# Prepotency....by Dr John Lamberton



## kalapati (Aug 29, 2006)

just want to share here.

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http://drjohnlamberton.com/blog12-2010.htm


PEDIGREES ARE ROAD MAPS FOR GENETIC COMPOSITIONS

Accurate four or five generation pedigrees are the only methods of evaluating the genetic make-up of racing pigeons. Evaluating "in the hand" will not reveal the genetic compositions of racing pigeons used for breeding. Probably the most popular theory for selecting breeders in the hand over the years is eye sign theory. Although there are fanciers who subscribe to its value to predict good breeders, eye sign does not reveal genetic make-ups. 

Genetic make-ups range from totally diverse compositions to totally identical compositions. Although pigeons with totally diverse genetic compositions will make excellent breeders, there is little information in their pedigrees that will yield accurate measurement of their breeding ability. Even if there are accomplished racing pigeons in their first or second generations, the only way of testing the true breeding ability of these pigeons is by trial and error. However, trial and error alone is a slow and tedious way to test breeders. It usually takes a period of years to thoroughly test the breeding ability of pigeons. However, there is a short cut to fanciers who like to study the genetic road maps that can be found in pedigrees. A faster more efficient method of predicting breeding ability or "prepotency" of racing pigeons can be gained by understanding their genetic composition through pedigrees. 

PREPOTENCY can be defined as the genetic ability of pigeons to consistently and frequently breed superior racing pigeons that regularly compete at the top of the race sheet.

In a pedigree, prepotency is often a function of a similar or heterogeneous genetic composition. That is, if there are related pigeons or the same pigeon that appears in a pedigree more than once, chances are that those pigeons will be good breeders because of their genetic prepotency. When I look at pedigrees, I immediately look for several components.

First, I scan the pedigrees for pigeons that I may have heard of or am familiar with. My knowledge base may provide insight into a pigeon’s prepotency if I am somewhat familiar with outstanding pigeons in a pedigree.

Second, I look for and evaluate the outstanding racers or breeders in the pedigree.

• A son or daughter of an ace pigeon is usually much more valuable than a grandson or granddaughter or great grandson or great granddaughter. 

• The offspring of two outstanding racers coupled together is usually better than offspring from an ace pigeon coupled with an unraced pigeon - unless it is a sibling of an ace pigeon or a son or daughter of an ace pigeon. 

• Offspring of a brother or sister of an ace pigeon is often better than a grandchild of an ace pigeon.

Third, I evaluate the genetic composition by calculating the number of related pigeons in the pedigree. We often use the terms "line-breeding" or in-breeding" to describe the genetic make-up of pedigrees. For instance, line-breeding is usually coupling first cousins, uncle-nieces, and aunt-uncles. In the case of first cousins, at least two of a pigeon’s grandparents are the same pigeon. In the case of uncle-nieces, the father is a brother to one of his mate’s parents. The parents of the father are also one of the two sets of grandparents of the mate.

This related or similar genetic composition can be a fairly accurate measurement of a pigeon’s prepotency. In my experience, prepotent pigeons tend to have a homogenous or similar genetic make-up. However, I have also found that highly in-bred pigeons tend to lose a degree of their hybrid vigor which negatively affects their racing performance. 


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kalapati
San Diego


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

One thing I would add is that I look for pigeons with race records and those that have bred winners. The pedigrees better be full of these kind of birds. Bred for stock birds should not out weigh race or breeding records. If they are bred for stock I better see a child winning.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Dr Lamberton Sets a rigid program for his Birds And is rather Keen On his aspects.A prepotent Bird though to me Is a hard find even with the best breeders. And worth its weight in gold in any breed of pigeon. But he does very well with his birds And has a partner loft in belgiam. I do believe he removes birds that many would keep But he does very well with what he keeps. Must being doing something right in the breeding loft.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Nice tips. Many of those seems obvious isn't it from breeding perspective? You want as close gene as from the winning pigeon.

