# Dove Vomiting



## Picollo30 (Oct 18, 2011)

Hi guys my dove started vomiting today. I changed her food these past two days cause i didnt have the opportunity to buy the food she's used too eat. But i think there's more to it, she's moulting and layed a egg this past week (normal for this season?). Im giving her calcium mixed with vitamin d mixed with her food. 

I dont know what it could be why this is happening, she vomits the food like she is regurgitating it, then drinks some water, hiccups and then ruffles up her feathers and closes her eyes, like she's very sleepy.

please someone help me. could the problem be the change in the food or is it a parasite or a bigger problem?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Is she really a dove or is she a pigeon?Some people call pigeons, doves.


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## Picollo30 (Oct 18, 2011)

its really a dove, a collared dove (but in this case the black collar is absent)

http://www.rspb.org.uk/images/cache/cd300_tcm9-137458_v2.jpg

like the one in this pic


i'm worried, i can't even sleep. i have a strong bond with this bird. i've called the avian vet tonight and he says if the vomiting continues i need to take the dove for examination asap.


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## bdpigeons (Feb 4, 2012)

Vomiting could cause form many reason. However, if you would like to go for natural products. 
Folic acid, apple cider and ginger will help. If you think she need antibiotic and you don't have get papaya hand feed the seeds. Also mix turmeric powder with feeds since it's dry you could use little olive oil or if you are hand feeding you could add little extra with the feeds.

bdpigeons.weebly.com


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

If this coincides with the change in diet, the new feed may be contaminated with fungus or toxins. In any case I wouldn't wait for this pass, but take her to the vet right away. In the meantime I wouldn't feed her the same food.


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## Picollo30 (Oct 18, 2011)

bdpigeons do you think the vomiting could be due to her not digesting the food well because it's not the best for her?

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4133/5086489540_8a4302f2f6_b.jpg

this looks more like pigeon food rather then dove's food although the seller told me otherwise. the food i always give my dove are smaller seeds

http://www.gjwtitmuss.co.uk/dove-mixture/pid21372/cid898/verselelaga-prestige-turtle-dove-20kg.asp


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I think taking her to the vet, ASAP, is a very god idea. I agree that the vomiting can be caused by many different things but often, canker and yeast are a cause. Stress can bring on a canker outbreak and you have mentioned that she had a change of food, laid an egg and is molting. Just one of those things can be stressful, for a bird.


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## bdpigeons (Feb 4, 2012)

Picollo,

Vomiting often cause by paratyphoid, stress, digestion or many others. On your first picture looks like a lot of corn which is ok but not good for dove diet. Give small mix seeds and you could have little corn but not much. During winter you could give little extra cracked corn. Are you giving grits for digestion? You know dove can't digest without grits. If you don't have grits give little crashed charcoal, brick or even dart and it will pick from it. However, you can't go wrong with turmeric. It's natural way to keep liver and system clean.

www.bdpigeons.weebly.com


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## Picollo30 (Oct 18, 2011)

i think i should add this

she lives inside our house and we go to bed late at night, so she ears noises and sees lights so maybe her sleep quality is not good. she has adopted a strange habit of sleeping for a couple of weeks now coming to think of it. 

i cover the cage with blankets so its warmer and cozy for her at night, leaving the front of the cage uncovered for her to breathe. thing is she sleeps near the unconvered part of the cage but with her head against the light and to the inside of the cage where is darker. she didnt do this before.


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## Picollo30 (Oct 18, 2011)

checked droopings today and they are lime green, both solid and watery. what could it be?


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Lime green could be paratyphoid, e. coli and a lot of other things. If she hasn't been eating her droppings may also be mostly bile, which is green in color too, but a deeper artist's oil paint kind of green. A vet should do a fecal as soon as possible so that you can start treating her. Please do not delay.


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## Picollo30 (Oct 18, 2011)

i'm low in cash and unemployed but when you love your animals everything is worth it. i've already called the avian vet and have an appointment today afternoon. hope it's nothing serious.

i will keep posting as soon as i have new info about her status.


