# hawk problems



## vasyapersikov (Feb 29, 2008)

i got 2 of my pigeons eaten by a hawk on 03-28-08  .
does anyone know what i can do to prevent this problem?
its mostly the coppers and red tails that are around my loft.
HELP!


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

We have this question asked at leat once a week, it seems. 
The only way to protect your birds is to keep them inside.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

What breed are you pigeons? and are they young or old birds.


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## vasyapersikov (Feb 29, 2008)

there racing pigeons dont know what kind
there 07 birds(spring birds)


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

vasyapersikov said:


> there racing pigeons dont know what kind
> there 07 birds(spring birds)


When loft flying. DO NOT feed them before you let them out to fly. And look in the trees and sky before you release them. Make sure they a hungry To get them to trap faster. NOW try to stay at the loft area as you fly them To help scare off any hawks. THE main key you do not want your birds just sitting on the loft .They are easy prey when they sitt the loft. Get them up flying and trapping fast. As they learn more from the hawk they will get more aware. This will help. Hawks start to hunt early so maybe after 10 am you would see less Then mid afternoon.. Good luck.


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## ND Cooper (Mar 4, 2008)

If I remember correctly, hawks are teritorial, ( not sure )
I remember reading some where, that if you put up a statue of the same type of hawk, other hawks will avoid the area, to avoid a fight.
Also, If there is a larger preditor around, like a golden or bald eagle, the lesser preditors avoid the area completely. Check with a hawk pro at fish+game or dept. of natural resources in your state. Just call them, it's their job to keep track of birds of prey. Maybe there are too many in your area, and they might even decide to move some, somewhere else.
I also remember reading of people putting round concave (?) mirrors on top of their lofts, I guess the hawk sees itself, but thinks another hawk is comming straight for them, and turns away, to avoid a confrontation.
I've also read, that some people fly eagle -hawk shaped looking kites. I don't know to what extent to go with all of this, I've never had the problem myself.
I don't know how it would affect your pigeons either, but maybe your birds will get used to the decoys. You would think that a large eagle kite would scare the rest of the hawks away, but your pigeons would'nt be afraid, cause the eagle is too slow to catch a pigeon. ( I think ) Caution, be tactful when dealing with the State, They are not going to care, one bit about your birds!
Hope this helps, ND Cooper


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## vasyapersikov (Feb 29, 2008)

thanks ND Cooper! i will try this one!! 
any other ideas?


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## ND Cooper (Mar 4, 2008)

Get more speed out of your birds?, Just Kidding!


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## Denny (Apr 2, 2008)

*Thanks ND Cooper*

Just wanted to thank you for all that great advice. I myself am having a bad hawk problem. A pair of them live high in a tree in my neighbors yard.
I already am out in my yard everytime I loft fly my birds ever since I lost two last year to the same pair of hawks. They get brave and sit in branches closer to my yard but as long as I'm standing in my yard and make occasional eye contact with the hawks they seem to stay on the branch and eventually fly off. I guess to search for easier food elsewhere.

Well, thanks again,


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## vasyapersikov (Feb 29, 2008)

i had a hawk live i a neighbors tree, i smashed a hammer againsted a old pan every day for a week and the hawk hated the sound and moved out but he still comes back for lunch


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## vasyapersikov (Feb 29, 2008)

is there a way or a place were i can get like a hawk decoy thing or owl? i want a big on


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## Guest (Apr 3, 2008)

Denny you are so lucky they stay in the trees for you , I cant even let my birds out without an attack happening within minutes of them leaving the loft outward into the sky and its worse on their return . The coopers here will fly right over your head or whiz right by you no matter what and Im always in the yard when my birds are out ,its like you cant blink or you will miss which way he went and who he took this time .. its out of control here and that whole concept of migration was just a fleeting thought as this bird is not leaving and its already april


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## eric98223 (Aug 4, 2007)

vasyapersikov said:


> thanks ND Cooper! i will try this one!!
> any other ideas?


sorry to hear about your loss, hawks suck for us racers.

but the reason i quoted was that last summer i had a hawk fix a problem i was having. my birds would go out every day and roost on my roof. then one day a hawk came in and let me tell you what, it got them up and flying!! lol they didnt sit around anymore they went out, played, and then go back in quickly .


