# Pigeon with broken left femur in custody



## Kwikkordead (Jul 29, 2005)

I have an unfortunate little bird in a box here at work today. I think it couldn't get out of the way of a car and landed right in my doorway.
I don't have the time or the skills to fix this little guy up and need someone to come and rescue it ASAP. I don't want to have to put it down, but will do so to end a long suffering death if necessary.
I live in N. Seattle area and can meet someone halfway in between this evening if necessary.
It's an otherwise healthy young adult.
It squeaks like a young bird when I handle it, but am avoiding that as much as possible to avoid any more trauma.
It's in a closed box with adequite air and some water right now. It's not interested in drinking, I think it's too frightened to drink. It was trembling with shock on the sidewalk. It's not trembling now, but very afraid of my presence. So it's feral instincts are strong..

My work number is: 206-524-3366 Ask for Dan.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Dan,

The youngster is probably still in shock. Keep it in a warm draft free area in subdued light for now, you might give it some of the rehydrating formula. Limited mobility is best, and you might want to put a donut shape towel so it can get comfy.

Please check the following links:

http://www.tc.umn.edu/~devo0028/contactN.htm#wa

http://pigeon-life.net/prd.htm

http://aav.org/vet-lookup/

We have a rehabber/member, TerriB, on the forum who lives in Kent, are you anywhere near there?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

They are pretty close. Doesn't look like TerriB has been on in a couple of days so I emailed her with a link to the thread. You may have already done that but I didn't know.

Pidgey


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

Kent isnt far from Seattle...
is TerriB the one that owns Izze, the blind pigeon??


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

No, she doesn't own Izze. TerriB, owns pigeons and has rescued a youngster not too long ago.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Call PAWS and see if they can/will assist with a pigeon: http://www.paws.org/wildlife/injured/

Terry


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## Kwikkordead (Jul 29, 2005)

Paws will take it but will most likely put it down.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Kwikkordead said:


> Paws will take it but will most likely put it down.


Sorry to learn that .. hopefully Terri B will be along shortly.

Terry


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## Kwikkordead (Jul 29, 2005)

Anyone know how to get a hold of her locally?
I'm not asking to post her phone number or anything like that, but maybe someone here in the forum who knows her could try? The day is half over and I cannot see letting this poor bird suffer for days while I try and find someone.


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

trust me, i have a bird with a broken femur too, and have had him for a month. I just got him help, and they are very adaptable birds. the best thing would be to wait for TerriB, you will save this guy's life, so hopefully she'll be along shortly, but if she isnt, it will be fine to take him home, keep him in the box, throw some food and water in and wait for TerriB. 
i dont know if anyone knows how to get a hold of her??


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Kwikkordead, thanks for stepping in and helping this bird, I know your experienced in helping out the ferals in your area. Did you 
happen to check the first link that Terry gave and was PAWS the only 
place close by?

fp


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## Kwikkordead (Jul 29, 2005)

There's a couple that are within a reasonable driving distance.
Paws is the closest.
The next two are across a two hour drive and then a ferry boat ride, or drive across a mountain pass.
It's not making any "I'm in pain" noises so I guess if they are that resiliant I'll let some time go by.
It's not touching it's water, neither can it stand to poo so it's soiling itself.
I've got it sitting on a nest of clean shop rags for now.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Kwikkordead, for now if you could call the ones within reasonable driving
distance and ask what their policy is on treating pigeons, & will they put down if not releasable, that would be great. Also,
if this bird is unreleasable, would you be into keeping this pij as a pet?

For comfort for the bird, get an old towel or the like and make a donut of
sorts w/it so that pressure is gotten off the pigeon's legs. Then put the bowl
of water next to pijie on the donut so that it can reach it from it's supported
position. This does depend on some cooperation from the pij itself--like staying
on the donut. You'll have to see how it goes. After that the next step would
be a sling of sorts. Gotta run for now but will check back later. Others will
be along to help you along.

TerriB is on w/regularity so if you & pij can hanguntil something is lined up, it would be great.

fp


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

I've sent Terri a private e-mail ..

Terry


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

yes, the best thing will be to wait for Terri. she should be on soon, she visits the site often...


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## Kwikkordead (Jul 29, 2005)

Yes I am waiting for Terry.
My shop number is 206-524-3366
cell 206-595-7597
Ask for Dan.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Dan,

Back again, were you able to speak w/the two places that you mentioned 
earlier as being a reasonable car drive away about treating pigeons? 

How's your little one doing so far, drunk any water yet? Terri, far as I can remember is ususally on in the evening after dinner. I'm going to send her a link to the single post that you just gave w/your contact info.

fp


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## Kwikkordead (Jul 29, 2005)

feralpigeon said:


> Hi Dan,
> 
> Back again, were you able to speak w/the two places that you mentioned
> earlier as being a reasonable car drive away about treating pigeons?
> ...


