# Mailed eggs



## Guest (Mar 18, 2011)

I am wondering if anyone here got experiance with getting eggs mailed to you for hatching?
I have ordered dove eggs from a guy that will come next week but dove eggs are fragile as i know so how did it work out for you other ppl that have bought eggs this way? Was the hatch rate still ok?
It will probably only take 1-2 days for it to arrive here after they get sent and i know eggs need to rest 1 day after that before i can start incubate them. 
If they don´t break on the way that is... Hope he´s good at packing them.


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## abluechipstock (Nov 26, 2010)

sounds fishy to me, are you going to handfeed them, they aren't like chickens


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## GEMcC5150 (Oct 24, 2010)

Why would you want to hand feed when the parents do such a better job. The only reason I can see for taking it on would be you lost both parents and could not foster the little one out. But to bring in egg by mail it just seems nuttey to me.


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## Guest (Mar 19, 2011)

No it´s not for handfeeding. I got mixbreed doves that will be fosters. Once the eggs arrive i will put the nesting matrials and nests to the doves i got cuz they want to start breeding already and i have removed their own eggs they laid so far.
So the question is how well do the eggs do in mailing?


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## abluechipstock (Nov 26, 2010)

shipping does bring the hatch percentage down, but dove eggs are a lot more fragile


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## Guest (Mar 19, 2011)

So did anyone get eggs via mail to hatch? I am worried about that the shells will break on the way and that´s why i wont put in nests and twigs before i get the eggs so i can see they are atleast ok on the outside. And hopefully the inside will be ok aswell.
Guess i'll just wait and see how it goes.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Frieza said:


> So did anyone get eggs via mail to hatch? I am worried about that the shells will break on the way and that´s why i wont put in nests and twigs before i get the eggs so i can see they are atleast ok on the outside. And hopefully the inside will be ok aswell.
> Guess i'll just wait and see how it goes.


there are many problems here.. first your fosters have to of just laid their eggs to be on the same time line as these eggs..so if you got that then great.. now the eggs are fragile but if packed right can make it without problems of breaking.. the problem is the xray machine that they put some packages through.. it could have effect on the eggs also the jostling around can have an affect... I sent two sets of frillback eggs in the mail to someone just to try to see if it would work and both times they did not hatch.. but never say never.. if the eggs get there in one piece and you have foster birds that just layed eggs within 5 days of getting the eggs.. then put them under them and if they hatch you have to let us know!..


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## Guest (Mar 19, 2011)

Alright. I don´t think they use xray machines to check into packages here.
I figured it would be better if the eggs hatch 'too early' than 'too late' at the foster parents. Like if i get the eggs at wednesday i can start incubate them in my incubator while waiting for the doves i got to lay eggs of their own.
I think it works better that way rather than to let them sit on eggs now and then switch them for the new ones once they arrive cuz then the doves might abandon the eggs when they don´t hatch 'on time'.
Letting them be in an incubator some days will also be easier to check if the eggs starts develop or if the eggs have died.

Did he check if the eggs started develop or if they just stayed clear? And how long did it take for the eggs to arrive after they got sent?


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## GEMcC5150 (Oct 24, 2010)

I'm still lost here. If you doves are laying egg why do you want to change them out with ones you will be getting in the mail?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Frieza said:


> Alright. I don´t think they use xray machines to check into packages here.
> I figured it would be better if the eggs hatch 'too early' than 'too late' at the foster parents. Like if i get the eggs at wednesday i can start incubate them in my incubator while waiting for the doves i got to lay eggs of their own.
> I think it works better that way rather than to let them sit on eggs now and then switch them for the new ones once they arrive cuz then the doves might abandon the eggs when they don´t hatch 'on time'.
> Letting them be in an incubator some days will also be easier to check if the eggs starts develop or if the eggs have died.
> ...


I sent them next day..so when the second egg was laid, I sent them the next day..so the eggs were prolly about 5 days old and unincubated... not sure if he candled them or not... they just did not hatch..that is a good question.... the thing is with what your talking about is if the eggs are developing in the incubator then the foster pair will need to lay within 5 days of these eggs being incubated.. so the crop milk will be in at the right time of hatching.. if the eggs are developing too far along and they hatch then they may not have their crop milk in yet to feed them... if you hold unincubated eggs they can be kept in a cool place with the smaller end down and turned a few time a day.. for a week and then after that viability goes down... you could do that and when the pair lay their eggs they would be on the same timeline as the eggs being held and they would start the incubtion and development themsleves.


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## Guest (Mar 19, 2011)

The reason is that i got tricked when i was buying doves and instead of the race i wanted i got 8 mixbreeds and only 1 of the race i wanted. It was my brother that went to get them and he don´t know anything about doves and couldn´t tell they weren´t right race.
Been searching for months and no one sells the race i want around where i live and also no one wants the mixbreeds from me. So a guy gave me the tip to order eggs from the race i want and let the mixbreeds foster them. 
Worth the chance i though so i went for it. Not sure how many eggs i will get cuz the seller got 2 atm and will send on monday so hopefully he gets more. Best is if he gets 4-6 eggs before monday cuz i want to pay for 8 eggs (2 packages).

My doves lay eggs all the time atm and i got a hard time stopping them to make them hold on until the ordered eggs arrive. Found 2 eggs today that i removed and the pair is already searching for a new spot to lay eggs.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

GEMcC5150 said:


> I'm still lost here. If you doves are laying egg why do you want to change them out with ones you will be getting in the mail?


