# Website that made me apprehensive about the pigeons nesting on my terrace



## abbysian (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi: This is the website that made me apprehensive about the pigeons nesting on my terrace. After I read some of the stories on that website, I swear I started exhibiting some of the same symptoms that some of those people complained about. The itchy crawly feeling, the biting too. I don't see anything, but I do feel something. Not sure what to make of it. But, I will continue to help the little birdie who lives on my terrace. When he fledges, I will move everything off of the terrace to discourage future nesting. http://birdmites.org/mites Are there any members here who are experiencing these types of issues?


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## bigislerollers (Jan 20, 2008)

Read this post....................

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f22/levittown-woman-infested-with-bird-mites-quarantined-27659.html


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

IF the pigeons have mites they are still on the birds, that is where they want to be...after they are gone remove the nest and spray down the place. with out a host they may want to come in to humans..??...I would find a professonal to help you to check to see if you have any, then just do what they say.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

*Think About It!*



bigislerollers said:


> Read this post....................
> 
> http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f22/levittown-woman-infested-with-bird-mites-quarantined-27659.html


This is so extreme and it's this kind of news that creates hysteria and the hysteria causes innocent creatures to be persecuted. It also makes big money for pest control.


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

Charis said:


> This is so extreme and it's this kind of news that creates hysteria and the hysteria causes innocent creatures to be persecuted. It also makes big money for pest control.


EXACTLY what I was thinking. As I said, I've had pigeons for eight years and the one time they did have mites, I was in there all the time and never had one bite me, though I "*thought*" I could feel creepy crawlies. . .until I found out they don't bite people. Suddenly the creepy crawlies were gone. 

I think it's a shame that you won't be able to enjoy the pigeons anymore thanks to this extreme sort of media.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> I swear I started exhibiting some of the same symptoms that some of those people complained about. The itchy crawly feeling, the biting too. I don't see anything, but I do feel something.


So do I whenever anybody mentions mites, lice, fleas , bed bugs and specially head lice. I think it is a psychological response that humans have, the same one that makes people yawn if they see anyone yawning, or if they even think about yawning.

Pest controllers. of course, can cash in on this, and they do!

Cynthia


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## bigislerollers (Jan 20, 2008)

bigislerollers said:


> Read this post....................
> 
> http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f22/levittown-woman-infested-with-bird-mites-quarantined-27659.html


Aloha All,

Sorry, I didn't want to create a stir with my post. Just wanted Abbysian to read what *can* happen if mites get out of hand.

In fact I just had a friend who has been raising pigeons for over 40 years move over here from Montana. He built a new loft and had a few of his best birds shipped over. In all his years of raising pigeons he had never had a problem with red mites. Well, this year, his first breeding season in Hawaii, he gets infested with red mites. It was so bad that while he was cleaning out the loft and spraying everything down, he got bitten so many times that he ended up going to the doctor. 

Don't say that it can never happen, because it can. Just be careful and not *paranoid*.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

bigislerollers said:


> Aloha All,
> 
> Sorry, I didn't want to create a stir with my post. Just wanted Abbysian to read what *can* happen if mites get out of hand.
> 
> ...


Both cases are unusual and extreme.


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## Noisy_minor (Jun 20, 2008)

i know im new but from what i know about mites is they cannot live with out the host (pigeon) and they do not live on people. you can buy different mite and lice sprays from the pet shop, i dont think the wild birds would appreciate you spraying them. but after they have gone you could spray the area where they were to kill any remaining if that makes you feel better. in al honestly i think cases of infestations are very rare we have had loads of birds since i was a child and i never recall ever having problems with mites. 

cheers 
Phil


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2008)

I have about 200 birds and I have never been attacked by mites myself , I know they are out there but I use ivermec in their bath water and that helps alot .. now as for birds on a terrace maybe you could use some diatamous earth and you should be good to go , just sprinkle it around the area and it should kill off anything bug like in the area .. just my 2 cents


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## Grimaldy (Feb 25, 2007)

To bigisle roller,

So how does your friend get bitten by insects that do not infect humans? Or are there no insects in Montana that infect humans? Or does your friend know the difference? 

If you read the article that you posted, the Leavittown woman, she did not have any problems with mites until the landlord was going to throw her out for non payment of rent. Then she finds a bird nest in her bathroom vent and viola! Then she says that she wants to continue to live there, but she should be allowed to live in her apartment for free because of the bird mites that infest her and her apartment.

There is a reason mites live on birds, they are species specific. The mites that live on humans are different for the same reason. They don't go around biting anything that comes along to see how it tastes. So lets not go around talking about how bird insects can infect humans, ok?


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## abbysian (Jun 15, 2008)

LokotaLoft said:


> I have about 200 birds and I have never been attacked by mites myself , I know they are out there but I use ivermec in their bath water and that helps alot .. now as for birds on a terrace maybe you could use some diatamous earth and you should be good to go , just sprinkle it around the area and it should kill off anything bug like in the area .. just my 2 cents


Where can I find this *"diatamous earth"*? Is it safe to sprinkle around the terrace floor where the birds walk, or should I wait until the baby is able to fly off?


