# Few Pigeon Questions...



## kirktrix (Jan 12, 2007)

Good day,

Here are some of my question regarding my pigeons. I really need some help or advice and sorry for my bad English.

1. When i throw my pigeons why is that they don't fly together? Is there any methods i will do?

2. When i let them out from their loft they just go to our roof and sit there they don't fly. How can i make them fly?

3. Is it true that putting a red flag on the top of our roof will make my pigeons recognize it in the distance so that they will comeback more faster?

Thank you in advance....


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## abisai (Jan 30, 2007)

Hello . . . I'll attempt to give you the best answers to your questions.

Are they Homing pigeons?

They will get used to flying together . . .give them time.

If they have eaten they will lie arond and enjoy the scenery.

Toss them from down the road they'll fly back.

Pigeons have good eyes . . they know where their coop is - red flag will make it clearer I guess . . . but will probrobly spook other birds that may want to fly back with them.

Take your time and enjoy your progress and your birds.
AC


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## 1pigeon (Apr 5, 2006)

HI
1..If there are young birds and just have loft fly the will fly in every directions after 3 weeks they will fly together.

2..Again if they are young birds and just coming out of the loft they will do that for a week or two and then they will take off on there own.But if there are old birds that have some loft fly i can't answer .

3..I don't think red flag will help pigeons recognize the distance at all.I thing they recognize the distance and know the way home(some time from 600 miles) is IN THERE HEAD.And to make them come home faster there have a few motivation methods that you can find in this site.


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## kirktrix (Jan 12, 2007)

abisai said:


> Hello . . . I'll attempt to give you the best answers to your questions.
> 
> Are they Homing pigeons?


 Actually i don't know.. I have this bird for almost a year.. and i don't have time to take care of them last time because of my work.. My father is the one that take care of them but he just feed them everyday..But now i want to train and take care of them..
I will post some picture of my bird i hope u will tell me if it is a homing pigeons.


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## kirktrix (Jan 12, 2007)

Here are some of my pigeons Picture:


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## relofts (Apr 8, 2004)

Kirktrix,

I have a couple more questions for you.
Did you raise these birds yourself or get them from someone else?
It appears there are bands on some of the birds, what are the bands on them?
Are you familiar with any of the local clubs in your area or pigeon fanciers?

From your pictures they could be homers but they appear a little on the small side or you have large hands one of the two.
Also what kind of diet do you have them on and what type of loft do you have, it looks like dirt floors in a couple of the pictures? 
What type of release do you have and trapping system?

The breast bones on the birds appear to be sharp to me which is saying these birds are not ready really for any training, you may need to setup a system for the birds for medicating, worming, vitamins, feed, immunizing etc... They need to be in condition in order to have birds that want to get out and fly, their diet is very important for birds that are to be active. I also noticed in the one picture with the three birds there is a white bird in the picture, well the one that looks like a dark check it's feathers appear to be not quite right which is signs of a possible health condition as well, also the Blue check in the bottom right corner his waddle looks discolored and not white, could be the photo but if not that is a sign of a respiratory issue, you really need to know the birds prior to training them, do you have prior experience with pigeons?

Please provide more information on your birds and what exactly you are doing with them for all the above.

Ellen


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## kirktrix (Jan 12, 2007)

relofts said:


> Kirktrix,
> 
> I have a couple more questions for you.
> Did you raise these birds yourself or get them from someone else?
> ...


Ok here are my answer:
All the pigeons that i post are raised by my father. However some of those are still young. Actually its my pigeon but when i worked abroad for 1 and half years my father are the one that take care of it. He don't free them from their loft. he just feed them. When i back home last month i started to train and let them fly I only pick young birds to fly because of adults birds are not used to fly and if i let them free i think they will not comeback.

The bands are just homemade bands that is not a true pigeon bands. and i am not a member of any clubs here.

When i started in pigeons couple of years its just 6 pairs but now it become 50 Pcs my father just let them breed.. so that my loft is dirty and overcrowded. Some of my birds are not well. 