I think she wants to have certain color of dove as hers are mixed colors..


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## Guest (Mar 19, 2011)

Yes that´s about half right. They aren´t mixed colours, they are mixbreeds.
The doves i want are fantail ones and the ones i got now are 8 grey mixbreeds (fantail*homing pigeon) or something like that. And 1 fantail.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Frieza said:


> Yes that´s about half right. They aren´t mixed colours, they are mixbreeds.
> The doves i want are fantail ones and the ones i got now are 8 grey mixbreeds (fantail*homing pigeon) or something like that. And 1 fantail.


oh I see.. I thought you were talking about ring neck doves.. so these are pigeons.. this is a fun way to get the breeds you want.. that is why I sent the frillback eggs because frilbacks can be expensive..so I just sent him the eggs for free to see what would happen.. but I ended up selling him two nest mates from my pair...it proved easier in the long run.. I have American fantails too they are black saddles..very nice birds.. I will have one baby to sell soon if interested... I will also have two frillback young when they are weaned..not sure how much Im going to ask for them yet..


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

oh... I have given someone eggs here local we traded eggs and they did not have to go thur the mail.. hers hatched one egg and mine were fairy swallow eggs... but those did not hatch..but it is because the pair have alot of feathers and the male is just not fertilizing the eggs.. we ended up just trading a pair of frillbacks for her fairy swallow pair....lol..


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## Guest (Mar 19, 2011)

Yes i would be interested in buying it but problem is i live in sweden. So it wouldn´t be possible. There are ppl selling over here too but they are very far away from where i live.
Pic of the mixbreeds:


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

oh.. those are pretty anyway!!!... but the egg thing is worth a try.. but I would hold the eggs insituation without incubation and then put them under the foster pair..so the timeline is right for the crop milk.. as said if the eggs a developing too far along the milk may not be in for them to feed the hatchlings..


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## Guest (Mar 19, 2011)

Well they will start about the same time when the eggs arrive. Shouldn´t be more than 5 days difference. Or should i put in the nests and twigs on monday? Eggs will arrive on tuesday or wednesday. Maybe thursday if unlucky.
When do they start produce the crop milk?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Frieza said:


> Well they will start about the same time when the eggs arrive. Shouldn´t be more than 5 days difference. Or should i put in the nests and twigs on monday? Eggs will arrive on tuesday or wednesday. Maybe thursday if unlucky.
> When do they start produce the crop milk?


if they are about to lay..then that is good.. so really the eggs you get can be held for up to a week in a cool place with the small end down and turned a few times a day.. then when your pair lays the second egg just swap the eggs.. ... the crop milk comes in a few days before hatching...like day 16.. I think incubating them and starting development before they even lay may make them too far along... best to swap eggs that are on the same time line.. even though your mailed eggs are older ..they are the same as just laid eggs because they have not develped yet...development starts with heat..or incubation..


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## Guest (Mar 19, 2011)

I know developing doesn´t start before they get incubated. The doves doesn´t really care that they don´t have nests or nesting matrials atm. They still lay eggs in a corner or such. I'll give them the nests and matrials on monday then and hope they lay their 2nd egg the day after the ordered eggs arrive.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Frieza said:


> I know developing doesn´t start before they get incubated. The doves doesn´t really care that they don´t have nests or nesting matrials atm. They still lay eggs in a corner or such. I'll give them the nests and matrials on monday then and hope they lay their 2nd egg the day after the ordered eggs arrive.


I would give them their nesting materials now..usually eggs are laid about 10 days after they mate.. when did the foster pair lay last?.. they could be ready to lay now or it may be a few weeks from now..


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## Guest (Mar 19, 2011)

I got 3 pairs and 1 unsure pair. I removed 2 eggs today from 1 pair. All 3 pairs seem to be mating and searching nesting spots even when they don´t got nests and matrials at all. But removing nests and matrials is just a way to try make them hold on for a bit. 
All 3 pairs are ready to lay and this week i removed 9 eggs.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Frieza said:


> I got 3 pairs and 1 unsure pair. I removed 2 eggs today from 1 pair. All 3 pairs seem to be mating and searching nesting spots even when they don´t got nests and matrials at all. But removing nests and matrials is just a way to try make them hold on for a bit.
> All 3 pairs are ready to lay and this week i removed 9 eggs.


that sounds good, it should take them no time to get going then.. if they do lay you still have 5 day window...you can put your mailed eggs under them even if they have been sitting for up to 5 days.. please keep us posted on fertility would like to know how it all turns out.


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## Guest (Mar 19, 2011)

Alright. Yes i'll keep the thread updated. The guy still only got 2 eggs atm but really hope his doves lay more. But i'll still buy 8 eggs i guess. Could be a problem if he only can send 2 now and have to collect 6 to send in next box. It´s all about luck.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Frieza said:


> Alright. Yes i'll keep the thread updated. The guy still only got 2 eggs atm but really hope his doves lay more. But i'll still buy 8 eggs i guess. Could be a problem if he only can send 2 now and have to collect 6 to send in next box. It´s all about luck.


yes luck and timing.. I was able to swap eggs because we took away eggs at the same time so our birds would lay again about the same time.. maybe you can work something out with your egg person like that...


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## Guest (Mar 19, 2011)

I think it will work out well no matter when the eggs come. So 1 package get sent on monday and the next one on next monday i guess(if he gets more eggs until then).


