# video of how the pigeon tries to fly



## wahegurubol (Oct 1, 2007)

i have included a video for you to please check and see..why this pigeon isnt able to fly..here is the video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zb5xM_XSDDI


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Well, there is a problem there for sure. That isn't normal. However, I can't tell you what's wrong. Hopefully someone will come along with some ideas. It's still early here in the US. Poor baby.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi wahegurubol,



Yahhhh...he's injured a Wing, not sure which one, maybe his right...

Strained or pulled a muscle or tendon, maybe even cracked a bone...

So, don't let him do this...set him up in a comfortable smallish Cage, set the Cage elbow high or a little higher in some quiet calm place in doors...and if he tries to use his Wings then, in the Cage, gently tape the ends of both Wings Primary Feathers together at the tips, over the small of his back...and let him rest his Wings for two weeks or a little more even...then let him out again and see how things seem.


In fact, gently, carefully feel and visually inspect Both Wings Bones, get a helper if need be to help hold him, to see if maybe he has broken a Bone in one Wing...look for any swollen spots or looseness or discolorations...anything which might be an injury...and let us know...


Good luck..!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, the essential parts of the video are just too fast to tell but there might be one wing not rotating upward like it should. Try this: holding the pigeon, take the good wing and rotate it upward over the bird's back while still in the folded position. It won't give any resistance beyond whatever the bird puts into it. Then, try to do the same thing with the other wing and see if there seems to be any resistance beyond muscular tension. It may be that it won't rotate through the normal range. If that's the case then you can try daily physical therapy but that's a bad sign.

However, given some of you other description on your other thread, it's also possible that it's PMV. That's something that may pass through or it might render the bird unreleasable in the future. I'll get Cynthia (cyro51) to come take a look.

Pidgey


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

To be honest I am not sure about this one.

The PMV pigeons that I have had that have found and that had difficulty flying all had some visible neurological symptoms as well such as torticollis, turning in circles and seed tossing. And despite their problems initially at least they could fly up from the ground even though they were inclined to spin around when they did so.

Cynthia


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## wahegurubol (Oct 1, 2007)

OH MY GOD
Cyro.. this bird does go keep going round and round in the cage with its beak pointing upwards.. it looks as if it is chasing an flying insect or something ...but i cant see any flying thing in that cage...

then sometimes it puts its beak upwards..tilted rotating its head..looks weird... also the way it stands..

it has grown from the first day i brought it... before it use to fly on table tops...

what do u think is wrong


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## wahegurubol (Oct 1, 2007)

and it also makes a mess of its eating place.

could it be that the medicine had done this to her ???? he had give me two tablets, one to be fed in the day and one at night and some powder to mixed in water..he said it was vitamins..etc....


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

That definitely sounds like PMV. How long have you had him? They can make a spontaneous recovery, but it takes time.

This thread gives you just about all the information that I have on PMV and its treatment:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=12250&referrerid=560

Cynthia


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## wahegurubol (Oct 1, 2007)

hi cyro,
that is really sad news for me... could it be the medicine did this to her !!!!!! 
this is what it eats all day , it doesnt eat anything else besides it
It doesnt eat pigeon feed at all..... it only eats "KIKI EXCELLENT MAX MENU FOR CANARIOS" and here are the ingredients....

"Canary seed, peeled oats, black turnip rape, linseed, hempseed, radish, elm seed, fennel and vitamin granlues."

Vitamin/KG : Vitamin A8.500UI, VITAMIN D3 1.500UI, VITAMIN C:20MG, VITAMIN E :15UI.

for some reason it only likes to eat this canarios food....and doesnt eat anything else. It doesnt like corn and wheat.. i donno know why....

so will it recover or not ???


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

This wouldn't be something that the vet caused, it is a virus.

I can't fortell whether he will recover completely, some do and some don't , it depends on the damage that the virus has done to their nervous system. It should survive, but you have to be patient about recovery. 

The first ones that I rescued had really severe symptoms but made a complete recovery. I knew nothing about pigeons then so I just provided food and water and let them be. They took 4 months to get back to normal. Some take even longer than that.

If he is enjoying the canary seed then let him have it. I usually feed my PMV pigeons small seeds, they are easier to digest.

Cynthia


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## wahegurubol (Oct 1, 2007)

but on the link you gave me and some searches i made..humans get infected, the virus is present in their faceus... i really dont want my mental health to be bad.

today when i put it on a cushion, it tried to fly , the first time it opened its feather it lost its balanced and fell on the head , flipped and then ran... its there in the video 

i think it will be safer to give to the animal shelter society, i dont know what they will do prolly keep it or give it to someone who keeps pigeons.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi wahegurubol,

I didn't notice in Cynthia's link where it states that the PMV virus is highly
contagious to humans, I see that she stresses the importance of not exposing
other ferals or loft pigeons to a bird sick w/the virus, but that is it.

Could you copy and paste what you are referring to and also post a link to the
sites that state the same. I'm just not aware of this as an issue w/PMV.

fp


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## wahegurubol (Oct 1, 2007)

okay plese read this links

http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/diseases/notifiable/pigeons/index.htm

Factors which can lead to spread of disease

* Contact between birds;
* Contact with contaminated travelling boxes, transporters etc, that have not been adequately cleansed and disinfected;
* Drinking water in lofts and transporters
* Pigeon fanciers visiting lofts and carrying infection on their clothes, hands and feet;
* Stray pigeons entering the loft
* contact with wild pigeons


*Clinical signs*

Occasionally, in some outbreaks, some pigeons may die suddenly without showing any clinical signs. In the loft, the first signs are usually of diarrhoea, sometimes watery, usually greenish in colour. Birds become reluctant to move, depressed and lose their appetite, although they may drink more than usual. They will become quiet and reluctant to exercise. Birds of all ages may be affected, although in some lofts disease has been confined to young birds.

Nervous signs may develop early, even preceding signs of diarrhoea, *with trembling of the wings and head. Birds may tumble over when landing.* Partial paralysis of wings and legs may occur and twisting of the neck (torticollis). In some cases, birds may not be able to pick up grain on attempting to feed. It is not uncommon for the majority of pigeons in a loft to show signs of the disease and a proportion of these may die. Those recovering from the disease may be left with some nervous signs. Others may have their racing ability affected. Similar symptoms are produced by other pigeon diseases e.g. enteritis, salmonellosis, and by some poisons e.g. chemically - dressed seed.

