# I THINK I found a pigeon! I have no idea what to do!



## xx_Care (Feb 19, 2006)

I found this little guy in my backyard ealier today. He was injured on his back (By further inspection, I realized it wasn't that bad) so I picked him up trying to help. He let me, and actually, more than happy to have some company. He wasn't moving much, and seem tired.. (Rightly so, lol, if I were an injured pigeon, I wouldn't sleep, because of fear of enemies either!) So I brought him inside, and wrapped him in a towel, put him in my closet to sleep (It's dark in here, I figured it would be easier to sleep there). He's woken up now, and I have NO idea what to feed him, or how to care for him. I can't take him to the SPCA or Vet, they won't take wild bird.. I've tired a few times now, when I found wild baby birds. He on't fly either.. Or maybe he can't. He might JUST be out of his youth. Heres a picture of him:








Notice his beak? I'm not sure if thats a PIGEON beak.. Is he a certain type, or another species entirely? Also, note that I'm going to put up posters around my neighborhood, and at the SPCA, and Vets office, incase he was a tame Pigeon who was lost.. He may be because he's so tame. Also, he hasn't made a peep since I saw him.. Is that normal for a pigeon? Please hurry and reply people, I have NO idea how to care for this fellow! Help!


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thank you so much for taking this beautiful pigeon in.

It is a pigeon and might be breed, maybe a homing pigeon. He certainly is a beautiful bird.
He might be someons lost pet and/or too weak or even sick to fly.
First provide him with a deep bowl od water and see if he drinks. After he drinks a few times you can try give him some food.
A wild bird seed mix would be ideal, but I guess you won't have that on hand. If you have dry peas, lentils, corn (unsalted), barley, any wheat, rye you can mix those and offer them to him.
Please get back on us and let us know if he eats or drinks and we take it from there.

As for the wound on his back you can cleanse it first with diluted peroxide and apply some neosporin cream or better silvadene if you have.

Reti


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Hello and welcome to pigeons.com. 

Thanks you for taking in this ijured and possibly lost pigeon. It appears to be a younger bird. That thing above its beak is called a cere, and yes it is a pigeon,and a beautiful one at that. 

It could very well be someones pet or lost homer. Does it have a band around its leg?

There is a resource link right above this post that you wrote (called a thread) and there you can read up on how to provide care for your newly found pigeon in greater detail. 

Isolation and warmth...important. 

Do you see any blood or missing feathers?


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## xx_Care (Feb 19, 2006)

He has no bands on his legs, no. There is a littel blood, but it's dried.. I figure he's been wounded for a few days. There isn't any FLOWING blood or anything, and I can't see the actually wound... Just dry blood. I don't think he's been gashed open or anything, I'd see that., Probably just a scrape that bled a littel to much.. Here's a picture of the wound. 








I have Budgie food here with me... Is that okay to feed him? (I own a little blue budgie, named Cloud. Very cute.) I've given him water too.. I havn't SEEN him drink it, but he's been alone for awhile, he may have drank some.


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Thank you for replying Reti. We posted almost at the same time. 

xxcare...please keep us up-dated and please don't hesitate to ask questions!


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## xx_Care (Feb 19, 2006)

He has a few missing feathers also, but not enough to worry about.. Just some of his down.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Guess we did Victor, thank you too for replying.

I still would clean out the wound and also check other areas for any injuries. Like under the wings and the underside.

Budgie food would be ok for now. Maybe tomorrow you can get him wild bird food. He also will need grit.

Does he have droppings? What doe they look like.
If he is eating he should also have a lot of droppings.

Reti


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

XXcare thanks for posting the second image. Might be cat wound, wouldn't you say Reti?


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

XX Care~ pigeons that are hurt generally will not fight you off . They tend to wing slap and peck at you...even those of us that have pigeons as pets do it.This one is not. They also tend to hide their pain very well.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

It looks mostly like he's been hit by a hawk and got away (that happens). They will often fly to exhaustion or get enough blood loss to feel weak and need some time to regenerate.

However, they can also succumb to certain diseases (you're safe) that can have rendered them grounded and therefore subject to dog or cat attack. Anyhow, it's certainly good to get them on an antibiotic in case of infection by Pasteurella multocida. That's kinda' tough on a Saturday night to acquire some though so you're probably just going to have to provide warmth, safety, food and water.

Pidgey


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Victor said:


> XXcare thanks for posting the second image. Might be cat wound, wouldn't you say Reti?


I can never really tell if it is cat or hawk injury. But both are bad and I treat them the same.

If you have Clavamox, that would be helpful in preventing infection.

Reti


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Victor,

I've gotten a few such birds in to rehab, some that were homing pigeons on the way... well... home from a race. I think hawks are like fighter pilots in that they'll cunningly dive out of the sun onto a fast-moving pigeon if they have to. They make a grab in the air and the pigeon gets a bit slashed. I think they hope to puncture a lung with those back talons and drop the bird quickly and watch to see where it goes down. If it gets too far away then they don't bother and many of those end up landing in someone's backyard.

Pidgey


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## xx_Care (Feb 19, 2006)

Thanks for the advice everyone. I have two cats, and a dog at my house, but none of them would have hurt this bird, lol. Both of my cats have seen him now, and were terrified by his size. Pigeons arn't usually seen around here, part of the reason why I think he may be owned by someone, and escaped. Also, my dog is too stupid to have done it, she'd have chased the bird away,b/f she got close enough to do any damage. It may have been a neighbor's animal, or a hawk. We have alot of eagles around here, it may been one of them too. I've been trying to clean the wound just with a spray bottle and a cloth, but it's rather hard to get in there.. He must be in the midle of molting, he has a good mumber of pin feathers.. There are a few right by his wound, so I have to be careful there.. It's a time consuming process lol, but he isn't fighting me. What I am worried about it that he isn't flying yet. I've been pondering that.. Perhaps he's just to eghausted to try? Or he may be young, and not perfected the art yet.. does he look young to any of you?


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

xx_Care said:


> What I am worried about it that he isn't flying yet. I've been pondering that.. Perhaps he's just to eghausted to try? Or he may be young, and not perfected the art yet.. does he look young to any of you?


Well, s/he may not be old but is not a youngster too young to fly either. The cere is well developed and quite white .. in young pigeons the cere is pinkish and not so well developed.

It could be exhaustion or the wound may be causing enough pain that the bird prefers to be pampered for now.

Thank you so much for caring for this injured pigeon.

Terry


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

He looks easily old enough to be flying. The cere (the white on the top base of the beak) is white enough to suggest full adulthood.

You have to understand that when they're feeling bad, they'll often be very tame. That's because they're just so weak that they can't be bothered to care. When they've had a few days of TLC, they often get to feeling their oats and start flying around and generally wreaking havoc. Once in awhile, you come across a real sweetie that decides THIS IS THE LIFE! and then you're adopted.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Actually, that wound suggests quite a lot of bleeding that probably sprinkled some behind while in flight. That should take a few days to recover from the blood loss alone.

Pidgey


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## xx_Care (Feb 19, 2006)

Thanks for the help everyone. I havn't finished cleaning the wound.. I decided to wait a little bit, let him get some rest for the night.. Tommorrow, I'll get some posters made up, and get him some real food.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Hello xxCare,
Many thanks for helping this most stunning pij.

