# Breeding season started.



## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

Who's got their breeders together? I put mine together today. I have had my cocks inside on lights and when I put the hens in man were they dancing and cooing.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

is it that time for you guys already!....boy how time flys...no pun intended...


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

I plan to put mine together on the 5th of Dec. That way the babies start hatching AFTER Christmas. I've had my birds on lights for a week now. I've got a three new pairings this year, so I may put those three pair together early next week. The other pairs are life long lovers.....they'll go down on eggs in no time flat.


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## Matt D. (May 12, 2007)

Lovebirds said:


> I plan to put mine together on the 5th of Dec. That way the babies start hatching AFTER Christmas. I've had my birds on lights for a week now. I've got a three new pairings this year, so I may put those three pair together early next week. The other pairs are life long lovers.....they'll go down on eggs in no time flat.


Hmm... I'll probably put my birds together sometime In late Feb or early March. Not a big fan of winter breeding.


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## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

Matt D. said:


> Hmm... I'll probably put my birds together sometime In late Feb or early March. Not a big fan of winter breeding.


You can say that again, it too cococloloddd here. At least that is what my birds say to me. It has been below freezing for a week or 2. I have had good birds from late december and from may you just never know I guess. I want to try a darkness system this year. Get the birds bred early and train them out then goto the dark maybe in april or may. I guess it is like the Bieche system.


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## Matt D. (May 12, 2007)

ohiogsp said:


> You can say that again, it too cococloloddd here. At least that is what my birds say to me. It has been below freezing for a week or 2. I have had good birds from late december and from may you just never know I guess. I want to try a darkness system this year. Get the birds bred early and train them out then goto the dark maybe in april or may. I guess it is like the Bieche system.


Well i would agree genetically great birds come at all times of the year. And Generally around here winter breeding is the only way to go. As far as I know I'm the only one to hold off till spring to breed. Where I live 28 degrees for a low is a big deal. So It does make winter breeding easier. I've flown nest my whole life or 'natural' but I don't like it when people that fly nest call it natural when it isn't really natural. I've taken the 'natural' system to the extreme. I don't medicate, I don't vaccinate, I don't worm, I don't use 5-in-1 which I don't like anyway. I just think that a pigeon will preform and be happier in its natural condition and environment that it knows instinctively than in an environment that is full of unnatural lab created substances. I only use two things in my waters; ACV and plant extracts from the Natural Company which I spend way to much money on their products. I don't use products on the feed. I don't use those fancy eggs that 'trick' the birds into 'natural' motivation, which in my opinion if you use those you might as well really trick your birds into coming home and just fly widowhood. I've shaped my thinking after the Janssen Bros. Dad that was even more of a nut than I am. He never used anything but fresh water from their 'pigeon well' in the back yard, and only clean fresh seeds. He hated widowhood and didn't let his sons fly it. They started flying it after he died.  

sorry about my rant.


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

I like your style Matt except the vaccination one. It it were mine I will probably vaccinate with PMV since you are racing. I think PMV can wipe out the performance of a bird permanently. They will never be the same (performance wise) after infected.


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## Matt D. (May 12, 2007)

RodSD said:


> I like your style Matt except the vaccination one. It it were mine I will probably vaccinate with PMV since you are racing. I think PMV can wipe out the performance of a bird permanently. They will never be the same (performance wise) after infected.


You know, I'm going to order 200 pmv shots within the next few weeks for me and 3 other peoples old bird team. I can get away without it in young birds because I know all... 16 lofts that I fly with pretty well and I trust everyone single one of the guys when they ship a bird and say its healthy. But I'm going to be shipping with the California Concourse like usual in Old birds and... i'd rather be safe than have a loft full of sick birds. I'd feel horrible if that happened. So you are right, I do need to do that one (1) exception to my general 'all natural' rule.


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

I put mine together the first of December. Five weeks prior to that, I put them on a one month medication program. After that, I leave the lights on for a whole week. This makes pairing up the birds easier.


