# Pigeon Fancier's Lung



## Emmastaff (Sep 24, 2011)

I had never heard of this until now. I have a cockatiel and my recently acquired woe tumbler. I planned to keep the pigeon indoors. Will I be putting my young children (ages 2 & 5 ) at risk with these two dust producing birds in the house? Neither child currently has a problem with asthma or anything, but I am feeling a bit paranoid after realizing I'll be keeping two very dusty birds in my house 
I am not as worried about myself as I recently was tested and I am not allergic to anything! unusual eh? But I don't want to put my young kids at risk of developing a chronic condition. Any other bird owning parents out there?


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## orock (Mar 28, 2011)

It will be a good idea to keep the Pigeon outside. But if you must keep it inside you should invest in a good air filter.


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## Print Tippler (May 18, 2011)

It's not called pigeon fanciers lung, it's called fanciers lung, so your pheromone bird could also be just as bad. You can get it from any bird, but this is not something common for someone with one bird. The people who normally et is are people who clean a loft of many birds after many years like 30. Also your bird looks more like some kind of saxxon than a WOE. it may look somewhat similar but not he same.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

I agree with the others.

Its mostly caused from the dust from scraping up dry bird droppings, so whoever is cleaning up after the birds has the (very remote) chance of getting it , whether the birds are inside or outside. If the kids aren't cleaning up after the birds, I don't see how they could get affected. As a precaution, you can spray mist the droppings with diluted disinfectant before cleaning them up ((to get rid of the dust), and wear a mask if you're cleaning up a lot of dry droppings..


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## beatlemike (Nov 28, 2009)

Most pigeons love baths. If you provided a dish or bowl with some water in it ,it would most likely bathe every couple of days and also cut down the feather dust. This is more of a question than a answer. Is this a true statement?


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## Emmastaff (Sep 24, 2011)

I do run an air filter by the cockatiel cage currently.


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

I suffer from Pgeon Lung Disease. I am familiar with all aspects of this disease and have studied upon on it extensively. I even participated in studies about the disease at the University of Wisconsin.

I won't go into the details of this disease as it would take three or four pages to adequately explain all of the ramifications concerning it. I will just highlight a few things.

I would not keep pigeons in my home. Nor cockatiels, nor Cockatoos. Those three are the worst for creating the "bloom" (powder on their feathers).

Pigeon Lung Disease affects everyone differently. Just like cocaine does. Some can handle it well for many years. Some can die from it immediately. But the vast majority of people do "okay" with it, unless or until they get a very large dose of it. Such as cleaning a loft.

It is an acquired allergy. The more exposure you get over time, the more it affects you. So, if you get very small amounts over time, AND, you are one of those unlucky people that is very sensitive to it. You could end up very ill and possibly die. But there are many people that have kept cockatiels "forever" and not suffered much.

I have went to the hospital in an ambulance twice. Both times the ambulance personnel thought I was having cardiac arrest. But it was Pigeon Lung Disease. They treated me with steroids. Much like if I get stung by a wasp, as I am allergic to those also. Pigeon Lung Disease is a hyper-sensitive allergy.

It is not something you can get from being in a public square where there are a lot of pigeons flying around. But you CAN get it from a closed area such as a pet shop, home or bird fair in a building. Or especially in a pigeon loft. Whether you are cleaning the loft or not. If the birds are still, sitting on perches, it aint so bad. But if the birds are flying or flapping their wings inside a loft, it will make you sick. But sick to a different degree for everyone. Some not noticeable and some deathly ill. Most just get "bothered" by it.

The first signs are flu like symptons that show up about five hours after being exposed to the dust. Then trembles and feeling like you are dying. But by morning you feel normal. I have been through it many times.

But I must say again. Everyone is not affected like me. I wear an approved mask (not one of those surgery room type things), when I am in an enclosed area with pigeons. I only have three options. Give up the pigeons, wear the mask, or die.

I do not try to interest my grandson in keeping pigeons. Nor did I with my three sons who are adults now. I do not let my wife into my lofts. Why whould I take a chance with them, just for my hobby?

It is gambling with your children. They could be like me, or they could be like the many that don't suffer much at all. But I have never known a long time pigeon keeper that hasn't felt sick after cleaning their loft, sometimes or all of the time.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

The main source of it is actually from the birds "bloom" (the dust from the feathers) rather than the droppings, and is more hazardous with a lot of birds in a confined space (i.e. within a loft).
A couple of birds in a house would really have negligable effect assuming all inhabitants were otherwise healthy & had no breathing ailments in the first instance.


