# Free Flying Pigeons?



## raynjudy (Aug 22, 2000)

Hi all!

I've had to ask myself how I would handle a situation like this because I haven't had to. I have released animals back into the wild on several occasions because they were mature when rescued, and that is where they belonged. They had not bonded with me, and were capable of dealing with natural adversities out of doors. Those birds that I took in as babies, I have kept inside the home. 

Allowing a tame pigeon to fly for a designated time, such as loft owners do is fine. The birds get adequate excercise as a group, and are rewarded with food upon return; and they don't have access to all the hazards that are "out there". 

So many municipalities now have regular extermination programs for pigeons. Poison is put out where pigeons gather. They are poisoned as a group. A pet pigeon will consume the poison and fly home to endure a terrible death, much to the agony of those who love it.

Parasites, both external and internal are out there just waiting for a new host. Of course, mingling with wild pigeons opens wide the door for many diseases. In many cases one treatment will not insure against reinfection. 

I also need to stress the painful and shameful fact that there are hateful and perverse human beings that will indeed catch a tame pigeon and torture it. Birds have been found with cigarette burns, wings & feet cut off, etc. (just for "fun"). It happens. Need I say more? A trusting and friendly pigeon could come to a terrible end.









Our flighted pigeon is perfectly happy to fly from one level of our house to another...landing on top of doors and to her greatest delight, on top of our heads. She is perfectly happy here, and doesn't run the risks I've mentioned. But she was a baby when rescued and knows nothing else.

Hypothetical question: Would any of us allow a pet dog loose all day long to roam where it pleases, while we are at work? Would we release a pet bunny in a wild meadow for an afternoon? At least the dog is not a prey animal.

I certainly would never put my Amazon parrot outside for unlimited flight, where she could join in with wild birds at a feeder, exposing her to infectious material from both mammals and birds. With her size, not much would threaten her; but diseases don't make those distinctions. 

It is a tough question, to release or not? I guess I would "adopt" everything if I could. 

Judy

[This message has been edited by raynjudy (edited September 09, 2002).]


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## turkey (May 19, 2002)

Thank you Judy! 

I go back and forth about this topic. I do hope to have a big outdoor aviary for my pigeons some day. I want them to experience fresh air and sunlight. 

I actually do like to take my dog out without a leash. Of course only when it is safe to do that. I just don't like confinement of any type. 

What you are saying makes sense. I can't really guarantee the safety of my birds. 

Like I said, back and forth. 

Julie


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## hilary (Jun 20, 2002)

I have the same dilemna with Hercs. I think everybody here knows how much I love this pigeon. He loves to fly around outside and more often than not, I'm outside with him.

It's a constant worry however, when I'm at work or down in the diningroom (which are about 200 metres from my house). If I'm not in the house, Hercs is just waiting for the opportunity to get out and find me. Sometimes, by accident, the kids let him out, or my dog opens the door, and Hercs comes looking for me. He has amazingly found me, once at work and two or three times he has flown into the diningroom when I was eating. I nearly died when I saw him come to me at work and the diningroom, because there are many, many feral cats on the kibbutz, as well as dogs, and Hercules has no fear of cats or dogs as at home, he bosses my dogs around. Now, when I'm not home, I leave him in my bedroom, where he is quite happy because he's sitting on his nest. However, I do have him outside every day, because I spend a lot of time outside and even though he stays close to me most of the time, I still worry myself sick about raptors and cats. I don't know what I would do if anything ever happened to my beloved Hercules.

Hilary


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## bigbird (Aug 19, 2000)

Pet birds will not survive outside, without being trained to be street smart, which is a risky effort at best. Wild feral pigeons are street smart, but they still have a very high mortality rate. The fact is that pigeons in the wild have short life spans for a wide variety of reasons.
A domesticated pigeon will be safer if kept and cared for. My pet pigeon (Lucky) flies outside with me, but hawks are ever-present, and I worry every second about her. I can only relax when she is inside, with me.
So I have come to the conclusion that domesticated pigeons should not be set free. The tradeoff, freedom in place of captivity is not worth it if they only live a few days or weeks in the wild.
Just an opinion.
Regards,
Carl


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Whitefeather was feral, I helped her out of a bad situation. She decided to fly with her own but came back for meals and visits. Guess she wanted what we both thought at the time, was the best of two worlds. My mistake? We became attached. I still anguish over what happened. Whitefeather's pal, Cindy


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Ray,
You are absolutely right. 
Cindy

Brian,
I am not here to argue, however, given the right place I could literally have you going in circles. 
I do have a comment re: two of your issues. 
1st- You appear to be quite callous towards your birds (your comment re: the hawks) 
2nd- You seem to enjoy a good debate, there are several sites that are looking for new blood. Cindy


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Just a little note: I am truly glad I am not one of Brian's birds. 
To be so angry. Quite sad. Cindy

[This message has been edited by Whitefeather (edited September 10, 2002).]


