# Please help!!!



## Hatopoppo (Jan 20, 2010)

I picked up this injured pigeon on last Friday, about 10pm. It was sitting at the corner of the street. 

Its left wing is drooping. While I was examining the injured wing, I found a some kind of skin infection around the shoulder. It looks like a rash but there is a bluish patch like a bruise, or it can also look like mold on the surface. 

The bird is eating well. Poop is greenish, brownish diarrhea and smells very bad. It is very quiet, sitting and standing. Also its both feet are terribly disfigured because of the strings been wrapped up. 

I rescued a female pigeon two years ago. Thanks to the information I got from this wonderful site, she was cured and now she is with me. But I do not know what to do with this one. Please give me an advice so that he is able to fly again. 

I live in Queens, Astoria, NY.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Need one of those rehab"s on this situation----looks like Paratyphoid--with that sore on its wing joint and you had it now for 4 days "whats it situation now"--I"m surprised it is still alive---What have you fed and hydrated with???? Wash those feet in Warm water and Epson salts or Betadine--A very sick bird.....c.herts


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Can you get the bird here? Or ask them to make a referal closer to you.

The Wild Bird Fund, Inc.
c/o Animal General
558 Columbus Ave
New York, NY 10024
646-306-2862
Animal General is located on the northwest corner of Columbus and West 87th Street
http://www.wildbirdfund.com/


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## Hatopoppo (Jan 20, 2010)

I called the number, but it did not answer the call at this moment. I try to bring the bird there. I hope it is not too late.

I fed pigeon & dove seed that I purchased from the pet store. I put a drop of ACV in water. I don't know if it is drinking. I washed the feet already. 

It is eating now. It is very quiet, standing.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

It is good that he is standing and eating. Sounds like he may be OK if you can get him to someone with some experience. Keep trying to call that telephone umber. ALSO, try the telephone number on this website:

www.nycprc.org

.....they are good people....and usually respond quickly...within the hour or so.

And...thanks for saving him !!!!!


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## Hatopoppo (Jan 20, 2010)

I left the message, the machine said they will here the message at 5pm. so I was going to bring the bird there right now, but the website says appointment only. 

It is my fault that I did not ask you guys as soon as I picked up. 

The bird is now sitting.


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## Hatopoppo (Jan 20, 2010)

Thank you 

Jaye, I just called New york city pigeon central. No one picked up the phone. I left the message. Hope someone will return my call soon.


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## Hatopoppo (Jan 20, 2010)

I got a call from the wild bird fund, Inc. I am going to bring the pigeon there tomorrow. Is there anythig I can do for this pigeon in the meantime?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Make sure he is eating and drinking and keep him warm until you can get him there.


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## Hatopoppo (Jan 20, 2010)

Update

I took the pigeon to the Wild bird fund, inc. The vet was very very nice. 
She removed all the embedded strings on its both feet. Its left wing was broken, but mending by itself. She recommended to keep it in the cage for a while. The bird also had viral infection. She gave me Baytril for it. Hopefully it will heal in a few weeks, but there is some concern about its tilting head. Can't tell anything about this right now, we just have to wait and see. 

The bird is eating and drinking well. It is looking much better.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

What a great update. Thanks. Those feet looked very bad. What did the vet say about his chances for the feet to heal? How do they look now? Does she think he will be able to fly well again, or is the wing too damaged? Can you post a picture in a few days maybe? You were very lucky to find a good vet.Thanks again.


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## Columba livia! (May 4, 2009)

hope it works out. keep us posted.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

Hope all goes well with the pigeon.

Can you get us a photo of him when he has recovered, looking better? That would be so nice. Keep us updated. Thanks.

Larry


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## Hatopoppo (Jan 20, 2010)

I just went to check the bird. his neck was twisted, down on the floor. I was very worried about the neck because it tilted to one side all the time. But now it is twisted. Will call the vet first thing tomorrow morning. Yes, I am very lucky to have a nice vet. I'd like to thank Charis for that. 

