# Introducing "Whopping Walter" without anyone getting hurt!



## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Well the babies are ready to come out of the nesting box and I've been letting Walter out of his cage (supervised) for exercise. Poor Walter - he's such a sweet gentle giant! But I'm afraid someone is going to get hurt. Here's whats happening --- (and just for info Walter is 3 times bigger - almost 800 grams)
A little white hen has been flirting with Walter and he has taken a liking to her also. When I let him out, he minds his own business and follows her around - doing his little (big) strut and dance for her. He has picked a favorite box (next to the box with the babies), _that no one has occupied_. Problem - as soon as he goes into the box, one of my oldest cock's and his mate (no babies and this is not their box) DIVE BOMB into the box trying to get Walter out. The old cock is very persistent (hen not so much, but keeps trying). Walter grabs him with his beak then leans his (huge) body into him and throws him out! The old guy dives right back in  this goes on repeatedly, 10,11,15,20 times, he won't give up, I have to eventually break it up.
When Walter throws him out, he no sooner hits the floor then dives right back in. Sometimes both (cock and hen) will dive in at the same time and it's 2 on 1, Walter just throws them BOTH out. What's worrying me is that the old cock is diving in so fast, he's trying to get to the back of the box and push Walter out. Walter is too big for him and he uses his body weight to pin him down and push him out. I'm afraid Walter will pin him in the back of the box and hurt him. 
*Will this old cock realize that he is no match for Walter and give up?* How far do I let this go? (I'm in the loft supervising this the whole time, and they are totally oblivious to me) I don't want to have to keep someone caged, but I don't want anyone getting hurt either. I feel bad for Walter because he's NOT starting it - the old cock is. None of the other birds get involved with it, they just move out of the way and watch!
Any suggestions on how to resolve this so they can live in harmony would be appreciated!


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

mine have fought and there has not been anyone damaged from it...not to say it can never happen... your cock and hen duo have picked both nest boxes as their own...mine tried doing this too, untill I put a half front on the boxes...now they can not just jump from one to the other on the other side, basically I put strips of wood down the length of the nest boxes and leaving the openings at opposite sides of each other. it is hard to expaine..lol.. but imagine looking at your open boxes, then put slats down to cover half the box and leaving a "door" or open part where they can get into the box...well these open door areas are opposite of the next box beside it, that way they have some privacy and can not jump over to the next box, they would have to fly down and out to the floor then go into another box, by that time Walter would know he is comming and not even let him in at all and it would be over faster.

oh and maybe taking the pair out for a week or two may calm him down...but then Walter may make both his by that time too, so I would think about doing the slats or else you will problably have to deal with it forever...I had to do something and it has worked well.


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## doveone52 (Aug 3, 2009)

Gosh, that's quite a dilemma. You need someone with more experince than me but just wanted to comment that Walter sounds like a wonderful bird but the OB gets kudos for persistance. Sounds like the senior might need some cage time with his mate.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I had the same problem with 2 of my birds. Neither one would let the other alone in their box, and of course, they chose boxes right next to each other. So, as Spiritwings did, I put a board on the front of each box to block maybe a third of the opening. Now it was harder to just jump in. Also, I can close the nest box if I have to, so I would lock them up for the day while I went to work. One day, I'd lock one of them up til I got home and could supervise. Then the next day, I'd lock up the other one til I got home. When one would try to go into the others box, I'd just grab him, and put him in his own box. This went on for maybe two weeks. Now they live in harmony side by side. The older bird is going to have to except that box as belonging to Walter. In time he will, but you don't want him to drive Walter from the box, as he will do this with anyone who tries to take it over. It willl work given time.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

The thing is, it's not even the old cock's box! He only wants it when Walter goes in.
I'm just afraid if I block half the opening, Walter will really be able to pin the old guy down inside. I don't mind letting them hash it out, but I don't want to make it worse by blocking an escape route so that someone gets hurt- if you know what I mean 
Walter isn't mean, he just has his enormous size to his advantage


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Here is a pic of the board I put up on each box. Then, for a while, I even had to put up a board between to separate them so that they wouldn't see each other from their perspective doorways. That has since been removed, and they are fine as neighbors.










Here is the extra board I added to block their view of each other for a few months.

Here is a pic of the board I put up on each box. Then, for a while, I even had to put up a board between to separate them so that they wouldn't see each other from their perspective doorways. That has since been removed, and they are fine as neighbors.


