# sterile?



## sev3ns0uls (Jul 2, 2011)

Do any one have birds that are unable to produce eggs? Are they consider sterile?

Kay, I got a hen that just wont lay egg. From my experience, hens will usually lay their first infertile eggs(with or without a mate) after their first moult. This tells that the hens are mature and ready to breed. But this one hen i had for 8 months now didnt drop any egg except poo. Well she dont have a mate yet due to all the mature cocks are taken already but she goes around and service mostly all the cocks that she finds attractive. Its sad because I know they all are just playing with her. 

For the past 4 months, I seen many times of successful mating between her and all of her lovers but what i concerning about it is that she will not lay a single egg after all of those mating. Well she is a bit young, 10 months old hen but I have another hen the same age as her(bought them together) and she already on her 3 rounds. 

Could this hen be sterile?


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

If she truly is a hen , if she mates and does not lay eggs after a year of age then I would say she may have a fertility issue. but this bird could be a male and is just acting like a hen.


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## sev3ns0uls (Jul 2, 2011)

spirit wings said:


> If she truly is a hen , if she mates and does not lay eggs after a year of age then I would say she may have a fertility issue. but this bird could be a male and is just acting like a hen.


There is no way she is a he. No cooing or dance from her and she dont have any territory. A cock usually by this age would claim an open spot and start calling for mate. she is definitely a she. 

I was just worrying about her not laying egg. I have younger cocks that will mature in the next 3 more months. I ll try paring her with with one of the young cock to see if she will lay.


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## akbird (Apr 29, 2010)

It could be she doesn't have a male "driving" her---the driving stimulates the hen to produce the egg. Not all hens require this behavior but some do. I have had hens that seemed to be barren with other cocks and once mated to a more aggressive cock that "drove" them they laid just fine. Since this hen doesn't seem to have a true mate that may be the cause. Why do you want her to lay if she is not paired-up?


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## sev3ns0uls (Jul 2, 2011)

akbird said:


> It could be she doesn't have a male "driving" her---the driving stimulates the hen to produce the egg. Not all hens require this behavior but some do. I have had hens that seemed to be barren with other cocks and once mated to a more aggressive cock that "drove" them they laid just fine. Since this hen doesn't seem to have a true mate that may be the cause. Why do you want her to lay if she is not paired-up?


i was concerning because all of my hens tend to lay their infertile eggs(small egg) when they mature up. Mostly all of my hen did go through this kind of cycle. It just that this hen just didnt lay any egg so i got worry since all they cocks that have mated with her are fertile. 

In fact i use to have this one young hen less then a year old and she lay eggs every where as she serviced some of the cocks too and even she dont have a mate. She built her own nest and claim a territory and raised up a healthy chick all by herself. 

Maybe you are right that she doesnt have a cock that driving her to lay.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I would not assume a hen is a hen, unless she has layed an egg. some cock birds do act hen like it happens allot. mating stimulates egg laying. so there are two things, either she is infertile or it is a male bird. but being only 8 months of age perhaps she is too young still and is not developing eggs but going through the motions of mating because she is maturing. I would give it some time if you sure this is a hen. it may be wise to get her her own mate which is better for the breeding loft as you do not want single birds in with your pairs to disturb breeding pairs, that is if you are breeding this time of year.?


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## sev3ns0uls (Jul 2, 2011)

For sure its not a cock bird. her cooing give it away already. 

No more breeding for me. last egg clutch is 1 week ago and that will be it for the year. If this fall she pair up with a young cock, i will try to let her hatch it. She is a Rec. red so im interesting to see what her base color is and what can she throw out. Cross finger that she is not sterile and probably need a cock to drive her to lay.

I wont say infertile because infertile hen will lay white eggs. This hen just wont lay egg.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

if a hen lays eggs she is not infertile, if they can't lay eggs then she would be considerd infertile. if eggs are not fertilized then the cock has the problem.

IMO I think the bird is too young to really sex at this point, but that is just an opinion. I have been given or bought hens that were cock birds and cock birds that ended up being hens. but you can see this bird so you are the best one to guess what it is.


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## sev3ns0uls (Jul 2, 2011)

here is pic of her.


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## Ikon (Feb 11, 2013)

a beautiful recessive red pigeon! the neck is thick, quite a characteristic of a male pigeon.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

the bird is only 8 months, I can't guess what sex it is..but time will tell. if no eggs by a year of age then my thought would be it is a cock bird as infertility for a hen at a young age is very unusal. beautiful bird!


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## sev3ns0uls (Jul 2, 2011)

Humm i think if its a 8 month cock bird, it should have been mature and do all those calling and and dancing to try and find a mate. Im telling you, its a hen for sure. Not cock. 

