# Rescued pigeon just laid an egg what do we do?



## Jane (Apr 10, 2003)

Dear everyone,

Our pigeon just laid an egg we are at a bit of a loss to know what to do next. Where should we put the egg? Mum pigeon has just got out the cardboard box and seems a bit agitated (she has a damaged shoulder). She also had a bit of blood in her poops (there hadn't been any before this) just before she laid the egg and there is a bit of blood on the egg is this normal? 

Please help!


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Leave the egg where it is at the moment. She won't start incubating until the second one is layed and that won't be until at least tomorrow. Then it would be wise to replace them with plastic ones just in case they are fertile.

Blood on the egg isn't a healthy sign, they are usually clear and clean. It could be a calcium deficiency. Can you try to get some calcium tablets from the vet or pharmacy? The dose is 20mg every 24 hours (split a 100 mg tablet into 5 pieces). Otherwise oyster shell grit can be obtained from the pet shop.

Hens can get egg bound due to lack of calcium. Under no circumstances should the egg be broken if it gets stuck! Watch her behaviour tomorrow, let us know what is happening and perhaps someone can guide you she has problems. 

Cynthia


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Jane,

It just struck me that this could be the second egg. It was yesterday that you found her, wasn't it? At what time was it? And at what time did she lay the egg?

Cynthia


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Jane
It seems you have only just got the pigeon so sadly you don't know any history. How is she in herself? Does she look bright eyed and alert or is she looking miserable and not doing much? Is she eating and drinking normally?
She may have some internal injuries, or she may have a calcium deficiency. This does not always result in a soft shelled egg. This is usually in the latter stages before they lose the use of their legs.
What many people do not realise is that muscles need calcium to work. If she is calcium deficient this means that she will struggle to expel the egg and this could cause a small blood vessel to rupture resulting in the blood loss you have seen.
This is not something which can be easily diagnosed over the internet and I wouldn't bank on a vet knowing the answer either.
Keep an eye on her and see how she goes on. I'd be surprised if she started incubation as she is obviously not in her chosen spot for nesting so don't worry if she does not sit on it.
A vitamin supplement is a must here for first line defence I think.
Hope this helps.


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## Jane (Apr 10, 2003)

Hi Cynthia,

We found her at about 9-10pm on Wednesday night she laid the egg about half an hour ago, she isn't showing much interest in the egg. How would I find out if it was fertile or not? Jane


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Jane,

I think I read somewhere that the first egg arrives in the morning and the second one in the afternoon, but I can't remember where I read that. Helen (Nooti) would know more about it (she is our Lancashire member and very, very experienced).

Honey probably won't take much notice of the egg. It might have been forming when she had her accident and needed to be laid but she has temporarily lost access to her nest and mate so it will probably be forgotten. Poor little thing, I am so glad that you found her when you did!

I think you can tell whether an egg is fertile with a light after a few days, because the yolk would start being veined with blood vessels. But I have never become involved in hatching (yet).









Cynthia


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

But I have never become involved in hatching (yet). 
And by the way Jose's behaving you probably never will! 
I would forget the egg. She will not sit it - if she does there will be problems because she will take her turn off the egg as though expecting her mate to sit during the day and it will just keep going cold.
She is the main thing to concentrate on right now.


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## Jane (Apr 10, 2003)

Hi Me again!

Honey (our pigeon) has settled now but earlier she was very active and wanted to get out the box she seemed quite agitated. She did eat and drink yesterday and last night or early this morning but she hasn't eaten since as far as I can tell. She doesn't seem ill she is bright eyed. I'm still concerned about the blood in her droppings before she laid the egg and just after it was bright red blood (only a small amount)could this be related to the calcium deficency as well?(if that is what it is). I have bought her some course grit earlier today, will this provide enough of the calcium she needs? 
Regarding the egg if it is fertile how should we look after it? Jane


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Re the egg, if she was not showing any interest in it, and no further egg appears today, I'd say just dump it. It would be difficult to incubate it at the right temperature, and hand-rearing baby pigeons is quite some task, requiring someone to be available for the regular feedings all day and to develop the expertise specific to pigeons and doves. I know it sounds a bit hard, but pigeons' breeding and laying cycle takes account of losses and Honey's own welfare is more important at present.

How is she now? Is she eating and drinking, and are her poops free of blood?

John


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Jane,

As the blood was associated with the egg laying I would give her 20 mg of calcium tablet as a precaution. However, can you have a look at her vent and see if there is any blood or redness showing there?

Don't worry about her agitation/trying to get out of her box...I think that is a healthy sign! A seriously sick pigeon would stay still.

