# what does this mean?



## yang_fla0vr (Mar 31, 2009)

What does cull or culls mean for racing pigeons?


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## sky tx (Mar 1, 2005)

Rejected -as not up to what you expected. Get rid of them.


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Generally culls are racing pigeons that did not perform well enough for you to include in your breeding program. They can make great starter birds for a person just getting into the hobby or a 4-H project.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

TerriB said:


> Generally culls are racing pigeons that did not perform well enough for you to include in your breeding program. They can make great starter birds for a person just getting into the hobby or a 4-H project.


Agreed!


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## Aviephile (Oct 25, 2009)

Culling has always been my least favorite part of breeding. (Used to breed ferrets and ended up adopting, and keeping unwanteds till long after the fad ended...) Thought about breeding Gouldian Finches, rejected it for the same reason.
I've started in with racing pigeons, now, I think careful breeding selection can minimise the neccesity for culling. But, does anyone have a real solution to the problem?
I like the idea of donating birds to 4H projects and newcomers to the hobby, but- any other creative ideas?
Regs! Bill


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## ohiogsp (Feb 24, 2006)

To eliminate a bird that did not work out. There are lots of ways to do this, use them as pumpers, adoption, give away, esc. I like to give away or use as pumpers.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Aviephile said:


> Culling has always been my least favorite part of breeding. (Used to breed ferrets and ended up adopting, and keeping unwanteds till long after the fad ended...) Thought about breeding Gouldian Finches, rejected it for the same reason.
> I've started in with racing pigeons, now, I think careful breeding selection can minimise the neccesity for culling. But, does anyone have a real solution to the problem?
> I like the idea of donating birds to 4H projects and newcomers to the hobby, but- any other creative ideas?
> Regs! Bill


Using them as foster parents for the better breeders is one good thing they can become  That's about it other than selling or giving them away. I've went to a few chicken shows where they allow you to sell birds and things outside the show building. Lots of people will stop and ask you about the pigeons if they don't already know about them. Especially if they're pretty colors, LOL. I like taking a few birds when I can in hopes if getting someone interested in pigeons. Just keep in mind one man's 'trash' can be another man's treasure. I know if I didn't snag a couple extra birds Renee (Lovebirds on here) was adopting out, I would be hurting...since all my best birds have come out of those I got from her


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

yang_fla0vr said:


> What does cull or culls mean for racing pigeons?


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cull

cull (kŭl) 
tr.v. culled, cull·ing, culls

To pick out from others; select.

To gather; collect.

To remove rejected members or parts from (a herd, for example).

n. Something picked out from others, especially something rejected because of inferior quality.

When one raises birds, live stock, or animals of any kind, if you allow them to reproduce, in time you will have far more then you can possible keep. If you are a farmer, it is a simple task, the animals "Go to Market". 

If you are a breeder of any of the above, at some point, you will need to decide which ones to keep, and which ones not to keep. Unless you are going to keep them all, which in pigeons, would mean in a fairly short amount of time, you could own thousands of them. So, you could keep 10, a 100, a 1,000 or even 10,000....at some point, enough will be enough. So, you select the ones not to keep, and by defintion, that is "Cull". If one does not wish to cull, then the choice is simple, practice birth control for your birds, animals etc. 

It is generally accepted principal, that a breeder should keep those breeding specimens which best fits the "Ideal" or Standard, of what one is trying to reproduce. Those that are most ideal, and come closest to "perfect" are in reality, very rare, which is why the top representatives of a breed are so valuable. Those who are unable or unwilling to select from the best of what they own, to retain for breeding purposes, will most often breed down and not up. For these people, the term "Breeder" is applied very loosely. If we are talking dogs for example, then these people will produce animals with genetic defects which can cause hip problems, etc. 

