# new squeaker



## Aias (Nov 9, 2006)

found another squeaker today, very interesting looking, just sitting on top of a garbage can and a little out of it.

i just reached over and grabbed it and it just looked at me like what?! the squeaker didnt put up a fight at all and it doesnt know how to fly yet.

here it is:










and more photos here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/100fires/tags/april/ where you can peruse his caca. For the newbies out there, click on the thumbnail for a larger photo, click on the " All Sizes " icon for a more detailed photo.


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

That's an adorable squeaker, very pretty markings. Hope the flying
lessons go well.

fp


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## Aias (Nov 9, 2006)

cute huh?
this is the biggest squeaker that we have picked up, weighing in at 278 grams.  



feralpigeon said:


> That's an adorable squeaker, very pretty markings. Hope the flying
> lessons go well.
> 
> fp


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

He is so handsome and looks quite comfy on the lap.

Reti


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## Pete Jasinski (Jan 2, 2005)

He's quite the looker and I'm sure he's happy to join your flock even if it's only temporarily until he fledges.


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

What a beautiful little one! I'm glad you "found" each other!

Terry


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Aias,



Likely was 'flying' somewhat...( this is almost certainly a fledged Pigeon) ...then became a downer-Bird from Canker...

Thats my guess...

Check his Throat well...the curdled and somewhat yellow urates in those poops are also strong indicators.


Good luck...!


Phil
Las Vegas


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

The mouth looked clear but further down the throat, we weren't sure if we saw something. Should we just treat with 3 days of Spartrix?

Sabina


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Sabina,


I would treat with Spartrix to be on the safe side.

Over the years we have found many squeakers that were large and fully developed but hadn't caught on to feeding themselves or flying. 

I have also seen tiny, noisy, squeakers with blonde whisps that were aggressive and competitive when fighting for seed and well able to keep up with the flock in flight.


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hi Aias and Sabina,

What a cutie-pie you found. I appreciate your helping the youngster and sharing the pic.

Thank you.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Well, it is instant love for me! What a cutie. Just the age I love, still trusting and (usually) so sweet. Remember me telling you ages ago you'd get some in that weren't so sick?  I would go ahead with the Spartrix - just to be safe.


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

So I just got home from work where the internet was down all day   so I didn't get to see the replies till now. Thanks everyone  Aias plans to take the cutie to the vet on Wed (along with Moxie's bird), and he wants to wait to get an official diagnosis before treating. We are in disagreement--I think there's no point in waiting and possibly letting the canker spread, plus Spartrix won't do any harm. Do you think it's ok to wait?

This bird does seem very sweet. Doesn't mind being held or handled at all. And she is sooooo soft, like an angora pijie! We've never an encountered a pigeon with such soft feathers! I was thinking maybe she's a fancy/feral mix? She has the blue bars, but then the white and black coloring, light light pink legs, a 2-colored beak, which seems long, though it's hard to say since she's young. Are there any fancies that look anything like her ya think?

Maggie, someone had said that to us before about Oscar, loving that age when they're still so cuddly, and I was like, huh? NOW I get it! Now that Oscar doesn't want to have anything to do with me anymore! I thought he'd always be that snuggly  

Well perhaps we'll take another good look at the throat, and that'll help with the canker decision. Will post again if any change from yesterday.

Sabina

P.S. I've randomly decided she's a she (seems so pretty and dainty!)...we are still working on a name.


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Ok well I thought i saw something round and yellow down her throat, so we gave her 1 Spartrix. Her poop was more olive color today. And she flew a little bit one time. After we gave the Spartrix, she was so sweet, just sitting on my hand and arm, pecking my arm hairs! So cute!

Sabina


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I guess the asymmetrical black toenails go with the mottled paintjob, eh?

I always worry when a wild bird (even a squeaker) is too friendly. It's often a bad sign as to their ability to survive "out there".

Pidgey


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Yes well, as I've posted in a few other threads (can't stop grumbling about it  ), our squeaker Oscar was all sweetness and cuddles while he was young and infirm. Now that's he's grown and healthy, he flies away from us. So I'm guessing this one will do the same.

Yup, fancy mottled beak, fancy black spots, and 1 goth toenail on each foot!


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Aias and Sabina,

You know, the Mini Monkies raised Persephone and Prospero from babies
inside there home w/them and they were ohhhh so cudley and cute w/them.
Once they started to get a hang of that ole 'wing thing', they weren't as interested in the cuddles. 
After all,they're big grown ups now  --!!

