# indian fantail - beware of certian problems



## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

I use indian fantails as pumpers and decided to have a round of indian fantails. So now I have 30 or so fantails that are about 2 to 3 months old.

As we all know they are horrible flyers and sometimes when i walk into my loft they fly and knock into the wall. The worst part is that then they fall back and struggle on the floor like if the neck had twisted.

I dont know if anybody else have experienced this but i see this every day in my loft.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Doesn't sound right to me*



warriec said:


> I use indian fantails as pumpers and decided to have a round of indian fantails. So now I have 30 or so fantails that are about 2 to 3 months old.
> 
> As we all know they are horrible flyers and sometimes when i walk into my loft they fly and knock into the wall. The worst part is that then they fall back and struggle on the floor like if the neck had twisted.
> 
> I dont know if anybody else have experienced this but i see this every day in my loft.


Maybe you have something else going on or some bad bloodline of birds. Indian fans are usually very good fliers considering the size of their tails. They should certainly not be banging into walls and should be able to fly a fair distance and land where they want with no problems at all.

Bill


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

jbangelfish said:


> Maybe you have something else going on or some bad bloodline of birds. Indian fans are usually very good fliers considering the size of their tails. They should certainly not be banging into walls and should be able to fly a fair distance and land where they want with no problems at all.
> 
> Bill


I have American Fantails and I have noticed that the ones that are not proportioned correctly (tails not full and straight up) are rather clumsy!!!


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## ezemaxima (Jan 12, 2008)

Maybe your loft is over crowded?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

warriec said:


> I use indian fantails as pumpers and decided to have a round of indian fantails. So now I have 30 or so fantails that are about 2 to 3 months old.
> 
> As we all know they are horrible flyers and sometimes when i walk into my loft they fly and knock into the wall. The worst part is that then they fall back and struggle on the floor like if the neck had twisted.
> 
> I dont know if anybody else have experienced this but i see this every day in my loft.


I know someone who was a breeder, and I noticed all the nest boxes were on the ground or close to the ground, and were very large. It's a whole different breeding set up. I have hesitated to get any because they do have different needs that I cannot accomodate at this time. 

Perhaps you need to redesign their loft. Also, I would still check them and make sure they are in tip top condition.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

jbangelfish said:


> *Indian fans are usually very good fliers considering the size of their tails*. They should certainly not be banging into walls and should be able to fly a fair distance and land where they want with no problems at all.
> 
> Bill


Perhaps because of his size, not just his tail, but his enitre body is BIG, our Beautiful isn't a good flier. 

When he would try to get from one side of the aviary to the other, he often found himself on the floor. 
Sometimes it took a few attempts for him to get off the ground.
Compared to the other birds, he sounds like a Concorde taking off. 

Cindy


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

AZWhitefeather said:


> Perhaps because of his size, not just his tail, but his enitre body is BIG, our Beautiful isn't a good flier.
> 
> When he would try to get from one side of the aviary to the other, he often found himself on the floor.
> Sometimes it took a few attempts for him to get off the ground.
> ...


I have been told that they spend most of thier time on the loft floor and are poor flyers, and they would not last long out side of loft if you have hawks, dog or cats.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

spirit wings said:


> *I have been told that they spend most of thier time on the loft floor* and are poor flyers, and they would not last long out side of loft if you have hawks, dog or cats.


I don't think Beautiful perferred being on the floor. It just happened he landed there without intention. 

Cindy


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

AZWhitefeather said:


> I don't think Beautiful perferred being on the floor. It just happened he landed there without intention.
> 
> Cindy


the lady that told me that may have had the heavy type as some are kind of "husky" so to speak. she said hers spent most of the time on the floor pecking around and did not fly well. this one may get scared and not have enough room to practice to fly good? she also said they do fine in a large cage as they do not fly around alot. I'am sure there is some fantail people will chime in soon. hope this helps a bit anyway.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Fans are all alittle clumsy*



Msfreebird said:


> I have American Fantails and I have noticed that the ones that are not proportioned correctly (tails not full and straight up) are rather clumsy!!!


Compared to other pigeons with normal tails, it just stands to reason that they would be. They will spend alot of time on the ground but then most pigeons actually spend alot of time on the ground. Fantails probably more so.

Birds with forward facing tails that split over their heads would be considered culls and really should not be bred from. It is an undesirable trait and makes them clumsier than they already were.

Bill


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*They are definately easy prey*



spirit wings said:


> I have been told that they spend most of thier time on the loft floor and are poor flyers, and they would not last long out side of loft if you have hawks, dog or cats.


Fantails do not fly well but the Indian Fans are better than our US or show fans. None of them stand a chance against any kind of predator and are not very well suited to flying loose.

