# Use Baytril...or another antibiotic?



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I was reading "Fit to win" by Dr Wim Peters yesterday. 

He says


> "Baytril is not recommended for daily use as it is one of the few and possibly the best, antibiotic for use against Paratyphoid. Repeated or uncalled for use of Baytril can cause germ resistance against the antibiotic and a very useful drug will have become inefficient. *Baytril must be reserved for use in Salmonella infections only.*"


He also mentions that cross-resistance is found within the quinolone group which includes Enrofloxacin (Baytril), Danofloxacin (Advocin) and Norfloxacin (Quinabic SP).

I know that often we have little choice, but where there is a choice I think that this warning should be heeded.

Cynthia


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

What do we use instead? In many cases we don't have a diagnosis and Baytril being pretty broad spectrum it seems like a good choise. I guess we would have to use a combination of two antibiotics to cover most bugs?
But then again pretty much all antibiotics can cause resistance.

Reti


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I see your point, Reti.

It is the importance of preserving the effectiveness of Baytril for the fight against paratyphoid that Dr Peters is concerned about, rather than combating resistance to antibiotics in general. But we never know where the developing resistance of a particular bacterium to a specific antibiotic will lead...MRSA is a good example of that.

My own choice is usually restricted to Synulox and Baytril. I tend to use Synulox for wounds but Baytril for respiratory infections. I avoid using antibiotics if there is nothing to suggest infection, except in the case of cat contact because of the speed with which pasteurellosis can kill.

Cynthia


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I see. Does the same go for Cipro? I like to use Cipro as it is easier for me to obtain.
I like to use clavamox too for wounds, only thing is once you mix it you have to use it within two weeks and since my vet is gone I have trouble getting meds.
For respiratory infection we can also use doxy or tetracycline I guess.

Reti


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, it seems to me that the advice would really only apply to loft situations, wouldn't it? Isn't Dr. Peters a vet for the sake of flyers?

Pidgey


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> Well, it seems to me that the advice would really only apply to loft situations, wouldn't it?


Not quite certain what you mean. If a strain of the bacteria that causes paratyphoid becomes resistant to Baytril, then Baytril will be ineffective in the treatment of any pigeon that is infected with that strain of bacteria. Ultimately it affects feral rescues as much as flyers.

Cynthia


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Cynthia, as a general rule, we use Bactrim before Baytril on most rescues we get in simply because Baytril is so strong and I don't want any resistance to develop if I can help it. In case of wounds we automatically use Baytril.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I was reading a clinical publication on a study of long half-life antibiotics versus short half-life antibiotics with respect to the rise of resistant strains. There were several interesting points made but the one that struck me as the most fascinating was that the mutant, resistant strains created during the subclinical dosing were virtually all gone six months after the treatment period. 

I've always thought that when we flock-treat indiscriminately, we give rise to supercolonies that cannot be so easily overcome by the regular bugs. There is, afterall, a competition between the strains that tends to even them back out in time. By a supercolony, I mean that it's not only in the birds in the loft or poultry house, but in the dust, dirt, local mice and everything. I believe that's what we're trying to avoid and thus the most recent tightening of regulations with respect to the commercial use of quinolones.

Pidgey


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Thanks Maggie. Helen used to recommend Bactrim (I think its Co-Trim here, or maybe Septrim?), she used the paedeatric suspension, but then that became hard to get hold of. My vet has never offered it to me, but I might suggest it sometime so that I can have a supply in the house.

Cynthia


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

This is from Wikipedia:



> Antibiotic resistance is a consequence of evolution via natural selection. The antibiotic action is an environmental pressure; those bacteria which have a mutation allowing them to survive will live on to reproduce. They will then pass this trait to their offspring, which will be a fully resistant generation. Several studies have demonstrated that patterns of antibiotic usage greatly affect the number of resistant organisms which develop. Overuse of broad-spectrum antibiotics, such as second- and third-generation cephalosporins, greatly hastens the development of methicillin resistance. Other factors contributing towards resistance include incorrect diagnosis, unnecessary prescriptions, *improper use of antibiotics by patients*, and the use of antibiotics as livestock food additives for growth promotion.
> 
> Researchers have recently demonstrated the bacterial protein LexA may play a key role in the acquisition of bacterial mutations.[1]


_*I hang my head in shame!*_ When I was prescribed Amoxycillin for a whitlow I took one or two doses, but as soon as the pain went I forgot to take any more. By the time I remembered it was too late to complete the course, so I "hoarded" them for rescue emergencies.

Cynthia


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

cyro51 said:


> This is from Wikipedia:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You've got company--Lin's a bad one for doing that, too. I have to force her to finish an antibiotic course and she's worse than dosing a cat! Human mouths are much stronger than those of cats, even if the teeth don't look as nasty. Anymore, I use one of those extended pill holders for cattle since I had to have that reconstructive surgery done that time.

Pidgey


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