# Garlic & GSE



## penname (Jul 28, 2008)

I'm probably going to get shot for having too many questions! 

(For a dove).
I've read the thread about the goodness of garlic and I looked everywhere here in Egypt for softgels but they only have the hard capsule variety, would that be ok if I broke it into pieces? If not I saw this on Amazon, is it good? :

http://www.amazon.com/Schiff-Foods-...&m=A2QKWBPJ6K5QL6&s=hpc&qid=1227883683&sr=1-2

or should I get this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Natures-Basic...8U0Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1227886383&sr=8-1

I also want to get some GSE because I've been reading about its apparently miraculous benefits for us and pets, I found this liquid version of it, would it be good for my birds etc:

http://www.amazon.com/Nutribiotic-GSE-Liquid-Concentrate-oz/dp/B000139ZZW/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

Sorry about all the questions!


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## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

If you cut up the pill it should be fine, or just put a clove of garlic in the water.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I do not know anything about Grapefruit seed, but I think if you have the garlic and good seed and probiotics, feed some greens, and the grits and oystershell, you are good to go. I try to keep it simple and stay close to their natural feedstuffs as possible, organic Acv has good probios in it as well. you might want to add a little more protein as the dove you are keeping is a wild dove and they can eat small insects...


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## penname (Jul 28, 2008)

Ok so the general consensus is I can either use the capsules cut into bits of even better real garlic in the water. I'll give that a go, thanks!

I ordered the GSE anyway, it's good for colds and disinfecting stuff so even if I don't use it for the birds it will be put to good use. I remember reading it's good to put in the bird's bathwater though. I'll read up more on it. Thanks for your help everyone!

Here's some info I found on the subject for those interested:

http://www.birdsnways.com/wisdom/ww56e.htm

http://www.cagenbird.com/GSE.htm

http://www.avianweb.com/birdbaths.html

http://www.landofvos.com/articles/wingtips/gse.html

http://www.africangreys.com/articles/nutrition/grapefruit.html


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## penname (Jul 28, 2008)

spirit wings said:


> I try to keep it simple and stay close to their natural feedstuffs as possible, organic Acv has good probios in it as well. you might want to add a little more protein as the dove you are keeping is a wild dove and they can eat small insects...


You're absolutely right. The vet I took Noddy to see when he was young and sickly (specialised in dogs and cats but it was better than nothing) told me to give him protein every now and then since he can't eat worms and insects. He actually likes boiled beef and egg yolk, vampire dove


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Penname,



You can just mince a little fresh raw Garlic and set it next to his Seeds...same with various fresh leafy Greens, just mince into tiny Dove-sized bites...



GSE can be a problem if given conurrently with various Medicines...the Body tends to conentrate on breaking down or excreting the GSE while the medicines remain longer in the system, causing over-dose...so, as for which medicines would or would not have this happen, I dunno...but some can.



Phil
l v


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## penname (Jul 28, 2008)

OK so I'll just use the GSE for disinfecting. As I've been reading more on it, it seems dubious on the internal organs etc. but good as a disinfectant and a bit in the bath water as long as the bird doesn't drink it seems a good way to go. Thank you for all your valuable replies, I really appreciate you all taking the time to help me in these issues


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Actually, some time ago I posted a link here for Berrimax and Citromed from
Sinornis Pharma Ltd:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f6/another-product-from-sinornis-pharma-ltd-12097.html

As you can see, the man responsible for distributing Citromed told me that
GSE was essentially the same product as Citromed and that I should go to a health food store and just buy human grade GSE as it would be of better quality and cheaper.

I think you'll find that GSE come's strongly recommended as a water additive
for promoting good health in Pigeons and helping to provide an acidic environment for the production of good bacteria which helps to crowd out disease fostering bacteria. It is also touted as a topical disinfectant.

It is considered to have anti-bacterial, anti-viral and anti-fungal properties
in tests that were performed, here are a couple of links:

http://www.racingbirds.com/gse.html

From this link (Check out Bruno's post):

http://forum.pigeonbasics.com/m-1145217634/

These quotes:

"Grapefruit seed extract the answer to all our problems? Well let�s see. Luckily for us scientists have already tested it against all sorts of ailments. Grapefruit Seed Extract, according to published sources, is effective against more than 800 bacterial and viral organisms, 100 strains of fungus, and a large number of single-cell and multi-celled parasites. It is a powerful antiviral and antibacterial agent, effective against Gram(+) and Gram(-) bacteria, including Streptococcus, Staphylococcus, Salmonella, Escherichia. coli, Klebsiella shigella, Dysentaria, Chlamydia, Helicobactor, Vibrio cholerae, Lysteria, Candida albicans, Aspergillus and Herpes. It is also an effective antimycotic and antiprotozoal agent, killing Giardia and Entamoeba including their cysts. Wow what a list!"

"But hold on I hear you all say. It kills bacteria does that mean all bacteria? The answer is no. It doesn�t kill the friendly bacteria that are needed by the pigeon to keep its digestive system working. How can that be? This really is getting too good to be true. Well let�s go back to the jungle. The grapefruit wants the birds and monkeys to eat the grapefruit so that its seeds will be scattered all over the place. There would be no point in evolving chemicals that kill gut friendly bacteria as this would make the birds and monkeys ill and they wouldn�t go near the grapefruit ever again. Years of evolution, have evolved chemicals that are selective only against the bad pathogenic bacteria and fungi. This is a major additional benefit because if the birds and animals feel better after eating grapefruit there is even more incentive to take the fruit. Friendly bacteria such as Lactobacillus acidophilus and Bifidobacterium bifidus and the other 18 or so friendly bacteria are left unscathed by Grapefruit seed extract."

According to this article, GSE has been " endorsed, by the U.S Federal Drug Agency and the Pasteur Institute in France."

*Dosage: (from same link)*

The proper dosage will depend on where you obtained your grapefruit seed extract from. It is often diluted with glycerin. This is so that the active chemicals in the extract will stay in solution and to make the extract completely miscible with water. Most grapefruit seed extracts are diluted by about 50% in glycerin. So for a typical 50% grapefruit seed extract you need to work to about 100ppm for it to be effective against most of the common infections found in pigeons. 100 ppm is about 3 drops of extract in 1 pint (0.5 litre) which is equivalent to about a 5ml teaspoon in 1 gallon. The dosing regime depends will change depending on the circumstances. So for youngbirds it is best to only give it for only two days when they return from a race. The reason is that this is when they are most vulnerable to infection as they have been in a race pannier with other birds and they have been stressed. It is better not to dose beyond this as you really want the youngbirds to build up their own natural immunity. However if you have birds that have succumbed to an infection such as youngbird sickness it is better to dose it everyday or at least 1 week or more until the infection has been resolved. For older birds it can dosed more liberally than just on return from the race point. It is particularly useful if your birds drink from gutters or pick around the garden after being liberated . Grapefruit seed extract can then be given daily throughout the whole year.


Here's a link from Jedd's:

http://www.jedds.com/-strse-Supplement->>-Antioxidants-cln-Grapefruit-seed-Oil/Categories.bok

BTW, I would use GSE as a deterrent, but if my birds came down w/Canker, I use the veterinary's world of canker meds to be sure...

fp


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## white flight (Oct 19, 2008)

*Was it NOT white flight and GSE?*

Hi all!

Have I now pricked your toes so that you may sit -up and listen to the goodness found in GSE?

Keep it handy! Pure 100% extract, not "citromed" - get the real thing!

white flight ZA


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