# Found an injured pigeon



## doctor_beat (Sep 12, 2007)

Hi everyone, I hope you can help me help a pigeon!

I found an injured pigeon today and brought it home. I thought at irst it was a broken leg, but upon closer inspection, it's actually thread looped tightly around his foot.
The thread had become tangled so tight that he has lost a claw, I don't know the correct name for it, but it's the back claw.
He has another claw that has been damaged by the thread, it has got a very deep groove where the thread has cut into it. The claw doesn't look 'dead' and I'm hoping that it received sufficient circulation to keep it alive, but unfortunately it has become twisted backwards, presumably due to damage to the tendons and muscles.

I have managed to remove all the thread and there doesn't seem to be any signs of infection. The bird is clearly experiencing some pain, as it is reluctant to put weight on it. It is coping by either using one of it's wings to partly take the weight when sitting or stands on one leg.
I don't think the pain is debilitating or that the little guy is suffering unduly, as it only seems to bother him when he uses his bad foot.

I found him just outside my workplace, and a security guard told me that the pigeon had been there since he started work at 4am, which means it was at least 14 hours. He was sitting in his own faeces, which I took to be a bad sign.
Someon had already called the RSPCA but they wouldn't do anything because pigeons are 'vermin'

I have him in a cardboard box (plenty of airholes) I have fed him on the only appropriate things I could find at short notice, which turned out to be canned peas, breakfast cereal and a cereal/ nut bar. I have supplied a shallow container of fresh water too.
Unfortunately, I haven't seen him eat or drink as he's in a box, but it's quite possible that he has.

He is in very good condition apart from his foot, plumage is very healthy looking, and he is bright and alert.

I need a bit of guidance as I'm not familiar with bird husbandry, so I'll give a list of questions:

1. What do I feed him? Is what I have provided ok as a temporary measure?

2. How long should I keep him? Shall I wait until he can walk better, or is it best to keep him for as short a time as possible?

3. What is the best way to release him when the time comes? Would it be ok to put him in a box on my balcony (second floor) and let him find his own way?

4. Anything else I should be aware of?

Thanks for reading, and for any replies. This pigeon is a fine specimen and doesn't deserve to die from something as trivial as a bit of thread.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, the fact that he was standing around for a long time is probably more a sign of other problems unseen at the moment. First question would be where basically are you in case we've got somebody nearby?

Pidgey


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## doctor_beat (Sep 12, 2007)

Sorry, I forgot to mention that this pigeon is a full grown adult.
He seems to be reasonably young and although injured seems otherwise perfectly healthy.

I don't know what to specifically look for in birds, but his eyes are bright and clear with no discharge, his feathers are in good shape and clean and he seems plump and well nourished. His uninjured foot looks fine, his beak is smooth and shiny and he is alert and paying attention to his surroundings.
He has pooped and to my eye looks like normal healthy bird poop.


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Welcome to Pigeon-Talk, Dr. Beat  
Thank you for taking in this hurt little one. I'm guessing you're in the UK? We have several members there, but none are on - line right now. 

Pigeons can easily eat a wild bird seed mix, love sunflower and safflower seeds, and enjoy peas and corn -- all _au naturel _ no seasonings. Please provide water in a nice deep dish (1-1/2 to 2 inches deep). 

I can't help much beyond that, but there are lots of knowledgeable folks who will see your post and give you some better information.

Oh, yes, people here love "poop"  so describe at length, wax lyrical, whatever. It's a real clue as to what the bird's been through and what its health is. 
We also love pictures, so post 'em if you have 'em  
Welcome.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

You should read this one next:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=9457

Frankly, they're very good at hiding illnesses and can still be flying within minutes to a few hours of dying so there's reason to worry. Not for yourself, mind you, but for the bird.

Pidgey


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## doctor_beat (Sep 12, 2007)

Pidgey said:


> Well, the fact that he was standing around for a long time is probably more a sign of other problems unseen at the moment. First question would be where basically are you in case we've got somebody nearby?
> 
> Pidgey


Wow! Thanks for your swift reply.
Well I think that his immobility is due to pain from the foot. The girl who called the RSPCA said that when they disturbed the pigeon, it flew off but then returned to the same spot. 
When I approached him to collect him, he limped away and was pecking the ground like they normally do when searching for food.

