# Hen With swollen foot



## Max1170 (Jun 13, 2007)

Hello,



I have a hen that's feeding youngsters and she has been limping for two days now..... I thought maybe she just hurt it, but I looked at it today and I noticed that the pad on the bottom of her foot seems swollen... Is there any thing that I can give her to help her with the swelling? She's still feeding her young but I don't want anything to happen to her...Thanks Max


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

It sounds more like the beginning of a Paratyphoid boil (or E. coli) than anything else. You'd treat that with Baytril but you'd need to be careful with the youngsters and all. How old are they?

Pidgey


----------



## Max1170 (Jun 13, 2007)

Pidgey said:


> It sounds more like the beginning of a Paratyphoid boil (or E. coli) than anything else. You'd treat that with Baytril but you'd need to be careful with the youngsters and all. How old are they?
> 
> Pidgey


They are about two weeks old. Can i treat her with Amoxicillin? Will it hurt the youngsters? I know Baytril is hard on youngsters.


----------



## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*HI MAX, There 3 possible things here Bumblefoot,Foot Pad Ulcers, or Hyperkeratosis. HYPERKERATOSIS in this condition the footpad or pads produce excessive horney tissue ........ FOOT PAD ULCERS this condition is cause be hard rough floors,and one can treat the ulcer with an disinfectant like iodine........ BUMBLEFOOT this is the worse of the three it is a cut or puncture that has become infected with Staph. aureus or e.coli and may need to be treated by a Vet. ........What I have rosted here comes from the book FIT TO WIN by Dr.Wim Peters. .. GEORGE* .


----------



## Max1170 (Jun 13, 2007)

george simon said:


> *HI MAX, There 3 possible things here Bumblefoot,Foot Pad Ulcers, or Hyperkeratosis. HYPERKERATOSIS in this condition the footpad or pads produce excessive horney tissue ........ FOOT PAD ULCERS this condition is cause be hard rough floors,and one can treat the ulcer with an disinfectant like iodine........ BUMBLEFOOT this is the worse of the three it is a cut or puncture that has become infected with Staph. aureus or e.coli and may need to be treated by a Vet. ........What I have rosted here comes from the book FIT TO WIN by Dr.Wim Peters. .. GEORGE* .


Hello George,

Thank you! Do you think this maybe something that can wait till Tuesday? My Vets office wont be open till then.....Is there something I can give her now? You said maybe iodine...How would I do that?. I have wooden floors that are rough....I just don't want to lose her.. 


Max


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Can you post a picture of the foot?

Pidgey


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Max1170 said:


> Hello George,
> Thank you! Do you think this maybe something that can wait till Tuesday? My Vets office wont be open till then....*Is there something I can give her now? *You said maybe iodine...How would I do that?. I have wooden floors that are rough....I just don't want to lose her..
> Max


Hi Max,

You can try a drop of colloidal silver down the throat for now.

If you can't see any visible difference except swelling, and there are no cuts there may be something more going on. I think a picture, would be very helpful as Pidgey has suggested.

My Skye was limping the other day, and I could not find any swelling but his foot was almost hot to the touch. I gave him a drop of colloidal silver down the throat for infection, and rubbed the bottom of his foot with some Neosporin, it might have been an infection, not sure, but his foot seems fine now, and he is not limping anymore.


----------



## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

Could it be 
"MITES - can be found in the feathers, on the beak (scaly face) or legs & feet (scaly feet or legs). The mites burrow into the feathers or under the ceres or scales on the legs and feet of a bird. Noticeable by the appearance of a swollen cere that have tiny holes in them, eventually, if left untreated, the cere becomes encrusted. The legs and feet often swell and the scales protrude outward at an angle. Olive oil with a dash of Neem oil is an organic way to kill mites in scaley leg cases. The oil also makes the legs of the bird look shiny and clean, like a show-stopper."

Or infection:
"Adding a little raw apple cider vinegar to the hand-feeding formula water can prove nutritionally beneficial and help to inhibit the growth of yeast, fungus and bacteria. In formula a ratio of about ¼ tsp per 4 oz water is best."

"COLLOIDAL SILVER:
A drop in the drinking water prevents bacteria build up in the water and reduces bacterial troubles in the birds. Apply directly to infected or swollen areas and wounds."
"Garlic: One pill of garlic extract right down the throat:
Various researchers have shown that garlic extracts exhibit a wide spectrum of antibacterial activity against gram-negative and gram-positive bacteria, including species of Escherichia, Salmonella, Staphylococcus, Streptococcus, Klebsiella, Proteus, Bacillus, and Clostridium. Even acid-fast bacteria such as Mycobacterium tuberculosis are sensitive to garlic.Research shows that garlic extracts are effective against Helicobacter pylori, the cause of gastric ulcers.Garlic extracts can also prevent the formation of Staphylococcus enterotoxns A,B and C1 and also thermonuclease. Research shows the antibacterial action of garlic is mainly due to allicin. Interestingly allicin has also ben proven to be effective against various bacterial strains resistant to antibiotics such as Methicillin Resistant Staphylococcus Aureus as well as multi-drug-resistant enterotoxicogenic strains of Escheria coli, Enterococcus, Shigella dysenteriae, S. flexneni and S. sonnei cells."

