# Pigeon intelligence



## TitanicWreck (Jun 12, 2003)

Parrots and parakeets seem to have the same complex set of emotions as humans- they can feel anger, love, sorrow, etc...

I think pigeons have emotions as well- they certianly have memories, given their excellent sense of direction and habits of sticking to daily routines...

But a 'bird expert' I know who praises the intellect of parrots tells me pigeons neither feel nor think, but are mindless drones driven by the need to eat, sleep and reproduce. (a description one might apply to humans..)

I do believe pigeons feel and think..

For those who raise pigeons, do they have individial personalities? How about complex emotions?


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I keep rescue pigeons and they certainly are not drones...they are extremely intelligent, capable of recognising more symbols than any other bird and have been trained to assist in rescue as well as to deliver messages. However, they don't seem capable of sustained malice. They seem to 
want to understand and like human beings. They have beem described as the only bird that doesn't murder other birds...some might interpret this natural gentleness as stupidity.

Cynthia


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## KIPPY (Dec 18, 2003)

I think your "bird expert" has a problem with pigeons.

Kim


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

"But a 'bird expert' I know who praises the intellect of parrots tells me pigeons neither feel nor think, but are mindless drones driven by the need to eat, sleep and reproduce. (a description one might apply to humans..)"

TitanicWreck,
I truly pity this bird 'expert'. It must be quite sad to live with such a shallow mind. 

Hmmm.... I don't recall any parrots serving in the war or saving hundreds of lives. Just to name a couple pigeon feats that have been documented. 
I'm sure parrots are quite intelligent. I've never been around one, therefore, I can only assume. By the same token, pigeons are extremely intelligent, rather than 'mindless', & I have been around them.

"For those who raise pigeons, do they have individial personalities?" 

Mine do.....
I have 7 pigeons, all rescued & non releasable. Each one has it's own unique personality. 
Jessie: She is my little Miss 'attitude'. She will grunt, groan & wing slap every time I put my hand in the cage.
Frank: He is Jessie's sole mate, & is a very 'laid back' kind of pij. No worries as far as he is concerned.
Mikko: Is my 'stud muffin'. Being an Old Dutch Capuchine, he literally struts about his cage.
Pij'ette: Mikko's sole mate is my little China doll. Very prim & proper.
Sadie: Mikko & Pij'ett's offspring is my sweet 'Tom boy'. She is always getting into something.
Sam: Quite like his dad, Mikko.
Pij: He is a Jacobin & my most recent adoptee. He is also a PMV survivor & loves to be held. He offers more love than most humans.

In answer to you question: Do pigeons have personalities? You bet they do. And minds and feelings. They are wondrous beings.
Cindy

PS: It would be wonderful if this bird 'expert' would take a chance & learn about pigeons, rather than degrading them.
He may really enjoy the learning experience! 

[This message has been edited by AZWhitefeather (edited May 23, 2004).]


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Pigeons are definitely capable of thinking and feeling.

Ask Skye, my pet pigeon, who had a traumatic childhood. The Animal planet Pet Psychic,Sonia, talked to him, and got to hear about his life, firsthand. She was drawn to him because of his outbursts, and an interesting story he had to tell. The parrot that was there in the studio, didn't have anything of great interest.

She told me that he told her about the trauma in his childhood, and how he was syringe fed, etc. He shared his fears, his worries, and his past. She told me, Skye was beautiful and intelligent. Everything he told her was true, and no one gave her any information about his life. 

Scientists have been studying the flight behavior of pigeons, and why they travel as they do, they follow the highways of man to get home easier if it suits them, but will turn off on their own if there is a short cut that will save them time and energy to get home. The scientists said they are very clever, like humans.

The more time and attention we give to them, the more they let us see their intelligence, emotions, and personalities.

Treesa


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## Geranyl (May 13, 2004)

Hi Trees....
Would you be kind enough to give a bit more detail about how Sonia conversed with Skye? I was just reading about the pet psychic area earlier on this day and was wondering about it.

Thanks!


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

I just love the story of Skye visiting with Sonia Treesa.

"The parrot that was there in the studio, didn't have anything of great interest."

