# Baby Pigeon



## sally (Sep 5, 2004)

I need help to find the age of a baby pigeon I found 2wks ago. When I found the pigeon it had hardly any feathers, just a few fluffy ones. Now it has all of its wing feathers and body feathers. The feathers are now starting to grow under its wings. It is just starting to find its wings and doing small flights around my living room. It's still brown in colour but has lots of grey feathers on its wings. It's tail has also started to get long.
I need to know when it will be safe to release. It is also feeding its self on small pigeon mix which I am mixing with a little EMP. I hope I am doing the right thing with the pigeon and giving it the correct care. Please help.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Sally and welcome to pigeons.com! Thank you so much for caring for this young bird!

There is a link to pictures of Baby Sara on the home page here. If you take a look at them, you should be able to "guesstimate" the age of the bird you have. There is also a lot of good information in the Resources link at the top of the page regarding caring for both young and adult pigeons.

The bird will need to be fully feathered and have developed its flying skills before release. That would usually happen around 6 or more weeks of age.

Please feel free to post any questions you may have and let us know how you and the bird are doing.

Terry


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Sally,

Ideally it should be given the opportunity to mix with other pigeons before release, and to be released as part of a group of pigoens so that they behave as a small flock. That increases their chances of survival, Can you tell us where you are, so that if at all possible we can link you to someone that will help?

We used to have pictures available of a pigeon growing up, to help age rescued babies, but that seems to haver disappeared. is there any chance of you providing us with a pic? Has he got any fluffy yellow bits left?

Cynthia


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Ooops .. yes, the link to Baby Sara doesn't seem to be functional at the moment. Sorry!

Terry


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

I've got a few pics on my web site if it will help.
http://lovebirdsloft.homestead.com/SQUABGROWTH.html


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## sally (Sep 5, 2004)

Thanks for your help Guys. I live on Hayling Island, Hampshire in the South of England. I dont have any Avairies near by to put it in prior to release, would it be ok to put it outside in the cage that it is recovering in so it can see all the other birds flying about. I have noticed that there are a few pigeons in the garden, they look like Wood Pigeons and im sure that this is a wood pigeon. The weather is nice at the moment and it has already been outside in the cage and cherps away happily. Also when does it start to sound like a pigeon. Hope you can help me again.


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## Lin Hansen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Baby Sara Pictures are still there!*

Hi Everyone,

The Baby Sara pictures are still available, but a little harder to find. To view them, you need to click on "The Loft" on the home page. Then click on the "baby pigeons" box, then click on "Sara."

Hope this helps.

Linda


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Sally,

I am using the same method to prepare a young collared dove for release in my garden. The advantage of an own garden release is that you can continue to provide food and that you are hopefully not in a hunting, shooting and fishing area.

I have asked Alison to post here because she has so much experience of releasing woodies. The one thing I would say is please don't release too soon. i think that after fledging wood pigeons are fed by their parents for longer than feral pigeons are.


You might like to contact http://www.hartwildlife.org.uk/ and see if they have other youngsters ready for release.

Cynthia


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

*Brent Lodge*

Hi Sally,

Just found out Brent Lodge is probably only 20 miles from you. I am pretty certain that they take wood pigeons. John visits them often and is lavish with his praise of them.

http://www.btinternet.com/~brentlodge/

Cynthia


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Hi Sally -

I don't go often now, haven't had any 'patients' for a while, but I do I have a lot of respect for Brent Lodge. I have taken a few sick feral pigeons there, plus an abandoned young one not quite flying, and though some are too bad to make it (else I couldn't catch them so readily, probably) others have been successfully rehabilitated. They always do their best and get quite a few woodpigeons and collared doves in - they had a whole load of baby ones in during the rough weather in June - and are always busy with rescued birds of all kinds.

They could certainly advise about release in the area, or whether they have some with which yours could be eventually released, if you wish to go that route.

Let me know if I can assist in any way - I'm from Worthing, though I work way out in Hampshire.

John


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

Baby Sara's page:

http://www.pigeons.com/photogallery/baby/sara/sindex.html


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Thanks Linda and Mary for "finding" Baby Sara for us!