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## bigislerollers (Jan 20, 2008)

Aloha Abbysian,

Here is an article I found and posted before on this forum regarding Diatomaceous earth.

You should be able to find it at your local feed and or garden store. It is safe to sprinkle around the nest with the babies in it. 

"The Power of Diatomaceous Earth

By Jay Alnimer (J_Star) 2005








Diatomaceous Earth (DE) is a geological deposit made up of fossilized skeletons of siliceous marine and fresh water organisms, particularly diatoms and other algae. These skeletons are made of hydrated amorphous silica or opal. When crushed, they breakup into tiny pieces of glass so tiny that the material feels like powder. The diatom shells are covered in sharp spines that make them dangerous to exoskeleton insects, but not to animals with internal skeletons. The pines of the diatom skeletons pierce the soft waxy body tissues of the insects between their hard exoskeleton plates and it is through these numerous microscopic wounds that the insect loses bodily moisture to the point of dehydration, and then it will dry up and die. Creatures with internal skeletons such as humans, cattle, birds and pets have means of resisting such damage and are not harmed. Diatomaceous Earth works in purely physical and not chemical manner and thus has no chemical toxicity.



It is possible to mix a small amount of DE into a stored grains and beans to deter insect infestations without having to remove the dust again before consuming the grains. In several tests, DE gave better protection of grains than Malathion, particularly over the long term without exposing anyone to the danger of toxic chemicals.



To use it in food storage, you should mix thoroughly one cup of DE to every (40) forty pounds of grains such as barley, buckwheat, corn, wheat, oats, rise, and a mixture of these grains. This works out to approximately one cup of DE to every (5) five gallon bucket full of grains. You need to make certain that every kernel is coated so it is better to do the mixing in small batches where you can insure more even coating. Both the grain and the DE should be dry when doing the mixing otherwise you will get very uneven distribution. When used at proper rates, DE has been effective against ants, aphids, bollworm, caterpillar, cockroach, corn worm, earwig, house fly, fruit fly, lead perforator, leaf hopper, lygus bug, mite, weevil, red spider mites, slugs, snail, termites, Japanese beetle (grub stage) and many other insects.



There is no residual danger of contamination. In fact, DE is actually beneficial to the soil. It is loaded with trace minerals. However, there are a few precautions. DE is very dusty and can cause lung irritation if breathed heavily, so when applying it dry always wear a good dust mask or stand up wind. The second precaution is that natural DE will kill beneficial insects too, so use it sparingly to kill problem infestations of harmful insects.



There are actually two kinds of Diatomaceous Earth to be found on the market and only one of them is suitable for use as insecticide to use in stored grains. The kind that is NOT for food is the type sold by swimming pools suppliers as filtering agent. DE to be used for filtering has been subjected to a heat treatment that dramatically increases its crystalline silicate content and makes it unsuitable for storing grains. The DE that is needed for use in grain storage has not been heated and has a crystalline silica content of no more than 1 to 1.5%. It is commonly sold in hardware and garden stores of feed stores as an “organic pesticide.”



Diatomaceous Earth can be used effectively in houses to prevent the entry of certain insects such as earwigs, ants, silverfish, spiders, and cockroaches and to control these and others that are present in cupboards containing food, carpets, basements, attics, window ledges, pet areas for fleas, etc. It is important to place a small amount of the DE powder in corners, cracks, crevices, and other areas where insects might hide. 



Another use is in animals and birds for control of external parasites, mites, fleas, and flies. This is achieved by dusting the animals or birds and the litter or bedding areas, nest boxes and perches. It has also been included in the diet (two percent in the grain ration) to control certain internal parasites and this practice is aid to result in lower fly population in the resulting manure. In fact DE has been used for worming animals, controlling fly larvae in manure, as a trace mineral mixture, and insecticide, a treatment for stored grains and a soil conditioner.



In closing, whereas with a contact pesticide, the insect dies quite quickly, with DE control may take several days (6 to 72 hours to kill). The more important difference is that the effect of the protection provided by the chemical is short-lived. Whereas DE will control the pests as long as the powder remains. In this respect, De is an ideal pesticide; it is residual but nontoxic. The only health precautions that need to be taken is that if large area is being treated with a powder duster, the applicator should wear a protective mask to prevent inhalation. Diatomaceous Earth is a natural grade diatomite; however, the continual breathing of any dust should always be avoided.

Jay Alnimer "


P.S. probably my last post here after my response to Grimaldy!!!


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

My Avian vet has always said that mites and lice are host and/or species specific....so there is no way avian ones could survive on a human or a dog or cat for that matter.....so, why would they want to try ?

Regular precautions...washing up after handling....will make that "feeling" go away... 

My friend Wingy (the one who got shot)...she had one awful case of feather lice....but I was treating her for a number of other maladies that my vet and I decided to just leave the lice be as, in the scheme of things, there were other priorities.

I handled her everyday for 3 weeks until release....nary a problem.....


