# Can Anyone ID spirit and Ice for me



## Kims babies (Oct 13, 2006)

Hi

I have a lovely pair of Birds but don't know what breed they are. They were meant to be White garden Fantail Doves. They do have raised tails but only slightly.

Can you help? Pleease excuse the colour of them, They are normally pure white. I bought them new grit with powder'd minerals in it. They thought it would be funny to get covered in it and then it rained, hence they look orange.


http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r10/kim1whitty/DSC00156.jpg


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## Kims babies (Oct 13, 2006)

Plaese help me, I'm new to pigeon talk and everyone seems so helpfull


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Hi Kims babies. And welcome to Pigeon-Talk.
Your birds are very beautiful, but they don't look like fantails.
That's all I can tell you as I am not sure what breed they are.

Reti


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Hi Kims babies~

I looked at your picture, they are sure beautiful, but they sure don't look like fantails in that picture...now, your Avatar picture has a resemblance of one. I am assuming it is one of the same birds? 

I am sure that before the end of the day, a member may have an answer for all of us.


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## Kims babies (Oct 13, 2006)

Thanks so much, yes the Avatar picture is (daddy) sat on the babies when they were about 4 days old, hence the gonna eat you look if you come closer.

Will add some more pictures to see if it helps x


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## Kims babies (Oct 13, 2006)

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r10/kim1whitty/DSC00160.jpg

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r10/kim1whitty/DSC00089.jpg

need to get some pics tommorrow of them side on with tails in veiw eh x


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

Hi Kim, gorgeous birds! Maybe they're a fantail cross? I have one who has the potential to be a fantail but rarely raises her tail to make it fan out (I've actually only seen her do it once lol). I'm sure someone else like George will be able to identify them properly for you.


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## Kims babies (Oct 13, 2006)

It's a shame they had such fun in the grit and ruined their lovely white feathers. They really do look dirty and have such a smurk on their faces, sure they know it was naughty.

At least Peanut and Hazel will be pure white when they leave the nest, they are so cute now. At 18 days old.

Hopefully Goerge will know what they are x


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*Hawk Catchers*

HI KIM, You have a very speical bird it is ESCAMPADISSA ROLLER. What makes this pigeon special is that it was bred to help trap and catch hawks,on the Spanish islands of Majorca.if you go to this web site i think you will see two white birds just like yours.They do come in other colors.  www.cichlidlovers.com/birds_escamp.htm These are rare birds in the USA some day I hope to have a few. .GEORGE


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## Kims babies (Oct 13, 2006)

WOW George, I can't believe it. That's them, I have searched and searched for pictures that looks just a bit like them but nothing. They do carry their tails slightly fanned like the ones in the link so I guess thats why the chap said they were fantails.

I am so gratefull, I'm in the UK, or i would have given you a pair with pleasure. The chicks are growing very quickly now.


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## Jiggs (Apr 1, 2005)

Hi George and Kim

Now this was a really interesting thread. Always so much to learn!!!

And now Kim knows she can actually fly her babies - are you going to Kim??


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

What an interesting story and breed!

Well, Kim I'm betting your thrilled with your new found knowledge...and George, you never cease to amaze me!


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## Victor (Dec 18, 2004)

Trees Gray said:


> What an interesting story and breed!
> 
> Well, Kim I'm betting your thrilled with your new found knowledge...and George, you never cease to amaze me!


I too agree Treesa. 

And when I first read this, I thought of our retired Marine, George. Darn, I 

was right on target!


You go George!


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

What an amazing breed! The description of the bomb-burst is intriguing. Thanks for the interesting link, George. Congratulations, Kim, on your beautiful talented birds!


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## Kims babies (Oct 13, 2006)

They are still contained with a cage we built over the dove cote, they will be free flying when I let them out. 

I'm scared to death about letting them out cos my first pair (that looked different to these) flew away leaving the eggs in the nest. So I had to wait for the chap to catch me some more.

I have had Spirit and Ice now for 7 weeks in the Dove cote, they seem totally at home (unlike the 1st 2). They are wonderfull parents but are still a little wary of me, I spend half my time 7ft up the ladder just talking to them and they are coming round. The chicks Peanut and Hazel are now 19 days old so I'm gonna have to think about letting them out soon.

