# Pros and cons on using medicated pellets



## orock (Mar 28, 2011)

I wanted to try using medicated pellets once a week this young bird season. Want to weigh out PT members thoughts.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

why? Are you're birds always sick?. over use of antibiotic meds is what makes things worse by causing resistant strains of bacteria.. I think it is a bad idea.

with good husbandtry and not over crowding, you're birds should be healthy.


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## piegonsrock (Aug 14, 2009)

it can take some time BC they aren't used to it so you will have to gradually put it in with the seed. if you take them off seed completely they wont see the pellets as food and may starve.


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

You don't want your birds to develop a dependency on them. Reminds me of a fellow club guy who has an infirmary for his birds. There's always a patient or two in there.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Medicine should only be used for the ill. (Except vaccines, then dose according to the schedule of vaccination for immunity.)


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

orock said:


> I wanted to try using medicated pellets once a week this young bird season. Want to weigh out PT members thoughts.


 Gee, as hard as I try, I can't see the value in a medicated pellet other then for a commercial chicken or turkey farm, where they can use any number of 50 lb bags for large flock treatment for the prescribed number of days. I'm thinking the medications in the pellet may not be your best choice either, you also would have it laying around for extended period of time, am thinking out loud your pigeons are better off getting flock treatment in water, and when medication is stored, in refrigerator at proper temp., but maybe it is only a biased preference ?


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Libis said:


> Medicine should only be used for the ill. (Except vaccines, then dose according to the schedule of vaccination for immunity.)


 I like your thinking, but for competitive pigeon racers, the reponse to your statement may be yes/no not exactly. There are avian vets that do recommend a course of treatments during the 8-10 week racing season. As an example : Dr Colin Walker 

http://www.auspigeonco.com.au/

Summary 
• Turbosole for 2 days every 2 - 3 weeks, usually Monday and Tuesday 

• Doxy-T for 2 - 3 days every 3 weeks, usually Sunday, Monday and sometimes Tuesday 

• Probac - 
• for 24 hours after Doxy-T; 
• when droppings become green or watery; if there is no response, droppings will need microscopic analysis; and 
• considered for use on Wednesday and Sunday as a conditioning agent 

• Seed oils and yeasts added to food on any day of week, based on birds' condition 

• Water-soluble multivitamin in water is best given by itself and can be given 1 day per week on spare days, e.g. Friday 

• Dropping analysis every 1 - 3 weeks. Other treatments, if needed, e.g. for Coccidia and worms, can be given on the third blank week. 

This is a good basic program and in most lofts will keep the birds healthy and competitive through the entire season. It must be appreciated, however, that there are many variables affecting health through the season and so modifications to this are sometimes necessary depending on events arising. It is a long season and health varies with time and the change of weather that occurs from the start to the end of the season. Problems that may be present early in the season often disappear as the birds get older, their immunity rises and the weather gets warmer so that the need for certain medications falls away. This occurs with such problems as E. coli. At other times, there can be a sudden drastic change in the loft's health status necessitating a change in health management, eg the introduction of a new Mycoplasma strain.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> I like your thinking, but for competitive pigeon racers, the reponse to your statement may be yes/no not exactly. There are avian vets that do recommend a course of treatments during the 8-10 week racing season. As an example : Dr Colin Walker
> 
> http://www.auspigeonco.com.au/
> 
> ...


What is the point in giving all this medicine if you're birds are healthy?, is sickness that rampant in the rasing hobbie? in comparison, we send our kids off to day care and they do end up picking up illnesses, ..so why is'nt this medicine regiment approch geared towards humans the same way? we have to have a prescrip for it for good reasons I have always thought. with the resitant bacteria lurking out there, does this medicating for just in case approch going to be good for racing and fighting disease in the long run?


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

spirit wings said:


> What is the point in giving all this medicine if you're birds are healthy?, is sickness that rampant in the rasing hobbie? in comparison, we send our kids off to day care and they do end up picking up illnesses, ..so why is'nt this medicine regiment approch geared towards humans the same way? we have to have a precrip for it for good reasons I have always thought. with the resitant bacteria lurking out there, does this medicating for *just in case *approch going to be good for racing and fighting disease in the long run?