LOL. 
Cindy


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Pigeons are actually considered to be distant relatives of parrots. They share a lot of common traits one being the method of how they feed their young. Pigeons are very different from parrots in behaviour as they developed down a totally different evolutionary path. They do indeed have unique personalities and definitely feel pain; both physical pain as well as emotional pain. Every creature shows it's intelligence in a unique way. Just because it's not typically understood by us humans, doesn't mean it's not there.


Brad

[This message has been edited by Pigeonpal2002 (edited May 23, 2004).]


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## dano7 (Feb 10, 2004)

they once said dolphins weren't intelligent.
As noted, you have to be smart enough to know how to measure the intelligence of a different species.

I've mentioned I have moved my wilder flock each day to relocate them on a safe baseball field. I had changed the feeding location everyday in a logical pattern. On the last day I wasn't sure they would all get the move right away because the move was from behind a high backstop out to the third base side of the infield. When I got there, 60 out of 70 birds were waiting for me at the destination spot - I have never fed a bird there and they could have been at the previous days feeding place or 360 degrees from it, but somehow they extrapolated ahead. 

The two things they don't do as far as I can tell are 1) they never apologize, and 2) they are never embarassed. pretty smart, huh?


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi All,

Just a true story from this afternoon about pigeon intelligence or lack thereof. 

I was at the local duck pond where I go each and every day to check all the birds which consist of domestic and wild ducks and geese as well as a few straggling (haven't migrated yet) coots, and a sizeable feral pigeon flock.

I walked into the park and started doing my head counts and looking at each individual bird only to find a new and obviously in trouble pigeon. It was standing fluffed up at the end of the flock which was feeding on goodies left by people. I walked up, reached down, and picked up a very, very skinny youngster .. a few yellow feather sprouts still on one side of the head. Once I realized what I had, I put it back down to see if it could or would fly .. well about four inches off the ground and then stopped and peeped, squeaked, and wing twitched me. 

I again picked the youngster up and said "It's okay, I'm going to take you home for now". This little bird literally climbed up the front of my T-shirt and snuggled under my chin. I could sense a very real sense of relief from the bird.

Then a banded white racer landed at the edge of the flock, and I said "Oh s&*t!" Now another one to get .. turned around to take the youngster to the van and when I got back the white racer was gone.

The point here is that the young pigeon had obviously been raised by someone and then released at the park. Normally that would be a fine deal as there is plenty of food, water, and shelter at the park. In this case, the youngster had no idea what to do and was quite happy to be "rescued". It is a little blue bar feral and will remain with me until it can be successfully released or until it's determined that this needs to be a "pet" bird. This little bird somehow "knew" that I was not going to hurt it and was going to "help" it. This youngster cannot fly well enough to have safely left the park tonight and would have fallen victim to a predator. It never ceases to amaze me how pigeons, in particular, seem to know who to go to or who to allow to help them. This is truly, truly, a precious juvenile.

Then there's Houdini Weenie .. have had him for years, and like a parrot, he has locks on his cage doors. I'm sure you can figure that one out. He doesn't really want to leave the premises but does like to get out and harrass the other "less talented" pigeons.

Anyone who thinks that pigeons don't have reasoning abilities, emotions, and feelings has totally missed not only "the" boat but their special boat.

Anyone who has raised a baby pigeon or dove has only to think back to how long it took you (the stupid human) to figure out how to feed the bird without bathing it and you in formula .. the little bird got it on about your second inept try and was opening the mouth and hoping your aim had improved <LOL>!

Terry


[This message has been edited by TAWhatley (edited May 23, 2004).]


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

And a PS:

I have a Mobrella (hybrid Cockatoo .. half Moluccan and half Umbrella). His name is Lucas and he is going on four years old. Truly, this is an extremely smart bird .. he talks well, can speak in reasonably long sentences, has the ability to formulate new speech on his own, has a good sense of context, and is very, very dextrous and mechanically skilled. In short .. Lucas is a very smart bird. Is he smarter than a pigeon? Yes, he probably is. But, there is no Stanford Binet test for birds that I know of. Still, he is smart in totally different ways than pigeons and doves are.
I'd give a feral pigeon better odds of survival than Lucas on his own.

