# Pigeon shot by bebegun?



## nicole (Mar 27, 2006)

Hello, All.

I found an otherwise healthy pigeon today sitting against a wall in my neighborhood. I could tell he was injured because his wing was drooping, so I went out and scooped him up (not without the bird's protest). 

I brought him in the house and placed him in a cage to let him settle, and noticed a fair amount of bright red blood on my hand and drops of blood on my jeans. So I quickly made up a clotting agent (flour and water mix - -I was in a pinch), and applied it to the wound. 

My husband had a better look at the wing since I was the one holding the pigeon, and he said it looked like he had been shot. There is someone in the neighborhood whom I suspect is shooting the pigeons, but I have yet to witness it, so I don't have any proof.

He is sitting in his cage now, has a heating pad, water made up of salt and sugar, and seed. It seems he's eaten some, and is standing, but his wing still droops. I'd like to clean up the wound and wrap him, but he is completely feral and when he squirms, it only seems to aggrevate the wound and bleeding. 

The wound is located right in the wingpit, if you will. If it is a bebegun wound, the pellet could very well be inside him. Vets in this area are not very keen on helping pigeons, unfortunately. 

His poops look normal. He's just not moving around the cage much, my guess being he's in pain. 

I'd appreciate any and all advice!

Thanks.
Nicole


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Thanks for helping this pigeon out. Was your husband also able to see an
exit wound? If you had a magnet, and if the BB were steel, you could try and
locate where the BB actually is.

fp


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## nicole (Mar 27, 2006)

Hi feralpigeon,

No, there wasn't any exit wound. If it is him, it would be in his torso. My husband thinks most BBs are made of copper, but I could try the magnet trick. My only concern would be moving the BB and injuring him further.

nic


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

BB wounds seem to have a habit of taking skin and feathers deep inside, too. You might see if there's any evidence of that. Here's a webpage with detailed skeletal drawings that might help with figuring it out and describing where the wound actually is:

http://people.eku.edu/ritchisong/skeleton.html

Pidgey


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Well, the bird that I took from the veterinarians office for home care after
being shot by a BB had feathers packed into the wound and needed anesthesia,
wound irrigation and debris removal along w/the removal of the BB. I would
suggest calling Phil's vet and getting a price for the surgical removal of the
BB and seeing what we can do here by way of raising funds. 

fp


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## nicole (Mar 27, 2006)

Pidgey,

If I'm looking at the skeleton picture right, then I'd have to say between the ribs and humerous. It didn't look like there was any feathers in the hole. 

Also, should I be concerned that his feet are a dark pink/red?

nic


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## nicole (Mar 27, 2006)

fp,

I'll give Dr. Hauck (I think that's his name) a call tomorrow, see if he can help. I wonder if he'll be able to see the pigeon on short notice. I have to work tomorrow, so I'm trying to figure out how to manage it. I may have to go to work, call the vet, and take a long lunch, if he can see me. Bringing the pigeon to the office isn't an option. Too many phones ringing and constant air conditioning. 

Why do people have to be so cruel?

nic


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Other options include checking this site for avian vets near you and 
calling to see if any will help this feral pigeon if you sign the bird into 
their care:

http://www.aav.org/activemembers.html

Many times they will treat for free and release if the bird is signed over to
them. You need to call and ask though, some do and some don't.

There are also some entries for your state in this list of rehabbers by state.
Make some calls and see if anyone can help or refer you to someone who can. Hopefully one of your calls will pan out for this bird to get some help.

fp


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Nicole, I don't know what is wrong w/some folks, how they could get a thrill
out of such cruelty and infliction of pain. I was trying to find that vet's name and couldn't. Maybe you could post his name and number in the Resource Section under the Rescue/Rehabber list? That would be great for others as he
is a pij friendly vet. Hopefully if you explain that this is a feral, he will treat for free or at a reduced price. Glad you were able to be there for this pij.

fp


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## nicole (Mar 27, 2006)

It's just ridiculous. Lately I've been seeing pest control trucks advertising "pigeon control" as well. It makes me sick.

feralpigeon and pidgey: thank you both for all your help. I will keep you posted.