See 3 of my (4-5 months old young cocks 2013) already staring showing their maturity. The way they are cooing tells me that they are 100% cock. 
This one is definitely NOT. See i got her last year September 2012 as a young bird and molted in December 2012. If i calculate it right, she should be 4-5 months older then my 2013 young cock birds. So if she is a he, shouldn't (he) try to paired up with one of my unpaired hen already?? see the point... instead she service all the cock birds and fight with other hens.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

they all don't act the same. but really hen or cock it is only a guess no one can be 100% until you see eggs.


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## CMH1211 (Mar 10, 2013)

For the second time this month I have been wrong about cock and hen... spirit is right... u just never know. I have hens mount cocks and other hens and end up being hens themselves. Try to pair it with another hen. One tht is really not aggressivs. A passive hen to build confidence.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

sev3ns0uls said:


> *There is no way she is a he*. No cooing or dance from her and she dont have any territory. *A cock usually by this age would claim an open spot and start calling for mate*. she is definitely a she.
> 
> I was just worrying about her not laying egg. I have younger cocks that will mature in the next 3 more months. I ll try paring her with with one of the young cock to see if she will lay.


Has she laid an egg?? No so you cannot say there is no way.



A hen would usually show signs of wanting to lay by this point so your argument for one is contradictory to the actual scenario here now.


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## Miss-Sassypants (Sep 25, 2010)

Everyone's right. Sometimes you just can't tell until she lays.

My domestic pigeon, whom I initially thought was a dude, laid eggs only after 2 years!! So she's now a she, and only began laying at 2 years of age. So nothing is impossible.

Yours could be a dude, or could be a hen that takes forever to lay.

He/She is a very pretty bird.


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## sev3ns0uls (Jul 2, 2011)

NZ Pigeon said:


> Has she laid an egg?? No so you cannot say there is no way.
> 
> 
> 
> A hen would usually show signs of wanting to lay by this point so your argument for one is contradictory to the actual scenario here now.


What im saying is that spirit_wing think this bird may be a cock and not hen, so i just argue that if this bird is a he; shouldn't this bird start doing all the kind of things that a normal cock bird would do toward other birds since its is 8+ months old already. Things such as (claiming a territory, do the calling, coo and dancing with tail spread toward any other birds it find attractive). And instead, this bird just like to get lay by any cock birds especially with my dominant cock bird.

And i also brought the point that how come my 2013(cock birds) are way different from this bird. From my observation, comparing their action with this bird, it lacks cock's characteristic like they have. 


And of course that is what im bragging about that since this bird have mated with many of the cocks birds(for many months now), how come this bird havent lay any eggs yet or show sign of wanting to lay? So thats why im saying that could this bird be sterile.


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## sev3ns0uls (Jul 2, 2011)

Miss-Sassypants said:


> Everyone's right. Sometimes you just can't tell until she lays.
> 
> My domestic pigeon, whom I initially thought was a dude, laid eggs only after 2 years!! So she's now a she, and only began laying at 2 years of age. So nothing is impossible.
> 
> ...


that is interesting. What breed is it? Because it is harder to tell gender from other breeds than homing pigeon.


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## Miss-Sassypants (Sep 25, 2010)

sev3ns0uls said:


> that is interesting. What breed is it? Because it is harder to tell gender from other breeds than homing pigeon.


My bird is a roller grizzle. The fact that she's a grizzle made me confident that she was a he... and kapow! 20 eggs have been laid since, lol.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Miss-Sassypants said:


> My bird is a roller grizzle. The fact that she's a grizzle made me confident that she was a he... and kapow! 20 eggs have been laid since, lol.


why would a grizzle make you think the bird was a male? did I miss something about grizzle birds?


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## Miss-Sassypants (Sep 25, 2010)

spirit wings said:


> why would a grizzle make you think the bird was a male? did I miss something about grizzle birds?


I think I read somewhere in the threads that grizzle are more prominent in male birds... thus my silly assumption! Lol


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

sev3ns0uls said:


> What im saying is that spirit_wing think this bird may be a cock and not hen, so i just argue that if this bird is a he; shouldn't this bird start doing all the kind of things that a normal cock bird would do toward other birds since its is 8+ months old already. Things such as (claiming a territory, do the calling, coo and dancing with tail spread toward any other birds it find attractive). And instead, this bird just like to get lay by any cock birds especially with my dominant cock bird.
> 
> And i also brought the point that how come my 2013(cock birds) are way different from this bird. From my observation, comparing their action with this bird, it lacks cock's characteristic like they have.
> 
> ...


