# Found injured pigeon 1 hr ago in Michigan



## neutrinotao (Sep 26, 2010)

I saw a pigeon flopping around in the road with cars driving right over it. Someone stopped traffic for me so I could get the pigeon out of the road. He's been with me for about an hour.

This pigeon is in pain. He isn't moving, unless I move him. He is definitely alive, but he doesn't move unless I touch him. I have been reading this site and I put a hot water bottle, wrapped in a towel, in a large bird cage. I placed some old jeans in with him and placed him right next to the water bottle. He keeps wanting to curl his head behind his back. I think (I don't know anything about birds) that he has a broken leg. Maybe more injuries too. When I moved him from the shopping bag to the cage his wings were spread out, and he just laid there. I decided that he didn't look comfortable so I rearranged him so that his wings were in next to his body. He pushed out with his good leg and looked like maybe he was more comfortable. I placed a cup of water in the cage with him, but he's not at all interested. He is just laying there. 

I have covered three sides of the cage with a blanket and placed the cage in the downstairs bathroom where he can have privacy. 

I have two cats.

I don't have any money to take him to a vet. (I haven't had a paycheck since July). 

Is there anyone who can refer me to someone who can help this bird? I am in Clinton Twp, Michigan.

I'll do what I can for him, but I think he needs more help than I have the ability to give him. I have nursed other birds back to health before and released them, because I was never able to find anyone who was willing to help them in my area. They just basically needed time, food, and water which was easy for me to give them. I am worried about this pgieon though, because I've never seen one so lethargic before. Maybe he is just really scared?

Thank-you.


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## tipllers rule (Aug 2, 2010)

were are you located and can you post some pics


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## neutrinotao (Sep 26, 2010)

tipllers rule said:


> were are youocated and can you post some pics


I just found a camera that might work. I'll try to post some pics. In my original post I indicated that I am in Clinton Twp, MI.


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## tipllers rule (Aug 2, 2010)

any idea whats wrong with it


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## neutrinotao (Sep 26, 2010)

The camera doesn't have a flash and the pictures came out real dark. I can't even see the pigeon clearly in them.


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## Nictorious Ali (Jul 1, 2010)

I live in troy I might be able to help you. I cant get the bird from you until wed though.


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## Nictorious Ali (Jul 1, 2010)

It most likely got hit by a car.


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## tipllers rule (Aug 2, 2010)

iam in fenton which is a little closer and i could get it tomorrow probably


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Just bring a Lamp over to the Bird to get more Light.


Good images of the Bird...and good, close up, in focus images of any so-far poops.


Mix a pinch of Salt a pinch of Sugar and a pinch of Baking Soda into room temperature Water...stirr so all is dissolved...offer that in some small inch and a half deep custard dish or similar for him to drink out of.


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## neutrinotao (Sep 26, 2010)

Fenton, MI is one hour from me, and Troy, MI is 20 minutes from me, so you're definitely further away. However, if you can get the pigeon tomorrow, it's probably better for the pigeon. The poor thing needs care that I don't know how to provide. Will you drive to Clinton Twp to pick it up?


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## tipllers rule (Aug 2, 2010)

can it move its legs or wing


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## neutrinotao (Sep 26, 2010)

pdpbison said:


> Just bring a Lamp over to the Bird to get more Light.
> 
> 
> Good images of the Bird...and good, close up, in focus images of any so-far poops.
> ...



_ There has been no poop. The bird just isn't moving. When I open the cage door to try to photograph it, it flinches. That's all the movement it is doing right now. I feel bad opening the cage door. He's not even opening his eyes now. But, he is breathing. 

Since he isn't moving, I am doubting that he plans to drink. 

I just got some photos that might work. I'm attaching them. _


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Get them into more of a 'Do-Nut' seat, softly roll a small Towel, then bend it into a "U" or bend it almost into a circle...and set them in that.


