# Building a loft



## Vivi (Sep 10, 2005)

well i finally have the permission to build a enclosure for my two pigeons that i have and i really want them to be happy. i basically want a simple home for them. i have been seeing alot of pictures from alot of different sites and they all look very complicated to build. i was wondering if i can build something like this:
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b27/VvivivV/DSC00073.jpg

well this be good enough?? of coures im not just going to copy this design but i do want the same kind of structure. i have already begun to make some designs but i need to know will this design work?? could use all the advice. 

Thanks, Ruben


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## roxtar (Aug 21, 2006)

I would build one about that size for two birds. They'll have plenty of room to exercise and it'll be plenty big enough if you end up with more birds in the future.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Hi Ruben,
I went ahead & deleted your other thread.  

The structure you have posted a picture of looks to be a nice size for two pijjies. As Roxtar has mentioned, there will be plenty of room.

Please let us know how things are coming along. 

Cindy


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## Vivi (Sep 10, 2005)

ohh thank you i was having trouble deleting it. I was wondering is this structure safe for my pigeons?? do you guys recommend anything to improve the structure?? I am planning to put up it against our house so the back will be protected but i also plan to put some walls on the sides for shelter. I plan to make it longer than wider is that ok?? My plan is to make it 7ft high, 11ft long, and 4ft wide. will this be good enough?? This is my first plan but our back yard is pretty big and there is plenty of space so things can change. But i would like to know if my original plan is good.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Vivi said:


> * *ohh thank you i was having trouble deleting it.*
> 
> I was wondering is this structure safe for my pigeons?? do you guys recommend anything to improve the structure?? I am planning to put up it against our house so the back will be protected but i also plan to put some walls on the sides for shelter. I plan to make it longer than wider is that ok??
> ** *My plan is to make it* 7ft high, *11ft long*, and 4ft wide. will this be good enough?? This is my first plan but our back yard is pretty big and there is plenty of space so things can change. But i would like to know if my original plan is good.


* Your most welcome. 

** The hardware cloth (that's the type of wire on the structure in your picture & the best to use) comes in 4 ft Wide rolls. So I would go with 12 ft L if possible. That will make a wonderful home for your pijjies.  

I'm not sure what type of flooring you plan to have, but you need to make sure no predators can dig their way under the bottom. 
Mine is inside a window enclosed room over looking the backyard so I don't need to worry about unwanted critters getting in. But if it's outside, you would.

Cindy


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## benjajudy01 (Feb 18, 2007)

Also this is a great site for a starter loft.
www.redroselofts.com


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## Vivi (Sep 10, 2005)

well actually i had a question about the flooring. outside in our backyard is pure cement and i was going to ask is it ok if i just leave it like that?? will it harm the birds if they walk on it when they go down there?? of course it is going to be 100% protected. also we have dogs outside and i was wondering if thats ok? i was thinking of getting that fence material and then cover it with the hardware cloth and then cover it with some kind of metal wall. if it is getting confusing then please tell me and i will try to do my best to clarify it. thank you for commenting roxtar and cindy (hope i can call you that) and also thanks for the link benjajudy01. I actually already saw that site and thats when the whole design thing got complicated for me. So thats why i want a simple yet strong yet safe enough structure for my birds.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Ruben,

You can use cement for the flooring as long as it dries quickly after a rain. As long as your birds have plenty of ventilation and perches and cubbies to sit on that are far off the ground that should be fine.

Pigeons have little requirements, like they can't handle any drafts of air, no standing water, and like to be up high, these things are crucial to their health.

They need protection from predators, and the dogs should not be a problem as long as they cannot get in where the pigeons are.

I have an aviary that is enclosed with a heavy gage fencing and that is overlapped with chicken wire/hardware cloth. The coop itself is enclosed with hardware cloth on all ventilation areas, where it is open. Chicken wire CANNOT be used in by itself, anything can get inside. 

Please update us with your finished product as we would love to see it, and good luck to you.


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## Vivi (Sep 10, 2005)

From Trees Gray:
"I have an aviary that is enclosed with a heavy gage fencing and that is overlapped with chicken wire/hardware cloth." 

This is what i plan to do but between the fencing and the hardware cloth i plan to but some kind of wall. A metal or wooding one because here in Los Angeles you never know what kind of weather we are going to have. And it will protect my pigeons from the wind.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Yep, wind coming from exact opposites is a "draft" and the funneling effect can cause them to get a cold, or worse, depending on their overall health.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Vivi said:


> ohh thank you i was having trouble deleting it. I was wondering is this structure safe for my pigeons?? do you guys recommend anything to improve the structure?? I am planning to put up it against our house so the back will be protected but i also plan to put some walls on the sides for shelter. I plan to make it longer than wider is that ok?? My plan is to make it 7ft high, 11ft long, and 4ft wide. will this be good enough?? This is my first plan but our back yard is pretty big and there is plenty of space so things can change. But i would like to know if my original plan is good.


