# Pigeons molting ?



## Frank2620 (Feb 7, 2017)

Pigeons molting ?

I've heard when pigeons are molting you should lock them down . 

I've heard others say they still train molting pigeons up to 30 miles . 

I also heard about people cutting the flights .Then pulling the flights a week or two after . To be sure they won't be molting during the races . I'm not about to do that .

Many of my pigeons are molting at this time . We start racing in the first week of October . I only tossed my pigeons up to 20 miles so far . Should I just train the pigeons that are not molting and lock the rest down ? 
Or only loft fly the molting pigeons ? 

Any thoughts on training pigeons while molting ?

Thank you ,

Frank


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## beachwood45789 (Jul 15, 2014)

Hi, what you should have done when you put your young ones in there loft is cut the last 2 feathers on each wing then pull them out in 2 weeks and then put them on the lighting system giving them light for 16 hours a day the lighting system speeds up the moult and your birds would have been fully moulted be for race time, i would not train or race birds that are not fully molted it will only hurt them make sure even the ones that you think are fully molted have there last 2 feathers in already not half tips you can train and race these birds


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## Frank2620 (Feb 7, 2017)

Thanks for the response Beachwood ,

I've been searching the internet about training molting pigeons . Some people said , if they loft fly train them . Other people have written it hurts them . Others said , it didn't matter under 30 miles . So today I only tossed the ones that had very little or no molt showing .I single tossed at first . But they just went to the roof and waited for me to release another pigeon . So I started releasing two at a time every 10 minutes . The heavy molted ones I just left loft fly today .

I'll single toss and then drive for 5 minutes , then toss another one next time . I don't think I'll pull any feathers . But I may try putting them on the lighting system for 16 hours a day next year . 

Thanks ,
Frank


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## beachwood45789 (Jul 15, 2014)

Hi, you should not single toss them you want them to come home together as a team you will lose birds single tossing them, after you get them out to 15 or 20 miles at least 3 or 4 times then you can let them out 5 or 6 together let them leave the area and let out 5 or 6 more never put the carrier on the ground when realesing them put it on the trunk or the back of a truck some birds will hit the ground a can get hurt and always train in the line of flight to your loft dont go in different driections if you can try and find a landmark about 25 to 30 miles from your loft it could be a bridge or big building or a highway intersection any thing they can see easily from the air this will be your breaking point take them to the spot you chose 10 to 15 times let them get to know it real good if you have any more questions just post it im here to help new guys learn how to win races


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## Frank2620 (Feb 7, 2017)

Hi Beachwood , 

I had all my young birds out to 20 miles once , then dropped back to about 10 miles and released in two groups of 13 because of the molting . Then today I tossed 2 at a time from the southeast . We will be racing from the North . I wanted my birds to find their own way home and not just follow the others . I have about a 40 mile over fly . I thought I would have a better chance if my birds broke from the start . It would be nice to win , but I'm just happy to be flying my birds .

For now on I'll train from the north only . 

Thank you ,

Frank


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## beachwood45789 (Jul 15, 2014)

Hi Frank, here are some more tips for young bird racing i posted last year in the search box on top of the page type in tips for young bird racing you can speed up your pigeons moulting by giving them flax seed oil or wheat germ oil with brewers yeast sprinkled on there feed 2x a week you can buy small bottles of these oils at www.oilscenter.com for about 5$ and the shipping is free type the names of the oils you want in the search box and also give them a bath at least once a week


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## wildcat hunter (Jan 17, 2014)

I would think you Should put the crates on the ground when releasing the birds. Coming from a truck bed the birds might get "pushed " to the ground whereas on the ground they just run out and up into the sky. I train around the clock Because I am 25 miles from the closest flyer and way offline. If my birds are pulled offline I want them to use their brains and reorient and head for home. I only single toss 1 time - their 1st toss, after that I think they know enough that they might have to rely on themselves at times. I believe the birds recognize their loft mates and stick together if possible and group tossing will reinforce the bonding "but- if your birds stick together they may "slow down" to accommodate the slower birds ? Just my thoughts, maybe small groups tossed together could overcome this. Not all pigeons have the same build and cannot fly the same speed.