In terms of Racing Pigeons, the same genetic rules apply here as in the rest of the animal kingdom. If you want to change the offspring of future generations, then selective pressure must be applied. Pigeons, if left to their own devices, will in a fairly few generations, return to the wild state. Which is why, IMHO....racing pigeons have not improved all that much in the last 30 years. Many fanciers, even if they start with some fantastic pigeons (not likely) in just a few generations will do so poorly in their selection process, that in time will own fairly typical and average pigeons. If they start with other people's culls and hand me downs of fairly typical pigeons, the likelihood of them producing exceptional above average pigeons within a decade or so, is on average, a very remote possibility. Mathematically, the odds are simply stacked against you. 

So, that is what is meant by culling your birds. 





.


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## cycler (Mar 27, 2009)

*whats a pumper?*

Thats a new one for me, what is it?


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## Lovelace (Jan 10, 2008)

A pumper is a cull that you can use to put eggs under from a proven pair and let the proven pair go down on another set of eggs, so you can get more babies from that proven pair. but the pumpers/cull have to be paired up and lay a set of eggs, replace their eggs with the proven pairs eggs.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

I think one thing to think about here is what to do to prevent large numbers of culls or unwanted birds. A few things that I have found to help in limiting your cull numbers are as follows:

Fly every bird you raise as a young bird. I did not do this this year and have extra non tested birds in the loft. I will not do this next year. Not a good thing to raise a bird that is not tested. You may have a champion sitting around. Test all you raise. Let the basket Cull.

Quality not Quantity. 5 good pairs using pumpers beats 10 pairs, those 5 good pair and 5 mediocre pair raising young. Limit your "maybe I will get lucky birds". Bet the odds here. Best breeds best mentality.

Limit your rounds of youngsters. Birds stay healthier, have more energy for youngsters. 

Only keep breeders that breed top notch birds. Rotate out your cull breeders. Use them as pumpers etc. Better your stock every year. Obtain better stock than what you have and select from the best. 

Keep good records so you know which birds are really your best. 

You strategies such as the Bull Method to keep your bloodline the best.

Don't sell or give away your worst bird. Soon you will have a fancier with a loft full of sub par birds. Your culls will most likely be unwanted by them also. Give them your best and compete against them. This will soon tell you if your selection methods are working. Can you beat your own stock the next year and so on?

Randy


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## Alamo (Nov 22, 2008)

I`m sure glad the MAN who helped me out when I was a ROOKIE,didn`t give me any CULLS.......OR......the MEN who sold me birds when I was a ROOKIE didn`t sell me any CULLS.....The worst thing to do is give CULLS to a NEW fancier !! No matter how PRETTY they are....Alamo


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

cycler said:


> Thats a new one for me, what is it?


basically foster parents......pumpers meaning how they feed babies, pumping that pigeon milk in those growing squabs....


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

A lot of people like to use larger birds like Utility Kings as pumpers for their racers. I have before and those babies grow very fast! 

I think there's a difference between giving away extra birds, and giving away culls. Although sometimes people will say they are just extras and have to reduce, when actually they're just giving away the worst out of their flock. Then again I guess it'd be the same, since they probably wouldn't give away their best even if they did have to get the feed bill down...hmm...


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

MaryOfExeter said:


> A lot of people like to use larger birds like Utility Kings as pumpers for their racers. I have before and those babies grow very fast!
> 
> I think there's a difference between giving away extra birds, and giving away culls. Although sometimes people will say they are just extras and have to reduce, when actually they're just giving away the worst out of their flock. Then again I guess it'd be the same, since they probably wouldn't give away their best even if they did have to get the feed bill down...hmm...


yes, If I was racing I would probably not have any prisoner birds in the loft, unless they were rescues, in which they can be used as pumpers... It would be by chance to come across some terrific breeders that someone wanted to find a new home for.....


