# Deliberate poison



## neilandmaria (Nov 18, 2003)

Hello again friends.

It seems like we have a problem on our hands. In one of the central squares in our town of Cartagena, SE.Spain which used to have a hundred or so happy pigeons walking around, there now remains only twenty or so left- one of which we found yesterday, weak, with thick saliva/foam at the mouth obstructing respiration and unable to walk, legs folded back behind his back. He died in my hands at our house before we could do any more for him.

One person in the square confirmed that the cleaners from the local town council had cleared away some 30 dead pigeons the day before which to me means they are actually poisoning the birds. There will soon be none left! 

We shall be reporting it to the Police, but it looks like to me that it is the same council who are doing this atrocity, but what we need to know for now is if, or rather when we find another bird in this state - is there anything we can do to clear the blockage/save the bird?

This is horrible

regards,
Neil and Maria - PS. The Pidgie with the hurt wing is fine and happy on the balcony feeling luckier than ever at the moment.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*Poisoning*

Hello,

I'm so sorry for these birds. These atrocities are going on everywhere and it is a great sin.

Those experienced with this kind of emergency will be along to help soon.

Thank you for your patience.

Treesa


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

That is so tragic, Neil!

Can you find out what type of poison they are using? Because of Reti's recent tragic experience we have a lot of information about Avitrol poisoning but it could be something else. 

I noticed from the petition that there is a lot of support coming from Spain, could you use that to stop further poisoning? Perhaps if the local authority was made aware that poisoning does not thin down the pigeon population for very long and just causes an additional health hazard? My local council used to poison pigeons and has decided that it is too costly and ineffective to continue.

Cynthia


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## neilandmaria (Nov 18, 2003)

Could be Avitrol. Will find out for sure soon as have another pigeon watcher keeping an eye. Also we aim to contact some groups, even PETA.org who are over here at the moment protesting about the cruelty of Bullfighting as well. I haven't seen any more poorly pigeons there for now though, but there are definitely less


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## Karen 210773 (Mar 17, 2004)

That is such a shame, I really don't know how I could stay calm in situations like that, really is a waste (pigeon's lives/time and money)  Good on you for helping and try and put an end to this, I'm sorry I can't suggest nothing about being to help them once you have found them in that state. My thoughts are with you - Take care - Karen x


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Is it possible to translate the petition into Spanish and send it to the town council, with anote telling them how many signatures there are so far and that there are people in Spain, also, who signed it. You could also mention that in the USA, a large newspaper is investigating the pigeon poisonings (just saw an email on that)

John


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Maria
The best treatment which can be given by a layperson for ingestion of toxic substance is a clean flush out of the system. However this will only work for those in early stages. Treatment is to tube water into the crop - a lot of water. By a lot I mean something like 10mls every 10 mins - or even more, and you keep giving water until the droppings run clear. This is what is called a forced flushing of the system. You give a lot more water than is needed by the bird, so the system has to rush it through and excrete it to avoid overload. In order to rush the excess water through the system it has to rush through what is already in the system as well. Consequently any toxic residue is flushed out before it has a chance to do deadly damage.


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## Evan Garris (Apr 26, 2004)

People anger me sometimes. Today at the wildlife centre I helped pull a pellet out of a crows wing........that crow will never fly again.....ever. People poison birds and animals left and right. Just the other day they demolished every tree on this tree where jays and crows and pigeons were nesting. I'm ranting. And changing the subject.......the only way to stop this is non violent protest.......say we're going to sit outside of city hall until this law is passed......its up to us the bird and animal lovers to change this. We live in a democrocy and we have the right to change laws. Its time to put a stop to this. This is cruel. When people over popluate do we poison them...? No. Why do it to defensless animals because they poop? We poop to don't we? I'm sick of this and its time to change it.......start protests......anything you can to stop this.


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## neilandmaria (Nov 18, 2003)

John_D said:


> Is it possible to translate the petition into Spanish


Taking exactly those steps to prepare something like that for them although the Police are interested and encourage me to file complaint which I will do supported by such documentation if I can. 
The word is it could be one person acting on behalf of who knows who.

