# 14 days and still going strong



## makita725 (Dec 29, 2005)

Hi All,
Well it has been two weeks since my little bundle of joy came into my life. As many of you already know from the pictures she is a bit behind in her growth but she is a strong little girl and I expect that she will continue to grow and maybe someday soon gets some feathers. I never would have thought that it would be so much work caring for her well worth it but tuff. I give lots of credit to pigeon parents She is currently eating 4 times per day about 7cc's a feeding. When should I start increasing the amount per feeding? Just in case anyone did notsee her latest pictures the link is below.


http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/makita725/detail?.dir=18b1&.dnm=40f2re2.jpg&.src=ph


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Makita,

Your little one is very small, but I would try to increase the amount of food each day by at least 1 cc per day for each feeding. My little ones (the Evicted ones) are also a tad small but are easily taking 9-10 cc each feeding at about 10 days of age. ie .. tomorrow give your baby 8 cc each feeding .. next day give 9 cc each feeding and so on until you get to about 20 cc or weaning time. 

I think your little one should be up to 15-20 cc per feeding by now at two weeks of age. You can't just go from where you are to the much larger feedings, but I think you do need to gradually increase the amount of each feeding. Watch carefully for slow crop!

You have done an awesome job with this little one, and I can't wait to see a "real" bird in photos!

Terry


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi makita275,

Yahhhhhh...

I never seem to remember the cc amounts, but whatever their little Crop will hold comfortably...and even when this age, they can certainly hold quite a bit for their size..! - and often...


Is he an enthusiastic eater?

What are you feeding him? ( and how are you feeding him? ) 

How are the poops?

Best wishes!

Phil
Las Vegas


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hi Makita, We do it the way Terry described to you. Your baby definitely needs more per feeding BUT increase like Terry said.

Maggie


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## makita725 (Dec 29, 2005)

Thanks for the advice once again! I was following the instuctions for hand feeding that I found on the internet. It said to keep her at 6cc's from day 5 to 21, boy am I glad I asked! ANyway I have only been filling her crop about 3/4 of the way so today I starting filling it all the way and she easily took 10 cc's I will continue to increase her by 1cc a feeding until we make it up to 20. Today she got her first pin feathers!!! on her wings.

Phil to answer your question 
Is he an enthusiastic eater?

What are you feeding him? ( and how are you feeding him? ) 

Enthusiastic is an understatement, she attacks the syringe
She is eating a mix of ZuPreem baby bird formula, ground wild bird seed, ground chick starter food and peep mesh. Today I added a drop of banana baby food to her feeding (my adults luv banana)
I was tube feeding her until about 3 days ago, she is now taking it from the syringe without the tube. I have also watched alittle bit closer today to the time that it takes for her crop to empty it was about 4 hours now it is closer to 3. Is it ok for me to feed her that often or should I just increase the amount? I dont want to over load her with more food and more often and, if that is not whats in her best interest!

Terry- I can't wait to see a REAL bird too! but I will sure miss my little baby when she grows up


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Makita,

Just as a point of interest or comment .. by day 21 a baby pigeon should be starting to show interest in seeds and perhaps even be almost self feeding. I have had a few little ones wean themselves as early as about 18 days and most will be weaned by 28 days at the latest. Thus, 6 cc per feeding up to 21 days, would really compromise the growth and health of the young bird. Baby pigeons can take as much as ~30 cc per feeding when they are nearing the weaning stage.

You don't want to overload the crop, and you do want to wait until the crop is empty or nearly so before feeding again. There is no set rule for how much to feed or how often .. waiting for the crop to empty is the safest way to go. Obviously, if the crop doesn't empty within a reasonable time, then there is a problem that has to be addressed. 

Pin feathers! Wow! Going to have a big bird soon! You are doing a fine job in raising this little one. Please keep us posted.

Terry


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## makita725 (Dec 29, 2005)

Thanks Terry,
She makes me feel like a proud mommy everytime I look at her. Thanks for the info on the weaning, now I know that I should not trust everything I read on the internet. Poor baby would have been pretty small if I would have followed the directions that I found for hand feeding. Thank Godness for Pigeon Talk and ever member. Thanks to everyone Destiny will overcome her slow development and be a big bird!


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Makita275,



They need to eat a lot really, from the beginning, according to what their Crops will hold and how soon it passes...

At 15 days, I think I was feeding little Winter-Baby something like 160 - 180 cc a day...roughly two hour intervals, eight feeds or ten...

Some will eat more, some less of course, and his Crop seemed to empty well in two to two and a half hours...45 to 50 poops-a-day or meaning, in 24 hr) is one indicator of them eating enough...

Keeping them warm enough of course is also very important and if they are not warm enough they do not digest as fast and or can get into some bad troubles...