His feet are healing now. The vet told me to dip his feet in the warm water twice a day so that the wound will fill up. It was about an hour and half procedure. He struggled at first as the pain killer was not working yet. He became calm afterwards. He was very very strong. I am very very proud of him. It is terrible that he had to go through such an unnecessay pain since he was born. It breaks my heart to see these innocent ones suffering like this. I try to pick up as many strings as possible whenever I find on the street. I could not take a good picture of his feet. I will post when I get one. The new feathers are growing on the injured wing. Poops looking better, no smell. 

However things turn out, we will take care of him. He's already found a home. 

Here are pictures taken yesterday.


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## M Kurps (Mar 19, 2009)

You have and are doing a great job Hatopoppo,there should be more like you.
Kurps


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

What a beautiful little pij. You really are doing a great job. Thanks for caring for him. Please keep us posted on what the vet says.


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## ThePigeonKid (Jan 15, 2009)

WOW, you have done a great job!!!


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## Mindy (Apr 2, 2009)

You are doing a great job. Glad you have given him a home and a chance at life. It is sad to see an animal suffer and I only hope everyone would stop and help an animal. If they just do it once they will keep doing it over and over and it will be life changing for them and for the animals they save. min


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## Hatopoppo (Jan 20, 2010)

Thank you all for your reply.

I talked to the vet. His neck is not good sign. It could be PMV. The good sign is he is eating. He's been on Baytril for 5 days. Give him 2 more days, then we'll see, the vet said. she is concerned for my other bird, for it is highly contageous. I am new to PMV, been reading the threads on this matter. 

He is eating well, he's gotten stronger, tried to peck at my finger and made sounds ( of course both are still weak, but good sign ) when I took him out of the cage for medication. Each day he seems to be getting stronger. With PMV, the vet said the bird stops eating. But he's been eating well. 

can't sleep well. worried so much. will keep you posted.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

> With PMV, the vet said the bird stops eating.


"Stops eating": does the vet mean (1) the bird can't eat, or (2) the bird won't eat?

With the feral PMV pigeons I have rescued (and I am sure they had PMV, although I did not do or have done microscopic lab work to PROVE my "amateur" diagnosis) the pigeons "stopped eating" because roughly 9 times out of 10 they pecked the ground next to the seed or bit of food, that is, a few millimeters away from the seed. If the pigeon was among other pigeons, it gave them the chance to get the food away from the PMV pigeon. If the PMV pigeon did happen to pick up the seed, he often raised his head in a spasm and "threw" the seed to the side. Occasionally he would manage to swallow the seed. 

This is a link to YouTube, to a video clip I made of PMV squeaker *Jimmy-Z* tossing seeds. I rescued Jimmy-Z on October 23, 2008 (on my brother *Jimmy*'s birthday; on *Z*wirnerstrasse in Cologne, Germany). I hand-fed Jimmy-Z two or three times a day , and he recovered, and flew off from our balcony to join the local flock in January 2009. He had a plastic band on one leg, and I verified that he was around and behaving like a normal male pigeon as late as last summer. Another PMV pigeon with a milder case also recovered and flew off.

I have fond memories of Jimmy-Z. He liked to turn his head upside-down and rest it against my hand, for the warmth and contact, for five or ten minutes, even after he stopped showing symptoms of neck-twisting and other signs of PMV. I also have videos of Jimmy-Z having fun roo-cooing and attacking his mirror image, after his voice changed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1iN7cR12XA

Larry


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## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

Hatopoppo, thank you for caring for this bird.

I just want to make a few points: 

1) The person who treated your bird is NOT a vet but a licensed wildlife rehabber who works out of a vet clinic. It's important to make this distinction.

2) Not all PMV birds stop eating on their own. I actually have yet to find one PMV pigeon (and I've had dozens over the years) who has not been able to eat out of a dish of seeds.

3) I've kept PMV birds separated from other birds (in a one-bedroom apartment) and have never had issues with contagion. I know others who have done the same. Keep the new bird in his own cage as far away from your other bird(s) as possible, handle him after you've handled the others, and make sure to wash your hands well.

If you need help, I'm in Queens also. You can send me an email through this forum.