Once I track Dr. Hauck down, I will post his info. Hopefully the pigeon will be okay over night.

Thanks again. 
nic


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

_Hauck Patrick DVM

2675 E Flamingo Rd # 1
Las Vegas, NV 89121
(702) 734-9761_

Terry


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Nicole,



If you have any problems or would like me to assume his care...I'd be happy to.


Otherwise, as you all know, all in all, I adopted a casual quarenteen after that PMV outbreak, and am having to wind things down here, in order to move...

But I know you have to work and keep up with various things of your own, so, just so you know, he'd be fine and welcome here if you wanted.



Phil
l v


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## nicole (Mar 27, 2006)

Thank you, Terry. I'll call him this morning. The pigeon seems to be doing fine, although his wing is more droopy than yesterday.

Nicole


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## nicole (Mar 27, 2006)

Thanks, Phil, for the offer!

I took him to see Dr. Mountin at Flamingo. Turns out he wasn't shot, but probably hit by a car. Fractured a bone in just the right location that he won't be able to fly again. The bone is also sticking out a bit from the skin. She suggested putting him down, but I really want to gve him a shot, so she cleaned up the wound, injected him with antibiotics and fluid, and wrapped him up to immobilze his wing. 

For now, he'll be fine here, but should he recover, I would like to find him a permenant home, so that he's not lonely living here with me. 

The doc said he's healthy, so that's encouraging, and he's got a crop full of seed. He's resting in his cage now, after the trip to the vets.

Alright, I have to run off to work. I'll post later with an update. 

nic


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Did the vet say which bone was fractured?

Pidgey


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## nicole (Mar 27, 2006)

Well in human terms, I think it was the shoulder. I could call her later on and ask her specifically. Right up there where the wing connects to a joint on the torso.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

The coracoid?

Pidgey


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## nicole (Mar 27, 2006)

oh my gosh. Maybe. That sounds familiar. The bone fractured right at the joint, which the doc said gave for a poor prognosis, especially because it was sticking out. But S/he is so healthy, I just want to give her a shot. She's going to have the bandage on for at least a month. She'll have to go back in in a month, given the wound doesn't infect and her health declines. 
Does anyone have any tips on her rehab care? She will be taking oral antibiotics and pain meds for about a week. My concern is her water. I have it in a shallow dish, because the vet said she can't get the bandaged area wet. Are there dishes out there (even makeshift ones) that I can get that would allow her to get water and prevent her from walking through it? 
The water is in a corner of her cage, but I've found poop in it, so I know she's probably walked in it. 
Also, is it better for her to be in a small cage (this one is really for guinea pigs) or a larger one? I have a wire canine kennel for 50 lbs. dogs that I could set up as well.

Again, all of your help is more than appreciated. 

Best, 

Nicole


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

She should be confined somewhat, so she can move a little but she cannot attempt to fly. Keep her in a small cage. Once the bandage is off she can be allowed more room.

Get a plastic water/milk bottle with lid, wash it out thoroughly and cut a hole in it big enough for her to put her head in to drink. Make sure to show her where the water is and guide her a few times to it, until you see her going to it for a drink, that will keep her out of the water.

I have two pigeons with same injury in the shoulder, it allows them to only lift their wing so far, so they can either do short jumps but hardly no flight at all. they still can live long and healthy lives with a few adjustments.


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## nicole (Mar 27, 2006)

Thanks for the tip, Treesa!
That's a great idea. 
I think I can fashion something along those lines. She's in a low roof (enough head room) wire cage, so I may have to get one of those small coke bottles. Did you sand the perimeter of the bottle's hole?
nic


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

nicole said:


> Thanks, Phil, for the offer!
> 
> I took him to see Dr. Mountin at Flamingo. Turns out he wasn't shot, but probably hit by a car. Fractured a bone in just the right location that he won't be able to fly again. The bone is also sticking out a bit from the skin. She suggested putting him down, but I really want to gve him a shot, so she cleaned up the wound, injected him with antibiotics and fluid, and wrapped him up to immobilze his wing.
> 
> ...