I saw your post and then forgot about it..........I would close in completely at least 1/3 of whatever you build, so that the birds can get COMPLETELY out of the weather. Of course you want a door to you can go in and out but they like to be enclosed at night and during really bad weather. This way, they have the option of being inside or outside. The size you mention is plenty big enough for 2 birds. I would not however make it 7 feet tall, unless you are very tall. 6 feet is plenty. Don't know if your birds are pets or what, but if you need to catch them, a 7ft ceiling will let them fly right over your head........


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

That's a lovely setup. One addition I would suggest, if you can, is to add a vestibule or small security space at the entrance. Double doors can reduce the chance that your birds could get out when you are coming in or leaving.


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## Vivi (Sep 10, 2005)

thanks for the suggestion Lovebirds i was thinking that 7ft was pretty tall especially because im just 5' 8. and yes i do plan to cover 1/3 of it because they do need some protection against the weather. My pigeons are pets and on a good day they perch on my shoulder. Terri i was actually thinking about the door issue because i dont want my pigeons to fly away. What do you mean about "double door" and how do you suggest that i do it.


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

A vestibule is a small access area with a door, like a small entry hall or area that you can walk out or in, so that if a pigeon follows you out, you can still put him in the larger space where he should be. It safely secures the bird in the "holding" area to keep them from following you out.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

When I was a kid my loft was exposed on three sides like the one you have shown. The difference was that the two feet around the top were skirted with siding. This left areas for nest boxes and perches that were free from direct draft. In the winter I would put heavy plastic on the north and south side. We get a West wind here so the East was open to the air. The sun would shine on the South plastic and heat the loft. I did not have any sick birds and won races. My loft now is enclosed on three sides and the top half of the East wall is open to the air and the aviaries. I have ventalation low on the West wall. I also have two soon to be three windows that I can open in warm weather. Plenty of air with little or no draft. If you go with the design and leave the loft open, I would enclose a portion of the loft where the birds perch and nest. I would enclose three sides, leaving the down wind or south side open. If you are in colder climates, kill all drafts, but leave circulation. Then build an aviary for the birds. I like the starter lofts on the Redrose page. I have a club member who built one exacly to specs. Great for a few birds. If you want to race I would widen it and build sections. Much like Lovebirds widowhood loft. 
Randy


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## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

Hi,

the cage length needs to be in multiples of 4 so that you get best advantage out of your hardware cloth. my birds too are in the back yard and the floor is cement covered with seasand. I have a bullmastiff dog to protect my birds from people with the wrong intentions. regarding the door. have 2 half doors. the bottom one is the main one and the top u will open if you have to take something big in and out. are you flying your birds?


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## Vivi (Sep 10, 2005)

Warriec is the sea sand for cleaning purposes?? Is it be easier for you to clean the loft? And if you mean by flying you mean racing then it’s a no. I just want my birdies to be happy and have some flying space.


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## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

Sea sand sterileses from patogens and helps cleaning too. you just sweep the dirt off and it comes off easily than sticking to the floor.

sea sand also provides some grit and calcium.

i have read that pigeons dont need much flying space and will not inhibit any ability of flying later on so yr cage is very good so far.


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## Vivi (Sep 10, 2005)

*finally found the camera*

Well after looking for a week i finally found the camera so here is the "outline" for the loft that i plan to build










And here are a few pics of Purdie and Titian here they are eating 










and here they are spooked cuz they saw the camera










and purdie is the only one that likes me get her so heres a pic of her










please let me know about the loft design and can you please tell me what kind of pigeon purdie and titian are? 

thanxs, Ruben


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## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

i see a window on the wall. is this wndow permananlt closed because pigeon dust might enter. would a square or rectrangular shape be easier to make.


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## Vivi (Sep 10, 2005)

Well from the inside the "window" is completely closed and at first I was just going to build a rectangle loft but then I thought that it would be better if I use the back side as the nesting area so then I decided to pull up out a few ft for it can be better. The nesting area will be covered and the front would be covered.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Vivi,


Your birds are lovely.

They may be white homing pigeons or kings, I would like to see a full picture of both to help identify them.

Are there dark spots around the white wattle on Purdie?