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Picollo30 said:


> i'm low in cash and unemployed but when you love your animals everything is worth it.


Exactly! You're really doing right by your friend, and by acting so quickly you're giving her the best chance at a speedy recovery.

Will be waiting for your update. Good luck.


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## Picollo30 (Oct 18, 2011)

ok guys took my dove to the avian vet but i feel ripped off, i spent €78 in drooping an blood exams plus deworming but my dove feels even sleepy and lethargic than when i replied in the morning

vet says she didnt found any parasites, saw no signs of canker, and is wating for tomorrow for the result of the blood exams to see if it's an infection (im inclined to liver) or if she is tired because of the moulting or egg laying.

i brought her home cause the doctor wanted my dove to stay there for the night but i suspect why. because she knows that she's going to die

my dove since i brought her home is even sleepier and tired,only opening eyes when im near her, tail bobbing no open beak though, poop turned from lime green to a pasty yellow and she's not touching food. 

she was ok in the vet or she was faking the illness symptons as birds do. i feel my lovely friend will pass away tonight (i really hope not) but i had the same experience with another dove i had. at least she will be in her home with those who love her.

i still think the doctor knows what she has but didnt told me and just wanted to grab the money. i feel very sad and frustrated. i tried what i could, strange thing is these symptons escalated in two days.


btw she gave me Axitol Pan to mix in the water. Is anyone here familiar with it?


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## almondman (Aug 22, 2009)

Thank you for caring enough to take the bird to the vet. I'm sorry you didn't have a better experience. At least you now know a few things that are not wrong with your bird. I can not help you with the meds, but hopefully it will help. Good luck, and please keep us informed as to how it's doing.


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Picollo, 
oh, I'm so sorry you did not get the help we were hoping for.

If she is not eating, you need to hand feed her immediately. Regurgitating and not eating is extremely exhausting regardless of the cause, especially for a delicate collared dove. Please, also put her on a heating pad so that she's not using up the little energy she has left for that. I had very good luck with feeding soaked puppy chow to a very sick pigeon who was vomiting up everything. It's very easy to digest and because it's soaked it adds hydration too. I fed a little bit at a time every three hours. I was given excellent advice by a member here to give a couple of drops of pepto bismol before feeding - it really helps to stop the vomiting. I don't know if you can get it in Portugal. It's for people for upset stomach and over here is sold over the counter. Pepto Bismol is the brand name, bismuth subsalicylate is the active ingredient.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Canker doesn't always show. Did they do a crop smear? Or check the droppings for bacteria?


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## Picollo30 (Oct 18, 2011)

Jay3 said:


> Canker doesn't always show. Did they do a crop smear? Or check the droppings for bacteria?


they did check the droppings for bacteria at least they said they did, because it wasnt analyzed in front of my eyes.


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

The blood draw and the deworming can be a lot of stress on a bird that is already sick. And your bird is still not on medication - from what I can find online (although none of it is in a language I speak), it seems the Axitol Pan that the vet gave you to put in her water is not a medication, but simply a multivitamin. 

I had a pigeon with lime green droppings that then turned pasty yellow and went on for weeks. I was sure it was his liver, and so was his vet, but his blood test showed absolutely normal function. There was also a suspicion for chlamydia, but that also turned out to be normal. To this day I'll never know what caused this. However, my bird wasn't showing any of the sick bird symptoms that yours is showing. When the bird is going downhill fast, waiting for the test results before beginning medication is often not an option, so I hope you vet starts her on something soon.


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## Picollo30 (Oct 18, 2011)

she's eating by helself but not much, just a few seeds and she has trouble to swallow them and she's also drinking lots of water. her droopings are now a watery white with some brown. still waiting for the results of the blood analysis to check what's going on.


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Thanks for the update.

Jay3 is right - canker is not always visible, and excessive thirst can be one of it's symptoms. Again, please do hand feed her if she's not eating enough on her own.


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## Picollo30 (Oct 18, 2011)

if it's canker how can i treat her? do the blood exams tell if canker is present? the vet checked her throat and beak and it was clean, no ulcers.


