# Should I destroy the eggs?



## SerendipityCA

OK, things have come to a head in my building. There are two lightwells, mine and another one. They put netting over the top of the lightwells but the netting on my side got ripped. So the pigeons are continuing to nest on my fire escape. I'm on the first floor (of three) and there's a nice ledge underneath my fire escape that is perfect for nesting.

The two lightwells are connected by a ground-level passageway, and a pigeon apparently went through that and got trapped up on the third floor of the other lightwell, and panicked. One of my neighbors/friends on that side got him out somehow. There's a small tear in their net, he either got through that or came back through the passageway and got out through my lightwell.

However, this got the neighbor, who hates pigeons, to call the landlord about repairing the net.

The problem is, the landlord is sending this HORRIBLE man over to fix the net. This man has a truck so filthy, it's absolutely disgusting, and he has a really creepy nasty personality.

I just went out onto my fire escape and there are two nests out there, with two eggs each in them.

I know they are not going to care that they might trap pigeons in there, but if they let me know when they are coming I can maybe scare them up and out (they did exactly that and flew up through the net when I went out just now).

However, once they do that they won't be able to get back in.

So I have two choices:

rip the net again so they can raise their babies - if I'm home when they repair the net I could do it pretty soon and the eggs wouldn't get cold.

destroy the eggs

or I guess I could let the eggs get cold and they would die that way.

I do not know how viable they are.

What should I do?

If I let them come back in, they will continue to poop all over the fire escape, and there's a new tenant next door, they cleaned the poop off before they rented to him but it's disgusting out there, and he would hear the babies and might complain or hurt them.

I think it might be best if I went out and destroyed the eggs, but I hate the thought of doing that.

Advice?


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## Charis

You don't need to destroy the eggs, just remove them, bring them inside and let them die on their own.


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## sky tx

Charis--post the Source of your info.
Some members of this site do not like Trueful - Correct-Comon sence answers


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## Jay3

Sky tx.....................behave. LOL.
Don't see what the problem is, actually. As long as they don't have babies there to let die. Letting the birds back in after they fix the net is certainly not a good idea. Let them nest somewhere else. It isn't a safe place for them to be, and things will only go badly for them there. If there were babies, then it would be different. They will start another nest somewhere else.


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## spirit wings

SerendipityCA said:


> OK, things have come to a head in my building. There are two lightwells, mine and another one. They put netting over the top of the lightwells but the netting on my side got ripped. So the pigeons are continuing to nest on my fire escape. I'm on the first floor (of three) and there's a nice ledge underneath my fire escape that is perfect for nesting.
> 
> The two lightwells are connected by a ground-level passageway, and a pigeon apparently went through that and got trapped up on the third floor of the other lightwell, and panicked. One of my neighbors/friends on that side got him out somehow. There's a small tear in their net, he either got through that or came back through the passageway and got out through my lightwell.
> 
> However, this got the neighbor, who hates pigeons, to call the landlord about repairing the net.
> 
> The problem is, the landlord is sending this HORRIBLE man over to fix the net. This man has a truck so filthy, it's absolutely disgusting, and he has a really creepy nasty personality.
> 
> I just went out onto my fire escape and there are two nests out there, with two eggs each in them.
> 
> I know they are not going to care that they might trap pigeons in there, but if they let me know when they are coming I can maybe scare them up and out (they did exactly that and flew up through the net when I went out just now).
> 
> However, once they do that they won't be able to get back in.
> 
> So I have two choices:
> 
> rip the net again so they can raise their babies - if I'm home when they repair the net I could do it pretty soon and the eggs wouldn't get cold.
> 
> destroy the eggs
> 
> or I guess I could let the eggs get cold and they would die that way.
> 
> I do not know how viable they are.
> 
> What should I do?
> 
> If I let them come back in, they will continue to poop all over the fire escape, and there's a new tenant next door, they cleaned the poop off before they rented to him but it's disgusting out there, and he would hear the babies and might complain or hurt them.
> 
> I think it might be best if I went out and destroyed the eggs, but I hate the thought of doing that.
> 
> Advice?


you have put allot of thought into these eggs, Everyone has their own moral value on these things, right to choose is one of them for humans.. I would not sweat it for two pigeon's eggs. If you eat chickens eggs for breakfast really they are no more than that if these eggs are early...If they are older, then comes the issue of killing embryos.. guess it is pro choice and only yours.


