# new kid on the block



## Aias

so here is the new kid on the block, no name yet as sabina is out of town until saturday:










more pics here if you want: http://www.flickr.com/photos/100fires/tags/simon/


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## mr squeaks

And what is the story behind this one, Aias??

Looks like there may be an issue with those missing feathers???

A young 'un for sure!

Wishing you ALL Love, Hugs and Scritches!

Looking forward to updates...

Shi


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## Pidgey

Aias,

There was a bird on here once, posted about by a member named "Calvin". It that that kind of feather loss and it died. For me, there are always warning bells going off when they look like that. If it were me, I'd hit the bird with an anti-canker and Baytril for about 10 days and keep a close watch.

Pidgey


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## Maggie-NC

Aias, for me it is love at first sight. I sure love them at that age. I am not sure what causes the feathers to to grow in certain areas of the head when they are babies but I think I would do as Pidgey recommends and go for a treatment of Baytril and anti-canker. His chest looks a little oily so maybe he was raised in a restaurant vent and got so greasy that the feathers have not grown there or they did and for some reason came out.

He is a sweetheart for sure.


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## sabina

Very cute! Aias, we have generic baytril and we have spartrix for canker. Maybe you can check a weight and we can figure out the dosages? Or do you have an appointment set up for AG?
How's the feeding going?


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## Reti

Love at first sight here too. 
I have a youngster here now recovering from PMV, I so enjoy them at this age. They are sweet and curious and just so lovable.

Reti


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## MellissaG

Very interesting pic, 

And comments as well. Baby (my neighbor baby pigeon) looks identical to that, and actually hasnt even been growing the past week or two...parents stopped coming around to feed her after she and her sibling who died last week were kicked out of the nest. 

Now I have some ideas..cankers?
Where do I get the medications for these possibilities? Is it safe to treat even if they might not have the problem? And how much $ do they run usually?


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## Aias

well mr. squeaks i found this baby in the meat packing district. s/he weighs 180 grams. i am really tired and need a nap will post more later.


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## Aias

ok just drunk my espresso, i am awake now  .
so what dose of baytril and spartrix would a 180 gram bird take?


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## pdpbison

Aias said:


> so here is the new kid on the block, no name yet as sabina is out of town until saturday:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> more pics here if you want: http://www.flickr.com/photos/100fires/tags/newkid/




Hi Aias, 



So cute and attentive!


But, yes, I also feel there may be something amis there which is effecting the Feathers around the Throat and Neck area.

Canker sometimes will do this...so, checl their Throat well, and see if you see any hints of chaulky 'yellow' in their urates ( which should be 'white') or in any liquids attending their poops...


Have fun..! They are such delights at this age, well...at any age, but this age is it's own version of how cute they are...


Phil
Las Vegas


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## TAWhatley

Aias said:


> ok just drunk my espresso, i am awake now  .
> so what dose of baytril and spartrix would a 180 gram bird take?


1/2 of a Spartrix and 15 mg/kg on the Baytril. I don't know what strength Baytril you have so can't give you the dose other than 15 mg/kg.

Terry


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## Aias

ok so the spartrix is a 10mg tablet. i dont see any baytril here though. we have ivermecting, appertex, and enroxil.



TAWhatley said:


> 1/2 of a Spartrix and 15 mg/kg on the Baytril. I don't know what strength Baytril you have so can't give you the dose other than 15 mg/kg.
> 
> Terry


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## feralpigeon

Aias, feel around and see if you can feel "hot spots" or abnormal temperature 
ranges in general around the body or crop region. Yes to 1/2 a tablet of Spartrix and generic Baytril--just got mine in the mail and am very pleased but again, we need to know the percentage that you purchased, I have Enrofloxan 10%. I would also hood this one and spray then pull the hood, spray on my finger and apply around the head area this way.

fp


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## sabina

Aias--enroxil is the same as baytril, and we have tablets. How many mg are they? (am still in Minneapolis, will meet the cute baby tomorrow!)