Does anyone have any suggestions about the best way to do this? Any clues as to whether they will stay with me, will be devastated if they go x

The little babies
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r10/kim1whitty/DSC00152.jpg


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## dovelass (Jun 21, 2006)

Hi Kim
I also have a dovecote and live in the UK.

I have 5 doves which are all rollers or tipplers as some people call them. They summersault backwards as they are flying!

I had mine homed in a net, like yours, for about 3 weeks then I simply took the net off and let them free.
At first they dissapeared for 24 hours, which worried me; but I think they were just getting their bearings because they came back to me after a day.

I origionally had 6 doves but a Sparrowhawk got one of them  . The remaining five (Ebb, Flo, Hyacinth, Indy and Jo), tend not to use the dovecote except for perching; but they are on my roof all day, flying around as they feel like it and always returning to my roof.

Indy is my latest bird, he is Ebb and Flo's baby and he was born in my dovecote 

Good luck with yours. You will find great joy in seeing them flying free I'm sure.

Pauline


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Your Doves look very like the feral flock of white doves that we have here.

Originally they belonged to the landlord of a pub, who adored them. He died, the dovecote was destroyed and the doves were left to fend for themselves.

They bred in the wild and there are about 80 of them now, I take them in when they are sick and imjured.

Their tails vary a lot, There are large pigeons with majestic fans, medium ones with a slight flare and tiny, pretty doves that look like dresden china and have really pretty fans to match.

However, none of them are agile or strong fliers so I would not think they would do well when confronted with a hawk.

Cynthia


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## Hillybean (Oct 30, 2005)

Thanks for the interesting link! 

Kims Babies, it sounds like you have some very neat birds!
I just love the picture of the babies. Thay're always so CUTE!
-hilly


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## pigeonpoo (Sep 16, 2005)

Hmm, George, I've added some photos of my garden fantails. The photos in your link look, to my uneducated eye, very much like my birds. Can you plaese explain the difference?


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*Syrian Fantails*



pigeonpoo said:


> Hmm, George, I've added some photos of my garden fantails. The photos in your link look, to my uneducated eye, very much like my birds. Can you plaese explain the difference?


HI PIGEONPOO, You ask a very good question and I will try to answer it as best I can. You have some very beautful SYRIAN FANTAILS and they look very much like the ESCAMPADISSA ROLLER .However looking at your pictures I see what looks like an abundance of tail feathers(rectrices) the SYRIAN FANTAIL has between 28 to 36 while the EACAMPADISSA has only 14 to 18. The weigh of these birds is also quite different SYRIAN between 15-16 ounces while the ESCAMPADISSA weighs 10-12 ounces. It is differcult to be sure by looking at pictures, one realy needs to have both birds in hand to be sure.Kind of like a bird in hand is worth two in the bush  LOL.I do hope that I have help you with this question. ...............GEORGE


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

I put a pic of each bird beside each other for comparison. You can see the difference in the number of tail feathers. 

http://lovebirdsloft.homestead.com/Escampadissabirds.html


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## pigeonpoo (Sep 16, 2005)

Thank you George.

Golly, and to think that I thought I had common old Garden Fantails!! 

I can definitely see a difference with the photos side by side. I don't know how much my birds weigh. They are definitely lighter than my racers but, I doubt they are as light as the Escampadissa Roller.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Renee,

Thank you for placing the pics side by side. That is very helpful in making the comparrison.


George,

Thank you for the continuing education you are giving us in regards to the ESCAMPADISSA rollers and the Syrian Fantails, and the other info. You are so generous to share your knowledge on the different pigeon breeds. I really enjoy your posts!


pigeonpoo,

Your pictures and birds are just lovely!


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## Kims babies (Oct 13, 2006)

Hi Pigeon Poo and everyone,

Your fantails are really stunning. They do look like mine except the tails on yours look much thicker, just like George said. Mine carry their tails the same and have long tails too but not as many feathers.

Looks like we both have special birds , I will get a picture of mine on top of the dove cote and post it so you can see ok. But be warned they have rolled in the new grit I bought with orange minerals in it and look filthy. Loved every minute of it while I cry'd in horror at the colour of my now dirty orange birds that were snow white like yours.


