# Rescued a 1 wk old pigeon need help please!



## Crobbins (Nov 2, 2011)

Hi everyone, my name is Chris I'm residing in las Vegas nv.
My neighbor found and raised a 1 wk old pigeon by hand for 5 weeks before I took him or her in. I hand fed it for two more weeks ( white cheese and wheat bread and water).the bird (Pretty Bird) stopped eating the bread and started puckin at seed while eating cheese twice a day. I have built a loft 6x4x4'. It is outof the elements and has a night light and heater at night . I keep food available at all times( dove food has a few of the ingriedience they should eat)along with fresh water . Pretty Bird is now 3 1/2 months old . He loves going in the house( my wife hates it because of the poop) and so do I. Pretty Bird is very picky with eating. I only give cheese once a day and not even 1/2 a teaspoon worth. The beak area of it's face looks like you can see the roots of feathers but she used to have more in that area. She or he does preen alot it seems but the feathers look good. My big problem is every dove inthe neighborhood is hanging at my house and eating the food and making messes in the loft. And lately pretty bird seems to be shaking more than normal. Now I have not given her anything else but bird sees and cheese. Ohh lately PB eats some wheat bread again only a little. Last night I went to get her off the book shelf and she flew and flew away from me . I had to catch her and she was upset . Really PO at me . Today I came home to ck on her and she was mellow but she didn't come right too me and when I started working in the yard she started laying in the rocks int the sun. Is that normal ? And kept picking for food while laying their. This is alot at ounce and I apologize for any confusion to my story telling. Plus how do I post picks from my iPhone or a ULR ???? Thank You so much for listening I hope so
One can help.
Chris


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Crobbins said:


> Hi everyone, my name is Chris I'm residing in las Vegas nv.
> My neighbor found and raised a 1 wk old pigeon by hand for 5 weeks before I took him or her in. I hand fed it for two more weeks ( white cheese and wheat bread and water).the bird (Pretty Bird) stopped eating the bread and started puckin at seed while eating cheese twice a day. I have built a loft 6x4x4'. It is outof the elements and has a night light and heater at night . I keep food available at all times( dove food has a few of the ingriedience they should eat)along with fresh water . Pretty Bird is now 3 1/2 months old . He loves going in the house( my wife hates it because of the poop) and so do I. Pretty Bird is very picky with eating. I only give cheese once a day and not even 1/2 a teaspoon worth. The beak area of it's face looks like you can see the roots of feathers but she used to have more in that area. She or he does preen alot it seems but the feathers look good. My big problem is every dove inthe neighborhood is hanging at my house and eating the food and making messes in the loft. And lately pretty bird seems to be shaking more than normal. Now I have not given her anything else but bird sees and cheese. Ohh lately PB eats some wheat bread again only a little. Last night I went to get her off the book shelf and she flew and flew away from me . I had to catch her and she was upset . Really PO at me . Today I came home to ck on her and she was mellow but she didn't come right too me and when I started working in the yard she started laying in the rocks int the sun. Is that normal ? And kept picking for food while laying their. This is alot at ounce and I apologize for any confusion to my story telling. Plus how do I post picks from my iPhone or a ULR ???? Thank You so much for listening I hope so
> One can help.
> Chris


No cheese for birds!!!! They should not have dairy. Bread has little to no nutritional value.

What bird seed mix are you feeding? We need to be sure this is nutritious. What kind of grit are you using?

No wild birds should be able to get in the loft. This means predators can also get in. This also means that wild birds can bring in disease. Can you post some pictures. It would also be nice to see current pictures of your bird's poo and of your bird. You might want to take a look at the "lofts" section of the site for some good examples of proper lofts. 

How to post pictures; http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f9/posting-images-how-to-7005.html


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

First off, thanks for saving PB and giving her/him such a nice life !!!

As Libis said....cheese isn't good for any avian species. So I would stop feeding that. The wheat bread once in a while is OK as long as it is the real thing...talking whole grains, rustic sorta looking - not the stuff which just looks like dark white bread. Dove mix is good if he/she is eating it. I think that perhaps slowly introducing a formulated food to the seed, such as Pigeon pellets or even Parrot pellets (budgie sized) would help balance her diet out significantly.

The loft sounds nice...as Libis noted, don't leave a place where Ferals and Wild birds can actually enter, though. You can leave a feeder outside so PB can enjoy the visits of her wild cousins while looking thru a window or something...but there shouldn't be close proximity with the possibility of direct contact.

Also, a bit unclear...do you allow him/her outside (even when she is supervised) ? If so....this is really flirting with disaster. She/he is *human-bonded*, and as you did not find him/her as an adult, then he has _*never learned the ways of the Feral world. *_ In such an instance, allowing her/him outside is super dangerous - she has not been taught nor developed a sense of predators and danger. Therefore, he would be ill-equipped to avoid such. A hawk, cat, dog, etc. could make him/her easy pickings....even if you were standing 3 feet away from her.

So, I would suggest if you want your firend to live a long life...don't allow PB outside. If you want him to do some flying...give a bit of inside flying time in your house...even if it's just 30 minutes/day.

Also...Pigeon...Dove...(?) Is she/he a Pigeon (aka Rock Dove)... or a kind of Dove-Dove ????

Welcome to the forum...yes, do post some pics !!!


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Jaye said:


> First off, thanks for saving PB and giving her/him such a nice life !!!
> 
> As Libis said....cheese isn't good for any avian species. So I would stop feeding that. The wheat bread once in a while is OK as long as it is the real thing...talking whole grains, rustic sorta looking - not the stuff which just looks like dark white bread. Dove mix is good if he/she is eating it. I think that perhaps slowly introducing a formulated food to the seed, such as Pigeon pellets or even Parrot pellets (budgie sized) would help balance her diet out significantly.
> 
> ...


Another good seed mix with pellets for you (since you only have one bird) is Kaytee Supreme Daily Dove mix. (it comes in 5lb bags. 6 bags feed 4 ringneck doves for about 9 months.) It is very nutritionally balanced and can be ordered by the case from your local feed store. Put Kaytee hi-cal grit in a separate bowl if you also would like to buy grit in small amounts since you're only working with one bird.


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## Crobbins (Nov 2, 2011)

Wow! Thanks for the prompt response . You guys are awesome. Thank you!

Ok ! I understand what you are saying. I have been reading alot on Pigeontalk and just needed to hear it direct from you guys. So hear is my game plan starting tonight.

No cheeses . 

Natural rustic wheat bread with real seeds in it.( but only as a treat once a week in minute amounts.

Dove / wild bird seed food does have the safflower,and 4 other ingredients that I have read up on . I don't have access to the information right this second.
And I feed her 1 cup of the seed in the morning and a fresh cup at night.

Also their is access to fresh water always.

I will find were to get the food that was recommended and start intergrateing it into her diet.

The loft is and will be locked at all times so nothing can get in. Nor PB out.Now I understand the trapping procedure and why.i will implement the changes necessary to my loft over the next day or so but like I said she won't be free roaming .
And yes PB has been let out in the morning at 6am and had free rain until 7 at night when its bedtime. So he's been living very dangerously.no more.
When the kids get home at 3pm PB comes in the house till 5 then im with the bird till PB gets cranky and is put to bed.really PB is a social bug.lol we are the flock for sure. And PB is human bonded no doubt. PB would walk up to cat and wouldn't even know what happen. Very easy target.no hawks to speak of.

Now the wild birds have been getting into loft. And she has been very close to the wild birds. Oh and PB is a rock dove from what I can tell.male or female haven't a clue. PB just started cooing us when we get to close and she is perched just sitting.

I have been changing the hay and scrapeing the pooh up every day.
Can i disenfect the loft?

So PB's diet and security basics I understand.

I will post pics ASAP i didn't go to the link you gave me on how to post pics but will soon.
The poop is white and wet with the cheese diet.(no more)
But since I cut way back on the cheese it would look dark green brownish black with a streak of white and firm.
I will post poop pics too. The poop has improved dramatically with less cheese. And I think it should improve from hear out.!

