# Trying to ship tomorrow, any more advice?



## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

Ok, its supposed to be a high of 47 and low of 30 tomorrow, one box going to tulsa, on to california. 
Is that ok to ship?
Also, one bird has one leg, so i'm going to tape a nest in his portion of box. Is there anything else i need to know about shipping these birds? Preparing the boxes? What about the birds, do i tube feed them something before hand?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

xxmoxiexx said:


> Ok, its supposed to be a high of 47 and low of 30 tomorrow, one box going to tulsa, on to california.
> Is that ok to ship?
> Also, one bird has one leg, so i'm going to tape a nest in his portion of box. Is there anything else i need to know about shipping these birds? Preparing the boxes? What about the birds, do i tube feed them something before hand?


Since you can and do tube feed, then it would be beneficial for the birds to tube a little water into them just before you box them up. I know a fancier out in Oregon who does this to every bird he ships. Other than that, they should be just fine.


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

Renee, do you tape any paper towels to the bottom of box? Do you put seed in the box? Like some scattered seed, in case they get stranded?
Is the weather part ok to you? The temperature i mean?
Can you tell i'm a BIT frantic about this! I've been worrying over it for MONTHS now!


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

xxmoxiexx said:


> Renee, do you tape any paper towels to the bottom of box? Do you put seed in the box? Like some scattered seed, in case they get stranded?
> Is the weather part ok to you? The temperature i mean?
> Can you tell i'm a BIT frantic about this! I've been worrying over it for MONTHS now!


The temps should be fine. There's really no need to put any seeds in the box. It's dark in the box, even if they are sitting in daylight and even darker when in a truck or on a plane. Just let them eat all they want between now and tomorrow. They'll be fine. They would just poop in and on the seeds anyway. They really don't need food in the box. The water is THE most important thing and if you can tube some water into them, then I'm SURE they'll be fine. 
I also put a few handfulls of wood chips in the bottom of the box. You can use pine needles or even shredded paper. Put something in there though so they aren't on just the cardboard. 
And stop worrying _so much_. You can worry a little tiny bit, because we all do when we ship a bird, but not TOO MUCH......LOL


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

ok Renee, but i'm allowed, i'm a virgin! Shipping virgin!! LOL!
Ok, i agree they should be fine, but the incompetency the main post office has shown so far JUST talking to them about shipping is what worries me the most! They seem like total morons!


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## Snowbird Sue (Dec 31, 2007)

xxmoxiexx said:


> ok Renee, but i'm allowed, i'm a virgin! Shipping virgin!! LOL!
> Ok, i agree they should be fine, but the incompetency the main post office has shown so far JUST talking to them about shipping is what worries me the most! They seem like total morons!


And I thought our post office was bad! Whewwww! There IS a worst one,eh?


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

yes, they are VERY bad! I have been quoted prices ranging from $30 to $150 to ship, been told so many wrong things, it amazes me!


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## Snowbird Sue (Dec 31, 2007)

xxmoxiexx said:


> yes, they are VERY bad! I have been quoted prices ranging from $30 to $150 to ship, been told so many wrong things, it amazes me!


Ooooooh! That IS bad! Good Luck tomorrow!


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

ok, i was hoping for better weather, it is low of 24, high 40, and raining. I forget, are they in a heated cabin or not?
Its supposed to snow tomorrow, we'll see what the crappy PO says!!!


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## rock (Jun 29, 2007)

They are birds, they will survive those mild temps.


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

Rock, they are inside birds...


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

xxmoxiexx said:


> ok, i was hoping for better weather, it is low of 24, high 40, and raining. I forget, are they in a heated cabin or not?
> Its supposed to snow tomorrow, we'll see what the crappy PO says!!!



They say the cabin where animals go is supposed to be heated. At least that's what they told me here.

Reti


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

Ok, seems I got a bad weather report this morning, it's supposed to stay into 40's


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Reti said:


> They say the cabin where animals go is supposed to be heated. At least that's what they told me here.
> Reti


I guess it depends on the airline they use, the post office in Orlando told me they don't have air conditioning in the cabins, so that is why Rosco and other birds went on the night flight from here to Nebraska, that was when the weather was warmer. They do alot of shipping of birds, so they pretty much know the drill.

Perhaps your area doesn't have much demand for shipping birds. Most post offices have nothing to do with shipping and don't have a clue. You have to find the post office that is in charge of flying birds out, they have all the information and schedule the flights.


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

This is the main, HUGE, PO! They are supposed to know!


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

xxmoxiexx said:


> This is the main, HUGE, PO! They are supposed to know!


You would think so, but maybe they have never had any experience in shipping, I would definitely complain.


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

OMG! I HATE this post office! I finally talked to the retail manager, and she was like, "ok, i gotta call the airlines, dont do anything yet with the birds, i know nothing of shiiping birds...etc etc" Being a real B! If you know what i mean, so another number i have from back in december, the guy is coming in after 2:30, and i seem to remember the guy i spoke with back then, that actually DID know something of shipping, saying that they go on a night flight. I am just bringing them down there either way, it is just RIDICULOUS! I'm just venting i guess!!
Must be Boston doesnt do lots of animal shipping, we'll see. I really hate this PO! Back in december, i FINALLY found a guy that knew something, and now they claim there was no such guy at that number. We'll see if the guy at 2:30 knows anything better....