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Cull is any bird you see you do not need in your program. No one gives or sells there top birds. Now no one that raises pigeon for show race or other compeitive ways. can not keep all the birds. OR raise just good birds. 1 pair of the worlds best say they raise 6 birds a given years. at best 4 would be what you would call a cull something you do not need. Often 5 would be. That is if you have a program of working the best you can have or get. NOW a percent are what fall as useable birds for other people To breed and race from. But even the best birds in your loft today will need to be removed at a certion point if you plan to improve or hold a performance based line of birds. Some see cull as destroy But removing lesser birds does not mean they must be destroyed. Birds in the basket gets a test but at times that best bird does not get home somthing happens. BUT thats the risks. it is a hobby a sport a need of man. and yes women too. But it becomes a art in the minds eye of how to breed and raise quality birds few suceed many try but its fun and a challenge. Your birds were most likely a cull of some bodys at 1 time Even those many thousand dollar birds When you have better you git rid of lesser.


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## doveone52 (Aug 3, 2009)

Why not think of "prisoners" as valued, protected pets. I'm sure there's a moment when they wish to fly free, but they seem pretty happy w/ loft and aviary life. Besides, Mother Nature has some pretty nasty surprises at times.


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

Culling is a taboo subject in this sport, and on this web site. It is in the traditional sense, the ugliest side of this sport, and has changed somewhat over the years, but not entirely. I personally am against the "traditional" (but most practiced method, whether you want to accept it or not). It does not promote our sport well and on these pages in particular, will draw "fire" and most likely the thread will just "disappear" if it is discussed at all. Unless all you write is "find them a good home" or something along those lines. Most of the flyers I currently know, hate to "cull", but accept it as a necessary evil.

I do not cull. Period. But I do have some thoughts on the subject.

If you send your "lacking" birds to the long races and they do not come back. Was it cruel to let nature cull them in that manner, or were you testing them? Because a bird that did not perform well in young bird races, or did not perform well at 250 miles, as an old bird, might be a good bird at 500 miles. Ya don't know until you know.

Also, is it better to let nature and the basket cull the ones who "do not have what it takes" in this sport, or as some do, by selling them for "other" reasons or by getting rid of them "by other methods"?

Personally, I keep each and every bird I receive, until it dies by nature or accident. The basket should be the only way of culling in my humble opinion.

I know many frown upon sending birds to long races. Birds that you expect may not come home. But hey. They just might be only good on the very long races. You do not know until you try them.

Let's say that you have 16 birds that just did not "cut it" in young birds. Always came home two hours late, or even the next day or two late. You don't want to breed from them and you don't want to feed them, and they are taking up space that the better performing young birds could use.

Some "cull" by various means, such as selling or giving them away. But in my opinion, I agree with others here. That we should not be putting "out there" to other flyers, our cast offs. Instead, if I am going to help another new flyer enter the sport. I will give him or her (females are rare in the sport of pigeon racing, let's face it), birds that I believe are worth breeding and racing, and should do well. I agree that I will not let birds go to new flyers, that are my best. But I will share young birds out of my best, with good veteran flyers. I expect and hope they will do the same with me.

Yes, this sport is about competition and I am as competitive as most. But I wouldn't want to play basketball against someone who was athletic but only 4'9" tall and I was athletic and 6'0" tall. Unless it was just for fun, or my young son whom I was teaching. It would not be competition.

Giving or selling birds to new flyers, that are not decent birds and are in fact birds you believe are subpar for racing, is a sure way to ruin the sport in the long run. But money is money and as humans go, they will always look to make a buck, sadly.

But then again. Maybe it's me and not the birds, when the birds do poorly.

So who knows?

I know one thing for sure. A cast off and unwanted bird has a better shot of surviving in nature. Than an unwanted bird does in a competitive flyers loft.

Sad but true. A "shot" at surviving is better than no shot at all.

Send your culls to the long races and find out if maybe that subpar bird just hasn't "clicked" yet.

Many will talk about the cruelty of sending birds to races, that you really do not believe will come back. But in my opinion, it is better than the realistic options available. There are not enough homes out there for the subpar racing performers as pets.

