# Crop stasis troubles



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Getting one every other day, of adult ferals, young adults it seems, who fill themselves up with Water so they look like those Circus Clown figures, Crop sticking out to absurd protrusion...


Anyway, they stand 'tall' in the 'Penguin Pose' and make odd Crop movements.


With this, they have 'poop butts', yellow urates...so we do Butt Baths and get all that cleaned off each day at some point.


Throats show HUGE yellow, slick, shiney, plastic-looking "moulded' to their Throats and thicker, and I do not know what this is, if it is Canker, Thrush, or what.


Anyway, Crops do not empty with repeated doses of 'medistatin' and the so far prior two had also gotten at least a few Metronidazole or Spartrix tubed in also.


None can eat, and since the Crops do not empty, I dare not tube feed.


Lost one two days ago...

Remaining one has not had any food now for four days or five since I got him...and likely none for who knows how long prior to that when he was out in the world...his Crop is still full of Water and Meds ( I added - tubed in - some ACV to aid the prior couple Medistatin-Metronidazole tube ins..)


And I do not know what the heck to do.


Got one more today, but I had to go chase a non-releaseable I had out, so I have not examined this new one other than to note he has a yellow poop-butt and is 'thin' and has conspicuous Crop issues.


This one let me catch him, he'd been very wiley and elusive for days, and I kept talking to him, pointing to 'my' Crop area and saying "You know you have a problem there with your Crop, and, well, I think you should consider to let me see if I can help you with it..."

And by golly, today he did...

Might be a ruptured Air Sac AND other things, he has a HIGH 'bulge' going on...I will do the exam soon, was just feeling too tired to do anything else but Pigeontalk for now, and wanted to relax some.



Anyway, what can one DO for a Crop which is obviously not emptying, and, where one is running out of time for the Pigeon starving to death while one waits?


If I suction OUT the liquid, the Crop will still be blocked with whatever is blocking it now, but, maybe, I could palpate better to see if I feel anything stuck in there...so...

I have palpated all I dare, and I could not feel anything to suggest a foreign object or foreign obturation...but he is SO full of Water I was pretty shy with the palpating...




Phil
l v


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Hi Phil,

I am one of the new ones around here. 

I had a bird a few years ago that was quite ill and took her to the vet but could not afford for her to be hospitalized. So they did a crop flush and prescribed medicines for her, can't remember what they were now. They also administered Sub-Q fluids and showed me how to do this at home. A little scary at first, but after doing it a few times it was fairly easy to do. The vet said that it was critical that she remain well hydrated, as when they become dehydrated their body kind of just shuts down. Anyway, I think if you could get the fluid that is just sitting there out, it would a good thing, as you may be able to easier feel if there is something in there blocking things up.

I found this link describing the procedure, http://easternwildlifecenter.com/June_EWC_Newsletter.pdf . I gave my bird 10cc twice a day, by her knee in the groin area . Perhaps your vet could do the same, do a good crop flush and show you how to give Sub-Q fluids (maybe you already know). 

Karyn


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Dobato said:


> Hi Phil,
> 
> I am one of the new ones around here.
> 
> ...




Hi Karin,



Thanks for your good mentions there.


"Pigeon No. 1" - lets call him - he has the HUGE Water Crop... I have been checking all day, and as of this afternoon, he is passing 'white' 'drooly' liquid Urates and even tiny amounts of fecal matter...so, some fluids are getting through, and, overall, though emaciated, he is not dehydrated.


"Pigeon No. 2" who I just took in a few hours ago, I could tell his issue was different, but, I thought maybe similar...and now that I have examined him, I find he has a very large firm 'mass' on his Throat, which looked like a high Crop bulge or Air Sac issue, but is probably a Tumor, Abcess, or Canker mass, and it is huge.

He made a couple poops already, Urates and poo-matter both shades of greyish, so he had been eating and drinking prior to my getting him, and apparently, his Crop is able to pass things...though his Crop does feel pretty empty.

His Throat is clear, but he had a yellow-caked poop-butt, so we got all that washed off, and I plunked a Metronidazole Tablet down his gullet...so, his issues are different it turns out, than "Pigeon No. 1".



I will try suctioning out the Liquid from "Pigeon No. 1 " Crop here in a little while, and then see if I can palpate or investigate better.


If nothing else, at least if there is less Liquid in there, what medicines I might give will be not so watered down anyway, even if they can not go anywhere in a timely manner.