If you are unable to locate the owner, perhaps you could post your general location as there may be a rehabber nearby that can assist you.

Please do keep us posted & don't hesitate to post any further questions or concerns. 

Cindy


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## Pete Jasinski (Jan 2, 2005)

What a beautiful and extremely lucky patient you have there! I'd say he looks like a keeper


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi xx care,


...very pretty Pigeon...!

I think also likely a Hawk attack injury...

Cats do not tend to do much on a Bird's "back" like this, but go for shoulders and Wings and necks. Hawks hit them from above with their Talons.

Can you describe the Bird's poops so far?

Anyway, for now, yes, do get him some Pigeon type Bird Seed, and or regular big-bag Bird Seed many Grocerys sell...and of course a little wide bottom so it does n ot spill easy bowl of Water deep enough for his whole Beak to be in so he can drink.

If you have a warm place for him to rest, warmth would be good for him, and, an electric heating pad with a small towell layed on it works well for this. If you want to set it to 'medium' just press your wrist into it once it is warmed up and see if it is comfortable...if too hot, add another towell layer or two till is is tolerable for your wrist, then, that will suit the Bird nicely. 

That and make sure he can be on or off the Heating Pad as he likes, so leave enough room for that in whatever you are keeping him in for now.

He might well have been injured several days ago and by now, is starting to get an infection...

If new 'pin-feathers' are growing in there, he might have been injured even longer ago, weeks ago, and these are replaceing Feathers lost in the attack. This would also suggest something such as an infection or illness is keeping him from flying.

So...tell us what the poops are like so far, and keep him warm...get him some good Seed and see how his appetite is...

Good quality Canary seed is fine of course, but larger Seeds are better...

Plain old fashioned un-popped 'Pop Corn' is usually enjoyed also, and is easy to get small bags of.


Good luck with him...!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Thank you for taking in this lovely pigeon.

The bird is probably in shock, that is how pigeons respond. They don't respond to their environment and allow you to pick them up.

Please put the bird on heat as already suggested and then offer the hydration fluid.

Here are a couple of links you can try to find help. Please make sure they are pigeon friendly and won't put the bird to sleep. as some rehabbers and vets don't want to be bothered.

http://aav.org/vet-lookup/

http://www.pigeons.com/prd.htm

http://www.tc.umn.edu/~devo0028/contactA.htm#il


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

In addition to the other info given here, you can spritz the feathers with water to part them and look for wounds/broken skin underneath. Some folks lift against the growth and blow. If you find wound(s) site(s),
you can dilute hydrogen peroxide with water--one part to ten--and clean the wounds w/that, also an anti-biotic topical cream is better than ointment for the feathers, provided that the wound is not too deep. Hopefully you'll be able to locate someone that can help you with the pigeon. It's a really beautiful bird, btw.

fp


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## xx_Care (Feb 19, 2006)

He's poops are runny and green.. Unhealthy, I know. I've made him a nest, adn he has a heater.. It was adorable really, I turned the heater on, and he waddled right over, and sat down in front of it. So he's got his nest and heat, and I'm getting him more water right now. He's still only got teh budgie food, but I'm out to get some wild bird food and grit, as soon as I can get a ride out to the market. (Hockey game is on. *rolls eyes* So no one in my house wants o move.. Even for the poor little injured Pigeon. I think I should admit them to Cruelty to Animals really. I'm only 15, or I'd drive myself out there. Erg.) I'm making posters too, and hopefully his owner will contact me soon. His wounds are clean now. They must be a few weeks old now, because there are new pin feathers right around them. Also, he doesn't seem to want to eat.. Maybe he just wants grit, but I'm not sure. Thanks for all the advice guys. It's very helpful.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi xx care,


if you possibly can, find a sympathetic Avian Vet or experienced rehabber who can do a fecal exam/analysis, or, if you can spring the 25 bucks or whatever it is, call 'FOYS' Pigeon supply ( do a 'google' to get their number and address) and a.s.a.p, send some fresh poops next day Air to them and they will do the analysis. Talk to them first of course and get the details.

Your Bird might very well have an infection of Coccidiodis or other slow killing or debilitating illness which is effecting them generally as well as diminishing their appetite.

Are the poops 'dark' green and looking like dabs of Artist's Tube paint?

Or pale green and fluffy like little broken snake bits in clear syrup?

No 'yellow'?

Anyway...

If some solids are still passing as poops, he would have eaten s-o-m-e-t-h-i-n-g anyway not too long ago...but not eating contributes to his disadvantage of course for fighting whatever illness he may have, so, a diagnosis and regimen of medication should be something you see about obtaining as soon as possible.

And or the aid of an experienced rehabber if he needs to be tube-fed for now.

Where are you loaced? If you said, I forgot, so remind us if you would?

We might have a member near you, or might know of a good Avian Vet near you somewhere.


Likely your Bird would benifit from having their drinking Water be the 'ACV-Water', and to do this, you need to get some 'raw' Apple Cider Vinegar ( any Health Food Store or Health Food Section of larger Grocery Stores) and...

Mix one and a half Tablespoons of that into one Gallon of good quality Water, and for the next week, let that be his drinking Water...

Too, you will see if he seems interested in eating later when you present some nice regular Bird Seed...but, if he was not interested in the Canary Seed, he might just not be interested in eating at all right now.

The ACV-Water will help regardless of what is going on, and may help his appetite too...


Good luck...!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## xx_Care (Feb 19, 2006)

I live in Nanaimo, on Vancouver Island in BC. 

His poops are more yellow now, and there is a LITTLEbit of thinkness to them. He doesn't seem to have touched the budgie food, or the un-popped popcorn yet, but yesterday, (while I wasn't looking..) My little sister and her friend fed him popped popcorn. They said he ate that, so I hope it hasn't hurt him. He's resting now, not really asleep, but just resting. Hockey game is nearly over (Canada's not doing so hot, I'm very disappionted in them) so I'll be able to go get him some real food and stuff.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

xx_Care said:


> I live in Nanaimo, on Vancouver Island in BC.
> 
> His poops are more yellow now, and there is a LITTLEbit of thinkness to them. He doesn't seem to have touched the budgie food, or the un-popped popcorn yet, but yesterday, (while I wasn't looking..) My little sister and her friend fed him popped popcorn. They said he ate that, so I hope it hasn't hurt him. He's resting now, not really asleep, but just resting. Hockey game is nearly over (Canada's not doing so hot, I'm very disappionted in them) so I'll be able to go get him some real food and stuff.


Thank you for being so attentive to this lovely bird.

Please don't give the bird popped popcorn, it is not good for them, okay?

Is he drinking? Please do get him some wild bird seed and make sure he eats about a tablespoon of it.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi xx care,


When I see 'yellow' here in Las Vegas, it is always 'Canker' ( or Trichomoniasis iin one form or another).

It often follws injury or mishap when a Pigeon starves or is compromised and weakened, ( or preceeds injury ot mishap by weakening them or grounding them). But either way, it is a routinely background organism which usually is in their system doing nothing, but when it can gain the upper hand, it pounces.