I actually go further than this and use pedigree analysis you use to study whether certain traits are passed by certain individuals.
You can start here:http://www.ndsu.edu/pubweb/~mcclean/plsc431/mendel/mendel9.htm
You can continue here:http://www.hhmi.org/biointeractive/vlabs/cardiology/content/dtg/pedigree/pedigree.html

Other site:http://faculty.clintoncc.suny.edu/f...101 Laboratory/Pedigree Analysis/PEDIGREE.HTM

What I do is to look whether certain factor exist in a good pigeon and see if that pigeon can pass it. Enjoy!


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*The standard joke in BELGIUM is "Today I sold a pedigree to an AMERICAN ...and I threw in a bird for free"  * GEORGE


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## swaze (Mar 3, 2010)

george simon said:


> *The standard joke in BELGIUM is "Today I sold a pedigree to an AMERICAN ...and I threw in a bird for free"  * GEORGE


 lol it does seem to be an American thing.

Only in America could a bird with only the great grandparents are proven be worth something.

you take a pedigree and fill it up with say De Hekkenklak 3 or 4 times in the back of the pedigree as great-grandfather with neither the parents or grandparents being proven breeders and american buyers will eat it up because the bird is inbred and "pure hekkenklak"

the reality is the bird is probably a pure piece of trash but people care more about the bloodline and how "pure" it is than they do performance

it's like who cares what the brothers and sisters have won or produced but how pure is the bloodline......illogical but so many fall into that trap


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## blue bar 20 (Nov 12, 2009)

*Pedigrees*

I Do Not Put Too Much Faith In Paper Work .seems Like Paper Work Is Worth Not Much More Than The Paper It Is Written On. When It Comes To Race Day Paper Can't Fly.so You All Put Your Faith In Paper Trails And I'll Stick With The Birds That Are Proven Winners.that Don't Need Paper To Win.all Paper Does Is Bring In Good Money For Average Birds .if You Fall For The Sales Pitch. I Have Raced Paper Birds Along With Birds That Have No Papers And The Birds With No Papers Did Just As Good And Usually Better Than The Papered Birds.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

kalapati said:


> just want to share here.
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> ...


Thank you for sharing.

I often get a little bit frustrated when I hear people talking down the value of breeding records on a well bred pigeon. I suspect that the reason why people dismiss the value of a solid family tree, is because they lack an understanding of how heredity plays a role in the breeding of great pigeons. How else can you explain why people dismiss the pedigree as a tool ? How many great pigeon masters do you think dismissed the ancestry of their pigeons, thinking it played no role ?

A carefully recorded breeding record of the family tree of Champions, can tell a story all by itself. Great breeders of race horses know this, breeders of great show dogs know this. Why do pigeon fanciers then act silly and insist that the breeding records and family tree bears no witness to the genetic makeup of the bird in the hand ?

If the pedigree is of so little value, or no value at all, then why do fanciers even bother to maintain any breeding records at all ? And I disagree completely with this idea that only Americans are interested in a pigeon's family tree. To suggest that the great masters of Europe have no clue as to whom produced what, as they don't "believe in pedigrees" all seems pretty crazy to me.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Remember a pedigree is a breeding record. And has been kept By most people who care enough to know where there youngbird came from. Anybody who keeps no record will never make it in raising anything good As you will not remember how you got it. PUT any to winners together and you still get poor birds. Stock birds /breeders Are there for a reason. Your loft records is your pedigree on your birds. BUT yes some use the pedigree to make money. But who buys the bird has hope and often that hope fails If it is bought from high volume dealers. Any loft will only raise 1 best a year, And hopefully 5 birds that may be of some help. They rest well there pigeons that willl not help your loft But maube 10 to 15 may help someone else. The others are give away birds to non race people Or Pumpers So a pedigree does mean something as long as its used as a tool like a road map to get where you need to be.


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Thank you for sharing.
> 
> I often get a little bit frustrated when I hear people talking down the value of breeding records on a well bred pigeon. I suspect that the reason why people dismiss the value of a solid family tree, is because they lack an understanding of how heredity plays a role in the breeding of great pigeons. How else can you explain why people dismiss the pedigree as a tool ? How many great pigeon masters do you think dismissed the ancestry of their pigeons, thinking it played no role ?
> 
> ...