I am planning to change the egg with boiled egg so that it will stop breeding for a month. and i will sell and give some of my birds so that i can maintain the health of other birds that i will stay. my loft is too small for 50 pcs. i can't build another loft because of my house is so little in space.


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## Grim (Jul 28, 2007)

The birds look small to me as well. I can not hold my male homing pigeons with one hand. I do not have small hands either. Just make sure your feeding them a good diet such as a good quality grain and dried peas. Also make sure all the birds are getting enough to eat and an overcrowded loft is a bad thing it's good to see you are going to cut back some.

Less birds will be easier for you to take care of, and easier for you to know if any birds become sick because you will be more familiar with them.


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## relofts (Apr 8, 2004)

Do you have medication that you can treat the birds with, the birds need to feel good in order to feel like flying, this would be your first step is to get them well, clean your loft up so not to keep the illness going, and don't give sick birds to other people as this will only spread the illness to other's.

I and other's don't mind advising you but we need you to get the birds in health first, please advise on what you have for medication available to treat the birds with, and also advise on what you are feeding the birds.

Ellen


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## kirktrix (Jan 12, 2007)

I don't have any medication for my birds.. In the pictures what do u think is their sickness?.. because i don't notice any disease.. I only notice about their health some of my pigeons are so thin. I will give them vitamins. About their feeds i gave them a mix up of grain they call it nutricon. and i mix up with crack corn and saff flower. It is ok?


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

You might want to look into getting some of the multi-purpose products from a pigeon supply house that can treat several possible problems at once. Here is a link that contains the contact information for a couple of distributors in the Philippines: http://www.vetafarm.com.au/distributors.asp
I'm hoping these distributors will also carry the medications you need in addition to the general health products.

There are also a number of US and UK pigeon supply companies that should be able to ship to you if the local distributors do not have the products needed.

Terry


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## relofts (Apr 8, 2004)

What I think from the picture is the birds need treated for worms, they need to be treated for cocci, paratyphoid, respiratory and it would not hurt to treat them for canker. The birds breast bone (keel) is sticking out which is possibly from the worms but is a sign of emaciation which is not good, the waddle and Ceres are discolored so this is a sign of respiratory which could be from inadequate ventilation and the dirt floor or a dirty loft as well. The feathers on the one bird that I can see that looks young in the background look rough and not growing in properly and doesn't have a shine to them, which could be a sign of paratyphoid if there are mouse or rat droppings in there the birds can easily get from that if ingesting any.

I am including some links for you and also under each if you scroll down you will see links for medication needed

I am going to suggest to you to get the 5 in 1 as it will take care of most things you need to treat your birds with here is a link for it http://www.jedds.com/ProductDetail.asp?MainCategoryID=77&SubCategoryID=744&ProductID=3044 

I contacted Jedds regarding shipping the 5 in 1 to you and they said the cost of the product which is $45 US and $12 for shipping for just that, there is also some winsmore you can find at the following link http://www.jedds.com/ProductDetail.asp?MainCategoryID=53&SubCategoryID=1060&ProductID=2951 which is a good start for vitamins. If you are able to go to the links and then click the drop down for the product and then click add to shopping bag, then click for Philippines it will then give you a total, you can put in a credit card to pay for it, or I called them and they said you can also send a money order to them with what you need and you can get the prices by doing the above. You need to get the medication started as soon as possible, if there is some place there you can get the medication then that is fine also, Jedds did say the ship to the Philippines frequently.

The feed you are giving with the additional safflower if it is at least a 14 to 16percent protein should be OK, although the cracked corn is not something that I feed my pigeons, I usually use popcorn mix or small dent corn mix and make sure that they have a dry clean grit. 

I know this seems like a lot but in order to do right by your pigeons you really need to provide the treatments and shelter that is needed for them, you will find your birds are much more active when they feel better.

