# Staf Van Reets real time performance!!!



## Melsloft (Apr 27, 2007)

~~~~I want to point out to everyone here the outstanding results the Staf Van Reets have shown here in the US as well as abroad. These GREAT results are up to speed with today's racing scene. Please take the time to view the below results and Congratulations to Staf Van Reet and Tom Demartino's colony of direct Staf Van Reets which keep proving they are among the world's best racing poigeons you can purchase that win against thousands!!!

The results are in for the 2007 old bird series. Congratulations to Mike & Fay Schaefer and Bill Tadlock for having a great season winning 1st and 2nd Place IF Hall Of Fame Honors in the 26-75 loft catagory. These two pigeons scored the most points of all the Hall Of Fame entree's with a wopping 276.24 and 355.96. The 1st place winner was bred by Mike and Bill from one of their top performance families. The 2nd place winner was part of a kit bred by Tom DeMartino of New York's Sleepy Hollow Loft. This hen is a double grand daughter of Staf Van Reet's 10 X winner Den Don. In the past 4 years the Staf Van Reet pigeons at Sleepy Hollow Loft have produced 3 Hall Of Fame winners for different handlers across the USA. The combination of good pigeons and good handlers have again produced the top award winners. Job well done! 

Click here: http://www.ifpigeon.com/IF/awards/hof.pdf 

I.F. Hall Of Fame - 2007
I. F. Hall Of Fame
Old bird
******** 151-500 ********
Pos Band Number Loft Name Points
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1 AU-05-GL-1326 Steve Balog Jr/Steve Balog Jr, Piscataway NJ. 298.09
******** 26-75 ********
Pos Band Number Loft Name Points
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1 IF-04-NKC-5028 Mike & Fay Schaefer& B Tadlock/Charlotte Hall, Davidsonville 376.24
2 IF-04-TDM-1391 Mike & Fay Schaefer& B Tadlock/Charlotte Hall, Davidsonville 355.96

the below are the current winning results from Staf Van Reet 

Results by telephone National.

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ARGENTON
Zaterdag 11 Augustus 2007
CUREGHEM CENTRE





CUREGHEM CENTRE 
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ARGENTON 11-08-07 20844 JONGE LOS TE-LACHES A : 8.00 
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NR NAAM GEMEENTE AD IG AFSTAND RING JR BESTAT SNELH. 
NO NOM LOCALITE EN MQ DISTANC BAGUE AN CONSTAT VITESSE 
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1 DE KEYZER MARCEL MESSELBR 4 2 549608 2057206 7 141945.0 1447,29 
2 VERMEERBERGEN-VAN REE MOL 31 6 573211 6356105 7 143804.0 1439,98 
3 DE JONG DICK BALEN 12 5 578127 6157031 7 144147.0 1438,90 
4 VAN EYNDE - GOOVAERTS PUTTE 14 14 543949 6320803 7 141816.0 1438,00 
5 VAN AVONDT H & ZOON HAACHT 26 4 538735 2038170 7 141513.2 1435,78 
6 SCHEERS MAURICE HEIST/BE 4 2 548446 6226327 7 142230.0 1433,84 
7 REYNIERS HENRI LUBBEEK 28 28 536146 2052256 7 141357.0 1433,73 
8 LOOMANS ARON TESSENDE 10 1 561367 5035525 7 143157.1 1432,23 
9 SCHROYENS HUBERT ITEGEM 29 4 554175 6077242 7 142748.0 1429,02 
10 VERMEERBERGEN-VAN REE MOL 31 2 2 6356052 7 144123.0 1428,08 
11 DERWA ALBERT HERENT 34 4 535053 2061097 7 141440.0 1428,07 



Nationa(a)l ARGENTON 2007 Cureghem-centre

Telefonische aanmeldingen Nationaal.
Results by telephone National.

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ARGENTON
Zaterdag 11 Augustus 2007
CUREGHEM CENTRE





CUREGHEM CENTRE 
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ARGENTON 11-08-07 5927 JAARSE LOS TE-LACHES A : 8.00  
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NR NAAM GEMEENTE AD IG AFSTAND RING JR BESTAT SNELH. 
NO NOM LOCALITE EN MQ DISTANC BAGUE AN CONSTAT VITESSE 
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1 SCHMITT KENJI AVERBODE 2 1 554208 2083062 6 143032.1 1419,09 
2 ENGELS JOS & JULES PUTTE 17 10 545711 6154543 6 142559.0 1413,81 
3 VAN AVONDT H & ZOON HAACHT 6 1 538735 2075050 6 142115.2 1413,06 
4 VERMEERBERGEN-VAN REE MOL 23 1 573211 6329188 6 144710.0 1407,80 


These are most impressive given that the Van Reets are competing against tens of thousands of birds, here are some more impressive results that Tom Demartino has bred here in the US from the Van Reets



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Band # Breeder Handler Diploma



TDM-2247/06 TDM G. West 1st Club x 13 min. 



