# Loft Management Program



## The Patriot (Apr 1, 2012)

Loft Management programs, anyone using a computer programs? I have been thinking about getting one any suggestions on any of them and how well they work. I dont like online data type.


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## GaryWCo (Apr 19, 2011)

I'm using PigeonDB.com I really like it, it's a software as a service application, and it's inexpensive. 

http://www.pigeondb.com/


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## Paragon Loft (Jun 27, 2009)

i use pigeon db and i like it.there are others that are also good .


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## Ashby Loft (Aug 31, 2007)

another fan of pigeondb here.


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## kbraden (Mar 27, 2010)

Pigeon DB here too 

Used Pigeon Planner Free Edition, but found it very limited on what you could do so was skeptical on paying for it.


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

pigeondb.com

very responsive with the very few issues I have had. There were a few but I think they have great support now.

Oh and they are here on PT too.


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

Ditto pigeondb. Good for apple users and mobile devices.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

The Patriot said:


> Loft Management programs, anyone using a computer programs? I have been thinking about getting one any suggestions on any of them and how well they work. I dont like online data type.


 I own and use more then one. But, even with all the new technology, there is still something to be said for printing out and maintaining a hard copy. Ideally, a series of folders, in which you can turn pages, and have photos with hard copy of pedigree, etc. You don't have to become overwhelmed by the record keeping, simply set aside "x" numbers of hours a week, and build your data bank. Start with your key breeders and their parents. 

Of the two programs I use, the most prevalent is : 2007 Hawkeye Loft Management System - Professional Version, available @ http://comproware.com/ They also have a scaled down free version. 

The other I would not recommend for the novice. It was designed with birds such as parakeets in mind. Which can calculate my inbreeding coefficients out to more generations then your typical racing pigeon fancier will ever need or do. I like it because I can track my Ludo colony back to Ludo's original foundation birds of the 1970's. It allows me to measure the amount of inbreeding in a closed breeding colony. For those who just may be curious the link is located here. I have been logging data into this program since about 2003. 

http://www.tenset.co.uk/ba/bird/index.html

Their advertising reads in part :

*Why is Breeders Assistant the premier pedigree software?

It has the best and most configurable pedigrees, including: photos, watermarks (with inbuilt fading), calligraphic text, decorative artwork for borders and corner graphics, sideways-on text, your choice of fields - completely configurable, customize all colors, boxes & fonts etc., HTML pedigrees, image pedigrees (JPEG, PNG, BMP), trial mating pedigrees, reverse pedigrees, circular pedigrees, web pedigrees, emailable pedigrees and web pedigree databases (pedigree generator).


It has a vast range of reports available including ancestor and descendant analyses, text pedigrees (to 16G), reverse pedigrees, breeding lists and more.
BA also prints your contracts/agreements, pedigree front pages & more. Use its powerful database to store all your bird details, contacts, show records, breedings, vet records, accounts and even appointments/tasks.


Population genetics: we have very fast calculation of Wright's inbreeding coefficient, and other analyses e.g. allele distribution.


It has many powerful genetics tools not generally available in other breeder pedigree programs e.g. prediction of genotypes (color genetics, carried traits + diseases via simulation of Mendelian genetics), calculation of inheritance probability of specific genes, modelling of polygenic traits, and various statistical analyses. We include configurations of color genetics for Cockatiel and Zebra Finches. These can be extended by adding your own configurations.



*

My apologies for the head crooking side view, this gives you an example of the kind of pedigrees which can be produced. Some details of this particular pedigree are obscured to prevent forgeries.


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## The Patriot (Apr 1, 2012)

Thank You all for the comments and information. This will now give me some idea of what can be done and to look at. Thank You again.


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## switchbackmat69 (Mar 31, 2012)

I been thinking about getting one for a wile, anyone try loft manager? http://loftmanager.com/index.php


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## akbird (Apr 29, 2010)

I have loftmanager and really like it. It's easy to use and they do provide excellent support.


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## switchbackmat69 (Mar 31, 2012)

that's the spacific one I'm thinking about getting?


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

I have PigeonDB and do not like it. I don't like the fact that I must create pigeons to add them onto my specifics birds pedigree, I am thinking of getting loft manager online I have seen the videos and it looks nice, I am just wondering if I am able to create a pedigree without creating a pigeon?


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## switchbackmat69 (Mar 31, 2012)

I'm not sure b ut you can demo it, it says you can use it for 30 days but it's olny like three, and it's free


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

Yeah when I click on try the demo it brings me to a log in page, there seems to be no sign up page anywhere.


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## switchbackmat69 (Mar 31, 2012)

I'll go look I down loaded it before. it did that to me too once


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## switchbackmat69 (Mar 31, 2012)

I like this one too, it's called loft organizer http://www.plosoft.com/en/index.php


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## switchbackmat69 (Mar 31, 2012)

ok I whas wrong when you go to loft manager and go to demo and that page with log in shows up. on the right hand side theres a demo button, you can click on it and it will load with full fuction and a demo list of birds in the program, you can test it out and see if it dose everything you want. not a down load like I thaught. the one you can down load is the loft organizer I guess. my bad, sorry


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## The Patriot (Apr 1, 2012)

I did try the Loft management free demo but did not like it. I have downloaded the pigeonDB. As recommended in this blog and so far I like the program quit well I am thinking about getting the 5year. But try the http://loftmanager.com/index.php. Everyone is different with different likes. To download the demo, to down load the demo look at the top right hand corner you will see video and demo just click on demo


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## The Patriot (Apr 1, 2012)

To down load the demo, when you get to the log on page, look at the top right hand corner you will see video and demo just click on demo I had the same problem and emailed the Co.


