# Gentle nuzzling?...More like hysterical cyclone!



## Ede-bird (Jul 7, 2010)

I am trying to get Cooter to drink water by gently guiding his nuzzling beak into a shot glass of water - I have tried at the beginning of feeding time, in the middle and at the end. No deal - he won't have anything to do with it. He always acts like he's starving, squeaking and wing flapping and nuzzling around my hands, even after putting away 45cc of formula and 20 or 30 peas and kernels of corn. I have been searching the site for hours looking for information on how much he should weigh and how fast he should gain weight, and so far all I have done is scare myself stupid over worms, canker, coccidiosis, salmonella, and accidental malnourishment from not feeding enough! I thought on Monday that he was 12-14 days old, but now I don't know - he is getting white fuzz down his back now, and the feather sheaths are starting to come off. I can feel his keel - it's not knife blade sharp or anything. I feel like I'm failing him, I would love to spent hours cuddling him, but that would be detrimental to the soft release we're hoping for wouldn't it?( and he has to stay in isolation - we have other birds) He just seems so hungry and frantic and lonely  Can anyone advise me on weight and weight gain and socializing with people...? Thanks


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Ede-bird, 


Water must be "tepid", close to his own body temperature or ours, or he will not drink.

Hold his Beak near or by it's root area, between the pads of your Thumb and index finger tips, and, gently guide it into the small Cup or Bowl of Tepid Water.

You can cuddle and hold him in 'Hand Nest' and so on all you like, and it will be fine.

Thought normally, in Nature, by this age, the Parents have as little to do with the 'Squeaker' as possible, since the Squeaker is typically, always, SO Wound-Up and assertive, their parents merely land, feed and water a.s.a.p., and clear out as fast as possible, to have some Peace and Quiet for themselves...since Squeakers tend to be inconsolably wound up and wishing to be fed even when stuffed to the gills already.


No harm if you wish to do more than that...but as he grows and develops, there are things you would do best to avoid, and we can go over that later.

BUT, if you intend a release, do begin now for finding and using, a suitable setting, a safe, serene, happy setting, where Wild Pigeons already graze and forrage safely.

Scatter Seed for them, and, set your Squeaker there with them, crouch down a few feet away and remain "still" and supervise.

He needs this, and he needs five or six such sessions at least, of fifteen or twenty minutes each, or your 'release' will fail.


This needs to be done now.

Once he is fledging/flying, such forays/sessions would have to cease...thus now and for a short time IS your only 'Window' for this...and, once fledging, one waits then for the youngster to be developed and independent and confident enough for release, then, releases them to that same very Flock and setting.

This is serious, earnest, important, and if you neglect it, or dismiss it as frivolous or un-necessary, there will be problems with no easy fix, later.


Phil
Lv


----------



## Ede-bird (Jul 7, 2010)

The water is tepid, and I will keep trying. I have only found one spot so far where I see a flock of ferals and that is beside the road and railway tracks where the grain cars unload - I'm looking for something safer- but if I have to I'll put out a couple of traffic cones to make vehicles veer off from that area ( until the cops chase me off anyway ) Thanks for the advice ( I will spend more time in the laundry room cuddling - I can read a book in there just as easy as anywhere) I want this to work out for the little fuzzy butt.


----------



## Ede-bird (Jul 7, 2010)

Any info on desired weight and weight gain??? 
Thanks, Maureen


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi Maureen,


Far as weight gain graphs or guides...far as how much to feed and how often...beats me.

I just do it and never have had a handle of how to describe to others on how much is enough, how much is too much, or what weight at what age.


Long as the Crop is passing, and the Formula is made right ( ie: Mixed, frozen, thawed, warmed in hot water - never microwave! - then adjusted for consistency to be about like Melted Ice Cream on a hot Day, make a good size Coffee Cup worth at a time, freeze between uses, that way it is absolutely properly well hydrated )...long as Crop is passing well, and poops are bountiful and good looking...one can keep the youngster topped-off more or less...but best is for formula meals AND real, whole, wholesome, small Seed Meals also.

Probably at that age I would feed four times a day, formula then Seed, to where by next Meal, his Crop is about half full or a little less.

I just do it as I go according to how things are going.


Plenty of good hydration is important for them, so, offering a drink every hour or two is ideal.

