# Henri's acting weird



## Michy (Jul 29, 2011)

Hello all! Everything here has been going perfect up until yesterday. My daughter had the 2 pigeons flying free in the house with their diapers due to crummy weather. At around 7pm, Bailey came to me saying that Henri was making weird squeaking noises when she was taking them up to bed for the night. The only noise Henri ever makes when with Simon are the low toned grunts. I blew it off thinking that maybe Henri is becoming more vocal due to her and trying to mate and stuff. Maybe she's come out of her shell now that she discovered love. Well this morning, I went in their room to let them out and noticed that I could hear Henri breathing. She doesn't sound congested or raspy. I took her out and sure enough she started making squeaking sounds. I opened her mouth. No growths or anything suspicious. Her eyes are bright and her crop feels fine. Not empty and not hard. So she's eating no prob. Poops in cage are normal but I noticed around her vent is a slight tinge of green( but so is Simon's...probably due to not getting their daily bath). She is acting fine except that I can hear her breathing. Not even like she's out of breath. And this new squeaking sound. Does anyone have a clue as to what might be going on? As I said earlier, I caught the 2 of them trying to mate. I stress "trying" as it was Henri( hen) on top of Simon. I did also see Simon feeding her the day they tried their physical love. Would this all be tied together? They are both wormed and vaccinated. Help!!


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

I would have a throat culture done.It could be canker or the beginning of a respiratory infection.


----------



## Dima (Jan 15, 2011)

Why do you have to bathe them daily? That's not healthy..at least one that i know:for their feathers. You can live a bathing container for them to bathe when they wish.


----------



## Michy (Jul 29, 2011)

I don't bathe them daily. They have a shallow pond with fountain that they play in when out in their enclosure. The fountain keeps the water cooler and the wAter is changed every day they are let outside to play. I am a clean freak and these birds live in the most sanitary of conditions. Their cage is cleaned and wiped down Daily, they have a fan and ionizer in their room which has a nice big window..letting in southern exposure to the sun. Food always changed as is water and grit. I have went above and beyond all that is expected from a pigeon owner. If I get this culture done and it's positive, I will argue anyone who tells me pigeons are easy pets. Heck.. My asthmatic 19 year old cat is less work!! Lol!!! Oh I hope I am over reacting. Also, I wanted to clarify that she only squeaks when we handle her. She's not squeaking from the breathing. She acts like she's ticked off and does the noise. Can this be "Brooding behavior"? If this continues tomorrow, I'll take a video with my trusty iPod.


----------



## Michy (Jul 29, 2011)

Whoops. I meant to say.. "I don't bathe them daily..they do it themselves".


----------



## Michy (Jul 29, 2011)

Ok...I must add another weird thing. Ever since Simon hit maturity and decided to woo Henri(and no longer the oil lamp), he relentlessly cooed and danced all day and most of the night. This morning I woke up and he's quiet. No cooing. No dancing. Both are in their cage, sitting on their usual perches. When a hen and cock breed, will the cock stop the mating ritual?? Should I be concerned? Could this ALSO be tied in with Henri's odd behavior??


----------



## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

I think your over analyzing,.. in a good caring kind of way. Henri may need some doxyvet or similar meds but will probably come right without because you look after them so well. One of my pigeons was making squeeking and wheezing noises for a few weeks. Simon will stop the mating ritual temporarily after he has mated her.

Do they have a nest?


----------



## Michy (Jul 29, 2011)

They don't have a nest in their indoor cage and as far as I know, they didn't make one in their outdoor enclosure. I don't provide a bowl in either because, frankly, I don't want more than 2 pigeons. Maybe they made a natural one outside? I'll check to make sure. It was outdoors that I witnessed Simon feeding Henri and their attempting of mating. Thank you for relieving me somewhat. LOL..I don't think I've ever been this paranoid over a pet before, but as my husband and I say on a regular basis..."If anything ever happened to either pigeon, it would crush Bailey". They are her children and she is always fussing with them. Presently, she is just mortified that Henri is acting this way and doesn't have any initative to do anything or go anywhere..she just sits up in the room with them, trying to find other symptoms.