Jennifer


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## Hatopoppo (Jan 20, 2010)

Thank both of you for your reply.

Larry,

I happened to see this video yesterday because I wanted to know more about the PMV symptoms. So Jimmy-Z was your bird! How adorable! I am so glad to hear that he recovered and flew off. I do not know exactly what she meant by 'stops eating' , but i guess she meant by 'can't eat'. My pigeon ate a little this morning. He is not tossing the seeds but eating from the side. Yesterday he mostly stood up and ate more, but today he's sitting, his neck down, seems to be difficult to lift it up. I really do hope he will recover and be able to fly again. You should never give up, so it seemed Jimmy-Z was saying. 

Jennifer,

I also live in a one-bedroom apartment, and this is what i worried about the most. i was not sure if i really could keep my bird away from pmv pigeon. it is a great relief that you actually can. Thank you so much. It truelly is a great relief. I will definitely e-mail you when i need help.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

Jennifer and Hatopoppo,

When I had squeaker PMV *Mr. Fifty* (found on my wife's 50th birthday), we too were in a one-room apartment. Kept Mr. Fifty in the same pet carrier *Jimmy-Z* later occupied. Mr. Fifty was also scalped when found. He had to watch a couple of other squeakers grow up ear him but apart from him. He recovered and flew off. My wife saw him a year later, doing quite well. Most of the city pigeons I have been able to individually recognize, tell apart, I see for a year or two, maybe three at the most. Our rescued-as-a-baby- and hand-raised *Wieteke* raised several pairs of youngsters at our small place, and was not quite three years old when I last saw him June 15, 2008, on Father's Day. He had a good diet, food always available at our place, and lived on the street with the local pigeons. 

Larry


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The only thing dangerous about releasing a PMV survivor is that in times of stress, the PMV symptoms can return. If that happened, the bird would be in trouble.


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## Larry_Cologne (Jul 6, 2004)

Jay3,

I agree. 

Releasing the birds was the only option I had. I was facing eviction at one time.

It may be that by helping the occasional pigeon in immediate need, I was possibly endangering the rest of the flock. One cannot know the answer to this without comprehensive lab studies and comprehensive statistical sampling.

It may also be that by strengthening a PMV bird's immune system with hand-feeding and supplementary vitamins, since I could not medicate for the PMV itself, the bird would help propagate a weaker strain of PMV which other birds could more readily resist. My rescued birds did survive their bouts of PMV for some time after release.

I think that, I hope that, I may have helped not only the individual bird enjoy life a bit longer, but also the flock.

Larry


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Larry_Cologne said:


> Jay3,
> 
> I agree.
> 
> ...


We do what we can and hope for a good outcome.


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## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

Hatopoppo,

If your PMV bird isn't eating enough on his own, you can supplement by hand feeding larger seeds like peas and corn. Is he drinking? It's important to make sure they are well hydrated, but if he has little control over his movements, be careful that he doesn't land in the water dish and not be able to get out.

Larry,

The avian vet I see says that PMV is not contagious once symptoms appear. Not sure what studies that is based on, but I can ask the next time I speak to him. Research Cynthia has cited indicates that it's contagious for a 6-week period (following onset of symptoms, I presume). In either case, I doubt you are endangering your local flock, and I do think there is inherent value to a bird being able to be free even if his lifespan might be shorter than that in captivity.

Jennifer


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I read online that PMV birds who have recovered can be asymptomatic and not show signs of the disease, but still spread it. I don't think that is very common though. Don't know. Maybe someone with more experiance can give some input.


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## Hatopoppo (Jan 20, 2010)

Jennifer, 

He is having fits. He is not eating on his own. I defrosted peas and corns and hand-fed him today. How many should I give him? Can I give him some pellets? I need to give him vitamin supplement or something. Correct? No, he is not drinking. I dipped his beak in water, but he did not seem to be drinking, did not open his beak. How can I make him drink?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Have you tried dipping his beak in a small dish of water?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Sorry.....I notice you did try to dip his beak. Can you take a 1cc syringe, and 1 cc at a time, way to the back of the birds throat, past his windpipe, and to the birds left side, put a cc of water at a time down his throat? If you are going back to the vet, maybe they could show you how, and maybe show you how to tube feed. As far as the peas and corn, you would give about 50 at a time, and again when his crop empties. Maybe a couple of times a day.