Pb's feathers have started looking a little messy compared to smooth and flat .
But she definitely scratches her face allot and preens very regularly. Again I'll get pics up.

Instill have manY questions but think it best handle the diet and lodging and then move on . overall Pb seems happy. Likes to be with us or anyone of us. Will basically come when called and will hang out on my shoulder for long stretches of time. Has even gone for rides on my kids scooter with me.(top speed 30'mph) too much fun . Pb does fly around some but mostly walks around with sudden bursts of hovering and darting back and forth then flapping her wings I'm one place like she's about too launch her self then lands and goes back to grazing. Sonic going to try and get picks up and look forward to further directions from those of you who will share. And I so appreciate your input and advise. Please keep it coming . I look forward to your responses.
Night!
Chris


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Welcome to PT  Pretty Bird sounds like one spoiled little guy! I agree with the others, I would keep PB confined for safety......too friendly and trusting to humans and predators.
The only thing I'll address is his 'crankiness'. That's called 'being a teenager'! They go thru a juvenile delinquent phase  It's actually fun.....grabbing you with their beak-pinching you, 'charging', wait until you get your first 'wing slap'! One thing to keep in mind is that they don't look at your 'hand' as part of 'you'. Even hand raised babies will consider the hand as a predator, but they'll still cuddle and sit on your shoulder, etc.
All this 'aggressive' behavior really means is that he's bonded to you (family). That is pigeon 'body language' meaning 'your mine', I love you, I'm the boss now...your my mate, this is my territory!


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## Crobbins (Nov 2, 2011)

Msfreebird, thank you for the insight and I definitely think we are his or hers. Is the bird really going to be happy alone in the loft all day? I mean from 8 at night till 2 in the afternoon Pb will be all closed up. For starters let me back track.the neighbor who found him or her and raised Pb for the first 5 weeks did keep Pb in a small animal cage ( dogs and cats 2x3x3 roughly) all the time. But Pb seems so happy cruising around the house. Pb never leaves the property. Does it take time to build ip steeangrh in their wings? How long before they can fly a good distance? Pb is about 12 weeks roughly old. Will pb be happy without a mate? Should I give pb a fAke egg to sit on? Andthis crankiness I own the world attitude will it go away? As it is pb will fly to me if I persist fly call pb to me . And will come to ms on her own at times. But no cuddling anymore  or petting. When perched on my arm I can gently put my hand around the wings so she won't fly away whilst I take her from the house to the loft. And what kind of perches do they prefer? Pb is always in a different spot it seems when I ck on her in the loft.so many questions. Oh and pb seems to yawn from time to time is that normal? And pb always drinks her wAter like it's the last drink for awhile. Comments or suggestions please. 
You are all being so helpfull incant thank you enough. Have a great day I'll be cking for post throughout the day and I am working on picture posting. Not sure how to put her pic on a ULR still. Cya !


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

You don't want the attitude to go away...it's all Pigeon/Dove and it indicates a relatively healthy bird.

They wanna go to sleep when it nears nightfall...so, naturally they will be out of sorts if up after dusk. Plus, birds need more sleep than humans.

I think the securing and change of diet and a little creativity by you in how to keep him exercised indoors is 90% of what you need. Regarding the other observations you have made...if you wanna put your mind at ease, take him to an avian vet (call in advance and tell them he's your pet...make sure they have NO policy about refusing to treat or confiscating saved Ferals.)

Here's some resources from Matilda' list , scroll down to Nevada. To me, looks like Partick Hauck would be choice #1 and Flamingo Clinic choice #2:

http://www.pigeonangels.com/t223-matilda-s-list-united-states-l-n

Have you ever given him a spray shower with warm water from a spray bottle...just a misting ? They love that...also give's em exercise... and it likely will make his feathers clean up and show very nicely.

BTW.....it is almost a miracle that your friend was able to save a 1-week old Mourning Dove...unlike Pigeons (Rock Doves), they are soooo fragile and skittish that it is a real challenge to keep them alive. Amazing, really. Kudos to your friend(s).


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## Crobbins (Nov 2, 2011)

Hi Jaye,

Thanks for the reply.Actually I have not done the mister bottle and will give it a try. And I am relieved that PB attitude is a good sign of being healthy.

I will ck out the clinics you suggested and thank you for doing the leg work for me.
As for the type of bird PB is, I am not exactly sure but PB is definitely a pigeon no doubt about it.And as for Doves their are many now living around my house and I mean a whole flock has moved in the back yard. I just hope its enough company for PB during the day. And I finally got one picture posted of PB on my profile pic. I am working on more to put up in my album. Thank you again Jaye everyone is making me and PB feel so welcome it awesome. Have a great day!


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Yes, he (.....although my immediate first impression is that.... he's a _'she'_) is a Blue Bar Feral...might have a smattering of Check in the wings, although that could also be due to the fact that when a baby is growing up under stress or illness, their 'bar' pattern on the wing sometimes grows in broken-up a bit.

Cute pal. BTW...you can actually post a photo directly to a thread by doing this:

1) Go to the reply window and click "advanced" below.

2) On next page, go to reply window again and scroll down to "attachments" button, and click that.

3) Upload a pic from your computer to the thread and you are done.

Here's the thing...PB is bonded to you and your family can serve him quite happily as his "flock". Also...if you ever wanna get him/her a friend...the world is FULL of unrealeasable rescues...whether they be healed Ferals or lost Homers or lost Fancies.

(if you want, a vet can also do a DNA sexing to know for sure...or...you can just wait a year and see if PB happens to ever lay any eggs)


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## Crobbins (Nov 2, 2011)

*finally some pics to post*

Thanks again Jaye,
So here are some most recent pics of PB.And one of the Loft inside, I have officially secured the loft from predators and wild birds.And PB seemed ok when I went home for lunch and spent a little time with her(and let her out in the house for an hour). I will be posting more pics to show you all what she looks like today and also so you can see her beak area and whats going on with it That I think is not normal. plus she is scratching her face alot it seems. ok Ill be back again tonight in about two hours, thank you all again for your patience and help.
Chris


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## Crobbins (Nov 2, 2011)

OK im home taking pictures and putting a list of things i got PB today. i will post soon please reply asap when i do i am very worried that i am or am not doing things correctly. Snd i know i talk alot and have many questions but could someone try answering a few more of them if you have time too look at previous post's. thanksyou guys!


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Is the loft that dark 24/7? Birds need light. Is there any way you can make a predator-proof window?


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Right...that was my first reaction when I saw the pic. 

This might be stating the obvious:

You don't necessarily have to cover up all of the wire mesh, all the time...just make sure that nothing can get into a gap or pull it away. Looks like it's covered with a material ? I would suggest leaving at least one side open to the outside (open meaning, of course, open to the light/air....not to other animals ). People do this in a variety of ways...some with a mesh wall, some with windows/glass. It's nice when they can actually see out, it keep them occupied mentally.

Looks like a nice sized and pretty cushy little enclosure there, though. Nice work !

Just looking at her/his beak area, there doesn't appear to be anything odd-looking about it. he could just be going thru a molt. But...we also have to keep in mind here that the diet he has had up to now is also imbalanced, so that can have an effect on feather/plume health.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

Also, I just noticed...what kind of heater is that ? If it is an electric one where it heats up coils, then the fan blows thru the coils to create the heat...

...you gotta get that outta there. 

The electric coil heaters are really bad for birds...toxic, actually. A better choice are the oil-filled ones which look like little radiators (DeLonghi and some other brands). They don't give off harmful fumes like the electric coil ones do. An alternative is also a reptile heater which plugs into a lamp socket.


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## Crobbins (Nov 2, 2011)

Hi guys I'm late and no pics, I was called in to work. I picked up
SuppLies and will list them tomorrow as well as have Pictures.

