# You guys are great & I need help!



## CarrieFlanary (Mar 17, 2010)

I have been working to save a pigeon and don't know a thing about birds! I am in Daphne, Alabama - just east of Mobile, Alabama (I also work in Mobile). 

I stepped out of the office this past Thursday to see a pigeon flailing around in the street. Whatever happened to him had obviously JUST happened. I picked him up and moved him over to a gravel park to watch him as it looked like his legs did not work. It took him a few minutes to get his feet under him and gather the courage to try to fly. He flew a short distance, tried to land on a sign, but it looked like his perception was off because as he got within 6 inches, he just gave up and fell to the ground. I moved him back over onto a patch of grass and went home, hoping he would be ok. 

When I came in Friday morning, I checked on him - he had moved about 10 feet. So, I moved him to a corner of the park that had a wall on both sides to shelter him as much as possible and keep him out of the hot sun (YES it is quite warm in the sun down here right now). I have been giving him water and wild bird seed, and he periodically moves around somehow, but I don't think he is using his legs at all anymore. I kept thinking I would come back and he would be gone or dead, but he's a fighter and keeps hanging on. 

He started off being very scared of me, but as the days have passed by I can see him light up as I approach and loves to be stroked on his head. I gave in and brought him home tonight. As of right now I have him in a plastic aquarium-like cage that has a vented lid. Before reading this forum, I was trying to prepare the cage so that it would be natural and as soft and comfortable as possible since he is not walking at all. I lined the cage in some leftover fir tree bark that is cut into tiny chunks. His bottom is covered in poo from not walking. He is eating and drinking, but I don't know what else I can do? I'm thinking he may have flown into a window and got brain damage? Whatever it is, I think the leg issue is neurological more so than direct injury. Do you have any thoughts on what I can do or someone who may know more to help him? I'll keep him if I need to, but just want the little guy to get some help. 

Of course, my home is not ideal for birds. I have a heart for animals, so I have terriers & cats - neither of which will like the little guy! Help?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

bumping...... someone may have a rehabber information near you so keep checking back. if he is eating a drinking sounds like he will be fine for the moment....


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## CarrieFlanary (Mar 17, 2010)

Thank you spirit wings. So just water & wild bird seed is ok? Should I attempt to clean up his rear from the dried poo crusted all over it?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Hi Carrie...I don't have many referrals for your state but this is what I do have. If none of these resources are near you, call the one closest and ask if they know of any one in your area that treats feral Pigeons.
It also would be helpful for you to post a picture just so we can be sure you don't have a young bird that can't eat on his own yet.

Alabama (Veterinarians) 

Dr William Duke
3454 West Main st.
Dothan, Al
334-794-6333

Opp Veterinary
Dr Faith Drumheller
207 Highway 52 East
Opp, Al
334-493-6687
www.oppvet.com


Alabama (Rehabbers) 

Alabama Wildlife Center
100 Terrace Dr.
Pelham, Al 35124
Business office
205-663-7930
Wildlife Hotline
205-621-3333
http://www.awrc.org/
This facility will sometimes accept Pigeons. They are willing to offer advice and instruction if you have
found an injured or ill Pigeon and you are willing to treat and rehabilitate the Pigeon yourself.


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## lwerden (May 31, 2008)

Yes you need to clean the poop from his rear. Soak his bottom in lukewarm water to soften the poop and it should clean up easily.

You need to do a complete examination of this birds legs......is he not able to stand at all?

I know you said you were feeding him in the park......are you sure he is eating and drinking on his own? Does he appear to be malnourished? Can you feel his keel bone on his chest?....does it appear to be protruding?

Open his beak and inspect inside his mouth........look for any signs of yellow nodgels....the mouth and throat should be clear and pink.

Is it at all possible for you to take the bird to a Vet?........A bird that has not been able to stand on it's own really needs immediate attention.

Could you possibly post a picture of the bird?


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## CarrieFlanary (Mar 17, 2010)

I can absolutely take pictures. Give me a few minutes. I'll do whatever it takes, but I am a single mom (with no child support) who has JUST gotten a job after almost a year. I don't have a fortune to spend, but will do whatever I can. I am just not at all knowledgeable about birds.  Be right back with pics.


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

thank you for helping out this poor guy, and if you have a cat carrier or small dog crate it will probably be more suitable for him, just forget about the natural stuff.
if you have soft fleece layer it up for him so it's cushioned as to not put much pressure on his poor little legs


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## CarrieFlanary (Mar 17, 2010)

Ok here are pics. I also took a pic of his poop because he pooped when I picked him up. It's quite runny. So don't know if these will help, but I know it can't hurt!




























http://s152.photobucket.com/albums/s173/CFlanary/Poor Pigeon/?action=view&current=DSCN6426.jpg


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## CarrieFlanary (Mar 17, 2010)

OH! Also something important to note: when I was touching his leg taking pics, he jumped and moved his leg (which is an improvement from yesterday).


