# OK, OK...NOT a Pigeon...but.....



## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Hi all. Granted, she's not a pigeon.

I dunno what she is...the obvious conclusion would be a blue jay...but really, that's only because she's, well....blue. Anyone gove me a definite ID on this bird ?

Found her while driving to pet food store...on sidelwalk, clearly in shock. I stopped the car and got out, and a guy came out of the nearest house, saying he had just heard a "thwump" sound.
So, we assumed she hit a window. 

Now here's the funny thing. Whenever I go to that store, I NEVER drive down this particular street. I just decided to today, for a change of pace....it is actually a less direct way to get there. 10 seconds after turning onto it....there she is. Makes one wonder.....

So, one wing is drooping. Will be taking her to avian vet come Monday. Cannot take her to Wildcare, our area wildlife facility, because unless the bird has a very simple, clean break....they just put the animal down (this I learned, unfortunately, by several first-hand accounts and finally after forcing a rather contentious conversation with their head vet).

So I started her on medacam and am keeping her warm and caged. May try some feeding later on when she looks less dazed. She is alert and can jump around (and BITE, too)...but the wing looks droopy.

OK, so...what have I here ? Yar, I can search blue bird images from now until eternity...but am gonna be lazy, and am hoping someone can give an ID


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## wolfwood (Jan 26, 2009)

I think you're right ... looks like either a Scrub Jay









or a Stellar Jay (but I've never actually seen either - - they don't live in New England).


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

It's a Scrub Jay. We have lot's of them here.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Beautiful! I agree that it's a Scrub Jay. What are you feeding it? While they do love peanuts, they are mostly insectivores.

Terry


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Jaye, I believe we are often "led" to find injured and sick birds. We have had the same thing happen. Hope the little jay does well. We don't have scrub jays here - our loss.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Thanks...I think the Scrub Jay definitely.

Ugh..insectivores.....I only have seed and such. Any thougts on feeding ? I was gonna do some formula...but maybe a bad idea if the bird has always eaten bugs (?) Just wanna get some food/water into her before Monday morning (vet). Should I try seed-popping ????

I think she's an adolescent, some feathers still seem baby-like.

Also noticed this AM one of her eyes is squinting...seems to have sight in it, but is definietly squinting. She's alert and active, and not at all happy to be here....but the wing is definitely injured.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

We have alot of them here to, they are smart birds. They eat grub worms from my yard, and will eat seed from my feeder when the need calls. They do love the peanuts too!


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## LUCKYT (Jan 17, 2009)

Well, i am sure it is not done in Today's rehab world, but i was able to raise several Jays, and robins on raw hamburger mixed with Egg yolk.. And added a Vit./Min. Supplement


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

I always use Science Diet Prescription diet a/d, fed with a dropper. And canned crickets and mealworms from the pet store. Have great luck with this combination.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

She does dig peanuts...also, at Charis suggestion tried some wet dog food morsels, and she ate some of those too. Also, peas boiled.

OK, am resting easier knowing she has eaten something at least. Thanks for the suggestions.....


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

They like cheese and grapes too. I think I forgot to tell you that.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Should I team that up with a nice, crisp Reisling and some fresh crusty baguette ??????


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Jaye said:


> Should I team that up with a nice, crisp Reisling and some fresh crusty baguette ??????



Would be GREAT for you...take the edge off...relax...CHEERS!!

Looking forward to updates!!

Love, Hugs and Scritches

Shi


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Jaye said:


> Should I team that up with a nice, crisp Reisling and some fresh crusty baguette ??????


LOL...only if the Reisling was bottled in California!


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Seriously now...how is the SJ doing?


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

*BAD news....*

Dammit. I had him x-rayed at my avian vet today...prognosis for recovering flight is poor.

Both radius and ulna are broken, in a way which would require a pin to properly heal. But even that could be done with surgery.

The other issue is it is also all dislocated at the elbow from the humerus...a big dislocation, Dr. said over 1/4"...meaning that the fluid sac which protects the joint is probably punctured...meaning, even if they reset the dislocation, there would be no fluid sac on the reset joint....



So, in her opinion, the likelihood of it healing (after surgery to repair all of the maladies) to the ability to fly again is unlikely, thus he wouldn' be releasable. She said it's likely a he, and also is an adult.

