# I have kept 6 "feral" pigeons- Is that ok(They weren't sick or injured)



## Pigeon80error (Sep 25, 2010)

Hey guys i was wondering if its ok to keep unharmed and not disseased "feral" pigeons- I used to keep 6 "feral" pigeons and they became really tame, they ate from my hand and walked on my arm. We also had a pair- The female was too young so it couldn't develop any eggs.
SO i was wondering if it is ok.

-Dan


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

I cannot think of any good reason to take healthy, free-flying pigeons off the streets just to keep them as 'pets'.

Providing ferals with food/water and a place to roost, provided they are free to come and go when they like, would be a different matter.

John


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## maniac (Sep 27, 2009)

I don't see anything wrong with it at all and I don't agree with John D.

Many people take in and care for feral cats and homeless dogs, rabbits etc .... so what's the difference if it's pigeons, they are not native to N.A.

If you enjoy them and enjoy taking care of them go ahead, you will probably double their life span by doing it.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

I tend to agree with John. You are a bit unclear on how you acquired them. 

But before I go further...Dan...it was big of you to ask that question here. Quite seriously.

Now....

If they were saved/rescued young ones, that may be OK. But if they were trapped/caught...then ....no. 

Maniac, you must make that distinction. Formerly feral dogs and cats are mammals, and they may either make the decision to come in, or not (i.e. a homeless cat who just comes to the feeding bowl outside the door everyday; but will venture no further into human territory than that). 

If it is a situation where the pigeons were caught or 'tricked' into capture...then this is wrong.

There are so many injured/unreleasable Ferals in the world; if you want to keep some and give them a good home, a place such as this Forum would applaud and welcome you.

But keeping captured Ferals....not.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Now, with that said...the moment after I posted the above, I went out front to check on my buddy Edgar, who I had released last week after nursing back to health, from emaciation. He was there on the window ledge...with his feet completely glued to his body (and the ledge) in roofing tar. After 5 minutes of stressing and chasing, he (whether wisely or luckily) landed on my porch and literally was unable to take off...feet stuck to each other and to the deck.

40 minutes and one very messy, smelly kitchen later...he is drying off in the sun in my living room; with several less feathers on his chest and abdomen.....

So much for me on my high-horse. I still believe healthy Ferals should have the opportunity to live that life (humans welcome to befriend and aid them)...but it was just a quick reminder of the perils such a life brings with it; and I can see how someone might, in their eyes, want to 'help' a pigeon avoid those dangers....


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Pigeon80error said:


> Hey guys i was wondering if its ok to keep unharmed and not disseased "feral" pigeons- I used to keep 6 "feral" pigeons and they became really tame, they ate from my hand and walked on my arm. We also had a pair- The female was too young so it couldn't develop any eggs.
> SO i was wondering if it is ok.
> 
> -Dan




If they are tame and human identified, in my opinion it would be cruel to let them go because they haven't developed any survival skills.

It would be wonderful if you are able to supply them with an area where they can go outside and get some fresh air even if that is only a window cage that is attached to the outside and opens from the inside.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Dan - I'm not clear on where the ferals came from? Were they abandoned youngsters you took in, or 'captured' birds? The point Charis made is indeed valid if they were pretty much raised by you. 

John


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

I would say it was alright if they are free to come and go as they please. But if you went to the park and caught a few and locked them up then no way. I have my one coop that is just a mix of everything and they are out almost all day long. The only time I lock then up is at night and when I'm doing stuff with my race team. Well there's a flock that lives on the church by me and a bunch of them chose to move in with my misfits as I call them. I'm not keeping them here against their will so I don't see any problem. The guys at the club say I'm crazy and that I'm gonna get my birds sick from them but they don't know what they are talking about those feral are probly healthier then thier race birds. Plus I beat those guys that say that 90% of the time anyway.


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## Pigeon80error (Sep 25, 2010)

Charis said:


> If they are tame and human identified, in my opinion it would be cruel to let them go because they haven't developed any survival skills.
> 
> It would be wonderful if you are able to supply them with an area where they can go outside and get some fresh air even if that is only a window cage that is attached to the outside and opens from the inside.


They did have a chance to get outside for some fresh air, they flew around and ate seeds from the lawn.

-Dan


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## Pigeon80error (Sep 25, 2010)

Jaye said:


> I tend to agree with John. You are a bit unclear on how you acquired them.
> 
> But before I go further...Dan...it was big of you to ask that question here. Quite seriously.
> 
> ...


 I'm stupid i didn't use any traps though- Hi everybody! I'm STUPID!