I understand what you are saying but I am stating that your argument for the bird being a hen and not a cock makes no sense as you are stating that if the bird was a cock it would be showing the signs of this by now, The same logic applies to the bird being a hen, If it was a hen, it would have likely laid by now. Because the bird has shown no definitive signs either way I think you are guessing the bird is a hen at this stage. Your guess is most likely correct, but its not fact

Yes the bird could be sterile ofcourse, You didn't really need to start a thread to figure that out, If she doesn't ever lay you can assume she is a sterile hen until such day she proves you otherwise, Either by fertilising an egg or laying an egg.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

Miss-Sassypants said:


> I think I read somewhere in the threads that grizzle are more prominent in male birds... thus my silly assumption! Lol


grizzle is in no way sex linked so what you read has no scientific basis and in all honesty is complete rubbish.


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## sev3ns0uls (Jul 2, 2011)

NZ Pigeon said:


> I understand what you are saying but I am stating that your argument for the bird being a hen and not a cock makes no sense as you are stating that if the bird was a cock it would be showing the signs of this by now, The same logic applies to the bird being a hen, If it was a hen, it would have likely laid by now. Because the bird has shown no definitive signs either way I think you are guessing the bird is a hen at this stage. Your guess is most likely correct, but its not fact.
> 
> Yes the bird could be sterile ofcourse, You didn't really need to start a thread to figure that out, If she doesn't ever lay you can assume she is a sterile hen until such day she proves you otherwise, Either by fertilising an egg or laying an egg.


Of course, its the kind of logic that makes no sense. Im pretty puzzled because what is this bird than?? A he-she?? lolz i dont think there is such thing. So Yes, I already concluded that its a hen for sure because of the activities and characteristic this bird is giving off and she is probably sterile due to the fact that no single egg laid yet *as of now* after all of those successful matings. 

Sorry if my bragging is a little annoy but hey, it can benefit other. Come on, this is a general topic that can eventually help those who may have any concern/confuse about their birds not laying egg too. Also anyone else who had any relate concerns can drop their stories or those seen or experiences something similar can enlighten me on my worry. Spirit_wing brought up a good point that doubting that its not a hen and it may be a cock bird and it just too young and not mature yet. And Miss-Sassypants also have a interesting story of her bird that it took 2 years for her bird to lay egg to realize its a hen not a cock bird.


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## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

sev3ns0uls said:


> ................ And Miss-Sassypants also have a interesting story of her bird that it took 2 years for her bird to lay egg to realize its a hen not a cock bird.


Birds of any kind can behave strange and live in a situation that confuses us simple humans.
I have a friend who's parents had a male African Grey Parrot called Golum.
They had it for almost 18 Years before deciding to immigrate to Spain.
Every trait from the bird pointed to it being A Male, and after 18 years who would doubt it.
When they moved, their Daughter took over the care of the parrot, and within 3 weeks of being in her care, she woke one morning to find an egg !!!!!!


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## sev3ns0uls (Jul 2, 2011)

Quazar said:


> Birds of any kind can behave strange and live in a situation that confuses us simple humans.
> I have a friend who's parents had a male African Grey Parrot called Golum.
> They had it for almost 18 Years before deciding to immigrate to Spain.
> Every trait from the bird pointed to it being A Male, and after 18 years who would doubt it.
> When they moved, their Daughter took over the care of the parrot, and within 3 weeks of being in her care, she woke one morning to find an egg !!!!!!


Now that is a very amusing story. 

But i just want to point out one thing that, since your friend's parrot and Miss-Sassypants piggy are both lonely pet and they dont have any other birds to play with or interact with. That may cause a the bird not to lay egg. My bird on the other hand have a lot of cocks to interact with and for the last 3 months; no egg yet. And also, she is no pet to me. She is as wild as a feral pigeon and very afraid of me.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I think the point is without the proof of a egg/s from her, it is still a guessing game, she could be a hen...or a cock bird. with you using her actions to tell, you just may be right. I can see why you would want to breed it..esp if it has more like it..it is such a beautiful bird. I think you just need to wait and see.. or do a DNA lab test they offer online which is about 25 dollars, they send you a kit to get some blood from a toe nail or feathers and send it off and they can tell you what sex it is.


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## sev3ns0uls (Jul 2, 2011)

wow i didnt know you can do that. Thanks Spirit_wing, but i wont go to that extreme. Time will tell and Im putting all of my bet that its a hen.


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## sev3ns0uls (Jul 2, 2011)

Time just thought me something new today. This rec.red hen i been ranting about just got herself a cock bird mate. TA-DA. Since that cock bird's mate had flew off, he is all her. 