Here is the extra board I added to block their view of each other for a few months.









The other box didn't belong to Screech or Mica either. They just didn't want the other one to have a box. They're like that sometimes. Mica even went into Screechs box before I added the boards, and pulled Stormy, Screechs mate out, and threw her to the floor. That was the last straw with me. It was then that I put up the boards, and started separating them each day by taking turns locking them up.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Msfreebird said:


> The thing is, it's not even the old cock's box! He only wants it when Walter goes in.
> I'm just afraid if I block half the opening, Walter will really be able to pin the old guy down inside. I don't mind letting them hash it out, but I don't want to make it worse by blocking an escape route so that someone gets hurt- if you know what I mean
> Walter isn't mean, he just has his enormous size to his advantage


Try telling the old cock it is not his!!!lol... he sure thinks it is, that is why he is protecting it, many will claim the box nest to them if it is open, if you have a block the old guy will not even have a chance to get into it with walters big bod in the way, walter would sit and guard it and it will all be worked out after the old guy gets tired and there is a winner...have to have a winner....I just worry that Walter might want the old guys box too oneday if it is easy to hop over and get into...and they will fight longer and back and forth and on and on... nest fronts are the way to go, but if you can't get those the half front works good too.


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

oh poor walter will the drama never end for this guy, who knows what he went thru before he came to lorraine, then me, then waynette


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

I'll try both you and Jay3's suggestions.
But, *the old guy doesn't have A BOX at all* - he just doesn't want Walter to have a box! And he is so quick, he is darting under and between Walter's legs to get into it. (have you ever seen a Wood Duck dart into that little tiny hole in a wood duck box? - that's what it looks like) 
But I'll try it


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

altgirl35 said:


> oh poor walter will the drama never end for this guy, who knows what he went thru before he came to lorraine, then me, then waynette


LOL, hey hey, it's not me! I'll give the big guy whatever he wants. It's the old FART that's giving him a hard time!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Waynette, you said the old guy doesn't have a box. What if you try putting him in one and locking him in for a while? Maybe he will come to think of it as his. Is he not mated to anyone? Maybe you need more boxes. When Sammy first arrived, they wouldn't let him have a box, and there were plenty to choose from. It's just that he was the new guy on the block. So he and Gully settled in this little 12X12 box across the room. It wasn't intended to be a nest box. I sometimes put things in it. They looked so squished in there, so I took it out and built a standing three box structure for across the room. They still live there happily, in the top box. Of course, I think he now thinks of the whole three boxes as his. LOL. The other birds didn't bother them in it, so it worked. Now he is part of the group and they don't bother him anymore. It's tough being the new guy. With rescues, I'm always running into something like this.You may need to add more boxes in different places. I think it works out better that way sometimes. This way, they aren't all next to each other. Samson and Delilah have a box that hangs over Sammy's "condo". It started as a shelf for them, and eventually became a box as I kept adding to it. My loft is hard though, as there are so many large windows, that I run out of places to add a box. It's fun. Always changing in there.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Here's Sammy's "condo", and Samsons and Delilah's box that hangs over it. Not perfect building skills, but it works.










The one closed in was Rags, a rescue, trying to get him used to the box.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

altgirl35 said:


> oh poor walter will the drama never end for this guy, who knows what he went thru before he came to lorraine, then me, then waynette


This is normal. Pecking order you know! They'll solve it and eventually he will be part of the flock. At least he has size on his side. I'm surprised that OB even challenges him. When I bring in a bird a lot larger, mine normally back off!


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Msfreebird said:


> I'll try both you and Jay3's suggestions.
> But, *the old guy doesn't have A BOX at all* - he just doesn't want Walter to have a box! And he is so quick, he is darting under and between Walter's legs to get into it. (have you ever seen a Wood Duck dart into that little tiny hole in a wood duck box? - that's what it looks like)
> But I'll try it


oh you did say.. -" He has picked a favorite box (next to the box with the babies), that no one has occupied.".... I thought it was the parents of the babies fighting Walter...ok...ummm the old cock must just have his eye on it, they usually all pick a box, esp when paired..... if it was not his before now he thinks it is and does not want Walter on his turf. either way you will get less fighting with the half fronts, but yes it is normal and will work itself out..it is what pigeons do.....keep us posted... I guess you saw how mine are in the pic of the fans...it has helped tremendously.....