-Dan


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## GimpieLover (Dec 18, 2005)

I wouldn't say you were stupid at all. You just most likely hadn't thought about it before you did it. You did ask though...That says a lot right there. 
as one who has unreleasable birds, or ferals I have tried to release...(a few times..even after I moved to a new house lol) who just wont seem to go anywhere but right back in my darn back door...I wouldn't ever intentionally catch a wild animal to keep as a pet. As horrible as life can be in the wild for some, I think it should be there choice. Are you willing to let them free fly? build a loft, feed, water, love, but let them out each morning. If they come back, which with basic piji spoiling (e.i. food water and shelter) they are quite likely to.


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## If I had Wings (Jun 17, 2010)

*they deserve their freedom*

There is absolutely no way that a person can provide the same quality of life that these birds would have living by their wits outdoors. Basically you are kidnapping and imprisoning them. Pigeons are so intelligent, life provided by humans just isn't stimulating enough. They did not evolve to be dependent on humans in a captive situation. They deserve the right to self determination and the right to fly free. If you really want pigeons adopt captive bred birds. If you had wings wouldn't you want to soar? And don't you enjoy going where you want to, when you want to? Not to mention breeding. Just like all species these birds deserve the right reproduce, or at least try their luck at it, and not have their eggs switched or their young growing up in captivity. Feral pigeons have enough to deal with from humans. We don't have to be grabbing healthy ones off of the street as well.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

life of a feral is very short, and all rock doves here in the US are from domestic stock... so I don't see what the big deal is.. warm loft, food..vs.. cold, searching for food, sickness... I vote for giving them a good home with fresh air and baths...JMO


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

spirit wings said:


> life of a feral is very short, and all rock doves here in the US are from domestic stock... so I don't see what the big deal is.. warm loft, food..vs.. cold, searching for food, sickness... I vote for giving them a good home with fresh air and baths...JMO


I agree. I think I read on here somewhere that the average lifespan of a feral pigeon is two years or less. Compare that to the fifteen to twenty years that it could have as a "captive bird." Seems like a no brainer to me.

Besides, it seems that he already has these six pigeons. Shouldn't we be advising him on ways to keep them happy and healthy, and how to give them a good life?


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## If I had Wings (Jun 17, 2010)

*Pondering their mortality*

I don't personally think that a feral pigeon spends even one moment pondering it's mortality. And yes they are decendents of domesticated birds in this country but they did not evolve to be domesticated by humans. They were free first. And who are we to say that 20 years in captivity is better than a short life in the wild. Maybe someone who has spent 20 years in captivity can give us an answer as to what they prefered. We have done a lot of horrible things to the other animal species on this planet in order to make our human existence easier. It is wrong to make captive, wild born animals to satisfy our emotional needs.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

We have rescued ferals that could have been released but during their time here they mated with disabled pigeons so they remained. We have one white pigeon that landed on the aviary and refused to leave so we had to take her in...during the first week of her quarantine she was sending "Barkis is willing" messages to the disabled racer in the adjacent cage and they have been inseparable ever since. We also kept a squeaker who returned two days after release and tried to roost clinging to the aviary wire.

*Of course* I would prefer people who want to offer a home to feral pigeons to take in those that are disabled, or have severe string injuries, but I can't say that a life of starvation, persecution and (almost inevitably) early death is the better option. My objections to anyone picking up a perfectly healthy feral and taking it home would be more to do with the fact that pigeons breed all year round and that there might be two squabs in the nest that will die because a single parent is unable to look after them.


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## If I had Wings (Jun 17, 2010)

*not ours for the taking*

What absolute arrogance to assume that it is completely okay to remove a wild animal from its natural life because "we want it". Pigeons are not possessions. I believe that pigeons deserve the same protection as native species. It would not be acceptable to pick up a morning dove and make it your pet. It is equally unacceptable to do this to feral pigeons. Unfortunately there are no laws to prevent it.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

If I had Wings said:


> What absolute arrogance to assume that it is completely okay to remove a wild animal from its natural life because "we want it". Pigeons are not possessions.* I believe that pigeons deserve the same protection as native species.* It would not be acceptable to pick up a morning dove and make it your pet. It is equally unacceptable to do this to feral pigeons. Unfortunately there are no laws to prevent it.


But their NOT protected and they are fair game to every abusive person they come too close to. That's why it's up to us, as decent human beings to protect them.
Once an injured feral pigeon is rehabilitated, it is usually released by people. But if you knew anything about pigeons.......you would know that most DON'T choose to leave!
What about the domestic breeds, say, Pouters and Fantails? Are we suppose to let them all free to fly also?