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Frieza said:


> I think it will work out well no matter when the eggs come. So 1 package get sent on monday and the next one on next monday i guess(if he gets more eggs until then).


yes if they lay like clock work.. most don't esp when you want them too.. the fresher the better.. so that is why I mentioned the timing thing.. he takes eggs away from his pairs and you do the same on the same day..so when they lay again they will be close to the same day.. fertility goes down after about a week of holding them...


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## Guest (Mar 19, 2011)

Well they lay pretty random but the timing should be ok anyways. I'll just see how it goes


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Frieza said:


> Well they lay pretty random but the timing should be ok anyways. I'll just see how it goes


for future eggs if this time it does not work.. you can keep trying and then you can plan it like that for better results perhaps.. but hope all goes well..can't wait to here back..


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## Guest (Mar 20, 2011)

The seller got 3 more eggs today so now there´s 5 in total. Will see if there will come more cuz he will pack them later today.
But after today he wont sell more eggs.


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## FrillbackLover (Mar 18, 2011)

hey spirit, what kind of frillbacks do you have???


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## chayi (May 1, 2010)

My father in law orderd many eggs through the mail and he had a very good success rate even birds came through mail order some didnt make it but most the time they were fine.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

chayi said:


> My father in law orderd many eggs through the mail and he had a very good success rate even birds came through mail order some didnt make it but most the time they were fine.


chicken's eggs are sold all the time.. hatch rate goes down if mailed but they do hatch.. those eggs are alot hardier than pigeon's eggs.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

FrillbackLover said:


> hey spirit, what kind of frillbacks do you have???


I have white creasted...


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## Guest (Mar 20, 2011)

The 5 eggs are now packed and will get sent tomorrow. Hope they wont break and if lucky they will arrive on tuesday.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Frieza said:


> The 5 eggs are now packed and will get sent tomorrow. Hope they wont break and if lucky they will arrive on tuesday.


that is great... you need two pair to lay their eggs by next tuesday at the latest.. but I would try over a week old eggs anyway just to see.


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## Guest (Mar 20, 2011)

I am giving them the nests and matrials tomorrow. Found 1 egg out today but it was broken so they are still laying. As soon as they get the nests and twigs they will all lay eggs fast i am sure.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Frieza said:


> I am giving them the nests and matrials tomorrow. Found 1 egg out today but it was broken so they are still laying. As soon as they get the nests and twigs they will all lay eggs fast i am sure.


I think so since you took their eggs last week they should be ready soon... you may want to know who layed the broken egg..she should lay another and that pair would be ready for two of your mailed eggs when they arrive.. which would be good to get them under them as soon as possible.


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## Guest (Mar 20, 2011)

Ya i'll see when they lay eggs. Tomorrow they will start build nests.


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## Guest (Mar 22, 2011)

I got the package today and he had packed them the way i asked. So all 5 made it here intact^^
Yesterday morning i put in the nests and nesting matrials to the pigeons and 1 pair have started build so far. The other ones are still trying to decide wich nest they want but will start build anytime.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Frieza said:


> I got the package today and he had packed them the way i asked. So all 5 made it here intact^^
> Yesterday morning i put in the nests and nesting matrials to the pigeons and 1 pair have started build so far. The other ones are still trying to decide wich nest they want but will start build anytime.


hope they get started..I would of gave them the materials sooner. you have 5 days for 3 pairs to lay eggs.... after 5 days viability of the eggs goes down. hope they do not waste time.. good luck!


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## Guest (Mar 22, 2011)

Ya but i'll start incubate them tomorrow. The pairs are ongoing and can lay egg anyday now so should work out fine. It seems to be 4 pairs but not sure about the 4th cuz they haven´t had eggs yet.
Atm the eggs are resting with the pointy end down in a cool place and will be keept still for 24 hours.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Frieza said:


> Ya but i'll start incubate them tomorrow. The pairs are ongoing and can lay egg anyday now so should work out fine. It seems to be 4 pairs but not sure about the 4th cuz they haven´t had eggs yet.
> Atm the eggs are resting with the pointy end down in a cool place and will be keept still for 24 hours.


you would be better off to hold the eggs.. I just do not know why you think you have to incubate them.. what if some of them take a week to lay, you will have week old embryos.. that would be a week ahead of the parent birds. and hatch before the crop milk comes in... you can't turn it off once it starts.. if you hold the eggs you swap eggs for eggs at the same point of deveopment which is 0... if you do incubate the eggs your birds will still have to lay with in 5 days max to do the swap.. holding unincubated eggs keeps them suspended untill a pair is ready.. and then they are on the same time line..


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## Guest (Mar 22, 2011)

Well i just think my way is better. Pigeon eggs don´t last too long without being incubates so the sooner they get started the better. When my pairs will lay eggs i can´t know but it can be anyday now cuz they are 4 pairs and they are checking out the nests. 
It´s a better chance to let the eggs incubate as soon as possible and hope the fosters got crop milk by the time they hatch than to let the eggs wait and lose some of their chance to hatch by each day that goes by.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Then you need to buy hand feeding formula and learn how to hand feed a squab.. before the day of any hatching.. just in case your pairs lay too late for the already growing embryos.. not at the last moment... If your pairs lay you can only use the incubated eggs with in 5 days of you starting them.. if you hold them you can try them under the pairs even at two weeks if you want.. viablity does go down after about a week each day but it is still a good chance it will develope if fertile.. you have a bigger window holding them... but you seem to be pretty set on your way even though.. but to each their own...