I think it was a good idea to start on the Spartrix, btw.

fp


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Ok so Aias took her to the vet today and Rita didn't think there was any canker (though maybe the 2 tabs of Spartrix had cleared it up already?). What she does have is a yeast infection. And she is severely malnourished, Rita said to give her puppy chow three times a day. She does have some good intestinal flora, the probiotics seem to have helped with that. She weighed 240g which means our scale is WAY off unfortunately (and this is the second one we've bought!). Rita also said this is a fully grown/fledged pigeon who should be able to eat seeds on her own. She did start flying around yesterday but hasn't been eating. That is the story! 

Sabina


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

Sabina, she is the sweetest little pijjie! i've never heard a pigeon squeak like that before, and so soft, i hope she starts to eat soon. poor girl, do you think the yeast infection caused her to not learn to eat?


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Wow, she's the first squeaker you met? I didn't realize! They usually squeak till they're about 8 weeks old. Yup, they are super sweet when they're young, and the squeaking is so cute. She does seem more gentle than any other bird we've had, but that could be because of the infection/malnourishment. 
So Rita said the feathers are so soft cause she initially had really good nutrition. And she does think this bird is a feral/fancy mix. 
I have no idea why she's not eating. Rita gave her Nystatin 0.8ml twice a day for 10-14 days, so hopefully, we'll see the effects of that soon. In any case, I imagine she'll start eating on her own in the next couple days.


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

how's the pretty baby doing today?


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

She's not so gentle anymore!! She pecks and wingslaps! I guess she was just sick before. She has become very attached to her "nest," this round plastic basin filled with shredded paper. She spends most of the day sitting in there like a cute hen. She pecks and wingslaps if we try to come close. She still lets us handle her though, and seems content perched on an arm. She's getting her Nystatin and garlic, and puppy chow 3 times a day. That's about it for her update.

Oh her new name (April was interim till we thought of one) is Coco, after the character in Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends (there's a whole lot of cartoon watching in this household!) since cartoon Coco has a nest too!

Sabina

P.S. 1 thing i forgot...Aias put her on the window ledge so she could see the pigeons who were eating there, and maybe take a hint...but she just preened instead, ignored the seeds on her side of the window AND the other pigeons...ummm, we're trying not to draw any conclusions about her intelligence, but there is some question...


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

you mean not after Coco Chanel? and here i thought it was because she's into all the fashions! the toenails, beak, etc..
well, i know which character your talking about now, lots of cartoons here too. just a few days ago she was so gentle, i wonder if all squeakers eventually become so independent?


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Moxie, some do, some don't. We have a young pigeon, about 5 months old, who still thinks he is a human and wants to be around us ALL the time. He is very affectionate and a real joy to be around.


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

sabina said:


> P.S. 1 thing i forgot...Aias put her on the window ledge so she could see the pigeons who were eating there, and maybe take a hint...but she just preened instead, ignored the seeds on her side of the window AND the other pigeons...ummm, we're trying not to draw any conclusions about her intelligence, but there is some question...


One may well ask, Sabina 

Cynthia and i wondered about our "Flakey" (christened "Snowflake"). Once Cynthia decided it was time for him to be parted from his cage inside, with makeshift nest and mate (a Ty Beanie toy white dove), to try out the aviary and be with other pigeons .... he just clung to the wire and begged to be taken back 'home'. He's fine now, but we really did wonder if he was a bit dim 

John


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## Aias (Nov 9, 2006)

so update on coco:










i sent her to learn-how-to-eat-seeds school again today (which is forcing her on the window ledge where some ferals are feeding) and she did better. at first she only pecked at random things, but then she picked up a few seeds, but didnt eat them. she will get it though. 

here she is rapping: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExZfId3DK6g&mode=related&search=


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

ok silly, not everybody watches cartoons! THAT'S coco from "foster's home for imaginary friends." she is very funny, for those who don't watch Cartoon Network!


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Aias, you are a funny man. I haven't seen Coco yet but will check him out. I like cartoons too - I'm a "Smurfs" fan from way back.


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Aias LOVES his cartoons...caught up in a Foster's marathon right now! Then there's also all the Adult Swim cartoons...Futurama, Family Guy, Aqua Teen Hunger Force, Venture Bros...then the old-fashioned ones...Yogi Bear, Pink Panther...I could keep going and going...
(how's that for OT?  You can guess how i voted on the poll.)