How cold is too cold for Pretty Bird? Being outside and all.

How small can a cage be for her if kept in the house.?

So PB's loft was designed out off two by fours and four by fours.
The mesh is just like chicken wire but plastic and it's doubled at the seems. It's strong enough to hold 200 lbs..construction grade material.3/4 of walls covered in plastic plexyglass 3/4" thick
it covers every were but the door. The door has metal chicken wire .reinforced with a crystal clear plastic sheet covering the entire front door. She sees out very well .
No more heater.she is safe and has a view . I would love for her to be in side. But the 
wife is hard to convince. O gotta crash guys talk to you tomorrow


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Crobbins said:


> Hi guys I'm late and no pics, I was called in to work. I picked up
> SuppLies and will list them tomorrow as well as have Pictures.
> 
> How cold is too cold for Pretty Bird? Being outside and all.
> ...


Well, if he were properly acclimated (stayed in outdoor pin through summer and then into fall and winter) he would be ok down to at least 30 F. So long as there were no drafts at least. 

Whether he can handle that this year depends on what he's used to. You can't suddenly change temperatures on birds. 

An extra large guinea pig cage would be ok, since it sounds like you guys would let her out to play a lot. 
The nice thing with guinea pig cages is that they have a high side, so there is less mess. 

If possible, if she stays outside, upgrade the chicken wire to hardware cloth. Otherwise mice can get in and poop in the feed which causes salmonella. Snakes can also get in through chicken wire. http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1290445&cp=2568443.2568451.2624969.1302712


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## Crobbins (Nov 2, 2011)

*more info and pics of PB and diet info*

more pics coming. Can anyone tell me how to uplaod multiple pics to my album?


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## Crobbins (Nov 2, 2011)

*PB nutrition*

I am still only feeding her the seed but here are some additional items i found. Let me know please if this stuff is appropriate.

one is vitamin drops too add too food.

another is the only grit i could find

and still another is the seed she eats.

Oh and BTW Let's just refer to PB as a Her for now


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## Crobbins (Nov 2, 2011)

*more nutrition info for PB*

and again I still have not given her any off this stuff. Plus I picked up some Peanuts. How often and how much should she get? I also put another pic of her poop.

And the Loft isnt finished . But for now zi was going to put a sheet of plastic (1/4 thick)that is perfectly clear over the opened side to keep drafts out.I dont know when I can get her a good heater so I hope she does ok for a few nights of 40-50 F temperatures.

And in regaurds to the guini pig cage . I have access to lots of metal sheets 6x6 with lots of prefabricated holes in them. kinda looks like a drain hole you see in the floor of your shower stall (no bath) but the hole are all over. and I do welding . Can I make her a cage? and do you have any suggestion for templates or plans i could follow? ok gotts run Ill ck back later this afternoon. Thanks everyone for taking me under your wing (haha get it under your wing?!!?).Bye for now!


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## Crobbins (Nov 2, 2011)

*whereiseveryone?*

I am a little impatient i guess. Could someone please respond to my pics ?!
|And L|ibis I see what your talking about for the wire mesh.What do you think about clear plastic sheeting? She can see out and the elements stay out (drafts ect..)


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

I worked a 12 hour shift so I was dissapeared for a bit...

That Kaytee Hi-cal grit is the best stuff in the world. I trust it with all my birds. If you want you can mix in the oyster shell--though even just with the Kaytee he'll be fine. Oh, but as with any grit--if it gets wet replace it. Wet grit of any kind will grow bacteria because it has many pores.

The food mix doesn't sound fantastic, but maybe with the vitamin we'll be ok. The main concern is to be sure we get enough D3 into that diet (so the bird can absorb calcium) without overdoing it. (You'll know you've given too much vitamin if the poops get runny after increasing the dose.)

I wouldn't make something with just the metal sheeting--sounds dark. (Birds need light during the day or they won't know when to eat and there would also be psychological consequences.) I would also be extremely careful about making absolutely no sharp edges in a cage. I lost my childhood parrot to a rough spot we couldn't find in a commercial cage--in something homemade you have to be even more careful. (My poor baby caught his foot on part of the cage in the middle of the night and bled too much to save him. :'( )

The poops look awesome!


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

My favorite kind of indoor aviary is just wood and hardware cloth. I'm going to try and find the post where another member showed their really awesome home made pigeon cage that had a nest box and everything in the perfect spot. Give me a minute.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Oh, and while I'm looking for the picture I was thinking of--I better mention that a med-large dog wire crate works too. Just completely disinfect before use (dog saliva can cause infection.)


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Well, this is very similar to what I was thinking of:

http://pets.webshots.com/photo/1053330829041018823SwauEk

It's just wood with hardware cloth. Probably the hardware cloth is stapled on and set up such that the bird(s) can have no contact with the sharp ends. (You could always dull the ends or put rubber over them or seal them into a metal edging over the outside edge of the wood.

Anyway, see how there's a big floor section to run around on, a tray for cleaning, a big door at the bottom and a little one at the top, and a nice nesting place at the top? I feel like this is the best sort of setup for pigeons or doves.  The shelves are nice for pigeons--they like to sit on flat places. Another nice addition would be a brick (like the regular red ones) towards the bottom. They like to sit on them and it's a safe natural way to help keep the nails short. (don't buy those awful sandpapery perches--those hurt birdy feet.  )


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Crobbins said:


> I am a little impatient i guess. Could someone please respond to my pics ?!
> |And L|ibis I see what your talking about for the wire mesh.What do you think about clear plastic sheeting? She can see out and the elements stay out (drafts ect..)


LOL, don't panic, this is the 'quiet' time of year here at PT, but don't worry....it gets busier. That's not a bad loft you have there for PB.....BUT, you need to remove and replace the chicken wire with 1/4 or 1/2 inch hardware wire mesh.
For inside, you could use a guinea pig cage, dog crate, large bird cage.
The grit is good, oyster shell is good, the seed is good for now - has alot of seeds they like...they love safflower and peas. Most pet stores carry 'dove mix' in the wild bird section.
Those are new feathers coming in around her beak (pin feathers), they itch when coming in


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## Crobbins (Nov 2, 2011)

Libis, MsFreebird,

Yes I am a bit of a worry wort when it comes down too my family members.
So just too be clear, L ibis are you referring to the grit I got as ok to use? I think it actually said not too mix with Katee Lee so I better go double ck what I have. As for the wire mesh I am going to get some today and finish working on the loft. I also bought wood panels to put down on the floor as suggested instead of concrete. 

back to the loft design.So you really don't think the plastic sheets are ok to use?Their are no sharp edges,she can see out perfectly and I frame the plastic so it cannot be pushed in. The only thing it is weak to is a fire and that's not likely.But I will check on wire mesh today. So I will update everyone soon and thank you again for getting back to me I know how it is working a lot and boy do I know. Thank you everyone have an awesome weekend talk to ya soon .

Chris

The pin feathers what a relief to here its normal.


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## Crobbins (Nov 2, 2011)

As far as the poop is concerned you said it looked good! So its ok sometimes when runny? I probably shouldnt read to far into the consistancy until her diet settles down right?
And t reiterate on the loft design again.As for the outside one(i am considering an indoor cage too)one wall is solid.The other wall is getting a window put in it today,the door will be redone with wire mesh and the fourth wall is all 1/4 inch framed in plastic sheeting.And I am finding her a new heater today.

OK more questions,what are the correct ways of handleing PB with out hurting her. As you know she is very tame ,sits on the shoulder even comes to me when called.but petting lately is not ok with PB especially when she is in gaurd duty mode ( i like to call it.she has just started doing the circle dance and cooing when on her perch. And she started talking and cooing to the mirror (way too cute).no laughing though in time i suppose. Anyways if I can do anything to get her back into being petted that would be cool but it is what it is as long as she is safe and healthy thats what matters most. 
chris


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## Crobbins (Nov 2, 2011)

oh an dby the way I love your website MsFreebird totally awesome!


