# Scatt or Ivermectin?



## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

Hi again 
Can you guys tell me which is better, Scatt or Ivermectin? my male pigeon has been itchy for a while now, I have tried sevin powder several times, spraying his roosting area with mite & lice spray from the pet store, I even sprayed that thing on him and then gave him a bath (which I regret doing!), but he is still itchy!

He does not have feather lice (the one that makes the tiny holes on the feathers) so it must be something else but I don't know what it is. He scratches a lot and sometimes he even shakes his legs like trying to get rid of it. He also grunts while scratching, sounds like he is mad at it too! He has also chewed the tip of his tail feathers. 

My female was NOT itchy, but once they started to hang together she got itchy too! she bathes a lot though so that helps, but sometimes she gets so itchy that she does all the things I described above, except the tail chewing.

So what do you guys think it's better for those symptoms? Scatt or Ivermectin? I also want to use the safer one. Safety is the most important thing for me, I don't want to put something too strong on them that might kill them or make them sick. I called a pigeon feed store and they recommended Avio Endo/Ekto which is Ivermectin, but I wanted to check with you guys first.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

It's really hard to say which is better. Some use one, and some use the other. People are going to like what it is that they use. The Endo/Ekto come in drops and tablets, so do you know which one he was referring to?


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

Thanks Jay, I forgot to mention the Endo/Ekto they recommended come in drops. They said 2 drops behind the neck.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Well both work, so not really sure which one would be more effective. Probably 6 of one, half dozen of another.


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

ok thank you! and are they both safe?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes they are both safe.


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

Ok great! I'll get the Ivermectin then since I want to order some "pigeon candy" from that pigeon supply store. Thank you for the help, Jay


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You can mix your own pigeon candy. I used to have a list of the different seeds. Wouldn't be hard to find though.


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## cwebster (Dec 11, 2010)

What is pigeon candy and where do you get it?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

It's just a mix of canary seed and some other seeds that they like but don't normally get.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Here is the recipe for it. I'm sure there must be others out there.


INGREDIENTS:
CANARY SEED, WHITE MILLET, RED MILLET, CANOLA SEED, SAFFLOWER, FLAX SEED, RICE, BUCKWHEAT, HEMP SEED.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Here is Foy's recipe.

Canary seed, white millet, red millet, rape seed, flax, safflower, rice, soy oil and orange extract.

Pigeon Candy 10 lbs. 

These are things you can mix yourself. It's for a treat. Exact amounts aren't really important. Leave some things out or add some. You can mix your own recipe.


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

I never thought I could make my own!! thanks so much for posting the recipe Jay!!

cwebster, they are just tiny seeds I give them as treat! they love it!! my male pigeon goes crazy for it, he actually stands next to his food bowl cooing until I put some in his food!! lol


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

Jay, I still haven't bought the Ivermectin. For some reason I get nervous using any of these medications lol I'm scared that something can go wrong! Do you know if either one of these products have any side effects? like vomiting, etc? thanks again for the help!


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*I have used Scatt and never ever had any problems, it is least invasive, but does the job. Just follow instructions carefully. *


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## wiggles and puddles (Sep 3, 2015)

I can tell you that ivermectin in general does not stay in an animals system very long. For a horse it is about 24 hours, so if you ask your vet you could see how long it stays in a pigeons system, and if there is anything to look out for if you are concerned, but I don't think you will have a problem. The drops sound like it would be easier and more precise. Hopefully this works for you! If you do the drops you might take away their bath for the day so they don't go and wash it off.


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

Skyeking said:


> *I have used Scatt and never ever had any problems, it is least invasive, but does the job. Just follow instructions carefully. *


Sorry Skyeking, I just noticed you had replied! thanks for the help, I have heard that this product is safer for them. How many drops do you usually put on them? 




wiggles and puddles said:


> I can tell you that ivermectin in general does not stay in an animals system very long. For a horse it is about 24 hours, so if you ask your vet you could see how long it stays in a pigeons system, and if there is anything to look out for if you are concerned, but I don't think you will have a problem. The drops sound like it would be easier and more precise. Hopefully this works for you! If you do the drops you might take away their bath for the day so they don't go and wash it off.


Thank you wiggles and puddles, I remember you suggested this a loooong time ago! remember? I still haven't done but they do need it! both ivermectin and scatt are drops, so it's a tough decision to make! thank you again!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Either works fine, and both are safe. I think the Ivermectin that I used was a couple of drops to the back of the neck. The Scatt, for pigeons is like 8 drops on the back of the neck or thighs. Part the feathers and put it on the skin. Never had a problem with either one.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Sorry Skyeking, I just noticed you had replied! thanks for the help, I have heard that this product is safer for them. How many drops do you usually put on them? 