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## EgypSwiftLady (Jan 14, 2008)

xxmoxiexx said:


> OMG! I HATE this post office! I finally talked to the retail manager, and she was like, "ok, i gotta call the airlines, dont do anything yet with the birds, i know nothing of shiiping birds...etc etc" Being a real B! If you know what i mean, so another number i have from back in december, the guy is coming in after 2:30, and i seem to remember the guy i spoke with back then, that actually DID know something of shipping, saying that they go on a night flight. I am just bringing them down there either way, it is just RIDICULOUS! I'm just venting i guess!!
> Must be Boston doesnt do lots of animal shipping, we'll see. I really hate this PO! Back in december, i FINALLY found a guy that knew something, and now they claim there was no such guy at that number. We'll see if the guy at 2:30 knows anything better....



Don't suppose theres another PO you could ship out of? Maybe a more rural area?
Sorry they are making it so hard for you.


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

Ok, i think i finally talked to someone in the know, i'm taking them this afternoon, they will sit in the outgoing section waiting for a flight, a direct flight, to their new homes!! I am SOOO excited someone KNEW SOMETHING! Thats what made me the MOST nervous, them not knowing anything, they scared the lif right outta me, here i am thinking they'll be sitting in a PO somewhere dying! The people just say, "well, i kind of dont really know, but sure, bring 'em down IF you want!" OR if you DARE!!
I have class tonight, but will post late how thr trip went, and you guys better, like, CALL me right when you get them! I have so little faith in this PO! Even though this guy did know SOME things others didnt, he still wasnt sure of some things. Oh, it ISNT a heated cabin they go into! And you believe, there are those baby chicks that go on those flights! UNHEATED!!


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

They will be just fine..............you'll see.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

xxmoxiexx said:


> Ok, i think i finally talked to someone in the know, i'm taking them this afternoon, they will sit in the outgoing section waiting for a flight, a direct flight, to their new homes!! I am SOOO excited someone KNEW SOMETHING! Thats what made me the MOST nervous, them not knowing anything, they scared the lif right outta me, here i am thinking they'll be sitting in a PO somewhere dying! The people just say, "well, i kind of dont really know, but sure, bring 'em down IF you want!" OR if you DARE!!
> I have class tonight, but will post late how thr trip went, and you guys better, like, CALL me right when you get them! I have so little faith in this PO! Even though this guy did know SOME things others didnt, he still wasnt sure of some things. Oh, it ISNT a heated cabin they go into! And you believe, there are those baby chicks that go on those flights! UNHEATED!!


Those in the know are NEVER sure until they actually have the go ahead and approval to ship on a carrier, once they call you and you get the birds there just in time for the plane to leave the birds will be fine.


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## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

Hi Moxie,
Just wanted to say I'll be nervous along with you until we hear that they have arrived. I had my Isabella shipped and it was very tense for me, even though everything went just fine! 

One thing the shipper did was to tape a small plastic container to the bottom of the box with a damp sponge in it. Like one of those sauce containers that you get at a chinese place...with part of the lid cut out so the birds could lick the sponge if they got really really thirsty. But the sponge can't fall out and get the rest of the box damp.

I had to call around the Lowell PO a few times to finally get someone helpful. He called me when the box came in and let me come to the shipping center to pick her up so she didn't go out on the delivery truck and sit there all day or get left on my doorstep. (he offered to personally bring her to my house, but i felt better picking her up myself) 

Maybe the person on the other end can call their PO too, and do something similar to ensure the shortest time in the box for the birds? (The PO probably thought I was nuts because I kept calling them but I don't care...)


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

Sent them! On my cell phone, on my way to class, Just wanted to post quick, they GUARANTEE the arrival of both boxes by 12 noon tomorrow!


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Standard guarantee? Repair, replace or your money back?

Pidgey


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

xxmoxiexx said:


> Sent them! On my cell phone, on my way to class, Just wanted to post quick, they GUARANTEE the arrival of both boxes by 12 noon tomorrow!


Boy, you're PO really DOESN'T know what they are doing do they??? LOL
There isn't supposed to be any more guaranteed next day delivery. Doesn't mean that the birds won't make it by the next day, because sometimes they do, but from what I understand, it's supposed to be a 2 day guarantee. Think part of it was lots of people were getting a refund when the birds didn't arrive on time. Anyway, IF they DON'T make it by tomorrow, DON"T FREAK OUT. Many destinations are two days of travel time. Not a big deal. 
I sent a bird to CA in less than 24 hours. I also sent some to Maine and it took 2 days. Figure that one out. Remember, I'm in VA.


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## Snowbird Sue (Dec 31, 2007)

Hi Renee, As long as you are figuring shipping, I got my birds form Ohio, and it took 3 days. Then, "A" post office 60 miles away, called me to tell me my birds were there!  yeah, the next day they were at my P.O..... I did go and pick them up. but still, 3 days?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Hard to tell what happened really. When was that? About 2 years ago, there were some REAL problems with shipping. Some PO's would, some wouldn't, some didn't know if they could,.......it was a real mess. Things are much better now in most places, except for Boston, MA it appears.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

For my part, I've been waiting for this to happen for a loooooonnnnggg time. One of the birds that is coming is Ol' One Beak, the bird who lost her entire upper beak and ceres with that bad case of canker last year. Moxie has been keeping that bird alive by feeding it formula for all of this time, as well as keeping his tongue from drying out by keeping it covered. 