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

CarrieFlanary, thanks for helping this little guy out.

As altgirl35 mentioned, I think he would appreciate a bit different setup. If you don't have a carrier you could use the aquarium, line the bottom with a folded over terry cloth towel to fit the carrier/aquarium. The if you could get another small towel and roll it onto itself length wise and then loop this around on itself to make a donut and set him in the middle, like a little nest (I tape the two ends together so the donut is firm and does not easily separate). I think he would like the support being surrounded on all sides would give him. Under the donut/towel place a few layers of paper towel so when he voids himself you just have to remove a paper towel to clean up. 

Get two small dishes and put some seeds in one and some water in the other right to the edge of the towel so he does not have to stand to eat or drink, just reach over the edge. It would be good if he could be examined by a vet to determine the extent of his injuries. There will be others along with more advice, but sometime rest, warmth and food can do wonders to help them along and some movement in his legs is good to hear.

Good luck with him,

Karyn


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## CarrieFlanary (Mar 17, 2010)

I'll go rummage in the shed and see if I can come up with a more suitable temporary home for him. This was the best I could do with such short notice. The poop on his body is from where he was laying in the grass at the park. I am about to try to wash him up in the kitchen sink. Suggestions duly noted. I like the idea of a rolled towel to give a nest feel and easy clean up of paper towel underneath! I don't have proper heavy dishes, but these deeper plastic ones are working for now. At least he IS eating and drinking, which seems to be a good sign. 

We do have an environmental center here, but I know first-hand that they put injured birds down depending on injury. I rescued two flycatchers from a cat a few years ago - one with a broken wing and one with a broken leg. I asked the average cost of rehabilitation ($50) so I sent $100 to cover both. They put down the baby with the broken leg.  It's heartbreaking. Scared to take this little guy to them for fear all the time and effort I've put into him will be wasted.


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## Pigeonlove (May 6, 2008)

Thank you for taking care of him--he really needed you!


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

> Scared to take this little guy to them for fear all the time and effort I've put into him will be wasted.


CarrieFlanary, I'm sure you will get things organized for him to make him as comfortable as possible. You could always check before hand the PTS (put-to-sleep) policy of where you may take him ahead of time. I am not saying this is the case for this poor little guy, but sometimes with a traumatic injury there is swelling and pressure on nerve centers that take a good amount of time to heal, in order to regain proper flight/leg ability again. Sometimes many places don't have the resources or time it would take to bring a really hurt bird along and opt for PTS, and being a pigeon sometimes does not help matters.

Karyn


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

hi carrie, by law rehabbers have to put federally protected species down if they are unreleasable and they have to decided if the treatment would be inhumane.
i have had to put birds down with broken legs to because the only way their lives could be saved would be amputation cause the leg was so badley broken and they were not the kind of bird that does well with one leg, but i have released many gulls with one leg because they do all right.
pigeons are not federally protected which means you can seek out veterinary care for them and if they are un releaseable you can have them as a pet, doesn't necessarily mean that every injured one can or should be saved if they are suffering but a vet will help you figure it out.
the wildlife center probably would determine that also depending on their view of invasive species, some places won't give them the same chance as a federally protected bird but some will give them more of a chance, i know i do because i know i can probably find them a home if they cannot be released, 
i think it's great they were able to save the one with the broken wing, broken wings are hard to fix on little guys depending on the break of course


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Just a thought, but any chance this is a hen that recently laid an egg? (egg paralysis?)
This happened to one of my hens a couple months ago. Shortly after laying an egg, she had no use of her legs (same as described here). Cage rest for 2 weeks, she was as good as new. I also rescued one years ago on the side of the road - same symptoms. After a couple weeks of cage rest, food and water, she was fine again. BUT, every time she laid an egg - it reoccurred. So she could never be in a loft situation.
Just a thought


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Msfreebird said:


> Just a thought, but any chance this is a hen that recently laid an egg? (egg paralysis?)
> This happened to one of my hens a couple months ago. Shortly after laying an egg, she had no use of her legs (same as described here). Cage rest for 2 weeks, she was as good as new. I also rescued one years ago on the side of the road - same symptoms. After a couple weeks of cage rest, food and water, she was fine again. BUT, every time she laid an egg - it reoccurred. So she could never be in a loft situation.
> Just a thought


I was wondering about that too.


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## CarrieFlanary (Mar 17, 2010)

Sorry I haven't been here to reply today. I was at work all day and couldn't update. I was checking on the bird this morning and when she/he saw me coming, it stood straight up, lifted its head in a stretch and then fluffed its feathers all over the place. It wasn't a threatening movement as far as I could tell, but more of a happy greeting. No stress in the movements whatsoever. I was so thrilled to see it standing for the first time in so many days. I went to Petsmart to try to find a more suitable environment for it. A birdcage for medium birds was $100 giving no room for flight whatsoever. I found a ferret "home" that I thought would work really well. It is 2'x2' square and almost 4' tall. After I get it all set up, I'll send pics to make sure it's suitable.  I'm so relieved that it's doing so much better. Thank you all so much!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Oh that's wonderful! I'm so glad he is doing better. Looking forward to pics.