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Predators*

Most pigeons are able to outmaneuver most birds of prey but of course, that is not always the case. I have lost a few birds to Coopers Hawks and a couple even to Redtails. A Coopers Hawk is pretty fast and relies on a quick attack. I have seen them in hot pursuit of several pigeons over the years. The pigeon usually wins but not always. I have seen a Coopers Hawk sitting in the tree next to my coop, trying to figure out how he's going to get in there.

A Redtail is not likely to catch an adult bird unless it is a poor flier such as a fantail. Fantails would never survive loose in my neighborhood and the Redtails would surely line up every day for an easy meal. We have had a Redtail come into the yard and grab a young, inexperienced bird from the ground.

I have watched my birds flying and when they see a hawk, they do their best to get above the hawk, where they can keep an eye on him. I've also seen them scatter from the roof when they see a hawk coming and again, they would get as high as they could as fast as they could.

I have lost far more birds to raccoons than I have to birds of prey. They killed 80 birds in one night in one of my lofts. I learned that I had to make my coops raccoon proof. If they find an opening, they will rip away at it until it's big enough for them to come in.

As an example of how hard it is for a hawk to get a pigeon. I have a friend who is a falconer and hunts with birds of prey. He also bred Peregrine Falcons and Gyrfalcons and we hunted with both. One afternoon, we took a Peregrine Falcon pigeon hunting at his farm where there were several feral barn pigeons. The pigeons outflew the falcon on every attempt and he never got one bird. I thought it was pretty amusing that the supposed flying rats were outflying the premier hunter of the sky.

At any rate, hawks can be a nusiance, that's for sure. We have to be aware of them and get along with them as we can't really do much about them. As the rural areas are building up with homes, as they are doing where I live, the hawks are learning to come into our yards for an easy meal. They are running out of open fields and natural prey so it stands to reason that they are going to be looking to our pigeons for something to eat. Over the winter, I have watched a Coopers Hawk dash into a flock of Sparrows at my bird feeder and sometimes he gets lucky. I also wathced a Goshawk kill and eat a Robin in my yard. The Redtails are always around but they are more likely to go after rabbits, squirrels or garter snakes, at least around here.

Pigeons are not easy prey, lucky for us. If you see a hawk hanging around your yard or whereever you fly your birds, make note of the time of day. They are definately territorial birds and they will hunt the same areas during the same time as a rule. If we can learn when they are around, this is probably not the best time to let our pigeons out.

Using a decoy type bird of prey may work to some extent but if it doesn't move, it won't take long for the other birds to decide that it's harmless. I have two Great Horned Owl decoys that I put on our swimming pool in an attempt to keep the Grackles from dropping their babies' feces in the pool. It startled them at first but they now realize that one faces each direction and they are able to sneak past the owls and still accomplish their dirty deed.

Bill


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

quote" I have a friend who is a falconer and hunts with birds of prey. He also bred Peregrine Falcons and Gyrfalcons and we hunted with both. One afternoon, we took a Peregrine Falcon pigeon hunting at his farm where there were several feral barn pigeons. The pigeons outflew the falcon on every attempt and he never got one bird. I thought it was pretty amusing that the supposed flying rats were outflying the premier hunter of the sky."

Oh my, Bill you are on shakey ground, with many in this group, with the above statement. Best do some more reading to find out how many of us feel about feral pigeons. 
I'm delighted they were able to outfly your hunting companions.


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*What should I do?*

I don't refer to them as flying rats. I said it because many people of the world do refer to them as such. This bothers me as I consider them to be far less trouble than the English Sparrow, Starling or Grackle. I really love pigeons. I began with feral pigeons in 1961 and have had pigeons ever since. My neighbor is one of the above-mentioned who despises and even fears pigeons. He and his wife are convinced that they are nothing more than disease carrying nusiances. He told me that my pile of pigeon manure that I'm about to use for fertilizer for our lilac collection was a health hazard. I told him that the wild birds that come to his feeder have far more diseases and present more of a health hazard than my pigeons ever will.

