# young pigeon with bad digestion



## kalel (Oct 14, 2008)

Hello
I was given a young pigeon on weds night. The bird has very slow digestion and is also skinny as the breastbone can be felt. I originally thought the bird had pmv as it often moves its head around erratically but I think it is blind. It may have some neurological problems but the pressing concern is the slow digestion.
She is doing poos that are green and white. I will put some pics up when I can. I am hand feeding here pigeon mix and grit. Is there anything that could be causing the digestion problems?
I can't take her to the vets till tuesday if I have enough money.


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*

Are you:

1. Feeding only when bird is warm?
2. Feeding food that is warm?
3. Feeding only when crop is completely empty?

Do not add grit to food, pigeons usually pick that up when needed.

The crop may be blocked by canker or foreign object (any swelling?), or there is crop issue like sour crop. If crop is blocked it might be best to give bird formula and add a drop of apple cider vinegar or drop of applesauce in it to get crop moving. 

If there is canker it needs immediate treatment. 

Have you seen this link? http://www.pigeonrescue.co.uk/caringforababypigeon.htm There is a wealth of information and resources. *


----------



## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Is possibly to be the beginning of a crop or / and gissard blockage, caused by grit mixed with food. I have made the same mistake some times ago and the pigeon died. 

Can you post a photo with the pigeon's droppings?


No matter the cause of the slow digestion, you have to act as the situation will not solve by itself, both by warming the bird's environment and her food and by checking for other causes as well.

For the possibility of gissard blockage, here are my ideas, based on the experience of having recently 5 cases about which I created a thread (about three of them):

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f6/strange-neck-position-77838.html

Four died, a fifth (discovered after posting the last message on thread) is now in un unclear situation, rather positive. For this fifth pigeon I followed the reccomendations on this webpage:
http://dlhunicorn.conforums.com/index.cgi?board=emergencies&action=display&num=1176631148

and it started to work. You have to give around 40 drops of liquid paraffin / day, in small amounts (few drops every hours or few hours). But if crop (from any cause, in this case as result of gissard blockage) starts to works slowly or stops, surely will be invaded by candida, a yeast / fungus that multiplies very fast, in few hours it doubles its volume. For crop candida, the only efficient method I noticed is to give water strongly soured (at the limit of causing stress to the bird) with acv (apple cider vinegar). Res-supply the soured water as fast as the crop empties, as if the crop stays empty, also will be invaded by candida.


----------



## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

If you want some rescuer may be from your area can help you in saving this rescue and if you are on Facebook, I suggest you to join the Pigeon Rescue group which is a network of rescuers and some rescue centres in the UK:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/PigeonProtection/


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

How old is the bird? Picture?


----------



## kalel (Oct 14, 2008)

Thanks for the replies. I am a volunteer of that group already. They don't know what is wrong with her and as she is blind needs someone to be with her all the time, so they gave her to me. I usually look after the small songbirds so not sure what to do here.
She is being kept under a chick brooder to keep her warm.
I have some medicines which are nystan 30ml and enrofloxan 10%.
Should I stop feeding seeds and switch to kaytee?


----------



## kalel (Oct 14, 2008)

hope pics show.


----------



## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

Droppings don't look very bad, bu the pigeon looks thin and dehydrated. 

There is something that causes the slow assimilation of food which must be identified and solved. Possibnle to have worms or something else not interfering with the metabolism, like mites.


----------



## kalel (Oct 14, 2008)

Hi yes there is but don't know. I gave her some acv which made her vomit a lot of seeds some of which I think came from before I got her. I have given her kaytee and hopefully it should be easierfor her to digest.


----------



## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

He can be fed on defrosted frozen peas and corns thawed under hot water to get them to normal temperature around 30-35 in number thrice a day but it is necessary to let the crop be empty between feedings. 
Do not feed him grit this way as advised. 

You should add ACV in water to help him with slow crop.
To make him drink, dip his beak in water (not over the nostrils) and let him sip. 
If you have to feed Kaytee, add ACV or apple sauce in the formula.


----------



## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

kalel said:


> Hi yes there is but don't know. I gave her some acv which made her vomit a lot of seeds some of which I think came from before I got her. I have given her kaytee and hopefully it should be easierfor her to digest.


Saw this post after my reply. Pls keep us posted on how he goes on Kaytee.


----------



## AndreiS (Jul 28, 2013)

kalel said:


> Hi yes there is but don't know. I gave her some acv which made her vomit a lot of seeds some of which I think came from before I got her. I have given her kaytee and hopefully it should be easierfor her to digest.


Did you look at the vomit, did you see some small white cloths? Was it smelling? Maybe you put too much vinegar if she vomited. Try 1 part vinegar, 10 parts water




I think the best you can do is to act for blocked gissard and crop. Proceed like this:

- Give kaytee 3 or four times a day, an amount not very much but also not very small. Between lunches, give one or two times in each interval water with vinegar. Water will flush the food, thus contributing to the stopping of candida. Prevent the bird of drinking other water, as will dilute the acv concentration.

- Kaytee is exactly what candida needs to grow the fastest. In a functioning crop, as the food doesn't stay much, candida has less possibility to grow (though there will appear too, especially after giving antibiotics) but in a slow crop, will grow explosively. 

