# Blind Baby Pigeon?



## Butanding (Feb 22, 2013)

Hi! So, recently I acquired a baby pigeon from a man who raised many of them and this one in particular didn't seem to be growing well, because the mother wasn't taking enough care of it. I got the baby when it was about 4 days old, and I have been hand rearing it with Kaytee exact, and it has been two days since then. It has been doing really well and seems to be developing fine, except for its eyes. I've raised pigeons in the past and I know what young baby pigeon's eyes look like. This bird is different. He almost never opens them, except to squint, and they are CLEAR. Also, the entire eyeball, under the skin, is very large. They're always a little disproportionate at first, but these are bulbous and give him an alien look. There is no definition within them and he doesn't seem to be able to recognize my finger or anything until I touch him on his body, and then he will follow to it. I know the birds are born blind, but I wonder if they should be developed enough by now? Other than that, he seems to be just fine. He eats, poops, screams for more food, etc. And I dont think it actually seems to be hurting him. Perhaps the lack of care stunted his growth when he was younger, or maybe he's an oddball taking a little longer to develop. Either way, he's a trooper.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

A picture would help. But he is still too young to tell.

He may have " bull eye" all black.  it's nothing to worry.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

If he is blind, he could still do fine in a sheltered environment. We have two we took on as squabs, and they mix with all the other pigeons in our rescue aviary, and one would hardly know they had a problem (except when one of them takes off and can't, obviously, navigate).


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## Butanding (Feb 22, 2013)

This isnt a perfect picture but you can kind of tell:


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

What a cute , well fed baby pigeon. Thank you so much for taking care of him.
Indeed the eyes.. not just the coloring, but they are quite bumpy. These eyes remind me of Lewis a recent rescued pigeon, but a mature one...She is also blind..but very happy..

Fyi the pics with eye in the first post of the thread. Any similarity? But i wish we're wrong. Time will only tell.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f6/help-pigeon-with-partially-squished-head-66482.html?highlight=lewis


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*Thank you for caring for this little cutie.

I would treat for canker, just in case, even if you haven't seen signs of it. What kind of birds are the parents? There are breeds of pigeons that have swollen eyes like that, not quite as bad as I can tell on the one eye.*


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## Butanding (Feb 22, 2013)

Well, in relation to Lewis, the rescued bird, the only similarity I can see is that his eyes don't open very wide either. But I think that's because he has to compensate for how enlarged they are. His parents are mixed birds, but from what I can tell, they are mostly rollers and homers, aka, none of the breeds where you would expect the larger eye appearance. I did see both of the parents. 

He doesn't vomit or have any mouth/throat "cheese" so I really dont feel like he has canker, but if you think he should be treated for it, then I'll look into it. Actually, everything about him is pretty normal. I feel like his crop could empty a little faster, but I think thats just me not being used to a wee baby. 

I do know he's blind right now, but I guess the question is whether he will grow out of it or not. Even if he doesn't though, he is going to be a spoiled house pigeon lol


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

his eyes are big, I was thinking he could be a breed with the bug eyes..but not the case..so yes he does have some sort of anomaly. I think it will be a wait and see thing as there is not much you can do about it. he looks perfectly fed and happy.


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## Butanding (Feb 22, 2013)

Hi guys, as the recent days have passed I've begun to think that perhaps there is more to be known about the eyes of this baby bird. As of now, he is about 14 days old. I forgot to mention, but when I got him, he was about 2-3 days old and had NO fuzzy down. I didn't think much of it at the time...but it is bizarre to me now that I think of it. His eyes now, do have some definition with the pupil and iris, but I still dont think he can see anything except perhaps a light change but I'm not even sure of that. My boyfriend and I attempted to check if his pupils would change size with a flashlight and there was no change at all, while in comparison to another pet pigeon I have, the pupils do dilate and change with the light gradient. So, thats a bad sign to me. Also, I have noticed that I practically only need to feed him once a day. His crop is so slow. I have now made his food even more watery and try to break it up into smaller feedings throughout the day to keep his metabolism up. However, I must note, there is NO sign of sour crop or any cheese type substance in his mouth and throught. I dont know if its a possibility, but could he have been a PREMATURE bird? As of this point, he had a two day spurt where his quills sprouted, but he hasn't gotten nearly enough, and his poor head is completely bald, not to mention he is SO small, hasn't hardly grown that much. No new quills have shown up at all since then. Its very wierd. Also, when I got him, (I don't remember the proper term) I'll just call it his "umbilical cord" though thats obviously not what it is, was slightly still attached. At this stage in the game, that should definitely be gone but it is still firmly attached and shows no sign of deterioration. At first, I was just worried that he would be blind. Now, I have a whole host of things I"m worried about, and I hope he survives. He just isn't on track the way he should be. Any ideas as to why his growth is so stunted? I've raised babies before and this has never happened with the formula. I'm just very perplexed and worried about the whole thing. Any information is so greatly appreciated.