If it were me, I would begin treatment as absolutely soon as possible with the appropriate meds.

Not eating, is a typical side effect of this illness when it is advanced beyond some early stage.

Please make some calls to locate an experienced Avian Vet, or Bird-rehabber or Wild Life rehab place or Pigeon Club's members for Racing Pigeons or Fancies, Bird supply stores or Pigeopn Supply Stores, or even Farm stores, if you can find any near you, to locate some meds on short notice.

You could call some Pharmacys also to see if they have any, and, if so, if they need a perscription or not. If they need a perscription then you need to see a Vet or MD to have them write one. Or go see thePharmacist, tell them your tale, and beg a few tablets if they will let you, and note their particulars so we can guide the dosage.

Some of the meds are -

Ronidazole...Dimetridazole...Metronidazole...'Spartrix'...'Emtryl'...

If you go on-line to 'Foys' or other web-sites, you can order some with a credit card now and arrange to have them sent next-day air to be to you Tuesday, but honestly, 'Tuesday' might be too late or damagingly close to it.

You need to make haste on this, or, at any rate, it is not worth the gamble not to.

Good luck...!


Maybe we have forum members not too far from you...if you post a new message to catch their eye, "Urgent! Seeking members near Van Couver Island !" or something, possibly some of them would have the right meds and you could get started on the treatment today or tonight or tomorrow morning.


Best wishes...!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## xx_Care (Feb 19, 2006)

He's getting better I think. He's drank some water now. I dipped my finger in the water, and touched it to his beak, and he drank that, and then when I put the bowl closer to him, he drank quite a bit. I don't think he realized that there was water in it at first. So he's hydrated now. But I don't think he has eaten much.. I bought him some "wild pigeon food" and grit, but he doesn't even to have touched it. He's sleeping now. He's been sleeping alot.


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## xx_Care (Feb 19, 2006)

Guys, Problem. One of his eyes have sort of glazed over. It's stuck closed. You can see a sort of film sticking it closed.. Thats never a good sign.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

You can take a piece of clean cloth and with warm water try to clean the eye.
Let us know if it works.
Reti


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

xx_Care said:


> Guys, Problem. One of his eyes have sort of glazed over. It's stuck closed. You can see a sort of film sticking it closed.. Thats never a good sign.


Sorry to hear of the onset of another issue. 

I scanned over your thread & noticed that canker was mentioned but I didn't see where is was suggested you check the inside of the birds mouth for a 'yellow' cottage cheese appearing substance. This would be canker. If this has been suggested, I apologize for the duplicate suggestion. The mouth may also have a sticky mucous inside, which sometimes accompanies canker.
If you haven't done so, could you gently open the bird's beak & take a look? It should be nice & pick & clear of any obstruction.

Are you able to get a picture of the eye & post it?

Cindy


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi xx care,



Please read :



pdpbison said:


> Hi xx care,
> 
> 
> When I see 'yellow' here in Las Vegas, it is always 'Canker' ( or Trichomoniasis iin one form or another).
> ...



I am worried, that if your Bird has Trichomoniasis, and, to some pretty high order of probability, he does...or, even if he has some other remotely possible illness that makes for 'yellow' in the poops, then, either way, this has definite 'time value'...and, if you keep on like you are, you will very likely be seeing him going quietly down hill from here, and perish by the middle or end of the week...so...

Consider please to treat for 'Trichomoniasis' now...and or additionally, get a fecal analysis done to determine what if anything 'else' he might have which that kind of analysis can reveal.

Please, take this info in earnest...!


Best wishes...!

Keep him 'warm'...!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

pdpbison said:


> Hi xx care,
> Wake up!
> Lol...
> 
> ...


Phil,
* I don't know if you noticed, but this member is only 15 years old. He/she seems to be doing the best they can. 

Cindy


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Cindy,


Sorry, I do not understand your complaint...


I am writing to them with the earnest and respect and matter-of-factness I think they can handle just fine.

This seems like a totally cool and interested person to me, who needs clear information to proceed with.

I think they are pretty together and able for someone of any age...and of course dealing with what for them, is a lot all at once.

And I would be very surprised if they have any problem with being 'reminded' of something they appear to have either missed entirely, or to have accidentally dismissed as unimportant from this all being rather new to them.

I see no problem here...!

I am sure they are fine with it, and if not, if I offended them somehow in being 'business like', then I hope they will free free to say so and let me know.


Otherwise, everything here should be just fine...

Love,


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

pdpbison said:


> Hi Cindy,
> 
> *Meaning...
> * Best not remind them of a potentially life-and-death bit of info?*
> ...


* No, not at all Phil. I was just pointing out that this member is only 15 & I'm quite sure doesn't have the means to order meds via a credit card, or able to _*'go see thePharmacist, tell them your tale, and beg a few tablets'* _, therefore, their only option for the time being, is to keep in contact with us & do the best they can. 

** Perhaps we were thinking on the same line, as you were editing your post at the same time I was replying to it. 

Cindy


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## xx_Care (Feb 19, 2006)

Here's a picture of his eye.. The other one is just fine by the way. He can open it a little, but not much. When he does, his eye is covered over by a film. I did try to clean it with a wet, warm cloth btw... It seems to help at first, and he opend it a little, but after a while it just got worse. He won't let me touch it now.









And I thought I'd just show you a picture of his poop too... when I saw this one, my insides kinda flipped.. None have looked this bad yet. This one is rather desturbing.. It shouldn't look like that at all, I know.









Also, there is NOTHING strange in his mouth.. I've checked three times now. The first time there was a sort of mucus strand.. But after he drank something he was fine. And the other fines I checked there was nothing. Oh, and he seems to have lost his balance btw. Keeps walking off the edge of things.. including my hands. Also, when he goes to lie down, he sort of flops to one side. I checked his feet, theres nothing wrong with them.. I think he may just be tired. I'm keeping him warm, and he has plenty of water, and food. (But I don't think he has touched the food or grit yet either..) Hes' getting lots of rest btw.


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## xx_Care (Feb 19, 2006)

Oh, and I should note also, that he's sort of smelly now. He smelt fine when I first found him.. You know, that "bird" smell. Except he smelt a little unwell.. Kind of like a wet dog. But now he just smells foul. It must be the poop. His vent isn't very clean, and while taking the last picture above, I was nearly gagging. This can't be a good sign can it?


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Xcare, 

Was the eye like this when you found the pigeon? Is it watering at all or any mucous there? The "film" you're describing might be the birds 3rd eyelid. Birds have a 3rd eyelid that they can close but it's very transparent still.


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## xx_Care (Feb 19, 2006)

The eye was fine when I first found him. It was bad this morning, but it's gooten worse since then. It happened over night (last night). It MAY be his 3rd eyelid. He can't open it more than just slit, and from what I can see, it's sort of fogged over, and I cloudy. I can't see an iris.


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Can you get to the drugstore and pick up some antibacterial eye drops? It could be something called "one eye cold" that has affected him now. It's caused from bacteria that gets into the eye. It could be something else as well too. You would buy polysporin ear/eye drops and place one drop in the eye per day and this could help.


