# Pied pigeon crossed with Solid



## Henk69 (Feb 25, 2010)

I imagine this would happen quite often, crossing a pied pigeon to a solid one.
My question is: what does it produce exactly.

A summary:
Baldhead. Baldhead is dominant so the offspring should be baldhead. But is it a 100% baldhead or are some parts less white?

Gazzi. Gazzi is recessive so the offspring should be solid.

White Tail. Dominant.

White Flight/Primaries. Dominant. Is there a gene symbol yet?

Magpie, dominant type. Should give 50% Magpie, and some white flighted animals. What would happen if the white-flight gene is lost?

Magpie, constant type. F1 crosslings are white-flighted.

Goal of the question is to find out dominance of pied genes.


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## NetRider (May 6, 2007)

Interest question there Henk69.

I once tried to find some info about the different pied genes as well, but there does not seem to be much written about them online.

You say that White flights / Primaries are dominant. Uhm is this sex linked then? I have had a cock with white primaries whom I had 3 youngsters from, one of them had white flights, two did not. All 3 of them were hens, and only one of them shared the white tail like their father, this was the one who also shared his white flights.

These pied genes seem to be too complex, for example this cock had 12 feathers in his tail, and only the 4 middle ones were white. His daughter who had white flights, and white tail like him, also only had these 4 feathers being white, while the rest of the tail was normal blue bar.

Just to add to the complexity, I also have one hen with pure white primaries and secondaries. Even her tail is pure white, with the exception of ONE feather. She has molted several times, but this one feather always grows out in dark color.


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## Henk69 (Feb 25, 2010)

Never read that any pied gene is sexlinked.
In such small numbers coincedence is king... 

Daughter with white flights and part tail:
Were those white tail feathers the outermost or the innermost?

White flights also exist in a recessive form, and some pied patterns may come with white flights included, not needing the white-flight gene.

Yes, it is complex. But unless breeders painstakingly document their findings, we are not going to learn from their crossings.
I found an old scientific paper that stated that Baldhead was recessive, but not fully. So in fact incomplete dominant. This should have been elaborated.
So I often read it is complex, but I would like a shot at interpreting the results myself.


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## NetRider (May 6, 2007)

Okey, but I was thinking that if those white flights are dominant, then most likely all the offspring should have them? Unless they are heterozygous and homozygous like the spread gene, where the cock bird actually would have to be homozygous for those genes in order for all the offspring to show them too? But in this case since only one daughter showed them, then he might be heterozygous for that trait?

The white tail feathers were innermost. You could count 4 blue feathers from left, then 4 white feathers, and another 4 blue feathers on the other side of the tail. Her father had the same. Oh and I also had a nest sister of this cock, her tail was pure white, but she did not have the white flights. Their mother had white flights, but colored tail, and their father had colored flights and tail. So it was really hard to tell where these two got their white tails from.

I have a recessive red tippler hen who has two white feathers in middle of her tail too. The rest of the tail is recessive red. I only have one offspring from her, and the baby is a normal blue bar, and does not have these white tail feathers. Maybe she will get them after she molts.

When I think about it, I also have one blue spread hen (black) with all primaries being white. The rest of the bird is black, except a white spot on the rump. I have two youngsters from this hen, none had the white flights like their mother.


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## Henk69 (Feb 25, 2010)

I see your point.
Typical. I blurt out that white flights are dominant and suddenly everyone has recessives...


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Variables*



Henk69 said:


> I imagine this would happen quite often, crossing a pied pigeon to a solid one.
> My question is: what does it produce exactly.
> 
> A summary:
> ...


Henk
There are a lot of variations with these pied genes and there is no way to predict "exactly" what we'll get. The dominant types are not completely dominant and result in a variety of markings when mated to wild type. Baldhead is this way as well as other pied markings. The young will show varying amounts of white in head, flights and tail.

Gazzi is recessive as you say and gazzi to wild type results in wild type, carrying gazzi. The symbol is "z".

Dominant white tail is another that will result in variations. The symbol is Wt. Seems to me that I've also read of a recessive white tail gene.

White flight is given as a dominant Wf. While this is true, again, this will result in variations and there are also recessive pieds that result in white flights. These can become very confusing as to which we are dealing with as white flights all look the same. If we have a pair of one that is white flighted and one that is self colored and they have white flighted young, we cannot assume that we have a dominant white flight situation. The only thing we can be sure of is that if a self pair has white flighted young, we have a recessive pied or white flight.

I can't help much with magpie, can only guess that it is more than one type of pied, working together to form a pattern.

Bill


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## Henk69 (Feb 25, 2010)

Thanks, anything helps.

I googled a lot about pied markings in pigeons, but when I added "nun" (markings) I stumbled over this page:
http://dinamergeani.com/about_pied_pigeons.html


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Thanks Henk*

That's good info and what we need. Dina also shows up here from time to time but more often at "geneticsforpigeons" site. Would be a good place for you to check and ask questions as well.

Bill


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## Henk69 (Feb 25, 2010)

Members only, and I understand you have to invited...


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*It's open to anyone*

You have to join to participate, just like here but anyone can join. If you need an invitation, consider this to be one.  There is another that is closed to outsiders and I'm not in it.

Bill


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## qicaige (Mar 3, 2013)

Thank you，i've got a lot


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