# My right to feed the birds...



## wondermaarta (Sep 25, 2003)

Hello All. I need some advice. I live in the middle of NYC and have a small balcony outside my bedroom window. It is not meant for a person to be outside on because it is very small, but it is big enough for plants and such. For the last year I have been feeding the pigeons off of this balcony. They come every morning and wait for me to feed them, and I look forward to seeing my feathered friends every day. 

Recently, I returned home from a weekend away, and someone from my property management company had entered my apartment while I was away, gone out onto the balcony and permanently attached these HORRIFIC anti-pigeon devises all along the edge of the balcony! The devise is like very long, sharp plastic scewers that stick straight up in the air, and if a bird were to land on them, they could be pierced and severly injured or killed by these wretched things. What makes it worse is that they are clear plastic which is probably nearly invisible to any bird who might alight on my balcony. This devise seems to me almost to be in the category of "cruelty to animals", and I'm tempted to report it to the ASPCA if there is any legal reason for me to do so.

Anyway, I can't tell you how much of an affront these things are to me every day - I look out my window and see these torture implements and fear for the sweet birds who may be harmed by them. I didn't feed any of them for a while out of fear for their safety, but in the last few days, the pigies and I have gotten smart enough to figure out how to get around them and still eat. 

Do I have any rights here? It's still not illegal to feed the birds in NYC, right? Do I have the right to smash these hideous things to smitherines or do I have no rights since this building belongs to someone else and I am only the tenant? I don't want to start a war with my landlord, but I also want to exercise my rights if I have any. 

No matter what, no one will tell me I can't feed the birds.

Thank you for your advice.


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## pigeoncare (Apr 8, 2004)

This has got to be the perfect example of what bird loving New Yorkers have to put up with. 
There is a New York group trying to fight these horrors and hopefully, one of the members of that group will see your post and respond to it.
If you are renting, we both know that a landlord has the right to enter your premises. The question is, does the structure constitute inhumane treatment and for that, you need to call the law enforcement arm of the ASPCA. They will know if it is legal although I think it probably is.
I would walk softly with this situation and approach the landlord to politely (you still have to live there.) request that these spikes be taken down Explain that you won't feed the birds on your balcony again (if they already know you do.) Take the food to an area where there will be minimal observation by others. 
There is an ongoing anti-animal philosophy in New York. There are attempts to disallow any kind of pet in many residential buildings. There is a case of someone poisoning pigeons and the ASPCA is actively looking for the individual(s). 
You really need to quietly consult with an attorney knowledgable with rental laws to find out if the landlord has the right to take his access priveledges to this extreme.


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## birdy (Mar 18, 2004)

What a bummer!!!

My nature would be to rip it out myself or fasten a flat board over the spikes but that's probably not a good idea.

I wish I could offer something constructive other than my sympathies. What's with people??? I tell you it just pisses me off!

Good luck - I wish you all the best.

birdy


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

God Bless you wondermarta, I can understand how you feel...yet, I don't know how to resolve your immediate problem.

I am appalled that someone can come into your place, without your knowledge or approval. When you rent from month to month, and pay each month, it is like owning the place from month to month. You should have the same privacy and rights. 

My dad put our landlord to the test when he entered our backyard when we were kids, without our knowledge or approval. Found out he(the landlord) had no right trespassing or being anywhere in our yard, as long as we paid our rent on time. He was a scary, yukky....sorry to get off the subject)

Treesa


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## dano7 (Feb 10, 2004)

The inner city is where we find the worst of humans - maybe it is because they are crowded themselves.

Since the landlord invaded your place without notice to deter pigeons, he knows you feed them, doesn't want to argue about it, and made the problem go away. It is not likely you will have the time and money to fight such losers - then again maybe it is just what you should do - it's a personal deal. 

The birds have a way of finding any weakness in these barricades as you have seen. So far as I know, the birds are too athletic to get hurt on these things. If they can still come and feed then you could keep a low profile and the ball is in the landlord's court.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Sadly these spikes are considered a humane deterrent although you are correct in recognising them as potentially lethal. Most adult birds will learn how to negotiate them but I have seen one impaled and kicked up a fuss in my local paper about it. It is the fledglings that are mostly at risk because they will land heavily.

Cynthia


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## cathbe (Feb 19, 2004)

I would reread the lease. When I negotiated my lease - one of those standard Blumberg (or whatever it's called...) leases - I changed the part about entering the apartment to giving 48 hours notice. However, they aren't supposed to just enter for anything it is supposed to be for an emergency. Even if they know you were feeding the pigeons, that doesn't constitute an emergency and they should notify you. Did they know you were going to be away??? I would say something about entering without notification and that you want the spikes removed. Are you in a big building? Does anyone else have them? It's horrible, it's like your space isn't your 'own.' Let us know ... cath.