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## xx_Care (Feb 19, 2006)

Just Human stuff? I have some upstairs.. I'll give it a try.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi xxcare,


I am puzzled that you seem to completely ignore my and other's previous mentions to you about the almost certainty of Trichomoniasis or 'Canker' being afoot here, and, you are now narrating the slow predicted dieing of your Bird for whom you have neither obtained appropriate meds, nor replied to germain and succinct advise about doing so.

While others claim that being "15" means being beyond reason or sense, I myself am still willing to give you the benifit of the doubt.

Maybe, having already wasted a very seriously precious and not to be got back 'day', if you are both very lucky, you can m-a-y-b-e, still save this Bird, but probably not, now anyway, unless you get some meds tonight...but if you waste another day not getting meds and treating for 'Canker', my bet is you will just keep narrating how he is getting worse and falling over more and getting smellier, and, by tomorrow night, if not tomorrow morning, he will be dead.

When I eanestly suggested some information has 'time value', and or get him to someone in your area who has experience, it is not because I had nothing else to do but blather to some one who is not interested, and who will not even acknowledge anything having been mentioned, instead of getting my own Work done here...

Are you interested?

...or not?


Or...?

...what gives?

Will you explain please?

Best wishes, still, of course!

If puzzled by your consicuously ignoreing the several previous implores...

Your Bird is dieing as you watch and narrate...

...do you "yes" or "no" wish to do anything constructive about this to help them, or not?

And if 'so' then why not listen and reply?



Hello???

Sadly, 

Yours,


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

xx_Care said:


> Just Human stuff? I have some upstairs.. I'll give it a try.



Yes, make sure they aren't expired, one drop per day.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

xx_Care said:


> Oh, and I should note also, that he's sort of smelly now. He smelt fine when I first found him.. You know, that "bird" smell. Except he smelt a little unwell.. Kind of like a wet dog. But now he just smells foul. It must be the poop. His vent isn't very clean, and *while taking the last picture above, I was nearly gagging*. This can't be a good sign can it?


I must say xx_care, you are quite the little trooper.  

Thank you for posting a picture of the affected eye & droppings. This helps us to help you in determining what might be going on.

The loss of balance *may* possibly be due to lack of eating or the fact he is unable to see properly. 

Is the pij on a heat source, e.g., a heating pad (set on low) or a hot water bottle?

Please do keep us posted. 

Cindy


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## xx_Care (Feb 19, 2006)

I'm sorry I'm not following your instructions as carefully as I should be Phil, I really am. But it's a little more difficult than it seems. I'm pretty much stranded out here. My parents could be a ****e about this poor pigeon, and I'm doing the best I can with what resources I have. I've been in a similar experience as this one.. It was a baby bird, and I ran around to all neighboring Vet offices, and SPCA, and none would help. There are NO pigeon havens around here either.. Pigeons arn't big in Nanaimo. I also don't have the cash to slurge on meds even if I could find a vet would give them to me... I'm littlerally BROKE. If I had the cash, I would be more then willing to do what was nesicarrly to save this poor bird but it's not the case.. And like I said before, my parents couldn't care less. I'm on my own here. I'm doing what I can, with what little I have. If anyone else in my family have found the bird, they probably would have fed it to our cats.

Now should I use the the human polysporin ear/eye drops on him or not?


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## xx_Care (Feb 19, 2006)

Alright, I'm going to use the eye/ear drops now, thx. The heater is on low yes, he's snuggled right up close to it.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

pdpbison said:


> Hi xxcare,
> I am puzzled that you seem to completely ignore my and other's previous mentions to you about the almost certainty of Trichomoniasis or 'Canker' being afoot here, and, you are now narrating the slow predicted dieing of your Bird for whom you have neither obtained appropriate meds, nor replied to germain and succinct advise about doing so.
> 
> *** *While others claim that being "15" means being beyond reason or sense,* I myself am still willing to give you the benifit of the doubt.
> ...


Phil,
Why don't you send xx_care a private email requesting his/her address so you can *one day* the meds to them?? 

*** BTW: I absolutely *did not* say, *or* infer, anything of a kind Phil, nor did any other member that you might be referring to.  

What I said was:
"I was just pointing out that this member is only 15 & I'm quite sure doesn't have the means to order meds via a credit card, or able to 'go see thePharmacist, tell them your tale, and beg a few tablets' , therefore, their only option for the time being, is to keep in contact with us & do the best they can." 

Cindy


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

"Eye" wise...

'Neosporin' is fine...just apply by gently 'rolling' some on with a Que-Tip...

Do not 'rub', but 'roll' it on...

Do not rub his eye with any more cloths or anything, just let the 'Neosporin' be on there and you can apply more again later.

Good luck...

Best wishes...

Phil
Las Vegas


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi,

I have some doxycycline, amoxicillan, nystatin, metronidazole and Cipro (closely related to Baytril) on hand as well as some Chlor Palm (chloramphenicol). I could send xxcare if needed, as well as a 1cc dosing syringe. I live in Canada, so there would be no inspection issues.

My thoughts are if I had the bird and could not get to a vet, wildlife centre or rehabber I would probably treat with the metronidazole as well as an antibiotic, most likely the Chlor Palm.

If I sent it tomorrow it could be there on Wednesday, anybody have any thoughts?


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## xx_Care (Feb 19, 2006)

Alright I put the eye/ear drops on.. I put some in both eyes just to be safe. 

And I'll do that Phil, I'm sure we have some neosporin around here..


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

xx_Care said:


> I'm sorry I'm not following your instructions as carefully as I should be Phil, I really am. But it's a little more difficult than it seems. I'm pretty much stranded out here. My parents could be a ****e about this poor pigeon, and I'm doing the best I can with what resources I have. I've been in a similar experience as this one.. It was a baby bird, and I ran around to all neighboring Vet offices, and SPCA, and none would help. There are NO pigeon havens around here either.. Pigeons arn't big in Nanaimo. I also don't have the cash to slurge on meds even if I could find a vet would give them to me... I'm littlerally BROKE. If I had the cash, I would be more then willing to do what was nesicarrly to save this poor bird but it's not the case.. And like I said before, my parents couldn't care less. I'm on my own here. I'm doing what I can, with what little I have. If anyone else in my family have found the bird, they probably would have fed it to our cats.
> 
> Now should I use the the human polysporin ear/eye drops on him or not?



Hi xx care,

Yahhhh...do the 'Neosporin' and 'roll' it on useing a que-tip...do not rub it on...


Keep him warm if you can...

Offer Tepid Water in some little cup, and you can offer it so you hold it to where his Beak dips into it...



So, just make him as comfortable as you can...warmth and quiet and no drafts...

Sorry...

Best wishes, 

Phil
Las Vegas


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## xx_Care (Feb 19, 2006)

Jazarro.. My heart nearly skipped a beat when I read your post, I so much want to say yes. Arg. But my mother is one of those internet safety poeple. I can't give you my address. I've tried to argue my piont across, but my parents couldn't care less. I'm like on the verge of tears here, I can't believe they'd be so heartless. I've tried to see if theres any other address I could ask you to send them too, but no luck. I can't believe them.. and the only reason I don't have cash on hand (if I did I'm buy my own meds in a heartbeat) is b/c my motehr won't let me get a job. This is driving me insane!


