# Fate Just Sucks.



## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

I'm just venting as I don't think there's anything I can do to help this bird at present.

I've been hand rearing a fledgling Dunnock, and she's done so well. In fact she started to self feed a bit yesterday. So today she's buzzing, flying all over the cage and eating well.

My daughter and I were about to drive her and a baby Magpie I've been rearing to the rescue centre as they were going put her with other Sparrows ready for release.

I just decided to do something before we set off and popped on here to see if I had any response to another post. In the time I was on here my daughter called me in a panic as she found the bird bleeding badly from it's foot.
I don't know how on earth it's happened, but it's lost two toes and a lot of blood, now in shock. I'm gutted as if we'd set off an hour ago she would have been ok.
Timing was everything, fate dealt a cruel blow just by us delaying leaving.

I don't know if she'll make it and how much losing these toes will affect her chances in the wild even if she does pull through. I feel so bad.

My daughter doesn't want to take her now as she feels the 40 minute drive will be too much for her. Perhaps we'll keep her overnight and see what happens.
Excuse the rant, I'm just gutted as last week I lost three birds and was so pleased that this one had made it.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

Sorry to hear about the mishap. Hope the little bird will be ok. I don't know what a Dunnock is, but I'm going to google is now.

PS: Here's a link in case someone wants to see what this little guy looks like. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunnock


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I think it will be fine without his toes, when he heals. seems feet heal pretty quick. need to find out how in that cage toes could get caught, If yo can not find it I would get a another one. some rehab folks here use this.a laundry basket with screen held on with elastic.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Lovebirds said:


> Sorry to hear about the mishap. Hope the little bird will be ok. I don't know what a Dunnock is, but I'm going to google is now.
> 
> PS: Here's a link in case someone wants to see what this little guy looks like. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunnock


Thanks for that link Renee, I learnt some new bits from that. 
This little one hasn't got it's full tail yet and is quite golden in colour, very sweet chappie.

I've spoken to the rescue centre and have decided not to take it today and keep it on heat and in the dark to see if it makes it overnight. The journey and change of location might be stressful enough on it's own, and that's all they would do anyway.
I'm still sick we didn't go earlier, I had wanted to go yesterday but my daughter didn't !!, so she said would it be ok if we left it to today. Turns out No it wouldn't, but we weren't to know, what a difference a day makes, or an hour as it happens.
Just got to hope the loss of toes are the only injury. If it's wings are ok then maybe it can adapt.
I'm keeping all my fingers and toes crossed for it now.

Janet


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi just saw your post after I'd sent mine.
That looks a good idea with the basket.

I've looked hard and really can't see what could have happened.
I had surrounded the cage with branches outside to screen it so it could sit under the trees. It responded to all the other bird's chatter going on.

I wonder if maybe a magpie heard it and came down. It just could have poked it's beak through the bars and caught it. But those minute toes would have been hard to catch hold of unless it was clinging onto the bars of the cage possibly. It's a big cage and it could have got away easily enough.
There's just been a row in the garden with three Magpies chasing some Blackbirds and Stock Doves, a few feathers flying there.

I'm clueless to be honest. (no comments to that please!!).


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I am so sorry, Janet. As well as keeping the baby warm prepare some rehydration solution and hopefully he will drink it as he will need to replace the lost body fluids.

Cynthia


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## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

amyable said:


> Hi Renee, just saw your post after I'd sent mine.
> That looks a good idea with the basket.
> 
> I've looked hard and really can't see what could have happened.
> ...


yes, I would of proboably kept him inside in a quiet spot with a cover part way, I know when I rehabed a cardinal he would get too excited when I put him outside on the porch, had to move him in so he stayed calmer, also if the bird felt threatened , He was thrashing about for some reason, and got his toes caught and then that freaked him out and there ya go, it is so crappie, but sometimes they just get in to trouble, it is an accident. best of luck to him.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Well some good news. He's rallied and come out of his shock, and wants to eat.

I did manage to give him some Aconite when it happened to try and counteract the shock. Now he's gaping again for food, I've just popped some Arnica into him to try and relieve any pain and bruising.

He is moving about by flapping his wings though, and he's holding the leg up high. I've tried to feel if it's broken but can't tell and I don't want to panic him any more. If he's up to it I might still take him tomorrow and see if anyone at the rescue centre can check it out.