I'm still a newb and really have no say at all, but I do know horses, and bloodlines and pedigrees matter, honestly type in a few big time horses in here http://www.pedigreequery.com/ I'm sure you'll find a good amount of them related, either thats good bloodlines at work, or an extremely good sire or dam that produced many exceptional offspring.

Also here is War Admirals pedigree:
http://www.pedigreequery.com/war+admiral
Seabiscuits: 
http://www.pedigreequery.com/seabiscuit

Thats a champion bloodline of a family, I always read try to get siblings of a champion, or half-siblings or uncles or aunts or something like that, I feel like everything I have read that has consisted of choosing breeders, is made correct by War Admiral and Seabiscuit.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

First To Hatch said:


> I'm still a newb and really have no say at all, but I do know horses, and bloodlines and pedigrees matter, honestly type in a few big time horses in here http://www.pedigreequery.com/ I'm sure you'll find a good amount of them related, either thats good bloodlines at work, or an extremely good sire or dam that produced many exceptional offspring.
> 
> Also here is War Admirals pedigree:
> http://www.pedigreequery.com/war+admiral
> ...


Exactly !! You articulated my view better then if I had said it myself. 

In my mind, you need to know a point in which you want to go....and so you have a map and a plan. The pedigree to me is simply a bit of a road map, it does not tell you if the bird in your hand will become a racing and breeding champion. But, when I see the big picture within a family tree, there are Championship Lines which will produce Champions out of turn. Sometimes you are dealing with a real long shot, that may not look like the typical previous winners. May be something just different about him or her. After the fact, looking back, we see....yeah...that makes sense.


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## swaze (Mar 3, 2010)

I don't think anybody is saying pedigrees don't matter at all and if you had a good bird you'd be pretty foolish not to want to know the background and ancestors of the bird.

however what guys like Lamberton and others are saying is that you want birds directly related to the champions....not just grandchildren or great grandchildren.

*in other words you want direct children of the champion breeders. you want brothers and sisters of the champion racers and breeders. you want the parents and brothers and sisters of the bird you are buying to be proven, whether it be as racers or breeders but ideally both.*

all too often though people could care less whether the parents or brothers and sisters of the bird in question have done anything. all many buyers care about is seeing a famous bird somewhere in the pedigree or how "pure" the pedigree is and often this means the only proven birds in the pedigree are grandparents and beyond.

when you buy an unproven bird for sale you have no idea if the bird is any good or not and only racing its children will tell you that. however if the parents and brothers and sisters of the bird you bought are well proven there is a pretty good chance the bird you got will be a good bird since you know for sure the parents and brothers and sisters are good. doesn't mean for sure the bird you have is good but the odds are at least better and in your favor

likewise when the parents or worse even parents and grandparents of the bird you are buying are all unproven the odds are highly against you. if you don't even know if the parents and brothers and sisters are any good then its a real long shot that the bird in question is any good. basically all you have is a pedigree and a hope and a prayer.

if i was buying a bird i will only care about the grandparents or great grandparents if i know the parents are good. that is where the pedigree can tell you something....both parents bred winners and/or were super racers and their parents (the grandparents) will show you why and so on. unless the parents are good it just doesn't matter what birds are in the pedigree past that


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

First To Hatch said:


> I'm still a newb and really have no say at all, but I do know horses, and bloodlines and pedigrees matter, honestly type in a few big time horses in here http://www.pedigreequery.com/ I'm sure you'll find a good amount of them related, either thats good bloodlines at work, or an extremely good sire or dam that produced many exceptional offspring.
> 
> Also here is War Admirals pedigree:
> http://www.pedigreequery.com/war+admiral
> ...


Since you are into horses what do you think of this article:http://www.articles.racing-pigeon-post.org/Thoroughbred.html


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

RodSD said:


> Since you are into horses what do you think of this article:http://www.articles.racing-pigeon-post.org/Thoroughbred.html


Ahhh yes I have read that before, interesting tidbit of information it is.


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