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## gbanuelos (Jul 30, 2009)

*Pigeons as resources, not text.*

Hi all, I thought I'd chime in. 

I run and develop PigeonDB.com. It treats pigeons as resources, as objects that you can reference throughout your account. They aren't treated as simple text. Yes, you do have to create pigeons if you want to generate pedigrees from them. The point of the app isn't that it creates pedigrees. It does do that, and does so very well. But pedigrees are 1% of what it does. It manages much more than any other app out there today, whether it's online or on your computer. 

Most people build their families then derive pedigrees from them. The former is the goal, and the latter a nice side-effect. To avoid crowding your account with pigeons that are just the background of the pigeons you own, create filters. Filters are very nice and can be very granular. You can set your default filter to be just the birds that you have in your loft today. That way, any time you log in, you see just the birds that are in your loft. But the birds that make up the ancestry of those birds are still in your system, and can easily be referenced again by any other pigeon. 

I recently released version 2 of the app. It has a newly re-designed interface, making it much easier to find and create pigeons, pairs, teams, and races. I'm currently working on a new native Android and iPhone app that will work directly with your data in your account. Just like when you log in to your bank with their app, so will you be able to with PigeonDB.com. There are going to be a ton of race specific features for it as well, so that you can train and race, keeping very accurate and granular records of everything. 

If you all have any other questions, I am usually on SKYPE. Please contact me there, my handle is "gbanuel". Thank you.



First To Hatch said:


> I have PigeonDB and do not like it. I don't like the fact that I must create pigeons to add them onto my specifics birds pedigree, I am thinking of getting loft manager online I have seen the videos and it looks nice, I am just wondering if I am able to create a pedigree without creating a pigeon?


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

gbanuelos,

Keep in mind I am a fan of pigeondb. There is a problem with historical birds. As a new flyer I have a birds from various sources and with the birds comes pedigrees (if limited value). Because some of these birds are "pedigreed" out of EU, CBS, or other high end lofts, maintaing the ped is important for their off spring if they do well in the various specials. So to back fill a pedigree I need to create three generations of birds that are not in my loft. This would be true if I had an established blood line and bought a new bird too. 

Just trying to put the problem into a context that I actually experience. 

The other thing that I have a small issue with is pairing. If I break a pairing I mess up previous off spring. So I wind up with a cock or hen in multiple pairs. There is no real way to filter pairs to only show "active" pairings unless I use "seasons". Which can be a problem if you have a cock/hen that is switched mid season. 

I still recommend pigeondb.com. I am looking forward to the iPhone app (found the web interface too limited for what I was trying to do with it).


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## gbanuelos (Jul 30, 2009)

I do understand that people with birds from very different backgrounds might find it difficult to always back fill the history. I think I can build out a feature where you can create pigeons instantly as you add a birds. That is, if you are adding a new pigeon, it will also have spots for it's parents, and perhaps grandparents, to be created instantly when you create that pigeon. I still have to create the pigeons however. I will offer the option that you tag those pigeons with "archive" automatically so they don't clutter up your account.

On the pairs, if you break a pair, the only thing you lose is any comments on that pair, as a pair. The children of that pair do not lose their parents. I have tried not to be destructive in any capacity that you can't avoid. 

I think seasons is really the way you need to approach this. I personally create up to 3 seasons a year. In addition, I can see that it would be useful to archive away pairs you have broken up that season, or maybe just mark them as "broken up" and the day they were broken up. That I can add to my wishlist and work on. Shouldn't be to much trouble.

Please keep that feedback coming.

--gb



Jaysen said:


> gbanuelos,
> 
> Keep in mind I am a fan of pigeondb. There is a problem with historical birds. As a new flyer I have a birds from various sources and with the birds comes pedigrees (if limited value). Because some of these birds are "pedigreed" out of EU, CBS, or other high end lofts, maintaing the ped is important for their off spring if they do well in the various specials. So to back fill a pedigree I need to create three generations of birds that are not in my loft. This would be true if I had an established blood line and bought a new bird too.
> 
> ...


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

Jaysen said:


> gbanuelos,
> 
> Keep in mind I am a fan of pigeondb. There is a problem with historical birds. As a new flyer I have a birds from various sources and with the birds comes pedigrees (if limited value). Because some of these birds are "pedigreed" out of EU, CBS, or other high end lofts, maintaing the ped is important for their off spring if they do well in the various specials. So to back fill a pedigree I need to create three generations of birds that are not in my loft. This would be true if I had an established blood line and bought a new bird too.


Yes same here, I need to make a 3 generation pedigrees for 24 pigeons, inwhich only about 6-7 have birds that are in the same pedigree.


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## switchbackmat69 (Mar 31, 2012)

I got a question on that, I have rollers, and homers. do I have to pay for both rollerdb, and pigeondb?


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## gbanuelos (Jul 30, 2009)

Yes, RollerDB.com is another system. I can give you an extra year on both if you buy the 5 year on both. Hope that helps.



switchbackmat69 said:


> I got a question on that, I have rollers, and homers. do I have to pay for both rollerdb, and pigeondb?


