# 2011 2nd Annual Pigeon-Talk Classic



## Flapdoodle

I hope the polls were not too frustrating. The idea behind them was mainly to see about how many people were thinking about participating as well as get some feed back. I didn’t intend for the group to necessarily decide what to do. It looks like we could have around 50 members participate, which is great. I know life happens and don’t know if we will get that many, but if we do great.

As far as the polls this is what I am thinking. No auction, no buy back, but I am not going to be able to do it for free. As was mentioned in one of the posts I will be saving a ton of time and money not having breeders and the work associated with them. I also do not have an old bird team. 100% of my time and $ I have to allocate to pigeons will be spent on the young bird team. With the exception of a pair of white birds, I have 0 pigeons. The reason I am going this route and just fly others birds to save time for the other important things in my life. 

I have two options, #1 Go the club route or #2 the forum route. The guys in my club are interested in having me fly their birds. It would be cool to do this same thing at the club level we did here last year. Each guy sends a team of four. Pool the birds each week. I would not have to post anything anywhere. The guys can just look at the results each week. There is no way I would collect a fee for doing this nor do I think they would pay. Out of the two options going the club route would be a lot easier. No videos, posting updates, messing around at the post office picking up and shipping birds, or the stress of having to report lost or sick birds in the forum. 

I think it is fun on the forum. Like I said before I want to do it. I enjoy the videos, stuff like the pretty pigeon show, but it is a lot of extra work. 

Here is what I am able to do next year:



Two bird limit per breeder, $20 dollar per two bird team, nonrefundable, no replacements.
Have birds shipped to me around 30 days old.
Birds accepted anytime the weeks of March 21, 28, April 4, or 11. 
You pay to ship the birds to/from my loft, If money to ship the birds back is not received within two weeks after the last race the bird becomes my property.
The winner of the Pigeon Talk Classic will be the bird who scores the most points in the combine for the season.
The entry cap is going to be 50 two bird teams.

The $20 will be sent with the birds or sent prior to that to secure your spot. I am going to build a new loft. I will not accept any money until the loft is complete. 

We have a couple junior members that want to participate in 2011. A few generous donations that have not been made yet will allow those junior members to participate for free. If you are interested in donating or are a junior member wishing to participate send me a PM. 

I will throw this out there one last time. If anyone else is interested in hosting this year shoot me a PM and I will retract this post and fly club birds. 

You should start to see some loft construction photos around the holidays. Any questions post away… This will be a lot of fun.


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## TAWhatley

Good on you, Tom! Let's see what happens from here. Thank you so very, very much for all your efforts on the 2010 Pigeon-Talk Classic and the upcoming 2011!

Terry


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## bloodlines_365

That is very promising Tom, looking forward to that,thank you for hosting this 2011 classic,hope the pros and cons would chill down a bit ....


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## g0ldenb0y55

I'm in! Where do I send the $20 to secure my spot!

This thread should be a sticky so it doesn't get lost in the shuffle....

Edit: I'm donating a PT Classic 2011 Champions Portrait to the winning bird.


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## MaryOfExeter

I'm in as well, I can't wait! I guess I am considered a junior member, but I'm fine either way.


I'll donate a handmade 'trophy' to the winner


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## sandiego

count me in!!!


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## conditionfreak

MaryOfExeter said:


> I'm in as well, I can't wait! I guess I am considered a junior member, but I'm fine either way.
> 
> 
> I'll donate a handmade 'trophy' to the winner


If you want to have som fun, make that a hand made trophy to the "prettiest bird" winner. Since the racing winner will already be getting another trophy.

Just a thought. 

P.S. I would be honored to donate for the junior member MaryofExeter. Or another if she is not okay with that. We need more flyers from the younger generation. Our combine lost three this past season. They just quit due to other interests and/or financial situations.


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## West

I'd be interested in sending a team to this race. I'm currently deployed but should be back in time to pair the breeders up and get YB's sent. Let me know what's required to reserve a spot. Access to the internet is limited but should be able to check occasionally.


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## g0ldenb0y55

How would we go about reserving spots for this race just in case we have more than 50 participants?


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## MaryOfExeter

Alright then  I can do the prettiest bird, if there will be a prettiest bird competition this year.

And I'm fine with you donating for me  and I appreciate it a lot. It's really sad that you lost junior members this year. I'm the only one in my combine, other than a boy a couple years younger who races with his grandpa.


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## Pigeon0446

Flapdoodle said:


> [*]The winner of the Pigeon Talk Classic will be the bird who scores the most points in the combine for the season.


I have a question if you take in 100 birds like planned and say you wind up having a good training period and you have most of the birds left for the races. How will you pick which birds are gonna go each week? Even if you lose half of the 100 birds you'll still have 50 birds and you only have 2 races each week with 20 bird limits so thats only 40 birds who can go to a race each week.


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## MaryOfExeter

That's a good question. I didn't think about that.


I was also wondering if we were going to raffle extra spaces like we did last year?


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## birdkeeper

I would like to take part of this exciting event.


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## Crazy Pete

I don't think I like the idea of a raffle some body would get to send an extra 2 birds, that changes the odds a bit too much. Well unless I win the raffle then it would be ok.
Dave


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## Flapdoodle

Pigeon0446 said:


> I have a question if you take in 100 birds like planned and say you wind up having a good training period and you have most of the birds left for the races. How will you pick which birds are gonna go each week? Even if you lose half of the 100 birds you'll still have 50 birds and you only have 2 races each week with 20 bird limits so thats only 40 birds who can go to a race each week.


“The Cream Will Rise To The Top”
On my end that is a good problem to have. For those of you sending birds I guess it may not be very good. 

My take on it: In a one-loft race, the goal is ship as many to the race as you can (collect those race fees). Racing as we are doing in a club and combine you want select and race the best birds. The larger the pool you are selecting from the better. It is kind of like holding tryouts for the school football team. A perspective coach wants as many players as possible to show up at tryouts. 

For the first race, I will take the results from two or three training tosses over 60 miles. I will take the best 40 birds clocked and enter every other one in the A or B race. The rest of the birds will go to the race and be released as trainers. For the second race, any bird entered and did not clock in good time in the first race will lose their spot. Any spots remaining in the forty I can send to the second race will be filled by the trapping order from the trainers and maybe a training toss that week. 

I want to win champion loft, to do that we need to score as many points as we can. It is within my best interest to send the best birds. As the coach, I could deviate from the above if a player says send me this is my race. I reserve the right to make changes to the line up if I feel that is best. In addition, if I get a bird that has done well but in a bad molt position either molting flights or a bad head molt I will bench them for a race if I feel that is best. 




MaryOfExeter said:


> Alright then  I can do the prettiest bird, if there will be a prettiest bird competition this year.


We have to have the prettiest bird contest that is a tradition!



g0ldenb0y55 said:


> How would we go about reserving spots for this race just in case we have more than 50 participants?





g0ldenb0y55 said:


> I'm in! Where do I send the $20 to secure my spot!


My plan is a loft with five 8x8 sections, each section with a 4' aviary/landing board. I could fit 30 birds easy in each section, that is 160 birds. I don't see that happening. 100 birds is a huge amount to manage so that is where I put the cap. Last year we had less then half those that expressed interest send birds. I hope this year to allow anyone that wants to participate send birds. If we have many more then 50 actually wanting to send birds we may have to rethink this. Maybe a lottery or something. I will not take any money until after the loft is mostly done and we have a plan in place if we get more the fifty wanting in.


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## Flapdoodle

Crazy Pete said:


> I don't think I like the idea of a raffle some body would get to send an extra 2 birds, that changes the odds a bit too much. Well unless I win the raffle then it would be ok.
> Dave





MaryOfExeter said:


> I was also wondering if we were going to raffle extra spaces like we did last year?


No raffle, each member can send two birds. 

*We may do a lottery if we have too many folks. * I made an executive decision in the event of a lottery. Anyone that sent birds this year, if they choose to participate, is automatically eligible for next year. All the other spots will be by lottery. 

After I get a loft done I will get an online entry form set up like last year. We can get a better idea of the actual numbers involved. 

All of this will decided before any birds or money are sent. This is still a work in progress... patience please . After all it is only November


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## conditionfreak

November! 

Oh my goodness.

I have to figure out my pairings. Buy some disposable breeding bowls. Get some more meds. Collect some pine needles and straw. Build one more breeding box. etc, etc.

All the while, shopping for Christmas. Not to mention that it is getting colder and darker every day, and that I am moving slower and slower every year.

I better get on the stick. Not enough time left if you ask me. 

I like that no one will have more than two birds in the competition. I also like that those who participated in the first event, can not lose a spot in this event, to someone just getting on board. 

I have some concerns about the number of birds to the races being limited by club entry limits. But I don't have any ideas about how else to manage that problem. Since it is based on combine points earned and not ypm by the PT competitor birds (because that way, even those just going on the training truck could actually earn points). But your initial ideas are well thought out. I have had birds do poorly in training and well in a race, and vice-versa (we all have, I'm sure).

But, like you said. A work in progress. There is no doubt in my mind, that things will change by next seasons racing dates. Always does. Unless there is big money involved. Then one has to go strickly by the initial rules.

Let's keep this for fun and bragging rights. Because I see year three becoming about winning money. That is one thing that, in my opinion, has hurt this sport. Hurt it more than having to scrape pigoen poo.

So, ON WITH THE RACES....oops. I mean, ON WITH THE BREEDING.


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## g0ldenb0y55

I'll take Warrens spot since he's not participating this year!

All jokes aside, participants from last year should have first dibs. If they were all to participate this year how many spots would be available for the lottery? I cant' remember what the final number of breeders was for this years race. 

As for birds being left out of the races that is completely up to you to decide in my opinion. I myself, would want to send the best of the best each time and your current process of elimination works for me if your going for champion loft. I know that we have had birds do horrible on the training toss and do well in the actual races but how else would a bird be judged for a spot in the race in the situation where we have a full house? That's a tough one to call but I like your idea on this.....I hope that we can help you win champion loft with our birds!


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## hillfamilyloft

conditionfreak said:


> November!
> 
> Oh my goodness.
> 
> I have to figure out my pairings. Buy some disposable breeding bowls. Get some more meds. Collect some pine needles and straw. Build one more breeding box. etc, etc.
> 
> All the while, shopping for Christmas. Not to mention that it is getting colder and darker every day, and that I am moving slower and slower every year.
> 
> I better get on the stick. Not enough time left if you ask me.
> 
> I like that no one will have more than two birds in the competition. I also like that those who participated in the first event, can not lose a spot in this event, to someone just getting on board.
> 
> I have some concerns about the number of birds to the races being limited by club entry limits. But I don't have any ideas about how else to manage that problem. Since it is based on combine points earned and not ypm by the PT competitor birds (because that way, even those just going on the training truck could actually earn points). But your initial ideas are well thought out. I have had birds do poorly in training and well in a race, and vice-versa (we all have, I'm sure).
> 
> But, like you said. A work in progress. There is no doubt in my mind, that things will change by next seasons racing dates. Always does. Unless there is big money involved. Then one has to go strickly by the initial rules.
> 
> Let's keep this for fun and bragging rights. Because I see year three becoming about winning money. That is one thing that, in my opinion, has hurt this sport. Hurt it more than having to scrape pigoen poo.
> 
> So, ON WITH THE RACES....oops. I mean, ON WITH THE BREEDING.


Thats why I breed first of Feb. Count me in, someone has to beat Warren's Wife. My best will be in the box.


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## Crazy Pete

Thats why I breed first of Feb. Count me in, someone has to beat Warren's Wife. My best will be in the box.
__________________
Its just to bad for you they will be flying under Beckys name.lol
Dave


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## g0ldenb0y55

First of Feb is my thinking too...hope I get a spot. I didn't participate for the last race so I'm banking on a lottery spot.


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## Crazy Pete

Last year there were only 33 PT birds and some people sent 3 if that is an indication we should be ok.
Dave


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## Timber

Count Me In For 2011 !!


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## g0ldenb0y55

That sounds promising, thanks Dave.


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## conditionfreak

Crazy Pete said:


> Last year there were only 33 PT birds and some people sent 3 if that is an indication we should be ok.
> Dave


You are crazy. You sign your name Dave, but you are Pete.

Crazy man.... Crazy.


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## SouthTown Racers

The reason I backed out last year was because I found out that my wife was pregnant. Its kinda funny that today my daughter was born and Im on here reserving a spot.


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## Pigeon0446

conditionfreak said:


> I have some concerns about the number of birds to the races being limited by club entry limits. But I don't have any ideas about how else to manage that problem. Since it is based on combine points earned and not ypm by the PT competitor birds (because that way, even those just going on the training truck could actually earn points). But your initial ideas are well thought out. I have had birds do poorly in training and well in a race, and vice-versa (we all have, I'm sure).


Thats how my best birds have been over the past few years they never showed anything in training and even maybe the first few races. But then have come on to be up near close to top of the points list in the club. Like my bird this year who wound up winning champion bird in my club the first 4 weeks of the season he didn't even do anything. But then we got to the longer races 200 miles or more and he was in the top 10 in the club for 4 races in a row 2 200's a 250 and a 300. Now that bird if he was there he might have never got his chance because of his poor results to start the season. I had another bird who would be the first bird home on almost every training toss and I only clocked her as my first bird in a race once.


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## g0ldenb0y55

Pigeon0446 said:


> Thats how my best birds have been over the past few years they never showed anything in training and even maybe the first few races. But then have come on to be up near close to top of the points list in the club. Like my bird this year who wound up winning champion bird in my club the first 4 weeks of the season he didn't even do anything. But then we got to the longer races 200 miles or more and he was in the top 10 in the club for 4 races in a row 2 200's a 250 and a 300. Now that bird if he was there he might have never got his chance because of his poor results to start the season. I had another bird who would be the first bird home on almost every training toss and I only clocked her as my first bird in a race once.


I feel you man, that's a tough call if you planned on sending birds in the same family of your champion bird. What other way would be fair though?


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## SouthTown Racers

Pigeon0446 said:


> Thats how my best birds have been over the past few years they never showed anything in training and even maybe the first few races. But then have come on to be up near close to top of the points list in the club. Like my bird this year who wound up winning champion bird in my club the first 4 weeks of the season he didn't even do anything. But then we got to the longer races 200 miles or more and he was in the top 10 in the club for 4 races in a row 2 200's a 250 and a 300. Now that bird if he was there he might have never got his chance because of his poor results to start the season. I had another bird who would be the first bird home on almost every training toss and I only clocked her as my first bird in a race once.


Didnt you say that you had a very late start training your birds? I have only raced 2 yb seasons. One question I have is why are my birds horrible the first couple of races? Other guys in my club train less, but have better results on race day. There has to be something im missing. As the season goes on, they keep climbing the ladder, but the first two races drop my ave. speed big time. I think I placed 4th ave speed in our combine this yr but could have been alot better with a couple faster 125's


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## Flapdoodle

Crazy Pete said:


> Last year there were only 33 PT birds and some people sent 3 if that is an indication we should be ok.
> Dave


33 birds, 13 breeders. If everyone signed back up that leaves 37 spots. I don't know that will will get everyone back. We will have to see. 



SouthTown Racers said:


> The reason I backed out last year was because I found out that my wife was pregnant. Its kinda funny that today my daughter was born and Im on here reserving a spot.


Congrats on the baby!


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## Flapdoodle

*Entry/Lottery Form*

I originally was going to wait until the loft is done but what the heck. If you hope to participate please complete this form. It will be up until Dec 18. 

Entry Form


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## Pigeon0446

SouthTown Racers said:


> Didnt you say that you had a very late start training your birds? I have only raced 2 yb seasons. One question I have is why are my birds horrible the first couple of races? Other guys in my club train less, but have better results on race day. There has to be something im missing. As the season goes on, they keep climbing the ladder, but the first two races drop my ave. speed big time. I think I placed 4th ave speed in our combine this yr but could have been alot better with a couple faster 125's


Yeah I did have a late start with my young birds this year but even with the late start my other birds made the eventual club champ look like a chump the first few weeks. With the slow start the first 2 weeks I picked it up with a 3rd and a 5th in the 2 150 mile races with one of my hens. She wound up 9th in champion points. The funny thing about the champ I didn't even really know who he was until he took 5th place in the 200 mile race the 5th week of the season since I never clocked him b4 that. I actually thought he was a hen because he was so small and I never really paid enough attention to him to realize he was a cock. As for you not doing as good in the first races IDK I usually do good in the first 2 races but this year I didn't which I thought was gonna get me but my birds came around and get to where they needed to be after that they were up there each week I didn't win any of the the club races but I was right there. The only race I won this yb season was the auction race from another club wher i was 1st and 5th. But if I had to pick a race to win it was a good one since the 5,500 I won made me atleast walk away with a lil profit for the season.


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## Crazy Pete

The Pete comes from my last name the crazy part, well cheer leaders, the law back in school, long story.


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## Big T

SouthTown Racers said:


> The reason I backed out last year was because I found out that my wife was pregnant. Its kinda funny that today my daughter was born and Im on here reserving a spot.


Daughter, congrads. Your out of the race, (you got diapers to change). I'm in and the right bands are on order.

Big T.


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## eyespyer

Flapdoodle said:


> I originally was going to wait until the loft is done but what the heck. If you hope to participate please complete this form. It will be up until Dec 18.
> 
> Entry Form


DID IT !!!

This is going to be fun...


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## Timber

eyespyer said:


> DID IT !!!
> 
> This is going to be fun...


Same here!


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## bbcdon

I'm in. If there are any junior members who need a sponsor, PM me, and I will be glad to help.


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## ace in the hole

Count me in. 

I'm looking forward to next years ups and downs.


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## sandiego

Just fill up the form, HOooray!!!


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## hillfamilyloft

Some reason I am in there twice. Might want to delete one.


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## Flapdoodle

hillfamilyloft said:


> Some reason I am in there twice. Might want to delete one.


You were just trying to reserve a spot for someone special. I went ahead and started to fill it out...


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## JaxRacingLofts

I have a Van Reet hen I have a good feeling about. Count me in.


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## Flapdoodle

Pigeon0446 said:


> Thats how my best birds have been over the past few years they never showed anything in training and even maybe the first few races. But then have come on to be up near close to top of the points list in the club. Like my bird this year who wound up winning champion bird in my club the first 4 weeks of the season he didn't even do anything. But then we got to the longer races 200 miles or more and he was in the top 10 in the club for 4 races in a row 2 200's a 250 and a 300. Now that bird if he was there he might have never got his chance because of his poor results to start the season. I had another bird who would be the first bird home on almost every training toss and I only clocked her as my first bird in a race once.


Please send birds  I know the system is not perfect but as soon as the bird shows me something he/she moves from the trainers to race team. In order to stay on the race team they need to keep performing. After each race, birds will be going back and forth (trainers/racers) based on how they performed that week. I know it is not ideal or a one loft set up but I think it will still be a lot of fun.


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## TAWhatley

EGGCELLENT!  I'm so glad this all seems to have worked out just fine! Thank you to all the participants this year, all those who have posted here, and especially to Flapdoodle for doing all the "heavy lifting"! Good luck to all of you and your birds in the 2011 Pigeon-Talk Classic!

Terry


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## Caden's Aviary

I filled out the sheet and where it said $20 per team- is that for two birds or what?


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## Caden's Aviary

Nevermind- went back, read the initial post and it answered my question for me.


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## Flapdoodle

I have received a couple of PM's about the shipping window and when to pair birds. I am pretty open as to when I can take birds but want to stick to that window the best we can. I will be going out of town the first week in May, I want all the birds in the loft a couple of weeks so I can make sure they are all good. 

Someone please check my math on this, I know this not an exact science or anything but it should be based on ten days after pairing they lay, the eggs hatch 18-19 days later, the hen can lay again when the 1st round is about 3 weeks old. I don't know if this helps. Again please check my math, it was late when I put this together. Yellow is when birds are 30 days old. Hope it makes sense. Let me know If I need to make corrections.

Pairing Spreadsheet

I also copied and pasted posts in this forum to get a rules page. Let me know if their are any questions.


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## conditionfreak

Xueoo. Don't forget to sign up. I want you (and Warren) in there. I want another shot at greatness.


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## conditionfreak

NOTICE:

If there is someone who wants to participate but no longer breeds racing pigeons. I can send two birds in their name. But to make it fair, they will have to pay the $20 bucks (total for a two bird entry) to Flapdoodle. I would offer to pay it, but then the birds would not really be your entries. They would be mine. 

So, if you want to PM me and set this up, c'mon. I can only do this for one person though, and this is assuming you get registered with Flapdoodle in time. Do not register until I confirm via "private message" that you are the only one I have made an agreement with.

I will send the best birds I have available during the window established by Flapdoodle for shipping. They will most likely be the nest mates of my two entries, unless I have a better option at the time. They will be sent with mine in a four bird box. Thus, the total cost to you would only be the twenty dollars you send directly to Flapdoodle. The birds and shipping are on me.

You can't beat this offer, even with a stick!

If your birds get lost during training or racing, or suck big time. Do not blame me. Blame Flapdoodle. 

Where else ya gonna have a season long amount of fun for twenty dollars? You might even win a trophy for prettiest bird (you can't win the racing trophy as I have my sights set on that. Again. (sigh) )

Flapdoodle, if this offer is not kosher, just let me know.

Oh. One more thing. No fair sending those fancy pigeons some of y'all raise, in an attempt to win the "Prettiest Bird" award. Ya have to send homers dudes and dudettes.


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## Flapdoodle

conditionfreak said:


> ......
> 
> Flapdoodle, if this offer is not kosher, just let me know.
> 
> .........


@Conditionfreak… I was going to send a PM but figure we should open this up to the group. Great idea and a very generous offer. I am sure we can get HillFamilyLoft and others that don’t race in there own club to donate as well if we had a need. 

We might have a number of members here in the forum that would want to participate but can’t send their own birds. 

•	Maybe members out of the US
•	People that raise pigeons just not racers
•	Junior members here in the forum that keep some homing pigeons but not racers. (They could get some really good racing stock out a deal like this)
•	People as you have indicated that can longer keep birds 

Where should those donated birds come from? The only rub that I see is that indirectly some breeders would have four birds in the loft to everyone else’s two. I know they are not “your” birds anymore but if they win, technically you would still get the credit. 

I could get some mileage out of soliciting some local breeders from here in my club for this purpose. They would love to pick a couple of birds and see how they stack up against the competition. When the races start in August, soccer starts, school for the kids starts. Some of the guys here in the club help me with training, shipping, and getting my clock to knockoff. This would be a way to throw them a bone so to speak.

I know of one fancier that has pigeons that are worth thousands of dollars that is turned off by all the losses and some of the attitudes of racing fanciers in general. It is a long shot but I might be able to get them to donate a pair of babies, especially if there was a junior member here in the forum interested in a deal like this.

If the majority agrees, I can add a question to the entry about sponsoring rather then sending a team of birds. Any interested forum members would have register via the entry form. Then they would have to win a lottery spot. At that point, we could track down a pair of birds they could sponsor. 

What does the group think about the idea? Where should the birds come from? Again just an idea we might not have anyone interested in going this route.


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## g0ldenb0y55

I'm willing to ship 2 extra birds in a 4 bird box if someone is in need as well.


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## conditionfreak

Better idea than mine Flapdoodle. Getting birds from your combine/club, and having other PT members sponsor them. That way, as you said. I and others here, won't have more than two of our breedings in the competition.

The shipping costs can be saved also. By the sponsors and by me as well.  To whom the birds belong to after the competition is completed, would need to be addressed prior. If I was sending birds for someone else to root for. Then the birds would belong to them and if they did not want to have them shipped back to them, I would have them shipped to me. I would not leave them hanging.

I hope some from countries other than the U.S. take advantage of this opportunity. Should be fun. Of course, we all know that the best racing pigeons are here in the U.S. of A. Most of them being in Pennsylvania (and Ohio).

Right?


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## MaryOfExeter

....and NC 

LOL.


I think that is a good idea with the combine people's birds.


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## Crazy Pete

On most of the one loft races the 300 mi race pays the big bucks, I thought the bird that was first on the 300 was from Iowa and he was 3 rd place in points. So with Warren not flying this year Airbaby will probly win it all.
As far as who would send a 2 bird team for some one else I don't care if its a PT member or some one from Flap's club or combine. After all this is for fun, so let the games begin.
Dave


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## g0ldenb0y55

Yeah, like Dave said "Let the games begin!"


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## dogging_99

I like that Idea too!! 
I would be interested in sponsoring a couple of birds.
I can also try my own but I'm not up to par with breeding stock Yet! except for #305 and #1409 provided they play along!

Can we decide to sponsor birds around Feb 1st - Feb 15th when we know if we have fertile eggs? Will there be any info on the sponsored birds and how do we choose birds to sponsor?


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## First To Hatch

Flapdoodle said:


> @Conditionfreak… I was going to send a PM but figure we should open this up to the group. Great idea and a very generous offer. I am sure we can get HillFamilyLoft and others that don’t race in there own club to donate as well if we had a need.
> 
> We might have a number of members here in the forum that would want to participate but can’t send their own birds.
> 
> •	Maybe members out of the US
> •	People that raise pigeons just not racers
> •	Junior members here in the forum that keep some homing pigeons but not racers. (They could get some really good racing stock out a deal like this)
> •	People as you have indicated that can longer keep birds
> 
> Where should those donated birds come from? The only rub that I see is that indirectly some breeders would have four birds in the loft to everyone else’s two. I know they are not “your” birds anymore but if they win, technically you would still get the credit.
> 
> I could get some mileage out of soliciting some local breeders from here in my club for this purpose. They would love to pick a couple of birds and see how they stack up against the competition. When the races start in August, soccer starts, school for the kids starts. Some of the guys here in the club help me with training, shipping, and getting my clock to knockoff. This would be a way to throw them a bone so to speak.
> 
> I know of one fancier that has pigeons that are worth thousands of dollars that is turned off by all the losses and some of the attitudes of racing fanciers in general. It is a long shot but I might be able to get them to donate a pair of babies, especially if there was a junior member here in the forum interested in a deal like this.
> 
> If the majority agrees, I can add a question to the entry about sponsoring rather then sending a team of birds. Any interested forum members would have register via the entry form. Then they would have to win a lottery spot. At that point, we could track down a pair of birds they could sponsor.
> 
> What does the group think about the idea? Where should the birds come from? Again just an idea we might not have anyone interested in going this route.



Nice idea I'm a junior member (or will be) I wanted to join this race but I don't think I'll have any birds by then, the guys at the club will be giving me birds but I don't think it'll be in a time frame where I could send them to you, I was going to PM you but dismissed the thought because I figured I wouldn't have any eligible birds by then. Figured before I would send you birds because our terrain is similar so if the birds I train do terrible (honestly I'll be happy if I have some left next year after the races) then those birds did well I could use them as my first foundation breeders if they breed well.


Thanks,
Sho


----------



## Crazy Pete

I could get some mileage out of soliciting some local breeders from here in my club for this purpose. They would love to pick a couple of birds and see how they stack up against the competition. When the races start in August, soccer starts, school for the kids starts. Some of the guys here in the club help me with training, shipping, and getting my clock to knockoff. This would be a way to throw them a bone so to speak


After rereading flaps post I like the sound of this. It kind of cut down on the braging rights if one of them wins but if one of us wins it means more compatition there for even more braging rights. I like it.
Dave


----------



## conditionfreak

Flapdoodle. I have one person that has contacted me already, about using two of my birds for this event. I would be happy to obliged him.

Please let me know if that is the route we are going to take with this. Or, if you would like me to have them go through you for birds from your combine.

I'm good with it, either way.

Thanks.


----------



## Flapdoodle

conditionfreak said:


> Flapdoodle. I have one person that has contacted me already, about using two of my birds for this event. I would be happy to obliged him.
> 
> Please let me know if that is the route we are going to take with this. Or, if you would like me to have them go through you for birds from your combine.
> 
> I'm good with it, either way.
> 
> Thanks.


At this point lets limit sponsored birds to three guys from my club that help me out with some of the "heavy lifting" so to speak. If there ends up being a need they can each put two birds up for sponsorship. All three would give the birds to me after the races so they would go to whoever sponsored them. If we get more then that that would like to participate and get a spot in the race we can figure something else out. 



First To Hatch said:


> Nice idea I'm a junior member (or will be) I wanted to join this race but I don't think I'll have any birds by then, the guys at the club will be giving me birds but I don't think it'll be in a time frame where I could send them to you, I was going to PM you but dismissed the thought because I figured I wouldn't have any eligible birds by then. Figured before I would send you birds because our terrain is similar so if the birds I train do terrible (honestly I'll be happy if I have some left next year after the races) then those birds did well I could use them as my first foundation breeders if they breed well.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> Sho





dogging_99 said:


> I like that Idea too!!
> I would be interested in sponsoring a couple of birds.
> I can also try my own but I'm not up to par with breeding stock Yet! except for #305 and #1409 provided they play along!
> 
> Can we decide to sponsor birds around Feb 1st - Feb 15th when we know if we have fertile eggs? Will there be any info on the sponsored birds and how do we choose birds to sponsor?


I am just thinking about this as I am typing. For you guys that might not have birds ready or for those that want to sponsor birds, sign up for the race. If you get a spot pay your $20. If we get four or five guys that want to sponsor birds and they get a spot I will round up the correct number of birds. Two from each breeder from my club, I will get video of the birds and those that are sponsoring them can pick their birds one at a time based on the order they were drawn from the lottery. 

Please be aware that this is a tough course. Go back and read the thread on the last race. We had BOP issues, sickness, very slow tough races. If you really are looking to get some stock birds this might not be the best route.

Any junior member (18 and under) wanting/needing help with birds or shipping can participate, sign up and see if you get a spot. 

If you are out of the US and want to play sign up and see if you get a spot. 

The entry form will be up until Dec 18th. Lottery winners will be posted by Christmas. The rest we can work out prior to birds being sent.


----------



## jpsnapdy

Flapdoodle said:


> @Conditionfreak… I was going to send a PM but figure we should open this up to the group. Great idea and a very generous offer. I am sure we can get HillFamilyLoft and others that don’t race in there own club to donate as well if we had a need.
> 
> We might have a number of members here in the forum that would want to participate but can’t send their own birds.
> 
> •	Maybe members out of the US
> •	People that raise pigeons just not racers
> •	Junior members here in the forum that keep some homing pigeons but not racers. (They could get some really good racing stock out a deal like this)
> •	People as you have indicated that can longer keep birds
> 
> Where should those donated birds come from? The only rub that I see is that indirectly some breeders would have four birds in the loft to everyone else’s two. I know they are not “your” birds anymore but if they win, technically you would still get the credit.
> 
> I could get some mileage out of soliciting some local breeders from here in my club for this purpose. They would love to pick a couple of birds and see how they stack up against the competition. When the races start in August, soccer starts, school for the kids starts. Some of the guys here in the club help me with training, shipping, and getting my clock to knockoff. This would be a way to throw them a bone so to speak.
> 
> I know of one fancier that has pigeons that are worth thousands of dollars that is turned off by all the losses and some of the attitudes of racing fanciers in general. It is a long shot but I might be able to get them to donate a pair of babies, especially if there was a junior member here in the forum interested in a deal like this.
> 
> If the majority agrees, I can add a question to the entry about sponsoring rather then sending a team of birds. Any interested forum members would have register via the entry form. Then they would have to win a lottery spot. At that point, we could track down a pair of birds they could sponsor.
> 
> What does the group think about the idea? Where should the birds come from? Again just an idea we might not have anyone interested in going this route.


Hi Flap and everybody,
Great idea both of you Conditionfreak and yourself Flap! I logged into the PT site today after a long time and going through this thread, I was just wondering in which way I could take part or just help a beginner. As I mentioned in another thread, I don't live in the US, I reside in India, but would certainly be interested by Flap's offer of entering two of your club members' birds and pay the $20 fee for those 2 (you select the best fancier) and also another $20 to help a newbie. 
So I'll fill up the form if it's OK with you all and if I'm in, I'll send you a cheque (in Euros) for the equivalent amount or in US$ if it's OK with my bank, I don't see why it shouldn't. After the season, the breeder can collect his birds from you as I'm not going to have them shipped all the way here.
Count me in to sponsor the beginner in any case.
God bless,
Jean-Pierre
(jpsnapdy)


----------



## pattersonk2002

*Sponsor*

jpsnapdy, that's very generous of you and in a way you have entered the race if Tom gives you the band numbers of the young flyer you sponsor, you have to send your good thoughts to that bird and watch every race result  >Kevin


----------



## jpsnapdy

pattersonk2002 said:


> jpsnapdy, that's very generous of you and in a way you have entered the race if Tom gives you the band numbers of the young flyer you sponsor, you have to send your good thoughts to that bird and watch every race result  >Kevin


Thanks Kevin / Patterson, but I did follow the PT 2010 race from start to finish with much interest, race results and all. This will make it even better. 
I always try to help new fanciers as best I can in the interest of our wonderful sport by giving them birds and tips etc. 'til they need me. Hopefully, one day they will do the same for others... That's what my mentor did for me, he even gave me some YBs from eggs he had got from John Marles, very fast birds!


----------



## bcr1

Hey all. I talked to rackerman and I am going to pay the entry for a couple of birds for him. He got a lot of my birds when I had to get rid of them this summer (thought I did that is) I just wondered what quality of birds they were so I thought it would be fun. I also would be happy to sponsor a junior member if there are any in need of it.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

ProPigeon Loft said:


> Just signed up for the fun
> 
> I would be more than willing to donate for one of the junior members.
> 
> Anyone know if Mr. Warren Smith is getting in this year?


I think Warren is scared, but I bet his wife will put a few in. She is the defending champion.


----------



## kalapati

*Congratulation!*



ProPigeon Loft said:


> Just signed up for the fun
> 
> I would be more than willing to donate for one of the junior members.
> 
> Anyone know if Mr. Warren Smith is getting in this year?



i saw your race results at the CBS mercedes classic. CONGRATS for being on top on one of the races.


kalapati
San Diego


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## g0ldenb0y55

I just checked the list and we've got 36 so far. Let's get this show on the road!


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## MaryOfExeter

Yay! Glad to see so many people in so far. Now lets get some more!


----------



## MaryOfExeter

hillfamilyloft said:


> I think Warren is scared, but I bet his wife will put a few in. She is the defending champion.


I see a Defending Champ slot on the entered sheet. Saved spot, or is s/he really in already?


----------



## bbcdon

If I read the post correctly, we need about 14 more to sign up, as Flapdoodle said 100 birds is about the max that he could take care of. We should hit that hopefully in the next week or two.


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## g0ldenb0y55

I think I've got my 2 pairs picked out for this race. I'll be sending one from each pair. Very excited about this!


----------



## MaryOfExeter

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> I think I've got my 2 pairs picked out for this race. I'll be sending one from each pair. Very excited about this!


I know one pair I'll send a bird from. But I'm still contemplating on the other. I would have had it figured out, if that dog wouldn't have messed up my matings


----------



## hillfamilyloft

ProPigeon Loft said:


> Thanks man! Yea won the first 200 outright and we were looking good until that final 300. Had a bird do okay in the Twister, made my entry money back for next year.
> 
> Live to fly another day!


Congrats, not a easy race to do well in. Lot of big dogs in this one.


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

MaryOfExeter said:


> I know one pair I'll send a bird from. But I'm still contemplating on the other. I would have had it figured out, if that dog wouldn't have messed up my matings


Yeah, that was tragic Becky. I'm sure you'll get it back to the way it was before or even better!


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

ProPigeon Loft said:


> Thanks man! Yea won the first 200 outright and we were looking good until that final 300. Had a bird do okay in the Twister, made my entry money back for next year.
> 
> Live to fly another day!


We've got some tough competition if your entering birds of that caliber! This is really getting exciting.

Didn't Matt (Southtown Racers) get his birds from you? looks like he's been doing really well and his name is on the list for this race also.


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

hillfamilyloft said:


> Congrats, not a easy race to do well in. Lot of big dogs in this one.


your birds look pretty potent as well my friend!


----------



## hillfamilyloft

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> your birds look pretty potent as well my friend!


Last year I had Ace send me a couple off of crossed blood with mine. I was having breeding issues. The crosses did not do too well for us. This year I am looking forward to sending birds off my proven pairs. Tough course to fly in Cali with Flap. I think our goal should be to win him a few races and get him some points in the combine. 
Randy


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## hillfamilyloft

Might just do Warren's wife's strategy and put in some pretty ones. Seemed to work for her. Since she is the defending champion, do you think we ought to let Warren enter a couple also? Might make for a fun spousal competition. See who is better at picking birds for the race. See if he can get the trophy to his side of the case.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> your birds look pretty potent as well my friend!


My birds are much better off than my pocket book. Would love to have the dollars to send to the truck race, world ace challenge, or Flamingo etc. Want to test them on the big stage on equal terms.


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## Crazy Pete

Last year they tried to say it would be an easy course by the end of the season the truth comes out. The only thing easy was posting so I'm not sure what to send I'll be the first person to loose both.
Dave


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## jpsnapdy

conditionfreak said:


> Better idea than mine Flapdoodle. Getting birds from your combine/club, and having other PT members sponsor them. That way, as you said. I and others here, won't have more than two of our breedings in the competition.
> 
> The shipping costs can be saved also. By the sponsors and by me as well.  To whom the birds belong to after the competition is completed, would need to be addressed prior. If I was sending birds for someone else to root for. Then the birds would belong to them and if they did not want to have them shipped back to them, I would have them shipped to me. I would not leave them hanging.
> 
> I hope some from countries other than the U.S. take advantage of this opportunity. Should be fun. Of course, we all know that the best racing pigeons are here in the U.S. of A. Most of them being in Pennsylvania (and Ohio).
> 
> Right?


Right


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Crazy Pete said:


> Last year they tried to say it would be an easy course by the end of the season the truth comes out. The only thing easy was posting so I'm not sure what to send I'll be the first person to loose both.
> Dave


I knew it wouldn't be easy, flying with those mountains


----------



## pattersonk2002

*Pied*



bcr1 said:


> Hey all. I talked to rackerman and I am going to pay the entry for a couple of birds for him. He got a lot of my birds when I had to get rid of them this summer (thought I did that is) I just wondered what quality of birds they were so I thought it would be fun. I also would be happy to sponsor a junior member if there are any in need of it.


 Well I got a cute looking pied homer from Russ, does that mean that if I enter her young you will pay mine to LOL just kidding bcr1, but I might enter one of the young, I am just not sure with a two bird entry. I am going to take a good look at every young bird and try to pick one's that will at least beat the current champ, I am not sure how they will do against the other competition though. I will let you know if blood from your birds are in the race. >Kevin


----------



## pattersonk2002

*Birds*



jpsnapdy said:


> Right


 You can't forget that I had an almost good bird from Michigan, well he was shipped back to me anyway. I do think it trapped in my loft and was lost from ohio, so I sent it out to the Fapdoodle.>Kevin


----------



## rackerman

*I'm in with bcr1 birds to see what they do, wish I could have one of mine going. Anyway, this will be fun. I watched the last race and boy, it was fun just watching!! Pattersonk, let the games begin..... *


----------



## rackerman

bcr1 said:


> Hey all. I talked to rackerman and I am going to pay the entry for a couple of birds for him. He got a lot of my birds when I had to get rid of them this summer (thought I did that is) I just wondered what quality of birds they were so I thought it would be fun. I also would be happy to sponsor a junior member if there are any in need of it.


Great, were in Brian!!


----------



## bcr1

Ok russ, I just signed up too so you will get to have a couple of yours in too. Now you just got to make em have babies in time.


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## g0ldenb0y55

1 one and we hit 40 breeders! Tom you might have a full house this year! Let's go!


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## SmithFamilyLoft

hillfamilyloft said:


> Might just do Warren's wife's strategy and put in some pretty ones. Seemed to work for her. Since she is the defending champion, do you think we ought to let Warren enter a couple also? Might make for a fun spousal competition. See who is better at picking birds for the race. See if he can get the trophy to his side of the case.


Hey, when she is not home, and the pigeon guys come to visit, I always claim it as mine !  I mean you guys got to give me some credit, after all, she is the one who called me at work one time and said "a big brown pigeon" was trying to get into the loft, and so she propped open the loft door for him to go in, and then shut the door behind him when he got in, but then all the other pigeons wanted to get out !!! 

As I was screaming into the phone, and peeing my pants, she laughed and told me it was a joke. That she really did know the difference between a Coopers Hawk and a red pigeon, which she says is really brown. 

I'm thinking just like at my local club, I got to let some others win once in awhile....just so everyone does not just up and quit !


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## RodSD

God, I love that joke that your wife put you through! She is a keeper. If she can make your blood flows faster without exercise it is all good. LOL!


----------



## hillfamilyloft

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> I'm thinking just like at my local club, I got to let some others win once in awhile....just so everyone does not just up and quit !


sounds like a cop out. Most of us are in here because we want to beat you. You in the race is more of a motivator. If we beat your wife, then you have a excuse that the birds were hers.


----------



## jpsnapdy

pattersonk2002 said:


> You can't forget that I had an almost good bird from Michigan, well he was shipped back to me anyway. I do think it trapped in my loft and was lost from ohio, so I sent it out to the Fapdoodle.>Kevin


Good one then!


----------



## jpsnapdy

@ flapdoodle, and everybody in the race, 
On second thought:
If I'm in and if the breeder (one of Tom's combine members) (that's all a bit iffy, I know), so if your combine member is willing, the birds I sponsor can go to the "Help a beginner Program" or to the person who ends up at the bottom of the 2011 PT race results, provided the bird(s) do well (that's another if). This could encourage some fanciers to join even if they're not too sure how their own birds will do; at least they stand to improve a bit by getting one or two better pigeons?
what do you guys think ?


----------



## Big T

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Hey, when she is not home, and the pigeon guys come to visit, I always claim it as mine !  I mean you guys got to give me some credit, after all, she is the one who called me at work one time and said "a big brown pigeon" was trying to get into the loft, and so she propped open the loft door for him to go in, and then shut the door behind him when he got in, but then all the other pigeons wanted to get out !!!
> 
> As I was screaming into the phone, and peeing my pants, she laughed and told me it was a joke. That she really did know the difference between a Coopers Hawk and a red pigeon, which she says is really brown.
> 
> I'm thinking just like at my local club, I got to let some others win once in awhile....just so everyone does not just up and quit !


I like your wife!!!! I'll pay her twenty so she can defend her rights. Also when did you start speaking for your wife? Does she know? I think you may be in the doghouse if she finds out. Tell her to enter her hawk, our birds will fly faster.

You know you got to play, so just admit it.

Tony


----------



## Crazy Pete

One win could just be luck, hillfamilyloft put some fine birds at auction I'll bet not his very best. Airbaby came in 3 rd and beat you on the 300 you like to do things for $ I have $100 that says you can't do it two times in a row. You win I will send you the money or to a charity of your choise. And if you loose some one else get to say they beat you, and you pay nothing.
Dave, Crazy Pete


----------



## MaryOfExeter

jpsnapdy said:


> @ flapdoodle, and everybody in the race,
> On second thought:
> If I'm in and if the breeder (one of Tom's combine members) (that's all a bit iffy, I know), so if your combine member is willing, the birds I sponsor can go to the "Help a beginner Program" or to the person who ends up at the bottom of the 2011 PT race results, provided the bird(s) do well (that's another if). This could encourage some fanciers to join even if they're not too sure how their own birds will do; at least they stand to improve a bit by getting one or two better pigeons?
> what do you guys think ?


I think that's a good idea 
I was wondering what people in other countries were going to do about "their" birds after the races. Obviously most cannot afford importing (not to mention the stress from it). I was thinking either they could be given/donated to certain people like you suggested, or maybe auctioned off or something.


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

Crazy Pete said:


> One win could just be luck, hillfamilyloft put some fine birds at auction I'll bet not his very best. Airbaby came in 3 rd and beat you on the 300 you like to do things for $ I have $100 that says you can't do it two times in a row. You win I will send you the money or to a charity of your choise. And if you loose some one else get to say they beat you, and you pay nothing.
> Dave, Crazy Pete


I like this!.....you are definitely a gamer Dave!


----------



## conditionfreak

Hey Warren.

I know that it is sometimes hard to get a woman on camera (because it takes them about two hours to get "prettied up"), but when are you going to post a video of the two winners?

Also, have you thought about auctioning off your winner here on PT, or maybe even putting it up for sale on your web site. "The Pigeon Talk Classic Winner", should be worth something. Especially with the last name "Smith".

You could donate the proceeds to a charity, or to the next winner of the "P_T Classic".

Since you're retired and all, from this event.


----------



## pattersonk2002

*Hawk*



Big T said:


> I like your wife!!!! I'll pay her twenty so she can defend her rights. Also when did you start speaking for your wife? Does she know? I think you may be in the doghouse if she finds out. Tell her to enter her hawk, our birds will fly faster.
> 
> You know you got to play, so just admit it.
> 
> Tony


 I was thinking her Hawk was in the race, that is why there was so many MIA. I am just happy to see mine was able to out fly her second best>Kevin


----------



## pattersonk2002

*You wana bet*



rackerman said:


> *I'm in with bcr1 birds to see what they do, wish I could have one of mine going. Anyway, this will be fun. I watched the last race and boy, it was fun just watching!! Pattersonk, let the games begin..... *


 You guys won't even get out of the loft, even if you do I going to beat you with your own birds. Unless you are going to race those whites you picked up from me


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## pattersonk2002

*breeding*



bcr1 said:


> Ok russ, I just signed up too so you will get to have a couple of yours in too. Now you just got to make em have babies in time.


Good luck Russ, I am thinking you should breed these pairs inside though. You know how cold it gets there>Kevin


----------



## rackerman

pattersonk2002 said:


> Good luck Russ, I am thinking you should breed these pairs inside though. You know how cold it gets there>Kevin


*I have some good birds! Remember what you said, "you are going to beat me with my birds", so I guess I win either way.........[/Baid, ]*


----------



## rackerman

pattersonk2002 said:


> You guys won't even get out of the loft, even if you do I going to beat you with your own birds. Unless you are going to race those whites you picked up from me


I have some good birds, like you say! Just remember what you said, "you are going to beat me with my birds", so I guess I win either way...LOL...[/


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## conditionfreak

Gonna be funny when all of us guys get beat by a female, again.


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## jpsnapdy

MaryOfExeter said:


> I think that's a good idea
> I was wondering what people in other countries were going to do about "their" birds after the races. Obviously most cannot afford importing (not to mention the stress from it). I was thinking either they could be given/donated to certain people like you suggested, or maybe auctioned off or something.


I personally am not for the auctions, not in this sort of friendly race, I don't think we're in it for the money? but let the majority decide.


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## Flapdoodle

ProPigeon Loft said:


> So SFL is the Defending Champion on the list?





MaryOfExeter said:


> I see a Defending Champ slot on the entered sheet. Saved spot, or is s/he really in already?


I have not heard from Mr or Mrs Smith other then what has been posted here in the forum. We had one breeder that showed up twice on the list. Rather then delete them I went ahead and just change the entry to "Defending Champ". 

My take on this is the Smith's are just holding out until Dec 17 just to build some suspense. Being this is *"THE RACE"*, the super bowl, the world series, the end all be all in of pigeon racing, I can't image how anyone in their right mind would pass up on defending *"THEIR"* title. Can you imagine for example if the Giants earned the spot in the world series next year say no we are not coming we want to give another team a shot. It would be crazy talk. 

In the event that December 18th rolls around and no word of an entry from our defending champ I think the only thing we can do is put an APB out for the closest 2 YB's we can get to pure Smith blood. Those two birds will represent the Smith Family Line in the race. If I can't find two that are pretty close, I will trap a couple of the top of Walmart in town and enter them on behalf of the defending champ. 

*@ Warren:* *You still owe us a video or at least a picture of the Champ Bird, Trophy and Breeder. 

What ever you do keep the camera away from Duane we both know he can't keep the camera upright.

I am also calling BS on the 9 out of 10 rounds in the black at 100'yds... No way James is that good... 

Just sign up for the biggest little race in the world and send me a couple of birds to fly... *


----------



## Flapdoodle

*I think I may have found a loft*

Club meeting last night, a guy that has not flown in a few years offered me a loft free of charge I just need to disassemble, move and reassemble. It is 40 x 8 feet with five sections. I am going to go take a look later this week.


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## Flapdoodle

*Bands*

Bands for the race need to be 2011 IF or AU bands. Two options for bands if you don't have your own:

#1 The club is holding an average speed band race. It is going to be over 3 races. If someone is interested in purchasing bands for their two entries let me know. We are still working out the details. I think it is going to be $30 a band but not sure yet. 

#2 I can give you some of mine for your entries. I have 100 bands ordered and won't use more then ten. They are AU bands.


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## lmorales4

Hello flap doodle I just filled out my entree form and will be needing some of those 2011 bands because Im not planning on breeding many birds next year please PM me if you can spare 2. Also where do I send the money and the birds???


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## Alamo

I just signed up,and I think I`m *#42*....Which is a good omen for me...I was hatched in 1942 !
hahahahaha!!!....*Good luck everyone *!!.......Alamo


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## Big T

Alamo said:


> I just signed up,and I think I`m *#42*....Which is a good omen for me...I was hatched in 1942 !
> hahahahaha!!!....*Good luck everyone *!!.......Alamo


This means you will place 42 in the races.

LOL Tony


----------



## Alamo

BIG T.....You are probally right...And since I don`t have any WINGS,I would be walking home from the race stations ......hahahahaha!!!!! It`s a good thing my PIGEONS will be flying,and not me......If I was a pigeon,I would be hawk bait for sure....I think there is a guy who flys birds who`s loft name is HAWKBAIT LOFT.....Alamo


----------



## conditionfreak

Ha Ha. A good friend of mine has his lofts named "Hawk Roost Lofts". He has a real tough hawk problem where he is at.

Back when I first got started, I considered calling my lofts "Take Out" lofts or "Drive Thru" lofts.


----------



## pattersonk2002

*loft mames*



conditionfreak said:


> Ha Ha. A good friend of mine has his lofts named "Hawk Roost Lofts". He has a real tough hawk problem where he is at.
> 
> Back when I first got started, I considered calling my lofts "Take Out" lofts or "Drive Thru" lofts.


 Maybe it could be Hot-N-Now lofts, fly threw service window avalible>Kevin


----------



## pigeonnewb

Heck, after this much heated debate and rivalry, I can toss some birds in the race. Nothing to really brag about on my end. I might be able to breed a few more for some members too if they like me to send it in for them. I would just drive up north and get with Flap on a time to drop off the young birds. If any junior wants I'll donate birds and pay for their entry fees. They can keep any earnings and birds after the race, if it performs. Just throwing it out there. Food for thought.


----------



## Flapdoodle

*New loft for the race?*

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f38/my-new-pigeon-loft-48446.html

Anybody have any thoughts on this loft?


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

Wow, that's a huge open face loft. Not sure how I would go about moving that thing but with a fresh coat of paint and some modifications, you have yourself pretty nice loft.


----------



## Crazy Pete

How far do you have to move it? Do you or any body in the club have access to a flat bed trailer? It would have to be some sort of low boy trailer. My loft is 10 by 16 we used a car trailer, the loft wae wider then the trailer. We had to bur those 4 in trucker straps and go all the way over the loft, and then had to pull it over 80 miles to get it home. Don't forget the permit you do not want trouble with DOT.
Dave


----------



## bbcdon

Good luck to you. It looks like a hell of a project to break it down and ship. Unfortunately, if you have access to a crane and lowbed, the costs would be very high, unless you know the people. Dismantling is alot of work, even breaking it all the way down to the studs, flooring, root, etc, it looks like alot of work. Good luck to you on this endeavor.


----------



## bbcdon

I forgot to mention that with the size of the loft you would not need a permit to transport it, and it would fit on a 48' flatbed. The crane would be the real expense, provided the loft could handle the stress without falling apart.


----------



## Big T

If you got a 45 foot flatbed trailer, a truck to pull it, six ten foot 4X4s and enough blocks. You remove the lattes work underneath. Slide the 4X4s under the loft every eight feet. Slowly jack up each side and each 4X4 a block at a time until it is high enough to pull the trailer underneath. Then slowly lower it onto the trailer a block at a time. Strap it down real good and drive like your grandpa to your house. Then park the trailer where you want the loft and start the process all over again in reverse.


----------



## Crazy Pete

bbcdon yes he would need a permit unless they were to cut the over hang of the roof, that makes it over 10 ft.
Dave


----------



## bbcdon

As long as the load is not over 14', he is OK. The standard is 4 1/2' on the height of the trailer. If the loft is 9 1/2' or lower in height, he is OK. You are right. I forgot about the overhang of the roof structure. If you are over 102" wide, you will need a permit. I forgot about the overhang of the roof. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.


----------



## Big T

bbcdon said:


> As long as the load is not over 14', he is OK. The standard is 4 1/2' on the height of the trailer. If the loft is 9 1/2' or lower in height, he is OK.


Don't ya'll think he needs to get it on a trailer before we start worrying about a little old permit.


----------



## bbcdon

You are right Tony. He can sweat the minor stuff once it is on the trailer.


----------



## bbcdon

If I were still a truck owner-operator, I would be glad to volunteer the truck and trailer for the transporting to the new site.


----------



## pattersonk2002

*Moving*

Tom, I don't see your comments on others comments. I do a lot of remodeling and recycling of wood and know all to well it takes time (not hrd) but time to take things apart, pull nails and reassemble. If you lived near by, I have two old mobile home beams with the axles, I would pull them underneath the loft and reattach the axles after jacking. Of course I also have the hitch and portable welder to cross brace for the move. this could be pulled with a dually diesel pickup, maybe less. As I said if you lived here, since you don't you might try checking out a house mover or somebody similar, you don't need a crane and a flat bed even though it would work. I also have Amish communities near me, I bet if I stopped in and talked with them they would pull it with horses. >Kevin


----------



## JaxRacingLofts

pattersonk2002 said:


> I also have Amish communities near me, I bet if I stopped in and talked with them they would pull it with horses. >Kevin


That made me laugh because they would..they don't mess around


----------



## Flapdoodle

Flapdoodle said:


> http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f38/my-new-pigeon-loft-48446.html
> 
> Anybody have any thoughts on this loft?


I think I broke a rule or did something stupid. I have two threads going on the same topic. 

I going to keep my loft posts over on the thread in that section. Thanks for the advice. I will start the project next week and update that thread....


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

We now have 48 signed up for this race!


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Yeah! Come on, surely there are two more people wanting to get on this  I'm glad to see yet another club member joining. I KNOW there are more NC people here. I think they need to get in on the action as well


----------



## Kastle Loft

Looks like I'm 49th. Don't know how I missed this thread. I blinked and this thread had so many pages I thought it was one of the other threads where everyone was debating and I didn't bother looking. Glad to hear this is a go and look forward to sending something. I'm still testing breeding combinations so this will be helpful in addition to being fun.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

All the spots are filled now


----------



## blongboy

dstephenson said:


> Looks like I'm 49th. Don't know how I missed this thread. I blinked and this thread had so many pages I thought it was one of the other threads where everyone was debating and I didn't bother looking. Glad to hear this is a go and look forward to sending something. I'm still testing breeding combinations so this will be helpful in addition to being fun.


lol i missed this too ..i guess i'll wait till next year.


----------



## Pigeon0446

You can still sign up until the middle of December and he'll be doing a lottery to see who get in or not. I was on the fence if I would send birds or not so I figured I wouldn't sign up until last min if he still needed birds to fill the loft. I didn't want take sombody elses spot because I know some ppl are really looking foward to this and really want to fly and I don't want sombody else to miss out on somthing they will enjoy more then I would. I rather fly my birds here for myself I enjoy flying my birds and doing good in races myself more then having sombody else doing good with my bird.


----------



## blongboy

Pigeon0446 said:


> You can still sign up until the middle of December and he'll be doing a lottery to see who get in or not. I was on the fence if I would send birds or not so I figured I wouldn't sign up until last min if he still needed birds to fill the loft. I didn't want take sombody elses spot because I know some ppl are really looking foward to this and really want to fly and I don't want sombody else to miss out on somthing they will enjoy more then I would. I rather fly my birds here for myself I enjoy flying my birds and doing good in races myself more then having sombody else doing good with my bird.


my thought exactly


----------



## Alamo

50 Lofts.....25 different USA states...plus 1 from another country....Don`t we have anyone on this site from Canada ?? Can`t beleive that !!......Alamo


----------



## JaxRacingLofts

Alamo said:


> 50 Lofts.....25 different USA states...plus 1 from another country....Don`t we have anyone on this site from Canada ?? Can`t beleive that !!......Alamo


50 lofts! I'm looking forward to see how my birds do compared to these high dollar birds everyone is going to send. Now we have a party..let the games begin!


----------



## Pigeon lower

Alamo said:


> 50 Lofts.....25 different USA states...plus 1 from another country....Don`t we have anyone on this site from Canada ?? Can`t beleive that !!......Alamo


Im from canada, But it be to much hastle to send birds over and to much money.


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

Looks like we might have a lottery after all. To be honest I only expected about 30-40 to participate but we now have 50 to date. Let's hope everyone sends birds!


----------



## rackerman

*WOW 50 in now!Thats GREAT! Now I just hope the babies come!! I think I have a good chance to contend.....*


----------



## pattersonk2002

*Canada*



Alamo said:


> 50 Lofts.....25 different USA states...plus 1 from another country....Don`t we have anyone on this site from Canada ?? Can`t beleive that !!......Alamo


 I am not from Canada but I have 2 rescues from there, as it turns out I have a cock and a hen. I could pair these for the race but they are not my first choice. If by chance there is an opening I will pair them and send at least on of the young just to fill that gap . >Kevin


----------



## pattersonk2002

*Babies*



rackerman said:


> *WOW 50 in now!Thats GREAT! Now I just hope the babies come!! I think I have a good chance to contend.....*


 Ahum, just in case Russ, I could breed brians birds for a backup plan but then of course you would not exactly beat me LOL >Kevin


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Pigeon lower said:


> Im from canada, But it be to much hastle to send birds over and to much money.


It wouldn't be any money for you, just the entry fee ($20). You'd be sponsoring some birds from here, either from a PT member, of one of Tom's combine members.


----------



## Guest

MaryOfExeter said:


> It wouldn't be any money for you, just the entry fee ($20). You'd be sponsoring some birds from here, either from a PT member, of one of Tom's combine members.


I agree and say go for it , you cant lose ,well other then the $20 dollars it takes to cover the perch fee and it will be worth every penny


----------



## Pigeon lower

MaryOfExeter said:


> It wouldn't be any money for you, just the entry fee ($20). You'd be sponsoring some birds from here, either from a PT member, of one of Tom's combine members.


Yeah but id rather race my own birds. Not pay for someone elses birds, if you get what im saying. I have better things to spend my money on


----------



## Flapdoodle

blongboy said:


> lol i missed this too ..i guess i'll wait till next year.





Pigeon0446 said:


> ..... I was on the fence if I would send birds or not so I figured I wouldn't sign up until last min if he still needed birds to fill the loft. I didn't want take sombody elses spot because I know some ppl are really looking foward to this and really want to fly and I don't want sombody else to miss out on somthing they will enjoy more then I would.....





g0ldenb0y55 said:


> Looks like we might have a lottery after all. To be honest I only expected about 30-40 to participate but we now have 50 to date. Let's hope everyone sends birds!


Anyone can sign up until Dec 18, I can can only take 50 breeders. We will hold the lottery to see who gets the spots. After Dec 18th anyone that signs up will be on the wait list behind those that did not get a lottery spot. Even with 50 signed up, life happens we all know that. If you get a spot and are not going to use it let us know so we can see if someone else wants to send birds. Last year less then half of those that originally signed up were able to send birds when the time came. It looks like we should have a good size group.

I am still waiting on details about the club band race. Once I get them I will post them.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Why is Lokota a feral pigeon now?


----------



## Pigeon lower

MaryOfExeter said:


> Why is Lokota a feral pigeon now?


Thats what i was wondering..


----------



## jpsnapdy

Alamo said:


> 50 Lofts.....25 different USA states...plus 1 from another country....Don`t we have anyone on this site from Canada ?? Can`t beleive that !!......Alamo


Yeah! I was hoping to see guys/gals from other places too...


----------



## R-Tune

im new here and nice to meet everyone.. so can we still sign up.. i take it that its full right? I would like to sign up if that is possible...


----------



## blongboy

R-Tune said:


> im new here and nice to meet everyone.. so can we still sign up.. i take it that its full right? I would like to sign up if that is possible...


yea you can still sign up


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Anyone can still sign up, but first come, first serve. And if people back out and places become available, you'll be in the drawing for the other places. That's if I understand correctly.


----------



## Flapdoodle

MaryOfExeter said:


> Anyone can still sign up, but first come, first serve. And if people back out and places become available, you'll be in the drawing for the other places. That's if I understand correctly.


My intention was to let anyone sign up that wants to participate until Dec 18. If we have 50 people sign up, those 50 get the spots. If we have more then that, say 60, I grandfather in those that participated this year (I highlighted them yellow on the sheet. If I missed someone let me know). The remaining spots will go via a raffle or lottery. Anyone that signed up that did not get a spot would be on a wait list. Added to that wait list would be any that signed up after Dec 18th. If people are not able to use their spot and do not want to sponsor local birds we can offer their spot to the first on the wait list. 

I hope that makes sense. Rather then do it first come first serve, I wanted it to be fair for everyone. Both those that live in the forum and those that only visit occasionally.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Makes sense to me!


----------



## bbcdon

Ditto's!!! You are doing a great job!!!


----------



## First To Hatch

I was going to sign up but I'd rather see people that know they are going to send birds then sign up and leech birds off someone. Maybe next time.


----------



## Flapdoodle

First To Hatch said:


> I was going to sign up but I'd rather see people that know they are going to send birds then sign up and leech birds off someone. Maybe next time.


No problem First To Hatch maybe next time. I did want to point out the birds that are "leeched" from someone else are actually my way of giving back to a couple of local guys that help me out. They want to test their birds in a one loft type situation. I have three guys here local that for sure will have two birds each in the loft. They give them to me, I let someone here from the forum sponsor them, after the race they (the sponsor) can decide what to do with their birds.


----------



## Crazy Pete

No problem First To Hatch maybe next time. I did want to point out the birds that are "leeched" from someone else are actually my way of giving back to a couple of local guys that help me out. They want to test their birds in a one loft type situation. I have three guys here local that for sure will have two birds each in the loft. They give them to me, I let someone here from the forum sponsor them, after the race they (the sponsor) can decide what to do with their birds

I don't think that is being a leech, its flap getting to help his club members difine the quality of there birds. It would be a real good test if Mr. Smith would let his wife send birds.
Dave


----------



## blongboy

ok i'm in!

sound too fun to miss out.

questions...
do i band them with my band?
and how do i pay?


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

Band your birds with AU or IF bands. Good luck!


----------



## blongboy

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> Band your birds with AU or IF bands. Good luck!


ok then ..how do i sent the money? paypal or somthing?


----------



## JaxRacingLofts

blongboy said:


> ok then ..how do i sent the money? paypal or somthing?


I was thinking I might just send a Postal money order along with the birds.. not sure if Flapadoodle has other idea.


----------



## pattersonk2002

*Payment*



jAxTecH said:


> I was thinking I might just send a Postal money order along with the birds.. not sure if Flapadoodle has other idea.


 That sounds like a good idea to me, if USPS gets your birds there the money will be with them. I am not sure if I would send return postage though, I was down one on the return trip I do think that Tom will be setting up a paypal account for this event though >Kevin


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

Money order is what I'll be sending with the birds.


----------



## conditionfreak

My guess is that out of the first fifty initial signees, 12 or so will end up not participating.

That always happens. Life has a way of getting in the way of pigeon racing. 

So, even though there are over fifty signed up right now. If you want to participate, SIGN UP. You have a good chance of being able to "get in". For twenty bucks, where else can you have this much fun for 8 weeks?


----------



## blongboy

jAxTecH said:


> I was thinking I might just send a Postal money order along with the birds.. not sure if Flapadoodle has other idea.


i thought payment was due before shipping.


----------



## blongboy

pattersonk2002 said:


> That sounds like a good idea to me, if USPS gets your birds there the money will be with them. I am not sure if I would send return postage though, I was down one on the return trip I do think that Tom will be setting up a paypal account for this event though >Kevin


paypal would be easier


----------



## conditionfreak

I prefer PayPal for payment. They have the "personal option" which does not have any fees charged to the sender nor the recipient. It is free, secure and so easy. Last time I sent a money order though, so I am good either way.


----------



## pattersonk2002

*8 weeks*



conditionfreak said:


> My guess is that out of the first fifty initial signees, 12 or so will end up not participating.
> 
> That always happens. Life has a way of getting in the way of pigeon racing.
> 
> So, even though there are over fifty signed up right now. If you want to participate, SIGN UP. You have a good chance of being able to "get in". For twenty bucks, where else can you have this much fun for 8 weeks?


 That eight weeks seemed like eight years but it was stressfull fun my doctor ordered. >kevin


----------



## bbcdon

Flapdoodle, just let us know if you want the money in advance. If not, I will put a USPS money order in a manila envelope taped to the inside of the shipping box. I will wait for your reply.


----------



## bbcdon

I did not read thoroughly all of the posts. Has their been a definite date range set yet for when Flapdoodle will receive the birds?


----------



## Matt Bell

Flapdoodle said:


> I hope the polls were not too frustrating. The idea behind them was mainly to see about how many people were thinking about participating as well as get some feed back. I didn’t intend for the group to necessarily decide what to do. It looks like we could have around 50 members participate, which is great. I know life happens and don’t know if we will get that many, but if we do great.
> 
> As far as the polls this is what I am thinking. No auction, no buy back, but I am not going to be able to do it for free. As was mentioned in one of the posts I will be saving a ton of time and money not having breeders and the work associated with them. I also do not have an old bird team. 100% of my time and $ I have to allocate to pigeons will be spent on the young bird team. With the exception of a pair of white birds, I have 0 pigeons. The reason I am going this route and just fly others birds to save time for the other important things in my life.
> 
> I have two options, #1 Go the club route or #2 the forum route. The guys in my club are interested in having me fly their birds. It would be cool to do this same thing at the club level we did here last year. Each guy sends a team of four. Pool the birds each week. I would not have to post anything anywhere. The guys can just look at the results each week. There is no way I would collect a fee for doing this nor do I think they would pay. Out of the two options going the club route would be a lot easier. No videos, posting updates, messing around at the post office picking up and shipping birds, or the stress of having to report lost or sick birds in the forum.
> 
> I think it is fun on the forum. Like I said before I want to do it. I enjoy the videos, stuff like the pretty pigeon show, but it is a lot of extra work.
> 
> Here is what I am able to do next year:
> 
> 
> 
> Two bird limit per breeder, $20 dollar per two bird team, nonrefundable, no replacements.
> Have birds shipped to me around 30 days old.
> *[*]Birds accepted anytime the weeks of March 21, 28, April 4, or 11. *
> You pay to ship the birds to/from my loft, If money to ship the birds back is not received within two weeks after the last race the bird becomes my property.
> The winner of the Pigeon Talk Classic will be the bird who scores the most points in the combine for the season.
> The entry cap is going to be 50 two bird teams.
> 
> The $20 will be sent with the birds or sent prior to that to secure your spot. I am going to build a new loft. I will not accept any money until the loft is complete.
> 
> We have a couple junior members that want to participate in 2011. A few generous donations that have not been made yet will allow those junior members to participate for free. If you are interested in donating or are a junior member wishing to participate send me a PM.
> 
> I will throw this out there one last time. If anyone else is interested in hosting this year shoot me a PM and I will retract this post and fly club birds.
> 
> You should start to see some loft construction photos around the holidays. Any questions post away… This will be a lot of fun.


Yep, the dates are listed above.


----------



## bbcdon

Matt Bell said:


> Yep, the dates are listed above.


Thanks Matt. I have been exposed for being lazy, darn it!


----------



## Crazy Pete

I'm just going to put a $20 in an enveolpe and tape it in the box.
Dave


----------



## blongboy

Crazy Pete said:


> I'm just going to put a $20 in an enveolpe and tape it in the box.
> Dave


we have the same thought!


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Last year I think the money was due before the first race, or whenever his combine's dues were due. Not necessarily before you send birds. But I'm not sure if it's the same.


----------



## blongboy

from the rule:

The $20 will be sent prior to 2/1 to secure your spot. I am going to build a new loft. I will not accept any money until the loft is complete.


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

It states on the rules and guidelines that the money should be sent with the birds or before to secure your spot.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Maybe I should have read those...hmmm...


----------



## blongboy

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> It states on the rules and guidelines that the money should be sent with the birds or before to secure your spot.


yea i know ...but read the other one ..the one that say Rules, Entry Form, Who else has signed up? one.


----------



## conditionfreak

MaryOfExeter said:


> Last year I think the money was due before the first race, or whenever his combine's dues were due. Not necessarily before you send birds. But I'm not sure if it's the same.


No money was required last year. Just ship the birds to him. It was "free".

Or am I even more senile than my wife and kids say I am.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Well, before it was changed to free. It was originally going to be somewhere around $25 I think.


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

blongboy said:


> yea i know ...but read the other one ..the one that say Rules, Entry Form, Who else has signed up? one.


Yeah, I guess he changed that...

it now says....

*"The $20 will be sent prior to 2/1 to secure your spot. I am going to build a new loft. I will not accept any money until the loft is complete." *


----------



## Flapdoodle

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> It states on the rules and guidelines that the money should be sent with the birds or before to secure your spot.





blongboy said:


> from the rule:
> 
> The $20 will be sent prior to 2/1 to secure your spot. I am going to build a new loft. I will not accept any money until the loft is complete.





conditionfreak said:


> My guess is that out of the first fifty initial signees, 12 or so will end up not participating.
> 
> That always happens. Life has a way of getting in the way of pigeon racing.
> 
> So, even though there are over fifty signed up right now. If you want to participate, SIGN UP. You have a good chance of being able to "get in". For twenty bucks, where else can you have this much fun for 8 weeks?


I agree with conditionfreak life happens. If we get 55 or so sign up I am sure some will not be able to send birds, that is fine.

I am going to move that loft I posted about. It has five sections and we will have room for all that want to participate so won't need to do a lottery (provided we only have a few more sign up). 

As far as securing a spot that won’t need to happen. Just send the money with the birds is fine.


----------



## Flapdoodle

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> Yeah, I guess he changed that...
> 
> it now says....
> 
> *"The $20 will be sent prior to 2/1 to secure your spot. I am going to build a new loft. I will not accept any money until the loft is complete." *


I know I got in trouble for changing rules last time around. Like last year I will get it all set up and finalized before any money or birds are sent.


----------



## blongboy

Flapdoodle said:


> I agree with conditionfreak life happens. If we get 55 or so sign up I am sure some will not be able to send birds, that is fine.
> 
> I am going to move that loft I posted about. It has five sections and we will have room for all that want to participate so won't need to do a lottery (provided we only have a few more sign up).
> 
> As far as securing a spot that won’t need to happen. Just send the money with the birds is fine.


cool ... so everyone is in!! ...is it possible if i can send the 20$ and the shipping cost (the shipping that is coming back)?


----------



## Flapdoodle

blongboy said:


> cool ... so everyone is in!! ...is it possible if i can send the 20$ and the shipping cost (the shipping that is coming back)?


I will set up paypal for return shipping. Half of the birds this year ended up MIA  I don't want any return shipping until after the races


----------



## pigeonnewb

How many can you send out to race at any given station? Seems you can accept up to 5000 two team birds. Granted it won't get to that point but just curious on your shipping limit per race..


----------



## blongboy

1000 birds!! that alot of birds and alot of feed.


----------



## conditionfreak

pigeonnewb said:


> How many can you send out to race at any given station? Seems you can accept up to 5000 two team birds. Granted it won't get to that point but just curious on your shipping limit per race..


Surely you meant 50 two bird teams. (and ya doesn't have to call me Shirley)


----------



## pigeonnewb

If you read the rules, he put..

*The entry cap is going to be 5,000 two bird teams.*

Maybe its a typo.. LoL! I dunno.. Just seems awfully high to me.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

blongboy said:


> 1000 birds!! that alot of birds and alot of feed.


Sorry the math teacher in me comes out. 5,000 two birds teams:
5000 x 2 birds = 10,000 birds
What a load of poop that would be.


----------



## Flapdoodle

pigeonnewb said:


> How many can you send out to race at any given station? Seems you can accept up to 5000 two team birds. Granted it won't get to that point but just curious on your shipping limit per race..





conditionfreak said:


> Surely you meant 50 two bird teams. (and ya doesn't have to call me Shirley)


Dear Shirley,

I did put 5,000 two bird teams. I just wanted to see if everyone was paying attention. I don't want to tell 5 or 6 sorry you can't send birds. Providing we don't get many more sign up everyone is in, I am going to keep the reg up until Dec 18th. I am sure we will have a few people sign up not able to send birds. If all end up sending birds great I will have the room. The issue will be shipping. There is plenty of room on the truck for all the birds. The race limit is 20 birds in each race, 40 each week. We could have some really great homing pigeons that are sent each week as trainers but never trap in enough time to make the next weeks race team. Not a perfect system but it will work. 

I hope you all have a great Thanksgiving.


----------



## rackerman

*I have to say "this is going to be better than last year". I just hope my birds produce for me to send the winners...........*


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## MaryOfExeter

I'm excited  This is going to be great! Now the problem is figuring out who I want to send...hmmm...


----------



## pigeonnewb

Flapdoodle said:


> Dear Shirley,
> 
> I did put 5,000 two bird teams. I just wanted to see if everyone was paying attention. I don't want to tell 5 or 6 sorry you can't send birds. Providing we don't get many more sign up everyone is in, I am going to keep the reg up until Dec 18th. I am sure we will have a few people sign up not able to send birds. If all end up sending birds great I will have the room. The issue will be shipping. There is plenty of room on the truck for all the birds. The race limit is 20 birds in each race, 40 each week. We could have some really great homing pigeons that are sent each week as trainers but never trap in enough time to make the next weeks race team. Not a perfect system but it will work.
> 
> I hope you all have a great Thanksgiving.


Tom,
So each week all the birds will go to the races, no matter, if its on your race team or as trainers? I'm just trying to clearify for myself your intentions for the birds we send.
Thanks in advance.


----------



## Flapdoodle

pigeonnewb said:


> Tom,
> So each week all the birds will go to the races, no matter, if its on your race team or as trainers? I'm just trying to clearify for myself your intentions for the birds we send.
> Thanks in advance.


You are correct. I will do what I can to put together a test race with a couple of other flyers the week before the first race. Let's say I have 80 birds at that point. I will take the first 40 birds clocked from the test race or training toss and enter them in the 1st race. 1st bird in the A race, 2nd in the B race, 3rd in the A race, 4th in the B race... Go down the list until we have 40 birds, all the others will be sent as trainers and released half hour after the B race. 

I will take the results from the A and B race as well as the trapping order from those sent as trainers and decide who to send in the next race. If a bird was sent in one of the races but trapped late he will be a trainer the next week and I will move those that were first among the trainers up to fill spots in the A or B race. We could have a bird go to all the races as a trainer and never entered. We could have a bird win the first race, trap late the second race, and be moved to the trainers the rest of the race series. If a bird shows me something I will race him. It is within my best interest to race the best birds and that is what I plan on doing. I will post everything on line and make it all as transparent as I can. 

Not as good as a regular one loft race, but by the end we will know which are the best birds.


----------



## pigeonnewb

Sounds fair enough. Thanks for the reply and clearification.
Chou


----------



## blongboy

Flapdoodle said:


> You are correct. I will do what I can to put together a test race with a couple of other flyers the week before the first race. Let's say I have 80 birds at that point. I will take the first 40 birds clocked from the test race or training toss and enter them in the 1st race. 1st bird in the A race, 2nd in the B race, 3rd in the A race, 4th in the B race... Go down the list until we have 40 birds, all the others will be sent as trainers and released half hour after the B race.
> 
> I will take the results from the A and B race as well as the trapping order from those sent as trainers and decide who to send in the next race. If a bird was sent in one of the races but trapped late he will be a trainer the next week and I will move those that were first among the trainers up to fill spots in the A or B race. We could have a bird go to all the races as a trainer and never entered. We could have a bird win the first race, trap late the second race, and be moved to the trainers the rest of the race series. If a bird shows me something I will race him. It is within my best interest to race the best birds and that is what I plan on doing. I will post everything on line and make it all as transparent as I can.
> 
> Not as good as a regular one loft race, but by the end we will know which are the best birds.


sound fair ..every bird get to fly.
hope mine do ok!!


----------



## Big T

People, I'm sorry to say but there will be losses. This will lower the training numbers but with this many birds we should be able to keep the racing birds at twenty for both the A and B races. The trick for each of us is to send a bird that is consistent. This ensure our bird is in most of the races and scores the most points and win bragging rights. But then that is always the plan. Once again I feel for Flap, he has to make the hard choices. But if each of us send him a bird then we must respect his choice to make my bird a trainer. Besides, after last year I think he knows what he is doing. Also where else are you going to be able to test your bird against so many others for that price. Between feed, gas and time I do not see Flap breaking even.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

I agree, I trust his choices  I don't mind if my birds (if they are even left by then!) end up being trainers. Even as trainers, it's still basically another race, and I'll still be anxious to see what order they trap.

If your clock is going to tell you what time the trainers clocked in, then they could still be included with the others as far as the PT race results go.


----------



## ace in the hole

MaryOfExeter said:


> I agree, I trust his choices  I don't mind if my birds (if they are even left by then!) end up being trainers. Even as trainers, it's still basically another race, and I'll still be anxious to see what order they trap.
> 
> If your clock is going to tell you what time the trainers clocked in, then they could still be included with the others as far as the PT race results go.


That is a good point Becky.

I know it is nice to see were your birds come in with the club and combine but as for the PT race. ( If Tom Agrees ) If there are to many birds the trainers YPM could be calculated and placement given for our PT race.


----------



## conditionfreak

Maybe I qm missing something, but I see a flaw in this planned system for deciding the PT Champion.

As I understand it, the bird with the most Combine Points will be the PT Winner. Which is different from the way the winner was determined last year. Last year, the PT winner was based only on points earned against other PT entries, and not points earned in the combine races.

So, can a bird earn combine points in the training basket/trailer? No. Can a bird in the B race earn as many points as a bird in the A race?

I don't know for sure, but I think not. Someone enlighten me please.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Yes, A and B points are equal. It's two separate races.


----------



## Crazy Pete

I'm not sure how the training thing works but the A and B races are equil races, points earned would be the same. 
Dave


----------



## pigeonnewb

I don't want to stir up the pot any but just my experiences racing club races that. I usually don't compare my birds in race A to the birds in race B and then compare them to the trainers. One reason is the 30 minutes betwen each one, can make a significant impact on how fast they get home. Thats one and a half hours in between the three releases, if flown according to AU rules (which I know Tom's club does.) The time in between the A race and trainers is pretty significant to me in terms of evaluating pigeons performance. Comparing an A race bird to a trainer might not be compared on even grounds. It would be like comparing apples to oranges. For example: Let's say each member in his club DID NOT ship same amount of birds in every race. One race would be less than the other, flying more birds to one general area over another. That race has a certain amount of birds in it neither to pull it one way or another off on or off the line of flight, maybe for a brief moment. If that was the A race that had more birds, it would put the B race bird at an disavantage or advantage depending on the fluctuations in number of birds compared to loft location and the main line of flight. The trainers would be at neither and advantage or disavantage depending on how many trainers were sent on that race. If the only trainers were Tom's then the trainers (in an perfect world) should head straight home and should out perform the race birds in YPM because they wouldn't have no other birds trying to pull them elsewhere. So I really don't know how we can compare each bird to one another UNLESS it was released at the same time with the same group. Other than that it wouldn't be comparing apples to apples.
Just my thoughts on paper. Any ramblings are welcome.


----------



## Pigeon0446

They probly won't be the same in both the A and B races since I'm pretty sure they are using the Standard AU point system that's in the winspeed program. Not a customized point system where the first bird would get 100 points and decrese with each bird like some clubs use. But with the Standard AU point system the points are based on how many birds are in the race and normally the B race has less birds. So the winner in the B race could wind up behind a lower placed bird in the A race as far as champion points go if the A has a higher bird count.


----------



## pigeonnewb

Pigeon0446 said:


> They probly won't be the same in both the A and B races since I'm pretty sure they are using the Standard AU point system that's in the winspeed program. Not a customized point system where the first bird would get 100 points and decrese with each bird like some clubs use. But with the Standard AU point system the points are based on how many birds are in the race and normally the B race has less birds. So the winner in the B race could wind up behind a lower placed bird in the A race as far as champion points go if the A has a higher bird count.


I just think it would be hard to say this is the overall winner if they're not playing on even grounds. Though, I know, for Tom, it will probably be easy to choose the best bird, good birds always stand out.


----------



## Pigeon0446

pigeonnewb said:


> I don't want to stir up the pot any but just my experiences racing club races that. I usually don't compare my birds in race A to the birds in race B and then compare them to the trainers. One reason is the 30 minutes betwen each one, can make a significant impact on how fast they get home. Thats one and a half hours in between the three releases, if flown according to AU rules (which I know Tom's club does.) The time in between the A race and trainers is pretty significant to me in terms of evaluating pigeons performance. Comparing an A race bird to a trainer might not be compared on even grounds. It would be like comparing apples to oranges. For example: Let's say each member in his club DID NOT ship same amount of birds in every race. One race would be less than the other, flying more birds to one general area over another. That race has a certain amount of birds in it neither to pull it one way or another off on or off the line of flight, maybe for a brief moment. If that was the A race that had more birds, it would put the B race bird at an disavantage or advantage depending on the fluctuations in number of birds compared to loft location and the main line of flight. The trainers would be at neither and advantage or disavantage depending on how many trainers were sent on that race. If the only trainers were Tom's then the trainers (in an perfect world) should head straight home and should out perform the race birds in YPM because they wouldn't have no other birds trying to pull them elsewhere. So I really don't know how we can compare each bird to one another UNLESS it was released at the same time with the same group. Other than that it wouldn't be comparing apples to apples.
> Just my thoughts on paper. Any ramblings are welcome.


We see it here all the time with our money races where they have an auction and regular band race going up a half hour apart. The speeds can be drasticly different. Normally the second race is a lil slower I think because they run into the slower packs from the first race and they wind up joining up and slowing the pack down. Unless it's good blow home day and the winds are calm in the morning and pick up though the day then the later race would make a better speed.


----------



## pigeonnewb

Yea, hopefully Tom will clearify things for us. I was just putting my thoughts on paper from my past experiences. Maybe I'm to technical..  If so. I'm sorry.


----------



## Alamo

In our combine,we release the $$ Auction Races 1/2 hr before the regular race birds...The combine speeds are allmost 90% of the time faster then the Auction race birds....I think only 1 Auction Race out of 10 races,the speed was faster then the regular race....The reason I think is,the Auction race birdage is around 80 to 110 birds...The combine birdage 300 to 500 birds...More brains to fly a straighter course for home,I think is the answer...Alamo


----------



## Pigeon0446

Alamo said:


> In our combine,we release the $$ Auction Races 1/2 hr before the regular race birds...The combine speeds are allmost 90% of the time faster then the Auction race birds....I think only 1 Auction Race out of 10 races,the speed was faster then the regular race....The reason I think is,the Auction race birdage is around 80 to 110 birds...The combine birdage 300 to 500 birds...More brains to fly a straighter course for home,I think is the answer...Alamo


I think part of the reason the auction birds make slower speed is because maybe they really aren't the best birds to fly that week they're just shipped because they have to race in that auction race. Plus like you said they are the smaller flock they are more likely to get busted up by another race then the regular race since the regular race has the numbers to to prevent a total bust up of the flock. A small race with 80 birds can can get busted up by sombody's training flock my combine birds aren't getting messed up by anything since we've got 2000 to 2500 birds going up each week and there's nothing that's gonna bust them up the only thing that would rival them around here is the CJC but they would just drag our birds towards home not off course.


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

pigeonnewb said:


> Yea, hopefully Tom will clearify things for us. I was just putting my thoughts on paper from my past experiences. Maybe I'm to technical..  If so. I'm sorry.


No need to be sorry, I think you bring up a very good point in terms of an even playing field. I'm now curious to know what everyone's thoughts are....


----------



## pigeonnewb

That was just my point that there are variations and different factors in every release even though they were all at the same race point. So I don't believe judging every pigeon on the same scale is completely fair for all the birds racing from the same point of release even though they had different release times.


----------



## conditionfreak

The above few posts made my point concerning having the competition spread out over A, B and training baskets.

It is a flawed system for sure, in determining the "best" bird sent to Flapdoodle from the PT members. However, it is the only way I can see that will allow for so many entries.

Except, the one scenario in which PT birds are raced against themselves and no other birds. But then, that would take Flapdoodle away from racing with his club and combine. I would not want to do that and the trouble and expense of him doing that would be tremendous.

So.... we are going to have to go with his plan as described and make the best of it. Some will not like thier birds perhaps not EVER being in an actual club/combine race, for sure. Some birds will not get their fair shake at the top competition (the B race really doesn't compare with the A race, here in Cincy at least). This is not all bad, as it allows us to have a built in excuse for our bird/s not doing better. Last season, some birds missed a few races for various reasons, some missed more than others, and all birds missed one race for illness (or being "off health"). But all in all, it worked out well.

It should still be fun and well worth the 20 bucks. A toy that your kid or grandkid tires of in two days, could easily cost you 20 bucks, and has no chance of giving you national bragging rights here.  The only way to actually make a fair, complete and true judgement of the birds entered into this competition, is to have a large perch entry fee, and that is not even counting any potential prize pool that would naturally be brought up by those paying such a large perch fee.

No. This is the way to go. The PT forum competition started as, and should remain as, for bragging rights only, and most of all, for fun, fun, and more fun. Heck, just the good humored trash talking between some of us was a blast. Even if that lucky Mrs. Smith's bird did beat mine (although she had three entries and I had two).  (see, I had a built in excuse for that one too).


----------



## Crazy Pete

I think you people put too much thought in to a for bragging rights race. If my birds make it through the season I'll be happy, If they do good I'll be thrilled.
Dave


----------



## rackerman

conditionfreak said:


> The above few posts made my point concerning having the competition spread out over A, B and training baskets.
> 
> It is a flawed system for sure, in determining the "best" bird sent to Flapdoodle from the PT members. However, it is the only way I can see that will allow for so many entries.
> 
> Except, the one scenario in which PT birds are raced against themselves and no other birds. But then, that would take Flapdoodle away from racing with his club and combine. I would not want to do that and the trouble and expense of him doing that would be tremendous.
> 
> So.... we are going to have to go with his plan as described and make the best of it. Some will not like thier birds perhaps not EVER being in an actual club/combine race, for sure. Some birds will not get their fair shake at the top competition (the B race really doesn't compare with the A race, here in Cincy at least). This is not all bad, as it allows us to have a built in excuse for our bird/s not doing better. Last season, some birds missed a few races for various reasons, some missed more than others, and all birds missed one race for illness (or being "off health"). But all in all, it worked out well.
> 
> It should still be fun and well worth the 20 bucks. A toy that your kid or grandkid tires of in two days, could easily cost you 20 bucks, and has no chance of giving you national bragging rights here.  The only way to actually make a fair, complete and true judgement of the birds entered into this competition, is to have a large perch entry fee, and that is not even counting any potential prize pool that would naturally be brought up by those paying such a large perch fee.
> 
> No. This is the way to go. The PT forum competition started as, and should remain as, for bragging rights only, and most of all, for fun, fun, and more fun. Heck, just the good humored trash talking between some of us was a blast. Even if that lucky Mrs. Smith's bird did beat mine (although she had three entries and I had two).  (see, I had a built in excuse for that one too).


I'm just going to race to see how my birds do and like you say, for the fun of it. I have never raced my birds and I can't wait to see how they do. Bcr1 is also entering and I have his birds, so I will also be sending his birds too. Like I say, all for fun. I hope they do good, if not so be it, like ya say, $20.00 is worth it. CAN'T WAIT............


----------



## Feathered Dragons

*Right On*

I'm right there with ya Crazy Pete


----------



## MaryOfExeter

mcox0112 said:


> I'm right there with ya Crazy Pete


Same here  I was just trying to include everyone in the PT race.


----------



## Crazy Pete

I would like to include everyone, just how are we going to get Warren to send birds. I offered to send $100 to a charity of his wifes choise if he wins. If any body has a better idea lets here it. How do we beat the champ if we have no champ?
Dave


----------



## Feathered Dragons

*Warren*

He might be coming out to my place next weekend to check out some new barless I'm getting. If he does, should I lock him up till he says he's going to send birds?


----------



## Crazy Pete

Not sure about that he get his mind set on something I doubt we will change it. Maybe you should offer his wife a bottle of wine.lol
Dave


----------



## Feathered Dragons

I'll try that. LOL


----------



## Flapdoodle

conditionfreak said:


> Maybe I qm missing something, but I see a flaw in this planned system for deciding the PT Champion.
> 
> As I understand it, the bird with the most Combine Points will be the PT Winner. Which is different from the way the winner was determined last year. Last year, the PT winner was based only on points earned against other PT entries, and not points earned in the combine races.
> 
> So, can a bird earn combine points in the training basket/trailer? No. Can a bird in the B race earn as many points as a bird in the A race?
> 
> I don't know for sure, but I think not. Someone enlighten me please.


The system is flawed. The biggest issue I see is a bird can come into form or get hot on a day when it was sent as a trainer. It would come in 1st among the trainers but score no points. The next week that bird would get moved to either the A or B race but miss out on earning any points that week. If it is truly a good bird it would keep performing and earn points in the following races but it still missed some points. 

I am not sure what we can do about that. I thought about average speed or some points system we could come up with and include trainers. The problem I see with that is the conditions can be so different from the A release to the trainers release. Also the trainers have a huge advantage of being released as a large group out of crates that only contain birds flying back to the same loft.

I really think the combine points is the best way. A bird can win about the same number of points in the A and B race. It depends on the number of birds in the race but that is pretty equal. In the loft this year we had 3 birds from the B race score more points then any bird in the A race. 

I know it is not perfect but I think it will work.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Might just give the top 3 of the training races points. Not the rewards of the A or B but something. This would reward the birds in form. You could also do Champion bird, Average speed bird, Champion loft or team. Give the trophy to the most points, but also have some side awards. Best looking, fastest, slowest, best two bird team etc.


----------



## pattersonk2002

*winners*



hillfamilyloft said:


> Might just give the top 3 of the training races points. Not the rewards of the A or B but something. This would reward the birds in form. You could also do Champion bird, Average speed bird, Champion loft or team. Give the trophy to the most points, but also have some side awards. Best looking, fastest, slowest, best two bird team etc.



I was thinking along the same line. You can have more then one classification and keep track of all the birds flight times. I am sure it will be more work on Toms part but since it is all for fun, even the trainers should be tallied for totals in the PT race. Somehow I think this would be fare even if they don't win in a combine. >Kevin


----------



## conditionfreak

Ha Ha

Leave it to a bunch of racing pigeon enthusiast to make something simple into something complicated.

Maybe we should just do the season as Flapdoodle described, but those surviving birds at the end, could be taken by him (or someone) for a 300 mile toss, and they only race against themselves/ourselves. This could determine the trophy winner. I could pay for the gas for the PT one loft race, if needed. But Tom (or whomever) would have to donate their time and effort for the toss drive.

But throughout the regular season, updates could let us know how all the birds are doing in the combine competition, and which ones "disappear".

Thus, it would come down to a true one loft race, with all being equal for all of our birds. No club or combine birds to "mess it up and make us look bad".

We would then get to see how our birds match up with the combines birds over the season, and yet have our own one loft race and winner. That last "PT birds only" race might have 80 birds in it, or 20. 

So....we have our cake and eat it too.

Just some thoughts.


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

*The Moment You All Have Been Waiting For !!*

I would thank my wife for helping me become famous once again. I also would like to thank ConditionFreak for donating the trophy. And of course I would like to thank Flapdoodle for holding this event, and making this all possible.

The winning bird "Vanilla Ice" was awarded to Allen Smith of Quiet Time Loft. Allen was one of the participants in our 2007 National Testing Program, and he had exceeded all of our expectations in terms of reporting. We are confident that Vanilla Ice will make a fine addition to the current stock of SFL birds already at Quiet Time Loft.  

This first You Tube Clip shows *Karen Smith with Vanilla Ice and her Trophy !* 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vn_fBcW0_EM


This You Tube clip shows Vanilla Ice with her new owner ! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGyMsv6qZY8


----------



## RodSD

Your wife is pretty!

The bird is pretty!

The trophy is pretty, too!

It is just me or you both look younger in the video than your signature picture?


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

RodSD said:


> Your wife is pretty!
> 
> The bird is pretty!
> 
> The trophy is pretty, too!
> 
> It is just me or you both look younger in the video than your signature picture?


Thank you ! 

Yep the wife is a looker ! 

And I had a beard in the photo so that made me look older. Funny how at one stage in your life you want to look more mature. And then later on, you try to do everything to look younger then what you are. We were born in the 1950's so we ain't really old folks and we ain't kids either !


----------



## Feathered Dragons

*Poor Warren*



RodSD said:


> Your wife is pretty!
> 
> The bird is pretty!
> 
> The trophy is pretty, too!
> 
> It is just me or you both look younger in the video than your signature picture?


I see you left poor Warren out of the pretty list.  You could of said he looked Pretty Good. LOL


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Warren
Ask Karen if she is sending birds this year.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Are you sure Vanilla Ice is a girl? Or am I just seeing things when I thought I saw blue feathers on a red grizzle?

Nice videos, and congrats to all three of you


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

MaryOfExeter said:


> Are you sure Vanilla Ice is a girl? Or am I just seeing things when I thought I saw blue feathers on a red grizzle?
> 
> Nice videos, and congrats to all three of you


 I don't think I saw any blue feathers on this bird, but we will have to ask Allen of Quiet Time Loft when he gets home. I think Allen will agree that with the Smith birds, the males look very male and the females look very female. He commented that when you walk into his loft, you can tell right away which pigeons are the Smith birds. I have been fooled in the past, but I am pretty darn sure that we are looking at a girl pigeon here.


----------



## JaxRacingLofts

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> I would thank my wife for helping me become famous once again. I also would like to thank ConditionFreak for donating the trophy. And of course I would like to thank Flapdoodle for holding this event, and making this all possible.
> 
> The winning bird "Vanilla Ice" was awarded to Allen Smith of Quiet Time Loft. Allen was one of the participants in our 2007 National Testing Program, and he had exceeded all of expectations in terms of reporting. We are confident that Vanilla Ice will make a fine addition to the current stock of SFL birds already at Quiet Time Loft.
> 
> This first You Tube Clip shows *Karen Smith with Vanilla Ice and her Trophy !*
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vn_fBcW0_EM
> 
> 
> This You Tube clip shows Vanilla Ice with her new owner !
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGyMsv6qZY8


Thank you for posting the videos. I was curious to see what kind of bird excels in this race and like the saying goes a picture is worth a thousand words. Also seeing this hens color for me dispels the myth of white pigeons being "hawkbait". 
Thats a very nice trophy as well, that was very cool of conditionfreak to donate it.
I wish you returning champions good luck in the 2011 race but I hope to get one of those trophies as well next year.


----------



## SouthTown Racers

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> I would thank my wife for helping me become famous once again. I also would like to thank ConditionFreak for donating the trophy. And of course I would like to thank Flapdoodle for holding this event, and making this all possible.
> 
> The winning bird "Vanilla Ice" was awarded to Allen Smith of Quiet Time Loft. Allen was one of the participants in our 2007 National Testing Program, and he had exceeded all of expectations in terms of reporting. We are confident that Vanilla Ice will make a fine addition to the current stock of SFL birds already at Quiet Time Loft.
> 
> This first You Tube Clip shows *Karen Smith with Vanilla Ice and her Trophy !*
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vn_fBcW0_EM
> 
> 
> This You Tube clip shows Vanilla Ice with her new owner !
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGyMsv6qZY8


looks like your wife didnt want to make a video!


----------



## conditionfreak

Oh the humility of it all.

Not only was I beat by a girl. I was beat by a white pigeon!

To top it all, the winning bird was picked because it was "pretty". By a person that doesn't even know how to hold a racing pigeon. 

Maybe that is what I am doing wrong. I should be hugging them and picking out the pretty ones.

Oh the humility.... 

Gonna go out to my loft and put some pretty breeders together.  Ha Ha

Reminds me of when my younger brother and I were kids. Our father took us to a horse race track and told us both to pick a horse to bet on. My brother picked a horse that was 100 to 1 to win. My father said, Ricky, that horse has no chance. Why did you pick it? My brother Ricky said "because it has the longest tail".

Yep. You gessed it. That horse won. Ha Ha

Hey Warren. My wife says you won because you are Smiths. She is a Smith. She says Smiths are better than Thomas'.

It just keeps getting worse and worse down here. I HAVE to win this next one. To regain my manhood.


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

For the record....it really is not a "White" pigeon....you can't really tell from the video, as it was too dark inside, and too cold outside, but it was a very lite silver, (ok red bar) but the bars are nearly invisible. 

I also tried "educating" Karen on how to hold a pigeon....forget about it....in her defense, there were four cats in the room, including a 25 pound Tom Cat, named Ole Sammy, I rescued as a baby from under the pigeon loft. She felt it better to hold the bird close and be safe. But, I am looking into this new theory of picking "pretty ones" and hugging them a couple times a day ! I understand it works on wives as well !!!

I got a kick out of the longest tail theory....problem with those things when they win, you can't really argue with sucess. Cause to be honest, this is not the first time she picked a winner. Had I listened to her, I would have sent a couple other "pretty" ones (sisters to this Vanilla Ice) to the Winners Cup and Flamingo, and from the race results they had on the club level, I think I would have done better then my selections that I sent, so maybe there is something to it. Problem is, if she gets too good at picking winners, I don't know if my fragile ego could withstand it ! 

As far as the Smith's go...there is a good reason why there are so many of us. You see females are attracted to the winners. And when the females discover the Smith's, well you end up with a lot of little Smith's and the process starts all over again. 

Fortunately, you can increase your odds of winning, and you don't have to change your name, you can simply acquire some of those Smith pigeons and then you to can enjoy this wonderful sport of ours. Just make sure you have a pretty wife helping you pick your race entires !

I did the best I could to help you win the next one Conditonfreak, I stepped back from this next event to give you a sporting or at least a fighting chance ! Now ya know humility is not my strong suit.....if I was to enter again and have my wife pick yet another winner, why I don't think either of us could effectively deal with it. It might just cause us to quit pigeons or something !


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

SouthTown Racers said:


> looks like your wife didnt want to make a video!


Naw....she is just a lot more self conscious then I am. She worries that maybe a hair could be out of place or something....where as I am very comfortable having my image recorded for future generations !  I think it was when I told her that perhaps as many as 1,000,000 people from around the world may see her image that she began to get a bit nervous.


----------



## RodSD

conditionfreak said:


> Oh the humility of it all.
> 
> Not only was I beat by a girl. I was beat by a white pigeon!
> 
> To top it all, the winning bird was picked because it was "pretty". By a person that doesn't even know how to hold a racing pigeon.
> 
> Maybe that is what I am doing wrong. I should be hugging them and picking out the pretty ones.
> 
> Oh the humility....
> 
> Gonna go out to my loft and put some pretty breeders together.  Ha Ha
> 
> Reminds me of when my younger brother and I were kids. Our father took us to a horse race track and told us both to pick a horse to bet on. My brother picked a horse that was 100 to 1 to win. My father said, Ricky, that horse has no chance. Why did you pick it? My brother Ricky said "because it has the longest tail".
> 
> Yep. You gessed it. That horse won. Ha Ha
> 
> Hey Warren. My wife says you won because you are Smiths. She is a Smith. She says Smiths are better than Thomas'.
> 
> It just keeps getting worse and worse down here. I HAVE to win this next one. To regain my manhood.


I can't help but laugh here in San Diego. I can't stop chuckling. Poor you! Now you know the deep secret of choosing the right bird to win. You must have a pretty handler (like a pretty wife) choosing a pretty bird and to hold(hugged) like it is the most loved pigeon in the whole world. Then the bird will do its very best to pay in return.

I am praying for your manhood to return from this side of the country. And speaking of Smith name I first met that name with Wesson on it. They were very powerful! It can knock yourself out!


----------



## blongboy

conditionfreak said:


> Oh the humility of it all.
> 
> Not only was I beat by a girl. I was beat by a white pigeon!
> 
> To top it all, the winning bird was picked because it was "pretty". By a person that doesn't even know how to hold a racing pigeon.
> 
> Maybe that is what I am doing wrong. I should be hugging them and picking out the pretty ones.
> 
> Oh the humility....
> 
> Gonna go out to my loft and put some pretty breeders together.  Ha Ha
> 
> Reminds me of when my younger brother and I were kids. Our father took us to a horse race track and told us both to pick a horse to bet on. My brother picked a horse that was 100 to 1 to win. My father said, Ricky, that horse has no chance. Why did you pick it? My brother Ricky said "because it has the longest tail".
> 
> Yep. You gessed it. That horse won. Ha Ha
> 
> Hey Warren. My wife says you won because you are Smiths. She is a Smith. She says Smiths are better than Thomas'.
> 
> It just keeps getting worse and worse down here. I HAVE to win this next one. To regain my manhood.


your so funny man


----------



## conditionfreak

Warren. I really do appreciate you not participating in this next event. That gives me a better chance of winning.

Now, if the rest of the contestants would just be as nice as you, I could win for sure.

But alas. Not everyone believes in the Obama doctrine of "spreading the wealth".  I'm glad you do.

Besides, what are the odds of you winning this event two years in a row? 10%? 30%? Nil?

My plans for this years entries into this event (again, reminds me of the old saying, "man makes plans and God laughs", are to enter one bird from my Ludo line, a black white flight bred to a Jan Ardon all black import hen I bought direct from Belgium. The yongsters should be all black, I would guess. The other entry hopefully will be from last years contestant "Marine Won" mated with a red check hen graciously given to me by Flapdoodle. 

These will diffinitely be experiments and I have never had any youngsters out of these birds before.

I will either clean up with first and second place. Or (more likely), be the first birds lost on a five mile training toss. 

I mated up my birds yesterday, but I believe some of them did not forget their mates from last year and might be "cheating". I have to watch them closely to ascertain who is being faithful and who is not. I do have two certain pair in individual cages though. But they are not the ones I described above. They are my most expensive birds and failed to give me youngsters last year. One pair is old and the other is ?????. I just don't know what his problem is. Trying him with a different hen this year. Maybe he is sterile and I was snookered by the guy I bought him from.


----------



## A_Smith

My wife and I had a great visit with Warren and Karen yesterday. I always like to take a crate along. What a great surprise to be taking this bird home. My wife picked a pretty mate for her From SFL stock too. I can't wait to start training there young. Thank You  I love when I can add more SFL bloodline to my loft. The birds are a pleasure to handle and they fly great too.


----------



## conditionfreak

Not to derail this thread in a completely different direction. But one of my favorite songs is "Ice Ice Baby" by Vanilla Ice. You should hear me "sing it" (not sure it is actually singing though).

"Rollin in my 5.0" 

(yea, I like rap music. So sue me)


----------



## RodSD

Did you not make a video of that singing and dancing once? Once you win this Pigeon-Talk Classic, you probably can sing and dance. I would prefer Tim Allen's Home Improvement grunt though.


----------



## conditionfreak

I didn't make a video, but I did make a CD.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

What is that dark spot on the back of the neck?


----------



## A_Smith

MaryOfExeter said:


> What is that dark spot on the back of the neck?


If you are refering to Vanilla Ice's neck that is just a slighty darker area of red feathers.


----------



## jpsnapdy

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Naw....she is just a lot more self conscious then I am. She worries that maybe a hair could be out of place or something....where as I am very comfortable having my image recorded for future generations !  I think it was when I told her that perhaps as many as 1,000,000 people from around the world may see her image that she began to get a bit nervous.


Yep, you're right! I did! But there's really no reason to get nervous 'bout it.
Ask Karen if she "knew" or felt it at the time I watched the video, it must have been 2 in the morning for you in the US.
Nice trophy! Thanx to Conditionfreak.


----------



## jpsnapdy

Hi Tom (flapdoodle),
I was just wondering, since this thread is already 17 pages long, if it would be OK with you to open a new thread once the PT 2011 birds reach your loft to make browsing easier through it all? Just a thought.


----------



## Big T

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> For the record....it really is not a "White" pigeon....you can't really tell from the video, as it was too dark inside, and too cold outside, but it was a very lite silver, (ok red bar) but the bars are nearly invisible.
> 
> I also tried "educating" Karen on how to hold a pigeon....forget about it....in her defense, there were four cats in the room, including a 25 pound Tom Cat, named Ole Sammy, I rescued as a baby from under the pigeon loft. She felt it better to hold the bird close and be safe. But, I am looking into this new theory of picking "pretty ones" and hugging them a couple times a day ! I understand it works on wives as well !!!
> 
> I got a kick out of the longest tail theory....problem with those things when they win, you can't really argue with sucess. Cause to be honest, this is not the first time she picked a winner. Had I listened to her, I would have sent a couple other "pretty" ones (sisters to this Vanilla Ice) to the Winners Cup and Flamingo, and from the race results they had on the club level, I think I would have done better then my selections that I sent, so maybe there is something to it. Problem is, if she gets too good at picking winners, I don't know if my fragile ego could withstand it !
> 
> As far as the Smith's go...there is a good reason why there are so many of us. You see females are attracted to the winners. And when the females discover the Smith's, well you end up with a lot of little Smith's and the process starts all over again.
> 
> Fortunately, you can increase your odds of winning, and you don't have to change your name, you can simply acquire some of those Smith pigeons and then you to can enjoy this wonderful sport of ours. Just make sure you have a pretty wife helping you pick your race entires !
> 
> I did the best I could to help you win the next one Conditonfreak, I stepped back from this next event to give you a sporting or at least a fighting chance ! Now ya know humility is not my strong suit.....if I was to enter again and have my wife pick yet another winner, why I don't think either of us could effectively deal with it. It might just cause us to quit pigeons or something !


OK, your wife picked the pretty ones to win. But then we see her husband???? My guess is you don't race? And like protecting the bird from the cats, she feels the need to protect you from yourself???? And might I add, you have a very light colored bird for one who doen't like whites.

LOL Great Video and you won bragging rights so brag a little,
Tony


----------



## TAWhatley

Great stuff guys and gals! I thoroughly enjoyed the videos! Best of luck to all who are participating in the 2011 Pigeon-Talk Classic.

Terry


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

conditionfreak said:


> Not to derail this thread in a completely different direction. But one of my favorite songs is "Ice Ice Baby" by Vanilla Ice. You should hear me "sing it" (not sure it is actually singing though).
> 
> "Rollin in my 5.0"
> 
> (yea, I like rap music. So sue me)


Hahahaha...this made me LOL!

" with the rag top down so my hair can blow"


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

Big T said:


> OK, your wife picked the pretty ones to win.* But then we see her husband????* My guess is you don't race? And like protecting the bird from the cats, she feels the need to protect you from yourself???? And might I add, you have a very light colored bird for one who doen't like whites.
> 
> LOL Great Video and you won bragging rights so brag a little,
> Tony


What are you talking about ? My wife says that she got the pick of the litter !

And it seems to me, we have gone down this road before, and most disinterested parties agree, that I was a good looking kid !! 

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=483314&postcount=53

Folks can go to this post and judge for themselves ! 

As far as bragging goes, I told you once, I'll tell you again a thousand times, I'm the best there ever was, you ole son of a gun !!


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

Big T said:


> ......LOL Great Video and you won bragging rights so brag a little,
> Tony



Here you go Tony...you can fast forward past your white fantails that got lost and go directly to #17 and see what a race winner looks like. It was right there the whole time, as plain as the nose on your face, as to which bird had all the right stuff. As soon as I saw this video I knew that #17 was the winner, but I also knew everyone would not take my word for it. So, here ya go BIG Tony, study hard and maybe you can do a little better next year ! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDixAPfKhc4

(4 minutes and 5 seconds into the video, just slide the bar and move right to the winner #17)


----------



## Flapdoodle

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> I would thank my wife for helping me become famous once again. I also would like to thank ConditionFreak for donating the trophy. And of course I would like to thank Flapdoodle for holding this event, and making this all possible.
> 
> The winning bird "Vanilla Ice" was awarded to Allen Smith of Quiet Time Loft. Allen was one of the participants in our 2007 National Testing Program, and he had exceeded all of our expectations in terms of reporting. We are confident that Vanilla Ice will make a fine addition to the current stock of SFL birds already at Quiet Time Loft.
> 
> This first You Tube Clip shows *Karen Smith with Vanilla Ice and her Trophy !*
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vn_fBcW0_EM
> 
> 
> This You Tube clip shows Vanilla Ice with her new owner !
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGyMsv6qZY8


Thanks for posting Warren, great videos!! 

Congrats to Allen on your new bird. I am sure she will do well for you. 

*Now we all know where we can find a pair of young birds if come the middle of April we don't have any SFL banded birds to DEFEND the title!!!! *

Warren have you decided it is enough fun and worth putting up with substandard handling and all the BS to let Karen pick a couple for next year


----------



## A_Smith

Flapdoodle said:


> *Now we all know where we can find a pair of young birds if come the middle of April we don't have any SFL banded birds to DEFEND the title!!!! *


 If my breeding season goes well I will have many birds with the SFL bloodline, BUT none with 2011 SFL bands. (unless Warren sends me the bands.)


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Didn't Warren win the Flamingo two years in a row. Must be the PT competition that is scaring him away. Maybe he can't win this one twice. I bet Karen would have a good chance though. She could send a bird called "Vanilla Twice".


----------



## A_Smith

hillfamilyloft said:


> Didn't Warren win the Flamingo two years in a row. Must be the PT competition that is scaring him away. Maybe he can't win this one twice. I bet Karen would have a good chance though. She could send a bird called "Vanilla Twice".




Vanilla Twice  LOL


----------



## MaryOfExeter

...In which if Vanilla Twice wins, I think I should get her since Warren doesn't like white birds  LOL


----------



## conditionfreak

"She could send a bird called "Vanilla Twice".

Now THAT is funny.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

A_Smith said:


> Vanilla Twice  LOL


Be nice to send one off "Vanilla Ice". We could call it "Vanilla Splice".


----------



## jpsnapdy

conditionfreak said:


> "She could send a bird called "Vanilla Twice".
> 
> Now THAT is funny.


Yeah! Very good, indeed!


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

A_Smith said:


> If my breeding season goes well I will have many birds with the SFL bloodline, BUT none with 2011 SFL bands. (unless Warren sends me the bands.)


Well now, if you should produce a super duper son or daughter from Vanilla Ice which turns out to be a race winner, what would a fitting name be for such a racer with such a majestic heritage ?


----------



## conditionfreak

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Well now, if you should produce a super duper son or daughter from Vanilla Ice which turns out to be a race winner, what would a fitting name be for such a racer with such a majestic heritage ?



Well....since Vanilla Twice and Vanilla Splice have already been posted. I would go with "Lucky Ducky" (get the hint?).

Ha Ha Ha.

Seriously, how about "AfterSmith Delight"?


----------



## rackerman

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> I would thank my wife for helping me become famous once again. I also would like to thank ConditionFreak for donating the trophy. And of course I would like to thank Flapdoodle for holding this event, and making this all possible.
> 
> The winning bird "Vanilla Ice" was awarded to Allen Smith of Quiet Time Loft. Allen was one of the participants in our 2007 National Testing Program, and he had exceeded all of our expectations in terms of reporting. We are confident that Vanilla Ice will make a fine addition to the current stock of SFL birds already at Quiet Time Loft.
> 
> This first You Tube Clip shows *Karen Smith with Vanilla Ice and her Trophy !*
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vn_fBcW0_EM
> 
> 
> This You Tube clip shows Vanilla Ice with her new owner !
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGyMsv6qZY8


I hope this is not a stupid question but, what is SFL birds and SFL bands..


----------



## blongboy

rackerman said:


> I hope this is not a stupid question but, what is SFL birds and SFL bands..


i think it mean smith family loft...atleast that what i been going by


----------



## rackerman

blongboy said:


> i think it mean smith family loft...atleast that what i been going by


OK, THAT MAKES SENSE. WHY ARE THE BANDS SO EXPENSIVE?


----------



## blongboy

rackerman said:


> OK, THAT MAKES SENSE. WHY ARE THE BANDS SO EXPENSIVE?


i have not clue about them..


----------



## Gnuretiree

I think they always come attached to a pigeon. LOL

Hugh


----------



## MaryOfExeter

I'm not entirely sure which bands you're talking about, BUT SFL bands are expensive because they are custom bands. I think they cost more than normal bands AND the min order is 100. You can get them to say whatever you want.

If you're talking about money race bands, they are expensive so the club can earn money and the winners can get cash prizes.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Well now, if you should produce a super duper son or daughter from Vanilla Ice which turns out to be a race winner, what would a fitting name be for such a racer with such a majestic heritage ?


Vanila Splice has already been suggested. Vanilla Spice, Vanilla Swirl. Anything yummy sounding, LOL. Guess it depends on what this son or daughter looks like


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

rackerman said:


> OK, THAT MAKES SENSE. WHY ARE THE BANDS SO EXPENSIVE?


 It's not that the bands are so expensive, it's the pigeon that is wearing them. If you find a pigeon with SFL USA on it's band, they can only come from one place in the world ! The Master pigeon guy himself, and he is very hard to do business with !! I saw a video once where he was taking his birds on a road trip and they were riding in one of those stretch limousines.


----------



## bbcdon

I saw that too. The chaffeur released the birds, while Mr & Mrs Smith sat in the limo drinking champagne. I was quite impressed, and what a lifestyle!


----------



## Big T

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> It's not that the bands are so expensive, it's the pigeon that is wearing them. If you find a pigeon with SFL USA on it's band, they can only come from one place in the world ! The Master pigeon guy himself, and he is very hard to do business with !! I saw a video once where he was taking his birds on a road trip and they were riding in one of those stretch limousines.


Now that is bragging!!!!! And you earned the right!!! Now, how about next year??? You need to have your wife pick another winner. I have the right bands this time.

Tony


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

Big T said:


> Now that is bragging!!!!! And you earned the right!!! Now, how about next year??? You need to have your wife pick another winner. I have the right bands this time.
> 
> Tony


Now Mister *BIG T *that is funny.....and I don't care who you are !!! You should just stick to those chickafied show things...where you can display your "pretty' little while release doves, and just let this racing business to the professionals !


----------



## Timber

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Now Mister *BIG T *that is funny.....and I don't care who you are !!! You should just stick to those chickafied show things...where you can display your "pretty' little while release doves, and just let this racing business to the professionals !


Hey Warren,

If your wife is interested and she can breed an all white, try sending them down to my race as well (2011 White Dove Release Classic). Im sure $2000 for 1st could be tempting......

I wonder.......LOL


----------



## kbraden

Well, I'm in this year... assuming hubby doesn't break his other leg this time & birds don't break their eggs either!


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

Flap Daddy Tom - Will the lottery results be posted on the 25th still? Let's get an update...


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Being as Warren's white bird did so good this year at the PT classic, I think I will send my whitest 1st round bird out there. Hopefully Buzz will raise me a little splash bird. Need something to blend in with the flock of show and wedding birds everyone is sending.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Tell Karen is she is not sending a bird this year that I am not sending my best. I will instead try and win the show. Have a better chance in the show this year without the Vanilla birds. I bet you do not have anymore pretty ones at the SFL loft.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Why do people think white birds are the prettiest? I know solid whites are beautiful, but I think they are overrated  Splashes are probably prettier to me. Or grizzles! I will have a ton of grizzles. Maybe I could steal the show with them  I have so many birds that I want to test out. Winning is fun but I really want to see if they can handle it out there. But we can only send two so I'll probably just send what I consider my best.


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

I have to find out if I can even send birds since we went over the 50 mark!


----------



## rackerman

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> I have to find out if I can even send birds since we went over the 50 mark!


Me too..........


----------



## A_Smith

rackerman said:


> Me too.......... Originally Posted by g0ldenb0y55
> I have to find out if I can even send birds since we went over the 50 mark!


I just signed up and my name went onto the list of entries page. So the signup must still be open. Now maybe I'll get lucky with the lottery.


----------



## rackerman

A_Smith said:


> I just signed up and my name went onto the list of entries page. So the signup must still be open. Now maybe I'll get lucky with the lottery.


Is the lottery for the one's after 50?


----------



## A_Smith

rackerman said:


> Is the lottery for the one's after 50?


YES Winners will be posted on 12-25-10


----------



## mtripOH

rackerman said:


> Is the lottery for the one's after 50?


I may not be reading the rules right..but according to the rules the lottery will be held if more than 5000 birds are signed up. Anything under 5000 will be accepted for the race. I think this is flaps way of making sure all of us are included  What a guy!


----------



## Timber

mtripOH said:


> I may not be reading the rules right..but according to the rules the lottery will be held if more than 5000 birds are signed up. Anything under 5000 will be accepted for the race. I think this is flaps way of making sure all of us are included  What a guy!


Thats exactly what I was thinking as well! So by the looks of things, everyone who signed up is in.....


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

The race is only up to 50 breeders. The only entries that have a reserved spot are the members that participated last year highlighted in yellow. Everyone else will be put into the lottery until the 50 spots are filled. Once filled the lottery will continue until the last name is pulled. Everyone after 50 will be put in a reserve pool in the same order going from 51 to whatever.....and if someone defaults from the first 50 the next guy in line would be lottery pick 51 and so forth.... I hope this makes sense....please correct me if I'm wrong.....


----------



## Crazy Pete

Flapdoodle said:


> I agree with conditionfreak life happens. If we get 55 or so sign up I am sure some will not be able to send birds, that is fine.
> 
> I am going to move that loft I posted about. It has five sections and we will have room for all that want to participate so won't need to do a lottery (provided we only have a few more sign up).
> 
> As far as securing a spot that won’t need to happen. Just send the money with the birds is fine.


Should be know lottery.
Dave


----------



## bloodlines_365

mtripOH said:


> I may not be reading the rules right..but according to the rules the lottery will be held if more than 5000 birds are signed up. Anything under 5000 will be accepted for the race. I think this is flaps way of making sure all of us are included  What a guy!


5000 birds!!!! are you sure coz that's alot of birds!!! I think his too busy building the loft rigth now plus it's been raining here in Cali.. For four days in a row day and nigth....


----------



## Crazy Pete

I did put 5,000 two bird teams. I just wanted to see if everyone was paying attention. I don't want to tell 5 or 6 sorry you can't send birds. Providing we don't get many more sign up everyone is in, I am going to keep the reg up until Dec 18th. I am sure we will have a few people sign up not able to send birds. If all end up sending birds great I will have the room. The issue will be shipping. There is plenty of room on the truck for all the birds. The race limit is 20 birds in each race, 40 each week. We could have some really great homing pigeons that are sent each week as trainers but never trap in enough time to make the next weeks race team. Not a perfect system but it will work. 

Read the posts
Dave


----------



## lmorales4

I thought Flapdoodle was going to be the one holding the race? Has that changed? When will the rules and directions be posted for sending birds and paying the money?


----------



## bloodlines_365

Crazy Pete said:


> I did put 5,000 two bird teams. I just wanted to see if everyone was paying attention. I don't want to tell 5 or 6 sorry you can't send birds. Providing we don't get many more sign up everyone is in, I am going to keep the reg up until Dec 18th. I am sure we will have a few people sign up not able to send birds. If all end up sending birds great I will have the room. The issue will be shipping. There is plenty of room on the truck for all the birds. The race limit is 20 birds in each race, 40 each week. We could have some really great homing pigeons that are sent each week as trainers but never trap in enough time to make the next weeks race team. Not a perfect system but it will work.
> 
> Read the posts
> Dave


K.... He did put 5000 my mistake!!


----------



## Crazy Pete

Flapdoodle said:


> Dear Shirley,
> 
> I did put 5,000 two bird teams. I just wanted to see if everyone was paying attention. I don't want to tell 5 or 6 sorry you can't send birds. Providing we don't get many more sign up everyone is in, I am going to keep the reg up until Dec 18th. I am sure we will have a few people sign up not able to send birds. If all end up sending birds great I will have the room. The issue will be shipping. There is plenty of room on the truck for all the birds. The race limit is 20 birds in each race, 40 each week. We could have some really great homing pigeons that are sent each week as trainers but never trap in enough time to make the next weeks race team. Not a perfect system but it will work.
> 
> I hope you all have a great Thanksgiving.


 Flapdoodle is doing the race I just found the post.
Dave


----------



## rackerman

Where is the address to send the birds?


----------



## rackerman

rackerman said:


> Where is the address to send the birds?


Does anyone know the address? I don't know why it is not in the rules or did I not see it?


----------



## blongboy

rackerman said:


> Does anyone know the address? I don't know why it is not in the rules or did I not see it?


he'll post later i'm sure


----------



## rackerman

blongboy said:


> he'll post later i'm sure


Thats cool, so he has not post it. I just thought it would have posted in the rules and never saw it. Thanks blongboy.....


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

Does anyone know if the lottery was held?


----------



## Crazy Pete

With work, family, and moving the loft I haven't seen a post fron flap for awhile. Hope every thing is going well with him.
Dave


----------



## rackerman

Crazy Pete said:


> With work, family, and moving the loft I haven't seen a post fron flap for awhile. Hope every thing is going well with him.
> Dave


*I also hope he is ok! The sign up page is still there and nothing new from him. The lottery results he said he'd post on Christmas day and there not posted?? I have even PM'd him and have heard nothing. I hope is ok!!! Has anyone heard from him?*


----------



## blongboy

rackerman said:


> *I also hope he is ok! The sign up page is still there and nothing new from him. The lottery results he said he'd post on Christmas day and there not posted?? I have even PM'd him and have heard nothing. I hope is ok!!! Has anyone heard from him?*


i think he is fine ..he might have his hand full alt the moment ...cause that a big loft he is moving


----------



## rackerman

blongboy said:


> i think he is fine ..he might have his hand full alt the moment ...cause that a big loft he is moving


I sure hope thats all it is and the Holidays!


----------



## rackerman

*Anyone heard from Tom?*


----------



## Big T

Relax until after the holidays, If he is like me, the wife has him busy. Got to go here she comes now.

T


----------



## rackerman

Big T said:


> Relax until after the holidays, If he is like me, the wife has him busy. Got to go here she comes now.
> 
> T


LOL........OK TONY.........


----------



## rono842

hello
i would like to get a spot, iam one of those guys that doesnot have a bird yet and would like to participate in the 2011 pigion talk classic. thanks


----------



## blongboy

yea i cant wait ti see who is in or out... cause if i'm in i have to plain!!


----------



## rackerman

rono842 said:


> hello
> i would like to get a spot, iam one of those guys that doesnot have a bird yet and would like to participate in the 2011 pigion talk classic. thanks


Go to the 1st page and click entry form.


----------



## blongboy

the wait is killing me!!


----------



## kbraden

Don't worry about Flapdoodle. I live about 2 hrs from him & we have been getting a weird few weeks of cold stormy weather, snow & more snow, plus zero temps. Between that and him moving a loft, he's sure to be preoccupied for a bit.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

kbraden said:


> Don't worry about Flapdoodle. I live about 2 hrs from him & we have been getting a weird few weeks of cold stormy weather, snow & more snow, plus zero temps. Between that and him moving a loft, he's sure to be preoccupied for a bit.


He also had to play Santa.


----------



## conditionfreak

Snow in California and Nevada? It's Al Gore's fault. He should have left well enough alone.

If it ain't broke. Don't fix it, Al.


----------



## Big T

blongboy said:


> the wait is killing me!!


Waiting!!!! I think not, you should be breeding, and raising. Time is running out.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

I don't think he wants birds in January. You gun jumpers are going to have to send second rounders.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

He wants the birds end of March First of April, That means you want birds on eggs by first to middle of February if my calculations are right. Isn't this when Warren is putting his birds together? For some of you this might be third rounders. 
If I put mine together Jan 22 (Using natural light) Usually takes about 2-3 weeks for eggs
Eggs say Feb 12th at latest
Hatch March 2nd
Send say the 30th at 28 days
This should work perfectly. 
This should put your Thanksgiving birds on their third round if they are laying in the next week.


----------



## kbraden

conditionfreak said:


> Snow in California and Nevada? It's Al Gore's fault. He should have left well enough alone.
> 
> If it ain't broke. Don't fix it, Al.


I don't know what his snow level has been like but we are in the valley at 4500' and got 4" in 2 hrs on Wed., and another 4" in a few hrs again on Thurs. Saturday we got a quick 2", and they say same again for today. I think he is at 7500'. One of the ski resorts between us got another 11" yesterday. I know this isn't much compared to back east, but for us... it's a lot


----------



## ace in the hole

kbraden said:


> I don't know what his snow level has been like but we are in the valley at 4500' and got 4" in 2 hrs on Wed., and another 4" in a few hrs again on Thurs. Saturday we got a quick 2", and they say same again for today. I think he is at 7500'. One of the ski resorts between us got another 11" yesterday. I know this isn't much compared to back east, but for us... it's a lot


If I remember right, that is why I moved to Florida. Our lows for this week will be around 60 and the day time highs mid to upper 70s.

I just put my breeders together last week. Should have my first eggs by next weekend.


----------



## kbraden

ace in the hole said:


> If I remember right, that is why I moved to Florida. Our lows for this week will be around 60 and the day time highs mid to upper 70s.
> 
> I just put my breeders together last week. Should have my first eggs by next weekend.


I got up this morning to 12* outside, heatwave compared to yesterdays 7* Highs might reach 29* today, so they say  
My breeders are die hards, they are on eggs as we speak.(not for this race tho)


----------



## mtripOH

*Band question*

Just a quick question about bands for this race. Can we use AU bands purchased through Foys? We band with NPA bands and have no club affiliation hence the need for going through Foys.


----------



## conditionfreak

Yes. Bands from Foys are perfectly fine for any AU sanctioned race. Also perfectly fine for the PT Classic event. The are as good as any other AU band.

Good luck.


----------



## rackerman

hillfamilyloft said:


> He wants the birds end of March First of April, That means you want birds on eggs by first to middle of February if my calculations are right. Isn't this when Warren is putting his birds together? For some of you this might be third rounders.
> If I put mine together Jan 22 (Using natural light) Usually takes about 2-3 weeks for eggs
> Eggs say Feb 12th at latest
> Hatch March 2nd
> Send say the 30th at 28 days
> This should work perfectly.
> This should put your Thanksgiving birds on their third round if they are laying in the next week.


I sure hope my birds can lay by then, it's the coldest month here in Northeast lower Michigan. I will be bummed if they don't lay eggs. 
I think I have some real good birds and this is the best way for me to see just how good they are!! Most of my birds come from a racing Pigeon club here in Michigan.


----------



## Big T

hillfamilyloft said:


> I don't think he wants birds in January. You gun jumpers are going to have to send second rounders.


I'm trying to keep blondboy busy, you know, like the Dad boiling water when the baby is coming, sending a young sailor for relative bearing grease, or a young mechanic for turn signal fluid. 

Helps with the waiting,
Tony


----------



## JaxRacingLofts

Big T said:


> I'm trying to keep blondboy busy, you know, like the Dad boiling water when the baby is coming, sending a young sailor for relative bearing grease, or a young mechanic for turn signal fluid.
> 
> Helps with the waiting,
> Tony


Now thats funny..lol


----------



## conditionfreak

When I was a young boy, my uncles took me "snipe hunting". I fell for that one.

Then when I was a young man (boy really), in the Marines. My Sergeant sent me to the supply office to pick up some "sky hooks". I fell for that one also.

When I had a young son of my own, I ask him to go to the store to get us three "hen weighs". He asked "What's a hen weigh"?

I told him "about three pounds". He responded "Okay, but what are they"?

I didn't feel so bad about about my younger years then.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

LOL  It isn't nice when people you trust, trick you like that. But at least then you can say it wasn't because you were stupid, it was because you trusted they wouldn't lie to you


----------



## JaxRacingLofts

conditionfreak said:


> When I was a young boy, my uncles took me "snipe hunting". I fell for that one.
> 
> Then when I was a young man (boy really), in the Marines. My Sergeant sent me to the supply office to pick up some "sky hooks". I fell for that one also.
> 
> When I had a young son of my own, I ask him to go to the store to get us three "hen weighs". He asked "What's a hen weigh"?
> 
> I told him "about three pounds". He responded "Okay, but what are they"?
> 
> I didn't feel so bad about about my younger years then.



We used to send the rent a drunks to find the board stretcher.


----------



## conditionfreak

"We used to send the rent a drunks to find the board stretcher."

Ha Ha. I think?


----------



## Flapdoodle

OK, so I took some time off, to be honest it was great to not be looking at a computer. I hope that some have been offended and we won't get all 66 breeders send in birds (but if we do get 132 birds great) 



g0ldenb0y55 said:


> Flap Daddy Tom - Will the lottery results be posted on the 25th still? Let's get an update...


No lottery, I just pulled the plug on the sign up sheet. 66 folks signed up... all those on the list can send two birds



mtripOH said:


> I may not be reading the rules right..but according to the rules the lottery will be held if more than 5000 birds are signed up. Anything under 5000 will be accepted for the race. I think this is flaps way of making sure all of us are included  What a guy!


I am glad that least one of you picked up on my intentions with the 5,000 birds... 



rackerman said:


> Where is the address to send the birds?


No money until I get a loft done (just send money with the birds)
I will get my address emailed prior to our middle of March date...



kbraden said:


> I don't know what his snow level has been like but we are in the valley at 4500' and got 4" in 2 hrs on Wed., and another 4" in a few hrs again on Thurs. Saturday we got a quick 2", and they say same again for today. I think he is at 7500'. One of the ski resorts between us got another 11" yesterday. I know this isn't much compared to back east, but for us... it's a lot


I am out of the mountains at the base of the foothills so no snow for me. Just tons of rain... over the holidays the days I could leave work were the days it would rain, go figure. 



mtripOH said:


> Just a quick question about bands for this race. Can we use AU bands purchased through Foys? We band with NPA bands and have no club affiliation hence the need for going through Foys.


I did pick up 100 AU bands, I need a 1/2 a dozen or so for my one pair. (I did get the second egg laid Christmas day). For those that have signed up for the race I would be more then happy to mail some bands out if you don't already have some. They cost me like 20 cents a band... whatever postage ends up costing you can send with your birds... Hope all is well with everyone...


----------



## conditionfreak

How in the heck did you get 2011 bands for like 20 cents each? Foys charged me .55 and my club charged me .60 (was .75 last year and I complained and low and behold, this year they were 60). Coincidence?


----------



## Pigeon0446

conditionfreak said:


> How in the heck did you get 2011 bands for like 20 cents each? Foys charged me .55 and my club charged me .60 (was .75 last year and I complained and low and behold, this year they were 60). Coincidence?


The club I'm president of charge $25 for a 100 bands and the club I just joined on Sunday only charges $20 for a 100 bands. I think it has to do with the amount of bands being bought by the clubs. They cost the club more if you only buy a small number. But Foys is just ripping ppl of since they are buying a bunch more then my clubs they must be getting them as cheap if not cheaper then the two clubs I'm in. And my clubs are making a profit so Foys has to be tripling thier money on those bands.


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

Thanks for the update Tom! Glad to hear you weren't abducted by aliens out there! 

Let's get the show on the road!


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Our bands were 20 cents each, but now I think they are like 28 cents, so that the club can make some profit.


----------



## blongboy

yea! ... this one loft race is going to be good if every one send their best!


----------



## hillfamilyloft

MaryOfExeter said:


> Our bands were 20 cents each, but now I think they are like 28 cents, so that the club can make some profit.


The bands did go up in price through the AU.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

What birds to send is a crap shoot. Your best pair might skip a year and produce duds. Your new breeders might hit. Hard choice because I want to win all the club races also. Maybe a few small races around the country. I am betting off the first egg out of two new breeding hens. Heck Warren won last year with pretty birds. Maybe I will just pick an ugly one.


----------



## Big T

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> Thanks for the update Tom! Glad to hear you weren't abducted by aliens out there!
> 
> Let's get the show on the road!


See, I knew keeping Ya'll busy boiling water for your breeding hens would give Tom time to come back. 

I knew better,
Tony


----------



## MaryOfExeter

hillfamilyloft said:


> The bands did go up in price through the AU.


Ours are IF though  I'm pretty sure they haven't changed much, if any at all. Sold to clubs at 20 cents, sold to other fanciers at 35 sents. Then how much you pay for them in your club depends on whether you want to make money or not. We have a clubhouse to keep up, so I guess the few cents of profit helps


----------



## bloodlines_365

Okay, in speaking of bands..... I need bands really bad I would like to buy 50 or 60 pieces of bands from any clubs, I will cover the shipping cost and envelope..


----------



## Timber

MaryOfExeter said:


> Ours are IF though  I'm pretty sure they haven't changed much, if any at all. Sold to clubs at 20 cents, sold to other fanciers at 35 sents. Then how much you pay for them in your club depends on whether you want to make money or not. We have a clubhouse to keep up, so I guess the few cents of profit helps


You all got lucky!  My club charged us .50 ea for club bands this year!


----------



## raftree3

We paid .60


----------



## Big T

I paid .45 from Foy's but I order last year in late Nov for 2011 Bands. They are now .55.

Tony


----------



## blongboy

does everyone know ...which young they are sending ... ???
any picture of the pair the young might be coming from?

if i time it right my second round should be prefect to send ..and they are BLACK!


----------



## hillfamilyloft

You hear that Warren we will have ebony next year, what about the ivory?


----------



## Big T

hillfamilyloft said:


> You hear that Warren we will have ebony next year, what about the ivory?


I'll send Ivory, with proper bands this year.

Tony


----------



## Timber

If things go as planned, Ill be sending one youngster from these pairs.

Pair 1:
BB/C-CANADA ONE placed 9th Club 93M, 5th Club 124M, 9th Club 248M, 1st Club - 25th Comb. 295M, 9th Club 170M, 8th Club 295M, 5th Club 170M, 3rd Club 295M and 9th Club 295M. He was raced for six years before being stocked in 2008. Import from Canada

WGRZ/H-KAYLA placed 3rd Club/Comb. 181M, 8th Club - 7th Comb. 135M, 8th Club 306M, YB's (Unirate of 4.623% - AU Natl. Database) She then placed 5th Club - 6th Comb. - 17th FLA Fed vs. 1,378B 217M, 2nd Club/Comb & FLA Fed vs. 960B 217M, '09 Yearlings.

Will most likely be a WGRZ as this pair produce a WGRZ and BB last year for me.

Pair 2:
BB/C-WONDER CAT placed 1st Club 181M, 2nd Club 116M, 4th Club 306M, 4th Club 306M & 2nd Place Bird of the Year as a YB. 

BB/H -OCALA'S WONDER placed 8th Club - 15th Comb. 136M, 7th Club - 11th Comb. 136M, 11th Club 136M, 11th Club 217M, 4th Club/Comb. 217M, 5th Club 181M, 16th Club 181M, 4th Club - 19th Comb. 306M, 1st Club -19th Comb. 181M, YB's. (Unirate of 4.713% - AU Natl. Database) 

Will be a BB. Both parents are Vic Miller/Wonderboy Blood.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

I'll probably be sending a sibling to one of the ones I sent last year. I may send a half sibling of the other, as the dad got killed.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Timber said:


> If things go as planned, Ill be sending one youngster from these pairs.
> 
> Pair 1:
> BB/C-CANADA ONE placed 9th Club 93M, 5th Club 124M, 9th Club 248M, 1st Club - 25th Comb. 295M, 9th Club 170M, 8th Club 295M, 5th Club 170M, 3rd Club 295M and 9th Club 295M. He was raced for six years before being stocked in 2008. Import from Canada
> 
> WGRZ/H-KAYLA placed 3rd Club/Comb. 181M, 8th Club - 7th Comb. 135M, 8th Club 306M, YB's (Unirate of 4.623% - AU Natl. Database) She then placed 5th Club - 6th Comb. - 17th FLA Fed vs. 1,378B 217M, 2nd Club/Comb & FLA Fed vs. 960B 217M, '09 Yearlings.
> 
> Will most likely be a WGRZ as this pair produce a WGRZ and BB last year for me.
> 
> Pair 2:
> BB/C-WONDER CAT placed 1st Club 181M, 2nd Club 116M, 4th Club 306M, 4th Club 306M & 2nd Place Bird of the Year as a YB.
> 
> BB/H -OCALA'S WONDER placed 8th Club - 15th Comb. 136M, 7th Club - 11th Comb. 136M, 11th Club 136M, 11th Club 217M, 4th Club/Comb. 217M, 5th Club 181M, 16th Club 181M, 4th Club - 19th Comb. 306M, 1st Club -19th Comb. 181M, YB's. (Unirate of 4.713% - AU Natl. Database)
> 
> Will be a BB. Both parents are Vic Miller/Wonderboy Blood.


What birds are your Vic Millers down from? Have a bunch of the blood in my loft. Sounds like you are bringing out the big guns.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Big T said:


> I'll send Ivory, with proper bands this year.
> 
> Tony


I'm not going to stand a chance with all this color for the beauty pageant this year.


----------



## Timber

hillfamilyloft said:


> What birds are your Vic Millers down from? Have a bunch of the blood in my loft. Sounds like you are bringing out the big guns.


You and I have some of the same blood. You may not remember but we have spoken before over a pair of birds I bought from Ace In the Hole. 

WONDER CAT is a GSon of WONDERBOY (OHF-5016) & VICTORIA (IHC-2451), Sire Side and his Dam was a Multiple Diploma Winner herself and is a Ganus/Devrient Cross.

OCALA'S WONDER is a GDaughter of WONDERBOY & VICTORIA. So she is actually a Cousin of WONDER CAT as their Sires are Full Brothers. 

To be honest, I figured you would send in one of your Vic Miller/Wonder birds as well, if so it should make for good competition. Being related families and all.....


