# Poisoning



## draykie (Dec 14, 2006)

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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

This is a terrible situation, I have been through this and it is heartbreaking.
Do you know when they are coming? Is there any way to talk them out of this? What if you promise them you stop feeding the birds? 
You need to have activated charcoal on hands in case you do find a poisoned bird. I takes only a few hours for the symptoms to develop from the time they ingest the poison.
Is there a way you can go up to the roof anf sweep up the poisoned food?

Reti


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Hi Draykie

I am sorry you are experiencing this problem with potential poisoning. Maybe if you can get up to the roof and sweep all the poisoned seeds you can prevent this from harming any of the pigeons.

"Jazaroo" recently got in a pigeon that he suspects was poisoned. Here is his recent post about how he handled it. He will probably be on later and can describe in more detail how much activated charcoal he uses.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=193260&postcount=55


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## draykie (Dec 14, 2006)

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## feralpigeon (Feb 14, 2005)

Where abouts are you located and will you have access to the roof? Can you take pictures? Will the Pest Control Co. be pulling a permit to do this? There are rules they have to follow and if they are getting any other birds up there
that are protected species, then you may be able to stop them. Also, if any of the poison they put out gets rained on and carried off the roof top and down to the ground level and into storm drains this would be a major No-No as well. You may not be able to go toe to toe on the topic of getting rid of pigeons, but you surely can on other related issues that are strongly legislated. Also, why is your building not electing to do preventative measures as opposed to poisoning once they roost there. This would be a one time monetary expenditure and many cities provide economic incentives for folks to install pigeon deterrents to roosting as well.

fp


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## draykie (Dec 14, 2006)

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## littlestar (May 11, 2005)

I would makes sure they have a permit and not some fly by night company. The other thing is that these pest control people not just poision pigeons but many other native song birds. If you can find out what they are using, some poisions are illegal to use.


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## draykie (Dec 14, 2006)

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## Nuke (Mar 26, 2007)

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You should check with the laws in your area,I know it would be illegal in my area to endanger a federally protected bird of prey,which may eat a poisoned pigeon and get sick/or die.The laws where you are, are different than the ones i must abide by,so maybe your pest control can use different poisons than what would be legal here in the US..........
My experience with poisoned birds is that if you want them to live,since they have very high metabolisms the poison must be dealt with soon,if it progresses the birds chance of survival becomes less and less depending on the poison.You should explore the matter and see if what they are doing is legal.


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## flitsnowzoom (Mar 20, 2007)

*Maybe you do have some legal legs -- perhaps this will help*

It's a shame that they are poisoning the animals without first using the harrassing deterrents. 
I'm pasting some links in here that may help. 
The first is a link to a recent news story about a poisoning in one of the territories Nunavat where it is illegal to poison any animal (the birds were poisoned with avitrol)
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/north/story/2007/03/14/nu-ravens.html
This is a link provided by the gov. of Manitoba
http://www.gov.mb.ca/agriculture/foodsafety/processor/cfs02s17.html
and by clicking on their pest control link, here's the site that comes up:http://www.pestcontrolcanada.com/birds.htm
The other is a link to a major pest control company that operates in Manitoba.
http://www.nimby.ca/bird.htm
I have a feeling the only way you are going to get success with this is if you work with some environmental people and emphasize that any poison will make its way into the ground water and also poison other animals that either eat the dying "bad" birds or encounter the grain or washed off pesticides from the poison.
Last but not least, here is a link to the Manitoba govt's law and regs page. Maybe you can find something in here to help.
http://www.gov.mb.ca/chc/statpub/
Good luck.


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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi Draykie,

I also looked into this and made a number of call to Winnipeg. I think I finally spoke to the right person his name is Dustin Degagne, he is with Canadian Federal Wildlife Services (204) 984-4977. He needed more information such as location and address and so forth, but from what I can gather, as long as there is a chance of poisoning federally protected wildlife, they can't do this, and he is expecting your call.

I won't post on the charcoal now, but will do a post later on the information.

Ron


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## draykie (Dec 14, 2006)

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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Draykie, in one of the calls I made, on the way to reaching the right person, the Ministry of Conservation and Natural Resources I think (in all, I called 6 different offices), someone checked and told me that "wild" Pigeons were protected. I asked what the difference was between a "wild" Pigeon and the ones we see everyday was, wouldn't they all be "wild" and he agreed, they would.

Also. when I spoke to Dustin DeGagne, I only got as far as ducks and geese and he seemed ready to jump into action, so I hoping his office will indeed step in and halt this.

Please keep us updated.

Good luck,

Ron


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## littlestar (May 11, 2005)

Draykie, If you can ask around about the company that is putting the poision down, someone should know something about them. There are case where someone will hire a company without checking to see if they have a permit or find out what they are using. It happened up where I used to live and the pest company got in major trouble for killing pigeons, but song birds to. I would definitely call the Canadian Federal Wildlife Services and let them know what is going on.


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## Maggie-NC (Jun 22, 2005)

Ron, I don't mean to get mushy about this but you are just the best. Here's to hope for the pigeons in Winnepeg.


