# Bird Flu In The Uk !!!!



## sweetpea (Aug 20, 2004)

Hi all, I have been a behind the scenes memeber for about a year now, but I just had to post when I heard this weekend's latest news - bird flu has been confrimed in France. I feel it will be only a matter on time before the UK has it's first confrimed case. Can any members give any advice as to how protect birds or reducing their chances of contacting this virus. I have Ma & Pa the ringneck doves in an aviary in the garden and Bibbi a dove I have hand reared since 5 days old, and she lives indoors. I am worried that with spring approaching and birds migrating to the UK it will speed up the spread of this virus and I would like to get any preventive measures in place. Any idea's


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Here is DEFRA's advice, it is aimed at poultry keepers but the principles are the same. I think that doves, like pigeons, don't get the disease, but you don't want people to even think that doves could be a source of the infection:

http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/diseases/notifiable/disease/ai/pdf/protectleaflet.pdf

This is the link to the DEFRA avian flu page, I read it regularly to keep up to date:

http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/diseases/notifiable/disease/ai/

Cynthia


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Hi Sweetpea,

I had some similar questions to yours and started a thread called "Avian Flu" a while back. You might want to read the comments there and it could put some of your worries to rest. It is at:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=13536

Cameron


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## pigeonpoo (Sep 16, 2005)

Here's a link to Avian Flu info provided by: Dr. Paul G. Miller PhD, DVM & GM RPRA:

http://www.klakpigeons.co.uk/cgi-bin/forum/Blah.pl?b=cc,m=1140343250

Pigeonpoo


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

After reading several articles on the bird flue. It does show that safe practices have much less chance in seeing a majar problem. As for the US industry the methods in which poulrty is kept and produced. There is much more control to exposer. flocks being kept inside for either egg or food production isolates them from wild type or other poulrty That may or will come in contact with afected birds. Other countries that keep poulrty outside are at chance for desaster. Wild and domestic birds can readly come in contact with the desease. The watch for the U S now will be spring and testing birds in Alsake that may migrate from effected countries. And a rapid isolation of any effected area to reduce spread. The mixing of a human viros mutateing with present human form Will set the course for human to human spread of a new flue that They say would take up to 4 months to produce enough vaccines to help control it. This would be the main facter. Now human to human spread once it does happen this year or 20 years from now. It could spread very fast and create a large toll on te elderly weak and people that already have health related problems. They do encourage people to stay current on flu shots each year To help reduce the chances of mutation. That by mixing this with a known flu that will become that human flu. Now the good thing is PERHAPS this may cler up if managed right. But for now the spread is getting in large areas of the eastern world.


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Yup, since it's now in Asia, Europe, Africa and Eurasia it seems it is just a matter of time before it reaches us here in North America. Best to be guarded and educated on it now as many millions of birds will surely be killed by the disease before it transmutes to a human disease. 

Cameron


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

When it hits the shores of the US, and it is only a matter of time, not if. Expect to see numbers of pigeon lofts "Depopulated" in the panic. That means various "storm troopers" killing your pets. Oh, not to let other countrys out of this, they will kill their fair share also.

The real question then becomes, what methods can you take to avoid having your valuable breeding stock killed along with everyone else's ? This is what concerns me about national loft registration.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hmmmmm...


It's a mess...


Phil
Las Vegas


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> The real question then becomes, what methods can you take to avoid having your valuable breeding stock killed along with everyone else's ? This is what concerns me about national loft registration.


Though all of us should be practicing good biosecurity with our birds and animals all of the time, I would certainly suggest taking a careful look at just how diligent you are in this regard.

During the Exotic Newcastle Disease epidemic here in Southern California, being able to clearly demonstrate and prove that your biosecurity was good and thus your birds unlikely to have been infected saved more than a few birds being kept in private situations. Obviously it didn't save any of the millions of chickens that were killed, but the commercial poultry places were one of the largest vectors for spreading the virus and largely because they were careless and had little or no biosecurity. 