Bill


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Compared to other pigeons no fan is a good flier*



AZWhitefeather said:


> Perhaps because of his size, not just his tail, but his enitre body is BIG, our Beautiful isn't a good flier.
> 
> When he would try to get from one side of the aviary to the other, he often found himself on the floor.
> Sometimes it took a few attempts for him to get off the ground.
> ...


But Indian Fans should be far better than American Show Fans. I've never seen one that I would call big or large but they do have more to get into motion than most pigeons and will be noisier and clumsier than most. 

Indian Fantails should be well proportioned birds with large tails and have good control of themselves on the ground or in brief flight. If they don't, I would check their wings to be sure that they have all of their flights, none are broken or missing (this can make for a very noisy flight). If the wings are fully intact, I'd look to their body type and how they are able to carry themselves to see if they have a problem with their genetics.

Bill


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

spirit wings said:


> *the lady that told me that may have had the heavy type as some are kind of "husky" so to speak.*


I'm certainly no expert on any type of fantail, but I do think Beautiful is 'husky'.



jbangelfish said:


> *I've never seen one that I would call big or large* but they do have more to get into motion than most pigeons and will be noisier and clumsier than most.
> 
> Bill


Here's a picture of our Beautiful.









Here's a good comparison. He's visiting with Rae Charles


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## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

I think Beautiful is a very nicely proportioned fan tail. He isn't warped, mutated or tilted in strange directions. If I had a fantail I would want one like him.

And he's not husky just big boned.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

AZWhitefeather said:


> I'm certainly no expert on any type of fantail, but I do think Beautiful is 'husky'.
> 
> 
> Here's a picture of our Beautiful.
> ...


I think Beautiful is, well,.....Beautiful!


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

philodice said:


> I think Beautiful is a very nicely proportioned fan tail.
> *He isn't warped, mutated or tilted in strange directions*.
> 
> If I had a fantail I would want one like him.
> ...


I never thought of him as being distored in any fashion, just big. 

Charis,
You owned Beautiful for a time. What's your take on his size?

Cindy


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*He does look larger than some*



philodice said:


> I think Beautiful is a very nicely proportioned fan tail. He isn't warped, mutated or tilted in strange directions. If I had a fantail I would want one like him.
> 
> And he's not husky just big boned.


It's hard to tell for sure in photos but he may be a crossbred bird. His tail looks thin (should have more feathers) and his feather legs look extra heavy. It is possible that he has some genes from a larger breed of pigeon, making him sort of a unique bird. I can't say that he is for sure but he could be. I have noticed that the leg feathers are getting heavier on Indian Fans in recent years.

On appearance, he looks as if he would be able to fly fairly well. Are his wings full?

Bill


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

AZWhitefeather said:


> I never thought of him as being distored in any fashion, just big.
> 
> Charis,
> You owned Beautiful for a time. What's your take on his size?
> ...


Beautiful is not distorted but he is HUGE. He is the biggest Fantail I have ever seen and he certainly is beautiful.
I have never known a Fantail that can fly very well.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

jbangelfish said:


> *It's hard to tell for sure in photos but he may be a crossbred bird.*
> 
> His tail looks thin (should have more feathers) and his feather legs look extra heavy.
> 
> ...


* I don't know Bill. We adopted him from Charis, who, I believe, received him as a rescue. No bands. 

** He really doesn't fly well. He can get from point A to point B, as long as it's a short distance. 
Yes, his wings are full.

Cindy


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

You know Cindy, we can tell them he is big, huge but none of those words adequately describe how big he really is. I don't think he's a cross and I've seen him.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Chalk him up as unique*



AZWhitefeather said:


> * I don't know Bill. We adopted him from Charis, who, I believe, received him as a rescue. No bands.
> 
> ** He really doesn't fly well. He can get from point A to point B, as long as it's a short distance.
> Yes, his wings are full.
> ...


I don't consider any fans to be good fliers, just that most Indian fans should do OK. As I said somewhere, none are really suited to flying loose as they would all be open invitations to any predator.

Bill


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## KIPPY (Dec 18, 2003)

> Compared to the other birds, he sounds like a Concorde taking off.


the landing is startling. 

Beautiful, is definately Beautiful.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

jbangelfish said:


> I don't consider any fans to be good fliers, just that most Indian fans should do OK. As I said somewhere, none are really suited to flying loose as they would all be open invitations to any predator.
> 
> Bill


Recently, 50 Fantails were dumped in Mt Hood Nation forest. All perished but 10-12 birds. A forest ranger found them on the ground huddled together in the snow, their dead companions were around them. I personally had the opportunity to see the survivors after the rescue and I can assure you that they were not good fliers. The lovely Fantail, Miss Coo-Coo, my education bird could get off the ground but only barely.


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## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

Beautiful is a cross bred, you can tell from the size, tail and head.