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## Aias

fp, no hotspots that i could find.
this baby is very hard to feed because it gets so excited! because of that i havent been able to look into its throat to check for canker. this morning as soon as i took the cover of the cage it started squeaking like crazy demanding food. i am sure it felt like the longest five minutes ever for the both of us . the baby got 5mg of spartrix last night, and is getting a garlic capsule a day for five days. i will wait for sabina to administer the baytril. 

i am starting to feel overwhelmed here with the 4 cats and 2 pigeons  .


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## Pidgey

Aias, you've got Enroxil tablets? What's it say on the bottle?

Birds can experience "alopecia" (localized balding, feathers or hair) from an underlying inflammation or an inflammatory process. It's so much easier to diagnose (that something's wrong) when you can see a visible lump but that's not the case with this little guy as is plain in the picture. There used to be linked pictures (high quality) in the thread about Calvin's bird but they didn't work the last time I checked. They can also "wear" bald places like Phil's bird, Crow-Baby, did due to the fact that he had to be manipulated some for virtually every feeding but that shouldn't be the case here.

Pidgey


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## Aias

we have enroflaxyn but the label was taped up or something, on the same bottle, written by hand it says " #595 enroxil" each tablet is 7.5mg. is enroflaxyn the same as enroxil?



Pidgey said:


> Aias, you've got Enroxil tablets? What's it say on the bottle?
> Pidgey


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## Pidgey

Yeah. Do you know what the bird weighs?

Pidgey


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## Pidgey

For instance, in the old formulary, Baytril (Enrofloxacin and several other names usually starting with "Enro-") was dosed at 15 milligrams per kilogram of bird, orally (but there are other ways involving giving shots) twice daily (written: 15 mg/kg, PO, BID). So, a fairly heavy pigeon (500 grams or 1/2 of a kilogram and this guy ain't) would get about 7.5 milligrams, twice daily. One of those pills in the morning and one in the evening.

This bird probably weighs less than half that but not by a lot. So, the easiest thing would be to give it 1/2 of a pill in the morning and the other 1/2 in the evening to stay with that old formulary listing.

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon

Aias, I know what you mean about getting too excited, they can just barely 
contain themselves when it's feeding time. What you might try is taking a dish
towel and burrito-ing this baby so that you get some relief from h/her 'hamming'
it up w/the wings and shoulders. 

Most of the babies I pick up are sick and that's why they aren't w/the parents in the nest or nesting area....they've sadly been bumped as a 'survival risk' and this is just part of feral life. The bald area may be from mites, but honestly, I think you are doing the right thing by giving the Carnidazole/generic Baytril combo. I usually find some evidence of canker along w/balding especially in that area. Might want to pick yourselves up an Otoscope at a Walgreens or the like as they are good for getting a look a bit further down. Colette, previously Cole had that balding w/unbelievably abnormal tissue appeance in the esophagus yet no visible signs of canker lesions per se, but her poops were unbelievably sour/Canker smelling when I took her in. She also had quite the hot spot towards the base of her crop.

fp


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## Feefo

That baby is adorable. Is the baldness even on both sides? I have noticed that when it is caused by canker it will be uneven, occuring on the outside of the area where the canker lesion has formed. But I would treat for canker anyway.

She reminds me of my poor Chico when she arrived, but I think in her case the bald spots were due to bullying.

Cynthia


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## Aias

pidgey the bird weighs between 160 and 180 grams, hard to tell since we live in the bermuda triangle or something none the scales we have tried stay at zero. even nona's scale which worked perfectly at her home fails to work here.

fp, oh yeah the baby is burrito'd alright but with all that squeaking and nuzzling for food it is still a challenge, without a doubt the most challenging squeaker we have ever had. and the baby is mostly bold on the back as well. i cant get a photo of that until sabina arrives to help me.


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## feralpigeon

Colette is a bit of a challenge as well in that I have to literally pry her 
upper and lower beak open even though she's completely excited about
feeding time....go figure.

fp


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## Pidgey

I suppose I'd be hoping that there was just a deficiency that you'd be effectively treating by way of giving it formula. Frankly, that's probably one of the most effective things we do.

I think I know the exact pill that you've got and it's got a half-pill indentation that makes it easy to split. You could try dividing it into thirds but that one's pretty crumbly (which isn't a bad way to go--to crush and then divide into piles that you can mix into the formula).