Terry


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## sally (Sep 5, 2004)

Thanks for the link to the Baby Sara photos, but my pigeon dosnt look like Sara. I think mine is a wood pigeon, so if anybody has any pictures of baby wood pigeons I would love to see them just so i can be sure that mine is a wood pigeon. Ive called mine Kelly because it did a poo on me just as Kelly Holmes got her second gold medal. Kelly is really starting to fly well, shes not as clumsy. she shakes her wings and cherps with exitement when she sees me. I am pleased with her progress, I didnt think she would survive when I found her because I found her in a puddle 2wks ago today and thought she was close to death, I wrapped her in some tissue and took her home and put her on a hotwater bottle to warm her up, I then gave her a little sugar water and within a few hours she had the strength to cherp. I fed her for the first 8 days with a syringe using EMP and slowly added some small pigeon seed. Now she is feeding herself and getting bigger each day. I cant wait to hear her sound like a pigeon. I will be so happy when I see her fly off because I know that with all my hard work I helped her to survive.


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

You did a great job with this baby. Congratulations.
Thanks to you it has a chance in life.

Reti


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## sally (Sep 5, 2004)

Thanks Reti for your kind words.


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## sally (Sep 5, 2004)

I would like to know when to take the pigeon of the EMP and just give her seed, she feeds herself quite well now but I am still mixing EMP with her seed, im still unsure of her age. She is now getting alot of grey feathers but still has alot of brown ones, the feathers are now growing under her wings, She has lost all of her yellow spikey feathers they went about 8 days ago. Her flying is getting better every day, shes not bumping into things now, her landing isnt so good yet but im sure with a bit more practice that will get better. I would like to send a picture of her from the day I found her to how she is today but I dont know how. My computer skills are as good as the pigeon's landing. If anyone has any more advice for me I would appreciate it.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Sally,

If you e-mail me the photos I will post them for you this afternoon. Mt e-mail is [email protected].

Alison has become our Woodie expert and will probably be able to age the baby for you.

I have had baby wood pigeons, but I have never followed an individual pigeon's development from hatching to fledging. I don't think they develop at the same rate as ferals.

Cynthia


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## sally (Sep 5, 2004)

Hi Cynthia, Ive sent you 2 photos from my mobile phone, I hope they come out ok. Thanks for your help. 
Sally


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Sally,

I think that is a collared dove. About 3 weeks old? Alison and Julie would be better able to identify her.

For the rest of you pic 1 was taken on 27 August, pic 2 two weeks later !

Cynthia


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## sally (Sep 5, 2004)

*Baby Pigeon or Dove?*

Hi Cynthia, Thanks for helping me, Are Collared Doves and Woodpigeons similar? Ive looked at a picture of a baby collared dove and I think you are right because mine does look like it. Do I treat it the same way as a pigeon? It looks like im back to square one with this. 
Sally


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Sally,

Collared doves and wood pigeons are not very similar, they tend to be seen in the same places, though, and both have loud voices! The wood pigeon is about 4 times larger so collared doves are much more vulnerable to predators. 

They start to fly at 18 days and leave the nest at 21 days, but I am uncertain about the aftercare that they get from their parents after leaving the nest.

I think that because they are so small they feed at bird tables on wild bird seed when they are wild. I provide the smaller, rounder seeds for them.

Most of mine have refused to settle in captivity of any sort, they batter themselves against the cage and against the window if I have them indoors. However, my first one was very calm and liked his cage as long as the door was open. He went to live in Karen's aviary in Northampton.

I have had 4 in the house so far and none of them seemed interested in baths, so I spray them with a mister so that they become waterproof.

THis is a photo of my current CD, Muppet. He is just developing the brown ring around his neck. He is sitting next to an undersized pigeon and a normal feral pigeon.


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## sally (Sep 5, 2004)

*Baby Dove/Pigeon*

I think its definatly a Collared Dove, its very much like Muppet. Did you get my other pic I emailed to you? I think its alot clearer than the other ones iI sent. Thanks again Cynthia. 
Sally


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Yes, I got the picture  She is so pretty!


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## sally (Sep 5, 2004)

*Baby Dove*

I cant believe how much she has changed in just 2 weeks, I think the name Kelly suits her. Shes changed my life this past 2 weeks, I will miss her terribly when I release her. I just hope she comes back to visit me. Ive heard that pigeons do but I dont know about Doves. 
Sally


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

My guess is that she will stay close by and return for meals, but the difficulty will be recognising her! 

