# Urgent help...baby pigeons without a mother



## animallover07

Hi. 

About 3 days ago I looked out into my terrace/balcony and saw two birds resting in the corner. Since I saw feathers and sticks, black dirt, and mess in the area they were in, I figured that they were either sick or were baby pigeons. I've come to the conclusion that they're baby pigeons since they are smaller than the other birds and have not flown since I've discovered them. So far there have been no signs of their parents, I think they're parents abandoned them. It's been three days already. They do not look like chicks, they have feathers, and are slightly bigger than newborn birds. I've seen them flap their wings but no progress with flying. 

I've seen them scratch themselves a couple of times since there are a few bugs crawling on them. There is a dark feathered large bird that keeps coming to their nest, and the two baby pigeons start making noises, and I had to scare the dark feathered bird away as it was fighting them. One of the baby pigeons is slightly larger than the other one, and it protects the smaller one whenever the dark feathered or other strange birds come to its nest. I've put small pieces of doughnuts out on the terrace, but the they won't eat it, they eat other small objects, and just a few minutes ago I've put a water bowl near their nest. When I got to close to them, they seem frightened and backed away.

I am really confused, since I have no experience with taking care of birds, but it doesn't feel right to just left them there to die or be killed by other larger birds. Can someone please help me, give me advice, since I cannot take them to the vet until the next few days?


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## Lovebirds

Can you tell us where you are in case these babies need intervention? Is the dark colored bird a pigeon also? I don't suppose you could post a picture of the babies? They sound almost grown. The parent birds do not stay with babies this age 24/7. They mostly come and feed them a few times a day and then stay gone. So, the fact that you don't see the parents isn't THAT strange. Are you home watching for the parents or are you gone? It may be that you are just missing the feedings. Also, pigeons eat seeds. Wild bird seed would be fine if these little ones can eat by themselves. Other pigeons and birds like crows and ravens and even a hawk, can beat up these babies or kill them if they are where they can be spotted from the air. That's why I'm wondering what kind of bird this dark feathered bird is.


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## animallover07

*Reply*

I am home watching the pigeons. The dark feathered bird looks like a pigeon, he looks kinda dirty and the feathers on his head are sticking up. I've been watching these guys for the past 3 or 4 days, they looked smaller than the other pigeons I usually see. and one of them has a few yellow or white feathers, I think it's younger than the other one. I'll post a picture of them.


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## Lovebirds

Forgive me if you already know this...........but someone who's not familiar with pigeons could possibly mistake the babies being fed as as "act of violence".... .......the babies flap their wings and carry on something terrible begging to be fed and of course the parent can only feed one at a time, so is it possible that they are being fed by this dark bird? Maybe he's the daddy? Is sounds like, from you description, that these babies are pretty old, say two weeks, and Mom is possibly on a new nest of eggs now, so that leaves Dad with the responsibility of these two.


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## animallover07

*hi*

no. I doubt they are being fed by the dark bird. I think they are scared of him, he has no food, and he is only coming to their nest because there is food there and a bowl of water.


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## Lovebirds

Well, then, let's put it this way. If you are sure the babies parents are not coming to feed them and it's been 3 days, these babies should be very close to dead. Three days is a long time to go without food for any pigeon and a baby,.......well, that ain't good. So, there's only two choices here really. Either you need to bring the babies in and finish raising them, or they will just starve to death out on your balcony. Sorry to be blunt, but that's the scenario as I see it. Why don't you go ahead and post pictures and let's see what kind of shape these babies are in and then figure this out.


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## Charis

I suspect that the dark bird you are seeing is the dad.

If you could, though, feel right under the babies throat and let us know if there is a bulge. If so, that would indicate the babies are being fed. Also look around the nest for fresh looking poop. That would be another good indication of an attentive dad.

Pictures at this point would be very helpful.


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## Feefo

> I think they are scared of him, he has no food


I agree that the dark coloured bird is very probably the parent. The parent pigeons don't carry food in their mouths to the babies, they pump up what they have in their crops. The babies put their beaks inside the parents' beaks to be fed,

That squeaking is probably not fear but hunger, when the little ones see their parents they start to squeal and flutter in order to get fed.

Both adults feed the young and they wouldn't abandon their nest. The only circumstances in which both parents would disappear is if they have been killed at the same time.

Cynthia


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## animallover07

Here are some pictures of them.


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## animallover07

*Hi*

Well the dark coloured bird has been gone for a while since I scared him away. I thought he was trying to kill them, since it looked as though they were fighting. but the birds have pooped everyday so far


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## Charis

They look good to me.

Did you try feeling below the throat for a bulge?

I think its the dad feeding them. Keep an eye out and try to get a picture of the dark bird you see. 

Thank you for your diligence and kind heart.