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## Guest (Mar 22, 2011)

Yes. And the pigeons will lay eggs anytime now so they probably will lay eggs before 5 days of the incubation. Fully possible there will be an egg tomorrow in some nest. 2 of the females are already spending most time in their choosen nest.
2 of the eggs are 1 week old and 3 are only 2 days. But they are mixed with each other so no idea wich two are the 1 week old ones.
I'll just stick with my plan. It´s fully possible the eggs are dead/infertile too.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Frieza said:


> Yes. And the pigeons will lay eggs anytime now so they probably will lay eggs before 5 days of the incubation. Fully possible there will be an egg tomorrow in some nest. 2 of the females are already spending most time in their choosen nest.
> 2 of the eggs are 1 week old and 3 are only 2 days. But they are mixed with each other so no idea wich two are the 1 week old ones.
> I'll just stick with my plan. It´s fully possible the eggs are dead/infertile too.


they lay the second egg 48 hours after the first egg ,so that is two days after you even get one egg... and you do not have a first egg yet... if some of the eggs are fertile and your putting heat on them, I would start reading up on hand feeding..


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## Guest (Mar 22, 2011)

My pigeons have always laid the 2nd egg the day after the first. Not 2 days later.
I'll just see how it goes. I don´t think the pigeons will have trouble to feed the baby even if it hatch some days earlier.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Frieza said:


> My pigeons have always laid the 2nd egg the day after the first. Not 2 days later.
> I'll just see how it goes. I don´t think the pigeons will have trouble to feed the baby even if it hatch some days earlier.


not sure why your so resistant... if you want to possible save a baby..then read up on it..that is all the advise Im trying to give you , . it is fact they lay around 42 to 48 hours from the first egg.. I just did not make it up and perhaps your having a memory lapse... Hens can only produce one egg at a time, it takes about two days for the second egg to develope in the ovaries after the first is laid and has cleared the oviduct... the second egg us usually laid in an afternoon around 2 to 4 pm..sometimes later.. not the next day.. . not that this really even matters, as you just want it to work the way you think it does..


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## Guest (Mar 22, 2011)

I want to do it my way simply cuz i think it´s better. It´s 100% sure that the hatch rate goes down each day the egg isn´t getting incubated but the risk of that none of the parent pigeons are able to produce the crop milk shouldn´t be that high. If 1 pair isn´t able to feed the baby i could try move it to a pair that does.
Handfeeding pigeons is a very bad idea cuz there´s no replacement for the crop milk doves produce. Feeding them with the baby food made for other birds doesn´t work well and the pigeon mostly suffer from weak bones and have to get put down.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Frieza said:


> I want to do it my way simply cuz i think it´s better. It´s 100% sure that the hatch rate goes down each day the egg isn´t getting incubated but the risk of that none of the parent pigeons are able to produce the crop milk shouldn´t be that high. If 1 pair isn´t able to feed the baby i could try move it to a pair that does.
> Handfeeding pigeons is a very bad idea cuz there´s no replacement for the crop milk doves produce. Feeding them with the baby food made for other birds doesn´t work well and the pigeon mostly suffer from weak bones and have to get put down.


the crop milk only is fed the first few days after hatching..after that they start adding small seeds to it... you just can not put a baby under any pair and expect them to feed it...unless they are on the same time line.... if the birds are not on the same time line you may HAVE to hand feed if there is nothing else to do!.. that is all Im saying..rather than they starve to death hand rearing formula is all they will have.. you just need to be prepaird because your determined to incubate these eggs... not sure what you don't understand about that... Im just giving you a heads up... get prepaird.. unless you are just going to let them die..then guess there is no getting prepaird... good luck, hope it all works out just as you want it too.


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## Guest (Mar 22, 2011)

Well do you got any experiance yourself with having babies that hatch too early or you have only replaced egg same day as the parents start sitting on them?
Ofc since the eggs start incubate on same day they will also hatch about same day and all fosters will be on the same level.
You say they start produce the milk few days before hatch so what´s the problem with that the baby hatch a few days earlier?
There´s also no information about how long it takes for a pigeon to produce the milk. It´s fully possible that once the baby hatch the parents will start make milk if they don´t got any yet.
Since there´s no replacement for crop milk i rather let the babies die than to try handfeed them since i know handfeeding wont give them enough for their start of life and they got a high risk to get weak bones.
I didn´t came here to argue so i will simply leave this forum.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Frieza said:


> Well do you got any experiance yourself with having babies that hatch too early or you have only replaced egg same day as the parents start sitting on them?
> Ofc since the eggs start incubate on same day they will also hatch about same day and all fosters will be on the same level.
> You say they start produce the milk few days before hatch so what´s the problem with that the baby hatch a few days earlier?
> There´s also no information about how long it takes for a pigeon to produce the milk. It´s fully possible that once the baby hatch the parents will start make milk if they don´t got any yet.
> ...


no many times people have and do and can hand raise a baby if the parent bird is not feeding for whatever reason.. it is done a lot.. a few days is fine... like I said before.. If you put these eggs in the incubator and they start developing they are on their way... now you have fosters.. great!... but if they take their time laying.. and you have the eggs in the incubator and the pairs take longer than 5 days to lay the second egg.. then there may not be crop milk when they hatch.. which really does not matter anymore as you said you will just let them perish... so lets just go back to the oringinal question... yes ..eggs sent in the mail can hatch if fertile... I give up... but really Im pulling for ya for you to get the babies you want and hope they thrive.


