# $500-$1000 to spend?



## newbiebulldoger (Apr 7, 2014)

who would you get your birds from? Im looking at a few lofts at the moment but need some better opinions. I want 2 good stock birds to begin with. can anyone point me in a good direction?


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## ssyyb2 (Sep 4, 2011)

Ron deisher without a doubt is who I would go to.


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## newbiebulldoger (Apr 7, 2014)

just emailed him. looks nice!


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## ssyyb2 (Sep 4, 2011)

What part of the country are you from?


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

Well we need a little more info, what race do you want to win, short, middle, long distance, or do you want to enter One Loft Races. I think if I was starting over I would look at several OLR's I wouldn't buy the winning bird as they are usually one hit wonders, I would buy the average speed or high points bird.

Ron Deisher would be a good person but I wouldn't just walk up to him and say I have a $1000 and want you best. Who ever I decided to go with I would make friends with them and find out what their best is and buy several children or grand children from them.
Dave


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## ssyyb2 (Sep 4, 2011)

Crazy Pete said:


> Well we need a little more info, what race do you want to win, short, middle, long distance, or do you want to enter One Loft Races. I think if I was starting over I would look at several OLR's I wouldn't buy the winning bird as they are usually one hit wonders, I would buy the average speed or high points bird.
> 
> Ron Deisher would be a good person but I wouldn't just walk up to him and say I have a $1000 and want you best. Who ever I decided to go with I would make friends with them and find out what their best is and buy several children or grand children from them.
> Dave


The nice thing about Ron is he is going to ask these questions. He would not just take advantage of someone! He has been nothing but awesome to me. I went to him to buy a white grizzle hen. Ya several awesome birds later  I have an impressive 5 pair of breeders!


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## beatlemike (Nov 28, 2009)

I bet you have already received a number of private messages from people eagerly wanting to sell you the best birds around. Take your time and check around and If I were you I wouldn't be saying I have 500 to 1000 dollars to spend on birds.


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## newbiebulldoger (Apr 7, 2014)

Crazy Pete said:


> Well we need a little more info, what race do you want to win, short, middle, long distance, or do you want to enter One Loft Races. I think if I was starting over I would look at several OLR's I wouldn't buy the winning bird as they are usually one hit wonders, I would buy the average speed or high points bird.
> 
> Ron Deisher would be a good person but I wouldn't just walk up to him and say I have a $1000 and want you best. Who ever I decided to go with I would make friends with them and find out what their best is and buy several children or grand children from them.
> Dave



Im completely new to this sport, but do have a good base on performance animals. Im located in Indiana, and i contacted a club by me and one of the guys there mentioned that he would be willing to start me off with 20 birds free. he mentioned that it was off good stock birds, but thats all i got out of it. I was in a state of shock when he said free. I feel like I would like to get into mid and long distance birds. the thought of an animal pulling off that mileage is inspiring to me lol. Im still heavily researching and reading at the moment. Im hoping to have my loft set up by the end of this month, and birds getting homed in within the first 2wks of next month.


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## newbiebulldoger (Apr 7, 2014)

beatlemike said:


> I bet you have already received a number of private messages from people eagerly wanting to sell you the best birds around. Take your time and check around and If I were you I wouldn't be saying I have 500 to 1000 dollars to spend on birds.






nope no pm's in regards to this thread. at least not yet lol. Im only inquiring as of now.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

I think I would do some research and find out who wins the races, and the guy that offered the birds I would take 2 or 3 pair even if they were not that good you would end up with a mentor and that's a big bonus.
Dave

Don't get in a hurry do your research


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## TheLaw818 (Mar 12, 2012)

Look no further- Contact Don Campbell....He is a member on this board and many can vouch for the quality of his birds and results .......


