# Most expensive young bird ever bought



## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

Here is an interesting gamble. If I figured it correctly, it is approximately $131,692.00 USD.

96,000 Euro for a young bird! Wow! Somebody has too much money.

http://www.pipa.be/en/newsandarticles/news/spectacle-thorn-most-expensive-youngster-ever-sold


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## g0ldenb0y55 (Dec 23, 2008)

That's simply amazing! I wish I had a few of those types of birds to auction of myself! =)


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## Mindy (Apr 2, 2009)

AMAZING!!! Can one bird really be worth that much? min


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

When I was a lot younger I looked something like the young lady holding the bird--it just too bad I don't have her money that she bought the bird with--tooo baddd..c.hert


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

Right On...c.hert


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## irishsyndicate (Sep 19, 2008)

conditionfreak said:


> Here is an interesting gamble. If I figured it correctly, it is approximately $131,692.00 USD.
> 
> 96,000 Euro for a young bird! Wow! Somebody has too much money.
> 
> http://www.pipa.be/en/newsandarticles/news/spectacle-thorn-most-expensive-youngster-ever-sold


Looks like Koopman was the underbidder? 

I witnessed the sale of Birdy at the Million Dollar Race a few years ago. Birdy then sold for about $100,000 US ...

I got the feeling that it was more ego than anything else.... the guy was sipping wine and bidding


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## Pigeon0446 (Apr 22, 2007)

seanG said:


> NO pigeon is worth that much money. That lady is so stupid. seriously go spend your money on alot of good birds rather then over 125,000 on one bird. that guy dosent have the worlds most amazing pigeons that they would be so valuble. i bet you could buy a bird for at most 2,000 that would be as good. and if i had that kind of money i would not spend it in a pigeon i would do somthing SMART with it or donate


If they paid that much at an auction that means there's atleast one other person who thinks the bird is worth almost that much. So I guess the bird is worth it to them. And what good would a bunch of good 2,000 dollar birds do for them just overcrowed their coop. Your dealing with ppl that have the best of the best already they aren't gonna improve their stock by adding a bunch of garbage they gotta go for what they think is the best and if the best cost that much they are willing to pay it. At the same time some pigeon ppl just like to collect the big named birds so they have some kinda prestige in the sport. It's just like any other collectors. Take art collectors they spend millions on paintings I know I would never spend millions on a painting but maybe if I ever won the lotto I'd spend a 100 grand on a pigeon I really thought would improve my loft.


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## Kal-El (Oct 10, 2008)

The over/under on the big advertisements on this bird is one year!


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

Mindy said:


> AMAZING!!! Can one bird really be worth that much? min


When you have lots of one particular commodity (including money), its value decreases, thats "behavioral economics"  when you have tons and tons of whisky with you, you might give off some bottles but if you hadn't have access to a peg for years, you know that single bottle you got is not going anywhere


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

The most expensive yearling or under that I've bought was probably about $25, LOL. Such a huge price difference.


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## c.hert (Jan 15, 2010)

I got you beat MaryofExeter for I paid 175.00 one time at a pigeon auction for a racing pigeon...--wish I had the money now---but I do have a pretty bird...c.hert


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## sreeshs (Aug 16, 2009)

MaryOfExeter said:


> The most expensive yearling or under that I've bought was probably about $25, LOL. Such a huge price difference.


Worse here, the most expensive which I ever bought is for 1500 INR for a pair, thats some 32 USD for the pair


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## Xueoo (Nov 20, 2009)

That is why Koopman and Veenstra don't come to us for pigeons...we go to them...

It seems a lot of folks on this forum are smarter than the likes of Koopman and Veenstra. Maybe it's a stupid idea to buy a pigeon for $100,000 and sell babies for $10,000-$20,000 each....


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

Well, the truth is. One mans fortune is anouther mans lunch money. And I am not exagerating.

Here is a question for you. If you only had 20K in your savings account, would you pay 20K for your daughters wedding, or spend 20K for Sure Bets' best son?

(P.S. Your daughter is likely as not, to just be married to "that guy" for two or three years. You could sell the offsrping from Sure Bets' best son for a thousand a piece easily)

Now, what was your answer again?


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## Xueoo (Nov 20, 2009)

conditionfreak said:


> Well, the truth is. One mans fortune is anouther mans lunch money. And I am not exagerating.
> 
> *Here is a question for you. If you only had 20K in your savings account, would you pay 20K for your daughters wedding, or spend 20K for Sure Bets' best son?*
> 
> ...


Of course the normal man would spend it on the wedding, as would I. But, the man who is spending $20,000 for a pigeon doesn't "only had 20K in your savings account". He likely has another $20,000 or more in there.