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Thanks for the positive update! Looking forward to pictures.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

CarrieFlanary, standing and a stretch/fluff/shake is a very good sign indeed. It was very kind of you to go and get him a new "home", sounds like it will be a suitable place for this little guy to rest and recuperate. When you post the photos, if you could post some are photos of his/her droppings it will help in getting a better idea just how (s)he is doing health wise. If you are up to it, giving him/her a good going over to look for any cuts, wounds or abrasions may be a good idea, to try and figure out how she/he came to be as found, take your time and part open the feathers if you suspect any area for a better look. 

Also, while examining him/her gently spread the wings open and have a look underneath and see if there are any thin, pencil-mark-like-specks that move around on his/her feathers. Some ferals have something called pigeon lice, don't worry they only like to live on pigeons, and are easy to get rid of and since this little guy is there with you, we might as well take care of them if they are there.

Finally, have a good look inside the mouth area, it should be pink and clear with no growths of any kind, report if you see anything other than a pink mouth.

Nice going,

Karyn


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## CarrieFlanary (Mar 17, 2010)

Pics are uploading to photobucket now. It has gotten too late for me to perform a full inspection. I am working a new job that is very demanding and of course my evening was short due to shopping and asking a million questions at Petsmart, setting up new cage, ripping up newspaper, reading about vitamins for its water, etc etc etc.

It's not standing all the time and at one point this evening fell forward with its tail up, so I watched for a minute and then hurried over to straighten it up. I included a pic of the cup of seed that was full last night. It has eaten and eaten and also drank so very much. It's amazing the difference between being here at my house vs sitting at the park. There was quite a bit of poo from today (which I did take a pic of). I imagine it was from eating and drinking so much. I bought the 8-in-1 vitamins to add to the water and the wild bird seed that is the fruit and nut variety. Petsmart didn't have a brochure on feeding pigeons, but did have one for doves and I knew from this site they were similar.

I hate referring to it as "it" but don't have a clue what to call it since I don't know if it's a girl or a boy. I will give him a day to rest in the bigger cage and will work on bath / inspection tomorrow after work. Just a minute and I'll post links to the pics.


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## CarrieFlanary (Mar 17, 2010)

Link to photos: http://pbckt.com/sJ.3UQ


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Very nice set up  And its a good sign that she stood up and stretched.
I could be wrong, but my gut is telling me its a hen with possible egg paralysis. _If it is - I would keep her on the lower level until the inflammation on the nerve goes down so that she has better use of her legs. You don't want her falling off that shelf._
When this happened to my birds, they could stand and stretch but when trying to walk they would stumble forward and try to use their wings as legs. My vet told me it took about 10 days of cage rest for the inflammation to go down. On day 8 they started slowly walking.
Other "favorites" of pigeons are - safflower seed, peanut hearts and sunflower hearts.
I still would do exactly what Dobato suggested to rule out other causes. But from your description and her posture, my guess is egg paralysis.
Very sweet looking bird! And its wonderful that you took her in.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Msfreebird said:


> I still would do exactly what Dobato suggested to rule out other causes. But from your description and her posture, my guess is egg paralysis.


Msfreebird, when I read your and Jay3's comments on possible egg paralysis, I thought to myself, good point, it will need to be looked into, that's why I want her to give this little guy a good going over to help narrow down just what grounded him/her. We may get a better idea after she has a chance to do a thorough inspection and post a few more clear photos of the droppings.

Your new house guest looks comfortable in a very nice set up. So when (s)he is hungry, (s)he is able to stand and get over to the dishes to eat and drink fairly OK now?

Karyn


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## CarrieFlanary (Mar 17, 2010)

Just got home and haven't even eaten dinner yet. (S)he has moved to the lower level on her own. (S)he is lying down again, but my daughter says (s)he was standing when she came home from school. There are two piles of poo on the towel, so I will get her/him all cleaned up in about an hour, inspect all over and post pics!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Great! Will look for the pics!


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## CarrieFlanary (Mar 17, 2010)

I'm worried I'm in over my head. I heard her moving while I was eating dinner, so I jumped up and took a pic of her standing in the cage. Then she laid down and won't stand. I just cleaned her up with lukewarm water. I have lifted her feathers and see no moving specks, which I'm sure is a good sign. I tried to stretch out her wings to check them and she snatched them away from me. Not sure how you get a bird to open their mouth to look inside? Any suggestions?


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## CarrieFlanary (Mar 17, 2010)

But she is lying there cooing right now!  Very cool!