She's sending the bird to me in the hopes that between my vet and I that we can come up with some kind of prosthetic beak arrangement that will allow Ol' One Beak to feed herself and preen normally. Moxie also had another bird whose lower beak scissored badly because of canker that became Ol' One Beak's mate. That one's been getting fed or supplemented the hard way too for all this time, I think.

Moxie's certainly had to do a lot of things for her rescues that border on the heroic but aren't widely known. 

Pidgey


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Pidgey said:


> For my part, I've been waiting for this to happen for a loooooonnnnggg time. One of the birds that is coming is Ol' One Beak, the bird who lost her entire upper beak and ceres with that bad case of canker last year. Moxie has been keeping that bird alive by feeding it formula for all of this time, as well as keeping his tongue from drying out by keeping it covered.
> 
> She's sending the bird to me in the hopes that between my vet and I that we can come up with some kind of prosthetic beak arrangement that will allow Ol' One Beak to feed herself and preen normally. Moxie also had another bird whose lower beak scissored badly because of canker that became Ol' One Beak's mate. That one's been getting fed or supplemented the hard way too for all this time, I think.
> 
> ...



Well, cudos to her for all she does. Good to know that the birds are going to a good person who will care for them. That way Moxie can start on her NEXT adventure.  There's bound to be one.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Moxxie is a true angel to all those poor pigeons in her area. She has gone above and beyond to save them.
Thanks for taking the beaky couple in, Pidgey. Let us know what arrangements you'll make with the prosthesis.
My Beaky (that's her name) with no lower beak is doing great. Poor thing even tries to bite me. She is eating fine and I don't know how she preens but her feathers look great too. I guess her mate helps her. The only trouble she has is picking up nesting material.

Reti


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

Well, here's the update, the PO guaranteed it by noon or they said they would refund my money. It cost $64.00 to ship two boxes, one with 2 birds, one with 3. Oh, actually, Pidgey and Terry, i sent you both an EXTRA bird i found! Didnt think you'd mind!  
LOL! Just jokin'!  
Well, Pidgey is the TRUE hero here, i called him when i found ol' one beak, which i begged him to rename! I wanted to PTS RIGHT away, he has some of the pics still, my computer lost them, i'm sure he'll start a thread with them as soon as he gets them to bring us up to speed. It is amazing how bad he looked. 
The beak was disgusting, whether it was canker or wet pox, or both, it was HORRIBLE! He talked me out of PTS, ONLY on the basis that i tube feed him a few days so that when i did PTS he was less out of it. I did, but started meds, and the beak fell off. We decided to see how things progressed, the bird didnt notice the beak gone, think was glad to be rid of that painful thing, He started to be a regular pigeon once out of starvation mode and the canker and beak were gone. We decided to ship it to him once better. The shipping, Well, it has been one thing after another, i got this bird in the summer, by the time it was better, it was still too hot to ship, then i didnt have boxes to ship, by the time i got those, i didnt have the outrageous money the PO was quoting me to ship. Pidgey offered to pay, but it was really the principal of them overcharging me.
Then it was in November, holiday shipping season, i waited, until it got to January and got warmer, well, hasnt been warmer until lately. Finally, at least i HOPE, it'll all come together.
I will miss ALL the birds i sent today. The other going to Pidgey is a scissor beak, got a spot of canker or pox next to bottom beak, once it fell off, beak scissored. Probably need some therapy and vet visits i assume. Both these birds i assume are male, but scissor beak and ol one beak act like lovers, it is ADORABLE! Scissor beak will fight to the death to protect Ol' One beak, he will peck and push and bite to get me away from him. I assume it is a him because he never laid an egg, does that matter? I assume it does. Anyways, Ol' One Beak is friendlier, but is sick of getting tubes shoved down his throat, Scissor beak USED to be able to eat seed, but the more it Scissored, he couldnt eat seed anymore. They preen each other, as best they can, and are a very cute couple considering their beak problems! They are such a sweet couple, the one sticking up for the other, it is so sweet. I do wonder if they will move onto new mates at Pidgey's loft. Pidgey was so kind to take these birds, and i cannot think of a better place for them to go, really. 
Terry also had to wait for her birds, same reasons, Terry is getting 3 birds, one is an abandoned racing homer, he is depressed because he had found a lover in a feral i released a week ago. He is VERY mad at me, and for days walked around looking for her. The other 2 are lovers, it used to be all 3 were lovers! But Homer moved onto new blood! The other 2 are one feral who had canker, i THINK, and when i went to release her with others, she would WALK back into box, REFUSED to be let go! I think she knew her 2 boyfriends were at my house, and refused to go. Her present boyfriend is the one-legged feral. I found him with one leg withered and dragging from him. He could barely eat, as he couldnt walk well and the other birds got seed first. He is such a sweet sweet bird. He had that adolescent "frog like" coo when i got him, and i just loved it so much, i did laugh at it quite a bit though, it was CUTE!! I will miss ALL of them, and do expect updates, WITH pictures!
Thanks for all the help and support you guys gave me with everything, you're all soooo sweet! If it wasnt for you guys, i wouldnt even be here! I still know so little, but thats why i'm here, so i can ask what to do when i get a bird. I am glad you all enlightened me to the world of pigeons, i never would have known so much about these wonderful birds if it wasnt for you all!  
And SO SO SOOO sorry Pidgey and Terry it took so long to get my end together on the shipping end! At least i'm not a shipping virgin anymore!


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

I'm glad the birds are on the way, Moxie! Please post the airbill #'s so we can all be tracking where they are. I sure hope they arrive tomorrow for both Pidgey and I. My post office will call me right away when they arrive to come pick them up.