Emailed one of them with the situation, no reply.
Talked to the other one at the other end of the ferry boat ride. They said they would take it but I simply don't have that much time. It would be a long time to accomplish that task.

I don't think it's taken any water and it's positioned for easy access.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

OK, sorry about your time constraints, Dan....

Here's the AAV link to Washington state:

http://aav.org/vet-lookup/locate-vet2.php?query_field=state&search_string=WA

You'll know if any are close by. Sometimes an avian vet will treat a feral @
no charge if you will sign them over to them. Then they treat and release or find a home, you can ask questions when you call if you want to have a backup
contingency plan in the event Terri doesn't log on tonight. So far, she's had 
3 pm's from here that I've counted from volunteering members.

fp


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## Kwikkordead (Jul 29, 2005)

*Well............................*

8:00 PM.
Pigeon is home with me in a box with food and water and nestled in some soft rags for now.
It's not touching either one and it can reach both.
Humph.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

TerriB will be on shortly .. hang in there folks! She's willing to help if she can.

Terry


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

I just spoke with Dan and am heading out to meet him to pick up the bird. More later. Thanks, all!


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

TerriB said:


> I just spoke with Dan and am heading out to meet him to pick up the bird. More later. Thanks, all!


  Boy! TerriB is quick! Thank you Terri and Dan! We'll look forward to an update when you have time Terri. 

Terry


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## Kwikkordead (Jul 29, 2005)

*The bird is now in safe hands.*

Thank you very much for coming out on such short notice Terry.  
This bird's condition was WAY beyond anything that I could have done for it.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Wow, thanks Terry and Terri and especially you Dan for seeing the need and
rising to the occasion to get the bird into good hands.

Look forward to your updates Terri as you get the opportunity  .

fp

Dan, thanks again for helping this pigeon out.


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

look forward to some pics, too, when you get the time, of course!!!
thanks Terri and Terry!! and of course Dan, for being as patient as you could be, considering the circumstances!!! 
many people would of given up hope or left him there, or even kicked or spat on him, so you truly are a GREEEAAATTT person!!!! 
YOU GUYS ARE AWESOME!! (oh, and GIRLS, OF COURSE!!!)

good luck TERRIB, and the little guy's gonna need some too...


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Folks, I am tired and am going to bed . I think this is all well handled now .. I now have two rats named Tom and Jerry to care for .. also all my usuals .. I'll see you folks tomorrow

Many thanks Dan and Terri for making this happen!

Terry


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Okay, brief update. First of all, thank you SO MUCH, Dan, for rescuing this bird and being willing to make the late drive to our halfway meeting point (Boeing's Museum of Flight - is that ironic or what?!?). Dan's initial assessment is right on. This is a young bird, bright and alert. Although fully feathered, his cere/wattle is just starting to whiten up. His left leg seems to be broken and there may be some damage to the left wing and possibly the keel. On the drive home, he produced three small bright green poops and his crop felt empty. 

He can't move off heat, so he is in a towel donut in a small crate in the warm bathroom. Dan didn't think the bird drank anything while he had him, so I offered this new bird warm water in a nipple (a la Phil). It took a bit of encouragement, but then he took a good long drink. (Yeah!) I cooked up a bit of Kaytee Exact and put a tiny bit of that in more warm water and he drank down some of that, then politely refused anymore.

Don't want to stress him too much with further exam so I'll see how he is in the morning. My avian vet is back from sabbatical so that is an option.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

WELL DONE, Terri and Dan!!!

We are all looking forward to updates Terri!

Sending HUGS and WARM HEALING THOUGHTS!


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Once again......PT members to the rescue. What a GREAT job folks........sounds like this little one had a REALLY bad day. Hope he's well very soon......


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Great teamwork. Bless you all.
Terri, good luck with this sweetie. Please keep us updated.

Reti


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Thank you TerriB and Dan. I'm so glad to see the update.


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## Kwikkordead (Jul 29, 2005)

I have a picture on my work computer, I'll post it when I get a minute today.


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## Kwikkordead (Jul 29, 2005)

Here's the little guy sitting on the rag nest that I made for it.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

WOW, that is ONE beautiful pijie!


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

He is beautiful and looks like he knows he is safe. 
That's one lucky bird.


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

He's bright and alert this morning. We have a vet appointment at 11.

I'd like to rig him up a towel sling so he can poop cleanly. I did a quick search but couldn't find the thread that showed a picture. Anybody remember that one to direct me?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Phil was gracious enough to post a good show-and-tell in Licha's thread about how Pirate became... Pirate! Actually, it's probably better to start here and then continue through the thread further for more pictures and explanation:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?p=142493

Pidgey


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Thanks for the link, Pidgey! The vet was impressed by the sling. 