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

OK, I'll try all this AND make some additional boxes 
Ya, the OB is not the father of the babies. He has a mate and they just kinda travel around the loft together.
LOL, I'm surprised too that the OB is taking on Walter. He puts his head right down and charges - it's like running into a brick wall


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Msfreebird said:


> OK, I'll try all this AND make some additional boxes
> Ya, the OB is not the father of the babies. He has a mate and they just kinda travel around the loft together.
> LOL, I'm surprised too that the OB is taking on Walter. He puts his head right down and charges - it's like running into a brick wall


...lol... oh how they can make more work for us! you know if your not breeding you can let it work itself out,...but if there is going to be babies in the boxes...then yea, I would get out the nails and hammer, or those cubbie square things like jay uses, his was a good example too, I like he can lock someone in if he wants too, I can't do that with mine, unless I get hubby to make me something which would not go over well as he thought he was done after the second loft....


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Being able to lock them in comes in handy sometime. Especially when you take in rescues, and off and on are bringing a new bird into the loft. If I had different sections I could separate them when I needed to, but I only have the one section. And Spiritwings, I bet you COULD figure out a way to close them off if you wanted to. I have confidence in you. It's easier than you think. You might have fun trying different things. If I can do it, anyone can.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

spirit wings said:


> ...lol... oh how they can make more work for us! you know if your not breeding you can let it work itself out,...but if there is going to be babies in the boxes...then yea, I would get out the nails and hammer, or those cubbie square things like jay uses, his was a good example too, I like he can lock someone in if he wants too, I can't do that with mine, unless I get hubby to make me something which would not go over well as he thought he was done after the second loft....


No more babies!  The last 2 are jumping in and out of the nest box so they'll be out in the next couple days. I just want them out of the line of fire when I let Walter out!
When I first got Walter, these are the 2 babies that were 1 week old and Walter jumped into the box and kicked Dad out, then sat with the babies. He never attempted to hurt them.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Very strange bird. LOL.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Jay3 said:


> Very strange bird. LOL.


I can't wait to get pictures of him with his little hen friend - wait til you see the size difference


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Jay3 said:


> Being able to lock them in comes in handy sometime. Especially when you take in rescues, and off and on are bringing a new bird into the loft. If I had different sections I could separate them when I needed to, but I only have the one section. And Spiritwings, I bet you COULD figure out a way to close them off if you wanted to. I have confidence in you. It's easier than you think. You might have fun trying different things. If I can do it, anyone can.


your right, Im gonna work on that... I think the cubbie squares would work, just not sure how to get them to stay in place, donot want to use any small nails to hang them on, maybe I can clip them in place with something?...what do you use to keep them up? ...... oops just looked at your pic again, looks like wooden turn deals....what ever they are called....lol...I know they have a name!...just can't think of it...lol...


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

spirit wings said:


> your right, Im gonna work on that... I think the cubbie squares would work, just not sure how to get them to stay in place, donot want to use any small nails to hang them on, maybe I can clip them in place with something?...what do you use to keep them up? ...... oops just looked at your pic again, looks like wooden turn deals....what ever they are called....lol...I know they have a name!...just can't think of it...lol...


Wooden turn deals? LOL. LOL. Actually, they hang on small cup hooks. The "wooden turn deal" hold them secure at the top and bottom. The nest boxes on the other side of the room, I only hang on small cup hooks. They don't need the "wooden turn deals, as they drop behind the bottom board, which hold them in place. I'll post a pic of those also.

Ya know, you can buy turn buttons. They are metal and small. They would hold them in place.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

When I need boxes in a hurry I use the Styrofoam boxes that we get vaccines shipped in at work. I cut the lid in half and duct tape it back on, then stack them on top of each other. (I do have to secure them because their light) They work great! - insulated and disposable


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Cute fans, Waynette! That's a great idea, reusing the shipping boxes.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

These are the 3 that I got at the pigeon show in Sanford, Maine.(and met Pigeonmama!) All 3 for $10.00!!!
The dun check is definitely a hen. And all 3 are getting along beautifully with my others.


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Wynette.............The fantails are beautiful. 

Just a word of caution for you. The styrofoam boxes might work great, but I would be very, very careful. Pigeons like to peck and styrofoam easily is broken off. If a bird should injest a piece, it would make the bird very ill......possibly even cause death. Styrofoam is formaldehyde/polystyrene based and is toxic for all living creatures.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

That's true. I never thought about if they pecked at them.


