# Help with hatchlings



## [email protected] (May 21, 2011)

Hi everyone
the story about the hatch-lings start here, with pics : http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f20/found-a-pigeon-egg-52951.html.
The pigeon has pooped finally, and it was quite big for a little guy.
I'am feeding him chick crumbs soaked in hot water and then sieved once every 2 hours. Should this be ok?
If you have any advice, all ears open 
Thanks 
sam


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

The chick crumb mixture must be very thin at the moment, when I saw Nooti feed it it looked like tea. 1ml every two hours, liquised and sieved, served at about 39 degrees.

Did I post* this link* on caring for a baby pigeon?


----------



## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Just in case you need this I get Kaytee baby bird formula from Northern Parrots on the internet.

Sorry can't help with rearing from new born though as have never done this.

Good luck,

Janet


----------



## [email protected] (May 21, 2011)

Hi Feefo and amyable
Thanks for posting the link.
Janet, thank you for your kind offer, but 
I think I will stick with the chick crumbs
as everyone has recommended me to do so.
Should I use bird formula instead? I don't know, maybe I should get some just incase
The chick is still in the incubator at 37 degrees, with the other egg which has began to hatch.
I wonder if they do sell any bird formula on eBay...I'll check
Ohhh and the chicks yellow fur/feathers seem to be turning white, is there a cause for this?
Thanks for everything
Sam


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Hi Feefo and amyable
> Thanks for posting the link.
> Janet, thank you for your kind offer, but
> I think I will stick with the chick crumbs
> ...


The formula is easier to use and it has the digestive enzymes in it and probiotics to help with digesting.


----------



## [email protected] (May 21, 2011)

Ok
I will order some, will any bird formula do or only specific ones ?
thanks for all the help


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Kaytee Exact Hand rearing formula is best, easy to prepare. Otherwise Nutribird but that tends to get a bit lumpy and needs sieving.


----------



## [email protected] (May 21, 2011)

Second pigdy has hatched, but the chick has a white membrane stuck on to his body
Will a warm wet cloth take it off?
I will upload some pics in a minute
Thanks
sam


----------



## [email protected] (May 21, 2011)

Here's the newly hatched pigeon with the membrane stuck on him
I'am so glad both chicks made it, their now cuddled up close to each other.
Ohh yeah, the older chick sometimes starts jumping around and flipping on his back is this common


----------



## [email protected] (May 21, 2011)

I don't think the older chick is feeling well 
most of the time I find him on his back with both his legs up in the air.
And the chick is always jumping around and flipping backwards
I don't know whats wrong with it
It's 2 days old today
thanks


----------



## [email protected] (May 21, 2011)

The chick seems to have a small lump just in front of his anus, 
what does this mean? I don't think he has pooped either, what do I do?


----------



## [email protected] (May 21, 2011)

Think the pigeon chick has slow crop
the food is not digesting
Any suggestions?
thanks


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

bumping.... it may have canker..not sure how to treat a hatchling..Im sorry.. hope someone comes round to help.


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

If you made the mox to thick (it should be as thin as tea to start with) then give it warm water and gently massage the crop, but don't press it because fluid could rise into the mouth and it could aspirate.

Don't feed it any more until the crop is emptied, it will only make things worse.

Lie it so that the crop is on something warm. Try giving it some (warm) infant apple sauce.

Sometimes a bit of activated charcoal helps, very little at that age, 1/8 of a tablet or less.

The best thing for crop stasis is metaclopramide, but you have to get that from the vet.


----------



## [email protected] (May 21, 2011)

Thanks for all the help 
I will wait until his crop is fully flushed out
thanks again


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> it may have canker..not sure how to treat a hatchling.


No, they wouldn't hatch trichomonads (the organism that causes canker) in their system, they get infected if their parents have a high burden that is passed during feeding. The clinical signs take 6 days to appear.


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Feefo said:


> No, it wouldn't hatch trichomonads (the organism that causes canker) in their system, they get infected if their parents have a high burden that is passed during feeding. The clinical signs take 6 days to appear.


I see.. I was thinking it was this because of the lump he saw..."Umbilical canker passes from the infected nest box into the body of the young bird still in the nest."

"..but really I forgot they hatched in a incubator.


----------



## [email protected] (May 21, 2011)

Hi 
thanks for all the help you've given me 

just one more thing, how long can a chick live without being fed, will it survive on the feed already in the crop?
The chick with the slow crop also sleeps on his back with both feet in the air,
it there another problem I don't know about?
thanks


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> The chick with the slow crop also sleeps on his back with both feet in the air


,

I can't think why it would sleep on its back, it isn't right, maybe someone else can help? Are the chicks side by side in the nest facing opposite directions? That is how they should be lying at that age.

It won't survive long unless the food starts to move out of the crop, while the food is stuck in the crop it won't be nourishing the baby. First of all it will become dehydrated as fluids are not passing through to the digestive system where they will be absorbed. Then, bacteria will start multiplying in the food that is sitting in the crop As a last resource you have to "milk" the crop by turning the pigeon upside down and sort of teasiong the crop contents out, *, but that is dangerous* as the bird can aspirate and yours are so tiny still. A vet could probably flush it for you.



> I see.. I was thinking it was this..."Umbilical canker passes from the infected nest box into the body of the young bird still in the nest."


Yes, that happens, but the infection that they absorb through the navel would come from infected pigeon milk spilt in the nest by the parents.


----------



## [email protected] (May 21, 2011)

no the chicks are not side by side as one of them are on their back (the older one)
The other chick seems fine,if the foods stuck in his crop he won't be able to poo right?


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

> if the foods stuck in his crop he won't be able to poo right


Not quite.

