# Question of Starvation



## jdjd (Jun 10, 2007)

Is it true that the pigeon parents, if they have 2 babies of the same sex, will starve one of them? It didn't seem like anyone said anything about it, and I read the fostering thread...I don't know-im new to pigeons...lol So please help me out guys. My fantails are very young (Thats what my friend said) and this would be their 1st batch of young- will I need to watch and observe even closer then I was planning on?  (moving a portable bed outside by the loft -lol) No just kidding, but will she probably just lay one egg? If I take it away will the chances go up that she lays 2 the next time?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

jdjd said:


> Is it true that the pigeon parents, if they have 2 babies of the same sex, will starve one of them? ?



No...........no need to elaborate. That just doesn't happen. 

I


jdjd said:


> t didn't seem like anyone said anything about it, and I read the fostering thread...I don't know-im new to pigeons...lol So please help me out guys. My fantails are very young (Thats what my friend said) and this would be their 1st batch of young- will I need to watch and observe even closer then I was planning on?  (moving a portable bed outside by the loft -lol) No just kidding, but will she probably just lay one egg? If I take it away will the chances go up that she lays 2 the next time?


How old is you pair of fantails? I would not let them raise any youngsters until they are at least 10 months old.......a year old is better. I would also let them lay one set of eggs, replace with dummy eggs and make sure they sit on them for the full 19 days or longer. MOST pigeons are good parents, but there is the occassional pair that just can't get it right for what ever reason. You want to find that out BEFORE the babies.........not AFTER.  
Sometimes a young hen will only lay one egg, but it isn't THAT common. It's most common for the hens to lay two eggs, regardless of their age.........except an older hen. When they are just about through laying in thier life, you might get one last egg........


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

jdjd said:


> Is it true that the pigeon parents, if they have 2 babies of the same sex, will starve one of them? It didn't seem like anyone said anything about it, and I read the fostering thread...I don't know-im new to pigeons...lol So please help me out guys. My fantails are very young (Thats what my friend said) and this would be their 1st batch of young- will I need to watch and observe even closer then I was planning on?  (moving a portable bed outside by the loft -lol) No just kidding, but will she probably just lay one egg? If I take it away will the chances go up that she lays 2 the next time?


No, pigeon parents will not starve a baby because of its sex, however they will neglect it if they sense that it is sick. 

Pigeons can lay only one egg, but it has been my experience with my hens that they will lay one egg the very first time they lay, and 2 after that. Some hens do only lay one egg. Do not take any eggs away from them, taking the egg away doesn't guarantee they will lay 2 , but it will guarantee them laying too many too quickly and that isn't good for hens. Allow them to keep their egg until they either hatch it or grow tired of it.

Youngsters make better parents when they are a year old.


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## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

It is possible that she will just lay one egg the first time. Replace it with a dummy egg, or take it and hard boil it and return it to the nest. You don't want to let them raise babies until they are about a year old. Even though they can breed, they really need the maturity to care for the babies. A friend and long time breeder told me to always to let my first time breeding birds have a round of eggs before I let them raise babies.

I don't know about them starving one baby. I have had parents a couple of times that quit feeding one baby. Put the chick with a foster pair and no problem. They were not same sex chicks. The baby that was rejected grew up just fine without anything apparently wrong with it. She is mated now and lays eggs.

On the other hand, I was eager to breed a really nice young cock to a specific hen so I paired them ignoring the one year rule. She was an older bird, but he was only about 8 months old. The second day after the babies hatched, the cock threw the babies out of the nest. I had to take him out. She was fine and carried on without him. After a week, I put the babies under foster parents as the hen was really getting pretty worn out trying to feed both by herself. 

Margarret


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

I read somewhere (I wish I could put my finger on the reference but can't just now) that the survival rate for the first chick hatched is better than for the 2nd out of the clutch, just like for birds in general (or mammals for that matter). The "firstest with the mostest" wins especially if resources are limited. This is probably quite true with ferals, perhaps less so in a loft or aviary situation where baby progress can be monitored more closely. 