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## gbanuelos (Jul 30, 2009)

Just implemented and deployed your request for pairs. Please look under Breeding. A pair can now be "broken up" and "reunited" within a season. The pair will ten be shown below the active pairs, along with all of the other broken pairs. I hope this addresses your question. Thank you!





Jaysen said:


> gbanuelos,
> 
> Keep in mind I am a fan of pigeondb. There is a problem with historical birds. As a new flyer I have a birds from various sources and with the birds comes pedigrees (if limited value). Because some of these birds are "pedigreed" out of EU, CBS, or other high end lofts, maintaing the ped is important for their off spring if they do well in the various specials. So to back fill a pedigree I need to create three generations of birds that are not in my loft. This would be true if I had an established blood line and bought a new bird too.
> 
> ...


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

Perfect! This is exactly what I had imagined. 

BTW, I really like the new interface. It works a bit better for us mac users. I'll be renewing with an upgrade. 



gbanuelos said:


> Just implemented and deployed your request for pairs. Please look under Breeding. A pair can now be "broken up" and "reunited" within a season. The pair will ten be shown below the active pairs, along with all of the other broken pairs. I hope this addresses your question. Thank you!


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## gbanuelos (Jul 30, 2009)

Awesome. I develop on all platforms (OSX, Linux, Windows) so it should look good across them all. I prefer to use the Chrome browser on all of them. Works really well on Mac. 



Jaysen said:


> Perfect! This is exactly what I had imagined.
> 
> BTW, I really like the new interface. It works a bit better for us mac users. I'll be renewing with an upgrade.


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## switchbackmat69 (Mar 31, 2012)

i undertand how hard it can be to do things and make things happen inside a computer program, however I think the main answer would be a do all program that covers rollers, homers and show birds. were you could customise the program for each use depending on the birds your entering information about or adding to the system. what would be even better is if you could make tabs were you can swich it back and forth from one to the other. were you could see just that type of bird depending on what tab you are on in the program. and then have a tab were you can vew all of the above. all wrapped into one program. like I said a lot of us have all of the above and are still breeding and buying birds. not saying I don't like the program. just kinda brain storming stuff everyone seems to have not thaught of yet. I think I speak for a great deal of pepole when I say I would choose that over any other program. mabe even a better option would be a program that could be customised on as many tabs as you need to cover costomisable breeds, like canarys, finches, and parrots as well as pigeons.


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## Jaysen (Jun 21, 2010)

I'm an IT guy and prefer chrome on most platform. The Mac is my personal system and I like to keep it "pure" to avoid problems. It isn't that there is anything wrong with it, but I do so much "user self-inflicted pain" support that I avoid it as much as possible at home. 

BTW, I use linux on the loft PC, a Chromium OS VM on the mac, and firefox on windows. I always liked the pigeondb feel, but safari on mac seems to like the new UI a bit more. Not a functional thing, but a usability/comfort thing.

And just so you know, I use your app for an example to UI team on how "cross platform web apps are _supposed_ to work". 



gbanuelos said:


> Awesome. I develop on all platforms (OSX, Linux, Windows) so it should look good across them all. I prefer to use the Chrome browser on all of them. Works really well on Mac.


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## gbanuelos (Jul 30, 2009)

Cool. I just checked out your toss planning page. I built something very similar into the new version of PigeonDB.com. Go to Races....then create your stations. You can set your loft location with integrated Google Maps, by dragging the marker to the exact location of your loft on your property. This is the part of the program that I intend to really build out on the mobile apps. Once you have your loft location and some release stations recorded, you can easily and quickly create races or training tosses, adding the pigeons that were released. 

I usually start to train my birds at about this time of year. I have always wanted an app that, as I'm driving out to my intended location, would tell me my real-time distance, linearly, to my loft. Then when I reach a predetermined point, say 30 miles from loft, I would hear an audible alarm, or visual one. I could then start to look for an ideal location to release the birds. 

When the release happens, another part of the app will bring down all kinds of weather stats from Google, record the exact location, and all of this would be added to your pigeon's profile in PigeonDB.com. 

I'm really trying to get this out soon as I will personally need it for training. 

Checkout www.royersloft.com, www.littlereataloft.com, www.shawneecreekloft.com and www.ashbyloft.com. These are all websites that integrate the public display feature of PigeonDB.com. Little Reata and Shawnee are actual OEM custom deployments of the same software.


--gb




Jaysen said:


> I'm an IT guy and prefer chrome on most platform. The Mac is my personal system and I like to keep it "pure" to avoid problems. It isn't that there is anything wrong with it, but I do so much "user self-inflicted pain" support that I avoid it as much as possible at home.
> 
> BTW, I use linux on the loft PC, a Chromium OS VM on the mac, and firefox on windows. I always liked the pigeondb feel, but safari on mac seems to like the new UI a bit more. Not a functional thing, but a usability/comfort thing.
> 
> And just so you know, I use your app for an example to UI team on how "cross platform web apps are _supposed_ to work".


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

Jaysen said:


> I'm an IT guy and prefer chrome on most platform. The Mac is my personal system and I like to keep it "pure" to avoid problems. It isn't that there is anything wrong with it, but I do so much "user self-inflicted pain" support that I avoid it as much as possible at home.
> 
> BTW, I use linux on the loft PC, a Chromium OS VM on the mac, and firefox on windows. I always liked the pigeondb feel, but safari on mac seems to like the new UI a bit more. Not a functional thing, but a usability/comfort thing.
> 
> And just so you know, I use your app for an example to UI team on how "cross platform web apps are _supposed_ to work".


