# getting into pigeons, help please?



## peafowl242 (Aug 6, 2007)

*Pigeons, Help?? (update)*

Hey everyone,

Well I had 3 homers before but they were so wild and afraid of me, i had them for about 3 weeks and one day i opened the door and they flew out  I would like to get like 2-3 pairs of a fancy breed like fantails. I want them to be really friendly and not afriad of me. I have a large old chickencoop thats about 10 feet tall, 12 feet long, and 8 feet wide. It has a run with that 2X4 wire and it about 5 feet tall and 14 feet long and 8 feet wide. I would like to breed them. So my questions are  

1. How many pigeons can I fit in there so they are comfortable?

2. Can fantails fly, like can i let them out to fly?

3. Are fantails a nice, docile breed?

4. I wanted to put like gravel in the run, and in the coop and was going to put like cheap lamanite flooring and on the walls like laminate wallboard so it can easily be cleaned/washed off, does this sound like a good idea?

Ill probally have more questions later, thanks


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## stach_n_flash (Mar 15, 2006)

First off welcome to pigeon talk.


"10 feet tall, 12 feet long, and 8 feet wide"

*Answer to question #1*

In that space you can fit 64. 

Ho you do it is you take the hieght of the cage times it by the width and the depth and then devide by 15. To get the number of birds you can fit.

10x12=120
120x8=960
960/15=64

*Answer to question #2*

Fantails can be thought to home but you must keep them a month to a month and a half before you let them free fly.

*Answer to question #3*

I think that fantails are great! But how nice a bird is toward you is a matter of how much time you put in making him or her friendly.

*Answer to question #4*

I think that is a great idea. I dont know about the gravel because it might be hard to tend to. If you spray it with a hose the poop just goes into the gravel. And it may attract flie. But I think It is a great Idea. 

There are my 2 cents maybe some one else will come to and maybe give you a better advice.


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## peafowl242 (Aug 6, 2007)

wow i didnt think i could fit that many in there..lol wow, will they raise there babies by themselves?


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## eric98223 (Aug 4, 2007)

pigeons seem to have very little breeding problems. and they do just fine with their own young. they are easy just remember the larger the space the more wild your birds will be but also its all about how much contact they have with you. look for posts by victor he has some of the tamest birds i have ever seen he says they all want to sit on him when he goes into the fly pen. he is obviously part of their family.

again welcome and have fun!!
im new also and these are some of the nicest people i have ever met and the most helpful as well.
Eric.


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## peafowl242 (Aug 6, 2007)

okk I was looking around at some pigeon products, does this all seem like very good products and durable? http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/catalog/beginner/index.html its the foys beginner loft set, i would use everything i think exept the trap, or would I be better of buying everything seperate? Are they any other kits like this out there? Thanks


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## amoonswirl (Nov 14, 2006)

Hi Peafowl and welcome to Pigeon Talk!

Just wanted to weigh in on your fantail question...
They are a nice, docile breed. I keep 3 of them as pets and they're delightful as well as beautiful.

They're not strong flyers though. Their large tails create a bit of a drag. That's not to say they can't fly - only that they would be more prone to being caught by predators than a faster flying breed. You might want to consider letting them fly in an enclosed flight or aviary instead of letting them outside.

In the U.K. I believe that some people keep small flocks of "garden fantails" that will home to a dove cote and otherwise fly free. The tails on these birds are not as large and showy as some of the American varieties.

Though some breeds of pigeon are naturally calmer than others, a lot of the taming will depend on how much time and effort you put into it. Most birds will respond better the more time you spend with them. (but i also think that the larger your flock gets the harder it will be to tame them)

Anyway - have fun with your birds and keep us posted! We love photos!