The examining veterinarian said the bird has a broken upper leg and broken wing. They will gavage some food into him today with surgery set for tomorrow. If the leg break is near the joint, things become more complicated.


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

OH!!! poor little guy!! how old is he TerriB? thanks for takin' him under your "wing" so to speak! pardon the pun... 
is he still making squeaking sounds?? well, i wish BOTH of you luck, and let us know how it all works out....


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Best of luck tomorrow.

Reti


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Yes Terri, thank you and Dan, nice rescue, thanks as well.

Good luck,

Ron


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## Kwikkordead (Jul 29, 2005)

.......... and a broken wing as well?!?!?
I never would have guessed it was extending and flapping both wings when I picked it up.
Poor little bird, it must have taken a hard hit.


I never saw what happened, I just turned around and there it was sitting in the middle of the sidewalk, belly down on the sidewalk, wings extended, trembling a lot and looking around. Bobbing it's head like it was in a panic.


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## Kwikkordead (Jul 29, 2005)

TerriB said:


> Thanks for the link, Pidgey! The vet was impressed by the sling.
> 
> The examining veterinarian said the bird has a broken upper leg and broken wing. They will gavage some food into him today with surgery set for tomorrow. *If the leg break is near the joint, things become more complicated*.


When I felt it's leg, it seemed to me that it was broken right next to the joint. I couldn't feel any bone extending from the knee at all. Just the little ball of a joint, then the break, then the bone.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Which bone? Which joint?

I'm pretty sure that's what happened to X-er. He was in bad shape when I found him. He can't fly but he can walk just fine.

Pidgey


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## Kwikkordead (Jul 29, 2005)

TerryB is going to be the final answer on this one because she has the bird under professional care.
All I could find was a femur. The break was immediatly above the knee from what I could tell.
I never examined it's wings as they were flapping like mad when I picked it up, so I assumed they were all ok. The left wing was a little bit angled back in comparison to the right one, now that I think about it.


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

xxmoxiexx said:


> ...how old is he TerriB?... is he still making squeaking sounds??...


I think a few months old - fully feathered, but cere just starting to whiten up. Still willing to sip from a nipple with parental-type encouragement. Not squeaking, remarkably calm as long as I wasn't trying to move him. Just looking around with interest.



Kwikkordead said:


> ... and a broken wing as well?!?!? I never would have guessed it was extending and flapping both wings when I picked it up.... Poor little bird, it must have taken a hard hit.
> I never saw what happened, I just turned around and there it was sitting in the middle of the sidewalk, belly down on the sidewalk, wings extended, trembling a lot and looking around. Bobbing it's head like it was in a panic.


Although the wing drooped a bit, he was able to extend and retract it. You probably saw him very shortly after the accident. Very lucky for that bird!!!



Pidgey said:


> Which bone? Which joint?
> I'm pretty sure that's what happened to X-er. He was in bad shape when I found him. He can't fly but he can walk just fine.
> Pidgey


(Can't quickly find a file with the skeleton labeled, but the bone names are probably the same as for dogs and horses.) The metatarsus was fine, so it's one of the long bones closer to the body. I'll get more details tomorrow from the specialist.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thank you soooo much for your help with this Terri! It's greatly appreciated by all of us and certainly by the pigeon  

Terry


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Here's the skeletal drawings:

http://people.eku.edu/ritchisong/skeleton.html

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Terri, you really are a pigeon Guardian Angel, thanks for taking over for Dan
and getting this pigeon in pieces medical care. Sure sounds like it was one
bad accident.

fp


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## Kwikkordead (Jul 29, 2005)

And to the kind gentleman that I just talked to on the phone from Chicago: thank you for taking an interest in fixing up this bird.
I don't know who you are on this board, but thanks again.



.

Folks, I am impressed with the amount of interest that you all have in caring for and protecting the pigeons. You all are great people!


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Kwikkordead said:


> And to the kind gentleman that I just talked to on the phone from Chicago: thank you for taking an interest in fixing up this bird.
> I don't know who you are on this board, but thanks again.
> 
> 
> ...


I know what you mean. I am CONSTANTLY amazed at the "saves" that come from this web site. It's absolutely heartwarming and when you get down and feel like no one cares........just come here and read some of what goes on and you know that you are wrong. 
The amazing thing is, not only do the members here REALLY care about the animals.......they REALLY and TRULY care about each other and extended families.


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

The little feral made it through the anesthesia and having the splints applied (yeah!). The fractures did not involve the joints (whew!) which is good news. The clinic wants to keep him a few days to get his health stablized. I'll call tomorrow morning for an update.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Great news, Terri. Thanks for the update.

Reti


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi TerriB,

What a wonderful update. Most excellent!  