Janet


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## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

Janet, homeopathic hypericum is good for crushing injuries to the extremities, particularly when there is nerve damage. I dissolve the remedy in spring water, then administer a couple of drops in the beak with a dropper (this method helps particularly with birds prone to stress from handling).


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Thanks Jenfer, I did manage to give him some Hypericum when he was gaping for food. I crushed a tablet and popped it in bit by bit with a pair of tweezers. He's so tiny and gets so stressed if I try to open his mouth.

I wanted to give him another Aconite, but he wouldn't play ball this time, and kept his mouth firmly closed.

In fact, you might be able to advise me here, I wasn't sure if Arnica or Aconite was the best at this stage seeing as I don't know exactly what's wrong with the whole leg now. He still can't use it. Maybe he's just holding it up due to the pain in his foot, or maybe if he did struggle and trapped his foot, he might have broken or strained the leg, with the end result losing his toes.
Or do you think Hypericum is the best for him all round now by itself?

I'm tempted to keep him a while longer so I can give him some meds as I don't expect he'll get anything once I hand him over.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I would keep him another week at least.


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## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

Janet, actually I don't open their beaks to give remedies. I just squeeze in a few drops from outside their beaks so the liquid wicks in. Another way to do it is to dissolve the remedy and use a paintbrush to paint it on the gums.

Aconite well help settle him if he's really frightened. It's good for that sheer terror that many species experience in captivity. Arnica is good for bruising and muscle-type injuries. If you think he's got bone pain, you could try Ruta grav.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi,

Well he's really pulled through the shock and is buzzing again.

Jenfer, thanks for the info. I have been able to get him to take the meds now disolved in water from a dropper. In fact he loves to drink from the end of the dropper, so it is easy to get them into him. He won't open his mouth at all since yesterday as he wants to be a big boy/girl, and feed himself. Luckily hunger is getting to him and he is gaping for food again now, he can't self feed as he can't balance on his one leg yet.

His leg is dragging behind him now, and I have tried to feel and can't find an obvious break or damage. So I don't know really which meds would be best.
I spoke to the rescue centre again today to see if they would splint or strap it if they were able to identify what exactly is wrong.
They said not as their legs are so small. They did say it could be dislocated at the hip if it's dragging, so I'm going to keep him for a few more days to see if it settles or he gets any more movement back.

Based on not knowing the problem, is it ok to give him Hypericum, Arnica and Rhuta at different intervals in the hope one is helping? or is that counter productive?

Janet


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## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

I haven't done it, but I've heard of rehabbers splinting sparrow legs with masking tape. Can you keep him relatively immobile?

I think I would give him the hypericum and ruta at different intervals and drop the arnica. Ruta is good for bone/tendon pain and I've found it helpful for fractures.


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## AliBlack (Sep 8, 2003)

Tiny legs can be splinted with good results, checking after 5 days. I persoanlly wouldn't put a bird outside in a cage, I would have him indoors in a cage (I don't use small budgie cages though) or tank until he's weaned and then put him in an aviary. I would worry putting a bird outside in a small cage would stress the bird, and cats (or corvids and and sparrowhawks) may stress them or try to grab them. If a bird has a suspected broken leg I would keep in a tank (or cat or dog carrier for larger birds) as catching the leg in the cage bars may make the injury worse.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

jenfer said:


> I haven't done it, but I've heard of rehabbers splinting sparrow legs with masking tape. Can you keep him relatively immobile?


Yes I'm keeping him in a small softly padded box. He keeps fluttering out when I'm feeding him, but he's generally immobile.
I think it's Les Stocker's book that recommends using a feather quill as a splint for a Sparrow type of leg and masking tape, I know I read it recently.
I've not had experience of doing it and as I can't find a break I'd be concerned that I could cause him far more pain by trying to fix it in a position that hurts.
I'll just have leave it to see if rest does anything.

He actually hadn't been outside permanently just for that morning while we were getting ready to take them to the centre. He's been living on my dining room table in fact. His cage was completely hidden and covered with branches I'd cut from the trees to cover the cage and hide him so he couldn't see much, much like his natural habitat in hedges. That's why it's so tragic really.

This cage is ideal for hand rearing though as the top opens up completely, so you can get at the bird from above which is better. As I don't have an aviary it gives them plenty of space to try their wings out too. I'll just have to line the inside to cover the bars for tiny birds in future or use a laundry basket set up like Spirit Wings showed me.