Coco just came in from a sunning session. Poor thing, Oscar terrorizes her a bit, won't share any of his spaces. We have to go rescue the frantically squeaking Coco anytime she ventures to any of his perches. What a bully!


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

ya, thats when i heard Coco squeaking, when bully Oscar was biting her on his perch. 
have you seen the Assy McGee on adult swim, that is hilarious!


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Haven't seen that one...will check it out.

One little update...she is picking up seeds a lot now, but she mostly just drops them. And her flying is getting better.


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## Aias (Nov 9, 2006)

coco is feeling better and is flying better. her poop is still runny and yeasty. but she feels strong enough to bother oscar and challenge him in all his roosts!


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Aias said:


> coco is feeling better and is flying better. her poop is still runny and yeasty. but she feels strong enough to bother oscar and challenge him in all his roosts!



You GO, Coco! Don't let Oscar rule the roost! Show 'im what HEN POWER can do! YEEEHAW!!


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## Aias (Nov 9, 2006)

she is quite something mr. squeaks, if they have been fighting she will continue to squeak like she is being killed minutes after i have already removed oscar!


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Aias said:


> she is quite something mr. squeaks, if they have been fighting she will continue to squeak like she is being killed minutes after i have already removed oscar!


ROFL !!

She ALREADY has the right MOVES (or should I say, "SOUNDS!") down! 

Mmmmm, sounds like we could use her techniques for some of our HEN *S*uper *P*ower *P*igeons!!!*** When she becomes an adult, she could make a fine INSTRUCTOR!!

**If you can't beat 'em....scream (SQUEAK) bloody murder!!! *


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

So I'm not sure what's going on with Coco the last couple days. Her poop has been very watery the last few days. Ok Aias thinks it's always been watery, but to me it looks worse. The poops are yellowish or dark green. He was feeding her puppy chow and that was working well for awhile. But yesterday she threw up a little bit (a few pieces), and today, she threw up most of the puppy chow in the morning. So he switched to large seeds and pellets to see if that would work better. She just threw up a few of the seeds. 
She's not as active today as yesterday, flying less, and started puffing up this afternoon.
The only med she's getting is Nystatin 0.8 ml twice a day. She's been on it for 6 days. So he'll call AG tomorrow, try to take her in during the afternoon.


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

She's very puffed up, I'm pretty scared. But I guess there's nothing we can do right now...


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## Aias (Nov 9, 2006)

hello? anyone?


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

oh, i'm so sorry, has she been puffed up all night?
i hope you can get to AG today..
let us know what happens ASAP! poor girl, she seemed fine.
maybe post this in the sick or injured, so people see it quicker?


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Aias, I would immediately get her on some heat and try to get some ACV into her even before you get her to the vet.


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## Aias (Nov 9, 2006)

done and done. she has appt. @ 1:30 today.  



Lady Tarheel said:


> Aias, I would immediately get her on some heat and try to get some ACV into her even before you get her to the vet.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Aias, I'll be pulling for her.


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## Aias (Nov 9, 2006)

thanks maggie


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Aias, I see you are "on". What did they say?


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## Aias (Nov 9, 2006)

maggie the person i saw suspects the adenovirus, but really we are just guessing here. i was able to tube feed her earlier and she kept the soupy mix down, which is a BIG relief for me, as she is on the verge of starvation.

i am just now mixing the formula for another feeding. i am keeping her warm and hydrated. she has lost 20 grams.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Adenovirus. It's not uncommon, by the way, for formula to make it through an obstruction where solid food will not--worms can do that. However, you're not going to know for awhile if the formula's going through. You'll need to start seeing substantial poops first.

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

http://www.oropharma.com/en/duiven/html/diarree.html

http://www.albertaclassic.net/adenovirus.php

Pidgey


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Aias, I'm sorry they couldn't come up with something more definite. I have not had a pigeon with adenovirus (that I know of) but believe you treat them with antibiotics. Did the vet put her on anything?

The 20 gram weight loss is not that bad but I would definitely tube feed her for a while with exact just to make it easier on her digestive system. 

Still pulling for Coco.


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## Aias (Nov 9, 2006)

i was given trisulfa to give to her for six days also, but i dont think she is going to make it through the night.

her crop is full, i have given her two feedings of formula, very watery light mixture and there is still no fecal matter.

if she is obstructed, as you suspect, can she be un-obstructed?