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## Butanding (Feb 22, 2013)

*Premature, blind baby pigeon?*

Hi guys, I commented on a thread already about this, but I was hoping that more people would see it this way. This is in regards to my baby pigeon, named Wren, who I first started a thread about because I believe him to be blind. As the recent days have passed I've begun to think that perhaps there is more to be known about the eyes of this baby bird. As of now, he is about 14 days old. I forgot to mention, but when I got him, he was about 2-3 days old and had NO fuzzy down. I didn't think much of it at the time...but it is bizarre to me now that I think of it. His eyes now, do have some definition with the pupil and iris, but I still dont think he can see anything except perhaps a light change but I'm not even sure of that. My boyfriend and I attempted to check if his pupils would change size with a flashlight and there was no change at all, while in comparison to another pet pigeon I have, the pupils do dilate and change with the light gradient. So, thats a bad sign to me. Also, I have noticed that I practically only need to feed him once a day. His crop is so slow. I have now made his food even more watery and try to break it up into smaller feedings throughout the day to keep his metabolism up. However, I must note, there is NO sign of sour crop or any cheese type substance in his mouth and throat. I dont know if its a possibility, but could he have been a PREMATURE bird? As of this point, he had a two day spurt where his quills sprouted, but he hasn't gotten nearly enough, and his poor head is completely bald, not to mention he is SO small, hasn't hardly grown that much. No new quills have shown up at all since then. Its very weird. Also, when I got him, (I don't remember the proper term) I'll just call it his "umbilical cord" though thats obviously not what it is, was slightly still attached. At this stage in the game, that should definitely be gone but it is still firmly attached and shows no sign of deterioration. At first, I was just worried that he would be blind. Now, I have a whole host of things I"m worried about, and I hope he survives. He just isn't on track the way he should be. Any ideas as to why his growth is so stunted? I've raised babies before and this has never happened with the formula. I'm just very perplexed and worried about this little guy. Any information is so greatly appreciated. I'll post a picture shortly.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Sounds like there is something wrong with this baby.
May I ask what are you feeding him? You mentioned you have experience in raising baby birds, I am just thinking since something is not right you might be able to add something to his current diet. By eating only once a day he is not getting enough nutrients to grow properly. Can you post a pic of the baby?
Also do you know anything about the parents? 
Could be he has something curable, E.coli would be one of my guesses, I have seen it quite often on baby pigeons. Canker is another option, it could be in the crop. 
I am just guessing here, without lab tests it is impossible to tell.
Another question, how are the droppings?
Sorry about all the questions, just trying to figure what could be going on with this little guy.


Reti


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## Butanding (Feb 22, 2013)

Here's some pictures of him. He is either 14 or 15 days old. Also, take note that one of these pictures makes his eye appear much more dark/black than it actually is in reality.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Oh my goodness, he looks adorable and he looks actually pretty good and healthy otherwise.
How much are you feeding him? I noticed the crop is quite full.


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## Butanding (Feb 22, 2013)

So, I'm feeding him kaytee exact. Also, I was using "once a day" as a reference to how slow he is at digesting. I actually feed him 3- 4 times a day just in very very small doses because it takes him so long. 

I did see both his parents, one was entirely black and one was almost entirely brown with white flecks and both appeared very healthy. (I'm surprised his feathers are coming in white haha, I'd almost think hes albino except he has two quills that are dark). I truely don't believe that he has canker at all, but e. coli I know nothing about. And I don't mind the questions at all! I'm just frantic so I'll tell you anything!

Also, his stool looks completely normal to me, though I dont think he goes often enough, which I can attribute to how slow he eats. Its watery yet, sturdy enough that its in one piece. As gross as the description may seem lol


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I can't tell if there is anything wrong with the eyes.
Do you think he has congenital cataracts? You mentioned they are light colored.