Then, keeping their Head in a normal position...allow their Beak to dip into the tepid electrolyte Water...do this a few times, just raise the Water Bowl to their Beak so the Beak dips in for a moment only...do not keep the Beak in if they are not obviously drinking.

If they start rinking, let them drink for a count of "five", then pull the Water Bowl away, wait ten seconds, and repeat for them to sip some more...and, see if they will drink.

If they do drink, allow four 'five' second sessions, then repeat again in a half hour.


Just be very gentle, and keep them in a normal position while doing this and for a few moments after.


If they are unconscious, then skip it...but, if they are conscious, it is very likely they are desperately dehydrated, and, a sipping session now, and, then every thirty minutes for the next few hours might save them.

Post poop images soon as there are any...


Let us know how the sipping sessions go.


Phil
Lv


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## neutrinotao (Sep 26, 2010)

tipllers rule said:


> can it move its legs or wing


Yes, it can move its legs and wing(s). He's kind of laying on the second wing so it's hard to tell if it moves well or not. The first one is able to open all the way and flap up. I just saw it move both legs, but when I saw him flopping in the road he was just trying to stand on one leg..


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## tipllers rule (Aug 2, 2010)

is it possible to meet me half way at around three


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## tipllers rule (Aug 2, 2010)

hello are you there


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Did you see my Post outlining rehydration? - is it Post # 13

If you don't do this you are going to loose him.


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## neutrinotao (Sep 26, 2010)

pdpbison said:


> Get them into more of a 'Do-Nut' seat, softly roll a small Towel, then bend it into a "U" or bend it almost into a circle...and set them in that.
> 
> 
> Then, keeping their Head in a normal position...allow their Beak to dip into the tepid electrolyte Water...do this a few times, just raise the Water Bowl to their Beak so the Beak dips in for a moment only...do not keep the Beak in if they are not obviously drinking.
> ...


He definitely does not want to be in a donut position. I think it hurts him. So, I let him lie like he wanted (just like in the pictures with his head kind of twisted up) and used a medicine dropper to slowly drip water onto his beak. At first he swallowed occasionally and then he started swallowing more eagerly. I'm not sure exactly how much he took since most of it dripped down his beak, but I did fill the droppper three times. I'll try again in 30 minutes.


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## tipllers rule (Aug 2, 2010)

so can you meet half way


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## neutrinotao (Sep 26, 2010)

I did get him to drink. I just posted about it. I wasn't sure how much sugar, salt, and baking soda to use, so I just put a pinch of each in around 1 cup of water. Is this okay?


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## tipllers rule (Aug 2, 2010)

hello c]i can take him if we meet half way


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## neutrinotao (Sep 26, 2010)

I can meet half way. Would around Bloomfield Hills be half way? In particular Square Lake Road and Woodward? There are gas stations and stores on the corner. We could pick one to meet at. It's easy to get to from I-75.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi nutrinotao,


Did you make up an Electrolyte Solution - as described - with tepid ( close to body temperature ) Water?


PLEASE do NOT use an 'Eye Dropper' - steady and position his Head, and, bring the Cup of Water up to his Beak as described.

Dribbling Water in can kill him if it gets into his Trachea, and with a compromised Pigeon like this, it probably will, as well as that it is totally ineffecient as a delivery method, compared to him actually Drinking.


Best wishes!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## tipllers rule (Aug 2, 2010)

sorry no can do sorry for your time 
hope some body else can help


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## tipllers rule (Aug 2, 2010)

This is tipplers rules mom. We've nursed some birds back to health after animal attacks... I'm a nurse and will try my best, but he may not make it through the night. Looking at his droppings is a great idea. Call me in the morning (I will PM you with my #) and if he is still alive and you can meet me at 3 a few exits up from square lake we'll take him.


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## neutrinotao (Sep 26, 2010)

tipllers rule said:


> This is tipplers rules mom. We've nursed some birds back to health after animal attacks... I'm a nurse and will try my best, but he may not make it through the night. Looking at his droppings is a great idea. Call me in the morning (I will PM you with my #) and if he is still alive and you can meet me at 3 a few exits up from square lake we'll take him.


