# male not sitting on eggs



## ryan (Mar 17, 2008)

my female homer laid her second egg 2 days ago and started to sit on them ... i have been in there several times over the past 2 days and have not seen the male sitting on the eggs once and also the female keeps getting up off of the eggs.... any advice or reasoning to this?


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

You don't give much background on them.

Are they a young and inexperienced couple? That might be the reason.

If the male shows no interest in taking his shift then she may give up the eggs alltogether. I suggest you give them a couple of dummy eggs to "play" with and allow them to mature a bit, also check and make sure they are in optimal health. A bird not feeling up to par, may not have the energy to brood. 

Every breeding couple should have had all the prevention and innoculations done.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Are you sure it's a male?*

If you have two hens, there will be much confusion about who sits when as the hen sits over night and the cock sits during the day.

Bill


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## little bird (Aug 11, 2006)

My friend has a pair of handicapped pijies and has that problem. Edgar just won't do his brood time so Elaina just sits all the time and she got a really bad infection from not eliminating her waste. Don't let that happen to your hen....take her off the nest at least 4 times a day to poop or at least make SURE she is eliminating on her own.


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## ryan (Mar 17, 2008)

i will... both of the birds are in great health and one is a male and one a female for sure. the male just perches next to the nest all day and night while she sits on the eggs. maybe in time he will sit. how long after the eggs are set can i candle them (will veins appear when i candle it)


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## Grim (Jul 28, 2007)

Check the eggs in 5 days. I once had a cock that didn't set until around 6 days into incubation.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

ryan said:


> my female homer laid her second egg 2 days ago and started to sit on them ... i have been in there several times over the past 2 days and have not seen the male sitting on the eggs once and also the female keeps getting up off of the eggs.... any advice or reasoning to this?


Are thy a forced couple?
The reason I ask is because I have two rescues waiting for the weather to warm up for a release. They are in the same large cage. They are opposite sex and did mate. The hen laid two eggs but refuses to lay on them. The male is doing all the work. She seams to be protesting the arrangement.


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## ryan (Mar 17, 2008)

kind of ... i had them locked in a cage for about a month but then i let them go so i think it was voluntary or else they would have gone their separate ways... they have been out of the cage for about a month now.


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## ezemaxima (Jan 12, 2008)

Try removing the hen around 10am. Keep her in another cage and watch what the cock does. Maybe the hen refuses to leave the nest.....


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## ryan (Mar 17, 2008)

ok i will try but i just candled the eggs and they are fertile, how long can they last un-incubated? thanks a lot for your help . another question i have a pair which laid on the ground and are due to hatch any day now and i just checked and there are insects all around the nest, how do i get rid of them , will they harm the chicks?.. thanks


ryan


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Is something chasing them off?*



ryan said:


> ok i will try but i just candled the eggs and they are fertile, how long can they last un-incubated? thanks a lot for your help . another question i have a pair which laid on the ground and are due to hatch any day now and i just checked and there are insects all around the nest, how do i get rid of them , will they harm the chicks?.. thanks
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What are the insects? If they bite or irritate the birds, this could very well be your problem with reluctance to stay in the nest.

I found a finch nest that was loaded with mites or something and it had abandoned eggs and a dead baby in it. For the parents to abandon this nest, they were obviously driven away by these insects.

Try to find a pesticide that is safe for your birds and treat the nests or your entire coop with it. It is said that tobacco stems will keep mites and lice out of nests. I don't know if you can get it but many old pigeon breeders swore by it and gave it to all of their pigeons for nesting material.

Bill


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## ryan (Mar 17, 2008)

this is a different set of eggs from a different pair who laid on the ground. do you have any suggestions of what to spray there besides tobacco stems , they dont grow it here and it would be too hard for me to get.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Can you get diatomaceous earth?*



ryan said:


> this is a different set of eggs from a different pair who laid on the ground. do you have any suggestions of what to spray there besides tobacco stems , they dont grow it here and it would be too hard for me to get.


I'm not sure if I spelled that correctly but you get the idea. It is often sold for swimming pool and aquarium filters. It is supposed to kill lice and mites by sprinkling it on them.

A safe chemical is probably a more sure way of ridding them from the coop or nests. Do you have a pet store or feed store that would sell such things? Make sure that it's safe for birds. If you can find something with Pyrethrins in it, that stuff worked like magic but it is not available in the US anymore that I know of.

Bill


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## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

"DIATOMACEOUS EARTH (DE)
I do have the CFR numbers showing FDA and USDA approval for using Diatomaceous Earth (DE) as a feed additive. I have been studying feeds and feeding for some time now and, about 6 months ago, I started learning all I could about diatomaceous earth. This is a natural pesticide and has no ill effects when used with animals. Be sure to get the food grade diatomaceous earth because it has been approved by the FDA and USDA. (The pool grade and filter grade have not been approved as a feed additive and it may be harmful to use them and they will not accomplish the desired results) This will kill all internal and external parasites, aid in feed conversion, control flies by killing the larvae in manure, control odor, and promote better health and egg laying. This will also kill other insects in your garden, orchard, home, and lawn. It is great for controlling ants. "