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## CarrieFlanary (Mar 17, 2010)

I have an idea. Maybe I can get my daughter to use my cell phone to try to take a video and send that via youtube? Right now the pigeon is all puffed up and sleeping after her warm bath. She's so pretty.


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## CarrieFlanary (Mar 17, 2010)

Ok - inspection completed. 

Findings:

I lied - she does have lice. Does Walmart sell stuff for this? If not, it will have to wait until tomorrow.

Her feet are scraped and peeling from scooting around on the gravel. No matter how many times I moved her to the grassy area, she kept going back to the gravel. Like I said, I know NOTHING about birds and this never dawned on me. The left foot looks worse than the right. Scrape on left leg looks yellowy kind of like dried pus, but it was never pussy (sp?). 

She doesn't have a lot of strength in her legs and when she tries to stand up, she just continually pushes herself backwards. She will not walk at all, but does try to stand up. While examining, her legs only stood about halfway. Reminded me of the equivalent of a human sitting on rear with legs straight out front.

Wings seem fine. Like I said, she fights me and pulls them back when I try to pull them out. No feather missing, etc. I think all is well there.

Throat - figured out the trick. Doing this alone so was hard to see past both my fingers in the way, but all I saw was smooth and pink. Don't think there is anything to worry about there.

Took as many close up pics of feet as I could manage. If you see something that stands out other than the surface wounds on the tops of her feet, please do let me know. And if you have any ideas on how I can help heal those wounds, I am open to suggestions!

Link to pics: http://s152.photobucket.com/albums/s173/CFlanary/?newest=1

One pic of Grayson in bottom of cage standing (daughter named because it's gray). Others are on a red cloth as I was examining.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Well, we are going to have to try hard for Grayson, as I happen to have a bird with the same name.



> I lied - she does have lice. Does Walmart sell stuff for this? If not, it will have to wait until tomorrow.


No, you didn't lie, you are new at this and sometimes these little critters are hard to see at first. To take care of them you can pick up a spray bottle of this: http://www.rabbitmart.com/shop/index.php?page=shop-flypage-16075 , or something similar. This spray is pyrethrins based, a low toxicity insecticide, so if you do not find this exact one, make sure the one you find is pyrethrins based, almost any pet store will have it, Walmart might as well. To use, lift Grayson's wing and spray a few times under each one and then against the body/rib cage where the wing lays when folded. Although these critters prefer under the wing area, we want to give a spraying all over, except the head area to make sure we get them all, one spraying usually does it. Take a little rag, cover Grayson's head and give him a quick spray all over.

Wings sound good and throat as well, The weakness in Grayson's legs could be a few things, trauma from maybe being banged by a car, weakness from some sort of possible poisoning which is effecting Grayson's nervous system and as mentioned before, it could be a problem associated with egg paralysis. Which means that sometimes when a hen lays eggs, the laying of eggs drains the body of calcium reserves and this seems to help exacerbate any irritation of the sciatic nerve area when an egg is laid, also low calcium causes malformed eggs to be produced which can result in problems as well. There are few illnesses and infections that can cause grounding that can't be ruled out, but they are a little lower down on the scale right now.

We can try give Grayson some calcium, you may even have some around the house. What we need is something like a Caltrate tablet with Vitamin D. These calcium tablets are usually around 500-600mg. I want you to break/cut a tablet in half and give it to Grayson as shown here to "pop" a pigeon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uU1SO0ZJoow , one of our members, Feefo, made this clip and it's a good one, give 1/2 a tablet once only for now.

Grayson seems to have come a long way in a short time, if it's any of the first two causes I mentioned, it's going to take time and care to bring Grayson back around. If it's egg issues, I am hoping the calcium will help with this and this will also need some time as well to resolve. Sometimes with reproductive problems, infections do develop and I want to put it on your mind, if at all possible, that it would be a good idea to have what are called "fecal" tests done one Grayson's droppings. They generally are not too expensive, my vet charges $20-$30, depending on whether just a fecal float is done or both a float and gram stain are done. If a float and gram stain are done on Grayson's droppings we be able to tell if the few other illnesses/infections that I mentioned earlier were present and whether there is an infection present that may need treated with antibiotics. If you decide to do this call around, many vets will do fecal tests without having to bring the bird in, just say you have a pet pigeon that you would like fecals done on, can they do it?

The feet don't look too bad, a little bit of antibiotic cream rubbed on them should be good, wash the feet up well, of course, before applying.

Need some photos of Greyson's droppings.

Keep up the good work,

Karyn


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

CarrieFlanary said:


> I'm worried I'm in over my head....I tried to stretch out her wings to check them and she snatched them away from me....


Such a new situation is bound to feel unsettling, but you seem to have good instincts and are asking excellent questions. Snatching the wings back is a good sign at this stage!