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## beachwood45789 (Jul 15, 2014)

Hi Wildcat, when your birds just run out of the carrier and take off what happens when they are released with with thousands of birds in the combine you want your birds blasting out of the carrier and if they happen to be in the bottom crates they will be forced to the ground and possibly get injured i never raced where lofts were very far apart in NY the lofts are just 2 to 3 miles apart so maybe single tossing might help your birds becuase your birds are flying in to a large front, and i dont think birds that are leading the pack slow down to let the others catch up to them and the ones that cant keep up with them are the ones that will always be late in a race those are the ones you dont need anyway that is just my opinion, good luck in your young bird races Wildcat, the birds that i sent out this year to the Long Island Combine have there 1st race this Sunday i only sent 10 to the l.i.c race and 5 to the l.b.r.a. race and 2 to the unit-10 challenge race i would have sent more but a lot of the auction races were cancelled this year


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## wildcat hunter (Jan 17, 2014)

Whats the saying, "many roads to Rome", giving my opinion and my methods.
Nobody has to do what I do, I try to set the individual birds up for their races. Some of my birds are bred from OLR stock and some from long distance stock.
A bird flying 500 - 600 miles does not "speed" home, they would soon be worn down. I do not know if a bird will slow down for a buddy, I guess we are all guessing about certain things. I have driven the trailer and have seen the birds 
beat down on the release. It happens, I like to spare my birds extra trama. 
Again all birds are not the same, muscle, bone structure, wing structure all vary and we can only take our best shot at training them. I even feed my birds "on the ground" and bathe them on the ground. I know others think I am way off base with that - they have already stated it on this website. Thats Ok, we are all different and do different things, some help, some hinder our birds. 
This year I'm trying something different; I bought a jar of Magnetite, fed it to some YB's and not to others ( I have 3 seperate lofts ). Might be interesting to add up the losses from each group.


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## Frank2620 (Feb 7, 2017)

Hi Wildcat hurter ,

Thanks for the response . I've read so many "different" ways of training molting birds , or not training the molting birds on the internet . I didn't know what to do . Then I read it hurts them when forced to fly while molting . So I thought I would ask for advice here . 

I've also read about single tossing and /or tossing 3 at a time to make more of your pigeons leaders instead of followers . By making them think on their own . That made sense to me . Yesterday , I tossed 2 at a time and had 3 stay out overnight . I think I'll still single toss every now and then . But for now, I'll start releasing small groups from the north , the direction we'll be racing from . Our club is in Jacksonville Fl . and I,m in St Augustine . Thats about a 40 miles over fly . All the other club members are from Jacksonville .

There are so many different ways of doing things . I guess I'll just read what people have to say . Then maybe I'll pick up something I like from each response . Then put the things together that I think are right . 

I also give my birds bathwater out on the lawn . When they're done I pour the bath water out . Then I watch for hawks while waiting for them to dry off in the sun . 

Well thanks again ,
Frank


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## wildcat hunter (Jan 17, 2014)

I.ve read that when the birds molt the 5th flight some losses happen, the 5th flight is where the joint in the wing is. True or not I don't know but I will not send them to a race when that flight is out. One other that I follow is when the "ears" are bare I don't send on a race. But I still train them 15 to 25 miles. 
You can't cover every situation that might happen on a race, we do our best and pray the birds come home. I had a pigeon home with both legs broken, must have hit a wire ? Its a cock and he cannot do the job on a hen but he has a home here, the bird has guts. I got 2 back this year weeks late from the same race. They get another chance next year. I wonder what happened on that race or with that crate to cause this. The 2 birds were able to sustain themselves until they could get home. 
Take care of the birds and treat them as intelligent living, breathing, loving things - not machines. I get as much enjoyment watching and playing with the birds as I do racing them.


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## Frank2620 (Feb 7, 2017)

Hi Wildcat hurter ,

I don't send pigeons with flights missing to a race , unless the new flight is in over half way . Thats what I was told to do anyway .