Our main post office here isn't any better than yours .. I called and called and called today trying to get the go ahead to ship some doves and a pigeon to Florida tomorrow. I couldn't even get anyone in the department on the phone nor did they reply to my three voice mails. I stopped into my local post office this evening to see what they had to say .. basically just bring the birds in around 11 AM so they get on the 1 PM Express Mail truck and all would be well. I suspect the local folks aren't in the know either, so I will call again in the morning and see how it goes.

Terry


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

ok, here's UPS numbers, the phone to call, or go to usps.com, here's 800 number
1 800 222-1811

tracking number for Terry is EH 105210131 US
tracking number for Pidgey is EH 105210145 US

both just say they left Boston yesterday, thats all it says??
Ok, both the number and the web site have been saying they just left, or been processed, at the Boston distribution center at 5:54 PM.
I'm so scared for them..... being in that box in a plane,


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

xxmoxiexx said:


> ok, here's UPS numbers, the phone to call, or go to usps.com, here's 800 number
> 1 800 222-1811
> 
> tracking number for Terry is EH 105210131 US
> ...


Many times I've gotten birds before the web site says they've been delivered. They only update a couple times a day or maybe just once. It's usually behind a bit, but will catch up eventually.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

The USPS website only updates in the evenings--it's not like tracking something on Fedex or UPS, where they let you know where it is right this second through GPS tracking (that's a joke).

Pidgey


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Everything will all end well. I am sorry that problems were encountered Moxie.

I received three pigeons from long distance shippers. 

Uchiwa from a private carrier and was pampered all the way first class!

Roscoe and Beaksley came to me from the post office. I remember when I picked up Beaksley he was waiting for me in a warm office. It was late winter when he arrived to me. 

In all cases I was given a phone call when all my pigeons arrived. I was a bundle of nerves, especaiily with the post office shipments, but I must tell you that I was quite pleasantly surprised by the remarkable service that I received from the post office employess.


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## eric98223 (Aug 4, 2007)

ok, i just hope all the birds got where they were going ok... i wonder if you could convince ups to just release homers lol ship them someplace in an 8 bird box and viola, training flight!! lol kidding (kinda)


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

well, just let me know what time they arrive! I get my money back, well, THATS what the lady said anyways. She said it was guaranteed by 12, so i said what if they dont get there by 12, and she's like, "well, we dont even want to think of that, because we wouldnt want them to get there past 12, now would we?" And i said, "yes, of course, but if you guarantee something, i want to know what that exactly MEANS?" She was really snotty... So she said, "well, you get your money back, but i would think you wouldnt be THINKING of the money if your birds didnt make it!" 
Of course i care more about the birds then the money lady! Thats what i felt like saying, but i just figuresd if i pushed the whole guarabtee thing maybe they'll be extra careful to get them there on time? Well, you guys say they dont guarantee it anyways, but thats what the lady says!
i'm so worried about them..... Just in the car on the way down they were freaking out, everytime we had to stop or go suddenly, they would fall over, you could hear them falling.
I made a pretty good nest with One-Legged, and the two going to pidgey are in there together, no barrier between them. The box didnt come with one, is that normal for a two bird box? I would think you'd have to make a barrier in case the birds didnt like each other....


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Actually, sometimes the two bird boxes do come with a divider. I've used them before and my husband has made one for boxes that didn't have one. It's needed of you ship two cocks together or a mated pair that haven't been together for a while or a cock and hen. It's not necessary for two hens or two young birds.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Theeeeeeyyy're HEEE-rrrrreee!

They made it just fine.

Pidgey


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

I had checked UPS website, and it said they made an attempted delivery, and left a notice, so i called Pidgey, "Pidgey, the birds, they tried to deliver them, go get them!" And he's like, "Uh, i have them Raina! I'm in my car now." He went home, opened the box with me on speakerphone, and said they are ALIVE and well! He's gonna post a thread soon i assume about the plans for these birds. 
Oh, they attempted delivery at 11:57 am, 3 minutes before guaranbtee, pretty funny, huh? I wonder where Terry's birds are. It is 12:12 there now, so should arrive soon i hope. It's the one-legged bird i'm concerned about. I made him a pretty good nest though....re-inforced with TONS of duct-tape....


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

1 box down, 1 box to go................feel better now Raina??


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

Great to hear that Pidgey's birds have arrived. It's funny, I never thought of Pidgey as having a "real" name other than Pidgey! Lol. And Raina is a beautiful name. I'm sure the rest will arrive safely at their new home soon and then you can finally relax a bit today!


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

i just got off the phone with Terry, the one-legged bird didnt make it, he died, has been dead a little bit. When i dropped him off at the PO he was alive. I made him a really good nest, i dont know what happened. I'm so upset right now, he was one of the coolest pigeons ever.


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## Grim (Jul 28, 2007)

That blows. Sorry to hear that. I wonder why he didn't make it.

Don't let it bother you to much even i would have said it would be fine. Any healthy bird should make shipping no problem.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

xxmoxiexx said:


> i just got off the phone with Terry, the one-legged bird didnt make it, he died, has been dead a little bit. When i dropped him off at the PO he was alive. I made him a really good nest, i dont know what happened. I'm so upset right now, he was one of the coolest pigeons ever.


I'm so sorry. I'm heartbroken right along with you.


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

he was healthy though, really, except for the leg, i'm starting to wonder if the box got tipped over and he couldnt right himself? Maybe he then aspirated on water?
I'm really, really heartbroken.....