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## Hatokiss (Sep 17, 2011)

How do i make a post for people to help me decide what kind of bird i have?????


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

We have quite a few birds in the house (4 ringneck doves, 4 diamond doves, 2 budgies, 2 zebra finches.) I just use a Honeywell HEPA air filter and don't have any problems. My sister even used to be asthmatic and she does fine with 4 birds in her room. 

It really depends who you are. If you're worried, you could always have your pediatrician do a prick test or whatever it's called to test for bird allergies. 

Also, if you let your birds bathe a lot and only keep two and do not keep them in bedrooms I don't see a lot of danger. I've had dusty birds like my old tiel or my doves in my room since I was 4 years old.

At the same time, if you have very allergy prone/weak immune kids/asthmatic, maybe seriously at least test them and get a HEPA filter. (Not the kind that releases ozone--that's actually rather toxic.)


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## Emmastaff (Sep 24, 2011)

Thanks for the input everyone. I do tend to freak out when I read stuff like that. Taking a deep breath now, and trying to put it in perspective.  I have the birds downstairs, everyone sleeps upstairs. So they are not near sleeping areas. The area they are in is hardwood floors, and i vacuum + dust everyday. I will start wiping the cages down with a damp cloth every day too, to pick up any dander. Already had a HEPA filter running right next to the cockatiel cage from the beginning. ( I knew they were dusty birds). My kids are not asthmatic or anything. I will keep an eye on things and try not to freak out.
This is why I vetted the bird right away, I was reading about all the parasites and diseases they can carry. Sometimes the internet is good, and sometimes it can make you paranoid as well. LOL


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Emmastaff said:


> Thanks for the input everyone. I do tend to freak out when I read stuff like that. Taking a deep breath now, and trying to put it in perspective.  I have the birds downstairs, everyone sleeps upstairs. So they are not near sleeping areas. The area they are in is hardwood floors, and i vacuum + dust everyday. I will start wiping the cages down with a damp cloth every day too, to pick up any dander. Already had a HEPA filter running right next to the cockatiel cage from the beginning. ( I knew they were dusty birds). My kids are not asthmatic or anything. I will keep an eye on things and try not to freak out.
> This is why I vetted the bird right away, I was reading about all the parasites and diseases they can carry. Sometimes the internet is good, and sometimes it can make you paranoid as well. LOL


As far as bird parasites/diseases go it is very difficult to actually get diseases from birds--so don't worry about that. Disease transmits much better mammal-to-mammal. This is partly because your dog or cat (or the neighbor kid) has a much closer avg body temperature to a human than a bird does. You can get strep throat, rabies, the flu, ticks, fleas, etc from a dog. 

A lot of paranoia is spread by exterminators because they get a lot of money from killing/keeping away pigeons and other birds.

However, birdkeeper's lung is a legitimate disease and it is good that you are doing your research. I just doubt that unless there are previous issues that two birds in the basement on hard wood will hurt anybody. 

I think you'll be fine with them so far from sleeping quarters on a wood floor with a good cleaning regimen. Especially if you guys aren't particularly allergy prone.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Hatokiss said:


> How do i make a post for people to help me decide what kind of bird i have?????


Go here: http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f5/

Click "new thread"

Type the new thread and submit it.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

It's funny I read this post this morning because I woke up choking again! That damn CAT! LOL I never had allergies when I was younger, I started getting them in my 30's, you can acquire them at any time.
I have 6 birds in my livingroom, including 1 Mollucan Cockatoo, 3 lofts with over 100 birds outside, 2 dogs and 3 cats. Have had animals and birds my whole life. I am allergic to 1 CAT in my house...my siamese. And he is the one that insists on sneaking into bed with me. I take allergy medicine, and the birds get sprayed/bathe regularly, and they don't bother me at all. But if I wake up with 'Kato' curled up next to me....... I wake up choking!


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## Emmastaff (Sep 24, 2011)

I don't know if it is true, but I've heard that siamese are worse for allergies than other cat breeds. My Dad is very allergic to cats and swears siamese are worse for him. The birds are not in the basement, but on the first level of our colonial house. The bedrooms are upstairs. The basement seems to damp a place for me to keep birds.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Conditionfreak*, 

That was an interesting post. Mostly because it was written by someone who has the disease and can specify his individual symptoms. I thought it was informative and objective.

Your perspective is a bit different from one who is merely afraid, afraid of getting sick from something or other because of some partially-remembered facts or non-facts or poorly-formed opinions passed on by acquaintances.

*Emmastaff*,

Conditionfreak is not the only PT member who has some negative effects from being around pigeons. I know of several others. It seems that although their bodies may suffer from one thing or another, their intense love of pigeons doesn't. 