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## SerendipityCA

It will be difficult to remove the eggs, they are way under the fire escape and the slats are too narrow to pull them up. I'd have to put a stick in and roll them to the edge, slat by slat, until I can reach under and grab them. 

Do pigeons grieve for their eggs?

Thank you all for your advice. I will remove the eggs and candle them. I hope they are not far along as that will be an moral dilemma.


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## SerendipityCA

Ugh, I just went down to the carport and fed the ones that hang out there. I have a spare carport space so when I want to avoid the neighbors seeing, I throw it in there and they all swoop down. I thought I'd check the ledge where two pidgies hang out in the carport facing the building (not near where I feed) so I stood on a car's bumper and peeked and there were two eggs, still warm. I took them and the parent came back while I was walking away... I candled them and am not sure but they look viable... it's hard for me to tell the difference between a bacterial bloom and normal eggs, even with the photos on the internet.

But in any event they cannot be born there, it's a small ledge right behind two cars, the people are already upset about the pigeons. 

I am going to keep the eggs, refrigerate them and then when I am sure they are not viable, I will put them back up there and the parents can sit on them and maybe it will prevent them from making more viable eggs for a while.

I feel awful about this.

Does that sound like an OK plan?


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## SerendipityCA

I took photos of them, here they are: https://picasaweb.google.com/115982986253456951439/PigeonEggs?authkey=Gv1sRgCNfw3brxlIOwKA

I've had them out for about 30 minutes.


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## spirit wings

sounds like what we do almost everyday in a loft situation.. there has to be hatch control.. some will boil the eggs and replace them in the nest if they do not have any fake ones.


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## SerendipityCA

Thanks spirit wings, that makes me feel better.


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## SerendipityCA

So, I put the two from the carport in the fridge two days ago, and today I went out and removed the four warm eggs from the two nests outside my kitchen window on the ledge under the fire escape. Was tough to do, I had to thread a long serving spoon through the slats and roll them to the edge.

They watched me do it from the roof - so I decided I would take the two cold eggs and put one in each of the two nests under the fire escape, and maybe they would be content to sit on them. They've been in the fridge for two days so presumably there is no chance they are still viable.

When the guy comes to seal the netting - I've called the landlord to ask that he let me know so I can shoo the birds up and out to safety - I suppose they'll go through withdrawal if they can't get to the nest.

Would it be better to take the two fake eggs now, so they won't be distressed at the thought they can't get to their nests, when they are sealed off?

I don't even know if they are going to sit on these eggs ... I assumed they would though.

I can't find my flashlight so I was not able to check the four eggs for viability. They're so little. I'd almost rather not know. But if they're nearly full term ... well I'd still have to destroy them, there's just no chance they could hatch and live there for the next 6 weeks, unless I ripped the net and you've advised me not to do that.


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## spirit wings

I would suggest you go and buy some fake eggs from pigeon supply and treat these just like you would if you had your own loft.. if they can not come back to the nest because of netting from the guy sealing the netting, then they will go elsewhere.


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## Don Fischer

We recently had a thread started by, thesadman22. I think he's from England and his job is to rid pigeons from buildings. He usually just kills them but he wanted to know about catching the wild birds and keeping them alive. He wasn't treated well well by several people on here because he told what his job was. It didn't even seem to matter that he was looking for a way to keep from killing them.

Looking at this new thread from San Francisco, we have a problem that if it grew out of hand, the owner might call in someone like thesadman to fix the problem. I suspect that being where this problem is, the birds would not be shot but rather either poisoned or trapped and disposed of; read into that what you will. I only mention this because of the treatment thesadman got. I did recieve several PM's from him and he really didn't get why he was getting some of the posts he was getting.


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## Don Fischer

SerendipityCA said:


> Ugh, I just went down to the carport and fed the ones that hang out there. I have a spare carport space so when I want to avoid the neighbors seeing, I throw it in there and they all swoop down. I thought I'd check the ledge where two pidgies hang out in the carport facing the building (not near where I feed) so I stood on a car's bumper and peeked and there were two eggs, still warm. I took them and the parent came back while I was walking away... I candled them and am not sure but they look viable... it's hard for me to tell the difference between a bacterial bloom and normal eggs, even with the photos on the internet.
> 
> But in any event they cannot be born there, it's a small ledge right behind two cars, the people are already upset about the pigeons.
> 
> I am going to keep the eggs, refrigerate them and then when I am sure they are not viable, I will put them back up there and the parents can sit on them and maybe it will prevent them from making more viable eggs for a while.
> 
> I feel awful about this.
> 
> Does that sound like an OK plan?