I use a regular people-baby Rubber Nipple, the kind that goes onto a Baby Bottle but I do not use the Bottle of course, and feed them from the hollow side...gently pinching the flexible Nipple so it can be felt against the sides of their tender little Beak.


You might glean some insights from the following thread for which this link - 



http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=13821

And...in the thread is this link also which goes to various images showing me feeding him and so on...captions are under the images when you elect the 'Slide Show' mode...

http://community.webshots.com/album/547324376ZDjOCU


Also, I will append some images of a 'Squeaker Warm House' which works very well for them and is easy to do -

Images show a cardboard Box on it's side with it's flaps semi open...an electric Heating Pad is inside, with a towell under it that extends out like a little porch, and, a soft rumpled towell also goes on it for them to lay on...

Then, over the front, I drapee usually some Shirt that was due for laundering, so the Collar defines a little entrance exit for them to trundle out of for feed times when I call them.

Phil
Las Vegas


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## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Now...

With little Winter, I set up his 'Squeaker Warm House' on my bed next to my pillow, instead of having it on some table or other.


Food wise...

I usually use 'Hagens Breeding Mash' and add things to it...

I take dried 'Goji Berries' and Sea Weed and various whole Seeds and put them into a blender and make a semi-coarse powder of them and add about half that to half Hagens...and then also I add powdered Greens ( Wheat Grass, Barley leaves and so on ) and maybe other things depending on age and condition...

I mix this dry medley of ingredients then with water, making a new batch each day, or even more then once a day, frm scratch, and never use it for more than a day once mized with Water...

I refridgerate between uses...

I mix it in a cup, in a pan of hot water...and one must never use a Microwave which can make really 'hot' spots in it that can burn their delicate little Crops.

I make it so it is about the consistancy of a Milk Shake, or even a little Soupier maybe...and, I fill the hollow side of the Nipple about 7/8ths full so when they put their Beak into it it will not spill over.

The Nipple holds about 7 cc...so, dependong on age and Crop room, they may eat one or two helpings, or three, or four at any one feeding.

For the especially tiny or young, I cut the nipple down and just use the narrower bottom part which of course holds less but suits their tiny Beaks better...

Now too, I always start off in a particular way with any new arrived little one -

I moisten my finger tips in warm water, and gently massage their Beak while facing them, while I say "oooooOOooooo! - ooooooOOOOoooo!" in a fairly slow low voice, suggesting something good is being offered.

They then respond with some tentative nuzzleings, shoulder humping or peeping, whereupon I offer some tepid water or Electrolyte in the hollow nipple...and they drink...

Then, they are primed to eat in this way, and from then on, when I do the "ooooOOooooo!" call, they know it is chow time or Water time and come trundleing out of their little Warm House. or, if too little to do that, I bring them out and put them back in when done.

One holds the nipple gently in front of them at about their Crop's height, tilted toward them, and one gently moves it toward them for them to swallow, then one moves it gently away from them as they eat...really, one sensitively follows how they wish to move in this regard and like with a dancing pardner, one lets them lead...

At 14 or 16 days one can get them to start eating small whole Seeds if one wants, but I did not do this with Winter till he was older...

Where, since they are used to the Nipple, one instead offers some little deep narrow container, like a Shot Glass, full of small whole Seeds, and one guides their Beak into it while one keeps one's finger tips on the sides of their Beak, and, they will 'gobble' the Seeds nicely.

This then, after a few rounds, sees them gobbleing on their own when the Seeds are so offered, and, then, very soon, the same day usually, they are pecking well...

They can over eat when at this stage, so one must watch them closely and not leave too many seeds for them. Really, when 'gobbleing' they can stuff themselves in mere seconds!

I will Nipple Feed till they decide to leave off of it, which for some is at around 30 something days, and for others maybe even 50 something days or so, but sooner or later they all decide they are too grown up for it and even if they get all wound up about it, they decide they do not want it anymore.


Once they are about 25 days or so, and eating Seeds well on their own, I tend to offer the nipple only once-a-day ( but they will eat five or six or seven helpings! by then, at a meal...) and soon after, I offer it only once every other day...


Socializeing them to their feral or wild fellows should be begun really at about 18 days or something, and having an "oooooOOOooooo!" to call them with pays off well later once they are flying, or if they trundle off or something, yet are too young yet to really go off and be on their own...so...the forays to be with or graze with the wild others is something one does quite a few forays of for them to be ready to join them once the time comes.

Certainly one a youngster is pecking well, he or she can graze with the wild others and have somehting to 'do' that way besides stand there.

One merely takes them to be with some wild grazing flock ( and or cultivates an acquaintance qith some wild flock so one can do this,) and sits or crouches there watching over them as they socialize...and in the beginning they are intimidated and tremble and are nervous and after a few rounds of it they are easy and comfortable and pecking away with the others.

Have you access to some feral flock for such sojournes?


Phil
Las Vegas


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