# Found a feral, doesn't fly



## golab (Jan 2, 2006)

Hi everyone, I just found a feral pigeon that doesn't fly. There seems to be nothing wrong with his wings, so I'm assuming he must be sick. He was kind of fluffed up with eyes half-closed and didn't put up too much of a struggle when I was catching him and he sort of drags his tail on the ground when walking. Right now he doesn't seem to be interested in food or water, although I think he was eating when I fed my feral flock outside. I've been reading this forum for the last couple of months, so I know I should probably check his mouth for signs of canker. My question is: how do I do that without stressing him too much? Is there a special technique you could recommend? Thanks.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

You can do a loose wrap of a hand towel folded lengthwise around the 'shoulders' of the pij to stabilize the wings and minimize fidgeting. With the left hand reach over the head to grasp the beak and w/the right hand push up on the tip of the top beak until upper and lower mandible are separated for a look.

You might also want to check the resource section for tips on helping a sick bird. Placing the bird in a dark, quiet place in the house on a heating pad set to low is the recommendation along w/administering International Rehydrating Solution which is made from water sugar and salt. You can drip this onto the beak on the top or side, allowing the bird to swallow on its own. Others will be along to offer more advice. Thanks for helping this sick pij, and welcome to Pigeon Talk!

fp


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## golab (Jan 2, 2006)

Thanks fp, I checked his mouth and didn't see any yellow growths in there. Poops are semi-liquid, mostly green with some white in the middle and a clear liquid surround. He looks a little better now - started preening himself and ate some seeds. I didn't see him drink any water though.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Here's a link to one of the stickies in the resource section:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=8822

It's hard to know what trouble a feral has gotten into when we find them grounded. If you can keep the pij for a couple of days and observe, it would be good. If the bird continues to appear not to be drinking, you may need to hydrate as mentioned before. How is the keel, is it sharp feeling?

fp


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

It's also possible that it's coccidiosis. You really can't tell just by looking at poop. If that's the case then you're going to need a differnent medication than the ones for canker. If there's a pet or feed store in your area, you might be able to get "SulMet" which may help. It's pretty cheap but it's always a big bottle.

Pidgey


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## golab (Jan 2, 2006)

Hi fp, he just drank some water, so hopefully he'll be drinking on his own now. The keel seems OK. We'll see how he's doing tomorrow. I put him in a box for the night, it's 5:30 PM over here. Of course I'll keep him for as long as it takes. I would never release him if I he wasn't fully recovered.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Golab, just checked the international resource section for Poland and don't see any listing there. Are there places locally where you can obtain medications if needed?

fp


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## golab (Jan 2, 2006)

Hi fp, I can probably get some meds for coccidiosis tomorrow. Would you also recommend treating him for canker, even though I couldn't see anything unusual in his mouth?


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Are you looking at completely pink tissue inside, or do you see streaking? 

Many of us keep some meds on hand for the usual problems like coccidiosis, trichomoniasis, worms, etc. Hate to see you go on a shopping spree, tho. But sounds like you are feeding the ferals regularly, and spring is on the way....

fp


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## golab (Jan 2, 2006)

I didn't see any streaks, but I'll take another look tomorrow. So, if don't find anything, should I start him on coccidiosis meds? Or could this be something else? I'm kind of hesitant to take him to a vet, because when they see a feral pigeon, the just want to euthanize


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Thank you for helping this needy pigeon.

Not knowing what your dealing with makes it hard to treat.

Since he is drinking now, you can administer some organic apple cider vinegar. A tablespoon of that to a gallon water will help generate a good acidity in the crop to reduce common bacteria like cocci and canker. Also, if you can get some human grade probiotics to put in his water or a cap down the throat that will also generate some needy good gut bacteria and help solidify the poop.


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## golab (Jan 2, 2006)

Thanks Treesa, I'll get some apple cider vinegar and probiotic tomorrow morning. So you don't recommend putting him on any meds for the time being?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

golab said:


> Thanks Treesa, I'll get some apple cider vinegar and probiotic tomorrow morning. So you don't recommend putting him on any meds for the time being?


I'm just saying these things will be beneficial for the bird no matter what is diagnosed and used for treatment.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Since you don't know what you're treating for, I wouldn't put him on meds.
One thing I would recommend, cause it won't go away with ACV or garlic and that is worms. I haven't seen too many ferals not having worms and it is a common cause they are grounded. If you can get Ivermectin from a vet, one dose is enough, I would use it. Other than that do what the other members suggested and I hope you little feral will be fine.