CarrieFlanary said:


> ...Her feet are scraped and peeling from scooting around on the gravel...Scrape on left leg looks yellowy kind of like dried pus, but it was never pussy (sp?)...


Some of the peeling could be due to normal shedding of skin. The scales on bird legs are refreshed/shed annually. On pigeons, pus tends to be solid rather than liquid.

Lovely choice of name for this bird!

Regarding the pyrethrin spray, try to find a product for birds or cats rather than dogs. Sometime the canine version will have additional chemicals that are toxic to birds.


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## CarrieFlanary (Mar 17, 2010)

Grayson seems to be doing great! Of course, I am by no means an expert, but she's up on her legs more often I can't thank you all enough for your help. I did buy the Pyrenthin spray for birds and treated her. Thank you so much for the tips on that.

Her poo is nice and thick and also a very distinct 2 colors - black and white. Reading up on pigeon poo I understand the white to be the bird version of urine and black to be fecal waste. So I think this is good as well? 

She is standing a little more often now, but still not walking. Her legs seem to be her only issue at this point. She is eating and drinking and can move about the bottom of the cage. When I hold her in my hand and move around, she drops her tail and I can feel the tension in her feet as she works to balance herself. Another good sign in my opinion and much more than I got from her a few days ago.

If this IS post egg paralysis, does that mean she'll never be able to be released? If I need to keep her, I absolutely will. It just wasn't my plan. But I certainly don't want to get her healthy, let her go and a few weeks later she's down again but not as lucky.  Any thoughts about this?

You guys really are phenomenal! Thank you so much!


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## Pigeonlove (May 6, 2008)

You are doing great! If you do end up keeping him, which is what lots of us end up doing, there will be lots of "on the job" training! I learned so much about sicknesses and medicine from "all bird products". www.allbirdproducts.com. Good luck, and keep us posted!


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

CarrieFlanary said:


> Grayson seems to be doing great! Of course, I am by no means an expert, but she's up on her legs more often I can't thank you all enough for your help. I did buy the Pyrenthin spray for birds and treated her. Thank you so much for the tips on that.
> 
> Her poo is nice and thick and also a very distinct 2 colors - black and white. Reading up on pigeon poo I understand the white to be the bird version of urine and black to be fecal waste. So I think this is good as well?
> 
> ...


I'm glad to hear that she's feeling better. The poops sound much better.
If it IS egg paralysis - that is very painful when they try to move their legs because of the inflammation on the nerve. Dropping of the tail is usually a sign of pain.
Cage rest and as little leg movement as possible is best. Unfortunately, once it occurs, the possibility of it happening again is very good - I was told.
If it was me, having had this happen to a couple of hen's, I wouldn't release her.
All my birds get Hi-cal grit AND a separate dish of oyster shell and that didn't seem to make a difference for my 2 hen's that had it. The only thing my 2 had in common was that they are older hen's. So I really don't know what the underlying cause is.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> Her poo is nice and thick and also a very distinct 2 colors - black and white. Reading up on pigeon poo I understand the white to be the bird version of urine and black to be fecal waste. So I think this is good as well?


Are you certain it is black, not dark brown? It shouldn't be black unless she has been eating something like activated carbon.


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## CarrieFlanary (Mar 17, 2010)

Feefo - no I'm not sure it is black. In examining poo, I just noticed the very dark and the white. They were little swirls of solid waste. It looked much better than the gritty wet poo she had earlier and much more like the healthy pics of poo I had seen in researching pigeon poo. LOL Who would have thought I'd be scrutinizing poo? 

So if she can't be released, I will have a lot more questions. 
1) How long will it take until the pain eases and she is able to walk/fly again?
2) Don't pigeons need to fly periodically? Seems cruel to keep her in a cage 24/7.
3) Are pigeons social animals? Will she need a mate? Is it ok to keep just ONE bird?

Again, I can't thank you guys enough!


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

CarrieFlanary said:


> So if she can't be released, I will have a lot more questions.
> 1) How long will it take until the pain eases and she is able to walk/fly again?
> 2) Don't pigeons need to fly periodically? Seems cruel to keep her in a cage 24/7.
> 3) Are pigeons social animals? Will she need a mate? Is it ok to keep just ONE bird?
> ...


It sounds like you are doing a wonderful job with her.

Poo does tell alot about a pigeon, and please keep a close eye on it. The only thing I can add, is to have her examined by a qualified avian vet, and see what may be going on inside. If she had egg issues or injury/infection it might be the next step to consider.

You can allow her to free fly in an enclosed patio or empty room. 

Yes, pigeons are social creatures, I wouldn't worry about her getting a mate at all right now, maybe down the road...another hen.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Msfreebird said:


> .
> All my birds get Hi-cal grit AND a separate dish of oyster shell and that didn't seem to make a difference for my 2 hen's that had it. The only thing my 2 had in common was that they are older hen's. So I really don't know what the underlying cause is.