Thanks Helen for your advice - we instinctively did exactly what you said (without knowing it at the time) although for the poor soul it was just too late. At least it passed away in my hands and very quietly. 
Thanks Karen for your words and Evan too. With people like all of you around something's got to give, sometime soon.  cheers, Neil.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Neil,

Thank you for all you did for this poor bird.

Evan, we do live in a democratic society, the problem is the animals don't! Pigeons especially!

We have to become nuisances to the govt, and expose everything in detail to the media, embarrass them enough, and then they will stop this insane poisening!

Treesa


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

This is just getting so insane. It's unbelievable.
I don't know what to say anymore.
I am so sorry for what those poor inocent babies have to go through.

Reti


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## birdlover000 (Aug 17, 2003)

*Tranlation*

Hey, will this help you guys? Here is the petition in Spainish:

A: los EE.UU. El alimento y Endroga la Administración (Dirección de Alimentos y Drogas de os E.E.U.U.); los EE.UU. Pesque y el Servicio de Fauna; Otras Autoridades y los Cuerpos para que el siguiente puede ser directamente pertinente En el 22 de junio, 2004, un cruel e innecesario mata de palomas fue iniciado en el 1550 complejo de Apartamentos de Brickell en Miami, la Florida. Sinceramente Nolen (directores de peste) fue comisionar por la
administración, las Propiedades Verdes, para exterminar las palomas con una substancia tóxica desconocida, posiblemente Avitrol. 

Un individuo que aceptó dos pájaros, esperando salvarlos, los informes:

‘Oí algún ruido que viene del portador que ellos estaban en…uno era al revés y empezado teniendo los ataquees. El dios, eso era tan horrible. Ella hacía los ruidos desgarradores. Llamé al veterinario en
seguida, él dijo traer el ahora.’ de pájaro

El rescatador procuró administrar una solución activada de carbón al pájaro, pero su pico se sujetó tan firmemente debido a los ataques, no se podría abrir. Esta paloma’la condición de s era crítica, el veneno causó el daño grave de riñon. El rescatador continúa:

‘Obtuve en casa agotado, del énfasis. Fui a verificar en el otro pájaro y lo encontró muerto. Yo no sé lo que sucedió a él. El era fino por cuatro horas y cuando dejamos él estuvo bien. Su compañero tuvo los ataquees dentro de dos horas de es la mirada de here….el en sus ojos es la mirada más desgarradora que vi jamás. La ayuda del dios nosotros todo, este mundo obtiene apenas ’ demasiado malo

Algunos hechos:

El control mortal de palomas no trae beneficio a largo plazo menos en lucrativo repite el negocio para directores de peste, desde que otros pájaros llenarán rápidamente el espacio que se ha dejado. Los frenos y las barreras humanos prevenir el acceso a posarse para dormir y los lugares que anidan son el método más efectivo del control, dando los resultados a largo plazo de un desembolso inicial. 

Los EE.UU. Los centros para el Control de la Enfermedad han indicado que el riesgo de cualquiera contratando una enfermedad de palomas en los EE.UU. es ‘muy raro,’ al contrario de las equivocaciones propagadas por el ignorante y ésos con un interés concedido a perpetuarlos. 

El pájaro envenena, como utilizado en el control de palomas, son no discriminatorio. Ellos pueden matar también la especie protegida de pájaro, otra fauna, los animales favoritos y – potencialmente - niños que pueden ingerir accidentalmente la substancia. En el encima del caso, una paloma había expulsado verdaderamente parte de la substancia dentro del rescatador’s en casa. Además, nestlings de orphaned morirá de hambre a la muerte - un destino inhumano - sin sus padres. 

El uso de Avitrol, específicamente, ha sido prohibido por la legislación del uso en la Ciudad de Nueva York. 

Nosotros, el abajofirmante, por lo tanto solicita las autoridades referidas para examinar de cerca la aplicación de tales métodos inhumanos del control de la paloma, con miras a prohibir el uso de substancias tóxicas para este propósito. 

Sinceramente,

El Abajofirmante


I hope it will help!!  Sorry to here about all this bad news!


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

*translation*

Hey, thanks Birdlover000! That's great - we have been talking about translations 'offline' and hey presto, there it is 

John


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## neilandmaria (Nov 18, 2003)

Thanks Birdlover000, but unfortunately the translation is not correct and it is rather riddled with errors.