And yes I foster eggs alot around here... I follow what mother nature dictates and it has worked thus far..


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## Microcat (Nov 22, 2010)

Frieza said:


> Since there´s no replacement for crop milk i rather let the babies die than to try handfeed them since i know handfeeding wont give them enough for their start of life and they got a high risk to get weak bones.


Wow, talk about cold and heartless. People like you shouldn't even HAVE pigeons/doves (ANY birds) in my opinion if that is your reasoning. Good lord. 

You have been given some excellent information by someone who is looking out more for your future squabs than you are. You should take some of that information and use it. Otherwise you are just going to be killing some squabs with your ignorance and refusal to accept information from someone with more knowledge than yourself. *shaking my head*


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## Guest (Mar 28, 2011)

Well i am back to update my thread. If you decide to chase me away again it´s up to you guys. This is it so far:
23th: Put 2 eggs in the incubator
25th: 1 pair laid an egg and started sitt on it. (didn´t lay a 2nd one).
Also added the other 3 eggs to the incubator at this day.
27th: Another pair laid an egg and have started sitt on it but not as much as the first pair so they might lay a 2nd one before they decide to start incubate.
28th: Candled the eggs and 1 of the ones added on the 23th is alive and growing. Other 3 eggs are too early to tell but atleast one of them had blood in it but it pretty much looked like it was forming a blood ring . 
I'll candle them again in 3-5 days.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Frieza said:


> Well i am back to update my thread. If you decide to chase me away again it´s up to you guys. This is it so far:
> 23th: Put 2 eggs in the incubator
> 25th: 1 pair laid an egg and started sitt on it. (didn´t lay a 2nd one).
> Also added the other 3 eggs to the incubator at this day.
> ...


well I hope I did not chase you away!..lol..
'
Iam glad your birds are laying at the right time for you!.. good luck and have fun.


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## Microcat (Nov 22, 2010)

Someone giving you unlimited good information is called chasing you away?

I'll be interested to hear how this works out.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Frieza said:


> I didn´t came here to argue so i will simply leave this forum.


No one chased you away, you were the one that decided you didnt want to take advice from some well knowledged people, and go your own way.

I do hope things work out for you, but I will quote another part of that post....



Frieza said:


> ..... i rather let the babies die than to try handfeed them since i know handfeeding wont give them enough for their start of life and they got a high risk to get weak bones..


This to me sounds totally irresponsible & selfish. 
You are the one that has chosen to breed these birds (as such).
If you are prepared to go to the trouble of recieving eggs, incubating, swapping eggs & hoping the birds will sit & foster the young, you should also be prepared to handfeed them if they are rejected or start to hatch too early.
Youngsters that are human reared & fed and weaned properly have every bit of a good chance of survival as any other. 
It does take a lot of time and patience, but from what I have read, it seems you just want the easiest way to get the birds you want.
If you sit down and think about it, I'm sure you would actually get more pleasure and enjoyment from your birds knowing that you were able to step in and help them survive.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Quazar said:


> No one chased you away, you were the one that decided you didnt want to take advice from some well knowledged people, and go your own way.
> 
> I do hope things work out for you, but I will quote another part of that post....
> 
> ...




Very well said.


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## Microcat (Nov 22, 2010)

^^ Agreed with the above.


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## Guest (Mar 29, 2011)

Well eveyone doesn´t got the possibilies to handfeed. That would mean i have to take the baby with me to school everyday. 
That the babies hatch 2 days earlier than the pair's own eggs shouldn´t be any problem at all. 
But 2 of the pairs have never had babies. They are the 2 that have yet not started.
Pair 2 is on 2 eggs now.
That babies die is not unnatural.


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## mandylou (Oct 31, 2010)

Yes babies do die but often of natural causes.. changing their eggs and then refusing to feed them when the parents are unable to isn't "natural", of course they will die.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Frieza said:


> Well eveyone doesn´t got the possibilies to handfeed. That would mean i have to take the baby with me to school everyday.
> That the babies hatch 2 days earlier than the pair's own eggs shouldn´t be any problem at all.
> But 2 of the pairs have never had babies. They are the 2 that have yet not started.
> Pair 2 is on 2 eggs now.
> That babies die is not unnatural.


If you hatch them, then you are taking on the responsibility to do what you have to. If you aren't prepared to do that, or if you can't, then you shouldn't bring them into the world. It is a life, and it just isn't fair to them. To be so uncaring about their living or dying is just wrong.


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## Guest (Apr 2, 2011)

Pair 1 laid another egg and 2 of the 5 eggs i bought are alive and growing.
I am not sure who i will let foster the eggs yet.
Pair 1 are good cuz they sit tight on the eggs and have had babies before.
Pair 2 i don´t know about, they never had a baby before and they leave the nest when i get too close to the cage but they go back into it when i leave. They are both only 1 year old and siblings.
I would prefer to give both the eggs to pair 1 but the eggs will hatch 2 days apart. But since some pigeons do start incubate as soon as the first egg is laid babies hatching with 2 days difference should be pretty normal?
Giving the eggs to pair 1 wich are skilled parents should be best if the age difference betwen the babies isn´t a problem.
That would also save the 3 other pairs for later if i find more eggs to buy.


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## Atchafalaya Lofts (Apr 2, 2011)

Hopefully you DON'T find more eggs to buy. I'm amazed at how callous you are in this thread.