I have hunted in my life, both with guns and with birds of prey. I am old, I have done alot of things. I have not hunted with a gun for over 30 years and the only thing I ever hunted for was Pheasants, which used to be abundant here. I would call them nearly nonexistent in my area today. I won't blame hunting but loss of habitat and the presence of new predators (coyotes) as the main causes of their decline.

Should I deny my past experiences or is it OK to share them here? I was merely trying to make a point that most pigeons are outstanding fliers and are not easy prey for any bird of prey, even the Peregrine Falcon.

As for my friend the falconer, he now lives in Idaho and hunts with a Golden Eagle. He is one of about 22 people who are licensed to hunt with an Eagle. He once lost one of his breeder Gyrfalcons to a Golden Eagle while flying him in Montana. Now he hunts with the Eagle instead. You can't really hold anything against a hawk or an eagle for doing what they do. We have to accept nature for what it is and sometimes it is not kind.

Bill


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## ND Cooper (Mar 4, 2008)

Any garden center has plastic owl statues.
Hunters have goose decoys that are mounted on wire rods, that will spin, or turn back and forth when the wind blows. They also have some where the wings flap a little.
It wouldnt take much to get an owl statue to turn in the wind, to make it look around.


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## Shrek (Apr 2, 2008)

jbangelfish said:


> I don't refer to them as flying rats. I said it because many people of the world do refer to them as such. This bothers me as I consider them to be far less trouble than the English Sparrow, Starling or Grackle. I really love pigeons. I began with feral pigeons in 1961 and have had pigeons ever since. My neighbor is one of the above-mentioned who despises and even fears pigeons. He and his wife are convinced that they are nothing more than disease carrying nusiances. He told me that my pile of pigeon manure that I'm about to use for fertilizer for our lilac collection was a health hazard. I told him that the wild birds that come to his feeder have far more diseases and present more of a health hazard than my pigeons ever will.
> 
> I have hunted in my life, both with guns and with birds of prey. I am old, I have done alot of things. I have not hunted with a gun for over 30 years and the only thing I ever hunted for was Pheasants, which used to be abundant here. I would call them nearly nonexistent in my area today. I won't blame hunting but loss of habitat and the presence of new predators (coyotes) as the main causes of their decline.
> 
> ...



haha Bill Thanks for sharing. Some people just aren't as open minded.

Personally I was thinking a .223 with a hollow point would take care of the hawk issue from a nice range. And no bullet to be found. (Remember keep and open mind) Cause that is how people deal with hawks and eagles around here. 

I can't blame the lack of pheasants and such on anyone but farmers. They burn all the ditches, plow under the fields, they absolutely leave no where for the pheasant to live. I can take you for a drive by my place and for 5 miles I will put money down you couldn't hide a pheasant anywhere.


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## Charis (Feb 11, 2007)

jbangelfish said:


> I don't refer to them as flying rats. I said it because many people of the world do refer to them as such. This bothers me as I consider them to be far less trouble than the English Sparrow, Starling or Grackle. I really love pigeons. I began with feral pigeons in 1961 and have had pigeons ever since. My neighbor is one of the above-mentioned who despises and even fears pigeons. He and his wife are convinced that they are nothing more than disease carrying nusiances. He told me that my pile of pigeon manure that I'm about to use for fertilizer for our lilac collection was a health hazard. I told him that the wild birds that come to his feeder have far more diseases and present more of a health hazard than my pigeons ever will.
> 
> I have hunted in my life, both with guns and with birds of prey. I am old, I have done alot of things. I have not hunted with a gun for over 30 years and the only thing I ever hunted for was Pheasants, which used to be abundant here. I would call them nearly nonexistent in my area today. I won't blame hunting but loss of habitat and the presence of new predators (coyotes) as the main causes of their decline.
> 
> ...