Read also this one
*http://www.epah.net/birds/Paramyxovirus.html*

Signs- Initially, infected pigeons will consume more water and have watery, greenish droppings. They will often go off feed, act depressed, rest fluffed-up and lose weight. Later in the course of the disease, birds may develop neurologic signs. The first being incoordination and inability to fly. Head and neck twisting is easily recognized and often leads to circling or head and neck tremors. Paralysis or weakness of wings and legs can also occur. Nine out of 10 birds with prominent neurologic signs will die and unvaccinated squab mortality may reach 100%.

I think i should turn this bird in to the vet 2morrow, what do you say. I have to daily clean its faecus wich it does on the newspaper and i can get infected to .. by inhalation i guess


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

All I've ever read is that in the worst exposures, it can give humans a slight and transient conjunctivitis (a short-lived inflammation of the inside surfaces of your eyelids for the most part). I don't think anyone here has ever even mentioned that from firsthand experience and many of us have had PMV birds--I've got two that were probable. They both have certain mannerisms to this day which are reminiscent of their worst period but they can currently fly, drink and eat normally. I wouldn't release them around here, though, because I have too many hawks which I don't think they could evade as well. It's possible that might not be the case there, I just don't know.

How long was your trip going to be? Is there any way that you could leave the little guy with a friend for while you're gone?

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, since you're THAT worried, I'll just mention that I kept both of the ones that I had in the house, one in the living room. I had a lot of intimate contact and suffered no ill effects. The gastrointestinal and possibly kidney symptoms on the bird in the living room were extremely severe. The total time that the bird spent in the house was over four months. No problem (for me).

Pidgey


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## wahegurubol (Oct 1, 2007)

well the trip wont bea problem, the animal shelter can keep it with them and return it to me.

but it can develop neck tumors by movings its head all the time and rotating it.. i am scared of that u know.

and what about faecus i can get it by cleanings it faecus also, the virus is present in the faecus andi have to clean its cage everyday otherwise the bird and the cage will get all dirty and infection will develop.


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

I saw the video too, and the first thing I thought of was PMV as well. You mentioned that he is trying to chase an insect that is not there. I have never seen any pigeons chasing insects before, so that leads me to believe that he is doing the "star gazing" thing. He is a messy eater you also said. Yes, I believe your pigeon rescue does have this . It is common in feral pigeons and is not contagious to humans or other animals only a threat to other pigeons. 

You don't have to worry about contacting the disease, but as in handling any animal, it is always wise to wash your hands. Whenever I handle my pigeons, I always wash or sanitize my hands.

I agree that the vet did not introduce your bird to PMV. It got this from another pigeon.

If you are worried about handling the dirty newspapers and getting in contact with the feces. may I suggest you use disposable plastic gloves.

Pidgey, Cyro and feralpigeon are indeed experts here. Please try and follow their advice.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

All you could get is mild conjunctivitis if you rubbed your eyes after handling a pigeon with PMV. I have been treating pigeons with PMV for 7 years and have never been affected in any way.

Those links show how it is transmitted *between pigeons.* There is no danger to you . While it is with you it is not going to infect any other pigeons. If you take it to an animals shelter they will kill it as it has to be kept apart from other pigeons for 6 weeks.

I am very disappointed .

I should add that DEFRA is the Department of Environment And Rural Affairs. Their concern is the spread of disease between animals. They are not involved with human diseases.

Cynthia


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

We have also cared for a number of pigeons with PMV. They stayed in our home for several months until they recovered and were then put in an aviary. We never had a problem with handling them. 

Pigeons with PMV, to me, are exceptionally sweet, gentle birds and worth every bit of the extra care they initially need to overcome this illness. All it takes is time.

Thank you so much for the help you're giving it.


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## wahegurubol (Oct 1, 2007)

hi okay i think i can take your guys advice... yes i will need to get disposable gloves 2morrow....

but i am very scared looking at this pigeon... because it twists its head in impossible ways.. and i feel that it may not get tumor or something... you know... i sometimes cannot see its suffering.

so what exactly does PMV do to the bird. is it like a schizophrenia in a pigeon that suddenly comes up and makes the bird go all weird and then goes off?

so this means that this bird will nevery fly again?

In Kuwait we have a soceity for animals shelter.

there prime duty is to rescue injured animals in kuwait and take care of them and re-home them as pets. they have rescued many dogs, cats with broken bones and diseases and cured them and re-homed them.

they have also resuced a duck and a parrot...

what do you advice?? 

even with me it is sitting in a big enough cage all day , it eats , sleeps and sits..and does nothing.

and just now when i saw the pigeon it had its head turned backwards and it was upside down

PMV is such bad news for me.. i was dreaming that this bird gonna be pigeon racer, but now all dreams for its flying got shattered... the poor baby.. theres so much suffering in this world  

so I assume it will heal by itself if it has to heal? but its symptoms are getting worse day by day.....the major symptoms
1)Not standing straight on its legs, always on the heels
2)Twisting, rotatings its head/neck like anything crazy
3)Doing the star gazing thing at night ... walking in circles , looking upwards and openning its beak.
4)When it tries to fly ..it spins in the air... not somersault.but spinning in the other way like the earth spins.

Do you think I can get PMV when I change its water.. i have to change its drinking water also everyday na !


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

PMV is a virus that attacks the nerves that control the muscles. It won't make the bird "crazy" in the mental sense of the word. It just can't control its actions. Just like when you've been leaning on your arm or leg too long and it goes numb. When you try and move that arm or leg, it won't necessarily move when you tell it to until that pins and needles feeling goes away a bit. PMV acts a lot like that, in that the bird is trying to do something -- eat a seed, drink water, but its body won't cooperate. The main reason the virus can kill a bird is that the tremors and lack of muscle control cause the bird to starve because it can't drink or eat properly. The good thing about this disease is that the bird will improve and can regain total or near total muscle control after the virus runs its course. 
I'm sure its scary to watch but with all the coaching you get on this board and all the experienced people that can, through the internet, help you, you and your bird friend will do well. 
Have you named it yet? Names are nice and this little one needs to know you are its friend. Pigeons are smart and it won't be long before this one will recognize its name.


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## SueC (Jun 9, 2005)

I don't hve any experience with PMV birds. But having joined this forum for quite a while, I've noticed that some of the members have PMV birds as pets. They are fun, sweet and just like any other birds who require TLC from their keepers.