I still feel bad about it, so I'm trying to give him the best care I can. Thanks for the advice.

Janet


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## AliBlack (Sep 8, 2003)

Well you're doing all you can Janet  And these accidents happen unfortunately, I still make mistakes after rehabbing for 6 years and having cared for hundreds of birds, and feel horribly guilty afterwards too, so I know how it feels 
Thank you for caring


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi,

Can anyone tell me if I should give a small bird this size anti-biotics?
If so how do I calculate the amount as he weighs virtually nothing.

I found an open wound at his hip today which I hadn't seen before. This may explain why he hold his leg out at the back.

He is very perky still and is eating and drinking well. He has got very used to me handling him.

His thigh is very red and I'm concerned there maybe an infection brewing, but I don't know for sure, it just maybe sore. I am bathing it with Hypercal Tincture for the moment.

My vets said they will look at him but I have to leave him there for them to decide what, if anything they can do. Obviously I'm concerned they may just PTS. I feel if this is his main problem he could do ok if I could just get it to heal up. I want to try what I can.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks 

Janet


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## AliBlack (Sep 8, 2003)

Hi Janet, yes you can give anti-b's to the tiniest bird, he'll be about 20 grams, will you be giving baytril or synulox? Synulox would be best if poss. let me know what drug you are using and I can work out the dose rate for you, ok?
If the worst comes to the worst vets can amputate a leg if it is damaged beyond repair. Little birds can manage quite well in the wild with one leg, always depends on what species of course, but a dunnock could cope ok, you would have to see that he gets about ok of course and can perch ok and take off and hop about, Hopefully it won't come to that though.
Get the vet to check and feel for breaks/dislocation (and sign of infection-does it smell?) and if unsure they can x ray to check for breaks or dislocation and then take it from there? If the femur is broken the vets may be able to pin it, if the tibia or metatarsus is broken and is a simple break then you may be able to splint yourself or get them to do it. Hopefully it is just sore and that's why he's not using that leg. I would bathe the wound with liquid savlon in water which has boiled and then cooled/still warm.
Unfortunately most vets aren't trained in dealing with wild birds  Hopefully you have one who is good with birds.



amyable said:


> Hi,
> 
> Can anyone tell me if I should give a small bird this size anti-biotics?
> If so how do I calculate the amount as he weighs virtually nothing.
> ...


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

AliBlack said:


> Hi Janet, yes you can give anti-b's to the tiniest bird, he'll be about 20 grams, will you be giving baytril or synulox? Synulox would be best if poss. let me know what drug you are using and I can work out the dose rate for you, ok?


Thanks Ali,

I have both Noroclav, which I believe is generic Synulox, and Baytril.

I don't have enough Synulox for a full course if it was a pigeon but I expect the dose will be far smaller so hopefully I'll have enough for this little one.

Unfortunately my vets isn't really a bird specialist. I don't have one around here. I do tend to think it's only sore as it does move it.

He's been fluttering around and learning to perch and balance on one leg. he's doing reasonably ok with that. He's even starting to self feed, so I would like to try and keep him going if possible.

Janet


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## AliBlack (Sep 8, 2003)

Hi Janet, I'm not familiar with Noroclav, but with Synulox I have 250mg tablets and crush one finely and mix with 7.5ml sterilised water (which I get from the vets) and keep it in the fridge, it keeps about 10 days to 2 weeks, for a 20g bird I would give 0.05ml (using a 1ml syringe carefully and slowly down the back of the throat) of this solution twice a day, so 0.05ml each time at least 8 hours apart. For at least 5 days.

Baytril-I use the 2.5% oral liquid, for a dunnock the amount would be only 0.016ml once a day, approx every 24 hours, such a tiny amount that I often just tip a tiny paint brush in baytril and either hold it at the tip of his beak and he may take the brush, if not, open the beak at the hinge, not the tip, and dap the brush at the front of the tongue, avoiding the back of the tongue where the airhole (glottis) is. At least 5 days.

At the end of the course of anti-biotics give a small amount (0.05-0.1ml) of natural yoghurt, again with a brush or 1ml syringe as a probiotic.

Hope that helps!




amyable said:


> Thanks Ali,
> 
> I have both Noroclav, which I believe is generic Synulox, and Baytril.
> 
> ...


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## jenfer (Jan 7, 2008)

Janet, the hypercal solution should help it heal up. If you have it, you can give calendula orally as well. I've also used aloe vera juice to bathe wounds and it seems to be very soothing.

