# Medical problems what's the most common!



## DEEJAY7950 (Dec 13, 2006)

OK, we have many many long time keepers of pigeons here, so what is the most common serious medical problem our pigeons seem to get? The one thing that comes to mind for me is the common coccidiosis, since they have it to some degree or another! Never had any problems with any of the MAJOR pigeon disease's that are always stressed to watch out for, other than cocci, the only other thing I've ever ran into was an occasional case of canker but even this is pretty rare ! 
so my list is ---cocci
---worms
---canker
for the most common things I've run into over the years!

So tell us what's your most common of problems you've run into!


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*Common pigeon issues*

In Florida, pox is an issue, but the immunizations will take care of that, as well as PMV, Paratyphoid have immunizations to take care of them. 

E coli, one-eye colds, and respiratory infections, can also be issues for many fanciers.

If your bird has a case of coccidiosis, it is usually secondary to something else that is going on.

I have a standard wormer, a spray for ecto parasites, but I have also included in my regimen for taking care of "parasites", Scatt, because it will kill blood sucking parasites as well as air sac mites-since I do take in rescues.


----------



## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Worms*



DEEJAY7950 said:


> OK, we have many many long time keepers of pigeons here, so what is the most common serious medical problem our pigeons seem to get? The one thing that comes to mind for me is the common coccidiosis, since they have it to some degree or another! Never had any problems with any of the MAJOR pigeon disease's that are always stressed to watch out for, other than cocci, the only other thing I've ever ran into was an occasional case of canker but even this is pretty rare !
> so my list is ---cocci
> ---worms
> ---canker
> ...


I believe that worms are encountered by all bird breeders and keepers. These other things may not be.

Bill


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Oh, you'll see that some things tend to be related to the weather, geography and circumstances. During wet years, I see more coccidiosis in the wild pigeons that I rehab and during warmer, dryer years I see more canker. But that's here. Other folks are going to see more Paratyphoid and PMV. Some folks have an earthen floor to their aviaries and will see more worms than somebody like me who has a second-floor loft that stays dry as a bone. It just depends.

Pidgey


----------



## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*How often do you worm?*



Pidgey said:


> Oh, you'll see that some things tend to be related to the weather, geography and circumstances. During wet years, I see more coccidiosis in the wild pigeons that I rehab and during warmer, dryer years I see more canker. But that's here. Other folks are going to see more Paratyphoid and PMV. Some folks have an earthen floor to their aviaries and will see more worms than somebody like me who has a second-floor loft that stays dry as a bone. It just depends.
> 
> Pidgey


It seems that everyone recommends worming 4 times a year anymore. Why? If you are going to work in other preventive meds, the birds have little time to recover between treatments, the way I see it. What do you think?

I have normally done this once a year and sometimes twice. My birds have always been on concrete floors and wood floors, currently it's concrete.

It appears that people may be overmedicating birds, which might even be more dangerous than undermedicating. I understand that alot of people are dealing with rescues and ferals which certainly do pose more problems than captive bred.

Bill


----------



## DEEJAY7950 (Dec 13, 2006)

Do we have the "Chicken little syndrome" when it comes down to pigeon illness?
Seems like when a bird gets sick we all have our own ideas as to what it is due to our own experiences, I tend to go with the most common of things which is coci since our birds no matter what we do will always find that one piece of tainted grain that fell on the floor (you know that's always the case), still others tend to believe the worse of things like "paratyphoid" but this really has signs you can read, like wing boils, swollen leg joints, and lameness! When i see a bird that is lame, looks like it is paralyzed and can't fly but just lays there, the first thing I look for is the tell tale signs of wing boils and swollen joints, if these are absent then I would suspect a case of cocci because a bird could be fine one day and very lame the next, but after treated usually a few days and you wouldn't even know the bird had been ill! Does this seem rational to you?


----------



## DEEJAY7950 (Dec 13, 2006)

I do believe we tend to over medicate, so using the natural remedies is a good thing to do! Maybe we should have a "pox alert" here in Florida? I just have never seen it as yet and never hope to!


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

jbangelfish said:


> It seems that everyone recommends worming 4 times a year anymore. Why? If you are going to work in other preventive meds, the birds have little time to recover between treatments, the way I see it. What do you think?
> 
> I have normally done this once a year and sometimes twice. My birds have always been on concrete floors and wood floors, currently it's concrete.
> 
> ...


I only medicate when I have to. I've got a microscope and run fecal floats from time to time to check. Nobody (birds) goes into the loft until I've checked and/or treated them for worms. As such, I haven't had a worm problem in the loft and have never treated all the birds for worms for lo these seven years.