TDM-2092/06 TDM C. Baynon 1st Club 



TDM-2091/06 TDM C. Baynon 1st SLI Auction



TDM-2049/06 TDM Van Veldhuisen GHC Classic $ Winner



TDM-2063/06 TDM E. Martin 4TH LIN Derby @423m 



TDM-1636/05 TDM M. Parada 1st, 1st Club



GRC-0060/05 M. Iwanicki M. Iwanicki 1st 200m X 9 min.



CCPF-520/05 M. Dolley A. Frampton 2nd GHC Classic



EMFA-129/05 TDM M. Parada 1st 150m, 1st 400m 



TDM-1297/04 TDM M. Iwanicki 2nd 300m. Club 



TDM-1252/04 TDM TDM 1st Club



TDM-1149/04 TDM T. Costa 2nd Combine



TDM-1391/04 TDM B. Tadlock 1st,1st,2nd,2nd,8th Com.

TDM-0600/04 TDM M. Parada 1st IF HOF 4X's 1st



TDM-1194/04 TDM E. Finch 1st Club x 7min



TDM-1300/04 TDM M. Iwanicki 1st Club x 17 min



ELI-1418/03 M. Parada M. Parada 4 X’s 1st Club



GHC-4124/03 S. Becarevic S. Becarevic 1st, GHC Auction

300m. vs 13,000bds

1st 212m. Club

EVC-0129/03 D. Wolf J. Holder 5th AU HOF Winner



TDM-0627/03 TDM Koehn Multiple Race winner



TDM-0204/02 TDM J. Polite Equal 1st Club



TDM-0205/02 TDM J. Polite 4th 400 miles



X-294/01 G. Johnson L. Crocket 4 X’s 1st Club



ELI-1222/01 TDM J.Wenige 2nd Combine



ELI-1223/01 TDM E. Finch 1st Club



EMF-10199/01 TDM D&M Loft 2nd Club 5th OOA



ELI-1172/01 TDM TDM 1st Cl. & 2nd Com. 



EMF-10616/01 TDM D&M Loft 8th Place @314m 



ELI-1204/01 TDM M&S Loft 3rd vs 1817bds. 

GHC Classic $ Winner



ELI-1223/01 TDM E. Finch 1st Combine



ELI-1228/01 TDM J. Leggio 1st SLI Auction



ELI-1208/01 TDM S. Alberg 4th OOA



Mclofts-222/98 Mcloft H&F Loft 1st, 200 miles



ARPU-13430/96 D. Ensley D.Ensley 1st Nat.Sp.Rec.

2552 YPM

http://www.sleepyhollowloft.com/Home.htm


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## LuisO (Nov 14, 2005)

Nice!! Mel I Sent You A Pm! Luis


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

No doubt these are good quality SVR birds. Warren and I bash the SVR's a bit, but their are many good colonies of SVR's. My SVR cross is still alive in a futurity and could win some money. This is the last chance for the pair. They seem to fly well, but I have a hard time keeping them around, losses are greater than normal. 

Randy


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

*Staf Van Reets ?*

"....The 1st place winner was bred by Mike and Bill from one of their top performance families. The 2nd place winner was part of a kit bred by Tom DeMartino of New York's Sleepy Hollow Loft......" 

These people are apparently breeding some good pigeons, and they should get all the credit they deserve. So, my question is why are they being called "Staf Van Reets"....he apparently did not breed these birds... ....It would seem to me that it would be more intellectually honest to say the breeders were "Mike & Fay Schaefer and Bill Tadlock" and The 2nd place winner was part of a kit bred by Tom DeMartino of New York's Sleepy Hollow Loft. Then one could say that their colony's are based partly on foundation bird's obtained from Staf Van Reet.

This is not to take anything away from Staf Van Reet, or anyone else. My only point is when do these birds become "Schaefer's", "Tadlock's" or "DeMartino's" ? How many generation's of pigeons or fancier's must oversee the selection process before they cease to be called "Staf Van Reets" ? And for that matter, the same applies to any other family of birds. 

