# Dilute gene



## Skogsdua (Apr 15, 2016)

Hi there 

Ash red (carrying dilute) cock x blue hen giving me an ash red cock split for blue, carrying dilute. 
This cock mated to a dilute hen could give me both ash red cocks and ash red hens. And all the cocks will also carry dilute? If he was mated to an ash red hen though, would all the ash red cocks born after that couple still carry dilute, or would the chain of dilution gen then be broken?

Just curious


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## Chuck K (Jan 12, 2013)

Skogsdua said:


> Hi there
> 
> Ash red (carrying dilute) cock x blue hen giving me an ash red cock split for blue, carrying dilute.
> This cock mated to a dilute hen could give me both ash red cocks and ash red hens. And all the cocks will also carry dilute? If he was mated to an ash red hen though, would all the ash red cocks born after that couple still carry dilute, or would the chain of dilution gen then be broken?
> ...


Your first pairing will result in Ash Red cocks carrying dilute and blue, but not all of the Ash Red cocks will carry dilute. You will get approximately a 30% cross over rate from the original cock, which means the dilute will be crossed over to the blue side. With a crossover Ash Red cocks that do not carry dilute will also be produced, but usually at a low percentage.

If the second generation Ash Red cock carries dilute, when you pair it to a dilute hen you will get Ash Yellow Cocks, Ash Yellow hens, Ash Red cocks carrying dilute, and Ash Red Hens. In a addition due to crossover of dilute to the blue side you will get a few silver hens, and a few Ash red and Ash Yellow cocks that carry dilute linked to blue.

I think what you want to know is can dilute be lost in the shuffle. The answer is yes. If you use an Ash Red cock bird from your original pairing where dilute as crossed over to blue that cock bird will be carrying the normal wild type gene at the dilute locus. You will only restore dilute to the mix with the addition of the dilute hen. You will only be able to spot these cocks with breeding tests. They will never throw a dilute hen (yellow or silver), and since the percentage of dilute hens is only 25% it may take quite a few rounds of young to be certain he doesn't carry dilute. The only way to be certain your cock birds carry dilute is if they are produced from a dilute hen or a dilute cock bird.


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## Skogsdua (Apr 15, 2016)

Thank you for your good answer  
I have a couple of ash red cocks who uptil now only have thrown me ash red youngsters. They are still young though, and have only had two rounds in the nest so far so not much of a statestics yet  I'll keep an eye on them and see what happens.

I have to add a photo of the firstborn from the second generation from the example above. This is the offspring of an ash red cock split for blue and dilute, paired to an ash yellow grizzle


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Cute bird!


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## Skogsdua (Apr 15, 2016)

Thanks  Very happy for a new color in my loft, I have to many ash reds


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## Chuck K (Jan 12, 2013)

Nice blue grizzle. It will be interesting to see if more white comes in with the adult molt. I have seen young blue grizzles molt to a near stork-mark. That one has the dark flights and dark tail so the potential is there. I think the stork-mark birds are beautiful.

I had a blue roller cock bird that retained that grizzle look even as an adult. He showed a lot more of the bar through. That little bird from the paring you described will be a hen. If you Ash Red cock bird does have dilute you will get some yellows, but if you have some luck and breed from him long enough you might get a silver grizzle. They are very nice looking birds too.


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## Skogsdua (Apr 15, 2016)

Hm, interesting  What makes you think she is a blue grizzle and not a silver grizzle? I'm just curious, and want to learn.. She was born with very little down fuss, so I reconed she had to be a dilute  

Took some pictures of her wings and tail today, so you can have a better look if you please


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## Chuck K (Jan 12, 2013)

*Silver (dilute blue) vs wild type blue*

If she was short downed in the nest, she may well be a silver. Dilute is one of the few things that create short downed youngsters. In the pictures the blue in her flights looks darker than I am used to seeing but that could lighten with the adult molt.

The bird below is what I usually see in regards to a true silver. Notice how light colored the flights can get. If I remember correctly there are a couple of factors that can darken the shade of the flights even in dilute birds. The second pic is a blue bar for comparison.


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## Skogsdua (Apr 15, 2016)

Thanks for the pictures and the explanation  I know I've read somewhere what you say, so I'll try to find back to that page of what else can make the pigeons be born with short fuss. I think though when I read about it that nothing else than dilute fittet to the genetics I think I have in my pigeons. But then again, I did not know the original ash red cock in my example (this youngsters granddad  did carry dilute before he and his blue/black mate threw me some yellow hens.. 
I find the genetics very interesting, but I still question a lot. There are so much to understand and take in consideration, and then when someone explains something it's often just so obvious  Noone around me keeping pigeons are knowing or spesific interested in how the genetics of color works, so I have noone to discuss with either. I'm so happy for finding this forum!


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## Skogsdua (Apr 15, 2016)

Anyway, I'll post a picture after her molt, maybe you're right and she will lighten up. She was born 27 of July, so only about 3 weeks in these pictures


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