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## Pidgey

You might try going through these search results to see if it looks similar:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=feeding+baby+pigeon&search=Search

Pidgey


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## animallover07

Your welcome. When the dads feed their babies, do they usually bite them or bite their necks?


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## Charis

NO, They don't bite their necks. When adult pigeons do peck youg birds, the young ones are often scalped or at the least turned into a bloody mess. Are you seeing anything like that?


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## animallover07

It is hard to tell. when the dark coloured bird comes around, the baby pigeons start flapping their wings so it's hard to tell what their doing. but the dark coloured bird has not come back in a while. I have seen him around here everyday though. and recently, an adult pigeon, with normal color, came to my terrace, and was biting one of the birds beaks. I was alarmed so I opened the door and the adult pigeon flew away. Do you think that could've been the mother? 

Also, can pigeons eat worms?


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## Charis

Pigeons don't eat worms. 
I think it's the parents you are seeing.


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## animallover07

So is seeds the only food they eat? Or can they eat other things?


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## Pidgey

Pretty much. They don't eat bugs, worms or anything like that. 

Actually, it does often look like the parents are biting the young ones when they're feeding them. Sometimes they prod them with their beaks and the young ones literally stick their beaks into the parents' beaks and eat food regurgitated into the back of the parents' throats. It's kind of a weird-looking performance--you'd think that the parent is eating the little guy.

Pidgey


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## Becca199212

They can eat other things but seed will do.


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## animallover07

what other things can they eat besides seeds?


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## Charis

Because of their age, these babies have not learned to eat on their own so, If you were to give them seeds, they wouldn't know what to do with them.


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## Pidgey

Park pigeons have been known to eat bread, puppy chow, cat food (pelleted) and other things that people throw to them. City birds often get used to eating things that they shouldn't be. Sometimes, they eat something to their own doom (it makes them sick or kills them) like french fries or roasted peanuts. Worms often carry parasites like liver flukes that can kill birds. So do slugs. Cockroaches can carry some pretty evil stuff, too. Bugs are very often very bad, except for the birds who are specifically geared to eat them.

Pidgey


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## wildlife-rehab

if i were you, i would just keep watching to see a parent comes back to feed them. if they are going to the toilet tho they are eating something.

if they are not getting fed by a parent then u will need to get them and feed them yourself by hand as they will not no how to eat, if you havnt got any seed then u can feed them on soaked dog biscuits which is what i find they do really well on, or for a short while soaked bread.

good luck!


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## animallover07

thanks. I'll try that. Can they eat sunflower seeds?


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## wildlife-rehab

not reaallly, but a few wont do anything

but they dont look old enough to be eating on there own therefore if you put the seeds down they will not no what to do, as they dont yet see food as food so they wont eat them.
but please dont move them until your definatly sure they have been abandoned


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## Feefo

> an adult pigeon, with normal color, came to my terrace, and was biting one of the birds beaks


That sounds like a parent pigeon feeding its babies.

Frightened baby pigeons don't squeak and flap their wings. They try to make themselves loook as big and threatening as possible by rising up.

Don't feed them sunflower seeds, adult pigeons eat them but they are not good for babies. Canary seed would be better. But I am convinced that the parents are feeding them and that it is the parents that you are chasing off.

Cynthia


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## wildlife-rehab

yeah i agree, the pigeons will puff their chests up if they are scared.
i think you are scaring away mum and dad
have a look on the internet and see if you can find a video of babies being fed by their parents, at least then you will be able to compare them.

but i think they are being fed as they are going to the loo, if they havnt been fed in 3 days they would have no waste to pass threw

keep us updated!


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## Feefo

> have a look on the internet and see if you can find a video of babies being fed by their parents, at least then you will be able to compare them.


I know that there was a link to a video on this forum recently, but can't remember where!

Can someone with a younger memory trace it?

Cynthia


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## animallover07

Is there a website that explains how to handle baby pigeons? since I want to hand feed them, but will it be that easy?


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## wildlife-rehab

im going to have a look now for a video

please do not move them yet

at that age they are really easy to rear i find, and if you feel that that is the only option now im sure everyone will help you out.

hold on!


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## wildlife-rehab

if there is not enough room for the parents to sit,they will hover over the babies to try and feed them, so this may look like they are being attacked, i think if they were getting attacked by another bird then they will of been taken by now when you went there and killed. most birds that eat young birds look totally differnt in shape colour and size so im sure u would no if it wasnt a pigeon.

this is tricky for you!
let us no when u have watched the video


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## Lovebirds

Here's another one with older babies................


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7507ZFm6lw


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## animallover07

thank you guys. You're all to helpful. The darker colored bird came back and I think he fed them, since they were holding eachother's beaks. but thanks. I'll try my best to keep them alive.


