# Alpha pigeons?



## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

Is there such a thing?
My youngest male, Gideon, is only eight weeks old but is bigger and weighs more than his brother who is twelve weeks. Gideon has started putting Gabriel in his place, the other day pecked Gabes wings and neck wrestled him out of the bath and now he's started dancing for Gully, his sister. Is it possible he is naturally an alpha male because he only picks on Gabe if Gully is involved or around the food dish or bath, Gabe always flies from him but often they'll lie together too. He's also less 'into' us humans where as the other two are like fixtures on us which confuses me as they were all raised exactly the same.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

FredaH said:


> Is there such a thing?
> My youngest male, Gideon, is only eight weeks old but is bigger and weighs more than his brother who is twelve weeks. Gideon has started putting Gabriel in his place, the other day pecked Gabes wings and neck wrestled him out of the bath and now he's started dancing for Gully, his sister. Is it possible he is naturally an alpha male because he only picks on Gabe if Gully is involved or around the food dish or bath, Gabe always flies from him but often they'll lie together too. He's also less 'into' us humans where as the other two are like fixtures on us which confuses me as they were all raised exactly the same.


*Yes, there is such a thing as alpha pigeons, they can be quite trying. Pigeons also have unique personalities like human beings, so each one is going to act different no matter how they are raised

Sounds like Gideon is maturing quickly, and interested in Gully as a mate already  and is trying to keep any competition away....what a little cutie, but much too young!
He is really coming into his own and is already trying to establish the chain of command with him on top. 

He may be an alpha male and get much more aggressive and getting more territorial as he gets older. If that is the case, he will need a hobby to keep him busy. Gabe may just be more laid back and calm. Does Gabe ever flirt with Gully? Any interest with her?

Another question, are these babies actually brothers and sister from the same clutch of eggs, or just adopted brothers and sister since hatched? *


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

There is always an alpha. The male who decides that he is top bird in the group. They can calm down in time, but sometimes not. As they get older, you will have to get a second mate for the other male. Odd numbers, or singles don't work well in a loft with pairs.


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

Yes Skyeking, the parents kept building nests on the scaffolding in ridiculous places and that's why they kept being destroyed and I had the eggs. Scaffolding has been down for a while now and they are on the roof by the air conditioning so hopefully will raise their own babies. Gabe never flirts with gully but they squabble at each other a lot, nothing serious though. 
Jay I've been given two eggs by a local tumbler breeder who had excess and was going to bin them, kinda hoping only one would develop to full term but both have and due any day - so I'll still have odd numbers and will get them DNA sexed, but of course I could end up with more males than I'd bargained for. Will males pair if there's no other option? So if an unrelated pair lay eggs in the future I'll let them hatch one egg to even out the numbers - that's my plan but that will only happen if Gabriel pairs up with a tumbler. Failing that I'll buy a youngster whose sex is known but I'm worried about introducing them to an older bird because they've accepted chicks easily having seen me handle and feed them every day - and they really are interested in what I'm doing at that point.

Parents and one of the nests on a walk board. 








Gabriel in the background with Gideon. 








Gully in the background with Gideon. 








Gully is far more delicate than the boys. 








Not good pics but gives size idea, Gideon is bulkier and 15 grams heavier than Gabe and 52 grams heavier than gully.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

No, 2 males will not always pair up. Too many males will fight, and cause stress in a loft. They will hassle the fewer females and try to break up pairs. If that happened, then you would need mates for them too. If I were you, I would either build a large loft, or stop taking eggs. You are going to have a lot of birds, and if numbers of females to males is not equal, you will be having to get more females. It adds up quickly. Then if you miss any eggs, and end up with oops babies, there are more. You would be surprised how it grows.

It also doesn't matter if they are siblings, they may pair up. It doesn't matter. You aren't going to breed them anyway. And siblings can pair up and have very normal babies anyway.


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

Yes you're right Jay and even if I had two pairs and one spare (if I'm lucky) letting a pair raise a chick doesn't mean I'll get the sex I want does it? I may just buy whatever sex I need later and once in the aviary I'll have more room to introduce them, it would be so good if these eggs are one of each because six would be a nice amount. With just three nest boxes and surrounding areas to check daily I hope to avoid any oops but I've seen on here how accidents happen and I really don't want that. 
No more eggs after these for sure.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Let's hope then that they are one of each. 
Good luck!


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

Thanks Jay, I'll find out soon enough when I send their shells off. Going to make the most of raising these as they'll be my last but one day I'd like to help rescue chicks, for now though I've never had two at once and very excited about that.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

FredaH said:


> Thanks Jay, I'll find out soon enough when I send their shells off. Going to make the most of raising these as they'll be my last but one day I'd like to help rescue chicks, *for now though I've never had two at once and very excited about that.*




LOL. I have. Like having twins.
At least you'll have a loft of friendly birds, as they have all been raised by you.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*The parents are LOVELY, Freda!! 

Can't wait to see pics of your newest hatchlings "to be"!*


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

I will post pics, try and stop me, lol. I wonder if l they'll still have yellow down because the parents are like this one.