We are fortunate to have an avian/reptile/small mammal hospital in the vicinity which isn't all cut-and-dry when it comes to treating.... a lotta places at this point would have just said "we have to put it down", and insisted on it; but they are gonna splint up the wing and let me take him home. Tom'w the radiologist is coming in on rounds and will take a look at the x-ray and see if his interpretation is any different (better).

That is where we left it. I am gonna pick him up now. I don't really know what to do....

help........!?

Thoughts ? 

The 2 schools of thought here are the straight-up conventional wildlife school which says: if he cannot be released back into the wild where he came from, he needs to be put down

vs.

his injury is not terminal/mortal....and he has ended up in you care, not someone else's...so, doesn't he deserve an alternative life ? And can't one be provided or located which still provides a quality of life ?

I really don't wanna put him down. I don't think we crossed each others' path for it to end like that.....but I don't know if I am just being selfish....


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

Another needy bird has found you! Those jays are smart indeed. You even share the same handle.  I would say take it a day at a time from here. Maybe try to get some other rehabbers ideas on how to treat it? Possibly starting a new thread or changing the title might get more Other Bird rehabbers lol. Keep us posted.


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Hi Jaye,

I found a baby corvid at Christmas time (Scrub Jays are corvids, but the bird I found was not a Jay), and it was hard to find good, detailed information about caring for this type of bird. I kind of ambled around for a while, talking to local vets and rehabbers, but noone really knew a lot and I was given a lot of poor and conflicting advice (as it turns out)

I eventually found a `corvid' Yahoo group by typing in `yahoo groups, crows' into google. These people know a LOT about jays, crows, and ravens (and plenty of other things). Its likely that you could find someone willing to take in your Jay as a companion for another disabled Jay. These birds ache for companionship, so your little one could prove t be very valuable to someone and their Jay.

If you need more info, let me know. Please don't have it killed- there are a lot of options for it as a flightless bird.


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## karijo (Apr 11, 2006)

Jaye said:


> The 2 schools of thought here are the straight-up conventional wildlife school which says: if he cannot be released back into the wild where he came from, he needs to be put down
> [/COLOR]


I've done wildlife rescue and rehab since I was a teenager... have never worked with any other rehabber who put an animal down who could potentially live out a full life in the safety of a sanctuary or rehabber's care. If it's simply that he won't fly again but could otherwise be mobile (by foot), then I think he deserves a chance at a long healthy life under someone's care who is able to provide him with a safe and suitable environment. I can't count the "handicapped" critters I've seen go on to live long happy lives. 

I think it would be a terrible shame to put him down.

Best of luck to you and the little scrubbie.
I hope you can keep him, or find someone who can.

I think he, being simply flightless, has an excellent chance at adjusting quite well to a "new life". As for feed, pet stores sell wax worms which a nice for jays, also kitten or small bites puppy kibble food are often accepted by jays - as are fruit, bits of meat, nuts, seeds, baby mice (ok gross, I know, but we used to buy frozen "pinkies" to feed them and other omnivorous birds), and eggs.


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## Brummie (Feb 16, 2009)

maryjane said:


> Another needy bird has found you! Those jays are smart indeed. You even share the same handle.  I would say take it a day at a time from here. Maybe try to get some other rehabbers ideas on how to treat it? Possibly starting a new thread or changing the title might get more Other Bird rehabbers lol. Keep us posted.


I wish I could help more. Jay's are one of the most intelligent bird's in America.
I wished you lived closer,we have two sanctuarie's in the Chicago area for injured bird's...
By visiting the sanctuarie, I've found out that Jay's are fighter's.They don't give up much, especialy life. 
I guess all I'm saying is, you give him the care he need's. And he will be a friend for life


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Thanks, B and K. I have pretty much decided at this point that I am NOT gonna put him down. We have a slew of Ravens in the area (I live 50 yards away from the park) and I have also read a lot about Corvid intelligence.

I cannot put him down, although, again, the 'pressure' from the current experts is telling me to do just that (I even spoe to a woman in Soth Bay who rehabs Scrubjays specifically, and she is also of the ilk that "they are wild birds, so if they cannot make it in the wild, the best thing you can do for them is put them down").

For all of the reasons Karijo mentions, that just seems a very severe, polar extreme point of view to me. My particular opinion is, if the injury is so severe that it is terminal, or it would really make the animal's life so compromised that major quality of life would be really taken away from it, then I have no qualms. But I dunno if this situation bears that. Unfortunately, as I mentioned....the 2 closest Wildlife rehab places do just that (put 'em down fast)...which is why I now take injured birds directly to my avian vet (on my dollar ~ or hundreds of dollars, I should say)...because I have had 4 birds in a row put down which could have been treated and VERY LIKELY re-released successfully.