I am in Birmingham in the UK


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Already contacting folks in the UK. It's kinda' late there, though, huh? If you can get some supplemental heat on the bird, it might help--just don't burn the house down doing it.

Given your name on here, you're not a doctor or have any medications, do you?

Pidgey


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## doctor_beat (Sep 12, 2007)

Ok, I'll pick up some bird seed in the morning then.
His water is about 1 1/2 inches deep, as I thought I'd make it deep enough for him to get his entire beak into if he wanted.

I am aware of the diagnostic nature of poop because I keep snakes. Snake poop and bird poop are very similar  
His poop was normal bird stuff, white urates and black stools. The stools seem normal for a bird, not too runny, not dry or hard.


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## doctor_beat (Sep 12, 2007)

Pidgey said:


> You should read this one next:
> 
> http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=9457
> 
> ...


Thanks for that link, it's very useful.
His body temperature is good, because when I was handling him to remove the thread he felt nice and warm to the touch (hotter than my hands by quite a lot)
As I have snakes, I have a perfect heat source- a heat mat.
I'll pop it under the box to make sure.

He's not displaying symptoms of dehydration, and he has plenty of water. 
I live in the city centre so I see loads of pigeons, and he's behaving normally apart from not wanting to put his foot down, so hopefully he's ok.

He's in a cardboard box small enough to make him feel secure but large enough for him to be comfortable, and I have put it in a place with low foot trafic.

I'm not a real doctor by the way, it's just a nickname cos my surname is 'Beat'.......


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

It's not uncommon to see some feet that have had really bad "string injuries" where the bird is still flying plenty and fighting like a pig at the trough with the other birds when feeding is in progress. The behavior that you're describing more often than not signals that the bird has some deeper issue. Sometimes they can get a systemic infection from a foot injury and those can be fatal if it's the right germ. You don't see it that often but it's something to try and get taken care of swiftly when you see one starting to go downhill. Normally in a case like this, we'd try to get some Clavamox in the bird as a preventative. Clavamox is a mixture of Amoxicillin and Clavulanic Acid. We'd usually have suspected a tangle with a predator in which the bird got a small wound that had some Pasteurella in it but there are other things that can have similar symptoms. 

Pidgey


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## Guest (Sep 12, 2007)

What you did was an act of kindness that will remain with you for the rest of your life. Thank you for that.

1. What do I feed him? Is what I have provided ok as a temporary measure?

*Try and buy a bag of wild bird seed. These birds are seed eaters and for the length of time you have him, that will be sufficient.
I would bring him inside. There is nothing you can catch and if there is no cat at home, it's a lot safer. Also, he needs light to be able to see the food and water so keeping him in a dark box is not the best thing to do. I don't know how shallow the water container is but it can be a couple of inches deep without having to worry about that.
*

2. How long should I keep him? Shall I wait until he can walk better, or is it best to keep him for as short a time as possible?

*It all depends on how he heals. The pain level usually goes down within 7 days but there are exceptions. For instance, if a toe is in the process of dying, it will pain him as long as there are live nerves. Sometimes, it saves the bird a lot of pain and possible infection to take him over to a vet in order to have the offending toe(s) amputated properly. If the toe is dying, amputation substantially cuts the healing time down. Don't try to do it yourself or you're liable to wind up with bleeding that will be very difficult to stop.

One of the worst after affects of a string injury is that a toe or toes can curl from the damage to ligaments and tendons. It will remain that way unless the toes are splinted straight. If you have that situation, try to use a few layers of tape to keep them straight. If the rear toe is involved, you can tape the toe to the leg to straighten it out. If it doesn't work, amputation at the mid joint is needed because the pain of walking on it's toes would be equivalent of you're walking on cement on your knuckles. Also, the toe nail would eventually grow into the bottom of the foot causing infection and death so as you can see, this is not an easy problem to resolve. 

It's difficult to tell you if there is infection or not. Sometimes, the infection isn't readily seen. Birds tend to encapsulate infection inside so we don't see it all the time. At least wash out the wounds with tepid water and Ivory soap (only). Uninfected injuries are best left to heal dry.

If he is eating, you will see droppings. If he's been starving, droppings will be liquid in the beginning and then will turn more solid within a few days. If he's not eating, there is something else the matter with him.*



3. What is the best way to release him when the time comes? Would it be ok to put him in a box on my balcony (second floor) and let him find his own way?