If a breeder bred to the standard he is going to breed something that beautiful isnt. Lots of people stick to the standard regardless it been good or not. Someone said that fans tails do best in cages that is not too tall (around 18" is good).


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

warriec said:


> * *Beautiful is a cross bred,* you can tell from the size, tail and head.
> 
> If a breeder bred to the standard he is going to breed something that beautiful isnt. Lots of people stick to the standard regardless it been good or not.
> 
> ** *Someone said that fans tails do best in cages that is not too tall (around 18" is good).*


* Those who are familiar with the breed can agree or disagree with that, as I don't have a clue. 
I *do know* that Beautiful is precious to us just the way he is.  
If someone did discard him, because they felt he wasn't perfect, it's their loss & our gain. 

** We have moved Beautiful into his own 'condo'. He lives in spacious & very nice 'large' rabbit hutch & seems to be as happy as a clam.  

Cindy


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

No fantails can not fly,like homers or other flying type birds. BUT they can fly and the more they fly the more funnel shape the tail gets. The fantail today is not desighned to be a flying type bird. BUT rather a ground bird that take small short flight. BUt if your birds are going wild when you enter your loft. I would say perhaps you need to spend more time with them. handle them more and do not over crowd them ,Not saying they are over crowded. Todays time fans have a much largertail. Indian fans have gotten bigger and have about the largest tail compared to other fantail breeds.


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## Guest (Apr 26, 2008)

I myself have both types of fantails and they get around very well and can fly short distances without a problem. I do agree that the tail on beautiful isnt as full as a normal indian fantail so maybe hes a cross or just one thats in his own class  my american fantials fly much better the the indians and even have their nest up high, the other do preferr to stay on the ground most the time and take the lower levels to lay their eggs..all that said my fantails are the calmest birds that I have an never fly into the walls, as a matter of fact they dont mind me being in there with them at all


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## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

Sorry if I offened anyone but try selling a pigeon not upto mark or standard and you will understand what I mean.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Yup, don't worry about it*



warriec said:


> Sorry if I offened anyone but try selling a pigeon not upto mark or standard and you will understand what I mean.


They like the bird, they're not trying to sell it so crossbred or not makes no difference.

Bill


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

jbangelfish said:


> Compared to other pigeons with normal tails, it just stands to reason that they would be. They will spend alot of time on the ground but then most pigeons actually spend alot of time on the ground. Fantails probably more so.
> 
> *Birds with forward facing tails that split over their heads would be considered culls and really should not be bred from. It is an undesirable trait and makes them clumsier than they already were.*
> 
> Bill


I have one little hen that has a terribly placed tail and she has a problem getting out of her own way, never mind flying! (no she will not be bred)








I keep my fantails in a large "rabbit hutch" type loft. 4x6x5'high flight area with attached hutches. I have 2 with 8 birds in one and 5 in the other. They do spend most of their time on the bottom. I don't know if this is a breed trait but I have noticed that the cocks keep the hens on the bottom. The cocks don't have a problem flying up to the perches but they won't let the hens perch up on the branches. Its kinda like they want to "keep them in their place"! Maybe thats why my hens don't fly as well - they don't get much practice. They (hens) will run around on the bottom flapping their wings though - they look rather amusing. I just started adding on to give them more room - to run and flap their wings


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

warriec said:


> **Sorry if I offened anyone*
> 
> ** *but try selling a pigeon not upto mark or standard and you will understand what I mean.*


*You didn't offend me in the least.  
I was just curious as to what others thought about Beautiful's size. 

** I won't need to worry about that as I don't buy, sell or trade birds. 
My pigeons are rescued, non-releasables & their offspring. And they're here to stay.  

Cindy


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

AZWhitefeather said:


> *You didn't offend me in the least.
> I was just curious as to what others thought about Beautiful's size.
> 
> ** I won't need to worry about that as I don't buy, sell or trade birds.
> ...


I think "Beautiful" is beautiful.
I feel the same way, I don't sell my birds. They are my pets for my enjoyment. ALL are welcome.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Saddles, very pretty*



Msfreebird said:


> I have one little hen that has a terribly placed tail and she has a problem getting out of her own way, never mind flying! (no she will not be bred)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I had several types of fantails many years ago, including Amercan Show type, Indian and Syrians. The Syrians are actually a flying tumbler and fly very well but their tail is just an enlarged and slightly rounded one that doesn't get up in their way at all.

My last of the American Show types were from a guy who showed them and while they were very beautiful birds, their flying abilities were the worst of any fantails that I ever had and their heads were hidden behind their chests, normally in some state of tremor. I decided that I didn't care to breed them anymore because of their over develpement to show standards. 