Whats next is; will she lay eggs? finger crossed.


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## Michy (Jul 29, 2011)

I have a homer hen (about 2 yrs old) who hasn't laid an egg yet. 2 vets and 1 breeder have checked and agree she is indeed a she. Something about the vent and spacing in the hips? She also has a mate to drive her. They play house all of the time, but never an egg is found. I think it was the power of thought that worked cause I was hoping REAL hard that they wouldn't start a family...lol. Only 2 spoiled pidgies allowed in this household. I've been tempted to give them a fake egg to make them feel more "normal", but why test the fates? lol I guess what's meant to be is meant to be.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

sev3ns0uls said:


> Time just thought me something new today. This rec.red hen i been ranting about just got herself a cock bird mate. TA-DA. Since that cock bird's mate had flew off, he is all her.
> 
> Whats next is; will she lay eggs? finger crossed.


you are getting closer to your hen theory!.. let us know when/if the eggs appear.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Michy said:


> I have a homer hen (about 2 yrs old) who hasn't laid an egg yet. 2 vets and 1 breeder have checked and agree she is indeed a she. Something about the vent and spacing in the hips? She also has a mate to drive her. They play house all of the time, but never an egg is found. I think it was the power of thought that worked cause I was hoping REAL hard that they wouldn't start a family...lol. Only 2 spoiled pidgies allowed in this household. I've been tempted to give them a fake egg to make them feel more "normal", but why test the fates? lol I guess what's meant to be is meant to be.


sorry there but vent bones don't tell the tale either, I would not assume any one of the two is right. the point is also that some cock birds act like hens it is not unusual. your bird could be sexed if it was important by DNA, but as long as they have a nest to share with another then that is all that matters to some, breeders not so much.


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## LeeLu (Sep 23, 2012)

sev3ns0uls said:


> For sure its not a cock bird. her cooing give it away already.
> 
> No more breeding for me. last egg clutch is 1 week ago and that will be it for the year. If this fall she pair up with a young cock, i will try to let her hatch it. She is a Rec. red so im interesting to see what her base color is and what can she throw out. Cross finger that she is not sterile and probably need a cock to drive her to lay.
> 
> I wont say infertile because infertile hen will lay white eggs. This hen just wont lay egg.


do the washer test on the dove....you know how to do it? put a 1/4" steel washer on a string and hold it over the head/back of head neck area. if it swings from head to tail, it's a female....if it twists back and fourth like 1/2 circle then back 1/2 circle...it's a cock.

i did this with my babies...7 days old before i banned them, i did this test...i put the bands on the left leg for the cock and right leg for the hen.....my test turned out exactly right...now they are mature will be 7 mos july 4th.


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## LeeLu (Sep 23, 2012)

rec red? wow you are fortunate!


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## sev3ns0uls (Jul 2, 2011)

spirit wings said:


> you are getting closer to your hen theory!.. let us know when/if the eggs appear.


hold on a sec there. Lately I saw them mating a lot but there is one thing that is a little awkward. After the cock successfully mated her, she comes back for more and then the cock bent down for her and she rides him too. 
It happens often now. 

But i assumed maybe she just young and inexperience because some hens will top their cock mate if he bends over.


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

sev3ns0uls said:


> hold on a sec there. Lately I saw them mating a lot but there is one thing that is a little awkward. After the cock successfully mated her, she comes back for more and then the cock bent down for her and she rides him too.
> It happens often now.
> 
> But i assumed maybe she just young and inexperience because some hens will top their cock mate if he bends over.


yes hens do top their mates..Im pulling for you for this bird to be what you think it is a hen. 10 days perhaps some eggs? let us know. I want to know because I really do think this is such a nice looking bird. butreally at this point...she still could be a he.


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## sev3ns0uls (Jul 2, 2011)

yes time will tell.

In case you wondering, here is the cock she(hopefully) is pairing with.









I think he is ash-red underneath. His 4 off springs with a yellow t-pattern hen are all red and silver(probably lavender).