Online translators are not much good for official use as they tend to translate all the verbs into the infinitive form and uses several "near miss" words that are close enough to the mother tongue to be automatically translated into something completely irrelevant and totally different!

If anyone needs anything done in Spanish in future just drop us a line. As it happens, we are preparing a legal document in Spanish to hand in with our complaint to the Police regarding this case which is more or less along these lines and will be featuring the mentioned petition. cheers, Neil


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Oh dear - full marks for the thought, tho 

John


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## neilandmaria (Nov 18, 2003)

Exactly- thanks for the efforts Birdlover000. Actually they are pretty useful reading reviews and for having a laugh if you know the real translation to cheer up this misery we are having a bit of with all these heavy issues. 

Somewhere in there it actually says in Spanish _"his partner had some attackers within two hours of that look in here..he in his eyes is the look most devasting I saw ever. The help of God us everybody, this world gets pity too bad."_


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

*Spanish Translations*

I understand what you mean, Neil, I was brought up to be bilingual English/Spanish , but even so a few years ago translated "There was a drawer in a desk" as "There was a box in a table"...unless you are living, reading and speaking a language every day it is easy to mistranslate a document particularly if you are dealing with an unfamiliar subject. However I think birdlover000 did very well, I didn't have the mental energy to even start that particular translation!

Cynthia


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## neilandmaria (Nov 18, 2003)

cyro51 said:


> ..However I think birdlover000 did very well, I didn't have the mental energy to even start that particular translation!


Absolutely. By the way, we might have a local paper here interested on this. They ran a story not long ago about their suspicions of poisoning pigeons and now we have evidence. 

Another of the dead birds found even had a ring on the left leg I believe- the number was the following.. black letters on a yellow background


AD 474 245 followed by FD above EC.

Any ideas who that could refer to?

cheers, Neil


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## xavior (Jul 14, 2004)

I'm curious to know how things are progressing in this battle to end the poisoning. On another post I suggested that the animal rights people get wind of this. Here's a link to a list of animal rights groups: http://www.greenpeople.org/animalrights.htm
I did a quick glance and didn't see any groups in Spain but contact some of the groups in Europe and see if they know where the nearest group is.. plus, animal rights are animals rights.. some groups outside of your country might still want to help or even start a group there.

Here in the Twin Cities we had a problem with both Saint Paul and Minneapolis (Minnesota, USA) using poison and/or netting to "control the pigeon population" and that caused an uproar with all of us animal rights people. The result was.. using Peregrine Falcons. The Falcons have been on the endanger species list so they introduced them to Minneapolis and it's been a success story, *for the falcons.*
http://www.riverwatchonline.org/project_falcon/restoration.html
http://birdcam.xcelenergy.com/riversidefalcon.asp

Of course, I don't like the idea of anyone killing the doves I love.. but if the government is going to use 'population control' then I'd prefer that they let "nature take it's course" with the falcons over humans poisoning or netting these wonderful birds. _It's still a horrible way to die_ (murder is murder) and I had a bit of a battle last summer with the falcons hunting in my neighborhood and backyard.. I stepped-in and saved a few of "my" rock doves from being falcon food. The falcons are just going to have to get their meals elsewhere because I consider my space a sanctuary, a safe place for the birds to feed and bath and rest. It's understandable that they'd want to feed on the doves who are getting decent food here than the ones trying to survive in the heart of downtown.

I guess what I'm saying is that you might not beable to change the mindset that 'there needs to be population control of the pigeons'. If that's the case, suggest that they let nature do the balancing. _I've heard that in NYC there's a man who brings his falcon to the areas where "too many" pigeons are gathering.. and he let's his falcon loose for a while. From what I gather, it's more of a scare tactic.. the falcon pretty much just flies around and that's enough to get the pigeons to move to another location for a while, so I don't think anyone ends up dying._


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I read that they also have a man let a falcon fly around Wimbledon to deter the pigeons from landing on the courts without killing them. I think it would finish me off to have a falcon feeding on my beloved flock and I wonder how they get them to distinguish between pigeons and protected species of smaller birds when choosing their next meal?