Reti


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## Butanding (Feb 22, 2013)

His size (which seems small to me), and amount of quills, as well as the attachement from the egg, slower crop, and being completely blind as a bat all lead me to believe something isnt right. You can put your finger infront of his face all day and he wont nudge you till you touch him first, and he is very unaware of his surroundings.


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## Butanding (Feb 22, 2013)

I don't really know what congenital cataracts are but I think you can tell that they are enlarged. (Thats the size his eyes were when I got him) They have a very thick layer of clear that seems to sit above the iris and pupil. Its like they are deep in there. He also cant open his eyes all the way, assuming bc they are so swollen, and he doesn't focus on anything when they are partially open. I should also add that in the beginning there was nothing in them at all, just clear eyeball. So, I know they are developing, just don't know if he'll get his vision or not.


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## TwinTurboPigeon (Jan 22, 2013)

Aw, He looks so cute! Sorry to ruin this thread but he is too cute!


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## Butanding (Feb 22, 2013)

haha its fine. I have to agree, he is so adorable. He just screams and screams for food alllll the time. Full or not.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I think it is better to feed small amounts and more often as you are doing now. You can add a tiny bit of apple sauce to the formula, helps in digestion.
Sounds like he has congenital cataracts, not 100% sure, but I do think so. If so I doubt they will resolve. Also if that is what it is makes me think he might have something genetic or congenital going on and there is nothing you can do about that.
Supportive care is one thing, also you can add to his formula propolis, once a day. Keep him warm and if he can get some natural sunlight 30 min/day that would help with his growth.

Reti


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Taking another look at the pictures, the eyes are bulging quite a bit. Hmmm, I haven't seen that before. I would think there is some fluid behind them. 

Reti


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## Butanding (Feb 22, 2013)

I'm not sure if its fluid or cataracts....I lean towards fluid because I dont see a milky shine inside his eyes, but I'm just not sure. 

Also, I do add applesauce to his food occasionally. It doesn't seem to help much, but it must.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*He is not growing because he is not getting enough to eat due to slow crop (once a day is not enough, he should be getting at least 4 meals a day)and because he is hand reared . Have you tried putting a tiny bit ofapplesauce (no sugar added kind, not applejuice)in the formula?

It takes food and energy to build new cells for growth and feathers and he is not getting enough food for energy and building new cells.

The baby could be a premie.

*


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## Butanding (Feb 22, 2013)

"Once a day" is just an example of how slow it is. I do feed him multiple times a day just in absurdly small doses....and I do add applesauce but it doesnt seem to do anything (small amounts, no sugar added, all natural kind).


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*Have you tried a drop of organic apple cider vinegar in the formula? If that isn't working then there could be a blockage/lesion slowing down digestion. Also canker can be there even if you can't see it. If it is canker it will only get worse.*


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## Butanding (Feb 22, 2013)

Also, there's a lot more information/pictures about him on the other thread "premature, blind baby pigeon?"

So, what can I do about slow crop? Do you think its because he hasn't been developmentally ready? I truely think (if there is such a thing) that he is premature. He just isn't on track. I know each bird is different, but I've hand reared a few and I've never seen a baby like this.


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## Butanding (Feb 22, 2013)

Thank you...I'll try the apple cider vinegar ( I just wasn't sure what proportion to use it in). I guess there could be a blockage...but he would have had to of hatched with it...some abnormality. As far as canker goes, no there is no evidence, but it is a possibility. I really thought that canker was something that developed after a slow crop, from the development of bacteria, but not really the cause of it. But still, its possible. None of the vets around here (southeast missouri) take birds...I would have to go a few hours to get ahold of some meds if cankers the case. But if it must be done...


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Butanding said:


> Also, there's a lot more information/pictures about him on the other thread "premature, blind baby pigeon?"
> 
> So, what can I do about slow crop? Do you think its because he hasn't been developmentally ready? I truely think (if there is such a thing) that he is premature. He just isn't on track. I know each bird is different, but I've hand reared a few and I've never seen a baby like this.


*We need the history, so continue to post on that thread and I will move this one.*


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

From personal experience you will need a really good vet to diagnose this little guy's issues. If he really has something genetic going on there is no sure way to make a diagnosis. He might be lacking some enzymes needed for metabolism, hard to tell which one though.
Kaytee has all the vitamins and minerals he needs to grow. Continue to give him small frequent meals, provide warmth and natural sunlight and apple cider vinegar in his food, once a day

Reti


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Butanding said:


> Thank you...I'll try the apple cider vinegar ( I just wasn't sure what proportion to use it in). I guess there could be a blockage...but he would have had to of hatched with it...some abnormality. As far as canker goes, no there is no evidence, but it is a possibility.* I really thought that canker was something that developed after a slow crop, from the development of bacteria, but not really the cause of it. *But still, its possible. None of the vets around here (southeast missouri) take birds...I would have to go a few hours to get ahold of some meds if cankers the case. But if it must be done...