I also read when the "ears" are bare it hurts them to fly . Some say as you do , to train them to about 20 miles . That was one of the reasons for the question about training molting pigeons .But the racing will start in the first week of October . So I guess I'll train the molting birds out to about 20 miles . I may hold back the ones with molted bare ears . As I don't know if it hurts them or not . 

I also had a pigeon come home with a broken leg . I put a split on it for 10 days using self adhesive bandage wrap . Then it limped around for another 10 days . But it's fine now . I also had one walk up to my loft with a broken wing . I used self adhesive bandage wrap to hold it's wing up for 10 days . I first wrapped the wing to the body . But it keep coming lose , so I wrapped to it's other wing like it was in handcuffs . That bird is flying well now . But I'm afraid to race it . 

Well thanks again ,
Frank


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## beachwood45789 (Jul 15, 2014)

Hi Frank, if you continue to single toss your birds you may not have any to put in the races you are already ruining you birds those 3 that stayed out all night probably flew for hours and hours looking for the loft, birds flying alone are easy prey for hawks and they missed being feed and watered, you say you want your birds to be leaders the leaders in any pigeon race are the birds that are super healthy and in the best condition that has been proven over and over again healthy birds win races those 3 birds that did not come home should be rested leave them home today, did they lose any weight do they look run down?? i also had a young bird who broke both her legs in a training toss i put splints on her legs pigeon supply stores sell plastic splints that snap together when the legs healed i put her in 2 races then 2 weeks later she came in 1st place in the biggest money race in N.Y. the frank viola band race winning 50,000$ i also came in 5th place winning 13,000 more


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## wildcat hunter (Jan 17, 2014)

Quote; 
I also had a pigeon come home with a broken leg . I put a split on it for 10 days using self adhesive bandage wrap . Then it limped around for another 10 days . But it's fine now . I also had one walk up to my loft with a broken wing . I used self adhesive bandage wrap to hold it's wing up for 10 days . I first wrapped the wing to the body . But it keep coming lose , so I wrapped to it's other wing like it was in handcuffs . That bird is flying well now . But I'm afraid to race it .
Funny you should mention that, A while back my neighbor called me and said a pigeon with a band on its leg was walking on the blacktop road. I went down and tried to catch it but it could fly a little bit so I just watched it. This was about 300 yards from my loft. The bird walked to the loft and kept jumping and flapping until he got on the landing board. It was mine. He healed up but I never shipped him anymore.


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## Frank2620 (Feb 7, 2017)

Hi Beachwood ,

The three that stay out overnight look fine . But it was only about a 15 mile
toss and the first time they had water to cross over .I think they may have 
been looking for a bridge to go over , or a shorter distance to cross over .
I was trying to single toss , but ended up tossing 2 at a time . Today was
the last day we're not expecting rain , until Tuesday anyway . It was hot 
today and I didn't take them anywhere . They just flew around the loft . For
the most part I'll be training them to the North , the direction we will be 
racing from . I'll probably be tossing three to seven at a time . If I toss 3 at
time , at leased a 1/3 of my birds will be leaders . But yes , I'm still thinking 
of single tossing them once in awhile to keep them sharp . To think on their 
own .My thoughts are if they home in from the release point on their own , 
instead of following the pack . Well , I should have a better chance . 

I've read single tossing makes them think on their own .

Tossing three at a time , at lease one has to be a leader . 

Also , tossing 3 to 7 makes them race home and compete with each other .

I don't know if any of the above is true , but it made sense to me . If I single 
toss it won't be often and it will be shorter tosses than I had planed . I'm still 
looking for input to see what makes sense to me . Most of what I've read , 
people don't agree on this subject . 

I'll have to get some of those plastic splints to keep on hand .

Thanks,
Frank


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## Frank2620 (Feb 7, 2017)

Hi Wildcat hurter ,

I had a young bird brake a wing last year . I didn't think it was broken but it was . She will never fly again , but she has a home . She also came walking home . Funny how they even find their way home on the ground . 

I also had pigeons that have never been out of the coop . Gave them away and some made it back to my loft .