I know that this is a touchy subject here. But let's be real and humane about this.

I have written here several times that I do not cull in the traditional sense of the word. I have a forever home for every bird that comes home from races. Be it an hour late or a month late. But in order to not be overrun with birds, they go to the races until they do not come home. If I have prisoners that do not perform well as breeders, I DO NOT send them to the races to just get rid of them, or make them someone elses problem. I keep them forever.

If we went strickly by concern for the health and welfare of our pigeons, we would not race at all. There are so many dangers "out there" for our little winged warriors. Wires, hunters, predator birds, weather, vehicles and other such things. We intentionally send them into those dangers, when they would be perfectly happy to not go. It is not a bad thing though, because most would not have ever existed if we did not bring them forth, and most are treated like royalty before we send them off to the races.

This is a sport where some of the participants will unfortunately die doing the sport. Horses and jockeys die in horse races. Pilots die. Football players die. Skydivers die. People and animals in EVERY sport die sometimes. Well, maybe not chess, poker or checkers. But I bet there has been one or two.

In any event. Send them to the long races and give them a shot at life. Sort of like how Australia was founded and flourished. It was a land where Great Britain "dumped" prisoners and left them on their own to survive or not. Look how wonderful Australia is now. Because those prisoners were given a shot at survival, and they succeeded in many cases.

Please do not cull in the "traditional" sense of the word. In the last two months, I have had several flyers tell me how many birds they have culled recently. It sickens me each time I hear it (15, 25, 40 are the numbers). Better those birds were kept and sent 600 miles away. I know they take up space and they have to be fed until the long races. But we owe that to them, for what they do for us. Most of them fly their little hearts out, dodging danger all the way. 

Many will say that I am not realistic, and many will poo-poo me as an old softy. There will also be those that are borderline PETA joiners and chastize me for even thinking these thoughts. But, Oh well. I have never stuck my head in the sand like an Ostrich and refused to look a problem or situation straight in the eye. Life is what it is and we should not hide from it.

That is my opinon while standing on my soapbox.


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## Mindy (Apr 2, 2009)

Conditionfreak, what do you mean when you say, "the basket should be only way of culling?" I think its great that you get a bird and you keep it until it dies by nature or by accident. 


People that race and they dispose of there "garbage birds" like yesterdays trash is AWFUL. I have an old Racing bird, named Gia, and she is the sweetest most laid back bird I've ever seen. I don't understand killing perfectly innocent birds because you have NO use for them anymore or they aren't up to your standards. Honestly it makes me not ever want to get into racing, people that kill innocent birds I don't even want to know personally. What comes around goes around. I don't think setting them free is the answer either. Its a death sentence also. So its either starving to death or getting your neck cut off. I think people should take the time and find them a home for them. Get other people involved in the hobby. Or build another aviary and loft and put the retired ones in there. When a greyhound dog is retired, it is adopted out. I don't understand it and I'll never understand killing a perfectly innocent bird. It should be against the law and it should be called ANIMAL ABUSE!! Why do things have to become law before some people realize that maybe its wrong. If people have compassion and a heart they should know that it is WRONG!! It is morally WRONG!! min


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

Well Mindy. I am a vegetarian but I only have been for a little over a year. So most of my life, and most people on the planet, eat/ate meat. We could not eat meat if we did not kill animals for food. Lions, Tigers and bears do also. Sharks could not survive if they did not eat meat. It is the ugly truth about life on Earth. Everything eats something else to live. Few animals just eat plants (which are "alive" also).

When I say "let the basket cull your birds". I mean to send the non-performing racers to races anyway, until they no longer come home. They just might all of a sudden become a decent racer, but most likely they will either be lost to nature (weather, predators, etc), but if they do not come home, then can become feral and survive.