Reti


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## golab (Jan 2, 2006)

Thanks Reti, I'll get some Ivermectin and we'll go from there.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Golab, 

If you do get the Ivermectin, you need to use it a few times, once every two weeks. This is so that you get all the worms, ivomec will only kill the adult worms, not the eggs. Therefore, it should be given every two weeks, three times. This will ensure that any eggs inside developing and getting ready to hatch, will be killed as well when they do.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Oh Brad, I had no idea it had to be given several times. My vet never mentioned that.
Thanks for the info.

Reti


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## golab (Jan 2, 2006)

Hi guys, I was able to check his throat again this morning, my friend held him, so I could use a flashlight for a better look. There's some yellow stuff deep inside the throat, so I'm gonna try and get some canker meds. Should I also treat him for worms at the same time?


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

golab said:


> Hi guys, I was able to check his throat again this morning, my friend held him, so I could use a flashlight for a better look. There's some yellow stuff deep inside the throat, so I'm gonna try and get some canker meds. Should I also treat him for worms at the same time?



I definately would, if not right away after a few days. As I mentioned, ferals usually do have worms. I deworm all birds I get.

Reti


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## golab (Jan 2, 2006)

Thanks Reti, one more question. He's not eating much, should I start hand-feeding him?


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Yes, if he has canker and it sounds like he does, he might not be able to eat on his own due to the blockage cause by the canker. You can hand feed him formula with a syringe or eye dropper.
Also sick birds tend not to eat much, but they do need all the nutrition they can get.

Reti


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hi Golab, Can't add anything to the good advice already given but want you to know how much I like your avatar. Also, heard on our news this am that swans have been found with bird flu in Poland. Hope it doesn't cause too many problems for your country.

And, welcome to the forum.  

Maggie


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Golab,

If you end up syringing formula, be careful not to get any into the first hole directly behind the tongue, this leads to the air sacs and could cause complications for the bird. If uncomfortable syringing in general into and down the throat, all the way in the back, you can thaw some frozen peas or corn and gently push to the back of the throat allowing the bird to swallow it on its own. 
Another feeding method for sick pigeons. Or, you could soak cat or puppy chow and do the same in small pieces. If you can get Metronidazole (Flagyl), available at least here in pet stores that carry aquarium supplies(called Fishzole there), you can treat for canker with this. Just let folks know what strength you have acquired it in. We can help you with the dosage rate.

fp


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Regarding the Ivomec,

I was told by my vet that two treatments at the minimum were necessary to eliminate worms, with a separation of 10 days between treatments and this should ensure worm recovery for the bird. Single treatments are good but not certain to eliminate the pests.

Golab, if you do go to hand feeding, you will want baby bird formula or even regular human baby food to crop-feed with. Pureed peas and corn, even sweet potatoes in those little baby food jars are excellent and were recommended by my vet although they don't have vitamins and minerals added that are dosed for birds. Crop feeding is no where near as hard as it sounds. You do have to be very carefull about where you insert the tube for feeding though so that you don't aspirate your bird. But if you use a bright light to help you see what you are doing you will not miss when slipping the tube into the throat. 

You will need a syringe of at least 10mls with a plastic tube attached to the tip for insertion into the throat. Try and get a thin plastic tube, about two inches long that will fit over the end of the syringe. After cutting the tubing you can use a lighter or candle to just very slightly heat the end of the tube as this will melt any sharp edges that could be too sharp for crop feeding. You don't want to cause cuts or abrasions or cause scarring through the feeds.

I dip my tubes into a little oil first before inserting. Birds that are not eating are also sometimes not drinking so the throat will not be properly lubricated. Please oil the tube each time. I find a tube feed takes only two or three minutes after practice. Use a long scarf to restrain wings and feet if you have one handy. It is easier to wrap the bird this way than using pillow cases or towells. A lot easier I might add. I prefer it over every other thing I have tried so far.

Once you are ready then just gently slide the tube down the back of the throat until only about a quarter of the tube is still visible to you. Don't force it if it doesn't just slide right in. You are now in the crop. Also don't force any liquids too quickly. The trick is to just gradually and gently fill the crop so that liquids don't get forced back up the throat as the bird will be constricting muscles and resisting. There is a risk of aspirating your bird if this happens. If you see some of the tube fed liquids appear in the mouth then stop immediately and withdraw the tube. I hope all this is of help to you.

If you instead decide to pop seeds or peas and corn I have to suggest that you not consider using peanuts as I now know that these often contain aspergillus and can be a hazard to a sick bird. Plus they are difficult for the digestion process due to their very high fat levels. This also becomes a concern if your bird is not consuming any grit. Which is another reason why formula and baby food is the way to go for a bird not eating on it's own. Digestion is easier. Just get ready for the splash-down poops that are bound to follow. I get one on my knee at the end of every single feeding.

I am wise to it now though and prepare.

The splash down never comes until after you remove the scarf so you just take the scarf off your bird over a surface you can clean easily. And then head for the paper towel. I buy them in bulk now. Life is rough sometimes eh. 