*If you release him where you found him, he'll take it the rest of the way.*

4. Anything else I should be aware of?

*He could have any number of low level illnesses but those are their illnesses, not anything you would have to worry about for yourself. Watch those droppings. If they remain green and liquid after 7 days, he's got a problem.*


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

You see, usually if they're going to stand around nursing a painful foot with nothing else wrong with them, it's not going to be in a place where a human or a predator could get to them. And it's virtually never going to be the same place for 14 hours straight except at night in the dark. So, we're worried. Hopefully, one of the UK folks will get with you although it's midnight there.

Pidgey


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## doctor_beat (Sep 12, 2007)

Thanks so much for your advice.
You're right, the claw is curled up from the damage. It's not curled up underneath his foot, but out to the side so if it does survive it shouldn't trouble him.
I'm quite hopeful about the claw because it seems that the thread was cutting into the widest part where the toe joins the foot so it looks like it may have had received a sufficient blood supply to keep it alive.

There are no signs of tissue necrosis, discolouration or sloughing.

The thing that you mentioned about stools is interesting. The stool is liquid (urates) and solid (faeces) but i guess the solid parts aren't dry pellets. How liquid does the stool have to be to indicate starvation? The urates are pure white and the faeces are very dark brown, almost black, no green.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Try to relate the sizes of the urates and the solids to something for reference. Coins would work for our UK members but I'm not sure what sizes your coins are. Or you could imagine measuring with a syringe, like "one cc" or something like that. You can smear the solids to be sure of the color. Sometimes, something that looks very dark is really a dark green under the right light.

Pidgey


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## doctor_beat (Sep 12, 2007)

Pidgey said:


> You see, usually if they're going to stand around nursing a painful foot with nothing else wrong with them, it's not going to be in a place where a human or a predator could get to them. And it's virtually never going to be the same place for 14 hours straight except at night in the dark. So, we're worried. Hopefully, one of the UK folks will get with you although it's midnight there.
> 
> Pidgey


Yes, that does make sense. I hope the little guy's ok  
Well even if he does die, at least I can console myself that I tried. If I hadn't taken him home, I'm positive he'd be dead by now.

Hopefully someone from my area will respond and help him out.
Thanks for your help guys, I'm off to bed...


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

They're very tough and they don't usually die that fast but it certainly can happen. Okay, we'll, I'm off to dinner. Hopefully, you'll get contacted in the morning, your time. Wishin' you and your charge good luck!

Pidgey


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## doctor_beat (Sep 12, 2007)

Pidgey said:


> Try to relate the sizes of the urates and the solids to something for reference. Coins would work for our UK members but I'm not sure what sizes your coins are. Or you could imagine measuring with a syringe, like "one cc" or something like that. You can smear the solids to be sure of the color. Sometimes, something that looks very dark is really a dark green under the right light.
> 
> Pidgey


Ok, well he was sitting in some of his poop when I found him and it's hard to say how much there was because it had become smeared. It looked like a 'normal' pigeon poo in every way, size colour etc (I see a LOT of pigeon poo in the city centre...)
The poop that he did when I got him home is only small, about 3/4" in diameter.
To give you an idea of urate/ faeces ratio, it has the proportions of a fried egg  

I can see that some of the faeces has now bled into the white liquid urates (it's been sitting for a while) and this has revealed the colour as definitely brown not green.


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## Guest (Sep 12, 2007)

If the solid portion of the droppings are black, he's been eating bread one of the worst foods people think are good for birds. In a normal bird, the solid portion of the dropping is usually brown with a white urate center. If there is excessive amount of fluid in the droppings, it will show on paper towelling. Basically, the excessive liquid should begin to go away as the bird eats a more normal and regular diet of seed. It's too early to tell anything right now. He needs time to get used to a proper diet. 
It's hard to picture the position of the rear toe from your posts but that's only because we don't have a picture. If there is any possibility that the rear toe nail will grow and eventually penetrate the foot, that's a problem. If you don't think that will happen, then it's fine and you don't have to worry about it. From your description, he may lose the rear toe. It all depends on how deeply the string has penetrated.