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

xx_Care said:


> Jazarro.. My heart nearly skipped a beat when I read your post, I so much want to say yes. Arg. But my mother is one of those internet safety poeple. I can't give you my address. I've tried to argue my piont across, but my parents couldn't care less. I'm like on the verge of tears here, I can't believe they'd be so heartless. I've tried to see if theres any other address I could ask you to send them too, but no luck. I can't believe them.. and the only reason I don't have cash on hand (if I did I'm buy my own meds in a heartbeat) is b/c my motehr won't let me get a job. This is driving me insane!


xx_care,
You are doing a wonderful job, given you are unable to utilize any resources.

Please keep us posted on how things are going. 

Cindy


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

*Call These Folks For Help ..*

Hi xx care ..

Do a Google search on "wildlife rehabilitation Vancouver" .. you will get several links .. call them .. I spoke with http://www.wildliferescue.ca/

Give them and others a call until you can get the help needed for this bird.

Terry


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

xx_Care said:


> Jazarro.. My heart nearly skipped a beat when I read your post, I so much want to say yes. Arg. But my mother is one of those internet safety poeple. I can't give you my address. I've tried to argue my piont across, but my parents couldn't care less. I'm like on the verge of tears here, I can't believe they'd be so heartless. I've tried to see if theres any other address I could ask you to send them too, but no luck. I can't believe them.. and the only reason I don't have cash on hand (if I did I'm buy my own meds in a heartbeat) is b/c my motehr won't let me get a job. This is driving me insane!


xx_Care,

I feel for you because you are in a tough situation, trying to help on your own within the limitations of the adults you must listen to.

Terry - would any of the herbal remedies from Treesa's thread be of any help here if they could maybe be gotten from a local health food or nutrition store? I don't know if xx_cares parents would even drive there or provide the money, but if they would be willing, maybe it would be better than nothing at all...
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=12627

Just a thought....

Linda


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## Norwich-guy (Mar 6, 2005)

xx_Care said:


> Jazarro.. My heart nearly skipped a beat when I read your post, I so much want to say yes. Arg. But my mother is one of those internet safety poeple. I can't give you my address. I've tried to argue my piont across, but my parents couldn't care less. I'm like on the verge of tears here, I can't believe they'd be so heartless. I've tried to see if theres any other address I could ask you to send them too, but no luck. I can't believe them.. and the only reason I don't have cash on hand (if I did I'm buy my own meds in a heartbeat) is b/c my motehr won't let me get a job. This is driving me insane!


Hi xx Care

I'm in Victoria and i no pigeon people in your area. How could we get this bird to one of them?


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi xx care,

I think it kind of throws me off when I spend a while writing very succinctly and deferentially and carefully to a respondant, only to find they conspicuously ignore it to then make matters both confuseing and confused.

Too, if you never intended to make even any calls to see about locating help or meds in your area, then mention this motive as reason for ignoreing previous implorations to do so,"because you are broke", it confuses matters also.

I know you mean well...you are trying with limited resources.

However, if you had at least acknowledged the info as if it had some import, or as if you had read it, or as if it had been offered to you ingenuously and in good faith, then there would be less confusion.

You could very possibly have obtained the meds with no money merely by communicating with others in your area...by making telephone calls to the kinds of places mentioned to you to try.

As it is, this is messy now and sad and today was probably the only day you had time-wise to get going on the meds, and by doing nothing, you have pretty well cinched the fate you now narrate poignantly with the smell getting worse and his falling over and so on.

This is why I was trying to get your attention after you had not in any way let on that there had been any previous mentions of this Bird being in some real trouble with almost certain, and now even more certain end-stage Trichomoniasis/Canker.

I am sorry you would not even try to make those calls...

Otherwise, you have done well for someone new to this.

I will leave your thread now I think...

It is too messy for me not to feel exhasperated.


Best wishes, 

And I am very sorry...

Phil
Las Vegas


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Folks,

This bird needs to get some where for care .. I've given a good link to call in the morning. Please, do listen to them and take them the bird.

Terry


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Norwich-guy, you're a life saver. Hope you can help this bird get some help.

Sounds like there's no cash on hand for even herbal remedies, but if there is, and an aquarium supply store or pet store w/aquarium supplies is in the area, then they frequently carry something called Fishzole @ 250mg's a pill in smaller packages. That would be metronidazole (Flagyl). 

fp


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

AZWhitefeather said:


> Phil,
> Why don't you send xx_care a private email requesting his/her address so you can *one day* the meds to them??
> 
> Cindy



Hi Cindy,

Sadly, because it is 'Canada'...

And as far as I know, there is no overnight Mail or next day from the U.S. because of Customs delays.

Too, today was a silly Holiday here in the U.S. and the Post Offices were closed.

That means 'Wednesday' even if it were possible, and by Wednesday this Birs is almost certainly going to have been expired.

I wanted xx care to spend last night making notes on calls to make, or making those they could, and, to make calls today during business hours to places that either would have the meds, or who could refer them to others who may...from there, they could see about the logistics of getting with those people or getting some meds and so on.

Time...

Has value in these things sometimes...

I did not want to see them waste what little time they had, and now of course this is all overlabored and messy with how it went and I feel exhausted with being so redundant and pestering.


...sigh...

Oh well...

Please excuse me...


I made the important schpiel yesterday, and, if they wantyed to ignore it, I guess I should respect that from now and and shut up and let them ignore it.

I will meditate on this lesson...

Anyway, I have work to do and this has become a time waster for my things being neglected while I make all this messier than it was.


So...

Till next...but not till later...


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Norwich-guy (Mar 6, 2005)

xx Care, have you called the s.p.c.a in Naniamo. I know that the Victoria office has a bird person that they contact as i used to be the pigeon guy they contacted. Ask them about pigeon people in your area they will know someone who could help with this pigeon.


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi xxcare,

I understand your parent's concern and respect this.

I think the one thing that everyone is in agreement on is that your little one needs experienced help as soon as possible. I feel bad that it seems you want to help this bird badly but are limited by age (your parents) and resources. The link that TAWhatlet (Terry) provided seems is located in Burnaby. Terry did you speak with them there and will they help? Nanaimo where the bird is located is on Vancouver Island across the water and a good distance from Burnaby. Perhaps they have an affiliate on the island.

Also, xxcare, perhaps you could pull out the yellow pages and start calling the vets in your area. There may be one that is willing to help or knows a someone such as a local rehabber that can.

I guess part of the responsibility you took on, whether you realized it or not, is to try 100% to help. You are trying extremely hard, but a few extra percent may make all the difference for your sick little one.

If you parents change their mind I will send you the meds, in the mean time pull out all the stops tomorrow to find some help.


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## xx_Care (Feb 19, 2006)

Phil.. I really am sorry. I'm so sorry. I should have done more for this bird. I'm sorry. And I know that me saying so won't help this pigeon, but I just want you to know that. I really am sorry. I should have done something else.. And know he's sick, maybe beyond repair.. I'm so sorry.

And thank-you everyone who feels for my situation with my un-feeling parents, but Phil is right.. I should have done more. I'm so, so sorry.