Dr. Mountain is definitely a very sweet gal, but she ( like most Vets) has "ZERO" experience with anything more than book learning and doing transient proceedures on pets which almost never have anything serious in the way of injury anyway, and I doubt she has even cared for any injured Birds to have had any opportunity to co-relate proceedures of these kinds, with outcomes...nor to learn by it to adjust the proceedures if need be to enhance outcome.


I would not rely on her or hardly anyone else to say if an injured Wing will or will not fly again...other than, when tyhey do it, chances are the WIng will not fly again...so, keep an open mind on that, none the less...and look carefuly at the wrap to see if you can form an opinion on how well it in fact is aligning the broken Bone, or, if it is pulling the ends too far so they are paralell to eachother instead of just meeting in a straight line.


Oye...

Good luck...


Phil
l v


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

nicole said:


> oh my gosh. Maybe. That sounds familiar. The bone fractured right at the joint, which the doc said gave for a poor prognosis, especially because it was sticking out. But S/he is so healthy, I just want to give her a shot. She's going to have the bandage on for at least a month. She'll have to go back in in a month, given the wound doesn't infect and her health declines.
> Does anyone have any tips on her rehab care? She will be taking oral antibiotics and pain meds for about a week. My concern is her water. I have it in a shallow dish, because the vet said she can't get the bandaged area wet. Are there dishes out there (even makeshift ones) that I can get that would allow her to get water and prevent her from walking through it?
> The water is in a corner of her cage, but I've found poop in it, so I know she's probably walked in it.
> Also, is it better for her to be in a small cage (this one is really for guinea pigs) or a larger one? I have a wire canine kennel for 50 lbs. dogs that I could set up as well.
> ...




Hi Nicole, 


Twist-tie by the Handle, any regular sort of old fashioned Coffee Mug, and she will be able to drink fine, and not walk in it or tip it over.


Make sure the Cage you have is set to at least table top height, and not lower.


Cages on floors make for terrible anxietys for Birds...and, sholder heigh is best...bttaqble top height is tolerable.


Phil
l v


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

It's best to keep her in a cage small enough so that she won't have any inclination to even try flapping her wings. When they're on pain relievers, they sometimes forget they're hurt and can do more damage. In the case of a coracoid, if they move it in such a way that a splintered end pierces one of the main arteries near the base of the neck, it can go real bad, real quick. There's a story on here that went just that way.

Anyhow, you can keep water in something as small as a shot glass and with them in a 2,000 square foot cage, they'll still manage to get poop in it.

I've had a few busted shoulders, one since May of 2001.

Pidgey


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## nicole (Mar 27, 2006)

I'll have to look for that story. That is frightening. I'm only going to bug her to feed her and clean her cage, so hopefully I won't aggravate her injury.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

It'd probably be a little fun to find so I did it for you:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=14010

Pidgey


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## nicole (Mar 27, 2006)

Thanks. How sad. Do you think this could happen after the wound has had the opportunity to heal for a month or so?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

No. And I can't be sure that's how it was for Artemisia's bird. I'm just afraid that it was. I've used pain relievers before and all too often have seen that kind of problem. Actually, when any of us feels pain, we exhibit a behavior called "guarding behavior"--it's a known thing. We tend to "guard" the injury against further harm. And when we take pain relievers, we often let our guard down but our minds still know it's there and try to compensate. In birds, though, it's more of an "out of sight, out of mind" kind of thing. 

Some scientists also believe that they don't have enough brain power to actually channel too many things at the same time. For instance, fear (of being picked up when you're trying to rescue them, for instance) as an emotion can override the guarding behavior, they think due to the probability that they just can't process both factors at the same time. That said, I've got a scientific basis for my belief on the subject and the advice that I give with that in mind.

Pidgey


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## nicole (Mar 27, 2006)

Hmm. maybe I should not give her the pain meds, then? Or cut it in half, so that there's some pain to keep her in check? (geez, I sound like a torturess)..


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

You just have to keep an eye on her behavior to make sure that she stays sedate enough not to aggravate it. If a pigeon will take it easy with pain meds, I think it's okay to give them. If, however, they start smacking the bars, windows or whatever, trying to get away, then it's better to stop giving them.

Pidgey


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## nicole (Mar 27, 2006)

Hey, Phil. 