As far as I know pigeons continue to produce bile even when no food goes through their digestive system, so there would be very scanty dark green poop (I think this goes for babies as well as adults) . But with "slow crop" the food goes through only very slowly. "Crop stasis" is when it doesn't go through at all.

Could you put the one that is lying on its back in an upright position next to its nestmate?


----------



## [email protected] (May 21, 2011)

yh I try to do that but he just flips over again,
now the chick seems to be breathing heavily


----------



## [email protected] (May 21, 2011)

Hi
regret to inform you all that my little Pidgy passed away. RIP 
Better news is that:
His sibling is doing great eating and pooping well 
Well thanks for all the help


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

oh..how sad.. you gave it your best shot... hope the other continues to do well..


----------



## [email protected] (May 21, 2011)

thanks for the encouragement


----------



## [email protected] (May 21, 2011)

Hi
Everyone 
after I lost the first chick, I feel I should try much harder to get this chick through

Pictures of the second chick
Am I feeding him/her enough or not (taken after feeding) a little wet due to messy feeding


----------



## [email protected] (May 21, 2011)

Is this type of poo alright?
A bit of white and light green. It was liquidy
Should I thicken food slightly
Thanks for all the help


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

The picture is too big to see.. can you make it smaller?


----------



## [email protected] (May 21, 2011)

Ok ill try
and how many poops does the bird do on average a day


----------



## [email protected] (May 21, 2011)

I can't make the pictures smaller, I 'm not sure how to


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I saved it to my computer and took a look.. I think his crop needs to be a bit fuller.. here is a picture of an older one with a full crop..they look like little bean bags on his chest or lower neck.. feed only when it is almost empty.

http://pigeonracingpigeons.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/baby_pigeon.jpg


----------



## [email protected] (May 21, 2011)

Thanks for the help, 
I only feed now when the crop is empty


----------



## [email protected] (May 21, 2011)

The pigeon doesn't seem to be making any growth, bird formula is on the way (in the mail).
Could it be that the chick crumb formula is too thin?
When can I start thickening it a little?
The pigeon will be 3 days old tomorrow and the pigeon doesn't seem to have grown much
Any suggestions
Thanks


----------



## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

How many milliliters are you feeding him and about how often?


----------



## [email protected] (May 21, 2011)

2ml every 2 hours, but sometimes it takes longer for his crop to empty


----------



## [email protected] (May 21, 2011)

Help!!!
The second chick is showing similar symptoms to the first chick,
It's lying on it's back now and straining with it's legs, I think it has trouble
pooping
I really need some advice
Thanks


----------



## [email protected] (May 21, 2011)

I think the chick crumbs might have meds in them which are not harmful to chickens
but deadly to pigeons
I'am gna stop feeding chick crumbs,
would the chick do well on porridge?
Thanks


----------



## [email protected] (May 21, 2011)

Is there anything I can feed my chick in the mean time, preferably things I have at home.
Just something until the bird formula arrives
Thanks
Sam


----------



## [email protected] (May 21, 2011)

The 2nd chick is dying
I think the chick crumbs killed the first chick and I didn't know and continued to feed the second chick now the 2nd chick is dying...
Is there anything I could do he still has quite a lfull crop


----------



## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Chick crumbs are OK if they are well sieved and blended.

I believe a problem with hatchlings is that they are fed 'crop milk' by the parents, and the closest we can get to that is the 'mac milk diet'.

Also, if a baby aspirates any of the food when we feed them, they are in great danger.


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Chick crumbs are not toxic, Nooti - one of our most experienced members - uses them successfully but *you have to prepare them properly*, soak them for half an hour in hot not boiling water, liquidise and sieve, serve *very, very thin* to hatchlings... I posted *the link to Nooti's intructions* before the babies hatched. I just get the feeling that you have been feeding them a thick mixture which they cannot digest.

I posted on treating crop stasis....you never updated us on what you had done other than to suggest thickening the mixture which was the exact opposite of what you were advised to do.
*
Please try to get the baby to a sanctuary or a vet* who might be able to save this chick's life.


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

yes you do not want to use the medicated crumbs only the plain ...oh how you should of got prepaird while waiting to hatch... too late now.. hope the formula comes soon... perhaps you can find some baby food oatmeal add a cooked egg yolk blended well..and try it untill you get the formula.. hope she makes it..


----------



## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Spirit wings, the chick crumbs are fine...formula won't help unless it is prepared properly. If the formula is served too thick you will have the same effect.

What this baby needs is to be taken to someone that has experience of hand raising baby pigeons.


----------



## [email protected] (May 21, 2011)

What shall I do with the bird, should I take him to the vet ?
Would they look after it?


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Feefo said:


> Spirit wings, the chick crumbs are fine...formula won't help unless it is prepared properly. If the formula is served too thick you will have the same effect.
> 
> What this baby needs is to be taken to someone that has experience of hand raising baby pigeons.


he said they are medicated..so Im confused.. have always been told not to use the medicated chick starter.. either it is or is not...so your saying it is ok to use the medicated?.. that is not what I have been told. it has a mild Coccidistat ...


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

any update on this?...


----------



## [email protected] (May 21, 2011)

Sadly the second chick passed away 
I'm sure it was the medicated chick crumbs as the medicated chick crumbs are even bad for ducks.
I didn't know about the chick crumbs.
I followed everything on the link feefo gave me.
I made the formula very thin , as tea.
But sadly he didn't make it


----------



## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

That is very sad. Sorry to hear it.

I'm not sure you said anywhere what chick crumbs you got ... could you do a pic of the packet? If nothing else, it may tell us what to avoid in future.

Thanks.


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

gosh, Im sorry, you gave it your best.


----------