There are many things you could do right away to see if it helps since your vet won't be open. I have effectively treated this type of foot injury in my neighbor's chickens using the olive oil with Neem oil and COLLOIDAL SILVER mixture because I wanted to cover all my bases.
One table spoon olive oil makes a base to the ointment, some drops of Neem oil or tea tree oil for killing mites and infection, and five drops colloidal silver to get whatever bacteria was left behind. Wash the foot, hold foot in a shallow dish of the mixture for a few minutes, and keep the bird in a separate very clean hospital cage or go out and disinfect the aviary before putting him back in there.
Warning...tea tree oil cannot be used on a very sick bird, with respiratory distress, or on hot days outside where it might evaporate, or in poorly ventilated areas. I know it is FDA approved for birds but always use tea tree with caution for small animals and never on cats. Neem has no such warning.


----------



## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

Max1170 said:


> Hello,
> 
> 
> 
> I have a hen that's feeding youngsters


And clean out the nest, throw nesting materials away and replace. Can't have that cleaned foot going into an old nest.
I was just thinking it's amazing how a degree in sports medicine applies to birds in so many ways, lol. And I thought I wasn't using my education.


----------



## Max1170 (Jun 13, 2007)

Pidgey said:


> Can you post a picture of the foot?
> 
> Pidgey



I am giving her Amoxicillin...Should i pull the grit?


----------



## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

That completely looks like my neighbor's rooster's (formerly) swollen foot. If it is staph (I'm leaning toward that) the amoxycillin might not kill it. You might end up using something more broad spectrum. Any other opinions out there? Do pigeons get MRSA? I sure hope not. You would have to use medicine impregnated honey like some hospitals are now using.


----------



## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Funny that you asked about MRSA, I had just asked my vet the other day if Yodi could have it. He said birds don't get it like we do, they get only cutaneous manifestations.

Reti


----------



## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*Reti*

Thank you for sharing that most valuable bit of information, something to keep for reference.


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

That swelling is more on the top side of the spread of the phalanges (toes) and probably means an articular (arthritic) infection. I'd still go with the Baytril. You can give it in tandem with the Amoxicillin if you want.

Pidgey


----------



## Max1170 (Jun 13, 2007)

Pidgey said:


> That swelling is more on the top side of the spread of the phalanges (toes) and probably means an articular (arthritic) infection. I'd still go with the Baytril. You can give it in tandem with the Amoxicillin if you want.
> 
> Pidgey


She is feeding young...... Is it ok to give her Baytri?


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, I guess I'd wait until she's getting off the nest for her "time out" and give it to her at the beginning of that portion as a once-per-day dose. They're just about to the point where the father's going to take over the bulk of the feeding anyhow. You can just take her off of them yourself and make the schedule according to your needs. You'll need to give her the Baytril directly, though--you can't expect her to drink it in the waterer and get it right.

Pidgey


----------



## Max1170 (Jun 13, 2007)

Pidgey said:


> That swelling is more on the top side of the spread of the phalanges (toes) and probably means an articular (arthritic) infection. I'd still go with the Baytril. You can give it in tandem with the Amoxicillin if you want.
> 
> Pidgey


 Baytril has been discontinued........Will amoxicillian do? should i pull grit?

Thank you Max


----------



## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

What's that ("Baytril has been discontinued") mean?

Pidgey


----------



## Max1170 (Jun 13, 2007)

Pidgey said:


> What's that ("Baytril has been discontinued") mean?
> 
> Pidgey


 This is from Foy's catalog 


Baytril Status: DISCONTINUED 

Common brand name of Enrofloxacin. A powerful drug and repeated use should be discouraged, as it also kills normal bacteria of the bowel. It is useful to treat individual unwell birds where the exact cause is unknown. It is also a treatment of choice for Paratyphoid (Salmonella) also usefull in the treatment of respiratory infections and one-eye colds. Use during breeding season should be avoided. 8 cc’s to a gallon of drinking water for 14 days for Paratyphoid. Tablets: 1 tablet twice a day for 14 days for Paratyphoid. One eye colds, use 1 - 2 drops down the throat, twice a day until cured. Comes with a syringe to measure cc/ml dosage. 
All Baytril is discontinued.



#589 Baytril 10% Liquid 64cc $49.95 DISCONTINUED 

#590 Baytril 10% Liquid 64 cc 2 for $79.95 DISCONTINUED 

#596 Baytril Liquid 1 liter $325.00 DISCONTINUED 

#577 Baytril Tablets 7.5mg. 50 $29.95 
DISCONTINUED 

#578 Baytril Tablets 7.5mg. 50 2 for $49.95 
DISCONTINUED 

#599 Baytril 5% Injectable 20 cc $36.95 
DISCONTINUED 

#587 Baytril 5% Injectable 100 cc $99.50 
DISCONTINUED


----------



## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Max, some of the Pigeon Supply Houses have discontinued carrying Baytril/Enrofloxan yet others continue to carry the medication. 
Click on this link from the resource section:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f25/pigeon-supply-houses-usa-amp-australia-only-9455.html

Go to post #5:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=228093&postcount=5

These entries are for Baytril. I just checked the links, they all work, though
Siegel's is currently out of stock, though it lists the depletion as temporary.
The other two links, VitaKing and All Bird Products, still have Baytril/Enrofloxan
in stock.

If these sources ever dry up, there is still the option of purchasing Cipro
through medsmex.com:

http://www.medsmex.com/store/search.php?mode=search&page=1

It takes a couple of weeks to come through the mail so it's an item you'd 
have to keep on hand. Hope this helps....

fp


----------



## Max1170 (Jun 13, 2007)

feralpigeon said:


> Max, some of the Pigeon Supply Houses have discontinued carrying Baytril/Enrofloxan yet others continue to carry the medication.
> Click on this link from the resource section:
> 
> http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f25/pigeon-supply-houses-usa-amp-australia-only-9455.html
> ...


FP,

Thank you!!


----------