Okay, a few exits up from square lake will work. I received a message you were PM'ing me, but my pop up blocker blocked it and then when I said to download it, it didn't show it.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

So...where are we at on the rehydration?


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## neutrinotao (Sep 26, 2010)

pdpbison said:


> Hi nutrinotao,
> 
> 
> Did you make up an Electrolyte Solution - as described - with tepid ( close to body temperature ) Water?
> ...


Yes, I used tepid water. I tried not using an eyedropper, but he refused to cooperate. I wrapped him in a shirt to hold him to bring him the cup of water and he keeps arching his head backwards. I tried putting his beak to the water, but he was upside down and he wouldn't drink. He was more fiesty this time, probably because he had some water earlier. So, I gave him more water by eyedropper. I didn't give him as much as 30 minutes ago since he didn't seem as interested, but he did take some. Is it better to try with eyedropper, or should I skip the water altogether? I can keep trying with the cup first, but then should I give up or switch to the dropper?

It's really weird how he arches his head back whenever I touch him. It's automatic. When I was holding his body upright, he arched his head all the way back, so that it looked like he didn't have a head. It's his head arching that makes water delivery so difficult.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

It is too dangerous for him to have Water from an eye Dropper.


Just be as slow and gentle as possible, steady his head for his Head and Body to be in a normal position...and keep trying.


Any poops yet?


Anyway, the shape he is in, it is hard to say what all is going on or what happened....but, being dehydrated can kill them, and so these efforts are important.

Forcing or dribbling Water in is no good...he needs to drink Volentarily.

Possibly he has nerve injuries from a Car strike or other mishap...he is also afraid and upset, and may require some patient perseverence for having him drink.


He may have PPMV, or other illbness, and have been starving and dehydrating for days, and crashed or been hit by a Car trying to fly...


So...keep trying...and try and have his Body and Head in a normal position for his Drinking, since otherwise he could aspirate the Water and die from it.


Once you get it worked out, he will be easier for further repetitions.


A dehydrated Pigeon needs to be rehydrated over twelve or fourteen hours...they might dribnk 6 or 7 ounces of liquid in that time over however many small sipping sessions...this has to precede any further things or medications anyway.


Since you report no poops/urates, we have to assume he is dehydrated...and probably very seriously so.


Dehydration alone can account for the symptoms you are seeing of the co-ordination troubles and laying with stiff legs out to the side and so on.


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## neutrinotao (Sep 26, 2010)

pdpbison said:


> It is too dangerous for him to have Water from an eye Dropper.
> 
> 
> Just be as slow and gentle as possible, steady his head fo rhis Head to be in a normal position...and keep trying.
> ...


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

PPMV is a Virus they can get...it is not communicable to people or Mammals, but, for Birds, or Pigeons, it can assume a variety of symptoms, some of which prevent the Bird from being co-ordinated enough to fly well, where, they then get hurt crashing into things...and, this also usually has a 'twisty' aspect where the Bird twists their neck and head and can not eat or drink well without help to steady them.


Injury can also cause twisting or Leg or co-ordination and posture problems, as can other illness or dehydration...so, these also can combine of course.


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## neutrinotao (Sep 26, 2010)

Okay, things are looking up. We have two poops. One is a long black stripe, which is really green when I cleaned it with a paper towel. The other poop is a big white blotch with a black stripe down the middle. Photos attached.

He's still doing the weird head thing though. I added a picture to show what he's doing. I got him to get into a normal position for about 20 seconds before he reverted back to the twisted upside down arched head position. At least he opens his eyes now.

He only took two voluntary sips.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi nutrinotao,


Excellent!!


Keep on trying with the rehydration 'sipping' volentary-drinking.

If he can drink a few ounces or more, over the next few hours, all the better for him, and for to-morrow's continued efforts.