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## Becca199212 (May 10, 2007)

That looks like a handy set, seems to have everything you could possibly need! The trap would have certainly come in useful for us, i'm sure it will for you so when you get it don't throw it away.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

peafowl242 said:


> okk I was looking around at some pigeon products, does this all seem like very good products and durable? http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/catalog/beginner/index.html its the foys beginner loft set, i would use everything i think exept the trap, or would I be better of buying everything seperate? Are they any other kits like this out there? Thanks


In my opinion, you'd be better off ordering one of the "medicine chest" packages and skipping the loft accessories. SOME of that stuff you would have to order, but things like scoops, bath pans, scrapers, perches....you can buy at the dollar store and they serve the same purpose or the perches you can build yourself for much less money. Also, the nest bowls in that package are the disposable ones, so you would wind up having to order more in the future. Even the "medicine chests" after looking at them again, has things in there that you could do without or use a product that you could buy locally and save the expense and shipping. Just my two cents worth......for what it's worth.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

stach_n_flash said:


> First off welcome to pigeon talk.
> 
> 
> "10 feet tall, 12 feet long, and 8 feet wide"
> ...


Great answers for the most part. I don't think that Fantails should be allowed free flight. They do have trouble flying and wouldn't stand a chance against a hawk or maybe even a cat. I say they have trouble flying, but I did have two for a short while. They didn't have any trouble getting away from me when they didn't want to be caught. LOL
Sounds like you've got a good size building for a loft. I would however, do something about the ceiling. 10 Ft is WAY to high. The bird would fly over your head. Maybe put in some kind of dropped ceiling or a wire ceiling, no more than 6 ft tall, unless you are taller than that. 
As far as taming the birds, the more birds you have, the more difficult it will be. There's tame as in LETTING you pick them up anytime and then there's tame as in they don't completely freak out when you get close, but would rather you just leave them alone and not try to catch or hold them. Most of my birds are the latter. They will let me walk amongst them no problem, but when I reach for one, most of them will take off. They don't mind me as long as I keep my distance and give them their space.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hi Peafowl and welcome to the forum.

I totally agree with Renee (Lovebirds) about the loft accessories and medicine chest. On the medicines, you wouldn't need all they mention and seems like the shipping costs would be pretty high. I know I had considered ordering the diatomaceous earth from one of the pigeon supply houses but a friend told me we could pick it up at Home Depot.

Check out some of the older threads about the medicines you will need to keep on hand. And, good luck.


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## peafowl242 (Aug 6, 2007)

Okk ill look around and let you guys know what I decide. Heres a picture of the coop.

http://s88.photobucket.com/albums/k170/KylesKoup/?action=view&current=Poultry203.jpg

I was thinking, underneath the perches I was going to make like a bowl type thing so all the poop collects in it and have like a garbage bag in the frame so I can just dispose of it that way? any opinions?

do there water/feeders need to be up in the air or can they be on the ground?

thanks everyone!


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Your set up looks really nice. We use aviaries so I'm not that familiar with coops or lofts but will mention that for the open run you show, I would change the wire to 1/4" hardware cloth on all sides and the top and not have ANY gaps at the bottom to prevent predators. I'm assuming you'll only have them out in the run during the day but you'd be surprised at what can come up even in the day time that can hurt them.

For our aviairies, they set on the ground but my husband dug all around them and stapled the hardware cloth to the bottom, then laid out about 15 inches in the dirt and covered it up with dirt to keep anything from crawling under.

For waterers, we use plain old one gallon water bottles, cut a hole about mid way and fill up to the hole with fresh water. We usually replace them about every week or so.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

peafowl242 said:


> Okk ill look around and let you guys know what I decide. Heres a picture of the coop.
> 
> http://s88.photobucket.com/albums/k170/KylesKoup/?action=view&current=Poultry203.jpg
> 
> ...


Pretty nice set up and building. I would however suggest that you cut some windows in the building. Pigeon require good ventilation. If there's not a good air flow, not a draft, but an exchange of air, you'll wind up with sick birds. Trust me.......you don't want that!!  
Lots of people build boxes or some sort of something to catch the droppings. There's a number of ways to do that.
Your water should be up off the floor. It will help a lot with keeping dust and feathers out of the water. You're feeders are ok on the floor as long and they can't poop in them.