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## Grim (Jul 28, 2007)

Was there water in the box?


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

no, no water in box, but i tubed a bit of water, actually, thin, very thin, kaytee, in each of them a few hours before shipping.... But he was fine at the PO, i was in line for 45 minutes, checking on them the whole time......
I just think they got him upside down, what else could it be, he was healthy, as far as i could tell? I mean, he was good weight, ate, drank, walked around ok on the one leg, i had a nest so all he had to do was sit, and he figured out pretty quick how to just sit....


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

I had just left the post office from shipping my birds when they called to tell me that Moxie's birds were there. I turned right around and went back and got the birds. I opened the box as soon as I got home (about a 5 minute trip) and saw that the one legged pigeon had died and had been dead for some time. He appeared to have died peacefully, was in good flesh and feather, and had obviously been very, very well cared for by Moxie. The box was not wet, there was no sign of the box having been tipped over, or anything that could cause the death of the bird. I am so very terribly sorry for the loss of this bird and am feeling really awful about how horribly sad Moxie is right now.

The other two are doing fine, and the little speckled female had produced an egg during the journey.

I'll keep everyone posted about the two new family members.

Terry


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## rock (Jun 29, 2007)

Maybe the nest ended up on top of him.


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## Grim (Jul 28, 2007)

Well I know you don't know about everyone but here the workers seem to care about the birds. You never know though what really may happen from one state to the next. I sure hope they weren't upside down. 

All I can really say is don't beat yourself up because it sounds like you did more than most people do. I have got over 20 pigeons mailed last summer and all went well. Only one of three shipments came the next day.

There really is no telling what could have happened. I am sorry for the loss of that little guy.


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

rock, that nest was secured in place, i tested it to make sure, there was almost a whole roll of duct tape securing it in place. I wouldnt leave it loose like that...
Terry, are you sure she produced an egg? I put fake eggs in with her... she gets MAD, very mad, when i take her away from eggs, i thought she would have a heart attack if she didnt have the falsies....


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Oh, Moxie........I"m so sorry!! I do agree with Grim though......there's no reason that shipping this bird should have caused his death. There had to be something else, even if it was just as simple as the stress was too much. There's no way that you or anyone could have known that. Again, I'm sorry..I just don't know what else to say.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I am also heart broken and I can't even imagine how moxxie must feel right now. Maybe the stress killed him. 
I am so sorry.

Reti


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I'm so sorry, Moxie, it really just knocks the wind out of a person. I'll give the two I got a special hug tonight for you.

Pidgey


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## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

Ohhhh, moxxie i am so sorry about the one who did not make it. Hugs, hugs, hugs. I don't know what else 2 say. Except I know you did your best to help him and he appreciated it very much.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

I took pictures when I opened the box today but wasn't going to post them since the one had not survived the journey. I've decided to go ahead and post the pictures simply so every one can see that there were no signs of the box being tipped/upside down, no damage to the box, and that the one legged pigeon appeared to have passed quietly and peacefully. Do keep in mind that the one bird is dead in these pictures, but I doubt you could tell that if you didn't already know. 

Moxie, I hope these photos don't upset you, but I think they will clear up any lingering issues for the members including the fact that the "nest" you made was still soundly attached.

http://www.rims.net/2008Apr01

Terry


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

You know, seeing that bird reminded of something that happened about two years ago. I'll try to make it short and sweet.  
Had some birds sent to my loft for a small futurity race we tried to have in our club.
Had this bird for months.........it flew with the rest, looked perfectly fine. Took the birds on a 40 mile training toss. This bird flew home with all the others. Next morning, I found him dead in the aviary. Absolutely nothing that I saw made me think there was anything wrong. Of course, to this day, I have no idea what happened. No other birds got sick and no other birds died. It just "happened" for no apparent reason. 
It possibly could be sheer coincidence that this bird died while being shipped in a box. It's possible that if Moxie hadn't shipped the bird, she would have found it dead anyway. We'll never know of course, but, "stuff" happens and we can't always foresee it. Just because the bird died doesn't mean than there was something wrong that Moxie DIDN'T see or know. I know it's still sad that this bird is gone now, but he looks perfectly peaceful. You can see that he was comfortable and I think it's just one of those things that will never be explained.


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## eric98223 (Aug 4, 2007)

moxie,
i agree with the others i think you did nothing wrong. i have had it happen a couple times as well. birds are perfectly healthy on minute and gone the next morning. had a baby do it a week ago. banded her in the am and she was fine so was her nest mate. came home that night and she was dead in the nest. lost a german a couple months ago the same way.

im sorry for the loss but it sounds like the bird had a very happy life with you. i suspect stress as well..

E..


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## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

Moxie, 

I'm so sorry to read about your little one legged bird. You didn't do anything wrong. As Renee pointed out, he could have died had you kept him home. You just don't know. There was no indication that he wouldn't survive the trip any worse than the other two who made it just fine. May he RIP, it was just his time. Your intervention extended his life and you saw that he had many happy pigeon days.

Margaret


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

I am so sorry!!!! Please try not to feel responsible. I have never heard before of a bird dying from stress from shipping, so there's NO way you could have foretold that. Perhaps he had a weak heart, there's so much you just couldn't know that might have happened. When I had birds shipped, they took three days to get to me and were all fine even though they had more of a delay than they should have. At least his time with you was wonderful. I'm so sorry he didn't make it. It wasn't your fault.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I'm so sorry to hear about the bird, please accept my condolensces and a BIG hug too.