I know that reducing nesting sites, having artificial nesting boxes and replacing the eggs with plastic ones would reduce the pigeon population and keep it under control , but so few people can be bothered with the commitment to checking the nests that that would involve.

Cynthia


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## xavior (Jul 14, 2004)

*THAT'S WHAT I WANT TO DO.. THE FAKE EGG THING!* I'll get to those nests and plant them!!!! I suppose there would be a lot of political red tape entanglement involved. Has anyone heard of anyone making the attempt? I'll ask my local animal rights group.

I believe that the smaller birds are more difficult for the falcons to catch.. and the doves (rock and mourning) are "more of a meal." [yuck] The falcons are pretty good sized and,.. well, you probably don't want to hear how they kill their "prey" but let's just say that even if they caught a little bird, they'd have trouble killing it.


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## [email protected] (Jul 17, 2004)

*Idea*

If I were you, I wouldfo to where the pigeons are and try to catch as many as possible! Then you can take the ones you get home and keep them until you find somewhere safe. If someone tries to stop you tell them whats hapenning. If you don't have too much success catching pigeons as I always say, "It's better to save one life than none." Anyways this is what I did when there was a group of pigeons being terrorized by teenagers (throwing stuff at them every day). I did get some pigeons and put them with a different group of them in another part of town. Anyways depending on where you live it could be sorta risky.
Well it's hard with these situations, you cant do much.
PS-There was a lady in Victoria Canada who did this with rabbits, because they were poisening them and she took them all transported them and kept a couple (she took over 200 with her turck and 20 crates! Thats determination!
Keep Posted


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## neilandmaria (Nov 18, 2003)

Hi and thanks for the replies and interest. Things are slightly better, as the word has spread about what has been happening and the papers have picked up on the story with a frown. There have not been many more sightings of poisoned pigeons and the numbers are returning and rising, taking their place probably. Still, people are aware and are looking out for whoever is doing this. So far so good and fingers crossed that's the end of it. cheers, Neil.


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## neilandmaria (Nov 18, 2003)

neilandmaria said:


> Another of the dead birds found even had a ring on the left leg I believe- the number was the following.. black letters on a yellow background
> 
> 
> AD 474 245 followed by FD above EC.


Anyone find out where this bird could have belonged to, by the way?


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

*banded Pigeon*

Tried to find where bands could be identified, but no luck on the web. 

Only thing I found was

Real Federacion Colombofila Espanola
Eloy Gonzalo 34
28010 Madrid

But it might well be that it was a band with a specific fancier's code, rather than a club code being incorporated

John


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## neilandmaria (Nov 18, 2003)

Thanks John. Will follow it up, poor soul nearly made it but didn't quite.


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## Sweetie (Sep 15, 2004)

I saw something like that in the winter of 2000. Our transmission went out on our van.
We had to check our email to we had to walk to the library in Farmington Hills, Michigan. We were walking on the sidewalk and we saw 13 pigeons dead on the other side of the sidewalk, they were at one time healthy Feral Pigeons. Some were uniquely
marked. I told my husband that it was unusual to me that 13 pigeons would be in the same area dead. I notice some business cards on the sidewalk. They were poisoned by exterminators. These pigeons were treated like they were pests. You know as well as I know pigeons are not pests. My husband is against this also. We reported it to trouble-shooter on the Local ABC News and the next 2 days after that the pigeons were cleaned up and you didn't see anymore dead pigeons. But sadly but true it is happening all the time. I hope that it can be stopped soon.


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## pigeon george (Aug 7, 2003)

*dont forget the dec/epa*

you would be surprissed at how much poisioning goes on that in fact is not legal always contact dec first as i work for An Airline in ny who was poisoning in new york till i explained the fines they would get from dec funny how they decided to put up nets to keep them out instead of facing stiff penalties


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## neilandmaria (Nov 18, 2003)

Hi guys again. Well we put a stop to that! There has been no repeat of this exercise and it looks like there won't be either- The City Council know that there are several people complaining about the treatment and are now keeping a close beedy eye on their activities backed up by the local press who know what went on although they have put up signs instead which say "don't feed the pigeons" -Ha!

Our pij with the broken wing is fine. Stronger and more stunning by the day


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