Thank you for helping this youngster.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Great news! My question is this, was the pigeon's treatment provided free by the clinic or is the responsibility yours ? 
I'm happy to make a contribution if needed.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Charis said:


> Great news! My question is this, was the pigeon's treatment provided free by the clinic or is the responsibility yours ?
> I'm happy to make a contribution if needed.



Terri, this is great news especially that the fractures did not involve the joints.

Like Charis, I would like to know who is springing for this and if we need to 
start a donation fund to defray the costs. Please do let us know.

fp


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Today's report:
One day post-surgery and young feral is looking perkier. He is being fed by gavage since he is not self-feeding. They want him to gain some weight. He is also receiving antibiotics. When I call tomorrow for the update I'll ask for an estimate of the charges.

I wanted to be sure the clinic treated this bird as a pet and pets have names, so he is registered as Cassidy (as in Hopalong). What do you think, Dan?


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Well, done, Terri! Cassidy it is, and please do let us know the charges, and we will help out. You got blind sided with this one (bombarded, actually)  

Terry


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

OH!! that is soooo awesome!! so this place wont treat a pigeon if it is a wild feral? they only treat pets?? 
well, all of us are pulling for little Cassidy, and it's a great name! how long will he be in the hospital??


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Count me in on the financing too. E-mail or PM me. Great job everyone!


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## Kwikkordead (Jul 29, 2005)

Cassidy sounds great.
I'll pitch in on the charges as well. I didn't even think about that when I gave you the bird that night.
Just to set the record straight: I have no interest in having Cassidy for my pet. Some of you might think that I would want to claim that because I found it. I gave up any rights to that when I turned it over to Terry.
And beside all that, I have a lot of allergies that prevent me from having any pets. But that doesn't mean I don't care about them. I simply cannot have them in my house, and in many cases cannot even be downwind of certain animals. Going to the Zoo for me is out of the question. 
So far (cross my fingers) birds of any kind do not effect me. But I am not going to push my luck.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Kwikkordead said:


> Cassidy sounds great.
> I'll pitch in on the charges as well. I didn't even think about that when I gave you the bird that night.
> Just to set the record straight: I have no interest in having Cassidy for my pet. Some of you might think that I would want to claim that because I found it. I gave up any rights to that when I turned it over to Terry.
> And beside all that, I have a lot of allergies that prevent me from having any pets. But that doesn't mean I don't care about them. I simply cannot have them in my house, and in many cases cannot even be downwind of certain animals. Going to the Zoo for me is out of the question.
> So far (cross my fingers) birds of any kind do not effect me. But I am not going to push my luck.


Dan, considering all of this, you are one "H*ll of a Trooper" for being the 
fairly constant member that you are here and helping with pigeons in need in your area. I wish we could do something to help you with your allergies!!!

fp


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## Kwikkordead (Jul 29, 2005)

feralpigeon said:


> Dan, considering all of this, you are one "H*ll of a Trooper" for being the
> fairly constant member that you are here and helping with pigeons in need in your area. I wish we could do something to help you with your allergies!!!
> 
> fp


Prayer always helps.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Terri,

How is Cassidy doing? I've been thinking about you and this bird as well as your other little feral charge. Would love to have an update on both.

Terry


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

I just got the word today that I can bring Cassidy home tomorrow afternoon! I'll meet with the vet to get briefed on continuing care, but it seems like he has stablized but is still on antibiotics and still not excited about eating. The latter is a bit of a concern, but I'll have more details tomorrow.

(I moved the information regarding the Feral One (Tony) to his thread for continuity - http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=17807).

I do have a concern regarding keeping the two ferals isolated. I don't want to restrict Tony's flight practice, so Cassidy may need to be in the garage for the time being. I can set him up with a heat source if needed. Any comments or suggestions appreciated!


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thanks for the update on both the birds, Terri. Please do not be shy about telling us the vet charges .. I suspect you've been pretty whammed with Cassidy's bill. Several of us would like to help, so just let us know what's going on in that regard.

It sounds like Tony is pretty good to go .. what a wonderful job you have done with him and also in getting him acclimated for release.

Any prognosis yet for Cassidy with regard to being releasable or one that needs to find a permanent home?

Terry


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

I just read this thread for the first time and want Dan and TerriB to know how happy I am that Cassidy's outlook now looks pretty good. You two have done a remarkable job in this rescue.


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Thanks for all the nice comments! I picked Cassidy up this afternoon (to the tune of $710!)

Both the radius and ulna bones in the left wing were broken. Initally they stablized the wing with a mesh panel so the wing was semi-extended, now a more traditional wrap (with pink vetrap).

The left tibiotarsus was broken just above the lower joint. It is a "folding" break - the two ends meet and bend away in the same direction. In a much larger animal (horse or dog), they might put a pin in. With a small bird, that would be more likely to cause further damage to the long bone. Wrapped
in standing position (with purple vetrap).

