# Found White DOVE 2 days ago- NOW SICK!



## esh13 (Sep 7, 2011)

Two days ago I was told about a white dove hanging around at my husbands landfill. I looked it up online and found out they do not live well in the wild. My brother and son went back to see if it was still there and it was so they brought it home. She seemed to be doing ok considering, just kinda fluttering around the yard and picking at the gravel in the yard and eating little pieces of bread crumbs we were feeding her. We made her a little place to stay and sleep temporarily in a plastic bin/tote. I purchased her some wild bird food with small seeds like millet etc. from the grocery store for that night and the next day (yesterday) went to Petco and got her some grit and mite and lice spray. She has/had what looked like little dashes all over her. She really seemed to have a lot of those. I don't know anything about birds, I do know they carry mites but this just seemed quite excessive. Plus, if she's going to be an indoor pet of course we want her to be clean, comfortable and free of bugs. I decided to try to keep her, something about her just feels right and read they are pretty easy pets to keep. She doesn't try to fly out of her tote and I thought maybe she was just in a bit of shock and trying to adjust but I take her out and set her down on the ground and she doesn't move from there at all. She stays puffed up all the time. She was eating pretty good and pooping plenty but as I watch her today it seems she may not be eating as much as she was and she is still just sitting there. We really do not have a lot of money right now to bring her to a vet, with all the experiences I've had bringing my dogs and cats it's always at least a hundred dollars or more to treat small ailments. I have lots of left over human antibiotics and I know what dosage each pill is. If anybody has any idea if I should crush part of one up and try to feed it to her. I have cephalexin, bactrim, amoxicillin, just to name a few. Of course I know she can't have a 500 mg pill but maybe a tiny sliver of one, would be like 25mg or 50. Any help on what I could do would be great. I'm really worried about her now and I would love to keep her but I feel bad that I can't afford to take her to the vet.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Thanks for helping this little one out, I don't like the sound of the fluffing up, decrease in appetite and lethargy. I myself would start this little one on the Bactrim you have (Trimethoprim/Sulfa) if you tell me the strength I can give you instructions on how to mix and dose it. Do you think you could post a photo of this guy and is there any way you can you weight her? Here's how to post photos: http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=525049&postcount=15 .Please do not give her any free access going forward to outside.

You can pick up a caged bird lice & mite spray at almost any pet store, here is what you want: http://www.petco.com/product/102342/8-in-1-Ultra-Care-Mite-And-Lice-Bird-Spray.aspx , just a note that if you don't get this brand, any brand you do get should be pyrethrins based (a natural, safer insecticide). Just cover her face/head and spray her all ove,r and under her wings as well, most times one application should do the trick.

Good luck with her,

Karyn


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## esh13 (Sep 7, 2011)

The Bactrim tabs say this "SMZ-TMP DS TAB (sub for BACTRIM DS TABLET)" and when I look it up on pill wizard it says they are Sulfamethoxazole and trimethoprim DS 800 mg / 160 mg.

I just took a couple pictures and I will upload now. Give me just a second.
Thank you so much for your help!


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## esh13 (Sep 7, 2011)

Here are pictures of her.

Her name is Dovey Franklin.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Any chance of a weight for her? I am not getting a good feel for her weight from the photos.

Karyn


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## esh13 (Sep 7, 2011)

I have no way of weighing her I am sorry.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Here are your instructions for the Bactrim, as she certainly does look under the weather. I want you to take one of the Bactrim (Trimethoprim/Sulfa) tablets and cut it evenly in half, and put 1/2 away. The other 1/2 I want you to grind into as very fine a powder as you can, I use a shot-glass and the end of a kitchen knife the has a rounded end on it. After it is finely ground/powdered, I want you to add into this powder 10mL of either pancake syrup of honey (10mL = 2 teaspoons, but you must use measuring spoon used for baking, scape spoon out well). Stir the powdered Trimethoprim/Sulfa and syrup together well, cover and let sit 20 minutes, stir well again and you will have a 4.8% Bactrim suspension to dose this little one with.

I want you to dose her 0.25cc (12mg), this is to the middle of the first and second lines on the 1cc syringe and for reference will be about 5 drops of medicine. If you do not have a syringe, you can use an eye dropper and give the suspension (5 drops). Whether it is with a syringe, or an eye dropper, you will place one drop at a time into her mouth and let her tongue the medicine down. Keep in the refrigerator between use, and stir well each time you use it, You can get a 1cc syringe, the kind without an attached needle, at any drug store, the eyedropper if just a fill-in, please get a 1cc syringe to be precise.