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## njhntr (Jun 5, 2012)

Hello,
Interesting posting .
I think that you should never say how much you can spend.
Heres my offer FREE birds for a new person to our sport, Your invited to view my birds anytime If your in my area.
Bracey Va 23919
Whatever just take your time


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## newbiebulldoger (Apr 7, 2014)

Crazy Pete said:


> I think I would do some research and find out who wins the races, and the guy that offered the birds I would take 2 or 3 pair even if they were not that good you would end up with a mentor and that's a big bonus.
> Dave
> 
> Don't get in a hurry do your research




i was thinking the same. I was really thinking of 2-3 pairs of his and then a good brood cock/hen to work with. Im not in too much of hurry at the moment. just getting things together. I just wanted to see what and who members would mention as good breeders/racers, basically a hypothetical statement of what someone would do in this case scenario. it truly doesnt mean i have such money, or that im willing to put it up either.


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## ejb3810 (May 21, 2012)

I would suggest that you contact Rick Nanez at Nanez Family Loft. Rick is primarily involved in One Loft Races and does not fly in competition himself at this time. Many people are doing very well with birds from his stock in club, combine and federation competition. Although he does sell many birds through the auction, that is not his primary goal. He is breeding to produce birds for competition, and he has many different strains that he uses in his program.
Tell him you are on a limited budget but would like to get a quality breeding pair or two.
He can't guarantee that you will end up with a hit pair, but neither can anyone else who will be honest about it.


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

Something else I would recommend that you consider in your research: In addition to looking at the results of the birds or birds' parents in questions, consider also finding two families of birds and buy into those families. 

When I first started I accepted free birds and bought birds from anyone and everyone that sounded good at the time. I wouldn't do that again. I would research the distances, the families and the person who flies them. I would want to know that their birds are winning through multiple generations and for other people who may be handling them differently. You don't want to buy birds that are successful because of their handler's expertise - you want them because they are good birds. 

The reason I suggest sticking closely to only one or two families is so you can continue to get more predictable results since the genes will be more closely stacked. By using two families, you can test which one does better for you under your conditions, then you can consider crossing the two families if they both do well.


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

This to me is another, if I had to start over again what would I do differently threads. I will start off my saying that Rick Nanez is one of the best One Loft Race performers in the country, averaging 121 1st and equal 1sts, his birds have won in my club for others and myself. Don Campbell is a great flier I haven't tried his birds yet but the guy knows what he is doing and he is a nice person to talk to on the phone. 

If I were to start over again, I wouldn't have bought any pigeons I read those articles in the digest and bought into them, contacted the people and paid money that I saved up all summer. As I am entering my third breeding season and fourth year flying all those birds I purchased my first year are no longer here. Instead I have birds that were given to me by my mentor (don't get me wrong they've been weeded through as well only 2 of 13 remain), I went out and bought the pair to my best bird from my first year flying for $50 (we all like to give birds to those who are starting out or had something get in their coop and kill their birds, the pigeon community rallies together to make sure that person has birds to fly). That pair has bred numerous diploma, money, and race winners for me, as well as being grandparents and great grandparents to race, diploma, and money winners, I probably wouldn't sell them for $5,000 now! Right now in my coop if I took out the receipts the prices would range from $0-200, the most proven breeders cost $25. I think if you could get 4 youngsters from 10 different people (or however many young birds you want to fly) whether it is for free or at a very reasonable price fly them, and the ones that you flew the best and have all or at least 3 left from that flier contact that person for late hatches out of their best stock. 

Another thing I will say is that ace in the hole (a member on here) loft has bred me some awesome race birds and (I don't know if I am supposed to say this) he was telling me he wants to cut his breeders by more than half. For $500-1000 you could get some good, proven birds from him, they don't have fancy strains, but you'll be reading a lot of "won 1st, 1st, 2nd or bred 1st place winners, etc, etc".


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## Rod Hultquist (Aug 23, 2009)

If you are new to the sport, take the birds that are free and learn with them for a couple of years before going out and spending a lot of money on pigeons. Learn how to feed, medicate, train and basically maintain your loft to achieve the healthiest conditions. Learn the different ways that fanciers motivate their racers. If you can find an experienced flyer to be your mentor, it will shorten the learning curve. In two or three years you'll know more about what kind of birds you want to buy.