The right leg has some soft tissue damage and he tends to carry it pulled up toward his center, rather than directly under him. The vet suggested gentle 
range of motion and encouraging him to "stand" on it, with support.

They gave him a long lasting antibiotic injection, so that's one less thing to deal with. They gavaged him shortly before I picked him up, but I did pop a few peas down his throat, since he still needs to put on some weight.

Having difficulty figuring out how to set him up comfortably. The bandaged leg pretty much requires a standing position. I fiddled with a sling, but couldn't get the proportions right. So for now, he's in a donut of rolled towel, with a washcloth over him for comfort. Earlier, I did some gentle grooming around his head and face which he seemed to enjoy.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Terri, I don't know if this is sounding too complicated, but maybe you should start a new thread with the title being Help w/Surgery Bill or the like. Then it
won't get lost in here. I don't know how you would like to get your personal
information out to folks either. You could state this in the thread--maybe have folks submit their intention of help and you contact them through PM.

Just some thoughts, but I think you need to be specific and deal w/it in it's
own thread so that this issue doesn't get lost in the shuffle here. And yes, I would like to help as well. That's alot of $$$ to have to put out unexpectedly.

fp


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Terri,

Thanks so much for the update. OUCH on the vet bill. Please let those of us who want to and who can help you with this cost do so. Kindly let me know where we can send our contributions to Cassidy's cause. Just PM me and those who want to help can let me know by PM, and I will PM them the info.

Bless you for doing this!

Terry


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi Terri,

Thanks for being there for this bird. Here are a few links that might help:

With all of these, maybe some seeds and water on a raised stand within easy reach.

http://www.redroselofts.com/braveheart.htm 

Phil has been successful with his slings:
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=17378
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=16274
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=14367

I hope this helps a bit, all the best,

Ron


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

feralpigeon said:


> Terri, I don't know if this is sounding too complicated, but maybe you should start a new thread with the title being Help w/Surgery Bill or the like.
> fp


Great idea! I'm a bit overwhelmed with dealing with the new bird. (Thanks for implementing that, Terry!  )



TAWhatley said:


> ...Just PM me and those who want to help can let me know by PM, and I will PM them the info.
> Terry


Will do, thank you so much!!



jazaroo said:


> ...Here are a few links that might help:
> 
> With all of these, maybe some seeds and water on a raised stand within easy reach.
> 
> ...


Ron, thanks for the links! I'm still fiddling with how to set him up.


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

*Cassidy Update*

After much fiddling, I figured out a way to accommodate the leg cast, gympy leg, and cast wing. I still want to set up a sling, which will help with the leg with soft tissue damage, but that will wait till I have a bit more time.

Luckily, Cassidy is quite happy having peas, corn, and soaked dog food popped down his throat. He takes sips of water from the nipple when offered. So getting food into him is easy. I've been including a probiotic pearl with each meal. I offered a little bowl of seed and demonstrated pecking with my finger. He picked up a small seed, but dropped it. I leave some small seeds where he can reach them to practice his technique.

The right leg (with soft tissue damage) is worrisome, since he wants to curl it across under his body. This evening, I was able to manuveur it so it flexed correctly and held him with that foot "perching" on my finger. I think the sling will be helpful with this.

I've been doing gentle grooming on his head and neck and he clearly enjoyes that. Also seems to like having a hand or washcloth over him while napping. There are so many things that I've learned from the experiences you all have shared, and Cassidy is benefitting from them. So we both THANK YOU ALL!!!


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Sounds like you have things going the right way for Cassidy. How about some pics?

Thank you again for all you have done for this pigeon.

Terry


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## Kwikkordead (Jul 29, 2005)

Sounds like Cassidy would make a good pet to someone if it, (any determination on male/female?) is not releasable. It doesn't mind human interaction at all and from the sounds of it will learn to enjoy it.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Anatomy skeleton file*

Hello *Dan / Kwikkordead*, and others,

I'm a bit late reading this thread. 

The weblink reference to a bird skeleton provided by *Pidgey* is the best and most detailed I have come across yet, but I also like the educational interactive skeleton this weblink provides:

http://www.biosci.ohio-state.edu/~jcondit/current/skeletal_system/Skeleton.swf

You click on the names to highlight the bones of the bird skeleton. It is not as detailed as Pidgey's reference, but it is a great learnng tool for beginners, and a good refreshing tool.

You can look at the name of the bone, see if you know which one of the bones in the drawing it is, then click to see the bone highlighted in red to verify.

Someone like Pidgey who has so much experience with the terminology will not find the chart so useful as a beginner. The chart was designed as a learning tool for university students of the Ohio State biosciences. 

As I said previously, Pidgey's reference has everything this link shows, but I like different presentations of the same topic, with different graphics, of varing complexity. Sometimes I like to warm up with something simple, re-read the same thing in more detail, and finally get the topic down pat with several more difficult presentations. It makes for less boredom when one is tired. 