She looks thin through the chest area, so I am thinking 250-300g give or take. The dose I just gave will be fine, but best we get it exact and to do this we need a weight for her, any friends, family neighbors with a kitchen scale you could borrow for a minute?


Karyn


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## esh13 (Sep 7, 2011)

I'll go grind the pill now and add it with the syrup. I have to run by pharmacy to pick up medicine for myself and while I'm there I will quickly grab a 1cc syringe. I will look around to see if they might have a little kitchen scale that I can purchase there. Thank you so much. I will let you know if I can get a weight.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

esh13 said:


> I'll go grind the pill now and add it with the syrup. I have to run by pharmacy to pick up medicine for myself and while I'm there I will quickly grab a 1cc syringe. I will look around to see if they might have a little kitchen scale that I can purchase there. Thank you so much. I will let you know if I can get a weight.


OK, but get the dose I suggested into her and we can make adjustments with her next dose, if we know her true weight, as I think it's important she get on the meds ASAP and the dose I suggest will be safe for a broad range of weights, will be back in a few hours.

Karyn


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## esh13 (Sep 7, 2011)

I used a medicine dropper I had here from when the kids were little and safely got 5 drops in her. Thank you so much. I'm running to the pharmacy now and then we can talk about how often she needs the medicine and for how many days.


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## esh13 (Sep 7, 2011)

I was able to buy a kitchen scale and she weighs exactly 7 oz. I also got a 1 ml insulin syringe from the pharmacist.


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## esh13 (Sep 7, 2011)

Is she a ringneck dove or a homing pigeon? I can't figure it out.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

OK, glad you got a weight on her, she is lighter than I thought, she weighs about 200g, so we are going to adjust down the dose, from 0.25cc (12mg, 5 drops), down to 0.20cc (9.6mg, 4 drops, second line on a 1cc syringe) for her doses going forward, and actually many times it's good to get a bit more meds into them on the first dose, called a loading dose, when starting. You will dose her every 12 hours and she will be on meds about 10 days.

Can you take a few more photos of her a little further back, I was having trouble making her out well in the prior photos, I'll ask another member to have a look and see what she thinks.

I was a bit rushed before so a few more questions; any sign of wounds or scraps on her (give her a good going over, taking your time to part her feathers), can you have a look inside her mouth and tell us if you see any growths (should be clear with pinkish/red tissue), can you also post up a photo of her fresh droppings (poop), what exactly are you feeding her?

Karyn


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## esh13 (Sep 7, 2011)

I am feeding her some store brand wild bird food. I put it in a container with a lid so I threw away the package but I know it consisted of millet seed and others. At petco I got her some Kaytee hi-cal grit. She has a lot of little dash looking bugs all over her. I sprayed her yesterday with UltraCare Mite and Lice bird spray. It didn't seem to do much good so I sprayed her again a couple hours ago. It says to only use a few sprays at a time and no more than twice a week but I was wondering if you think I could spray her again as upon further examination to check for wounds I see that she still has them EVERYWHERE. I checked her and saw no visible wounds or scrapes but she does have a protruding rib cage. The inside of her mouth has no growths but appears pale pink. I will post new pictures in just a few minutes.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Did you spray under her wings, as this is their favorite hideout? If the wild bird seed has large items like whole corn, whole peas and sunflower seeds, I want to to take the time to remove these and leave the smaller food items for now. Does the scale you picked up have a button to go to grams on it, as best we weigh her in grams, it's a little more precise and I would like you to weigh her each day, for the next little while, to monitor her weight.

Karyn


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## esh13 (Sep 7, 2011)

This is a photo showing her next to a key and chap stick and some fresh droppings.


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## esh13 (Sep 7, 2011)

sorry I didn't realize the dropping picture was so blurry but it's pretty watery as you can see.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

esh13 said:


> sorry I didn't realize the dropping picture was so blurry but it's pretty watery as you can see.


