# Weak Pigeon



## PigeonHelper101 (May 24, 2014)

So i bought this female fantail pigeon 1 hour ago from my neighbour for half dollar! i knew this pigeon cuz it used to fly around our home! but some days ago she took flight but didn't returned to her home! i don't know how my neighbour brought it back! it's just too much weak! i had given her some water using syringe and some seeds by opening her mouth ! it's bone i don't know what's it's called but it's visible and she is sleeping all the time i am trying to upload two pics but my network connection is slower than turtle! can anybody tell me what else should i do?


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

I don't know if this is too late. The pigeon needs to be kept warm and given water for the first 24 hrs. No feeding. If things start to look up, we can gradually mix in liquid food and gradually increase the food quantity.
Also, better to use a dropper rather than a syringe. In both cases, release the plunger only way back into the throat, so the bird does not choke. If you can make her drink by herself, that would be best. Never give water to a bird who is unconscious.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*Follow this link asap to try and save its life: http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f108/basic-steps-to-saving-the-life-of-a-pigeon-or-dove-8822.html *


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## PigeonHelper101 (May 24, 2014)

So she is still alive after spending night in my room! and about the heat we have around 45 degree normal temprature so i don't think i should provide her with extra heat! and i actually feed her some seed yesterday but she digested it so no problem here! right now i am feeding a solution of water + honey + salt + sugar is it ok or should i only feed her simple water? and i don't have any dropper and we don't have different types of vitman and soultions avaible at our town!  here are some pics of her!

1 ) Fantail









2) Her bone i was talking about :









3) Her first dropping :


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

Glad to know she is alive. But the third photo doesn't look so good. The poops have no solids in them...there should be some green stuff if the food has got digested. Did she give green poops after you took the photo? 
If she doesn't seem to be pooping, feel her crop for yesterday's undigested food. If it is still present, do not feed anymore. Give plenty of water (with a drop of ACV in it) and wait for the crop to empty.


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## PigeonHelper101 (May 24, 2014)

she poop alot! i don't know about yesterday but today she pooped 9 times! and there is some green stuff in them too! i haven't feed her too much just little to make sure she survives and there is another problem now! i think she have canker! there is a little yellowish thing in her mouth upper side of mouth! it's not too big to block anything but i think maybe that's why she isn't eating anything! and her nose is running too not too much but a little and she is throwing water from her mouth too! so i bought metronidazole and gave her about 5 ml! i hope i am not doing anything wrong! and she is not adult she is about 2 month old! right now she sleeping!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The bird needs food in her. How much seed did you give her? Giving water or meds that way is also dangerous, as you can aspirate her. Can you get the Metro in tablet form? She needs about 50 mg of Metro given once daily, for 10 days. Kinda hard to know how much you are giving her in the water that way. Also, can you feed her peas that have been cooked to soft? Just put them in her beak and push way to the back of her tongue, and let her swallow it. You can start with about 30 peas, then wait for the crop to empty, and feed again. Maybe 3 times daily, if the crop empties. If not, then you need to wait to feed again.


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

Pooping 9 times is too less, a normal pigeon poops around 20 poops in a day. 
In which form is the metronidazole which are you giving her? Is it in syrup form? As mentioned, you need to give her 50 mg once daily, so calculate the ml accordingly. Or you can buy the metronidazole tablet and divide into pieces of the required dosage. Heavy overdosage can cause complications, so make sure you got the dosage right.
There is also a chance that the canker has affected the crop, and is preventing passage of food through the crop. I suggest that you go easy on the feeding part, give her tiny seeds which can easily pass through the crop.. Choose easily digestible seeds.
You need to give the metronidazole for 10 days minimum. Metronidazole can cause vomiting so give it after a feeding.
Make sure she drinks water. You can add a drop of ACV to the water.
Hope she gets well soon.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Hi PigeonHelper101. Welcome to PT.
Thanx for buying her to save her. That's kind.
You need to feed her before giving her metronidazole. Metro is given 20-30 mins after feeding for better results. If she vomitting you can use "perinorm/cadinorm" to stop her if she's throwing up. Give this med before feeding her to stop vomitting.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Regarding supplemental heat....sick birds can't regulate their body temperature. If her feet feel cool or cold, that is an indication she needs supplemental, direct heat. The directions, in the link, Skyeking gave you have helped save many pigeons and other birds. It's standard protocol for all wildlife rehabbers.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If you don't get enough food into her, she will get weaker. Can you post a picture of the droppings?