Having been there and done that during END, I can truly assure each and every one of you that you don't want to be found lacking when H5N1 makes it to North America.

As to registering your lofts or not .. I can't say. There were pigeon racers here buying bands from JEDDS and other places and refusing to give their contact information for fear the END Task Force would find them through their band registrations. In the final result, most places where birds were being kept were found anyway through other sources such as questioning feed and supply stores and even going so far as asking mail carriers to report any locations on their routes where the carrier knew birds were being kept.

I can see perhaps safety in numbers by pigeon racers being certified by the AU, IF, or another national organization as a "safe" loft and can also see value in these organizations trying to assure that their members know what to do and what not to do in the face of something like END or the Avain Flu. Still, I guess it's up to each individual to decide what the best course for them might be.

Here is a link to an article on the AU website regarding avian flu and the stance of the AU regarding same: http://www.pigeon.org/news/news.php?ID=45 

There is a wealth of information at http://www.cocka2.com/newcastle/ about biosecurity and some very, very scary reports of what actually happened here during the height of the craziness. I strongly suggest you go and read through this site if you are concerned for your birds.

Terry


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

I think that Things would not come to the point of destorying the loft pigeons. The exception I would think is those that keep poultry near there pigeons. In a open area. I have seen some lofts that put chickens under the loft to clenup per say the spilled feeds. I believed it then that this was not a good practice. Yes scared people do scared ideas. Panic pushes buttons. But I have not heard of lofts in other countries being destoryed as yet. When I do I might think it can happen here.. They are still saying The U S will be different as better measures are all ready in place adding protection to the poultry industry. It would be the back yard poultry THat would be effected I think. Near here Is a large fly way of canadian geese every years. Numbers say 40 50 thousand winter at a refuge. Now that could show problems. BUT I do hope this is a matter that nature will balance out. As as a rulew left to its own means. Nature does balance out its problems. AS long as man does not overly feed into the problem. Seems the wild birds were effected by the kept poultry. So when the kept birds are maintained Then the wild ones will decrease The spread. This may be a slow act. But It will I think happen. I believe in natures balance.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Nine swans found dead in various parts of the UK are being tested and retested.

So far, tests on them for avian flu have shown negative.

The UK's bird flu spokespersons say that poultry keepers will be ready to house their birds inside at 24 hours notice.

The biosecurity recommendations for the UK involve mainly housing birds in such places as will not allow entrance or contamination by wild birds. We think that, for our aviary birds, the fact thay the whole structure can be made outside-bird proof will fulfil the requirements should they come into force.

We are more concerned for the white pigeon flock near the river, where most of our injured or sick white birds came from. They are fed there in proximity to waterfowl, which will be the most obvious 'suspects', and may be caught up in any 'action' that may be taken just because of that.

John


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> We think that, for our aviary birds, the fact thay the whole structure can be made outside-bird proof will fulfil the requirements should they come into force.


I think that when it gets here (I have no doubt at all that it will) we will need to take bio security a bit further, disinfecting footwear on entrance and exit, for example...but what about new rescues? How and where do we isolate them?

Cynthia


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

*Planet Infestation !*



re lee said:


> I think that Things would not come to the point of destorying the loft pigeons. The exception I would think is those that keep poultry near there pigeons. In a open area. I have seen some lofts that put chickens under the loft to clenup per say the spilled feeds. I believed it then that this was not a good practice. Yes scared people do scared ideas. Panic pushes buttons. But I have not heard of lofts in other countries being destoryed as yet. When I do I might think it can happen here.. They are still saying The U S will be different as better measures are all ready in place adding protection to the poultry industry. It would be the back yard poultry THat would be effected I think. Near here Is a large fly way of canadian geese every years. Numbers say 40 50 thousand winter at a refuge. Now that could show problems. BUT I do hope this is a matter that nature will balance out. As as a rulew left to its own means. Nature does balance out its problems. AS long as man does not overly feed into the problem. Seems the wild birds were effected by the kept poultry. So when the kept birds are maintained Then the wild ones will decrease The spread. This may be a slow act. But It will I think happen. I believe in natures balance.