Cameron


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Just one or two more thoughts Golab, 

When feeding, keep in mind that your bird will need about 5% of body weight daily in formula to maintain herself. For a typical bird ranging from 325 to 400 grams this would mean feedings amounting to between 60 and 75 mls per day(in total). I would do three feedings a day initially of 20 to 25 mls each as the liquids pass very quickly through a birds system. The other benefit is that you won't be at risk of overfeeding a crop that has shrunken from lack of food. I know others will say to feed up to 30 and 35 mls per session twice a day but I like to err on the side of caution myself. Also you will want to separate feedings by 3 and a half to four hours at the minimum.

Last, avoid feeding any air into the the crop through the syringe. It will make your bird uncomfortable and gassy. If you see air bubbles just tap on the syringe till they rise to the top, evacuate them and refill the tube with formula.

All the best to you,

Cameron


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## golab (Jan 2, 2006)

Hi guys, I appreciate all the excellent advice I received from everybody. Special thanks to Cameron for explaining the hand-feeding technique. My feral seems to be doing better, he's a little more active than he was when I found him. I went to the vet today and got some meds for canker and worms. The vet didn't give me Ivermectin, but some kind of tablets instead. I'm supposed to give the pigeon 1 tablet and three weeks later another one, so I guess he'll be staying with me for the time being. 
Maggie, glad you like my avatar, I love yours too, that's a gorgeous pigeon. I'm worried about bird flu, not because I'm afraid of catching it, but because I keep thinking about all those birds that are gonna die or be destroyed. The media are in a frenzy trying to come up with scary stories and some people panic and think they're gonna get sick if a bird flies over their head or something. I was afraid people may stop feeding birds this winter. Luckily, most folks use common sense and continue providing food for birds, which is especially important, as we had a pretty harsh winter this year.
Thanks once again guys and I'll keep you updated about my pigeon.


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## golab (Jan 2, 2006)

Just an update: I started my feral pigeon on the canker meds and he's also been de-wormed. He's eating more on his own now, so I guess I won't have to hand feed him anymore. He's also trying to fly around the room a little, although he still can't too high up.


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## golab (Jan 2, 2006)

*Update about my pigeon*

Hi everyone, my pigeon seems to be doing a lot better  He's eating and pooping very nicely and also tries to fly around the room a little. However, I still have one concern: when eating seeds, he shakes his head a lot - could this be early stages of PMV? I haven't noticed anyhing unusual when he walks though - no walking in circles or anything. 
Anyway, I plan on keeping him for a while, because I want to be 100% sure he's well enough to be released.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thank you for the update.
You did a great job with this guy.
The head shaking when eating could be early PMV, or a lighter form of it, but since he had/has canker I am more inclined to think he might have some obstruction in his throat from the canker.
Are you still giving him the canker meds? What medicine are you giving him?
I am asking because some cankers are resistant to certain drugs. Maybe you could switch to another medicine or have the vet take a look at your bird.
Also thrush/Candida is another thing to consider.

Reti


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## golab (Jan 2, 2006)

Hi Reti, it was Metronidazole and I was giving it to him for a week in drinking water. He just finished it, but I'll definitely have my vet take a look at him. Thanks and best of luck with ******* 2!


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thank you. ******* 2 is doing pretty good today.

Metro in the water doesn't work as well as the tablets or liquid, so definately have a recheck on pij, he might have some canker left that bothers him when swallowing.


Reti


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Reti said:


> The head shaking when eating could be early PMV, or a lighter form of it, but since he had/has canker I am more inclined to think he might have some obstruction in his throat from the canker.
> 
> Also thrush/Candida is another thing to consider.
> 
> Reti


Hi Golab, 

I am inclined to agree with Reti about the head shaking. It strikes me that your bird is still having some trouble swallowing due to the Canker. Reti also mentioned Candida and crop-yeasts came to mind. If you were crop feeding with formula this is a distinct possibility. Check the bag of formula you are using for ingredients. Mine is made up of ground corn, wheat, rice and soy meal.

Yeasts need sugars to thrive and unfortunately formula provides the perfect feast for hungry yeast in the form of readily available and digestible grain sugars. If Candida was already present your bird might experience a bloom of yeast problems as a result of using formula. ACV and probiotics on an ongoing basis can reduce this problem but if you have a serious condition you will probably have to go with Nystatin. Just a thought, keep us posted.

