# Walter



## Maggie (Feb 4, 2003)

First, Thank you all who replied,your comments help put me at ease.
Lets say I decide to keep Walter, will he be a caged ferel Pigeon? Does he get his wings clipped? Does he come out of the cage, and poop wherever he wants all over the house? Is it kinder to set him free? I DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO!!!
Also, while I'm on a roll, Walter doesn't walk around much he always falls on his face, and uses his beek to move around,(he does use his bigger than himself feet to climb into my hand-and when he is mad will stand up,wings out for a second) A water dish probably isn't a good idea until he can keep his head up. He is 12-13 weeks, is he okay, or could something be wrong. One more thing, using a standard eyedropper, How many CC's is that, shouldn't I have some idea how much he is eating? I'm going to get the seed this weekend and soak it, will this replace the baby bird food or use both? Am I driving anyone besides myself crazy yet?
Thank you sooo much
Mabey I should buy a book!!!


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

Hello,

I keep my feral pets free in a room, They have a food station set up and can sleep up on the door. I put some paper under to collect the poops too.

Pigeons make wonderful pets though, and I'm sure you won't regret it if you decide to keep him!








As for the feeding, Soaked seeds is just fine, you can mix abit of formula into it after you drain it from the water or just give it to him plain. Later on when he is about 15-17 days you should leave dry little seeds around and peck with your finger to teach him to eat on his own. 

Thats about it for now, Keep us posted!

Mary


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## fred2344 (Jan 9, 2002)

Maggie,
You have got to talk to us with more detail.
If Walter is falling over, it could be that he is weak from not enough food or that he is too young to stand up straight. He may be fluttering his wings in order to beg for food. 
It's too much to go into here but the crop, an internal pouch, is the resevoir for food. It starts just below the base of the neck and ends just where the breastbone begins.
You should know what a crop feels like when it is full and when it is empty. As you feed Walter, feel the crop and you should be able to sense when it is filling up. A properly fed baby should have a crop that feels like a golf ball but there is a danger of overfeeding. That can cause what is called crop stretch. The muscles of the crop can become stretched and become unable to fully empty all the food contents. That means trouble.
There are plastic feeding syringes available for syringing down liquid formula and there is a hand feeding technique for feeding solid foods. Some folks use gavaging which is placing a tube into the crop and syringing the formula down. I don't suggest it for you if you never did it before.
We don't even know what Walter is being fed. You haven't told us that and we need to know.
Walter is going to become unreleasable. When you have a baby that young, there is no way you can release him into the wild and expect him to survive when he will never learn foraging skills. By the time he is older, he will feel he is part of your family and may very well forget he is a pigeon.
A caged bird is an imprisoned bird. He can live in a cage but Walter would have to come out often and that raises the problem of keeping your home clean. You would have to go after the droppings and wash them up.
This is a very difficult situation that a lot of us find ourselves in all the time.
But, first things first. We have got to find out what you are feeding Walter, when and what. 
Walter is not in sunshine so he isn't producing Vitamin D that is so vital in producing calcium. Calcium supplements have to be balanced with Phosphorous supplements. That means he needs a vitamin and mineral supplement in his water or his young bones will remain too soft to develop properly. That may just be another reason why he is falling over.
I would go out and buy a small bag of Purina Puppy Chow, soak about 15 pieces to wet them, cut them in half and hand feed a half at a time. When the crop feels fairly full, stop to avoid crop stretch and let him digest it all. Give him a second feeding in twelve hours. This way, you will be able to feel the crop enlarging and get used to hand feeding solid food. After a few days, I would start him on seed only. Beware of unshelled sunflower seeds and dry roasted peanuts. At that age, they can't dissolve this stuff and could cause a fatal obstruction.
There is a lot to know and we don't have a starting point for you yet so please go into details. 
We may be able to get Walter to a pigeon person if you feel you can't take care of him proplerly and that is not intended to put you down in any way. If you are not sure about all of this, Walter could be raised with other pigeons and possibly be cooped for life. I'm sure you can raise Walter on your own with some advice from people on this list but be prepared to keep him because setting him free in about two months would probably result in his never reaching three months of age. So, as I said, this is a rough decision. Being responsible for a life entails a lot of hard choices.


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## fred2344 (Jan 9, 2002)

Maggie,
Keep posting on this thread so we get a flow of information going both ways.