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

I don't think canker can be detected through a blood test, but I may be wrong. A crop swab can detect the protozoa that cause canker. It can also check for yeast. You can put a couple of drops of apple cider vinegar in her water - it discourages the growth of pathogenic bacteria and yeast. Flagyl (metronidazole) - a human medication as well as Spartrix (carnidazole) and ronidazole are all effective against canker.


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## Picollo30 (Oct 18, 2011)

OK the exams came in not the hemogram but the chemical, everything is normal except the liver enzyme which is slightly high. Vet recommended Levolac and Legalon and Baytril. She wants to protect the liver and eliminate any infection that might be ocurring.

Still waiting for the hemogram test results


Do you guys think my dove Afonsa can still live through this? My other dove died due to a liver infection. I cant stand losing her. My only hope is that her droopings seem normal now and she seems more awake and even "laughs" when jumping from perch to perch. it's a good sign yes?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

You can't tell by just looking if canker is present because it can just as likely be internal and often does affect the liver. The only way to know if canker is present, is to do a throat of crop swab.
It does sound like canker to me. If she were here, I would treat her with flagyl [metronidazole] and the baytril the vet recommended. Can you get flagy without a vet's script?
Also, can you hand feed her?


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Picollo, 

I think your dove can make it with the right treatment, and I'd really go with Charis's advice - she's had tons of experience. Please start the metronidazole and Baytril as soon as possible. The Legalon the vet recommended is milk thistle and it certainly can't hurt - it's a wonderful herb that detoxifies the liver, but it cannot cure an infection, and it takes a long time to have any effect.

The Levolac is lactulose, and I have no idea about that - maybe Charis can advise.

Flagyl (metronidazole) is a human medication - could you perhaps get it from a friendly doctor if a prescription is required?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

In humans lactulose is used to treat people with liver disease, by reducing the amount of ammonia in the blood.


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

I see - thanks, Jay.


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## Picollo30 (Oct 18, 2011)

but what could be causiing the liver enzyme to be high? food? a dormant fungus in the liver (i bought her as a baby in a birds market)? this happened so fast, she was great these past days.


fortunately my brother works @ a pharmacy and he can get me the laevolac and the legalon (they are perfectly secure right?) without prescription but he cant get me baytril.

where do i buy it? also are flagyl and baytril the same thing or they are a complement to each other?


As for my dove she is eating better by herself, she actually seems at times more aware and she even kissed my fingers, she likes to put her beak between them  but i noticed she's not 100%

maybe the deworming and axitol (multivitamin) helped a little and she is fighting the infection but im playing it safe and buy those medicines.

edit: While taking blood for the exams they took it from her left foot and now she is always raising and stretching the foot where they took the blood. is it normal to take blood from the birds feet?


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Picollo30 said:


> but what could be causiing the liver enzyme to be high? food? a dormant fungus in the liver (i bought her as a baby in a birds market)? this happened so fast, she was great these past days.


Aflatoxins / Mycotoxins can be present on contaminated grain - they are produced by molds and damage the liver because they are metabolized by it. I would suspect the food, since she started having problems directly after the new feed you gave her - I hope you are not still giving her that. 

Flagyl and Baytril are different - flagyl is for protozoa - canker, Baytril is for bacterial infections. BTW, Baytril (enrofloxacin) is the animal equivalent of the human antibiotic ciprofloxacin - different molecule, same spectre of activity. Perhaps your brother can get the cipro if the reason he can't get the Baytril is that it's a veterinary drug. 

Several locations can be used for drawing blood in birds. I think the jugular vein (the neck) is often used. My vet uses the wing vein, but the medial metatarsal vein (in the leg) is perhaps a good idea for a pigeon with suspected liver problems, because they can have issues with blood not clotting properly, and applying a pressure bandage to the leg is much easier than to the neck or wing. My pigeon bled quite a bit when he had blood drawn from the wing, even the vet was taken aback. The vet told me he wouldn't be using his wing much for that day and the following and he was right. So I think what your dove is doing with her foot following the blood draw is normal, and should pass in a day or so.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Picollo30 said:


> but what could be causiing the liver enzyme to be high? food? a dormant fungus in the liver (i bought her as a baby in a birds market)? this happened so fast, she was great these past days.
> 
> Most often it isn't fast, it just seems so. I'm wondering if the canker has settled in her liver. What color are her droppings?Canker often makes the white part of the dropping yellow.
> 
> ...