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## wondermaarta (Sep 25, 2003)

Thanks, you guys. I am taking Dano's advice since the birds and I have figured out how to still feed without being impeded by these hideous stakes. I don't care if anyone knows that I feed the birds as long as it's not illegal, and I'll do so in the face of any adversity. I, too, would love to smash the nasty things to bits, but I don't imagine that will help my cause, help the birds or help me to keep the peace, and I'm willing to bet the landlord can cause me lots of problems if I do any damage to the stake since they aren't "my" property. The pigeons seem to know the danger and are avoiding the stakes...they are feeding in a safe corner of my balcony as far from the stakes as possible...but I'm just so concerned that one unsuspecting bird might become injured. I would never forgive myself if that were to happen. It's good to hear that the birds are athletic enough to maneuver around these things though. More thoughts are appreciated...


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## wondermaarta (Sep 25, 2003)

And to answer your questions, Cath...

You're absolutely right this wasn't an emergency and I probably can take action becasue it was an illegal entry. The in NO WAY gave me notice about entering the apartment in person or on my phone machine, and they gave me no warning about feeding the birds. As far as I know, they didn't know I was going out of town, but who knows. The building is medium: one of those 100yr old jobbies that's about 9 stories high with 8 apartments on each floor. No one else has the stakes on their balcony...I could start a war here...not sure if I should, but if I do, I need to be ready to leave this building which will also leave these pigeons without regular food, and the landlord would have won anyway. I'm NOT going to stop feeding them. I just don't want one of them to die in the process. Thanks


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## pigeoncare (Apr 8, 2004)

What do you think of the idea of painting the spikes red all the way up to the top so the birds will better be able to spot them?


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## cathbe (Feb 19, 2004)

Do you feel like asking them what's up? Maybe in kind of an innocent way, that you didn't get any notice which you believed was required... and you don't like them there... ? I've heard various on whether the spikes are harmful ... but nothing concrete, mostly opinion(could be based on 'fact' but I don't know). So, I don't know. The idea of painting them red is an interesting one. The fact that no one else has the spikes probably means that someone called to complain. (I assume others can see the balcony?) It's like... what's the big deal... in my view. (but obviously many don't feel this way.) I agree also with the idea of checking with an attorney - if you know someone who could just let you know where you stand. True, you don't want to get kicked out. But finding out your legal rights and asking a question of the landlord would be okay. Our NYC group ha been looking into what the 'laws' say but some are unclear. However, most of them apply to parks and wouldn't seem to apply to your own apartment. Good luck! thanks for writing. I think asking to get them removed and/or painting red are good solutions.

Cath.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Hello wondermaarta,
First & foremost, I would check into the NYC legal statutes (should be able to obtain them from the Internet) or seek the advice of an attorney regarding the legality of the landlord being able to enter your dwelling 'at will'. I would think that would be a big NO! NO!
Here in AZ it is absolutely illegal to enter anyone's home, apartment, etc., without prior consent or notice unless it is an emergency. 

You might want to think twice about taking Fred's advice to 'paint' the spikes as that would be 'defacing' private property & the owner of the spikes could very well have grounds to file a complaint against you.

Once a person has obtained knowledge of their legal rights then they have something to fall back on when confronting the leasing office, management company, etc. 

Good luck & please do keep us posted.
Cindy


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## pigeoncare (Apr 8, 2004)

Cindy's right about painting the spikes red. Unfortunately we are not experts in the area of NYC tenant-landlord laws and probably at a big disadvantage because of it. You really need to speak to somebody who knows these statutes.


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## JGregg (Jul 28, 2003)

You don't nessisarily need to spend money on a lawyer, get in touch with NYC tennant advocate groups. A tennant advocate group in California (where I live) helped me stick it to a landlord that tried to screw me over. You have more rights than the landlord so use 'em!


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

A law professor once said:
"If you don't know your rights, you have no rights"

Here in AZ an individual may request a copy of the 'Residential Landlord & Tenant Act' from the Secretary of State's Office. They will send it free of charge. 
This booklet is invaluable as it contains the rights of both the landlord & tenant, cited by Article, Statute & description.

I would imagine each state has something similar & it would be well worth the effort to inquire about obtaining a copy.
Cindy



[This message has been edited by AZWhitefeather (edited April 30, 2004).]