Here are some links that maybe helpful to you as well:

Canker - http://www.siegelpigeons.com/asked-canker.html
Cocci - http://www.siegelpigeons.com/asked-coccidiosis.html
E coli - http://www.siegelpigeons.com/asked-ecoli.html
Paratyphoid - http://www.siegelpigeons.com/asked-paratyphoid.html
Respiratory - http://www.siegelpigeons.com/asked-respiratory.html
Worms - http://www.siegelpigeons.com/asked-worms.html
Vitamins - http://www.siegelpigeons.com/asked-vitamins.html
Medicating - http://www.siegelpigeons.com/asked-meds.html
Malaria - http://www.siegelpigeons.com/asked-malaria.html
Parasites external - http://www.siegelpigeons.com/asked-external.html
Lots of Good Information scroll down to see the questions - http://www.siegelpigeons.com/asked.html

Pigeon Definitions - http://desmoore.tripod.com/id29.html

Performance Suggestions - http://www.jedds.com/MySolution/PerformanceAide.asp


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## kirktrix (Jan 12, 2007)

Thanks for the advice and links. I hope i can do all the things that i needed to maintain the health of my birds... Thanks again.


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## relofts (Apr 8, 2004)

kirktrix, 

Please do keep us advised of what your plan is and what type of treatment you are providing so that we can keep up with what is going on as well as to provide additional information as needed on your birds. 

Everyone here is happy to assist you and help however we can but we need you to keep us updated on how things are going so that we know what to do to help you next. We may move our discussion over to one of the Health threads while we work through the issues as there are many experienced members that are on all times of the day that can also jump in and help out with advise for you as well.

Will watch for any updates from you so we can keep up with what is going on, until the meds arrive go ahead and soak a couple of cloves of garlic in a gallon of water and give them that for a day, then follow up with a mixture of honey and lemon water, mix about a tablespoon of honey with a teaspoon of lemon to a gallon of water this will help to cleanse the blood. Continue the extra safflower at a ration of 25% safflower to 75% feed mixture, make sure that there is enough feed there that all the birds are getting fed, you can tell this by putting your feed in the feeder and watch when most the birds have left the feeder and went for water and there is still a few picking at the feed and there is not much feed left then you know you have it right.

Ellen


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## kirktrix (Jan 12, 2007)

Ok i will follow your advise regarding the garlic, lemon and honey. about the medication i will find some pigeon shop to buy it. sorry but i can't afford the 5 in 1 treatment Vita king i will buy some alternative here. I will update all of you about my pigeons. I will start cleaning my loft when the rains stops. Because this week we have typhoon in our country. Thanks again.


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## relofts (Apr 8, 2004)

kirktrix,

OK, sorry to hear about your weather, hope all is well there for you.

I suggest that you try to find the following medications.

- Amprolium - for coccidiosis
- Ridzol-S - for canker
- Tylosine (Tylan) - for respiratory infections
- Furaltadone - for Paratyphoid and E-Coli
- Levamisol - for worms
- Vita-Pro Combo - a combination of probiotics (helpful bacteria builder), electrolytes, amino acids and vitamins.

I am glad to hear that you are going to get the loft taken care of as quickly as possible, you can make a solution of 1/4 cup of bleach to 2 1/2 gallons of water and spray it around the loft to disinfect it, please try not to spray it on the birds, you can wipe down or spray perches and nest box areas as well, and if it is possible to put something on the floors to keep the birds out of the dirt this will also help, the birds pickup lots of things from the dirt which includes the worms and diseases, and the dirt works to soak in the excreted droppings which will continue to carry the bacteria that you are trying to get rid of.

Looking forward to updates.

Ellen


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## richardtheman (Jul 24, 2007)

relofts said:


> kirktrix,
> 
> OK, sorry to hear about your weather, hope all is well there for you.
> 
> ...



Wow, Ellen.. I will try that solution. Do I put less bleach with less water? Does that actually kill of all the germs?


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

Do a proportional dilution or just add the 1/4 cup bleach to less water. Personally, I don't think that a stronger solution would hurt but straight bleach is "overkill", plus could react w/bare concrete. 
Bleach is a great disinfectant. I'd choose it any day over the anti-bacterial and anti-germecial products out there. It's cheap and as far as I know, there haven't been reports of bacteria and viruses mutating to become chlorine-tolerant.