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## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

I'd sure agree with the others....I'd take those free babies in a heart beat. If you can get a few from several guys even better. For most people the breeding season is winding down so for you to invest in breeders at this point probably wouldn't pay off. If you've got some birds to have fun with and learn some things at the cost of setting up a loft and some feed you can't beat it. This way you'll have all summer and fall to play with your birds and dream about your plans for next year. Everyone will have stories to tell about the gift bird they have that's one of there best.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

I would take the $500 and build you a nice loft. Then I would look for guys in the club that win races and get a handful of late hatches off their best. Spending money on ? birds is just that a gamble or ?. Like Warren used to say on here, "only 10% of what the best breed is any good". There very good breeders on PT that can hook you up. I would get a few good pair or a team of young birds and race the heck out of them. Find a loft that has spent a good time developing a nice family of birds. A guy that wins. No need to chase RPD adds and spend a load of money.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

It is funny, I had a guy from the club I fly with come and see my birds and pick up some young birds the other day. I asked him if he needed some good breeders. He said he gets his birds from this big name and that big name. I showed him a section of my breeders with 6 pair. The first pair bred the 2nd high points bird in the club, the second pair had bred 3 top 10s in the club, the third pair had bred the 250 yb winner in the spring, the 4th pair had bred 2nd high point two years prior, the 5th pair was made up of my futurity winner and the two years prior 250 winner, the last pair bred two birds the year before, both top 10s. He still did not want any birds. I do not get why guys in the club chase big name birds instead of local proven winners. Maybe if I would have shown him the pedigrees. I don't get people.


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## Crazy Pete (Nov 13, 2008)

Well when your birds win and his big name birds don't you just may have to sell him some for big bucks just to teach him a lesson.
Dave


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## ssyyb2 (Sep 4, 2011)

There is a guy from Colorado joining our club and I offered to raise ybs for him. His response was "I don't want the clubs free junk my birds are way better!" Oh how many breeders do you have? One pair he says! Loll I hope their really really good!


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Ssyybfamloft said:


> There is a guy from Colorado joining our club and I offered to raise ybs for him. His response was "I don't want the clubs free junk my birds are way better!" Oh how many breeders do you have? One pair he says! Loll I hope their really really good!


Thats funny. Many club guys have just as good of birds. I am on my 3rd generation from my foundation and still have 3 of my foundation breeders. One hen is down from two $3000 Ganus birds, one is son of a top 10 Vegas classic Vic Miller bird purchased for $1500 and the other off a $1000 auction bird. Some put the wealth of a bird soly on its purchase price. Like my mentor told me when he game me the birds in 2004, "If you have to ask how much they are, you can't afford them." When he sent me the pedigrees a month later, my jaw hit the floor.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Out of the 12 birds he originally sent me home with around 10 were quality and three were exceptional. I am breeding from 12 of their direct children having paired up two of the three that are still a pair. Of my 20 breeders, 18 are related to those three. 
Start with quality birds, not $1000 birds. I feel I could buy any bird form a breeding station, right now cross them in and do a disservice to my family of birds. On the other hand I know a few birds from my club, i.e. the 2012 high points bird that won three races in my club, that would strengthen my team. I did offer the guy my race winner the same year to breed with the bird for a round of babies.


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

hillfamilyloft said:


> I do not get why guys in the club chase big name birds instead of *local proven* winners. Maybe if I would have shown him the *pedigrees*. I don't get people.


Why can't we have both? 

One reason, IMO, that a new flyer has to be cautious about getting birds from the local flyer is that he could be winning because of a number of reasons outside of the actual birds. Ask if his birds perform well for others and if he has repeat customers. 

And also, Randy, I know you prefer the "local" and "free" proven stuff, but someone somewhere had to pay top dollar for the stuff that bred your birds, right? So in other words, let someone else break out the wallet and see if it will trickle down to us LOL? That can work if you get to know the right people. More often than not, you get what you pay for. You appear to be an anomaly to that saying. I was not when I got my first birds. 

I'm not disagreeing with anything anyone has said here because it's all good advice. Buyer beware ALWAYS. 

The three things I look at which have differing weights depending on the price:

1) Performance - preferably the bird itself that you are acquiring has performed well more than a couple of times under conditions that are a good test. If the bird itself hasn't performed, then parents or siblings should have (see #3). Hopefully the bird you are buying has the performance AND so does many other members of it's family.