Cameron


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## golab (Jan 2, 2006)

*Official diagnosis: it's PMV*

Hi again everyone. Well, I took my pigeon to an avian vet and it's definitely PMV. The bird's not doing too bad, though. I can only notice the shaking of the head when he's pecking at seeds. Otherwise he seems OK - eating, drinking and pooping. The vet said it's gonna be up to a year before he can be released and he may never be releaseable. So, it looks like I have a pet pigeon  I'm going cage shopping tomorrow.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Golab,

That's a cute pij you have there, and must say, a very lucky one to have found you. I am wondering if the avian vet also checked on the canker as well to make sure that it was sufficiently 'knocked down'? If you check out the resource section in the main menu here, you'll find stickies on PMV from our members who've had experience in rescuing birds w/the virus. As well, using the search tool above, and typing in PMV should also give you some good reading. At this point, w/the official diagnosis, supportive care is a main concern along with keeping an eye out for secondary infections. Since you know now for sure that the bird has had and been treated for canker, it might be good to check inside the mouth every few weeks to make sure that all is well.

Thanks again for giving this pij a home, sounds like he/she is doing well, all things considered. Hopefully, some of our PMV experienced members will check in and offer their thoughts.

fp


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi golab!

Bless you for taking in this pigeon and giving it a loving home! What a smart little bird to have found you!

Please check out our PMV thread if you haven't done so, it has some great supportive care help. Hopefully Cynthia, our PMV expert will be along.

I'm curious, how did the doctor confirm the pigeon has PMV, and did he diagnose any secondary infections?


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## golab (Jan 2, 2006)

Hi guys, the vet checked the mouth for canker and he couldn't find anything. The PMV diagnosis was based on the symptoms I told the vet about, as well as as the symptoms the vet noticed. The pigeon was shaking a bit when we got to the vet's office, I guess he (I think it's a male because of its size, but I could be wrong) was stressed out a little from the car trip. Poops look great, so I guess that's why the vet thinks there are no other problems. The pigeon gets ACV and probiotic in water. I also started giving that stuff to the feral flock outside.  

The vet also recommennded I keep him in a cage for the time being. He's free flying around a room now, but the vet said the PMV symptoms could get worse before they get better, so keeping the bird caged would keep him from hurting himself when trying to fly etc. The pigeon will probably hate me when I put him in a cage  

I'll also keep checking for signs of canker periodically.

Thanks for all your help and I'll keep you updated


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

golab said:


> Hi guys, the vet checked the mouth for canker and he couldn't find anything. The PMV diagnosis was based on the symptoms I told the vet about, as well as as the symptoms the vet noticed. The pigeon was shaking a bit when we got to the vet's office, I guess he (I think it's a male because of its size, but I could be wrong) was stressed out a little from the car trip. Poops look great, so I guess that's why the vet thinks there are no other problems. The pigeon gets ACV and probiotic in water. I also started giving that stuff to the feral flock outside.
> 
> The vet also recommennded I keep him in a cage for the time being. He's free flying around a room now, but the vet said the PMV symptoms could get worse before they get better, so keeping the bird caged would keep him from hurting himself when trying to fly etc. The pigeon will probably hate me when I put him in a cage
> 
> ...



Still, check w/Cynthia's thread on PMV in the resource section. 
Have you seen the bird do any star gazing?

There are different presentations of canker, and sometimes it can not be seen just by visual inspection of the mouth, it is further down, or in a different area. They will also shake their heads w/canker. And, a pij could shake (generalized trembles) that might not be PMV. I'll email this link to Cynthia.

fp


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## golab (Jan 2, 2006)

Hi fp, I've read Cynthia's thread and I'll do everything to make this pigeon as comfortable as possible. He does twist his head sideways a little. I guess you could call that "stargazing", but it's not too severe. Hopefully, it won't get any worse. I just ordered a cage and I'll post some pics when it arrives.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I hope too he will not get any worse.
Even if he does, it will be only temporary. Supportive care and good nutrition is very important in PMV birds and also as little stress as possible.

Reti


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## golab (Jan 2, 2006)

*Update*

Hello everyone, just a quick update on my pigeon. He seems to be doing just fine. He still has the PMV symptoms but at least they aren't getting any worse. He's eating a lot and started cooing several days ago.  Here's a picture of him in his cage.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hi Golab, what a great job you've done. He looks marvelous. Great looking poop too!


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## golab (Jan 2, 2006)

Thanks Maggie  I forgot to mention that he also loves to wing-slap me whenever I put my hand in his cage.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Good going, Golab! I'm glad things are going so well .. very nice looking pijjie!

Terry


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Thanks for the update,Golab.

The bird has such a sweet looking face, hard to believe he has got one mean  wing slap!


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Good job! And isn't great that we can appreciate good poop in this forum!


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Victor said:


> And isn't great that we can appreciate good poop in this forum!


Yes, it is one of our all time favorite and most talked about subjects. LOL


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Golab, your pij looks great, and glad to hear that he's doing better. The poops are lookin' good, the accomodations look nice and roomy, and I betcha this pij thinks he's found a forever home 

fp


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