Not to change the subject, but up until recently I only used IE on my PC, but now I use chrome and safari most of the time. I am impressed with both of them.


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

That's so big. 

Can't wait to try it out. I like the idea of weather being pulled into the app at the current location. I use the weatherbug app and record stats each time I toss. Sometimes I just take a screen shot on my iphone and I have photo record I can reference later that has the time, place and weather data. You'll need a place for comments/notes if you haven't already thought of that. Wouldn't it be awesome, over time, to have actual, recorded miles that a specific bird has on it - kinda like an odometer? hahaha  I guess you could do that if this would all be added to the bird's profile, including tosses and races.

btw, I like the new interface, too. It took me by surprise but quickly figured it out.

David



gbanuelos said:


> I usually start to train my birds at about this time of year. I have always wanted an app that, as I'm driving out to my intended location, would tell me my real-time distance, linearly, to my loft. Then when I reach a predetermined point, say 30 miles from loft, I would hear an audible alarm, or visual one. I could then start to look for an ideal location to release the birds.
> 
> When the release happens, another part of the app will bring down all kinds of weather stats from Google, record the exact location, and all of this would be added to your pigeon's profile in PigeonDB.com.
> 
> ...


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## gbanuelos (Jul 30, 2009)

Exactly, a pigeon odometer is precisely what I was thinking. When I first started writing RollerDB, I wanted to give every bird an ever-lasting presence, a live record as if the bird meant something or had some impact on this earth. I know, it's a bit on the esoteric, but I have always regretted not having taken good notes on birds in the past. Without notes or pictures or any kind of record, it's as if that bird never existed. So I wanted to preserve those details. 

If you look at it now, if you go to any of your pigeons on PigeonDB, you'll see just this sort of life-long record. From birth, through pairings, through their own offspring, race results and on and on, all on one page. The "odometer" will fit right in.




Kastle Loft said:


> That's so big.
> You'll need a place for comments/notes if you haven't already thought of that. Wouldn't it be awesome, over time, to have actual, recorded miles that a specific bird has on it - kinda like an odometer? hahaha  I guess you could do that if this would all be added to the bird's profile, including tosses and races.
> 
> btw, I like the new interface, too. It took me by surprise but quickly figured it out.
> ...


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## brown7683 (May 9, 2011)

DOes this come with a free trial I would be open to trying it out. I been using pigeon planner but have been thinking about purchasing a program like hawkeye but with features you are talking about seems like yours would be better.


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## The Patriot (Apr 1, 2012)

Yes it does I am using the free trial now. I am very impressed by the program; also they are very quick to respond to any of your questions and concerns. I plan to do an upgrade. Just go to www.pigeondb.com and you can download the free trial


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

Btw, I like the addition of color coding common ancestors in the pedigrees.


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## Ashby Loft (Aug 31, 2007)

Hey Gonzalo, since your on here and I'm not a skyper just yet... 

I'm getting used to the new layout. There is a suggestion I have. I view my pigeons in grid view and the font is very hard to read the numbers. Especially the 3's, 7's, and 5's. 

Any chance you could try a different font and see if you like it?

Looking forward to the app. It sounds like it will be really useful. I like the new option to ad stations for races and training. I have a suggestion there too, and you may already be working on it. I would like to be able to pick the release spot for my stations from google maps, much like you implemented for adding our loft location. I hope that makes sense.


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## gbanuelos (Jul 30, 2009)

Just deployed this enhancement. You can now pick your race stations from Google Maps. Go to Races -> New Station

It's very easy now to set up your release stations. 



Ashby Loft said:


> I have a suggestion there too, and you may already be working on it. I would like to be able to pick the release spot for my stations from google maps, much like you implemented for adding our loft location. I hope that makes sense.


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## Ashby Loft (Aug 31, 2007)

gbanuelos said:


> Just deployed this enhancement. You can now pick your race stations from Google Maps. Go to Races -> New Station
> 
> It's very easy now to set up your release stations.


Nice! (there's another reason I love PigeonDB.... instant service)


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## gbanuelos (Jul 30, 2009)

The ability to update the site and give users what they need in as far as enhancements or bug fixes without requiring them to "upgrade" is the primary reason I decided to build this as a service and not as a stand-alone app. You don't need to download anything. It just works.

Also, for anyone interested, I have migration tools for Hawkeye. If you are currently using this app, you can export your data to a CSV and I can upload it for you, into your account.



Ashby Loft said:


> Nice! (there's another reason I love PigeonDB.... instant service)


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## Ashby Loft (Aug 31, 2007)

OK, here's another suggestion for your app. (I hope we are talking a droid app) It would be nice to be able to quickly and easily update bird or add birds I just banded to existing pairs etc... also if you want to get fancy, a button to activate the phone's camera then take a photo and have it assigned directly to the bird you are working on. That may require too much with updates keeping current with all the different phones etc.. I don't know. Kind of beyond my skills.

Oh and I just tried adding a station.... worked great!


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## switchbackmat69 (Mar 31, 2012)

when I went into pigeondb I did the free membership to see how the program works. after you add your first bird it won't let you add anymore birds.


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## brown7683 (May 9, 2011)

I just signed up for free membership hopefully by weekend I can give it a try. It will take me the 30 day trial just to get all the pigeons info uploaded to it. Does look like a great site though.


