# OUCH for Investors - "Pigeon King" Update



## WhiteWingsCa (Mar 1, 2002)

This guy was discussed a few times in this forum. It's sad that someone became so money hungry that he was able to convince people to invest in his scheme (scam?) ...

http://www.farmanddairy.com/news/updated-pigeon-king-goes-bankrupt/

Not only are people losing a ton of money, it appears that many of the birds will be losing their lives...

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2008/06/19/pigeons-cull.html


I find it incredibly sad all around. I met Arlan 8 years ago, when we bought some white breeders from him -- before he'd started up as "king". Nice guy, nice birds. I wonder what happened..... No, I don't, unfortunately, greed often makes nice people not so nice....


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

WhiteWingsCa said:


> This guy was discussed a few times in this forum. It's sad that someone became so money hungry that he was able to convince people to invest in his scheme (scam?) ...
> 
> http://www.farmanddairy.com/news/updated-pigeon-king-goes-bankrupt/
> 
> ...


He posted here just a few days ago looking for help with his birds.
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f5/wh...-suggestions-27908.html?highlight=Pigeon+King

The true victims here are the poor *innocent* birds. 
Such a sad, sad, situation. 

Cindy


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

WhiteWingsCa said:


> This guy was discussed a few times in this forum. It's sad that someone became so money hungry that he was able to convince people to invest in his scheme (scam?) ...
> 
> http://www.farmanddairy.com/news/updated-pigeon-king-goes-bankrupt/
> 
> ...


Sometimes greedy people act nice so they can manipulate others. The same would apply to many character defects ...act nice to manipulate others.[ I have just moderated myself.]


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

This is heart breaking. Hundreds of thousands of beautiful, innocent pigeons will probably be slaughtered because of this man. Reading the comments in the second link illustrate how little people think of pigeons. Really sad.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

what a gigantic mess, I hope the farmers left holding the bag can figure someting out....I just don't see alot of people eating squab on a regular basis, not in this country anyway..a few restaurants maybe...this was doomed form the start.....poor birds.


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## LostPinesLoft (May 29, 2008)

There may be some confusion here, the fella who posted a few days ago about too many birds was a contractor not the PKIguy/pyramid guy.

VL


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

LostPinesLoft said:


> There may be some confusion here, the fella who posted a few days ago about too many birds was a contractor not the PKIguy/pyramid guy.
> 
> VL


Sorry.
I should have said a thread was started a few days ago regarding this situation, rather than specifically saying '*he*' posted.

Cindy


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## KIPPY (Dec 18, 2003)

Very sad, the pigeons will probably be destroyed in some way and I don't know how these people can live with themselves if that happens.


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## jeepsterwannabe (Jun 22, 2008)

So what was the pigeon king program?


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

This sucks.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

jeepsterwannabe said:


> So what was the pigeon king program?


It appears that the Pigeon King website is no longer available. It contained all the details.

Basically the Pigeon King got people to invest substantial amounts of money in breeding stock and guaranteed that he would buy all the offspring at a very attractive prices. I'll see if I can find some links other than the Pigeon King site that has the information.

Terry


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

jeepsterwannabe said:


> So what was the pigeon king program?


If you go to the links in the very first post of this thread, you'll get the gist of what was going on.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I feel no saddness what so ever for the investors....only the birds.


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2008)

i still dont get why they thought this all would work with homers and high flyers and not meat birds ... that right there tells you something is kind of fishy ... oi humans


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## jeepsterwannabe (Jun 22, 2008)

Charis said:


> I feel no saddness what so ever for the investors....only the birds.


that's pretty disgusting


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

I'm stunned and disgusted. This Arlan Galbraith guy's actions are reprehensible. Now thousands of innocent birds will die and not even for food, but for one man's greed and ruthlessness. Absolutely disgusting.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

It is horrible and disgusting, I only see the birds as the innocent victims here.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Everyone, 

I wasn't going to reply to or speak about this issue and haven't brought it up in my own forum because of the nature of the problem.

I know that this post won't be well accepted by many of you, and I haven't been keeping up to date tabs in the situation as it unfolds...so perhaps I'm wrong but...

This "pigeon king" man was definitely in the wrong with what he did and how he scammed the investors for money to get them involved with his schemes, but these birds that were bred all over were intended for the "pot"...isn't this right?