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## doctor_beat (Sep 12, 2007)

pigeonperson said:


> If the solid portion of the droppings are black, he's been eating bread one of the worst foods people think are good for birds. In a normal bird, the solid portion of the dropping is usually brown with a white urate center. If there is excessive amount of fluid in the droppings, it will show on paper towelling. Basically, the excessive liquid should begin to go away as the bird eats a more normal and regular diet of seed. It's too early to tell anything right now. He needs time to get used to a proper diet.
> It's hard to picture the position of the rear toe from your posts but that's only because we don't have a picture. If there is any possibility that the rear toe nail will grow and eventually penetrate the foot, that's a problem. If you don't think that will happen, then it's fine and you don't have to worry about it. From your description, he may lose the rear toe. It all depends on how deeply the string has penetrated.


There's no danger of it penetrating the foot as long as it stays in its current position. It isn't the rear toe that I am talking about, it's one of the outer front toes. Unfortunately, the rear toe has already died and dropped off- all that remained was a stub with thread tightly wrapped around it. The other two toes are perfectly fine. 
I was very thorough when I removed the thread, so it's just a matter of waiting to see if the damaged toe received a sufficient blood supply to keep it alive.

The back toe had been constricted on a thin part, which is presumably why it had already dropped off, but the damaged toe was wrapped in the fleshier part where it joins the foot so there was more leeway. I'm assuming that it was still getting some circulation because otherwise it would have dropped off already like the rear toe has.

Is the colour of the toe significant? It still looks pink and healthy and the claw is intact.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Hi,

Yep, was tucked up for the night by then.

Thanks for the email etc,. Pidgey. Only just picking up on this now because I'm at work and it's first chance I got since.

Looks like the suggestions so far about cover it. As you'll see from my info, I'm nowhere near you. I don't know of any experienced forum members who are, unfortunately.

From what I'm reading, his poops are about right. They would normally be firm but not hard, more or less rounded, brown to olive green, white cap of urates. Overnight poops may be larger and squidgy but w same texture. If there were any concurrent illness, it would take a bird-experienced vet to diagnose them. Another problem, finding one who knows birds well and would deal with a feral w/o just saying "We'll put him down". 

Fortunate the RSPCA did say they wouldn't take pigeons. If they had they would just kill it anyway. It's hard enough to get 'em interested in actual cruelty to pigeons, let alone simply an injured one!

We have several rescued pigeons who have lost toes through getting threads round them, or have lost a whole foot as it became like a mostly necrotic ball. We have one with just stumps, and he is absolutely fine like that. I have a feral who comes to me for food here in Sussex who is now in his ninth year (at least) - he lost both feet and survived unaided close to seven years ago. We have unstrung several 'in situ' and just let 'em go on their way if it was straightforward enough.

If you have a friendly vet (we use the vets at 'Companion Care', which is in some of the larger 'Pets At Home' stores, mostly) they would probably prescribe Synulox, which is pretty much our equivalent what a previous (US) poster mentioned, for possible infection.

John


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## doctor_beat (Sep 12, 2007)

Excellent news!    

Well I have just checked in on him, and it seems he's made a good recovery!

His injured toe has straightened out, which is a relief, and he seems to be able to stand normally.
Looking at him now, he is still lifting his foot, but he was standing on it normally for quite a while before that, so it's obviously giving him a great deal less pain than it was last night.
He's really alert and has definitely eaten some food overnight. He's also preening himself and pecking the floor and generally behaving like a pigeon  
He pooped in the night, and it seems 100% healthy.

My theory is that because his toe was beginning to die off, he was in a great deal of pain, and it had eventually got to him and he had given up.
Now the string is off, his toe has pretty much returned to normal and so has he.
I'm going to keep him here until he can use his foot normally, then let him go where I found him.
Considering the dramatic recovery his foot has made overnight, I doubt that will be long.

Looking over at him now, I can see him testing his foot by gingerly putting weight on it, and at the moment he is using both feet to stand and preen himself. Job done!

I'm really pleased that I was able to help this little guy, he would certainly have died without intervention.
I can't thank you guys enough for your expert advice and fast responses. I'm quite experienced with animals, but birds are new to me and you stopped me feeling so helpless.

I'll post an update when I let him go.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hello, welcome and thank you, Doctor Beat! I am in East Anglia.

St Tiggywinkles advises to keep birds that have been caught in string inside for a week to monitor for pressure necrosis, and to massage distally (*at the point furthest up the leg from the injury*) with Preparation H to help restore circulation...don't rub it into the wound, that can cause infection.