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## gbanuelos (Jul 30, 2009)

What is your username on the system. I will check it out and make sure you can add birds.



switchbackmat69 said:


> when I went into pigeondb I did the free membership to see how the program works. after you add your first bird it won't let you add anymore birds.


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## gbanuelos (Jul 30, 2009)

I found you, you should be good to go. I gave you an extra month to try it out.



switchbackmat69 said:


> when I went into pigeondb I did the free membership to see how the program works. after you add your first bird it won't let you add anymore birds.


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## switchbackmat69 (Mar 31, 2012)

same as on here, switchbackmat69


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## switchbackmat69 (Mar 31, 2012)

ok I'll go look again, thanks


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## switchbackmat69 (Mar 31, 2012)

I'll probbly buy them both for the five year plan here before lon


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## switchbackmat69 (Mar 31, 2012)

cool, now it works fine. before it had writing over writing so you coldn't click on the tabs to do anything


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## kbraden (Mar 27, 2010)

gbanuelos-- made new breeding pair last night, but it wouldn't show them under basic breeding tab, had to click 'all pairs'. It lists my new pair in a 'season', called 2010 (which I did not create). But when I click on 'all seasons' it shows none available. 
Also, an idea, maybe? How about being able to assign a highlighter color to birds names. So, on a pedigree, if a bird has done exceptionally well, it could be highlighted a color to stand out more?


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## gbanuelos (Jul 30, 2009)

The problem with the new pair should be fixed. I have also fixed the issues with the font in Grid mode. The font is bigger and the birds have more space around them.



kbraden said:


> gbanuelos-- made new breeding pair last night, but it wouldn't show them under basic breeding tab, had to click 'all pairs'. It lists my new pair in a 'season', called 2010 (which I did not create). But when I click on 'all seasons' it shows none available.
> Also, an idea, maybe? How about being able to assign a highlighter color to birds names. So, on a pedigree, if a bird has done exceptionally well, it could be highlighted a color to stand out more?


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## Ashby Loft (Aug 31, 2007)

gbanuelos said:


> The problem with the new pair should be fixed. I have also fixed the issues with the font in Grid mode. The font is bigger and the birds have more space around them.


Much better on the font issue! Thanks!


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## kbraden (Mar 27, 2010)

Yep, it is fixed! Thank you! Wish I had just 1/4 of your computer skills


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## brown7683 (May 9, 2011)

Ok one thing I am noticing that other software has that this doesn't is keeping track of when the birds lay the eggs and all that kind of info. I mean you can put in pairs that are together but not when they lay or nothing like that. Is this something you plan to do later on or what? Going to try get all my pedigree's put in tomorrow or sunday


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## kbraden (Mar 27, 2010)

In the pairs section, when you open up a pair, along the side under the pairs name it says :"edit basics", "add child pigeon", "add egg event", etc... 




brown7683 said:


> Ok one thing I am noticing that other software has that this doesn't is keeping track of when the birds lay the eggs and all that kind of info. I mean you can put in pairs that are together but not when they lay or nothing like that. Is this something you plan to do later on or what? Going to try get all my pedigree's put in tomorrow or sunday


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## brown7683 (May 9, 2011)

kbraden said:


> In the pairs section, when you open up a pair, along the side under the pairs name it says :"edit basics", "add child pigeon", "add egg event", etc...


Thank you that helps out a lot. I didn't even notice it but I just learning the software also. I am starting to love this software I think I like it better then hawkeye now its for sure the software I am going with.


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## brown7683 (May 9, 2011)

One other thing that I know friend of mine and mentor would love. Is if you could upload your own background image for the pedigree printing options. I see there is about 10 choices or so now but when he prints his out he likes him personal image on the paper. If he could upload that and use it without having to print image first I am sure he would be willing to make the switch. He is already talking about checking out the software he said it would take him around 6 months just to get all bird data in it but would be worth it just to not loose all the data again from computer crash.


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## gbanuelos (Jul 30, 2009)

Working on that actually. Pedigrees will be customizable. I will open up the meta language for them so you can design your own and upload them. I have previously charged for that but now I see how this can add value to the base product.



brown7683 said:


> One other thing that I know friend of mine and mentor would love. Is if you could upload your own background image for the pedigree printing options. I see there is about 10 choices or so now but when he prints his out he likes him personal image on the paper. If he could upload that and use it without having to print image first I am sure he would be willing to make the switch. He is already talking about checking out the software he said it would take him around 6 months just to get all bird data in it but would be worth it just to not loose all the data again from computer crash.


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## brown7683 (May 9, 2011)

gbanuelos said:


> Working on that actually. Pedigrees will be customizable. I will open up the meta language for them so you can design your own and upload them. I have previously charged for that but now I see how this can add value to the base product.


Not trying to take money out of your pocket or anything. Just giving suggestions on how to bring more people on board. I am hoping to get deeper into it this weekend but so far I am loving it and at least doing it for year when trial is up with 5 year renewal in future.


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## gbanuelos (Jul 30, 2009)

Not at all. I am glad you guys are suggesting things to make your lives easier with the product. I have worked in software for about 20 years and this is really some of the best fun I've had all that time. Building out a product that I am passionate about is more rewarding than being paid a lot for something I'm not. 



brown7683 said:


> Not trying to take money out of your pocket or anything. Just giving suggestions on how to bring more people on board. I am hoping to get deeper into it this weekend but so far I am loving it and at least doing it for year when trial is up with 5 year renewal in future.