Please, do not be afraid of your bird. She may have shattered your dreams but please give her a chance. She needs your loving care. If you read the earlier threads, the condition of PMV birds may improve over time. Please give her time.

Suzanna


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## wahegurubol (Oct 1, 2007)

hi thanks for your encouragement. i havent named it yet, because i really wanted this bird to go join its folk out there and that it could enjoy its life socialising with other pigeons and not sit in the cage all day. so far me and my family just calls it "The Pigeon".

So lets hope God blesses this bird ! ..

but the symptoms have got worse each day ! ... 

i want to bring to your notice that when the bird displays the symptoms and if i come infront of it.. it gets scared and stops displaying the symptoms....and it then just keeps staring at me.

*pls I hope there is no real danger from its faecus !!!*


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

wahegurubol said:


> So lets hope God blesses this bird ! ..
> 
> 
> 
> *pls I hope there is no real danger from its faecus !!!*


I think that God already did by making sure you found it, and then blessing you with this pigeon site.

With PMV, the symptoms do get worse. I imagine it has reached that stage.

The pigeon is probably afraid of you. It is normal for him or her to be afraid of you. It does not understand that your are trying to help it, not yet anyway. But as stated before, pigeons are a very smart bird. It is staring at you because he is probably trying to understand your intentions.

Believe us when we say there is no danger to you with the pigeon droppings (feces). As long as you wash your hands with soap and water after handling the bird or the droppings, you are safe. As Cyro said, do not touch your eye till after you wash your hands.

You are a dedicated human to this pigeon,you call "Pigeon".


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## warriec (Feb 2, 2007)

The main question is how long has the bird had this problem for an when did i develop


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## wahegurubol (Oct 1, 2007)

warriec said:


> The main question is how long has the bird had this problem for an when did i develop


hi Warrie,
to be exact I had found this bird 9 days ago. I was working on a construction site when some workers picked up this bird and then another foreman told to put it outside and not inside.. and then I took it home.

When i brought it home, it wasnt able to fly.. it was normal..perfectly normal. It was very weak, it was not able to eat...but then it started eating canary seeds... and use to fly on table tops also.

I found this problem in the bird this last saturday, about 5 or 6 days from now on... on last friday(7 days ago) i had taken it to the vet and had gave it some medicine.

do you think the medicine did it?


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

It probably was just getting the virus when you found it. It takes a few days to a couple of weeks to even a couple of months for most viral infections to show themselves, whether it's a cold, the flu, or something else. That's the "incubation" period. The virus is in the system, but there aren't enough viral particles to cause noticable sypmtoms. Usually the symptoms get worse before they get better but they do get better. 

The virus has to run its course. There are no antibotics to "cure" a viral infection but there are some other bacterial infections that are sensitive to antibotics that may start up at the same time just because someone (in this case, Pigeon) is run-down from the virus. 

If the vet gave you some medicines, it's better to keep going on those to prevent those secondary infections from becoming a real problem. The medicines didn't cause the problems, unless it was a weird medicine. 

Like Victor said, it's looking at you because it is trying to figure out if you are friendly but it may also stare at you because that's the only way it can manage its head right now. When you move or otherwise startle it, Pigeon will move in reflex and that is what sets off all these tremors right now. Its brain is saying "move away" or "eat seeds" but its muscles aren't following directions very well so everything moves. 
What this little bird needs for you to do is give it supportive care, make sure it stays safe and make sure it's getting enough to eat and drink while those tasks are hard for it to manage -- oh yes, and the cleaning up too. Just like a baby.


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## wahegurubol (Oct 1, 2007)

hi
I was just reading about PMV on the internet and it says that a proportion of birds die..but those that survive will always nervous disorders... so this means do they remain partially handicap for the rest of their lifes?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

A lot of the descriptions that you get are for commercially raised birds within loft-type housing. What that often means is that due to the amount of birds within house, the individual exposure for each bird gets magnified to a horrific degree and the symptoms in such cases are often far worse. For a single bird out in the open, it's often far less. Also, it's far more practical to heal a single bird than to deal with hundreds or thousands in the large captive flock situation.

Yes, they can remain affected for the remainder of their lives but they can usually fly and be pretty normal. The symptoms that you're seeing right now should diminish drastically in time.

Pidgey


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

wahegurubol said:


> <<<<< snip >>>>
> 
> I found this problem in the bird this last saturday, about 5 or 6 days from now on... on last friday(7 days ago) i had taken it to the vet and had gave it some medicine.
> 
> do you think the medicine did it?



Hi wahegunubol,


What was the Medicine the Vet provided you, or, which the Vet gave to the Pigeon?


Phil
l v


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> it says that a proportion of birds die..but those that survive will always nervous disorders.


This is not true. The four pigeons with severe PMV that I rescued 7 years ago made a complete recovery...I kept them because I was afraid of what would happen to them if I released them. During the past seven years none of them have shown any nervous symptoms at all.

I have rescued many other pigeons with PMV since then. Some made a complete recovery, others had permanent handicaps. None of them died.

Please be assured that you cannot catch Pigeon Paramyxovirus by handling the bird, faeces or water. Chickens can develop a mild form of the disease but other than that only pigeons and doves are at risk. 

We (the members of this site) have done a lot of reseach on the subject over the past 5 years...we wouldn't expose ourselves to the virus if there was the slightest risk of catching the disease.

Cynthia


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

wahegurubol said:


> i want to bring to your notice that when the bird displays the symptoms and if i come infront of it.. it gets scared and stops displaying the symptoms....and it then just keeps staring at me.
> 
> *pls I hope there is no real danger from its faecus !!!*




Hi waregurubol, 



PMV...PPMV...usually, the Pigeon is displaying the least symptoms when calm or at rest, and, excitement of any kind tends to cause the symptoms to become more severe for the moment.


Possibly, this is an inner Ear infection, and not PMV, but then he does seem to walk alright, so...hmmmmmmm...I don't know.



The 'danger' associated with PMV or with PPMV is only of concern to other Pigeons. 

Where...If you get 'infected' faeces on your Shoes, or Shoe soles, or on your hands or clothing, and close by, you visit another place Pigeons are kept, it is possible to bring the disease with you, and for the other Pigeons to get it...just from your tracking it in on your Shoes and cloths or hands.