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## Charis

The best part is that you may need to do nothing but watch and enjoy the show.


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## Feefo

Thanks for the update! I am so glad that they are being fed.

here is another video of a pigeon feeding its fledged baby!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEfDDeKLb5A&NR=1

Cynthia


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## Maggie-NC

I'm not sure if this is the right place to put this but in the first link wildlife-rehab posted there are a number of other videos showing pigeons. One of them shows a few days old baby pigeon that had been placed in an aquarium with tarantulas for them to feed on it. I find this utterly reprehensible and wanted to know is there any way we can get Youtube to remove it. Why they would allow something like this I'll never understand.

I apologize for inserting this into this thread but it really disturbed me.


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## Lovebirds

Lady Tarheel said:


> I'm not sure if this is the right place to put this but in the first link wildlife-rehab posted there are a number of other videos showing pigeons. One of them shows a few days old baby pigeon that had been placed in an aquarium with tarantulas for them to feed on it. I find this utterly reprehensible and wanted to know is there any way we can get Youtube to remove it. Why they would allow something like this I'll never understand.
> 
> I apologize for inserting this into this thread but it really disturbed me.


I saw that too.......... I'm a member of YouTube, so I could try contacting them and see about having it removed. I know it's disturbing.........it just made me cringe, but in actuality, it's just someone feeding an animal I guess. Don't know anything about tarantula's and frankly don't care to, so don't know if this is a cruel joke or if this is something that goes on regularly. I mean people feed snakes live mice and I think that's horrible, but it's done everyday by people who like snakes confused: ) as much as we like pigeons. Not sure that it has to be made into a video though. Pretty sick I think. I'll check it out.........


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## Lovebirds

Maggie, I don't think they will remove it. Believe me, you don't want to know what else is on YouTube.......as horrible as these videos are, and there are LOTS of them with snakes and spiders, BIG snakes and BIG spiders eating all sort of little defenseless animals. I'm about to loose my dinner. BUT.........there are tons of videos on there like this one and YouTube isn't going to remove them all and they aren't going to remove one just because its got a baby pigeon and it offends pigeon people. 
If someone else wants to give it a try (getting it removed) go ahead. I think you'll be wasting your time though. 
Snakes and spiders got to eat too I guess..........not sure why, cause I'm not a fan of either one, big or small, but that's just me.


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## wildlife-rehab

oh god!
i didnt see that
thats horrible
if we all message them they might take it down?
sorry for revealing that! i didnt look at the others

people can be so cruel


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## wildlife-rehab

its against the law now to feed live food to animals, apart from insects so that is somebody litterly being cruel.


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## Pidgey

They could be anywhere in the world so maybe the laws don't apply wherever they are.

Pidgey


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## wildlife-rehab

ahhh! good point :]


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## Skyeking

wildlife-rehab,

Could you remove the link for now.... if the author of the thread has seen the video of the baby being fed?

Perhaps another one can be used to serve the purpose for now.

Thank you


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## Maggie-NC

Many thanks to all of you for responding. The person who made the video had UK in front of their name so I'm assuming they live in the UK. I know stuff like this goes on but, honestly, I don't want to see it. I will have that baby's face in my memory for a long time.

I keep live mealworms on hand all the time for the occasional wild songbird we may find that needs help before I can get it to our rehabber, or for our outside blue birds. I guess there's not any difference in my feeding them to birds than people feeding live mice to snakes but I don't put it on Youtube. 

And, wildlife-rehab, don't worry about your posting that link. I look at the pigeon videos from time to time and could just as easily have found it that way.

Animallover07, again I apologize for intruding on your thread.


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## wildlife-rehab

i didnt even know it was on there
ive removed the link!


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## Becca199212

Why would you do such a thing!
Why record it, and why do it in the first place?
You can clik on flag as inapropiate, I don't know if it actually does anything but it's wortha try, they mightremove it if all of us clik it.


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## Feefo

> Many thanks to all of you for responding. The person who made the video had UK in front of their name so I'm assuming they live in the UK


. 

I am glad I didn't see it, I am crying as it is. If someone could repost the link then we UK members can each report it to the RSPCA, contact the papers and kick up a stink. 

It's OK, I have found it.

Cynthia


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## Feefo

I telephoned the RSPCA, they gave me their headquarters number to telephone. I am about to do that, I hope others will too. It is an 0870 number, probably costs 8p a minute. ) 0870 3335 999

THey also told me that my service provider might be able to trace the video. I don't just want that video removed, I want the person responsible prosecuted!

I also e-mailed the Wildlife Crime Unit.

Cynthia


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## Feefo

I got through to the RSPCA and they said that legislation does not specifically forbid the feeding of live vertebrates to captive animals. I wish I could remember what legislation I had read that in, it was such a comfort to me!