Ya know, I don't think they all eat the oyster shell. I have a little hopper with one side Hi-Cal grit, and the other is Oyster shell. The grit goes down quickly, but the oyster shell hardly at all. And I bought the small one, so don't know why they don't seem to like it.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

CarrieFlanary, glad to hear you picked up the spray to evict Grayson's unwanted tenants. Did you manage to pick up the calcium and give Grayson some? With the droppings, sometimes they can be quite dark in color looking almost black, when they are actually extremely dark green to brown, if you take a bit of one of these dark droppings on the end of a Q-tip and smear it across a white piece of paper, you will able to see the true color from the smear.

Well, now that we know Grayson is stable I think we should go back a bit and start with some basics. Do you or a friend have a kitchen weigh scale, as I would like to get a weight on Grayson? To do this we want to weigh Grayson in the morning before Grayson has had a chance to eat or drink anything. To help in this, I would like, if you could, that late night just before bed, for you to take out Grayson's water and food, so in the morning we are getting the best reading on true body mass, as Grayson will have had overnight to pass droppings as well, so we are weighing as little body waste as possible. Of course, put back the food and water right after weighing Grayson. How does Grayson's breast area feel to you, is it full feeling or does the breast bone seem in anyway prominent/sharp feeling to you?

With regards to the egg paralysis, this condition is usually self limiting, meaning that within 48-72 hours, you usually see a good deal of improvement, especially after a large dose of calcium has been given. It is now going on a week, that we know of, and Grayson still is not able to easily stand or walk, indicating that although this is perhaps still a possibility my gut is telling me that this may be a less likely, than a more likely case as the cause of Grayson's debilitation. I had another look at all of the photos of Grayson you have taken and posted and Grayson's overall feather condition looks to be in remarkably good condition, indicating whatever it is/was was fairly sudden onset.

CarrieFlanary, I think the goal always is with an injured feral to get the bird healed and returned to whence it came. In order to do this we try and figure out, as best we can, exactly what the illness/injury is and start treatment for same. Sometimes in the diagnosing there are very clear indicators of just what is wrong with a bird and when symptoms are described and posted, then from experience we know what treatments or medicines to tell people are required and that should be started. In cases like Grayson's, when nothing so far is the obvious cause of debilitation, we need to make certain decisions in order to better help confirm a diagnosis, in order to tell us which way to go.

One of these decisions is whether to involve a vet and to what degree, or to see if there is a sympathetic rehabber in your area that could take the case on, or a wildlife center that will take in a hurt pigeon that has the time and resources to slowly bring a badly debilitated pigeon back to health and not PTS. The thing is vets cost money and many times a local rehabber is not a possibility or is a wildlife center that could provide extended care for a hurt pigeon. As I mentioned earlier, it would help a great deal to have have fecals done, to help eliminate a number of things and point us in a more narrow direction and the full step would be to take Grayson in to an avian vet for a full exam, as nothing can beat experienced hands holding and going over an ill/injured bird. If this is not in your budget right now, as with many people who come here it isn't, we could continue as we are doing, taking it a day at a time. The good news is Grayson is stable, getting a little better than little worse and warmth, time and care, as I said before, can go a long way to bringing their health back.

I think before we get too far ahead of our selves with discussing the possibility that Grayson will be unreleasable, which may end still end up being the case by the way, we focus on trying to nail down a diagnosis and see if there is a treatment regime that can be started for Grayson, to return health to this bird.

Karyn


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Dobato said:


> *With regards to the egg paralysis, this condition is usually self limiting, meaning that within 48-72 hours, you usually see a good deal of improvement, especially after a large dose of calcium has been given. It is now going on a week, that we know of, and Grayson still is not able to easily stand or walk, indicating that although this is perhaps still a possibility my gut is telling me that this may be a less likely, than a more likely case as the cause of Grayson's debilitation.* I had another look at all of the photos of Grayson you have taken and posted and Grayson's overall feather condition looks to be in remarkably good condition, indicating whatever it is/was was fairly sudden onset.
> 
> Karyn


Last month when I had a "post egg paralysis" I took her to the vet. He said it usually takes about 10 days to get relief. On day 8 she started walking, by day 12 she was back to herself.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Msfreebird said:


> Last month when I had a "post egg paralysis" I took her to the vet. He said it usually takes about 10 days to get relief. On day 8 she started walking, by day 12 she was back to herself.


Thanks for posting this information, this is helpful. I went through a number of older threads here and it seemed for most after 2-3 days they were coming back. How was she at 1 week?

Karyn


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Dobato said:


> Thanks for posting this information, this is helpful. I went through a number of older threads here and it seemed for most after 2-3 days they were coming back. How was she at 1 week?
> 
> Karyn


At 1 week (day 5) she was still stumbling and falling forward. Would use her wings for balance. About day 7 she would she was a little more stable, day 8 she took slow steps and started stretching here wings and legs outward.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Thanks again Msfreebird, at least now we have a time frame for what could be considered a more lengthy bout of this malady, as we need all the information we can get to help narrow this down.