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

If I had Wings said:


> What absolute arrogance to assume that it is completely okay to remove a wild animal from its natural life because "we want it". Pigeons are not possessions. I believe that pigeons deserve the same protection as native species. It would not be acceptable to pick up a morning dove and make it your pet. It is equally unacceptable to do this to feral pigeons. Unfortunately there are no laws to prevent it.


Taking in a pigeon that isn't going anywhere is somewhat different to just grabbing one off the street, you know! As Feefo said, one good reason not to just 'capture' a pigeon is that it may have young to care for. If the bird is sick or injured, or very young and unable to fend for itself, of course, that's different. 

I think you have a point in your mention of 'protected' species. Would one feel OK about catching a band-tailed pigeon? A chickadee? I doubt it. But then they would be hard to grab and would probably not thrive in captivity.

Aside from the legalities, of course, feral pigeons are different in that they are naturally 'semi-domesticated' through generations of an affinity with man being bred into them, whereas true wild rock doves as found in a few places in Europe are indeed wild birds.

The idea of the pigeons having the freedom of the skies is a little humourous in a sense. They do, but ferals around here spend most of the day hanging out on roofs across the street, foraging on lawns and gardens or looking for handouts, then going to roost - all within about one square mile. Their flight is usually a couple of laps round the apartment block twice a day. Indeed, I sometimes refer to my balcony as my aviary without wire, when some of the locals roost and lounge on it so much 

John


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## garacari (Apr 26, 2010)

If I had Wings said:


> What absolute arrogance to assume that it is completely okay to remove a wild animal from its natural life because "we want it". Pigeons are not possessions. I believe that pigeons deserve the same protection as native species. It would not be acceptable to pick up a morning dove and make it your pet. It is equally unacceptable to do this to feral pigeons. Unfortunately there are no laws to prevent it.


Just as unfortunate, many rehabs centers will not accept pigeons (along with European Starlings and House Sparrows) since they are considered invasive species. Well meaning members of the public are often found in the position of rehabbing birds on their own. And, yes, many rehabs pigeons have no interest in leaving their new homes. Is it better to ignore an injured and/or abandoned pigeon because it is a wild bird? There are many sides to the argument and, I believe, most members of Pigeon Talk advocate rescue.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

If I had Wings said:


> I don't personally think that a feral pigeon spends even one moment pondering it's mortality. And yes they are decendents of domesticated birds in this country but they did not evolve to be domesticated by humans. They were free first. And who are we to say that 20 years in captivity is better than a short life in the wild. Maybe someone who has spent 20 years in captivity can give us an answer as to what they prefered. We have done a lot of horrible things to the other animal species on this planet in order to make our human existence easier. It is wrong to make captive, wild born animals to satisfy our emotional needs.


bullcocky!... so no one should get a feral kitten and give it warmth and food then... these are feral birds and do well in the company of humans..they have for thousands of years... pigeons are not native wild species like song birds.... I don't think they contemplate living in a house or a loft either, so whats the point, except with humans tending to their needs, they live a longer, healthier life.... I think they would vote for that if they could understand it or "contemplate" it.....


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## If I had Wings (Jun 17, 2010)

*captivity is a human invention, of course we can justify it*

This discussion is not about captive breeds. It is about birds that are able to take care of themselves in the wild and were doing so. I have years of experience doing rescue. My first rescue bird I thought exactly that, he has it so good here he will not want to leave. I did a soft release from my window and low and behold he left. I then started to see him with the flock that he had been with before he fell ill. A flock that I feed regularly. He survived for five more years before disappearing. I would not have denied him those 5 years of sun and rain on his wings for 20 in a cage. I have since learned to remove my emotional attachment from the release equation. We also have to be careful not to project human wants and feelings onto them. We do not know. And therefore it is better to leave them be. Better to err toward letting them be free pigeons than toward making them house pets. I believe in freedom of choice. If a pigeon has open access to the outdoors and chooses to come and go then it is that individual's choice. If it is locked in a cage or indoors and doesn't have the option to leave then it is a prisoner and is being denied the right to choose.

Captivity is a human invention. It is no surprise that we can come up with all kinds of reasons to justify it.


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## maniac (Sep 27, 2009)

If I had Wings said:


> What absolute arrogance to assume that it is completely okay to remove a wild animal from its natural life because "we want it". Pigeons are not possessions. I believe that pigeons deserve the same protection as native species. It would not be acceptable to pick up a morning dove and make it your pet. It is equally unacceptable to do this to feral pigeons. Unfortunately there are no laws to prevent it.