As an aside, I didn't know the breeder but when I went to collect the eggs it was my butcher, lol - small world eh?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

They are all hatched with the yellow down. As they grow you start to see the changes. And then when they molt, they change again.


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## Clara (Oct 6, 2016)

I have the same problem with my male, he's aggressive and chases all the males and single females away.. I've been trying to get him latched to a female, but he refuses.. it's like he's an old grump.. he did for awhile "adopt" a little squeaker, (protect it from the others and allowed it in his space,) now.. not so much.. I have to separate him from the others just so the others can even eat.. I'm not sure what to do..


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

I know how frustrating it is Clara and my boy now only comes out on his own in late afternoon. To be fair on him he's wonderful at being in his cage while the others are out and I do try him out with them every couple of days but the other four give him a very wide berth and fly away if he goes towards them. Because it unsettles the others it's not fair to let him out with them but I spend time with him, although he thinks my room is his and coo's n dances at me immediately I enter - when I'm cleaning his cage and he's out he deliberately comes in and charges me, pecking really hard so I just pick him up, kiss him (I love him dearly no matter what) and gently place him on top of his cage. He's only four months old and I hope it's purely his teenage phase and hormones, I'm going to buy an adult female at some point and try to pair him up - one who doesn't know his reputation, ha ha. I hatched him and raised him myself and can't help but love him but I hate to see him outcast so I'm thinking buying in an adult 'bride' may help solve his situation. I wonder if doing that with your boy might help, a partner may be all he needs and an older bird introduced over a couple of weeks in cages next to each other out of sight of your others may do the trick. Obviously not in the same cage but once acquainted they could be put with the others in time. I hope you find a solution and would be pleased to know if you do.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Parents are gorgeous! Hope all your birds are getting along soon though.


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## Clara (Oct 6, 2016)

I tried that.. I put him in a separateator cage and it's been around a month and him and a older female won't get together.. could it be the weather? thank you for your advice.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Maybe they just don't like each other. Sure it is a female? Why do you feel you need an older female? How old is the male?


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

Perhaps, like me, Clara thinks an older female might tolerate him more and be more experienced at putting him in his place. Don't know if that works but mine scares the life out of the young ones, lol.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

It really isn't the age of the other bird, but the disposition. I have hens that are older that are door mats, and young hens who won't take anything. So it all depends on the individual bird. He just needs to meet his match. Actually, it's funny to watch when that does happen.


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

I definitely won't be getting a tumbler for him, I'm thinking a stronger tougher breed to try and match his personality. That's something to look into.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Don't think it's the breed, so the pigeon type like being a tumbler in roller or homer probably isn't the issue, it's individual personality and chemistry and gradual introductions and familiarity..."love is complicated." Blue was pretty strong willed and pushy and so was Fiona but after they lived side by side for a week, with supervised visits, after some initial squabbling, they seemed to fall madly in love and had two oops babies. Both were adults. I was not able to pair Fiona and Lucy as strong willed Fiona refused to be friends with very passive Lucy which is why I got Blue. Lucy and Tracy on the other hand, also both adults, hit it off immediately as best friends as Lucy is passive and Tracy is very outspoken and pushy. The two oops babies from Fiona and Blue, Fiona Jr and Buzzy, whose sex is still uncertain, squabble but seem to get along. Hope your alpha male has the ideal mate soon. Pigeons have unique personalities and preferences and just want a say in their mates and friends like the rest of us...some just make friends easily and some take a while. Maybe you can ask about a trial adoption with the ability to swap if the birds just don't get along.


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## Clara (Oct 6, 2016)

Yeah.. I don't know.. I'm wondering if the squeaker hes "adopted " is a female.. maybe he's waiting for her to grow up..lol


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

Well they definitely know what sex they are before we do don't they? My boy shows out to my seven week old known female tumbler but chases the other one who's sex couldn't be determined by DNA, so I now know he's a boy, lol. 

Cwebster, I don't know how big the tumblers are when adult but they're far more dainty than the ferals are and were at their ages, so I want to get a sturdy hen, especially as Gideon is a big bird, bigger than the other two and he's just four months old. I know they still may not take to each other though but I'll have to try. I'll probably go back to the tumblers breeder, he has other breeds too, and see what size some are as adults.

He's such a lovely boy I just wish he wasn't so manic with the others.


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## Clara (Oct 6, 2016)

How do you post pictures? Can't seem to post mine..


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

I upload on tinypic and resize to 'message board' then copy and paste the link. 

Took these last night - I so love this naughty boy.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

Lovely boy!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Aww, he's cute. And he knows it! LOL.


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

Yep he's cute but not as cute as my Gabe who's older but not a challenger for Gideons crown. Mamas fave.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You're right. Now that is a cute face. Very sweet.


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## FredaH (Apr 5, 2016)

He still attacks his mama just like his bro does but neck strokes calm him down - not Gideon though. Funny thing is I think I'm more drawn to these boys because of their strong characters, such naughty little fellows and yet so charming too.


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