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## Poulette (Feb 5, 2002)

This is september 10... peace and dove 
peace and love...









Suz.


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## raynjudy (Aug 22, 2000)

Hi all!

When I started this I had no idea...

This is the end of a very long day for me.

I agree with Suz. 

We have members that were very close to Ground Zero...

Judy


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Everyone,

Wow! What a flurry of harsh words here on a topic that I don't think warranted them.

It seems to me that the question raised was whether to allow a pet pigeon or domesticated bird (presumably tame) to fly free. I must side with those who voted no on the free flying. The safety and health of the bird should be of paramount importance, and as noted in several posts there are many dangers out there ranging from predators to disease.

Having raised and rehabbed many, many pigeons at this point, I can honestly say that very few of them want to be free and on their own even if they were feral adults when I got them. Most of these birds when set free do nothing more than circle my backyard a couple of times and just come back to hang out in/on the yard, patio cover, roof of the house, or on the cages of the other birds. We have a hawk who visits the backyard every 7-10 days, and I would fear for any bird not protected from this mighty hunter (except the Mockingbirds and Crows who fearlessly sound the alarm and try to drive the hawk away .. have never seen the hawk try for either of these types of birds). Thus, the ones who insist on hanging out in the backyard have all been recaptured and no longer are free flying birds. There have been several pigeons .. perhaps four or five .. who when set free, quickly took flight back to points unknown never to be seen again. Obviously these feral birds wanted and deserved their freedom as precarious as it might be for them. The others .. well, I think they knew a good thing when they saw it and figured why go and risk death, starvation, disease, and such when you can just stay here and have it made.

At some point, I would love to have a huge aviary with flight pens for my guys. For now, they must make do with what is available. Someday, though, there will be a pigeon "palace" for my birds.

Terry Whatley


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Well....................
I don't really understand what the fight was all about!
Reading between the lines I'd say Brian seems to have a lot of anger bottled up in him..............but I cannot setermine the reason why.
He seems the type to be right at home on the Utility Pigeons list - Eh Brad?


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Terry,
If I happen to come back as a pigeon, sure hope I find my way to your pigeon "Palace".
By the way, Nancy reports the little guy I took over to her is doing good. Head more straightened and eating well with two other pigeons. I am so happy!!!
Again not realizing the different type of pigeons, this one had a 'tuf' on its head. Nancy pointed out that is was a crested pigeon. She didn't seem to think very many of them are feral. Any comments? 
I seem to be learning something new everyday.
Quite an exciting experience. My son jokes with me and says, "Mom, one of these days I am going to come home and find you sitting on the roof" Never know. Up close & personal can be a good thing. Good night! Cindy


[This message has been edited by Whitefeather (edited September 10, 2002).]


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## turkey (May 19, 2002)

Hi guys,

I skipped over the crap. 

When people post that garbage I won't read it anymore. I'll just leave it up to the moderators to take care of. I'm VERY thankful for our moderators. 

By the way, I REALLY like the new discussion list set up. 

Julie


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## raynjudy (Aug 22, 2000)

"Crap" deleted. Substance retained.









Happily, the forums will continue sans Brian.

--Ray


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## Wild Dove (Apr 9, 2002)

Thanks Ray! Things were getting a little narley there!
On the subject...I think Terry's recent post, "Sad End to a Young Free Flyer", really hit the subject home for me. I have no problems with releasing youngsters that have spent the majority of their time in a "flock", (albeit a human imposed group), of mixed adults and juveniles that have spent weeks together with little human interference...even hand-fed babies wild up pretty quickly in that kind of situation, (although there is the odd exception). Also, loft birds that are trained as a flying flock most likely have that group instinct.
But after watching Noodle grow from a mere babe to a spunky, curious teenager, (and I mean curious with a big "C"), I just wouldn't take the chance. She has a safe, protected, and indulged environment that just doesn't exist out in the "big world", and she hasn't known anything different.
After reading Terry's story, I have stopped wondering if I am doing right by Noodle. I have stopped feeling guilty. People have always asked me as a single child, "Don't you miss having brothers and sisters though?"
My reply is always this, "How can I miss something that has never existed?" Hopefully, for Noodle, it is the same.
Wild Dove


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## raynjudy (Aug 22, 2000)

Bumping Up...

--Ray


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