Some do clip a nail just beyond the quick and take blood from that site.


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## Picollo30 (Oct 18, 2011)

> Most often it isn't fast, it just seems so. I'm wondering if the canker has settled in her liver. What color are her droppings?Canker often makes the white part of the dropping yellow.


Now the urine is transparent (due to her drinking too much water), the stool is light brown with some white urates or sometimes that pasty /creamy yellow i told before. 

I told the vet over the phone if hidden Trichomonas in the liver area could be the cause even though she said nothing appeared on the bacteria/protozoan tests she did.

She is inclined to a liver infection even though the liver enzyme counts are not according to her off the charts. So she recommended treatment with Baytril and Laevolac/Legalon. Could she miss the canker in the liver? Im also inclined to canker you know, the symptoms are very similar, regurgitation, difficulty eating, drinking too much, ruffled feathers and apathy (although no tail bobbing or respiratory problems, beak is always closed), yellow urates.

Should i ask her if should use Flagyl along with Baytril as well just in case? 

The tricky part here is what's causing the yellow urates. bacteria causing liver disease? canker? can be lots of things. i forgot to add that the yellow is not a strong, bright yellow


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Picollo30 said:


> Her droopings started from watery lime green, to a pasty yellowish and now they are transparent (due to her drinking too much water), light brown with some white.


That is exactly how my pigeon was. First I started noticing an occasional yellow urate now and then, then his droppings turned intense blue green - because of all the biliverdin from the liver. Then they became lime green, and when they turned to yellow I lost all hope because I had read that indicated advanced liver disease. My vet thought the change to yellow was actually a positive development. After the yellow, they turned brownish and more transparent before normalizing weeks later. They were watery the entire time as well. I too suspected internal canker affecting the liver, but my vet said a pigeon with internal canker will appear very sick (which mine did not in the least) - like your pigeon. So I guess it may well be that.


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## Picollo30 (Oct 18, 2011)

i was surfing the web looking for internal canker and saw this:

"Ronidazole is the most used drug in treating the canker in pigeons. Lately, dimetridazole and metronidazole were removed from the market being risky for health."

So Flagyl is a no go?


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Picollo30 said:


> So Flagyl is a no go?


It's actually a pretty safe and very effective medication with a wide safety margin. There is risk of liver damage only when used for longer than 14 days. Many, many members on here have used it - it's often the number one choice for canker.


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## Picollo30 (Oct 18, 2011)

hi guys the hemogram test results of my dove came today and they point to a liver infection, the white blood cell count is higher than expected. she's going to be treated with baytril laevolac and legalon, the vet will also do a crop wash to get rid of trychomones/canker.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If your bird has canker, then a crop wash won't get rid of it. Looking at the contents would show that he has canker, but won't get rid of it. He would need to be treated for it. Flagyl would be good. I would definitely treat for canker.


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

The crop wash is a diagnostic tool, and only a treatment for a crop that's not passing, but won't touch the canker. She'll still need meds. I wonder why the vet didn't do the crop wash the first time. How is the dove today?


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## Picollo30 (Oct 18, 2011)

@jay 

so i can treat liver infection with baytril and flagyl for internal canker, that way i treat both illnesses right?

those are given separately? and for how many days and when?

thanks for all your help


i read online that both regular exercise and sunlight are also good for liver diseases.


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## Picollo30 (Oct 18, 2011)

nycpigeonlady said:


> The crop wash is a diagnostic tool, and only a treatment for a crop that's not passing, but won't touch the canker. She'll still need meds. I wonder why the vet didn't do the crop wash the first time. How is the dove today?


dove seems better, more energetic but urates are still yellow with light brown stool. still drinking a lot.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Picollo30 said:


> @jay
> 
> so i can treat liver infection with baytril and flagyl for internal canker, that way i treat both illnesses right?
> 
> ...