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

It's not that the plastic isn't ok--it's that it can easily be ripped apart by rats etc and they can still get in. You need metal that is closer together to make it truly safe. 

Yes, the Kaytee grit is awesome stuff and I love it.

Here's a 4-H pigeon manual with some very good handling advice:

http://extension.oregonstate.edu/catalog/4h/4-h154.pdf


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Also, the hexagonal chicken wire "mesh" in your pics, although it will keep the pigeon enclosed, it wont keep predators OUT for long.
The wire is flimsy & becomes soft on the single strands & brittle where it is twisted when exposed to the elements, which means predators can chew/gnaw/rip it very easilly to gain access. The bird is then at the predators mercy.
Most people reccomend 1/2" or 1/4" hardware cloth, as this is much stronger & virtually predator proof.


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## Crobbins (Nov 2, 2011)

ok Libis, Now i see your point about the plastic.I bought enough wire to redo the whole cage tomorrow. Thank you for your patience.And think you very much for the hand book . Its great! I will post new pics tomorrow after I finish the wire mesh and I did get 1/4" kind. Pretty Bird's poop also looks much more consistent.|Does she only urinate sometimes without poop in it? she only did it once that I noticed (urinate without any poop in it|)but |I wanted to be sure. Thanks again!


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## Crobbins (Nov 2, 2011)

Thanks Quasar now I understand. I will be redueing the whole loft with 1/4"mesh wire tomorrow. Thanks again for your help.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Crobbins said:


> As far as the poop is concerned you said it looked good! So its ok sometimes when runny? I probably shouldnt read to far into the consistancy until her diet settles down right?
> And t reiterate on the loft design again.As for the outside one(i am considering an indoor cage too)one wall is solid.The other wall is getting a window put in it today,the door will be redone with wire mesh and the fourth wall is all 1/4 inch framed in plastic sheeting.And I am finding her a new heater today.
> 
> OK more questions,what are the correct ways of handleing PB with out hurting her. As you know she is very tame ,sits on the shoulder even comes to me when called.*but petting lately is not ok with PB especially when she is in gaurd duty mode ( i like to call it.she has just started doing the circle dance and cooing when on her perch. And she started talking and cooing to the mirror (way too cute)*.no laughing though in time i suppose. Anyways if I can do anything to get her back into being petted that would be cool but it is what it is as long as she is safe and healthy thats what matters most.
> chris


LOL, Sorry to say.......She sounds like a HE! LOL I can't wait until you get your first 'wing slap'....... LOL You can try 'flirting back' by taking your fingers and massaging and 'picking' around his neck......that is what a 'hen' would do for him. 
Glad to see you got the wire mesh. I would enclose the whole loft (top, bottom and sides) with the mesh. Then you can put whatever you want on the top to keep out the rain/snow, and something solid on 2 or 3 sides to block the wind. That way, if something tries to chew thru it....the wire mesh will stop them from getting inside. I have the clear plastic roof panels on top of one of my flight cages (wire mesh underneath it), and metal roof panels with 1 clear (to let sun in) on my other flight cage (wire mesh under it also).
I always tell people this.........I lost half my birds (roughly 30) many years ago to a Norway Rat attack. I'll never forget it, and I don't want it to happen to anyone else! Check your staples regularly for weak spots. I live near the ocean and river, (alot of fishing/lobstering fleets around here) so we seem to have more than the average rat population  My lofts are very secure (I hope), but they still try....and they don't give up!
Oh, and thank you for the compliment on my website.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Crobbins said:


> As far as the poop is concerned you said it looked good! So its ok sometimes when runny? I probably shouldnt read to far into the consistancy until her diet settles down right?
> And t reiterate on the loft design again.As for the outside one(i am considering an indoor cage too)one wall is solid.The other wall is getting a window put in it today,the door will be redone with wire mesh and the fourth wall is all 1/4 inch framed in plastic sheeting.And I am finding her a new heater today.
> 
> OK more questions,what are the correct ways of handleing PB with out hurting her. As you know she is very tame ,sits on the shoulder even comes to me when called.but petting lately is not ok with PB especially when she is in gaurd duty mode ( i like to call it.she has just started doing the circle dance and cooing when on her perch. And she started talking and cooing to the mirror (way too cute).no laughing though in time i suppose. Anyways if I can do anything to get her back into being petted that would be cool but it is what it is as long as she is safe and healthy thats what matters most.
> chris


The other thing is, sometimes these birds are touch-me-nots just like cats can be. So they can take a bit of patience and understanding that they don't always want petted. She also may have hit puberty. During this time they basically have the "terrible teens" and want to be all independent and moody. I have some doves who are at that stage right now lol. 

Oh, and your bird is a pigeon, so she/he won't laugh the way ringneck doves do. Pigeons coo and growl and the like.


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## jondove (Nov 17, 2011)

Crobbins said:


> I would love for her to be inside. But the
> wife is hard to convince.


Have you considered using pigeon diapers for when she is inside? http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f5/bird-diaper-for-pigeon-49006.html


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## Crobbins (Nov 2, 2011)

You guys are great! Thanks for so much input . I've been really busy with work and family I will post new pics and an update tonight. Those pin feathers we talked about before do they come in all over? And I had to
Chase pb down again I'm the house today at lunch. Should I chase her? I tried coaxing but she disnt buy it, so I caught her. I don't want to traumatize the poor thing. Ok back to work thank you to everyone for all you do and say.


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## Crobbins (Nov 2, 2011)

*Just some quick pics more to come!*

This is a pick of PB today. Are those pin feathers supposed to come in all over her body ,feet and top of head?


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Crobbins said:


> This is a pick of PB today. Are those pin feathers supposed to come in all over her body ,feet and top of head?


Yes, when they go thru a moult they loose their feathers and get new ones. They poke thru the skin wrapped in a sheath (almost looks like plastic)


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

This very interesting info. BTW the poops look perfect. So far so good.


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## Crobbins (Nov 2, 2011)

Holy cow! Pretty Bird wing slapped me! Lol I was trying to rub her neck like suggested or do the picking at the neck like they do to each other. And at first when I put her in her loft for the night she started cooing at me to back off. Butbi didn't I kept trying to pet her so she started pecking and biting my hand. And it looked like she was giving it all she had. She would bite my hand then find a spot she could hold onto the skin and then she would stick out her neck and try and push my hand off her perch. So I tried rubbing her neck and cuddling and WHAM! She slapped me with her wing. So I backed off at that point slowly and said good night. You would think she could break her wing doing that. But I guess not. 

So this must be normal right?

I think she is going through those terrible teens look you all said. I hope she gets through it fast. Other than that her poops are more consistent and that's a relief. Have an awesome day everyone and please keep up with the info it's great !


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Crobbins said:


> Holy cow! Pretty Bird wing slapped me! Lol I was trying to rub her neck like suggested or do the picking at the neck like they do to each other. And at first when I put her in her loft for the night she started cooing at me to back off. Butbi didn't I kept trying to pet her so she started pecking and biting my hand. And it looked like she was giving it all she had. She would bite my hand then find a spot she could hold onto the skin and then she would stick out her neck and try and push my hand off her perch. So I tried rubbing her neck and cuddling and WHAM! She slapped me with her wing. So I backed off at that point slowly and said good night. You would think she could break her wing doing that. But I guess not.
> 
> So this must be normal right?
> 
> I think she is going through those terrible teens look you all said. I hope she gets through it fast. Other than that her poops are more consistent and that's a relief. Have an awesome day everyone and please keep up with the info it's great !


 LOL!! I warned you........LOL That's normal


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Msfreebird said:


> LOL, Sorry to say.......She sounds like a HE! LOL I can't wait until you get your first 'wing slap'...........





