# Word of Warning



## kamz (Jan 23, 2010)

Hi, 

I am still a very new member here, however i thought it was important that I put this link up - so that people looking to find homes for their pigeons were aware of the nasty fates that may await them if given to the wrong person. I stumbled across this forum when I was trying to find out information about trimming pidgees wings (i know it is not recommended but given my partners ability to close doors... mmm) anyway, check it out! 


http://www.duckhuntingchat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=108319

One quote from a guy training his dog using a pigeon whose wings are clipped 

'FastPine wrote: Should I feel bad that the pigeon is getting roughed up pretty bad?

Response: When you go fishing, do you feel sorry for the bait?
If he is dropping the bird and pulling feathers off, or trying to kill the bird by crushing it, take it away, but don't use any pressure

Ensure that you know who you are giving a bird to - for all you know it could be a guy like the one in the link! 

Susie


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Good Lord! What a terrible web site. Now that's just cruel. They don't care anything about the poor birds. Imagine how hurt and scared the poor things must be. These idiots that sell pigeons this way don't care who they sell them to, or for what purpose they are being bought. It's sad, and disgusting.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Thank you for letting us know.


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2010)

That is a very good warning and one that applies to *any type of animal* one may look to rehome. Here are some tips for finding a good home from the HSUS: Finding A Responsible Home For Your Pet

Remember that there are people out there who can be very convincing, even using children to put you at ease. These people can be experts at obtaining animals for their cruel use. 

As for using birds as bait, dog fighters use dogs/cats/rabbits as bait. It's no different as far as I'm concerned and it should be just as illegal. It's appalling how heartless some people are.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Thank you for sharing.


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

That is horrible  Poor pigeons!


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## Mindy (Apr 2, 2009)

I signed up and I'm going to post on there telling them that it is awful. Sure they may not care but maybe they will think about it a second more and read how awful it is. The way they talk about it in there forum its like they are talking about coffee. And its no big deal. It is a big DEAL. It was AWFUL. I just can't do anything. AWFUL.


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## Elizabethy (Sep 25, 2007)

Good for you, Mindy (and for us and the birds). It's not easy to cross the line from comfortable to alien territory but that is where we need to go to help others understand what we already know.

I admire your courage and appreciate your generosity.


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## Elizabethy (Sep 25, 2007)

P.S. and hell yes I feel sorry for the bait (and the fish). I can't fish anymore.


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## Guest (Jan 29, 2010)

its seems the life of the pigeon never gets any easier


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## kamz (Jan 23, 2010)

guys im glad everyone is as horrified and disgusted at both the behaviour, attitudes, and actions of these individuals. Im going to be very careful if I ever decide to adopt a pigeon out. (im thinking about fostering a pigeon) 


Mindy, good job getting on the forum - later on today im going to get on there and back you up


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Let us know what/where you post so we can see (and maybe add our own thoughts) too


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## Crab_Shrapnel (Jan 17, 2010)

It makes me wana cry, how could people mistreat pigeons like this


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## kamz (Jan 23, 2010)

mindy let us know what thread you have posted under and ill provide you with some back up


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

I just "skimmed" thru that thread - DISGUSTING!!!!! 
The things that those hunters are doing to those poor birds IS abuse!
Makes me want to wrap THEIR HEADS WITH VET WRAP!


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## valeri (Sep 6, 2009)

I hate to add that in my experience, sadly, this attitude is quite common. And yes, an excellent and necessary reminder for anyone rehoming animals. I volunteer with wildlife and have also spent a lot of time trying to talk sense into hunters who use live birds or other animals in training. Most often, it's the proverbial brick wall. There's an emotional disconnect I simply can't fathom. And the liberal interpretation of "ethics" I've encountered across the board among hunters has brought me to tears and anger many times. It's only through message boards like this that the general public get some insight into some of the previously hidden aspects of these sports and live-bird training. Once they get through pigeons, if you read the injured-but-not-retrieved statistics on the poor ducks . . . another matter entirely.


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## pouletchalet (Jan 8, 2009)

Thank you for posting this warning. Just makes me sick. I would advise everyone not to go on that site and "flame" them. It will only make them angry and want to torture more birds. I would instead go to places such as your local animal control and complain. I would also contact the Humane Society of America, www.humanesociety.org, and let them know what is going on here, as well as any other organization you can think of. There are many resources out there and the more people that speak up the better. Go on craigslist and post regular warnings. Get creative! Keep looking for uglyness like this and expose it to the public so they can see. The general public outcry can be a very powerful political force.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

pouletchalet said:


> Thank you for posting this warning. Just makes me sick. I would advise everyone not to go on that site and "flame" them. It will only make them angry and want to torture more birds. I would instead go to places such as your local animal control and complain. I would also contact the Humane Society of America, www.humanesociety.org, and let them know what is going on here, as well as any other organization you can think of. There are many resources out there and the more people that speak up the better. Go on craigslist and post regular warnings. Get creative! Keep looking for uglyness like this and expose it to the public so they can see. The general public outcry can be a very powerful political force.


This is good advice.


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## kamz (Jan 23, 2010)

point taken : ) there are some better avenues to go through


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## feathers111 (Jun 30, 2009)

kamz said:


> point taken : ) there are some better avenues to go through


Kamz--
Thank you for posting this information. As others have pointed out, this is indeed a common practice in hunt tests. The following is from Michael Markarian's essay, "You Can Teach a Dog Cruel Tricks":

_A group of friends interested in training their golden retrievers attended a "hunt test" in Houston, and were appalled by what they witnessed. Hundreds of live birds (mainly pigeons and ducks) were shackled, their wings broken to prevent them from flying. "Bird boys" used slingshots to propel the birds 30 to 50 feet in the air; upon landing, each bird was located and retrieved by a canine contestant. Dead birds were replaced with live ones, but surviving birds were used repeatedly--sometimes for hours--until they died. 

Typical hunt tests, such as those sanctioned by the American Kennel Club (AKC), may use live birds in some shooting and hunting simulations, but they do not use live birds in retrieval exercises like those described above. At hunt tests sanctioned by the younger and smaller United Kennel Club (UKC), however, such scenes are not uncommon. This little-known practice has received virtually no attention from the humane community._

Part of the problem is that this sort of abuse is not illegal. "Most states," Markarian notes, "specifically exempt hunting activities and related training from their animal cruelty or wildlife statutes." Likewise, according to the US Animal Welfare Act, birds (including pigeons) are excluded from whatever minimal guarantee (at least in theory) of humane slaughter in the meat industry. Where I live, pigeons and other birds are inhumanely sacrificed in voodoo ceremonies. Voodoo is a religion, and religious/ritual slaughters are exempt from the Animal Welfare Act; likewise, halal and kosher slaughter of animals. 
If enough people cared *and* acted on it, the laws would change. But until then, birds will be outside the legal purview for hunters and the agricultural industry to do as they please. For those who are disturbed by these practices, I'd echo the earlier advice regarding contacting the HSUS; I'd also contact the American Kennel Club and other kennel societies, asking them to make a public statement against practicing and endorsing these cruel hunt tests.


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