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

Lovebirds said:


> I put a pic of each bird beside each other for comparison. You can see the difference in the number of tail feathers.
> 
> http://lovebirdsloft.homestead.com/Escampadissabirds.html


 HI RENEE, Thanks for the pictures which show the tail section well.Those pictues also show a difference which I over looked that is in the way the wings are carried the Syrian carries his wings below the tail as all true fantails do,while the Escampadissa carries his above the tail this can be seen clearly in those pictures .   GEORGE


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Renee and George - you two are just the greatest! George, I don't know how you do it, time after time, but you really know our pigeons.

Pigeonpoo, your bird is so beautiful with that full tail. I am also envious of your location. That is a beautiful view of the hills and a town/city in the valley and your birds looking things over.

Hey Renee, how's the noise up your way with the NASCAR race going on?


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## Kims babies (Oct 13, 2006)

Hi George,

Just checked my birds, you are right, mine carry their wings ontop of their tails, Their wing feathers are also very long reached right to the end of their tails.

George, with my birds being Escampadissa Roller's, my chances of Spirit and Ice staying with me are slim don't you think? I can't bring myself to keep them in for good as they flew free before although I think they are still young. if my chicks turn out to be male and female and pair up, would they weaken the strain if they mated?


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## Kims babies (Oct 13, 2006)

Pigeon poo

You have a beautifull dove cote, did you make it yourself?


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## george simon (Feb 28, 2006)

*Selective Breeding*

There is one other thing I would like to add.These two birds are so much alike that I feel the breeders back hundreds of years ago took two different paths with these birds. The first group wanted fliers so they removed all those with to many tail feathers, while those that wanted a fantail type kept those with many tail feathers and they in turn got rid of those that did not have many tail feathers." SELECTIVE BREEDING"   GEORGE


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Lady Tarheel said:


> Renee and George - you two are just the greatest! George, I don't know how you do it, time after time, but you really know our pigeons.
> 
> Pigeonpoo, your bird is so beautiful with that full tail. I am also envious of your location. That is a beautiful view of the hills and a town/city in the valley and your birds looking things over.
> 
> Hey Renee, how's the noise up your way with the NASCAR race going on?


We're about 10 miles or so from the track so we don't hear it.


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## Kims babies (Oct 13, 2006)

Mind you george, I havent seen mine fly yet, They may be hopeless at flying yet.


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## pigeonpoo (Sep 16, 2005)

LOL NO! But, thanks anyway. My husband bought it, and two fantails, for me as a Silver Wedding present. Little did he know what he was starting!!  I now have a loft with twenty more white racing pigeons and am totally addicted! The dovecote birds are free to come and go as they wish and, strangely because I interact less with them, they are far tamer than my other birds. I can call them as I walk across the field and they fly to me for a peanut. My racing birds though are far more wary. I don't know if it's because I've to catch them more to basket and train or if it's just the temperaments of the different breeds.


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## Kims babies (Oct 13, 2006)

you have a lot more than 2 fantails now, did the chicks from the first 2 pair up then? with no problems? or did you buy more?

I asked my husband to make mine, then told him I wanted 2 doves to go in it. can't wait for the cage to be off it so i can enjoy mine as you do


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## pigeonpoo (Sep 16, 2005)

Yes, the brother and sister have paired up - I haven't let them hatch any eggs though.

I've been told to pair mother to son and father to daughter but, I hate to split the parents up as they are devoted to each other! I have enough guilt problems taking away the eggs and replacing them with plastic ones. Besides, the logistics of trying to re-pair in a dovecote are beyond me!


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## pigeonpoo (Sep 16, 2005)

I have to say that I was a little disappointed when I released my birds - they spend most of their time on my house roof! I guess they make for the highest point.

They are not as snowy white as they look in the photos. Although I give them a bath twice a week, they prefer to lounge around in the house gutters, splashing in the mud up there!

The young birds often join my racers when they are loft flying and it is very entertaining to watch them trying to keep up. Their parents are more lazy though - they potter around the lawn or sunbath on the house roof.

I do hope that you get lucky when you do decide to release them.


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