Karyn


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## CarrieFlanary (Mar 17, 2010)

I'm failing in my posting duties. I do not have a scale as of right now. I can probably pick one up tomorrow. I didn't get home from work until 7:30 last night, but Grayson really seemed a lot better. She was standing when I got home and even flapped her wings a few times in the cage. I have her in my dining room, which is blocked off by baby gates because of my dogs. Every time I would step around the corner to watch her flap her wings, she would stop and look at me, so I didn't get to witness it firsthand. I did find the name of one avian vet in Mobile, so I will call and see if I can have a fecal done. It will be tomorrow before I can even entertain the idea. I don't want to sound uninterested, as I am anxious to get this little one healed. It has just gotten so crazy busy lately. I went from no job for a year to working long hours at first job and finishing up a 2nd contract job that has a deadline. Fun fun fun.

And no I didn't pick up any calcium. I had a friend pick up the lice treatment as I was working late that night. I will stop tonight and pick some up. I did watch the great video showing how to administer so I feel confident I can do it.

Karyn, I really appreciate your patience and your detailed thoughts regarding this little lady. As I said, if need be I'll keep her and let her live out her life (learning more and more as I go along), but I would think she would be happier living free again. I will take updated pics tonight as well.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

I don't think you are failing in your posting duties, I think that life has a way sometimes of keeping us very occupied and I also think that because Grayson is slowly improving, that your mind is enough at ease that you are not in a panic about Grayson's state of health, if Grayson were slowly declining, I think you would be posting much more often, so I take this a a good sign.

Well, your reports continue to be positive on the way Grayson's condition is heading, her standing more and the desire to want to exercise are very positive indicators. Let's hope as Mcfreebird mentioned above, that this could just be a more lengthy bout of paralysis and time, care and some boosting of calcium reserves will get Grayson back in order, good to hear about the fecals as well. I do think they are important, as sometimes when a bird is weaken by one malady, when in a weaken state, other secondary issues can exert their presence and the fecals will inform on this.

Yes, please get a current weight on her, as this will be helpful to let us know about Grayson's general health, weight will give us an indication if she has been ill for a while, as if she is in a normal weight range this will point to something of a sudden onset nature, please do it soon, as I am sure she is eating like a horse and we want to get an idea of her weight before she starts to really gain from your care and let's get the calcium into her ASAP as well, remember 1/2 a tablet, once only for now, you can break the 1/2 into two pieces to make it easier to pop.

You don't have to be too worried right now about spending a lot of time caring and administering to Grayson, food, water and a safe please to rest and recuperate, which she has, will allow you to mostly carry on life as normal, without having to feel you always have to be there for her, until further determinations can be made.

Keep up the good work, and I think Grayson is very fortunate she found you, if it does come to it, I think she would have a wonderful "forever" home with you.

Karyn


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## Pigeonlove (May 6, 2008)

*Cola has the same problem*

Carrieflanary. Something happened to me, and all I could think, through my tears, was you. I have two rescue Pigeons...Gary has a birth defect and he has no bottom beak. Larri, the female, is a beautiful Old Dutch Capuchine. I built them an outdoor aviary, and they had babies. The babies are 5 weeks old and really cute! Yesterday the bigger of the two (Pepsi), left the nest box and played on the perches. The other one (Cola), was still in the box. Because they seem hardy and pretty much ready to leave the nest, I picked up Cola to get a closer look at him. When I put him back, he hopped about an inch into the nest box. Not far at all. But now he can't stand. He kind of scoots and uses his wings like crutches to get around. I am devistated. I can't see how I could have possibly hurt him. I took him to my Pigeon expert lady, and she said she has never seen this before. He was walking around previous to this, and showed no signs of any injury. She said his feet did feel kind of floppy, but couldn't feel any break or dislocations. I totally know how you feel...it is so heartbreaking seeing him in this condition. I'm hoping with TLC he will recover. Good luck with your sweet Grayson. I just needed to talk to someone who understands.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I read your post about your pigeon that can't walk. Probably it's fixable. Please make an appointment with this vet. He's really great with pigeons
Dr Funk
858 N. Country Club Dr
Mesa, Arizona 85201
480-833-7330


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## CarrieFlanary (Mar 17, 2010)

Pigeonlove, I am so sorry! I do hope Cola will be okay! Keep us updated!

I have finally solved the mystery regarding Grayson and it is NOT post egg paralysis. I spoke to the lady at the Environmental Center again today about Grayson. I wanted to find out if they would keep her as I just am not sure how happy she would be living in a small ferret cage all the time. 