Pidgey


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## Aias

maybe this baby is colettes long lost twin because that is exactly the problem i have. pidgey i am giving it formula, next feeding is in the next 10 min. will crush the third and add it to the formula.


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## feralpigeon

Aias said:


> maybe this baby is colettes long lost twin because that is exactly the problem i have. pidgey i am giving it formula, next feeding is in the next 10 min. will crush the third and add it to the formula.


Pretty funny that they do this, Colette is the first one that I've had that is
just so intense about it. Takes quite a bit of maneuvering to pry her determined little closed mandibles apart, lol.

fp


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## Pidgey

And the shorter your fingernails are, the tougher it is to do (prying their beaks open). I try not to trim mine when there's a sickie in the house.

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon

I don't pry that way, in fact, I use the fleshy part of the forefinger gently pushing up on the upper beak. There is usually enough of a length difference
for me to advantage from. Course w/this bird, the wording has changed from
gentle to firm and careful.

fp


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## sabina

boy can this baby squeak!!! h/she never stops! maybe we're not feeding enough? aias calculated based on weight from what the formula package said, and was giving 18 ml three times a day. but a few hours after the third feeding last night, the crop was empty so we gave 24 ml. right now we gave 24 ml, and the baby is still squeaking and shoulder pumping!

we weighed before feeding and it was 180g. 

we're tube feeding, and we need a bigger syringe--the one we have is 12 ml. can we buy them in the store?

should the baytril be with or without food?

we're going to take some more pictures right now...


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## Pidgey

I'm sure you can get one somewhere. I always get them at feed stores but I get the regular syringes up to 60 milliliters if they've got them. Sometimes, it's only the 35's, though. I don't know what you're going to find in the middle of the big city, though. You could always get them from a vet, though. You might even get some kind of syringe from a pharmacy but it might have a larger nozzle on it.

Pidgey


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## sabina

any thoughts about how much to feed how often?


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## Pidgey

You can go with what's in the instructions: 10 to 15% of their weight per meal, three times per day but pigeons will certainly eat more. Seems like they get bigger younger if you feed them more younger.

Pidgey


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## sabina

Still squeaking!!! does that mean he's still hungry???


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## sabina

thanks pidgey. well 15% is 27, so we'll go with that...


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## Pidgey

They're also very social creatures and will usually take all the luvvin' you can give them and then some. He could be squeaking for attention as much as food. If you've got time for a nap, you can cuddle them up to you on a towel with your hand over them and they sometimes settle down. Lin assures me that that's actually "spoiling" but it seems to me to be necessary. 

Of course, he may just be trying to tell you "Happy Mother's Day" and he's getting frustrated that you're not understanding.

Pidgey


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## Charis

sabina said:


> any thoughts about how much to feed how often?


Hi Sabina. You two sure have a way of finding cute babies.
I've raised pigeons that are so busy squealing and moving that it is a real job for just one person to feed them. Those squeals semm to say, FEED ME, FEED ME NOW ! 
This would be a good time to try and get the baby to eat on it's own. During the weaning process I don't feed quite as much, about 15 cc when the crop is empty. Before each hand feeding, I put the bird in my lap with a deep dish of food and move the seeds around to get the squealing, shaking baby's attention. Some are slow to figure it out but most pigeons figure it out very quickly and try or begin to pick up the seeds. It's a lot easier to do than to explain.
Personally, the squealy baby stage is my favorite. They are so sweet and fun.


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## sabina

tee hee! well if i put my hand over him, he just gets more excited, flapping, pecking, trying to put his beak between my fingers to eat. oh wait, he's quiet now! ok we took some pics of the bare spot on his back, will post in a few...oh, the squeaking started again!


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## sabina

Hi Charis. Well I've been tring to keep him occupied the last 10-15 minutes with some seeds and pellets on a towel in my lap. He picks them up and has MAYBE swallowed a few. So it seems he gets it. We want to do the kind of feeding where they stick their beaks in the formula tube, but we have to work on our set up for that...


