# Almond or spread yellow?



## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Here's the "almond" young homer I trapped. That's what I've been calling it so that it's easy to know which bird I'm referring to.

So, I'm thinking it's either almond or it's spread ash-yellow cockbird carrying...something. Some of the flecks do look blue, but some of them look more brown and almond-like. Could just be the dilute making it look like that. You can faintly see the bars as well as some yellow around the neck. It's moulting as I can see a difference in base color here and there.

































https://picasaweb.google.com/108318242248538100395/October2011


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## Pigeonrh (Oct 3, 2001)

if it was spread yellow, I don't think the flecking would be that dark from personal experience... But it makes since if it was Almond... Odd............... lol My GUESS is almond right now... lets see a pic once its moulted.. way easier to tell


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

What a gorgeous bird!! No band or anything??


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## horseart4u (Jun 16, 2011)

nice catch becky, he's a keeper right?


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

No band. Looks to be a couple months old. So yes, he's a keeper  He's being quarantined right now.


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## red check 200 (Jul 3, 2011)

*Homing Pigeon????*

What makes you think that's a homing pigeon ? Looks more feral to me.. Cross of some kind !!


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## red check 200 (Jul 3, 2011)

More like a couple of years old rather than months. Look at the eyes .


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

The eyes have not fully matured. This bird has pearl eyes. The cere is not very white yet either and it has shown no interest in other birds. It's highly unlikely that a feral would come out both spread and dilute, and much less almond. Looks like a young homer to me. A cross is possible.

In fact, I'm pretty sure I know where it came from, but without a band no one can know for sure, and if it did come from the loft I'm thinking of, then it's life will be 10x better here.


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## Pigeonrh (Oct 3, 2001)

By the looks of them small thin tail feathers and the sharp flights it doesn't look more then a couple months old. The flights seem to be coming in darker and its only a couple flights in to the moult by the looks of it and with that kind of color change it usually means its moulting its first flights. JMO


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## red check 200 (Jul 3, 2011)

Don't think the right thing to do would be to return the bird to it's owner if you know who it belongs to. Would you like someone to keep one of your birds that trapped at their loft????


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

You come from saying the bird is a feral to it needs to be returned. She obviously doesn't know the owner, she could inform her local Craigslist that a homer without a band showed up, and if they could describe the bird then it could be returned upon pick up. A bird without band obviously makes it hard to prove ownership. So unless someone could say I lost a spread yellow or almond bird then it's Becky's bird.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I don't know that it's their bird. I just know it's an option. It came in with my race birds so it could be anyone's. Now that I think about it, that loft is in the wrong direction. It's North and my birds came from the South.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Print Tippler said:


> You come from saying the bird is a feral to it needs to be returned. She obviously doesn't know the owner, she could inform her local Craigslist that a homer without a band showed up, and if they could describe the bird then it could be returned upon pick up. A bird without band obviously makes it hard to prove ownership. So unless someone could say I lost a spread yellow or almond bird then it's Becky's bird.


And quite honestly, if they cared about their birds, they should have banded them. Even my bandless birds have some form of band. IF this bird did belong to the person I know around here with pigeons, then I'd be reluctant to take it back. The guy has to many animals crammed onto a tiny square of land. Literally has no yard, just a ton of overcrowded animals (more than likely everything is bred for food). He buys pigeons all the time and lets them cross however they please. I'm not even sure if he locks them up. They're always out when I pass so needless to say, there's almost always a hawk sitting on the powerline across the road to pick up fast food. So basically, he houses a bunch of true ferals, in that they are domestic but living the wild life. If this bird came from that loft, I imagine it left because it didn't want to stay there anymore. At least here I know it's safe from predators, wormed regularly, and its presence aknowledged. I will eventually let it out to fly and if it decides to stay, fine. If not, then it can travel the 3 miles back "home" if that is where it came from. If it was from somewhere else, then it will go wherever that is. 

My first concern right now is getting it treated and 100% healthy. It's lightweight so I'm going to worm it next. He's getting lots of safflower right now so that should help him put on some weight


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

Are you happy about the new bird? Good color? If its dilute wouldn't the flecks be silver?


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## beatlemike (Nov 28, 2009)

I havent a clue about the colors Becky but it really is a nice looking bird. Keep it!


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## Cyreen (Jun 6, 2010)

I think the bird made his own choice. Very pretty.


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

I have some almond Thief Pouters and its very similar in colour. I think its blue bar with almond


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

I am not sure either way, and probably shouldn't even comment. Ignoring my own advice though, I think that this bird is too light for Almond, especially the tail, but I am no almond expert. Only started breeding them this year.