Again, she really does look like she is ill, glad you had some meds on hand to start treatment, I am hoping we caught her in time. I actually prefer seeing a dropping looking wet to moist when they are ill, as at least I know they are getting fluids into themselves, which is important. The medicine she started, the Trimethoprim/Sulfa is quite a good medicine for a number of types of infections that can make them ill. The one thing, because she is so light, that may be an issue, or even a co-infection, is the possibility she could have a worm infection (this requires a different type of medicine to cure). If she does not look a bit better in about 48h, I wanted to put on your mind that she may need a fecal exam done, this test will look for worm eggs in her droppings. Many vets will do a fecal exam, without having to see a bird, and they may cost $35, give or take a bit. I know you said things are tight right now for a vet, but I wanted to put this on your mind.

Would you happen to have a heating pad around the house, the kind without an auto-shut-off?

Karyn


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

As for what kind of pigeon this is, it's more than likely a mix. A homer or roller mix perhaps. They don't usually have feathered legs but it does occur in both breeds. Of course it is kinda hard to tell when the poor thing is all fluffed up. Could be a highflier as those wings are pretty long. She is definitely stressed out if nothing else. Could just be starving and hurt rather than an actual disease. Those things alone take a lot out of a bird. But it's best to be on the safe side.


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## esh13 (Sep 7, 2011)

Hi guys! Sorry to take so long to reply back. I am also a mother of three boys so I have carpool, dinner, football practice and everything else.  Believe it or not she does seem to be getting even just a touch bit better. My son was teasing her that he was going to take some of her seeds and she kept taking the seeds out of his hands and lightly biting his fingers. Awwww, what a sweetie she is! I just love her. Yes my scale does grams and ounces I am just more used to lbs and oz which is why I was looking at that but for now on I'll look at the grams which yes, that would be 200. I hope we caught whatever it is on time too, whether it be starvation or a bacteria and I will put in my budget for a fecal. I will call around to see if a vet could do that for me. Believe it or not my sister is a veterinarian I just have not been able to get a hold of her as she just moved out of state (Georgia) and is doing her internship at UCdavis in California! She is actually a vet pathologist so she deals with them more when they are dead unfortunately. I may be able to get some contacts from her for the fecal though. Dobato thank you so much for your kindness, patience, and concern I will give her another dose very early tomorrow morning then weigh her and report back to you. And MaryofExeter, wow, I never would have thought that she could be a mix. I have never heard of a roller I'll have to look it up. 
Oh, I do have a heating pad, not to confident about it's safety, I should have thrown it away years ago but if I had a working one what would you recommend I do with it?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Becky, thanks a lot for your input on just what type/mix of pigeon this little one may be, I always admire how good at this you are . 

Esh13, one of the things that can happen when they get run down, the way this little one seems to be, is that weakens them, opening them up to a whole range of opportunistic infections to take hold, that might not get a grip on a stronger bird, so I do think it wise we that we started her on some meds.

With the heating pad, when weak and feeling ill, these guys are not unlike us, they want a nice warm place to rest, fluids and some food of their choosing. By providing her with some supplemental heat, by using a heating pad, we can help her conserve her energy for trying to get better and instead of using a good deal of her food calories/energy, just trying to maintain body heat. You would set the pad to the LOW setting (only LOW) fold a towel on top and place it in where she is being kept and she'll know what to do. You must arrange things so that there is enough room in her box/cage/carrier for her to move off the warmth when she likes, if she wants a break from it.

We'll, your sister could do the fecal in her sleep , and she may be able to point you in the right direction of getting one done on the cheap. I know about how life can pull you a lot of directions at once, so no worries there .

Also, the seed and water dishes you use for her should be at least 1" deep, especially for the water, a lot of us here use ramekins, like in this link, while they are in "hospital": http://www.kaboodle.com/reviews/individual-ramekin-dishes

Karyn


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

The bird looks like a roller and is roller size. They have little homing skill which would explain why she was unable to find her way home.
For future...each ounce is approximately 28.4 grams.


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## esh13 (Sep 7, 2011)

I gave her her medicine this morning and weighed her and I'm sad to report she weighs 190 grams. I'm going to continue to try to coax her to eat.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

esh13 said:


> I gave her her medicine this morning and weighed her and I'm sad to report she weighs 190 grams. I'm going to continue to try to coax her to eat.