----------



## hillfamilyloft

I have two full Vic Miller birds, the rest are crosses. Chances are that the blood will be represented. After 5 years of breeding the birds, the Vic Miller birds still represent in the loft. I thought you had some birds from Mark. The Miller birds are still a viable family of birds. Seems like guys get away from buying birds from established families for the one hit wonder birds. Must be the ipod/Ganus mentality of a bunch of different songs. What ever happened to the good old vinyl. I am one of the few I know trying to develop a strong family or families of like lineage birds. Most people I see buy this and that and throw it all together and hope for something. Always chasing whats on the cover of the digest instead of developing a family around say a pair of good breeders. When I decide what I am sending I will let you know what it is off of.


----------



## Timber

hillfamilyloft said:


> I have two full Vic Miller birds, the rest are crosses. Chances are that the blood will be represented. After 5 years of breeding the birds, the Vic Miller birds still represent in the loft. I thought you had some birds from Mark. The Miller birds are still a viable family of birds. Seems like guys get away from buying birds from established families for the one hit wonder birds. Must be the ipod/Ganus mentality of a bunch of different songs. What ever happened to the good old vinyl. I am one of the few I know trying to develop a strong family or families of like lineage birds. Most people I see buy this and that and throw it all together and hope for something. Always chasing whats on the cover of the digest instead of developing a family around say a pair of good breeders. When I decide what I am sending I will let you know what it is off of.


I agree....Thanks!


----------



## hillfamilyloft

I am working on getting pedigrees up. Right now my webpage is messed. But under breeding families you can look at the pedigree of Ed under the picture. He is my full vic miller bird. He is responsible for a good percentage of what is in my breeding loft. Mills loft sent me the pedigree for Wonder Van Bergen and De Soest. Interesting to read. Most know of the Verbart 46 but do not know that Wonder Van Bergen is off the bird. Vic Miller was also good about bringing in crosses of quality to his family. In Eds ped you will see a few Jos Thone's bird. Impossible was the sire of Jos' Eva that was always paired with Sumo. Many of his peds are 3/4 - 1/4 his blood to others.


----------



## conditionfreak

I won't be posting my pairings until I actually send them to Flapdoodle.

Best laid plans of mice and men, you know.


----------



## PigeonVilla

lol I think it really doesnt matter what you are breeding for this race ,its the results that will count in the long run  send your best and the basket,hawks ,plus the club race record will tell you whos who in the end  cant wait to see how it progresses . good luck to all that enter ,flap is the real winner in the end for taking on such a great and adventurous task


----------



## RodSD

This would become a very interesting race. Bring it guys/gals!


----------



## Xueoo

Mine will be from a '10 pair. Both have never been raced or tossed at any distance, including haven't been flown outside the loft...ever. The offsprings being sent to the race will be six generations removed from a race. Van Loon with a touch of Janssen, as are most of what I keep. 

The hen:









The cock:


----------



## conditionfreak

Well, if that is not a joke, it should help answer some old questions about pedigrees and proving abilities.

hmmm....


----------



## bloodlines_365

I wouldn't brag about my PETSTORE janseen, that produce consistent clocking birds last year, somehow this pair produce better birds than with my pedigree birds...


----------



## blongboy

bloodlines_365 said:


> I wouldn't brag about my PETSTORE janseen, that produce consistent clocking birds last year, somehow this pair produce better birds than with my pedigree birds...


when you say pet store ....are there pet store out there that sell pigeon? omg i would love to see that....any name of the store?


----------



## kbraden

blongboy said:


> when you say pet store ....are there pet store out there that sell pigeon? omg i would love to see that....any name of the store?


PETSTORE is the name of a breeder/ loft


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Xueoo said:


> Mine will be from a '10 pair. Both have never been raced or tossed at any distance, including haven't been flown outside the loft...ever. The offsprings being sent to the race will be six generations removed from a race. Van Loon with a touch of Janssen, as are most of what I keep.
> 
> The hen:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The cock:


As good as you did last year, I think this might just be the selection method to follow. Maybe I should put my money where my mouth is. This year I feel that any pair in the loft could produce a good bird. Just randomly select two and go with it.


----------



## bloodlines_365

kbraden said:


> PETSTORE is the name of a breeder/ loft


I called them petstore janseen cause I bougth the pair from the pet store where i buy the bird food... Yes! there you can find any types of birds from rollers to highfleirs, Import old racers,jacobins, etc., and ofcourse it depends on the availibity...


----------



## rackerman

bloodlines_365 said:


> I called them petstore janseen cause I bougth the pair from the pet store where i buy the bird food... Yes! there you can find any types of birds from rollers to highfleirs, Import old racers,jacobins, etc., and ofcourse it depends on the availibity...


Where is this Pet/Store loft located?


----------



## blongboy

bloodlines_365 said:


> I called them petstore janseen cause I bougth the pair from the pet store where i buy the bird food... Yes! there you can find any types of birds from rollers to highfleirs, Import old racers,jacobins, etc., and ofcourse it depends on the availibity...


wow i want to see that


----------



## Pigeon0446

We have a few pet shops that sell pigeons here on Long Island. One of them has an auction each weekend where you can find all kinds of odd ball breeds. You won't find too many flyers buying homers in there but once in a while I'll get a bird if it stands out to me for some reason or another. But if your a new guy starting off for 5 or 10 bucks you can get a bird that sombody else culled but that doesn't mean that those birds couldn't breed you winners it just means those birds didn't do well for the guy who's getting rid of them. With different handling they could be champs. One new guy in my club just picked up a pair in there the other day. Both birds were young birds fro 2010 and both had WTCM bands on them. He said they looked really nice then he saw the bands. So he had to try them out. He figured since they had $100 bands on them that who ever bred them must of had some confidence in them when they bred them.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

I was going through and taking notes on all the birds that actually came home from the races (not necessarily in time to clock). All of them are from free-$10 birds.  Only two were $10. A few were $5. The rest were free!


----------



## bloodlines_365

One time I bougth an import hen from the pet store for ten bucks went home and goggle the band to my surprise she was a granddaugther of magic star,she was a bit old 98 but i still manage to get one set of good eggs from her.... Some of those birds are not junk at all but u must be very Extra carefully when bringing home those birds specially if they stay long at the store.. U know what I mean!!


----------



## Xueoo

Guess the pics didn't show. 

Here are the links.

Hen: http://flic.kr/p/98GztM

Cock: http://flic.kr/p/98KH4u


----------



## Xueoo

hillfamilyloft said:


> As good as you did last year, I think this might just be the selection method to follow. Maybe I should put my money where my mouth is. This year I feel that any pair in the loft could produce a good bird. Just randomly select two and go with it.


Well...there is "selection" involved, although not race result selection. There are certain attitudes, looks and feel that I like, and, the family have been tested. Just not race tested or flown on a clock in a long time. They are borne disadvantaged, however, they are "racing pigeons"...


----------



## conditionfreak

Actually they are not "racing pigeons" unless they race.


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

Flapdoodle said:


> I am also calling BS on the 9 out of 10 rounds in the black at 100'yds... No way James is that good...
> 
> Just sign up for the biggest little race in the world and send me a couple of birds to fly... [/I][/B]


How did you know ?!  You are correct, pure fabrication !!!  I wouldn't have ever seen this again, except I am going back through old posts trying to figure out what name James Hale is using on these pages !!


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Xueoo said:


> Guess the pics didn't show.
> 
> Here are the links.
> 
> Hen: http://flic.kr/p/98GztM
> 
> Cock: http://flic.kr/p/98KH4u


Looking good.


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

How's everyone doing with their breeding selections? I have 4 pairs I set aside to choose yb s from for this race. I took out the fake eggs on the 21st so I'm expecting them to lay in a week or two. Can't wait to have my wife pick out the champions!


----------



## rackerman

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> How's everyone doing with their breeding selections? I have 4 pairs I set aside to choose yb s from for this race. I took out the fake eggs on the 21st so I'm expecting them to lay in a week or two. Can't wait to have my wife pick out the champions!


I hope mine will start laying soon or I won't make the race. My fingers are crossed!


----------



## PigeonVilla

rackerman said:


> I hope mine will start laying soon or I won't make the race. My fingers are crossed!


how many pairs do you have in your breeding loft and are your birds on lights , that tends to get them going faster ?


----------



## hillfamilyloft

I am pairing my birds this weekend. They should hit the ship dates. I will probably pull a couple that are ready at the time. Not sure which ones. There are a few pairs that I want to send young for my ALB team. Need to put myself in a better position there. Will try and send a few off of established pairs. I have a bunch of new pairings this year.


----------



## Xueoo

I've had my pair paired for a month now. No eggs yet. Maybe the hen's a little too young, or, maybe I'll move them to a different section to stimulate the hormones. I need some tingling going on soon... 

I might end up sending late ones.

A thought, anybody interested in throwing in $20 (per team of two birds) for a pool and winner take all? Or, 1st, 2nd, 3rd divide the loot 50%-25$-25%? If 20 breeders put in $20each there will be $400 to split, 1st $200, 2nd $100, 3rd $100. Just a thought to make it interesting.


----------



## Feathered Dragons

*Barless*



g0ldenb0y55 said:


> How's everyone doing with their breeding selections? I have 4 pairs I set aside to choose yb s from for this race. I took out the fake eggs on the 21st so I'm expecting them to lay in a week or two. Can't wait to have my wife pick out the champions!


I would like to send a pair of my Barless but they have not given me anything yet. I do have one pair on eggs right now but time will tell. I may have to send something else but I would like to see what my Barless can do.


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## g0ldenb0y55

rackerman said:


> I hope mine will start laying soon or I won't make the race. My fingers are crossed!


Get some light on them like PigeonVilla mentioned if you havent already. It took mine close to a month to lay when I put them on the light. Then I replaced with fake eggs until I was ready for them to lay again. 



Xueoo said:


> I've had my pair paired for a month now. No eggs yet. Maybe the hen's a little too young, or, maybe I'll move them to a different section to stimulate the hormones. I need some tingling going on soon...
> 
> I might end up sending late ones.
> 
> A thought, anybody interested in throwing in $20 (per team of two birds) for a pool and winner take all? Or, 1st, 2nd, 3rd divide the loot 50%-25$-25%? If 20 breeders put in $20each there will be $400 to split, 1st $200, 2nd $100, 3rd $100. Just a thought to make it interesting.


I have a hen that's giving me the same problem. It's been 2 months with her new mate and still no eggs. The only other time she layed was with her previous mate and the baby's turned out fantastic. So I thought to try her out with what I feel is a better breeding cock this time around but she just won't give up the goods! I'm tempted to break this pairing and put her back with the previous cock. 



mcox0112 said:


> I would like to send a pair of my Barless but they have not given me anything yet. I do have one pair on eggs right now but time will tell. I may have to send something else but I would like to see what my Barless can do.


Send some of them barless birds out here and I'll get them laying!


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## Feathered Dragons

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> Send some of them barless birds out here and I'll get them laying!


Yeah I know you want some of my Barless but they are a work in progress. When I make the Cover of the Digest I'll send you a pair. LOL


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## g0ldenb0y55

mcox0112 said:


> Yeah I know you want some of my Barless but they are a work in progress. When I make the Cover of the Digest I'll send you a pair. LOL


Let's hope you do! Then I'll for sure be a happy camper with a pair of champion line barless birds.


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## Feathered Dragons

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> Let's hope you do! Then I'll for sure be a happy camper with a pair of champion line barless birds.


I cant take any credit from my barless yet. I got my barless breeders from my mentor, Tom Domanski, and they were out of Lofts of Dennis Kuhns. It doesnt hurt to dream a little.


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

mcox0112 said:


> I cant take any credit from my barless yet. I got my barless breeders from my mentor, Tom Domanski, and they were out of Lofts of Dennis Kuhns. It doesnt hurt to dream a little.


Seems like yo got a pretty good start with birds coming from Dennis Khun. I've heard good things about his birds.


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## Feathered Dragons

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> Seems like yo got a pretty good start with birds coming from Dennis Khun. I've heard good things about his birds.


I know racing is all about the fastest bird but I really want to breed the speed into the barless. My favorite breeder I have right now is my barless brown. She is so beautiful when she sits out on her perch in the sun. She is the grand daughter from the pair Tom got from D. Kuhn. Tom didnt want to get rid of his barless but due to the family/work thing and now he is going into working with another breeder so he had to downsize.


----------



## Feathered Dragons

*Barless*

Looks like I'll be sending some Barless after all. Just had my first hatch out of them tonight.


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## rackerman

mcox0112 said:


> Looks like I'll be sending some Barless after all. Just had my first hatch out of them tonight.


Good for you... I wish my birds would start laying. I figure they better in the next three weeks or I won't make the race.........


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## Feathered Dragons

I'm shocked they hatched. It didn't seem like they were ever sitting on them but I guess they did enough.


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## g0ldenb0y55

mcox0112 said:


> Looks like I'll be sending some Barless after all. Just had my first hatch out of them tonight.


Congrats! Most of my hens have eggs now so I'll definitely have birds to send!


----------



## eyespyer

without going through 27 pages of post, LOL

When do we start shipping?

I have babies and eggs - I am about ready to ship birds. 

Good luck to all _ this is going to be fun


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## Feathered Dragons

Go to page one and read the rules update at the bottom of the first post.


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## eyespyer

mcox0112 said:


> Go to page one and read the rules update at the bottom of the first post.


Thanks 

Again - good luck to all


----------



## Crazy Pete

mcox0112 said:


> I cant take any credit from my barless yet. I got my barless breeders from my mentor, Tom Domanski, and they were out of Lofts of Dennis Kuhns. It doesnt hurt to dream a little.


Does Tom fly with the CIRPC club in Nebraska,and do you think he might still have any barless?
Dave


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## Feathered Dragons

Crazy Pete said:


> Does Tom fly with the CIRPC club in Nebraska,and do you think he might still have any barless?
> Dave


I'm not sure who he is flying with now but I do know that he doesn't have any Barless left.


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## Crazy Pete

I guess I'll have to call Dennis Kuhn I have a barless blue cock I would like to find a mate for.
Dave


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## Feathered Dragons

Crazy Pete said:


> I guess I'll have to call Dennis Kuhn I have a barless blue cock I would like to find a mate for.
> Dave


I'd like to find a barless brown cock to pair up with my barless brown hen.


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## Crazy Pete

Dennis Kuhn is a PT member and has barless bards that he races. He has a web site and always has birds for sale. Go to the members list and PM him I'm sure he can help you out. I bought birds from him last year nice birds.
Dave


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## g0ldenb0y55

All this talk about barless birds is driving me crazy guys! I'm tempted to get a pair right now!


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## West

Looks like I'm going to have to sit this one out even though I made the list. Returned from deployment and realized I need to fix my loft situation so can't pair the birds up yet. Planning on tearing down two mismatched smaller lofts I have now and moving one large loft to make things simpler. Next year I'll be ready for the PT race!


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## bbcdon

West said:


> Looks like I'm going to have to sit this one out even though I made the list. Returned from deployment and realized I need to fix my loft situation so can't pair the birds up yet. Planning on tearing down two mismatched smaller lofts I have now and moving one large loft to make things simpler. Next year I'll be ready for the PT race!


Thank you for your service for our country. If ever you need anything, don't hesitate to contact me.


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## hillfamilyloft

Thought you all would like to see this;

Vanilla Ice (the winner last year) has a baby in the bowl. She is mated to one of Warren's cocks too. When she relays one of those babies will be going to the PT race to defend the title in 2011. VI is a light silver and the cock is a red check. So ya know the bird will be beautiful. BUT of course I'll need to let my wife decide if the ones I will be sending will be pretty enuff. 
__________________
" QUIET TIME LOFT " 
IF 2007 Rookie of the year award winner


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## hillfamilyloft

Found this on the SFL post


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## MaryOfExeter

I'm hoping my Sion pair will lay again soon. I have their first round and their second did not go over well.


----------



## SouthTown Racers

Has anyone heard from Flap lately??


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## A_Smith

hillfamilyloft said:


> Thought you all would like to see this;
> 
> Vanilla Ice (the winner last year) has a baby in the bowl. She is mated to one of Warren's cocks too. When she relays one of those babies will be going to the PT race to defend the title in 2011. VI is a light silver and the cock is a red check. So ya know the bird will be beautiful. BUT of course I'll need to let my wife decide if the ones I will be sending will be pretty enuff.
> __________________
> " QUIET TIME LOFT "
> IF 2007 Rookie of the year award winner


Yup I did post that, on a thread about this race.  Still waiting for VI to relay. Hope she lays soon. Did anyone receive the conformation email about this race, and where to send the birds?


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## rackerman

A_Smith said:


> Yup I did post that, on a thread about this race.  Still waiting for VI to relay. Hope she lays soon. Did anyone receive the conformation email about this race, and where to send the birds?


no conformation email that I have seen.


----------



## Flapdoodle

SouthTown Racers said:


> Has anyone heard from Flap lately??


That flap guy is a flake...

My hiatus from the birds and the forum has earned some points with my wife and kids. Hopefully there has not been much fallout here. 

I will send out an email or add a questionnaire around the 1st of March. I hope everyone is having a great new year and the breeding season is going well (if you have started yet).

Still working on the loft. It is split between both locations. We have great weather until Tuesday next week. I worked on it a little this evening and will spend as much time the next few days as I can. Originally wanted it done by the 1st of the year. The new goal is to have it all wrapped up by March 1st. 

Bands: Our club is going to hold a band race. http://www.goforthegoldrace.com/ I wish I could say that there was going to be a huge prize payout but we just don't have the numbers. If you want to buy bands let me know. Anyone who purchases bands ($40 a pop) from the club will not have to send the $20 with the birds. I will eat the fee to send birds to my loft. If you have done well sending birds out to other lofts or one loft races and want to purchase bands I will match your $40 you buy a band I will buy the second. Any prize that is won would be split between us. If no one wants to purchase bands that is fine.

For those who want or need regular AU club bands (not for the band race) I can mail those out. I purchased 100 bands that I don't have a need for. Just let me know.


----------



## Timber

Sent ya a PM.....


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## hillfamilyloft

Wife has me on an allowance or I would buy a couple of bands. Getting birds to the race will be tough for me this year. Had my first eggs today.


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## West

bbcdon said:


> Thank you for your service for our country. If ever you need anything, don't hesitate to contact me.


It means a lot Don, thank you for the support.


----------



## Crazy Pete

West said:


> Looks like I'm going to have to sit this one out even though I made the list. Returned from deployment and realized I need to fix my loft situation so can't pair the birds up yet. Planning on tearing down two mismatched smaller lofts I have now and moving one large loft to make things simpler. Next year I'll be ready for the PT race!


I would like to thank you for your service. If you want I bet there are a lot of members here that would breed a pair for you or you could send some one a pair to breed for you. And I would be glad to pay the entree fee. 
Dave


----------



## Timber

West said:


> It means a lot Don, thank you for the support.


West,

Thank you for your service! I to was deployed and got home July '06. If agreed by the other members, I too can send in an entry in your behalf, just send Tom the entry fee and you can keep the bird(s) after the race. I will even send you a pedigree for it after the race is over.


----------



## Timber

Flapdoodle said:


> That flap guy is a flake...
> Bands: Our club is going to hold a band race. http://www.goforthegoldrace.com/ I wish I could say that there was going to be a huge prize payout but we just don't have the numbers. If you want to buy bands let me know. Anyone who purchases bands ($40 a pop) from the club will not have to send the $20 with the birds. I will eat the fee to send birds to my loft. If you have done well sending birds out to other lofts or one loft races and want to purchase bands I will match your $40 you buy a band I will buy the second. Any prize that is won would be split between us. If no one wants to purchase bands that is fine.


Tom, I sent the payment out to you today, Thanks!


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## g0ldenb0y55

Flapdoodle said:


> That flap guy is a flake...
> Bands: Our club is going to hold a band race. http://www.goforthegoldrace.com/ I wish I could say that there was going to be a huge prize payout but we just don't have the numbers. If you want to buy bands let me know. Anyone who purchases bands ($40 a pop) from the club will not have to send the $20 with the birds. I will eat the fee to send birds to my loft. If you have done well sending birds out to other lofts or one loft races and want to purchase bands I will match your $40 you buy a band I will buy the second. Any prize that is won would be split between us. If no one wants to purchase bands that is fine.
> 
> For those who want or need regular AU club bands (not for the band race) I can mail those out. I purchased 100 bands that I don't have a need for. Just let me know.


Okay let me get this right, so for a total of $40 you will send me 2 bands for the money race because you'll match the $40 plus the fee for the PT Classic race is waived? Am I getting this right? If that's the case then that's a really great opportunity!


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## Timber

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> Okay let me get this right, so for a total of $40 you will send me 2 bands for the money race because you'll match the $40 plus the fee for the PT Classic race is waived? Am I getting this right? If that's the case then that's a really great opportunity!


Thats what he explained to me....my check is already in the mail....


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## g0ldenb0y55

Timber said:


> Thats what he explained to me....my check is already in the mail....


That's pretty awesome. I sent Tom a PM just now.


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## West

Crazy Pete said:


> I would like to thank you for your service. If you want I bet there are a lot of members here that would breed a pair for you or you could send some one a pair to breed for you. And I would be glad to pay the entree fee.
> Dave





Timber said:


> West,
> 
> Thank you for your service! I to was deployed and got home July '06. If agreed by the other members, I too can send in an entry in your behalf, just send Tom the entry fee and you can keep the bird(s) after the race. I will even send you a pedigree for it after the race is over.


This is very generous of both of you. I would love to have birds sent for me so I can participate and not sit the sidelines. Dave I don't know if I'd feel right having you pay for me though, it's only $20! Regardless, you guys are great.


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## blongboy

Flapdoodle said:


> That flap guy is a flake...
> 
> My hiatus from the birds and the forum has earned some points with my wife and kids. Hopefully there has not been much fallout here.
> 
> I will send out an email or add a questionnaire around the 1st of March. I hope everyone is having a great new year and the breeding season is going well (if you have started yet).
> 
> Still working on the loft. It is split between both locations. We have great weather until Tuesday next week. I worked on it a little this evening and will spend as much time the next few days as I can. Originally wanted it done by the 1st of the year. The new goal is to have it all wrapped up by March 1st.
> 
> Bands: Our club is going to hold a band race. http://www.goforthegoldrace.com/ I wish I could say that there was going to be a huge prize payout but we just don't have the numbers. If you want to buy bands let me know. Anyone who purchases bands ($40 a pop) from the club will not have to send the $20 with the birds. I will eat the fee to send birds to my loft. If you have done well sending birds out to other lofts or one loft races and want to purchase bands I will match your $40 you buy a band I will buy the second. Any prize that is won would be split between us. If no one wants to purchase bands that is fine.
> 
> For those who want or need regular AU club bands (not for the band race) I can mail those out. I purchased 100 bands that I don't have a need for. Just let me know.


do you take paypal?


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## Flapdoodle

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> Okay let me get this right, so for a total of $40 you will send me 2 bands for the money race because you'll match the $40 plus the fee for the PT Classic race is waived? Am I getting this right? If that's the case then that's a really great opportunity!


That is right... The club is trying to raise some money. I am trying to support the club. If I was banding my own birds I would be picking up ten or so bands.



blongboy said:


> do you take paypal?


paypal works "[email protected]"


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## Flapdoodle

Flapdoodle said:


> That flap guy is a flake...
> 
> My hiatus from the birds and the forum has earned some points with my wife and kids. Hopefully there has not been much fallout here.
> 
> I will send out an email or add a questionnaire around the 1st of March. I hope everyone is having a great new year and the breeding season is going well (if you have started yet).
> 
> Still working on the loft. It is split between both locations. We have great weather until Tuesday next week. I worked on it a little this evening and will spend as much time the next few days as I can. Originally wanted it done by the 1st of the year. The new goal is to have it all wrapped up by March 1st.
> 
> Bands: Our club is going to hold a band race. http://www.goforthegoldrace.com/ I wish I could say that there was going to be a huge prize payout but we just don't have the numbers. If you want to buy bands let me know. Anyone who purchases bands ($40 a pop) from the club will not have to send the $20 with the birds. I will eat the fee to send birds to my loft. If you have done well sending birds out to other lofts or one loft races and want to purchase bands I will match your $40 you buy a band I will buy the second. Any prize that is won would be split between us. If no one wants to purchase bands that is fine.
> 
> For those who want or need regular AU club bands (not for the band race) I can mail those out. I purchased 100 bands that I don't have a need for. Just let me know.


Some clarification… The deal where I match your $40 for bands is open only for the PT birds you are sending me. If you want to send extra birds I could place them in other flyers lofts but you would have to ponie up the money for those separate. Anyone that takes advantage of this offer would be helping the club out but the Go For The Gold Race takes second place to the real race “PT Classic”. In order to get into the actual races for the GFTG prize the birds would have to be in the top 40 in my loft or go as trainers. 

Hope that makes sense. Any questions send them away.


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## conditionfreak

Loft locations signed up for this event thus far.

Pretty good representation of the U.S. and beyond. Loft locations signed up for this event thus far. Around 128 birds if each send two.

California
Georgia
Florida
Oklahoma
Nebraska
North Carolina
Washington State
Texas
Colorado
The Great State of Ohio 
Michigan
Iowa
New Mexico
South Carolina
Mississippi
Connecticut
Maryland
Missouri
Idaho
West Virginia
New York
Pennsylvania (home of the current championship trophy holder)
Indiana
Kentucky
Wisconsin
Nevada

and India 


Gonna be an awesome thrill when I win.  (conditionfreak, the forever optimist)


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## blongboy

conditionfreak said:


> Loft locations signed up for this event thus far.
> 
> Pretty good representation of the U.S. and beyond. Loft locations signed up for this event thus far. Around 128 birds if each send two.
> 
> California
> Georgia
> Florida
> Oklahoma
> Nebraska
> North Carolina
> Washington State
> Texas
> Colorado
> The Great State of Ohio
> Michigan
> Iowa
> New Mexico
> South Carolina
> Mississippi
> Connecticut
> Maryland
> Missouri
> Idaho
> West Virginia
> New York
> Pennsylvania (home of the current championship trophy holder)
> Indiana
> Kentucky
> Wisconsin
> Nevada
> 
> and India
> 
> 
> Gonna be an awesome thrill when I win.  (conditionfreak, the forever optimist)


LOL ... there will be only 1 number 1


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## Feathered Dragons

Just relax, a Buckeye is a worthless nut, so nothing good can come from it. LOL


----------



## conditionfreak

Wrong. Buckeye trees come from them. Which in turn gives us more Buckeyes. (it's a viscious circle) 

So do the Ohio State Buckeyes! Soon to be the NCAA Champs! (but y'all already knew that. Didn't ya?)


----------



## rackerman

conditionfreak said:


> Loft locations signed up for this event thus far.
> 
> Pretty good representation of the U.S. and beyond. Loft locations signed up for this event thus far. Around 128 birds if each send two.
> 
> California
> Georgia
> Florida
> Oklahoma
> Nebraska
> North Carolina
> Washington State
> Texas
> Colorado
> The Great State of Ohio
> Michigan
> Iowa
> New Mexico
> South Carolina
> Mississippi
> Connecticut
> Maryland
> Missouri
> Idaho
> West Virginia
> New York
> Pennsylvania (home of the current championship trophy holder)
> Indiana
> Kentucky
> Wisconsin
> Nevada
> 
> and India
> 
> 
> Gonna be an awesome thrill when I win.  (conditionfreak, the forever optimist)


*Thats awesome, 26 states and one country. Maybe next year we can get all 50 states & another Country or two.....*


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## Hawk_hunter

This will be my first race. I will sent my first two babies off of my first breeders. And I just need another first .....


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## pigeon_racer

Don't feel alone this is my first time entering also!


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## Hawk_hunter

pigeon_racer said:


> Don't feel alone this is my first time entering also!


Thanks pigeon_racer. Bird bless us


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## g0ldenb0y55

Looks like the PT classic will be a lot of fun this year. I'm waiting on eggs to hatch so I can select what birds to send to compete for the title!


----------



## conditionfreak

I have my first round done and on their own. 17 beautiful babies.

But the birds I am going to send to the PT Classic are just eggs right now. Just one week old eggs. I hope all goes well with them.

One of my entries is going to have some nostalgia with it. It will be from two of last years contestants, and will have the same band number as my last year entry. Number 100. The cock being my blue bar entry last year and the hen being a red check gift from Flapdoodle.

I am working on a tradition. 

Haven't decided on the other entry for this year yet. But am leaning towards an offspring of a Belgium import, solid black Jan Ardyn hen crossed with a bird I bought on ipigeon from Carlos Avilla and is a black white flight cock bird that is heavy lineaged on Ludo Claessen lines.

Another option is from a cock bird Belgium import exactly as described above, crossed with a local indigo hen that has very good 500 mile lineage. It came from Devere Burt and he is a genius with pigeons.

But then there is the option of a baby from "Speckles" and his mate. hmmm...

Decisions, decisions.

Are we allowed to enter three birds? (I forget the rule)


----------



## blongboy

conditionfreak said:


> I have my first round done and on their own. 17 beautiful babies.
> 
> But the birds I am going to send to the PT Classic are just eggs right now. Just one week old eggs. I hope all goes well with them.
> 
> One of my entries is going to have some nostalgia with it. It will be from two of last years contestants, and will have the same band number as my last year entry. Number 100. The cock being my blue bar entry last year and the hen being a red check gift from Flapdoodle.
> 
> I am working on a tradition.
> 
> Haven't decided on the other entry for this year yet. But am leaning towards an offspring of a Belgium import, solid black Jan Ardyn hen crossed with a bird I bought on ipigeon from Carlos Avilla and is a black white flight cock bird that is heavy lineaged on Ludo Claessen lines.
> 
> Another option is from a cock bird Belgium import exactly as described above, crossed with a local indigo hen that has very good 500 mile lineage. It came from Devere Burt and he is a genius with pigeons.
> 
> But then there is the option of a baby from "Speckles" and his mate. hmmm...
> 
> Decisions, decisions.
> 
> Are we allowed to enter three birds? (I forget the rule)


i like the black one...and it's only 2 birds


----------



## conditionfreak

I had a more knowledgeable flier than I, tell me just yesterday. That if sending one bird from a nest, send the one that hatched second. He said it will be the better bird of the two, usually. He didn't go into details as to why. We were discussing some other stuff and I forgot to inquire further.

Anyone else think that holds true? (Oh my. I just gave away a secret)


----------



## mtripOH

I am hoping that we will have a team to send. So far we have had only one pair lay. Those eggs hatched last week so they are out of the question. The pair we were counting on seem to have taken a break and have not laid anything. Being new to the sport we have no "system" and have just been letting nature take its course. I am in high hopes that we will have birds to send. Josiah's friends at 4-H and some of the parents are really into hearing how things are evolving for this race. If anything maybe we have sparked some interest and hopefully some others will get into the world of pigeons.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

conditionfreak said:


> I had a more knowledgeable flier than I, tell me just yesterday. That if sending one bird from a nest, send the one that hatched second. He said it will be the better bird of the two, usually. He didn't go into details as to why. We were discussing some other stuff and I forgot to inquire further.
> 
> Anyone else think that holds true? (Oh my. I just gave away a secret)


Probably just a wive's tale of the pigeon world  I can't think of any reason for that to be true (or at least true all the time). The first hatch would get fed first, and have a better chance of growing bigger and faster. Of course that can happen to either depending on who is more of a hog, but if there is a considerable difference in hatching times, it could make a difference I suppose.


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## g0ldenb0y55

mtripOH said:


> I am hoping that we will have a team to send. So far we have had only one pair lay. Those eggs hatched last week so they are out of the question. The pair we were counting on seem to have taken a break and have not laid anything. Being new to the sport we have no "system" and have just been letting nature take its course. I am in high hopes that we will have birds to send. Josiah's friends at 4-H and some of the parents are really into hearing how things are evolving for this race. If anything maybe we have sparked some interest and hopefully some others will get into the world of pigeons.


I have a pair that I chose to get babies from for this race do that also but I have backups so all is good. Hope they drop eggs for you soon and it's great that your sons friend's are taking an interest, we need more youngsters getting involved!


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## Feathered Dragons

I think I will send this pair of barless, a blue and a brown.


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## A_Smith

mcox0112 said:


> I think I will send this pair of barless, a blue and a brown.


Those babies will be a little to old. No birds should arrive before March 21st at the PT loft.


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## Crazy Pete

I'm hoping mine will be ok they should hatch today, I have backups just this is the pair that I wanted to send.
Dave


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## MaryOfExeter

conditionfreak said:


> I have my first round done and on their own. 17 beautiful babies.
> 
> But the birds I am going to send to the PT Classic are just eggs right now. Just one week old eggs. I hope all goes well with them.
> 
> One of my entries is going to have some nostalgia with it. It will be from two of last years contestants, and will have the same band number as my last year entry. Number 100. The cock being my blue bar entry last year and the hen being a red check gift from Flapdoodle.
> 
> I am working on a tradition.
> Haven't decided on the other entry for this year yet. But am leaning towards an offspring of a Belgium import, solid black Jan Ardyn hen crossed with a bird I bought on ipigeon from Carlos Avilla and is a black white flight cock bird that is heavy lineaged on Ludo Claessen lines.
> 
> Another option is from a cock bird Belgium import exactly as described above, crossed with a local indigo hen that has very good 500 mile lineage. It came from Devere Burt and he is a genius with pigeons.
> 
> But then there is the option of a baby from "Speckles" and his mate. hmmm...
> 
> Decisions, decisions.
> 
> Are we allowed to enter three birds? (I forget the rule)


So you've got a black Belgium bird mated to an indigo? Why must you make me jealous with that color  If that belgium bird is also black, you'll get some andalusians, which I am quite fond of (along with regular indigo, of course).


I'll probably be sending a Sion (or two, a lot of my breeders are not in sync anymore  and those who are, may have babies too old). They just need to get on the ball and lay eggs again. Luckily I have a pair that just hatched out, that I'm hoping will both be grizzles, so I can send them to the Grizzle race. I'm also hoping some other grizzles will hatch out very soon, so I can send from more than one pair. Maybe I should start keeping up with lay dates so I'm not so anxious


----------



## RodSD

conditionfreak said:


> I had a more knowledgeable flier than I, tell me just yesterday. That if sending one bird from a nest, send the one that hatched second. He said it will be the better bird of the two, usually. He didn't go into details as to why. We were discussing some other stuff and I forgot to inquire further.
> 
> Anyone else think that holds true? (Oh my. I just gave away a secret)


Are you sure you didn't get this reversed? Usually the first born seems bigger and have growth advantage.

There is this theory that the second egg usually turns out to be a hen and hen seems to be better in long distance races so maybe that is what this guy is proposing or not hinting.

There is also this theory that later birds are better in racing so the birds you sent early may not be the winning bird.

I have not tested this theory or lack thereof.


----------



## conditionfreak

I had it right. His thinking is that a hen is better to send to an important race and that the second to hatch is usually a hen.

I can't speak to the validity of that statement. Never kept records that detailed.


----------



## RodSD

Ok. Anymore secrets? LOL! I've been trying to find some new secrets, but there seems to be not much new in the sun.

That theory where later birds that are raced seems to win more seems to have some data to support it. So breed some summer birds! I still haven't figured out the explanation for that.

The one with pigeon hen as good in longer distances may have something to do with their fat content. I don't know whether hen is fattier, but in human, women may carry more fat (no offense to women). So they have backup (energy) reserves.


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

mcox0112 said:


> I think I will send this pair of barless, a blue and a brown.


Nice looking babies bro!

What do you guys/gals think about posting pictures of your potential PT contenders?


----------



## Feathered Dragons

I dont see what it would hurt. Looks don't effect how well they fly, just how good they look at the finish line. LOL


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

mcox0112 said:


> I dont see what it would hurt. Looks don't effect how well they fly, just how good they look at the finish line. LOL


Performing is FIRST but it doesn't hurt to look good while doing so!


----------



## bbcdon

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> Nice looking babies bro!
> 
> What do you guys/gals think about posting pictures of your potential PT contenders?


I would be glad to when they hatch.


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

There you go, Don's getting in the mix! 

How are them pretty performing birds of yours doing at the Zeppelin Loft?


----------



## conditionfreak

RodSD said:


> Ok. Anymore secrets? LOL! I've been trying to find some new secrets, but there seems to be not much new in the sun.
> 
> That theory where later birds that are raced seems to win more seems to have some data to support it. So breed some summer birds! I still haven't figured out the explanation for that.
> 
> The one with pigeon hen as good in longer distances may have something to do with their fat content. I don't know whether hen is fattier, but in human, women may carry more fat (no offense to women). So they have backup (energy) reserves.


Whoa boy. I ain't touchin that one with a ten foot pole. 

As far as posting pics of the contestants, prior to them being sent to Flapdoodle, I have a question.

Last year (the inaugural PT Classic event), there was a "prettiest bird" contest. Whereupon Flapdoodle did a video of all of the contestants. My bird won and I didn't even vote for it. Because I didn't recognize it and also because I thought a couple of others were prettier.

Having said all of that. If there is going to be another "prettiest bird" contest, and pictures of them as youngsters have previously been posted. Will that affect the voting and would it matter if it did?

I'm just asking. 

Personally I'm all for posting pics. That's what we do here.


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

Never really put anymore thought to it than sharing the photos...


----------



## Alamo

A hen lets say laid her 1st egg today 2/14...The second egg is laid Wed 2/16....Do the babies hatch the same day,or 3 days apart ?? I know the answer,and all this stuff about one baby who hatches 1st is the winner,or the 2nd is the winner,or the 2nd is a hen etc etc etc.....Does asnyone here really beleive all these wives tales ???
The hen will not sit the 1st egg laid,untill the 2nd is laid..In that way,they hatch together....There must be a million books that tell you that,and DVD`s also....I can`t beleive all this that is written here sometimes...New pigeon people will think everything that is written here is real...Please don`t post nonsence here...It hurts the new folks,trying to LEARN the correct way in breeding pigeons etc....Alamo


----------



## bbcdon

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> There you go, Don's getting in the mix!
> 
> How are them pretty performing birds of yours doing at the Zeppelin Loft?


They finally got into the mood after using the lights for about a week.


----------



## Big T

Alamo said:


> A hen lets say laid her 1st egg today 2/14...The second egg is laid Wed 2/16....Do the babies hatch the same day,or 3 days apart ?? I know the answer,and all this stuff about one baby who hatches 1st is the winner,or the 2nd is the winner,or the 2nd is a hen etc etc etc.....Does asnyone here really beleive all these wives tales ???
> The hen will not sit the 1st egg laid,untill the 2nd is laid..In that way,they hatch together....There must be a million books that tell you that,and DVD`s also....I can`t beleive all this that is written here sometimes...New pigeon people will think everything that is written here is real...Please don`t post nonsence here...It hurts the new folks,trying to LEARN the correct way in breeding pigeons etc....Alamo


Now Now Alamo, Sometimes it is good to throw a little nonsense out there. One, some people believe it and it is good for all of us to point out the facts.
Two, some of it is funny. I'm not telling my wife she carries more fat then me so therefore she can run farther. I like living!!!!
Three, sometimes it is good to know your racing buddies are off base. Better chance at winning.
Four, If everyone knows everything, why have the forum?

Just in fun,
Tony


----------



## conditionfreak

Alamo. Can you explain to me why one baby in a nest is almost always bigger than the other? Additionally, can you explain to me why one egg will hatch before the other?

(some possible answers)

Cock and hen?

The parents sat the first egg before the second was laid?

They ain't never (do you like my grammer  ) different sizes and I am totally and completely wrong about that?

I should buy a DVD? Or your book?


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Some parents will sit on the eggs immediately, and some will wait until the second egg is laid. I'm assuming they hatch at different times during the day (or next day), because the hen probably starts sitting the day she is to lay the next egg. So the first one gets a little head start. Not necessairly AFTER the second is laid, in which they would hatch at the same time. You also have to consider it takes time to hatch, and even when I incubate chicken eggs, none of them hatch at the exact same time. They all hatch within an hour or two.
The size of the babies in the nest has never made a difference in my loft, as far as who is male or female. Most of the time, when they get their feathers, they are the same size anyway. I have had way too many same sex nest mates to put in the effort to record that much. And quite honestly, I really don't care if they are boys or girls. I care if they come home.


----------



## RodSD

Alamo said:


> A hen lets say laid her 1st egg today 2/14...The second egg is laid Wed 2/16....Do the babies hatch the same day,or 3 days apart ?? I know the answer,and all this stuff about one baby who hatches 1st is the winner,or the 2nd is the winner,or the 2nd is a hen etc etc etc.....Does asnyone here really beleive all these wives tales ???
> The hen will not sit the 1st egg laid,untill the 2nd is laid..In that way,they hatch together....There must be a million books that tell you that,and DVD`s also....I can`t beleive all this that is written here sometimes...New pigeon people will think everything that is written here is real...Please don`t post nonsence here...It hurts the new folks,trying to LEARN the correct way in breeding pigeons etc....Alamo


Well some eggs hatch earlier because the parents incubated the first eggs ahead of time. So you will end up with one smaller bird and a bigger bird initially. Sooner or later the smaller bird will catch up growthwise. If it doesn't and it is not sick, many times it is a hen. On average cocks are bigger.

Like any other ideas one has to think about it and compare results so if someone said that hen usually wins more on longer races, then you have to gather data from loft races or other races and make your own conclusions.

People that win may know something that they are not sharing. Some of their ideas are weird and nonsensical. It is really up to you. One thing I know is that it pays to observe. Most important discoveries are made by those looking for something as they say "prepared minds."

But you are right. Some of them are nonsensical because they are only anecdotal.


----------



## conditionfreak

I know enough about racing pigeons to know that I know little about racing pigeons.

If there was a for sure way to do it, or known reasons, explanations and methods for all involved in this sport. Then how would we have winners? It would always be a four hundred bird tie. All winning birds would be down from Ludo Claessens or Mike Ganus, and those that were not, would just be, has been so-so's.

Yet. Some old guy in a small loft on the outskirts of a small Irish village, will kick Ludo and Ganus birds butts. Once in awhile.

Maybe even a young girl in Mayberry, N.C. might also. 

That old guy or that young women, just might think that banding the second hatched bird in a nest with his or her money band, is the ticket to success. That old guy or young women might think that they have a better shot of winning by banding a hen and that odds are the second to hatch in any given nest, is a hen. 

Ya gotz a fitty-fitty shot anyways.


----------



## pigeon_racer

Hey Goldenboy!

Nice Dragoon cock! Who got you stated with them, and are these two from the same person?


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

I've never had eggs hatch at the same time... I think that's the wives tale...


----------



## RodSD

Unfortunately there is no sure way to do it. But you try as much as possible to find a way to win. You are either just play or breed random or try to figure out why such as such bird wins or why some fanciers are more successful than others even both may have the same knowledge about pigeons. Too many variables.

Now if the fancier just use the hen thinking it will always win longer distance or send the second hatch bird, then that person needs a whack in the head. That person is supposed to think and not blindly do something. The many selection theories are just tools to guide the fanciers.


----------



## conditionfreak

True enough.

When you come to a fork in the road, you can't go both ways at the same time. You try one and if it doesn't take you where you want to go. You go back and try the other. Sometimes you pick the right road first time and sometimes you pick the right road the second time. Or twenty-eighth. Helps to have someone tell you which direction takes you where you want to go, but sometimes directions are wrong or outdated.  (I'm on try number 3).


----------



## RodSD

If you are on your twenty-eight, then you need a GPS or bird's eye view. LOL! Just teasing you!

Do you have stock sense or animal sense? I think that might help a lot. Unfortunately I can't explain that stock/animal sense to you. Some people have it. Some don't.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

RodSD said:


> If you are on your twenty-eight, then you need a GPS or bird's eye view. LOL! Just teasing you!
> 
> Do you have stock sense or animal sense? I think that might help a lot. Unfortunately I can't explain that stock/animal sense to you. Some people have it. Some don't.


Having good birds makes the processes of stock sense much easier. Sometimes I think the birds know better than I do. Went out to the loft yesterday and I am liking the pairings. I made a few and the birds made a few with my manipulation and narrowing of choices. We will see.


----------



## Pigeon0446

I looked up what stock sense ment since I've never heard of the term b4. Well I came up with another forum and I thought this was a pretty good post in which the guy talks about a few things but also tells you what stock sense is here's how he explained it "There are some people who really do have a gift with animals. This gift of recognizing quality in animals is called stock sense." But like I said he says some other stuff that some of you might like to read. Here's the link. http://pigeonchat.forumakers.com/t2159-pigeon-racing-rules-for-success-part-1 

I guess I have a pretty good stock sense since I'll pick out a few birds at each auction I go to and they always seam to be the birds who are bid the highest when they go up for auction and they usually go way too high for me to get. But when I do get one for a price I can see paying I normally make out pretty good. Out of the last 11 birds I've bought at auction to breed out of 7 of them have bred me diploma winners. One of the ones I haven't bred a diploma winner out of I only got one egg out of then she got egg bound. Two of the others I only got last fall so I'll see what I get this year. And the other is the brother to the hen who bred me one of my Hall of Fame birds last season. But I've only had a couple of babies out of him since he wouldn't mate up until late last year. So I'll see what I get this year out of him.


----------



## Alamo

At my loft,I go out in the morning and check to see who hatched,the day before....Very rarely is one bird hatched,and the other is not...As far as size goes,for many years I have been making notes if the size difference pertains to cocks and hens...At banding,I put the smaller # band on the smallest baby...Lets say #301....the larger baby gets #302 from this nest......I would say 70% of the time,I have been right.....Sometimes there might be 2 hens or 2 cocks in the nest....My biggest problem is two babies that look exactly the same size....
As per some posts about my last post:I,like many others,only try to deal with facts with this hobby....There are to many tales of woe out there....Sure it`s nice to imagine that YOU have found a NEW secret about pigeons...Everyone would love to think you can get something over on the other guys your flying against....You want to know a secret about racing pigeons ?? Ask the experts and they will tell you there are NO secrets...With all the books,and video`s out there by all these big time flyers,how can there be any ?? It`s GOOD PIGEONS....in GOOD CONDITION....in GOOD HEALTH that win races...Ask *SFL....Pigeon0446 and the other top guns here !! *......... Alamo


----------



## conditionfreak

Pigeon0446: I think you probably have a "good eye" instead of "stock sense". But who knows. I actually believe I have "stock sense" when it comes to humans. But that is another story for another time.


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

The cocks putting in work. 

I'll be selecting from these babies when they hatch.


----------



## Big T

RodSD said:


> If you are on your twenty-eight, then you need a GPS or bird's eye view. LOL! Just teasing you!
> 
> Do you have stock sense or animal sense? I think that might help a lot. Unfortunately I can't explain that stock/animal sense to you. Some people have it. Some don't.


I have No cents, does that count????

Tony


----------



## blongboy

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> The cocks putting in work.
> 
> I'll be selecting from these babies when they hatch.


i like the black one!!


----------



## conditionfreak

blongboy. Hard to judge a racing pigeon from one pic, but you have some very very nice looking birds on those nests. They look healthy and "serious".

P.S. The red one looks like your best bet. I won't tell you why, yet.


----------



## blongboy

conditionfreak said:


> blongboy. Hard to judge a racing pigeon from one pic, but you have some very very nice looking birds on those nests. They look healthy and "serious".
> 
> P.S. The red one looks like your best bet. I won't tell you why, yet.


i picked it cause it was black


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

conditionfreak said:


> blongboy. Hard to judge a racing pigeon from one pic, but you have some very very nice looking birds on those nests. They look healthy and "serious".
> 
> P.S. The red one looks like your best bet. I won't tell you why, yet.


Lol....these are my birds Conditionfreak, thanks for the comment.

I'm curious as to why you chose the red bird?

Blong - That black bird a the bottom is favorite of mine.


----------



## conditionfreak

Sorry GoldenBoy. I'm senile. 

Very nice looking homers.


----------



## conditionfreak

I chose the red one for a few reasons. 

1. I like red homers.

2. It chose the top nest box (seems like the top one, anyway).

3. The best bird that Flapdoodle had in his loft last year, was a red check hen. Points wise, it beat out all of the PT contestants, including "Vanilla Ice", by a lot.


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

conditionfreak said:


> I chose the red one for a few reasons.
> 
> 1. I like red homers.
> 
> 2. It chose the top nest box (seems like the top one, anyway).
> 
> 3. The best bird that Flapdoodle had in his loft last year, was a red check hen. Points wise, it beat out all of the PT contestants, including "Vanilla Ice", by a lot.


Thanks for the prospective! He's there for a reason and I hope I get what I want from him with this clutch.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Well I have 14 eggs and about five or six pairs ready to lay. Looks like the April 4th date they will be about 28 days old. Better have eggs in the next week to make the april 11th deadline to ship. I will have a good number of birds to choose from. Happy breeding.


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

I'm trying to have birds ready to ship on the first shipping day March 21.


----------



## blongboy

just laid!! i will make the deadline


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

That's good news!


----------



## Xueoo

I'm having a hard time breeding this year. It's my fault as I don't have an adequate breeding loft. And, it seems whenever they lay, it rains and they leave the nest as they are doing now. My pair that I set up for the PT race had eggs 2 weeks ago, but one egg was layed on the floor and the other ended up IN the water cup. Don't know how that happened. They should lay again soon. I'm also low on hens this year so it makes for not having options.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

hillfamilyloft said:


> Well I have 14 eggs and about five or six pairs ready to lay. Looks like the April 4th date they will be about 28 days old. Better have eggs in the next week to make the april 11th deadline to ship. I will have a good number of birds to choose from. Happy breeding.


As of today I have 11 pairs on eggs. That is about half my pairs. Should have 6-8 more laying in a few days. The rest are a bit behind. Need to decide which ones to send.


----------



## mtripOH

I am feeling the pressure! After talking to many customers at my job and telling them about sending 2 YB to another loft far away to race...we are without eggs. We had 2 hatch from a very young pair a few weeks ago only to have them pass. I know that pair would have been too old to send but now we have no squeakers or eggs. I am hoping that something will happen very soon! Had some very cold. cold weather. Can that be the problem?


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Anyone have that hatching chart that Flap made, handy? I don't feel like fishing through all the threads looking for it, and I could use it right now.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

I think you will need eggs by about Wednesday to have birds ready at 28 days. So this week might be it. Add 18 from Wednesday and then 28 to that and you get April 11th. I have 26 eggs so I am good.


----------



## rackerman

*This is what Flap wrote me.

I will take birds a week or two late just not before March 15. I will keep my fingers crossed as well... good luck*

Hope this helps....


----------



## blongboy

MaryOfExeter said:


> Anyone have that hatching chart that Flap made, handy? I don't feel like fishing through all the threads looking for it, and I could use it right now.


here you go becky

https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub...eGlxWUxkdGs2TEhLNy14dnNURUE&hl=en&output=html


----------



## rackerman

Here Becky, I found it..........

https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?...en&output=html


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

I have 6 that hatched over the weekend, I'm good to go for the first shipping date!


----------



## Gnuretiree

Where is the best place to obtain a two bird shipping box?


----------



## Feathered Dragons

Gnuretiree said:


> Where is the best place to obtain a two bird shipping box?


I bought mine through Foys.


----------



## rackerman

mcox0112 said:


> I bought mine through Foys.


I too bought mine from Foys.


----------



## Timber

Gnuretiree said:


> Where is the best place to obtain a two bird shipping box?


You can also try boxes for birds dot com


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Thanks guys  I should have some hatching soon. Most are already hatched out, but I have 5 pairs on eggs. So I should have some to choose from  I'll probably send a bird from the Breast Cancer pair and a sibling of the Sion I sent last time.


----------



## Crazy Pete

Unless Flap tossed them out he should still have some from the birds he lost last yr. Or I could send one your way I still have some they can be reused, let me know what you want to do. 
Dave


----------



## Gnuretiree

I just ordered a box from boxesforbirds.com. I hope Flap has enough room to keep it in order to send the birds back after the race. - (That is me being way too overconfident!) Now I need two babies to send. I have a pair of 2010 birds that paired up and had eggs and one hatched yesterday. It is way too cold for me to check to see if the other is okay. I only saw one shell though. I guess these are going to be my entries, since the OB's aren't together yet.


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

The shipping dates are nearing! I hope everyone will make it in time and we get close to full participation from the many people who signed up.

Good luck to everyone!


----------



## rackerman

*My whites just laid a set a week ago today, looks like thats what I am sending. I am hoping the others lay this week! I really want to send the different colors. I think they will do better, but I will send whites if I have too.
I am hoping bcr1's birds lay so he can get them into the race. I just have to keep my fingers crossed........*


----------



## JaxRacingLofts

Flapdoodle said:


> That is right... The club is trying to raise some money. I am trying to support the club. If I was banding my own birds I would be picking up ten or so bands.
> 
> 
> 
> paypal works "[email protected]"





Flapdoodle said:


> Some clarification… The deal where I match your $40 for bands is open only for the PT birds you are sending me. If you want to send extra birds I could place them in other flyers lofts but you would have to ponie up the money for those separate. Anyone that takes advantage of this offer would be helping the club out but the Go For The Gold Race takes second place to the real race “PT Classic”. In order to get into the actual races for the GFTG prize the birds would have to be in the top 40 in my loft or go as trainers.
> 
> Hope that makes sense. Any questions send them away.


Tom,
If I send the $40 via paypal this week..when should I expect the GFTG bands?


----------



## HangsLoft

I havent read through all of the 34 pages, BUT- when you state : You pay to ship the birds to/from my loft, If money to ship the birds back is not received within two weeks after the last race the bird becomes my property. 

What does that tally up to at the end?


----------



## mtripOH

rackerman said:


> *My whites just laid a set a week ago today, looks like thats what I am sending. I am hoping the others lay this week! I really want to send the different colors. I think they will do better, but I will send whites if I have too.
> I am hoping bcr1's birds lay so he can get them into the race. I just have to keep my fingers crossed........*


Russ, we are in the same boat. Our whites are laying like crazy but our racers are doing everything but laying any eggs. We did have one pair of '10 birds hatch 2 eggs about 2 weeks ago (too soon for the race) but neither of those chicks made it  I think it was just too cold and the fact that it was the parents first attempt at raising young. I really don't want to send the whites as they are just kind of thrown together and I know nothing of their background. I am sure it will still be exciting just being involved with the race, but I sure wish our racers would get busy and show us some eggs.


----------



## conditionfreak

HangsLoft said:


> I havent read through all of the 34 pages, BUT- when you state : You pay to ship the birds to/from my loft, If money to ship the birds back is not received within two weeks after the last race the bird becomes my property.
> 
> What does that tally up to at the end?


He owns several birds that he didn't want to own.


----------



## rackerman

mtripOH said:


> Russ, we are in the same boat. Our whites are laying like crazy but our racers are doing everything but laying any eggs. We did have one pair of '10 birds hatch 2 eggs about 2 weeks ago (too soon for the race) but neither of those chicks made it  I think it was just too cold and the fact that it was the parents first attempt at raising young. I really don't want to send the whites as they are just kind of thrown together and I know nothing of their background. I am sure it will still be exciting just being involved with the race, but I sure wish our racers would get busy and show us some eggs.


Melissa, 
We still have time. Tom told me he would take birds a week or two late. You can write him to make sure, but thats what he told me.

Russ


----------



## MaryOfExeter

HangsLoft said:


> I havent read through all of the 34 pages, BUT- when you state : You pay to ship the birds to/from my loft, If money to ship the birds back is not received within two weeks after the last race the bird becomes my property.
> 
> What does that tally up to at the end?


It means you pay shipping (probably about $50) to get your birds there. You also pay shipping to get your birds back, IF you want them, after the season. If you do want them, you need to get the money to Flap within 2 weeks after the last race. That's another $50. That varies depending on where you live, but typically 2 birds, especially full grown ones, cost about that much.


----------



## fresnobirdman

MaryOfExeter said:


> It means you pay shipping (probably about $50) to get your birds there. You also pay shipping to get your birds back, IF you want them, after the season. If you do want them, you need to get the money to Flap within 2 weeks after the last race. That's another $50. That varies depending on where you live, but typically 2 birds, especially full grown ones, cost about that much.


To ship two full grown bird is about 35 dollars from your side excluding box. 
To receive two full grown bird is about 55 dollars from their side because they charge handling.


----------



## Flapdoodle

Crazy Pete said:


> Unless Flap tossed them out he should still have some from the birds he lost last yr. Or I could send one your way I still have some they can be reused, let me know what you want to do.
> Dave


I don't have any boxes left from last year. I mailed birds out to a few people that did not participate in the race and the rest went back with the birds. 



jAxTecH said:


> Tom,
> If I send the $40 via paypal this week..when should I expect the GFTG bands?


I need to pull the plug and GFTG Band offer. My goal to help the club was to get ten sold. I think we may have up to 16 in the loft. Don't hate me... 
If however someone wants to pony up the money for bands on their own without me matching that is still on the table. They are $40 a piece. I could mail them out tomorrow. Just shoot me a PM with shipping info if anyone is interested. 



fresnobirdman said:


> To ship two full grown bird is about 35 dollars from your side excluding box.
> To receive two full grown bird is about 55 dollars from their side because they charge handling.


Your right shipping is about $35. If birds are sent to me I will save your box to ship them back. There will not be any handling fee just the cost of shipping needs to be covered. 

Hope all is well with everyone. As far as birds outside the shipping window. Get as close as you can.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Well everytime I ship birds and think the cost calculated online is correct, with zip codes and everything, it always ends up more and I basically give my birds away  So for now on, when I sell birds, I'm charging $50 shipping for 1-2 birds. Especially if I already have boxes. I'm hoping you are right and it's only about $35 to get them to you.


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

MaryOfExeter said:


> Well everytime I ship birds and think the cost calculated online is correct, with zip codes and everything, it always ends up more and I basically give my birds away  So for now on, when I sell birds, I'm charging $50 shipping for 1-2 birds. Especially if I already have boxes. I'm hoping you are right and it's only about $35 to get them to you.


Becky, you're all the way out there in the east coast and Tom's loft is in the west coast, your shipping will more than likely be $50+.


----------



## fresnobirdman

MaryOfExeter said:


> Well everytime I ship birds and think the cost calculated online is correct, with zip codes and everything, it always ends up more and I basically give my birds away  So for now on, when I sell birds, I'm charging $50 shipping for 1-2 birds. Especially if I already have boxes. I'm hoping you are right and it's only about $35 to get them to you.



I not telling a lie. 
I shipped birds several times and I usally ship a bird to two and the price without a box is always around 35-37 dollars.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Here lately ours is everywhere from 32 to 48 dollars.


----------



## atvracinjason

Did I win the race yet?


----------



## JaxRacingLofts

Flapdoodle said:


> I need to pull the plug and GFTG Band offer. My goal to help the club was to get ten sold. I think we may have up to 16 in the loft. Don't hate me...
> If however someone wants to pony up the money for bands on their own without me matching that is still on the table. They are $40 a piece. I could mail them out tomorrow. Just shoot me a PM with shipping info if anyone is interested.


Tom,
I understand how much these races add up. I thought that was a hell of a generous offer on your part. You are definitely going above and beyond supporting this sport especially moving in a dedicated loft for this PT Classic. I believe I will have another set of Yb's I can donate if you have some junior flyers that would like to participate. Just let me know and I will donate a round they can race and keep (I can also pay their entry ). Thanx again.


----------



## HangsLoft

btw your list of "who signed up" and "Rules" link dont work.


----------



## Gnuretiree

I have my shipping box, and I have my fingers crossed I'll have birds on time. Cutting it pretty close here.


----------



## rackerman

*Tom, says he will take them a week or two late. Good luck!*


Gnuretiree said:


> I have my shipping box, and I have my fingers crossed I'll have birds on time. Cutting it pretty close here.


----------



## Big T

When does he want to start getting birds?


----------



## bbcdon

Big T said:


> When does he want to start getting birds?


If I remember correctly, he does not want any birds before march 15.


----------



## eyespyer

HangsLoft said:


> btw your list of "who signed up" and "Rules" link dont work.


still not working - FYI

Need to re post


----------



## blongboy

i think he took it off ..everyone that's in should know they are in cause they got an email..my thought

but i still need the breeding date spreed sheet


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

Big T said:


> When does he want to start getting birds?


march 21st is the first shipping date.


----------



## Crazy Pete

Last yr was pretty tough I'm not sure what to send.
Dave


----------



## Flapdoodle

HangsLoft said:


> btw your list of "who signed up" and "Rules" link dont work.


Last week my google account was hacked by a company in China. I apologize if anyone received email sent from what appeared to be me. In trying to remedy the problem I inadvertently deleted my Google account. I was trying to delete just the email portion. All pictures, google docs, even youtube videos that were linked to the account were deleted. 

I will work on recreating stuff when I get some time. 



bbcdon said:


> If I remember correctly, he does not want any birds before march 15.


March 15 is a good first date the except birds, if you have birds ready you can plan to ship Monday the 14th. 



blongboy said:


> i think he took it off ..everyone that's in should know they are in cause they got an email..my thought
> 
> but i still need the breeding date spreed sheet


the spreadsheet was part of the google account delete issue


----------



## Crazy Pete

Most people that hack a PC do so with the hope of steeling your money, those type of people we could cull.
Dave


----------



## rackerman

*Flap,
Did you have things backed up at all? Do we that are in need to do something? Just wondering if there is anything we can do to help?

*


----------



## dogging_99

Flapdoodle said:


> Last week my google account was hacked by a company in China.


Hey just a thought, you could use http://spideroak.com and setup a share folder, 2GB of space is free!! Backup Cloud Computing, you could edit the spreadsheet on your computer iPad and backup automatically and update the share folder at the same time. Users wouldn't need a Google accn't. Just a link or room and room key you could post here.

https://spideroak.com/download/referral/b569edb99b315386469d74dc538a4594
If you use this link I get free storage credit.


----------



## mtripOH

I am sad to say that we have withdrawn from the race.  Our homers are not laying. Our last hope (a white pair) have abandoned their nest. While Josiah and I are quite bummed we will continue to follow this thread with great interest. Good luck to all!!


----------



## conditionfreak

Banded my two entries yesterday. Band numbers 50 and 100. 

The number 100 is a youngster that I planned on sending the entire time. The other is a replacement pick as the timing will not be right for the second entry I wanted to send.


----------



## conditionfreak

mtripOH said:


> I am sad to say that we have withdrawn from the race.  Our homers are not laying. Our last hope (a white pair) have abandoned their nest. While Josiah and I are quite bummed we will continue to follow this thread with great interest. Good luck to all!!


I had a pair hatch today that are pretty good stuff. If you want, I can send them for you as your entries. Us Buckeyes have to bring this trophy to Ohio. Pennsylvania has had it long enough.


----------



## Feathered Dragons

*Same Boat*



mtripOH said:


> I am sad to say that we have withdrawn from the race.  Our homers are not laying. Our last hope (a white pair) have abandoned their nest. While Josiah and I are quite bummed we will continue to follow this thread with great interest. Good luck to all!!


It looks like I might be in the same boat. If I would have known sooner that they were moving the date up to the 14th I would have been able to get my Go For the Gold bands on a pair. My birds just are not doing anything now. So if anyone needs a pair of Go For the Gold bands let me know right away and I'll get them sent right out to you.


----------



## Alamo

I thought you couldn`t start sending the birds untill March 15th....My eggs will not be hatching for another two weeks...And as far as I know,that`s not a problem with my entries ??? What`s up ?? ...... * Alamo Loft*


----------



## Feathered Dragons

I will have birds I can send but I will not have any that I will be able to get the Go For The Gold bands on. Thats why if anyone can use mine let me know and I'll get them sent out. PM me if you want them.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

I will also have a few extra birds. I can ship two more with mine and Ace's. They would be donations and your entries. I can also band them with your auction bands. Ask Flap if that is ok. Also the birds would be yours at the end if they are still around. Just want everyone to have birds in the race.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

I can send birds for you guys as well, if you'd like. I just need to know by...monday  I'm fixing to band my entries. I know it isn't fair that I would have more of my birds in the race (if someone chooses and is allowed to take my birds as their entries), BUT I don't want people to miss out on the fun.

Do you guys have any generous club members that would give some YBs to you, to send?


----------



## Gnuretiree

It looks like I'll only have one bird to send. I banded it today - IF TORR 101. If anyone has an extra bird, I sure could use it.

Hugh


----------



## hillfamilyloft

I had a PM for my extra two. Let's make sure this is OK with Flap before we get too deep into this. Not much diff to ship 6 over 4 or two. Breeding is always fun. Mine started slow but have 34 slated to hatch this week. Should have enough. Still have a few pairs taking their time.


----------



## Hawk_hunter

Hi everybody! I have two babies that once hatched on Feb 6 and the other on Feb 14. Are they too old to ship at March 21. They are my first babies, and this is the first time I get in a race so I don't have much experience about this. Please give me some advice.
Thank you


----------



## Crazy Pete

hillfamilyloft said:


> I had a PM for my extra two. Let's make sure this is OK with Flap before we get too deep into this. Not much diff to ship 6 over 4 or two. Breeding is always fun. Mine started slow but have 34 slated to hatch this week. Should have enough. Still have a few pairs taking their time.


If you go back to the first post it says only 2 birds per breeder. Some on here may not like it as it gives you an unfair advantage, I think it would be ok as the other birds will be under other peoples names, and I don't expect to win. I just don't think my birds are that good. So I guess it should be up to the other breeders and Flap to say who can do what. 
Dave


----------



## Alamo

HAWK HUNTER...It will OK if you DO NOT let them out to see the outside where they are...Keep them away from windows,and don`t let them out in flypens....Then you can send them...Good Luck !!..............* Alamo Loft*


----------



## MaryOfExeter

The only thing I would be worried about, is they may be a little too strong on the wing when they come out for the first time.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Just offering to help. The birds would not be under my name. They would be property of the other flier. Won't even brag about them if they win.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Also I would send ugly birds so they won't have a chance to win the beauty prize.


----------



## Crazy Pete

hillfamilyloft said:


> Also I would send ugly birds so they won't have a chance to win the beauty prize.


Ugly bird or not if you win I expect more braging than SFL did, I expected a lot more from Warren. lol
Dave


----------



## Alamo

My PT birds hatched yesterday....I hope they like sunny California when they get there...Alamo


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Crazy Pete said:


> Ugly bird or not if you win I expect more braging than SFL did, I expected a lot more from Warren. lol
> Dave


If the birds I band for me win, I might brag a bit. Just funner if more people are involved.


----------



## A_Smith

*banded today*

 Banded my two winners (equal first on the drop LOL) today. If all goes as planned they will be in much warmer California soon. Vanilla Ice didn't lay her second round in time for the race so I had to go to plan B.


----------



## Hawk_hunter

Alamo said:


> HAWK HUNTER...It will OK if you DO NOT let them out to see the outside where they are...Keep them away from windows,and don`t let them out in flypens....Then you can send them...Good Luck !!..............* Alamo Loft*


Thanks Alamo. I'll keep them in until shipping day.

Huy


----------



## conditionfreak

Hawk_hunter said:


> Thanks Alamo. I'll keep them in until shipping day.
> 
> Huy


I don't think that is going to work too well. But I hope it does. Good luck with it.

Maybe I will learn something.


----------



## Crazy Pete

hillfamilyloft I really don't care if you send 20 birds I was just giving you a hard time. If any of your birds win you better brag. There are people here with some fine birds I think winning would be quite an accomplishment. No matter who wins rub it in I can handle it.
Dave


----------



## hillfamilyloft

I am working toward sending my toughest birds. The series is a tough one. Flap what is the distance for the auction race? Would like to get Flap some points towards champion loft. I will only have two birds representing me in the race. I may be sending more, but they are to help those that do not have the funds or the birds for the race. This series a good test for your birds.


----------



## Alamo

Are there any pic`s of the new loft the birds are going to be in yet ?? Love to see them if any !!.......*Alamo Loft*


----------



## Flapdoodle

Alamo said:


> Are there any pic`s of the new loft the birds are going to be in yet ?? Love to see them if any !!.......*Alamo Loft*


Still a work in progress, I wanted to be done but that is the way it goes. I am off three days this week on should be able to get more of the thing put back together. Everyone will have to wait for pictures. 
It is worst case scenario but the first birds shipped may have go into the old loft for a week. 



hillfamilyloft said:


> I am working toward sending my toughest birds. The series is a tough one. Flap what is the distance for the auction race? Would like to get Flap some points towards champion loft. I will only have two birds representing me in the race. I may be sending more, but they are to help those that do not have the funds or the birds for the race. This series a good test for your birds.


The band race is is based on average speed from 170, 250, 300. No auction just the birds need to be banded with GFTG AU Bands to qualify for points. 



Hawk_hunter said:


> Hi everybody! I have two babies that once hatched on Feb 6 and the other on Feb 14. Are they too old to ship at March 21. They are my first babies, and this is the first time I get in a race so I don't have much experience about this. Please give me some advice.
> Thank you


As others have said, there is a greater risk of a flyaway that first time. I should be able to work with these birds.


----------



## Flapdoodle

*When do you plan to ship? Please fill out this form:*

*Form*


----------



## eyespyer

So who is shipping next week?


----------



## dogging_99

I'm Shipping Monday see/download video of my two racers!
both silvers they will be 33 days old. 

RockyMntRaceingPigeonLoft
the Link!
https://spideroak.com/browse/share/cocmaps/RM_RP_Loft

Regards,


----------



## Flapdoodle

I wanted to post this so everyone could see when folks plan to ship. So far it likes like around 70 birds. I am sure we will get some more folks fill out the shipping form.

https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?hl=en&hl=en&key=0AvXp0Jk-p0iTdFhMdjdDdUJHLXVsQS1uVWVxUGRXZWc&single=true&gid=1&output=html

I plan to pox and pmv all the birds. 

Still working on the loft. I am off today and tomorrow (but the rain does not help). I should have one section done by Monday for our first group shipping next week. 

If you did not get it here is the shipping info:

Tom Brasher
330 Grapevine Ravine
Newcastle CA 95658
916-899-9614

Hope all is well. Mike the birds in the video look great!


----------



## conditionfreak

Flapdoodle. My two entries look just great. It could not have worked out better. One looks just like its daddy (my #100 entry last year), and the other looks just like its mommy (the bird you gifted me after last years season ended). I figured if those two parent birds survived your racing season, they would be good for breeding this years entries.

One blue bar and one red check.

P.S. I am counting on you to take better care of my two entries, than you do the other entries (shhh...no one else needs to know about the special treatment you are going to give my birds, which are, in a way, grandchildren of yours). (don't forget about the small TV for them, on their perches, and their daily spanish peanuts) 




ha ha ha ha


----------



## Alamo

CONDIONFREAK....NO *red checks *allowed in this race !!! Unless your name is ALAMO !!! hahahahahahaha!!!!! Good Luck......Alamo


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

I'm tempted to send a pair of nest mates because I think they will do really well. Do you guys think that's a good idea?


----------



## conditionfreak

I wish I could send three entries.

That way I could have team Red, White and Blue.

That would be a great One Loft Race entry format. Each participant had to enter one red, one white and one blue racing pigeon. It could be called the U.S. Flag Race.


----------



## atvracinjason

I've been staring at my options and wondering who goes where.


----------



## ace in the hole

My entries this year will be shipped from the Hillfamilyloft out of some of my stock. I just talked with Randy last night about what birds to band for this race. I hope we made the right choice.


----------



## conditionfreak

There is luck involved in every pigeon race. Especially in a series of races.

Just too many things that can go wrong, from handler to weather, plus hazards (wires, etc) to predator birds.

You take your best shot and hope for success. Odds increase a little, if your birds are from very good breeders. Odds increase even more than a little if your entries are from excellent breeders.

But excellent young sometimes don't return, and sometimes average bred birds win.

So....bottom line is, everyone has a chance if they have a bird in the race. A 90% white bird could even win (wink, wink, Warren).

Sort of like poker. All you need is a chip and a chair. 

Lots of chips is better though, of course.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

ace in the hole said:


> My entries this year will be shipped from the Hillfamilyloft out of some of my stock. I just talked with Randy last night about what birds to band for this race. I hope we made the right choice.


Both of Ace's birds have been banded. 
One is out of LL 329 a brother of my second high points bird in 09 x a hen out of his 801 Houben and a hen from Smith Family loft. 
The second is out of my Primavera hen equal 1st 250 this years young birds. She is also out of his 801 blood. 
Still contemplating my bandings. Will make the decision in the next couple of days. I had a few clear eggs my first round and a few of these pairs I wanted to send babies off of. Probably send one off my daughter of Buzz who has bred me 3rd in our 300mile futurity. She does have a new mate this year though. The other pair I am thinking about gave me a 4th, 20th, and 24th in last years young birds. They bred two birds last year and both were top 10% birds.


----------



## JaxRacingLofts

Flapdoodle said:


> I wanted to post this so everyone could see when folks plan to ship. So far it likes like around 70 birds. I am sure we will get some more folks fill out the shipping form.
> 
> https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?hl=en&hl=en&key=0AvXp0Jk-p0iTdFhMdjdDdUJHLXVsQS1uVWVxUGRXZWc&single=true&gid=1&output=html
> 
> I plan to pox and pmv all the birds.
> 
> Still working on the loft. I am off today and tomorrow (but the rain does not help). I should have one section done by Monday for our first group shipping next week.
> 
> If you did not get it here is the shipping info:
> 
> Tom Brasher
> 330 Grapevine Ravine
> Newcastle CA 95658
> 916-899-9614
> 
> Hope all is well. Mike the birds in the video look great!


Tom,
I replied with Mar 28th as my expected ship date but if the loft is ready I can send my entries tomorrow 3-14. I have 2 ybs both between 30-40 days old that I believe can do well in this race. 

If you prefer that I keep the Mar 28th shipping date I will have 2 nestmates ready (The parents both raced in the Dixie Cup Futurity) Just let me know before noon tommorow (your time) what works out better for you. Thanx.
Chris


----------



## Eriduardo

My two entries are between 30-45 days old and are already on a light moult, they have dropped their first flight feather. & i'm wondering if they will be too old or to hard to settle. Do you think I will have to send a younger set of young birds for the race?


----------



## drifter

Flapdoodle said:


> Still a work in progress, I wanted to be done but that is the way it goes. I am off three days this week on should be able to get more of the thing put back together. Everyone will have to wait for pictures.
> It is worst case scenario but the first birds shipped may have go into the old loft for a week.
> 
> 
> 
> The band race is is based on average speed from 170, 250, 300. No auction just the birds need to be banded with GFTG AU Bands to qualify for points.
> 
> 
> 
> As others have said, there is a greater risk of a flyaway that first time. I should be able to work with these birds.


Can someone tell me what GFTG stands for, my AU bands come from Foys and they do not have GFTG stamped on them. I am not a member of a pigeon club.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

GFTG stands for "Go For The Gold". It's a band race that they are having up there. AU bands can be customized to say pretty much whatever. If you got them from Foys, then they will say FOYS. All the clubs have different letters for the initials of their club name. 
You only need GFTG bands if you want to enter that race as well (sort of like two races in one).


----------



## drifter

So if I wanted to enter this race I would have to use the GFTG bands. Where would you buy these bands. Next year I might would like to enter this race, but not this year.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

You'd have to contact Tom for that  He was selling some but I believe he's out now.


----------



## Flapdoodle

jAxTecH said:


> Tom,
> I replied with Mar 28th as my expected ship date but if the loft is ready I can send my entries tomorrow 3-14. I have 2 ybs both between 30-40 days old that I believe can do well in this race.
> 
> If you prefer that I keep the Mar 28th shipping date I will have 2 nestmates ready (The parents both raced in the Dixie Cup Futurity) Just let me know before noon tommorow (your time) what works out better for you. Thanx.
> Chris


The loft will be ready (at least one section) for birds this week. I will work on getting pictures together. Please let me know after birds ship the tracking number. No matter when you ship please do so on a Monday early in the week. After you ship please send me an email to let me know so I will expect a call form the post office... [email protected]



Eriduardo said:


> My two entries are between 30-45 days old and are already on a light moult, they have dropped their first flight feather. & i'm wondering if they will be too old or to hard to settle. Do you think I will have to send a younger set of young birds for the race?


Have the birds been out of the loft with access to a settling cage? Have they flown off the landing board up on to the roof of the loft? Any flying away from and back to your loft? All of these make it a little more difficult (but not impossible) to settle the bird here. I will leave that up to you. Even with a little older bird that has been out I think I can settle them. The older the bird is the greater the chance of a fly away. 



grifter said:


> So if I wanted to enter this race I would have to use the GFTG bands. Where would you buy these bands. Next year I might would like to enter this race, but not this year.


If you are asking about this race meaning the The Pigeon Talk Classic you do not need GFTG bands. For the PT Classic any AU or IF 2011 band will work. The Go For the Gold Race is a race the club is doing in conjunction with the race series the PT birds are racing. Bands for the GFTG race are $40 each. The bird with the best average speed from three of the YB races takes the prize.


----------



## Eriduardo

My Birds have not been out yet. Will send them today. No, no I will not be able to send them today. I do not have your shipping info.


----------



## JaxRacingLofts

Flapdoodle said:


> If you did not get it here is the shipping info:
> 
> Tom Brasher
> 330 Grapevine Ravine
> Newcastle CA 95658
> 916-899-9614


Here it is..kind of easy to get lost in a thread that is over 38 pages


----------



## jpsnapdy

jAxTecH said:


> Here it is..kind of easy to get lost in a thread that is over 38 pages


 39! as I am reading it.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Banded my GFTG birds today. GFTG 107 and GFTG 108. 107 is off a brother to my 250 winner this year x a daughter of Buzz. She bred my best young bird in 08 and 3rd in our club futurity. 108 is off of a pair that bred my 4th, 20th, and 24th last year from two babies. Both scored points. The sire is a brother of my second high points bird in 09 and a daughter of my 1311 futurity winner. Hopefully they will be solid. A few pairs I wanted to send did not fill their first eggs this year. I think due to extreme cold but I think these will make a showing.


----------



## Alamo

Where can I find the ending results from 2010 ?? Like to see how competitive it was at the end......Alamo


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

Has anyone shipped yet? Mine are going out next week hopefully.


----------



## eyespyer

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> Has anyone shipped yet? Mine are going out next week hopefully.


Yes, he has my birds now.


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

eyespyer said:


> Yes, he has my birds now.


How old were yours when you shipped them out? Mine will be about 30 days this weekend but they might not be ready they haven't been eating by themselves yet.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Mine will be ready in a couple weeks!


----------



## JaxRacingLofts

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> How old were yours when you shipped them out? Mine will be about 30 days this weekend but they might not be ready they haven't been eating by themselves yet.


Henry,
Here is the tracking info on mine:

Delivered, March 17, 2011, 8:59 am, NEWCASTLE, CA 95658 
Notice Left (No Authorized Recipient Available), March 17, 2011, 8:51 am, NEWCASTLE, CA 95658 
Arrival at Post Office, March 17, 2011, 8:45 am, NEWCASTLE, CA 95658 
Processed through Sort Facility, March 17, 2011, 6:41 am, WEST SACRAMENTO, CA 95799 
Processed through Sort Facility, March 16, 2011, 5:56 am, JACKSONVILLE, FL 32218 
Processed through Sort Facility, March 14, 2011, 11:56 pm, JACKSONVILLE, FL 32203 
Acceptance, March 14, 2011, 5:29 pm, JACKSONVILLE, FL 32244 

My ybs were shipped Monday after work and did not even leave the Jacksonville Post Office until Wednesday. Needless to say I wished I had waited another week to let them build up more of their strength before making them go 3 days without food and water. I doubt you will have any problems shipping in California but for the people on the East Coast this is something to consider.


----------



## Gnuretiree

That is disgraceful service in Jacksonville. I am used to better service than that. My local Post Office advised me to bring the birds in late in the day, as they'd sit there all day waiting for a truck to leave.


----------



## JaxRacingLofts

Gnuretiree said:


> That is disgraceful service in Jacksonville. I am used to better service than that. My local Post Office advised me to bring the birds in late in the day, as they'd sit there all day waiting for a truck to leave.


I took them to the main branch thinking they would get expedited shipping plus the main is open until 6pm. What can you do other then make sure their crops are full before shipping?


----------



## Alamo

The PO has OVERNIGHT delivery...You have to ask,and pay for it.....Did you ask ??.....Alamo

PS:If it takes 3 or 4 days to get my birds to Calif,I WILL NOT BE SENDING any birds.,...Alamo


----------



## drifter

During the last year and a half I've ordered several birds, they always arrive at my post-office the very next morning after they were shipped.


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

jAxTecH said:


> Henry,
> Here is the tracking info on mine:
> 
> Delivered, March 17, 2011, 8:59 am, NEWCASTLE, CA 95658
> Notice Left (No Authorized Recipient Available), March 17, 2011, 8:51 am, NEWCASTLE, CA 95658
> Arrival at Post Office, March 17, 2011, 8:45 am, NEWCASTLE, CA 95658
> Processed through Sort Facility, March 17, 2011, 6:41 am, WEST SACRAMENTO, CA 95799
> Processed through Sort Facility, March 16, 2011, 5:56 am, JACKSONVILLE, FL 32218
> Processed through Sort Facility, March 14, 2011, 11:56 pm, JACKSONVILLE, FL 32203
> Acceptance, March 14, 2011, 5:29 pm, JACKSONVILLE, FL 32244
> 
> My ybs were shipped Monday after work and did not even leave the Jacksonville Post Office until Wednesday. Needless to say I wished I had waited another week to let them build up more of their strength before making them go 3 days without food and water. I doubt you will have any problems shipping in California but for the people on the East Coast this is something to consider.


Yeah, I just checked on them this morning and I think they'll be ready to ship on Monday. I'm not too worried about the shipping part as much as them being being able to eat properly when they arrive.


----------



## drifter

I've only read a few of the posts from this thread, so I don't really fully know what the rules are. My question is this, wouldn't it be better to send older 2011 birds to this race. It seems to me that the older and stronger these young birds are the better chance they would have of winning. Thanks for any info. anyone can give me.


----------



## JaxRacingLofts

Alamo said:


> The PO has OVERNIGHT delivery...You have to ask,and pay for it.....Did you ask ??.....Alamo
> 
> PS:If it takes 3 or 4 days to get my birds to Calif,I WILL NOT BE SENDING any birds.,...Alamo


My take from the explanation I was given from the post office was "*No Later Then 3 pm Wednesday*" If I had known they were going to be stuck in the corner of the post office 
I would not have shipped them last Monday either. Instead give them an extra week..but he said between 30-40 days old and I was worried my older entry would start to imprint and make settling harder. 

Yes, I tried to ship them Express Mail Next Day Air with delivery guaranteed by 3 pm their time.
The post office would not guarantee shipping to his location by Tuesday 3pm instead Wednesday 3pm. 
The lady at the post office explained it was because he is in Zone 8 and live birds do not ship with bulk cargo. (they still charged me $44.70 Next Day Air rate instead of a 2 day rate)

I should add that Tom sent me a confirmation email stating that the yb's are OK. He gave them water and they dunked their heads in the drinker so I'm confident now they should recover fine.


----------



## rackerman

*My whites 1st egg hatched today!! I just need the 2nd one to hatch and I am off to the race..... 
I wish I could send my best pairs young, but they just laid the other day and I don't know if Tom will wait for them? I wish he would!! I would send them if he will wait an extra week or so. (What do you think Tom)?.......
Brc1's birds birds are on eggs right now and as long as they hatch, they will go with mine.*


----------



## kbraden

Not to complain or anything, but I am questioning the birds that are being sent to the race. Some of you are sending birds already that are 45 days old? While others are just now hatching, so won't be shipped til late April? Seems there is a huge difference in ages here. On the original rules, page 1, post 1, it stated:

*"Have birds shipped to me around 30 days old.
Birds accepted anytime the weeks of March 21, 28, April 4, or 11."*

So, my question is what is the cut-off on when birds can be sent and the age limit? Heck, I may as well hatch some more eggs and send some clear into May at this rate!


----------



## blongboy

kbraden said:


> Not to complain or anything, but I am questioning the birds that are being sent to the race. Some of you are sending birds already that are 45 days old? While others are just now hatching, so won't be shipped til late April? Seems there is a huge difference in ages here. On the original rules, page 1, post 1, it stated:
> 
> *"Have birds shipped to me around 30 days old.
> Birds accepted anytime the weeks of March 21, 28, April 4, or 11."*
> 
> So, my question is what is the cut-off on when birds can be sent and the age limit? Heck, I may as well hatch some more eggs and send some clear into May at this rate!


i don't know think 1 month and a few weeks apart would make a big different

just my thought


----------



## blongboy

blongboy said:


> i don't know think 1 month and a few weeks apart would make a big different
> 
> just my thought


mine are going the 11 of April....i think they would do GREAT!
75%black diamond and 25% Fabry!!!


----------



## Matt Bell

kbraden said:


> Not to complain or anything, but I am questioning the birds that are being sent to the race. Some of you are sending birds already that are 45 days old? While others are just now hatching, so won't be shipped til late April? Seems there is a huge difference in ages here. On the original rules, page 1, post 1, it stated:
> 
> *"Have birds shipped to me around 30 days old.
> Birds accepted anytime the weeks of March 21, 28, April 4, or 11."*
> 
> So, my question is what is the cut-off on when birds can be sent and the age limit? Heck, I may as well hatch some more eggs and send some clear into May at this rate!



Age of the bird is only important for settling issues/imprinting to the loft. As far as the racing goes, I have seen birds hatched in June win youngbird races, same as birds that are hatched in late December to be banded January 1. Not a big deal for the competition really.


----------



## bbcdon

Alamo said:


> The PO has OVERNIGHT delivery...You have to ask,and pay for it.....Did you ask ??.....Alamo
> 
> PS:If it takes 3 or 4 days to get my birds to Calif,I WILL NOT BE SENDING any birds.,...Alamo


Express is the only service they offer for live animals. The above mishap was a PO screwup, probably on the local level.


----------



## bbcdon

When I ship birds from here, it is always on monday morning, and they are usually delivered on wednesday morning. I live in the central valley in CA, and they are routed to Bakersfield, then Santa Clarita, then either LAX or BUR airport for the ride east. When I have received birds from the east, they are usually delivered the next day.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Some POs are good, some are crappy. Mine is wonderful  I guess it depends on the experience it has had with shipping birds. Mine always get where they are going on time, and usually earlier than I expect. We always ship ours first thing in the morning.


----------



## Flapdoodle

Alamo said:


> Where can I find the ending results from 2010 ?? Like to see how competitive it was at the end......Alamo


I don't have any results saved, All of the races however are up on the AU website. http://pigeon-ndb.com/race_reports.php?TypeReport=WEEKLY_REPORT_QUERY&season=2010yb I fly with the Auburn Club and Camellia City Combine.

I am sure you can check the 2010 race thread for some results as well. Look for posts that are after the last week in August.

All the stuff I had was stored online and deleted with the google account.



g0ldenb0y55 said:


> Has anyone shipped yet? Mine are going out next week hopefully.


We have 12 birds, they are all doing great, eating and drinking fine. 



grifter said:


> I've only read a few of the posts from this thread, so I don't really fully know what the rules are. My question is this, wouldn't it be better to send older 2011 birds to this race. It seems to me that the older and stronger these young birds are the better chance they would have of winning. Thanks for any info. anyone can give me.


See Matt Bell's comments, it all has to do with settling birds. The younger the better provided they are eating on their own. The only thing I would add for anyone racing at the club and combine level (as we are), it is better to get all your birds in the loft and flying as quickly as possible. Once your birds are up and routing and you add new younger birds they hold the group back a little. 



kbraden said:


> Not to complain or anything, but I am questioning the birds that are being sent to the race. Some of you are sending birds already that are 45 days old? While others are just now hatching, so won't be shipped til late April? Seems there is a huge difference in ages here. On the original rules, page 1, post 1, it stated:
> 
> *"Have birds shipped to me around 30 days old.
> Birds accepted anytime the weeks of March 21, 28, April 4, or 11."*
> 
> So, my question is what is the cut-off on when birds can be sent and the age limit? Heck, I may as well hatch some more eggs and send some clear into May at this rate!


As close to that window as possible makes my job easier. With multiple loft sections I have the availability to easily separate different groups. If someone is having problems pairing birds or clear eggs I want to give the option to ship later if needed. I would like to keep that case by case outside the forum either email or pm. The idea is this is for fun and I want everyone that cares to participate get in the game.


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

Thanks for the update Flap. Mine will be going out this afternoon.


----------



## Alamo

FLAPDOODLE.....Seen some of the results from last year...Really Cool !! But....I have a question....Shipping limit 20 birds...If you get say 50 PT members send you 100 birds,you can only ship 20 each week.....Am I wrong ??...And If I`m right,you can`t ship all 100 birds to the same race....My thought would be...Send all 100 to 4 or 5 races together...That way,if it`s a fast race,they ALL are flying that day in a fast race..Or..If it`s a HEADWIND race,they ALL are fying into the wind that day....I don`t know how you are going to get ALL the birds flying in the SAME DAY RACE,when there is a LIMIT on shipping...Please explain the system that will be used...Thanks....Alamo


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

Flapdoodle said:


> You are correct. I will do what I can to put together a test race with a couple of other flyers the week before the first race. Let's say I have 80 birds at that point. I will take the first 40 birds clocked from the test race or training toss and enter them in the 1st race. 1st bird in the A race, 2nd in the B race, 3rd in the A race, 4th in the B race... Go down the list until we have 40 birds, all the others will be sent as trainers and released half hour after the B race.
> 
> I will take the results from the A and B race as well as the trapping order from those sent as trainers and decide who to send in the next race. If a bird was sent in one of the races but trapped late he will be a trainer the next week and I will move those that were first among the trainers up to fill spots in the A or B race. We could have a bird go to all the races as a trainer and never entered. We could have a bird win the first race, trap late the second race, and be moved to the trainers the rest of the race series. If a bird shows me something I will race him. It is within my best interest to race the best birds and that is what I plan on doing. I will post everything on line and make it all as transparent as I can.
> 
> Not as good as a regular one loft race, but by the end we will know which are the best birds.


@ Alamo - This was on page fourteen of this thread.


----------



## Alamo

Well,I have birds that KICK A$$,in headwind and slower speed races,which they do...This family of birds is NOT for races of 1500 ypm and higher....It seems like my birds will always be trainers then...So they will have no chance to win points...I`ll give you a VG example in Auction Races here...When in two headwind races,my YB`s have a 2nd place in one race,a couple of years ago,and a 4th place last year losing the race by 1 min 33 sec.....When the races are real fast,I eat a good lunch,and take a nap....Alamo


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Alamo said:


> Well,I have birds that KICK A$$,in headwind and slower speed races,which they do...This family of birds is NOT for races of 1500 ypm and higher....It seems like my birds will always be trainers then...So they will have no chance to win points...I`ll give you a VG example in Auction Races here...When in two headwind races,my YB`s have a 2nd place in one race,a couple of years ago,and a 4th place last year losing the race by 1 min 33 sec.....When the races are real fast,I eat a good lunch,and take a nap....Alamo


I think I would get a speed family to complement your head wind birds. Then you could do well in all the races. You would get less naps though.


----------



## bbcdon

My two are on their way to you Tom!


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

bbcdon said:


> My two are on their way to you Tom!


Mine are on their way also! We'll see how they stack up.


----------



## Flapdoodle

Alamo said:


> Well,I have birds that KICK A$$,in headwind and slower speed races,which they do...This family of birds is NOT for races of 1500 ypm and higher....It seems like my birds will always be trainers then...So they will have no chance to win points...I`ll give you a VG example in Auction Races here...When in two headwind races,my YB`s have a 2nd place in one race,a couple of years ago,and a 4th place last year losing the race by 1 min 33 sec.....When the races are real fast,I eat a good lunch,and take a nap....Alamo


Races over 1500 ypm? Do the birds really fly that fast?  I pulled the results for the winning bird of the A race the past three years, only one race and only one bird was over 1500 in 24 races. 

2008: 1240,1473,1435,1155,1295,1322,1507,1251
2009: 1329,1292,1164,1422,1155,1226,1155,1470
2010: 1146,1184,1425,1292,1278,1281,1453,1206

The races are flown through the Nevada desert and over the Sierras. The weather (wind) is unpredictable the birds can have a head wind on one side of the mountains and a tail wind on the other. Last year we had two races where the winning bird was over 1400. It seemed like all the races were tough. High temps with high wind. By the end of a very tough series the best birds will be evident. If your family does well in tough slow races they may be just what we need.


----------



## Pigeon0446

Flapdoodle said:


> Races over 1500 ypm? Do the birds really fly that fast?  I pulled the results for the winning bird of the A race the past three years, only one race and only one bird was over 1500 in 24 races.
> 
> 2008: 1240,1473,1435,1155,1295,1322,1507,1251
> 2009: 1329,1292,1164,1422,1155,1226,1155,1470
> 2010: 1146,1184,1425,1292,1278,1281,1453,1206
> 
> The races are flown through the Nevada desert and over the Sierras. The weather (wind) is unpredictable the birds can have a head wind on one side of the mountains and a tail wind on the other. Last year we had two races where the winning bird was over 1400. It seemed like all the races were tough. High temps with high wind. By the end of a very tough series the best birds will be evident. If your family does well in tough slow races they may be just what we need.


Shows how different our courses are here our average speed for the 10 race season is almost always over 1500ypm. With the fastest race being the 2274ypm 250 I won last year. It's so amazing a bird flying over 77mph for a lil over 3 hours.


----------



## Alamo

FLAPDOODLE:Those are race speeds I like.....I really can`t beleive it....I would have thought in Calif,most of the races would be 1500 ypm, and well above that speed..I`m really surprised at those results...I wonder If I can get my wife to move ?? hahahaha !! Alamo


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

USPS tracking says my birds are out for delivery.

Waiting on Tom for confirmation.


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

Got an email from Tom yesterday saying the birds are doing good. Good luck everyone!


----------



## A_Smith

*My 2 checkers*

My two winners will be on there way to warmer weather tomorrow AM (3-28-11) I still have ice on my landing board here.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Mine will be ready to go by next monday!


----------



## blongboy

MaryOfExeter said:


> Mine will be ready to go by next monday!


lucky you ...your youngs will be 2 week ahead of mine


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

Hopefully we get to see pictures or video of the birds soon!


----------



## conditionfreak

Shipped my birds today. From lower Ohio to Californication, er, ah, I mean California. It was $49.70.

Funny thing was, that at the same time I was at the post office waiting in line to ship my birds, there was a middle aged couple shipping 20 roosters in individual boxes. The postal authorities brought out another worker to handle my box, so I did not have to wait behind the twenty boxes being shipped. I appreciated that!

Yep, you read that right. Twenty roosters in individual boxes. I didn't ask if they were fighting roosters but I suspected it. They were cockadoodledooing a lot.  Makes sense that they would be in individual boxes though, as roosters do not get along together well at all.

I overheard the lady of the couple, telling the post office worker that she just purchased a pair of the smallest chickens in the world. She said that the eggs were the size of quarters and that the babies were the size of AAA batteries (didn't really understand that analogy though). She said she found them on the interenet and they are really cute. But she said they can not be kept outdoors as they need constant heat.

Sounds intriguing and I am going to do some web checking to find out about them

Anyway, my birds are on the way to sunny Californication....Oops, there I go again. I meant sunny California, (is it still there or did it fall into the ocean yet?).


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

Red Hot Chili Peppers fan? Lol

Nope Cali is still on the map....for now at least! lol


----------



## Flapdoodle

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> Hopefully we get to see pictures or video of the birds soon!


The forecast is sunny all week. After everything dries out a little I hope to get some paint on the loft. I am really excited to show you all how it turned out. I ended up with four sections plus a feed room. We currently have 16 birds with another 6 coming in this week. 

I am having a hard time figuring out how to get my sony handicam to talk to the new computer (Mac). The software that came with the camera is not compatible. I may have to pull out an old lap top to get some video up on youtube. I promise paint or not to have some video up by the end of the week.


----------



## conditionfreak

Flapdoodle, did my birds arrive alright? Should have arrived today (Wednesday).


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

*Thumbs Up!*



Flapdoodle said:


> The forecast is sunny all week. After everything dries out a little I hope to get some paint on the loft. I am really excited to show you all how it turned out. I ended up with four sections plus a feed room. We currently have 16 birds with another 6 coming in this week.
> 
> I am having a hard time figuring out how to get my sony handicam to talk to the new computer (Mac). The software that came with the camera is not compatible. I may have to pull out an old lap top to get some video up on youtube. I promise paint or not to have some video up by the end of the week.


The weather should remain clear all week from the forecast....

I would get the old laptop out already and fiddle with the Mac later!


----------



## Thunderbird Racing

I sent my birds yesterday, they should be in sunny Cali. tomorrow!


----------



## A_Smith

conditionfreak said:


> Flapdoodle, did my birds arrive alright? Should have arrived today (Wednesday).


Mine should of arrived today too.


----------



## Flapdoodle

*First loft section will be full by the end of the week!!*

We have 22 great looking birds from:

Eriduardo
eyespyer
Beaverbandit
dogging_99
jAxTecH
g0ldenb0y55
bbcdon
JHoll
A_Smith
conditionfreak
and Huy Doan (What is your forum name?)

I will add another six birds tomorrow. Thunderbird Racing, flapdoodle, and a pair of local birds. I will have another four local birds at a later date. Of the three pair of local birds jpsnapdy (from India) has paid his entry fee and gets first pick. The other two pair will be up for grabs if anyone else who has not already made other arrangements wants to participate. 

The paint might not happen. I was hoping to take off work Friday but that does not look like it is going to happen. Regardless I will get some video up. Hope everyone else is doing great!!


----------



## Flapdoodle

conditionfreak said:


> Flapdoodle, did my birds arrive alright? Should have arrived today (Wednesday).





A_Smith said:


> Mine should of arrived today too.


Sorry guys for not emailing earlier. I have been buried all day. I did pick up your birds this morning. All four of them look great!


----------



## Hawk_hunter

Huy Doan is me, Hawk_hunter.


----------



## jpsnapdy

Flapdoodle said:


> We have 22 great looking birds from:
> 
> Eriduardo
> eyespyer
> Beaverbandit
> dogging_99
> jAxTecH
> g0ldenb0y55
> bbcdon
> JHoll
> A_Smith
> conditionfreak
> and Huy Doan (What is your forum name?)
> 
> I will add another six birds tomorrow. Thunderbird Racing, flapdoodle, and a pair of local birds. I will have another four local birds at a later date. Of the three pair of local birds jpsnapdy (from India) has paid his entry fee and gets first pick. The other two pair will be up for grabs if anyone else who has not already made other arrangements wants to participate.
> 
> The paint might not happen. I was hoping to take off work Friday but that does not look like it is going to happen. Regardless I will get some video up. Hope everyone else is doing great!!


Thank you for the aknowledgement Flapdoodle, I was watching my mail box and PMs on PT frantically. Hope all goes well! Please tell me the ring numbers and birds colours, this is going to be fun!


----------



## hillfamilyloft

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f14/thanks-to-randy-of-hillfamilyloft-51331-2.html#post558790

Posted some pics of Josepe's and Mark's entries. Will ship Monday the 11th.


----------



## Flapdoodle

*Still not ready for a loft unveil...*

A couple of teaser pictures...


----------



## Flapdoodle

*A few of the birds...*




























Standing in the food is not ideal. Another couple of days with the open container then just the covered trough feeders.

They are starting to figure out that they like it when I come to the loft because I bring the food.

I don't really care for the wire floor underneath the perches. I need to rig up a droppings box or something. Checking droppings has been engrained into my husbandry of the birds. Tough to do with the wire floor...


----------



## JaxRacingLofts

Wow...all of those ybs entries look great. This race is going to be fun because it could be anyones to win.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Can someone PM me Tom's address and phone number so I can ship them tomorrow? I'm too tired to go fishing through the thread.


----------



## blongboy

MaryOfExeter said:


> Can someone PM me Tom's address and phone number so I can ship them tomorrow? I'm too tired to go fishing through the thread.


here you go Becky

Shipping Info:
Tom Brasher
330 Grapevine Ravine
Newcastle, CA 95658
Home 916-408-2790
Cell 916-899-9614

got it from my email


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Thank you!


----------



## blongboy

i don't get it ..mine are 1 week till 30 days but mine don't even look like those yet...


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Got any pictures of yours?  They go through a bit of a growth spurt after they are weaned. That may be why they don't look like that yet. Plus I'm sure those are a little older by now.

I'm sending a red bar and a blue check. The blue check is out of a cockbird that George said may be split for reduced. Not sure, but this little girl (hopefully) looks just like her daddy. Beautiful color. Tom will see what I mean when he gets'em


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

blongboy said:


> i don't get it ..mine are 1 week till 30 days but mine don't even look like those yet...


Yeah, the birds there are about 2-3 weeks older than 30 days now. 

@ Tom - Thanks for the teaser pictures! I thought I saw 2 great looking birds in that bunch!


----------



## bloodlines_365

Guys!!! Ooh man, Mined still two weeks old, what's the last shipping dates? I'll be sending some whites...


----------



## Gnuretiree

I'll be sending next Monday.....


----------



## blongboy

this is them ...not a clear picture but you should get the idea
they should be going next week ...as plan let see


----------



## blongboy

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> Yeah, the birds there are about 2-3 weeks older than 30 days now.


yea maybe that why


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Cute babies  They should be just fine shipping out next monday. Mine are in the car waiting to go to the PO.


----------



## Flapdoodle

MaryOfExeter said:


> Cute babies  They should be just fine shipping out next monday. Mine are in the car waiting to go to the PO.


I wanted to mail shipping $ money out to you. Your entry fee and shipping have been covered by a few generous donations from forum members. I will get a reimbursement check out to you...


----------



## Flapdoodle

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> Yeah, the birds there are about 2-3 weeks older than 30 days now.
> 
> @ Tom - Thanks for the teaser pictures! I thought I saw 2 great looking birds in that bunch!


Some of the birds received are a few weeks older then 30 days. Some had already dropped their first flight. I would rather have them a little older then not old enough. As long as they are eating and drinking on their own they should be fine. For the most part the post office has been great. We did have some birds ship Monday and not get in until Friday... They are fine but the added stress can't be good...



bloodlines_365 said:


> Guys!!! Ooh man, Mined still two weeks old, what's the last shipping dates? I'll be sending some whites...


I will take birds the week of May 8th, that will be the last week. *I am out of town May 4-7 so no birds the week of May 2. *


----------



## rackerman

*I will be shipping my birds the end of this month and no later than May 9th.
Boy, it's been hard to get babies so early in Northern Michigan. My birds that laid, only had one of two eggs hatch. I am thinking the reason is because it has been so cold and they don't start laying on the eggs till the 2nd egg is laid? Does that make sense? Anyway, I will be sending my 2 birds & 2 for Bcr1!!*


----------



## Flapdoodle

*Shipping Window*

I am racing in a triathlon May 7. It would work out the best for me if we postponed shipping the last week in April and the first week in May. Please no birds shipped the week of April 24 and May 1. That way I can make sure all the birds are adjusted and in the loft before I leave. I will turn the reigns over to one of the members of my club for a few days while I am away. I don't want him to have to make post office runs.


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

blongboy said:


> this is them ...not a clear picture but you should get the idea
> they should be going next week ...as plan let see


How did I know you'll be sending blacks! 

Nice youngsters, good luck with them!


----------



## Gnuretiree

Is there a way to pay the entry fee using PayPal? Would that be easier for you than mailing a check?


----------



## Crazy Pete

I was just going to put a $20 in a envelope taped in the shiping box. I hope you are ok with that.
Dave


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

Crazy Pete said:


> I was just going to put a $20 in a envelope taped in the shiping box. I hope you are ok with that.
> Dave


That's what I did! Tom didn't seem to mind it.


----------



## blongboy

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> How did I know you'll be sending blacks!
> 
> Nice youngsters, good luck with them!


...lol i just like the blacks!!!


----------



## hillfamilyloft

You guys and your color birds. Hey thats what Warren did last year and look what happened.


----------



## Flapdoodle

Gnuretiree said:


> Is there a way to pay the entry fee using PayPal? Would that be easier for you than mailing a check?


paypal works.... or $20 in the box.... for paypal use [email protected]

please be sure to write your name and forum name when you use paypal so i can keep everyone straight. It ends up costing me a buck and some change when using paypal... if you can round up a little that helps...


----------



## JaxRacingLofts

Flapdoodle said:


> paypal works.... or $20 in the box.... for paypal use [email protected]
> 
> please be sure to write your name and forum name when you use paypal so i can keep everyone straight. It ends up costing me a buck and some change when using paypal... if you can round up a little that helps...


If you want the person to get the full amount your sending via Paypal make sure you send it as a Gift..then paypal does not take out any handling charges. 
When I shipped mine I slipped the cash into a envelope and taped it to the inside of the shipping box. I think cash would be easier for Flap..I hope this helps.


----------



## JaxRacingLofts

hillfamilyloft said:


> You guys and your color birds. Hey thats what Warren did last year and look what happened.


That gave me a chuckle..if Warren's bird was called "Vanilla Ice" then I am calling mine *Kid Rock*


----------



## conditionfreak

Flapdoodle said:


> paypal works.... or $20 in the box.... for paypal use [email protected]
> 
> please be sure to write your name and forum name when you use paypal so i can keep everyone straight. It ends up costing me a buck and some change when using paypal... if you can round up a little that helps...


When using PayPal, you should use what is called the "personal method". Then there are no fees charged to either the sender nor the recipient. The only bad thing about it is that if you were buying something, you lose your "protection" that PayPal provides in case of fraud. So, never use the "personal" method of payment when buying somewhere like Ebay.

But since you are not buying something with this entry fee payments, all is good. Just use the "personal" method and either pick "gift" or "money owed".

The "personal" method tab is just below where you type in the amount you want to send. It is really easy.


----------



## eyespyer

conditionfreak said:


> When using PayPal, you should use what is called the "personal method". Then there are no fees charged to either the sender nor the recipient. The only bad thing about it is that if you were buying something, you lose your "protection" that PayPal provides in case of fraud. So, never use the "personal" method of payment when buying somewhere like Ebay.
> 
> But since you are not buying something with this entry fee payments, all is good. Just use the "personal" method and either pick "gift" or "money owed".
> 
> The "personal" method tab is just below where you type in the amount you want to send. It is really easy.


I sent $22.00 and got charged $0.94 total $22.94 I added the $2.00 just in case he had a fee in his side. 

Good luck to all, it is going to be fun to see what my birds will do.


----------



## Flapdoodle

Flapdoodle said:


> .....
> 
> Eriduardo
> eyespyer
> Beaverbandit
> dogging_99
> jAxTecH
> g0ldenb0y55
> bbcdon
> JHoll
> A_Smith
> conditionfreak
> Hawk_hunter
> Thunderbird Racing
> jpsnapdy
> flapdoodle
> ...


We need to add a few names to the list. We received ten great looking birds today from:

fresnobirdman
pigeonnewb
dstephenson
MaryOfExeter
mytripOH


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

That's awesome! Good luck to everyone!


----------



## Crazy Pete

Think I could send mine out today?
Dave


----------



## Big T

Crazy Pete said:


> Think I could send mine out today?
> Dave


Best to mail on Mondays, This way the birds do not get stuck somewhere in route over a weekend. Too long without water.

Tony


----------



## Crazy Pete

Then its a good thing I decided to wait, thanks.
Dave


----------



## blongboy

mine are going this Monday!!


----------



## SouthTown Racers

If my birds show me that they will eat and drink over the weekend, then mine will be in the mail come Monday as well!!


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Mine will also go monday. I have one that is a bit young but he is down and looking good. Sometimes I think it just as good to get them at that weaning period, where they pick at grains but are still pumped by the parents. A full crop before shipping is a good thing. If they have found the food, they should be just fine when a little hungry.


----------



## SouthTown Racers

hillfamilyloft said:


> Mine will also go monday. I have one that is a bit young but he is down and looking good. Sometimes I think it just as good to get them at that weaning period, where they pick at grains but are still pumped by the parents. A full crop before shipping is a good thing. If they have found the food, they should be just fine when a little hungry.


I agree. My plan is to bring them over to the yb loft over the weekend for a crash course in eating and drinking, and then Monday morning I will put them back in the breeders loft for one last giant free meal right before shipping. It shouldnt be a problem for them because they have been on the loft floor for over a week now.


----------



## drifter

When will the actual race take place take? Knowing little about racing I'm curious to know what the average age of the birds will be during their first race. Wish I was entering birds but I waited too late to raise young birds.


----------



## Crazy Pete

grifter said:


> When will the actual race take place take? Knowing little about racing I'm curious to know what the average age of the birds will be during their first race. Wish I was entering birds but I waited too late to raise young birds.


Its not to late if you have birds that are a week or so old they would be ready to ship May 9
Dave


----------



## ace in the hole

My entries will be sent in monday by *Hillfamilyloft* from some of my stock he has on loan.

I will be sending two out monday for *k2rmx.rob*. His entries this year will be 1/2 HVR, 1/4 my 801 Houben and 1/4 SFL 836 Janssen.


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

hillfamilyloft said:


> Mine will also go monday. I have one that is a bit young but he is down and looking good. Sometimes I think it just as good to get them at that weaning period, where they pick at grains but are still pumped by the parents. A full crop before shipping is a good thing. If they have found the food, they should be just fine when a little hungry.





SouthTown Racers said:


> I agree. My plan is to bring them over to the yb loft over the weekend for a crash course in eating and drinking, and then Monday morning I will put them back in the breeders loft for one last giant free meal right before shipping. It shouldnt be a problem for them because they have been on the loft floor for over a week now.


That's what I did for my entries. They were barely picking at the food so they spent the day before shipping with Mom and Pop to get a full tank for the trip. I was a little concerned about sending them a little young but from what Tom says, they are doing fine now. A little younger than the birds that arrived before them at the time but old enough. Now I'm sure they're roosting at the top perches!


----------



## drifter

Crazy Pete said:


> Its not to late if you have birds that are a week or so old they would be ready to ship May 9
> Dave


My two best pair laid eggs about a month ago, I decided to replace their eggs with dummy eggs because of some problems I was having. I should have let them hatch because the problems turned out not be serious. Maybe things will work out for me next year.


----------



## conditionfreak

I just hope my two don't get lost on the first training toss. They look so darn good that I am afraid Mr. Hawk won't be able to resist.

But....he has to catch them first, and they are the fastest birds on the planet in level flight. 

If they do get lost, it's got to be Flapdoodles fault. (that's my story and I'm sticking to it)  he he


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

Mine are ugly so Mr. Hawk won't mess with them!

Can't wait to see them in training!


----------



## blongboy

mine are black ..maybe Mr.hawk like lighter prey!(finger cross)


----------



## Big T

Relax everyone, my whites ship Monday as well. Of course it is the only two I got left. But Mister Hawk will have that blinding white speed to keep him at bay, if your birds can keep up that is. 

This has become a very busy year for me so posts are becoming less and short. 

Looks like a busy week at the post office for Flap!!!

Thanks for all you do,
Tony

PS Good luck to all who enter, may your birds always find the loft....Behind mine.


----------



## conditionfreak

Thank goodness someone is sending white birds.

Now mine can rest easier, knowing the hawks will be taken care of.

Thanks very much.

But I have a small suggestion. Why not spray paint their sides black, making them look like flying skunks.

Nobody messes with skunks. Especially flying skunks.


----------



## tipllers rule

i have a young bird but no clock is there a way i could enter


----------



## blongboy

tipllers rule said:


> i have a young bird but no clock is there a way i could enter


did you sign up before flap said nomore?


----------



## jpsnapdy

Flapdoodle said:


> We need to add a few names to the list. We received ten great looking birds today from:
> 
> fresnobirdman
> pigeonnewb
> dstephenson
> MaryOfExeter
> mytripOH


Yeah!
Hi Becky! The article with your pic is on Racing Pigeon News, the newsletter of Racing Pigeon Forum. You're famous!


----------



## eyespyer

If I am counting right, it looks like he has 19 fanciers total of 38 birds.

And 8 or 9 more pairs going out Monday 

That will be about 56 birds - that is a nice team

GOOD LUCK TO ALL


----------



## SouthTown Racers

Birds are in the mail today!!!


----------



## blongboy

SouthTown Racers said:


> Birds are in the mail today!!!


mine too ...but they said it might not get there till 3pm wed


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Mine will go out in an hour or so.


----------



## Gnuretiree

Mine are not going today. I am sending one bird from my coop that was raised by a pair of last year birds that I did not separate in the fall. It is a little older. The other is coming from a flyer in my club and when I went to pick it up, it just seemed a bit too young to go. I'll send both next week. I figured it would be better to send one that was a little too old, than to send one that is a little too young. Next week it is.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Shipped out today. Should be there Wednesday.

Mark Raymond
GFTG 105
GFTG 106

Josepe
LL 1003
LL 1005

For Me
GFTG 107
GFTG 108


----------



## MaryOfExeter

jpsnapdy said:


> Yeah!
> Hi Becky! The article with your pic is on Racing Pigeon News, the newsletter of Racing Pigeon Forum. You're famous!


I saw that  I was surprised! Wonder how that got in there?  Either way, I'm glad our club got some worldwide attention (assuming there are more than just USA people that follow the RPN).


conditionfreak - LOL! Yes, flying skunks would be horrible! If the hawks out there have ever met a skunk and got sprayed, I'm sure they wouldn't mess with our flying ones


----------



## hillfamilyloft

MaryOfExeter said:


> I saw that  I was surprised! Wonder how that got in there?  Either way, I'm glad our club got some worldwide attention (assuming there are more than just USA people that follow the RPN).
> 
> 
> conditionfreak - LOL! Yes, flying skunks would be horrible! If the hawks out there have ever met a skunk and got sprayed, I'm sure they wouldn't mess with our flying ones


Becky
What were your birds off of this year that you sent to the PT race?


----------



## Big T

conditionfreak said:


> Thank goodness someone is sending white birds.
> 
> Now mine can rest easier, knowing the hawks will be taken care of.
> 
> Thanks very much.
> 
> But I have a small suggestion. Why not spray paint their sides black, making them look like flying skunks.
> 
> Nobody messes with skunks. Especially flying skunks.


Don't know much about skunks do you? They are black with white stripes, not white with black stripes. If you ever pull one out a rabbit box like my cousins and I did when we were kids you would *NEVER FORGET!!! *

Tony


----------



## Josepe

Looking forward to the training tosses and seeing their progress,then the Races! Good luck to all!


----------



## conditionfreak

Big T said:


> Don't know much about skunks do you? They are black with white stripes, not white with black stripes. If you ever pull one out a rabbit box like my cousins and I did when we were kids you would *NEVER FORGET!!! *
> 
> Tony


Ha Ha. I know a lot about skunks. In the 70's while in the Marine Corps stationed in North Carolina, I had one as a pet for several years and eventually donated him to the Cincinnati Zoo. I was amazed that they put him in the childrens petting section, since he was not all that friendly to my wife and I. Pepe Le Pew was an albino. 

That is why I said to paint their sides black (thus making a white stripe down their back). But as you can see in the pic below. One could easily paint a black stripe down Pepe's back and get the job done. 

Now, maybe we can discuss whether a Zebra is black with white stripes or white with black stripes.

Ha Ha Ha

Here is an old polaroid photo of Pepe Le Pew being "difficult". I have another somewhere, of him and I riding a motorcycle. But I couldn't find it easily right now.

One thing about Pepe was that he wasn't afraid of anything. He was descented, but apparently didn't know it. He would walk up to the dog food bowl put out for my two dogs (German Shepherd and Pit Bull), and just "take" over their food bowl. They would give ground to him, for some reason I never understood. Maybe they had a run in with a skunk in the past and recognized the smell and didn't want to mess with a skunk ever again in life. 

I know I wouldn't. It is the toughest thing I have ever had to deal with, when another dog of mine years later. Got sprayed by a skunk and came into the house and started rubbing against the carpets and furniture, spreading the smell all around the house. Before we could get her back outside again. We used tomato juice to no avail. Finally, we used vinegar to de-smell the dog and the furniture and carpets. But it took a month to go away fully. It was the most awful smell I have ever had to put up with. Worse than my uncles farts after eating Cincinnati style chlli and White Castle hamburgers. If I would have had money back in those days, I would have hired a company to clean the house. But alas, we were living paycheck to paycheck.


----------



## Big T

conditionfreak said:


> Ha Ha. I know a lot about skunks. In the 70's while in the Marine Corps stationed in North Carolina, I had one as a pet for several years and eventually donated him to the Cincinnati Zoo. I was amazed that they put him in the childrens petting section, since he was not all that friendly to my wife and I. Pepe Le Pew was an albino.


Conditionfreak you alway seem to amaze me, an abino skunk for a pet. That is something very few people have ever had as a pet. Good luck with the race.

Tony


----------



## MaryOfExeter

hillfamilyloft said:


> Becky
> What were your birds off of this year that you sent to the PT race?


I sent a red bar that is a sibling to the blue check I sent last year. It's all Sion.
The other bird is what a lot of people would call "chocolate check" - still not sure what gene is causing the color (it isn't indigo, looks too weird to be bronze). Dad has been raced up to 500 miles (probably farther since the guy is more on the long end of the combine) but just didn't come back in time to make the cut. The hen he is with is either Devriendt or Houben, can't remember right now. All I know is he told me to pair these two together and I did it  Him being one of the top members in the combine, I definitely trust his opinions. But as with a lot of gifted birds, I didn't get any pedigrees. So this is pretty much all I know. Wasn't planning on sending from that pair but my birds didn't cooperate with me this time! It should still do good though...I hope


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

That albino skunk is unreal! And you had it as a pet! Even more unreal!!


----------



## jpsnapdy

MaryOfExeter said:


> I saw that  I was surprised! Wonder how that got in there?  Either way, I'm glad our club got some worldwide attention (assuming there are more than just USA people that follow the RPN).



I guess there are people outside the US reading RPN ! at least one  lol!


----------



## ace in the hole

I could not make it to the post office yesterday so *k2rmx.rob*'s birds went out today. They are gauranteed to be to Tom on thursday.


----------



## mtripOH

Conditionfreak, that albino skunk looks down right mean in that pic! My parents had 2 pet skunks before my siblings and I came along. They loved those skunks and they have many memorable stories they love to share about them.


----------



## mtripOH

*Kudos*

In case you may not know it...Conditionfreak is one great guy! Thanks to him my son is able to be part of the PT race. I had posted earlier that we were going to have to bow out of the race as our birds were not following our plan. We are newbies and pretty much learning by trial and error. Conditionfreak wasted no time in offering 2 winning (did you get that, winning  ) birds to Josiah. I hope they have some of that "pretty bird" stock in them! We are kind of bummed that we could not send some fliers from our loft, but we are just as excited to be part of the fun and camaraderie that this race brings with it. Thanks Conditionfreak for being such a great sportsman. You set a honorable example.


----------



## Big T

mtripOH said:


> In case you may not know it...Conditionfreak is one great guy! Thanks to him my son is able to be part of the PT race. I had posted earlier that we were going to have to bow out of the race as our birds were not following our plan. We are newbies and pretty much learning by trial and error. Conditionfreak wasted no time in offering 2 winning (did you get that, winning  ) birds to Josiah. I hope they have some of that "pretty bird" stock in them! We are kind of bummed that we could not send some fliers from our loft, but we are just as excited to be part of the fun and camaraderie that this race brings with it. Thanks Conditionfreak for being such a great sportsman. You set a honorable example.


Do you mind... We all know he is a great guy, but he does get the big head real easy and now you have done it.

Thanks (rolls eyes),
Tony


----------



## conditionfreak

Thank you for the kind words, but it wasn't much really. Just a couple of winning (did you get that part: WINNING!) pigeons. Ha Ha. Some others here are doing similar things, I think.

Hope you get second place. Ha Ha

Seriously though. Glad to help out the junior flyer and his "pit crew".

As to the skunk. Pepe was manageable. But you could not count on him not biting if he took a mind to it. I could carry him around, but always on the alert for him to suddenly decide he didn't want to be carried anymore. When he started squirming around, you had better put him down. He had the run of the house and used a cat litter box to do his "thing". He basically lived on dog food, but would eat lots of things. His favorite food was to dig for grubs (or whatever insect type thing he could find) in the grass and wooded area, as I walked him on a leash. He was not a true albino I think. Because as I understand it, albinos have pink eyes, and I believe all albinos eventually go blind. At least that is what I have heard (remind me to tell y'all about my blind miniature horse "Roy", who is currently with us on the farm). Pepe had dark eyes. He was just white and not a true albino I think.

hmmm....I wonder if there are white pigeons and then there are albino pigeons? I'll have to study up on that.

Pepe didn't really have a bad smell, but he had a smell, much like many dogs do. Giving him a bath was out of the question.

One thing I learned from Pepe, was why so many skunks get run over on the road. He did not run away from anything. When he felt threatened, he would face the threat head on and firmly place his two front feet, ready for action. Much like in the photo above. His claws were very long, for digging. But he used them to let many a dog know that he was taking over their food bowl.

I was told by my family (but never actually seen it myself), that at the Cincinnati Zoo in the late 70's, there was a small sign in the childrens petting zoo section, that stated "Pepe Le Pew, the all white skunk, donated by Sgt. Walt Thomas, USMC". Maybe someone here saw it? Not too memorable though, I admit. 

I miss Pepe, but I would never have a pet skunk again. Unless it didn't ever bite.  It hurt like heck. Only happened three or four times though. He had his "shots", just like a dog or cat gets.

Hey, getting this posting back on track to birds, while looking for another pic of Pepe (which I didn't find), I found a pic of me at Mt. Fuji, Japan, 1973, with a small sparrow type bird I rescued and hand raised. It (don't know if it was a boy or girl), lived in the wild on a military base, but would come to me whenever I whistled for it. My Sergeant usually called me "****bird" (rhymes with "bit"), so this birds name became "****bird Jr." by all the guys I was stationed with. 

Sadly, I had to leave it in Japan, in the wild, because the military would not let me take him to Cambodia with me. I am sure that he/she was very lonely after I left.


----------



## RodSD

Skunk has poor eyesight so they probably get run over by cars. They have powerful sense of smell and hearing though. I have a skunk that visits my loft along with raccoon and opossums. I suppose these are the animals that eat some of the pigeon eggs that I put in the yard. Only the raccoon tries to get inside my loft and made some marks. I've heard that some people make raccoon as pets as well.

Conditionfreak, it seems that you are an animal lover for life. You probably can befriend anyone--maybe even a cobra.


----------



## bbcdon

conditionfreak, thank you for your service for our country!!


----------



## conditionfreak

"Conditionfreak, it seems that you are an animal lover for life. You probably can befriend anyone--maybe even a cobra."

Yes. I love all life. Even feel bad about mowing the grass, because of all the bugs and little frogs I might harm. But....It has to be mowed, so I do it slowly while looking to watch out for the little critters. I mowed over a small snake once and was really sad about it. 

I am not afraid of snakes but I have never desired to own one. Because they have to be fed living things and I could not stomach that. My oldest son has had them as pets though. Snakes and scorpions. (yuck!)

I will tell you a true snake story that will perhaps make you want to pray more often.

My youngest son, when he was 10 (he is 28 now), was bitten by a rattle snake on some property we bought in Orwell, Ohio. It was twenty acres that we did not have a house on yet and we still lived in Cleveland but had purchased the land to build on. While I was working on putting in a driveway lined with railroad ties, my son picked up a small snake and it bit him on his thumb.

Yes. In Ohio, near the Pa. border in Astabula county, not far from Lake Erie. (where we eventually lived near Mike Tyson). I sold that land and bought a house not to far from there after that.

Who would of thought that there were wild rattle snakes in northest Ohio? Certainly not me.

My son had to be life flighted to Cleveland, where they treated him with the anti-venom that they obtained from the Cleveland Zoo. I had to drive there to meet with. I had phoned my wife from a pay phone and told her what had occurred, and she got there first. It was a 70 minute drive for me to get to the hospital. When I arrived and walked into the emergency room lobby, my wife was crying and told me that the doctor had just informed her that our son was going to lose his arm. I was naturally devasted, and began praying as my eyes filled with tears.

An hour later the doctor came out and told us that they decided not to "take" the arm and would see how it went. But he had little hope of saving the arm. He also told us that the anti-venom has its own set of problems and could shut down my sons kidneys, or liver. I don't remember which right now. But it was not a good thing, whichever it was. They said that he could possibly die from the bite and/or the anti-venom. He was a very skinny kid at the time.

Well, anyway. To make a long story short. He survived it all and went on to set the three point shot record in the Grand Valley High School basketball system, with that arm. Ironically, due to the tremendous swelling of his arm, the doctors had to cut his arm in a jagged line to relieve the pressure. This jagged cut is now a scar that eerily resembles a snake. My son became quite a good basketball player and was offered scholarships but declined them as he hated school work.  (disappointed dad in THAT decision)

Oh. I forgot the main thing to my story. In that emergency room lobby, when I started praying to spare my sons arm and life. I asked God to take my arm instead or inflict me with a health problem or death, but to please spare my child.

One week after that night, I was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes and have been taking insulin shots ever since.

Coincidence, probably. But prior to that, I had been healthy as a horse. I was a boxer, marathon runner and "basketball playing fool" (my wifes words, not mine). I had won numerous medals in the Ohio State Police and Fire Olympics, in several different sports. Tennis, Table Tennis, Basketball and Racquetball.

A true story for what it is worth. I am sure it will mean different things to different people.

Okay. Back to your regularly scheduled program. Pigeons. 

OH! I forgot the funny part. The doctors had to graft a piece of skin onto the back of my sons hand during all of this. They ended up obtaining that skin from his leg. He now shaves the back of his right hand because he grows "leg hair" there.  Too funny.


----------



## Big T

Conditionfreak, you make hard for this sailor not to like you. You old Jarhead you.

Tony

A Marine saving a bird, now I seen everything.


----------



## conditionfreak

Ha Ha. I also served in the Navy. But only for 6 months. Marines for 7 1/2 years. 

It's a long story, and y'all know I don't like long stories.  Ha Ha Ha Ha


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Is there anything you haven't done? Yeesh  You should write a book about your life!


----------



## conditionfreak

I spent nine years working undercover narcotics and two years working strike force (mostly picking up prostitutes and looking for missing kids) during my career. I arrested Kevin Mack of the Browns and Kevin Mackey the Cleveland state basketball coach, both for drug violations. I was honored by the U.S. Congress at the end of my career (108th Congress).

So, the only thing left in my life to do, is beat Warren in a pigeon race.  Sadly, he won't race against me anymore. He is one smart feller that Warren Smith.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Flap
Just checking to see if the birds made it ok. 

Thanks


----------



## Happy

Flap, 

I'm just checking also to see if my 2 got there OK. Sent Mon. afternoon? 
Thanks, Happy


----------



## k2rmx.rob

The projected winners should be on the way to there new home today.

AU-19293, AU-19294. Both are blue checks, thanks to Ace for providing great birds.


----------



## Flapdoodle

k2rmx.rob said:


> The projected winners should be on the way to there new home today.
> 
> AU-19293, AU-19294. Both are blue checks, thanks to Ace for providing great birds.





Happy said:


> Flap,
> 
> I'm just checking also to see if my 2 got there OK. Sent Mon. afternoon?
> Thanks, Happy





hillfamilyloft said:


> Flap
> Just checking to see if the birds made it ok.
> 
> Thanks


We added 16 birds yesterday. They all look great. Two different trips to the post office... 

I have been crazy busy the past couple of months. I am burning the candle at both ends. After May 7th things will get a lot easier. I will have more time for posts and videos. 

We have had a little set back. The combine voted last week to change shipping limits from 20 each race to 15. 15 bird limit won by two votes. Rather then being in the top forty in the training tosses the weeks leading up to the first race we will only be able to send the top thirty. The rest can still go as trainers.


----------



## Flapdoodle

Walt... Where the heck did you get a picture of my Mother in Law? 


conditionfreak said:


> Ha Ha. I know a lot about skunks.


----------



## Timber

Flapdoodle said:


> We added 16 birds yesterday. They all look great. Two different trips to the post office....


Please let me know if you recieved the OCALA entries.....Thanks.


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

Timber how is the white bird race going? If you decide to do it again next year I'll have a few to enter hopefully.


----------



## Big T

conditionfreak said:


> Ha Ha. I also served in the Navy. But only for 6 months. Marines for 7 1/2 years.
> 
> It's a long story, and y'all know I don't like long stories.  Ha Ha Ha Ha


Sailor for six months. Couldn't cut it so you joined the Marines. What happen, you couldn't hold your beer in one hand a girl in the other and still undo 13 buttons to pee. A requirement for sailors for all you landlovers.

For the record never drink beer in Crackerjacks. 

Tony

PS As a marine you know we sailors were your ride, so I guess your birds will follow mine back like the good marine birds they are. 

You know, I have all white Birds. Must be a throw back from my Navy days. Something to think about.


----------



## Josepe

Flap,
Any updated pics of the loft? How many birds at this point?


----------



## loonecho

Josepe said:


> Flap,
> Any updated pics of the loft? How many birds at this point?


And how many different states have you gotten birds from?


----------



## conditionfreak

Big T said:


> Sailor for six months. Couldn't cut it so you joined the Marines. What happen, you couldn't hold your beer in one hand a girl in the other and still undo 13 buttons to pee. A requirement for sailors for all you landlovers.
> 
> For the record never drink beer in Crackerjacks.
> 
> Tony
> 
> PS As a marine you know we sailors were your ride, so I guess your birds will follow mine back like the good marine birds they are.
> 
> You know, I have all white Birds. Must be a throw back from my Navy days. Something to think about.


Ha Ha.

Actually BigT, I was in the Marines first (Staff Sergeant) and had six months to go until my 8 year enlistment was up. Then the Navy asked me to do them a favor and come work for them for my last six months to do a specific job I was qualified for. I asked them if I did, could I grow and beard and they said "sure", So I did an interservice transfer and they gave me the rank of Yeoman 1st Class. I finished the job and got out. It is kind of strange how it worked out though. I have a honorable dischage from the Marines and a honorable discharge from the Navy Reserves. I guess they made it the "Reserves" because I was only in the Navy for six months. I was disappointed about it being labeled a "Reserves" duty. I worked everyday (well, as much as sailors work) 

Anyway, you know what they say about "squids". The definition of a "squid" is a "low form of Marine life". Ha Ha (look it up in your Websters). Ha Ha ha

Comparing sailors and jarheads to pigeons. Let's just characterize it this way. The Marines actually go through the trap. The Navy just gets the Marines to the landing board, park..., and watch the Marines go into the trap. 

Sailors do have their place in the word. Much like bus and cab drivers.

Ha ha Ha Ha (we could do this kind of stuff all day, couldn't we BigT)


----------



## rackerman

*I am out of the race.*

I am out of the race. I just lost two babies due to the cold weather and new parents that were not doing thier job.......
I am so, so bummed out.... I was suppose to ship two for me and two for Bcr1......... I am really bummed. I looked so forward to this and now this.
I just added on to one of my lofts this week and it is now 7' by 8'. I hope we can get into the race next year.

Good luck everyone! I though I had some good possibility to win.


----------



## JaxRacingLofts

rackerman said:


> I am out of the race. I just lost two babies due to the cold weather and new parents that were not doing thier job.......
> I am so, so bummed out.... I was suppose to ship two for me and two for Bcr1......... I am really bummed. I looked so forward to this and now this.
> I just added on to one of my lofts this week and it is now 7' by 8'. I hope we can get into the race next year.
> 
> Good luck everyone! I though I had some good possibility to win.


If I was not promised out of all my ybs I would of offered you some to compete with. Sorry, I can't help you out right now..maybe someone here can get ya back into the fun


----------



## drifter

I really would not get any satisfaction out of racing and winning with somebody else's birds. My satisfaction would come from knowing I selected and paired up the breeders and raised the young birds in my loft. But that's just me, different strokes for different folks.


----------



## JaxRacingLofts

grifter said:


> I really would not get any satisfaction out of racing and winning with somebody else's birds. My satisfaction would come from knowing I selected and paired up the breeders and raised the young birds in my loft. But that's just me, different strokes for different folks.


So if Mike Ganus (not comparing myself so don't get side tracked) or David Clausing gave you some good birds to compete with and you won a one loft race your saying you would'nt feel any satisfaction?


----------



## PigeonVilla

JaxRacingLofts said:


> So if Mike Ganus (not comparing myself so don't get side tracked) or David Clausing gave you some good birds to compete with and you won a one loft race your saying you would'nt feel any satisfaction?


 I myself if he/they offered me the birds I would rather have those birds in my loft then another persons lol just being honest here  But Im guessing the thrill would still be there if they won in the end and were coming home to my loft in the end too.


----------



## JaxRacingLofts

PigeonVilla said:


> I myself if he/they offered me the birds I would rather have those birds in my loft then another persons lol just being honest here  But Im guessing the thrill would still be there if they won in the end and were coming home to my loft in the end too.


I agree...I still think it would be cool if someone could offer to send some birds in for him. Its alot more interesting race if you have a stake in the outcome.


----------



## drifter

JaxRacingLofts said:


> So if Mike Ganus (not comparing myself so don't get side tracked) or David Clausing gave you some good birds to compete with and you won a one loft race your saying you would'nt feel any satisfaction?


If I had birds from Ganus or Clausing I sure as heck wouldn't risk racing them, not until I had a had a dozen of their offspring in my loft. To answer your question, no not a lot of satisfaction. Not as much satisfaction as I would from birds that I bred. But again that's just me.


----------



## conditionfreak

Rackerman. That is a bummer about your pairing. I can give you two birds for the PT competition, if you want. They would be ready in about two weeks. I have several pairs to choose from.

The way I see it is like this. If I purchase some young birds from Ganus (or whomever) and send them to a one loft race, they are still my birds. So, if someone gives me some young birds for the PT competition, they are still my birds. They were not bred by me, but they are now my property and come back to me after the competition. 

They belong to you if I provide them to you. I obtained birds from "ace in the hole", that he bred, and I have no problems at all accepting diplomas from my combine, if Ace's birds win for me. They are my birds. If an adopted son becomes a war hero, would the father that adopted him not be proud?

It's up to you. If interested I can send you a PM and tell you about the pairs I have with young and you can choose which you like. You can even send me one dollar to make it an official purchase, if you want.

It really is a lot of fun reading about how the birds are doing throughout the season, and also to watch the videos. I can even provide you a bird that has a decent chance of winning the "prettiest bird" contest, and will fly well also.


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## Pigeon0446

I wouldn't take any pride in winning a one loft race with a bird bred by somebody else. What did you do nothing somebody else paired up two birds and sent them into a race. Maybe if I went to somebody's loft or an auction and picked out a couple birds then maybe since I picked out good birds. But not if somebody sent a bird to a one loft race for me. It'll be cool to win either way but like I said what pride could you take from it. To me even winning a race in general with a bird bred somebody else isn't as good a feeling as winning with a bird I bred myself and won with. A win is a win but it's all that much better when you win with a bird that was bred from a pair you put together and raised up from a lil baby. But I don't know how it feels to win with a bird bred by sombody else since all of the 18 wins I've had so far were with birds bred by me.


----------



## Josepe

446,
Yea that may be okay for someone like you and others who have an established breeding program and race records.But then there's ones like me(new to the sport) and alot of others that hasn't got that far in the race game yet.You didn't get any help from experienced pigeon people when you started? I'm Sixty and Thrilled to have two birds in this race(my first race) even though I didn't breed them.And also Thrilled to have six pair of good breeders from another member here,to start breeding my own from next year.If it weren't for
some of the generous people in this sport some of us possibly wouldn't be able to get started.


----------



## rackerman

*Conditionfreak, That is very kind of you and a very nice offer from you... I need today to think about it. I did send you a PM.
Thank you!*


conditionfreak said:


> Rackerman. That is a bummer about your pairing. I can give you two birds for the PT competition, if you want. They would be ready in about two weeks. I have several pairs to choose from.
> 
> The way I see it is like this. If I purchase some young birds from Ganus (or whomever) and send them to a one loft race, they are still my birds. So, if someone gives me some young birds for the PT competition, they are still my birds. They were not bred by me, but they are now my property and come back to me after the competition.
> 
> They belong to you if I provide them to you. I obtained birds from "ace in the hole", that he bred, and I have no problems at all accepting diplomas from my combine, if Ace's birds win for me. They are my birds. If an adopted son becomes a war hero, would the father that adopted him not be proud?
> 
> It's up to you. If interested I can send you a PM and tell you about the pairs I have with young and you can choose which you like. You can even send me one dollar to make it an official purchase, if you want.
> 
> It really is a lot of fun reading about how the birds are doing throughout the season, and also to watch the videos. I can even provide you a bird that has a decent chance of winning the "prettiest bird" contest, and will fly well also.


----------



## JaxRacingLofts

Nice Job Conditionfreak, stepping up to help out a fellow PT member..Thats a what I call true gentleman. Even though I do not like Ace's birds I am glad some people remember its just pigeon racing..not a cut throat craps game. This hobby should be fun for everyone and we should all help each out when we can.


----------



## jpsnapdy

Hi all,
You have said it all! The pros and the cons of having one's own birds and others' birds in an event. 
As for me I don't live in the US and though I didn't have a bird in last year's PT race, I did follow it from beginning to the end as others did, I did vote for the Pretty Bird contest (the bird I voted for won the contest probably thanks to me) )) aND i WAS HAPPY IT DID!
I have had my share of wins here where I live and my birds are sought after by good flyers around here. So I suppose my ego is taken care of that way!

I do get a real kick following my friends' birds achievements even if they are not from my bloodlines. I like to share with others and what you give always comes the full circle back to you in the end...
I also enjoy watching thoroughbred racing on TV, though I don't bet and the horses are not mine. I suppose this works like all games. Many people like to watch a good ball game or whatever on TV though they're not out there on the field, right ?
And it's great to "share" someone's joy at winning or just being a part of it. I always try to keep it simple in a good natured way, like I always help beginners with birds and systems, feeding tips or whatever they need to have or know. I also tell them to get the best birds they can get from OTHER fanciers.

In a word, it is fun for me to just be a part of whatever is happening out there, wherever that may be.

Happy racing and God bless you all !

JeanPierre.


----------



## ace in the hole

JaxRacingLofts said:


> Nice Job Conditionfreak, stepping up to help out a fellow PT member..Thats a what I call true gentleman. *Even though I do not like Ace's birds* I am glad some people remember its just pigeon racing..not a cut throat craps game. This hobby should be fun for everyone and we should all help each out when we can.