Cynthia


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## sally (Sep 5, 2004)

*Baby Dove*

Can anybody tell me when I can take Kelly of the EMP? She has small pigeon seed (Which I no longer soak over night) mixed with the EMP. I feed her 3 times a day. At night she sleeps in a wire cat basket, Ive put a branch inside which sits on when she goes to sleep, she also perches herself on there when i put her outside in the basket, ive put in a bowl of water which she often uses as a bath or if she's thirsty she has a good drink. I dont think there is much more I can do. 
Sally


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## sally (Sep 5, 2004)

*Baby Dove*

How old should the Dove be before I release her? her age has been estimated at 3 wks, if someone could confirm this by looking at her latest picture I would appreciate it. 
Thanks 
Sally


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Sally,

JMO, but I think 3 weeks is a bit young for release. I have no experience with ECD's but have raised and released many a Mourning Dove here in the U.S. I find that they really aren't ready to go and fend for themselves until about 5-6 weeks of age. Your bird needs to be completely self feeding/drinking, feathers in top condition, and flying well before considering release.

From the most recent picture, I would estimate the age at 4 weeks or more but since I've never raised an ECD, I'm not really sure.

Terry


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Sally,

I agree with Terry, even though they leave the nest early we don't know how much longer they remain in the care of their parents or what the survival rate of fledgeling CDs is. We would want your baby to have the highest possible chance of surviving and thriving.

Cynthia


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## sally (Sep 5, 2004)

*Baby Dove*

I wouldnt release her until I was really sure she was ready. I would be devastated if something was to happen to her because I released her to early. She seems happy to be in my house, in fact I think shes starting to rule it, Shes definatly female. Even the dog has been put in his place. Thanks for your help guys. 

Sally


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

According to 'Guide to pigeons and doves of the world', collared doves fledge between 15 and 19 days from hatching, and become independent about a week after that. As that is for a 'normal' development - i.e., with its parents - I guess that could be just a little early, as it won't have had the benefit of the weeks 'training' from its parents in how to be a grown up dovey 

John


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## sally (Sep 5, 2004)

*Baby Dove*

I've done the best I can for the Dove but she has become a bit of a handfull, She wants to be let out all of the time to fly around and constantly paces up and down in her cage to be let out. I have not really got the room to let her do that. I do let her out all day but my rooms are not big enough for her. I'm going to get in touch with Brent Lodge to see if they will take her and put her in one of their aviaries so she can mix with other birds prior to her release. I was hoping to release her myself but I think that was quite selfish of me. I've got her this far and I am proud of myself that with no knowledge of birds what so ever I have helped her to survive. Now I think its time to hand her over to the experts. I just hope Brent Lodge can take her. Thanks everyone for all your help and advice. 

Sally


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Sally,

That is the big problem with collared doves! I put Muppet in a cat carrier to take her from the bathroom (where she is free all the time) to the aviary, and she went beserk! I had another CD that would stay quietly in his cage all day as long as the door was open, but would start that dreadful pacing the moment the door closed.

I can't imagine that Brent Lodge would refuse to take her, you have done the hard bit now all they need to do is place her in a pre-release avairy. Let us know how you get on.


Cynthia


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## sally (Sep 5, 2004)

*Baby Dove*

Hi everyone, Its good news. Brent Lodge has said that they would take the Dove, So I am taking her there on saturday. They also said that when she is due for release they would let me know so that I could watch her fly away with the other birds. I will take a photo on that day and mail it to you all so you can see it for yourselves. 

Sally


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

That is wonderful news, Sally 

My experience is that BL take excellent care of all and any birds, ad the fact that you have already done so much good for this one will be a bonus for them as they know they are getting a healthy birdie!

John


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I am so pleased, Sally. The fact that they care enough to invite you to the release says it all as far as I am concerned.

Cynthia


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## sally (Sep 5, 2004)

*Dove Update*

Hi everyone, just to update you on the dove, I didnt take her to Brent Lodge because she decided to go outside by herself, ive brought a hanging feeding table which is right outside my door, She does take little flights but i think she is not ready to leave, My door is always open so she can come and go but unfortunatly she thinks shes a dog, She lays on the floor with my westie, she follows him around, she runs to his bowl when I put his food down but she dosnt eat it, and she also plays with his tail. Im quite happy to adopt her but I think I am being cruel, she has become so friendly which I dont think is good for her, I feel as though im to blame for that. Ive cared for her and brough her back from the brink of death yet I feel that I havent done her any good for her chance to survive in the wild. I will always give her the chance to go but I do feel like a protective parent towards her. Do you still think that I should take her to Brent Lodge and give her the chance to be wild, or do you think that its to late for that? She can have a happy life here but I do feel as though ive ruined her chances of being a normal bird. Now I dont know what to do for the best. 