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## Guest (Apr 2, 2011)

And exactly why would i be callous? I am just against taking the babies away to handfeed them. I am also against checking in the nest all the time since it will stress the birds alot. I check once a day max or simply study the nest to see if the parents feed the babies.
Everything goes as planed so i don´t see why everyone here complains so much.
The eggs and the pairs are less than a 5 day difference as they were supposed to be.
You do it your way and i do it mine.

Btw i could simply stop update this thread if it only makes you guys upset. Just tell me so and i'll be out. I am not here just to mess with you people but since no one here seem to like this thread it might be better if it just get deleted alltogether.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Frieza said:


> And exactly why would i be callous? I am just against taking the babies away to handfeed them. I am also against checking in the nest all the time since it will stress the birds alot. I check once a day max or simply study the nest to see if the parents feed the babies.
> Everything goes as planed so i don´t see why everyone here complains so much.
> The eggs and the pairs are less than a 5 day difference as they were supposed to be.
> You do it your way and i do it mine.
> ...


well because people usually want to nurture orphans..and take care of them so they can live.. it is unusual not to feel that way..so they just do not identify with your position.. but it sounds like you won't even have to worry about it ..which is good.. you won't have to watch them starve and die a slow death and then throw them out like the garbage..


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## Guest (Apr 2, 2011)

Well i know people are all different. I am just not the kind of person that would check the nest all day to make sure the babies are getting feed. Stressing the birds just makes the risk of them stop feeding higher. And since pigeons stay in the nest for days after the hatch it´s hard to get to see the babies without having to move the adult sitting on them.
I would only handfeed if it was clear that it didn´t get feed by any adults (adults dead, totaly ignoring the baby, adults went missing etc).
But as long as it is in the nest with the adults sitting on it it´s just best to leave it be and try study from a distance.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Frieza said:


> Well i know people are all different. I am just not the kind of person that would check the nest all day to make sure the babies are getting feed. Stressing the birds just makes the risk of them stop feeding higher. And since pigeons stay in the nest for days after the hatch it´s hard to get to see the babies without having to move the adult sitting on them.
> I would only handfeed if it was clear that it didn´t get feed by any adults (adults dead, totaly ignoring the baby, adults went missing etc).
> But as long as it is in the nest with the adults sitting on it it´s just best to leave it be and try study from a distance.


well that is a different story you tell now,, glad to here you would come to their aid... but to tell you, I check on my babies and they(parents) do not have a problem with it other than a wing slap and a growl.. most pigeons keepers do that..it is a normal thing to do... it only takes a sec to look.. no one was saying hold and play with them for time on end.. they are domestic birds not like wild birds that may get out of sorts if you go looking in the nest.


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## Guest (Apr 2, 2011)

Well the other pigeons mostly do stay in their nests and i have to push them aside to get to check into the nest. But pair 2 flee directly if i even open the door or the feeding box. Or if something scares the other birds like if the cat walks by or someone walks around close to the cage. 
They also leave the nest to go eat but they always go back to the nest in a couple of minutes.
What would you say would be best to do? Give both eggs to the experianced pair 1 even with the 2 days difference betwen the eggs or give both pairs 1 egg each? 
Pair 2 doesn´t feel right cuz of their behaviour and lack of experiance. I think they might be too young to be able to take care of a baby proberly atm.
Since a pigeon lays the 2nd egg 2 days after the first babies with a 2 day difference should be very normal since some pigeons start incubate once the first is laid right?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Frieza said:


> Well the other pigeons mostly do stay in their nests and i have to push them aside to get to check into the nest. But pair 2 flee directly if i even open the door or the feeding box. Or if something scares the other birds like if the cat walks by or someone walks around close to the cage.
> They also leave the nest to go eat but they always go back to the nest in a couple of minutes.
> What would you say would be best to do? Give both eggs to the experianced pair 1 even with the 2 days difference betwen the eggs or give both pairs 1 egg each?
> Pair 2 doesn´t feel right cuz of their behaviour and lack of experiance. I think they might be too young to be able to take care of a baby proberly atm.
> Since a pigeon lays the 2nd egg 2 days after the first babies with a 2 day difference should be very normal since some pigeons start incubate once the first is laid right?


2 days is fine.. use the experienced pair... you can put the eggs under them within 5 days of them being incubated..if the pair took longer than 5 days to lay then that would be pushing it..and they would not have crop milk to feed at hatch time.... if you just held the eggs and did not incubate.. you would have more time...as they would be just like new laid eggs.. no development..


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## Guest (Apr 3, 2011)

Yes egg nr 1 got started 2 days before pair 1 started incubate. Egg nr 2 got started same day as pair 1 started incubate.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Frieza said:


> Yes egg nr 1 got started 2 days before pair 1 started incubate. Egg nr 2 got started same day as pair 1 started incubate.


you do want the incubated eggs to be the same..as one baby may hatch alot sooner than another..and squabs grow quick..so the young baby if he is in the same nest may not get the feedings he needs if the other is alot bigger..as the bigger squab would push him out of the way and hog the feedings.. so really if you put an older incubated egg with another incubated egg that is 2 days off there will be a problem if they hatch...if they are in the same nest.


