# Feral (in really good condition!) caught in San Francisco - but I'm about to take off



## ceren (Feb 20, 2009)

I've never posted on this forum before...

I only know parrots, and it's been a few years, AND I'm due to make a trip this weekend, so if I can hand this one off to someone who knows what he or she's doing, awesome!

I picked this pigeon up in the Mission, 16th and Valencia. It was on the sidewalk when I went indoors, but I noticed I could get closer to this bird than was good... and it was hanging out in a corner of an inset doorway when I left 6 hours later. It was time to learn to play catch-the-suspiciously-passive-pigeon, renamed "Nocarrier".

Bird condition looks okay - he/she's clear eyed, breathing fine, no sign of any eye or beak discharge. I think I've heard it sneeze twice in the past hour. I haven't gotten a look down the throat yet. One foot's a little red and has a very small amount of scab damage, but I don't think that's the problem. Wings are even, breastbone seems a little sharp but not terribly emaciated. It was past midnight, but the droppings I think I saw it pass were mixed dark green and white, but too fluid-ey in general. Walking was even, not floppy or dizzy, but the bird obviously wasn't up for a wild fight, and I was able to corner it for the grab with the help of a friend in under 30 seconds. I don't see stress bars in the feathers, and the cere is white and clean. Throat's clear, and was moist. I offered the lightly sugared/salted water and it's dipping the beak in and drinking on its own now. I set up my bunny's carrier with a towel and some fluffy Carefresh and hay, and the pigeon was okay just watching me do this - my hands less than a foot away. It just seems tired to me.

I've given it a buttwash the morning, and cleaned up some matting of poop around the cloaca. Nocarrier pooped three times while I was doing this. it's red and possibly a little inflamed, but I have nothing to compare it with. I trimmed the feathers there a bit, too. Pigeon's probably wondering why its butthole's so breezy. 

I'm really hoping it's not egg-binding, or something like that.

She's resting in the cage on a small heating pad with carefresh covering it. I have aquarium medications that seem to match a large variety of meds you all tend to use for pigeons, but again, I'd like for someone with pigeon experience to take a look, and if you can help me place it somewhere safe over this weekend (the carrier and heating pad can travel with it!) I'd gladly take back over the care on monday.

Ooh, and now Nocarrier's happily digging into the millet spray I've put in there (with some Lafebrer's Avi-cakes).

If you can ring me (PM for number) at some point tonight, no matter how late (Thursday) that'd be AWESOME. If there's someone else I should contact, please let me know. 

- Ceren


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Ceren and welcome to Pigeon-Talk! Thank you so much for assisting this pigeon. I'll see if I can round up some of our Bay area members for you.

Terry


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## ceren (Feb 20, 2009)

Thanks.  

If nothing else, I have a friend who does koi medicine taking the pigeon from me tonight, and would be open to it being picked up, too. She lives in North Beach. 

I'm guessing it's a mild case of Coccidiosis, but a confirm would be nice, because if it is, I may hold back on antibiotics dosing and avoid screwing up its digestive system completely.


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## Margarret (May 3, 2007)

Hi Ceren,

Welcome to Pigeon Talk. Wow, for someone caring for a pigeon for the first time, you have done all the right things. Thank you for rescuing this pigeon. I'm hoping someone in the bay area will be able to help out. 

Margaret


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## Skyeking (Jan 17, 2003)

Hello and thank you for rescuing this pigon.

Please follow this link:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=8822


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## Elizabethy (Sep 25, 2007)

Holy cow, Ceren- you sound like an expert already! I don't no that Nocarrier needs any outside help but are you still in search of? I've been out of town and was internet-challenged and so am just now seeing this but could try and hook you up with a local feral expert if you want.

And thank you for rescuing this bird! And welcome to Pigeon Talk. Hopefully, via Nocarrier, you'll become totally pigeon-addicted and will help yours and others too!

Muuwhhaaahhaaaaa! 

My direct e-mail is [email protected] and a link to my pigeon-rescuing blog is below. View at your own risk: Pigeons are sirens!


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## ceren (Feb 20, 2009)

Well, Nocarrier is looking and acting nearly perfect, now. every time my hand gets near him/her, I get snarled at and a very deliberate single wing smack aimed at my hand, LOL. I've never had a bird, feral or pet, try to slap me away like this before, it's really pretty funny. Poops are now looking solid and clean, and he's noshing away happily on a variety of grains and unfrozen peas that I'm offering. I've caught him preening pretty contentedly several times, too. 