When they are caught feral pigeons will seldom have the sort of poops that a healthy captive pigeon would have because of their feral diet, which is usually high in fat. Healthy poops aren't dry, they are firm, brown (or greenish according to what they have been eating) , coiled into a firmish moist lump (rather like oil paint) and topped with urates. But your pigeon's poops sound pretty healthy considering the difficulty that he must have had competing for food.

They can feel a lot of pain in their feet, so when the thread has been removed they will hold the foot up or limp for a while.

There can be pockets of infection in a thread damaged foot, these usually look yellow.

I have some suitable antibiotics that I can share with you if you PM me your address. The course is 5 - 7 days.

I think that the pigeon would be better for convalecing with you and being released in his own territory, but we have a member in you area that can advise about where to take it or where not to take it if you need help!

Cynthia


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## doctor_beat (Sep 12, 2007)

Hi Cynthia,
I have examined his foot very closely with a jeweller's loupe and there are absolutely no signs of infection or necrosis. It's strange, the wound isn't even moist and the skin doesn't appear to be broken. It looks as though the string tightened very gradually and the tissue had a chance to give way without the thread cutting into it. There are no pockets of yellow as you described, but I'm going to monitor it very closely. If I see the slightest sign of infection I'll take you up on your kind offer of antibiotics.

Oil paint is a good description of what his faeces look like. I think he's probably had a reasonably good diet as he lives in the city centre so there's plenty of restaurant bins around, and also people feed them in the park. He also looks plump and well fed and generally in good health.

I'll keep him for as long as is necessary to assure myself that his foot is ok, and I'll be sure to ask for help if I'm worried about him.

Right, I'm off to buy bird seed and preparation H.
It's not for me, I'm buying it to rub on a pigeon's foot, honest.....


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Doctor Beat,

LOL!

I am so glad that he is making a quick recovery. String injuries can be so satisfying to deal with because you know exactly what you are saving the pigeon from. A lot of us carry a "string injury kit" so that we can cut pigeons loose from thread wherever we see them (and are able to catch them).


Cynthia


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## doctor_beat (Sep 12, 2007)

Well he must have been at his wit's end because I had no trouble whatsoever catching him.
He's doing great now, he's standing on his bad foot for extended periods and is able to walk (although still limping badly).
Compared with how he was yesterday, he has made remarkable progress. He wouldn't put his foot down at all and was using a wing to support himself when sitting to take the pressure off the bad foot.
His bad toe, although not 100%, has straightened out considerably and it looks like it's going to be ok.

At the moment he is standing in my living room pecking millet and barley and preening his feathers  

If he carries on recovering at this rate, I'll be able to release him very soon.

He just did a nice big poo on my floor! That's the thanks I get?!
Ungrateful so and so........


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, you know, their "job" in the grand scheme is consuming unwanted and extra grain and converting it to fertilizer so that the rest of us can more easily grow more for ourselves. When you view it in that light, he's thanking you the best that he knows how so what are you complaining for?

Pidgey


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

*Birmingham Pigeon*

Hi Dr Beat,

Just had a message to look at your thread as I live in Birmingham area. I recently became aware of the amount of string injured pigeons in the centre, while sitting eating a sandwich out side M&S. I've started to carry some small scissors and thread cutter now in case I can ever get near enough to catch one. ( Haven't managed it yet, but I don't go into town every week).). You'll find now you are aware of it they seem to pop up all over the place, hope you can help some more. (It does help if they stay put and let you pick them up like yours did!!).  

I was so angry watching a girl a couple of days ago when I was in Sheffield. She actually had crutches and was swiping at a poor pigeon that only had one foot and was limping about near her looking for food. You'd think someone who needed crutches would be sympathetic to a disabled pigeon. They do have a hard time.  Your pigeon seems to be doing ok and was lucky to have come across you. 

We're very badly off for bird friendly rescue centres in Birmingham but if you did need help I was put in touch with Holly Trees Animal Rescue, Packhorse Lane, Hollywood. 01564 823244. I haven't actually been there though. I have taken birds to The British Widlife Rescue Centre, Amerton Farm before now. They are very knowledgable with birds and do take pigeons. They have an open aviary that they put them in when releasable, and they can either go or stay if they wish. It takes me about 40 minutes to drive there from Sutton Coldfield where I live, obviously would be further from Birmingham. It doesn't sound as if you'll need it but should it be necessary, I would drive it up there for you if necessary, but won't be around until next week now.