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

ohiogsp said:


> You can say that again, it too cococloloddd here. At least that is what my birds say to me. It has been below freezing for a week or 2. I have had good birds from late december and from may you just never know I guess. I want to try a darkness system this year. Get the birds bred early and train them out then goto the dark maybe in april or may. I guess it is like the Bieche system.


Actually, what you describe is the exact opposite of the Bieche system. The idea with his system is to get them through a complete molt before the races begin. The dark system retards the molt so they retain their flights through the race season. I used the Bieche system last year and was very pleased with the results. The birds looked and felt like yearlings when the races came along. Everyone commented on how good they looked.

Hope this helps.

Dan


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## A_Smith (Aug 8, 2006)

ohiogsp said:


> Who's got their breeders together? I put mine together today. I have had my cocks inside on lights and when I put the hens in man were they dancing and cooing.


Hope your 2009 bands come in time. about 10 days to lay and about 17 to hatch and about 5 to grow for the bands. If the bands are delayed  the fit will be tight.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

A_Smith said:


> Hope your 2009 bands come in time. about 10 days to lay and about 17 to hatch and about 5 to grow for the bands. If the bands are delayed  the fit will be tight.


You are right. There's a good chance that some babies won't get banded. IF they lay in 10 days........Dec. 6......19 days to hatch, Dec 24th...Jan 1st is 8 days old ......if they lay in less than 10 days........that's even worse. Clubs are not SUPPOSED to even pass out bands until Jan 1st. 
I've got my OB race team together. Not to raise babies, just "because"........I put them together last Sunday and 6 hens out of 13 laid eggs Tuesday night and they aren't even on lights. Short days and cold weather and they STILL laid in 9 days.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Matt D. said:


> Well i would agree genetically great birds come at all times of the year. And Generally around here winter breeding is the only way to go. As far as I know I'm the only one to hold off till spring to breed. Where I live 28 degrees for a low is a big deal. So It does make winter breeding easier. I've flown nest my whole life or 'natural' but I don't like it when people that fly nest call it natural when it isn't really natural. I've taken the 'natural' system to the extreme. I don't medicate, I don't vaccinate, I don't worm, I don't use 5-in-1 which I don't like anyway. I just think that a pigeon will preform and be happier in its natural condition and environment that it knows instinctively than in an environment that is full of unnatural lab created substances. I only use two things in my waters; ACV and plant extracts from the Natural Company which I spend way to much money on their products. I don't use products on the feed. I don't use those fancy eggs that 'trick' the birds into 'natural' motivation, which in my opinion if you use those you might as well really trick your birds into coming home and just fly widowhood. I've shaped my thinking after the Janssen Bros. Dad that was even more of a nut than I am. He never used anything but fresh water from their 'pigeon well' in the back yard, and only clean fresh seeds. He hated widowhood and didn't let his sons fly it. They started flying it after he died.
> 
> sorry about my rant.


I find this interesting...do you use acv or garlic?..or a natural dewormer?


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## Matt D. (May 12, 2007)

spirit wings said:


> I find this interesting...do you use acv or garlic?..or a natural dewormer?


I do use ACV about 3 times a week in the water. The other times I use the natural plant extracts from Belgium. I don't have to worry too much about worms but If I had a problem I'd take care of it (most likely with a good dose of garlic for a week). The thing about doing your birds all natural is that when they are in condition, they really feel like they're in condition. It feels like their muscles are about to break through their skin. They just feel so much better than 5-in-1 birds when they are in the same condition. Which will trick a lot of people into thinking your birds are in better shape than their birds were when in reality they are in the same condition. I don't use a lot of garlic just because Its not something I do.  don't ask me to explain that. So no on the dewormer too. And my feed is a little different than racing mix too. Its what i like to think really helps when it comes to the condition my birds come into and I believe it helps them stay in top form longer.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Matt D. said:


> I do use ACV about 3 times a week in the water. The other times I use the natural plant extracts from Belgium. I don't have to worry too much about worms but If I had a problem I'd take care of it (most likely with a good dose of garlic for a week). The thing about doing your birds all natural is that when they are in condition, they really feel like they're in condition. It feels like their muscles are about to break through their skin. They just feel so much better than 5-in-1 birds when they are in the same condition. Which will trick a lot of people into thinking your birds are in better shape than their birds were when in reality they are in the same condition. I don't use a lot of garlic just because Its not something I do.  don't ask me to explain that. So no on the dewormer too. And my feed is a little different than racing mix too. Its what i like to think really helps when it comes to the condition my birds come into and I believe it helps them stay in top form longer.


what is your feed mix?....I work at a vet so I can get a fecal check on them whenever I want, and so far have not had to give anything unnatrual to them to "fix" anything, so I don't wonder if I should give anything, which im glad for that...I really like the sound of this natrual way of keeping...


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## Matt D. (May 12, 2007)

spirit wings said:


> what is your feed mix?....I work at a vet so I can get a fecal check on them whenever I want, and so far have not had to give anything unnatrual to them to "fix" anything, so I don't wonder if I should give anything, which im glad for that...I really like the sound of this natrual way of keeping...


I'm beginning to think I should write a book. Now I just need to find someone that would read it.  Well I agree that IMO my 'all-natural' system is the best way to keep it. Other people have different opinions and I can respect that. But When you have a bad ear infection, or any type of bacterial infection and you have to have antibiotics it just takes a huge toll on your body, along with any medicine for that matter. So how is it different with pigeons? I can't tell you. Just something I'd like to say. I do have antibiotics and all kinds of medicine I got about last year in March and Haven't opened them yet so If I needed to I could medicate. I just haven't had to yet.

My feed Mix is always changing because of what my birds are doing. I like to give them just enough calories to do what they need to do. If You feed them like this for 5 months and then you lay down 8 cups of food. I've found they've become very wise eaters. They'll only eat the amount their body needs and not all in safflower.  they'll eat Barley and Pellets. My base mix that I start with is 2 parts race mix 3 parts barley 1 1/2 parts pellets (40% all purpose 60% laying chicken pellets- I get the pellets without the fish in there just because I don't think my birds need the extra protein or to smell like fish  ) and 1 part safflower and 1 part Field Corn. I also throw in brown rice when I think my birds are getting lazy and fat. I think it helps lower the calorie count and it makes them more hungry and they'll fly better around the loft. They'll trap better if you're racing.


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## Ed (Sep 18, 2008)

how hours of light do they need to start breeding?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Matt D. said:


> I'm beginning to think I should write a book. Now I just need to find someone that would read it.  Well I agree that IMO my 'all-natural' system is the best way to keep it. Other people have different opinions and I can respect that. But When you have a bad ear infection, or any type of bacterial infection and you have to have antibiotics it just takes a huge toll on your body, along with any medicine for that matter. So how is it different with pigeons? I can't tell you. Just something I'd like to say. I do have antibiotics and all kinds of medicine I got about last year in March and Haven't opened them yet so If I needed to I could medicate. I just haven't had to yet.
> 
> My feed Mix is always changing because of what my birds are doing. I like to give them just enough calories to do what they need to do. If You feed them like this for 5 months and then you lay down 8 cups of food. I've found they've become very wise eaters. They'll only eat the amount their body needs and not all in safflower.  they'll eat Barley and Pellets. My base mix that I start with is 2 parts race mix 3 parts barley 1 1/2 parts pellets (40% all purpose 60% laying chicken pellets- I get the pellets without the fish in there just because I don't think my birds need the extra protein or to smell like fish  ) and 1 part safflower and 1 part Field Corn. I also throw in brown rice when I think my birds are getting lazy and fat. I think it helps lower the calorie count and it makes them more hungry and they'll fly better around the loft. They'll trap better if you're racing.


Iam going to try adding pellet also, I orderd purina nutri-green, it is a roundish shape so the birds are more likly to eat it..I was not sure at what ratio I was going to mix it so this gives me somewhere to start, thank for the info...im going to keep my flock as natrual as possible as well, nice to hear that it works....


