# Social Behavior



## USA4thewin (Oct 10, 2011)

So as I spend more and more time to get to know my birds and trying to figure them out. I am quietly observing one behavior in particular, that is interesting. In the current temporary dog kennel I am housing my 2 oldest pair of homers that were placed almost 3 weeks ago. they all have plenty of space a good sound safe environment to make babies. So Butch and Chuck chose their better halves like most of us men do. This is what is happening now when Butch is in the process of mounting the female Chuck jumps in and starts pecking her or Butch to make them stop. So Chuck is a Bully I got it.

Then when Chuck goes to mount the love of his life Butch gets in the way and starts pecking either the male or female. So what ever mounting I have seen happening is either when pair is asleep or really busy doing something else.

Chuck is the Alpha he controls everything but also Butch is pretty strong as well stands his ground protects the motel he is staying at so I leave them to settle things their way.

So why is this happening ?


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## horseart4u (Jun 16, 2011)

it is a male thing, all males do it, i have older & younger male and even hens that will do it...you can't stop them, but in the long run they will find their time to have " fun " and have eggs & young..


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

It is all about the instinct to reproduce whilst preventing others from doing so. Pigeons are 'social' creatures but they have no concepts like 'plenty for everybody', be it food or nesting sites. If they had the capacity to think it out it could be something like: 

"Now, if they mate and produce a couple of squabbies, then before long the young will be grown and competing for food, and we don't want them getting food _we_ need and _our_ young will need".

The pigeon's major objectives are self-preservation and continuing their bloodline. 

That's my unscientific take on it, anyway


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## buttertup (Oct 16, 2011)

and it's not just pigeons. Our dog has made herself a permanant fixture in between my husband and I when we go to sleep. No tomfoolery going on when she is in the room, she goes to pieces. I had this idea that if we reproduced her pack status would change, and she knows it. Crazy thought I know, but there it is.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

buttertup said:


> and it's not just pigeons. Our dog has made herself a permanant fixture in between my husband and I when we go to sleep. No tomfoolery going on when she is in the room, she goes to pieces. I had this idea that if we reproduced her pack status would change, and she knows it. Crazy thought I know, but there it is.


Well, doggies ain't dumb


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## USA4thewin (Oct 10, 2011)

> but in the long run they will find their time to have " fun " and have eggs & young..


True to that seen em right after sunset .

Still its a weird behavior especially knowing that Pigeons are monogamous animals, you would think they will mind their own business. Hard to put dogs here as their pack order and mating structure is very different. I will let them be and hope to see young ones soon.


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## PigeonVilla (Dec 8, 2010)

This is a good reason to make your lofts nest boxes to spec so they can do their thang without getting knocked off the top when topping their mate .


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

PigeonVilla said:


> This is a good reason to make your lofts nest boxes to spec so they can do their thang without getting knocked off the top when topping their mate .



Actually, their nest boxes have nothing to do with it. They don't always mate in their boxes. Plenty of times, they are elsewhere in the loft. That is when another male will try to stop them from mating. They want to be the only one to mate.


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## PigeonVilla (Dec 8, 2010)

Jay3 said:


> Actually, their nest boxes have nothing to do with it. They don't always mate in their boxes. Plenty of times, they are elsewhere in the loft. That is when another male will try to stop them from mating. They want to be the only one to mate.


 And that is why a nest box should be big enuf for them to get the job done in is nessessary!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

But only a few pairs come out into the loft to breed. Most do stay in their boxes. I think the few pairs that do, just like to show off. Wouldn't matter how large their box was.


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## PigeonVilla (Dec 8, 2010)

Jay3 said:


> But only a few pairs come out into the loft to breed. Most do stay in their boxes. I think the few pairs that do, just like to show off. Wouldn't matter how large their box was.


 Thats why mine enjoy their time out of the loft so they can top their hen without being knocked off lol even then its never a sure thing .


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## USA4thewin (Oct 10, 2011)

Pigeonville can you please show me an example of the spec boxes you mention ? I know if I lock pairs up in nest boxes they become bound to them.

Thanks


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## rpalmer (Mar 10, 2011)

Jay3 said:


> Actually, their nest boxes have nothing to do with it. They don't always mate in their boxes. Plenty of times, they are elsewhere in the loft. That is when another male will try to stop them from mating. They want to be the only one to mate.


From what I see at my loft one of their favorite places to couple is in my flight pen. The cock and sometimes the hen will chase the other birds back into the loft and then they do their thing. There seems to be an understanding with the birds in general that this is to be accepted and honored.


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## horseart4u (Jun 16, 2011)

mine are like that they would rather mate in the flight pen then in their boxes or in the loft...and yes a few of the other male, even females will jump in, but i find eggs 10 days later


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## USA4thewin (Oct 10, 2011)

Alright good news.. I saw my very first egg today. Day 20 of my project 
bad news she laid it on the ground in the middle of the kennel she has 8 rooms to lay an egg and she didnt use any of them. She is incubating and seems happy. However, the males are running up and down the bottom of the kennel pecking at each other and the violence has just gotten worst.

The best decision I could come up with was to remove the pair that didnt lay an egg and place them in a breeding cage. giving the current egg on the ground a better chance at making it to hatch date.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

rpalmer said:


> From what I see at my loft one of their favorite places to couple is in my flight pen. The cock and sometimes the hen will chase the other birds back into the loft and then they do their thing. There seems to be an understanding with the birds in general that this is to be accepted and honored.



That's funny. Maybe they could hang a little "DO NOT DISTURB" sign in the window to the flight pen.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Even if it hatches, don't think the babies would be safe there. I'd try putting her and her egg into a box.


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## horseart4u (Jun 16, 2011)

yes leave eveyone alone just try putting her and the egg in a box, with a nest bowl and make sure you have nesting material, she may still sit and deside to lay second one there in about 48 hours, i wouldn't leave on the grouns ( dirt & grass ) bugs ants not good. if she abandons it and lays other on ground get rid of that one too and hope her and her mate find a box, the male picks the box so i wonder why he didn't chase her to it.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

USA4thewin said:


> Alright good news.. I saw my very first egg today. Day 20 of my project
> bad news she laid it on the ground in the middle of the kennel she has 8 rooms to lay an egg and she didnt use any of them. She is incubating and seems happy. However, the males are running up and down the bottom of the kennel pecking at each other and the violence has just gotten worst.
> 
> The best decision I could come up with was to remove the pair that didnt lay an egg and place them in a breeding cage. giving the current egg on the ground a better chance at making it to hatch date.


sounds like you have it worked out, Iam not sure what your setup is like so it is hard to give advice..but usually I do not let them hatch babies on the floor of the loft.. if this is on the earth ground I would not let her hatch this time around.. I would try to set them up in a proper nest box first. you can use fake eggs when not wanting them to hatch their eggs.


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