If this is correct, then they all would have eventually been slaughtered anyway and at some point. I don't know what will happen from this mess, or what lies in store for the birds, but if they do end up culling or "euthanizing" many of these pigeons, than perhaps this is better than if they were put out of their misery (in whatever means they do it) and before they ever reached the killing "fields".

It's a very sad situation most definitely, but don't condemn the people who joined up for this, they were duped, lead astray and like many "farmers", just wanted to earn a living and this is something that is a realistic topic in society. We humans still eat meat, chickens, cows, pigs, and obviously pigeons. No animal is better than another and even though this is a pigeon forum, these things do go on and unless everyone here is a vegetarian, than you really can't pass judgement on these people.

I really feel this needed to be said, and again, if I've got my facts messed up, then I will retract or make apologies for that.


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

Since I'm not a vegetarian I can't pass judgment on people who raise animals for food, either. So I do have sympathy for the farmers who were duped. I don't like to think about pigeons being raised for food, but to me it's a slightly lesser evil than if they are euthanized and tossed in a mass grave, which is wasteful and shows complete disregard for life. I'm thinking of Native Americans who respected the lives of the animals they hunted, were grateful and used every part of each animal. Wasting a life is somehow worse than taking a life as food, in my view. I don't like any of it, but it's the world we live in. My concern is that a lot of these pigeons will be turned loose and not fend well for themselves (starving or becoming prey), or be given to unscrupulous people who will do God knows what to them. It's just a huge mess and heartbreaking for all of us who love pigeons and keep them as pets.

The fact that these pigeons are not even utility breeds says to me that Galbraith set this up as a scam from the beginning; it's not and never was a legitimate business that went bust, as he claims. He had to have known this would happen and that's what I find so morally repugnant. The people he duped suffer and the birds suffer the worst, losing their lives for nothing. I hope he gets exactly what he deserves.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Cathy, 

I'm relieved to hear your comments and I agree with you of course. It's a delicate issue here and other places where people love animals and specific animals of their "admiration".

To me, hunting is "OK" too, the native Americans of our continent did this and that is how they survived. This is how human civilizations survived and there is nothing wrong with that. They ate what they killed and used the skins, feathers or anything else they could..nothing went to waste and that is the "ideal" situation for this sensitive topic.

Today, it's a much more gruesome reality. Things ARE wasted, life is disregarded but for the people who still rely on or eat meat, nothing much has changed. 

I hear you about the moral issues and if these pigeons are killed for nothing, but the fact of the matter is, the end result is/will be the same apparently. This is a disaster on a huge scale and a total waste of "life" if the pigeons are destroyed on this scale. 

There was a meeting just the other day with 250 council members, fanciers and organizations and they all strongly suggested to the people to NOT just release the birds. Hopefully this message is taken seriously but with so many pigeons involved, it's impossible to know what all goes on.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

I for one would love to see the pamplet or whatever he used to pitch this whole scheme. 
Number one, ANYONE who knows ANYTHING about pigeons, would know immediately that this wouldn't work, because those that have pigeons know how hard it is to get rid of just a few......much less, 1000's.........
Number two, ANYONE who DOESN'T know anything about pigeons, should have done their homework before jumping in head first, ESPECIALLY with that kind of initial investment............
He must have painted an awfully pretty picture................


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## TheSnipes (Apr 9, 2007)

Birdmom4ever said:


> The fact that these pigeons are not even utility breeds says to me that Galbraith set this up as a scam from the beginning; it's not and never was a legitimate business that went bust, as he claims. He had to have known this would happen and that's what I find so morally repugnant. The people he duped suffer and the birds suffer the worst, losing their lives for nothing. I hope he gets exactly what he deserves.


I don't get what his motive was, if he didn't really think he could raise lots of money off them? What the devil was he up to? This situation is overwhelming to me and I can't bring myself to think about it


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

TheSnipes said:


> I don't get what his motive was, if he didn't really think he could raise lots of money off them? What the devil was he up to? This situation is overwhelming to me and I can't bring myself to think about it


I feel the same way. I can't even let myself get involved emotionally with this one because there isn't a darn thing I can do this time. I feel utterly powerless.