----------



## Michy (Jul 29, 2011)

Oh yeah. What is "Doxyvet" and where can I get it?


----------



## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/medications/respiratory/29-doxyvet-liquid-50-ml-cc

I am no expert but if you were able to get your hands on this I'm sure it would help.

Have you hever treated for canker? you can put powder in thier water or a pill down the throat.


----------



## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

the doxyvet we get here in NZ is a 500gm container of powder. by the australian pigeon company.


----------



## Michy (Jul 29, 2011)

Thanks! I think I'll make a trip to a few pet supply stores today. If no luck, I'll order it. I wanna do all that I can before making the 65 mile journey to the vet. Looks like it's a product I should have on hand anyway. I will also look into that canker treatment as well.


----------



## thepigeonkey (Oct 12, 2011)

Both products are possably perscription meds and a vet visit may be necessary. I don't know. Every couple of years I take a pigeon into the vet and explain I have 100 more at home and would like Doxyvet powder for respiratory and Tricozole pills for canker. I guess you need to know what you want most the time because vets don't always know much about pigeons.


----------



## Miss-Sassypants (Sep 25, 2010)

Good luck Michy, I'm sending healing thoughts for Henri. I hope she will be better soon. Do take care!


----------



## Michy (Jul 29, 2011)

Thank you very much! Good news is that a local pet supply carries that doxyvet. Hooray! Simon restarted his cooing and dancing. Hooray(and boo)! Henri is now starting to sound "stuffy". I will give these mess a try and if she isn't better by Monday, we will take a trip to good 'ol Uncle George. I plan on keeping her in the cage to keep her quiet and am thinking about putting Simon in a separate cage next to her so that they can still see each other but she won't have to worry about using extra energy fighting off his perverted ways. Lol.


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Michy...if you start the birds on antibiotic, you will need to wait a week after the treatment is over to take them to the vet. Any antibiotic will mask bacteria, even if the bacteria is not the right one. 
FYI...My experience is that doxy causes vomiting.


----------



## Michy (Jul 29, 2011)

Thank you Charis.. I did not know that. Well geez. That puts me in a tough situation. Vet not open till Monday and I don't think I want this to go untreated. I separated the 2 of them both cages are practically touching. This way I can also keep an eye on her food/water intake. When fixing up her new " bedroom", I heard her cough. I think it was a cough anyway. She is definitely eating/drinking fine and is perky. Almost acting happy. She even left a present for me with was of normal color and consistency. Should I try another sort of antibiotic or should I wait and make an appointment on Monday? I'd hate for her to get worse.


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

She is probably already infected and so I wouldn't separate them as separating can cause more stress which can activate any parasite the bird may normally be coping with. If they are eating and drinking, I would wait until Monday.


----------



## Msfreebird (Sep 23, 2007)

Charis said:


> She is probably already infected and so I wouldn't separate them as separating can cause more stress which can activate any parasite the bird may normally be coping with. If they are eating and drinking, I would wait until Monday.


I agree with Charis.


Michy said:


> I don't bathe them daily. They have a shallow pond with fountain that they play in when out in their enclosure. The fountain keeps the water cooler and the wAter is changed every day they are let outside to play.* I am a clean freak and these birds live in the most sanitary of conditions.* Their cage is cleaned and wiped down Daily, they have a fan and ionizer in their room which has a nice big window..letting in southern exposure to the sun. Food always changed as is water and grit. I have went above and beyond all that is expected from a pigeon owner. If I get this culture done and it's positive,* I will argue anyone who tells me pigeons are easy pets. Heck.. My asthmatic 19 year old cat is less work!!* Lol!!! Oh I hope I am over reacting. Also, I wanted to clarify that she only squeaks when we handle her. She's not squeaking from the breathing. She acts like she's ticked off and does the noise. Can this be "Brooding behavior"? If this continues tomorrow, I'll take a video with my trusty iPod.