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## Pidgey

I've seen them learn to eat seeds on their own at an even younger age than that one. Somebody found one where Lin works that was probably only two and a half to three weeks old (primary flights were only about half their final length) that had already learned to peck and eat like a horse. I've no idea what he'd been living on when they found him inside the plant (glass plant) but he was in pretty sad shape when she brought him home. I put him on KayTee just to solve deficiency problems and then had to later re-train him to eat seeds.

Pidgey


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## Charis

sabina said:


> Hi Charis. Well I've been tring to keep him occupied the last 10-15 minutes with some seeds and pellets on a towel in my lap. He picks them up and has MAYBE swallowed a few. So it seems he gets it. We want to do the kind of feeding where they stick their beaks in the formula tube, but we have to work on our set up for that...


Can he drink on his own yet? Once he figures that out the seeds will be a snap. Sounds like he's close. Keep working with him. Have seeds available for him in his cage at all times. Water too.
I wish I could kiss his little face.


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## Maggie-NC

REALLY looking forward to more pictures.

Sabina, I have found there is no set amount for feeding the babies. At Colette's age, I would probably aim for about 25 cc, 3 x day but mostly go by how the crop feels, her weight, the poops and adjust accordingly. Keep small seeds and water in her cage at all times. 

When we had all those babies last spring, I was amazed at how fast they weaned themselves. We had about 15 of varying ages from newborn (not counting the ones from eggs) to about 3 weeks old. Some of those 15 didn't require many hand feedings, they simply started eating on their own. For those that did start eating on their own, we hand fed them for a week or so at night and weighed them everyday to make sure they were gaining weight.


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## feralpigeon

Hi Maggie, actually Colette is one of the babies that I'm taking care of right now...Cole from SF was transformed into Colette on a hunch. I'm tube feeding
her because she was in a bit of a mess and really needed meds, nutrition and
some TLC.... She's quite a ways a way from release if that's possible but only
time will tell on that one. Anyway, now that I've started tubing her she is just
so not into pecking at seeds so we'll have to go thru that drill again, lol. So
just so you know, it was indeed both nutrition and mites! 

Sabina is your baby still clamping mandibles shut and eating all that quantity??

fp


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## sabina

so we named this baby simone (can always change to the spanish pronunciation of simon if we decide it's a boy!). we fed her 30 cc and then she was still squeaking up a storm. so we gave her some finch seeds which we bought since they were small, and she's eating them up! well she eats a few here and there, no real serious eating. but obviously she knows what to do. we did see her drinking water on her own in the cage earlier. so we'll keep the water and seeds in the cage for her, it looks like that'll be no problem at all. 

i just took some more pics maggie, aias will put them up soon!

fp, i didn't understand your question--what do you mean about clamping mandibles?


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## Aias

here is a photo of the bold patch on simon's back: 










and as always more photos here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/100fires/tags/simon/

more photos are coming up soon...
maggie, can you post a photo of colette?


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## sabina

all this confusion about colette! *feralpigeon*, can you post a pic? and maggie, we did take some cutiepie pics as well as bald spot pics but we have to charge the camera up before we can upload them.

so now simone is gobbling up the seeds. i'm thinking we'll do like you were saying charis, and give only 15cc of formula 3 times a day, and let her get used to eating seeds the rest of the time. 

umm it looks like aias and i disagree on the gender here


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## Charis

sabina said:


> all this confusion about colette! *feralpigeon*, can you post a pic? and maggie, we did take some cutiepie pics as well as bald spot pics but we have to charge the camera up before we can upload them.
> 
> so now simone is gobbling up the seeds. i'm thinking we'll do like you were saying charis, and give only 15cc of formula 3 times a day, and let her get used to eating seeds the rest of the time.
> 
> umm it looks like aias and i disagree on the gender here


If she really is gobbling up seeds you might not need to hand feed.


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## sabina

i was thinking cause of the baldness and all, she might need some extra nutrition for a few days...


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## Charis

Makes sense. 
Maybe twice a day?
Do you have any vitamins?
Sure is a cute bird. Got a ways to go before he/she grows into that beak.


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## Aias

just to let the people know that simon has hit 200 grams! and is eating on his own very well.


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## Skyeking

Hi Aias,

That is certainly wonderful news. 

I'm glad to hear Simon graduated top of his class in "Eating seedies" graduate school.  