According to the European fanciers, American's especially, are obsessed with the "names" and "strains" and in turn the "pedigrees" instead of focusing on "good" birds.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

hillfamilyloft said:


> No doubt these are good quality SVR birds. Warren and I bash the SVR's a bit, but their are many good colonies of SVR's. My SVR cross is still alive in a futurity and could win some money. This is the last chance for the pair. They seem to fly well, but I have a hard time keeping them around, losses are greater than normal.
> 
> Randy



Now Randy,

I never bashed any of SVR's bird's.............I am sure if I raced in his club that he would clean my clock every week ! I am sure that he is a much better fancier then myself, and that certainly explains much of his success.

If someone wants to compare bird vs bird, rather then fancier vs fancier or loft location vs loft location, or system vs system...then in my mind, the only real test is a series of well run races in a International One Loft Challenge.  

If birds decended down from SVR are in fact the fastest birds, then someone should clean up in such an event and take everyone's money.  

Of course if a bird I own should win such an event, you can be sure that the credit should really go to the breeder of the bird, and not the breeder of this bird's grandfather or great great grandfather or mother etc. etc. 

Only in America do we say this bird is an "XYZ" because four generations ago, a bird was imported into the country from "XYZ"............Now you know why America has so few homegrown champion families...because we always pay homage to some fancier in Europe who would not even recognize the birds which carry his name.


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Now Randy,
> 
> I never bashed any of SVR's bird's.............I am sure if I raced in his club that he would clean my clock every week ! I am sure that he is a much better fancier then myself, and that certainly explains much of his success.
> 
> ...


Excellent point Warren, excellent point!


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Now Randy,
> 
> I never bashed any of SVR's bird's.............I am sure if I raced in his club that he would clean my clock every week ! I am sure that he is a much better fancier then myself, and that certainly explains much of his success.
> 
> ...


 Good point>>, Here in the U S people use a name. NOW in show birds they do for a short time then when they build there family there birds are basicly theres. NO big name from the past. BASE line is the only place the past name can be held. Down the line on the ped, You do your best the birds get credit and you the breeder should NOT A sale name. AND as you said those persons baring the named breed 9 out of 10 would not claim the bird as they never set down the mating that produced it.


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## Melsloft (Apr 27, 2007)

*anaylize this*

What you guys fail to realize is that there is a difference between pigeons as in between a American Pit Bull and a Staffordshire Bull Terrier. They are both dogs and to an "untrained" eye look and act the same but there is a world of difference in the performance and character of the two. They carry their given name as do the Staf Van Reet's Ludo Claessens , Devriendts ........to differentiate between them for those who know.


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

Melsloft said:


> What you guys fail to realize is that there is a difference between pigeons as in between a American Pit Bull and a Staffordshire Bull Terrier. They are both dogs and to an "untrained" eye look and act the same but there is a world of difference in the performance and character of the two. *They carry their given name as do the Staf Van Reet's Ludo Claessens , Devriendts ........to differentiate between them for those who know.*




The only problem with this logic is that after about two generations of breeding, the offspring have about a 25% resemblance to the original, genetically speaking. Can that really be called a Staf Van Reet, Claessens or whoever else bred the initial bird? I don't think so. Give credit where credit is due. Of course, hats off to the originals. Without their genious and inbreeding skill, the original wouldn't be original. However, the breeder of the current generation should also be given the credit for their successes as they were the ones with the forsight to plan the breeding in the first place.

Dan


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

*Breeding show dogs, working dogs and racing pigeons.*



Melsloft said:


> What you guys fail to realize is that there is a difference between pigeons as in between a American Pit Bull and a Staffordshire Bull Terrier. They are both dogs and to an "untrained" eye look and act the same but there is a world of difference in the performance and character of the two. They carry their given name as do the Staf Van Reet's Ludo Claessens , Devriendts ........to differentiate between them for those who know.


Hello Mel,

There is also a huge difference between a real, honest to goodness International Champion American Pit Bull and the dogs which are labeled as American Pit Bull pups in the classified ads of your local newspaper. The owner may or may not have papers, but assures you they are "purebred". 

Another example would be, there is a world of difference between the dogs that Luis Doberman bred and the current show dogs bearing his name. Generations of whimpy breeders have turned the breed into something totally different then what Mr. Doberman himself was trying to create.

The point here being that once the orginals leave the mother loft, and other fanciers are doing the selecting, at some point they are no longer the same pigeons. Particularly in the USA, people will claim to own "Pure XYZ" when in fact, the creator of the XYZ family or strain has been dead for 80 years. Even if very carefully linebred all those generations.....the selections were done by someone other then Mr. XYZ, and in most cases, many different people...and more then likely with an accidential cross slipped in there now and again.