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

i keep checking for pics of walter and his darling dear, where are they waynette???
i had a thought, now remember this is from a person who doesn't have a loft just trying to problem solve in my head.
what about moving walter over one and closing up that nest box completely so possessive boy will relax.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I've had to do that myself. On occasion I have one that I just know will not get along with a neighbor right next door, So I simply close off that box. I have enough others. The OB may not object to this particular box being used. He may just be giving Walter a hassle because he is new. Some of them will do that, no matter which box they try to take. Only way to find out would be to close off the box as Jodie has suggested, and see if the older bird hassles Walter over another box. It might be interesting to find out. If it is the particular box, that would take care of it.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

lwerden said:


> Wynette.............The fantails are beautiful.
> 
> Just a word of caution for you. The styrofoam boxes might work great, but I would be very, very careful. Pigeons like to peck and styrofoam easily is broken off. If a bird should injest a piece, it would make the bird very ill......possibly even cause death. Styrofoam is formaldehyde/polystyrene based and is toxic for all living creatures.


Thanks, I wondered about that when I started using them. But I've been using them for years and they don't peck at them. At least they haven't yet, so I continue to watch.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Jay3 said:


> I've had to do that myself. On occasion I have one that I just know will not get along with a neighbor right next door, So I simply close off that box. I have enough others. The OB may not object to this particular box being used. He may just be giving Walter a hassle because he is new. Some of them will do that, no matter which box they try to take. Only way to find out would be to close off the box as Jodie has suggested, and see if the older bird hassles Walter over another box. It might be interesting to find out. If it is the particular box, that would take care of it.


Since the last altercation, OB and his hen have been sitting in the box. So they have claimed that box and apparently Walter just likes that location. The babies are in the box to the left of it (should be out any day), and their is another pair sitting on fake eggs to the right of it. There are 8 empty boxes around those 3. Why doesn't he just use one of those


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

altgirl35 said:


> i keep checking for pics of walter and his darling dear, where are they waynette???
> i had a thought, now remember this is from a person who doesn't have a loft just trying to problem solve in my head.
> what about moving walter over one and closing up that nest box completely so possessive boy will relax.


I'll get some pictures today


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Pigeons can be very stubborn. Sometimes, just because someone else wants it, it starts looking good to them. LOL. Try putting Walter in another box, and locking him in. Just for a while. Maybe he will starts seeing it as his box. Or maybe just lock him in at night and let him out in the morning. Poor Walter. Never easy is it?


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Jay3 said:


> Pigeons can be very stubborn. Sometimes, just because someone else wants it, it starts looking good to them. LOL. Try putting Walter in another box, and locking him in. Just for a while. Maybe he will starts seeing it as his box. Or maybe just lock him in at night and let him out in the morning. Poor Walter. *Never easy is it?*


LOL, is anything? LOL kinda like a bunch of spoiled kids, you'd think they'd be happy just having a roof over their heads 
Hmmm we'll get it worked out


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Good luck. Let us know how you work it out. Should be interesting! No, it's never boring with pigeons. LOL.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

I put Walter in another box - the top row was empty. A different cock went after him trying to get him out of that box. I think your right Jay3, "New guy"


















OB is in box underneath Walter, and babies are left of that box









The little blue cock to his right is the one after him now










I'll keep working at it!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I would break up the fights and remove the offender. Not Walter. And then I add more nest boxes. I have more than I need for the birds I have, but they like choices. I feel bad for Walter. He's big, but clearly not aggressive, or nobody would be messing with him. Big with attitude..............................they leave alone. If they don't work it out, which they will, send him to me. Don loves him! LOL.


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

i think they just tellin him he too fat to fit on those boxes, lol.
if i ever get another one jay i call you


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

He IS to big for those boxes 
Tomorrow I'm going to make some more LARGE boxes - I have noticed that whenever I remodel or add something new everybody re evaluates their positions and shifts around, so maybe a bunch of new BIG boxes will keep their minds occupied.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Jay3 said:


> I would break up the fights and remove the offender. Not Walter. And then I add more nest boxes. I have more than I need for the birds I have, but they like choices. I feel bad for Walter. He's big, but clearly not aggressive, or nobody would be messing with him. Big with attitude..............................they leave alone. If they don't work it out, which they will, send him to me. Don loves him! LOL.