Sorry I didn't respond to you sooner. I was on deadline and didn't see you had responded. 

I requested Dr. Hauck but was told he had the day off. 

Now I'm worried about the setting. I have no way to tell if its set right. Ugh. She told me that we'd be lucky if it scarred over the fractured bone. What do you think I should do?

Nic


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Nicole, they have been to med school and not every vet is a hack, jmo and
my experience. I was excoriated here for bringing a badly damaged bird, one described by many as the worst hawk attack they'd seen to an avian vet
who is certified here and in Europe. I know that not every medical doctor
is one I would want for myself, and the same may hold true for vets and our
birds, they have, none the less, had a considerable amount of education
in their field and get a serious amount of case loads doing only this for a living.

You have some medical folks helping you, why not ask if they think it a good
idea to half the pain meds...and for how much longer would they recommend
the course of pain meds. You can also ask about Phil's concerns and perhaps
they can have a second look. 

You've done a good job by this pigeon bringing it into your home and keeping
it safe from further predation, I know that you will also be a good health advocate for him/her as well.

fp


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## nicole (Mar 27, 2006)

Ok, so driving to work this morning, I found a squab. After chasing him trhough two yards, I caught up with him and brought him home. Since Lexie (pij with injured wing) is using the cage, I set up the squab in a cardboard box with seed and water and a towel to perch on. The only problems I see with the squad is it is underweight and it can't fly. No injuries and lots of energy. He's a squeaker. Do any of you foresee any problems keeping him in the same room with the other for now? Lexie is perched up high in her cage, and the squab (almost full size, btw) is in a box on the floor. The top of the box is closed to the point where he can get air and some light, but his head can't get through. I may have to crop feed him, but being as I'm at work now, that will have to wait for about five hours.


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## Guest (Sep 25, 2007)

Nicole,
There is a very easy way to protect the wing while it is healing. Use a very thin strip of duct tape and tape both wings together by the flight feathers in the rear. This will immobilize the injured wing, promote healing and prevent additional injury. Keep the tape on for about three weeks and then remove it. Depending on how thin a strip of tape you use, there will be some damage to the flight feathers but since the bird is not going to fly again anyway, it's no great loss and eventually, the feathers will moult out. Duct tape is very, very adhesive and other tapes will come loose and slip off the feathers.

What I can't tell from your post is, did the vet try to reposition the bone and suture the wound? If the bone is still projecting through the skin, this is going to fail.


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## nicole (Mar 27, 2006)

Hi Pigeonperson. 

I don't know if she repositioned the bone. She cleaned up the area and put some gauze near the wound for the bleeding and wrapped up the wing so she can't move it. 

Does this mean I should bring her back in and see if I can get the bone pushed in? My intuition is telling be that the bone is still out, because I asked her if the skin would eventually scar over it. She said maybe, since it's not sticking out that much.

Man. But the pij seems to be doing fine, and has figured out her balance and is eating well. 

I really don't have any time to do anything until tomorrow, since my schedule is so demanding today. 

Thoughts?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

Don't have an answer seeing as how there's no certainty on which bone and where or how much it's possibly sticking out. 

Pidgey


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## Guest (Sep 25, 2007)

Nicole,
I don't want to second guess a vet who has seen and treated this bird especially since we don't know for sure if she repositioned the bone. A bone that has penetrated through the skin is called a compound fracture. Bone that is protruding through the skin will die and dry up plus it can cause bacterial infection to get in through the open skin.

As an example of something similar to what you are dealing with, I saw an episode of Animal Planet some time back in which a rehabber brought in a crow with a serious compound fracture. The bone was right there, protruding through the skin. The vet stated that bird wing bones do not heal well because they have a very limited amount of blood circulating through them so he made a decision to amputate the wing. The bird was put under anesthesia and the wing to be removed, was wrapped and held up by a device. The first thing they did was to locate the blood vessels coming in and going out of the wing. These vessels were tied off. The next thing they did was to locate the nerves going in and out and they were either tied off or severed. I don't know why they had to do that with the nerves. Then and only then, did they cut away soft tissue and actually amputate the wing. The wound was then sutured and the bird is back at the rehabber doing well. The vet hospital is Alameda East, a prominent organization that is on the cutting edge of new technology.