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## LeeLu (Sep 23, 2012)

sev3ns0uls said:


> hold on a sec there. Lately I saw them mating a lot but there is one thing that is a little awkward. After the cock successfully mated her, she comes back for more and then the cock bent down for her and she rides him too.
> It happens often now.
> 
> But i assumed maybe she just young and inexperience because some hens will top their cock mate if he bends over.


my first 2 doves, i thought were male and female, the one i thought was a male was much larger, with very broad chest and shoulders next to the other dove, i thought was a hen...they acted together just like what you described...both very loving doves, as soon as they awoke in the a.m. they were kissing, not just once but many times, then the mating began, first one laid down, then kiss more then the other laid down, each took their turn mounting....well after months, i sent for their DNA....(i didn't know about the washer test at that time...or i could have saved the $$$$ for the DNA test!) The test came back 2 females.....

the picture of the dove you think is a cock, is beautiful, but way too small in the chest and neck to be a mature cock... i hope for your sake i am wrong...because between the two you have, they are beautiful....keep us posted, and if you have a 1/4" steel washer, tie one end of a piece of string about 8-10" long to the washer, wind the other end around a finger. First lay the washer on the back just above the wings of the dove to steady it, then slowly lift it up to the back of the neck and just over the head area and see if it swings head to tail...if it does, its a female.....if the washer twists around in 1/2 circle and back or goes all the way around in a circlular motion...it's a cock.

let us know, your doves are truly beautiful, i am jealous


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## sev3ns0uls (Jul 2, 2011)

LeeLu said:


> my first 2 doves, i thought were male and female, the one i thought was a male was much larger, with very broad chest and shoulders next to the other dove, i thought was a hen...they acted together just like what you described...both very loving doves, as soon as they awoke in the a.m. they were kissing, not just once but many times, then the mating began, first one laid down, then kiss more then the other laid down, each took their turn mounting....well after months, i sent for their DNA....(i didn't know about the washer test at that time...or i could have saved the $$$$ for the DNA test!) The test came back 2 females.....
> 
> the picture of the dove you think is a cock, is beautiful, but way too small in the chest and neck to be a mature cock... i hope for your sake i am wrong...because between the two you have, they are beautiful....keep us posted, and if you have a 1/4" steel washer, tie one end of a piece of string about 8-10" long to the washer, wind the other end around a finger. First lay the washer on the back just above the wings of the dove to steady it, then slowly lift it up to the back of the neck and just over the head area and see if it swings head to tail...if it does, its a female.....if the washer twists around in 1/2 circle and back or goes all the way around in a circlular motion...it's a cock.
> 
> let us know, your doves are truly beautiful, i am jealous


Oh wow. I think most people didnt go that far using $$$ for DNA testing. If you have birds and dont know the sex, time will tell. hen will pair up with another hen if there are no cock and so does cock as well. 

Oh...hehe that pic is for sure a 2011 cock bird. This cock is one of the biggest rival to my dominate cock bird. Lolz that picture does not prove him justice because he is one of the most aggressive cock in my loft and also a loving dad.

umm about that method, i think i will give it a shot. Thanks.


-------------updated former family..yellow hen and the kids.
Cock - red underneath.








x Hen - may be red underneath as well.








= 3rd clutch Kids... i assume the red-spread one is a hen and the other one is a cock.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

sev3ns0uls said:


> yes time will tell.
> 
> In case you wondering, here is the cock she(hopefully) is pairing with.
> 
> ...


He looks ash red spread so he would produce lavenders if this is the case. Nice bird.


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## NZ Pigeon (Nov 12, 2011)

The hen IS red underneath, She is -ASH RED -DILUTE -T PATTERN. I have a few hens identical

All the young cockbird from this pair will carry dilute, Why do you assume on the sex of the young based on spread/non spread?


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## LeeLu (Sep 23, 2012)

sev3ns0uls said:


> Oh wow. I think most people didnt go that far using $$$ for DNA testing. If you have birds and dont know the sex, time will tell. hen will pair up with another hen if there are no cock and so does cock as well.
> 
> Oh...hehe that pic is for sure a 2011 cock bird. This cock is one of the biggest rival to my dominate cock bird. Lolz that picture does not prove him justice because he is one of the most aggressive cock in my loft and also a loving dad.
> 
> ...


It works, believe me....try it on a bird you know the sex of...to confirm the test!
let us know the results please!


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## sev3ns0uls (Jul 2, 2011)

NZ Pigeon said:


> The hen IS red underneath, She is -ASH RED -DILUTE -T PATTERN. I have a few hens identical
> 
> All the young cockbird from this pair will carry dilute, Why do you assume on the sex of the young based on spread/non spread?


it just an assumption from physical judgement. I notice that from my birds, a male squab is somewhat heavier then a female squab. And typically the size of their head shape determines its gender.

LOLZ, this one is not spread and its a hen.


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## sev3ns0uls (Jul 2, 2011)

Okay......ITS A HEN!!!!!! First egg just laid this afternoon. 

Spirit_wing is correct. I shall concludes the theory of *"some hen will not lay egg unless there is a cock bird driving her to lay"* Now this thread can be closed. Thanks everyone.

Im excited to see what will they produce BUT unfortunately i have to toss the egg out because the cock may not be the father. She have serviced too many cocks.


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