Crops usually, but not always, empty over-night...so morning meals, or any other meal, size of meal will defer to how much room they have going.

One does not want to overfill them...so this is a judgement matter hard to quanfity.


Do a medium Formula meal...on top of which, a Seed meal...and then have him drink a few times between meals.

"Perfect"


You can use your hand to feed Seeds.

Pretend your straightened parallel together fingers, with Thumb brought in al all finger tips are pinched together with the Thumb tip...pretend that is a Parent's Beak.

Seeds can be held then in the hollow...Hand comes in from above and in front...with your help for him to do it, youngster 'Nuzzles' his anxious probing Beak deeply into the place between all the brought-together finger tips, and he 'gobbles', and as he does so, the Seeds, roll by gravity, into his Beak and Mouth and he swallows them.

This works very well, and I do this all the time...and the Babys or 'Peepers' or 'Squeakers' Love it.



Have you had success in guiding his Beaak into a small deepish low container of small whole Seeds, for him to be 'gobbling'? ( Finger tip pads staying on his Beak to represent the 'feel' of his parent's Throat...)


Either method is fine...but the latter allows them to 'see' the Seeds, and thus, very soon, to also realize they wish to 'Peck' at them, leading to self feeding and successful Pecking long before they ever would have in Nature, where, Dad has to fly with them following, to show them their first to be seen Seeds.



If not, get back on it!!!


He needs honest to goodness Seeds and Grit, and, to be learning to peck..!


Phil
Lv


----------



## Ede-bird (Jul 7, 2010)

I have Budgie grit that someone gave me - Budgies and other hookbills don't need grit as they hull their seeds - I saved it to through out for the birds in winter. Can he have that?? I bought some pigeon/dove food today that has iodine and other vitamins and minerals in it , and I will be trying it out at his bedtime feeding. Thanks for the reassurance on the hysterical "I'M STARVING HERE!!!!!" behaviour - I have truly never seen anything like it!


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

That grit ought to be fine...probably it is Quarts.

Ideally, crushed fine of Oyster Shell would be the way to go, since it supplies a good Calcium source for nerves and muscles and bones as he grows.


I was still editing and adding to the prior post when you posted.


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Anyway, at this age, they get really Wound-Up...one can not even so much as look at them across a room, without them going into displys of enthusiastic anticipations of being all a twirl and 'Peeping' and flapping for chow time.

All of this is of course good and Naturally included exercise for their developing Wing and Leg muscles and so on.

More images of the little Harpy? Er, Angel?

( Lol...)


----------



## Ede-bird (Jul 7, 2010)

It's gravel with added oyster shell and charcoal, made by Hagen. I will offer the water more frequently than I have been and try to top off each feeding with a seed meal. He is such a love, we just have to learn together - with the help of great Mentors! Thank you


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

I might feed eight times a day, also, with smaller meals...kinda depends on my own day's schedule.


The littler they are, the smaller the meals, and the more often one feeds...and as they get bigger, it is more flexible.


----------



## pdpbison (Mar 15, 2005)

Yer welcome!

They are such a joy to raise and care for and watch them grow up.

It takes what it takes!

It is natural for there to be a 'Bond'.

The 'Bond' is the tacit and daily affirmed Emotional/Spiritual Contract between parent, or stand-in Parent, and Baby/Youngster...it is palpable, it is deep.


The youngster and the parent vitalize the Bond with their energy and attentions and communications/gestures.


As the youngster develops and grows and gains progress in independence, ability and confidence, the Bond or Contract reaches it's end for both parties, and, is permitted to dissolve in deference and proportion to the self confidence and emotional and logisitical independence the youngster is discovering, creating for himself, and enlarging.

This phase then, of letting it dissolve, is just as important as having let it be there was previously.

Cues and signs from the youngster guide the 'Parent', even as cues and signs from the parent, guide the youngster.

Once flying, and self feeding, parent feeds taper down...the end of childhood phase yields to the early of adulthood phase, and thus the childhood phase runs it's course to a successful completion, culminating in the then incipient sub adult being released to a World he is well prepared to manage and deal with.

Happy proud and satisfied Parent...

Happy Pround young debutant who leaves off the Parent even as they once left off the Egg Shell.

All is well...


----------

