# My pigeon started circling and twisting his neck



## topmop

Hello

I have a pair of Clasic old frills. They are 4 weeks old and breeder told me they will become adult with in one more month.

Today evening i was watching them as i use to do daily for couple of hours. And for the first time one of them started Cooing. And i was so happy. Then wtih i kept watching them untill the dark spreads. And then suddenly that male pigeon who cooed for the first time that day, fly down from the bar to looft ground and started twisting his neck in strange way, first i thought he is trying to attract the female but then it kept circling and circling with twisting his neck in strage way. What is that ? I am so scared to even watch him that way. He was so healty just few moments ago, and now he is showing as if he have some deadly disease ????

Please help me i am so sad. How can he get sick with in moments while i am watching him ?


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## Charis

He *probably* is practicing his mating skills although a picture or video of what he is doing would be helpful. Have you had pigeons before?


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## topmop

the only medicine i have is Enrofloxacine 10%, not baytril its some other vet brand. i gave them this anti bactarial last week for 5 days (1 CC in 1 litter of water).


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## topmop

yes i have, i know how they circle to attract female, but this one is not donig that, he looks up to the looft bar with his head twisted sideways then it circle while twisted his neck. Sometimes he stand still normally then after few seconds again he twist his neck sideways looks up and circle as he is trying to follow his neck angle. some times he loose his balance doing that.


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## topmop

my looft is on roof top, it is dark there now, i will try to get some light there to see whats going on now and if i can get pic or video


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## Charis

topmop said:


> the only medicine i have is *Enrofloxacine 10%*, not baytril its some other vet brand. i gave them this anti bactarial last week for 5 days (1 CC in 1 litter of water).


That's basically the same thing as baytril. Why were you giving that to them?
With water treatment you nave know if the bird is getting enough medicine. You can use the liquid as an individual treatment too but to give you a recommended dose, you would need to weight the pigeon.
Tell me, do rodents or roaches get into your loft?


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## topmop

well, here is the tragic story, When i first brought 2 pigeons, they stayed healthy for 1 month, infact Very healthy, but after a month i opened the looft door so they can wonder around. for almost one hour they did not even tried to come out and kept wondering inside my 15Ft x 7 Ft (4 ft high) looft, but suddenly there was some firework cracker exploded by a neighbourhood kid, they both get scared and flew, one of them just go sit at a higher place inside looft, but other one circled inside looft and then flied out of the open door and never looks back, he flewed away. I was sad for few days then for the sack of lonely pigeon i brought 2 more, these 2 were bit lazy, i even asked breeder/shopkeeper that they dont seem as active as last ones, he said it is just because of hot weather so i brought them, One of them got sick after just one day, He was breathing from his mouth open all the time, with in 12 hours he was having loose wings and mouth still open and heavy breathing, i took him to the breeder, he refused to exchange saying they were ok here, there must be something wrong in your feed etc. he suggested me to go to veterinary medical store and get erythrocin 250 mg tablet and give its 1/4th part to the pigeon and he will be well with in one hour. When i went to veternary store and asked for erytrocin he suggested to use Enrofloxacine 10% for prevention of bactarial diseases, he said i can mix 1 cc Enrofloxacine 10% in 1 litter of water and give it to all pigeons for few days, they will stay healthy.

so i came back, gave erythrocin to the pigeon but no dice, he died with in 4 hours.

After that i used Enrofloxacine 10% for 5 days last week so that other pigones dont get bacteria. 

No roaches, but i have seen a squirrel who keep climbing on the walls and might woder around looft too but i think he cant enter inside. other then that ants usually come to pick up pigeon feed which is droped on the floor.


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## Skyeking

Check the following links to see if your birds have same symptoms:

PMV: 
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=88668&postcount=1


Paratyphoid:

http://www.siegelpigeons.com/asked-paratyphoid.html


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## Charis

Do review the links Skyeking gave you.
The treatment for Enrofloxacine via the water is a minimum of 7 days with 10 days being more usual dose. You see, if you don't treat long enough the result can be a resistance to the antibiotic.
The pill form of enfrofloxiacine the fellow suggested you give your sick pigeon was 6 times more than should have been given. For individual treatment you can give 2 drops of the liquid 10%, directly down the bird's throat, 1 time a day for 10 days. With a weight, I could give you a more exact recommended dose.
The pigeon that was breathing hard could have had a respiratory infection or even canker.
Have you treated your pigeons for canker?