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## relofts (Apr 8, 2004)

I am not sure of his ventilation and this makes a big difference in how much bleach you use, I suspect the loft to be pretty closed up. Maybe at some point kirktrix can send a picture of the outside of his loft to us also. If we have poor ventilation and the bleach is to strong we can cause injury to the birds, we want to becareful here until we know what exactly we have going on and the exact conditions we are dealing with. I believe to lean on the side of caution for right now is the best thing to do, we will have him and his birds in prime condition in no time and he will be showing everyone what pigeons are really about there in his area, others in his area will be coming to him for advise when they see how well conditioned his birds are after all his hard work.

I have also mixed it even stronger at 1/2 cup to 1 cup per 2 gallons of water, my lofts are different with lots of ventilation and I am trying to be cautious of what I have him do as to not do harm to the birds with to much and possible lack of good ventilation, their area is known for lots of humidity and weather conditions which means that some fanciers in the area try to keep the birds more protected in closed up conditions, this is true to a point but what is better is to setup your ventilation system so that it is on the sides away from the direction of the wind, also to have the birds up off the ground with floor ventilation and the ground has time to dry out, they have great weather also there but not always and conditions are very different there then in the USA where we have access to many more things.

Ellen


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## relofts (Apr 8, 2004)

flitsnowzoom,

You are correct bleach is inexpensive, it is a great disinfectant, and it is easily accessed in the Phillipines, some of the other agents work well but may not be available where he is located, I use it all the time also.

Ellen


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## richardtheman (Jul 24, 2007)

relofts said:


> I am not sure of his ventilation and this makes a big difference in how much bleach you use, I suspect the loft to be pretty closed up. Maybe at some point kirktrix can send a picture of the outside of his loft to us also. If we have poor ventilation and the bleach is to strong we can cause injury to the birds, we want to becareful here until we know what exactly we have going on and the exact conditions we are dealing with. I believe to lean on the side of caution for right now is the best thing to do, we will have him and his birds in prime condition in no time and he will be showing everyone what pigeons are really about there in his area, others in his area will be coming to him for advise when they see how well conditioned his birds are after all his hard work.
> 
> I have also mixed it even stronger at 1/2 cup to 1 cup per 2 gallons of water, my lofts are different with lots of ventilation and I am trying to be cautious of what I have him do as to not do harm to the birds with to much and possible lack of good ventilation, their area is known for lots of humidity and weather conditions which means that some fanciers in the area try to keep the birds more protected in closed up conditions, this is true to a point but what is better is to setup your ventilation system so that it is on the sides away from the direction of the wind, also to have the birds up off the ground with floor ventilation and the ground has time to dry out, they have great weather also there but not always and conditions are very different there then in the USA where we have access to many more things.
> 
> Ellen


I have excellent ventilation... I will post a pic pf my coop. does this mean I can use many?


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## richardtheman (Jul 24, 2007)

You can go there to see the pix.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=21869


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## relofts (Apr 8, 2004)

Richard,

Your ventilation is very good it appears, you could use a stronger solution but is it necessary is the question now, with your loft being so high up your floors should be very dry, the droppings should be great unless you have a problem that you have picked up someplace, in your case as preventative I would when doing your loft cleaning just use a 1/4 to 1/2 cup bleach to 1 gallon of water put it in a spray bottle and spray it, DO NOT SPRAY your birds, if there is a chance of getting it on your birds dilute it down further. Bleach is a good disinfectant as stated but there is a point when more really doesn't do any better.

