# worms..... worm eggs....and flagyl....



## Majd (Apr 6, 2013)

Hi all....
I've been using flagyl to treat canker from my five weeks old squabs... I have been using it for 5 days now.... and I noticed yesterday that one of them has poops like a water splash and poop Iinside it and I noticed a worm clearly visible (about 1cm) and eggs (probably larvae) with it.... I was happy as flagyl treats worms and other internal parasites.... but now more and more eggs are coming out with every dropping from this squab.... I am worry that their is more bigger worms inside that aren't getting out.... these eggs are 1mm maybe... they are clearly bisible and are white and round... I was thinking I should give more of that flagyl when the canker is gone... I was told to give 30-40mg of flagyl for each one ONCE a day.... so is it right... as I haven't noticed much improvement... so what is the dose of flagyl for worms.... and canker if what I'm doing is wrong.... I really want to heal them from everything and want healthy and happy pigeons.....and what could be the kind of worms.... as these worms are visible I read it's round worms... but their eggs should be microscopic as I read once... so can they have another kind of worms too... and I read other types of worms are rarely found in pigeons....your help would be appreciated. ... flagyl is causind the watery droppings... but I'm mostly concerned of worms now..... help is appreciated. ... thank you everyone. ...


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Flagyl (metronidazole) is not a wormer. Who told you it was?


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## Majd (Apr 6, 2013)

Ohhhh.... so there's another flagyl that contains another substance used as wormer???


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Majd said:


> Ohhhh.... so there's another flagyl that contains another substance used as wormer???


No. Flagyl and Metronidazole are the same thing. Most drugs have 2 names, just like Baytril is Enrofloxacin.
Flagyl/Metronidazole is NOT a 'worming' medication. It is an antiprotozoal.
For worming you need something like pyrantel, moxidectin or ivermectin. These are the most commonly used for birds.
If your birds are pooping out worms, it means they are infested and need to be treated asap.


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## Majd (Apr 6, 2013)

Mmmmm... thank you jhon and missfreebird.... I will get one of the meds for worms that missfreebird mentioned.... but can I use it while I'm using flagyl.... or I should wait until they finish their med?? Thanks again...


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Are you sure these are worms? Can you post a picture? Possibly could be tape worm?


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## Majd (Apr 6, 2013)

I didn't take a pic of that poop that had a worm in it.... but yeah I'm pretty sure that these are worms and I was moving too... yuck.... and there were a bunch of eggs around it... I may still can get a pic of the eggs because they often poop some witg their stools... maybe you can identify the type of worms from eggs?? But the eggs are pretty noticeable and are as much as 1mm each... and they are translucent white... but can I use it with flagyl being used.... thanks jay 3 for the reply  ....


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Hello Majd...
If u can see eggs clearly then these are tape worm segments...
Do u have dog/cat in ur house or neighborhood? because they have fleas on them which give tapeworms to pigeons. Posting a pic gonna get u needed help. I advise u to go for a broad spectrum dewormer. If u can find moxidectin+ then good bcuz u don't have to hold feeding. Or u can buy droncit+ or albendazole(base). Check for the availability
Ivermectin is not much effective against tapeworms


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

You won't see eggs, they are too small. I agree with the others, your most likely seeing tapeworm segments. They're small, white, and when they dry up they almost look like a piece of rice.


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## Majd (Apr 6, 2013)

Ok.... I will check the availability of the medicines brocky beiber.... mmm I didn't expect tape worms because I read they are uncommon.... and we have some neighborhood cats that keep crossing around the house.... thank you brocky beiber and msfreebird for you kind replies.... the tape worm segments are they parts of the worms of something??


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Majd said:


> Ok.... I will check the availability of the medicines brocky beiber.... mmm I didn't expect tape worms because I read they are uncommon.... and we have some neighborhood cats that keep crossing around the house.... thank you brocky beiber and msfreebird for you kind replies.... the tape worm segments are they parts of the worms of something??