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## Matt D. (May 12, 2007)

spirit wings said:


> Iam going to try adding pellet also, I orderd purina nutri-green, it is a roundish shape so the birds are more likly to eat it..I was not sure at what ratio I was going to mix it so this gives me somewhere to start, thank for the info...im going to keep my flock as natrual as possible as well, nice to hear that it works....


What I know about the purina pellets that are round is that purina says that's all your supposed to feed them. I knew a guy that flew on those and did okay in young birds and sucked serious wind on old birds. I've also thought about it to substitute my chicken pellets but You just have to teach the birds to eat the chicken pellets and they're fine with them. Good Luck using the purina pellets and let me know how they work. If they don't work very well I'd suggest going down to the grain store and picking up a couple 50 pound bags of pellets. If You need to know what makes up the types I get I can send that info to you.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Matt D. said:


> What I know about the purina pellets that are round is that purina says that's all your supposed to feed them. I knew a guy that flew on those and did okay in young birds and sucked serious wind on old birds. I've also thought about it to substitute my chicken pellets but You just have to teach the birds to eat the chicken pellets and they're fine with them. Good Luck using the purina pellets and let me know how they work. If they don't work very well I'd suggest going down to the grain store and picking up a couple 50 pound bags of pellets. If You need to know what makes up the types I get I can send that info to you.


your right!...I reread the info...it is supposed to be blended with nuriblend gold they are designed to be blended as needed to achieve suggested feeding programs depending upon type of bird(racing/show) age of bird,season and situation. and there is a blend chart with % and suggested use the gold is 14% protein and the green is 18%, also says do not feed extra trace minerals supplements (i.e. health grit) since this will produce excessivley loose droppings, plain grit and oyster shell may be fed but not necessary....feeding extra grain wil dilute nutriblend's scientificallyl balanced nutrition,so grain supplementation is not recc. extruded particle:balance nutrition in every bite..natural grain shape, harder than pellets.....oh boy I need to look into this...i would mix with grain in the beginning to change over slowly anyway...so looks like I need to order the gold as well to mix with the green if im going to use it...what do you think of an all complete diet like this?...sounds like chx pellets mix with grain would be alot cheaper...ummm


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## Matt D. (May 12, 2007)

spirit wings said:


> your right!...I reread the info...it is supposed to be blended with nuriblend gold they are designed to be blended as needed to achieve suggested feeding programs depending upon type of bird(racing/show) age of bird,season and situation. and there is a blend chart with % and suggested use the gold is 14% protein and the green is 18%, also says do not feed extra trace minerals supplements (i.e. health grit) since this will produce excessivley loose droppings, plain grit and oyster shell may be fed but not necessary....feeding extra grain wil dilute nutriblend's scientificallyl balanced nutrition,so grain supplementation is not recc. extruded particle:balance nutrition in every bite..natural grain shape, harder than pellets.....oh boy I need to look into this...i would mix with grain in the beginning to change over slowly anyway...so looks like I need to order the gold as well to mix with the green if im going to use it...what do you think of an all complete diet like this?...sounds like chx pellets mix with grain would be alot cheaper...ummm


Sounds like a waste of time.  You do know that if you feed your birds straight pellets at a young age that are fed pellets while they mature can never be fed grain? Because once they mature on pellets they're gizzards don't develop because they don't need them for pellets. So if you feed grain and grit it will kill the birds. If I were you (assuming you haven't bought any of the pellets yet..) I'd just go down to the feed store and get grain. In my opinion Grain is the best thing to feed your birds while pellets are good too. So I looked for the fine line between too little and too much pellets and I'm pretty sure I've found it. People are always surprised when they see how well my birds poop looks and find out that I feed pellets. They always tell me that when they tried pellets the birds poop was everywhere. Mine is as solid as can be and its perfect. Hehe as perfect as poop can be.  I use a lot of barley which I think is very important too. Safflower is good for the natural oils their body needs and is A great treat.  Race mix has quite a bit of protein and just different sizes of seeds and different vitamins in it so I really like to feed a bit a that also. I feed Field corn because its much healthier than popcorn and its got more carbs and protein and less fat in it, too. So If i were you I'd go and get me some grain and play around with the mixture until you find what makes your birds fall into peak health. Once you are there you'll need to make slight adjustments; depending on weather, physical exercise, time of year, nest condition, etc. Once you get in the hang of it, It all just seems to flow. And You'll be able to enjoy your birds health and happiness.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Matt D. said:


> Sounds like a waste of time.  You do know that if you feed your birds straight pellets at a young age that are fed pellets while they mature can never be fed grain? Because once they mature on pellets they're gizzards don't develop because they don't need them for pellets. So if you feed grain and grit it will kill the birds. If I were you (assuming you haven't bought any of the pellets yet..) I'd just go down to the feed store and get grain. In my opinion Grain is the best thing to feed your birds while pellets are good too. So I looked for the fine line between too little and too much pellets and I'm pretty sure I've found it. People are always surprised when they see how well my birds poop looks and find out that I feed pellets. They always tell me that when they tried pellets the birds poop was everywhere. Mine is as solid as can be and its perfect. Hehe as perfect as poop can be.  I use a lot of barley which I think is very important too. Safflower is good for the natural oils their body needs and is A great treat.  Race mix has quite a bit of protein and just different sizes of seeds and different vitamins in it so I really like to feed a bit a that also. I feed Field corn because its much healthier than popcorn and its got more carbs and protein and less fat in it, too. So If i were you I'd go and get me some grain and play around with the mixture until you find what makes your birds fall into peak health. Once you are there you'll need to make slight adjustments; depending on weather, physical exercise, time of year, nest condition, etc. Once you get in the hang of it, It all just seems to flow. And You'll be able to enjoy your birds health and happiness.


will do, thanks for the advice, makes sense, Im going to look for some barley, the seed mix I have now is jm browns breeder mix , I think it is a good mix with the field corn in it. I will just have to add the purina nutigreen in to get rid of the bag as I already orderd it...live and learn....thanks again.


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## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

A_Smith said:


> Hope your 2009 bands come in time. about 10 days to lay and about 17 to hatch and about 5 to grow for the bands. If the bands are delayed  the fit will be tight.



I figured the earliest ones would be 8 days old and that is fine with me. We always have our bands on time. I would hope they would never be late since they are bought and paid for in the summer. Plus that would be a disaster cause others will have babies ready to go also. I am sure I will be fine.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

I am supplementing the purina green pellets in my feed mixture. It is about 15% of the mix. I felt I needed the minerals and supplements it provides. I get lazy with the vitamins. I have had them on the pellets for about two months and they are coming into good condition. I will bump the pellets up during breeding and either change to chicken breeder pellets or the Purina Gold. They both have extra calcium. I also read only to feed pellets, but I think that is a marketing ploy by purina. Why can I feed what I want of chicken pellets, but not pigeon pellets. The pellets are the last thing they eat. My cocks are looking much better than the hens. 

As far as medication, I am also all natural. The last time I used 4 in 1 was four years ago. That was also the best breeding year as far as numbers went for me. I think I am going to put the birds on the 4 in 1 with a wormer two to three weeks before I put them together and see how it works this year. 

I am only introducing two birds this season so my outside exposure is minimal. One has been in the loft for about two months the other I will be getting over the Christmas Holiday. I am introducing a hen off of one of my birds that won a 250 mile race and a sibling of this years 200 mile race in ABQ. 

I will put my birds together after winter solstice about the 22nd of Dec. Mainly because I will be off from work at that time. I will breed only two rounds to send out and a third round to select a few breeders from. The rest will be sold or given to start up lofts. 

Randy


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

good tip on the purina, Ill see how they do on it with the grain....just a quick question, when is the natural peak breeding and hatching time of the year for them, is it spring or summer, that is if not racing birds...