But I think I've created a lazy monster. I've let him sit in the open pet carrier all day, and he's just chilling there, occasionally wandering over to the edge to grasp the towel and do some experimental flapping, and then he wanders back to relax again. I'm not sure quite how to tell when to release. "Half a block at a time"is enough flight to get away from me, but it wouldn't be enough to keep him safe. I don't have a coop or anywhere that's safe to do experimental flying, unfortunately, and I'm afraid that sending him on a couple of test flights around my Victorian is just going to cause injuries. Any advice?

http://magnesium.net/~ceren/shelf_pigeon.jpg


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## bluebirdsnfur (Jan 20, 2009)

Ceren . . NoCarrier looks quite happy and content on your shelf by the window. Looks like you've done a good job re habin him. Well done!


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## bluebirdsnfur (Jan 20, 2009)

BTY . . . *nice big moss ball in the jar! *


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## ceren (Feb 20, 2009)

Okay, I need an expert's help and eyes now - Nocarrier's been eating grains and fresh veggies, and drinking water...

but just as of a few minutes ago, started passing surprisingly bloody poops. Definitely in a lobster-tail position, too, even though he/she's still eating and preening, I can see that while sitting, the pulsing of his/her butt indicates Nocarrier's consistently straining to pass waste, but I can't guess why. I took a couple quick shots - and you can see that the rest of the poops have been well formed and clean. 

I'm afraid to check for egg-binding, because I'm not sure how to do this without causing more damage to the innards. Internal injuries shouldn't have taken over a week to show up like this, no?

What do I try? lube in the butt? olive oil into the mouth? systemic antibiotics to prevent ... whatever? I'm going to try introducing a bird-safe anti-inflammatory/pain reliever, because right now that can't hurt. 

SF people, if you have advice, could take a look (I can bring Nocarrier by in the transport cage), or even want to recommend a vet you've had good experiences with, I'd appreciate it. 

http://magnesium.net/~ceren/bloodypoop.jpg
http://magnesium.net/~ceren/bloodypoop2.jpg


I'll be looking through sticky posts on bird meds now....


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Hi,

I remember reading about a really excellent vet in your area, very familiar with pigeons in another thread. Had a look and here is a link to him.

http://www.medicalcenterforbirds.com/

Best of luck with your little one.


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## ceren (Feb 20, 2009)

thank you for the contact - I've called them and made an appointment for tomorrow morning. I have an interview today and as bad as I feel about this, I can't make it to the vet AND the interview both this afternoon. 

Poops are completely back to normal today, but it's obvious Nocarrier's in some discomfort. Geez, bird...


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## maryjane (Jul 15, 2006)

How's it going with Nocarrier?


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## ceren (Feb 20, 2009)

update post vet visit:

The Medical Center for Birds is great. I was very impressed by the questions asked by the receptionist(s). The vet worked with me to show me how to feel the keelbone, crop, and showed me how easy it is to see through the skin if you spritz a little alcohol on it. 

By now the droppings are totally, completely back to normal - but I had the pics from the bloody pooping, and the vet took a look. At this point, though, the only ones that concerned him in the carrier were the ones that were dark black-green, and thin. We decided that because there were not outward signs of any specific infections, but most ferals have Trich, I'd make up my own doses of metronidazole (at 13.5mg, 2x a day) from fish medication for Nocarrier. We did determine a few things:

- there's no egg blocking the butt area
- Nocarrier is somewhat underweight 
- crop is somewhat "doughy"; we can find the seeds, but there's also a doughiness that the vet wasn't too thrilled about. 
- no broken bones in the wings
- throat's totally clear and clean

Nocarrier got weighed, and is at 275g. Definitely thin, and I'm working on feeding Nocarrier with a diet heavy on shelled sunflower weeds and dried peas. I'm not going to syringe-feed if I can help it - we're already suffering through the meds feedings twice a day. 

