really sure yet) gobbles them right up....so funny watching Pepe and 1 teaspoon of pigeon seeds also 3 times daily but i checked here and seen your reply to my postings. I am glad I checked. I Googled pigeon picking block/pickstone and found the website Canadian Racing Pigeon Union which also has products for sale, one is a picking block. If you can check it out and let me know if this is good and see if there is anything else you might recommend I would be very grateful. Probiotics, vitamins and minerals is still something I am also looking for. I have been so fortunate to find this site and received so much great info and help from everyone here. I am so happy I picked Pepe up off the sidewalk....he/she has so brightened up my days.

Here is the website link: http://www.crpu.ca/product-category/beyers/page/2/

Any input from anyone would be appreciated.

Also wondering about deworming....should I as a precaution? Any input there?

Thanks,
Martin


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

I gave a look at the link. I found more info about the blocks composition here:

https://www.acepigeons.com/beyers/beyers-picking-block-6x650-gr


"MINERAL MIXTURE FOR PIGEONS BASED ON SEASHELL GRIT, CLAY, RED STONE, OYSTER SHELL FLOUR , STOMACH GRIT, MILLET AND BEER YEAST
Is incredibly important for the pigeon’s digestion. Grit represents the pigeon’s ‘teeth’.
Exclusively consists of natural ingredients and contains essential minerals, oligo elements and salts to complement the pigeons’ food".


The blocks contain both insoluble and soluble grit other than minerals, clay (it helps with digestion and has other benefits for birds), etc. 
It seems a good product, personally I prefer the one (pickstone 650 gr) which does not have a pot. 
If you decide to buy it I will explain how to give it to Pepe. 

VITAMINS AND LIQUID CALCIUM SUPPLEMENT

A good and complete vitamin supplement is Omni-vit Oropharma, it contains vitamins, amino acids and trace elements. You could look for something similar to it, here you can see the composition:

https://www.versele-laga.com/en/oropharma/produkte/oropharma-omni-vit

I'm used to give it together with a liquid calcium supplement, Calci-Lux Oropharma:

https://www.versele-laga.com/en/oropharma/produkte/oropharma-calci-lux

PROBIOTICS 

I like a French product called Vitaregul Francodex but surely you can't find it there. It contains B-glucans and mannan oligosaccharides.
Anyway, in my opinion probiotics for drinking water are more practical than the ones that you have to mix with food so I would look for a water soluble supplement. 


Twice a week you can give him ACV water, it helps the digestion, it acidifies the contents of the crop and discourages the multiplication of some bad bacteria, etc 

I don't have any experience with worms so I can't give you an opinion. 

You could add to his pigeon/dove mixture dried legumes (the ones for humans that you can find at supermarket) like mung beans, small lentils and split peas. You could also add a mixture for canary containing dehydrated fruits. A varied and balanced diet is really important.


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## Ppecker44 (Jun 10, 2020)

*Products found for pigeon*

Hi

I found these at the pet store I have been going to. I hope that they are OK to give to Pepe.
I also found a Bird and Exotic Animal Vet here in Montreal and called and was informed they DO accept pigeons as clients.....woohoo!!!!
Will go there to see what they have as products for birds.
Any advice, info....


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## Ppecker44 (Jun 10, 2020)

*Updated photo's of Pepe as of June 21 2020*

Here is Pepe as of June 21 2020.
I think he's looking pretty good.
Getting stronger with his flying.
Has his new cage, but I guess it's still to small for him to get any exercise except jumping from perch to perch.
So him and the cat's and I will have to share the apartment.
I am taking him out in my yard and to this park down the street for now but that'll get adventurous as soon as his flying abilities strengthen.
I guess I'll have to look at possibly closing off my balcony.

Martin and Pepe


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

He is looking good. Don't take him outside without being inside a cage. He might get spooked by something, fly away and you will never find him again. A closed off balcony will be perfect for him.


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Sorry for the late reply. 

The vitamin supplement seems a good and complete product because it contains also minerals (even calcium), amico acids and probiotics. 

Honestly I have never tried blocks for parrots. The composition looks good. Let me know if Pepe likes it. 

I'm going to explain how I give the blocks to my birds.
I crumble them (you can use a knife and/or your fingers) and put them in a separate bowl from food (see the pic). I leave the bowl always available.
When the weather is really hot and moist I have to daily replace the crumbled block in the bowl because it becomes really wet. I have this problem with blocks containing clay so maybe you will not have the same problem.

I also leave available an entire block (you only have to find a good place where to put it): I simply open one side of the carton box so my birds can peck at the block (not all of them directly peck at it). I don't know what is the consistency of your block so I can't tell you if Pepe could peck at it.

I think you can give him the products that you bought, I would not make an order. Let's see if he likes that block. Birds eat them according to their needs.

Pepe looks really good! He is really adorable!