If she ate this morning then it is too soon to worry about her not eating. If she is eating she will poop, so if the poops stop or change you can start worrying.

In the wild feral pigeons eat all the time because they have to. They behave differently when they have enough food.

Follow Helen and John's advice about the egg...at the moment it is just egg white and egg yolk so it doesn't matter if she leaves it. In the circumstances it is best not to let it develop further.

Keep us updated!

Cynthia


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## Jane (Apr 10, 2003)

Thanks for your advice!

Honey does appear to have eaten either late last night or early this morning (the seed is scattered everywhere!). Her droppings also appear a better colour. I will try to look at her vent but she is not too keen about being handled! She is still active and alert and trying to get out of the box!

Jane


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## Jane (Apr 10, 2003)

Ps. How do I get her to eat the calcium tablet? Should I grind it up and put it in her food?


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Hi Jane
Sorry - I've only just managed to get time to check here. I run a wildlife treatment unit and my own business too so things get pretty hectic!
Am I right in saying you think she has not eaten since yesterday morning? This is very easy to check as you can feel her crop to see if you can detect any seed in there. The crop is located from the neck to the top of the breast bone and runs either side of the spinal cord. It is quite safe to squeeze and scrunch it about a bit between your fingers to see if there is any seed in there. It is only a holding bag and if she is not eating a lot then you may find evidence of seed only at the very base of the crop near the breast bone.
Pigeons have a crop as they are a favourite prey of many species and while they are on the ground feeding they are in danger so they eat an enormous amount at one go which is ingested directly into the crop. Then they go and rest up in a safe place while the seed is absorbed down through the alimentary canal and into the proventriculus and gizzard where it is properly digested at leisure - very much like a cow. This is consistent with all seed eaters.
I would not like to say for certain where the blood came from as I would only be hazarding a guess and that could be dangerous, but if it is due to a calcium deficiency then grit will not be enough.
Giving calcium alone is not enough either as the body needs Vitamin D to be able to absorb it. If she is calcium deficient the chances are that she is vitamin deficient too so giving her calcium without the vitamins means her body cannot absorb the calcium and it will be excreted unused.
As for the egg, well I wouldn't worry too much about that. If it is fertile then as it travelled down the oviduct the fertile cell would have split into about 8 cells. There it will stop as the temperature drops upon laying. The eight cells have the ability to remain dormant for anything up to two weeks under optimum conditions and the start of incubation and an increase in the temperature will trigger development.
At the moment it has no brain, heart, lungs - nothing, just an eight celled complex structure of DNA.
Within 36 hours of the start of incubation a heart will have formed and will have started beating. I think that's marvellous when I can lamp an egg at the 36 hour stage and see this tiny blob pumping blood around a very small structure of blood vessels.
I think you have 2 choices with the egg - the bin or the pan! 
Hope this helps.
Helen


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## Jane (Apr 10, 2003)

Could you give me an idea of what vitamin supplement to use, the amount and how to give it to her, thankyou for your help, Jane


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

I use Avimix by VetArk - which is a vet product but in certain places you can buy it over the counter. Try a large supermarket type pet store if you have one near you. 
Failing that email me privately with your address and I'll put some in post to you first class Monday morning.
You only need a small amount on a daily basis and I mix with water and give orally using a small 1ml syring which any vet should let you have if you ask.

[This message has been edited by Nooti (edited April 12, 2003).]


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

How's it going, Jane?

Cynthia


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## Jane (Apr 10, 2003)

Hello everyone,

Honey seems to be doing well, she is alert and active and keeps making a big mess of her box! While I cleaned her out she had an explore and hopped up the stairs and seemed quite content looking down on us! (I carried her back down) I'm not sure that she is eating I tried to feel her crop but I couldn't really work out where it was. The food bowl had been emptied this morning but I wasn't sure if any had been eaten as she spreads it around the box. I will try to get hold of the vitamin supplement tomorrow- is there a trick to getting her to open her beak and is there anything I should be aware of I don't want her to choke. I had a quick look at her vent and it didn't look red. Her droppings seem normal they do appear a bit wet around the actual dropping but otherwise they seem the right colour!
No sign of another egg but I think she might be a young hen and I have read that they might only have one. Thank you all for your help and support, Jane


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Hi Jane
Any part of the lower neck/upper chest area which you can squidge and only feel skin between your fingers is the crop. It's huge - or sems like it at times and goes right around the neck, so anywhere between just below the beak to the top of the breast bone. You should have been able to feel seed although it is difficult for a novice as sometimes they are too nervous to squeeze properly.
To give the vit supp you need to stretch the neck straight and open the beak - it's quite tough and can take it, the syringe will actually go right down and into the crop but as long as you go past the trachea entrance you should be ok.
I'm going to be away next couple of days but Cynthia has my phone number should there be a problem.
Cynthia, I just had a thought. I may not be able to have my mobile on when I'm actually in the hospital so you may have to leave a voice message.
Catch you later.