Very noble but to what degree to you propose leaving wild animals alone to do whatever they do. Are you willing to allow a starving grizzly the freedom to walk into a town and kill and eat a child or are you only willing to allow this freedom to cute harmless creatures.


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

Abandonment is also a human invention. As is love, concern, empathy, medicine, and animal husbandry. You can't throw that argument unless you are willing to do without all the human inventions. 

There is no such thing as a wild pigeon in the US. There are only descendants of escaped or released _domesticated_ birds. They were bred to be captive of centuries of selected breeding. 

This is whole point is a two way justification. There is no winners. Provide advice to help provide proper care to the original poster and let's set the differences of opinion aside.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

If I had Wings said:


> This discussion is not about captive breeds. It is about birds that are able to take care of themselves in the wild and were doing so. I have years of experience doing rescue. My first rescue bird I thought exactly that, he has it so good here he will not want to leave. I did a soft release from my window and low and behold he left. I then started to see him with the flock that he had been with before he fell ill. A flock that I feed regularly. He survived for five more years before disappearing. I would not have denied him those 5 years of sun and rain on his wings for 20 in a cage. I have since learned to remove my emotional attachment from the release equation. We also have to be careful not to project human wants and feelings onto them. We do not know. And therefore it is better to leave them be. Better to err toward letting them be free pigeons than toward making them house pets. I believe in freedom of choice. If a pigeon has open access to the outdoors and chooses to come and go then it is that individual's choice. If it is locked in a cage or indoors and doesn't have the option to leave then it is a prisoner and is being denied the right to choose.
> 
> Captivity is a human invention. It is no surprise that we can come up with all kinds of reasons to justify it.


some may need to justify letting them go to live a feral life.... If pigeons do not contemplate, then how would living in a loft vs finding shelter in an overpass really matter.... to let them live a feral life or not is a choice for the human to make... and if you think feral is better then I guess I better take my birds down to the nearest overpass and let them free.... the ferals here in the usa are from domestic birds.... so perhaps we should ship every pigeon here back to their restricted natural resident range in western and southern Europe, North Africa, and into South Asia..... yikes....


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## tipllers rule (Aug 2, 2010)

If I had Wings said:


> I don't personally think that a feral pigeon spends even one moment pondering it's mortality. And yes they are decendents of domesticated birds in this country but they did not evolve to be domesticated by humans. They were free first. And who are we to say that 20 years in captivity is better than a short life in the wild. Maybe someone who has spent 20 years in captivity can give us an answer as to what they prefered. We have done a lot of horrible things to the other animal species on this planet in order to make our human existence easier. It is wrong to make captive, wild born animals to satisfy our emotional needs.


ok just chill and if your from peta i would not use this site people don't like your opinions yes if he lets them out there like homers chillo


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

If I had Wings said:


> I don't personally think that a feral pigeon spends even one moment pondering it's mortality. And yes they are decendents of domesticated birds in this country but they did not evolve to be domesticated by humans. They were free first. And who are we to say that 20 years in captivity is better than a short life in the wild. Maybe someone who has spent 20 years in captivity can give us an answer as to what they prefered. We have done a lot of horrible things to the other animal species on this planet in order to make our human existence easier. It is wrong to make captive, wild born animals to satisfy our emotional needs.


I agree....you said this very well !

To make some sort of claim that it's OK because Rock Doves are of "domestic stock" (an incredibly misleading use of semantics, BTW) is nothing but rationalizing. To claim that you are doing them a favor because they will live much longer in captivity is also really missing the point.

This thread has unfortunately begun to digress into silliness....

....if a Feral or wild animal is hurt or in need, then a sympathetic human should do what they can to help them; rescue them, nurse them back, or take them to a facility which will do so. However, if the Feral animal is getting on just fine and not causing harm....one is still welcome to befriend it and feed it, etc; but not to catch it because they want to make it their pal.

It's really pretty much that simple.....

I will state it again...Dan, if you have a soft-spot for pigeons...there are SO many in the world which are rescued but ultimately unreleasable....and _*they*_ are the ones which truly need a human friend.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

If I had Wings said:


> This discussion is not about captive breeds. It is about birds that are able to take care of themselves in the wild and were doing so. I have years of experience doing rescue. My first rescue bird I thought exactly that, he has it so good here he will not want to leave. I did a soft release from my window and low and behold he left. I then started to see him with the flock that he had been with before he fell ill. A flock that I feed regularly. He survived for five more years before disappearing. I would not have denied him those 5 years of sun and rain on his wings for 20 in a cage. I have since learned to remove my emotional attachment from the release equation. We also have to be careful not to project human wants and feelings onto them. We do not know. And therefore it is better to leave them be. Better to err toward letting them be free pigeons than toward making them house pets. I believe in freedom of choice. If a pigeon has open access to the outdoors and chooses to come and go then it is that individual's choice. If it is locked in a cage or indoors and doesn't have the option to leave then it is a prisoner and is being denied the right to choose.
> 
> Captivity is a human invention. It is no surprise that we can come up with all kinds of reasons to justify it.