Thanks for sharing.


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## Maggie-NC

Sorry about the  with the names. 

I definitely won't forget Simon's name now because that was our name for the best little girl pigeon in the world.  You know, the feather loss on her back is really odd. I first thought she may have been pecked pretty badly but it is too uniform for that and no indications of trauma. Maybe it is a malnutrition or canker thing going and you are taking care of that.

If you cut back on hand feeding, I would still hand feed her at night at least for a week or two.....just to be sure.

She is a cutie.


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## Aias

*the promised photos*

here are the promised photos:










and the rest of them here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/100fires/sets/72157600215725353/

maggie, about the name, in spanish we pronounce simon as "seemon" so there is not really a difference in how we say the name only how we spell it. so simone or simon the baby hears it the same, (s/he doesnt know how to read yet....)  

i am glad sabina finally got to spend time with a squeaker that is vociferous, the other squeakers barely squeaked in her presence and didnt squeak for very many days.


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## sabina

Simone is too cute! She's so much fun to hang out with, it's hard to put her back into the cage so I can try to get anything done! But with the 2 new young cats, who love to stalk and pounce, we have to be super vigilant (I brought home another trapped-in-the-ceiling cat from work, don't think I've told yall that yet...or maybe I did? this one's named Bloo).

Ok so question: how many days should we give the Spartrix? She's gotten 3 days so far. Is it 3 or 5?

Oh about the feedings, she's still getting 2 feedings a day. And I just asked Aias, he's giving 24cc each feeding. We'll gradually cut back I guess...


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## Maggie-NC

Pictures were definitely worth waiting for. That is the cutest little one I've seen in a long time. I dearly love them at that age because they're so sweet and funny and will love you to pieces.

Sabina, good for you with your latest kitty rescue. Hope it does well.


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## TAWhatley

sabina said:


> Ok so question: how many days should we give the Spartrix? She's gotten 3 days so far. Is it 3 or 5?


It's usually 3 days with the Spartrix.

Terry


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## xxmoxiexx

OH WOW!! you guys are busy, huh? was this squeaker alone when you found it Aias? i've seen a lot of squeakers lately, i'm wondering how you decide which to take home and which to leave alone?
about the syringe, just call up a few vets, even AG, and tell them the situation, i've found most places will give you one if you ask nicely. if she's eating you dont need it now, but for future reference, thats how i always get mine.
can he/she fly yet?


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## Reti

You should be able to buy syringes at the vets also. 

Now this little one is THE darling.
Will you enter him in the competition?

Reti


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## Aias

*umm, a problem*

so i gave simon/e a bath this afternoon because it was so hot in nyc, and after the bath when simon/e was flapping the wings to get the excess water off i saw this big tear:










and a couple other here as usual: http://www.flickr.com/photos/100fires/sets/72157600215725353/


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## flitsnowzoom

Oh, that looks like it hurts, poor birdie  . Is that new or something that you hadn't been able to see before.

BTW, your flickr link did not work for me.


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## Aias

try again  



flitsnowzoom said:


> Oh, that looks like it hurts, poor birdie  . Is that new or something that you hadn't been able to see before.
> 
> BTW, your flickr link did not work for me.


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## Pidgey

Certainly looks fresh enough to close immediately (I've talked with both Aias and Sabina on the phone over this one already) so I'd get right on to it after a little Betadine. It probably has stayed moist because it closes mostly up when the wing is down.

Poor bird--since you've been feeding it so well, it's done grown out of its skin! That same thing happened to my belly when I met Lin.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey

I'm not sure how well the butterfly dressings are going to work here because it'll probably be folded back on itself when the wing is down. You'll just have to try it and see but I'd still put sutures in. Gotta' tell you though--Simone ain't gonna' like havin' her wings held up like that for as long as it's liable to take.

Pidgey


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## sabina

I'm thinking about just cleaning it now, taping the wings so it stays relatively closed, and then having Aias take her to AG so Karen can do the suturing tomorrow. I'm nervous about suturing on a bird, especially with having to hold the wing up, it's seeming a little scary to me right now...if i HAVE to suture i will, but if it can wait till tomorrow, then that would be better...