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## draykie (Dec 14, 2006)

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## draykie (Dec 14, 2006)

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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Hi Draykie,

I am sorry to hear the news is not as good as hoped. I guess you better prepare for poisoned birds. In the package I sent you sometime ago, there was a tube/syringe for tube feeding. You will need this to administer the activated charcoal to help bind up the poison they are going to use, most likely Avitrol.

You can purchase two things you will need at the health foods store. One is Activated charcoal such as this: http://tinyurl.com/rdora, and the other is Benonite Clay such as this: http://tinyurl.com/26uaq2 .

You can mix the two into a slurry using a little water and then administer 5cc and do this every few hours. 

I am late for an appointment, but you will be using the tube like you are feeding, except you will be giving the slurry instead. There are a number of links in the resource section on how to tube feed and others will help you with any questions as well.

Here is some additional information, it is not on Avitrol, but the same principles apply. http://tinyurl.com/2fjlyz



Ron


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## draykie (Dec 14, 2006)

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## JGregg (Jul 28, 2003)

Though hawks are generally bad for pigeons it sounds like your hawks may actually be good. I'd use them to try to get the attention of some local environmental groups to stop the poisoning. But, I don't know how feasible that is.

If you have mourning doves and bluejays in your area they'll also eat the poisoned seed. Poisoning native wildlife is a big no no here in the states, I don't know about Canada.


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## draykie (Dec 14, 2006)

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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

By law they have to stick around for a few days and collect the diseased birds.

Reti


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## draykie (Dec 14, 2006)

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## phyll (Mar 15, 2004)

Lady Tarheel said:


> Ron, I don't mean to get mushy about this but you are just the best. Here's to hope for the pigeons in Winnepeg.


Yes, Maggie, he truly is! 
Thank you, draykie & Ron, for trying to help. Please don't give up yet. What a terrible situation this is for those poor, poor birds.

Phyll


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## draykie (Dec 14, 2006)

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## draykie (Dec 14, 2006)

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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Draykie, I suppose you should in a way be preparing yourself to deal with a bird suffering from poisoning. It only stands to reason that the Orkin man has laid the poison bait and there will be birds that eat it. I have been doing a bit of reading and it seems there are different ratio levels they can employ the poison at. This way more birds will take the bait, as the poison is slower to work, this way not frightening other birds away from the bait, by a bird in a poisoning fit. You should also be keeping a close eye, as I am sure you are doing, for any protected species showing distress as to be able to call Dustin Degagne in.

Some signs you can look for are birds in obvious distress, showing such signs as paralysis, fits and spasms and fluid coming from their mouths. If you get a bird like this the best way to handle it would be to get whatever food is still in their crop out, by crop milking them, helping them evacuate the contents of their crop and then administering the charcoal and bentonite slurry, if you PM me I will give you instructions on how to crop milk a bird. If you find a bird with nothing in their crop and showing the obvious signs of poisoning, you should go ahead and start the slurry.

Ron


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## draykie (Dec 14, 2006)

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## jazaroo (Jan 1, 2006)

Well Draykie, I am wishing you are right and the birds continue in good health, but as the saying goes, lets hope for the best, but prepare for the worst (which I hope is never realized).

Good wishes,

Ron


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## docbjb (Apr 14, 2007)

Hi Draykie, I am having exactly the same issues that you are. I, too, live on the sixth floor of an apartment building, and the pest control people were here on Friday with poison they put on the roof.

There is a feral pigeon who has nested on my balcony and there are three eggs in the nest. Pij is still ok as of today (Sunday), but right now she is out flying and her mate is on the eggs (at least I think that's the way it works...does the mother sit on the eggs at night or is it the other way around?)

Anyway, I am feeding and watering them on my balcony, but I don't see any evidence that they are eating the seed I have put out  I don't see any signs of poisoning in my two birds, but I have noticed that the flock has decreased significantly since Friday. I only see four pigeons flying around now, where before we had at least thirty or forty.

Will a feral pigeon allow you to administer the slurry and empty its crop? I may have to do this but I have no idea how except for what is so kindly offered here. It will be a last resort but I am praying I don't have to do so.

Sad we are both in the same situation. Not only do they poison our feathered friends, but they tell us its "humane".


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## Reti (Jul 20, 2003)

Hi docbjb,
I was in the same situation three years ago, luckily only few of "my birds" got killed during the poisoning prosses, thanks to the awsome help of the members of this group. 
I had captured most of the birds, around 30, before they had put the poison out and shipped them across the country to members who released them in their areas.
Two, a mated couple, I captured the day of the poisoning and for the male it was too late, while the female went into convulsions after two hours I have had her and I rushed her to the vet, the male died at home. I did't think he was also poisoned. Silly me, I had to take them both to the vet.
Anyways, I had tried to administer the slurry as as soon as the bird went into seizures, but it was impossible for me to open her beak, her musles were in spasm, I was afraid I was going to break her beak.

The female sits on the eggs at night, the male switches with her at around 10am to 5pm.

Is there a possiblity you could take them and the eggs inside your apartment? I am concerned that eventually they will eat the poisoned food.
Reti


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## draykie (Dec 14, 2006)

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