Hey *Jaxtex* or what ever it was before you changed your name here on PT. We still know who you are and that it is me you are mad at and not my birds. No matter what you say on here to make a jab at me we know you have those birds in your breeding loft right now.

You can say what ever you want about me and I will be sure to respond but I'll let my birds speak for themselves. 

Mark/Ace


----------



## blongboy

ace in the hole said:


> Hey *Jaxtex* or what ever it was before you changed your name here on PT. We still know who you are and that it is me you are mad at and not my birds. No matter what you say on here to make a jab at me we know you have those birds in your breeding loft right now.
> 
> You can say what ever you want about me and I will be sure to respond but I'll let my birds speak for themselves.
> 
> Mark/Ace


wow you must have very nice birds ...have your stock punch out any blacks?


----------



## ace in the hole

blongboy said:


> wow you must have very nice birds ...have your stock punch out any blacks?


No, I have no blacks. I do not breed for color at all only for performance. At this time 80% of what I produce are blue bars, 15% blue checks and the other 5% are dark checks, red checks or silvers


----------



## JaxRacingLofts

jpsnapdy said:


> Hi all,
> You have said it all! The pros and the cons of having one's own birds and others' birds in an event.
> As for me I don't live in the US and though I didn't have a bird in last year's PT race, I did follow it from beginning to the end as others did, I did vote for the Pretty Bird contest (the bird I voted for won the contest probably thanks to me) )) aND i WAS HAPPY IT DID!
> I have had my share of wins here where I live and my birds are sought after by good flyers around here. So I suppose my ego is taken care of that way!
> 
> I do get a real kick following my friends' birds achievements even if they are not from my bloodlines. I like to share with others and what you give always comes the full circle back to you in the end...
> I also enjoy watching thoroughbred racing on TV, though I don't bet and the horses are not mine. I suppose this works like all games. Many people like to watch a good ball game or whatever on TV though they're not out there on the field, right ?
> And it's great to "share" someone's joy at winning or just being a part of it. I always try to keep it simple in a good natured way, like I always help beginners with birds and systems, feeding tips or whatever they need to have or know. I also tell them to get the best birds they can get from OTHER fanciers.
> 
> In a word, it is fun for me to just be a part of whatever is happening out there, wherever that may be.
> 
> Happy racing and God bless you all !
> 
> JeanPierre.


Like I said Conditionfreak is a true gentleman..to offer to help a fancier that might have to drop out of the races due to breeding mishaps. I'm sure good things his way



ace in the hole said:


> Hey *Jaxtex* or what ever it was before you changed your name here on PT. We still know who you are and that it is me you are mad at and not my birds. No matter what you say on here to make a jab at me we know you have those birds in your breeding loft right now.
> 
> You can say what ever you want about me and I will be sure to respond but I'll let my birds speak for themselves.
> 
> Mark/Ace



I said I would not breed from the birds I bought because of the way they handle. As of the last week of April I stand corrected and I am man enough to admit it. I was gifted a really nice Huskin Van Reil that is a 02' that I nick named "The Distinguished Gentleman"..I have tried to pair him to 3 different hens (Since November last year) and he would not take a mate. Then we repeat this circular argument that goes no where and I make this statement online and this old bird has made a liar out of me. 
Another lesson remembered / learned "Never Say Never". I was told this cock offspring are still breeding winners so if this hen is only 1/4 as good as people claim..then some guys in Louisiana are gonna have some decent Yb's to fly this year.


----------



## First To Hatch

JaxRacingLofts said:


> Hey Acehole...I said last year I'm not going breed from the garbage you sold me (sloppy loose vents and broad wide tails when being held in the hand) and I meant it. I know you scammed me and I'm ok with it now...it was worth the $125 to know what kind of hustlers are out there in the racing pigeon sport. Consider it lessoned learned. I was going to give them away but I did not want to pass off junk to guys that don't know the difference.
> I talked with Jay Holder about this and he said sloppy vents and broad tails don't matter in the sprint races out to 300 miles but for the longer races he recommend also that I avoid breeding from them..so between the guys I showed your birds too and the Vice President of the AU saying not to breed from them...your outa luck. If they pair up to something of mine I'll toss the eggs. Its not getting my band put on it.
> So if anyone wants these "super shellings" let me know I would like to get part of my money back but they are wasting space in my loft.


How about you be a mature adult, forget about it and move on. DO NOT BRING THIS INTO THE PT CLASSIC THREAD. I'm sick of this garbage in the forums.


----------



## ace in the hole

JaxRacingLofts said:


> Like I said Conditionfreak is a true gentleman..to offer to help a fancier that might have to drop out of the races due to breeding mishaps. I'm sure good things his way
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Acehole...I said last year I'm not going breed from the garbage you sold me (sloppy loose vents and broad wide tails when being held in the hand) and I meant it. I know you scammed me and I'm ok with it now...it was worth the $125 to know what kind of hustlers are out there in the racing pigeon sport. Consider it lessoned learned. I was going to give them away but I did not want to pass off junk to guys that don't know the difference.
> I talked with Jay Holder about this and he said sloppy vents and broad tails don't matter in the sprint races out to 300 miles but for the longer races he recommend also that I avoid breeding from them..so between the guys I showed your birds too and the Vice President of the AU saying not to breed from them...your outa luck. If they pair up to something of mine I'll toss the eggs. Its not getting my band put on it.
> So if anyone wants these "super shellings" let me know I would like to get part of my money back but they are wasting space in my loft.


You make me laugh. 

I do not want to take over this thread with all of this and I really have to run now but I will inform you later on these birds and what they are bred for.


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## SouthTown Racers

First To Hatch said:


> How about you be a mature adult, forget about it and move on. DO NOT BRING THIS INTO THE PT CLASSIC THREAD. I'm sick of this garbage in the forums.


I agree, but I have to admit, its a guilty pleasure reading this stuff. I guess since I dont watch TV, it is the senceless drama in my life that one would normaly get from a sitcom


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## hillfamilyloft

Didn't we do this once before? Time to stop the personal attacks. Integrity should rule this roost. Just a side note, Ace's birds have won races for more than one member in this post. Agree with Ace here that base your birds on performance. In this case I do think it better that you pass the birds on so this issue can be put under the rug. Also Jax the two little hens that you have from my stock, If they do not produce for you please do not bash them or me, just send them back or get them to a member that needs birds. The Schellens birds that you might be talking about bred me a 13th at 250 against 364 birds. Once again, I don't see the point of all this. If it is Schellens blood, it is from Ed Miniville's stock down from the best. 

That is all I am saying. An administrator should put and end to this and ban those that use profanity in the forum. Funny just last night the guy I fly with in Albuquerque just said, "I don't get why grown men fight over pigeons".


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## TAWhatley

Let's keep it civil and on track, please. No personal attacks, no profanity. If you have a beef with someone, please take it private.

Best of luck to all of you who are participating in this year's race!

Terry


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## g0ldenb0y55

SouthTown Racers said:


> I agree, but I have to admit, its a guilty pleasure reading this stuff. I guess since I dont watch TV, it is the senceless drama in my life that one would normaly get from a sitcom


My thoughts exactly! But I do watch "Taking on Tyson" and Sports on TV.


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## PigeonVilla

Just another windy day inside and out. lol


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## NayNay

PigeonVilla said:


> Just another windy day inside and out. lol


 

So, how 'bout those Mariners......LOL


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## g0ldenb0y55

Go LAKERS!!


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## jpsnapdy

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> Go LAKERS!!


Lol!


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## Timber

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> Timber how is the white bird race going? If you decide to do it again next year I'll have a few to enter hopefully.


Things are going good thus far. I cant wait to turn them out though!


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## hillfamilyloft

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> Go LAKERS!!


This is Nuggets Country!


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## JaxRacingLofts

hillfamilyloft said:


> Didn't we do this once before? Time to stop the personal attacks. Integrity should rule this roost. Just a side note, Ace's birds have won races for more than one member in this post. Agree with Ace here that base your birds on performance. In this case I do think it better that you pass the birds on so this issue can be put under the rug. Also Jax the two little hens that you have from my stock, If they do not produce for you please do not bash them or me, just send them back or get them to a member that needs birds. The Schellens birds that you might be talking about bred me a 13th at 250 against 364 birds. Once again, I don't see the point of all this. If it is Schellens blood, it is from Ed Miniville's stock down from the best.
> 
> That is all I am saying. An administrator should put and end to this and ban those that use profanity in the forum. Funny just last night the guy I fly with in Albuquerque just said, "I don't get why grown men fight over pigeons".


Randy,
I am not bashing anyones pigeons I only said I do not want those birds breeding with my stock. I even said The VP of the AU said how they handle doesn't matter for sprint birds (deep keeled/ loose vents/ weak back) Race'em. 
Your loft partner is too insecure of my opinion of his birds and started this back track. 

Its amazing to me that I say I do not like someones pigeons and all hell breaks loose...but I ask if any PT member will help Rackerman compete in the PT Classic and only 1 PT member stepped up and offered to help him get in the race??? Go figure on where peoples priorities are


----------



## RodSD

*jax,*
We get it that the bird/birds that you got from Ace sucks! I think if I remember it right your beef with ace was that he knowingly may have sold you a bird/birds that may suck and not to your standards.

Unfortunately even Champion fanciers have birds that sucks. They can't possibly breed all good birds and birds not race is a mystery performance wise. So we have races, even this loft race right now to test those birds. If you have bred those birds that you got from Ace maybe you can test it by entering in this annual PT race. You may never know what you gonna get. There are birds that suck in racing, but awesome breeders and vice-versa.


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## NayNay

Good point re who knows what those birds would produce- even in my newbie-ness I have gathered that the genetics and such are still a crap shoot. If it was not so complex, then we humans would have managed to breed all animals to perfection each and every time by now. But good genes can hide out, not showing in a bird, but passing to their offspring, if mated with another bird with some good genes. It is certainly an art as well as a science. 

But, if I had a bird I didn't like, I would give it away, instead of having it there lookin at me every day. Live and learn, right? 

I've heard of $3 no pedigree birds that fly like a dream, and I've heard of $300 birds that get lost going for a drink of water. When you buy a bird, you are buying a dream, buying a potential that you *hope* will materialize. I think that's what makes it interesting- breeding towards a goal, and looking for birds that will help you reach that goal.


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## MaryOfExeter

NayNay said:


> Good point re who knows what those birds would produce- even in my newbie-ness I have gathered that the genetics and such are still a crap shoot. If it was not so complex, then we humans would have managed to breed all animals to perfection each and every time by now. *But good genes can hide out, not showing in a bird, but passing to their offspring, if mated with another bird with some good genes.* It is certainly an art as well as a science.
> 
> But, if I had a bird I didn't like, I would give it away, instead of having it there lookin at me every day. Live and learn, right?
> 
> I've heard of $3 no pedigree birds that fly like a dream, and I've heard of $300 birds that get lost going for a drink of water. When you buy a bird, you are buying a dream, buying a potential that you *hope* will materialize. I think that's what makes it interesting- breeding towards a goal, and looking for birds that will help you reach that goal.


That is very, very true. Unfortunately it works just as much the other way around!


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## hillfamilyloft

JaxRacingLofts said:


> Randy,
> I am not bashing anyones pigeons I only said I do not want those birds breeding with my stock. I even said The VP of the AU said how they handle doesn't matter for sprint birds (deep keeled/ loose vents/ weak back) Race'em.
> Your loft partner is too insecure of my opinion of his birds and started this back track.
> 
> Its amazing to me that I say I do not like someones pigeons and all hell breaks loose...but I ask if any PT member will help Rackerman compete in the PT Classic and only 1 PT member stepped up and offered to help him get in the race??? Go figure on where peoples priorities are


I was not really refering to what you were saying about the birds but you calling him "AceHole". Similar to someone calling you "JaxA$%". Also Mark is not my loft partner, but someone who is on the same mission as me. We share birds to establish better winning stock. Like I do with many fanciers. Funny how most everyone that has received birds from us benefits from this system and wins races. You thinking the birds are "crap" and not breeding from them gives you no chance from seeing what they can do. Those of us who know the story here know of it as a mistrust between the two of you. But yet you try and bring us all into your war. I cannot speak for the rest of the forum, but I know I am getting tired of it. You using this forum to poke jabs at "Ace" shows little integrity in my book. This is the PT race forum, not your personal boxing ring. You used my Grizzle Bird forum to do the same thing. Make your own "I hate Ace" Forum so we do not have to read this garbage in places unrelated. As for offering someone birds, good for you. I did the same this year. Its like I tell my kids, make every behavior good. Being good only once does not cure them of being a brat. I judge people by how they treat me. To be honest with you, Mark has been nothing but honest and a gentleman. Seeing what you are posting in here does make me judge your character though. Race them, test them, and get over it. And leave the rest of us out of it.


----------



## Pigeon0446

NayNay said:


> Good point re who knows what those birds would produce- even in my newbie-ness I have gathered that the genetics and such are still a crap shoot. If it was not so complex, then we humans would have managed to breed all animals to perfection each and every time by now. But good genes can hide out, not showing in a bird, but passing to their offspring, if mated with another bird with some good genes. It is certainly an art as well as a science.
> 
> But, if I had a bird I didn't like, I would give it away, instead of having it there lookin at me every day. Live and learn, right?
> 
> I've heard of $3 no pedigree birds that fly like a dream, and I've heard of $300 birds that get lost going for a drink of water. When you buy a bird, you are buying a dream, buying a potential that you *hope* will materialize. I think that's what makes it interesting- breeding towards a goal, and looking for birds that will help you reach that goal.


Your post reminded me of an auction I went to about a month ago. And all the guys are checking over the birds feeling them all up looking at their eye's and down their throat. And all the other crap ppl do when they are looking a the birds in the auction. Then one guy asked one of the guys doing all these dif things to try to find what they believe is the perfect bird. "What are you looking for? If we knew what to look for we wouldn't be here buying a bird for an auction race. We'd already know who was gonna win the race." I know it's not on the same topic but I thought it was a good story and kinda related. In that if it was that easy to pick out the best it would have already been done. Just like if it was that easy t breed the best it would already have been done.


----------



## Pigeon0446

JaxRacingLofts said:


> Randy,
> I am not bashing anyones pigeons I only said I do not want those birds breeding with my stock. I even said The VP of the AU said how they handle doesn't matter for sprint birds (deep keeled/ loose vents/ weak back) Race'em.
> Your loft partner is too insecure of my opinion of his birds and started this back track.
> 
> Its amazing to me that I say I do not like someones pigeons and all hell breaks loose...but I ask if any PT member will help Rackerman compete in the PT Classic and only 1 PT member stepped up and offered to help him get in the race??? Go figure on where peoples priorities are


I feel ppl should be able to speak their mind you didn't like Ace's birds for whatever reason that's you choice. I can't say anything either way because I've never had any of his birds or really had any dealings with him I read the other threads with all the bs that went on with you guys so be it. It really don't matter to me. But atleast you have his birds and know what they are and you talked crap about them. When I first joined this forum I posted pics of some of my birds and I had ppl putting down my birds but nobody stuck up for me because it was one of the ppl that the ppl on here thought was some god in the pigeon world but really isn't all that impressive to ppl who know more about the sport. But what can you do your always gonna have ppl who are jealous of what they can't have. 

Sorry for taking this thread off topic again but it just bothers me certain ppl can say almost anything and nobody says anything but others would get ostracised. If they were to say the same thing. Sorry once again.


----------



## rpalmer

Pigeon0446 said:


> I feel ppl should be able to speak their mind you didn't like Ace's birds for whatever reason that's you choice. I can't say anything either way because I've never had any of his birds or really had any dealings with him I read the other threads with all the bs that went on with you guys so be it. It really don't matter to me. But atleast you have his birds and know what they are and you talked crap about them. When I first joined this forum I posted pics of some of my birds and I had ppl putting down my birds but nobody stuck up for me because it was one of the ppl that the ppl on here thought was some god in the pigeon world but really isn't all that impressive to ppl who know more about the sport. But what can you do your always gonna have ppl who are jealous of what they can't have.
> 
> Sorry for taking this thread off topic again but it just bothers me certain ppl can say almost anything and nobody says anything but others would get ostracised. If they were to say the same thing. Sorry once again.


I would say welcome to my world Brother, but it appears that we have something in common with arm chair quarter backs. Stay tuned and watch and see. I think the critics out there could at least post the race sheets of the races they entered. Take care and have fun.


----------



## jpsnapdy

Pigeon0446 said:


> Your post reminded me of an auction I went to about a month ago. And all the guys are checking over the birds feeling them all up looking at their eye's and down their throat. And all the other crap ppl do when they are looking a the birds in the auction. Then one guy asked one of the guys doing all these dif things to try to find what they believe is the perfect bird. "What are you looking for? If we knew what to look for we wouldn't be here buying a bird for an auction race. We'd already know who was gonna win the race." I know it's not on the same topic but I thought it was a good story and kinda related. In that if it was that easy to pick out the best it would have already been done. Just like if it was that easy t breed the best it would already have been done.


Quite right. Like no visitors to my loft were ever able to spot my long standing champion hen because they all go by looks and this bird, though not an ugly one, was a very quiet pigeon. It always made me smile.


----------



## JaxRacingLofts

Pigeon0446 said:


> I feel ppl should be able to speak their mind you didn't like Ace's birds for whatever reason that's you choice. I can't say anything either way because I've never had any of his birds or really had any dealings with him I read the other threads with all the bs that went on with you guys so be it. It really don't matter to me. But at least you have his birds and know what they are and you talked crap about them. When I first joined this forum I posted pics of some of my birds and I had ppl putting down my birds but nobody stuck up for me because it was one of the ppl that the ppl on here thought was some god in the pigeon world but really isn't all that impressive to ppl who know more about the sport. But what can you do your always gonna have ppl who are jealous of what they can't have.
> 
> Sorry for taking this thread off topic again but it just bothers me certain ppl can say almost anything and nobody says anything but others would get ostracised. If they were to say the same thing. Sorry once again.



I did not take this thread off topic...I was asked a direct question and I replied. If they did not want my opinion they shouldn't ask for it. 
On ebay sellers can't bash customers from giving their feedback and reasons for it. 
On here *they* will try to get you banned if it might hurt their feather peddling. 

" So when they poke fun calling me "jaxtex" its all alright...but when I poke back they get all uptight "~ kid rock verse amended to the PT classic 

Anyway, I'm glad I am not the only one that See's this is bullying. Happy Racing people and sorry Rackerman I tried to help ya get in the races and this got way way way derailed..which is easier for them then actually helping another person.


----------



## conditionfreak

Not to change the subject here (what is the subject anyway, the P T Classic?), but yesterday I had an interesting experience (for me anyway) that I thought I would share.

I went to visit a friend and drop off some birds for a money race in the Cleveland, Ohio area. I met my friend at a pigeon auction for the upcoming (in October I believe) GNEO race. First place money is apparently $10,000. The birds in this race not only have to be banded with money bands, but also each bird is auctioned off to a handler.

This not not near as big financially as many one loft races most of you are familiar with, but it is a decent sum that a lucky person can win.

Anyway, the interesting part for me was that there were at least one hundred flyers there. I have never seen such a thing before. One hundred pigeon racing enthusiasts all together in one place. The most I have ever seen previously was maybe twenty.

I am sure that some of you have went to conventions and observed many more together at once, and I am sure that some of you routinely see numbers like that (in NY, Springhill Fla, ect). But to me it was unique.

I met a couple of "new to the sport" people there. It was encouraging. I don't know if it has anything to do with the Mike Tyson shows about pigeons, but I suspect it may. The ones I met were in the beginning phases of building their first lofts and obtaining their first birds. As usually with us humans, they were buying birds before their lofts were actually completed. (that was the way I started also) 

I didn't see but a couple of people under 40 though, and they were there with their fathers I believe. There were maybe fifteen that I would say were in their 40's and the rest were old guys like me, with maybe four female flyers also in attendance.

It was kind of fun to have so many people together in one place, that spoke the same "language". Maybe that is why I like to visit this forum so often. We speak the same language. Tell a non-pigeon person about a "pin tail" or "eye sign" and you will get a perplexed look on their face. I bet even a veterinarian, poultry farmer or zoo keeper would not know what the heck you were referring to.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

JaxRacingLofts said:


> I did not take this thread off topic...I was asked a direct question and I replied. If they did not want my opinion they shouldn't ask for it.
> On ebay sellers can't bash customers from giving their feedback and reasons for it.
> On here *they* will try to get you banned if it might hurt their feather peddling.
> 
> " So when they poke fun calling me "jaxtex" its all alright...but when I poke back they get all uptight "~ kid rock verse amended to the PT classic
> 
> Anyway, I'm glad I am not the only one that See's this is bullying. Happy Racing people and sorry Rackerman I tried to help ya get in the races and this got way way way derailed..which is easier for them then actually helping another person.


Exactly my point. You and Ace need to quit using these posts for bullying each other and name calling. This really is none of our business or concern. So please take it somewhere else. This is the PT race thread. Lets talk about racing. Make a I hate the world post somewhere else. 

The facts are that you bought some birds from ACE and brought your friend with you. Ace accused you and your friend of stealing a bird or two while you were there.(speculation) He apologized publicly. You were angry. You offered some of the birds to me later, Ace told me that I did not want any of the birds that I was looking for something else, You took that as the birds were "crap". (speculation) You never bred or tested the birds. You and ACE continue to bicker about the subject in this public forum.(Fact) We know the facts. Let us make our judgement. I have had dealing with the both of you and other than your treatment of each other, have not had any problems with either.(both don't seem to be all that bad) If this were a court of law this case would have been thrown out a long time ago. The only fact here is you don't like each other. This issue should have its own forum. The trash can. As for the birds, give them to someone who will appreciate them so they do not have to suffer in spite.


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

Timber said:


> Things are going good thus far. I cant wait to turn them out though!


Glad to hear everything is going well! Are you going to do video updates and stuff like that for the rae?



hillfamilyloft said:


> This is Nuggets Country!


I give the Nuggets credit for doing what they've done without Carmelo Anthony. George Karl is a great coach but it'll be a tough series with OKC in the first round.


Flap - How are things going!


----------



## NayNay

> if it was that easy to pick out the best it would have already been done. Just like if it was that easy t breed the best it would already have been done.


Yes, this was my point exactly, and the PT Classic seems like a great way to test out how everybody's breeding programs are doing. This year I will be an eager spectator, and hopefully next year, I will be able to send my own birds as part of my learning curve. Racing is exciting, but breeding is what is really interesting to me- figuring out how to improve the bloodlines in your loft, over time to be able to consistently produce quality racers. That is the kind of intellectual and spiritual journey that attracted me to this sport- plus being a washed up jock looking for an arena to compete in without having to put my tired and beat to heck old body through any more pain.


----------



## Big T

conditionfreak said:


> Ha Ha.
> 
> Anyway, you know what they say about "squids". The definition of a "squid" is a "low form of Marine life". Ha Ha (look it up in your Websters). Ha Ha ha
> 
> Comparing sailors and jarheads to pigeons. Let's just characterize it this way. The Marines actually go through the trap. The Navy just gets the Marines to the landing board, park..., and watch the Marines go into the trap.
> 
> Sailors do have their place in the word. Much like bus and cab drivers.
> 
> Ha ha Ha Ha (we could do this kind of stuff all day, couldn't we BigT)



I agree, and as alway a pleasure to disagree. This race and this thread is for *FUN!!!* I been reading a few posts that like ours ,(skunk), get off subject, but at least we keep it fun. I not sure about others, but pigeons and this site is my hobby. My way to releave stress and to find enjoyment. We tease and kid one another and that is ok. Sometimes we do business with one another and like all business transactions, sometimes we feel we didn't get what we pay for. Buying birds is always a flip of the coin. Might be a good deal, might not. There are too many variables when dealing with a life and money that can go wrong. I keep my business with the people on this forum in the PMs and use the threads to ask questions, answer questions, find birds I'm looking for, or to let people know I have birds. But when it comes to the business side, we PM one another. I have gotten a couple of bad deals, and I have gotten some great birds. But I like to follow my mother's rule, "If you can't say something nice, then say nothing at all."

God Bless and may you all come in second,
Tony

PS The definition of a "squid" is a "Biological life form that floats around the oceans and poops on Marine life." Like our pigeons do to us.


----------



## rackerman

conditionfreak said:


> Rackerman. That is a bummer about your pairing. I can give you two birds for the PT competition, if you want. They would be ready in about two weeks. I have several pairs to choose from.
> 
> The way I see it is like this. If I purchase some young birds from Ganus (or whomever) and send them to a one loft race, they are still my birds. So, if someone gives me some young birds for the PT competition, they are still my birds. They were not bred by me, but they are now my property and come back to me after the competition.
> 
> They belong to you if I provide them to you. I obtained birds from "ace in the hole", that he bred, and I have no problems at all accepting diplomas from my combine, if Ace's birds win for me. They are my birds. If an adopted son becomes a war hero, would the father that adopted him not be proud?
> 
> It's up to you. If interested I can send you a PM and tell you about the pairs I have with young and you can choose which you like. You can even send me one dollar to make it an official purchase, if you want.
> 
> It really is a lot of fun reading about how the birds are doing throughout the season, and also to watch the videos. I can even provide you a bird that has a decent chance of winning the "prettiest bird" contest, and will fly well also.


conditionfreak, I sent you a PM on your offer and I have not heard back from you, are you getting my PM???

Russ


----------



## conditionfreak

I did not receive the PM rackerman. My inbox was full. I have somewhat emptied it and have sent you a PM.


----------



## rackerman

conditionfreak said:


> I did not receive the PM rackerman. My inbox was full. I have somewhat emptied it and have sent you a PM.


Sent you a PM.


----------



## Flapdoodle

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> ....
> 
> 
> Flap - How are things going!


Hi all... things are going great on my end. There is just not enough time in day. The birds look good. We have the first two sections full and are working on number three. 

For those shipping this week please send me a PM with tracking info. We have a few that plan to ship next week as well.

Please be sure to send early next week. *If at all possible please do not ship birds after Monday April 25th.* I will be out of town May 5, 6, and 7th. I want all the birds early the week before I go. I want to be sure all the birds are eating and drinking on there own without any problems before I leave. 

We will open up shipping for one more week on May 9th. 

After my trip my extra time will not be split and I can spend more time on birds, posts, videos and such. As I recall that is what happened last year. 

Again hope all is well.


----------



## Gnuretiree

I'm going to the post office later this afternoon with 2 birds. Hope I don't run into a line of late filers. I forgot that they had extended the deadline until today. I'll send the tracking info this evening.


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

Flapdoodle said:


> Hi all... things are going great on my end. There is just not enough time in day. The birds look good. We have the first two sections full and are working on number three.
> 
> For those shipping this week please send me a PM with tracking info. We have a few that plan to ship next week as well.
> 
> Please be sure to send early next week. *If at all possible please do not ship birds after Monday April 25th.* I will be out of town May 5, 6, and 7th. I want all the birds early the week before I go. I want to be sure all the birds are eating and drinking on there own without any problems before I leave.
> 
> We will open up shipping for one more week on May 9th.
> 
> After my trip my extra time will not be split and I can spend more time on birds, posts, videos and such. As I recall that is what happened last year.
> 
> Again hope all is well.


This is good news! The videos and updates should help keep the tension down in this thread. People are getting a little antsy!  

We've got conditionfreak posting pictures of albino skunks and self portraits! Handsome fellow but I'd rather see some birds!


----------



## Gnuretiree

Two birds shipped today at 3:30 - Just sent payment to your paypal account. Hope they get there quickly.


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

I wonder how many birds total are in so far...


----------



## bbcdon

It would really have been neat if we had all chipped in and had a live cam in the loft.


----------



## bbcdon

Gnuretiree said:


> Two birds shipped today at 3:30 - Just sent payment to your paypal account. Hope they get there quickly.


It has been my experience that when birds are shipped from the east coast to the west coast, they usually arrive the next day.


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

bbcdon said:


> It has been my experience that when birds are shipped from the east coast to the west coast, they usually arrive the next day.


My experience has been 2 days on the dot every time.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> My experience has been 2 days on the dot every time.


Me too  Everywhere else is either there the next morning or the afternoon.


----------



## Gnuretiree

I've got a promised delivery before 3PM on Wednesday. I just checked the tracking info and nothing has changed from the first report that they have the box. I'd feel better if it had made it to an air terminal by now.


----------



## conditionfreak

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> We've got conditionfreak posting pictures of albino skunks and self portraits! Handsome fellow but I'd rather see some birds!


Which is the handsome fellow, me or the skunk?

If I was a handsome girl, you wouldn't be complaining so much I think.


----------



## ace in the hole

conditionfreak said:


> If I was a handsome girl, you wouldn't be complaining so much I think.


I never heard of a girl being handsome. Well, I guess maybe if it had an addams apple.


----------



## conditionfreak

Ha Ha.

From Dictionary.com:

1. having an attractive, well-proportioned, and imposing appearance suggestive of health and strength; good-looking: a handsome man; a handsome woman. 

2. having pleasing proportions, relationships, or arrangements, as of shapes, forms, or colors; attractive: a handsome house; a handsome interior.

You just need to think out of the box more, Ace. 

I saw a very handsome woman with an adams apple, in the Phillipines back in '74 one night. I was....oh, nevermind. I remember now that it didn't turn out so well. 

Some bonafide woman do have an adams apple. It is not a sure thing that it is NOT a real woman, when you see an adams apple. Just most of the time.  (I looked it up)


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

conditionfreak said:


> Which is the handsome fellow, me or the skunk?
> 
> If I was a handsome girl, you wouldn't be complaining so much I think.


I probably wouldn't!


----------



## Gnuretiree

I just tried to track the birds I sent yesterday and see no change from Acceptance of Package status. I'm guessing tracking on packages mailed on tax filing day is probably overloaded and not working - at least I am hoping that is the problem.


----------



## Big T

conditionfreak said:


> Which is the handsome fellow, me or the skunk?
> 
> If I was a handsome girl, you wouldn't be complaining so much I think.


Handsome girl Marine? Do they exist? Focus, Tony, Focus!! This is a pigeon site. Talk about pigeons. So did my beautiful winning whites make it?

Tony


----------



## Southwing

Shipped mine on Monday and nothing has changed, but the post office said they will be their on Wed, so I guess 2 days praying.


----------



## Josepe

Someitmes the tracking info doesn't show every single move.Sometimes it only shows the acceptence and arrival at destination.The postal system is usually deligent in getting live animals to their destination ASAP because they're responsible for their safe arrival.Some of yous worry too much.Relax,you're birds will get there in adequate time.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Big T said:


> Handsome girl Marine? Do they exist? Focus, Tony, Focus!! This is a pigeon site. Talk about pigeons. So did my beautiful winning whites make it?
> 
> Tony


One of my High School Girl Friends joined the Marines. She was quite lovely. She was even a cheerleader. She drove a tank. Babes in Camo.


----------



## Gnuretiree

I got notified that the pigeons I sent have arrived at the Newcastle, Ca Post Office about a half hour ago. What a relief. I sent them out at 3:30 Monday afternoon from Connecticut. Not bad time in transit, but I wish they would have tracked the progress for me.


----------



## conditionfreak

Over several years of receiving and shipping birds via the post office, I have found them to be very reliable. Always two days, no matter where they are coming from or going to.

But I did reaad on here once that someone shppied three birds in a box and when it arrived there was only one bird in it.

Speculation at the time was that someone who works for the postal authority, opened the box out of curiousity and a couple of birds got out. Others speculated that the box was dropped and opened up, and birds got out.

But I have shipped and received about three dozen times over the last three years and never had a problem. Very reliable as far as I am concerned.

It should be, as it is very expensive nowadays. Half a buck to send a letter.


----------



## Gnuretiree

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> This is good news! The videos and updates should help keep the tension down in this thread. People are getting a little antsy!
> 
> We've got conditionfreak posting pictures of albino skunks and self portraits! Handsome fellow but I'd rather see some birds!


I for one am getting more than a little antsy. I agree I'd like to see some pictures of birds.... failing that I'll take cheerleaders though.


----------



## Big T

Gnuretiree said:


> I for one am getting more than a little antsy. I agree I'd like to see some pictures of birds.... failing that I'll take cheerleaders though.


Now that is funny!!! I just want to know the birds made it. Having done this last year, I know the birds are in good hands once Flap has them.

Tony


----------



## Flapdoodle

*More birds today!!*

Birds from:

Hugh McQuillan (what is your forum name)
Big T
Lucky Loft
Mike Parrish (forum name?)

Sorry about not remembering forum names. Shoot me a PM so I can update my spreadsheet. 

Anyone else ship this week? Who is in for next week? Next week (Monday please) is the last day to ship. 

I have a few that are going to be shipping later. If you need or want other arrangements please shoot me a PM. 

Hope all is well with everyone!


----------



## conditionfreak

As I understand it, the last week for shipping is May 9th week. In your opinion Flapdoodle, will birds received by you that week, be old enough come race time? When is the first race?


----------



## loonecho

*The bird I almost sent to the PT classic*

Here is the bird I almost sent to the classic in an effort to win "prettiest pigeon" But I couldn't bear to part with him so he stayed home. I almost lost him to a Coopers last Sunday. He was hit and lost a few feathers as I watched, but he kept on flying and returned to the loft with his nest mate about ten minutes later. 

Jim


----------



## PigeonVilla

loonecho said:


> Here is the bird I almost sent to the classic in an effort to win "prettiest pigeon" But I couldn't bear to part with him so he stayed home. I almost lost him to a Coopers last Sunday. He was hit and lost a few feathers as I watched, but he kept on flying and returned to the loft with his nest mate about ten minutes later.
> 
> Jim


 Now thats a very pretty bird , hope it makes it through the season for you .


----------



## Crazy Pete

I may have to wait for May, I was going to ship Monday but one of the young has a bum leg for some reason. Maybe I should send the other and see if I can find some thing to put with it.
Dave


----------



## Josepe

*Any Need Two Birds For The PT Race??*

My new breeders this year were late getting settled to my loft and breeding and laying,and have laid sporaticly.Didn't think I'd have any in time for the race,so Randy generously sent two for me.After looking at my four pair of young ones today and checking hatching dates it appears that I'll have two pair of squeekers that will be 30 days old on May 3rd.Since Flap has extended the shipping dates some I'm willing to donate two birds to anyone who still wants to get in the race.I will pay the entry fee,but you would have to send me a shipping box + expense to cover the shipping.I would cover all costs,but I'm a little finacially strained at this time.One pair are blue bars - Janssen/Van Loon(mother carries Super 73 blood) the other pair are Grizzles-Janssen/Geerts/Bandit cross.I would send one from each pair or the blue bar nestmates.Anyone interested can PM me.I'd like to help someone as Randy and Aris has helped me this year.


----------



## conditionfreak

loonecho said:


> Here is the bird I almost sent to the classic in an effort to win "prettiest pigeon" But I couldn't bear to part with him so he stayed home. I almost lost him to a Coopers last Sunday. He was hit and lost a few feathers as I watched, but he kept on flying and returned to the loft with his nest mate about ten minutes later.
> 
> Jim


I have one that looks like that. Maybe I can take a pic and post it here sometime.


----------



## Xueoo

Mine will go on the 9th or 10th. I'll be sending a single. This past Sunday a raccoon got to one of the youngsters and killed it. Took off the head. I've had **** problems before. All openings looked to be sealed, but, I know these guys are smart and will find a way to get inside. 

Flap, I'll paypal you back your half of the band money by this weekend.


----------



## rpalmer

Xueoo said:


> Mine will go on the 9th or 10th. I'll be sending a single. This past Sunday a raccoon got to one of the youngsters and killed it. Took off the head. I've had **** problems before. All openings looked to be sealed, but, I know these guys are smart and will find a way to get inside.
> 
> Flap, I'll paypal you back your half of the band money by this weekend.


Set up a trail cam or two. They will let you know.


----------



## rackerman

*conditionfreak, Are you getting my PMS'??? I sent you a money order yesterday.......*


conditionfreak said:


> As I understand it, the last week for shipping is May 9th week. In your opinion Flapdoodle, will birds received by you that week, be old enough come race time? When is the first race?


----------



## MaryOfExeter

loonecho said:


> Here is the bird I almost sent to the classic in an effort to win "prettiest pigeon" But I couldn't bear to part with him so he stayed home. I almost lost him to a Coopers last Sunday. He was hit and lost a few feathers as I watched, but he kept on flying and returned to the loft with his nest mate about ten minutes later.
> 
> Jim


VERY pretty indeed! I love undergrizzle  I had a bird that looked very much like that named Mary Jo.


----------



## TylerBro

Xueoo said:


> Mine will go on the 9th or 10th. I'll be sending a single. This past Sunday a raccoon got to one of the youngsters and killed it. Took off the head. I've had **** problems before. All openings looked to be sealed, but, I know these guys are smart and will find a way to get inside.
> 
> Flap, I'll paypal you back your half of the band money by this weekend.


i found that if you go to the local barber and ask for your clippings and maybe some other people if your not shy and put them around your loft it kinda helps ... helped with my chickens


----------



## conditionfreak

TylerBro said:


> i found that if you go to the local barber and ask for your clippings and maybe some other people if your not shy and put them around your loft it kinda helps ... helped with my chickens


Man, that one just zinged over my head because I don't understand what the heck you are talking about? I feel stupid.  I can only guess you mean that the human smell keeps the racoons away. Is that what you meant?


----------



## pattersonk2002

*shipping*



Flapdoodle said:


> Birds from:
> 
> Hugh McQuillan (what is your forum name)
> Big T
> Lucky Loft
> Mike Parrish (forum name?)
> 
> Sorry about not remembering forum names. Shoot me a PM so I can update my spreadsheet.
> 
> Anyone else ship this week? Who is in for next week? Next week (Monday please) is the last day to ship.
> 
> I have a few that are going to be shipping later. If you need or want other arrangements please shoot me a PM.
> 
> Hope all is well with everyone!


 Trying hard to get birds out on Monday. My Father is very ill so I am not sure at this time. If I don't ship Monday I guess I am out. >Kevin


----------



## Big T

conditionfreak said:


> Man, that one just zinged over my head because I don't understand what the heck you are talking about? I feel stupid.  I can only guess you mean that the human smell keeps the racoons away. Is that what you meant?


Yes, hair smell means you are still around. You can piss on the loft also to keep them away but in truth, nothing works 100% except a completely locked up tight loft. But then raccoons have broken in.

Tony


----------



## rackerman

*Pattersonk2002?*

*Kevin, I am so sorry to hear about your dad. You still have the last day of May 9th to ship. Tom is taking birds for that last week. Hope all gets better for your Dad.*


pattersonk2002 said:


> Trying hard to get birds out on Monday. My Father is very ill so I am not sure at this time. If I don't ship Monday I guess I am out. >Kevin


----------



## Gnuretiree

pattersonk2002 said:


> Trying hard to get birds out on Monday. My Father is very ill so I am not sure at this time. If I don't ship Monday I guess I am out. >Kevin


Hope your father is doing better and you get to ship today.


----------



## Gnuretiree

Flapdoodle said:


> Hi all... things are going great on my end. There is just not enough time in day. The birds look good. We have the first two sections full and are working on number three.
> 
> For those shipping this week please send me a PM with tracking info. We have a few that plan to ship next week as well.
> 
> Please be sure to send early next week. *If at all possible please do not ship birds after Monday April 25th.* I will be out of town May 5, 6, and 7th. I want all the birds early the week before I go. I want to be sure all the birds are eating and drinking on there own without any problems before I leave.
> 
> We will open up shipping for one more week on May 9th.
> 
> After my trip my extra time will not be split and I can spend more time on birds, posts, videos and such. As I recall that is what happened last year.
> 
> Again hope all is well.


Just a bump up to see how things are going? You should have birds from just about everybody by now - I hope everything is settled and you can enjoy yourself while away next week.


----------



## Big T

Gnuretiree said:


> Just a bump up to see how things are going? You should have birds from just about everybody by now - I hope everything is settled and you can enjoy yourself while away next week.


Now comes the work for Flap and the fun for us. Regardless who wins, may all the birds make it back to the loft, (behind mine).

Tony


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

I wonder how many birds total so far.....

Can't wait for the updates to start. It was great last year following the races and training with videos from Tom. I hope we have the same experience this year! Hint...Hint...


----------



## Josepe

Looking forward to updates also.It'll be nice to get regular feedback and pics as to what's going on in Raceville,and Who's Who from week to week.With birds from all over the Country it'll sure be a deversity of genetics.


----------



## Josepe

*Anyone Heard From Flap?*

Anyone heard if Flap's back?


----------



## MaryOfExeter

He's probably exhausted from all the running, biking, and swimming!


----------



## Big T

Josepe said:


> Anyone heard if Flap's back?


Next two weeks he is out of town, so look for him near the end of May.

Tony


----------



## drifter

Flapdoodle said:


> Hi all... things are going great on my end. There is just not enough time in day. The birds look good. We have the first two sections full and are working on number three.
> 
> For those shipping this week please send me a PM with tracking info. We have a few that plan to ship next week as well.
> 
> Please be sure to send early next week. *If at all possible please do not ship birds after Monday April 25th.* I will be out of town May 5, 6, and 7th. I want all the birds early the week before I go. I want to be sure all the birds are eating and drinking on there own without any problems before I leave.
> 
> We will open up shipping for one more week on May 9th.
> 
> After my trip my extra time will not be split and I can spend more time on birds, posts, videos and such. As I recall that is what happened last year.
> 
> Again hope all is well.


He's probably back by now.


----------



## Gnuretiree

How many more people intend to ship? Since this is the final week, we are either there are very close to knowing what the season will look like. Do we have more or less birds than last year? As someone mentioned earlier, now the work really begins for Flap - not that he hasn't been busy so far - just trips to the post office must have eaten up time.


----------



## Flapdoodle

*I am home you can send the birds*

I got home last night. I will go back and respond to posts a little later today.


----------



## Big T

Flapdoodle said:


> I got home last night. I will go back and respond to posts a little later today.


OK, now how did you do??

Tony


----------



## Crazy Pete

I didn't think he would post any more last night, after a race like that all you really want to do is take a break and give the family a big hug. And maybe go to bed early.
Dave


----------



## rackerman

*My birds will be there Wednesday. Thanks to Conditionfreak!! Thanks Walt........*


----------



## First To Hatch

My birds should be there tomorrow: 
AU 2011 21582 Blue Bar
AU 2011 21583 Grizzle


----------



## conditionfreak

Hey rackerman. They got there Tuesday. Only 24 hours across the country. Gotta love USPS.

(this time)


----------



## rackerman

*Thats great Walt!! I got the news from Tom too!!
Thank you, your a great person to help out.
GOOD LUCK..........*


conditionfreak said:


> Hey rackerman. They got there Tuesday. Only 24 hours across the country. Gotta love USPS.
> 
> (this time)


----------



## conditionfreak

It was nothing. I sent birds for you that are going to finish behind my birds. I fed them B-B's to weigh them down.

It actually was a brilliant plan on my part.  (I am at this moment patting myself on the back for my master plan. First the PT competition, then the world. Bwaaahaha).


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

Still no word from our man Tom. I wonder how the birds are doing.


----------



## rackerman

*2nd place will be just fine........*


conditionfreak said:


> It was nothing. I sent birds for you that are going to finish behind my birds. I fed them B-B's to weigh them down.
> 
> It actually was a brilliant plan on my part.  (I am at this moment patting myself on the back for my master plan. First the PT competition, then the world. Bwaaahaha).


----------



## swagg

conditionfreak said:


> It was nothing. I sent birds for you that are going to finish behind my birds. I fed them B-B's to weigh them down.


Lol, thats great. But now watch those birds fly super fast and you'll have people trying to feed em B-B's


----------



## rackerman

conditionfreak said:


> It was nothing. I sent birds for you that are going to finish behind my birds. I fed them B-B's to weigh them down.
> 
> It actually was a brilliant plan on my part.  (I am at this moment patting myself on the back for my master plan. First the PT competition, then the world. Bwaaahaha).


Oh Walt,
I forgot to tell you, I sent Tom BBs', just to feed your birds..........


----------



## conditionfreak

Curses!! Foiled again!!!!


----------



## blongboy

i wonder how my birds are doing? ....Flap who is getting the top perches?? mine right?


----------



## TylerBro

Umm would it work to feed my breeders not raised in my loft .. so they won't be able to leave ?? Ha ha ..Maybe ur onto a ground running pigeon race ..idea ..


----------



## NayNay

TylerBro said:


> Umm would it work to feed my breeders not raised in my loft .. so they won't be able to leave ?? Ha ha ..Maybe ur onto a ground running pigeon race ..idea ..


Pigeon foot race- Awesome!


----------



## rackerman

*Waiting to hear from Tom for updates!!*


----------



## Josepe

Looking forward to updates also! Which I'm sure Tom will get to shortly.


----------



## eyespyer

Josepe said:


> Looking forward to updates also! Which I'm sure Tom will get to shortly.


Yes
Looking forward to seeing the new loft and watching some of the training 
I followed the training last year, it was fun to see. This year it will be better, because I have birds in this years race. I also liked the pretty bird contest 
I will not win the pretty bird contest, my birds are ugly but fast.....LOL


----------



## ace in the hole

eyespyer said:


> Yes
> Looking forward to seeing the new loft and watching some of the training
> I followed the training last year, it was fun to see. This year it will be better, because I have birds in this years race. I also liked the pretty bird contest
> I will not win the pretty bird contest, my birds are ugly but fast.....LOL


It's always the ugly ones. I think they fly faster so the other birds won't pick on em.


----------



## conditionfreak

Mine won the prettiest bird contest last year and it actually survived the entire season amd lost the 300 mile race to "Vanilla Ice" by only a couple of seconds. So I was happy with that.

I don't expect to win the prettiest bird thing again this year (but it is possible). But I do expect to win more points. Especially with SFL not in it (he knows to quit on top before one of us amateurs beats him). 

No one can ever make the claim that Warren is not one smart fellow.


----------



## Xueoo

My single bird shows delivered today. Sorry Tom for not giving you notice. With a 7 month old baby and a 5 year old running around, and the wife’s and my work schedules, there's not much time left for play. I'm happy I was even able to send one this year.

I was really excited about this pairing. Both parents are well conformed and have the physical look and feel I like. However, as I posted before, both have not been outside the loft or even seen the sun, and, this particular line have not been raced for a good 6-7 generations. Wait, the cock did see the sun once and I may write more about that later. 

I said "was" because as it turned out, these young very late hatch parents didn't do a good job of feeding the babies. At about a week and a half old, the hen laid again and they both started to tend to the new eggs on the floor and neglected the baby. I also didn't provide quality feed for them either. They pretty much ate scratch grains the whole time with no supplements. As I said before, one got killed by a raccoon, and the one survivor did not grow up well. The baby came out thin. I hand fed it the last two days prior to shipping, so it gained a little weight, but still on the thin side. I do like the physical look to this bird and I think it will do well in the pretty contest should it still be around. How it fly’s still remains to be seen, but, I do like my chances despite it’s history, or lack of.


----------



## conditionfreak

Xueoo said:


> My single bird shows delivered today. Sorry Tom for not giving you notice. With a 7 month old baby and a 5 year old running around, and the wife’s and my work schedules, there's not much time left for play. I'm happy I was even able to send one this year.
> 
> I was really excited about this pairing. Both parents are well conformed and have the physical look and feel I like. However, as I posted before, both have not been outside the loft or even seen the sun, and, this particular line have not been raced for a good 6-7 generations. Wait, the cock did see the sun once and I may write more about that later.
> 
> I said "was" because as it turned out, these young very late hatch parents didn't do a good job of feeding the babies. At about a week and a half old, the hen laid again and they both started to tend to the new eggs on the floor and neglected the baby. I also didn't provide quality feed for them either. They pretty much ate scratch grains the whole time with no supplements. As I said before, one got killed by a raccoon, and the one survivor did not grow up well. The baby came out thin. I hand fed it the last two days prior to shipping, so it gained a little weight, but still on the thin side. I do like the physical look to this bird and I think it will do well in the pretty contest should it still be around. How it fly’s still remains to be seen, but, I do like my chances despite it’s history, or lack of.


I hope this is a joke. Because if it ain't and your bird beats my birds. I will have to re-think my whole involvement in this sport.


----------



## Xueoo

No joke. It was actually worse. I didn't want to go into the mice infested feed bin...the water that only gets changed every 2 weeks or so...the dirty loft that hasn't been cleaned in, like forever...

I'm hoping the bird will blossom at Tom's. I'm thinking the first couple races might be rough, then, she (?) will kick into gear and show some tail.


----------



## SouthTown Racers

Xueoo said:


> No joke. It was actually worse. I didn't want to go into the mice infested feed bin...the water that only gets changed every 2 weeks or so...the dirty loft that hasn't been cleaned in, like forever...
> 
> I'm hoping the bird will blossom at Tom's. I'm thinking the first couple races might be rough, then, she (?) will kick into gear and show some tail.


Are you serious??


----------



## Big T

Xueoo said:


> No joke. It was actually worse. I didn't want to go into the mice infested feed bin...the water that only gets changed every 2 weeks or so...the dirty loft that hasn't been cleaned in, like forever...
> 
> I'm hoping the bird will blossom at Tom's. I'm thinking the first couple races might be rough, then, she (?) will kick into gear and show some tail.


Smart plan. This bird is going to be so happy at Tom's loft that he cannot wait to get back. Remember, to us it is a race, but to the birds it just going home. Meanwhile, we all have ensure our birds were well fed, cleaned, checked over, and well taken care of. Then stuffed in a box and shipped away. Our birds might just want to hang out a while before going home.

Tony


----------



## rackerman

Xueoo said:


> No joke. It was actually worse. I didn't want to go into the mice infested feed bin...the water that only gets changed every 2 weeks or so...the dirty loft that hasn't been cleaned in, like forever...
> 
> I'm hoping the bird will blossom at Tom's. I'm thinking the first couple races might be rough, then, she (?) will kick into gear and show some tail.


Thats terriable.......... You are joking, I HOPE................


----------



## MaryOfExeter

I hope for my birds' sake that you aren't serious


----------



## conditionfreak

Ha Ha. I suspected a joke right off. But the more embelishment that got piled on, the more I am sure you are having a little fun there Xueoo. 

It don't matter how bad home is, pigeons always want to be home instead of anywhere else.

Unless there are no women pigeons there.


----------



## West

I think he's making humor of the fact that certain people played off their entries last year to try and save face if the bird didn't perform.


----------



## Xueoo

Wanna see pictures???


----------



## PigeonVilla

Xueoo said:


> Wanna see pictures???


I do I do !


----------



## Crazy Pete

Has any one herd anything from flap lately? Is he ok. That kind of training takes a lot out of you.
Dave


----------



## kbraden

Flapdoodle is fine, I spoke to Tom on the phone the other day, will be going to his house on Tuesday to drop off my entries. They won't arrive in a shipping box, they ride in a limo


----------



## Big T

kbraden said:


> Flapdoodle is fine, I spoke to Tom on the phone the other day, will be going to his house on Tuesday to drop off my entries. They won't arrive in a shipping box, they ride in a limo


Well the limo won't help them win a race!

Tony


----------



## RodSD

kbraden said:


> Flapdoodle is fine, I spoke to Tom on the phone the other day, will be going to his house on Tuesday to drop off my entries. They won't arrive in a shipping box, they ride in a limo


Your birds better win! If not let them walk to Flaps house next time. That would be a good exercise for them--No pain, no gain! (Hopefully someone can figure a hint of the joke intended).


----------



## Big T

RodSD said:


> Your birds better win! If not let them walk to Flaps house next time. That would be a good exercise for them--No pain, no gain! (Hopefully someone can figure a hint of the joke intended).


Shouldn't they swim, then bike, then jog over. But under no circumstance FLY!!! I see the irony in your joke.

Tony


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

kbraden said:


> Flapdoodle is fine, I spoke to Tom on the phone the other day, will be going to his house on Tuesday to drop off my entries. They won't arrive in a shipping box, they ride in a limo


Maybe you can take some pictures of the birds and give us an update while you're there!


----------



## blongboy

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> Maybe you can take some pictures of the birds and give us an update while you're there!


good thinking lol


----------



## Crazy Pete

Things didn't work out for me to ship last week, I emailed tom and did not get a reply. Do you think it would be ok if I shiped my birds today? He said in post 602 that he would keep the option open if need be.Not sure what to do.
Dave


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

I would make sure to get a response from Tom first before sending your birds. That would be the smartest thing to do. IMHO


----------



## Crazy Pete

Do you think i should call him?
Dave


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

I would if you I really wanted to ship my birds to him.


----------



## Crazy Pete

Well I called and left a message so I guess we'll just wait and see.
Dave


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

That's all you can do for now. I'm sure he'll respond to you soon. Hope your birds make it to the race.


----------



## Crazy Pete

Looks like I'm in, Tom just called and said send the birds.
Dave


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

Nice! Make sure you send ugly ones because people are predicting that the ugliest bird will win it this year!


----------



## rackerman

Crazy Pete said:


> Looks like I'm in, Tom just called and said send the birds.
> Dave


Thats good Dave!! I am glad your in also........ 
I think thats also a sign for last place too..........


----------



## rackerman

The waiting to hear from Tom is killing me, can't wait for an update.......
PLEASE, PLEASE TOM..............

I was also wondering, can we start a new thread on the race when the training starts?? I think that would be great. What do you all think about that?

HAPPY FLYING.


----------



## First To Hatch

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> Nice! Make sure you send ugly ones because people are predicting that the ugliest bird will win it this year!


Oh man I might be in luck! lol. I have a blue bar thats very dark colored and I have his nest mate in my loft you can tell that bird apart so easily because he is so ugly!!!


----------



## Crazy Pete

Last place is good, that would mean he didn't lose my birds in training.lol
Dave

When it comes to the pretty bird contest you guys may as well not enter, Thats mine


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

First To Hatch said:


> Oh man I might be in luck! lol. I have a blue bar thats very dark colored and I have his nest mate in my loft you can tell that bird apart so easily because he is so ugly!!!


Fortunately looks aren't important when it comes to racing!


----------



## kbraden

RodSD said:


> Your birds better win! If not let them walk to Flaps house next time. That would be a good exercise for them--No pain, no gain! (Hopefully someone can figure a hint of the joke intended).





g0ldenb0y55 said:


> Maybe you can take some pictures of the birds and give us an update while you're there!


Will see what I can do 

and if my birds fail me in this race season, they will be hanging their heads & walking home!


----------



## conditionfreak

Not pertaining to this thread, but I have a little story to help pass the time.

A pigeon racing friend of mine called me today and told me that he accidentially left a screen door to his breeding loft unlatched. He has a small bird dog that he uses to hunt with frequently, loose in his back yard. While my friend was away to a doctors appointment, this loose dog (he has a few more in kennels) got into the breeding loft and killed thirteen of his babies. My friend has several breeding boxes on the floor or just a foot up from the floor (bad idea in my opinion, but we all know how some birds just insist on nesting on the floor). 

It also got one adult bird. His best hen from last years races.

He was distraught and I had to talk him out of killing the dog. He is not going too, thank God. I explained he was the one who trained the dog as a bird dog and he was the one that did not latch the coop door (my friend is in his mid seventies, and as we all get older, we make mistakes like this. It just happens). It was not really the dogs fault.

Anyway, my friend was most upset about the adult hen that was killed, but was also very proud of her.

You see, he found her still on top of her two babies in the nest. He assumes (probably accurately) that she could have flown up to a higher perch and avoided the dog as did all of the other adult birds apparently. Leaving their babies to die at the mouth of the dog. But instead, in his finding of the evidence of the "crime" scene, she stayed on her nest and babies and attempted to fight off the dog, until she lost.

One heck of a mother pigeon there, I think. 

Reminds me of my grandmother. Gram kept me from being beat up a time or two. Probably saved my life once also, from a gang of boys with baseball bats who were after me and my younger brother. She was 99 pounds soaking wet, but fearless when it came to protecting us.

But....that is another story.

I have offered my friend some young birds, but he doesn't want any more and still has about 25 or so in another loft that he can race this year. Sad news though.


----------



## conditionfreak

Another story of today. I went out to my breeding loft this morning and found one dead adult bird and one dead three week old bird. The youngster was still in its nest with its sibling who was unharmed. The nest box is about four feet above the floor. The mother was on the floor across the way from the nest box.

I could find no reason for these two birds being dead, except the mother hens eyes were both pecked out and she had pecked marks around here nose (cere). No other signs of injury that could have come from a predator, and both birds seemed healthy yesterday. The nestmate to the deceased baby is very healthy.

I am at a loss to explain this finding. The only thing I can come up with, is that this hen was fighting in the nest box with another pigeon and the baby got killed in the fight.

Can pigeons kill other pigeons while fighting? When both are several years old and healthy? Might I have a "bully bird" in my loft?

P.S. I have ten pairs of breeders and fourteen nest boxes.


----------



## First To Hatch

That is a sad story conditionfreak, but very nice of you to offer him some young birds. As far as your birds go it does sound like your birds were fighting.


----------



## bbcdon

Sorry to hear about your loss.


----------



## conditionfreak

As strange as it sounds, I am starting to believe her mate killed her. He "drives" very hard. But what would have killed the 3 week old youngster of hers? Could it have been a male and he killed it out of jealousy? He is a very dominate cock bird. He has stolen nest boxes in the past, even when he already had two of his own.

Guess I will never know.

Unless it happens again.


----------



## Josepe

Flap? Updates?


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Flap will get to it. Just think for a minute. This is May, we are not flying until say late August. He will not even start training until say early July. Not all the birds are even in the loft. Most of the time they are sitting around. Maybe a few loft flying pretty well. There really is not that much to report. If you want to know how many times your birds pooped, maybe you can send him a cam he can set up on the loft. He will get around to it. He has kids, a job, a wife.


----------



## blongboy

hillfamilyloft said:


> Flap will get to it. Just think for a minute. This is May, we are not flying until say late August. He will not even start training until say early July. Not all the birds are even in the loft. Most of the time they are sitting around. Maybe a few loft flying pretty well. There really is not that much to report. If you want to know how many times your birds pooped, maybe you can send him a cam he can set up on the loft. He will get around to it. He has kids, a job, a wife.


lol that's funny


----------



## RodSD

conditionfreak,

My guess is that the hen fought with an intruder trampling the babies while they were fighting and she fell 4 feet down awkwardly killing her.

I think that may have happened to me once or twice, but no result in death except sprained legs or wings. It usually happens at night where the birds fall and not know it because they are blind at night. If your loft is bullet-proof that no predators can get in, then another bird is definitely a culprit.

Can another bird harm a baby bird? Yes! I have seen a cock harming a baby once pecking it and trying to oust the baby from the bowl. I also had scalped babies when they went to the wrong nest box.

Now with respect to your pigeon friend, this lesson have been learned by others so they put a spring on the door to automatically close it when unattended. Some also use those gas-like or hydraulic strut door mechanism to close it. That is probably safer than the fast spring type which could decapitate a pigeon when it suddenly closes.


----------



## jpsnapdy

conditionfreak said:


> ...
> 
> I could find no reason for these two birds being dead, except the mother hens eyes were both pecked out and she had pecked marks around here nose (cere). No other signs of injury that could have come from a predator, and both birds seemed healthy yesterday. The nestmate to the deceased baby is very healthy.
> 
> I am at a loss to explain this finding. The only thing I can come up with, is that this hen was fighting in the nest box with another pigeon and the baby got killed in the fight.


Those are two sad stories, your friend's and yours. Sorry for the loss!
Was your hen partly scalped, too? or just the eyes pecked?
could the baby have died of shock?


----------



## conditionfreak

I could find no injuries on the baby. The adult hen was not scalped and I could find no other injuries except for the nose and eyes.

Can spiders kill pigeons? The only intruders that could get into my loft would be insects or snakes, and a snake would have to go through the trap, which is unlikely. I say the only intruders that could have, meaning those that would not have eaten or mauled a pigeon. A snake could squeeze a bird to death, or frighten it to death. Any other thing would have bitten or eaten some or all of the baby or adult. My breeding loft is not bomb proof. It has a trap that is always open, but that is enclosed by a chain link fence aviary 10 feet long by 6 ft high by 6 feet wide, and the trap is up high off the ground. The loft is vinyl sided also. All birds in there are prisoners.

If the bird was bitten by a poisonous spider and was "out of it" and was attacked by another pigeon while in this weakened state. Maybe that could explain it. A baby could also have been bitten by a poisonous spider.

I know I'm stretching it here, but I'm trying to figure this out to prevent it from happening again.

I tried putting a field camera in there, but since it works on "motion sensing", it constantly takes pictures and soon reaches its capacity. I saw nothing on the pics that would help me solve this mystery.

I'm considering bringing in all of my birds, one at a time, and interrogating them. If their stories don't match up, then I know someone is a murderer and the rest of them are afraid of him (or her). I will find out who the culprit is and prosecute him or her to the fullest extent of the law.

I guess that would entail taking away aviary privileges or conjugal rights, since they are all prisoners for life anyway.


----------



## Josepe

Wasn't aware of all the particulars with the training and Flap.Guess I'm just anxious to hear anything, spred sheet,etc or see some pics, like alot of others on here.The Poop Cam is a good idea.I'll look for one on e-bay.


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

Josepe said:


> Wasn't aware of all the particulars with the training and Flap.Guess I'm just anxious to hear anything, spred sheet,etc or see some pics, like alot of others on here.The Poop Cam is a good idea.I'll look for one on e-bay.


It's not just you who's anxious, many of us here are feeling it too! 

There are a lot more birds entered this year and I think the competition will be pretty awesome. I don't think asking for an update to much or will upset Tom. He seems like a pretty cool cat and besides he decided to take on the task and that means he has to deal with us ingrates also!


----------



## jpsnapdy

conditionfreak said:


> I could find no injuries on the baby. The adult hen was not scalped and I could find no other injuries except for the nose and eyes.
> 
> Can spiders kill pigeons? The only intruders that could get into my loft would be insects or snakes, and a snake would have to go through the trap, which is unlikely. I say the only intruders that could have, meaning those that would not have eaten or mauled a pigeon. A snake could squeeze a bird to death, or frighten it to death. Any other thing would have bitten or eaten some or all of the baby or adult. My breeding loft is not bomb proof. It has a trap that is always open, but that is enclosed by a chain link fence aviary 10 feet long by 6 ft high by 6 feet wide, and the trap is up high off the ground. The loft is vinyl sided also. All birds in there are prisoners.
> 
> If the bird was bitten by a poisonous spider and was "out of it" and was attacked by another pigeon while in this weakened state. Maybe that could explain it. A baby could also have been bitten by a poisonous spider.
> 
> I know I'm stretching it here, but I'm trying to figure this out to prevent it from happening again.
> 
> I tried putting a field camera in there, but since it works on "motion sensing", it constantly takes pictures and soon reaches its capacity. I saw nothing on the pics that would help me solve this mystery.
> 
> I'm considering bringing in all of my birds, one at a time, and interrogating them. If their stories don't match up, then I know someone is a murderer and the rest of them are afraid of him (or her). I will find out who the culprit is and prosecute him or her to the fullest extent of the law.
> 
> I guess that would entail taking away aviary privileges or conjugal rights, since they are all prisoners for life anyway.


I like your sense of humour! Spiders? Depends what types you have in your american jungles ;P maybe one from Mars? Lol.
I was thinking that if another pigeon attacked your hen, there must have been more than just eye pecking, right? 
For the baby, I actually witnessed one die of shock in the nest from hearing a detonation behind the loft. It stiffened for a few seconds and dropped dead, which I didn't find funny at the time though!
Now you have to ask for an autopsy !


----------



## conditionfreak

I know everyone is anxious. But last year seemed to go by fast and this year will be no exception. Pigeon racing is not like basketball. It is more like baseball. Slow and boring, with a little excitement every now and then.

I don't think Tom is completely done with the new loft, and as has been pointed out by others. He has a full life. A job, wife, kids, sports and taking care of the pigeons that belong to a whole bunch of other people. People who would not like it if their birds got sick or lost.

Patience grasshoppers. Nothing is really going to happen for a couple of months. Just some settling and a little training. 

And reports of whose bird flew the coop. 

Last year, one of my two entries disappeared. At the time I suspect Warren snuck iinto Tom's coop in the middle of the night and snatched what he thought were my two birds, but he only got one of mine and someone elses.

But after I reflected on it, I decided Warren had nothing to do with it. Because he is not that energetic and doesn't like "Coors" anyway.

I now suspect Xueoo as the "sneaker", because we have all seen how his sense of humor runs, (refer to his last few postings on this thread). But I have no proof. Just a hunch.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Just sit back and wait for Warren to send you that trophy. That is what we are flying for. I think there is a bit of Warren's blood in a few of those I sent. Did not send any vanilla birds though.


----------



## Crazy Pete

I hate USPS tracking my birds left Omaha last night at 9:14 pm and they don't post where they are yet and it is 6:55 pm here. grrrr
Dave


----------



## conditionfreak

hillfamilyloft said:


> Just sit back and wait for Warren to send you that trophy. That is what we are flying for. I think there is a bit of Warren's blood in a few of those I sent. Did not send any vanilla birds though.


Just to make sure that there are no misunderstandings about the trophy Warren won in last years event.

Warren keeps it forever. He does not pass it on to the following years winner.

The next winner will receive a trophy just like Warren did, but with a slightly different color scheme. It is really a nice looking style trophy. I'm thinking it would be nice to match the trophy colors to the winning pigeons colors. Like a blue trophy scheme for a blue bar winner. A red check winner would of course have a reddish tropy. A white, black or whatever, could be matched fairly well. A grizzle would be a little bit difficult, but possible.

Or we could just pick a nice green trophy color scheme this year. Maybe yellow. I like yellow. It would look good on top of my piano.


----------



## kbraden

Ok, I am back from Flapdoodle's house. One heck of a road trip! Something that should have taken 5 hrs of travel time, round trip, ended up taking 8.5 hrs! Rained the whole way, dumping snow on the mountain pass with dense fog and about one car length of visibility.

Nevertheless, Flap is just fine, his wife has been ill so he has been busy taking care of her & the kids, plus his regular job & the birds. The loft is coming along, 3 sections are complete and full of birds. Birds look well and appear to be adjusting nicely. Loft flying will begin in a few weeks, followed eventually by road training. Racing won't begin til end of August. The rain was so bad I wasn't able to get any pics, sorry.


----------



## conditionfreak

Did you feed those B-B's I sent you, to those "other" birds, like we planned?


----------



## Crazy Pete

I don't under stand why the PO gives you a tracking number if they are not going to do any thing with it. My birds left Omaha Ne monday night at 9:14 pm and they are still in limbo almost 27 hrs later. Grrr
Dave


It is after midnifgt here, today is now Wednesday.


----------



## Gnuretiree

Crazy Pete said:


> I don't under stand why the PO gives you a tracking number if they are not going to do any thing with it. My birds left Omaha Ne monday night at 9:14 pm and they are still in limbo almost 27 hrs later. Grrr
> Dave
> 
> 
> It is after midnifgt here, today is now Wednesday.


I experienced the same thing. I shipped from Connecticut and the first update I got that was that the birds were delivered. I checked with the local post office and they told me not to worry - seems to be normal practice. I shipped Monday evening and the birds were delivered early Wednesday morning.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

That's why I never pay extra for tracking numbers. They never update it! I could go pick up the birds, check the number, and it'll still say it's somewhere else


----------



## Gnuretiree

I get the tracking numbers for insurance in case the birds are not delivered within two days. I hope that it will help them locate the box before the birds get in trouble.


----------



## kbraden

conditionfreak said:


> Did you feed those B-B's I sent you, to those "other" birds, like we planned?


No... I found some fishing weights by the bass pond out back that worked better LOL


----------



## conditionfreak

Suhweeet! The fix is in.

Hey. Wait a minute.... You do know which birds are mine, don't you?

Oh no. I've got a bad feeling about this.  I think I've been hoodwinked.


----------



## Crazy Pete

Well my birds finily made it so you guys may as well have tom return you birds, this race is in the bag. lol
Dave


----------



## JaxRacingLofts

kbraden said:


> Ok, I am back from Flapdoodle's house. One heck of a road trip! Something that should have taken 5 hrs of travel time, round trip, ended up taking 8.5 hrs! Rained the whole way, dumping snow on the mountain pass with dense fog and about one car length of visibility.
> 
> Nevertheless, Flap is just fine, his wife has been ill so he has been busy taking care of her & the kids, plus his regular job & the birds. The loft is coming along, 3 sections are complete and full of birds. Birds look well and appear to be adjusting nicely. Loft flying will begin in a few weeks, followed eventually by road training. Racing won't begin til end of August. The rain was so bad I wasn't able to get any pics, sorry.


I hope Tom's wife gets well soon. I really admire Tom for all he is doing for hosting the PT Classic plus taking care of his family and working a fulltime job...must be stressfull. With the weather as bad as you say I hope his family stays healthy and the birds settle in nicely.


----------



## kbraden

Here are some pics I took on the road trip, you can see for yourself the weather was rotten! ("rotten" is a nice word compared to what I had to say about it yesterday LOL)

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.224031990957204.74566.100000512138947&l=cfd12d3c4a


----------



## Big T

conditionfreak said:


> Suhweeet! The fix is in.
> 
> Hey. Wait a minute.... You do know which birds are mine, don't you?
> 
> Oh no. I've got a bad feeling about this.  I think I've been hoodwinked.


She fed weights to all birds but the white ones. Cause she wants more white birds from me. By the way, reader of Mark Twain I take it?

Tony


----------



## kbraden

Big T said:


> She fed weights to all birds but the white ones. Cause she wants more white birds from me. By the way, reader of Mark Twain I take it?
> 
> Tony


I did see some white ones there, not sure if they are yours tho, kind of looked like cousins to mine LOL


----------



## bbcdon

kbraden said:


> Here are some pics I took on the road trip, you can see for yourself the weather was rotten! ("rotten" is a nice word compared to what I had to say about it yesterday LOL)
> 
> http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.224031990957204.74566.100000512138947&l=cfd12d3c4a


Donner Pass can get real nasty!


----------



## hillfamilyloft

I have to drive Red Mountain and Molas passes in Colorado this weekend from Durango to Grand Junction. Tonight they are expecting 8 inches of snow. You gotta love spring in the mountains.


----------



## Flapdoodle

JaxRacingLofts said:


> I hope Tom's wife gets well soon. I really admire Tom for all he is doing for hosting the PT Classic plus taking care of his family and working a fulltime job...must be stressfull. With the weather as bad as you say I hope his family stays healthy and the birds settle in nicely.


I appreciate everyones patience. I am having a rough patch the past few months. My nine year old is in the hospital for 3-5 days with a ruptured appendix. Surgery was today and went well. On top of the five kids, pigeons, work, and everything else, my wife will not get "well" for several months. It is one of those nine month deals. 

Needless to say, I will try to make/get some time at some point for some regular updates. Hope everyone is doing well... Flap


----------



## Crazy Pete

We may be impatient thats just the way it is. Your first concern is family, hope every thing goes well.
Dave


----------



## RodSD

Flap,

I wish your family well. And if your wife is expecting I would say "Congrats!"


----------



## Big T

Five kids and you still having more? It is not because of the water. Congrats!!! And you need to get out of the pigeon business and into the kid business. Raising kids are more fun!

Tony


----------



## Gnuretiree

Big T said:


> Five kids and you still having more? It is not because of the water. Congrats!!! And you need to get out of the pigeon business and into the kid business. Raising kids are more fun!
> 
> Tony


Five kids and another on the way.... It sounds like he is already in the kid business. Keep up the good work!!! Hope your nine-year old gets home soon. 

Hugh


----------



## Xueoo

Take care of the family first. All will be well in no time.


----------



## conditionfreak

Are you Mormon? 

Or just going for the record?


----------



## rackerman

conditionfreak said:


> Are you Mormon?
> 
> Or just going for the record?


I'd bet, going for the record...........


----------



## pigeon is fun

the more, the merrier!


----------



## MaryOfExeter

The more kids, the more opportunity to get more young people into pigeons  Also makes the work load lighter for you, as I'm sure you'll put them all to work as loft managers  LOL.

A ruptured appendix sounds horrible! If that happened to me when I was 9, I'd be terrified. Even if it happened now, or later, I'd still be scared


----------



## luckyloft

Take care of your family FIRST. The birds will be fine! Sorry to hear about your child.My appendix ruptured when I was in my late 30's it took a while to get back to normal.Maybe since it happened early he will forget about it later.God bless you on the number of children I bet there is never a dull moment around you place.You have a strong wife. Jeff


----------



## conditionfreak

I planned ahead. 

I had my tonsils and appendix removed as a child.

As an adult, I went bald, and had the nails on both of my big toes removed.

It is all part of my master plan to weigh less.


----------



## JaxRacingLofts

Flapdoodle said:


> I appreciate everyones patience. I am having a rough patch the past few months. My nine year old is in the hospital for 3-5 days with a ruptured appendix. Surgery was today and went well. On top of the five kids, pigeons, work, and everything else, my wife will not get "well" for several months. *It is one of those nine month deals.*
> 
> Needless to say, I will try to make/get some time at some point for some regular updates. Hope everyone is doing well... Flap


I'm glad to hear your child's surgery went well...gotta be thankful when things start heading in the right direction. I definitely do not envy you with all the commitments you have...it doesn't seem to me thats there is enough hours in the day to keep up with everything that must be done. 

I remember my fiancé' sending me to the store all hours of the night because of "cravings". Anyone else ever have to buy a candy bar with almonds (brand didn't matter) and sweet pickles? I guess she knew what she needed because my 3 yr old is strong. Good luck to you Tom and like everyone said take care of your family first


----------



## Big T

JaxRacingLofts said:


> I remember my fiancé' sending me to the store all hours of the night because of "cravings". Anyone else ever have to buy a candy bar with almonds (brand didn't matter) and sweet pickles? I guess she knew what she needed because my 3 yr old is strong. Good luck to you Tom and like everyone said take care of your family first


Nachos with extra peppers, and she couldn't understand why she always had heartburn. Funny thing was, before and after the pregnancy my wife hates hot food. But who am I to think? I just did as I was told.

By the way, that Heartburn is now 25.

Tony


----------



## Gnuretiree

Flapdoodle said:


> I appreciate everyones patience. I am having a rough patch the past few months. My nine year old is in the hospital for 3-5 days with a ruptured appendix. Surgery was today and went well. On top of the five kids, pigeons, work, and everything else, my wife will not get "well" for several months. It is one of those nine month deals.
> 
> Needless to say, I will try to make/get some time at some point for some regular updates. Hope everyone is doing well... Flap


Hope everyone is doing well.


----------



## Josepe

Yea How's things going Flap?


----------



## seward

are you doing this in 2012?


----------



## kbraden

Wet & Windy, that about sums it up for this region right now and for the past week. We have had more rain in the past 2 weeks than we have had in 6 months. Not sure on Flapdoodle exactly, but every night when I watch the weather, the area over him on the map is every shade of green (rain).


----------



## Josepe

Was inquiring to see how Flap's child was recovering after the surgery.Doing well I hope.


----------



## kbraden

Can't help on that info, can only help on weather reports as I am a few hours away from him. Our local Reno news channel covers weather from Sacramento to NV / Utah border, so the entire training & racing path.


----------



## conditionfreak

Just to "bump" this thread to keep it up near the first page, I will tell my latest "problems".

1) My favorite and best old bird, LCC 457, has decided that since I do not provide nest boxes for my old bird racing team. That he has made the entire landing board his nest box. He will not let another bird on the landing board, save for his mate. The other birds can not go into the trap nor come out of the trap, without him attacking them and driving them either back in or back out. I have taken to chasing him away with a long stick, each and every time other birds want to go in or out. I don't know what to do about it. I think it will be a good motivation for him come race time, but when the coop is locked up, the other birds can not enjoy the aviary/landing board area. They have to stay inside the loft. Any suggestions?

2) I have been training old birds and young birds lately (our races for both start in mid July), and as is my usual training method, I drive on the line of race direction and go however miles I am going to do that day, and find a nice open area to let them out. Yesterday I went down a dead end road and let the birds out from the basket, while the basket was on the tailgate of my truck. I stayed to watch what the birds did and if the went in the right direction for home. Immediately a man drove down the road from his house which was on the dead end road, and approached me and started yelling about my "dumping" unwanted pets there. He said that people are always dumping cats and dogs there. It took me quite a while to explain what I was doing and I offered the evidence that the birds were gone. Flew away immediately. He still was not fully convinced I wasn't "dumping" a bunch of unwanted pigeons in his neighborhood. It ruined my trying to beat my birds back home. He insisted that I train elsewhere in the future. 

3) Today I took my birds to a country road which didn't have any wires and such around and the distance was right, so I again let the birds out of the basket while it was sitting on the tailgate of my truck. Sure enough, a man from the only house around came after me and demanded to know what kind of birds I had just dumped near his farm. I went through the explanation from the previous day again, and this time the man understood quickly, but went into a long story about how several years ago a pigeon took up residence in his barn and that it had "several" tags on its legs. He said it lived there for a couple of years and then it disappeared. He said when it first showed up at his barn, he got in touch with "someone" about it and was told that it would come home on its own, but it stayed there for 2 years. He insisted my pigeons were "carrier" pigeons and I was unable to convince him that they were racing homers. But that was not a big deal to me. I finally agreed with him that they were "carrier" pigeons. Again, I was unable to try and beat my birds home, due to being "involved" with conversations with strangers. But I try to leave a good rapport with the public about our hobby.

Last year I had let my birds out at a huge business parking lot and the security people there insisted that I never do that again, as they carry diseases and poop on peoples vehicles. 

If I go training tomorrow, I am going to let them out and "gun it" away from whatever location I am at. But of course, someone will get my license plate number and call the sheriff and tell them I was dumping pigeons or "something" in their neighborhood.

What's a fellow to do.


----------



## Gnuretiree

It might be time to give up racing against the birds! They always cheat anyway, don't follow traffic laws and take shortcuts home.


----------



## rpalmer

conditionfreak Wear a baseball hat with ARPU logo. Take along some coffee and binoculars. You can share either or both and have the look of a laid back racer. Which of coarse you aren't as you want to beat the birds home. But it might help. 

It's all just a sign of the times we live in and how most people are when it comes to their pets losing their charm in the eyes of those who had them. Good luck in the future.


----------



## conditionfreak

Gnuretiree said:


> It might be time to give up racing against the birds! They always cheat anyway, don't follow traffic laws and *take shortcuts home*.


I wish they did, but I think they are taking the same routes I take.


----------



## Crazy Pete

You should make up a flier on the training of racing pigeons. Then you could give it to them and leave, put your phone number on it they might be interested.
Dave


----------



## conditionfreak

Or they might call me and blame me for every pigeon in their barn. 

But good Idea I think. One thing that has amazed me is how many people I have run into over the years, that have a story about finding a banded pigeon.

It amazes me because I have never got a "call". When someone has tracked me down because they found one of my wayward pigeons. I hear other fliers getting "calls" every now and then. But none for me yet.


----------



## Pigeon0446

conditionfreak said:


> Or they might call me and blame me for every pigeon in their barn.
> 
> But good Idea I think. One thing that has amazed me is how many people I have run into over the years, that have a story about finding a banded pigeon.
> 
> It amazes me because I have never got a "call". When someone has tracked me down because they found one of my wayward pigeons. I hear other fliers getting "calls" every now and then. But none for me yet.


Where I fly there's alot of pigeon flyers so you do get a call here and there about one of the other pigeon flyers catching your bird. But I very rearly get a call from another pigeon guy. What I do seam to get pretty often is non pigeon ppl finding them in their garden or in thier yard. Most of the time if they are able to catch the bird it's normally got a broken wing or the bird is so far gone that they don't make it.


----------



## Gnuretiree

rpalmer said:


> conditionfreak Wear a baseball hat with ARPU logo. Take along some coffee and binoculars. You can share either or both and have the look of a laid back racer. Which of coarse you aren't as you want to beat the birds home. But it might help.
> 
> It's all just a sign of the times we live in and how most people are when it comes to their pets losing their charm in the eyes of those who had them. Good luck in the future.


You might end up getting arrested if you show up using binoculars around people's houses!


----------



## NayNay

Dang, what a mess! I guess you need to stay away from paranoid farmers. Those dead end country roads are enticing to the bad folks to dump trash, pets, etc. , So, I imagine those farmers are hyper vigilant about every strange pickup truck they see, and you will just keep having that same experience- oh, unless maybe you are proactive and "ask" if you can release out there. Like how hunters ask permission to hunt- farmers are used to that kind of rapport. But your actions are identical to what they have encountered in the past as "dumping". Just an idea. Then you can get the "conversation with strangers" part done before you release your birds. 

Your other problem is intriguing to me, as I am currently working out the best use of interior space in my loft. Currently all my birds are in the one section I have divided off. It has perches now, but will be my breeding section ultimately. So, once the nest boxes are in, I kinda figured I'd keep them in there. But, even though some of my breeders will not be racers, you now bring up an issue that I will have to consider re racing OB's. Now, if I were you, I would give in, and give Romeo and Juliet a nestbox. I am way off base on this idea? I am trying to learn, soaking up info like a sponge, so I am curious as to why you haven't caved in and given him a nestbox- since he is being so disruptive to your program by commandeering the landing board.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

I say go with the fliers. If they call blaming you for all their problems, then all you have to do is show them that the ferals are obviously not banded. Stupid people.


----------



## Crazy Pete

Maybe you should give the birds a 20 min break befor you turn them loose, then the farmer can see the the birds first. I have had the same problem but when they see racers do what they do the mean farmer has a lot better attitude.
Dave


----------



## conditionfreak

Good idea Crazy Pete (whose name is not Pete). 

NayNay, I do not breed from my race team. Plus, If I give that one pair a nest box, all of the other cock birds that have paired up will fight with "him" for that lone nest box. It isn't a big enough loft to give them all nest boxes. Generally speaking, to keep the fighting down, you should have more nest boxes than you have pairs.

Still a problem....


----------



## Crazy Pete

Well thats an easy fix all you have to do is build a bigger loft, Now isn't that easy.
Dave


----------



## Pigeon0446

conditionfreak said:


> 2) I have been training old birds and young birds lately (our races for both start in mid July), and as is my usual training method, I drive on the line of race direction and go however miles I am going to do that day, and find a nice open area to let them out. Yesterday I went down a dead end road and let the birds out from the basket, while the basket was on the tailgate of my truck. I stayed to watch what the birds did and if the went in the right direction for home. Immediately a man drove down the road from his house which was on the dead end road, and approached me and started yelling about my "dumping" unwanted pets there. He said that people are always dumping cats and dogs there. It took me quite a while to explain what I was doing and I offered the evidence that the birds were gone. Flew away immediately. He still was not fully convinced I wasn't "dumping" a bunch of unwanted pigeons in his neighborhood. It ruined my trying to beat my birds back home. He insisted that I train elsewhere in the future.
> 
> 3) Today I took my birds to a country road which didn't have any wires and such around and the distance was right, so I again let the birds out of the basket while it was sitting on the tailgate of my truck. Sure enough, a man from the only house around came after me and demanded to know what kind of birds I had just dumped near his farm. I went through the explanation from the previous day again, and this time the man understood quickly, but went into a long story about how several years ago a pigeon took up residence in his barn and that it had "several" tags on its legs. He said it lived there for a couple of years and then it disappeared. He said when it first showed up at his barn, he got in touch with "someone" about it and was told that it would come home on its own, but it stayed there for 2 years. He insisted my pigeons were "carrier" pigeons and I was unable to convince him that they were racing homers. But that was not a big deal to me. I finally agreed with him that they were "carrier" pigeons. Again, I was unable to try and beat my birds home, due to being "involved" with conversations with strangers. But I try to leave a good rapport with the public about our hobby.
> 
> Last year I had let my birds out at a huge business parking lot and the security people there insisted that I never do that again, as they carry diseases and poop on peoples vehicles.
> 
> If I go training tomorrow, I am going to let them out and "gun it" away from whatever location I am at. But of course, someone will get my license plate number and call the sheriff and tell them I was dumping pigeons or "something" in their neighborhood.
> 
> What's a fellow to do.


I'm in a pretty populated area and most of my tosses are in NYC which is even more populated then where I am. So there's really no place I can go without ppl around so I always get that where ppl come out complining. But over time I've found a few good spots where the ppl have seen me so many times they've got to know me. I'm normally pretty good at explining what I'm doing and since I let my birds up in seperate packs so I still have birds in the crates to show them the bands and the computer chips and most ppl think it's pretty cool. But it's been pretty good since that Tyson show was on more ppl have some knowlege of racing pigeons. But there have been times where I've got into arguments with ppl I can't stand it when you have ppl who really don't know anything about the pigeons and first thing they say is your not allowed to let those diseases birds out around here. One time the cops questioned me at a NYC park thinking I was catching the feral birds from the park and I showed them the bands and everything but they still didn't belive me they had to wait there while I waited the 10 mins between packs until I had let them all out. And as for parking lots I tell them show me a sign that says I can't train my birds here. There's actually a parking lot in NJ that alot of ppl used to use that they kept complianing and I used that where's the sign and the next time when I went to that spot they had a sign saying you were prohibitted from releasing pigeons in their parking lot.


----------



## conditionfreak

Never heard that one before. Not allowed to release pigeons here. Funny, but sad.


----------



## RodSD

A "carrier" pigeon was the original or old name given to our homing pigeons because they were initially used to carry messages. Then when telegraph was used carrier pigeons were not needed anymore, but fancier who loved pigeons continued training them and ended up racing for "home" so now we call them homing pigeons.

With respect to training toss places, I myself worries about it. People seems to look at you weird and we seem to stand out. Maybe I should paint my training crate with the words "Racing birds in training."

Also there is indeed a bird that thinks he is the boss of the loft. I had a bird like that claimed the landing board as his territory--wont allow any other birds to enter or exit. Unfortunately he was not a match with 2 hawks on his tail. What a brave bird-- but, he didn't had a chance with a pair of Coopers on his tail.


----------



## Gnuretiree

Anyone heard from Flap? I hope his girl is doing well.

Hugh


----------



## Josepe

Not since he posted May 22nd.Hope things are well with him and his family.Maybe he'll pop in shortly and update us.


----------



## conditionfreak

One thing I have learned about this pigeon racing game. Is to not get attached to a specific bird. 

I had a red check that was my first bird of this seasons breedings. It was hatched on Christmas day and I banded it on January 1st with band #1. So.... it was #1, banded on 1-1-11 and had hatched on Christmas. It was out of two very good long distance birds and I just liked it. A very nice looking red cock bird. My oldest of the season and one I felt would surely do well for me.

I lost it on a 10 mile training toss.  Never get attached to a racing pigeon. It will surely get lost. It happens to me every year.

On a side note: Take the age you will be on your birthday this year and add it to the last two digits of the year you were born.

It will be 111 for everyone.

This year also will have the following dates that are 1's.

1-1-11
1-11-11
11-1-11
11-11-11


----------



## rackerman

conditionfreak said:


> One thing I have learned about this pigeon racing game. Is to not get attached to a specific bird.
> 
> I had a red check that was my first bird of this seasons breedings. It was hatched on Christmas day and I banded it on January 1st with band #1. So.... it was #1, banded on 1-1-11 and had hatched on Christmas. It was out of two very good long distance birds and I just liked it. A very nice looking red cock bird. My oldest of the season and one I felt would surely do well for me.
> 
> I lost it on a 10 mile training toss.  Never get attacked to a racing pigeon. It will surely get lost. It happens to me every year.
> 
> On a side note: Take the age you will be on your birthday this year and add it to the last two digits of the year you were born.
> 
> It will be 111 for everyone.
> 
> This year also will have the following dates that are 1's.
> 
> 1-1-11
> 1-11-11
> 11-1-11
> 11-11-11


Man are you clever..................


----------



## JaxRacingLofts

conditionfreak said:


> On a side note: Take the age you will be on your birthday this year and add it to the last two digits of the year you were born.
> 
> It will be 111 for everyone.
> 
> This year also will have the following dates that are 1's.
> 
> 1-1-11
> 1-11-11
> 11-1-11
> 11-11-11


Thats just cool..


----------



## MaryOfExeter

The majority of my bands this year started with 111  LOL. 11101, 11102, etc. Up to 11200.


It's the same because the older you are, the less your last two digits are. I'll be 18, born in 93. If I was 19, it's be 92. So plus one on the age, minus one on the year. Therefore, it doesn't change regardless of age  But of course each year the "magic" number will be different. Next year, everyone's should be 112.


----------



## Pigeon0446

conditionfreak said:


> One thing I have learned about this pigeon racing game. Is to not get attached to a specific bird.
> 
> I had a red check that was my first bird of this seasons breedings. It was hatched on Christmas day and I banded it on January 1st with band #1. So.... it was #1, banded on 1-1-11 and had hatched on Christmas. It was out of two very good long distance birds and I just liked it. A very nice looking red cock bird. My oldest of the season and one I felt would surely do well for me.
> 
> I lost it on a 10 mile training toss.  Never get attacked to a racing pigeon. It will surely get lost. It happens to me every year.


I know what your saying it always seams to be your favorite bird that doesn't make it home or somthing happens to it while loft flying. IDK how many times the hawk has gotten my favorite bird or that bird hasn't returned from a race or a training toss. My champion bird from last YB season was my fav old bird on my team and he never came home from the first 150 mile race. Now my bird who's become my fav my bird who is leading for champion bird by alot this OB season with only one race left I think she's so far ahead she can't be caught. Well she isn't home from the 250 today. But on a good not my other fav my 2 time winner from this season made it home in 5th place today so now she's qualified to be a IF Hall of Fame bird for the 2011 OB's. Which is pretty cool since she was also a Hall of Fame bird for the 2010 YB's. But I hope my other hen is home in the morning. Idk why she didn't make it home I was thinking she'd have a good race this week since she finally mated up with a new mate. She was mated to my champion from last YB season who got lost in the first race. I guess it wasn't a good thing for her to mate up.


----------



## Pigeon0446

MaryOfExeter said:


> The majority of my bands this year started with 111  LOL. 11101, 11102, etc. Up to 11200.


I hate the bands with 5 or more digits. Too much writing to when you have to fill out the race sheet. Thats why I like it when I win average speed in young birds in our club you get the first shot at taking the low numbers 1 to 100. For some reason I just love number 1 no matter what bird it's on. I actually bought a bird at the LBRA auction just because it was band number 1 now I have IF 2011 LBRA 1 and IF 2011 LIN 1.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Pigeon0446 said:


> I hate the bands with 5 or more digits. Too much writing to when you have to fill out the race sheet. Thats why I like it when I win average speed in young birds in our club you get the first shot at taking the low numbers 1 to 100. For some reason I just love number 1 no matter what bird it's on. I actually bought a bird at the LBRA auction just because it was band number 1 now I have IF 2011 LBRA 1 and IF 2011 LIN 1.


I agree. I think they did it this year because all the bands would have an 11 in the front - for the year 2011. I hope they don't go with 12*** next year  Usually we get the numbers 1-1,000. I try to pick different numbers each year so it doesn't get confusing when I talk about "Number 400" as there probably won't be more than one of those in the loft at a time. So far I've had 400's in 2008, 700's in 2009, 1-100 in 2010, and now 11101-11200. Right now when I write the numbers down, I just put the last two so it looks more normal (except number 200 of course, in which I didn't just put 00). Then when I'm bored I go back and add the 1's to the beginning  But when you're busy banding babies, you really don't want to take the time to write it all out right there, you know?
But when it comes to talking about them, I just say "68" or whatever. Then my dad gets really confused because he'll call it "168"  
I just don't like big numbers - UGH!


----------



## Gnuretiree

If you use the last digit of the year as the hundreds digit on the band number, you'll go ten years without repeating a number and you'll be able to tell the age of the bird just by its number. Ex: 2111 band 100- 199, 2112 band 200-299, 2113 band 300- 399, etc


----------



## First To Hatch

It is true about your favorites getting lost  I had a lil red check that got taken by a hawk, it was such a nice pigeon from my mentor. Now I'm trying not to have favorites but its really hard not to.


----------



## conditionfreak

conditionfreak said:


> One thing I have learned about this pigeon racing game. Is to not get attached to a specific bird.
> 
> I had a red check that was my first bird of this seasons breedings. It was hatched on Christmas day and I banded it on January 1st with band #1. So.... it was #1, banded on 1-1-11 and had hatched on Christmas. It was out of two very good long distance birds and I just liked it. A very nice looking red cock bird. My oldest of the season and one I felt would surely do well for me.
> 
> I lost it on a 10 mile training toss. Never get attached to a racing pigeon. It will surely get lost. It happens to me every year.


Guess who came home today! Yep, my #1.  Looking a little slimmer and worn out. But okay. Looks like it did a lot of flying and I know we had rain a couple of times during its AWOL status.

Gonna let it rest for awhile before training it again. I am sooo happy it found its way home, even if way late.

Must be a homer after all.  Now if I could just turn it into a "racing" homer. Well....actually it is already is a racing homer. Just a "slow racing homer" right now.


----------



## NayNay

conditionfreak said:


> Guess who came home today! Yep, my #1.  Looking a little slimmer and worn out. But okay. Looks like it did a lot of flying and I know we had rain a couple of times during its AWOL status.
> 
> Gonna let it rest for awhile before training it again. I am sooo happy it found its way home, even if way late.
> 
> Must be a homer after all.  Now if I could just turn it into a "racing" homer. Well....actually it is already is a racing homer. Just a "slow racing homer" right now.


Ya know, it's funny, but when I first read your story about losing this bird, I had a feeling he would be back.


----------



## Flapdoodle

conditionfreak said:


> .........
> 
> This year also will have the following dates that are 1's.
> 
> 1-1-11
> 1-11-11
> 11-1-11
> 11-11-11


My wife is due 10-27-11. Maybe I get new baby daughter (Rose) to wait until 11-1-11. We just can't tell my wife. That leaves the score at 5 girls, 1 boy. Poor Jackson he really wanted a little brother.

My daughter ended up missing the last two weeks of school but is 100% now. 

The straight talk about what you all want to know... YOUR BIRDS. 

I need to apologize first and foremost. If things were flipped and I was the one that sent money and birds and have heard nothing I would be slightly pissed. On my end this year it has been a whirlwind, work, family, and the birds. The birds have taken a back seat and I know that is not fair to you guys or the birds. Before I give the status I want to say if you feel you have been wronged or are upset by the entire thing, I want to make whatever restitution I can. The only thing I can do at this point is send money and/or birds back your direction. Please PM me rather then post here in the forum and I can make whatever restitution is fair. 

Now for the birds around the middle of April in one of three separate groups I had a few birds that looked off. They didn't eat when I put the food down. The next morning both those birds were dead. A a few others were showing the same symptoms sitting in a corner weak and lethargic. I talk to a few of the other guys and they recommended treatment for E coli. I gave just that group (about 25 birds) five day treatment. Four birds out of the group did not make it. One died and the other three I removed from the group. 6 birds in all died. 

About the middle of May I had two birds in the same group start to show the same signs. I treated that group a second time for five days. It is better to not treat birds as a group but I felt it is what I should do. The birds all cleared up and look good now. If I see any more signs I will isolate the individual bird and treat accordingly. 

Major rookie mistake Saturday night. I had all the birds combined and out on the landing boards. Some of the birds it was their first time out (the group that was sick). I know that sucks on my part but it is what it is. Something spooked the birds and they flew every which way. Out of 71 birds I only had 43 trap that night. 

The rookie mistake is letting the birds out on a night the old birds are racing. I am right on the line of flight for part of the bay area combine. As well as our combine. I think we had birds get mixed up with race birds. I have had two or three birds come back each morning and night. Including another two this morning. The total count at this point is 61, that has me out 10 birds. I will get a inventory up this weekend. 

Speaking of inventory this is what was mailed in. Please take a look and help me fill in the gaps. I had help picking birds up and did not get all the information I needed. I think I received a few birds that did not even make the list. Please PM any corrections... *The List* 

I know I am way behind where I need to be. We can still make this work. If your pissed PM me that as well and we can work something out. I appreciate you patience... Tom


----------



## rackerman

Flapdoodle said:


> My wife is due 10-27-11. Maybe I get new baby daughter (Rose) to wait until 11-1-11. We just can't tell my wife. That leaves the score at 5 girls, 1 boy. Poor Jackson he really wanted a little brother.
> 
> My daughter ended up missing the last two weeks of school but is 100% now.
> 
> The straight talk about what you all want to know... YOUR BIRDS.
> 
> I need to apologize first and foremost. If things were flipped and I was the one that sent money and birds and have heard nothing I would be slightly pissed. On my end this year it has been a whirlwind, work, family, and the birds. The birds have taken a back seat and I know that is not fair to you guys or the birds. Before I give the status I want to say if you feel you have been wronged or are upset by the entire thing, I want to make whatever restitution I can. The only thing I can do at this point is send money and/or birds back your direction. Please PM me rather then post here in the forum and I can make whatever restitution is fair.
> 
> Now for the birds around the middle of April in one of three separate groups I had a few birds that looked off. They didn't eat when I put the food down. The next morning both those birds were dead. A a few others were showing the same symptoms sitting in a corner weak and lethargic. I talk to a few of the other guys and they recommended treatment for E coli. I gave just that group (about 25 birds) five day treatment. Four birds out of the group did not make it. One died and the other three I removed from the group. 6 birds in all died.
> 
> About the middle of March I had two birds in the same group start to show the same signs. I treated that group a second time for five days. It is better to not treat birds as a group but I felt it is what I should do. The birds all cleared up and look good now. If I see any more signs I will isolate the individual bird and treat accordingly.
> 
> Major rookie mistake Saturday night. I had all the birds combined and out on the landing boards. Some of the birds it was their first time out (the group that was sick). I know that sucks on my part but it is what it is. Something spooked the birds and they flew every which way. Out of 71 birds I only had 43 trap that night.
> 
> The rookie mistake is letting the birds out on a night the old birds are racing. I am right on the line of flight for part of the bay area combine. As well as our combine. I think we had birds get mixed up with race birds. I have had two or three birds come back each morning and night. Including another two this morning. The total count at this point is 61, that has me out 10 birds. I will get a inventory up this weekend.
> 
> Speaking of inventory this is what was mailed in. Please take a look and help me fill in the gaps. I had help picking birds up and did not get all the information I needed. I think I received a few birds that did not even make the list. Please PM any corrections... *The List*
> 
> I know I am way behind where I need to be. We can still make this work. If your pissed PM me that as well and we can work something out. I appreciate you patience... Tom


*I'm not pissed at all. Tom, you have been through allot this spring. Things will come around.
Glad to hear the daughter is 100%. Man, 5 girls and one boy......
I have one brother and four sisters. Hopefully you get a 2nd son.....*


----------



## bbcdon

I take it that the birds highlighted on the list are the ones that died?


----------



## loonecho

Hang in there Tom. No problems here. My brother-in-law has 5 girls and 2 boys. Best to you and your wife. Whatever will be will be with the birds.

Jim


----------



## Timber

bbcdon said:


> I take it that the birds highlighted on the list are the ones that died?


Im in the same boat....LOL


----------



## Big T

Flapdoodle said:


> I need to apologize first and foremost. If things were flipped and I was the one that sent money and birds and have heard nothing I would be slightly pissed. On my end this year it has been a whirlwind, work, family, and the birds. The birds have taken a back seat and I know that is not fair to you guys or the birds. Before I give the status I want to say if you feel you have been wronged or are upset by the entire thing, I want to make whatever restitution I can. The only thing I can do at this point is send money and/or birds back your direction. Please PM me rather then post here in the forum and I can make whatever restitution is fair.
> 
> I know I am way behind where I need to be. We can still make this work. If your pissed PM me that as well and we can work something out. I appreciate you patience... Tom


OK!!! I"M PISSED!!! MY Name is spelled GORDON, not GORDAN!!!
Now that we got that straight, let's move on. Number one rule in pigeons, "If you do not want to lose birds don't have pigeons." This is all part of the game and at least you caught it and started treatment before it got worse. As for being behind, it is a one loft race and for the most part all the birds in your loft are at the same place. So they all still have the same chance of winning. I'm just sorry it is only second place for the rest of ya'll. Glad my white streaks of lightning are still with us.

Five girls!! My prayers and best wishes are with you. Now, spend more time in the loft and less time in the bedroom. Cause the way I see it, you cannot pay for another wedding and retirement too. 

Do not worry about the birds cause family must come first. I for one am glad you got your priorities straight.

God Bless and Thank you for all you do,
Tony


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Poop happens. Birds get sick etc. Just hand in there. You really only need 4-6 weeks of road time. They will come around. family first. We all know you loose birds, the get ill, hawks, run off etc. That is part of it. When we send the birds we know the risks. Keep going, use the birds as your escape and don't worry about things. Keep in mind that it is also our responsibility to send healthy birds. Keep plugging away, things will get better. Don't fret it.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Timber said:


> Im in the same boat....LOL


We have 10 more down from those highlighted. We will all be on the list sooner or later. Sorry yours did not make it. Bummer.


----------



## rackerman

hillfamilyloft said:


> We have 10 more down from those highlighted. We will all be on the list sooner or later. Sorry yours did not make it. Bummer.


Does anyone know what the yellow highlight on the list means?


----------



## Crazy Pete

Well I didn't see my birds on the list, I thought they would be lost in training not settling. Oh well thats racing. As far as I'm concerned family comes first. Just wait till next year. lol
Dave


----------



## bbcdon

Racing birds like so many other things in life is not a sure thing. Losses, death, etc. are part of it.


----------



## Flapdoodle

Crazy Pete said:


> Well I didn't see my birds on the list, I thought they would be lost in training not settling. Oh well thats racing. As far as I'm concerned family comes first. Just wait till next year. lol
> Dave


Dave I think your on the list as 76 and 77. I had some help with the post office run the day you shipped your birds. They did not get logged in? Did you ship 5/16 from Douglas NE. Do you recall what band numbers you sent? 

If anyone else sent birds and you don't see them listed let me know. If you sent them they were in the loft. 

I have made the requested updates. If you see some info that is still needed let me know. Please help me fill in the blanks. Walt, I have 2 birds listed as COV 50 as your entries. That can't be correct. 

I also took in 3 birds from a local flyer that are not on the list. 

That gives us 82 total. Less 6 that were sick = 76 birds. I let all the birds out again tonight. Some are grouped up some are flying every which direction. I just locked up and have 64 total in the loft. That has us down 12. There were 3 others that I could see, on my roof, a tree, and at a neighbors. I am guessing there are a few others around that will trap in the morning when I feed. They are learning...

We had a coopers buzz a group that was on the ground. He didn't get a bird and the twenty or so birds went right up to the landing boards. 

I will work on an inventory this weekend.


----------



## Flapdoodle

rackerman said:


> Does anyone know what the yellow highlight on the list means?


jpsnapdy lives in India and is a member that wanted to sponsor two birds. He sent in an entry fee. I have five birds that were donated by local flyers. He will get to pick two from the five birds as his entries.


----------



## Flapdoodle

hillfamilyloft said:


> We have 10 more down from those highlighted. We will all be on the list sooner or later. Sorry yours did not make it. Bummer.


That 10 is now 14 . We had 84 total in the loft. I failed to add two birds that I raised and three from a local flyer to the list. Tonight we had 64 birds in the loft. I will do a bird by bird inventory this weekend.


----------



## Crazy Pete

That would be me from Douglas Ne. I don't have the band list handy the are AU 11 LNC 113?? It would be nice if they were still there.
Dave


----------



## Josepe

"We have 10 more down from those highlighted."

Is that ten more dead besides the six highlighted?


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

I'm not gonna lie this is nerve wracking...lol. Hope my birds are still around.

Thanks for the update Tom.


----------



## Flapdoodle

Josepe said:


> "We have 10 more down from those highlighted."
> 
> Is that ten more dead besides the six highlighted?


Six birds have died. They are highlighted in red. The other ten mentioned are birds that have not trapped in the loft. I have not put chip rings on any of the birds yet so I don't know which are in the loft and which are not. Last night when I locked up we had 64 in the loft. Based on the list posted we have birds missing some are still around and will trap in. 

The list is a work in progress. I have received several requests to update the info and add birds that were added to the loft without getting logged in. These were birds that were shipped last the second or third week in May. The total that had been in the loft I believe is 85. After taking out the birds that were sick that leaves us with 79. 79 less my count of 64 last night is 15 birds. 

I realize I should have all this together and that is what you guys were counting on. All I can do at this point is say sorry and try to make it right from here on out. 15 birds lost during settling is handler error. I let birds stay in the loft and get way to strong on the wing. There are several ways to fix the problem I created. What the game plan is at this point is to continue what I am doing. About 7:30 each night I take the settling cages off the landing boards and let out the birds. The sun is starting to set, that gives them a little time out of the loft. I am letting them trap on there own or come in and out of the loft as they wish. After dark I go and lock them up. I sat with kids last night and watched the birds some are great and flying for a while and land on the landing boards. Some just fly back a forth from landing board to landing board. I am sure there are some that have not left the board at all. At this point I am just letting them go at there own pace.

In the mornings I run all the birds out into the landing boards in settling cages and close the traps. They sit out there for a while why I change the water and put out feed. I then open the traps and call them in. Next Thursday or Friday I will run them out in the morning without the settling cages.

Again this is not the ideal situation I created but all I can do at this point is try to make it better. Any birds that have been or are lost during settling I will refund band fee on GFTG, entry fee, and shipping. We all know we can loose birds but I have created a problem I will make it right the best I can. The number is 15 birds there were a few around when I left this morning for work. I think those will trap today. I could loose more over the next week. That is how it goes.


----------



## conditionfreak

Tom. My two entries are a red check #50 and a silver splash #100. They are nest mates.

I hope they are still around.

Do you think that someone sent you sick birds, which infected the others? Or just pigeon keeper luck. Although if I understood you correctly, you really are not sure what the problem was.

Sometimes a pigeon can be a carrier of a "problem" and not actually be the bird that suffers and dies from that problem.

Looking forward to the inventory and training tosses.


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

I say leave all that has happened in the past and just move forward from here. Asking questions will not bring the dead birds back or help the lost birds find their way back. I think Tom has enough experience to figure out what to do from here on. 

Looking forward to the inventory count and training as well.


----------



## blongboy

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> I say leave all that has happened in the past and just move forward from here. Asking questions will not bring the dead birds back or help the lost birds find their way back. I think Tom has enough experience to figure out what to do from here on.
> 
> Looking forward to the inventory count and training as well.


i 2nd this


----------



## kbraden

Tom, sent email with my band numbers (they are ? marks on the inventory). Hope they are still with you.


----------



## conditionfreak

I understand the spilt milk way of looking at things. But these pages are full of pigeon diseases, their prevention and cures. Nothing wrong with trying to ascertain what actually was the problem and sharing that with us, for our future pigeon keeping caretaking.

But...like y'all said. What is done is done. I just hope that whatever it was, it doesn't flair up again. That happens often.

One of the best old time flyers in my combine just went through a salmonella problem in his birds. He had it diagonosed by a veterinarian. He lost 60+ birds is what I was told. That was 6 weeks ago. Now I understand that his birds are inflicted with PMV and he is battling that.

I have been to his home and loft and they are very nice and clean. But he has been buying high priced pigeons recently (I believe mostly from the Florida area) and he "thinks" one or more of those birds brought "something" into his loft. I don't know about his quarantine methods but I know he does use them.

I hope Flapdoodle got it diagnosed right and it is in fact all over. That would be great.

As we all know, bad things do happen to good people. To good pigeons also.


----------



## Crazy Pete

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> I say leave all that has happened in the past and just move forward from here. Asking questions will not bring the dead birds back or help the lost birds find their way back. I think Tom has enough experience to figure out what to do from here on.
> 
> Looking forward to the inventory count and training as well.


I agree, your family has to come first. I'm sure every thing else will work out in the long run. Now go maake your wife a pickle and peanut butter sand witch. lol
Dave


----------



## MaryOfExeter

I'm not surprised that birds have gotten sick and died, with birds coming from all over the country. Could have been something that a bird carried with it that it was immune to. Could have been transferred in through you if you visited another loft. Could have been a sparrow that snuck in and pooped in the loft. Could have been anything! It happened, and we can't do anything about it, so lets move on  Can't really blame anyone for something we have no clue who caused.

Flyoffs happen as well. I've had birds leave my loft without any reason at all  Other than they were a little too old and excited by the time I got them out. Are you sure it was the OBs that messed them up? Could have easily been a hawk attack that split them up.


----------



## rpalmer

Just a reminder ....



Xueoo said:


> My single bird shows delivered today. Sorry Tom for not giving you notice. With a 7 month old baby and a 5 year old running around, and the wife’s and my work schedules, there's not much time left for play. I'm happy I was even able to send one this year.
> 
> I was really excited about this pairing. Both parents are well conformed and have the physical look and feel I like. However, as I posted before, both have not been outside the loft or even seen the sun, and, this particular line have not been raced for a good 6-7 generations. Wait, the cock did see the sun once and I may write more about that later.
> 
> I said "was" because as it turned out, these young very late hatch parents didn't do a good job of feeding the babies. At about a week and a half old, the hen laid again and they both started to tend to the new eggs on the floor and neglected the baby. I also didn't provide quality feed for them either. They pretty much ate scratch grains the whole time with no supplements. As I said before, one got killed by a raccoon, and the one survivor did not grow up well. The baby came out thin. I hand fed it the last two days prior to shipping, so it gained a little weight, but still on the thin side. I do like the physical look to this bird and I think it will do well in the pretty contest should it still be around. How it fly’s still remains to be seen, but, I do like my chances despite it’s history, or lack of.





Xueoo said:


> No joke. It was actually worse. I didn't want to go into the mice infested feed bin...the water that only gets changed every 2 weeks or so...the dirty loft that hasn't been cleaned in, like forever...
> 
> I'm hoping the bird will blossom at Tom's. I'm thinking the first couple races might be rough, then, she (?) will kick into gear and show some tail.



He never did say it was a joke so I guess he gets the bill  .


----------



## conditionfreak

That was a for sure joke.

No one is attempting to place any blame here for the sick and dead pigeons. My interest about what the birds died from are purely for educational purposes. I am very intrested in pigeon afflictions as one bad thing could wipe out all of my little buddies, not to mention the time, effort and money I have poured into this hobby. Remember that most of us will be getting these birds back (the ones that survive the competition), and naturally there are concerns with that type of thing.

I have had a couple of birds over the past three years, die from unknown causes. Baffles me to this day. I have always assumed they were heart attacks. But I have much to learn about pigeon health.


----------



## Gnuretiree

I thought that the birds would be vaccinated for PMV when they got there. I did not vaccinate the birds I sent. Was I right about that?


----------



## Crazy Pete

I don't think he would send sick birds. He did not win in points last year but, his bird came in befor the SFL bird in the final race last year.
Dave


----------



## Timber

hillfamilyloft said:


> Sorry yours did not make it. Bummer.


Yeah I know right? But thats how it goes. I still have 1 GFTG banded bird and the 2 I donated to "West" so there is still hope yet.....LOL


----------



## Josepe

I'm sure the birds were vaccinated when they got there? What has happened has happened, and beyond anyone's control,including Flap's problems.Hopefully things can move into a routine training regimen now,with timely updates,and on to the races,with as little losses as possible for everyone.It's been a long time coming.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Even if they haven't been vaccinated yet, PMV would not cause sudden death.


----------



## Xueoo

rpalmer said:


> Just a reminder ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He never did say it was a joke so I guess he gets the bill  .


FYI, the birds got sick mid April. Mine got there May 13th...Friday the 13th, to be exact. I planned it that way... 

No joke!


----------



## rpalmer

Xueoo said:


> FYI, the birds got sick mid April. Mine got there May 13th...Friday the 13th, to be exact. I planned it that way...
> 
> No joke!


Well then it looks like your plans to take over the world are on track. Best of luck to you and everyone else who is flying.


----------



## Flapdoodle

Josepe said:


> I'm sure the birds were vaccinated when they got there? What has happened has happened, and beyond anyone's control,including Flap's problems.Hopefully things can move into a routine training regimen now,with timely updates,and on to the races,with as little losses as possible for everyone.It's been a long time coming.


I wish I could say the birds were vaccinated upon arrival. The birds have been trained out to 45 miles. We have not lost any, unfortunately that is not the case.

No vaccination as of yet. There are two other flyers vaccinating on the 4th of July. It is their tradition. One has a vaccine gun and it helps having a few extra hands. The plan is to tag along with them. 

As far as what the birds had I don't know exactly. My guess is E coli or samonella. First treatment was sulmet because that is what I had on hand. A month later I treated with something ****mycin. I can't recall right now, it is out in the loft. I think it has cleared up. Medicated a little blindly not the ideal situation. I talked to a few local flyers and one of them had the second antibiotic. 

Tonight I let all the birds out a gain. I walked through the loft and ran them all out on the landing boards. They are not all flying yet but more each time are airborn. Tonight was the first time I did not have birds all over the place, trees, roof tops. For the most part it seemed like they were either flying or on the loft. I think they are making some headway and figuring things out a little more. I counted twice 69 and 70 birds.


----------



## kbraden

So are you going to update the inventory list tonight or tomorrow so we all know who is missing and who is still with you?


----------



## Xueoo

My one bird is listed as GFTG 103 or 104, but, I think it's 110. The band I pulled off the dead nestmate is 109. Hoping that she's (?) loving paradise and hasn't flown off looking for the projects where she was born.


----------



## rackerman

*I am getting confused here.....
Tom, are you going to do the inventory today?? I was hoping you would do it today and now its Sunday morning!! I am sure everyone is wondering if their birds are still there?? I am on pins and neddles......*


Flapdoodle said:


> I wish I could say the birds were vaccinated upon arrival. The birds have been trained out to 45 miles. We have not lost any, unfortunately that is not the case.
> 
> No vaccination as of yet. There are two other flyers vaccinating on the 4th of July. It is their tradition. One has a vaccine gun and it helps having a few extra hands. The plan is to tag along with them.
> 
> As far as what the birds had I don't know exactly. My guess is E coli or samonella. First treatment was sulmet because that is what I had on hand. A month later I treated with something ****mycin. I can't recall right now, it is out in the loft. I think it has cleared up. Medicated a little blindly not the ideal situation. I talked to a few local flyers and one of them had the second antibiotic.
> 
> Tonight I let all the birds out a gain. I walked through the loft and ran them all out on the landing boards. They are not all flying yet but more each time are airborn. Tonight was the first time I did not have birds all over the place, trees, roof tops. For the most part it seemed like they were either flying or on the loft. I think they are making some headway and figuring things out a little more. I counted twice 69 and 70 birds.


----------



## JaxRacingLofts

rackerman said:


> *I am getting confused here.....
> Tom, are you going to do the inventory today?? I was hoping you would do it today and now its Sunday morning!! I am sure everyone is wondering if their birds are still there?? I am on pins and neddles......*


 Tom is doing the best he can given his current circumstances and I appreciate him giving everyone an update. I would say he did do an inventory and red highlighted the birds that will not be competing.( Not to mention the generous offer to refund the participants shipping and perch fee for the ones that didn't make it) 

I'm sure he will give a 100% head count after the 4th of July when he plans on vaccinating all the birds. As of now it seems he is still loft breaking the ybs and I doubt he is going to catch every bird just to say its "yep the bird is still here". 

Lets have a little more patience and let things play out as they will.


----------



## kbraden

Flapdoodle said:


> That 10 is now 14 . We had 84 total in the loft. I failed to add two birds that I raised and three from a local flyer to the list. Tonight we had 64 birds in the loft. *I will do a bird by bird inventory this weekend.*


I disagree Jax, I think waiting clear til July 4th is a little ridiculous to find out exactly who is still there. I know I personally would like to know if my birds are still alive & well, and I am sure others would too.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

The weekend isn't over yet guys. Be patient


----------



## rackerman

*I AGREE!!! How can we expected to be patient............*


kbraden said:


> I disagree Jax, I think waiting clear til July 4th is a little ridiculous to find out exactly who is still there. I know I personally would like to know if my birds are still alive & well, and I am sure others would too.


----------



## mtripOH

I, too would like to know how Josiah's birds are doing. It seems that Tom is a very busy man and has his hands full. There is no way that I would want to add the extra stress to my life the way that he has elected to do. I can not imagine the added work/stress he has put on himself just so us pigeon enthusiasts can sit back and enjoy his updates. Don't get me wrong. I am dying to learn how all the birds are doing, but instead of fretting over something that I have no control over I will choose to think positive and send lots of good vibes and prayers for Tom and Josiah's birds


----------



## Xueoo

If your birds are there...they are there. If not, you can't do anything about it.

No point in worrying about anything.


----------



## Flapdoodle

As far as the inventory it has not been done yet. I started to basket birds and felt like it is best for our relationship (the birds and I) to go a different route. I am sure you all have been to lofts with tame birds and lofts with more wild birds. Our birds are more on the wild side. Rather then chase them all over the loft I feel like it is better to wait until tonight. I will basket them all after dark and get the inventory done in the morning. 

I realize you are all very concerned about your birds. I will get the inventory up as early as I can in the morning.


----------



## conditionfreak

Xueoo said:


> If your birds are there...they are there. If not, you can't do anything about it.
> 
> No point in worrying about anything.


Does this also apply to my wife, kids, house and car?

I'm just asking. 

hmmm....I just had a thought. I wonder if it is possible to obtain insurance for racing pigeons? You know, like can I insure my three race winner for this season, and if he doesn't come home form the 400, can I be "paid off"?

Again, I'm just asking.


----------



## First To Hatch

conditionfreak said:


> Does this also apply to my wife, kids, house and car?
> 
> I'm just asking.
> 
> hmmm....I just had a thought. I wonder if it is possible to obtain insurance for racing pigeons? You know, like can I insure my three race winner for this season, and if he doesn't come home form the 400, can I be "paid off"?
> 
> Again, I'm just asking.


I think they have it for horses, but pigeons are "rats with wings" and we are "weird" for having these birds, so I doubt it.


----------



## Crazy Pete

You people worry too much I'm sure Tom will do a great job for the birds. I wonder what loft they are in, last years or the new old loft.
Dave


----------



## Xueoo

conditionfreak said:


> Does this also apply to my wife, kids, house and car?
> 
> I'm just asking.
> 
> hmmm....I just had a thought. I wonder if it is possible to obtain insurance for racing pigeons? You know, like can I insure my three race winner for this season, and if he doesn't come home form the 400, can I be "paid off"?
> 
> Again, I'm just asking.


Yes, it applies. What help is it to your wife that you sit at home pacing back and forth worrying while she's hanging on a cliff? If anything, it affects your health more than hers. I'm just saying...


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Can't believe your making him count pigeons on fathers day.


----------



## First To Hatch

hillfamilyloft said:


> Can't believe your making him count pigeons on fathers day.


I agree....

I'm sorry Flap for everyone.


----------



## West

I have to agree. Some of you don't realize he isn't getting paid for this. Chill out.

Oh and Timber, we can be partners now.


----------



## conditionfreak

Xueoo said:


> Yes, it applies. What help is it to your wife that you sit at home pacing back and forth worrying while she's hanging on a cliff? If anything, it affects your health more than hers. I'm just saying...


I agree that pacing and worrying won't help.. But a phone call, flowers or apology can go a looong way.

Maybe I should send Flapdoodle flowers? (and no, I ain't gay, not that there is anything wrong with that)


----------



## Timber

West said:


> Oh and Timber, we can be partners now.


LOL..........Thanks!


----------



## RodSD

Flapdoodle said:


> As far as the inventory it has not been done yet. I started to basket birds and felt like it is best for our relationship (the birds and I) to go a different route. I am sure you all have been to lofts with tame birds and lofts with more wild birds. Our birds are more on the wild side. Rather then chase them all over the loft I feel like it is better to wait until tonight. I will basket them all after dark and get the inventory done in the morning.
> 
> I realize you are all very concerned about your birds. I will get the inventory up as early as I can in the morning.


Have you tried auto-loading them like this:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdOwQ0zX3Vo&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL


----------



## Flapdoodle

*Hungry Coopers*

Still no inventory. Tonight we ran in to problems with just letting the birds come and go on there own. About 7:00 I took off the settling cages. The birds came out on the landing board a few went to the air right away. I started heading back to the house 100 yds or so away. Something spooked the birds and most took off. I have a few small tress between the house and loft and couldn't see anything. Other then birds going every direction. I went a little closer and could see a coopers on the ground. I came running up and saw he had a bird. He flew about two feet and had to drop the pigeon. The pigeon flew about fifty feet and landed on the ground. The hawk took off. I went up to the pigeon and it flew into the loft kind of crashing onto the landing board. 

I went in the loft and picked it up. It really made no attempt to fly away. There was a wound under a wing and on the neck, both puncture wounds. The bird is K2rmx.rob's bird band # I 19293. It seems like it should be ok but it is hard to say what is going on internally. 

That same coopers came back two other times tonight. Both times I was less then fifty feet from the loft. Once in landed right on the landing board almost going in the loft. Being that it is that bold I am guessing it is young and starving or feeding babies somewhere. 

When I locked up a little after dark there was one bird for sure not in the loft. It landed on a neighbors barn. I walked through the loft and counted 69 birds. Still shy 10-11 birds... I will catch all the birds in the early AM and get the inventory posted.


----------



## Crazy Pete

Glad you could save the bird, to bad you cant teach that cooper to eat lunch meat. We love to hate them but they have to eat also. good luck with the birds, looking forward to the update.
Dave


----------



## conditionfreak

I hope there are two red checks in the loft.


----------



## rackerman

*Thanks Tom!! I am glad things are looking up! I know this spring has been rough on you. I know you will do a good job. So everyone, lets just support Tom and get to racing.......*


Flapdoodle said:


> As far as the inventory it has not been done yet. I started to basket birds and felt like it is best for our relationship (the birds and I) to go a different route. I am sure you all have been to lofts with tame birds and lofts with more wild birds. Our birds are more on the wild side. Rather then chase them all over the loft I feel like it is better to wait until tonight. I will basket them all after dark and get the inventory done in the morning.
> 
> I realize you are all very concerned about your birds. I will get the inventory up as early as I can in the morning.


----------



## Flapdoodle

*Physical Inventory*

I went through all the birds. We have some birds bigger then turkeys and some that are just feathers and not much else. I did put a star by my favorites but I don't want to offend any of you that did not send CA birds so I won't list the band numbers. It reminds me of a song my great great great grandpa listened to as a kid. It went something like.... I wish they all could be California birds.... 

Hi highlighted the birds that were not in the loft green. The red highlights are birds that are dead. 

Timber you can add me to the list of people you want to kill someday. Your birds don't like me. 

If your bird is green I wouldn't say all hope is lost. I will do another physical inventory the first week in July. If they are gone both times chances are they are not coming back.


----------



## Xueoo

The star must be next to mine!


----------



## JaxRacingLofts

Xueoo said:


> The star must be next to mine!


Apple polisher


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

and mine!...


----------



## kbraden

THANK YOU for updating the inventory!!! I'm guessing it is mine that you mentioned are the size of turkeys... told you they liked to eat LOL


----------



## Gnuretiree

While I am glad to see that the birds sent by me are still around, I now have to worry about whether the problem is that they are too light, or too attractive as meals and targets for the Coopers Hawk. This pigeon flying is a tough business. I am just getting my team going here, and expect to start basketing the birds next week for some nearby road trips. I will have to prioritize whether I should be worrying here in Connecticut or about the birds in California - decisions, decisions - and I thought retired life was supposed to be easy and carefree. 
I am glad that it sounds like things are becoming a little more manageable on your end Tom and that good health has returned to your family. In all honesty, I am one of the luckiest people on earth - Life is good - and flying pigeons just makes it better.


----------



## Crazy Pete

Go on put stars by the birds you like. In the end we will see how good of a judge you are. Put 2 stars by your pick bird.
Dave


----------



## MaryOfExeter

I wouldn't be offended if my birds didn't have a star. Not all of my birds are my favorites either.

As for the difference in size/weight....

What kind of feeder are you using? I've discovered the same thing with my birds. My feeder isn't long enough to feed all the birds at the same time. So when I feed them, I put food in several other places on the floor so they can all get their fair share. Might help you too! Some birds are more dominant/old and will push the others out of the way, thus getting the most food all the time.


----------



## conditionfreak

My sincere sorrow for the KIA and MIA birds and their submitters. I lost one in last years contest and I know how it feels. Maybe some of the MIA will show up.

P.S. Flapdoodle, please remove the two gold stars next to EACH of my birds band numbers. You know me. I don't like to brag. It's a little embarrassing.


----------



## NayNay

MaryOfExeter said:


> I wouldn't be offended if my birds didn't have a star. Not all of my birds are my favorites either.
> 
> As for the difference in size/weight....
> 
> What kind of feeder are you using? I've discovered the same thing with my birds. My feeder isn't long enough to feed all the birds at the same time. So when I feed them, I put food in several other places on the floor so they can all get their fair share. Might help you too! Some birds are more dominant/old and will push the others out of the way, thus getting the most food all the time.


I'm just a little newbie- but I noticed the same thing and came to the same conclusion! Do I get a gold star?


----------



## rackerman

*I think Tom is keeping a secret, all the COV birds have the GOLD STARS........*


conditionfreak said:


> My sincere sorrow for the KIA and MIA birds and their submitters. I lost one in last years contest and I know how it feels. Maybe some of the MIA will show up.
> 
> P.S. Flapdoodle, please remove the two gold stars next to EACH of my birds band numbers. You know me. I don't like to brag. It's a little embarrassing.


----------



## drifter

MaryOfExeter said:


> I wouldn't be offended if my birds didn't have a star. Not all of my birds are my favorites either.
> 
> As for the difference in size/weight....
> 
> What kind of feeder are you using? I've discovered the same thing with my birds. My feeder isn't long enough to feed all the birds at the same time. So when I feed them, I put food in several other places on the floor so they can all get their fair share. Might help you too! Some birds are more dominant/old and will push the others out of the way, thus getting the most food all the time.


Yes, and some of the younger birds are not aggressive enough to shoulder their way in and get their share of the food Becky. Also some some younger birds do not learn to eat the larger seeds, especially peas right away. I keep feed out in front of them at all times the first three or four weeks of their life.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Which is why I said some are more dominant/old. Most of my birds learn to eat the seeds before I wean them. Which right now, I don't really have to worry about it as I'm feeding a mix of pellets, whole corn, sunflower, and very, very few little seeds/grains. So they pretty much have to learn to eat the big stuff right away


----------



## Timber

Flapdoodle said:


> Timber you can add me to the list of people you want to kill someday. Your birds don't like me.



LOL....

I was hoping that they would have lasted longer! This isnt the first time I have lost birds, so we are good. If all my entries fail, then I'll send youngsters from different pairs next year.


----------



## JaxRacingLofts

Crazy Pete said:


> Go on put stars by the birds you like. In the end we will see how good of a judge you are. Put 2 stars by your pick bird.
> Dave


During WWII the Germans used to put gold stars on their people and history tells us it did'nt turn out so well for them.


----------



## conditionfreak

Strange thing today. I had my young birds out later in the afternoon because it had rained hard for most of the day but had let up. The birds flew around a little but decided to land on the garage roof and do their flirting and pecking stuff. I was watching them to see if they all looked "normal" (ie: no ruffled feathers, limping or looking "off"). All looked well. They looked happy and content. Then I noticed one bird fall over and just lie there. A cock bird came over to it and was strutting and flirting with it. I watched it for a minute and then decided to get the ladder out. I climbed up onto the roof and got the bird. It was deader than a door nail.

I do not know why. No injuries I could see. The bird was not light. It had a good weight and feel to it. I checked the neck and noticed no sign of injury. It appeared to be the healthiest dead bird I have ever had.

I'm perplexed. Heart attack maybe?


----------



## Crazy Pete

JaxRacingLofts said:


> During WWII the Germans used to put gold stars on their people and history tells us it did'nt turn out so well for them.




Well in this case let's hope history does not repeat it self.
Dave


----------



## blongboy

finger crossed!!! hopefully mine will trap in 
he's a smart bird..... just scare

if i see that cooper, he'll be seeing alot of tennis ball flying his way


----------



## blongboy

i think i'm blind ...i see no star?


----------



## RodSD

Don't have favorites please. They get taken by predators. It is a curse. I'll tell you. Most of my favorites are now gone. Birds that I hate still exist.

This race will probably be harder than the last time because the predators have now found your loft.


----------



## JaxRacingLofts

*Poison Maybe?*



conditionfreak said:


> Strange thing today. I had my young birds out later in the afternoon because it had rained hard for most of the day but had let up. The birds flew around a little but decided to land on the garage roof and do their flirting and pecking stuff. I was watching them to see if they all looked "normal" (ie: no ruffled feathers, limping or looking "off"). All looked well. They looked happy and content. Then I noticed one bird fall over and just lie there. A cock bird came over to it and was strutting and flirting with it. I watched it for a minute and then decided to get the ladder out. I climbed up onto the roof and got the bird. It was deader than a door nail.
> 
> I do not know why. No injuries I could see. The bird was not light. It had a good weight and feel to it. I checked the neck and noticed no sign of injury. It appeared to be the healthiest dead bird I have ever had.
> 
> I'm perplexed. Heart attack maybe?


Any chance you or your neighbors have used DCON (pellet baits) rat poison or weed killer / outdoor bug spray within the last year?
edit: Also any chance your bird drank from a puddle with leaked anti-freeze in it? (I lost a kitten like that before) 
If not then next best bet would be to freeze the body and ship it to an Avian Vet for an autopsy. 
I'm sure it won't be cheap but at least once you know the cause you will be able to ensure it doesn't happen again to your other birds.


----------



## RodSD

JaxRacingLofts said:


> Any chance you or your neighbors have used DCON (pellet baits) rat poison or weed killer / outdoor bug spray within the last year?
> If not then next best bet would be to freeze the body and ship it to an Avian Vet for an autopsy.
> I'm sure it won't be cheap but at least once you know the cause you will be able to ensure it doesn't happen again to your other birds.


I think those poison don't suddenly kill pigeons right away. The birds will show symptoms of being poisoned.

I had a bird that mysteriously died like that. It flew for one hour one day and the next morning I found it dead. So I asked myself how can a bird that can fly 1 hour not healthy? Obviously another possibility was that the bird wass indeed sick, but was not showing any symptoms and when it flew it overtaxed its system and dies. I am more in line with heart-attack myself just perhaps like an athlete playing basketball and mysteriously drops dead.


----------



## conditionfreak

No antifreeze or pesticides left around here. I am out in the country, on ten acres. I am surrounded by farms of literally hundreds of acres. My birds do not land anywhere around here, except on my property. Today I watched them the entire time they were out of the loft and they stayed right here, due to the heavy rain all day prior.

Interestingly, I today had conversation with the man that I obtained this young bird from and he told me that this birds mother died ten days ago, suddenly and without any obvious signs of illness or injury. I have had this young bird for almost two months.

Maybe a clue, maybe a coincidence.


----------



## loonecho

I just checked the list again and Tom reported that he was 99% sure my missing Opal Check Splash trapped in the morning of 6/20. That was my 19th wedding aniversary and if true, it is a very nice anniversary gift.

Jim


----------



## conditionfreak

Were pics of the new loft set up put in this thread? If so, I missed them.

Flapdoodle: Is this a traditional type loft, with four solid walls, roof and ceiling? Is it up off the ground, and or does it have a metal grating floor? Are there section dividers in it or all one open space? What type of trapping system do you have? Drop trap (Belgium trap), or bob trap?

Your weather there is obviously different from mine here in Ohio and I was just wondering what type you went with.


----------



## Flapdoodle

loonecho said:


> I just checked the list again and Tom reported that he was 99% sure my missing Opal Check Splash trapped in the morning of 6/20. That was my 19th wedding aniversary and if true, it is a very nice anniversary gift.
> 
> Jim





blongboy said:


> finger crossed!!! hopefully mine will trap in
> he's a smart bird..... just scare
> 
> if i see that cooper, he'll be seeing alot of tennis ball flying his way


No longer MIA: 

NEPLS 1802
GFTG 114

They both trapped in yesterday. Mr Hawk (maybe a falcon, It seems darker then a coopers) was looking for dinner again last night. I intentionally didn't let the birds out.

I didn't see the raptor until about 8:15. Crazy thing is both times he tried to get birds Sunday he had little tweet birds chasing him as he was chasing a pigeon. As soon as he starts to fly they are right on his tail. It is crazy, they are about 1/10 his size.


----------



## Flapdoodle

conditionfreak said:


> Were pics of the new loft set up put in this thread? If so, I missed them.
> 
> Flapdoodle: Is this a traditional type loft, with four solid walls, roof and ceiling? Is it up off the ground, and or does it have a metal grating floor? Are there section dividers in it or all one open space? What type of trapping system do you have? Drop trap (Belgium trap), or bob trap?
> 
> Your weather there is obviously different from mine here in Ohio and I was just wondering what type you went with.


I O U pictures. I will make that tonights project.


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

Tom, if you get a chance or have some time, pictures of birds would be awesome also!


----------



## Josepe

Yea I think we're all looking forward to pics of the birds and loft.Thanks Tom!


----------



## rackerman

Flapdoodle said:


> I O U pictures. I will make that tonights project.


Looking forward to the pics'!!!!!!


----------



## RodSD

Flapdoodle said:


> No longer MIA:
> 
> NEPLS 1802
> GFTG 114
> 
> They both trapped in yesterday. Mr Hawk (maybe a falcon, It seems darker then a coopers) was looking for dinner again last night. I intentionally didn't let the birds out.
> 
> I didn't see the raptor until about 8:15. *Crazy thing is both times he tried to get birds Sunday he had little tweet birds chasing him as he was chasing a pigeon. As soon as he starts to fly they are right on his tail. It is crazy, they are about 1/10 his size*.


Hahaha! I see that often at my place. Some of them are the mockingbirds. Brave, but, perhaps stupid. There are other birds as well, but I don't know their kinds. It may be strange, but my ring neck doves chase crows here. So at my place from time to time you can see a ring neck dove chasing a crow and a crow chasing a hawk and a hawk eating a ring neck dove.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

I see mostly Mockingbirds pestering crows and hawks. But I also see Blue Jays doing that sometimes.


----------



## blongboy

MaryOfExeter said:


> I see mostly Mockingbirds pestering crows and hawks. But I also see Blue Jays doing that sometimes.


the have a group of jay that been around for weeks now 20+ ... they do push the hawks away..and give my pigeon a good warning


----------



## MaryOfExeter

blongboy said:


> the have a group of jay that been around for weeks now 20+ ... they do push the hawks away..and give my pigeon a good warning


They can also cry just like a hawk! They trick me a lot early in the morning when they sing.


----------



## blongboy

MaryOfExeter said:


> They can also cry just like a hawk! They trick me a lot early in the morning when they sing.


yea i know ....they got me looking for a hawk a few time


----------



## Flapdoodle

Birds are in 3 8x8 sections on the left. 4th section not finished. The fifth is a solid floor feed room. Well right now it is more of an observation platform open on three sides. Yea thats what it is, an observation platform. The left side of the loft is 20 inches off the ground the right side is 45.










Settling cages are just wire and pvc. They work pretty good. They have a hole cut in the top so birds can drop in, as the two that trapped yesterday did. That way the other birds can still go out on the landing board and birds can trap in without me being there to let them in.


----------



## Flapdoodle

This is looking down the cat walk all three sections doors are open. Birds are bathing. It was 103 today. I thought they would enjoy a bath. 



















Perches along the back wall. All three sections are the same.


----------



## Flapdoodle

Trap is simple... Red Rose is where I saw it. Same as my last loft. THis is the door all the way open. 










Here it is closed. I can open it just four or five inches the birds can drop in but can't get out. 

I will see if I can get the video working this weekend.


----------



## conditionfreak

So, for the races, you remove the settling cages and the birds step over an electronic clocking pad and drop into the loft? They would not have to drop through the hole in the top of the settling cages, on race days, right?

I guess with temps that can get to 103 or more, the open floor and 1/3 open front of the whole loft, come in very handy. Should create a good air flow.


----------



## blongboy

it looks very nice 

which landing board will be the one for racing(clocking) ..all 3?


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

Wow, the loft is looking really nice! A lot of room for the birds.

Thanks for posting the pictures!


----------



## eyespyer

The loft looks good!! Also want to say thanks for the updated list.

I see my birds are still with you. 

Keep up the good work!!!


----------



## dogging_99

Good Job!
I like the loft with those kinds of temps the birds wont want to leave the loft!
Looks very cool with lots of air flow just like a shade tree LOL.

How are you going to basket them?


----------



## Josepe

Real Nice setup.When you video this weekend some closeups of the birds would be nice.Thanks for posting the pics.


----------



## rackerman

Thanks Tom, its nice to see some pics!!


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Looks nice!


----------



## Crazy Pete

Well from the origanal pics of the loft to what you have now, I think you put a lot of love into it. GOOD JOB 
Dave


----------



## pigeonnewb

*Looking Good!!*

Seems like all the birds are doing pretty good there. I am also looking forward to the bird pictures. The loft looks great! I know everyone sent their best in their individual lofts.


----------



## NayNay

I dig that loft- super cool, literally. Great design.


----------



## blongboy

cant wait to see my blacks!


----------



## RodSD

That is a nice airy loft, but my guess is that the birds will probably be feed more food in those kinds of loft.


----------



## Gnuretiree

Was the race schedule ever posted?


----------



## Flapdoodle

*I hate the mac*

I have the picture thing down still trying to figure out video. Here is a link to 72 unedited pictures. Some are blury, dark, etc. Hope you can view them. They were all taken a couple minutes from each other. Some look really dark but it is just the camera exposure. I was going to try to go through and just pick out a few good ones but I am going to need to make you guys go through them all. 

https://picasaweb.google.com/105750025085719736038/Birds?authkey=Gv1sRgCKziiJueksDA7gE&feat=directlink

After the visit from what I think is a sharp shined hawk last week, we have not had any other issues. I left the birds locked up for a few days. Last night I let them have open loft. 

Still working on the best way to basket them all quickly and easily. I have been working on a loading shoot of sorts. This week I plan to get it set up and give the birds access to it during the day. I might feed them in it a few times. Until it is set up there is no catching them unless it is dark and off their perch.