Based on the above and a generalized knowledge of wing bones, I'm surprised your vet didn't amputate the wing but again, I have no idea what the injury looks like and what your vet did to try to reduce this fracture. In any event, would it do any harm to ask if the wing should have been amputated instead of what was done? We all have a lot to learn and maybe your vet can fill in some missing gaps in our knowledge.


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## nicole (Mar 27, 2006)

I just called and was told she is out until tomorrow (Wednesday). And Dr. Hauck (the one with tons of experience), is gone until next Monday.

She didn't suggest amputation. She suggested euthanization. I opted for a shot in the dark.

When she was handling Lexie, she looked like she knew what she was doing. She did a thorough exam, looked at both wings, legs, throat, etc. I felt fairly confident walking out of there. Now, I'm second guessing everything.

I really just want to do what's best for the pigeons. In the future, I will know what questions to ask. 

That said, I really do appreciate all of your assistance. You all are a great support base and I certainly couldn't do this alone.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

nicole said:


> Hey, Phil.
> 
> Sorry I didn't respond to you sooner. I was on deadline and didn't see you had responded.
> 
> ...



Hi Nicole,



I would be glad to look at it and see if I think it is too tight or mis-aligned...


Phil
l v


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

nicole said:


> Hi Pigeonperson.
> 
> I don't know if she repositioned the bone. She cleaned up the area and put some gauze near the wound for the bleeding and wrapped up the wing so she can't move it.
> 
> ...




Hi Nicole,


I have had quite a few who-se broken Bones were sticking out of their skin.

The Skin indeed heals just fine in every instance I have ever seen...

If there is a large enough tear, then a few stitches are a sensible recourse.


Breaks next to a Joint are more difficult to set than breaks which are in the middle area of a long Bone...but, in thoery, they can be set also in ways which favor their correct alignment for the mending to be practical.


Phil
l v


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

pigeonperson said:


> Nicole,
> I don't want to second guess a vet who has seen and treated this bird especially since we don't know for sure if she repositioned the bone. A bone that has penetrated through the skin is called a compound fracture. Bone that is protruding through the skin will die and dry up plus it can cause bacterial infection to get in through the open skin.
> 
> As an example of something similar to what you are dealing with, I saw an episode of Animal Planet some time back in which a rehabber brought in a crow with a serious compound fracture. The bone was right there, protruding through the skin. The vet stated that bird wing bones do not heal well because they have a very limited amount of blood circulating through them so he made a decision to amputate the wing. The bird was put under anesthesia and the wing to be removed, was wrapped and held up by a device. The first thing they did was to locate the blood vessels coming in and going out of the wing. These vessels were tied off. The next thing they did was to locate the nerves going in and out and they were either tied off or severed. I don't know why they had to do that with the nerves. Then and only then, did they cut away soft tissue and actually amputate the wing. The wound was then sutured and the bird is back at the rehabber doing well. The vet hospital is Alameda East, a prominent organization that is on the cutting edge of new technology.
> ...



Hi PP, 



This is nuts...

I have had many compound fracures of Wind Bones which ultimately healed well enough for you to not be able to tell anything had ever been wrong, and the Birds were released.

Some have not healed as well, but, the Bird can fly decently for indoor living.

Some, heal badly, and the Bird is thereafter a 'floor Bird' or at best can fly to table tops or other low areas.


It is insane to amputate a Wing merely because there was a compound fracture, or even a messy compound fracture.


If the Wing is set properly, it will heal properly...


Sadly, that is the actual bottom line here with all this...


Phil
l v


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## nicole (Mar 27, 2006)

The name of the bone is the humerus (sp). The vet said she tried to push the bone in all the way, but because it was an open fracture, she's not sure how it's going to do. She's concerned about infection, but we've got her on antibiotics, which may help.