Thanks ,
Frank


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## beachwood45789 (Jul 15, 2014)

Hi Frank, when training your birds over water you should toss them about 4 or 5 times on your side of the water not single tosses all of them at once you should train all your birds together after they are coming home real good about 30 miles from your loft after that you can try single tosses but only after they know the right way home


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## Frank2620 (Feb 7, 2017)

Hi Beachwood ,

I'll be training from the North on I95 now . No water to cross over that way until Jacksonville , about 35 miles from my loft . My loft is at SR16 and I95 . When I get to the water I'll release 4 or 5 times on my side as you suggest . I have about 40 young birds . Do you think I should release them in smaller groups ?

I went to Tractor Supply to get the Flaxseed oil . They didn't have it . i'll try the feed store Monday , if they don't have it I'll order it online . How much oil to how much feed ? 

Thanks,
Frank


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## beachwood45789 (Jul 15, 2014)

Hi Frank, you can realse about 10 at a time waite for them to get away and realse 10 more the best place to get the flax seed oil is at www.oilscenter.com they sell small bottles about 8oz cost about 5$ when mixing it with the feed try 1 teaspoon of oil if the feed if it sticks to the feed in clumps you have used to much oil just add a little more feed if you have brewers yeast add about 3 teaspoons of it is is very good for the birds what kind of supplemts are you giving your birds do you use apple cider vinegar buy braggs brand it is sold at walmart 2 tabelspons to a gallon of water do you use red cell it is a horse vitiaim 2 tablespons to a gallon of water it is sold at tractor supply do you give them garlic the best you can get is ropa brand you can put in in the water or mix it in the feed when feeding your birds do not over feed them when you see most of them going for the water waite a few minutes then take the feed you want lean mean flyinig machines fat birds dont win races there is a product vita pro combo sold at www.vitakingproducts.com it is the best thing to give you birds. i know it is a lot of suplemts but it will keep your birds in super health with out useing antibiotics excuase my spelling let me know if you got my message


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## Frank2620 (Feb 7, 2017)

Hi Beachwood , 

I have used ACV and I still have it in my loft . I started using bleach in their drinking water instead . After I've seen it in the pigeon digest , I looked it up online . Some people like it and others say you're killing your birds . Other people say it is the same thing as our water plants treating our home water . I use a 1/2 teaspoon per gal . This is another thing I find people can't agree on . Some people say 3 or 4 drops per gal , others 2 teaspoons per gal .
Most sickness is spread through the drinking water . 

I try not to medicate them unless they get sick . I do give them 4 in 1 a few times a year . I plan on giving them 4 in 1 about 2 weeks before the racing starts . They'll be off of it about a week before the first race . I used to put garlic in their drinking water too , but I haven't gave it to them for awhile now . When I medicate or add anything else to their water , I stop the bleach . I may change them to ACV two times a week . Just to see if there will be any change .I haven't used the red cell vitamins , but another guy also told me to try it . I guess I'll get some of that too .

I'll go put a movie on now and after that I have to order some things online .

Thanks ,
Frank


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## beachwood45789 (Jul 15, 2014)

Hi Frank, stop using the bleach acv is what you need for your birds, what i do i have a plastic bin i have 4 waters i change the water twice a day, in the plastic bin i put the waters that i used in the the morning in the bin and use the waters that i used the night be for, in the bin i put enough water in the bin to just cover the top of the waters and i add 1/4 gallon of bleach to the water and some dish cleaner the cheap one you can buy at the dollar store this way you know they are dissinfected change the water every 3 days if you buy the red cell by a gallon it is about 20$ you can buy it in tractor supply, do you use probiotics and electrolytes you really need to use them you can buy electrolytes in tractor supply the one i use is for horses it comes in a blue bag cost about 4$ use 1/2 teaspoon to a gallon of water or you can also buy a bag of vitiamins with electrolytes at tractor supply cost about 5$ 1 teaspoon to a gallon of water it is also used for horses if you buy these products at a pigeon supply store it will cost you over 30$ you also can by these products at rural king


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## Frank2620 (Feb 7, 2017)