The man who *needs* to make a decision to either pay for his daughters wedding, or a racing pigeon, either has a bad relationship with his daughter...or, is truely stupid and doesn't have his priorities straight. That man has other mental issues (gambling addiction, spending addiction, etc) to deal with. 

Now, assuming a "normal" man, who makes a decent living, is a pigeon racer. He makes enough money to pay the bills and has a little leftover every month he saves. Breeding season is coming up. He has been sending birds to the races for the past few years and has about broke even. He has been thinking about purchasing a cock to put over his hens to maybe up the percentage to get in the bigger money. He see's a son of (_______) on auction. This loft has been winning consistantly with those birds for some time. The bid is running close to $4000. The "normal" man has budgeted $5000 max he would spend. 

In this case, would it be "stupid" for him to spend that much money, knowing where he's at now and what his goal is?


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## Mindy (Apr 2, 2009)

How do they prove that the babies actually came from that expensive bird? Do they do blood test? Is that a stupid question? I'm new remember!! min


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

This is all so fascinating. I'd like to ask a related series of questions:

Let's say you are looking for a pair of birds that can 1) breed babies that can win distance races at the combine level and 2) breed babies that can be sold based on this pair's pedigree and reputation.

Based on what I'm reading in this thread, a $100k bird would most likely do that. But obviously that's out of reach of most of us. So in more realistic terms, what kind of money would it take to do what I'm asking (a realistic range of prices), and what loft or specific strain would YOU turn to? Would you recommend to buy a proven pair (I would expect them to cost more$$, but then why would someone want to sell them?), or would you buy babies of super-birds and hope they work out? How many generations down from a super-bird is too far for what I'm asking?

Do you look at bird's mentioned in another recent thread like from Bob Durha's loft?

http://www.racingpigeonauction.com/Auction/XcAPViewInCat.asp?ID=262

And for the record, the daughter's wedding comes first


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

seanG said:


> you can buy as good of a bird as that lady bought for 1,000$ at most you can buy top quality birds for 1,000 a pair and beat that lady.


I have no doubt that a good pair can be bought or had for $50-$1000 that can raise babies to beat many lofts out there. But it's the second part of my question that I think takes it another level. The model pair I'm asking about would need to have a pedigree and/or reputation and record that would drive sales of their babies right off the bat.


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

Mindy. A DNA test is possible I would assume. I have heard of it being done. But in most cases, 99.999% of the time, it is based on the reputation of the seller.

Now I can see taking a 130K bird and using a boat load of pumpers to raise the eggs from said bird. Then selling all of those babies for several thousand dollars a piece, and eventually making a profit.

But imagine the purchaser of this 131K young bird, actually racing it. It won't happen. It will only be used to produce babies for sale. I doubt any babies from this bird will even be raced by the new owner. Just sold on its pedigree and the historic factor.

As to the wedding and bird scenario I presented. I was not interjecting "real life" into the equation. Because sure, it is doubtful that if someone only has 20K in their savings account, that they would spend it on ANY one thing. But the question is too show that people make dumb choices all of the time. Spending large amounts of money on weddings is just dumb. Spending large amounts of money on pigeons is also dumb, but has the "possibility" of producing an income and even making a profit. That makes the wedding expenditure the "more" dumb idea financially, of the two choices.

I actually think the buyer of this young bird, will make a profit over the long haul. But it is a gamble. What happens with that "investment" after some birds are bought by someone in Japan or China for big amounts of money, and they actually fly the darn things and they don't do any better than the guys other birds?

Then the price goes down. But if the prodigy go on to win, like Sure Bets have, then there is money to be made.

There is also the "I own this" factor. Just haing the bragging rights in someones circle of acquantices that you have the most expensive "this or that", can mean a lot to a certain type of personality. That is why some of the really rich spend a little more on their daughters wedding than the other guy did last month. Before you know it, they are speding four million dollars for a lavish wedding that becomes a divorce in a couple of years. It ain't about having a great wedding. It is about surpassing the Jones's.

Silly stuff no matter how you look at it. All of the money spent on weddings. ANYONE that spends a half million dollars for a wedding dress, IMO, has mental and/or emotional problems. Even IF a half million to them is no big amount. It is still silly.

So. Buying this bird is not the worst expenditure of money I have ever seen.