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## Insomniac (Aug 21, 2007)

My fantails had mites when they arrived, and probably for quite awhile before I actually blew back their feathers and saw them... they never bit me, they didn't even transfer to the other pigeons in a separate cage across the room.


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## bigislerollers (Jan 20, 2008)

To everyone who says that avian mites or mites for that matter are breed specific and do not bite humans. 

For your sake and for anyone else that you might be giving advice to, please do a search on *"RED CHICKEN MITES". *If after doing a little research you still feel the same way, so be it. I tried.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

bigislerollers said:


> To everyone who says that avian mites or mites for that matter are breed specific and do not bite humans.
> 
> For your sake and for anyone else that you might be giving advice to, please do a search on *"RED CHICKEN MITES". *If after doing a little research you still feel the same way, so be it. I tried.


Not sure what you are wanting us to know, Dexter. How about a link? I just did a quick Google on Red Chicken Mites and came away with pretty much the same ideas I already had .. they get birds but not humans. I will say that I have gotten some type of tiny creepy crawlies on me on a couple of occasions that bit the ever lovin' out of me leaving bug bites the size of mosquito bites that itched for days on end .. don't know if I got 'em from pigeons or from ducks or something else .. could have been little bitty birds like sparrows or starlings which are often just eaten up with mites when they arrive. Whatever they were, they could bite like the dickens and leave a nice itching thing to deal with but seemed to die/disappear very quickly.

Terry


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## bigislerollers (Jan 20, 2008)

Aloha Terry,

Fair enough, you did check, thats all I was asking.


Here is a link to one report. 

http://anrcatalog.ucdavis.edu/pdf/8162.pdf

Red chicken mites affect many different types of avian species including pigeons.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

bigislerollers said:


> Aloha Terry,
> 
> Fair enough, you did check, thats all I was asking.
> 
> ...


Most terrific link, Dexter! Thank you! I will be studying this one.

Terry


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Some areas have 'Chiggers' which are not associated with Birds, but are a stage of 'mite' Life-Cycle and will bite the living daylights out of you and generate horrible itching and welts...and usually people itch so badly they scratch through the welts and ake a bloody mess of themselves.


I do not know about California, but, Central Texas has 'chiggers', and anyone who walked through lawns or sat on the grass, was liable to get into some bad troubles from them...


http://mdc.mo.gov/nathis/arthopo/chiggers/


and or 


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvest_mite



I am fairly confident that as far as any Bird mites are concerned, that if a person is well 'up' on their B-Vitamin intake, and or additionally, eats raw Garlic, that the mites will stay off of them and will not bite...or, bites will be dramatically less, at worst.

Some good general info on mites - 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mites

&

http://www.ehso.com/ehshome/dustmites.php





Phil
l v


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## bigislerollers (Jan 20, 2008)

pdpbison said:


> I am fairly confident that as far as any Bird mites are concerned, that if a person is well 'up' on their B-Vitamin intake, and or additionally, eats raw Garlic, that the mites will stay off of them and will not bite...or, bites will be dramatically less, at worst.
> 
> Phil
> l v


Aloha Phil,

Never knew about the vitamin B or Garlic. Good info.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

pdpbison said:


> Some areas have 'Chiggers' which are not associated with Birds, but are a stage of 'mite' Life-Cycle and will bite the living daylights out of you and generate horrible itching and welts...and usually people itch so badly they scratch through the welts and ake a bloody mess of themselves.


I'll bet chiggers were the culprit .. hadn't thought of them. I still don't know what or where I got the little buggers, but the aftermath of being bitten sure made me miserable for a few days.

Terry


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Terry, all...



Another link - this one mentions that they attatch themselves to Poultry and Birds ( as well as to people, and other animals...)


http://ipm.ncsu.edu/AG369/notes/chiggers.html




Other links I was scanning did say chiggers are found all along the Pacific Coast and up into Alaska.



I never encountered any in the SF Bay Area or anywhere I ever hiked or spent time in the out of doors in California, but, supposedly they are there, or, here and there.


If a Bird happenned to have them, it would take a pretty serious effort with the Microscope to determine what they were, vis-a-vie casually calling them 'Bird Mites'.


And, so far, from what I gather, what tend to be called 'Bird Mites' could just as well be called 'People Mites' if on people.


For all we know, the woman in Levittown, had 'mites' and gave them to the Nesting Birds in her Attic...if in fact the Birds even had them at all, and, I recall no definitive mention in that regard, and no effort to determine it.


All tolled, this whole 'mite' issue is pretty interesting..


One article said 'Mites' have been around for at least 400,000,000 years.


Well, lets hope we can all avoid them...! 'We' meaning all of us, people, Birds, and everyone!

Or, ideally, if all the various 'mites' could organize themselves, and only infest politicians and crooked corporation types, and a few others ( well, a long list of others, ) that would be truely excellent.



Phil
l v


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Just thought I would add "No See 'Em" bugs to the list that bite humans!

Never heard of them until I went to T'ai Chi camps in WI and CA!!

HAD heard of Chiggers, tho! 

Shi

(must be up on my B and garlic...not even starting to "itch" with all this bug mention!)


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