Canker isn't caused by bacteria. It is a protozoan. And yes, it can cause slow crop by causing a blockage. Canker can by brought on by stress, or from the parents, when they feed the young. Many things can cause it. 


Canker ---------- By Dr. Colin Walker

Canker is an infectious protozoal disease that affects pigeons, doves and other birds. Most pigeons carry the organism in their crop and gullet; because of this adult birds have some immunity but its effectiveness is stress related.

The organism that causes canker is fragile and cannot survive for long outside the digestive tract and associated areas, but it can survive a day in water at 25 degrees C.

It is spread via water, via seed that has been taken up and dropped by an infected bird and by courtship food exchanges between adults. Parent birds will normally pass on small quantities of trichomonads to their young, giving them gradual exposure to the organism which helps them develop some immunity , but if the parent is stressed or has low immunity it can have an overload of trichomonads which - when passed to the youngster - will cause disease.

*Canker can block the oesophagus and the exit from the crop, causing death by starvation and dehydration. Prompt treatment is essential.
*


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## Butanding (Feb 22, 2013)

*For anyone who might have wondered:*

Little wren has survived! He is a little on the small side, blind in one eye, but he's a trooper! It actually has taken him until this last week to learn how to eat and drink on his own, but I'm so proud! I didn't know if he ever would. I don't think he was ever sick, I think he was just premature but he's more than well on his way!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I'm glad he survived. Very cute, but I would treat him for canker.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Butanding said:


> Thank you...I'll try the apple cider vinegar ( I just wasn't sure what proportion to use it in). I guess there could be a blockage...but he would have had to of hatched with it...some abnormality.* As far as canker goes, no there is no evidence, but it is a possibility. I really thought that canker was something that developed after a slow crop, from the development of bacteria, but not really the cause of it. But still, its possible. *None of the vets around here (southeast missouri) take birds...I would have to go a few hours to get ahold of some meds if cankers the case. But if it must be done...



No. Canker can be the cause of sour crop as it can cause a blockage in the crop. It isn't a bacteria or caused by bacteria. It is caused by trichomonads.
The organism is a microscopic flagellate classified as a protozoan.
He is showing signs of canker. The feathering, or lack of it on his throat and crop area.


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## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

OMG..He grew up !!!!
I would treat him for canker too. 
Which is the eye he cannot see?
Just thinking about canker and a pigeon i have with one eye blind, to whom the canker keeps coming back. I wonder if canker can make pigeons blind? Just wondering.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Ditto on treating for canker.


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## Butanding (Feb 22, 2013)

As bad as it is, he lost the feathers on his neck from constantly getting formula on his face. He's had multiple baths, but he would pick any remnants out along with the feathers out of irritation. I'm not sure if you can tell, but all new quills are developing there. He has an appointment to see a vet next week (no one would even bother seeing him before). 

If you dont mind, of my own research, I have not seen anything in his life history that pointed to canker, though I do trust everyone's judgement...but what are the symptoms? He eats frequently, poops frequently, and it looks normal. Also, his crop completely empties upon checking in the morning and I check his inner beak/ throat every few days to see if there is anything odd going on in there but have not seen anything. Is there some tell-tale sign I don't know about? Like his size or something? Also, the eye that was larger in the older photos is the one he has trouble with. I think he can see pretty decently out of the other though. He can sort through his food, and sees me walk by his cage.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Have it your way.


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## Butanding (Feb 22, 2013)

I'm sorry if I said something that offended you, I was not at all trying to be hostile. I was just asking your opinion, and why you thought that.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I'm not offended at all. I just give up. So often you give good advice on here, and people don't want to listen. It's like you need to convince them. Guess I'm just tired of that, and don't have the time. So, it's your bird..............do as you like. Good luck.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

After looking at the pictures..it sure looks to me like the pigeon has internal canker. One of the symptoms, in young pigeons, is the lack of feathers around the face/neck area.


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## treebeard (Oct 2, 2010)

Wow! Amazing.


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