One thing I have noticed in the past couple of days, though, is that Nocarrier's very heavily favoring one of the feet, and when I have him/her upside down for vent inspection, sometimes a leg massage will get the legs to relax and extend - but one of the feet leans slightly inwards, from the side. Also when I brush against the inside of the ankle, the leg shudders and flinches. I'm not sure if this happened while in my care, though I doubt it.  I notice the pij is laying down a lot more (to take pressure off the leg, I hope.)
Does this indicate a broken/sprained ankle? Will this sort of damage heal, or am I actually looking at splinting a bird foot?

in the meantime, have a picture of a stylin' pij-burrito.

http://i43.tinypic.com/21nmryp.jpg


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## ceren (Feb 20, 2009)

I'm uploading video to demonstrate. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC4vMj0wDRk


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

You sure are gentle and very kind with the Pigeon. I really appreciate that.
It might be easier to give the medicine with a smaller syringe....like a 1cc...you could put it down the throat a little and it would be over before either one of you could tell what was happening.
Could you make a video of the Pigeon walking?


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## ceren (Feb 20, 2009)

Charis said:


> It might be easier to give the medicine with a smaller syringe....like a 1cc...you could put it down the throat a little and it would be over before either one of you could tell what was happening.
> Could you make a video of the Pigeon walking?


I could try that, sure - but i've gotten faster with this one, and it's over quite quickly now. I'm just afraid of putting it down the windpipe side. *shudder*

Nocarrier's taken to sleeping with face & breast in the seeds bowl, and belly/vent over the mini heating pad (under the towels). I think I need a more powerful pad - this is a tiny flat one for 2gallon aquariums.









I don't like that I've had Nocarrier for over 2 weeks (almost a week on metronidazole), and the lobster-tail posture hasn't changed.

2 weeks ago:









tonight:









Regarding the limping, i went back and looked at my pictures and video from 2 weeks ago - the foot wasn't lame then. Nocarrier still has control of it, uses it to scratch his/her face sometimes, but *really* doesn't want to put any weight on it. I'm worried that injury to this leg happened in my care, and hasn't improved since it started. This doesn't look like egg-binding/sciatic nerve lameness, does it? 

Feb 27th:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwZ8d9C_N9U

tonight: 
It's hard to get video of the pij walking - but this is from Nocarrier wandering on my bed while I changed towels in the carrier. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEVvS9sSeZM


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## ceren (Feb 20, 2009)

okay, we've been through the standard trich dosage and posture is definitely not improving. 

Nocarrier's smacking my hand with vigor, limp is improving on its own... but the hunched back is no better, and I don't think he's eating enough daily. I'm trying to tempt him with higher-calorie things like peanuts, with slight success. 










His weight's not really increasing appreciably. Is the next step a Coccidiosis/worming treatment? I'm looking at this: http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/catalog/coccidiosis.html

And this one looked good....



> Vetafarm's Wormout Plus Coccidiosis Tablets
> Status: OUT OF STOCK
> 
> Combination of drugs that many have asked for and now we have it! I give them to every bird as I wean them. Treats worms and Coccidiosis. Each tablet contains 5 mg. Oxfendazole, 5 mg. Praziquentel and 5 mg. Diolazuril. 1 tablet per bird for 2 days.
> ...


Oh, and I just found (and crushed) what I think is a tick. little @^*#_$ pisser. made a satisfying crunch when I smashed it with the qtip - had blood in it.  










Ewwww.....


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Hi Ceren,

Nice to hear that his limp is improving.

The hunched pose he is in usually indicates some kind of intestinal malady. Feeding him peanuts to increase his calories is a good idea, but I would make sure the were broken/cut up into quite small pieces. 

The reason being is that since he is indicating possible intestinal problems, he may not be processing his food at 100%. Whole peanuts, whole corn, large seeds may just make things worse for him right now. So I would make sure smaller morsels/seeds of all types right now.

Also, if you are going to treat for Coccidiosis I think I would use a Trimethoprim/Sulfa drug (ie Bactrim), this way you will cover any possible Coccidiosis issues and also get some coverage for any possible intestinal infection.

For the crawly things you can pick up a mite and lice spray for birds, that contains pyrethrins, at almost any pet store and it will take care of those creepy crawlies.

Good luck,

Karyn


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## Ivor (May 12, 2008)

Hi Ceren

How the pidgi is doing any update???

Ivette


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## ceren (Feb 20, 2009)

I'm going to order 6017 Trim/Sulfa Powder 100 gr. from Foy's in case it's cocci/respritory, and while waiting for delivery, treat with aquarium praziquantel and hope that solves this pij's stomach troubles. It's been over a month now. limp has steadied out but isn't getting much better, but at least it's two feet flat on the ground most of the time now. 

