# Aggressive male dove. :/



## PhelanVelvel (Jun 12, 2017)

Hey guys, I posted here a while back that I had adopted a female ringneck dove. She was kept alone for many years at her previous home, but it became obvious once I had her that she was lonely. Between her cooing, trying to be friends with my budgies, and what I read here about doves, I decided it would be best to find her a friend/mate. First, I tried a male pigeon who needed a home (Pillin), but that didn't work out; he was too aggressive. I recently managed to find her a male ringneck dove.

They seemed to get along and be happy with one another right away. That lasted a few weeks. Now, however, he is beating the crap out of her. It seems he alternates between pecking her incessantly and mounting her. She is already permanently bald-headed from an injury that happened when she was young, long before I got her, so she has even less protection in that area than a normal dove. Her right eyelid is also a bit misshapen, presumably from an old injury, too.

I noticed some increased aggression the past few days, but I had read that pigeons and doves aren't always nice to their mates during courtship, so I tried to just remove her from the cage now and then to hang out with me and get some relief. I thought that might be helping a bit.

This morning I went to their cage and saw she was just sitting on the floor of the cage with her right eye held shut, as if she were just used to being attacked by this point. He was on the branch above her and wasn't attacking her, but she still remained there, as if afraid to move.

The male coos like crazy when I remove her. If I have them both out, in the living room, he will eventually come to rest on the perch beside her. I do think he wants her around, but he is just making her so submissive that she has taken to sitting in one place, not moving. That can't be normal, can it?

I believe this is the cage they have: http://www.kingscages.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductID=405

I know it isn't an aviary, but it isn't exactly tiny. She isn't terribly coordinated or quick when she moves, though, so it's not as though she can nimbly avoid him. Nor does she retaliate and stand up for herself when he's being too overbearing.

I don't want to just take him away so she can be alone again, but I'm not sure what to do about this "abuse" situation. If they have to be in separate cages, for how long? Why will his aggressive behaviour just dissolve by being in a separate cage from her? Won't it just return when they get back together?

If anyone has any ideas/advice, let me know. I read that housing doves singly was wrong, and I could see she was lonely, so I wanted to help her... Now she's just getting beaten up. Is she too frail to withstand a mate's advances? Thank you for any help you can offer.

Edit: I wondered if me removing her might just be angering the male, but I saw the way she was just sitting there lifelessly with her poor eye held shut (which I'm sure is painful from being pecked), and I wanted to take her out so I could come on here and post without worrying about her. Plus, if I ever want to take her out, do I have to worry about him being so angry he's going to take it out on her? I thought ringneck doves were these gentle, easygoing creatures. D;


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## bootface (Jun 29, 2017)

They can’t be in the same cage together at this point. One of my pigeons almost killed the mate of another before I adopted them. They were separated for months after that, and then in adjacent enclosures for another 2 months. I haven’t had any problems since I reintroduced them in October, but I’m prepared to remove the aggressor again in the spring. They might get along after being separated for a while, they might not. But at this point they absolutely cannot be in the same cage. He could kill her. They might not be compatible.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Can you not post a picture of their actual cage? Do they have a nest? He may be trying to drive her to the nest, but if they don't have one, that would be confusing, as she has no where to go.
I agree that you cannot leave her in with him right now. If this continues, you could maybe get a female friend for her instead of the male.


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## PhelanVelvel (Jun 12, 2017)

I saw that she had started sitting in the food dish, so, thinking that she wanted to use it as a nest, I put a dish of the same size with a towel in there. I figured it would be more comfortable, and our budgies basically just nested on paper towels, so I figured it would be fine as a nest. I don't think she has used it, though. Should I try and make a better nest with better nesting materials (I just looked it up online), or should I just try and get the guy to take the male dove back at this point?

Edit: I just mentioned all this to my housemate, who hangs out in the bird room with his bird a lot, and he told me that Kojak, my female dove, is in the nest all the time. He said he sees the male mounting her, but she doesn't lift her tail the way we have seen pigeons/doves do in videos. He said that it seems like she just sits there and doesn't know how to do the mating behaviour, and that must be frustrating the male. I honestly didn't know Kojak was in the nest that much. I guess it can't be that he is trying to drive her to the nest and not succeeding if she is already sitting in the nest.

I'm afraid maybe she doesn't know what to do to make the male happy. She has always seemed a little off, and I'm wondering if she has the actual physical/mental abilities to do this. I'm not sure this mated lifestyle is right for her. I honestly just wanted to make her happy, as I heard that keeping them alone is cruel, but she just seems to get beaten up by any bird who is put with her. I'm more than happy having her just be my buddy and she can hang out with my budgies and me, but I thought I was doing her wrong by that.

Edit: I texted the guy to ask if he would take the male back, but he moved to an apartment that doesn't allow pets.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I would first try with a decent nest bowl, and some kind of nesting material so they can maybe make a nest. See what happens. But be sure to keep an eye on her. If it isn't any better, then I would rehome him to someone. I would probably try to find a female friend for her. I think I remember you said before that she was looking for a mate, so wouldn't want to keep her alone.


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## PhelanVelvel (Jun 12, 2017)

Jay3 said:


> I would first try with a decent nest bowl, and some kind of nesting material so they can maybe make a nest. See what happens. But be sure to keep an eye on her. If it isn't any better, then I would rehome him to someone. I would probably try to find a female friend for her. I think I remember you said before that she was looking for a mate, so wouldn't want to keep her alone.