Crobbins said:


> Holy cow! Pretty Bird wing slapped me! Lol I was trying to rub her neck like suggested or do the picking at the neck like they do to each other. And at first when I put her in her loft for the night she started cooing at me to back off. Butbi didn't I kept trying to pet her so she started pecking and biting my hand. And it looked like she was giving it all she had. She would bite my hand then find a spot she could hold onto the skin and then she would stick out her neck and try and push my hand off her perch. So I tried rubbing her neck and cuddling and WHAM! She slapped me with her wing. So I backed off at that point slowly and said good night. You would think she could break her wing doing that. But I guess not.
> 
> So this must be normal right?
> 
> I think she is going through those terrible teens look you all said. I hope she gets through it fast. Other than that her poops are more consistent and that's a relief. Have an awesome day everyone and please keep up with the info it's great !











by the sound of things she def looks like a HE & its perfectly normal.
He is just letting you know that his loft is HIS territory, so he is defending it.


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## Crobbins (Nov 2, 2011)

I am still going to post pics of the finished loft and PB.
So I understand PB is terratorial (very). But is their any hope to him being cuddly again. I I am trying to massage the neck area as suggested but he is just relentless at pecking and pushing my hand away( or wing slapped) until I move away. I can't even pet him any more and he has to be basically cornered to catch him and put him back in his cage. Sometimes he will still fly to me but only 50% of the time. About the only time I can touch him is when he bathes. That is way to cute and he likes me to sprinkle him with the water and rub under his wings at the same time. So that's the latest . As always thank you for all the patience and support this forum is awesome!


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Crobbins said:


> I am still going to post pics of the finished loft and PB.
> So I understand PB is terratorial (very). But is their any hope to him being cuddly again. I I am trying to massage the neck area as suggested but he is just relentless at pecking and pushing my hand away( or wing slapped) until I move away. I can't even pet him any more and he has to be basically cornered to catch him and put him back in his cage. Sometimes he will still fly to me but only 50% of the time. About the only time I can touch him is when he bathes. That is way to cute and he likes me to sprinkle him with the water and rub under his wings at the same time. So that's the latest . As always thank you for all the patience and support this forum is awesome!


This is all normal.....he should calm down a bit once he goes thru 'puberty' LOL
If he comes to you at all.....he still trusts you, he's going thru a phase. Sounds like a cock and he'll come to you on 'his' terms.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Crobbins said:


> I am still going to post pics of the finished loft and PB.
> So I understand PB is terratorial (very). But is their any hope to him being cuddly again. I I am trying to massage the neck area as suggested but he is just relentless at pecking and pushing my hand away( or wing slapped) until I move away. I can't even pet him any more and he has to be basically cornered to catch him and put him back in his cage. Sometimes he will still fly to me but only 50% of the time. About the only time I can touch him is when he bathes. That is way to cute and he likes me to sprinkle him with the water and rub under his wings at the same time. So that's the latest . As always thank you for all the patience and support this forum is awesome!


eh, I would just give him space when he needs it. Just like how as a baby you wanted mom to hold you all the time, but as an older child and adult you started wanting to explore and have your own space. Your little guy is growing up. He may or may not get cuddly again. That depends on personality.


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## Crobbins (Nov 2, 2011)

*double slap*

Hi all!,

Man have I been slammed at work. I did get pics but their at home on my pc and Iam at work now. Just wanted to say that PB is doing great! Loft is complete.He is eating well and gets lots of free time in the house.I may actually be able to convince the wife to let me keep him inside.cross your fingers. Also I had to share with those of you who care. PB double wing slapped me last night and it scared the crap outa me. lol lol! but it was too funny.And it he has already started to mellow out a bit.Can anyone tell me were to get fake eggs? Iread a blog in here and an owner of a cock said he gave his eggs and he mellowed out even more. Worth a try!


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Crobbins said:


> Hi all!,
> 
> Man have I been slammed at work. I did get pics but their at home on my pc and Iam at work now. Just wanted to say that PB is doing great! Loft is complete.He is eating well and gets lots of free time in the house.I may actually be able to convince the wife to let me keep him inside.cross your fingers. Also I had to share with those of you who care. PB double wing slapped me last night and it scared the crap outa me. lol lol! but it was too funny.And it he has already started to mellow out a bit.Can anyone tell me were to get fake eggs? Iread a blog in here and an owner of a cock said he gave his eggs and he mellowed out even more. Worth a try!


Try Dick Blick art supplies or Hobby Lobby for wooden eggs.


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## Crobbins (Nov 2, 2011)

*ok pics on Pretty Birds latest home improvements!*


HI,

So hear are a couple pictures of the loft. The inside is lined with the wire mesh.Then a layer of the plastic mesh and then on three sides i have clear plastic to keep out the wind.And also so He can see out. The floor is lined with Wire mesh then ply wood with 1"-2" of sand on the bottom. I also installed a window with wood framing and covered in Wire Mesh.I Made a window sill on the inside so He can perch comfortably .I took out the heater all together but haven't been able to afford a liquid furnace type just yet.It has been down in the 30's here in Las Vegas and very windy this week. Is he ok out their in the cold? He doesn't seem to want to go in their when its bedtime anymore. He used to be eager to go in the loft at night. I don't get that !And lastly how do his eyes look ? Thanks again for all the advice and support.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Crobbins said:


> HI,
> 
> So hear are a couple pictures of the loft. The inside is lined with the wire mesh.Then a layer of the plastic mesh and then on three sides i have clear plastic to keep out the wind.And also so He can see out. The floor is lined with Wire mesh then ply wood with 1"-2" of sand on the bottom. I also installed a window with wood framing and covered in Wire Mesh.I Made a window sill on the inside so He can perch comfortably .I took out the heater all together but haven't been able to afford a liquid furnace type just yet.It has been down in the 30's here in Las Vegas and very windy this week. Is he ok out their in the cold? He doesn't seem to want to go in their when its bedtime anymore. He used to be eager to go in the loft at night. I don't get that !And lastly how do his eyes look ? Thanks again for all the advice and support.


If you're bringing him in and out, it is hard on him to be changing temperatures constantly like this. It's ok in the spring/summer/fall, but not when it's getting cold. He has to stay in fairly constant temperatures, so either inside all winter or out in the loft all winter. (It requires for them to be acclimated to the weather for them to do well in it.) I didn't realize it would be that cold in Nevada, so I didn't think to say anything about it, but birds are sensitive to extreme temperature changes.

Your pictures aren't uploading or something.


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## Crobbins (Nov 2, 2011)

Thank you Libis that's what I was concerned about.
Hear are my options. A. He stays outside in the loft all winter.
B. He can be moved into the garage.c.or come up with a cage in the house my wife will be ok with (not likely). The garage has a side door that could be left open.
And room to fly.
What about Getting him a heater won't that change the aclumation to the climate. And wouldn't I be able to bring him inside considering,
And what about summer time. We have a couple of months that are 100-115 degrees .will he have to come in for the summer?
And another thing he is picky with his food and wont eat anything like corn or peas.I'll get those pictures up next time I'm on my pc. I cant upload from my I phone.or can I? How does one aquire a ULR ?
Thanks for the help Libis write back soon.

Ps. What state are you in?
T


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Crobbins said:


> ......I'll get those pictures up next time I'm on my pc. I cant upload from my I phone.or can I? *How does one aquire a ULR *?
> Thanks for the help Libis write back soon.


Think you mean URL lol (Uniform Resource Locator) which is basically a web address that is availlable 24/7 where you can upload & store your pics so that other websites and people can view them. 
Youre probably best opening an accunt (free) with a site like Photobucket or Imageshack, then you upload your pics there (you should be able to do it direct from your phone if it is a smartphone with internet access) for each image you will get a "URL Link" which you just copy & paste on your posts.