Re Lee, I believe that in the end, good ole Mother Nature will balance things out. But, what if that means ridding the planet of the human infestation, by perhaps a few hundred million or a billion or two ?


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

The hard decisions would be if the virus were to mutate to attack species which so far have proved resistant to it. If it could mutate to allow human to human infection, then who knows how else it could develop? 

Provided nothing changes in the situation where all the evidence shows that pigeons do not contract it or carry it, I don't see we can do any different to what we (you) already do. 

The unpalatable fact is, the only 100% safe option would be to avoid contact with *any* bird which appears sick, to avoid any possible contamination, however remote.

Hopefully it won't come to that!

John


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Warren Yes There will be more human deaths because of this. But What i am thinking is the bird flue has to run a course through the natureal method befor it slows and turn around.. What they health side is seeing. It can mutate over to a person to person. Then it may kill many. But I hope befor that nature takes its balance back. It as i have read. Not really caused by natures way But by mans actions towards production in unsafe manners. And then it spread to the wild birds. And now it has to balance there. But yes man is the top of natures beings. But also the forgeter of natures way. Perhaps it will never come to a large reduction of man kind. We as people have to learn though we feed many and raise so much for food. Its not the way to make birds and animals walk eat and sleep in there own filth. That has been done. And now It has been done for to long. Health has to be a issue for man and natures creatures.


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## Keys & Eyegone (May 9, 2004)

Well I'm not sure about everybody else but I'm getting alittle scared. I have a low amune system cause when I was 3y/o I had gotten Double pnamonnia Viral, and ever since then had a low amune syatem actually. My doctor gave me a call on Friday to talk to me about this flu and he said with my low amune there is a really high possiblity that I can get it if I come in contact with it and I could very well died, he gave me some odds but I put them out of my head cause they weren't good at all. If you would look on a map Atlantic Canada will most likely the first stop (or Nunavt/Northern Quebec) and that is where I happen to live. We get A LOT of migritory birds in the spring and summer too. 
My sister is going to try and get me some of those SARS maskes from the hospital so when it does get here I'll have a better chance of not getting it. 
I don't want to stop my rehabing this year but my mother is freaking out of her mind about it. I've been trying to calm her down but now she doesn't want me to rehab this year AT ALL!!! I CAN'T just stop!! I'm scared too but not enough to stop doing what I love to do. I completely understand why she's so scared for me but I had rather dieing doing something I love than dieing doing nothing at all. 
Also, when my ACO (Animal Control Officer) friends go get birds for me is their a protocall they should follow when it gets here???
Thanks everyone.
Hilary Dawn


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## Mistifire (May 27, 2004)

That was a good link Terry, I saved it. The information I have found says that it is mainly transmitted through droppings from wild birds, so if you could put a cover over your outdoor pens and make sure the mesh is too small for birds to get in I would do it. 

I was researching the stuff that greenhouses are made of to see if they would be impermiable to droppings or runoff that may contain the virus but I am not sure yet. If it does, it would allow sun light in still. 

I will be implimenting a way to keep shoes out of my home, or in an isolated spot with a bath or spray to disinfect them first, Since all of my birds are inside. 

I have also heard that if you register with nais they have the right to enter and kill birds without a warrant, research it before you register.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

It has now been confirmed that the dead swans in the UK were not suffering from an avian flu

Fortunate, however, that people are being diligent in reporting such cases.

John


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Thanks Terry for your comments and links,

I am glad to see there is now a good discussion about the potential side effects and risks to our birds that could result from a bird-flu pandemic. This in my mind is not something that can be avoided anymore and the better informed we all are the better off we will be. We could all put our heads in the sand but not this case I don't think. Not anymore anyway.