Learn to remove your emotional attachment more readily. You have attributed human emotion, wants, desires, needs and feelings onto pigeons. You have assumed that THE BIRD agrees with you that five years of sun and rain on its wings is preferable to twenty years of captivity. How do you know that? Because it tries to get away when it is first brought in?

I have young children. Sometimes, what they want isn't what is best for them. I, as a parent, make the decision as to what is appropriate and what is not for my children. They think that stuffing themselves with cookies and ice cream, staying up until midnight, or skipping out on school is a great thing to do. Instead, I make them eat broccoli, put them to bed at 8:00pm and make sure they go to school. Do they hate me for that? Sometimes. Do I expect that they will love me for it in the future? Absolutely.

Although I would not capture feral pigeons to raise myself, I also do not condemn this person for what he did. He has the birds now. Give him the support he needs to care for them properly, and to ensure that they will have long and happy lives. Loading all of your beliefs about "wild" animals onto this person does not make the birds releasable.

Also, the word "prisoner" is a human word that has extreme negative connotations. It brings forward the idea of people chained to a rock wall in a cold, damp, dungeon. Fed only bread and water, and only enough to keep them alive so they can suffer. My "prisoner birds" have a pretty good life. All the food they can eat, a dry location to nest and to sleep. They never have to encounter a hawk. Shelter from storms and severe weather. The worst part for them must be this giant that comes into their loft every now and then and lifts them up to see their babies. My flying kit doesn't have it nearly as well. They are on limited rations. They have to work daily, or have their rations cut. They don't have a nice nest box to sleep in. They have to share much less space with more birds. Which life do you think the birds would choose...if they had a choice?


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## Pigeon80error (Sep 25, 2010)

Hi everybody- I'm sorry for doing this 
Now i keep 1 pigeon- I think it belongs to the owl family.
I saved it off from the streets- SAVED it.
(It is banned-Ring on its leg) So now its happy and flying around in our loft.

-Dan

P.S. Sorry for the inconvenience for keeping the 6 "feral" pigeons- Some died of old age and we set some free, 1 came back- (then died of sickness).


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

A member here had many ferals she took care of and shelterd, when they were well from whatever ailment or injury they got out on the streets, she released them 50 miles from her home... they all were back waiting on her when she arrived home... I think they did make a choice.... abandoning them back to a feral life or to keep them? either choice is acceptable.... the later just lets them live longer...


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## Pip Logan (Oct 6, 2009)

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I would do it if the opportunity presented itself. Just take care of Gods creatures and ur good bro.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Jaye said:


> Now, with that said...the moment after I posted the above, I went out front to check on my buddy Edgar, who I had released last week after nursing back to health, from emaciation. He was there on the window ledge...with his feet completely glued to his body (and the ledge) in roofing tar. After 5 minutes of stressing and chasing, he (whether wisely or luckily) landed on my porch and literally was unable to take off...feet stuck to each other and to the deck.
> 
> 40 minutes and one very messy, smelly kitchen later...he is drying off in the sun in my living room; with several less feathers on his chest and abdomen.....
> 
> So much for me on my high-horse. I still believe healthy Ferals should have the opportunity to live that life (humans welcome to befriend and aid them)...but it was just a quick reminder of the perils such a life brings with it; and I can see how someone might, in their eyes, want to 'help' a pigeon avoid those dangers....


Good Lord! Lucky that you found him out there.............................again!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If I had Wings said:


> I don't personally think that a feral pigeon spends even one moment pondering it's mortality. And yes they are decendents of domesticated birds in this country but they did not evolve to be domesticated by humans. They were free first. And who are we to say that 20 years in captivity is better than a short life in the wild. Maybe someone who has spent 20 years in captivity can give us an answer as to what they prefered. We have done a lot of horrible things to the other animal species on this planet in order to make our human existence easier. It is wrong to make captive, wild born animals to satisfy our emotional needs.


I don't think I could have said it better myself.