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## PigeonHelper101 (May 24, 2014)

Flagyl is in liquid form! and it's says on syurp that each 5ml contains: benzoyl metronidazole equivalent tp 200 mg metronidazole B.P! So i think i messed up everything! and what's ACV? she has gained little weight i think! i don't have any weighting machine in my home! her crop isn't empty? i feed her at about 4:00 pm yesterday and right now it's 7:00 am, some water and metronidazole! there is still some remaining! and btw isn't honey mixed in water best thing to feed her right now since she can't digest food and honey is already half digested and we have bottle of honey too! no one use it! here is a video about three mints ago! sorry for noise my phone is from stone age! https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=1389968751291709&l=45133570077754156


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## PigeonHelper101 (May 24, 2014)

her feet are not cold!


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## PigeonHelper101 (May 24, 2014)

Ok so now she can't even sleep right so i put a newspaper under her head like a pillow and she is sleeping on it with left side of her head i hope that's not bad for her! and should i wait for her crop to be empty to feed her or feed her in time intervals! i feed her some solution of water+honey+ pinch of salt and sugar and about 1.3 ml so that's about 50 mg of metronzole and i can't find peas in my town in this season so any other thing i can do! waiting for your answer and i don't want her to die!! i had saved a male fantail before from pmv but my brother gave him to his friend!


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## PigeonHelper101 (May 24, 2014)

She has almost all signs of canker! She is making sudden jerk like something is stuck in her mouth! When she was sleeping water came out from her mouth few hours ago but right now i feed her some water it's not coming out like before and two hours ago when i pressed her crop gently to check water came out without her reacting!


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

It looks you gave a real overdosage...hope nothing happens since it was just for once. You can give just 1 ml of that syrup, after a feeding. 
Wait for the crop to empty fully before the next feed. If canker has affected the crop, it might be obstructing the food passage and hence slowing down the crop emptying process. Hopefully metronidazole will do its job. 
Do not press the crop, especially if the bird is not in an alert state. It could choke on its own vomit. The vomiting can be because of sour crop/canker or due to the metronidazole. Does she have a foul smell from her beak?
A drop of honey in water is good in my opinion. Honey has also antibiotic properties.


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## PigeonHelper101 (May 24, 2014)

I don't touch her or feed her when she is asleep! When i touched her she was fully alert!


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## PigeonHelper101 (May 24, 2014)

She does have smelly mouth or foul mouth!


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

It seems like sour crop. The food is unable to pass through the crop, so it is fermenting there. Till the crop empties fully, give her only water. Nothing else.
Give her water with a bit of ACV (or honey ) in it, and gently massage the crop to get the food going. Do not press the crop, only massage in a circular motion carefully.
Is she pooping at all? If some green is there in the poop, it means atleast some food is making past the crop.
Keep updating on the status of the crop.


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## PigeonHelper101 (May 24, 2014)

She do have some green part in droppings! And how much time will it take to cure her? And i heard that sometimes these canker things get drug-resistance is it true?


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

It is important to complete the course of metronidazole, give it for 10 days minimum. Underdosing can cause resistance to drug. You can give 1 ml of that syrup, once daily for 14 days.
I know it must be a hard time for you. You just have to wait for the crop to empty. A pigeon can go for 3-4 days without food. But water is important. 
You can also provide additional heat. If you have a hot water bag, fill it, cover it with a thick towel, and place the bird on it. A sick bird cannot maintain its body temperature, so additional heat helps. It must not be too hot for her, just warm and cozy.
Keep up the massages, let her rest. Lets hope the metronidazole does its job. 
It might take a while for her crop to recover. If the crop empties, do not be in a hurry to feed. Start with 3-4 small seeds (say every 3 hours) and gradually increase. Do not stop the metronidazole even if improvement is seen. The course needs to be completed. I think you can give for 14 days.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

If she has a water filled crop, and you keep adding water, that won't help. Also, if the crop isn't emptying, then don't add honey. If there is a yeast problem, it will feed the yeast. Some warmed apple sauce (without sugar added), or a few drops of apple cider vinegar would be better to get into the crop.