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

In a deal like that, the biggest risk isn't usually losing the bird or the wing, it's whether or not the fracture joins back together. It may result in a "non-union" which may need to be dealt with later. I've got one in the loft right now that had a very badly fractured radius, ulna and humerus. I kept that one taped up for months and it took forever for the radius and ulna to finally heal. They did, and that section of the wing's fine now. However, the humerus resulted in a non-union that I'm eventually going to take to the vet to try and get pinned or something. The bird still flaps that wing, even though it's kinda' loose. In short, he's learned to live with it and I don't even tape it up anymore--he prefers it left alone. It was one of those injuries that they probably would have amputated within the first few weeks due to the lack of healing but we persevered since nothing died and started rotting. Who knows, he might even be able to fly when we finally get that humerus dealt with.

Pidgey


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## nicole (Mar 27, 2006)

That's encouraging, Pidgey. My biggest concern is infection, but it's difficult to tell while she's wrapped up. 
I can't tell if she's been eating lately, but her poop hasn't changed, so I'm figuring she is. I'm going to start measuring out her seed, maybe that will give me some indication. 
Also, I'm giving her high-calc gravel, mostly because that's what I have. Do you think the calcium will help or hinder her situation?


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## Pidgey (May 20, 2005)

My vet once told me that you don't have to worry too much about them getting the kinds of infections that you're worrying about. They do occasionally get them when their immune systems are shot for some other reason but not a somewhat normal bird--they're pretty doggone tough. If the major blood supply to a limb was destroyed then you'd worry about the outlying tissues dying but you'd probably have seen a lot of blood in the feathers if that'd happened. With the antibiotics, it's not really so much of a worry.

Usually with one of them in this condition, you're more worried about the injury either healing altogether and restoring function, or healing enough that they can live in their new home or aviary for unreleasable birds. I can't see a problem with high-calcium grit unless the antibiotic is a Tetracycline. It's come up before that it's not good with Baytril but that argument's gone both ways. You can give the grit halfway in between giving the antibiotics and it'll help if it matters at all.

Pidgey


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

nicole said:


> That's encouraging, Pidgey. My biggest concern is infection, but it's difficult to tell while she's wrapped up.
> I can't tell if she's been eating lately, but her poop hasn't changed, so I'm figuring she is. I'm going to start measuring out her seed, maybe that will give me some indication.
> Also, I'm giving her high-calc gravel, mostly because that's what I have. Do you think the calcium will help or hinder her situation?



Hi Nicole, 


I have never seen even one infection resulting from a broken Bone, whether it was sticking out of the skin or not, and many of 'mine' were done over the years when I had no medicines or antibiotics, and, for that matter, I usually do not use them anyway for these kinds of injnurys.

An approximately healthy Pigeon has a completely adequate immune system to manage without strain, what little infection potential as may arise from this kind of injury.

At most, an application of a friendly topical antibiotic of one kind or another ( Neosporin, Nitrofurizone, or whatever ) , at the wound site, is sufficient, and, a sensible prudence to see to...otherwise, there is little need or benifit from systemic Antibiotics which will not address an actual Bone infection anyway, which would be the real 'worry' if one were looking for things to worry about in that regard.





As Pidgey reiterates, the major concern - in this case, respecting the Humerus - is one of aligning the two broken ends of the Humerus correctly and seeing to it that it is stabalized in the correct position, and not constructed for bloodflow to ajoining muscles tendons and nerves, so that the Bone is in a normal position, is straight, and so the ends meet and are being held lightly presing against one another...and then allowing two weeks or so for it to be kept stable, then, for it to be inspected and evaluated.

In an otherwise healthy Bird, if it is not mended in that time, it was not set correctly for the ends to meet and be touching.



Wings wrapped too tight possibly also incur nerve or muscle or tendon damage or other liability from constructed circulation, in addition to bones not being aligned correctly.


Anyway...


Phil
l v


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Alot of times a bird who has been hawk attacked or injured from vehicles or
whatever, is in this position because their health was compromised to begin
with. 

There does seem to be concern w/compound fractures that infection can set
in, even w "U" syle fixatives w/pins coming off one leg of the "U" pin horizontally the concern is there. At least four different 
doctors in this area that work w/rehabbed birds have all voiced concerns about compound fractures and possibility of infection being introduced. As far as aligning bones is concerned, some breaks are more easily stabilized than others. If the break is in such a place that it is difficult to stabilize and the bones continue to shift/move, amputating a wing is a sugical option. Sometimes when the bird's wing heals after a break, it drags on the ground making it difficult for the bird to get around, this would be another instance where amputating the wing would be a surgical solution.

fp


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## nicole (Mar 27, 2006)

*Update*

A quick update on Lexie..