Phil
l v


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Well..."Pigeon No. 1" who had the huge volume of Liquid in his Crop, has passed away just a little while ago between my visits with him and getting some Work done..


So...


The one I got this afternoon, who has the large firm 'mass' on his Neck...I tried spending a little time talking with him, and long story short, he is pecking Seeds and letting me rub his tummy and peck with him and stuff, so he will not be so nervous now for me examining him some more soon, to try and see what the deal is with that big lump-thing, other than I sort of suppose it is Canker, but, who knows...might be an Abcess.

Up high though...


Phil
l v


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Over the past year I had several birds with crop stasis. Some recovered, a few did not. I took a couple to my vet and crop swabs and fecals did not reveal anything. My vet suggested it might be a virus that causes this and he mentioned that PMV even in the absence of other symptoms can cause this. 
The treatment he suggested is injectable antibiotics as the po ones won't do a thing in crop stasis and injectable Reglan did help in most cases. Injectable Flagyl would be ideal but my vet doesn't carry it so I always gave them Flagyl po not having another choise. Combined with Reglan some should get through.
Sq fluids and only a few cc's at a time of pedialyte po to keep them hydrated. Once they start passing the fluids I gave them Emeraid 5-6cc's three-four times a day. 
The ones who recovered showed improvement within a couple of days. 

Reti


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## little bird (Aug 11, 2006)

Prayers are with you, Phil, hope you find some answers.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Dobato has given some good advice. If you can't milk the crop and give lactated ringers sub q then maybe your vet could do it for you. 

Cynthia


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Phil, I am so sorry to hear the news you lost one of them. I am hoping, and saying a prayer, for better outcome for the other.

Karyn


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Reti said:


> Over the past year I had several birds with crop stasis. Some recovered, a few did not. I took a couple to my vet and crop swabs and fecals did not reveal anything. My vet suggested it might be a virus that causes this and he mentioned that PMV even in the absence of other symptoms can cause this.
> The treatment he suggested is injectable antibiotics as the po ones won't do a thing in crop stasis and injectable Reglan did help in most cases. Injectable Flagyl would be ideal but my vet doesn't carry it so I always gave them Flagyl po not having another choise. Combined with Reglan some should get through.
> Sq fluids and only a few cc's at a time of pedialyte po to keep them hydrated. Once they start passing the fluids I gave them Emeraid 5-6cc's three-four times a day.
> The ones who recovered showed improvement within a couple of days.
> ...




Hi Reti, 


I wish I knew where to get injectible 'Metronidaole'...


Anyway, I spoke carelessly saying "one every other day now" when what I should have said, was, of the last five Pigeons I have gotten in this last ten days or so, "two" have had this odd Crop issue of a Crop full of Water, which does not pass even though I had given meds orally..."


Usually, in the past, these kinds of Crops would empty once I had started ACV or 'Medistatin' and from there, we'd do whatever else...

'Straight' ACV can be tubed in to anticipate the dilution, if one feels it is Candida one is addressing, but a 'long' tube of course would be kindest.


I sort of think he and the prior one a few days ago who passed...that there may have been a literal 'plug' of inflamitory debris, blocking the passage to the Stomach...in addition to whatever swelling or puffing the tissues were doing low in the Crop...and as you observe, without enough time for the necessarily dilute medicines to be able to allow their bodys to let go of the 'plug' ( either way, an attacted build up of debris, or a lose plug, if it is blocking the passage, it is going to be a serious or lethal problem with no easy solution, IF there even is a 'plug' at all ).


If I had gotten all that liquid "out" the meds would have at least had a little bit better chance to effect things topically, if hardly much chance I suppose, given I do not have access to any injectables for Canker, though I do have injectable Pennicillin and Baytril-kin.


I do not know if this last one was Canker, or Thrush/Candida...only that the Throat was very full of solid, yellow, shiney 'smooth' material which looked like plastic, but was not any object as such, but was growing there or very firmly moulded to his Throat.

These kinds of Crops have also occur of course in association with literal foreign objects being lodged or stuck in there.


One prior time I was dealing with these odd 'Throat' debris things, ( his Crop was not in stasis however ) I treated with Anti-Canker, Baytril ( or was it Doxycycline?) , and Medistatin, and it took quite a while to get rid of the debris, which the Bird finally shook out once it was loosened from it's attatchent to his Throat.