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## topmop

Skyeking said:


> Check the following links to see if your birds have same symptoms:
> 
> PMV:
> http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=88668&postcount=1
> 
> 
> Paratyphoid:
> 
> http://www.siegelpigeons.com/asked-paratyphoid.html



thanks for guidance, i checked the links, as i mentioned it happened just tonight infront of my eyes , before that i can only see below symptoms which might similar to some of i see in the link.


Turning in circles (Yes for the first time it started this evening, he was ok just few seconds ago)
Thin broken solid droppings in a pool of liquid (i have seen him doing totally watery dropping but not all the time- most of the time droppings were thick and green with white outline)
Crash landing - hmm i have seen him trying to reach highest bar of looft following other pigeon and failed to do so, then he attempt again and can do it. Since he crash his attempt only once or twice so i thought may be he is too young and heavy to fly easily like other)

Twisting neck, head upside down - Since he started acting up today evening and right now he is sitting in a dark corner on the floor so i cant tell you if neck is twisted permanently, what i have seen is that a moment he is ok, next moment he turn is neck to left like he is looking up with left eye then try to follow that angle and keep circling that way"


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## topmop

Charis said:


> Do review the links Skyeking gave you.


Thanks, i checked, Oh my God it seems so hard to keep pigeons, so many diseases they can get. I was told pigeons are hardy birds, but why my piegons are not ok, I suspect the 2 pigeons i got later were infected, one died and this is other one showing symptoms. i keep looft very clean. There is only their droppings and i clean them every few days. I see in pictures people have so dirty loofts, filled with droppings but their pigeons stay healthy.



Charis said:


> The treatment for Enrofloxacine via the water is a minimum of 7 days with 10 days being more usual dose. You see, if you don't treat long enough the result can be a resistance to the antibiotic.


I am so sorry i did mistake



Charis said:


> The pill form of enfrofloxiacine the fellow suggested you give your sick pigeon was 6 times more than should have been given.


I gave 1/4th part of 250 mg tab. not full tab. I mashed the tab, divided it in 4 parts and put one part in beak of that pigeon with hand. he did phooooo and some of that powder goes out but most went in.



Charis said:


> For individual treatment you can give 2 drops of the liquid 10%, directly down the bird's throat, 1 time a day for 10 days. With a weight, I could give you a more exact recommended dose.


Its 12:23 am here, can i give him in the morning ? right now he managed to crawl under a nest box which is few inches high from floor. I feel so sorry for him. i use to watch them daily for hours, flying around and playing



Charis said:


> The pigeon that was breathing hard could have had a respiratory infection or even canker.
> Have you treated your pigeons for canker?


I am not much expert , I told the bird seller that i will come to him if they get sick and he will have to suggest me medicine, and he promised he will. And as i mentioned above thats why i did. 

I even asked the seller if there is any vaccine i can give to them, he said you got only 2 birds you dont need it, you need vaccine if you have tens of birds. I know it is silly argument, even one bird can get the virus.


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## Charis

What I'm telling you is that 1/4 pill you gave is 6 times more than the recommended dose.
When you have a sick pigeon, it's very important to separate that bird from the others and give the bird supportive care. Supportive care means bringing the bird inside so you can watch it, see if it's eating and drinking and pooping. If the bird isn't eating...hand feed until the bird can or will eat on it's own. During this time, you can medicate too. 
Please, in the morning, bring the sick pigeon inside.

It could be the seller doesn't know whats wrong with the bird. You don't know and neither do I. It could be bacterial and it could be viral or both. It's impossible to know without diagnostics. Clearly, the bird seller doesn't understand how to medicate. 
I know you are very concerned about your birds. It's very clear from the lengths you gone to to help them.