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## peafowl242 (Aug 6, 2007)

Ive kept little chicks in that pen without any problems, we dont have many predators around, is it ok to run a roll of chicken wire around the bottom and leave where the chickenwire doesnt cover like it is? That way ground preds. couldnt really get to them, and yes I would put plywood roof over the run. Oh and for vents what about those window fans the white ones and put it on low, cause there the one window on the one side and another on the other side so it could just blow air right threw, i would make sure it was small enough so they couldnt get beaks or feet in it, would that work? thanks


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## stach_n_flash (Mar 15, 2006)

Ok. I agree with not letting them free fly. Through experience, the tend to to be heavier than a pigeon. And are not the best fliers. There feathered feet also seem to be a slight problem when landing a telephone poll wire as well (but this is not as important). 

They tend to breed ok. But because of there tails most breeders cut there tail feathers back. And its supose to boost the fertality rates. 

I personaly wouldnt let them out. Just because I dont think they are the best for the job. I wouldnt want you to lose any birds either so I would say the keep them locked up


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## Hamza (Dec 28, 2006)

*Free flying??*

This is a tough choice.. It, like amoonswirl said depends on your breed.. The english fantails are smaller, with smaller tails and fly better as compared to the huge American ot Indian Fantail.. 

I have 2 pairs of fantails (indian/english/tumbler mix).. Their tails are long and thick but are not held up as high as the indian or american.. They are bigger than homers but smaller than a good pure Lahore.. 

I let them free fly for 2 hours everyday and their babies (4 of them) fly free from 6am till 6pm.. They dont "fly" but just roam around the place.. They LOVE the roof.. NO predators except a cat but it cant reach the roof... So i'm not worried..

IN the beginning, i cut 5 feathers from each wing leaving 2-3 primies on each wing.. I let them stay in the loft for 3 days till i could see a nest so i knew they would come back.. I let them out for 1 hour EACH day before feeding time in front of me.. I MOINTORED them the whole time they would be outside, cuz w/o wings they could end up anywhere and never return.. They can fly upo 3 feet with clipped wings.. After 1-2 months they moulted and regained wings.. Now they fly 2-3 hours everyday and return when i feed them.. They KNOW that i am the source of food hence return everytime i come near the loft... They are tame and sometimes perch on my shoulder time to time..

A tip: NEVER let them out on a full stomach!

Thats my story,
Thnx


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## peafowl242 (Aug 6, 2007)

okk well I was looking on Foys Supplies and I found these products, can you tell me which ones are the BEST.

For Wormers/Medication

-Bayverm Wormer
-3 in 1 Multi Mix
-All in one
-4 in one

Is Diatomaceous Earth good for pigeons? And whats better Bath Salts or the Pigeon Cleanser? Is there anything else I need for my pigeons, so I would have my medications/wormers, bath salts, pigeons loft, perches, im going to buy some like dog food bowls for nest, pigeon feed/ grit, I have waterers/feeders, is there anything im forgetting? Oh is there any like vacccines I need to give them? 


and for feed which is better, http://www.mytscstore.com/detail.asp?pcID=8&paID=206&sonID=206&page=1&productID=25838

or 

http://www.mytscstore.com/detail.asp?pcID=8&paID=206&sonID=206&page=1&productID=25842

thanks alot everyone! 


& heres the link to some of the meds 
http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/catalog/wormers/index.html
http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/catalog/multi_meds/index.html


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## Grim (Jul 28, 2007)

As for the food it just depends on whether you want a pelleted feed, or a grain. I am currently feeding grain, also if you notice the pelleted feed you listed is for a 25lb bag, and the grain is a 50lb bag. So for the 50lb amount they just about equal out.
Also consider CALCIUM GLUCONATE, this is important for the hens when laying, as I am currently learning.