 Very good point, which is why Dr. Walker discusses this very issue in length, and why it is for only the short duration of racing season. Of course, one is always free not to follow this particular medical advice and simply hope for the best when the YB's are exposed to these pathogens, and under the stress of racing. I have done none/some/and complete program and found that at least in my experience, very difficult to be @ 100% during stressful 9 week period without some medical assistance. But, to each his own. If my kids went on an over seas trip and came back, If it was known they were exposed to say Leprosy http://www.bing.com/health/article/naturalstandard-NSleprosy/Leprosy?q=leprosy&qpvt=Lebrocy or got bitten by a dog that could have rabies http://www.bing.com/health/article/mayo-MADS00484/Rabies?q=rabies&qpvt=rabies I sure would have Drs. provide important drugs *"Just in case". *Just as my pigeons could be exposed to a deadly disease in a shipping crate, they will be treated with various drugs and vaccines, "Just in Case".

Various medications and vaccines are very important tools in having healthy pigeons. Like any other tool, you must be skilled in it's use, and then use the tool in a safe and effective manner. Misuse or abuse, be it with our pigeons or by ourselves, can and will have negative consequences. Consult medical advice and then be reponsible is the suggestion I make.


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## orock (Mar 28, 2011)

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Gee, as hard as I try, I can't see the value in a medicated pellet other then for a commercial chicken or turkey farm, where they can use any number of 50 lb bags for large flock treatment for the prescribed number of days. I'm thinking the medications in the pellet may not be your best choice either, you also would have it laying around for extended period of time, am thinking out loud your pigeons are better off getting flock treatment in water, and when medication is stored, in refrigerator at proper temp., but maybe it is only a biased preference ?


I see your point, it was suggested by a flyer in my club.


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## g-pigeon (Aug 24, 2010)

Out here in long island new york just about everyone treats the birds. I was tolde this by the experienced fliers. I did not do the medicating the first year and right after the first 100 mile flight the birds never did as well again.
i will be medicating this season. you cannot perform at 100% if you are feeling off


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

I respect Dr. Walker's knowledge, but not all. People have to use their own judgements as well to make decisions--not because your doctor's said so.

If your bird is sick, then cure it. If you are not sure, then do some tests, then cure it. For every "just in case" cure you are definitely contributing to the creation of superbugs whether you know it or not. How else do you think superbugs evolve?


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

RodSD said:


> I respect Dr. Walker's knowledge, but not all. People have to use their own judgements as well to make decisions--not because your doctor's said so.
> 
> If your bird is sick, then cure it. If you are not sure, then do some tests, then cure it. For every "just in case" cure you are definitely contributing to the creation of superbugs whether you know it or not. How else do you think superbugs evolve?


 You bring up some good valid points, of which I lean towards your direction in that less over the longer term is better. In all fairness to Dr. Walker's advice for competitor lofts, there is always a risk with any medication and some things we feed our birds. From my personal perspective, I am following the thinking of Dr. Walker, and thus not a drop of anti-biotic's have touched their bills so far this season. They are being exposed to bacteria within the loft environment and are being allowed to develop a very hardy immune system. It is very difficult, if not impossible to prescribe a medical program or system which will apply to all situations. So, as the manager of your colony, you must apply the tools as the situation warrants. One must always maintain a bit of common sense, so I invite anyone to revisit articles written by Dr. Walker and draw your own conclusions. http://www.auspigeonco.com.au/ I have made some modifications towards less in his program, and at least up to this point, this last year or so, my pigeons have been in their best health and condition as they ever have been. 