They also said that the person that submitted the video need not have been the person that took it. But they will do what they can.

I found their policy on this and it states:



> 5.2.2
> The RSPCA is opposed to the feeding of live vertebrate prey to captive animals...The feeding of live prey *may* be viewed as illegal under the provisions of the Protection of Animals Act 1911.


So not as straightforward as I had hoped. But what horrible people we share this world with. 

Cynthia


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## Skyeking

Thank you Cynthia for taking action on this, and to all our members who also will call and complain.

Thank you for removing the link, wildlife-rehab, we know you didn't do this intentionally.


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## Fever

I hope that it gets taken down, but to be honest, I've seen some pretty horrific things on YouTube. After seeing a video where a lionness and a bear in a Korean zoo were forced to fight to see which would win, I never went back to that site. 

I used to keep pet rats, and I'd buy them for a discount by saying they were feeder rats, not pets.

I can't come up with a good argument why this bird shouldn't have been fed to the spider (the tarantula does need to eat), but there's no need to turn it into entertainment.


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## Pisciottano

Hello Animallover07,
What about the little ones being fed by dad? Is everything allright now? I've followed this thread with great interest. Would love an update. Many thanks, Gladys


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## animallover07

The mother and the father come by everyday to feed it. The smaller baby pigeon is becoming larger. But how long will it take for the babies to learn how to fly?


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## jdjd

****I cannot believe this!!!*

I am in shock who would put a video of a snake or anything eating a helpless animal and I find this not funny at all as someones attempt as a sick joke!!!


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## jdjd

*Great news though animal lover*

Thats great that you think the parents are comming back and feeding! Hope everything goes well


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## animallover07

*hi*

hi guys. The babies are doing well. They've grown a bit larger and one of them are starting to fly a bit. But anyway, 2 days ago another bird, kind of their size and looked like a juvenille to, flew to their nest and won't go away. It seems to get along with them very well and I think it flew from my neighbor's terrace. When I approached it it flew away back to it's own nest somewhere but eventually came back. It looks more developed than the two I already had, and it's also looks their size, and it is also fed by their parents. Do you think that it could be their brother or sister?


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## Lovebirds

animallover07 said:


> hi guys. The babies are doing well. They've grown a bit larger and one of them are starting to fly a bit. But anyway, 2 days ago another bird, kind of their size and looked like a juvenille to, flew to their nest and won't go away. It seems to get along with them very well and I think it flew from my neighbor's terrace. When I approached it it flew away back to it's own nest somewhere but eventually came back. It looks more developed than the two I already had, and it's also looks their size, and it is also fed by their parents. Do you think that it could be their brother or sister?


No, it's not a brother/sister. If your birds have a brother and/or sister somewhere, they wouldn't be the same age. This is probably another youngster who's beginning to explore outside of it's nest and found this one by mistake and likes it there. It's ok as long as the parents of your birds don't hurt it. Sometimes parent birds will feed another youngster with no problem, but sometime they view it as an intruder and will peck it, so I would keep an eye on this little visitor.


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## animallover07

*hi*

ok well the birds have flown away. The bigger one flew away first with the stranger bird and the younger one just flew away yesterday. They're gone now but sometimes they return to visit then leave


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## Feefo

I am so glad that all enede well for these babies!

Cynthia


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## Feefo

Back to the tarantula videos (there is a part 2). Even though it may be regarded as a waste of time I think it is always important to express an objection to cruelty. It may not have an immediate effect but it could have a cummulative effect over the years. Tarantulas need to eat, but they can eat insects. The baby pigeon was offered as food because it was aware and it is that awareness that the person that took the video and/or posted it considered enjoyable.

I found the reference about the legality of offering live prey. It was in Les Stocker's book and it said "It is illegal in this country to offer live vertebrate prey to birds and mammals in captivity"...the implication is that they can be offered to other animals, but even the RSPCA's policies are against this practice.

So, if anyone wants to stand up and be counted, go to youtube and flag that video and any other video involving a frightened animal being offered as live prey as inappropriate.

Cynthia


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## Fever

*Flagged*

I went in and flagged those (and gave them bad ratings). Sad thing is, I came up with a ton of vids about tarantulas eating mice. I wonder if there's a mouse-talk forum, and what their take is on this. Sadly, it seems almost commonlpace for mice and rats to get this kind of treatment. Either way, I agree 100% with what cyro said about awareness. And adding the music to it was just vile.


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## Feefo

> I wonder if there's a mouse-talk forum, and what their take is on this. Sadly, it seems almost commonlpace for mice and rats to get this kind of treatment


There isn't much, other than pet mice and rats (I did a search about a year ago) The tragic thing, particularly about rats, is that they are recognised as being of superior intelligence which to me implies a higher level of awareness and of suffering .

Cynthia


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