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## Vivi (Sep 10, 2005)

no i think the feathers just got a little messed up because she (I think) was flying around the living room right before i got her to take a pic. well when i took them to the pet store because i did want to know what kind of pigeon they were they told me that they were kings but they really didnt sound confident enough. i well take a pic of both of them as soon as i can.


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## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

they look like utility kings - the kind they use on squab farms.


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## Vivi (Sep 10, 2005)

well here are two more pics of my lil ones. hope this helps you I.D. them


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## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

Must be utility king x homer crosses. they are nice and full.


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## Vivi (Sep 10, 2005)

*Little Update*

i just remembered that one of my uncles is in construction and he is the one that built or backyard fence and he came yesterday to fix it because it started to tilt because of the heavy winds we were getting lately here anyways I ask him if he would build my pigeon loft and get the material. He said of course and he will begin to get the material to build it. It should be ready in a month or two because i want to be there when he is building and it can only happen sunday because Monday thru Saturday i go to school and work. He said that it wont be a problem. I had a question about the flooring though would it be ok if i used straw for the flooring?? I was at the pet store yesterday and i went to go see their pigeons and for the flooring they used straw. Would this be a good material for them? Also would it be ok if i kept doves with my piji's?? my mom loves them and said she will buy them for me but is it safe for doves to be with pigeons??


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

The problem with straw as bedding is that it carries mold spores which can cause very bad respiratory problems with your birds. This is especially a problem if it gets damp. For good pigeon health, they must have dry housing, no drafts, yet good ventilation. That's wonderful that your uncle will be building your loft!


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## Vivi (Sep 10, 2005)

thanx TerriB i know the only money i will have to spend is on the materials to build the loft. What kind of bedding would you recommend?


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

The most important thing is that whatever bedding you use is easy to clean. I don't use any bedding in the main part of the coop, just scrape every morning. In the nest boxes, the birds enjoy arranging dry long pine needles if you can find them.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

It is generally NOT a good idea to keep doves with pigeons. It works for some of our members but often it doesn't. The doves are just too much smaller and usually less aggressive than the pigeons and end up getting seriously brutalized by the pigeons.

Terry


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## Vivi (Sep 10, 2005)

Thanx Terry remember me its Ruben we met two years ago you rescued a pigeon that i found. i was just wondering and as for the doves i already knew that it was going to be a no because of the size of the pigeon and the dove. Dont want none of my animals to get hurt. TerriB the problem for me is that my coop isnt going to nothing for the floor because its going to be cement and at first i was just going to blast it with water and scrubbing it with soap but soon found out that that wasnt going to be a good idea. So i am just going to find a bedding that is good and i plan to clean it daily and once a week change the entire bedding.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Wow, Ruben! The Vivi threw me! So good to see you here and hear from you again! I'm so glad to know that you are still into our beloved pigeons and doves!

Terry


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## Vivi (Sep 10, 2005)

Its nice to hear from you again as well and know that you still remember me Terry and of course im always going to be into pigeons not only because i love animals but because i own like a dozen birds and have always owned birds, even as a lil kid i have been interested in birds. Now im going into the pigeon hobby but just keeping them as pets. 

Ruben


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Well, this is great, Ruben! I'm so glad you are here and have birds of your own and the whole deal .. I'll look forward to hearing from you on the board.

Terry


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## Vivi (Sep 10, 2005)

Hey,

i was thinking and looking at the design for the loft and i was thinking do i need a building permit?? so then i quickly went to go look for my dad and he said that he didnt know. and i ask my mom and she said yes but then again she never really like the idea of building the loft so she might just say that for me not to build. She said that if i build it the inspector guy could come and say to knock it down. So the question is do i need a permit to build my loft?? 

Thanx, Ruben


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

*Be Careful!!!*

Oh boy do I have something to say on this one! Before I started my loft I checked with all the local authorities about zoning requirements, building requirements, et., etc. Everyone I talked to said that as long as I followed local zoning ordinances (which there are none) regarding pigeons I was fine. Well fast forward several months and I am half done with my loft. I suddenly get a visit from my local law enforcement agency. They want to know where my permit is. I infor them that I was under the impression I didn't need one. Well, sure enough, I do. Soooo.....to make a very long story not quite so long, I proceed to jump through all of the beurocratic hoops of local government to get said permit. Well, some $350 and much hastle later I have the permit in hand.

Bottom line is that as long as nobody complains or says anything, nobody will ever know. However, with my luck I will always get the phone call. To each his own on this one but I guarantee you if your local government knows you are building on your property, they will want their 2 cents (in the form af the permit).