It is a Virus, so the actual Viruses die in a short time if not in a Pigeon's body...so, infected faeces or other materials will become neutral anyway, as they are exposed to air, dryness and or sunlight. 

Our Bodys are not correct hosts for the Viruses.

There is no danger to humans or to other Animals, and virtually none to other species of Birds.


I have never heard of anyone actually getting a mild irritation of the eyes, even though the mention exists as a possibility in the technical literature.

There are thousands of Viruses which we get exposed to constantly in daily Life...and thankfully, very very few of them are interested in us or able to cause any discomfort...and those which do, are ones we would get from other People.


What is 'dangerous' to Humans, is any public Door Knob or push bar, any common Table Top items in restaurants, such as Salt Shakers, which people touch and leave for the next person to touch.
Shaking Hands on meeting friends or co-workers or other...or any human-to-human contact, direct or indirect.



In terms of disease people can, do, or will catch...these conditions of every day human contact, without thinking about it, these are VERY dangerous, especially of one touch items, children, doorknobs, and then rub an eye, bite a fingernail, or otherwise contact any mucous membrane.

So, save your worrys for these common every day things! - in which the real actual dangers for people are.

You are not going to get PMV from your Pigeon...


Best wishes...!

Good luck..!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## wahegurubol (Oct 1, 2007)

just a question, the bird had spent a lot of time in my room yesterday,going under my bed where m books are kept , on the cushion where my mom sits to stitch on the sewng machine. arent we in danger of the virus /conjuctivities i mean?


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Your pigeon is not a health threat to you or anyone else except the pigeon species. As stated before, just be sure and wash your hands after handling this bird, whether it was healthy or ill.

Keep the bird quiet and comfortable, and isolated.


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## wahegurubol (Oct 1, 2007)

i just want to ask is it surethat this bird has PMV-1 , it is not any other disease like salmonella or anything else that can affect humans?


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

wahegurubol said:


> i just want to ask is it surethat this bird has PMV-1 , it is not any other disease like salmonella or anything else that can affect humans?


While we can't say for sure without actually having the bird and having tests run, I'd be willing to bet that this is PMV with about a 99.9% probabilty. I am really comfortable in telling you that you and your family or anyone that comes into to contact with this bird has nothing to worry about. Obviously, you should wash your hands after handling and tending to the bird .. that's just good hygiene.

Terry


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## wahegurubol (Oct 1, 2007)

but can other diseases like salmonella infect humans?


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> but can other diseases like salmonella infect humans?


Only if the pigeon is carrying salmonella in the first place and the person accidentally or deliberately ingests the faeces or food contaminated by the faeces, or eats the pigeon or an undercooked pigeon egg. 


Cynthia


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## wahegurubol (Oct 1, 2007)

what about by inhalation? since it is airborne


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I have never heard of a human being catching salmonella by inhalation!

THis is from the DEFRA report on Salmonellosis. As you will read people carry it, so you are as likely (or unlikely) to catch it from an acquaintance as from a pigeon:



> Salmonellosis
> Salmonellosis is an infection of animals and man caused by a group of bacteria called Salmonella. These can live in the digestive tract of a wide range of mammals (including people), birds and reptiles and are present worldwide. Over 2,500 strains (serovars) of Salmonella are known most of which rarely cause disease. However certain strains, such as S.entiridis and S.typhimurium, may cause human disease if, for example, foodstuffs become contaminated with animal faeces. Eggs from infected hens and milk from infected dairy herds may also contain salmonella. Infection may also follow contact with infected animals. It is usually fairly short-lived and often does not cause any obvious disease. However disease may occur with high temperature, diarrhoea and blood poisoning. In a few cases infected animals or people may carry certain strains of the bacteria for prolonged periods. Laboratories report all findings of Salmonella in samples from food producing animals and animal feed to the Government every year. These data are gathered together and published.


http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/diseases/vetsurveillance/az_index.htm#salmonella


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

This is a link to a report of zoonoses in the UK in 2005 (the latest report available). Scroll down to the report on salmonella, that will tell you about the sources of infection. There is no record of anyone catching salmonella from a pigeon in that year, although there were plenty of cases of salmonellosis acquired from other sources.

http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/diseases/zoonoses/zoonoses_reports/zoonoses2005.pdf

When it comes down to it, people are the creatures that carry the majority of diseases that can infect humans. In the UK we can expect 3,000 - 4,000 deaths of influenza, transmitted from human to human, each winter. In 1989/1990 there were over 30,000 deaths due to influenza. And yet we never worry about being in the same room as another human. And just look at this report on the increase in UK deaths associated with the hospital acquired superbug MRSA:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4742770.stm

So basically in a country like the UK we have no deaths from pigeon acquired salmonellosis but potentially 30,000 or more from human acquired influenza. I think that puts the risk a sick pigeon poses in proportion.

Cynthia


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Incidentally, the specific Salmonella that our birds usually get is FROM mice. Mice are the carriers. In fact, it's encoded in the Latin name "Salmonella typhimurium"--the "-murium" part of the word is Latin for "from mice". So, mice are more to be feared than pigeons. 

In any case, most of us who rehab bring Paratyphoid-infected (Salmonellosis; same thing) birds in to treat a lot, too. I've never seen anyone come down with Paratyphoid from an infected bird. It doesn't sound like your bird's infected with that, though, as there'd probably be some other symptoms like extreme depression that you'd see with the neurological symptoms. When they've got that particular disease and it presents with the neurological signs, they don't usually last very long.

Pidgey


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## wahegurubol (Oct 1, 2007)

hi
today in the morning when the bird was eating seed..it was throwing its head backwards each time it tried to eat the seed.

now... when i return from home, i saw it walk in circles and later in the day it was throwing its head backwards.. making it go upside down....and doing all the head-rotations... it was scary to watch.

also ... i feel the symptoms are getting stronger, it wasnt this strong before... it was pretty normal and it has also slowed its eating...it eats less now , drinks less.

it doesnt do liquid fecus..the first day i had brought in, it did a white liquid fecus and today i saw one ... but rest of fecus is solid.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Sounds about right. You're looking at a few weeks of that behavior. The worst one that I had spent about a month or so having to be fed by hand because she couldn't eat and she had her head upside down on the floor of the cage most of the time, especially when we walked in the room. She got better.