Larry


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

*Peas Still In Crop*

Bit of a problem/question. Looks like I misjudged Cassidy's stage of development. When I went to feed him this morning, I could still feel a few peas low in his crop. Guess I need to avoid the larger food for now and just feed him Kaytee Exact and small seeds. How long do I wait for the peas to move on? How do I know when it's time to escalate things? Thanks!


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Uhh... Larry? That link was originally posted (to the best of my knowledge) in a thread by Terry. It's in the Resources section as a sticky way down there entitled "Excellent Drawings of Avian Skeleton":

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=11114

For simplicity, I usually just copy-and-paste the actual link when a broken bone is suspected and we're trying to figure out which one.

Pidgey


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Pigeon skeleton link*

Hello Pidgey, 

Since you mention it, I do now recall that I knew in the back of my head that the link is in the sticky as you mentioned.

I did not remember who the original supplier of the link was, since I had temporarily forgotten where it was pasted. 

I do remember that you ususally cut and paste this particular link to make it easier for everyone, and I think it is a great idea. 

With my old fuzzy-resolution computer CRT monitor, I found some detailed illustrations hard or impossible to read. No longer, with my fairly new MacBook Pro 17" laptop and its wonderful screen, and now a DSL internet conection. But not everyone has the latest equipment, which gets outdated quickly enough. 

I do a lot of click-drag-and-drop pasting of webliks into bookmarks, and it is a bit of a jumble. Do you or anyone els who reads this have any favorite organizing programs which store bookmaks, images, text snippets, etc? i read a couple of years ago about some organizing and outlining programs which were also avaialble for the Mac.

Back to the skeleton and topic: Harvard University with others, sponsored by the government, developed a computer model for the pigeon not so long ago. I haven't been able to track down more detailed information, but it sems this model should be made available to the public, since to the best of my recollection they used government funding. 

ah, found a link:

http://www.livescience.com/animalworld/061218_bird_shoulder.html

image: 

http://www.livescience.com/php/mult...+flight.+Credit:+David+Baier/Brown+University

I downloaded a file a while back which showed a computerized mouse with removable parts. The mouse could be rotated on three axes, and each organ or group of organs viewed from any angle. It was a map of the completed mouse genome.

It would be nice if we could have an interactive pigeon animation showng all organs and systems together or individually. It will come someday.

best regards, 

Larry


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

TerriB said:


> Bit of a problem/question. Looks like I misjudged Cassidy's stage of development. When I went to feed him this morning, I could still feel a few peas low in his crop. Guess I need to avoid the larger food for now and just feed him Kaytee Exact and small seeds. How long do I wait for the peas to move on? How do I know when it's time to escalate things? Thanks!


Hi Terri,

It's now about 4:30 PM .. if the peas haven't cleared the crop by now, we should start making sure Cassidy gets plenty of fluids and might want to syringe about 5 cc's of baking soda water down or some ACV water. Please keep us posted.

Terry


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi Terri,

Sorry to hear Cassidy is having a little trouble. I just wanted to add on to Terry's post. You may already know, but you make baking soda water with 1 teaspoon of baking soda to 1 cup of plain water. If you do decide to use some ACV water as well, I would start the next day to be safe, as it will react with the baking soda water.

Also, you can try gently massaging the crop to help things move along, this has done the trick for me on a few occasions..

I hope this helps,

Ron


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

TerriB said:


> Bit of a problem/question. Looks like I misjudged Cassidy's stage of development. When I went to feed him this morning, I could still feel a few peas low in his crop. Guess I need to avoid the larger food for now and just feed him Kaytee Exact and small seeds. How long do I wait for the peas to move on? How do I know when it's time to escalate things? Thanks!



Terri, according to Colin Walker, for slow crop you can give fennel tea--the same strength that you would brew and drink for yourself as their water:

http://www.auspigeonco.com.au/Articles/slow_crop.html

Just something to keep in mind in addition to other suggestions regarding slow
crop. Hopefully it is only 'slow crop' and not another health issue in addition
to the slow crop as Walker cites.

Also, are you noticing any odors w/the droppings? Sounds like you have already thought of the remedy.....Formula (maybe a tad thinner that what
Cassidy has been getting) and making small seeds available. You might also 
want to give supplemental water between feedings as well.

Thanks again for taking Cassidy in and nursing this injured bird through it's
rough times.

fp


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

jazaroo said:


> Hi Terri,
> 
> Sorry to hear Cassidy is having a little trouble. I just wanted to add on to Terry's post. You may already know, but you make baking soda water with 1 teaspoon of baking soda to 1 cup of plain water. If you do decide to use some ACV water as well, I would start the next day to be safe, as it will react with the baking soda water.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Ron .. I should have made that very clear that is was one or the other and not both.