Terry


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## KIPPY (Dec 18, 2003)

"The two things they don't do as far as I can tell are 1) they never apologize, and 2) they are never embarassed. pretty smart, huh?"
and they never pick up after themselves. LOL!


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## WhiteWingsCa (Mar 1, 2002)

mindless 'drones' would not recognize the difference between my husband and any stranger who comes into the loft.

If it is my husband, they all flock to the door, asking if it's suppertime, or time to go for a fly. If it is a stranger, they all move away to their perches, looking wary and ready to flee.

If it is me -- they all hang off the doorway, because they know if I'm there, they're going to get peanuts. And certain ones always fly to my shoulders/arms to be fed -- because they know they'll get more there, instead of having to fight over the ones scattered on the ground.

Mindless 'drones' wouldn't know exactly which nest box is theirs -- after being kept in another 'room' for a couple of months. When put back in the breeding loft, the cock birds not only know which boxes are 'theirs', they also know what that room means - - girls are coming!







)


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## Guest (May 24, 2004)

Kippy -

But they re-arrange their toys and the stuff they make nests from.

Al


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## KIPPY (Dec 18, 2003)

"re-arrange" OH! that's the way it's suppose to be. my bad! LOL!


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Gerynal,

Sonia, the Pet Psychic converses by reading them. She can hear them with her mind. 

Skye was making gagging noises-coming from his throat, she picked up on it.....that was because, I was a novice, never syringe fed in my life, until he came along. He let her know I was not very good at it. 

She also asked me, if I was going to sell him, because he asked her...LOL ...the week before he made his debut, I took him from one place to another (door to door)to get him used to people and other animals. We visited family, friends, and pet stores!!!!
Is that a smart bird...or what???


Treesa


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Well, I don't reckon that when Chickpea lands on my shoulder when I'm well away from her box cleaning up, and nibbles at my ear, she is mindless - she knows that when her box has been invaded by Gurdy, one of the dominant males (he thinks so, anyway), and she can't get in, I will go and tweak his tail or just point a finger at him and he will make a hasty exit.

In fact, Gurdy understands the pointing finger and his name - if he is invading when I'm outside, I have now several times called his name, got his attention and stuck my finger through the wire - and he has retired to his own box.

Another male, Hurdy, has the trick of climbing up the wire in front of us and staring. He knows very well that we understand his unusual position - it means 'can you please get me some twigs for my nest?'.

Thing is, no mere instinct is going to help them to quite obviously know that certain behaviour towards a human is appropriate to express a particular need at a given time.

I have a visiting pigeon who gets outside the balcony door, unseen by me, all on his own, and calls to me. I know his voice, of course, and I know that he is asking me for peanuts. He has learned how to train me!

They ain't just dumb animals, no way









John


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## ALDO (Apr 14, 2004)

HELLO ALL,
I FIND ALL OF THIS VERY INTERESTING.I PERSONALLY BELIEVE THAT PIGEONS AND DOVES ARE QUITE INTELLIGENT , AND ALSO NOBLE GENTLE CREATURES.WHEN I WAS A CHILD , ABOUT 11 OR SO I WAS GIVEN A PAIR OF RESCUED RINGNECK DOVES TO CARE FOR .THEY WERE STILL TO YOUNG TO FEED ON THEIR OWN , SO I HAD TO HAND FEED THEM. THEY CAME FROM THE SAME NEST AND 1 WAS FEMALE AND THE OTHER MALE . I HAD BEEN FEEDING THEM FOR APPROX. 3 DAYS SOMEWHAT SUCCESFULLY. ONE MORNING AS I WAS REACHING FOR THE FEMALE THE MALE RUSHED OVER TO HER SIDE WING SLAPPED MY HAND AND WHEN THAT DIDN'T MAKE ME RETREAT HE WENT RIGHT UP ALONG SIDE HER AND COVERED HER WITH HIS WING TO PROTECT HER. I STOPPED AND THOUGHT TO MYSELF " WHAT A BRAVE LITTLE BIRD" , HE WAS READY TO SACRIFICE HIMSELF TO PROTECT HIS SISTER.THIS INCIDENT SHOWS ME THAT NOT ONLY ARE THEY INTELLIGENT BUT THEY HAVE FEELINGS, IN THIS CASE LOVE FOR HIS SISTER. THIS EVENT REPEATED ITSELF MANY TIMES FROM THEN ON UNTIL THEY WERE WEANED. I THINK THAT WAS WHEN I BECAME FASCINATED BY THESE GREAT LITTLE BIRDS....ALDO