If you're going to race your birds and they're going to be exposed to other's birds or foreign water (ponds, etc), you're probably taking a lot more risk that I don't have to worry about. I have, however, seen canker in my loft and have flock treated for that as well as Paratyphoid a couple of times in all these years.

That is my experience but there's no way that I'd tell you that's how it should be for everybody. Other folks have pox to deal with and I've never even seen it. I'd never seen PMV until these last two years. While there are a lot of similarities, you're always going to have your own personal mix of circumstances and occasionally you're going to get a surprise.

Pidgey


----------



## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Lameness is a very late sign of Paratyphoid*



DEEJAY7950 said:


> Do we have the "Chicken little syndrome" when it comes down to pigeon illness?
> Seems like when a bird gets sick we all have our own ideas as to what it is due to our own experiences, I tend to go with the most common of things which is coci since our birds no matter what we do will always find that one piece of tainted grain that fell on the floor (you know that's always the case), still others tend to believe the worse of things like "paratyphoid" but this really has signs you can read, like wing boils, swollen leg joints, and lameness! When i see a bird that is lame, looks like it is paralyzed and can't fly but just lays there, the first thing I look for is the tell tale signs of wing boils and swollen joints, if these are absent then I would suspect a case of cocci because a bird could be fine one day and very lame the next, but after treated usually a few days and you wouldn't even know the bird had been ill! Does this seem rational to you?


If you treat once a year as a preventative, you should never have this symptom. Bad wing joints and leg joints take awhile to develope and can disfigure a bird forever or render them lame or unable to fly indefinately.

I am not one to overmedicate and I am very cautious with all meds and even vitamins. I try to caution people here about this all the time but with taking in ferals and rescues, there is alot more risk of diseases. These birds are best kept by themselves for a long time (I think at least 90 days) and treated for a variety of things. This allows time to build them up between treatments. The good thing is that many meds will treat for a variety of problems, such as Sulphas which are relatively safe compared to some others. If you don't overuse them, they should work on your birds forever.

Pox, canker and worms have more visible signs that can be addressed as needed. There are still things out there that can be near epidemic in one area and non-existent in another so I try to pay attention to where people are and if they are likely to encounter something that I don't. As to worms, they may not be visible to the naked eye but if a bird is very thin and came from the wild, it is a very likely cause of it's poor flesh. I would also examine feces but I don't have a microscope to use so I am looking at color and texture and going by that. Maybe not the best but I've gotten by with it for a long time.

As far as Paratyphoid, I think it's alot more common than people think. A bird can have it and show no outward signs or symptoms for a long time. I always look for green stools, especially in spring after mice have been around during the winter. This is likely more of a problem in Northern zones of the US and probably Canada and anywhere else that has a cold winter and mice move in. They are very hard to keep out completely. I've been trying for nearly 50 years and still can't say that I am completely successful at it.

Bill


----------



## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Thanks Pidgey*



Pidgey said:


> I only medicate when I have to. I've got a microscope and run fecal floats from time to time to check. Nobody (birds) goes into the loft until I've checked and/or treated them for worms. As such, I haven't had a worm problem in the loft and have never treated all the birds for worms for lo these seven years.
> 
> If you're going to race your birds and they're going to be exposed to other's birds or foreign water (ponds, etc), you're probably taking a lot more risk that I don't have to worry about. I have, however, seen canker in my loft and have flock treated for that as well as Paratyphoid a couple of times in all these years.
> 
> ...


Pass this on. People listen to you here.

What did you do for PMV and did your birds recover fully?

Bill


----------



## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

E coli can be mistaken for coccidi Grain that has been spilt and had bird droppings. Can ause E coli. Coccid in a dry loft is less likely. Cold months brings out cocidi. Salamenla/ pharathiophiod Can be masked by carrier birds. Then show up over night. Bringing fast death. Boils and swollen joints is in a more advanced stage. Certion breeds are more prone in carrying it. As they are loft kept. In crowed numbers less ventilation and such. Worming the birds can be 2 times yearly or 4 . But if the birds have not been out of the loft or had no greens. Then 2 times a year is good. Over meding the birds Yes many will Health relates to ventilation, and not over crowding. Some more then othrs have problems no sure answer. But keep the loft dry ventilate and do not over crowd. You see much less issues. pmv vaccinate yearly and should have little to worry about. pmv started here in the U S in about 1980 and killed many birds before people sarted vaccinating pmv can wipe aloft out in no time. But you here less and less about out breaks. Because people do vaccinate.