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## Hatopoppo (Jan 20, 2010)

Jay3, 

I have this syringe(1cc=1ml). Do you think this will work?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes. Can you put a cc at a time way to the back of his throat, past his windpipe, and down his throat? You have to be very careful, or you can drown him.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

The peas and corn do hold moisture too. So that helps.


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## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

Hato, do you have a dish of seeds in there with him? Does he ever try to eat?

What kind of pellets do you have? It's probably fine to hand-feed those in addition to or instead of the peas/corn. If you start feeding the pellets, I don't think he needs any additional vitamin supps. 

Are the droppings moist or do they look dry? If you already know how to medicate with a 1cc syringe, you can give him water the same way. You'll have to do this several times in order to get anything substantial in him. If you have powdered vitamins, you could put this in with the water you give him.

Jennifer


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## Hatopoppo (Jan 20, 2010)

Jay3 said:


> Sorry.....I notice you did try to dip his beak. Can you take a 1cc syringe, and 1 cc at a time, way to the back of the birds throat, past his windpipe, and to the birds left side, put a cc of water at a time down his throat? If you are going back to the vet, maybe they could show you how, and maybe show you how to tube feed. As far as the peas and corn, you would give about 50 at a time, and again when his crop empties. Maybe a couple of times a day.


Jay3, 

You said "way to the back of the birds throat, past his windpipe", you mean I have to insert the tip of the syringe as far down as possible?

"to the birds left side", you mean I should aim towards the left?

Thank you.


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## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

Hato,

I think you mentioned that the bird was on Baytril? Were you giving that orally? You can use the same method for syringing water.

Otherwise, if you open the bird's beak and look inside, you'll see an opening just at the base of the tongue that looks like this: () That's the glottis and that's where you DON'T want the syringe going. If you go past that opening with the syringe, you'll end up in the esophagus, which is what you want. You don't have to put the syringe all the way down. About 1/3- or 1/2-way down should do it. You also want to make sure you are holding the neck completely straight and extended when you do this so you don't risk rupturing the esophagus.

Jennifer


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## Hatopoppo (Jan 20, 2010)

jenfer said:


> Hato, do you have a dish of seeds in there with him? Does he ever try to eat?
> 
> What kind of pellets do you have? It's probably fine to hand-feed those in addition to or instead of the peas/corn. If you start feeding the pellets, I don't think he needs any additional vitamin supps.
> 
> ...


Jennifer,

I took the dish out, because he was not eating. I did not see him trying either. Should I put it back in case he starts eating on his own? 

I feed him "Sunseed's Sunscription Vita Dove & Pigeon Formula". This is the seeds contains some highly fortified pellets. 

The droppings are moist. Is there any way to know he is getting enough food? By weighing him? He does not seem to be weak though, because when I take him out I can feel his strength. But I want to be sure he is getting enough nutrition. 

Thank you


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## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

Hato,

I would put the dish back so that if wants to eat, he can try. If you can get your hands on some pigeon mix (which has bigger seeds than the commercial pigeon/dove mixes), he might find those seeds easier to pick up.

I was concerned that he wasn't getting enough hydration, which is why I asked whether the droppings were moist or dry. If you have a gram scale, you can weigh him to see if he's holding steady or losing/gaining. You can also feel his keel (the bone in the center of the chest) so see if it feels prominent. If it feels sharp, then he's thin. If you can feel a good amount of muscle on either side, he may be normal weight.

Jennifer


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## Hatopoppo (Jan 20, 2010)

jenfer said:


> Hato,
> 
> I think you mentioned that the bird was on Baytril? Were you giving that orally? You can use the same method for syringing water.
> 
> ...


Jennifer,

We were giving him a pill cut in quarters. I have no experience with the syringe. I will try.

Thank you.