Terry


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Thanks for the suggestion, Terry, I'll try the baking soda water first. He's been sipping warm water every hour or so but I'll probably have to syringe baking soda water.

Thanks for the proportions, Ron. I've been massaging his crop, which he seems to find...interesting. ("Ohh, and what is that you're doing?") The good news is that his poops look good, although still fairly soft.

Two other complications the vet mentioned, which I forgot to include:
The leg that isn't broken is dislocated at the hip. The vet suggested doing physical therapy to encourage him to hold it normally. Cassidy tends to flail wildly (trying to get comfortable?) and that leg would end up sticking straight crosswise under his body. When holding him, I could put that leg in a normal sitting position, with his foot laying on my finger. This evening, I gently folded that leg in a normal reclining position and loosely taped it to his body. Does this need to be addressed more directly?

The x-rays showed there is a piece of metal in his gut. It looked maybe 1/2" in diameter (would a foil gum wrapper show up on an x-ray?) and doesn't seem to have moved during the week he was at the vet's. Any ideas on this one?

I went to some effort to create a sling that would support him, but he immediately flailed right out of it - would have taken a nose dive if I wasn't right there. So for now, he either lays in the crate (heat available) or I hold him.


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## Kwikkordead (Jul 29, 2005)

TerriB said:


> Thanks for the suggestion, Terry, I'll try the baking soda water first. He's been sipping warm water every hour or so but I'll probably have to syringe baking soda water.
> 
> Thanks for the proportions, Ron. I've been massaging his crop, which he seems to find...interesting. ("Ohh, and what is that you're doing?") The good news is that his poops look good, although still fairly soft.
> 
> ...


That gum wrapper can't be good. Especially if it's not moving. That would explain the slow crop as there is a good chance of a blocked intestine or something.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

TerriB said:


> This evening, I gently folded that leg in a normal reclining position and loo..........
> 
> The x-rays showed there is a piece of metal in his gut. It looked maybe 1/2" in diameter .......and doesn't seem to have moved during the week he was at the vet's. Any ideas on this one? * Where in the gut is it? Has it perforated anything or just is in the body cavity or intestine?*
> 
> I went to some effort to create a sling that would support him, but he immediately flailed right out of it - would have taken a nose dive if I wasn't right there. So for now, he either lays in the crate (heat available) or I hold him.


*Well, he sounds like a character and glad to hear he has a bit of the spunk in him.

fp*


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Kwikkordead said:


> That gum wrapper can't be good. Especially if it's not moving. That would explain the slow crop as there is a good chance of a blocked intestine or something.


That is my concern, also.



feralpigeon said:


> *Where in the gut is it? Has it perforated anything or just is in the body cavity or intestine?
> fp*


On the x-ray, it was in the exact center of the bird. He seems bright and alert.

In massaging the crop, I was surprised and how low the bottom attaches!


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

*Hardware Disease*

I took Cassidy to see my regular avian veterinarian today. The right (non-splinted) leg had a break at the joint, the exterior ligament was torn, and the patella (kneecap) was rotated to the left. More critically, and what was probably causing Cassidy to flail around in so much pain, is the piece of metal that showed up on the xray. In searching for food, he had evidently picked up and swallowed a small fragment off some machine. It got as far as his proventriculus, then couldn't fit through the opening into the gizzard. We discussed the options (not many) and the prognosis (not good) and decided to euthanize him to end his suffering. I held Cassidy for the several minutes it took for the injection to take effect. He was very relaxed and peaceful while I petted and groomed on him. I asked the veterinarian to do a necropsy so at least I could learn from Cassidy's death. He was a beautiful male pigeon, just no match for machinery. I really appreciate all the support and information posted. Sorry we couldn't save this one, Dan.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Incredibly heart breaking. Thanks for all you did. You are a hero.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

How terrible heartbreaking, Terri! I am so sorry! I know all of us who have been following this thread are just devastated! 

Rest In Peace, Cassidy.

LOVE AND HUGS Terri and and Dan!


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Ohhhh Terri .. I am so very sorry about Cassidy. What an incredibly little hard luck and bad luck bird. I'm just devastated that you had to see Cassidy through his last minutes .. I am so very sorry. Thank you so much for all you did to help Cassidy.

Thank you for all you did, and please do let us know about the necropsy. 

Terry


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

TerriB,

I am so sorry to hear about Cassidy. I know this had to be incredibly heartbreaking after everything he went thru.

Thank you for everything you did for him, and making the right choice for him.


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Terri, I am so sorry, this truly is heartbreaking news to hear. God bless you for all you did for Cassidy and for being there for him in the his last moments.

Ron


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Terri, I am heartbroken to read this today. This little one had captured our hearts and hopes. I was really concerned though when I read about the lead/metal in his gut and was so afraid that it would cause irreparable damage.