I have been in downtowns of various cities and have fed the pigeons at the Fountain Squares and Public Squares of those cities. There are thousands of pigeons that frequent these places to get fed by ther public and when they do not, they are "out there" in nature surviving as other ferals do. When I have been in these large flocks of "wild" pigeons, I have seen many with bands on their legs. Obviously lost racing pigeons. None looked like show or fancy pigeons that I can recall.

So, my point is, not all lost pigeons are under a death sentence. Many do go on to not only survive, but get married and raise children.

Let's at least give all of them that are no longer wanted, their shot at doing that.

There are just not enough homes for all of the unwanted racing pigeons. No matter how much we want there to be. It ain't even close. How can we find homes for racing pigeons that will have to be "prisoners", that are not worth breeding from, for 10,000 birds. At this time of year. (10,000 is an educated guess on my part and it may be twice that). Hell. There is nothing cuter than a kitten or puppy, and there is not enough homes for them. Let alone pigeons.


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

As a side note to your posting "When a greyhound dog is retired, it is adopted out". I will tell you that it is actually a rarity for a retired greyhound to be adopted.

I found this out two years ago when an old female Greyhound just showed up at my house and was surrounded by two of my dogs who were not happy with this stranger. She was obviously old and obviously had had pups not too long ago.

I live in the country and she had come out of the woods in back of my home, which is the only place she could have come from as the rest is fenced in.

We name her Matilda and after feed and water, in a couple of days we took her to the vet. Her nails were literally one and one half inches long (curled up under her paws) and she was very very skinny and hungry. The vet estimated that she was 9 to 11 years old.

I contacted the Greyhound Rescue people in Cincinnati and asked if they would take her. I have 7 dogs already and can not handle anymore. But she was a sweetheart.

They wrote me back that they only take bonafide former racers, as there were just too many Greyhounds that need homes and they couldn't find enough homes for very many of them. I asked them how they know a former racer from just a pet Greyhound and they told me that if it was a former racer, it would have tatoos of numbers inside both ears. They asked me to check her and give them the numbers. I did and she had the number tatoos. They told me that she was listed as a former racer and it appeared that someone got one last litter out of her and then dumped her in the woods. They said that it happens a lot. They came out in a few days and took her.

I hope she had a good life from here on out. She really was a sweetheart.

I have had other stray dogs show up here over the years, and have kept a couple of them. I have a close relationship with the local Humane Shelter. My wife and I volunteer to walk the dogs there sometimes. We also bring them treats, bleach and blankets, as well as cash donations.

Most of the time they just do not have the spaces to house anymore dogs and when I have contacted them about a stray now and then, they tell me they are truly sorry but they can not take it in. I am on my own finding a home for it/them.

I have a nice German Shepherd and a nice Rottweiller here now, that we have had for three or so years, that are stray rescues. They are gamily now and I am no longer looking for homes for them. But I was in the beginning. It is hard to find a good home situation for a Rott and German Shepherd. Too many bad or stupid people out there.

As far as pigeons versus dogs go. There is a huge difference in being able to survive in the wild. Pigeons only have to mimmick the feral pigeons to learn quickly how to survive and where the food spots are. Dogs turned loose, do not have this luxury as canines fight for their territories. Plus pigeons that are not good racers, have on the job training about how to survive on their own. When they are lost for days or weeks at a time, coming home late from races.


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## Aviephile (Oct 25, 2009)

Conditionfreak, I like your philosopy. What I intend to do is keep my flock small through controlling the breeding. All birds will get the chance to race (except prisoners who can't be settled, they have a home for life like my cage birds (oldest is 25yrs)). I used to breed ferrets. I ended up, after the fad faded, with a number of returns who lived out their lives here...
It will be interesting to see which birds do best as youngbirds, and which do best as oldbirds. I can see a time when I might not breed much at all, just fly my old favorites and maybe supply youngbirds to other racers.
I'm a rank newby so please forgive my idealism. ;-}
Bill KU4QB


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## Mindy (Apr 2, 2009)