----------



## rackerman

*Thanks for the pics' Tom!! The birds look healthy!! Looking forward to more updates!!
Good job!!*


----------



## MaryOfExeter

I'm going out on a limb and assuming this check is mine


----------



## kbraden

Saw one of mine, a dark blue check in the 4th, 5th & 6th pics, my red check must have been out to lunch LOL


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

The birds look good....can't tell which one is mine though.

The black one might be mine.


----------



## First To Hatch

MaryOfExeter said:


>


I like that one on the left, what color is that a black splash?


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

I think that would be called a T-Pattern Splash...


----------



## dogging_99

Could be my Silver but don't remember any white feathers tailing of the eye but maybe came in after the molt.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

First To Hatch said:


> I like that one on the left, what color is that a black splash?


Blue t-pattern splash. You could also call it a dark check splash or blue velvet splash.


----------



## First To Hatch

Either way its a cool looking bird, head looks almost likes a roller to me lol.


----------



## conditionfreak

dogging_99 said:


> Could be my Silver but don't remember any white feathers tailing of the eye but maybe came in after the molt.


Pretty sure this is my silver splash.

But don't let that stop you from voting for it as the prettiest bird. 

Flapdoodle, you could not have made it more obvious that this bird has a star next to its band number on your bird list. Half of the pics you took are of this bird.

Majestic, isn't he.


----------



## Xueoo

I see mine. Just gotta look for a small scrawny malnourished looking "flying" (some say they can't be called "racing" pigeons because they haven't been raced) pigeon and that's the one...

Lot's of white flights this year, and...them wedding birds


----------



## NayNay

I like all the sequential action shots where you can see the wings flapadoodling- and can animate them if you click fast enough.


----------



## blongboy

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> The birds look good....can't tell which one is mine though.
> 
> The black one might be mine.


i think that black is yours ...mine have gold band on them


----------



## rackerman

When does the road training begin? I don't feel like going through every post here, anyone remember??


----------



## blongboy

when is the prettiest bird contest??
i see alot of nice birds already ,,my black might not win


----------



## conditionfreak

This is me, twiddling my thumbs.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

With all of these pied birds, and that opal (whosever it is, you should send me some just like'em!), I'm never going to win the prettiest bird contest! I thought I was doing good with my oddly bronzed bird, but from the looks of it, not all of the pattern has washed out like it should. So it's kinda ugly now. Poop


----------



## rackerman

*Has anyone heard from Tom? Didn't he say he was going to vacinate the bird during the 4th??? *


----------



## Josepe

That's what he said,and another physical inventory the first week of July.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

You guys already worked him Father's Day, we should give him the fourth off.


----------



## rackerman

*LOL, me too Walt.....*


conditionfreak said:


> This is me, twiddling my thumbs.


----------



## rackerman

*You have to be kidding. We have to keep him from making babies somehow........LOL*


hillfamilyloft said:


> You guys already worked him Father's Day, we should give him the fourth off.


----------



## Big T

rackerman said:


> *You have to be kidding. We have to keep him from making babies somehow........LOL*


Only the wife can stop him from that and ya'll all know it.

Tony


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

hillfamilyloft said:


> You guys already worked him Father's Day, we should give him the fourth off.


Randy, If I ever hold a one loft race of my own in the future, I hope everyone who enters will be as nice and foregiving as you! 

I'm getting a little bit anxious about seeing a video update myslef or maybe the prettiest bird video!


----------



## Flapdoodle

conditionfreak said:


> This is me, twiddling my thumbs.


I have the chip rings the plan is to vaccinate and ring Thursday. The 4th didn't work out. 

Wife and kids are heading up to Lake Tahoe for a couple of days. I hope to be able to get a video, finish the loading shoot, vaccinate, get the chip rings on. 

keep twiddling 

maybe even hold your breath


----------



## rackerman

*Thanks Tom, Looking forward to everything. I am twiddling too.........*


Flapdoodle said:


> I have the chip rings the plan is to vaccinate and ring Thursday. The 4th didn't work out.
> 
> Wife and kids are heading up to Lake Tahoe for a couple of days. I hope to be able to get a video, finish the loading shoot, vaccinate, get the chip rings on.
> 
> keep twiddling
> 
> maybe even hold your breath


----------



## conditionfreak

This is me passing out from holding my breath...............................................................................................................................................................................................................


----------



## Gnuretiree

I'm vaccinating here in Connecticut today and hope to start road training within the week. How does the PT team look? When is the first race?


----------



## conditionfreak

So....I took my birds on a training toss yesterday. Both old and young birds. Approximately 55 miles, across the Ohio river.

Out of a total of 36 birds (18 old and 18 young), all 18 old birds and 9 young birds beat me home.

This morning, several more were waiting for me to open the loft and let them in. I had closed it up so that I knew which ones had been out overnight.

Late in the afternoon I was still out two young birds. I still had the loft closed up. It was 98 degrees in the shade. A hot muggy day. I'm out back in the yard and a young pigeon comes out of the sky and lands on the landing board aviary cover. It quickly determines it can't get in. It looks around and sees me about 100 feet away, giving the dogs in the kennels fresh water. I'm watching the pigeon. It flies directly over to me and lands on the gorund at my feet. It grunts "that pigeon growl thing". I walk past it and over to the loft to open it and allow it to go in. The pigeon is flying small circles around me as I walk. Then it lands on a picnic table set up right in front of the loft. I open the loft and it flies in imediately and goes for the drinking water.

Darndest thing I ever had a pigeon do. I felt like it came to me and demanded I go open the loft. Post haste. 

Who's training whom?


----------



## horseart4u

conditionfreak said:


> So....I took my birds on a training toss yesterday. Both old and young birds. Approximately 55 miles, across the Ohio river.
> 
> Out of a total of 36 birds (18 old and 18 young), all 18 old birds and 9 young birds beat me home.
> 
> This morning, several more were waiting for me to open the loft and let them in. I had closed it up so that I knew which ones had been out overnight.
> 
> Late in the afternoon I was still out two young birds. I still had the loft closed up. It was 98 degrees in the shade. A hot muggy day. I'm out back in the yard and a young pigeon comes out of the sky and lands on the landing board aviary cover. It quickly determines it can't get in. It looks around and sees me about 100 feet away, giving the dogs in the kennels fresh water. I'm watching the pigeon. It flies directly over to me and lands on the gorund at my feet. It grunts "that pigeon growl thing". I walk past it and over to the loft to open it and allow it to go in. The pigeon is flying small circles around me as I walk. Then it lands on a picnic table set up right in front of the loft. I open the loft and it flies in imediately and goes for the drinking water.
> 
> Darndest thing I ever had a pigeon do. I felt like it came to me and demanded I go open the loft. Post haste.
> 
> Who's training whom?


thats so cool..i used to have 5 birds that used to walk behind me up and down my street when i was in middle school  that was our daily thing i would walk from corner to corner then i would say "go home" clap my hands and off they went back to the coop.


----------



## Flapdoodle

Hi All,

I have a sweet video with a few seconds of every bird, set it to music, have the birds numbered so you can vote on the prettiest one, the stinking computer has crashed three times trying to upload it. I hope to get it uploaded tomorrow from my office. I have better internet connection there. Keep your fingers crossed it works. It only took about six hours to put together. I am about ready to throw the computer through the wall.


----------



## newtopidgeons

Can anyone vote for prettiest bird are do you have to have an entry to vote?


----------



## NayNay

Flapdoodle said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I have a sweet video with a few seconds of every bird, set it to music, have the birds numbered so you can vote on the prettiest one, the stinking computer has crashed three times trying to upload it. I hope to get it uploaded tomorrow from my office. I have better internet connection there. Keep your fingers crossed it works. It only took about six hours to put together. I am about ready to throw the computer through the wall.


I hate it when computer stuff goes like that.  
Your video sounds so super awesome- can't wait to see it!


----------



## conditionfreak

Sad news received from Flapdoodle today. My COV 50 (red check) entry had an accident and is dead. It was a freak accident whereupon it got its leg caught between a board and some netting. The leg broke and the bird was found hanging upside down and deceased.

The netting and board have been arranged differently, to avoid this type of accident in the future.

So sad....poor little bird. It's only a pigeon, but it does hurt.

Now I only have one hope left in the competition. Cov 100. (silver splash)


----------



## First To Hatch

conditionfreak said:


> Sad news received from Flapdoodle today. My COV 50 (red check) entry had an accident and is dead. It was a freak accident whereupon it got its leg caught between a board and some netting. The leg broke and the bird was found hanging upside down and deceased.
> 
> The netting and board have been arranged differently, to avoid this type of accident in the future.
> 
> So sad....poor little bird. It's only a pigeon, but it does hurt.
> 
> Now I only have one hope left in the competition. Cov 100. (silver splash)


Thats very sad way to have to see that, thats terrible.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Sounds like my week. I have two down a baby and a hen from a snake. Still have not found the snake. Also have an old cock not looking so good, one of my best. But on a better note. A few birds I sold a guy a few years ago paid me a visit. They came swooping in out of the sky last night, hit the landing board and came right in. Don't have the guys number anymore. Someone said he had a heart attack. Will keep looking. If I cannot find the owner, the cock was one of my best breeders. I sold him for $5 before I realized it. The irony is that the hen that showed up is the daughter of my ill bird.


----------



## First To Hatch

hillfamilyloft said:


> Sounds like my week. I have two down a baby and a hen from a snake. Still have not found the snake. Also have an old cock not looking so good, one of my best. But on a better note. A few birds I sold a guy a few years ago paid me a visit. They came swooping in out of the sky last night, hit the landing board and came right in. Don't have the guys number anymore. Someone said he had a heart attack. Will keep looking. If I cannot find the owner, the cock was one of my best breeders. I sold him for $5 before I realized it. The irony is that the hen that showed up is the daughter of my ill bird.


Thats an interesting story, always fun to read something like that.


----------



## Flapdoodle

Watch the video, write down your favorites, watch it again, then pick just one! For the prettiest bird and best average speed anyone can vote, sent birds or not, please only those that sent birds vote on the last question. 

Who has the Prettiest Pigeon? Video 

Vote HERE 

Vote for the prettiest bird as well as the bird that will take average speed (not that you can tell from a two second video).

I added another question with regarding the races. The combine voted to reduce shipping limits from 20 to 15 birds. That means I can send 30 birds each week to the races, the rest as trainers. For the amount of money the upfront is going to cost I can get the birds over the hill three or four times. Lets say 175, 200, 250 and 300 miles. Release just our birds on our own. A traditional one loft deal. Or we can just proceed as originally planned with the club races. 

The club races start the last week in August (five weeks). Anyone have any thoughts? Post away... vote which way you prefer. 

Voting will be up until Monday morning July 18th.

I hope everyone enjoys the video.. (sorry some of the clips are short)

In going through all the birds Walt's COV 50  and one local bird are no longer in the loft. I updated the bird list accordingly.


----------



## pigeonnewb

Great video Tom! Some of the numbers is hard to see but other than that great pictures. I bet it did take a while to show em all!


----------



## luckyloft

Thanks for the video! I liked 67 never had any blacks before but I like they way they look.I still say you live in some beautiful country out there.Thanks again for all the hard work. Jeff


----------



## A_Smith

*Thanks*

Good video. Hard to decide who to vote for.


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## rackerman

*Thanks Tom!! Can't wait for the races.....

Walt, I am so, so sorry about Cov 50....*


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## blongboy

45 looks like mine lol


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## hillfamilyloft

I would stick with the club races since you want to win champion loft. Don't know why guys want to limit things so much. Our club cut it to 20. They are getting some races later in the season with a half full truck. I do agree with limits, but 15 is pretty low. Not that your club does not have the room. Seems the guys with 10 birds are running the show. Anything to have a better chance at the top of the sheet. Would be easy to say 30 birds or a full truck whichever comes first. See guys that can't win, gain power in the club and then manipulate what they can to gain an advantage. 
On the other side we had three or four guys start their own club with no limits. A race this last year, saw a flier with the first 100 or so spots. Not fun either. A guy gets the top 15 spots instead of the top 20 still beat the pants off of everyone. 16th or 21st you still did not win. Don't see the point if you will let everyone train as many as they want to on the truck. I would rather win against 500 birds then 300.


----------



## newtopidgeons

hillfamilyloft said:


> I would stick with the club races since you want to win champion loft. Don't know why guys want to limit things so much. Our club cut it to 20. They are getting some races later in the season with a half full truck. I do agree with limits, but 15 is pretty low. Not that your club does not have the room. Seems the guys with 10 birds are running the show. Anything to have a better chance at the top of the sheet. Would be easy to say 30 birds or a full truck whichever comes first. See guys that can't win, gain power in the club and then manipulate what they can to gain an advantage.
> On the other side we had three or four guys start their own club with no limits. A race this last year, saw a flier with the first 100 or so spots. Not fun either. A guy gets the top 15 spots instead of the top 20 still beat the pants off of everyone. 16th or 21st you still did not win. Don't see the point if you will let everyone train as many as they want to on the truck. I would rather win against 500 birds then 300.


I see what your saying, if there are room for training bird only thrn why couldnt they just be clocked as well? I thought the limits were actually for room sakes firstly, then the controversy over "flock" flying, but to each his own. I would only be concerned about the room issue.


----------



## Crazy Pete

Why are there some in red, green, and yellow on the list?
Did I miss some thing?
Dave


----------



## eyespyer

Flapdoodle said:


> Watch the video, write down your favorites, watch it again, then pick just one! For the prettiest bird and best average speed anyone can vote, sent birds or not, please only those that sent birds vote on the last question.
> 
> Who has the Prettiest Pigeon? Video
> 
> Vote HERE
> 
> Vote for the prettiest bird as well as the bird that will take average speed (not that you can tell from a two second video).
> 
> I added another question with regarding the races. The combine voted to reduce shipping limits from 20 to 15 birds. That means I can send 30 birds each week to the races, the rest as trainers. For the amount of money the upfront is going to cost I can get the birds over the hill three or four times. Lets say 175, 200, 250 and 300 miles. Release just our birds on our own. A traditional one loft deal. Or we can just proceed as originally planned with the club races.
> 
> The club races start the last week in August (five weeks). Anyone have any thoughts? Post away... vote which way you prefer.
> 
> Voting will be up until Monday morning July 18th.
> 
> I hope everyone enjoys the video.. (sorry some of the clips are short)
> 
> In going through all the birds Walt's COV 50  and one local bird are no longer in the loft. I updated the bird list accordingly.


Great job!!! keep up the good work. I know it is a lot of work and we all appreciate it. Thanks !!!


----------



## rpalmer

Crazy Pete said:


> Why are there some in red, green, and yellow on the list?
> Did I miss some thing?
> Dave


Green = Missing
Red = Dead
Yellow = Info needed

IIRC.


----------



## jpsnapdy

rackerman said:


> *Thanks Tom!! Can't wait for the races.....
> 
> Walt, I am so, so sorry about Cov 50....*


SAME HERE !
It's always sad to lose a bird in such a way.


----------



## Crazy Pete

Thanks I didn't want to reread all the posts.
Dave


----------



## conditionfreak

I'm a little disappointed with my own combine. The racing fees went up ato $394.00 for old and young birds (total). Plus $30 for combine fees. Then club fees and AU fees. 

We combined our seasons (flying old and young together, starting this coming Saturday), with the reasoning being that it would be cheaper.

But it is actually more expensive. "They" counter that we save some because we can train the old and young at the same time. Thus saving on fuel. But it really doesn't work out like that. Old birds go their distance and young birds go their distances. Sure, you can drop the young birds off shorter and then go on to the old bird release training location. But how much does that save? Then you can not try to be there when your birds arrive.

They also say that the fees went up because we lost a few members. But what they don't say is that we lost members because of this simultaneous racing season. Some flyers didn't like it and joined another combine.

Not to mention the labor and extra baskets I had to obtain to basket young and old for training tosses. It is a chore to basket all of my birds at once. On a smash day, I could lose everything except for my prisoner breeders.

We haven't even started the racing season yet and already I do not like it.

I didn't even mention yet, that we changed the course direction again. Three years in a row we have changed direction.

Racing in July, August and September, through Ky., Tenn., Alabama and Georgia is going to be hot, hot, hot.


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

luckyloft said:


> Thanks for the video! I liked 67 never had any blacks before but I like they way they look.I still say you live in some beautiful country out there.Thanks again for all the hard work. Jeff


I like blacks so I chose 67 also and I think it's my bird judging by what I think is a little pied marking by the eye. 

For my BC it's hard to tell which was mine. Could be 1, 33, 44 or none of those. 

Good luck everyone!


----------



## hillfamilyloft

conditionfreak said:


> I'm a little disappointed with my own combine. The racing fees went up ato $394.00 for old and young birds (total). Plus $30 for combine fees. Then club fees and AU fees.
> 
> We combined our seasons (flying old and young together, starting this coming Saturday), with the reasoning being that it would be cheaper.
> 
> But it is actually more expensive. "They" counter that we save some because we can train the old and young at the same time. Thus saving on fuel. But it really doesn't work out like that. Old birds go their distance and young birds go their distances. Sure, you can drop the young birds off shorter and then go on to the old bird release training location. But how much does that save? Then you can not try to be there when your birds arrive.
> 
> They also say that the fees went up because we lost a few members. But what they don't say is that we lost members because of this simultaneous racing season. Some flyers didn't like it and joined another combine.
> 
> Not to mention the labor and extra baskets I had to obtain to basket young and old for training tosses. It is a chore to basket all of my birds at once. On a smash day, I could lose everything except for my prisoner breeders.
> 
> We haven't even started the racing season yet and already I do not like it.
> 
> I didn't even mention yet, that we changed the course direction again. Three years in a row we have changed direction.
> 
> Racing in July, August and September, through Ky., Tenn., Alabama and Georgia is going to be hot, hot, hot.


I think what it comes down to is when selfishness of the individual dictates the club things go wrong. Yes we elect the president, but it still does not mean he/she is not selfish. I think the AU should set some ground rules that would keep more clubs together. ie. Bird limits. Say max 30. Direction: each club must specify 2 to 4 race courses that are feasible for old and young bird. Alternate through them each year. These two issues seem to break more clubs up than any other. Our club usually figures this out the week before racing starts and looses a few fliers. Our club toyed with the idea of combining seasons, let us know how that works. The AU could here dictate a racing window for old and young birds. Whats best for the birds not the fliers. Warmer climates should not be racing in July or August nor Idaho in Dec. If the IF and AU want to retain members they might want to rule more. I hate too much government, but when the people are having difficulty running things right, government needs a bit more power.


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## rpalmer

hillfamilyloft said:


> Clip .... government needs a bit more power.


If government is the answer, then it was a stupid question. No really.


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## pigeonnewb

hillfamilyloft said:


> I think what it comes down to is when selfishness of the individual dictates the club things go wrong. Yes we elect the president, but it still does not mean he/she is not selfish. I think the AU should set some ground rules that would keep more clubs together. ie. Bird limits. Say max 30. Direction: each club must specify 2 to 4 race courses that are feasible for old and young bird. Alternate through them each year. These two issues seem to break more clubs up than any other. Our club usually figures this out the week before racing starts and looses a few fliers. Our club toyed with the idea of combining seasons, let us know how that works. The AU could here dictate a racing window for old and young birds. Whats best for the birds not the fliers. Warmer climates should not be racing in July or August nor Idaho in Dec. If the IF and AU want to retain members they might want to rule more. I hate too much government, but when the people are having difficulty running things right, government needs a bit more power.


I don't usually post any responses but I don't agree with you on this Randy, the AU does not implement complete control of racing pigeon ethics because it would vary from club to club and region to region. I would like to think that the members in their regions would be doing what is best for the birds. I do not believe any individual would want to put their birds in jeopardy (intentionally). I.E. sending them to a race in July or August unless they know that the birds can handle the race. Sure every year the climate changes and most of the time its unpredictable (to some extent) right now here in Fresno we have 85 degrees and WE HAVEN'T had that in..... shoot never that I can remember anyways. If there are disagreements and it can't be solved by bringing it up during club meetings then maybe the clubs are better off splitting up. There is nothing in this pigeon hobby that can't be solved at the local level if it is addressed and executed to find a solution. My club has our rants and raves every meeting, and we all still have our heads on after each meeting. Doesn't mean we have to like the end results but we know that sometimes you just gotta suck it up and just go with it. I believe the AU has brought this subject up before many times and I believe they have made the best decision based on the current situations around the country right now. Some things are meant to be left to the clubs. *Just like some laws are left to the states to decide how to enforce them.*

Chou


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## hillfamilyloft

Just saying if you leave laws to be interpreted they will be. And mostly to a selfish benefit. Leave too much at the club level and you will get what we are getting. Like sports, if every pro team was left up to interpret the rules and say have 40 guys on the field and another say 10 we would have issues. Our club has gone so far with bird limits as to limit a junior member to 5 birds if his dad races. Don't think the AU needs complete control, but could possibly standardize the most controversial rules, like limits and direction. From what I have seen clubs can't do this well. 

As for government, I mean the AU and IF, not Obama.


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## hillfamilyloft

Think about it. A club just changed our bird limit from 20 to 15. Didn't you think it was 20 when you sent your birds to the PT race. We are going to have a bunch of birds sitting the bench. The guy that raised 50 birds to fly 20 is also peaved. I would like it set in stone before I paired birds. Not knowing what direction you are flying until right before the races is also annoying. We have had early breeders start road training and have to change directions. Just looking for fixes.


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## Crazy Pete

I wish our club would change directions I'm tired of always being on the short end.
Dave


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## rpalmer

The surest "fix" for loft limits is for the club to use mechanical clocks! Would it change results. I don't know. Would it favor any one? I don't think so. While it seems like a huge step backwards, it might be the correct step in the right direction.

As for routes.... Life sucks. But I think the best birds would win assuming all things are as equal as is humanly possible. But then, given that, the route would be permanent. 

Renier Gurnay had similar club problems. But his birds put everyone in their place. Which was somewhere after him. And that's the rub today as well for those who spent a small fortune on birds looking for the shortcut to the top of the race sheet and just can't make it. And the rub there is the money. People would rather kiss their feet than lose them so they make allowances for them. And that is just sad.


----------



## West

There's an A and B race so the guy that raised 50 birds shouldn't be that upset. I can somewhat understand the limit on the junior member, as unfortunately many people use their children as a way to ship more birds if there is a shipping limit. I guess the easiest way would be to do follow ups with the individual and see if the child is actually caring for the birds or has their own loft. Anyways I voted for our own personal race series though unless Tom is really interested in competing in the club/combine. I think it would be cool to see how the birds do against each other in one single release.


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## Josepe

How is everyone votiing on Tom's proposal,by PM,on here or what?


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## MaryOfExeter

West said:


> There's an A and B race so the guy that raised 50 birds shouldn't be that upset. I can somewhat understand the limit on the junior member, as unfortunately many people use their children as a way to ship more birds if there is a shipping limit. I guess the easiest way would be to do follow ups with the individual and see if the child is actually caring for the birds or has their own loft. Anyways I voted for our own personal race series though unless Tom is really interested in competing in the club/combine. I think it would be cool to see how the birds do against each other in one single release.


But that is totally unfair for people like me who raise their own birds. My dad had to join the club and pay dues just so I could use his spots on the trailer and be able to ship the full limit. Otherwise I'd get 5 bird limits. Of course all of that will change August when I turn 18. But still. So yes, I agree that a loft visit should be done to see if the kids name is being used or if they are actually racing.


----------



## JaxRacingLofts

Thank You Tom for taking the time to make the video. Well done! 

Along the lines of Goldenboy I will disclose my picks. Even though I do not believe the bird to be my entry I really like 61 for the prettiest bird. 

For best average speed I'm leaning to wards 59 (Please do not let that be the bird that passed away..I am sorry for your loss) I'm not a big fan of red pigeons but 59 looks sharp. Whoever bred and entered that should be proud that is a really nice looking bird. 

Last, I vote to race with your club. Kind of a rough dilemma only being able to submit 15 bird in the A and B race. Either way, I say race for Champion Loft. When its all said and done well see how our East coast birds compare to the West coast entries. Thats the fun part anyway...let the jive talking begin.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

45 for looks (those blacks have the looks and not just color)
31 for Average Speed (no reason, if we could pick winners by looks this sport would be easy) (the bird seemed strong)


----------



## kbraden

Josepe said:


> How is everyone votiing on Tom's proposal,by PM,on here or what?


When you vote for prettiest bird & fastest bird, the loft race vote is at the bottom of the form.


----------



## rpalmer

Well since everybody is telling... I voted for #40. That was the only vote I cast. Good luck to all the entrants.


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## Josepe

"When you vote for prettiest bird & fastest bird, the loft race vote is at the bottom of the form.

What form??


----------



## rackerman

*Josepe, go to post 1100 in this thread and it will say VOTE HERE, click on there & then you can vote.....*


Josepe said:


> "When you vote for prettiest bird & fastest bird, the loft race vote is at the bottom of the form.
> 
> What form??


----------



## Xueoo

Winner is 12.


----------



## Thunderbird Racing

Xueoo said:


> Winner is 12.


that was my pick too


----------



## Josepe

Thanks,I must've been Blind


----------



## Josepe

In reference to a one loft race,if that's the way the vote turns out.175 mi is a pretty good jump for a first toss isn't it? From what I've seen most club races and one lofters start at a 100 don't they?


----------



## Josepe

Alrighty then,couldn't hardly wade through all the replies


----------



## drifter

Patience is the greatest of all virtues.


----------



## Crazy Pete

What are you afraid your birds can't make that long of a first race? With good training, and I'm sure Tom will, they should be able to follow mine home. lol
Dave


----------



## Matt Bell

Josepe said:


> In reference to a one loft race,if that's the way the vote turns out.175 mi is a pretty good jump for a first toss isn't it? From what I've seen most club races and one lofters start at a 100 don't they?


100 is usually just an average. Many times the short guys are 75 miles and the long guys are 175+ so just because a race is said to be '100 miles' thats not really true when it comes to club/combine/concourse/federation racing.


----------



## Josepe

Thanks Matt,I understand now.

Crazy Pete,
No,was just wondering.I'm sure when my birds make it it won't be Behind your birds.Time will tell.


----------



## Crazy Pete

I was just havin some fun. lol
Dave


----------



## Josepe

I figured that.


----------



## Crazy Pete

You sound pretty confident, any way we can make a small wager?
Dave


----------



## Josepe

I believe in the birds.PM me.


----------



## conditionfreak

Well. We had our first race of the year this past Saturday. (not talking about the PT competition here)

We raced both old birds and young birds on the same day. Released one half hour apart. It was an overcast day and between the release point and the home point (Cincinnati), there was "fog", according to the weather people. It was not foggy at the release point. The liberator said the birds circled for awhile and then left.

My personal results were disastrous. I lost so many good birds. I sent 26 young birds and got two back on the day. Three more the following day. That's it.

I sent 16 old birds and got back five on race day. Three more the following day and two today.

This was a 100 mile race, although I am the long end guy (138 miles for me). The short end guy only flies 92 miles. He sent forty young birds (A and B race), and only got back one on race day. Yep, one. Hasn't got any since. The members of my club and combine, that live on the east side of the city, had very bad results. The members on the west side, not so bad. Still not good though. The winners will probably be around four hours on the wing. No results yet. Just going by word of mouth.

I am devasted. I lost some really good old birds, that have been there and done that.

I lost all of the birds I obtained from "ace in the hole" save for one. #19267. I lost all of the birds I obtained from Cabin Loft. Sorry guys. Hopefully they will come back but it ain't looking good. The weather is calling for hot, hot and more hot this week.

Ace in the Hole, LCC 457 (old bird) did make it back, but was a couple of hours late. #19267 (young bird) did okay. Not a winner though. So far no sign of his nest mate 19266. I also lost one of my favorites, #19251. Did I ever tell you that it has eleven flights on its' right wing? Sadly, its gone right now. I had a red check with eleven flights also. It too is MIA.

I am down to just a handful of young birds after only one race. I lost many of my old birds, that have been 400 miles as young birds last year. (our 350 race was 400 for me).

I can't explain it. Even if I factor in that my birds suck and I suck, it doesn't explain how one guy (who is a great flyer and always "up there" in the results), lost 39 of 40 young birds sent. He lost most of his old birds also. No other clubs should have been flying this time of year. Some could have been training though, I guess. A flyer that lives five miles from me, had huge losses also. He is almost done after one 100 mile race (like me). He says he is going to give up racing pigeons. I know how he feels. He is in his seventies and is a darn good flyer. Been racing pigeons for over 65 years.

I am sooo bummed out. A years worth of work, time, money and hopes. Dashed to the ground for my young birds. I lost all of my money banded birds. My auction birds. My raffle bird. I just put the electronic bands on them two days prior. They had been trained well, although not over 60 miles. It was supposed to be a simple 100 mile race. The weather said it was not going to be a bad day. It was not bad at my home. Just overcast. 

I did hold back ten young birds, but I held them back because I didn't think they were ready. Third rounders.

Now I have to get them ready, or I will have nothing to fly in the end of the year Classic Race. But I don't think there is enough time to get them ready to race 350 miles, so I may just keep them for old birds next year.

Man, this sucks.

Sorry. I just needed to vent.


----------



## ace in the hole

Sorry to hear that Walt. I figured no news was probably bad news. With the heat wave this week it may hurt your returns on this one. I really feel for you Walt. 

So now you can go to the club and let them know what a great idea it was to set it up to ruin both an old bird and young bird season in one day.


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## hillfamilyloft

Back to my point. Common sense and whats better for the birds does not come into play when many clubs make decisions. Our club flies in September and Nov. Why, because it is too damn hot in July. Does not take an idiot to understand this. Putting old with young and flying them in July, what were they thinking.


----------



## Crazy Pete

I don't see the problem with flying old and young togeather, except the part where they start the season in July. Now thats just plain wrong, Its been over 100 the last week. If you don't want to go out side, what makes them think the birds do. If I wanted to race in the heat I would move to Texas.
Dave


----------



## conditionfreak

I didn't even mention that when my club got to the combine shipping location, with our birds ready to put on the trailer. They told us to put the old birds in four different sections of the trailer. I asked which of those four sections were for cock birds and which for hens and they said that it didn't matter. That a mistake had been made and the cocks and hens were mixed in with each other, so just put them all together.

Now, I don't see that as a problem for my birds, but if someone was flying a widowhood system, that would probably mess them up, I would think.

Today it is like a hundred degrees out there. It is supposed to be really hot this coming Saturday. The date of our second race. I think I am going to skip it. The birds I did have come home, were worn out for the most part. The early ones seemed not to bad. My neighbor (five miles away) and I are discussing flying with a different club and combine next year. It is also an hours drive away (if not a little more), but they fly separate seasons.

Plus, they charge shipping by the bird. So you don't pay a year in advance. I just paid 400 bucks for shipping, and I lost most of my birds in the first race. Most of that money is wasted. If I was in a different combine that pays "by the bird", then if I lose everything or don't want to participate in every race, it won't cost me 400 bucks. Plus, those that ship all the birds allowed, pay more. I usually don't come near the limit for shipping. True that my few birds and their many birds have to be taken to the same location, but they have a better percentage chance of winning. So let them pay more (because we would be paying "by the bird" and not a flat fee). I'm not sure in my own mind yet, if that would be fair or unfair. I have to think about it some more.

Not to mention that I just put the electronic bands on my birds last Thursday, at $2.50 each.

I have a lot to consider, but I think that I am just in a bad mood right now and need to cool off before making any decisions.

I love this sport, but sometimes it drives me up a wall.

Maybe I should take up mountain climbing as a hobby. I think it is easier. 

EDIT: I just checked the themometer and it is 104 at my property, at just before 6 pm. I don't know how hot it is going to be this Saturday for the second race, but it is supposed to be like today. I bet it was 106 or 7 here early this afternoon. Crazy stuff. This is Ohio. Not Mississippi.


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## Ashby Loft

Wow. That's a bad deal all around. I hope a few more birds will come back for you and the rest of your club. Sounds like a lot of bad decisions and a worst case scenario that came to pass.

I feel for you. I'm only out a few birds through training and I already feel bad about losing those.


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## Kastle Loft

Walt, where was the race station? Are you going down i75?


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## conditionfreak

We raced from Shepherdsville, Kentucky to Cincinnati. I believe that pretty much is I-65.

I had one all white old bird (that I didn't think would show up) and one young bird come home today. They were not together when they came. The white bird was so worn out, I was able to walk up to the landing board and pick it up. I hae never been able to do that before. It was exhausted and very hungry and thirsty. The young bird was not so bad. It is my "raffle bird", so that was a pleasant surprise. It was well over one hundred degrees today, so I didn't expect anything.

Sometimes when race birds are out for a few days in heat like this. They have to drink. Water is not hard to find in most places, but sometimes they see some liquid at a truck terminal or whatever, and they drink it. Not understanding that maybe it is mixed with fuel, or oil, or worse yet, anti-freeze. Then they come home and you are happy they did, only to find them dead in the loft the next day. Doesn't happen often, but does happen. And you are left wondering why it is dead.

Hope I get more home in the next couple of days.


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## Crazy Pete

I don't think you should sit next week out. The birds that were home on the day, with 2 days rest and a couple training tosses will be ready next week. If the muscle looks good and they are in form you have to send them or they will not be ready for the 3 rd race. The birds that did come home on the day must be some damn fine birds. JMO
Dave


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## blongboy

so who won the prettiest contest?


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## rpalmer

conditionfreak said:


> We raced from Shepherdsville, Kentucky to Cincinnati. I believe that pretty much is I-65.
> 
> I had one all white old bird (that I didn't think would show up) and one young bird come home today. They were not together when they came. The white bird was so worn out, I was able to walk up to the landing board and pick it up. I hae never been able to do that before. It was exhausted and very hungry and thirsty. The young bird was not so bad. It is my "raffle bird", so that was a pleasant surprise. It was well over one hundred degrees today, so I didn't expect anything.
> 
> Sometimes when race birds are out for a few days in heat like this. They have to drink. Water is not hard to find in most places, but sometimes they see some liquid at a truck terminal or whatever, and they drink it. Not understanding that maybe it is mixed with fuel, or oil, or worse yet, anti-freeze. Then they come home and you are happy they did, only to find them dead in the loft the next day. Doesn't happen often, but does happen. And you are left wondering why it is dead.
> 
> Hope I get more home in the next couple of days.



I tried to stay away from this but I can't so here are my opinions.

In your (our) climate I would never race in July and August. If that meant I lost points towards an award so be it. It is just too hot and the humidity is also too high. 

Someone needs to look very closely at the people who transported and released the birds. While thirst in this weather is understandable, them being very hungry does not sound right. Who or what is very hungry in this heat? Or to be more blunt and to the point, you need a new crew with that transport. To accept anything else is accepting cruelty to the best birds your club has and a kiss good-buy to those that you ship.

The hardest part is self examination. If you and the other member who lost all but one bird so far are feeding the same and training the same it is time to look at what was changed from getting the birds home to now. The race for you was at best a 3 hour race. If the release was around 7-ish or 8-ish am then the massive heat should have been avoided by their arrival time. 

Again look at the transport people as to why they were so hungry and thirsty.
Hopefully all the birds were properly feathered for the race.

You lost some ? 400 mile birds so I have to assume you did not send "sprinters" to the race. If you have been releasing the birds from about the direction of their station and in no other direction then maybe their burned in memory foiled them when they should have been flying by instinct.

Please don't flame me for this. These are just my opinions at this time with the information available to me. 

I would not race a single bird until September, weather permitting. And then in your case not one I wanted to keep. The basket is a cruel mistress. But you still have to embrace her.

Take care and best of "luck".


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## Alamo

Here in West Virginia,it is very foggy...And we know here what fogg does...IT KILLS PIGEONS !!!.......Just think about it for a moment....Your a pigeon...NOT A HUMAN being...So you are a racing pigeon on the truck...One of maybe 400 or more....Your not hungry,you are thirsty..It`s hot on the truck....29 other pigeons are in the crate with you...They pour some water in a pan,but you can`t get to it...It`s 90 degrees at 7am in the truck...Boy am I thirsty...Oh wow,they are letting us out to fly home...Wee !! Just great !! I`ll get a drink when I get home....Oh,!! what`s this stuff we are flying into...I can`t hardly see the pigeons 25 feet ahead of me...Wuff....I just hit something,and my wing is broken....I`m falling to the ground...OH !! I hit the dirt real hard....I can hardly stand up...I hope there are no hawks around here...And if I see a cat coming,I`ll have a heart attack...All these problems just because some humans let us out to fly home into FOGG.....I will never see my loft mates again....What a terrible day....All because some humans don`t know that WE pigeons can`t fly into fogg without killing ourselves.....Alamo


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## MaryOfExeter

There are some screwed up people in your combine. NO one has any business racing this time of year. Young or old birds, doesn't matter. It's too hot and humid down here. That is ridiculous. Pigeons need water every 90 minutes when it is over 92 degrees (according to a vet in South Africa). I would not do that to the birds.


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## drifter

I think the prettiest pigeon contest is sort of a joke. You can't see enough of the pigeon to tell if it's pretty, about all you can tell about the pigeon is what color it is.

This is not meant to be criticism of flapdoodle because I know he does not have time to put each pigeon in a show cage and take it's picture. Just my two cents.


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## Josepe

That's a Bummer for sure Walt.I can only imagine how you feel.Sounds to me that you have some decision making people in your club that's more after the glory of winning than the well being of the birds.A shame for sure.


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## Josepe

What's the vote on the race Tom?


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## conditionfreak

rpalmer: I fully understand your thoughts and reasoning. But I would like to respond to a couple of your points.

First, the biggie: For a one hundred mile race, most (if not all) will send the birds hungry. A "normal" one hundred mile race actually should be a walk in the park for a healthy and well trained pigeon. My birds were healthy and well trained (or so I thought).

I actually don't send my birds hungry though, like many do. I feed them a portion of brown rice, which helps retain water. I do this for every race up to three hundred miles, during a "normal" weather race day. There may be better ways, but that is what I do. Of course, the birds need to get water before they can retain water.

These old birds were released at 6:55 am and the young birds one half hour later. Although the liberator stated that it was overcast and not foggy at the time of release (which I don't doubt at all), the weather man stated that there was fog in most areas between the liberation site and our home city. It was not foggy at my home but my home is a much higher elevation. I know for sure that fog can and does "hang" for long periods of time at the Ohio river, which all but two flyers birds had to cross. Two flyers are in Kentucky, but ironically, the fellow that only had one young bird of 40 return, is the short flyer and his birds did not have to cross the Ohio river. Ironically again, this same flyer with a return of only one of forty YB's, and very few of his old birds, is most likely the winner of the old bird race as he got one lone old bird at 9:45 am (from the 6:55 release). He did not get another bird for several hours. We still do not have the official results yet though.

I DO have issues with the liberator. But they do not relate to the weather upon release. I can not speak about the water situation, as I am not there upon release. On shipping night, he is always given our concerns about making sure the birds get water before being released. I can only assume that it is taken care of. But a little more time for them do so so, might need to be brought up. I don't know that they would be fighting their way in the dark of early morning, to get a drink or two. I also have issues with packing the amount of birds we now have to in the trailer, due to flying old and young together. It is a tightly packed trailer. Because it was built for racing one or the other, in two different seasons. It was built to hold 1200 birds and I don't think we came close to that, but I don't know. But even if we didn't, it was packed with a lot more birds than would normally be put in it, if we were still racing two seasons. We are trying this single season thing out, mostoly due to the costs of gasoline for training. But the shipping prices went up dramatically, due to fuel costs and hotel costs which we did not have last year. This year, in the long races, the young birds will be released on Saturday (for the 300's and 350), and the old birds will be taken further and released on Sunday. So, I haven't seen any change in the costs to me. It actually seems to be higher. I don't take my young birds a short distance and then carry on to a further distance with the old birds, in training. I do them separately. Until they both are ready for the same training distances.

It is a learning process for us with this new "thing".

I don't know if I mentioned it or not, but my neighbor reported to me that of his two earliest home birds, one had moss on its feet and the other had mud on its feet (he does not use the electronic clocking method. He does it the old fashion way with counter marks). Unusual for a 100 mile race I think. Both of my birds feet were clear.

I believe on long races birds almost always stop for water somewhere along the way. Even landing on top of water and floating for a few seconds while they drink. Just because they do not have mud on their feet does not mean that they didn't stop for a drink. Especially in hot weather.

None of us in the club got any birds home today, from Saturdays race. Although I did find a Cardinal in my loft, trying to find the door out (he couldn't find the trap apparently). I caught it and put it out, but not before it tried its best to hurt me with a bite. 

As to the "prettiest bird contest". My bird won it last year and it truly means absolutely nothing. But at least I won something.  Whomever wins it, enjoy it!

But this ain't about "pretty" This is about "racing". About "survival". Make no mistake.


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## Timber

conditionfreak said:


> This is about "racing". About "survival". Make no mistake.


Im sorry to hear of your losses thus far and can only hope that a few more return. But as you clearly have stated (which I agree 100%) above, its still hard to swallow with the lack of returns....


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## Flapdoodle

I sorted the list based on when they appeared in the video. 

For the prettiest bird, 19 had the most votes followed by a three way tie for second 20,67,61.

Congrats jpsnapdy. Also congrats goes out to Hawk_hunter (20), g0ldenb0y55 (67), jAxTech (61).

The votes for average speed was all over place. Lots of birds got one vote, four birds were voted for twice: four way tie 8, 24, 59, 15.

As far as our races, we need to keep it with the club and combine (I guess I get to be club race secretary for YB). We did get a proposal to the combine to increase shipping back to 20 per race. Not sure if that will pass. At the club level we are going to add a C race with the club race results printed out. I think we are allowed a few special races that we can send to the AU database. I might ship all our birds in the C race a few of the weeks so they are all competing together. 

We have five and half weeks until the first race, August 27th. Birds are doing well. A few short tosses. I will work on getting some more video together and start jumping them up he road. 

Hope all is well with everyone.


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## g0ldenb0y55

Congrats jpsnapdy and congrats to the other runner ups!


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## jpsnapdy

Thank you guys for the congrats, after being chosen prettiest, hope she wins bestest in everything else now!

Walt, I really want you to know I feel sorry for those losses. But like someone else already said, those day birds are really good, don't keep them at home.


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## jpsnapdy

conditionfreak said:


> As to the "prettiest bird contest". My bird won it last year and it truly means absolutely nothing. But at least I won something.  Whomever wins it, enjoy it!
> 
> But this ain't about "pretty" This is about "racing". About "survival". Make no mistake.


Hi there Walt.
Pity I can't even enjoy it, not having bred the bird myself, the honor goes to *the breeder*! Also congrats to Hawk_hunter (20), g0ldenb0y55 (67), jAxTech (61).
I do wish the losses will not be too high in this 2011 PT race season.
Of course, this time I will feel more for my own two selected birds. *Good Luck to all !*


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## rpalmer

jpsnapdy said:


> Hi there Walt.
> Pity I can't even enjoy it, not having bred the bird myself, the honor goes to *the breeder*! Also congrats to Hawk_hunter (20), g0ldenb0y55 (67), jAxTech (61).
> I do wish the losses will not be too high in this 2011 PT race season.
> Of course, this time I will feel more for my own two selected birds. *Good Luck to all !*


Why not give props to the breeder by listing his/her name???


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## SmithFamilyLoft

hillfamilyloft said:


> I think what it comes down to is when selfishness of the individual dictates the club things go wrong. Yes we elect the president, but it still does not mean he/she is not selfish.* I think the AU should set some ground rules that would keep more clubs together.* ie. Bird limits. Say max 30. Direction: each club must specify 2 to 4 race courses that are feasible for old and young bird. Alternate through them each year. These two issues seem to break more clubs up than any other. Our club usually figures this out the week before racing starts and looses a few fliers. Our club toyed with the idea of combining seasons, let us know how that works. *The AU could here dictate* a racing window for old and young birds. Whats best for the birds not the fliers. Warmer climates should not be racing in July or August nor Idaho in Dec. If the IF and AU want to retain members they might want to rule more. I hate too much government, but when the people are having difficulty running things right, government needs a bit more power.


 If the AU or the IF attempt to dictate too much, then our club will simply stop sending in our dues and become an "Independent" club. We don't need some governing body thousands of miles away to dictate how we run things here in Pennsyvania. If anyone does not like their club or combine, then drop out and form a new club with the rules you like, start your own combine as well for that matter. If you have a better idea then the club or combine you start will run better. What does the governing body be it the AU or IF know about running a local pigeon club anyway ?

I have toyed with the idea of a club or combine, where it is a complete dictatorship. You join, you pay the fees, you ship according to rules and guidelines. If you don't like the rules, then quit. The club would be run by the owners of the club. They own all the assets, they set the rules. The operation would be run like any other privately owned enterprize. The custormers in this case, would be the folks who show up to race pigeons. Wait a second...that is what we have now !


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## re lee

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> If the AU or the IF attempt to dictate too much, then our club will simply stop sending in our dues and become an "Independent" club. We don't need some governing body thousands of miles away to dictate how we run things here in Pennsyvania. If anyone does not like their club or combine, then drop out and form a new club with the rules you like, start your own combine as well for that matter. If you have a better idea then the club or combine you start will run better. What does the governing body be it the AU or IF know about running a local pigeon club anyway ?
> 
> I have toyed with the idea of a club or combine, where it is a complete dictatorship. You join, you pay the fees, you ship according to rules and guidelines. If you don't like the rules, then quit. The club would be run by the owners of the club. They own all the assets, they set the rules. The operation would be run like any other privately owned enterprize. The custormers in this case, would be the folks who show up to race pigeons. Wait a second...that is what we have now !


What i have /had noticed about several clubs. Was the MEMBERS. In the racing world seems everyone wants to win And many are poor losers. So they complain. Then either leave the sport or make a new club. And then waht both clubs SUFFER. It is a hobby to enjoy learn and smile when you win and smile when you do not. Getting along enjoying the club and visting the members lofts BUT agin some just hate losing and they rock the boat. All clubs have to have by laws and a certion amount of profession.A person that does well can teach others if those others are willing to learn and Take the time to climb there own mountion. But Some people think its the leaders fault when its really there own.


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## PigeonVilla

re lee said:


> What i have /had noticed about several clubs. Was the MEMBERS. In the racing world seems everyone wants to win And many are poor losers. So they complain. Then either leave the sport or make a new club. And then waht both clubs SUFFER. It is a hobby to enjoy learn and smile when you win and smile when you do not. Getting along enjoying the club and visting the members lofts BUT agin some just hate losing and they rock the boat. All clubs have to have by laws and a certion amount of profession.A person that does well can teach others if those others are willing to learn and Take the time to climb there own mountion. But Some people think its the leaders fault when its really there own.


 What I have learned is that it only take one bad seed to spoil it for others so maybe some clubs just need to weed their way through the crab grass to get something good to grow .Why should everyone suffer because of one or two bad seeds in the mix ?


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## re lee

PigeonVilla said:


> What I have learned is that it only take one bad seed to spoil it for others so maybe some clubs just need to weed their way through the crab grass to get something good to grow .Why should everyone suffer because of one or two bad seeds in the mix ?


True But really I was in pigeons for many years And race people seemed to whine more then most others. And it because excuses sound better to some then excepting not winning And learning. Clubs used to pull together and teach and learn and have a freindship with the members Not as much today. Some you only see at meetings and some only in race season. I have seen clubs started because people lost and then drug members with them And both clubs suffered. Poawer is numbers VOTES change leaders if members feel the need. But often members reap the benifits and the few do the work. BUT those few do not complain they just enjoy the club and give there support. But this thread is for the pigeon talk race and I will leave it at that


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## JaxRacingLofts

Congratulations jpsnapdy! I actually voted for your other bird. (#59) 

Also Congrats to my friends Huy and Henry good job and very nice birds you guys entered..I still think #59 is going to be tough to beat for avg speed but I trust my entries to make the winner of this race series earn it.


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## jpsnapdy

rpalmer said:


> Why not give props to the breeder by listing his/her name???


Yes, but that is upto the breeder himself and flap/Tom. I hope they'll agree at least after the races are over.
By the way, my name is Jean-Pierre Spielmann.


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## jpsnapdy

JaxRacingLofts said:


> Congratulations jpsnapdy! I actually voted for your other bird. (#59)
> 
> Also Congrats to my friends Huy and Henry good job and very nice birds you guys entered..I still think #59 is going to be tough to beat for avg speed but I trust my entries to make the winner of this race series earn it.


Thank you Chris, 
Good luck to you.


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## hillfamilyloft

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> If the AU or the IF attempt to dictate too much, then our club will simply stop sending in our dues and become an "Independent" club. We don't need some governing body thousands of miles away to dictate how we run things here in Pennsyvania. If anyone does not like their club or combine, then drop out and form a new club with the rules you like, start your own combine as well for that matter. If you have a better idea then the club or combine you start will run better. What does the governing body be it the AU or IF know about running a local pigeon club anyway ?
> 
> I have toyed with the idea of a club or combine, where it is a complete dictatorship. You join, you pay the fees, you ship according to rules and guidelines. If you don't like the rules, then quit. The club would be run by the owners of the club. They own all the assets, they set the rules. The operation would be run like any other privately owned enterprize. The custormers in this case, would be the folks who show up to race pigeons. Wait a second...that is what we have now !


What I have seen and this is my observations and opinions is that the guy with the crappiest birds tries to manipulate the club for his benefit the most. The guy with the best birds wins under any system they throw at him. Instead of getting better birds he tries different directions, different club limits, different clubs. Or better yet start his own club. Warren I am not a Liberal or do I have the Conservative views you have. I choose to be Independent. On some issues I agree with less governing on others I agree with more. The AU has some very good race rules that limit ways individuals can cheat or manipulate the races. 
My point here is to identify the issues that split clubs up and try and find fixes. If it involves less or more governing for the fix than so be it. The dictator that is set in stone to always be the long end and have that advantage so his race record looks better is not serving the club but himself. Solution, alternating racer courses. Would not a 30 bird upper limit or max trailer capacity divided by fliers as a lower limit set in stone get rid of this argument at club meeting? Warren sometimes I feel you are set in your ways to the point of being a dictator. Not unlike most of the members in my club. Must be the old timer coming out in you. Ha Ha We have two stubborn fliers in our club. Both wine the most about these issues. Both have manipulated the issues also. Neither win very often. Time to get a system for the majority and better birds. One even started his own club with no bird limits. It has three members. He won 1 our 8 races old birds. What does that tell you. I feel better winning races against a full trailer and as many racers as possible. Some like beating up the school wimp, but it feels much better knocking out the world champ.


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## hillfamilyloft

Your privately owned enterprise idea may not be all bad. Keep in mind that customers have the last say and if the issues that brought the need for a privately run club do not get addressed you will not have any members. My thoughts are issues like bird limits and directions will be addressed to attract the most members and not simply the idea of the owner. Much like one loft races. If you want members you need to make it attractive to them. If you start manipulating or changing things mid game you will not have customers for long.


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## hillfamilyloft

I am hearing a lot of talk about prettiest birds and what looks like it is going to win. Where is the trash talking and razzing. The white bird basing, the white flights have no chance. Chocolate vs Vanilla, Warren you should have raced this year. Maybe we should have a contest in which bird we think does not stand a chance. And by the way what is the side bet? Saw the challenge a few posts back.


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## hillfamilyloft

This is starting to sound like a dog show, not a pigeon race.


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## A_Smith

hillfamilyloft said:


> I am hearing a lot of talk about prettiest birds and what looks like it is going to win. Where is the trash talking and razzing.


My bird that is still in the loft has some sattenete in it's bloodline.  I can't wait to see it place high on the race reports.


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## SmithFamilyLoft

PigeonVilla said:


> What I have learned is that it only take one bad seed to spoil it for others so maybe some clubs just need to weed their way through the crab grass to get something good to grow .Why should everyone suffer because of one or two bad seeds in the mix ?


 I don't know.....many clubs choose to suffer, we chose not to. It's not rocket science, get rid of those problem children who are always causing grief. Simply throw them out. Simple as pie. Many would rather moan and complain, my partner and I grabbed the bull by the horns, and threw the jerks out. Now we all enjoy each others company, and we enjoy our club. But then, we went the private club route, by invitation only.


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## SmithFamilyLoft

hillfamilyloft said:


> I am hearing a lot of talk about prettiest birds and what looks like it is going to win. Where* is the trash talking *and razzing. The white bird basing, the white flights have no chance. Chocolate vs Vanilla, Warren you should have raced this year. Maybe we should have a contest in which bird we think does not stand a chance. And by the way what is the side bet? Saw the challenge a few posts back.


Most likely cause you don't have any real pigeons fliers sending in birds this year, if ya did, then the smack would have been a flowing !! I hav'nt seen a single "My bird is better then your bird" kind of jive. Could be a church social with a bunch of sweet little old ladies here, and not some kind of live, winner take all, kind of smack down event !!


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## Crazy Pete

winner take all, kind of smack down event 

Take all of what, no $ in the mix unless you pm some one and make a little side bet.
And the worst part is the man to beat thought the race was below him and didn't even send a bird
Dave


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## Xueoo

Crazy Pete said:


> winner take all, kind of smack down event
> 
> Take all of what, no $ in the mix unless you pm some one and make a little side bet.
> And the worst part is the man to beat thought the race was below him and didn't even send a bird
> Dave


The man to beat got a care last year . If not for mob flying, the man to beat would be out mid season . Typical of them kind . The birds this year should be much better, except mine, who grew up in the projects and survived on mice droppings.


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## Crazy Pete

Xueoo you do a good job of playing down your bird, In the final race, witch in a one loft race would be for the money, didn't you and air baby beat Warren?
Dave


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## Xueoo

My bird sucked towards the end of the season. Warren's beat mine. I don't think either of ours clocked. I have an excuse though...I don't race. My birds are simple "flying" pigeons. Warren, on the other hand, has no reason for letting a "flying" pigeon scare him into pulling out if this years race.


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## hillfamilyloft

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Most likely cause you don't have any real pigeons fliers sending in birds this year, if ya did, then the smack would have been a flowing !! I hav'nt seen a single "My bird is better then your bird" kind of jive. Could be a church social with a bunch of sweet little old ladies here, and not some kind of live, winner take all, kind of smack down event !!


I knew I could get Warren to talk smack, even if he was not in the race.


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## g0ldenb0y55

What's wrong with dog shows?....

I've actually have gotten several PM's because people think my birds look pretty nice. Look out for #33 and #67 to top the charts in performance too!


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## hillfamilyloft

hillfamilyloft said:


> 45 for looks (those blacks have the looks and not just color)
> 31 for Average Speed (no reason, if we could pick winners by looks this sport would be easy) (the bird seemed strong)


Little do I know #31 is AWOL or MIA. Looked feisty in the hand. Must mean nervous and wants out. Oh well. 

For those who want Warren in the race Josepe's LL1006 #43 is half Warren blood. It is a big bird. Fitting for Warren's bloodline. Ha Ha. The Dam is the biggest bird in my loft, cocks and hens included.


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## ace in the hole

hillfamilyloft said:


> Little do I know #31 is AWOL or MIA. Looked feisty in the hand. Must mean nervous and wants out. Oh well.
> 
> For those who want Warren in the race Josepe's LL1006 #43 is half Warren blood. It is a big bird. Fitting for Warren's bloodline. Ha Ha. The Dam is the biggest bird in my loft, cocks and hens included.


Maybe we can get Warren to give us more info on this hen that will be comming back to my loft this fall. Her father is IF 03 York 919. I do know you recieved this bird back from Ken about a year ago. He is a son of "Duke of Earl" and "Late Rode's"

Randy, do you see who her mother is? IF 03 York 705 is also IF 04 York 836's mother.


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## Josepe

Yes remember the numbers LL1006 and LL1003.You'll see one or the other again when it's over,at the Top of the sheet.


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

Xueoo said:


> My bird sucked towards the end of the season. *Warren's beat mine*. I don't think either of ours clocked. I have an excuse though...I don't race. My birds are simple "flying" pigeons. Warren, on the other hand, has no reason for letting a "flying" pigeon scare him into pulling out if this years race.



Me Too !!

Don't feel bad, in my local club .....90% of the time, on those rare occasions rolleyes when I lose a race, it's because someone beat me racing one
of those *Warren birds* !!!


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

hillfamilyloft said:


> Little do I know #31 is AWOL or MIA. Looked feisty in the hand. Must mean nervous and wants out. Oh well.
> 
> For those who want Warren in the race *Josepe's LL1006 #43 *is half Warren blood. It is a big bird. Fitting for Warren's bloodline. Ha Ha. The Dam is the biggest bird in my loft, cocks and hens included.



OMG !!! You mean there will be a gentic connection between the 2010 Winner and the 2011 WINNER ?! 

Unbelieveable !! What are the odds !!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGyMsv6qZY8&feature=related


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

ace in the hole said:


> Maybe we can get Warren to give us more info on this hen that will be comming back to my loft this fall. * Her father is IF 03 York 919.* I do know you recieved this bird back from Ken about a year ago. He is a son of "Duke of Earl" and "Late Rode's"
> 
> Randy, do you see who her mother is? IF 03 York 705 is also IF 04 York 836's mother.


 The sire to last year's 2010 Classic Winner is brother to IF 03 YORK 919.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> OMG !!! You mean there will be a gentic connection between the 2010 Winner and the 2011 WINNER ?!
> 
> Unbelieveable !! What are the odds !!!!!
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGyMsv6qZY8&feature=related


Would not disappoint me at all. The sire to the bird is Tiger a full Flor Engels bird. He has bred a bunch of good birds and grandsired many more. Four more of these are racing in ABQ. I think it will probably finish 6th right after the two I bred for me, Ace's two off his stock and Josepe's other bird. None of those are red like Warren's.


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

rpalmer said:


> Why not give props to the breeder by listing his/her name???


Did you send any birds to this event ?


----------



## Crazy Pete

Xueoo said:


> My bird sucked towards the end of the season. Warren's beat mine. I don't think either of ours clocked. I have an excuse though...I don't race. My birds are simple "flying" pigeons. Warren, on the other hand, has no reason for letting a "flying" pigeon scare him into pulling out if this years race.


I thought your bird was TRC 665


We only have three birds in as of 3:40, another tuff race.

1st Airbaby 31 (congrats)
2nd TRC 665
3rd SFL 241

Going into the race SFL was down 2 points, with a third place today he is right now our high point bird. There is only one bird that can catch him, JEDD 15253. If JEDD traps fourth he will be our high point bird.


Like I said SFL 241 would have won the points, In a real one loft race the money would have gone to first place.


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

*Little Smack for Ole Times Sake !*



Crazy Pete said:


> I thought your bird was TRC 665
> 
> 
> We only have three birds in as of 3:40, another tuff race.
> 
> 1st Airbaby 31 (congrats)
> 2nd TRC 665
> 3rd SFL 241
> 
> Going into the race SFL was down 2 points, with a third place today he is right now our high point bird. There is only one bird that can catch him, JEDD 15253. If JEDD traps fourth he will be our high point bird.
> 
> 
> *Like I said SFL 241 would have won the points, In a real one loft race the money would have gone to first place*.


In a real life One Loft Race, which the Pigeon Talk Classic is....there can be points, there can be average speed, there can be simply race position, or some combination.

The big money in One Loft events has typically been reserved for the most consistant bird. Tell ya what I will do, you come up with $10,000 and we will arrange a "do over" so you can get another crack at it. 

The facts are, when the tough got going, Silver Ice was at the head of the pack, and your birds were out MIA someplace with a BIG L hanging somewhere around their necks ! 
__________________


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Warren you are "Silver Ice", your bird is "Vanilla Ice". I made funny.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

I like it that a few have been throwing some peds around, this bird off that etc. We should have a pretty pedigree contest. See if the big bird hype has any merit to it. Anyone else have any Warren Smith Blood?


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

hillfamilyloft said:


> Warren you are "Silver Ice", your bird is "Vanilla Ice". I made funny.


Gee...those voices in my head kept yelling Silver Ice, I guess it was Vanilla Ice !!  Actually, I almost called her Nilla wafers...but the wife nixed that idea.


----------



## Xueoo

Mine was the jedds bird. It was either leading in points or tied with flaps going into the last race, but it sucked. Still, not too bad for a flying pigeon.


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

I wonder when the road training will commence. I'm excited to see the videos for that!


----------



## Crazy Pete

I shouldn't talk smack about last year, I didn't send birds. This year we'll just have to see.
Dave


----------



## Josepe

"I wonder when the road training will commence. I'm excited to see the videos for that"

I sure hope we get timely updates.Wonder if Flap got the loading shute done?


----------



## conditionfreak

Yea, it's easy to talk smack when not in the competition. It's like the Cincinnati Bengals talking smack because they won a couple of times, many years ago.

There will be a new champion and the old champion will be....well.....old. More or less forgotten about.

You see. When you win and retire, you lose some of the glory. When you win and defend, you sometimes lose. But at least you didn't grab the trophy and run.

I didn't win. I can't talk smack (yet). But what I can say is that I stepped up to the plate and swung the bat.

I didn't become a manager after winning one series. Today, I am a player.

(how's that for talking smack without actually having anything to talk smack about. except that my entry last year, tied in the 300 miler but trapped two seconds behind "nilla wafer", and he won the prettiest bird contest) 

Beauty and ability. Like my wifey.


----------



## conditionfreak

Here is the trapping order of last years PT Classic 300 mile race. The only one that really matters (that's my story and I'm sticking to it) 

241 (Warrens wifes bird, "Vanilla Ice" aka "Silver Ice" aka "Nilla Wafers") (reigning PT Classic Champion) (Warren's wife sent three birds and two got lost early) (they must have been too fast for the course and didn't have good brakes) 

100 (my bird, that also was voted "prettiest bird", landed on the board in a tie with "Vanilla Ice", but "Ice" trapped a couple of seconds sooner)  (I sent two birds and one got lost early) (my entry this year is also #100 and is the child of last years #100 x with a bird that scored higher in last years PT Classic competition)

33
44
325
331
31
18800 (a "feral" with motzy)
321
15253
47
1408
313
305
1409
301
317
303

Feel free to post your own comments on this list.

Last years PT Classic competition had a total of 31 birds entered in it. After the last race, there were ten birds still "standing" (left). It is a tough course out there where Flapdoodle flies. I believe it is mountains and deserts. All of the below birds (those that "endured") deserve to be mentioned again.

Here are the survivors from last year: 

AU 2010 AIRBABY 31
IF 2010 TRC 665
AU 2010 SFL 241
IF 2010 TRC 45
AU 2010 AUB 325
IF 2010 TRC 47
AU 2010 AIRBABY 33
AU 2010 JEDDS 15253
AU 2010 COV 100
AU 2010 I 18800


Which birds will fall by the wayside this year? Many already have, including one of mine.


----------



## Thunderbird Racing

all I can say is VITA-KING 785 AND VITA-KING 789 are this years top birds....yeah that's it!!


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

conditionfreak said:


> Here is the trapping order of last years PT Classic 300 mile race. The only one that really matters (that's my story and I'm sticking to it)
> 
> 241 (Warrens wifes bird, "Vanilla Ice" aka "Silver Ice" aka "Nilla Wafers") (reigning PT Classic Champion) (Warren's wife sent three birds and two got lost early) (they must have been too fast for the course and didn't have good brakes)
> 
> 100 (my bird, that also was voted "prettiest bird", landed on the board in a tie with "Vanilla Ice", but "Ice" trapped a couple of seconds sooner)  (I sent two birds and one got lost early) (my entry this year is also #100 and is the child of last years #100 x with a bird that scored higher in last years PT Classic competition)
> 
> 33
> 44
> 325
> 331
> 31
> 18800 (a "feral" with motzy)
> 321
> 15253
> 47
> 1408
> 313
> 305
> 1409
> 301
> 317
> 303
> 
> Feel free to post your own comments on this list.
> 
> Last years PT Classic competition had a total of 31 birds entered in it. After the last race, there were ten birds still "standing" (left). It is a tough course out there where Flapdoodle flies. I believe it is mountains and deserts. All of the below birds (those that "endured") deserve to be mentioned again.
> 
> Here are the survivors from last year:
> 
> AU 2010 AIRBABY 31
> IF 2010 TRC 665
> AU 2010 SFL 241
> IF 2010 TRC 45
> AU 2010 AUB 325
> IF 2010 TRC 47
> AU 2010 AIRBABY 33
> AU 2010 JEDDS 15253
> AU 2010 COV 100
> AU 2010 I 18800
> 
> 
> Which birds will fall by the wayside this year? Many already have, including one of mine.


Wait a second, you mean to tell me in the 300 mile event there were birds on the drop ?!

All the ones which finished the last race should get another round of applause !!


----------



## Crazy Pete

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> In a real life One Loft Race, which the Pigeon Talk Classic is....there can be points, there can be average speed, there can be simply race position, or some combination.
> 
> The big money in One Loft events has typically been reserved for the most consistant bird. Tell ya what I will do, you come up with $10,000 and we will arrange a "do over" so you can get another crack at it.
> 
> The facts are, when the tough got going, Silver Ice was at the head of the pack, and your birds were out MIA someplace with a BIG L hanging somewhere around their necks !
> __________________


I'm not going to bet 10 k on the out come of a free race. but you send a teem to Sun City next year and we can make a wager on who does the best on the final race.
Dave


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

Crazy Pete said:


> I'm not going to bet 10 k on the out come of a free race. but you send a teem to Sun City next year and we can make a wager on who does the best on the final race.
> Dave


No, you misunderstand. I mean we all send the birds back to the Pigeon Classic and we do an OB series. The reason for the $10,000 is to help cover shipping for everyone, and I need to go get her back since she does not live at SFL anymore. I could have sent her to the Sun City race, but then I would not have won the PT Classic. Plus, we might have to build a special loft for them, etc.


----------



## Crazy Pete

Well I can't afford to do both races next year, so I will have to stick with the Sun City race. 
Dave


----------



## conditionfreak

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Wait a second, you mean to tell me in the 300 mile event there were birds on the drop ?!
> 
> All the ones which finished the last race should get another round of applause !!


I don't remember if it was in the thread of that event, or if Flapdoodle sent me a PM. But he said that there were indeed two birds on the drop. Your 241 and my 100.

He also said that your bird looked exhausted, so it went in to drink and rest, while mine just walked around the landing board waiting for hens. 




(I made that last sentence up)


----------



## MaryOfExeter

I feel like tooting my horn and pointing out that two of those 10 survivors were mine 
And number 47's sibling will be bringing the pain again this year! Only much more intense this time 
I'd give just about anything to have 45 back though. His dad was my favorite cockbird and was the first one I found dead that the dog killed. Outside of the loft. That sucked really bad.

Holy cow I just realized 46 (45's nestmate) is in the OB loft. He was my first bird home on the only YB race I participated in last year. Somehow it didn't hit me until now. Both of those birds are also siblings of my very first race winner, 08 TRC 40. Maybe the 40's are lucky numbers for me, LOL.


----------



## conditionfreak

They won't be for long though. Wait until you are in your forties. 

Because next comes the fifties. 



P.S. I did notice your two entries survived. Consistant homing pigeons. Kudos to them and you.


----------



## blongboy

no update yet?


----------



## Josepe

No updates yet.In Tom's last post Jul 20 he said he'd start jumping them up the road.What is it 3-4 wks til race time?


----------



## kbraden

Flap posted first race is Aug 27th. I HOPE that they are being trained is why we haven't heard anything. I have birds in races in other states that began training a month ago, and their first races are end of Aug too! 
Although some videos would be nice, I would rather that time be spent training the birds properly.


----------



## ace in the hole

A lot of people don't start road training until 4 or 5 weeks before their first race. All we need to do is sit back and let Tom do his thing. Trust him, he will do us all right.


----------



## Crazy Pete

While we were all puting our birds together for the breeding season, all relitively easy work. Good ole Tom was taking apart a loft, setting a foundation, and rebuilding a loft. All the while being a family man, a lot of hard work. I'm sure Tom is doing what needs to be done for the birds. He will be posting vids soon enough, did I forget he has a job.
Dave


----------



## Xueoo

No need to train hard for these easier short races. Don't know about the rest of you guys, but mine can fly 150 miles with 8-10 hours on the wing. As long as the birds are loft flying good, they will be ok with only a couple short tosses. The more tosses...the more losses.


----------



## NayNay

I just hope he is gracious enough to host "The 3rd Annual PT Classic", cuz I want in on this action! Too fun.


----------



## Big T

NayNay said:


> I just hope he is gracious enough to host "The 3rd Annual PT Classic", cuz I want in on this action! Too fun.


If he is smart, next year will be for the kids. Time for conditionfreak to step up to the plate and take over. But if Flap, conditionfreak, or someone else does it, I'm in with my pretty whites.

Tony


----------



## Josepe

I believe he has to get this one behind him first.


----------



## kbraden

Big T said:


> If he is smart, next year will be for the kids. Time for conditionfreak to step up to the plate and take over. But if Flap, conditionfreak, or someone else does it, I'm in with my pretty whites.
> 
> Tony


I agree, I think it would be cool to host them in a different states every year, kind of test their abilities with different weather conditions, altitudes, etc...


----------



## rackerman

*I'd love to see conditonfreak take over next year, that be cool to have it in Ohio!!! Come on Walt, what you think??*


Big T said:


> If he is smart, next year will be for the kids. Time for conditionfreak to step up to the plate and take over. But if Flap, conditionfreak, or someone else does it, I'm in with my pretty whites.
> 
> Tony


----------



## NayNay

Rotating the race seems both fair and fun. Plus- as previously stated, it challenges the birds in more environments.


----------



## conditionfreak

Appreciate the confidence in me, but as many of you know. I am in a flux with my Combine. We race old and young on the same days and race starting July 16th. It has been hot as heck so far, and losses have been great. It's okay when the birds get home from the short races on time. But if they are late, they are flying in 80+% humitidy and 100+ temps. 

There will be a discussion and voting after this season is over in September, with my combine members. I won't know until after that, if I am racing young birds in the fall or during the summer.

Plus, the birds are one month younger than they normally would be, when racing starts in mid July. That does make a difference.

So....I just don't know what is happening next year. If the voting goes against my wishes (I like racing old birds in the spring and young birds in the fall), I may move to a different Combine. Maybe Circleville/Columbus. We already lost one member because of this new schedule and two more I know of are threatening to leave.

Plenty of time though. We still have to get through 2011 without cursing each other.


----------



## Crazy Pete

Page 78 post 1162 has the LIST... The last 16 birds have no numbers with them whats up?
Dave


----------



## kbraden

Crazy Pete said:


> Page 78 post 1162 has the LIST... The last 16 birds have no numbers with them whats up?
> Dave


Those were the dead or missing birds.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Are the birds in a certain order?


----------



## Crazy Pete

I think they are in the order of the video he put out.
Dave


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

Anybody hear word about how the birds are doing other than what's on this thread? Maybe somebody here has talked to Tom over the phone? 

I hate to be the one to ask but but I feel we're kinda left in the dark here and I know no one wants to offend by not asking but I'm gonna ask anyway. 

Will there be any more video updates prior to the first race? 

Have the birds been up the road at all yet and which potential birds look like they're going to make the first cut? I think it was mentioned that the limit is 15-20 per flyer in your club? 

I think we just need to hear from you Tom. 

Please don't take this the wrong way.


----------



## conditionfreak

Typically, Tom will put up a few videos of the birds being released in the early morning huors, on training tosses. He will probably post one or two of the brids arriving from a training toss.

That is the way it went last year.


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

Yeah, I remember that very clearly and that was awesome!


----------



## Josepe

gOlenbOy,
I agree with you for sure.I don't think you can blame anyone for wanting to know What's Going On.How about ya Tom??


----------



## Flapdoodle

Josepe said:


> gOlenbOy,
> I agree with you for sure.I don't think you can blame anyone for wanting to know What's Going On.How about ya Tom??


You can blame me. 

The birds are going to go to boreal ski resort Saturday. That is up about the highest point in the mountains. The following week we will toss from trukee and then boomtown. Both of those tosses the birds will have to go up an over the mountains to get home. The birds are looking good. Flying twice a day either both loft or a toss in the AM and loft fly pm. 

I will work on the video. If I could go back I would not of done it this again. I guess I am just lowering the bar for walt or whoever steps up to keep this going next year. 

First race is the 27. Limit will be 15 birds per race. The first race all the birds will go together in the unlimited club "c" race. After that we will split the group into the regular a and b combine races. The club race will have results posted with AU.


----------



## rackerman

*Thanks for the update Tom. Were looking forward to the vids. Glad to hear the birds look good too!!
I hope Walt or someone does the race next year. I would like to see Walt do it.....
Thanks again!*


Flapdoodle said:


> You can blame me.
> 
> The birds are going to go to boreal ski resort Saturday. That is up about the highest point in the mountains. The following week we will toss from trukee and then boomtown. Both of those tosses the birds will have to go up an over the mountains to get home. The birds are looking good. Flying twice a day either both loft or a toss in the AM and loft fly pm.
> 
> I will work on the video. If I could go back I would not of done it this again. I guess I am just lowering the bar for walt or whoever steps up to keep this going next year.
> 
> First race is the 27. Limit will be 15 birds per race. The first race all the birds will go together in the unlimited club "c" race. After that we will split the group into the regular a and b combine races. The club race will have results posted with AU.


----------



## Josepe

Thanks Tom.


----------



## PigeonVilla

I think its obvious that Tom has a lot of chit to deal with right now so just be patient and be glad that he has taken this upon himself and is keeping up with the part of trying to get these birds to the race track and then let the rest follow and see what transpires . Poor guy just gives and gives and gets nothing in return, so why not just let him get er done ,havent you ever heard of the saying life gets in the way ??? At least he hasnt abandoned his post and is still trying to fufill his end of a thankless deal ? Tom you sure are the man and I think if you ran for president I just might even vote for you lol


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Just wondering if the list is up to date  When training starts, a lot can happen.


----------



## conditionfreak

Becky, do you have a boyfriend in the Marine Corps?


----------



## SouthTown Racers

PigeonVilla said:


> I think its obvious that Tom has a lot of chit to deal with right now so just be patient and be glad that he has taken this upon himself and is keeping up with the part of trying to get these birds to the race track and then let the rest follow and see what transpires . Poor guy just gives and gives and gets nothing in return, so why not just let him get er done ,havent you ever heard of the saying life gets in the way ??? At least he hasnt abandoned his post and is still trying to fufill his end of a thankless deal ? Tom you sure are the man and I think if you ran for president I just might even vote for you lol


I agree 100%!! Im sure Tom will give us reports when there is something to report!!


----------



## Ashby Loft

Even with the issues, this is fun to follow. I wish I had some birds in. I look forward to the next one... assuming someone puts it on.


----------



## Matt Bell

Its obvious some people dont get it and I feel bad for Tom having to deal with the headache. From following the forum we know several of the participants dont even race their own birds but want Tom to treat this like a million dollar event. Get some experience.handling and racing.your own birds then you would understand the work involved, but no you want to complain about videos and post updates. Be glad your birds are with a good handler and have a chance to race as opposed to sitting. But now you have complained so much that Tom now regrets even doing this. Shame on you all.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

conditionfreak said:


> Becky, do you have a boyfriend in the Marine Corps?


 Yes..well, he's on his way. He's at PI right now. He'll graduate Sept. 23 


Also, wanted to thank Tom because I forgot to in my last post, haha. But really, I don't expect a whole lot of updates cause I know I'd be too busy as well if it were me.


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

Thanks Tom for the update! Yeah, you did spoil everyone last year but don't beat yourself up for it because we know you're doing your best! I wouldn't dare to take on a task like this. My comment wasn't to start any arguments. I just wanted an update and I felt it was fair to ask. For everyone who's gotten their panties all twisted up for me asking, quit fooling yourselves because I know you check this thread for updates as often as I do.

I bet everyone is happy to know now that Tom will be road training and posting a video soon, right? LOL


----------



## Southwing

Funny!!!! its like one of those soap shows that my wife watches. Anyway, 

Thanks TOM


----------



## Matt Bell

they have already been tossed some obviously, you dont just start.tgem at the top of the mountain...and he said fly twice a day toss and loft...how far down the road are your birds?


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

Matt Bell said:


> they have already been tossed some obviously, you dont just start.tgem at the top of the mountain...and he said fly twice a day toss and loft...how far down the road are your birds?


Lol, you know this and I know this because.....Tom gave us an update.... And this isn't about my birds here it's about my birds at Tom's. Quit making a big deal out of nothing. I just asked for an update when no one else seemed to be asking. I even stated my comment wasn't to try to offend anyone because I knew that Tom has been having a tough year.

Moving on!


----------



## hillfamilyloft

For all you concerned about training I want to tell you a story. When I was 12 I had a small team of 24 birds. I loft flew them every morning. Two weeks before the race I decided I better train them out. The old timers said it was too late and I should not race at all because I would loose all my birds if I took them 80 miles to the first drop. I talked my dad into not playing golf on saturday and helping me with the birds. We took them out 3 miles two weeks before the race. The next week we took them 30 miles 45 degrees off line. That was it two training tosses. As for results. My birds won the 1st two races outright beating juniors and seniors. Sometimes I think you can wear your birds out training them 3 times a week. If they are loft flying a couple hours a day and get out to 60 miles a couple of times, they should be fine. If I did the race you would get 1, 3, 5, 10, 20, 40, 60 mile training tosses with 80 being the first race. Especially with 60 birds. That is a bunch of birds to load up every morning. I would start 4 weeks before the first race.


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

conditionfreak said:


> Tom asked to do this. He was not drafted. It basically was all his idea in the first place. It was obvious that he regretted it long before anyone asked for updates or videos. But he is a good man and is fulfilling his chosen obligation, as he should. Even if he doesn't want too anymore. When you ask for or agree to take on a task, you are obligated to finish it. To the best of your ability. At least that is how I was raised.
> 
> Saying "shame on you all" is inappropriate. "you all" includes "all". Only a very few are "bugging him a little". No one has attacked him or chastised him. What the heck do you expect when you send living things that you raised at your home, off to someone for them to care for? Of course participants are concerned, interested and excited. Especially those who do not race pigeons often.
> 
> If birds were at a one loft race elsewhere, participants would be up at arms if there were few or no updates. I see that happen sometimes. Just because this is a more or less, free event. It does not lesson the excitement and concerns some here have about those little living flying machines we raised at our homes and sent off to do "battle".
> 
> Let's all just be patient and see how it plays out. Plenty of time later for debate and discussion on how this event could be improved.
> 
> It is a big undertaking for anyone, and I forsee this event in the future having difficulties continuing. Even if I held it next year. What after? Who after? We shall see. Look at it as if this is the last one and try to enjoy it for what it is. It's going to be fun in a month or so, I think.
> 
> )


I'm guilty of bugging him a little bit!  There I said it... If you don't open your mouth you wont get fed, right? In this case everyone got fed!


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

hillfamilyloft said:


> For all you concerned about training I want to tell you a story. When I was 12 I had a small team of 24 birds. I loft flew them every morning. Two weeks before the race I decided I better train them out. The old timers said it was too late and I should not race at all because I would loose all my birds if I took them 80 miles to the first drop. I talked my dad into not playing golf on saturday and helping me with the birds. We took them out 3 miles two weeks before the race. The next week we took them 30 miles 45 degrees off line. That was it two training tosses. As for results. My birds won the 1st two races outright beating juniors and seniors. Sometimes I think you can wear your birds out training them 3 times a week. If they are loft flying a couple hours a day and get out to 60 miles a couple of times, they should be fine. If I did the race you would get 1, 3, 5, 10, 20, 40, 60 mile training tosses with 80 being the first race. Especially with 60 birds. That is a bunch of birds to load up every morning. I would start 4 weeks before the first race.


That's an awesome story. You must have been so happy beating everyone as a kid! 

For the birds at Tom's I trust what ever program he has in store for them. I wouldn't have sent birds if I didn't feel this way about how he handles and cares for his birds.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

How do you guys get your birds loft flying for a couple hours in this heat?


----------



## First To Hatch

MaryOfExeter said:


> How do you guys get your birds loft flying for a couple hours in this heat?


Mine just do.


----------



## Big T

MaryOfExeter said:


> Just wondering if the list is up to date  When training starts, a lot can happen.


Alright Becky. Please tell me you are not dating a Marine. They are Bad and this sailor would know. My oldest daughter married one and he took her away to San Deigo, then North Carolina. But I will get my revenge... he is the father to the cutest granddaughter. Thank God she looks like her mother.

LOL Tony

PS Tom your doing fine, keep up the good work.


----------



## Alamo

Becky,YB`s will fly for 1 1/2 hrs or more if they are NOT being road trained...Once you start training,the FUN of flying for 2 hrs no longer exists....The most they want to loft fly is 1 hr at a time....I also noticed when I had 40/45 yb`s many years ago,they flew for 2 1/2 hrs or more...With teams of 20/25 birds,they only fly 1 to 1 1/2 hrs.....I beleive the answer is,they are happy to get out of a loft with not enough perches....All they do is fight for a perch....With 40 perches,and 20 birds,they are very CONTENT & HAPPY to be inside the loft...They want to feel safe,and not fight all day long for their perch...I do beleive it makes them race better,when they LOVE their loft....I try my best to have them calm and tame..When I feed them,I can touch them,pet them,pull their tails gently,and in general,play with them for 10 minutes twice a day.....Very rewarding for me,to say the least.....Alamo


----------



## MaryOfExeter

My birds do fly a lot when it's cooler, but it's been in the 100's. Then again, when it was cooler, it was earlier in the year and they were younger. I also hadn't started training yet. Makes sense.

And yes Tony, I am, LOL. Just a recruit for now  I know he's a good one. He's been mine a lot longer than he's been the USMC's. I'm just a little nervous they may change him _too_ much. Hopefully nothing but good change.


----------



## West

MaryOfExeter said:


> My birds do fly a lot when it's cooler, but it's been in the 100's. Then again, when it was cooler, it was earlier in the year and they were younger. I also hadn't started training yet. Makes sense.
> 
> And yes Tony, I am, LOL. Just a recruit for now  I know he's a good one. He's been mine a lot longer than he's been the USMC's. I'm just a little nervous they may change him _too_ much. Hopefully nothing but good change.


After his training you will learn a lot about him. If he's able to separate his job from personal life you know he'll be a good one. I've seen quite a few go down the brainwashed route though. Jarheads.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> I'm guilty of bugging him a little bit!  There I said it... If you don't open your mouth you wont get fed, right? In this case everyone got fed!


Either that or someone sticks a sock in it.


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

hillfamilyloft said:


> Either that or someone sticks a sock in it.


Took you a while to come up with that one....

So no one is allowed to ask about how things are going with this race? Give me a break.....

It ain't gonna stop me from asking about my birds and updates!


----------



## rackerman

*g0ldenb0y, there is nothing wrong with asking for updates. I get curious myself at times, but wait for someone else to ask.... I know alot of us are curious and there is nothing wrong with asking. This is going alot different than last year. I am already thinking about who will do it next year. I hope it's Walt....*


g0ldenb0y55 said:


> Took you a while to come up with that one....
> 
> So no one is allowed to ask about how things are going with this race? Give me a break.....
> 
> It ain't gonna stop me from asking about my birds and updates!


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

rackerman said:


> *g0ldenb0y, there is nothing wrong with asking for updates. I get curious myself at times, but wait for someone else to ask.... I know alot of us are curious and there is nothing wrong with asking. This is going alot different than last year. I am already thinking about who will do it next year. I hope it's Walt....*


Thanks, I wasn't asking for Tom to send me his life savings, I was only curious about how the birds are doing with their training but for some reason people got butt hurt over me asking....it seemed like Tom was okay with me asking....he didn't stick a sock in my mouth for asking!


----------



## Crazy Pete

After all the work Tom put into this years race I think he is to burnt out to make vid and updates. He needs a vacation, a tropical island with no birds and no work.
Dave


----------



## West

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> Took you a while to come up with that one....
> 
> So no one is allowed to ask about how things are going with this race? Give me a break.....
> 
> It ain't gonna stop me from asking about my birds and updates!


Do you race birds at home? Some of us are so busy training our birds among other things that we aren't as desperate for information. We trust Tom is doing a good job.


----------



## Matt Bell

I hope goldenboy hosts the race next year...I will send birds if that happens!


----------



## kbraden

Well, I don't give a rats a$$ who is offended on here. I think Tom does have a full platter to deal with, and his time is limited. I personally could care less about videos, (although it would be nice, don't get me wrong) they are too time consuming for someone with limited time in the first place. I'm sure he spent hours doing a video of each bird, plus editing, for the pretty bird video, but still some had to [email protected] that the shots weren't long enough to vote. 
Personally, I would like to see more time put into flying, training, and racing than playing with a video recorder. 
Yes, I would like to see more updates, especially an updated LIST to see who is still with us & who is not. But sometimes when people get busy, they space things off and the only way to find out is to ask!


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

West said:


> Do you race birds at home? Some of us are so busy training our birds among other things that we aren't as desperate for information. We trust Tom is doing a good job.


I have the same daily grind as you and maybe more and I never said I didn't trust Tom to do a good job in fact I trust him enough that I sent birds this year!  



Matt Bell said:


> I hope goldenboy hosts the race next year...I will send birds if that happens!


You're a joke man! Do even have birds in this race? 



kbraden said:


> Well, I don't give a rats a$$ who is offended on here. I think Tom does have a full platter to deal with, and his time is limited. I personally could care less about videos, (although it would be nice, don't get me wrong) they are too time consuming for someone with limited time in the first place. I'm sure he spent hours doing a video of each bird, plus editing, for the pretty bird video, but still some had to [email protected] that the shots weren't long enough to vote.
> Personally, I would like to see more time put into flying, training, and racing than playing with a video recorder.
> Yes, I would like to see more updates, especially an updated LIST to see who is still with us & who is not. But sometimes when people get busy, they space things off and the only way to find out is to ask!


I agree!


----------



## West

You never answered my question but alright. Maybe more of a daily grind is a big maybe, I won't go into why. I've just noticed a correlation with people who don't race and the amount of updates they want Tom to provide.


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

The request for updates have been minimal because we know how this year has been for Tom. I asked a simple question and got a simple answer from Tom. But I got a lot this other crap in between which had dragged on. lol 

And for your correlation about people who don't race, you might be opening up a can of worms because I know of a few who don't race that take better care of their birds than I do (nicer lofts, better feed, medicine, supplements, etc.), and I do race sometimes. 

I apologize to Tom for all this. If you read my first post about an update on page 83, I was not out to offend anyone. 

Moving on...


----------



## Josepe

I don't see where you need to apologize for asking for an update. I think you stepped up and asked whenever everyone else was afraid to.I was going to ask myself when you beat me to it,so I asked second.No I don't race myself yet,but just got voted into the Interstate Racing Pigeon Combine(Cumberland Md Club)and will be racing in the future for sure.And I didn't send any birds to the race. Randy sent two for me,which I consider mine, and would like to know sometimes how the training's going and how the birds are doing,which I think is only natural for most of us,other than the political correct ones on here.I also have two(actually one now,one's MIA)in the race that I sent for another member.Lookiing forward to the next update now when the time comes .Good luck to all!


----------



## Matt Bell

Nope I didn't send birds to the event, but I do know a little something about running/organizing one loft events as I helped with one when I was in high school. Its not too hard to feed and clean as you stated some do exceptional jobs without ever racing, which leads credence to the theory that those whom have never raced expect more. As for more of a daily grind...nope not even close to mine and I would put my yearly salary on it, but I enjoy my profession and hobbies which allow me to continue the grind as you put it.


----------



## SouthTown Racers

Just for fun.....

These are the parents of my bird #53


----------



## SouthTown Racers

Parents of #55


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Beautiful!


----------



## Josepe

Real Nice.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

g0ldenb0y55 said:


> Took you a while to come up with that one....
> 
> So no one is allowed to ask about how things are going with this race? Give me a break.....
> 
> It ain't gonna stop me from asking about my birds and updates!


That was just a joke. I think over the years of not flying my own birds and relying on others to fly and train them, I have just learned to roll with the punches. This year I am flying 94 birds with 8 different fliers. Flap is one of the better trainers and I expect he will have the birds ready. I would much rather him spend the time with the birds then telling me how they are doing. I know everyone is excited. Come race day I will be right up there. This California course is by far the most difficult with the mountains, weather, and predators.


----------



## First To Hatch

Lovely looking birds Southtown!


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

hillfamilyloft said:


> That was just a joke. I think over the years of not flying my own birds and relying on others to fly and train them, I have just learned to roll with the punches. This year I am flying 94 birds with 8 different fliers. Flap is one of the better trainers and I expect he will have the birds ready. I would much rather him spend the time with the birds then telling me how they are doing. I know everyone is excited. Come race day I will be right up there. This California course is by far the most difficult with the mountains, weather, and predators.


Sorry I took your comment the wrong way!


----------



## blongboy

My turn 

AU CV 2010 00631 cock bird








IF SLI 2008 121 hen bird


----------



## MaryOfExeter

My turn!

GFTG 115's parents:

Deuce








Pippy (short for Pippy Longstockings!)









GTFG 116's parents:

Achiles








https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-...AAAAAEgA/-pc9IHdK1kg/s640/6-28-11%2520052.jpg

Scion


----------



## blongboy

MaryOfExeter said:


> My turn!
> 
> GFTG 115's parents:
> 
> Deuce
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pippy (short for Pippy Longstockings!)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GTFG 116's parents:
> 
> Achiles
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-...AAAAAEgA/-pc9IHdK1kg/s640/6-28-11%2520052.jpg
> 
> Scion


super nice blue check pair


----------



## SouthTown Racers

HOLY COW!!!
By the looks of these birds.....Ide say we have a race!!


----------



## blongboy

SouthTown Racers said:


> HOLY COW!!!
> By the looks of these birds.....Ide say we have a race!!


o yes ..this year would be good!


----------



## SouthTown Racers

Here is where the magic happens!!


----------



## Gnuretiree

I guess I'll be starting following the weather conditions in California on the Weather Channel along with the local weather now. Two weeks until our first race here and I am way behind on training. I have hawk problems. I am considering skipping YB's racing.


----------



## kbraden

I'll play...

Hen, cock & babies sent to PT race


----------



## PigeonVilla

kbraden said:


> I'll play...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hen, cock & babies sent to PT race


 That red check on top perch looks mighty powerful, hope it does well when all is said and done .


----------



## kbraden

crossing my fingers that the RC takes mostly after its mother


----------



## PigeonVilla

kbraden said:


> crossing my fingers that the RC takes mostly after its mother


Beautiful bird as are the others, but that one really do stand out . good Luck!


----------



## Thunderbird Racing

kbraden said:


> I'll play...
> 
> Hen, cock & babies sent to PT race


isn't this a sex linked mating? where the red check being a cock and the blue check being a hen?


----------



## kbraden

the red check is the hen & blue check is a cock.


----------



## Thunderbird Racing

kbraden said:


> the red check is the hen & blue check is a cock.


OK I'm confused, are you talking about the yb or breeders? I was talking about the YBs.


----------



## kbraden

LOL I was talking about breeders, really not sure "exactly" what sex the Yb are. But in past breedings, the reds have been both hens & cocks, same for BC. Had one round where both yb were red, and another round where both were blue.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

A red hen and a blue cock is a sex-linked mating. All sons will be red and all daughters will be blue.


----------



## kbraden

MaryOfExeter said:


> A red hen and a blue cock is a sex-linked mating. All sons will be red and all daughters will be blue.


Oddly enough, I have had blue check cocks from this pair plus red hens.

Hey Becky, What are the probabilites with the egg shapes? I have read that the rounder eggs are hens & the longer oval shaped are cocks. I keep wanting to verify when I have eggs, but always forget. Is it true or just more of a myth?


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Well then that means you had some hanky panky going on! Because otherwise it isn't genetically possible 

Honestly, I think the egg shape thing is a myth. As well as certain sexes hatch first, etc. The only one I think may have some merit to it is that temperatures may make a difference on the sex. Mostly reptiles but some species of birds do too. But all the chickens I hatch from under my pigeons turn out to be roosters. And I assume chickens and pigeons do not put out the exact same temp or humidity (although close enough to where my birds can hatch out chicks dependably).


----------



## kbraden

All past yb are at different lofts, I am going off of what I have been told. I have kept only one red offspring, and it is indeed a cock bird. Very interesting info! 

So there is truth to the color mating chart  

Thanks for the other info too!


----------



## NayNay

MaryOfExeter said:


> A red hen and a blue cock is a sex-linked mating. All sons will be red and all daughters will be blue.


Becky I am so glad you have this stuff all figured out and are kind enough to share your knowledge. I used to be a lot smarter-lol- but now info falls right out of my brain if I don't write it down. I'll be writing this one down since I have some nice reds now. 2 are a mated pair of reds- I am guessing all red for the youngsters then? Or is this one of those deals where one of them could be carrying blue (um, the cock...?) and I could get blue babies- which I would then know are hens?


----------



## MaryOfExeter

NayNay said:


> Becky I am so glad you have this stuff all figured out and are kind enough to share your knowledge. I used to be a lot smarter-lol- but now info falls right out of my brain if I don't write it down. I'll be writing this one down since I have some nice reds now. *2 are a mated pair of reds- I am guessing all red for the youngsters then? Or is this one of those deals where one of them could be carrying blue (um, the cock...?) and I could get blue babies- which I would then know are hens? *


You are right!  If the cockbird has blue or black flecks, then he's carrying blue and it will be passed down to the kids. That means some of the sons will be carrier of blue while the others will be pure ash-red (which will make them look like hens as they won't have any flecks). Half of the hens will be blue and the rest ash-red.
But of course if your red pairs aren't carrying anything else, then you'll get all reds  Which kind of sucks because those flecks sure are a good way to tell the gender of squeakers!


----------



## NayNay

MaryOfExeter said:


> You are right!  If the cockbird has blue or black flecks, then he's carrying blue and it will be passed down to the kids. That means some of the sons will be carrier of blue while the others will be pure ash-red (which will make them look like hens as they won't have any flecks). Half of the hens will be blue and the rest ash-red.
> But of course if your red pairs aren't carrying anything else, then you'll get all reds  Which kind of sucks because those flecks sure are a good way to tell the gender of squeakers!


He's the one on the right- I don't see any blue or black, but I do think his eye markings are quite handsome.  . These 2 are some of the birds given to me by Birdkeeper (Marvin) when he and Derrick206 came up to visit and set me up with some breeders. So, I could just ask Marvin what the YB from this pair have been in the past....or wait and see-lol. But I like the idea of sex linked colors- kinda handy.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

They're pretty!


----------



## NayNay

Thanks- look even nicer in person. I am pretty fond of them. She laid one batch of eggs on the floor underneath this thingamagig that I have since removed. He made her a really nice nest to. :-( . But, after a week or so, they were at it again, and are making another nest, so hopefully I'll get some peeps outta them- and one other pair to go with the ones that should be hatching this week......


----------



## kbraden

Well, our birds were to be released from Boreal Ski Resort this weekend, which is 7200' altitude at the base and about 40 miles from Tom's place. Wonder if everyone made it back or not?


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

Lots of nice looking breeders!


----------



## JaxRacingLofts

kbraden said:


> Well, our birds were to be released from Boreal Ski Resort this weekend, which is 7200' altitude at the base and about 40 miles from Tom's place. Wonder if everyone made it back or not?


I can see why Tom would regret doing the PT Classic with his clubs new shipping limits. 15 for the A and 15 for the B race and the rest in the the C.

Thats kind of disappointing but I hope he trains hard and lets the best rise to the contest. To me thats whats cool about a one loft race all our birds housed and feed the same under the management of the same trainer.

I think Tom's club is scared of the awesome birds he has had shipped in from across the country and they put the shipping limits in place in a feeble attempt to minimize in his victory. 

With their club races coming up soon our birds should be sorting themselves out by now for best candidates for the A, B or C races. I'm certain nobody in his combine is even going to come close to beat him. Good Luck Tom..Train Hard!


----------



## Gnuretiree

JaxRacingLofts said:


> I can see why Tom would regret doing the PT Classic with his clubs new shipping limits. 15 for the A and 15 for the B race and the rest in the the C.
> 
> Thats kind of disappointing but I hope he trains hard and lets the best rise to the contest. To me thats whats cool about a one loft race all our birds housed and feed the same under the management of the same trainer.
> 
> I think Tom's club is scared of the awesome birds he has had shipped in from across the country and they put the shipping limits in place in a feeble attempt to minimize in his victory.
> 
> With their club races coming up soon our birds should be sorting themselves out by now for best candidates for the A, B or C races. I'm certain nobody in his combine is even going to come close to beat him. Good Luck Tom..Train Hard!


While I never stopped to consider the impact that sending all these birds to one loft might have upon the local club, I see your point. I hope you are right about the quality of the birds we've all sent. However, from the sounds of the course to be flown, I suspect that the local people have developed birds to deal with those conditions and may even have an advantage. I guess that is why we have to fly it. Good luck to all the entries.


----------



## Crazy Pete

JaxRacingLofts said:


> I can see why Tom would regret doing the PT Classic with his clubs new shipping limits. 15 for the A and 15 for the B race and the rest in the the C.
> 
> Thats kind of disappointing but I hope he trains hard and lets the best rise to the contest. To me thats whats cool about a one loft race all our birds housed and feed the same under the management of the same trainer.
> 
> I think Tom's club is scared of the awesome birds he has had shipped in from across the country and they put the shipping limits in place in a feeble attempt to minimize in his victory.
> 
> With their club races coming up soon our birds should be sorting themselves out by now for best candidates for the A, B or C races. I'm certain nobody in his combine is even going to come close to beat him. Good Luck Tom..Train Hard!


I don't think shiping limits has much to do with it. Last winter Tom spent all his free time takeing apart a loft 10 mi away from home, hauling it home, and then the rest of his free time puting it back togeather. Thats a lot of work " thanks Tom " plus training for a race, or iron man contest?
Then every body wants updates, I guess sleep is over rated. For the last race he spent an afternoon turning an old goat shed into a loft, That was easy. This year has bean one heck of a comitment.
I think we should all get togeather and send him a gift certificate to a nice resturante as a thank you. JMO


----------



## ace in the hole

Crazy Pete said:


> I don't think shiping limits has much to do with it. Last winter Tom spent all his free time takeing apart a loft 10 mi away from home, hauling it home, and then the rest of his free time puting it back togeather. Thats a lot of work " thanks Tom " plus training for a race, or iron man contest?
> Then every body wants updates, I guess sleep is over rated. For the last race he spent an afternoon turning an old goat shed into a loft, That was easy. This year has bean one heck of a comitment.
> *I think we should all get togeather and send him a gift certificate to a nice resturante as a thank you. *JMO



*Ok, who wants to take on this collection?*


----------



## Crazy Pete

Hey all I have is the idea, First we have to find a place and the coast, plus tip. Who is good with a PC and can find all this? 45 or so people sent birds so the $ amount wont be that much each. Let here some more ideas.
Dave



Were not talking about Burger King, I want a nice place.


----------



## kbraden

Crazy Pete said:


> Then every body wants updates, I guess sleep is over rated.


Not to step on anyone's toes, but I feel an update more frequently than every 20 days would be nice. Been a while since the inventory list was updated, we don't even know if all the birds are still there or not. I know he has a busy schedule, but it only takes a few moments to post a few sentences to update people. I don't think that is asking too much.

As for the shipping with the club, it was the same limits as last year.


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

ace in the hole said:


> *Ok, who wants to take on this collection?*


 That's the problem with this kind of "free" event, everyone wants hand holding, but are clueless as to all the work involved. I always know when someone is clueless as to the work involved, when they think a $100 perch fee is "a lot of money", but then they want more service then many of the $125 perch fee One Loft events will ever deliver. Unless some kind of reasonable expectation and fee is charged right at the start, then everyone will want Gold Standard service at no cost. 

Tom, thank you for your kindness and hard work. Hopefully this event can mature enough to the point where you can be compensated for all the work which is being asked of you. If you ask me, everyone involved to the extent of having birds in this event, should be sending you a gift card, but hey, that is me.


----------



## Crazy Pete

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> That's the problem with this kind of "free" event, everyone wants hand holding, but are clueless as to all the work involved. I always know when someone is clueless as to the work involved, when they think a $100 perch fee is "a lot of money", but then they want more service then many of the $125 perch fee One Loft events will ever deliver. Unless some kind of reasonable expectation and fee is charged right at the start, then everyone will want Gold Standard service at no cost.
> 
> Tom, thank you for your kindness and hard work. Hopefully this event can mature enough to the point where you can be compensated for all the work which is being asked of you. If you ask me, everyone involved to the extent of having birds in this event, should be sending you a gift card, but hey, that is me.




I like the way you think and since you flew last yr for free are you going to pitch in for this yr?
Dave


----------



## Josepe

I believe this is a Two Way venture isn't it? We get our birds tested in a race and Tom has 69 birds to fly in his club and combine races.Some of yous need to go back and read Tom's first post on this thread:

"I want to win Champion loft"

"I have 0 birds"

"This will save me a ton of time and money and work asociated with having breeders"

"I want to do this"

So I believe we've did our part and sent the birds.

Yes some of Tom's problems were understandable.He now regrets taking it on,but once it's over he never has to do it again.And yes Most people who send birds accross country to compete in a race would like updates to how the birds are doing and what birds are still left,even if it's just training tosses.So to those of yous who don't care how your birds are doing so be it.


----------



## Crazy Pete

Josepe said:


> I believe this is a Two Way venture isn't it? We get our birds tested in a race and Tom has 69 birds to fly in his club and combine races.Some of yous need to go back and read Tom's first post on this thread:
> 
> "I want to win Champion loft"
> 
> "I have 0 birds"
> 
> "This will save me a ton of time and money and work asociated with having breeders"
> 
> "I want to do this"
> 
> So I believe we've did our part and sent the birds.
> 
> Yes some of Tom's problems were understandable.He now regrets taking it on,but once it's over he never has to do it again.And yes Most people who send birds accross country to compete in a race would like updates to how the birds are doing and what birds are still left,even if it's just training tosses.So to those of yous who don't care how your birds are doing so be it.


So I take it you are opposed to sending a few bucks so tom can have a night out for all the work he has done.
Dave


----------



## Flapdoodle

No gift cards please, but thanks for the gesture. I know you want updates and some of you are frustrated about it. I would be a little frustrated as well if things were flipped. 

The birds are doing well. Today was our first toss with another loft. It was short, about 50 miles. We had most the birds trap in about ten minutes apart. We had eight of his birds come over with ours. He had two a red check and a white (mine AUB 444) head home to his loft. The red check didn't land and trapped over at my loft 15 minutes or so after the others. The white landed on his landing board and he went and caught it. He drove it over towards my place and let it go. He said it went and landed in a tree. I have not checked yet to see if it is in the loft. 

We will toss again with him Thursday.


----------



## kbraden

Can we get an updated inventory list, or are all the birds with you and no recent losses? Thank you!


----------



## Flapdoodle

kbraden said:


> Can we get an updated inventory list, or are all the birds with you and no recent losses? Thank you!


I will work on an updated inventory, rough count is 65 birds. I need to get power to the loft so I can use the clock. 

Here is a quick video. This is the only toss the birds get multiple times. It is about 38 miles. It is with the phone so not real clear. The birds beat me home from this toss. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEbcphgYK3g


----------



## kbraden

Much appreciated Tom!


----------



## Josepe

Pete,
Keep the wager when my birds beat yours and put it towards a gift card in my name.Hope that wasn't your RC that headed towards the wrong loft.That may dampen your chances come race time
And I think Tom would've had to do the same work if he would've raised and trained his own birds to race this season.But like he said we saved him a ton of time and money and work.And I'm sure Tom will use that loft he disassembled and reasembled long after this PT race is over.You and some of the other Pigeon Police need to quit making it look like this whole thing is for Our benefit only.


----------



## kbraden

LOL, I am hoping it wasn't my RC that got side tracked! I'll be tattooing a map on his beak!


----------



## Crazy Pete

When your birds beat mine, your funny. I'll bet you even made your self laugh when you said that.
That could have bean my rc, a little 50 mi toss he just needed a little more fly time. 
Pigeon Police eh, I'll quit when you quit hounding Tom for info. I trust my birds to be there.
Dave


----------



## Matt Bell

Josepe, you may want to check up on last years race thread to truly understand the dynamics at work here. Dare I say it but from the results previously posted Toms birds gave him a better shot at champion loft than the pigeon talk birds do. Saved him work? Not really, there would be no pretty bird contest, no training videos, and probably no loft inventories until after the season was completed if he were flying his own birds. About the only good I see is he got to skip the breeding season and spend with his family, but I don' possibly know that even that makes this headache worth it.


----------



## Crazy Pete

but I don' possibly know that even that makes this headache worth it.
Well sure it makes it worth it, didn't I read where he is going to be a dady again. We wanted more kids and only had 1, so the way I see it that is worth every thing.
Dave


----------



## West

I think bringing in a variety of birds is bigger disadvantage in club races than anything. Not only are these birds from different climates but they also have very different immune systems. In one loft races the birds are only competing against those birds within the loft under the same management. In club races you are competing against other fliers who typically have well established families that aren't exposed to the same stresses at an early age that one loft YB's are.


----------



## Josepe

No Petey I didn't make myself laugh when I said that.I trust my birds to be there also( and ahead for yours 
Oh I don't consider it hounding asking for updates every few weeks.I believe the rest of you sit and wonder how your birds are doing also but are just afraid to ask.Afraid it may hurt your image maybe.
Nothing wrong with a bird needing a lilttle extra flying time I guess.Hey looking foward to that next upate!


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Race results are the only updates that really count. Birds out to 50 he is almost there. Get them to 100 with wing time every day, they will be ready. Thanks Tom for the hard work.


----------



## Xueoo

Thank's Tom for all the hard work. Race hasn't started yet and some are already weeded out, hehe. 

I say hold back on the tosses. Short tosses of 20 miles is fine. It's hot and I'm sure the birds are molting some. These early races the guys flying a "system" are going to win anyways.


----------



## JaxRacingLofts

West said:


> I think bringing in a variety of birds is bigger disadvantage in club races than anything. Not only are these birds from different climates but they also have very different immune systems. In one loft races the birds are only competing against those birds within the loft under the same management. In club races you are competing against other fliers who typically have well established families that aren't exposed to the same stresses at an early age that one loft YB's are.



I disagree but I'm going to take a "wait and see" attitude to wards this idea. My thinking is the PT Classic is bringing in different strains of birds that can excel in his high altitude race course. This one loft race could be like "hybrid vigor" for Toms loft. The fresh blood with all of all the varieties of birds sent in could be just what it takes to win against the seasoned pros. 




hillfamilyloft said:


> Race results are the only updates that really count. Birds out to 50 he is almost there. Get them to 100 with wing time every day, they will be ready. Thanks Tom for the hard work.


Agreed, I cant see what good their first 100 mile toss should be during a race. Keeping them close to home won't give them the experience they need. Let them stretch their wings and have fun...these ybs are like kids that need to get out and play. 



Xueoo said:


> Thank's Tom for all the hard work. Race hasn't started yet and some are already weeded out, hehe.
> 
> I say hold back on the tosses. Short tosses of 20 miles is fine. It's hot and I'm sure the birds are molting some. These early races the guys flying a "system" are going to win anyways.


I think I might need to get one of these "systems" next year. This season I'm going natural but next year I'm thinking the Light System is going to help me prepare for the molt better.


----------



## West

You realize this race happened last year so why didn't this "hybrid vigor" work that time? Tom put all the time and effort into making those birds succeed on the club and combine level.


----------



## conditionfreak

It is hard to make the case that the birds are the difference. Because the handler is a huge thing. Our same birds in the hands of a different handler, would surely produce different results than they did/do with Tom. That is pigeon racing.

That is why you can spend a lot of money buying birds from winners, and never win yourself. That is also why someone can buy birds for 5 bucks each at a flea market, and beat you with them.

The handler and location are two legs of a three legged stool. The third leg being the birds. Anyone who tells you differently, IMO, is just trying to sell you some birds. It is not JUST about the birds.

Oh, and throw some luck in there now and them Both good luck and bad luck. I believe that there has been many a race winner, not win the race because it was in a flock, just behind some birds racing home and when the first birds suddenly dodged a wire, those "potential winners" hit the wire and never made it home or struggled to get home. Sort of like if Secretariat had been tripped up by another horse falling in from of it in a race, causing Secretariat to fall over that other horse. Just bad luck for it and good luck for the bird/horse that actually wins, that only would have been second or third without that "potential winner" hitting a wire. A wire hidden from its view until it was too late to dodge.

Now I am sure that someone will come on here and tell us how they train in wirey areas, to breed pigeons that are better at dodging wires. 

(is "wirey" a legit word?) 

Speaking of "words". Anyone out there know the two words in the english language, that have a "w" for the only vowel in the word? The english language is supposed to have either an a, e, i, o, u or y in every word, as the vowel. But there are two that do not have any of those and instead use the letter "w" as a vowel.

YOU WILL LEARN SOMETHING TODAY. Whether you want to or not.


----------



## blongboy

when is the first race?


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

Crazy Pete said:


> but I don' possibly know that even that makes this headache worth it.
> Well sure it makes it worth it, didn't I read where he is going to be a dady again. We wanted more kids and only had 1, so the way I see it that is worth every thing.
> Dave


Dave, I like the way you think buddy!


----------



## MaryOfExeter

I like the fact that we are racing in the club. I want my birds to be tested as best as possible. Now not only are they racing against birds from all over the country, but they are also racing against everyone in the club and the combine. After all, here my birds have to race against different lofts with different methods, immune systems, etc. So this is testing for the kind of racing I'm doing. And what most of us are doing. I'm not scared cause I think my birds can handle it!


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

Flapdoodle said:


> I will work on an updated inventory, rough count is 65 birds. I need to get power to the loft so I can use the clock.
> 
> Here is a quick video. This is the only toss the birds get multiple times. It is about 38 miles. It is with the phone so not real clear. The birds beat me home from this toss.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEbcphgYK3g


Thanks for posting the video Tom! I'm excited to see who makes the first cut for the A and B teams.


----------



## conditionfreak

Did any all white birds make it through last years entire season with Tom? Were there any all black birds that made it through?

Just curious.


----------



## NayNay

Wow Tom/Flap- that is some gorgeous terrain you've got there! Nice video- even as "just" a phone video. (10 years ago if you would have told me we would be making and sending videos to the internet with our cell phones, I would have thought you were Ca-Razy!!)


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

conditionfreak said:


> Did any all white birds make it through last years entire season with Tom? Were there any all black birds that made it through?
> 
> Just curious.


 I could be wrong, but I thought most got lost off the landing board..... There was reportedly a "white" bird that kept up pretty well, bred by one of our friends in Florida, but when the bird was examined, it turned out to be more of a white grizzle, which means it was not really "white".


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

conditionfreak said:


> It is hard to make the case that the birds are the difference. Because the handler is a huge thing. Our same birds in the hands of a different handler, would surely produce different results than they did/do with Tom. That is pigeon racing.
> 
> That is why you can spend a lot of money buying birds from winners, and never win yourself. That is also why someone can buy birds for 5 bucks each at a flea market, and beat you with them.
> 
> The handler and location are two legs of a three legged stool. The third leg being the birds. Anyone who tells you differently, IMO, is just trying to sell you some birds. It is not JUST about the birds.
> 
> Oh, and throw some luck in there now and them Both good luck and bad luck. I believe that there has been many a race winner, not win the race because it was in a flock, just behind some birds racing home and when the first birds suddenly dodged a wire, those "potential winners" hit the wire and never made it home or struggled to get home. Sort of like if Secretariat had been tripped up by another horse falling in from of it in a race, causing Secretariat to fall over that other horse. Just bad luck for it and good luck for the bird/horse that actually wins, that only would have been second or third without that "potential winner" hitting a wire. A wire hidden from its view until it was too late to dodge.
> 
> *Now I am sure that someone will come on here and tell us how they train in wirey areas, to breed pigeons that are better at dodging wires. *
> 
> (is "wirey" a legit word?)
> 
> Speaking of "words". Anyone out there know the two words in the english language, that have a "w" for the only vowel in the word? The english language is supposed to have either an a, e, i, o, u or y in every word, as the vowel. But there are two that do not have any of those and instead use the letter "w" as a vowel.
> 
> YOU WILL LEARN SOMETHING TODAY. Whether you want to or not.


 Yes, I have been breeding a *line* of birds which will avoid wires. I was thinking of doing another of my famous videos to show you my training course.


----------



## NayNay

SmithFamilyLoft said:


> Yes, I have been breeding a *line* of birds which will avoid wires. I was thinking of doing another of my famous videos to show you my training course.


Well, what is interesting to newbie me about all of this is that I have the same inkling re breeding birds that have the tenacity and intelligence to avoid all that would prevent them from returning home- and am working on ways to test the birds for these traits even before they leave the loft. In other words, testing them for the characteristics needed to deal with and compensate for solar flares, hawks, wires, weather, etc etc- without having to send them on the Bataan Death March. Just a personal preference- that could lead to the basket not doing enough of my culling, but, I'll jump off of that bridge when I get to it. 

So, what are the 2 words that us "W" as a vowel? ( I am already wishing I didn't ask....)


----------



## conditionfreak

Ha Ha. It is not a joke. They are "cwm" (pronounced "kroom") and "crwth" (pronounced "krooth").

cwm   /kum/ Show Spelled[koom]
noun 
cirque ( def. 1 ) . 
Origin: 
1850–55; < Welsh: valley.
Sort of means "round like a plate".




crwth   [krooth]
noun Music. 
Origin: 
1830–40; < Welsh; cognate with Irish cruit harp, lyre 
It is a musical instrument.

You can look them up at dictionary.com. Both are also legal in playing scrabble.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

One of the whites survived with a broken wing and was sent back home here


----------



## NayNay

conditionfreak said:


> Ha Ha. It is not a joke. They are "cwm" (pronounced "kroom") and "crwth" (pronounced "krooth").
> 
> cwm   /kum/ Show Spelled[koom]
> noun
> cirque ( def. 1 ) .
> Origin:
> 1850–55; < Welsh: valley.
> Sort of means "round like a plate".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> crwth   [krooth]
> noun Music.
> Origin:
> 1830–40; < Welsh; cognate with Irish cruit harp, lyre
> It is a musical instrument.
> 
> You can look them up at dictionary.com. Both are also legal in playing scrabble.


Those whacky Welsh!


----------



## JaxRacingLofts

West said:


> You realize this race happened last year so why didn't this "hybrid vigor" work that time? Tom put all the time and effort into making those birds succeed on the club and combine level.


Thats because I did not send my birds last year. This year I believe Tom is going to Win Champion Loft...after all he has 2 of my birds to guide your birds home


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## PigeonVilla

This race will be a good one in the end Im sure but it definaitely will not be the same as any one loft race ,so next year some may want to actually join a club and race their own birds to see what it really cost to take on such an endevor for themselves and realize all the work,time and money that goes into for themselves .I will say it again Tom you rock and deserve a metal for taking this on and carrying it through to the end ,all good things wished your way . I am only speaking my mind so dont need any more pms to tell me why my opinions are wrong ,thanks.


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## Crazy Pete

No PM your opinion is right on, people that don't race do not have a clue. Club dues and fees to race, an eclock, not to mention gas. There is more I'm just stumped at the moment.
Dave


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## hillfamilyloft

JaxRacingLofts said:


> Agreed, I cant see what good their first 100 mile toss should be during a race. Keeping them close to home won't give them the experience they need. Let them stretch their wings and have fun...these ybs are like kids that need to get out and play.
> 
> There is two ways to look at it. Guys in our club send the birds 4 or 5 times from the first race station before the first race. That is 500 miles on the wing for a young bird before the first race. Then they send them from 70 mid week between each race. That is 70 x 7 or 490 miles. That is 1000 miles on the wing not in a race. Not counting the races and training. Good chance they will burn out their young birds. If you need the birds to break at the first race station, I would say it is important to ship them there a few times. If they are breaking in town I would think that the breaking point would be more important for multiple tosses. Also read plenty of stories about the 90 year old guy who loft flies his birds, doesn't train them out and wins the race. I think guys in the US over train many times. European lofts don't seem to train as often. They use things like diet, open lofts, etc to get their birds more time on the wing. Once again look at what the best racer in the club is doing and do that a little better than him.


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## Flapdoodle

Tossed with another loft again this morning. The birds were all tossed together but came home in three main groups a minute or so apart with half a dozen coming in ten minutes later. They probably flew home with the other lofts birds and then circled back. 

We had birds trap at 7:55 he was 7:58. Per this website: 

http://www.daftlogic.com/projects-google-maps-distance-calculator.htm it was a 54.02 miles to my loft and 53.26 to his. 

As it was a short toss it does not mean anything at this point. I am sure we have a dozen or so great birds that will do well despite the handler. 

We kind of had this discussion in last years thread. The main issue with this type of event (taking in two birds from forum members) is in my heart I want to get all the birds sent to that first race. In my head I know to be successful racing in the club and combine you need to remove/bench/or pull from the team birds that just are not cutting it. 

As far as the Competition. We are racing in my club against the 2nd place AU National Champion Loft in 2008 & 2009 (2010 is not on the AU site). He has all the birds in the loft by the second week in January. They are completely molted out and racing back on some form of widowhood. There is one other flyer that uses the same system. 

We do have a few lofts that have already tossed from the first race release point four or five times. A distance of about 120 miles. 

I am not throwing in the towel or anything. I just know that to win on a regular basis takes a lot of work starting months before the first race. Some cocky know it all can say he wants to win champion loft in the December but reality is that is not going to happen. I suspect we will be able to steal a few of the races. 

The over all concern for us here in the forum should be how your birds stack up against the other birds in the loft not necessarily in the combine.


----------



## conditionfreak

I agree that in the scenario of you taking in birds from all over the country, you are somewhat at a disavantage racing against those in your area who raise birds early, have birds bred for years in that area and use some of the "systems" available. You are basically racing to the perch. Some, I am sure, are racing their young birds to youngsters or eggs. Possibly using even more motivitational methods (is widowhood or double widowhood possible with young birds?).

Whatever the outcome. Whatever the fate of my bird/s. It is fun to participate in. It cost little and is national. What more could someone ask? Oh yea. I forgot. Prize money. Maybe next year I will donate some prize money, just to entice Warren to return.  Because you see. I really really really want to beat him. It would make my year.  I might have to follow him to another venue to do so, I guess. I have only ever entered one such one loft race event and it soured me. It was a "first timer" putting on a one loft event. He ended up losing 260 of the 266 birds entered. That pizzed me off so much that I have avoided entering any more. But maybe it is time to jump in.


----------



## conditionfreak

A weird thing happened to me yesterday. I had seven late hatch young birds that are not old enough to race this year. I am hoping to groom them for next years old bird races, so I took them out training yesterday. Along with a fellow flyer. We took our old birds and young bird race teams about fifty miles, to just tune them up for this Saturdays 300 and 200 mile races.

Anyway, we released the old birds and young bird racing teams from fifty, as I indictaed above. Then on the way back, I let out those late hatch young birds, at approximately 15 miles. They disappeared straight on course, almost immediately. Didn't even circle. I was happy about that. It was approximately 9 am when I released them.

The old birds and young birds released at fifty mile, beat us home. For the rest of the day, not one of the late hatchers released from 15 miles, came home. I was upset and confounded. It was a beautiful day. At 7 pm, we started our usual wednesday night poker game at my home. Had 9 players. (my wife was the winner and I have to live with that until next wedesday)  I last checked the loft at 6:55 pm and none of the late hatch birds were there.

Anyway, at 8:00 pm, I folded a hand and went out to give a quick check for my late hatch youngsters, and there they were. At that moment that I went out to check for them, all landed on the roof of my garage which abuts my lofts. They then trapped quickly. All seven had come together at 8 pm. After (assumingly) flying for 11 hours. They stayed together for that long and all came home at the same time. They were worn out. Unbelievable to me. I would bet money that a bunch of late hatches would not stay together for 11 hours and trap at the same time. I am confounded to explain it. They must have just been out playing, I guess. I admit they were not hungry when I released them.


Or, eating in a farm field for all of that time.


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## JaxRacingLofts

Flapdoodle said:


> I am not throwing in the towel or anything. I just know that to win on a regular basis takes a lot of work starting months before the first race. *Some cocky know it all can say he wants to win champion loft in the December but reality is that is not going to happen.* I suspect we will be able to steal a few of the races.


I will apologize if wanting you to succeed is putting undo pressure on you. No harm intended. Its also good to know that the birds are getting some cross training with another loft and are learning to break from the group.
Sounds to me like your on the right track and they will be ready for their first race. Either way this is a fun event see how our breeding competes against each other so lets keep it fun.


----------



## First To Hatch

Conditionfreak, I've learned that if their wings hang low that means that they were flying for 2+ hours.


----------



## ace in the hole

First To Hatch said:


> Conditionfreak, I've learned that if their wings hang low that means that they were flying for 2+ hours.


Or

1. They are not in good racing condition.

2. It is to hot out.

There are others but the point I wanted to make here is that not to many things in pigeon racing are that cut and dried (simple).


----------



## Xueoo

If you look at the young bird race results across the country, you'll notice a lot of the early birds come in groups. That is a result of birds flying on a system, I would think. The early races are especially this way. Once the 3rd-4th races get going, the better birds will start to rise from all lofts. I think this is what we can hope for with our birds.


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## conditionfreak

(Man, this site is slow since they added advertizing)

Yea, it is not so simple I think. I have birds come back from races that have flown five hours, that do not have drooping wings. Last weekends races, my yearling cocks came in decent time and as soon as they got into the loft, they drank, ate, and then started chasing hens around. Chasing hens within two minutes of having returned from the race. Their wings were not drooping at all.

I guess my point in the previous posting about my late hatches, was that they stayed together. Whatever they were doing. Swimming, eating, jolly flying. Whatever. They came home together, 11 hours after I released them. That, to me, is unbelievable. In condition or not. I should mention that these same birds have been trained out to forty miles a couple of times, and returned in good time.

This episode just boggles my mind. There are so many things about these little feathered creatures that I may never understand.


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## Flapdoodle

Anyone ever have a total flyaway? You toss the birds and not a single bird makes it back? Well neither have eye until today.... Simple toss 65 miles and not a single bird makes it back out of 64 birds!


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## Crazy Pete

They are probly just stretching there wings, they will be back.
Dave


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## conditionfreak

Happens every once in awhile.

If only one bird ever comes back, let's declare it the PT Classic winner. 

(psst: it is "I", not "eye". Silly mistake that just shows how upset you are about the birds).

Seriously, most if not all will return. They could have got mixed up with a large flock of someone else's and once they realize they are not at their home, they will turn around. Probably be home before dusk.


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## MaryOfExeter

I've had some pretty bad tosses but not that bad. I have however, sent my whole team (minus a few) to a race and got 5 back 
I'm sure they'll be back!  I agree, they probably got mixed up with someone else.


----------



## conditionfreak

Well, tomorrow is a 200 YB and 300 OB for my combine. The forcast is 60% chance of T-storms all the way. For tomorrows race. IMO, we should not be racing.

It is also going to have our Yearling Derby in the 300. I am running that. Collecting the entry information and the money. Making the payouts and I have donated a trophy. I have to participate. But I don't want to send birds with this forcast. Going to send them though, since I am running it. Going to send the max of three entries. Keeping everything else at home, including young birds.

We have three clubs in our combine. One club voted to not race tomorrow but since two did, so the race is on.

I had high hopes for one of my yearling cocks, #90676. Now I'm just hoping my three make it back alright. Wish them luck.


----------



## rackerman

*They will be back........*


Flapdoodle said:


> Anyone ever have a total flyaway? You toss the birds and not a single bird makes it back? Well neither have eye until today.... Simple toss 65 miles and not a single bird makes it back out of 64 birds!


----------



## Josepe

Flap,
You posted at 9:17 a.m. this morning,what time did you release the birds?


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## Flapdoodle

Video of the toss this morning. I also filmed some of the ride home t o give you an idea of what the birds are flying over or through. The camera focused on the filthy windshield and window a few times sorry about that. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S4Zce8x7n4

I think the birds must of been hit by a hawk or falcon. We will never know. They came home in small groups, just a few at a time. The first two birds home came together from the west, completely wrong direction. The second group ten minutes behind those came from the NE from where you would expect them. Then singles or groups of two or three started coming from every which direction for about half an hour. When I left we had 53 birds of the 64 released. 

I think they were probably hit by a raptor and then scattered every which direction. Maybe they flew for a while then realized they are going the wrong way. Several different canyons coming down the hill if the follow the North Fork of the American River south of 80 it dumps them off south of here and they have to circle back like the first two birds. If they make it down north of 80 (my reason for multiple Blue Canyon tosses) they come out of the canyon east of the loft right in line. Again just my guess... Will never know what happened or where the flew. 

I forgot the video was in the camera:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5WVPlpeUUw


----------



## drifter

Hmmmm......If it was a high K-factor day we would have an explanation wouldn't we.


----------



## Josepe

Never mind,you aleady posted again.


----------



## Flapdoodle

Josepe said:


> Flap,
> You posted at 9:17 a.m. this morning,what time did you release the birds?


10:17 was my post, it has something to do with the time setting on my account. I released the birds at 6:35. I expected the birds to make it back I was just being a jerk and trying to worry you guys. When I left for work we were still out a dozen or so birds.


----------



## Josepe

Was just thinking the birds had all day to get back,but you already posted they were coming in.Beautiful release.Some Tough terrain to fly for sure.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Just wondering when you think you'll be able to update the list?


----------



## luckyloft

I have said it before and I will say it again.YOU LIVE IN A BEAUTIFUL PART OF THE COUNTRY! Thanks for all the hard work,I am sure those long tosses are tough on the pocket book(GAS).I also know its tough to make those trips by yourself.I try to get my wife to go with me but she says she has better things to do. Jeff


----------



## SouthTown Racers

I hope a couple of MTP birds didnt eat each other over the pass??


----------



## kbraden

MaryOfExeter said:


> Just wondering when you think you'll be able to update the list?


I agree, I feel an updated list would be beneficial for those concerned about their birds. It would allow us to all see who is still in and who has... well, had a misfortune of sorts.


----------



## jpsnapdy

conditionfreak said:


> ...Anyway, at 8:00 pm, I folded a hand and went out to give a quick check for my late hatch youngsters, and there they were. At that moment that I went out to check for them, all landed on the roof of my garage which abuts my lofts. They then trapped quickly. All seven had come together at 8 pm. After (assumingly) flying for 11 hours. They stayed together for that long and all came home at the same time. They were worn out. Unbelievable to me. I would bet money that a bunch of late hatches would not stay together for 11 hours and trap at the same time. I am confounded to explain it. They must have just been out playing, I guess. I admit they were not hungry when I released them.
> 
> 
> Or, eating in a farm field for all of that time.


Whatever it is that they do, I love those birds that I feel take time "exploring" when they are young, for me they usually make great champs later, smart birds and tough too. I'd say : Keep an eye on those birds.


----------



## Flapdoodle

Updated the list. I did a physical inventory we are out 12 birds since the last update. Check the green line going all the way across. We could get a couple more from the toss yesterday. sorry for those they have lost birds, some are out both including me. 

Those MTP birds seem real fat. I hope they didn't stop and eat going over the pass.


----------



## Thunderbird Racing

thanks for the updated list Tom!


----------



## kbraden

Ditto! THANK YOU VERY MUCH for the updated list!


----------



## blongboy

thanks Tom ..i c mine are still in the race ..yes!!


----------



## conditionfreak

mtripoh: I hope your COV 28 comes back today. As well as all the other late/missing birds. 

I bet #28 does indeed show up today, unless the weather is bad there.


----------



## kalapati

Flapdoodle said:


> Updated the list. I did a physical inventory we are out 12 birds since the last update. Check the green line going all the way across. We could get a couple more from the toss yesterday. sorry for those they have lost birds, some are out both including me.
> 
> Those MTP birds seem real fat. I hope they didn't stop and eat going over the pass.



hi tom, 

thanks for the update. was my handicap bird included in the last training? just wondering for the bird's still on this updated list.

green highlights - what's the meaning? 
















kalapati
San Diego

http://blubarloft.dyndns.biz:81/Aview.htm


.


----------



## mtripOH

conditionfreak said:


> mtripoh: I hope your COV 28 comes back today. As well as all the other late/missing birds.
> 
> I bet #28 does indeed show up today, unless the weather is bad there.


Walt, I was thinking the same thing. I am sending all the "get back to the loft" vibes that I can muster.  Now the stress begins!


----------



## PigeonVilla

Green means they were lost recently but still with a chance to return Im thinking.


----------



## Flapdoodle

kalapati said:


> hi tom,
> 
> thanks for the update. was my handicap bird included in the last training? just wondering for the bird's still on this updated list.
> 
> green highlights - what's the meaning?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kalapati
> San Diego
> 
> http://blubarloft.dyndns.biz:81/Aview.htm
> 
> .


Green is missing. The green going all the way across the page are missing since the last update. If it is a short green line bird has been gone a month and chances are it is not coming back. Red is RIP. 

kalapati your bird has been to all the tosses. It has been in the later groups. She is not able to tuck the leg under so it creates plenty of drag. I have been meaning to PM you. I think it would be best to pull her out and not send her anymore. After the season I can get her back to you with the other bird or maybe I can use her as a breeder. I am sorry for the mishap. I know you have great birds and I wish she could race but it is not going to happen.


----------



## kalapati

Flapdoodle said:


> Green is missing. The green going all the way across the page are missing since the last update. If it is a short green line bird has been gone a month and chances are it is not coming back. Red is RIP.
> 
> kalapati your bird has been to all the tosses. It has been in the later groups. She is not able to tuck the leg under so it creates plenty of drag. I have been meaning to PM you. I think it would be best to pull her out and not send her anymore. After the season I can get her back to you with the other bird or maybe I can use her as a breeder. I am sorry for the mishap. I know you have great birds and I wish she could race but it is not going to happen.



sure. you can just have her for breeding. here's her strain breakdown:

her dam is an inbred GD of Super Champion. http://ganusfamilyloft.com/superchampion2.htm

sire's sire is a brother of my 811 & 802(2009 winnerscupusa champions) mated to the auntie, sister of 811 & 802's sire.



best regards,


kalapati
San Diego

http://blubarloft.dyndns.biz:81/Aview.htm


----------



## Xueoo

Looks like my flying pigeon is still there. I guess ghetto life really does toughen you up .


----------



## Xueoo

kalapati said:


> sure. you can just have her for breeding. here's her strain breakdown:
> 
> her dam is an inbred GD of Super Champion. http://ganusfamilyloft.com/superchampion2.htm
> 
> sire's sire is a brother of my 811 & 802(2009 winnerscupusa champions) mated to the auntie, sister of 811 & 802's sire.
> 
> 
> 
> best regards,
> 
> 
> kalapati
> San Diego
> 
> http://blubarloft.dyndns.biz:81/Aview.htm


Sent the big guns, eh. How am I supposed to compete with that kinda history ?


----------



## pigeonnewb

Xueoo said:


> Looks like my flying pigeon is still there. I guess ghetto life really does toughen you up .


I guess you can't get any more ghetto than sending babies from parents caught off the highway overpass? They still seem to be there too?


----------



## Xueoo

pigeonnewb said:


> I guess you can't get any more ghetto than sending babies from parents caught off the highway overpass? They still seem to be there too?


That is ghetto...but, have yours ever eaten mice droppings? And, I'm sure those overpass birds of yours have FRC champion birds all over the background, whereas mine, are lucky if they ever escape to live in those overpass luxury hotels.


----------



## pigeonnewb

Xueoo said:


> That is ghetto...but, have yours ever eaten mice droppings? And, I'm sure those overpass birds of yours have FRC champion birds all over the background, whereas mine, are lucky if they ever escape to live in those overpass luxury hotels.


They don't have FRC Champion blood, they are just my mediocre rejected birds from fliers in town . So with that in mind, hopefully they work a little harder, like me LOL!


----------



## MaryOfExeter

What does the order of the bands mean? It has changed twice that I've seen.


----------



## JaxRacingLofts

I see one of mine is out exploring the beautiful mountains of Northern California. I am sure he'll be back wiser for the experience.


----------



## conditionfreak

Looks alphabetical and numerical to me. A's first, with their numbers in sequence.


----------



## Thunderbird Racing

JaxRacingLofts said:


> I see one of mine is out exploring the beautiful mountains of Northern California. I am sure he'll be back wiser for the experience.


or it was the one my bird ate at Donor Pass....


----------



## MaryOfExeter

conditionfreak said:


> Looks alphabetical and numerical to me. A's first, with their numbers in sequence.


OH. Yeah I didn't even realize that. I was too distracted by the numbering on the left hand side.


----------



## conditionfreak

Big T: Hey, I see that there is only one white bird left in the mix and it is yours. You ain't gonna let Warren's "spell" work on you, are you? As they say on the streets, "you can't slip, cause if you slip, then you are slippin". 

mtripoh: don't know if you have noticed on "the list", but Flapdoodle has your bird listed as #1. Maybe he knows something. 

We had a tough race today. 200 YB and 300 OB. The old birds took eight hours on average to get home. The young 5 hours on average. I sent 4 old birds and 2 young birds. Only got back two old birds as of dark. My first one did good I think. The second not so good. Most are still out about half their birds sent. My neighbor sent 6 OB's and 11 YB's and has none home as of dark. He is ready to quit the sport "again", (but he won't as it's in his blood). 

Most people are just starting to think about young bird racing season. 

Next week is our young bird "auction race". I have one entry to hope on. It is a 200 mile race. My bird has done two 100's and one 150 but I kept it home this week. No sense taking a chance on losing it on a bad day. It can win money next week, if I get lucky.


----------



## First To Hatch

Was our first race as well today, two 100 mile races. First race by birds come home land in a tree and refuse to come down, I was pissed but atleast I saw it coming. Second race I released my dropper and a bird comes down as soon as it hits the landing board a hawks swoops down and scared them, that hawk then kept coming back 3-4 times and scared every bird trying to land, I could of done good in that race prolly too  oh well theirs always next week.


----------



## Crazy Pete

Its not real legal but a hawk doesn't no the difference between a real pistol and a starter pistol.
Dave


----------



## Josepe

Hatch,
Bummer about the tree landing and the hawk,You'll have better luck next week.Glad the BB hen is coming through for you so far.Her nestmate has made it so far in the PT race.


----------



## JaxRacingLofts

Thunderbird Racing said:


> or it was the one my bird ate at Donor Pass....


If your bird could catch mine and eat it then all I can say is I hope he chokes on the bones


----------



## Thunderbird Racing

JaxRacingLofts said:


> If your bird could catch mine and eat it then all I can say is I hope he chokes on the bones


too funny! After thinking about it I don't think my bird ate your, I think it flew past your so fast the wind draft sucked all the feathers off you bird...


----------



## JaxRacingLofts

Thunderbird Racing said:


> too funny! After thinking about it I don't think my bird ate your, I think it flew past your so fast the wind draft sucked all the feathers off you bird...


LOL that's a good one . I think my bird opted for some additional wing time...That Fabry blood loves a tough race and like any champion he's training hard.


----------



## mtripOH

conditionfreak said:


> mtripoh: don't know if you have noticed on "the list", but Flapdoodle has your bird listed as #1. Maybe he knows something.


I did notice that right off, but I did not want to sound presumptuous.  I do think that COV 26 will be a tough bird to beat! In the meantime COV 28 took the long route in hopes of building up his muscle and stamina.


----------



## First To Hatch

Josepe said:


> Hatch,
> Bummer about the tree landing and the hawk,You'll have better luck next week.Glad the BB hen is coming through for you so far.Her nestmate has made it so far in the PT race.


She was ahead by 3-4 minutes of the others, but didn't want to trap. The grizzle came in with one of my whites (3&4) and they tried to land but the hawk came at them as well.


----------



## rackerman

*Tom,
What are the numbers on the LEFT side of the list mean?? OH, thanks for the updates and videos too....*


Flapdoodle said:


> 10:17 was my post, it has something to do with the time setting on my account. I released the birds at 6:35. I expected the birds to make it back I was just being a jerk and trying to worry you guys. When I left for work we were still out a dozen or so birds.


----------



## Kastle Loft

Crazy Pete said:


> Its not real legal but a hawk doesn't no the difference between a real pistol and a starter pistol.
> Dave


Unfortunately the law doesn't see the distinction either. Simply "harassing" a hawk is illegal.


----------



## Crazy Pete

Your not harassing a hawk your getting practice being a coach for a track teem. What hawk I didn't see a hawk.
Dave


----------



## kbraden

Inventory List: The numbers on the left, are the numbering coinciding with the pretty picture video.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

OH. That makes sense!


----------



## Josepe

*Weekly Results*

"The over all concern for us here in the forum should be how your birds stack up against the other birds in the loft not necessarily in the combine"

Flap,
Will you have weekly print outs so we can see how the birds do against each other?


----------



## blongboy

Josepe said:


> "The over all concern for us here in the forum should be how your birds stack up against the other birds in the loft not necessarily in the combine"
> 
> Flap,
> Will you have weekly print outs so we can see how the birds do against each other?


i would like to see this too


----------



## Flapdoodle

Another tough toss this morning. When I left for work we were still out 20 birds. We tossed from Boomtown with the same flyer as last week. I am sure we are getting hammered by a peregrine. They live in those granite cliffs. Fly real high and come and bomb down on the group at 200 mph. The birds scatter every which way. We did have seven birds before the other loft had any by five minutes. We are about the same distance. Saturday we are going to participate in an unofficial race from Sparks, NV. I will toss short three times this week.

I will post the results from this Saturday's practice race.


----------



## pigeonnewb

Flapdoodle said:


> Another tough toss this morning. When I left for work we were still out 20 birds. We tossed from Boomtown with the same flyer as last week. I am sure we are getting hammered by a peregrine. They live in those granite cliffs. Fly real high and come and bomb down on the group at 200 mph. The birds scatter every which way. We did have seven birds before the other loft had any by five minutes. We are about the same distance. Saturday we are going to participate in an unofficial race from Sparks, NV. I will toss short three times this week.
> 
> I will post the results from this Saturday's practice race.


Have you been tossing with Steve? It seems you seem to be going on the same spots as he is with the Classic birds?