You absolutely did the right thing in ending his suffering.

Love and gratitude to you (and Dan) for at least trying to save Cassidy.


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## Kwikkordead (Jul 29, 2005)

I guess the only good that can be had from this is that Cassidy was spared a long starving death in the wild and being eaten by crows, had he not had the encounter with a car. His injuries brought him into some sheltered places and was spared that agony.
Crows do attack and eat smaller/weaker birds. I've witnessed it right in front of my shop door.


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Bless all of you who take time and love to comfort God's creatures. I'm sure little Cassidy was much more comfortable in his last days than he would have been by being left like so much trash to die a miserable, slow death. He was warm, safe from further harm, and surrounded by love. What more can any of us ask. 
Somewhere Cassidy is flying free and easy. Thanks to those who gave him his wings.
Tears and feather hugs, Mary


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

That was very well said, Mary.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

*Farewell Cassidy*

Terri,

I am sorry to hear of the outcome, but I feel grateful to you and all who helped with him, and am glad that his final minutes were peaceful.

I know it is too late for my speculation, but after the necropsy can you ask your vet about the size and shape of the piece of metal, and if it were magnetic. Just a wild thought for the future if we should come across the same issue. Could the metal have been wiggled upwards with a maqnet? I seriously doubt it, but like I said, just a wild idea for the future. The piece of metal, as you say, was in the proventriculus, and if I have the anatomy correct, that would inside or past the bony "collar" or pectoral girdle formed by the clavicles (collarbones) attaching to the scapulas (shoulder blades), the coracoid and the spine? If the metal were sharp-edged or pointed, or had corners, then it wouldn't work.

Perhaps my imagination is overworking. Don't want to get you too busy with this. Actually, it looks a bit silly, but I guess I will leave it.

Sometimes there is a time for quietness, after a death. If you don't want to respond to this, fine, I understand and agree completely.

Larry


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## pigeonmama (Jan 9, 2005)

Terri,
You sure tried your hardest to give this poor little'un a chance for a good life. I don't know of any one who could have done more or better. Poor baby, at least he is not suffering, and was assisted over the rainbow bridge gently, with loving hands.
Daryl


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Terri, I'm sorry to read about Cassidy and know that in the moment w/the medical facts accumulating, you made a loving and caring choice.

Mary, you expressed it very well, it's hard to improve on your words.

fp


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

TAWhatley said:


> ...I'm just devastated that you had to see Cassidy through his last minutes...
> Terry


Actually, it was very calm and peaceful. The injection was IM, so it took effect very gradually. I've held numerous animals being euthanized, and this was so very gentle.



Kwikkordead said:


> I guess the only good that can be had from this is that Cassidy was spared a long starving death in the wild and being eaten by crows, had he not had the encounter with a car....


Yes, I totally agree with you. His keel was sharp, so I think he swallowed the metal several days prior, being young and inexperienced. Perhaps his hunger made him less aware and responsive, which is why he didn't get out of the way of the car. You were in the right place and the right time for this little bird. I am so glad you did what you did.



Larry_Cologne said:


> ...after the necropsy can you ask your vet about the size and shape of the piece of metal, and if it were magnetic...
> Larry


Thank you all for your kind words. The doctor was very respectful and supportive, asked if I wanted to be present for the euthanasia (yes) and the necropsy (yes). The necropsy was done right there, once we were sure Cassidy was completely gone. The inner workings of a bird are so amazingly delicate. Interesting idea, Larry. The piece of debris in his proventriculus seemed to be of white metal, relatively light, so probably not magnetic. One side was sharp, as if it had sheared off. Nasty thing to swallow.

The end result is not what I had hoped for, but I think it was the most merciful thing for this little bird.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi TerriB,

Thank you for sharing his last moments and the necropsy.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Terri, thank you for the update. I know it was difficult to go through the euthanasia process and also the necropsy. How large was the piece of metal?


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

From what you said about the piece of metal, Terri, especially with one side being sharp, I think euthanasia was a wise decision. Sure am glad you had an X-ray done!

Again, thank you for all your kindness! 

Do you still need help with expenses? Please let us know...


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Lady Tarheel said:


> ...How large was the piece of metal?


About the size of the end joint of your little finger. He must have thought he found an nice big piece of food, probably grabbed and swallowed quickly before another bird could grab it away from him. 



mr squeaks said:


> ...Do you still need help with expenses? Please let us know...


I think enough has been sent, thank you. Folks have been so generous, it just amazes me.


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Oh Terri, I just read the news, and am so very sorry about your little Cassidy. 

You and Kwikkordead are to be commended for going "above and beyond" to help save Cassidy.

You did all you could do, and you made the right decision. Cassidy passed in loving and caring hands.


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Thank you, Victor. So many folks here, like yourself, do what is necessary to provide the best situation possible for these birds.


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