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## little bird (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm sorry Raina. It's very hard to face the unknown and accept the un-expected but you have proven you are capable of both. Time will heal the hurt, be kind to yourself, you are not at fault.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

*More Terrible News*

Moxie's little hen was dead this morning when I went to do the morning chores. So far the racing pigeon seems to be OK. Both birds appeared to be fine when they arrived and both did drink and eat, and both had settled in nicely for the night when I checked on them around 10:30 PM last night. They were in a very large airline type carrier inside my finished garage and had plenty of food and water available. My garage hasn't seen a vehicle in it for a couple of decades .. the garage is my home office and bird hospital/nursery. Since the one bird was DOA and a second one has died, I have to believe that the birds somehow were exposed to fumes or some other toxic substance during their journey. 

I am just gutted over these losses even though I know there is nothing that Moxie or I could have done to prevent them. Moxie, my heart is absolutely breaking for you. 

Terry


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

TAWhatley said:


> Moxie's little hen was dead this morning when I went to do the morning chores. So far the racing pigeon seems to be OK. Both birds appeared to be fine when they arrived and both did drink and eat, and both had settled in nicely for the night when I checked on them around 10:30 PM last night. They were in a very large airline type carrier inside my finished garage and had plenty of food and water available. My garage hasn't seen a vehicle in it for a couple of decades .. the garage is my home office and bird hospital/nursery. Since the one bird was DOA and a second one has died, I have to believe that the birds somehow were exposed to fumes or some other toxic substance during their journey.
> 
> I am just gutted over these losses even though I know there is nothing that Moxie or I could have done to prevent them. Moxie, my heart is absolutely breaking for you.
> 
> Terry


Well, dad blasted!!! What the heck????? Could it even remotely be possible that they didn't survive because they are ferals? That sounds kind of dumb I guess, but whatever happened to these two (if something happened) had to have happened to the racer too. Just kind of weird I think. This will be one of those "life's great mysteries".......I'm soooooo sorry they didn't make it. Have you guys shipped a lot of ferals? Puzzling..........


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

I have had literally dozens of ferals successfully shipped to me from as far away as New York and Florida .. no problems with them.

Terry


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

TAWhatley said:


> Moxie's little hen was dead this morning when I went to do the morning chores. So far the racing pigeon seems to be OK. Both birds appeared to be fine when they arrived and both did drink and eat, and both had settled in nicely for the night when I checked on them around 10:30 PM last night. They were in a very large airline type carrier inside my finished garage and had plenty of food and water available. My garage hasn't seen a vehicle in it for a couple of decades .. the garage is my home office and bird hospital/nursery. Since the one bird was DOA and a second one has died, I have to believe that the birds somehow were exposed to fumes or some other toxic substance during their journey.
> 
> I am just gutted over these losses even though I know there is nothing that Moxie or I could have done to prevent them. Moxie, my heart is absolutely breaking for you.
> 
> Terry


Mine too....


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, I will say that I have been a little worried for both of mine because they've been breathing funny. That is, I can hear them breathing and, of course, they both breathe through their mouths under the circumstances. 

And, they shake a little bit. I've already started some labs like I did a throat swab and I've been trying to get enough poop out of them to run fecals. I noticed this morning that they've gone through quite a bit of water and what little poop they've produced thus far makes a person think of PMV.

There are no neurological signs yet but I've been more than a little nervous about that. I have been wondering if this had to do with that other bird going down so fast (the one that she had that died despite all efforts lately).

The one-legged one appears to have died after some state of depression. I say that because he appears to have settled down and then just gone to sleep. If Terry hadn't said that he was dead in those pictures, I'd never have been able to tell it.

Pidgey


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Pidgey said:


> Well, I will say that I have been a little worried for both of mine because they've been breathing funny. That is, I can hear them breathing and, of course, they both breathe through their mouths under the circumstances.
> 
> And, they shake a little bit. I've already started some labs like I did a throat swab and I've been trying to get enough poop out of them to run fecals. I noticed this morning that they've gone through quite a bit of water and what little poop they've produced thus far makes a person think of PMV.
> 
> ...


That may be possible and may be that the racer was vaccinated regularly and that's why he/she is doing fine.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Raina and Terry, I am just sick reading this. I simply don't know the right words to say to express my sorrow, particularly for Raina. My dear, you work tirelessly caring for your little ones and I want you to look back with pride that you pulled these pigeons through when they were so ill. None of us will ever know what happened en route to Terry but you have no reason to fault anything you did. I am just so, so sorry.


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

OMG! I just cannot believe this, i was crying all day yesterday, and just when i thought i felt a bit better, get off work to read this!
I am horribly, extremely devastated, i feel worse then when my cat died because now other people, Pidgey and Terry, are involved!
Ok, when i had the PMV bird in the same room, i got really scared anf moved him to another room once it was determined he had PMV, let me go check how long he's been out of that room, hold on, i wanted to make sure NONE of the birds had PMV, even the ones i was releasing. Pidgey remembers, i discussed it with him, hold on one sec....