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## Crobbins (Nov 2, 2011)

*more pics of Pretty bird to analyze*

totally awesome thanks for the info Quazar.another question is how do i put other pics on my messages other than my profile pic? Is that were the URL comes in to play? thanks again. And i figured out i have to delete pics after i show them..thats why the others didnt come up. I am slowly getting the hang of things!


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Crobbins said:


> Thank you Libis that's what I was concerned about.
> Hear are my options. A. He stays outside in the loft all winter.
> B. He can be moved into the garage.c.or come up with a cage in the house my wife will be ok with (not likely). The garage has a side door that could be left open.
> And room to fly.
> ...


So long as he's out of the wind and gets attention somehow so he doesn't go nuts, outside would be ok all winter--but do keep in mind he's a group animal. Make absolutely sure his water doesn't freeze. Birds can't go very long without it. You can get heated waterers from Foys if you want.

In the garage in a cage or whatever is fine so long as you do not start the cars in the garage (deadly fumes.) Also, close the door at night and when you are not home. And leave a light on in the daytime if it's kinda dark in there so he knows when to eat and be active. (If he's inside, make sure there's D3 in his diet so he can absorb calcium.) 

If you can convince your wife--he can also live indoors. You can get seed catchers to go around the cage. Large Guinea pig cages are also very effective in keeping the seeds inside the cage.

He can also survive outside during the summer months just fine--just make sure (as always) that he has plenty of water and shade to get away from the sun. Just don't keep it 60 inside your house and expect him to go in and out and change temps all the time. (It's just not healthy. Actually, it's not even good for us--they say air conditioning is part of what's making us fat since we don't use calories to keep our body temperatures constant. To the bird, though, it would be more like if I jumped from my nice warm house to the cold outside air when it's -40 or something without my coat on.) 

Oh, and I'm in Nebraska. I don't think of Nevada as cold--all the pictures and stuff tend to portray it as a hot desert. (One always forgets how quickly the desert gets cold lol.)


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Is that plastic hardware cloth, or is it rubber-dipped metal?

Plastic isn't very strong, if that's all that it is, and probably won't keep out rats/mice since they are strong chewers.


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## Crobbins (Nov 2, 2011)

*Plastic mesh is no good!*

*Hi Libis,

Yes it's plastic then ply wood then wire mesh on the outside .It's up against the wall so I couldn't get a picture in back of the loft. And its all wire mesh plus plastic shields all the way around to block the wind.Except for the window I made him. Its wood and wire mesh only so he can enjoy the breeze if he chooses too.I put a board over the window if its really windy outside. 

So I didn't get a clear answer to weather or not the bird is ok with a heated loft(I got the oil filled heater Yaaay!)and being inside the house and also being let out in the garage to fly around too(besides in the house when the wife is working, shhhhhh! 
So is this bad for him because the garage is not heated and he likes to sit on my shoulder when I go outside.And its definitely cold outside or at least to me it is (30-40 at night and 45-65 in the day. I just want him to be comfortable and he really does seem to enjoy it outside.He even took a bath this afternoon while I was watering the garden.So I went and got him a warm pan of water which he eagerly jumped in and finished bathing.So funny how he lays over in the water with his wing in the air.

You know that's the only time he really lets me get close and sprinkle him with water without acting nervous or shaking.(only shakes right when he first sees me in the morning then he is fine).

So basically He gets fresh water daily no matter were he is .
He gets fresh dove food daily.(I put 1 drop per ounce of food of the D-3 vitamins mixed in)
He also gets a couple teaspoons of grit and of calcium in separate bowls every three days and it never gets wet.He doesn't seem to eat any of it though at all!????

I do spray his loft once a week for mights and lice because I now am supporting the local Dove population since I got Pretty bird.And by the way they no longer fly away when they see me.They just hang around.But their are a lot of them(15-20).They are kind of becoming a pain in the but due to them flying in my garage and today one got trapped under a bucket that was sitting on top of a crate. Still cant figure that one out. But I let it go and it seemed happy! 

By the way we have owls (smaller than a pigeon and bats but no predator Hawks to speak of. The cats in my neighborhood don't come around because I have three dogs.And the dogs have also adopted PB as one of their own.

PB is still molting I guess but occasionally I find a few large feathers too!?

And for the record it gets darn nippy in this high planes desert and really hot in the summer. I am relieved to hear PB will adapt just fine Thanks for the responses keep'em coming. Sorry it took so long to respond Its been busy at work!

Have a great night!
Chris.​*


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Crobbins said:


> *Hi Libis,
> 
> Yes it's plastic then ply wood then wire mesh on the outside .It's up against the wall so I couldn't get a picture in back of the loft. And its all wire mesh plus plastic shields all the way around to block the wind.Except for the window I made him. Its wood and wire mesh only so he can enjoy the breeze if he chooses too.I put a board over the window if its really windy outside.
> 
> ...


He'll be perfectly ok outside, just remember that constant temperature fluxuations is what will get him sick. 
If you have the loft heated to a similar temperature as the inside of the house, you can bring him in for visits BUT make sure he doesn't get chilled in between the loft and the house. You could move him in a (sanitized--since cat/dog saliva is deadly to birds) cat or dog carrier with a blanket over it. If the day is 50 degrees or better when you're moving him, I wouldn't worry too much about the blankie. But if it's colder, such that there is a noticeable difference between your house and outside he should get to be in the blanketed kennel while going between. 

Your more convenient for you option is the garage if you can keep from parking in it. He'll also be fine in there so long as there are no car fumes from starting up vehicles. There you could more easily have your visits, as I can't imagine your garages is too horribly much colder than the house. 

He will eat the grit much more slowly than the food. It's not so noticeable--but it will slowly disappear as he needs it. Just make sure he's always got it on hand--he'll know when he needs it.  You don't need to change the grit unless it gets wet or pooped on.

How close are these wild birds getting to your bird? We want to avoid too much contact with them--as they can give him a whole lot more than just bugs.. 

So long as you do not let him fly outside (a lone pigeon is a dead pigeon) he should be safe from owls--since your loft seems secure. The other thing to watch for is mice/rats/squirrels trying to get into the base or roof of your enclosure. Bats aren't a big deal, and honestly it's best to keep them around b/c they eat bugs. (Just don't handle them... even a healthy one gives a very strong bite lol.) 

Eh--my birds are still molting all over the place, too. Big and little feathers. One has a big bald patch on the back of his neck, too. Sounds ok/normal.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Crobbins said:


> *And its definitely cold outside or at least to me it is (30-40 at night and 45-65 in the day.​*


Dang--I wish we could have your weather today. Our high is going to be 29 degrees. (Better than yesterday, though--the high yesterday was 20.) 

(It's lucky I don't keep my birds outside--I'd be waaay too worried about the diamond doves these nights.)


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## Crobbins (Nov 2, 2011)

*Pretty bird update*

Ya I'll bet! I couldn't imagine living in temperatures like you do. That's a little frigging cold for my taste. Lol!
So far |He is not coming within at least 2-3 feet from him at any given time. He wont let them. Like you said he is very humanized.He wing slaps at them anytime they approach him or his loft . Come to think of it he either runs to me and I shew them away or he is aggressive towards them .Lately they seem to keep their distance and just hang out on the roof. But no contact at all. I spray the inside of the cage and outside with the mite and lice killer. And only let him back in his cage when the spray has dried completely.

When I move him its only about 5 feet from the door.And he is more than eager to get right inside the house.Its funny to watch him try and get in the doggy door,. He is going to figure it out sooner or later. Actually he knows he just isnt strong enough to move the door.

As for living arrangements i did pick up a dog kennel and its huge.so Im thinking the garage is a good place but I really think he likes it in the loft or in the house. So I am leaning towards the kennel during the night in the house and the heated loft outside during the day. And yes I do let him run free outside for a short time . But not too offend anyone ,he loves to streak across the street(2-50 ft in the air and back to me . The first time he did it he took off so fast i didnt even realize it was him at first. And man did he look happy! You would have thought he was on a string the way he cut back all of a sudden and shot right at me. I thought he was going to crash into me but he didnt he just half landed half ran into his loft .I think it scared him good cause he only does it once a week or so he would rather hang out with me in the garden.|And I know its risky but again its what he was meant too do.Fly!