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## richardtheman (Jul 24, 2007)

Hamza said:


> This is a tough choice.. It, like amoonswirl said depends on your breed.. The english fantails are smaller, with smaller tails and fly better as compared to the huge American ot Indian Fantail..
> 
> I have 2 pairs of fantails (indian/english/tumbler mix).. Their tails are long and thick but are not held up as high as the indian or american.. They are bigger than homers but smaller than a good pure Lahore..
> 
> ...




do they stay out longer when they have a full stomach? Like 6 hours or so?


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## peafowl242 (Aug 6, 2007)

I think so, can anyone else answer my questions?


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## Grim (Jul 28, 2007)

The main reason you want them on an empty stomach is that once trained to a whistle, (every time they hear the whistle they know its feeding time) they will rush back into the loft. This gives you control over them, especially when danger is present such as a hawk in the area, or your leaving and won't be around to supervise. 

Medications are good to have on hand
DACOXINE 4 IN 1 covers lots of the more common diseases and is quite good from what I hear. You can get it from:

http://www.globalpigeon.com/

Vaccines, I think there a great idea, but have never personally used them.

Also the pigeon bowls are great, I have used the clay ones and the birds really seem to enjoy them. There not necessary but if you have a cock ready to set up a nest add one to their box and they will jump right in it.

Grit is important, and a good feed. Pellet or grain or you can even mix it if you would like. For perches just be creative. Anything extending from the wall will work, just place them so none are directly over another. This prevents a higher perched bird from defecating on a lower perched bird. Also I would recommend keeping them at eye level or so, this would make capturing any bird easier for you when necessary.

Also a water fountain is a good idea because a water bowl sometimes will get very dirty from the birds walking in it or defecating in it.


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## Hamza (Dec 28, 2006)

richardtheman said:


> do they stay out longer when they have a full stomach? Like 6 hours or so?


To return back to the loft, they have 2 attractions:
-food and water
-their nest

If hungry, they wont wander far off but stick around.. If full, they tend to be a bit lazy in returning..

Why you ask?
Beacuse Freedom + A full Stomach = The Good Life!


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## peafowl242 (Aug 6, 2007)

I found pigeons for sale!! They are Capucines (spelling?) she said she has younger birds that are paired and some week olds, she said some of them are white and gold and some have like purple necks and white tails. Im guessing there these birds?? 

http://www.capuchine.com/pigeons/pictures/bird pics/Fancy/OldDutchCapuchine/Yellow/Yellow4.jpg

http://www.capuchine.com/pigeons/pictures/bird pics/Fancy/OldDutchCapuchine/Bars/BlueBar1.jpg

Anyone have any advise on these birds or can answer my other questions below??? Oh and can pigeons have feed all the time like a self feeder or do they only get a certain amount a day? Thanks!


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

peafowl242 said:


> I found pigeons for sale!! They are Capucines (spelling?) she said she has younger birds that are paired and some week olds, she said some of them are white and gold and some have like purple necks and white tails. Im guessing there these birds??
> 
> http://www.capuchine.com/pigeons/pictures/bird pics/Fancy/OldDutchCapuchine/Yellow/Yellow4.jpg
> 
> ...



Capuchines are beautiful and wonderful pigeons. Our moderator, Cindy, here has some of them. 

Terry


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## Hamza (Dec 28, 2006)

peafowl242 said:


> I found pigeons for sale!! They are Capucines (spelling?) she said she has younger birds that are paired and some week olds, she said some of them are white and gold and some have like purple necks and white tails. Im guessing there these birds??
> 
> http://www.capuchine.com/pigeons/pictures/bird pics/Fancy/OldDutchCapuchine/Yellow/Yellow4.jpg
> 
> ...


I have dark red/brown capuchines.. They are quite tame and docile (my experiience) though people say they are aggressive.. I wonder why??

They cant see properly (left or right) which makes it easy to pet and catch them but also makes them easy prey.. Make sure you dont let them out or if you do then with extreme caution.. They are a beautiful breed!

Good Luck!!


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