We shall see how he continues to respond till you do the Hand-Off to-morrow.


This re-hydration, difficult as it sometimes is with a frieghtened, injured Pigeon, is often a crucial, Life-Saving procedure, without which they would not last till morning...so...keep on it..!



Glad to see those Urates and the old skinny had-been-stagnated poo coming out.


Phil
Lv


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## neutrinotao (Sep 26, 2010)

If the pigeon has the PPMV will he get better? 

Is head is still all twisty, and he can't straighten himself out. I straightened him a few times but he gets all upset. And it's so hard for him to drink upside down.

And I don't know if the hand off is going to happen since I didn't receive any information. They didn't PM me back after my pop up blocked them. I really hope someone can help this pigeon.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

I am sure you two will be able to co-ordinate to-morrow...maybe PM your telephone Number to them.


We do not know if this Pigeon has PPMV...very possibly they do not.


For now, they need re-hydration, and to be supported/assisted to drink from a normal posture and head position.

Do NOT attempt to have them drink while their Head is upsidedown or in unusual postures...assist them and steady them to be in a fairly normal posture when offering the re-hydration solution.


Symptms of dehydration alone can take a full day or more to resolve, two days even, assuming the igeon is in fact drinking enough every half hour or so, and drinking volitionally...untill then, we can not evaluate what these co-ordination issues mean.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Can you post some fairly close images of his profile and front view of his face?


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## eternal (Feb 13, 2010)

Don't forget salmonella, I had a couple of pigeons completely paralzyed and with head twisting.


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## tipllers rule (Aug 2, 2010)

neutrinotao said:


> Okay, a few exits up from square lake will work. I received a message you were PM'ing me, but my pop up blocker blocked it and then when I said to download it, it didn't show it.


sorry heres my e-mail [email protected]


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## neutrinotao (Sep 26, 2010)

*New photos and please contact me to take the pigeon*

Oh great. My ten yo daughter was hospitalized for salmonella for five days when she was younger. I don't need to be bringing this into the house. Will someone PM me a name and number that I can contact please? I can't figure out how to PM the "tipplers rule". 

I just started a new job. I haven't even received my first pay check yet. I really need someone to take this bird. I just don't have time for the amout of care he needs and I am definitely not asking my daughter to help now. 

The bird is alive, and seems well enough other than the twisty head thing. He hasn't eaten since I've had him. I don't have any frozen vegetables or seed. I can get some later today. 

He's letting me do more with him now, though he's still driving me nuts. I was able to wrap the jeans around him in such a way that it holds his head correctly and I'm leaning him against the side of the cage to hold is his head up while I'm away. The jean wrap keeps him from flapping open his wings which automatically throws him upside down with the twisty head. 

He just sleeps until I water him. He doesn't seem to move at all. 

When I try to wrap him in something to get him to drink he flops all over the place. 

He has had more good white poops.

I can water him again before I leave for work, but after that he'll have to wait until I get home.

I will try to call some bird places today, but from what I've read on this list is that most of them will put him down if he has a virus. I don't want that, so somebody PLEASE contact me so that I can hand this bird off.

I've attached photos of his twisty head. Both photos are of him in the exact same position. One is closer up. 

Thank-you.


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## neutrinotao (Sep 26, 2010)

*Thanks for the e-mail address*



tipllers rule said:


> sorry heres my e-mail [email protected]


Thanks for the e-mail address. I sent you my cell number.


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## neutrinotao (Sep 26, 2010)

Before I left for work the pigeon had unwrapped itself from the jean wrap and was laying with his head twisted again.


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## neutrinotao (Sep 26, 2010)

*I can meet at 3*

Yes, I can meet you half way at around 3. Will I be meeting you or your mother? Also, does your mother know that you are making these arrangements?


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## neutrinotao (Sep 26, 2010)

*The update*

I left work early to check on my patient. He is doing very well. He's awake and alert. He's stronger physically. He doesn't like me straightening his head when he drinks. He is drinking voluntarily though his head tries to twist when he's drinking, but I'm able to hold it steady till he's done.