Pidgey


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## wahegurubol (Oct 1, 2007)

Pidgey said:


> Sounds about right. You're looking at a few weeks of that behavior. The worst one that I had spent about a month or so having to be fed by hand because she couldn't eat and she had her head upside down on the floor of the cage most of the time, especially when we walked in the room. She got better.
> 
> Pidgey


You know i havent told my parents that it has got PMV, if i tellthem they will ask me to take it out.... if they her head upside down on the floor, they will surely tell me to take it to the vet.

will i have to hand feed her..this is something i wont be able to do... i am very busy person


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## wahegurubol (Oct 1, 2007)

Pidgey said:


> The worst one that I had spent about a month or so having to be fed by hand because she couldn't eat and she had her head upside down on the floor of the cage most of the time, especially when we walked in the room. She got better.
> 
> Pidgey


Is this bird going to do the same ?  

i also read on the internet the bird can go into complete paralysis.. if this happens then what?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

The bird that I'm talking about was in absolutely horrible shape when I found her, complete with an ulcerated gastrointestinal tract. She couldn't eat anything for the first couple of weeks that I had her and then got better. It was only after that when the neurological symptoms began to present. So, I had to feed her for a couple of weeks, then she fed herself for three weeks or so and then I had to take over again for awhile.

It's unlikely that your bird is going to as bad as that seeing as how the neurological symptoms are presenting now while the bird's in pretty good shape. Mine was pretty thin for quite awhile before she even started putting weight back on and the poop was horribly messy throughout most of it.

I can't speak from personal experience with a bunch of PMV birds but I'd say that it's more likely that your bird is just going to be a messy eater for awhile. Sometimes, you just have to wait and see and hope. Take it day by day and stop worrying so much about it. The other one that I had just did a little seed tossing and tended to overcontrol while attempting to fly for a few weeks. Come to think of it, I had another for awhile that also had pretty mild symptoms. I caught it on my hot tub cover outside trying to eat. It was pecking too hard and tossing seeds, too. That one made a complete recovery after a couple of months but I never had to feed it by hand. So, I've had two that didn't need it.

Pidgey


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## wahegurubol (Oct 1, 2007)

hi it is 9 pm .. i checked the bird. it isjust sitting by itself not moving...but it seemed calm, but its not making those head movements.

then i checked after few hours again....a fter 9pm and it had its head turn to the right, slight , unnoticeable movements of the neck.

it pains me to hear about diseases like PMV... such a disease is more horrific than some of themost horrific diseases that humans.... by the way if the bird does recover will it be flying? and will it develop immunity so that it doesnt get the disease again?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

They generally recover from just the neurological symptoms real well. My impression is that the other stuff is the worse presentation. There's another member on here that had a few die early on and the survivors who demonstrated the symptoms that you're describing did so after the others had already died. I've read that infection conveys lifetime immunity.

Pidgey


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## wahegurubol (Oct 1, 2007)

hi is it sure that the pigeon doesnt have bird flu, i heard bird flu can also do the twisted head movements.


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Pigeons are NOT carriers of the bird flu.

Your pigeon is showing the signs OF P.M.V.

Have you read anything that Cyro has sent you?


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

The statistics so far accumulated on bird flu virus and pigeons reflect a natural
resistance to the virus for pigeons. While they have apparently contracted the
virus when it was introduced artificially into the nasal cavity in much larger concentrations 
than a bird would be exposed to under normal circumstances,
between 60-80% of the pigeons did not become infected at all. Regarding the
pigeons thought to have died from birdflu in Thailand, it is thought by many to
be the synergistic result of concurrent exposure to another pathogen.

At any rate, either viral or bacterial infection is most likely at the bottom of the
symptoms that you are witnessing. Hopefully you will take some time to read 
some of the articles that Cynthia posted for you and you will feel better about
helping this unfortunate pigeon out. They are less of a health hazard than
other common pets according to a chart at Merck's on-line vet manual.

fp


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## wahegurubol (Oct 1, 2007)

*The droppings of pigeon has changed*

hi the dropping of pigeons has changed..they look more dark black and they are worm-shaped, snaky in style...have a look ...
also do the nails of the bird need to be trimmed or can i bring an abrasive paper and leave it in cage.

have a look at this from PMV http://www.chevita.com/tauben/behandlung-englisch/specificinfections_paramyxovirus.htm
and this for salmonellois http://www.chevita.com/tauben/behandlung-englisch/digestivetract_salmonellosis.htm


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## wahegurubol (Oct 1, 2007)

Pigeons test positive to bird flu exposure
By Samantha Selinger-Morris
October 21, 2005
Page Tools

* Email to a friend
* Printer format
*
*

One hundred and two pigeons exposed to the bird flu virus have been seized by Australian quarantine inspectors.

Inspectors said three of the birds, which were imported from Canada, had tested positive to bird flu antibodies and would be put down.

A spokesman for the Australian Quarantine and Inspection Service, David Finlayson, said the birds posed "no risk to human health, no risk to bird life because quarantine facilities are a high- security, purpose-built facility designed for this very purpose".

He stressed that the birds did not have the disease.

The birds arrived in Melbourne last month and were put into quarantine for testing. The diagnosis was confirmed "some days ago". A highly contagious strain of avian influenza, H7, was found on a farm in Canada last year.

The federal Minister for Health, Tony Abbott, who this week said he was considering vaccinating Australia against bird flu, would not comment on the incident, saying it was a quarantine issue.
AdvertisementAdvertisement

The chief veterinary officer, Gardner Murray, said last night the incident was not Australia's first brush with bird flu.

All NSW councils have been asked to identify possible sites to dispose of dead birds and to plan their response in the event of a bird flu outbreak in Australia


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

The poop looks consistent with some descriptions of PMV.