Pidgey said:


> Adenovirus. It's not uncommon, by the way, for formula to make it through an obstruction where solid food will not--worms can do that. However, you're not going to know for awhile if the formula's going through. You'll need to start seeing substantial poops first.
> 
> Pidgey


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

OH!! i'm so sorry Aias and Sabina!! is she still doing the same? they did a fecal, i presume, but do the results come back right away on that?
she is just such a special pigeon, her markings and how soft she is, i really really hope she makes it. 
i'm sending love to the little girl... and both of you...


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## Aias (Nov 9, 2006)

thanks for caring everyone but coco died while i was taking a shower just now. there was a puddle of liquid by her mouth.


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## Aias (Nov 9, 2006)

*foul smell*

incidentally there was a foul smell emanating from her cage the last couple of days, it was hard for us to pin down until yesterday when she started vomiting her food. it is the same smell as the pool of liquid by her mouth. any ideas as to why, the intestines? the crop, sour crop?


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Aias, I just couldn't cut off the computer for the night without checking on Coco. I am just so sorry. I have worried about her so much today and yet hoped everything would be ok. You and Sabina did everything you could to help her but I know it still hurts so bad. She was a beautiful little pigeon.

Hugs to you both.


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## Aias (Nov 9, 2006)

yes she was a very beautiful sweet pigeon, and the softest pigeon i have ever touched. pobrecita coco. 

and thanks for your positive thoughts maggie and moxie.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Aias said:


> incidentally there was a foul smell emanating from her cage the last couple of days, it was hard for us to pin down until yesterday when she started vomiting her food. it is the same smell as the pool of liquid by her mouth. any ideas as to why, the intestines? the crop, sour crop?


Lord knows I'm not expert........but this sounds like sour crop to me. I'm sorry she didn't make it. I was hoping and watching also.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

I'm sorry, Aias. I've had a bad feeling about this one all day. Unfortunately, the only actual way to possibly answer your question is to perform a necropsy. You can do it yourself if it's a simple answer like canker in the liver or worms which it probably isn't. If it's not (one of those easy answers), then your vet would have to do it, due to the tissue samples that would have to be taken and examined microscopically. I would tend to suspect that something went septic in the bird's bloodstream. We don't normally discuss possibilities like that because they're so far beyond our abilities to detect or know what to do about, usually.

If that theory is correct, then there wouldn't have to be an obstruction because the body might have lost the ability to process any food anyhow--it would just kick it back out rather like she did. Whatever it was, it was extremely progressive.

Pidgey


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## xxmoxiexx (Oct 2, 2006)

OH MY GOD!! AIAS, SABINA! I AM SO SO SOSOOOOOOOOOOO SORRY!! i'm really so sad, i was looking forward to seeing her soon and seeing her progress. I know you guys love all your pigeons, and Coco is no exception. How very sad. You have to think about how you gave her love and a warm place to stay in her final days. If she had not been found, it would have been a horrible death outside by who knows what.
I am sending you hugs and love Sabina and Aias, if you need to talk or anything, let me know. I wish i was there to give you both a big hug and be a shoulder to cry on. You guys were incredible. You both are such extraordinary people, everything you did was all you could do, and everything isnt enough sometimes, because their fate is already sealed. 
I"M SO SORRY YOU GUYS! this came so fast and hard, i really do wonder what it was though...

LOVE AND PEACE SABINA AND AIAS! Coco, you will forever be with us, and I will always remember you as the first squeaker I met, and such a unique and beautiful one at that. Goodbye Coco....


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## Aias (Nov 9, 2006)

while i was in the shower i was thinking about how to massage the crop or aid in digestion in any way. i was certainly willing to open up the crop to clear it and rinse it but i found this thread:
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=14713
only about 10 minutes ago.

i should have pieced the smell with the possibility of crop stasis, i am so stupid that i didnt understand that sooner. sour crop is a symptom though not a cause right? the mystery is what caused it. i am at a loss as to what i could have done other than to drain and flush the crop via surgery. if it was viral it was beyond my means to detect it, and the worms never showed up in the fecal analysis. could it have been canker way down in the intestines?

i would open up poor little coco but i am sure sabina would kill me. she still hasnt arrived home.


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## Aias (Nov 9, 2006)

i am so happy that coco was the first squeaker you met, she was such a good ambassador.



xxmoxiexx said:


> LOVE AND PEACE SABINA AND AIAS! Coco, you will forever be with us, and I will always remember you as the first squeaker I met, and such a unique and beautiful one at that. Goodbye Coco....


