# 350 - 400 mile young birds



## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

The club I flew with in Michigan flew races from 100 to 325 miles. I have been breeding my family of birds since 2007 and have produced birds that will fly and win 100 to 300 mile races. My problem is, The Club I am joining on the Treasure Coast of Florida has two 360 mile races and one 400. My birds may fly that but they probably will not win those races.

My question is, Who here on PT thinks they have some of the best birds for those 360 and 400 mile races?

I am hoping to make a deal with a few PT members for some great 350 to 400 mile young birds for next year.

Post here, PM me or call me 863-532-0015

Mark/Ace


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## The_Rookie (Dec 18, 2012)

Man I would like to know too. What kind of birds are you flying now Ace?


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

The_Rookie said:


> Man I would like to know too. What kind of birds are you flying now Ace?


They are with out a doubt my own family of birds now. They have been bred down from my best. SFL, Hillfamilyloft, Top Gun Loft and John Smith's loft. A blend of Janssen, HVR, Houben, Wonder Miller, Ludo and some others in the background as well.


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## BetaPigeon (Mar 17, 2010)

ace in the hole said:


> The club I flew with in Michigan flew races from 100 to 325 miles. I have been breeding my family of birds since 2007 and have produced birds that will fly and win 100 to 300 mile races. My problem is, The Club I am joining on the Treasure Coast of Florida has two 360 mile races and one 400. My birds may fly that but they probably will not win those races.
> 
> My question is, Who here on PT thinks they have some of the best birds for those 360 and 400 mile races?
> 
> ...


Try some Morris Gordons. Mine due better as the distance get further.


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

BetaPigeon said:


> Try some Morris Gordons. Mine due better as the distance get further.


I am not looking for a family of birds. I am looking for 2014 young birds out of proven breeders for that distance.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

Gordon's are a tough family of pigeons , a smaller bird and they love head winds and crappy weather but many believe they are too slow for todays races.

If I had something good to offer you I would trade you even up for the birds I already have in my loft with your band # on them, but unfortunately I don't have any sure things to trade with.


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

ACE......If you don`t breed early(Late Dec/Jan)...Do so...I beleive your birds will do well...
I also beleive the races down your way are fast(1400 and up YPM)....If this is true,your birds will handle the extra miles.....Alamo


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

Alamo said:


> ACE......If you don`t breed early(Late Dec/Jan)...Do so...I beleive your birds will do well...
> I also beleive the races down your way are fast(1400 and up YPM)....If this is true,your birds will handle the extra miles.....Alamo


I do breed early and the first young bird race isn't until late September. Not only have my young flown all across the country they have flown in this club and combine. I know what they can do and the 360 - 400 is not it. The only way they would win these races is if it was a total blow home. I can not count on that for every race so I need another family of birds to handle the longer tough races.

I want to state again that my birds may fly these distances but my goal is to win and not be one who also flew...


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

ERIC K said:


> *Gordon's are a tough family of pigeons , a smaller bird and they love head winds and crappy weather but many believe they are too slow for todays races.*
> If I had something good to offer you I would trade you even up for the birds I already have in my loft with your band # on them, but unfortunately I don't have any sure things to trade with.


So who has some proven Gordon's???


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## logangrmnr (Jul 14, 2010)

Ace, your birds should have no problem flying in the TCPC. The races are fast last 1339 witha SE 5-10 winds. We usually have winds out of the N and are fast. I fly with the SCR club north of you guys and I'm also the treasurer for the Florida East Coast Combine that we all fly. We fly all family of birds in the combine with great success here. So I recommend breed out a team and add some gift birds to your 2014 team. You birds might surprise you. If you only fly young birds then any one can win on any give Sunday.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

ace in the hole said:


> So who has some proven Gordon's???


Butch Smith in East Rockford. A friend of Les's. I've heard he sells birds directly to Taiwan. But I can't say how good or bad they are. There were some in our bond race and they didn't show up that day to win, just clocked.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

If money was no object and I was starting over I would buy birds from the Klaas family. I think the German birds are killing things everywhere. I go for something out of "Konstantin" the South African winner from 2007. There not sprinters and they can fly tough races as young birds out to 350 for sure. I haven't heard what people are doing with as old birds but you could guess they should be good .