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

That's a really cool observation, Aldo. I noticed on my balcony, when I had pigeons raising several families, how the two babies would raise themselves up together to hiss when I cleaned up around their nest bowl, and the nearest would try to hit me with a tiny wing. They often can be so bonded at that age

John


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

That is a touching story, Aldo. They are very brave birds. Samuel Pepys recorded in his diary that during the great fire of London in 1666 many pigeons refused to abandon their nests and plummeted into the fire when their wing feathers got burned. Pigeons have also been decorated for bravery when they flew home despite being mortally wounded by enemy gunfire.

Cynthia


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## Evan Garris (Apr 26, 2004)

Thats so sad but brave at the same time. At the wildlife centre I volunteer at there are 4 pigeons in the dove avairy because they can't fly or were nearly pecked to death by other pigeons. Anyway this little white homer that can't fly and a nun have paired up. I was checking for eggs when this nun saw me and rushhed up and wing slapped me to focus to attention on him instead of her. The white homer got away from the big mean"predator". One of the bravest pigeons I know.


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## Mistifire (May 27, 2004)

My pigeon is very inteligent, and mischivious. She figured out how to open her bedroom door by standing on the top and using her wings to blow the door open. She also knows her name and when she sneaks out of her room she knows she is being naughty and goes back in before I get there and makes the noise that says "ha ha I got out when mom wasn't looking" My ferret can't figure her way out of the room and ferrets are supposed to be in the intelegence range of dogs. 
Pigeons most definately have feelings. Mine always knows when im sad or if i've had a bad day, and she comes and sits on my shoulder and preens my "feathers", cuddles up to me and makes soothing sounds she only makes at those times.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Hello Mistifire,
I would like to welcome you to pigeons.com.
Thanks for the enjoyable story about your sweet pij.

Pigeons definitely are intelligent, inquisitive & mischievous little critters, not to mention their wonderful personalities.
Cindy


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## raynjudy (Aug 22, 2000)

"Personality", indeed! The very notion of personality denotes intelligence and complex emotions. 

I too know about this first hand, and we're not just talking temperaments here, we're talking personalities. 

We keep four pigeons as pets--family members, really--and while they each, like all individuals, have their gifts, they also 
each have distinct personalities. Each of them displays powerful emotions and bonding instincts.

We keep parrots too, and I'd compare Judy's expertise to most "experts". Judy would tell you that while parrots are certainly "all that", pigeons are much maligned and disparaged without good cause. She would concur that they are complete, thinking and feeling little beings.

The facts are overwhelmingly to the contrary of what your 'expert' told you. The noble history and lore of the pigeon is beyond debate, to anybody well read on the subject.

Our favorite bird, by a landslide, is a rescued feral pigeon named Bernie. This is no arbitrary decision or groundless emotional judgment, the little guy has earned the title; hell, he demands it! 

Kindly check your e-mail...

--Ray


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## TitanicWreck (Jun 12, 2003)

Thanks very much for the info Ray!
I do appreciate it....
I am convinced pigeons feel and think, and I have observed different pigeons act in differnt ways. 
Some are docile, some are lazy, some are hostile, some are affectionate- the whole gambit of emotions are covered...

I have noticed even among bird fanciers some hold a near species racist distain for pigeons- A preference is given to cardinals, bluejays, finches, etc, but not pigeons.

My favorite bird is the pigeon.
Pigeons are beautiful birds. 


regards

TCS

[This message has been edited by TitanicWreck (edited May 29, 2004).]


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## raynjudy (Aug 22, 2000)

Pigeons--And All Columbiformes--Forever!!!

--Ray


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