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## Guest (Apr 3, 2011)

Yes they would have hatched the same day if i had gone with my plan but cuz of the advice given here my plan got split up wich is the result that there is a 2 day difference betwen those 2 eggs. 
My plan was to get all 5 eggs started on the same day and your plan was to hold the eggs until a pair started sitting on their own. So i went for both those plans by splitting up the eggs. 
Would been better if i had just gone with my own plan instead but too late now.
So 1 baby will hatch 2 days before the 2nd.
But will a 2 day difference be that bad? Since some pigeons do start incubate as soon as the first egg is laid and the 2nd egg comes 2 days later a 2 day difference betwen scuabs would be pretty normal.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Frieza said:


> Yes they would have hatched the same day if i had gone with my plan but cuz of the advice given here my plan got split up wich is the result that there is a 2 day difference betwen those 2 eggs.
> My plan was to get all 5 eggs started on the same day and your plan was to hold the eggs until a pair started sitting on their own. So i went for both those plans by splitting up the eggs.
> Would been better if i had just gone with my own plan instead but too late now.
> So 1 baby will hatch 2 days before the 2nd.
> But will a 2 day difference be that bad? Since some pigeons do start incubate as soon as the first egg is laid and the 2nd egg comes 2 days later a 2 day difference betwen scuabs would be pretty normal.


you really need to use your noodle more..lol.. do not blame me for your screw ups!... and yes sometime they sit the first egg..and the same problem happens.. if a pair tend to do that..I give them a fake egg untill the second is layed and then replace the fake with the real one.. the smaller squab will not get fed well if at all if the nest mate is 2 days older.. you will have to use two seperate pairs and give them each an egg..you can give them a fake egg as well..they tend to sit two better than just one..


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## Guest (Apr 3, 2011)

That´s what i asked earlier in the thread. Well i got a new idea about that atm. I could give both eggs to pair 1 and if egg nr 1 hatch i move egg nr 2 to pair 2. Cuz it´s not sure both or any of the eggs will hatch. 
That way if both eggs hatch there will be 1 baby for pair 1 and 1 baby for pair 2. But if only 1 hatch it will be pair 1s.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Frieza said:


> That´s what i asked earlier in the thread. Well i got a new idea about that atm. I could give both eggs to pair 1 and if egg nr 1 hatch i move egg nr 2 to pair 2. Cuz it´s not sure both or any of the eggs will hatch.
> That way if both eggs hatch there will be 1 baby for pair 1 and 1 baby for pair 2. But if only 1 hatch it will be pair 1s.


sounds like a plan..you could of avoided all of this if you just did what I said in the beginning.. using the incubator was not needed.. you knew your birds were ready to lay.. you could of held the eggs WITHOUT incubating them and just exchanged their real eggs for the mailed ones...done deal.. and everyone would be right ... you need not worry about holding them.. they can be viable over a week of holding them, till the pairs layed their second egg.. ........... pair 2 need to be sitting fake eggs the same time pair one is on the incubated mailed eggs....


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## Guest (Apr 3, 2011)

Well i would have used the incubator anyway cuz i want to see wich eggs would start develop and how they are doing while developing to see if they go ok. Atm egg nr 1 have the air sack a bit on the wrong place so i have put it with the round end up to try get the air sack to move up where it should be.
I put the eggs to the fosters at wednesday.
Egg nr 2 started 2 days before pair 2 started sitting.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Frieza said:


> Well i would have used the incubator anyway cuz i want to see wich eggs would start develop and how they are doing while developing to see if they go ok. Atm egg nr 1 have the air sack a bit on the wrong place so i have put it with the round end up to try get the air sack to move up where it should be.
> I put the eggs to the fosters at wednesday.
> Egg nr 2 started 2 days before pair 2 started sitting.


You can candle eggs you know.. you would put the unincubated egg under the ready pairs..and in 5 or so days.. you can take a small flashlight and check them.. not sure why.. because either they will hatch or they won't.. not much you can do about it.. I candle sometimes just for a fertility check when Im switching them out to give them fake ones.. if I let them hatch their eggs...I just leave them.. like said, they either will hatch or they won't..you use the birds for incubation..it is alot easier..and that makes the time line right..for them AND the eggs/babies.. once you have started the growth..you are making the time line harder and they have to be under the birds within that 5 day window.. eggs held without incubation can go longer. to give your birds time to lay if they are slow about it... not sure what you don't get about that.. I feel like a broken record here..


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## Guest (Apr 3, 2011)

Yes i know but i don´t like to disturb the birds and it´s alot easier to check the eggs in a totaly dark room. It doesn´t really make any difference if i let the birds incubate or if i do it myself. The only difference is that it´s easier for me to check the eggs to see if the baby inside growns right and stays alive. 
And if the egg was in the nest i wouldn´t be able to put it with the round end up to fix the airsack but in the incubator i can and the airsack is slowly getting to where it should be. 
It happens sometimes when eggs gets shaken that the airsack gets out of place and have to get fixed by putting the egg with the round side up for awhile.
The timeline is good since it´s only 2 days and that shouldn´t be a problem.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Frieza said:


> Yes i know but i don´t like to disturb the birds and it´s alot easier to check the eggs in a totaly dark room. It doesn´t really make any difference if i let the birds incubate or if i do it myself. The only difference is that it´s easier for me to check the eggs to see if the baby inside growns right and stays alive.
> And if the egg was in the nest i wouldn´t be able to put it with the round end up to fix the airsack but in the incubator i can and the airsack is slowly getting to where it should be.
> It happens sometimes when eggs gets shaken that the airsack gets out of place and have to get fixed by putting the egg with the round side up for awhile.
> The timeline is good since it´s only 2 days and that shouldn´t be a problem.


oh please.. you act like your afraid of your birds or something... I have 40 pigeons.. and candle eggs out there in the loft with no problems. AND really it is not even nessesary... you can prop the egg with the sack problem anywhere..does not have to be in an incubator... so,... you see an egg IS fertile.. big whoop.. how does that help you?... if you put two eggs under a pair.. candle them..which is done all the time by pigeon fanciers mind you..with no ill effects on the birds OR human doing it and it is fertile..same thing.. big whoop... not fertile..big whoop again..pigeons sit on nonfertile eggs all the time.. IT WILL EITHER HATCH OR IT WON'T.. starting them out yourself does nothing..but makes things more complicated.. and how about handling a fertile started egg.. I would rather it be in the nest from the beginning so I would not worry about moving it around and taking it out to the nest... lordy!.. has your family ever told you you were hard headed?...lol..