As for the grit and calcium (separate bowls) he really does eat it slow.

eek:What about the fact that he is so darn picky with food.Should I leave his bird food out till its gone?
Should I just freshen it up and add his vitamin drops?

Or just throe it out and put new stuff out every day?

He has really started to fill out as far as feathers are concerned. And that pretty purple band is starting to show more and more around his neck.

Their are no mice or rats. I do see an occasional crow during the day.And once in a blue moon I hear an owl.Their are several pigeons (Ferrell |)that live in my neighborhood as well as doves And some humming birds.

And again I may take the chance from time too time but I am armed in case he ever had an encounter with a predator.But he is under strict supervision and I know its a risk.


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## Crobbins (Nov 2, 2011)

*PB pics*

post pics of pb


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Crobbins said:


> Ya I'll bet! I couldn't imagine living in temperatures like you do. That's a little frigging cold for my taste. Lol!
> So far |He is not coming within at least 2-3 feet from him at any given time. He wont let them. Like you said he is very humanized.He wing slaps at them anytime they approach him or his loft . Come to think of it he either runs to me and I shew them away or he is aggressive towards them .Lately they seem to keep their distance and just hang out on the roof. But no contact at all. I spray the inside of the cage and outside with the mite and lice killer. And only let him back in his cage when the spray has dried completely.
> 
> When I move him its only about 5 feet from the door.And he is more than eager to get right inside the house.Its funny to watch him try and get in the doggy door,. He is going to figure it out sooner or later. Actually he knows he just isnt strong enough to move the door.
> ...


Ok, so long as you know the predators most interested in him aren't allowed to be shot and can pluck him right from the sky in a second. I understand why you want to let him fly, but I feel that to be completely strait with you I do have to emphasize how dangerous this is for a single bird.

Can the vitamin drops go in the water rather than on the food? I usually make the birds eat all of their food, but with a vitamin drop on there I would be concerned that if left overnight bacteria would grow. 

By the way, his mix doesn't have big black sunflower seeds or anything like that, right? Because he can't eat those with the outside covering--so if that's what's getting left don't force him to eat it.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if the mix has balanced nutrition, I usually make them eat up most of it.


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## Crobbins (Nov 2, 2011)

Ok Libis I thought about it and decided it"s not worth letting him fly outside.I did get the dog kennel all cleaned up and ready for him to be inside and all so that's cool. Unfortunately my wife is now unhappy because the kennel is so big lol! I just cant win.
And Ill put the vitamins in the water like you said instead of taking the risk with the bacteria growing. Thanks for the response and I appreciate your straight forwardness. have a great night and Merry Christmas to you and your family.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Crobbins said:


> Ok Libis I thought about it and decided it"s not worth letting him fly outside.I did get the dog kennel all cleaned up and ready for him to be inside and all so that's cool. Unfortunately my wife is now unhappy because the kennel is so big lol! I just cant win.
> And Ill put the vitamins in the water like you said instead of taking the risk with the bacteria growing. Thanks for the response and I appreciate your straight forwardness. have a great night and Merry Christmas to you and your family.


I'm glad to hear you'll have him flying inside rather than outside. I was a bit worried for him. 

To keep your wife a bit happier, you might put a tarp or something under the cage--because he will be messy like my birds. Then it will be easier to pick up all the feathers and stuff every time you clean. 

Is your wife kind of scared of birds or just not an animal-lover? I know it's hard for my boyfriend that I have a bunch of birds both because he used to be afraid of birds as a child and because he's a neat freak. Another thing that might help if she likes everything really clean is a seed guard. It's a stretchy mesh petstores etc sell for bird cages to keep flung seeds from leaving the cage as easily. Also, I've found that if I put the birdseed in a large ceramic dog bowl--German Shepherd size or bigger--they can't throw the seeds as far. (You might want like Great Dane size since your bird is a bit bigger than mine.) 

Yeah--you change the water everyday anyway, so it's always made more sense to me to put the vitamin drops in there.  This way you can save some money on seeds maybe since you won't have to throw as many away.

And a Merry Christmas to you and yours as well!


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## nicole (Mar 27, 2006)

Hi, Crobbins. I live in the Las Vegas area, too, and wanted to give you a tip on where you can find pigeon feed. The place with the best selection is Bahnna Bird, up in North Las Vegas. The others are Nellis Farm and Feed, and Jones Farm and Feed. They all sell the big bags of feed for about $25. I think at Bahnna, they sell smaller bags, too. You can also get pigeon grit there. Good luck! Pigeons are addictive.


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## Crobbins (Nov 2, 2011)

Hi Nicole, 

Thanks for the info on where to by pigeon food. That helPs alot. So how many birds do you have? How long have you had them? Do you race them?


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## Crobbins (Nov 2, 2011)

Thank you Nicole for the locations that's great to know . Do you have.pigeons? What kind of living environments are they in? Nice to know a local.

Hey,Libis I think I'm winning the battle with my wife its just gonna cost me . It's funny how PB will fly To me and hang out on my shoulder All day. It when I go to pet him he attacks me and we duke it out for a while. I think it's good exercise for him. Do you let your doves out? How much interactiOn do you have as far as holding or petting them? Gotta crash talk to ya soon!


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Crobbins said:


> Thank you Nicole for the locations that's great to know . Do you have.pigeons? What kind of living environments are they in? Nice to know a local.
> 
> Hey,Libis I think I'm winning the battle with my wife its just gonna cost me . It's funny how PB will fly To me and hang out on my shoulder All day. It when I go to pet him he attacks me and we duke it out for a while. I think it's good exercise for him. Do you let your doves out? How much interactiOn do you have as far as holding or petting them? Gotta crash talk to ya soon!


I let my ringneck doves out to play when I know people will not be coming in and out of the house (we have a lot of hawks here--so it would be a complete disaster for them to get out.) My older pair (Ed and Lita) I only let out in the bathroom, because they are not as tame as the babies. Ed is tame, but he is a "touch me not." He likes it if I do homework in the bathroom while he's out because he can be nosy about it. His mate, Lita came from an excellent breeder, but he lets his birds raise his birds--so she came to me completely wild. Sometimes I can get her to eat from my hands, but we haven't finished building trust. I think she could become as sweet as her little daughter in time. 
Their kids, Baby and Tamaki, grew up in my house and knew my voice from the day that they hatched. I began holding them when they first opened their eyes (very short sessions at first of less than 5 min when I was cleaning their nest bowl.) Now they climb all over me. Sometimes they want petted or want to hang close and sleep on my hand/lap, but right now they are also teenagers--so they are starting to feel like they want to explore. They love to strike out together to wander the floor (another reason I'm very careful what time of day I let them play--we have some people living here who don't see peripherally.) Baby also likes baths more than Tamaki does, and will lift her wing wanting me to sprinkle water under it.  

I'm still at the in-cage taming stage with the diamond doves. They are too nervous to start with out-of-cage taming (I tried it when they were too wild and they ran into walls and I was so afraid they would be injured because they're so tiny.) Right now we're working on eating from the food dish while my hand is also "eating" from the food dish. It's working well, but slowly.


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## Crobbins (Nov 2, 2011)

So totally cool Libis. You must have so much patience . So the young ones that you hand raised are becoming more


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## Crobbins (Nov 2, 2011)

(oops! Darn phone my hands are to big)Indapendent ? Do they get to that point were they won't let you even touch them? It's really nerve racking the way he was once so cuddly and now such a little rug rat! Lol! I've been trying to interact by letting him attack my hand . Instead of pulling away( as I did at first) I just leave my hand next to him and let him bite away at me. He always goes for the skin between the f


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## Crobbins (Nov 2, 2011)

Did it again sorry!