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## PigeonHelper101 (May 24, 2014)

We don't have any apple sauce or vinegar product in our town and i switched her water now i am giving her water with garlic! i heard it somewhere that it have antibiotic things too! and that circular massage seems to be working! but she has gotten more weak i feed her some powder of grain,rice and another seed i don't know it's name tho, soaked in water!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You must have peas there. Can you cook them very soft and give them?
How are you giving the Metronidazole now?


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## PigeonHelper101 (May 24, 2014)

I looked in my town's market but no peas! And i am using syringe without needle!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You must have peas there.


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## PigeonHelper101 (May 24, 2014)

No peas bro i looked everywhere and she can even keep her head straight is it possible for pmv and canker to appear at same time


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

Hope you fed her only after the crop had emptied. I do not recommend the peas, especially when the crop is obstructed. Peas by their large size stay in the crop and ferment.
I would feed the smallest seeds.. jowar (sorghum) is easily digestible..

Garlic is also good...just watch his poops, watch his crop, make sure it emptying. Hand-feed as the crop empties. Keep up the metronidazole. Lets keep hope.


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## PigeonHelper101 (May 24, 2014)

So she just pooped and the green part seems to be increasing even tho its still watery dropping but there is less water then first time she pooped is it good or bad? i will post a pic later because of power cut!


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## PigeonHelper101 (May 24, 2014)

This is the weather report should i still provide her with extra heat?
Tue: 117°F | 84°F


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

If it is the normal green droppings, I would say it is good news. Post a photo of the dropping and her, if you can.
Keep up the feeding in small amounts. It is better to provide her heat. You can keep her in a carrier or a cardboard box, away from lights and noises and drafts of air. Keep a heat pad or hot water bag underneath her, after covering with a towel (test it with the back of your palm before placing her on it)..


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## PigeonHelper101 (May 24, 2014)

here is it but i think she is getting weaker! 
even tho it looks black but it's acutally green/dark green


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

That poop doesn't look like normal poop to me. When a pigeon is too starved, food is taken from the body reserves and the poops look blackish like this. 

Do you feel the food you are feeding is going past the crop? You can feel the crop and the grains if you feel his chest under the feathers. See if the seeds are remaining there.

Lets do whatever we can and hope for the best.


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## PigeonHelper101 (May 24, 2014)

only thing i find in her crop is liquid i tryed to massage her but her crop never gets empty! i gave her water now! no signs of getting better! but she gotten alot weaker now! and she shaking her tail too i guess it's called shivering or something like that!


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

I am sorry to hear that...I have been in your situation last July..unfortunately I could not save my pigeon.
The crop is occluded by the canker growth...only if it is removed the crop can empty. She is getting starved and dehydrated inspite of drinking because nothing goes past the crop.

Do not give water if the crop is already filled with water. 

I don't know what to say, keep her rested and be with her. Maybe she pulls through this by some miracle.


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## PigeonHelper101 (May 24, 2014)

Hey don't say that i think there is still some chance so i feed her water at 5:40 pm and i went to play cricket and and came back at about 7:45! she was sleeping on her head and her tail up! I thought she was dead but she was breathing so i took her and checked her crop it was empty i didn't felt anything in her crop! Half hour ago i feed her some powderd solution from three seeds just a little and honey water too since she needs some engery that's why! Right now i am going to sleep so let's hope for best!


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

That's good news!...I hope she makes it through the night.
I did not mean to be pessimistic, and I really want you to keep hope too. 
If you are going to check on her in the middle of the night and she looks better, feed her again some more seeds.


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## PigeonHelper101 (May 24, 2014)

So since morning she was only pooping water no white part or green part i was worried she gave a dropping with green part! So there is still hope i guess i just feed her water with garlic hoping when i return home her crop would be empty!


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

Glad to know she has made it to another day...please update on her progress. Hope you are feeding her as the crop empties. You can increase the consistency of the liquid feed gradually...she needs to get her strength back.
I think the metronidazole is working finally!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

She is not going to make it without getting food. 3 seeds is starving her. Starvation droppings are green. Don't give her honey if the crop isn't working, there could be yeast involved.


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## PigeonHelper101 (May 24, 2014)

So another day passed today she looks slighty better than yesterday maybe i am wrong! Yesterday she couldn't even stand but today she is standing without losing balance!


