# external feed / water gap size in wire?



## SEassassin (Jun 27, 2014)

Hello. I am very new to pigeons, and just set up a enclosure for my first pair of racing pigeons. I want to hang water and feed on outside of the cage. I used some old board to make a gap? I set the gap at 1 1/2 inches. Is this ok, or to big? Also the drinking platform 2x4 brace) seems to set the bird to high and can't seem to get to water. I have water at the bottom of pen but the birds seem to want to stay up on perches and ledges. Thank you!


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*PLEASE post a picture of the set up and cage so we can advise. There are a few simple rules to owning and keeping pigeons but those are extremely important.

My concern is that you don't want rats or mice or rain and weather getting into seed, that is dangerous to pigeons, never leave any extra seed out. Any openings in the barrier between your birds and the outside world larger then 1/4" is a danger to your birds.*


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Yes, a picture is really needed to see what you are describing. 
Is the cage outside where rodents could get in? Or get into the feed?


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## SEassassin (Jun 27, 2014)

Ah ha finally!!!! I have really slow internet and had to download a resizing program but alas..

Location: Deep S.E Texas, South side of house tucked 1 foot under back porch and full roof / wind block to the south and east/west. 1/2 mesh wire. Sun and wind are my main concerns as anything under 50 is COLD although this year we had late freezes like most the country. 

I built this to be moveable in panels because I don't know where I want to put it yet. If the city has no problems I may adjust it to fit into the deck. I raise gamefowl and they do a great job on mice control and any falling feed. We do have a snake problem. I loose some gamefowl babies each year to snakes and a lot of eggs and I am ok with that as long as they stay away from my pigeons..

The 1 1/2 inch gap in the old cedar 1x4's seems to be working. Keeping the birds in. Back to my question? I may have answered it myself? Looks like young birds may be able to get out of the space? Thanks for reading and responding!


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## newbiebulldoger (Apr 7, 2014)

i wish i was down south. i like your setup


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

You used hardware cloth to keep things out, but with that large gap running across where the food is will let rodents in. Mice and rats will make them sick, and rats will kill them. Also the feed and water need to be enclosed so that rodents and wild birds can't get into them. There are ways to set it up so that you can feed from outside, and yet keep it closed too, and keep the seed protected from birds and rodents.


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## newbiebulldoger (Apr 7, 2014)

i didnt think about that. good point


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## SEassassin (Jun 27, 2014)

ah valid points thank you. Im not to worried of rodents as vectors because our rodent population is very low and they would rather steal from the garden or the chicken coops next door then brave my back porch. Snakes on the other hand and foxes may make short work of my enclosure. The hardware cloth has me worried as it seems a very low gauge and I deal with foxes, skunks, and *****. But Jay you got me thinking of building a box type contraption around the gap and hinge a lid on it to keep out the pesky sparrows!


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

*I'd worry more about what could come inside. Cover all openings with 1/4" heavy gage hardware cloth is the best to keep out racoons and snakes and more.*


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## SEassassin (Jun 27, 2014)

Its 8x6x6 first thing I have built like this. I made a bed once lol. My wife is supportive of this as she has watched me raise game fowl many years and knows how much I love them, so when I told her Id sell them to raise pigeons she knew I was serious. We will see how it goes and if its for me then I happen to have an old shed that would make a nice real loft...


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## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

I'd go with the shed. Use the material you've already used to make a nice fly pen on the side. Should give you a better chance at keeping all the snakes, ***** etc. out and even though your fighting chickens might kill a mouse or little rat....none of your birds , pigeons or chickens should be where rodents can soil their feed....and they will.


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## SEassassin (Jun 27, 2014)

Well I'm not about to turn the shed into a loft yet. And in 10 or so years of raising "fighting chickens" never had a rodent problem. Keep your feed in metal trash cans and only feed what they eat in alotted time and clean up and should not be having those bad rodent problems.


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## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

Sorry....didn't mean to offend you, just a suggestion. Do as you please I guess. Enjoy your pigeons!


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

SEassassin said:


> ah valid points thank you. Im not to worried of rodents as vectors because our rodent population is very low and they would rather steal from the garden or the chicken coops next door then brave my back porch. Snakes on the other hand and foxes may make short work of my enclosure. The hardware cloth has me worried as it seems a very low gauge and I deal with foxes, skunks, and *****. But Jay you got me thinking of building a box type contraption around the gap and hinge a lid on it to keep out the pesky sparrows!


That would be great. Then just close up the rest of the space. As far as hardware cloth, the 1/2 inch is good, as long as it is like 19 gauge. Too light of a gauge, and they will chew through it. And raccoons are very strong.


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## SEassassin (Jun 27, 2014)

not offended just trying to stress this is in a mice free zone or close to it. More worry should be placed on sparrow coming by and being a vector. Or possible snake crawling up and into the space. I'm going to remedy this until then Dogs are positioned on porch until further Intel and command. Will build a tray under to make a lip to stop snakes from crawling up. Or just leave it be for now and let the dogs roam. I would ideally like to use the shed already but I need to move it and cut an old dead ash tree.


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## ThePigeonGene (May 30, 2014)

Definitely close that gap. Small birds like sparrows (or whatever equivalent you have) will pop in and out spreading worms, lice and disease. 

You can use the gap or part of the gap to attach a closed feeder 

either like this but bigger, along as much of the space as you will need for a full loft.









Or something like this (if it won't get hot in the sun for you) which you can put the actual feeder part inside the loft perhaps (as long as they can't poop in it obviously)









I'd make sure I can lock the lids of the feeders down at night just to secure them against anything curious and overly crafty


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## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I agree. And as far as mice and other rodents, they are everywhere, don't kid yourself. You may not see them, but they are there. They would have to open in the opposite direction to feed from the outside, but that could be made easily enough.


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## ThePigeonGene (May 30, 2014)

Jay3 said:


> I agree. And as far as mice and other rodents, they are everywhere, don't kid yourself. You may not see them, but they are there. They would have to open in the opposite direction to feed from the outside, but that could be made easily enough.


Ah! you're right. Didn;t realise that


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## PigeonVilla (Dec 8, 2010)

Just wire in that gap and build a cage with a door around your feeders for access and you should be fine .


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## SEassassin (Jun 27, 2014)

I appreciate the comments and ideas. I have been keeping the birds in the shed although I have not been able to work on it. Just screened the door. As far as the fly pen looking contraption I have decided to use it as a yb fly loft After I adjust it. In the front where the gap is I'm going to put a trap system and close it up a bit. Maybe a drop trap? I hope to be flying birds by next year. Well good days to all!


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