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## dano7 (Feb 10, 2004)

You may try placing some wide, clear strips of cellophane tape or a clear plastic sheet over the spikes. The spikes would not be damaged, the birds would have sufficient buffer for safety, and unless your enemy is your next door neighbor, which is entirely likely, this may not be so noticeble to the landlord.

But you need to get the legal picture and decide on what's right, because if the birds remain, there will likely be a fight.


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## ~pigeonlover~ (Jan 14, 2004)

my dad rents our house but the landlord doesn't mind me keeping pigeons someone even complained to him about them and he said we can do wot we want aslong as we pay rent on time


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Maybe impale some corks on the spikes so no-one can get injured?

John


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

Now that is one 'cool' landlord pigeonlover.
It would be great if more landlords had that attitude.
Cindy

********


"Putting corks on the spikes", what a wonderful idea John.
Cindy


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

That really is a great idea John!!

I was thinking something like that as well (rubber balls or something) but corks are perfect!









Mary


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## Alexx (Apr 23, 2004)

By law, they CANNOT enter your apartment without your consent, you should try to get some legal assistance from Peta/Aspca/Humane Society/Fund for Animals.
One of those organizations will be able to advise on how to proceed.

I think you are incredibly brave and commend you for conitnuing to feed them despite the barriers bestowed upon you.

You should not let them get away with illegally entering your apartment. If you show them you know the law, they won't mess with you a second time. 


Good luck to you.


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## Whitefeather (Sep 2, 2002)

"You should not let them get away with illegally entering your apartment. If you show them you know the law, they won't mess with you a second time." 

You are 100% correct Alexx. 
Cindy


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## wondermaarta (Sep 25, 2003)

Thanks for all the support and ideas...I'm going to try to find some cork as soon as possible to put on the spikes. So far, the pigeons are staying away from them and feeding close to my window. I haven't approached the property management company yet because I'm trying to get all my ducks in a row and find out my legal rights. I'm amazed that NO ONE in charge at my building has approached me on the matter yet. I've crossed paths with the property manager, the assistant property manager and the super since this incedent and not a one of them has mentioned a thing. Interesting.


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## Guest (May 4, 2004)

WonderMaarta

I was told that only a flood or a fire are a good reason for entering the apartment. Don't let them have the keys - though if there is an emergency, you may have to pay for a broken door.

Those are good ideas for covering the spikes. I know the metal spikes are dangerous, as Cynthia said. Are you sure the plastic ones are, too?

Tenant.net - NYC law and issues. AnimalLaw.com.

The ASPCA for law about animals. But we're far from clear on it, as Cathryn said. 

The best thing i've seen here is a clue on how to fight spikes: they are cruel. We're already getting closer to prodding the SPCA into fighting hunting pigeons with nets (will post here). 

PICAS recommends spikes (see the company they say to buy deterents from). We should complain to them about an organization that in some ways is very humane not warning against the spikes.

Sorry that i have no time to post the web addresses for these references.

Al Streit
Pigeon People http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pijnpeople


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## dano7 (Feb 10, 2004)

For the building people, they have a winner and there is nothing left to gain so there is no reason to talk to you for any reason. It's not a quality business model but it is effective on mean street.

The ball is in your court and I think you are right to not commit to a path unless it is one you can win or one you are compelled to regardless of outcome. I would put my priorities with the birds, so I might not fight as I would if it were just me involved.


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## Jules (Nov 28, 2003)

...here in Toronto.
I feed the pigeons from my home (I own). Neighbours complained. Sent a city official to have a "chat" with me. Not illegal here to feed the birds. Although I was more discreet..I was cocky and continued to feed the birds. Two weeks later there were scores of dead pigeons, wildbirds, mice even a couple of raccoons within a few house radius. Poison. Called the Ministry of Natural Resources. They started an investigation. I called the guy every day for three months. Never returned one call.
I feed the pigeons somewhere else.

Even though it is not illegal to feed the birds here and it is illegal to put out poison... who won?... and who lost?
Might I suggest before you situation escalates you deal with it head on. 
Talk to the property managers.(keep your emotion in check)
What were the issues/complaints? 
How long have the complaints been coming in? Why weren't you invited to help solve this issue? 
What other possible solutions could there be besides these spikes? 
You might just have to feed them elsewhere. 
If they have come in before and these spikes didn't solve their problem , they will come in again. Poison could be put out on your own balcony.
Even if they have broken some law, the birds have still paid the ultimate price.
My two cents.