That strain of avian flu isn't the one the epidemiologists are worried about affecting mankind, I think. All the hype has been about the H5N1 strain, I think:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H5N1

Pidgey


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## ronhoward (Mar 16, 2007)

*Possible pPMV-1...*

Just a note, the bird you video taped does not look like a pPMV-1 diseased bird, it has the same flight charastics, but does not "hang its head" nor does it walk around in continous circles (both are common). It could also be from simple starvation - not enough muscle tissue to be able to fly straight and level. More like a wing problem (see Phils message above). If you "donate" this pigeon to someone without pPMV-1 experience, they will simply euthanize it..period, end of story. They don't take the time or patience to see the pigeon through to recovery - it takes too long for their operational requirements. Where do you live (city and state)?? Perhaps one of us can take him in until he recovers, or becomes housebound. Recovery can take a long time, I had one for over a year before beginning a generally normal flight habit again, others have taken 4-6 months. pPMV-1 can be given to humans, but it shows up as a slightly elevated fever, much the same as you would notice in the beginning stages of a flu bug (which it is). It isn't deadly to humans nor pigeons, it attacks their nervous system which usually causes starvation (through an inability to see and "catch" the food they need), then death. I haven't seen any creditable studies showing it is harmful to humans, only the typical scare tactic of inhaliation problems due to breathing pigeon poop dust. Ron Howard, Avian Rescue Corp (dba Cockatiel Rescue). I'm located in New Mexico (505)899-5979


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> but does not "hang its head" nor does it walk around in continous circles (both are common).


Hi Ron,

That is what I said when I saw the video , but if you read further down the thread (post 6) you will find that it actually does spin in circles and twist its neck.

Wahegurubol is in Kuwait.

Cynthia


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## wahegurubol (Oct 1, 2007)

Hi ! as far as I can recall. I have seen it walking in circles 3 or 4 times usually when its dark. I have provided a very large cage for this bird. The cage can accomodate a good enough of 4 or 5 hamsters. The cage is about 1m x 50 cm... and is about 50-55 cm high. The bird can flap its wing, run around do what it likes.

Yes I have seen it twisting its head.. the most horrific was when I saw it turn its head completely to the back .. 90 degree looking at the sky and then a full 180 degree back twist..but it was standing, but i saw it doing this extreme turn only one time. Sometimes it twists it neck around in the air as if something little insect is flying around it.

It does make a lot of mess of the place it eats... here is how it eats
It pinches its beak in the food and with great force pulls its head out of the eating bowl making the eyes face the ceiling of the cage and then it goes back again into the eating bowl. 

The poo of the bird has changed... please look at the pic, it is dark black poo , noodle type.

I had shown it to the vet and he said no fracture he even massaged the wings while the bird sat quietly.

There was a time when I put the bird on a book and holding it about 5 feet high from the ground I let the bird jump from the book and the bird came spiralling down... *not somersaulting as (head down , feet up)*...but spiralling down just as a drill bit would spiral making a hole in something.... or you can say just a helicopter rotor would be spinning. So you just imagine a pigeon sitting on top of a helicopter rotor and then you see how it would spin..thats exactly how it comes spinning down on the ground. It doesnt land hard, it lands softly flapping its wings , so it doesnt get hurt.

The other time when I made the video.. this bird tried to take-off from the sofa cushion, the moment it had its feet in the air it landed straight on the head. Just imagine you were riding a bicycle and all of a sudden you hit the front wheel brakes and you would fall on the head. This was exactly the same motion that the bird did. It took off with its wings flapping and suddenly it had its head touching the ground.

Well so thats all I have noticed so far and the best detail i can describe. I hope that some of you can help me what do with it. Yes certainly if I give the bird to the vet they will ethunaize it.

Is it possible to ship this bird to the USA , I will be willing to pay the shipping charges as long as they are reasonable or perhaps we can divide. We do have DHL and Fedex here. Iam afraid that a disease bird wont be let inside USA or perhaps not even be allowed to get into the plane. let me know.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Importing birds is kinda' difficult. Illness isn't allowed through from my understanding and they have to go through a quarantine period at a special station. I think it also costs some real money, too.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

By the way, PMV symptoms tend to phase in and out. What that means for diagnostic purposes is that actual symptoms at any given point in time through the course of the disease will change in frequency and severity and they also vary from pigeon to pigeon. My worst one did the seed-tossing for at least a week before the torticollis (neck twisting) hit really hard.

Most pigeons will throw seeds out of a seed bowl where there's more food there than they're going to eat for the day. They'll throw stuff out looking for the things they like the most. However, when they're doing real seed-tossing associated with PMV, they'll throw seeds quite a long ways, as far as three meters or so. You can watch them trying to eat and see the difference. With the healthy but picky bird, it'll just sweep its beak through the seeds with a quick flick and then look for what it wants. With the other it's an accelerated pecking motion that's just plain out of control. 

Pidgey


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## wahegurubol (Oct 1, 2007)

so what do i make of my bird.. is it pmv or something else or salmonosella , i have even posted pics of the poo.. i know something iswrong from the pics of the poo, cos thats not what it is suppose tolook like.

no this bird doesnt throw seeds 3meters out..but it really pecks in the bowl real hard....u know how ducks fight with their beaks,the same way.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

wahegurubol said:


> hi the dropping of pigeons has changed..they look more dark black and they are worm-shaped, snaky in style...have a look ...
> also do the nails of the bird need to be trimmed or can i bring an abrasive paper and leave it in cage.
> 
> have a look at this from PMV http://www.chevita.com/tauben/behandlung-englisch/specificinfections_paramyxovirus.htm
> and this for salmonellois http://www.chevita.com/tauben/behandlung-englisch/digestivetract_salmonellosis.htm


From the pictures, it looks closer to Salmonellosis, but pictures don't always capture the full story and even though that's a great site, I hate relying only
on pics of droppings. 

You can leave a brick in the cage for an abrasive for the toenails. They like
to perch on them. 

Regarding testing positive for antibodies, that means that the birds were exposed to the virus, that's all. Pigeons have been pretty much ruled out
thus far as a vector of the virus.

fp


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## wahegurubol (Oct 1, 2007)

feralpigeon said:


> From the pictures, it looks closer to Salmonellosis, but pictures don't always capture the full story and even though that's a great site, I hate relying only
> on pics of droppings.
> 
> You can leave a brick in the cage for an abrasive for the toenails. They like
> ...


if it is salmonellosis then i can also get infected na, what should i do?


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

wahegurubol, you have a bird who is not well, but the chances of you contracting anything from the bird when practicing REASONABLY good
hygiene are zip....nada. I have had sick birds in every room here except 
the kitchen and washing hands, bagging and tossing cage liners, and 
wasing utensils used in a sick bird's care w/beach and water solution of
1/2 cup bleach to a gallon of water was enough to keep anything from 
spreading to other birds or myself (when applicable).