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2008)

yeah to me this is on such a huge scale of hokey that its really hard to fathum, how these people let themselves get duped with non meat birds is beyond me ...you would think a farmer would at least have known a meat bird over some fancy named tumbler breed  to pay that much per pair when you dont even get that much in return for a squab  I just dont get how he duped that many people with hyflying homers dint they know that squab farming went out along time ago or wouldnt there still have been farms all over already for this ???? at a major mind bogling loss here


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

LokotaLoft said:


> yeah to me this is on such a huge scale of hokey that its really hard to fathum, how these people let themselves get duped with non meat birds is beyond me ...you would think a farmer would at least have known a meat bird over some fancy named tumbler breed  to pay that much per pair when you dont even get that much in return for a squab  I just dont get how he duped that many people with hyflying homers dint they know that squab farming went out along time ago or wouldnt there still have been farms all over already for this ???? at a major mind bogling loss here


I've been asking myself the same questions. All I can figure is that as Renee said, "he must have painted an awfully pretty picture." Some people can sell anything, otherwise scams would never work. And some people are gullible. Tragic that they didn't do their homework before they got involved. If they had, the damn thing never would have gotten off the ground.


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

My heart just shattered.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

I know this man was brought up on the forum several times in the past. When a member would ask advice about dealing with him many advised them not to but there were some who defended him.

Farmers seem to be losing ground in their industry. Faced with foreclosures, families to care for, I expect they try anything that sounds good to them. 

The irony to me is this man expects people to be sympathetic towards him because of his health when he has personally sentenced thousands of innocent pigeons to an unknown future.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Lady Tarheel said:


> I know this man was brought up on the forum several times in the past. When a member would ask advice about dealing with him many advised them not to but there were some who defended him.
> 
> Farmers seem to be losing ground in their industry. Faced with foreclosures, families to care for, I expect they try anything that sounds good to them.
> 
> The irony to me is this man expects people to be sympathetic towards him because of his health when he has personally sentenced thousands of innocent pigeons to an unknown future.


Kind of sick...isn't it.


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## myrpalom (Aug 12, 2004)

Pigeonpal2002 said:


> No animal is better than another and even though this is a pigeon forum, these things do go on and unless everyone here is a vegetarian, than you really can't pass judgement on these people.


I agree with Pigeonpal.
I also think that all of us should consider becoming a vegetarian. I am sure that everyone's heart here bleed when we think of animals being cruelly slaughtered, not only pigeons, but also chickens, turkeys, cows, pigs. Every creature of God deserves our love, protection and respect, we all agree on that. Telling yourself that one person "will not change the world" is not an excuse. The more vegetarians we are, the more impact we have. Vegetarism is the only way to save the lifes of millions of animals and to reduce hunger in this planet (think about all the cereals that are used to raise animals for food and that could be used for hungry people...). It also has been proved that many cancers are related to consuming meat.
It is not an easy choice, every day asking yourself "what to prepare for dinner?" and listening to the criticism of others, and trying to convince them. But it is worth it, every day looking at yourself in the mirror, and think: "I did not contribute to the cruel death of an animal".
This post is not meant to offend anyone or to make anyone feel guilty.
I just intend to say: "We are the ones who can change the world, because we love animals."


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

myrpalom said:


> I agree with Pigeonpal.
> I also think that all of us should consider becoming a vegetarian. I am sure that everyone's heart here bleed when we think of animals being cruelly slaughtered, not only pigeons, but also chickens, turkeys, cows, pigs. Every creature of God deserves our love, protection and respect, we all agree on that. Telling yourself that one person "will not change the world" is not an excuse. The more vegetarians we are, the more impact we have. Vegetarism is the only way to save the lifes of millions of animals and to reduce hunger in this planet (think about all the cereals that are used to raise animals for food and that could be used for hungry people...). It also has been proved that many cancers are related to consuming meat.
> It is not an easy choice, every day asking yourself "what to prepare for dinner?" and listening to the criticism of others, and trying to convince them. But it is worth it, every day looking at yourself in the mirror, and think: "I did not contribute to the cruel death of an animal".
> This post is not meant to offend anyone or to make anyone feel guilty.
> I just intend to say: "We are the ones who can change the world, because we love animals."


