# Another odd light Green Urate Pigeon



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi all, 


Maybe there is something going around with the wild/feral ones - 


Anyway, I do not have any Baytril but I started him on Metronidazole and "Divet" ( Sulfadiazynum Trimethoprinium ) and ACV-Water...


Got him yesterday at dusk...have him set up on a Heating pad...he is making about no warmth for himself.


I tube fed him a light thin meal last night after I was satisfied he was decently hydrated ( he was drinking water and making wet poops/urates) 

But he threw it up overnight, along with a dozen Peas he had eaten when among the ferals and their late afternoon grazings.

Pale Green Urates are similar to the one I had the other day.


Any thoughts?

Might call my Vet and leave a message for an appointment tomorrow for him...



Thanks!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Poor baby, he looks so pittiful. Hope he makes it through the night.

Reti


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Odd Eye condition also - 


Poor little Bub...his right Eye seems to be filled with clear Liquid, no Pupil.

But rolling around in his Eye, are some several small light colored spheres, seen here settled on the bottom right.


His Eye also has an oddly similar pale 'Green' color or cast to it.

I applied some Antibiotic Eye Ointment initially, since his cornea or outer eye surface seemed to have had a film on it suggesting injury or mild infection...once the Ointment cleared these topical matters, one sees what is shown in the image.

New to me...and I do not know what to make of his symptoms.


Today, I gave him Metronidazole, 'Divet' and an 'Appertex' tablet ( for Coccidiosis, thinking it may help address whatever he has, even if he does not have Coccidiosis itself...)


Anyway, if anyone had encountered anything like this, let me know what sense you made of it? or regimen or success you had with it?

I have been keeping him covered with a cloth so the warmth would enclose him better.


He did not want to lay down of course, but I sort of gently urged him to do so, covering him and so on, and after a few tries he got it, and layed down, so, he has been nice and warm that way, laying down, on the covered Heating Pad, covered...and is not a fluff-ball as he was when I made the image much earlier.


I did not feed him any chow today, even though I started to several times...worried he would throw it up...now I feel bad, and will feed him a very thin meal and keep my fingers crossed.


Keep yours crossed too...

Thanks...



Phil
l v


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Ooops...forgot the image -

As you can see,while appearing somewhat 'cloudy, ( though it IS pale "green' ) in the image ( less cloudy looking in actual life ) there are four distinct various size light colored 'spheres' rolling around in his otherwise empty Eye...these 'spheres' are seen toward the right lower corner of his Eye.


Anyway, he has been standing off and on, and I get him to lay down again and cover him again, so he will be warmer.


We did a little Chow-Time and he has a thin nutritious easily digested liquid Meal in his otherwise empty Crop now...I used the famous ACV-Water for mixing his formula...hopeing it will help with whatever his issues are.

He is about as comfortable as possible I'd say...he really liked seeing the other Birds in here yesterday and instantly then was more interested in them, than that I was holding him even..!


I sure hope todays meds do something for him...he is definitely feeling very poorly.



Phil
l v


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Sounds like a bad Paratyphoid with a possible panophthalmia or iridocyclitis. That's usually indicative of a high-dose infection and we fortunately don't see that very much here. There's a picture of what it may come to look like on this post:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=106253&postcount=9

...if the bird makes it.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

That's definately heading towards the color of urates that I was trying to describe earlier, though. Get Baytril started as soon as you can. Good luck with that one.

Pidgey


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Oh Phil, that poor bird.


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## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

Phil, 

I've never seen urates that color. That poor little guy looks super ill. I sure hope he makes it. Just getting warm must feel wonderful to him. I'm glad you got him to lay down to conserve what little energy he has. Hope you got him in time.

Margaret


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

What a sad case, Phil .. good luck with this one. I sure hope you can pull him through.

Terry


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Thanks everyone, 



Well, shoot...

He passed away since I went to bed around 6:00 A.M.



This one DID concern me, as far as that it felt like someting nasty and possibly contageous, so I tried to be extra careful in how I did and handled things.