I phoned "Second Chance Wildlife", located in southern Nanaimo. Maureen picked up, and when I told her about our Pigeon, she said it was probably too late. She said to phone her again in the morning, and then bring him into the Island Vet first thing. She SAID that they don't charge for wildlife, so I'll hold her to it, but I've tried to give them animals b/f, and they've never taken them.. Oh, I hope he'll be alright. Maureen said he probably won't make it through the night though. I can't believe how easy it was to get ahold of someone who was willing to help around here. I'm so sorry everyone. I should done this days ago...


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi XCare, 

There is no need to apologize so much, we understand that you're/have been doing your best. We also understand the situation that you are in as a most difficult one with your parents being unwilling to help and the fact that you are younger and limited.

I'm glad to hear you got in touch with someone though and hopefully the bird will make it through the night. They are tough little animals so there is still time.

Good luck and please do keep us updated if you can in the coming days.

Thanks for all that you did and thanks for even coming to look for help in the first place!


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Xxcare,

Please do not be too hard on yourself, the important thing right now is that you found some help, although still a little while away. Do not give up on your little one just yet.

Is the bird being kept warm and is it drinking or eating?


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## xx_Care (Feb 19, 2006)

Thank-you eveyone for being so pacient with me. I really am sorry.

Maureen told me over the phone that they won't eat when it's dark, or sleep when it's light.. And since I had left the ligths out most of teh time, he probably was sleeping. She told me to leave the nights on for an hour, and then, turn them out. Thats what I did. I'm not sure if ate or drank anyting during that hour, but I dought it. I hope he makes it through the night. Please, please let him make it. I'll keep you all posted. Good night. *crosses fingers* I'm so sorry everyone.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Just a suggestion on his liquids. You might want to offer him a 'rehydrating' solution.

*To a cup of room temperature water add a pinch each of salt & sugar*. This just might give him the boost he needs to carry him through the night.  

Please keep in mind xx_care, if not for you, your rescued pij would most probably have died at the claws of a predator. You offered him warmth, security & love & for that I "thank You".  

I hope you have a restful night. I will be thinking good thoughts for you & your little patient.

Cindy


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## Guest (Feb 21, 2006)

*Relax*

Hey xx_care...I think you're pretty hard on yourself. It's good that you're taking the life of this pigeon seriously, unlike the rest of your household. At the same time I think you need to relax. It's hard to think clearly when you're stressed and frustrated. I know that is easier said than done, but I really recommend you don't get yourself too twisted up by your own feelings. It's bad for you, and it doesn't help your patient.

Monica


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, after going back through this entire thread and looking at the pictures, I think it's a very complicated disease process, probably multiple. That poop picture looks more like an enteritis and with the eyes doing what they're doing I'd tend more to think Chlamydiophyla (Chlamydiosis, Ornithosis, Psittacosis). However, couple them together (the symptoms) and you may be looking at a Salmonellosis that's presenting at least the enteric and ocular forms. 

Sure, trich could be in there somewhere but this appears to be way more than that. I'd think the bird needed to be hit with a very big gun (Baytril or Cipro) along with Metronidazole AND be tube-fed with something like Kaytee at the same time to keep its strength up. And the prognosis would STILL be "Guarded" to "Poor".

And another entire possibility could be "O-C" or "Ornithosis Complex" which is a general health failure that goes with a bad Chlamydia infection and that demands the Tetracyclines. All in all, this bird may be and have been beyond the talents of most rehabbers and many vets anyway. A miracle can still happen, but what a lot to go wrong and quickly!

Pidgey


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## xx_Care (Feb 19, 2006)

...He didn't make it. I'm so so sorry everyone. I know the chances were slim but.. I still find myself thinking if I had got him help first thing on Saturday, that he would be alright. I'm so sorry. I really was trying to help, I was. I just went about it the wrong way. I was so sure no out there would want to help me. I'm so sorry.

I swear, for as long as I live, That if I ever come across, and injured animal, or one in need of help, I'm going to find it professional help immediantly... I'll call whoever needs to be called, and I'l search until the ends of the earth until I find someone who can help them. I'm so so sorry everyone, but this story has an unhappy ending.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

xx_Care said:


> ...He didn't make it. I'm so so sorry everyone. I know the chances were slim but.. I still find myself thinking if I had got him help first thing on Saturday, that he would be alright. I'm so sorry. I really was trying to help, I was. I just went about it the wrong way. I was so sure no out there would want to help me. I'm so sorry.
> 
> I swear, for as long as I live, That if I ever come across, and injured animal, or one in need of help, I'm going to find it professional help immediantly... I'll call whoever needs to be called, and I'l search until the ends of the earth until I find someone who can help them. I'm so so sorry everyone, but this story has an unhappy ending.


xx_Care, I'm very sorry to hear that your rescue didn't make it. For all of the kind hearted folks who try to help injured birds and animals, there are always the ones that don't make it as sad and painful as this is, it does happen to even the most experienced. The positive side is that now you do have some
links locally and here to go to for help, and I hope you continue to remain active here. It was a very kind hearted and compassionate deed that you endeavored in regardless of the obstacles you faced.

fp


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, xx_Care,

I'd like to ask a question about the original wound--can you give us any details about its location? It's possible that it was a burst wing boil and that's where the blood came from. Try to be as detailed as you can. If it's what I'm starting to think it could have been, you would have needed immediate treatment with a pretty high-powered antibiotic and you (or a rehabber) might not have been inclined to do that from the beginning. Sometimes, the clinical picture doesn't resolve (can't figure out what the problem is) until it gets almost too late to do the right thing.

Pidgey


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

I'm sorry Xcare to hear this news today but please don't put all the blame on yourself. You did your best and you came here looking for advice. Sometimes these things happen and since it's only been two days, he would have likely died anyway. We don't even know how long he was outside in bad shape before you found him.

Thanks for caring and trying.


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## xx_Care (Feb 19, 2006)

He had a big gash on his neck.. Well, more like his shoulder, but it had healed over.. It didn't heal right though. It sort of healed all along the open part, instead of just sealing it off again, so that when it had all healed it looks sort oflike he had ahole in him.. I know that probably doesn't make sense, but it looked desturbing at the least.. But it at least has skin over it. He had slashes all down his back.. three in a row, and a larger one further down his back. It looked liek a raptor just grabbed him from above. Like it stepped on him. Alot of dried blood, and most of the wounds were healing. He had pin feathers all through everything. Most weren't rooted in right, or very sick looking. He also had a small puncture wound under his left wing.. which probably explains why he wasn't flying, but I didn't realize it was there until the end. I'm not sure how old his wounds would have to be. Most were healed or healing, and he had pin feathers everywhere. Actually, most of his feathers WERE pin feather.. you could still see the sheath on alot of them. Maybe he just went through a molting, but I think he had probably been injured a few weeks ago, and had some time to heal. I'm so sorry everyone. I should have gotten help earlier on.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

xx_Care said:


> ...He didn't make it. I'm so so sorry everyone. I know the chances were slim but..
> * *I still find myself thinking if I had got him help first thing on Saturday, that he would be alright*.
> 
> I really was trying to help, I was. I just went about it the wrong way.
> ** *I was so sure no out there would want to help me*. I'm so sorry.