Mark your hen flew that 377 mile race which wasn't easy after the week before flying that 290 miles and she really did okay for coming from a family of 300 mile birds.


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## The_Rookie (Dec 18, 2012)

ace in the hole said:


> I do breed early and the first young bird race isn't until late September. Not only have my young flown all across the country they have flown in this club and combine. I know what they can do and the 360 - 400 is not it. The only way they would win these races is if it was a total blow home. I can not count on that for every race so I need another family of birds to handle the longer tough races.
> 
> I want to state again that my birds may fly these distances but my goal is to win and not be one who also flew...


How can I get some of your 2014 young birds?


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

ERIC K said:


> If money was no object and I was starting over I would buy birds from the Klaas family. I think the German birds are killing things everywhere. I go for something out of "Konstantin" the South African winner from 2007. There not sprinters and they can fly tough races as young birds out to 350 for sure. I haven't heard what people are doing with as old birds but you could guess they should be good .
> 
> Mark your hen flew that 377 mile race which wasn't easy after the week before flying that 290 miles and she really did okay for coming from a family of 300 mile birds.


Ken Easley in our ABQ club probably has the best Klass birds in the US. No real test on his birds to 300-400 due to his loft location on the other side of the 12K Sandias. Don't know if he would just send you young birds. For the money he imported the birds for, he is looking to get some of that back. Also he does not consistently beat my birds either. Would have to put them in the same loft to see if they are any better.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

http://nmracingpigeons.homestead.com

Ken's website


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

hillfamilyloft said:


> Ken Easley in our ABQ club probably has the best Klass birds in the US. No real test on his birds to 300-400 due to his loft location on the other side of the 12K Sandias. Don't know if he would just send you young birds. For the money he imported the birds for, he is looking to get some of that back. Also he does not consistently beat my birds either. Would have to put them in the same loft to see if they are any better.


I say the German birds get a better test before they get imported to the US over say the Belgian birds , bigger competition in that country plus the big wins in south Africa , so when I said start with those families I meant as a foundation for your loft not that they would be the end all right from the start but I would bet they could be added to any loft and improve their blood just like you have already done with your family . There is always going to be duds in every family. Meuleman for example had a terrible race record but he had laid the foundation for many lofts when they got hold of his inbred pigeon and crossed then into their own families. I just think that those Klass birds would be something to start with if you had the money to spend on birds. 
I have looked at Kens web site before and I know Rick Nanez who has the same blood lines for sale only lives 40 minutes from me so I could easily get birds there without paying shipping but one must have the dollars first.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

I believe that the bird that won the Heartland federation OLR was from Ken Easley and he was the guy that bought that UNITED 604 bird for $75,000, but that's just a rumor I heard and right now one hears many things you just don't know what to believe anymore. That was a Klaas bird too. Rick Nanez was 3rd in that race same drop as the winner 8 second separated them, NW winds 3 mph, 42 degrees at the release and 35 degrees at the arrival , 351 miles. Bird speed 1218.936 and only 16 day birds.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Ken definitely has a good group of birds.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

hillfamilyloft said:


> Ken definitely has a good group of birds.


Yes apparently so . I will never have birds from him just because of the price and I can only imagine what that is after talking to people like Rick Nanez and Ed Minvielle who have high dollar birds.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

ERIC K said:


> Yes apparently so . I will never have birds from him just because of the price and I can only imagine what that is after talking to people like Rick Nanez and Ed Minvielle who have high dollar birds.


High dollar and fancy paper does not mean they will win in your club. I have found my best birds are coming from strong families of birds from individual fanciers that win races. Not necessarily a mix of high dollar and fancy paper birds. Ace will probably be best to find a guy that always wins the 300-400 races with his young birds and bring in a box of them.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Ken has not had time to really test his imports. I give it a few years and he will have a strong family of those German birds. I think he imported around 30. He will find the best of the bunch and start a consistent family.


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

It took me 5 years to refine my speed birds and develop some good 300 mile birds out of them. That was done without flying myself. Now that I will be flying again I expect to develop a great 350 to 400 mile family of birds in 3 years or so.