I was born with CF, have bronchiectasis since 1964, and around thirty percent lung capacity. I am more or less somewhat aware of the dangers of being around pigeons. (I have to accept the fact that thickheadedness prevents greater awareness and understanding. I will fudge some facts in order to be around pigeons. Such as, standing around in sub-zero weather for hours while scrutinizing a needy pigeon isn't any risk to my health, while my carrying the garbage bag to the basement or outside, instead of my wife doing the job, is). I've rescued many pigeons, helped some of those and failed to help some of them, kept a few, one at a time. My doctor didn't see any danger from me being around a few at time, as long as I kept things clean. This is my conjecture, but he may have also figured it was good for my health, since I was so enthusiastic when I told him about my rescues, and the baby pigeons I raised to adulthood and released. 

There are many risks in life. Some are easy to avoid. Most risks I avoid out of sheer laziness. Couch potatoes and computer nerds, for example, don't fall off cliffs. Most of my injuries would be from tongue-lashings from my wife, and since she is such a good-natured person, I can't recall a single instance. My memory for trivia is still pretty good; for important stuff, so-so. 

I've spent nights lying awake, worrying and anxious about some sick pigeon at hand that needed something I may or may not have thought about or been able to provide. Some made it, some didn't. I rejoiced in the ones that did, and tried to appreciate the significance of those who didn't. There were two rescues I brought to the _Taubenklinik_ Essen (pigeon clinic in Essen, Germany), where they were successfully treated _for free_ by the head doctor. Squeaker pigeon *Deuce von Duisburg* had his right leg amputated at the hip, and pigeon *Rosie* (from _Rosauerplatz_, Cologne), had her right wing amputated. Both went to live with a rehabber who could care for them.

I think that it is easy to be unaware of, or to overlook hardly-visible and microscopic threats. As time passes, our accumulated experiences lead us to feel more threatened by them and perhaps become paranoid, or to feel less threatened and accept them and perhaps become lackadaisical. I don't feel too threatened from the occasional pigeon rescue I come across. My latest rescue, *Eight-thirty*, a rock dove squeaker rescued August 30th, has spent the past few nights away from home and comes by two or three times daily. Still squeaking, but fully-feathered. I had to get up at eight-thirty instead of my usual eleven o'clock in the morning to feed him. Lost some sleep, but well worth the effort.

Wish all of you the best,

Larry


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I agree that the basement wouldn't be a great place to keep birds. You should be fine with them on the first level of your home.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Yeah, if it's not a finished basement you're right. I was envisioning a finished basement when I misunderstood her.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Yeah, I've had a few "acute events" after cleaning the loft. I also had a bit of a rattle (actually clicking and popping sounds) while sleeping. When I'd have the acute events, I'd wake up in the middle of the night with a feeling of being somewhat unable to breathe and a strong desire to cough (unproductive). I also would feel hot, almost feverish. The second time that it happened, I took a Sudafed and a Benadryl together and eased the symptoms within a few minutes. The clicking and popping sounds remained for a long time until I started forcing myself to lose weight. Now, I seem to be back to where I was before my first acute event.

The problem with bird feather dust is that it's a VERY small particle. The smaller the particle, the further into your lungs it can travel. With this dust, it can go all the way to the alveoli (little air sacs where the gas exchange of oxygen for carbon dioxide occurs). It's also a "foreign protein", which means that the body doesn't like it there and might mount a serious attack on it. It's the overreaction that's bad--you're body ends up causing too much inflammation (think: swelling) that ultimately starts closing off the space in the air sacs that are used for the gas exchange. That, of course, is the "acute event".

The "chronic" stage is actually worse because it occurs over long periods of time at a low level such that actual scar tissue begins to form in the alveoli. This just makes the gas exchange get more and more difficult with time and there's virtually no way to correct it--it's like building calluses on your fingers.

Pidgey


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## minimonkey (Apr 7, 2005)

My understanding is that it is a bit like silicosis... exactly what Pidgey said, that the lungs build up scar tissue over time. 

I have quite a few indoor pigeons and doves, and I do worry about this a bit... but not enough to stop living with my birds. I'm the one who does the cleaning up after them, etc. They bathe pretty much daily, which helps -- but everything that is even near the flight cage is covered in dust. I do the best I can to keep it to a minimum, and I am taking my chances.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

I think I have bird fanciers lung now from reading this thread, lol. I swear my breathing gets more difficult with every post!

But more seriously, I wanted to say I'm really sorry to hear that some of our friends here are afflicted with this disease.


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