# What Color Is This?



## SuburbFlyer (Jul 25, 2016)

My pigeons always bring back strays birds usually blue bars, checkers. But a year ago they bought back this cock bird thats has mosaic coloration that ive only seen in domestic pigeons. He came as a squeaker but now has given me 2 sets of young birds and one of them is a grizzle yet still has the mosaic look to it while the other sibling is a normal checkered like mom. Is this color sex-linked making the grizzle a hen. 

Here the cock bird


His babys



But then today they brought back a simlar colored bird. Both the cock and this new bird have same type of mosaic look while the cock has more of the mossic look while this bird has more of the checkered look.The picture doesnt show to good but they have a brownish color. hoping the new bird is a hen to breed the cock. what color will come out of this breeding?

The new bird


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Lovely bird!


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## Chuck K (Jan 12, 2013)

They are all blues. The cock bird is carrying one gene for grizzle. The new bird is carrying one gene for grizzle. The white youngster would suggest that the hen that produced it is also carrying one gene for grizzle. You did not post a picture of the hen, but when you get the almost all white youngsters from grizzle they are carrying two genes (homozygous) for the grizzle factor. It would have to have gotten one gene from each parent. The other youngster appears to be plain blue which would indicate it didn't get any genes for grizzle, and therefore both parents are only carrying one grizzle gene.


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## SuburbFlyer (Jul 25, 2016)

cwebster said:


> Lovely bird!


thanks, pretty bird indeed good thing he didnt fly away on me when I first let him out


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## SuburbFlyer (Jul 25, 2016)

Chuck K said:


> They are all blues. The cock bird is carrying one gene for grizzle. The new bird is carrying one gene for grizzle. The white youngster would suggest that the hen that produced it is also carrying at least one gene for grizzle. You did not post a picture of the hen, but when you get the almost all white youngsters from grizzle they are carrying two genes (homozygous) for the grizzle factor. It would have to have gotten one gene from each parent. The other youngster appears to be plain blue which would indicate it didn't get any genes for grizzle, and therefore both parents are only carrying one grizzle gene.


 Thank you, exactly the answer looking for. The mom just a normal blue check. i have no idea of the pedigree for her as both birds were from feral populations. Say i breed this back to the new bird carrying the grizzle and blue gene. would i get a mix of grizzle, and blues?I also am thinking of breeding it to a all white bird. would i get some pure whites or no? oh and the white is recessive white.


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## Chuck K (Jan 12, 2013)

SuburbFlyer said:


> Thank you, exactly the answer looking for. The mom just a normal blue check. i have no idea of the pedigree for her as both birds were from feral populations. Say i breed this back to the new bird carrying the grizzle and blue gene. would i get a mix of grizzle, and blues?I also am thinking of breeding it to a all white bird. would i get some pure whites or no? oh and the white is recessive white.


Pairing the cock bird will get you grizzles and plain blues. 

One thing to keep in mind. The grizzle birds are still blue based. Grizzle is a modifier gene that acts on the base color.

Your grizzle cock bird paired to the new bird will give you youngsters that look like the young white squab, and plain blues, and young that look like the cock bird and new hen. The theoretical percentages are 25% white grizzle (GG), 50 blue grizzle (G+), and 25% non-grizzle blues (++). You hit to the two ends of the spectrum with the last pair. If you have one I would like to a see picture of the hen that produced that pair. She should be showing some grizzle on her. A lot of times it can be only one or two white flecks.

If you are interested in pigeon genetics download a free PDF copy of Joe Quinn's The Pigeon Breeders Notebook at this link. It is one of the best resources for a beginner. It has a section on grizzle. http://www.angelfire.com/ga4/rhuntley/quinn.pdf


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## SuburbFlyer (Jul 25, 2016)

Chuck K said:


> Pairing the cock bird will get you grizzles and plain blues.
> 
> One thing to keep in mind. The grizzle birds are still blue based. Grizzle is a modifier gene that acts on the base color.
> 
> ...


so you want a pic of the hen that was breed with the cock to produce the youngsters? so would i get the same result if i bred the baby grizzle to new bird and the all white bird.


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## Chuck K (Jan 12, 2013)

SuburbFlyer said:


> so you want a pic of the hen that was breed with the cock to produce the youngsters? so would i get the same result if i bred the baby grizzle to new bird and the all white bird.


Yes, I believe you will get the same basic results. There may be some variance but it will be due to modifiers other than grizzle. I would like to see a pick of the mother of the squabs just to verify that she also carries the grizzle gene. The white squab looks like it carries two genes for grizzle, and a picture of the hen might confirm that thought. Some grizzles show the gene almost hidden. Some will just have a lighten colored shield, and some will have only a few white feathers in the neck or on the head.


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## SuburbFlyer (Jul 25, 2016)

the hen doesn't show any sign of grizzle, not even a fleck of white


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## Chuck K (Jan 12, 2013)

If you spread her wing does the inner webbing show white? I can see just a little bit of white below the bar in the flights in your picture. The reason I ask is that something genetic caused the all white looking squab. There are more than one type of grizzle. The dominant grizzle that I will call normal grizzle for lack of knowing the proper term is the one that causes the flecking when one gene is present, and the near all white when two genes are present.

One of the other grizzle genes is called undergrizzle. It is characterized by white in the inner webbing of the flights and tail. Undergrizzle would extend from the base of the feather up to about the mid-point. The combination of normal grizzle and undergrizzle may have contributed to the look of the white squab. I am not very familiar with undergrizzle, and I am not sure of the effect of the two combined, but it is the only explanation I could think of. The link is to a picture of what undergrizzle looks like. This example has a lot of white showing but they are not always that white. With the wings and tail closed it is barely visible or not visible at all. It is a modifier often see in recessive red birds.

http://www.angelfire.com/ga/huntleyloft/images/Undergrizzlewing.jpg









The original cock and hen will still throw the offspring I posted in my earlier post. The new hen is also normal grizzle.


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