I don't know what I don't know, so my intention is not to detract from what you are saying. My goal is to keep my birds in excellent health in the first place. If they get sick then to some degree I have already failed. My thinking as of March of 2012, is that there just may be a happy medium between those at one extreme in which they appear to medicate from right out of the nest, up until the day before basketing, and those who might feel that almost any medication is inherently evil and dangerous. It has taken me years of trial and error in which to find a balance which I think is best for the long term health of my birds. And I am sure that even within the medical community, there may be disagreement. In the end, I think it will be the race results which tells the story.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

Please see : http://www.auspigeonco.com.au/

For compete article, this was edited for space by:


THE USE OF PELLETTED RATIONS IN PIGEONS

By Dr Colin Walker BSc, BVSc, MRCVS, MACVSc (Avian health) 

Around the world, knowledge regarding avian nutrition has undergone quantum leaps in the last two decades. We now have a very clear understanding of the optimal nutritional requirements of pigeons.

Taking a quick look at the level of various nutrients in grain and the average level of these grains used in the various feed blends, it doesn’t take very long to realize that no grain blend can provide a complete and balanced diet. This is why over time a whole range of supplements has been developed and used successfully because they do complement the deficiencies of a diet based solely on dry grain. Further complicating the picture is that pigeons preferentially select certain grains within a mix. This means that even if a grain-blend did provide a balanced diet, it is likely that the balanced diet would be distorted by individual birds selecting the grains they liked. It has been shown, contrary to the opinion of many fanciers, that pigeons do not have nutritional wisdom. They do not necessarily know what is best for them but rather they are like children. They just eat the grain that tastes nice, and these for most pigeons are the grains that are higher in fat.

Throughout the avian world, one of the ways of combating these problems is through the provision of pelletted rations. Pelletted rations can be formulated to contain all the nutrients in just the right proportions and every pellet is the same. In this way, pelletted rations combat the two problems associated with a dry-grain diet, namely that grain diets alone intrinsically fail to provide an optimal diet and the preferential selection of certain grains. In a well formulated pelletted ration the nutritional intake and the provision of a complete and balanced diet is guaranteed.

Despite these advantages the use of pelletted diets has only slowly been embraced by pigeon fanciers. In all poultry species such as chickens and ducks, and in particular in the last few years in pet and companion birds such as parrots, the use of pelletted rations has steadily increased. Such rations are almost invariably recommended by avian vets around the world. The progressive veterinary-based pigeon companies around the world have in line with advances in knowledge started to manufacture and produce pellets.

I think part of the reason pigeon fanciers have been slow to use pellets is a lack of understanding of the product......

....

1. Hens past 7 years of age no longer breeding winners – associated with decreased yolk and albumen quality, resulting in poor embryo development and the chick getting off to a poorer start. 
2. Cocks and hens developing arthritic changes and gout by 8 - 9 years of age – associated with high levels of protein, too low calcium and incorrect levels of vitamin A and D3 in the diet. 
3. Obesity in non-breeding hens – associated with fat contents of over 6% in the diet. 
4. Infertility in middle-aged cocks – associated with an incorrect vitamin A and vitamin E ratio in the diet. These are both fat-soluble vitamins and are absorbed into the body via the same pathways. Vitamin E is needed for normal sperm function (it affects lipid metabolism in the sperm head). Giving too much vitamin A in the diet means there are no pathways available to absorb vitamin E, leading to vitamin E deficiency even if there is plenty in the diet. 
5. Recurrent canker in nestlings, despite medical management – low protein levels in the diet and poor balance of nutrients predisposes to disease generally. 

The list goes on and on. Recently, a fancy-pigeon owner rang me. He kept a breed of fancy pigeon that was notorious for poor fertility. Traditional wisdom was that this breed was of poor fertility and that a likely cause was Salmonella. Each year, for the previous 5 years, the fancier had paired 30 pairs together, producing only 6 – 8 youngsters per round. He was becoming totally exasperated and ended up driving 100 miles to our clinic to investigate the cause. The birds appeared normal in the hand and were fed grain, grit and water. Six birds were anaesthetized and the gonads were examined with an endoscope through a keyhole incision in their left side. There were no visible abnormalities (such as cysts, adhesions, or tumours) in any of the birds’ gonads. Blood was drawn from each bird for a Chlamydia test (Chlamydia is the organism that causes eye-colds in young pigeons and can damage the gonads of older birds leading to irregular laying in hens and premature infertility in cocks). The best way to diagnose Salmonella (the organism that causes the disease Paratyphoid) is to culture the site of an infection. Endoscope-guided swabs were collected for testing, taken directly from the gonads. All test results for disease were negative. The birds were changed to a pelletted ration. The next year the first round from 30 pairs contained 57 youngsters. 