I wanted you to know that the ferals and all animals are honored and cherished here too, even sparrow and starlings. Personally, I have a conflicted relationship with the Birds of Prey...I honor them as living creatures and hate it when they make a kill.
I don't ask that you deny who you are. For me to ask you to do so, would not be honoring to you.


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## ND Cooper (Mar 4, 2008)

Jb,Shrek, just some info, You guys should read The about Pigeon Talk section, at the very top, when you first get logged in. The reasons why Pigeon Talk Is here, in the first place.
I live in North Dakota and there are too many pheasents around here in my opinion.
I'm just a guy that has pigeons, and this is the best site that I have found, that will advise, on the subject of Pigeons.
There are other places, for other subjects. I keep that in mind every day.


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## Jaye (Mar 13, 2008)

I posted a similar thread a couple of weeks ago....check it out:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=26023

Based upon the responses there, here is what I have been doing:

1) an idea from forum member Pigeonpoo: You could try hanging up some CDs. The light reflecting off them may stop an attack. If you can get a recording of an eagle owl, play that. How about an old fashioned scarecrow? I don't know if any of these will stop the hawk but they should act as a deterrent. You will need to move them around to stop the hawk getting used to them.

2) a suggestion by a number of people: try attracting Corvids (Ravens or Crows). They are highly intelligent and give hawks hell, around here for sure. The hawks here hate 'em....I think the Ravens just like giving 'em a hard time and playing around with them, but the hawks want no part of the Ravens here....

3) With that said, I found some soundfiles of Raven and Crow calls, which I burned onto a CD and now play several times a day.

http://askabiologist.asu.edu/expstuff/experiments/birdsongs/birds_az.html

I also found soundfiles of Owl calls, which I also play several times a day.

http://www.owlpages.com/sounds.php

the Bubo genus of owls are the eagle owls..the Bubo Bubo and the African Bubo are the ones which actually prey on hawks....so those are the soundfiles I chose...

4) Note the times of the attacks....all of the attacks here came between 8-10 AM. I have been reading that most hawks hunt in the early morning and then before sunset....midday is generally not hunting time for them.
(I am not a pigeon keeper, just a guy who has a lot of neighborhood pigeons around my building.....they sleep in the lightwell, they hang out near my front porch). Until then, I allowed the pigeons to hang out in the lightwell; they would stay sometimes in the morning, and make intermittent visits during the day...but now, I make them fly off at sunrise; they go on their merry way, have their day in the neighborhood...and I do not let them settle back down until near sunset. This was a suggestion by Trees Gray ~ change their schedule a bit.

5) Mirrors. I am trying this in the lightwell, have a mirror pointed up to where the birds would fly in. A more upscale version of this (which I will go for when I have the $$):

http://jedds.com/ProductDetail.asp?MainCategoryID=72&SubCategoryID=753&ProductID=3075

6) Weird stuff: make a scarecrow (scarehawk)....get some fake Raven models....get stuff which reflects light....set up bright colored flags and such....

From my reading...this needs to be changed up relatively often (don't just set up something and leave it in one spot for weeks or months...the hawk will figure it out). Also...it has been suggested to use several methods at the same time...and keep moving them around.

It is unclear whether these things are truly effective long-term....but the way I look at it....anything I can do to make my area less comfortable, and more visually or sonically inconsistent to a hawk....the better the likelihood the hawk may search elsewhere.

Good luck.


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## ND Cooper (Mar 4, 2008)

There should be a whole new thread about Hawk problem/solutions. a sticky
so anyone in the future can just look it up.
I haven't had the problem, so I don't have the solution, or to much advice.
But... what if that day comes?
( hawk solutions)


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

Nothing will ditract a hawk very long. Fake owls, CD s, Not unless its alive will it distract the hawk long. Crows, ravens, Kite hawks, they all move on in the winter months. The hawks move into there winter hunting areas. And they hunt. Hawk populations have sored in the recent years. And primary food sources have shrunk in many areas. In the spring when migrated birds return To the different lands The hawks agin have the wild Food source. NOW the larger slower hawks Still must contend with a reduce natureal supply. So Is nature getting more out of balance because of man. Yes. Can we stpo this NO. But we can offer new balance If its understood. And lands can set aside more native acerage to offer safe breeding of the reduced birds and animals. Look at the cottontail rabbit. Years ago was a very common thing to find them anywhere. Now they are less and less seen. Much less is the old jack rabbit. Geese there are more BUt hawks do not take them as much because geese are larger.