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## Pidgey

What I've read is that if the wound has been open for less than 12 hours, you're good to go on just cleaning and closing. When it goes longer, it starts getting more and more questionable until you get to the point where it's "healing by second intention" and so on. Trust me--they heal a LOT quicker if you get them taken care of el pronto.

Didja' trying using the butterflies to get it pulled together in the middle?

Pidgey


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## Reti

Just saw your post, Sabina. It is not too deep or bleeding and it can wait till tomorrow. I always prefer to do those things under some kind of anesthesia or at least after giving a pain medicine.

Pidgey, Betadine will burn like hell on an open wound. I would never do this to myself and I wouldn't do anything to a pigie what I wouldn't do to myself. 
Also Betadine and Peroxide do destroy healthy tissue too, it is not indicated in large wounds. They are ok for a scrape.
I'd rather clean it with saline or soap and water, then apply neosporin or silvadene.

Reti


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## Pidgey

I'd already told (over the phone) Aias to dilute it about 10 to 1 in water.

Pidgey


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## sabina

Hi Reti,
I just made some saline with boiled water and salt, I wouldn't use betadine on an open wound either. 

Pidgey, I haven't tried the steri-strips, I figure if it's going to be sutured anyway tomorrow, then there isn't any point in putting them on--it will just tear the skin when they come off. I know the sooner the better is a general rule with wound closing, but I just don't feel confident about it. It seems like it'd be hard to hold the bird still long enough with the wing up like that, I don't know. Aias does think I should do it now...but I'm just a big wimp!!

Sabina


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## Pidgey

Well, then, you can hold Simone and let Aias do it. In talking with him, he confided that he's done a bit of sewing.

Most folks have a very difficult time putting in that very first stitch on one of their pigeons, especially the little ones. Reti can tell you a really fun story about that.

Pidgey


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## MellissaG




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## sabina

Ok so we just tried to put the poor bird in a cut-off sock with leg holes and well, let's just say THAT did not work!! So now I'm thinking she's just going to sleep and she can't flap that much in her cage anyway. 

We irrigated the wound and put some silvadene on it. There's a black dot in the wound, don't know what it is, some kind of dirt/debris. We tried to irrigate it out, used gauze, a q-tip, a needle (very carefully), still couldn't get it out. So we can't close it up like that anyway...

So now the question is HOW DID THIS HAPPEN? Could it really just have torn spontaneously? Aias was home with the pigeon all day, he keeps a pretty close eye. And our apartment is basically 1 room, so really it's difficult for anything to happen and not know about it. And clearly this was not there before. This bird does plenty of helicoptering, we see that area regularly, and until today, there was definitely no gaping wound!


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## feralpigeon

Hi Sabina, will you be bringing this one in to AG?

fp


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## Aias

i will try to take her there tomorrow (thursday).



feralpigeon said:


> Hi Sabina, will you be bringing this one in to AG?
> 
> fp


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## sabina

So Aias took Simone to AG today. Karen put the bird under anesthesia, cut the edges of the wound and put in 3 sutures. I feel kinda badly about waiting since that made the cutting of the edges necessary. I wonder if they would've used anesthesia if it was only the sutures? Anyway so the plan is for me to brush up on my suturing technique and teach Aias how to suture so we don't have to go through this again. 
Apparently they were kind of swamped there, so she's going to call about the fecal results. She gave Clavamox for the bird to take to prevent skin infection. She also said they don't give Baytril to squeakers because of negative effects on the growth plates. Fred had mentioned that to me yesterday as well. My understanding is that quinolones (eg Baytril, Cipro, etc) have been shown to have detrimental effects on bone growth in some studies on dogs, which is why we don't give it to anyone under 18 yo. I didn't really stop to think about it however as relating to pigeons. 
Anyway I'm very glad that wound is closed!!


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## flitsnowzoom

Glad you were able to get Simon/e cleaned and stitched under "gas" (I can't spell the big word  ). Hopefully this sweetie won't have any more problems. Perhaps the diet was so bad that the skin just couldn't stretch or got so dry that it split when stretched. Anyway, on the mend and good!


