# The term "self" as descriptor



## rreff (Dec 1, 2013)

I'm trying to find out what the term "self" means when describing a pigeon. I thought it meant that the bird was all the same color. but I have seen one posted as a "red bar self" which is ash grey, red luminescent breast, red bars. I'm confused and any help appreciated. Thanx


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## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

"Self" describes a bird that has no white feather patches (piebald markings) mixed in on an otherwise colored bird, or a bird that has no colored feathers mixed in on an otherwise white bird.


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## rreff (Dec 1, 2013)

*Self*

Terrific, that makes sense, thanx for the reply. lot to learn about pigeon coloring, it even changes with pigeon breed.


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## Henk69 (Feb 25, 2010)

It should mean all one color. In other species it is used that way. A non pied should be called "solid". A blue bar should not qualify as a self.

A self blue chicken is a uniform blue chicken without the lacing that comes with the normal kind of blue (=andalusian blue). Lavender chickens lack the lacing and hence are often called self blue (a thing that should not be  ). To complicate matters further: andalusian blue can be selected for lack of lacing.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Tmass, would you call an ash red bar without any pied markings a self?

Although that may be technically correct, most people refer to selves as being either, straight, white, black, red, brown, dunn, yellow, khaki etc.

That's how I see it but then I prefer to stick to genotypic names.


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## tmaas (May 17, 2012)

Henk, I understand what your saying but chickens don't have any piebald genes either. Doc Hollander used the term "self" for any pigeon not expressing piebald markings, but he is my only reference so maybe there is a different consensus today.

Yes, Evan, I would.


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