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## vasyapersikov (Feb 29, 2008)

i searched the same question on Google and a guy said that he put six crow decoys on the roof of his loft and there is not one hawk in his area in a year now he said.(hawks hate crows more then any bird or animal there is!)and ones in a while he blows into a crow call he got and it helps!(just the crow call works to if you use it before you let the pigeons out to fry)!!i just got to get some my self!


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## ND Cooper (Mar 4, 2008)

I disagree that crows move on in the winter. There is a really good book about crows ( about 3" thick ) that I read, years back. An adult pair establishes a territory, and keeps it, I'm pretty sure forever. It is only the juviniles that band together in large numbers, they will overun a adult pair's territory untill the food source is gone, but the adult pair, stays.
Sorry, I can't think of the name of the book. But I know that it is in the library, the next time I'm there, I'll find out. Very Informative.
An adults territory is big, thats why it seems that there arn't any around.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

ND Cooper said:


> There should be a whole new thread about Hawk problem/solutions. a sticky
> so anyone in the future can just look it up.
> But... what if that day comes?
> ( hawk solutions)


That's a GOOD idea. A good sticky that we could point people too and hopefully let it go at that pretty much. Seems every few weeks someone brings it up and more often than not, it turns into a debate that get no one anywhere fast and sometimes turns into a little war of words.
Who wants to volunteer to write it?????????


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## Snowbird Sue (Dec 31, 2007)

Hi ND Cooper, I may just have to agree with you on that. Unless, there are specific breeds of hawk that migrate. The only reason I say this, is because I watched a Red-tail all winter. Now, I am seeing Coopers. I was just told today, we also have the shin-tails. So, I guess it would really depend on what hawks do what... It does make sense, tho, and there is a LOT of wilderness around here, LOTS. Some places, haven't even got roads, it is foot traffic only, and it should be great for hawks. So, there is the old question again, why do they want our pigeons?  Anyhow, just my .02!


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## ND Cooper (Mar 4, 2008)

Ease of accessability to food source. (like bears at dumps, or garbage cans )
Or , people to Mc doodles, instead of good home cooked meals 
An attraction.


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## Snowbird Sue (Dec 31, 2007)

OK, I understand that, but have you ever hunted bear? They are hard to get!


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## Shrek (Apr 2, 2008)

Okay I have to throw this in. My Parents had pigeons for years and we had I think just about every hawk in the country around and never had any issue with them. We had kestrols, Perigeons(sp),Redtails, Once in a while a golden eagle or Bald Eagle and a few I don't even know the names of. We never lost any that we know of. They had Rollers and Homing pigeons. We also had ducks, chickens (banties)(sp), and quail by the zillions and I think the only thing we ever lost anything to was a weasel, fox and Raccoon. So what gives? Why are you guys having so many issues?


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## Snowbird Sue (Dec 31, 2007)

We live with the hawks.


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## Shrek (Apr 2, 2008)

ND Cooper said:


> Jb,Shrek, just some info, You guys should read The about Pigeon Talk section, at the very top, when you first get logged in. The reasons why Pigeon Talk Is here, in the first place.
> I live in North Dakota and there are too many pheasents around here in my opinion.
> I'm just a guy that has pigeons, and this is the best site that I have found, that will advise, on the subject of Pigeons.
> There are other places, for other subjects. I keep that in mind every day.


Yep read it. If you really can not see how our posts deal with pigeons then maybe you should re-read its a hawk problem and we were discussing the issues with hawks. Glad you keep that in mind everyday.