Tapeworms are large and segmented. They shed segments as they grow.....almost like a snake shedding its skin as it grows  That's what your seeing. Tapeworm eggs are rarely picked up in a fecal sample because they don't lay their eggs all the time.....So you can have a 'negative' fecal but still have tapeworms.


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## Majd (Apr 6, 2013)

Mmmmm good that I noticed... but my question that noone has yet answered is can I use a wormer while using flagyl ... or will it affect them....


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Majd said:


> Mmmmm good that I noticed... but my question that noone has yet answered is can I use a wormer while using flagyl ... or will it affect them....


What are you going to use to worm them? I've never had tapeworms in my birds, so I can't advise on a wormer.
I know pyrantel and ivermectin are safe to give while using flagyl.....but they don't treat tapeworm.


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## Majd (Apr 6, 2013)

I think moxidectin plis is a good wormer and I'll get it.... but not sure I'm gonna use it now .. maybe after finishing the canker problem... and they are not improving much on flagyl....I'm giving for each one 50mg metronidazole once a day... should I give it more frequently. ... as the yellow growth that weren't noticeable are now a bit big and if you remove them they'll bleed a bit...


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## Majd (Apr 6, 2013)

Sorry for all the questions but I freaked out when I knew my babies had so much diseases.... and all of you guys were like me before... right ?? ;-)


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Majd said:


> I think moxidectin plis is a good wormer and I'll get it.... but not sure I'm gonna use it now .. maybe after finishing the canker problem... and they are not improving much on flagyl....I'm giving for each one 50mg metronidazole once a day... should I give it more frequently. ... as the yellow growth that weren't noticeable are now a bit big and if you remove them they'll bleed a bit...


Don't remove the canker nodules, as you can cause a serious bleed. How are you giving the med?


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

U can increase the dosage a little but not more than 100mg per day in any case. The cases I've treated before usually shed the nodules on third day or after third day. I try to remove them on third evening with little pressure. If they come out then ok otherwise I leave them alone.
If u r giving metronidazole in tablet form I will advise u to crush them to fine powder before giving it. Usually to adults the medicine can be given once every day but for young, I would give them twice 25-40mg in morning and evening.
Deworming can wait.
Follow up by giving multivitamins.
Moxidectin+ is one of the best dewormers u can use


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I will say it again. Do not remove the canker nodules. If it does cause a bleed, it will be too late. Not worth it. It will go itself when ready. Adults need 50 mg daily, once a day. If it isn't working, then try 2 different meds for canker. One in the morning and one at night.
Young, give 25 to 30 mg once daily for the 7 to 10 days. On occasion, it takes longer. If med isn't working, then try the 2 different drugs together. And tablets can be cut to the right dosage. You can give that piece without crushing to a powder. No need to do that. If the bird can swallow food, then he can swallow a piece of a pill.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

Sure he can swallow the pill. But the bird can throw back it out. Several med pill don't dissolve immediately and birds throw them out. Like co-trimoxazole,paracetamol etc. Crushing the pill enures that it gets into system and throwing back don't stand a chance.
I've treated numerous cases before,I've experienced young/adults do throw the pills out.
Giving low dosages can help the triches develop resistance. A little more to normal dosage can work wonder.
An australian vet advised me to give the med twice to squabs. And it has worked for me.
Dosages depend on severity,Majd. Normally 25-40mg is good

Maybe there are many ways to the same thing. Wts the age of the bird?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

They can't throw the pill out, unless you are talking about the bird vomiting. In which case the powder would be brought up just as well as the pill. As far as the bird throwing the pill, or tossing it out, he can't do that if you put it to the back of the throat and over the tongue. He has to swallow it. 

If you give the right dosage, then you don't have to worry about under dosing which helps them build resistance. Giving less than that, or for too short a time will help them to build resistance. Not giving the correct dosage. And most other vets will advise giving it once daily, not twice. And that has always worked wonderfully for me.
Overdosing, to avoid under dosing is not necessary.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

My birds start to throw after about 5-10 mins when the pill gives out taste in the crop. Metronidazole pills are notoriously impalatable. I believe that's why we hold feeding while deworming as when the feed+med is passed down from crop they vomitt. I've experienced this that's why I'm holding on to my point.