I'm in Cardiff tomorrow, but I'll keep an eye on this thread and you can send me a PM or email should you need my help.

Good luck with your pigeon, and it's good to know of someone else who cares in Brum !!


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Well, think of it as payment for services rendered  After all, fertilizer is pretty valuable.


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## doctor_beat (Sep 12, 2007)

Lol! I didn't think of it that way- well he sure has 'fertilized' my living room floor nicely  
I have thanked him by putting him in his box with fresh paper and plenty of food and water.
I have actually gained something from this experience because in order to care or him, I have read up on pigeons. They are really interesting animals and now I know a bit more about them, I will now appreciate them more when I see them around town.
I can see why you lot like them so much.

My girlfriend didn't like pigeons, and shared the usual opinion that they are diseased vermin. Now she has helped me to free the little guy from the thread and helped care for him, she has grown fond of him, so she has gained something too.

Amyable, I found him not far from where you were sitting the other day. Do you know the Oasis? I work in there, and I found him nearby outside Bright House.
It was one of the staff from Bright House who originally called the RSPCA, and she ran up to me today and asked how the pigeon was. She was very relieved that he was ok.

I have a miniature swiss army knife with a good pair of scissors on it. I think I'm going to use my bench grinder to round the points off the blades and pop it on my keyring in case I spot any more pigeons in the same predicament.


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## doctor_beat (Sep 12, 2007)

flitsnowzoom said:


> Well, think of it as payment for services rendered  After all, fertilizer is pretty valuable.


You are quite right- bird droppings, or _'guano'_ used to be a very valuable commodity in the days before artificial fertilizers. 
People used to fight over tiny volcanic islands in the Pacific because sea birds used to alight on them and deposit _guano_, which was shipped out by the ton.

Maybe it will be valuable again soon now that people are demanding organically grown produce.

In fact, I have changed my mind. Instead of releasing the pigeon, I'm going to keep him and stockpile his _guano_....


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## doctor_beat (Sep 12, 2007)

Well, I just looked up _guano_ on wikipedia and it seems that it is still a valuable commodity even today:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guano

And to think I've been throwing it in the bin!


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

dr. B...

Just read your thread (no pun intended) and thoroughly enjoyed. I am VERY happy to hear about your pigeon's excellent recovery. From what you had posted, I wasn't surprised that he is doing so well!

WELCOME TO THE WORLD OF PIGEONS!!

Sometimes, the ONLY way for a person to find out just how wonderful these birds REALLY are, is to find a "right" one, no matter what the problem. They certainly have a way of getting into your heart - sometimes without any "conscious" knowlege...then, of course, it's too late. Once a pigeon person, always a pigeon person!

My spoiled pij cannot fly and will always be an earthbound bird. Since he does have free rein to roam about, he does his best to keep me supplied with LOTS of _guano_ - IF I don't put his "diaper" on! 

Welcome to our site. We hope you will stay connected!     

Shi & Squeaks


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hi doctor

I have enjoyed your posts a lot and want to thank you for rescuing this little guy. I'm so happy that there are now two more people who realize how nice pigeons are. I really never knew either until we started picking them up about 14 years ago and I can't imagine what I did without them.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

*Birmingham Pigeons*

Hi Dr Beat,

I know Oasis well, and the pigeons around there.

If you ever get a chance, around M&S and Barretts, I've seen a pigeon that has string/wire tied around both feet. I did try once to catch it but it became very wary once it knew I had my eye on it. Just thought, now you have caught the pigeon bug, if two of us keep an eye open for it, one of us might get lucky one day and get the chance to free it.  

I had some very good advice once from Canaryjayne on how she catches injured birds in her part of the world. If you have time one day have a look at the thread in the Feral Pigeon section: Catching 'string injured' birds in the city centre. It is really interesting.

Anyway, hope your little one's still doing ok.

Amyable


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## doctor_beat (Sep 12, 2007)

Maybe it's the same bird- he did have both feet tangled but fortunately only one was injured. I'll go and search for that post, maybe it'll come in handy one day.