For you info. No game for a hawk to feed on (Like Pheasants) then they are going to eat what they can like your Nice plump Pigeons. It all goes hand in hand.


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## Lovebirds (Sep 6, 2002)

It is funny how some have problems and some don't. Of course, we're the only ones within a 30 mile radius that we know of that has pigeons, but we don't have much of a problem at all. We see hawks once in a while and one will give chase once in a while and once in a while means every 3 weeks or so. We've lived here for 6 years and have lost 4 or 5 birds that we know of here in our yard. Now what happens out in the wild blue yonder is anyones guess. We've had two birds come home that were apparently attacked by a hawk. The people we fly with who live about 30 to 50 miles east of us have attacks regularly. One guy had a hawk take one of his laying hens a couple of weeks ago and his neighbor told him that a hawk took one of his beagle puppies.  
We HEAR hawks, but they don't seem to bother our birds that much.


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

ND Cooper said:


> I disagree that crows move on in the winter. There is a really good book about crows ( about 3" thick ) that I read, years back. An adult pair establishes a territory, and keeps it, I'm pretty sure forever. It is only the juviniles that band together in large numbers, they will overun a adult pair's territory untill the food source is gone, but the adult pair, stays.
> Sorry, I can't think of the name of the book. But I know that it is in the library, the next time I'm there, I'll find out. Very Informative.
> An adults territory is big, thats why it seems that there arn't any around.


Around here the crows do move on in the winter. Sure you see one every so often But not many then in early warm up they start showing up agin. I have a couple around now. BUT they have not stopped the hawks. BUT most coopers have moved out for now. Pretty safe to fly youngbirds now. The problem with hawks and pigeons is the pigeons when young are not as wing strong Or hawk smart. They became an aesy target. And years back hawks were less in numbers


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## Snowbird Sue (Dec 31, 2007)

Hi Renee, I am glad you aren't bothered by hawks. They have been here in MI long before I came along. They were here long before I got into pigeons, and I am sure they will be here long after I am gone. No, I don't think it is funny at all, especially when one loses good birds to a hawk. Sure, they gotta eat too, but I'd prefer they went and hunted in the wilderness. I live in the country, and so do the hawks. Sooooo, it is just a part of our life. No need to upset nature, and that is not what we are trying to do, just some venting. Believe it or not, they will take a small pup, or a kitten. When they are hunting, they have one thing in mind: FOOD. 
I talked to a guy this morning, who lost a few birds to hawks already, and he has been into this longer than me, and he was not smiling at all.


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## ND Cooper (Mar 4, 2008)

Shrek, About Pigeon Talk, forum conduct. Sorry I should have been more specific. 
I did not make the rules.
Hi, Sue No I have not hunted Bear,
But in parts of this country, I'm sure that it's not much of a challange! especially if it's legal to bait for them!
When people post comments, It's easy to forget, that, different regons of the country have different animal activity, that are directly affected by human populations, In That Area. Other areas of the country are different in many ways.
The point is, It's too easy just to say That the US has too many hawks. 
Where? What part of the country, ect. ect.
When I read a post, the first thing I do is look at the persons handle and wonder where this person is at, because that's where the problem Is.
That's why under my name it says New Leipzig, North Dakota
It's hard to take anyones advice when I don't know the regon where it's comming from, and when I post, I hope that my comments are not too general, and that I have some kind of fact to back them up with.
I also hope that I abide by the rules of this site, without makeing too many mistakes.
Sorry for getting huffy, but when someone says that they read something that I suggest they read, and then they don't, or they did and still don't care, What more can I do?


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## ND Cooper (Mar 4, 2008)

I fish+ hunt sometimes also.
I hope that I didn't come across as being only one sided.


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## Snowbird Sue (Dec 31, 2007)

ND Cooper said:


> I fish+ hunt sometimes also.
> I hope that I didn't come across as being only one sided.


Not at all. I used to fish too, but with the high gas prices, my boat ain't costing me nothing just parked in the yard. I do like to hunt tho. It is always a nice challenge. thanks for the note..