I wouldn't leave the bird at the vet either. If they are going to take decisions out of your hands, I think he's better off with you.

Jennifer


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## james fillbrook (Jan 2, 2009)

well you got it right about fate sucks


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi, Thanks for that info Ali, the Noroclav comes in the same strength, so that's ok. I will have a closer look tomorrow to see if it looks worse before I go ahead, but that should be no problem giving it to him as he drinks really well from a dropper.

Jenfer,

I have Calendula, will get him onto that tonight for a start. Also have Aloe vera, I put it the pigeons water every few days.
I think I'm going to give him Enzymes aswell to boost his system. Going in all guns blazing to try and help him over this. 

Thanks so much both,

Janet


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## AliBlack (Sep 8, 2003)

How's he doing Janet?


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi Ali,

Well I don't know what to do to be honest. I've been in bits all day trying to decide how to help him.

This open wound is right at the thigh, almost like the skin is torn, but the problem is the limb underneath keeps poking through the skin when he moves the leg. I bathed it again this morning and what seemed like a small scab came away, very tiny so can't be sure what it was. I was trying to make sure there were no feathers in the hole. 

The problem is I can't see how it will ever heal if his leg can't be stopped from moving. He is getting quite tame and so it doesn't scare him for me to examine him luckily, but he does struggle when I have to turn him upside down. However I thought I'd lost him this morning as he put up with a lot while I cleaned him up and he started panting. I gave him Aconite for shock and he pulled through again after an hour.
Now he's back to his old self and eating and drinking as usual, really perky in fact. 
So this makes it hard to see how I can physically do anything for him in the way of strapping the leg, he is so, so tiny. I just don't have the know how.

It is so frustrating as I think if this could be stablilized so the skin can heal over, then this might hold his leg in the normal position, enough for him to use the leg for balance regardless of the missing toes.
He sits in my hand and he has the leg tucked under him then, he just sticks it out at the back when he moves, but he just won't sit still all day.

I need a really experienced avian vet I would think as opposed to my local vet, as I fear they won't do anything if they see it, but he is such a little fighter I can't bear to just let him go without trying something else.

I want to try and see if I can find a vet somewhere that can help, but wonder whether I'm expecting too much. If I can't find help i don't know what will happen to him as I can't possibly set him free, and he can't go on with this wound as it is.

I just wonder what would happen to this type of wound if it was just left. I just imagine that if the edges don't meet and he keeps opening up the hole by moving his leg, the skin will never get a chance to heal up.

Any thoughts?

Janet


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi,

An update to my last post as I wrote it late last night, and having had to make an emergency trip to the vets this morning for my dog, took the opportunity to talk to my vet about the bird.

He was quite prepared to see him but from what I said would not recommend or attempt to stitch the skin, it's far too thin. To strap the leg, even if able to do it successfully with such a small bird, would probably stop it healing. So he just sugggested seeing what nature does with it as he feared any intervention would kill him from stress. He doesn't think just the skin healing over would give the leg stability, so feels he must have injured the joint/bone if it's lying backwards.

The bird does have movement in the leg, but not good control, so just maybe he will find a position that feels comfortable and use it to help him balance eventually.

He also said he would manage well with one leg but as far as the wound goes, it will have to sort itself out.

So maybe he will need to find a forever home where he can live outside and see other birds, but stay safe. Or if it heals over ok, have a soft release, if I can find some other Dunnocks coming and going he can join with.

For the time being he needs to stay put and see what happens for a while.
He's quite happy to sit in my hand so maybe he's gone past releasing now anyway.

Janet


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## kbbigman (Jun 4, 2009)

Oh Janet you sound like you have been thru so much with this little one, please keep trying for him, you are giving him so much love and attention he has just got to pull thru. 
Was your dog ok? I know the site is primarily for birds but I'm a dog nut been owned by a GSD and a StaffiX.


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi kbbigman, Nice to meet you.

Thanks I am so determined to try and make things up to this little chap, he's such a sweet thing.

Yes my dog wrenched a dew claw and it was hanging off and bleeding like a river.  The vet had to cut the rest off which made Blake screech in pain. But should settle down and is on anti-biotics to help.
I have two Shelties but this one is more the size of a Rough Collie/ Lassie type.
He's so hates strangers touching him and has bitten this vet before, but today bless him, he sat on the floor and actually lifted his bad paw up for the vet to see. I think he knew he needed this man's help today !!!