No lab means we are looking at symptoms long distance over the internet
and from that a list of possibilities/probablilities is drawn. I'm saying the 
droppings look closer to that of the Salmonellosis pictures at the Chevita site, but the behavior in the video doesn't match the birds that I've taken home w/obvious classical symptoms for Salmonellosis. Just so that we are clear.
Your new friend isn't a health hazard to you or your family, I think you can
be reassured or rest assured on that issue.

fp


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> From the pictures, it looks closer to Salmonellosis, but pictures don't always capture the full story


Believe me, I am 99.999 % certain that this is PMV not salmonellosis.

It is impossible to make any diagnosis by looking at the poops , although the vet suggested that on the balance of probabilities one of my rescues that was passing a cup of watery poops in a few hours had PMV...he was right.

The complete clinical picture points to PMV . Although there are neurological symptoms that salmonellosis shares with PMV , they do not include spinning in circles or seed tossing, which is what this pigeon is doing.

This is from Dr Wim Peter's book "Fit to Win" and describes the nervous form of salmonellosis:

"..._loss of balance, torticollis (twisting of the neck) and other bizarre reactions. Most often the pigeon will be seen lying on its breastbone with the neck twisted and gazing upward (stargazing).

Abnormal movements include: continuous circular movements of the head and neck, head held to one side, head held forward and down between the legs of pulled back between the shoulders so far that the bird falls backwards or convulsions. "_

And this is his description of the nervous symptoms of paramyxovirus :

_"..fine tremor of the head...various degrees of torticollis, circling, staggering, leg or wing lameness, somersaults on attempting to fly, pecking at food and missing"_


Cynthia


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Quote:
From the pictures, it looks closer to Salmonellosis, but pictures don't always capture the full story....

Thought I said it didn't resemble Salmonellosis symptomatically in the 
video? 

fp


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

Hello Wahegurubol,

You won't be able to legally ship the bird anywhere. Most countries want only healthy animals. They will insist on a quarantine period long enough for symptoms of illness to show up, and if the animal is sick they probably kill it and incinerate the remains. Scientists can ship lab specimens of diseases under very strict conditions, and need licenses or official permissions to do so. I worked in the import/export business for some years, and had to study up on shipping requirements for dangerous goods (chemical, biological, radioactive). Wasn't involved in the really dangerous stuff in significantly large quantities, so my knowledge wasn't and didn't have to be comprehensive.

In your video I noticed the pigeon does not use its tail. (I've been involved with pigeons having tail problems lately). I concur with Cynthia that it seems to be PMV.

I took care of two PMV pigeons (*Mr Fifty* and *Wieteke* last year). (I must also state that these are my diagnoses, not based on a vet's opinion or on lab work). Both recovered and live outdoors with the other street pigeons. I hand-fed both peas and corn and roasted soybeans (pigeon feed mix). This kept the feeding time to a minimum, and meant minimum stress for them. I would count o make sure each got twenty or so large seeds two or three times a day, plus water. (Not going into details here on probiotics, ACV Apple Cider Vinegar in water, oyster grit, other vitamin supplements).

I kept them both *calm and quiet*. I kept Mr. Fifty in a small pet carrier. He couldn't move around much for a few days, and didn't have to pay attention to his surroundings to make sure he was safe. 

He had his safe territory. He was able to use all his energy and resources on recovering. Had an electric heating pad which he could move on or off of. 

I held Mr. Fifty a lot in my cupped hands the first few days, and used a small toothbrush to groom his head and neck feathers. When they are sick, some like that. 

I had Mr. Fifty indoors for five weeks. Wieteke, my rescued-as-a-baby and hand-raised pigeon, recovered quickly. So did Mr. Fifty. 

The main points I focused on was keeping them calm, quiet, feeling safe, feeding them enough (they could drink out of a small jar of water with an inch or two, or three or four centimeters of water in it, small enough so they couldn't get into it and drown. 

In these two cases, food and rest did the trick. Clean water, warmth, liquid vitamins for pigeons.

I did a lot of posts in these forums on "Mr. Fifty," or "Mister Fifty."

I have always been more leery about my pigeons catching something from me or other humans, than from me catching something from pigeons. 

If they feel relatively safe around you, and cared for by you, that is half the battle. If you feel a lot of fear and anxiety, they will pick up on it. They can't afford to use all of their energy and resources on being afraid of getting hurt when you are around. I hum to myself, or coo to them, when handling them. Low, soft sounds. They need lots of reassurance and love. Lots of it.

Good luck,

Larry


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## wahegurubol (Oct 1, 2007)

cyro51 said:


> Believe me, I am 99.999 % certain that this is PMV not salmonellosis.
> 
> It is impossible to make any diagnosis by looking at the poops , although the vet suggested that on the balance of probabilities one of my rescues that was passing a cup of watery poops in a few hours had PMV...he was right.


Okay, let me bring to notice. The first very first day I brought the pigeon in my car, the moment it say in my car it excreted a watery white color poop, it was totally liquid and it was whitecolor.





cyro51 said:


> "..._loss of balance, torticollis (twisting of the neck) and other bizarre reactions. Most often the pigeon will be seen lying on its breastbone with the neck twisted and gazing upward (stargazing)._


_

Yes the Pigeonis doing this, but it doesnt lye on its breastbone, most of the time it is standing on the feet. ive never seen it fall or lye down.



cyro51 said:



Abnormal movements include: continuous circular movements of the head and neck, head held to one side, head held forward and down between the legs of pulled back between the shoulders so far that the bird falls backwards or convulsions. "

Click to expand...

_Yes it keepts its head towards the right direction most of the time and then moves it...rotates it.

And this is his description of the nervous symptoms of paramyxovirus :



cyro51 said:


> _"..fine tremor of the head...various degrees of torticollis, circling, staggering, leg or wing lameness, somersaults on attempting to fly, pecking at food and missing"_
> 
> 
> 
> Cynthia


if by tremor you mean shivering..i havent noticed any, but fine rotations and twisting of both heads and neck ave seen. it walks in circles and spins like a helicopter rotor when it flies .... and it makes a mess out of the place it eats.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

wahegurubol said:


> .... and it makes a mess out of the place it eats.


They tend to be messy eaters in addition to whatever may be going on w/their
health.

fp


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## KIPPY (Dec 18, 2003)

> *but i am very scared looking at this pigeon...*


I know how you feel, I was totally freaked when I got Daytona (possible PMV). It took awhile but to look at Daytona now you would never know he has any issues.

I have another Malachi, still freakes me out but is doing better. It takes time.