Sounds like a pertty good plan. Don't feel bad. You can only do what you can do and then the fact that sometimes life just sucks becomes a reality. No matter what you do, those pigeons are going to breed again.


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## Jay3

Take the eggs and throw out the nests when they try to rebuild. They'll get over it, and go nest somewhere else. Having to monitor the nests and keep taking eggs, when in the end they are going to have to leave anyway, and they probably won't tell you when they are coming to net. They'll just throw the net up. Chasing the birds out is the best thing you can do for them. If you keep at it, they will go somewhere else. Hopefully somewhere safer.


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## Libis

SerendipityCA said:


> Ugh, I just went down to the carport and fed the ones that hang out there. I have a spare carport space so when I want to avoid the neighbors seeing, I throw it in there and they all swoop down.


I think for the safety of the birds you need to destroy the nests--as others have said--but also please don't feed them. That will keep them coming into a place that is rapidly becoming dangerous to them. If you encourage them to keep coming they might end up getting shot or poisoned.


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## flewthecoupe

Just my opinion

Feeding them doesnt help the situation
Why would they leave if threes a good food source .

Those eggs you posted are fertile

Wood ( fake )eggs will help


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## SerendipityCA

Oh boy.

So the two I posted were fertile.

And the four I took away today, I put in the fridge for about 12 hours. I was going to throw them away but I guess I wanted to know ... now I'm sorry, but I cracked them open.

The two from one nest were fertile - they had tiny little embryos in them.

But the two from the other nest - they were not only fertile, they were VERY developed. They even had feathers.

Now I feel like a sick murderer.

At least I'm glad I didn't boil them. They just went to sleep in the fridge, I guess, and never woke up. 

There's no chance they're still alive, is there? I didn't see any movement. I didn't break open the placenta, they're still inside.

I don't know how to dispose of them respectfully - I don't want to put them in the garbage. I thought about putting them in the compost, at least that would be the cycle of life.

On the one hand, there are a lot of pigeons and their babies and grandbabies who are probably alive today because I fed them and they had a safe place to nest.

On the other hand, you all are right, if I continue to feed, they will continue to hang around and breed in the area. And I killed six babies (or potential babies) in the past few days, so my net contribution to the pigeon world is creeping toward zero and if this keeps up, I'm going to turn into a pigeon serial killer or at least a serial abortionist. Which was not my original intention.

They now are waiting for me every day, and this morning before I went out, I heard someone shoo at them before getting into her car.

Maybe if I feed every other day, that'll give them some support while they forage for alternate food sources. I don't want to cut them off right away.

And I'll go back to feeding at night. I switched to daytimes (in my spare carport space) because the guy who I think suspected me is a night owl and I'm sure he could hear the seed as it landed on the carport roof. But feeding at night on the roof least kept them off the ground, and since they're early risers, they would usually eat and be gone before people got up and went out to their cars.

Anyway, as for that guy who's a night owl, his building has been completely pigeon-proofed so he doesn't have a vested interest in this anymore.


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## SerendipityCA

PS I amost feel lucky that I couldn't find my flashlight so I couldn't candle the eggs, becasue if I had candled those two and seen how developed they were, I couldn't have removed them and then we'd have a problem in a week or so, with 6 weeks of squeaking babies - I would have had to cut the net... and I would have gotten into trouble. Maybe it's best this way, though I hate that they were so advanced.

Yup, time to suck it up and stop feeding. I'll do every other day for a while, then maybe start feeding around the corner by the gas station every other day, so they learn not to come onto our property.

I'm going to miss them


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## Libis

SerendipityCA said:


> PS I amost feel lucky that I couldn't find my flashlight so I couldn't candle the eggs, becasue if I had candled those two and seen how developed they were, I couldn't have removed them and then we'd have a problem in a week or so, with 6 weeks of squeaking babies - I would have had to cut the net... and I would have gotten into trouble. Maybe it's best this way, though I hate that they were so advanced.
> 
> Yup, time to suck it up and stop feeding. I'll do every other day for a while, then maybe start feeding around the corner by the gas station every other day, so they learn not to come onto our property.
> 
> I'm going to miss them


Sadly, this is how it's gotta be if you want any of them to survive. 