Before this becomes a book,...too much attention or concern is given to what the "Name" or "Strain" is assigned to a bird, and not enough attention to finding good pigeons. Far as I can tell, nobody in the world has a monopoly on good pigeons. And for the most part, you can't buy a good pigeon, you have to breed one yourself. Once a person understands this, they will be that much closer to breeding good birds also. Well...that is the conclusion I have come to anyway.....


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## DEEJAY7950 (Dec 13, 2006)

consider this, the boys over there in "Belgium" have been doing this for such a long time that they do have the Superior birds to breed from and we are just lucky to get their scraps, lol only kidding, some flyers have gotten excellent stock birds, but on the whole those "Belgium" boys have the cream of the crop hands down, I'm amazed when i check out their birds in the many videos I've seen, they stand out like a sore thumb and i would like to reach right through this screen and grab as many as i can lol!


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

DEEJAY7950 said:


> consider this, the boys over there in "Belgium" have been doing this for such a long time that they do have the Superior birds to breed from and we are just lucky to get their scraps, lol only kidding, some flyers have gotten excellent stock birds, but on the whole those "Belgium" boys have the cream of the crop hands down, I'm amazed when i check out their birds in the many videos I've seen, they stand out like a sore thumb and i would like to reach right through this screen and grab as many as i can lol!




Dee Jay,

If one was to read all those slick magazine advertisements on the cover's of those Racing Magazines, one would have to believe...that the "Best" were imported into the USA by dealers, and now for the price of a used car, you can purchase a youngster off one of these great champs..."Guaranteed To Produce Winners !"...... 

Now...if that was true...how come's the best then are still over there in Europe some place ? And many fanciers over there did not even understand what a pedigree was, until American pigeon dealers explained it to them !!  

Are you suggesting that American's by and large have been sold a bill of goods ?!


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## DEEJAY7950 (Dec 13, 2006)

Not sure exactly what you mean warren, but you and I know pedigrees guarantee nothing but the foundation of a birds background, every bird is an individual with it's own make up of genetic traits many of which are passed down to the young but then again much can be passed by from one generation to another only to show up in later generations! All I'm trying to say is that the stock of birds in Belgium have been bred for so long and that only the best of the best were bred and it shows in the stock they have! Those that have been fortunate to receive such birds as their stock breeders or foundation stock do have a slight advantage over those of us not able to get our hands on such stock! Many of the top Flyer's in the UK have these birds and after many generations or so have developed their own strains that have proven themselves over time! I don't think Americans have been sold a bill of goods but rather a piece of paper that guarantees nothing except bloodlines, no harm it that, I would like to start with six pairs of birds from Belgium and see where it takes me!


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

DEEJAY7950 said:


> Not sure exactly what you mean warren, but you and I know pedigrees guarantee nothing but the foundation of a birds background, every bird is an individual with it's own make up of genetic traits many of which are passed down to the young but then again much can be passed by from one generation to another only to show up in later generations! All I'm trying to say is that the stock of birds in Belgium have been bred for so long and that only the best of the best were bred and it shows in the stock they have! Those that have been fortunate to receive such birds as their stock breeders or foundation stock do have a slight advantage over those of us not able to get our hands on such stock! Many of the top Flyer's in the UK have these birds and after many generations or so have developed their own strains that have proven themselves over time! I don't think Americans have been sold a bill of goods but rather a piece of paper that guarantees nothing except bloodlines, no harm it that, *I would like to start with six pairs of birds from Belgium and see where it takes me! *




Please do not take this wrong, but without the knowledge of how to manage the genetic material, I don't think it would get you anywhere. A little knowledge can be dangerous. No matter what you start with, you have to have a plan and direction and the know how to execute that plan in order to achieve success. There are certainly people that could pull that off but it takes research and committment. 

Starting with the finest stock certainly would provide a beneficial head start but it is not the silver bullett. Also, from what genetic background do most of your successful racers come from? Would this represent the most beneficial place to start a new colony of pigeons from? Do your research! 

Just some food for thought.

Dan


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

Perhaps I was unclear in the previous post. In no way did I intend that as an attack on DeeJay. He may very well posess the skills I refer to. My point was that the vast majority of American flyers do not. Genetic theory is not difficult to understand but it does take research and patience. Two things that I have found most people are unwilling or unable to excercise.

Hope that clears up the intent of my post.

Dan


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

learning said:


> Perhaps I was unclear in the previous post. In no way did I intend that as an attack on DeeJay. He may very well posess the skills I refer to. My point was that the vast majority of American flyers do not. Genetic theory is not difficult to understand *but it does take research and patience. Two things that I have found most people are unwilling or unable to excercise.*
> Hope that clears up the intent of my post.