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Hawks, etc*

I live in an area of Northern Illinois that has had the largest crow population in the US. That is the area around Rockford Illinois. There were many articles written about this huge crow population in National Geographic and probably countless other publications. Back in the 1920's or 30's, the largest government sanctioned crow kill took place in Winnebago County, the home of Rockford.

Rockford is called the forest city as all of the city streets were lined with large elm trees that created a canopy or tunnel on most of the streets in a fairly large town (150,000 people). I lived on one of those streets until I was 8 years old and I certainly remember the elm trees that completely covered the street. 

By the 1960's, nearly every elm tree in Rockford was dead or dieing from Dutch Elm disease. These trees had been there since the late 1800's when some sort of mass planting took place. Nowadays, an elm will be lucky to reach the age of 20 years and not exceed 30 feet or so. The ones that lined the streets were 80 feet or so. It made for quite a sight.

The fact that Rockford had so many large elms was an attraction to crows and so the problem was born. Crows are very smart birds and learn that a city means garbage and food and all the elms provided nesting sites and shelter.

The population I believe was over 1,000,000 birds and there was a concern over their roosting sites having disease. When there are so many crows, the vegetation and even trees will begin to die out. If I remember right, they blew the birds up with dynamite while they were roosting. If I remember correctly, they killed around a quarter million crows.

When I was a kid, there was a bounty on crows which was 10 cents per bird. There was also one on fox at $5 each. Nowadays, there are still plenty of crows but the population is nowhere near what it used to be. The foxes are nearly gone, mostly due to the large presence of coyotes which began to appear in the 60's.

My point to all of this nonsense is that even with the largest crow population in the US, hawks are still present in good numbers. While they don't like crows, I think they consider them to be more of a nuisance than anything and a minor irritation as they go about their business of hunting from the air. I don't think that they have any fear of them in the least.

If you'll notice, all birds tend to fly at hawks in flight (except pigeons) as they are trying to chase them away from their area where they probably have young. Small birds also chase crows and you can see the crow looking back in disgust as the little pests are trying to chase them away. Again, I don't think there is any fear, just a bother. Kind of like when I try to mow my lawn and the pesty little Red Wing Blackbird flies at my head, sometimes hitting my hat as I mow within a distance of his nest that makes him angry. He makes me angry too but I tolerate him.

Bill


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## ND Cooper (Mar 4, 2008)

So , the crows did not migrate in and out of the area?


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## jbangelfish (Mar 22, 2008)

*Nope*

The crows are here year round. I have no idea if they migrate in other areas of the country but not here. Native hawks do not migrate here either. The Sharp Shinned Hawk is one of the few migratory ones in this area and I have only seen them during their migration. I have seen a huge flock of them several times in my life, usually in the fall when they are headed south. I don't really know where they are coming from or where they are going but it's a pretty cool sight.

We have a cabin in Northern Wisconsin and the crows are there all year as well. It is possible that some of them leave but certainly not all of them.

Bill


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## vasyapersikov (Feb 29, 2008)

I was out feeding my dog and a HUGE hawk grabbed a pigeon 10 feet away from my  i jumped the fence and ran after is within a few seconds if was on the ground looking at me run and holding the pigeon on the ground. i screamed as loud as i could and the hawk flew away letting go of the pigeon and the pigeon flew home! . all it had was a small scratch on it! And it layed eggs 30 min. after the catch so its OK now. this was April 03!


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## Snowbird Sue (Dec 31, 2007)

vasyapersikov said:


> I was out feeding my dog and a HUGE hawk grabbed a pigeon 10 feet away from my  i jumped the fence and ran after is within a few seconds if was on the ground looking at me run and holding the pigeon on the ground. i screamed as loud as i could and the hawk flew away letting go of the pigeon and the pigeon flew home! . all it had was a small scratch on it! And it layed eggs 30 min. after the catch so its OK now. this was April 03!


WOW! What a good save! I am glad it is OK! Not too many are! Maybe you should name this one "Lucky"!!!


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