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## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

Hato,

Probably the easiest way to do this is to wrap him in a towel so that you can use one hand to extend the neck and the other to insert the syringe. If the syringe doesn't go in easily or the bird struggles, then I would abandon this idea for now.

The other way you can get water into him is drop by drop from the outside of the beak with an eyedropper or syringe. He won't drown as long as you do one drop at a time.

Jennifer


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## Hatopoppo (Jan 20, 2010)

Jennifer,

I've just finished giving him water. I think it went well. The bird did not struggle either. 

He is thin. His keel feels sharp. Today I've fed him 90 peas and corns and 5 pellets so far. Should I feed him more? I have lentils and soy beans in my cupboard. Can I add these when I hand-feed him and to this dish too? 

Thank you so much!!!


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## Tamara21 (Jun 24, 2009)

I would stick with the peas and corn...I did carrots too while mine was recovering...you know the mixed veggie mix. You should feed him every couple of hours....but I am not experienced with PMV so they may advise you not to.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I'd stick with the peas and corn, but leave the seed in with him, although as was mentioned by jenfer, the larger seeds in pigeon mix would be easier for him to pick up. But don't think you could get that unless you buy a huge bag. The defrosted peas and corn are even easier to pick up, and they also have some moisture in them. Go with those. Give him around 50, then wait for his crop to empty. You'll probably have to feed 2 or 3 times a day. Morning, middle to late afternoon, and again before bed time, if the crop has emptied. How did you get the water into him? Drop by drop would take too long to get a substantial amount in. You're doing a good job.


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## Hatopoppo (Jan 20, 2010)

Ok, I'll stick with peas and corns. I got the water into him with the syringe, not drop by drop but a small amount at a time. I put the seed back into his cage. 

Thank you.


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## Rockie (Jan 18, 2005)

Thank you for helping this pigeon...you're doing a great job.

Like previously suggested, it would be important to monitor his weight every day, if possible.

Does his head still turn upside down? If so, is it upside down most of the time or does it happen mainly when you approach or startle him? Does it seem to be more of a reaction to you or just simply the way he holds himself?


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## Hatopoppo (Jan 20, 2010)

Rockie said:


> Thank you for helping this pigeon...you're doing a great job.
> 
> Like previously suggested, it would be important to monitor his weight every day, if possible.
> 
> Does his head still turn upside down? If so, is it upside down most of the time or does it happen mainly when you approach or startle him? Does it seem to be more of a reaction to you or just simply the way he holds himself?


Yes, his head turns upside down most of the time. It seems to be the way he holds himself. Most of the time, he is sitting, head upside down. Sometimes he has fits. 

I will monitor his weight more closely.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You're doing good. Please keep us posted.


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## Hatopoppo (Jan 20, 2010)

He's been eating on his own. He's eaten about 11/2 Tablespoon so far. He eats from the sideways. Today, he is calm, less fits. Looks like today is a good day.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I'm glad that today things are a bit better.


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## Hatopoppo (Jan 20, 2010)

I have seen many mites or lice on him. How do you help a PMV pigeon bathe? and also how do you dry him afterward?


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Bathing isn't going to get rid of mites or lice. You can buy sevin garden dust 5%, in hardware stores or garden centers. Grain places might sell permethrin powder. Dust him with it, but don't go near the head or eyes. Or a pet shop would sell bird spray.

You can help him bath by filling a good sized bowl or kitty kitter pan with warm, not hot, and gently lower him into 2 or 3 inches of water. Hold him there so that he can't lose his balance. I would dry him at least part way with a hair dryer set on low, and not blowing too hard. But it won't get rid of the bugs. It may feel good to him.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