Everyone has to make up their own mind but...
if any of you want some recepies or tips on becoming vegetarian, there are many of us on this forum that would be happy to be of help. If not, we'll care about you just the same.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Well this problem people now face,with having to decide what they must do with the birds They bought and raised. I believe those people not only feel like they have lost great hope. But now know they have to get rid of most or all the pigeons before they do go broke. Sad that now more people will hate pigeons because of this. But It would be better for theses birds to be destroyed rather then starved to death. Because that may be the next punishment to these birds Starving to death. If the people can not feed them . And for the birds being mostly cross breed. They have much less chance of being sold or gave away. Yes some will be but the large number alone says Many will end up being destroyed.


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## Grim (Jul 28, 2007)

"Because of concerns about disease, hundreds of thousands of the birds will have to be euthanized."

People are stupid.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

WhiteWingsCa said:


> This guy was discussed a few times in this forum. It's sad that someone became so money hungry that he was able to convince people to invest in his scheme (scam?) ...
> 
> http://www.farmanddairy.com/news/updated-pigeon-king-goes-bankrupt/
> 
> ...


 As an ex-banker, I saw immediately what the scam was. I have seen it before with other animals. There is no mass market for pigeon meat. This is a typical run of the mill Pyramid scheme. 

The "Investors " were fools, and the promoter a crook ! 

I seem to recall something about this, once upon a time, and I remember thinking, that no one would take it seriously. The whole scam is based on new "Investors" bailing out previous Investors....the very early ones, may have actually made out.....the last ones in...lost everything...life savings wiped out...they were sold a dream....but it was a lie. The promoter by now, has taken out huge profits, until the law started looking around. Then he hides stuff behind "bankruptcy" laws. He may end walking away, with hundreds of thosands of dollars...free and clear. Millions of pigeons die, hundreds of familes in utter ruin, and he is laughing all the way to the bank !


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## Insomniac (Aug 21, 2007)

Grim said:


> "Because of concerns about disease, hundreds of thousands of the birds will have to be euthanized."
> 
> People are stupid.


Does this mean that none of the birds, even if just a handful, can be rescued? Are they all being seized, or something, to be euthanized?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Insomniac said:


> Does this mean that none of the birds, even if just a handful, can be rescued? *Are they all being seized, or something, to be euthanized?*


No, not at all...........we would LOVE for someone to rescue what they can. 1, 2, 500?????


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## Insomniac (Aug 21, 2007)

If shipping can be arranged somehow, I can take some...I've been desperately emailing rescues in the area that might be able to take some as well.


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

Oh, Insomniac, you're a hero! I hope you can save some of them! I couldnt believe this, i guess i missed the whole thing!



> I agree with Pigeonpal.
> I also think that all of us should consider becoming a vegetarian. I am sure that everyone's heart here bleed when we think of animals being cruelly slaughtered, not only pigeons, but also chickens, turkeys, cows, pigs. Every creature of God deserves our love, protection and respect, we all agree on that. Telling yourself that one person "will not change the world" is not an excuse. The more vegetarians we are, the more impact we have. Vegetarism is the only way to save the lifes of millions of animals and to reduce hunger in this planet (think about all the cereals that are used to raise animals for food and that could be used for hungry people...). It also has been proved that many cancers are related to consuming meat.
> It is not an easy choice, every day asking yourself "what to prepare for dinner?" and listening to the criticism of others, and trying to convince them. But it is worth it, every day looking at yourself in the mirror, and think: "I did not contribute to the cruel death of an animal".
> This post is not meant to offend anyone or to make anyone feel guilty.
> I just intend to say: "We are the ones who can change the world, because we love animals."


Myrpalom, i agree, it's a tough battle loving animals and then eating a steak completely ignorant to where it came from, what happened to the cow, was it treated well. I myself have felt in moral conflict for a long time because of it. No one here has to agree with me, or meanly disagree, just my opinion, and i believe people have to make that choice themselves, which i havent even fully made yet, so i'm not trying to preach off my high horse or whatever, but i agree with what you said Myrpalom.
I see what some of you are saying, how you would rather have it eaten then go to waste, how the indians did it, but, as you can see, there are barely any wild places left anymore, and indians, at least how they were back then, are a thing of the past, and factory farming has taken its place, and it isnt a pretty thing, no indians with feathers in their hair are chanting over the animal they just killed, its a sad and cruel place, factory farms.
Ever since i saw my first featherless pigeon it was so hard to eat chicken, i felt like i was eating squab! Also i had chickens as a child, and they are lovely birds. 
When i see Humphrey, i think of his gorgeous wings, and they would look like a chicken wing without the feathers, and it sicks me out.
Thats just what i think, agree or disagree, you guys know i still love all my Pijjie sisters and brothers here! (and Pijjie Dad, but i wont get into that!)