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

gbanuelos said:


> Working on that actually. Pedigrees will be customizable. I will open up the meta language for them so you can design your own and upload them. I have previously charged for that but now I see how this can add value to the base product.


Wow, it just keeps getting better and better. Thanks!

Don't forget folks that for some of you there is a way to migrate your database from one system into this one. 

And another thing I like about this system is that you can download a backup file for yourself, too.


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## brown7683 (May 9, 2011)

ok almost got all my pedigree's for birds input. It does take some time and I don't got that many birds at all. What about the people who have 100's of birds that is something that would make them not want to make the switch cause of how time consuming switching over would be.


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## gbanuelos (Jul 30, 2009)

There are two options. I have migration tools for Hawkeye, or PLO. However, this is done by me, the admin. The other option I'm currently working on...the ability to create all of the birds in a 4 generation pedigree in one form. This is still some time away. It will take into consideration if you have duplicates in the system and will allow you to use the bird that is already in the system instead of re-creating it. I'll give you updates on my progress on this. This is the next feature coming up. Thank you.



brown7683 said:


> ok almost got all my pedigree's for birds input. It does take some time and I don't got that many birds at all. What about the people who have 100's of birds that is something that would make them not want to make the switch cause of how time consuming switching over would be.


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

gbanuelos said:


> There are two options. I have migration tools for Hawkeye, or PLO. However, this is done by me, the admin. The other option I'm currently working on...the ability to create all of the birds in a 4 generation pedigree in one form. This is still some time away. It will take into consideration if you have duplicates in the system and will allow you to use the bird that is already in the system instead of re-creating it. I'll give you updates on my progress on this. This is the next feature coming up. Thank you.


I know we have talked about this, and I still don't know what the answer is, but it sure seems like it would help if you/we had some of the more common stock birds available as an option to help out with the peds. That way, for example, if I had some 969 birds in my loft, I wouldn't have to fill out his record or pedigree.


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## brown7683 (May 9, 2011)

Anyway you can integrate Power Pigeon also. If not any plans in near future to be able to add all the data from power pigeon into it without person going thru and doing it manually. I talked to my mentor and he checked the site out and loves the software but has over 200 pedigree's to input and would take some serious time to do all that. He uses power pigeon is why I ask.


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## gbanuelos (Jul 30, 2009)

I don't own a copy of PP. If you can, please look around in your software to see if you find a way to export your data. If so, please contact me. You can email me directly at [email protected]. If they have a way of exporting, I can write code to import it into PigeonDB.com


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## brown7683 (May 9, 2011)

I emailed him and copied your response. I don't have copy of it either but thats what he uses. I was using pigeon planner and testing out hawkeye before signing up for your softwares free trial. When trial up I will renew I think your site has some great features.


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## gbanuelos (Jul 30, 2009)

Thank you. Anything I can do to help, I'll certainly try.

--gb


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## Dmax06 (May 10, 2011)

I see some people have there pedigrees highlighting repeated birds in their pedigrees but mine is not. Am I missing a setting somewhere or something.


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## gbanuelos (Jul 30, 2009)

On the printed pedigrees, you won't yet see repeated birds marked with color triangles. On the pedigrees you view from within your account you will. I am working on revamping the entire printed pedigree feature to let you customize a lot of elements. 

Note also, if you have duplicate birds in your system, they won't be recognized as the same and will not be marked as duplicates on the pedigree. Please make sure you don't create duplicates, unless you really want to. 

That's one of the differences between PigeonDB.com and most other software out there. In order to be as flexible as possible with as many people as possible, I don't force you to enter the year, number, and/or club lettes separately. It's really free-form. You enter the band number any way you want. My search algorithm does partial matches and can find any pigeon you are looking for as long as you have some part of the band. The downside of course is that you also allow people to enter the same bird twice. There is no harm in this at all. Just that when it comes time to mark duplicates in the pedigree, they won't be recognized as such.


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## Dmax06 (May 10, 2011)

When I log in through my phone the color triangles show up just not through my computer.


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## gbanuelos (Jul 30, 2009)

Hello everyone, I just added QR Code Images to the "Public Settings" of any pigeon on PigeonDB.com. QR codes are those funny little squares with black and white squares turned on and off that when deciphered give you a short string. In this case, the string is a URL to the public view of that pigeon record. You can always turn on or off the public flag for any pigeon. If someone goes to that url after you have turned off the public flag, they will get a short polite message telling them that the pigeon is not available for public viewing. Otherwise, they will see the public page of that pigeon, including pedigree. 

The QRCode Image is going to be an option you can add to your pedigree. This way, if you ever print out the pedigree, someone with a smartphone can take a picture of that print-out and it will decipher the QR code and take you directly to the online public page for that pigeon. This is a great little tool if you ever take your birds to auction. The accompanying pedigree won't be a simple 2 dimensional picture of the bird and ancestry, but will also take anyone interested into the live record online, on their smartphone, for that pigeon.

One thing to note, public viewing of pigeons on mobile devices is not yet implemented but will be shortly available. Thanks.


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## Ashby Loft (Aug 31, 2007)

That's a neat feature.

Are you still working on being able to generate jpeg images of pedigrees along with the pdf's?


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## gbanuelos (Jul 30, 2009)

Yes indeed. That's very important. Not all auction sites accept pdf's like PigeonsBid.com does.

--gb



Ashby Loft said:


> That's a neat feature.
> 
> Are you still working on being able to generate jpeg images of pedigrees along with the pdf's?