Fanciers asking *if the pellets contain medication to control canker is common. On pelletted rations, they found they no longer needed to treat for canker. In Australia, it is illegal to add medication to pellets (except with a prescription). *This effect is simply due to the pellets providing a complete diet and the resultant increased ability of the healthier bird to resist disease. 

In another instance, *a fancier added turkey grower pellets to his grain blend *during breeding. The high level of protein and calcium in this blend resulted in beautiful youngsters being produced. Because of this, he kept feeding the pellets as a proportion of the diet to his stock birds while they were not breeding. *Several months later, some of these started to get sick. One was euthanized and autopsied. The persistently high protein, high calcium, high vitamin D3 levels in this diet for non-growing or breeding birds had damaged their kidneys and they were developing kidney failure. *Correction of the diet resulted in all remaining birds recovering within 2 weeks. 

Fanciers often add iron to the diet or copper sulphate to the drinker (to combat canker). These are both heavy metals that are quickly absorbed into the system but only slowly excreted. With repeated low doses, these birds look fine but as the minerals accumulate in their bodies they have a variety of effects. The most common of these in the stock loft is reduced fertility. It can be hard for the fancier to relate the dead-in-shell youngsters, clear eggs and non-laying hens experienced during breeding to these treatments, which may have been given months earlier. 

With the nutritional knowledge available and the expertise used in making maintenance pellets, to me it makes no sense not to use them. Often they are also cheaper than grain. 

Racing Pellets
The other type of pellet made is what is termed a racing pellet. These are designed to be added to a grain blend. They are a more concentrated blend of vitamins, minerals and amino acids and designed to complement the deficiencies of the grain. The term racing pellet can be misleading because when added to a grain mix at between 10-20% they can be used as an alternative to maintenance pellets. They are however principally used in birds that are actively racing. 

Racing pellets are made for two main reasons. 1. A maintenance pellet cannot provide the fluctuating nutritional requirements of competing race birds. Fat and energy requirements for a race bird fluctuate depending on how much work it is having, the distance of the race for which it is being prepared, and the weather. Grain blends need to be modified to cater for this fluctuating need. The fat and energy content of the diet is usually increased with cold weather and increased work load through the provision of high fat (e.g. safflower, hemp, linseed) and high carbohydrate (e.g. maize, wheat) grains and lowered during warm weather and times of less work. The experienced and astute fancier can determine the exact level through watching his birds’ behaviour and monitoring weight changes through handling. If the birds appear a bit tired or light, the fat and energy content should be increased provided the protein level stays above 12% of the total diet. Total protein levels of less than 12% can lead to loss of muscle bulk. 2. Food is a principal reward for a pigeon on return from a race. As pellets are not as palatable as grain, providing only pellets on return may compromise the reward principle unless the bird is very hungry. Racing pellets allow the provision of a grain-based diet but still allow the fancier to provide a complete diet. 
.....

Disadvantages of Pellets
So what are the disadvantages:

1. Palatability – Pigeons that are not accustomed to pellets initially do not like them and will select grain every time. Usually racing pellets are accepted more readily than maintenance pellets. It takes most birds 2 – 3 days to become used to them....... 


These disadvantages have got to be offset against the enormous advantage of providing a complete nutritious diet. Advantages such as healthier more fertile longer-lived stock birds, increased disease resistance, and improved race performance. I would strongly encourage fanciers to consider the use of pelletted rations.


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