The breeder, an old friend of mine, showed me how to lace the tail by reversing the natural lay of feathers in their tails. I thought this was quite a pain in the rear but shows what show people are willing to do. They also have more tail feathers than ever, If I remember right, the number was 200 retrices or more. A normal pigeon has somewhere around 20 but I don't remember the normal number exactly, it might be 19 as there is usually an odd number. There is a middle one which is alittle different and the rest are in even pairs.

Anyway, most types of fantails are on the ground more than other pigeons. If they are allowed to fly, they will get better at it but none could ever be called good fliers that could keep up with any normal type bird. As far as hens on the floor, it is possible that they would spend more time up if you had more room. I don't know how much space you give them but most pigeons prefer the security of a high roost and they will fight for them with the cocks normally winning out over any hens. As long as they are safe, it's really all that matters.

Bill


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## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

Msfreebird said:


> I don't know if this is a breed trait but I have noticed that the cocks keep the hens on the bottom. The cocks don't have a problem flying up to the perches but they won't let the hens perch up on the branches. Its kinda like they want to "keep them in their place"! Maybe thats why my hens don't fly as well - they don't get much practice. They (hens) will run around on the bottom flapping their wings though - they look rather amusing. I just started adding on to give them more room - to run and flap their wings


I never thought about it before you mentioned this, but my fantail cocks can manage to roost in the high places, but my hen never does. She keeps to the floor and the lower perches. 

I'm by no means a fantail expert, but I have noticed that my fantails are the calmest and most easily handled of all my pigeons. However, the one who looks most like the "American" fantail is sometimes very clumsy when he gets excited. He pulls his head back behind his chest and wobbles his neck sometimes - I just don't think he can see where he's going when he makes that stance. He has never crashed into walls, but sometimes looks as if he might stumble into one while strutting around like that


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

amoonswirl said:


> I never thought about it before you mentioned this, but my fantail cocks can manage to roost in the high places, but my hen never does. She keeps to the floor and the lower perches.
> 
> I'm by no means a fantail expert, but I have noticed that my fantails are the calmest and most easily handled of all my pigeons. However, the one who looks most like the "American" fantail is sometimes very clumsy when he gets excited. He pulls his head back behind his chest and wobbles his neck sometimes - I just don't think he can see where he's going when he makes that stance. He has never crashed into walls, but sometimes looks as if he might stumble into one while strutting around like that


My little (and I mean little!) hen with the bad tail set is like that. Her tail lays on her back and on top of her head which gives her the appearance of being completely ROUND! So when she does stick her chest out (more) and lays her head back she can't see where she's going at all! She's about the size of a soft ball and looks like one with feathers - but she's adorable! She's the only one with that problem.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

jbangelfish said:


> I had several types of fantails many years ago, including Amercan Show type, Indian and Syrians. The Syrians are actually a flying tumbler and fly very well but their tail is just an enlarged and slightly rounded one that doesn't get up in their way at all.
> 
> My last of the American Show types were from a guy who showed them and while they were very beautiful birds, their flying abilities were the worst of any fantails that I ever had and their heads were hidden behind their chests, normally in some state of tremor. I decided that I didn't care to breed them anymore because of their over develpement to show standards.
> 
> ...


I had them in a larger enclosure but they made me nervous with their landings, so I made this cage especially for the fantails. They seem more comfortable and safe. It is up off the ground on legs (inside my fenced area) so that my dogs can "patrol" the whole area and keep out the intruders.








This was just after bath time.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Msfreebird said:


> My little (and I mean little!) hen with the bad tail set is like that. Her tail lays on her back and on top of her head which gives her the appearance of being completely ROUND! So when she does stick her chest out (more) and lays her head back she can't see where she's going at all! She's about the size of a soft ball and looks like one with feathers - but she's adorable! She's the only one with that problem.


Trim her tail take the outside tail feathers say 6 one each side cut them to about 1 unche long eah. She should be able to hlod the tail up then. Until she moults this fall. Also it might help strenghen the tail


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

re lee said:


> Trim her tail take the outside tail feathers say 6 one each side cut them to about 1 unche long eah. She should be able to hlod the tail up then. Until she moults this fall. Also it might help strenghen the tail


Ok, I'll do that tomorrow! I didn't realize that would help. That should stop her wings from getting hung up in her tail!! Thanks


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## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

Did you know its a law in Sri Lanka that you cant trim/cut/ikle pigeon feathers.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

warriec said:


> Did you know its a law in Sri Lanka that you cant trim/cut/ikle pigeon feathers.


Why would that be a law. Unless it was being done to wild pigeons.


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## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

I am serious, you also can't transport pigeons and there is a regualtion how they can be kept at home. I am fine coz they are inside our boundry walls but if the loft was facing a road then its a issue.

Silly rules enforced few months back.


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## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

They also confisticated many pigeons and held them at the local police stations and starved them for a day and released them - duh, obviously they went back home


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