I don't think I would feed them in the carport at all ever again. Not even every other day to wean them down. You don't know when/if your landlord is going to put out poison--and if they're used to eating from people they'll trust seed that's left out.


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## Jay3

Libis said:


> Sadly, this is how it's gotta be if you want any of them to survive.
> 
> *I don't think I would feed them in the carport at all ever again. Not even every other day to wean them down. You don't know when/if your landlord is going to put out poison--and if they're used to eating from people they'll trust seed that's left out.*


*
*



That's a good point, sadly.


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## Don Fischer

This is not aimed at the op although she falls in the group. People who feed wild animals and birds become the worst enemy of those they are feeding. You unknowingly make panhandlers out of them. Next thing you know they become a problem. With wild animals they loose their fear of man and with birds, they move in with all the inlaws. With either one, animals or birds, man then must step in and handle a problem that never should have come up in the first place.

Think about your bird feeder. You keep food in it and they never leave. Instead they hang out and crap all over the deck! Take away the food and they leave soon after.


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## SerendipityCA

You all are right. It has taken me a couple of years to realize that. It started out with me just throwing up food on the carport roof at night - they'd come to eat in the dawn hour, before anyone woke up, they didn't know me because I always did it at night and so they didn't associate the food with me, and then after they swooped in and ate, they'd go somewhere else. 

Gradually, they began hanging out around the building, and I broke my rule about not letting them see me, so they recognized me, then they were hanging out on the carport roof and would get excited when they saw me, then they started nesting on the fire escapes, and on any tiny ledge, no matter how inappropriate, that they could find.

I've known for a long time that I should stop feeding...

I went out today and put food on the sidewalk around the corner. It was within the line of sight to the top of my building where a bunch of them were sitting after they flew up there (they had come out to the carport when I went back there, but I left without feeding them). I thought if I called and they saw me throwing seed they would come to eat - especially since I had my dog, whom they recognize - two came, the others didn't.

I'm having a hard time going cold turkey, and I thought that if I fed around the corner they would learn to go there and wait for food. But then again, it's close enough that they might still think nesting around my building was a good idea.

I agree with Don Fischer, I'm basically the problem here, not the birds! Gotta suck it up...


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## Charis

I don't think it's wise to go cold turkey but gradually cut down, giving them time to search out other feeding places. Feral pigeons are here because of us, humans brought them here and eat they our discards. They, more than other wildlife, are more dependent upon us. Life is hard for a city pigeon. A city pigeon would never survive in the woods or a forest. They need humans. That's what's so ironic about all of this.


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## Jay3

I agree with Charis. You made them dependent, now it wouldn't be right to just stop. They may not have another food source. Cut back and give them a bit less. After a while cut down a bit more. Maybe they will be able to find another source of food, but you need to give them time.


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## SerendipityCA

Thank you Charis and Jay3, what you say makes sense, and I really want to do that... after all, there are probably a lot more pigeons in this environment because of me than there ordinarily would be, so there are more pigeons having to share the same amount of street scraps. Fortunately I am on the edge of a commercial area, but not right in it, so they'd have to go at least a block to find ANY food (other than whatever they can scrounge on residential sidewalks which is not much). Besides, I have 1.5 full 50# bags of seed left 

I think I might be able to train them away from my building without much difficulty. Unfortunately anywhere else I would feed them is a lot less safe than the privacy and freedom from traffic of the carport area behind my building. I live on a busy street, and the streets bounding my building are also busy. But there is a sidewalk area next to the gas station that is okay - not in traffic. My poor boobies!


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## Libis

This has been posted somewhere here before--but I thought this study to be applicable to the conversation and couldn't find the original post:


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## Don Fischer

I would turn them off cold turkey.They will find other feed, they spend most of their time finding feed till something like this happens. Then once they find a good source, they become great customer's till the feed runs out. Then they go find another source. They now have formed a habit. If you used to smoke or know someone that has or someong trying to quit, you cannot cut down to a half pack a day. It's is addictive for most people. Eating is addictive for birds, cold turkey is the way to go.