* I use 3 drops on bare spot under wing or back, or thigh-per instructions.*


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Sky, where did you get those instructions? I had heard 2 or 3 drops, but then read for a pigeon, as they are larger, 8 drops. I'll see if I can find that.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

They use 1 or 2 drops on a finch. 2 or 3 drops isn't much for a pigeon. I got my dosage on Foy's, and have used it with no ill effects. So depends on the size of the bird. A young bird would probably be about 4 or 5 drops. Moxidectin has a pretty good safety margin.

Scatt Dosage--Foy's

48 Scatt 50ml/cc


Small Breeds (Rollers) 4 drops
Medium Breeds (Homers) 8 drops 
Large Breeds (Modenas) 16 drops.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Jay3 said:


> They use 1 or 2 drops on a finch. 2 or 3 drops isn't much for a pigeon. I got my dosage on Foy's, and have used it with no ill effects. So depends on the size of the bird. A young bird would probably be about 4 or 5 drops. Moxidectin has a pretty good safety margin.
> 
> Scatt Dosage--Foy's
> 
> ...


*I used the instructions that were on the bottle, I may have added a drop or two for large birds, but I always use less due to my use of garlic for parasites.. *


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Well I didn't use as much until I saw that dosage on Foy's. But it has worked and hasn't hurt. I don't use the garlic much though. Thanks.


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## wiggles and puddles (Sep 3, 2015)

Jay3 said:


> They use 1 or 2 drops on a finch. 2 or 3 drops isn't much for a pigeon. I got my dosage on Foy's, and have used it with no ill effects. So depends on the size of the bird. A young bird would probably be about 4 or 5 drops. Moxidectin has a pretty good safety margin.
> 
> Scatt Dosage--Foy's
> 
> ...


That is different. The one I got from the vet was based off how much they weighed. I think Wiggles got 3 drops (this is when they were babies, about 2 weeks old) and Puddles got 2 drops on the back of the neck. Do you only have to weigh them then to make sure they get enough, or make sure they don't get to much, when they are babies?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

What did you get from the vet? This is pretty much the same, as it does go by the size or weight. They give you a size range to make it easier, rather than having to weigh a bird. Weighing birds would be impossible in a flock, and there is a good safety margin.


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

Hi all, just wanted to tell you that based on your suggestions I decided to go with the 0.3% Ivermectin (Avio Ekdo/Endo) drops. The directions said 2 drops but I only did 1 because my feral guy had a bad reaction to a mite spray (for birds) that I used on him about a month ago. That's the reason why I was terrified to use Ivermectin, but everything went well  they did not have any reaction to it.

Now I have a question, how long do I have to wait to see any results? I still saw him scratching himself today. And do I need to do a second application? the directions do not say anything about that. Thank you all!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

No, you don't have to do a second application. The one application works for a while.


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

That's great! I'm glad I don't have to put more chemicals on them. Thank you so much Jay, you are always so helpful 

Do you know when will it start killing the mites? I still hear him scratching. Thank you!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

How do you know mites are the problem? Other things could be making him itch. It isn't always mites. Are they molting? That makes them itch, worms make them itch. Even dry skin makes them itch. Most mites you would be able to see on a bird.


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## JennyM (Sep 21, 2015)

Hi Jay, thanks for your reply. The reason I thought he has mites is because he has been scratching like crazy, it's been months now! and it's not just his body but also his legs. He sometimes grunts while he scratches, like he's mad about it. And he also shakes his legs like trying to get rid of whatever is making him itch. 

I have tried using sevin powder on him several times and last month I sprayed him with mite spray (for birds) from the pet store and nothing has worked. That's why I thought he had some type of mite that needed something stronger. He is not molting anymore.

Now I also thought it was mites because when I put him together with my female bird, he passed her whatever it is that makes him itch. She was NOT itchy before she met him, but once they started to hang out together she became itchy too. Doing all the leg shaking, grunting and scratching like him.

When I was going to release him back to the wild, I took him to the vet for a check-up, just to see if he was good enough to leave, the vet checked for worms and he did not have any.

What else could it be? He sometimes scratches his nose and sneezes, could it be related?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

A bird having worms is often missed. Tests will come back negative, as they aren't always passing the eggs. Not sure what the problem is, because the Sevin works great.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Have you read articles like this?
https://www.beautyofbirds.com/skindisorders.html


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