Ellen


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## richardtheman (Jul 24, 2007)

relofts said:


> Richard,
> 
> Your ventilation is very good it appears, you could use a stronger solution but is it necessary is the question now, with your loft being so high up your floors should be very dry, the droppings should be great unless you have a problem that you have picked up someplace, in your case as preventative I would when doing your loft cleaning just use a 1/4 to 1/2 cup bleach to 1 gallon of water put it in a spray bottle and spray it, DO NOT SPRAY your birds, if there is a chance of getting it on your birds dilute it down further. Bleach is a good disinfectant as stated but there is a point when more really doesn't do any better.
> 
> Ellen


I have a few slits or hole son the bottom that resembles the body. Many times the droppings fall on the ground through the cracks. I have a scraper where I usually scrape and dump all the droppings to the ground. So, I try to keep it clean. I intend to add an aviary soon. I will try to make the solution and spray the ground. I am so happy you gave me this info because before I would only scrape and hose down with water from time to time. I know know best. If seeds fall on the ground and they eat it after I have sprayed, is it safe?


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## relofts (Apr 8, 2004)

The seeds will dry and many people including my husband will put a cap of bleach in the water jugs (gallon size) to keep them from passing things back and fourth due to the way they gulp and dribble back into the water, but you never want to have bleach in the water jug when medicating, he also will soak our jugs in bleach water solution and then just fills them with fresh water without rinsing them. In our area sometimes I even can taste a chlorine taste in our drinking water also.

Have you ever considered putting sheet metal or plastic sheets down for the droppings to be collected into, you can even frame it in if you want and you can put wire mesh over it to keep the birds from playing in it and slide it out and dump it.

Ellen


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## kirktrix (Jan 12, 2007)

Good day,

Here is the picture of my loft. It is small and a little dirty i will start cleaning it today, Because the rains stops and hopefully we have a good weather today and tomorrow. and advice me using bleach how many cups do i need here.


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## kirktrix (Jan 12, 2007)

One more question:

How can i eliminate this bugs and worms? they are everywhere in my lofts.


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## relofts (Apr 8, 2004)

Kirktrix,

For a insecticide to use Pyrethren or pyrethrum, Permectrin are all ok to use around the birds.

I would still stay with 1/4 cup of bleach to 2 1/2 gallons of water.

Ellen


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## relofts (Apr 8, 2004)

The best thing you can do is to get the birds out for an hour and hit the floor heavy with a disinfectant, then if you can do it move the birds to one side create a section there and saturate the empty section with water and then get some bags of cement and spread around and then mist the cement once you have it smoothed out and keep the birds out over night if possible and it will create a thin cement floor and will keep the bugs out and you will be able to keep the loft much cleaner.

Ellen


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## kirktrix (Jan 12, 2007)

Good day, 

Ok that's what I'm thinking. i will cement the floor. Thank you very much for your time.

Here are some more question:

What is the best time to feed my birds?

How long i will soak the clove of garlic to the water before i will give it to the birds?

It is ok to use insecticide aerosol like Baygon or Bay because there also some cockroaches?

I want to paint my loft do you think the smell of the paint is ok for the birds?

It is ok to use Philippine calamansi instead of lemon? because we don't have lemon here..  

Sorry for so many questions i just want to make my birds healthy and active. Thanks much


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## relofts (Apr 8, 2004)

kirktrix said:


> Ok that's what I'm thinking. i will cement the floor. Thank you very much for your time.


That is great news, I think you will find it will be much better for your birds, it will be cleaner, easier for you to keep it clean, and you will have far less problems with bugs, mice, and other unwanted creatures in your loft.




kirktrix said:


> What is the best time to feed my birds?


For right now I would split up your feedings morning and night so the birds have plenty of nutrition until they get the weight back on, once we get them back up to weight we will change that, you will notice that once they start feeling better they will also take in less feed, right now it is just important to get them what they need to build up some reserve, you also want to make sure that you don't put to much that they are throughing it on the ground attracting mice and bugs, once the feeding is done there should only be a few pieces of grain left, if needed you can pull the feeders out after they have all finished, if a little extra weight is put on that is ok because once they are ready to train the fats will be turned into muscle.

Once your floor is finished we will make a small adjustment to the front of your loft so you can have a settling cage there, doesn't have to take up much room, just so the birds can get out and learn to trap back in and know their location, but that will be after you get the floor done.



kirktrix said:


> How long i will soak the clove of garlic to the water before i will give it to the birds?