I really like this little guy and wish it could work out, but I think I should just start looking for a home for him. I tried putting her back in with him just to see if he had calmed down a bit, and he immediately started going relentlessly at her. Even if the new nest did some good to change their behaviour, I think she would probably sustain some damage in the meantime. She just allows herself to be pecked in the face and eyes... I am sad it didn't work out, but I'm afraid of what will happen if I keep trying to make it work out.

Edit: I just mentioned all this to my housemate, who hangs out in the bird room with his bird a lot, and he told me that Kojak, my female dove, is in the nest all the time. He said he sees the male mounting her, but she doesn't lift her tail the way we have seen pigeons/doves do in videos. He said that it seems like she just sits there and doesn't know how to do the mating behaviour, and that must be frustrating the male. I honestly didn't know Kojak was in the nest that much. I guess it can't be that he is trying to drive her to the nest and not succeeding if she is already sitting in the nest.

This is stressful. Now I'm worried about poor Char-Char (the male) finding a good home. ;__;


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Even with pigeons, some males are more aggressive than others. Many calm down after they mature a bit. When kept in a cage I think it is more difficult, as the female has no where to go. It isn't really normal for birds to have to stay in a cage all the time. There is nothing for them to do, and I think sometimes causes more aggression. They need to be able to get away from each other and have other things to do and explore. I don't think any bird can be happy confined to a cage. Just not natural. They are smart and need other stimulation.


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## PhelanVelvel (Jun 12, 2017)

Jay3 said:


> Even with pigeons, some males are more aggressive than others. Many calm down after they mature a bit. When kept in a cage I think it is more difficult, as the female has no where to go. It isn't really normal for birds to have to stay in a cage all the time. There is nothing for them to do, and I think sometimes causes more aggression. They need to be able to get away from each other and have other things to do and explore. I don't think any bird can be happy confined to a cage. Just not natural. They are smart and need other stimulation.


Look, I'm not a proponent of keeping birds permanently caged. I have five birds (six yesterday, because of Kojak) following me around the house, perched on my head and shoulders, everyday. I just thought that this was how people kept ringneck doves. I thought they just got along nicely together, even when in their cage. I don't believe in keeping animals in bad conditions. They live in the bird room facing windows that occupy a whole wall and can see and hear other birds. I hadn't been taking them out as much lately, but I thought they were just fine in the cage as long as they had each other.

She can't fly properly; she mainly just hovers a bit until she falls. When I have them out in the living room, she also can't get away from him because he's so much faster. She did the "lying on the floor without moving" behaviour when they were out of their cage as well. This was before I thought the aggression was a big problem as it didn't seem as severe. They had all that space to hang out and we still had to run over and "save her" from him. I scooped her off the floor and put her on my shoulder.

Maybe their lack of stimulation led to this aggression building up, in which case I blame myself, but I actually thought I was helping her. When I had her out with me all the time and I was reading that humans don't do anything for doves, and they'd rather be in a loft just courting and breeding, I changed priorities and went about finding her a mate.

I realised yesterday that maybe I should give them a foraging box like I have for the other birds, but I'm questioning whether any enrichment solutions will help enough. They don't chew things, they don't seem to be interested in destroying things for fun, they don't pick up objects, cache them, or dunk them in water like some of my other birds (not all parrots). Like I said, she can't get away from him. He can fly properly and is strong and fast. She mainly putters about. If she can't physically get away without me scooping her up, no size aviary will help.

I am very sorry if I screwed up. I have a large cage with untame budgies I've rescued and adopted. They don't come out often because they aren't tame, and it's rough getting eleven untame budgies back in a cage, but for the most part they get along and seem pretty happy because they have each other and live in a decent space. I thought the doves would be the same.

Now I am rather stressed about finding Char-Char a home. I'm not "one of these people" who just locks birds in cages... In fact, I go the other direction and am a proponent of free flight for the birds who are capable of it. It's not like I wanted another dove to breed them or something. I just wanted to make her happy after she lived alone for eight years. But maybe the fact that she was scalped when she was younger indicates a propensity to not be able to avoid other birds' aggression.

And yes, I realise I am getting defensive, and I apologise. I'm just upset because I do a lot to make sure my birds have plenty of stimulation, but in this case, I did honestly think they would be happy just being together, much like my untame budgies. Now I'm finding out, after two failed mates, Kojak is probably safest and happiest hanging with me rather than being bullied by a stronger dove. Doves and pigeons just seem really mean to each other. The pigeon we tried with her wasn't even in the same cage as her. Same thing: when they were allowed to be loose in the room together (after a period of seeing each other in different cages), he would just beat her up any time they got near each other. I don't have this level of difficulty with any of my other birds.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I don't know why you are feeling defensive with me. I'm not blaming you. I'm just saying how they are, especially if one is aggressive. I think he needs other things to focus on other than her. Not blaming you for his personality. Maybe she would be better off without him, especially after 8 years. A quiet female might be nice company though.


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## PhelanVelvel (Jun 12, 2017)

Jay3 said:


> I don't know why you are feeling defensive with me. I'm not blaming you. I'm just saying how they are, especially if one is aggressive. I think he needs other things to focus on other than her. Not blaming you for his personality. Maybe she would be better off without him, especially after 8 years. A quiet female might be nice company though.


It's not your fault. I'm just upset about having to rehome him and not being able to give him back to his previous owner. It makes me so sad to hear him call for her, but I know if I put her back he's just going to hurt her. :[ Poor guy. I'm afraid it's going to take a while to find him a home, and I am sorry I can't give him what he needs.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I know it is too bad to have to rehome him. Really sad that it didn't work out, but she may be too old to start with mates at 8 years old. But I still think a nice companion would make her happy. 
I know it's not easy rehoming, as you want to be sure of where they are going. I hope a good home for him comes up. Not his fault, he doesn't realize.


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