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## brown7683 (May 9, 2011)

Well I went and ahead and upgraded today to a years paid membership even though I got till middle of may on trial. I love the software and have no problem paying every year for it. It has some stuff others don't and I haven't found anything that the others had that I really wanted that you don't. Great software I would recommend it to anyone. Heck for that matter I have my mentor looking into the trial already.


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## gbanuelos (Jul 30, 2009)

Thank you. I'm just wrapping up a new way of creating pedigrees. It should be ready by the end of the week. It's going to blow all the other software out of the water! 




brown7683 said:


> Well I went and ahead and upgraded today to a years paid membership even though I got till middle of may on trial. I love the software and have no problem paying every year for it. It has some stuff others don't and I haven't found anything that the others had that I really wanted that you don't. Great software I would recommend it to anyone. Heck for that matter I have my mentor looking into the trial already.


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## Ashby Loft (Aug 31, 2007)

gbanuelos said:


> Thank you. I'm just wrapping up a new way of creating pedigrees. It should be ready by the end of the week. It's going to blow all the other software out of the water!





Can't wait to see.


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

gbanuelos said:


> Thank you. I'm just wrapping up a new way of creating pedigrees. It should be ready by the end of the week. It's going to blow all the other software out of the water!


Can't wait to see it, either.

I wonder if you couldn't make little "alert" messages so that when we log in we can see that you've made an update?


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## brown7683 (May 9, 2011)

Yes I am waiting to see this I am going to have to enter a few more pedigrees this weekend so would love to see what you got up. 



gbanuelos said:


> Thank you. I'm just wrapping up a new way of creating pedigrees. It should be ready by the end of the week. It's going to blow all the other software out of the water!


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## Nomad_Lofts (Apr 12, 2011)

I wish there was a way to add to the pedigree so we could include parents parents that are not in our loft. Do you understand what I mean?


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## Nomad_Lofts (Apr 12, 2011)

brown7683 said:


> Well I went and ahead and upgraded today to a years paid membership even though I got till middle of may on trial. I love the software and have no problem paying every year for it. It has some stuff others don't and I haven't found anything that the others had that I really wanted that you don't. Great software I would recommend it to anyone. Heck for that matter I have my mentor looking into the trial already.


Hey Brown I would have went for the Lifetime Like I did I love db. here is a wish alarms for egg hatchings. and may be a camera interface on the phone app allowing you to take picture of the pigeon and it will be where it needs to be.


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## Nomad_Lofts (Apr 12, 2011)

Nomad_Lofts said:


> I wish there was a way to add to the pedigree so we could include parents parents that are not in our loft. Do you understand what I mean?


I see you have this in the works thanks


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## brown7683 (May 9, 2011)

So did you get the project you was working on for the pedigree's finished. I am interested in seeing what it is.


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## gbanuelos (Jul 30, 2009)

I was de-railed for a conference but I'll have the first part of this up this weekend. More to come. Thanks!



brown7683 said:


> So did you get the project you was working on for the pedigree's finished. I am interested in seeing what it is.


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## brown7683 (May 9, 2011)

Well I got a few pedigree's from mentor today that need entered. Figure I would hold off to see what the changes are like maybe it make it a little easier to enter cause it just took me about 30 minutes to enter entire pedigree.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

could'nt you scan the peds and then save in documents?


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## brown7683 (May 9, 2011)

spirit wings said:


> could'nt you scan the peds and then save in documents?


Yes I could do this but I want the pedigree in there so when they have babies I can just attach who parents are and have the full pedigree already complete.


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## brown7683 (May 9, 2011)

Well never did hear if he had time to get update completed. No biggie though I went ahead and got my pedigree's I needed to enter put in. But I am going to have couple more here in next week so we shall see if update comes this week.


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## gbanuelos (Jul 30, 2009)

I have just deployed changes to the way you generate pedigree pdfs and images for pigeons on PigeonDB.com and RollerDB.com. It should be simpler and now you'll have the pdfs and images available for download from the "my documents" area. 

Changes to allow you to create an entire pedigree's worth of pigeons coming next, then back to fix up some issues and more features for producing pedigrees. Thanks ya'll.




brown7683 said:


> Well never did hear if he had time to get update completed. No biggie though I went ahead and got my pedigree's I needed to enter put in. But I am going to have couple more here in next week so we shall see if update comes this week.


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## gbanuelos (Jul 30, 2009)

One more thing..I have added a Twitter feed to the landing page to let you know of any changes to any of the products I provide. You can add us at @AllBreedDB. Thanks.


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## kbraden (Mar 27, 2010)

Regarding the new pedigree changes... I put a pedigree pdf & pedigree image to the 'my documents' area just to check it out as far as how to print it. So far, it has been 25 minutes and counting and the status still says 'in queue'. I can't print it, download it or do anything with it. Kind of liked the option to immediately download printable copy, like before, where it took 5 seconds to open and print


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## gbanuelos (Jul 30, 2009)

Sounds like a bug. I will take a look at it. Sometimes these things happen. The problem with the old way of doing it is that you had to wait there for it to complete. Sometimes that would take a long time, depending on how many images you had and how much information was on the pedigree. 