Dilute blue is really not that light, so I guess dilute ash-red split for blue, but I am probably wrong.


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## red check 200 (Jul 3, 2011)

So you go from pretty sure to not knowing where it came from. I think you should contact the people you think it came from to be sure. 





"In fact, I'm pretty sure I know where it came from, but without a band no one can know for sure, and if it did come from the loft I'm thinking of, then it's life will be 10x better here."


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## lmorales4 (Jul 8, 2010)

She asked about color not your opinion on where it should go, man sometimes people on these forums should stick to the topic at hand, I think it looks almond it's probably so light because of it's age and may get darker after it moults.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I think it looks almond as well..but just like some of the rest, Im not an expert.

oh.. no band = anyone's bird.. all pigeon keepers out there. BAND YOUR BIRDS IF YOU WANT THEM BACK. sometimes folks are just jealouse of others who have a cool bird come in their loft that can't be traced.


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

Help me understand one thing, if that bird is pure for dilute, that shows despite what the color is, right ? So should not be the blue flecks (if its blue flecks) also expressed in the dilute form ?


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

rudolph.est said:


> I am not sure either way, and probably shouldn't even comment. Ignoring my own advice though, I think that this bird is too light for Almond, especially the tail, but I am no almond expert. Only started breeding them this year.
> 
> Dilute blue is really not that light, so I guess dilute ash-red split for blue, but I am probably wrong.


The tail is mostly white, as are most of the flights 



And yes everyone the flecks would be silver too. Which silver hardly looks different from blue, especially judging by little flecks. The main difference is in the flights, which there's no flecks I can really go by. If it decides to stay and have babies, I guess I will know when it has some daughters.

Scratch almond. This bird is a grizzle. It was dark when I looked at it and at first thought it had white flights and tail. Nope, they are grizzled. The whole bird looks like a grizzle now that I've actually taken the time to look at it. Now the only thing to figure out is whether it is spread or not and whether or not it is dilute. The red does not look right, so I'm still thinking dilute. It is definitely a barred grizzle though. Pied as well. As an update, he is looking better. At first his eyes looked a little sickish. He's more alert already and the eyes don't look as wet. Still has that bright green stain around his vent but that will be taken care of with a bath. After the medicine his droppings should look much better.


By the way, I will put it on craigslist and may put up a flier at the gas station beside the guy's house (well, not right beside. There's two houses between them) stating I have a lost bandless pigeon. No pictures and the bird will have to be described. Otherwsie, anyone in the area wanting a pigeon (for god only knows what reasons) will say "yeah, that's my bird".


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

It Does show to be almond OR qualmond. And shows line on the wing bar. DOES look like a young homer. AND look at the wing flight to see how many are moulted in. That give and age idea. 2 to 3 months by eye color in picture But see how flights it dropped and moulted in.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*Hi Becky, From what I see you just might have an extreme dilute, take a good look at the tail do you see a colored tail bar? The first extreme dilutes (Barkel's lemons)were very light in color but they did have a tail bar because they were a (Blue based bird) The gene has now been put into the red birds but in that case you will not see a tail bar.There are a lot of show people working with this gene We have a fantail guy out here that has in fantails. The bird that you have could be an F1 cross.If I had that bird I would use it in a project that I have been planning.* GEORGE


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I can't tell. The tail and flights are both almost completely white other than some grizzling. Like I said, this bird is grizzle which I discovered today. Or I think so. Not much white color anywhere BUT the flights/tail, but it does make the bars and color on the next "grizzly" but then again spread does that same thing on ash-red/yellow birds when the color leaks through a bit. But either way, the flights/tail look very much grizzled.


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## NewHopePoultry (Feb 7, 2010)

I have no idea what color it is, besides pretty!
I say keep it  No band=no owner to me


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

george simon said:


> *Hi Becky, From what I see you just might have an extreme dilute, take a good look at the tail do you see a colored tail bar? The first extreme dilutes (Barkel's lemons)were very light in color but they did have a tail bar because they were a (Blue based bird) The gene has now been put into the red birds but in that case you will not see a tail bar.There are a lot of show people working with this gene We have a fantail guy out here that has in fantails. The bird that you have could be an F1 cross.If I had that bird I would use it in a project that I have been planning.* GEORGE


I am not sure whether any lemons would show the blue flecking we see in this bird? If it were an ash-red split for blue, homozygous extreme dilute, the blue flecks would show up as the original lemon color wouldn't it? How could the birds have blue / silver flecks if it were a homozygous lemon?