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## Maggie (Feb 4, 2003)

Hello,
Wow! 
Okay, Walter is eating KT Handfeeding Formula, that the local bird store feeds to all of there baby birds. He eats when he screams about every 2to3 hours, and he sleeps thru the night. The bird store said the food is enriched with calcium. If he is not eating or pooping, he loves to be covered up in his make shift nest of soft towels(and a 25 watt red bulb) and he just sleeps. Does he need exercise? When he is up to eat, after, he wants to climb into your hand or shirt to cuddle up. Sunlight?
Not in this weather, and there is a draft by the windows. I bring him to work everyday, and sunlight is not readily available here either. When you hold his head up he will stand up for you, but only with support.
Maggie


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## Maggie (Feb 4, 2003)

P.S.
When I put my hand into the box to get him out he stands up all by himself! Could that just be adrenalin?
thanks 
Maggie


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

Hi again,

I think as long as the pigeon has some space to fly everything should be ok, I let my pigeons fly free in a room but you like you can put him in a cage at night.
As for sunlight, well all birds like that + bathing( Oh boy do my pijjies love baths!)
I would put a tub full of warm water out every few days and splash abit with your hand, that should get your Walter to take a dip.
Pigeons that don't get direct sun can't produce vitamin D3 so you will have to get a vitamin/ mineral supplement from a pet shop to put in the water.
You can also supply crushed egg shells as I do (I microwave them for 2 minutes then after cooling I put them in a bag and go over with a rolling pin to crush them).
A good pigeon mix would be great too, One that contains whole corn, Peas, safflower and other seeds.
Raw (NOT DRY ROASTED) Peanuts could make a nice treat, I have some that is in my mix already.
Here in Toronto I wasn't able to get a good pigeon mix so I went to Walmart and bought a Squirrel mix, It's great!








It Contains whole corn, safflower, milo, wheat, sunflower seeds. I add dry peas, millet and thristle seed and my pigeons love it.


Mary


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## fred2344 (Jan 9, 2002)

Hi Maggie,
KT is a good formula and you have a bird that has bonded with you already. You've got yourself a loyal, affectionate and very intelligent pet.
By the second week, the system of a pigeon needs solid food so you have to start to wean him off of liquid and slowly introduce solids. In another week, he should be off liquids altogether. While you are giving him the KT, don't syringe it down the center where the opening to the opening to the windpipe is. Syringe it down the left side or the right side depending if you are right or left handed.
You have to recognize what an empty crop, a half full crop, a 3/4 filled crop is. The only way you can do it is to put down wet Purina Puppy Chow. It's a wholesome food and will get the baby used to solids. The additional advantage is that it is a fast teacher of how the crop fills up. If you are willing to do it, feed the Chow one half piece at a time and continually feel the breast where the crop is. It will start to fill and you will actually be able to feel when it is filling up. You'll be able to feel when half the crop is full and the upper half is still empty. To avoid crop stretch, I would fill to 3/4 of the crop. That's plenty of food for one feeding.
Walter has to learn how to drink on his own. Take his head and push the beak into a cup of water for a second. He will probably not drink the first few times you do that but he'll learn fast. If he doesn't drink after a couple of seconds, take his beak out of the water so he can catch his breath and then do it again. He will get the message.
Please get him away from the area where you think he can get a chill. The temperature should be constant. You did great with the bulb. A 60 Watt bulb might give him more warmth. He isn't fully feathered by a long shot.
He doesn't need excercise now. When he is strong enough, he'll start to flap his wings to build the flying muscles up. He may even be doing that now. As he gets older, he will flap more strongly so that one of these days, you will see his feet leave the ground an inch or two. Eventually, this little guy will fly.
Please stay in touch. We'll all be there to see Walter grow.


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## fred2344 (Jan 9, 2002)

"When I put my hand into the box to get him out he stands up all by himself! Could that just be adrenalin?"
He's getting stronger every day, Maggie. He stands up out of excitement when he sees his mommy and to get some food. Baby pigeons will beg for food even if they aren't hungry. 
Maggie, I just read your first post over again. You wrote, "He is 12-13 weeks."
I hope you mean 12-13 days old because if he is really that age, he is fully feathered, should be flying and should definitely not falling over. If that is the case, something is very wrong. Does he have a lot of down {yellow pin feathers) on him? If he does, we are definitely not talking about a bird that is 12-13 weeks old.