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

ok, i moved him out of that room at the end of february. I had him caged, and everyone else was caged, but once we suspected PMV i moved him into other room. I had some ferals i was supposed to release that weekend, well, i was scared that PMV could of gotten airborne somehow, so i JUST released them on easter, NONE showed signs of PMV. Hmm, i can find out if the racer was ever vaccinated, long story, but i found out who the owner that abandoned him is.
Anyways, originally the PMV, was in a cage next to another cage, and i thought the other one had gotten PMV too, he seemed to have slight symptoms for one night, but alas, didnt, i think i was being paranoid.
Anyways, when PMV was in the same room, i never touched him and touched the others, i always am careful about that. 
OMG! I am so devastated, i am not doing this again, i feel like it's my fault, like i killed them somehow, i just dont think i can ever do this again, ever, i'm sorry, but this is just too much.... i cant handle this, i feel like one of those plastic surgery doctors that got their lisence through the mail, and is practicing surgery on people, killing them in the process. Or seeing severe side effects and not noticing it because they are UNQUALIFIED! 
I'm sorry Pidgey and Terry, i thought i was sending healthy birds, except for Pidgey's being a bit underweight, as i just started them on zupreem pellets 2 weeks earlier, the Kaytee alone wasnt doing it for them.... They all seemed healthy besides that. Pidgey, they would both, i dont know if i would call it shake, but their wings would flutter when i got in the cage to tube feed or anything else. But when i was further away they wouldnt do this. I think the hen died of a broken heart. I know Terry that you are just saying they might have gotten exposed to fumes to make me feel better, i appreciate it, but nothing is gonna make me feel better right now. I mean, if it was fumes, why is the racer ok, that doesnt make sense?
Pidgey, when you say shaking and breathing loudly, what do you mean? i am just WAY TOO inexerienced to be doing this, i hate to say it, but i feel like i have done more damage then good for any of these birds, i know they all would of died out there, but, i dont know, i just feel like i SHOULD of spotted something before shipping! Like, SOMETHING! I like hate myself right now, i feel so crappy... I dont know why i ever thought i could help...


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, calm down. Every rehabber gets hit from time to time with things like this. Remember when Phil's birds started dying back a few months ago? Terry's had an episode or two, too. It's the nature of the business. When you bring in sick birds, that's exactly what you have: a sick bird. Eventually, you get one that's got something bad enough to cause a real problem. And your area has obviously had some of the worst of the worst problems that we've seen.

As to my two, if you can remember being able to hear them both breathe little hisses from time to time then we're probably okay. Let's face the facts, they've both got a little wrong with their beaks, you know.

Pidgey


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Moxie, don't give up. Please remember that you pulled these pigeons through and they were healthy when you shipped them. You had them for several months and they lived - all because of you. The odds simply would not add up that two would die within a day of each other after you having them as long as you did. You did absolutely nothing to cause this. It is simply that something happened en route. I know you're hurting and all of us are too because of you, because we care for you.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I have shipped dozens of ferals to California, Arizona, Virginia, never had an incident. So, it's not that they were ferals, less resistant, whatever.
Moxxie, don't even think for one second that you did anything wrong. The fumes/toxins theory would make sense and that the racer didn't die might be just, maybe he is more resistant, better immune system, larger size etc. Who knows where they were kept until put on the plane, maybe next to some chemicals? The PO workers wouldn't know. It is very unlikely all pijies contracted PMV and none showed symptoms.
I am so sorry you guys have to go through this.

Reti


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Raina, I know that you feel horrible right now.........I wish, heck, I'm sure we ALL wish we could be there to give a big hug. Don't you EVER stop doing what you do. There's SO MANY that would have had a horrible end to their life had it not been for you. These two birds that just died would have had a horrible end to THEIR life had you not taken them in. As it is, they passed away warm and safe. I know that this is probably no consolation to you at this moment, but in a few days...............there was something going on that you nor anyone else could have seen. PLEASE don't beat yourself up. You do to much good.


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

Terry, please bury the hen and one legged with peanuts, they loved peanuts, too much, and i know they would of liked that...
Thanks...


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

My two look just fine right now. I put them under a heat lamp when they got in and they seem to like it. I can't hear any funny sounds out of them now.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Raina, my beloved daughter in spirit, listen now as you've never listened before: Life is risk, and nothing in life is as risky as loving. Many of us here at Pigeon-Talk love you a lot because you haven't got a selfish bone in your body. You regularly burst through the Gates of Hell to rescue a dying pigeon with no thought for what it may ultimately cost you. More than any of the rest of us, you are innocent. Many of us have long since lost this and wish more than anything else that we could get it back. So many choices that we have made that we can never go back and unmake.

These birds that you have taken in had no champion other than you. Of all the other folks who walked by without a glance, only you loved them enough to give them a chance. And that's what it was: a chance. Between you, all of us and the considerable resources that we as a community are and have, we are not omnipotent and we cannot save them all. We cannot and do not always know even what's wrong with them. All we can do is try and do our best. It will never be enough, but it's all that we have. And you, my child, have certainly given to the utmost of your abilities and your love to these birds.

The greatest risk in loving is how it exposes us to pain, as you are feeling now. Pain often causes us to love less because we don't want to feel it again and that ironically does us the most harm of all. Every little bit that we learn to love less, we die a little bit more inside. Mourn, Raina, but remain who you are--there is no greater risk to you than that which comes with hardening your heart.