If we add grizzle to the mix, this bird could even be (dilute) homozygous indigo bar grizzle (not that I've ever seen such a bird, but I would assume the head and rump would show more blue). What we see as flecks could just be the grizzle at work. 

But I vote with Becky on this one, lets assume dilute ash-red [grizzle] [spread] split for blue, until she finds the owner or breeds from it to confirm. Also the red crescent on the lower back of the neck is to me indicative of ash-red grizzle, at least that's where my ash-red bar grizzles show most color (excepting the pattern area of course).


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

rudolph.est said:


> I am not sure whether any lemons would show the blue flecking we see in this bird? If it were an ash-red split for blue, homozygous extreme dilute, the blue flecks would show up as the original lemon color wouldn't it? How could the birds have blue / silver flecks if it were a homozygous lemon?
> 
> If we add grizzle to the mix, this bird could even be (dilute) homozygous indigo bar grizzle (not that I've ever seen such a bird, but I would assume the head and rump would show more blue). What we see as flecks could just be the grizzle at work.
> 
> But I vote with Becky on this one, lets assume dilute ash-red [grizzle] [spread] split for blue, until she finds the owner or breeds from it to confirm. Also the red crescent on the lower back of the neck is to me indicative of ash-red grizzle, at least that's where my ash-red bar grizzles show most color (excepting the pattern area of course).


I agree, defenitly not a lemon, I still say almond, looks a lot like the almonds I breed when they are young birds. Blue Almonds often appear to have a yellow look to them, This is where the pigment is allowed through partially.


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

thepigeonkey said:


> I agree, defenitly not a lemon, I still say almond, looks a lot like the almonds I breed when they are young birds. Blue Almonds often appear to have a yellow look to them, This is where the pigment is allowed through partially.


I've only recently started raising almond, and have not yet mated any that do not have a bronze base which significantly darkens the ground color. I assume it is possible that an almond without bronze / rec-red could show a very light base color which would be termed yellow.

I do think that chances of an almond bar homer[ish] pigeon (which are extremely rare) arriving at someone's doorstep is quite slim. I'm sure Becky would've known if there was breeder of rare colored homers in her area. Even if the bird is not a pure homer, very few racing pigeon enthusiasts would crossbreed their homers to other breeds, just for the sake of color.

I still say dilute ash-red is more likely (even though still quite rare).


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

rudolph.est said:


> I've only recently started raising almond, and have not yet mated any that do not have a bronze base which significantly darkens the ground color. I assume it is possible that an almond without bronze / rec-red could show a very light base color which would be termed yellow.
> 
> I do think that chances of an almond bar homer[ish] pigeon (which are extremely rare) arriving at someone's doorstep is quite slim. I'm sure Becky would've known if there was breeder of rare colored homers in her area. Even if the bird is not a pure homer, very few racing pigeon enthusiasts would crossbreed their homers to other breeds, just for the sake of color.
> 
> I still say dilute ash-red is more likely (even though still quite rare).


You are right, the chances are slim, I will be interested in the update on this one once it has moulted/bred.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

It's likely the person had almond rollers or some other breed and perhaps didn't mind crossing them. Another fancier around here that I've found, a very nice guy, but he lets his cross breed too. Results in some beautiful birds but not good for much else (competition-wise). He just loves having birds for the fun of it.

But I do agree, almond is rare and I doubt it is one. It just sorta looked like one at first glance, so that's what I "named" it  It's known in the house as "the almond bird". Makes it easier for me when trying to get my dad on the same page as me as far as which bird I'm talking about, LOL.

So I am thinking ash-yellow bar grizzle, piebald, split for blue, MAYBE spread but I doubt it since grizzle cuts through the pattern just like coarse ash-red/yellow spreads do.


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## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

I'm a rookie here but I have bred almond Spanish Theifs for a few years and have barred, cheque, T-cheque, brown, blue and ash red. each pattern and colour produces a slightly different look.

I have also bred dilute grizzles in my racers and frillbacks none turned out like this.

I think maybe the dark flecking is too sporadic for grizzle. 

Flecking around the head like that is common trait for almond.

Luke the rookie


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Well, the dark flecks are just a sign of it being a het cockbird, nothing to do with the grizzle really. We will see


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## rudolph.est (May 14, 2009)

Seems like breeding is the only way to find out for sure! That's the fun part anyway, trying to figure out what you have and predicting the offspring, and then waiting for those eggs to hatch, waiting for the feathers to come in, waiting for the tail to be long enough for the bar to show, and then waiting for the first moult. 

Pigeon genetics is a waiting game! ;-)


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## indigobob (Nov 12, 2008)

I agree with "Luke the Rookie" that it is almond. 