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

myrpalom said:


> I agree with Pigeonpal.
> I also think that all of us should consider becoming a vegetarian. I am sure that everyone's heart here bleed when we think of animals being cruelly slaughtered, not only pigeons, but also chickens, turkeys, cows, pigs. Every creature of God deserves our love, protection and respect, we all agree on that. Telling yourself that one person "will not change the world" is not an excuse. The more vegetarians we are, the more impact we have. Vegetarism is the only way to save the lifes of millions of animals and to reduce hunger in this planet (think about all the cereals that are used to raise animals for food and that could be used for hungry people...). It also has been proved that many cancers are related to consuming meat.
> It is not an easy choice, every day asking yourself "what to prepare for dinner?" and listening to the criticism of others, and trying to convince them. But it is worth it, every day looking at yourself in the mirror, and think: "I did not contribute to the cruel death of an animal".
> This post is not meant to offend anyone or to make anyone feel guilty.
> I just intend to say: "We are the ones who can change the world, because we love animals."


You are of course entitled to your opinion. 

I come from the school of thought, that we were put on this earth, and given dominion over the birds of the air, the fish of the sea, and the beasts of the land. They live to serve man, as I live to serve my creator. As such, I plan to continue to enjoy all the fruits of the land, including a diet of beef, lamb, chicken, etc. And to wear leather shoes and leather belts, and too eat eggs for breakfast. From a personal taste perspective, I draw the line at cats and dogs, and pigeons and the like, but that is for each reader to decide. I share this personal view as a human being, and not as a Moderator. As a Moderator, you are all free to your own respectful views.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

As the daughter of a preacher, that word dominion came up a lot in discussions about it between my mother and my father. They were similar discussions to the ones on this thread although much more heated.
Dominion means having control ..just that...it doesn't mean to be cruel or mean to or treat with a lack of respect. For me, that is a great deal of this issue. When aniamls are "processed' from the beginning of their life to the end of it, most likely they have been treated cruely or in a mean way. Certainly they have been disrespected.

Warren, I don't think you would ever be mean or cruel to an animal.
It's very good to have these discussions. It's good to think.


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## Noisy_minor (Jun 20, 2008)

i googled pki yesterday because i didnt know what it was. i read only a fraction on a page and thought how could people be fooled into this. it was based on the bird flu wiping out chicken. and there were warnings in december about it. why didnt farmers start getting out then or downsizing there flocks. money is the evil behind everything in this world. i hope you guys save a few on these birds. i also had a thought *drum roll* there are so many people on this forum now and in the past that could be contacted that have rehabbed young ones and sucsessfully released them to join feral flocks could this be done with the babies you may be able to save say 50 birds but thats 50 birds that will get a chance to survive?????????? if every 1 paid like 5 bucks a squab it may cover the cost to get them into the states.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Noisy_minor said:


> i googled pki yesterday because i didnt know what it was. i read only a fraction on a page and thought how could people be fooled into this. it was based on the bird flu wiping out chicken. and there were warnings in december about it. why didnt farmers start getting out then or downsizing there flocks. money is the evil behind everything in this world. i hope you guys save a few on these birds. i also had a thought *drum roll* there are so many people on this forum now and in the past that could be contacted that have rehabbed young ones and sucsessfully released them to join feral flocks could this be done with the babies you may be able to save say 50 birds but thats 50 birds that will get a chance to survive?????????? if every 1 paid like 5 bucks a squab it may cover the cost to get them into the states.


I think it would be much more than 5 bucks a piece. I think they also must have veterinary exams and a clear health certificate. Shipping alone would be much, much more than $5. It really is overwhelming. It would be much easier if they were in the US, even then, the number of them is mind boggling.


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## Guest (Jun 27, 2008)

you also have to remember that there are thousands in the USA already from the pki that are also in need of homes too so it doesnt make any sense to try and bring these canadian ones across the border.


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## Noisy_minor (Jun 20, 2008)

really that sucks i didnt relise they had to go for tests and stuff oh well i thought it was a good idea when i thought of it maybe just ignore the thred i just posted sorry 

cheers


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Noisy_minor said:


> really that sucks i didnt relise they had to go for tests and stuff oh well i thought it was a good idea when i thought of it maybe just ignore the thred i just posted sorry
> 
> cheers


It was a kind and loving idea and I thank you for it.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Charis said:


> I feel no saddness what so ever for the investors....only the birds.