2) Pedigree - I don't want a cross unless one of the sides is of the family I already have and there is exceptional performance by the bird itself. I want some common ancestors in order to pack the gene pool in my favor.

3) The family performs the way I intend to race (distance and conditions) and the family performs for multiple generations and for multiple flyers. i.e. Koopman, Klass, Gaby, Hofken, Janssen, etc.

All we are doing is trying to stack the odds in our favor and there are a lot of ways to do that. The birds themselves are a HUGE factor in the equation. Free is fantastic, but free or cheap isn't the answer just like $3000 isn't the answer on it's own.


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## ssyyb2 (Sep 4, 2011)

I won't lie I am also breeding for color so contacting mr deisher put me ahead! I want mostly white grizzles blacks and rrs. My blacks perform right there with the guy that has raced 60 yrs my white grizzles are ok and I am yet to raise a Rr.


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## raftree3 (Oct 16, 2010)

I gotta stick with those free youngsters! There's no better way to get hooked on this sport than having some babies out there flying around in circles and trapping into your loft that you've carefully built. You'll learn how to actually keep pigeons fed and happy. Once you've got that figured out .....buy, beg or borrow.....your choice!


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## bbcdon (Oct 16, 2007)

ejb3810 said:


> I would suggest that you contact Rick Nanez at Nanez Family Loft. Rick is primarily involved in One Loft Races and does not fly in competition himself at this time. Many people are doing very well with birds from his stock in club, combine and federation competition. Although he does sell many birds through the auction, that is not his primary goal. He is breeding to produce birds for competition, and he has many different strains that he uses in his program.
> Tell him you are on a limited budget but would like to get a quality breeding pair or two.
> He can't guarantee that you will end up with a hit pair, but neither can anyone else who will be honest about it.


I agree 100% with you!!! You could not meet a nicer person, and someone who is honest. I will tell you a story which was relayed to me.....there was an auction for fundraising purposes. Well, one of his birds went for around $2,500. He approached the person after the auction, and told him that is was a lot of money. Well, he told the person that he would contact him. He shipped to him a pair of breeders at absolutely no cost!!! And just check the OLR he participates in.....he is always near the top!!!


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## ejb3810 (May 21, 2012)

hillfamilyloft has made a very good point, in that perhaps the quality of the loft is of great importance and should be considered as well as the birds that go into it.
Unless a person overcrowds the loft, there is nothing to be lost from trying gift birds. In many cases gift birds turn out the equal or better to high priced birds bought somewhere.
The guys that spend $1,000 or $2,000 each for babies makes little sense, because you are more likely to get a mediocre or poor performer than an outstanding one no matter what the parents are?
If you investigate the history of the exceptional European lofts you will frequently find that they are regularly bringing new blood into their loft. Frequently they get a round of youngsters from a little know fancier that has a history of very good race results.


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## soundmajorr (Apr 13, 2012)

kastle I agree with you 100% on what you stated, 

_"One reason, IMO, that a new flyer has to be cautious about getting birds from the local flyer is that he could be winning because of a number of reasons outside of the actual birds. Ask if his birds perform well for others and if he has repeat customers."_

On the club level not everyone is a good handler, and you have some exceptional handlers. However, just because you get birds from them doesnt mean that they will win or place high for you. And on the other end, you can take some average to decent birds, and if your a great handler I think you and get some print birds. And in the end the birds have to fly. Many birds will be lost, hit a wire, not home or survive training. 

I would recommend doing a little bit of everything. take some gift birds, make some purchases but dont go breaking your bank just yet. Once you get a taste of the pigeon game or success in this sport your going to want everything you see. You will find out what family line you will start to like, your going to want a bigger loft, feeding mehtods, training methods, and many more factors will change. 

When I first joined my club, I joined with 13 birds. I knew this wasnt enough to compete, but I wanted to learn how the club scene worked, how to properly train birds, feed, learn a system such as the light system. My second year ended up being successful. So my advice would be to do a little of everything and keep expectations low this year. We all could point you in the right direction for birds CBS, Ganus, Don Campbell, Nanez, Gallo, Clausing, Bieche and many more. but before you figure out the family that suites you best, test some birds out and see what you like.