I ran out of Baytril some time ago, kept meaning to order more...kept forgetting to do it.

I will order more today...right now in fact, before I finish tis post - 

Okay, I just tried, and I think I remember why I had not gotten any...no one has it.

I just tried Jedds, Global, Seigels...I will try Foys... 

'Foys' lists it, but no longer carries it, so I just now called them and the word is that no one is ever going to carry it again, and slowly, no one is going to be carrying much of anything as time goes by, because the federal government is leaning on them hard, and is going to lean on them even harder.


http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/catalog/respiratory/index.html#Baytril
Is were they list it...but none in stock.

Anyway...

The previous 'pale Green Urate' one a few days ago showed no problems with his Eyes, and was never 'fluffy'.


Of course the same illness or bacteria can make for differing versions of it's works.


"Baytril"...

I will start a little trad about were to get it, in case anyone knows were it can ge got.

I wanted to get some injectable, and, some Pills or Water added kind.




Cipro, I tink I have some, and or I can maybe get some from my Vet.





The strange thing about his Eye, is that it was quite clear enoug to see into, and appeared to be empty, having no Iris at all...but having those several tiny 'spheres' which literally rolled around as I handled him and as he moved is Head.


Oh boy...poor little Bug...


At least he got to be warm anyway, and he liked that.


Talking to Jedds, I sort of put them at ease and we conversed a while...it sent a chill down my spine, how many things they are forbidden by the government TO say or be able to say...and how very stressed they sounded about what is happenning.


Things are getting very scarey...


Thanks...


Phil
l v


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

I'm so sorry he didn't make it, Phil, although from the photo I can't say I'm surprised. At least you gave him some comfort before he passed. Poor little pigeon. 

I haven't been able to get Baytril for awhile either. A few months ago I got a generic, Enroflaxan, from one of the pigeon supply houses. I can't remember now which one I got it from and I don't know if they still carry it. But it seemed to be as effective as Baytril on Rosie's egg-related mass. The feds do seem to be making it harder to get meds. That's especially bad for those who don't have access to a good avian vet.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Phil, I'm really sorry but, sad to say, expected to hear this. From his picture he was just too sick to pull through, no matter what kind of medicine you gave him.

Is there any way you could have a necropsy done? It could benefit all of us to know what was going on with this pigeon.

Also, I'm not surprised at the crackdown on meds. You know, something like this came up a year or so ago and I was really afraid the supply houses would have to stop sending meds but then that kinda died away until now. Maybe we should stock up as much as we can.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Sorry you lost him, Phil, but I didn't think he had a chance when I saw the pictures. That wouldn't mean that any of us wouldn't try, though.

For 10% liquid Baytril, try this one:

http://www.vitakingproducts.com/storefronta.htm

It's called "Enrofloxan" on their list.

Pidgey


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Thanks Pidgey...

I will Order some tomorrow.


Thanks every for your kind mentions.


Well, Lord knows I have seen worse, much worse ones hold on and pull through...and with the right meds, who knows, he might have managed.


Hmmmmm...

I will see about a Necropsy...

I will refrigerate him now.

Sure be nice to know what the heck this was in case I or we see it's likes again...for sure...



Phil
l v


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I am so sorry Phil. He seemed very sick and too late to be helped. Poor, poor baby.

Reti


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Oye...doing the Dusk time feed for the ferals...I saw some pale 'Green' Urate liquid poops which were drying on the outside of the Feed Sack...


Could not figure out who they were from, and I watched everyone graze hoping to see something...

I keep the Feed in my old parked Van, and only a very few ferals know the trick of getting in through the driver's rolled down Window...so I will check it tomorrow off and on and see if I can determine who is in there.


Anyway, looks like it might be sort of going around anyway, whatever it is.


I will order a bunch of "Enrofloxan" tomorrow, injectable and other...and see about the Necropsy, for which I have refrigerated the poor little Bub...


Anyway...thanks for the various mentions everyone...