Don't worry about where they will find their next meal, they will find it!


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## Don Fischer

I would turn them off cold turkey.They will find other feed, they spend most of their time finding feed till something like this happens. Then once they find a good source, they become great customer's till the feed runs out. Then they go find another source. They now have formed a habit. If you used to smoke or know someone that has or someong trying to quit, you cannot cut down to a half pack a day. It's is addictive for most people. Eating is addictive for birds, cold turkey is the way to go.

Don't worry about where they will find their next meal, they will find it!


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## Jay3

Don Fischer said:


> I would turn them off cold turkey.They will find other feed, they spend most of their time finding feed till something like this happens. Then once they find a good source, they become great customer's till the feed runs out. Then they go find another source. They now have formed a habit. If you used to smoke or know someone that has or someong trying to quit, you cannot cut down to a half pack a day. It's is addictive for most people. Eating is addictive for birds, cold turkey is the way to go.
> 
> Don't worry about where they will find their next meal, they will find it!


Well that isn't true, that they will just be able to find food. It isn't their fault that they came to depend on these feedings. Food isn't addictive for them. It's a matter of survival. If they are cut down in the amount of food fed, they will have to try and find other food sources to get enough to sustain. You cut back on the amount and let them do that. That would certainly be the more fair and kinder way of doing it. And you certainly cannot compare it to a habit like smoking. Cutting back will force them to look else where.


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## SerendipityCA

Not to mention, there are more of them than there used to be - BECAUSE OF ME. I upset the balance of nature by changing the supply/demand equilibrium. I increased the supply (of food), and the demand went up as a result (healthier pidgies make more babies). So I'm morally obligated to give them a soft landing, I think.

I still can't shake the image of those two little babies with their feathers and big eyes, in their embryonic sacs.


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## Don Fischer

Yes it is true. What happens when you let your bird feeder run out for whatever reason? The birds drop you like a hot rock and find somewhere else to eat. As long as the feed is there, they will come. You are right, it is survival. But if they don't eat, they get hungry. Something in their body is telling them it's time to east. Just like quitting smokeing, something in your body say's it time for a smoke. The longer they don't eat, the more they'll learn to do without till they are dead from starvation.

I don't know your age but, when I was a kid, long time ago, we made a few trips through Yellowstone Park. It was always great to see the bears along side the road panhandling. They had become seemingly tame. They weren't they were still wild. To stop the bears from doing that, tthe park administration wouldn't allow people to stop and feed them any more. It had become very dangerious and the bears did not starve. Neither will these pigeons.

I think the idea of cutting them off slowly is a strictly human though that the birds can't do without them. Where do you think those birds are all day waiting for the handout? They are looking for food somewhere else and, they are finding it. Maybe not the nice food being fed in the carport but they are finding it. Probably panhandling in a city park some where. You need to trust this, the only reason birds survive in the wild is not because we feed them, it's because they instinctively find food.! The result of us feeding them is we make them lazy and they become a panhandler.

Racers say keep your birds hungry, they'll come in quicker. And if they never get fed what then? They are gonna eat. They will still roost in your loft but they will find food somewhere else. How many times have we heard of the homer's that get lost and join up with ferals. That's why some home so well so I'm told, they have homer in them. Don't you find it odd that rather than dieing, they survived to breed the ferals? Hey, they got turned loose a long way from home and food and they got lost, they did not die!

Tell ya what, they won't die off in a two or three days. Quit for two or three days and see what happens. Although they will come back to nest, they won't be begging food. Years ago I had the habit of feeding my ferals in the driveway and when I came out, they came down. Finally occured to me that they would not go back in because they had what they wanted outside, food.
When I quit feeding they went back in looking for food. And I do have some flying around the country here that got lost and lived! I put chicken bands on my birds. Back then I'd pick up ferals trapped by a local sheep man. They were raiding his feed pen. Somehow some of those birds had got chicken leg bands! I suspect they were mine and they did not starve when they got lost, they survived!

The lady will do the pigeons no favor by simply reducing their food, she must take it away. I am quite sure that if she keeps feeding them a little she will feel better knowing they have something to eat. But doing it to make herself feel better about it, will not stop the birds from looking for handout there.


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