Good Morning xx_Care,
Thank you for the update. I'm sorry the little one didn't make it.

* The fact you found him Saturday afternoon, your chances of finding anyone, of a professional nature, to help you on a weekend were next to impossible. 

** I believe you posted earlier that you tried to find help for animals you had rescued previous to this pij & no one would help. Given your past experience, I can understand your frustration on seeking help once again.

Please don't dwell on the negative, only the positive. 
You gave this pij shelter & love rather than leaving him in the wild. 
You found a valuable website, 'us' ) ), to come to anytime. 
You have access to folks in your area that you now know are willing to help you.

Please don't be a stranger. When time permits, we would enjoy hearing from you. 

Cindy


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## xx_Care (Feb 19, 2006)

He had a big gash on his neck.. Well, more like his shoulder, but it had healed over.. It didn't heal right though. It sort of healed all along the open part, instead of just sealing it off again, so that when it had all healed it looks sort oflike he had ahole in him.. I know that probably doesn't make sense, but it looked desturbing at the least.. But it at least has skin over it. He had slashes all down his back.. three in a row, and a larger one further down his back. It looked like a raptor just grabbed him from above. Like it stepped on him. Alot of dried blood, and most of the wounds were healing. He had pin feathers all through everything. Most weren't rooted in right, or very sick looking. He also had a small puncture wound under his left wing.. which probably explains why he wasn't flying, but I didn't realize it was there until the end. I'm not sure how old his wounds would have to be. Most were healed or healing, and he had pin feathers everywhere. Actually, most of his feathers WERE pin feather.. you could still see the sheath on alot of them. Maybe he just went through a molting, but I think he had probably been injured a few weeks ago, and had some time to heal. I'm so sorry everyone. I should have gotten help earlier on.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

xx_Care said:


> He had a big gash on his neck.. Well, more like his shoulder, but it had healed over.. It didn't heal right though. It sort of healed all along the open part, instead of just sealing it off again, so that when it had all healed it looks sort oflike he had ahole in him.. I know that probably doesn't make sense, but it looked desturbing at the least.. But it at least has skin over it. He had slashes all down his back.. three in a row, and a larger one further down his back. It looked liek a raptor just grabbed him from above. Like it stepped on him. Alot of dried blood, and most of the wounds were healing. He had pin feathers all through everything. Most weren't rooted in right, or very sick looking. He also had a small puncture wound under his left wing.. which probably explains why he wasn't flying, but I didn't realize it was there until the end. *I'm not sure how old his wounds would have to be. Most were healed or healing, *and he had pin feathers everywhere. Actually, most of his feathers WERE pin feather.. you could still see the sheath on alot of them. Maybe he just went through a molting, but *I think he had probably been injured a few weeks ago, and had some time to heal*. I'm so sorry everyone. I should have gotten help earlier on.


From your description, it appears the pij had been injured a while before seeking your help. Infection very likely set in & became trapped within the body due to the wound healing over before it could be cleaned. 

No more apologies are needed.  You did your best. 

Cindy


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

I'm very sorry the bird didn't make it but am also very thankful for all your efforts to help. Don't be too hard on yourself .. sometimes things are just too far gone for us to be able to save the bird.

Terry


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## KLaw (Feb 12, 2006)

xx-care, you did so many wonderful things for this poor injured bird, please don't be hard on yourself. I don't know any other 15-year-olds with your compassion and intellect, you are an amazing person. The bird knew you were trying to help, and you did the best you could with the knowledge and resources that you had. He came into your life to help you learn, and you have learned a lot. You eased his final days and gave him comfort to the best of your ability at that time. Don't be sorry, be proud of yourself for caring so much and doing your best. You are a great person.

Kathy


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I've had several die while I was trying to educate myself and I don't see the need to jump on myself for them and, therefore, no need to jump on you either. Well, it sounds like there was a true hawk attack and some kind of infection that set up later. It could have been a systemic Pasteurella multocida or any number of things. That would have required the right guess up front because there doesn't seem to have been much time, really.

Pidgey


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I am so sorry the little one didn't make it and I am very sorry you had to go through this heartache.
You are a wonderful, intelligent, carring person. This little pigeon spend his last days being loved and cared for. You did the best you could.
I thank you for that.

Reti


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

xx_Care,

Thanks for trying to help. At least you now know some resources if this happens again. As I said before, I felt for you because you were in a tough position being a kid at the mercy of the adults in your life. We've seen this happen before, so don't think you are the only one. And don't think your parents are awful. Yes, I feel bad that they prevented you from receiving help from our members, but remember, they don't know us here at Pigeon Talk. They were just looking out for you and your safety.

Thanks again for trying to help and sorry the little guy didn't make it.

Linda


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Xx_care,

I am sad to hear you lost your littler one. As I said earlier, please do not be too hard on yourself. You took this poor injured bird in and provided it with warmth and comfort, I believe instinctively animals know when they are trying to be helped and I believe your little one knew this. As it has already been said, even if the bird was taken in immediately, there was no guarantee it would have survived, as it injuries where not new and severe. Your pigeon was not alone and importantly, was not scared when it passed. You should be proud that you stepped up and tried, unlike so many others who pass injured animals and take no notice of their hurt and pain.

I am sorry for the hurt you are feeling, but again as others have said you now have resources to draw on and a greater understanding on the importance of seeking help or treating injuries as early as possible to give those we try to help the best chance at surviving. When this is done we don't have to play the "what-if" game as we know we did all we could as soon as we could.

Please take care and don't change.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi xx care,


I am sorry things got messy there, and some of it was making it hard to retain focus. Please excuse me.

I am very sorry the Bird did not make it.

... and in all fairness, it is a gamble try and guess as to just what all he did have going on medically.

I have seen quite a few similar presentations, similar looking poops in injured, wounded or otherwise downed or emaciated teetering ferals brought to me, and, usually, when I treat initially for what I take to be the presense of Canker or Trichomoniasis, when I do see indicators of it, I buy enough time to then see about the rest of it...or, sometimes the-rest-of-it clears up obligeingly anyway with no other specific treatment.

When it does not clear up obligeingly anyway, or for prudence anyway, as soon as possbile, I would try to determine what else there is or what meds to try for treating the 'else''.


Sometimes I lose such Birds within minutes or hours of their being brought here, and never get to find out how the meds would have worked.


Hence, for purposes of clearity in retrospect, my initial admonishion, regardless of whether the possible/probable Trichomoniasis was the primary threat de-jur, and without any need to check his throat to see if yes or no there are observable lesions of yellow lumps in there, which would have really added nothing to the tableau or urgency anyway, but would have confirmed one form of Trichomoniasis at least if posiitive - it was my suggestion to treat the probable Trichomoniasis a.s.a.p., whether it is presumed to be the primary, or may be supposed to be a secondary or tertiary infection to some other single or several bacterial or other infections or systemic interrplay of problems.

This Bird certainly had multiple problems, multiple infection types, and no one could say with any certainty whether anyone could have pulled him through.

I just felt that I was offering the best and maybe only practical hope for their surviveing long enough, to then see about the probable other infections/illnesses being identified and treated appropriately.