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

i just got home. i got the news from aias a little before i got here. honestly, as soon as i saw her that puffed yesterday, i had a bad feeling. i was so relieved she made it through the night--i don't think we've ever had a pigeon survive after looking like that. but i became hopeful after she made it to the vet. oh how sad. what a sweet pretty pigeon. we really became attached to her the 10 days she was with us. i cried all the way home after getting aias' message.
it did seem like something viral to me the way it came on so suddenly. also given her fecal only showed the yeast. i'll have to read up on sour crop. isn't that due to yeast though? well have to do my reading. 
it is so nice to know that we have all of you out there, caring and worrying as if you were family. well you are our pigeon family  i don't know if that sounds strange, but i am just so glad you all are there for us.
love sabina


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Aias and Sabina,

I just read about Coco. What a tragedy! I am so very sorry! She was such a beautiful bird!

Sometimes even our hopes and prayers are not enough. We know you both did all you could...

I can only offer WARM COMFORTING HUGS...

R.I.P. little Coco from this world but fly high with your spirit brothers and sisters...

Shi


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

I am so sorry Aias and Sabina. It is so sad when they suddenly die on us. You did a great job in caring for her and she knew she was loved.
Bless her little soul.

Reti


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Aias, and Sabina,

I'm so sorry to hear about the loss of little Coco.

Sending thoughts of comfort and a BIG hug.


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## Aias (Nov 9, 2006)

*coco's necropsy (not for the faint of heart)*

so i have a few questions. photo 688, is that the entrance to the crop? that star/sphincter looking thing?
on 690 and others, what are these soft sticky yellow bubbles?
photos 709 and 712 found yellow stuff in throat but was soft so maybe not canker. could it be vomited nystatin?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/100fires/sets/72157600091823088/


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, there's nothing terribly amiss there. The star-looking thing is the entrance of the bottom of the crop going into the thoracic cavity. The crop is just a wide spot in the road up in the neck, but mostly settling down onto the shoulders at the base of the neck. You've got it split open so you can't see it kinda' like a "can't see the forest for the trees" deal.

Think of how food goes down your own throat and disappears into your chest by way of going straight down the middle. Your stomach is actually down near the end of the sternum and it's kinda' the same here. There's no evidence of a big canker so you're probably looking at something primarily bacterial that shut the organs down.

It's difficult to tell from pictures due to the lighting but does the liver look to be a bit on the pale side?

Pidgey


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Incidentally, Aias, I just want to express my respect for you in doing this, it's not an easy thing. For most folks, taking something apart that was once alive and family takes away from the wonder of that particular life. None of us really want to know just how mechanical we are. However, there's no more powerful tool for learning than doing just that and perhaps learn enough to save a life tomorrow that one could not otherwise have saved without that knowledge.

I'd freeze the organs if you still have them and then start working into them at your leisure.

Pidgey


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## sabina (Mar 11, 2006)

Hey everyone, thanks for all the kind words, it is much appreciated.

Necropsy-wise, I was interested to know if there were any canker lesions further down...but was hoping it would all be done by the time I got home. No such luck. So I helped a tiny bit. The liver looked healthy, the paleness must've been the light. We just found some soft liquidy yellow stuff in the throat, but it didn't seem like a growth. Does canker rub off easily? On a "surface" level, the organs looked healthy, we didn't really cut into any of them. Except the crop, which Aias did before I got home. I thought it was a good first effort, definitely as much as I could take. 

Sabina


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Well, I'm going to have to do more study about that stuff. I can't tell if it's fat from between the esophagus and the other stuff in the neck or what. It'd be one for the microscope.

Pidgey


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Very courageous and well done folks .. I KNOW that's not easy to do on a bird that you "know". Heck .. it's not easy to do on a bird you don't know.

Terry


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## Aias (Nov 9, 2006)

thanks pidgey, i spent many hours talking myself through it. i said, if i can pick her up and rinse her in cold soapy water, maybe i can do it. then the plucking, i didnt enjoy that, the crop is so elastic... and so on.

the only reason i did it is so that i could learn a bit more for the next bird, i feel so bad that i couldnt do anything for coco.

so i mentioned the soft yellow bubbles that i found various places in the body, by the heart for instance, any ideas as to what that is? 



Pidgey said:


> Incidentally, Aias, I just want to express my respect for you in doing this, it's not an easy thing. For most folks, taking something apart that was once alive and family takes away from the wonder of that particular life. None of us really want to know just how mechanical we are. However, there's no more powerful tool for learning than doing just that and perhaps learn enough to save a life tomorrow that one could not otherwise have saved without that knowledge.
> ...
> Pidgey


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