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## Matt D. (May 12, 2007)

spirit wings said:


> good tip on the purina, Ill see how they do on it with the grain....just a quick question, when is the natural peak breeding and hatching time of the year for them, is it spring or summer, that is if not racing birds...


Naturally, Pigeons (like most animals) start to do their 'thing' in early spring. Depending on where you live. Here After the last frost (somewhere around March 1) is when the wild birds start to do their thing and the feral pigeons too. That is usually When i pair my breeders. I breed from the old bird team in January so they can get into the program and Get ready to do that while flying 500 miles. But if you aren't going to race; You'll tell when your birds are ready. They'll tell you.


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

I plan on getting the birds into the new breeding loft on Sunday! They will spend two weeks on the lights before the cocks and hens are put together. I will not have to worry about having my bands in time to band the first round.

As for the feed. My race mix and maintenance mix are 100% grain. My breeding mix is just under 50% pellets. This mix has three different types of pellets and is a 16 1/2 % protein mix. With this mix my babies will have everything they need.

As soon as the young birds are moved to the racing loft I start changing the mix to a 100% grain mix with less protein.

Ace


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Well, I've got all my breeders together. Put a few together Wednesday and the rest have been put together this morning. Love is in the air and babies will be coming soon.............


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## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

Waiting on eggs. None of the birds I put together just before thanksgiving were paired before and maybe they did not get right to it. Come on eggs!!


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

Never had much luck with Yb`s hatched in January...Most of my best birds were hatched in late April or early May...Tried the early breeding for 3 years,a long time ago,and never had any YB do anything special...Birds raised with some decent weather outside the loft will do well in the races...Remember,quality of the birds means more, then what month you put them together...One of the best flyers here never has any YB`s hatched before the 1st or 2nd week of May..And when the races start in August,allmost every week he got birds in the top 10 in the combine results...Alamo


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## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

I have had good ones from dec. to may. Last year one of my best was almost the first born but I had some good ones born in may. I think it really don't matter other than the long races. I believe the younger birds don't have what it takes to go over 300 miles at the end of the season. I lost some good "may" birds when we got out further last year. Our last race here for me is 340 miles and the birds that did well were earlier birds. I could be wrong cause I have only flown one year but that is what I thought.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

ohiogsp said:


> I have had good ones from dec. to may. Last year one of my best was almost the first born but I had some good ones born in may. I think it really don't matter other than the long races. I believe the younger birds don't have what it takes to go over 300 miles at the end of the season. I lost some good "may" birds when we got out further last year. Our last race here for me is 340 miles and the birds that did well were earlier birds. I could be wrong cause I have only flown one year but that is what I thought.


That's what I think too.  Of course, I don't raise any birds after March or if I do, it's only one or two.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

quick question, birds that race at 350 miles, at what point or miles to you stop on the training tosses.....


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

spirit wings said:


> quick question, birds that race at 350 miles, at what point or miles to you stop on the training tosses.....


Everybody trains different. Some try to get their birds all the way to the first race station. I usually train my birds out to about 85 miles before the first race. By the time you get to the 350 mile race, you're birds have (or SHOULD have) already flown a few races and been out to probably 200 or 250 miles. It's a progression. We don't just train them and then send them 300 plus miles. Or at least I don't.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Lovebirds said:


> Everybody trains different. Some try to get their birds all the way to the first race station. I usually train my birds out to about 85 miles before the first race. By the time you get to the 350 mile race, you're birds have (or SHOULD have) already flown a few races and been out to probably 200 or 250 miles. It's a progression. We don't just train them and then send them 300 plus miles. Or at least I don't.


I see, I was thinking that was alot of miles to drive, you just send them in their box to the race point and progress each time...I get it....


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

spirit wings said:


> I see, I was thinking that was alot of miles to drive, you just send them in their box to the race point and progress each time...I get it....