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Jay3 said:


> She is not going to make it without getting food. 3 seeds is starving her. Starvation droppings are green. Don't give her honey if the crop isn't working, there could be yeast involved.


*THIS! ^^^^^^^^
*


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## PigeonHelper101 (May 24, 2014)

I know i know i am not giving her honey, only garlic water and how to know that there is yeast problem? And even there is yeast problem how to cure it? Will metronzole cure it too?


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## PigeonHelper101 (May 24, 2014)

And i think food is being disgested cuz it's has been 6 days that she is with me if there was no food in her stomach she would have died of stravation but she is alive! There is green part too! I know when they strave they get food from their muscles or whatever it is called emergency food reserve maybe! But i don't think it will provide her food for 6 days and her emergency reserve was almost gone since she was just too much weak when i brought her to my room!


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## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

How much food (seed) are you getting in her? Please read and reread what other folks are writing above!! It sounds like you are only giving her a couple seeds and mostly water. An adult pigeon needs a LOT more than that or she will be starving and wasting away.


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

I would suggest you gradually increase the number of seeds, and check for emptying. If at any point, the crop seems to be slowing down, back down on the number of seeds and feed only after the crop has emptied.
She needs food to survive, but her crop also needs time to heal. The trouble is to find the right balance... since you are the one in front of her use your own judgement as to how much food her crop can handle.


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## PigeonHelper101 (May 24, 2014)

I know woodnative bro! I was feeding her honey for energy so someone said don't do that cuz there maybe yeast problem! So i stopped now i only feed her powdered seeds mixed in water in morning so i can give her metrodonzole or whatever it is called! But the main problem is crop is not emptying! And i don't want to feed her too much and block her passage from where food in crop goes inside body! Tell me what should i do?


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## PigeonHelper101 (May 24, 2014)

Kunju bro!
Tell me what should i do? Her crop is not emptying!


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## PigeonHelper101 (May 24, 2014)

Btw should i feed her yogurt? You know it contains good bacteria i used to feed the pmv fantail?


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

Nystatin can be used for yeast. Sometimes bacterial infections can also cause sour crop...you can give enrofloxacin for that too. 
Since you mentioned about the canker deposits, I was focused on the metronidazole, hence did not mention the other probabilities. I'm sorry about this.

I don't know about the yogurt. There are other risky things like keeping the pigeon rolled up in a newspaper in upright position, or turning the pigeon upside down and milking the crop, but I did not mention all these because you might just end up killing her. 

Enrofloxacin is also called baytril. Dosage is 5 mg per day.
Is her crop emptying atleast once in 24 hrs? If so, then we have hope I feel.


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## PigeonHelper101 (May 24, 2014)

Ok! i am going to market to see if i can get these things for her! and how should i give her i mean time should i give all at the same time or wait mints or hours and give her one by one?


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## PigeonHelper101 (May 24, 2014)

So crop was not empty and i went to market and asked about medicines you said to buy and shopkeeper was looking at paper for 2 mints and said never heard of these medicines so tell me something else that is avialble in pakistan!


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## PigeonHelper101 (May 24, 2014)

And i read on internet that bactrial and yeast ifection cause vomiting and my pidge is not vomiting


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

fluconazole and ketoconazole are other yeast drugs i know. For the antibiotic; other alternatives are ciprofloxacin or amoxycillin: these are used for humans too so easier to get. You can get the dosages from this site: you should giv the yeast and antibiotic medications atleast two hours apart. Preferably the yeast medicine on empty crop; and antibiotic two hours afterwards


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## PigeonHelper101 (May 24, 2014)

So after thinking about 10 mints i decided to do crop wash but i don't know how to do it i googled but nothing found! So tell me method and i will think about to do it or not! And this little girl i don't think survive alone on metrozondale!


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## kunju (Mar 14, 2012)

Here is a link of a detailed procedure how to do the crop wash..1) by inserting a tube and syringing out the contents or 2) turning the pigeon upside down.
If you don't have ACV, you can use synthetic vinegar.
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f27/slow-crop-5736.html

I don't recommend any of these at this point, since she is already weak.


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## PigeonHelper101 (May 24, 2014)

Unfortunately my neighbour asked to give him his pigeon i gave him syrup syringe too! So i guess i should close this thread and i got another pigeon in trade but this one is healthy! she is a female too highflyer breed!


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