Besides, there are so many pigeons on this forum that have been up for adoption. Wouldn't it be better to give a home to a bird that really needs it, rather than to keep birds that would probably choose to be free?


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## maniac (Sep 27, 2009)

Some of these arguments and statements border on the silly. Several posters have assigned human characteristics to pigeons,talked about choices and evolutionary patterns. 
_" they did not evolve to be domesticated by humans."_ begs the question what are pigeons for, why do they exist, what is their purpose ?. 

I can't answer that in regard to us humans but I do know that we are at the top of the totem pole and every living creature, every plant, every mineral, every thing on this planet is subject to our control and use ... at least until we are dethroned.


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## NYBOY (Sep 15, 2009)

Dan Pigeons make great pets! Mickacoo needs homes for their birds. If you have space for 6 birds, you could save lives. You need to pass their Adoption Requirments. They ship birds all over the country.


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## Nictorious Ali (Jul 1, 2010)

I think were all in the agreement of letting them free and if they come back! Well, give em a house and some food. Why are we making this so complicated?


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## Wayne Johnson (Oct 1, 2010)

The arguements against keeping the Feral pigeons are similar to the extreme stance from PETA. The logical conclusion of the arguement is that all pigeons should be let free and to keep any that would live in the wild is, in the words of PETA, slavery. Pigeons are not wild animals they are domesticated creatures that did not exist, in their current form, before being cross bred by humans for thousands of years. If we are talking about Morning Doves then we are talking about wild birds. To talk of the modern pigeon is like insisting that all chihuahua's should be released to fend for themselfs. If pigeons are better off in the wild then shame on all of us. 

BTW for those of you that let your birds out all day long, I would hate to be your neighbors. That is a stereotype we have to overcome just to be able to have lofts in our own back yards due to people like you. 

Flame Away, but you know I'm right.

Wayne


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## garacari (Apr 26, 2010)

Wayne Johnson said:


> BTW for those of you that let your birds out all day long, I would hate to be your neighbors. That is a stereotype we have to overcome just to be able to have lofts in our own back yards due to people like you.
> 
> Flame Away, but you know I'm right.


I live in a very residential area and the houses are close together. My birds circle and land on my roof before trapping. I make sure they trap FAST. Even as a pigeon person, I'm not sure I'd like to look at my neighbor's roof and see a bunch of birds hanging out all day - just like I wouldn't like a bunch of dogs tied up in the front yard or groups of feral cats.


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## maniac (Sep 27, 2009)

Wayne Johnson said:


> BTW for those of you that let your birds out all day long, I would hate to be your neighbors. That is a stereotype we have to overcome just to be able to have lofts in our own back yards due to people like you.
> 
> Flame Away, but you know I'm right.
> 
> Wayne


I assume you are concerned about the birds crapping on your neighbors property. If you feed your birds in the late afternoon and lock them down for the night and, let them out at mid morning on the following day. You will find that 80 % of the crap has been excreted in the loft.


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## jeff houghton (Jul 17, 2010)

maniac said:


> I assume you are concerned about the birds crapping on your neighbors property. If you feed your birds in the late afternoon and lock them down for the night and, let them out at mid morning on the following day. You will find that 80 % of the crap has been excreted in the loft.


I dont personally leave my birds out after exercise but you are absolutely right the majority of the crap is on the perch if you havnt fed them before release.The problem is educating your neighbors about this and getting them to believe it.
Its just easier all round to get em in for me.


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## jeff houghton (Jul 17, 2010)

maniac said:


> I don't see anything wrong with it at all and I don't agree with John D.
> 
> Many people take in and care for feral cats and homeless dogs, rabbits etc .... so what's the difference if it's pigeons, they are not native to N.A.
> 
> If you enjoy them and enjoy taking care of them go ahead, you will probably double their life span by doing it.


I can see both sides of the argument here but i must say if they are getting a better quality of life then thats not a bad thing is it, and their lives will be considerably extended .This only applies for me though if you are planning to let them free fly and have suitable accomodation for them.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

I don't free fly my birds........they have roomy accommodations, a flight cage, plenty of fresh food and water, their friends and mates. When I go in and out of the loft, no one is even slightly interested in the door opening 
The other day, my neighbors wife came over while I was working in the yard to ask if I let my birds out to fly? She said her husband (elderly and wheel chair bound) told her that he saw them ALL out a couple weeks ago, *flying all over the place!* ............ Then I remembered, about 2 weeks ago there was a HUGE flock of birds (black birds or starlings, not sure which one), a couple HUNDRED of them flying from feeders to feeders in the neighborhood. That must of been what he saw and thought they were MY birds.
I don't know it that was going to be the "start of a complaint" or if they were just wondering.