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

jbangelfish said:


> Pass this on. People listen to you here.
> 
> What did you do for PMV and did your birds recover fully?
> 
> Bill


Oh, shoot, I'm not the PMV expert by a long shot. When they're showing symptoms about all you can do is provide supportive measures and hunker down in the trenches to wait. It's been said that some respond to calcium and B-vitamins but I haven't had enough of them (PMV birds) to even try those. Two of the three were able to self feed and the other one had to live on Kaytee for a couple of months. Other people have had other experiences so they're not all the same.

Pidgey


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

DEEJAY7950 said:


> I do believe we tend to over medicate, so using the natural remedies is a good thing to do! Maybe we should have a "pox alert" here in Florida? I just have never seen it as yet and never hope to!


I think prevention is important, besides the inccoluations for pox I think using mosquito netting, like on the windows sure helps keep that problem down. I hardly ever pox anymore. I hardly ever use any medications, but I do recommend all the innoculations and meds to keep on hand, especially for those who's birds fly outside and are exposed to other birds outside the loft. 




re lee said:


> E coli can be mistaken for coccidi Grain that has been spilt and had bird droppings. Can ause E coli. Coccid in a dry loft is less likely. Cold months brings out cocidi. Salamenla/ pharathiophiod Can be masked by carrier birds. Then show up over night. Bringing fast death. Boils and swollen joints is in a more advanced stage. Certion breeds are more prone in carrying it. As they are loft kept. In crowed numbers less ventilation and such. Worming the birds can be 2 times yearly or 4 . But if the birds have not been out of the loft or had no greens. Then 2 times a year is good. Over meding the birds Yes many will Health relates to ventilation, and not over crowding. Some more then othrs have problems no sure answer. But keep the loft dry ventilate and do not over crowd. You see much less issues. pmv vaccinate yearly and should have little to worry about. pmv started here in the U S in about 1980 and killed many birds before people sarted vaccinating pmv can wipe aloft out in no time. But you here less and less about out breaks. Because people do vaccinate.


Excellent information, you GO Robert!! Thanks for sharing.


----------



## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*It seems that our UK friends have more PMV*



Pidgey said:


> Oh, shoot, I'm not the PMV expert by a long shot. When they're showing symptoms about all you can do is provide supportive measures and hunker down in the trenches to wait. It's been said that some respond to calcium and B-vitamins but I haven't had enough of them (PMV birds) to even try those. Two of the three were able to self feed and the other one had to live on Kaytee for a couple of months. Other people have had other experiences so they're not all the same.
> 
> Pidgey


Our friends in the UK apparently would be the PMV experts as they have more of it by far but several here seem to have encountered it as well, just not nearly as common in the US.

I was just wondering what you did for yours and if they completely recovered.

I was more interested in how you medicate and worm all of your birds and you seem to do this on an as needed basis which I am a big advocate of also.

Different areas and conditions may dictate that we have to do things according to them and it makes it rather difficult to say that everyone should do this or that. We all have to be aware of what our birds are at risk for in our own areas of the world.

Bill


----------



## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

jbangelfish said:


> Our friends in the UK apparently would be the PMV experts as they have more of it by far but several here seem to have encountered it as well, just not nearly as common in the US.
> 
> I was just wondering what you did for yours and if they completely recovered.
> 
> ...


 Good thing here in The U S is when PMV was intruduced. And I believe it was introduced from a pair OR two of birds imported from the middle East Around 1980. I blelieve they were in quarintine In illnois. Then No such desease had every been seen Like pmv. The fast acting and likley death of birds exposed was sweeping arcross The country. Vets hurrioed to come up with a vaccine. Shows were canceled In many areas. Birds were dieing by the loft full. Very few survivers from exposed birds. Then we get the next step VACCINATE and at first many failed to do so. Then people saw this was a real concern amongst the pigeon lofts across the country. And slowly excepted the need To vaccinate. NOW days most all lofts Vaccinate. And control on PMV in the U S has really limited its spread. This desease is one that really can spread and destroy any loft any time. BIRDs getting it some can recover. BUt have partial paralises After. And they demonstrate nerve damage. I think cretit for discovery and a vaccine can be credited to the different vets that moved very fast to find a way to treat and prevent. And that WAs done Here in THe US. Or we many now have no pigeon hobby at all. There was even a fear that PMV could mutate over to the poultry industry where it would wipe many thousands of birds. Thankfully it never happened BUt this is all I remember about how pmv came to the U S and how a vaccine was found. This PMV is the fear desease in pigeons that needs to be kept under control Other desease gives a person a chance to get meds and treat. PMV strikes so fast by the time you gets meds sent Many birds can die.