I unwrapped her wing a couple days ago, and she's very happy to have it off. It appears skin has grown over the humerus bone that poked through her skin. Her wing droops, but she still tries to flap her wing as she's flapping her good one.. 
Otherwise, she's eating and drinking well. 
My next step is to build her a handicap-accessible aviary to keep in the back yard. The squeaker I found two days after Lexie is still with us, too, and seems to have no interest in learning to fly (other than from the floor to the bed or table) or leaving,  so I'm thinking that she'll stay with us, too.
She's not so much a squeaker anymore.. More like a raspy-voiced teenager.  
Any tips on building an aviary to accommodate both Lexie and Domino, who does have the ability to fly?
The space I'm thinking of using is about 9'x9'.


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Nicole,



So long as the wrap had not been so tight as to cause injury to the nerves and muscles/tendons of the Wing, once the Break has healed, it may be a week or two or more before the period of benign stasis is overcome, and the Bird starts doing some decent Helicoptering or other more advanced excercises pending trial flight again.

Some Birds will try flying right away, and usually they can not do so yet.

So, the outcome will not really be at all clear for some weeks or even months yet.


Personally, I do not favor any aviarys which are small.


Having bout 450 sq feet here for House Birds and non-flying Floor-Birds and so on, even when those had been few, it was to me, in my mind, sort of minimum amount of space really for themn to get excercise and have some choices and room for themselves.


While some Birds may abide a small space for a time, over time it will not be good...and the harshness of the Seasons in various ways are an entirely different matter if they are confined in an out door space, compared to being wild or free to seek places of their own chooseings...as is the lack of any real excercise which a small confine imposes.


Possibly, dedicating one room of your house, and having it be a sort of Aviary and Keep-room, would work fairly well, or even very very well.


Your Youngster, unless there is really something amiss with him, should be flying, or should be flying well, soon, or would be if there are any places for him to do so.

Are their high roosts for him to fly to where he is being kept?


In a smallish room, unless there are high shelves or hanging Light Fixtures or something, there will be nothing to fly 'to' other than low things.



Best wishes..!


Phil
l v


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Thank you for the wonderful update. I am so glad your pijies are doing great.
Depending on where the break is/was she might regain some ability to fly. Time will tell. 
I have a bird that had a bone fragment poking through the skin, my vet had to trim the bone so the skin could grow over. Three months later she is flying. 

Reti


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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Great news, as Reti mentioned, there's still hope that your pij may fly....just
will take some time. You might want one or more strategically placed ramps
in the aviary in the meantime. Thanks for taking these two in and caring for
them. 

fp


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hi Nicole - glad to hear the positive update.

Personally, I think a 9x9 aviary would be fine for two pigeons. Just make sure you read up on making it predator proof by using 1/4" hardware cloth, You can do a search and there are many, many threads about building lofts/aviaries.


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## nicole (Mar 27, 2006)

Thanks for all the advice. 

I'm hoping that once I move the two into an aviary, the young one will stop picking on Lexie. Yesterday I set up two pans of water for them to bathe, and Domino continued to chase Lexie away.. And Lexie was the one that came up with the idea for a bath.  

At this point, they are in the same room, but Lexie is in her own cage, so she doesn't injure herself jumping off the bed, or trying to jump from the ground to the bed (she gets stuck on her back).. 

When I let her out to socialize, it's in Domino's space.


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

Just to let you know, Nicole, I have a pigeon who lives with me and my three cats in a l bdrm apt. Squeaks had a very badly broken wing, part of which was amputated. He can never fly and has a permanent home with me.

I am fortunate to have a GREAT Avian Vet who was willing to amputate half the wing. After that surgery, Squeaks healed beautifully and has been full of piss and vinegar ever since...NOT to mention ruling ME and THREE cats with an iron beak!!

Wishing you all the best

Shi & Squeaks


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