Julianne


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## dano7 (Feb 10, 2004)

That's exactly the best point - I know because I have a wilder flock of 20 - 50 birds and most people are supportive but others are not. If I fight the wrong person my birds are all dead. Who's fault would that be? Mine of course. That's how it is so if you love your birds it's usually best to have a low profile with assholes because it might be you that gets them thinking their most evil thoughts when they otherwise could not be bothered.


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## wondermaarta (Sep 25, 2003)

Geeze this is horrible. 

I feel so terrible for the birds. If I fight, they might be killed. If I stop feeding, they might not have regular food and die from starvation. If I feed discretely, one of them might accidently land on a spike. Just this morning, I was feeding them, and a young one landed not knowing the spikes were there. He was trying to balance each foot on the end of the spikes and I could see the confusion in his eyes...he flapped wildly, and I thought maybe he was caught...and my worst nightmare flashed through my mind as I imagined that I would be the cause of the death of one of these birds because I had encouraged them to land on my balcony for food!

Thankfully, this little guy figured out that his perch was unsafe and flew away. I haven't mentioned anything to the property management company yet because I am avoiding drawing attention to the birds. It's just so sad that we and the birds have to be in this dilemma.

I will be moving out of the city in a few months (August) and will be done with all of this...but my heart aches knowing I will leave behind these souls who still have to put up the good fight against the cruelty of humans which seems to be a losing battle. 

I'm glad for this site and for the education it might possibly provide to the ignorant.


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## dano7 (Feb 10, 2004)

Well it's horrible but there is a lot of positives: The good guys have not been materially harmed (you and the birdys); you have a greater understanding of the playing field; you can continue to feed your friends for the summer. As a goodbye gift to your birds you could medicate them for canker and worms - they almost certainly can use and appreciate it!


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## alea (Jan 20, 2004)

I am horrified that they entered without your being notified and horrified about those evil contraptions.
Just a thought,... that balcony is also your fire escape, right? I might think about using that fact in your argument if it comes down to confronting your management. The spikes may impede your escaping in an emergency. Of course, continue to arm yourself with knowledge.... 
Best of luck.
Alea


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## daisiedove (May 9, 2004)

> Originally posted by wondermaarta:
> *Hello All. I need some advice. I live in the middle of NYC and have a small balcony outside my bedroom window. It is not meant for a person to be outside on because it is very small, but it is big enough for plants and such. For the last year I have been feeding the pigeons off of this balcony. They come every morning and wait for me to feed them, and I look forward to seeing my feathered friends every day.
> 
> Recently, I returned home from a weekend away, and someone from my property management company had entered my apartment while I was away, gone out onto the balcony and permanently attached these HORRIFIC anti-pigeon devises all along the edge of the balcony! The devise is like very long, sharp plastic scewers that stick straight up in the air, and if a bird were to land on them, they could be pierced and severly injured or killed by these wretched things. What makes it worse is that they are clear plastic which is probably nearly invisible to any bird who might alight on my balcony. This devise seems to me almost to be in the category of "cruelty to animals", and I'm tempted to report it to the ASPCA if there is any legal reason for me to do so.
> ...


You should contact the New York Companion Bird Club. They might steer you in the right direction.


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## wondermaarta (Sep 25, 2003)

Thanks again for the thoughts. No, this isn't a fire escape, unfortunately - just a decorative little balcony for plants and things. 

Just an update for those interested: the other night there was a thunder storm, and my foot "accidently" went out onto my balcony and smashed one of the contraptions. Well, low and behold, it went flying to the ground showing me that it wasn't as permanently attached as I had orginially thought! My foot managed to smash two more (which also went flying) leaving about 7 more in tact. Of course, as far as I'm concerned, the storm blew them down...

Also, I noticed up in the corner of my balcony there is a fake owl! I don't know when that was placed there, but it made me laugh, and I thought, "Now THAT I am fine with! There is nothing cruel about that or harmful in any way, and if it keeps the pigeons away, so be it." 

Well, the pigeons couldn't care less about the owl and feast every morning on my balcony anyway!


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Fake owls make wonderful perches for pigeons.

I am so "sorry" about your accident, I hope that you weren't hurt when your foot accidentally hit those contraptions!










Cynthia


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## wondermaarta (Sep 25, 2003)

Thanks, I was so sad to see that some of those contraptions had been blown down by the wind (and the underside of my foot!)

The owl has become a part of the family and the pigeons & I call him "Scarecrow". He can stay as long as he likes...


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Reminds me of when I put a fake horned owl outside (several years back) as a token gesture to appease the management. Within less than one day, 'my' youngsters had christened it by perching on it and giving it a nice poopy hat









I figure my UK pigeons wouldn't know a horned owl from a hole in the wall!!

John


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