Sally


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Sally,

Personally I don’t think you have ruined anything! You have saved her life and given her the option of a domestic life or a wild life.

If you took her to Brent Lodge and explained that she was slightly too tame for release at present I am certain that she would regain her waryness .

I have noticed that some young doves are too tame for their own safety. I saw one sitting on a wall near my office one day and she showed no fear of me at all. I also despaired of Muppet, who would let me approach her and pick her up too easily. As she grows older she is warier of me which is a good thing.

The worry about keeping her as a domestic bird is that while she is trusting of humans and other animals she would not be safe flying free. She would have to be kept indoors (and they hate cages!) or in an aviary outside.

Cynthia


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## sally (Sep 5, 2004)

*baby dove*

Thanks Cynthia, 

Maybe I should give Brent Lodge another ring and see if they can do anything for her. I want to give her the chance of having a normal life, I got her this far and I feel for my own peace of mind I should try to get her back into the wild. 

Sally


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Bumping up for photos of baby collared dove


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## sally (Sep 5, 2004)

*Baby Dove*

Hi Cynthia. 

I didnt quite understand your last email, Do you want me to send you some photos of the Dove? 
I have got lots of pics which I had taken from when I found her to how she looks now. The change in 4 weeks is amazing. 
I am taking her to Brent Lodge tomorrow and hopefully they will get her ready for her big release back into the wild. I will miss her loads but I know I can do no more for her. 

Sally


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Sally,

You mean the "bumping up" bit? That means that you post in a thread just to bring the thread to the top of the list, so that someone else can find it easily. I wanted Jo to see your photographs to help her determine whether the pigeon that she found was a wood pigeon or a collared dove.

I would love to see photos of her now though!

But I was meaning to ask you, would you mind if I placed your photos on a website that I am creating to show what a collared dove looks like at various stages of growth? The photos will be credited to you.

I am so glad that she will be on her way to release via Brent Lodge. I am wondering whether to persuade John to take Muppet there too...

Cynthia


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## sally (Sep 5, 2004)

*Baby Dove*

Hi Cynthia 

Yes you can use my photos, I will send you some more later. 
Im taking her to Brent Lodge today at about 3-30pm. I spoke to somebody from BL about 1 hour ago and was told that in looking after the dove the way I have I had given her a death sentence, This has really upset me, I found her very rude, She then said that she would have to undo my work to make her ready for release. I hope when I go there today there will be a friendly person to talk to and not the one I spoke to on the phone. 
I will let you know how it went later. 

Sally


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

What a horrible and unnecessary thing to say. I can't believe the way some people in the rehab world behave! I once found a baby pigeon that would have died in the street and when I immediately telephoned the RSPCA they said "Thanks to your human interference this pigeon is going to die!". Then they went on to give me advice on care and feeding that was totally wrong because the exoert didn't know the difference between a pigeon and a songbird. They are HORRIBLE! Needless to say, my pigeon lived and thrived and so will Kelly, you are giving her the best chance possible by allowing her to integrate with other doves before release.

But I would raise the subject when you visit, say that if they sincerely believe that she has been condemned to death and will die if released then you will make alteernative arrangements for her. I am certain that Karen would take her as a companion for Dovey and Jack!

Cynthia


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## sally (Sep 5, 2004)

*Baby Dove*

Hi Cynthia.

Ive checked on the internet and ive managed to find 2 people who care wild birds, One lives on Hayling Island in fact just down the road from me, Im waiting for her to ring me back to see if she will take Kelly, And the other one lives just off the Island and has said that she will take her if the other person can't. Im just glad that I dont have to go 20 miles out of my way to Brent Logde who really upset me today. As soon as I know whats happening with Kelly I will let you know. 

Sally


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## sally (Sep 5, 2004)

*Baby Dove*

Hi Cynthia.

Just to let you know that the lady on Hayling Island has said that she will take Kelly, so I am taking her there sunday at lunch time. She sounded really nice and friendly on the phone. Im just glad that shes going somewhere close to where I found her.

Sally


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Sally,

I am so glad that you found help close by! I look forward to hearing how it wen.