Do put some pictures fo your dogs up in an album in your profile for us to see. Love to see people's dogs and other pets just as much as the birds.

Janet


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

I am sorry to hear Janet, sad story and is truly unfortunate!

Keep us in touch,


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

Just thought I'd post a picture of him as he has started to love sitting in my hands, then fluttered onto the computer keyboard. He likes company.

Please meet the latest member of PT. 










This is a picture of his injured left leg, see how it sits behind him. he can fold it under him when he sits.


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## chriss80 (May 6, 2007)

Such a sweet thing. I wish him well fast recovery!


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## mr squeaks (Apr 14, 2005)

He reminds me sooo much of a Sparrow one of our members (Susan) in Australia has: Spoggy. The bird has captured their hearts and is a part of the family.

What a cutie!! SURE wish him all the VERY BEST with 

Loves, Hugs and Scritches

Shi


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## kbbigman (Jun 4, 2009)

Hi Janet, hope Blake's getting over his ordeal, it's awful when they do that, Ellie has split hers in half before, we don't need to worry bout Missie catching her's though as she lays and files them with her teeth until they are like razor sharp hooks, which I have seen her slit a duvet cover with before and plenty of times slice my arms if I'm playing with her, I think that's why she started doing it so she had weapons!!! Have put some pics up for reference, hope you enjoy them !!


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## amyable (Jul 7, 2007)

I just thought I'd update on the sad outcome.

Little 'Un', as she was called died this morning so unexpectedly.

Up to now, she had been doing so well and had become part of the family. The wound at her thigh healed up really well and with bathing the scabs came away and it looked perfect. Unfortunately, it didn't stabilize the leg and she still generally held it out at the back, but it did start to have movement, and she had learnt how to pull it up underneath her and she actually used it like a crutch.
With all the handling she became very tame and every evening I would have her out of the cage and she would have a fly around the lounge, sit on my shoulder, or sit on the computer keyboard while I was on the computer. Before bed, she would sit in my hands and doze off.

The other day I was chatting on Skype to Maria, (Taralotti), in New Zealand, and she was watching her on the video link buzzing around and hopping up my arm to sit on my shoulder. She was doing really well.

She was very greedy, and would call as soon as she heard my voice for more worms. I found if I cut a twig off my roses, covered with green fly, she would sit and pick them off one by one. Also she loved eating ants and ant larvae. Funny really, I always used to curse the geen fly and ants, but suddenly they were in great demand, and she loved them. She loved bathing too, and I would find her wet sometimes where she had sat in the drinking fountain in the cage. This morning was no exception.

Two days ago, she was using the leg in a better position, and even balancing with the one good toe on a perch, but I could see she still hadn't got good control, it was unstable more at the body level. This is where I think she might have had a break, or dislocation of that joint. But as she was so bright I had decided to setup an outside area for her to see how she'd manage in a natural environment. I was hoping she could eventually live in an aviary environment with other birds, but if not she would stay with me as a pet, I promised her I wouldn't let her down as I felt so responsible for her condition.

Yesterday she was holding her leg out at the back more than usual, and was very restless, however she was eating like a horse, and just as lively.
This morning though, when I opened her cage, she looked unstable and kept spreading her wings for balance which was unusual.
I just sensed she was in pain, and as I walked about with her in my hands doing jobs and she would tuck her head under her wing and doze.
I gave her some Aconite and she rallied and started to call again for her worms. I put her on some heat and covered her box to keep her still.

I just knew she was going today, but I didn't know why, or what had suddenly gone wrong, but I just knew she wasn't going to make it. I kept checking on her and she got out of her box at one time and was still calling for more worms, so I hoped I might be wrong.
However, after a while she had started to sit with her head tucked away again. I was rushing to get my daughter off on a holiday, and as soon as I was free was going to devote the rest of the day if necessary, and just sit with her in my hands, so she wasn't alone.

I'm sad as she passed before I could get back to her, I so wanted to be with her. She was such a fighter and such a sweet heart, and I miss her sitting here tonight so much.

Bless your big heart Little 'Un', but I am just so glad you're free of pain now.

Janet


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## Feefo (Feb 8, 2002)

I am so sorry Janet, she was such a sweet, brave little thing. Thank you for giving her such a lot of tender care and love.

Cynthia


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