Condtionfreak, thank you for explaining that to me. I really don't know what to say. I still think its awful for anything to be killed. I don't know how people can do it. I can't even kill a mouse. I also volunteer at my local animals shelter every sat. We have 4 dogs there that have been there between 9-12 years. We call them lifers. I think something needs to be done about the puppy mills and about pigeon racing. I don't have the answers, but hopefully someone will in the future. I was reading the other day that 70,000 dogs are born each day. That just seems like a very large amount. I think people in racing should practice birth control, I mean I don't know how they can choose, that bird dies today and that bird doesn't. I don't know how I feel about setting them free. On one hand I guess they get a shot at living and on the other hand I think some die a horrible death. I just hate to see anything suffer. I'm from AZ so I'm familiar with the grey hounds. I remember when they found dozens in the dessert dead from a irresponsible owner. He did get prison time out of it. It really makes me cry just thinking about all the birds die from the hands of there irresponsible owners that just keep breeding because they can. If you hatch it then you should let it live out its life. If you can't do that, then DON'T Hatch IT!! Its so simple. Problem SOLVED!! min


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

I have an acquantice that has written a book titled "In life, everthing dies".

It is being published in a few days. It is actually a book that has nothing to do with any of the things we are talking about here, but the title pretty much sums up the way things are on earth.

"In life, everything dies."

I guess the true measure of life is HOW we lived what life we had. Did you just survive or did you really LIVE.

Me? I've got a "bucket list".  I add to it every year.


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## Aviephile (Oct 25, 2009)

I don't have a "list", I just wing it. ;-] But one does have to be careful, some things require a long term commitment. Pigeons for example...
Bill


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## Mindy (Apr 2, 2009)

I agree, everything dies. They say death is a blessing its the reason we get up and try to make the most of each day. Or at least we hope people do. If we didn't die people would probably do nothing. 

I also think birds shouldn't die by someone hands just because they have NO use for it anymore. Just because you can doesn't make it right. Its WRONG!! min

Conditionfreak, let me know when you write a book. I want to be first on your list. I will try to find the new book coming out. Thank you, min


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Mindy said:


> ....I also think birds shouldn't die by someone hands just because they have NO use for it anymore. Just because you can doesn't make it right. Its WRONG!! min....


Mindy,

I am assuming that you also feel the same way about cats and dogs ? Our local SPCA kills at least 50 cats a week. It is sad. I think I did my part by giving a loving home to 7 cats, and for a short period of time we will provide short term care for 2 more....but at 9 cats, with 4 litter boxes to be cleaned out twice a day, there is a limit to what one can do. 

Are you willing to take in pigeons which are no longer wanted or needed ? I could possibly arrange for our various clubs to drop them off at our next combine meeting, if you can come and pick them up ? With 9 clubs, there may be quite a few. I'm guessing there could be many hundreds. 

I am fortunate in that I have very few birds after the YB season that do not have some commercial value and thus interested buyers, but not everyone is in that position. Plus we have a growing club, and every year there are some new fliers in need of pigeons. But again, not every fancier is out there promoting the sport and growing their club. So Mindy, if you are willing to provide a good home to these unwanted or otherwise unneeded pigeons, it might make some difference.


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## Mindy (Apr 2, 2009)

First Off I have 12 cats. All of my birds are rescues. And of course I feel that way about dogs and cats. But I can't help every animal on this earth. My point is, If you hatch them, then you should find a home for them or keep them until they die on there own. If you can't do that, then don't hatch them!! So because I think killing innocent perfectly healthy pigeons is WRONG you want me to take all of your unwanted birds and not only that, you want me to pick them up. Are you kidding me??? If you feel good about cutting off there neck, or however you do it, then you have to live with yourself. I'm not the only one on this forum that thinks culling is WRONG. Maybe I'm the only one that speaks out about it. But believe me I'm not the only one. If you take the time to hatch babies, then take the extra time to find a home for them. If you can't do that, then don't hatch them. I have a handicap bird upstairs, If you had a handicap bird I'm sure you would have NO trouble taking its life. Well I DO!! And my Little Ray, is the sweetest bird and anyone that wanted to end her life would have missed out on it. I don't understand it, I'll NEVER understand it, and all the excuses you make are not good enough. mindy


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

Mindy. I honestly can not recommend the new book "In Life, Everything Dies". As I understand it, it is about ten or twelve ways that individuals die in short stories. I know that one of them is death by zombie.