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## maniac (Sep 27, 2009)

I have 1 neighbor who at times can be a bit of a dick and I know if a complaint is made it will have come though him. He has a huge tree that overhangs his house and several weeks ago when the blackbirds/starlings were gathering to migrate he must have had 300 of them in that tree. The camera came out pretty quick just in case I needed evidence or ammunition


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## jeff houghton (Jul 17, 2010)

maniac said:


> I have 1 neighbor who at times can be a bit of a dick and I know if a complaint is made it will have come though him. He has a huge tree that overhangs his house and several weeks ago when the blackbirds/starlings were gathering to migrate he must have had 300 of them in that tree. The camera came out pretty quick just in case I needed evidence or ammunition


Its always the same, there are hundreds of seagulls around by me where the neighbors feed them scraps.They crap all over the place but when it comes to complaints its obvious its the bloke with the pigeons.!
I very rarely let my birds land on next doors roof but my answer to them is when complaints arise is its like me telling you to not let your cat cross my garden.Soon shuts them up.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

maniac said:


> I have 1 neighbor who at times can be a bit of a dick and I know if a complaint is made it will have come though him. He has a huge tree that overhangs his house and several weeks ago when the blackbirds/starlings were gathering to migrate he must have had 300 of them in that tree. The camera came out pretty quick just in case I needed evidence or ammunition


I figured it was a migration thing with these birds. Otherwise, we never see them around.
There were hundreds of them flying from feeder to feeder and tree to tree.
there was like 3 different 'groups" of them for a couple days.
I can't believe he thought they were my pigeons though  They don't even look like pigeons


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## Budd (Jul 20, 2010)

Leave able bodied pigeons alone. Just feed them. Stick to rescuing the injured pigeons. When you kidnap able bodied pigeons off the streets you have no idea if the pigeon has a wife\husband or baby's to feed.


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## ptras (Jun 29, 2010)

Msfreebird said:


> I figured it was a migration thing with these birds. Otherwise, we never see them around.
> There were hundreds of them flying from feeder to feeder and tree to tree.
> there was like 3 different 'groups" of them for a couple days.
> I can't believe he thought they were my pigeons though  They don't even look like pigeons


Just hundreds? I usually see flocks of one to ten thousand of those birds at this time of year. We must be in their migration route, because every fall we see them for two to three weeks and not again until the spring. These birds are so plentiful that they have been known to break branches off of trees because so many roost together. Although autumn is the best time to put down grass seed, you have to make sure they've gone before you do.

They're a pain, but it sure is an awesome sight to see a flock of ten thousand fly over - darkening the sky.


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## jeff houghton (Jul 17, 2010)

Budd said:


> Leave able bodied pigeons alone. Just feed them. Stick to rescuing the injured pigeons. When you kidnap able bodied pigeons off the streets you have no idea if the pigeon has a wife\husband and babies to feed.


That is a factor but also where as i have no problem in somebody providing food and shelter for ferals i think its wrong to keep them prisoners.They should be allowed to come and go and if they decide to stay which they probably would then fair play.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

I'm also unsure on this issue. I only associate with wild pigeons, and in our local flock there is much suffering after each breeding season, when the contagious diseases go through them...cocci, canker, pox, and other stuff that causes suffering and death. I watch it each year with a broken heart.

I think anyone who takes in a feral Pigeon and treats it right is going to meet 80% of its needs better that the environment can provide, it will be safer and probably live a lot longer. 

What I don't know, is will the bird suffer because it could once fly, associate with flocks, and feel free? What does that mean t o bird who had experienced it?

I can't answer that, so I am on the fence, and always trying to observe and learn more.


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## The_Dirteeone (Apr 18, 2010)

If it is so terrible to capture and house ferels,I think we all should stop breeding and go out and medicate and feed all wild pigeons.Good god people,keeping a few ferels prob kept half of them from dying a early death.For anyone that houses any kind of animal that has any trace of being wild in thier ancestry,and then to tell someone else it is cruel to keep ferel pigeons is about as hypocritical as you can get.I guess the only good people on the planet are rehabers.Remember this pigeon 80,the admin here and others have great advice,and knowledge,but they also have opinions.It is up to you to decide if it is (ok) or not.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

well if you take ferals you were caring for and sheltering out 50 miles and they come back then I think they just made the descison for the human...lol... and that does happen, so that tells me they like the place they are being cared for.. they are not stupid...lol...