LOL, He's a BIG Fat Sweetheart! And very hard to hold - you can't hold him with 2 hands, you have to get him in the crook of your arm and up against your body. He's not fast but he's VERY strong.
I feel bad for him too, but I'll get it worked out --- those little bullies


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

i like the bird right above walter in that last pic, she looks like she's singing to the camera


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

altgirl35 said:


> i think they just tellin him he too fat to fit on those boxes, lol.
> if i ever get another one jay i call you


Sure thing!


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

altgirl35 said:


> i like the bird right above walter in that last pic, she looks like she's singing to the camera


LOL, ya she does. She must be the cheerleader!
Notice how everybody has to get close and watch the arguing?


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## Mindy (Apr 2, 2009)

Loved the pictures, your right, I did notice how everyone is watching the fight. I have a king that I named, King ******. He is going through the samething. But mine is starting the fights, by going in the others pen and staying in there until the woman comes home. But instead of the woman, the husbands show up and there is a fight. When there was just him and another couple he was fine, but since I got 4 more from Reti, he wants to be the boss of the women. He wants the girls, and thats all he has on his mind. So when I'm not home, I have to put him in a cage because I don't want to come home to a blood bath. He is big. Your right, you need two hands to catch them and your arms to hold them. I got my King by accident, and if anyone has a chance to adopt a King, they are named King for a reason. This spring I will be looking for a couple of mates for my two lone boys. They need love to. But I have to wait until they move outside, I can't take anymore inside. Its a lot of work inside. 

Waynette really enjoyed the pics. Which one is walter. Just kidding. I think anyone would be able to tell which one walter is. min


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## jandkds (Aug 25, 2009)

What a big handsome bird! He looks like he is the size of a chicken but obviously is not phased by the others wanting to evict him from that box! lol Poor guy!


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

*Walter's Woman!*

Went out at 7 this morning to clean and rearrange, didn't have any extra wood, so I put a couple of old shelving units in for the time being (just to confuse everybody)
Success - I think!
This is Walter's little "friend" peeking at him-










Reeling her in -










She has to play a little "hard to get"










And we have a Winner!!!!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Boy! Didn't take him long to find a sweetheart. She must like the strong silent type. Cute pair. Thanks for sharing Waynette.


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

let me know if i need to splint her legs, lol


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## Mindy (Apr 2, 2009)

I was laughing out loud on the last three post. I can't believe you got a picture of him doing the act. You must be quick with the camera. Glad you had success, loved the pictures. min


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Jay3 said:


> Boy! Didn't take him long to find a sweetheart. She must like the strong silent type. Cute pair. Thanks for sharing Waynette.


Actually she's had her eye on him ever since he came, she camped out on the floor next to his cage.
There were 2 other hens that were trying to get his attention, but he wasn't interested - I think it was love at first site with these 2


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

altgirl35 said:


> let me know if i need to splint her legs, lol


LOL, really! 
She's a tough little hen, he picked the bottom shelf in the corner and went in, she came in gave him a couple little "running charges" and pecked him all over the head and neck. He just bowed down and let her do whatever she wanted. Guess you know, she was laying down the law, LOL
Went out to check on them about 10 last night, they were cuddled up next to each other,


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Mindy said:


> I was laughing out loud on the last three post. I can't believe you got a picture of him doing the act. *You must be quick with the* *camera*. Glad you had success, loved the pictures. min


LOL, not really. It wasn't difficult, they've been glued together since I let him out.


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

awww, so happy walter has found love


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

WONDERFUL NEWS, Waynette!! 

We wish the two lovebirds all the BEST!! They certainly make a lovely couple!

Are you going to use "dummy" eggs??

Love and Hugs
Shi/Squeaks/Dom/Gimie/Woe


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

mr squeaks said:


> WONDERFUL NEWS, Waynette!!
> 
> We wish the two lovebirds all the BEST!! They certainly make a lovely couple!
> 
> ...


Dummy eggs - Absolutely!
Their so cute together - she's sooo tiny next to him, and he follows her like a little puppy 
Adding those 2 extra shelving units put a stop to the arguing, and the boxes were too small for Walter anyway! I just can't get over his size!


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

oh cool! all is worked out! it is so nice to see that big guy have a nice life


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

peace at last!! so happy for walter and you


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

spirit wings said:


> oh cool! all is worked out! it is so nice to see that big guy have a nice life


He seems VERY happy


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Great idea putting in the extra shelves and so glad this pair has settled so quickly!


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## jandkds (Aug 25, 2009)

They are beautiful birds! What a handsome couple they make! Ahh love...


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