----------



## NayNay

Kastle Loft said:


> Unfortunately the law doesn't see the distinction either. Simply "harassing" a hawk is illegal.


I know they are protected- but they have rebounded really well. It seems like it should be ok to harass a little. After all, when the wolves started doing better and wandering out of Jellystone to eat cattle were they not then OK to shoot? I am not saying shoot a hawk, falcon, eagle, etc- But I am saying if a wild animal comes onto my property and kills my animals, shouldn't there be some allowances made? I know I can shoot/trap/kill lots of misc so called "vermin" if they are killing my chickens, and I live in town! Can't shoot a firearm, but can use a high powered hunting style air rifle. None of which is appealing to me- but I do have my Nerf Longshot out in the loft, and If I had a hawk on the landing board, I would harass now, and talk to fish and game about it later. I honestly respect their right to live and eat, and am ok with them grabbing a pigeon here and their to get by- but I will not be letting them hang out on the fence waiting!  I'll be all- "Fetch the tennis ball puppy!" then peg the BOP with it. It's not like we are running a 24 hour a day all you can eat buffet.


----------



## conditionfreak

Not only do I believe that it would be okay to harass or harm a hawk actually "hitting" our pigeons. But I had a wildlife management officer here for a different reason and I told him about the hawks hitting my birds. His response was:

"Just between you and me, I would shoot them"

I would not do such a thing and I am sure that officer would not say that officially. But his thoughts on the subject were that it is no different than shoting deer out of season if they are destroying your crops. They do give permission for that if you ahve them come out and verify the crop damage. I believe it is called nuisance hunting. Perhaps there is such a thing in connection with predator birds. I would think especially if you had a white dove release business. It is business and hawks are hurting your business.

But....I have not researched any of this yet. So don't act on my thoughts.


----------



## drifter

About four years ago some of the roller pigeon fanciers got into a lot of trouble over trapping and killing hawks. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1847727/posts


----------



## kbraden

Flapdoodle: I know it is a lot of work to do inventory on 55+ birds each time you toss, but can it be done again before the next toss in Sparks? And again prior to actual racing. I ask this so people can see if the ones lost the other day have made it back and who is still missing, plus who is missing from todays toss at Boomtown. Just gives us "concerned" pigeon owners an idea at what distance our birds get lost. 
Much appreciated!


P.S. can we keep this thread about the PT Race and not everyone's non-related chit-chat of the day. It is kind of annoying looking for posts about the race & training progress and having to syphon thru the rest of the yapping going on. Just saying


----------



## hillfamilyloft

It is wildlife management at it finest. They either let you eradicate the animal, ie buffalo, carrier pigeon and wolf, or kill none, ie. hawk. When animal populations are managed like dear and elk the balance is kept between humans animals and ecosystems. I have read articles about raptors and how many song birds they are killing almost to the point of extinction. Sounds like silent management when the warden has an attitude like that. If a guy lost one or two birds to a hawk every year, I do not think it would be much of an issue. But to have them wipe out half your young birds gets notice. I think eventually a process will be implemented to control raptors.


----------



## conditionfreak

If we kept it just about the PT race, there would be little here.

We are a community who has entered this race, and we haveother things to discuss that really don't need new threads for.

I don't see a problem with it.


----------



## Xueoo

Pigeon racing isn't done on one's property so it'll be hard for me to sympathize with one's greif over losing some birds to nature. I like all the birds of prey. I think they are an important part of the balance of life in the wild.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

When is the first race? Don't want to look back and try to find the post. A link will do just fine. Thinking it should be in the next week or so.


----------



## Crazy Pete

With my luck my birds will go in the c race, but it would be nice to no witch race the birds went on after the first race.

I don't think harassing a hawk should be a problem as long as there is no harm done. I have 2 grand children of Clausing 622 hen, a grandson of Sure Betand a grand daughter of Hollywood. I didn't spend that much $$ just to open the pantry door and let the hawks eat.
Dave


----------



## Crazy Pete

Xueoo said:


> Pigeon racing isn't done on one's property so it'll be hard for me to sympathize with one's greif over losing some birds to nature. I like all the birds of prey. I think they are an important part of the balance of life in the wild.


I don't think it will be much longer and they will be out of balance, if some thing isn't done to control them they will be out of food well except our birds.
Dave


----------



## kbraden

hillfamilyloft said:


> When is the first race? Don't want to look back and try to find the post. A link will do just fine. Thinking it should be in the next week or so.


First race is Aug 27th



Flapdoodle said:


> *We have five and half weeks until the first race, August 27th.*


 from post http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=593961&postcount=1162


----------



## NayNay

Crazy Pete said:


> I don't think it will be much longer and they will be out of balance, if some thing isn't done to control them they will be out of food well except our birds.
> Dave


Yes- out of balance is certainly the issue. Humans mess it up- then mess it all up some more before they leave it be. They have obviously recovered quite well- too well. And like so many of the critters that we feel are important enough to save, they are gorgeous, majestic, and incredible. But man, it did not take them long to figure out that I had built a loft, aka feeding station. I am just knocking on wood that I have only lost 1 bird. Another club member lives in a little Victorian House with a little tiny loft in her totally overgrown garden- her birds have a postage stamp to fly to. Anyway, that gal went out on her deck one morning and the dang hawk was sitting ten feet away in her lilac bush waiting for breakfast! Big bird didn't bat an eye, no fear of her at all. 

I think Flap said First race was this weekend.


----------



## Xueoo

Crazy Pete said:


> I don't think it will be much longer and they will be out of balance, if some thing isn't done to control them they will be out of food well except our birds.
> Dave


Out of balance would be the result of thousands of pigeons lost every year living free to breed and populate the land. Imagine what would happen if there were few predators. Man has unnaturally fed predator for all these years. Balance is happening now.


----------



## conditionfreak

There were a ga-zillion Passenger Pigeons on this continent at one time. Now there is not one. Not one.

It was not predator birds that did that. It was not disease nor nature that caused that. It was man.

Humans usually go overboard with everything they do. If some wolves are taking young calfs, sheep, goats or whatever. Then humans go after all wolves and the next thing you know, we have to protect them. Why can't "we" control ourselves and do it right? 

You target the problem individual predators and not the entire species. We shouldn't kill all rats because some in NYC carry disease. We shouldn't target all pigeons because some in Boston poop on cars. We shouldn't target all predator birds because some in your neighborhood take your pigeons.

The season to legally hunt coyotes is year round. Anywhere, anytime. Why? Don't they have a place on this planet? Predator birds do also. Just not in my back yard. I race homing pigeons. How many of me are their? Not many. Why can't those that do race homing pigeons legally deal with predator birds attacking their flocks? It is a different story when the pigeons are flying during training or racing, because the homing pigeon is the fastest bird on the plaent in level flight and a predator bird has a slim chance of getting one when a racing pigeon is flying. They will scatter the pigeons for sure, and mess up the toss or race. But that is far different from taking five week old squeakers off the landing board of a loft. Those are literally sitting ducks. Take out food.

If pigeon enthusiasts were allowed to deal with the predator birds just at their individual locations, the predator population would still thrive and most probably be in even a better place. Not quite so many, and thus not quite so much in competition for food.

In other words, if pigeon keepers were allowed to "deal" with predator birds, it would not even make a dent in the predator bird population. There just ain't that many of us.

Now, the problem with me would be that I could never actually harm a bird of any kind. But I could devise dome harassment methods that would help. One being the blank gun method mentioned earlier. Another might be bottle rockets, or some fighting roosters equipped with metal spurs.

Or my favorite idea. Kung fu trained pigeons.


----------



## jpsnapdy

Crazy Pete said:


> I don't think it will be much longer and they will be out of balance, if some thing isn't done to control them they will be out of food well except our birds.
> Dave


I + that! like they say on some blogs.

It also reminds me of the debate in the Pyrénées mountains in the South of France when the last brown bear female had been shot. The pro-bear saying that it would upset the natural balance and those against who said that if it was a threat to human activities, the bear had to go. Finally bears from central Europe were introduced. An endless debate.
But the hawks and pigeons debate is different because the hawk population has increased rapidly in many (most) regions of the world due to it being protected and it not having a serious natural predator except man. I feel some sort of control has to be devised and implemented. Overpopulation of any species has to be dealt with in a responsible manner or ultimately Nature will hit back.

Talking about pigeons, I hope my PT Red Check has returned...


----------



## Big T

Xueoo said:


> Out of balance would be the result of thousands of pigeons lost every year living free to breed and populate the land. Imagine what would happen if there were few predators. Man has unnaturally fed predator for all these years. Balance is happening now.


Balance!!! Man killed most predators so we must cull the herds to maintain balance. Now Man has brought back the Coyote to Georgia to help with the over population of small wildlife. The coyote has done a wonderful job of removing small dogs and cats from the neighborhoods. I see the missing pet signs everyday. The coyote find pets are easier to catch then the feral animals. Same reason Hawks wait by the loft instead of looking for game elsewhere.

Balance!!! Man has populated the world to the point that wildlife is on the decline in most countries. Not all governments put controls on killing wildlife.

Somehow I find fault in Man's since of balance. Good News is Nature has her own sense of balance and regardless of Man's development, he still must live within Nature.

Tony 

Tony


----------



## conditionfreak

Couple of points. If a coyote kills and eats a house cat, the coyote is shot if given the opportunity. It may even be shot just on the chance that it is considering killing and eating a house pet.

If a tiger kills and eats a human, we target it for destruction.

But if a white tail deer is minding its own business, we humans target it to kill and eat. Even make a trophy out of it. Ever hear of a coyote hanging a house cats head on its den wall? I guess its good to be the one who has the guns.

The other point. I just saw on TV that there is a big problem with wind mill farms killing predator birds. Eagles in particular. They reported that 80 Golden Eagles were killed in just one state in one year, due to rotating wind mill blades. There are many states with windmill farms. Some out in the oceans. They also reported that wind mill farms are exempt from fines for their accidental killing of raptors. Protected species.

But they also reported that when the Exxon Valdez oil spill occurred, the oil company was fined 6 hundred thousand dollars for the specific reason of killing protected predator birds, and when a lot of predator birds got killed in power lines owned by another company, the company was fined for providing an unsafe environment for raptors and killing some.

Seems the "green" movement is exempt from fines for accidentally killing protected species, but if you are not considered a "green" company, then you get fined or closed down.

"Green". Ha Ha. Killing majestic eagles is considered green. Not too mention all of the other life windmills destroy. There has to be many types of flying critters they harm. Bats, sea gulls, eagles, hawks, whatever. Just think about having giant fans running in a school yard, with no protective screen covering them. And your children or grandchildren are running and playing there. hmmm....probably not such a good idea.

Okay. Off my soapbox now.


----------



## Flapdoodle

kbraden said:


> Flapdoodle: I know it is a lot of work to do inventory on 55+ birds each time you toss, but can it be done again before the next toss in Sparks? And again prior to actual racing. I ask this so people can see if the ones lost the other day have made it back and who is still missing, plus who is missing from todays toss at Boomtown. Just gives us "concerned" pigeon owners an idea at what distance our birds get lost.
> Much appreciated!
> .........


Sure thing... Tomorrow AM I am going to check all the birds. I will make sure chip rings are correct in the clock. I will toss the birds short 40 miles Thursday and Friday AM. Friday night we will basket birds for a practice race with just my club. All the birds will be scanned in just like a race. I should be able to print results the next day. If not I will for sure post results by hand from that saturdays race. All the birds will be sent that are able. GFTG 107 was hit by a falcon on yesterdays toss. The bird will be fine but will miss the first few races. We are two for two, both tosses from the other side of the sierras we have had raptor problems. 

Unfortunately that is part of the course we fly.


----------



## conditionfreak

What is the difference between a practice race and an actual race?

Is it considered a practice race because the combine is not involved, or is it a practice race because of the numbers of birds allowed to be shipped?


----------



## Flapdoodle

conditionfreak said:


> What is the difference between a practice race and an actual race?
> 
> Is it considered a practice race because the combine is not involved, or is it a practice race because of the numbers of birds allowed to be shipped?


Practice for us (the people) to make sure all the clocks are working, correct bands, etc. Our normal race secretary is going to be out of town the weekend of the first combine race, August 27th. Typically the first race there are a few bugs with chip rings not being recognized or other computer/clock issues. Being he is not going to be around to work that stuff out the night of the first race the club decided to do this glorified training toss to work out the bugs. 

I am not sure how many members are going to ship. I think we could have 400 birds but who knows. 

We will use this toss Saturday and maybe one toss the Tuesday following to determine which birds go in the A and B race on the 27th. The first 30 birds will split odd to the A race, even to the B race. The rest as trainers.


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

Looks like on of mine didn't make it back. Waiting for the most recent list update to see if the bird just went sight seeing or took a long vacation. 

Tom, the updates and videos are much appreciated!


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Flapdoodle said:


> Sure thing... Tomorrow AM I am going to check all the birds. I will make sure chip rings are correct in the clock. I will toss the birds short 40 miles Thursday and Friday AM. Friday night we will basket birds for a practice race with just my club. All the birds will be scanned in just like a race. I should be able to print results the next day. If not I will for sure post results by hand from that saturdays race. All the birds will be sent that are able. GFTG 107 was hit by a falcon on yesterdays toss. The bird will be fine but will miss the first few races. We are two for two, both tosses from the other side of the sierras we have had raptor problems.
> 
> Unfortunately that is part of the course we fly.


107 is my bird. Thanks for the heads-up. Better let it rest for the bigger races. Hopefully it will be smarter from the hit.


----------



## conditionfreak

If it has all of its tail feathers.  Sometimes mine get hit and they come home with none. It takes a while for them to grow back.

My buddy sent a "money" bird to a race, that was missing all of its tail feathers. It never came home. Bad decision on his part, but he had paid for the money band and wasn't gonna let a little thing like no tail feathers keep him from sending it.


----------



## First To Hatch

conditionfreak said:


> If it has all of its tail feathers.  Sometimes mine get hit and they come home with none. It takes a while for them to grow back.
> 
> My buddy sent a "money" bird to a race, that was missing all of its tail feathers. It never came home. Bad decision on his part, but he had paid for the money band and wasn't gonna let a little thing like no tail feathers keep him from sending it.


I had a YB in the begiining of the season assumingly got hit and lost its tail feathers, it wouldn't fly with the other till its tail feathers grew back.


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

conditionfreak said:


> Couple of points. If a coyote kills and eats a house cat, the coyote is shot if given the opportunity. It may even be shot just on the chance that it is considering killing and eating a house pet.
> 
> If a tiger kills and eats a human, we target it for destruction.
> 
> But if a white tail deer is minding its own business, we humans target it to kill and eat. Even make a trophy out of it. Ever hear of a coyote hanging a house cats head on its den wall? I guess its good to be the one who has the guns.
> 
> The other point. I just saw on TV that there is a big problem with wind mill farms killing predator birds. Eagles in particular. They reported that 80 Golden Eagles were killed in just one state in one year, due to rotating wind mill blades. There are many states with windmill farms. Some out in the oceans. They also reported that wind mill farms are exempt from fines for their accidental killing of raptors. Protected species.
> 
> But they also reported that when the Exxon Valdez oil spill occurred, the oil company was fined 6 hundred thousand dollars for the specific reason of killing protected predator birds, and when a lot of predator birds got killed in power lines owned by another company, the company was fined for providing an unsafe environment for raptors and killing some.
> 
> Seems the "green" movement is exempt from fines for accidentally killing protected species, but if you are not considered a "green" company, then you get fined or closed down.
> 
> "Green". Ha Ha. Killing majestic eagles is considered green. Not too mention all of the other life windmills destroy. There has to be many types of flying critters they harm. Bats, sea gulls, eagles, hawks, whatever. Just think about having giant fans running in a school yard, with no protective screen covering them. And your children or grandchildren are running and playing there. hmmm....probably not such a good idea.
> 
> Okay. *Off my soapbox now*.


 Poor humans, they get such a bum rap. Millions of species have come and gone over billions of years and the human race had nothing to do with it. In time, and I know for some of you it won't be fast enough, but in time, the human animal will be gone as well. Just like the earth has warmed up and cooled down over billions of years, and again it has not been the work of humans. 

I think it all has something to do with the fact that humans have this thing with self importance. As if saving a specie or "saving" the earth is some sort of grand important thing. My cats don't worry about such things, so why should I ? I typically hear some response that if we don't "save" this or "save" that, then all of the human race will die off...so I am thinking so, it's going to happen at some point anyway, like it will with every other specie, you think the earth will be here forever ? A hundred years from now, everyone reading this will be dead....and in time so will every living thing on this earth. So, everyone chill out. Everything you can see, touch, feel, smell, hear, etc. will all be gone someday, regardless of what anyone says or does. OK, I am now off my soap box. 


(And why do they call it a soap box? )


----------



## chiggerbait

Amen brother!


----------



## Josepe

I think everyone's looking forward to the updates and for the races to begin.It's been a long time coming.


----------



## blongboy

Tom how far is the race/toss on Saturday?


----------



## rackerman

I'm just happy to be a part of the PT race. Thank you Walt!!!!!!!!!!! Yes, it's been a long time coming. I am looking forward to the update too!!!
I wish each and everyone of you good luck, especially you Walt.........
Thank you too Tom for pulling this off. I wish the best for you and your Family. Thank you!!


----------



## Matt M

Good luck to everybody in the first race -- I missed out on the opportunity for this year but maybe next time... I had a question about all the "GFTG" bands on the list -- they're consecutive band #'s but from different folks all over, was there a common breeder for all of them and they're being sponsored by the flyers from other parts of the country? If so that's pretty cool.


----------



## Matt Bell

Matt M said:


> Good luck to everybody in the first race -- I missed out on the opportunity for this year but maybe next time... I had a question about all the "GFTG" bands on the list -- they're consecutive band #'s but from different folks all over, was there a common breeder for all of them and they're being sponsored by the flyers from other parts of the country? If so that's pretty cool.


No, it stands for Go for the Gold, basically its a money band race, bands sold by the club for a certain amount of money and then its paid back as prize money on a specific race during the season.


----------



## Josepe

The "GFTG" bands were from Tom's club and sold to anyone who wanted there birds enetered in hic club's Bond Race also I believe,which I think was cancelled.


----------



## Flapdoodle

I updated the inventory. We are down to 53 birds. The list shows 54, we picked up a stray. I am not sure when. I contacted the owner and he said to just fly it.

The birds marked with an X are in the loft. No X, they are MIA. Red is RIP, Green line half way across was missing prior to the first toss that was over the pass. Green line all the way across are missing from Truckee Toss, white and no x are missing from Boomtown toss this week. 

Hope you can decode all that info. The numbers as stated are the order they show up in the video. 

Basically if your bird has an x it is good to go and will be raced Saturday (with the exception of GFTG 107).


----------



## Flapdoodle

Matt Bell said:


> No, it stands for Go for the Gold, basically its a money band race, bands sold by the club for a certain amount of money and then its paid back as prize money on a specific race during the season.





Josepe said:


> The "GFTG" bands were from Tom's club and sold to anyone who wanted there birds enetered in hic club's Bond Race also I believe,which I think was cancelled.


GFTG Race is still on, here is the info: 

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=544873&postcount=428


----------



## mtripOH

Thanks Tom for the report. You are doing a great job! I wonder what is up with COV28. Figured he would have checked in with you by now


----------



## kbraden

Thanks Tom!!! Glad to see mine are still there, now as long as they don't detour to come visit their parents while racing, we should do well LOL
Again, thanks for the updates!!!


----------



## Xueoo

I was actually very concerned from the last set of losses. I sent only one bird and the % isn't on my side. Good job ghetto bird for staying alive.


----------



## Josepe

Thanks Tom.


----------



## Timber

Thanks Tom for the updated list....! 

Lets go OCALA-1082!!!!


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

Let's go PINOY 602!


----------



## Flapdoodle

Xueoo said:


> I was actually very concerned from the last set of losses. I sent only one bird and the % isn't on my side. Good job ghetto bird for staying alive.


I am concerned as well. Two bad tosses in a row. Birds coming home scattered. I hope to get two short tosses in tomorrow and Friday AM. Hopefully get all the birds coming in together. I have had my eye on the weather. It is going to be low 90's Saturday. Out of the club members flying we are on the south end and a few miles longer then the other lofts. It should be good for the birds, give them more experience. 

If they cut the birds out at 6:30 they should be home before/around 9:00.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

How many birds will be going on this test race? All of them?


----------



## Flapdoodle

MaryOfExeter said:


> How many birds will be going on this test race? All of them?


The plan is to send them all. Kind of like the line from shawshank redemption. "get busy living or get busy dying". There are a couple of lofts that don't like release spot. It is a little north of the line of flight. If they are shipping elsewhere I may go that route. The best birds in the loft need Saturday to get ready for the first race on the 27th.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

So they will have chip rings and everything to test out? Will you put up the results of our birds? I don't see why it couldn't be considered one of the PT races. Probably the only "real" one as the others you won't be able to send all of the birds, right?


----------



## Flapdoodle

MaryOfExeter said:


> So they will have chip rings and everything to test out? Will you put up the results of our birds? I don't see why it couldn't be considered one of the PT races. Probably the only "real" one as the others you won't be able to send all of the birds, right?


Your right this will be the only time all the birds will be tossed together. They all have chip rings we will scan them all in just like a race. I should be able to print a race sheet. If I can't I can do it by hand. 

I have 4 kids in soccer. Saturdays you may have to wait until later in the afternoon for results.


----------



## Crazy Pete

Good job getting the birds ready Tom. I would like to see the race sheet also but, family always comes first. Post when it is good for you.
Dave


----------



## West

Timber said:


> Thanks Tom for the updated list....!
> 
> Lets go OCALA-1082!!!!


We're hanging in there bud.


----------



## blongboy

Tom how far is the money race the GFTG race?


----------



## Xueoo

West said:


> We're hanging in there bud.


I see them Florida birds are having a hard time in this race!


----------



## Big T

Flapdoodle said:


> Your right this will be the only time all the birds will be tossed together. They all have chip rings we will scan them all in just like a race. I should be able to print a race sheet. If I can't I can do it by hand.
> 
> *I have 4 kids in soccer. Saturdays you may have to wait until later in the afternoon for results*.


Kids only grow up once. We can wait till later for the results. Race is done so patience is the least we can give you for all you have done.

Tony.


----------



## eyespyer

Tom:

Your doing a great job!!!

I see my birds on the top of the list, I hope to see that often. LOL

Thanks


----------



## Flapdoodle

blongboy said:


> Tom how far is the money race the GFTG race?


GFTG winner will be the best average speed from three regular combine races. The 3 races are the 2nd, 4th, and 8th week. Lovelock @ 170, Winnemuca @ 250, & Elko @ 300. The birds have to of been banded with the GFTG bands to be eligible.


----------



## blongboy

i see that all the birds from NC is still flying
good luck everyone ..crossing my finger for no hawk attack


----------



## Timber

West said:


> We're hanging in there bud.


It will be good to see the results as they come in. The stock loft may have a few less birds next year.....LOL



Xueoo said:


> I see them Florida birds are having a hard time in this race!


Yeah, I forgot to pack the sun tan lotion for them......LOL


----------



## Josepe

Looking forward to Saturday's results.Let the crate doors drop! Good Luck to all!


----------



## hillfamilyloft

The races this year will be a war of attrition. I think if a bird just lasts the season it will have a good chance of winning something. One of the tougher courses the birds will fly. I think the only harder course my birds have flown is due North from south of Grand Junction over Grand Mesa at 12k feet. It is about the same elevation change. Probably worse heat. The desert and mountain birds might have an advantage over the flat landers.


----------



## k2rmx.rob

Wow my birds did not make it thru this training season, going to be a sideline spectator this pt season. Good luck to all and have fun.


----------



## kbraden

If you folks want to see the weather out here, this is the link to the best news channel in Northern NV. At least you can all see the temps, humidity, winds, etc... for racing days.

http://www.ktvn.com/category/161759/7-day-forecast?redirected=true

(If you scroll down next to the satellite image, and click Todays Weather, it will show the details of barrometer, winds, etc...)


----------



## MaryOfExeter

k2rmx.rob said:


> Wow my birds did not make it thru this training season, going to be a sideline spectator this pt season. Good luck to all and have fun.


It's a tough course! Sorry about your birds. But hey, they might come back down the road!


----------



## Crazy Pete

kbraden said:


> If you folks want to see the weather out here, this is the link to the best news channel in Northern NV. At least you can all see the temps, humidity, winds, etc... for racing days.
> 
> http://www.ktvn.com/category/161759/7-day-forecast?redirected=true
> 
> (If you scroll down next to the satellite image, and click Todays Weather, it will show the details of barrometer, winds, etc...)


I may be a hard course, but you have nice weather. 94 degrees and it feels like 87 with only 6% humidity. Don't come to Ne. you wouldn't like it, When its 94 here we have a heat index of 120 with 90% humidity.
I think these flat land birds will do ok.
Dave


----------



## kbraden

Crazy Pete said:


> I may be a hard course, but you have nice weather. 94 degrees and it feels like 87 with only 6% humidity. Don't come to Ne. you wouldn't like it, When its 94 here we have a heat index of 120 with 90% humidity.
> I think these flat land birds will do ok.
> Dave


I think it lies on the temp tho! They must be talking in the shade  
I am 60 miles east of Reno and our temp said 104 today!


----------



## conditionfreak

There will be less than 24 of the birds currently in the running, that will be here at the end of the season. Not counting the birds held back due to injury.

All of our birds that survive this season, are winners in my book. Just like last years survivors.

Tough course, and a tougher competition this year than last.


----------



## Crazy Pete

kbraden said:


> I think it lies on the temp tho! They must be talking in the shade
> I am 60 miles east of Reno and our temp said 104 today!


Now if we could get your humidity up some my birds would feel more like home
Dave

All bull aside, I just hope my birds make it till the end.


----------



## Gnuretiree

Shipping for our first race here in Ct is tonight, but I won't be sending birds because I am not ready. I took them on a training toss yesterday and had a Coopers hawk waiting here when they got back. She would not let them land all day. I think I have lost the season here to the hawks. Very discouraging, so I guess the one bird I have flying out there will have to carry the load.


----------



## Xueoo

Good luck to all the birds for tomorrow's practice race. This should get them used to the process and eventually benefit them the rest of the season.


----------



## conditionfreak

Just shipped birds with my "first" club, to the 400 (old birds) and 200 (young birds). I shipped just one young bird (auction bird). Wish me luck. Not much drag to my loft with just one bird in the race. 

Hope they all come home.

Shipping with my "other club" next Saturday. Young birds only. To the 100 and 150.


----------



## Xueoo

How're the feathers on the old birds?


----------



## rackerman

*Good Luck Walt!*


conditionfreak said:


> Just shipped birds with my "first" club, to the 400 (old birds) and 200 (young birds). I shipped just one young bird (auction bird). Wish me luck. Not much drag to my loft with just one bird in the race.
> 
> Hope they all come home.
> 
> Shipping with my "other club" next Saturday. Young birds only. To the 100 and 150.


----------



## Flapdoodle

Just got home from shipping. I did not get a final count. I think we have nine flyers, about 550 total birds. We shipped 53. We use two different clocking systems most have benzing others have tipes. I was working the benzing side. Most the flyers have around 50 or so birds. One guy had 98. Not sure about the three flyers using tipes. 

The release is going to be 7:00 am. Like I said I have four playing soccer. Picture day tomorrow. I need to leave the house before 9:00. We won't have any birds yet. I am not sure exactly on the distance. Around 115 miles I would guess. We are meeting back at the club at 1:30 for knock off. Good luck to everyone racing!


----------



## conditionfreak

Xueoo said:


> How're the feathers on the old birds?


Both old and young are on their fifth flights. That is why I only shipped the one young bird. I do not like racing birds on their fifth flight in the molt.

I only sent four old birds.

Other than that, no feather problems. No head molt at all.


----------



## conditionfreak

If I don't have a bird in the top ten percent in the PT thing, I am going to be very disappointed. I will probably eat chocolate to console myself.





(Who am I kidding. I'm gonna eat chocolate no matter what my bird does)


----------



## blongboy

conditionfreak said:


> If I don't have a bird in the top ten percent in the PT thing, I am going to be very disappointed. I will probably eat chocolate to console myself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Who am I kidding. I'm gonna eat chocolate no matter what my bird does)


chocolate cake for me ... yes i can wait to see how my black bird do


----------



## Crazy Pete

I can't eat chocolate its to fatening, I think I'll just have a rootbeer float.
Dave


----------



## Flapdoodle

I was out checking the clock and making sure everything was good to go. We had four birds in the loft. Three I expected, a hurt GFTG, bird with broken leg, and an unbanded stray. The fourth was COV 32, he wanted some breakfast this morning. Been out 4 days, I will keep my eye on him. He is pretty light.


----------



## conditionfreak

Yea COV 32. Better late than never.

I bet he learned something. Like, the early bird gets the worm. (or chocolate cake) 



P.S. Nothing I know of brings a bird back from light, like some spanish peanuts. Some electrolytes would be good also.


----------



## kbraden

Congrats Walt on the return of your bird! Guess he finally ran out of chips at the casinos and had to go home  Same thing happens to people, they come out of the casino after a few days and they are lighter too  Nothing like an all-you-can-eat buffet and a nap afterwards to get back in the swing of things


----------



## conditionfreak

Ain't my bird. It belongs to rackerman. I'm rooting for him to get third.  I'm rooting for mtripoh to get second.  Want to hazard a guess whom I rooting for to get 1st? 

Ladies and gentlemen. It has been a long summer wait. But now the fun starts. (or my bird gets lost today, and I go into a deep depression and eat lots and lots of chocolate)


----------



## MaryOfExeter

I'm already eating chocolate, LOL. Just ate a lovely cookies and cream hershey's bar.


----------



## kbraden

conditionfreak said:


> Ain't my bird. It belongs to rackerman. I'm rooting for him to get third.  I'm rooting for mtripoh to get second.  Want to hazard a guess whom I rooting for to get 1st?
> 
> Ladies and gentlemen. It has been a long summer wait. But now the fun starts. (or my bird gets lost today, and I go into a deep depression and eat lots and lots of chocolate)


Woops, my bad. Rackerman... congrats on the return of the lost bird ! 

Ah, chocoholic here too, thinking either Sonic Oreo Cookie Blast or a nice partially frozen slice of Edward's Turtle Pie maybe


----------



## rackerman

*Yes, COV 32!!!!! Signs of a Champion....*


Flapdoodle said:


> I was out checking the clock and making sure everything was good to go. We had four birds in the loft. Three I expected, a hurt GFTG, bird with broken leg, and an unbanded stray. The fourth was COV 32, he wanted some breakfast this morning. Been out 4 days, I will keep my eye on him. He is pretty light.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

kbraden said:


> Woops, my bad. Rackerman... congrats on the return of the lost bird !
> 
> Ah, chocoholic here too, thinking either Sonic Oreo Cookie Blast or a nice partially frozen slice of Edward's Turtle Pie maybe


Oreo blasts are my favorite! Ah man, I really want one now


----------



## Flapdoodle

Check the list. It is sorted by trapping order. This was as of 1:00 this afternoon. We should get more birds tonight. 

This is just a quick note. Toss was about 115 miles. More info a little later...


----------



## blongboy

i guess mine did ok ...i want to see better


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Great. Last place. Time to go stuff my face.


----------



## Xueoo

Not bad at all...

Would like to see the times.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Both of mine are long distance birds so I'm not surprised they came in at the bottom. They should get better as the races get longer.


----------



## First To Hatch

MaryOfExeter said:


> Both of mine are long distance birds so I'm not surprised they came in at the bottom. They should get better as the races get longer.


Thats what I keep saying to myself here lol. But that BBs nest mate came home from the 100 mile race 6 minutes ahead of all my other birds and sat in a tree if she woulda trapped would of been 12th.


----------



## blongboy

MaryOfExeter said:


> Both of mine are long distance birds so I'm not surprised they came in at the bottom. They should get better as the races get longer.


mines are too


----------



## kbraden

MaryOfExeter said:


> Great. Last place. Time to go stuff my face.


ROFL!!!! so that means 2 large oreo blasts? 

Yeh, mine needs to get her rear in gear, 14th place ain't too good. But at least she made it home  Now to figure out where her brother went lolly-gagging off to 

Notice, none of the red checks made it back? Wierd.


----------



## conditionfreak

COV 100, where are you????

 Off to the chocolate store.

In our old bird 400 today, there are no birds home as of 7:30 pm EST. No one in my club has seen a bird yet. Weather seems okay all the way, but most everyones birds are on their fifth flight and it is very muggy here. I can only imagine it is worse further south where they are coming from.

Tomorrow is our 200 young bird race. Now they are predicting rain early in the morning.


----------



## rackerman

*Tom, what do you mean, is sorted by trapping order? Just curious....*


Flapdoodle said:


> Check the list. It is sorted by trapping order. This was as of 1:00 this afternoon. We should get more birds tonight.
> 
> This is just a quick note. Toss was about 115 miles. More info a little later...


----------



## MaryOfExeter

The order they came home from the race


----------



## MaryOfExeter

kbraden said:


> ROFL!!!! so that means 2 large oreo blasts?
> 
> Yeh, mine needs to get her rear in gear, 14th place ain't too good. But at least she made it home  Now to figure out where her brother went lolly-gagging off to
> 
> Notice, none of the red checks made it back? Wierd.


Yep!  LOL.
One of mine is a red bar, if that makes a difference, haha.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

I noticed you sent the stray and it came back (in good time). That is cool.


----------



## Josepe

Congrats to the top 10% finishers and also to everyone who's birds made it home this time to clock.It's bound to get more interesting as the races go on and the birds get more experience.Hope the rest of the birds make it back also.Thanks Tom! It ain't over til it's over.


----------



## kbraden

Can I claim the stray? LOL


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Don't understand how mine could have got home last when it never left the loft? Ha Ha. Must have been the first birds girl friend. Gave it a little motivations. Hope the other two get home, Josepe and Ace. Looks like they will be on the C team next week if they show up. The red one has Warren blood in it. Those birds only fly good if there is money in the race. Hard to judge a bird by a 100 mile toss. Seen some birds buzz the loft from 100 miles and then go out routing. Am concerned about the ones not back yet. Good to get them up with the whole flock.


----------



## Pigeon0446

conditionfreak said:


> COV 100, where are you????
> 
> Off to the chocolate store.
> 
> In our old bird 400 today, there are no birds home as of 7:30 pm EST. No one in my club has seen a bird yet. Weather seems okay all the way, but most everyones birds are on their fifth flight and it is very muggy here. I can only imagine it is worse further south where they are coming from.
> 
> Tomorrow is our 200 young bird race. Now they are predicting rain early in the morning.


I've been using my top OB's my 2 time winner and my other Hall of Fame bird as kickers to train my YB's and I wouldn't want those OB's flying any races this time of the year they are missing so many feathers. I couldn't see shipping them out to fly a 400 mile race.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

MaryOfExeter said:


> Both of mine are long distance birds so I'm not surprised they came in at the bottom. They should get better as the races get longer.


Hope you don't gain 10 pounds before the long races eating all that chocolate. Will give them an advantage coming over those mountains in the longer races.


----------



## blongboy

hillfamilyloft said:


> Don't understand how mine could have got home last when it never left the loft? Ha Ha. Must have been the first birds girl friend. Gave it a little motivations. Hope the other two get home, Josepe and Ace. Looks like they will be on the C team next week if they show up. The red one has Warren blood in it. *Those birds only fly good if there is money in the race*. Hard to judge a bird by a 100 mile toss. Seen some birds buzz the loft from 100 miles and then go out routing. Am concerned about the ones not back yet. Good to get them up with the whole flock.


lol .....


----------



## Josepe

Blongboy,
I'd be real happy with that finish.It's going to be a Long Hard series til the end with the results changing from race to race I'd say.As stated by some the birds left at the end will all be Winners.


----------



## blongboy

Josepe said:


> Blongboy,
> I'd be real happy with that finish.It's going to be a Long Hard series til the end with the results changing from race to race I'd say.As stated by some the birds left at the end will all be Winners.


yea i think so too ..i'll just be happy seeing my homer come back home


----------



## Josepe

Randy,
Hope they show up also.

"Those birds only fly good if there is money in the race."

There is money in the race,between Crazy Pete and I.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Josepe said:


> Randy,
> Hope they show up also.
> 
> "Those birds only fly good if there is money in the race."
> 
> There is money in the race,between Crazy Pete and I.


Well he better get home then.


----------



## kbraden

And the winner tonight is....


----------



## Flapdoodle

I updated the trapping time. I left the seconds off because I was lazy. For the races I will post the actual race sheet. 

Our results were pretty normal compared to everyone else with one exception. Mr 2nd place AU for YB the past two years had 54 birds trap in less then a minute. It helps that he sent 90+ birds. He took every spot on the first page of the results. 

Everyone else had birds scattered like we did. The loft we train with sent 43 and was out 10 at knockoff. We had four more show up tonight. Hopefully we can pick up more in the morning. Being it was just the club we could of had a few more trap in other lofts. I will keep my fingers crossed for the others. 

I believe the guy who did the release took some video. I will see if we can upload it.


----------



## Xueoo

These short races are unpredictable. Anything can happen. It's good to get one out of the way.


----------



## Crazy Pete

Josepe said:


> Randy,
> Hope they show up also.
> 
> "Those birds only fly good if there is money in the race."
> 
> There is money in the race,between Crazy Pete and I.


Its a good thing this was the first race or I would have lost the bet, and I still may.

Only one of the rc's came home, late but home his nest mate is the same way. 
Dave


----------



## kbraden

Woohoo, my lost bird has arrived. Might have 2 pieces of pie tonight in celebration LOL Thanks Tom for the update!

Keeping my fingers crossed for the others MIA that they come home safely.


----------



## Xueoo

Flapdoodle said:


> I updated the trapping time. I left the seconds off because I was lazy. For the races I will post the actual race sheet.
> 
> Our results were pretty normal compared to everyone else with one exception. Mr 2nd place AU for YB the past two years had 54 birds trap in less then a minute. It helps that he sent 90+ birds. He took every spot on the first page of the results.
> 
> Everyone else had birds scattered like we did. The loft we train with sent 43 and was out 10 at knockoff. We had four more show up tonight. Hopefully we can pick up more in the morning. Being it was just the club we could of had a few more trap in other lofts. I will keep my fingers crossed for the others.
> 
> I believe the guy who did the release took some video. I will see if we can upload it.


Is mr. 2nd place au flying light or dark?


----------



## Josepe

I'm sure they'll all return and things will start fresh next race.


----------



## mtripOH

conditionfreak said:


> I'm rooting for him to get third.  I'm rooting for mtripoh to get second.  Want to hazard a guess whom I rooting for to get 1st?


WoooHooo!!! COV 26 made it home! We will be more than happy with a second place! Walt, are you having Tom hold COV100 back Just to give us some false hope that we (Russ and Josiah) will come out on top?  I am still holding out hope that COV28 will make an appearance. 
On a side note, Josiah and I are off to the Lorain County Fair today! We will be camping out there all week (not my cup of tea) but we will have a good time. Josiah is showing a Russian High flier pair for 4-H. He is stepping up to the plate this year and showing 3 pigeons in the open barn. 2 homers and a pigmy pouter. His judging starts tomorrow.


----------



## JaxRacingLofts

Looking at the list it seems my bird JAX 2618 trapped in another loft. Tell that Fancier for me I said "*THANK YOU VERY MUCH!"* I am truly grateful for bringing my bird back to knock off. Thats what I call good sportsmanship and sadly not every clubs members treat strays with the respect to return them back to their competition. 

Having said that it seems my "Kid Rock" was busy chasing them little hens in the other guys loft. Looks to me he should be in the later C races until he learns to get the "woo" off his mind and return to his own loft.


----------



## conditionfreak

COV 100 will make it back to the loft.

He just called me and said that it is indeed beautiful country out there and he is enjoying it. Looking around and taking in the sights. He wants me to send him some money via Western Union, so that he can spend a little time in Vegas.

He also said that there are some "funny" pigeons hanging aorund the roof tops of San Francisco Not sure what he meant by "funny".

He is a chip off the ole block.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Well at least my last place bird came in by itself. It knows how to get home without following everyone else.


----------



## Crazy Pete

Well now if you look at The List you will see that last place is all mine. grrr
Dave


----------



## conditionfreak

On my 400 OB race yesterday, I think there was a bit of bad luck.

The scuttlebutt was that there were only a handful of day birds. Several flyers had no birds on the day. A hen that was given to me by a quitting flyer in Virginia, clocked at 9:10 pm on race day, (yes, in the dark). Sunset was listed as being 8:26 pm. The AU rules are, one half hour after sunrise and one half hour after sunset.

So, since this hen was clocked 44 minutes after official sunset (it was not dark at 8:26 pm, but it was dusk for sure), this bird will officially be listed as being clocked the next morning, one half hour after sunrise. 

I believe that is correct. Anyone know for sure? I won't know for sure for a couple of days.

P.S. The other three old birds came in today.


----------



## Josepe

Anymore birds in today Tom ?


----------



## Thunderbird Racing

JaxRacingLofts said:


> Looking at the list it seems my bird JAX 2618 trapped in another loft.


or it had to walk back for lack of feathers when my bird past it up!


----------



## JaxRacingLofts

Thunderbird Racing said:


> or it had to walk back for lack of feathers when my bird past it up!


Actually, I think my bird found an unattended field of "California Green" and hooked up with the Pamela Anderson of "California Birds". Maybe he decided this other person's loft was his new Playboy Mansion. There just might be something to why Tom likes California Birds...my bird seems to prefer them too.


----------



## Flapdoodle

We had two more show up yesterday. Still out four that we sent. We could still get them back. 

The guy who did the release Saturday did take some video. It is open country where he realesed the birds. All the releases will be about the same just flatter. So depending on the race our birds will fly miles of open desert until they reach the border with the mountains and trees. Hope you can open the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9L3llcXQKg


----------



## Flapdoodle

The guy who released the birds for the club is Tristen Wells. He is currently excepting birds for a yearling race he started last year. Here are the details: 
http://www.showtimeoneloft.com/

You send late hatches and he races them next spring. He took the video for me so here is a plug for his race.


----------



## blongboy

Flapdoodle said:


> We had two more show up yesterday. Still out four that we sent. We could still get them back.
> 
> The guy who did the release Saturday did take some video. It is open country where he realesed the birds. All the releases will be about the same just flatter. So depending on the race our birds will fly miles of open desert until they reach the border with the mountains and trees. Hope you can open the video:
> 
> http://www.flipshare.com/view.aspx?nRecipient=&nFrame=NjY2RjhEODUtQTdENS00QjgyLUI0NzgtRTE0NTREOTI3N0I0&nMedia=RUZGODZENUMtNTgzQy00MUI4LUE1M0EtQUI0ODZEQURGNzAw&emailThumbnail=single&nT=


it said i had to login to watch it


----------



## Flapdoodle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9L3llcXQKg

This should work


----------



## Crazy Pete

Thanks for the video tom. Well I had the last bird in and I still have the last bird in. There should be some kind of award for last bird. lol
Dave


----------



## rackerman

*Thanks Tom and your co-partner for the video!! Boy, I can't wait till Saturday!! I am happy my birds are still in!! Thank you Walt for helping me out here! 
Walt, PLEASE do the race next year...... *


----------



## NayNay

kbraden said:


> And the winner tonight is....











LOL- that is awesome-


----------



## Josepe

Thanks Tom.Which two birds returned from the missing list?


----------



## kbraden

That's the same driver who releases birds for Steve @ Sierra Ranch, or Mr Au if you will 
It is definately something to see, all the birds released looks like a swarm of bees in the sky! Thanks for the video Tom!


----------



## Crazy Pete

Josepe the last 2 in the yellow yours and mine both say late next to them so we still have 2 birds each.
Dave


----------



## Josepe

Thanks I didn't see that.Yea two birds are better then one.Just hope they don't get lost again.


----------



## Crazy Pete

Lets hope they learned a lesson by themselfs for an extra day.
Dave


----------



## Flapdoodle

JaxRacingLofts said:


> Looking at the list it seems my bird JAX 2618 trapped in another loft. Tell that Fancier for me I said "*THANK YOU VERY MUCH!"* I am truly grateful for bringing my bird back to knock off. Thats what I call good sportsmanship and sadly not every clubs members treat strays with the respect to return them back to their competition.


Steve is the flyer that brought your bird to knockoff. Your bird along with a few others that are not in our group were brought to knockoff as well.



kbraden said:


> That's the same driver who releases birds for Steve @ Sierra Ranch, or Mr Au if you will
> It is definately something to see, all the birds released looks like a swarm of bees in the sky! Thanks for the video Tom!


The trailer behind the truck that released our birds is Steve's. Tristen released the birds for The Sierra Ranch Classic after ours.

If you are interested in a great one loft event, over a tough course, you couldn't go wrong with Steve's race. He is our club president, as Jax pointed out is an example of good sportsmanship. Unfortunately we will all see over the course of the season he really knows pigeons!

Here is a link to his race if your interested: 

http://srclassic.com/


----------



## MaryOfExeter

That'd be great if I had the money  That's the only reason I'm able to participate in this race, haha.


----------



## Flapdoodle

Xueoo said:


> Is mr. 2nd place au flying light or dark?


Steve @ Sierra Ranch flies a little of both. It is a system that Alex Bieche came up with. http://biechelofts.com/

The birds are under lights so they drop their flights, then the lights are removed and they go through a body molt. They are raced with the sexes separated. I think this could be real easy to mess up and would not recommend it with out buying the DVD or working with someone else that knows what they are doing. 

Steve does excellent with YB and has phenomenal results. If I recall in OB his results are not the same. Still good but he does not give the rest of the club the beating we get in YB. I think he had one first in OB this year, a few times in top 10%.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Personally, I'd rather suck in YB and beast in OB, but that's just me. So I just take it naturally.


----------



## Flapdoodle

We picked up another 3 birds this morning. I was hoping when I saw 51 birds in the clock that some of the MIA birds from Saturday made it back. All three were from other lofts. That makes 6 squatters in the loft. I singled tossed two of them today before our birds and they both flew back to my loft. One does not have a band. I need to go through our bird list and make sure it is not one of our MIA birds where a band has been cut off.

I listed the trapping order from the toss on the list. It was just a short toss and does not mean anything other then to give me an idea of the fast trappers and who is late.


----------



## Josepe

Keep on comin'(only in the Races) LL 1003 AND LL 1006


----------



## Gnuretiree

Flapdoodle said:


> We picked up another 3 birds this morning. I was hoping when I saw 51 birds in the clock that some of the MIA birds from Saturday made it back. All three were from other lofts. That makes 6 squatters in the loft. I singled tossed two of them today before our birds and they both flew back to my loft. One does not have a band. I need to go through our bird list and make sure it is not one of our MIA birds where a band has been cut off.
> 
> I listed the trapping order from the toss on the list. It was just a short toss and does not mean anything other then to give me an idea of the fast trappers and who is late.


That would be a shame if the bird turns out to be one from your loft that somebody cut the band off. It is great of you to take the effort to try and ID the pigeon. How do you intend to do it? Watch the Prettiest Bird video? 

Hugh


----------



## bbcdon

I have a dumb question, as I am too lazy to look at every post on this topic. What are the tentative dates of the races?


----------



## Josepe

First race is Aug 27th.


----------



## kbraden

Hey Tom, were the races & stations Lovelock (27th), Imlay (3rd) Winnemucca (10th), Elko (17th) or did I miss something? Thanks!


----------



## bbcdon

Josepe said:


> First race is Aug 27th.


Thank you for the reply.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

My stinkin bird keeps getting last place. All it has to do is fly up to the clock. Can't understand what takes it so long.


----------



## Flapdoodle

kbraden said:


> Hey Tom, were the races & stations Lovelock (27th), Imlay (3rd) Winnemucca (10th), Elko (17th) or did I miss something? Thanks!


Fernley 117 miles
Lovelock 177 miles
Imlay 203 miles
Winnemucca 233 miles
Valmy 253 miles
Carlin 300 Miles
Battle Mtn 258 Miles
Elko 318 Miles

Races start Saturday with Fernley. Then each Saturday after that. Race series is eight weeks. Our birds were at least 110 miles last Saturday with the club.


----------



## kbraden

Flapdoodle said:


> Fernley 117 miles
> Lovelock 177 miles
> Imlay 203 miles
> Winnemucca 233 miles
> Valmy 253 miles
> Carlin 300 Miles
> Battle Mtn 258 Miles
> Elko 318 Miles
> 
> Races start Saturday with Fernley. Then each Saturday after that. Race series is eight weeks. Our birds were at least 110 miles last Saturday with the club.


Holy Smokes! I didn't realize it was that many  Will definately be a good season.


----------



## Josepe

Tom,

Are the first 30 birds from the toss you posted to the sheet the ones that'll be going to the A and B races Sat. now or what?


----------



## Flapdoodle

Josepe said:


> Tom,
> 
> Are the first 30 birds from the toss you posted to the sheet the ones that'll be going to the A and B races Sat. now or what?


I am not sure who will be sent. It is still a work in progress. The toss yesterday and today will take back seat to the toss last Saturday. I sorted the list based on Saturdays toss. I am treating these like they are my birds and how I would pick my entries normally. The plan is to toss our birds with another loft tomorrow. I will take the results of that toss plus Saturdays toss and try to make a decision on which birds to send. I listed the past two days tosses just to get an idea of how fast birds are trapping. If I was going to pick who to send today I would look at the results from all three tosses. Without the toss tomorrow I would probably bump one of the later arriving birds the past two days and bump up a bird that trapped first today and third yesterday but was not in the top 30 (was 32) from Saturday.


----------



## rackerman

*Thanks for the update Tom...*


Flapdoodle said:


> I am not sure who will be sent. It is still a work in progress. The toss yesterday and today will take back seat to the toss last Saturday. I sorted the list based on Saturdays toss. I am treating these like they are my birds and how I would pick my entries normally. The plan is to toss our birds with another loft tomorrow. I will take the results of that toss plus Saturdays toss and try to make a decision on which birds to send. I listed the past two days tosses just to get an idea of how fast birds are trapping. If I was going to pick who to send today I would look at the results from all three tosses. Without the toss tomorrow I would probably bump one of the later arriving birds the past two days and bump up a bird that trapped first today and third yesterday but was not in the top 30 (was 32) from Saturday.


----------



## rackerman

Tom, When does Cov 32 get his chip ring? He will still be raced, right?


----------



## Flapdoodle

hillfamilyloft said:


> My stinkin bird keeps getting last place. All it has to do is fly up to the clock. Can't understand what takes it so long.


Well your bird was tossed today. She has been flying with the group around the loft. It was only 25 miles. The birds trapped and I was missing a few in the clock. One was yours. GFTG 107. While I was feeding a couple of others trapped. I changed the water fed everyone and was heading to the house I saw a group of about ten birds. Which was strange because I was only out 1 that I knew of. They circle and your bird drops from the group and traps right in. The others circle again then take off. Your bird was last for reals this time. The injury looks pretty good. I plan to bench her tomorrow and Saturday and then toss her three times next week with the other birds and see how she does. 

Your other entry 108 did not clock in this morning. I am thinking the clock did not pick it up. We had 32 birds trap real quick, I will check tonight.


----------



## Flapdoodle

rackerman said:


> Tom, When does Cov 32 get his chip ring? He will still be raced, right?


I plan to get to the club early Friday to get chip rings put on COV 32 and A_Smith's GFTG 112. With COV 32 he will get a chip ring and most likely go to the C Race. 

I have not talked to Allen but I am thinking I will hold his bird out Saturday. It has been gone 12 days. He is nice and fat and I am sure been in another loft but I want to toss it with just our birds a few times before he gets mixed up with the combine birds.


----------



## rackerman

*Ok, Thanks Tom!*


Flapdoodle said:


> I plan to get to the club early Friday to get chip rings put on COV 32 and A_Smith's GFTG 112. With COV 32 he will get a chip ring and most likely go to the C Race.
> 
> I have not talked to Allen but I am thinking I will hold his bird out Saturday. It has been gone 12 days. He is nice and fat and I am sure been in another loft but I want to toss it with just our birds a few times before he gets mixed up with the combine birds.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Flapdoodle said:


> Well your bird was tossed today. She has been flying with the group around the loft. It was only 25 miles. The birds trapped and I was missing a few in the clock. One was yours. GFTG 107. While I was feeding a couple of others trapped. I changed the water fed everyone and was heading to the house I saw a group of about ten birds. Which was strange because I was only out 1 that I knew of. They circle and your bird drops from the group and traps right in. The others circle again then take off. Your bird was last for reals this time. The injury looks pretty good. I plan to bench her tomorrow and Saturday and then toss her three times next week with the other birds and see how she does.
> 
> Your other entry 108 did not clock in this morning. I am thinking the clock did not pick it up. We had 32 birds trap real quick, I will check tonight.


Its always the case when you breed birds for others those birds do better then yours do. Hope 108 makes it back. He is working hard to get on the C team.


----------



## A_Smith

Flapdoodle said:


> I plan to get to the club early Friday to get chip rings put on COV 32 and A_Smith's GFTG 112. With COV 32 he will get a chip ring and most likely go to the C Race.
> 
> I have not talked to Allen but I am thinking I will hold his bird out Saturday. It has been gone 12 days. He is nice and fat and I am sure been in another loft but I want to toss it with just our birds a few times before he gets mixed up with the combine birds.


I beleive a few more good tosses will help GFTG 112. Don't want ya to get charged for the extra luggage weight. When s/he is ready and less fat send to the races. Thanks for the great news of the return.


----------



## PigeonVilla

hillfamilyloft said:


> Its always the case when you breed birds for others those birds do better then yours do. Hope 108 makes it back. He is working hard to get on the C team.


 Oh shoot and I was gonna see if I could buy some of your excess birds off you too at some point, now Im at a loss lol . Just kidding


----------



## hillfamilyloft

PigeonVilla said:


> Oh shoot and I was gonna see if I could buy some of your excess birds off you too at some point, now Im at a loss lol . Just kidding


The two for Ace with His blood and the two for Josepe are doing better then my two. With the losses so far and the Hawk issue, I am surprised that all six were around this long. Mark's two and 1003 have Mark's 801x836 blood crossed in with my blood. Two are siblings from my pair that went AWOL MIA. Seems to also be the trend with me, that my good bird are from birds I loose. I also lost the hen to the third bird to a snake. Just my luck. Hope a few of the six do well so I can assess the blood line and the crosses. Working hard on a family that wins. I do have 30 late hatches that I am settling. I will be putting some up for auction for breast cancer again this year. Will sell a few more for breeders come Sept or Oct. Also have 95 flying in ABQ that I will be able to bring some back and we may sell a few.My goal is for them to pay for their feed. At this rate I may not make the first race with one and the second race with the other.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

PigeonVilla said:


> Oh shoot and I was gonna see if I could buy some of your excess birds off you too at some point, now Im at a loss lol . Just kidding


You may also not want to buy anything if they don't start showing their worth.


----------



## PigeonVilla

hillfamilyloft said:


> You may also not want to buy anything if they don't start showing their worth.


 Well I still like your birds records in the long run and past records so you never know you still might be hearing from me soon enuf .


----------



## MaryOfExeter

PigeonVilla, I have two and a half pairs from Randy in my breeding loft. Next spring I could send you some YBs from them if you'd like


----------



## g0ldenb0y55

Thanks for the updates Tom!

My remaining bird isn't doing so well either with the short distances. I may need to ask Tom to put a whip on him to get his butt in gear! 

Good luck to all!


----------



## kbraden

Hey folks, Tom updated the list again for this mornings toss.


----------



## conditionfreak

Looks to me like MTP 1442 from southtown racers may be the bird to beat.


----------



## Flapdoodle

I updated the list. The color code is purple in the A race, green in the B race, blue is C race. When I basket and handle the birds at the loft I may bench a bird or if I get a bird that tells me they want the A or B race I reserve the right to move things around. This is the plan for tomorrow night. 

The c race birds for the first two weeks will be special club races with the results going to the AU not just "trainers". They will have a little tougher time then the others due to the fact that a few lofts will have 65 birds to our and most the other lofts 15-18 birds.


----------



## Josepe

"Looks to me like MTP 1442 from southtown racers may be the bird to beat"

It ain't over til it's over.We'll know Sat.Good luck to all.


----------



## bbcdon

I can't wait. My first race in 27 years!!!


----------



## hillfamilyloft

My pics for Saturday are GFTF 110 and MTP 1442. I think they will come in a bunch and the win will go the fast trappers.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Bo Ho I will not have a bird in the first race but I am rooting for Josepe and Ace. Hope the team gets points.


----------



## Josepe

Thanks Randy.


----------



## loonecho

conditionfreak said:


> Looks to me like MTP 1442 from southtown racers may be the bird to beat.


Xueoo's "slum bird" looks like it will compete as well.

Jim


----------



## blongboy

both of mine are in A race ....cant wait


----------



## rackerman

*I just can't wait.........*


bbcdon said:


> I can't wait. My first race in 27 years!!!


----------



## Crazy Pete

Good luck to all, looks like mine are going to have to strap on a jet pack just to stay in the c race. I expected a lot more from 11333 my rc, both parents and grand parents are all AU champion birds. 
Dave


----------



## Thunderbird Racing

hillfamilyloft said:


> I think they will come in a bunch and the win will go the fast trappers.


I hope you are right! although one of my slowest trapping hens was my race winner last week, on the drop and straight in....race day proved to be a whole new ballgame for me.


----------



## Josepe

Could be some surprising results tommorrow,with the birds somehow senseing it's the Real Thing.


----------



## Flapdoodle

hillfamilyloft said:


> Its always the case when you breed birds for others those birds do better then yours do. Hope 108 makes it back. He is working hard to get on the C team.


108 came home this morning or last night. I pulled him from the group to an individual cage. He is a little off. Not sure what's up. I will keep an eye on him and keep you posted.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Excited for the race! Our season starts 9/18


----------



## First To Hatch

MaryOfExeter said:


> Excited for the race! Our season starts 9/18


Wow really its my third race this week lol


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Yep. We were going to start 9/11 but a lot of people are behind due to the weather and such. Our "combine" (or whatever you want to call it) is very laid back and simple, to make it more fun. We start after the first week of september anyway so we don't have to skip a week for opening day of dove season.


----------



## rackerman

I just want to wish everyone GOOD LUCK Tomorrow.....


----------



## bbcdon

rackerman said:


> I just want to wish everyone GOOD LUCK Tomorrow.....


I will second that!!!


----------



## Josepe

Randy,
Good to hear 108 returned.Hope he gets straightened out and in the Groove for the rest of the races.


----------



## Timber

Good Luck Everyone!  I know Im partial to OCALA-1082 I bred and sent in for WEST. 1082 should do fine as his/her Dam dominated the B Series races for me prior to going to the stock loft. For us here, the B race is usually always a faster race, so it will be good to see how all the birds do. 

Tom, dont delay on posting the results......LOL


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Flapdoodle said:


> 108 came home this morning or last night. I pulled him from the group to an individual cage. He is a little off. Not sure what's up. I will keep an eye on him and keep you posted.


Sounds like the thing to do. Thanks for the heads up. May just be from being out a few days. Do what you need to do to protect the others. May have gotten hawk hit also. At least he came home.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

How did you decide who goes on the race and who goes as a trainer?


----------



## Josepe

A little confused.Seems there's some birds with slower trapping times going to the A and B races over some birds with faster trapping times going to the C.Guess I just don't understand the selection process.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Josepe said:


> A little confused.Seems there's some birds with slower trapping times going to the A and B races over some birds with faster trapping times going to the C.Guess I just don't understand the selection process.


That's what I was thinking...


----------



## blongboy

becky tom have color which birds go where already...and josepe they may trap fast ..but its a short toss ..sso maybe they come home together. the farer the race goes we'll know how thing change


----------



## MaryOfExeter

I know, but what we are saying is if he is basing the cut on the fastest trappers, then some of them don't make sense.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Keep in mind that Flap told us that he is going to treat the team like it was his own. He is handling the birds and is there. I am sure that all our birds will be in the A and B race at some time in the season. Also The GFTG birds will probably be in the three average speed races for the bucks. Also with losses they will all see the A and B baskets as long as they show their worth. In the end the cream will rise to the top. 
Only one suggestion I would make is to try and get at least one bird from each fliers in the A or B race. Assuming we have birds that can fly at the time. Flap Becky wants a bird in the race.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

OH I see how they are now. It is based on the training race trapping order. Don't know why I didn't see that earlier.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Flap if you want to hold 107 and 108 back for the GFTG races that is fine with me. They need to get healty if they can. Hate for you to loose the chance for money sending them too soon. They have not flown well enough to get anything but C team as of yet anyway. Put 108 on 4 and 1 for a week see if he will perk up. Sometimes I think you can burn injured or off birds out pushing them too hard. Your choice to hold them back is a wise one. Thank you for putting the birds first for us.


----------



## bbcdon

Excuse my ignorance, but what is the difference between the A, B, & C race?


----------



## Xueoo

hillfamilyloft said:


> Flap if you want to hold 107 and 108 back for the GFTG races that is fine with me. They need to get healty if they can. Hate for you to loose the chance for money sending them too soon. They have not flown well enough to get anything but C team as of yet anyway. Put 108 on 4 and 1 for a week see if he will perk up. Sometimes I think you can burn injured or off birds out pushing them too hard. Your choice to hold them back is a wise one. Thank you for putting the birds first for us.


Those birds will have to earn their way onto the A race for the GFTG races. From how things are shaking up, looks like those two won't make the money, as the first qualifying race is the 2nd race. Don't see how they can bump the whole B team and make it to the A team in a week without having flown in head to head competition.


----------



## Xueoo

bbcdon said:


> Excuse my ignorance, but what is the difference between the A, B, & C race?


A and B races count towords AU points. The C race doesn't, but, in this case, it will for the first two races. After the first two races, they are "trainers" only with no AU points earned.

A, B, C races are released at separate times, usually 30 minutes apart with the A first.


----------



## Crazy Pete

The difference is that only so many birds can go to each race from each loft, 15 or 20 that keeps it fair for the guy that only has 20 birds from the guy that has 60 birds. If a bird has not proven its worth, like my LNC 11333 it goes to the c race, A and B count for points, champion bird, or champion loft. You want to send a bird that has a chance of winning to the A or B.
Dave


----------



## bbcdon

Xueoo said:


> A and B races count towords AU points. The C race doesn't, but, in this case, it will for the first two races. After the first two races, they are "trainers" only with no AU points earned.
> 
> A, B, C races are released at separate times, usually 30 minutes apart with the A first.


Thank you for the reply


----------



## bbcdon

Crazy Pete said:


> The difference is that only so many birds can go to each race from each loft, 15 or 20 that keeps it fair for the guy that only has 20 birds from the guy that has 60 birds. If a bird has not proven its worth, like my LNC 11333 it goes to the c race, A and B count for points, champion bird, or champion loft. You want to send a bird that has a chance of winning to the A or B.
> Dave


Thank you also


----------



## SouthTown Racers

Great luck to everyone in this race and everybody else flying birds this weekend!!


----------



## blongboy

*i can't wait ..i guess i'll just stay on the site and refresh it every 4 min till i see the result *


----------



## PigeonVilla

MaryOfExeter said:


> PigeonVilla, I have two and a half pairs from Randy in my breeding loft. Next spring I could send you some YBs from them if you'd like


Becky will let you know at the end of the year ,thanks for the offer .


----------



## hillfamilyloft

PigeonVilla said:


> Becky will let you know at the end of the year ,thanks for the offer .


Becky is giving away all my good birds. The two pair that were sent her way are some nice birds. They should make good babies.


----------



## PigeonVilla

hillfamilyloft said:


> Becky is giving away all my good birds. The two pair that were sent her way are some nice birds. They should make good babies.


 I think most your birds turn out to be nice birds from what I have seen so far lol keeping my options open.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Xueoo said:


> Those birds will have to earn their way onto the A race for the GFTG races. From how things are shaking up, looks like those two won't make the money, as the first qualifying race is the 2nd race. Don't see how they can bump the whole B team and make it to the A team in a week without having flown in head to head competition.


You never know the way things are going 107 might be ready next week, 108 might just need some food and drink. Also the way things are going birds can be lost tomorrow. I just hate a GFTG band go to waste. Flap should get something for his efforts. The more GFTG bands in the race the better his chances. I also did not know that GFTG races were so quick. Don't want them sent if they are not ready. Just go for a good showing in one of the races then.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

PigeonVilla said:


> I think most your birds turn out to be nice birds from what I have seen so far lol keeping my options open.


Don't know if I would go that far but I hope they all have the potential to be good. Having a bit of bad luck in the PT race with my entries. Hope the four for Ace and Josepe do something.


----------



## jpsnapdy

Flapdoodle said:


> 108 came home this morning or last night. I pulled him from the group to an individual cage. He is a little off. Not sure what's up. I will keep an eye on him and keep you posted.


You are doing everything right Tom,* Hats off to you!*
Me, I would hate having to race birds I have not bred!
Good luck to everyone for this first race!
Wishing at least one of our birds will win and that the others fill the top 10% slots, ha ha ha!


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Xueoo said:


> Those birds will have to earn their way onto the A race for the GFTG races. From how things are shaking up, looks like those two won't make the money, as the first qualifying race is the 2nd race. Don't see how they can bump the whole B team and make it to the A team in a week without having flown in head to head competition.


With a little more thought I think you are right, one sick in a box and the other bummed up it don't look so good for 177 miles next weekend. They must fly all three races to win. That leaves only 8 GFTG birds with a chance. You, Blong, Ace, Becky, and A_Smith are the banded birds left, 9 birds. Would love to see them all go A race next week to give Flap a chance at some bucks to get some training money. I say put them all in the A race next weekend to give him a chance. May not matter we only have 20 reserves with a race tomorrow. 105 and 112 might not get there, but Becky's birds are flying well and should move up. The other's look worthy.


----------



## Xueoo

hillfamilyloft said:


> With a little more thought I think you are right, one sick in a box and the other bummed up it don't look so good for 177 miles next weekend. They must fly all three races to win. That leaves only 8 GFTG birds with a chance. You, Blong, Ace, Becky, and A_Smith are the banded birds left, 9 birds. Would love to see them all go A race next week to give Flap a chance at some bucks to get some training money. I say put them all in the A race next weekend to give him a chance. May not matter we only have 20 reserves with a race tomorrow. 105 and 112 might not get there, but Becky's birds are flying well and should move up. The other's look worthy.


I think the best may be for the birds to get healthy and hopefully win something in the club and combine later on. Pushing them and they could be gone. 

Besides, the payout on the GFTG is only to the 1st-4th place average speed finishers so the chances of a PT bird winning is slim. 

Maybe Tom may want to hold onto some of the surviving birds and fly old birds next year and try again, as it looks like there is a rollover to old birds.


----------



## Flapdoodle

bbcdon said:


> Excuse my ignorance, but what is the difference between the A, B, & C race?


The combine has an A and B race with 15 bird limits. The club has voted to have a C race. The AU allows the club two special races that will go up on the AU database. The first two "C" races this week and next week are club races with results going to the AU. They are unlimited one loft sent 69 birds, another had 40+. Most lofts have around 15-20. I think we had 20, I left my basket list at the club. The birds in the C race will have a little tougher time then the other birds just based on the numbers but also the temp. The releases are an hour apart. 7:00, 8:00, 9:00. It is going to reach high 90's by the afternoon. The A race birds will be racing in lower temp then the C race.



hillfamilyloft said:


> Flap if you want to hold 107 and 108 back for the GFTG races that is fine with me. They need to get healty if they can. Hate for you to loose the chance for money sending them too soon. They have not flown well enough to get anything but C team as of yet anyway. Put 108 on 4 and 1 for a week see if he will perk up. Sometimes I think you can burn injured or off birds out pushing them too hard. Your choice to hold them back is a wise one. Thank you for putting the birds first for us.


I held back GFTG 112, 107, 108. 112 is healthy and looks great I just want to make sure he knows our loft is home as he was out 12 days at another loft. I will toss him three or four times next week. I really don't think 107 will make the races. The wound is healing, feathers are growing in but he won't be ready next week. 108 I am not sure about. It might make sense to pull them and take a crack at the $2,000 as yearlings. 108 still may be able to race but I am not sure.


----------



## Flapdoodle

blongboy said:


> *i can't wait ..i guess i'll just stay on the site and refresh it every 4 min till i see the result *


No soccer tomorrow. I should be here. I will post the trapping order as soon as I can on the list. I will scan in the overall results after knock off and get them up hopefully Saturday night. Knock off is at 4:00.


----------



## Flapdoodle

MaryOfExeter said:


> OH I see how they are now. It is based on the training race trapping order. Don't know why I didn't see that earlier.





MaryOfExeter said:


> I know, but what we are saying is if he is basing the cut on the fastest trappers, then some of them don't make sense.


100% based on the training race. Exceptions were our stray (which is one of the best birds in the loft in my opinion, watch out for AUB 201) and the other AUB 64 bird that no one in the forum sponsored. I just figured I bump them this week to get a few other PT birds in the hunt. Also GFTG 108 was in the top 30 in the training race but he is sitting out this week.

The other three tosses I listed were just for some info. It is more handler error then anything when the birds on the first two short tosses are trapping a few minutes apart. They all come in together they are not trained to trap real fast. That is my fault not the birds 

As the races get longer the cream will rise to the top regardless of my handling.


----------



## jpsnapdy

Flapdoodle said:


> 100% based on the training race. Exceptions were our stray (which is one of the best birds in the loft in my opinion, watch out for AUB 201) and the other AUB 64 bird that no one in the forum sponsored. I just figured I bump them this week to get a few other PT birds in the hunt. Also GFTG 108 was in the top 30 in the training race but he is sitting out this week.
> 
> The other three tosses I listed were just for some info. It is more handler error then anything when the birds on the first two short tosses are trapping a few minutes apart. They all come in together they are not trained to trap real fast. That is my fault not the birds
> 
> As the races get longer the cream will rise to the top regardless of my handling.


The cream will rise to the top alright. AUB 67 looked a bit too high strung for me. Wonder what happened to the Keyhole 402 RC, hawk-bait maybe? but you had a winner there. I expect the black splash will show her worth as the distance increases.
Let's keep our fingers crossed...


----------



## ace in the hole

Good luck all.

I see both of my birds traped a little later on the last toss than they had been. They must be saving it for the race.


----------



## kbraden

Morning weather update: Not sure how todays race will go, I am 30 miles east of the release point and woke up at 6:30 to clouds, haze & rain! It's 9:30 now and the rain stopped around 8am, but still very cloudy & hazy towards the west. There is also a wildfire burning slightly north, causing a smoke screen. Currently 70 degrees.

http://www.accuweather.com/us/radar/sir/nv_/radar.asp


----------



## Flapdoodle

rackerman and walt are on the list of people I want to kill someday. I promised my wife I would do whatever she wanted around the house if I got a bird before 10:00. COV 33 trapped solo like a bullet a few minutes before 10:00. Historically that is a good time for my loft position, will see at knockoff. 

Congrats guys on the first A bird!


----------



## blongboy

so are all the A race bird home yet?


----------



## Flapdoodle

We are in for a tough day. No other birds yet. Check the list and I will update when I can.


----------



## dogging_99

Dang! I'm on pins and needles, I keep hitting the refresh button still no show, good Luck to all.


----------



## rackerman

*Wow, thats GREAT!! Tom, PLEASE don't kill us till the race and house work is done....
Whats up with Cov 32, still no chip ring?? Just curious. 
Keep up the great job!*


Flapdoodle said:


> rackerman and walt are on the list of people I want to kill someday. I promised my wife I would do whatever she wanted around the house if I got a bird before 10:00. COV 33 trapped solo like a bullet a few minutes before 10:00. Historically that is a good time for my loft position, will see at knockoff.
> 
> Congrats guys on the first A bird!


----------



## Xueoo

Looks like mine made it. Nice and consistant. Good luck to all that haven't trapped yet.


----------



## rackerman

*That's really awesome. I told Cov 33 that I am working tonight and did not want to wait till after work to see how he did, so he said, he would trap before I went to work, just to keep me from worrying...*


Flapdoodle said:


> rackerman and walt are on the list of people I want to kill someday. I promised my wife I would do whatever she wanted around the house if I got a bird before 10:00. COV 33 trapped solo like a bullet a few minutes before 10:00. Historically that is a good time for my loft position, will see at knockoff.
> 
> Congrats guys on the first A bird!


----------



## Flapdoodle

Sorry Eriduardo I said your bird was in 2nd in the 1st race. The 2nd bird was blong boy GFTG 113. Your bird has not trapped yet. I was entering those on my phone and it was little tough to keep in straight. 

Congrats to our first birds!

A race COV 33, B race AVC 1105, C race GFTG 105. 

No more updates until after knockoff. Don't hate me... 

Our first bird back in all 3 races should be pretty good, but we will have to wait until knockoff. 

B race looks pretty good. Not sure what is up with the A birds, rain, raptor, who knows...

Keep your fingers crossed for the rest of the birds.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

I guess 3rd is okay. I hope the others come home!


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Hope those birds get you some points in the club and combine. Congrats to the 1st Place birds. Don't know if I like having a A B C race. Hard to tell how they would do against each other. More people look good though. See where they showed up a knockoff. Chances are the guy to beat will have bigger drops.


----------



## kbraden

MaryOfExeter said:


> I guess 3rd is okay. I hope the others come home!


3rd is very good Becky! I think the others stopped at Cabellas for directions!


----------



## hillfamilyloft

MaryOfExeter said:


> I guess 3rd is okay. I hope the others come home!


Good enough to earn a spot for next weeks A and B team. Only 20 birds ahead of it and 18 were released 1/2 to an hour before. Good job in my book. 105 and 1006 that were ahead of 115 both have Warren's blood. Smith blood likes this course. 
Nice job Happy on 1-2 in the B race. Thinking Cov 33 is the bird of the day coming in by itself in what seems to be a tougher race with the weather. Hope we get the rest in. Every week is different. No birds seem all that consistent yet. I predict a few will soon find there groove.


----------



## jpsnapdy

Congrats to the breeders of the winners and the handler.


----------



## conditionfreak

Congrats rackerman. That's one!

I just love this sentence: 

"COV 33 trapped solo like a bullet a few minutes before 10:00. Historically that is a good time for my loft position, will see at knockoff."

It is a long season though. rackerman, enjoy the win. They don't come very often against this kind of competition.

Freakin awesome!


----------



## hillfamilyloft

conditionfreak said:


> Congrats rackerman. That's one!
> 
> I just love this sentence:
> 
> "COV 33 trapped solo like a bullet a few minutes before 10:00. Historically that is a good time for my loft position, will see at knockoff."
> 
> It is a long season though. rackerman, enjoy the win. They don't come very often against this kind of competition.
> 
> Freakin awesome!


Conditionfreak did you breed Cov 33? If so what is it off of?


----------



## conditionfreak

Will respond later. Off to my second race club to ship our first young bird race.

Still waiting for my old birds from the first race club. 300 miles with the wind in their face. North east winds and we fly from the southwest. No one has birds yet in my club. I fly 338 I think. Thank goodness for electronic clocking.


----------



## ace in the hole

Good job GFTG 105 

I'm just hoping GFTG 106 comes in.....

Good job COV 33

As for AVC 1105 and 1108 it is truly a "happy" day.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Ace had a good showing GFTG 105 won the C race and Josepe's second bird was off his 620 bird i bred to Tiger my Flor Engels bird.


----------



## First To Hatch

Geeze no birds in CA and no birds in NY, what a bad day


----------



## Josepe

CONGRATS TO ALL THE WINNERS.

Atleast 1006 came good today and will move up to A or B next week.
Hope 1003 makes it back,and the others also.


----------



## blongboy

Tom GFTG 113 looks like a hen ..am i right?


----------



## ace in the hole

hillfamilyloft said:


> Ace had a good showing GFTG 105 won the C race and Josepe's second bird was off his 620 bird i bred to Tiger my Flor Engels bird.


UPC 620 is half sister to YORK 836.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

ace in the hole said:


> UPC 620 is half sister to YORK 836.


836 is Granddam of 105, so those birds are related.


----------



## Timber

Waiting for the Official Results is killing me....LOL


----------



## Flapdoodle

Timber said:


> Waiting for the Official Results is killing me....LOL


I am working on getting the printouts up but I am having scanner issues. I believe I will get results emailed tonight or tomorrow. ONce I do I will post them. We are not great but not terrible. 

A race COV 33 was 17th pigeon, 4th loft out of 165 birds 11 lofts

B race AVC 1105 was 35th pigeon, 7th loft out of 165 birds 11 lofts

C race GFTG 105 was 46th pigeon, 5th loft out of 236 birds 10 lofts

Early next week we will get the combine results and see what birds scored points. 

I will update the list as of 3:20 this afternoon.


----------



## Thunderbird Racing

congrats to the winners!!


----------



## kbraden

Well done folks! 
I am going to guess that the 10 birds with no placement number are still MIA? Hope they make it back safely, still got another 90 minutes til dark.


----------



## Josepe

Did all birds make it back?


----------



## JaxRacingLofts

Whew!... I'm glad my bird did not get love struck and try to "shack up" with those California birds again. 
I doubt "Mr AU" aka your club president would be too happy seeing my bird in his loft  

Congratulations to the winners of todays races..good job Tom getting the birds ready and maybe next week we will see some new race winners


----------



## Crazy Pete

To the winners a big CONGRATS, to the rest of us loosers hang in there the season is far from over. Tom when you hand out the peanuts give my birds ration to COV 33, AVC 1105 and GFTG 105 they earned it.
Dave


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Josepe said:


> Did all birds make it back?


I hope so!


----------



## Crazy Pete

Still 5 birds from the A race and 5 birds from the C race.
Dave


----------



## SouthTown Racers

You know, I voted for the "one loft race aproach", but Im glad we ended up doing it this way....this will be months of fun! I cant wait to see the times. Did I miss it or was there any drops on the 3 races? Congrats to the winners!!


----------



## conditionfreak

Crazy Pete said:


> To the winners a big CONGRATS, to the rest of us loosers hang in there the season is far from over. Tom when you hand out the peanuts give my birds ration to COV 33, AVC 1105 and GFTG 105 they earned it.
> Dave


You sly fox you. Trying to get the other guys birds fat by pretending you want to reward them for their 1st placements.

I'm on to you. 

It's 11:23 pm. Just got back from shipping young birds. I only sent two to a 150 mile race being held tomorrow (Sunday).

My old bird clocked at 5:03 pm from the 300 mile race today (Saturday). I wasn't home. I left to ship young birds at 5 pm 

My old bird has apparently won the club. Probably not the combine though. Many bad reports being told by phone. I sent three old birds to the race and only have the one home. The last one I expected of the three. 

But a club win is a win! Another club diploma to type up. (yep, I'm the guy that makes the diplomas)


----------



## Crazy Pete

You sly fox you. Trying to get the other guys birds fat by pretending you want to reward them for their 1st placements.

I'm on to you. 

LMAO
Dave


----------



## Southwing

Congrats to the winners!!!


----------



## Southwing

I moved from SC to IN about 3 months ago, the PT race will be my only race for the year. I have good friend thats going to take care of my pigeons for a while til i can find a place to race from, I hope it doesnt take to long.


----------



## jpsnapdy

Hi guys,
Congrats to the winners and Tom once again!
I suppose 99 next to the bird's result means it was back after race time?
Will we be getting the birds' velocity, wind and weather, etc ?


----------



## jpsnapdy

Flapdoodle said:


> I held back GFTG 112, 107, 108. 112 is healthy and looks great I just want to make sure he knows our loft is home as he was out 12 days at another loft. I will toss him three or four times next week.


I'd have said if in very good health, send anyway... I once had a BB lost 21 days come back in top form and win the 200 two days later with a 25mn lead. I think when they're back home after some days, their orientation is better than the others'. Just my 2pence.


----------



## ace in the hole

hillfamilyloft said:


> Ace had a good showing GFTG 105 won the C race and Josepe's second bird was off his 620 bird i bred to Tiger my Flor Engels bird.


Randy /* hillfamilyloft *even though his two birds didn't race still had a good day as well. The 1st and second place C birds may have been bred from some of my best stock but it was crossed with Randy's stock and Randy is the breeder. We give credit where credit is due. Good job Randy.


----------



## rackerman

*Me TOO!! I am speachless with excitment...*


conditionfreak said:


> Congrats rackerman. That's one!
> 
> I just love this sentence:
> 
> "COV 33 trapped solo like a bullet a few minutes before 10:00. Historically that is a good time for my loft position, will see at knockoff."
> 
> It is a long season though. rackerman, enjoy the win. They don't come very often against this kind of competition.
> 
> Freakin awesome!


----------



## jpsnapdy

rackerman said:


> *Me TOO!! I am speachless with excitment...*


Understandably so! Enjoy!


----------



## rackerman

*Thank you...*


jpsnapdy said:


> Understandably so! Enjoy!


----------



## conditionfreak

We have lost well over one thrid of the birds entered already, and we have only had one race. The shortest race.

I don't know if that is typical for that area, but I do know it is about the results I get here.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

ace in the hole said:


> Randy /* hillfamilyloft *even though his two birds didn't race still had a good day as well. The 1st and second place C birds may have been bred from some of my best stock but it was crossed with Randy's stock and Randy is the breeder. We give credit where credit is due. Good job Randy.


LL 1003 is still AWOL out of the birds I bred and my two who knows. Don't be mad guys that GFTG 106 is racing next week above a few other birds. When Flap sent the GFTG bands out I told him I wanted it to be a joint band where if the bird won the prize would be shared. So 106 is flying for feed money for Flap and beer money for Ace. The GFTG birds have to fly next week to be eligible. My two GFTG bands were also supposed to be flying for Flap also, but they have elected to sit out. Don't really blame them with all the hawks out, the heat, and the weather. Maybe if he wants to fly old birds they can stay and try for the old bird prize. Recoup some expense money. Probably have a better chance not flying against light manipulated young birds. If we keep loosing birds, bumping birds may become a non issue. I say send all the GFTG banded birds to the A race if they are able. Give the members who invested in the bands a chance to win. Bump those birds for the others on the non GFTG races unless they are at the top. Would work if the C training race got weight in the final scoring.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

ace in the hole said:


> UPC 620 is half sister to YORK 836.


I wanted to send birds for Ace and Josepe that would also have Warren's Yorkie blood in them. Since he was so generous this year not to let us beat him in the race. 620 is full Warren blood, making LL 1006 half. GFTG 105 and LL 1003 are 1/4 Warren and GFTG 106 is 1/8 his blood. After Godzilla Ice won last year I figured regular colored birds with Warren's blood would have a good chance to win.


----------



## kbraden

I am going to guess that the 30 birds with stars are going to be racing A/B next week, and the ones with no stars are in C?


----------



## Josepe

That's the way I'm guessing it also.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

My other bird will be home, I'm sure. I'm pretty confused as to why it isn't there but the other one is. But that's okay. Probably got mixed up with someone else or may even be sitting on someone else's loft secretly. That happens to me a lot. The birds come home weeks or even months later in better condition than they were went I sent them out  And he's a mighty purdy bird so I don't blame people for wanting to keep'em


----------



## Happy

*Happy Day*



ace in the hole said:


> Good job GFTG 105
> 
> I'm just hoping GFTG 106 comes in.....
> 
> Good job COV 33
> 
> As for AVC 1105 and 1108 it is truly a "happy" day.


Thanks Ace, Good to have birds competing this yr. in PT Race as last yr. mine were lost in training. Same birds, just a different Mothers. Hope these two get to race all the way through, as we have to have a little luck to do this as we all know. AVC 1105 older brother won 1st club & 2nd overall 395 Concourse last OB's with 3,800 birds at a 200mi.. 1108 older sister also got 2nd overall in OB's as well & one of the best short distance birds I have ever had. 2010 OB's was my best season or close to in my many yrs. of racing. I only breed 4 pr. of breaders & a few out of OB race team after season is over as I only fly OB's in the last 5 yrs. Hope all birds from this 1st. race return... Happy


----------



## kbraden

Race Reports for 8/27 as listed with AU:

http://pigeon-ndb.com/race_reports.php?Org=Auburn%20RPC&DateRace=0&season=2011yb

It would be nice to have the times that all our birds arrived, at Tom's place.


----------



## Josepe

Thought Flap said the first two C races were Special races and the results would be listed on the AU site also? Howaboutcha Flap? If you're still having scanner problems kbraden posted the results.They were on the AU site as of last night.


----------



## rackerman

*Thank you.....*


kbraden said:


> Race Reports for 8/27 as listed with AU:
> 
> http://pigeon-ndb.com/race_reports.php?Org=Auburn%20RPC&DateRace=0&season=2011yb


----------



## Timber

Josepe said:


> Thought Flap said the first two C races were Special races and the results would be listed on the AU site also? Howaboutcha Flap? If you're still having scanner problems kbraden posted the results.They were on the AU site as of last night.


Yeah?


----------



## Crazy Pete

Well at least I still have 2 birds. I think I'm giong to have to have the rc's dad send him an email to le him know that he is going to disgrace the family name. At this rate it will be an AU CHUMP not CHAMP. lol
Dave


----------



## Xueoo

Crazy Pete said:


> Well at least I still have 2 birds. I think I'm giong to have to have the rc's dad send him an email to le him know that he is going to disgrace the family name. At this rate it will be an AU CHUMP not CHAMP. lol
> Dave


Don't forget to tell'm it ain't Kansas...er, Nebraska no more...


----------



## Flapdoodle

*Club Results*

A Race

B Race

C Race

Combine results should be available Wednesday.


----------



## Big T

Thanks, Flap. 80th place 11:00:56 118.873 miles 1156.172 YPM Not too bad for a white bird with no real breeding other than to be white.

Thanks for all you do,
Tony


----------



## Crazy Pete

Xueoo said:


> Don't forget to tell'm it ain't Kansas...er, Nebraska no more...



That must be the problem, they are still looking for The Yellow Brick Road. I think those flying monkies " hawks "are going past your birds and scaring mine .
Dave


----------



## Flapdoodle

Josepe said:


> Thought Flap said the first two C races were Special races and the results would be listed on the AU site also? Howaboutcha Flap? If you're still having scanner problems kbraden posted the results.They were on the AU site as of last night.



Check out the C results you will see why they are reluctant to post to the AU unless you are Steve Sterchi . He really gave us a beating. I am confident they will still be posted. This C race is new for us this year and they are still working out the bugs. 



kbraden said:


> Race Reports for 8/27 as listed with AU:
> 
> http://pigeon-ndb.com/race_reports.php?Org=Auburn%20RPC&DateRace=0&season=2011yb
> 
> It would be nice to have the times that all our birds arrived, at Tom's place.


Thanks for posting! The AU only posts birds in the points or the first bird to clock for the loft. I should be able to get the full results like the ones I posted the day after the race.


----------



## Flapdoodle

conditionfreak said:


> We have lost well over one thrid of the birds entered already, and we have only had one race. The shortest race.
> 
> I don't know if that is typical for that area, but I do know it is about the results I get here.


I would say our losses are higher then a typical loft for my area. The guy I train with banded 65 and is now at 43 (Big Dogs in the results). I suspect most the other guys are about the same. 

He was out three at knock off. Two trapped last night the third came in this morning. He did get 100% returns for the weekends race. We are still out 3 birds. Those marked with a 99 trapped race day after knockoff. 999 Trapped the day after the race.


----------



## conditionfreak

It's funny. COV-33 wins the "A" race and its nest mate gets lost on the same race.

Pigeon racing involves a lot of luck. Good and bad.

Forrest Gump would of said: Pigeon racing is like a box of chocolates. You put your hand in and pick one, and you just don't know what you are getting.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

conditionfreak said:


> It's funny. COV-32 wins the "A" race and its nest mate gets lost on the same race.
> 
> Pigeon racing involves a lot of luck. Good and bad.
> 
> Forrest Gump would of said: Pigeon racing is like a box of chocolates. You put your hand in and pick one, and you just don't know what you are getting.


GFTG 105 wins the C race its nest mate LL 1003 not back yet. Pigeon racing is a crap shoot. Hopefully next week we will get something consistent out of this bunch. Strange race series thus far and we are only to the second race.


----------



## rackerman

*Walt, Cov 33 won the A race. I hope Cov 32 shows up*


conditionfreak said:


> It's funny. COV-32 wins the "A" race and its nest mate gets lost on the same race.
> 
> Pigeon racing involves a lot of luck. Good and bad.
> 
> Forrest Gump would of said: Pigeon racing is like a box of chocolates. You put your hand in and pick one, and you just don't know what you are getting.


----------



## conditionfreak

Yep. #33. I'm half senile and half..................................................what was I talking about?..........


----------



## Josepe

Hard to figure how birds fly as a flock,are released together and some make it back and some don't.But as Randy said it's a Crap Shoot.I've heard of Hawks snatcing birds from a flock also.


----------



## JaxRacingLofts

Thanx for posting the race reports thats cool and it helps put all the details into perspective. 
I also noticed Sierra Ranch had huge amounts of birds on the drop and originally I suspected his loft was heavy with the Leen Boer strain of birds but then I looked at his website http://www.srclassic.com/index.htm and he is also running a one loft race with alot of the top names in the sport competing. 
This will be great at the end of this race series to see how our birds stack up against entries directly from Clausing, Ganus, Hitchinson the list is long and it looks like they have over 500 birds in their One Loft Race series...but I thought I would share this because we as PIGEON TALK are going up against some heavy hitters. Good Luck to everyone for next week and I hope we all get our missing birds back.


----------



## Josepe

Yea Heavy Hitters is right,and it would be wishful thinking.Though I've always sad there's some Exceptional birds perched in some little back yard lofts in this Country.But the high prices of competition in the bigger races keeps the little guy from proofing them.


----------



## Gnuretiree

Just for the record, I'd like to say that I think Flap is doing a great job - and once the dust settles and life gets back to normal for him, he may need to do this again next year just to keep his head clear. 

Hugh


----------



## kbraden

JaxRacingLofts said:


> Thanx for posting the race reports thats cool and it helps put all the details into perspective.
> I also noticed Sierra Ranch had huge amounts of birds on the drop and originally I suspected his loft was heavy with the Leen Boer strain of birds but then I looked at his website http://www.srclassic.com/index.htm and he is also running a one loft race with alot of the top names in the sport competing.
> This will be great at the end of this race series to see how our birds stack up against entries directly from Clausing, Ganus, Hitchinson the list is long and it looks like they have over 500 birds in their One Loft Race series...but I thought I would share this because we as PIGEON TALK are going up against some heavy hitters. Good Luck to everyone for next week and I hope we all get our missing birds back.


Steve is entering his own personal birds in this race with us. He isn't flying the birds entered personally by Ganus, Clausing, etc... in the club race with our birds. Those are entered in his private one loft race only. The only "heavy hitters" we are going against is Steve's personal birds.


----------



## First To Hatch

Has anyone ever had nest mates both be good birds?


----------



## Timber

Flapdoodle said:


> A Race
> 
> B Race
> 
> C Race
> 
> Combine results should be available Wednesday.


Have they been removed? When I click the links, only the C Race comes up. Both A and B states the page does not exists....?


----------



## kbraden

Timber said:


> Have they been removed? When I click the links, only the C Race comes up. Both A and B states the page does not exists....?


I can open them no problem.


----------



## jpsnapdy

kbraden said:


> I can open them no problem.


So can I !

Help ! If the C or H after the colour indicates the sex of the bird : Are we racing ONLY HENS ?


----------



## Matt Bell

Not likely, a lot of combines don't worry about sex in youngbirds and just enter them all as either C or H. The combine I used to fly in didn't even try to separate the youngbird races when shipping them.


----------



## conditionfreak

To hard to tell with young birds, what their sexes are. Besides, they all go into the same basket at race time, so it doesn't matter.

With old birds, they need to be in separate baskets. Especially if a flyer or three is flying widowhood. That would really mess them up.

Speaking of which. I just found out a club down this way, banned the widowhood system. Seems one guy was kicking butt in the races and he was using widowhood. The rest voted to ban its use.

Unbelievable!

Next thing you know, they will vote to ban sending old birds to the races when they have babies in the nest.


----------



## Crazy Pete

First To Hatch said:


> Has anyone ever had nest mates both be good birds?



Rotondo says that one is a flier and one is a breeder, they can both be good just one is better. I've even red some of the notes by Hietzman and he says the same thing.
Just wondering when COV 32 comes back if you should put it in the breeders loft instead of racing it.
Dave


----------



## ace in the hole

conditionfreak said:


> To hard to tell with young birds, what their sexes are. Besides, they all go into the same basket at race time, so it doesn't matter.
> 
> With old birds, they need to be in separate baskets. Especially if a flyer or three is flying widowhood. That would really mess them up.
> 
> Speaking of which. I just found out a club down this way, banned the widowhood system. Seems one guy was kicking butt in the races and he was using widowhood. The rest voted to ban its use.
> Unbelievable!
> 
> Next thing you know, they will vote to ban sending old birds to the races when they have babies in the nest.


I will bet the widowhood system was not the only reason he was winning. He will probably still keep kicking their butts.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

First To Hatch said:


> Has anyone ever had nest mates both be good birds?


I had my DRO 820 and DRO 821 out of the same pair be fantastic racers as well as breeders. Both won races and both bred good birds. One of my best breeding hens now is off 820. The pair that bred these two Ed and Charlotte has bred me many good young birds. Some pairs are like that. This would be my Golden Pair. I also have siblings from this pair both breed me winners.


----------



## Flapdoodle

kbraden said:


> Steve is entering his own personal birds in this race with us. He isn't flying the birds entered personally by Ganus, Clausing, etc... in the club race with our birds. Those are entered in his private one loft race only. The only "heavy hitters" we are going against is Steve's personal birds.


I think a good % of Steve's birds are from Alex Bieche. No doubt they are great birds but at this point that does not have much to do with the beating he is giving us. It really is a handler issue not the birds. That is one of the many variables you get in racing in the club/combine versus one loft.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

If only there were still clocking limits.


----------



## drifter

How long was race one and how long will the next race be?


----------



## hillfamilyloft

MaryOfExeter said:


> If only there were still clocking limits.


I agree with bird limits, but if a guy can enter 20 birds in a race and take the first 20 places he/she just kicked your butt. I think clocking limits let birds not deserving of points get them. Without bird limits you might put a bird limit of say 20 to take unfair advantages out from the mod fliers. 
I think the true issue here is manipulating the environment to win young bird races. Raising early young birds and using light and dark. You either come to a decision as a club not to allow it or you do it also to even the playing field. We have the same issues in Albuquerque. The lofts with the big drops are working a system. The spotty finishers are not. If you want to win you need to play the game. I fly with guys that have no clue about clipping wings or light or dark. When I win a race flying with them, I know the bird is special. Not only did it beat all the other birds it beat the system. If flap wins a race or even gets a top 10 that bird is special COV33 in my book is a quality bird. 17th is a nice position in a club with manipulators. Also ahead of the others was steller.


----------



## First To Hatch

hillfamilyloft said:


> I had my DRO 820 and DRO 821 out of the same pair be fantastic racers as well as breeders. Both won races and both bred good birds. One of my best breeding hens now is off 820. The pair that bred these two Ed and Charlotte has bred me many good young birds. Some pairs are like that. This would be my Golden Pair. I also have siblings from this pair both breed me winners.


Ahhh I see, this is my first year only and I'm just noticing that of all the nest mates it seems like for the most part I lost one of them, but the other is still here and looking good. Same with the PT race the sibling to my PT grizzle that got lost is getting in the top 10% on the race sheet here, and the sibling to my BB who is doing not so good would of gotten 12th if she had trapped in for me when she came home.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

First To Hatch said:


> Ahhh I see, this is my first year only and I'm just noticing that of all the nest mates it seems like for the most part I lost one of them, but the other is still here and looking good. Same with the PT race the sibling to my PT grizzle that got lost is getting in the top 10% on the race sheet here, and the sibling to my BB who is doing not so good would of gotten 12th if she had trapped in for me when she came home.


You got me thinking. From last years race team I sent 15 sets of siblings. Out of those only 2 sets had siblings that both flew top 10% races. Both of those pairs also had top 10 birds. 9 of the 15 had top 10% finishes by at least one bird. I will track it this year and see what I end up with. Kind of like Warren said, not all birds are good even from your best pairs. I think if you select pairs that breed both siblings as good birds you are on the right track. Also selecting the winners from each pair and crossing them in might increase your chances. This year I have 45 sets of siblings flying. You may have just came up with the sibling theory of selection. I have been bringing back birds with multiple top 10% finishes or wins to the breeding loft. May think about their siblings if they also fly top 10%.


----------



## kbraden

Flapdoodle said:


> I think a good % of Steve's birds are from Alex Bieche. No doubt they are great birds but at this point that does not have much to do with the beating he is giving us. It really is a handler issue not the birds. That is one of the many variables you get in racing in the club/combine versus one loft.


Ok, I may have read it wrong originally. I thought the post Jax made was meaning that the birds sent to the Sierra Ranch race by Clausing, Ganus, etc... were the same birds that Steve entered into our race. That was why I said we weren't racing the top dogs. No doubt he has some premium blood tho in his personal birds.
(does that make any sense? LOL)


----------



## hillfamilyloft

GFTG 105 and LL 1003 just flipped. 1003 was the better trainer while 105 stunk in training. Come race day the opposite. 1003 is not even home yet. Anyone else flying siblings?


----------



## Crazy Pete

Flapdoodle said:


> I think a good % of Steve's birds are from Alex Bieche. No doubt they are great birds but at this point that does not have much to do with the beating he is giving us. It really is a handler issue not the birds. That is one of the many variables you get in racing in the club/combine versus one loft.


You say a handler issue, if its lack of training due to family and work then it is what it is. If its some thing else lets put our heads togeather and find a solution, its time to teach this Steve a lesson.
Dave


----------



## JaxRacingLofts

kbraden said:


> Ok, I may have read it wrong originally. I thought the post Jax made was meaning that the birds sent to the Sierra Ranch race by Clausing, Ganus, etc... were the same birds that Steve entered into our race. That was why I said we weren't racing the top dogs. No doubt he has some premium blood tho in his personal birds.
> (does that make any sense? LOL)


Thanx for clearing that up for me. I thought maybe we (as Pigeon Talk) was racing against some bloodlines that have won the South African Million Dollar Race. 
As far as whatever system (most likely Bieche) Sierra Ranch is using I say good for them. In my humble opinion that takes real skill to train all those birds to come in on the drop like that. I like the idea of tough competition it forces one not to take anything for granted and focus on every detail. 
All things being equal this is was only the first race..lets see if the birds step it up at the longer distances.


----------



## kbraden

JaxRacingLofts said:


> Thanx for clearing that up for me. *I thought maybe we (as Pigeon Talk) was racing against some bloodlines that have won the South African Million Dollar Race. *
> As far as whatever system (most likely Bieche) Sierra Ranch is using I say good for them. In my humble opinion that takes real skill to train all those birds to come in on the drop like that. I like the idea of tough competition it forces one not to take anything for granted and focus on every detail.
> All things being equal this is was only the first race..lets see if the birds step it up at the longer distances.


Had I sent birds from my other breeding pair, you would have been racing with blood that won the SA Million $ Race  but I sent those babies + another bird to race in Florida


----------



## drifter

Flapdoodle said:


> Fernley 117 miles
> Lovelock 177 miles
> Imlay 203 miles
> Winnemucca 233 miles
> Valmy 253 miles
> Carlin 300 Miles
> Battle Mtn 258 Miles
> Elko 318 Miles
> 
> Races start Saturday with Fernley. Then each Saturday after that. Race series is eight weeks. Our birds were at least 110 miles last Saturday with the club.


I guess I missed this post, now I know the answer to my question.


----------



## rackerman

*NO WAY.......*


Crazy Pete said:


> Rotondo says that one is a flier and one is a breeder, they can both be good just one is better. I've even red some of the notes by Hietzman and he says the same thing.
> Just wondering when COV 32 comes back if you should put it in the breeders loft instead of racing it.
> Dave


----------



## Josepe

Curious,does anyone have birds in this race down from Clausing's Houbens?


----------



## Crazy Pete

NO WAY Lets here more
Dave


----------



## bbcdon

Josepe said:


> Curious,does anyone have birds in this race down from Clausing's Houbens?


I don't have any Clausen Houben's in any races this year, but I do have one that is in the Showtime Late Hatch race. Next year, I plan on sending them to the Sierra Ranch Classic, the Showtime Late Hatch, and Winners Cup.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Please tell me my bird is home and you just haven't updated the list yet.


----------



## ace in the hole

Josepe said:


> Curious,does anyone have birds in this race down from Clausing's Houbens?


My GFTG 105's grandfather is Clausing Houben. His grandmother is a full sister to the million dollar race winner.


----------



## conditionfreak

hillfamilyloft said:


> GFTG 105 and LL 1003 just flipped. 1003 was the better trainer while 105 stunk in training. Come race day the opposite. 1003 is not even home yet. Anyone else flying siblings?


I sent siblings. Both are lost, but one was an accident on the landing board, so that doesn't really count as not being a good homer/racer. It was a freak accident that was no fault of the bird.

mtripoh sent siblings and one is still there, with one lost.

rackerman sent siblings and one is still there (the race winner) and one is now lost.

Kind of something to think about.

I wonder if last years overall winner (Vanilla Ice) sent by Warren, had a sibling in the mix that got lost?


----------



## kbraden

I sent siblings, one is doing fairly well, the other needs a 5 hr energy drink & gps!


----------



## Crazy Pete

Come on rackerman, you know more than the masters lets here your take on it.
Dave


----------



## jpsnapdy

Crazy Pete said:


> NO WAY Lets here more
> Dave


Yes, I + that!
Let'shear more Russ! What's your experience with this?


----------



## rackerman

*Here it is.*


Crazy Pete said:


> Come on rackerman, you know more than the masters lets here your take on it.
> Dave


----------



## rackerman

*Here it is....*


jpsnapdy said:


> Yes, I + that!
> Let'shear more Russ! What's your experience with this?


----------



## NayNay

kbraden said:


> I sent siblings, one is doing fairly well, the other needs a 5 hr energy drink & gps!


 lol- Good one LOL


----------



## hillfamilyloft

ace in the hole said:


> My GFTG 105's grandfather is Clausing Houben. His grandmother is a full sister to the million dollar race winner.


GFTG 106 is also from the same bloodline one generation further away. 106 is 1/4 Houben/Smith, 1/4 Ikon/Magic star Ganus blood, 1/4 Flor Engels, 1/4 Bob Kinney/Vic Miller. On paper that bird has two million Dollar race winners, a world champion, a snow bird winner, Den31, Warren's Flamingo blood, a bunch of national ace winners in its bloodline and its Dam won a race for me. It better start flying better. 105 is virtually the same mix. The Houben x Warren blood has been flying well for us when crossed into different families.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Josepe said:


> Curious,does anyone have birds in this race down from Clausing's Houbens?


Josepe
My 801 blood on my webpage is Houben x Warren blood. Your lost 1003 is 1/4 Houben and sibling to Mark's 105 that won the C race. Sorry I sent him the better sibling. Hope it shows up. 1006 is just the Warren side crossed with my Flor Engels cock. Gets the red/silver color from Warren's Ludo bloodline. Dam is a big silver bird. Big in the middle like Warren. Ha Ha


----------



## hillfamilyloft

conditionfreak said:


> I sent siblings. Both are lost, but one was an accident on the landing board, so that doesn't really count as not being a good homer/racer. It was a freak accident that was no fault of the bird.
> 
> mtripoh sent siblings and one is still there, with one lost.
> 
> rackerman sent siblings and one is still there (the race winner) and one is now lost.
> 
> Kind of something to think about.
> 
> I wonder if last years overall winner (Vanilla Ice) sent by Warren, had a sibling in the mix that got lost?


Makes the theory of pulling one egg from the pair to make the remaining bird stronger not that realistic. What if you pull the better egg. Would like to see if a better percentage of one egg birds wins over siblings. I think we see a trend here of one good and one not so good with the siblings.


----------



## ace in the hole

hillfamilyloft said:


> GFTG 106 is also from the same bloodline one generation further away.



I look for 106 to start doing better from here on out. I think he learned a lot in this first race. At least I hope he did and does not want to do that again. No more following the other birds, just head for home boy. 

I think if Tom has a good talk with him he will be on the top of our race sheet this weekend.


----------



## Crazy Pete

Well I lost the nest mate to my 11333 this morning, if that means my 11333 is the good bird he better do something soon. lol
Dave


----------



## A_Smith

conditionfreak said:


> I wonder if last years overall winner (Vanilla Ice) sent by Warren, had a sibling in the mix that got lost?


Vanilla Ice did not have any babies at the time I needed to ship.  I had one egg hatch. and that baby is now missing from my loft.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

A_Smith said:


> Vanilla Ice did not have any babies at the time I needed to ship.  I had one egg hatch. and that baby is now missing from my loft.


Young hens sometimes take a bit to get going. She should produce you some good birds.


----------



## PigeonVilla

hillfamilyloft said:


> Young hens sometimes take a bit to get going. She should produce you some good birds.


 I have a hen that took me 2 years to find her the right cock bird to get her to even mate and want to lay her first egg, so maybe that bird is waiting for her mr right to get things started .


----------



## Flapdoodle

MaryOfExeter said:


> Please tell me my bird is home and you just haven't updated the list yet.


Sorry Becky  no bird yet.


----------



## rackerman

Tom, How about Cov 32?


----------



## Flapdoodle

Crazy Pete said:


> You say a handler issue, if its lack of training due to family and work then it is what it is. If its some thing else lets put our heads togeather and find a solution, its time to teach this Steve a lesson.
> Dave


I have given this some thought. Randy has already posted the solution. If you want to compete you have to control the molt like others are doing. I still have not seen the results form the combine. Of the flyers in my club three I know that "manipulate" as Randy said it the birds are Sierra Ranch, Falcone Loft, Windancer. The winner of the B race was KC Loft. He is 100% natural. Lofts flying natural or no light/dark system will get a race here and there but drops with multiple birds and the majority of the top positions will go to those that control the molt.


----------



## Crazy Pete

I wish I could control the molt, my loft isn't set up for that. I just give them more protein during the week, then extra fat on Thursday. and Friday.
Dave


----------



## jpsnapdy

Crazy Pete said:


> Well I lost the nest mate to my 11333 this morning, if that means my 11333 is the good bird he better do something soon. lol
> Dave


Probabilities say it could be one out of 4 possible combinations: GG-GB-BG-BB...


----------



## jpsnapdy

Flapdoodle said:


> Sorry Becky  no bird yet.


No Keyhole RC either ?


----------



## jpsnapdy

PigeonVilla said:


> I have a hen that took me 2 years to find her the right cock bird to get her to even mate and want to lay her first egg, so maybe that bird is waiting for her mr right to get things started .


I had one of those. Just had to let her chose her own mate, they then bred me a string of champion racers and breeders. Reaaly worth it! They never split, they would even stop breeding on their own, rest, moult. Headstrong hen! When the cock died, she observed a period of "mourning" then the next year, picked another mate, kept the same nest box, she was something! The maximum she would breed was four young every year but these were worth their weight in platinum.
It does make us look like fools trying to play god, though...


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Flapdoodle said:


> Sorry Becky  no bird yet.


Aw, that's okay. I have a feeling it will come in sometime in the season. Same thing for the other 2 that just went missing recently. Especially if people know what the GTFG bands mean. Maybe they trapped somewhere and the person wants to eliminate some competition  Like the time I lost an auction bird the week before the auction, then the race after the auction, it comes in like nothing ever happened.


----------



## conditionfreak

Yea, I have had missing birds come home after the season is over. In good shape, but missing their electronic bands.

Some guys....

At least they fed them and I am grateful for that.


----------



## Timber

MaryOfExeter said:


> Maybe they trapped somewhere and the person wants to eliminate some competition  Like the time I lost an auction bird the week before the auction, then the race after the auction, it comes in like nothing ever happened.


Ive had this happen to me as well! Even as far as them removing the elctronic chip......boy-o-boy was I pissed...to say the least!


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Flap 
You going to fly 107 or 108 in the trainer? Or are they going to be held back until old birds. I say if they can do it send them. If they are not good enough to make it back you don't want to feed them all winter to do lousy in old birds. If they are still injured reserve sit them out again.


----------



## NayNay

jpsnapdy said:


> I had one of those. Just had to let her chose her own mate, they then bred me a string of champion racers and breeders. Reaaly worth it! They never split, they would even stop breeding on their own, rest, moult. Headstrong hen! When the cock died, she observed a period of "mourning" then the next year, picked another mate, kept the same nest box, she was something! The maximum she would breed was four young every year but these were worth their weight in platinum.
> It does make us look like fools trying to play god, though...


Interesting.....I have wondered how their own choices would stack up vs our own. Due to misc circumstances- like lucking into some breeders when I didn't have close-up-able nestbox fronts yet, I have 4 babies right now from "love connection" birds. Plus a few others that are picking their own mates for the future- setting up nests together, preening each other, etc- may or may net get eggs- kinda hoping not, since I need to separate and be done with breeding- kind of the wrong time of the year. But, once I do reunite everyone, I have some definite "play God" plans- for birds I have peds on, as well as based on body type, etc. I will be very curious to see how they all do when lumped together. I guess ultimately if you have good birds, a little love connection vs the arranged marriages is a good thing to keep em happy. Seems like you can only do so much to push them on each other. As much as the boys prance around, some of the girls are just not impressed until they see "the one"


----------



## Flapdoodle

*Combine Results*

It is all one file. Average speed and Champion loft report are on the last few pages. 

Combine Report


----------



## Flapdoodle

hillfamilyloft said:


> Flap
> You going to fly 107 or 108 in the trainer? Or are they going to be held back until old birds. I say if they can do it send them. If they are not good enough to make it back you don't want to feed them all winter to do lousy in old birds. If they are still injured reserve sit them out again.


They have both been loft flying and went on the training tosses this week. I think they will both be going.


----------



## Flapdoodle

We had a short toss (50 miles) with another loft yesterday. Tony I am sorry but it appears our last white hope cracked under the pressure . He did not come in with the rest of the group and is MIA.


----------



## rackerman

I have to get ready to go to work, just want to wish everyone good luck tomorrow.
Tony, sorry to hear about your white bird.


----------



## SmithFamilyLoft

A_Smith said:


> Vanilla Ice did not have any babies at the time I needed to ship.  I had one egg hatch. and that baby is now missing from my loft.


 I don't know if it is just me or not, but my experience has been that hens which have been flown hard as YB's will sometimes have reproductive difficulties that first breeding season.


----------



## Crazy Pete

Good luck all, and COV 33 you need to pick up the pace just a little. Tom give the birds a good talking to promise them extra peanuts a bigger perch what ever it takes I would like to see you get champion loft.
Dave


----------



## conditionfreak

I predict that COV-33 will be 9th and 1st will go to MTP-1442.

If I'm right, I'm going to Vegas. 

If I'm wrong, I'm staying home.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Flapdoodle said:


> They have both been loft flying and went on the training tosses this week. I think they will both be going.


It is a shame that they did not make the A race to give you a chance at the GFTG bucks. Maybe you can make a deal with two A races to switch spots for a cut of the pie. Sitting out a week might just give them an advantage. Not fair I know but it is a shame that any of the GFTG birds that do not fly this weekend are out of the running. Just hoping the get it together. The club should bump the limit up so more GFTG birds can fly. I am sure some of the guys have more than 15 GFTG banded birds.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

I think GFTG 110 and GFTG 115 will be our top birds this week.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

hillfamilyloft said:


> I think GFTG 110 and GFTG 115 will be our top birds this week.


I hope so!


----------



## Crazy Pete

This race was to be about points, bragging rights, if a GFTG bird does not have what it takes there is no reason to bump. My bird don't seem to have what it takes to win and that is my bad luck. How do they say, thats racin. JMO
Dave


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Crazy Pete said:


> This race was to be about points, bragging rights, if a GFTG bird does not have what it takes there is no reason to bump. My bird don't seem to have what it takes to win and that is my bad luck. How do they say, thats racin. JMO
> Dave


Yep you are correct. Not so sure these two that are still in the fight don't have a chance though. One was hawk hit, the other a day late on one toss. They might just surprise us. Just bummed that they have not showed their worth enough to make the GFTG race. Being as they are racing for Flap. See if the turds can win a race or two.


----------



## Southwing

Are the birds racing saturday?

Thanks Southwing


----------



## Josepe

I look for some of the C team to come on in this race since they're moving up.I talked to 1006 in the locker room tonight on his pigeon phone and he said he was bringing it All in this race.


----------



## Crazy Pete

Well I guess we'll see soon enough, Tom is the only one that gets to handle the birds and he will put them where they need to be. If he thinks they are in shape and ready to race, so be it lets race.
Dave


----------



## Crazy Pete

Josepe where did you get that phone I think my birds need a good chewing out.
Dave


----------



## MaryOfExeter

And I need one with a GPS app so this one doesn't get lost too!


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Anybody awake yet. I bet Flap has soccer today. Results will probably be this afternoon. Watching your kids play soccer is almost as exciting as watching your birds come in. I have to help coach because sitting on the sidelines is too nerve racking. You stay too busy coaching to worry about things. Kind of like being race secretary.


----------



## conditionfreak

At my location it was 70 degrees for the release of a 300 mile young bird race. At 11 am it is 95 degrees. 12 noon was 96.5. 12:30 pm, it is 98.5. Birds still out.  I understand in Europe that they do not race when it is over 85 degrees.

The 500 mile old bird race is tomorrow, from Montgomery, Alabama.

I didn't send any to the 500 miler. I just can't do that to a pigeon. Gonna race young birds tomorrow with my second club. Young bird 150.

Hope it is cooler in California today.

EDIT: it is now 100.5 degrees at 1: pm 

I have read that scientists believe a pigeon needs to drink water every 90 minutes on hot days. Makes me wonder how many of our birds actually fly 300 miles without stopping for water more than once. We might be surprised someday when a continous real time tracking device is available to monitor our race birds. We all think that the winners fly straight through. When it may be that ALL of the birds stop to drink, two or three times on their way home. The winners might just be the birds that drink and leave. The late comers might be the birds that rest a few minutes, then leave. It would help expain some of the losses also. Ground predators or bad water (anti-freeze, oily water, etc).

EDIT: At 3: pm, no birds and it is 104.5 degrees in the sun. uh oh!


----------



## bbcdon

It is currently 79 degrees where Tom Lives, with a forecasted high of 99. The summit at Donner Pass is currently 50 degrees, with a forecasted high of 76.


----------



## bbcdon

Reno, NV is currently 55 degrees.


----------



## bbcdon

I don't think dove hunter's will be a problem, as they usually hunt on the valley floor near the grain fields, and Tom is probably around 2000-2500 feet in elevation.


----------



## bbcdon

bbcdon said:


> I don't think dove hunter's will be a problem, as they usually hunt on the valley floor near the grain fields, and Tom is probably around 2000-2500 feet in elevation.


I made a mistake. Newcastle, CA is 985 feet elevation.


----------



## Flapdoodle

No birds yet. I updated the list of who was shipped in what race. It is hot. 


Dove hunters are around. I could hear shots the past few mornings. A mile or so east your in the hills most the hunting is west in the fields. The birds should be fine as far as that goes.


----------



## rackerman

Wow, 4th is still pretty good!! I can't complain!!


----------



## Flapdoodle

*Congrats ACE and Josepe*

First two A race birds GFTG 106, 3 seconds later LL 1006. Check the list. I will update when I can.


----------



## rackerman

Congrats ACE and Josepe. I got 4th in A, still pretty good in my book.....


----------



## rackerman

*Try 4th Walt......*


conditionfreak said:


> I predict that COV-33 will be 9th and 1st will go to MTP-1442.
> 
> If I'm right, I'm going to Vegas.
> 
> If I'm wrong, I'm staying home.


----------



## blongboy

mines are late


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Congrats!


----------



## Xueoo

Mine is sucking...


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Ist that Duke of Earl/President goofy colored blood of Warren's that likes this course. Josepe's Red bird Silver two weeks in a row. Like that Cov 33 with 1st and 4th. See what the Happy birds do in the B. We are getting some front runners.


----------



## Flapdoodle

*Congrats HAPPY!! Back to back winner of the B race!!*

AVC 1105 1st
Vita King 785 2nd
SPO 703 3rd


----------



## rackerman

*Tom, When did Cov 32 come out of hiding? Glad to see he is back and racing!!*


Flapdoodle said:


> AVC 1105 1st
> Vita King 785 2nd
> SPO 703 3rd


----------



## hillfamilyloft

We go a front runner AVC 1105, good job.


----------



## luckyloft

AVC 1105 looks like one tough son of a gun. Congrats to the winners. Especially Happy. Jeff


----------



## mtripOH

Congrats to all winners! WTG Happy, with 2 wins! Very impressive! Holding my breath for COV 26! Hope he clocks in very soon!


----------



## jpsnapdy

Congrats to the winners. The cream has started rising to the top!


----------



## conditionfreak

That GFTG bird surprised me. I figured COV-33 would be there in the mix.

Congrats to the winners and runner uppers. 

I'm a little confused about the COV-32 info. When did he come back from MIA, and does he still need an electronic band?


----------



## jpsnapdy

Xueoo said:


> Mine is sucking...


I wouldn't say that!


----------



## conditionfreak

AVC-1105 needs to be in the "A" race. Two first place wins in the "B" race is outstanding.


----------



## Josepe

Thanks.1006 told me last night(read my post from then)that he was going to bring it All today.2nd isn't quite All yet but I'm sure satisfied.He's showing some consistency and finding his Groove and I beleive he'll get that Win yet.
Congrats to all the Winners, and others who's birds improved on this one.Congrats to Randy also on his breeding program.
BIG Congrats to happy!


----------



## hillfamilyloft

conditionfreak said:


> AVC-1105 needs to be in the "A" race. Two first place wins in the "B" race is outstanding.


I think it does not matter which race it is in for the prize. I think he is weighting the A and B the same. I think the C race counts for points this time, but next time I think it will be a trainer. I would think you split Happy's birds up one in each race to give him a chance to win them both. I think this race he was just giving the GFTG birds a chance to do something in the A race. I think only 3 races are GFTG races. 1105 should be winning in points.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Josepe said:


> Thanks.1006 told me last night(read my post from then)that he was going to bring it All today.2nd isn't quite All yet but I'm sure satisfied.He's showing some consistency and finding his Groove and I beleive he'll get that Win yet.
> Congrats to all the Winners, and others who's birds improved on this one.Congrats to Randy also on his breeding program.


This is only second through the trap. He was 3 seconds behind meaning he was on the drop and followed the other bird 1 2 3 in the trap. Just long enough to turn around and say, "We get the peanuts suckers". 1006 is a joint effort between Ace and Myself. His bird 620 off of Warren's stock and Tiger my Engels Cock. Tiger had a sibling that was 2nd at 200 in the Colorado Gold Rush in 2004. Mark's GFTG 105 is Tigers Great Grand Son. Tiger is one of those birds who's children and grand-children keep breeding winners. GFTG 106 that won last week is also his grand-child. He is a small barrel of a bird. Solid as they get.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Had them switched GFTG 106 was this week 105 was last week. Same blood crossed with mark's 801x836 blood. 106 was off my "Primavera" that was on the drop in my last years club win. She found a snake this year and is no longer with us.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Need to get me some of that Happy blood.


----------



## Crazy Pete

Congrats to the winners, Josepe 2 nd place 2 weeks in a row should I just pay you now? 
Are there not any c birds in yet? I just got home.
Dave


----------



## Josepe

Pete,
No,it ain't over til it's over.Anything can happen in the remaining races.Though I did tell you I Beleive in them birds.Although 1003 is still MIA


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Boooo 10th place


----------



## Happy

*Happy's Happy*



Flapdoodle said:


> AVC 1105 1st
> Vita King 785 2nd
> SPO 703 3rd


Thanks Flap & All for the Congrads!! 
Never thought I would get a Back to Back in this... Cograds to all in the A & B & C Race & the birds that were in the drop with them... Just great to be competing this yr. in the PT Race's. As most of ya know mine were lost in training last yr., so just got to watch. I have a Bro., or sister (nest mate) of AVC 1105 in an Oklahoma one loft race for later this yr.. Last yr. was the 1st time I put any to a one loft race.. Feels good, but we all know there is a lot more races to go, with more distance.... Thanks to ya All!!!. Happyhttp://www.pigeons.biz/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif


----------



## Timber

5th in the last race and now 6th in todays, atleast she is consistant....LOL

Congrats to the winners !!


----------



## bbcdon

My bird shows 20 with 2 other birds. What does that mean?


----------



## rackerman

*Thats just what I was Thinking....*


conditionfreak said:


> That GFTG bird surprised me. I figured COV-33 would be there in the mix.
> 
> Congrats to the winners and runner uppers.
> 
> I'm a little confused about the COV-32 info. When did he come back from MIA, and does he still need an electronic band?


----------



## MaryOfExeter

bbcdon said:


> My bird shows 20 with 2 other birds. What does that mean?


I'm thinking they probably came in after knocking off. OR perhaps they all came in on a drop and Tom didn't have the time to figure out who went in before the others.


----------



## PigeonVilla

MaryOfExeter said:


> I'm thinking they probably came in after knocking off. OR perhaps they all came in on a drop and Tom didn't have the time to figure out who went in before the others.


Im going with they came in after knock off time too , kinda like the 99 in the last race. Was a great race cant wait for next week .


----------



## Thunderbird Racing

Flapdoodle said:


> AVC 1105 1st
> Vita King 785 2nd
> SPO 703 3rd


Wow, looks like 785 is figuring it out.


----------



## conditionfreak

mtripoh. Your bird is coming on. Not a bad finish in the "C" race. I have a feeling it will get better as the season continues.

rackerman. Your birds are doing just fine. #33 is off to a slow start, but came home today after being MIA for several days (apparently). It probably learned it is a scary world at night, sitting in a tree or bush. I doubt it will want that to happen again.

#33 has "racked" up a decent record thus far. (Is that where the name "rackerman" comes from.)


----------



## Wingsonfire

Nice thread, I am enjoying reading it


----------



## Crazy Pete

Must have bean a late release for the c race, 11333 decided to wake up a little 5 th place. Now if he can show a little more improvement I my be in the running yet.


----------



## kbraden

Well it is getting late, any chance of an update on bird inventory before bedtime? Seems there are lot still unaccounted for and no update since early this afternoon.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Looked at the AU data base. We did much better this week.
A Race Points
10%
7th and 8th
20%
31st

B Race Points
10% 
9th
14th
20%
21st

Lets get Flap a win next week.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Sorry its dark. Happy was 8th in the B race. We are getting closer.


----------



## ace in the hole

ace in the hole said:


> I look for 106 to start doing better from here on out. I think he learned a lot in this first race. At least I hope he did and does not want to do that again. No more following the other birds, just head for home boy.
> 
> I think if Tom has a good talk with him he will be on the top of our race sheet this weekend.


*Did I call it or did I call it. * 

I am happy with 105 taking 1st in the C race last week and 106 taking 1st in the A race this week.

Really looking forward to next weeks races now.

Congrats to all who had birds place well.


----------



## jpsnapdy

Hmm! That black & white pretty bird ain't looking too good now!
Wonder if it's from a two day race bloodline. 
The stray is putting up a fight! Nice! Maybe I could endorse that one.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

ace in the hole said:


> *Did I call it or did I call it. *
> 
> I am happy with 105 taking 1st in the C race last week and 106 taking 1st in the A race this week.
> 
> Really looking forward to next weeks races now.
> 
> Congrats to all who had birds place well.


Only 2 minutes out, the PT birds are pushing for a win. Lets just hope the wings hold up. I have a cock bird that is molting so bad he only has two primaries. He can barely reach the perches. Its like restricter plate racing. Lets hope the birds alternate wing issues so we can keep one or two near the top every race.


----------



## Flapdoodle

bbcdon said:


> My bird shows 20 with 2 other birds. What does that mean?


I am having some problems with the clock. The power supply shut off. We had 6 birds trap while the clock was off. I marked those with 20. Regardless of what the results say we don't know what order those six clocked. I marked those that showed up after knockoff with a 99. We are still out 8 birds. Hopefully they show up in the morning. 

When I get the club email results I will post them. We did move up a little in both races.


----------



## kbraden

Maybe the birds stopped off at Burning Man in the NV desert this weekend, some weird hippie festival LOL http://www.ustream.tv/burningman


----------



## rackerman

*Yes, thats where Rackerman comes from...... I am pretty happy this far. I hope Cov 33 picks it up again. He is looking pretty good. I think Cov 32 has learned a lesson and is going to get smarter and better..*


conditionfreak said:


> mtripoh. Your bird is coming on. Not a bad finish in the "C" race. I have a feeling it will get better as the season continues.
> 
> rackerman. Your birds are doing just fine. #33 is off to a slow start, but came home today after being MIA for several days (apparently). It probably learned it is a scary world at night, sitting in a tree or bush. I doubt it will want that to happen again.
> 
> #33 has "racked" up a decent record thus far. (Is that where the name "rackerman" comes from.)


----------



## ace in the hole

Tom, Thanks for having that talk with GFTG 106 for me. Now if you could have a little talk with Josepe's LL 1006 and tell her to stop following my birds in on race day and just go for the win...


----------



## Josepe

Ace,
She'll be First to the peanuts next week.
Those top 10% ers on the AU site look Alot better this week.


----------



## ace in the hole

Josepe said:


> Ace,
> She'll be First to the peanuts next week.
> Those top 10% ers on the AU site look Alot better this week.


I said "she" because UPC 620 has produced more good racing hens than cocks. But in checking the color I was wrong. 620 is a silver hen bred to a blue so 1006 is from a color linked breeding. LL 1006 is a RC cock bird.

I also want you to know Josepe that I was really just being nice in my last post. 1006 may be the first bird to the peanuts next week but 106 will be the first one through the trap.


----------



## Josepe

Was just figuring if He is the first to the peanuts naturally he would be first through the trap.


----------



## ace in the hole

Josepe said:


> Was just figuring if He is the first to the peanuts naturally he would be first through the trap.


106 will just go for the water first and then maybe a few peanuts.


----------



## ace in the hole

Flapdoodle said:


> Fernley 117 miles
> Lovelock 177 miles
> Imlay 203 miles
> Winnemucca 233 miles
> Valmy 253 miles
> Carlin 300 Miles
> Battle Mtn 258 Miles
> Elko 318 Miles
> 
> Races start Saturday with Fernley. Then each Saturday after that. Race series is eight weeks. Our birds were at least 110 miles last Saturday with the club.


Just thought I would bump this back up for everyone.


----------



## loonecho

hillfamilyloft said:


> Looked at the AU data base. We did much better this week.
> A Race Points
> 10%
> 7th and 8th
> 20%
> 31st
> 
> B Race Points
> 10%
> 9th
> 14th
> 20%
> 21st
> 
> Lets get Flap a win next week.


For those of us who are completely new to racing, could someone explain what this means? I'm just a backyard homer flyer who likes colors but I am glad to see my NEPLS 1802 and NEPLS 1827 are still finding their way home. I just don't understand some of the lingo that you experience racers know so well. Another one that evades me is "on the drop" not sure what that is refering to. Thanks

Jim (loonecho)


----------



## ace in the hole

loonecho said:


> For those of us who are completely new to racing, could someone explain what this means? I'm just a backyard homer flyer who likes colors but I am glad to see my NEPLS 1802 and NEPLS 1827 are still finding their way home. I just don't understand some of the lingo that you experience racers know so well. Another one that evades me is "on the drop" not sure what that is refering to. Thanks
> 
> Jim (loonecho)


Jim,

What *Hillfamilyloft* listed are the birds that were in the top 10 and 20 percent of the birds in that clubs race. The 7th and 8th are 7th and 8th place in the club race. "On the drop" refers to more than one bird comming home from the race at the same time.


----------



## Thunderbird Racing

when we talk about on the drop, we are talking about the first group of pigeons to arrive and trap


----------



## hillfamilyloft

In the A race we had two birds in the top 10% that means in a race of say 160 birds we had two 16th place or above. 20% would be the birds 17 through 32. If you look at the race sheet you will see a 10% and 20% line. In other words they are faster than 90% of the birds. 
I put a lot of importance on the top 10% because this is where the good birds are. I think the four birds we had in the top 10% are as good as any birds this week. Flap is flying the natural system or just birds to perch with no Light or Dark to manipulate the molt. Others have an advantage. 
Also on the race sheet you can see minutes to win. Our A race birds were only 2 minutes to win and 3 seconds apart. When I select racers to the stock loft I either pick winners or birds that have multiple 10% finishes. These are the good ones. The 7th place bird for ACE was bred from our equal 1st place bird at 200miles in ABQ last year. 1006 the 8th place bird was off of two birds that have produced multiple 10% birds. So far this method I use for selection is working. Simpler put winners breed winners. I base my selection on top 10% birds because it takes some factors out of the equation. It takes away everything but performance from selection. It takes away loft advantage, flying on a system, etc. If you can get a bird in the top 10% that has a disadvantage such as loft position or not flying with a full wing, then it is a good bird. If 105,106 or 1006 at the end of the year show multiple 10% finishes then I would stock them. I would also stock the best bird in the PT loft. Chances are they would produce the same.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Most of the points if not all the points for the race are in the top 10%. So look for High points birds at the end of the year. These are the good ones that fly near the top most of the season. I think the best bird I have ever produced did not win. 330 flew 3rd, 4th, 4th, and 19th in 8 races against around 350 birds a race. He was flying natural out of a novice loft with bad loft position. I gave the flyer the bird and stocked his brother 329. 329 bred Mark's GFTG 105 bird that was first in the C race last week. 329 also had a top 10% finish when it races. Primavera the dam of GFTG 106 had a 2nd on the drop and a 21st last year so I stocked her. So far she is 1 for 1 for 10% babies with the rest starting the season next week. It takes a few years, but if you only stock top shelf birds and breed from those that produce top shelf birds your results will reflect it.


----------



## Crazy Pete

Breeding winners to winners is the best way although they don't always breed winners. The parents to my 11333 are AU champion birds and all 4 grand parents are AU champion birds, and sad to say if 11333 was my dads bird he would have allready bean culled.
Dave


----------



## kbraden

Have any of yesterdays MIA birds shown up today?


----------



## loonecho

Thanks for taking the time to explain some of this. It helps me understand much better.

Jim


----------



## Flapdoodle

kbraden said:


> Have any of yesterdays MIA birds shown up today?


We are still out 4 birds . I updated the list.


----------



## First To Hatch

Well I'm out my BBs nest mate up here so he better get going in CA


----------



## Thunderbird Racing

looks like the Show-Me state is making a decent showing...

nice job Matt!


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Crazy Pete said:


> Breeding winners to winners is the best way although they don't always breed winners. The parents to my 11333 are AU champion birds and all 4 grand parents are AU champion birds, and sad to say if 11333 was my dads bird he would have allready bean culled.
> Dave


There is some truth in this. My "Maverick" was a very good race bird, but his children have only been average to fair racers. Last year I needed a couple of cocks so I stocked a few of his children to see what they would do. They all produced good bird. Some produce better grand-children. I am still looking for the special hen for him. This year I am trying an 801 hen with him. Hope that hits. He is about to loose his bowl. As for his children, I would stock every one of them. That is the only reason he sits eggs.


----------



## mtripOH

conditionfreak said:


> mtripoh. Your bird is coming on. Not a bad finish in the "C" race. I have a feeling it will get better as the season continues.


Walt, what a sweet surprise! Josiah is all excited and tells everyone he sees just how great his bird is doing. I can not say it enough, but thanks for your help!
A bit off topic, but I have to share...Josiah placed second at our county fair in pigeon showmanship. He also got reserve champion with his pigmy pouter cock and 2 of his homers took 4th place. Also now have a local flier willing to come to our loft and help us out with a few issues we have been experiencing.


----------



## Crazy Pete

hillfamilyloft said:


> There is some truth in this. My "Maverick" was a very good race bird, but his children have only been average to fair racers. Last year I needed a couple of cocks so I stocked a few of his children to see what they would do. They all produced good bird. Some produce better grand-children. I am still looking for the special hen for him. This year I am trying an 801 hen with him. Hope that hits. He is about to loose his bowl. As for his children, I would stock every one of them. That is the only reason he sits eggs.


I may have to try them in the breeders loft, that is if it makes it through the season.
Dave


----------



## conditionfreak

mtripOH said:


> Walt, what a sweet surprise! Josiah is all excited and tells everyone he sees just how great his bird is doing. I can not say it enough, but thanks for your help!
> A bit off topic, but I have to share...Josiah placed second at our county fair in pigeon showmanship. He also got reserve champion with his pigmy pouter cock and 2 of his homers took 4th place. Also now have a local flier willing to come to our loft and help us out with a few issues we have been experiencing.


That is great. Tell Josiah congratulations on being a first rate pigeon dude.


----------



## Timber

Flapdoodle said:


> We are still out 4 birds . I updated the list.


How about uploading the club results...like you did last week.....LOL


----------



## Big T

My Bird 8463 has gotten out of the racing business and moved to sunny California. Got the call from a person over there. He released the bird a few times and it kept coming back. I said keep it.

Tony


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Big T said:


> My Bird 8463 has gotten out of the racing business and moved to sunny California. Got the call from a person over there. He released the bird a few times and it kept coming back. I said keep it.
> 
> Tony


Must of found love.


----------



## Flapdoodle

Timber said:


> How about uploading the club results...like you did last week.....LOL


Not sure what happened with the club results. I will have to check on it. 

Here is the combine report:

https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1SwxvIfuwGaRFkaUvyX1zSB00vrLG6jOrUFL99tT9Lco


----------



## conditionfreak

Flapdoodle, is there a brief explanation of how you decide which birds go to which races? A, B and C? Or is it now just A and B?

I thought I had it figured out, but now I am not so sure, with the new changes on "The List".


----------



## kalapati

hi tom, are some of our racers still moulting. just trying to find excuses (LOL) for i noticed SD 412's performance has gone south from being on top during the training. 



kalapati
San Diego

http://blubarloft.dyndns.biz:81/jview.htm


----------



## Crazy Pete

conditionfreak said:


> Flapdoodle, is there a brief explanation of how you decide which birds go to which races? A, B and C? Or is it now just A and B?
> 
> I thought I had it figured out, but now I am not so sure, with the new changes on "The List".



I wondered the same thing, I'm not sure 11333 deserves to be on the A list. 
I shouldn't complain, but the A list should be earned and he hasn't. JMO
Dave


----------



## rackerman

I Don't Understand Why COV 33 Was Moved To The B Race After Being 1st In The A Race & COV 32 WENT FROM C TO A?? This Is All New To Me, Does Someone Know Why?? I Am Not Complaining, Just Want To Understand....:d


----------



## Josepe

"Flapdoodle, is there a brief explanation of how you decide which birds go to which races? A, B and C? Or is it now just A and B?

I thought I had it figured out, but now I am not so sure, with the new changes on "The List"." 

Good Question???? Tom???


----------



## rackerman

*AFTER LOOKING AT BACK SHEETS I THINK IT WAS JUST A TYPO ERROR?? ALL I KNOW IS I AM CONFUSSED NOW.... TOM WAS IT A TYPO ERROR??*


rackerman said:


> I Don't Understand Why COV 33 Was Moved To The B Race After Being 1st In The A Race & COV 32 WENT FROM C TO A?? This Is All New To Me, Does Someone Know Why?? I Am Not Complaining, Just Want To Understand....:d


----------



## Flapdoodle

*Club Report*

https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1_0k6LGoaiM07Je3Eh1qeYXTlka27PYL6Rc5uqde3BAE

https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1wGV4_eD4v5ApOajCXR4zHp-nvgON9frwcRl2bQlN7kU


----------



## Gnuretiree

Looks to me like Tom took the top ten birds from each race and placed them in the either the A or B race. I think the A and B race count the same. Everything else went to the last group


----------



## Flapdoodle

No difference between the "A" and "B" race. "A" birds are not better then the "B" birds or vice versa. I can send 30 birds each Saturday. 15 to the A race, 15 to the B race. I don't want to but my best 15 birds in the A race I want to distribute the best birds as evenly as I can in both races. That gives us the best chance to score points and average speed in both the A and B. 

The first ten birds in the A, B, and C (trainers) race will be the thirty birds sent in the A or B race the following week. What decides if they are in the A or B... basically just trapping order. The two exception is AVC bird twice in a row in the B, I plan to leave him in the B and the GFTG birds if in the top 30 I will try to get in the A race. All others will go every other bird to the A or B race. The list is sorted by trapping order from last Saturday. I did have a problem with the clock not getting six birds before knockoff they are marked with "20". Birds marked with a "99" trapped that day after knockoff. Those with "999" trapped the day after the race.

Not perfect but that is the plan. 

The club voted at one point to have a C race with printed results. After the first week with only one flyer on the first page that idea was squashed. Last week there were only a few of us that shipped to the C or trainer race.


----------



## Flapdoodle

Gnuretiree said:


> Looks to me like Tom took the top ten birds from each race and placed them in the either the A or B race. I think the A and B race count the same. Everything else went to the last group


what he said


----------



## Flapdoodle

kalapati said:


> hi tom, are some of our racers still moulting. just trying to find excuses (LOL) for i noticed SD 412's performance has gone south from being on top during the training.
> 
> kalapati
> San Diego
> 
> http://blubarloft.dyndns.biz:81/jview.htm


Some of the birds are falling apart and some are starting to slick up real nice. Can't recall 412's situation at the moment. We still have a lot of racing left.


----------



## conditionfreak

Anyone here close to Franklin, Indiana?

I was just notified by a bird rehabber, that one of my young birds "dropped out of the sky, coughing up blood", and was rescued by a citizen, who in turn contacted the rehabber.

The rehabber instructed the citizen to take the bird to vet. clinic in Franklin, Ind.

They are closed now, but I am going to contact them in the am tomorrow and see what is up with the bird.

The bird has been missing from a race in late July. Apparently it "fell form the sky" today (Wednesday the 7th). I am assuming a hawk hit or wire hit, but I don't know yet, if the bird will even survive the night. 