I usually put the 2 cloves in for over night and then give it to them in the morning, they will learn to really like it.



kirktrix said:


> It is ok to use insecticide aerosol like Baygon or Bay because there also some cockroaches?


Baygon Green provides safe protection against Crawling and Flying insects with fast knock down and long lasting action. Baygon Green acts reliably on cockroaches, mosquitoes, flies, ants, fleas, and other pates in households. Due to its specific combination of the active ingredients Propoxur, Cyfluthrin and Dichlorvos, which have been developed by Bayer, Baygon Green has a quick knockdown and high efficacy against crawling insects for up to 2 weeks. *Its specific action on insects is safe for both human and pets under proper conditions of use.* Make sure you adhere to the proper conditions if you use this product.

Baygon - The pyrethroids used are exceptionally specific, and affect insects most. They act very quickly and intensively on insects' nervous systems, and induce strong reactions ranging from temporary paralysis up to death, depending on the rate and type of pyrethroids. Warm-blooded animals such as humans and other mammals react in a completely different way. They absorb pyrethroids at very low rates and degrade them within a short time. For this reason, the toxic action on warm-blooded creatures is 1,000 to 10,000 times lower than on insects. *Again Make sure you adhere to the proper conditions if you use this product.*

Pyrethren or pyrethrum is an insecticide made of chrysanthemum flowers, it biodegrades within two hours of application.

Permectrin is an all natural insect killer for control of all avian insects including the stubborn pigeon fly. Great for use around the cage or aviary for control of any crawling insects like ants, spiders, etc.



kirktrix said:


> I want to paint my loft do you think the smell of the paint is ok for the birds?


For right now let's just deal with the cleaning and getting the birds fixed up, when you are ready to paint you can get a non toxic, non lead based paint to use, they have paints that are available for this.



kirktrix said:


> It is ok to use Philippine calamansi instead of lemon? because we don't have lemon here..


I read up on the Calamansi and they sound great, I may go get me a tree to plant here, it appears they are slightly different but close, I found nothing about any toxicity with pigeons or birds with my research so it appears safe to use.



kirktrix said:


> Sorry for so many questions i just want to make my birds healthy and active. Thanks much


That is ok, I am very glad to hear that, we want to see the same happen for you and your birds, we find that people enjoy their birds much more when the birds are in healthy conditions. When we are done here you can go into advising other's in your area on how to setup for healthy active birds and you will be able to recognize many things with pigeons I am hoping.  

Ellen


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

kirktrix said:


> Good day,
> 
> Ok that's what I'm thinking. i will cement the floor. Thank you very much for your time.
> 
> ...


When you go to paint the loft make sure you get a low-VOC (volatile organic compounds) paint. They are readily available and are much better for you (the painter), the birds, and the environment. They may cost a $ or 2 more, but it's not significant unless your loft is the size of the TajMahal  (for some reason, I can't see your pictures). 

On the cement. If you do cement your loft, consider sealing it with some kind of sealer to keep the floor from being porous and to eliminate any possible chemical reactions with the bleach. You are using a dilute solution of bleach, not a problem, but if you should spill straight bleach onto the floor, you can create chlorine gas (not a good thing for living things to breathe -- I know, having had a few snootfuls (occupational hazard)).


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## kirktrix (Jan 12, 2007)

Good day,

Thanks for answering all my question. I started putting cement on some portion of my loft maybe tomorrow we will finish it.

Thanks for all your advice. And i hope someday i can share it to others...


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## Grim (Jul 28, 2007)

Thank you for improving your birds condition and actually trying to improve their health. That is great news and best of luck to you!


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## relofts (Apr 8, 2004)

kirktrix said:


> Good day,
> 
> Thanks for answering all my question. I started putting cement on some portion of my loft maybe tomorrow we will finish it.
> 
> Thanks for all your advice. And i hope someday i can share it to others...


Kirktrix,

You are very welcome, I am glad that we are able to assist you. I know you will see a big difference in your birds soon, please keep us updated on how things are going. Please when you get a chance let us know what types of medication you were able to find there.

Ellen


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