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## Atchafalaya Lofts (Apr 2, 2011)

Spirit Wings, just give up. He/She is OBVIOUSLY just here to show how superior they are. They don't need or want your opinions, they just want to act stupid.


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2011)

Well everyone got their own way of doing things and there´s nothing wrong with mine cuz it works best for me and my birds. I do not like to stress my birds by entering their home too often. 
I want to follow the development of the eggs to see that they will do ok even when they have been shaken around in the mail.
Why would that be a bad thing to do? It saves the birds from the stress and it makes it alot easier for me to candle the eggs. If they were in the nest i would have to take the egg, walk inside the house, up the stairs to my dark room and candle and then walk back with it.
Checking eggs outside just gives a rough check if the eggs are fertile or not but it doesn´t show all the veins and if the baby is moving like it does in a totaly dark room.
How would i have been able to fix the egg with the airsack problem without an incubator?
If you don´t like my way of doing why don´t you just tell me to leave?
And what problems i got with my head isn´t something you should know.
I am not superior i am just doing things my own way as you do it yours.
I don´t complain about what everyone do 'wrong' in my opinion here. 
I let them do what they think is best even if i concider it wrong.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

Frieza said:


> Yes i would be interested in buying it but problem is i live in sweden. So it wouldn´t be possible. There are ppl selling over here too but they are very far away from where i live.
> Pic of the mixbreeds:


 Hello Frieza, I have looked at the pictures that you posted. What you have are Syrian fantails (flying or tumbling types)these are a very rare breed in the United States and most people here do not know the breed. .GEORGE


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2011)

Everyone else i talked with said they are clearly mixbreeds and the one i bought them from had fantails and homing pigeons so it should be a mix of those two.
They were sold as fantails but only 1 of them were a real one.
They don´t look like the pics of syrian fantails i found on google either.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Frieza said:


> Well everyone got their own way of doing things and there´s nothing wrong with mine cuz it works best for me and my birds. I do not like to stress my birds by entering their home too often.
> I want to follow the development of the eggs to see that they will do ok even when they have been shaken around in the mail.
> Why would that be a bad thing to do? It saves the birds from the stress and it makes it alot easier for me to candle the eggs. If they were in the nest i would have to take the egg, walk inside the house, up the stairs to my dark room and candle and then walk back with it.
> Checking eggs outside just gives a rough check if the eggs are fertile or not but it doesn´t show all the veins and if the baby is moving like it does in a totaly dark room.
> ...


I can see the veins fine in the loft.. your lack of experience shows and it is a bit foolish.. you will have to put the egg/s under the birds at some point..and actually have to go out there where your birds are.. oh my goodness! and tuck the eggs in.. so really there is no more anyone can help you with ,good luck and with your unwillingness to listen.. there is not much reason for you to be here. you may get some babies or baby out of this...I will pray for it/them


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2011)

I can´t see inside the eggs well when i candle them where it´s bright. I only see inside it when i am in a dark room.
I never listen to advice given on something i did not ask for cuz it just messes things up. 
Some of your advice makes no sence either. I think it´s best to have the eggs in a incubator to be able to follow the development to be able to see that the babies do ok and not die.
You don´t need to check that cuz your eggs haven´t gone tru mail and you probably don´t see it as a big deal if your birds' eggs hatch or not.

So tell me what´s so wrong with me having the eggs inside atm? In what way is it bad to check if the eggs stay alive all way to when i put them out in the nest?

And well i'll be leaving then. This forum is no good.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Frieza said:


> I can´t see inside the eggs well when i candle them where it´s bright. I only see inside it when i am in a dark room.
> I never listen to advice given on something i did not ask for cuz it just messes things up.
> Some of your advice makes no sence either. I think it´s best to have the eggs in a incubator to be able to follow the development to be able to see that the babies do ok and not die.
> You don´t need to check that cuz your eggs haven´t gone tru mail and you probably don´t see it as a big deal if your birds' eggs hatch or not.
> ...



"to see if the babies do ok and not die".. what the heck are you going to do give them mouth to mouth..your just resisitant to listen and learn. and in that case there is no reason for you to be here.
do you just not use your brain, you can candle an egg in the evening when the light is less. your just not getting it and Im tired of going back and forth.. I can not try to help you here any longer.. good bye.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Frieza said:


> .....I never listen to advice given on something i did not ask for cuz it just messes things up.
> Some of your advice makes no sence either.


Advice is given for those that want to listen and learn,
You on the other hand seem to know (or think you know) everything, and are so arrogant about it that you wont listen.

Even the most experianced members on here learn new things all the time, because they want to do and try the best for their birds.



Frieza said:


> .....And well i'll be leaving then. This forum is no good.


typical attitude of arrogance. 
only sad thing about it is its the birds who will suffer. 

nuff said.


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