Hope this helps,

Dan


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## roxtar (Aug 21, 2006)

For something the size that you're thinking of building I wouldn't think that you'd need one. 
I do think that you perhaps might run into some trouble with the fact that you're keeping pigeons in it and people unfortunately are ignorant to the point of absurdity about them. A lot of people inanely think that all pigeons are somehow diseased and will make your lips turn black and your arms fall off.
I'm of the mind that a little forgiveness is easier to get than permission, so if I were you I'd just go ahead and build the loft and put the birds in it. If anyone says anything to you about it, that's a bridge you can burn when you come to it. I certainly wouldn't advise you go around asking your neighbors if you can keep pigeons, you might not like their answer and it could cost you your birds. It's unfortunate but that's just how some people are. 
(I'd like to think there's a special place in Sheol just for that type of person)


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

You might also find that you don't need a permit. We went asking when we built our loft. Had to pay $15 for a electrical permit, but nothing for the building permit. I have to disagree with just building it. If you ask and they say no, then you figure out what to do, but IF there's a rule/law on the books and you break it, however stupid or absurd it seems, then expect to pay the consquences. Look at what happened in Chicago. If it can happen there, it can happen anywhere. Sure, our government has thier nose in lots of stuff they shouldn't but you and I aren't going to change that.


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## Guest (Mar 9, 2007)

what you need to do is goto your town hall and ask them if you need a permit for a shed of any type on your property..here a permit is needed for only a certain size shed, anything over 100 square feet and has to be set so far from buildings and the property lines.. now as for birds in that shed/coop you might not wanna mention that part, but while your there also look up if pigeons are allowed within your city limits ,if so then your set, but you still dont have to mention that the shed if for them less they know the better ..just my 2 cents on the subject


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## roxtar (Aug 21, 2006)

> Sure, our government has their nose in lots of stuff they shouldn't but you and I aren't going to change that.


At this point unfortunately I think you're right. 
We still have the constitutional mechanisms to do so but I'm afraid that the vast majority of the American public suffers from terminal apathy- what I like to call "MTV syndrome". 
You've got a point about him running afoul of the law and maybe having to take down his loft and be rid of his birds, but if he just builds it and keeps quiet about it and just goes about his business I think he's got a better chance of being able to do what he wants which is enjoy his birds. I've just had a bad taste left in my mouth by my moron neighbor that went absolutely bonkers as soon as I said the word pigeon. I have nothing but vile hatred and contempt for anyone that might try to tell someone what they can and can't do on their own land.


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## Vivi (Sep 10, 2005)

well thank you all for your input in the situation. I will look up and see if i need a permit and see what happens. My neighbors love my two pigeons and im sure that they will never have a problem if i build it and put my pigeons in there. One question, is the guy who checks the gas and electric stuff the guy who checks for the buildings?? im asking because for some reason he is always here, and looks onto our backyard. hopefully i could build it without one because i dont know how much it cost and building the loft is going to cost me a pretty penny and thankfully my uncle isnt charging me for his services because if he was then it would be even more. if things dont go the way i want them to go then im just going to have to build something smaller and much simpler. Again thank you all for your input.

Ruben


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

All I can tell you is the way it works in Cherokee County, Georgia. Here, the dutys of driving around and snooping into everyone's backyards falls to the County Marshal. This is who I got my little visit from. I have to say that they were very nice and very understanding of the confussion I was going through (perhaps it was because of the fact that the Marshal that came out has a child that is a student of mine!) Either way, I doubt that the utilities meter readers would have anything to do with it. It all falls back into the lap of the county building department and their inspectors. I would start there if I were you. Hope this helps.

Dan


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## Vivi (Sep 10, 2005)

thanks Dan that really cleared things up for me. last time when the inspector came was because of the neighbor that lived across the street and then he saw something wrong with the front door of the garage and just left a notice about that. The loft was going to be behind the house so you would have to come inside the house and go into our backyard to see the loft. since we have a brick fence on the east side you really cant see our backyard from the ground. and on the northern & eastern side theres a really tall metal wall so its impossible to see our backyard form that side. the way the meter guy saw into our backyard was because in our neighbors house theres a back house thats two stories and thats how he reads our meter thing. If the loft is built and complete will they still tell me to dismantle the loft if they see it??


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## learning (May 19, 2006)

I guess it really comes down to what your local ordinances and building requirements are. I really think they would rather have your money than make you take it down. In my case since I was already half done when I went in to see about a permit, they said "no problem, happens all the time" and then just charged me double for the permit. So I really think it comes down to how much money they want to try to get out of you.

Good Luck,

Dan


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