I have raw shelled pumpkin seeds. Could I break them into small bits and feed him that? I'll go to the store later and get the recommended frozen corn, but would this be okay in the meantime?

Here's a new photo that shows the twist more clearly (I think anyway).

He does try to move, but he can't coordinate because of his twisty head and neck. He just smooshes himself into a corner.


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## neutrinotao (Sep 26, 2010)

He tried to get away from me twice so far and each time he managed to correct himself for a few minutes. Yayy! I think this is a good sign. He just got himself stuck in a corner of the cage with his head untwisted, so I left him be. I figured that the corner holding his head closer to correct is going to help retrain his muscles or something. 

I tried to give him small crumbss of pita bread, but he wasn't at all interested. I have left them in the cage for him. But, he doesn't show any signs of interest in eating. I even tried to wet the bread, but that didn't help.

I have to leave the bird again for a long time. I tried to find a neighbor to care for him but everyone said no. The "tipllers rule" haven't contacted me again since the 3 pm suggestion, so I won't be able to make that meeting time because I would have to bring the bird with me now to make that happen. I wonder if I can fit the cage in the car....hmmmm, maybe I can do that. It's not too cold out today, so with the hotwater bottle he might be warm enough if I had to leave him in the car for a long time.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Images of the poops as they are now?


Good work on the drinking/rehydration..!


This does not seem like Salmonella.


Anyway, lets hope tiplersrule comes through.


To "PM' someone, just click on their name.


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## Nictorious Ali (Jul 1, 2010)

I dont mind helping you if you dont get help by Wed or Tues night.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Unfortunately, this Pigeon needs someone of experience to begin literally, hands-on helping now.


It is one thing to manage a rehydration for the first day...after that, there is a huge amount of other things which need to be done if this Bird is going to live.



If the drinking thing is going good enough, are you ( nutrinotao ) willing to go to Petsmart and to a Health Food Store to get some things?


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## Nictorious Ali (Jul 1, 2010)

Ill be honest im no expert in pathology of birds but I do have a good 15 yrs of experience with handeling all sorts of fowl. I have a glass incubator with a light on top of it( more or less for reptiles). And I dont mind getting my hands dirty . Oh I also happen to know a vet!


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## neutrinotao (Sep 26, 2010)

*The hand off is tonight*

Tipllers rule and his mom are taking the bird tonight at around 7 pm. It sounds like they are willing to give the bird the care he needs. 

Nictorious Ali, thanks for the offer, but the bird won't make it till tomorrow night in my care. I am working 12 hours tomorrow, and there's no way for me to get home to hydrate him. I was fortunte to come home early for awhile today. I stayed up with him most of the night since I knew I would be gone all morning. I can't do that again. I'm exhausted. 

He does really well when I am home and hydrating him ever 1/2 hour. He even tries to stand on his own and manages it for like 45 seconds before toppling. I was gone for four hours this afternoon and he was clearly in worse condition. But, now that I've been home for awhile he's perked right up again. He even tried to stand after 2 hydration sessions. His wing push against my hands is stronger too.

His poops are big white splotches with dark splotch in the middle. I cleaned his cage before checking the email so I can't give a fresh photo. 

He needs food. He's going to be weak because of a lack of food. I haven't the slightest idea of how to encourage him to eat, so I'm hoping tipllers rule and his mom know how. 

pdpbison please go ahead and provide a list the supplies he needs, and I'll make sure to print it out before I leave for the hand off so they know what they can pick up for him on their way home.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

If you have or can get some unsweetened Fruit Juice, he could be drinking that now, and it would be a good thing...should be like say, Black Cherry Juice or Elderberry Juice or Cranberry...Pineapple even would be fine - any Health Food store would have.


I would go to Petsmart and get a tube of 'Nutrical' or 'Nutristart' it is a brown 'goo' in a plastic Tube ( Puppy and Kitten Isle ) and a container of "KT" Baby Bird formula powder.