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## doctor_beat (Sep 12, 2007)

Well Stanley (as my girlfriend has named him  ) is recovering really well. His toe has levelled out completely and he's using his foot normally, he doesn't hold it up or limp any more. 
He still has a nasty groove where the string was, but it doesn't seem to be causing him any trouble and there is no sign of broken skin let alone infection.
I have been soaking his feet by putting him in shallow lukewarm water, then drying them off and applying prep. H as instructed.

I am going to keep him for a bit longer to be on the safe side, but I'm pretty confident that I'll be able to release him in the next day or two.
I just have a couple more questions

When I first got him, you'll see from my posts that he had brown poo. Now he has been eating a proper diet (millet, corn, barley) his poo has turned green. Is this because of his system adjusting to different food, or is it a warning that something is amiss? I don't want to release him only to have him die from a disease.

In fact, looking at the poo he has just done, it's actually quite liquid and the urates are greenish too....

Secondly, I live about 10 mins walk from where I found him. Is it very important to release him exactly where I found him, or am I close enough?
The reason I ask is because there are a lot of people and cars where I found him, and I'm worried that something may happen to him in the time where he is adjusting to being free again.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*re breakfast cereal*

Hello doctor beat,

I have read only the first two posts, but since I see you are online, i will quickly mention that chocolate is poisonous to birds, so no chocolate-flavored cereal.

YouTube had a video of some girls in England having fun feeding M&Ms to pigeons. Wonder if, how many pigeons died, and did the girls ever realize what they may have done? 

Larry


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*re heat mat*

Hello doctor beat,

Another question. In post number 9 of this thread, you say you have a *heat mat*, which you use for your snakes. 

I have been using an inexpensive heating pad, designed for humans. Three heat settings, no specified heat temperature. My pad is old (second-hand), has some kinks, and therefore some hot spots and some cold spots. Plastic gets rather hot, and cloth cover tends to get soiled rapidly with poops. 

There is a reptile and amphibian supply house nearby. Are there specific mats made for such creatures? Do they have specific heat settings (do you know the precise temperatures, or something preferable to stage 1, 2, 3? We humans don't need to know too much more than these settings, because the manufacturers assume that adult humans will be using the pads to relieve aches and pains associated with aging, and the intended user (adult humans) will be able to adjust the heat setting, regulate the temperature according to feel and preference, and be able to move away from or completely off of the pad should it be too hot. Small animals may not have that ability or choice.

Also, are such pads easy to clean? Expensive? In different sizes? Might be a good thing for pigeon rescuers to have.

Thanks for any reply.

Larry (in Cologne, Germany, but from Texas).


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

*Birmingham Pigeons*

Hi again,

It would be great if that was the same bird, I always felt bad that I had one good chance to catch it and blew it. There are a fair few birds around Brum with string problems but that one had double trouble.

I'll be interested to see what an expert replies regarding your query on green poos. There's a pigeon I'm keeping an eye on in an aviary I know of. It has a damaged wing and kept falling over when it arrived. It had the brightest green poo I have ever seen caked on it. They let me clean it up, and now this week it's poo is a normal brown and white. I have been giving it diluted Organic Apple Cider in it's water. I read about it's benefits on this forum. As I don't have direct responsiblity for the bird, and very little knowledge, I just try and do what I can discreetly when I visit. I'd like to know what else I can do, so I'll watch the replies to yours.

I hope it isn't too serious after all you care.


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Larry, my caged bird experts (experts in caged birds, not experts that happen to be caged and birds  ) ) recommend reptile-specific heat sources because they (birds and reptiles) are more closely related on the ancestral line than birds and mammals. Hah! I knew that just by watching my lovebird pursue my toes when we'd play chase back when long before _Jurassic Park _ever came on the scene. (Schroeder had a personality much more engaging than most humans) -- but I digress. 

The bird people I talk to say the heat range is fine for the birds and more appropriate than the human heating pads. I know I'm going to invest in the reptile heat lamps because winter is coming on and I need some supplemental heat for the birdies (I can't afford to heat my house as high as I need to). My birds are not pigeons, however -- parakeets and tiny tiny finches. 

If you have access to a nearby herp supply house, by all means see what they have. The reptile bulbs are pretty easy to find, but I've not seen mats sold in the Pets-mart type places here. I've not checked the nearby herp store however. If you find something, let us know. There's a very large bird show in a month or so in Denver and I'll be looking for stuff there.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

Hello flitsnowzoom,

Thanks for your reply.