- After giving water or food, massage very gently the lower part of the crop, pushing very little, as if you push stronger, water or food may come up in mouth and suffocate the bird.

- If she starts to be weak and dizzy following starvation, secure an area on the floor where she cannot fall or accidentally push her crop some other way. Avoid pushing or even touching the crop yourself.

- If the crop gets blocked and filled with water / food, extract most of the water and food with the same syringe you use to feed. Leave just a small amount of soured liquid in crop (like 5- 7 ml) but replenish it with soured water more often. If the crop stays empty, will also ber filled by candida. Stop giving food until the crop starts to function. Massage the lowest part of the crop, next to the chestbone very gently and slowly after each water administration.

- Give freqeuently 3-4 drops of paraffin oil, like each time you give water + acv and Kaytee + acv. Put it on the tip of the inside beak. Give them one by one, slowly, taking care for fluid to go below, not above the tongue, to avoid it entering the trachea which has the vent on upper side of the tongue.

- Buy probiotics (from human drugstore or vet drugstore, if they doesn't contain lactose) and put a little in food and water, if Kaytee doesn't already contain probiotics.

- Buy complexes with B vitamins and A vitamins. Give 1 drop of B vitamins daily and one drop of A vitamin daily for 3 - 5 days. The overdosed A vitamin is toxic so don't give more than 3-5 days.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

kalel said:


> Hi yes there is but don't know. I gave her some acv which made her vomit a lot of seeds some of which I think came from before I got her. I have given her kaytee and hopefully it should be easierfor her to digest.


How much ACV did you give to make her vomit? Should be only a few drops added to the formula. That shouldn't bother her. If you give too much, then it will of course, make her sick.


----------



## kalel (Oct 14, 2008)

Just an update. Took her to the vets who gave me some marbocyl and metoclopramide. I've totally stopped feeding seeds and just giving kaytee mixed with prime probiotic and vitamin supplement. She can no longer use one of her legs properly but the vet said it was probably kidney damage. 
Digestion is still slow though. Not sure what else to do.


----------



## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Thank you for taking her to the vet. Hope she improves soon.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Was it an avian vet? Can you tell us why he/she felt it was kidney damage?
I would mix warmed baby apple sauce in with the kaytee. It can help the crop to empty better.


----------



## kalel (Oct 14, 2008)

Hi yes it was an avian vet but I didnt manage to see the one with more experience. If the pigeon makes it till next week I'll take her again and try to see the other guy.


----------



## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Hi Kalel, 
Did you call on London wild life and had a word with them for this bird?


----------



## kalel (Oct 14, 2008)

I volunteer for them. They gave me the bird and have no clue what is wrong with her.


----------



## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

Thanks to tell. I thought may be you could get some help there. 
Well, as advised try warm apple sauce to the formula and update us how it goes. Hope it will help to empty the crop. 
Doesn't seem anything like kidney damage because they don't pass urates if kidney is affected (not sure though because the vet said that) . From her droppings pic earlier she is passing urates. 
How is her leg. Can you pls post a pic of her leg also?


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

What tests did he do to come to that conclusion? This doesn't make sense.


----------



## kalel (Oct 14, 2008)

Hi he didn't do any tests. Just an observation he made. Something about the anatomy either a nerve or connection between the kidney and legs. He said it was common that kidney problems caused leg lameness sometimes. Possibly in previous pigeons he had seen. I didn't really question him about it.
The pigeon is doing same as but her crop was completely empty in the morning. Just got to get some weight on her but she is sleeping right now under the chick brooder.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

An avian vet would have done tests. At least check her droppings and do throat swab, check the crop contents for bacteria or whatever. You don't just look at a bird and figure out what is wrong. 
What are you feeding now and how much? She needs a calcium and vitamin D3 supplement as well. Add a few drops of ACV to her water. Not so much that she won't drink it though. 1 Tablespoon to a gallon. If feeding formula then I would also add baby apple sauce.


----------



## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Problem here is that most vets are not geared up for onsite tests beyond checking samples for parasites. They may detect the presence of bacteria, but not sufficiently to differentiate. Avian & exotics vets are usually individuals within a partnership which consists of 'general' vets and avian vets. There are a few purely avian vet practises, but difficult to locate and horribly expensive. Most vets have to use laboratories for sample analysis - which is why we more often send poop samples and swabs to a specialised poultry/pigeon testing lab from which we can also obtain any meds recommended for treatment.


----------



## kalel (Oct 14, 2008)

Just an update. Sadly she passed away in the morning. Thanks for everyone's help.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I'm so sorry you lost her. Thanks for trying for her.


----------



## kalel (Oct 14, 2008)

thankyou for your kind words.


----------



## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Kalel, very sorry to hear she didn't make it. Thank you very much for trying to help her and for giving her a chance.


----------



## kiddy (Feb 5, 2015)

I am so sorry to hear about your loss. You did great to save her.


----------



## Joe Black (Nov 21, 2012)

I am sorry she did not make it.. I have a pigeon with the same symptoms and I am hoping I can save him... 
Sad..


----------