Well, we fly with clubs, combines and federations. A club is just that. One group of members who form a club. The combine is all of the clubs together. A federation is all of the combines together. 
A club might have say 20 members. If there's 5 clubs with 20 members, then the combine has 100 members and if there's three combines, the federation has 300 members. 
Each club meets at their club house on Friday night with each members birds. We scan our birds and put them in crates that are built to go on to a big trailer. The trailer comes by and picks up our crates full of birds. The trailer then goes to the next club and gets their birds and so one. Once the trailer has picked up all the birds from each club, he then drives to the release point. Next morning at a specified time, he opens all the crates and releases all the birds at one time to go home to their respective lofts.


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## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

Well, breeding is not going great yet but i am getting there. I have 3 pairs down on 2 eggs and 3 pairs down on one egg. I am waiting for the pairs with singles to lay the other egg but one of those pairs laid one the day before yesterday. I am not sure if they will lay the second but if they don't maybe anouther pair will only lay one and then I can pull both singles and pump them under anouther pair. Do you ever find some pairs just won't pair for some reason? Hopefully I won't have too much problem with this and if they haven't laid within 3 weeks or so I will switch the pairs out.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

ohiogsp said:


> Well, breeding is not going great yet but i am getting there. I have 3 pairs down on 2 eggs and 3 pairs down on one egg. I am waiting for the pairs with singles to lay the other egg but one of those pairs laid one the day before yesterday. I am not sure if they will lay the second but if they don't maybe anouther pair will only lay one and then I can pull both singles and pump them under anouther pair. Do you ever find some pairs just won't pair for some reason? Hopefully I won't have too much problem with this and if they haven't laid within 3 weeks or so I will switch the pairs out.


I see in your very first post, you said you had the cocks on lights. Did you not have the hens on lights? If not, why? Both should be on lights for a couple of weeks before pairing. I do have one pair that are pairing up ok, SHE just won't go to a nest box. Wants to nest in the corner in the floor. Not sure what I'm going to do about that. This pair was together last year and were fine, BUT, they were in an individual pen. Oh well, I've got too many breeders anyway.


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## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

I did only have the cocks on light cause I breed in individual cages in my garage. This is the only way I have lights cause I have no power in any of my lofts.


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## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

Ok, how many days apart do you think the eggs can be when switching to pumpers? My pumpers dropped eggs before my breeders and some are like 3 days after. So, the pumpers are going to have to sit these 3 days longer is this alright? What is the longest you can go?


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

ohiogsp said:


> Ok, how many days apart do you think the eggs can be when switching to pumpers? My pumpers dropped eggs before my breeders and some are like 3 days after. So, the pumpers are going to have to sit these 3 days longer is this alright? What is the longest you can go?


I have always been told that three days would be pushing it. I have never tried it that far apart so i don't know for sure. I fostered an egg last year that was two days apart and they did fine.

Dan


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Well, I would think that depends on how long your birds will sit on eggs before giving up. The closer the timing, of course, the better.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

ohiogsp said:


> Ok, how many days apart do you think the eggs can be when switching to pumpers? My pumpers dropped eggs before my breeders and some are like 3 days after. So, the pumpers are going to have to sit these 3 days longer is this alright? What is the longest you can go?


You run the risk that they simply quit....like a work stoppage. Then what do you do ? Then you have to recycle them all over again. This means you could end up with dead baby's in the nest.


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

Any time you put eggs under pumpers who have laid more than 1 day ahead you risk them leaving the nest before the young hatch. You just don't know how long they will set before the leave the nest. 

Ace


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

ohiogsp said:


> Ok, how many days apart do you think the eggs can be when switching to pumpers? My pumpers dropped eggs before my breeders and some are like 3 days after. So, the pumpers are going to have to sit these 3 days longer is this alright? What is the longest you can go?


I think 3 days is pushing it. That's why I've never been big on pumpers. The timing has to be very close, and unless you've got a dozen pair of pumpers, it don't usually work out right.