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Well most adult ferals are not happy in captivity. They have lived free, and that is what they know. They don't usually become that tame just because you decide to keep them. If they are young enough, and haven't flown freely, there would be more chance of them being happy being kept. Letting them free fly and make their own decision is different. Or if they are unreleasable, and not safe to let them go back to the wild. Why take wild birds that want to be wild, when there are so many pigeons that need a home, and can't be turned loose, who need homes? Just doesn't make sense.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Jay3 said:


> Well most adult ferals are not happy in captivity. They have lived free, and that is what they know. They don't usually become that tame just because you decide to keep them. If they are young enough, and haven't flown freely, there would be more chance of them being happy being kept. Letting them free fly and make their own decision is different. Or if they are unreleasable, and not safe to let them go back to the wild. Why take wild birds that want to be wild, when there are so many pigeons that need a home, and can't be turned loose, who need homes? Just doesn't make sense.


Im talking about pigeons that are free to come and go as they please, one is just providing a shelter and feed and water.. I think that would be a good thing, pigeons hang in cities where "food" and people are and places to nest, so the only diff with my pigeons is they are locked up at night and during inclimate weather.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

spirit wings said:


> Im talking about pigeons that are free to come and go as they please, one is just providing a shelter and feed and water.. I think that would be a good thing, pigeons hang in cities where "food" and people are and places to nest, so the only diff with my pigeons is they are locked up at night and during inclimate weather.


I think that would be a great idea. As long as they had the right to fly, life would be great for them to be kept in a loft. They would be lots safer and warmer, that's for sure. If they didn't want to be there, they would leave. How could they have it any better than that? Good food, fresh water, and safety, (that is assuming that they were kept in a safe, predator free place). That does make a difference.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Jay3 said:


> I think that would be a great idea. As long as they had the right to fly, life would be great for them to be kept in a loft. They would be lots safer and warmer, that's for sure. If they didn't want to be there, they would leave. How could they have it any better than that? Good food, fresh water, and safety, (that is assuming that they were kept in a safe, predator free place). That does make a difference.


I don't think there is a predator free place for pigeons...esp ferals, BOP's are everywhere even in the cities now as that is where alot the ferals are.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

spirit wings said:


> I don't think there is a predator free place for pigeons...esp ferals, BOP's are everywhere even in the cities now as that is where alot the ferals are.


I'm talking about the loft. If it isn't safe, they can be attacked at night. That shouldn't be hard to do.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Jay3 said:


> I'm talking about the loft. If it isn't safe, they can be attacked at night. That shouldn't be hard to do.


oh..doh... yeah, thought that was a given...lol... another good reason to house some ferals...


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

spirit wings said:


> oh..doh... yeah, *thought that was a given...lol... *another good reason to house some ferals...



Not always around here.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Jay3 said:


> Not always around here.


some learn the hard way for sure.....


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## Birds Forever (Nov 3, 2010)

*Not that bad....*

I don't think it's bad to catch pigeons......I had about 10 feral pigeons for awhile that I had captured. They became very tame and 3 pairs bred and raise babies. As long as they seem happy,I see no reason not to keep them. Now,if they are thrashing about and totally terrifed.it would be wise to let them go.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Birds Forever said:


> I don't think it's bad to catch pigeons......I had about 10 feral pigeons for awhile that I had captured. They became very tame and 3 pairs bred and raise babies. As long as they seem happy,I see no reason not to keep them. Now,if they are thrashing about and totally terrifed.it would be wise to let them go.


Adult ferals are not normally very happy in captivity. They normally fear people, and being confined.


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## GEMcC5150 (Oct 24, 2010)

and Jay they told you this when? If thay fly and return there happy. A lot of bird psych here.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If they are let out to fly, then that is different. I did say _*confined. *_That would mean that they are not let out to fly.


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## Guest (Nov 4, 2010)

I have had many feral pigeons have no problem trapping into my loft for a bite to eat thru the years and they never seemed to have a p[roblem with being locked in but they did always part later on down the road as I never dint let them back out with my flock when it was time to fly lol now I rarely let any bird stay in my loft for the night as there is just to many ailments for my birds to cathc at any given time that I dont want to take the chance of getting


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

LokotaLoft said:


> I have had many feral pigeons have no problem trapping into my loft for a bite to eat thru the years and they never seemed to have a p[roblem with being locked in but they did always part later on down the road as I never dint let them back out with my flock when it was time to fly lol now I rarely let any bird stay in my loft for the night as there is just to many ailments for my birds to cathc at any given time that I dont want to take the chance of getting


Yes. It really isn't worth it. Can't be too careful.


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