So, I really can't recommend it. I just happen to know the writer. We are fellow comic book collectors.

Warren. You and I (and everyone else) knows that there are just not enough people to take in unwanted pigeons. Not nearly enough.

That is just the way it is. With pigeons, cats, dogs, horses, and even human children. Sad but true.


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## Mindy (Apr 2, 2009)

Since we all know there isn't enough homes for cats, dogs, pigeons, and horses and even children. Then everyone should make more of an effort to help the problem instead of adding to it. All of my pets are neuter/spayed, I only take rescued pigeons, all of mine never have babies, I volunteer at my local shelter and I have a dog that is a rescue. And Zero children for me. 

Conditionfreak, as I once told you, you need to write a book. Can't wait until you do. min


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Mindy said:


> ..... So because I think killing innocent perfectly healthy pigeons is WRONG you want me to take all of your unwanted birds and not only that, you want me to pick them up. Are you kidding me??? If you feel good about cutting off there neck, or however you do it, then you have to live with yourself. I'm not the only one on this forum that thinks culling is WRONG. Maybe I'm the only one that speaks out about it. But believe me I'm not the only one..... If you had a handicap bird I'm sure you would have NO trouble taking its life....... I don't understand it, I'll NEVER understand it, and all the excuses you make are not good enough. mindy


 I suspect, that any racing pigeon fancier which visits this site, and reads your aggressive posts, will not be persuaded or won over to our non-lethal way of thinking, by your confrontational and accusatory style. 

Where and when did you ever hear me suggest, or anyone else on this forum, that people should kill pigeons ? And I never suggested that you come and take any pigeons from me. I did suggest in perhaps a round about way, that other then preaching to the choir, that you might actually do something about the problem, instead of standing on a soap box while pointing your finger and making wild accusations.

I would also suggest, that this is the Homing and Racing Pigeon section, where many of us do practice selective breeding. I posted the definition of the word "Cull" just for people such as yourself, who always seem to want to pick a fight with those who engage in the sport of racing pigeons. But, you have shared your beliefs now, that you don't believe in selective breeding, and you never allow your pigeons to breed. Which in reality means, you have a few pigeons as pets, but you are not a pigeon fancier. You have not said as much, but I suspect you also dislike the idea of sending pigeons hundreds of miles away, in order for them to race home. 

I do appreciate your sharing your thoughts with us, as to what Homing and Racing Pigeon Fanciers should and should not do. We always appreciate people on the sidelines, with no vested interest in our sport, telling us what they think we should do.


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## Mindy (Apr 2, 2009)

Smithfamilyloft, I think NO matter what I would write you would think it was aggressive because I don't think the way you do. So I'm not a pigeon Fancier because I don't let mine breed. Okay, well I guess I'm a pigeon advocate. Instead of adding to the problem of unwanted pigeons, I've decided to help those. And the reason for me not wanting to get involved in racing is because of the way some racers dispose of there unwanted birds. It makes me sick just thinking about it. And in your first post you did suggest I pick up the birds after you call around to other lofts so they can drop off there unwanted birds. Mindy


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

War of words gets started every time the cull word comes up. there is several ways to cull with out killing. And warren made an offer about giving unwanted birds away. Why get mad if you like birds so much. Truth is all keepers of animals and birds ect must cull To keep a balance. Even plants are culled to keep a balance. I guess cull is seen as a hate word by some and understood by others. Perhaps time to end this thread before the war deepens


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