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## Mindy (Apr 2, 2009)

I want to give my opinion on big weddings, SAVE YOUR MONEY. I have had a couple good size weddings and both of them didn't work out. But the last one, we walked up a mountain in Sedona, AZ and got hitched by a new age Priest. Probably only spent $100 dollars and still married to that one. Actually my advice is DON'T get married, live together and live happily ever after. If I had to do over again, I wouldn't probably get married at all. For some reason I think people are more willing to work at the relationshipe if they aren't married, probably because they know either one can leave anytime. Its to easy to get a divorce nowadays and remember 50% of marriage don't work out. But good luck. 

Conditionfreak, thank you for the explanation. I have learned a lot from you on here. min


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## BTut (Oct 18, 2009)

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> That's simply amazing! I wish I had a few of those types of birds to auction of myself! =)


I Have a few anyone want to buy them ill deliver


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

Ha Ha. From birds to marriage. I love it.

I guess it is my fault though. But still. It's funny how threads can go in so many different directions.

As to living together and not getting hitched to the one who you are sleeping with or will/may have children with. I am old school. Marriage is mandatory in my world. Especially if children will be involved. I have two sons that are "living together" with their girlfriends, and it bothers me to no end. I am constantly harping on them to tie the knot. There are reasons that marriage was "invented". Too many to list here.

Used to be that a child out of wedlock was hidden, embarrasing, etc. Now it is no big deal.

Sad. But the way of the world now.

(I'm too old I guess)


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## Mindy (Apr 2, 2009)

I agree, I actually love being married, its great if two people want it. But after my mom and dad divorced after 37 years of marriage I look at things alittle differently. 

No children here, but I agree if there are children, do the children a favor, get married. min


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## BTut (Oct 18, 2009)

Mindy said:


> I want to give my opinion on big weddings, SAVE YOUR MONEY. I have had a couple good size weddings and both of them didn't work out. But the last one, we walked up a mountain in Sedona, AZ and got hitched by a new age Priest. Probably only spent $100 dollars and still married to that one. Actually my advice is DON'T get married, live together and live happily ever after. If I had to do over again, I wouldn't probably get married at all. For some reason I think people are more willing to work at the relationshipe if they aren't married, probably because they know either one can leave anytime. Its to easy to get a divorce nowadays and remember 50% of marriage don't work out. But good luck.
> 
> Conditionfreak, thank you for the explanation. I have learned a lot from you on here. min


Mindy i am married to the same woman for 27 years she has put up with me for over 30 years i will have to keep her some things do work


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

Ha Ha

I have been married for 37 years and was "going steady" with her for over ten years before we got married.

But I still tell her every now and then that I"m not sure this marriage is going to work out. 

I tell her that she is still on "probation". 

(she has a good sense of humor about my bad sense of humor) 



P.S. Does anybody "go steady" anymore? My sons and their friends all just say "we're friends, that's all". I haven't heard anyone say they were "going steady" for at least twenty years, maybe more.


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## BTut (Oct 18, 2009)

conditionfreak said:


> Ha Ha
> 
> I have been married for 37 years and was "going steady" with her for over ten years before we got married.
> 
> ...


Wow if its just friends i guess i have been unfaithfull i have a lot of friends


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## irishsyndicate (Sep 19, 2008)

Xueoo said:


> That is why Koopman and Veenstra don't come to us for pigeons...we go to them...
> 
> It seems a lot of folks on this forum are smarter than the likes of Koopman and Veenstra. Maybe it's a stupid idea to buy a pigeon for $100,000 and sell babies for $10,000-$20,000 each....


You hit the nail on the head !!!

It is not about the pigeon - it's about a business transaction !!!

So the pigeon could be a dud(as is usually the case), but with astute marketing and brand recognition - can bring in a fortune for CEO Koopman and CEO Veenstra.


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## Big T (Mar 25, 2008)

conditionfreak said:


> Well, the truth is. One mans fortune is anouther mans lunch money. And I am not exagerating.
> 
> Here is a question for you. If you only had 20K in your savings account, would you pay 20K for your daughters wedding, or spend 20K for Sure Bets' best son?
> 
> ...


No contest, Daughter's wedding!!! The money is applied to a lifetime memory. A wedding is a celebration of a union and a memory to be cherished. 20k on a bird for an investment is a gamble I would not make. I have insurance, 401k, IRA, and mutual funds for that.

Remember, life is nothing more than a span of time from birth to death. How you live life is how you will be judged. I live my life for my family. My birds are my hobby. I would never spend all my savings on my hobby. But, just so you know, my daughter's wedding did cost 15k and took all my savings.

God Bless,
Tony


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## Big T (Mar 25, 2008)

Mindy said:


> How do they prove that the babies actually came from that expensive bird? Do they do blood test? Is that a stupid question? I'm new remember!! min


With 999 posts you have to stop saying you are new. Also, it is not a stupid question. Mainly, reputation. But a buyer paying that kind of money may want a DNA test.