----------



## DEEJAY7950 (Dec 13, 2006)

Maybe that's just part of the problem,? since many of us have never seen or had a case of it "because of the good works of these people that came up with a vaccine" many people don't vaccinate for it as they should? Sort of like kids not being vacinated because there hasn't been any cases of measels in a very long time, then POW it pops up its ugly head saying Hey I'm still here and you thought I was gone forever, silly rabbit tricks are for kids!


----------



## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

jbangelfish said:


> Our friends in the UK apparently would be the PMV experts as they have more of it by far but several here seem to have encountered it as well, just not nearly as common in the US.
> 
> I was just wondering what you did for yours and if they completely recovered.
> 
> ...


Hi Bill,

Be nice to think we did have PMV experts here  Unfortunately, it's simply experience of dealing with afflicted birds, but experience which remains mostly static because all we can do is apply the same care over and over, and remain with unanswered questions.

As you say, and Pidgey says, what problems we find in our birds seems to vary according to where you are, the time of year, etc.

With our new rescues, aside from injury, the most common problems we've seen have been canker, PMV, overgrowing beaks, and (in fledgeling collared doves) metabolic bone disease. We have had only a very few cases of pox, which affects wood pigeons far worse than feral pigeons from what we've seen. Late winter saw undernourished and weak squeakers, produced far too early in the year and not strong enough to withstand the stormy weather we had.

With our established residents, I think worms have been the only common 'ailment', and few instances of that. Still, sufficient for us to now believe we should give everyone a wormer in their water a couple of times a year. We have one bird who seems particularly susceptible to ear mites, but I check him regularly after the first time.

John


----------



## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Hi John*



John_D said:


> Hi Bill,
> 
> Be nice to think we did have PMV experts here  Unfortunately, it's simply experience of dealing with afflicted birds, but experience which remains mostly static because all we can do is apply the same care over and over, and remain with unanswered questions.
> 
> ...


Well, you seem to at least have alot more experience with it than most of us here. I confess that I have none with it to my knowledge. Any of my vitamin B deficient birds goes back to the 70's and early 80's and as I said, they were remarkably cured in a few days. I still say vitamin B should be a part of PMV treatment as there doesn't really seem to be a treatment. Only a vaccine which is only good for prevention.

I'm still trying to learn about PMV and it's implications here. I'm also trying to figure out if the epidemic is the fear of PMV or the disease itself. The rescue people obviously have much more experience with this than I. 

Like you say, pay attention to where the bird came from and think about what it would be likely to encounter. Wood pigeons, in the woods, mosquitoes and pox. Ferals, in the city, dirty water, contamination, possible contact with poisons. Gotta look at the big picture to sort it out.

Bill


----------



## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

No I never had 1 bird with pmv. Have I saw pmv Yes. Also in the early 1980s. A good friend in the club. Went to a show then not long after the show His birds came down with PMV. he ordered the vaccine it was new then. He lost almost all his birds before It arrived. And then as it take about 3 weeks to build up full resistance for the birds more became infected. I think he dropped to about 15 birds left after the bout of PMV. I believe also in the willd really PMV may be a mistaken observation Perhaps E Coli more often. As for real PMV will spread fast and kill many birds. Uncontroled in flocks of feral birds I would think it could wipe an entire flock out in no time. But E coli has severe problems as it advances. Also paratiphoid/ salmanela Can cause symptoms like virtigo twisting of the neck bird almost standing on its neck. Most often at this stage Its a lost cause for treatment. Saw that in a champoin modena. Shortly after a show in 1978. And it was diagnosed with paratiphoid of the neck. Lived about 5 days. . It belonged to another friend . Of course from importing The English bred Modenas. along came health issues back in the 70s. The english modena were stronger through the head and neck. Little longer backed but made a good impact in cultivating the modena. . Pox more often will attack young birds say 3 months or less Older young birds and adult birds seem to build a resistance to pox. Feral birds have to hunt for food. soured grains old grains. bad water and such can cause healt issues. Also poisans that attack the birds can mask othere known illnesses. And pest control companie use poison grains. Which can attck the nervous system. like pmv. I remember years ago When the local college hired people to poison the feral pigeons. It was sad. Birds would drop from the sky onto cars in the street on the ground unable to fly any more. They could walk and such Caught a couple but they did not last long. This made people alert. And many towns banned this . Dealing with ferals trying to help them It takes time to learn to reconize symptems. and it takes a special person that goes out of there way to help a pigeon. Now I am guilty of not helping many ferals. I have kept race or show birds most my life. And learned from them and other people how to care. But nave set aside room for ferals after I started with race and show birds. Those of you that do. Have your meds and ways to help them If it works you feel good if not you feel sad but you do nt stop you go on an help another. Kudos for that.


----------