I would go to a Health Food Store and get a small Bottle of Goji-Berry Juice or Black Cherry Juice concentrate.


I would mix these three ( Nutrical or Nutristart, KT, Black Cherry or Goji Juice concentrate ) initially in about equal proportions using 3 Tablespoon-per-gallon "ACV-Water" to mix it with, make the formula 'thin', make it in a Tea Cup, and freeze it...thaw in a Saucepan of warm Water, and warm to about body temperature...check consistency, add more ACV-Water if need be, so it is about like melted Ice Cream on a Hot Day...and Tube feed this as liquid food for the next couple days...small meals, like say, 20 cc/ml over the course of a long day, 5cc/ml at-a-time, every 4 hours.


I would continue to offer plain Water, tepid, between meals as well.


Day 2, 30 cc/ml, of formula, three meals, 10 cc/ml at a time...one meal every five hours.

If all seems well enough, then steadying his Head, him on a Lap Towel, I would see if he can peck small whole Seeds with assistance.


A good, broad spectrum Antibiotic might be good to have him on also, such as Enroflaxyn / Baytril or a triple Sulfa...in addition to the Metronidazole.


Like that...


Phil
Lv


If the Urates are like white 'paint', rather than being a solid 3 dimensional 'Paste', I wold consider to use Metronidazole and have him on it for 5 Days.


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## tipllers rule (Aug 2, 2010)

will the formula fill in for food and is there a way i can get him full through liquids


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

tipllers rule said:


> will the formula fill in for food and is there a way i can get him full through liquids


Formula is "food".


Also, this Pigeon has been pretty well starving for who knows how long...so his nourishment now must be slow and gradual and progressive.

Too many Calories too fast, and you can kill him.


Liquid Foods are still "Foods"...


You do not want to "fill" this Pigeon any time soon...his food intake needs to be modest and progressive for several days...then one could try him with smallest size whole seeds with assisted pecking...while continueing with Formula for the rest of a week or so, depending.



Phil
Lv


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## neutrinotao (Sep 26, 2010)

*Thank-you*

I just wanted to say thank-you to pdpbison for being so kind and patient sharing information on how to care for the pigeon with me. Thanks to you this pigeon has a chance. It's also a nice reminder of what a wonderful species humans can be when we want to be. I like the affirmation. 

When I was driving the pigeon (a.k.a. grumpy old man and big guy) I was a little worried that he might end up with people who know even less about pigeons than me. But, when I saw tipplers rule and his mom handle the pigeon I knew he was in the right hands. I was probably killing the poor thing with love.  

Thank-you for taking the pigeon to your home and caring for him. You are very special people. If the pigeon can make it, he will with you guys. Just remember to ask pdpbison for help if you need it and trust his/her advice. I'll keep reading the list.


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## neutrinotao (Sep 26, 2010)

neutrinotao said:


> I just wanted to say thank-you to pdpbison for being so kind and patient sharing information on how to care for the pigeon with me. Thanks to you this pigeon has a chance. It's also a nice reminder of what a wonderful species humans can be when we want to be. I like the affirmation.
> 
> When I was driving the pigeon (a.k.a. grumpy old man and big guy) I was a little worried that he might end up with people who know even less about pigeons than me. But, when I saw tipplers rule and his mom handle the pigeon I knew he was in the right hands. I was probably killing the poor thing with love.
> 
> Thank-you for taking the pigeon to your home and caring for him. You are very special people. If the pigeon can make it, he will with you guys. Just remember to ask pdpbison for help if you need it and trust his/her advice. I'll keep reading the list.


Sorry Phil. I said his/her above. It should just say his.  I just realized you signed the feeding regimen post.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Lol...that's fine...


Thanks for all you did there with this Pigeon, you had to hit-the-ground-running, and you did real good.


It's a handull..!


Phil
Las Vegas


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