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## Majd (Apr 6, 2013)

Thanks a lot guys for your advice... and as you said I will keep giving them their dosage without overdosing for a longer period so they can build immunity.... I give them pills and they never vomited the food with meds... but if that happens I'll crush or hold the feed.... so I'll try another med to see if anything changes... and deworming can wait as you guys said.... but if they don't respond to boths meds I think I should elevate the dise abit... that's after three days from now


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

brocky bieber said:


> My birds start to throw after about 5-10 mins when the pill gives out taste in the crop. Metronidazole pills are notoriously impalatable. I believe that's why we hold feeding while deworming as when the feed+med is passed down from crop they vomitt. I've experienced this that's why I'm holding on to my point.



Well then, if you are experienced, then you should know that with Metro, if you feed first, to give it on a full crop, they usually are less likely to vomit. Also, if vomiting _is_ an issue, then giving a couple of drops of Pepto Bismul (or similar) about 30 min before medicating, it will usually stop them from vomiting.
Having it ground up or not will not make the difference, as you are still giving the same amount of the same med.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

> Jay3
> Quote:
> Well then, if you are experienced, then you should know that with Metro, if you feed first, to give it on a full crop, they usually are less likely to vomit. Also, if vomiting is an issue, then giving a couple of drops of Pepto Bismul (or similar) about 30 min before medicating, it will usually stop them from vomiting.
> Having it ground up or not will not make the difference, as you are still giving the same amount of the same med.


Tnx Jay3 for advice. Strange for u if I giv them crushed(not overdose) they don't throw back... Don't wanna exaggerate,just making my point clear that powdered form goes to work immediately by spreading and sticking to the crop linning. So even if bird throws back, all of the powdered med can't come out whereas pill come out at once. I've read that pigeons taste the contents of their crops.

Hello Majd, what is the age of the bird U're treating?
U should also swab little Glycerin on the canker nodules.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

brocky bieber said:


> Tnx Jay3 for advice. Strange for u if I giv them crushed(not overdose) they don't throw back... Don't wanna exaggerate,just making my point clear that powdered form goes to work immediately by spreading and sticking to the crop linning. So even if bird throws back, all of the powdered med can't come out whereas pill come out at once. I've read that pigeons taste the contents of their crops.
> 
> Hello Majd, what is the age of the bird U're treating?
> U should also swab little Glycerin on the canker nodules.



Well, you give he powder with water? If the bird vomits, it all comes out. It doesn't go in and stick to the crop wall as you are thinking. Besides, if the bird is fed first, the chances of him vomiting have been cut down. Just like many meds for people, the directions will tell you to take them with food in the stomach, which will help to not make you vomit. And the couple of drops of Pepto will keep the stomach settled. So I guess that we will just have to agree to disagree.


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## Jass SamOplay (May 29, 2012)

> Originally posted by Jay3
> Well, you give he powder with water? If the bird vomits, it all comes out. It doesn't go in and stick to the crop wall as you are thinking. Besides, if the bird is fed first, the chances of him vomiting have been cut down. Just like many meds for people, the directions will tell you to take them with food in the stomach, which will help to not make you vomit. And the couple of drops of Pepto will keep the stomach settled. So I guess that we will just have to agree to disagree.


I don't disagree with u at all. But my way worked out also well.Yes I do giv metro with food and water after several mins past,but I've always given all the meds in powdered form because my adults vomitt out the pills(I've tried the pills many times that's why I asked the vet out and he gave me this suggestion.Its been long and I never tried pills again) They keep throwing back untill the pill gets out. Maybe both ways are right. Thankfully its been several years now and none of my birds developed canker.(Prevention)
I loved discussing it out with you.


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