[This message has been edited by fred2344 (edited February 05, 2003).]

[This message has been edited by fred2344 (edited February 05, 2003).]


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## Maggie (Feb 4, 2003)

Fred and all,
Thank you for putting my mind at ease, On the way home I will get puppy chow. We had a family meeting, and we are going to keep him.
(or her) I dont even know how to tell if Walter may be Walterina. I guess down the road when he goes for a check up I will find that out. We figured he can fly here at the shop, because thats were he will spend his days. Is it okay to drive him to work and home (10 minute ride) I warm the car up before we get in and he is quiet the whole way. I mean when he is older, the car is okay right?
Thanks 
Maggie


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## fred2344 (Jan 9, 2002)

Maggie,
Don't feel badly if Walter turns into a she. Some years ago, I helped place a pure white hen whose name was Walter. She had to be taken out of her original home because she was terrorizing the two cats and dog. Would you believe that the animals had to be put on tranquilizers because of a pigeon?
Taking him/her from the house to the shop and back is fine as long as the carrier is enclosed so there will be no sudden change in temperature. I think it's wonderful that you decided to adopt Walter. That is going to be one happy pigeon.


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## Maggie (Feb 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by fred2344:
> *"When I put my hand into the box to get him out he stands up all by himself! Could that just be adrenalin?"
> He's getting stronger every day, Maggie. He stands up out of excitement when he sees his mommy and to get some food. Baby pigeons will beg for food even if they aren't hungry.
> Maggie, I just read your first post over again. You wrote, "He is 12-13 weeks."
> ...


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

If you are going to take Walter in the car keep an eye on him, My previous beloved pet Tooty (Who sadly passed away) got car sick everytime I took him in the car, he vomitted, you will notice it as they shake their heads and some seed may be brought up... I'm SO HAPPY that you keeping Walter!








I'm sure you won't regret it, Pigeons make wonderful pets and he will bring so much joy to your family









Keep us posted!









Mary

p.s If you can take pictures I'm sure we would all love to see Walter


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## Emily (Jan 8, 2003)

Hello Maggie,

That is great to hear you have decided to keep Walter!!! I was in a situation similar to yours about three months ago and decided to keep my baby Ernie. I am so happy with the decision! He is great company, has an excellent personality, and is a lot of fun to have around. Pigeons do the silliest things! You will be amazed at all the household things they find interesting (on that note, be careful what you leave out once Walter starts to explore and fly!!!)

Good luck and enjoy him while he is a baby, because they sure grow up fast!

Emily (& Ernie - who is sitting on my shoulder staring at the computer screen)


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## Maggie (Feb 4, 2003)

Walter had puppy chow last night!! I soaked them and cut it up. What a pig, he loved it! Stuck his head in the water as told, and second time he drank! Walter got a little excited and stuck his whole head in, it was funny. He slept on Dads chest till his poop cry,did his duty, and off to bed he went. He didn't make the 12 hour span that I hoped but he ate again this morning, It was harder this time he is all over the place. Seed to start this weekend. Will take pictures with the digital camera, and send along.
Thanks again all
Maggie


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## Maggie (Feb 4, 2003)

Me Again!
How the heck will I get the tiny bird seed into his mouth? Putting the puppy chow in is hard. He puts his head all the way down and then opens his beek.
Thanks 
Maggie


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

Umm.. You don't put seed by seed in but you just open his mouth put a bunch in and he will swallow, I raised many babies with this technique and it works great! Never tried the dog for thingy though.

I had some pretty naughty squeakers but I managed to feed them all using the bird seed.

Mary



> Originally posted by Maggie:
> *Me Again!
> How the heck will I get the tiny bird seed into his mouth? Putting the puppy chow in is hard. He puts his head all the way down and then opens his beek.
> Thanks
> Maggie*


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## re lee (Jan 4, 2003)

You will find if you get a catheter syringe at a drug store 30 to 60 cc and then get some chicken pellets put them in a bowl with a little water warm then in a micowave for about a minute they should be slightly soupy after stired this is a very easy way to feed the young birds. put end of the catheter syringe down to the back of the throught. and inject the feed . BE sure you have let it cool to a warm state. Its fast and easy And then your done. Do not over fill the crop


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