Will get back to you today on this. Thank you.



kbraden said:


> Regarding the new pedigree changes... I put a pedigree pdf & pedigree image to the 'my documents' area just to check it out as far as how to print it. So far, it has been 25 minutes and counting and the status still says 'in queue'. I can't print it, download it or do anything with it. Kind of liked the option to immediately download printable copy, like before, where it took 5 seconds to open and print


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## kbraden (Mar 27, 2010)

Just checked it again, all was done. Deleted them all & reloaded a ped to 'my docs' and it took all of 15 seconds  Good job on the fix


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## gbanuelos (Jul 30, 2009)

It's a delayed processing queue that occasionally gets stuck. I'm adding code to make sure it is restarted when stuck. Thanks.





kbraden said:


> Just checked it again, all was done. Deleted them all & reloaded a ped to 'my docs' and it took all of 15 seconds  Good job on the fix


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## gbanuelos (Jul 30, 2009)

*International Character Support*

I've just finished some changes to pedigree printing that will make it possible to print out international characters on the pedigrees correctly. 

The languages supported include Hindi, Chinese, Japanese, and Korean. 

I'd also like to make everyone aware of a service that I started a few months ago: http://www.pigeonid.com. This is a band tracking service. You buy bands from me, at PigeonID.com, and they get registered to your account for life. You can, from that point on, always update your information in case anyone finds your pigeon. The tracking is automatic and always up to date, depending on you. Unlike personalized bands, these point to current information on PigeonID.com. There are no long chains of calls a finder has to make to find you, the current owner. You can also transfer ownership of the bands. I will soon link the band record to records in PigeonDB.com/RollerDB.com, so the bird is always up to date.

The bands are short and fit both homers and rollers. They are inside diameter of 8mm. I'm also ordering new bands in 7 and 8mm with the unique PigeonID.com identifier, plus a year. 

What I do for my birds is I put the big plastic AU band on one leg, and the short PigeonID.com band on the other. The bands are short enough that you can still put an RFID/Clock band on the same leg. 

Thanks and more improvements to come!


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## SouthTown Racers (Jan 14, 2009)

Im having a really hard time with this program. For the computer illiterate, it is hard to figure out. All I want to do is fill out my birds peds.


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## Ashby Loft (Aug 31, 2007)

SouthTown Racers said:


> Im having a really hard time with this program. For the computer illiterate, it is hard to figure out. All I want to do is fill out my birds peds.


I sent you a pm.


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## gbanuelos (Jul 30, 2009)

There are a number of tutorials in the Help=>Tutorial Videos. What part of the app is giving you problems? I'm happy to walk you through any issues. 

Thank you.




SouthTown Racers said:


> Im having a really hard time with this program. For the computer illiterate, it is hard to figure out. All I want to do is fill out my birds peds.


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## Ashby Loft (Aug 31, 2007)

Hey Gonzalo...
I have an idea for PigeonDB that would make the "community" part of it more useful. When I am adding a bird's info and building a pedigree, I hit "search pigeons" bar and try to make sure I already don't have the data entered from another pedigree. Saves time and avoids duplicate entries.

You have added a warning which helps avoid duplicate entries. (nice)

What if, when we searched for a bird, there was a check box or radio button which would allow the search to include birds entered by the other users as possible matches. An "advanced search" so to speak. Then the option could be given to copy that bird's info to your own info, and us it in your own pedigree. Thus saving time in data entry.

Of coarse this could only include those who have enabled "sharing of data" etc....


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## johnmcrin (Mar 29, 2012)

I have seen East Coast Software and Pigeon Loft Organization as sold by Elimar and believe there are some more available as well. Want to have one in the next 4 weeks really so any advice old be appreciated.


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## gbanuelos (Jul 30, 2009)

If you haven't already, signup on PigeonDB.com. You get a month free, all features included. I can extend it if you'd like more time to evaluate it.





johnmcrin said:


> I have seen East Coast Software and Pigeon Loft Organization as sold by Elimar and believe there are some more available as well. Want to have one in the next 4 weeks really so any advice old be appreciated.


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## gbanuelos (Jul 30, 2009)

New pedigrees have been added as well as some bugs fixed in both PigeonDB and RollerDB. Please check them out. Here's a sample from PigeonDB.com:


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## V-John (May 15, 2008)

I just wanted to add in that I found this management program, watched the tutorial and bought a five year subscription. Love it, easy to use, which is important for a newbie like me. 

Are you ever going to have an android app for this? I didn't see if you did or not. 

Regardless, I love this program!


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## GrizzleMan (Jan 17, 2013)

I have pigeon planner and started using this. Is it always free or will it cut me off in a month.....Anyone


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## V-John (May 15, 2008)

GrizzleMan said:


> I have pigeon planner and started using this. Is it always free or will it cut me off in a month.....Anyone


pigeondb? I believe it will cut you off, as they are trying to sell it. 

However, it's very reasonably priced, IMO.


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## GrizzleMan (Jan 17, 2013)

so I'm wasting my , anyone know of any free sites


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

Pigeondb, at $9 per year, is practically fee IMO. That's 2 cents per day.


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## GrizzleMan (Jan 17, 2013)

I just wanted to know if pigeon planner will ask for money soon. I did not see any fee or future fee notice.


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## ERIC K (Mar 29, 2010)

pigeon planner is a free program.


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## gbanuelos (Jul 30, 2009)

Just to clear things up...PigeonDB.com doesn't cut you off at one month. You can still access your records after your subscription expires. You just can't create new ones. It's by far the most advanced and easiest to use program out there. I wrote it. We are about to release the new Mobile version of it, so you can add birds and notes while in the loft on your phone or tablet. Let me know if you need more time to evaluate PigeonDB. Thanks.


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