Love, 

Phil
l v


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

Baytril / Enrofloxin may not be readily available to us anymore, but vets can get both in liquid and tablet form so use that source (your avian vet) if possible. Sad, as this excellent medication is being removed from the market due to concerns of it being transferred into the human food chain via its over-use in poultry.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

One thing that can be misleading, though, is that bile will soak into white urates under certain circumstances and create a pseudo version of that color when some poops are drying. It's when it's fresh and wet and looks like that that it truly flags danger. If you look even closer at that poop picture, you'll see that there are no dark solids to go with it--just a mucousy blob. Best of luck, Phil.

Pidgey


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Phil, I'm so sorry.  
He was a beautiful pigeon and I'm grateful that you found him and took him in for some comfort and peace.



Blessings.


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## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

Phil,
I'm so sorry you lost that little guy. He at least had some comfort in his last hours in your care.

I wonder, given the PMV outbreak you had earlier this year, if there isn't a mutated strain of PMV occurring in the Las Vegas area. You have really had some very ill birds come to you to care for. Hopefully the colder weather coming might slow it down. Your vet may have some idea or the state avian people. I know in California there is a state agency that tracks birds, probably because of West Nile etc. They have sentienal chickens all over the state that they test at intervals for diseases to monitor what might be going around. Maybe Nevada does the same?

Margaret


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Margarret, 



I dunno...

Some illnesses are 'Reportable' when definitively diagnosed...but I do not think the PMV Viruses are among them...well, Newcastle would be I am sure, if affirmatively diagnosed, and not many places have the facilitys...or would have to send off biopsies to distal Labs to get a finding...


I had some things come up today and I was not able to get to my Vets, but I will go tomorrow and see about the Necropsy.


These Two Birds I have lost this last last week who had similar Urates...the first one was a good weight full body fellow, and the second was fairly emaciated.


This sort of implys to me that if they had the same illness, that Pigeon No. 2 had some other illness already...or, held out much longer from the same primary illness, while loosing weight.


These were both older Birds...not flegdlings or especially young anyway far as I could tell.


I will look into what if any amenitys or interests the State of Nevada might have...and or how one migh access them.


Sure be nice if they had a State Lab who would be happy to do really thorough Necropsies for free, just because they care...


That, would be very useful...! 


I did order some -


Enrofloxan Liquid 10% 
$30.00 
Water soluble treatment for bacterial infections - Item # ANT0045 
respiratory, salmonella (paratyphoid), e-coli. 
Dosage: For 4 days, 2cc per quart of water (8cc 
per gallon) followed by 3 - 6 days of 1cc per quart 
of water (4cc per gallon). 100 cc 



And some - 


ESB3 
$45.00 
Very effective treatment for e-coli, coccidiosis and Item # COC0040 
salmonella. 


Dosage: 1 tsp. per gallon of water for 3 - 5 days. 
250 gr bag (treats approx. 31 gallons of water) 


As they seemed to have a high opinion of the ESB3 stuff, though they did not know what was in it and offered to round it up and read the label to me, I decided to get it also and I will read the label when it arrives.



I wanted some injectable, and they did not have any.


I talked to a friendly Pharmacist today here in town, and they are amenible to helping me, provided I can walk in with a prescription of some sort...so, might be able to get something there...


So, I will see if I can schmoose my Vet into a scrip for injectable Baytril...and the Pharmacy can order it in.


Would injectable Cipro be just as good?

I forget now, but it seems like one was better for Avian than the other...


Anyone know?


Phil
l v


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

They're about dead equal. 40% of the Enrofloxacin absorbed gets changed in the liver to Ciprofloxacin anyhow. The injectibles (for IM administration; IntraMuscular) tend to cause local muscle necrosis so they're a "use sparingly" sort of deal.

Pidgey


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Pidgey said:


> They're about dead equal. 40% of the Enrofloxacin absorbed gets changed in the liver to Ciprofloxacin anyhow. The injectibles (for IM administration; IntraMuscular) tend to cause local muscle necrosis so they're a "use sparingly" sort of deal.
> 
> Pidgey



hi Pidgey, 



This last one, seeing as how his Crop was in stasis...an injection might have been the way to go.


Phil
l v


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