# Are these smokey?



## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

Right one is cock, left (dark) one is hen
does the wing and tail showing smokey


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

Not the bottom one, if there is a full white strip on the outer tail then no. If there's no white strip then it's **** smokey, half a strip then hetero smokey


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

Print Tippler said:


> Not the bottom one, if there is a full white strip on the outer tail then no. If there's no white strip then it's **** smokey, half a strip then hetero smokey


So i can call it a brown based smokey grizzle

& the bottom one, blue based spread grizzle??

I am trying to learn, so your answers will be great help


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

Cant tell you on the first bird, bottom one does appear tone a dilute blue grizzle, no spread because I can clearly see a tail bar. It may have other modifiers like sooty. I'm not an expert can only point out things that are basic. Genetics of some middle eastern, asian, and chinese breeds are not well studied. If one was to want to figure out whatever are in birds you want blue bars to cross them with then you can start to make sense of things.


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

http://www.angelfire.com/ga/huntleyloft/smokey.html

In above website, very similar birds are called smokey with same tail and wing feathers

Sooty has whitish feather tips at wings and dark flicking on the wing shield

you are right about the HF genetic knowledge is limited, I am trying to find their genotypes with the help of their different offsprings. Its very difficult and i guess due to the same reason i am not getting much help here

Thanks for the help


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

yeah i made a mistake i ment smokey, Though sooty can make a haze over the bird on ash reds. It could just be the grizzle.


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

yeah and not spread but dilute

can it carry 'dirty' as well because the feet and nails are blackish


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

it could but cant be sure. There are multiply dirty genes and they act different. The only one im familiar with would make the beak on the bird darker.


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

okey got it

The other bird has a brownish color on head and neck, now i read that 'Print grizzle' is a mixture of grizzle, under grizzle and kite bronze.

Is it the same bronze or that bronze which is reffered to PG is only on its wing feathers

Sorry too may questions but actually you are only one answering here


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

Print grizzle is not really known. I have some that show bronzing in the wings and head at a young age. Maybe I'll find out in the future if I breed one to a blue bar and "deconstruct" the genes if that was the case. I think it may be a gene by itself. If it was just grizzle, kite, and under grizzle seems like you would see it in more breeds.


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

Print Tippler said:


> Print grizzle is not really known. I have some that show bronzing in the wings and head at a young age. Maybe I'll find out in the future if I breed one to a blue bar and "deconstruct" the genes if that was the case. I think it may be a gene by itself. If it was just grizzle, kite, and under grizzle seems like you would see it in more breeds.


Ok 'Print Grizzle' is still a mystery

I am trying to build a record of color and patterns of my birds and their children, i will try to apply the these very basic genetics through reading books and articles from internet.

I dont know if i could conclude something or not but atleast it a fun thing

Thanks for the help


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

Your welcome, get yourself some of those blue bar, that will make it a lot easier when you cross i think


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

Print Tippler said:


> Your welcome, get yourself some of those blue bar, that will make it a lot easier when you cross i think


For this i have to catch some ferals, blue bars are not easily available here
I have a few racers,what about racing checkers? will it work?


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

Yeah, I thought Pakistani high flyers came in blue bars? Just rare?


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

This is an available racer pair and their offsprings


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