Hey, you can come clean my house! 
I think you make way too much work for yourself. Sanitizing is not always healthier.....being exposed to some germs triggers the immune system and helps the body build a resistance.....which is good


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Michy said:


> They don't have a nest in their indoor cage and as far as I know, they didn't make one in their outdoor enclosure. I don't provide a bowl in either because, frankly, I don't want more than 2 pigeons. Maybe they made a natural one outside? I'll check to make sure. It was outdoors that I witnessed Simon feeding Henri and their attempting of mating. Thank you for relieving me somewhat. LOL..I don't think I've ever been this paranoid over a pet before, but as my husband and I say on a regular basis..."If anything ever happened to either pigeon, it would crush Bailey". They are her children and she is always fussing with them. Presently, she is just mortified that Henri is acting this way and doesn't have any initative to do anything or go anywhere..she just sits up in the room with them, trying to find other symptoms.


This sounds like two pigeons comming of age and having a "voice" change. providing what they need in way of a nest box and nest bowl will not make 2 more pigeons unless you let them sit fertile eggs if one is a hen. you would just replace the eggs with fake ones. A huge part of a pigeons life is mating and nesting and it is normal. you should not keep them apart as said it can cause stress as they do mate for life. I would let them do what they do naturally which is mate and nest...but just use fake eggs if one is a hen.. if they are two cock birds paired up you still can give them fake eggs to play house with and coddle over.


----------



## Michy (Jul 29, 2011)

This is crrrrrazy!!! So in my somewhat panicked state, I break down and call poor Uncle George(vet) on his day off. "Henri's squeaking, sneezing(or coughing) and sniffling!!! What do I do?!?! I describe in detail her symptoms and even hold the phone up to her, which of course didn't work(like someone's reeeeally going to hear a pigeon breathing over the phone). He tells me that he doesn't think it's an infection and possibly a small obstruction in a nostril. Told me not to give antibiotics and lectured me on why a person should never resort to them with every little sneeze(ups the immunity towards the antibiotic and when they do need it, the meds won't work). If Henri continues with her sniffs and sneezes, I am to take her in for a culture and sensitivity on Monday. So, I hang up after an hour on the phone with the poor guy...somewhat relieved. Not totally, but somewhat. "What if he's wrong?" "How can someone diagnose over the phone?" "What if I gave the wrong info?" I pick the phone back up and cancel plans I had for Monday, because surely I will be in the vet's office. At that time, Bailey comes running down the stairs and says "Henri's all better!" Give me a break. There's no way. She sounded like crap not more than an hour ago. So I go upstairs and take Henri out to listen to her. No Squeaks. No wheezing. No sneezing. No nothing. Go figure. She probably had a seed hull up her nose. I'm an idiot! So I call uncle George back up(he's going to disown me!), and tell him the good news. He says to me..."Next time something like this happens, go straight out and get yourself on some Prozac. It's the best meds you can get for your birds." We had a good laugh and so ends the family saga. All is well this morning. Both birds acting fine. 

I do thank everyone who has chimed in to relieve my paranoia. Charis, I am most grateful. For if it weren't for your advice, I would have went out, got those meds and treated her without making that call, causing her more harm than good. Thank you Thank you Thank you!!!


----------



## Michy (Jul 29, 2011)

Msfreebird said:


> I agree with Charis.
> 
> Hey, you can come clean my house!
> I think you make way too much work for yourself. Sanitizing is not always healthier.....being exposed to some germs triggers the immune system and helps the body build a resistance.....which is good


I know you speak the truth..and I know that's a fact...but trying to correct an OCD is next to impossible...lol. It eats at me if I don't dust, windex and vacuum the whole house at least one a day. (Pigeon room needs a vacuuming twice cause of invisible dust!) I'm not so bad in the summer months, because I focus alot of my energies on weed whacking and mowing our property(11 manicured acres). By the time I'm done, I'm too tired to do anything else!


----------



## Michy (Jul 29, 2011)

spirit wings said:


> This sounds like two pigeons comming of age and having a "voice" change. providing what they need in way of a nest box and nest bowl will not make 2 more pigeons unless you let them sit fertile eggs if one is a hen. you would just replace the eggs with fake ones. A huge part of a pigeons life is mating and nesting and it is normal. you should not keep them apart as said it can cause stress as they do mate for life. I would let them do what they do naturally which is mate and nest...but just use fake eggs if one is a hen.. if they are two cock birds paired up you still can give them fake eggs to play house with and coddle over.