I think you did very well, and I apologise for spending any time on what seemed to me to have been your indifference in not replying to or acknowledgeing the mentions I had sought to advise you in.

This was not an 'easy' Bird to save.

Anyway...

I thought you were not interested to try 'networking' locally by making calls to Vets and Feed Stores and so on to find possible meds and or to ask them questions allowing you to find people who as private persons, had Pigeons, who might alo have various meds.

This takes making calls and asking questions to find such people...and, most places will have such people if...'if' one can find them.

Anyway, I got the impression that because you were 'broke' that you were not willing to listen or try making those calls, because you could not get past the money thing...where, had you found some meds, and if the source needed money for them, I would have been happy to find some way to pay them somehow, and to do it fast.


Anyway...

I myself had imbescile tyrant parents, and they were also violent, and punishing, emotionally and physically, and I was delighted beyond measure when finally being rid of them.

They were a 'Bus' I got to this world in, and after that they were sundry inimicals and tyrant imbesciles...they contibuted absolutely nothing to my well being or my learning anything worth knowing or worth studying. They opposed anything I ever was interested in if it had any real merit or meaning to me..and, if it did have merit or meaning to me, they did all they could to ruin it. So...anything like that or less, I have some appreciations of.

Too bad, as so much beauty and joy, so much truely deep and profound meaningful experience with parents, could 'ideally' be possible...and should be the norm, and the happy healthy norm...

The reality for many people, most people probably, is seldom anywhere near the 'possibility'...

Anyway...

You did very well...

Forgive me my impatience there with some of it...or confusions as may be which I made worse.


Best wishes - !


P.S.

If you ever need some Pigeon meds, and if you find some place you can get them from, I would be glad to call that place and pay for them on my credit card if you are broke when needing them.

Maybe they could then be sent to some trusted friend of yours, who could deliver them to you, if your parents forbid your address being given to anyone for any reason.


So, it would remain for you to figure out some networking or deal-making or communication with others in your area, to deal with the logistics of getting the meds then from whoever has them, to your home.

Otherwise, also, consider to 'google' in advance, and also phone book looking in advance, to locate possible Pigeon Supply places, and or Pigeon Clubs memberships, by Calling Vets and so on and asking them or their receeeeeptionists, and or to ask various Vets and Farm Stores and so on if they know any 'Pigeon People' in your area, or any kind of Bird People who might know others who are Pigeon Peopple, and then make their acquaintance if possible. That way, if there is a next time, there will be more things in place.


Time for some sleep now I think...!


Regards,

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

I'm sorry the bird didn't make it, bless you for trying.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Dear xx_care, I am so sorry your little one didn't make it. Please do not blame yourself in any way for this. You did everything humanly possible, within your abilities/constraints to help this pigeon. My husband and I work only with rescues, trying to mend them or heal them as best we can. We have been doing this for over 12 years now and have suffered our share of losses. When we first started rescuing pigeons, our first one was a healthy, rambunctious baby that we were able to raise and release. The next 3 or 4 were all very, very, sick. We had no resources, no medicine, no knowledge and lost all of them. However, we are adults and have the ability to drive, and make contact with people but you are young and still must rely on your parents for help. We were able to finally contact the right people to help us and that makes a big difference.

Don't be too hard on your parents either. The internet is full of scary people and they are simply trying to protect you and I would be just as diligent as they are. You are more important to them than anything and you should be proud of that.

There is not a member on this forum who could possibly feel you let this bird down. 

So, just be proud that you did what you could. Check in with us from time to time.

Maggie


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Maggie,




Did you read my post above?


Or...?


Let me know please?


Thank you,


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hi Phil, every word of it.

Maggie


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Maggie, 

I mean, before, not after...your post just above...


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Phil, check your PM's.

Maggie


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Maggie, xx care, Cindy, all...



I was not seeking to other than settle previous confusions, in my intent of my above post.

I am very sorry if it can be read as to suggest that I am 'still' saying that 'xx care' could have done more.

My intention was to show how the communication at one point had not been working, and why I had felt it necessary to post a 'reminder' when I did, which others resented or took badly for reasons I can not fathom, and then it all got messy and I felt exhasperated.




I think xx care is a very intelligent, good and able person who did remarkably well under extremes of duress and logistical compromise and time constraints.

There was lots of information on many levels trying to get organized in a small space and a short time.

All of us who were trying to help them could have done "better"...

As it is, 'xx care' did better than 95 percent of the licenced Veterinarians out there would have done with this Bird, and gave much more of themselves to it as well.

I have nothing but admiration and respect and kind regard for them, and for how well they did on an at-best difficult and delicate and time-sensitive case.

Let alone that this is new to them...!


I apologise for anyone having found discomfort or confusions from anything I had written.

I am sorry I permitted distractions from the side-lines and posts I was editiing to become replied to prematurely which also confiused matters, especially when others did not kindly delete their replies to posts that had been changed within minutes of their initial appearance...and I regret that I let that messy interlude attract my attentions away from the positive and the constructive purely.


Thank you, 

And again, I apologise for any ambiguity in my above post...or any other post.

I hope matters are clear now...!


Best wishes...


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hi Phil

YOU ARE A GENTLEMAN AND A SCHOLAR AND I AM GLAD TO CALL YOU MY FRIEND.

PEACE,

Maggie


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Phil .. I think all is well .. I understood your post and appreciate your generous offer of assistance to members here who may need such help in times of emergency.

Terry


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

pdpbison said:


> Hi Maggie, xx care, Cindy, all...
> 
> I was not seeking to other than settle previous confusions, in my intent of my above post.
> 
> ...


Phil, 
I post what I feel is justified at the time. No more, no less.

The situation is over, let's get back to helping our fine feathered friends.  

Cindy

* * * *

Oops! I guess I'm the guilty party to the following:

Quote:
*"I am sorry I permitted distractions from the side-lines and posts I was editiing to become replied to prematurely which also confiused matters, especially when others did not kindly delete their replies to posts that had been changed within minutes of their initial appearance...and I regret that I let that messy interlude attract my attentions away from the positive and the constructive purely."*

I'm sorry If you feel I replied to your posts prematurely Phil. Quite honestly, I don't have time to sit at my computer to see if a post is going to be edited before I reply. I post & then I'm off to my next project. 
I also don't feel I should be *expected* to delete my reply to satisfy a post that has been edited.

I think everything is clear now.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Cindy,


Oh...Lol...


Well, this post was no exception...!

You are quoteing lines I had edited "out" within a few minutes ( 12 exactly, according to the difference between the initial time stamp and the edited time stamp)...minutes of my reviewing it.


Lol...


But anyway...

Best wishes...no matter...

We are most of us harried and short on time...I understand...!

Big Hug...

Love...


Phil
Las Vegas


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## Camrron (Dec 19, 2005)

Phil,

I think you are terrific,

You too Cindy. Time for an electronic computer hug and a makeup.

You are both good people.

Cameron.


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## Feather (Dec 8, 2005)

Many banded racing pigeons stop by our yard for a drink and a bite to eat. One stayed four days to rest up. Then they are on their way. You found a beautiful bird. If he stays, it was meant to be. It is up to them you know!

Best Wishes,
Feather


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