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## topmop

Hello Charis, Skyeking and all

its 6 AM, He is out of the corner and trying to fly around with 2nd pigeon. I made a video of him, please check and let me know what you think ? He is such a beauty, i am sad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4SkFfvrXxg

Last night when he started doing that, i think he got pannic and thats why in his attempt to fly above the bar where he use to spend night, he kept circling in frustration. Now he is trying to manage it and not circling but still twisting his head. He tried to fly and droped as you guys say crash landing. I dont find any non normal droppings there so far.

Please help and reply as soon as possible. Should i give him Enrofloxacine 10% directly ? 2 drops ?


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## Charis

So he is eating okay? He can pick up seeds? He can drink?
Personally, I would start him on the enrofloxcine drops.
He is beautiful. I think it's very likely he will be okay. Even if he does have a virus, he can recover as long as you make sure he gets food and water,


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## topmop

He is eating and drinking ok so far, i gave him enrofloxcine drops in the morning.

During the day he was calm and not much twists, specially when he stay calm there are no twists. His droppings are solid, and green with very little whitish border

In the evening he was again getting ready to fly to the top bar of looft where he use to spend night , and whenever he see above he get the twist. If he dont see above, he is almost normal.

I have the evening video but it is almost similar to morning one. so i am not uploading it for now.

He is not circling now as he is getting use too of his condition and just twisting his head mostly when he try to see up.

Will this get worst day by day ?


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## Quazar

I would also confine the bird to a cage or box & not let it fly for at least a couple of days, and see if symptoms get less.
Ideally, if you set up the box or cage so that the bird can see out the side, but cover the top so that it is not trying to look up.
Not so sure its any illness, although not ruling that out, but wondering if it has flown up into something in the loft and possibly a knock on its back has done temp nerve damage. These symptoms seem to show more when the bird stretches to try to look up so is a possibility, also as you say the birds are young & new, so possibly something spooked him in the loft which he may not be 100% familiar with. 
It also tends to hold its head slightly to the one side even when pecking (always the same side)
Have a gentle feel of its back around where its legs & wings join the body for any slight swelling or irregularity, or even if it feels sligtly warmer around those points.
May not be any excessive damage, but even a small sudden blow around that area can cause those symptoms.
If it is nerve damage, it can usually heal ok, but difficult to put any time scale on it, may be a couple of days, maybe weeks, important thing is to keep bird as stress free as possible.


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## topmop

He is still eating and drinking fine. infact today i saw him drinking bit more than usual amount of water. droppings are also normal. But now i see kind of swelling in the root of his neck on left side. I dont see the skin, but i see that side has swelling like ping pong ball, you can say half of ping pong ball. I am not an expert, but i feel it is swelling. I tried to take a picture of him but when i went back with camera he already crawled under the place where he spend night, its 7:30 pm now. I will try to get a picture tomorrow morning. I did not seperated him from other bird because i noticed when other pigeon eats and drink he follow him. So i am afraid he will be scared alone in a box and might not eat or drink. Also i am not an expert so i cant really feed him with hand. Thank God he is eating by himself.

I wish he can fly to you guys where he can get better treatment, anyways thanks for the suggestions and help


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## Skyeking

We cannot make any diagnosis, we are not doctors, we can only make suggestions based on the information you give us.

If you are seeing swelling I would treat for canker (asap), and meanwhile, you should hand feed small seeds to make sure the bird is getting enough to eat. flagyl, metrodonizole, Spartrix are some medications for canker.


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## topmop

I dont have access to a vet who can handle pigeons, Now i am getting help from a vet medicine store owner who got some experience handling pigeons. He suspect an air sac. and now i am even more confused.

Do you guys think that occasional neck twist and air sac can be related in any way? air sac (if it is) is noticeable now after 2 days since he started twisting his head.

The version of Enrofloxacin i have is listed on their website (Avifloxin Oral Solution ) . And on the detailed paper slip i found in medicine box , along with many other diseases it is mentioned it will also prevent/cure air sacs.
http://www.hiltonpharma.com/productsVeterinary.html


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