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Jane,

Glad Honey sounds so well. I have difficulty feeling the crop, despite having 18 pigeons! I know where it is and I know what I should be feeling but I can never identify it in practice. 

When I first looked into a pigeon's mouth the only hole that I could see was the gaping hole of the trachea in the moddle of the tongue, and I thought that was the throat. So be very, very careful when administering liquids. It is safest to put the nozzle of the syringe close to the beak on the right hand side of the pigeon's mouth (the pigeon's right hand side) and let it trickle in very slowly. 

Cynthia


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## Jane (Apr 10, 2003)

Thanks for your advice Cynthia, I was rather worried about getting it in the wrong hole! As it happens I couldn't get hold of the Avimix Helen suggested I felt sure that one of the pet stores (and we tried many)would stock it but nope! So I settled with a multi vitamin for birds and I've put some in her water and alittle on her food (as directed) The calcium is a little more difficult I bought one of those mineral blocks and I have ground up alittle and put it in her food as well as leaving the block in her box just in case she knows what she needs. The good news is that I have seen her eating this afternoon and I am somewhat relieved! Jane


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Jane, 

Sounds as if you have done as much as you can for now then. Just watch her carefully and post here if there are any changes.

Eggshells are themselves a good source of calcium. If you microwave them for about 5 minutes and then crush them very small she will enjoy them.

Cynthia


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## Jane (Apr 10, 2003)

Just a quick update:

Honey is eating well and is very active this evening when I tried to pick her up to put her back in her box (after cleaning it out) she decided she was having none of it and flew towards the sliding doors leading on to the garden! Fortunately (because I had noticed her take rather too much interest in them before) I had closed the curtains and she came to a soft landing. She flew well (upward flight from the floor) however she is still holding the wing away from her body at rest. If she is able to fly even with the shoulder damage should I think about releasing her in the near future? Jane


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Hi Jane,

She is making good progress but I think that it might be better to confine her just for a while and let her rest the wing in case she sprains it again by flying or lacks the strength to fly in strong winds.

Can you make make her a temporary cage? Something like a linen basket would do, especially one of those plastic ones with square holes. You could turn it on its side and line it with a towel covered by kitchen toweling. 

Cynthia


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

Hello,

I see blood on alot of the eggs laid on my balcony by the feral hens.. I've never seen it on Pearl (My pet pigeon's eggs though)

Thanks for the info Cynthia.

Mary


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

That reminds me, Mary - sometimes when I bought farm fresh eggs, there would occasionally be a trace of blood on one. I have always assumed it is simply that some chickens - as some people - find 'giving birth' (if one can equate that to egg laying) more difficult than others, and sometimes blood vessels may be broken.

John


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

Farm fresh eggs aren't from free range chickens, John. Even so, I very much doubt whether any egg producer would care about an individual hen's health! It is only if the symptoms indicated there was a problem that might spread and affect large numbers (and their profits) that they would worry.

Cynthia


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## John_D (Jan 24, 2002)

Oh, I'm going back years - the 'good old days' (some say) when you popped into the ol farmstead and bought them direct. (not that that means they always looked after their chickens properly, I admit)

John


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

The calcium is a little more difficult 
*****************************************
Don't forget grated cuttlefish bone! 
Glad things are going well.


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

My pigeons LOVE cuttle bone!!!!!

Pearl just loves it, it's like a spongy bone thingy and when I crach it up she likes eating it.

Egg shells are good too after cooked in the microwave then crushed up but I think that cuttle bone can actually be ground up into a fine powder and perhaps be put into a formula for tube feeding? (Haven't tried it yet)

Mary


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## Jane (Apr 10, 2003)

Hello there!

Just a quick update:

Honey is doing well she is very active and she seems alot stronger than she was. She is eating well and occasionally she still tries to get out of her box. We tried giving her the outdoor experience today with one of those rabbit runs but unfortunately she just kept trying to get out so we put her back in her box (which apart from the occasional flutter) she seems quite content in. She is still holding her wing at an odd angle but she seems more and more determined to break for the skies! (Which must be a healthy sign!) She is a very pretty pigeon with a lovely pink neck and that lovely iriedescent coloured collar. Her plumage is in very good condition so I imagine she must be a young bird. We have become quite attached to her but it would be wonderful to see her fly free! Jane


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