It will be a three and one half hour trip, one way, for me to get the bird. I'm hoping another pigeon keeper in the area can help me out and if the bird survives, keep it until I can drive to pick it up.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Flapdoodle said:


> Some of the birds are falling apart and some are starting to slick up real nice. Can't recall 412's situation at the moment. We still have a lot of racing left.


Tom 
Will you look the wings over before basketing? Seems like with molt effecting a few of the birds, that the list may be subject to change at the last minute. I think we all need to be flexible if you pull a bird. Hate to loose a bird that should not go.


----------



## Josepe

Randy has a good point and I agree.


----------



## kbraden

If birds are being sent while in molt, it is like a suicide mission. I would rather mine sit on a perch and look pretty instead of risk being ... "lost".


----------



## Matt Bell

I think Tom deserves a little more credit than that guys. He is a great pigeon person and wouldn't do something like that to a bird, especially with so many to choose from.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Matt Bell said:


> I think Tom deserves a little more credit than that guys. He is a great pigeon person and wouldn't do something like that to a bird, especially with so many to choose from.


I agree. It's common sense.


----------



## ace in the hole

MaryOfExeter said:


> I agree. It's common sense.



I think the question was asked because Tom said some of the birds were falling apart but in these first two races not one bird has been marked held back due to moult or missing flights.


----------



## Crazy Pete

Birds can be missing a few flights and still win races, as long as they are not on a blood feather.
Dave


----------



## Josepe

What Ace Said


----------



## kbraden

Josepe said:


> What Ace Said


I say "_DITTO_" to above


----------



## ace in the hole

kbraden said:


> Race Reports for 8/27 as listed with AU:
> 
> http://pigeon-ndb.com/race_reports.php?Org=Auburn%20RPC&DateRace=0&season=2011yb



Just bumping this up. 

This link will give you the UA race results as soon as they are turned in by the Auburn Racing Pigeon Club. You can bookmark this page or make a note of were it is posted here on this thread.

This way Tom will not have to post club results after every race.


----------



## Timber

ace in the hole said:


> This way Tom will not have to post club results after every race.


I would agree....only if your bird has scored in the top 20%. By asking him to upload the club results, it will show all the birds results. So if your like me, you still would like to see the official results even if they are below 20% so you can valuate your breeders.


----------



## ace in the hole

Timber said:


> I would agree....only if your bird has scored in the top 20%. By asking him to upload the club results, it will show all the birds results. So if your like me, you still would like to see the official results even if they are below 20% so you can valuate your breeders.


Tom posts the loft placement of everyones birds for the race they are in every week. If you look at that it will tell you. If your birds can't compete with the other birds in Tom's loft you have your answer.


----------



## ace in the hole

Hey Josepe, 

It looks like if the race placement doesn't change your LL 1006 will be following GFTG 105 in this week.


----------



## dogging_99

ace in the hole said:


> Just bumping this up.
> 
> This link will give you the UA race results as soon as they are turned in by the Auburn Racing Pigeon Club. You can bookmark this page or make a note of were it is posted here on this thread.
> 
> This way Tom will not have to post club results after every race.


Yea but! that only shows the top 10% and 20%


----------



## hillfamilyloft

What I was saying about wings was not directed toward Tom but those who have birds already earmarked for the A and B race. If he pulls the birds understand why he is pulling them. Yes it is common sense, but a few in here that have not raced might like to know why there bird are pulled if need be. If the birds drop a key flight etc. from Wednesday when he assigns them a race to Friday basketing he may need to pull them. Just picking up on his comment on how some are "falling apart".


----------



## Josepe

Okay Ace It's On!! GFTG 105 will be riding in the Back Seat this week! LL 1006 will be Driving!And hopefully GFTG 106 doesn't get in his way,he doesn't have a horn on the F14 Tom Cat he'll be driving.


----------



## Josepe

Ace,
This is my boy on a training run today.That's GFTG 105 in the Co-Pilot's seat.
GFTG 106 helped fuel him up today on the Ground Crew.


----------



## Flapdoodle

kbraden said:


> If birds are being sent while in molt, it is like a suicide mission. I would rather mine sit on a perch and look pretty instead of risk being ... "lost".


Suicide mission is a little dramatic. 100% of the birds are in the molt. It is that time of the year. Some of them basically look like crap. Unless it is a real bad head molt I send them. Will they fly 100% of there potential, NO. Can they make it home YES. 

This is one of the problems with the current set up. Taking birds hatched from January to May all different ages. Then you also have differences in birds genetically, some molt earlier then others. 



hillfamilyloft said:


> Tom
> Will you look the wings over before basketing? Seems like with molt effecting a few of the birds, that the list may be subject to change at the last minute. I think we all need to be flexible if you pull a bird. Hate to loose a bird that should not go.


I try to go through them each week. We have some birds with the 9th mostly grown in. Some are not that far (6th and 7th). If a bird is missing 8-10 I check to make sure it is not a blood feather. If they have two of the three flights and no blood feather I send the bird. 



Josepe said:


> Okay Ace It's On!! GFTG 105 will be riding in the Back Seat this week! LL 1006 will be Driving!And hopefully GFTG 106 doesn't get in his way,he doesn't have a horn on the F14 Tom Cat he'll be driving.


I will make sure to get them in the same race


----------



## Xueoo

Oh...now I know why my bird's been sucking. Bad feathers + bad childhood + not from a "racing" pigeon family + all white flights on both wings + not from Ace or Hill Family Loft...Man, how much worse can it get?


----------



## ace in the hole

Flapdoodle said:


> I will make sure to get them in the same race


Ok *Josepe* now it is on bro. You really think that was fuel 106 put in his tank? 

All that trash talk and now Tom is going to put them all in the same race. You do know now the best 1006 can do is 3rd. place.


----------



## Crazy Pete

If I was at a club meeting all this good humor would turn into an argument, and you guys just type away with a smile on your face. This is great.
Dave


----------



## Josepe

You don't get one of these for 3rd place.


----------



## g-pigeon

i need to get in on this next year. i feel left out.


----------



## rackerman

*What's the new colors on the list mean *


Flapdoodle said:


> Suicide mission is a little dramatic. 100% of the birds are in the molt. It is that time of the year. Some of them basically look like crap. Unless it is a real bad head molt I send them. Will they fly 100% of there potential, NO. Can they make it home YES.
> 
> This is one of the problems with the current set up. Taking birds hatched from January to May all different ages. Then you also have differences in birds genetically, some molt earlier then others.
> 
> 
> 
> I try to go through them each week. We have some birds with the 9th mostly grown in. Some are not that far (6th and 7th). If a bird is missing 8-10 I check to make sure it is not a blood feather. If they have two of the three flights and no blood feather I send the bird.
> 
> 
> 
> I will make sure to get them in the same race


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Xueoo said:


> Oh...now I know why my bird's been sucking. Bad feathers + bad childhood + not from a "racing" pigeon family + all white flights on both wings + not from Ace or Hill Family Loft...Man, how much worse can it get?


I think I remember those Xueoo birds doing quite well last year. It will come around. Don't leave out "Happy" he is also having a good year so far. Still young in the series. I bet we will see that Xueoo bird in the top really soon.


----------



## conditionfreak

Xueoo said:


> Oh...now I know why my bird's been sucking. Bad feathers + bad childhood + not from a "racing" pigeon family + all white flights on both wings + not from Ace or Hill Family Loft...Man, how much worse can it get?


Well....it could be an all white feral, and half duck.


----------



## Josepe

In reality the results can and most likely will change to some extent from week to week.Every race is different,and not just in distance.There can be a Sleeper or two come to the front in the up coming races.One may be Crazy Pete's 333 bird.Something Woke him up the last race.Would like to see 21582 Wake up soon(one of my breedings for First To Hatch).And with the moult thing now it makes it even a bigger crap shoot.


----------



## Timber

ace in the hole said:


> Tom posts the loft placement of everyones birds for the race they are in every week. If you look at that it will tell you. If your birds can't compete with the other birds in Tom's loft you have your answer.


I disagree. Theres a difference seeing a bird come in, say 5th vs. 20 of its loftmates and 47th vs 165 birds in club competition. That same bird that clocks 5th, may be 30 minutes or an hour out of 1st. So how is that a true result?


----------



## ace in the hole

Timber said:


> I disagree. Theres a difference seeing a bird come in, say 5th vs. 20 of its loftmates and 47th vs 165 birds in club competition. That same bird that clocks 5th, may be 30 minutes or an hour out of 1st. So how is that a true result?


I understand what you are saying. I like to use both club and loft placement. I also look at every race as a one loft race.


----------



## Josepe

The new list colors??


----------



## First To Hatch

I had a bird come home from 3 weeks ago today. I'm hoping my 21581 comes home now that the rain has stopped along with my other birds last week, I lost two diploma birds last week as well  .


----------



## Flapdoodle

Josepe said:


> The new list colors??


We tossed twice this week with another loft. On the toss yesterday most the birds trapped in 30 seconds (green), a few trapped 2 min late (yellowish orange), a few trickled in with in 30 minutes (dark orange), two did not make it until late afternoon, about an hour apart (red).

The list is sorted by band# I colored them just so I could keep track of who trapped in from the toss. I could have used an X or something else. The red two will most likely sit a week, but they are red so I make sure to check them real good before basketing them.

The color is for me when I am out at the loft. After I get back tonight I will put who was in what race.


----------



## Timber

Flapdoodle said:


> After I get back tonight I will put who was in what race.


Ok thanks!


----------



## Crazy Pete

I expected more from 11314 I got the parents from Randy at world of wings. When I wend to get them he said they would breed winners. I have 2 in my loft that are doing fair I just hope they do better with some distance. I have never had any Vandenabeele befor so I really don't know if they are short, middle, or long distance birds.
Dave


----------



## Josepe

Looks like only two races actually go to the middle distance?-Carlin and Elko.

Originally Posted by Flapdoodle 
Fernley 117 miles
Lovelock 177 miles
Imlay 203 miles
Winnemucca 233 miles
Valmy 253 miles
Carlin 300 Miles
Battle Mtn 258 Miles
Elko 318 Miles

Good luck to all tommorrow! You too Ace!


----------



## Southwing

Whats Luck?


----------



## Southwing

Just Kidding!! Good Luck All


----------



## kbraden

We have 2 fires burning out here, one close to release point and the other 15 miles east of Reno. Been thick smokey skies all day. Birds better wear their fog lamps.


----------



## Southwing

Never thought about that? Have released in fog many times but I think they would just fly high above the fog, they might do the same with smoke? Not Sure, Thanks for the Report


----------



## Action

*Thunder storms*

Racing from Fallon, Nv to Valley Springs, Ca.. on 9-11-11. Between the fires and the thunder/lighting storms should be a tough first race.
Jack


----------



## kbraden

Action said:


> Racing from Fallon, Nv to Valley Springs, Ca.. on 9-11-11. Between the fires and the thunder/lighting storms should be a tough first race.
> Jack


Thunderstorms around here don't really pop up til late in the day, after 2 pm generally. They normally form from the south. You should be ok for that one. Sent you a PM.


----------



## Flapdoodle

Southwing said:


> Whats Luck?


In any single race it is luck that determines the winner. 

When you pick a few birds to send out to a one loft race it comes down to luck. 

When you pair your birds the chance of breeding a great pigeon is very small. Hopefully you get lucky. 

Luck is huge in the pigeon game. 

Over the course of a season with multiple events or even years you can pick out the better birds or the better loft (handling skills and birds). Less luck is involved.


----------



## Flapdoodle

I decided not to ship the "C" birds and I pulled a few from the A and B. I hope no one wants to shoot me.

Regular soccer season games start tomorrow. I am not sure how much time I will have to post updates. Be patient you might have to wait until after knockoff. If I can update I will.


----------



## rackerman

Good luck today.... GO COV 33..


----------



## jpsnapdy

Flapdoodle said:


> I decided not to ship the "C" birds and I pulled a few from the A and B. I hope no one wants to shoot me.
> 
> Regular soccer season games start tomorrow. I am not sure how much time I will have to post updates. Be patient you might have to wait until after knockoff. If I can update I will.


You're the man, Tom! You decide what's best.
Good luck to all those whose birds are in!


----------



## ace in the hole

Good luck to all that are racing today.

Good luck tomorrow *g-pigeon*.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Flapdoodle said:


> I decided not to ship the "C" birds and I pulled a few from the A and B. I hope no one wants to shoot me.
> 
> Regular soccer season games start tomorrow. I am not sure how much time I will have to post updates. Be patient you might have to wait until after knockoff. If I can update I will.


Our soccer season also starts today. Its raining right now and who knows. Understand completely. I am helping coach two teams. Also you know best on which birds need to be held back. Also the race is about the same distance as last week. The birds will not miss a beat sitting out. They may come back stronger next week with a better wing. Sometimes it is a luxury doing the every other week thing with a few birds and giving them rest. Also you will have a better chance having a full team come the later races. Good luck to all.


----------



## Crazy Pete

Soccer season has started all over. Give the kids a good pep talk and promise them you will go out for peanuts after the game. Well for kids you might want to make that ice cream.
Dave


----------



## rackerman

*Tom, Good Luck With The Soccer Game
Can't Wait For The Results, Gotta Work Go To Work This Afternoon And Guess I Will Check Back Later There.

Good Luck To Those In The Races*


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Soccer Results 
Falcons 4 Fireballs 0
Thought I would give you some soccer results while you were waiting. My 11 year old son's team is the Falcons. I hope our birds do better against the Falcons than the Fireballs did.


----------



## Flapdoodle

*COV 33 in the A Race & AVC 1108 in the B Race*

We are in for a tough day. Strong winds and around 90 right now and climbing. The wind is blowing North/East right where the birds should be coming. 

Congrats COV 33! He trapped in what I think should be good time in the club with a stray I added to the team a couple of weeks ago. We did not get any other birds for almost an hour. 

happy can still be happy only this time it is 1108! The only B bird we have. 

Send whatever positive vibes you can for the other birds on what is turning out to be a tough day.


----------



## Flapdoodle

Action said:


> Racing from Fallon, Nv to Valley Springs, Ca.. on 9-11-11. Between the fires and the thunder/lighting storms should be a tough first race.
> Jack


Hope things are going well for you Jack. Can you check a band number for me? I have Motherlode 1080. She trapped in this afternoon with one of the PT birds. She is a little bbwf. She is missing most her tail but other then that seems OK.


----------



## mtripOH

Great going Russ! You got a great bird there! Sending all the vibes I can muster for COV26 safe and timely return! WTG winners!!


----------



## Flapdoodle

TRC 11464 was brought to knockoff by another flyer. He thinks the bird has been in his loft all week. Unfortunately he has been on a few training tosses to his second home this last week. Hopefully we can get him back in the mix without any problems. 

OCALA 89 (I think) trapped back in the loft this week. It was one of the OCALA birds for sure I was in a hurry last night and did not get the band number written down.


----------



## ace in the hole

Congrats to *rackerman* and *happy*. Hoping for a good return of the birds that are still out.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Definitely thinking I need some Happy birds  And COV birds.


----------



## Southwing

Just wondering what other birds came in? 

Southwing


----------



## Xueoo

Mine made it back....in the "suck" position again. Hope the rest of the birds make it back safe.


----------



## mtripOH

Breathing a sigh of relief here! Glad to see that COV 26 made it back home! Still sending good vibes for everyone to make it back.


----------



## Josepe

Congrats rackerman and happy.Some Consistent birds.


----------



## ace in the hole

Well *Josepe*, it looks like now we just hope they make it back.


----------



## Josepe

Yea Ace I'm Definately hoping for that.Part of the crap shoot- Anything can happen.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Right now don't looky so good. See what shows up this evening. Maybe morning before some make it back. Chances are the birds out still are missing a few feathers. They cycle. A few are still going strong like Cov 33 and the Happy birds. Sitting birds out this week may have been a good thing. Just hope what is out makes it back to fly another day.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Xueoo said:


> Mine made it back....in the "suck" position again. Hope the rest of the birds make it back safe.


Hey it may be still sucking in the last race and win it all. This is a race series of attrition. The tough ones win this one. Your birds are that.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

I hope my bird comes home!


----------



## ace in the hole

This is a tough corse. We had two good weeks to start. That was good for the birds. It may help them get home from this tough race. My guess would be that if the night and morning are clear we will see more birds in the morning than we will yet tonight.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

MaryOfExeter said:


> Definitely thinking I need some Happy birds  And COV birds.


It ain't over yet. That Becky bird might just finish strong.


----------



## Josepe

Xueoo,
Atleast yours made it back.Be happy with that for now instead of their position at present.


----------



## Timber

Flapdoodle said:


> OCALA 89 (I think) trapped back in the loft this week. It was one of the OCALA birds for sure I was in a hurry last night and did not get the band number written down.


Ill let Sal know...thanks!


----------



## kbraden

We have a thick mass of smoke going on here from this fire to the south west of Fallon. http://www.ktvn.com/story/15433202/firefighters-battle-holbrook-fire-south-of-minden 
And there is still one burning east of Reno but is now partially contained.


----------



## Flapdoodle

Not only a tough day for all the lofts but we took a step backward as a loft. We are way down in the results on both races. 

I am pretty sure it is a feed issue. My oldest started school this week and I driver her to school and then go in to work. I don't have time to watch them eat or adjust feed levels. I need to get it worked out for sure. 

I might just to be safe bring a couple birds in for a crop flush and droppings check. 

I updated the list. The B race and trainers were hit the hardest. At knock off at 5:30. Steve was out 30 of his 60 trainers. Looking at the list on the B race the last birds from each loft are showing the following: 

birds clocked/birds sent

8/13, 6/15 (us), 15/15, 6/15, 7/15, 7/15, 4/15, 14/15, 6/15, 3/15, 12/15

The lofts on a system are 15/15, 14/15, 12/15. Just an observation.


----------



## kbraden

Tom, I think it had a lot to do with the smoke out here. It has been horrible since yesterday, not much wind so it is stuck here in the valley like some dark hole. I haven't seen the sky in 2 days now. Hope more find there way back.


----------



## Crazy Pete

Congrats to the winers, and to every body that got birds back. I'm thrilled 5 th place 2 weeks in a row. Maybe the Fabry part of my 11333 is starting to show, I just really hope it finishes the season.
Dave


----------



## Josepe

Congrats to the Winners and to the one's that's moved up.Just glad my boy made it back,and still fairly consistent.Hope they All make it back, and have better conditions next week.
Pete,
I told you I thought that 333 had Awoken.It was probably the smell of $$.


----------



## Crazy Pete

Josepe
He is going to have to wake up a little more to get up with your bird. I had his dad email him and give him a good wing slap.
Dave


----------



## conditionfreak

mtripOH said:


> Breathing a sigh of relief here! Glad to see that COV 26 made it back home! Still sending good vibes for everyone to make it back.


Hey. 13th, 2nd and 2nd in the first three races is nothing to sneeze at. COV-26 is doing quite well I think.


----------



## Crazy Pete

Is there any Sure Bet birds in this race? Mine has a little.
Dave


----------



## conditionfreak

I have held off posting what COV-33 and 32 are out of. I hesitated for two reasons. One being the birds are not mine. They belong to rackerman. I have had conversation with rackerman and he says he is fine with me posting what they are out of. The other reason being that I wanted to make sure #33 was worthy of such a posting. It is starting to look like #33 might be the real deal, as far as a decent racing pigeon.

I am extremely glad that COV-32, 33 and 26 have done well for their owners. rackerman and mtripoh. If not for them, those birds would not have been in this competition.

As y'all know, my two entries are no longer in the hunt.  But that is pigeon racing. Many good birds have bad luck. I believe that happens often. Sometimes bad birds have good luck, but I think that is fairly rare. I actually have what I consider better breeders than is represented in this competition, with COV bands on them. But their babies were not ready at the time birds needed to be shipped to Flapdoodle. That was my fault and not the breeders' faults. I have some solid black pairs that I really want to try out in this competition. Jan Arden x Ludo Claessens crosses. The babies are sweet and flyng well for me right now. Not winning 1st's, but nonetheless, doing quite well for me. My best two young birds.

I also recently received as gifts, two solid black nestmates, Husken Van Reil x Muelman crosses that I am going to breed next year. Probably going to cross one of them with a solid black Jan Arden import I own. I can't wait until next year.

I will get my act together and post what #33 is out of. I actually posted the sires pic a long time ago, that was in the Pigeon Digest awhile back, in another thread.

The cock and hen parents were both gifts from a good friend in the Cleveland area. Don Campbell.

What I would like to see in the near future, is COV-33, COV-26 and COV-32, 1st, 2nd and 3rd, in Flapdoodles combine. That would be sweet.

But I won't hold my breath. 



P.S. Should I become a feather merchant now? Or is it too soon? he he


----------



## jpsnapdy

Congrats to all breeders of the birds who made it back. They are some tough birds there!


----------



## NayNay

conditionfreak said:


> P.S. Should I become a feather merchant now? Or is it too soon? he he


LOL~ from what I can tell, the difference between being a "feather merchant" and a "seller of quality birds for the sake of profit- and of course the overall betterment of the pigeon racing sport"- usually comes down to savvy marketing, smoke, mirrors, and shameless self promotion- all in properly measured amounts! Depending of course on whose birds are being evaluated, and who is calling who names. LOL


----------



## rackerman

*WOW!!! That's one good bird! I am happy, just like Happy...... Hope Cov 33 can keep it up!!*


Flapdoodle said:


> We are in for a tough day. Strong winds and around 90 right now and climbing. The wind is blowing North/East right where the birds should be coming.
> 
> Congrats COV 33! He trapped in what I think should be good time in the club with a stray I added to the team a couple of weeks ago. We did not get any other birds for almost an hour.
> 
> happy can still be happy only this time it is 1108! The only B bird we have.
> 
> Send whatever positive vibes you can for the other birds on what is turning out to be a tough day.


----------



## rackerman

*Thank you! Cov 26 didn't do to bad, looks like he's coming around. I bet he will.. I feel for the birds that did not make it back. I hope they all are back in the morning.*


mtripOH said:


> Great going Russ! You got a great bird there! Sending all the vibes I can muster for COV26 safe and timely return! WTG winners!!


----------



## rackerman

*Thanks Mark!*


ace in the hole said:


> Congrats to *rackerman* and *happy*. Hoping for a good return of the birds that are still out.


----------



## rackerman

*Your GREAT Walt! I thank you, thank you & thank you! Yes, my birds now, but they were once yours. So, you have to take credit too
I am so happy and can't think straight right now. GO Cov birds.*


conditionfreak said:


> I have held off posting what COV-33 and 32 are out of. I hesitated for two reasons. One being the birds are not mine. They belong to rackerman. I have had conversation with rackerman and he says he is fine with me posting what they are out of. The other reason being that I wanted to make sure #33 was worthy of such a posting. It is starting to look like #33 might be the real deal, as far as a decent racing pigeon.
> 
> I am extremely glad that COV-32, 33 and 26 have done well for their owners. rackerman and mtripoh. If not for them, those birds would not have been in this competition.
> 
> As y'all know, my two entries are no longer in the hunt.  But that is pigeon racing. Many good birds have bad luck. I believe that happens often. Sometimes bad birds have good luck, but I think that is fairly rare. I actually have what I consider better breeders than is represented in this competition, with COV bands on them. But their babies were not ready at the time birds needed to be shipped to Flapdoodle. That was my fault and not the breeders' faults. I have some solid black pairs that I really want to try out in this competition. Jan Arden x Ludo Claessens crosses. The babies are sweet and flyng well for me right now. Not winning 1st's, but nonetheless, doing quite well for me. My best two young birds.
> 
> I also recently received as gifts, two solid black nestmates, Husken Van Reil x Muelman crosses that I am going to breed next year. Probably going to cross one of them with a solid black Jan Arden import I own. I can't wait until next year.
> 
> I will get my act together and post what #33 is out of. I actually posted the sires pic a long time ago, that was in the Pigeon Digest awhile back, in another thread.
> 
> The cock and hen parents were both gifts from a good friend in the Cleveland area. Don Campbell.
> 
> What I would like to see in the near future, is COV-33, COV-26 and COV-32, 1st, 2nd and 3rd, in Flapdoodles combine. That would be sweet.
> 
> But I won't hold my breath.
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. Should I become a feather merchant now? Or is it too soon? he he


----------



## ace in the hole

rackerman said:


> *Your GREAT Walt! I thank you, thank you & thank you! Yes, my birds now, but they were once yours. So, you have to take credit too
> I am so happy and can't think straight right now. GO Cov birds.*


Good job Walt. Those COV birds are really looking good.

As for happy's birds, I want to tell Tom those pills Ralph sent you to give his birds before the races are not vitamins! They are HAPPY pills!!! Great job *happy*. You have two birds to be very proud of.

*Josepe*, it looks like 1006 gave 106 some bad directions.

We are all hoping for good returns this morning.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Flapdoodle said:


> Not only a tough day for all the lofts but we took a step backward as a loft. We are way down in the results on both races.
> 
> I am pretty sure it is a feed issue. My oldest started school this week and I driver her to school and then go in to work. I don't have time to watch them eat or adjust feed levels. I need to get it worked out for sure.
> 
> I might just to be safe bring a couple birds in for a crop flush and droppings check.
> 
> I updated the list. The B race and trainers were hit the hardest. At knock off at 5:30. Steve was out 30 of his 60 trainers. Looking at the list on the B race the last birds from each loft are showing the following:
> 
> birds clocked/birds sent
> 
> 8/13, 6/15 (us), 15/15, 6/15, 7/15, 7/15, 4/15, 14/15, 6/15, 3/15, 12/15
> 
> The lofts on a system are 15/15, 14/15, 12/15. Just an observation.


If I were guessing by the results and that the guys on the system are 100-200 ypm faster than the PT birds, that it all comes down to the feathers. Body, Tail and Wing feathers are probably missing on all the slow or missing birds. Just part of flying the natural system. The system guys had birds with full wings, heads and tails. The three birds that I hatch out that are missing were born the same day. Probably close to each other in feather. I would expect to see a few of the missing birds come in today. I would not think the feed would be an issue in a weeks time with trainings. Last week the did pretty good. I would think that in a tough race wind visibility etc. The tough birds with better feather position are the ones home. Ok I am making excuses for my birds, but I do not think it is because they can not fly 200 miles in tough races. The bloodline I sent have won numerous times at 200 to 300 in the desert mountains. But when you have system guys sitting with 15 birds and you have 3 in the B race and Tom is a good trainer it is most likely the only factor that is different and that is the feather. Even our best birds this week were off 1600ypm vs 1400ypm. Makes you want to turn to the Dark Side young poopy ones.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Just wondering, those at the top of the PT race this week. When did your birds hatch out? Wonder if there is a correlation on hatch date with those top birds. Would like to see if we have any early hatches or late hatches near the top. Someone once told me that their later hatches fly better because the molt later after the season. Wondering if the early birds are further through the molt and in better position. Might be something to consider when breeding for young bird season. I know in my young bird section they are knee deep in feathers and look like plucked chickens. A few of my late hatches look like slick flying machines.


----------



## rackerman

*Thats a good point and makes lots of sense.*


hillfamilyloft said:


> Just wondering, those at the top of the PT race this week. When did your birds hatch out? Wonder if there is a correlation on hatch date with those top birds. Would like to see if we have any early hatches or late hatches near the top. Someone once told me that their later hatches fly better because the molt later after the season. Wondering if the early birds are further through the molt and in better position. Might be something to consider when breeding for young bird season. I know in my young bird section they are knee deep in feathers and look like plucked chickens. A few of my late hatches look like slick flying machines.


----------



## First To Hatch

hillfamilyloft said:


> Just wondering, those at the top of the PT race this week. When did your birds hatch out? Wonder if there is a correlation on hatch date with those top birds. Would like to see if we have any early hatches or late hatches near the top. Someone once told me that their later hatches fly better because the molt later after the season. Wondering if the early birds are further through the molt and in better position. Might be something to consider when breeding for young bird season. I know in my young bird section they are knee deep in feathers and look like plucked chickens. A few of my late hatches look like slick flying machines.


I had a friend tell me once he tried breeding early one year, and those birds did great the first few races but then his younger birds took over in the end.


----------



## Josepe

Was told by an experienced friend(45 years racing-7 with the GHC)that your best young birds are your April/May born birds.Whatever the cause of the change this week I hope it passes and evens out.
Ace,
Don't know what happened.106 was given Specific instructions to follow 1006 from release to clock-in.I do hope he comes in today and the others also.


----------



## Xueoo

I think the individual breed or bird has a lot to do with how fast they molt. My PT bird this year is from an early molting family and will molt more than one feather at a time. I have two full siblings to my PT bird that are from the second round that are in full feathers now. My bird was one of the last sent, not that it's one of the "top" birds or anyhthing.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Xueoo said:


> I think the individual breed or bird has a lot to do with how fast they molt. My PT bird this year is from an early molting family and will molt more than one feather at a time. I have two full siblings to my PT bird that are from the second round that are in full feathers now. My bird was one of the last sent, not that it's one of the "top" birds or anyhthing.


If your PT bird is coming out of the molt it should get stronger as the series goes on like your bird last year.


----------



## Happy

hillfamilyloft said:


> Just wondering, those at the top of the PT race this week. When did your birds hatch out? Wonder if there is a correlation on hatch date with those top birds. Would like to see if we have any early hatches or late hatches near the top. Someone once told me that their later hatches fly better because the molt later after the season. Wondering if the early birds are further through the molt and in better position. Might be something to consider when breeding for young bird season. I know in my young bird section they are knee deep in feathers and look like plucked chickens. A few of my late hatches look like slick flying machines.


Hillfamily, My AVC 1105 was hatched Mar. 8 2011 - AVC 1108 was hatched Mar. 11, 2011... My best birds when I flew YB's on the Natural System were hatched in mid April, so a little later & when Trained & Raced hard didn't get out to the 8-9-10th. I also found that abt. 75% of my best birds YB's & yrs. of OB's were also born in April....... Course tell Ace that the Pills I'm sending Flap are Great, Secret Pills!!!!  Thanks for the Grads all. & Great Bird Rackerman.. Hope we got plenty of birds back this morn...... Happy


----------



## hillfamilyloft

I think I am going to look at my racing results and see if the hatch date to good performance date duration has some correlation. May be able to dial in a hatch to date time for best performance. My thinking is if you darken your birds you take this out of the equation.


----------



## Thunderbird Racing

if anyone cares....

vita-king 785 hatched on 1/10/2011
vita-king 789 hatched on 1/23/2010


----------



## NayNay

hillfamilyloft said:


> I think I am going to look at my racing results and see if the hatch date to good performance date duration has some correlation. May be able to dial in a hatch to date time for best performance. My thinking is if you darken your birds you take this out of the equation.


I am curious about this, so please post what your findings are. I am not set up for any kind of darkening system, and really have no desire to fly that way. So, dialing in the best age of to start racing with re to moult seems like a good idea. Of course as others have pointed out, each bird family is going to have it's own maturation rate, and I would imagine that other variables also would come into play. Still interesting.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Well so far I am finding that my best birds are First rounders. Late Feb to Early April for a mid September season. Am not seeing much of a correlation with age and ability. I have winners out of all that are old enough to races. Chances are we are racing against Dec or Jan babies that have been darkened. I may put it on a spreadsheet and get an average days to win or top 10% finishes. I may find that there is no rush to breed if May youngsters win as much as Jan or Feb youngsters do. Skip all the freezing issues.


----------



## Josepe

All the flyers in this area put their birds together every year in Feb.on Valentines Day.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Josepe said:


> All the flyers in this area put their birds together every year in Feb.on Valentines Day.


That is when we used to do it. I moved it up a couple of weeks. The guys in ABQ start in January. Some use lights.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

I probably won't put mine together until January even though I usually have them together by the first of December. Next year I'm going to keep two rounds and the other will only be for other people, auctions, etc.


----------



## NayNay

Yeah, my club prez keeps telling me I *Have * to put my breeders together in November, on thanksgiving day. LOL- apparently he hasn't met me, but beyond dieing someday and paying my taxes there is very little I *Have* to do- and even less that I can be compelled to do if I have my mind set other wise. Our coldest months are Jan and Feb...Why would I want babies to be born into that? Just so I can hassle with trying to train them during torrential downpours in March/April?


----------



## Southwing

Anyone heard update about what birds are back and not?


----------



## Flapdoodle

Southwing said:


> Anyone heard update about what birds are back and not?


I updated the list. Four checked in for breakfast. Hopefully more check in tonight.


----------



## Crazy Pete

Number 2 bird in the A list? Does that meen the rest of us move up 1 place?
Dave


----------



## pigeonnewb

if anyone cares....

both of mine are nestmates and they were born on 2/20/11


----------



## loonecho

Flapdoodle said:


> I updated the list. Four checked in for breakfast. Hopefully more check in tonight.


Glad my NEPLS 1827 showed up. She may not be doing well in the placings, but she is beginning to prove "hard to lose". Sure hope the rest of your MIA birds show up.

Jim


----------



## hillfamilyloft

That did not help me out any.


----------



## kbraden

Noticed there were 2 birds with the #20 code, I believe last week you said that was for no power to clock. Is there a reason why the power keeps getting interrupted to the clock?


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Probably runs out of batteries waiting for all the late birds to come home.


----------



## Southwing

Im guessing yellow means still out and the 999 are late returns?


----------



## Flapdoodle

kbraden said:


> Noticed there were 2 birds with the #20 code, I believe last week you said that was for no power to clock. Is there a reason why the power keeps getting interrupted to the clock?


No power issue this week. The #20 birds came in while at knockoff. I guess those should of been 99. I am not very consistent. 



Southwing said:


> Im guessing yellow means still out and the 999 are late returns?


999 came in today, yellow still out.



Crazy Pete said:


> Number 2 bird in the A list? Does that meen the rest of us move up 1 place?
> Dave


Number 2 was a stray that trapped the day before the first race. I tried on multiple times to get him home but he kept coming back to my loft. He was number 2 a few seconds behind the first PT bird.


----------



## conditionfreak

Flapdoodle said:


> Number 2 was a stray that trapped the day before the first race. I tried on multiple times to get him home but he kept coming back to my loft. He was number 2 a few seconds behind the first PT bird.


Put him in the breeder loft.


----------



## SouthTown Racers

Those damn MTP birds need to step it up a notch!! I took 1,3,4,5,6 in our club today!! Out of 162 birds!!


----------



## rpalmer

NayNay said:


> Yeah, my club prez keeps telling me I *Have * to put my breeders together in November, on thanksgiving day. LOL- apparently he hasn't met me, but beyond dieing someday and paying my taxes there is very little I *Have* to do- and even less that I can be compelled to do if I have my mind set other wise. Our coldest months are Jan and Feb...Why would I want babies to be born into that? Just so I can hassle with trying to train them during torrential downpours in March/April?


Put your birds together on Valentines Day.


----------



## luckyloft

Tom, I guess I forgot to tell you TRC 11464 is a trained spy pegion. Its job is to infiltrate other peoples lofts on race day and then somehow find a way to get back to your loft to report on the training methods of the other flyers.Looks like he has accomplished 2 out of his 3 jobs, he should be ready to deliver his report soon.Be sure and send him out again so he can complete another mission.HA HA... Thanks Tom for doing a great job with our birds, Jeff


----------



## conditionfreak

SouthTown Racers said:


> Those damn MTP birds need to step it up a notch!! I took 1,3,4,5,6 in our club today!! Out of 162 birds!!


Two comments:

1) I thought I was looking at my loft. It looks exactly like that.

2) Why not 2nd also? Are you slipping? 




(just kidding). Congratulations!


----------



## NayNay

rpalmer said:


> Put your birds together on Valentines Day.


Yup- I saw that some folks do that, and it seems more reasonable in every way to me. Plus, it's _Romantic_- LOL


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Well I guess it looks like I will have to start cheering for someone else. Mine were not in it from the get go and got worse. Obvious my birds do not like that station. Have to re-think what I send if there is a next year. I think we have some strong birds in the race. Hopefully they can move up the sheet.


----------



## Flapdoodle

hillfamilyloft said:


> Well I guess it looks like I will have to start cheering for someone else. Mine were not in it from the get go and got worse. Obvious my birds do not like that station. Have to re-think what I send if there is a next year. I think we have some strong birds in the race. Hopefully they can move up the sheet.


Next year  

I made an appointment to bring a few birds in to have checked out on Wednesday. I talked to a guy new to my club but a long time flyer. He does this a couple times a year. We will see what happens. He said they do a crop flush, droppings check, look the bird over. I have thought it would be cool to get a microscope and be able to do this on my own. I took a few science classes in college with labs and am familiar with how to use a microscope.

I hope we get a clean bill of health as there is not time to medicate before the next race. The birds seem healthy to me. Will see what a professional has to say.


----------



## drifter

This is the first time I've followed or had any exposure to a pigeon race a or how one shakes out. My thinking was probably about three birds would consistently come in near the top and when the race lengthened one bird would begin to dominate and come in first every time. Looks as if I have a lot to learn about pigeon racing. This race just looks to be a crap shoot. I'm only sorry that I didn't have a couple of birds to send, unfortunately I had some problems at the time and decided not to send any birds. I'll be primed and ready next year if we have this race.


----------



## Flapdoodle

SouthTown Racers said:


> Those damn MTP birds need to step it up a notch!! I took 1,3,4,5,6 in our club today!! Out of 162 birds!!


That is awesome Matt. Keep it up!!


----------



## Josepe

Randy,
A Bummer for sure,but don't give up hope yet.


----------



## Josepe

Congrats Matt,quite a feat!


----------



## Southwing

Guess am out! My last pigeon never returned, I still had fun


----------



## hillfamilyloft

grifter said:


> This is the first time I've followed or had any exposure to a pigeon race a or how one shakes out. My thinking was probably about three birds would consistently come in near the top and when the race lengthened one bird would begin to dominate and come in first every time. Looks as if I have a lot to learn about pigeon racing. This race just looks to be a crap shoot. I'm only sorry that I didn't have a couple of birds to send, unfortunately I had some problems at the time and decided not to send any birds. I'll be primed and ready next year if we have this race.


Grifter every once in a while you get a bird that flies near the top. The birds to look for are the high points birds in the club and combine. We have some really strong bird in the PT race. A few are flying near the top every race. These are the best of the bunch. We just need to get them up the race sheet. There are three competitions here. The PT race, the club and the combine. You may see some of the distance birds poking their heads through the trap from here on out.


----------



## Thunderbird Racing

hillfamilyloft said:


> You may see some of the distance birds poking their heads through the trap from here on out.


that's what I'm hoping for


----------



## blongboy

Tom will mine fly this racing coming up?


----------



## Xueoo

Just putting down some observations and thinking out loud:

The type of course the PT race is in, you have to have smart pigeons that can fly solo and navigate through mountains, hills and valleys. Not simply a "tough", "long distance", etc type bird. They have to have good homing ability and the drive to want to make it back because there are a lot of obstructions along the way. They have to climb mountains, dip into the valleys, and possibly fly around or through some obstacles, which may include Lake Tahoe. A bird can simply give up at any point or follow others. I think a middle distance 300 mile type with good homing ability would do just fine over the course of the race series. I think a smart short distance bird would do fine as well. 

Birds that fly a straight course with little to worry about in terms of obstacles, I think those birds may lack intellegence, or, the real ability to think or home when they get into a situation as this course, where they have to work both physically and metally.


----------



## rackerman

*??*

This is something I have been thinking about? Has anyone who races or know anyone that has raced a bird that was hand feed as a baby and if so how did that bird do racing? I have a hand feed youngster that is very tamed as is always the first to go in the loft after loft flying. Could it be possible for them to be good race birds or is it all genitics?


----------



## Crazy Pete

Birds that fly a straight course with little to worry about in terms of obstacles, I think those birds may lack intellegence, or, the real ability to think or home when they get into a situation as this course, where they have to work both physically and metally.

So you don't think my flat land birds can't do very well in this race?
Dave


----------



## conditionfreak

rackerman said:


> This is something I have been thinking about? Has anyone who races or know anyone that has raced a bird that was hand feed as a baby and if so how did that bird do racing? I have a hand feed youngster that is very tamed as is always the first to go in the loft after loft flying. Could it be possible for them to be good race birds or is it all genitics?


I have never had a bird that was hand fed, that amount to anything in racing.

I also know that when someone gets "attached" to a particular bird, that is like the kiss of death. My favorites over the years, always got lost or damaged early in a season.

Maybe it's just me, but naming a bird or having one become "special" to you, usually is a kiss of death in racing. I can only assume that a hand fed bird would automatically become "special" to the owner.

Breeders would be a different story though.


----------



## ace in the hole

conditionfreak said:


> I have never had a bird that was hand fed, that amount to anything in racing.
> 
> I also know that *when someone gets "attached" to a particular bird, that is like the kiss of death.* My favorites over the years, always got lost or damaged early in a season.
> 
> Maybe it's just me, but naming a bird or having one become "special" to you, usually is a kiss of death in racing. I can only assume that a hand fed bird would automatically become "special" to the owner.
> 
> Breeders would be a different story though.


Years ago I hand fed a bird. It followed me every place I went (my dog killed it).

I had a hen I love the way she looked. Her parents were both national ace pigeons (she hit a wire and killed herself).

Last year I had a young bird out of a breeding I wanted a cock from. He looked great, he was the one (A hawk got in the loft and he was the one it killed). I also bred 801 to his daughter last year and they had a son that looked like 801's twin. I took it for one last toss (it never made it back).

This year I had a son of York 830 and 836 I really liked and wanted to stock ( The first training toss he hit a wire). He is the only young bird I have lost so far this year.


----------



## rpalmer

rackerman said:


> This is something I have been thinking about? Has anyone who races or know anyone that has raced a bird that was hand feed as a baby and if so how did that bird do racing? I have a hand feed youngster that is very tamed as is always the first to go in the loft after loft flying. Could it be possible for them to be good race birds or is it all genitics?


Renier Gurnay had some winners that he hand fed. I'm sure there are others but I am most familiar with this Great Master.


----------



## First To Hatch

How can you not fall in love with your diploma birds though? I lost two of mine...


----------



## MaryOfExeter

I think it depends on what it was fed and how long it had to be reared by the fancier. Crop milk substitutes are nowhere near the value of the real thing, so I would think they'd have a disadvantage. Although they do catch up after weaning, I still think the time in the nest is pretty important.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

MaryOfExeter said:


> I think it depends on what it was fed and how long it had to be reared by the fancier. Crop milk substitutes are nowhere near the value of the real thing, so I would think they'd have a disadvantage. Although they do catch up after weaning, I still think the time in the nest is pretty important.


I have had luck for older birds taking feed and water and blending it up in a blender to a mush. They love the stuff. Raised a few from about 14 days on. They soon will wean themselves to feed. I inject water with a syringe also.


----------



## Josepe

Flap,
What's the Lineup for the 4th race?


----------



## conditionfreak

COV-33 and COV-32 are out of "Atom Bomb", a gift from Don Campbell. "Atom Bomb" (2010-GNEO-1164, blue bar cock), is 3/4 Gaby Vandenabeele (world recognized great) and 1/4 "969" lines (famous line from Mike Ganus). "Atom Bomb's" mother is an obvious winner, as mentioned in picture caption below.

The mother of #33 and #32 is also a gift from Don Campbell. 2010-FSI-143, blue bar hen, down from John Weeks birds in Florida (well known great flyer). A line based on Janssen bloodlines.

"Atom Bomb" was pictured in the Racing Pigeon Digest late last year. Nothing special though. Just a cute pic thing.


----------



## mtripOH

conditionfreak said:


> COV-33 and COV-32 are out of "Atom Bomb", a gift from Don Campbell. "Atom Bomb" (2010-GNEO-1164, blue bar cock), is 3/4 Gaby Vandenabeele (world recognized great) and 1/4 "969" lines (famous line from Mike Ganus). "Atom Bomb's" mother is an obvious winner, as mentioned in picture caption below.
> 
> The mother of #33 and #32 is also a gift from Don Campbell. 2010-FSI-143, blue bar hen, down from John Weeks birds in Florida (well known great flyer). A line based on Janssen bloodlines.


That's pretty darn impressive! Thanks for sharing!


----------



## rackerman

*Walt, That sure makes me one proud owner. Lets keep our fingers crossed for Saturday! 


*COV-33 and COV-32 are out of "Atom Bomb", a gift from Don Campbell. "Atom Bomb" (2010-GNEO-1164, blue bar cock), is 3/4 Gaby Vandenabeele (world recognized great) and 1/4 "969" lines (famous line from Mike Ganus). "Atom Bomb's" mother is an obvious winner, as mentioned in picture caption below.

The mother of #33 and #32 is also a gift from Don Campbell. 2010-FSI-143, blue bar hen, down from John Weeks birds in Florida (well known great flyer). A line based on Janssen bloodlines.

"Atom Bomb" was pictured in the Racing Pigeon Digest late last year. Nothing special though. Just a cute pic thing


----------



## rackerman

I wonder if Cov33 or 32 has eleven flights


----------



## PigeonVilla

rackerman said:


> I wonder if Cov33 or 32 has eleven flights


I really think he would have posted that earlier if it were so .


----------



## rackerman

*Maybe & maybe not*


PigeonVilla said:


> I really think he would have posted that earlier if it were so .


----------



## rackerman

*I see Tom has the list of birds up for this Saturday!!*


----------



## Flapdoodle

rackerman said:


> *I see Tom has the list of birds up for this Saturday!!*


Just kind of tentative. I sorted those that are not marked A or B by the previous weeks performances. Still kind of a toss up until I go to basket them. There are a few birds I need in each race to make the 15 bird limit.

I did pay a vet to tell me the pigeons are healthy. I think it would be pretty easy to do a wet slide from a throat swab and a fecal smear on my own. I just need a microscope and some practice looking at stuff. It was interesting, I guess.


----------



## JaxRacingLofts

Flapdoodle said:


> Just kind of tentative. I sorted those that are not marked A or B by the previous weeks performances. Still kind of a toss up until I go to basket them. There are a few birds I need in each race to make the 15 bird limit.
> 
> I did pay a vet to tell me the pigeons are healthy. I think it would be pretty easy to do a wet slide from a throat swab and a fecal smear on my own. I just need a microscope and some practice looking at stuff. It was interesting, I guess.


Well in all fairness to everyone participating I would suggest holding JAX2618 back. Its almost comical that a loft stray is more consistent than my futurity bird. 
I'm glad he made it back but I doubt he is going to set any speed records on your course

Anyway, Good luck to all the breeders racing and Happy Flying Tom.


----------



## Flapdoodle

*Last weeks results*

It is not all that pretty

Combine report

A Race Club

B Race Club


----------



## Flapdoodle

JaxRacingLofts said:


> Well in all fairness to everyone participating I would suggest holding JAX2618 back. Its almost comical that a loft stray is more consistent than my futurity bird.
> I'm glad he made it back but I doubt he is going to set any speed records on your course
> 
> Anyway, Good luck to all the breeders racing and Happy Flying Tom.


I should remove "stray". The guy in my club paid some pretty good money for the sire so he could get some distance birds in his loft, I think he said Jan Aardens, whatever that means. He went on about how half way through the season I should pull the bird for the long races as OB. 

Talking about strays the 2nd bird on the drop with AVC last Saturday was a stray as well. He did not even make are spreadsheet. The bird is afraid to fly, I can't get him to loft fly at all. I tried to get him back to his owner twice. The guy just said fly it. He pays good money for birds. Not sure the details he did say if the bird was still around after the races he would get me a pedigree.


----------



## kbraden

Glad to hear all birds are healthy! Good luck on race day to all flying, hope it is good weather this time.

What does the HB mean? home bound?


----------



## Josepe

The Half Way point.Good luck to all!


----------



## rackerman

*Tom, Glad to hear you got a clean bill of health on the birds! Thanks for the updates!*


----------



## rackerman

*Walt, Did you get him back?*


conditionfreak said:


> Anyone here close to Franklin, Indiana?
> 
> I was just notified by a bird rehabber, that one of my young birds "dropped out of the sky, coughing up blood", and was rescued by a citizen, who in turn contacted the rehabber.
> 
> The rehabber instructed the citizen to take the bird to vet. clinic in Franklin, Ind.
> 
> They are closed now, but I am going to contact them in the am tomorrow and see what is up with the bird.
> 
> The bird has been missing from a race in late July. Apparently it "fell form the sky" today (Wednesday the 7th). I am assuming a hawk hit or wire hit, but I don't know yet, if the bird will even survive the night.
> 
> It will be a three and one half hour trip, one way, for me to get the bird. I'm hoping another pigeon keeper in the area can help me out and if the bird survives, keep it until I can drive to pick it up.


----------



## Thunderbird Racing

kbraden said:


> Glad to hear all birds are healthy! Good luck on race day to all flying, hope it is good weather this time.
> 
> What does the HB mean? home bound?


maybe "held back"


----------



## mtripOH

Flapdoodle said:


> It is not all that pretty
> 
> Combine report
> 
> A Race Club
> 
> B Race Club


Ouch Looking at the report is kind of painful. Good luck to everyone.


----------



## rackerman

*Good luck to everyone Saturday.
GO COV 32!!!!*


----------



## ace in the hole

I was really hoping 106 would make it back but that is racing. You never know what is going to happen out there.

At least 105 is in the A race to give 1006 a licking.


----------



## Josepe

Ace,
Wish 106 would've made it back also,especailly after clocking 1st in his last race.Also wish that Randy's birds was still flying.Yous guys work hard at your breeding programs.I wouldn't be flying 1006 without your guy's birds.Good luck Sat!(You're going to need it)


----------



## kbraden

Thunderbird Racing said:


> maybe "held back"


Duh, I think you are right  For some reason that just wouldn't pop into my head last night, must have been too late to think


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Josepe said:


> Ace,
> Wish 106 would've made it back also,especailly after clocking 1st in his last race.Also wish that Randy's birds was still flying.Yous guys work hard at your breeding programs.I wouldn't be flying 1006 without your guy's birds.Good luck Sat!(You're going to need it)


Not all of what you breed is good. You can have the best bird one race and loose the lot the next. Kind of like Warren says, only about 10% of the best breeder in the worlds birds are good. Horses for the courses also. My birds do not like that third station. If I were flying in that club I would cross my birds in with something local. The birds I put in the race did not have the 801 x Warren blood of the birds you and ACE have in the race. Warren had the best bird in the race last year. The bloodline likes this course better. Condition and Happy's birds are showing good on the course also. If I was to fly this course every year, I would know what to cross in. I breed for the ABQ course. Last year Flaps local birds did better than ours. Not surprised we are getting whooped by the local guys.


----------



## rackerman

hillfamilyloft said:


> Not all of what you breed is good. You can have the best bird one race and loose the lot the next. Kind of like Warren says, only about 10% of the best breeder in the worlds birds are good. Horses for the courses also. My birds do not like that third station. If I were flying in that club I would cross my birds in with something local. The birds I put in the race did not have the 801 x Warren blood of the birds you and ACE have in the race. Warren had the best bird in the race last year. The bloodline likes this course better. rackerman and Happy's birds are showing good on the course also. If I was to fly this course every year, I would know what to cross in. I breed for the ABQ course. Last year Flaps local birds did better than ours. Not surprised we are getting whooped by the local guys.


 rackerman & happy


----------



## Southwing

Hi Flap, just wondering if any other birds came back during the week?

Thanks


----------



## conditionfreak

rackerman said:


> *Walt, Did you get him back?*


Yep. Drove to Indianapolis and met a very nice bird rehabber lady. The bird looks and feels good. It is back in its home and already was loft flying today.

I don't think it was hit by a car at all. That was the supposition of the lady that found it. I believe it got something poison in it. That is my guess. Seems to be fully recovered now, but I am not going to race it this young bird season, with my second club. I'll just keep it for old birds next year.

I lost the bird on July 16th. It "showed up" in Indy last Tuesday. So, when y'all lose one. Don't give up hope. Sometimes small miracles do happen. (we have a flyer in our combine that lives in Indiana).

A couple of interesting things about the lost young bird I picked up in Inidanapolis. Its band number is COV-13, and its parents are the same parents as COV-32 and COV-33. I would name #13 "Lucky", if I didn't already have a bird named Lucky. It's a feral that I will tell the story of some other time.



I have a small story to tell about my trip driving back home from Indianapolis. I was on I-74, listening to Rush Limbaugh on the radio. I saw a sign on a bridge across the highway that said "Rushville road". At that moment I observed an exit sign that said "Rushville exit". At that time, I was moving to the left lane to go around a semi-truck and saw that the name of the trucking company (in big letters across the trucks trailer), was "Rush Trucking".

This all happened within a quarter of a mile. I just thought it was cool.

And no. I was not in a rush to get home. I was taking my time. 



Things may change in how the birds are coming home, when the races get longer. As someone else said. Different horses for different courses. I'm expecting COV-26 to get a 1st in the longer races.


----------



## Josepe

I also look for some changes in the positions since we're jumping out 30 more miles.I'm looking for 1006 to bring more Steam in this one since he coasted a little in the last one.


----------



## rackerman

*Walt, Thats one happy ending! I am so glad you were able to get him back and in good condition! That's pretty cool, he's related to Cov32 & Cov33.
Let's keep our fingers crossed for Saturday. Oh, I sent Flap some special feed for all the Cov birds*


conditionfreak said:


> Yep. Drove to Indianapolis and met a very nice bird rehabber lady. The bird looks and feels good. It is back in its home and already was loft flying today.
> 
> I don't think it was hit by a car at all. That was the supposition of the lady that found it. I believe it got something poison in it. That is my guess. Seems to be fully recovered now, but I am not going to race it this young bird season, with my second club. I'll just keep it for old birds next year.
> 
> I lost the bird on July 16th. It "showed up" in Indy last Tuesday. So, when y'all lose one. Don't give up hope. Sometimes small miracles do happen. (we have a flyer in our combine that lives in Indiana).
> 
> A couple of interesting things about the lost young bird I picked up in Inidanapolis. Its band number is COV-13, and its parents are the same parents as COV-32 and COV-33. I would name #13 "Lucky", if I didn't already have a bird named Lucky. It's a feral that I will tell the story of some other time.
> 
> 
> 
> I have a small story to tell about my trip driving back home from Indianapolis. I was on I-74, listening to Rush Limbaugh on the radio. I saw a sign on a bridge across the highway that said "Rushville road". At that moment I observed an exit sign that said "Rushville exit". At that time, I was moving to the left lane to go around a semi-truck and saw that the name of the trucking company (in big letters across the trucks trailer), was "Rush Trucking".
> 
> This all happened within a quarter of a mile. I just thought it was cool.
> 
> And no. I was not in a rush to get home. I was taking my time.
> 
> 
> 
> Things may change in how the birds are coming home, when the races get longer. As someone else said. Different horses for different courses. I'm expecting COV-26 to get a 1st in the longer races.


----------



## Kastle Loft

Will there be a C race this week?


----------



## rackerman

Well, getting ready to go to work for the night. I want to wish everyone GOOD LUCK for tomorrows race. Go Cov birds


----------



## Josepe

Flap,
How's the birds looking at basketing tonight? Which ones have their Winning Feathers on?


----------



## Happy

*I Hope for bbcdon Zepplin to Win!!*

Don, Just want you to know my Heart is on your ZEPPELIN 6 Wins, or does good You tomorrow Sat.. I remember how you sent Very Good Birds to many folks on this forum for Free & if I remember right even paid the shipping! Your the kind of person that makes Pigeon Racing a "SPORT". Hope ZEP 6 is refreshed after having to be Held Back last week. You deserve a good Win & know you are gentleman. Happy


----------



## Thunderbird Racing

Happy said:


> Don, Just want you to know my Heart is on your ZEPPELIN 6 Wins, or does good You tomorrow Sat.. I remember how you sent Very Good Birds to many folks on this forum for Free & if I remember right even paid the shipping! Your the kind of person that makes Pigeon Racing a "SPORT". Hope ZEP 6 is refreshed after having to be Held Back last week. You deserve a good Win & know you are gentleman. Happy


well said. I totally agree!!!


----------



## bbcdon

Thank you very much to the both of you for the kind words!


----------



## Josepe

Hopefully the birds are up okay this morning and have good flying conditions.


----------



## Flapdoodle

I updated the list. A few were held back again. Knockoff is Sunday night. I have a busy day and will not be home much. I will post trapping order when I can. Good luck everyone.


----------



## Xueoo

I feel good about todays race. I don't know why. I just have a feeling...


----------



## Xueoo

bbcdon said:


> Thank you very much to the both of you for the kind words!


I wish you would win too, Don, with all the good things you've done for the folks here.

Just curious, what did you send to this race?


----------



## Josepe

Knock off is Sunday night???


----------



## rackerman

*Thast's what I was thinking??*


Josepe said:


> Knock off is Sunday night???


----------



## bbcdon

Xueoo said:


> I wish you would win too, Don, with all the good things you've done for the folks here.
> 
> Just curious, what did you send to this race?


Zeppelin 6 has the following bloodlines: "SUPER CRACK 699", "TOMBA", "DREAM BOY", "EUROSTAR", "ROCKET", & "HOLLYWOOD".


----------



## kbraden

In general (to anyone who can answer this): How do you determine knock-off times?

In the case of the PT race, with a 233 mile race and a knock-off of approx. 36 hrs after release(which would be Sunday night), a bird could "technically" walk home at 6.5 mph and still make knock-off time? Something sounds wrong here.


----------



## Action

*Knock off*

On the short race you can knock off the day of return (Assuming everyone has birds) Most will be the next day. need to make sure there are enough birds home and that members can get there.
Jack


----------



## conditionfreak

Nothing wrong with walking home if a bird can't fly for some reason. A bird like that would make my breeding loft.

Knock offs are usually established at a certain time, either in the evening on a short race day. Or the next day if a longer race. Often we change them just so a member can do something else he had in mind, like a soccer game or whatever. No big deal in my club.

But phone contacts can and often do change that for smash races, bad weather or not enough money birds home yet to fill all of the pay off slots. Such as auction races, white bird races and such.

Nowadays, a phone call is sooo easy, with just about everyone having a cell phone (except me  ).


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Our races are on Sundays so we usually knock off clocks on Monday afternoon since church takes up the sunday afternoons. Just because a bird makes it to knock off, doesn't mean you have to enter it in the results if it's that big of a deal. Especially if you're using a manual clock.


----------



## kbraden

So pretty much, knock-off times are a personal/ club preference that meets all members needs? Here I thought it was some calculated approach.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Nope. It can just be a pain when you put it in winspeed because you have to enter the nights out. And the times become "negative"  The speed and everything is still calculated the same way. Knock off and bump times aren't really important, just as long as it gets done


----------



## Flapdoodle

rackerman said:


> Well, getting ready to go to work for the night. I want to wish everyone GOOD LUCK for tomorrows race. Go Cov birds


You must be feeling lucky. COV 33 took 1st in the A race. COV 32 took 2 in the B race 

1st place in the B Race is Vitaking 789. 

Congrats guys!!

It can't be a good thing when your first C bird is ahead of the B birds. I guess we will see what happens at knock off.


----------



## bbcdon

Rackerman, your bird is something else! Three firsts out of 4 races!


----------



## Josepe

Congrats Rackerman! Some kind of birds!Congrats Thunderbird.And Ace for moving up to 2nd position.Atleast 1006 is still in the mix and plugging,but didn't bring the Steam like he was suppose to. Looks like some of the C birds are starting to Awaken also. What's with 4th in the A???


----------



## conditionfreak

"Atom Bomb" is exploding. Woo-Hoo!!!


----------



## mtripOH

WOW!!! Way to go Russ! Those COV birds are something else!!! Walt, I can see you smiling all the way up here by Lake Erie


----------



## Pigeon0446

kbraden said:


> So pretty much, knock-off times are a personal/ club preference that meets all members needs? Here I thought it was some calculated approach.


Yeah it's up to the club/combine your flying in. I like the way we have it here you have 1 hour after your first bird to clock and another hour to travel to the club unless we make a set time say at night because they are predicting a bad race and there might not be too many birds clocked b4 dark or if the race was held over and say released on a weekday we'll come down at night so the ppl who work can get down there. I couldn't imagine waiting 36 hours to see how my birds have finished I go nuts with the 1 to 2 hour wait. If your wonderign what happens when you don't get there in the allotted time well you get thrown out of the race. It's happend a few times where the guy who would have won was late by a few mins and was thrown out. On the longer races like the 300 mile YB races and the 400 and 500 mile OB races you get a lil longer to clock I'm not sure it's either 1 and 1 half hours or 2 but either way it aint that long. I always stay the full hour to see my late guys get home. But the guys complain I take all day to get to the club ince I do all the clock and computer stuff. But I say wth I'm here within the time the rules give me so stop complaining.


----------



## ace in the hole

conditionfreak said:


> "Atom Bomb" is exploding. Woo-Hoo!!!


Good job COV 33 & 32. It looks like COV 33 has become the bird to beat. It also looks like 105 gave it his best shot at it this week.


----------



## kbraden

Congrats to all those back already! It was a much cooler day than last weekend, highs of only 80 and clear skies, no winds, thunderstorms or smokey fires to hinder the birds today


----------



## Josepe

Flap,
What's with the SHEW 1217 bird??


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Congrats  I've given up hope for my birds, haha.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Josepe said:


> Flap,
> What's with the SHEW 1217 bird??


Probably the stray.


----------



## rackerman

*I am at work on lunch and just had to come and check the results!!! Wow another 1st for 32 and 33 is coming along well. I am so happy I want to cry..
Thanks everyone for the congrats!! Walt, you have to be smiling from ear to ear.*


Flapdoodle said:


> You must be feeling lucky. COV 33 took 1st in the A race. COV 32 took 2 in the B race
> 
> 1st place in the B Race is Vitaking 789.
> 
> Congrats guys!!
> 
> It can't be a good thing when your first C bird is ahead of the B birds. I guess we will see what happens at knock off.


----------



## Crazy Pete

Congrats to the winners. Do we get to name cov 33? I vote for PT Bomber. You better watch out Tom is going to want to keep it for his breeding loft. lol
Dave


----------



## Josepe

If the SHEW 1217 is a stray( not a PT bird) I don't see where it should be counted in the PT position standings.It keeps PT birds from moving up in position if it places.The same with the other stray AUB 201.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

ace in the hole said:


> Good job COV 33 & 32. It looks like COV 33 has become the bird to beat. It also looks like 105 gave it his best shot at it this week.


Sibling to 105 made the top 10% in this weeks ABQ race at 33rd out of 411 birds. The 801 blood made a showing.


----------



## jpsnapdy

conditionfreak said:


> "Atom Bomb" is exploding. Woo-Hoo!!!


WOW!!! Atta boy!
Congrats!!! to handler, owners and breeders !!!

It looks like my Keyhole bird is content hanging around the 10% limit of the PT races


----------



## jpsnapdy

JaxRacingLofts said:


> Well in all fairness to everyone participating I would suggest holding JAX2618 back. Its almost comical that a loft stray is more consistent than my futurity bird.
> I'm glad he made it back but I doubt he is going to set any speed records on your course
> 
> Anyway, Good luck to all the breeders racing and Happy Flying Tom.


Many champs have built their lofts around strays in the past, nothing to be ashamed of...


----------



## jpsnapdy

Flapdoodle said:


> I should remove "stray". The guy in my club paid some pretty good money for the sire so he could get some distance birds in his loft, I think he said Jan Aardens, whatever that means. He went on about how half way through the season I should pull the bird for the long races as OB.
> 
> Talking about strays the 2nd bird on the drop with AVC last Saturday was a stray as well. He did not even make are spreadsheet. The bird is afraid to fly, I can't get him to loft fly at all. I tried to get him back to his owner twice. The guy just said fly it. He pays good money for birds. Not sure the details he did say if the bird was still around after the races he would get me a pedigree.


That's my point exactly. When we lose a bird we are immediately disappointed and may even comdemn the entire line while that bird may be winning for someone else. For some unknown reason, it prefers that loft better than ours. Patience is one of the prime qualities of a fancier.


----------



## jpsnapdy

Happy said:


> Don, Just want you to know my Heart is on your ZEPPELIN 6 Wins, or does good You tomorrow Sat.. I remember how you sent Very Good Birds to many folks on this forum for Free & if I remember right even paid the shipping! Your the kind of person that makes Pigeon Racing a "SPORT". Hope ZEP 6 is refreshed after having to be Held Back last week. You deserve a good Win & know you are gentleman. Happy


This makes one want to know you!


----------



## jpsnapdy

Crazy Pete said:


> Congrats to the winners. Do we get to name cov 33? I vote for PT Bomber. You better watch out Tom is going to want to keep it for his breeding loft. lol
> Dave


I'd say Tom deserves him!  wink, ha ha ha

But I'd suggest we don't name any bird until the races are over ???


----------



## rackerman

*Dave, I like that, PT Bomber...
What do you think Conditionfreak?? *


Crazy Pete said:


> Congrats to the winners. Do we get to name cov 33? I vote for PT Bomber. You better watch out Tom is going to want to keep it for his breeding loft. lol
> Dave


----------



## MaryOfExeter

If by chance they both turn out to be cockbirds, I would call 33 Fat Man and 32 Little Boy


----------



## conditionfreak

jpsnapdy said:


> Many champs have built their lofts around strays in the past, nothing to be ashamed of...


Ludo Claessens built his legend with the huge help of a "stray". Really a fine story.


----------



## conditionfreak

rackerman said:


> *Dave, I like that, PT Bomber...
> What do you think Conditionfreak?? *


I think we should wait until a bird wins before we start naming them. What would we do if we named #33 "P T Bomber" and then next Saturday he doesn't come home?

Let's not jinx him/her yet.

Which brings to mind a question for Flapdoodle. Do you happen to know if 33 is a boy? I'm guessing it is a hen. Hens seem to do better in racing, IMO. I do have a 50% chance of being right. 

If 33 wins the title, rackerman or Flapdoodle gets to name it. Unlike Becky's picks for names (yuck), I would go with "The Explosion" if it is a cock bird. And if it is a hen, I would go with "Becky Bomb".


----------



## First To Hatch

conditionfreak said:


> Let's not jinx him/her yet.


Boy, I had 4 guys handling one of my best clock birds at the club Friday, and he doesn't even clock for my yesterday, at least he made it home.


----------



## First To Hatch

conditionfreak said:


> Ludo Claessens built his legend with the huge help of a "stray". Really a fine story.


What irks me in that is did he even make an attempt at returning that bird?


----------



## MaryOfExeter

conditionfreak said:


> I think we should wait until a bird wins before we start naming them. What would we do if we named #33 "P T Bomber" and then next Saturday he doesn't come home?
> 
> Let's not jinx him/her yet.
> 
> Which brings to mind a question for Flapdoodle. Do you happen to know if 33 is a boy? I'm guessing it is a hen. Hens seem to do better in racing, IMO. I do have a 50% chance of being right.
> 
> If 33 wins the title, rackerman or Flapdoodle gets to name it. Unlike Becky's picks for names (yuck), I would go with "The Explosion" if it is a cock bird. And if it is a hen, I would go with "Becky Bomb".


Oh come on  It's history! Depressing history, but they are probably the most famous bombs.
I'm liking the hen's name, LOL 

But I agree, naming them right now isn't the best idea. Seems like hawks can read pedigrees and name tags very well.


----------



## Josepe

Hatch,
Ludo did make an attempt to return the bird and found that the owner had died.The bird was later referred to as the "Bird From Heaven" for how it help catapault Ludo and his birds to fame in the racing game.Surprised you haven't read the story.


----------



## rackerman

*Tom, Cov33 & Cov32 need more of that special feed I sent you...... Oh, give some to Cov26 too!!*


----------



## ace in the hole

rackerman said:


> *Tom, Cov33 & Cov32 need more of that special feed I sent you...... Oh, give some to Cov26 too!!*


Remember, they'er supose to eat that hemp seed not smoke it!


----------



## kbraden

ace in the hole said:


> Remember, they'er supose to eat that hemp seed not smoke it!


Ace this is where you're wrong... See, if they smoke it, they will be super hungry and want to get home faster


----------



## rackerman

*I'll have to remember that one...LOL*


ace in the hole said:


> Remember, they'er supose to eat that hemp seed not smoke it!


----------



## conditionfreak

Well....they are in California now. Like they say. When in Rome. 

I should say that even if #33 disappears tomorrow, it has done stellar to this point. No one or nothing can take that away. It is not winning combines, but in this nationwide competition, it has done very well. Each race is like a one loft race. Winning three out of four one loft races would put a bird on the cover of the Pigeon Digest, I think.

(Okay, I know there are only fifteen birds in each race. But hey, it has won by large margins.)


----------



## Josepe

That bird has certainly prove itself to this point and is impressive.But as I've said before each race is different and Anything can happen.Hopefully he goes all the way.Rackerman should be getting a Holliday Inn nest box ready for him,with a built in Peanut Machine.


----------



## Wingsonfire

kbraden said:


> Ace this is where you're wrong... See, if they smoke it, they will be super hungry and want to get home faster


I am getting a little hungry right now!


----------



## jpsnapdy

jpsnapdy said:


> WOW!!! Atta boy!
> Congrats!!! to handler, owners and breeders !!!
> 
> It looks like my Keyhole bird is content hanging around the 10% limit of the PT races


Sorry, that should have been 10th "place" not per cent.


----------



## Flapdoodle

Another pretty tough race for us. I will post the club results when I get them emailed to me. 

In the A race COV 33 was 21st place. GFTG 105 was the only other bird we had in the top 20%.

In the B race Vitaking 789 was 47th place. Not in the top 20%. 

I have been having problems with the clock. It looks like I may need to replace it. I have gone through two different antennas. Saturday afternoon I went to check the clock and it was beeping no antenna connected. Not sure what the deal is but I need to get it worked out. I will see if I can get a replacement loaned to me. 

As far as the birds the past two weeks have been a bit of a struggle. I am getting the birds over to another flyer at 5:30 AM Tuesday and Thursday for a training toss around 40-50 miles. The issue I am having is that I need to leave in the morning before the sun comes up. I have not been able to loft fly on the alternate days. I will see what I can work out this week to get the birds some more time on the wing.


----------



## Flapdoodle

Josepe said:


> If the SHEW 1217 is a stray( not a PT bird) I don't see where it should be counted in the PT position standings.It keeps PT birds from moving up in position if it places.The same with the other stray AUB 201.


I will make sure to pull all the "strays" from the A and B race. Unfortunately we might not be able to fill 15 in each race many more weeks.


----------



## Crazy Pete

Have no more birds come back after Saturday afternoon ?
Dave


----------



## Flapdoodle

Crazy Pete said:


> Have no more birds come back after Saturday afternoon ?
> Dave


We have a few more birds back. Unfortunately without the clock working I don't know which ones. I will get a physical inventory up when I can.


----------



## Josepe

Just Great.And without the clock working unless you get one today how are you going to know who makes it back from the training tosses?


----------



## Crazy Pete

He must be using a Unicon, I put up with sending mine in to get fixed 2 times a year. Now it is in the trash.
Dave


----------



## kbraden

Ok, I am going to try to write this as to not piss people off in anyway, just sometimes things don't quite look right when you type them in. 

The whole idea to the PT race this year was Tom wanting to get a shot at Championship Loft, this was mentioned within the first few pages I believe, and to race our birds against each other, for fun.
It is obvious that you are not going to get championship loft from this race season, or any other award, because you are up against some of the top dogs in that area. Now, this is not entirely your fault, because I think in order to keep it fun your racing club needs to separate the top dogs from the little people so it isn't so discouraging. It is depressing for a small time racer to see one guy enter 15 birds, and all 15 are the top positions. It is obvious that you are struggling to keep afloat in the races, are getting stressed, discouraged and things are beginning to go wrong. So is it worth just not even comparing our results to the better flyers and just comparing our birds against each other instead? Still send them out as usual for races, but not dwell on the fact they are not flying in top 20%? The whole plan was to see how they matched up to other PT member birds. I for one am quite pleased with my bird, he is a consecutive 5th place, 2 weeks in a row, and has slowly worked his way to that position. Not sure yet on his clocking time, but from when you last updated the list, he was in the loft by 2pm Saturday, which is a heck of a lot faster than previous weeks at shorter races. Heck, I am happy he made it home! I don't care that he isn't in the top 10% or 20% in your club, he is #5 against other PT members and that is good enough for me. 
Now, don't get me wrong, I do appreciate that you have opened your door to all these birds, and that is quite a feat on its own. But from the beginning, things should have & could have been done differently, but weren't. No point it fretting over it now. Just finish the season and have fun with our birds, not stress over how they didn't do well in the club, because all the birds that have made it back and are still in your loft are the actual winners.


----------



## eyespyer

I have enjoyed this thread, and am happy I still have a bird racing 

Keep up the good work


----------



## Josepe

Don't know why your post should piss anyone off,I think it pretty well sums things up.


----------



## ace in the hole

Josepe said:


> Don't know why your post should piss anyone off,I think it pretty well sums things up.


I agree, this is what it is. 

We all knew what this was going to be like from last years races before we even sent the birds. Even though this is fun to keep up on it is not a true test of bird against bird. The only way we can do that is a true one loft race. One release of all the birds together. If you look at last weeks race, all of the birds made it back from the A race except Hillfamilyloft's 107 who had been injured and this was it's first race. I think we can all see why that bird may not have made it home. But in the B race 1/3 of the birds never made it home because of the increasing winds and heat. Now what if Tom would have put the A birds in the B race and the B's in the A race. Who would be in the loft now and who would be lost?

I would like to see the PT race done as a one loft race but that is a lot for anyone to take on. If I had the loft for it I would consider it, but I am not set up for such a race.

I may do some kind of late hatch race next year but I can not handle more than 30 to 35 birds in my small racing loft.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

One good thing about racing with the club is that the birds get to race a whole series and Tom did not have to pull all the races.


----------



## Josepe

The One Loft Race vs The Club Races was put to a vote,which I voted for the one lofter as I imagine some others did,but the actual vote results weren't posted like they should've been.I think Tom just took someone's opinion to keep it to the club races.It would've been Alot simpler and easier for Tom,and would be Over.


----------



## Flapdoodle

Josepe said:


> The One Loft Race vs The Club Races was put to a vote,which I voted for the one lofter as I imagine some others did,but the actual vote results weren't posted like they should've been.I think Tom just took someone's opinion to keep it to the club races.It would've been Alot simpler and easier for Tom,and would be Over.


Not totally accurate, the results were all open for everyone to see. It was 30 to 24 for going with the club. With all the polls we pretty much went with what the majority wanted. 

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f14/poll-2-pigeon-talk-classic-48045.html


----------



## Josepe

My mistake then I missed that.And the poll link is dead.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

From the looks of it, I think we will have about 15 birds the last race. Personally I think the best birds are rising to the top. We have lost some good birds, but not sure whether or not they would not be lost in the A or B race. They have not done as well as a team as we expected, but many of them won in both the A and B races. Keep in mind Tom is working for us not against us. Not everyone will agree with all that is going on, but keep in mind you are not stepping up and taking the race, Tom is. Just think if negativity steps into the race then soon it will be like your local club. A bunch of grumpy old, I want it my way men, and Becky.


----------



## Flapdoodle

Kbraden not pissed at all. Pretty much spot on.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

I am not all that dissapointed, I know my birds can fly with the combine, and do well in the PT race. Like the feedback the race give about my birds. Also lets us know who has some quality birds to trade with. Gives those who do not fly in a club something to follow on Saturdays. From racing birds with others for 7 years and not flying my own team, I could not get my birds to where they are without guys like Tom. One thing I keep in mind. If the birds don't come home or win, then it might be the birds. The good ones seem to come home. And the best ones come home first. Not surprised that only about 10% are truly good birds.


----------



## born to race

i been reading this post and i can say this 1 loft race is one of the worst. and stop kissing tom's @$$. i know he did everything he can but he failed big time. a lot of people got upset and disappointed but but cant do nothing about it. learn from this mistake so the next one will be better.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

It's fun, and that's what matters. That's the point of it. 



Personally, I don't care who gets the PT Race(s) next year. As long as it isn't the idea where we all race our own birds and somehow pit the results against each other. The reason I liked this so much is because I like testing my birds. I'm already doing that here (granted, not very well due to lack of resources), and I want to do the same in other places. Different states, clubs, combines, methods, birds, etc.
We could even do more like a PT Futurity. Pick a couple PT members to accept birds. For example, Walt and Mark. Like a futurity, we'd get to chose who we want handling our birds (although I would put one in each loft just to see what happens). However, unlike traditional futurity races, the handlers may or may not be flying in the same combine. It'd be more like multiple mini-one loft races at a time. That way no one person is loaded with everything at once. Also, since it seems we all have tiny lofts compared to the giant ones of most one-loft's, it'd allow more people to enter, but each handler would'nt have to bother with so many birds at one time.
It would still be fun, and we could still post all the stuff in a thread like this. Then there would be the option of having an overal PT result sheet (it'd have to be made manually of course) judging it on speed. Yes, it would be unfair because different lofts will have different conditions. But it would be sort of like the national awards in the AU. I know I was against the similar idea of us racing our own birds and putting all the separate results together, BUT this way, there'd be a little less unfairness and more one-loft-ness (that's not a word, I know).

Just an idea. But like I said, as long as I get to have someone else race my birds, I'm happy. Speaking of which, if anyone wants some YBs to race next year, I'll have plenty to go around  LOL.


----------



## conditionfreak

Been wanting to say that for awhile, haven't you "born to race"? Just didn't want to do it under your "other" screen name.


----------



## pigeon is fun

i think PT classic is fun.


----------



## Xueoo

Make no mistake about it, if your birds suck...they suck. No blaming the handler. Blame you for sucking along with your birds. Become a better breeder so next time you don't have to make excuses.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

born to race said:


> i been reading this post and i can say this 1 loft race is one of the worst. and stop kissing tom's @$$. i know he did everything he can but he failed big time. a lot of people got upset and disappointed but but cant do nothing about it. learn from this mistake so the next one will be better.


Not Kissing his A&*^. I have two birds top 10 in the club and 10% in the Combine and two 1st and two 2nd in the loft off the birds I bred for myself and others. I am given a spread sheet to keep track of the birds every day from a guy who is not making money doing this. I get club results and combine results and don't have to handle or haul the birds. Don't know what everyone expects for $20. Some pay the money so they can whine about how they would do things differently. Now if you paid a $200 perch fee and $1000 a bird you could ***** because the guys clock went down and your 10th place bird in the B race did not get clocked. This is a race for fun and bragging rights. If someone thinks they have a bird in the loft better than COV 33 and are blaming its marginal results on Tom they are an idiot. Let the birds do the talking.


----------



## mtripOH

born to race said:


> i been reading this post and i can say this 1 loft race is one of the worst. and stop kissing tom's @$$. i know he did everything he can but he failed big time. a lot of people got upset and disappointed but but cant do nothing about it. learn from this mistake so the next one will be better.


Mighty strong words for a first time poster. I would think that if anyone involved in this PT race is so ticked off at how things are going that he/she could always send Tom money and have their birds shipped back right now. I really do not think that Tom would have any problem at all doing that. It really strikes me that there are some that can throw words around yet be unwilling to step up to the plate and offer to run the PT race themselves. I commend Tom (and no, that is not kissing his a$$) He has a lot on his plate and never once have I heard him complain. For 20 bucks, what more do you want?


----------



## Flapdoodle

born to race said:


> i been reading this post and i can say this 1 loft race is one of the worst. and stop kissing tom's @$$. i know he did everything he can but he failed big time. a lot of people got upset and disappointed but but cant do nothing about it. learn from this mistake so the next one will be better.


I tend to agree whole heartedly. Lets learn form the mistakes. We are only half way through the season. Lets wait until it is all over with and then we can make a mistake list. That is the only way to get better.


----------



## Action

*Mountain*

All I can say is flying over the mountain is tough. Tom is flying a tough combine where you better be the first loft in line or ? HWY 80 leads the way.
Jack


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Nothing like spoiling the mood.


----------



## rackerman

*How did you go from one post to 220 in the last two posting*


pigeon is fun said:


> i think PT classic is fun.


----------



## rackerman

*Very well said*


mtripOH said:


> Mighty strong words for a first time poster. I would think that if anyone involved in this PT race is so ticked off at how things are going that he/she could always send Tom money and have their birds shipped back right now. I really do not think that Tom would have any problem at all doing that. It really strikes me that there are some that can throw words around yet be unwilling to step up to the plate and offer to run the PT race themselves. I commend Tom (and no, that is not kissing his a$$) He has a lot on his plate and never once have I heard him complain. For 20 bucks, what more do you want?


----------



## dogging_99

mtripOH said:


> Mighty strong words for a first time poster. I would think that if anyone involved in this PT race is so ticked off at how things are going that he/she could always send Tom money and have their birds shipped back right now. I really do not think that Tom would have any problem at all doing that. It really strikes me that there are some that can throw words around yet be unwilling to step up to the plate and offer to run the PT race themselves. I commend Tom (and no, that is not kissing his a$$) He has a lot on his plate and never once have I heard him complain. For 20 bucks, what more do you want?


*I second that too, Very Well Said!!*


----------



## kbraden

*TOM- WHY was my bird 5th in the loft on Saturday at 2pm, now it is listed as a 20 ?*

According to you, the 20 code was clock not working. Well, it was working just fine when the bird passed thru it on Saturday and was registered as 5th place, and the list was updated to say 5th place on Saturday at 2pm.


----------



## Crazy Pete

I wish times were added so we would know when birds came in, oh well.
I'm just glad my bird is still there.
Dave


20 is better than 99


----------



## kbraden

Crazy Pete said:


> 20 is better than 99


This is true, but you missed the point. The bird was in 5th on Saturday.


----------



## Gnuretiree

Tom,
My Bird was 2nd in the C on Saturday and today "in Chico" - not sure what that means


----------



## kbraden

Gnuretiree said:


> Tom,
> My Bird was 2nd in the C on Saturday and today "in Chico" - not sure what that means


Chico, California. It is approx. 95 miles north of Tom's place.


----------



## JaxRacingLofts

Xueoo said:


> Make no mistake about it, if your birds suck...they suck. No blaming the handler. Blame you for sucking along with your birds. Become a better breeder so next time you don't have to make excuses.


Looks like where 1/2 way through this race series and my bird has been holding strong to the bottom of the race sheets..I might need to buy some ghetto rat feces feed birds off of you to improve my results.


----------



## Flapdoodle

kbraden said:


> *TOM- WHY was my bird 5th in the loft on Saturday at 2pm, now it is listed as a 20 ?*
> 
> According to you, the 20 code was clock not working. Well, it was working just fine when the bird passed thru it on Saturday and was registered as 5th place, and the list was updated to say 5th place on Saturday at 2pm.


I am not sure why. I did a physical inventory this morning at 4:30. Somewhere between the inventory and me updating the spreadsheet, I made a clerical error (we can add that to the mistake list). I am not sure what happened. I recovered the spreadsheet based on Saturday afternoon. When I get home tonight, I will check the list and try to update it again.


----------



## kbraden

Flapdoodle said:


> I am not sure why. I did a physical inventory this morning at 4:30. Somewhere between the inventory and me updating the spreadsheet, I made a clerical error (we can add that to the mistake list). I am not sure what happened. I recovered the spreadsheet based on Saturday afternoon. When I get home tonight, I will check the list and try to update it again.


Oh so it is just an error then. Ok, thank you!!!


----------



## Flapdoodle

kbraden said:


> Chico, California. It is approx. 95 miles north of Tom's place.


We did have one of the A birds (GFTG 115) end up in Chico Sunday afternoon. I am not sure what happend with are A birds. We only had one other A bird clock in after the last spreadsheet update on Saturday.


----------



## Flapdoodle

New clock should get here tomorrow. It should be a little easier to update the inventory list. I am pretty sure I can download a list right to the computer.


----------



## kbraden

Flapdoodle said:


> New clock should get here tomorrow. It should be a little easier to update the inventory list. I am pretty sure I can download a list right to the computer.


That will be awesome!


----------



## Timber

Flapdoodle said:


> New clock should get here tomorrow. It should be a little easier to update the inventory list. I am pretty sure I can download a list right to the computer.


That would be great as I see that OCALA-1082 appears to be missing. Also, a while back you stated that an OCALA bird had returned but you wasnt sure which one it was at that time. Any thought on who it is as I have not seen an update with that on the list. 

The list....what a cluster....can you revise it and make it more user friendly for us.....whos there, whos not, what place did they come in?......LOL


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Get over it people it is bird racing. Birds get lost in training, birds get lost in races, birds end up in other peoples lofts, clocks break down, birds get hit by hawks, birds get sick, and birds just plain are not good enough to win. We are not even to the hard races yet. The only thing I think that needed to be done differently is that I sent better birds for my two. That way I would still be in the race.


----------



## rackerman

*Maybe Tom was loft flying and that's where he ended up?*


kbraden said:


> Chico, California. It is approx. 95 miles north of Tom's place.


----------



## rackerman

*Good point! Your Randy (hillfamilyloft) *


hillfamilyloft said:


> Get over it people it is bird racing. Birds get lost in training, birds get lost in races, birds end up in other peoples lofts, clocks break down, birds get hit by hawks, birds get sick, and birds just plain are not good enough to win. We are not even to the hard races yet. The only thing I think that needed to be done differently is that I sent better birds for my two. That way I would still be in the race.


----------



## rackerman

*Thanks Tom, thats good news..*


Flapdoodle said:


> New clock should get here tomorrow. It should be a little easier to update the inventory list. I am pretty sure I can download a list right to the computer.


----------



## Flapdoodle

Timber said:


> That would be great as I see that OCALA-1082 appears to be missing. Also, a while back you stated that an OCALA bird had returned but you wasnt sure which one it was at that time. Any thought on who it is as I have not seen an update with that on the list.
> 
> The list....what a cluster....can you revise it and make it more user friendly for us.....whos there, whos not, what place did they come in?......LOL


OCALA 89 made the first of two training tosses last week not home from the seconded. He was fat and healthy probably two timing us with another loft. 

I updated the list and made it as user friendly as I can. If a bird is listed and not yellow I have it in the loft as of this morning.


----------



## Crazy Pete

Last time I looked at the list 11333 had a 20 next to it, now it is in yellow meaning its not there? Well if you do fly 11314 this week I hope the other birds share some of those hemp seeds. lol
Dave


----------



## Flapdoodle

rackerman said:


> *Maybe Tom was loft flying and that's where he ended up?*


The bird GFTG 115 showed up in Chico from Saturdays race. It is about 55 air miles from me. The lady fed the bird and gave it a drink. It rested at her place on Monday and she said it was flapping back and forth like it wanted out of the small cage she had it in. I had her release it this morning. It flew around for a while then landed back on her shop. Hopefully it will go back in her shop tonight and I will try to get a local flyer to pick it up. (Sorry Becky) We can add that to my "mistake list" after the season is over.


----------



## Flapdoodle

Crazy Pete said:


> Last time I looked at the list 11333 had a 20 next to it, now it is in yellow meaning its not there? Well if you do fly 11314 this week I hope the other birds share some of those hemp seeds. lol
> Dave


Sorry about that Dave. I had some problems with the list sorting just the trapping order and not all the information (band numbers). The information posted is as of a physical inventory as of today. 

Looking at the races ahead this is just going to get tougher. We have four left. Anyone still has birds want to throw in the towel let me know. We have a few that have been late every race but they are still coming. 

Also start thinking about getting birds back. It is going to get more hectic here in a few more weeks. I would like to get an idea of who wants birds back. Anyone that wants to give their birds to a local flyer he will take them. Some he will try as breeders the others as pumpers. I am sure we will be shipping some back just let me know of what your intentions would be.


----------



## mtripOH

Flapdoodle said:


> I am sure we will be shipping some back just let me know of what your intentions would be.


COV26 will be coming back to Ohio, just not to her birth loft. If COV28 should ever turn up she too will come back to Ohio.


----------



## Crazy Pete

We can add one more mistake to the list, 11333 is gone so you could put 33 in my box when you send them back. LOL Serious now if you think 11314 is far enough with his molt and can make it lets race.
Dave


----------



## Josepe

LL 1006(if he's still around) will be coming to his new home in Md. to the breeders loft.He's already showed me that much.When the time nears I'll send you My address so you get him to the Right place.


----------



## kbraden

Mine also, 2810 will be either coming home to me or going to another flyer. Will know more closer to the end of races.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Worked up a little spread sheet to see which birds are in the lead. I used place value. I did not count the birds held back. I used total places and divided by how many races the bird was in and found an average place. COV averaged 1.75 place 1105 2nd etc. Not fool proof but it shows the top birds. Racing four races instead of three should count for something. 

Race #1	Race #2	Race # 3	Race #4	Total Pts	AV Place
COV 33	33	rackerman	1	4	1	1	7	1.75
AVC 1105	1105	happy	1	1	3	3	8	2
LL 1006	1006	Josepe	2	2	4	5	13	3.25
GFTG 105	105	Ace in the Hole	1	8	2	11	3.666666667
AVC 1108	1108	happy	2	9	1	6	18	4.5
COV 26	26	mtripOH	13	2	2	3	20	5
GFTG 113	113	blong boy	2	6 8	16	5.333333333
ARPU 21600	21600	pigeonnewb	12	1	3	7	23	5.75
VITA KING 789	789	Thunderbird Racing	8	7	9	1	25	6.25
VITA KING 785	785	Thunderbird Racing	4	2	15	7	28	7
MTP 1441	1441	southtown racers	9	3	11	6	29	7.25
MTP 1442	1442	southtown racers	5	7	15	4	31	7.75
OCALA 1082	1082	West	5	6 15	26	8.666666667
NEPLS 1802	1802	loonecho	10	8	7	12	37	9.25
ARPU 2810	2810	kbraden	13	15	5	5	38	9.5
SD 412	412	Kalapati	7	15 8	30	10
TORR 357	357	Gnuretiree	15	15 2	32	10.66666667
COV 32	32	rackerman	15	15	12	2	44	11
ARPU 19252	19252	eyespyer	9	15 9	33	11
KEYHOLE 424	424	jpsnapdy	9	15 10	34	11.33333333
ZEPPELIN 6	6	bbcdon	5	15 15	35	11.66666667
NEPLS 1827	1827	loonecho	15	7	15	15	52	13
SPO 706	706	JHoll	15	15 11	41	13.66666667
LNC 11314	11314	Crazy Pete	11	15 15	41	13.66666667
TRC 11464	11464	Lucky Loft	11	15	15	15	56	14
JEDDS 5010	5010	Beaverbandit	14	15 15	44	14.66666667
LKY 1063	1063	Kastle Loft	15	15	15	15	60	15
I 21582	21582	First To Hatch	15	15 15	45	15
JEDDS 5006	5006	Beaverbandit	15	15	15	15	60	15


----------



## hillfamilyloft

I gave late birds 15th place. I know this is loose, but the top 10 or so birds are the strongest. I did not take distance etc into account. These are just the birds still in the race.


----------



## conditionfreak

Using your figures above, "happy" would win a "best performance by a loft" or put another way, the "best average for a single loft" award. The total for happy's two entries would be an average of 6.5, which is way ahead of anyone else for a two bird average performance.

The next closest would be rackerman with a 12.75 average for his two bird entry.

Then Thunderbird Racing with a two bird total of 13.25

This just illustrates how close this competition really is. We are only half way through the competition. There are at least two dozen birds that could win this contest. Any of the front runners could disappear tomorrow. Literally.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Things would shift a bit if I did a point system say 15 for 1st and so on but not by much. This is where the birds that flew four races would step above some that flew three. Don't know what Flap is using, but I bet the best surviving bird will be the winner no matter how you look at it.


----------



## rackerman

Tom, I did Pm you awhile ago and told you Cov33 & Cov32 will be sent to me I am hoping for offspring from Cov33 for next years race!


----------



## Josepe

"This just illustrates how close this competition really is. We are only half way through the competition. There are at least two dozen birds that could win this contest. Any of the front runners could disappear tomorrow. Literally."


Very True


----------



## conditionfreak

rackerman said:


> Tom, I did Pm you awhile ago and told you Cov33 & Cov32 will be sent to me I am hope for offspring from Cov33 for next years race!


This year I sent siblings from my last year "survivor" of this event, mated to the best young bird Flapdoodle had in his loft. I figured if mine flew that course and did okay, was mated to the best bird in Toms loft that year. I would be okay for that course this year. I wanted to establish a tradition of always sending band numbers 50 and 100, and always offspring of the previous years survivors of this event. My figuring was that if the parents did well on this specific course, their children would have a decent chance at doing well on this specific course.

I was out after the first race.  I dead and one MIA. So from now on, tradition is out the window. I am going to send what I think is best. 

Even if they are ugly. 

Pigeon racing is like blind dating. Sometimes it works out beautifully. But often: meh


----------



## Gnuretiree

I will be sending the money to ship TORR357 home when we wrap this up. Since it is a two bird box, I'd gladly take any other bird left standing at the end of the season if you're having trouble placing it. 
Hugh


----------



## ace in the hole

It's a little early to be desiding what you'll be doing with your birds after this years PT races. We are only half way through the races and the longer harder races are yet to come. We have already lost 1/2 of the birds entered so if you have a coin handy you might want to flip it to see if those birds might be there at the end.


----------



## loonecho

If either or both of my birds survive the entire season, I will not be requesting to get them back. I have numerous siblings from the same parents. If any other PT members are interested in them, I would offer to them first if they arrange to have Tom ship the birds to them. 

NEPLS 1827 is a blue bar hen and although she has not proven to be a great "racer" so far, she is a good "homer" as she somehow keeps getting back to the loft.

NEPLS 1802 is a dominant opal check with some white splashing in the head and neck and a few white flights. I believe it is a cockbird. He has not been to the top of the sheet yet but has finished no worse than 12th (loft) in all four of his races. I have a pedigree for his sire (from Tom Barnhart loft) and could provide that to whoever take him. Dam was an Indigo velvet hen but I don't have a pedigree for her. 

Hope they survive the final four races. Let me know if you are interested in taking them at the end.

Jim


----------



## conditionfreak

EVERYONE INTERESTED IN PARTICIPATING IN THIS EVENT NEXT YEAR. Please make sure you visit the "other" thread and sign up. There are only 12 perches left for the 2012 PT Classic.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f14/if-there-going-to-be-a-2012-pigeon-talk-classic-56358-6.html


----------



## loonecho

Walt, I don't see Becky's name on the list. I know she requested 2 perchs as well.

Jim


----------



## conditionfreak

loonecho said:


> Walt, I don't see Becky's name on the list. I know she requested 2 perchs as well.
> 
> Jim


hmmm, she is on the list early on page 5 of that thread, then later she is off. I guess I copied and pasted badly. But she is there now. Maybe Ganus entering scared her off the list.  (just kidding)

I will recheck the list with all "commitment postings", to make sure I didn't miss anyone else.

I emailed THE Mike Ganus to see if it is him or not, that entered this thing. I have not heard back from him.


----------



## Thunderbird Racing

makes me wanna change a Eminem song..."Would the real Mike Ganus please stand up?"....


----------



## conditionfreak

Time for a mid week laugh:


I love this Doctor!

Q: Doctor, I've heard that cardiovascular exercise can prolong life.
Is this true?
A: Your heart only good for so many beats, and that it... Don't
waste on exercise.. Everything wear out eventually. Speeding up heart not
make you live longer; it like saying you extend life of car by driving
faster. Want to live longer? Take nap.

Q: Should I reduce my alcohol intake?
A: No, not at all. Wine made from fruit. Brandy is distilled
wine, that mean they take water out of fruity bit so you get even more of
goodness that way Beer also made of grain. Bottom up!

Q: How can I calculate my body/fat ratio?
A: Well, if you have body and you have fat, your ratio one to one.
If you have two bodies, your ratio two to one, etc.

Q: What are some of the advantages of participating in a regular
exercise program?
A: Can't think of single one, sorry. My philosophy is: No
pain...good!

Q: Aren't fried foods bad for you?
A: YOU NOT LISTENING! Food are fried these day in vegetable oil..
In fact, they permeated by it. How could getting more vegetable be bad for
you?!?

Q: Will sit-ups help prevent me from getting a little soft around
the middle?
A: Definitely not! When you exercise muscle, it get bigger. You
should only be doing sit-up if you want bigger stomach.

Q: Is chocolate bad for me?
A: Are you crazy?!? HEL-LO-O!! Cocoa bean! Another vegetable!
It best feel-good food around!

Q: Is swimming good for your figure?
A: If swimming good for your figure, explain whale to me..

Q: Is getting in shape important for my lifestyle?
A: Hey! 'Round' is shape!

Well... I hope this has cleared up any misconceptions you may have
had about food and diets.

Remember Grasshopper:
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of
arriving safely in an attractive and well-preserved body, but rather to skid
in sideways - Coffee in one hand - chocolate in the other - body thoroughly
used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO-HOO, what a ride!!" Master
Chen

AND.....
For those of you who watch what you eat, here's the final word on
nutrition and health It's a relief to know the truth after all those
conflicting nutritional studies.

1. The Japanese eat very little fat and suffer fewer heart attacks
than Americans.
2. The Mexicans eat a lot of fat and suffer fewer heart attacks than
Americans.
3. The Chinese drink very little red wine and suffer fewer heart
attacks than Americans.
4. The Italians drink a lot of red wine and suffer fewer heart
attacks than Americans..
5. The Germans drink a lot of beer and eat lots of sausages and fats
and suffer fewer heart attacks than Americans.

CONCLUSION: Eat and drink what you like. Speaking English is
apparently what kills you.


----------



## rackerman

*LOL, YOUR KIDDING ME*


conditionfreak said:


> Time for a mid week laugh:
> 
> 
> I love this Doctor!
> 
> Q: Doctor, I've heard that cardiovascular exercise can prolong life.
> Is this true?
> A: Your heart only good for so many beats, and that it... Don't
> waste on exercise.. Everything wear out eventually. Speeding up heart not
> make you live longer; it like saying you extend life of car by driving
> faster. Want to live longer? Take nap.
> 
> Q: Should I reduce my alcohol intake?
> A: No, not at all. Wine made from fruit. Brandy is distilled
> wine, that mean they take water out of fruity bit so you get even more of
> goodness that way Beer also made of grain. Bottom up!
> 
> Q: How can I calculate my body/fat ratio?
> A: Well, if you have body and you have fat, your ratio one to one.
> If you have two bodies, your ratio two to one, etc.
> 
> Q: What are some of the advantages of participating in a regular
> exercise program?
> A: Can't think of single one, sorry. My philosophy is: No
> pain...good!
> 
> Q: Aren't fried foods bad for you?
> A: YOU NOT LISTENING! Food are fried these day in vegetable oil..
> In fact, they permeated by it. How could getting more vegetable be bad for
> you?!?
> 
> Q: Will sit-ups help prevent me from getting a little soft around
> the middle?
> A: Definitely not! When you exercise muscle, it get bigger. You
> should only be doing sit-up if you want bigger stomach.
> 
> Q: Is chocolate bad for me?
> A: Are you crazy?!? HEL-LO-O!! Cocoa bean! Another vegetable!
> It best feel-good food around!
> 
> Q: Is swimming good for your figure?
> A: If swimming good for your figure, explain whale to me..
> 
> Q: Is getting in shape important for my lifestyle?
> A: Hey! 'Round' is shape!
> 
> Well... I hope this has cleared up any misconceptions you may have
> had about food and diets.
> 
> Remember Grasshopper:
> Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of
> arriving safely in an attractive and well-preserved body, but rather to skid
> in sideways - Coffee in one hand - chocolate in the other - body thoroughly
> used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO-HOO, what a ride!!" Master
> Chen
> 
> AND.....
> For those of you who watch what you eat, here's the final word on
> nutrition and health It's a relief to know the truth after all those
> conflicting nutritional studies.
> 
> 1. The Japanese eat very little fat and suffer fewer heart attacks
> than Americans.
> 2. The Mexicans eat a lot of fat and suffer fewer heart attacks than
> Americans.
> 3. The Chinese drink very little red wine and suffer fewer heart
> attacks than Americans.
> 4. The Italians drink a lot of red wine and suffer fewer heart
> attacks than Americans..
> 5. The Germans drink a lot of beer and eat lots of sausages and fats
> and suffer fewer heart attacks than Americans.
> 
> CONCLUSION: Eat and drink what you like. Speaking English is
> apparently what kills you.


----------



## Timber

Sent ya a PM...



loonecho said:


> If either or both of my birds survive the entire season, I will not be requesting to get them back. I have numerous siblings from the same parents. If any other PT members are interested in them, I would offer to them first if they arrange to have Tom ship the birds to them.
> 
> NEPLS 1827 is a blue bar hen and although she has not proven to be a great "racer" so far, she is a good "homer" as she somehow keeps getting back to the loft.
> 
> NEPLS 1802 is a dominant opal check with some white splashing in the head and neck and a few white flights. I believe it is a cockbird. He has not been to the top of the sheet yet but has finished no worse than 12th (loft) in all four of his races. I have a pedigree for his sire (from Tom Barnhart loft) and could provide that to whoever take him. Dam was an Indigo velvet hen but I don't have a pedigree for her.
> 
> Hope they survive the final four races. Let me know if you are interested in taking them at the end.
> 
> Jim


----------



## Timber

Tom....please list OCALA-1082 back under my name, as Tim will be under military orders at that time. I sent ya a PM about it as well.

Thanks !


----------



## loonecho

loonecho said:


> If either or both of my birds survive the entire season, I will not be requesting to get them back. I have numerous siblings from the same parents. If any other PT members are interested in them, I would offer to them first if they arrange to have Tom ship the birds to them.
> 
> NEPLS 1827 is a blue bar hen and although she has not proven to be a great "racer" so far, she is a good "homer" as she somehow keeps getting back to the loft.
> 
> NEPLS 1802 is a dominant opal check with some white splashing in the head and neck and a few white flights. I believe it is a cockbird. He has not been to the top of the sheet yet but has finished no worse than 12th (loft) in all four of his races. I have a pedigree for his sire (from Tom Barnhart loft) and could provide that to whoever take him. Dam was an Indigo velvet hen but I don't have a pedigree for her.
> 
> Hope they survive the final four races. Let me know if you are interested in taking them at the end.
> 
> Jim


My PT birds are spoken for if they survive the season. Thanks for the interest.

Jim


----------



## PigeonVilla

Whoa has this thread ever gone off course, why cant people just sit back and enjoy it for what it is  All that work and very little appreciation , the guy even built a new loft for the birds and did the best he could . I think its going off very well in spite of everyone that thinks differently, let the birds speak for themselves and I think most have already done that so far. Mistakes happen no matter what loft or races birds are in so ease up and enjoy the fact that someone else is doing all the work here .


----------



## Thunderbird Racing

I think the biggest mistake Tom made was not charging an expensive enough perch fee for all the BS he has had to deal with.


----------



## ace in the hole

Timber said:


> Tom....please list OCALA-1082 back under my name, as Tim will be under military orders at that time. I sent ya a PM about it as well.
> 
> Thanks !


Tom should not have to deal with all of this BS. You all need to sit back and watch the race.

*Timber*, You had birds under your name. This bird was sent in for *West* and should be flown that way.


----------



## rackerman

*Mark, I have to say I totally agree wiyh you! Everyone needs to relax and enjoy the races. Where else could you have done this for $20.oo?? Lets have fun and RACE!!!*


ace in the hole said:


> Tom should not have to deal with all of this BS. You all need to sit back and watch the race.
> *Timber*, You had birds under your name. This bird was sent in for *West* and should be flown that way.


----------



## Flapdoodle

Timber said:


> Tom....please list OCALA-1082 back under my name, as Tim will be under military orders at that time. I sent ya a PM about it as well.
> 
> Thanks !


Got your PM and West's. The bird is headed back your way after the season.


----------



## Timber

ace in the hole said:


> Tom should not have to deal with all of this BS. You all need to sit back and watch the race.
> 
> *Timber*, You had birds under your name. This bird was sent in for *West* and should be flown that way.


Ace,

Why is it that everytime I post something, you have to chim in and be such a smart tail? The only reason it was posted in the open forum as I had not gotten a reply from him through PM. But it seemed that he was responding to everyones normal postings. 

I am haveing a blast with this, if they are in my name or not as I was the breeder. So take your own advise, and relax and enjoy the races. That doesnt mean that some of you hard butts can be such a critic to everyone who post something that you feel isnt right. Especially if it doesnt concern you at all. 

Tom has done an excellent job, especially all that he has been through! But he also knew what he was getting into based on last years race. Emails and PM's that are not favorable are the nature of the beast. My message to him was not vulgor, disrespectful or hateful. So dont answer for him as he is capable. 

You all have to much time on your hands if your being the Post POLICE......LOL


----------



## Timber

Flapdoodle said:


> Got your PM and West's. The bird is headed back your way after the season.


Thank you Tom! 


See Ace........


----------



## Flapdoodle

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_US&hl=en_US&key=0AvXp0Jk-p0iTdGIwYjhiZGxIU1RWWllEWklubV9SYmc&output=html


The new clock is up and running. I think I figured out how to get it to talk to the computer. This was the print out from a short toss today with another loft. (From Blue Canyon about 40 miles)

COV 32 is not listed. I had three unrecognized birds trap in. I am sure he is one of those. I checked the clock and he is not listed as an allocated bird (so would be unrecognized). I will check his band before basketing tomorrow night.


----------



## conditionfreak

Uh oh. COV-33 was behind a minute or so. COV-32's position is unknown. COV-26 is nearing the top, as I predicted. I still think #26 is going to win a race before this is over (but I used to think that if the earth was actually round, I would fall off of it. So what do I know).

I'm only posting about birds I am familiar with. There are some in this training toss that are new to the first drop. Good to see that. As Obama says, "spread the wealth". 

Speaking of that. I used to referee basketball games for young kids, and "we" did not keep score because they didn't want to hurt any kids self esteem. What a crock. A sporting game with no scores posted. Every kid got a winners trophy at the end of the season. Even the kids that lost every game (IF we would have kept score).

I want my trophy for this years (and last years) PT Classic events.  I participated!


----------



## ace in the hole

Timber said:


> Ace,
> 
> Why is it that everytime I post something, you have to chim in and be such a smart tail?


Since you asked.

Remember two years ago when I told you the only way I would sell you that pair of breeders is if you would send me a pair of young off from them. If not I would keep them, but you promised you would. Then you went behind my back and got the pedigree from Randy for the cock and sold it on an online auction before you bred them. Remember when you told me the hen had laid and you had fostered the eggs and would send the young to me when they were ready. I do know you forgot to send them if they ever existed.

Remember, I do and since you asked I'm glad to let others know how you do bussiness. See, I don't forget.

Ace/Mark


----------



## ace in the hole

Flapdoodle said:


> Got your PM and West's. The bird is headed back your way after the season.


I thought Timber was talking about switching the bird into his name for the rest of the race. I'm sure you could tell that from my post. Sorry


----------



## Josepe

New clock sounds and looks Good.I beleive some leads will change this race with some fading back as the distances expand.
Though I don't think you can guage that yet by a 40 mile toss.


----------



## kbraden

Flapdoodle said:


> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_US&hl=en_US&key=0AvXp0Jk-p0iTdGIwYjhiZGxIU1RWWllEWklubV9SYmc&output=html
> 
> 
> The new clock is up and running. I think I figured out how to get it to talk to the computer. This was the print out from a short toss today with another loft. (From Blue Canyon about 40 miles)


That's awesome! This should be easier for you too, I would think, not having to hand type in the weekly positions. What kind of clock did you end up getting? (for my future reference)


----------



## rackerman

*I'm getting ready to go work the night shift, just want to wish everyone GOOD LUCK tomorrow.....GO COV BIRDS!!!!*


----------



## JaxRacingLofts

*Fun Run*

Looks like my bird didn't make it..there is a chance he could be hanging out at another person's loft but more likely then not something got him.

Thanx Tom for building the loft to sponsor this event and accepting everyones birds and training them as your own and paying for their feed, vaccinations,training tosses, Club shipping fees, etc...etc.. Thats a helluva endeavor to undertake. As for my birds poor performance I'll have to take responsibility for it due to shipping him too early plus add in the 4 days it took due to my post office. I'm impressed my bird even made it this far. 

My other entry that was lost during training came from a very consistent pair of Fabry's that flew in every race that flew in 2008-2010. I wasn't told they won anything but then again they were raced out to 600 miles and didn't get lost or killed by BOP so that says something for their consistency. 
I think if I was loosing to one particular loft year after year I would change my strategy also so I understand if your going to get your own birds and putting them on a system under your control. If you want to beat the best you have to be the best. 

I'm also thinking about getting the Beiche system DVD and seeing how these top lofts are using his system to dominate the competition. It seems that Sierra Ranch is using with outstanding results. Anyway If JAX 2618 comes back I'm curious to see how he handles the longer race stations but seeing as he is MIA I guess I'll have to see how his siblings do for myself. 

Like someone else said on here before me...where else can you get this much entertainment for $20. Thanx again.


----------



## loonecho

Josepe said:


> Looks like only two races actually go to the middle distance?-Carlin and Elko.
> 
> Originally Posted by Flapdoodle
> Fernley 117 miles
> Lovelock 177 miles
> Imlay 203 miles
> Winnemucca 233 miles
> Valmy 253 miles
> Carlin 300 Miles
> Battle Mtn 258 Miles
> Elko 318 Miles
> 
> !


Was wondering how far todays race was so I went back and found this and thought I would post it forward. Looks like 253 miles today. Good luck to everyone!

Jim


----------



## ace in the hole

Good luck all.

My 105 is on a mission today. She is going to beat COV 33 home.


----------



## mtripOH

I think COV26 is going to surprise y'all! 
Good luck to all racers today. May all the birds make it back to the loft.


----------



## kbraden

Supposed to be a hot one today folks, unseasonable highs of 90 with chance of isolated thunderstorms. Thunderstorms don't usually begin to brew til after 2pm tho, so most birds should be home or close to it by then.


----------



## rackerman

*I also want to wish everyone good luck today. I hope Cov33 does well!! I know as long as he makes it back I will be happy. I am on pins & neddles and have been all weekGO COV BIRDS!!!!!*


----------



## Josepe

I believe this will change hands(or wings this race.


----------



## rackerman

*Just watching for updates, but it looks to me like most of you are losing interest?? Come on, lets pump it up!!! Quit worring about next years race and get into this years......
Go Cov33 and the other Cov birds. Good luck Josh with Cov26!!*


----------



## jpsnapdy

No results yet... What's up, doc?


----------



## Action

*Tough*

Its going to be a tough 1 today.
Jack


----------



## rackerman

I'm pumped up for next years race too, thanks to Conditonfreak, but this is the real deal right now!! Lets get this thread going..........


----------



## bbcdon

I hope Flap starts posting soon, the waiting is so hard!!!


----------



## kbraden

Looking outside and checked local weather map, thunderstorms are beginning to brew to the south west, but right now is still a clear shot a straight down I80 thru Reno all the way to Tom's. We may all get lucky on this one.


----------



## rackerman

Tom, I don't know if your inbox is full, but I sent you two PMS'


----------



## rackerman

*I am on pins and neddles too......*


bbcdon said:


> I hope Flap starts posting soon, the waiting is so hard!!!


----------



## rackerman

*Don, Wish you well on this one, you deserve it........*


bbcdon said:


> I hope Flap starts posting soon, the waiting is so hard!!!


----------



## ace in the hole

With this race being 253 miles we are looking at about a 5 hour race or maybe a little more. 5 1/2 hours is still 1349 YPM. Tom should be getting birds about now if they were let up at 7:30.


----------



## bbcdon

rackerman said:


> *Don, Wish you well on this one, you deserve it........*


Thank you very much, but the best birds should win.


----------



## conditionfreak

Just got done cleaning my young bird loft and thought the results would be posted by now. But I forgot about the time zone difference.

It will be awhile longer, obviously.


----------



## Flapdoodle

Just got back from soccer. Tough day... No birds and a pretty strong breeze from the south.


----------



## conditionfreak

I'm looking for one of those SouthTown Racers to be at or near the top today.


----------



## Flapdoodle

*First A bird COV 26*

The breeze is now a pretty good wind


----------



## ace in the hole

Flapdoodle said:


> Just got back from soccer. Tough day... No birds and a pretty strong breeze from the south.


What time did the birds go up?


----------



## ace in the hole

Those darn COV birds are really proving to be hard to beat. Still looking for my 105 to beat COV 33.


----------



## Flapdoodle

ace in the hole said:


> What time did the birds go up?


They released at 7:00 and 8:00.


----------



## Flapdoodle

updated the list. We did not send a full 15 to either race. I held a few back again. Some birds have missed three in a row.  It has just worked out that way.


----------



## conditionfreak

conditionfreak said:


> Uh oh. COV-33 was behind a minute or so. COV-32's position is unknown. *COV-26 is nearing the top, as I predicted. I still think #26 is going to win a race before this is over*


I thought COV-26 would do better in longer races. Not from sprint birds. More for those 200 and 300 mile races. The parents throw birds like that.

Congratulations Josiah (mtripoh). WooHoo!


----------



## Thunderbird Racing

conditionfreak said:


> I thought COV-26 would do better in longer races. Not from sprint birds. More for those 200 and 300 mile races. The parents throw birds like that.
> 
> Congratulations Josiah (mtripoh). WooHoo!


congrats to both of you, I'm surprised there is only one bird home so far


----------



## Flapdoodle

105, 1006, 424 all from the A race came in together. Still no B birds.

I talked to the guy we train with and he has 5 A birds and 1 B bird. 

I have another two hours before I need to go to knock-off. Send some positive vibes this way that we get more birds (a B bird would be great).


----------



## ace in the hole

Well there you go Josepe. That 1006 is back on track following my bird in.

Ok Tom, I'm thinking B birds now...


----------



## Flapdoodle

Just got the call. Knock-off will be tomorrow. I guess others are having similar results.


----------



## mtripOH

WoooHooo!! I had a good feeling about today's race. Josiah is not home and does not know the results yet. I can not wait for him to get home and check out the results! Sending good thoughts and vibes for ALL birds to make it back home!


----------



## kbraden

Reno is getting hammered right now with thunderstorms & rain, weather alert just popped up on my phone.

GREATER LAKE TAHOE AREA-GREATER RENO-CARSON CITY-MINDEN AREA-
343 PM PDT SAT SEP 24 2011

...THUNDERSTORMS WITH GUSTY OUTFLOW WINDS IN RENO-SPARKS AREA...

AT 333 PM PDT...NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE METEOROLOGISTS WERE TRACKING
A STRONG THUNDERSTORM NEAR RENO...AND MOVING NORTH AT 10 MPH.

LIGHTNING...MODERATE RAIN WITH RAINFALL AMOUNTS UP TO ONE
HALF INCH REDUCING VISIBILITIES TO LESS THAN THREE MILES...AND
STRONG GUSTY WINDS OF UP TO 50 MPH ARE EXPECTED WITH THIS STORM.

* LOCATIONS AFFECTED INCLUDE...RENO...SPANISH SPRINGS...SPARKS...
STEAD...SUN VALLEY AND COLD SPRINGS VALLEY.

IF YOU ARE IN THE PATH OF THIS STORM...SEEK SHELTER INDOORS AND STAY
AWAY FROM WINDOWS. STAY TUNED TO NOAA ALL HAZARDS RADIO...
WEATHER.GOV/RENO ON THE INTERNET...OR LOCAL MEDIA FOR LATER UPDATES
AND POSSIBLE WARNINGS.


----------



## rackerman

*Congats!!!!!! I was hoping one of the Cov birds would take 1st!!! Wow Walt, them Cov birds are sure amazing!!!! *


mtripOH said:


> WoooHooo!! I had a good feeling about today's race. Josiah is not home and does not know the results yet. I can not wait for him to get home and check out the results! Sending good thoughts and vibes for ALL birds to make it back home!


----------



## mtripOH

rackerman said:


> *Congats!!!!!! I was hoping one of the Cov birds would take 1st!!! Wow Walt, them Cov birds are sure amazing!!!! *


Walt's the man!! Holding my breath for COV32 and COV33. Russ, thanks for the congrats. Josiah still is not here. I want to call him so bad but I want him to check the results himself. Waiting for him and the hubby to get home is almost as bad as waiting for the results. How exciting!


----------



## Josepe

Congrats Cov 26!Conditionfreak called that one right.Gettin' closer again Ace,we'll Get Ya on the Next One!.Hope they all get back okay and have some good times.Hopefully Flap will post a printout when it's over so we can see the times like on the training toss. Keep Pluggin' 1006,that Flag's gonna be Yours eventually.


----------



## rackerman

*Yes, Walts the MAN and his birds are starting to prove that...*


mtripOH said:


> Walt's the man!! Holding my breath for COV32 and COV33. Russ, thanks for the congrats. Josiah still is not here. I want to call him so bad but I want him to check the results himself. Waiting for him and the hubby to get home is almost as bad as waiting for the results. How exciting!


----------



## mtripOH

I am on the edge on my seat waiting for more results. Tom just made a slight change on the list, so maybe he is getting ready to update with more birds. This is the part of racing that I hate.


----------



## rackerman

*Congrats ACE on 2nd. Your getting there...*


ace in the hole said:


> Well there you go Josepe. That 1006 is back on track following my bird in.
> 
> Ok Tom, I'm thinking B birds now...


----------



## Flapdoodle

The list is current, we have a couple of more. Still no B birds Getting cloudy and gusty winds.


----------



## mtripOH

I see COV33 is home now! Whew. Still holding out for the rest.


----------



## rackerman

*YHEPPY, Cov33 is back!! I was really starting to worry! 6th is ok with me, he's back safe and sound*


----------



## Flapdoodle

MTP 1442 1st B Bird!
As I was on my way back to the house COV 32 trapped in for the #2 spot. 

Tough day today. Amazing birds...


----------



## rackerman

*YEAH, Cov32, 2nd in B race!!!*


----------



## Josepe

Congrats Southtown. And Hats off to Walt's breeding program.And also Randy and Ace's joint breeding collaboration that's produced birds that's been in the top perentage birds from the start.Come on the rest of you birds!


----------



## rackerman

*Thanks for keeping us all posted with weather updates! I hope the rest of the birds make it back safe & sound!*


kbraden said:


> Reno is getting hammered right now with thunderstorms & rain, weather alert just popped up on my phone.
> 
> GREATER LAKE TAHOE AREA-GREATER RENO-CARSON CITY-MINDEN AREA-
> 343 PM PDT SAT SEP 24 2011
> 
> ...THUNDERSTORMS WITH GUSTY OUTFLOW WINDS IN RENO-SPARKS AREA...
> 
> AT 333 PM PDT...NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE METEOROLOGISTS WERE TRACKING
> A STRONG THUNDERSTORM NEAR RENO...AND MOVING NORTH AT 10 MPH.
> 
> LIGHTNING...MODERATE RAIN WITH RAINFALL AMOUNTS UP TO ONE
> HALF INCH REDUCING VISIBILITIES TO LESS THAN THREE MILES...AND
> STRONG GUSTY WINDS OF UP TO 50 MPH ARE EXPECTED WITH THIS STORM.
> 
> * LOCATIONS AFFECTED INCLUDE...RENO...SPANISH SPRINGS...SPARKS...
> STEAD...SUN VALLEY AND COLD SPRINGS VALLEY.
> 
> IF YOU ARE IN THE PATH OF THIS STORM...SEEK SHELTER INDOORS AND STAY
> AWAY FROM WINDOWS. STAY TUNED TO NOAA ALL HAZARDS RADIO...
> WEATHER.GOV/RENO ON THE INTERNET...OR LOCAL MEDIA FOR LATER UPDATES
> AND POSSIBLE WARNINGS.


----------



## conditionfreak

WOW. Just WOW.

Prior to the race results, I PM'd rackerman and predicted that COV-33 would finish about 4th. It actually finished 6th.

I also said more than once that COV-26 was going to win a race when the races got longer. It did today.

I also predicted that one of the Southtown Racers birds would be at or near the top today. It got 1st in the B race.

Now....I'm going to a casino and predict what the number on the roulette wheel is going to be. 

Then after I call that right, I'm going to Disney Land.


----------



## conditionfreak

Congrats Ace in the hole. Your bird was right there on a tough long day. You beat Josepe by just a tad. His birds are always up there in the mix.


----------



## conditionfreak

I want to share a portion of a PM exchange between rackerman and I, that occurred today.

We were discussing todays race and rackerman posted this (along with some other comments about the COV birds), via private message.

"I hope this is another good race for us!! Good luck to us (including Josh)!!
I hope Cov26 pulls through!! I think he will."

Remember, COV-26 is not rackermans bird. It is mtripoh's bird, in the name of Josiah, a junior member. This is a telling statement coming from the guy whos bird is the current leader of this competition. He is actually rooting for (and accurately predicting) for mtripoh's bird #26 to win todays race.

That is one nice thought and statement. Rooting for the opponent. Congrates to rackerman.

mtripoh. I posted this because I just thought you should know.


----------



## conditionfreak

rackerman said:


> *Congats!!!!!! I was hoping one of the Cov birds would take 1st!!! Wow Walt, them Cov birds are sure amazing!!!! *


All it proves is that it ain't my birds causing my disappointing results here at home.

It's me.


----------



## rackerman

*Walt is right. I was pulling for Cov26 today. It sure is amazing how these Cov birds are doing!! I feel they will keep it up too. I am looking for Cov32 to be better in the last few races for some reason
I'm so very happy for our junior member Josiah and will keep pulling for Cov26 as well as Cov32 & Cov33. This sure is getting to my nerves the closer we get to the end.
Walt, you sure are pretty acurate with your predictions. KEEP IT UP*


conditionfreak said:


> I want to share a portion of a PM exchange between rackerman and I, that occurred today.
> 
> We were discussing todays race and rackerman posted this (along with some other comments about the COV birds), via private message.
> 
> "I hope this is another good race for us!! Good luck to us (including Josh)!!
> I hope Cov26 pulls through!! I think he will."
> 
> Remember, COV-26 is not rackermans bird. It is mtripoh's bird, in the name of Josiah, a junior member. This is a telling statement coming from the guy whos bird is the current leader of this competition. He is actually rooting for (and accurately predicting) for mtripoh's bird #26 to win todays race.
> 
> That is one nice thought and statement. Rooting for the opponent. Congrates to rackerman.
> 
> mtripoh. I posted this because I just thought you should know.


----------



## rackerman

*You sure were right! Cograts SouthTown Racers!*


conditionfreak said:


> I'm looking for one of those SouthTown Racers to be at or near the top today.


----------



## jpsnapdy

Flapdoodle said:


> 105, 1006, 424 all from the A race came in together. Still no B birds.
> 
> I talked to the guy we train with and he has 5 A birds and 1 B bird.
> 
> I have another two hours before I need to go to knock-off. Send some positive vibes this way that we get more birds (a B bird would be great).


So 424 is proving what I thought she was at last! YEAH!
Congrats to the winners and...WALT!


----------



## Josepe

Yea 424 is starting to Stretch It's Wings and Awaken also.Congrats on moving up in this one.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Josepe said:


> Congrats Southtown. And Hats off to Walt's breeding program.And also Randy and Ace's joint breeding collaboration that's produced birds that's been in the top perentage birds from the start.Come on the rest of you birds!


Probably be a good to mix in some of that COV blood with my Hill Family Loft birds. Always have the philosophy that if someone beats you or has equally good birds that those are the ones you want to try crossing in. Mark's 801 birds kept up with mine. Crossing them in has worked very well.


----------



## jpsnapdy

Josepe said:


> Yea 424 is starting to Stretch It's Wings and Awaken also.Congrats on moving up in this one.


Thanx! I hope it lasts...


----------



## jpsnapdy

hillfamilyloft said:


> Probably be a good to mix in some of that COV blood with my Hill Family Loft birds. Always have the philosophy that if someone beats you or has equally good birds that those are the ones you want to try crossing in. Mark's 801 birds kept up with mine. Crossing them in has worked very well.


Yep! My philosophy too for those select crosses.


----------



## jpsnapdy

Flapdoodle said:


> MTP 1442 1st B Bird!
> As I was on my way back to the house COV 32 trapped in for the #2 spot.
> 
> Tough day today. Amazing birds...


When the going gets tough... The tough get going!!!
Congratulations to all you guys!


----------



## jpsnapdy

conditionfreak said:


> WOW. Just WOW.
> 
> Prior to the race results, I PM'd rackerman and predicted that COV-33 would finish about 4th. It actually finished 6th.
> 
> I also said more than once that COV-26 was going to win a race when the races got longer. It did today.
> 
> I also predicted that one of the Southtown Racers birds would be at or near the top today. It got 1st in the B race.
> 
> Now....I'm going to a casino and predict what the number on the roulette wheel is going to be.
> 
> Then after I call that right, I'm going to Disney Land.


Bon voyage!


----------



## mtripOH

conditionfreak said:


> That is one nice thought and statement. Rooting for the opponent. Congrates to rackerman.
> 
> mtripoh. I posted this because I just thought you should know.


Thanks Walt, for sharing. Russ is a nice guy and through PM's he has sent us I know that he is not only cheering on his birds to win but for all the birds. This PT Classic has been fun and for the most part not as "cut throat" as I had expected. Winning is always nice but I think having a winning attitude (like cheering everyone on and praying for all the birds to make it back to Tom's) is more important and that is just what we are trying to instill in Josiah. When he got home from his Mamaw's last evening he checked the results, yes he was excited, but he was more concerned about all the empty slots showing. I asked him if he wanted to post a comment here (he doesn't have his own user name and will post under my name) but he said he did not know what to say and wanted to wait for the others to make it home. Please note: I AM NOT one of those sappy moms that feel the score at a soccer or basketball game should not be kept so no one gets their feelings hurt. I am just a mom that loves the art of winning/losing, I believe it speaks volumes about a person.


----------



## mtripOH

conditionfreak said:


> WOW. Just WOW.
> 
> Prior to the race results, I PM'd rackerman and predicted that COV-33 would finish about 4th. It actually finished 6th.
> 
> I also said more than once that COV-26 was going to win a race when the races got longer. It did today.
> 
> I also predicted that one of the Southtown Racers birds would be at or near the top today. It got 1st in the B race.
> 
> Now....I'm going to a casino and predict what the number on the roulette wheel is going to be.
> 
> Then after I call that right, I'm going to Disney Land.


Do you have any insight on the powerball?  I don't need millions, just enough to build a new loft!!


----------



## rackerman

*Your right, I want to see any Cov bird win Sure wish Cov50 & 100 were in the mix. Now, that would have been interesting. *


mtripOH said:


> Thanks Walt, for sharing. Russ is a nice guy and through PM's he has sent us I know that he is not only cheering on his birds to win but for all the birds. This PT Classic has been fun and for the most part not as "cut throat" as I had expected. Winning is always nice but I think having a winning attitude (like cheering everyone on and praying for all the birds to make it back to Tom's) is more important and that is just what we are trying to instill in Josiah. When he got home from his Mamaw's last evening he checked the results, yes he was excited, but he was more concerned about all the empty slots showing. I asked him if he wanted to post a comment here (he doesn't have his own user name and will post under my name) but he said he did not know what to say and wanted to wait for the others to make it home. Please note: I AM NOT one of those sappy moms that feel the score at a soccer or basketball game should not be kept so no one gets their feelings hurt. I am just a mom that loves the art of winning/losing, I believe it speaks volumes about a person.


----------



## rackerman

I just recently talked with cabinlofts (Tony Hefner), he asked if there was any birds from his loft racing, so I am asking if anyone has any birds from his loft in this years race??


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## kbraden

Watched the news last night, Reno & Verdi just got absolutely hammered with nasty weather yesterday from 2-4pm. Crossed right thru where the birds would be flying. 4 people were struck by lightning while sitting in bleachers watching a high school soccer match! Hope more birds make it home this morning.


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## rackerman

I see 15 birds are still not accounted for, sure hope they make it back!!! What a bummer


----------



## Josepe

Wow,not good.Sure hope those empty slots on the sheet fill back up today.It would be a Shame to lose a bunch of birds at this point in the races.


----------



## rackerman

*Yes, I want to see them all back!!! Tom, PLEASE update ASAP with good news!!! *


Josepe said:


> Wow,not good.Sure hope those empty slots on the sheet fill back up today.It would be a Shame to lose a bunch of birds at this point in the races.


----------



## conditionfreak

Whan y'all get a minute to spare, could you please read my posting on this page (linked below) and let me know your thoughts about my 2013 PT Classic proposal.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f14/if-there-going-to-be-a-2012-pigeon-talk-classic-56358-9.html


I really hope that all of the birds from yesterdays race come home safe. Seems like it was one tough weather day.


----------



## Flapdoodle

I updated the list. A few birds have trickled in. I did have one bird sneak in last night after the sun set at dusk (kbraden).

I marked the birds that have trapped in today. 

I will bring in the clock tonight and see if I can get a list printed of trapping times. 

still out 9 birds


----------



## kbraden

Apparently mine had his rain gear & fog lamps on! Thanks for updating Tom!


----------



## First To Hatch

I wonder is mine a cock or hen?


----------



## Josepe

Atleast they're trickling in and hope they all make it back.Looking forward to the list with the times.Can you get the YPM from it also?


----------



## Crazy Pete

Congrats to the winners especially those COV birds, they seem to be kicking but this year. I wish it was my bird on top , don't we all though well thats racing. Look out next year, it will be LNC birds on the top. This year I sent birds out of an untested pair, I wont make that mistake next year. Who ever bred those COV birds you can be very proud as they have won with some prety stiff competion.
Dave


----------



## Josepe

Pete,
I thought you posted earlier that your 333 bird was out of two AU Champion birds?


----------



## SouthTown Racers

GOOD JOB to everbody whos birds were smart and tough enough to get through the storms! Im sure the rest were even smarter to go down durring the bad weather and will be home soon


----------



## Crazy Pete

Josepe
Both parents are AU champs, and all four gparents are AU champs. So I guess it doesn't always work to breed the best with the best.
Dave


----------



## Wingsonfire

Is there one more race? And by the way, congratulations to everyone that put birds in the races


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## kbraden

Wingsonfire said:


> Is there one more race? And by the way, congratulations to everyone that put birds in the races


There are 3 more races.

Next one is 300 miles, then 258, and finally 318.


----------



## Crazy Pete

I have faith, usually real bad storms will bring lost birds home. 
Dave


----------



## Wingsonfire

kbraden said:


> There are 3 more races.
> 
> Next one is 300 miles, then 258, and finally 318.


Thanks a lot


----------



## mtripOH

I am glad to see that the birds or trickling back home! All birds that make it back, in my book are winners. Hoping for clear skies for this weekend!


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Good Job Cov 26 on a top 10 finish in the club.


----------



## Josepe

Anymore birds Flap? Did you get the printout from the clock?


----------



## jpsnapdy

Crazy Pete said:


> Josepe
> Both parents are AU champs, and all four gparents are AU champs. So I guess it doesn't always work to breed the best with the best.
> Dave


No, it does not. What works better is best racer to best breeder.


----------



## jpsnapdy

SouthTown Racers said:


> GOOD JOB to everbody whos birds were smart and tough enough to get through the storms! Im sure the rest were even smarter to go down durring the bad weather and will be home soon


I wonder how they can do that? fly through a storm


----------



## jpsnapdy

Josepe said:


> Anymore birds Flap? Did you get the printout from the clock?


There's still 8 missing? Guess they would have got caught up by the storm?
I hope they make it back. 
Going through 3 more races with just 18 or so birds, with the rate of selection your region has, could be tough!


----------



## Josepe

May not still be 8 missing,Flap hasn't updated yet.Hopefully they'll be back on the list.But if it boils down to only 18 birds or so I think the ones that's been Consistent will be there til the end,barring any bad luck or anymore bad weather.And some of the birds that hasn't been consistent may start coming on,Like your bird has this race .Still Anything can happen,it ain't over til it's over


----------



## conditionfreak

With the three longest races to go, it looks like the champion/s will be those that flew in all of the races, and survived.

IMO, many very good birds have been lost. Just because a bird doesn't come home, does not mean it was not a very good racing pigeon. Bad things can and do happen to good racing pigeons.

I wonder if most here:

A) sent their best?
B) sent what happened to be ready at the right time?
C) sent something they were unsure of and wanted to test?
D) had many good options and had to make a decision by flipping a coin?

I will state that my personal entries were planned out since last years PT Classic. There was never a doubt what I was going to send. Just didn't work out well for me. IMO, I did not send my best. None of the COV birds originally entered in this competition are what I would consider my best, (but I might have to rethink that)  My best, IMO, were banded with money bands to be flown here at home. I actually sent better birds for others, than I did for myself, obviously.  I just wanted to try a pairing of two birds that had already flown and survived Flapdoodles course. Seemed to be a good plan at the time. Didn't work out though.

Next time!


----------



## Flapdoodle

*Clock Print Out*

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...iTdHJTVnlmUWxVb0xMNWtlVFlJYmFtSWc&output=html

No average speed or anything. It does not give me any options. 

No new birds since yesterday afternoons update with one exception.


----------



## Flapdoodle

Crazy Pete said:


> I have faith, usually real bad storms will bring lost birds home.
> Dave


You called it...Hill Family Loft GFTG 108 showed up after a two week "break".


----------



## Flapdoodle

conditionfreak said:


> With the three longest races to go, it looks like the champion/s will be those that flew in all of the races, and survived.
> 
> IMO, many very good birds have been lost. Just because a bird doesn't come home, does not mean it was not a very good racing pigeon. Bad things can and do happen to good racing pigeons.
> 
> I wonder if most here:
> 
> A) sent their best?
> B) sent what happened to be ready at the right time?
> C) sent something they were unsure of and wanted to test?
> D) had many good options and had to make a decision by flipping a coin?
> 
> I will state that my personal entries were planned out since last years PT Classic. There was never a doubt what I was going to send. Just didn't work out well for me. IMO, I did not send my best. None of the COV birds originally entered in this competition are what I would consider my best, (but I might have to rethink that)  My best, IMO, were banded with money bands to be flown here at home. I actually sent better birds for others, than I did for myself, obviously.  I just wanted to try a pairing of two birds that had already flown and survived Flapdoodles course. Seemed to be a good plan at the time. Didn't work out though.
> 
> Next time!


IMO there is no way anyone could know if they were sending there best at 30 days old. You don't ever know which is your best until after they race. I guess you could select based on past performance from your best breeding pair. I don't know anyone that has ever had a pair that raised all great babies year after year.


----------



## Flapdoodle

jpsnapdy said:


> There's still 8 missing? Guess they would have got caught up by the storm?
> I hope they make it back.
> Going through 3 more races with just 18 or so birds, with the rate of selection your region has, could be tough!


For our PT group it will come down to the "last bird standing". Maybe that is what it should say on the T-shirt for the winner.

Out of the club: We dropped one flyer completely, one only sent to the A race, and I think two others like us did not send 15 to each race.


----------



## kbraden

What bird is AU11ARPU 34698? Another stray you picked up?


----------



## Josepe

" IMO, many very good birds have been lost. Just because a bird doesn't come home, does not mean it was not a very good racing pigeon. Bad things can and do happen to good racing pigeons."


I agree,and why I've always said you also need some Luck,Anything can happen.


----------



## rackerman

[B said:


> Crazy Pete[/B];613106]Congrats to the winners especially those COV birds, they seem to be kicking but this year. I wish it was my bird on top , don't we all though well thats racing. Look out next year, it will be LNC birds on the top. This year I sent birds out of an untested pair, I wont make that mistake next year. Who ever bred those COV birds you can be very proud as they have won with some prety stiff competion.
> Dave


Crazy Pete, I thought you knew??? Conditionfreak bred them Cov birds!! They sure are some amazing birds....


----------



## Josepe

Flap Wrote:
For our PT group it will come down to the "last bird standing".

It shoud be the 'last bird(s)standing" with the best percentage place value.Something like Randy posted a while back.And should be decided on and posted for everyone to know before the remainder of the races.Possibly even a vote on whatever system to be used.


----------



## rackerman

*If it comes down to that, you know who I am rooting for Any Cov bird!! Go Cov birds*


Josepe said:


> Flap Wrote:
> For our PT group it will come down to the "last bird standing".
> 
> It shoud be the 'last bird(s)standing" with the best percentage place value.Something like Randy posted a while back.And should be decided on and posted for everyone to know before the remainder of the races.Possibly even a vote on whatever system to be used.


----------



## Josepe

3 more races for this to change hands(wings) again :


----------



## conditionfreak

Flapdoodle said:


> IMO there is no way anyone could know if they were sending there best at 30 days old. You don't ever know which is your best until after they race. I guess you could select based on past performance from your best breeding pair. I don't know anyone that has ever had a pair that raised all great babies year after year.


While I find it hard to disagree with your statement, I will just because I am ornery. 

If a flyer had to pick one bird from his babies, to send to a million dollar race, I doubt he (or she) would flip a coin.

When a flyer is deciding on which babies to band with money bands, I again doubt it would be a coin flip.

When a flyer is asked which pair of birds in his loft is the best to obtain babies from, he/she won't hesitate very long before saying something like, "this pair here are my best".

Sure, not all babies are great or best. But the odds are, from certain pairs I am going to get better young birds, and obversly, from certain pairs I am going to get duds. I know that from either past experience, from pedigee, from handling, or maybe even from the word of another flyer.

But I will grant that ANY pair COULD produce a barn burner, and "my best pair" could and probably will, produce youngsters that don't perform well at all. The possibility even exists that a young bird from two ferals could be a great racing bird. The odds are extremely low of that happening, but do exist.

You go with "your best" EDUCATED guess and hope for the best. What else can one do?

If I was buying a pair of young birds from you, I would ask you to pick them out for me. You know your birds better than I. You know your "best".

Having said all of that. I agree that your statement makes more sense than mine. Yours is actually undisputable.


----------



## kbraden

Trying to figure an average on race positions won't be accurate either... some birds listed in the previous races as "late" were actually not late. The clock went on the fritz when they came in; they were originally marked as "20" for power outage/ glitch. 
Mine would be a good example of that, in the 2nd race, my bird is now marked late, when indeed it was either 8, 9 or 10 position in the B race. There were 2 other birds in that B race grouping also, just can't remember who they were. Which after looking at the list also tells me that some birds marked as 8, 9, & 10 position in that weeks results were not in those positions, but later.


----------



## Josepe

kbraden,
You have a point,didn't think of that.There'll have to be some kind of system in place before long.


----------



## conditionfreak

Is it truly the "last bird standing", or is it point totals?