Use the Baytril as your vet has told you, probably 10 days. You can give that in the morning, and the canker med later afternoon or evening. I would do the canker med for 7 days, and then see how it goes. Also, I would ask him for Nystatin, because you are using Baytril. Baytril can cause a yeast infection, so you would give it at least as long as the Baytril, and maybe a couple more days just to make sure. Nystatin can be given along with the Baytril, or a coupole hours later. If your dove is still vomiting, you can give a drop or two of Pepto before giving the meds.


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Picollo30 said:


> Could she miss the canker in the liver?


The only way to be sure is to do a liver biopsy which is very, very risky for a little dove and not something you should do.

The thing about many medical tests in birds is that they are useful for ruling things in, but not so useful for ruling things out. In other words, if a test is positive for something, the bird definitely has it, but if the test is negative that doesn't necessarily rule it out. 

I would think though, if she did have internal canker she wouldn't be getting better but much worse and fast.


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## Picollo30 (Oct 18, 2011)

hi guys dove is eating great, like she was starving and more lively. she even cooed a little when she saw me approaching the cage. 

today's droopings were more solid, had huge amounts of white urates and less brown stool but nevertheless its a good sign i think compared to the yellow urates.

giving her the baytril and the liver protector yesterday seems to have helped im going to continue with it till next wednesday so it completes a week of treatment.

i'm not using mycostatin, asked the vet if it was necessary because of fungus due to baytril and she says it can happen but not often.what do you think?

thanks for your great help.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Do use the mycostatin. It is very important. *Every time* a give baytril I also give an anti fungal because *more often than not*, a yeast infection develops which can make a bird very sick.


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## Picollo30 (Oct 18, 2011)

charis how do i give her the mycostatin mixed in the water or through syringe in her mouth?

the one we have here in portugal is this but it comes with a dropper, dont know if it was the one you were talking about.

http://www.drugexp.com/images/medicine/Mycostatin_for_Oral_Suspension.jpg


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Yes...that's the one.Perhaps you can get a 1 cc or ml syringe. You can give her 0.1 cc [ml] two times a day.
You will need to give it to her orally. Do you know how to give oral medications?


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## Picollo30 (Oct 18, 2011)

my brother works @ a pharmacy, i'm sure he can help me out.

thanks for your help


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## Picollo30 (Oct 18, 2011)

charis just one more quick question what can happens if someone forgets to give the medication (for ex. baytril) in the morning how can someone solve this problem?

give the medication like it was starting from scratch?


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Give it as soon as you remember and wait the appropriate time for the next dose.


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

Very glad to hear your dove is on the mend. 

Did the vet say only one week of Baytril?


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## Picollo30 (Oct 18, 2011)

Hi nycpigeonlady

Yes the vet said to give her baytril for 7 days. Should be more?

She told me at day 5 of treatment i should call to tell her if medication is working or not, if not working i was to start with flagyl.

But my dove is reacting ok to baytril, she's back to her old self now, playful, cooing, the droopings are back to normal (brown stool/ white urates). So i guess it could be really a liver infection in its early stages.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I would give the Baytril for 10 days, along with Nystatin. I usually give the Nystatin a couple of days longer.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Jay3;670994[B said:


> ]I would give the Baytril for 10 days, along with Nystatin. I usually give the Nystatin a couple of days longer.[/B]


I agree with you.


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## nycpigeonlady (Jan 22, 2012)

I'd give Baytril for 10 days, too - that's why I asked if you intend to do a week only. It seems like it was something bacterial if the Baytril is working so well - all the more reason to do at least the 10 days. You don't want it coming back and becoming resistant.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

nycpigeonlady said:


> I'd give Baytril for 10 days, too - that's why I asked if you intend to do a week only. It seems like it was something bacterial if the Baytril is working so well - all the more reason to do at least the 10 days. You don't want it coming back and becoming resistant.


EXACTLY.
I knew why you asked.


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