# Vitamins



## Tony Holmes (Feb 1, 2003)

I need as much info on the daily requirements for racing pigeons. I try to stay away from medication as much as possible but I need the amounts a pigeon would need daily to sustain good health.

I do not use bleach as it is a poison but use H2O2, 35% food grade and find it works just as good. This is the type of info I an interested in. Thanks


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Hello Tony & Welcome to Pigeons.com,
I am not familiar with racing pigeons, however, other members will be along that can assist with your question.
In the meantime I would suggest that you also post your questions on the Racing Forum. Between the two I am sure you will receive the information you are looking for.
Cindy 

[This message has been edited by AZWhitefeather (edited February 01, 2003).]


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## Navigator (Jan 2, 2003)

Tony, I don't use a lot of medication to maintain good health since the key is to provide a proper environment for them. Loft construction is very important in the overall health and the maximum nuber of birds to place in it. 
Clean the loft daily and use containers for weed and water that prevent the birds from soiled the contents. The loft design should allow lots of sunshine with good ventilation and no drafts. All of these are basics, but many times overlooked.
At certain times of the year my race birds are allowed to go on the ground so the risk of Coccidiosis and worms is present. If either of these do stress the birds where it is noticed in their activities, I will treat with the meds of choice.
For Cocci, I choose Sulmet liquid cncentrate and mix it according to the label for poultry.
For worms, I use Tramisol sheep oblets at 2(500mg oblets) per 1 gallon drinking water. I also use Piperazine wormer at the recommended dosage on the label for poultry. I don't like using the same meds over and over.
Five weeks prior to the first race, I treat the entire race team with Global's multimix as directed on the package. This is a combination treatment for Canker, Cocci, & worms.
There are several products available for canker, but the product of choice for me is Flagyl. This is the only one that will affect all 28 varieties.
I also use Apple Cider Vinegar, Garlic, Electrolytes, Cod Liver Oil, Brewer's Yeast, Wheat Germ Oil,and a very important product on the shelf is 20 Mule Team Borax.
Hope this helps.


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## raynjudy (Aug 22, 2000)

Hydrogen Peroxide? Surely for cleaning purposes only!









Sounds like Nav's got it all worked out!









PIGEONS FOREVER!!!

--Ray


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## WhiteWingsCa (Mar 1, 2002)

Ray, I know several people who use food grade Hydrogen Peroxide in their water...rather like some of us use bleach or ACV.

For our racing pigeons, we use a high quality all-season mix during the off season, along with a specially prepared pigeon pellet. During breeding season, we use the pellets along with a breeder mix. The birds who are actually racing/working get a high quality racing grain mix (no pellets). Just weaned youngsters get a "young bird" mix until they've started heavy training.

Plenty of fresh water, grit (both red and oyster shell). We use several different water suppliments, depending on the weather, time of year etc. NEVER mix water suppliments...one at a time, and usually a day of just clear water between each. Things we use... ph balancer/electrolytes, vitamins, ACV, honey, minerals, and occasionally garlic.

Twice a year, we use Dac-4 for cocci, e-coli, canker, and worms. We vaccinate for PMV (old birds once/yr, youngsters twice). We also use BioMoss in their feed...twice a week or more, depending on conditioning and weather.

We avoid medications like the plague, after a very very bad experience with them a few years back. However, we will use them if absolutely necessary

A healthy, conditioned racing pigeon (not raising babies) requires only about 1 to 1-1/2 oz of food a day.


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## Tony Holmes (Feb 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by raynjudy:
> *Hydrogen Peroxide? Surely for cleaning purposes only!
> 
> 
> ...


Dear Ray

Hydrogen peroxide is wonderful for both humans and animals. I live on the South African South coast just South of Durban. At present we have temperatures of 32 Celcius with a humidity of between 75 - 100% daily, Cocci is a big problem. I found this via a vet who visited my restaurant and also through the Internet. Type in Hydrogen Peroxide and you will be supprised. I suffered for years with Epstin Barr virus(glandular fever) and I cured it. For Birds I use 1ml to 1liter I had wonderful results last year with 11 club wins 1 Combined and 1 union win. You must us hydrogen by it self.
You can not mix any other item with it.
Hope this gives you more date.