"Neem oil has been certified by health authorities in the USA and Europe as being non-toxic to birds, animals and humans. The properties of neem oil support the effectiveness of garlic and ACV. Neem oil can be mixed in with the oil you might place on perches to water proof them. A few drops of neem oil will keep pests such as mites and mosquitos off the perches.
Neem is good support for PMV cases, and makes great preventive treatments for parasites and many diseases. A few drops in the seed dish once a week keeps bugs out of the seed.
+++

Neem oil vs. Mosquitos 

Neem Products repel and affect the development of mosquitoes. In a study, two percent neem oil mixed in coconut oil, when applied to exposed body parts of human volunteers, provided complete protection for 12 hrs. from bites of all anophelines. Kerosene lamps (Not for use around birds) containing 0.01-1% neem oil, lighted in 
rooms containing human volunteers, reduced mosquito biting activity as well as the mosquitoes resting on walls in the rooms; protection was greater against Anopheles than against Culex. Effectiveness of mats with neem oil against mosquitoes has also been demonstrated; the vaporizing repelled mosquitoes for 5-7 hrs at almost negligible cost. The seed kernels of the Neem tree are rich in limonoids, bitter tasting chemicals that effectively block development, feeding and egg laying in many species of insects."

The above is a quote from the bird care e-book I got from the internet. Be careful, getting the wrong stuff can kill your pets.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

jbangelfish said:


> I'm not sure if I spelled that correctly but you get the idea. It is often sold for swimming pool and aquarium filters. It is supposed to kill lice and mites by sprinkling it on them.
> 
> A safe chemical is probably a more sure way of ridding them from the coop or nests. Do you have a pet store or feed store that would sell such things? Make sure that it's safe for birds. If you can find something with Pyrethrins in it, that stuff worked like magic but it is not available in the US anymore that I know of.
> 
> Bill


This is probably why it isn't available any more in the US. 

http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/tfacts155.html


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## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

Charis said:


> This is probably why it isn't available any more in the US.
> 
> http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/tfacts155.html


As you can see, many of us here at Pigeon Talk have gained an honerary degree in chemicals and medicines as a side-effect of being fanciers. Pigeons should come with a warning: "May cause long hours of study and a bulging medicine cabinet".

Your cock just might not be ready for parent hood and they need to practice on wooden eggs.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Yeah, I know*



Charis said:


> This is probably why it isn't available any more in the US.
> 
> http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/tfacts155.html


Read the labels of any pesticide or check the side effects of any medication. They're all poison in some form. That's why I try not to use any of them. Realistically, this is impossible so I keep any of these things to an absolute minimum.

This stuff worked great and I never drank any or put it on my own skin. The actual product came from Pyrethrums, which we all know as daisies.

Diatomaceous earth is a type of clay that comes from the bottom of the ocean. I would trust that it is completely harmless and works by clogging an insects pores. 

Bill


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

jbangelfish said:


> Read the labels of any pesticide or check the side effects of any medication. They're all poison in some form. That's why I try not to use any of them. Realistically, this is impossible so I keep any of these things to an absolute minimum.
> 
> This stuff worked great and I never drank any or put it on my own skin. The actual product came from Pyrethrums, which we all know as daisies.
> 
> ...


Oh Bill...I wasn't concerned with your skin ... I'm sure you would protect your own skin because you can read the label, my concern is for the birds.


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## philodice (Sep 30, 2007)

"DIATOMACEOUS EARTH (DE) - Diatomaceous earth is a mineral product mined from the fossilized silica shell remains of unicellular or colonized algae from the class Bacillariaphyceae, better known as diatoms. 
. When DE comes contact with the insects, the sharp edges lacerate the bugs' waxy exoskeleton and then the powdery DE absorbs the body fluids causing death from dehydration. 
DE sold for swimming pool filters is ineffective for insect control because it has been heated and chemically treated. It won't kill insects and it is very dangerous to breathe."

I would take DE over a neurotoxin any day.  Good thing you weren't drinking it.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*I didn't put it on the bird's skin either*



Charis said:


> Oh Bill...I wasn't concerned with your skin ... I'm sure you would protect your own skin because you can read the label, my concern is for the birds.


The fumes were enough to control lice in pigeon coops or to control thrips in houseplants. Just how good it was for us to be around, I can't be sure. I just know that it was very effective and did not make my pigeons ill.

Does anyone remember Shell Pest Strips? That's what used to be in them. They just hung near the loft or flowers or whatever and the fumes were very effective. The formula changed in them and they were no longer effective.

Bill


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Yes, you are correct*



philodice said:


> "DIATOMACEOUS EARTH (DE) - Diatomaceous earth is a mineral product mined from the fossilized silica shell remains of unicellular or colonized algae from the class Bacillariaphyceae, better known as diatoms.
> . When DE comes contact with the insects, the sharp edges lacerate the bugs' waxy exoskeleton and then the powdery DE absorbs the body fluids causing death from dehydration.
> DE sold for swimming pool filters is ineffective for insect control because it has been heated and chemically treated. It won't kill insects and it is very dangerous to breathe."
> 
> I would take DE over a neurotoxin any day.  Good thing you weren't drinking it.


I love my neurotoxins, I just can't find them anymore.

Bill


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