Simon is definately male and Henri is definately female and both are a little over a year old. Not too long ago, I put a nest bowl in their indoor cage due to Simon making nests out of their water bowl. They never really showed interest in it. As a matter of fact, Simon was taking the newspaper shreds out of the nest and putting them in the water bowl(think I posted about that in here somewhere). So I took out the nest I provided because he was making a HUGE mess and I worried about them ingesting ink from the papers. Happily Simon finally figured out that water bowls are better for drinking out of than sitting in. They aren't in their indoor cage (AKA bedroom) long(7-8pm to 6am). In their outside enclosure, I have pine needles and other "fun stuff" that they can use if the urge of nest building arises. There's so many places they could make one, that I don't bother with a bowl on the ground. Our daughter made a "playhouse" out of stacked cardboard boxes that they play in when inside and flying free(oh how I hate when she drags that thing into the living room!). It has ladders and balconies and different "rooms". One of which is filled with paper shreds. Simon loves trying to herd Henri into it...which never works. I should take a pic of it...how amusing it is watching them play hide and seek in it!!


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

Michy said:


> Simon is definately male and Henri is definately female and both are a little over a year old. Not too long ago, I put a nest bowl in their indoor cage due to Simon making nests out of their water bowl. They never really showed interest in it. As a matter of fact, Simon was taking the newspaper shreds out of the nest and putting them in the water bowl(think I posted about that in here somewhere). So I took out the nest I provided because he was making a HUGE mess and I worried about them ingesting ink from the papers. Happily Simon finally figured out that water bowls are better for drinking out of than sitting in. They aren't in their indoor cage (AKA bedroom) long(7-8pm to 6am). In their outside enclosure, I have pine needles and other "fun stuff" that they can use if the urge of nest building arises. There's so many places they could make one, that I don't bother with a bowl on the ground. Our daughter made a "playhouse" out of stacked cardboard boxes that they play in when inside and flying free(oh how I hate when she drags that thing into the living room!). It has ladders and balconies and different "rooms". One of which is filled with paper shreds. Simon loves trying to herd Henri into it...which never works. I should take a pic of it...how amusing it is watching them play hide and seek in it!!


when is the last time Henri layed eggs? sounds like they need a place they can reley on and not moved around so much so they can settle down to do what pigeons do. getting a disposible nest bowl may help if you keep it in say a cardboard box in a place up off the ground is what they usually prefer and not moved.. add some nest material and leave it alone and they may use it.


----------



## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

I agree with SW. Nesting is such a big part of their life that they should have a private, undisturbed area where they can nest and stay by thier nest. Get a pair of fake eggs too. You can line it with cloth or other material if you don't want shredded newspaper of pine needles etc. in the home. Are you SURE Henri is a female????? By a year she should have already laid eggs if she has not already.....


----------



## Michy (Jul 29, 2011)

As I said before, I provided a nest and both showed no interest in it. There is alot that us humans take away from our feathered friends that would be considered a large part of their lives. Some keep all of their pigeons in small indoor cages where they never see the sky. Some let part of their flock fly free while keeping breeders confined so they have nothing better to do than breed. Pigeons are a very social bird where being a part of a flock means happiness and security. I only have 2. Some only have 1. Unless a person allows their pigeons to live a feral life, he/she is taking away from them. I make the most of it by keeping them stimulated, which seems to work fine. They both are very happy birds. I move them back and forth from their outdoor enclosure(daytime playpen) to our house( night time and winter) to keep them safe. I live in the country where coyote, bobcat, bear, falcons, eagles and hawks are high in numbers. I will not play Russian roulette with the fates. They are family members. We don't even let our kid camp in the back. Henri Was confirmed to being a hen by 3 people. 2 are pigeon breeders and one a vet(who specializes in avaian species ranging from chickens to macaws). Henri doesn't coo. She never displayed or did the dance of love. As far as her not laying an egg, it's probably because she doesn't know how to read. I'll get right on that and buy her a book on how pigeons are supposed to act  Thank you for your concern


----------



## Miss-Sassypants (Sep 25, 2010)

You take such good care of them Michy! They are very lucky! The fantastic hygiene, the attention to details, the vet call at the drop of a hat, you are an absolutely responsible and caring owner. I salute you!