I an presently looking for the RDA for a pigeon. I tell you it is not easy.

Bye 
Tony


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## Tony Holmes (Feb 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by Navigator:
> *Tony, I don't use a lot of medication to maintain good health since the key is to provide a proper environment for them. Loft construction is very important in the overall health and the maximum nuber of birds to place in it.
> Clean the loft daily and use containers for weed and water that prevent the birds from soiled the contents. The loft design should allow lots of sunshine with good ventilation and no drafts. All of these are basics, but many times overlooked.
> At certain times of the year my race birds are allowed to go on the ground so the risk of Coccidiosis and worms is present. If either of these do stress the birds where it is noticed in their activities, I will treat with the meds of choice.
> ...



Thanks for the Info

How do you use apple cider vinegar?
And what is 20 Mule Team Borax? Is this a brand name? I am is from South Africa and do not know this product. If it is Borax how do you mix it and what do you use it for?

I us Hydrogen Peroxide of a Virus and Bacterial killer in the Birds and Yes it is given in the drinking water. I fyou require more info go to Hydrogen Peroxide on the internet, it makes for good reading. I live on the SA South coast and if you are an American it is like Live in Tamper Florida in the hot summer. Humidity is a killer and this saved my butt last you, cocci is a killer her.

Regards 

Tony


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## Navigator (Jan 2, 2003)

Tony, I mix the ACV 1 tablespoon per 1 gallon drinking water one day per week to slightly alter the pH in the digestive tract to help against cocci, etc.
The 20 mule team is brand name Borax. I mix 1 tablespoon per 1 gallon BATH water one day per week to kill lice and mites (external parasites). Some fanciers place Moth Balls overhead in the loft where the pigeons can not get to them. This helps against flies on the pigeons, but I worry that it may not be good for pigeon respiratory system.
Harry


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## raynjudy (Aug 22, 2000)

Hey, Tony!

Judy and I have used Hydrogen Peroxide for general cleaning and sanitizing in the home, for years. I helped introduce the new product in our market area--it's called H2Orange2, and it's produced by Envirox, in Illinois. Far more stable than "oxygen" cleaners, H2Orange2 has an extended "pot life" (after being mixed). It has an EPA Haz-Mat rating of "0", in all recommended dilutions. Rarely have I been so pleased with a product! It's a natural for loft use, and not overly expensive either, but you DON'T drink it!









Hydrogen Peroxide is a powerful oxidizer. The high-test stuff, like in H2Orange2, has been used to power rocket engines. The British even built a submarine using a diesel/peroxide engine. And it has bleach looking for work as a cleaner/sanitizer. But again, I would shy away from ingesting the stuff.

Peroxide, while a sanitizer, will not acidify the water's pH, the way bleach does. But it certainly would kill the cooties in the water. Still, an over dosage could do severe damage to the pigeons over time.

I don't doubt you Tony--it just scares me, that's all.

--Ray


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## Tony Holmes (Feb 1, 2003)

Hey Ray

My wife Annetta and I swear by H2O2. Annetta is studying to be a health Doctor and the amount of disinformation there is, is unbelievable. Dr Chris Barnard the South African heart pioneer took H2O2 for years. The problem is that you must use the Food grade H2O2 if you are going to take it. It is not that the of the self H2O2 is no good it is that it contains a lot of impurities.

Oxygen is very expensive and the H2O2 does the same task at a fraction of the price. The problem I have is that we all know the Recommended Daily vitamin allowance for humans but not pigeons. 

I recently had a case that 1 of my eggs chickens came down with Botulism poisons which is caused by rotting vegetation , high humidity and wet weather. This caused the chicken to go totally laim. We contacted the state vet and he said that this is a type of cancer the birds get and that there is no hope. 

Well not one for not taking on a challenge we dosed the bird with 500mg vitamin c 200mg vit E and kelp for protein. It is now 3 weeks later and the bird is laying eggs again and almost standing, still a little unsure but non-the less standing. 

I you need more info on H2O2 contact & I will give you the site.

regards Tony


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## Tony Holmes (Feb 1, 2003)

Thanks Harry you're a life saver. Tony


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