Several years ago I recall there being a serious bird illness spreading in the Lower Mainland of British Columbia (Canada). Perhaps someone, (Brad) with a long memory can remember what that outbreak was. Anyway, the birds that were getting sick were of course chickens and the causes were linked to overcrowding, poor farming practices and disease carried by migratory birds. The outcome was that the authorities were exterminating all birds in a certain radius to infected farms, be they chickens, ducks, specialty and rare species etc. The paranoia got so heated that even birds in proven bio-safe areas with no possible exposure were destroyed because they were within the designated danger radius of infected farms. The farmers and owners were devastated, emotionally but also in some cases financially. My point is that this extermination was done on a geographic basis and that is all the authorities could see. So it was done. 

History repeats itself. I can't really see things being done any differently in the US as they were done here except that they may be done more efficiently in your county. If any of you watched that very good programme on TV not so long ago about the Black Plague in London during the dark ages you would have been struck by the similarities taking place today. At that time the authorities blamed cats and dogs for spreading the plague, little knowing it was rats and the fleas that lived on them that carried the disease.

In the hysteria that followed every single cat and dog that could be caught and found was destroyed. The outcome was that the rat population exploded in the abscence of predators and thousands more people got sick and died needlessly. 

From what I now know though, you are not at risk from birds who have not been in contact with ill domestic or migratory birds (and the bird feces which is know to spread the disease). At this time it is still very rare for a person to get infected with bird flu even in cases of people who work with and slaughter chickens, ducks etc every single day. Nor are your birds necessarily at risk from you if it becomes a human form of disease as it would no longer be a bird-illness then. There is some uncertainty about it all though. Bartuska wrote a good post on the subject that you might want to read: I guess my point is let's get all the facts before the panic starts and we get pressured into giving up birds unnecessarily

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?p=103461#post103461


Cameron


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Cameron,

I believe you are referring to an avian flu strain of H7N3 in British Columbia in 2004: http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/cpv8126

I could be wrong .. let me know if this rings the right bell with you.

Hilary,

I'll try to find out what our ACO's were doing (if anything) during END and will let you know.

Terry


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Thanks Terry that could be it. I will have to go back into the archives to check because my brain doesn't seem to contain it fully anymore. It does sound familiar and 2004 is about the right time. Possibly earlier though. I am thinking maybe even 2003.

Cameron


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

Keys & Eyegone said:


> Well I'm not sure about everybody else but I'm getting alittle scared. I have a low amune system cause when I was 3y/o I had gotten Double pnamonnia Viral, and ever since then had a low amune syatem actually. My doctor gave me a call on Friday to talk to me about this flu and he said with my low amune there is a really high possiblity that I can get it if I come in contact with it and I could very well died, he gave me some odds but I put them out of my head cause they weren't good at all. If you would look on a map Atlantic Canada will most likely the first stop (or Nunavt/Northern Quebec) and that is where I happen to live. We get A LOT of migritory birds in the spring and summer too.
> My sister is going to try and get me some of those SARS maskes from the hospital so when it does get here I'll have a better chance of not getting it.
> I don't want to stop my rehabing this year but my mother is freaking out of her mind about it. I've been trying to calm her down but now she doesn't want me to rehab this year AT ALL!!! I CAN'T just stop!! I'm scared too but not enough to stop doing what I love to do. I completely understand why she's so scared for me but I had rather dieing doing something I love than dieing doing nothing at all.
> Also, when my ACO (Animal Control Officer) friends go get birds for me is their a protocall they should follow when it gets here???
> ...


Hilary Dawn,

I copied and pasted the following post written by Warren of SmithFamilyLofts...it is from a discussion regarding "Pigeon Lung," but the mask that is featured in the link he provides within the post may be something that would be helpful to you and also help ease your parent's concerns if you were able to use one when doing rehab.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Perhaps it is my experinece in working with military biological and chemical warfare training situations. I am convinced the various protective gear available, will work with these hazarous materials, and thus certainly the proper protective gear will work with our pigeon lofts.

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/unp-intrecppe.htm

Your typical Home Depot respirators sold to protect againest paint fumes and chemical agents, will work on particles smaller then 3 microns. If one is really concerned, a NIOSH-approved, pressure-demand SCBA in conjunction with a Level A protective suit, is available, used in responding to a suspected biological incident. So the equipment is available, if one has the the resouces, and the desire to employ such protective measures.