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## First To Hatch (Jul 19, 2009)

I wouldn't take breeders as gifts...I'll be honest there I haven't really gotten anywhere with those birds. I will take youngsters and fly them myself, that is the way to do it! Then like I said go buy breeders from those people that gave you good youngsters. The thing about young birds is, no one knows if they are good or not because even if the breeder thinks they are bad, he really doesn't know they could be great. My friend had a pair of birds they bred terrible young for two years so he let them wean their last youngster and culled the parents. That youngster won three races!


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## Kastle Loft (May 7, 2008)

> I would recommend doing a little bit of everything. take some gift birds, make some purchases but dont go breaking your bank just yet. Once you get a taste of the pigeon game or success in this sport your going to want everything you see. You will find out what family line you will start to like, your going to want a bigger loft, feeding mehtods, training methods, and many more factors will change.


^^^YES



ejb3810 said:


> there is nothing to be lost from trying gift birds. In many cases gift birds turn out the equal or better to high priced birds bought somewhere.


 I think there is a great deal to be lost by trying gift birds. If the gift birds are crap, then a new flyer won't learn anything and will get very discouraged and possibly quit. You could be set back by YEARS by trying to make something out of nothing. I speak from experience. So please, *don't accept free birds just because they are free*. Take them because they are proven, or from a proven family that fly well in your conditions and for multiple lofts.



ejb3810 said:


> If you investigate the history of the exceptional European lofts you will frequently find that they are regularly bringing new blood into their loft. Frequently they get a round of youngsters from a little know fancier that has a history of very good race results.


Yes, but they are not getting them for free.


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## hillfamilyloft (Jun 22, 2005)

Get the best birds you can find on your budget. You will be better off in the long run. The questions is which birds will those be? The best are not always the most expensive.


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## donald campbell (Oct 30, 2011)

Kastle loft is on the money, check out the fancier and his race record, birds in race & number of lofts competing why obtain birds from a loft with 5 members in it. PressingOn loft also I like a family which selected only the best to add in the family


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## wildcat hunter (Jan 17, 2014)

A lot depends on what you want to do. Some "families need road work to win races. That takes time and $$$. You like the idea of long distance racing so those birds do not need to be "roaded a lot. Train them when young ( single toss, they do not come home in a bunch usually ) and put them out there as old birds. Like was posted, check out the race results but don't just buy birds from a person - get young from the parents of the winning stock. Some people make a name and its "implied they are all good breeders in their lofts - cannot happen. Get stock from the parents of winners.


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## donald campbell (Oct 30, 2011)

when I started I obtained marles/ evens youngsters and I did not go wrong 56 diplomas in a 400-500 bird race each week 2013 yb season have been wining with them for 4 yrs. PRESSINGON LOFT


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## newbiebulldoger (Apr 7, 2014)

just wanted to update this thread. I got a hold of an oldtimer by me who has raced for almost all his life. He mentioned that he has some Mona lisa blood and others that he will be willing to start me off with for under $100 a pair. he mentioned he has consistent wins with them, so im going next week to check him out. he said he will mentor me into basic animal husbandry with these birds. I cant wait! sad part about it is he says he is basically on deaths door. says he loves the sport so much he wouldn't mind sharing his knowledge before he passes.


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## Brown Family Lofts (Jun 26, 2013)

newbiebulldoger said:


> just wanted to update this thread. I got a hold of an oldtimer by me who has raced for almost all his life. He mentioned that he has some Mona lisa blood and others that he will be willing to start me off with for under $100 a pair. he mentioned he has consistent wins with them, so im going next week to check him out. he said he will mentor me into basic animal husbandry with these birds. I cant wait! sad part about it is he says he is basically on deaths door. says he loves the sport so much he wouldn't mind sharing his knowledge before he passes.


Where you from in indiana. I am from down by Evansville. I would have agree with I believe hill family build nice loft. You can get quality pigeons from Ron someone on here or auction site.


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