The accompanying photograph shows a blue bar almond hen with similar coloured bars and neck. Although this bird is in adult plumage and baldhead-marked, there are similarities to the young homer/feral.

C:\Documents and Settings\Robert Bennion\My Documents\Almond hen pigeon talk.jpg


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Any updated pics on this one?, Appears Almond with no bronzes or modifiers to me.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

I will get some new pictures soon


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Cool, Thanks!


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

Any new photos? Beautiful bird and would love to see updates!!


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

MaryOfExeter said:


> Well, the dark flecks are just a sign of it being a het cockbird, nothing to do with the grizzle really. We will see


The dark flecks may also be indicitave of it being a blue based almond.
The flecking is very prominent for a bird with grizzle as the grizzle would fade out the flecking, If not almond then it looks to be an ash red dilute split blue with spread. you cannot say that this is a het cockbird as if its almond it could very well be a hen


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## Heedictator (May 19, 2011)

MaryOfExeter said:


> Here's the "almond" young homer I trapped. That's what I've been calling it so that it's easy to know which bird I'm referring to.
> 
> So, I'm thinking it's either almond or it's spread ash-yellow cockbird carrying...something. Some of the flecks do look blue, but some of them look more brown and almond-like. Could just be the dilute making it look like that. You can faintly see the bars as well as some yellow around the neck. It's moulting as I can see a difference in base color here and there.
> 
> ...


just bringing the picture we are investigating at~~ about a month ago an adult hen homer of this color was presented to me when i went to an old breeder to take some homers to breed telling me she was a pure homer breed~ but i didn't take that hen because i suspect she is not a pure homer as what he was telling me because of the small nose~ but her ceres in the eyes are wrinkled like that of pure homers .. and also there are lots of cross-homers in their loft with some sort of that coloration often mixed with blue showing a kind of grizzly-necked white-flight pied cross-homers~ i took home a young(about 2months old) white with a small group of white with grey feathers just above the neck and the feather's just above the tail feathers(upper counterpart of vents) homer instead~ i trusted him when he said it was a pure-breed homer~~ late enough to band but lucky that i got ''her'' banded using petroleum jelly^^


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## Heedictator (May 19, 2011)

if i were a pigeon i would want to live in becky's loft~ there are lot's of beautiful girls in there haha only if she'll accept me^^ and becky sure knows all she does she's a pigeon expert!^^


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

rudolph.est said:


> I am not sure whether any lemons would show the blue flecking we see in this bird? If it were an ash-red split for blue, homozygous extreme dilute, the blue flecks would show up as the original lemon color wouldn't it? How could the birds have blue / silver flecks if it were a homozygous lemon?
> 
> If we add grizzle to the mix, this bird could even be (dilute) homozygous indigo bar grizzle (not that I've ever seen such a bird, but I would assume the head and rump would show more blue). What we see as flecks could just be the grizzle at work.
> 
> But I vote with Becky on this one, lets assume dilute ash-red [grizzle] [spread] split for blue, until she finds the owner or breeds from it to confirm. Also the red crescent on the lower back of the neck is to me indicative of ash-red grizzle, at least that's where my ash-red bar grizzles show most color (excepting the pattern area of course).


Hi RUDOLPH,We have some breeders here in the USA that have put extreme dilute into Ash Red,when this is done the extreme dilute becomes RED based, so if one mates a red base extrene hen to a bluebar cock you will get a extreme split for blue.This is my understanding. I now have two blue based extremes and I will at some point put it into red, but I have other projects that come first so it will be later. ..GEORGE


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

george simon said:


> Hi RUDOLPH,We have some breeders here in the USA that have put extreme dilute into Ash Red,when this is done the extreme dilute becomes RED based, so if one mates a red base extrene hen to a bluebar cock you will get a extreme split for blue.This is my understanding. I now have two blue based extremes and I will at some point put it into red, but I have other projects that come first so it will be later. ..GEORGE




I very much doubt this is extreme dilute, It looks nothing like any of the birds on the internet. It does not show the Lemon colour that extreme dilutes show. Based on Rudolphs theory that an almond homer or a dilute spread grizzle is rare and unlikely to fly into someones loft I would say the chance of extreme dilute is extremely unlikely. 

Do you think this is an extreme dilute based on the picture or is it just a possibility you are bringing to the table?


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Becky, Update?


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## pigeonboy14 (Feb 13, 2011)

looks almond


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Agreed - I think Becky is ignoring me.... Or probably to busy to take another pic....... please becky


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## nzpouter (Aug 20, 2011)

My money on almond.


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