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## Ppecker44 (Jun 10, 2020)

*Thank you.*

Thank you Colombina for the info.


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## Ppecker44 (Jun 10, 2020)

*Feeding question*

Am wondering how long do I keep feeding the thawed green peas?
Right now I am feeding Pepe 3 times a day, 30 peas and 1 teaspoon of seeds.
I'm guessing at some point I can transition to a mainly seed diet with maybe a few peas and other fruits/veggies/legumes and whatever else I can give it.
Tries raw peanuts and sunflower seeds but not accepting them yet.

Martin


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Are you still handfeeding? He is old enough to eat by himself. Just put the peas in a small bowl and keep on pushing them around with your finger until he starts pecking at them and eating them. Then you can start adding some small seeds. Don't be alarmed if he eats more than 30 peas, just always keep his bowl full. He will know when to stop.


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## Ppecker44 (Jun 10, 2020)

*Feeding*

Hi Marina,

I have stopped hand feeding Pepe or maybe Peggy (I think). It's over 1 week since I've been putting the peas in a bowl and 1 tsp seeds in another bowl. I'm just wondering:
1 - how long do I keep on giving the peas?
2 - Do I eventually phase the peas out and just have the pigeon on a mainly seed diet?

Martin


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Hi Martin,

does he eat the seeds in the bowl? In my opinion, if he eats them, he does not need defrosted peas. I would stop them and I would leave available a bowl filled with a large variety of seeds (I'm used to buy pigeon/dove mixtures of different brands) and dried legumes (small lentils, split peas and mung beans). You can add even a mixture for canary containing dehydrated fruits. As for humans, a varied and balanced diet is very important. 
If you notice that for any reason he does not eat enough seeds (because he is not used to them), put back some peas in a bowl but gradually reduce them and increase the seeds (you can start to use a small cat bowl filled with seeds then use a plastic rectangular flower pot saucer). 
When I had baby pigeons, I always left available a bowl filled with seeds even if I was still feeding them. I attach a photo of babies Aurora and Hastings 😊. 

My birds don't eat fruits or vegetables, I tried to give them small pieces of apple, etc (as suggested by my vet) but they simply ignored them 😅. If you decide to give to Pepe (or Peggy 😉 ) some fruits, berries or veggies remember to not leave them available for long time because they easily go mouldy (especially with hot weather and humidity).


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

Don't limit the amount of seed she is eating. They know when to stop.


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## Ppecker44 (Jun 10, 2020)

*Thanks for the info.*

Hi.

Just want to say thank you for replying and sharing your experience, knowledge and time.

Martin and Pepe

PS. Have to find out the sex. Yesterday it just started walking backwards in circles with the head tilted before letting go a poop. I think that that might be a clue. Have to reread about sexing the bird.


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## Ppecker44 (Jun 10, 2020)

*Pigeon Question*

Is it normal that the areas where the pigeon rests, that there is always dead skin folicles....kinda like dandruff?

My pigeon seems to rest or sleep alot, is this normal?

How much time 'out of it's cage to fly / exercise' is recommended per day?

Martin


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## Marina B (May 5, 2011)

The dandruff is normal, it will eventually disappear when he gets older. Pigeons do sleep a lot, thats normal. As long as he is eating well then no need to worry.


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## Ppecker44 (Jun 10, 2020)

*Outdoor fly time and Grit question*

Hi,

1. - I was wondering if I can use some of the grit / gravel I see feral pigeons pecking at? There is an area near my house frequented by a really large flock and they're always pecking at the pathways there.

2. - I was wondering about letting the pigeon outdoors for some fly time. I can imagine the risks, predators, insensitive humans, traffic... Can the pigeon become accustom to outdoor / indoor life?

Martin


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## Colombina (Jan 22, 2017)

Hi Martin,

2) yes, he could become accustomed to that kind of life but personally I would not let him flying outside. 
I know a person who made that choice, the pigeon died in less than an year and the person regretted it.
That's just my own opinion, of course. Other people could have different opinions. In any case it's you who must make the choice. 

1) I would not give him that grit/gravel. If he doesn't like the block for parrot, you can try the pickstone that you found on the website of the Canadian Racing Pigeon Union. It is safer than gravel/grit coming from outside. I remember that it contains both insoluble and soluble grit, other than clay, etc.


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## Ppecker44 (Jun 10, 2020)

*Two observations I'm curious about*

Hi.

Was wondering about:

1. I notice that sometimes Pepe the pigeon  will sometimes just quickly open and close his beak 3 to 5 times, not making any sound and might do this a few times. Just a pigeon thing??

2. Now this one I'm wondering about. When Pepe grooms his feather's, he might really do it vigorously and then stamp his feet a little like he's trying to shake something off and sometimes his hinds quarters will vibrate looking like it's also trying to shake something off. Anything I might have to look out for??

Martin and Pepe


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