Esh, glad she is hanging in there. Do you think you could pick her up a small container of Kaytee hand feeding formula and I will give you instructions how to make it up for a very easy way to supplement her by hand? Most bigger pet stores carry, it looks like this:

http://www.amazon.com/Kaytee-Exact-Feeding-Formula-Birds/dp/B0002DGJH8

Karyn


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## esh13 (Sep 7, 2011)

Yes I can. I just called PetSmart in the next town over and they have some in stock. I will head out in just a few minutes. BTW, I went ahead and put her on the heating pad, she's sleeping on it now.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

esh13 said:


> Yes I can. I just called PetSmart in the next town over and they have some in stock. I will head out in just a few minutes. BTW, I went ahead and put her on the heating pad, she's sleeping on it now.


Sounds good, the heat pad will be of good comfort to her .

Karyn


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## esh13 (Sep 7, 2011)

Ok, I am back with the hand feeding formula.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

That was fast .

What we want to do is to gently supplement her using the Kaytee to make some formula balls to make it easy. To save some typing , here is a link to another active thread where I gave the instructions. I want you to start with 5 balls three times a day today and let's see how that goes, we may leave things the same or slightly increase them tomorrow. When they get emaciated like this little one is, too much food too soon can actually have the opposite effect desired, so we will slowly ease up on her. Make sure she always has water close by, and seeds as well (no large food items, as mentioned earlier).

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=605328&postcount=33

You can read the whole thread by clicking on the top, right hand corner link.

Karyn


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## esh13 (Sep 7, 2011)

I got them down her. I had a bit harder time than the lady in the video, she kept spitting them out, but we got five down.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

esh13 said:


> I got them down her. I had a bit harder time than the lady in the video, she kept spitting them out, but we got five down.


They are a little harder to do because they are soft, if you have help, one can gently open her beak then "pop"/drop the ball (nice round ball) as far back in her mouth as you can, and she will swallow. It will get easier after you do it a few times, for both of you .

Karyn


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## esh13 (Sep 7, 2011)

Well bless you Karyn. I see how busy you are on here helping all the little pigeons out. I will henceforth refer to you as The Fairy Godmother of Pigeons. )))

If you don't mind me asking, how do you know so much about pigeons?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Esh, like many here, I have had birds for many years, so I have picked up some knowledge along the way. Every day I feel I still have a lot to learn and this board has been helpful in that regard. There are lots of old posts, from people who are no longer active on the forum, with a wealth of knowledge on pigeons for those interested. Plus, we are fortunate enough to have Pidgey still around when all else fails .

Karyn


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## esh13 (Sep 7, 2011)

I gave her her last 5 pellets for the day and her medicine. I weighed her and she is still 190 grams. I'm hoping the antibiotics will start really kicking in tomorrow and we can start seeing a noticeable improvement.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

I want you to post up a photo of her latest droppings, it may take a few days for the meds to start to show some affects, I want you to try her at 5 balls, 4 times tomorrow. We are going to have to be patient with her, it took her sometimes to get like she is, and it will take some time to help her make her way back. Any word on someone to run a fecal?

Karyn


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## esh13 (Sep 7, 2011)

Yes, I am waiting on two call backs now for the fecal. Ones far away but the other one is right here close in my town. It's amazing how much of an ordeal it is when you tell them it's a pigeon. I got two that didn't treat them at all. Fresh dropping photos coming soon, that will hopefully be the one I use for the fecal too.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

esh13 said:


> Yes, I am waiting on two call backs now for the fecal. Ones far away but the other one is right here close in my town. It's amazing how much of an ordeal it is when you tell them it's a pigeon. I got two that didn't treat them at all. Fresh dropping photos coming soon, that will hopefully be the one I use for the fecal too.


In the future, you can call your little one a Dove, for these purposes, as they used to be called Rock Doves (new name Rock Pigeons ), and a vet does not have to really even treat a lot of birds to do a fecal, as the same internal parasites that affect cats and dogs are found in birds.

Karyn


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## esh13 (Sep 7, 2011)

OMG, I got one of the call backs I was waiting for who said they can not treat a pigeon I just found and only could treat it if it's been mine for "years and years" they literally said that.  That's the one that's far away, hopefully we'll have more luck on the closer one I would rather go to anyway.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

esh13 said:


> OMG, I got one of the call backs I was waiting for who said they can not treat a pigeon I just found and only could treat it if it's been mine for "years and years" they literally said that.  That's the one that's far away, hopefully we'll have more luck on the closer one I would rather go to anyway.


Please just say it is a Dove and has been your pet for a very long time, sometimes we just have to do, what we have to do, for the better good.

Karyn


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

yes you have to say your pet dove or rock dove..and you have had him for a few years... This is a domestic pet bird and that is all there is too it..