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## Reti

Thank you for the update. Sounds like he will be alright in no time.
I had asked my vet about the Baytril and it's administration in youngsters, he never heard of the side effect in birds and in the clinic we've given it routinely. Also at least half of my birds had it with no ill effects. So, if the side effects occurs it might be pretty rare.
Anyways, for superficial wounds Clavamox is preferable.

How is he doing now?

Reti


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## feralpigeon

Reti said:


> Thank you for the update. Sounds like he will be alright in no time.
> I had asked my vet about the Baytril and it's administration in youngsters, he never heard of the side effect in birds and in the clinic we've given it routinely. Also at least half of my birds had it with no ill effects. So, if the side effects occurs it might be pretty rare.
> Anyways, for superficial wounds Clavamox is preferable.
> 
> How is he doing now?
> 
> Reti


I asked Speers about Baytril and babies and he cited the study in Beagles and said there was no corresponding data that showed negative effects in birds. Another client asked Ford ( his partner who raised pigeons as a kid) about the same topic and he said that there was no evidence that birds or pigeons specifically (the babies that is) suffered bone issues as a result of dosing w/Baytril.

I'm not closing the door on this one, but there may be something that is 
species specific going on here.

fp


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## feralpigeon

Aias and Sabina, 

Thanks so much for bringing the bird into AG to get this taken care of 
professionally. It's just so cool that you do have AG as a resource, but
I also know that it takes time from your busy lives scheduling pigeon
duty! Thank you both so much for taking care of NYC's finest==the inner
city ferals!  

fp


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## xxmoxiexx

oh!! he is sooo cute!! did they say anything about the baldness at AG??
is it boy/girl?
i LOVE the pics of her sleeping!! too cute!!
how does Oscar like the new addition!?!


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## TAWhatley

feralpigeon said:


> I asked Speers about Baytril and babies and he cited the study in Beagles and said there was no corresponding data that showed negative effects in birds. Another client asked Ford ( his partner who raised pigeons as a kid) about the same topic and he said that there was no evidence that birds or pigeons specifically (the babies that is) suffered bone issues as a result of dosing w/Baytril.
> 
> I'm not closing the door on this one, but there may be something that is
> species specific going on here.
> 
> fp


I have often given babies Baytril when paratyphoid was known or suspected. Their growth was already inhibited by the paratyphoid, but the Baytril did not seem to cause any adverse reactions .. rather the opposite .. they survived. There are some old and long threads here about Alea and Ali and I forget the name of the other baby she had. We fought a long and hard battle with paratyphoid using Baytril as our weapon, and we won. I would love to hear from Alea again and know how it all ended up with her two baby pigeons. She was in the Navy and probably got deployed ..

Terry


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## sabina

They didn't say anything about the baldness, I think the visit was very focused on the surgery.
We won't know if Simi is a boy or girl until all grown up. And even then, sometimes people get surprised. 
Oscar has paid NO attention to the new addition, none whatsover.
The baby seems fine, is preening, eating, helicoptering--never seemed in any pain at all. Oh and lots of new feathers sprouting on her back and head but not so much on the neck...still a mystery...


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## Reti

I think the feathers will grow eventually. I had one "drop off" baby pigeon in the clinic (a couple had raised him and didn't know at this point what to do with him, they didn't want to keep him), anyways, she was completely bald and it took about two months for her feathers to grow, she looks perfectly normal now.

Reti


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## sabina

Simone has perfect feathering now, her back looks completely normal. 

She is very cute and sweet. She is pretty much only happy if she's standing on one of our heads. Flies straight for the head every time. Or shoulder. Or lap. 

I guess she started flying about a week ago, and she flies pretty well. She is able to venture farther every day. 

I took out her sutures about 9 days after they were put in, you could never tell there was an injury there. It healed perfectly. 

We'll try to post some update pics soon.


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## sabina

Here are some pics from today:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ms_sabina/tags/simone/

which you can compare to pics from before:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/100fires/sets/72157600215725353/


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## Maggie-NC

A few days made all the difference plus excellent care. Simone is looking beautiful.


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## Lovebirds

Simone is so sweet looking. I love the name too. All of you guys come up with such terrific name. I have no imagination at all.!!


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## Skyeking

She looks great! What a difference some tender loving supportive care makes!


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