I don't think it's a matter of discriminating for the parents, it's a matter of competition between the babies. The stronger ones can position themselves better when it comes to feeding, squawk, yell, whatever for attention and so on. You can usually see that size differential when people post pictures of their new and growing babies. And that size can mean the difference for a new life, if no one is there to help the parents along should they need that assistance.

Follow everyone's advice about allowing the birds to get a bit of age on them before they have young. They don't have to reproduce to keep the species going, so allow them some time to fully mature and get strong so when the time is right, they will be better prepared to raise their chicks.

Good luck!


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## jdjd (Jun 10, 2007)

*Thank Goodness Its Not True!*

My pigeons are young thats all I know... so take the 1st batch out and put fake eggs in? Will they take to golf balls? I have no bantam sized/pigeon sized egg...I could go to Hobby Lobby and see what they have.... 

I've just always heard from my friends who have pigeons (just 2 people) that they won't raise same sexed babies...

Thanks everyone, agian you'ved helped me

John


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## pidgers'2006 (Jul 24, 2006)

Well you can also boil the eggs and place them back.


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## velo99 (Apr 8, 2007)

Robin sized wooden eggs from HL is what I use. Fantails can probably use one a size or two bigger. Wait til you feed them to change the eggs and they fly down to eat. Another time for an easy swap is when the cockbird is on the nest or at night. Put the egg in your pocket for a few minutes til it gets warm before you change the eggs. The hen will catch you and abandon the nest if you put a cold egg under her. 

The chick story is quite humorous. Sounds like someone wants to get some eggs/chicks from you or is pulling your leg.

U can get a pack of four for $1.35 You only need to use one, and for the sake of your breeeders wait til they are at least a year before you start actively breeding them.


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## jdjd (Jun 10, 2007)

Thanks so much you two, really helped. Specially about what time to replace the eggs Velo. Now, about the people telling me about the young- im not sure if they just had the smaller one die of starvation or what.... 

John


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## velo99 (Apr 8, 2007)

John 
I dont know. Thats a new one to me. I have heard a lot of ludicrous stuff thru the years. If it don`t make sense it is probably BS. 
They might mot have been feeding enough for the parents to keep both alive are a number of reasons,but without knowing more I am clueless.

I feed 4 pairs with young three cups of high quailty feed everyday and they eat about 98% of it.

g/l


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

jdjd said:


> Thanks so much you two, really helped. Specially about what time to replace the eggs Velo. Now, about the people telling me about the young- im not sure if they just had the smaller one die of starvation or what....
> 
> John


John, I'll tell you what I do when I'm breeding. Of course, I breed my birds in Jan, Feb and March and it's pretty darn cold, but this would work no matter what the weather. Most of your birds know, instinctively, that if they "sit" on the first egg, it will hatch before the second eggs does. Therefore, most of you birds will hover over the first egg and not sit tight until the second egg is laid. There are hens that will begin to sit tight on the first egg. That's why sometimes, there's so much time between the two babies hatching. They grow amazingly fast, so a baby hatched 24 hours after the first one is at a possible disadvantage from the very beginning. 
When I'm breeding, I check my hens every night. Anyone that lays.......I take that egg, mark it so that I know where it came from, and give her a dummy egg. In two days, when she lays her second egg, I give her first egg back to her. That way, the eggs are incubated the same amount of time and MOST of the time, the babies hatch within a couple of hours of each other. 
If she sits on the dummy egg, it's not hurting anything and if she doesn't sit on it, I don't have to worry about the egg freezing because the real one is in the house.


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## jdjd (Jun 10, 2007)

Velo, im not sure either...I really just think my freinds maid them selfs belive it? 