Amen to that! Hard for me to feel sorry for people breeding pigeons for food. The poor birds are the biggest victims here. Funny........Greedy people try to grab it all. Usually, what they end up with is nothing. Oh well..............


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## Guest (Jun 27, 2008)

its weird how all these pigeons were ment for food but no one is trying to eat them ? not that I would ever eat a pigeon but ummm its like they would rather give them away then eat them .. I just find that very odd, a good thing non the less but still very odd


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## jeepsterwannabe (Jun 22, 2008)

Jay3 said:


> Amen to that! Hard for me to feel sorry for people breeding pigeons for food. The poor birds are the biggest victims here. Funny........Greedy people try to grab it all. Usually, what they end up with is nothing. Oh well..............




You do not have to agree with their actions to feel sympathy for their family or their family finances. You only have to be human. The birds are absolutely victims of a man's greed. I am not sure if you have been around many farms, I grew up in a county full of them and they were not millionaires, they barely made ends meet, like alot of other people. Granted these were not factory farms. Even the property owners of factory farms are never super prosperous, alot of times they are just property owners who contracted with corporate farms. The corporate farm comes in builds the farm the way they want and charges it to the contract, then they require upgrades on equipment so often that are also charged to the contract so that the property owner barely makes enough to pay bills. when the contract ends in ten years the corporate farm may or may not re-up. if they dont, the owner is stuck with alot of equipment that is specific to the factory farm and may even owe money to the corporate farm. Mr. property owner may have a hard time getting a new contract because his place is "outdated". Then Pigeon King makes an offer that may pay the bills and Mr property owner bites, less out of greed but more out of desperation. This is not the same for every situation but i have seen it happen many times here.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

*At Least Seven Years of Bad Luck ahead.....*



Charis said:


> I think it would be much more than 5 bucks a piece. I think they also must have veterinary exams and a clear health certificate. Shipping alone would be much, much more than $5. It really is overwhelming. It would be much easier if they were in the US, even then, the number of them is mind boggling.


Charis,

The logistics alone, and yes it comes down to money, make this a losing situation for all involved, including the pigeons. 

Birds "Imported" into the USA in such a situation, would be required to go through a 30 day quarentine. With this expense and numerous shippings, you are talking far...far...in excess of $5 per bird. You are talking north of $200 each, under normal circumstances. For me to bring birds in from Holland ran over $300 a piece. Perhaps by the tractor trailer load, some economies of scale could come into play, but that is impossible. 

A simple search of the web could have uncovered this scam, but people will often fall for something when they desperately need or want it. The very vast majority of these birds are doomed. Their fate was sealed one way or the other, many months ago. There may in fact be a market for their meat, but that is many thousands of miles away. Had the owner had a choice, they would have happily shipped these birds off to slaughter. 

They made an investment, and it failed to pay off. Now that it has gone bust, they realise they were willing to sell the bird of peace, to be eaten.

And now, they attempt to save their own souls. 

I feel sorry for them, because they did not know what they were really doing. In addition to the total loss of their investment, they now face many years, if not decades of "Bad Luck". 

I would not wish their situation on any one, they have only just begun to feel the effects of hell on their lives.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

*The End*

Someone has dredged this thread up from June 26th and personally, I think it's time to put it to rest.
This is an awful situation that is way way too big for any of us to do any thing about.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Charis said:


> Someone has dredged this thread up from June 26th and personally, I think it's time to put it to rest.
> This is an awful situation that is way way too big for any of us to do any thing about.


Life is not always pretty. 

This is a very sad, and down situation. But simply closing the thread does not really stop the pain of all involved, does it ? 

We can gradually remove the reminder, but life and reality is still here with us. Simply because there is no solution, does not mean that lessons can not be learned.


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## jeepsterwannabe (Jun 22, 2008)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Life is not always pretty.
> 
> This is a very sad, and down situation. But simply closing the thread does not really stop the pain of all involved, does it ?
> 
> We can gradually remove the reminder, but life and reality is still here with us. Simply because there is no solution, does not mean that lessons can not be learned.