Googling showed me some reptile mats (smallish pictures) priced around $26 (in U.S. page). 

Looked at website of Zoologia on Bonner Strasse in Cologne, where I was Friday last week when the vet (to whom I took pigeon rescue Luxie-311 -- who still doesn't have use of tail but can maneuver reasonably well in flight so far) sold me a feeding tube, but before he located one recommended the amphibian and reptile supply shop around the corner from him, saying that I should ask for aquarium tubing to use as a feeding tube. His secretary said I should web-search for _Ernnährungssonde_ (she wrote it down for me; would never know what to search under). Also searched under _Kropfnadel _(crop [feeding] needle). Bought a meter of soft rubber tubing for thirty cents Euro (forty cents USD $). Zoologia closed the minute I found their website, at 16:00! Will have to check Monday.

About heat lamps: Wouldn't constant lighting bother birds? Snakes and such in terrariums are usually provided plants and/or rocks for shelter. Also I wonder about excessively lowering the relative humidity when a bird is recuperating, even though they can access water. Dry air dries out my mucus membranes and drives me nuts sometimes, even though I drink a lot, and can make one more susceptible to airborne microbes. When the weather changes, many Germans catch colds, partly, I suspect, due to dry air from electric heating on public transportation. A friend has built-in electric heating in the floor (ten percent higher heating costs than with normal steam heating and wall radiators) and is always afflicted with the latest cold virus going round. 

Larry


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Hadn't thought of the humidity issue. Around here (on the High Plains and the Southwest) if the humidity gets much over 20% to 30%, we pretty much wilt. San Antonio has way too much humidity for this Amarillo kid -- and boy, those mesquite trees were awfully tall.!

Get one of those cool-mist vaporizors to add moisture if you want or just put a bowl of water in the area so it can evaporate. That might work.


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## doctor_beat (Sep 12, 2007)

Well, I just got back to find him dead.
I have no idea what caused it, but I guess it must have been a systemic infection.
It's so weird, he really seemed to be fine when I left for work today and I was really expecting to be releasing him tomorrow.
I just can't believe that an animal can be so inquisitive and full of life one minute and then die so suddenly. 

I guess I gave him a few extra days and at least he died somewhere peaceful, but I'm still gutted.

Thanks for your help everyone, it's horrible, but you can't win 'em all.


Incidentally, heat mats are sold for various animals, they all do the same thing. The important thing is to regulate the mat with a good thermostat, and also use a separate thermometer to make sure the temperature is correct.


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Hi dr beat,
I'm so sorry. I know how shocking, sad, disappointing that is, to think a bird is getting better and then to experience a sudden loss like that. The bird clearly did have systemic infection, which makes sense given string pigeons are usually very hard to catch. But given the bird died so quickly, that means there probably was nothing you could've done, he was really sick. 
Again, I'm so sorry for your loss.
Sabina


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

WHAT A SHOCK, dr. beat!

I am so SORRY!!

Every so often we hear of sudden deaths like yours when the bird seemed to be doing so well! So unexpected and unprepared!

R.I.P. Stanley...

We know you did the best you could and things were sounding so good. 

Sending HUGS and COMFORTING THOUGHTS!

Shi & Squeaks


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

*Stanley*

Hi Dr Beat,

I was so sorry to read that Stanley had died. As you say, he must have been at the end of his tether to have been so easy to catch. Nice to think he was comfortable without his string and safe with you for a while.

Sadly the wood pigeon that first got me in touch with 'Pigeon Talk' also died suddenly this week. There seemed no reason for his untimely death, but the way I feel, there was a reason for his life. Like you and your girlfriend, coming across this bird got me to see pigeons in a new light, and I certainly will do all I can now if I get the chance to help another one. Someone's got to look out for the Birmingham Piggies. 

All the best and thanks.

Amyable.


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Oh, I'm so sorry to read about Stanley. You freed him from that horrible string and helped him feel so much better. I know it was so much better for him with you than out there in the wilds where his death would have gone unremarked by anyone and the getting there would have been so hard on him.

Bless you for taking care of Stanley. He's soaring free and easy now. 

RIP Stanley.

Feather hugs 

Flitsnowzoom


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