Fingers were he can bite skin and get a hold of me. Then I grab his beak and play tug of war in a manner of speaking. Do you think all of this


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## Crobbins (Nov 2, 2011)

Interaction is ok? It's not too aggressive is it ? It sure seems like it to me. Anyways thanks for sharing your stories about the birds I like them and so does my daughter. We sit down and laugh together while reading these stories. My daughter wants to know if you can share any other adventures with the kids( we consider our pets more like our kids) thanks again Libis and btw I checked out your website a little deeper . Very cool art. I grew up with D&D role playing games so your website felt just like home. And I've probably seen lord of the rings about 10 times each( it never gets old) or more . Ttyl!


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Crobbins said:


> Interaction is ok? It's not too aggressive is it ? It sure seems like it to me. Anyways thanks for sharing your stories about the birds I like them and so does my daughter. We sit down and laugh together while reading these stories. My daughter wants to know if you can share any other adventures with the kids( we consider our pets more like our kids) thanks again Libis and btw I checked out your website a little deeper . Very cool art. I grew up with D&D role playing games so your website felt just like home. And I've probably seen lord of the rings about 10 times each( it never gets old) or more . Ttyl!


Yeah--I've heard of a lot of pigeons playing that game. I think they like to play with their mouth b/c that's a lot of how they interact with eachother.  I know Tamaki will sit on my hand and bite/nibble my fingertips. I feel that it's a flock interaction thing. 

The babies are starting to grow up and get more independent. It will be interesting to see if they stay somewhat cuddly like some people say that their doves are, or if they inherited their father's dislike of touch. I don't think Baby would ever get too aloof, partially because she has vision problems. (I'm still trying to figure out why--but it seems like it's a recessive thing that sits close on the chromosome to the color white sometimes. It's not super consistently seen in whites, but it seems like more of them have these issues.) 

Hmmm--stories, eh? Well, you guys should have seen the first time I took Baby and Tamaki to the vet's. (Baby had gotten a bacterial infection.) We were there very early, so they let us into the exam room to wait--which was very helpful b/c the doves are hyper sometimes. Anyway, they got out and started exploring a bit and Tamaki noticed this inflatable flea hanging off of the ceiling lol. He was kind of scared of it but super curious, so he flew up onto my head to look at it. No matter what I did, for about 10 or 20 min he kept jumping up on my head to look at that thing. XD Baby joined him as well. Luckily, I got them settled down by the time the doctor got there.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Crobbins said:


> Interaction is ok? It's not too aggressive is it ? It sure seems like it to me. Anyways thanks for sharing your stories about the birds I like them and so does my daughter. We sit down and laugh together while reading these stories. My daughter wants to know if you can share any other adventures with the kids( we consider our pets more like our kids) thanks again Libis and btw I checked out your website a little deeper . Very cool art. I grew up with D&D role playing games so your website felt just like home. And I've probably seen lord of the rings about 10 times each( it never gets old) or more . Ttyl!


Oh, and if you're a nerd too you should wander around Deviant Art--there are lots of good fanartists there.  (Just make sure you have it set with the mature filter on if you're looking with your daughter. The site is open to all genres of artists.)


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## nicole (Mar 27, 2006)

Hi, Crobbins. Nice to meet a fellow Pij person in LV. I started out with one pigeon I found with a broken wing in 2006 and now have 15! I built them a backyard aviary this fall (we dont live in a hoa). I don't fly the ones who are able because we have roving ravens and mean-spirited cars/neighbors that my birds wouldn't know to avoid.


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

Interesting artwork. Looks similar to manga style.
Artists, I think for the most part, are sensitive souls. Maybe that is why we care for pigeons.


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

pirab buk said:


> Interesting artwork. Looks similar to manga style.
> Artists, I think for the most part, are sensitive souls. Maybe that is why we care for pigeons.


Yeah, a lot of artists are animal people.


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## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

pirab buk said:


> Interesting artwork. Looks similar to manga style.
> *Artists, I think for the most part, are sensitive souls. Maybe that is why we care for pigeons*.


LOL, is that why I have soooooooo many?


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## Crobbins (Nov 2, 2011)

Oh no!I see my future ahead of me .One just wont be enough. And my wif'es gonna kick my Behind for sure.Pretty bird is definately more intellagent and socialable thanI could everhope for.But iknow he is lonely a little.He gets 3hrs in the house time a day and at least 2 hrs hanging out in the garage with me(And I dont park cars in my garage ever.Its a music room and fitness room). He just acts like he would rather come in the house. So any suggestions for a young Hen?


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Crobbins said:


> Oh no!I see my future ahead of me .One just wont be enough. And my wif'es gonna kick my Behind for sure.Pretty bird is definately more intellagent and socialable thanI could everhope for.But iknow he is lonely a little.He gets 3hrs in the house time a day and at least 2 hrs hanging out in the garage with me(And I dont park cars in my garage ever.Its a music room and fitness room). He just acts like he would rather come in the house. So any suggestions for a young Hen?


I'm sure a member on here will have a young hen in the spring that they would like to sell or adopt out to a good home.


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

My pigeon thinks he is a dog. He follows me around and sit next to me on the couch.
He is a homely little guy with most of his top beak missing but you can't help but feel affection for him. He loves to be petted and held.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

He was a cute little bird if I remember right. Do you have pics of how he turned out? How does he eat now?


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## pirab buk (Sep 8, 2011)

If I can figure out how to post pics I'll give it a try. I know I've done it before but I am so computer dysfunctional!
Anyways, he eats good, poops good and he loves his cuddles!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

pirab buk said:


> If I can figure out how to post pics I'll give it a try. I know I've done it before but I am so computer dysfunctional!
> Anyways, he eats good, poops good and he loves his cuddles!


That's wonderful. I'm happy that it's going well.


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## Crobbins (Nov 2, 2011)

That is so cool Pirab pulp homely or not at least he is affectionate right? Mine just wants to attack me when I pet him . But I've learned to pet him with one hand while the other is being mauled lol! 

Libis I will look into that I'm the spring injust want to get a young one so she will be ok with people . 
And merry Christmas everyone !


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Crobbins said:


> That is so cool Pirab pulp homely or not at least he is affectionate right? Mine just wants to attack me when I pet him . But I've learned to pet him with one hand while the other is being mauled lol!
> 
> Libis I will look into that I'm the spring injust want to get a young one so she will be ok with people .
> And merry Christmas everyone !


Just know that it depends on the breeder whether the bird you get will be tame. It also depends on the hen's individual personality. Some pigeons and doves are simply "touch-me-nots."


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## Crobbins (Nov 2, 2011)

*las vegas pigeon needs help*

Hey Libis ,
Finally saw your message . I did send a PM to the person with the hurt pigeon.
But no reply as of yet.
So tell me how you would be prepared for this bird please.

Medicine's?where to get it.
Routine (feeding bathing etc...)

Any advice will help.
Thank you


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## Libis (Oct 8, 2010)

Crobbins said:


> Hey Libis ,
> Finally saw your message . I did send a PM to the person with the hurt pigeon.
> But no reply as of yet.
> So tell me how you would be prepared for this bird please.
> ...


I'm going to post my reply soon in the thread where the hurt pigeon is mentioned so that it makes sense and keeps the mods/admin happy. (I'm typing it up right now, but it should appear shortly.)

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f20/help-please-found-injured-pigeon-58238.html


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## Crobbins (Nov 2, 2011)

Hi Liz sorry I have. Of responded sooner . My company just moved and it was alot to move(22000 sp. ft) the lady has not responded any more to my posts I'm not sure if the pigeon ever got to the vet or not. I'll keep trying. And as for PB he is definately a touch me not at this point. He is very terratorial and when ever you try to get close on your own to him he starts cooing and attacking the hand to no end. It's not tramatizing to him is it ? The only way to pet him is while he is attacking one hand lol


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