# Pedigree breeding



## sam511 (Feb 3, 2012)

How often do you think mated hens are bred by other cocks in the loft? Am I correct in assuming that the only way to be absolutely positive about the parentage is to confine the pair to a breeder cage?


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## ThePigeonShack (Jun 14, 2012)

*Proving your pedigrees....*

You are correct in order to have a verified pedigreed bird it would have to come from a confined pair of birds. And I would even add that their first clutch might be questionable as to whether the eggs come from the cock bird in the coop. if the eggs were laid soon after they were paired.


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

I guess due to the same reason people throw the first clutches

Confined places are to keep the pair focused on breeding, i doubt if it has anything to do with other cocks


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

* Never throw away the first clutch,train them and race them. If they are any good they will show it. I never got rid of a bird until they flew in the old bird races. Flying young birds was training for old bird racing. I was an old bird racer and I liked the long races. * GEORGE


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## hamlet (Oct 26, 2004)

I am thinking if you do what G. Simon says, and the young are good, then how can you reproduce similar birds again when the parentage is at question? Thanks.


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

I dont know but people do that, specially when the hen is young and if its her first clutch

BTW one of hen laid 2 days ago and it was a small one i have to throw it


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## nancybird (Jan 30, 2011)

Those are nice looking birds.


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## Revolution Lofts (Aug 7, 2008)

Your correct in the sense that in order to be 100% sure of the parentage they should be confined to individual breeding pens.

I believe there is no reason to throw away the first round of eggs when both the males and females have been separated for months at a time (during the non-breeding season). However, it might be a smart thing to do if both genders have been together before you put them in individual pens because there is a chance of a cock breeding with numerous hens. 

I used a open loft situation this past year, even my nest boxes didn't have a door which I could use to lock them up in and pair them up. So in 2012 I had zero control of what breeding occurred in the loft. I did lock some birds up that had not paired up with any other birds, but that was only because there were no other available birds left in the loft so I just picked and chose and paired them up with whoever.

In 2013, I'm taking a completely different approach because I want to competitively start competing and use my young age and energy to my advantage.

I've built 10 individual breeding pens inside of my loft (doors still need to be made, but boxes have been made). Right now my cocks and hens are split up and have been split up since around June. They'll be split up until December and paired up mid-January. I'm going to pair up all of the birds how I want them to be paired up and keep detailed records on each pairs health, health of the ybs, and quality of youngsters in training and racing. At the end of the season I will only keep the pairs who remained healthy (no serious illnesses, minor ones are common here and there), whose babies were healthy, whose babies were easy to train (Smart birds), and whose babies performed the best. The rest will be gone. Out of the 10 pairs I have right now, I plan to keep only 6, maybe 7 pairs.

Sorry for hijacking your thread but what I'm trying to get at is that in order to get the "best of the best" you need to really take control over your breeding and steer it into the right direction. I think if you have the time, you should really use individual breeding pens, they'll definitely help you in the future!


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

I also have a open loft system, still have and breeding since last two years no parentage problems, if you are pairing them up then introduce into the open loft then they wont have a problem but if they are pairing up on their own there are chances of parentage problems

Intial clutch is thrown for the same reason to curtail any chances of having eggs from the previous cock bird otherwise if you are sure there is no need for that

Separete cages are always better and safer for the pedigree


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## Shan (Feb 4, 2012)

Interesting questions; good comments. The only facts I have at hand are those offered by J.W. Quinn in The Pigeon Breeder's Notebook: An Introduction to Pigeon Science, 1971, p 111. Joe states that the rates from his study in 1967 were 12-17% in open nests, 6-8% in nests w/ shelves, and 2-3% in what he called "sheltered nests" (I'll call them nest fronts). And he thinks these rates are under representing the true numbers in his study lofts. I'll leave the rest to your individual imaginations. I only write pedigrees for birds bred in my indvidual pens, period.


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## Pijlover (May 5, 2010)

Okay, i never had that info before, problem is all my breeding pairs look alike


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## Shan (Feb 4, 2012)

Those illegitimacy rates are eye openers. Best way to test them is to add ONE red check cock into a loft full of blue bars, blue checkers, etc. Then wait to see what pops up in the nests. I'm too old for that; I'll accept Joe's rates and my own experience with pigeons. "Don't trust 'em!" LOL. Good luck with your pigeons.


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