Hi Beachwood ,

I was using ACV and garlic in my water before I read about the bleach . I tried the bleach and the birds haven't been sick , and seem fine . Even when I gave the pigeons wormer there were no worms to be seen or found . I also had to clean out my plastic waterers , as they seem to get a slime on the inside . With the bleach there is no slime and the bleach kills any germs that used to get spread by way of the waterers . Now I don't medicate unless they get sick , and they haven't been , or shortly before the racing starts I'll give them 4 in 1 .Just to be sure they're in good health . Or if they pick up something during shipping I'll give them 4 in 1 . But other than that I don't really like to medicate them . The vitamins and flaxseed oil for their molt sounds like good advice . Also , the garlic and ACV sounds like good advice too . I will use the things you suggested a few times a week . But I think I'll keep using the bleach on the other days , as I only had good results since I started the bleach . The probiotics and electrolytes I may get and use during the races . I'm not sure , but I think I use to get electrolytes in with vitamins from the feed store . 

I take about a 30 mile round trip to feed and water my birds everyday . I live in a condo and can't have pigeons here . So I keep them on another property I have . I feed and water once a day , unless I take them down the road . On days I train , I'll return to the loft and wait on them to return . After they trap and eat I let them back out . Then sometimes I'll put their bath water out with 20 mule team borax in it . 

Well I'll go check out a movie now . Have a good night ,
Frank


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## beachwood45789 (Jul 15, 2014)

Hi Frank, bleach is a dissinfecent acv is complety different it is for the flora in the birds gut acv helps to stablise the ph of the birds intestine and maintain a healthy appetite also helps with the stress caused by hot weather and it kills harmful bacteria acv is a must use for racing pigeons and electrolytes is a must use for racing pigeons, and the birds should be there be for you get there, you have to train in the early morning will it is a little cooler training in the heat in florida is not to good for your birds i use to be at my loft at 5 30 am packing my birds up for training and you should not let your birds out after they come home from training do you have a training cage on the board of your loft?? thats where you give them there baths you want them to fly home and get in the loft thats what you want them to do that is why you should train the birds together, and get rid of the borax buy some pigeon bath salts i use ideal bathsalt from versele-laga 10$ for 2 lbs i will send pics of my training cage, i tell you these things so you can win some races if you want to win it takes a lot of work is it not easy www.pipa.be/en/articles/wonders-apple-cider-vinegar-23163


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## Frank2620 (Feb 7, 2017)

Hi Beachwood ,

I wish my birds were back before me during their training tosses . As their loft is just off of I 95 . When I release them just off I 95 , to the north of me . I get back on 95 heading south at 80 mile an hour . 

I know I should really train in the mornings more . I used to when I lived on the same property with my pigeons . Also , I was working so I would take them to work with me . But I never worked to far from home anyway . Now I take care of my mother , she is 88 years old and legally blind . She also has parkinson's and has seizures . She burnt her hand during one of her seizures on the stove . She cooked her hand . I had to take her to Shands Hospital in Gainesville . She stayed there for about a month . Then to rehab in Gainesville for about another month . She still goes to Shands Hospital in Gainesville as an outpatient . We just got back from there at 7PM tonight . By the time I get done around here in the morning it's noon . 

I never used bath salts , but the borax kills feather lice . I think I was told that when I was a kid in Philadelphia . I also read about other people using borax . I guess the bath salts do the same thing , but I never try it yet .

My landing board is about 7 foot off the ground . I have kind of a training cage , I screw it over my landing board when I put the young birds . Just to train them to trap . I don't have away to post a picture . 

Google , 3101 tindall Farms rd, St Augustine ,Fl .You can see my loft there . Click on the picture , not the map . Drive down the street to the right just pass the tree . Then look on the front lawn .

Well time for a movie . 

Thanks again ,

Frank


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## wildcat hunter (Jan 17, 2014)

Frank, check this website out, lots of hints.
https://www.mclaughlinlofts.com/secrets-.html


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## Frank2620 (Feb 7, 2017)

Hi Wildcat hurter ,

Thanks I'll check it out . 