So...I am kinda formulating a plan, here...but I gotta think it out. My problem is, possibility I may be be moving to Hawaii next year, or two....and while I CAN take my Parrots w/ medical paperwork...I do not think I can take a Scrub Jay in, legally (unless I dye his feathers black and his legs orange, call him a Mynah, then pay off a vet to write up papers as so ) 

Yes, my mind works in scary ways, oftentimes....

So, I doubt I can give him a permanent home...


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Hawaii!!!
That's a different time zone!!!


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Hi Jaye!

Bella F's post sounds like excellent advice! Have you PMed Bella yet?

Hope all works out!!

Your Scrubbie is adorable and deserves a chance. 

Sending all our Best with Love, Hugs and Scritches

Shi


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

As you know, Jaye, I completely agree that putting him down is not the answer, he is such a little fighter. I am always amazed at our "laws" and "legal stuff" that make it so hard to rehab animals. "Oh, well, if it can't be 100% healthy and back out in the wild, let's kill it!"  I am familiar with Wildcare and unfortunately you are correct in that they do put down unreleasables.  If it was a pigeon and "legally" we are allowed to treat it, fixing it up would be the next step. Hopefully down the line we will find a rehabber with other jays to take him in; _something_ will come up!! Has the vet given you any idea of what the bill might be for this procedure? I know you just got done caring for Condorito (who is currently sitting out in the sun with a wing stretched out ). Keep us posted!


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Hi Jaye,

I sent some info to you, I hope it helps!


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Yes, thanks. I will keep y'all posted...any further suggestions appreciated.


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## wolfwood (Jan 26, 2009)

I wish he could travel .... (to NH) ....

Good luck, Jaye!


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## Ivor (May 12, 2008)

HAWAII!!!!! I will miss you a lot!! 

I hope you find a home for that little guy, and let us know what happen.

Ivette


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Wolfwood, quite honestly, at this point, I would almost be willing to bring him there.

I am getting nowhere with finding this guy a home. I also feel that his wing, in it's current state still untreated, should have something done to it. Problem is, I do not think my avian vet would do that unless I came to her with a well-formulated plan as to where the bird is going afterwards (i.e., somewhat understandably, a professional vet might decline a procedure on a wild bird given the knowledge that the client intends to keep it, rather than place it someplace licensed).

I am in a bind. Feel like I need to come up w/ something.

Bella, thus far the corvid group on yahoo has not replied to my request to join. Are you a member ? Could you put up a posting for me if you are alread "in" that group ? (I will PM you as well)

Felt bad for the guy yesterday so I let him out of the cage. He's a good hopper, can get around the room and he seemed quite glad to have some "out" time. But that wing is still draggin' (understandably), although doesn't seem to be causing him a lotta pain (although that could be the daily dose of medicam talkin').


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## Bella_F (Nov 29, 2008)

Hi Jaye! Please PM me the location if you can.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

*Update*

He is doing OK. Quite a little sprite. I have taken to letting him out of the cage 1x/day in my room, just so he can strecth his legs and not get so bored. They are hoppers ! he likes jumping up onto my Parrot's playstands in there.

Long talk w/ avian vet yesterday...I had asked whether or not she felt ANY sort of procedure on the wing could be done; regardless of whether or not he would ever fly again, but just to stabilize and keep it solid. I have convinced her my intent is to place him at a licensed rehab/sanctuary center which accepts unreleasables.

Her opinion was that it wouldn't be worth the risks to operate; even after corrective procedures on the ulna and radius, he would still be left with a bum wing which couldn't function. So she said they should splint it up for 6 weeks...the bone break will heal and grow back together; and scar tissue will form to fill in the dislocation. So it will structurally stabilize that area, although, again, no flight.

I can keep him for a bit, but really need to find him a safe place for unreleasables, some place to keep him more stimulated....


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## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

I think it might be a long shot, but I know someone who works with animals in the Bay Area and I can ask her if she has any ideas. How far would you be able to travel?

Jennifer


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

How is this guy doing??

EDIT: Oh, George, I was just informed that the little guy didn't make it. I was really hoping your were quietly finding him a home somewhere and planning to surprise us. I'm really sorry to hear that, I know you did your absolute best.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Thanks...yes....I am really broken up about it, he just was gone in less than 24hrs....over the long weekend, no vets open....


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