Pidgey


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Oh Raina--I am so so so so sorry. Please please don't feel so badly, it can't have been your fault. You are very skilled and experienced compared to many other rescuers. And you do so so much for all your birds, it boggles the mind sometimes even trying to imagine how you do it all. And all that you do, you do very well, conscientiously and compassionately. Every pigeon you have ever rescued was lucky to have crossed your path, regardless of the outcome. I know this really hurts, after all the time you spent calling, researching, worrying about shipping, not to mention all your love and care for these birds. But know it was not your fault.
Pidgey, that was a beautiful post. Every word is so true, so please, Raina, take it to heart.
Sending lots of love,
Sabina


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Ohhhh Moxie .. please, please don't quit and please, please don't punish yourself so badly. I'd be just about willing to bet my life that there was nothing healthwise wrong with the birds you sent to me. Some terrible and accidental thing along their journey caused them to die and not anything you did or didn't do.

The racer is still fine this evening, and while I can't explain why two died and the third one didn't, I'm still sure the deaths were due to some external cause. 

The little hen passed peacefully and quietly .. just like one leg. She looked like she was sleeping, just like he did.

For what little comfort it may be, whatever killed them does not seem to have been a painful or difficult death.

I will be burying the two of them side by side at sunrise tomorrow .. complete with peanuts .. under our Joseph's Coat rosebush which is incredibly beautiful. They will then be forever home here.

Terry


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## eric98223 (Aug 4, 2007)

moxie,
my thoughts are with you today. know that we all think it is nothing you did wrong. these things happen sometimes. my thoughts are with you.. 
E..


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

I just wanted to post and let everyone know i feel a bit better now. I really kind of freaked, i thought all the birds were gonna die, and felt like it was all my fault. I've had time to digest everything, so i'm not as devastated as i was. I still feel horrible, i loved those birds sooo much. I think, now that i know the racer is ok, that whatever one-legge had, the other did too. I mean, they do develop illnesses/disease even as pets, they dont have to be wild and feral to get sick, and i guess i kind of overlooked that a bit. I mean, when a pet dies, we always wonder, "what could i have done differently?" And thats what i thought, but even more so because others were involved. Terry, how horrible, i am so sorry you had to go through this also. 
I think, because these 2 were a couple, and would share food/water, kiss each other, preen each other, that one had something and gave it to the other. Or something happened during shipping, we'll never really know.
I will still help the ferals, but i am going to try and focus on the two i have right now. I am still feeding my flock, and caught 2 string injuries i have been trying to catch forever, which was nice. I caught a goose with a broken leg Thursday, and took it to new England wildlife center. There were 2 pigeons in cages in the accepting area. One an all white lost homing pigeon with no band, a squeaker, the other a gray feral. I told the woman they were very pretty pigeons, and she remarked, "i GUESS, i mean, they're JUST pigeons!" And i just thought, great, this place for WILDLIFE, and the vet tech here is disregarding them like that. It made me really sad. Also, i did think of all the pigeons alive because of the help i have given. I appreciate all your replies, they are so beautiful, i really appreciate it! 
Like Pidgey said, sometimes we win, sometimes we lose, and i cant beat myself up for the times we lose. Sometimes it has nothing to do with what we have done to treat, sometimes it does, but even trained veterinarians make that mistake, i mean, all the stories on here about vets killing peoples pet pigeons by faulty treatment, it can happen to anyone. It's no ones fault really, as long as your heart is in the right place, i think with you trying, you cannot fail, you tried. Even though i said i would never do this again, i don't mean that, i was just sooo upset, but i never, ever, EVER want to be one of those people that dont help an injured animal, or one of those people that dont or wont help, or havent been in the position of having to make a life or death decision for an animal, yet criticise or blame someone for making their own decision about whether to treat or how to treat. 
Thanks everyone for being so supportive through this. I always had pigeons for such a short time when they died, it was sad, but i never had a pigeon that long to have it die before, so it was devastating. I hope you all understand that, which I'm sure you do!


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

I'm glad you are feeling a bit better, Moxie. We've all been concerned about you and thinking about you. The racer is still doing just fine.

I'm very happy that you are going to continue to help the needy creatures that cross your path. Though the heartbreaks are hard to take, the successes more than make up for them .. it's just difficult to remember that at times.

Terry


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

Terry,
Thanks so much taking care of my pijjies when they died and burying them so sweetly. I appreciate it more then you will ever know, and even though i couldnt be there, i was there in spirit. Thanks for being the strong willed yet sweet woman that you are, i know so many people admire and look up to you here, and i'm sure wherever you go. 
May they Rest In Peace, fly free, and have all the peanuts they want in their next life...


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Nice to see you back and I am so glad you are feeling better. I have said it so many times when a little one dies, that I can't do this anymore, but that thought (or feeling) lasts only for a few minutes, then think about the ones that made it and my happy and beautiful birds that enjoy their little lives and I guess it's all worth it. At least we give them a chance.
You've done a great job with all your rescues. 

Reti


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Moxie, I'm so happy you are feeling better about this. I still don't think that those pigeons were sick with anything. You had them so long and like I mentioned earlier, the odds of two dying so closely. to me, are slim.

I have no words of wisdom to share particularly but over the 14 years we have tried to help pigeons we have lost some. This past week was particularly bad on us. We lost a baby dove, a crow and a pigeon. Each death hurts like the devil. The pigeon we tried to save was especially bad. We knew from the minute we saw him that his chances were slim. You learn to see the signs but you work like the devil to try anything to help. Sometimes they give you a glimmer of hope. On Friday, we put him on the floor to walk around, he pecked, preened a bit but quickly tired. Yesterday afternoon, he started slipping away and we stayed with him. The point is, we move on and although you don't forget those that have died, you rejoice for every little soul you save. 

You know we care for you.


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