This is a very very sad situation for the birds and the families involved, not defending the pigeon king guy, but the farms he used are going to suffer from this too


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

jeepsterwannabe said:


> You do not have to agree with their actions to feel sympathy for their family or their family finances. You only have to be human. The birds are absolutely victims of a man's greed. I am not sure if you have been around many farms, I grew up in a county full of them and they were not millionaires, they barely made ends meet, like alot of other people. Granted these were not factory farms. Even the property owners of factory farms are never super prosperous, alot of times they are just property owners who contracted with corporate farms. The corporate farm comes in builds the farm the way they want and charges it to the contract, then they require upgrades on equipment so often that are also charged to the contract so that the property owner barely makes enough to pay bills. when the contract ends in ten years the corporate farm may or may not re-up. if they dont, the owner is stuck with alot of equipment that is specific to the factory farm and may even owe money to the corporate farm. Mr. property owner may have a hard time getting a new contract because his place is "outdated". Then Pigeon King makes an offer that may pay the bills and Mr property owner bites, less out of greed but more out of desperation. This is not the same for every situation but i have seen it happen many times here.


Well, I still feel so sad for the birds. Such a waste of life. To die so needlessly. At the risk of sounding INHUMAN I'm sorry, but it is still hard to feel sorry for people who breed this way, and for this purpose. The whole thing is sad all around.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Life is not always pretty.
> 
> This is a very sad, and down situation. But simply closing the thread does not really stop the pain of all involved, does it ?
> 
> We can gradually remove the reminder, but life and reality is still here with us. Simply because there is no solution, does not mean that lessons can not be learned.


Warren...I agree with you 100%. I will not forget...this will haunt me in the middle of the night...it already has. As a child, growing up at the rescue mission on skid road, I was powerless to save the pigeons poisoned by the police. I have always carried them in my heart and have done everything possible in my adult life, to intervene when needed, rescue that creature human or otherwise that needed my help...I honestly live my belief system. This one makes me feel helpless because it is so big. I feel like that 4 year old girl again... that... and I'm weary of the arguing.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Well, it is a sure thing we can't hide from this situation and I, personally, would like to continue hearing about these pigeons. We can only hope and pray that they don't suffer but I'm not going to hide my head in the ground simply because it upsets me. 

I may have a weird outlook about things like this but deep in my heart I feel I "owe" it to these precious souls to read about them and pray for their well being. I accept that there are some things I have no control over and this is one of those times. I can only continue to take in the young, injured and ill that are suffering and hope it compensates in some way for tragedies like this.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Lady Tarheel said:


> Well, it is a sure thing we can't hide from this situation and I, personally, would like to continue hearing about these pigeons. We can only hope and pray that they don't suffer but I'm not going to hide my head in the ground simply because it upsets me.
> 
> I may have a weird outlook about things like this but deep in my heart I feel I "owe" it to these precious souls to read about them and pray for their well being. I accept that there are some things I have no control over and this is one of those times. I can only continue to take in the young, injured and ill that are suffering and hope it compensates in some way for tragedies like this.


I don't think that is a weird outlook at all. I kinda feel that way too. It's just such a sad thing.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I read that many of these birds have already been destroyed.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Charis said:


> I read that many of these birds have already been destroyed.


They were.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I believe my understanding is correct that even if these birds had been sold for food, they weren't even meat birds. Renee...is that your understanding too?


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Charis said:


> I believe my understanding is correct that even if these birds had been sold for food, they weren't even meat birds. Renee...is that your understanding too?


Yes, the fast majority of these birds are NOT intended to be used for food. I don't want to get too deep into to this.........but, this doesn't mean that they CAN'T be used for food. It's just not what a person who buys the meat for consumption would be looking for. There are bigger pigeons that are for this purpose.......God, I hate even talking about this...........


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Lovebirds said:


> Yes, the fast majority of these birds are NOT intended to be used for food. I don't want to get too deep into to this.........but, this doesn't mean that they CAN'T be used for food. It's just not what a person who buys the meat for consumption would be looking for. There are bigger pigeons that are for this purpose.......God, I hate even talking about this...........


I know what you mean.


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## jeepsterwannabe (Jun 22, 2008)

So are all these farms in Canada?


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## Birdmom4ever (Jan 14, 2003)

jeepsterwannabe said:


> So are all these farms in Canada?


No. There were quite a few in the U.S. as well.


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