I could see a scenario whereupon a bird could accumulate enough points to win, but not come home from the last race.


----------



## kbraden

conditionfreak said:


> Last bird standing is the motto now.
> 
> But I assume that in this years PT Classic, a bird that accumulated enough points in the early races but gets lost in the last or second to last race, could still win the competition.
> 
> Is that correct? Or is it truly the "last bird standing with the most points earned"? (or is it the least points accumulated?)
> 
> In other words, if COV-33 gets 1, 4, 1, 1, 6, 3, 2, then does not come home from the last race, and its finish point totals amount to 18, would it beat out a bird that comes home from every race but has a finish total of 20? (think of it like golf scores whereupon the lower the total, the better)


Still, that will not work as some birds marked as late on races, where not in fact late. See my post above.


----------



## Josepe

There's going to be more then One Bird Standing after the last race I'd think.
Who knows how it'll be determined at this point.


----------



## Flapdoodle

hillfamilyloft said:


> Worked up a little spread sheet to see which birds are in the lead. I used place value. I did not count the birds held back. I used total places and divided by how many races the bird was in and found an average place. COV averaged 1.75 place 1105 2nd etc. Not fool proof but it shows the top birds. Racing four races instead of three should count for something.
> 
> Race #1	Race #2	Race # 3	Race #4	Total Pts	AV Place
> COV 33	33	rackerman	1	4	1	1	7	1.75
> AVC 1105	1105	happy	1	1	3	3	8	2
> LL 1006	1006	Josepe	2	2	4	5	13	3.25
> GFTG 105	105	Ace in the Hole	1	8	2	11	3.666666667
> AVC 1108	1108	happy	2	9	1	6	18	4.5
> COV 26	26	mtripOH	13	2	2	3	20	5
> GFTG 113	113	blong boy	2	6 8	16	5.333333333
> ARPU 21600	21600	pigeonnewb	12	1	3	7	23	5.75
> VITA KING 789	789	Thunderbird Racing	8	7	9	1	25	6.25
> VITA KING 785	785	Thunderbird Racing	4	2	15	7	28	7
> MTP 1441	1441	southtown racers	9	3	11	6	29	7.25
> MTP 1442	1442	southtown racers	5	7	15	4	31	7.75
> OCALA 1082	1082	West	5	6 15	26	8.666666667
> NEPLS 1802	1802	loonecho	10	8	7	12	37	9.25
> ARPU 2810	2810	kbraden	13	15	5	5	38	9.5
> SD 412	412	Kalapati	7	15 8	30	10
> TORR 357	357	Gnuretiree	15	15 2	32	10.66666667
> COV 32	32	rackerman	15	15	12	2	44	11
> ARPU 19252	19252	eyespyer	9	15 9	33	11
> KEYHOLE 424	424	jpsnapdy	9	15 10	34	11.33333333
> ZEPPELIN 6	6	bbcdon	5	15 15	35	11.66666667
> NEPLS 1827	1827	loonecho	15	7	15	15	52	13
> SPO 706	706	JHoll	15	15 11	41	13.66666667
> LNC 11314	11314	Crazy Pete	11	15 15	41	13.66666667
> TRC 11464	11464	Lucky Loft	11	15	15	15	56	14
> JEDDS 5010	5010	Beaverbandit	14	15 15	44	14.66666667
> LKY 1063	1063	Kastle Loft	15	15	15	15	60	15
> I 21582	21582	First To Hatch	15	15 15	45	15
> JEDDS 5006	5006	Beaverbandit	15	15	15	15	60	15


Randy thanks for putting this together. I think rather then vote on the best way to deicide our winner we should stick to the original plan. Our top bird was to be the bird that scores the most points in the combine. I wish we had more birds in the points. The only thing I think we should add is the bird has to be home from the last race (still around).

Here are the standings based on the first four races. I think it is pretty close to Randy’s results.

https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1zVwOFBqfs0dEih29t4Oialvk5TXG1KJDR0Pz5LpvXCQ

If you are overly concerned with anything other then the top spots feel free to talk about, post, calculate whatever makes sense. The original plan is pretty simple.


----------



## kbraden

I personally don't think it should go off combine points. We didn't enter a combine race per say, we entered a PT ONE loft race. Using combine points only allows those who scored in the combine to participate. It should be somehow averaged between the positions they flew in and position they came in the loft at. We have some good flyers in the loft, just because they didn't score actual AU points should not eliminate them from the whole end of season winners list.
(In case anyone is wondering, this doesn't effect my bird any, he's been flying backwards since this all started. "Fly Forrest, fly"! So he has no chance, just saying what I think is right.)

And HillFamilyLoft, my bird shows ARPU 2810 braden	13	15	5	5	38	9.5

Don't know where you got that number but it is wrong. Second race my bird came in either 8, 9, or 10 position.


----------



## Gnuretiree

How are we doing on late returns? How many birds do you think will be going this coming weekend?


----------



## Josepe

Forgot about the original plan of combine points.It was posted in the beginning.And it should be changed that the point leader Has to Finish the Last race(it's an 8 race series) and be in the loft.Some of the birds that haven't did that well or has been held back can still Come On in the last 3 races.Like the 424 bird that came from 10th to 4th palce and was on the 2nd drop with two that has done pretty well.Same with 21582(one I bred for Hatch) finally made the standings after being late and held back til the 5th race.Anything can happen in the last 3 races,including the point leaders being lost.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

kbraden said:


> I personally don't think it should go off combine points. We didn't enter a combine race per say, we entered a PT ONE loft race. Using combine points only allows those who scored in the combine to participate. It should be somehow averaged between the positions they flew in and position they came in the loft at. We have some good flyers in the loft, just because they didn't score actual AU points should not eliminate them from the whole end of season winners list.
> (In case anyone is wondering, this doesn't effect my bird any, he's been flying backwards since this all started. "Fly Forrest, fly"! So he has no chance, just saying what I think is right.)
> 
> And HillFamilyLoft, my bird shows ARPU 2810 braden	13	15	5	5	38	9.5
> 
> Don't know where you got that number but it is wrong. Second race my bird came in either 8, 9, or 10 position.


I just put everything that was late as a 15. Don't think it will make much of a diff in the long run. We are not using my system.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Flapdoodle said:


> Randy thanks for putting this together. I think rather then vote on the best way to deicide our winner we should stick to the original plan. Our top bird was to be the bird that scores the most points in the combine. I wish we had more birds in the points. The only thing I think we should add is the bird has to be home from the last race (still around).
> 
> Here are the standings based on the first four races. I think it is pretty close to Randy’s results.
> 
> https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1zVwOFBqfs0dEih29t4Oialvk5TXG1KJDR0Pz5LpvXCQ
> 
> If you are overly concerned with anything other then the top spots feel free to talk about, post, calculate whatever makes sense. The original plan is pretty simple.


Looks about spot on how they are doing in the combine and in the loft. Should not have too much grief deciding the winner. Do agree the bird must finish the season to be declared the winner.


----------



## kbraden

hillfamilyloft said:


> I just put everything that was late as a 15. Don't think it will make much of a diff in the long run. We are not using my system.


You missed my point. The bird was not late to begin with. But you are right, doesn't much matter for the "system". But it is the point of the matter that some race results are not accurate.


----------



## conditionfreak

Can someone copy and paste from the link Flapdoodle posted, as I can not access google socuments. I have a google account but it just doesn't work for me, ever. For some unknown reason. Thanks if you can.


----------



## kbraden

Here ya go Walt:


55. 33 AU 11 COV BB H 188.6 Pts 2 race(s) Pigeon Talk 
79. 1105 AU 11 AVC BBWF H 156.0 Pts 2 race(s) Pigeon Talk 
136. 106 AU 11 GFTG BB H 110.2 Pts 1 race(s) Pigeon Talk 
139. 1006 AU 11 LL RC H 108.3 Pts 1 race(s) Pigeon Talk 
156. 105 AU 11 GFTG BB H 97.3 Pts 1 race(s) Pigeon Talk 
171. 785 AU 11 VITA BCWF H 90.2 Pts 1 race(s) Pigeon Talk 
195. 703 AU 11 SPO BBSP H 76.4 Pts 1 race(s) Pigeon Talk 
219. 20 AU 11 CHRL BC H 64.6 Pts 1 race(s) Pigeon Talk 
249. 1441 AU 11 MTP GRIZ H 49.9 Pts 1 race(s) Pigeon Talk 
275. 113 AU 11 GFTG BLK H 37.6 Pts 1 race(s) Pigeon Talk 
316. 1510 AU 11 CHAS GRIZ H 16.2 Pts 1 race(s) Pigeon Talk 
325. 26 AU 11 COV BC H 9.8 Pts 1 race(s) Pigeon Talk


----------



## conditionfreak

Thanks much.


----------



## conditionfreak

I think that we should not change the original plan for deciding the winner, as I do not like changes from the original "rules".

However, I must say I do not like the original "rules" and should of spoke up sooner.

The reason I do not like the original "rules", is that this is a competition between you and I (in effect, "us") and not anyone else (the combine or club).

That is one reason that the next PT Classic will be a true "one race for all of the marbles" theme. It cuts out having to make any additions to the rules (as is happening now, re: winner must still be "around").

Not disparging this years event at all. The rules are the rules. We knew what they were going in. That is good enough for me. I do not like changing the rules in mid stream. But just imagine that it is possible that all of the "contending birds" could be lost in the next three weeks, and a bird that got injured or was held back for whatever reason, or has been missing for five weeks and is found in another flyers loft tomorrow, could be the title champion. That just doesn't seem fair. A bird that comes up missing but has 200 points, could lose the competition to a bird that is still "around" but only has 9 points. That would be a shame. That is possible.

I do agree with the new addition to the original rules that the bird still has to be "around", to win the competition and crown. What else could we do.

If that makes any sense at all.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

kbraden said:


> You missed my point. The bird was not late to begin with. But you are right, doesn't much matter for the "system". But it is the point of the matter that some race results are not accurate.


Did not miss your point nor do I need to defend an arbitrary scoring system that was only design to show the top birds at the time. Any birds that were late or 10th or 8th or even 5th were not up with the top 5 or so anyway. So did not make a diff whether I put NA, 15, 10 or even 5. Also I am not going to sit here and get grief in this post like Flap has for only trying to help. Bunch of Crud dealing with pigeon fliers that want their birds nails done. My birds are out of the race because they did not cut the mustard, not because of Flaps loft management, my scoring system, or sun spots. A bird late, back in the pack or held back because of a head molt ain't gonna win this thing. 
Now as for the current system, the only flaw I can see is if say a bird that was late every race comes through and gets a high points score in the combine. Would that bird be better than say Cov33, Mark's 105, Josepe's bird, Happy's bird etc. I won high points bird old birds with a bird that was lost the last race. Should I have won. NOT. Also if one of these birds hits the molt at the end and is held back. What are we going to do then? Hate to be Flap if that happens. Boo Hoo.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Flapdoodle said:


> “The Cream Will Rise To The Top”
> 
> I want to win champion loft, to do that we need to score as many points as we can. It is within my best interest to send the best birds. As the coach, I could deviate from the above if a player says send me this is my race. I reserve the right to make changes to the line up if I feel that is best. In addition, if I get a bird that has done well but in a bad molt position either molting flights or a bad head molt I will bench them for a race if I feel that is best.


This right here may decide the race. The question is would you want your bird that has five 1st place wins in the loft to be sent on the 300 with a bad molt position.


----------



## Crazy Pete

rackerman said:


> Crazy Pete, I thought you knew??? Conditionfreak bred them Cov birds!! They sure are some amazing birds....


There were 6 cov birds to start with, I thought you were in the same club or combine.
Dave


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Not sure whether I read that right or not, but did GFTG 108 trap in yesterday? Thats three weeks out, that beats Sure Bet's two weeks late record. What shape is he in?
Here is the funny thing about that bird. It is sibling to my fluke bird Saturday. If you did not read that post, Cliff who flies my birds took 31 to the club by mistake. He could only allocate 30. Well his first bird in was the unallocated bird. My first allocated bird was 19th 2 minutes out. The unallocated bird beat that bird home by 13 minutes. Funny how things work. If it is back and is a hen send it to Josepe if 1006 finishes the races. If it is a cock send it to Thunderbird racing. He is looking for a sprint bird. Saturdays race was 150 miles. His sibling was top 10% from 100. The sire is sibling to my 330 second high points in the club in 09. Mark's 105 is off another sibling to 330. Two other siblings were top 10% last weeks 100. This would be a good bird for Thunderbird.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

If 108 looks raceable fly him so he can win the 300 and then send him to one of those guys.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Could not sleep so I updated my "unofficial" race results. Calculated by average placing in races flown in the loft. 
R #1	R #2	R# 3	R #4	R #5 Pts	AV Place
33	rackerman 1	4	1	1	6	13	2.6
1006	Josepe 2	2	4	5	3	16	3.2
105	Ace in the Hole	1	8 2	2	13	3.3
1105	happy 1	1	3	3	11	19	3.8
26	mtripOH 13	2	2	3	1	21	4.2
1108	happy 2	9	1	6	5	23	4.6
113	blong boy 2	6 8 16	5.3
21600	pigeonnewb	12	1	3	7 23	5.8
1442	southtown racers	5	7	15	4	1	32	6.4
789	Thunderbird Racing8	7	9	1	8	33	6.6
1441	southtown racers	9	3	11	6	5	34	6.8
2810	kbraden 13	8	5	5	3	34	6.8
785	Thunderbird Racing4	2	15	7	9	37	7.4
1082	West 5	6 15 26	8.7
32	rackerman 15	15	12	2	2	46	9.2
1802	loonecho 10	8	7	12 37	9.3
424	jpsnapdy 9	15 10	4	38	9.5
412	Kalapati 7	15 8 30	10.0
357	Gnuretiree 15	15 2 32	10.7
19252	eyespyer 9	15 9 33	11.0
1827	loonecho 15	7	15	15	4	56	11.2
6	bbcdon 5	15 15 35	11.7
21582	First To Hatch15	15 15	6	51	12.8
5010	Beaverbandit	14	15 15	8	52	13.0
5006	Beaverbandit	15	15	15	15	7	67	13.4
706	JHoll 15	15 11 41	13.7
11314	Crazy Pete	11	15 15 41	13.7
11464	Lucky Loft	11	15	15	15 56	14.0
1063	Kastle Loft 15	15	15	15 60	15.0


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Its like cream, no matter how you churn the butter you get the same thing. Like to see average speed done on the birds. That might be the truest results yet. That would actually be the fastest to cover the distance. Problem is once they sit out they would not be eligible.


----------



## Thunderbird Racing

average speed is the best way to score the birds in my opinion.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

conditionfreak said:


> With the three longest races to go, it looks like the champion/s will be those that flew in all of the races, and survived.
> 
> IMO, many very good birds have been lost. Just because a bird doesn't come home, does not mean it was not a very good racing pigeon. Bad things can and do happen to good racing pigeons.
> 
> I wonder if most here:
> 
> A) sent their best?
> B) sent what happened to be ready at the right time?
> C) sent something they were unsure of and wanted to test?
> D) had many good options and had to make a decision by flipping a coin?
> 
> I will state that my personal entries were planned out since last years PT Classic. There was never a doubt what I was going to send. Just didn't work out well for me. IMO, I did not send my best. None of the COV birds originally entered in this competition are what I would consider my best, (but I might have to rethink that)  My best, IMO, were banded with money bands to be flown here at home. I actually sent better birds for others, than I did for myself, obviously.  I just wanted to try a pairing of two birds that had already flown and survived Flapdoodles course. Seemed to be a good plan at the time. Didn't work out though.
> 
> Next time!


One baby I sent was a sibling of last year's bird. The other wasn't planned but was the only other pair ready on time. But I decided to send it rather than just two from the same pair, that way I could test them out.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Well, I guess my bird never made it back from that lady's house.


----------



## jpsnapdy

*flap's rules*



hillfamilyloft said:


> Could not sleep so I updated my "unofficial" race results. Calculated by average placing in races flown in the loft.
> R #1	R #2	R# 3	R #4	R #5 Pts	AV Place
> 33	rackerman 1	4	1	1	6	13	2.6
> 1006	Josepe 2	2	4	5	3	16	3.2
> 105	Ace in the Hole	1	8 2	2	13	3.3
> 1105	happy 1	1	3	3	11	19	3.8
> 26	mtripOH 13	2	2	3	1	21	4.2
> 1108	happy 2	9	1	6	5	23	4.6
> 113	blong boy 2	6 8 16	5.3
> 21600	pigeonnewb	12	1	3	7 23	5.8
> 1442	southtown racers	5	7	15	4	1	32	6.4
> 789	Thunderbird Racing8	7	9	1	8	33	6.6
> 1441	southtown racers	9	3	11	6	5	34	6.8
> 2810	kbraden 13	8	5	5	3	34	6.8
> 785	Thunderbird Racing4	2	15	7	9	37	7.4
> 1082	West 5	6 15 26	8.7
> 32	rackerman 15	15	12	2	2	46	9.2
> 1802	loonecho 10	8	7	12 37	9.3
> 424	jpsnapdy 9	15 10	4	38	9.5
> 412	Kalapati 7	15 8 30	10.0
> 357	Gnuretiree 15	15 2 32	10.7
> 19252	eyespyer 9	15 9 33	11.0
> 1827	loonecho 15	7	15	15	4	56	11.2
> 6	bbcdon 5	15 15 35	11.7
> ...


Hi Hill,
In the 5th race, according to trapping time put up by flap, 105, 1006 and 424 could possibly be equal 2nd... ?, then there is the clock not working, so why 15?, no difference between 99 and 999? etc...
I made my own results spreadsheet too, they don't tally with yours, so I dropped it.

PS. Sorry, had not read your previous post

Anyway, we accepted flapdoodle's rules when we joined, so I say we stick to the initial rules whether we like them or not. 
But Tom, I don't think a bird that's missing after the last race should not get it because it's not there on that day, could turn up later too... Or even if we know for sure that it's dead, if it has deserved first place it should get it or its owner should is what I think...


----------



## hillfamilyloft

I had it changed to 8th on my other spread sheet which moved it up to about 6.5 average moved it up about five spots. Don't know what happened to that one. I was not meaning to offend anyone by putting 15 as a place. It just did not matter for say the top 5 birds. Take this as a snapshot half way through the season. Like a race announcer when the horses are on the back stretch. Don't take it as the final results.


----------



## Flapdoodle

MaryOfExeter said:


> Well, I guess my bird never made it back from that lady's house.


Sorry Becky, I tried a PM and it came back saying your box was full. The bird did not make it back sorry.


----------



## Flapdoodle

Thunderbird Racing said:


> average speed is the best way to score the birds in my opinion.


Average speed would be tough. The problem is we only have 6 birds that have not been MIA or held back at least a week. Out of those six some went to the A race some the B. In a few of the races the times were very different. Imlay for example the 32 bird in the A race was 1523 ypm in the B race the 32 bird was 1275 ypm. The weather or wind patterns change and the swing can be huge.


----------



## Flapdoodle

hillfamilyloft said:


> If 108 looks raceable fly him so he can win the 300 and then send him to one of those guys.


Seems raceable, not skinny and handled great. She is a little hen. On the training toss today she was in the first group home. The problem is I don't know how much time she has had on the wing the past few weeks.


----------



## Flapdoodle

CHRL 20 trapped in 9/27. Been out a little over a week. She seems to be a hen... very skinny. She will sit out this week and maybe race the following week. 

We go out to 300 this Saturday, the following week drop down 25 miles, then out to 320 for the last race.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Flapdoodle said:


> Seems raceable, not skinny and handled great. She is a little hen. On the training toss today she was in the first group home. The problem is I don't know how much time she has had on the wing the past few weeks.


She has probably been at another loft. Use your judgement. Give her a look see on Friday.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

jpsnapdy said:


> Hi Hill,
> In the 5th race, according to trapping time put up by flap, 105, 1006 and 424 could possibly be equal 2nd... ?, then there is the clock not working, so why 15?, no difference between 99 and 999? etc...
> I made my own results spreadsheet too, they don't tally with yours, so I dropped it.
> 
> PS. Sorry, had not read your previous post
> 
> Anyway, we accepted flapdoodle's rules when we joined, so I say we stick to the initial rules whether we like them or not.
> But Tom, I don't think a bird that's missing after the last race should not get it because it's not there on that day, could turn up later too... Or even if we know for sure that it's dead, if it has deserved first place it should get it or its owner should is what I think...


I pooped canned the spreadsheet. Causing too much grief. The winners will show in the end.


----------



## Josepe

Just talked to 1006 on his wireless pigeon phone.He was having a Peanut Milk Shake.Said this 300 coming up Sat. is the reason he took that long plane ride in that stuffy shipping box to training camp.Said when that crate door drops Sat morning he's not there to Whistle Dixie.


----------



## kbraden

hillfamilyloft said:


> I had it changed to 8th on my other spread sheet which moved it up to about 6.5 average moved it up about five spots. Don't know what happened to that one. I was not meaning to offend anyone by putting 15 as a place. It just did not matter for say the top 5 birds. Take this as a snapshot half way through the season. Like a race announcer when the horses are on the back stretch. Don't take it as the final results.


Were you referring to me? If so, thank you. Like I have said before, I know my bird has no chance at winning, but I am interested in how he places overall in the loft at end of season, with other members birds. I don't care that he isn't getting AU points, but heck, he is still in the loft and hasn't missed a race yet. Although I have been writing down his results, I was not writing down everyone else's, figured I would use the inventory sheet to do that, but it makes it hard when some numbers aren't accurate or get changed around. Wish now I had kept copies of all the inventory lists from the beginning.
So, we're all good


----------



## kbraden

Josepe said:


> Just talked to 1006 on his wireless pigeon phone.He was having a Peanut Milk Shake.Said this 300 coming up Sat. is the reason he took that long plane ride in that stuffy shipping box to training camp.Said when that crate door drops Sat morning he's not there to Whistle Dixie.


Yeh, but he'll be whistling for a cab instead since mine will be tripping him on the way out the door. Ooops, on second thought, better trip a COV bird instead, I need to follow 1006 home


----------



## Kastle Loft

Hey flap, will LKY 1063 ever race again? I think she may be smarter than she is fast. "hmmm, if I come in slow a couple of times, then have a dramatic head molt, maybe that guy will quit driving me so far away!"

But seriously, what's your take on her?


----------



## First To Hatch

Josepe bred me my two. The grizzle that I losts nest mate is with me she has gotten a diploma. The BB nest mate was here too, if she would of trapped in, in the first race she would of been 12th and gotten a diploma as well, she then hurt her leg and wasn't putting weight on it and after two weeks off and the leg was perfect, she never came back from a 200.


----------



## Crazy Pete

Josepe said:


> Just talked to 1006 on his wireless pigeon phone.He was having a Peanut Milk Shake.Said this 300 coming up Sat. is the reason he took that long plane ride in that stuffy shipping box to training camp.Said when that crate door drops Sat morning he's not there to Whistle Dixie.


My birds are flying around some place singing the blues. lol
Dave


----------



## hillfamilyloft

kbraden said:


> Were you referring to me? If so, thank you. Like I have said before, I know my bird has no chance at winning, but I am interested in how he places overall in the loft at end of season, with other members birds. I don't care that he isn't getting AU points, but heck, he is still in the loft and hasn't missed a race yet. Although I have been writing down his results, I was not writing down everyone else's, figured I would use the inventory sheet to do that, but it makes it hard when some numbers aren't accurate or get changed around. Wish now I had kept copies of all the inventory lists from the beginning.
> So, we're all good


I would look at the bird if it finishes as a tough bird. This course is very very tough. I would look to cross it in with something faster. Sometimes I think my speed is not tough enough. Sometimes those crosses work well. There is something to be said for longevity. Sometimes the longer distance birds do not start showing until the 300 when all the speed birds poop out. I look to see some different birds at the top this week.


----------



## Thunderbird Racing

hillfamilyloft said:


> I look to see some different birds at the top this week.


I'm hoping so....go T-BIRDS!!


----------



## jpsnapdy

hillfamilyloft said:


> I pooped canned the spreadsheet. Causing too much grief. The winners will show in the end.


Yeah, I guess so, too!


----------



## kbraden

Bad news folks, the weather man announced last night that we are getting strong winds on Saturday & Sunday, highs of 80. It will be a head wind for the birds. Hopefully the wind doesn't pick up til later in the afternoon when the birds should be close to home. Will keep you all posted closer to weekend on the weather.


----------



## Josepe

Not Good.


----------



## conditionfreak

Perfect. COV-26 should win again.











Ha Ha Ha Ha


----------



## rackerman

*That should help Cov32, Cov33 & Cov26*


kbraden said:


> Bad news folks, the weather man announced last night that we are getting strong winds on Saturday & Sunday, highs of 80. It will be a head wind for the birds. Hopefully the wind doesn't pick up til later in the afternoon when the birds should be close to home. Will keep you all posted closer to weekend on the weather.


----------



## Josepe

Time and Toughness will tell.Talked to 1006 today,He's doing Head Wind Sprints in preperation just in case.


----------



## kbraden

Not if I stand on the interstate rattling a can of fresh peanuts for them  



rackerman said:


> *That should help Cov32, Cov33 & Cov26*


----------



## rackerman

*They don't eat peanuts Only I have the secret treats*


kbraden said:


> Not if I stand on the interstate rattling a can of fresh peanuts for them


----------



## kbraden

Better idea, maybe I'll just kidnap my bird and drive him back to Tom's real quick and release him in the driveway 



rackerman said:


> *They don't eat peanuts Only I have the secret treats*


----------



## Flapdoodle

If you have a 20 mintues or so to kill.


http://youtu.be/_dDZiOL-BWg

http://youtu.be/vtkBj62edhw

Unedited and kind of long. I say in the video a bunch of times "this bird is molted out" what I really should of said is "this bird is through the worst of the head molt".

My plan is to send all the birds this week unless it is missing two or more flights. I will hold the birds that have trapped in last since Monday. Including 19252 who trapped in this morning. 

I might sit on a few of the birds again that are still pretty naked around the neck/head. 

If anyone wants me to give his or her bird a break this week, shoot me a PM. No need to write if you want them sent.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Thanks for the vid. GFTG 108 looks like it has been shacked up somewhere. Looks good and healthy. I would see what it does on the training flights. Send it if it looks and feels ready. She looks like she wants to win the 300.


----------



## Josepe

Thanks for posting.


----------



## Flapdoodle

hillfamilyloft said:


> Are you going to work a system next year? Should be a bit easier raising your own young birds. Also where are you thinking of going for birds now that you are starting over?


Randy I thought I would respond here rather then hijack the other thread. 

Next year is still up in the air for me. As everyone can see from the video we are up against it. Some of the better birds about to drop ninth flight. I don't think I will be able to fly YB again if I don't work a system. It is too depressing and not fair to the birds. The course is tough enough without the birds having the additional stress of dealing with molt. 

My first pair of birds was from a guy in my club. They were a mother/son pair out of the white bandit. I have got out of pigeons twice since then but I am still a sucker for grizzles. That is most likely the direction I am going next year. 

Same guy has two pair of birds he is giving me. Key word giving. He must know what they are worth and wised up. I am a slow learner, as grizzle birds can't race. They are all four 2003 Hapyco bands one is a direct son of pit bull the other out of white tornado. Anyway, those two pair and I have got a another guy that has some of the same line a couple of times removed from Hapyco (translation: cheaper). The plan is six pair.

Another six pair of older breeders I plan to pick up from another local guy that does not race anymore but keeps pigeons. That makes me a little nervous but they are all from the same line for several generations. They are all BB. 

The plan the first year is to split them grizzle/bb all twelve pairs. Have a pretty race team that is slow and does not race well. The bottom line is this is for fun and it is something I have wanted to for a while. 

That is the plan today, tomorrow it will be buy all the YB kits you auction off and go that route.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Flapdoodle said:


> Randy I thought I would respond here rather then high jack the other thread.
> 
> Next year is still up in the air for me. As everyone can see from the video we are up against it. Some of the better birds about to drop ninth flight. I don't think I will be able to fly YB again if I don't work a system. It is too depressing and not fair to the birds. The course is tough enough without the birds having the additional stress of dealing with molt.
> 
> My first pair of birds was from a guy in my club. They were a mother/son pair out of the white bandit. I have got out of pigeons twice since then but I am still a sucker for grizzles. That is most likely the direction I am going next year.
> 
> Same guy has two pair of birds he is giving me. Key word giving. He must know what they are worth and wised up. I am a slow learner, as grizzle birds can't race. They are all four 2003 Hapyco bands one is a direct son of pit bull the other out of white tornado. Anyway, those two pair and I have got a another guy that has some of the same line a couple of times removed from Hapyco (translation: cheaper). The plan is six pair.
> 
> Another six pair of older breeders I plan to pick up from another local guy that does not race anymore but keeps pigeons. That makes me a little nervous but they are all from the same line for several generations. They are all BB.
> 
> The plan the first year is to split them grizzle/bb all twelve pairs. Have a pretty race team that is slow and does not race well. The bottom line is this is for fun and it is something I have wanted to for a while.
> 
> That is the plan today, tomorrow it will be buy all the YB kits you auction off and go that route.


I am going to start my breast cancer auction next week or so. I was thinking of doing a splash foursome. So look for it. All off some great stuff, just splash birds. They are already half grizzle. I am also putting up a foursome off my best also. I can also add a six pack of young birds for you next year for a donation to the walk. Let me know if you want one. If you do not want to donate I will probably send you one anyway for all you have done for the PT race. Would like to see what the birds can do for you breeding and racing.


----------



## Matt M

kbraden said:


> Bad news folks, the weather man announced last night that we are getting strong winds on Saturday & Sunday, highs of 80. It will be a head wind for the birds. Hopefully the wind doesn't pick up til later in the afternoon when the birds should be close to home. Will keep you all posted closer to weekend on the weather.


kbraden -- is there a good internet source to find out the wind forecast/direction for the area?


----------



## kbraden

Matt M said:


> kbraden -- is there a good internet source to find out the wind forecast/direction for the area?


Local News Channel(click video player to your right of screen for the weather we see on tv):
http://www.ktvn.com/weather

General Weather(this one will show hour by hour)
http://www.weather.com/

Use zipcodes: 
89501 Reno
89406 Fallon
89419 Lovelock
89446 Winnemucca
89821 Carlin
89801 Elko

Wind blows west to east, 95% of the time.


----------



## rackerman

*Tom,thanks for the videos'. *


Flapdoodle said:


> If you have a 20 mintues or so to kill.
> 
> 
> http://youtu.be/_dDZiOL-BWg
> 
> http://youtu.be/vtkBj62edhw
> 
> Unedited and kind of long. I say in the video a bunch of times "this bird is molted out" what I really should of said is "this bird is through the worst of the head molt".
> 
> My plan is to send all the birds this week unless it is missing two or more flights. I will hold the birds that have trapped in last since Monday. Including 19252 who trapped in this morning.
> 
> I might sit on a few of the birds again that are still pretty naked around the neck/head.
> 
> If anyone wants me to give his or her bird a break this week, shoot me a PM. No need to write if you want them sent.


----------



## kalapati

Flapdoodle said:


> Randy I thought I would respond here rather then hijack the other thread.
> 
> Next year is still up in the air for me. As everyone can see from the video we are up against it. Some of the better birds about to drop ninth flight. I don't think I will be able to fly YB again if I don't work a system. It is too depressing and not fair to the birds. The course is tough enough without the birds having the additional stress of dealing with molt.


all my YBs are moulting real bad too and looks like i may not be able to race them when our YB races start next week.

hey tom, are you planning on racing OB next year? just wonderin' for if SD412 survives these YB races i wish we can test her for next year's OB races. you may want to breed from her if you're interested too.



kalapati
San Diego

http://blubarloft.dyndns.biz:81/jview.htm


----------



## Crazy Pete

all my YBs are moulting real bad too and looks like i may not be able to race them when our YB races start next week.

Might be too late for the first race but if you give them 18 % protein it should help them with the molt.
Dave


----------



## kbraden

Thanks for the video Tom, that was cool being able to see the birds. Esp mine, it was the first time I had a very light colored red check (the rest have been very dark red from that pair), so was wondering how he looked. Good luck to everyone this weekend, hope the weather stays calm til they are all home.


----------



## JHoll

Matt M, I know the question was directed to KBraden but thought you would like to check out this very reliable up to the hour forecast for flying, I know you'll favorite it as soon as you can! JHoll 

http://www.wunderground.com/


----------



## Flapdoodle

kalapati said:


> all my YBs are moulting real bad too and looks like i may not be able to race them when our YB races start next week.
> 
> hey tom, are you planning on racing OB next year? just wonderin' for if SD412 survives these YB races i wish we can test her for next year's OB races. you may want to breed from her if you're interested too.
> http://blubarloft.dyndns.biz:81/jview.htm


I don't think old birds are in the cards for me next year. I have wised up and I am not committing to anything . I would be interested in keeping the bird if she is around in three weeks. She is currently paired up with one of the MTP birds, no nest or eggs, they are just overly friendly. I plan on keeping both of those as well (thanks Matt). If you need her back that is all good.



hillfamilyloft said:


> I am going to start my breast cancer auction next week or so. I was thinking of doing a splash foursome. So look for it. All off some great stuff, just splash birds. They are already half grizzle. I am also putting up a foursome off my best also. I can also add a six pack of young birds for you next year for a donation to the walk. Let me know if you want one. If you do not want to donate I will probably send you one anyway for all you have done for the PT race. Would like to see what the birds can do for you breeding and racing.


I will keep a lookout for the auction. I would be more interested in an early bred YB kit. 



kbraden said:


> Local News Channel(click video player to your right of screen for the weather we see on tv):
> http://www.ktvn.com/weather
> 
> General Weather(this one will show hour by hour)
> http://www.weather.com/
> 
> Use zipcodes:
> 89501 Reno
> 89406 Fallon
> 89419 Lovelock
> 89446 Winnemucca
> 89821 Carlin
> 89801 Elko
> 
> Wind blows west to east, 95% of the time.


kbraden thanks for being quick to post weather, answer questions about upcoming race milage, and other stuff. It keeps some continuity in the thread that would not be there if it was left to me.


----------



## conditionfreak

So there are only 23 birds left in the competition, including the sick, lame or lazy? 

How many did we start the competition with? I forget. I just want to know what to expect next year, in the way of losses.

Of course I am in a totally different area of the country.


----------



## kbraden

Flapdoodle said:


> kbraden thanks for being quick to post weather, answer questions about upcoming race milage, and other stuff. It keeps some continuity in the thread that would not be there if it was left to me.


No prob, figured this is all going on in my back yard, so to speak. I should know the weather, I am sitting smack dab in middle of it  Got I80 to the north, Reno to the west, and can see when storms are brewing to the south. Pretty flat land, so can get a good view in all directions.


----------



## Flapdoodle

conditionfreak said:


> So there are only 23 birds left in the competition, including the sick, lame or lazy?
> 
> How many did we start the competition with? I forget. I just want to know what to expect next year, in the way of losses.
> 
> Of course I am in a totally different area of the country.


We have 26 in the loft. The original spreadsheet is posted on *THE LIST* as sheet 3. 

88 pigeons were sent in. Sitting currently at 70% losses and climbing. The longest races are still to come. If you take out those that were died due to sickness that would be around 60% losses. 50% losses on this course is normal.

Some are out 100%, I think you are 50% (3 out 6). A few still have %100 hanging in there.

I am not ready for a post series recap yet but I will get there. By the end chances are good our loss percentage will climb some more. I will definitely include some suggestions for next year.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Just a quick suggestion. I think the A race should be reserved from here on out for the birds that are still in the hunt. I think the top 10 or so should be raced against each other. This would show the real champion in the end. Just a suggestion.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

I think Cov 33 and 105 should get a spot in the A race over my 108 bird that was missing 3 weeks. Just my thought.


----------



## Josepe

Sounds like a good suggestion to me. And a better way to test the top 10 against each other.


----------



## Flapdoodle

Hey guys I just thought of something. I think we should fill up the A race with all the best birds from here on out. Ship what ever is left (including my strays in the B race). I hope no one is offended by being in the B race. I am sure by the last race we might not fill the A race. If a bird goes gang busters in the B race and beats the strays I will bump a slower A race bird if needs be. 

Best idea I have ever had


----------



## Thunderbird Racing

Flapdoodle said:


> Hey guys I just thought of something. I think we should fill up the A race with all the best birds from here on out. Ship what ever is left (including my strays in the B race). I hope no one is offended by being in the B race. I am sure by the last race we might not fill the A race. If a bird goes gang busters in the B race and beats the strays I will bump a slower A race bird if needs be.
> 
> Best idea I have ever had


I thought that was what you were doing all along...Sounds good to me!!


----------



## conditionfreak

I thought that was an abvious thing to do?

What exactly is a "stray"? Did the owner state they did not want it back?


----------



## rackerman

*that's a great idea Hillfamily loft*


hillfamilyloft said:


> Just a quick suggestion. I think the A race should be reserved from here on out for the birds that are still in the hunt. I think the top 10 or so should be raced against each other. This would show the real champion in the end. Just a suggestion.


----------



## rackerman

*Gotta go work the night shift. I want to wish everyone good luck tomorrow!!

I predict one of the Cov birds will be take a 1st place tomorrow. 

GO COV BIRDS*


----------



## Flapdoodle

conditionfreak said:


> I thought that was an abvious thing to do?
> 
> What exactly is a "stray"? Did the owner state they did not want it back?


stray: a bird that unintentionally found its way home with our birds. 

There are five currently in the loft. Three that are allocated and I can race, two that are not. The three I allocated trapped in before the races started. One is from a guy south of San Francisco. He told me to just fly the bird. One from a guy in combine. I tossed it twice away from the loft and it kept coming back "home". He said to just fly it. The third is a guy in the club. He told me to just fly it. 

Of the other two birds one is from a club who a forum member belongs. They can't recall who had the band series to track down the owner. The last one showed up this week. ARPU band, called the guy that lives out buy Vacaville. 

Normally I would invite strays to leave but seeing as we have melting pot anyway I figured what the heck.


----------



## ace in the hole

rackerman said:


> *Gotta go work the night shift. I want to wish everyone good luck tomorrow!!
> 
> I predict one of the Cov birds will be take a 1st place tomorrow.
> 
> GO COV BIRDS*


*No, I think it's time for one of the other birds to stomp those COV birds.*


----------



## Josepe

This one could do it.They looked tired in the video.


----------



## conditionfreak

They should be. Butt kickin is hard on the body.

Those that have been coasting up to now, should have more reserves in them and should do better. One would think anyway!






Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha


----------



## hillfamilyloft

After 108 wins the B race she can move up to the A race. Did not think it fair she bumped good birds that should be flying together. The best birds should be flying against each other. Good idea Flap. You are a genius.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

The post is getting thick. This is fun stuff.


----------



## kbraden

Tom, do you have the full club race report from last week? The one that shows all the positions of the birds, not just the top 50?


----------



## Josepe

Yea 1006 has been coasting a lttle til now, waiting on this Yard Stick 300,it's the reason he took that long plane ride to CA.He moved up 2 positions last race from the one before,he's Honing In.If anyone sees any of the COV birds thumbing back to Tom's on the Interstate give them a ride.


----------



## kbraden

Josepe said:


> Yea 1006 has been coasting a lttle til now, waiting on this Yard Stick 300,it's the reason he took that long plane ride to CA.He moved up 2 positions last race from the one before,he's Honing In.*If anyone sees any of the COV birds thumbing back to Tom's on the Interstate give them a ride.*


I'll give them a ride... in the opposite direction!


----------



## ace in the hole

Tom,

By the looks of the birds I would say a good move for next year without a lot of extra work would be to raise your birds a little earlyer. Clip and pull the 9th and 10th flights. Put the lights on in the loft mid July till the end of racing season. Give them the extra light in the morning and let them go to natural night fall. To keep the light at the longest day of the year just make a small adjustment to your light timer once a week.


----------



## kbraden

Crappy weather 

http://www.ktvn.com/category/170899/video-landing-page?clipId=&topVideoCatNo=90460&topVideoCatNoB=170902&topVideoCatNoC=108651&topVideoCatNoD=170903&topVideoCatNoE=170904&autoStart=true&topVideoCatNo=default&clipId=6307503


----------



## rpalmer

ace in the hole said:


> Tom,
> 
> By the looks of the birds I would say a good move for next year without a lot of extra work would be to raise your birds a little earlyer. Clip and pull the 9th and 10th flights. Put the lights on in the loft mid July till the end of racing season. Give them the extra light in the morning and let them go to natural night fall. To keep the light at the longest day of the year just make a small adjustment to your light timer once a week.


The book "I Kept Them Flying" explains how this was done 100+ years ago. It's a good read.


----------



## Big T

conditionfreak said:


> They should be. Butt kickin is hard on the body.
> 
> Those that have been coasting up to now, should have more reserves in them and should do better. One would think anyway!
> 
> Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha


It is really hard to butt kick when you keep your butt on your shoulders. 

LOL Tony


----------



## ace in the hole

Come on birds it's time to kick some COV butt.


Good luck to all, even those COVs


----------



## conditionfreak

Big T said:


> It is really hard to butt kick when you keep your butt on your shoulders.
> 
> LOL Tony


I am very limber. My kicks can reach your shoulders.


----------



## mtripOH

Well here we go! I am on pins and needles here. Hoping to see all COV birds at the top of the list but more importantly hoping to see ALL birds make it back home. If the weather there is anything like we are having here they are in for a tough race. Tom, did you toss in those "magical" seeds to the COV birds?


----------



## Josepe

Good Luck to All.


----------



## rpalmer

mtripOH said:


> Well here we go! I am on pins and needles here. Hoping to see all COV birds at the top of the list but more importantly hoping to see ALL birds make it back home. If the weather there is anything like we are having here they are in for a tough race. Tom, did you toss in those "magical" seeds to the COV birds?


I have followed this race somewhat as a non participant. And it is only my opinion that one of the "better" birds belongs to mtripOH. It is the most consistent. And doing so with 1st doesn't hurt.

I can only watch and read. Best of "luck" to all in every way.


----------



## rackerman

GOOD LUCK to everyone!! I sure hope all the birds make it back safe and sound!!! I am predicting that one of the Cov birds will take 1st today. 

I hope I can see the results before I have to go to work the night shift. I may have to check on my lunch hour

Go Cov birds!!


----------



## rackerman

*Cov32 says he was sixth place last race, because he was saving reserves for the last two races & wants at least one more 1st place and hopefully a 2nd in the last race So watch out*


Josepe said:


> This one could do it.They looked tired in the video.


----------



## SouthTown Racers

GOOD LUCK TO ALL!!!!! Go MTP


----------



## hillfamilyloft

I was smart, I had Flap stick 108 in the B race so it would not have to race the good birds and get showered with all the poop talk.


----------



## rackerman

*Good luck in the B race. I think you are going to get a 1st place today*


hillfamilyloft said:


> I was smart, I had Flap stick 108 in the B race so it would not have to race the good birds and get showered with all the poop talk.


----------



## bbcdon

Hello Tom. Whenever you get a chance, I would appreciate it if you can update the list to know if Zeppelin 6 was held back, or is racing. Thanks, Don.


----------



## rackerman

*I Know What I Predicted, But As Long As My Birds Make It Back, I Will Be Happy! They Have Already Proved Themselfs To Me:d

Good Luck To All And May All Your Birds Make It Back Safely!

OFF TO WORK I GO.

GO COV BIRDS. LET KCK SOME BUTT*


----------



## hillfamilyloft

rackerman said:


> *Good luck in the B race. I think you are going to get a 1st place today*


One good thing she has going for her is that there are only four or five birds in the race. Who knows I think she has a bf somewhere. She does not stay home much. That said she might stay out another three weeks after this race. Not that confident that she wants to bullet home.


----------



## ace in the hole

hillfamilyloft said:


> One good thing she has going for her is that there are only four or five birds in the race. Who knows I think she has a bf somewhere. She does not stay home much. That said she might stay out another three weeks after this race. Not that confident that she wants to bullet home.


Where ever she was it looked like she was well taken care of. They may have taken her on a toss with their birds or just let her build herself back up until she was ready to head home.

I hope she comes back to Tom's and not back to the other loft. 

I had one like that. In training it went to another club members loft. Every time one of us would toss her with our other birds she would go to the other loft.


----------



## kbraden

So far the wind is not real bad, began blowing around noon today, but only up to approx. 15-20mph from SW. Got blowing dust up on I80 tho, pretty dark & murky, cutting visibility a bit. Hopefully all birds will be at least to Reno by now, and others close to Tom's. Figured anytime in the next hour they should begin trickling in.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Who is going to be first? 1000-1200 ypm could win this one.


----------



## mtripOH

This is just amazing. I am so thankful that I listened to Josiah some 2 years ago when he became very interested in pigeons out of nowhere. His research and interest has become a passion for me. I am on the edge of my seat just waiting for an update. The thought of these beautiful birds flying 300 miles is just about overwhelming to me.


----------



## Thunderbird Racing

hillfamilyloft said:


> Who is going to be first? 1000-1200 ypm could win this one.


Well....A T-Bird of course.!! all the rest of the birds will have to walk home, after the T-birds blow the feathers off the competition....


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Can anyone say daybird?


----------



## ace in the hole

I think 105 just trapped in and 1006 should be right behind her. I think, I think, there for it must be true. RIGHT?


----------



## mtripOH

The suspense is killing me....I keep on looking toward the western sky willing them all home! I am sure the COV's are leading the way


----------



## hillfamilyloft

We are right at about 1000 ypm or less. It was a tough race it was.


----------



## First To Hatch

hillfamilyloft said:


> We are right at about 1000 ypm or less. It was a tough race it was.


We had a 1800 YPM 300 mile race yesterday! I didn't fly that one though.


----------



## Flapdoodle

Personal issues. No birds at 3:45 my time. I will post when I can. Don't wait up.


----------



## First To Hatch

I hope everything is okay!


----------



## mtripOH

Flapdoodle said:


> Personal issues. No birds at 3:45 my time. I will post when I can. Don't wait up.


Tom, is everything ok? Is it the baby? I saw on another thread the she is breech. I do hope everything is alright.


----------



## mtripOH

I will go back to the dishes


----------



## Flapdoodle

Thanks for participating in this years race Our winner and last bird standing is..... 

We are in trouble... out of 19 sent, we have 2 back. 

#1 AVC 1108
#2 Keyhole 424

I spoke to one other flyer at 4:00 and he did not have any birds yet. 

Hope we get them tomorrow.


----------



## kbraden

Wind did pick up this afternoon around 2-3pm, but nothing over 30 mph from the sw prior to that time. It was clear skies all day, other than the dust cloud caused by the wind, but birds should have been past it by then. Hope we get then all back in morning.


----------



## Flapdoodle

mtripOH said:


> Tom, is everything ok? Is it the baby? I saw on another thread the she is breech. I do hope everything is alright.


Last night my wife was noticing considerably less fetal movement. After four soccer games this morning we decided to go to the birthing center. It was a long ordeal... bottom line is Mom and Baby both seem fine. Contractions about 6-7 minutes apart. Probably just to much time on her feet today. 3 weeks to go...


----------



## mtripOH

Flapdoodle said:


> We are in trouble... out of 19 sent, we have 2 back.


Ouch. Sad news, indeed. Hoping for a good return tomorrow. Sending all the good vibes I can muster.


----------



## mtripOH

Flapdoodle said:


> Last night my wife was noticing considerably less fetal movement. After four soccer games this morning we decided to go to the birthing center. It was a long ordeal... bottom line is Mom and Baby both seem fine. Contractions about 6-7 minutes apart. Probably just to much time on her feet today. 3 weeks to go...


WOW! Have the contractions stopped? Sounds like it can be any time now. 4 soccer games in one morning...YIKES! You guys sure have your hands full. Will be keeping you and your wife and baby in my thoughts and prayers.


----------



## conditionfreak

Glad mom and the baby are okay.

"Happy", your bird looks good for this competition now. But tomorrow is another day. Let's keep our fingers crossed that all of the bids find their way home. Late is great in my book. Certainly better than never.


----------



## mtripOH

Flapdoodle said:


> #1 AVC 1108
> #2 Keyhole 424


Congrats to both that made it back. Strong birds they are. Will be holding my breath for the 3 COV's to show up in the morning.


----------



## Josepe

Congrats to the first two back.And hopefully there's Alot more back and better news tommorrow.Bummer.


----------



## kbraden

Just found this on our local news site. Bunch of fires started late friday evening by lightning, so the birds have had to fly thru this. http://www.ktvn.com/story/15595936/firefighters-battle-multiple-fires-in-humboldt-county


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Focus on the family. See what shows tomorrow.


----------



## jpsnapdy

Flapdoodle said:


> Thanks for participating in this years race Our winner and last bird standing is.....
> 
> We are in trouble... out of 19 sent, we have 2 back.
> 
> #1 AVC 1108
> #2 Keyhole 424
> 
> I spoke to one other flyer at 4:00 and he did not have any birds yet.
> 
> Hope we get them tomorrow.


Hoping Tom is happy, how are the mother and baby????
As for the PT,
HORSES FOR COURSES! Yippee!
Congratulations Happy! I'm happy too!
Good luck to the other birds! Hope they all make it back.


----------



## Happy

*Happy is Happy *



jpsnapdy said:


> Hoping Tom is happy, how are the mother and baby????
> As for the PT,
> HORSES FOR COURSES! Yippee!
> Congratulations Happy! I'm happy too!
> Good luck to the other birds! Hope they all make it back.


Jpsnapdy, Just got home from Dancing & see I won this hard 300mi. Makes my Day. Thanks for the Congrads. Jpsnapdy & all. Jpsnapdy Congrads. to you for your bird also. I wonder if our two came in a drop? Guess we will find out Sun./Mon. a full report. Know that I hope also that many get home in the morn.. Really good birds out. 
Tom, I know you have had a tuff time all yr. with all the family problems & Soccer games, then handling all these birds to 6 races so far, training, clock problems, chips, vaccinations, indivdual pictures with band #'s twice for all of us to see ours & other Birds, new loft for us etc.. So Thank You for getting this PT going for another yr.. Happy, Yahoo!!!!


----------



## rackerman

Congrats to Happy & Jpsnapdy. I am happy for yas'. 

I just hope the Cov birds and the others make it back!!!

We still have two races left, so they better hurry home. 

I am sick to my stomach worrying about them


----------



## Gnuretiree

Tom,
Glad you got a good report on your wife and baby. Sounds like you and she had one very stressful day yesterday. You sure have one full plate. Thanks for all your efforts here.

Hugh


----------



## jpsnapdy

rackerman said:


> Congrats to Happy & Jpsnapdy. I am happy for yas'.
> 
> I just hope the Cov birds and the others make it back!!!
> 
> We still have two races left, so they better hurry home.
> 
> I am sick to my stomach worrying about them


Thanks,
I really hope the other birds make it too!


----------



## SouthTown Racers

Congrats!!!! Fingers crossed that the others make it in this morning. Sure is one heck of a race course you guys fly out there!!!


----------



## Thunderbird Racing

SouthTown Racers said:


> Congrats!!!! Fingers crossed that the others make it in this morning. Sure is one heck of a race course you guys fly out there!!!


no doubt!!

Hope all is well with you and yours Tom!


----------



## ace in the hole

The birds that made it back yesterday were some tough and persistant birds. I am hoping we can get an update on the list this morning.


----------



## Josepe

Yea we'll all be waiting on a update(s)


----------



## bbcdon

Congratulations to the both of you!


----------



## SouthTown Racers

Looks like we got some more in!!!


----------



## Flapdoodle

#1 1108 3:55 PM
#2 424 5:10 PM
#3 1006 7:23 AM
#4 1442 7:37 AM

I will post again around noon my time. Hope we get some more by then.


----------



## mtripOH

Flapdoodle said:


> #1 1108 3:55 PM
> #2 424 5:10 PM
> #3 1006 7:23 AM
> #4 1442 7:37 AM
> 
> I will post again around noon my time. Hope we get some more by then.


Thanks for the update Tom. Not what I was hoping for but still holding out hope. Come on COVies!!


----------



## ace in the hole

Flapdoodle said:


> #1 1108 3:55 PM
> #2 424 5:10 PM
> #3 1006 7:23 AM
> #4 1442 7:37 AM


Well Josepe, it looks like 1006 just couldn't wait for 105 any more. Hope she and most of the others make it back...


----------



## hillfamilyloft

1006's Dam 620 was in the money in a tough 300. Deep down I knew that bird would make it home. Good to see a few more home. I bet they come trickling in today.


----------



## Josepe

Glad my boy made it back.He's been Consistent from the start.Sure hope they all make it in today.


----------



## Josepe

Ace,

Hope she makes it back along with the others.


----------



## ace in the hole

Josepe said:


> Ace,
> Hope she makes it back along with the others.


You ment ahead of the others didn't you?


----------



## Josepe

Sure I meant ahead of the others.


----------



## rackerman

Guess I jinked myself I hope the birds all make it back soon!!! There still is two race's, so hopefully were still in this thing.

Come on Cov birds, get your butts home!!!


----------



## Josepe

Rackerman,
Hope they make it back aslo,and all the others too.But the COV birds will probably have to look for new perches.The top 3 birds in this Yard Stick 300 have probably taken theirs.


----------



## Flapdoodle

Flapdoodle said:


> #1 1108 3:55 PM
> #2 424 5:10 PM
> #3 1006 7:23 AM
> #4 1442 7:37 AM
> 
> I will post again around noon my time. Hope we get some more by then.


#5 105 9:38 AM
#6 33 10:52 AM

non PT bird from the B race: 34698 8:44 AM 

7 out 19 so far


----------



## rackerman

Alright Cov33 is back and takes 6th!! Come on Cov32 & Cov26, get your butts home!!!
I want to see all the birds back too!!


----------



## ace in the hole

Flapdoodle said:


> #5 105 9:38 AM
> #6 33 10:52 AM
> 
> non PT bird from the B race: 34698 8:44 AM
> 
> 7 out 19 so far


It's about time those Hill/Ace birds kicked some COV a$$.

Tuff race. Hoping for a safe return of the others still out.


----------



## conditionfreak

ace in the hole said:


> It's about time those Hill/Ace birds kicked some COV a$$.
> 
> Tuff race. Hoping for a safe return of the others still out.


Yep. Gotta hand it to your 105. It finally beat COV-33, by one placement.

You should be thrilled. Not many have.


----------



## ace in the hole

conditionfreak said:


> Yep. Gotta hand it to your 105. It finally beat COV-33, by one placement.
> 
> You should be thrilled. Not many have.


I was also talking about 1006.

They both beat 33 last week too. It is getting down to the finnish. These next two races will make or break them.


----------



## conditionfreak

I think COV-33 is tired. It looked it in the video and it should be tired. Giving that little extra effort for five races takes its toll on a bird. But there are six days until the next race.  How far is the next race?

C'mon 26 and 32. Get your butts home. All of the missing birds, GET HOME!


----------



## conditionfreak

Oh. My mistake. I just was looking at 1st place finishes. #33 has a few under its belt.

Since it is a "last bird flying" format (points do count though), it is still just about anyones competition to win. If all of the birds get lost in the next two races, the bird that was kept back due to an injury, and flew one race early in the season, and came in last in that race, could win this competition. Just because it is still in the loft, sitting fat and sassy on a perch. Theoritically. 

But hey. Them's the rules. Let's see what these birds are made of.


----------



## ace in the hole

conditionfreak said:


> Oh. My mistake. I just was looking at 1st place finishes. #33 has a few under its belt.
> 
> Since it is a "last bird flying" format (points do count though), it is still just about anyones competition to win. If all of the birds get lost in the next two races, the bird that was kept back due to an injury, and flew one race early in the season, and came in last in that race, could win this competition. Just because it is still in the loft, sitting fat and sassy on a perch. Theoritically.
> 
> But hey. Them's the rules. Let's see what these birds are made of.


Ok, you win. He is the best! At least at the short distance.

Hey, what is racing without a little friendly competition.

Right down to the last bird standing. That was mentioned last year as well. This is a tuff course.


----------



## Josepe

Cov 32-7th


----------



## ace in the hole

Josepe said:


> Cov 32-7th


That's 12 to go...


----------



## conditionfreak

Fingers crossed for the rest.

Hey Mark. It's fun talking friendly trash. Just part of sports.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

I look for 108 in about 20 days.


----------



## ace in the hole

hillfamilyloft said:


> I look for 108 in about 20 days.


Ya, her other loft is probably closer to the release station.


----------



## kbraden

Where, oh where, could they be????

Barnum & Bailey Circus was in Reno yesterday, maybe the birds joined that?


----------



## mtripOH

Come on home COV26! Sucks not knowing where she is. Glad to see all those that have made it back...still hoping and praying for everyone else to make it back.


----------



## Matt M

I'm watching from the sidelines on this competition but am really hoping all of the A and B birds show up eventually. I do know you are not alone and I have some things in common with the PT Classic birds, as we raced from Middlegate NV yesterday, birds probably took a path through Reno area and the returns were pretty bad for the whole club.

Only 1 bird of ours made real good time and did very good in the club race but then the rest were much, much later and just seemed completely confused. I got only 4 of 8 back yesterday and then only 1 more all day today which is weird as all 3 that are still out have already been as far as Fallon NV. I know it was windy and then very cloudy, low visibility in Blue Canyon and that area, they must have run into some real confusing conditions yesterday. I'm thinking you will get the rest PT Classic birds in the next couple days (hoping it's the same for my missing birds). Very tough conditions yesterday!!!


----------



## Flapdoodle

Flapdoodle said:


> #1 1108 3:55 PM
> #2 424 5:10 PM
> #3 1006 7:23 AM
> #4 1442 7:37 AM
> #5 105 9:38 AM
> #6 33 10:52 AM
> #7 32 11:26 AM
> #8 26 1:17 PM


8 out of 15 in the A race.
3 out of 4 in the B race. 

Hope to see more in the morning. 

I think the plan is to train all those that did not race three or four times this week. We are tossing in the morning. I think I may bench all the birds that raced this week. Let them rest this next race and then get everyone back together for the last race in two weeks.


----------



## Flapdoodle

conditionfreak said:


> Oh. My mistake. I just was looking at 1st place finishes. #33 has a few under its belt.
> 
> Since it is a "last bird flying" format (points do count though), it is still just about anyones competition to win. If all of the birds get lost in the next two races, the bird that was kept back due to an injury, and flew one race early in the season, and came in last in that race, could win this competition. Just because it is still in the loft, sitting fat and sassy on a perch. Theoritically.
> 
> But hey. Them's the rules. Let's see what these birds are made of.


I will post the points when I get the combine results. 1108 picked up some points in the club not sure about the combine.


----------



## mtripOH

WOOO HOOO!!! COV26 made it back home! After winning last week she thought she would share the glory! This has been one of the longest days of my adult life. Josiah has perked up and is now laughing in his bed. What a way to end the night. I am holding high hopes that ALL birds will be in by tomorrow afternoon. What a tough race. Tom, I am all for giving those that made it through a much needed break this week.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Did 108 show up from the B race?


----------



## conditionfreak

I think letting all the ones that raced this past weekend rest a week is a good idea. Maybe train them short Wednesday and a little longer Friday. Then train short twice next week to tune them up for the final race. Weather permitting. Not many flyers send birds to every race in a season. Some birds have been to every race thus far and they could use a rest. These birds obviously know how to find home, so it won't take much to get them ready. Long training tosses would not be necessary in my opinion. Fill them up with brown rice prior to basketing them up for the final race. The brown rice will hold water in them, assuming they get a drink before being let up by the trucker/releaser.

Maybe fly those that did not race this weekend, next weekend. Give them some experience to get ready for that last and final race.

Sorry for those still MIA, but I am real happy for those that made it home. Especially those COV birds. They just hang in there like a hair in a booger. 

That last race should be very exciting. Several birds still have a shot at the title. No one has it locked up yet.

Place your bets ladies and gentlemen.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

All I know is it might be hard to find a winner out of this bunch. There are about 5 or 6 birds that could take this thing. One good combine result and it is theres. 1108 might take the lead with yesterdays finish.


----------



## Pigeon0446

conditionfreak said:


> I think letting all the ones that raced this past weekend is a good idea. Not many flyers send birds to every race in a season. Some birds have been to every race thus far and they could use a rest.
> 
> Maybe fly those that did not race this weekend, next weekend. Give them some experience to get ready for that last and final race.
> 
> Sorry for the those still MIA, but I am real happy for those that made it home. Especially those COV birds. They just hang in there like a hair in a booger.
> 
> That last race should be very interesting.


I'm one of the not many that ships birds to every race. With only a 20 bird limit on most races I can't ship all the birds every week but if the bird keeps coming they keep going. Like the bird I have this year who has been in the top 10 spots in the race the past 3 weeks. Today being the best finish she's had so far which was 2nd. Last year I had 3 birds fly 2 300 mile races in one weekend one on Saturday then again on Sunday one of them was in the top 10% in both races the other 2 were only in the top 10% in the 300 on Saturday and a lil late on Sunday. One of them turned out to be a IF Hall of Fame Bird this past OB season. She flew over 2300 mile worth of races in the 10 week YB season. And another 2400 miles in OB's. Not counting all the training tosses they go on.


----------



## rackerman

Wow, all 3 Cov birds made it back and are still in this thing!!!!!! YEPPY


----------



## rackerman

*I'm happy for yas'!  Were doing just fine*


mtripOH said:


> WOOO HOOO!!! COV26 made it back home! After winning last week she thought she would share the glory! This has been one of the longest days of my adult life. Josiah has perked up and is now laughing in his bed. What a way to end the night. I am holding high hopes that ALL birds will be in by tomorrow afternoon. What a tough race. Tom, I am all for giving those that made it through a much needed break this week.


----------



## rackerman

*Tom, I think that's a great idea!! Them Cov birds have been in every race and I am sure they could use a break for the finale!! Just make sure they don't get fat and lazy*


Flapdoodle said:


> 8 out of 15 in the A race.
> 3 out of 4 in the B race.
> 
> Hope to see more in the morning.
> 
> I think the plan is to train all those that did not race three or four times this week. We are tossing in the morning. I think I may bench all the birds that raced this week. Let them rest this next race and then get everyone back together for the last race in two weeks.


----------



## Crazy Pete

Well a big congrats to the winners.
You still have 3 cov birds in the running your 50/50 for the season, wish I could say that. I think I like 1108, 1006, and 33 the best, if you could get some young birds from them and put em in the Breast Cancer Auction that would be great.Just a thought.
Dave


----------



## jpsnapdy

Flapdoodle said:


> 8 out of 15 in the A race.
> 3 out of 4 in the B race.
> 
> Hope to see more in the morning.
> 
> I think the plan is to train all those that did not race three or four times this week. We are tossing in the morning. I think I may bench all the birds that raced this week. Let them rest this next race and then get everyone back together for the last race in two weeks.


Hi Tom,
You're the one who's the most able to judge seeing the birds' condition after the race. Regarding 424, she has been held back already and seems to be coming into form now, I think I would have sent her to the next race after a shortish mid-week toss, but again, you're the best judge and I leave it to you.


----------



## rackerman

Tom, Do you have an update yet?? I am hoping to see more returns! Sure am happy to see all the Cov birds returned safe & sound


----------



## Josepe

Tom,
The rest from the next race is a good decision. And it'll put 1006 right on target to win the final 300.


----------



## rackerman

*Let's not count our eggs before they hatch! I learned that in the last race....*


Josepe said:


> Tom,
> The rest from the next race is a good decision. And it'll put 1006 right on target to win the final 300.


----------



## Flapdoodle

rackerman said:


> Tom, Do you have an update yet?? I am hoping to see more returns! Sure am happy to see all the Cov birds returned safe & sound


Nothing new to report as of 9:00 AM this morning. Currently three groups, in seprate sections. Those that raced Saturday, I tossed all the other birds this morning. A group trapped in together and I listed them on the spreadsheet. The third group will be any bird that trapped in after I left for work. A few were not back when I left around 9:00. I left the trap open and feed out in one section for those from the toss or returning race birds. When I get home I will update the list again.


----------



## Flapdoodle

hillfamilyloft said:


> All I know is it might be hard to find a winner out of this bunch. There are about 5 or 6 birds that could take this thing. One good combine result and it is theres. 1108 might take the lead with yesterdays finish.


When I get the combine results I will post the points standings. I believe 1108will earn some points in the combine. We were in the bottom end of the points in the club. 



hillfamilyloft said:


> Did 108 show up from the B race?


We had the room, 108 was in the A race...I have not seen her yet. Maybe she is visting her other loft.


----------



## Flapdoodle

jpsnapdy said:


> Hi Tom,
> You're the one who's the most able to judge seeing the birds' condition after the race. Regarding 424, she has been held back already and seems to be coming into form now, I think I would have sent her to the next race after a shortish mid-week toss, but again, you're the best judge and I leave it to you.


I will be tossing both groups back together maybe tomorrow or for sure Wednesday AM. I will see how your bird looks. 

If there is anyone that would rather have there bird go this weekend or maybe locked down completely let me know. The current plan is any bird that I feel is able to race that did not race last weekend will go unless I hear otherwise.


----------



## Josepe

Rackerman,
My post was in jest.Not counting anything before anything.Though I know he is Capable of doing it along with 5-6 others.The Best Bird will win that day.
Yes I can see where you would count your chickens before they hatch with 33 having 3 1st places so far,but Anything can happen, like did in the last race,with the 3 COV birds finishing 6th 7th and 8th.I believe in the last race you'll see the Horses for Coarses or Paces for Races theory come into play.
Also I think KEYHOLE 424 will be in the mix like he has the last two.It'll be the 300 Shootout.


----------



## Josepe

Combine results from the AU site:
http://pigeon-ndb.com/race_reports.php?Org=Auburn RPC&DateRace=0&season=2011yb


----------



## hillfamilyloft

wow a spankin' by Sierra Ranch


----------



## ace in the hole

Flapdoodle said:


> I will be tossing both groups back together maybe tomorrow or for sure Wednesday AM. I will see how your bird looks.
> 
> *If there is anyone that would rather have there bird go this weekend or maybe locked down completely let me know*. The current plan is any bird that I feel is able to race that did not race last weekend will go unless I hear otherwise.


On my 105 I would say it depends on when she drops her 9th flights. If she is in good shape now, traps in well on the trainings and has a "full" wing this weekend send her. If she is missing that 9th I would hold from the 318 next week as well. I know in your video she had only 1/2" of the 8th to grow in.

I see no reason to throw the bird away just to fly it.


----------



## Josepe

Tom,
Let me know also about 1006's 8th and 9th flights .Just remembered also on the video you said he was close to dropping one of the 9ths


----------



## rackerman

*I have to razz you a little bit*


Josepe said:


> Rackerman,
> My post was in jest.Not counting anything before anything.Though I know he is Capable of doing it along with 5-6 others.The Best Bird will win that day.
> Yes I can see where you would count your chickens before they hatch with 33 having 3 1st places so far,but Anything can happen, like did in the last race,with the 3 COV birds finishing 6th 7th and 8th.I believe in the last race you'll see the Horses for Coarses or Paces for Races theory come into play.
> Also I think KEYHOLE 424 will be in the mix like he has the last two.It'll be the 300 Shootout.


----------



## jpsnapdy

Flapdoodle said:


> I will be tossing both groups back together maybe tomorrow or for sure Wednesday AM. I will see how your bird looks.
> 
> If there is anyone that would rather have there bird go this weekend or maybe locked down completely let me know. The current plan is any bird that I feel is able to race that did not race last weekend will go unless I hear otherwise.


That sounds fine by me. 
Also please don't race her on a bloodquill s all.


----------



## jpsnapdy

Josepe said:


> Tom,
> Let me know also about 1006's 8th and 9th flights .Just remembered also on the video you said he was close to dropping one of the 9ths


I must have missed that Vid! Can someone please post a link!


----------



## eyespyer

Flapdoodle said:


> I will be tossing both groups back together maybe tomorrow or for sure Wednesday AM. I will see how your bird looks.
> 
> If there is anyone that would rather have there bird go this weekend or maybe locked down completely let me know. The current plan is any bird that I feel is able to race that did not race last weekend will go unless I hear otherwise.


Sounds good to me


----------



## Crazy Pete

Flapdoodle said:


> If you have a 20 mintues or so to kill.
> 
> 
> http://youtu.be/_dDZiOL-BWg
> 
> http://youtu.be/vtkBj62edhw
> 
> Unedited and kind of long. I say in the video a bunch of times "this bird is molted out" what I really should of said is "this bird is through the worst of the head molt".
> 
> My plan is to send all the birds this week unless it is missing two or more flights. I will hold the birds that have trapped in last since Monday. Including 19252 who trapped in this morning.
> 
> I might sit on a few of the birds again that are still pretty naked around the neck/head.
> 
> If anyone wants me to give his or her bird a break this week, shoot me a PM. No need to write if you want them sent.


Here is your link.
Dave


----------



## jpsnapdy

Crazy Pete said:


> Here is your link.
> Dave


Thanx Dave!


----------



## rackerman

Heres Tom's list--- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...iTdGo1QS1yenNPUl8zU0FWMEpMNG44TUE&output=html , what happen to the rest of the birds from Saturdays race They don't even appear on the list???

Didn't anymore return?


----------



## Josepe

Apparently they're still missing unless Tom posts an update of any that's made it back.


----------



## kbraden

Weather is really crappy here now. Winter Storm Warning issued for the next 2 days, calling for high winds 100+ mph & snow up on the pass, heck it is the first week of October! I am in the valley east of Reno and even we are listed in the warning for unseasonable cold temps, high winds & rain. Temp has really dropped outside this afternoon and wind is ripping. Just came in from closing up windows & doors on the lofts & putting in the plexiglass panel over the big screen opening. 
For the birds that didn't make it home, including mine, I just hope they are somewhere safe & out of the nasty weather coming in, even if living under an overpass


----------



## Flapdoodle

rackerman said:


> Heres Tom's list--- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...iTdGo1QS1yenNPUl8zU0FWMEpMNG44TUE&output=html , what happen to the rest of the birds from Saturdays race They don't even appear on the list???
> 
> Didn't anymore return?


They are on the list. Band numbers are listed, those that are still out are yellow. No new birds are back.


----------



## Flapdoodle

kbraden said:


> Weather is really crappy here now. Winter Storm Warning issued for the next 2 days, calling for high winds 100+ mph & snow up on the pass, heck it is the first week of October! I am in the valley east of Reno and even we are listed in the warning for unseasonable cold temps, high winds & rain. Temp has really dropped outside this afternoon and wind is ripping. Just came in from closing up windows & doors on the lofts & putting in the plexiglass panel over the big screen opening.
> For the birds that didn't make it home, including mine, I just hope they are somewhere safe & out of the nasty weather coming in, even if living under an overpass


We are getting the cold weather and the rain down here. I was able to toss the birds yesterday. Loft flew as a group this morning but only for twenty minutes the birds are still pretty flat. This weather I am sure does not help. 

Out of the eleven flyers we started with in the club six are throwing in the towel and will not be shipping the last two races. This last race was tough. Those flyers that were on a system did get most of their birds back. They were slow but they got them back. 

I have been getting a few emails and calls about holding birds back from further tosses. 

Is the general feeling to call this thing at six races and not ship the remaining two? 

I am fine with whatever the group wants to do. Either way I will be shipping birds the next two weeks, I am running the race secretary gig. Kick it around....


----------



## rackerman

*Sorry Tom, guess I better get my eyes checked
Wow SNOW*


Flapdoodle said:


> They are on the list. Band numbers are listed, those that are still out are yellow. No new birds our back.


----------



## Gnuretiree

My birds haven't been around for awhile, so I don't feel I have any say in how to go forward, but I can understand anyone's not wanting to keep flying. Much like the six members that have thrown in the towel, at some point you realize it isn't fun for you or the birds anymore. That point is probably different for everyone. I'd think anyone with birds flying now realizes they are remarkable birds and have done a terrific job. Congratulations to everyone still standing. Great birds.


----------



## rackerman

*I am really confused now What are we doing, stopping the races? I would like to go with the plan on holding birds this weekend and send them all for the last race!*


Flapdoodle said:


> We are getting the cold weather and the rain down here. I was able to toss the birds yesterday. Loft flew as a group this morning but only for twenty minutes the birds are still pretty flat. This weather I am sure does not help.
> 
> Out of the eleven flyers we started with in the club six are throwing in the towel and will not be shipping the last two races. This last race was tough. Those flyers that were on a system did get most of their birds back. They were slow but they got them back.
> 
> I have been getting a few emails and calls about holding birds back from further tosses.
> 
> Is the general feeling to call this thing at six races and not ship the remaining two?
> I am fine with whatever the group wants to do. Either way I will be shipping birds the next two weeks, I am running the race secretary gig. Kick it around....


----------



## luckyloft

Tom, feel free to ship mine this weekend, even if they are the only 2.They haven't flown many races so I really dont know what they can do.Thanks again for doing this again this year. Jeff


----------



## bbcdon

luckyloft said:


> Tom, feel free to ship mine this weekend, even if they are the only 2.They haven't flown many races so I really dont know what they can do.Thanks again for doing this again this year. Jeff


I feel the same way Tom.


----------



## bbcdon

rackerman said:


> *Sorry Tom, guess I better get my eyes checked
> Wow SNOW*


The top of Donner Summit is a little over 7,000 feet. I have been over it in the middle of winter, and the snow depth at the top is unreal!


----------



## conditionfreak

I kind of, in a way, have a dog in this fight (bad metaphor I guess). So I will give my opinion.

The COV birds in this competition were planned, hatch, raised and trained to race. That is what racing pigeons are for. Racing.

But of course, no one wants to just throw them away. So, I say let the ones that flew in the last race rest. Then ship them to the final race ten days from now. If they get lost, then that is terrible. But they have already shown they can come home very a long race on a very tough day. Those that did not race last time, should probably race this weekend if they are healthy enough. They need the experience to be ready for that last race.

That is what racing pigeons do. Race. Let them show their stuff. Instead of wondering all year what could have been.

I say this not knowing one way or the other if COV-33 is currently in the lead for the championship. Matters not. Let the champion be crowned the way it was meant to be crowned. Beating the other pigeons on the seasons performance.

It is each individuals call with their pigeons. I know rackerman and mtripoh both want their birds to survive and come home to them. But they also got into this competition to win. Not to "show". They both have a chance to win. Anything can happen of course, but I have confidence in the birds that came home from that last race. Good birds all.

And I pray they all come home if they are sent. Late or early. Just make it home.


----------



## Crazy Pete

My birds may be on the endangered species list " they are lost " but I agree with conditionfreak. Racing homers race it's what they do, if they can't make it through the season and you bring them home all you will breed is more birds that can not make it through the season. Finish what you started.
Dave


----------



## rackerman

*I agree with Walt. I don't want to throw the towel in now!! I want a shot at winning this thing and if we stop now I loss that chance. I say hold the birds that raced the last race and race them the next week and see who wins. Yes, I want Cov32 & Cov33 shipped back after the race, but I also want them to do the last race. I know its taking a chance and I am willing to take it!! Like Walt said they were "planned, hatch, raised and trained to race. That is what racing pigeons are for, Racing".
SO LETS RACE THEM!!

[[/I] *


conditionfreak said:


> I kind of, in a way, have a dog in this fight (bad metaphor I guess). So I will give my opinion.
> 
> The COV birds in this competition were planned, hatch, raised and trained to race. That is what racing pigeons are for. Racing.
> 
> But of course, no one wants to just throw them away. So, I say let the ones that flew in the last race rest. Then ship them to the final race ten days from now. If they get lost, then that is terrible. But they have already shown they can come home very a long race on a very tough day. Those that did not race last time, should probably race this weekend if they are healthy enough. They need the experience to be ready for that last race.
> 
> That is what racing pigeons do. Race. Let them show their stuff. Instead of wondering all year what could have been.
> 
> I say this not knowing one way or the other if COV-33 is currently in the lead for the championship. Matters not. Let the champion be crowned the way it was meant to be crowned. Beating the other pigeons on the seasons performance.
> 
> It is each individuals call with their pigeons. I know rackerman and mtripoh both want their birds to survive and come home to them. But they also got into this competition to win. Not to "show". They both have a chance to win. Anything can happen of course, but I have confidence in the birds that came home from that last race. Good birds all.
> 
> And I pray they all come home if they are sent. Late or early. Just make it home.


----------



## Happy

*Lets Race*



rackerman said:


> *I am really confused now What are we doing, stopping the races? I would like to go with the plan on holding birds this weekend and send them all for the last race!*


I agree with Rackerman & others. Lets Race the last 320mi. race to all possible birds. These birds were breed for Young Bird Race's ONLY. Lets finish the season as planned!!! Thanks, Happy


----------



## rackerman

*THANKS HAPPY!! THAT'S WHAT I WANTED TO HEAR! I WILL SAY YOU HAVE SOME AWESOME BIRDS. GOOD LUCK WITH WHATEVER HAPPENS BEEN A TRILLER THIS FAR.*


Happy said:


> I agree with Rackerman & others. Lets Race the last 320mi. race to all possible birds. These birds were breed for Young Bird Race's ONLY. Lets finish the season as planned!!! Thanks, Happy


----------



## Flapdoodle

Champ Bird based on the rules:

Champ Bird

The above is based on the original rules. If we called it today COV 33 is "The" bird. 

If you want to crunch numbers you can take a look at this: 

BEST Bird

It has COV 33 in a tie with LL1006 for first, GFTG 105 in third, and fourth a tie between COV 26 and AVC 1108.


----------



## Flapdoodle

Guys I am not voting to throw in the towel. I want to race as well. I personally don't think it is fair to the top guys in the club to pull out part way through the season just because I am getting an a#[email protected]%# kicking. The exception is unless I don't think the birds can make it. 

The four volunteers in the loft are still around and I plan to send the one that sat out last week this week. The other three will go to the last race.


----------



## SouthTown Racers

If my bird is ready, I sure would like to see it race!!!!!!!!


----------



## eyespyer

SouthTown Racers said:


> If my bird is ready, I sure would like to see it race!!!!!!!!


I agree !!! Race them


----------



## mtripOH

After conferring with Walt, Josiah says COV26 is in. However, he would like to see her sit out this Saturday. Tom, how has COV26 been doing since she made it back? I know you said the birds look flat but I am not too sure what you mean by "flat". Do you mean they just look tired?


----------



## hillfamilyloft

My thoughts are that the top birds sit out this week race. As long as their wings look good for the last race send them all and decide the winner. I think the rule to begin with was the birds with the most points in the combine. Even though I bred LL1006 and it is a very nice bird we should fall back on the original scoring system. All the birds left in the loft are tough birds. The top five or so have proved their worth. Let them race the last race and see which bird gets more points and wins this thing. My only concern is the birds dropping key flights that put them in a position not to compete or not be able to make it home. If any of the top birds were mine, I would race them if they are able. Would hate to see the winning bird sit out the last race.


----------



## rackerman

I'm happy Tom is not throwing in the towel and most still want to continue!!!!

Let finish this PT race Go Cov33!!!!!!!!


----------



## Josepe

Tom.
Hold back 1006 this week.Will see what his 9th flights look like before basketing for the last race.My decisoin if he'll go or not will be depend on that.


----------



## Flapdoodle

Josepe said:


> Tom.
> Hold back 1006 this week.Will see what his 9th flights look like before basketing for the last race.My decisoin if he'll go or not will be depend on that.


I will work on a video of all remaining birds next week, maybe Wednesday or Thursday. I will check flights and talk about how they feel and we can do what makes sense on a case by case basis.


----------



## rackerman

*Tom, that sounds great!! Thank you*


Flapdoodle said:


> I will work on a video of all remaining birds next week, maybe Wednesday or Thursday. I will check flights and talk about how they feel and we can do what makes sense on a case by case basis.


----------



## Josepe

Sounds good.


----------



## Matt Bell

Tom, I just want to say that even though I don't have a bird in the race you are an amazing pigeon person. Doing all this for free, putting up with the headaches, and you still keep coming back and trying to do whatever is possible to please everyone. (We all know not everyone can be pleased no matter what is done, but you sure are doing your best!) I would like to say thank you for everything that you have and are doing, and I know that you are doing the best for the birds, there isn't anyone on this site that could give a better effort than you as far as that goes. Job well done!


----------



## Thunderbird Racing

good luck to all that are still in this thing. While I wish my birds had made it back this week, I still feel like they did a decent job here. This was my first breeding year, and first race season. Not a total loss, I learned a lot. Look out next year!.


----------



## ace in the hole

Flapdoodle said:


> I will work on a video of all remaining birds next week, maybe Wednesday or Thursday. I will check flights and talk about how they feel and we can do what makes sense on a case by case basis.


Tom, thanks for everything you have done for us. Looking forward to the video.


----------



## Big T

Matt Bell said:


> Tom, I just want to say that even though I don't have a bird in the race you are an amazing pigeon person. Doing all this for free, putting up with the headaches, and you still keep coming back and trying to do whatever is possible to please everyone. (We all know not everyone can be pleased no matter what is done, but you sure are doing your best!) I would like to say thank you for everything that you have and are doing, and I know that you are doing the best for the birds, there isn't anyone on this site that could give a better effort than you as far as that goes. Job well done!


I Agree. Thanks again for all you have done. And thank your wife also, for putting up with us. Enjoy the kids and know you are blessed.

Tony


----------



## Flapdoodle

No baby yet... contractions but not real regular. Hopefully we can get through next weeks race. We are not due until the 27th but being my wife as done this a few times they have all come a little early. 

We have had crappy weather most the week. The last weather report I saw had clear skies this weekend and clear for next week. 

I went through the birds early this morning and pulled out I think six that are racing tomorrow. Unfortunately I left the list at home. The birds that were held back the past couple are going this week. 

Hope everyone that is racing does well.


----------



## rackerman

Thanks Tom! Good luck to everyone racing tomorrow!!


----------



## jpsnapdy

rackerman said:


> Thanks Tom! Good luck to everyone racing tomorrow!!


Thanx, seeing the course we fly, we're gonna need it!


----------



## PigeonVilla

Love following this thread thru the good and the bad , cant wait to see how it goes this weekend no matter who is in the race . Awesome!! keep up the great work and good luck on the baby end too !!


----------



## jpsnapdy

Good morning everyone
Any nooz?
Are they up yet?


----------



## kbraden

Birds should be passing by me anytime. Sun is shining, clear skies, no wind... approx. 50* at current time of 9:30 pst


----------



## rackerman

I hope everyone gets a good return!! Good luck!!!


----------



## bbcdon

Good luck to all of you!


----------



## bbcdon

How many hours do you think we are looking at for the first birds to arrive? Just a wild guess, as I know there are a lot of factors to consider.


----------



## ace in the hole

bbcdon said:


> How many hours do you think we are looking at for the first birds to arrive? Just a wild guess, as I know there are a lot of factors to consider.


Any time now. You just have to wait for Tom to post but he should have first bird by now if things went well.


----------



## bbcdon

ace in the hole said:


> Any time now. You just have to wait for Tom to post but he should have first bird by now if things went well.


Thanks for the reply.


----------



## Crazy Pete

If they were let up at 7:00 2:30 would be a really good time. Not knowing wind conditions, or when they were let up its hard to guess at when they should be back. Just guessing sun rise at 7:15 half hr after, so they should have been out by 8:00 so 3:30 would be around 1300 YPM. They should be home by now.
Dave


----------



## bbcdon

I wonder when we are going to get an update?


----------



## bbcdon

I just talked to Chou Hang, and he is at the Sierra Ranch Classic. He told me that Tom is there & is busy, so I do not think we will be getting an update until late tonite.


----------



## Flapdoodle

On my phone. Fast race

A race: GFTG 113, Aub 67, then 424
B race: SD 412, I 21582, zepp 6, at two we were missing one bird lky 1063.

When i get home tonight I will post more info


----------



## blongboy

cool ....i wonder how fast the race was?


----------



## jpsnapdy

Congrats blong boy and kalapati! and all that made it.

I'm glad my 424 is back.


----------



## Flapdoodle

A Race we sent 3 pigeons.

GFTG 113 @ 11:56
AUB 67 @ 12:06
KEYHOLE 424 @ 12:27

B Race we sent 4 pigeons.

SD 412 @ 12:39
I 21582 @ 1:19
ZEPP 6 @ 1:42

LKY 1063 is MIA?

I think our first birds are slow by 15 minutes or more. Knock off is not until Monday evening. The weather was perfect. Guys were commenting it was the best they have ever seen for a YB race. Pretty much no wind to speak of and cool weather. 

Hopefully next week will be more of the same. I will toss the birds three or four times. Thursday AM I will make the video. Be sure to check by Thursday evening. I will ship all the birds in the A race unless I hear from you by 12:00 Friday afternoon.


----------



## Crazy Pete

Now that is fast, if they were let out at 8 am they flew around 2200 ypm. At 7:30 that would still be around 1955 ypm. that is great congrats to the winner.
Dave


----------



## rackerman

Congrats blong boy and kalapati.


----------



## jpsnapdy

Hmm! Not many reactions? Busy week-end guys?
Is the interest dwindling? ding-a-ling?
Some birds are pulling themselves up in the charts. Not mine, tho! Pity some had to be held back twice!


----------



## mtripOH

Big congrats going out to Blongboy and Kalapati! Sending out good vibes for the safe return of LKY1063. Sounds like it was the perfect day to race yesterday. Hope it is a repeat next week for the grand finale! The weather here was just beautiful. I spent the entire day in the loft scraping, cleaning, fixing up and so forth. The birds have been cooped up as we have been having many hawks as of late, some red tails but mainly coopers.
Tom, how is the Mrs. and the baby? Did the baby turn or is she still breech?


----------



## Josepe

Congrats to the winners.Glad they all made it.Hopefully the last one will show up.That was a fast race.


----------



## conditionfreak

Very good showing by a couple of birds that haven't had much of a chance to show their stuff until now. Congrats.


----------



## ace in the hole

Congrats

Let's hope for a race day like this one for next week.


----------



## Kastle Loft

Flapdoodle said:


> A Race we sent 3 pigeons.
> 
> GFTG 113 @ 11:56
> AUB 67 @ 12:06
> KEYHOLE 424 @ 12:27
> 
> B Race we sent 4 pigeons.
> 
> SD 412 @ 12:39
> I 21582 @ 1:19
> ZEPP 6 @ 1:42
> 
> LKY 1063 is MIA?


Doesn't look like LKY 1063 has what it takes.  All that beauty rest didn't help so much afterall.

Thanks for caring for all our birds, Tom.


----------



## rackerman

Tom, Will You Being Post This Race On The Spread Stheet??

I Hope The Last Bird Returns Today!


----------



## rackerman

I can't wait for next weeks finale!!! I want to wish everyone good luck. Especially those Cov birds

Tom, I also want to thank you for everything you have done for us!!


----------



## kalapati

Flapdoodle said:


> No baby yet... contractions but not real regular. Hopefully we can get through next weeks race. We are not due until the 27th but being my wife as done this a few times they have all come a little early.


hi tom, they say that the west wind brings diligence, east wind – wisdom, north – courage and south – peace. let all these winds deliver what they carry to your baby.


kalapati
San Diego

http://blubarloft.dyndns.biz:81/Jview.htm


----------



## kalapati

Crazy Pete said:


> Now that is fast, if they were let out at 8 am they flew around 2200 ypm. At 7:30 that would still be around 1955 ypm. that is great congrats to the winner.
> Dave



sorry for not being updated but how far was this race? glad to see SD412 coming back from a long vacation.


kalapati
San Diego

http://blubarloft.dyndns.biz:81/Jview.htm


----------



## conditionfreak

Today I let out both my young and old birds. It was a beautiful day and they haven't been out in a while, so I did it.

Within two minutes of being let out, two (count'em, 2!) Coopers attacked at once. They apparently had been in the trees watching.

My birds scattered and the Coopers were hot on their trail in different directions. I had three 60 day olds birds in the mix. 

My feral "Lucky" hid underneath one of the lofts for three hours. Finally coming out and entering the loft. One all white homer came home four hours later, panting like heck.

Three young birds just hung around on the loft roof, worried but not seeming to know what to do. Lucky buggers.

I am out a total of one bird. Don't know which one yet. I have a total of 35 in those two lofts and I count 34.  But I have hopes the last one will show up.

I should not have let them out. I had a feeling it was a bad time to do it. But they have to come out sometime. I didn't see anything about, but I have a forest just a hundred feet away from my lofts.


----------



## conditionfreak

Surprisingly, I stopped at a yard sale and they had a Benzing Express electronic clocking system for sale. It was rough, corroded and missing the power cord. But it had two four stall wooden traps (without the bobs), and eight antennae pads (sensors). Two of those had the cords cut right up against the base. 

They didn't know if any of it worked or not as they bought a home with two lofts on it and they use them for show bantam chickens. The Benzing system was set up in the loft and they just yanked it out without taking too much care with it.

So, we settled on $40.00 for the thing and I told them if they located the power cord to please call me. An hour later they called me and they had located the power cord. I picked it up immediately. I told them that if the system worked I would give them another 40 bucks later. I have their phone number and address.

I contacted SouthTownRacers on here and asked for some advice as to where to plug the power cord in at and he helped me. I contacted him because he is selling a Benzing system, so I knew he would know how to operate it.

It has powered up and read "ext. bat. ok/aktiv", , then it read "4 (blinking)-2-000-06:01:45" ( last four are time clock running). Then it read "rstuvwxyz", with two arrows pointing at each other. It also continuously sounded a small siren until I push any button. Then if stops for a few seconds and starts alarming again.

Now, after I played with it awhile, it just has a yellow light on and no read out at all.

I found that it takes two 9 volt batteries and it only has one in it. The one in there is probably very old. Does this thing work off of batteries when plugged into an electrical socket? Is this thing salvagable? Does it have an internal battery besides the two 9 volts? I have an Unikon system and there is an internal battery that has to be changed by the manufacturer, at a considerable cost.

I have one sensor (pad) plugged it during all of this, but no signs that it is reading it.


----------



## Flapdoodle

kalapati said:


> sorry for not being updated but how far was this race? glad to see SD412 coming back from a long vacation.
> 
> 
> kalapati
> San Diego
> 
> http://blubarloft.dyndns.biz:81/Jview.htm


Battle Mnt 258 miles SD 412 1629 ypm 16th of 71

Elko is 318. It rained all day today.... Saturday weather report is currently 20% chance of rain for most the cities between here and Elko.


----------



## Thunderbird Racing

conditionfreak said:


> I contacted ThunderBirdRacing on here and asked for some advice as to where to plug the power cord in at and he helped me. I contacted him because he is selling a Benzing system, so I knew he would know how to operate it.


are there 2 people going by Thunderbird Racing? I don't know anything about Benzing clocks.


----------



## SouthTown Racers

Thunderbird Racing said:


> are there 2 people going by Thunderbird Racing? I don't know anything about Benzing clocks.


I think he meant SouthTown Racers because I have an express and I got his email


----------



## conditionfreak

Thunderbird Racing said:


> are there 2 people going by Thunderbird Racing? I don't know anything about Benzing clocks.


Ha Ha. My bad. I fixed it. But Thunderbird, you need to bone up on things in case I do call on you for advice. Ha Ha.

Reminds me of when I was a kid and we had a phone (rotary dial of course and a party line to boot). You used to dial "0" to get "information".

Anyway, one day I was doing my homework in the morning just before school and I needed to know how to spell "discipline". I dialed "0" and asked the operator how to spell information. She told me and then asked why I had called her with that question, and I replied "because you are information, right?". She laughed and said "well, I guess I am". Ha Ha


----------



## Thunderbird Racing

conditionfreak said:


> Ha Ha. My bad. I fixed it. But Thunderbird, you need to bone up on things in case I do call on you for advice. Ha Ha.
> 
> Reminds me of when I was a kid and we had a phone (rotary dial of course and a party line to boot). You used to dial "0" to get "information".
> 
> Anyway, one day I was doing my homework in the morning just before school and I needed to know how to spell "discipline". I dialed "0" and asked the operator how to spell information. She told me and then asked why I had called her with that question, and I replied "because you are information, right?". She laughed and said "well, I guess I am". Ha Ha


now that's funny!

My club all uses manual clocks. One guy has a Bricon, so I am thinking about that brand. any input on those would be awesome. 

I guess the T-birds from this race couldn't take the smoke or the storms, one. I hoped they would be home by now.


----------



## kalapati

conditionfreak said:


> It has powered up and read "ext. bat. ok/aktiv", , then it read "4 (blinking)-2-000-06:01:45" ( last four are time clock running). Then it read "rstuvwxyz", with two arrows pointing at each other. It also continuously sounded a small siren until I push any button. Then if stops for a few seconds and starts alarming again.
> 
> Now, after I played with it awhile, it just has a yellow light on and no read out at all.
> 
> I found that it takes two 9 volt batteries and it only has one in it. The one in there is probably very old. Does this thing work off of batteries when plugged into an electrical socket? Is this thing salvagable? Does it have an internal battery besides the two 9 volts? I have an Unikon system and there is an internal battery that has to be changed by the manufacturer, at a considerable cost.
> 
> I have one sensor (pad) plugged it during all of this, but no signs that it is reading it.


the 2 9V batteries are for temp power back up only and it still has an internal CMOS battery on it.

you got a good deal on that clock. i would call Ed Minville of http://www.siegelpigeons.com/ to get some advise. most likely he'll ask you to ship that clock for an overhaul. he charge me about $135 on my clock which includes new CMOS battery, software update and new face plate to make it look like new. it also said on the invoice that they cleaned the clock on the inside. the price is good for me since i got the clock free from another club member.


kalapati
San Diego

http://blubarloft.dyndns.biz:81/Jview.htm


----------



## conditionfreak

conditionfreak said:


> Today I let out both my young and old birds. It was a beautiful day and they haven't been out in a while, so I did it.
> 
> Within two minutes of being let out, two (count'em, 2!) Coopers attacked at once. They apparently had been in the trees watching.
> 
> My birds scattered and the Coopers were hot on their trail in different directions. I had three 60 day olds birds in the mix.
> 
> My feral "Lucky" hid underneath one of the lofts for three hours. Finally coming out and entering the loft. One all white homer came home four hours later, panting like heck.
> 
> Three young birds just hung around on the loft roof, worried but not seeming to know what to do. Lucky buggers.
> 
> I am out a total of one bird. Don't know which one yet. I have a total of 35 in those two lofts and I count 34.  But I have hopes the last one will show up.
> 
> I should not have let them out. I had a feeling it was a bad time to do it. But they have to come out sometime. I didn't see anything about, but I have a forest just a hundred feet away from my lofts.


I finally figured out which bird I was missing. A Catalonian hen that has a baby in the nest. Of all things! They are usually very good at hawk "dodging". I was surprised.

Well, she came home two days later. Must have got chased out of the county and finally found her way home.  Happy day!

Two hawks hitting simultaneously, with several squeakers on the roof, and no birds taken. Dodged a bullet. Two of them. 

Must have been the curse words I was uttering at those darn hawks.


----------



## conditionfreak

kalapati said:


> the 2 9V batteries are for temp power back up only and it still has an internal CMOS battery on it.
> 
> you got a good deal on that clock. i would call Ed Minville of http://www.siegelpigeons.com/ to get some advise. most likely he'll ask you to ship that clock for an overhaul. he charge me about $135 on my clock which includes new CMOS battery, software update and new face plate to make it look like new. it also said on the invoice that they cleaned the clock on the inside. the price is good for me since i got the clock free from another club member.
> 
> 
> kalapati
> San Diego
> 
> http://blubarloft.dyndns.biz:81/Jview.htm


Thanks. I replaced those batteries and now the screen just reads "Benzing Express, etc".

I have been reading up on these and it seems most think that they are not very user friendly and an M1 or G2 might be the way to go. Of course they cost a lot more than 40 bucks. But if I start putting more money into this thing, eventually I will get to the point where I could have got a good one.

Have to think about it.


----------



## rackerman

It seems like it's taking forever for this last race day to get here. I am just sitting here on pins and neddles.. I hope Tom get's the video's posted tomorrow. I am really looking forward to watching them for now!
I want to wish each and everyone of you good luck in this last race. I am really hoping I can win this thing, but as long as both my birds make it back I will be very happy. I am hoping to enter their offspring in the 3rd annual PT race next year. I am very happy with how my birds have preform. They are winners in my eyes and I couldn't be happier, (well maybe Saturday) Now, lets hope they can find their way home Saturday and all your birds too.
I want to thank Tom for the great job he has done for these races'. I also want to thank conditionfreak (Walt), for helping me out with Cov32 & Cov33. He is a great man and I am very proud of the Cov birds that he raised for me and Joshua, without him we wouldn't have even been in this years races. Walt has to be very proud to see how these Cov birds have preformed up to now. I feel in away Cov50 & Cov100 are living through the remaining Cov birds. I sure wish they could have still been here, it would of been alot different of a race, I am sure.
Anyway good luck to all of you Saturday and I hope to see you all in the PT races next year, it's going to be a great one.

*GO COV BIRDS, GO!!!!*


----------



## Flapdoodle

rackerman said:


> It seems like it's taking forever for this last race day to get here. I am just sitting here on pins and neddles.. I hope Tom get's the video's posted tomorrow. I am really looking forward to watching them for now!..............
> ...................
> ...................
> Anyway good luck to all of you Saturday and I hope to see you all in the PT races next year, it's going to be a great one.
> 
> *GO COV BIRDS, GO!!!!*


You guys are going to hate.... 

Video is not in the cards. I just don't have the time. The birds look great. Almost all are 100% through the head molt and are slicked out pretty good. The question is the flights. Friday afternoon when I basket I will look at each pigeon. As long as a bird does not have a blood quill I usually ship unless it is missing more then one flight on a side. I realize some might want a bird held back. I am going to clear my pm box. Please shoot me a PM and let me know what you would like me to do as far as shipping your bird to this last race. 

Examples of what I am looking for are: "Please don't ship my bird if it is missing a flight or has a flight that is not at least half grown in" or "Hold off on my birds all together" or "Use for best judgement but my vote is to let them race" 

Sorry for no video... I am just getting pulled in to many directions and don't have enough daylight. I will work on getting the combine high points posted as of this last week.


----------



## Flapdoodle

Here are the current point standings:

HIGHT POINTS 

With the top 20 birds in the combine getting between 100-175 points a race it is really up in the air at this point. If we can get a few to score well in the combine this thing will be pretty close. It might be a flawed system but it is the system. 

The top birds will all be in the A race.


----------



## Josepe

Um um um.The video would've helped alot in making a visual judgement on our own birds.But it is what it is and another thing we don't have any control over.


----------



## Crazy Pete

kalapati said:


> sorry for not being updated but how far was this race? glad to see SD412 coming back from a long vacation.
> 
> 
> kalapati
> San Diego
> 
> http://blubarloft.dyndns.biz:81/Jview.htm



I thought it was 300, guess I was wrong but the speed was still fast.
Dave


----------



## rackerman

How far is this last race?


----------



## Flapdoodle

Elko NV, 318 miles. 

My wife is dilated to a two (what ever that means). Contractions are not real regular. Hoping we can hold off on the new one until after we ship to the race. 

I have heard from a few of you. If you would like me to call when I go to basket them at the loft to go to shipping PM your phone number. If no baby it will be around 5:00-5:30 my time. 

The birds felt great this morning, it was only a short toss.


----------



## kalapati

Flapdoodle said:


> I have heard from a few of you. If you would like me to call when I go to basket them at the loft to go to shipping PM your phone number. If no baby it will be around 5:00-5:30 my time.
> 
> The birds felt great this morning, it was only a short toss.


if SD412 made it home in the last race with flight #8 not fully grown, i think we should ship her this final race.

kalapati
San Diego

http://blubarloft.dyndns.biz:81/Jview.htm


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## rackerman

*Tom, I want Cov33 & Cov32 to fly this last race!! So, make sure you basket them*


----------



## jpsnapdy

Good luck everyone for this last race!
Wishing one of those darn COV birds come *first combine* for once! LOL!
Secretly hoping 424 will achieve that though, ha ha ha!
Have fun guys!


----------



## Southwing

Yes, my bird came back and looks like he will be racing the last race.  Happy


----------



## SouthTown Racers

Tom, Hope all is well with the family!! Just wanted to ask how the wing is looking on that MTP BB


----------



## mtripOH

Good luck to all racers tomorrow. We are hoping for COV26 to make it back 1st but more importantly we are hope for her safe return as well as for everyone else to make it back safely.
Tom, I hope all is well with your wife and that her labor goes smoothly. I want to also thank Tom from the bottom of my heart for all he has done with getting our birds to the races and all that entails. You have had your hands full with your family commitments as well as training and keeping our birds. Thanks for giving us the opportunity to be part of the PT Classic! 
A big thanks also goes out to Walt for without his kindness and generosity we would not be part of this race at all. Walt, thanks for enabling a Jr flier to experience pigeon racing if even from afar. We look forward to meeting you someday soon. 
Now with all that sappiness out of the way...Let the grand finale begin! Tom, give those Covie birds an extra pat or two


----------



## conditionfreak

mtripoh. Not a big deal (wish COV-26 had been MY entry, Ha Ha Ha). If you ever get down this way, stop by and get some free birds. Or a German Shepherd! Josiah can play with the miniature horses, and see the worlds biggest Coopers Hawk. The one that keeps "visiting" me. 

Ha Ha


Good luck to all tomorrow, and good luck to Tom in the Combine results, with whatever bird can do it for him.


----------



## conditionfreak

Folks. Tomorrow a racing pigeon will go down in Pigeon-Talk history.

Here is a small video that might get you even more hyped for the event. If that is possible. Ha Ha

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=9cON-qg2Qvo

AND, let's not forget the current Champion, "Vanilla Ice". The first and a part of history here on this forum, for sure.

But tomorrow, a new champion is crowned. Hopefully it will be a blue bar (wink, wink).


----------



## jpsnapdy

Very pleasant vid. Thanks Walt & Tom for all the entertainment. Rock on Don & all! 
Good luck to all tomorrow. I do wish one of the PT birds tops the combine! What an ending it would be...


----------



## rackerman

*Well thank you!! Me too
Good luck to you too*


jpsnapdy said:


> Good luck everyone for this last race!
> Wishing one of those darn COV birds come *first combine* for once! LOL!
> Secretly hoping 424 will achieve that though, ha ha ha!
> Have fun guys!


----------



## rackerman

*Thanks Walt! Cool Video, got me pumped up!! *


conditionfreak said:


> Folks. Tomorrow a racing pigeon will go down in Pigeon-Talk history.
> 
> Here is a small video that might get you even more hyped for the event. If that is possible. Ha Ha
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=9cON-qg2Qvo
> 
> AND, let's not forget the current Champion, "Vanilla Ice". The first and a part of history here on this forum, for sure.
> 
> But tomorrow, a new champion is crowned. Hopefully it will be a blue bar (wink, wink).


----------



## rackerman

I want to wish everyone the best of luck tomorrow. I hope every bird makes it back safe!! This has been really fun and your all great sports!! I love this racing and I am addicted for life! 
I just can't wait for next year now. 

Thank you Tom for everything, if not for you we would have never had a 2nd annual PT race this year. I also want to thank Walt for all his support, like I said before, if Walt didn't raise Cov33 & Cov32 for me I would have never been here. This has been one of the funnest times of my life and I am so very happy that Walt is going to hold the 3rd annual PT race!! I can't wait!!!

Good luck everyone and may all Pigeons return safe and sound.

Go Cov birds!!!


----------



## mtripOH

Looks like clear skies from Elko to New Castle. Upper 70's to low 80's. 20% chance of rain. SW winds 5-10. Compared to what we have going on here along Lake Erie that is pretty good weather. High winds here, out of the west at 36 MPH. Blah grey skies.


----------



## Josepe

Well the 300 Shootout.There could be some dissapointed people at the end of this one.


----------



## ace in the hole

Josepe said:


> Well the 300 Shootout.There could be some dissapointed people at the end of this one.


Let's just hope for perfect racing weather and great returns. If Tom is not off adding to his family right now I would hope to see an update to the list so we know who is flying today.

Good luck to all.


----------



## Josepe

Good luck to all and hope they all return.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

*Go Hillfamily Birds*


----------



## rackerman

I hope the birds are flying


----------



## hillfamilyloft

I can see this bunch giving Tom crud if he did not get them to basketing because he was having a baby. Reminds me of when I was born and my grandfather came up to see me/go fishing. My first picture has two 20+" trout in it. My grandmother was holding me up while my grandfather held up the fish. I think the picture was meant for the fish. I was to the side, held up in the picture at the last minute. Boys will be boys. "Whens the little tike gonna gonna be old enough so he can scrape the loft?"


----------



## mtripOH

hillfamilyloft said:


> I can see this bunch giving Tom crud if he did not get them to basketing because he was having a baby. Reminds me of when I was born and my grandfather came up to see me/go fishing. My first picture has two 20+" trout in it. My grandmother was holding me up while my grandfather held up the fish. I think the picture was meant for the fish. I was to the side, held up in the picture at the last minute. Boys will be boys. "Whens the little tike gonna gonna be old enough so he can scrape the loft?"


That's funny  If Tom did not make it to basketing I surely wouldn't give him any grief. It would kind of be a relief in a way. I would know then that COV24 was safe in the loft and will be back in Ohio in the very near future. This waiting/hoping/fretting is getting the best of me!


----------



## hillfamilyloft

There is always a chance of loosing a bird every time you send it to a race. Here they have a few extra things against them. Most are not on a full wing due to the molt and this is a tough course. A bird with a hole in its wing is never going to be as good as a full winged full molted bird. These birds don't have to just make it home, but also get some points to beat Cov 33. A tough task indeed.


----------



## rackerman

*I also won't give Tom any grief. He's doing the best he can! I am on pins and neddles too. I have to start getting ready for work now, so I will check back one more time before then. I will try to check back at my lunch hour.

Go Cov birds, Go!!*


----------



## rackerman

Tom has always posted by now I am thinking he had to rush the wife to ER. My biggest worry right now is if the birds are just sitting there in the basket!!!!!


----------



## First To Hatch

hillfamilyloft said:


> Boys will be boys. "Whens the little tike gonna gonna be old enough so he can scrape the loft?"


Hey Randy! My 3 soon to be 4 in February year old nephew, can scrape my loft. He even begs to go "clean the pigeons poop". Kinda funny I always give him a dollar when he helps so he can save up and buy a "sports car".


----------



## kbraden

You all had good weather today, started off a bit cloudy, but no wind or rain, and it is almost 3pm here (same time as Tom) Sunrise wasn't til 7am so release may not have been til 7:30 & 8, so around 3:30-4pm I would think birds would begin showing up.


----------



## Southwing

Anyone heard if Tom made shipping ?


----------



## rackerman

Does anyone know whats going on with Tom???


----------



## bbcdon

I just got off the phone with Steve Sterchi, who runs the Sierra Ranch Classic. He told me that Tom was there last nite helping with the loading of the birds, and he said that Tom was very nervous about his wife's condition. Who knows, maybe the stork delivered a package for Tom & his family today!


----------



## Flapdoodle

Sorry everybody, we did ship last night. I don't know what I did wrong. Maybe I gotsome "help" with feeding yesterday. We were in the birthing center yesterday morning. After about 5 hours they sent us home. At about 2:00 I got home and gave the birds 3/4 of a daily ration. 

Long story short we are getting birds just way late. 

When I left home about an hour ago we had 424, 113, 1108, 1442 in that order. We are at least an hour behind the guy I train with so that means there is not a chance of any points in the combine. If that COV bird shows up he wins!!! Keep your fingers crossed the rest of the birds survive my handling or lack there of.


----------



## mtripOH

Southwing said:


> Anyone heard if Tom made shipping ?


Have not heard a word. I am hoping that no news is good news 

Here is a little story to maybe help pass the time. I was called up for jury duty that started the end of September and ran for 3 weeks. I had never been called for jury duty before and was kind of looking forward to see how the great justice system works. Well, 2 1/2 weeks went by and I did not have to report. I had to check every afternoon to see if I needed to report the next day. I got pretty much settled in the fact that I would not have to go at all then one day into the 3rd week I was notified that I had to show up at the court house. My boss was not too happy as we have been quite short handed at work. So off to the court house I go. I had to fill out another questionnaire once I got there. One of the many questions was "What is your favorite hobby?" I listed pigeon racing and thought nothing more about it. I sat nearly the whole day in a room with some 40 people waiting for the next step in this jury process. After 5 hours we had to go up to the court room to be questioned by the by the lawyers representing the parties involved. 2 men were questioned about their hobby of drag racing. No big deal I thought. The lawyer for the plaintiff went on and on with his questions of all different sorts. The end of the day came and we had to go back the next day for more questions. I thought it was kind of interesting seeing first hand how the process works. The lawyer for the plaintiff finished up about an hour into the second day. Then the lawyers for the defendant started their questioning. I was just sitting there kind of like ho-hum when this lawyer questions the 2 guys that are into drag racing. Then he questioned an older woman that is into street rods. The lawyer went on and on then he turns to me and asks about my hobby of pigeon racing. He asked many questions about pigeons and how I got involved and so forth. Then the 3rd lawyer starts with his questions (this was a negligence lawsuit that involved a woman that died, the doctor that treated her in the ER and the hospital where the ER is). The 3rd lawyer really honed in on the 4 of us that have some sort of racing in common. I thought that was odd. So they finished with their questioning and when all was said and done I was selected to sit on the jury. We were sworn in and given instructions and then sent for lunch. I was really excited that I was selected and I would now get to see how the process works. We came back from lunch and were sent to a room off the court where we sat for nearly an hour. The judge walked in and says "Well, folks they have settled and you are free to go." He did field a bunch of questions from us and someone asked why did the last 2 lawyers seem so intent on the 2 drag racers, the street rodder and the pigeon racer. I had wondered this myself and I was surprised to hear the judge's thought on this. Apparently the lawyers were attempting to make an alliance of sorts with us "racers". They figured that we would get together because of our interest in racing and then urge one another on when it would come time to reach a verdict. I thought that was interesting. I was kind of bummed that they settled. It also kind of irritated me as the judge told us that they were close to settling and they were hung up over a final $100,000.00. I think a lot of time and resources were wasted just because they could not settle the final 100K. 
With all that being said, the coolest thing was I got to share with the other jurors about pigeon racing. They all thought it is pretty cool. I even told them about the PT Classic.


----------



## mtripOH

Wow, my long winded story made Tom post!  I just knew that would happen. Where oh where are those Covies? Come on home COV26!!


----------



## mtripOH

WTG Jpsnapdy for getting home first. Congrats to all that have made it in so far. Keeping high hopes that all others make it back in!!


----------



## Josepe

Congrats Jpsnapdy.That bird has really came on in the later races.


----------



## Josepe

Tom,
How about an update again by dark.


----------



## rackerman

*I JUST GOT HOME FROM WORK! TOM, I HOPE YOUR TALKING ABOUT COV33!!! MAN, I HOPE HE GETS HOME SOON!!!!
CONGRATS TO JASPNAPY, BLONGBOY, HAPPY & SOUTHTOWN RACERS.*


Flapdoodle said:


> Sorry everybody, we did ship last night. I don't know what I did wrong. Maybe I gotsome "help" with feeding yesterday. We were in the birthing center yesterday morning. After about 5 hours they sent us home. At about 2:00 I got home and gave the birds 3/4 of a daily ration.
> 
> Long story short we are getting birds just way late.
> 
> When I left home about an hour ago we had 424, 113, 1108, 1442 in that order. We are at least an hour behind the guy I train with so that means there is not a chance of any points in the combine. If that COV bird shows up he wins!!! Keep your fingers crossed the rest of the birds survive my handling or lack there of.


----------



## rackerman

*Your going crazy, just like me
Come on Covies*


mtripOH said:


> Have not heard a word. I am hoping that no news is good news
> 
> Here is a little story to maybe help pass the time. I was called up for jury duty that started the end of September and ran for 3 weeks. I had never been called for jury duty before and was kind of looking forward to see how the great justice system works. Well, 2 1/2 weeks went by and I did not have to report. I had to check every afternoon to see if I needed to report the next day. I got pretty much settled in the fact that I would not have to go at all then one day into the 3rd week I was notified that I had to show up at the court house. My boss was not too happy as we have been quite short handed at work. So off to the court house I go. I had to fill out another questionnaire once I got there. One of the many questions was "What is your favorite hobby?" I listed pigeon racing and thought nothing more about it. I sat nearly the whole day in a room with some 40 people waiting for the next step in this jury process. After 5 hours we had to go up to the court room to be questioned by the by the lawyers representing the parties involved. 2 men were questioned about their hobby of drag racing. No big deal I thought. The lawyer for the plaintiff went on and on with his questions of all different sorts. The end of the day came and we had to go back the next day for more questions. I thought it was kind of interesting seeing first hand how the process works. The lawyer for the plaintiff finished up about an hour into the second day. Then the lawyers for the defendant started their questioning. I was just sitting there kind of like ho-hum when this lawyer questions the 2 guys that are into drag racing. Then he questioned an older woman that is into street rods. The lawyer went on and on then he turns to me and asks about my hobby of pigeon racing. He asked many questions about pigeons and how I got involved and so forth. Then the 3rd lawyer starts with his questions (this was a negligence lawsuit that involved a woman that died, the doctor that treated her in the ER and the hospital where the ER is). The 3rd lawyer really honed in on the 4 of us that have some sort of racing in common. I thought that was odd. So they finished with their questioning and when all was said and done I was selected to sit on the jury. We were sworn in and given instructions and then sent for lunch. I was really excited that I was selected and I would now get to see how the process works. We came back from lunch and were sent to a room off the court where we sat for nearly an hour. The judge walked in and says "Well, folks they have settled and you are free to go." He did field a bunch of questions from us and someone asked why did the last 2 lawyers seem so intent on the 2 drag racers, the street rodder and the pigeon racer. I had wondered this myself and I was surprised to hear the judge's thought on this. Apparently the lawyers were attempting to make an alliance of sorts with us "racers". They figured that we would get together because of our interest in racing and then urge one another on when it would come time to reach a verdict. I thought that was interesting. I was kind of bummed that they settled. It also kind of irritated me as the judge told us that they were close to settling and they were hung up over a final $100,000.00. I think a lot of time and resources were wasted just because they could not settle the final 100K.
> With all that being said, the coolest thing was I got to share with the other jurors about pigeon racing. They all thought it is pretty cool. I even told them about the PT Classic.


----------



## rackerman

*I have everything crossed right now I hope 32 and the rest are back in the morning. I got home from work at 5:15am and I am going crazy, like dad worrying and waiting for his Daughter coming home very late on her 1st date!  Come on, bring them home for daddy *


Flapdoodle said:


> Sorry everybody, we did ship last night. I don't know what I did wrong. Maybe I gotsome "help" with feeding yesterday. We were in the birthing center yesterday morning. After about 5 hours they sent us home. At about 2:00 I got home and gave the birds 3/4 of a daily ration.
> 
> Long story short we are getting birds just way late.
> 
> When I left home about an hour ago we had 424, 113, 1108, 1442 in that order. We are at least an hour behind the guy I train with so that means there is not a chance of any points in the combine. If that COV bird shows up he wins!!! Keep your fingers crossed the rest of the birds survive my handling or lack there of.


----------



## jpsnapdy

Thank you all for the congrats.  and the humour!
Since 424 is far from leading the PTClassic, I really do hope the leader and the others turn up too and collect what they deserve.
As for 424 she deserves a mate that's a tad faster than herself. I would like Tom to keep her for OBs next year where I'm sure she will prove useful especially above 300Mi.
And not least, I want to thank Tom because with all that he had on his hands this past season, he managed it all like a real champ. My heartfelt congrats go to him!
God bless you all!

Jean-Pierre


----------



## Crazy Pete

Congrats jpsnapdy your bird sure came through in the end, and to the rest of the birds that came back. I thought cov 26, 32, and 33 are still here where did cov 24 come from, some one mus be really exited. Hope the rest of the birds made it back ok. Tom how is your wife doing? do we have a new member of the family yet?
Dave


----------



## ace in the hole

Hoping to see an update from Tom so we know who was sent and who is still missing ???


----------



## mtripOH

Crazy Pete said:


> I thought cov 26, 32, and 33 are still here where did cov 24 come from, some one mus be really exited. Hope the rest of the birds made it back ok. Tom how is your wife doing? do we have a new member of the family yet?
> Dave


oooppppsss. My bad  got is all fixed now.


----------



## rackerman

Just got up and have to go to work the night shift again. Boy, I hope Tom can get us updated before I have to leave. I am going to have a real hard time working not knowing nothing

Come on Cov 33 and the rest of yas!!! Lets get your tails home


----------



## Crazy Pete

I'm sure they all came home yesterday and that Tom is with his wife and new baby. He will update later to day when he has a chance to unwind.
Dave


----------



## rackerman

*I sure hope your right Dave*


Crazy Pete said:


> I'm sure they all came home yesterday and that Tom is with his wife and new baby. He will update later to day when he has a chance to unwind.
> Dave


----------



## mtripOH

I feel odd asking this but here goes. I am accompanying my husband to vote on the UAW contract and then we have a clambake to attend. With that being said, I will not be here for any updates that might come in. Can someone please text me when and if any updates come in? It doesn't need to be anything elaborate just let me know who has made it back. I do appreciate it very much  If you are willing to do this, please send me a PM and I will send you my number. Thanks in advance.


----------



## rackerman

*I would be happy to update you, but I have to go to work tonight and can only check back on my lunch hour. I am a supervisor at work with PC access, but can only check on my lunch hour. I do hope all the birds return so we can wind this thing up*


mtripOH said:


> I feel odd asking this but here goes. I am accompanying my husband to vote on the UAW contract and then we have a clambake to attend. With that being said, I will not be here for any updates that might come in. Can someone please text me when and if any updates come in? It doesn't need to be anything elaborate just let me know who has made it back. I do appreciate it very much  If you are willing to do this, please send me a PM and I will send you my number. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Gnuretiree

Any news? How are the returns? How are the new additions?

Hugh


----------



## conditionfreak

Somebody better be having a baby. 

I'm thinking a great middle name for a boy or a girl would be "COVington". (IF COV-33 wins this thing)

Ha Ha

My personal favorite would be Thomas Covington Brasher. But I'm a little biased.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

He might weigh 10.06 lbs and be born at 1:05pm you never know.


----------



## Flapdoodle

Sorry for no news. 

Trying to figure out what I did wrong so I can add it to my list for the season. I think I created 19 puddle jumpers. I keep the birds on restricted feed. Thursday nights I typically give them all they want with 3/4 their daily ration for the longer races in YB. 

My method Thursday nights is to put food in he hoppers and let them go to town... Thursday after dark or Friday before light I pull the feed. With everything going on Friday AM i failed to pull the feed. On top of that I gave them the 3/4 ration. They probably received 1 1/2 times or more of their daily ration the day of shipping and were released Saturday AM still full stopping at every lake between here and there for a drink and to relax. The last bird clocked was 40 minutes ago and they are trickling in. I updated the list... I hope they keep trickling in. Sorry for yet another blunder.

Still no baby just a few kids with the flu....


----------



## rackerman

*Do we have a winned I'll check back at lunch time.*


Flapdoodle said:


> Sorry for no news.
> 
> Trying to figure out what I did wrong so I can add it to my list for the season. I think I created 19 puddle jumpers. I keep the birds on restricted feed. Thursday nights I typically give them all they want with 3/4 their daily ration for the longer races in YB.
> 
> My method Thursday nights is to put food in he hoppers and let them go to town... Thursday after dark or Friday before light I pull the feed. With everything going on Friday AM i failed to pull the feed. On top of that I gave them the 3/4 ration. They probably received 1 1/2 times or more of their daily ration the day of shipping and were released Saturday AM still full stopping at every lake between here and there for a drink and to relax. The last bird clocked was 40 minutes ago and they are trickling in. I updated the list... I hope they keep trickling in. Sorry for yet another blunder.
> 
> Still no baby just a few kids with the flu....


----------



## Crazy Pete

You say a blunder I say family comes first, not having any birds left that's easy for me to say. Well at least 2 of the 3 cov birds came home. to bad they don't count as 300 mi is only a 1 day race. 
Dave


----------



## Josepe

The green are still missing then? Yea I sure hope they keep trickling in.Updating as often as possible now would be appreciated.


----------



## mtripOH

I take it the green means they are MIA?  Come on COV26 get your tail home! Congrats to all that have made it back so far. And, may all others make it home safely and soon.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Looks like Cov 33 is home. Should have won this thing.


----------



## rackerman

Its my lunch time, I only have about 20 minutes. I looked at the list and it looks to me like Cov32 & Cov33 are back, am I seeing that right??


----------



## rackerman

Thanks for the reply. I sure hope we won, but Tom has not said it yet. The list shows 32 is back too, unless I am reading it wrong?? An update would be nice!!!!!


hillfamilyloft said:


> Looks like Cov 33 is home. Should have won this thing.


----------



## rackerman

Flapdoodle said:


> Sorry everybody, we did ship last night. I don't know what I did wrong. Maybe I gotsome "help" with feeding yesterday. We were in the birthing center yesterday morning. After about 5 hours they sent us home. At about 2:00 I got home and gave the birds 3/4 of a daily ration.
> 
> Long story short we are getting birds just way late.
> 
> When I left home about an hour ago we had 424, 113, 1108, 1442 in that order. We are at least an hour behind the guy I train with so that means there is not a chance of any points in the combine.* If that COV bird shows up he wins!!! *Keep your fingers crossed the rest of the birds survive my handling or lack there of.


So, did we win


----------



## Crazy Pete

On the last point sheet that I saw 33 had enough points to beat 424 even with it coming in first. As soon as Tom gives 33 2 thumbs up 33 should be due some peanuts.
Dave


----------



## Flapdoodle

Flapdoodle said:


> Here are the current point standings:
> 
> HIGHT POINTS
> 
> With the top 20 birds in the combine getting between 100-175 points a race it is really up in the air at this point. If we can get a few to score well in the combine this thing will be pretty close. It might be a flawed system but it is the system.
> 
> The top birds will all be in the A race.


Knock off is tomorrow at 6:00 pm. With how far back they are I doubt we will score points... However GFTG 113 is 32 points back and in second place... Small chance it picked up some points. Before we call it we should wait until knock off


----------



## Flapdoodle

I am not home. I will update any new birds tonight when I get back.


----------



## Crazy Pete

I don't think you made a blunder at all 34698 was 1 1/2 hrs ahead of the PT birds. I think we just need to send better birds. 
Dave


----------



## Southwing

So do we know who is going to host the 2012 PTC ?


----------



## Thunderbird Racing

Southwing said:


> So do we know who is going to host the 2012 PTC ?


 conditionfreak has stepped up.


----------



## Josepe

Crazy Pete,
You don't call feeding birds 1 1/2 times their ration on shipping day a blunder?? Better birds?? You better look at the results again of some of the top birds up to this race.How far and fast could you run on a full gut of pasta?


----------



## Crazy Pete

I'm just saying, one of Tom's strays had the same feeding as the PT birds and kicked butt. So yes send better birds. Full gut of pasta or an empty gut I couldn't run 50 ft.
Dave


----------



## rackerman

*


All I knoe is I am going nuts. Check back at 5:30in the morning I guess*


Crazy Pete said:


> On the last point sheet that I saw 33 had enough points to beat 424 even with it coming in first. As soon as Tom gives 33 2 thumbs up 33 should be due some peanuts.
> Dave


----------



## Thunderbird Racing

Crazy Pete said:


> Full gut of pasta or an empty gut I couldn't run 50 ft.
> Dave


Is that all...me too...lol


----------



## Josepe

It's not pasta you're full of that's for sure.


----------



## Crazy Pete

rackerman don't go any more nuts, lol I would be willing to bet 33 is top bird.
Dave


----------



## Crazy Pete

Josepe said:


> It's not pasta you're full of that's for sure.


Next time put a bird you bred in the competition and see if you can do better. Next yr I wont send first time mating, I will send my best Fabry.
Dave


----------



## kbraden

Josepe said:


> It's not pasta you're full of that's for sure.


Bahhhaaaa! 
Sorry... That just made me laugh!


----------



## Crazy Pete

I thought it was funny also, If he is trying to make me mad it will not work. Never sweat the petty things.
Dave


----------



## Josepe

Don't think I could breed any better then what Randy sent for me.And I wasn't trying to make you mad.Just stating my opinion.And talking about Randy,just send that wager I won from you, in my name to Randy's wife's cancer fund.


----------



## Crazy Pete

Josepe said:


> Don't think I could breed any better then what Randy sent for me.And I wasn't trying to make you mad.Just stating my opinion.And talking about Randy,just send that wager I won from you, in my name to Randy's wife's cancer fund.



I will put in my donation Monday and add our wager to it. I'm glad you want to do it that way, I think its a great thing Randy does, a lot of $$ goes to fight cancer, and he gives people some damn fine birds. I just wish he would send a young bird my way.
Dave


----------



## Thunderbird Racing

I curious, for those of you that didn't breed the birds in this race that you cheered on. What is there to be so proud of? Yeah I understand you did well with a bird bred for you. Really though besides all the cheering on, what sense of accomplishment do you have here?


----------



## conditionfreak

The same as cheering for the Steelers, 49ers or Lakers. It is your team and it won. You didn't breed any of the team members, nor train them, nor even meet them. But they are your team and you won. You have bragging rights is the way I see it.

The bird (COV-33) belongs to rackerman. It is his bird. If it is the winner, then rackerman is the winner.

How is it any different from buying a pair from Ganus and breeding them? You didn't breed the parents. You didn't make the pairing. You didn't contribute anything except feed and water them. Maybe worm them, and ship them to a one loft race. You didn't develop that "line".

I bred COV-33 from a pair given to me by a friend. I did nothing more than keep them a pair and let them do what they do well. Make babies. Should I have bragging rights? Yes, a little. Should the friend that gave me the parent pair have bragging rights? Yes, a little. Should rackerman have bragging rights? Yes. It is his bird. Obviously a bird more suited to shorter races. But it is a survivor the the entire season and there are many that are not there. It should be noted that #33's nest mate #32 is also a survivor of a tough series. There must be something to those genes. Are there any other nest mates still in the loft at Tom's? I don't know.

Let's not take away form those bird owners whose entries did well, even though they did not breed them. Without their paying shipping charges and entering the birds, those birds would not have been in the contest in the first place.

I will hold off on congratulating rackerman until it is official, but I like COV-33's chances of being the champ.

And yes, overfeeding the birds prior to a race can hurt their performance. But it can help bring them home on a tough day also. Seems this was a not so tough day, so it probably hurt them. COV-33 came in early the next morning. It probably was in no rush to get home and just having fun exploring. No reason to hurry home when it is a beautiful day and your belly is full.

It's not like he is paired up and has some good looking hen waiting to rub his back. (at least I don't THINK he does) 

I'm used to having to wait a long time for race results. But I bet some here are not.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Crazy Pete said:


> I will put in my donation Monday and add our wager to it. I'm glad you want to do it that way, I think its a great thing Randy does, a lot of $$ goes to fight cancer, and he gives people some damn fine birds. I just wish he would send a young bird my way.
> Dave


The peds for the birds in the auction should be up in the next day or so. I am also working on a video so you can see the birds. Want to thank you soo much for your generousity. I am building a flyrod also for the auction. Anyone that donates will have their name in the raffle. I will have four pairs and young bird kit for next year in the auction. Thanks again. 

Josepe
If 1006 does not make it home from this one. I have his brother with your name on him. Send me shipping and I will put him with a nice hen for you. If he makes it back I will shoot you a hen to breed with her so you can win this thing next year. 

Randy


----------



## hillfamilyloft

That is breed with him. The hen hen thing does not fill eggs. 1006 may have dropped the 9th in the basket or on the way home. He might get home in a day or two.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Crazy Pete said:


> I will put in my donation Monday and add our wager to it. I'm glad you want to do it that way, I think its a great thing Randy does, a lot of $$ goes to fight cancer, and he gives people some damn fine birds. I just wish he would send a young bird my way.
> Dave


My wife is the one that is doing all the work. She put in 26 miles in training this weekend and sold 100 cinn rolls.


----------



## Crazy Pete

hillfamilyloft said:


> My wife is the one that is doing all the work. She put in 26 miles in training this weekend and sold 100 cinn rolls.


Yes she is, you better send her in for a pedicure when she gets home.
Dave


----------



## Flapdoodle

Crazy Pete said:


> rackerman don't go any more nuts, lol I would be willing to bet 33 is top bird.
> Dave


I would not take that bet. Pretty sure COV 33 has this wrapped up. We should know tonight at least the club results. The chance of scoring is low being how late we were. 



Crazy Pete said:


> I don't think you made a blunder at all 34698 was 1 1/2 hrs ahead of the PT birds. I think we just need to send better birds.
> Dave


34698 was not a day bird he was 24 hrs behind 

It was a blunder, I definitely had the birds in the loft to get it done any deficiencies were on my end.


----------



## Flapdoodle

No new birds last night other then Happy's bird that is three weeks late... There is still hope for birds that have gone MIA. 

If more are going to come they should do it this morning.


----------



## rackerman

*Thanks Dave!! I really feel that 33 won, but till Tom says so, then I will be on pins and neddles!! I am so happy both Cov birds of mine returned and I know the rest will make it back!!!
I feel bad for Tom, he has a whole lot on his plate at home and I feel he did a great job for all he is going through. 
REMEMBER EVERYONE, he started this over 9 months ago and he did not know he would be having a baby at that time. So, I do understand all Tom has been going through! 
Now, all I want is to see the winner crowned I'm going nuts*


Crazy Pete said:


> rackerman don't go any more nuts, lol I would be willing to bet 33 is top bird.
> Dave


----------



## rackerman

Tom, I am really confused now Here is a part of your posting you made on Saturday.

When I left home about an hour ago we had 424, 113, 1108, 1442 in that order. We are at least an hour behind the guy I train with so that means there is not a chance of any points in the combine. "If that COV bird shows up he wins"!!!

So, what am I missing here?? Looks to me like I won


----------



## mtripOH

Thunderbird Racing said:


> I curious, for those of you that didn't breed the birds in this race that you cheered on. What is there to be so proud of? Yeah I understand you did well with a bird bred for you. Really though besides all the cheering on, what sense of accomplishment do you have here?





conditionfreak said:


> The same as cheering for the Steelers, 49ers or Lakers. It is your team and it won. You didn't breed any of the team members, nor train them, nor even meet them. But they are your team and you won. You have bragging rights is the way I see it.
> 
> How is it any different from buying a pair from Ganus and breeding them? You didn't breed the parents. You didn't make the pairing. You didn't contribute anything except feed and water them. Maybe worm them, and ship them to a one loft race. You didn't develop that "line".
> 
> Let's not take away form those bird owners whose entries did well, even though they did not breed them. Without their paying shipping charges and entering the birds, those birds would not have been in the contest in the first place.


Wow! I was trying to come up with a civil reply and Walt said it all beautifully. Don't know if y'all know about my son's circumstance or not. Josiah as a disability (nearly like Aspergers) and he became interested in pigeons and racing. We thought that pigeon keeping would be a good "outlet" for Josiah and his pigeons have now become a family hobby. Josiah has done most of the research and helped build the lofts. Some of his breeders were given to him by a great guy from PA and others he purchased with his own money. He worked hard caring for and pairing up his birds. He was so excited when we discussed about entering the PT race. Imagine his grief when his birds did not produce. I posted a message on this thread stating that we were pulling out because we had nothing to send. Walt stepped up to the plate and offered 2 birds to Josiah. For that I am grateful and yes I have been cheering on those birds that did not actually come from Triple T Lofts. No, it is not the same as sending pigeons that came from our loft. However Walt gifted these birds to Josiah and my son is now the owner of the birds (hoping that they both show up, one has been MIA for a long time, however) so why would we not cheer them on? Come on over on a Sunday and watch the Browns with us...I do not know a single man on that team..but boy do I ever cheer each and every one of those guys on!!


----------



## Josepe

Thanks Randy,but 1006 is the one who flew consistently well in 6 races on a tough coarse and proved himself.
I cannot beleive something like this could happen in the last race of the series.Hopefully he'll show up soon.I know Whenever he does show up I want him back.


----------



## Thunderbird Racing

mtripOH said:


> Wow! I was trying to come up with a civil reply and Walt said it all beautifully. Don't know if y'all know about my son's circumstance or not. Josiah as a disability (nearly like Aspergers) and he became interested in pigeons and racing. We thought that pigeon keeping would be a good "outlet" for Josiah and his pigeons have now become a family hobby. Josiah has done most of the research and helped build the lofts. Some of his breeders were given to him by a great guy from PA and others he purchased with his own money. He worked hard caring for and pairing up his birds. He was so excited when we discussed about entering the PT race. Imagine his grief when his birds did not produce. I posted a message on this thread stating that we were pulling out because we had nothing to send. Walt stepped up to the plate and offered 2 birds to Josiah. For that I am grateful and yes I have been cheering on those birds that did not actually come from Triple T Lofts. No, it is not the same as sending pigeons that came from our loft. However Walt gifted these birds to Josiah and my son is now the owner of the birds (hoping that they both show up, one has been MIA for a long time, however) so why would we not cheer them on? Come on over on a Sunday and watch the Browns with us...I do not know a single man on that team..but boy do I ever cheer each and every one of those guys on!!


I think you guys are taking my question wrong. I am not attacking, nor trying to take away from the victory.


----------



## conditionfreak

rackerman said:


> Tom, I am really confused now Here is a part of your posting you made on Saturday.
> 
> When I left home about an hour ago we had 424, 113, 1108, 1442 in that order. We are at least an hour behind the guy I train with so that means there is not a chance of any points in the combine. "If that COV bird shows up he wins"!!!
> 
> So, what am I missing here?? Looks to me like I won


Because it ain't over until it is over. You just don't know until you know.


----------



## rackerman

Walt, clean your inbox up, its full


----------



## rackerman

Today is our Wedding Anniversary, be cool gift to hear today we won this thing I may be a little under the weather by the time Tom annouces........HEHEHE


----------



## jpsnapdy

Crazy Pete said:


> On the last point sheet that I saw 33 had enough points to beat 424 even with it coming in first. As soon as Tom gives 33 2 thumbs up 33 should be due some peanuts.
> Dave


Yeah. How can 33 not win this? 424 must still be way down the sheet. Probbly no combine points at all this time.


----------



## rackerman

*I am not offended by your comment, but I even rooted for your birds and everyone else's bird. I entered and my birds did not lay eggs in time and Walt give me an offer. I took it, just because my birds did'nt produce in time. That's the only reason I took Walts offer, he is a great sportsman!!! Do I wish I could have entered my birds, YES!!! I have some good birds here and was not happy they did not produce, so Walt offered me and I took it. Did I want to win this race, YES!!! But, it did not matter if I won, it matter that I entered however I could and whoever won I would be a good sport and congat them.. I have rooted for EVERY bird in this, EVEN YOURS!!! Right now I understand your frustrations, but you lost and now, you are typing out of losing. Come on man!! Give us a break!!! Jousha is a junior member, how do you think you are making him feel????? We are to be supporting this sport and get people interested so it can live. I am not mad at you at all and I understand your frustations, but come on man, think about it!!!
I hope I am not offending you and thats not why I am posting, wake up and smell the coffee!! Please do not be offend, just saying whats on my mind. *


Thunderbird Racing said:


> I think you guys are taking my question wrong. I am not attacking, nor trying to take away from the victory. WE NEED JUNIOR MEMBER INTEREST AND WE ARE SUPPOSE TO HELP AND SUPPORT THEM!! PLEASE DO NOT BE OFFENDED, PLEASE.
> Oh, I don't have a club close enough to me to race and I am trying my hardest to get on here in my area.
> So watchout, Cov offspring next year


----------



## conditionfreak

I'll say one thing that is obvious. There was not a bigger cheerleader for this event than rackerman. At a certain point, he even confided in a PM to me that he hoped COV-26 (not his bird) would win over his entries.

rackerman has indeed rooted for all of the birds to return home and to do well. He of course rooted for his birds to win. Who would not? rackerman has been a true spirit of sportsmanship all the way through this event and I am glad and proud to have helped him win this thing (IF he has won, which I can't see him not doing so). I can't wait to beat him next year.

Of course it didn't hurt his enthusiam to have started out the season on top with a 1st, 4th, 1st and 1st. 

Word of caution rackerman. Do you really think I would have given you my BEST? You and the rest are only competing for 3rd place next year. It is all you can hope for at this point. First and second are locked up in two birds that have not even been layed yet. One is going to be a solid black and the other most likely a red check. It is a done deal! Sorry. 


Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha


----------



## conditionfreak

I'd like to congratulate Happy, jpsnapdy and Josepe. You have some good birds there.

And who knows what "ace in the hole's" GFTG-105 could have done in this final race. Sorry it missed it.

Do we really only have a total of 9 birds left from the 80+ we started out with?


----------



## conditionfreak

kbraden said:


> I beg to differ. Not once did you say anything to me, during training when my bird came in first on one toss, or when it slowly climbed the racing ladder steadily from 13th place up to 3rd, then after that it got lost unfortunately. But I didn't care, I had personal PM's going on with quite a few of you, and we cheered each other on behind the scenes, basically because you have taken over this forum with your almost hourly "praise" for your own birds. But that too is ok to be proud of your bird, and I say "your" bird because it is in your name regardless of how you came upon it. Just you are becoming quite annoying, kind of like one of those people who just likes to hear themselves speak. And for the record, if you remember, I too offered you a bird in your time of need, you turned me down. The bird I offered you is currently flying 52mph, with a nice gathering of AU points, more than your COV has


I suggest that you send a sibling of that bird to the next PT Classic. Third place is a possibility.


----------



## rackerman

*Walt, PM me your Phone #!! Your inbox is FULL!!*


conditionfreak said:


> I suggest that you send a sibling of that bird to the next PT Classic. Third place is a possibility.