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## esh13 (Sep 7, 2011)

Ok, if this one says no then the next ones I call I will call her a "rock dove". I'm still so confused as to what she is and how to differentiate between doves and pigeons.
It doesn't matter to me I still love her just the same of course. Actually someone on here commented that she may be a roller. I looked that up and was awestruck! If she is, I'm definitely going to have to teach her how to do that when she gets better! 

BTW- got the call back, they said yes. One was 135 and the other was 30. I opted for the 30 dollar one for now which checks for worms, eggs, and I think they said other parasites.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

esh13 said:


> Ok, if this one says no then the next ones I call I will call her a "rock dove". I'm still so confused as to what she is and how to differentiate between doves and pigeons.
> It doesn't matter to me I still love her just the same of course. Actually someone on here commented that she may be a roller. I looked that up and was awestruck! If she is, I'm definitely going to have to teach her how to do that when she gets better!
> 
> BTW- got the call back, they said yes. One was 135 and the other was 30. I opted for the 30 dollar one for now which checks for worms, eggs, and I think they said other parasites.


Yes, it should be about $30, this is fair and in the price range for this testing, with her pure white color, I would just say Dove and leave it at that . For all intense purposes Doves and Pigeons are basically the same, just different branches of the of the Columbiform family of birds.


Karyn


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## esh13 (Sep 7, 2011)

*Franklin's recent poop*

Just got back from taking the droppings to the vet. They said they do have a lab but they don't deal with birds often so they wouldn't know what to look for so they have to send it off. They normally get the results back the next day but since today is Friday they won't be back until Monday.  I asked the receptionist if in fact she does have worms do they sell the medicine thereto treat it. She said she didn't know and was going to ask the vet but I said don't worry about it we can cross that bridge when we get there and I can probably always get it online.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Forgive me in advance if you've already said...but where are you located?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Esh, they would be looking for the same worm eggs from some of the same type of worms that infect dogs and cats, as well as cocci oocytes (which also infects cats and dogs), which is pretty basic stuff. The medicine she is currently on will actually treat for coccidiosis, but not worms, that's part of the reason we want a fecal screen. They will have meds on hand to treat a worm infection, some more aggressive than others, if by chance they say she does have worms, and it happens to be round worms (the most common worm pigeons get) tell them you would like to try Pyrantel Pamoate as the treatment drug, IMO, the gentlest of the de-wormers for round worms, and gentle right now is important with her condition, do not let them give her Panacur (Fenbendazole or Albendazole aka-Albenza/Valbazen ). Keep doing what you are doing, get the Kaytee balls into her, make sure small seeds and water is always close at hand for her and her droppings look moist, with not too bad a solid content, which is good.

Karyn


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## esh13 (Sep 7, 2011)

ok, I'll ask for that when they call me back on Monday if it's positive for worms. Yes I'm trying to keep her well hydrated. I sometimes think she is not getting enough water so I give her some with the dropper.
I am in the Atlanta area.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

esh13 said:


> ok, I'll ask for that when they call me back on Monday if it's positive for worms. Yes I'm trying to keep her well hydrated. I sometimes think she is not getting enough water so I give her some with the dropper.
> I am in the Atlanta area.


You can supplement with the eye dropper, but when doing so have her in your lap, wrapped in a small towel, lower you knees so her head is tiled down and then dribble the water a few drops at a time to the side of her beak. You want her her tilted downward so that any water she does not swallow runs out and not down her throat where it could go down her windpipe and cause us trouble. FYI, you can give her quite a few drops at a time, as it takes 20 drops to make 1mL and when I recommend giving water by eye dropper, I most times suggest to try for 4-5mL a few times a day (so lots of drops ), take your time and don't rush her and be careful, but you seem like you have things under control.

Karyn


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## esh13 (Sep 7, 2011)

Franklin passed away at 10:15 pm. Thank you very much Karin for everything and to everyone else who cared, commented and listened. I'm just heart broken right now. All I can say is she began having labored breathing and before I could even scream for my husband to help me and hand her to him so I could look online and figure out what the hell was going on she was gone.
Thank you all so much again. <3


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Esh, I am just heartbroken to hear this news, I thought while there were some problems, I thought we may have had a good chance at bringing Franklin back. Thank you for trying so hard for this little one, and please accept my sincerest condolences for your loss, I will keep you both in my thoughts and prayers, bless you.

Karyn


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