If such debris were to occur at the passage of the Crop to the Stomach,or were swallowed to end up there loose, I expect it could plug that passage, and or with residual foods impacting also, would.


The one who shook out his Throat debris, was a small, young adult Pigeon, the material was like the 'firm' sort of 'Tofu' and was huge...an inch long, almost a half inch wide and broad, and very rubbery and not fragile or easily torn or mushed.


Oh golly...


I will try some more to locate injectible Metronidazole, but I think it is pretty hard for a person to come by.



My Vet has it, but he is not always available and also, it is a thin line as for me wearing out my welcome if I go TOO often to see him...so...



Phil
l v


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Dobato said:


> Phil, I am so sorry to hear the news you lost one of them. I am hoping, and saying a prayer, for better outcome for the other.
> 
> Karyn




Thanks Karyn,



The other has a different issue and I was careless in my intro mentioning him.
'

He has a large firm mass high on his Crop and slightly to one side.


His Crop is 'flat'...


He is pooping, and able to eat and drink,has a clear Throat...and is on Metronidazole so far.


I have not made any decision as for using an antibiotic yet...


He is thin...too...


Phil
l v


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> Anyway, they stand 'tall' in the 'Penguin Pose' and make odd Crop movements.
> 
> Throats show HUGE yellow, slick, shiney, plastic-looking "moulded' to their Throats and thicker, and I do not know what this is, if it is Canker, Thrush, or what.


Canker in the mouth has two main forms:


> the crumbly , firm, yellow mass in the area of the palate or tongue and *the soft creamy white form deeper in the throat*. F.D.W. Harper B.V.Sc. M.R.C.V.S “Coughs and Colds: Croaks and Canker.


The *“penguin posture”* is also a symptom of canker:

These are the signs of canker listed by Dr Colin Walker in his Flying Vet Pigeon Health Management book.


_1. 'Penguin' posture - Associated with proventricular (glandular stomach) and crop pain. Birds will lean back on their tails and gulp. Noticed particularly after eating and drinking.

2. 'Dry feather' - Due to lack of down feather drop and bloom production.

3. 'Leady' feel - Affected birds will not come into condition and feel heavy in the hand.

4. Wet dropping - Inflammation in the digestive tract creates a thirst, leading to elevated water intake and urine production. This produces a clear watery rim around the dropping.

5. Green droppings - Due to digestive tract irritation and in some birds decreased food intake.

6. Inflammation in the throat - Tonsillitis and increased clear to grey bubbly mucus.

7. Interference with crop function - Delayed crop emptying and sometimes vomiting.

8. Increased food consumption by team as a whole

9. Dry yellow canker - In birds of any age, this tells you that many other birds have elevated trichomonad levels, which have not yet passed the threshold for yellow material to form.

10. Indirect signs - Poor loft flying, poor tossing, respiratory problems that respond poorly to medication or quickly relapse, a dramatic improvement in the birds' general vigour in response to anticanker medication are all suggestive._

You have already stated that you are convinced that the incidence of crop stasis caused by canker is as low as 5% in the Mojave Desert compared to 90% elsewhere, but I think that you would be wise to consider that you may have missed a few cases, attributing them to blockage caused by debris or by a foreign object.

For others that might encounter possible crop stasis, or sour crop, this is what Dr Colin Walker has to say about the subject:

_Sour crop

In pigeons with sour crop, at least 90% have an internal canker nodule located at the base of the crop or within the glandular stomach (proventriculus). As the nodule increases in size, it squashes the windpipe making breathing difficult and blocking the crop outlet. This interferes with crop emptying, leading to bacterial infection of the crop and secondary starvation and dehydration due to the crop contents not being able to pass into the bird's system. Usually by the time the bird is noticed to be unwell, the condition has passed the point where it will respond to treatment. Deaths often occur due to the nodule growing through the stomach wall, leading to stomach contents leaking into the chest. Alternatively, the nodule can damage the heart or large blood vessels within the chest, causing sudden and severe bleeding. Such birds are often found dead on the floor with blood coming from the mouth. It is always worth attempting to treat valuable birds and I suggest :
• Manually empty the crop
• Give electrolytes in water 
• Treat bird with 3 drops Baytril twice daily
• Treat bird with 1 tablet of Spartrix or a 1/4 Flagyl tablet or 0.5 ml Flagyl syrup once daily
• Separate unwell bird from loft mates_

Cynthia


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