Please adopt me if I become a pigeon in my next life... _Teehee..._


----------



## Quazar (Jul 27, 2010)

Michy said:


> ....I'll get right on that and buy her a book on how pigeons are supposed to act  ....


really dont think that could be such a good idea ?








lol


----------



## Woodnative (Jul 4, 2010)

lOl! Hey, dont' take offense at what I wrote...........I think you guys are excellent, perhaps exceptional caregivers too, and I love that your daughter has and enjoys these two!! I also find it a relief that you keep a clean and normal home! You are right that we change a lot of their lives by having them as pets......though as long as we provide their needs...a safe dry home, clean nutritious food, good grit, clean water and a chance to be social you are still satisfying their needs. Having another to interact with is very important......though in some cases a human can fill that (if they are there enough) but having at least a "mate" (for a mature bird) fills a lot or most of that social need.....even more than a "flock". Much of their life, when not eating and bathing and doing the day to day necessities for life is spent with their mate trying to nest....which is why we wrote the above. Now I believe Henri is a girl based on all you said (though others have been surprised before). Unless she is unable too, she will probably then lay eggs at some point. In any case, that is another matter and the important thing NOW, and the reason for your post here, is that they are healthy....and it seems they are and that is good!


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I would leave a nest in one place for them to use. they may not pay attention right off the bat..but they may use it at some point. esp if you provide nest material. I asked if she has layed eggs because then it would be a deffinate she is a hen..as of right now without eggs she still could be a he reguardless of what the experts say. have been given and bought a few "hens" from experienced pigeon keepers..only to find out they are not..and the other way around. but it does not really matter if the two like each other..at least you don't have to deal with eggs..which on occasion can be troublesome for hens. The information shared is only to help with the birds, but if you do not need that then good for you!


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Pigeons hav e the same behavior whether living in a loft, in a home as companions or free as ferals. Once they have started nesting they must be allowed their routine or they will abandon the nest and eggs. The point being, once/if your pigeon companions start to nest, you won't be able to move them outside and then inside because it will disturb their natural pattern.
The pigeons having a natural pattern, has nothing to do with judgment on you providing a good home for them.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

Charis said:


> Pigeons hav e the same behavior whether living in a loft, in a home as companions or free as ferals. *Once they have started nesting they must be allowed their routine or they will abandon the nest and eggs. The point being, once/if your pigeon companions start to nest, you won't be able to move them outside and then inside because it will disturb their natural pattern.*
> The pigeons having a natural pattern, has nothing to do with judgment on you providing a good home for them.



I was going to add exactly what Charis has said, but then I got to her comment and she has already said it. 
It's nice that they get outside each day for fresh air and sunshine, but if they do begin to lay eggs, then you can't just take them from their nest and bring them outside. Bringing their nest out with them won't work either. Once they lay, they will want to sit on the eggs, and they take turns. If you separate them from their nest and eggs to put them outside, they will abandon the eggs. When that happens, The hen will just lay more right away. And they will keep doing this. That would eventually delete her of too much calcium and she can have all sorts of problems. You need to leave them with the eggs to sit on for the 18 days or so. When they don't hatch, they will then lay more and try again. But at least she will have had the 18 days rest from laying. So I would be hoping that they were 2 males actually.


----------



## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

Even if they are both males...if the bond to each other, they still will appreciate wooden eggs to sit on. I have a couple of males that are bonded and go through the mating ritual. I give them wooden eggs and they take turns on the nest.
It can be really hard, as a human, to think like a pigeon...especially for a human that hasn't lived with pigeon before.


----------



## Jay3 (May 4, 2008)

I can usually think like one but yet wouldn't have thought to give 2 males eggs. Good idea.


----------



## spirit wings (Mar 29, 2008)

I had mentioned all of that already.. it did not go over well.


----------