Renee, That is a GREAT way of preserving the eggs and perhaps making life easier on everyone at your loft. That is also what someone did in a post I read about Fostering


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## Pixy (Mar 29, 2005)

well guys... My pair of white homers hatched two eggs and today one of them died... I noticed that it wasnt getting fed that well two days ago but i thought the bigger one would get full and the smaller one would have a chance to eat? I really didnt want to take it away and try to hand feed i, i wanted it to grow up naturally. 
So today i went down to chage their nest and the smaller one was weak and when i grought it inside it started gasping fo air every coupel breaths. I noticed that it was a little cold on the skin so i warmed it up and fed it some warmed up mushed chick starter. A while later the gasping didnt stop and although it was warmed up, it still gasped and slowly died...
I am very upset about the loss as i had just banded them a day ago... Any suggestions on how to make sure that both babies survive? The other one is doing great and is very fat. Maybe when they are moved to a more clean environment with out a dirt floor like my new loft, the survival rate will be higher?Right now the babies are or were about a week and a half old... BUT when i went down to see my white baby homer that is matured now and likes to be held, It makes me happy rather than to be sad and think about the loss


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## jdjd (Jun 10, 2007)

Pixy said:


> well guys... My pair of white homers hatched two eggs and today one of them died... I noticed that it wasnt getting fed that well two days ago but i thought the bigger one would get full and the smaller one would have a chance to eat? I really didnt want to take it away and try to hand feed i, i wanted it to grow up naturally.
> So today i went down to chage their nest and the smaller one was weak and when i grought it inside it started gasping fo air every coupel breaths. I noticed that it was a little cold on the skin so i warmed it up and fed it some warmed up mushed chick starter. A while later the gasping didnt stop and although it was warmed up, it still gasped and slowly died...
> I am very upset about the loss as i had just banded them a day ago... Any suggestions on how to make sure that both babies survive? The other one is doing great and is very fat. Maybe when they are moved to a more clean environment with out a dirt floor like my new loft, the survival rate will be higher?Right now the babies are or were about a week and a half old... BUT when i went down to see my white baby homer that is matured now and likes to be held, It makes me happy rather than to be sad and think about the loss


Well, the little one just wasnt getting fed- the envirement really has nothing to do with it. If you want bigger go for it. Sorry for your loss.


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## jdjd (Jun 10, 2007)

Im glad the one baby is calm- that makes it so Its more of a win then loss. i would get out the smaller one next time and feed it a little untill you know both are healthy and fat.


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Sorry about the baby  . Unfortunately, the bigger babies can compete better for food and if you aren't careful the little ones won't be able to get enough to thrive or even survive. Even though your birds are domesticated there are inborn instincts that drive their parenting.

It varies by species, but chicks compete with each other for food. Very few species of birds lay only one egg. Most lay two or more eggs because it's a reasonable survival strategy (multiple chicks, some should survive). It's a refinement of this strategy, developed over millions of years, to stagger the hatching of the chicks so that at least some of the babies survive out of a clutch. In lean or harsh times, or if one parent disappears (if two normally raise the chicks), then having one chick that is stronger and can raise the bigger ruckus ensures that at least one has a chance. In some species, the first hatched will sometimes push the nestmates out of the nest. Nothing personal, just nature.

I like Lovebirds suggestions to syncronize the hatching. That way the babies are near the same size and the parents aren't so attracted to one over the other.


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## velo99 (Apr 8, 2007)

If you get a big/little chick combo going,it is an easy fix.
When you feed the parents take out the big chick til they feed the little one. Usually takes 20 minutes or less. I carry mine around in my hoodie pocket while I do other pigeon stuff. After a few days they should be on a little more even footing. No substitute for mothers milk. 
g/l


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## jdjd (Jun 10, 2007)

Yes, I do like Lovebirds idea also Flitsnowzoom. 

Velo, good idea too


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Velo's solution sounds good, and probably a lot of fun for the chick, too  ("Hoodie ride, oh boy! Look at me!!"  )


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## velo99 (Apr 8, 2007)

wait til you get a surprise 
And you know what two or three squeaks do best.


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Ohhh yah. Poopie in the pocket


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## jdjd (Jun 10, 2007)

flitsnowzoom said:


> Ohhh yah. Poopie in the pocket



LOL! Wow, that was a good laugh this morning!


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## Pixy (Mar 29, 2005)

Thanks guys for the suggestions. I am still trying to get the whole breeding thing down and the comments will help. This year i think things will be better, as i am more equiped with tips and facts. Pfft, i didnt even nkow you were supposed to give them a second nest until yesterday! And today i was sure to place another nest bowl next to the nest with the large squeeker in it. 
Thankyou!


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