Cynthia


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## sally (Sep 5, 2004)

*Baby Dove Update*

Hi Cynthia

Kelly is now happily settled into her new home, Ive not long been back from dropping her off, It was a lovely little place full of aviaries with pigeons, chickens, canaries, budgies and a little rabbit which was obviously not kept in a aviary. 
She takes in all sorts of wild birds which she eventually releases back into the wild. She is an amazing old lady who is 90 years old but looks no older than 70 and I have offered to help her care for any babies that come in which she was pleased about. 
Kelly has her own aviary and has plenty of room to fly about, I was very relaxed about leaving her there and was told that I can visit anytime. I have taken lots of photos of Kelly in her new home and as soon as I can put the photos in order from when I found her to when I took her to her new home I will send them to you. Thanks for all your help and kind words. I can now relax knowing that my hard work was not in vain.

Sally


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

How wonderful. You found the perfect home for Kelly and you can visit.
You did a great job.

Reti


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

That's a wonderful update, Sally  This lady sounds priceless!

Pity that someone at BL was so unnecessarily unkind. I shall write to them, having been a supporter for some while now, and express my displeasure at someone's attitude.

They are excellent with birds, and I have found them helpful in the past - this seems very out of character, and I suspect it was not someone who knows a huge amount about pigeons and doves. Did they give a name?

John


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## sally (Sep 5, 2004)

*baby dove*

No they didnt give a name, But it was definatly a woman, and if its any help I rang about 10am on saturday morning. Thanks for helping me in this matter. It did upset me alot, And I will definatly not be visiting there again like I did at their last open day. I know I did well with this baby in keeping her alive and I would do the same all over again. 

Sally


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

You did a wonderful job raising Kelly and another one finding that little lady!

It was a lovely gesture to offer to help her with babies. I wonder whether she has anyone to call on in an emergency?

Cynthia


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## sally (Sep 5, 2004)

*Baby Dove*

I wiil be speaking to her in a couple of days and I will ask if there is anyone she can call on in an emergency.


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## sally (Sep 5, 2004)

*Baby Dove update*

Ive spoken to Kelly's new carer (Mrs Long) and she said that Kelly is settling in well, She goes out to her at night and puts Kelly to bed and said that she has become quite attatched to her, What I did notice when I took Kelly there was that all of her avairies were really clean and she does that all herself and she also has a blind husband, She said that its caring for all these animals that has kept her young, she has also cared for Foxes, Hedgehogs and even fostered a goat which got in the guiness book of records for living a ripe old age, I think if she keeps going the way she is she will be in there. Im going to visit Kelly next week and I will take a photo of her just to see how much she has changed since I took her there.

Sally


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

What an amazing and lovely lady Mrs. Long is. A true inspiration.

Reti


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## sally (Sep 5, 2004)

*Baby Dove Update*

Hi Everyone
Just thought I would give you an update on Kelly, She has settled really well in her new home, She now looks like a collered dove, Doris the kind old lady who took her in has fallen in love with her, Kelly is far to friendly so Doris has decided to keep her in her avairy for her own safety, she has got plenty of room to fly around and is very happy, I went to see her the other day and she flew straight to me and wouldnt stop cherping and shaking her feathers with exitement, At the moment Doris is trying to get her a friend, she is looking for a Diamond Dove to put in the avairy with her, As well as Kelly Doris has recently taken in a racing pigeon that was attacked by a dog, it is in a different avairy to Kelly and she is doing really well in looking after that. I will hopefully be going to see Kelly on saturday and I will take some pics so you can see just how beautifull she has become. Im just proud that I had something to do with that. 

Luv Sally


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Sally,

I have Jo Isaac's dove with me at the moment. I have named her Poppet. I am hoping that she will become wild enough for release but she was also hand raised and is soooo adorable....and so trusting and tame! if she doesn't wild up perhaps we could discuss sending her back down south as friend for Kelly!

Cynthia


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## sally (Sep 5, 2004)

*Dove*

Hello everyone

Is there anybody that knows how to determine the sex of a dove? I need to find out wether Kelly really is a female or male. If anybody can help me with this it would be appreaciated. Thanks

Sally


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## ZigZagMarquis (Aug 31, 2004)

I think the only two definitive ways to sex a dove / pigeon are to... 1) If it lays eggs, its a hen... or... 2) Blood test.

I'm sure the experts here will have some other tips too.


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