I have a pigeon in its 16th day of the virus pmv and just yesterday it had enough of coordination to actually get some seed that it throws in the air. Today it is doing much better and losing less seed for its aim on eating and holding the seed is so much better. I have been support feeding with pigeon mix and water now about 4 or 5 times a day but now--thank goodness it is finally eating on its own ---and looks very beautiful and is getting well...This is no antibiotic or medicine for this disease and it has to take its course which is about 4 to 6 weeks so give it time and make sure the bird is gaining weight and getting enough of water... When I get a wild bird I dip it in warm water instead of the dust and wash it at the same time (when I say wash I mean fluffing the water around the bird--no soap---. I dip it with Permectrin 11 and I mix 1/2 oz to a gallon of water and dip the bird up to its beak-open its wings-and spread its tail to get it totally wet and then dry it off by wrapping a nice soft towel on it to get the surplus water and use a hair dryer if you have one but the most important thing is to keep it warm and it will dry and the permectrin 2 will last few about three months..I would wait to do this bird until it is fully eating and drinking well by itself..You can buy a 8 oz jar of this stuff from Foys pigeon supply and in the spring I do all my birds getting ready for the summer season....I don't like the dust----its does wonderful ---but I like the dip better but the powder is good when you can't or don't want to get the bird wet.. Do not use in its drinking water and don't get any on its face and eyes--it is a poison and should be handled with care....c.hert


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

The plastic container of this stuff Permectrin 11 says : 1 oz to a gallon mixture: but I use less: 1/2 oz to a gallon and that seems to solve the problem...My pigeons are clean...no bugs or lice or anything and it does somewhat put a shine to them...c.hert


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I don't see a reason to wait til he is eating on his own. You need to get rid of the bugs now. They are multiplying and will be all over. They will also debilitate him further. The powder is safe as long as you don't get it in his eyes, and it works great. And it's the quickest and easiest thing to get.

Just to add, again--keep it away from his head.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I agree with Jay...best to get rid of the bugs ASAP. The powder does work great.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Yea the powder works wonderful and can get it now so use it now--sounds good to me but since the person wants to bath I was just suggesting how to do it all in one time if she decided to bathe--just wanted the pigeon eating on its own because of the illness it has and to give it time before bathing it---but powder is good even spray as well--just different modes of action here---all good....c.hert


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## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

Hato, do you see actual mites? Those are usually quite small and hard to spot. Lice are more obvious and look like walking splinters. I wouldn't worry about lice as much as I'd worry about mites. I'm not a fan of powders, but you can use a mite/lice spray from a pet store (these are usually permethrin-based) and spray him with that, making sure to avoid the head/eyes. I tend to use ivermectin topically for mites (put 1-2 drops on the basilic vein under the wing). 

Bathing will help with the lice. I often also just pick them off with my fingers. If you bathe him, you'll want to be very careful not to leave him unattended so he doesn't drown by accident.

Jennifer


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## Hatopoppo (Jan 20, 2010)

I sprayed him. Hope they are dead. I saw some brown ones, white ones, brown-red ones. His feathers are bit oily too. Where he was around there were four vendors. I saw him hiding under one of them in the daytime, so I could not catch him then. I went back there at night. He was still under the vendor. I went back home and went back there again around 10 pm. There he was sitting at the corner of the street. He's been hiding there for many hours. I think that's how he got oil into his feathers. I want to get rid of this oil. In order to do so, I suppose he needs a bath.


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## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

Hato, you can eventually bathe him with Dawn dish detergent to get rid of the oil, but you don't need to do it right away. I'd wait until he was steadily eating on his own and seeming otherwise well.


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## Hatopoppo (Jan 20, 2010)

Today while I was wrapping him in a towel, he sort of vomited. Nothing really came out. But I saw just a little bit of sticky substance on his beak. Do you think he's gotten nervous? or should I worry about this? Is it safe to feed him soon after he vomits? 

Thank you.


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I think I'd wait a while before feeding him.


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## Hatopoppo (Jan 20, 2010)

My pmv pigeon has been regurgitating. I saw some transparent sticky substance coming out from his beak. But it does not smell. I feel like he's having a digestion problem over the past few days. Not many droppings and smell a little. What do you think this is??? Do you think this is serious??

Thank you very much


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## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

Hato, if you open his beak and look inside, do you see mucus there?

Are you still hand feeding him, or does he eat on his own? If he eats on his own, could there be few droppings because he's not eating much?

Jennifer


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## Hatopoppo (Jan 20, 2010)

Jennifer,

I checked. No mucus or anything. I am still hand feeding him.


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