I notice Prazi isn't discussed much here yet - it's becoming very popular in aquariums because it's hard to overdose. I'd like some pointers on what the formulary reccomendations are in pigeon-dosing, even though I'm going to look it up in the Merck Vet Manual.

I discovered you CAN see feather mites with the naked eye, though. Eww.










Oddly, this is all making me hope I have a baby pij to raise/rescue this spring. I've got it bad already.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Hi Ceren,

From what I understand why Praziquantel is not really used much is because it is used to treat for for tapeworms, which is not too common in pigeons. It is not effective for the more common infections of roundworms or threadworms.

I had a look at Foy's website and if you are ordering from Foys I think a better choice for worms would be this, #519 Ivomectin 0.5% 10ml/cc $9.95. It will cover both round and thread worms.

Are those feather mites dead ones after treating with a mite spray?

I don't know if it is possible, but perhaps another trip to the vet where they would very quickly be able to check for worms and cocci and even perhaps make a better choice for an antibiotic to treat any intestinal malady.

All the best,

Karyn


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## ceren (Feb 20, 2009)

Thanks, Karyn. advice taken. I'll use Ivomectin for the possible worms. 

If there's still a problem after that and hitting the pigeon with a wide-spectrum antibiotic, it'll be vet time again. :/ 

(changed my mind and am going to go with the Aueromycin/Sulmet combo, unless someone recommends otherwise, simply because of the short blurb written on foy's site.)

Nocarrier just got hosed down with a big dose of pyrethrin mites spray. I regret to say that those mites in that image were quite alive and wiggling around energetically. blergh. Thanks to Dobato for the pointer, and jenfer for the additional help.


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## Dobato (Jul 3, 2008)

Hi Ceren,

Sounds good. If you could get the meds going as soon as you could, this would be good as well.

The mite spray will take care of his freeloaders, and I am sure he will feel better for this as well.

Karyn


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## ceren (Feb 20, 2009)

jenfer - i got the package, thank you.  also, your inbox is full.


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## karijo (Apr 11, 2006)

Ceren - I just finished reading this thread and am sorry i didn't see it sooner!

I have a lot of different meds here, pretty much something for just about everything, LOL.

I live in Oakland, so if there is anything you need let me know.
(So you don't have to buy a whole bottle of wormer for example)

I can also give you pro-bios and tea, etc - stuff to help get his tummy back in order after medicating. 

PM if you're interested, and I will give you my email address and phone number.


Best,
Kari Jo


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## ceren (Feb 20, 2009)

new update - NoCarrier's definitely put on weight, yay! The availability of seed, peas, and a pickstone has made for a fairly content pigeon. 









We're also done with the Aureomycin/Sulmet treatment period.

But the left leg isn't any better, and wing on that side is gimpy. If my hand is on that side, I get growled at, and right wing is lifted threateningly, but it doesn't raise enough to slap. (I still get a good slap from the right wing when my hand's on the right side). Oddly, NoCarrier will settle down once the left leg's standing on my hand. Confused bird. 

I carefully felt around, and can't find any lumps, dislocations, broken bones, and I swear the wing was more functional when I first took NoCarrier in. Argh. I'm thinking that MAYBE an infection localized and ... I don't know what? sits there in a rubbery lump? maybe the wing is dislocated after all? Ugh, this is going to cost me an xray visit, isn't it? 

Exercise flapping video is here, and any and all advice or opinions are welcome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUm9vsI49X4

you can compare to both wings being even here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwZ8d9C_N9U
Now when NoCarrier does this "shoulders-up" stretch, the gimpy wing doesn't even reach horizontal level, let alone "up".


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## MaryOfExeter (Sep 30, 2007)

Well, it looks like something happened to that side of his/her body. You can see a big difference between now and the defrosted peas video 
I was thinking it could be paratyphoid, either messing with the nerves to make that side of the body all limpy, or prehaps just the joint form localized over there. But he's been through so much medicine already, salmonella should be running and hiding from your house  Not to mention it normally pops up in wet, warm places that aren't cleaned often. So I doubt it the more I think about it. How are the poops looking?
I think the most important thing right now is to pack him full of probiotics. After all that medicine, his system is probably more weak than usual, making it even easier to contract something again.


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