> 
> Dan



That would be me......on both counts.......


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

A good debate would be which would be better?
Six pair of birds from belgium or Six pair of birds made up from the first drop of say the Flamingo, top 12 average speed World Ace Challenge birds, to 12 birds in the GCH yb series, or 12 birds from a family of say Art Hees etc. I think this way sometimes. Which 12 would I want to found my loft after. If I could get 12 culls from Marcel Sangers, Ludo, or Jos Thone I might go that rout. How about 12 futurity winners, I might go that rout. Or say 12 Yb from Art Hees. What a hard choice that would be. Warren went the Ludo rout. Ganus the winner rout. I like the proven family rout. Same as Warren, but my birds are not from Belgium. Just something to think about. 

Randy


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

When you are in a country that that has very large numbers of people raising and racing there birds. Not like the USA whewr yes alot of people race. bUT in smaller races You see the winners as better. If a 20.000 bird race happens there will still be the 1 winner If a 300 bird race there is still 1 winner. The USA is a large country ! loft races are starting to bring money and testing of the birds. STATE races would help also giving bigger numbers of the race total BUT there are combine races that help also. There are some very good birds here in the U S are they managed as well as belgium. Some are others are not. I think to much on peddigrees and close inbreeding to try to get back to a great grandfather is tearing down the birds. The bird in hand MUST have the tools to race and breed race birds .If not breeding back on a pedigree line is no good. Warren is right Put your time towards breeding the better bird NOt a pedigree that says it is supposed to be good. BEST birds in the world put in the wrong hands will soon be just so so birds. TEST the birds keep your records start good do not do fads and you know what your birds can do


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## Pigeon lower (Oct 23, 2007)

i justy saw this on a 2003 year au yearbook


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## DEEJAY7950 (Dec 13, 2006)

hillfamilyloft said:


> A good debate would be which would be better?
> Six pair of birds from belgium or Six pair of birds made up from the first drop of say the Flamingo, top 12 average speed World Ace Challenge birds, to 12 birds in the GCH yb series, or 12 birds from a family of say Art Hees etc. I think this way sometimes. Which 12 would I want to found my loft after. If I could get 12 culls from Marcel Sangers, Ludo, or Jos Thone I might go that rout. How about 12 futurity winners, I might go that rout. Or say 12 Yb from Art Hees. What a hard choice that would be. Warren went the Ludo rout. Ganus the winner rout. I like the proven family rout. Same as Warren, but my birds are not from Belgium. Just something to think about.
> 
> Randy


Now that would be very inteesting, how about that "Race in Holland" with the release of 250,000 birds i would like to see the top 12 there, hell i would like to see the top 100 birds! lol


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

hillfamilyloft said:


> A good debate would be which would be better?
> Six pair of birds from belgium or Six pair of birds made up from the first drop of say the Flamingo, top 12 average speed World Ace Challenge birds, to 12 birds in the GCH yb series, or 12 birds from a family of say Art Hees etc. I think this way sometimes. Which 12 would I want to found my loft after. If I could get 12 culls from Marcel Sangers, Ludo, or Jos Thone I might go that rout. How about 12 futurity winners, I might go that rout. Or say 12 Yb from Art Hees. What a hard choice that would be. Warren went the Ludo rout. Ganus the winner rout. I like the proven family rout. Same as Warren, but my birds are not from Belgium. Just something to think about.
> 
> Randy


Randy,

That might just very well make an interesting discussion....perhaps you could start a new thread.....we have another thread on Trentons...and as this one is suppose to be on Staf Van Reets.....

But just to set the facts straight......you said..... *"Warren went the Ludo rout."..... * which is really not true, and although I gained some small fame for bidding some of Ludo's bird's at Europe's PIPA public auction to I think it was 19,000 or 19,500 Euro ($26,600-$27,300 in today's dollars) and causing the PIPA auction to set a new price record at the time....my SFL USA lines have numerous Dutch Champions beside Ludo, I simply do not advertize all those whose birds I have acquired or am still acquiring, as I am not going to run the prices up for myself like in the past. I have used a number of fantastic birds, and they are where you find them....My web site drops a few fanciers names, after it became public knowledge. But, I really could care less about the "Name" of the fancier where I acquired them....and I'm not one to find one, and then place a full page ad telling the world, where I found it, I want another one, if it is ever produced.....and not at ten times the price of the first one. Just say I went the "Good" pigeon rout, and then used very selective breeding to build the Smith Family Lines........


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