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

logangrmnr said:


> Ace, your birds should have no problem flying in the TCPC. The races are fast last 1339 witha SE 5-10 winds. We usually have winds out of the N and are fast. I fly with the SCR club north of you guys and I'm also the treasurer for the Florida East Coast Combine that we all fly. We fly all family of birds in the combine with great success here. So I recommend breed out a team and add some gift birds to your 2014 team. You birds might surprise you. If you only fly young birds then any one can win on any give Sunday.


I already know what my birds will do here. Ben Feuerbach and Ron Lowe have both flown some of my birds. They did well but not at the distance. I am a young bird specialist and I know my birds. They are bred from 90% speed stock and are not bred for these long races. 

It took me three years to breed 300 mile birds out of them by selective breeding. If these 350 & 400 mile races are not blow homes they will not WIN. I truly need another family of birds to cover me for these races.

BTW, I went to basketing last night and met all of the guys from the TCPC.


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## ace in the hole (Nov 27, 2007)

The_Rookie said:


> How can I get some of your 2014 young birds?


I do know my birds have flown well in your area. I will be breeding early and may have some available around March and April.

Touch base with me after the first of the year.


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

Hey Mark was trying to call you this morning to let you know that in the 360 this weekend was only 6 day birds in my club. Mentor had four but wind was in is favor then it sounds like I beat everyone on my side in which our birds had to fly in 10-20 mph head winds.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

http://pigeon_racingsc.tripod.com/frank_m.html

I've been working on the same thing with my daughter of Franks 076 fabry, Next year I should know if I have been going in the right direction. I have 3 cock bird that are PresidentxIkon and 3 hens out of my Fabry, this year I raised 18 and flew them out to 350 miles. Out of the 18 I still have 15, the only problem is that my club didn't fly this year so I hauled them on my own. That is really how I wanted to do it though, I want to test them in a OLR kind of setting. I think it worked real well at the 350 they came in over !700 YPM with cross winds.
Dave


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## warpaint (Dec 10, 2008)

Good birds that can do the jobs at your distance would be, fabrys, vanmoorsels, aristonas, Figos, hofkens. Most of these are middle distance types that can handle the races your looking at. These birds are also very tough endurance birds in my opinion. Joe nemelka uses van moorsels to cross onto his ardens. Horst hackemar and bill traw flies figos. Majority of a good flying blood would be of a cross consisting of a long to middle that has been concentrated into someones own family.


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## dvtlegend (Oct 20, 2007)

If you have good birds up to 300, just cross a good long distance line that has been doing well like the van loons. The guys here do very well with speed crosses onto loons, schellens, and jan arden. That's the combo that the use to fly one loft racing and it has been doing good. I myself fly a lot of ADL blood for middle to long dist birds and would use hofkens and my mr in the money stuff for crossing.


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## The_Rookie (Dec 18, 2012)

ace in the hole said:


> I do know my birds have flown well in your area. I will be breeding early and may have some available around March and April.
> 
> Touch base with me after the first of the year.


Cool Cool. will do.


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## logangrmnr (Jul 14, 2010)

Mark, The guys that flew your birds have birds that will do it. Ben has very good Van Loons and Ron has the M&D Evans Vandenabeeles. You should be able to get some of them at theend of the race season. I fly Soontjen and Drapa birds at all distance. If you talk to Mike from Graves Loft he flies Schellens. There are a lot of good birds to be had down there and if you have questions about the parents or there nestmate records the guys are never you so you can look though there papers. 
Erik


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## Bluebar99 (May 8, 2011)

Hard to best a devriendt janssen


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## dannynova1972 (Oct 20, 2021)

ace in the hole said:


> I do breed early and the first young bird race isn't until late September. Not only have my young flown all across the country they have flown in this club and combine. I know what they can do and the 360 - 400 is not it. The only way they would win these races is if it was a total blow home. I can not count on that for every race so I need another family of birds to handle the longer tough races.
> 
> I want to state again that my birds may fly these distances but my goal is to win and not be one who also flew...


Win is every flyer goal..
But don't think.you understand.
Now in days.
Racing small pigeon..
If it's your thoughts.
That a small racing pigeon can't.
Win 400 mile race.
Then you haven't got.
The right breed.
400miles.it not at all.
Hard for the little bird..
It having that right
Little bird..
That handle.
All kinds of weather..
It's all about stamina...
Don't give up....


BetaPigeon said:


> Try some Morris Gordons. Mine due better as the distance get further.


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