Realistically, a simple M-95 protective mask is overkill enough. My point is, if there is the will, there is a way.

http://www.scotthealthsafety.com/m95.htm
__________________
Warren

http://smithfamilyloft.com/ 

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hope this may be helpful to you.

Linda


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## sweetpea (Aug 20, 2004)

Thanks for all the advice and time for replying. At the moment my avairy is only half covered on the roof, as Ma and Pa really love to sit in the rain and sunbathe. I will now fully cover the roof and as an extra precaution I will stop feeding the wild birds


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

This is a quotation from question and answers (by exoerts) panel in the UK.

It doesn't mention that pigeons don't get it.

Where can I find an authoritative source that confirms pigeons don't gat it so that I can make my contribution to these Q&A sessions make an impact?



> If as you say "humans catch the disease through close contact with live infected birds. Birds excrete the virus in their faeces, which dry and become pulverised, and are then inhaled", *why is nothing being done about the large pigeon populations is many town centres*? Surely they must be a very high risk to large number of people of all ages.
> 
> Mr P Wilkinson, Isleworth
> 
> ...


Cynthia


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

cyro51 said:


> Where can I find an authoritative source that confirms pigeons don't gat it so that I can make my contribution to these Q&A sessions make an impact? Cynthia


Hi Cynthia,

According to this blurb from the AU site, pigeons can get the current strain of bird flu that has everyone concerned. There is a link to the entire article earlier in this thread in one of my posts.

Terry

_Finally, research shows that while PIGEONS DO GET H5N1, THEY SHOW NO CLINICAL SIGNS THAT THEY ARE SICK. There is no valid research to prove that they can transmit the disease either to another animal or to a human or that they harbor the virus and serve as pools or amplifiers of it. Although infected pigeons with H5N1 do develop antibodies, we have no information on the gross physiologic effects of the disease on our birds._


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

It gets pretty confusing!

I just saw the article, Terry, and whilst it says that pigeons may get it, it also pretty much refutes the idea that they actually get sick like fowl or that they transmit it - and that is what people are concerned about.

Much the same comes from the Canadian side:



> Over a number of years, several scientific studies, some of them done in Canada, have shown that pigeons are generally resistant to Avian Influenza viruses. More recently in 1996, Dr B Panigrahy and co-workers of the National Veterinary Services Laboratory, USDA in Ames Iowa, showed that pigeons were resistant or only slightly susceptible to Highly Pathogenic or Low Pathogenic Avian Influenza viruses.
> 
> In 2002, Drs Laura Perkins and David Swayne of the Southeast Poultry Research Laboratory, USDA/ARS in Athens Georgia, reported that 4-week-old pigeons – some of which were infected with circovirus which severely damages the immune system – did not develop signs of illness and did not shed virus at any time after they were inoculated with a Highly Pathogenic H5 Avian Influenza virus.
> 
> ...


But with a potentially mutating virus, there are no certainties!

John


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

I do not think that the virus will mutae in birds. The worry is when it mixes with a human spread virus Mutaing to the point its spread human to human. BUT I still hope nature finds its balance and the virus slows to a stop. As you notice from the past few years the virus does not surface until the cooloer months set in. Then it progresses. Says it does not tolerate warmer conditions well to me. And most flues the same they surface in cooler weather. I guess this may be due to when its cooloer its also more moist longer. And the virus as others can thrive better. Its showing to that exposer is better delt with if you have a better managed inside or sheltered area for poultry. And less direct contact with excreations.


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

*H5n1 Q&a*

I will post a link (below) to a Canadian Site that was produced by our own CBC, the Fifth Estate about H5N1 and how you can protect yourself from it. It is a Q&A about the illness, preventative measures, social ramifications, medication etc etc. Good reading and not that long. It may be of use to some people.

http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/nextpandemic/answers.html#prepare

Cameron


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