Frank


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## beachwood45789 (Jul 15, 2014)

Hi Frank, i know what you are going thru i took care of my mother the last 3 years of her life i even moved her into an appartment next door to were i lived she made me promise not to put her in a nursing home or a hospice she wanted to die in her own house i kept that promise she passed away peacefully at 87 i was in tractor supply today i got a bottle of a-lyte solution it has vitamins amino acids and electrolytes cost 5$ for 16oz use 2 teaspoons to gallon of water


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## Frank2620 (Feb 7, 2017)

Hi Beachwood ,

Today I measured from my landing board to the ground and it's 7'10" . For one thing it on a trailer . Did you see it on google ? I built it that high because when I'm inside , it's right for me . Also , a cat or **** would have a problem getting on my landing board . 

My calendar week is getting full , LOL . Red cell ,ACV, Flaxseed oil . I just got a box in the mail today too . How often do you use the a-lyte solution ? Once a week or what ? I'll get some tomorrow or maybe tuesday . I may redo my calendar and use everything once a week . 

If I remember right , you haven't been down in Florida to long have you ? Did you get in a club down here yet ? 

Well time for a movie . Half the time I end up checking my eyelids for cracks . 

Thanks ,

Frank


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## beachwood45789 (Jul 15, 2014)

Hi Frank, yes i did see the loft it is high i think i saw a chicken to do you have enough ventilation in the loft does it get hot inside? you should have an opening on the front bottom of the loft so air can come thru and an opening on the top rear of your loft air comes thru through the bottom and goes out of the top i will send you some pics of my loft to you in an e-mail so you can get an idear 0f what you need you can use the a-lyte once a week but you can mix it with other stuff let me know what supplemts you have on hand i have been in fl for 10 years now the only club near me is about 25 miles away and it is a small club with only about 8 flyers and i dont drive anymore so i would have to ask someone to drive my brother is not interested in pigeons so what i do is send birds to auction races in long island and n.j. and a flyer there buys my birds and trains them and races them and when the auction race comes up if my bird wins any money we split 50/50


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## Frank2620 (Feb 7, 2017)

Hi Beachwood ,

Yes , I have screen vents in the overhang of the roof . I also have an open floor . I bought a 12' by 24' shed I'm turning into a pigeon loft . It's right behind the loft on google . But the picture on google is old and doesn't show the new shed . I have to put vents in the floor and vents at the top peaks of the roof . It needs about 5 more windows . Then the inside all has to be done . I will also have it insulated inside with spray foam before I start the inside walls .

My small loft needs work to now . But I want to get a new loft built before I do any work on my old one . 

I didn't think you were down here that long . I remember reading some of your post awhile back that made me think you just moved down here . I guess it was because you were talking about NY . Then about you moved to Florida . None of the 8 flyers live near you ? I couldn't make it without a car . Hell , I would call the club and ask how much someone would want to pick me up on shipping nights . 25 miles isn't that far . I drive 30 miles round trip just to feed and water my pigeons every day . Plus , it would cut down on their shipping cost with another member . 

I let you know what all I'm giving the pigeons in an email tomorrow . I'm going to sleep now .

Thanks,
Frank


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## Frank2620 (Feb 7, 2017)

Hi Wildcat hunter , 

A lot of good information on that website you gave me .

Thank you, 

Frank


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## beachwood45789 (Jul 15, 2014)

Hi Frank, go to www.raymondjulien-domainedumeleze.yolasite.com a lot of good stuff read go to the letter G and read about garlic


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## Frank2620 (Feb 7, 2017)

Hi Beachwood , 

Looks like one garlic clove per gallon of water about 2 times a week . Looks like I'll redo my calendar soon . I didn't make it to tractor supply today .

Time for a movie ,

Thanks again ,

Frank


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## beachwood45789 (Jul 15, 2014)

Hi Frank, i told you to look in g for garlic i should have been garlic for our pigeons and putting a clove of garlic in the water will do nothing for your birds you would have to boil several big garlic cloves i dont know for how long but it makes a mess and will stink up your house i have done it be for i wont do it again you have to buy liquid garlic and the best one you can buy is sold at www.foyspetsupplies.com buy the ropa brand it is 500ml you can put in in the water or on the feed all the other brands are not as thick as the ropa brand dont use garlic powder it is no good


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## Frank2620 (Feb 7, 2017)

Hi Beachwood ,

I ordered it , it should be here in a few days .

Thanks ,
Frank


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