# Resistant Canker



## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Has anyone run into resistant strains of canker? Back in April, I treated my six birds with 5 days of Ronidazole. Several of the birds gave evidence of having substantial internal canker (either coughing up a glob of canker or becoming very ill from secondary bacterial infection on the canker sores after they fell off).

Recently, I noticed several birds sneezing again. I wanted to stay ahead of this and not let the canker get so advanced, so I started 10 days of Metronidazole (250 mg tab dissolved in 4 ounces of water, 1cc per bird twice daily). Today was day 9, and this afternoon I noticed a yellow spot on the tip of Piper's tongue!

This spot had previously appeared just after I started the Ronidazole. It was accidently knocked off as I was finishing that med, and seemed to heal. It reappeared the second day of Metronidazole, then was gone the next day...but now it's back!

None of the other birds seem to show any evidence of a problem. Is this resistant canker, or something else entirely? Any suggestions or ideas would be appreciated! (Why does this seem to happen most just when the vet is closed for a long weekend!!!) Thanks!

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Terri B


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi Terri,

Yes, I have (should say had) two juvenile pigeons with horrific cases of canker. One came in with a badly broken leg and canker .. the leg was set and healed up well, and the canker seemed to have been cleared up with Spartrix. Sadly, the canker in this bird came back after about three weeks with a vengeance. I switched to Flagyl but lost this precious youngster a couple of days ago.

The second one arrived with canker stuff literally coming out the ears .. I've never seen anything quite like this. This one also cannot fully open the beak because of all the canker growths inside. It also was switched from Spartrix to Flagyl, and is still amongst the living. The oozing of the canker from the ears is lessening, and I am having an easier time of getting the feeding tube in .. hopefully we are on the path to recovery with this one.

Don't know about your yellow spots .. perhaps it was just pieces of "displaced" canker growth. Best of luck with your canker babies .. it is a terrible thing to watch it take a life in spite of doing everything you can.

Terry


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## Pigeonpal2002 (Jul 27, 2002)

Hi Terri, 

You are doing right by changing the medication. Any virus/bacteria can become resiliant to certain meds and they should be rotated. You should see if you can get carnidizole (spartrix), the dosages are much less intensive and maybe something you haven't tried before. 1 tablet a day for 3 days is the dosage. They are readily available at the major pigeons houses in the USA. With all medications, be it for wormers, coccidiostats, or canker, they need to be rotated in order in ensure future strains will not become resistant. 


Brad

[This message has been edited by Pigeonpal2002 (edited May 30, 2004).]


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## Nooti (Mar 14, 2002)

Hi Terry
Can you keep the metronidazole up for another 7 days. Trich is very stubborn and to treat properly it needs a long course. 14 days is recommended - more if evidence of the parasite is still around. I use metronidazole - treat for 14 days and have never had a recurrance.


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

Thank you all for the replies! I will continue the metronidazole for another 7 days and will order some different meds to alternate.

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Terri B


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## TAWhatley (Mar 6, 2001)

Hi all and thank you for the info. 

I do have Spartrix, but it wasn't getting the canker in either of my two birds. The Flagyl seems to be working in the survivor, and I will keep it up for the full 14 day course. I am also dosing at the high end.

Terry


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## dano7 (Feb 10, 2004)

In any canker-control program, it is often best to rotate between at least two of these medications in order to decrease the chance of a resistant trichomonad strain developing. Currently, ronidazole-based preparations (Turbosole-Siegels) are used as the primary treatment because of their effectiveness and wide safety margin, but it is a good idea to swap to one of the other available drugs every third or fourth treatment


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## Christina Coughlin (Dec 29, 2002)

Are you sure it is canker this time? It is one of those things that if you see it once you know it every time as I had to face that with a Budgie I bought. Anyway, vitamin A defficiancy can cause the same signs, white spots on tounge, in throat, coughing up stuff all the same symptoms and signs. The medication you used the first time can mess up the vitamin levels in the body. 

Ask your vet what he/she thinks about the chance of this being something other than canker this time. Vitamin A defficiancy is most offen seen in parrots but I have seen it in the others too!

Just a thought...


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

I need to get more Metronidazole, so I'll check with the vet regarding a possible Vitaming A deficiency. Thanks!

The yellow spot on his tongue has appeared and disappeared after a day or so several times while on the first 10 days of treatment. Is this typical of canker or vitamin deficiency?

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Terri B


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## dano7 (Feb 10, 2004)

I'm curious why you are looking for Metronidazole since it can cause nervous system damage and death if the dose is too high - and you are in a situation where you obviously can't dose too low. 

I'll say it again, Ronizadol is more effective with very high margins of safety. Currently the medication of choice for canker. But hey, it's your birds so good luck with whatever you do.


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## TerriB (Nov 16, 2003)

I appreciate the concern over using Metronidazole. I did initially use Ronidazole, because of the high margin of safety. However, three of my birds had reactions (vomited up the tablet) and the canker returned. A second, longer course of Ronidazole had the same result.

My veterinarian consulted with another vet (who routinely treats a large number of pigeons) and recommended Metronidazole - a 250 mg tablet dissolved in 4 ounces of water. I have been giving each bird 1cc of this solution twice a day. I had enough meds for 10 days, but Helen suggested going to 14 days so I needed one more tablet. Today was day 14 - hopefully, this did the trick.

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Terri B


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## maryco (Apr 1, 2002)

I think vomitting up canker pills is normal, it should be given on an empty stomach.

Most birds that I give a spartrix pill start to vomit soon after so I make sure they don't eat at that time.

Mary


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