----------



## rackerman

*I love the chatter! OHH, CONGRATS!*


kbraden said:


> I beg to differ. Not once did you say anything to me, during training when my bird came in first on one toss, or when it slowly climbed the racing ladder steadily from 13th place up to 3rd, then after that it got lost unfortunately. But I didn't care, I had personal PM's going on with quite a few of you, and we cheered each other on behind the scenes, basically because you have taken over this forum with your almost hourly "praise" for your own birds. But that too is ok to be proud of your bird, and I say "your" bird because it is in your name regardless of how you came upon it. Just you are becoming quite annoying, kind of like one of those people who just likes to hear themselves speak. And for the record, if you remember, I too offered you a bird in your time of need, you turned me down. The bird I offered you is currently flying 52mph, with a nice gathering of AU points, more than your COV has


----------



## rackerman

*Sorry I did not post, every post> Not mad at all! Were all Pigeon people with the same love*


kbraden said:


> I beg to differ. Not once did you say anything to me, during training when my bird came in first on one toss, or when it slowly climbed the racing ladder steadily from 13th place up to 3rd, then after that it got lost unfortunately. But I didn't care, I had personal PM's going on with quite a few of you, and we cheered each other on behind the scenes, basically because you have taken over this forum with your almost hourly "praise" for your own birds. But that too is ok to be proud of your bird, and I say "your" bird because it is in your name regardless of how you came upon it. Just you are becoming quite annoying, kind of like one of those people who just likes to hear themselves speak. And for the record, if you remember, I too offered you a bird in your time of need, you turned me down. The bird I offered you is currently flying 52mph, with a nice gathering of AU points, more than your COV has


----------



## rackerman

I was in this to win, but it didn't matter to me if I did, or didn't. This is all for fun, no money! I wish I could have bread and enter my own birds!! I did root for every bird and even prayed for a safe return, so why am I bad??? I haven't won yet! I feel Happy had birds equal to the Cov birds and rooted for him. We are all friends with the same love!! All I ask is to get that junior member in to this. We all know the sport is dying, it's up to all us to keep our love growing and we need that junior!! 
I wish each and every one the best! Kbraden, maybe you should go re-read my postings???


----------



## bbcdon

When are the results going to be posted?


----------



## bbcdon

On the list, in the column to the right of the race # 8 column, what are the numbers which resemble hour, minute, & seconds about?


----------



## Crazy Pete

bbcdon said:


> On the list, in the column to the right of the race # 8 column, what are the numbers which resemble hour, minute, & seconds about?


If we new what time they were let up we would know what time they got home. First 4 were day birds, last 4 were not.
Dave


----------



## mtripOH

Speechless in regards to some of the things being said here.  
All I want is some good news from Tom.


----------



## Josepe

Yea waiting for an Update also.


----------



## rpalmer

*2 subjects. One post.*

Wow. Congrats to all the birds who survived. This thread has turned into something most of the posters should be ashamed of. Be a gracious loser. Be a gracious winner. 

I can see it now for 2012. Wha-wha-wha... I reserved a perch before I saw that it was going to be an honest on loft race. Wha- wha-wha. 

I for one did not reserve a perch for 2012 because I had no idea how the race was to be run. 

And such things matter to me. If 2013 is a one loft race I might just see you then. But I will never reserve a perch for a futurity race without knowing it's rules or handler. It seems that I'm in the minority on this.


----------



## kbraden

Well, "some of you" will be happy to hear that I had spots reserved for 2012. I pulled out of it a few weeks ago, just because the "pasta" (as Josepe calls it ) gets too thick at times on here, and I have a hard time keeping my mouth shut. I don't beat around the bush & sugar coat things I have to say, much easier to just let it all out, and watch out if you are in the line of fire  
I didn't win any bragging rights, which I didn't expect to anyways. I sent new "tester birds", to see what modifications I need to do to my breeding program. The PT race is ideal for that purpose, and my mission was accomplished. Met some nice people on here too while it was going on 

I do agree tho, I wish mtripOH's bird would show back up, so Josiah doesn't get discouraged so early into the sport. But Happy's bird showed up after what 3 weeks? So there is always the hope


----------



## mtripOH

kbraden said:


> I do agree tho, I wish mtripOH's bird would show back up, so Josiah doesn't get discouraged so early into the sport. But Happy's bird showed up after what 3 weeks? So there is always the hope


Thank you. We are holding our breath here. Hoping that all the birds return. These races have been real tough and I think that all that make it back are winners...just some made it back quicker than others.


----------



## luckyloft

Well I haven't said much this year about the race mostly because my bird did nothing,but I did think things got a little out of hand this year.I enjoyed last year much better.From the comlpaining about not getting updates from Tom to the comments that have came out lately its started to sound like my old combine.Thanks Tom for all the hard work!I will be skipping next years race, to much griping and finger pointing. Jeff


----------



## First To Hatch

mtrip OH, I had two birds this year show up after a race 3 weeks late.


----------



## First To Hatch

I'm not upset that I didn't win, but that is probably because the siblings of my lost birds did well for me here. Josepe sent two to the PT race and two to me. The sibling to the grizzle I lost early on is a diploma winner here, and the sibling to the BB would of been a diploma winner if she would of trapped in her first race and not sat out there for 30 minutes, but then she got lost in her second race along with 2 other diploma birds . I made a good friend out of Josepe and I still owe him the print outs of the grizzles results lol! But I hope to trade or get another pair of young from him next year!


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Congrats to whoever won. And to the birds who made it to the end. I'm too lazy to backtrack and see what I've missed. It sounds like I missed some negative things.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Look on the bright side. All the poop talk makes for better competition next year. Guys might just send their best next year. I am sure the excuses and trash talk will fly next year just like it did this year. That is what makes this stuff fun. Thinking already what I am going to send next year. No excuses, I think the best bird won this year. That is why when the best bird is not yours you work harder next year to get a bird that can compete. You learn from it and move on. You should learn more from the seconds and thirds than from the wins. Excuses just give you a reason to suck. The only birds I breed from are those that produce top birds. Otherwise you are wasting your time.


----------



## Josepe

Howboutcha Tom?


----------



## Flapdoodle

*Hats off to our winner COV 33!!*

I don't have the combine results yet but being that we are about two hours off from the first bird in the club I think we are pretty safe in declaring the winner.

Congrats to rackerman!!

Josepe, Josiah, Kathy and others I know you really want your bird or birds back. I will keep an eye out for them. We only had one new bird trap in today. 

For those that still have birds that survived the course and the handling let me know what you would like to do via PM. I would like to ship birds back Monday the 24th. I am also fine with keeping any birds here. They will all be going to the guy we tossed with a few times to breed from and we will split the babies he will keep a round I will keep a round.


----------



## Flapdoodle

I am really excited for this to be done and for taking a break from pigeons and the forum in general. Someone said they had a lot more fun with this last year. I 100% agree. I am sure I am a large part of the frustration surrounding this event this year and I apologize for that. To look on the bright side I have set the bar very low for Walt next year. I am sure he will do great.


----------



## conditionfreak

Flapdoodle, we know your heart was not in it this year. You did it last year and you also had a lot of things going on in your life at the same time. There are only 24 hours in a day.

You did fine. Honestly not as good as last year, but a good job nonetheless. Last year you did an A+ job. I would give you an A- this year.  It is harder to keep interested in after the first time. The first kiss is always the best....er, ah, I mean....I'm digressing.  This event would not even exist if not for you initiating it. It has been fun for many and a bummer for many. But that is the game of pigeon racing.

If I do as well as you, then I will be satisfied. Thank you again.


*CONGRATULATIONS TO RACKERMAN AND COV-33. The 2011 Pigeon Talk Classic WINNER!*


----------



## Thunderbird Racing

Congrats to the Winner!

I wanted to clear something up and say that some of you folks took my comment totally wrong. I was in no way dogging on the kid, nor anyone else. I was just curious what you felt YOU had accomplished, or learned, in this competition. Nothing more. I was looking for a reflection not a justification.


----------



## mtripOH

*Super big congrats to Rackerman and COV33!! You guys did it! (what a great anniversary gift to boot!!) Too all others that made it to the end you also deserve a pat on the back. In my eyes all that made it back home deserve a future life of luxury 
Tom, thanks for hosting the PT Classic. You did your best with all that has been going on. You deserve a break and some time for yourself. I hope that you will be in the race next year and get to enjoy it the way that most of us enjoyed it this year.*


----------



## Gnuretiree

Congratulations on a proven winner over a tough season. Lots of nice birds in the group. 

Hugh


----------



## Josepe

Congrats to the winner.


----------



## Josepe

Yea Tom keep a eye out for 1006.He came home good in every race including 3rd in the last 300 so I can't see him not coming in eventually.
And this being officially the last race I think it would be good to post a printout from your clock for everyone to see like you did before.


----------



## Southwing

Thanks Tom for hosting the PTC it's a big under taking and would like to thank you for a Job Well Done. Many birds lot of different people with opinions. But I think you did a Great Job! 

Congrates Rackman! for being the Winner of the PTC, Great Bird.

Congrates to everyone that participated in the race this year!

The PTC for me this year was the only racing I got to do because of a 1000 mile move in June. Gave most of my YB away and a close friend is holding my breeders till i can find a place to race from, which may not be much longer. Watching and waiting for months excited for the racing to start, my bird stayed in the races for around the 4th race, then went mia then showed up week before the last race. Wonder what beach he was at  Anyway had fun! 

Thanks Tom


----------



## bbcdon

Congratulations!!!


----------



## ace in the hole

Congratulations to COV 33, *rackerman* and *conditionfreak* as breeder and a great guy. There are many who use this forum but only a hand full as giving as Walt.

Tom, Thanks for giving us the PT Classic. I want you to know I put you in that hand full of people who have given a lot to this forum. Everything may not have worked out this year as well as some had hoped including you, but I know you did your best and gave up a lot of your time to make this happen for us. 

GFTG 105 is going to *Josepe*. We are hoping LL 1006 makes it back so he can breed them together for next years PT Classic young birds.

At this point I am waiting for the posting of the overall placements of our top birds this year. I have prizes to send out to our 2nd and 3rd place birds/owners.

I would also like to send out a big CONGRATS to *Happy* for sending such consistant birds and with the return of his missing bird one of the few to have both birds left at the end with such a tuff racing course. *Hillfamilyloft *for producing LL 1006 & GFTG 105. Randy is without a doubt one of the few who has given a lot to this forum and it's members. Just ask *Josepe* .


----------



## kbraden

Flapdoodle said:


> I don't have the combine results yet but being that we are about two hours off from the first bird in the club I think we are pretty safe in declaring the winner.
> 
> Congrats to rackerman!!
> 
> Josepe, Josiah, Kathy and others I know you really want your bird or birds back. I will keep an eye out for them. We only had one new bird trap in today.
> 
> For those that still have birds that survived the course and the handling let me know what you would like to do via PM. I would like to ship birds back Monday the 24th. I am also fine with keeping any birds here. They will all be going to the guy we tossed with a few times to breed from and we will split the babies he will keep a round I will keep a round.



Thanks Tom , maybe he'll make it back in time for Christmas LOL


----------



## Crazy Pete

Tom with the wife expecting you had to be a man of many faces, loft builder, manager, and even soccer mom and I'm sure there is a lot I left out. I think you did a good job no mater how some others may think. Congrats to the winner those cov birds kicked butt.
Dave


----------



## kalapati

Flapdoodle said:


> I am really excited for this to be done and for taking a break from pigeons and the forum in general. Someone said they had a lot more fun with this last year. I 100% agree. I am sure I am a large part of the frustration surrounding this event this year and I apologize for that. To look on the bright side I have set the bar very low for Walt next year. I am sure he will do great.



You did a great job Tom. I really appreciate all the time, money and effort you gave to this year's races. 

Congrats to all winners! 


kalapati
San Diego

http://blubarloft.dyndns.biz:81/Jview.htm


----------



## Josepe

Congrats to all the birds that survived and flew well,at one time and all the way through.A Huge thanks and Much gratitude to Randy for breeding and sending 1006 for me,Proof of his breeding program for sure,and along with GFTG 105 also,which goes a Big Thanks to Ace for the gracious offer of sending her to me.Will still be hoping 1006 returns so I can pair them for some awsome babies next year.Randy and Ace's breeding collaboration is a Winner for sure.
And congrats to Walt for breeding such good flying consistent birds.


----------



## jpsnapdy

Thunderbird Racing said:


> I curious, for those of you that didn't breed the birds in this race that you cheered on. What is there to be so proud of? Yeah I understand you did well with a bird bred for you. Really though besides all the cheering on, what sense of accomplishment do you have here?


If you are thinking about me and 424, I picked 2 out of 5 birds based on Tom's video. You should try and pick the winner of the longest race for 2012.
You can also go through the posts and read my comments on that bird through the 177 pages (as of today) of this thread. Horses for courses, OF COURSE! 
I never meant to brag but this does it!
Sorry guys!


----------



## Thunderbird Racing

jpsnapdy said:


> If you are thinking about me and 424, I picked 2 out of 5 birds based on Tom's video. You should try and pick the winner of the longest race for 2012.
> You can also go through the posts and read my comments on that bird through the 177 pages (as of today) of this thread. Horses for courses, OF COURSE!
> I never meant to brag but this does it!
> Sorry guys!


good job. 

This is what I was looking for, reflection, what you got out of this race.


----------



## jpsnapdy

conditionfreak said:


> I'd like to congratulate Happy, jpsnapdy and Josepe. You have some good birds there.
> 
> And who knows what "ace in the hole's" GFTG-105 could have done in this final race. Sorry it missed it.
> 
> Do we really only have a total of 9 birds left from the 80+ we started out with?


Thanks Walt and *big Congrats *to you for breeding the winner. Maybe I'll join the fun in 2013.
As for me, I'm content that 424 was a good choice.


----------



## rackerman

*WOW, It's Over!! Thank You All For The Congrats! I Still Can't Believe It! There Sure Were Some Good Birds That Had Me Worried These Last Few Races.
I Want To Thank Tom For The Great Job Is Has Done, Especially For All Thats Going On In His Life Right Now. My Hat Also Goes Out To Walt For Raising Cov33 And Cov32 For Me. I Would Have Never Been In This If It Weren't For Walt. We Have Pm'd Each Other Through This Whole Thing And I Made A Great Friend!! He Is A True Sportsman!! I Can Not Take All The Bragging Rights And Will Share The Bragging Rights With Walt!!
I Am Not Upset With Anyone, I Know There Was Some Chatter Going On And There Always Will Be In Any Race.
I Can't Wait Till Next Years Race Now. I Am Going To Try To Raise Some Off Spring From The Cov Birds To Send, That's My Plan For Now, But You Never Know What Will Happen.
Right Now All I Want Is To See Cov26 And The Others Return!!!
Thanks Again Everyone!!! Sure Was A Tough Race.
Russ

*


----------



## jpsnapdy

conditionfreak said:


> Pirated from conditionfreak:
> 
> FLAPDOODLE
> 
> This event would not even exist if not for you initiating it. It has been fun for many and a bummer for many. But that is the game of pigeon racing.
> 
> ... Thank you again.
> 
> 
> &
> *CONGRATULATIONS TO RACKERMAN AND COV-33. The 2011 Pigeon Talk Classic WINNER!*


Flap:
You're the man! Had it been me, I could not have managed this with so many things going on...

You really deserve to take a break from pigeons! ...... and us.


----------



## jpsnapdy

Josepe said:


> Congrats to the winner.


*Again Congrats Rackerman!!!*


----------



## rackerman

Cov 33 now has a name "Blue Bomber".


----------



## rackerman

Tom, I sent you a PM on making arrangements for shipping Blue Bomber and 32 back to me, did you get it??


----------



## Crazy Pete

Some one has 24 on the brain. lol
Dave


----------



## conditionfreak

Crazy Pete said:


> Some one has 24 on the brain. lol
> Dave


Ha Ha. Yep. COV-24 does exist. But she became MIA from my races a long time ago. Glad I did not send her tot he PT Clasic.

mtripoh's bird is COV-26. Who I have reason to believe, is now safe in Flapdoodles loft. I have been told that it came home from the last race, even though it does not state so on the official "list" yet.

Another survivor.  Makes me happy. I really don't care if any of my birds win races (well, winning IS nice). I just want them to come home. I race homing pigeons that race. Racing well and homing well is great. But homing well is the most important thing. Imagine if they raced well, but homed badly. What good would they be for their original intent of carrying messages? It would do me no good if they beat all of your birds to your loft. They need to come home to my loft.


----------



## Happy

*Blue Bomber*

Rackerman, Congrads on Winning the PT 2011. You have been a lot of fun on this whole 7 Races. You are a Super Opponent  I will have to fine tune a little for next yr. for that Ohio Weather at Conditionfreaks!! 1108 did what she was supposed to do. Wished I could put her on my Old Bird team. That is where my Love is... She has many siblings on my team now, so she will go in the stock loft of course with her Sire,Dam, two other sisters, & one brother... 
Thanks to all that gave me good thoughts on my birds in this PT Classic.
Happy


----------



## rackerman

*Thank you Happy!! I had lots of fun and you sure had me worried these last few races Your a great sport and I really enjoyed racing with you!
I hope to see you in the 3rd annual. That one will be hard for me to win, there is going to be some great birds, but just racing and getting the bird home safe is what I really want to see. A win would be nice, but just competing is what I love.


Russ*


----------



## conditionfreak

I am like Happy. My main love in this sport is old bird racing. I like the 500 mile + mile races. I wish my club still raced 600 miles, but they stopped that. 

Most pigeon racers like the young bird races because that is where the money is (I guess). But racing old birds is like having an old dog around. A puppy is cute and all. But an old dog is an old friend and a treasure.


----------



## jpsnapdy

conditionfreak said:


> I am like Happy. My main love in this sport is old bird racing. I like the 500 mile + mile races. I wish my club still raced 600 miles, but they stopped that.
> 
> Most pigeon racers like the young bird races because that is where the money is (I guess). But racing old birds is like having an old dog around. A puppy is cute and all. But an old dog is an old friend and a treasure.


My thought exactly. But here in India, there is no money in it anyway, the glory, bragging rights and the fame is only in the marathon races, that's where everyone dreams of getting winners in. Although the better results are still in the short & middle distance races, distances under 500Mi don't get much recognition, it's mostly a training for Young birds and new fanciers.
Check out this club's website:
http://www.vrpc.in/2011Result.aspx


----------



## conditionfreak

How do birds on that link, arrive at 04:59 am? Is it light then?


----------



## Crazy Pete

jpsnapdy said:


> My thought exactly. But here in India, there is no money in it anyway, the glory, bragging rights and the fame is only in the marathon races, that's where everyone dreams of getting winners in. Although the better results are still in the short & middle distance races, distances under 500Mi don't get much recognition, it's mostly a training for Young birds and new fanciers.
> Check out this club's website:
> http://www.vrpc.in/2011Result.aspx[/QUOT
> 
> That last race1550 km, what strain of birds do you fly?
> Dave


----------



## Josepe

Walt posted:

"mtripoh's bird is COV-26. Who I have reason to believe, is now safe in Flapdoodles loft. I have been told that it came home from the last race, even though it does not state so on the official "list" yet."

Who told you Tom? Hopefully it is the same case or will be shortly with LL 1006.And hopefully Tom keeps updating the "list".As I've said as consistent as he flew in every race I cannot see him not coming home.


----------



## jpsnapdy

conditionfreak said:


> How do birds on that link, arrive at 04:59 am? Is it light then?


Noticed it too. I think there are mistakes in that race results, like dates, etc. I notified it to the club. It's not my club or town, by the way.


----------



## macka

Sounds like it is a night flying Pigeon,
it was probably a moon light night.
There is Pigeons, that will fly through
the night to come home.


----------



## jpsnapdy

Crazy Pete said:


> [QUOTE
> 
> That last race1550 km, what strain of birds do you fly?
> Dave


Again: not my club. According to that same website they are Mr Velsamy's old local strain, others are not mentioned.
I never flew that distance, my mentor used to do it with his own stain made of old lines: HVR/Sion/Cattrysse/Newcombe birds but mostly Newcombe crosses towards the end (Edwin Newcombe of Scotland). His best results @ 1500k were around 5 days. But to my knowledge, he was the only fancier in India who could win the 750km and 860km on the day.


----------



## Josepe

Tom still needs to post an official printout from the clock.All that's there is a bunch of times and no dates.


----------



## Flapdoodle

Josepe said:


> Tom still needs to post an official printout from the clock.All that's there is a bunch of times and no dates.


I will work on the print out later this week. 



Josepe said:


> Walt posted:
> 
> "mtripoh's bird is COV-26. Who I have reason to believe, is now safe in Flapdoodles loft. I have been told that it came home from the last race, even though it does not state so on the official "list" yet."
> 
> Who told you Tom? Hopefully it is the same case or will be shortly with LL 1006.And hopefully Tom keeps updating the "list".As I've said as consistent as he flew in every race I cannot see him not coming home.


Yesterday on my way out, I noticed two birds pacing back and forth on the settling cage. The trap is open so birds can get in. Obviously they were not ours as they didn't know how to use the trap to enter. When I came up they both took off. I checked the clock and sure enough, COV 26 clocked. I went through the birds this morning and he is in there! I will keep an eye out for the others.


----------



## conditionfreak

"I checked the clock and sure enough, COV 26 clocked."

WooHoo. Happy, happy!


----------



## ace in the hole

conditionfreak said:


> "I checked the clock and sure enough, COV 26 clocked."
> 
> WooHoo. Happy, happy!


You bred some good birds there Walt.

How have their siblings been doing for you?


----------



## Josepe

Glad Cov 26 made it back.With him coming 4 days late I'm still looking for 1006 to come in.Them over stuffed stomachs on shipping day must be lasting them for a few days.


----------



## rackerman

*Alright, 26 is back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Congrats!!!!!!!

I hope all the rest make it now!!! Thanks Tom!!*


----------



## rackerman

Tom, I PM'd you my address & phone number. Let me know you got it!!!

Thank you!!


----------



## conditionfreak

ace in the hole said:


> You bred some good birds there Walt.
> 
> How have their siblings been doing for you?


Meh. Got lucky. 

I have two from the same parents as C)V-32 and 33. None from the parents of COV-26. The two siblings of 32 and 33 are still here, miraculously. Haven't won anything yet. One sibling did get 40th out of 1,080 birds though. I typicallly finish around 90th to 125th, out of the 1,000 or so birds. Not too good, but could be worse.

I am using a manual clock and am not set up for using one. I wait until the birds come home, then go into the loft and catch them. Then take the counter mark back outside to my picnic table and put it in the clock. Takes me awhile as I wait until the bird gets a drink before clocking it. I don't want to spook them.

I am just messing around this year, waiting to get set up for an electronic clocking system for next year. I already raced a full season with my other club, where I did not do so good. I am waaayy out of the line of flight with them. 

This new organization uses Benzing clocks and I have a Unicon system. I bought that Benzing Express at a yard sale, but am not using it yet. I have to get some bands and figure out how to work the darn thing.

Next year.

I'm contemplating building a bigger, better loft for next years PT Classic. But it is cold here now and is only going to get colder, so I may not get that done.

P.S. rackerman, the trophy is on the way.


----------



## rackerman

conditionfreak said:


> Meh. Got lucky.
> 
> I have two from the same parents as C)V-32 and 33. None from the parents of COV-26. The two siblings of 32 and 33 are still here, miraculously. Haven't won anything yet. One sibling did get 40th out of 1,080 birds though. I typicallly finish around 90th to 125th, out of the 1,000 or so birds. Not too good, but could be worse.
> 
> I am using a manual clock and am not set up for using one. I wait until the birds come home, then go into the loft and catch them. Then take the counter mark back outside to my picnic table and put it in the clock. Takes me awhile as I wait until the bird gets a drink before clocking it. I don't want to spook them.
> 
> I am just messing around this year, waiting to get set up for an electronic clocking system for next year. I already raced a full season with my other club, where I did not do so good. I am waaayy out of the line of flight with them.
> 
> This new organization uses Benzing clocks and I have a Unicon system. I bought that Benzing Express at a yard sale, but am not using it yet. I have to get some bands and figure out how to work the darn thing.
> 
> Next year.
> 
> I'm contemplating building a bigger, better loft for next years PT Classic. But it is cold here now and is only going to get colder, so I may not get that done.
> 
> P.S. rackerman, the trophy is on the way.


*Thanks Walt and for everything you have done for me! Don't worry about that trophy, it won't sit in a closet and I will be diffenitly showing it off for a long, long time The next one is going to be a hard one to get*


----------



## mtripOH

Thank you Tom for the happy update!! Wonder what the heck she was up to. Josiah is relieved and is looking forward to getting to pick her up at the post office. 
Josepe and others still waiting on their birds...Please know that I am praying and sending happy thoughts for a safe return of your pigeons. As much as I am happy that COV26 made it back it saddens me to know that others are still waiting for theirs to show up. 
I am not too sure that I am cut out for this racing business...I am such a sap


----------



## Josepe

Thanks Melissa.Tell Josiah to enjoy that bird!


----------



## PigeonVilla

I have to say myself that this was the most disturbing race I have ever witnessed with all the nonstop nagging and banterring about certain peoples birds in the races here . Once you are in a race you are just committed to the end result and you have to live with it from the time you send a bird out til the end as to wether they may or may not return .None made the quota as far as his club races so why on earth are you bragging about the end results  Even the people who had the winning birds in the end did not have anything to do with the birds breeding in the end ,didnt pay shipping either or perch fee so why do you think you deserve the right complain all the way thru the races so much more then those that did  You can try and make up your excuses as to why you should be heard but to me it was all a blah blah blah kind of series. It was fun to follow the results minus all the static inbetween thats for sure and I do and will commend Tom for placing the blame on himself all the way threw, that guy is a freaking saint and very fertile too boot hehe !

P.S. I breed birds for pleasure and you people took the pleasure out of breeding birds ,thats for sure if you ask me .lol


----------



## Josepe

Yada Yada Argle Bargle


----------



## Crazy Pete

They did not breed the birds but in the end cov 33, and 32 go home to them not the breeder. I bought birds to put in a one loft race when I first got started, and they were my birds I don't care who bred them I rooted for them till the end and the $6400 that they won was mine and so are the birds. What do you care if some one gifted them the birds, witch now belong to them. I think it was a noble thing to do and I commend them for it.
Dave


----------



## MaryOfExeter

I don't understand why everyone keeps saying this was so horrible? No one started complaining until it was over. Everything else were legitimate concerns, such as wondering how the birds did when we don't get updates. Of course there's no need in having a whole page of people nagging Tom over the same thing, as he is either here or he isn't...but whatever. I thought it was all fun and games the whole time?


----------



## conditionfreak

PigeonVilla said:


> I have to say myself that this was the most disturbing race I have ever witnessed with all the nonstop nagging and banterring about certain peoples birds in the races here . Once you are in a race you are just committed to the end result and you have to live with it from the time you send a bird out til the end as to wether they may or may not return .None made the quota as far as his club races so why on earth are you bragging about the end results  Even the people who had the winning birds in the end did not have anything to do with the birds breeding in the end ,didnt pay shipping either or perch fee so why do you think you deserve the right complain all the way thru the races so much more then those that did  You can try and make up your excuses as to why you should be heard but to me it was all a blah blah blah kind of series. It was fun to follow the results minus all the static inbetween thats for sure and I do and will commend Tom for placing the blame on himself all the way threw, that guy is a freaking saint and very fertile too boot hehe !
> 
> P.S. I breed birds for pleasure and you people took the pleasure out of breeding birds ,thats for sure if you ask me .lol


PigeonVilla. Of course you have the right to your opinion. But in my opinion, you are way off base. First of all, your assumption (or statement of fact) that "they" did not pay for the shipping is totally wrong. "They" did pay for the shipping. Your statement that "they" did not pay the perch fee is also totally wrong. "They" did in fact pay the entry fees.

And I will never understand how the chit chat or bragging here, interferred with your pleasure of breeding birds for fun. But don't try to explain it. It can't be logically explained, IMO.

I could go on and on about your mis-statements. But the point is this:

"They" entered. You didn't. rackerman won. You didn't. "Their birds won races. Your birds bred "for fun" didn't. "Their birds survived and did well. You didn't. etc, etc.

If Bill Gates purchased the San Francisco 49ers, and the 49ers win the Superbowl. Does Bill Gates have bragging rights? He is just the owner after all. He didn't draft them, train them or even hire the coaching staff. He just bought them and paid their bills.

Those that entered this competition with birds bred by another, OWN those birds. They OWNED those birds from the day those birds were put into shipping boxes and sent to Flapdoodle. At "their" expense. "They" have bragging rights. No ifs, ands or buts about it.

Can we please put to rest this "you didn't breed them so how can you brag about them" krap. "They" own the darn birds. Of course they have bragging rights. The owner of the great racing horse Secretariat did not "breed" that horse. She just owned it.

nuff' said about that. (I hope)

Geeesh!


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Well after starting my day in meetings at 8:00am dealing with 210 11 year olds, eating my lunch in a meeting, after school bus stop duty, stopping by and talking to my oldest son's principal and police officers about his issues, the best part of my day so far is feeding my birds and listening to you all whine about a race that was over weeks ago. It ain't so bad.


----------



## Matt Bell

The thing that tells the whole story is that Tom said he is glad its over and looks forward to taking a break from the forum even. Good lord, he gave everyone the chance to test their birds in what was known to be a harsh course, for free or very little money at all. Everyone knew from the beginning he has a big family with kids that play soccer (that was even in the thread from last race) yet many expected up to the minute results as if he is a 65 year old retired man sitting at a picnic table watching for the birds. On top of that the man had personal problems come up and still couldn't be cut a bit of slack by many (not all). I just hate to think that it was such a bad experience that the man was runoff, notice he hasn't been back in a while. Sometimes ya just can't see the forest for all of the trees...


----------



## conditionfreak

Matt Bell said:


> many expected up to the minute results as if he is a 65 year old retired man sitting at a picnic table watching for the birds....


Hey! I resemble that remark.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Matt Bell said:


> The thing that tells the whole story is that Tom said he is glad its over and looks forward to taking a break from the forum even. Good lord, he gave everyone the chance to test their birds in what was known to be a harsh course, for free or very little money at all. Everyone knew from the beginning he has a big family with kids that play soccer (that was even in the thread from last race) yet many expected up to the minute results as if he is a 65 year old retired man sitting at a picnic table watching for the birds. On top of that the man had personal problems come up and still couldn't be cut a bit of slack by many (not all). I just hate to think that it was such a bad experience that the man was runoff, notice he hasn't been back in a while. Sometimes ya just can't see the forest for all of the trees...


Do agree with you here. Kind of like an abusive relationship. Pigeon guys are sometimes brutal. I really do not know how he does the race with the responsibilities that he has. Kind of like being an employee with 30 different bosses. Bunch of grumpy old farts.


----------



## conditionfreak

hillfamilyloft said:


> Bunch of grumpy old farts.


Okay. Why do you guys keep mentioning me?


----------



## rackerman

**


Josepe said:


> Yada Yada Argle Bargle


Now thats funny


----------



## rackerman

MaryOfExeter said:


> I don't understand why everyone keeps saying this was so horrible? No one started complaining until it was over. Everything else were legitimate concerns, such as wondering how the birds did when we don't get updates. Of course there's no need in having a whole page of people nagging Tom over the same thing, as he is either here or he isn't...but whatever. I thought it was all fun and games the whole time?


*Becky, I have to agree with you 100%. *


----------



## macka

Matt Bell said:


> The thing that tells the whole story is that Tom said he is glad its over and looks forward to taking a break from the forum even. Good lord, he gave everyone the chance to test their birds in what was known to be a harsh course, for free or very little money at all. Everyone knew from the beginning he has a big family with kids that play soccer (that was even in the thread from last race) yet many expected up to the minute results as if he is a 65 year old retired man sitting at a picnic table watching for the birds. On top of that the man had personal problems come up and still couldn't be cut a bit of slack by many (not all). I just hate to think that it was such a bad experience that the man was runoff, notice he hasn't been back in a while. Sometimes ya just can't see the forest for all of the trees...


That is a big problem with Pigeon flyers,they think of no one else,
but them selves.I have been following this thread from the start.
Some of the pigeons, he was sent,were lucky to fly back from a toss.
The bloke did a good job to put up with the wingers,if it was me, I would of
said Buggar off.Macka.


----------



## PigeonVilla

macka said:


> That is a big problem with Pigeon flyers,they think of no one else,
> but them selves.I have been following this thread from the start.
> Some of the pigeons, he was sent,were lucky to fly back from a toss.
> The bloke did a good job to put up with the wingers,if it was me, I would of
> said Buggar off.Macka.


 lol All good replys,sometimes you just have to give it back to make all the nagging and bantering seem worth it in the end.


----------



## rackerman

Heres what Tom's updated on the list so far...


Birds 
Sheet1Sheet2Sheet3 

.
Place Champion Bird based on Combine Points Race #1 Race #2 Race # 3 Race #4 Race #5 Race #6 Race #7 Race #8 goes to 
.
#1 188.6 COV 33 33 rackerman 1 4 1 1 6 6 hb 6 rackerman 
.
#2 156 GFTG 113 113 blong boy 2 6 hb 8 1 2 flapdoodle 
.
#2 156 AVC 1105 1105 happy 1 1 3 3 trapped in 10/16 happy 
.
#4 136.7 COV 26 26 mtripOH 13 2 2 3 1 8 hb A trapped in 10/18 mtripOH 
.
#5 103.4 GFTG 105 105 Ace in the Hole 1 8 hb 2 2 5 hb hb Josepe 
.
#6 90.6 AVC 1108 1108 happy 2 9 1 6 5 1 hb 3 happy 
.
#7 16.2 CHAS 1510 1510 3 12 mia mia A trapped in 10/17 flapdoodle 
.
#8 0.6 KEYHOLE 424 424 jpsnapdy 9 late hb 10 4 2 3 1 flapdoodle 
.
ARPU 19252 19252 eyespyer 9 late hb 9 2 ? 
.
MTP 1442 1442 southtown racers 5 7 late 4 1 4 hb 4 flapdoodle 
.
ZEPPELIN 6 6 bbcdon 5 late hb late 3 5 flapdoodle 
.
COV 32 32 rackerman late late 12 2 2 7 hb 7 rackerman 
.
111.6 LL 1006 1006 Josepe 2 2 4 5 3 3 hb A 
.
TRC 11464 11464 Lucky Loft 11 late late hb A 
.
SD 412 412 Kalapati 7 late hb 8 1 A 
.
I 21582 21582 First To Hatch late late hb hb 6 2 A 
.
TRC 11473 11473 Lucky Loft 8 5 late mia A 
.
LKY 1063 1063 Kastle Loft late late hb hb 
.
VITA KING 785 785 Thunderbird Racing 4 2 late 7 7 
.
VITA KING 789 789 Thunderbird Racing 8 7 9 1 8 
.
MTP 1441 1441 southtown racers 9 3 11 6 5 
.
NEPLS 1827 1827 loonecho late 7 late late 4 
.
ARPU 2810 2810 kbraden 13 late 5 5 3 
.
JEDDS 5006 5006 Beaverbandit late late hb late 7 
.
JEDDS 5010 5010 Beaverbandit 14 late hb late 8 
.
GFTG 108 108 Hill Family Loft 11 mia mia trapped in 9/25 
.
SPO 706 706 JHoll 15 late hb 11 
.
LNC 11314 11314 Crazy Pete 11 late hb hb 
.
OCALA 1082 1082 West (ship to Timber) 5 6 hb late 
.
TORR 357 357 Gnuretiree late late hb 2 
.
NEPLS 1802 1802 loonecho 10 8 7 12 
.
GFTG 115 115 MaryofExeter 3 10 late 
.
GFTG 110 110 Xueoo 4 9 4 
.
GFTG 114 114 blong boy 6 late hb 
.
JAX 2618 2618 jAxTecH 10 20 late 
.
I 8970 8970 Eriduardo late late 5 
.
LNC 11333 11333 Crazy Pete late 5 6 
.
ARPU 38293 38293 dogging_99 10 5 6 
.

.
34698 1 hb B 14:18:06 
.
67 hb 2 B 17:32:28 
.
1217 3 hb B 
.
201 2 hb B 12:08:27 

Published by Google Docs – Report Abuse – Updated automatically every 5 minutes


----------



## ace in the hole

Ok, I know I said I was going to award two of my *Pigeon Message Capsules *two the second place bird and a pair of *Racing Pigeon Band Earrings *to the third place bird but we have a tie for second. So here is what I'll do.

*blong boy*
Please PM me your shipping info and I will send you one pigeon message capsule for second place.

*happy*
Please PM me your shipping info and I will send you one pigeon message capsule for second place.

*mtripOH*
Please PM me your shipping info and I will send you one set of racing pigeon band earrings.

Congrats to all of you, 

Mark/Ace


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## ace in the hole

rackerman said:


> Heres what Tom's updated on the list so far...
> 
> 
> Birds
> Sheet1Sheet2Sheet3
> 
> .
> Place Champion Bird based on Combine Points Race #1 Race #2 Race # 3 Race #4 Race #5 Race #6 Race #7 Race #8 goes to
> .
> #1 188.6 COV 33 33 rackerman 1 4 1 1 6 6 hb 6 rackerman
> .
> #2 156 GFTG 113 113 blong boy 2 6 hb 8 1 2 flapdoodle
> .
> #2 156 AVC 1105 1105 happy 1 1 3 3 trapped in 10/16 happy
> .
> #4 136.7 COV 26 26 mtripOH 13 2 2 3 1 8 hb A trapped in 10/18 mtripOH
> .
> #5 103.4 GFTG 105 105 Ace in the Hole 1 8 hb 2 2 5 hb hb Josepe
> .
> #6 90.6 AVC 1108 1108 happy 2 9 1 6 5 1 hb 3 happy
> .
> #7 16.2 CHAS 1510 1510 3 12 mia mia A trapped in 10/17 flapdoodle
> .
> #8 0.6 KEYHOLE 424 424 jpsnapdy 9 late hb 10 4 2 3 1 flapdoodle
> .
> ______________________________________________________________
> 
> *Just bumping this to this page.
> 
> The full list is on the bottom of pg.180*


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## rackerman

Mark that is very nice of you!! Your a great sport!
I will be getting the Cov birds sent to me on Tom for winning and Walt has a trophy in the mail as we speak. I will post a picture of Cov33 with the Trophy when they get here!!
I can't wait for next year!! I hope to see you there Mark


----------



## ace in the hole

rackerman said:


> Mark that is very nice of you!! Your a great sport!
> I will be getting the Cov birds sent to me on Tom for winning and Walt has a trophy in the mail as we speak. I will post a picture of Cov33 with the Trophy when they get here!!
> I can't wait for next year!! I hope to see you there Mark


Trust me I'll be there. I'm sending in the big guns next year.


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## conditionfreak

Very kind Mark. Thank you from all of us.

Very kind of Flapdoole also, for sending the birds to rackerman out of his own pocket. Very kind indeed.


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## Josepe

Now Tom needs to post the clock prinout.
I believe Ace and Randy will be the ones to beat next year.


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## rackerman

I do believe there will be lots of good birds and who knows, anyone can win. Lots of things can happen.


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## hillfamilyloft

Josepe said:


> Now Tom needs to post the clock prinout.
> I believe Ace and Randy will be the ones to beat next year.


I hope that is true, but there are some good birds going next year. It will also be a different course. We may get a whole different bunch of guys towards the top. Just hope the two I send for me do better than the two this year.


----------



## conditionfreak

I must say that the leaders from last year are far removed from the leaders of this years competition. Such is pigeon racing.

But of course, if Warren had entered this years races. He would have surely won or been close.

Possibly. Perhaps. Maybe. Probably. Coulda. Woulda. 

I forget. Did anyone enter SFL lineage birds this year? Serious question.


----------



## conditionfreak

On a side note: I was gifted some hens from a good flyer that has too many hens. They are a grand daughter of Sure Bet, two hens from Habermann lines, and one from Magic Maker lines. I didn't breed from them this past season because it was too late in the year. I am anxious to try them out in the breeding loft but with holding the next PT Classic event, I just won't have the space.

Have to wait until 2013 I guess. Darn it. I probably won't even live that long. 

I have to build another loft I think. No two ways about it. But I am such a lousy carpenter.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

conditionfreak said:


> I must say that the leaders from last year are far removed from the leaders of this years competition. Such is pigeon racing.
> 
> But of course, if Warren had entered this years races. He would have surely won or been close.
> 
> Possibly. Perhaps. Maybe. Probably. Coulda. Woulda.
> 
> I forget. Did anyone enter SFL lineage birds this year? Serious question.


LL 1006 was off Mark's SFL hen. He did all but the 300 in good time. The bird has both Warren's President and Ludo lines.


----------



## mtripOH

Thanks Mark for the awesome prize! That is very nice of you. I am pretty sure that Josiah will not wear them  but I surely will!!

I also want to add to the list of things that Tom has gone out of his way and done for this race...I am sure that you all know and agree that he did the following:
Took apart a loft and rebuilt it at his place.
Made several trips to pick up birds.
Took good care of the birds he received.
Took at least 2 birds to the vet to be checked at his expense.
Did all the training.
Got our birds to the races.
Posted a few videos.
Posted results.
Got a new clock when his failed.
Put up with a lot of crabbing.
I am sure there is lots more that I left out...
Then to top it all off he is shipping birds back at his expense and asking us to send the shipping cost to him AFTER we receive the bird. I don't know of anyone that ships birds/merchandise first then asks for payment.

Tom, I commend you. I do not know how you pulled it off, but you did. I think after considering all that has been going on in your life over the last several months, most people would have thrown in the towel. You kept at it and kept it all going. You deserve a break. Go enjoy life and your family. After all this I hope that you will still enjoy your pigeons and the sport.


----------



## Flapdoodle

Rose Genevieve, 7 lbs 4 oz, 19", 10/19/11 

Both Mom and Baby are doing great!!


----------



## Flapdoodle

*Shipping birds home.*

Shipping is not going to happen until the 31st. I have some prior commitments I forgot about. I will go back and read the post and respond when I can.


----------



## mtripOH

Flapdoodle said:


> Rose Genevieve, 7 lbs 4 oz, 19", 10/19/11
> 
> Both Mom and Baby are doing great!!


Well, well, well!!!!!Super big congrats to you and your wife!! What a beautiful name! Glad to hear everyone is doing great! Are we gonna get to see her?


----------



## Big T

Josepe said:


> Now Tom needs to post the clock prinout.
> I believe Ace and Randy will be the ones to beat next year.


Tom needs to post baby pictures!!!! I still cannot believe he did this with a baby in the oven.

Thank Tom and Tom's wife.


----------



## mtripOH

Flapdoodle said:


> Shipping is not going to happen until the 31st. I have some prior commitments I forgot about. I will go back and read the post and respond when I can.


Tom, we fully understand. I was hoping that COV26 could have a bit of a rest before she shipped out anyway. Thanks again.


----------



## mtripOH

Big T said:


> Tom needs to post baby pictures!!!! I still cannot believe he did this with a baby in the oven.
> 
> Thank Tom and Tom's wife.


I agree 110%!!


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Flapdoodle said:


> Rose Genevieve, 7 lbs 4 oz, 19", 10/19/11
> 
> Both Mom and Baby are doing great!!


BEAUTIFUL name! Glad to hear all went well


----------



## First To Hatch

Congrats Tom!


----------



## conditionfreak

Flapdoodle said:


> Rose Genevieve, 7 lbs 4 oz, 19", 10/19/11
> 
> Both Mom and Baby are doing great!!


Awesome. Congratulations to you and the mom.

Is that big for a baby girl (we only have boys)?


----------



## rackerman

Tom, Congratulations to you, the wife and the children. I am glad all went well. Hope you can post some pics', if not, thats OK too


----------



## rackerman

mtripOH said:


> Thanks Mark for the awesome prize! That is very nice of you. I am pretty sure that Josiah will not wear them  but I surely will!!
> 
> I also want to add to the list of things that Tom has gone out of his way and done for this race...I am sure that you all know and agree that he did the following:
> Took apart a loft and rebuilt it at his place.
> Made several trips to pick up birds.
> Took good care of the birds he received.
> Took at least 2 birds to the vet to be checked at his expense.
> Did all the training.
> Got our birds to the races.
> Posted a few videos.
> Posted results.
> Got a new clock when his failed.
> Put up with a lot of crabbing.I am sure there is lots more that I left out...
> Then to top it all off he is shipping birds back at his expense and asking us to send the shipping cost to him AFTER we receive the bird. I don't know of anyone that ships birds/merchandise first then asks for payment.
> 
> Tom, I commend you. I do not know how you pulled it off, but you did. I think after considering all that has been going on in your life over the last several months, most people would have thrown in the towel. You kept at it and kept it all going. You deserve a break. Go enjoy life and your family. After all this I hope that you will still enjoy your pigeons and the sport.


Very nicely said, I agree 100%. When you think of it, how did he do all that...


----------



## Gnuretiree

Flapdoodle said:


> Rose Genevieve, 7 lbs 4 oz, 19", 10/19/11
> 
> Both Mom and Baby are doing great!!


Congratulations!! You are a winner. 
Thanks for all you efforts on our behalf during the PT race

Hugh


----------



## jpsnapdy

Flapdoodle said:


> Rose Genevieve, 7 lbs 4 oz, 19", 10/19/11
> 
> Both Mom and Baby are doing great!!


Wow!
Congratulations to you and your wife. 
Big kisses to Rose Genevieve! the second one is a lovely old fashioned french name, sweet!
May God bless you and your family Tom!


----------



## Alamo

*Rose G.*

Sounds like a little RC hen....hahahahahaha!!! What great news....I just LOVE red checks,especially little hens.....Alamo


----------



## dogging_99

Flapdoodle said:


> Rose Genevieve, 7 lbs 4 oz, 19", 10/19/11
> 
> Both Mom and Baby are doing great!!


Supper! Congratulations to you and your Wife Tom.

Thank you for the Pigeon racing experience, it all was wonderful. 

You had a lot on your plate and you handled it well! Thats probably just the norm for you, you seam to have a high energy level, Good Job!


----------



## mtripOH

Kind of boring now that the PT Classic is all done. I am kind of missing the stress


----------



## First To Hatch

mtripOH said:


> Kind of boring now that the PT Classic is all done. I am kind of missing the stress


I was actually racing my own birds and now that the season has been over I've been missing it very much, can't wait till next year.


----------



## blongboy

mtripOH said:


> Kind of boring now that the PT Classic is all done. I am kind of missing the stress


lol feel the same way


----------



## conditionfreak

blongboy. I neglected to mention how well your bird did in the contest. Excellent. Can't wait to see how you do in the future.


----------



## Crazy Pete

Boring? Now is the time to study how the young birds did, check peds, clean and paint the loft. I'm not sure about you guys I have nest boxes to rebuild I would like to change all my perches. these are all things you can't do during the race season. "birds don't like change" Now is really when the fun starts.
Dave


----------



## First To Hatch

Crazy Pete said:


> Boring? Now is the time to study how the young birds did, check peds, clean and paint the loft. I'm not sure about you guys I have nest boxes to rebuild I would like to change all my perches. these are all things you can't do during the race season. "birds don't like change" Now is really when the fun starts.
> Dave


I actually still need to build 16 nest boxes, 2 aviaries, and 60 perches. I guess boring isn't the word, but I flat out do miss racing and training.


----------



## Crazy Pete

First To Hatch said:


> I actually still need to build 16 nest boxes, 2 aviaries, and 60 perches. I guess boring isn't the word, but I flat out do miss racing and training.


You got me there, I hate to paint.
Dave


----------



## conditionfreak

Couple of funny pigeon pics, to pass the time.


----------



## Crazy Pete

That's the same pic as when Bush was elected, still funny.
Dave


----------



## mtripOH

Walt, you made my day start with a laugh! Thanks for sharing!


----------



## mtripOH

Crazy Pete said:


> Boring? Now is the time to study how the young birds did, check peds, clean and paint the loft. I'm not sure about you guys I have nest boxes to rebuild I would like to change all my perches. these are all things you can't do during the race season. "birds don't like change" Now is really when the fun starts.
> Dave


We have quite a lot to do in the loft as well. I spent my normal Saturday fretting time in the loft cleaning and scraping and messing with our birds. We recently added 5 new nesting boxes but we need more. Would like to switch the "beginner" perches we put in when we first built the lofts. I also want to add a nice sized aviary. I kicked butt at the bank last quarter and I am getting my best ever incentive check on Friday. But there is a catch...I already spent some of that incentive money by winning pair #2 from Hillfamilyloft. I really need to get these things done at my loft but I have been eyeing up pairs 3 and 4 too!! So, why don't y'all get over there to the "for sale" forum and snatch up those birds so I will still have some cash left to put into our loft . Come on now..help me out


----------



## blongboy

conditionfreak said:


> blongboy. I neglected to mention how well your bird did in the contest. Excellent. Can't wait to see how you do in the future.


thanks ...sad thing is im planing on getting out of pigeon ...i sold most of all my birds already and planing on keeping only one pair next year just to send to the pt 2012 race

life don't ever go my way


----------



## mtripOH

blongboy said:


> thanks ...sad thing is im planing on getting out of pigeon ...i sold most of all my birds already and planing on keeping only one pair next year just to send to the pt 2012 race
> 
> life don't ever go my way


That is sad news. It only takes 1 pair to raise a winner. Hope things start turning for you.


----------



## First To Hatch

Oh, yeah I need to paint the wood for the aviaries too.


----------



## Flapdoodle

We are just about through all the drama.... and then....a bird with pox. 

rackerman it happens to be COV 32.

Out of the four that are getting birds shipped back who has vaccinated for pox?

I hope it is contained to one bird. He has been separated for two days. Does anyone know if/what the incubation period is for pox? I have not seen it manifest in any of the other birds.

Here is a video of the bird in question.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsKD-HvA7Gs


----------



## Crazy Pete

rackerman you better treat for pox and get Tom to keep the birds for an extra 10 days or so.
Dave


----------



## mtripOH

Flapdoodle said:


> Out of the four that are getting birds shipped back who has vaccinated for pox?


What is the best approach to take for those of us getting birds back? We have a total of 36 pigeons that have not been vaccinated. Is pox typically contagious? I am going to go read up on it now, but any input will be appreciated.


----------



## MaryOfExeter

Pox is extremely contagious. It stays in the body for 4-6 weeks I believe. They also have a fever when they have pox. Which is why you put them on lockdown when you vaccinate for it. Has never been a big deal for me, but I have seem some pretty nasty cases. You can put some kind of drying agent on the lesions to help them go away faster. I can't think of the names of any medicines for that right now.


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## Flapdoodle

Well this is one time where giving me hell is totally justified. I poxed the birds last year and intended to do it this year... I have the freaking vaccine in my fridge. 

I know you guys are attached to the birds and want them back. The easiest and smartest thing to do is leave them with me unless you vaccinated your current birds for pox. If you talked with anyone outside of your attachment to the birds that is probably the simplest answer. 

A few different resources point out the birds can be infected up to two weeks before showing pox symptoms. The pox lesions can take up to six weeks to dry up and fall off. 

If you do decide to get the bird/birds back you can further isolate the bird for two weeks and if it shows no visible signs of pox introduce it to the group. I would then vaccinate all the birds at the same time just to be safe.


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## Flapdoodle

MaryOfExeter said:


> Pox is extremely contagious. It stays in the body for 4-6 weeks I believe. They also have a fever when they have pox. Which is why you put them on lockdown when you vaccinate for it. Has never been a big deal for me, but I have seem some pretty nasty cases. You can put some kind of drying agent on the lesions to help them go away faster. I can't think of the names of any medicines for that right now.


Some of the resources I have checked basically say that it can be transmitted in water, feed, the air. One source states it is mostly transferred bird to bird. Probably in the crate at shipping COV 32 locked up with another cock fighting that was infected. One good thing we have going for us in the loft is the size. 8x24 feet. With the 25 or so birds we have the pecking order is established so hopefully it was not passed on.


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## Flapdoodle

Crazy Pete said:


> rackerman you better treat for pox and get Tom to keep the birds for an extra 10 days or so.
> Dave


That makes the most sense providing you have the birds shipped back. The wild card would be your other bird COV 33. It might make sense to wait until you get COV 33 so you can vaccinate him with all your other birds. If we do ship them back I can send them in different boxes for you.


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## conditionfreak

I recommend ther birds stay with Flapdoodle well past the stage upon where they seem "normal".

If that is not a problem with Flapdoodle. If it is, then the birds could be shipped but should be put in cages far away from all of the rest of the birds. Even then, the disease could be trnasferred from the human hands to the various lofts.

They should stay with Flapdoodle if that is not too big a hassle. All of them. Problem is that onee or two might have the disease currently and others might come down with it later. Making it hard to figure out when and if all are "past it".


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## Crazy Pete

Tom if you have the vaccine in the fridge use it on the rest of the birds, can't hurt. To the people getting birds back call Foys or who ever in the morning, it will be shipped faster if you call than ordering online. Foys also has a liquid that you can put on with a swab to speed up healing time.
Dave


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## Flapdoodle

Crazy Pete said:


> Tom if you have the vaccine in the fridge use it on the rest of the birds, can't hurt. To the people getting birds back call Foys or who ever in the morning, it will be shipped faster if you call than ordering online. Foys also has a liquid that you can put on with a swab to speed up healing time.
> Dave


I was not sure what my plan was for next year. I have every member in my club rounding up a pair or two for me to use as breeders. I think I may need to wait until I get the those other birds and vaccinate them at the same time. That will delay my pairing up until around the first of the year. 

I may move all the current birds to the old loft several hundred feet away and just keep waters, crates, and feeders separate. If I torch and then spray bleach in the loft I should be able to pair the birds from club members at Thanksgiving.


----------



## conditionfreak

What do you mean by "torch"?


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## Flapdoodle

conditionfreak said:


> What do you mean by "torch"?


I have a propane torch hooked to a 5 gallon propane tank. It throws about a 12" flame. You can reach all the cracks and corners of the loft, wood feeders, perches, nest boxes. You move it around to sterilize the surface but not catch the wood on fire.


----------



## rackerman

*Wow I just got home from work and can't believe this!! Tom, right now I am glad they are not on there way here and then find out. I thank you for saying something! I don't want to turn this thread into a POX thread, so we can communicate throught PM. I don't believe I have the Med for Pox. I would like you to keep them there untill you know, all is good. I am not mad at all, just thankful they didn't hit my loft and spread it to my birds!!! Thank you, thank you! I have about 40 birds and that would have been bad. 
So, lets keep it to PM.
Thank you so much Tom. I really want them two birds bad and I trust you will work it out, your a good Man.

Russ*


Flapdoodle said:


> We are just about through all the drama.... and then....a bird with pox.
> 
> rackerman it happens to be COV 32.
> 
> Out of the four that are getting birds shipped back who has vaccinated for pox?
> 
> I hope it is contained to one bird. He has been separated for two days. Does anyone know if/what the incubation period is for pox? I have not seen it manifest in any of the other birds.
> 
> Here is a video of the bird in question.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsKD-HvA7Gs


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## jpsnapdy

Flapdoodle said:


> We are just about through all the drama.... and then....a bird with pox.
> 
> rackerman it happens to be COV 32.
> 
> Out of the four that are getting birds shipped back who has vaccinated for pox?
> 
> I hope it is contained to one bird. He has been separated for two days. Does anyone know if/what the incubation period is for pox? I have not seen it manifest in any of the other birds.
> 
> Here is a video of the bird in question.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsKD-HvA7Gs


Most viruses' incubation period is ten days. But if one bird shows pox the others generally will have it pop out very soon coz they probably have it too.
My "treatment" (there isn't one) is to force bathe the pox infected birds with some Dettol bath and feed them a LOT of barley. They can be let out for exercise, but avoid too much exposure to the sun and heat. Also alternatively add some vitamins and garlic in the drinker. At this age, the risk is nil, just let the pox run its course. Birds will be immune for their lifetime. No big deal!


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## jpsnapdy

Flapdoodle said:


> I may move all the current birds to the old loft several hundred feet away and just keep waters, crates, and feeders separate. If I torch and then spray bleach in the loft I should be able to pair the birds from club members at Thanksgiving.


The infected birds have to have got it from "somewhere". Where I stay, it is safe to say that all young birds in the area have got it (the vectors are mosquitoes). The seriousness of the attack depends on how healthy the birds were in the first place.


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## rpalmer

There is nothing or no one that can convince someone to vaccinate their birds like wishing they had.


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## Crazy Pete

rpalmer said:


> There is nothing or no one that can convince someone to vaccinate their birds like wishing they had.



You said a mouth full here.
Dave


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## rackerman

Tom, I sent you another PM!!


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## Flapdoodle

rpalmer said:


> There is nothing or no one that can convince someone to vaccinate their birds like wishing they had.


very true!


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## Flapdoodle

This is for rackerman, mtripOH, and Josepe. I was hopeing to get a little feedback from the forum for them as well as for me. 

Two options:

#1 I will vaccinate your bird for pox now. It will be contagious to non-vaccinated birds for around six weeks. During the six weeks it will be in an individual breeding cage. Around the 2nd week in December after the pox blister/scab falls off. I will mail him to you. 

#2 Wait another two weeks if no other birds show signs of pox I will ship them. 

There is some risk to option #2 of spreading pox to the other birds in your lofts. My plan with the birds I am keeping is to wait to vaccinate until I see it in a second bird. 

COV 32 does not need the vaccine he already has pox. COV 33 probably makes sense to vaccinate him and ship them both back in six weeks or so. 

Josepe and mtripOH what do you want me to do? Option #1 or #2


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## rackerman

*I am really confused..*


Flapdoodle said:


> This is for rackerman, mtripOH, and Josepe. I was hopeing to get a little feedback from the forum for them as well as for me.
> 
> Two options:
> 
> #1 I will vaccinate your bird for pox now. It will be contagious to non-vaccinated birds for around six weeks. During the six weeks it will be in an individual breeding cage. Around the 2nd week in December after the pox blister/scab falls off. I will mail him to you.
> 
> #2 Wait another two weeks if no other birds show signs of pox I will ship them.
> 
> There is some risk to option #2 of spreading pox to the other birds in your lofts. My plan with the birds I am keeping is to wait to vaccinate until I see it in a second bird.
> 
> COV 32 does not need the vaccine he already has pox. COV 33 probably makes sense to vaccinate him and ship them both back in six weeks or so.
> 
> Josepe and mtripOH what do you want me to do? Option #1 or #2


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## Flapdoodle

rackerman said:


> *I am really confused..*


I am sorry for being confusing. I meant hoping not "hopeing". Does that clear it up? 


OK I will vaccinate COV 33, rackerman both your birds should be able to go home in six weeks or so. mtripOH and Josepe let me know what you want done with COV 26 and GFTG 105. I will vaccinate on Saturday so please let me know by then.


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## rackerman

*Thanks Tom, thats what I wanted to hear!! Your a great guy*


Flapdoodle said:


> I am sorry for being confusing. I meant hoping not "hopeing". Does that clear it up?
> 
> 
> OK I will vaccinate COV 33, rackerman both your birds should be able to go home in six weeks or so. mtripOH and Josepe let me know what you want done with COV 26 and GFTG 105. I will vaccinate on Saturday so please let me know by then.


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## rackerman

*Here is the 2011 PT Classic Trophy

Thanks Walt...*


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## mtripOH

Flapdoodle;620502
mtripOH and Josepe let me know what you want done with COV 26 and GFTG 105. I will vaccinate on Saturday so please let me know by then.[/QUOTE said:


> Tom, I will go with option 1. Thank you very much. I do have a few questions however. Is shipping at that time hard on the birds? I am sure they get stressed as it is but will it be too cold? Just wondering. The vaccine gives them a pox blister? Kind of like some vaccination I had to get when I was a kid and it was a big no-no to knock the scab off? I dont even think kids get that vaccine anymore...am I showing my age


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## MaryOfExeter

Yes, pox vaccines are live. It gives them a small case of pox, which once they get over it, they'll be resistant to it. Kinda like chickenpox when we were kids.


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## mtripOH

rackerman said:


> *Here is the 2011 PT Classic Trophy
> 
> Thanks Walt...*


 Russ, that is one fine trophy!! You will need to post a pic of COV33 next to it when he gets home!


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## rackerman

*Oh, I will and can't wait to do it! Tom, is going to treat him and keep both of them for awhile. So, it will probably be in December. I hate to wait that long, but I want them coming to me healthy and thats what Tom is going to do for me.
Oh, I asked Tom if he knew if they where male and females, he said he believe's them both to be males. Thats great for me since I have more females than males. I really need to figure out who I will be mating them with?? That's a tough one! 
That video you sent on Cov26 was sweet*


mtripOH said:


> Russ, that is one fine trophy!! You will need to post a pic of COV33 next to it when he gets home!


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## rackerman

Tom, 
Could you PM me a pick of Cov33, when you get a chance? I'd like to frame it and put it next to the Throphy.


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## rackerman

I am thinking of changing my loft name to Coveys Loft. What do you all think? I was also thinking Blue Bombers Loft


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## Crazy Pete

rackerman what is your loft name now?
Dave


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## rackerman

*Racermans Loft. I want to change it now*


Crazy Pete said:


> rackerman what is your loft name now?
> Dave


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## Crazy Pete

In that case I like Blue Bombers Loft. The name of a loft has to have that some thing, if you want people to take you serious.


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## drifter

rackerman said:


> Tom,
> Could you PM me a pick of Cov33, when you get a chance? I'd like to frame it and put it next to the Throphy.


Hey, I bet you are anxious to see what your bird really looks like, since you've never even seen it. It's going to be interesting to see what kind of birds you are going to produce from COV 33. I'm hoping to ambush you and everyone else in 2012. This coming from a rank amateur who has never entered a race.


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## rackerman

*Dave, I think your right, so I'm going to change it to Blue Bombers Loft*


Crazy Pete said:


> In that case I like Blue Bombers Loft. The name of a loft has to have that some thing, if you want people to take you serious.


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## Josepe

The ones who sent PM's to me please resend them,my box was full.Will be gone for most of the day but will be back on later.


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## Josepe

Tom,
This will be one of a couple of my posts.As I answered in your PM vacinate 105 ond hold til it's over(another one for your mistake list eh?)Then ship the bird back to me.
And a Reminder:[You still need to post the print out from your clock,,just to show all members that it was an honest race.When you clock birds for your club do you just write down the times and take them to the club and they accept that?


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## Josepe

Tom,
You are about a poor excuse for someone who's suppose to be an Experienced handler.How could someone who with experience make the screw ups and poor decisions you've made? Full plate or no full plate you also had the Responsablity to do things right and make common sense decisions to all the people that sent you birds from all over the Country and trusted you to do so.And I'm not the only member that has these thoughts,but probably the only one who's willing,and ready to post them.And there's been PM's exchanged with some members that's stated if you were doing this Classic next year they would definately not send birds.Now you say you forgot to vaccinate(Which you posted before it was being done on JULY 4TH).The same as last year you were going to do This and you were going to do That,but once you got the birds you pretty well just did what You Wanted.


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## Josepe

And for all you Tom Fans:Yous all need to go back to the very beginning post of the PT Classic thread and read Every post up to the present(I have Three times) And see all the Inconsistencies of what was Going to be done and what was Actually Done.Some of yous members are too Nieve,but myself and some others aren't in that catagory.And a follow up to the Tom's Good Deed List here's one of Not So Good Deeds:
*Said vaccinated weekend of July 4th, now says did not vaccinate.
*Lack of communications
*Lack of communications got worse!
*Asked to post print outs each week... did not
*Asked for full combine/club results each week showing position of ALL birds... nope
*Began training 10 days before first race (other flyers began 2 months before 1st race)
*Did this last year, knew what was involved & expected; if he can't handle it, should not have done it.(someone else offered to do it this yr & he told them no)
*Yes, commitment to family, BUT you commited to 40+ members also. 
*Used the "wife pregnant" excuse in very beginning... knew wife was pregnant before he accepted birds. 
*Loft was not complete when birds were accepted.
*Inconsistant race results (handful of birds did not clock because clock had no power, then birds are marked late.)
*Put "strays" in priority over members birds on a few races. Strays should not have flown at all!
*We all sent birds for a One Loft Race, after all birds were in loft, then he wanted votes to fly as club race. Birds were sent to fly against PT member birds, not against top flyers in his area.
*It was noted by other member that while we are waiting for results, he is up at the other flyers "party" helping out.(Sierra Ranch races)
*Wanted champion loft, had a 90% loss on birds! 
*Well fed birds before basketing! 
*Spent more time re-arranging things on the inventory sheet, sometimes up to 4x a day, than actually working with birds.


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## kbraden




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## Josepe

And no I didn't send my own birds, Randy Hill sent them for me(my breeeders were late breeding),which is beside the point,the birds in the race were Mine.
And another point(Experienced handler)If some wouldn't have brought up the Moult subject those birds would've all be sent in the moult.Not until it started being suggested by some members was any birds held back because of moulting.I'm sure some(not all) will not agree with my posts,but I call em' like I see em".But read All the posts from the Beginning to the end,it's there to see.


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## Matt Bell

Wow, you are about a poor excuse for a sportsman. You want the club results so bad look on the AU website. You didn't pay for a one loft race, you knew how it was run the year before, and it was stated by Tom himself that he wanted to win Champion loft. How are ya gonna win Champion loft if you fly it as a one loft race, eh? Why do you need to know when the last bird was clocked? It was LAST, good enough for me. Didn't even make the club sheet, how would it change the results in the loft? Did you think about anything you wrote? Now, all that said, if Tom was collecting $1000 per bird like the one loft events you think this should be, then heck yes he should do all you said, fact is Tom lost money on this and knew he would. He probably lost money just moving and working on the loft to make it BETTER than what it was last year. Go read the thread from last year and you would know all this and more. Just another big shot over the internet acting tough. You run a one loft race and you can start to think you know what you are talking about. I have helped run one before and I tell you what its not all peaches and cream like you think it should be. 90% loss rate, well maybe but consider the birds that were sent, some were half feral, some were way over age to be sent to the race to start with. People sending in birds that they don't even race themselves and you expect them to stick in that tough of a course? You have got to be kidding. Started training 10 days before the races? Where did that come from, its not accurate not even close. Throw it all on Tom if you want, he will take the blame because thats the type of guy he is, but if you want to be honest about it a lot of the blame should go elsewhere.


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## Matt Bell

Josepe said:


> And no I didn't send my own birds, Randy Hill sent them for me*(my breeeders were late breeding),*which is beside the point,the birds in the race were Mine.
> And another point(Experienced handler)If some wouldn't have brought up the Moult subject those birds would've all be sent in the moult.Not until it started being suggested by some members was any birds held back because of moulting.I'm sure some(not all) will not agree with my posts,but I call em' like I see em".But read All the posts from the Beginning to the end,it's there to see.


Wow, couldn't even get the birds to breed? In Maryland? You are twice Tom's age and obviously much more experienced than he but you couldn't even get your birds to breed on time. Heck thats all pigeons do is breed. Surely you know it takes about 10 days after mating to lay, and 18 days to hatch, and 28 days to wean to ship....hmmm Tom gave shipping dates and you couldn't figure out when to pair them in order to get your own babies? Wow, just wow.


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## Crazy Pete

There for a minute I thought sky tex was back. lol
Dave

Matt you may be from Tx but that was not directed at you.


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## MaryOfExeter

Maybe Tom meant he was vaccinating for PMV on the 4th of July, not pox.


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## Josepe

Matt,
If you didn't have any birds in the race,or even if you had, get back up on your perch and wait for your peanuts.
I was referring just to the PT Birds with the print out.And I accept the results and standings and congradulated the winners,but there should be an official clocking print out from Tom's clock for the PT Birds.Nothing unsportsman at all.Now get some water to wash them peanuts down and roost for the evening.
I've said what I've had to say and will not respond to any more posts,but will respond PM's


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## Matt Bell

MaryOfExeter said:


> *Maybe Tom meant he was vaccinating for PMV on the 4th of July, not pox*.


Wait, what you mean there is more than one vaccination that can be given to pigeons? Its not a one shot fix all thing? And giving the pox vaccine is the same thing as the birds getting pox to start with? Surely Josepe knew all of this in his infinite wisdom about pigeons!


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## kbraden

Matt, I for one would have liked weekly printouts, and I asked for them a few times, but never saw them post. I entered some babies from a new breeding pair and wanted to see what they were made of. They didn't come in top 20 or so therefore won't appear on AU listings, but it would have been nice to see their numbers & flight info, even if they were dead last. Plus the chain of events from last years fiascle, does not relate to this years event.


----------



## Matt Bell

kbraden said:


> Matt, I for one would have liked weekly printouts, and I asked for them a few times, but never saw them post. I entered some babies from a new breeding pair and wanted to see what they were made of. They didn't come in top 20 or so therefore won't appear on AU listings, but it would have been nice to see their numbers & flight info, even if they were dead last. Plus the chain of events from last years fiascle, does not relate to this years event.


Well I guess you have a different way of evaluating breeding pairs than most. If they can't make the sheet they aren't any good in most people's opinions.


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## kbraden

Matt Bell said:


> Well I guess you have a different way of evaluating breeding pairs than most. If they can't make the sheet they aren't any good in most people's opinions.


Doesn't matter whether they made the sheet or not, I am entitled to know the details. One of my birds made it out to 300 miles, would have been nice to see some info prior to that! 
As for evaluating pairs, LOL, this was a tester for me, like it was for others who entered (which is something you didn't do) My best babies didn't go to this race, I sent them some where else


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## Matt Bell

Of course, yet you expected the donkeys to run like the thoroughbreds? Doesn't make sense.


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## kbraden

Wow, you are a piece of work. It is not a crime to ask for results. Doesn't matter why I asked for them, or why I want to see them. It really is no business of yours whether I want to see them or not. It had nothing to do with future breeding or any other reason. I don't give a rats a$$ if it makes sense to you, I don't even know you. I just wanted to know out of blatant curiosity where the bird stood with 200 other birds.


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## Crazy Pete

I have to agree I would want to know where my birds stood, well if I had birds left.
Dave


----------



## Matt Bell

Here is the deal though, after the top 20% or so the club readings aren't accurate anyway because people stop clocking. There may very well be birds home that weren't clocked, and they weren't clocked for a reason, that being they were late. So thats all that needs to be known, they came home but were late. I don't see what else needs to be known. Its the Auburn RPC on the AU database, all the results are there, just got to take the 30 seconds to go and look it up, same amount of time it takes to check the forum but then that would be one less thing to complain about.


----------



## kbraden

Matt Bell said:


> Here is the deal though, after the top 20% or so the club readings aren't accurate anyway because people stop clocking. There may very well be birds home that weren't clocked, and they weren't clocked for a reason, that being they were late. So thats all that needs to be known, they came home but were late. I don't see what else needs to be known. * Its the Auburn RPC on the AU database*, all the results are there, just got to take the 30 seconds to go and look it up, same amount of time it takes to check the forum but then that would be one less thing to complain about.


No ****! My birds were flying with them all season, you really think I didn't know who they flew with?


----------



## Josepe

Mistake,the one loft subject shouldn't have been on that list.
I've said what I've had to say and the posts are there to read and make your own judgements,CASE CLOSED.Will be gone for another day,will answer any PM's when I return.


----------



## conditionfreak

It is no secret that Tom was "not into this years event". He stated so more than once. He commented that he wished he had not committed himself to do this.

Yet he did volunteer and committed when no one else did (except me), and in my opinion, would. He also instituted this event on his own two years ago, and has been the ONLY one to conduct this event thus far. I offered to hold the event for the 2011 season (I was the only one to do so), and Tom did not "tell me no", as he can not tell me no. He just conversed with me privately and said he would like to hold it for a second time if I didn't mind. I did not mind (for reasons such as this current conversation, and other reasons), and wholeheartedly let him handle it a second time. I was actually very relieved he wanted to do it again, because it is obviously a burden. A burden of time and money and would surely please many and not please many. It is a no win situation actually. Someone whose bird never comes home from the first 3 mile toss, will "assume" that Tom did something wrong.

This event would not exist if not for Tom.

Tom has spent a LOT OF MONEY out of his pocket, conducting this event. He even is paying the shipping to have the winning bird sent back to its owner. I could mention many things he has spent money out of his pocket on. But y'all should be able to figure most of them out on your own.

90% losses are not uncommon. Many in my combine have had such results on certain years. Some even worse. Good flyers with good birds. I entered the Buckeye Challenge in its inaugural year and the losses in that one loft race were 260 birds out of 266 entries. It cost me $175.00 per bird if I remember correctly, and my birds got lost in the first week of training. Yet this year, one of my breedings won the PT Classic event and two others "survived", which is more than many did. So, it shows that my birds are somewhat adequate, I would say. I simply did not enter that event again. Simple enough. I did not rant and rave about it. It is history and a lesson learned.

I did not go back and read the entire thread again. But my recollection is that Tom vacinated for PMV and nothing else.

The truth is, Tom volunteered to hold this event in 2011, with the best of intentions. But his life became more burdensome than he anticipated. Yet he continued on and perserveered, fulfilling his commitment.

Did he lack enthusiam? For sure. Did he make some mis-steps and mistakes. Yes. Did he insinuate or promise things he did not deliver. Yes.

But he forced himself to do an adequate job at it. It was not a perfect job, nor even a great job. But it was a decent job. Bordering on being a good job.

I have some complaints of my own, as almost everyone who participated did, I think. But not enough to openly criticize Tom on this thread. I contacted him via PM with my concerns and he thanked me for bringing things to his attention, and he addressed those concerns.

I don't know you from Adam. But it is low class to criticize someone in public like this. Additionally, posting this statement: "You still need to post the print out from your clock,,just to show all members that it was an honest race is, IMO, an insinuation of an area that is somewhere that I don't think any of us wants to go or believes. Well....anyone except maybe you and the shill "born to race". This "insinuation" is very bothersome to me, given that this is basically a "free and for fun" event. I will admit that there was a $20 entry fee to help with the expenses, but involved NO prize money. The trophy was and is provided by me, free of charge and expense.

If you don't like how something is handled, don't participate with that individual again. It is not like you are out a bunch of money, nor time and effort. You didn't even breed any birds for this event.

You Josepe, have entered next years event, which I am holding, and I already made it perfectly clear that I do not vacinate for ANYTHING. Yet you entered. Any of us could have vacinated our birds for whatever we wanted, prior to sending them to Tom.

I will tell y'all the truth. The theme of the last half dozen or so pages of this thread, has me rethinking my offer to hold the next event.

Why should I? Can anyone give me a logical or legitimate reason for putting myself through this kind of stuff next year? It will certainly cause me to receive criticism from several. Unless I am flawless (I assure you, that will NEVER happen). And even then....

If there is a pigeon racer "here", who has not made any mistakes EVERY YEAR in their pigeon racing, please write a book. I will buy a copy.

I will tell a small story. When I was a Staff Sergeant in the USMC, every six months or so, my Commanding Officer had to fill out a Performance Evaluation of me. The last one he completed before I was discharged, had me receiving all "10's" on my evaluation. The Commandant of the Marine Corps returned my performance evaluation back to my commanding officer and instructed him that "unless this Marine can walk on water, lower some of these scores". My commanding officer lowered one and returned it. He wrote on the report that "SSGT Thomas has only one flaw. He tries to please everyone and that just can not be done".

I have never forgot those words of wisdom from my commanding officer. It just can not be done. No matter what Tom could or did do. Someone here would find fault with it. If he did the first training toss from 3 miles, someone would say that the first toss should have been from his front yard. If he did the first toss from his front yard, someone here would say that he should have done the first toss from 3 miles. It goes on and on like that.

Tom did a decent handling of this event. Many enjoyed it. Some did not. It is the same in every racing club in the country.

How about we talk about hopes and plans for next years event, and accept what occurred in this years event as being history. Tom is not going to hold this event again. Thus, beating this dead horse is not called for. It is over, gone, done and finished. Move on, I say.


----------



## Flapdoodle

Josepe, I think these are the only posts you addressed to me.



Josepe said:


> Tom,
> This will be one of a couple of my posts.As I answered in your PM vacinate 105 ond hold til it's over(another one for your mistake list eh?)Then ship the bird back to me.
> And a Reminder:[You still need to post the print out from your clock,,just to show all members that it was an honest race.When you clock birds for your club do you just write down the times and take them to the club and they accept that?


I did get your PM. I will vaccinate your bird for pox and hold until it clears. You want a clock print out from which race, the last one? Unfortunately your bird did not trap in from the last race and so will not show on the print out. Regardless of that I will get a copy posted for you. 



Josepe said:


> Tom,
> You are about a poor excuse for someone who's suppose to be an Experienced handler.How could someone who with experience make the screw ups and poor decisions you've made? Full plate or no full plate you also had the Responsablity to do things right and make common sense decisions to all the people that sent you birds from all over the Country and trusted you to do so.And I'm not the only member that has these thoughts,but probably the only one who's willing,and ready to post them.And there's been PM's exchanged with some members that's stated if you were doing this Classic next year they would definately not send birds.Now you say you forgot to vaccinate(Which you posted before it was being done on JULY 4TH).The same as last year you were going to do This and you were going to do That,but once you got the birds you pretty well just did what You Wanted.


Welcome to pigeon racing. Most people I know that race want to win. They plan for it, think about it, dream about it. It starts sometime between the middle of YB (if they are getting killed) to maybe sometime the middle of October. From that time, October or November until the races start in August life happens. Sometimes things work out great you have a great season. Other times it is a train wreck. Most folks don't have their train wrecks posted for the masses to see. If you race for any length of time your going to have a few of them. Hopefully once in a while you get a little sunshine. Coming off a train wreck, I am already planning, thinking, and dreaming for a great year next year. I wish the fans as well as you and the other "haters" the best and hope your dreams for next year all work out.


----------



## born to race

Josepe said:


> And for all you Tom Fans:Yous all need to go back to the very beginning post of the PT Classic thread and read Every post up to the present(I have Three times) And see all the Inconsistencies of what was Going to be done and what was Actually Done.Some of yous members are too Nieve,but myself and some others aren't in that catagory.And a follow up to the Tom's Good Deed List here's one of Not So Good Deeds:
> *Said vaccinated weekend of July 4th, now says did not vaccinate.
> *Lack of communications
> *Lack of communications got worse!
> *Asked to post print outs each week... did not
> *Asked for full combine/club results each week showing position of ALL birds... nope
> *Began training 10 days before first race (other flyers began 2 months before 1st race)
> *Did this last year, knew what was involved & expected; if he can't handle it, should not have done it.(someone else offered to do it this yr & he told them no)
> *Yes, commitment to family, BUT you commited to 40+ members also.
> *Used the "wife pregnant" excuse in very beginning... knew wife was pregnant before he accepted birds.
> *Loft was not complete when birds were accepted.
> *Inconsistant race results (handful of birds did not clock because clock had no power, then birds are marked late.)
> *Put "strays" in priority over members birds on a few races. Strays should not have flown at all!
> *We all sent birds for a One Loft Race, after all birds were in loft, then he wanted votes to fly as club race. Birds were sent to fly against PT member birds, not against top flyers in his area.
> *It was noted by other member that while we are waiting for results, he is up at the other flyers "party" helping out.(Sierra Ranch races)
> *Wanted champion loft, had a 90% loss on birds!
> *Well fed birds before basketing!
> *Spent more time re-arranging things on the inventory sheet, sometimes up to 4x a day, than actually working with birds.


THANK YOU VERY MUCH!
THANKS FOR BEING HONEST.NOT LIKE SOME PEOPLE WHO KEEPS ON KISSING TOM'S BEHIND.


----------



## Crazy Pete

Cf that was very well put. Thank you
Dave


----------



## rackerman

*I agree with dave completely!! Good job Walt.

I hope you will still hold the event next year!! I will be happy, win or lose. Just to be a part of it will make me happy

*


Crazy Pete said:


> Cf that was very well put. Thank you
> Dave


----------



## SouthTown Racers

Josepe said:


> Mistake,the one loft subject shouldn't have been on that list.
> I've said what I've had to say and the posts are there to read and make your own judgements,CASE CLOSED.Will be gone for another day,will answer any PM's when I return.


Hey Josepe, I have an idea.....shut up!! Im sooo tired of reading your whining and complaining it makes me sick!! You would think your 60+ years on this earth would have taught you some patience!! You are like a 3 yr old and a spoiled one at that. If you are this unhappy, go put your efforts into something else, like getting your birds to breed on time. Your posts throughout this thread have made this race (which was JUST FOR FUN) un bearable to read. If you are this serious about competing and racing one loft events, why dont you breed some birds and put up the big $$ for one of the big races, and stop having such a negatve effect on something that was supposed to be for FUN!!!! Joesepe, you should be thanking Tom because it looks like he gave you something to do for 6 months!!

It sounds to me like Tom had one of those disaster seasons, and unfortunatly we were all along for the ride. Things didnt go perfect, but we have all learned from it. I hope next year will be better and I hope Tom can now relax and enjoy his family.

Maybe this thread should be closed, put this season to bed and start talking about 2012


----------



## rpalmer

SouthTown Racers said:


> Maybe this thread should be closed, put this season to bed and start talking about 2012


I second this motion.


----------



## drifter

Why should it be shut down, it's a First Amendment right. It's called freedom of speech. If you don't like the program then change the channel.


----------



## rackerman

This is my last post here till I have Cov33, so I can post him and the Trophy, unless I just do it in a new thread. Time to move on..


----------



## conditionfreak

I just tried "self censorship". It worked beautifully.


----------



## SouthTown Racers

conditionfreak said:


> I just tried "self censorship". It worked beautifully.


I was practicing that all season, but couldn't take it anymore!


----------



## Alamo

ConditionFreak....I as you,do not innoculate my birds for anything....But I would like to give you a little advice....Here`s a little story,but very truthfull....
One of the best YB lofts in the Central Jersey Combine(Patti Loft),a couple of years ago,had about 105 YB`s come to him for "Handling" in the IF race....Rich himself raises a pretty large amount to fly,because of all the many Futurity money races...As from his mouth,he told me that he never had such a HARD time keeping all those OOA IF birds healthy...This man is a top flite pigeon guy....He has won more then once, BIG All-American for the USA in the 200 lofts + Catagory....The races probally average 2,500 birds per race....When a guy this talented,is having a hard time keeping OOA birds healthy,even though they were given their PMV & Pox shots etc...If I was going to handle even 25/30 birds from all over the USA,I would for the 1st time give these birds those shots....I think it is a must,in this instance to do so....That`s not even, to what you will have to do with regular MED`s also....Beleive me,I don`t beleive in the PMV & POX shots...But in this case,with all these PT birds, from all over the country,I would do it....Maybe you should rethink this process out....Every bird,from every loft,will bring in at least ONE germ into YOUR loft,that all the other lofts do not have...Compound that by 70/80 birds,and it`s a bag of trouble in itself...In any case,I wish you well...I wish I was located close to you...If I did,I would help you out with the PT birds....Best regards,Alamo


----------



## boneyrajan.k

nice info


----------



## conditionfreak

Truth be told. I have been thinking along those lines lately. I am not a fan of innoculations, but am worried. The chances of me receiving birds from the far reaches of the country, without some of them bringing problems with them, are slim and none, and slim left town.

I am afraid of being acussed of "causing" the problem with vaccinating. I am afraid of being blamed for a problem by not vaccinating. I would have to vacinate for PMV and POX at the minimum. It will knock the birds down and since I would be receiving birds over a period of time, most likely could not be accomplished all at once. 

Ideally, each person sending birds should vacinate their birds prior to them being sent to me. But I know that will not happen, nor work.

So....bottom line is I am resigning myself to the thought that I will have to vaccinate. I have been "re-thinking" it for awhile now. I am looking into the effectiveness of non-injectable vaccines. I am looking it up on the internet. I have heard of bad outcomes with needles and pigeons.

If I vaccinate, I have another flier who is experienced in doing it and has offered to help in doing it.

I am also ordering the various meds needed to take care of so many birds. Wormers, Baytril, etc.

This is going to be a daunting task for me. I ain't a spring chicken and I have so many birds of my own already.

But I will do my best.

On a side note. Several members of my club are bugging me to let them in on the event. But they are not members of this forum and I have told them no. They aint too happy about the "no".

Months away and already disappointing people.


----------



## kbraden

I was talking to an experienced handler a few weeks ago. He has been successfully working with pigeons for over 40 years. He was saying that birds may not have a disease or be ill when they arrive to a loft, they get it once they are there. Reason being, each bird is immune to the bacteria in its own loft. When you introduce that bird to a different bacteria, it is not immune to it and will show signs of illness. Same for the existing birds in a loft, if you introduce a newcomer, it brings in its own strain of bacteria that the existing birds aren't used to either. So all birds from different lofts may be healthy in their own lofts, it is when you mix all the different bacteria together that birds get ill. 
Wow, did that make sense to anyone? LOL


----------



## Flapdoodle

*Club Results*

I few wanted to see club results... Here is a link to each race every week. I am missing Valmy. I cannot seem to find the results for that week. The files are all named with a three-letter abbreviation for the release city. Also included is the final results for champ loft, ave speed, etc. I tried to open it up under a different Google account and it works. You need to have two windows open, one logged in to your Google account the other here in the forum. Then click the link in the forum and it should open access to the race reports.

FER
LOV
IML
WIN
VAL ? missing results
CAR
BAT
ELK

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B_Xp0Jk-p0iTYzZkNmExODgtY2QyZC00Yzc2LTgxOGYtYTk3ZDRmM2NjMjlm


----------



## Flapdoodle

kbraden said:


> I was talking to an experienced handler a few weeks ago. He has been successfully working with pigeons for over 40 years. He was saying that birds may not have a disease or be ill when they arrive to a loft, they get it once they are there. Reason being, each bird is immune to the bacteria in its own loft. When you introduce that bird to a different bacteria, it is not immune to it and will show signs of illness. Same for the existing birds in a loft, if you introduce a newcomer, it brings in its own strain of bacteria that the existing birds aren't used to either. So all birds from different lofts may be healthy in their own lofts, it is when you mix all the different bacteria together that birds get ill.
> Wow, did that make sense to anyone? LOL


I think it makes sense. With the melting pot of bacteria Walt will have it is tough to keep them healthy. The problem is the vaccinated Walt is talking about specifically PMV and POX does nothing to solve the problem of bacteria infections, they are both viruses. 

It might make sense to look into the Sal Bac vaccine and find a way to treat for ecoli, something that can be given on a regular basis. The letting the birds develop natural immunity I don’t think applies when you have a couple of birds from 40 different lofts.


----------



## Flapdoodle

conditionfreak said:


> Truth be told. I have been thinking along those lines lately. I am not a fan of innoculations, but am worried. The chances of me receiving birds from the far reaches of the country, without some of them bringing problems with them, are slim and none, and slim left town.
> 
> I am afraid of being acussed of "causing" the problem with vaccinating. I am afraid of being blamed for a problem by not vaccinating. I would have to vacinate for PMV and POX at the minimum. It will knock the birds down and since I would be receiving birds over a period of time, most likely could not be accomplished all at once.
> 
> Ideally, each person sending birds should vacinate their birds prior to them being sent to me. But I know that will not happen, nor work.
> 
> So....bottom line is I am resigning myself to the thought that I will have to vaccinate. I have been "re-thinking" it for awhile now. I am looking into the effectiveness of non-injectable vaccines. I am looking it up on the internet. I have heard of bad outcomes with needles and pigeons.
> 
> If I vaccinate, I have another flier who is experienced in doing it and has offered to help in doing it.
> 
> I am also ordering the various meds needed to take care of so many birds. Wormers, Baytril, etc.......


I think the issue of vaccinated the birds as they come in could work for PMV and Sal Bac, my worry would be the birds are already under a pretty good amount of stress when you get them. I am not sure if it makes more sense to wait a few weeks after arrival or not. I wonder about the shelf life of the Pox vaccine. Two part mix, after you mix is it good for a couple of weeks or a day... I don't know. 

Regardless I think all three would be a good idea. I have never given Sal Bac but would try if I was going to do this again. PMV and Pox are pretty much a no brainer. I bought both vaccines twice this year. The first time around the small box sat on the porch for day before we noticed it was delivered. The front door is black and faces south with a black metal threshold. It is hot enough to fry an egg (or give a kid a pretty good burn if they step on it). By the time I got the box opened the ice block was melted and everything was hot so I re-ordered both vaccines. 

My advice would be vaccinate as soon as you get all the birds. I waited to long. It got to be to close to racing and training the middle of July. I made the decision to not Pox and just PMV. The guy I train with does neither, birds can spread pox up to six weeks after the vaccine. I decided it would be best to not pox my birds being that he was going to be doing most of our training.


----------



## conditionfreak

Almost sounds like, damned if I do and damned if I don't.

So....no training with others during the first six weeks after after vaccinating.

and

Birds comming to me will bring things my birds are not immume to

and

My birds will transmit things to incoming birds that the incoming birds will not be immune to.

hmmm....I actually knew all of this already. But reading it puts it into a different perspective. The good news is, I will be treating this PT Classic as my full time job for the duration of it. I suspect it will be the last PT Classic and I want to do the best I can at it.

Hopefully I can get a bigger loft built in time. I am a big believer that the more space, the less health concerns.

My old lady ain't gonna be happy though.


----------



## Flapdoodle

conditionfreak said:


> ..........My old lady ain't gonna be happy though. ...........


You doing this race in 2012 makes my "old lady" very very happy... If I am not careful that could be #7.


----------



## kbraden

Flapdoodle said:


> You doing this race in 2012 makes my "old lady" very very happy... If I am not careful that could be #7.


If you keep having kids, you soon have your very own soccer team!

p.s. thanks for posting all the results


----------



## rpalmer

It's obvious that too many of you don't vaccinate and have no clue. The owner or shipper of a YB to a one loft race can not vaccinate for PMV.

While anyone could give one injection for PMV, birds getting their first vaccination require two injections. The second one 4 to 6 weeks after the first. So if you give the first shot at 4 weeks and wait the minimum of 4 weeks, you now have a bird that is 8 weeks old or 60 days. Too old to ship now.

Since the Pox vaccine is live it puts the birds out or training for a minimum of 6 weeks. This vaccine is best given after all the race birds are at the loft and with the second PMV shot.

Unless you have a whole lot of room in a refrigerator, and want to prepare the syringes for one dose only, you can not inoculate the birds as they arrive without considerable waste of the vaccine.

Good luck.


----------



## Crazy Pete

It's obvious that too many of you don't vaccinate and have no clue. The owner or shipper of a YB to a one loft race can not vaccinate for PMV.

While anyone could give one injection for PMV, birds getting their first vaccination require two injections. The second one 4 to 6 weeks after the first. So if you give the first shot at 4 weeks and wait the minimum of 4 weeks, you now have a bird that is 8 weeks old or 60 days. Too old to ship now.



conditionfreak said that he does not vaccinate or medicate so the way I see it the first shot for PMV was better than no shot at all. I think evey one should give the first shot for PMV befor shiping. So how do you think we should do this.
Dave


----------



## Josepe

TO CLEAR UP A POINT.I am Not questioning the legatimacy of the winner(s) or the combine standings.I congratulated the winner and also you Walt for raising great flying birds.I see no problem and don't know why anyone else would of Tom posting a printout from his clock showing how the PT birds did against each other just like he did after the 5th race,it shows the dates and exact times the birds clocked,which I'll post a copy below.I'm sure most of you like to see how the birds did after a race. 
Walt please remove my reservation for the your race next year.Good luck with it and I'm sure things will be done better then this one.
SouthTown you should get back up on your perch also and wait on your peanuts.You're just a young Squab who isn't old enough to have learned alot in life yet.And maybe you should raise some birds to enter in the big $$$ races.
You might do good in your local club and combine but didn't show much in this one against birds from all over the Country.How'd you do in the Sierra Classic?
Tom the link you posted to the club results doesn't work and not was I was talking about anyhow.Below is what I was referring to,only for the last race.
Race #5 
A RaceB Race 

.
Clocking PigeonRingNumber PigeonArrivalDatetime PigeonColor 
.
1 AU11COV 0026 9/24/11 13:50 BC 
.
2 AU11GFTG 0105 9/24/11 14:55 BB 
.
3 AU11LL 1006 9/24/11 14:55 RC 
.
4 AU11KEYH 0424 9/24/11 14:55 BKSP 
.
5 AU11AVC 1108 9/24/11 15:26 BB 
.
6 AU11AUB 0067 9/24/11 16:08 BC 
.
7 AU11COV 0033 9/24/11 16:21 BB 
.
8 AU11JEDD 5006 9/24/11 18:07 BB 
.
9 AU11JEDD 5010 9/25/11 11:05 BB 
.
10 AU11SPO 0706 1/1/0001 12:00:00 AM BBSP 
.
11 AU11ARPU 19252 1/1/0001 12:00:00 AM DC 
.
12 AU11LNC 11314 1/1/0001 12:00:00 AM BC 
.
13 AU11OCAL 1082 1/1/0001 12:00:00 AM BC 
.
14 AU11ARPU 21600 1/1/0001 12:00:00 AM BC
Case Closed and my last post on this subject.You're welcome Tom as I've always tried to be honest and also tell it like I see it.


----------



## Crazy Pete

Oh sure quit now how do I get a chance to get my $$ back. lol
Dave


----------



## Flapdoodle

Josepe said:


> TO CLEAR UP A POINT.I am Not questioning the legatimacy of the winner(s) or the combine standings.........
> .........
> Tom the link you posted to the club results doesn't work and not was I was talking about anyhow.Below is what I was referring to,only for the last race.
> ...........


What are you questioning exactly? I am not sure what your looking for but here you go. I am pretty sure this is the same results posted on the spreadsheet. 

The club results should work if you follow the instructions in the post. Open up Google and log in on one window, minimize it, then open a different window go to the forum and click the link. 

Clocking	PigeonRingNumber	PigeonArrivalDatetime	PigeonColor
1 AU11KEYH 0424	10/15/2011 15:49	BKSP
2 AU11GFTG 0113	10/15/2011 16:21	BLK 
3 AU11AVC 1108	10/15/2011 16:29	BB 
4 AU11MTP 1442	10/15/2011 17:02	BB 
5 AU11ZEPP 0006	10/16/2011 7:40	BB 
6 AU11COV 0033	10/16/2011 8:33	BB 
7 AU11COV 32	10/16/2011 12:07	BB 
8 AU11AVC 1105	10/16/2011 17:19	BBWF
9 AU11CHAS 1510	10/17/2011 7:52	GRIZ
10 AU11LL 1006	1/1/0001 12:00:00 AM	RC 
11 AU11SD 0412	1/1/0001 12:00:00 AM	BBWF
12 IF11TRC 11473	1/1/0001 12:00:00 AM	RDSP
13 AU11COV 0026	1/1/0001 12:00:00 AM	BC 
14 AU11I 21582	1/1/0001 12:00:00 AM	BB 
15 IF11TRC 11464	1/1/0001 12:00:00 AM	BB 

Clocking	PigeonRingNumber	PigeonArrivalDatetime	PigeonColor
1 AU11AUB 0067	10/15/2011 17:32	BC 
2 AU11ARPU 19252	10/16/2011 10:37	DC 
3 AU11AUB 0201	10/16/2011 12:08	DC 
4 AU11ARPU 34698	10/16/2011 14:18	RC 
5 AU11JEDD 5010	1/1/0001 12:00:00 AM	BB 
6 AU11GFTG 0108	1/1/0001 12:00:00 AM	BC


----------



## Crazy Pete

Hey Flap don't worry what he wants he is just one of those guy that aint happy unless he can rock the boat.
Dave


----------



## Xueoo

Congrats to the winner and all the birds who made it through. 

Thanks Tom for taking this on again this year. I would like to send a couple birds to you to race next season if you'd take them. Or, maybe your training partner may want a couple.


----------



## SouthTown Racers

Josepe said:


> TO CLEAR UP A POINT.I am Not questioning the legatimacy of the winner(s) or the combine standings.I congratulated the winner and also you Walt for raising great flying birds.I see no problem and don't know why anyone else would of Tom posting a printout from his clock showing how the PT birds did against each other just like he did after the 5th race,it shows the dates and exact times the birds clocked,which I'll post a copy below.I'm sure most of you like to see how the birds did after a race.
> Walt please remove my reservation for the your race next year.Good luck with it and I'm sure things will be done better then this one.
> SouthTown you should get back up on your perch also and wait on your peanuts.You're just a young Squab who isn't old enough to have learned alot in life yet.And maybe you should raise some birds to enter in the big $$$ races.
> You might do good in your local club and combine but didn't show much in this one against birds from all over the Country.How'd you do in the Sierra Classic?
> Tom the link you posted to the club results doesn't work and not was I was talking about anyhow.Below is what I was referring to,only for the last race.
> Race #5
> A RaceB Race
> 
> .
> Clocking PigeonRingNumber PigeonArrivalDatetime PigeonColor
> .
> 1 AU11COV 0026 9/24/11 13:50 BC
> .
> 2 AU11GFTG 0105 9/24/11 14:55 BB
> .
> 3 AU11LL 1006 9/24/11 14:55 RC
> .
> 4 AU11KEYH 0424 9/24/11 14:55 BKSP
> .
> 5 AU11AVC 1108 9/24/11 15:26 BB
> .
> 6 AU11AUB 0067 9/24/11 16:08 BC
> .
> 7 AU11COV 0033 9/24/11 16:21 BB
> .
> 8 AU11JEDD 5006 9/24/11 18:07 BB
> .
> 9 AU11JEDD 5010 9/25/11 11:05 BB
> .
> 10 AU11SPO 0706 1/1/0001 12:00:00 AM BBSP
> .
> 11 AU11ARPU 19252 1/1/0001 12:00:00 AM DC
> .
> 12 AU11LNC 11314 1/1/0001 12:00:00 AM BC
> .
> 13 AU11OCAL 1082 1/1/0001 12:00:00 AM BC
> .
> 14 AU11ARPU 21600 1/1/0001 12:00:00 AM BC
> Case Closed and my last post on this subject.You're welcome Tom as I've always tried to be honest and also tell it like I see it.


Young squab?? Alright you old coot, lets place a little wager on next year! I will send some birds off a a proven pair rather than two young of off my race team!!!


----------



## Big T

Alamo said:


> ConditionFreak....I as you,do not innoculate my birds for anything....But I would like to give you a little advice....Here`s a little story,but very truthfull....
> One of the best YB lofts in the Central Jersey Combine(Patti Loft),a couple of years ago,had about 105 YB`s come to him for "Handling" in the IF race....Rich himself raises a pretty large amount to fly,because of all the many Futurity money races...As from his mouth,he told me that he never had such a HARD time keeping all those OOA IF birds healthy...This man is a top flite pigeon guy....He has won more then once, BIG All-American for the USA in the 200 lofts + Catagory....The races probally average 2,500 birds per race....When a guy this talented,is having a hard time keeping OOA birds healthy,even though they were given their PMV & Pox shots etc...If I was going to handle even 25/30 birds from all over the USA,I would for the 1st time give these birds those shots....I think it is a must,in this instance to do so....That`s not even, to what you will have to do with regular MED`s also....Beleive me,I don`t beleive in the PMV & POX shots...But in this case,with all these PT birds, from all over the country,I would do it....Maybe you should rethink this process out....Every bird,from every loft,will bring in at least ONE germ into YOUR loft,that all the other lofts do not have...Compound that by 70/80 birds,and it`s a bag of trouble in itself...In any case,I wish you well...I wish I was located close to you...If I did,I would help you out with the PT birds....Best regards,Alamo


Being an OLD Marine I'm sure you remember bootcamp and how all of us from around the country got the recruit crud due to the different viruses that was brought into the barracks from around the country. Your loft will experience the same thing.

Tony


----------



## Josepe

Tom,
What I was looking for was maybe 1006 clocked and you missed it,like you did Cov 26.The print out you posted from that last race shows he did clock (10th),came in with Cov 26.It's right there on the sheet.
Clocking PigeonRingNumber PigeonArrivalDatetime PigeonColor
1 AU11KEYH 0424 10/15/2011 15:49 BKSP
2 AU11GFTG 0113 10/15/2011 16:21 BLK 
3 AU11AVC 1108 10/15/2011 16:29 BB 
4 AU11MTP 1442 10/15/2011 17:02 BB 
5 AU11ZEPP 0006 10/16/2011 7:40 BB 
6 AU11COV 0033 10/16/2011 8:33 BB 
7 AU11COV 32 10/16/2011 12:07 BB 
8 AU11AVC 1105 10/16/2011 17:19 BBWF
9 AU11CHAS 1510 10/17/2011 7:52 GRIZ
10 AU11LL 1006 1/1/0001 12:00:00 AM RC 
11 AU11SD 0412 1/1/0001 12:00:00 AM BBWF
12 IF11TRC 11473 1/1/0001 12:00:00 AM RDSP
13 AU11COV 0026 1/1/0001 12:00:00 AM BC 
14 AU11I 21582 1/1/0001 12:00:00 AM BB 
15 IF11TRC 11464 1/1/0001 12:00:00 AM BB


----------



## Flapdoodle

Josepe said:


> Tom,
> What I was looking for was maybe 1006 clocked and you missed it,like you did Cov 26.The print out you posted from that last race shows he did clock (10th),came in with Cov 26.It's right there on the sheet.
> Clocking PigeonRingNumber PigeonArrivalDatetime PigeonColor
> 1 AU11KEYH 0424 10/15/2011 15:49 BKSP
> 2 AU11GFTG 0113 10/15/2011 16:21 BLK
> 3 AU11AVC 1108 10/15/2011 16:29 BB
> 4 AU11MTP 1442 10/15/2011 17:02 BB
> 5 AU11ZEPP 0006 10/16/2011 7:40 BB
> 6 AU11COV 0033 10/16/2011 8:33 BB
> 7 AU11COV 32 10/16/2011 12:07 BB
> 8 AU11AVC 1105 10/16/2011 17:19 BBWF
> 9 AU11CHAS 1510 10/17/2011 7:52 GRIZ
> 10 AU11LL 1006 1/1/0001 12:00:00 AM RC
> 11 AU11SD 0412 1/1/0001 12:00:00 AM BBWF
> 12 IF11TRC 11473 1/1/0001 12:00:00 AM RDSP
> 13 AU11COV 0026 1/1/0001 12:00:00 AM BC
> 14 AU11I 21582 1/1/0001 12:00:00 AM BB
> 15 IF11TRC 11464 1/1/0001 12:00:00 AM BB


I know you call it like you see it but sometimes you might be looking at it wrong. What month, day, year and time did your bird clock? Your bird and the four below it did not clock.


----------



## Josepe

Guess I'm not understanding it.You said my bird and the 4 below it did not clock.Cov 26 is the 3rd bird below mine which you said in a post on the 19th that Cov 26 clocked? I'm confused.

"Yesterday on my way out, I noticed two birds pacing back and forth on the settling cage. The trap is open so birds can get in. Obviously they were not ours as they didn't know how to use the trap to enter. When I came up they both took off. I checked the clock and sure enough, COV 26 clocked. I went through the birds this morning and he is in there! I will keep an eye out for the others."


----------



## Big T

Josepe said:


> Guess I'm not understanding it.You said my bird and the 4 below it did not clock.Cov 26 is the 3rd bird below mine which you said in a post on the 19th that Cov 26 clocked? I'm confused.
> 
> "Yesterday on my way out, I noticed two birds pacing back and forth on the settling cage. The trap is open so birds can get in. Obviously they were not ours as they didn't know how to use the trap to enter. When I came up they both took off. I checked the clock and sure enough, COV 26 clocked. I went through the birds this morning and he is in there! I will keep an eye out for the others."


the 1/1/0001 12:00:00 AM, same date same time for your bird and all the ones below it. That means none of those birds clock in.

Hope that helps,
Tony


----------



## SouthTown Racers

Josepe said:


> Guess I'm not understanding it.You said my bird and the 4 below it did not clock.Cov 26 is the 3rd bird below mine which you said in a post on the 19th that Cov 26 clocked? I'm confused.
> 
> "Yesterday on my way out, I noticed two birds pacing back and forth on the settling cage. The trap is open so birds can get in. Obviously they were not ours as they didn't know how to use the trap to enter. When I came up they both took off. I checked the clock and sure enough, COV 26 clocked. I went through the birds this morning and he is in there! I will keep an eye out for the others."


At the time cov26 came in, the race was probly over and he had his clock on training mode so it would let him know of any late arrivals.


----------



## Big T

kbraden said:


> If you keep having kids, you soon have your very own soccer team!
> 
> p.s. thanks for posting all the results


With six you gave up being careful!!! So after the first child, the second child is 100% increase, third 50%, fourth 33%, fifth 25%, sixth 20%. So a seventh child is just a small increase. So you go have some fun, you can pay for it later.


LOL Tony


----------



## Josepe

I understand now.Thanks.Wishful thinking I guess.


----------



## Flapdoodle

*Anyone have an M1?*

One of the things that the "haters" have harped on a few times is the fact that I had some birds in one of the races not clock because of a problem with the Atis top and the power supply. I know it doesn’t matter that the birds were all a few hours behind the first bird to the loft because you don’t care about the first bird you care about your bird. I would be the same way. In a scramble to keep everyone happy I went out on bought a $1,300 M1 before the next race. 

One of the reasons I bought it was so I could download results right to my computer. The program that came with the clock to load on my computer is crap. It took about two hours to come up with that list last night. It crashed the computer twice. I had to remove and then reinstall the driver. After I get the clock and computer communicating it does not allow me to have ydm, distance, it is basically not user friendly at all. Anyone else have issue with an M1 computer download?


----------



## Flapdoodle

Big T said:


> With six you gave up being careful!!! So after the first child, the second child is 100% increase, third 50%, fourth 33%, fifth 25%, sixth 20%. So a seventh child is just a small increase. So you go have some fun, you can pay for it later.
> 
> 
> LOL Tony


You are starting to sound like my wife... what's one more


----------



## Matt Bell

Josepe said:


> I understand now.Thanks.Wishful thinking I guess.


An apology is in order, just like a response to my PM...you said you would respond and now you are not following through on your word. Obviously you have never run an electronic clock or you would realize that bird didn't clock. But what the heck, it was Tom's fault right.


----------



## Alamo

There have been a few times,when I trained my birds,that one pigeon didn`t get clocked in on my e-clock...When a bunch of pigeons are entering the loft,it could happen,and does...Alamo


----------



## PigeonVilla

Alamo said:


> There have been a few times,when I trained my birds,that one pigeon didn`t get clocked in on my e-clock...When a bunch of pigeons are entering the loft,it could happen,and does...Alamo


 All I can say is that when your dealing with pigeons and pigeon people when doesnt Schit happen . LOL!!

Enjoy the ride and dont be such a hater .  " not directed at alamo"


----------



## conditionfreak

*Breaking News!* Next, I'm gonna kick a Coopers Hawks butt!

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1265823/rare_a_pigeon_fights_with_a_kitten/


----------



## conditionfreak

May be the prettiest pigeon in the world.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/oct/08/rare-pigeon-species-breed-zoo


----------



## conditionfreak

Pretty in Pink, and rare.

http://www.ouramazingplanet.com/pink-pigeon-chick-hatched-101129-0784/


----------



## Flapdoodle

*Josepe's bird GFTG 105*

I was going to try to get some video of our winning bird. For whatever reason Josepe's bird GFTG 105 really wanted to get on camera. Pretty sure it is a cock bird. Great bird, it should really help your breeding program. Do you want it back before or after Thanksgiving week?

http://youtu.be/-I5wZ7NyPyw


----------



## Thunderbird Racing

Flapdoodle said:


> I was going to try to get some video of our winning bird. For whatever reason Josepe's bird GFTG 105 really wanted to get on camera. Pretty sure it is a cock bird. Great bird, it should really help your breeding program. Do you want it back before or after Thanksgiving week?
> 
> http://youtu.be/-I5wZ7NyPyw


now that is funny right there!!


----------



## Matt Bell

LMAO, that is hilarious!


----------



## rackerman

*I was hoping to see Blue Bomber LOL*


Flapdoodle said:


> I was going to try to get some video of our winning bird. For whatever reason Josepe's bird GFTG 105 really wanted to get on camera. Pretty sure it is a cock bird. Great bird, it should really help your breeding program. Do you want it back before or after Thanksgiving week?
> 
> http://youtu.be/-I5wZ7NyPyw


----------



## SouthTown Racers

Flapdoodle said:


> I was going to try to get some video of our winning bird. For whatever reason Josepe's bird GFTG 105 really wanted to get on camera. Pretty sure it is a cock bird. Great bird, it should really help your breeding program. Do you want it back before or after Thanksgiving week?
> 
> http://youtu.be/-I5wZ7NyPyw


Funniest thing Ive ever seen!!!


----------



## ace in the hole

Tom, If I had known he had filled out like that I would have had you send him to me. He may not have made the breeding loft but... well, we don't want to talk about that on this forum.


----------



## Alamo

Like the video`s....It`s been almost 30 years since I seen a bird with Pox !!! Forgot what it looked like,to say the least...Love that cock bird going back to Maryland....hahahahahaha.......Alamo


----------



## Thunderbird Racing

rackerman said:


> *I was hoping to see Blue Bomber LOL*


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X72vHrOYSWg&feature=related


----------



## mtripOH

Flapdoodle said:


> I was going to try to get some video of our winning bird. For whatever reason Josepe's bird GFTG 105 really wanted to get on camera. Pretty sure it is a cock bird. Great bird, it should really help your breeding program. Do you want it back before or after Thanksgiving week?
> 
> http://youtu.be/-I5wZ7NyPyw


 Now that is just too funny. I have been bad sick for a few days and this really cheered me up! Thanks for sharing!!


----------



## rackerman

*Thank you!!! I didn't see that till you post this!!! Wow, that Blue Bomber (Cov33) sure is a beautiful bird. I can't wait till he gets home. I am kinda glad he won't be here till December, that will give me the time I need to set up my 2nd loft just for him and 32

Thank you Tom, that made my day!!!*


Thunderbird Racing said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X72vHrOYSWg&feature=related


----------



## Big T

I'm still laughing!!!! Also getting hungry for Thanksgiving for some old reason.


----------



## Crazy Pete

Flapdoodle said:


> I was going to try to get some video of our winning bird. For whatever reason Josepe's bird GFTG 105 really wanted to get on camera. Pretty sure it is a cock bird. Great bird, it should really help your breeding program. Do you want it back before or after Thanksgiving week?
> 
> http://youtu.be/-I5wZ7NyPyw


I wonder if you can cross that with the Ganus entry for the 2012 PT race. lol
Dave


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Flapdoodle said:


> I was going to try to get some video of our winning bird. For whatever reason Josepe's bird GFTG 105 really wanted to get on camera. Pretty sure it is a cock bird. Great bird, it should really help your breeding program. Do you want it back before or after Thanksgiving week?
> 
> http://youtu.be/-I5wZ7NyPyw


105 has really filled out into a nice looking bird.


----------



## newtopidgeons

I wouldnt dare think of entering a turd out of one of my birds in a race with such inmature competiton. Poor sportsmanship all the way around here guys. Like a bunch of school aged kids on the playground. Surely poop talk classic 2012 will be another fiasco for the whole world to read about.


----------



## born to race

newtopidgeons said:


> I wouldnt dare think of entering a turd out of one of my birds in a race with such inmature competiton. Poor sportsmanship all the way around here guys. Like a bunch of school aged kids on the playground. Surely poop talk classic 2012 will be another fiasco for the whole world to read about.


Thank You NEWTOPIDGEONS!
Even the winner is feeling like million the man.


----------



## Crazy Pete

newtopidgeons said:


> I wouldnt dare think of entering a turd out of one of my birds in a race with such inmature competiton. Poor sportsmanship all the way around here guys. Like a bunch of school aged kids on the playground. Surely poop talk classic 2012 will be another fiasco for the whole world to read about.


No it was not poor sportsmanship all around but there are always a few people that think they can do better. I'll be willing to bet none of them will step up and give it a try, as they know they would fail. For the most part I think all went pretty good, and keep in mind I lost my birds early on. 
Dave


----------



## hillfamilyloft

newtopidgeons said:


> I wouldnt dare think of entering a turd out of one of my birds in a race with such inmature competiton. Poor sportsmanship all the way around here guys. Like a bunch of school aged kids on the playground. Surely poop talk classic 2012 will be another fiasco for the whole world to read about.


New
I think Tom is just trying to lighten up a difficult PT race season. 105 was bred by me, so I can have a little fun pocking fun. Inmature maybe, but there have been a bunch of poking coming his way. He is just pointing out to us that we might be taking this fun race a bit too seriously. Many in here paid all of $20 to enter a race they expected to be run like the South African race. I found humor in most of what is going on here. The poop talk is part of it. 105 was donated by me had a very fine racing season and will go on to Josepe's place for some breeding. This is a quality bird. If you saw the real video of her and Cov 33 you will see the quality in these birds. A little Turkey humor was needed to lighten the mood. There will always be people to laugh, whine and cry. I try to be one that laughs. Makes life a bit funner.


----------



## rackerman

*I have to agree, it's all in fun I don't see anythng wrong Let the poop fly......LOL*


hillfamilyloft said:


> New
> I think Tom is just trying to lighten up a difficult PT race season. 105 was bred by me, so I can have a little fun pocking fun. Inmature maybe, but there have been a bunch of poking coming his way. He is just pointing out to us that we might be taking this fun race a bit too seriously. Many in here paid all of $20 to enter a race they expected to be run like the South African race. I found humor in most of what is going on here. The poop talk is part of it. 105 was donated by me had a very fine racing season and will go on to Josepe's place for some breeding. This is a quality bird. If you saw the real video of her and Cov 33 you will see the quality in these birds. A little Turkey humor was needed to lighten the mood. There will always be people to laugh, whine and cry. I try to be one that laughs. Makes life a bit funner.


----------



## rackerman

*Dave, I have to admit, your a GREAT SPORT*


Crazy Pete said:


> No it was not poor sportsmanship all around but there are always a few people that think they can do better. I'll be willing to bet none of them will step up and give it a try, as they know they would fail. For the most part I think all went pretty good, and keep in mind I lost my birds early on.
> Dave


----------



## Alamo

Both of those birds in the video look great....Send them to me,I don`t have any Blue Bars in my loft at all....I wonder what happened to the ones I used to have...hahahahahaha!!!! They are now Red Checks,if you can beleive that...Alamo


----------



## g-pigeon

Hey im ok with the poop talk makes it more interesting. cant wait till next years race.truthfully if you don't like dealing with poop raising pigeons is not for you. scraping and cleaning everyday is work.


----------



## Big T

newtopidgeons said:


> I wouldnt dare think of entering a turd out of one of my birds in a race with such inmature competiton. Poor sportsmanship all the way around here guys. Like a bunch of school aged kids on the playground. Surely poop talk classic 2012 will be another fiasco for the whole world to read about.


Sorry you think that way. This was not a money race and my birds have spent their time traveling from loft to loft out west, (I'm still getting phone calls) instead of returning to Tom's. I have enjoyed both races and have learned alot. As for Tom, the money we paid could not cover the gas for the races much less the feed. From the beginning the PT race has been for fun. Like gambling with toothpicks, why take it serious it just for toothpicks. But then there are those who do. I personally save that stress for something I have real money in, like the stockmarket. 

God Bless,
Tony


----------



## ace in the hole

What ever race, club or combine you are in you're going to get that. It is just part of racing. Some people are good sports and some are not. If that turns people away from the PT classic I would guess they haven't done much if any pigeon racing in the past.

The rest of us will have our birds there next year. If the PT Classic thread bothers any of you then I would say, do us a faver and don't read it or post on it. Problem solved! 

Thank you,

Ace


----------



## First To Hatch

ace in the hole said:


> What ever race, club or combine you are in you're going to get that. It is just part of racing. Some people are good sports and some are not. If that turns people away from the PT classic I would guess they haven't done much if any pigeon racing in the past.
> 
> The rest of us will have our birds there next year. If the PT Classic thread bothers any of you then I would say, do us a faver and don't read it or post on it. Problem solved!
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Ace


I agree 100%


----------



## Crazy Pete

rackerman said:


> *Dave, I have to admit, your a GREAT SPORT*



My family has been in pigeons since 1966, I've been married since 1978 in all my years I've learned 2 things

1 Never sweat the petty things
2 Yes dear 

Once you get those 2 things figured out the rest comes easy.
Dave


----------



## newtopidgeons

ace in the hole said:


> What ever race, club or combine you are in you're going to get that. It is just part of racing. Some people are good sports and some are not. If that turns people away from the PT classic I would guess they haven't done much if any pigeon racing in the past.
> 
> The rest of us will have our birds there next year. If the PT Classic thread bothers any of you then I would say, do us a faver and don't read it or post on it. Problem solved!
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Ace


Funny you say that every time you dont like what I post. Dont post here??? Ill post were I please unless I get banned.
We may have it in our combine but it dont go on at our club.
Thank you,


----------



## rpalmer

*Devils Advocate*



Big T said:


> From the beginning the PT race has been for fun. Like gambling with toothpicks, why take it serious it just for toothpicks.


Most of the birds were worth more than toothpicks. 



ace in the hole said:


> If the PT Classic thread bothers any of you then I would say, do us a faver and don't read it or post on it. Problem solved!


What a novel idea. Let's get rid of the moderators and do it forum wide.

I did not enter a bird. I will not next year. Hopefully this race will mature and be an event to be proud to win rather than a fun way to get rid of birds.

Take care


----------



## Big T

rpalmer said:


> *Most of the birds were worth more than toothpicks.*



When your right, your right



rpalmer said:


> *What a novel idea. Let's get rid of the moderators and do it forum wide.*



We all need a little self control, I call mine "Honey" and "Dear"



rpalmer said:


> *I did not enter a bird. I will not next year. Hopefully this race will mature and be an event to be proud to win rather than a fun way to get rid of birds.*



If your birds are that good, then you should have no problem winning this small invested race. But then how would you know unless you enter. And for the record, "If you do not want to lose birds, do not have pigeons," My first lesson before my mentor would give me my starter birds. 
Regardless, I wish you the best,
Tony

Take care


----------



## Flapdoodle

*Cov 33*



Thunderbird Racing said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X72vHrOYSWg&feature=related


Thanks for posting this link. I was going to do it and just got busy. COV 33 is a great looking bird and our winner. Rackerman is lucky to have both those COV birds.


----------



## Flapdoodle

newtopidgeons said:


> I wouldnt dare think of entering a turd out of one of my birds in a race with such inmature competiton. Poor sportsmanship all the way around here guys. Like a bunch of school aged kids on the playground. Surely poop talk classic 2012 will be another fiasco for the whole world to read about.


It is a love hate relationship I am sure with you and a lot of people in the forum. Heck it is a love hate relationship with me. I am not sure why people keep coming back. Maybe they like reading at worst a crummy handling, train wreck, of a race. Maybe it has to do with people like seeing others fail or worse off then they are. Like a Jerry Springer or Dr Phil show. It some how makes people feel better about themselves. 

The "poop" talk classic of 2010 and 2011 are the two most viewed threads in the racing forum. Not for this year but I think of all time. Maybe they are viewed with contempt or disgust but for whatever reason they are getting read. So I guess you are welcome for whatever you get out of following along.


----------



## Flapdoodle

*2012 Yearling Race*

We have had three more birds trap in... NEPLS 1827, GFTG 108, TRC 11473. 

I have been back and forth on my plans for 2012. It looks like I am going to fly at least the first half of the OB races. I originally planned on breeding from the birds that I was going to keep. Many of you have given me permission to keep the birds for breeding. If anyone has any objections to me flying the 19 birds I am keeping please shoot me a PM regarding your bird. The three COV birds are still slated to go back to their owners. We have three birds eligible for GFTG money in OB's.

At this point all you can expect if you have birds in the loft will be checking the club results on the AU website. Any other race info you get from me would be a unexpected bonus. 

Please PM me if you would rather your bird not race as a yearling and we can work something else out.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

I think the energy in this thread should move to the 2012 PT Classic thread and we should give Flap a rest from all this crud. It seems this post has been soured by those who did not raise or fly birds in the race. Its easy to find fault in something you were not directly involved in. With no ownership, no pride. I sent good birds to a hard race course. I did expect some would not make it through the races. If you do not want to loose birds, don't race pigeons. Stick to say the shows. And yes I did expect to win. The PT is a friendly competition among friends. Tom invested a bunch of time in this race. The race did have its ups and downs. It is easy to sit in your arm chair and be the quarterback. So personally I think it is time to shut the heck up and start griping on the other post. Let Flap spend some quality time with the family. Look out Condition its going to get deep in the other post. Your a brave man taking on this event. I give you a thanks in advance.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Flapdoodle said:


> We have had three more birds trap in... NEPLS 1827, GFTG 108, TRC 11473.
> 
> I have been back and forth on my plans for 2012. It looks like I am going to fly at least the first half of the OB races. I originally planned on breeding from the birds that I was going to keep. Many of you have given me permission to keep the birds for breeding. If anyone has any objections to me flying the 19 birds I am keeping please shoot me a PM regarding your bird. The three COV birds are still slated to go back to their owners. We have three birds eligible for GFTG money in OB's.
> 
> At this point all you can expect if you have birds in the loft will be checking the club results on the AU website. Any other race info you get from me would be a unexpected bonus.
> 
> Please PM me if you would rather your bird not race as a yearling and we can work something else out.


Well looky there 108 must have dumped her BF in the other loft. I say fly the bird. You never know it may just do it in old birds.


----------



## hillfamilyloft

Tom if you want to breed from 108 it is off some pretty good stuff. its sibling was my unallocated winner at 155m 368 birds by 11 minutes. Last year the pair also bred good birds. The sire is sibling to my best bird in 09 2nd high points bird in the club. The Dam is off my futurity winner. Keep the bird, it keeps coming back, maybe weeks later, but you never know.


----------



## Big T

Flapdoodle said:


> It is a love hate relationship I am sure with you and a lot of people in the forum. Heck it is a love hate relationship with me. I am not sure why people keep coming back. Maybe they like reading at worst a crummy handling, train wreck, of a race. Maybe it has to do with people like seeing others fail or worse off then they are. Like a Jerry Springer or Dr Phil show. It some how makes people feel better about themselves.
> 
> The "poop" talk classic of 2010 and 2011 are the two most viewed threads in the racing forum. Not for this year but I think of all time. Maybe they are viewed with contempt or disgust but for whatever reason they are getting read. So I guess you are welcome for whatever you get out of following along.


What is also missing is all your work to make this a reality. I remember the emails in the beginning and all your prep work before you even began to get started on the first loft race. Just looking back over the first two races I can see it was you that made this happen, and for what??? Money? You lost money in this adventure. Fun??? you gave up time with your family to make this happen. Mostly, I cannot understand why anyone not in this race would complain. But they do. Know this Flap, each and everyone of us that had birds in the races thank you for all you have done. It has been a joy, a lot of fun, and a learning experience for us all. I thank you for all you have done.

God Bless,
Tony


----------



## SouthTown Racers

I think it would be fun to watch and see how MTP 1442 does as a yearling...good luck with him Tom


----------



## Alamo

Maybe for 2012,ONLY the lofts who SENT birds for the 2012 PT race,should be able to post in the 2012 PT race thread....Maybe that will keep the bickering down to nil.....Alamo


----------



## drifter

Looks to me like it's already beginning to fizzle. I believe most folks have already said what they want to say.


----------



## kbraden

That's crazy! These birds have been missing a long time, to show up now. Gives the rest of us a little bit of last hope 



Flapdoodle said:


> We have had three more birds trap in... NEPLS 1827, GFTG 108, TRC 11473.
> 
> I have been back and forth on my plans for 2012. It looks like I am going to fly at least the first half of the OB races. I originally planned on breeding from the birds that I was going to keep. Many of you have given me permission to keep the birds for breeding. If anyone has any objections to me flying the 19 birds I am keeping please shoot me a PM regarding your bird. The three COV birds are still slated to go back to their owners. We have three birds eligible for GFTG money in OB's.
> 
> At this point all you can expect if you have birds in the loft will be checking the club results on the AU website. Any other race info you get from me would be a unexpected bonus.
> 
> Please PM me if you would rather your bird not race as a yearling and we can work something else out.


----------



## Alamo

There has always been pigeon flyers who "HOLD" stray birds,that they KNOW/THINK are futurity birds,untill the races are over....The 2011 IF Convention Race web site posts lost birds....Right now,over 800 are lost IF race pigeons....How many are being HELD,untill the race is over ?? I bet 200 or more !!!!...They will release them EVEN on the day of the race !!!...Alamo


----------



## ace in the hole

There is a member of the FM club I use to fly with that lost two of his combine auction race birds early in the season. On the morning of the auction race both birds came in together all fat and happy.


----------



## Alamo

Ace....A buddy here got 3 Auction birds home on race day of Auction #2,a couple of years ago....He said I would bet they came from no farther then 50/60 miles away...They were in great shape.....Alamo


----------



## Pigeon0446

I had a guy give me one back on shipping night of the money race in the club. He said he had it trained and thought it was his bird but realized it when he was gonna ship it. But I knew it was BS since if he was gonna ship it he would have had a chip made for the bird. Plus the guy had a small team of birds and really spends alot of time with them so how can you not tell a stray. But I was glad to get that bird back he is a brother to one of my 2 time winners. I'll give him a shot in the breeding loft. But I've also had the ones come back on race day or the day after.


----------



## Flapdoodle

*it's a wrap*

Poop Talk, bad handling, what ever you want to call it. Final tally with 26 lofts starting the season we ended up 10th in average speed and 13th in loft points. That is very short of the goal for champion loft. I would not necessarily call it a complete and total failure but everyone is entitled his or her own opinion. We did end up with many losses. 

I think there is some benefit after the racing season to give yourself an honest assessment of your year as far as racing pigeons both results and management. I have indicated I wanted to post a mistake list so that I will be more likely not to make the same mistakes. There might also be some benefit to someone thinking about hosting this race and maybe those new to pigeons can learn something as well. 

“Waiting is a trap. There will always be reasons to wait. The truth is, there are only two things in life, reasons and results, and reasons simply don't count.”

Not sure who the quote is from. I am going to try to not list reasons because they simply don’t matter. 

Here are some of the mistakes and things I would do differently to improve race results. These are the issues I had from my end not necessarily issues that you guys had on your end. There has already been a list posted by another member based on his perspective. Here is mine:

1.	Don’t put off building a new loft if you are going to do it. The birds are going to come ready or not (either babies you raise or shipped from someone else) I puttered around a little to much October - February and then when it “HAD” to get done I was out in the rain and missing work days.

2.	If you are having a large number of birds shipped, wait until just before the post office closes to go pick them up. There about two or three weeks end of March to the first of April where I pretty much killed myself. The post office would call about 6:30 “Tom we got some birds” I would drive the 20 minutes to the post office pick up the birds. Get back home and get them in the loft. A little more then an hour round trip which is no big deal. The issue was several days I would get a calls back saying that a truck just dropped off more birds. Birds would come on the regular truck first thing in the morning and then special deliveries to the post office two or three other times. There were a few days that I went to the post office three times in one day. I was worried and did not want to have birds sitting at the post office so would drop what I was doing and drive up right when I got the call. It would have been much easier just to wait until just before closing and make one trip. I am sure the birds would have been fine. 

3.	If a bird is sick permanently remove it from the loft. If the birds are your own this is a little easier to do. If they are sent from all over place and people expect you to race them it is harder. I spent a pretty good deal of time the end of May and June trying to keep birds healthy. We had three sections of loft complete. My original idea was to keep the ages separate. The first group or earlier birds I had out and taking there first dips around the loft. When we had sick birds I was trying to isolate them in one section, I also wanted a section for new arrivals which meant that the first group who was loft flying a little now had some birds that were younger and I did not let any of them out anymore until June. We did have some that died. I really think that it would have been better for the group to remove the birds that were “off”. 

4.	Don’t wait to long to train the birds. I really think the sooner you get the birds out of the loft the better. I did not have the birds out until June. That has birds that are three/four months old outside for the first time. I am not talking about being strong on the wing although that is a problem (I dropped 12 birds loft flying) I really think there are two other issues. One is the birds don’t feel secure outside the loft and the second I think the birds end up not learning what they should when they are young and impressionable. Basically “stupid”. The first toss was not until the end of July. That left me with a month to get the birds out to 100 miles. It would have been better to get them out in the basket early June not loft breaking them at that time. 

5.	Loft changes: One is the perches. The guy that had the loft before me had made the perches and they work. You don’t have to clean anything. They are t perches made of 2x2 about five inches long. I believe the birds have a little more attachment to the loft when they own a little more real estate. 10 square inch t perch or 64 square inch box perch or better yet 288 square inch nest box. If you can get a bird to claim a little more territory I think, they are more motivated. The second thing in the loft I need to change is the method of catching the birds prior to basketing. With the T perches the birds are all over the place when you try to catch them. It can’t help with motivation and a bird loving home when you are chasing them all over the loft right before shipping. 

6.	The area were I dropped the ball the most is in preparing the birds prior to racing regarding the molt. If people in your club and combine are on a system you pretty much need to be on a system if you want to compete on a regular basis. We had birds falling to pieces while some of those we were flying against had birds in perfect feather. This single change (either light or dark) and getting the birds through the molt I feel would do the most to improve my results. 

I wish Walt all the luck in the world with the 2012 Classic:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f14/pigeon-talk-classic-for-2012-official-thread-56953.html


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## PigeonVilla

Flapdoodle said:


> Poop Talk, bad handling, what ever you want to call it. Final tally with 26 lofts starting the season we ended up 10th in average speed and 13th in loft points. That is very short of the goal for champion loft. I would not necessarily call it a complete and total failure but everyone is entitled his or her own opinion. We did end up with many losses.
> 
> I think there is some benefit after the racing season to give yourself an honest assessment of your year as far as racing pigeons both results and management. I have indicated I wanted to post a mistake list so that I will be more likely not to make the same mistakes. There might also be some benefit to someone thinking about hosting this race and maybe those new to pigeons can learn something as well.
> 
> “Waiting is a trap. There will always be reasons to wait. The truth is, there are only two things in life, reasons and results, and reasons simply don't count.”
> 
> Not sure who the quote is from. I am going to try to not list reasons because they simply don’t matter.
> 
> Here are some of the mistakes and things I would do differently to improve race results. These are the issues I had from my end not necessarily issues that you guys had on your end. There has already been a list posted by another member based on his perspective. Here is mine:
> 
> 1.	Don’t put off building a new loft if you are going to do it. The birds are going to come ready or not (either babies you raise or shipped from someone else) I puttered around a little to much October - February and then when it “HAD” to get done I was out in the rain and missing work days.
> 
> 2.	If you are having a large number of birds shipped, wait until just before the post office closes to go pick them up. There about two or three weeks end of March to the first of April where I pretty much killed myself. The post office would call about 6:30 “Tom we got some birds” I would drive the 20 minutes to the post office pick up the birds. Get back home and get them in the loft. A little more then an hour round trip which is no big deal. The issue was several days I would get a calls back saying that a truck just dropped off more birds. Birds would come on the regular truck first thing in the morning and then special deliveries to the post office two or three other times. There were a few days that I went to the post office three times in one day. I was worried and did not want to have birds sitting at the post office so would drop what I was doing and drive up right when I got the call. It would have been much easier just to wait until just before closing and make one trip. I am sure the birds would have been fine.
> 
> 3.	If a bird is sick permanently remove it from the loft. If the birds are your own this is a little easier to do. If they are sent from all over place and people expect you to race them it is harder. I spent a pretty good deal of time the end of May and June trying to keep birds healthy. We had three sections of loft complete. My original idea was to keep the ages separate. The first group or earlier birds I had out and taking there first dips around the loft. When we had sick birds I was trying to isolate them in one section, I also wanted a section for new arrivals which meant that the first group who was loft flying a little now had some birds that were younger and I did not let any of them out anymore until June. We did have some that died. I really think that it would have been better for the group to remove the birds that were “off”.
> 
> 4.	Don’t wait to long to train the birds. I really think the sooner you get the birds out of the loft the better. I did not have the birds out until June. That has birds that are three/four months old outside for the first time. I am not talking about being strong on the wing although that is a problem (I dropped 12 birds loft flying) I really think there are two other issues. One is the birds don’t feel secure outside the loft and the second I think the birds end up not learning what they should when they are young and impressionable. Basically “stupid”. The first toss was not until the end of July. That left me with a month to get the birds out to 100 miles. It would have been better to get them out in the basket early June not loft breaking them at that time.
> 
> 5.	Loft changes: One is the perches. The guy that had the loft before me had made the perches and they work. You don’t have to clean anything. They are t perches made of 2x2 about five inches long. I believe the birds have a little more attachment to the loft when they own a little more real estate. 10 square inch t perch or 64 square inch box perch or better yet 288 square inch nest box. If you can get a bird to claim a little more territory I think, they are more motivated. The second thing in the loft I need to change is the method of catching the birds prior to basketing. With the T perches the birds are all over the place when you try to catch them. It can’t help with motivation and a bird loving home when you are chasing them all over the loft right before shipping.
> 
> 6.	The area were I dropped the ball the most is in preparing the birds prior to racing regarding the molt. If people in your club and combine are on a system you pretty much need to be on a system if you want to compete on a regular basis. We had birds falling to pieces while some of those we were flying against had birds in perfect feather. This single change (either light or dark) and getting the birds through the molt I feel would do the most to improve my results.
> 
> I wish Walt all the luck in the world with the 2012 Classic:
> 
> http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f14/pigeon-talk-classic-for-2012-official-thread-56953.html


 Dont beat yourself up over it, the PA Dutch classic last year lost so many birds they didnt even archive their last years race results not sure how many they started with but the last race they only had 32 birds left . lol It happens to the best of them .


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## Crazy Pete

The Sun City race started with over 6000 birds they only have them trained to 50 mi and have already lost 1400, and they are supposed to be pros. I think you did a good job.
Dave


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## fresnobirdman

could someone show the results for all the races?
Or could you tell me where the result is on this thread?


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## Flapdoodle

fresnobirdman said:


> could someone show the results for all the races?
> Or could you tell me where the result is on this thread?


check my signature...

for the club results you need to log in to google

the pt results you can click on sheet 3 to see the first 4 races and training tosses


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## Flapdoodle

*ACE you saved my marriage*

Friday was my anniversary. I did not yet have a gift for my wife (I had ordered something it did not show up until Monday). 

Low and behold looked what showed up in the mail:










No, not the baby. Look a little closer:










Thanks ACE!


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## blongboy

....cool!!!


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## hillfamilyloft

I would still be in the dog house. Or the coop.


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## Thunderbird Racing

hillfamilyloft said:


> I would still be in the dog house. Or the coop.


race season has been over for a week now, and I still have 1 foot in the dog house!


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## rackerman

Tom, That's cool. My wife would love a pair of them. You sure made a cutie baby too She is adorable!


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## Big T

Tom, that was a good assessment and Honest. Just like everything else you did for these two races. Could I have done better, No. Those that could would not have wasted their time running a race like this. No money in it. We all got what we paid for and had a lot of fun doing it. Plus, thanks again for your honesty, we learned as you learned. This race was ONLY for bragging rights and well earned. Because regardless of what people may think every bird had the same training, every bird had the same chance. Which is why you have one loft races. You lessons learned are good ones and we all can take it to heart. But the winners of the two races have also earned their bragging rights. Cause, with everything else being equal, they bred the winner.

God Bless,
Tony


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## ace in the hole

Flapdoodle said:


> Friday was my anniversary. I did not yet have a gift for my wife (I had ordered something it did not show up until Monday).
> 
> Low and behold looked what showed up in the mail:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, not the baby. Look a little closer:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks ACE!


Tom, I'm glad you posted that second pic. OMG for a moment I thought I was in for DNA testing and maybe more child support payments. 

I am glad she likes them. I did notice she has it in the wrong ear. They should be made as a set of right and left so the feathers face out. Have her check them, if they are not made that way let me know.


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## mtripOH

Tom, what a sweet little one you have there! Thanks for sharing.


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## rackerman

I sure would like to hear from Tom, to see how the Cov birds are doing! Anyone hear from him?? I am getting excited to get them Cov birds here!! I have a loft set up for just them and whom ever I am going to breed them with.


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## bbcdon

I bet you already have the honeymoon suites ready for them!


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## rpalmer

rackerman said:


> I sure would like to hear from Tom, to see how the Cov birds are doing! Anyone hear from him?? I am getting excited to get them Cov birds here!! I have a loft set up for just them and whom ever I am going to breed them with.





rackerman said:


> *Thank you!!! I didn't see that till you post this!!! Wow, that Blue Bomber (Cov33) sure is a beautiful bird. I can't wait till he gets home. I am kinda glad he won't be here till December, that will give me the time I need to set up my 2nd loft just for him and 32
> 
> Thank you Tom, that made my day!!!*


Broken calendar?


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## drifter

rackerman said:


> I sure would like to hear from Tom, to see how the Cov birds are doing! Anyone hear from him?? I am getting excited to get them Cov birds here!! I have a loft set up for just them and whom ever I am going to breed them with.


Dunno how old your COV birds will be when you set them up to breed but as you probably know young birds can sometimes be very unreliable as breeders. Might be a good idea to have potential foster parents set up to to hatch the eggs or foster the young out to.


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## Alamo

Just send me the eggs....I`ll have babies back to you in no time at all....They might be Red Checks,but that`s OK....I guess you didn`t know you can get REDS out of Blue Bars....At least in my loft YOU CAN...hahahahahahaha!!!!! Lots of luck with the COV Pair !!! Alamo


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## rackerman

*Oh yes Don, already for them!!*


bbcdon said:


> I bet you already have the honeymoon suites ready for them!


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## rackerman

*I already thought that one out and I have some great foster birds*


grifter said:


> Dunno how old your COV birds will be when you set them up to breed but as you probably know young birds can sometimes be very unreliable as breeders. Might be a good idea to have potential foster parents set up to to hatch the eggs or foster the young out to.


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## rackerman

*Something fishy here... I do need all the luck I can get*


Alamo said:


> Just send me the eggs....I`ll have babies back to you in no time at all....They might be Red Checks,but that`s OK....I guess you didn`t know you can get REDS out of Blue Bars....At least in my loft YOU CAN...hahahahahahaha!!!!! Lots of luck with the COV Pair !!! Alamo


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## rackerman

*No, calendar still works. I am expecting them in early December, just wondering how they are doing and how 32 is doing with the POX...*


rpalmer said:


> Broken calendar?


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## Flapdoodle

Hello all, I know this thread is old. I am hoping that some of you original guys that have been on here a while might see this. I do reference the forum in the video :


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