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## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

Oh, bad deal. I guess the pumpers laying a little later is better than the other way around. Most of them will be alright I think, but worried about a couple. My pumpers are breeding machines keep my fingers crossed I guess. The next round will be raised by the parents so I won't have to worry about it then.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Well...a bit OT....but once upon a time, one of my pumper pairs were not needed, and by "accident" produced some babies. That "accident" was the start of the current new SFL dynasty. American Aces, Diploma Winners, One Loft Race winners, etc. all the result of being a day or two off...and saying "Oh the heck with it". It was a brother x sister pairing, left over from the previous season because they hatched too late. 

Once that happened, their sire was paid more attention to, as was their dam. Years later, the whole loft, and that of "Affilates" has been dramatically affected. So, worse case...maybe...just maybe..let that pumper set that pair of eggs.


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## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

My pumpers are pairs that were gave to me mostly last year. Of course people had already bred from these probably without much luck. They are mostly 3-5 years old. I bred from them and did not get much. Alot of the babies got lost before the races ever started and one of the pairs had beautiful babies and every time I put one in a race I never seen it again. I swithched the pairing from what people had if they already bred from them and tried to switch them up a bit but no luck. So, I doubt there is a diamond in the rough there most the birds were probably breeders for at least 3 years and nothing.


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## Guest (Dec 12, 2008)

sometimes if you know your pumpers better you could work this out ...so Im thinking if you kept records on the times your pumper pairs stayed on their eggs the better you could judge how good your chances would be with what pairs that stay on their eggs longer to hatch and use those  just a thought


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## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

Well, candled my eggs today and they all seem to be good.  The reason I need to pump these so bad is because I got 4 old cocks from a guy, they are 8-12 years old. They were straight from Cambell Strange and they have produced many winners for him. They are bred very nice and I want to try to get 6-8 birds ea. off these in hopes to have a good racer or 2 or 4  to keep for stock.


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

The breeding season starts for my birds Today! The girls are in crates right now, waiting to see their guys. The guys all have their nest bowls and are ready to strut their stuff. 

They are looking great! This year one half of my team will come from only 5 pair (by using pumpers). I think this is going to be a good year.

*Renee*, It won't be long now before the baby pics thread!!!!!!!!!!

Ace


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## whitesnmore (Sep 9, 2004)

ohiogsp said:


> I believe the younger birds don't have what it takes to go over 300 miles at the end of the season.


I have had a few "OOOPS" babies hatched in June/July finish the 200 & 300 in good time. Didn't win but they had good time and the 200 was their first race!! I find my first round are too wing strong and I lose the majority of them after the first week of loft flying. My second round has been the best. I am not putting birds together until January 10th this coming year to cut down on the losses due to not getting them out early enough.
Ken


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## Guest (Dec 18, 2008)

breeding season never stops here but I just have to decide who and what I want to let happen in my loft lol doesnt matter if I have them on lites or not they breed and lays eggs no matter what  I like to wait til february myself thou cuz I dont race and its easier on the babys too


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## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

whitesnmore said:


> I have had a few "OOOPS" babies hatched in June/July finish the 200 & 300 in good time. Didn't win but they had good time and the 200 was their first race!! I find my first round are too wing strong and I lose the majority of them after the first week of loft flying. My second round has been the best. I am not putting birds together until January 10th this coming year to cut down on the losses due to not getting them out early enough.
> Ken


I have not been that lucky with my younger birds. I did have the same problem you had with loosing my first round last year. This year I am going to train my birds out very early. I hope to have them on open loft by the beginning of march. Last year I did not let them out until may and I think that was a big mistake.


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

*It Starts!*

Well, I put the last of my breeders together today. The first half have about a two week head start on the rest. I was short hens and thanks to a very good friend, I got some more to fill out the breeding loft. (Thanks a ton Warren!) They were in quarentine for the last two weeks but they are now with their mates. They really didn't need the quarentine time. They were absolutely gorgeous right out of the box, but just to be safe...

LET THE FROLICING BEGIN!! 

The love shack is officially open for business! 

Dan


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