It turns out that my call was the first indication of anything wrong with the pigeons in Downtown Mobile. About 50 pigeons were brought to the Center a couple of weeks ago due to a mass poisoning. The pigeons all presented with the same symptoms - NEUROLOGICAL SYMPTOMS & LEG PARALYSIS. Of the 50 pigeons she treated, only 3 survived and have gone on to be released. 

Grayson has been picking through her feathers, flapping her wings and prancing around the cage, so I brought her out and let her sit beside me on the sofa for a while. It took her quite a while to gather up the courage, but she finally took a chance and flew across the room! THEN she flew up, landed on the blade of the ceiling fan! Poor baby. She'd flap her wings to get her balance and the fan starting going around! She is now exhausted from her little bit of flying. I'd say she's about 80% recovered. She will be going to live at the Environmental Center. Sue said she would absolutely finish the rehab with her. This is great news as she certainly knows much more than I about helping her! She wanted me to thank you all for helping me and let you know that it's a miracle this baby made it!

SOOOOO how's that for a happy ending?


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

CarrieFlanary, what truly wonderful news!

There is no doubt Grayson would not have made it without your caring intervention. You did a great job with this little one, and this is indeed a very happy ending.

Take care and you know where to come if you ever need help again,

Karyn


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

What a wonderful update. Hoping for good things for her in the future. Thanks.


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## altgirl35 (Sep 5, 2008)

awesome update, and great save she's one lucky birdie to have found you.
that's horrible that these animals were harmed intentionally, but at least you met a kind hearted soul that wants to help them and you know where to go for help if you ever come across another critter in need


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

CarrieFlanary said:


> Pigeonlove, I am so sorry! I do hope Cola will be okay! Keep us updated!
> 
> I have finally solved the mystery regarding Grayson and it is NOT post egg paralysis. I spoke to the lady at the Environmental Center again today about Grayson. I wanted to find out if they would keep her as I just am not sure how happy she would be living in a small ferret cage all the time.
> 
> ...


I'm so glad Grayson is doing so well and that you have gotten to the bottom of what may have caused this. I'm so sorry to learn about the fate of the pigeons that were poisoned at the hands of some ill-uneducated humans. Your intervention certainly saved Grayson's life and enabling him a long, happy and healthy life too.


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## Pigeonlove (May 6, 2008)

I'm so happy for you, you saved a life! I'm sure you will miss him, but it is good you are doing what you feel is best for him. I will keep you updated on Cola. Good for you, again, for saving Grayson. Joni (Pigeonlove)


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## Pigeonlove (May 6, 2008)

*Update on Cola*

Now that Grayson is in good hands, I want to update everyone on Cola. It appeared Cola had the same problem. Well, Cola has made a complete recovery! I was going to call the Vet, (thank you Charis!) but with some TLC Cola slowly started standing, then walking and now flying! He still looks a bit younger than his sibling, but doing really well! Mom is on the left, then Daddy (Gary, a rescue with no lower beak), Pepsi, then Cola on the right!


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

I'm glad to hear everyone is doing good 
What a nice looking little family - they look like mom 
You did a great job!


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Beautiful update and picture---Thanks c.hert


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Pigeonlove...I suspect Cola has internal canker by looking at his develpoment compared to the sibling....just doesn't look quite right. Often one baby will be less developed than the other and canker and/or worms are often the culprit.
Do you have metronidazole and a pigeon first aid kit?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I have to agree with Charis.


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## Pigeonlove (May 6, 2008)

*Wow, I didn't even think about that!*

Thank you all for the concern. (And compliments) I do notice that Cola is more of a runt. I never even thought about it being worms or Canker. Can a parent pass worms on to a baby? Daddy (Gary) was a park Pigeon I found when he was a squeaker. He was SKINNY because he couldn't eat off the ground, and he had bugs. I tube fed him until he learned to eat on his own, and bought some bug spray from All Bird Products. Mommy, (Larri-my sons thought she was a boy!) was found outside a barber shop in Arizona in the summer. I figure she was somebody's pet who got lost, but she had no band. I put out flyers, but never found the owner. (Not that I'm complaining!) I was so much in love with them, I built them an outdoor aviary, then they fell in love!

I have Flagyl. (125mg) But I don't know the dose for the young birds. I am SCARED to pick Cola up after what happened last time! I pet him all the time, but don't want to hurt him again! I have worm out gel which I can put in the water, or crop. I just have to figure out the dosage on it. I bought it when I ordered the bug spray. It says 2 pumps per 320ml of water-I'm used to cups and ounces!! I think I'll try to start that for all my birds-- but will it hurt the 6 week old youngsters? Or I can crop administer it, .05ml per 100g of body weight. I would almost rather do that, if I could figure out their weight. I'm so confused!!! But thanks to Jay3 and C.hert and Charis, I am on the worm band wagon! Time to get worming--so much to look forward to!!


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Can you weigh them with a kitchen scale?


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