Just a thought but maybe you should just leave him in the cage for awhile until he get established, comfortable with his surroundings. Letting him out walking around and trying to get him to fly may be more stress then he needs.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

KIPPY said:


> Just a thought but *maybe you should just leave him in the cage for awhile until he get established, comfortable with his surroundings. Letting him out walking around and trying to get him to fly may be more stress then he needs.*


I agree 100%. 

I also agree with Cynthia about being 99.999% certain that the bird in the video does indeed have PMV.

If the bird is flipping about from time to time & not totally steady on his feet, I'm not sure placing a brick in the cage would be to the bird's advantage, at this point anyway. The less confusion presented the better.

Cindy


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

AZWhitefeather said:


> If the bird is flipping about from time to time & not totally steady on his feet, I'm not sure placing a brick in the cage would be to the bird's advantage, at this point anyway. The less confusion presented the better.
> 
> Cindy


Agreed on that. I had to take Second Chance's brick out for a few weeks because she'd go into some fits at times. When she got over it, the brick went back in and she started perching again.

Pidgey


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## wahegurubol (Oct 1, 2007)

*update on the pigeon*

this is an update on the pigeon.
Today for the whole day it did not show any symptom. It was relatively calm, quiet all by itself , and it ate well and fast.

I brought a brick and put it in the cage and for now almost 5 hours and more it is still sitting straight on that brick  whats going on ?


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Where Central Nervous Symptoms are concerned, they (symptoms) are significantly reduced by keeping a bird quiet with out stimulation. The interuption to its' normal Central Nervous Symptom function is enough of a challenge for the bird w/out other stimulus. By the way, how are you offering water to this bird?

fp


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

It is feeling comfortable and unstressed.

I have a PMV pigeon in a fage beside me at the moment. If it is undisturbed it can go for hours without showing symptoms. If it is frightened then the symptoms become very apparent.

Cynthia


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## wahegurubol (Oct 1, 2007)

*Update on the Pigeon*

Here is a little update on the pigeon. I havent been seeing it a lot for the past few days.

but today when I opened the cage to check on it. I saw that there were some white feathers like in the cage. The half filled bowl of water was completely empty, it had drank all the water, eaten all the food.....The Pigeon was not showing any symptoms.

The way I feed it water is by putting some water in a bowl which holds water about an 7-8 cm deep.

Let me know what u think, today was the first time I saw some of its short feathers lying in the cage, and they were white... what could all this mean, is it ready to fly now.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi wahegurubol,

It would be good to know if the feathers you saw came from non-specific
areas as in a moult or if they came from the same approximate spot on the
bird. Maybe you could look the bird over? They normally need their food and water bowls tended to daily for the reason that you discovered that they can empty and we would be unaware if not checking in. Folks are generally cautious about the amount of water left in the bowl when Central Nervous System symptoms are being displayed and in the case of PMV specifically as 
it's possible for the bird to be episodal and drown in the water bowl, so shallow water bowls and checking frequently w/out disturbing unless necessary is a good idea. If you aren't checking in daily, it's hard to know from that one instance of checking in after however long w/out food and water, how the bird is really doing. In general, the pigeon would need more time for rest and recuperation than just this brief period of time although it is great for starters. Thanks for your update.

fp


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

wahegurubol said:


> Here is a little update on the pigeon.
> 
> * *I havent been seeing it a lot for the past few days.*
> 
> ...


Thanks for posting an update on your bird.  

* It's very important that you check on him every single day & probably several times a day. You don't need to disturb him by opening the cage door, but you do need to check to make sure he has water & food. *Water especially.* His water needs to be changed every day & fresh food needs to be given every day as well. Do you have any grit for him?

What do his dropppings look like? 

** It's possible some of the fallen feathers could be from preening. 

Cindy


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

AZWhitefeather said:


> ....
> 
> ** It's possible some of the fallen feathers could be from preening.
> 
> Cindy


Yes, I was wondering about the feathers as well. Would be good to know
more.

fp


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## wahegurubol (Oct 1, 2007)

what i meant to say was that i havent checked him several times a day, but once in 24 hours i changed its food and water supply and the newspapers on which it does the dropping, so i spend about 15 minutes daily with the pigeon.

today i had found small white feathers all over the cage...what does preening mean?


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

wahegurubol said:


> * *what i meant to say was that i havent checked him several times a day, but once in 24 hours i changed its food and water supply* and the newspapers on which it does the dropping, so i spend about 15 minutes daily with the pigeon.
> 
> today i had found small white feathers all over the cage...
> ** *what does preening mean?*


* If, when you check on your bird, you find his water & food dishes empty, then you need to check on him more often. His water dish should never be completely empty.

** They are grooming themselves. Kind of like when we comb our hair.  
If you find lots of feathers, he may be molting, which means they loose some of their feathers naturally & is quite normal.

Here's a picture of what one area of my aviary looks like when my birds are molting. 
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7224&d=1190523918

Cindy


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

In addition to the reasons for feather loss that Cindy noted, there can
also be a localized inflamation that can cause a very specific area to loose
feathers rapidly. You would normally notice something visually on the
bird askew if this were the case. 

Do you notice your bird "preening" (attending to his feathers) throughout the
day? 

fp


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## wahegurubol (Oct 1, 2007)

*Todays update on the Pigeon*

Just wanted to let you know the updates :

1)Last night when I checked the pigeon it was standing on the brick on one leg.
2)It eats a lot , a lot of seed, finishes the bowl very quickly and drinks a lot too...
3)It has become very active, is not walking in circle and not even rotating its neck now.
4)It sometimes flaps its wing when it stands on the brick.

Is it ready to fly and to be released to the wild? Should I keep the cage open so that it can go whenever it likes?


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## wahegurubol (Oct 1, 2007)

feralpigeon said:


> I
> Do you notice your bird "preening" (attending to his feathers) throughout the
> day?
> 
> fp


No I ddidnt notice it, but when I give it a bath it always scratches its body with its beak and since you told me it has PMV, i have stopped giving it bath.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Don't release the bird quite yet, please. It's best to give the bird some
more time and observe. Keep a close eye over the weekend and just 
check in and let us know how the bird is doing. Are there any more
piles of small feathers?

fp


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## wahegurubol (Oct 1, 2007)

You can have a look a he new post please where I have addded two videos of how this pigeon is eating.


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