As for the 20 grand. The person paying may be financing his birds and racing as a business. This way he can write off any money paid out as an expense. 

Tony


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## Big T (Mar 25, 2008)

conditionfreak said:


> Ha Ha
> 
> I have been married for 37 years and was "going steady" with her for over ten years before we got married.
> 
> P.S. Does anybody "go steady" anymore? My sons and their friends all just say "we're friends, that's all". I haven't heard anyone say they were "going steady" for at least twenty years, maybe more.



Congrads on knowing when you have a good lady and knowing how to show her. 37 years is a lot of memories shared together.

As for the going steady, that is middle school stuff. Just ask my 17 year old daughter. She would know, she knows everything.

Tony


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## irishsyndicate (Sep 19, 2008)

seanG said:


> you can buy as good of a bird as that lady bought for 1,000$ at most you can buy top quality birds for 1,000 a pair and beat that lady.


That lady is Pipa's lady (not the buyer)...


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## never right (Feb 12, 2010)

Food for thought, What if the 96,000 Euro bird dies? Or what if she is sterile? 


p.s. Rhetorical questions not really wanting an answer


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## conditionfreak (Jan 11, 2008)

hmmm. Has anyone ever insured a racing pigeon. If they have, I am sure it was a breeder and not an actual racer.

I know that race horses are sometimes insured against injury, theft or death. So I assume that racing pigeons can be also. If I "invested" 131K in a breeder, I would certainly try to insure it if I could get fullinsurance for, say....$500 to 1000 a year.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

never right said:


> Food for thought, What if the 96,000 Euro bird dies? Or what if she is sterile?
> 
> 
> p.s. Rhetorical questions not really wanting an answer


Same thing happens if you had only paid $5..... You win some and you lose some.


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## SmithFamilyLoft (Nov 22, 2004)

conditionfreak said:


> Well, the truth is. One mans fortune is anouther mans lunch money. And I am not exagerating.
> 
> Here is a question for you. If you only had 20K in your savings account, would you pay 20K for your daughters wedding, or spend 20K for Sure Bets' best son?
> 
> ...


 Well....if I only had $20 grand in a savings account, then the reality is, I really could afford neither. But, since that is the question, I would suggest that the kid go down to the mayor's office and get hitched for free, because I could see "Investing" in some good pigeons, but I could not enjoy myself blowing $20 grand just so the daughter could show off and throw a party for her friends. If she marries good, then the groom should have some money, and if she learned anything from me, then she should have her own funds also. If they had any sense, they would put the $20 grand down on a home they could afford, and later throw a great wedding anniversary party for all their friends. 

Let's face it, if you are worth $50-$100 million, and you want to own something special in the racing pigeon world, then 96,000 Euro is no big deal. If on the other hand, you think a $20,000 wedding is a real big deal, then you could never imagine spending a $100,000 + on a pigeon, a car, or most likely anything else except perhaps a house. 

My brother is a dealer in what he refers to as "Vintage Collectable's" and he earns six figures a year selling "stuff" that most people threw away in the trash when we were kids. It never ceases to amaze me what people will pay to own certain things. If one has the money, and can afford it, then go for it. When you die you can't take it with you, and I'm not going to spoil the kids and ruin the chance for them to go out and make it in the world on their own and enjoy the process of earning their own success. I'm happy for the people that now own that 96,000 Euro bird !! Perhaps some day, people will be treating themselves to a few of my birds, and bidding 96,000 Euro's or even more !! I will be even more happy for them !! ....


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## hasseian_313 (Oct 31, 2009)

hi yah i heard of birds in kuwait that are going 100000 usd and you but they air racing hommer their called loot but 96000 euro is like 120,000 usd but yah racing hoomers can get pricey


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## RodSD (Oct 24, 2008)

Pigeons can be DNA tested and most of those birds sold like that are bred in independent breeding section so you are assure of their paternity.

With respect to Conditionfreak's sample, which I find funny, my answer is simple. Spend that money if your daughter marries the son of the person who breeds the surebet's bird. LOL!


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## hasseian_313 (Oct 31, 2009)

true iver heard of birds bought for cheap winning but i guess it just ppl wanting the best and to brag lol a if you got it speand it on somthing you love


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## cubanlofts (Sep 3, 2010)

He paid 96000 euros, He s gonna now to recluse that bird and make a million on it, u know, people r gonna want to buy some from that line and say, I have a pigeon that his line is 96000, In europe, the pigeon business is booming and I guess If someone have that kind of money to spent on A pigeon is because that person is not hurting, I assure u that pigeon will never fly outside of that buyer s loft.


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